FOn R2LEA3Z AFTEl"!. 12 HOOlJ SUHDA~l, F2BI:.UAr~~l 2, 1 S .) I;.
Follm:ving is ·;:i1e te:;:·;: of ;:Your Senators' Report, '; a p1:ogram done jointly by Senato~ Joseph s . Clarl~ (G.Pa.) and Senator· Hugh Scott (R.Ea) for broadcast on· 15 television and 38 radio stations in Pennsylvania.
GUZST: Hubc~t IL Humphrey Senator from Linnesota
Al-TITJUNC2r:. : Your Senators 1 P.eport . From the Nati on' n Capitol ue pre nent: anot ~1. er r..eport to tl1e People o f: Pennsjlvan:tn. This uniqu~ m·JaJ:d \"i:'.nni ng s er·· es o2 pro;;J.:ams, done i n the puolic se1:vi ce , i s b1:ought to 1 you by SenatoJ: Joseph S. Cla::l~ , Democra·i::, and Senator Lug 1 Scott, :'~epub l::.c.:: n . To open today ' s pror;:car.1 , here i n Sena tor Cla-:cl~.
C IAr..I ~ : Thi s i s our last p.:o::;ram ~or 19Gl{. . Just as -~ n 1962, "t"Je ~1e~e o f~ the air by reason o f tile regulations oi the broadcasting companies because I 't·Jas runnin::; ZOi: ::eelecti on :i:ot· 3enate; t:d s year \-7e ar e off the a :::.1: a~ter this shou be cause Senato:: Scott i s a candidate :Cor re election. -1e "'u otl re:::;1:ct this neccnsity but ,;vc un ~c::st and i t. Our guest on t his , om: lest p ~o:;ram, is a £aoil:.!.ar ..::igu1:e to all of our listener a. He 's the 3cnio:: 3enator from l.iinne sota and Democrati c T;TI1.ip, au bert II. Iluroph1: ey, a strong suppol.- ter oE 2ixst the l~e nn edy and nor.,-7 the Johnson Aciru::.ni stL:c:ri::ion . l-luLe.:t, I'm goinz to t lu:o\·J t he ~irst questi on to you , 1ihat do you i.1ope and p::-ay t hat ue Democrat s are go :'..n3 to be at)le to accompli sh in t he v:..nly o ::: major legi slati on i n this, t he s econd session o f: the CDth Cone;;::ce sn? r:Ui-iPIIREY : ~ ·Jell , first o :2 all, Senator Clarl~ and I' 11 speal: o:2 you a;:::ect ..:.. onatel:: as Joe :~:: ou hel.'B on out --
3COTT: And call me Hu::;h .
I-IUl-:iPHRZY : I' 11 call you Hugh. I 't•Jas 3oing to get m..-ound to you very shortly. I Eind myself in the position of beinr; on the final progran. I ~ope that thi s isn't because I'm on it. I t r ust that it's only be cause of t'1e rulen of the Federal Communications Commission and I noti ce, Joe, t i.1a t: you ree:;retted the c i-rcumsta.nces \Jhich necessitated t hin concludi nz pro.:;ram, oainly the reelection campaign of Senator 1 ~cott . lTou, I m sure that \·78 have to go throu3h these t hin3s, having the reelection campaigns.
CLArrY: Nou tal'e it easy. There a::e lots of people who are 3laci the s ~1 ou i s over!
1-lUiiPll>~EY: Can't I r.;et on to that quest:.on nou?
SCOTT: I \·mnt you to but just because tl e r ecord needs to be b~pt cleal:' and straight.... On the last program be:Zore Senator Cla rl ~ became a cand ~ date for reelection, on Feb1:uarl l:-, ' 02, he sai d -- and ue find no qual:'rel ~· 1 i th this, either of us, I am su:ce -- he said, 1;1 l:'ezret very much, may I say to ou1: l istenel:'s, that thi s i s the last joint s:1.ou t hat Senato~ Scott anci I "t>li ll participate in. He both hope t hat :f certain events happen toHard the end of this yea1: anci I retm:n to the Senate, w·e ' 11 start them again in 1953. 11 And I said that "t·lhile I'd do my part tc elect a Republican Senator that if he's elected I'd be happy to be on the shou \·7ith him. 8o this is ••••
(UORE) - 2 -
Hffi·i?I::.:.E"! : I'm su~. .- e t l.ds is reciprocated.
GCOTT : Thin is the [ec l in~ that both o:': us have .
CLiu:.I ~ : T!.1 is cloec not moan that I "t·Jill no·i.: really ea·;: my l1em:t out to "Jeat :tim next i"iovcmb~-.:.
HtJI.I?I:P-2Y: Hell, I s _;e \Jc 1 re o=:z to a 3ooG. stm..··i: so I' 11 at·::cnpt to ::esponcl to tl.1e question that you placed to rae, Joe. Of coui.:'se, the p ~:og~an1 in the seconC: nession o2 the 03th Con3:cess is "t·Jell-l:nm·m by both o:: you able 8enato1: n: the Ta:{ Bill in top pr::..ority ri2;ht a ·i: this time. Th::.s b::..ll in very much needed and I thinl: it "t1ill :)e a great help to ou~ economy . Then the broad, con.1p~chcnsive Civ:;.. l r. .:.ghts pi:o s-;:am that "t'7ill cor.ae to UG ::rom tL.e :-Iouoc of r..cpresentct:~ vea anc! I am sui.:'e '\·1:::.11 be enacted by the Senate. The H.o::::pital and ih.t~s ~. i.1[; Ilomc pro:::;:i:am under Social 3ecuJ:::.ty, commonly i.:'e:':er::ed to as HedicaJ:e; ti1i s is on the !?r:l.ority list. The passa::;e of the Iouth Employnent Opportun ities !:..ct, uh·' ch :i'.. ncludes ·~:he Youth Conservation Corps pro0:.:am and the I-Iomet o"t·m Youth Corps. The national Se<:vice Corps i\.c';;., ·ohich \ -J.:'.. G our Doment:!..c Peace Co~ps, so to speal~. Then t his broad p~o s::am o:Z an at t:acl: on poverty: the pove"l:'t] or economi c troub le; tl e pov:.: rty that cor.les from illiteracy . -- in otllel:" "tvords, an attacl~ upon t he problems o:;: ill:.!.teracy and up::;::ac1i..n~ ou:i..· education. And ti.1en t::.cr:e u i ll surely be t~1esc :r:egional pt'00::..:·ams such as Appalachia, ~Jhich you 3cn-::lcraen a-zoe so :i..nvolvcd .::. n, anc} 1 i.wpe l7C have one :~ or t i.1. c upper G!:eat Lab~s area as vJell. Anc1 then a pro3rnm in the ;.:icld o.( l ~o us::.n g , m:oa.n re neual anC: dev(~lopment "tt7:L ll be h i 3h on t LG ascnda. TI.egular appropria tion bill, "~;"lith e~;:pancccl hospital and nuroing t:wme construction; hous in;j ~or the clc~m: ly -- anC: I trust that ue' 11 ~o mu c~1 more in that than ue 1 ve clone, :;ven ti.10UGh o:;·7e' ve l1ad a 0oocl staxt. Then ou!:' pi:ogram of i mplementinG t he legislation on hic;l.1er education and vocational educa tion, pass eel i n the :Zi'l..·s ·;: sessio11 o-2 t~1.e 03th Congress, and our appro priati ons anci proc~ams ::or mental healt!1 and mental retardation. li!0\"7 t hat's a pretty good outline o£ "t-Jhat ue 1 re going ·i: o c.!.o. 3cnator Scott, ~.. r:;..th your cooperati on anC: -;·1itl.1 the en thus:' as tic leade:;:ship of )7 0Ut" colleasue, Senator Clad·~ , I am confident that the second sessi on o:C the GOth Con3resn can be a vc-r:y great success. And iJoth o:Z ~7 0U can go bncl: to your .:-e spective conat:L tuency saying that you've done your part. AnC: 1 lmoH of no better reco:cci upon ~.Jhich you cen run, Senator Scott, t han to carry through t hose items o:i: the p1:o3ram I've outlined.
CL!~~ : Can you really be in favor of the Johnson p~ogram as he's out lined i t?
3COTT: I have a very :Cine recorcl -- 1 hope -- and I'm interested be cause I imar;ine that this :'!.. s about ~1hat you said at the beeinninc of t~1c GOth Con3ress a year a3o, and I'm "t·Jonderin3 vJhat mal-:es you so op timistic ~vhcn one-th:i..-.:d o1 your party is resolutely detet..-mincd to dig thei:L heels in on a :=ilibuster on ci vi l 1:ights. I "t·Jonder t-rhethcr you are p~ oj ecti n3 this for one year m: :Zo-.: ten years? Anci I also uon
IlilllPIIT'..EY: Hell, to ans"C"Jer your most recent utter ance, one o:: the rc.::J. 1 sons ue haven t been able t o do more is \JC haven't had quite enou3h enthuaiastic response and cooperation :Zrom the TI.epublican Party. It's the party more or less o.: the Lost Hor ~zo n rather than the lk~"t'l Frontie::, you see.
::JCOTT: This i s the technique o f: the l ion blaLling the nheep and oi the
{HOI~) t110 -::·-d.rcls maj o1:ity cor.Jplaininc; c:oout tl1e one-thh.·d mino::ity, Hubert. Hou don't you t~1:inl~ you've ::~dd3n ti1at olO. lio::.·se lon::; enough?
I~I.Ii.-iPEP..:~Y: llo, as a matte:: of fact, ue· ~1avcn't really been a"ble to ·i;ell ti1e publi.c the truth about the l:ind o2 obstructionism ue run in to. But I \·Jant to come bacl~ to this program, :Zoz- the JCth Cong1..·ess.
3COTT: Yes, because 1;·1hen you mention obst1.·uctionism aJ:e you thinidng of your tvJenty- i:ivc Democrats 1·1ho w·on' t be uith you'
£-IlliiPlT..ZY: He don ' t have that many. He have about, I'd say, t\venty ti:70 Southe1:n DenocJ:ats ·Hho 1·Jill oppose u::; on the civil rights issue.
3COTT: You'll ::;upport all oi: them 2o"J: reelection.
I~ffi.'lP l::;:'J!;Y: Ho, many o :~ them ·~::Jon' t asl~ me to.
3COTT: 'lour party 1-ri.ll support th;m. l-lay"~e you ' :ce pe1:sona non grata in a :Ze·o place::; .
IlUHPHrEY: Hell, I uasn' ·i: pla.nni1.1g on campa:lsninG in all o:C those states, unless you cen :Z:l::: it ul-' -- i!: you have any in:Clucnce in my pa::ty, you mir;ht be able to ~bi: it up so that I could campair;n around • u...,COTT : I :.;,.. I 11a d any :tn:.;. -1 uencc ~n. yrur party, ]O"ll ': YOU 1 c.' Tl.1 ave accomp 1.:t.sn- . ed a lo·t: more than you have in the last session.
CU.Rr:: r:ubert, I uould poin·;; out, that uhile \·Je have perhaps ei::;hteen I.emocreto v7ho ~.:e against some o:~ the pros rams o::: t h e P:Lesident, most o.~ the tl incs you outl::~ne:c: •1oulCi. be supportel: 'uy the Senators :ZJ:om Tennessee, the 3enators :Erom AlaLa.ma . It's that hard core of Neolith ic men ::L-1 the rit;ht-·uin:} o::: the t""!.epuolican ?arty I"Jho ~eally g:!.ve us most of OUJ: trouble.
1-lUHPI:P.EY: The d..::t::t:crencc ~s, Joe, ti.1at in the Democratic Party IV'C do have people of diffm:en·;; persuasion, of course, as you have in the Itepublican Party anlicans have a little d:.:. ~::::crent "Dalance. They have a conservative elemcn"i::, some o:Z uhich ;:;oes bacl: into c.ncient his tory , in tel."lllS of pol:!. tical ph~loGophy, oi a::,out tlu::ce-:!:ourths. You i.1ave about a quarte1: ·1:-Jho come in ·i:he liberal group, and I ao very p-roud of that g:coup, and then you have tln:ee-1ourti.1s ove:: he1:e that are still battling bacl• in the days o:: ·i:he thirties.
SCOTT: Uell, Hubert, I \·;ras out in you:.: home to\m, tvhere you lJe:.:·c bm:n, in Gu:..·on, South Dalwtu, the other ciay • • ••
:·llli·IPIIRE'I: •• • ••~:,. Democratic stronghol
3COTT: • ••• and I dro?ped oy the pha:.111acy o:.; your b:i:otller, I::.al;?h~ and he neve1: tol0. r..:1e that you clidn' t lmov-7 ho\·7 to count 01: that you ue1·e bad in .2:rithmctic . You say thl:ee-fourths o ·-= the I~epuol:lcans a:.:e all bad.
HUl·IP:lr...E'I: Oh no, 1 ::;aiC: they ·Nerc conse.:-vativc; I dic:in' t say they "t-7Cre baC., I juat said they ";rere mis0uiciecl.
~COTT: i·.i.is:;uidcd, ~;rhateve-;: choice you \7ant. Dut itave you remembered
(i.-i:ORE) - i:. - o::: :':o~3 otten that on seve:::al o~ ti.1e c i vil ri3hts bills a ll TI.epublicc:.ns ... l • • l ' ... ' . • t . ,.. t l . ... vo t-e d :..: 01: t 1em ana t nat on one .:ey voce, ·~..uency-e:J...r:;n- om.: o :..: _l.:..r·\.y- three I'..epublica::w, not co ve:.--./ lon:; o;::;o , auppm:ted a civi l ri::;~1ts vote \·7here you ~ouldn 1 t [;et ·:.:vJO·t~lirc~S 0 2 yotrC O\il1 people?
CLL\D..I.:: liou nany o:2 tl. ~ er:.1 voted :2oL.· cloture?
3COTT: Uell, a ereat many voted ::or clotux-e. i-.im:e t'1a11 t~Jo-thi:: ds 1'2 you'll loo~ into it.
IIlli·.iPIT.EY : I'd lU~e to interrupt the argument "o] sayinz that 1:ad1er tl.1an to discuss t h e erro-.:s o2 ~restc:n:6ay -- and that: ~voulci mal:e a splendid clocumentar:l -- that v1c ui3ht ·i;hinlc about \·.;bet \ve could do about tomor::ou. You give us t't'7en·::y-Z:':.ve l~epublicans; \'lc'll put t:u:ouc;h a c::.vil riz;hta proc:.:am t hat is the best that this count-;:y' s ever had o1..· ever even drcameQ o2. .lmci ~·Jc 1 re going ~o neeci t\·vre n·i.:y-~ive. And I 1L1 goi~: to say J:i8;7lt nou, for civil ri3hts it requi1:es b:;'.pa1:tisan support.
SCOTT: ~ · n1y are you 3oin:; ·::o neeci tl7enty-:E.:..ve? i-~ffi.IPI:::EY : Let ' s quit L.::.dciing each otllc:c ami the co·:1stituents. The :!:act o2 t :12 matter ::.s -- the [acts o2 life a-::c -- tl1at the Southern 3cnato:co a~c not r;o :l.n :::; to vote ~o1.· civil rithta . You Lnow that and - l:no-.:J it. This io just t he 1:·my i t i s . Th;;:.s is m:actly li.l:e aoLing a :::a!:'ne!: 2-.:-ou .L·.c:ncac 1.:0 vote usa:i.nst uheat . ilnd you l~ne\<7 he isn't coinc to do it.
SCOTT: You m:c :::;o:.:.n;3 to ~et t \·7o-ti1i:;.:·cis o~ ;;he Itepuo l::cans; you '11 3et at least t~Jcnty-tuo . I hope you'll 3et t-::v·nty-fi ve; ll10pe you'll get a ll o::: them.
HUi:lPE.l"1EY: ~T c need ·i.:uenty-flve o~ them.
SCOTT: But every t ime you cry abou·i: ·;;i."le necC:: f:m:: more I·epublicans in the Jenatc to accorupl:i.ch cc!:tai n things I sny to LJ.yscL.:, if 't·Jc are so valuaule, then Hhy oppose us fo:: o~f i ce? tn1y not elect the Republicam as a majo:.·:l.ty ancl ·i:hen ue can tal~e on this pro3ram ~or ourcelves uith 2ull reapons:.bility. Then you don't hav~ to say, ;:\Je Democrats could 3:l.ve the people n :::.::.nc prog1:am if the ~ep ublicans -- out-numbered 1 one-third -- i2 the P..cpublicanc \li'Ould only be N:ltll uo. '
CUJ.li: : -7ell, the aum·1er to that i s very clear ind;;cc1 . The people of the UnltcC::. States o.': kne1:ica just don't lJant to elect i1epubl·· cano and I can ~;rell understend thei r fine a:.scrimination. llUiiPIIH.EY: I see you have a very :::riendly sl OH he1.·e .
3COTT: I h aven 1 t sc;.id one thi ne;, IIubeJ:t, and thu·i: :;_J that you aslced \·7hethcr ue support these p::o2raus .
Hffi.lPiiT'.lZY : Yes •
8COTT: o::: course I support tl e ta~c bill. 1 suppot't the civil r:lghts bill and I've ;;iven you help nany times 1:1hen you nee0ec1 it. I see you J:nis2 your :::=in[.;er l il::e tl1is .
HUi,lP:::'!.EY: AnG. you 1 ve recponclec.~ uell .
3COTT: .And I ' ve responded and sa"d, 111\.11 t'iGlt, this is in the :
(i.iorr:;z) - 5 -
i. lla"tion' s interect anci I Ill '0c fo-r .:·~.: . An6 I 'u lJn o in,..,.u to be 2m~ a [:;OOc! part o:c you:..· pJ::03l:'an, bu·;; I 1 m soin0 to :cece:::ve tlle risht to be selective anci not me~cly o~cciient.
HUl~Pl·Jr.:;::;Y : \-Jell, I thinl: all o-.:: us do that:, Hu.-:;~1, and I -.;r7t!J.1'i: to say tha·c in support o:..: th:: c:;.vil ::ir;ly;:c bill -- .Jhich you C:,o and uhich you 1 ve actively c1one t~· .. ::ou3hout the 7-:;a::..·c -- you -.;·Jill oc e.ole to go ·;:o you:: constituents end tall: o-2 a :::;ooci :~eco:;..·G in ·;;his a:..·ca . T:ds i~ a b ·" paz-t:lsan rr-.~a:::;urc . I 1n not .:;oln;:; to 'Je on this proc.;:.·arJ to p::~tenci that civil r:!..2;:1 ·i:s can 0e passed by t~1e Democr-ats, bec~ucc ::.t can' 'i.: . It requ::res b:.:.partisan::;hip . An
SCOTT: \iell, 'I:'Je' :i: e the Oi.1CS uho thou~h t up civil r i 3hts. Go all the r.m"y bacL to Lincoln. ·: ;· c ~1ave tl1e obli.0at:::.on .
I ~Ut - iPfu~Y: I'll tell you uhat I'll clo. I'll ~:!.ve you all tl12 ct·edit in the -v7o:,:lcl . ~'\11 I 't·7ant to flo ia to paas ~t . Uou, ,.7e 1 :!.·e goin::; -~o be able .:. ·;: least to ~Toc";uc -::: ~:o:;..·ty -one to :Zol:i:y-tuo Dcmoct·ntic votes ·-=o ~ ~ • • :t" •·.··l L ~ c "'- v:t.'l L u~ ·~~.'-ro
:·lill,.iPIIr.J:Y : P...ncl 2m:.· cloture. Senator, Joe, you'r~ 1.·ig:1t . ~·l e need cloture :::irst 0ecause I don't u.:mt us i:o :::;o th:.:ou:;h ti1is miserable perZOl.ll1ancc o2 the p::..·oceso oi .:J:i:tr;_tion, trylnr; ·~o sec how t.~Je can 'i:Jear each ot:1e:: d o~m in o·.:c·ei.:' to brin::; up an ::.ssue.
CUJ.P.i:: : Tell t i1e uu HUllPHREY: Pell, clo-::ure simply t:Jeans bz-in.zin:; a queotion to a head . It calla o~:: debate ::;o you can vote on the subata.nce o:.: the issue. r: at 1 s uhat :2.t 1 s all ,_iJout . CLL\PJ' : You ;..1eec.l t\"70-dli::ds o:..: the Senators present and voting to get _.. t. You can paos t .1.1 e c:: v:::.l :::i.;_;i.1t3 bill 't7i·t:l u sim1Jle majority but 1 t You can u,. .c·i: ·i:o a vote on it unless you can u°Ct s:::::tv-scvenJ Senators to say, < ·!e ' ve had enour;ll i1o'i: a :'.x, let 1 s stop ••• ·· SCOTT: !...nC: you have si~:ty-seven Democt'ats and. , ndr.1:.:.ttedly, you can't set ti;.cm all? CU..nK: Yes. 3COTT: You nee 3COTT : I 1m go:.:.n3 to do it to the vcJ:y L.mit tha·:: I can help to clo it and I thinl~ we' 11 give you OUJ..· pl.·oportionate quota. But I tLinl: there are a fc1:1 l ittle te2ter-tottcrc!.:s on the Democ1..·atic si.cic \·Jl1o could be b:cou:;ht over ~vith a little mm:e o~ that pel:'suaaivc unct~on that you u::;e. 1 I-lUHPilP.EY: v·Je re ':JO::..l:ing on t:~12m anu .i. uant to s c::.. ~~ ;d1at a.ll the 'l:'eports thus far look very reassuring. CLARK : Hubert, it seems to me that it's fairly clear that we're going to pass a taJc bill in the n~ct couple of weeks, but t.-!hat are the tactics? l'lhat is the strategy of the Democratic leadership in bring ing the civil rights b ill to a vote in the Senate? (MORE ) -6- HUMPHREY: Well, I don't believe that's all been fully agreed upon yet, Joe, but the last conference in which I participated it appeared that we would have the bill as it came from the House. And it is my view that the best that we can do in the senate is to pass a bill as it comes from the House. I doubt that we can strengthen any such bill, and we'll be very fortunate if we can hold what is in the House bill. And when it comes, we can refer it to a committee giving them a certain day to report back or we can act on it immediately. Now we have a precedent for this in 1957, I believe, and in 1960. We can intercept the bill, so to speak, as it comes through the door of the Senate and call it up for immediate action. or we can use it as ••• we can put it on the calendar and refer it to committee with instructions to the committee to report back to the Senate in, let's say a week or 10 days, whatever we wish to do. It would be one of those two. But as you know, whatever move we make will be subject to debate and it is there that your description of cloture -- and what cloture means comes into effect. SCOTT: That's what I wanted to point out here that in this entire century of 63 years, as far as I am able to find out, the Republican Party has never conducted a filibuster on its own responsibility and I'm glad we have that record. HUMPHREY: All to your credit, sir. can I just say this about civil rights and maybe then we can move on to something else? It seems to me that the civil rights issue today is of such national importance - such overriding importance-- that it's almost in a position like our foreign policy. It requires bipartisan support. That doesn't mean that you don't analyze it and that you don't evaluate it and offer suggestions and proposals. But in the main, it appears to me that we've got to make this a bipartisan, national issue and for once and for all meet it head on. And I think we're going to do it and I believe that 1964 will be a banner year. And both of you men who have been stalwarts in this fight, you can claim a great deal of credit. On the tax issue, I think that it's fair to say that those of us who are concerned about jobs and concerned about a thriving economy and concerned about the role of investment in this private enterprise economy, are going to support this tax bill. I gather ••• I know Senator Clark... Joe, you've said so and I gather you support the tax bill. SCOTT: I'm disappointed that there wasn't much tax reform left in it. HUMPHREY: I don't think anyone could be more disappointed than your colleague, Joe. And I'd like to join in that chorus. Tax reforms are long overdue. But to put it bluntly, sometimes you can't get every thing you want. I think what we need now more than anything else is this additional thrust for the economy, this additional force and impetus that will help absorb what unemployed we have, and put to work more people, and expand the use of our plants, and modernize our equip ment. SCOTT: The President has come out with a budget of a little under $98 billion, for which everybody commends him. But do you seriously believe we will finish anywhere near that budget? Won't the President send down a lot Of supplemental requests? Won't the budget actually go way over $100 billion before he's finished? HUMPHREY: No, to the contrary. In fact I've discussed this intimately and personally with the President and some of you have too because President Johnson's had us all over to the White House discussing this budget with him. This budget that he sent down here is the Presidentia: budget and he said there would be no supplementals to this particular budget. In fact, he told us the other night that he expected the Congress to cut the budget some. He said that, as Majority Leader, he cut three Eisenhower budgets several billions of dollars. And I think (MORE) - 7 - he expects that we're going to do some cutting. And, may I add that he1 himself ••• I make a prediction here. I predict that President Johnson will send a supplemental budget message to Congress, particularly on Federal employment, reducing his 'budget request. Reducing it. SCOTT: This will be not only Utopia, but an extra cut-rate Utopia and you and I ••• HUMPHREY : It's going to happen. SCOTT: ••• have been taking some positions about cut-rate activities I hope it happens but it is not the history of it to happen. And I don't get to the White House as often as you do but I was down there recently and hope to do so again ••• CLARK : Not for four years more. SCOTT : I was there the other night as a guest of President Johnson and he said to us pretty much as you've said here about the budget. I would say the reception was skeptical. I think you will come in with considerable supplementals. I think the deficit will be twice what you're anticipating. CLARK: Oh, you're so gloomy today. HUMPHREY : You ought not to feel this way. You're such a fine man. SCOTT : I really am a very fine man. But what I'm getting at is ••• why I'm gloomy. Let's look at it. There have been 34 years in this century where the Republicans had party control. There have been 30 years when the Democrats have had control of the White House, 1900 t o 1964. In those years, the Republicans have balanced 22 budgets and the Democrats have balanced only three. And that's why I'm gloomy. CLARK : And those were the years in which progress in America was made and we caught up a little bit on our social and economic obsoles cence, passed the reforms without which the Republic might well have floundered: and then we just sat down under a tree for a while and let the Republicans do nothing. SCOTT: Your periods of the unbalanced budgets then were the periods in which you passed your debts on to your grandchildren and everybody got ••• CLARK: Well, now, you had the largest unbalanced budget in peace time history -- Dwight David Eisenhower and you know it. $13 billion. SCOTT: You don't think that the ••• HUMPHREY: lllould you like to comment on that" SCOTT : Yes. Most of the time you don't want me to comment. But I would say this : There was one budget which was very high because we had the depression of-- what was the year '56? ••• CLARK : The second Eisenhower recession, I think you'd call it. SCOTT : Nobody wants to see a recession. Generally speaking it isn't ••• CLARK : We haven't had any since Kennedy was in. SCOTT: ••• accurate to charge the recession against the President. But that's your tactics to charge the recession entirely to Mr. Eisen hower, "who went out and brought everybody to their knees and", I believe -- according to your view -- "they sold apples." Actually it was a recession and as a result of the recession, the revenues did not {MORE) - 8 - come in as anticipated and there was a very big deficit. But even so, the total of the Eisenhower deficits was still no greater than the total of Democratic presidents in various periods such as a typical four years or eight years under Roosevelt, for example. You had a good many deficits, and you'll have bigger ones than $13 billion if you stay in power longer than this year. HUMPHREY : Deficits are not the worse thing that can happen to a country. There's something worse than a deficit, that•s defeat and war and depression and destruction of democratic institutions ••• CLARK: Chronic and persistent unemployment. HUMPHREY: ••• and the breakdown of your economy. These are things that we'd like to avert and I think that we have done a very good job of it. And. I repeat once again, we ought to look ahead. I thinlc most of our viewers and listeners know what we've done in the past. I think they'd lilce to Jcnm'l, for example, 'IIJhat we' re going to do about youth employ ment where we find a rising tide of teenage unemployed. I thiruc they'd lil~e to know what we plan on doing further in the field of education than we've done. And then, I think people would like to know how we're going to attaclc these pockets of poverty. Now this is vJhat people want to know. This other stuff that we're going through i s just so much chit-chat about yesterdays and it doesn't get us any place where we ought to be tomorrow. What are we going to do about the elderly people here and their medical problems? SCOTT : Hubert, all of these questions raise a further question. Some of these bills you mention have been passed in the Senate and have gone to the House. You have a majority of about 100 over in the House and there they stay -- locked up and nothing happens to them. HUMPHREY: In the Rules Committee. Could you get me one of those Republicans? SCOTT : I'd be glad to help. CLARK: Just one Republican. All we need is one Republican. SCOTT: You very often had my one Republican vote when I was over there on the Rules Committee. But you enlarged the Rules Committee, by adding two more Democrats ••• CLl\RK : And one Republican. SCOTT : ••• and one Republican, in order to make sure you had the missing vote which you lost in some key issues after I left the House. So you created the Rules Committee exactly as you wanted it to make sure you could carry out your purposes and you fell all over your own feet again and you're just as badly off as if you hadn't ••• HUMPHREY : That' s 'ltJhy '\'.7e need your help , Hugh. SCOTT : But I'm not a member of the House. CLAru<: It would be a great thing if you were. SCOTT : I'm going to say to the people out there, "you notice that two Democrats are continuously saying how much they need my help in the Senate." CLARK : I'd like to have your help in the House. Why don't you go back to the House and work on the Rules Committee? SCOTT : t•Jhen you say war is worse than a deficit, of course it is. But are you arguing that an unbalanced budget leads to peace or that a balanced budget leads to war? (HORE) 9 HUMPHREY: You're too smart for that, Hugh. SCOTT: I'm too smart, but I'm trying to find out if you two fellows HUMPHREY: I may not be too intelligent or smart, but I do know that we ••• that the large deficits that accrued in this country were in the war years and in the Korean war years, and in these periods of vast readjustment when our country had to take on unbelievable responsibili ties for world security and all that goes with it. I'm not saying tha~ a deficit is something to cherish, something to look forward to. But I am saying that it's better to have had a deficit than to have had weakness. It is better to have had a deficit than to have had con tinued depression and chronic unemployment. Now, what are we trying t< do, and what I said a moment ago, is with programs such as civil right: and the tax program, and the youth employment program, and the area redevelopment program, and the attack on poverty to eliminate these deficits. We can improve the economy. SCOTT: Yes, and I am for doing those things. I'm for doing them wisely and as soon as we can wherever they are useful to the Republic. But, you both had a little fun with me about the Eisenhower heavy deficit that year and neither one of you ••• HUMPHREY : You and Joe were battling it out -- you Pennsylvanians. SCOTT: ••• \rlere candid enough to ·mention that these deficits were created by the obligations incurred by the Democratic House and Demo cratic Senate. And the Chief Executive can only carry out, and appro priate, and spend the money which the Congress gave him. So you put him in this bucket and then you are trying to exploit it. HUMPHREY: That's just not the fact. The fact of the matter is that in each of the Eisenhower years -- and I think President Eisenhower did many good things -- but in each of those years, the then Majority Leader of the United States Senate, Senator Lyndon B. Johnson, proudly proclaimed that he had been responsible as the Majority Leader here i.n the Senate and Rayburn in the House for cutting the budget request of President Eisenhower. So that had we appropriated as much as the President had asked for, the deficit would have been even larger. Now you know that ••• SCOTT: No, I don't know that because ••• I knm.,r the facts because I was here. ~Jhat happened was that the Majority Leader frequently got up and said, "I'll cut this, that and the other," including certain space and research projects, by the way, which were cut by Representa tive Mahon, I think it was, in the House and by the Majority Leader in the Senate. These cuts were made and this was claimed as saving money. But in the mean\ HUMPHREY : Senator, the facts are that from 1953 through the Eisenhower Administration of January, 1961, some $13 billions were cut by the Congress out of the budget requests of the President. Now that is a fact. I'm saying that the total when you add up what was aslced for and what was appropriated and when you add up what was added and what wasn' added ••• SCOTT : I hope you can get your leadership to give you some of these things which are good and some you won't get, but before we close the program, I have ••• HUMPHREY: You have a present for us? SCOTT: Not for you. But since this is our last program, I have a present for Senator Clark, (much laughter) because Senator Clark says he has to go out on the hustings now and oppose me from nm'l on and I hope \rle' 11 bo·th be back together. Iv1eanwhile, if he's got to oppose me, (r-10RE) 9 • • - - 10 - I want him to use soft gloves instead of fists, so Senator Clark, With my compliments (giving him a set of boxing gloves}. CLARK : I'm grateful to you for this ]{ind gift, but I'm going to leave this show and turn these in for a pair of brass knuckles. HUMPHREY: l'Jell, I hope that you men will fight with the Marquis of Queensb erry rules, brass knuckles or not. SCOTT : vlell, he can put these on over the brass Jcnuckles. HUrilPHREY: These are mighty fine. As a matter of fact, they look lil SCOTT : It lool~s to me liJ~e you're both heavily armed. CLARK : Now, the format on this show, ladies and gentlemen, is that Hugh closes it. He doesn't have much time left. So I want to turn it over to him with this remaining question. Senator Humphrey has out lined the Johnson Democratic program. I want you to tell our audience just which parts of it you're against. I thinl~ you're really for every bit of it. You ought to be running as a Democrat. I don't think your own right-wing is going to be happy with your position ••• SCOTT: You ask me this question when the show is eight seconds over. It will tal ANNOUNCER : Ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to Your Senators Report from Hashington, D.C., a report to the people of Pennsylvania brought to you in the public service by Senator Joseph s. Clark, Demo crat, and Senator Hugh Scott, Republican. SCOTT : I find that even though he's closed the show that we actually had 22 seconds left and I don't think I can do it in 22 seconds either. But I will an~;er from time to time, the things I'm for and the things I'm against and I hope that people will be satisfied HUMPHREY : I proclaim it a dra\'1. (Laughter) Minnesota Historical Society Copyright in this digital version belongs to the Minnesota Historical Society and its content may not be copied without the copyright holder's express written permis sion. 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