Thirty years after being charged with conspiracy to murder Norman Scott, former Liberal leader Jeremy Thorpe gives a rare interview and talks frankly about the party, his role in its history and much more besides. Interview by York Membery. interview: Jeremy Thorpe

he years have clearly – he speaks in short sentences in he says. ‘I’d also been lucky taken their toll on Jer- a barely audible whisper – it is enough to know both Megan emy Thorpe but few soon apparent when we meet at Lloyd George – who was a huge politicians have had to his elegant Georgian house near influence on me – and her father endure such trauma in Kensington Gardens in London David, of whom I was an enor- Ttheir lives. Forced to step down that his brain remains sharp. mous admirer. The Conserva- as Liberal leader following the This once formidable cam- tive Party never held any appeal whirlwind that erupted follow- paigner, who led the Liberal for me.’ ing allegations made by a male Party to its best post-war result At Oxford he learnt the model, he lost his seat at the 1979 in the February 1974 election, importance of public speaking election, and was subsequently when it polled an impressive six and still believes that the Oxford struck down by Parkinson’s Dis- million votes, nearly 20 per cent Union is ‘vital grounding for ease. While he is treated with of the poll, is a lifelong Liberal, those wanting to go into poli- due respect by the party estab- despite being the son of John tics’. Despite proving a natural lishment – Nick Clegg recently Henry Thorpe, and a maternal on the platform, he goes on to attended a low-key 79th birthday grandson of Sir John Norton- reveal: ‘I was terrified the first party at his London home – his Griffiths, both of whom were time I stood to make a speech at reputation has never fully recov- Conservative MPs. a Liberal Assembly.’ ered from being charged with Educated at Eton and then Adopted as Liberal candidate conspiracy to murder Norman at Trinity College, Oxford, for the Conservative-held North Scott in 1978, even if he was sub- where he studied law, he became Devon constituency in 1952, he sequently acquitted. Chairman of the Liberal Club, managed to halve the Conserva- Given his Parkinson’s, it is and subsequently President of tive majority at the 1955 gen- not altogether surprising that he the Oxford Union in 1951. ‘I eral election, before going on looks his age. Despite the dis- joined the Liberals because the to narrowly win the seat in the ease robbing him of much of the other two parties were polar- 1959 election, which saw Harold power of his speech, however ised between Left and Right,’ Macmillan’s Tories win a near-

Journal of Liberal History 59 Summer 2008 23 interview: jeremy thorpe

landslide. ‘I captured the seat ‘The party nearly died in 1970’, thanks in part to its Liberal tradi- he says. ‘It was a close run thing. tion’, he says modestly although And if I hadn’t survived as an MP in truth to win in 1959 was just as – my majority had been slashed much a tribute to Thorpe’s out- – I really don’t know if there standing campaigning skills. The would still be a Liberal Party.’ 1950s saw the Liberal Party reach What would he have done if he a nadir in its fortunes, with the had lost his seat? ‘Perhaps gone Conservative and Labour par- into television,’ he muses. ties hogging the central ground As it happens, Thorpe sur- in politics, and as a result many vived, if by the narrowest of mar- called into question the Liberals’ gins, and the next three years saw continuing existence. And with him lead the party to a string of just a handful of MPs, Thorpe by-election victories at Roch- readily admits: ‘We came very dale, Sutton & Cheam, Ripon, close to extinction during the the Isle of Ely, and Berwick. decade.’ Those successes paved the way While the 1960s saw the Lib- for his moment of glory: the gen- erals triumph at the Orpington eral election triumph of Febru- by-election, and go on to win ary 1974, when he won the party over three million votes in 1964, six million votes (19.3 per cent of almost double the 1959 figure, the vote) even if it only ended up under Jo Grimond’s leadership, with a paltry fourteen seats. the decade ultimately proved Following the inconclusive disappointing – even if from a February 1974 general elec- personal point of view, it saw tion, which produced a hung Thorpe make rapid progress parliament, Heath even invited through the party ranks, in 1965 Thorpe to join a Conservative- becoming Party Treasurer and, led coalition government, offer- following Grimond’s resigna- ing him a position in the Cabinet tion in 1967, party leader, with as Home Secretary, in a desper- the support of six of the twelve ate bid to stay in power. Tempt- Liberal MPs. ing though the offer must have Somewhat surprisingly, been, Thorpe turned it down, Thorpe takes what could be knowing that to accept would interpreted as a bit of a swipe have torn the party apart. ‘It at Grimond (Liberal leader was a pointless exercise anyway 1956–67), the inspirational fig- because even with our support ure who is widely credited with Heath wouldn’t have had a par- helping to revive the Liberals’ liamentary majority’, observes post-war fortunes. ‘He was a Thorpe. great ideas man,’ says Thorpe. There had always been ‘But the organisation was a rumours about Thorpe’s sexual- shambles when I took over the ity and in 1975, Norman Scott, party – and you know, I played a who claimed that he had had a part in just about every by-elec- homosexual affair with him, was tion campaign that we won in confronted by Andrew New- the sixties and early seventies.’ ton, a former airline pilot, who However, for all Thorpe’s shot and killed the dog Scott youthful dynamism, and assorted was walking and then allegedly Edwardian suits, waistcoats and pointed the gun at Scott him- trilby hats, which undoubtedly self. The subsequent scandal raised his public profile, the 1970 engulfed Thorpe and forced him general election proved a disas- to step down as leader in 1976. ter for the party. Its number of His political career was effec- MPs slumped from thirteen to tively over and three years later six, resulting in opponents jok- he lost his seat at the 1979 elec- Jeremy Thorpe ing that ‘the entire parliamen- tion, a week before his trial. in 2008 (photos; tary party could fit into a taxi’. It For all his personal tribula- York Membery) was a grim time, admits Thorpe. tions, Thorpe has continued to

24 Journal of Liberal History 59 Summer 2008 interview: jeremy thorpe take a keen interest in the Lib- There’s everything to play for, in So what I’m aware, although it’s a view eral Party and, following its my opinion.’ that many people of all political merger with the SDP in 1988, If the Lib Dems were indeed is Thorpe shades probably secretly share. the Liberal Democrats – and to hold the balance of power proudest of, I And what about the European is clearly buoyed by the party’s after the next election, what Union, I ask? Has he changed strong showing in this year’s advice would Thorpe have for ask? ‘Helping his views in any way? ‘I think local elections, when it won his successor in the ensuing Europe has grown too power- more votes than the Labour negotiations? ’We’ve simply got the party win ful’, says Thorpe to my surprise, Party. So how does he think the to take a tougher approach to for he played a prominent role party and its leader Nick Clegg negotiating – something I think six million in the pro-Europe campaign in are faring? ‘The party is much we could have done in the days votes – and the 1975 referendum to decide stronger now than when I was of the Lib-Lab Pact [1977–78] whether Britain should stay in leader,’ he says, despite its failure too,’ says Thorpe. ‘But with so putting us the EEC. And perhaps too unac- to stem the Tory surge in Crewe many more seats, today’s party countable as well? He nods in & Nantwich which resulted in a is much better placed to take a back on the agreement. headline-grabbing Conservative more robust approach and nego- So what is Thorpe proudest by-election win, albeit the par- tiate that bit harder on electoral electoral of, I ask? ‘Helping the party win ty’s first for twenty-five years. reform among other things.’ map’. six million votes – and putting ‘It’s better organised. It has more It is clear that Thorpe looks us back on the electoral map’, MPs and more councillors. And back sentimentally on his time as he says with just the slightest I think Nick’s doing well … Liberal leader (even if it saw the hesitation – and the glimmer of although it takes a bit of time to death of his first wife Caroline a smile. But does he ever think settle into the job.’ in a car crash) – at least until the that he and his accomplish- What of the recent storm in Norman Scott affair blew up and ments have, to an unfair extent, a teacup when Clegg admitted sent his career crashing down perhaps been written out of the during an interview that he’d to earth. ‘I enjoyed leading the party’s history as a result of the had ‘less than thirty’ sexual part- party enormously and if I could Norman Scott affair, I ask as sen- ners? ‘It will soon be forgotten’, have carried on doing so I would sitively as possible? He appears he says with a shrug, obviously have done but it just wasn’t pos- not to hear me. I’m about to regarding it as a trivial mat- sible,’ he says quietly, his voice repeat the question when I catch ter. What would Thorpe advise trailing off. his eye and sense that he’s heard the party’s young leader if he is I am about to raise the Scott me but would simply prefer not asked something similarly ris- affair when, perhaps reading to answer. And given his fragile qué again? ‘Just be tough – and my mind, he pre-empts me. ‘Of state of health, now is clearly not if he doesn’t particularly want to course, you know Norman Scott the time for a Paxo-style grill- answer something, ask himself has been discredited’, he says ing. So instead I thank him for “Do I really want to answer this before adding quietly: ‘Although his time, shake his frail hand and question?”’, whispers Thorpe. the affair had a very serious effect make my way out. He readily admits to being on my career …’ Not to mention Few politicians in modern unhappy about the way the his health. For Thorpe goes on British political history can have party treated Charles Kennedy, to suggest that ‘the terrible stress been condemned to such a harsh who like him, was forced to step and strain’ of those dark days fate as Thorpe: to lose a wife, down as leader. ‘I think he was helped trigger the onset of his and then suffer disgrace, politi- treated very badly,’ says Thorpe. Parkinson’s Disease. cal ignominy and the slow liv- ‘Drunkenness is not a permanent The old politician is clearly ing death that is Parkinson’s. disability. It can be treated.’ tiring and it seems an appropriate Furthermore, he will almost Despite David Cameron and time to wrap up our interview. certainly never be accorded the Tories’ current double-digit As we walk slowly down the the late-life accolade of a peer- lead in the polls over Labour, stairs he asks if there is anything age or knighthood like so many and their Crewe triumph, else I’d like to ask. What does he of his peers. Perhaps posterity Thorpe believes ‘a political rea- think about Robert Mugabe, I will treat this most intriguing if lignment of the “left” is still say, knowing he’s always taken a tragic of political figures, who very much on the cards’ in the keen interest in African affairs? in his heyday was perhaps the years ahead. ‘The Labour Party ‘I think he is a ghastly, wicked most popular party leader and is increasingly becoming a two- man’, whispers Thorpe. ‘He brilliant campaigner in the land, strand party – of socialists and should be assassinated.’ ‘Sorry?’, more kindly. social democrats’, he says, ‘while I ask, seeking clarification. ‘He the Tories are similarly divided – should be assassinated,’ he reit- York Membery is a journalist and between “liberals” and the more erates – something which is not a member of the Liberal Democrat hardline, right-wing Tories. Liberal Democrat policy as far as History Group executive.

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