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123 The [ ] Bill, 1986 124

AN HONBLE MEMBER: But I may add SHRI M. KADHARSHA (Tamil Nadu)': for your information that men also need to be On a point of order. My point of order is there. about the very moving of the motion by the Minister. Sir, the bulky Bill was circulated SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA: only this morning. If you go through the rules But my point is that we have provided that of procedure rule 123 clearly say* that there before the magistrate, as I said hands over "should be a gap of two days after circulation cusody, an enquiry through a recognised of the Bill, before it could be taken up for women's social welfare organisation would be consideration. But I do not know why the conducted to ensure that the custody of the Government is rushing through this Bill. It person who is being given after rescue, has become the practice of the Government to isTntcPthe right hands or into a children's sleep aH. the time an^ at the fag-end °£ the home, as the case may be. session, rush through such very important Bills. We want to have enough time to go SHRj K. MOHANAN: We men are more through the Bill. It is not proper on the Part of concerned about this than women. the Government to rush through this Bill. If they had shown the same speed in tackling the THE VICE CHAIRMAN (SHR1 M. P. terrorists, by this time the terrorist activities KAUSHIK): The question is: would have been wiped out of the country,

"That the Bill further to amend the Suppression of Immoral Traffic in Women THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. P. and Girls Act, 1956, be taken into KAUSHIK): It is the discretion of the consideration." chairman. Therefore, I allow the Bill t0 be moved. The ma ion was adopted. SHRI K. MOHANAN: About the other THE VICE CHAIRMAN (SHR1 M. P. BUI also# we raised this question. KAUSHHK): We shall now take up clause- by-clause consideration of the Bill. SHRI GURUDAS DAS GUPTA (West Clause 2 to 24 were added to the Bill. Bengal): Even the Chairman should do his homework Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the Title were added to the Bill. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. P. SHRIMAT1 MARGARET ALVA: KAUSHIK); It is an important Bill. It Sir, I move: should be given top priority.

That the Bill be passed." SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, I beg to move: The question was put and the motion was adopted. "That the Bill to provide for the constitution and regulation of an armed force of the Union for combating terrorist activities with a view to protecting States THE NATIONAL SECURITY GUARD against internal disturbances and for mat- BILL, 1986 ters connected therewith, as passed by the , be taken into consideration." THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF STATES (SHRI GHULAM NAB1 AZAD): Sir, A beg t0 move. 125 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 126

The quetion was proposed. 9. Shri Moslafa Bin Quasem. 10

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. P. Shri K. Mohanan. KAUSHIK); There is one am--endment by Shri K. Mohanan. with instructions to report by t'fle first day of the next session." SHRI K. MOHANAN: Sir, they have not The quetion was proposed. circulated even my amend ment. It is not with me. SHRI M. A. BABY (Kerala): Mr. Vice- Chairman... THE VICE-CHAIRMAN l SHRI M. P. KAUSHKK): This amendment SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Mr. Vice- has also been circulated. Everybody get Chairman, I wanted to say something about it. the Bill...

SHRI K. MOHANAN: Just now I have THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. P. got it KAUSHIK): All right. Mr. Baby, the Minister wants to say something; will you SHRI GURUDAS DAS GUPTA: On a kindly wait a minute? point of order. The point of order is that the SHRI M. A. BABY: Yes. amendment has to be circulated in order to give the Members an opportunity to know SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, during what it is actually. Otherwise how are we the last few years has been steading going to diseuss it? At Jeast 1 have not been assuming menacing proportions in some parts given a copy of it. of the country. The terrorists indulge in wanton killing, arson, looting and other hein- VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI !M. ous crimes such s hijacking with a view to P. KAUSHIK): This was circulated. terrorising the peaceful citizens and creating Everybody got it. fear and panic in the minds of certain sections of the public to disturb the even tempo of life SHRI K. MOHANAN: Sir I move: and harmony among different sections of the people. With a view to effectively combating "That the Bill to provide for the such terrorist activities the Government has constitution an^ regulation of an armed created an armed force called the National force of the Union for eom-bating terrorist Security Guard. The nature of duties assigned activities with a view to protecting States to the force requires that the force should have against internal disturbances and for mat- a statutory sanction appropriate to its special ters connected therewith, be referred to a need and it is imperative that the highest Select Committee of the Ra-jya Sabha standards of discipline are maintained among consisting of the following members, its members. This object is proposed to be namely:— achieved through a stringent code governing the members of the National Security Guard. 1. Miss Jayalalitha Jayaram The Bill seeks to provide for the constitution, 2. Dr. (Shrimati) Sarojini Ma- control, direction and superintendence of the force. The Bill sufficiently lists the offences hishi. which, if committed by the members of this 3. Shrimati Renuka Chowdhury. force, shall be punishable by duly constituted Security Guard Courts, the punishments which 4. Shri V. Gopalsamy. may be awarded for these offences, constitution of Security Guard Courts and their 5. Shri Chitta Basu. procedures as 6. Shri N. E. Balaram. 7. Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. ■8. Shri Nirmal Chatterjee. 127 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 128 [Shri Ghulam Nabi Azad] separate wing and giving them suffi cient training so that they could be well as the provisions relating to con- made efficient to fight ana combat firmation, revision and execution of sentences terrorism? We do not understand passed by such, courts, etc. I hope that the that. They could have doae that. Also, Bill will be welcome by-all sections of the we have certain apprehensions now House. because so far as the Central Gov With these words I commend the BUI to ernment is concerned, my apprehens the House for its consideration and ion is that they are waiting or an. acceptance. appropriate political situation when they can acquire more and more SHRI M. A. BABY; Mr. Vice-Chairman, powers in their hands. Indeed, Sir, once I started my speech the honourable the whole nation is concerned about Minister interrupted me to make his the terrorist activities and all the po statement. If this is how very important litical parties are concerned about national issues and this is how the Central the escalation of the activities Government is intending to combat terrorism of the various terrorist ele- and if they go ahead in the same fashion, ments in different parts of the country. All of everybody knows what the result would be of us are concerned about the various terrorist and the lofty proclamations of the Central separatist forces which are coming up now in Government. the country. In this situationj when the whole nation is united on the question of fighting At the outset I would like to make it absolutely clear that my political terrorism, the Central Government, under the party is second to none in realising guise of fighting terrorism, can acquire more of and more powers. This is very unfortunate. In the importance fighting terrorism and curbing terrorism in our country this connection, I would like to tell that there which is aided and abetted by im are certain aspects on which we have very perialist forces and which is flourish serious criticisms to make, particularly about ing in our country today. But our the way in which the Central Government behaves ana the behaviour of the Central criticism is that the Central Govern ment is continuously failing in using Government and. the ruling party provides a even the existing laws and regulations very fertile soil for the various separatist and within its power, in effectively com terrorist forces to thrive on. I shall come to that bating terrorism. That is why we later. A very fertile soil is being provided by wonder why the Central Govern the Central Gov* ernment to those forces to ment is coming forward with a thrive on. So, our criticism is that there is no ■ proposal for forming the new so- need, no necessity, as a matter of fact, for called National Security bringing forward such a Bill for the constitution of a separate National Security 5-00 P.M. Guard. Already the Cen tral Government is having Guard when the Central Government could five or six parliamentary for have called out efficient young personnel from ces, namely, the Border Security the various other paramilitary forces and given Force, the Central Industrial Secarhy them training. This is our criticism. Force, the , the Central Reserve Police, the Indo-Tibetan The second point is that, through an Border Police ana so on and so forth. executive order in 1984. the National Which is known to all of us. An ex Security Guard was already constituted. This planation, a specious argument, itself is wrong and is an undemocratic which is placed before us is that practice. This is those forces 'are not specially train ed to combat terrorism. If it IS so, ■what prevents the Central Government trorn absorbing competent personnel from the Centrally-controlled parami litary forces and making them into a 129 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 130 another method of undemocratc ruling or this hand, but on the other your record is very can be called ruling by Ordinances or by undemocratic, unfortunately, we cannot leave issuing executive orders to constitute it or take it for granted. something and afterwards coming forward with a Bill. This a'so we object to, especially Secondly the separate National Security when the Central Government is taking Guard personnel have been prevented from recourse to issuing Ordinances for its daily having their association or organisation for work. Not only that. For such a matter like political consciousness. If they are forced to constituting the National Security Guard, an remain ignorant about the political events in executive order has been issued two years ago our country, I fear that this will cause trouble, and now this new Bill has been brought and I do force-fully demand that they should forward. I reiterate my request that this Bill be be given freedom for political and social sent to a Select Committee, as has been activities, so that they will be knowledgeable suggested through an amendment just now. about the happenings in our society. To combat terrorism, they should know the aims Now, Sir, it has been very clearly and methods of terrorist activities. stated in this Bill that this National Security Guard is being constituted Thirdly, in provision 12, part (b), the for combating terrorist activities National Security Guard personnel are with a view to protecting the States allowed to have recreational association and against internal disturbances, r have of purely social, recreational or of religious a serious objection to the term being nature. Here I have certain apprehensions used here, that is, "internal disturbances". regarding this particular part; association of Because of this term being used here, religious nature. What does this mean? the Central Government, through Already we have sufficient trouble in Punjab the National Security Guard and where in the name of religion they 'have through various other paramili- formed their own terrorist groups, and it is in tary forces under its command, can intervene the name of religion that terrorist activities are in States in matters which are strictly State being conducted in the land of Punjab in our subjects like law and order. Now, it has been country. And you are giving the right to have assured that only to combat terrorism this religious associations. So far as religion is would be used. Unfortunately, with pain in concerned, according to our Constitution, my heart, I have to express my apprehensions according to natural justice, hi every civilised because earlier also so many such guarantees society, citizens) should be allowed to have had been given by the Central Government the right and liberty to have any religious when the Maintenance of Internal Security views. That should be their personal probem, Act was passed. When that was mooted, personal issue. It should not be brought into various honourable Members expressed their their social activities like forming associations apprehensions and assurances were given by on the basis of religion. If you incite them to the Central Government that it would not be have associations on the basis of religion, in used against political activists trade union the National Security Guard there will be movements and other democratic movements. Christian associations, there will be Sikh But. Sir_pre-cisely for that purpose only, the associations and there will be Muslim MISA was used the DIR was used and the associations and there are sub-divisions in the NSA was used. Hindu religion as we have in the Kerala Min- istry. Like that in the National Security Guard [Mr. Deputy Chairman in the ChairJ you will have associations I do not want to elaborate more. Assurances will be given on the one 958 RS—5. 131 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 132

[Shri M. A. Baby] tral Government do not have a dear-cut perspective or understanding of how to on the basis of Teligion. Then there an be fight terrorism and how it originates. Ac tension between them; there can be fights cording to us, we have to identify the among themselves, and then you will have to material conditions of the origin oi come forward with another Bill constitute terrorism and terrorist forces. Terrorism another Security Guard to look after tension originates from inequality. Terrorism within the National Security Guard. This is originates from a social sys ridiculous. So I have serious objections about tem that exists and sustains that part also. in some different parts of the globe. We have seen how imp erialism is engaged in terrorist acti Now, so far as the question of power of vities, i do not want to elaborate deployment of the National Security Guard is On that. The naked aggression com concerned, as in the case of other - mitted and perpetrated by American military forces with the Central Government imperialists on Libya is well known. we have an apprehension that this will also be Tt is an act of State terrorism. It was used without a request from the State Cabinet. correctly condemned even by the My concrete proposal is that until and unless non-aligned movement. Our House the Centrte receives a request from the State also condemned that. We know how Cabinet, the National Security Guard should terrorism is perpetrated in South Af not be deployed. If the State is under rica. That is State terrorism safe President's rule, such request should come guarded by imperialist forces. We from the . This aspect I want to find various terrorist groups and make very clear. gangis in all capitalist countries en gaged in terrorist activities. In the Now, in clause 127, in Chapter X, sub- present day world, imperialism under section (2) it has been mentioned "with the the leadership of America is taking concurrence of the State Government". Here recourse to terrorist activities so that the concurrence is a eupham.ism to under-play the onward march of humanity and the dominance of the Centre. We know that in society for freeing itself from regard to the , if there is a exploitation, freedom and for national dispute between the Centre and the State liberation can be mechanically, phy Governments, what Central Government says sically and forcefully prevented thro will go. So 'concurrence' is a euphemism to ugh State terrorism. (Time Bell Rings') conceal the overriding powers given to the That is what is happening in Nicara Central Government to send its para-military gua also. The same thing is happen forces to the States. I have a very serious ing in Sri Lanka. This is happening objection about that. Apart from this, there are in Pakistan also. They are helping the so many other points which should be discus- terrorists in Punjab. I do not want sed in the Select Committee. It should he to go into details. discussed threadbare.

: Now, I have some other points in relation to The American imperialists are engaged in the very objective of the National Security terrorist activities in another tnanner also. Guard. It is stated that this is to fight They killed our Prime Minister, Mrs. Indira .terrorism. How can we fight terrorism? Gandhi. We criticised the socio-economic Unfortunately, fhe Congress leadership and policies of Mrs. . But we do the Cen- believe that the hand of CIA and American imperialist is there behind the murder of Mrs. Indira Gandhi. Of course, Sikh- terrorism is there. But they are moving in the hands of American imperialism.'You are. only finding the tools. You are not finding the 133 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 134

.hand which uses the tools. That is our ernment, unemployed youth are being criticism. The same American imperialism is recruited by the terrorist organisa behind the murder of Oiof Palme who was tions. And this is what happened in murdered in Sweden. Likewise, imperialism Germany and Italy when fascist forces engage es itself in terrorist activities against had come up. We know the history. national leaders in our country. The American This House knows that. So, Sir, so imperialism is playing a very dirty role along long as the social problems, the eco with other imperialist forces. You are failing nomic problems are not solved and so to identify them. They are aiding" and long as you follow the capitalist path abetting all the terrorist forces. Terrorism is of development which breeds regional not just a law and order problem. Our Prime imbalances, which breeds poverty, ig Minister talked about dealing fifth terrorism norance and illiteracy and so on and politically. Coming into our national sphere which keeps people in backward con and terrorism within our own country, the sciousness, which keeps people in policies pursued by the Congress (I) communal feeling and parochial feel Government since Independence provide a ing, you cannot solve this. Communa- fertile soil for terrorism to grow up. This is lism may develop into a form of fana our contention. The regional imbalance that ticism. And once communalism dev has existed in our society provides elops into a form of fanaticism, later opportunities to various secessionist on that may develop or deteriorate movements, separatist movements and into a form of terrorism also. This regional movements to come up. The general you are not recognising, this you are backwardness, poverty, unemployment not identifying. Apart from this, in parochialism, etc. are being used by terrorist these circumstances, when the terro ele-. ments. Who are being recruited as ter- rist forces come up as a result of your roists? Unemployed youths? A few minutes own policies, the policies of the Cen back, we were discussing another Bill about tral Congress (I) Government, you prostitution and othr social evils. Since they are caught up in a kind of mytholo do not have any means of livelihood, they are gical predicament where Bhasma- taking recourse to prostitution as a kind of sura went against the creator of self-emp'oyment programme. Bhasmasura himself. Now, you are forced to take some steps against terrorists. Whenever you take con MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please crete steps against the terrorists, we conclude now. are all there to openly support you. But still there is some inherent weak SHRI M. A. BABY: Since it is a very ness in y°vr policies because for your important subject and since the Deputy political advantages at times, you are Chairman is magnanimous in this matter, I also soft-pedaling with various com hope a few more minutes will be given to me. munal and fanatic forces who later on develop as terrorists. For example, we MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You have are discussing about the national already taken more time. security guards. In my home State Kerala, four black listed foreigners—they SHRI M. A. BABY: I am concluding, Sir. are not black-listed by some of Like the destitute women forced to take us or the opposition parties but by recourse to prostitution as a self-employment the Home Ministry-^not onlv entered proT gramme un-proclaimed by our Gov- Kerala but they were also received by the State Government, they were re ceived as S+ate guests, rather as State paying guests.' (Time bell rings). I do not know to whom they paid what. {Time bell rings) Anyway they have been given a red carpet welcome in our State and they haye. been taken to , various parts of the StateXTime bell 135 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SAB.HA1 Bill, 1986 136

[Shri M. A. Baby] your hands. That itself will damage the very fabric of federal system which will also help rings). This is the way in which you guard encourage separatist forces to come up. That our national security. If you go on.. . is what I would like to mention in this rela- MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I am now tion, Sir. Thank you. calling the next speaker. SHRI P. N. SUKUL (Uttar Pradesh): Mr. SHRI M. A. BABY: In just half a minute I Deputy Chairman, Sir, 1 rise to support this very am concluding, Sir. So, this is your weakness. welcome piece of legislation which proposes to On the one hand you are genuinely disturbed raise a specialised force to combat terrorism in with The growth of terrorism—we understand our country. Sir, there is no doubt about it that that; you are taking some measures against for the last four or five years we have had too terrorists—but on the other, whenever you much of terrorism. Hundreds of people have been want you go hand in glove "with some such killed in Punjab in the name of religion and forces. For example, in Tripura you are still thousands have been injured in aros.:-n, looting having an alliance with the Tripura Upajati and sabotage. These terrorists are indulging in all Yuva Samithi who are shielding another sorts of anti-national activities and it is high time terrorist organisation, the TNV. For your we had a special force to contain those terrorist political advantage, in Tripura you are going elements in our country. And that is why I say I with a mass organisation of a terrorist welcome this measure which is going to create a organisation. .. special force, a regular force to combat terrorism SHRI DEBA PRASAD RAY (West in our country. Our own former Prime Minister, Bengal): Sir, on a point of order. He is Mrs. Indira Gandhi has lost her life because of misleading the House by telling wrong things. these terrorists. And we know that these terrorists In Tripura, the terrorist forces, the TNV are are being helped not ! only by people in our own being patronised by the CPM. (.Interruptions) country but by people in other countries as well A Minister has got converted all the terrorists and by our neighbouring countries especially and got them included in the Sangram who are providing them with training, arms, Parishad in Tripura. He is misleading the ammunition and finances and almost all the House. wherewithal that is required by them. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It is an Sir, although we have a number of para- opinion, not a point of order. military forces already in our country like the C.R.P.F., the or like the SHRI M. A, BABY: This is the first time I Indo-Tibe-tah Border Police or like the Assam hear him. I know that Mr. D. P. Ray is Rifles, but all these forces were created for capable of cracking such jokes in this Elders certain specific purposes. For example, the BSF House I just consider that as a joke. Sir, this is is to be deployed on the border, the job of this where the efforts of the Central Congress (I) force is border security and not specially for leadership and the Cabinet failed. So my containing "terrorism. Similar Is the case with request is that rather than coming forward the Assam Rifles. Similarly the Indo-Tibetan with such eye-wash measures you should Border Police is not for containing terrorism. But have the political will to fight terrorism, you for containing terrorism as it is on the bor-' der should have the determination to fight terro- and inside the country wherever rism and there we will support you and so long as you fail to do your duties, so long as you fail to deliver the goods, we are forced to oppose this. And do not take this opportunity to acquire more and more powers In 137 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 138 there is terrorism we very badly need a try for the last two years, and as has been specialised force and that is why 1 say it is a mentioned in the penultimate section of this very welcome measure that the Government legislation, all those National Security Guards now proposes to raise, a special force to which are there, will be deemed to have been combat terrorism in our country. These created under this enactment. They are there terrorists are already involved in secessionist but they are not a regular force. Now, demands, secessionist activities and they are hereafter once we pass this Bill, we will be raising the demands for Khalistan and it is no having a regular force to deal with this patriotic citizen of this country who would problem. ever try to or who would ever like to have any part of our country gone from the rest, As I said, if we really want to have efficient eliminated from the rest. And the question is service from these Guards, there must not be how to control these .secessionist activities any room for any kind of dissatisfaction which are being abetted, as my friend was amongst them. They should not suffer for any saying by other forces, by other countries. dissatisfaction because of their pay or wages This can be done only by a regular force or service conditions or living conditions. On meant for the purpose and that is how we can all these fronts, we have to ensure that these perhaps contain this menace of terrorism. Our Guards and also the officers do not have any Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi has already sense of dissatisfaction. Their service rules said more than once, even day before yes- should be framed as early as possible. I know terday, while addressing the Youth Congress even in a force like the RAW, there has been, Convention, that this terrorism cannot be dealt and there is, dissatisfaction; even in your BSF with, cannot be dispensed with so easily there is some amount of dissatisfaction, not within a short time. Very patiently we have to only among the lower ranks but even among deal with them and also very efficiently. And the very senior people, the IPS officers and if we have to deal with them efficiently, then non IPS officers there is dissatisfaction. Quite naturally very efficient people must be there to a few of the BSF people have met me during do the job. They must be trained well and the last one or two days and they have told me equipped well and only then we can expect that even in matters of pay scales, in the proper returns from them. That is why, as I matter of new pay scales that are proposed to said, it is indeed very good that a separate be granted, there is a strong resentment force is going to be raised for the purpose and amongst the IPS and non-IPS people who are as my predecessor was saying in the equval-ent to them for all practical purposes. beginning that so many forces have been So, this kind of discrimination should not be raised for specific purposes but they were there so that there is no heart-burning and misused or abused for certain other purposes; there is no sense of dissatisfaction amongst well, as far as I know, this force is meant only the personnel of these National Security to contain terrorism and to combat terrorism. Guards. Therefore, it is not a force which can be deployed like the CRPF or the BSF or any As regards the different provisions. in section other force anywhere in the country. It has to 7 it is mentioned that no member of the Security he deployed only where there is terroism, Guards shall be at liberty to resign his where terrorists are there and where we have appointment during the term of his engagement. I the real problem created by them. do not know what is actually meant by the words 'term of engagement', whether service conditions, Of course, we already have the conditions of recruitment etc. 'Term of engage- "National Security Guards in our coun- ment' is a very wrong phrase that has been vised. It means that their ' term is something like tempo- 139 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 140

[Shri P. N. Sukul] them trade union rights does not arise. But what about the right to associate?, It is in fact, rary but if it is going to be a regular force, a fundamental right. This is available to every then proper service conditions will have to be citizen in this country, whether he is in such a there. You could have said 'term of force or in the army or anywhere else. For appointment' 'or term of recruitment' instead their own good, not for any political purposes of 'term of his engagement'. It should not be or for any ulterior motives, they should have there. Now, you are not going to allow any- this right. This right of association you have body to resign. Under the Act, you do not already granted to policemen. They can have want anybody to desert also. But you can associations. But they do not have the right to dismiss him aU right. Under section 7, he strike. They do not have trade union rights. In cannot resign. But under section 9, he can be the same way, here, you need not give them dismissed. Now, due to certain reasons, due to trade union rights. But they should have a certain considerations, there is a soldier of the forum where they can sit together, discuss force who does not want to continue as such, their common problems. They should be who wants to leave the force, may be because allowed to have a forum through which they of some domestic problems or because of can ventilate their grievances so that you will some other considerations and if you do not be able to know their problems and their allow him to resign, what will happen? He grievances and you can set them right. By will be there, but he would not work. He this, you will be able to create an atmosphere would not put his heart and soul into his job. in which, they will not be having any sense of At times, he may also be frustrated and he dissatisfaction. Therefore, I Would request the may think of deserting the force. Therefore, hon. Minister that the right to have an you will be in a way compelling him to desert association should be given. Of course, this the force, not to resign honourably, not to quit right should be shorn of all trade union rights. his job honourably. You will be creating a They should not be allowed the right of situation where he will be forced to resort to collective bargaining where they can resort to certain crimes as mentioned in the Bill. direct action. But for submitting memoranda, Therefore, I would suggest that this unhappy for submitting petitions or for drawing your situation should be avoided and any person attention to their common problems, they who wants to resign, for some genuine should have a forum. If you are not going to reasons, should be allowed to resign and you allow them to have a forum, they will be should accept the resignation. What is wrong? indulging in so many other activities which Instead of taking a series of actions against the RAW men indulge in or some other men him, instead of making him commit so many indulge in. If they have no way out, what can crimes under the Act, it is better to let him they do? Therefore, it is better to avoid certain 30. things which may not be liked by the administration and which may not be Now, Sir, in section 12, so many desirable in the larger interests of the country. restrictions are being imposed. It i3 all right. I would very humbly plead that the right of In the case of such forces restrictions have to association should be granted to them. be imposed. They cannot be irresponsible to their job. Thev cannot be irresponsible to Otherwise, bad blood may be created. their country. Therefore, these restrictions have to be there, restrictions in regard to In the same section, it has been mentioned political association and so on. But here, it is that if any question arises as to whether any mentioned that they will not be allowed even society, institution, to have an association. Of course, in the case of such forces the question of granting 141 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 142 association or organisation is of a purely what happens, officers are in league with! each social, recreational or religious nature under other, they have very great consideration for clause (b) of this subsection, the decision each other. Even if there is a complaint of the Central Government thereon shall against an IAS officer, this is my experience, be final. Now you allow him certain another IAS officer will try to support and things and then you say that you alone will protect him. So, officers become one and then judge it whether is proper or not This the poor man of a lower rank has to suffer at i% think, too much. The interpretation of law the hands of the officers. A way must be must be left to a court of law. You can make found out to ensure proper justice in the case law, yon can frame law, but jf you are going of those who are going to deal with terro-rists to take over the responsibility of interpreting and who are going to act keeping their lives law then I think you are making an always in their hands. encroachment, making an inroad into the jurisdiction of the judiciary. It should always be left to a court of law to interpret Coming to offences mentioned in Chapter whether these actions are right or wrong III. I have nothing to add to articles 15, 16, under the law. etc. because these personnel, these guards must be dutiful, must be obedient, must not indulge in insubordination, must do their job Then, you also say that they cannot hold well, and, therefore, there cannot be any any demostration under this article. Very objection to action being taken as recently, you judicial officers were r contemplated in this piece of legislation for demonstrating, parading the street of New the commission of certain offences mentioned Delhi. Engineers have demonstrated. Your in these clauses. Judges have demonstrated. Why can't they demonstrate peacefully? They should be allowed the right to demonstrate peacefully But, Sir, there is discrimination being for their own collective demands, for their allowed between officers and the guards. In own good. I don't think, such an eventuality clause 21(1) it is mentioned that in the case will arise, such a situation will arise when of disobedience to superior officers, a guards they will be forced to do it. If you are going to can suffer imprisonment for a term extending keep them, well, keep their minimum needs to 14 years. Up to 14 years he can be satisfied, such a situation may not arise, but sentenced to imprisonment but in clause 24 then this right to peaceful demonstration an officer can be imprisoned only for a should be alfowed. It is also a fundamental maximum period of 7 years. For the same right. In so many cases the Supreme Court has offence, you are providing 7 years said so. So, in the case of these people if you imprisonment to an officer and 14 years are going to deny them this right, it is not imprisonment to a guard. You are not fair in proper. such matters. For the same offence, there should not be any discrimination between In clause 13(3) it is said; officers and lower ranks.

"Every officer receiving any such SHR1 MOSTAFA BIN QUASEM (); So many anomalies! complaint shall make as complete an investigation into it as may be possible for giving full redress to the complainant: or SHRI P. N. SUKUL: This provision is when necessary, refer the complaint to a discriminatory. This is what I am saying: and superior authority." it should not be allowed to be there because when it comes before Parliament, Parliament must serm it as minutely as possible and try to This is by way of a remedy to aggrieved advise the Government to improve upon it, persons. Now if a guard has been maltreated where necessary. Otherwise it is a very good by an officer and if he makes a complaint piec- of legislation; but for these slight against that officer, generally anomalies, it is a welcome measure no doubt. 143 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 144

[Shri P. N. Sukal] SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Thank God. In Chapter VII, you have made provision SHRI DARBARA SINGH (Punjab): You for Special Courts to try these special men. are very fortunate. But under this Chapter—I have gone through it hurriedly—I have not found anywhere a SHRI K. G. MAHESWARAPPA; It is provision for a man who is being prosecuted ruled by Janata Party Government. to take the help of a pleader or an advocate. Nowhere it is allowed. That is a basic SHRI DARBARA SINGH.- Where? fundamental right. Every man who is prosecuted under the law of the land must be SHRI, K. G. MAHESWARAPPA: In allowed access to legal advice. He cannot , for your information, However I interpret law; he is not an expert in matters of have got some reservations about the bill. But law. You must allow him the services of a I am, at the same time, inclined to support the legal expert, of a pleader or an advocate, as Bill. As my learned friend. Mr. Baby pointed the case may be. out, the provisions are likely to be abused. It is Again. Sir, I will come to Section 115, not merely intended to combat terrorism, but it Chapter IX, where it is said that for certain will invade the States' powers on the law and offences even death penalty can be inflicted order situation. Section 4(1), as has already upon the man. You can sentence him to death, been pointed out, reads: but here, there is no provision for a mercy petition. Even in cases where people commit "There shall be an armed force of the multiple murders, they can have access to the Union called the National Security Guard President through a mercy petition. for combating terrorist activities..."

SHRI JAGESH DESAI (Maharashtra): It If it had stopped at that, it would have is court martial. been something. Further it reads:

SHRI P. N. SUKUL; There is no court "... with a view to protect States against martial here; it is a Special Court. So I internal disturbances." request the hon. Minister that a provision for Under the guise of protecting internal submission of mercy petition to the President disturbances, the provisions of this Act may should also be there. be abused. And, as I said, service rules for these people I may point out that there is no provision in must be framed as early a possible, and if s the Act. saying under what circumstances this possible, these should also be brought force, the Security Guards, will be deployed before Parliament for consideration. in the States, whether it will be on the asking by the Government of the State or it will be With these words, I support the Bill. with their concurrents that this deployment of SHRI NIRMAL CHATTERJEE; With, this Guard will be made in any State. these words, you are supporting the Bill! All languages, including English, carry some Why I am inclined to support this Bill is meaning. That is what I am, trying to only because there is already the Security understand. Guard in existence. That force was constituted in the year 1984 by an executive order. This SHRI K. G. MAHESWARAPPA (Kar- Bill is only to give legislative sanction and to nataka): Mr. Deputy Chairman, Sir, the Bill provide more teeth; to that organisation, that is intended to constitute an armed force of specialised army, that specialised para-militia the Union to combat terrorism. If I may say, to deal with the terrorist activities in the so, 1 come from a State where there is no particular bor- terrorist activity. 145 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 146 der areas. If it had been confined particularly So far as the other provisions are con- to those areas where terrorist activities are cerned, they have actually been borrowed rampant, then, there would have been some from other Acts like the Army Act, the CRPF meaning. But this can be deployed in any act Or the BSF Act, the Central Industrial State, anywhere in this country, whether the Security Force Act and the Disturbed area State has asked for it or not asked for it. (Special Courts) Act. Verbatim most of the That is one thing. provisions have been adopted from those Acts. In the entire Bill containing 140 clauses, Secondly, regarding recruitment there is there is nothing to indicate as to the nature of no provision in the Bill. Clause 4(2) of the the functions of these security guards. Under Bill reads: clause 6, the provision relating to their service is indicated in one sentence. It reads like this: "Subject to the provisions of this Act, the Security Guard shall be constituted in "Every member of the Security Guard such manner as may be prescribed..." shall be liable to serve in any part of I think th» hon. Minister may say that as well as outside India." provision about recruitment and qualification required for this para militia will be made Except that, the nature of their service has under the rules that may be framed. We should not been indicated anywhere. I also' do not not give rule-making power on such vital understand what is their work outside India. matter to the Government. Some indication SHRI IAGESH DESAI; If you go should have been made in the Act itself about outside, then he will accompany you. the minimum qualification, training, recruitment etc. On the «thet hand, there SHRI KG. MAHESWARAPPA; He arc provisions with regard to the conditions will be fortunate to accompany, but sitting in of service which are also subjects to be made the Opposition I don't think I can go outside. under the rules, and there are elaborate So, the question is how can the Security provisions made regarding service conditions Guard have service outside India? and disciplinary action to be taken against the Security Guards. But, so far as recruit- There are other lacunae in this Bill. The ment is concerned, there is no specific pro- purpose for which it is intended has not been vision anywhere in this Bill on how to very clearly laid down. In fact, as I submitted recruit, hov7 you are going to recruit this in earlier part of my speech, I am inclined to important, very specialised armed force. support this Bill because there is a public Therefore, there Is a severe lacuna in the Bill opinion that whatever measure the itself. There is no provision about the Government takes to combat terrorism is qualification, minimum qualification and the welcome. Therefore, I do not want to say nature of recruitment. Even in regard to the anything against that. I welcome the Prime service conditions provisions have been made Minister's statement made on the rampart of in the Bill itself, though they can be made in the that we are going to put down terrorism in this country. All of us in the the rules. Sub-section (2) reads: Opposition are one with the Prime Minister "... .as may be prescribed and the and the Union Government to put down conditions of service of the members of terrorism, whether it exists. But by fhis Statute the Security Guard shall be such as may be you are creating one more para-military force. prescribed." There are already five or six such organisations. The point is where is the Though it has been mentioned in subclause coordination between the one and the other? (2) of clause 4 that the conditions of service When it is deployed in any State, would there are subject matters of rule-making power, still be any coordination with the provisions have been made in the Bill itself regarding the service .(Conditions, punishments and so on. 147 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 148

[Shri K. G. Maheswarappa] It seems to me that this Bill is a patchwork, a kind of quilt, made out of provisions State Police? There is no provision to borrowed from the Army Act and the laws indicate how there will be a coordinated relating to the CRPF, the BSF and other para- functioning with other police force. military organisations. While doing ^o, the If it is a very specialised force, this also authors of this Bill i'i to have overlooked the need for a clause must be indicated in the Bill. Even while to deal with enrolment. For instance in the making rules, international and army ex Army Act, clauses 13 and 14 clearly mention perts may be consulted. In fact, the how the personnel are to be recruited and what terrorists are being trained in America and is going to be the test for admission, etc. in other parts of the world. There are Similarly, clause 6 f the Border Security schools training terrorism. Therefore, 0 to Force Act details the mode of enrolment to the there must be a sophisticated training given paramilitary orgainsation. But clause 4 of this them through experts s0 that theu can Bill does not serve the purpose. Unless there effectively discharge their work. Highly is a specific provision for the purpose, it will qualified experts in the field should be be for the Government to make ru'cs for recruited for the purpose. It is not necessary recruitment and related purposes. Secondly, to recruit unemployed and uneducated when a comprehensive measure is being personnel not knowing even how to use enacted, why should there be a lacuna in sophisticated weapons. Government should respect of an operational matter? be very careful while framing rules for recruiting such a specialised Security Guard Similarly, as has been pointed out already by Force. our colleagues in the other House the title 'o section 15 of the Bill is wrongly worded. With these qualified reservations I support There is no need for the words "and the Bill. punishment with death" in the title. It seems to be an example of mechanical copying from SHRI PRABHAKAR RAO KALVALA other laws without caring for the thought. The () Sir. I rise to support this : wording of section 15 is too wide to allow Bill, but there are certain things which I misuse. Expressions lik "shamefully abandons would like to get clarified. e his place of duty" can be subject to misuse and The purpose of this Bill is to formalise the misscarriage of justice. The provision National Security Guard which has been in should be specific so that dereliction of duty by existence since 1984. It was established by an the members of this force can be dealt with executive Order and a recrurring expenditure firmly without leading to harassment of the is being incurred On it. Now, it is claimed that personnel. There is no dearth 0f a comprehensive Bill is being brought forward establishments to safeguard internal security t0 replace the Executive Order. But, how com- and put down terrorist and other activities. prehensive is t'his Bill? Clause 4 of this Bill We have alreadv five such forces, says that there shall be an armed force unit namely. CRPF. BSF. CISF, the Assam called the National Security Guard for Rifles and the Indo-Tibetaan Border police. combatting terrorist activities with a view to Now we are adding another to the list. protecting State against internal disturbance. Would it not have been better to develop one of According fa> Clause 140, the National the existing esta-l-'ihments into a specialised Security Guard in existence shall be deemed anti-torror'sts* force with adequate training to be a security guard constituted under this and proper equipment? Is it necessary to Act. It is also to be deemed to have been ap- creab another oro-ariisation for the purposg pointed under this Act. with a 'big establishment and infrastructure? Co-' ord'nation anions? the different But what about recruitment to the force organisa-'tion will be a d'fftcu't task, from time to time? There is no provision in Tf such coordination is not available then the Bill'to deal with enrolment to the force. tho 149 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 150 purpose of fighting the terrorists will be SHRI NIRMAL CHATTERJEE (West defeated. Bengal): There is no urgency at all. We do not want to sit after six of the clock. (Interruptions).

We are definitely against terrorists and MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The decision terrorism. We want it to be rooted cut. was.... (Interruptions) There is no doubt about it. We support trie object of this Bill. But my point is SHRI NIRMAL CHATTERJEE: AH whether this force that is being created and whether this law that is being enacted kinds of decisions are iniflcted on us. for he purpose will serve any . purpose. Wiener th:y are necessary at all with MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; In the such a top-heavy establishment consisting morning when the leaders of the parties met of a Director-General, an Additional Dir in the Chamber of the Chairman, we ector-General, an Inspector-General, a discussed and I was also present there. Deputy Inspector General, a group Com (Interruption). mander, a Squadron Commande and so r SHRI DIPEN GHOSH (West Bengal) Did on. Do we need such a big hierarchy to fight terrorism? The terrorists in Punjab you discuss it? Nothing was discussed. I was there. (Interruptions). are said to number not more than a few hundred or at the most a few thousands. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; So, I There is thus no danger of their overcom ing the security forces' by the strength of think, we will continue the discussion. their numbers. Similarly, in spit^ of (Interruptions). the large-scale smuggling of arms from out side the country, their equipment is not SHRI K. MOHANAN (Kerala): The superior. So what is needed to counter Government is conducting this House at its them is an efficient system of intelligence whims and fancies. They bring } a Bill in the morning and they wan*, to pass it in the which will keep the authorities informed evening. We cannot cooperate with them. about their acivities and composition to catch them before they strike. SHRI NIRMAL CHATTERJEE: There is W e also a show in the Central Hall. have several intelligence organi-6.00 P.M SHRI K. MOHANAN: No, that is not the sation costing millions of rupees. But they point. The Sales Promotion Bill was discussed have not been able to prevent the and discussion was concluded. Even then the terrorists from doing whatever they threaten to Minister was not prepared to reply and pass do. The assassination of the former Chief of that Bill because it is beneficial to the poor Army Staff, General Vaidya is the latest emploees. (Interruptions) We are not prepared example of failure of our intelligence. So to cooperate with the Government. unless vou remove this lapse creation of new force by itself will not solve the problem of MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; In the terrorism. Business Advisory Committee we took the decision that ordinarily, the House will sit up Fin'ally, it should be made clear by the to O'clock and if necessary, beyond 6 P.M. Government that this force will not be de- and today, there .are only two-three speakers ploved in a State without the express consent more and there is nothing to be panicky about of the concerned State Government. Actually the whole thing (Interruptions) the concerned State should ask for the service of the force. Such a precaution is very SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Sir, the question is: necessary to avoid complications in the when the Minister of State for Parliamentary implementation of the law. The Home Affairs refers to today's meeting, in that Minister should give categorical assurance that meeting, I was also present the force will not be used by the Centre unilaterally.

SHRI KATLASH PATI MTSHRA (Bihar).... (Interruptions) 151 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 152

[Shri Dipen Ghosh] It was not discussed that the National Security Guard Bill, 1986 h% to be completed today. The subject which was discussed was whether the Dowry Prohibition (Amendment) Bill, 1986 could be taken up today or not. Mr. Parliamentary Affairs Minister, are you aware of that thing?

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AF- FAIRS (SHRI SITARAM KESRI); Yes. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Then, you must not mislead the House. SHRI SITARAM KESRI; I am not mis- leading.

SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: The whole question which we discussed today in the morning was whether the Dowry Prohibition Bin would be taken up today or not. This question was not there whether we would sit late, discuss and dispose of the National Security Guard Bill. We have a day tomorrow and there is Httle business to be transacted. Then what is the difficulty in keeping it over for tomorrow? MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I am sorry. Mr. Kailash Pati Mishra. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: In that case, we have to walk out in protest. SHRI K. MOHANAN:* SHRI DIPEN GHOSH;*

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Nothing of this will go on record.

[At this stage, some hon. Members left the Chamber"].

153 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 154

155 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 156

MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Gurudas Das Gupta.

SHRI GURUDAS DAS GUPTA (West Bengal); Sir. 1 rise not to support the Bill because this Bill is dubious, because this Bill is ambiguous and because this BiW is only a sign of the overpossessiveness of the Central Government for more ad-minirrative powers in the name of fighting terrorism and terrorist activities. Therefore, I stand not to support the Bill and to me the introduction of the Bill is an ominous sign too.

Sir, something has been deliberately said and something has been deliberately not said in order to stretch out the use of the powers that shall vest with the Government after the passage of the Bill- Ia the preamble, the words "internal disturbances" have been mentioned. But what does internal disturbance mean? Internal disturbances may mean communal riots; internal disturbances may mean strikes by industrial workers; and internal disturbances may mean any damocratic movement fighting against the reactionary policy of the Government in power. Therefore^ 'n the name of curbing internal disturbances, this Gurad, this new army in the name of Guard, can be made use of. Therefore, this is ambiguous aaain. To give another example of something that' has not been deliberately said: It is not known whether it is necessary to get the consent of the State where you want to make use of this Guard, whether you can unilatrally send this Guard to a particular part of the country without the State Government asking for it or -whether you require consent before sending the 157 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 158

Guard there. It is ambiguous and it has and the Bill has come to us in 1986 to regulate deliberately been made ambiguous so that the its formulation and actions. I find from the Government can use the power which it would Financial Memorandum that Rs. 3.86 crores be armed with after the passage of the Bill. It is has been spent in 1985-86. I would like to being said that the Guard can take part in know from the hon. Minister, what is the action in foreign territories. What does it strength of the force at the moment and what mean? While pursuing the terrorists, it can is *he proposed expansion after the cross the border. That i,3 one thing. Somebody promulgation of this Bill? says that the Government can make use of the foreign guards in order to fight disturbances on the soil of a foreign embassy-But nothing The second point that I have to make is is clear. Therefore, before we can extend our with regard to the constitution of (he Guard. support to the Bill, I feel that it i§ essential Clause 4, sub-clause (2) says: that the ambiguities are cleared. That is, that which has not been deliberately said should be "Subject to the provisions of this Act, the stated and the provision of the Bill should be Security Guard shall be constituted in such made clear. manner as may be prescribed and the conditions of service of the members of the Therefore Sir, this Bill, according to Security Guard shall be such as may be my party, is not necessary at the moment, prescribed." because they have multiple Central agen cies to fight the disturbances. You have the CRP and many more like that. Sir, In other words, it is the Government of may I ask the Government: what more India alone which is empowered to select the does the Government need to fight terro personnel of the National Security Guard. I rism, or in the name of fighting terrorism remember, Sir, that in this House three years bow much more power does the Govern ago there was a question of a riot force being ment need to assume itself of? Therefore, constituted and the then hon. Prime Minister. Sir, it is a question of multiplicity. Multi Shrimati Indira Gandhi, had stated very ple agencies are being created. And of categorically that while this force would be course there is the danger that formulated, each minority community will be fliere will be lack of coordina given due representation. I would like to ask tion among multiple agencies. the Minister whether mis criterion will be You are forming Special Courts for Ihem. taken int0 consideration while forming this It is almost Iike military or semi-military. force of the National Security Guard so that Therefore, how many Central agencies, how the minorities feel that the force will not be much more or additional power does ihe partisan. government need to fight the situation which they speak of in the Preamble? The third point that i want to raise is, while recruiting this force, has if been Sir, this Bill, t° my understanding, there- taken into consideration that the people fore, is indicative of the trend of assumption of all the States and regions will be recrui of excessive powers in the name of fighting ted, and whether backward State-, like terrorism. If you speak of terrorism and, we ' and Kasbmir will also get repre are second to none. But in the name of sentation in th National Secnty Guuard? fighting that trend of terrorism if you assume e I want this question also to be answered. excessive powets, •that of course is ominous. Sir. we have got a lot of complaints in Therefore, I do not rise to support the Bill. this; House also about the way in which the PAC deals with the cases of riots. T SHRI GHULAM RASOOL MATTO feel that the present force is being con 0ammu and Kashmir): Sir, the National stituted to combat such a tendency. If Security Guard was inaugurated in 1984 that is so, then the orientation of this force shouM be in such a way from the " very beginning that 159 The National Security Guard [RAJYA SABHA] Bill, 1986 160 Shri Ghulam Rasool Matto] it should be such that it will not be partisan and really a secular force consisting 0f all the we will really be proud of it lik the Army? communities and regions as in the case of e Army so 'hat the people may have confidence My last point is with regard to the point in it and feel that this is the real force which is raised by Mr. Sukul. I agree with hini that in their interest. Will the hon. Minister ensure there is dismissal, but there is no provision for that this thing will be done and the re- resignation. If you dont want a person and presentation will be from all the communi- you want to get rid ot him, it is proper that you ties? have a provision for resignation. I would like to now how the interests of this Force are There is Clause No. 20. It bars the going to be safeguarded so far as their service officers from communicating with the conditions are concerned. press Or publishing any book or letter except where such communbation or publication is in the bona fide discharge of his duties or is of a purely literary or scientific character or nature. it clearly states that the officers are barred from publishing any book or article in any newspaper. I know cases where officers come out with books of this nature only after three or four years of their retirement. Mr. B. N. Malik has talked about certain secrets in this book. T would request the hon. Minister to ensure that this ban on publication Or communication shall apply to the officers who retired from this force. SHRI DARBARA SINGH (Punjab): sir. I I have witnessed a particular tendency in have not much to speak on the subject. 1 would like to say only this much for the time Punjab. The people there want C.R.P. instead of the local force. Why do they want it? I being that the present existing Forces which asked some of them. They aid that th local are working in certain State* should also be s e trained with modern equipment. The present police was partisan to one community or the other. So, they wanted the other force which Force will come into being after some time. shall not be partisan. What happened in Katra But the Force* which are already working in Dhnlu and other places in ... different States must also be given modern weaponry so that they may be able to keep off SHRI DARBARA SINGH: It is in fact for that. the terrorists... SHRI GHULAM RASOOL MATTO: SHRI GHULAM RASOOL MATTO: That Give secular training, is exactly what I want. I want an assurance from the Minister. What has actually SHRI DARBARA SINGH; Unless you give happened is that one community wanted the them training, how can they handle a Central Reserve Police to be there. But when machine-gun. New weapons are coming up. the Central Reseive Police is there, that They must be properly trained so that they central force also tended to be partisan. That may be able to keep up the vigilance on the is my point. It also tended to be partisan. I border \«7 much. Here some Members have want to ask the hon. Minister how he is going said that this is not needed. This Force it to ensure that this police force shall not be needed most because of the fact that it will be partisan and shall be like the Army. We are trained for a specific purpose where the proud of our Army. The Army has not present Forces are not able to act. So, they indulged in such things. Will ha assure us that will be semi-military, they will be like- the National Security Guard that he is military... proposing to constitute will b« †[]Transliteratton in Arabic script. 161 The National Security Guard [21 AUG. 1986] Bill, 1986 162

SHRI GURUDAs DAS GUPTA: But ' an elite commando force specially equipp not military. ed and trained with modem SHRI DARBARA SINGH: Why should it weapons and specially trained to be military? It is a police force to iguard deal with terrorists who are equipped with sophisticated weapons and certain areas. What happened in Punjab has been stated by somebody here. Because of the are receiving combat training to carry cut fact that. terrorism could not be contained, these operations. I think this part should this ne

SHRI GURUDAS DAS GUPTA; If it is so, ment.' It means that the person is not going to why it has not been made explicitly clear in be in this force permanently. He will be there the body of the Bill. It is only a verbal on deputation for a particular period, say five assurance that the Minister is kind enough to years or three years or two years, and that give. But if the intention is clear why is it not particular period will be taken as his term of made explicitly clear in the body of the Bill engagement. So, during that period he will not itself. be allowed to resign. So, it is not something permanent. After serving for a particular SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, this is period, he will have to go back to his parent not a verbal assurance. Sir, if everything were organisation. We are not keeping them in this to be provided in the Bill where was the need force permanently because we want to have o' my replying to you then. Then, Sir, there this force of youth profile and we would not 'are some rules going to be provided and like to have very old or middle-aged people in whatever shortcomings are there, they will be this armed force because it will be very covered in the Rules, while framing the rules. difficult for them t0 combat terrorists. So, just (Interruptions) to keep the youth profile in this force, we have provided that they will be there only for Sir, Mr. M. A. Baby has mentioned a short period and after that, they will Fo back about the deployment of the forces. 1 to their parent organisation and will be have already cleared that. Deployment of replaced by new faces drawn from the army, force from the Centre will be only at from the CRPF and BSF etc. the request of the State Government and with the consent of the State Government. SHRI MUKHTTAR SINGH MALIK We are not going to have any overriding (); What about officers'' power or we are not going to thrust this force upon the State Government. The SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD; It is hon. Member also mentioned that they for all. Officers in the age group of 30 to 35 should be allowed participation in politi cal activities. I am afraid we cannot al eyars will not be difficult to get and we want personnel who are in their mid-thirties. As far low them. This is not a CPKM) party where we can allow even the police force. as the officers are concerned, sometimes, it is difficult to have . top ranking officers, in the This is an armed force where we cannot allow an armed force to take part in mid-thirties. Of course^ in the case of political activities. Then he mentioned about officers, there is a little latitude, but not that some religious association etc. This is a much latitude as in the case of other misconception. We have not provided for any paramilitary forces. Hindu association or Muslim association or any such thing. Association means only the AN HON. MEMBER: Ideas are very social association. Then he mentioned about clear. deployment o* force, which I have already answered. SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Hon. Member, Shri Sukul, mentioned about the right of association. I do not think, this is I am thankful to Mr. Sukul for supporting such a force wher we can have any type of it. He said that there should no dissatisfaction e association. This may create a lot of problems among the personnel and the officers of this force. Wc have already made that provision. in regard to discipline etc. They will be given extra allowance, like deployment allowance and they will be given He has mentioned about demonstration. I some other facilities also and I am sure there have already mentioned tint this is going to be an extra-disciplined force and. therefore there will be no scope for any discontentment or dissatisfaction as far as the pay and other should not be any scope for any emoluments are concerned. Mr. Sukul demonstration. He has raised one very relevant point. He hag asked referred t0 section 7 and wanted to know the meaning of the 'term of engage- 165 The National Security Guard L 21 AUG. 1986 ] Bill, 1986 166

why the punishment should be seven years in has also mentioned that there is no co- the case of personnel and 14 years in the case ordination between different para-miJiiary of officers. forces. 1 would like to poim out that in Punjab there is very close co-ordination SHRI P. N. SUKUL: It is vies versa. between the BSF, the CRPF and the S:ate Police. The Director General of Ponce is also SHRl GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sorry. It is Additional Director General of CRPF and fourteen years in the case of personnel and BSF. I do not think there can be any better seven years in the case of offi" cers. I would coordination than this. like to make it clear. Section 21 deals with MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I think the disobedience. The offence of disobedience of Minister can now thank the House for their orders of a senior officer or misconduct has to support to the Bill. be treated as a grave offence because obeying the orders of the superior is the foundation of SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: 1 can discipline. Otherwise, it will not be possible to thank them but, Sir, Mr. Matto mentioned combat terrorists. What will happen if a senior about the strength of the force. I do not think officer issues an order to a junior officer and it is proper to give details of the strength of he does not obey that order? This is the force, whether of the existing force or o disobedience and this is a serious ch'arge- the future strength. 1 am sorry, he will agree against the person concerned. It cannot be with me that it is not proper to reveal this. taken easily. That is why, a punishment of fourteen years has been prov'ded. In the case He also mentioned about giving re- of ill treatment of a junior officer by a senior presentation to the States, to the minorities, officer, I do not think, it is such a heinous etc. We will definitely take due care to see that offence compared with disobedience. all sections of the community and all the States of the Union are given representation. Shri Sukul has mentioned about the pro vision for pardon. He also said that With this I once again thank all the there should be a provision for legal help Members of Parliament from both the sides of after a case goes before the National Secu this House for having taken active part in this rity Guard Court. This will be provided debate, and I request that the Bill be passed. fr>r in the rules. Then he mentioned about mercy petition. As I have said MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now 1 will already, this is on par with the Army. put Mr. Mohanan's amendment to vote. Some hon. Member said that this Bi'l is a copy of the Army Act and the BSF Act. It is The question is: true, the Armv, the BSF and the CRPF Acts have been kept in mind while framing the "That the Bill to provide for the provisions of this Bill. This Bill is based on constitution and regulation of an armed the provisons of these Acts. force of the Union for combating terrorist activities with a view to protecting States, Shr K. G. Maheswarappa asked why against internal disturbances and for mat- should the force be sent outside the country. I ters connected therewith be referred to a would like to make it clear that we are not Select Committee of the Rajya Sabha sending this force to any other part of the consisting of the following members, world. This is only intended to combat namely: — terrorism in the case of hijacking. When a plane is hijacked to some other country, if 1. Mis s layalalitha Jayaram they need our help, only in that case, this force will be sent outside the counry and not 2. Dr. (Shrimati) Sarojini Mahishi otherwise. He 167 Message jrom [RAJYASABHA] Lok Sabha 168

[Mr. Deputy Chairman] 3f. Shrimati Kenuka Chowdhury The question was put and the mo- tion was adopted. 4. Shri V. Gopalsamy 5. Shri Chitta Basu 6. Shri N. E. Balaram

7. Shri! Atal Bihari Vajpayee MESSAGE FROM THE LOK SABHA 8. Shri Nirmal Chatterjee The Taxation Laws (Amendment and 9. Shri Mostafa Bin Quasem 10. Shri Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 19«*6 K. Mohanan SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir, I have to With instructions to report by the report to the House the following message first day of the next Session." received from the Lok Sabha) signed by the The motion was negatived. Secretary-GeneN ral of the Lok Sabha: MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will "In accordance with the provisions of now put the motion. rule 96 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha, I am The question is: directed to enclose The Taxation Laws "That the Bill to provide for the (Amendment and Miscellaneous constitution and regulation of an armed Provisions) Bill, 1986, as passed by Lok force of the Union for combating Sabha at its sitting held on the 21st August, terrorist activities with a view to 1986. protecting States against internal disturbances and for matters connected 2. The Speaker has certified that this Bill therewith, as passed by the Lok Sabha, is a Money Bill within the meaning of article be taken into consideration." 110 of the ." The motion was adopted. Sir, I lay a coy of the Bill on the Table. MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Now we shall take up clause by clause consideration MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: The House of the Bill. stands adjourned till 11.00 a.m. tomorrow.

Clauses 2 to 140 were added to the Bill The House then adjourned at Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the fifty-four minutes past six of the Title were added to the Bill. clock, till eleven of the clock, on Friday, the 22nd August, 1986. SHRI GHULAM NABI AZAD: Sir, I move: "That the Bill be passed."