E PL UR UM IB N U U S Congressional Record United States th of America PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE 104 CONGRESS, SECOND SESSION

Vol. 142 WASHINGTON, WEDNESDAY, JUNE 26, 1996 No. 96—Part II House of Representatives

DEPARTMENTS OF VETERANS AF- when we passed the conference com- block grants. It will affect the $50,000 FAIRS AND HOUSING AND URBAN mittee report on the budget because in travel budget for the VA Secretary. DEVELOPMENT, AND INDEPEND- that budget, we reneged on a promise And it will affect up to $15 million for ENT AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS that we made last year and we in- the EPA employee bonus program. ACT, 1997 creased spending by about $4.1 billion Finally, it will affect, although a pre- (Continued) over what we had agreed to spend in vious amendment may have changed last year’s budget resolution. this, the $365 million for AmeriCorps. AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. GUTKNECHT Back in November 1994, the people of So it will have some impact. Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I the United States I think sent a pretty Mr. Chairman, what we are really offer an amendment. clear message. They wanted us to put talking about is less than 2 cents. It is The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- the Federal Government on a diet. ignate the amendment. They wanted us to balance their budg- about keeping our faith with the Amer- The text of the amendment is as fol- et. I think, by backtracking on some of ican people, set about keeping the lows: the commitments we made last year, promise we made just 1 year ago and we made a serious mistake and not the promise that many of us made in Amendment offered by Mr. GUTKNECHT: the elections 2 years ago. Mr. Chair- Page 95, after line 21, insert the following only a breach with the taxpayers of new section: America today but, more importantly, man, I hope that Members will support SEC. 422. Each amount appropriated or oth- with our children. the amendment. erwise made available by this Act that is not So I am offering again the same Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- required to be appropriated or otherwise amendment that I offered last week, man, I yield 5 minutes to the gen- made available by a provision of law is here- and I intend to offer it to every appro- tleman from Ohio [Mr. STOKES] and I by reduced by 1.9 percent. priation bill from this point forward to ask unanimous consent that he be per- Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- eliminate the 1.9-percent in discre- mitted to control that time. man, I ask unanimous consent, if the tionary spending on every appropria- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection gentleman would agree, that we have a tion bill that comes through this to the request of the gentleman from time limit agreement on the gentle- House. Now, if we will do that, we can California? man’s amendment and all amendments recover that fumble and get back the There was no objection. thereto of 20 minutes. $4.1 billion that we overstepped in the Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I budget agreement just a few weeks ago. man, I yield myself 2 minutes. would cede to the chairman of the sub- I want to just briefly say what this 1.9- committee, yes, 20 minutes, 10 each percent amendment will not affect, be- Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- side. cause I think there will be some man, I rise in the strongest of opposi- Mr. LEWIS of California. Ten min- misstatements on this floor of the tion to the gentleman’s amendment. utes to each side. House, and I think there is some mis- We all know the potential impact of The CHAIRMAN. is there objection understanding. First of all, this amend- across-the-board cuts, but this 1.9-per- to the request of the gentleman from ment will not affect compensation of cent cut indeed could be devastating to California? veterans. It will not affect pensions for this very delicately developed bill. Let There was no objection. veterans. It will not affect veterans in- me tell the Members what this amend- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman surance and indemnities. It will not af- ment would do. from Minnesota [Mr. GUTKNECHT] will fect the readjustment in education ben- For those of us who care about VA control 10 minutes in support of his efits for veterans, and it will not affect medical care, this across-the-board cut amendment and the gentleman from burial benefits, because I think some- would impact those programs by no California [Mr. LEWIS] will control 10 times people are concerned about that. less than $323 million, a minor little minutes in opposition to the amend- It will not affect mandatory spending. cut in VA medical care that we fought ment. So, Mr. Chairman and Members, what so hard today to increase by $40 mil- The Chair recognizes the gentleman will the amendment affect? Well, it lion. Under those circumstances, that from Minnesota [Mr. GUTKNECHT]. will affect discretionary spending, in- would mean that thousands of veterans Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I cluding administrative costs for the would not be able to receive inpatient yield myself 2 minutes. Federal bureaucracy. It will include medical treatment and thousands Mr. Chairman, some of us were ex- $1.2 billion for Mission to Planet Earth, would not receive their outpatient tremely disappointed a few weeks ago $4.3 billion for community development care.

b This symbol represents the time of day during the House proceedings, e.g., b 1407 is 2:07 p.m. Matter set in this typeface indicates words inserted or appended, rather than spoken, by a Member of the House on the floor.

H6917 H6918 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 It also would cut $124 million from by the year 2002. We got off to a great lion. This is an area of the budget al- EPA, $375 million from our housing start. For the first year, we met our ready cut $2.3 billion. It cuts EPA by programs, $258 million from NASA, and targets and we did what we said we $124 million, an area already cut by $62 million from the National Science were going to do and stayed on track, $494 million. And it cuts NASA by $258 Foundation. and things were going pretty good million, an area already cut $1 billion, Mr. Chairman, I think most around until about 2 weeks ago. as I said before. here know that this subcommittee has Two weeks ago, we passed a budget I think the amendment, under these done very diligent work in an attempt plan through this Congress that lit- circumstances with these facts, ought to reduce the rate of growth of govern- erally has the deficit going back up to be strongly rejected by the Members ment. We made by far the largest con- again. Let me say that one more time. of this House. tribution to those reductions we are The budget plan that we passed 2 weeks Mr. Chairman, I yield myself an addi- looking toward as we move in the di- ago has the deficit going back up again tional 30 seconds and yield to the gen- rection of a balanced budget by 2002. next year. That is not OK. tleman from Mississippi. We are not in that process, though, in- Tonight we offer an amendment that b 1900 terested in destroying these programs literally reduces spending by 1.9 per- cent to help get us back on track to a Mr. MONTGOMERY. The gentleman and particularly undermining our abil- is absolutely right. Under medical care ity to deliver the services out there to balanced budget, back to where we be- long, 1.9 percent. That is not 20 per- for veterans, under this amendment, people in communities that we all real- we are going backward. We are losing ly care about and really need many of cent. That is less than 2 cents out of every dollar. Is there really anyone out by $280 million. We are going down, those services. down, down. So this amendment should So while I know my colleague from there in this entire country that does be soundly defeated if we have any care Minnesota is sincere in his efforts to not believe we can find 2 cents out of for veterans and their medical care. cut the budget, we believe we have every dollar of waste in government spending? I believe we can. I honestly Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I re- done the job in as balanced a manner serve the balance of my time. within the committee as possible, and believe we can go into these bills and we can find 2 cents on the dollar of Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- we urge a very strong ‘‘no’’ vote on this man, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman across-the-board cut. waste. We are not talking 20 cents here. Two from Arizona [Mr. STUMP]. Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. STUMP. Mr. Chairman, I thank yield myself 1 minute. cents on the dollar. If we are able to do that, we can get ourselves back on the gentleman for yielding me this Mr. Chairman, I certainly do not time. want to cast any ill feelings toward the track to a balanced budget and do what is right for the future of this great Mr. Chairman, let me say that while chairman of this subcommittee or to a 1.9-percent cut does not seem like the other subcommittees. In fact, I country of ours. That is what this Con- gress is all about. That is what our much, we have to understand what this think the entire Committee on Appro- does. With all due respect, the gen- priations has done a very good job. If service to our country is all about. It is what we ought to be doing here to- tleman is correct when he says it will some will remember the Fram oil filter not affect mandatory veterans benefits, commercials from years ago, ‘‘you can night. Mr. Chairman, I strongly encourage but what he is not saying is it will af- pay me now or you can pay me later.’’ support of this amendment. fect our ability to deliver those bene- What we are really saying is we do not Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I yield fits to them and to process them. have the moral fortitude, we do not myself 2 minutes. As the ranking member just men- have the courage to actually cut an ad- Mr. Chairman, this is a bad amend- tioned, the thing that hurts me the ditional $4.1 billion this year from do- ment. It is a bad amendment because if most in this amendment is the cut to mestic discretionary spending, but the Members of this House were to vote medical care. That is the worst place in somehow in just 2 years, we will find for this amendment, it would certainly the world that we could cut veterans the courage to cut $47 billion. show irresponsibility. This is because benefits. So I would ask the gentleman Mr. Chairman, we are talking about 2 earlier today the House accepted a 0.4 to reconsider this; $323 million out of cents this year. I do appreciate the percent across-the-board reduction medical care certainly does hurt our work that the subcommittee has done, amendment sponsored by the gen- honored veterans, as the gentleman put and I certainly appreciate these pro- tleman from Arizona [Mr. STUMP]. it a while ago. grams and I appreciate the veterans as I think we need to take a moment Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I much as anybody. But I think most and just understand what that amend- yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from veterans understand that balancing the ment has already done as an across- Indiana [Mr. SOUDER]. budget transcends all of our respon- the-board reduction amendment. The Mr. SOUDER. Mr. Chairman, I want sibilities, and I think if we say, well, Stump amendment cuts $79 million to first comment briefly on the ques- this group is going to be exempt and from HUD, an area of the budget that tion of veterans benefits. Should this this group is going to be exempt, we has already been cut $2.3 billion. It cut amendment pass, I would be more than will never get to the goal of balancing $26 million from EPA, an area that al- willing, as I am sure many others the budget. ready had been cut $494 million. It fur- would, to look at how to transfer So with all due respect, I think that ther cuts $54 million from NASA, money into veterans medical inside this is a good amendment. which has already been cut $1.1 billion. this bill from HUD or other sections. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to Now, the offerer of the amendment That is not the question we are try- the gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. would have us think this is just a 1.9- ing to get at here. Veterans benefits go NEUMANN]. percent small reduction that does not up. We are trying to keep some of them Mr. NEUMANN. Mr. Chairman, today amount to anything. But we have to out. I am willing to back more, and this great Nation of ours stands $5.2 consider the amounts already cut from have looked at several amendments to trillion in debt. That is literally $20,000 these important areas and add to it the back more money for veterans. But for every man, woman, and child in the fact that, as the chairman of the sub- overall we have to look at the Federal United States of America. Every year committee has just said, this 1.9 per- deficit. Many of us are very upset that as we keep spending more money than cent is not so small. It cuts VA medical the deficit is increasing in our second we are talking in, we just keep adding care, which was protected from reduc- year of office. This amendment is not to that debt and our children get to get tion under the Stump amendment. This targeted at this bill, it is being offered that debt. This is their inheritance, amendment cuts medical care by $323 to every bill. that is what we are going to pass on to million, an area that all day long We talk a lot about balancing the our children. through one amendment after another budget. The fact is we are not moving When this Congress came in here 2 we have protected on behalf of the vet- toward a balanced budget. We took a years ago, we said we are going to be erans. This one hurts the veterans. step in the wrong direction. Maybe we different. We said we were going to bal- It cuts HUD, in addition to the cuts will over 7 years. We cannot bind Con- ance the budget, we were going to do it of the Stump amendment, by $374 mil- gress over 7 years, unless there is a June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6919 constitutional amendment. We cannot (Mr. HOSTETTLER asked and was Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he bind the next Congress. All we can be given permission to revise and extend may consume to the gentleman from held accountable for is what we do dur- his remarks.) Mississippi [Mr. MONTGOMERY]. ing our 2 years in office. Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. MONTGOMERY. Mr. Chairman, I A 1.9-percent cut across the board rise in strong support of this amend- appreciate the gentleman yielding me would get us, if we went back to our ment to reduce across the board the this time, and I should point out that I other appropriations bills, back to no VA–HUD appropriations bill by 1.9 per- hope my colleagues would oppose this bump-up in the second year. That is cent. First of all, let me reiterate the amendment. We were able earlier today the intent of this amendment. fact that, in fact, we spend $121 million to get for the veterans benefits an addi- Had others balanced off and figured more on VA medical expenditures than tional $17 million. Under this amend- out what priorities were inside that we did over 1996 in this bill with the 1.9 ment it takes $19 million out of the bill, we would not be faced with this. percent cut, so that even with the re- benefits, so we actually lose $2 million But we cannot constantly say, oh, well, duction in spending, even with the sav- out of the benefits program. we want to balance the budget but not ings for the next generation, we will in- This is based on claims, that it takes here, but not here; 1.9 percent is a very crease VA medical expenses by $121 158 days now to process a claim in the small amount, yet it is what the dif- million. benefits department. If we keep taking ference is as to the trend line of where Mr. Chairman, this is a responsible money away from us, it is going to this country is going. amendment. My dad was a veteran and take us forever to process these claims. I, and many others, came here to re- he served in North Africa, Sicily, Italy, It should be less than 90 days. Because duce the size of Government, to put France, and was on his way into the more power back to the States, and to we do not have the staff, and we are South Pacific when he got the good going to lose 600 employees anyway if make sure we stopped mortgaging our news that World War II was over. But children’s future. At this point, my we defeat this amendment, so by tak- my father, who passed away earlier ing another $2 million out of the bene- children will be saddled with such a this year, never meant for that victory debt and such a high potential of bank- fits, it does not make any sense at all. in World War II to result in a time On the VA health care, we are trying ruptcy of Medicare, of Social Security, when his grandchild, who is going to be of all of our Federal programs, unless to open up outpatient clinics so we can born later this year, is going to have a take care of more veterans. We are cut- we get a handle on it, that I believe it $187,000 bill to pay in interest on the is time that we do at least these small ting this $323 million more under this debt. amendment, so certainly I believe that steps. Mr. Chairman, this is a responsible Every year in this budget it gets the House should defeat this amend- amendment, and I ask for its adoption. ment. harder. If we cannot change 1.9 percent Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I now, how in the 3d year or the 4th year, yield 30 seconds to the gentleman from the 5th year, the 6th year, and the 7th yield myself the balance of my time. Wisconsin [Mr. NEUMANN]. I want to go over again, and I do un- year are any of those numbers realis- (Mr. NEUMANN asked and was given derstand that there will be cuts as a re- tic? I urge this body to vote ‘‘yes’’ on permission to revise and extend his re- sult of this 1.9 percent reduction, but if this simple amendment. marks.) Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I yield Mr. NEUMANN. Mr. Chairman, I just we look down the path, sooner or later myself 1 minute. rise because I keep hearing all this we are going to have to pay the price Mr. Chairman, I just want to respond stuff about cutting, cutting, cutting, for this. If we cannot make $4.1 billion to the statement made by the gen- cutting. I think we have an obligation worth of cuts this year, how are we tleman from Minnesota who just left to let the American people know that going to make $47 billion worth of cuts the well and who acknowledged that this bill is not going down in spending, in a couple of years? The answer is we money would be taken out of the medi- it is going up in spending by about $4 probably are not. cal care account, which I have already Let me just say this. Again, this 1.9 stipulated would be about $323 million. billion from last year to this year. So when we get all done talking percent reduction will not affect man- He commented that, if this amendment about all these cuts, the American peo- datory spending on veterans benefits, passed, he would be willing to look at ple have a right to know that spending including compensation of veterans, ways that we can transfer that money pensions for veterans, veterans insur- back into that part of the bill. is increasing in this bill. And even if our amendment is passed, spending ance and indemnities, readjustment in Well, I submit to Members of the education benefits and burial benefits. House that is not the way we legislate from last year to this year, in good old Wisconsin language, is going up be- This amount will affect none of those. and that is not the way that this House It affects domestic discretionary should legislate. In addition to that, cause we are spending more of the American taxpayers’ money. spending. that particular gentleman does not sit If we could adopt this simple little on the Subcommittee on VA, HUD and The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. GUTKNECHT] has amendment that is less than 2 cents on Independent Agencies. He will not be every dollar, we can recover the fumble 11⁄2 minutes remaining, the gentleman involved in the conference on this bill. this House made a few weeks ago when He will not have the ability to be able from California [Mr. LEWIS] has 2 min- we reneged on the promise we made to do anything else about this bill. utes remaining, and the gentleman last year. We have to act on this bill based from Ohio [Mr. STOKES] has 11⁄2 minutes Mr. Chairman, my grandmother said, upon what would happen tonight if we remaining. were to pass this irresponsible amend- Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I believe ‘‘If you always do what you have al- ment. I would urge the Members again I have the right to close. ways done, you will always get what to vote ‘‘no’’ on this. The gentleman The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman you have always got.’’ Unfortunately, from Minnesota says 1.9 percent is very from California [Mr. LEWIS] is the gen- this Congress is starting to do what small. I contend that there is nothing tleman who originally opposed the previous Congresses have always done. small about a $323 million reduction in amendment and claimed the time, but We are starting to say well, manana, medical care. yielded to the gentleman from Ohio manana. We will balance the budget in Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance [Mr. STOKES]. Under the procedure 2 years or 3 years. Well, some of us will of my time. today, the gentleman from California not be back next year, and maybe this Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I [Mr. LEWIS] has the right to close. amendment will cause some of us not yield myself such time as I may Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I have to be back, but, ladies and gentlemen, consume to say that this debate really no problem with the gentleman from as long as we are here, we ought to do is about what is responsible, and I California closing. the right thing, and the right thing is think that is what this Congress should Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- to keep the promises we made in the do. man, I will even yield that to the gen- campaign of November 1994. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the tleman from Ohio, if he would like. To keep the promises we made last gentleman from Indiana [Mr. Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I do not year with our 7-year budget plan, we HOSTETTLER]. need the additional time. need to get back on our path towards a H6920 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 balanced budget; 1.9 percent on the rest the amendment offered by the gen- Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, as all of the appropriations bills will get us tleman from Minnesota [Mr. who are listening are well aware, the there. I hope Members will support the GUTKNECHT] will be postponed. Contract With America was intended amendment. The point of no quorum is considered as a full-scale, all-out attack upon the Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- withdrawn. environment of our country. There was man, I yield myself the balance of my b 1915 an agenda put together in the begin- time. ning of this Congress towards the goal AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. HOEKSTRA I am very impressed by the presen- of eviscerating most of the laws which Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- tation by my colleague from Min- have been placed upon the books over man, at the request of the gentleman nesota, Mr. GUTKNECHT. And to para- the last quarter of a century to protect from Michigan [Mr. HOEKSTRA], I ask phrase his grandmother, I would say, the environment in our country. ‘‘If you do not always do what you have unanimous consent that the pending One of the primary assaults upon the always done, you are not going to get demand for a recorded vote on the environment was begun in the Commit- what you always got.’’ amendment offered by the gentleman tee on Commerce last year, culminat- The objective of the gentleman is not from Michigan be withdrawn. ing, in the fall, upon a Superfund re- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection different than our mutual effort to form bill introduced by the Republican to the request of the gentleman from eliminate the deficit. The subcommit- Party. Its intent, for all intents and California? tee takes this work very seriously. It is There was no objection. purposes, to gut the Superfund bill, to very important for all of us to know The CHAIRMAN. The amendment is make it ineffective. that the House, particularly this Mem- rejected on a voice vote. The centerpiece, in their own words, ber, as well as the gentleman from of their Superfund gutting bill was to AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. MARKEY Minnesota [Mr. GUTKNECHT] are com- Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I offer take hundreds of millions of dollars a mitted to changing the pattern of an amendment. year, billions of dollars, billions over spending that have been a part of our The CHAIRMAN. The clerk will des- the next decade, and to give money past. But that does not mean that we ignate the amendment. back to polluters, polluters who have have to overnight tear the heart out of The text of the amendment is as fol- already accepted responsibility for important programs or undermine very lows: having polluted their own neighbor- carefully crafted efforts to move in the Amendment offered by Mr. MARKEY: Page hoods, for having ruined the water in direction of reducing all traditional 95, after line 21, insert: their communities, for having led to patterns of spending. SEC. 422. None of the funds made available the deaths of small children because of What we are about here, in all of to the Environmental Protection Agency exposure to toxics, giving money not to these efforts, is to reduce the rate of under the heading ‘‘HAZARDOUS SUB- the communities in order to help clean growth of our government. We all rec- STANCE SUPERFUND’’ may be used to pro- up but to the polluters themselves. ognize that there are other elements to vide any reimbursement (except pursuant to Now, the centerpiece of this proposal section 122(b) of the Comprehensive Environ- the government process than just mental Response, Compensation, and Liabil- is still embodied in the Republican ap- spending. There are growth opportuni- ity Act of 1980) of response costs incurred by propriations bill. In it is included a ties in terms of our economy. The tax- any person when it is made known to the of- provision taking $861 million over the ing system is producing more revenues. ficial having the authority to obligate such next year and making it available to Indeed, over time, as we reduce the funds that such person has agreed to pay give back to polluters who already ac- pattern of spending and the revenues such costs under a judicially approved con- cepted responsibility for their pollu- grow, we get to 2002 and we have a bal- sent decree entered into before the enact- tion and their responsibility to clean it anced budget. That is our objective. ment of this Act, and none of the funds made up. available under such heading may be used to Now, here is how it works: If you The time we suggest that the way to pay any amount when it is made known to solve the budget is to cut every pro- the official having the authority to obligate happen to have been a polluter, con- gram, eliminate programs that are such funds that such amount represents a gratulations to you. You may already very important to people, is the time retroactive liability discount attributable to have won millions of dollars in cash we have a counterrevolution. That a status or activity of such person (described prizes from the Grand Old Party. The could lead to real disaster in terms of paragraphs (1), (2), (3) or (4) of section 107(a) Ed McMahon polluters clearinghouse our economy. We are attempting to of the Comprehensive Environmental Re- sweepstakes. Here is how it works. Just make sense out of this process in this sponse, Compensation, and Liability Act of wait for this appropriations bill to 1980) that existed or occurred prior to Janu- pass, enacting reforms. Pretty soon the bill. ary 1, 1987. So far, through the rescission proc- EPA Superfund prize van will pull up Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, will ess, the 1996 bill this year, this sub- to your corporate headquarters and the gentleman yield? hand you a Federal Government tax- committee will have passed over $17 Mr. MARKEY. I yield to the gen- payer check, if you can identify your- billion of reduced spending, a signifi- tleman from New York. cant shift in pattern for this sub- Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, is self as a polluter. Here is how it works. committee. I tell the author of this there an agreement on time for this First, is your toxic waste dump listed amendment, as I oppose the amend- amendment? on the Superfund site on the national ment and ask that the Members vote Mr. MARKEY. On the amendment priorities list? In other words, that you ‘‘no,’’ I tell the author that I too am which is now pending, there is a 40- are one of the worst polluters in Amer- committed to balancing this budget. minute agreement on time, 20 minutes ica. You must answer yes to that ques- I am a absolutely convinced we are evenly divided. tion to qualify for this Federal money. on a pathway to help with that, espe- I am sorry. I apologize, Mr. Chair- Second, did you even incur cleanup cially in terms of discretionary spend- man. There has not yet been an agree- costs since they introduced their bill ing. ment reached on time. last October? That is, once, if you were The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Mr. BOEHLERT. Would the gen- there on October 18 as a polluter, you the amendment offered by the gen- tleman entertain an request for an qualify for this money. tleman from Minnesota [Mr. agreement on time? I know both the Third, was your liability attributable GUTKNECHT]. chairman and the ranking member are to activities which occurred prior to The question was taken; and the anxious to move this along. I would be 1987? That is after the Superfund bill Chairman announced that the noes ap- receptive to an agreement on time. passed in 1981 so that in fact we knew peared to have it. Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, will the that and you knew that the Superfund Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Chairman, I gentleman yield? law was on the books, and have you ac- demand a recorded vote, and pending Mr. MARKEY. I yield to the gen- cepted responsibility in a court-or- that, I make the point of order that a tleman from Ohio. dered, a court-ordered consent decree quorum is not present. Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, we in which you have already agreed to The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House would have to object to an agreement accept liability to clean up the site Resolution 456, further proceedings on on time. yourself? June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6921 If you qualify under all of those we got caught off base. We do not want payers that I know the gentleman from standards, then you are a grand prize to have this on our record. So we are Massachusetts is so fond of and wants winner as a polluter. You qualify for going to withdraw it. Let us wait until to protect, the taxpayers who pay into the $861 million a year, billions of dol- Bob Dole is President so he will not be the Superfund and the very polluters lars over the next decade, which can be vetoing this so we can just do it with that he is talking about. He would and will be given out to polluters. the majority of the votes in the House allow the impression out there that Now, this, it seems to me, is an ab- and the Senate. We are going to pull it somehow these taxpayers, Mr. and Mrs. surdity. We do not have $861 million a back right now. We got caught. But no Joe Sixpack, are paying, are going to year for a new program to hand over to way are we going to take out the $861 pay for these cleanups. And we simply polluters when we are cutting Medi- million. In no way are we going to put cannot allow that argument to stand. care, when we are cutting student a limitation on it being used by other It makes no sense. loans, when we are cutting every other mechanisms to give rebates to pollut- The Superfund program is basically social program. We cannot have this ers, no. We are going to take out that funded to the tune of $1.6 billion a year program pile up to $6 and $8 billion part of the Markey amendment. until, of course, the President vetoed over the next decade, gobbling up what So this is a very clean, simple those taxes that go into the Superfund, limited resources we have as we target amendment that deals with the heart $1.6 billion a year that come from the the 2002 for a balanced budget. of the challenge to the Superfund pro- oil companies, the chemical companies, Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I move gram which for 12 years was under Re- from chemical feedstocks, and the en- to strike the last word. publican control. vironmental income tax, that is really Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- Remember this tonight, my col- what funds the program. tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. MAR- leagues: Yes, it was passed by a Demo- So my friend from Massachusetts, KEY]. cratic Congress but Rita Lavell and who I know is a great friend of the tax- Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank Ann Gorsuch and a whole line of Re- payers, has received a lot of awards for the gentleman from Ohio very much publican administrators for 12 years, his stand on lower taxes and protecting for yielding to me. right up to 1993, had responsibility for the taxpayer, I am appalled, frankly, This provision has to be stricken it. Only in the last years has it been that my friend from Massachusetts from the Republican proposal, has to put in the hands of an administrator would make the argument here on the be cut out. That is what this amend- who is fully committed to its imple- floor of the House of Representatives ment does. It just ensures that not mentation. that somehow the taxpayer is going to only under the bill which the Repub- If this program was not as fully effec- bail out these evil corporate polluters licans introduced last year, H.R. 2500, tive as it could have been, and we do when, in fact, they are paying the but under any bill which is ever intro- believe it should be reformed, blame taxes in the first place. They are not duced, we do not give money back to those Republican administrators, one getting their money’s worth, folks. polluters who have already accepted of whom even went to jail in a con- All you have to do is look at the pro- court-ordered consent decree respon- tempt of Congress citation, for their gram, 15 years of failure, about 5 per- sibility as to their responsibility to lack of regard for our congressional in- cent of the sites on the national prior- clean up the site. It makes no sense tent. ities list cleaned up. We have spent $30 whatsoever. So this is at heart a vote on whether billion in public and private moneys to So this is a very simple proposal. It or not in fact we are going to keep to clean up these sites. And what do we gets right at the heart of what it is the soul of what the Superfund pro- have to show for it? the average site that the Republicans want to propose gram was meant to achieve; that is, rests on the NPL for 10 to 12 years. The as a reform of environmental laws, giv- that those who were responsible must average cost of a site to be cleaned up ing money to polluters. We have oper- pay. And we are not going to use lim- is between $25 and $30 million. And ated for the last 15 years under the no- ited taxpayer dollars as a handout to guess what? tion of the polluter pays, if they are re- them. As we go through this debate, sponsible. The Republican proposal Mr. BOEHLERT will attempt to take one b 1930 transforms it into the taxpayer pays small portion of it, one small attempt, the polluter. We are so sorry, it is the initial attempt, and to say, we are Only about half of that really goes to going to cost you money for having to not going to use that route anymore, actual cleanup. clean up the mess you created in the but make it impossible to have a Mr. Chairman, I would suggest to my community, this neighborhood night- straight up or down vote on whether or colleagues that a vote for the Markey mare, which has taken all the property not any other attempt which the Re- amendment is basically a vote for the in the neighborhood off of the tax rolls, publicans have contemplated can in status quo. which could have led to the deaths or fact be used to give this money over to Now, if my colleagues like the idea of the creation of disease in families polluters. a Superfund program that fits all the within the community. That is their I want everyone to understand this qualifications that I just mentioned in new notion. We take care of the pollut- debate, as it unfolds, because it gets terms of abject failure, then they want ers. right at the heart of what we believe as to support the Markey amendment be- So the Markey-Pallone-Borski Democrats should be the intent of this cause the Markey amendment essen- amendment deletes this ability to be program, which is personal responsibil- tially is an SOS amendment, ‘‘some old able to hand this money over to the ity, personal and corporate responsibil- stuff,’’ and we are going to continue polluters. It is a very clean, simple ity. Those who created the messes with the same process that we had be- vote. As we go through the rest of the should clean them up. Those who have fore, and I have got to think we are night, there will be attempts to take accepted legal responsibility in the better than that. out one small attempt at doing it, last courts should clean them up. We should I think we can learn from the mis- year’s version, but it does not deal not have to turn to the taxpayers, tip takes of past Democrat Congresses with any other version. The money them upside down, have $861 million that foisted this program on us, first of stays there, all $861 million. over the next year and billions more in all, in a lame-duck session, signed by a The gentleman from New York [Mr. years after that used to clean up the lame-duck President, in overreaction BOEHLERT] is going to seek to make an messes which corporate executives are to a couple of situations in New York amendment which just says, well, we responsible for. State and Missouri, and then in 1986 we are not going to use H.R. 2500, last Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise in compounded that felony by voting for a year’s version, but it does not say any- opposition to the amendment. reauthorization of the program that thing about any other version, which is (Mr. OXLEY asked and was given made it even worse, and some of the ar- what the Markey amendment says. permission to revise and extend his re- chitects behind the original bill and You cannot do it. It is impossible under marks.) the 1986 reauthorization are the same the Markey amendment. The Boehlert Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, let us get people who are opposing meaningful re- amendment says, well, we got caught; one thing straight first of all. The tax- form in this program. And I say shame H6922 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 on them and shame on their memory of contentiousness Superfund’s liability Now, I have heard some rather novel what they have accomplished in the system causes. One can be held a hun- and stressed explanations of why that last 15 years, which is practically noth- dred percent liable for the entire cost might be a good idea, but the simple ing. of cleanup at a site which could stretch matter is that is a device to pay the And so it gives us an opportunity fi- into hundreds of millions of dollars polluter. That is something that has nally, under a Republican Congress, to even if they did not cause any of the always been alien to the principles that really deal with the problem at hand contamination, even if they were not we have had with regard to dealing and to clean these sites up, and I would even alive when the contamination oc- with Superfund. suggest to my colleagues that that is curred, and even if they acted com- Second, it would prohibit compensat- our goal and that is what we are trying pletely legally at the time, or even if ing people who have already cut a deal to accomplish with our bill that we they were ordered to put contamina- with the Federal Government and with have introduced [ROSA] Refund of tion at the site by the Federal Govern- other polluters to clean up and to allo- Superfund Act. ment or some local government. cate the responsibilities. Make it very clear that the Markey Does that strike my colleagues as a My good friend, the gentleman from amendment stands for the status quo. reasonable Federal statute? I do not New York [Mr. BOEHLERT] who is a This is clearly the most egregious en- think so, and that is why the NFIB, the most sincere Member of this body, has vironmental program that anybody National Federation of Independent come forward with an amendment could have ever invented, and I do not Business, who represent over 600,000 which says that the first is a good idea, understand why my friend from Massa- small businesses in this country today, that we should not pay polluters for chusetts would want to sustain that for along with local governments, school cleaning up. But he says that we should another several years. boards and other local organizations permit polluters to continue to get I had an opportunity the other day to oppose the Markey amendment. As a paid after they have cut a deal so that find a rather interesting piece of read- matter of fact, the NFIB has made this they essentially would be drawing ing material. It is a coloring book that a key vote. moneys above and beyond what they is put out by the Environmental Pro- I want to stress to my colleagues in should get in terms of their cleanup. tection Agency. It is called the the House on both sides of the aisle Now, this is a most curious posture, ‘‘Superfund Team, Mother Mouse,’’ and this is the NFIB key vote on the and I am sure that the gentleman from instead of protecting children from Superfund bill this session, and let us New York will have an interesting ex- contamination by cleaning up understand exactly where they are planation for this. It is going to, I am Superfund sites, the EPA apparently is coming from. They understand what a sure, be extremely interesting, and he indoctrinating them with a Superfund disaster this Superfund statute really has nodded ‘‘yes’’ to me, but I think it Man and Mother Mouse routine. is. is probably going to lack merit. The CHAIRMAN. The time of the Let us make certain for a change Now having said these things, there gentleman from Ohio [Mr. OXLEY] has that we will deal with real cleanups has been pending a long time an effort expired. this time instead of spending it on to get a decent cleanup under (By unanimous consent, Mr. OXLEY coloring books, on lawyers, on bureauc- Superfund. I was highly critical of the was allowed to proceed for 3 additional racies, and get this job done once and last Superfund bill, and I was roundly minutes.) for all. criticized by a lot of people for being Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, I under- Mr. BUYER. Mr. Chairman, will the very much opposed to many of the stand we have no time constraints on gentleman yield. things they tried to do in terms of this particular amendment; is that cor- Mr. OXLEY. I yield to the gentleman compounding the difficulty of enforce- rect? from Indiana. ment. So I do not apologize for any- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is Mr. BUYER. Mr. Chairman, I am cu- body for my views on this. correct. rious. Did not Carol Browner and the I will tell my colleagues there is ur- Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, this is EPA come before the gentleman and gent need for enactment of new and im- the coloring book, and let me quote ask for an increase in funding, and now proved Superfund legislation, get rid of from the book where Mother Mouse the gentleman is telling us they are some of the things that my good friend meets the U.S. EPA remediation work- spending dollars, taxpayer dollars, on from Ohio, Mr. OXLEY, properly com- ers: coloring books? plained about. There is time, however, She was smiling and humming when all of Mr. OXLEY. That is precisely cor- to address this question. a sudden she heard someone coming. She saw rect. Last Congress we reported out legis- a strange sight. ‘‘Oh my. What a fright!’’ Mr. BUYER. That is pretty disgrace- lation out of the Committee on Com- Two people wore white suits with hoods on ful. merce. It was duly killed by my Repub- their heads and gloves on their hands. ‘‘They’re creatures from Mars,’’ she Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I move lican colleagues, who did not want to screamed. ‘‘Quick. Get in the house. Pull to strike the requisite number of move forward on Superfund legislation tight the laces. Don’t make a sound. Stay in words. during the last Congress. your places.’’ ‘‘But we know them—they’re (Mr. DINGELL asked and was given The Republicans during the last Con- keen!’’ the children cried out. ‘‘They’re the permission to revise and extend his re- gress killed our efforts to pass a better Superfund Team! The Superfund Team!’’ the marks.) Superfund bill, and I know it distresses kids said with a shout. Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I rise them to have this fact revealed because This is actually a publication of the in opposition to the amendment offered it is one of the nasty little secrets that government of the United States of by the gentleman. they carry around in their pocket. America. We have established a special Mr. Chairman, I hope everybody has Now having said this to my col- hazardous waste cleanup program with listened very closely to the comments leagues, I think that we should observe its own taxes to pay for the self-pro- by my dear friend from Ohio and that there is the ability on the part of motion of the Environmental Protec- looked at these wonderful posters that my Republican colleagues to address tion Agency. The sad part is that in he has put up. The wonderful posters Superfund. They chair the committee, real life the men in white suits do not that my good friend from Ohio has put they chair the subcommittee, they show up for years while mother and the up do not mean anything and they do have the majority of the House, and children still live by the contamina- not have anything to do with the de- they have extraordinary discipline. tion. bate in which we are now engaged. Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, will the Let us not waste time on coloring There are two amendments pending. gentleman yield? books, outrageous delays, endless law- The first is an amendment by my good Mr. DINGELL. I will yield to my suits and bureaucratic bickering. Let friend from Massachusetts [Mr. MAR- friend because I know he has some- us clean up the pollution for a change. KEY]. That amendment does two very thing important to add, and I am sure Contaminated sites are still sitting simple things. It says first that one he wants to agree with me. But I want around as giant festering sores on the cannot give rebates to polluters in con- to conclude my statement, and I know landscape primarily because of the nection with cleanup. he understands because I listened to June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6923 him with great interest even though Now I guess the gentleman from New quickly and effectively, if my col- his comments were, in good part, irrel- York [Mr. BOEHLERT] wants me to yield leagues think that the Girl Scouts, evant to the discussion that we are en- to him? churches, small businesses, local gov- gaged in. Mr. BOEHLERT. No, I am just listen- ernments, and many, many other pol- Having said these things and ex- ing with rapt attention. luters are polluters and that we should pressed great respect for my good Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I am continue throwing good money after friend from Ohio, who is not only a mightily distressed at that, and I bad to lawyers and consultants, then, dear friend but one of the finest Mem- therefore yield back the balance of my by all means, my colleagues should bers in this body, even though he is time. support the gentleman’s amendment. wrong in this matter, I would observe Mr. Chairman, our Republican colleagues If, on the other hand, they have even that the Republicans have the full ca- rejected the bipartisan bill that was approved the faintest idea of how badly broken pability to move forward. We stand 44 to 0 by the Energy and Commerce Com- Superfund truly is, they should join me ready to assist them in moving forward mittee in the 103d Congress in favor of a new in vigorously opposing the Markey on good legislation. bill, H.R. 2500, that was not introduced until amendment. I will observe that good legislation October 1995. It seems that it took 10 months b 1945 does, however, not embody the prin- to figure out how to destroy the bipartisan ciple that we should pay the polluters agreement we had achieved in the prior Con- The amendment would prevent any for cleaning up. We should cause the gress after months of stakeholders discus- meaningful Superfund recovery from polluters to pay, and we should not ab- sions. taking place by eliminating even the solve those who have arrived at a set- It is my firm belief that we should dedicate possibility of allowing some fair share tlement of the responsibility that they as much Superfund money as possible to or ‘‘orphan share’’ funding under the have achieved by having set at risk the cleanup, and not to relieving polluters of their program. The amendment effectively health and the welfare and the well- responsibility. And that is exactly what Mr. prohibits any retroactive liability re- being and the environment of the MARKEY'S amendment is designed to do. lief whatsoever. Superfund’s system of American people. Mr. MARKEY'S amendment will assure that retroactive liability is so fundamen- Mr. Chairman, I would urge my col- Superfund money will be spent on cleanup tally unfair that it has forced parties leagues then to reject the amendment and not on reimbursing polluters. The Markey caught up in a never ending blame that offered by my good friend from New amendment will ensure that existing consent delays cleanup and threatens human York, for whom I also have enormous decrees, under which parties have agreed to health. respect, and to adopt the amendment conduct or pay the costs of cleanup, will not Mr. Chairman, the fact of the matter offered by my good friend from Massa- be disturbed. Why should EPA expend enor- is that no one, and I mean no one, be- chusetts because it says that the pol- mous transaction costs to revisit existing con- lieves that the current Superfund law luter pays, the polluter gets no break sent decrees when the parties to those de- is working. Here is what people have for his wrongdoing, whereas the gen- crees have agreed to conduct a cleanup? If said. President Clinton; yes, President tleman from New York says that he those parties have agreed, why do they ex- Clinton: ‘‘We all know it doesn’t might get some. pect to be relieved of their obligations under work,’’ he says, ‘‘the Superfund has The CHAIRMAN. The time of the these decrees? been a disaster. All the money goes to gentleman from Michigan [Mr. DIN- This amendment absolutely does not disturb lawyers and none of the money goes to GELL] has expired. the EPA's ability to provide funding at sites clean up the problem it was designed to (By unanimous consent, Mr. DINGELL where there are existing consent decrees if clean up.’’ was allowed to proceed for 2 additional EPA decides to provide funding to cover all or The EPA Inspector General has said minutes.) that ‘‘On a site-by-site basis, it is clear Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, will the part of the shares of insolvent or defunct par- ties. This amendment does not adversely af- that liability negotiations consume a gentleman yield? lot of time and delay completion of the Mr. DINGELL. I yield to the gen- fect the EPA's ability to fund the relief con- tained in the recent Superfund liability propos- site.’’ tleman from Ohio. In a 1994 editorial, that bastion of Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank als offered by the Democratic members of our Committee as well as the administration. Our conservative thought, the New York the gentleman from Michigan [Mr. DIN- Times, said that GELL], who I have a great deal of re- recent proposals include fair share funding, Superfund has failed the efficiency test: of spect for, and he is usually right on limitations on municipal owner liability, exemp- tions for small business generators and trans- the $13 billion spent by government and com- most issues, but let me remind him panies, one fourth has gone to what are about the last Congress when I think porters of waste, and exemptions for genera- euphemistically called ‘‘transaction costs,’’ the gentleman in the well was the tors and transporters of municipal waste. The fees to lawyers and consultants, many of chairman of the committee, and we had administration's letters in support of Mr. MAR- them former Federal officials who spin Democrats chairing the committee. KEY'S amendment confirm that this amend- through Washington’s revolving door to Mr. DINGELL. That is right, and we ment is consistent both with the administra- trade their Superfund expertise for private reported out a good Superfund bill tion's Superfund reform initiatives as well as gain. unanimously out of the Committee on the liability proposals we have offered during A year earlier, the Washington Post Commerce, and my Republican col- our bipartisan negotiations. editorialized that Superfund ‘‘is gener- leagues—— Moreover, this amendment will not bring ating intolerable injustices and needs Mr. OXLEY. I am amazed, I must Superfund cleanups to a halt. That is, unless to be fixed. Many of these cases,’’ as say, at being in the minority for all the companies decide to use this as a hollow ex- they say, ‘‘are grossly unfair, and all time that I was in the Congress for the cuse to breach their agreements to perform invite furious litigation as small com- first 14 years, and then to be honored cleanup under the consent decrees they have panies, big ones, banks, mortgage hold- with apparently the title of being able already signed. ers, local governments and insurers all to kill the Superfund bill—— I urge my colleagues to support the Markey go after each other. That is why a high Mr. DINGELL. And the gentleman is amendment to assure that Superfund moneys proportion of the money spent so far a fine chairman—— are spent on what I had thought was our mu- has gone not to cleanups but into law- Mr. OXLEY. As a minority I am truly tual goalÐexpediting cleanup. yer’s fees.’’ honored. I did not realize I was that Mr. BLILEY. Mr. Chairman, I move The Seattle times editorial board good, and I thank the gentleman for to strike the requisite number of wrote that Superfund ‘‘has created a yielding. words. legal swamp, enriching lawyers while Mr. DINGELL. The gentleman is a Mr. Chairman, the vote on the Mar- accomplishing precious little cleanup.’’ fine chairman, and all he has got to do key amendment today is nothing short And a 1994 USA Today editorial said to get us a Superfund bill to the floor of a referendum on Superfund itself. If that ‘‘Superfund is absurdly expensive, which is really meaningful is to see to my colleagues think Superfund is effec- hideously complex, and sometimes pa- it that the subcommittee convenes, tive, if my colleagues think that the tently unfair. As a result, it invites writes a bill, and reports it out and ex- program is doing a good job of cleaning litigation the way dung attracts flies: cludes paying the polluter. up our Nation’s worst toxic waste sites not by seeking but just by being.’’ H6924 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 Mr. Chairman, the evidence is clear. ready started, what I was hearing from own thing with toxic waste clean up. I Superfund is badly broken. That is pre- my friends on the other side of the do not agree with that. I do agree with cisely why I have made Superfund re- aisle in opposition to it, basically I got one statement that the gentleman form a top priority of the Committee the impression they were denying that from Ohio, the chairman of our sub- on Commerce in this Congress. All this money would ultimately be used committee, made tonight when he said other reform proposals are on the for a rebate program that gives money that this is a key vote. This is a key table, including the 103d Congress’s back to the polluters. vote because basically this is the only Superfund deal, the administration’s But having listened to some of the amendment on the floor this year that new liability proposal, Republican pro- debate tonight, it seems like just the will clearly define where people stand: posals drafted by my colleague and opposite. I do not know if anyone has Either you are for polluter pays, which friend, the gentleman from Ohio [MIKE specifically admitted on the other side is the basis for the Superfund Program, OXLEY] and myself, contain some ele- that that is what this money would be or you are for pay the polluter, which ment of the fair share funding which used for, but they certainly do not is what the gentleman from Michigan the Markey amendment would pro- seem to indicate that is a problem, [Mr. DINGELL] and the gentleman from hibit. using it for that purpose. Massachusetts [Mr. MARKEY have said. In fact, the administration has the Mr. Chairman, we cannot have it That is what this is all about. This ap- statutory authority to use so-called both ways. We cannot come in here propriations bill will allow the Govern- mixed funding under the law, and Ad- earlier in the day, or last week in a ment to pay the polluter. I do not ministrator Browner recently an- press conference, and say, ‘‘Oh, we are think that is right. I do not think that nounced that EPA would expand its use great because we are going to provide is the way the program should be set of orphan share funding to the tune of so much more money for the Superfund up. $40 million a year. This amendment Program, we are going to do even more I also want to make mention of an- would eliminate EPA’s ability to im- than the Democrats want, and then other theme that I keep hearing from plement even the modest administra- later on say, oh, well that money the other side of the aisle. That is that tive reform of the Superfund proposal. might be used for a rebate program, or somehow the Democrats on this side do The CHAIRMAN. The time of the we have to do all these changes to the not want to see the reforms in the gentleman from Virginia [Mr. BLILEY] Superfund Program first before we are Superfund Program that would help has expired. going to make the money available, small businesses or help municipali- (By unanimous consent, Mr. BLILEY and we are not exactly sure that the ties. In fact, the gentleman from Mas- was allowed to proceed for 2 additional money is going to be used for. sachusetts [Mr. MARKEY] and the rest minutes.) That is the impression I am getting of us have repeatedly said we would ex- Mr. BLILEY. Mr. Chairman, the vote from the other side of the aisle. It empt small businesses, the little guys on this amendment is very simple. If scares me and makes it more crucial to who do not have the financial means to members support Superfund reform, have this amendment passed to make contribute to the cause of cleanup. vote ‘‘no’’ on the Markey amendment. sure that the money will not be used, if We would exempt municipalities, res- It simply amazes me, Mr. Chairman, it ever does become available, for this idential homeowners, small nonprofits. that the gentleman from Massachu- rebate program to polluters. Essen- We would exempt any person who con- tributed less than 110 gallons of liquid setts would offer the amendment. Mas- tially, the debate this evening is on the hazardous substance, 200 pounds. We sachusetts has 32 sites, three-two, 32 Superfund Program. sites listed on the national Superfund All of a sudden now, the Republicans, would cap the liability. There is noth- ing in this amendment, there is noth- priorities list. Construction on cleanup or most of them on the other side, are ing in this amendment that would pre- remedy is complete on only 2 of these suggesting that what they are really clude any of those changes in the sites, even though 14 of them have been all about here is that they want to dra- Superfund Program from taking place. on the NPO list since 1983. It is aston- matically change the Superfund Pro- The reason we are offering this ishing that we cannot decide how to gram. I would contend that what they amendment is because we do not want clean up a Superfund site in the time it really want to do is abolish the to see change the cornerstone of the took our forefathers to hold a Boston Superfund Program, or at least make it Superfund Program, and that is that tea party, declare independence, fight a ineffective. the polluter should pay to clean up the Revolutionary War, write a new Con- The bottom line is that Superfund is mess, if you will, that he left behind. stitution, and establish a whole new working, contrary to the statements Once you get rid of that, you will not government. that my colleagues are making on the have an effective Superfund Program My friend sent out a ‘‘Dear Col- Republican side of the aisle. Sites are anymore. That is why this amendment league’’ letter last week saying getting cleaned up. In my district, 7 of is so crucial, and I would urge its adop- ‘‘Superfund is working in my district.’’ 9 sites are in some phase of cleanup. tion. Now he is introducing an amendment Nationally there are 1,284 sites on the Mr. SHUSTER. Mr. Chairman, I move to prevent Superfund from working in national priority list, and in more than to strike the requisite number of anyone else’s district. I would think one quarter of them, or 346, construc- words. the gentleman would not be so callous tion has been completed, that means Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposi- toward the people across the country clean up. Construction has commenced tion to the Markey amendment. Every who live near Superfund sites to block at more than 470 other sites and final proposal that has been put forward on legislation that will get those sites cleanup decisions have been made at Superfund includes the proposal that cleaned up, especially since only 2 of 34 about 150 other sites. So there are rebates be paid. If the gentlemen say sites in his home State have been nearly 1,000 sites where construction they are opposed to rebates, then they cleaned up. has either been completed or begun, or are opposed to every reform proposal Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Chairman, I a cleanup decision is made. that has been put forward. They are op- move to strike the requisite number of I would point out that this adminis- posed to fundamental reform. They words. tration has also cleaned up more toxic must want to see the lawyers continue Mr. Chairman, I am somewhat waste sites than in the previous 10 to get the money, rather than the amazed by what I am hearing on the years. All it takes is an administration money going into actually cleaning up other side, because earlier today when that cares about a Superfund Program, these Superfund sites. we discussed my amendment that sim- rather than one that does not believe In fact, I find it more curious and ply would have required that this $861 in the Superfund Program. more curious that we have heard from million in contingency money for the In the Committee on Commerce when several of the opposition that the Superfund Program be simply put to we were marking up the Republican Superfund is working. The President of use this year to fund the Superfund Superfund bill, there were many mem- the United States, Mr. Clinton, Presi- Program and to make it possible to bers who basically suggested we should dent Clinton, has said that it is not work on new sites and continue work not even have a Superfund at all and working. Carol Browner, the EPA ad- on existing sites where work has al- we should just let the States do their ministrator, says that the entire June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6925 Superfund law should be rewritten Mr. Chairman, this bill contains only the polluters. That is unmitigated non- from start to finish. The EPA Inspector $1.3 billion for Superfund. sense, plain and simple. We are talking General said it is not working. But b 2000 about a so-called retroactive liability even though their President and their discount scheme that was floated about EPA and their Inspector General say it That money should be used for clean- several months ago and we rejected it. is not working, we have heard them ups, not for corporate payoffs. With It is off the table. No one agrees that say tonight that Superfund is working. this amendment, corporate polluters we should have retroactive liability The evidence is very clear. The statis- would still be held responsible for discount, because we do not want to tics which have already been presented cleaning up the toxic messes that they pay the polluters. Everyone agrees to indicate that that is simply not the created. that. case. Mr. Chairman, money from corporate Now, the concept of should those who The amendment before us is a fund- polluters has funded most of the pollute pay be embraced? You are darn ing limitation on the EPA spending bill Superfund cleanups that have taken right it should be. We should force that would preclude any reimburse- place. If that source of money is elimi- those who pollute to pay, because we ment to persons who are potentially nated without being replaced, have an obligation to our children and liable under the Superfund statute. All Superfund cleanups would have to be future generations to leave them with legislative proposals to reform drastically reduced. a cleaner, safer, healthier environment, Superfund, even the EPA’s proposals, With the low level of funding in this and we intend to do just that. involve some element of reimburse- bill, using any fund to pay corporate However, my friend, the gentleman ment. Let me again emphasize that. polluters would mean less cleanup, less from Massachusetts [Mr. MARKEY], the The amendment before us ensures that protection of the environment, less author of this amendment, suggests none of these reforms can go forward. protection of drinking water. that the present program should be left The author has amended his amend- All of this leads to one question: intact; do not make any adjustments. ment twice before bringing it to us, but Where is the Superfund reform? Every- Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that the it is still fatally flawed. It freezes the one has agreed that Superfund reform gentleman from Massachusetts talk to status quo and it protects the liveli- is absolutely critical. But, we have his President and my President, the hood of all those wonderful Superfund been waiting for 18 months for the ma- fellow who occupies 1600 Pennsylvania lawyers. So if Members want to protect jority to move a bill to the full com- Avenue. He thinks there should be the lawyers, then they should support mittee level. In the waning months of some changes and has provided some the amendment before us. But if Mem- the 103d Congress, Administrator money in the budget for liability relief. bers want to reform Superfund, then Browner put together a consensus bill The Administrator of the Environ- oppose this amendment. that was backed by a remarkable coali- mental Protection Agency, a woman Mr. BORSKI. Mr. Chairman, I move tion, business, State and local govern- for whom I have the greatest of respect to strike the requisite number of ments and environmental groups and and I work with on a partnership basis, words. Democrats and Republicans. Carol Browner, thinks there should be (Mr. BORSKI asked and was given Incidentally, Mr. Chairman, under some liability relief, and I agree with permission to revise and extend his re- Administrator Browner there have her. marks.) been more cleanups in the first 3 years Here is who we should relieve. We Mr. BORSKI. Mr. Chairman, I am than in the previous 12 years of the should relieve those small business pleased to join the gentleman from Superfund program. Unfortunately, the people, the innocent people who are Massachusetts and the gentleman from bill that Administrator Browner craft- victimized and caught up in this New Jersey in offering this amendment ed died at the end of the last Congress. scheme. I am not just saying that, you to keep Superfund from changing from For the past year-and-a-half, the Re- are saying that, your administration is a polluter pays program to one where publicans have ignored H.R. 228, the saying that, Carol Browner is saying the taxpayers pay the polluters. This that, President Clinton is saying that, bill based on the Coalition agreement. amendment would prohibit use of the we are all saying that. However, under Their substitute for the broad-based Superfund appropriation for payoffs to Mr. MARKEY’s amendment, oh, no, we agreement is no Superfund reform at polluters, very simply. This amend- do not want to provide any relief for all. In three months of negotiation, all ment would maintain the principle anybody, we want to keep it as it is be- we got was a three-page outline asking that major corporate polluters should cause we have just heard from another us which of their previously rejected pay to clean up the dangerous toxic colleague that the system is working solutions we wanted to take. waste sites they have created. quite well. Since the beginning of the 104th Con- I want to remind my Republican col- I do not know many people in Amer- gress, the majority has attempted to leagues, they are in the majority. If ica that think Superfund reform is find a way to let these corporate pol- they want to bring their bill to the working as intended, and believe me, it luters off the hook. Even though more floor, then do so. Until then, the Mar- was well intended, because we want to than 80 percent of Superfund toxic key-Pallone-Borski amendment will clean up toxic waste sites. That is very waste sites are located near drinking prevent this special treatment for spe- important to all of us. But the gen- water sources, they want to reduce cial interests. I urge support of this tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. MAR- standards for cleanup and use tax amendment. KEY] says things are all right and some money to pay polluters for the limited Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I rise of those people who are supporting his remaining cleanup. to strike the last word. amendment seem to conclude that it is The majority has tried and tried Mr. Chairman and my colleagues, I all right. again and then tried a third time to rise in strong opposition to the Markey The gentleman from Pennsylvania come up with a plan to help out cor- amendment. Before I get into the meat [Mr. BORSKI], the ranking member of porate polluters. They could have been of my argument, let me just make a the subcommittee I am privileged to developing a plan to let small busi- couple of points. chair, keeps coming up with the old nesses and municipalities escape the This is sort of grand theater here to- saw that we are going to pay polluters. Superfund liability web. They could night. We have witnessed that for the I would say to the gentleman that he have been developing a plan to help last 48 hours. What really disturbs the knows we have no intention of doing America’s urban communities develop new minority is that they are not yet so. The gentleman and I agree that their brownfields sites that are so im- adjusted to the fact that they are in that would be lousy policy, and, boy, portant for job creation. They could the minority, no longer in the major- we are not going to pay those pollut- have been developing a plan that would ity, and that the majority is stepping ers, nor should we. implement a fair share allocation plan up to the plate and addressing in a re- And guess what, fellow Republicans? that would eliminate the high trans- sponsible way very important environ- I know my colleagues have examined action costs resulting from the current mental issues. that idea and agree that we should not liability requirements. Unfortunately, For example, the new minority keeps pay them, but should we pay some li- none of these things have been done. saying the new majority wants to pay ability relief? You are darn right. Do H6926 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 my colleagues want to know why? Be- Mr. Chairman, this may never be- going to let the gentleman continue, cause the American people are sick and come law. My colleagues know how we because this is grand theater. tired of spending all of their time in deal in this institution. We may end up Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank the courts with their lawyers, every- never having this measure law, and if the gentleman from New York so body suing everybody and these toxic we never have this measure law and we much, because this goes right to the waste sites are not being cleaned up. go on with a continuing resolution, the heart of what we are talking about. What about my kids? What about my Markey language would prevail and Just for the record so that everyone grandchildren and future generations? never more could we provide any liabil- who is listening is not all confused, the We want to leave them with a cleaner, ity relief for small businesses and for Environmental Protection Agency a healthier, a safer environment. municipalities, those communities wrote yesterday that they support the Mr. Chairman, let me tell my col- across the country that are so hard- Markey amendment. leagues what is wrong with the Markey pressed to make ends meet. The CHAIRMAN. The time of the amendment. There is a lot wrong with And what would they have to do? gentleman from New York [Mr. BOEH- it. First of all, let me increase your They would have to go to their tax- LERT] has expired. (On request of Mr. MARKEY, and by comfort, because we are going to elimi- payers, their property taxpayers. What unanimous consent, Mr. BOEHLERT was nate any possibility whatsoever that a lousy way to raise money, increase allowed to proceed for 1 additional we can pay polluters, because I am their property taxes, all if this amend- minute.) going to offer a substitute amendment ment as proposed passes. But I do not Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I would pretty soon, and I am sure my col- think it is going to pass, because I ask the gentleman if he would continue leagues will support that, because we think people recognize that we have an to yield. are going to make it abundantly clear obligation to go forward in a respon- Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I to one and all and to history that no sible way. will continue to yield for 30 seconds, way are we going to pay polluters. We Now, to those who argue that we do because I want half of that time. This are going to make sure that retro- not have a plan to deal with the sub- is fairness. active liability discount scheme never ject, let me point out, a year ago I pre- Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, the De- surfaces again, nor should it. That is sented a plan, a very good plan that a partment of Justice as well also sup- good news. lot of people embraced. Now, you know ports the Markey amendment. Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, will what the Administrator of the Envi- Now, I know that the gentleman has the gentleman yield? ronmental Protection Agency said in some general language there from Mr. BOEHLERT. Only if you will sup- response to an examination of my Carol Browner speaking about him as port that amendment. plan? This is Carol Browner. I think an individual, and let me say this, the Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, toward she should be Secretary Browner, be- halo over his head could not be shinier the goal of supporting that amend- cause I think EPA is very important, after the last year and a half of mis- ment, I would just like to clarify. If the and I think it should be a Cabinet level sionary work. gentleman would yield, would the gen- agency. She said, Boehlert’s proposal is Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, this tleman’s amendment prohibit any re- something the Clinton administration is a good time to reclaim my time bates to polluters who have already would feel very, very comfortable with. since we are talking about the halo signed? It is a very attractive proposal. It goes over my head. I will reclaim my time, Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, re- a long way toward removing lawyers because that is a good note on which to claiming my time, I am glad the gen- from the system, and I think it is a close, referring to a halo over some- tleman brought that up. I am glad the wise and informed position. one’s head. Administrator Browner was gentleman brought that up, and re- Now, let me make this one point, this not talking about me, and I would ap- claiming my time, because my good one point. The point is, and this is why preciate any kind words she would care friend from Massachusetts brought me I say it is grand theater. It is disturb- to share about me, but she was talking to my next point, here is the deal ing to so many of my good friends on about the Boehlert proposal. That is very important. We want there, and it is very important to re- the other side of the aisle that Repub- meaningful Superfund reform. We want member this. licans are acting in a responsible man- a cleaner, safer, healthier environment We are opposing restrictions on li- ner dealing with an environmental for our kids and grand kids, and I think ability relief, as is the administration. issue, because guess what? My col- we can get it if we deal in a responsible Let me point that out. The administra- leagues on the other side of the aisle manner by voting for what I will soon tion wants to have some liability re- feel they own that issue, and we are offer as a responsible substitute to the lief. Because, guess what? Some people the bad guys, we are uncaring and in- Markey amendment. have stepped up to the plate, they have sensitive and we do not want to address Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Chairman, I move assumed their responsibility, they are in a responsible way the environment, to strike the requisite number of going to fulfill their responsibility. but that is wrong, we do, and we are words. The CHAIRMAN. The time of the proving it. Yesterday we proved it with Mr. Chairman, I must speak on this gentleman from New York [Mr. BOEH- safe drinking water legislation. Today bill, and I echo the words of the chair- LERT] has expired. we are proving it as we are urging with man of the subcommittee, the gen- (By unanimous consent, Mr. BOEH- all of the compassion that we can find tleman from Ohio [Mr. OXLEY]. If you LERT was allowed to proceed for 3 addi- that we have meaningful Superfund re- are on a train ride and year after year tional minutes.) form, and I say to the gentleman from you go on and you keep riding on this Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, let Massachusetts [Mr. MARKEY], his pro- train ride and it does not get to where me get to these points and then I will posal would not allow that. you want; what do you do? You stop be glad to yield to my friend because Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, will the train or you get off. This is where we are good friends and we work to- the gentleman yield? we are tonight. And what we have here gether on these things and usually on Mr. BOEHLERT. I yield to the gen- is a responsible bill that takes us off environmental issues we see eye to eye. tleman from Massachusetts. the train heading in the wrong direc- I do not know how the gentleman got Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank tion. misguided in this instance. the gentleman. I know that the gen- Superfund was hastily enacted in 1980 We want to say to people who have tleman is not acting in a deliberate at- following national publicity over a few stepped up to the plate and have ac- tempt to totally misrepresent what my chemical waste sites. Originally, EPA cepted their responsibility, good for amendment does; although he has, I got $1.6 billion in funding to clean up you, and if we pass legislation that pro- know it is not deliberate. So I welcome over 1,000 nationwide sites. As my col- vides some relief for small business, the opportunity to clarify for the gen- leagues can see from this chart, after that is going to allow some assistance tleman what it is that my amendment nearly 15 years and an estimated $20 to these small businesses. That is very does. billion in State and Federal and pri- important, and we are going to say Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I am vate funds spent on the Superfund Pro- something else. not going to reclaim my time, I am gram, less than 10 percent, less than 10 June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6927 percent of the 1,300 sites that the EPA Mr. BUYER. Mr. Chairman, I move to uor still has the risk of contamination has place on the Superfund national strike the requisite number of words. into the water because money is going priority list have been completely Mr. Chairman, I have to rise in oppo- to all these lawyers. It is all the law- cleaned up. sition to the Markey amendment here yers. Now, I do not think the taxpayers tonight. I did take special interest, I applaud the gentleman from Ohio would be happy with that if we spent though, when the gentleman from New because he chooses the environment. $20 billion and only 10 percent of the Jersey, Mr. PALLONE, spoke, when I no- He wants to side with the millions of sties were cleaned up, and that is what ticed and it first came to my attention people who live next to these this chart shows. Is that progress? Is that the gentleman from Massachu- Superfund sites. But what I find here that a train that is going in the right setts, Mr. MARKEY, had 32 sites in his today is the Democrats are siding with direction? Lord knows not. own district, of which only 2 had been the scroll and all the lawyers. The EPA originally estimated it cleaned up, and then when I noticed Everyone must agree that Superfund would take $7 million and 5 to 8 years the district of Mr. PALLONE, the 6th is broken and will require additional to clean up an average site. Today the District of New Jersey has 9 Superfund funding to fix it. We need to reform studies indicate an average of 11 years sites, zero have been completely Superfund, the joint and several liabil- and $25 to $40 million in cost per site; cleaned up, 7 of those sites came in ity, in order to immediately clean up estimates of the entire national clean- 1983. the Superfund sites by using Superfund up effort range from $300 billion to $1 Really, I find it very fascinating that business taxes to clean up these sites trillion. They are estimating it is going Members would want to defend the sta- rather than litigating and negotiating. to cost $1 trillion when Federal facili- tus quo when in fact so many This amendment would prevent sig- ties are included in the cleanup. Superfund sites have been on the books nificant reform of the current What this means is simple. The exist- for so long. If our commitment is to a Superfund liability system by prevent- ing Superfund Program must be re- healthier and safer environment, what ing these funds from being used to placed with a new program in which are we doing? Time out. What in fact clean up the sites. Instead, this amend- the benefits justify its costs, which is are we doing? ment will keep the status quo of taking equitable, cost effective, and limited in The purpose of Superfund is to pro- money from taxpayers and lining the size and scope when feasible. It should tect public health from the dangerous pockets of all of these lawyers. be targeted to address real, current, release of materials in a cost effective The list keeps going and going and and significant risks to human health manner. Sixteen years after the law growing as environmental law contin- and environments posed by the past was enacted, lawyers, not the environ- ues to grow. Forty-seven percent of all disposal of hazardous substances. Ret- ment, have become the big winners. of the money has gone to all these law- roactive liability, a joint and several What I have here is a scroll. On this yers instead of cleaning up all the liability must be remedied. We must scroll is a list of thousands and thou- sites. change and work on that, and the size sands of lawyers who have been re- One could say, ‘‘This is a little bit and scope of the Federal national prior- tained at over 1,300 of the Superfund about theater here tonight.’’ It is Mr. ity list should be kept. States should sites. Let me just continue on, and I Chairman. This is a little bit about be given the opportunity to delegate will speak as this goes on, and I will theater. But the reality and the fact fo implementation of the reforms of the move slowly and everybody in America the matter is that money that should Federal Superfund Program at the can read this list of lawyers. be going to make our enviroment sites, as well as provided with incen- Each year on average, only 5 sites are healthier and safer is going to line the tives to implement their own reform removed from the national priority pockets of trial lawyers, who will in programs in a fair and cost-effective list, and each year citizens pay $4.5 bil- turn send that money into many cam- manner. lion on the cleanup costs. That is be- Now, Mr. Chairman, this is what this paigns because the Democrats want the cause 47 percent of the total Superfund bil does, and what the gentleman from majority back. I think that is shame- costs are spent on lawyers and legal ex- less, that they would choose that over Massachusetts [Mr. MARKEY] does is re- turn us to the status quo, to the train penses. the environment. It is difficult right now for the Demo- that continues to go in the wrong di- I will stand with the environment, crat Party here because they have to rection after all of these years since and I applaud the gentleman from Ohio face a choice. The choice is between a 1980. So there is no use continuing to [Mr. OXLEY] here tonight. God bless constituency that supports them on throw money into this program with- you. Vote down the Markey amend- the environmental issues, that gives a out reform. ment. lot of money to their congressional Mr. ORTON. Mr. Chairman, I move to b 2015 campaigns, and trial lawyers who fund strike the requisite number of words. Mr. Chairman, this is why we need their campaigns with a lot of money. Mr. Chairman, I yield to my col- term limits around here. This is why What we have here are all these trial league from New Jersey, Mr. PALLONE, we need to change Congress and not lawyers, so I guess I have to assume out of courtesy inasmuch as he was re- have one party dominate Congress for that they are siding with the lawyers ferred to by the last speaker. 40 years, because they are on the same here tonight. Mr. PALLONE. I appreciate the gen- train going in the wrong direction. The liability aspect is so measured tleman’s yielding to me. There are no new ideas. that even local governments are being Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to say, But, lo and behold, the Republican sued millions of dollars on Superfund first of all, it is very easy to come on majority comes in, we have Chairman simply because they picked up the gar- the floor and start disparaging the law- OXLEY with new ideas and a new pro- bage. In Indiana alone, 32 Superfund yers. There are a lot of lawyers in- gram. And once and for all we start to sites are awaiting action. In my dis- volved in a lot of things in this place say this train is going in the wrong di- trict, we have Continental Steel in Ko- including on the floor of this House. rection, and we are going to move for- komo, IN. It has been on the national What did Voltaire say: the first thing ward, stop this train and move it in the priority list for 10 years. The Federal we do is kill all the lawyers. Maybe right direction. That is what this pro- Government has already spent nearly that is what the gentleman wants to gram does. So term limits is good for $13 million on contamination removal, do, but I do not think that is the issue Members and term limits is good for yet it is still considered worst on the here tonight. the majority after 40 years of the Indiana list. The issue here tonight is whether or Superfund Program. I applaud Chairman MIKE OXLEY for not the corporations and the individ- Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposi- having come to Indiana to actually uals who polluted these sites and cre- tion to the Markey amendment. I look at the Continental Steel site. I ated the mess are going to be respon- might point out that this program can imagine the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. sible for cleaning them up. If we elimi- be improved vastly, and I call for the OXLEY] can recall looking at the spent nate that as a basic tenet of the defeat of the Markey amendment and pickle liquor that was right next to Superfund Program, it will no longer passage of the Republican plan. Wildcat Creek. That spent pickle liq- be a viable program. The taxpayers will H6928 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 be basically paying for things that will cleanups stop. That is what the other sidered as read and printed in the not happen because there will not be side is all about. RECORD. enough money to do the cleanup. I have heard it said over and over The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection The gentleman mentioned my dis- again, we do not need a Superfund Pro- to the request of the gentleman from trict specifically. Of the nine sites in gram. Let the States do the job. The New York? my district, seven of them I mentioned job cannot be done by the States. If we There was no objection. are in various phases of cleanup but do not pass this amendment tonight, Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I most of them are in very advanced and we do not get away from this no- will not take the entire 5 minutes be- stages where they are actually doing tion that we are going to pay rebates cause I know the chairman and the just monitoring now of the overall pro- to the polluters, we are not going to ranking member of the committee gram. One site has actually been de- see the Superfund Program as a viable have been working very hard and we leted from the list. Again the gen- program anymore. That is the bottom have all been here for a long time on tleman talks about our side of the line. this very subject. It is an important aisle. This administration, as I said be- Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, will subject, so we should discuss it in de- fore, has done more cleanups in the the gentleman yield? tail. But all that needs to be said has last few years than have done in the Mr. ORTON. I yield to the gentleman been said pretty much. whole 10 years prior to that of the from New York. I would like to add just a couple of Superfund Program. It has also deleted Mr. BOEHLERT. I would like to re- thoughts. The Boehlert amendment more sites from the NPL list than any spond to the gentleman from New Jer- makes it absolutely clear once and for previous administration. So we are sey [Mr. PALLONE]. The proposal I ad- all that the retroactive liability dis- talking here about a Democratic ad- vanced last July which was spoken so count is dead. Please, no more stories ministration that cares about the pro- highly of by the Administrator of EPA about paying polluters. It is all over. gram, that believes in the program, would eliminate retroactive liability Finished. I never supported it in the that wants to make certain changes in for 250 codisposal sites across the coun- first place, and it is behind us. It has the program that are beneficial but try, the idea being to get small busi- been for 5 months. The negotiations still keep the program intact. nesses out from any liability and to get have gone forward on Superfund reform What you want to do tonight, and I communities out from any liability, without any discussion of retroactive am amazed when I listen to the debate have the trust fund pay for the clean- liability discounts. on the floor, is destroy and get rid of up, because I want cleanup just as the program. much as the gentleman does and this is Second, the Boehlert amendment I just wanted to make one additional a faster way to get the cleanup. preserves the right of Congress, that is comment again based on my friend Mr. PALLONE. If the gentleman will a very precious right, to develop bipar- from New York and what he said about yield further, I understand what the tisan Superfund legislation that will this codisposal option, because that up- gentleman is about, but the gentle- provide needed relief, liability relief to sets me a great deal. One of the sites man’s proposal is not necessary and is thousands of small businesses and that I have is in advanced stages of counterproductive. We can have ex- small communities across the country. cleanup in Edison, NJ. It is called the emptions for small businesses, we can We want to get them out of the courts, Kin-Buc site, one of the most hazard- have exemptions for municipalities. we want to get them out of the law of- ous sites, the most toxic sites in this The gentleman from Massachusetts fices, and we want to get the emphasis country. If any of you went there today [Mr. MARKEY] has indicated and I have on cleaning up toxic waste sites. I to see what has been done at that site, indicated and all of us have indicated think the Markey amendment would it is amazing how much cleanup, what that we do not have a problem with actually undermine the most impor- has actually been done. It not only that and this amendment does not pre- tant administrative Superfund reforms looks beautiful, it is working. The clude that. But if you go along with being sought by the Environmental Superfund Program works. But if what this codisposal site that basically says Protection Agency. I think we should the gentleman from New York [Mr. because municipal, household waste, move forward. This is a responsible BOEHLERT] described for codisposal whatever, goes into a landfill or a site pro-environment, pro-small business, were to come in play and become the and that means that there is no longer pro-small community substitute law, that site would never be cleanup liability for the people, the generators amendment, and I urge its adoption. up today. Because under his proposal, of most of the hazardous waste, then in Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I rise if there is any municipal waste or a effect what you are doing is eliminat- in opposition to the amendment. substantial amount of municipal waste ing liability for the corporations in the Mr. Chairman, let us just clear away, that goes to a landfill, which is what case of Kin-Buc, in my own district, if we could, a lot of the statements the Kin-Buc site is, then there is no that had to do the cleanup, and there is that have been made this evening longer any liability on the part of the not going to be the taxpayer money to about the nature of this amendment. polluters to clean up the site. If they do that cleanup. It will not happen. The gentleman from New York [Mr. have already spent money to spent AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. BOEHLERT AS A BOEHLERT] is not speaking about H.R. money to clean up, which they have SUBSTITUTE FOR THE AMENDMENT OFFERED 2500 when he talks about anything that done at Kin-Buc, then they get reim- BY MR. MARKEY Carol Browner has said. Any personal bursed, which is what this is all about, Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I remarks that Carol Browner may have rebates to the polluters. If on the other offer an amendment as a substitute for made about the gentleman from New hand they have not cleanup it up yet, the amendment. York [Mr. BOEHLERT] are deserved by then the responsibility is turned over The Clerk read as follows: him. But H.R. 2500 was in fact a bill to the taxpayers to pay the cost of the Amendment offered by Mr. BOEHLERT as a which Administrator Browner rec- cleanup. That means that cleanup does substitute for the amendment offered by Mr. ommended a veto on. A veto. not occur. MARKEY: Page 95, after line 21, insert the fol- If the gentleman from New York [Mr. The bottom line here, and I think ev- lowing: BOEHLERT] wants to associate himself eryone has to understand this, you SEC. 422. None of the funds made available with that bill, because that is what my to the Environmental Protection Agency eliminate the polluter pays principle. under the heading ‘‘Hazardous Substance amendment refers to, H.R. 2500. It re- You make these changes that they Superfund’’ may be used to implement any fers to provisions in H.R. 2500 that have to do the cleanup and you will not retroactive liability discount reimbursement allow for rebates to be given to pollut- see progress on Superfund sites. You described in the amendment made by section ers. If the gentleman from New York can talk here all you want about all 201 of H.R. 2500, as introduced on October 18, [Mr. BOEHLERT] wants to associate the lawyers and about the various 1995. himself with that portion which some- stages of cleanup and how you think Mr. BOEHLERT [during the reading]. how or other he has up on his board the program is not working. The bot- Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- over here with the gold star from Carol tom line is the program is working. sent that the amendment offered as a Browner, that is fine. Take credit for What you are proposing will make the substitute for the amendment be con- that. But we are not debating that this June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6929 evening, and we are not debating liabil- (Mr.. GILLMOR asked and was given Mr. Chairman, I will not use more ity for municipalities. We are not de- permission to revise and extend his re- than a minute or so. I wanted to point bating the whole long laundry list of marks.) out, I am amazed. I appreciate the fact issues that all of these Republicans Mr. GILLMOR. Mr. Chairman, I rise in oppo- that the gentleman from New York keep getting up and speaking about. sition to the Markey amendment. The Markey [Mr. BOEHLERT] is basically getting We are only debating one issue, the amendment continues to support a failed pro- this half right, I guess is the way to issue of whether or not tax dollars that gram when there are better alternatives avail- phrase it. But essentially what he is we need to balance the budget, that we able. This amendment ignores some simple doing here is eliminating the liability need to pay for Medicare, that we need and widely accepted facts about Superfund, or allowing rebates, if you will, for to pay for Medicaid, that we need to and unapologetically defends the failed status those who have entered into consent pay for inoculations of children are quo. orders and admitted liability. going to be spent to give money to pol- The Markey amendment preserves the cur- So if a polluter said, ‘‘Look, I did luters in cases where they have accept- rent retroactive liability systemÐa system that this,’’ and enters into the consent de- ed liability in curt to clean up a site has proven to be successful at enriching law- cree, then they can still get a rebate for which they are responsible. yers, but not in cleaning up the environment. check. For the life of me, I do not un- When Superfund was originally passed in b 2030 derstand why we should allow that if 1980, and when it was reauthorized in 1986, someone has admitted guilt, so to That, Mr. Chairman, is what this it was a program with great hope. The hope speak, and said that they contributed whole debate is about. was that the billions of dollars raised by the to the mess. Now, the Boehlert amendment deals corporate taxes in this program would go for I think it is commendable that the with H.R. 2500’s provision which allows cleaning up some of the Nation's most dan- gentleman is going halfway and agree- for the payment of money for polluters. gerous hazardous waste sites. Regrettably, ing with the rest of the Markey amend- What my amendment does out here on the promise was not met. ment, but I totally oppose the idea the floor, that he is seeking to amend, Superfund turned out to be an all-too-typical that just because there is a consent would prohibit any scheme ever to pay Federal Government program. First, it failed in order outstanding that someone has polluters. Now, there is a big difference its purpose. After 16 years and a cost of $15 entered into, that somehow that person between taking the Contract With billion, only 91 sites have been cleaned up. should continue to be able to get a re- America provision and Mr. BOELHERT Second, it was an all-too-typical Government bate. It goes against the grain in terms saying, well, I do not support that, and program because in the process of failing, it again of what the Superfund program taking any other provision which could consumed billions and billions of dollars. Third, is all about, and the idea is that those be constructed which would accomplish much of the money that was spent did not go who polluted should pay. the very same goal. for helping the environment. It went to enrich Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman I move That is why the Markey amendment attorneys and it went for regulatory and bu- to strike the requisite number of has to pass, or else the Boehlert reaucratic costs. This program must be re- words. amendment has just given a very tem- formed and we have a vehicle pending before (Mr. DINGELL asked and was given porary 60- or 90- or 120-day inoculation this Congress to reform it in the Commerce permission to revise and extend his re- to the Republican Party, pending Bob Committee. marks.) Dole’ election as President, they hope, The appropriations legislation offered here Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I have and then the bill can pass with only 51 to fund the U.S. Environmental Protection in my hands the two amendments percent of the vote. So we need the Agency [EPA] in fiscal year 1997 places a pri- which we are discussing. The first is Markey amendment to prohibit it, to ority on Superfund spending for actual clean- the amendment offered by the gen- make it part of the law, not just H.R. up, limiting the resources used for redundant tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. MAR- 2500, this concoction of wish lists by administrative and support services. I could KEY]. It is an excellent amendment. the polluters of America, fulfillment of not agree more with this strategy. I offered in What it does is it says that there can the Contract With America, but any the Commerce Committee, and the committee be no money paid to a fellow who has scheme which is constructed. accepted, these same provisions to the House polluted for cleaning up; he has to So I give the gentleman from New reauthorization and reform of the Superfund clean up after himself. York his due, and he deserves it, and program. I am glad the Appropriations Com- This reminds me of a wonderful sign the Republican Party deserves credit mittee has decided to accept this idea in the that I once saw on the wall. It said, for using the gentleman as a guard-all report language to this bill. ‘‘Your mother does not live here, so shield against their support for all of EPA says it is spending roughly about 65 you will have to clean up after your- the polluter-written legislation that percent of their Superfund budget on remedial self.’’ has been presented out on this floor actions, the rest going to administrative, re- What the gentleman from New York over this past year and a half. But even search, and oversight activities. However, only [Mr. BOEHLERT] wants to do and what the gentleman, in all of his sacrifice about 40 percent goes to actual cleanup. So, my Republican colleagues want to do is for the Republican Party, cannot pro- 60 percent winds up going to other activities. to modify that slightly. Mr. MARKEY tect them against H.R. 2500, even as the Environmental protection, especially when it says that if you pollute, you cannot get gentleman brings out his good report comes to Superfund, should not be just paid for cleaning up. The gentleman card from Carol Browner on the things spending money, but in spending money wise- from New York says that. Now, the that he does support. ly for environmental cleanup. gentleman from New York has then es- H.R. 2500 the gentleman opposes, I A vote for the Markey amendment is a vote tablished that he is half right, and for hope, because Carol Browner said that against reform of Superfund. The major prob- that we should salute him because it is it should be vetoed, and if you did not, lems with Superfund are its liability determina- quite a rarity in a Republican Congress then fine, there is an area of agreement tion, retroactive liability, and a failed method of for a Republican to be half right. that you have with the Republican remedy selection. If you really care about the Having said that, we come to the sec- Party, but not with the environmental- environment, you want the limited resources ond part, however, which the gen- ists of our country, not with the EPA, we have spent for dealing with real environ- tleman from New York has stuck in and not with anyone that wants to see mental needs, and not wasted. The money there. I always thought the gentleman the sites in this country that have been ought to go to pay the people who move dirt, from New York was a very smart fel- polluted by chemical companies, by oil and clean up the actual sites, and not go to low, and I still do, but something hap- companies, cleaned up. the consultants and lawyers. A ``no'' vote on pened here tonight that I cannot ex- Mr. Chairman, I hope that this this amendment coupled with the passage of plain and perhaps he can. What he says amendment is not allowed to in any real reform in Superfund will be good for the is, but if you have made a settlement, way interfere with our ability to also environment, and especially it will be good for then the Government is going to pay ensure that the Markey amendment is the people who live near these sites. you to clean up and give you a rebate included as part of this law. Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Chairman, I for cleaning up after you have made a Mr. GILLMOR. Mr. Chairman, I move move to strike the requisite number of mess and after you have been forced to strike the last word. words. into a settlement. H6930 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 I do not understand why we should would permit continued consent de- [Roll No. 277] pay a wrongdoer who has made a mess crees to be entered into with the hope AYES—45 and not settled, and I do not under- that some relief will be provided in the Baker (CA) Hoekstra Pombo stand why a fellow who has made a near future, because the Democrats Barton Hostettler Portman mess and then settled should be paid. It and the Republicans are very actively Brownback Inglis Radanovich just does not follow and it does not seeking Superfund reform legislation Bunning Istook Ramstad make good sense. this year. Campbell Johnson, Sam Roemer Chabot Kasich Rohrabacher Now, I have enormous respect for the What the Markey amendment will do Roth gentleman from New York [Mr. BOEH- Coburn Klug is provide a disincentive for anyone to Cox Largent Royce Sanford LERT]. He is a very wise and very good settle and to begin to clean up, because Crane McIntosh Sensenbrenner Member of this body, and I salute him Dreier Metcalf they are going to hold out hope that Shadegg Meyers for the good work that he has done some day in the future this will hap- Duncan Smith (MI) over the years. But tonight he has pen. I want to get in with Superfund Graham Minge Souder things a little wrong. What we really Gutknecht Myrick Tiahrt cleanup so that we can have a cleaner, Hamilton Neumann Upton need to address is to understand that healthier, safer environment for our Herger Petri there are two situations where a pol- kids and our grandkids. luter could profit under this legisla- Mr. DINGELL. Reclaiming my time, NOES—372 tion. The first is where he has gone out I thank the gentleman, but what the Abercrombie Cunningham Hansen and made a dirty mess, risked the lives gentleman from New York would do is Ackerman Danner Harman of the people, contaminated the water, Allard Davis Hastert to give forgiveness and absolution Andrews de la Garza Hastings (FL) polluted the air, dirtied up a major retroactively. area, threatened the life and well-being Archer Deal Hastings (WA) It isn’t what we are going to do pro- Armey DeFazio Hayworth of the people, and under the Republican spectively that my good friend from Bachus DeLauro Hefley idea we will then pay them for cleaning Baesler DeLay Hefner New York would address, it is that that up and having put large numbers Baker (LA) Dellums Heineman which has already been done. He is of people at risk. This will look very Baldacci Deutsch Hilleary going to catch a bunch of rascals and Ballenger Diaz-Balart Hilliard good on their balance sheets, and I am scoundrels who polluted and go out and Barcia Dickey Hinchey sure my Republican colleagues like make them whole for what they have Barr Dicks Hobson that. Barrett (NE) Dingell Hoke already agreed to clean up. Having said that, Mr. Chairman, it Barrett (WI) Dixon Holden must be observed, however, that the The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Bartlett Doggett Horn the amendment offered by the gen- Bass Dooley Houghton gentleman from New York [Mr. BOEH- tleman from New York [Mr. BOEHLERT] Bateman Doolittle Hoyer LERT] would address that, and for that as a substitute for the amendment of- Beilenson Dornan Hunter we should salute him. But it is so that Bentsen Doyle Hutchinson he does not address the other equally fered by the gentleman from Massachu- Bereuter Dunn Hyde important situation which arises under setts [Mr. MARKEY]. Berman Durbin Jackson (IL) Bilbray Edwards Jackson-Lee the bill. That is, that a polluter who The amendment offered as a sub- stitute for the amendment was agreed Bilirakis Ehlers (TX) has cut a deal and has agreed that he Bishop Ehrlich Jacobs has done something wrong and has to. Bliley Engel Jefferson agreed freely that he, along with other The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Blumenauer English Johnson (CT) the amendment offered by the gen- Blute Ensign Johnson (SD) polluters, will then clean up, is going Boehlert Eshoo Johnson, E. B. tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. MAR- to get a rebate. Now, that may be a Bonilla Evans Johnston splendid idea if you are a polluter, but KEY] as amended. Bonior Everett Jones from the standpoint of the taxpaying The amendment, as amended, was Bono Ewing Kanjorski public and from the standpoint of peo- agreed to. Borski Farr Kaptur Boucher Fattah Kelly SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE ple who have to pay the taxes for the Brewster Fawell Kennedy (MA) cleanup, it does not make good sense, OF THE WHOLE Brown (CA) Fazio Kennedy (RI) because what it does is it diverts mon- The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Brown (FL) Fields (LA) Kennelly eys from an already short Superfund Resolution 456, proceedings will now Brown (OH) Filner Kildee resume on those amendments on which Bryant (TN) Flanagan Kim into the paying off of wrongdoes. That Bryant (TX) Foglietta King is wrong. further proceedings were postponed, in Bunn Foley Kingston Now, if we need to address the ques- the following order: the amendment of- Burr Forbes Kleczka tion of Superfund, we ought to be ad- fered by the gentleman from Minnesota Burton Ford Klink dressing it in the committee. My Re- [Mr. GUTKNECHT], and the amendment Buyer Fowler Knollenberg Callahan Fox Kolbe publican colleagues have run the com- offered by the gentleman from Penn- Calvert Frank (MA) LaFalce mittee now for almost a year and a sylvania [Mr. WALKER]. Camp Franks (CT) LaHood half. There is no Superfund bill. My The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes Canady Franks (NJ) Lantos good friend from New York, the gen- the time for any electronic vote after Cardin Frelinghuysen Latham tleman from New York [Mr. BOEH- Castle Frisa LaTourette the first vote in this series. Chambliss Frost Laughlin LERT], got up and castigated the Demo- AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. GUTKNECHT Chapman Funderburk Lazio crats because we have not gotten a bill. The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Chenoweth Furse Leach Now, it may be that he does not know ness is the demand for a recorded vote Chrysler Gallegly Levin Clay Ganske Lewis (CA) that the Republicans control this Con- on the amendment offered by the gen- gress, but believe me, and I will tell Clayton Gejdenson Lewis (GA) tleman from Minnesota [Mr. Clement Gekas Lewis (KY) him now, they do. As a matter of fact, GUTKNECHT] on which further proceed- Clinger Gephardt Lightfoot I understand the distinguished gen- ings were postponed and on which the Clyburn Geren Linder tleman from New York is a subcommit- Coble Gilchrest Lipinski noes prevailed by voice vote. Collins (GA) Gillmor Livingston tee chairman on the Committee on The Clerk will redesignate the Transportation and Infrastructure. Collins (IL) Gilman LoBiondo amendment. Collins (MI) Gonzalez Lofgren Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- The Clerk redesignated the amend- Combest Goodlatte Longley tleman from New York for purposes of Condit Goodling Lowey ment. explaining what he is doing tonight, I Conyers Gordon Lucas will be very happy to do so because I RECORDED VOTE Cooley Goss Luther The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Costello Green (TX) Maloney notice he is standing and I do have Coyne Greene (UT) Manton great respect for him. been demanded. Cramer Greenwood Manzullo Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I A recorded vote was ordered. Crapo Gunderson Markey thank the gentleman for yielding. The vote was taken by electronic de- Cremeans Gutierrez Martinez Mr. Chairman, I would just like to vice, and there were—ayes 45, noes 372, Cubin Hall (TX) Martini point out that what I am proposing not voting 16, as follows: Cummings Hancock Mascara June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6931 Matsui Pickett Stokes [Roll No. 278] Dooley Livingston Regula McCarthy Pomeroy Studds Durbin Lofgren Rogers McCollum Porter Stump AYES—245 Edwards Lowey Rose McCrery Poshard Stupak Allard Franks (CT) Miller (FL) Engel Maloney Rush McDermott Pryce Talent Andrews Franks (NJ) Minge Eshoo Manton Sabo McHale Quillen Tanner Archer Frisa Molinari Evans Markey Sanders McHugh Quinn Tate Armey Funderburk Moorhead Fattah Martinez Sawyer McInnis Rahall Tauzin Bachus Gallegly Morella Fazio Matsui Schroeder McKeon Rangel Taylor (MS) Baker (CA) Ganske Myrick Fields (LA) McCrery Scott McKinney Reed Taylor (NC) Baker (LA) Gejdenson Nethercutt Filner McDermott Serrano McNulty Regula Tejeda Baldacci Gekas Neumann Foglietta McKinney Sisisky Meehan Richardson Thomas Ballenger Geren Ney Ford McNulty Skaggs Meek Riggs Thompson Barcia Gilchrest Norwood Frank (MA) Meehan Skeen Menendez Rivers Thornberry Barr Gillmor Nussle Frelinghuysen Meek Slaughter Mica Roberts Thornton Barrett (NE) Gilman Orton Frost Menendez Smith (WA) Millender- Rogers Thurman Barrett (WI) Goodlatte Oxley Furse Millender- Spratt McDonald Ros-Lehtinen Torkildsen Bartlett Goodling Parker Gephardt McDonald Stark Miller (CA) Rose Torres Barton Goss Paxon Gonzalez Miller (CA) Stokes Miller (FL) Roukema Torricelli Bass Graham Petri Gordon Mink Studds Mink Rush Towns Bateman Green (TX) Pombo Gutierrez Moakley Stupak Moakley Sabo Traficant Bentsen Greene (UT) Porter Hamilton Mollohan Tanner Molinari Salmon Velazquez Bereuter Greenwood Portman Harman Montgomery Tejeda Mollohan Sanders Vento Bilbray Gunderson Pryce Hastings (FL) Moran Thompson Montgomery Sawyer Visclosky Bilirakis Gutknecht Quinn Hefner Murtha Thornton Moorhead Saxton Volkmer Bliley Hall (TX) Radanovich Hilliard Myers Thurman Moran Scarborough Vucanovich Blute Hancock Ramstad Hinchey Nadler Torres Morella Schaefer Walker Boehlert Hansen Richardson Houghton Neal Towns Murtha Schiff Walsh Boehner Hastert Riggs Hoyer Oberstar Velazquez Myers Schroeder Wamp Bono Hastings (WA) Rivers Jackson (IL) Obey Vento Nadler Schumer Ward Brewster Hayworth Roberts Jackson-Lee Olver Visclosky Neal Scott Waters Brownback Hefley Roemer (TX) Ortiz Volkmer Nethercutt Seastrand Watt (NC) Bryant (TN) Heineman Rohrabacher Jefferson Owens Walsh Ney Serrano Watts (OK) Bunn Herger Ros-Lehtinen Johnson, E. B. Packard Ward Norwood Shaw Waxman Bunning Hilleary Roth Johnston Pallone Waters Nussle Shays Weldon (FL) Burr Hobson Roukema Kaptur Pastor Watt (NC) Oberstar Shuster Weldon (PA) Burton Hoekstra Royce Kennedy (MA) Payne (NJ) Waxman Obey Sisisky Weller Buyer Hoke Salmon Kennedy (RI) Payne (VA) Wicker Olver Skaggs White Callahan Holden Sanford Kildee Pelosi Williams Ortiz Skeen Whitfield Calvert Horn Saxton Kleczka Peterson (MN) Wilson Orton Skelton Wicker Camp Hostettler Scarborough Klink Pickett Wise Owens Slaughter Williams Campbell Hunter Schaefer Knollenberg Pomeroy Wolf Oxley Smith (NJ) Wilson Canady Hutchinson Schiff LaFalce Poshard Woolsey Packard Smith (TX) Wise Castle Hyde Schumer Lantos Quillen Wynn Pallone Smith (WA) Wolf Chabot Inglis Seastrand Levin Rahall Young (AK) Parker Solomon Woolsey Chambliss Istook Sensenbrenner Lewis (CA) Rangel Pastor Spence Wynn Chenoweth Jacobs Shadegg Lewis (GA) Reed Paxon Spratt Young (AK) Chrysler Johnson (CT) Shaw NOT VOTING—18 Payne (NJ) Stark Young (FL) Clinger Johnson (SD) Shays Payne (VA) Stearns Zeliff Coble Johnson, Sam Shuster Becerra Fields (TX) McDade Pelosi Stenholm Zimmer Coburn Jones Skelton Bevill Flake McIntosh Peterson (MN) Stockman Collins (GA) Kanjorski Smith (MI) Browder Gibbons Mica NOT VOTING—16 Combest Kasich Smith (NJ) Christensen Hall (OH) Peterson (FL) Condit Kelly Smith (TX) Coleman Hayes Roybal-Allard Becerra Fields (TX) McDade Cooley Kennelly Solomon Farr Lincoln Yates Bevill Flake Peterson (FL) Cox Kim Souder Boehner Gibbons Roybal-Allard Crane King Spence Browder Hall (OH) Yates Crapo Kingston Stearns b 2107 Christensen Hayes Cremeans Klug Stenholm Coleman Lincoln Cubin Kolbe Stockman So the amendment was agreed to. Cunningham LaHood Stump The result of the vote was announced b 2100 Danner Largent Talent as above recorded. Davis Latham Tate Messrs. LAHOOD, DELLUMS, PE- Deal LaTourette Tauzin PERSONAL EXPLANATION TERSON of Minnesota, VISCLOSKY, DeLauro Laughlin Taylor (MS) Mr. FARR of California. Mr. Chairman, I was CHRYSLER, and COOLEY of Oregon, DeLay Lazio Taylor (NC) Diaz-Balart Leach Thomas inadvertently detained during rollcall vote No. and Mrs. CHENOWETH changed their Dickey Lewis (KY) Thornberry 278. Had I been present I would have voted vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Doolittle Lightfoot Tiahrt ``no.'' So the amendment was rejected. Dornan Linder Torkildsen Doyle Lipinski Torricelli Mr. COOLEY of Oregon. Mr. Chair- The result of the vote was announced Dreier LoBiondo Traficant man, I move to strike the last word. as above recorded. Duncan Longley Upton Mr. Chairman, I rise today to express my AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. WALKER Dunn Lucas Vucanovich Ehlers Luther Walker sincere reservations about the bill before us The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Ehrlich Manzullo Wamp today, the fiscal year 1997 VA, HUD and inde- ness is the demand for a recorded vote English Martini Watts (OK) pendent agencies appropriations bill. on the amendment offered by the gen- Ensign Mascara Weldon (FL) Everett McCarthy Weldon (PA) This bill provides desperately needed fund- tleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. WALK- Ewing McCollum Weller ing to help our Nation's veterans deal with ER] on which further proceedings were Fawell McHale White their health needs, assist them in housing postponed and on which the ayes pre- Flanagan McHugh Whitfield costs, and allow them to meet their edu- vailed by voice vote. Foley McInnis Young (FL) Forbes McKeon Zeliff cational goals. These measures are not only The Clerk will redesignate the Fowler Metcalf Zimmer worthwhile, but necessary because they live amendment. Fox Meyers up to our Government's obligation to those The Clerk redesignated the amend- NOES—170 who gave valiantly in the defense of this great ment. Nation. Unfortunately, this bill does much Abercrombie Brown (FL) Costello RECORDED VOTE Ackerman Brown (OH) Coyne more than meet these worthwhile objectives. The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Baesler Bryant (TX) Cramer The bill before us also provides funds for been demanded. Beilenson Cardin Cummings dozens of other bloated, unrelated agencies Berman Chapman de la Garza A recorded vote was ordered. Bishop Clay DeFazio which serve as a black hole for our citizen's The CHAIRMAN. This is a 5-minute Blumenauer Clayton Dellums hard-earned tax dollars. These agencies in- vote. Bonilla Clement Deutsch clude the Office of Science and Technology, The vote was taken by electronic de- Bonior Clyburn Dicks Community Development Financial Institutions, Borski Collins (IL) Dingell vice, and there were—ayes 245, noes 170, Boucher Collins (MI) Dixon the Council on Environmental Quality, and the not voting 18, as follows: Brown (CA) Conyers Doggett National Science Foundation. H6932 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 Perhaps the most difficult task for me is to amendments thereto be limited to 10 not very much, but for real working justify the inclusion of the Environmental Pro- minutes, the time to be equally divided families back in Illinois and through- tection Agency and AmeriCorps into this omni- and controlled. out this country who are struggling to bus bill. I have serious concerns about these The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection make ends meet, $200 is a lot of money two agencies, their ability to spend the public's to the request of the gentleman from each year. money wisely, and the choices they make in California? This amendment is needed to pro- carrying out their mission. Unfortunately, I There was no objection. mote home ownership, helping Amer- have to vote for them as part of this bill. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman ican families pursue the American Although it will be difficult, my dedication to from Illinois [Mr. WELLER] and a Mem- dream because we all recognize that honoring this country's promise to its veterans ber opposed, each will control 5 min- strengthening home ownership supersedes my concerns about these mis- utes. strengthens families, and when some- guided agencies. However, I would like to The Chair recognizes the gentleman one owns a home in a community, that state for the record that I am voting for veter- from Illinois [Mr.WELLER]. strengthens their communities. ans, not bureaucrats at the EPA and b 2115 This amendment is needed like many AmeriCorps. undisturbed that we see a decline in By forcing the representatives of the people AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. WELLER home ownership, particularly among to vote for this voluminous bill, we are denied Mr. WELLER. Mr. Chairman, I offer the young. Statistics show that home an opportunity to more closely scrutinize the an amendment. ownership rates among heads of house- way the people's money is being spent, and The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- holds under 35 years of age is three- ordered to vote in favor of a bill which sets our ignate the amendment. fourths of what it was in 1979. In fact, deeply held beliefs in conflict. In the future, I The text of the amendment is as fol- in 1979, 45 percent of heads of house- hope that we can revisit the appropriations lows: holds under 35 were homeowners. process in order to create more cohesive, and Amendment offered by Mr. WELLER: Today, in 1995, this past year, 39 per- carefully scrutinized, bills. SEC. . FHA MORTGAGE INSURANCE PRE- cent of heads of households under 35 Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- MIUMS.—Section 203(c)(2)(A) of the National were homeowners. We have seen a 9- man, I move to strike the last word. Housing Act (12 U.S.C. 1709(c)(2)(A)) is percent drop. Mr. Chairman, I rise really to discuss amended by inserting after the first sentence Over the past 6 months as interest the remaining business, briefly, to give the following new sentence: ‘‘In the case of mortgage for which the mortgagor is a first rates have gone up, we have seen about 1 Members a sense for the time that we time homebuyer who completes a program of a 1 ⁄2 percent rate increase on home may have left. If you would like to dis- counseling with respect to the responsibil- mortgage rates. That averages out to cuss the time that we have left, I would ities and financial management involved in about a $1,000 a year increase in home be glad to try. homeownership that is approved by the Sec- ownership costs for the average family Before we get to that point, the gen- retary, the premium payment under this and the average home loan. Unfortu- tleman from Ohio [Mr. STOKES] and I subparagraph shall not exceed 2.0 percent of nately, we did not reach a balanced have talked a lot about this new envi- the amount of the original insured principal budget agreement this year which obligation of the mortgage.’’. ronment between both sides on this ap- would have brought down interest propriations bill, of which we are very Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, I reserve rates, but we are still working on that, appreciative. I must say that there is a point of order on this amendment. and this effort will help reduce those one more item that has added greatly The CHAIRMAN. A point of order is costs. to the work that we have done and fa- reserved by the gentleman from Min- As I pointed out, interest rates, cilitated the process as much as pos- nesota [Mr. VENTO]. mortgage rates have gone up 1 to 11⁄2 sible in this environment. I hope the The Chair recognizes the gentleman percent, driving up the average cost a Members will express their apprecia- from Illinois [Mr. WELLER] for 5 min- thousand dollars a year, or about $85 a tion for a very, very fine job of utes. month for the average home mortgage. chairing this committee during this Mr. WELLER. Mr. Chairman I yield This amendment restores oppor- very difficult process by the gentleman myself such time as I may consume. tunity, my colleagues. Let us help as- from Texas. Before I begin discussing my amend- piring potential home buyers afford a At this point, we are aware of just ment I do want to take a moment and new home. Let us help reduce their five more amendments. We understand commend the chairman of the sub- costs and give them a $200 break on the sponsors will agree to a time agree- committee, the gentleman from Cali- their closing costs as well as a $200 ment as follows: One amendment each fornia [Mr. LEWIS] and also the ranking break in their annual costs of FHA in- for the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. member, the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. surance. As we know, increased home KINGSTON] and the gentleman from In- STOKES], for their leadership and their ownership strengthens communities. diana [Mr. ROEMER], the gentleman management of this particular bill. I I do want to point out this amend- from Illinois [Mr. WELLER], the gen- think they have gone out of their way, ment has bipartisan support, is basi- tleman from Utah [Mr. ORTON], and the Mr. Chairman, to work towards bipar- cally identical to what the President gentlewoman from Texas [Ms. JACK- tisanship. endorsed a few weeks ago in his initia- SON-LEE], and each amendment will be Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment tives. I ask for bipartisan support. Let considered for 10 minutes equally di- that helps working families by working us help working families afford a home. vided, 5 minutes on each side for each towards expanding homeownership op- Let us strengthen communities, amendment, and we could take less portunities for first-time home buyers strengthen home ownership. Let us than that, by the way. by working to lower the up-front costs make home ownership more affordable. Mr. OBEY. Mr. Chairman, let me sug- for FHA loans. This amendment, which Mr. Chairman, I ask for bipartisan gest, I know that Mr. STOKES and ev- has bipartisan support, I would like to support and I reserve the balance of my eryone else on this side of the aisle point out, Mr. Chairman, would lower time. would like to be cooperative in work- the FHA mortgage insurance premium Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, I move to ing this out. I want to see the gentle- for first-time home buyers to get own- strike the last word. man’s request approved. ership counseling. Currently the maxi- Mr. Chairman, I am reserving my I think there is an impediment to mum rate is 21⁄4 percent of the loan point of order. that right now. If the gentleman could value. This amendment would reduce I would point out that this obviously withhold that for a few moments and if that to 2 percent, saving the average goes beyond the scope of appropriating we could get a unanimous consent for FHA homeowner about $200 a year and and into policy areas, much of which the next amendment only, while it is $200 towards their up front closing the committee, the principal commit- worked out, I think we might save a costs, and of course counseling, work- tee on which I serve and many others lot of time. ing with these aspiring homeowners, in this body, has not dealt with. Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- would help reduce the default rate. Mr. Chairman, under that reserva- man, I ask unanimous consent that de- Some in Washington would call $200 tion I would just point out that this bate on the Weller amendment and all probably chump change, saying that is change, a good change, and I might say June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6933 that Mr. WELLER has been an ally in That is why I am proud to stand with Today it is a real struggle for many support of the FHA program, and I and my good friend from Illinois and Mem- families to be able to afford a home. other Members have noted that and ap- bers on both sides of the aisle in sup- We are seeing that as taxes are too preciate it, and this does follow, as he port of the Weller amendment. high, interest rates are too high and had mentioned, a policy administration Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, I yield working families’ incomes are being action by President Clinton 3 weeks myself such time as I may consume. squeezed. Many cash-strapped young ago to in fact reduce the up-front costs Mr. Chairman, I would just point out working families are struggling, trying in terms of FHA. to my colleagues that the history of to obtain a home and pursue the Amer- So normally important that program this began in the early 1980’s with an ican dream. to affordable housing in this country, up-front premium payment to FHA. Last year, thanks to FHA, we saw and although this is out of scope, I un- Now, they in fact took the entire pre- 850,000 families had the opportunity to derstand that there has been agree- mium and pulled it into the mortgage, purchase a home thanks to FHA, and ment. I do not want to stand in the thereby creating a negative net worth 250,000 of them would not have had the way of the agreement; I want to be in terms of the loan-to-value ratio. opportunity to own a home unless we part of the home ownership, increasing That in essence, I think, added to some had the FHA single-family 100 percent national home ownership opportuni- of the problems with FHA, although loan guarantee program. It is an im- ties. FHA was never in the red. It was al- portant mission, and if we want to help Last week Secretary Cisneros visited ways in the black. Studies came out young families, young working fami- my district and outlined just such a with projections that cast a shadow on lies, young cash-strapped working fam- program and other programs that have the FHA single family, the M–1 fund. ilies afford the American dream, we achieved that. In fact, the Clinton ad- Mr. Chairman, in the early 1980’s, I need to help them out. At this time ministration has had great success think in the name of making symbolic when interest rates are going up, let us since initiating this, with 1.4 million deficit reduction, the policy was give them a break, help reduce their families since 1995 achieving or obtain- changed to collect an up-front pre- closing costs by $200. ing home ownership because of the mium on FHA. We changed that policy, I ask bipartisan support for his positive interest rates and other fac- on a bipartisan basis, myself and the amendment. I appreciate the biparti- tors in the economy. Member, the Governor now of Penn- san support we have received. So I join the gentleman and want to sylvania, Tom Ridge, in a conference The CHAIRMAN. The question is on commend him, but I would hope that committee led by the gentleman from the committee of jurisdiction would the amendment offered by the gen- Texas [Mr. GONZALEZ] and others, and I ELLER]. deal with the comprehensive FHA for- tleman from Illinois [Mr. W think that it is noteworthy that we can The amendment was agreed to. mula. We sent a bill over there 2 years now reduce further the up-front pre- AMENDMENTS OFFERED BY MR. ORTON ago that substantially raised the aver- mium. I hope that some day we can age loan, raised the ceilings, did a vari- eliminate it completely, reducing that Mr. ORTON. Mr. Chairman, I offer ety of things that would have accorded as a necessary cash and liability prob- two amendments, and I ask unanimous opportunity for home ownership, and lem, and convert this back to what it consent that they be considered en the problem with these sort of bits and was on a pay-as-you-go basis in terms bloc. pieces of amendments that are coming of the insurance premiums for FHA. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the floor today, I know good in their And as I voiced earlier, the fervent to the request of the gentleman from own vein, they simply frustrate the desire to modernize this program so it Utah? overall modernization of the FHA pro- can begin to serve families across this There was no objection. gram, which I might say is healthy, is country; in my State, because of the The Clerk read as follows: vital, is serving people in this country value of homes, it serves about 40 to 50 Amendments offered by Mr. ORTON: and is something that they need. percent of the market. In most of our Page 95, after line 21, insert the following So if my colleagues care about home States and jurisdictions it does not be- new section: ownership in this country, we ought to cause home costs are higher, and so the SEC. 422. (a) AUTHORITY TO USE AMOUNTS BORROWED FROM FAMILY MEMBERS FOR be supporting a strong revitalized FHA average middle-income American that program. It is healthy. It deserves that DOWNPAYMENTS ON FHA-INSURED LOANS.— is desirous of a home loan is not able to Section 203(b)(9) of the National Housing Act support. achieve the benefits of FHA with this With that said, Mr. Chairman, I with- (12 U.S.C. 1709(b)(9)) is amended by inserting low down payment and the insured na- before the period at the end the following: ‘‘: draw my reservation of a point order. Provided further, That for purposes of this The CHAIRMAN. The Chair grants ture that it carries. It has been a marvelously successful paragraph, the Secretary shall consider as the gentleman from Minnesota [Mr. program. It has in fact been the most cash or its equivalent any amounts borrowed VENTO], in order to make his state- successful program in the history of from a family member (as such term is de- ment, the 5 minutes in opposition to fined in section 201), subject only to the re- this Nation in terms of providing home the amendment. quirements that, in any case in which the re- The gentleman may reserve the bal- ownership. payment of such borrowed amounts is se- ance of that time if he so wishes. Again, I commend the gentleman cured by a lien against the property, such Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, I reserve from Illinois [Mr. WELLER] for his pur- lien shall be subordinate to the mortgage the balance of the time. suit not just of this amendment this and the sum of the principal obligation of Mr. WELLER. Mr. Chairman how evening but his general support for the mortgage and the obligation secured by much time is remaining? FHA. such lien may not exceed 100 percent of the The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman Mr. ORTON. Mr. Chairman, will the appraised value of the property plus any ini- tial service charges, appraisal, inspection, from Illinois [Mr. WELLER] has 2 min- gentleman yield? Mr. VENTO. I yield to the gentleman and other fees in connection with the mort- utes remaining. gage’’. Mr. WELLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield from Utah. Mr. ORTON. Mr. Chairman, I will be (b) DEFINITION OF FAMILY MEMBER.—Sec- 1 minute to the gentleman from Ari- tion 201 of the National Housing Act (12 zona [Mr. HAYWORTH]. very brief just in stating my support U.S.C. 1707) is amended by adding at the end Mr. HAYWORTH. Mr. Chairman, I for the amendment. Indeed the Presi- the following new subsections: thank my colleague from Illinois for dent has, as indicated, indicated that ‘‘(e) The term ‘family member’ means, yielding this time to me. he would do this administratively. I be- with respect to a mortgagor under such sec- Mr. Chairman, we do not need a lieve it is good to put it in statutory tion, a child, parent, or grandparent of the whole minute to say this. We just need language. I support the amendment by mortgagor (or the mortgagor’s spouse). In to reiterate this one key point: $200 is the gentleman. determining whether any of the relation- a lot of money to hard-working fami- Mr. WELLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield ships referred to in the preceding sentence lies in the United States of America, exist, a legally adopted son or daughter of an myself as much time as I might individual (and a child who is a member of and for people to have the opportunity consume. an individual’s household, if placed with to buy a home for the first time this Mr. Chairman, in closing let me just such individual by an authorized placement amendment would empower those peo- be very brief. Let us get to the bottom agency for legal adoption by such individ- ple. line here. ual), and a foster child of an individual, shall H6934 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 be treated as a child of such individual by to be issued by the authorizing lender. lieve that the Weller amendment and blood. This will save time, costly delays, it the Orton amendment are good mod- ‘‘(f) The term ‘child’ means, with respect will save administrative costs to the ernization. They improve the FHA, to a mortgagor under such section, a son, FHA. they expand home ownership, and I stepson, daughter, or stepdaughter of such mortgagor.’’. My third part of the amendment would urge adoption of the amend- Page 95, after line 21, insert the following would be to change the downpayment ments. new section: requirements. Right now there is a pro- The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman SEC. 422. Sections 401 and 402 of the bill, hibition for downpayments made, in- from Texas [Mr. DELAY] insist on his H.R. 1708, 104th Congress, as introduced in cluding a loan from a parent. My point of order? the House of Representatives on May 24, 1995, amendment would allow parental loans Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I with- are hereby enacted into law. to be included by the purchaser of the draw my point of order. Mr. ORTON [during the reading]. Mr. home. Right now, parental loans are The CHAIRMAN. Does any Member Chairman, I ask unanimous consent prohibited. You cannot acquire a home seek recognition in opposition to the that the amendments be considered as under an FHA guaranteed loan if you amendment? read and printed in the RECORD. have borrowed a parental loan for part The question is on the amendments The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection of the downpayment. offered by the gentleman from Utah to the request of the gentleman from I believe we should not be telling par- [Mr. ORTON]. Utah? ents they cannot loan money to chil- The amendments were agreed to. There was no objection. dren. This would not in fact weaken AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. ROEMER b 2130 the safety and soundness of those Mr. ROEMER. Mr. Chairman, I offer loans. You can borrow money now from amendment No. 40. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a third party. Why can you not borrow The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- a point of order on the amendments. money from a parent? It is more likely ignate the amendment. Mr. ORTON. Mr. Chairman, I will ex- that the parent would step in and help The text of the amendment is as fol- plain my amendments. They are really if that loan became troubled, anyway. lows: very simple. There are three parts. The HUD supports all three of these Amendment No. 40 offered by Mr. ROEMER: reason I am offering them at this point amendments. They are supported on a At the end of the bill, insert after the last is, following the Weller amendment, bipartisan basis. All three reduce costs, section (preceding the short title) the follow- which has just been adopted, which in administrative bureaucracy, reduce ing new section: SEC. . None of the funds made available in fact does legislate on this appropria- time. These amendments all were in- tion bill, I acknowledge that mine does this Act for the National Aeronautics and cluded in the housing bill which was Space Administration may be used to carry also, but I believe that it is important passed by this House in 1994 but stalled out, or pay the salaries of personnel who to do this, to make changes, to mod- because it was not adopted by the carry out, the Bion 11 and Bion 12 projects. ernize and improve and update the other body. Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- FHA program. Mr. Chairman, I would urge adoption man, if the gentleman from Indiana Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- of my en bloc amendment. will yield, we have agreed upon a time sent, in light of the unanimous consent Mr. BENTSEN. Mr. Chairman, will limitation of 10 minutes for each of agreement that had been attempted to the gentleman yield? these items. I just want to make sure be reached, that all time on these Mr. ORTON. I yield to the gentleman that is all right with the gentleman amendments that I am offering be lim- from Texas. from Indiana. ited to 10 minutes, divided between the Mr. BENSTEN. Mr. Chairman, I just Mr. ROEMER. I have not been privy two sides. want to speak to the second amend- to that time limitation, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman ment the gentleman is offering. I of- I have been patiently waiting for the from Utah [Mr. ORTON] ask for 5 min- fered a similar amendment to the USA last 5 hours to offer the amendment, utes each, including the time that the Housing Act that we did, which does and sat through a very interesting and gentleman has consumed? allow for these contributions for down- intriguing Superfund debate and FHA Mr. ORTON. Yes, Mr. Chairman. payment assistance for people who debate. I have a number of cosponsors The CHAIRMAN. And any amend- want to purchase public housing units. who may want to speak, so I would ob- ments thereto? This is what State and local housing ject. Mr. ORTON. Yes. agencies are doing around the country. I may not use more than 10 or 11 min- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection It makes eminent sense. I commend utes on my side. to the request of the gentleman from the gentleman for offering his amend- Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, will the Utah? ment. gentleman yield? There was no objection. Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, will the Mr. ROEMER. I yield to the gen- Mr. ORTON. Mr. Chairman, I yield gentleman yield? tleman from Ohio. myself such time as I may consume. Mr. ORTON. I yield to the gentleman Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, the gen- Very briefly, Mr. Chairman, my from Minnesota. tleman will recall when the ranking amendment does three things to mod- Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, I com- member of the full Committee on Ap- ernize and improve FHA. First, it sim- mend the gentleman. We have worked propriations, the gentleman from Wis- plifies the downpayment requirement on these amendments for 2 years. Un- consin [Mr. OBEY], was on the floor a of FHA. It is a very complex two-part fortunately, this year we have not had little while ago, he made reference to downpayment requirement. This sim- any hearings on FHA, but these are the fact that we would not at this time plifies it to a simple one-part calcula- good amendments. They ought to be in- be able to enter into a time agreement, tion. It retains essentially the same corporated. I still am concerned about indicating that, obviously, some work downpayment requirements, but does the modernization of the broader FHA was going toward that end, but at the so in a more simple manner. It will program. It is desperately needed. But current time we just cannot agree. save costs and save time. the gentleman has worked hard on Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- The second part would also change these amendments, they are a sim- man, the gentleman from Wisconsin the provisions of issuing the mortgage plification, and they actually facilitate [Mr. OBEY] and I have had the discus- insurance certificates. Right now, home ownership. I commend him. sion and the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. qualified lenders who make FHA loans Mr. ORTON. I thank the gentleman STOKES] and I have an understanding. I have the right to authorize the loan. from Minnesota for his statement. I, would suggest, short of that, that prob- They make the determination who is too, share the gentleman’s concern. We ably at this hour it would be delete- eligible for the loan. But the actual do need to have an FHA modernization rious to go too much longer. FHA insurance certificate is issued by bill enacted through the committee Mr. ROEMER. I will try to limit de- HUD. and brought to this full floor of the bate as much as I can, Mr. Chairman. My second portion of the amendment House. I would encourage our commit- Mr. Chairman, I offer this amend- changes that and allows the paperwork tee to do so. Until that is done, I be- ment in the spirit of bipartisanship on June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6935 behalf of the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. Mr. Chairman, let us stop the mon- simply because people do unnecessary GANSKE], the gentleman from Min- key business at NASA. Let us get this experiments. That is exactly the pur- nesota [Mr. MINGE], and the gentleman 400-pound gorilla off the taxpayers’ pose of the Roemer-Ganske amend- from Wisconsin [Mr. NEUMANN]. This is backs, and let us do the right thing. ment, is to eliminate an unnecessary, a bipartisan amendment to try to save Let the Russians spend their rubles on cruel animal experiment when it is not the administration some money. a barrel of monkeys, and let us move going to benefit mankind in the future. Many of our constituents across the forward and balance the budget for That is the reason we need the Roemer- country, in California, are just getting hardworking taxpayers. Ganske amendment. I appreciate the home from a hard day’s work and may Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- gentleman yielding to me. be watching C–SPAN right now. People tleman from Iowa [Mr. GANSKE]. Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- on the second shift in Indiana, working Mr. GANSKE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in man, I move to strike the last word. in the afternoon in a factory, might be support of the Roemer-Ganske amend- (Mr. BROWN of California asked and just tuning in to C–SPAN right now. I ment. Let us be clear about one thing, was given permission to revise and ex- encourage them to turn their TV up Bion 11 and 12 are really not about tend his remarks.) and listen to this debate. science, they are about subsidizing the Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- My amendment, the amendment of- Russian space program. NASA plans to man, I would like to first start out by indicating the very high regard I have fered by the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. spend $35 million to launch two Rus- for the gentleman from Indiana [Mr. GANSKE], this bipartisan amendment sian-owned rhesus monkeys on a Rus- ROEMER]. He has been more diligent, I simply says that NASA can no longer sian spacecraft. Does NASA really ex- think, than any Member that I know of spend $15 million to send to Russia to pect to learn something new about the send to Russia to send monkeys up into in seeking to find and to curtail unnec- effects of extended weightlessness on essary or undesirable expenditures, and space. humans by studying monkeys for 2 Many people sitting in their living I have very high respect for him for weeks? Twenty-three years ago this rooms might be turning their volume that. He has also brought into question type of research may have made sense. up right now and saying, we do what? those programs which, in his eyes, de- Since then, humans have stayed in We send hard-earned taxpayers’ dollars serve to be reviewed as perhaps being space more than a year, as my col- from NASA to Russia, when they of lesser priority than other programs. should be using rubles to send monkeys league has mentioned. Even members This, too, is a very important exercise up into space? of the science community have ex- for any Member of Congress. He does Mr. Chairman, I do not think we pressed doubts about this project. Ear- this in a way which exemplifies the should be doing that as we work toward lier this year, the President’s science very best in congressional conduct. He a balanced budget, as we make tough adviser wrote to the NASA adminis- is a true gentleman, and I respect him spending cuts here in America. This trator. for that. Bion program, as it is called, sends The CHAIRMAN. The time of the Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, I can- monkeys up into space of 14 days at a gentleman from Indiana [Mr. ROEMER] not agree with all of the decisions that time. One mission is due to go up in has expired. he comes to with regard to the goals August 1996. Another is due to go up in Mr. GANSKE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in which he is seeking. For example, he July 1998. We send these monkeys up in support of the amendment. announced that in this amendment, he space for 14 days. We have had human Mr. Chairman, I will be brief. The was seeking to save money for the beings up in space for 439 days now, but President’s science adviser wrote to American taxpayers. His amendment we want to study the gravitational ef- the NASA administrator and said, ‘‘I saves no money whatsoever for the fects, or the Russians want to study sympathize with your concern that the American taxpayers. It does prohibit the gravitational effects, of 14 days lost era of primate research is now behind $15 million from being spent on the in space on monkeys. us and that it may be time to retire Bion 11 and 12 projects, but that mere- Back in the 1960’s, Mr. Chairman, those animals.’’ ly means that NASA can use that same with Alan Shepherd going into space in Mr. Chairman, as we struggle to bal- amount of money for whatever else it May of 1961, and we did not know too ance the budget and set priorities, we wishes to. much, we did not have Mir, we did not owe it to the American people not to Mr. ROEMER. Mr. Chairman, will the have shuttles, we did not have the abil- continue spending money on unneces- gentleman yield? ity to study this, maybe doing some sary research like this project. Let us Mr. BROWN of California. I yield to the gentleman from Indiana. joint ventures with the Russians in the stop this wasteful handout to the Rus- Mr. ROEMER. Mr. Chairman, I thank cold war and maybe studying monkeys sian space industry and save $15.5 mil- lion. Think of those poor little mon- the gentleman for his kind words. I in space made some scientific sense. In hold the former chairman of the com- 1996, when we have sent up 162 people keys. Think of those little monkeys with the probes drilled into their mittee in even higher esteem than he into space, for us to be now spending knows. $15 million on monkeys going from the heads, floating around weightless up former Soviet Union into space, I there. Just say no to this monkey busi- b 2145 would think the American people ness. But in clarifying what the gentleman would be outraged by that. Mr. ENSIGN. Mr. Chairman, will the has just outlined, what my amendment Mr. Chairman, I hear from NASA gentleman yield? does is that it says that NASA cannot that they are looking at a study. They Mr. GANSKE. I yield to the gen- send $15 million to Russia to send up want to study this and see if this is the tleman from Nevada. monkeys into space, but they might be appropriate thing to do. It is one mis- Mr. ENSIGN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in able to keep it within the NASA ac- take to make the $15 million go to strong support of the Roemer-Ganske count to spend on shuttle safety or on NASA and then go to the Russians to amendment. As one of the two veteri- science projects. That is the intention put monkeys in space. We do not need narians in the House of Representa- of my amendment, to keep it in NASA, to further complicate this and have a tives, many of us who went through ei- but not to send it to the former Soviet study done to see whether or not this is ther veterinary school or medical Union. the right thing to do. Let us, as Mem- school learned a lot about using ani- Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- bers of Congress, end this program mals for medical research. There are man, reclaiming my time, the gentle- now. We cannot afford $15 million for animals used in medical research all man’s statement that it would save monkeys to be sent up into space from the time. Dr. GANSKE and myself are money is, in effect, not exactly apt. Russia. We have joint ventures with strong supporters of using animals for Mr. ROEMER. Mr. Chairman, if the the Russians, with Chernobyl, with the medical research when it is indicated, gentleman would continue to yield, my Space Station that I disagree with, and only when it is indicated, and obvi- statement would be that the American with dismantling nuclear weapons, and ously to do it in a humane way when taxpayers work very hard for the $15 million to send monkeys up into we do that. money they send here, and they prob- space does not make any common I think one of the reasons for the ani- ably would like to see it spent on shut- sense. mal rights movement over the years is tle safety or on science like the Galileo H6936 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 program, but not on Russian monkeys we have had human beings in space is tough decisions here in Congress in going up into space. a substitute for animal research. That that regard. Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- is just not the situation. For that reason, I urge the support of man, again reclaiming my time, I will Now, I would point out that amongst this amendment so that we no longer accept the gentleman’s restatement of all of the areas of research in space, have Federal programs which are held the value of his amendment, namely that which every person thinks is the in ridicule in the popular media, and that it will allow the money to be most important is the research on we spend a tremendous amount of time spent on higher projects. I disagree human beings and on those materials trying to rationalize and justify pro- very strongly with that also. which might be of benefit to human grams but, instead, cut back to the On the other hand, we have had two beings which can only be achieved in very essence of what the space program gentlemen here who speak to the prob- space. is about. lem of the treatment of the animals. I Mr. Chairman, we are not going to Mr. ROEMER. Mr. Chairman, will the would like to indicate that I have spent achieve the value of this biological re- gentleman yield? most of my legislative life, the last 35 search unless we are able to use experi- Mr. MINGE. I yield to the gentleman years, in trying to project the treat- mental animals. I have observed the from Indiana. ment of animals. I am the author of treatment of experimental animals in Mr. ROEMER. Mr. Chairman, I thank the Humane Treatment of Laboratory every kind of condition. As a part of the gentleman for yielding and for his Animals Act, which is currently on the the legislation that I enacted, there is help in cosponsoring this amendment. books. With Senator Dole, I offered the a requirement that there be a veteri- What the gentleman from California Humane Slaughter Act quite a few narian, for example, in every research outlined to us, I do not disagree too years ago. In the State legislature of establishment which uses animals. I much with what he said. But within California I offered similar legislation have visited these and consulted with NASA there are probably only 100 high- with regard to the treatment of ani- the veterinarians who monitor this re- er priorities than this sending monkeys mals, and I have tried to remain ex- search. I have seen dogs, I have seen into space for the Russians. There are tremely sensitive to all of those groups monkeys which have been incised and only probably one million higher prior- who are concerned about the safety, sensors put into their stomachs and ities within our own budget with $15 treatment, and care of animals. I have into their lungs and in other places to million, and certainly there are three devoted quite a bit of effort to that. observe the conditions that exist for or four higher priorities for joint Unit- So whether we want to approach this the benefit of human beings. Most of ed States-Russian cooperation from the from the standpoint of how the animals this is done at research hospitals fre- Nunn-Lugar language to dismantle nu- are treated or the value of the science, quently associated with our veterans clear weapons, from the research we I am willing to address it in either of health program. It is there that we are are doing on Chernobyl, from the dif- these directions. But going back to the learning some excellent things about ferent and important things that we do matter of the value of the research, the reaction of human beings to a num- in energy cooperation. this is probably the longest standing ber of conditions based upon the re- I think that this is one of the lowest research program in NASA’s agenda. It sults we get with animals. priorities that we can possibly have in goes back to 1973. It is a program in Mr. Chairman, we are getting exactly expenditures of taxpayers’ money. I which the Russians are partners and the same kind of research in space. We would encourage my colleagues to vote the French are partners, and they are are treating the animals exactly the to get the monkey off of NASA’s back both deeply concerned about the ques- same. They are under the supervision and get the 400-pound gorilla off the tion of biological reactions in space. of skilled veterinarians. They are sub- taxpayers’ backs. It involves more than monkeys, inci- ject to review by science peer review Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- dentally. It involves other forms of ani- panels to determine if all of the proto- man, I rise to strike the requisite num- mals and includes plant life, for exam- cols are being met. ber of words. ple, because we still do not understand There is no program in the last 25 Mr. Chairman and my colleagues, I the reaction of living organisms to the years that has been more thoroughly listened to my colleague who presents environment of space. Despite the fact explored, been more thoroughly mon- this amendment with great care. I that we have sent 152 people into space, itored and checked and peer reviewed know that one of his very serious prior- we cannot treat humans as animals. to determine both the conditions of the ities is that of addressing the question They are instrumented, and the instru- animals and the results of the research. of NASA’s work in space. I must ex- mentation is for their own safety and On the basis of all of these things, press my appreciation to him this year protection. They are monitored for there is a practically unanimous agree- for not presenting his amendment to pulse, respiration, heartbeat, all of ment that we cannot stop this inter- eliminate the space station, which has these things in order that observers on national health research program with- been kind of a consistent pattern. Mon- the ground can determine if there is out doing great damage to the goals keys in space is probably a better sub- any problem with their condition in that we seek to achieve in space. ject, but I would urge my colleagues to space. For these reasons, Mr. Chairman, I focus just for a moment upon the very We have sent some of our finest doc- earnestly solicit opposition to this fine words of my colleague, the gen- tors into space to study the astronauts, amendment, which, despite my high re- tleman from California [Mr. BROWN], but you cannot use them as laboratory gard for its author, has absolutely no the former chairman of the Committee animals, you cannot instrument them redeeming features. on Science. to determine a large number of reac- Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- We all know that with the time that tions that you can observe in instru- ance of my time. men have spent in space up to this mented animals. Mr. MINGE. Mr. Chairman, I move to point, there are a number of serious In addition to that, the astronauts strike the requisite number of words. difficulties and questions we have rel- themselves cannot be subject to anes- Mr. Chairman, I would like to indi- ative to their potential impact upon thesia or other treatment; in fact, they cate that I have joined with the gen- the health of those men and women are given drugs that inhibit some of tleman from Indiana [Mr. ROEMER] in who will spend lots of time in space in the effects of space in order that they sponsoring this amendment. Over the the future. may perform their other missions. last many years we have seen former That is what the space station is The CHAIRMAN. The time of the Senator Proxmire talk about the Gold- about. It is a significant piece of our gentleman from California [Mr. BROWN] en Fleece Award. I think that we have commitment to NASA’s work; it is a has expired. a responsibility in Congress to make very important part of our leadership (By unanimous consent, Mr. BROWN sure that funds are spent in the most in the future. was allowed to proceed for 3 additional frugal and responsible of fashions. If we The fact that we are involved in this minutes.) are trying to balance the budget, we kind of work with Russia and other of Mr. BROWN of California. Mr. Chair- must have the confidence of the Amer- our allies relates very much to that man, we cannot say that the fact that ican people that we have made the partnership that itself interrelates to June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6937 space station. So one more time, I ap- are not related to protecting the envi- direction. If the office of compliance preciate the gentleman not presenting ronment, a lot of extracurricular ac- can spend their money on going after an amendment that would eliminate tivities. Some are social in nature, things of this sort and not requiring space station. But the more we can un- many are political in nature. compliance with cleaning up the envi- dermine our effectiveness in dealing What I am trying to do with my ronment and the air, there is some- with human space flight, the better, I amendment is limit EPA to its mission thing wrong in the system. would suppose. statement, and that is cleaning the en- I support the effort of the gentleman In this case we are talking about vironment and not getting involved in from Georgia [Mr. KINGSTON]. Other ef- first a very short-term experiment that all other causes and problems of the forts have been made to try to get that did send monkeys into space with world. agency which is off course, on course. measuring devices. After gathering Mr. MICA. Mr. Chairman, will the It is our responsibility to direct that that data along with a lot of other gentleman yield? agency in the way it expands our tax- data, we have a process whereby there Mr. KINGSTON. I yield to the gen- payers’ hard-earned dollars. I support is a panel of experts who will review all tleman from Florida. that agency, I will do anything I can to of that data and suggest where we can Mr. MICA. Mr. Chairman, first I want help our environment but this agency go with the next step to make certain to thank the gentleman from Georgia has to have direction. that we are taking every precaution [Mr. KINGSTON] for this amendment. It Finally, there are almost 18,000 peo- that saves human lives as they partici- is an amendment that should pass ple in EPA. Twelve years ago there pate in our work in space. overwhelmingly because EPA is off were about 6,000. There are 6,000 now in It is simple to laugh at something track. Washington, DC. These people have to like this, especially if you do not care Now, I am a Republican, I have chil- find something to do. Eighteen thou- about the program. It is easy to joke dren and I support the mission of EPA. sand people on the payroll and they are about Russia, I suppose, if you do not That mission is to clean up our envi- not in your States. They are in re- care about those international partner- ronment, to clean up our land and our gional offices and they are right here, ships. But indeed this is not a laughing water, to clean up our air. But some- 6,000 of them, within 50 miles of where matter. We are talking about one of how that mission has gone astray. Let I am speaking. They need direction. This Congress’ America’s very, very future programs me give a couple of good examples. responsibility is to give them direc- dealing with our future horizon. We b 2200 should lay the foundation to make cer- tion. They should not be doing the things they are doing. They should be tain that we are doing everything to Mr. Chairman, I want to point out cleaning up the environment. I support protect those men and women who will how EPA spends some of its money. the Kingston amendment and urge its participate on behalf of American in- Let me cite what EPA did to me, for example, with some of these funds. adoption. terests. I believe in the most sincere The CHAIRMAN. The time of the and strongest terms that I would urge They sent an invitation around the Hill gentleman from Georgia [Mr. KINGS- Members to reject this amendment. and they sent invitations to my office TON] has expired. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on inviting us to attend an event. The (By unanimous consent, Mr. KINGS- only problem is that they sent it to me the amendment offered by the gen- TON was allowed to proceed for 1 addi- with the names of my two past oppo- tleman from Indiana [Mr. ROEMER]. tional minute.) The question was taken; and the nents as staff assistants. Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, what Chairman announced that the noes ap- So EPA was keeping a list of politi- we are talking about is use of Govern- peared to have it. cal opponents, sending an invitation to ment telephones, copying machines, Mr. ROEMER. Mr. Chairman, I object me with the name of two people, one fax machines, E-mail, internal mail to the vote on the ground that a who was going to run against me, did distribution systems, electronic bul- quorum is not present and make the not file, and another one who filed and letins and so forth, all funded with tax- point of order that a quorum is not ran against me. Is this the right use of payer dollars and yet being used not present. taxpayer money? for their intended purposes of cleaning The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House Let me give another example. Here is up the environment. Resolution 456, further proceedings on EPA Watch, which watches over EPA I am very concerned about this. At a the amendment offered by the gen- and reports on their activities. EPA time when EPA is saying they do not tleman from Indiana [Mr. ROEMER] will signed a contract with PTA—and I am have enough money to clean up toxic be postponed. a past card-carrying member of PTA, I waste and so forth, they should not be The point of no quorum is considered have children, I have belonged to the engaged in extracurricular activity withdrawn. association—but they signed a grant, such as political activities and social AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. KINGSTON and basically the purpose of the grant agendas. Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. Chairman, I was to get PTA to organize lobby But realizing that the scope of EPA’s offer an amendment. against any of the proposals that we involvement in nonenvironmental ac- The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- made for changes in the operations of tivities is so extensive, I do not know ignate the amendment. EPA. Is that the right thing to do with that my amendment adequately ad- The text of the amendment is as fol- the money? dresses it. It is a very big problem, Mr. lows: Listen to this. This is what EPA Chairman. I think that this Congress Amendment Offered by Mr. KINGSTON: page Watch says: should revisit it and do it extensively, 95, after line 21, insert the following new sec- Congressional sources close to the illegal but at this time I think that I am tion: lobbying issue expressed amazement that going to withdraw my amendment and SEC. 422. None of the funds made available EPA, after all the scrutiny it has undergone, in this Act may be used by any officer or em- maybe take another route at another would dare to fund a newsletter with such an date. ployee of the Environmental Protection obvious political mission. agency to organize, plan, or disseminate in- Mr. FOGLIETTA. Mr. Chairman, I rise to formation regarding any activity if it is I am for cleaning up the environ- speak against the amendment offered by Mr. made known to such officer or employee that ment. I am for clean air, for clean KINGSTON. such activity is not directly related to gov- water. I want my children to inherit a I am afraid that some of us are allowing the ernmental functions that such officer or em- better land. But what are they doing politics of division and intolerance to blind us ployee is authorized or directed to perform. with taxpayers’ hard-earned money? from common sense. Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, I am We just heard an amendment about What happened here was very simple. An going to go very quickly. What this sending monkeys into space. E-mail went over the computers of the EPA amendment does is it limits EPA em- I submit, Mr. Chairman, that this is merely informing workers that it was Gay ployees and funds going to EPA for monkey business in EPA that should Pride Month. business purposes only, EPA purposes. stop, that in fact we should pass the This effort attempts to strike out at this trivia It has come to my attention that EPA Kingston amendment, that we should with an amendment that is overbroad and is involved with a lot of activities that bring some sense, some purpose, some heavy handed. H6938 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 Let's think about what it could stop EPA are in need of public housing differ, as response to balancing section 8 certifi- staffers from doing. They can no longer join well. cates with the building of replacement together on blood drives, charitable events, This amendment simply provides op- units for public housing units. going-away parties for employees, Black His- portunity for our local housing au- Mr. BENTSEN. Mr. Chairman, will tory Month, Earth Day, staff sports clubs, and thorities to include amongst the reso- the gentlewoman yield? so much more. lution to their housing problems re- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield Do we really want to do this? placement of those units that they to the gentleman from Texas. There are benefits in employees bonding to- would demolish with new units. It does Mr. BENTSEN. I thank the gentle- gether on community events. And as long as not preclude the use of Section 8 cer- woman for yielding. it does not get in the way of workÐdissemi- tificates. It simply adds to the usage of Mr. Chairman, let me just say, there nate information about such events in a non- replacing units by new units. It par- are a couple of important points that costly way. This is valuable, just as there is ticularly applies to those communities she made. This does not bring back value in communities gathering together to ex- with a shortage of decent and afford- one-for-one replacement. It does bring press pride in themselves. able housing for low-income families back substantial replacement. This is We have so many things to do in this and a waiting list of at least 6,000 fami- similar to what HUD is doing in the House. This is a waste of our time. Vote lies for public housing. city of Houston, as it relates to Allen against the Kingston amendment. Let me share briefly the story of Park Village which was torn down, Mr. KINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, I ask Houston, TX, a city of 1.6 million citi- which has been a problem in Houston, unanimous consent to withdraw the zens in a country of some 3 million but HUD has agreed to come back and amendment. citizens, with a public housing stock in build 500 units. It is also commensurate The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection Houston of only 3,125 units. Presently with what we have done in the USA to the request of the gentleman from there are 12,000 individuals and families Housing Act with severely distressed Georgia? on the waiting list for public housing. housing. I think this amendment is im- There was no objection. The list was closed in 1994. If the list portant to the city of Houston and AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MS. JACKSON-LEE OF were still open, that number would other cities that have like situations. I TEXAS have doubled by now. commend my colleague from Houston Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. This amendment is a fair and reason- for offering the amendment. Chairman, I offer an amendment. able response to saying to our local- Mrs. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chair- The Clerk read as follows: ities with waiting lists that they must man, I move to strike the last word. include in their policy the opportunity Amendment offered by Ms. JACKSON-LEE of I just want to make a few favorable Texas: Page 95, after line 21, insert the fol- for the replacement of housing units. comments on the Jackson-Lee amend- lowing new section: I am not against section 8 vouchers. ment from her long experience in SEC. 422. None of the funds made available I think they have been effective. But in working with residents of public hous- in this Act may be used to provide assistance our community and many others, the ing and with municipalities. I think under section 8 of the United States Housing waiting list for section 8 vouchers is that the general concept is good on Act of 1937 when it is made known to the enormous, as well. Section 8 vouchers both sides. I think the housing bill Federal official having authority to obligate now in Houston are 15,335. which is before this committee, is a or expend such funds that— But the real question becomes the good bill, but I think my col- (1) the assistance will be used for tenant- flexibility of individuals to live in har- based assistance in connection with the revi- HEILA JACKSON-LEE, has hit on mony and where they would like to league,S talization of severely distressed public hous- live. I think we are all well aware of a a need here, particularly in smaller ing; and southern municipalities, that this cer- (2) the public housing agency to which situation that occurred in Pennsylva- nia recently. That had to do with an tainly is overlooking. such funds are to be provided— Her amendment brings into consider- (A) has a waiting list for public housing of African-American woman named not less than 6,000 families; Bridget Ward who was forced to leave ation the fact that we have an incom- (B) has a jurisdiction for which the Sec- her home in a predominately white ing flux of new citizens coming into retary of Housing and Urban Development neighborhood becasue the neighbor- some of the southern cities and many has determined (pursuant to section hood residents were opposed to any in- of them are of various ethnicities, and 203(e)(2)(A) of the Housing and Community certainly in terms of financial stabil- Development Amendments of 1978 or other- dividuals living in their neighborhood who received section 8 assistance. ity, many of them are below the pov- wise) that there is not an adequate supply of erty level. habitable, affordable housing for low-income It does not mean we pull back from So, I think what Ms. SHEILA JACK- families using tenant-based assistance; and section 8 assistance. It simply means (C) does not include, under its plan for re- that there is some validity to replacing SON-LEE sees, that this will take a cer- vitalization of severely distressed public some of those demolished units in our tain trend and there will not be any re- housing, replacement of a substantial por- communities with new units. placement of these homes. I can under- tion of the public housing dwelling units de- I would ask my colleagues in their stand exactly what he is talking about molished with new units. revie of this amendment to be assured when I go through my city. I see a lot Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas (during that it has the flexibility to provide of them boarded up and many of them the reading). Mr. Chairman, I ask HUD with all of the flexibility that are really too good to be destroyed. It unanimous consent that the amend- they need. That is, of course, to deter- seems to me that private entrepreneurs ment be considered as read and printed mine, one, that there is a waiting list are taking advantage of these places in the RECORD. of 6,000 or more; that there is no habit- that the Government has spent so The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection able housing in that particular area; much money for all of these years. to the request of the gentlewoman and to be able to suggest that if that is They are replaceable and they are good from Texas? the cae, then we should have for revitalization. I think my colleague There was no objection. replacment hosing as well as the utili- is saying, let us take the policy so that Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. zation of Section 8. it can include some other people, be- Chairman, let me first emphasize and That is different now because in most cause we have a differentiated type of make it perfectly clear that the of the communities that I have heard population. It is not standard. People amendment that I offer is not a return from, there is a belief that there should still need public housing. to one-for-one replacement. My amend- be no replacement housing, and there We understand that this flies in the ment is simply giving hope to the is a chilling effect on new units. Many face of a policy that was passed, which homeless and the housing underserved communities that are not the urban I did not agree with from the begin- in this country. centers of our Northwestern States, ning, that we should cut out all of the We recognize that our country has a some of the Midwestern communities, public housing. very diverse housing stock. Miami dif- some of the Southern cities are still in I think that the committee should fers from New York, Houston differs need of building public housing. look at this. The amendment is not a from Detroit, Los Angeles differs from I would hope my colleagues would harsh amendment, as I see it. It does Atlanta. The need of our citizens who join me in viewing this as a reasonable not ask for a lot, except that we keep June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6939 that little window open so that we but the difficulty we have relative to urge the gentlewoman, if she can with- could replace some of these. some of our most important housing draw her amendment, that the chair- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. programs that need to be taken care of man and I would continue to try and Chairman, will the gentlewoman yield? by way of the authorizing process. work this problem out for the gentle- Mrs. MEEK of Florida. I yield to the There is little question that we have woman. gentlewoman from Texas. difficulty with public housing across Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. the country that has been long ne- Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Chairman, I appreciate the gentle- glected, where buildings are boarded Mr. LEWIS of California. I yield to woman’s explanation. Might I say in a up, and on the other hand we have a the gentlewoman from Texas. statement partly made by HUD, it indi- shortage of housing availability for Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. cated that HUD agrees that in tight people who have stopped becoming part Chairman, I thank the esteemed rank- housing markets with long public hous- of lists because the list are too long, as ing member from Ohio for his words of ing waiting lists, it generally makes you have suggested. concern. Recognizing, of course, that sense to replace severely distressed I am very empathetic to that prob- all of us come from communities that public housing with a mix of tenant- lem, but I am afraid your amendment, may be favorably impacted by rec- based assistance and hard units. as I can best interpret it, might very ognizing the need of responding to Might I say that HUD seems to think well find ourselves moving back in the waiting lists 6,000 and above, which is that that practice goes on today. But I direction of the one-to-one replace- one element of this amendment, and as think the gentlewoman’s example of in ment policy position that we just well recognizing that we should not some communities there is a chilling moved aside or tried to set aside or get have a singular policy that eliminates effect because they believe that there rid of. One-to-one replacement in the replacement offer puts replacement is no one-for-one replacement and, past simply said that if we were to under section 8 or section 8 over re- therefore, are not inclined to provide eliminate or tear down a dilapidated placement. I would hope and would ap- some of the hard units. public housing unit that we had to re- preciate then if we could have, one, a This amendment again is not a re- place it with another unit. What really continued dialogue, but that we could turn to one-for-one. It simply says to happened, because there was no fund- work through conference to solve a our communities that we can balance ing available, is that led to a scourge problem that is not necessarily only relevant to my community or my section 8, a very useful tool, section 8, across the country with public housing State. with the utilization of the replacement having a blight placed upon it as people I find that throughout the country looked at boarded-up facilities and of some units. It does not give you one- there are small communities, middle- wondered what are these people doing? for-one, it simply says some units, so sized cities that are losing housing that this can be balanced. So we are attempting to move in a di- units because there is a chilling effect I think the gentlewoman’s expla- rection that makes some sense. My col- because they believe there is a sole pol- nation on that is extremely important, league, at the same time, is faced with icy that says do not replace any of so that it is not presented to our col- a very real shortage problem in her your public housing units. That is very, leagues that we are returning to one- community, as I am in my community. very bad for our families that are on for-one. Not at all. We are simply say- It is a problem that we have to deal the waiting lists, so much so that they ing that you can balance that utiliza- with. It is a problem that potentially are no longer even allowed to get on tion. could lead to a lot of expenditure, and waiting lists because they are closed. Mrs. MEEK of Florida. If I may re- frankly, I think it has higher priority So I would ask the chairman for his claim my time, first of all it is so im- than some of our other expenditures. commitment to work on this issue that portant that we understand in housing, But within this bill at this point in is extremely important, I think, na- one size does not fit all. No matter time, frankly we are not in a position tionwide, and I want to thank the gen- what the housing policy is, you will to effectively implement that which tleman from Ohio [Mr. STOKES] for his find that there is certainly a difference my colleague is suggesting because of leadership as well and his desire to in housing needs in certain areas of its policy implications. It needs to go work with me on this very important this country. Of course I know how the before the policy committee, and while issue. HUD people feel. This has really be- I know that the gentlewoman is going The CHAIRMAN. The time of the come a real, real bad situation for to withdraw her amendment, and I ap- gentleman from California [Mr. LEWIS] them and they cannot handle it. So preciate that, it is important for the has expired. rather than meet all of the needs like gentlewoman to know that at this (By unanimous consent, Mr. LEWIS the Jackson-Lee amendment would do, point in time, we need to work to- was allowed to proceed for 1 additional they just say, ‘‘Well, we’ll step back gether with the policy and authorizing minute.) from all of this replacement of public committee people as well. Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- housing, it’s been an eyesore, we’ve Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, will the man, the gentlewoman and I discussed been sued, everything has been done to gentleman yield? this earlier, and she has been very, us.’’ Mr. LEWIS of California. I yield to very sensitive about the time problem the gentleman from Ohio. we have this evening. Absolutely I b 2215 Mr. STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I thank commit that we will continue this dia- So this is an easy way out. I think the gentleman for yielding to me. logue. It is very important that the the amendment of the gentlewoman Mr. Chairman, let me just say I, too, gentlewoman and I and the gentleman from Texas [Ms. JACKSON-LEE] sort of am concerned about the concerns ex- from Ohio [Mr. STOKES], and the au- touches the heart of this matter; that pressed here by the gentlewoman from thorizers work together, for this ought is, it is all right to stick within the Texas. I know how concerned she is to have a different priority in terms of housing policy, but please leave some about her community and how she is funding that eventually works its way room for these people who do not fit concerned about trying to meet a spe- through appropriations bills and it has that particular mold. cific problem relative to housing in her in the past. I very much appreciate the Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentle- community. The gentlewoman dis- gentlewoman’s bringing this to our at- woman for introducing this amend- cussed this matter with me several tention. ment. times as she has discussed it with the Ms. JACKSON–LEE of Texas. Mr. Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- gentleman from California [Mr. LEWIS] Chairman, I thank the gentleman very man, I move to strike the requisite and it is a matter in which I am sym- much, and I also thank the gentleman number of words. pathetic towards her concerns. for his offer to visit my community to Mr. Chairman, I rise very reluctantly I have assured her that the gen- see the circumstances that I am speak- to suggest to the gentlewoman that tleman from California and I, working ing of. while I oppose this amendment, I do so together, perhaps in conference, can Mr. Chairman, in light of our discus- with great sensitivity to not only the try and remedy the problem that she is sion, I ask unanimous consent to with- problem that she is concerned about attempting to address here. I would draw the amendment. H6940 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection program to polluters, and what we Mr. OXLEY. Mr. Chairman, I thank to the request of the gentlewoman have done is we have just taken the the gentleman for yielding me time. from Texas? part of the amendment that the Mem- Mr. Chairman, let me be very brief. There was no objection. bers were deprived of being given the This Markey amendment basically sets Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- opportunity to vote upon earlier and the whole process on its head. Why man, I move to strike the last word. taken that part of the bill and brought would anybody want to enter into a Mr. Chairman, I know of no other it out here to the floor so that we can consent decree if they could not get re- amendments to the bill. make sure that in instances where imbursed for their cost? That does not Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, will companies that had accepted before really make a whole lot of sense in this the gentleman yield? courts the legal responsibility to clean process, and I would say to my friend Mr. LEWIS of California. I yield to up hazardous waste sites within com- from Massachusetts, if you really want the gentleman from Massachusetts. munities, that they not be given re- to slow down this process even more Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I have bates by the Federal taxpayer for the than it already is, I would suggest that one additional amendment which I will purposes of cleaning up those sites. the Members vote for the Markey be more than willing to accept the It is a very simple concept: The pol- amendment. time limitation of 5 minutes on either luter pays. The polluter who has gone This is very clear in its attempt to side, and that would complete the busi- before a court, who has been adju- bring small businesses under this in- ness. I would very much appreciate the dicated or accepted voluntarily the re- credible yoke of the Superfund liability gentleman’s consideration. sponsibility of cleaning up the site program. Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- should not be given taxpayers’ dollars Let me read from the inspector gen- man, I would say to the gentleman to do so. It is a simple concept. eral of the EPA in his semiannual re- from Massachusetts [Mr. MARKEY], Mr. Chairman, I yield such time as he port to the Congress, findings on the even though I have been told by others may consume to the gentleman from Superfund program. He says, ‘‘In gen- that we were going to absolutely have New Jersey [Mr. PALLONE] so that he eral, lengthy remedial investigation to rise on this bill that we spent 2 days may also speak to the merits of this feasibility study and enforcement ne- on if we did not finish by 10:30 p.m., I issue. gotiations delayed actual cleanup of am nonetheless highly inclined to ac- Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Chairman, I sites.’’ Actually delayed the cleanup of cede to the gentleman’s request if we thank the gentleman for yielding. sites. can keep this to 10 minutes, 5 minutes Mr. Chairman, I think this is a sim- So I suggest to Members that the on each side. ple up or down vote. The issue is Markey amendment is the wrong way to go, and let me also point out that AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. MARKEY whether or not Members want the pol- this is going to be an NFIB key vote. Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I offer luter to pay or to pay the polluter. The National Federation of Independ- an amendment. What the gentleman from Massachu- ent Businesses that represents over The Clerk read as follows: setts [Mr. MARKEY], is saying is that in this case, particularly where there has 600,000 small businesses in all of our Amendment offered by Mr. MARKEY: Page districts is opposed to the Markey 95, after line 21, insert: been a consent order already entered SEC. 422. None of the funds made available into and the party who is the polluter amendment, will make this a key vote. to the Environmental Protection Agency has agreed that they are liable, there is I want to make that very clear to the under the heading ‘‘HAZARDOUS SUB- no reason why they should be given a Members. STANCE SUPERFUND’’ may be used to pro- rebate from the Government and paid Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, will vide any reimbursement (except pursuant to to pollute. the gentleman yield? section 122(b) of the Comprehensive Environ- It is a simple up or down vote and I Mr. LEWIS of California. I yield to mental Response, Compensation, and Liabil- would certainly urge a ‘‘yes’’ vote. the gentleman from New York. ity Act of 1980) of response costs incurred by Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I any person when it is made known to the of- Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume. would add we have already debated this ficial having the authority to obligate such issue and we passed by a voice vote my funds that such person has agreed to pay For all of those who are listening, this such costs under a judicially approved con- is going to be a very simple up-or-down substitute amendment. Keep in mind, sent decree entered into before the enact- vote. This just flat out will prohibit the Markey amendment is ment of this Act. the ability for any polluter to receive antienvironment because it would slow Mr. MARKEY (during the reading). Federal funds if they have accepted the and in some instances actually halt Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- legal responsibility to cleanup the site. cleanup. We do not want to do that. It is antismall business, and we cer- sent that the amendment be considered Otherwise, we are going to take the tainly do not want to be antismall as read, and printed in the RECORD. monies which we should be using to business. Even the administration The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection clean up orphan sites, to help out mu- agrees that we should provide exemp- to the request of the gentleman from nicipalities and we will be expending tion for small business. Massachusetts? monies upon the work which the pol- There was no objection. luters themselves should be doing. b 2230 Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I ask Mr. Chairman, I again urge all Mem- And it would be antilocal govern- unanimous consent that debate on this bers very strongly who want to take 1 ment. The level of government that is amendment be limited to 10 minutes of the 10 most important environ- most financially strapped. equally divided between the majority mental votes that will be cast in this Why would anyone in their right and minority. Congress to vote ‘‘aye’’ on the Markey mind voluntarily enter into a consent The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection amendment and to make sure that the decree to clean up while we are delib- to the request of the gentleman from Superfund Program is not turned on its erating endlessly on Superfund reform? Massachusetts? head and a very large percentage of the They would hold out. We would have no There was no objection. money just being handed over to pol- cleanup. It does not make sense from The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman luters that should be used for the sites an environmental standpoint, it does from Massachusetts [Mr. MARKEY] will that need the help in communities with not make sense from a business stand- be recognized for 5 minutes and a Mem- the neighborhood nightmares that oth- point, it does not make sense from ber opposed will be recognized for 5 erwise would not be cleaned up at all. local government standpoint. I urge a minutes. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the bal- ‘‘no’’ vote. The Chair recognizes the gentleman ance of my time. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on from Massachusetts [Mr. MARKEY]. Mr. LEWIS of California. Mr. Chair- the amendment offered by the gen- Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I yield man, I rise in opposition to the amend- tleman from Massachusetts [Mr. MAR- myself such time as I may consume. ment, and I yield such time as he may KEY]. Mr. Chairman, what we have before consume to my colleague the gen- The question was taken; and the us right now is the original Markey tleman from Ohio [Mr. OXLEY] from the Chairman announced that the noes ap- amendment on the Superfund rebate committee of original jurisdiction. peared to have it. June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6941 RECORDED VOTE Franks (CT) LaTourette Ros-Lehtinen poned and on which the noes prevailed Frelinghuysen Laughlin Rose Mr. MARKEY. Mr. Chairman, I de- Frisa Lazio Roth by voice vote. mand a recorded vote. Frost Leach Royce The Clerk will redesignate the A recorded vote was ordered. Funderburk Lewis (CA) Salmon amendment. Gallegly Lewis (KY) Sanford The Clerk redesignated the amend- The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will re- Ganske Lightfoot Saxton duce to a minimum of 5 minutes the Gekas Linder Scarborough ment. period of time within which a vote by Geren Livingston Schaefer RECORDED VOTE Gilchrest Longley Schiff electronic device, if ordered, will be Gillmor Lucas Scott The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has taken on the additional amendment in Gilman Manzullo Seastrand been demanded. this series. Goodlatte Martinez Sensenbrenner A recorded vote was ordered. The vote was taken by electronic de- Gordon Mascara Shadegg The CHAIRMAN. This is a 5-minute Goss McCollum Shaw vice, and there were—ayes 142, noes 274, Graham McCrery Shays vote. not voting 17, as follows: Greene (UT) McHugh Shuster The vote was taken by electronic de- Greenwood McInnis Sisisky [Roll No. 279] vice, and there were—ayes 244, noes 171, Gunderson McIntosh Skeen not voting 18, as follows: AYES—142 Gutknecht McKeon Skelton Hall (TX) Metcalf Smith (MI) [Roll No. 280] Abercrombie Gonzalez Nadler Hamilton Meyers Smith (TX) Ackerman Green (TX) Neal AYES—244 Hancock Mica Smith (WA) Andrews Gutierrez Oberstar Hansen Miller (FL) Solomon Abercrombie Ganske Miller (CA) Baldacci Hastings (FL) Olver Harman Molinari Souder Ackerman Gejdenson Miller (FL) Barrett (WI) Hilliard Owens Hastert Mollohan Spence Allard Gilman Minge Beilenson Hinchey Pallone Hastings (WA) Montgomery Spratt Andrews Goodlatte Mink Berman Hoyer Pastor Hayworth Moorhead Stearns Bachus Goodling Molinari Blumenauer Jackson (IL) Payne (NJ) Hefley Morella Stenholm Baesler Gordon Moran Bonior Jackson-Lee Pelosi Hefner Murtha Stockman Baker (CA) Goss Morella Borski (TX) Poshard Heineman Myers Stump Barcia Graham Myrick Boucher Jefferson Rahall Herger Myrick Talent Barr Greene (UT) Nadler Brown (CA) Johnston Rangel Hilleary Nethercutt Tanner Barrett (WI) Greenwood Nethercutt Brown (FL) Kanjorski Reed Hobson Neumann Tate Barton Gunderson Neumann Brown (OH) Kaptur Richardson Hoekstra Ney Tauzin Bass Gutierrez Ney Bryant (TX) Kennedy (MA) Rivers Hoke Norwood Taylor (MS) Blumenauer Gutknecht Norwood Cardin Kennedy (RI) Roukema Holden Nussle Taylor (NC) Blute Hamilton Oberstar Clay Kildee Rush Horn Obey Thomas Bonior Harman Obey Clayton Kleczka Sabo Hostettler Ortiz Thornberry Bono Hastert Owens Clyburn Klink Sanders Houghton Orton Thurman Brown (OH) Hastings (FL) Oxley Collins (IL) LaFalce Sawyer Hunter Oxley Tiahrt Brownback Hastings (WA) Pallone Collins (MI) Lantos Schroeder Hutchinson Packard Torkildsen Bryant (TN) Hayworth Parker Conyers Levin Schumer Hyde Parker Traficant Bunn Hefley Pastor Costello Lewis (GA) Serrano Inglis Paxon Upton Bunning Herger Paxon Coyne Lipinski Skaggs Istook Payne (VA) Vucanovich Burr Hilleary Pelosi Cummings LoBiondo Slaughter Jacobs Peterson (MN) Walker Burton Hinchey Pombo DeFazio Lofgren Smith (NJ) Johnson (CT) Petri Walsh Buyer Hobson Pomeroy DeLauro Lowey Stark Johnson (SD) Pickett Wamp Camp Hoekstra Porter Dellums Luther Stokes Johnson, E. B. Pombo Watts (OK) Canady Hoke Portman Deutsch Maloney Studds Johnson, Sam Pomeroy Weldon (FL) Cardin Holden Poshard Dicks Manton Stupak Jones Porter Weldon (PA) Castle Hutchinson Pryce Dingell Markey Tejeda Kasich Portman Weller Chabot Inglis Quinn Dixon Martini Thompson Kelly Pryce White Chambliss Istook Rahall Doggett Matsui Thornton Kennelly Quillen Whitfield Chenoweth Jackson (IL) Ramstad Durbin McCarthy Torres Kim Quinn Wicker Chrysler Jacobs Rangel Engel McDermott Torricelli King Radanovich Williams Clayton Johnson (CT) Reed Eshoo McHale Towns Kingston Ramstad Wilson Coble Johnson (SD) Riggs Evans McKinney Velazquez Klug Regula Wolf Collins (GA) Jones Rivers Farr McNulty Vento Knollenberg Riggs Young (AK) Condit Kelly Roemer Fattah Meehan Visclosky Kolbe Roberts Young (FL) Cooley Kennelly Rogers Fazio Meek Volkmer LaHood Roemer Zeliff Costello Kildee Rohrabacher Fields (LA) Menendez Ward Largent Rogers Coyne Kingston Ros-Lehtinen Filner Millender- Waters Latham Rohrabacher Crapo Kleczka Rose Foglietta McDonald Watt (NC) Cremeans Klug Roth Ford Miller (CA) Waxman NOT VOTING—17 Cubin LaFalce Roukema Frank (MA) Minge Wise Cummings Lantos Royce Franks (NJ) Mink Woolsey Becerra Flake Lincoln Bevill Gephardt McDade Cunningham Largent Salmon Furse Moakley Wynn Danner Latham Sanders Gejdenson Moran Zimmer Browder Gibbons Peterson (FL) Christensen Goodling Roybal-Allard Davis LaTourette Sanford NOES—274 Coleman Hall (OH) Yates Deal Lazio Saxton Fields (TX) Hayes DeFazio Leach Scarborough Allard Bunn Cubin DeLauro Levin Schroeder Archer Bunning Cunningham b 2249 Dellums Lewis (GA) Schumer Armey Burr Danner Deutsch Lewis (KY) Seastrand Bachus Burton Davis The Clerk announced the following Diaz-Balart Lightfoot Serrano Baesler Buyer de la Garza pair: Dickey Lipinski Shadegg Baker (CA) Callahan Deal On this vote: Doggett LoBiondo Shaw Baker (LA) Calvert DeLay Dooley Longley Shays Ballenger Camp Diaz-Balart Mr. Gephardt for, with Mr. Goodling Doolittle Lowey Shuster Barcia Campbell Dickey against. Doyle Lucas Skelton Barr Canady Dooley Duncan Luther Slaughter Barrett (NE) Castle Doolittle Mr. JOHNSON of South Dakota and Dunn Maloney Smith (NJ) Bartlett Chabot Dornan Mr. FRANKS of Connecticut changed Durbin Manton Solomon Barton Chambliss Doyle their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Ehrlich Manzullo Souder Bass Chapman Dreier Ms. MILLENDER-McDONALD and Engel Markey Spence Bateman Chenoweth Duncan English Martini Spratt Bentsen Chrysler Dunn Mr. TEJEDA changed their vote from Ensign Mascara Stark Bereuter Clement Edwards ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Evans Matsui Stearns Bilbray Clinger Ehlers So the amendment was rejected. Ewing McCarthy Stupak Bilirakis Coble Ehrlich Fawell McCollum Talent Bishop Coburn English The result of the vote was announced Flanagan McHale Tate Bliley Collins (GA) Ensign as above recorded. Forbes McHugh Tauzin Blute Combest Everett AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. ROEMER Fowler McInnis Taylor (MS) Boehlert Condit Ewing Fox McIntosh Thurman Boehner Cooley Fawell The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Franks (NJ) McNulty Tiahrt Bonilla Cox Flanagan ness is the demand for a recorded vote Frelinghuysen Meehan Torkildsen Bono Cramer Foley on the amendment offered by the gen- Frisa Menendez Torricelli Brewster Crane Forbes Funderburk Meyers Towns Brownback Crapo Fowler tleman from Indiana [Mr. ROEMER] on Furse Mica Traficant Bryant (TN) Cremeans Fox which further proceedings were post- H6942 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 Upton Weldon (PA) Wynn Mr. HINCKEY. Mr. Chairman, I want to take them to these expectations when we contin- Velazquez Weller Young (AK) Vento Whitfield Zeliff a moment today to voice my support for NITA ually attack their attempts to reach this goal by Visclosky Wicker Zimmer LOWEY's amendment on the watershed protec- cutting a little bit here, and a little bit there. By Wamp Wilson tion program. The Watershed Protection Pro- doing this, we will only increase the potential Watts (OK) Woolsey gram is one of the best examples we have of for problems and the resulting condemnation NOES—171 what we should all want government to do. It of the agency by this body. Archer Ford Myers is a cooperative program, not a coercive one. While cutting a couple of million here or Armey Frank (MA) Neal It is a cost-effective program, not a grandiose there doesn't seem harmful to us, as we sit Baker (LA) Franks (CT) Nussle here far removed from the people and pro- Baldacci Frost Olver one. It is a consensus program, not an adver- Ballenger Gallegly Ortiz sarial one. Everyone benefits. grams we effect, it can wreck havoc with an Barrett (NE) Gekas Orton Everyone agrees that New York City needs extensively planned and financially slim pro- Bartlett Geren Packard a clean water supply that it can depend on. gram. Bateman Gilchrest Payne (NJ) Beilenson Gillmor Payne (VA) Upstaters like myself know that the relations I do not know what the Member from Indi- Bentsen Gonzalez Peterson (MN) between the city and the areas that provide its ana wanted to accomplish wit his amendment, Bereuter Green (TX) Petri water haven's always been good. My district but I believe it to be an ill-considered and un- Berman Hall (TX) Pickett includes the places that were condemned and wise action. This Nation is on the verge of cre- Bilbray Hancock Quillen Bilirakis Hansen Radanovich flooded over 80 years ago to provide water for ating a permanent human preserve in space Bishop Hefner Regula New York City, and there is still quite a bit of and it would do no good to handicap these ef- Bliley Heineman Richardson resentment about itÐas you would expect. forts, just when every last penny is needed to Boehlert Hilliard Roberts Boehner Horn Rush This plan represents what we in New York assure success. I urge a vote against this Bonilla Hostettler Sabo have learned about working together, and we amendment. Borski Houghton Sawyer think it can serve as a model for the rest of Mr. FRANKS of Connecticut. Mr. Chairman, Boucher Hoyer Schaefer the country, a model that could be helpful in I rise in support of H.R. 3666, the Veterans' Brown (CA) Hunter Schiff Brown (FL) Hyde Scott resolving some of the most contentious issues Affairs, Housing and Urban Development, and Bryant (TX) Jackson-Lee Sensenbrenner of our day. independent agencies appropriations bill. Let Callahan (TX) Sisisky What does everyone get? New York City me first commend the work of Chairman Calvert Jefferson Skaggs JERRY LEWIS, Congressman LOUIS STOKES, Campbell Johnson, E. B. Skeen gets clean waterÐand saves the cost of an $8 Chapman Johnson, Sam Smith (MI) billion filtration plant. The watershed areas get and my colleagues on the Veterans' Affairs/ Clay Johnston Smith (TX) help in developing their economies, and help Housing and Urban Development Appropria- Clement Kanjorski Smith (WA) in improving the quality of their own drinking tions Subcommittee. They have certainly craft- Clinger Kaptur Stenholm Clyburn Kennedy (MA) Stockman water. Farmers are learning new and more ef- ed a reasonable and sturdy bill under difficult Coburn Kennedy (RI) Stokes ficient management techniques. All parties circumstances and the product which they Collins (IL) Kim Studds benefit from a cleaner environment. bring to the floor deserves the blessing of the Collins (MI) King Stump Although the plan can save money over House. I am especially happy that Messrs. Combest Klink Tanner Conyers Knollenberg Taylor (NC) time, it isn't free. That is why we like a com- LEWIS and STOKES have increased from last Cox Kolbe Tejeda mitment of Federal for demonstration projects year's levels the funding for many of my top Cramer LaHood Thomas and monitoring. We have an agreement that priorities such as the programs for our veter- Crane Laughlin Thompson de la Garza Lewis (CA) Thornberry everyone will work togetherÐbut we still have ans, housing, and environmental protection. DeLay Linder Thornton to see how well the plan works in practice. Also, I am pleased that there is an adequate Dicks Livingston Torres Without modest support now, the plan could level of funding for NASA's human space flight Dingell Lofgren Volkmer fall apart, and it could mean higher costs for program in which our space station is being Dixon Martinez Vucanovich Dornan McCrery Walker everyoneÐincluding the Federal Govern- developed. Mr. Speaker, I am a firm believer Dreier McDermott Walsh mentÐat a later date. that the people down here on planet Earth will Edwards McKeon Ward The Federal Government protects or owns reap the benefits of the many scientific break- Ehlers McKinney Waters Eshoo Meek Watt (NC) key watersheds for many cities around the throughs that the space station is sure to pro- Everett Metcalf Waxman country. Our constituents pay for your protec- vide. Farr Millender- Weldon (FL) tion. We're not asking the Federal Govern- Still, Mr. Chairman, this does not mean Fattah McDonald White ment to do that for usÐjust to provide some there is no room for improvement. While I re- Fazio Moakley Williams Fields (LA) Mollohan Wise modest, matched assistance. And we think alize that nothing is perfect, we should never- Filner Montgomery Wolf this plan can offer the entire country some- theless strive to produce the best appropria- Foglietta Moorhead Young (FL) thing valuable in return. tions bill possible for the American people. Ac- Foley Murtha Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chair- cordingly, I do intend to support those amend- NOT VOTING—18 man, although I respect the gentleman from ments which I feel will enhance the bill into a Becerra Fields (TX) Kasich Indiana as a colleague and fellow Science more embraceable legislative product. Bevill Flake Lincoln Committee member, I realize and accept the First, I intend to support the amendment of- Brewster Gephardt McDade fered by my colleague from New York, Con- Browder Gibbons Peterson (FL) fact that he does not believe the space station Christensen Hall (OH) Roybal-Allard alpha to be a worthy endeavor. In pursuing gressman RICK LAZIO. Mr. Chairman, as duly Coleman Hayes Yates this conviction, the Congressman has offered elected members of the House of Representa- b 2300 on many occasions, amendments to cancel tive, we must never forget the importance of the space station program. I respect the gen- ensuring secure housing for the more vulner- Messrs. HILLIARD, TEJEDA, and tleman for adhering to his principles, and offer- able of our society such as our elderly and our WELDON of Florida changed their vote ing his amendments, but this particular one, disabled. The Lazio amendment addresses from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ which would cut $75 million from the program these concerns by adding $100 million for el- Messrs. ROYCE, DAVIS, BONO, DEL- is worse than cancellation. derly housing assistanceÐthus increasing it to LUMS, SCARBOROUGH, and BACHUS, The $75 million is but a fraction of the total $695 millionÐand adding $40 million for dis- Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut, and moneys appropriated for the space station this abled housing assistanceÐincreasing that Messrs. WICKER, ENGEL, MILLER of year, however I know that every penny has funding to $214 million. Mr. Speaker, the mon- California, TIAHRT, and MCINNIS been planned and accounted for. the first ele- eys provided by the Lazio amendment will changed their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ So the amendment was agreed to. ment launch is quickly approaching and every help us to successfully continue the mission of The result of the vote was announced day and every dollars becomes more and providing needed housing to our Nation's sen- as above recorded. more important as November 1997 ap- iors and handicapped. The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will read proaches. I have been told that a cut of this I also will be supporting the amendment of- the final lines of the bill. magnitude would cause significant disruptions fered by my Connecticut colleague, CHRIS The Clerk read as follows: to this complex and pioneering effort. SHAYS. This amendment will increase the This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Depart- NASA has promised, and we expect the funds for the Housing Opportunities for Per- ments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and program to come in one time and on budget sons with AIDS program [HOPWA] by $15 mil- Urban Development, and Independent Agen- which is, I believe, a reasonable request. lion, increasing that funding for this program to cy Appropriations Act, 1997’’. However, I do not believe that is fair to hold $186 million. Mr. Speaker, since 1995, the June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6943 number of reported AIDS cases has risen by a program that has succeeded in staying on of spreading infection among patients and one-third and the number of States and metro- schedule and within budget. In fact, over workers. politan areas qualifying for HOPWA grants has 100,000 pounds of hardware have been pro- I could go on and on about the past and increased by 23 percent. However, for the last duced so far, and we are only 17 months current problems arising from the bad condi- 3 years, funding for HOPWA has remained at away from the first launch to begin construc- tion of the medical center, but what we must a flat level. Mr. Speaker, the Shays amend- tion. decide today is how we intend to address the ment provides the modest, but much-needed It's time once and for all to show our sup- future of veterans' medical care in the region. increase in HOPWA funding. Passage of this port for the program and let NASA and our Should we permit the continued, rapid deterio- amendment will help the HOPWA program international partners do their jobs. I urge you ration of the medical center and, in effect, give provide increased assistance to the 34 States to support the space station and to strongly up hope on providing quality medical services which now receive HOPWA funds, of which oppose any efforts to terminate or reduce to these veterans or fulfilling our obligation to Connecticut is one, and ensure that more peo- funding for this important program. the taxpayers to provide such services in an ple with HIV or AIDS have security when it Further, I want to point out that that there effective, cost-efficient manner? I believe we comes to housing. are several amendments to the bill tonight that must fulfill our obligations to the brave men Mr. Chairman, I also rise in strong support would result in ``across-the-board'' cuts in the and women who risked their lives and health the Stump-Montgomery-Solomon amendment VA/HUD funding measure. While some of so that we could remain free. Fortunately, the to increase the Veterans Administration's med- these cuts may fund worthwhile programs, President and the members of the appropria- ical care amount by $40 million from its cur- these cuts also severely impact critical pro- tions committee made the right choice in sup- rent level of $17 billion and to increase the grams like the space shuttle and space sta- port of full funding for the project. This long Veterans Administration's benefit administra- tion. I strongly urge my colleagues to suppose overdue project will enable the Wilkes-Barre tion general operating expenses by $17 million any such cuts so we can avoid weakening our VA Medical Center to provide the quality medi- from its current level of $824 million. Mr. Nation's human space flight effort. cal services veterans deserve and taxpayers Speaker, this amendment, which is supported NASA has already done a significant expect. I would strongly urge the full House, by our Nation's leading veterans service orga- amount of voluntary downsizing, and it can as well as the other body, to concur. nizations, will help us maintain our duty to pro- truly serve as a model for other parts of the Without a doubt, this funding will help trans- vide adequate medical care for our vets while Federal Government as we reduce the size form the medical center into a first-class medi- allowing the Veteran's Administration to proc- and scope of government. However, NASA cal care facility. Under the plan, two new bed ess more veterans claims. can take no further cuts in this year's budget. towers will create much-needed space to cor- Mr. Chairman, I once again voice my sup- It is imperative that NASA receive the funding rect patient privacy problems, as well as seri- port for this piece of legislation and encourage level proposed by the Appropriations Commit- ous ventilation, heating, and air conditioning my colleagues to do likewise. tee. deficiencies. An ambulatory care addition will Mr. WELDON of Florida. Mr. Chairman, I Our children and grandchildren will thank enable the expansion of numerous medical want to encourage my colleagues to support you for supporting NASA and supporting their units, and help prepare the medical center for this important appropriations bill this evening. future. the greater focus of the VA on outpatient med- Not only does this bill fund important housing Mr. KANJORSKI. Mr. Chairman, today is an ical care overall. and veterans programs, it funds the critical important day for veterans living in north- Some Members of this Congress believe scientific research and development efforts of eastern Pennsylvania. In this appropriations that we should no longer make substantial in- our Nation. bill, Congress will finally commit the resources vestments in VA medical facilities. I disagree. Among those efforts funded are those of the needed to modernize the Wilkes-Barre, PA VA We made a commitment long ago to care for National Aeronautics and Space Administra- Medical Center. Included is a $42.7 million needy veterans and meet their special medical tion [NASA], the world's premier space agen- plan to renovate and substantially upgrade the needs through a separate health system. I be- cy. My district is home to one of NASA's key facility. lieve we must continue to do so in the future, centers, the Kennedy Space Center [KSC], the I greatly appreciate the strong leadership of as well. To meet this commitment, VA facilities launch site for all U.S. human space flights. both VA Secretary Jesse Brown in securing must be appropriately maintained. While new KSC and other NASA centers are unique na- funds for the project in President Clinton's hospitals have been built and old facilities ren- tional assets, but their future is threatened by budget request and VA-HUD Subcommittee ovated over the years, the Wilkes-Barre VA continued efforts to reduce and eliminate fund- Chairman JERRY LEWIS for including the re- Medical Center has been virtually forgotten. ing for critical human space flight programs, quest in this bill. I also must thank ranking As the third largest VA facility in the fifth larg- most notably the space station program. member LOUIS STOKES for his tireless efforts est State in the Nation, and after nearly five Despite having expressed strong, bipartisan on behalf of veterans and his gracious help on decades of service, this medical center is long support for the International Space Station this and other projects important to the citi- overdue for major repairs and modernization. only a few weeks ago, the House is once zens of my region. Of course, Congressman Mr. Chairman, the 250,000 veterans spread again being asked to vote on funding for the JOE MCDADE deserves much praise for his across 19 counties in northeastern and central Space Station. hard work in support of this project, as does Pennsylvania, as well as the medical center's These perpetually unsuccessful efforts to Congressman TIM HOLDEN and Congressman dedicated employees, need and deserve this cripple the space station only create uncer- PAUL MCHALE. important project. I therefore urge swift ap- tainty for NASA and our international partners Mr. Chairman, in my May testimony before proval of this appropriation by the House. and unnecessarily tie up the House. the subcommittee in support of this project, Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I rise to thank You will hear many of the same arguments and many times since coming to Congress the chairman, ranking member, and other from opponents that you heard last month. But more than 11 years ago, I have tried to ex- members of the Subcommittee on VA±HUD± nothing has changed since then. The program plain to the membership of this body how des- Independent Agencies for their recognition of is still on schedule and within budget. The sci- perate the situation is at this 50-year old medi- the continuing importance of the Rouge River entific value of the space station has not di- cal center. Space shortages are severe, National Wet Weather Demonstration Project. minished since last month. The Space Station equipment and facilities are outdated, and em- In particular, my colleague from Michigan, Mr. still represents the forward-looking, future vi- ployee morale is sinking rapidly. Simple put, KNOLLENBERG, deserves credit for proposing sion of our country. we must upgrade this facility immediately. and steering an important provision of this leg- Don't be fooled by these so-called savings. The medical center is wholly insufficient to islation which will provide $20 million in fiscal In fact, any reduction in funding now would meet the current and future needs of my re- year 1997 for the Rouge Project. cause cost growth equivalent to double the so- gion's veteran population. Over 99 percent of This project was begun in 1990 following called ``savings'' due to schedule delays in the all patient rooms are not equipped with either the completion of the Rouge River Remedial production of space station components. private or semiprivate bathrooms, including Action Plan [RAP] in 1989 which found that We should keep our commitment to NASA rooms for female veterans. Ambulatory care the most densely populated and urbanized and the American people by fully funding the has only 44 percent of needed space. Medical river in Michigan was contributing significantly space station. and surgical intensive care units have only 54 to the quality of the fresh surface water of the You should also recognize that any attempts percent of needed space, and patient privacy Great LakesÐwhich contains 20 percent of to reduce or transfer funding for the space sta- is nonexistent in the hospital's 16-bed wards. the world's fresh surface water. A report of the tion are only thinly-veiled efforts to fatally crip- Serious environmental deficiencies, such as General Accounting Office [GAO] 2 years prior ple the program. These cuts would devastate very poor ventilation, have increased the risk to completion of the RAP found that the cost H6944 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 of restoring the Rouge watershed would be places because AmeriCorps has made its and after thousands of volunteers have at- massive. In fact, the most recent cost esti- mark. tested to its success, Republicans have re- mates show that the clean up will cost nearly As we work to balance the Federal budget, fused to accept Americorp as a cost-efficient, $1.4 billion by 2002. I believe we must set smart priorities. Cer- public-private, community investment that de- That is why I joined a group of my col- tainly providing opportunities which afford serves our support. leagues from the metropolitan Detroit area to young people access to job training and edu- Finally, H.R. 3666 would underfund another see if we could muster the resources to meet cation ought to be among our national goals. highly regarded programÐyouthbuild. The a tremendous challenge: comprehensive wa- I urge my colleagues to support the modest youthbuild program educates and trains our tershed-wide clean up, while developing a level of funding for the Corporation for Na- youth, renovates our housing, and improves technological, managerial, and financial model tional and Community Service included in this our community by giving young adults the op- that could be replicated nationwide as other appropriations bill. portunity to construct and rehabilitate housing communities come to grips with the costs and Mr. OWENS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposi- for homeless or low-income people while si- other problems associated with cleaning our tion to many of the provisions in the VA±HUD- multaneously developing their own academic waters and keeping them clean. As it so hap- Independent Agencies Appropriations Act for and vocational skills. Since fiscal year 1995, pens, southeast Michigan had many local and Fiscal Year 1997ÐH.R. 3666. While this bill is this program has had to sustain a 50 percent regional resources in place to implement such a major improvement over last year's VA± cut. H.R. 3666 would continue this unwise a model, but were in need of Federal partner- HUD appropriations debacle, H.R. 3666 still trend and freeze funding at the fiscal year ship. Congress accepted that challenge, and lacks adequate Federal provisions to address 1995 level. with passage of this measure tonight, the Fed- the housing emergency in this country, espe- No, this year's VA±HUD appropriations bill eral Government will have contributed almost cially within the inner cities. The passage of does not contain those ridiculous legislative 25 percent of the cost. The remainder is being various amendments that will be offered by environmental riders. However, H.R. 3666 paid by ratepayers in each watershed commu- many of my Democratic colleagues today may would apply a freeze philosophy and fund nity in seven congressional districts, in com- make this legislation more palatable. However, most programs at or near their fiscal year bination with clean water revolving loans ad- the basic right of our most vulnerable citizens 1996 appropriation level. At a time when the ministered by the State of Michigan. It is im- to sleep comfortably at night must not be com- number of households with worst-case unmet portant to note that, despite this help, our citi- promised. housing needs has reached an all-time high of zens are still being asked to pay higher water H.R. 3666 would continue a devastating 5.3 million, at a time when more than 7 million bills, and our cities are being asked to stretch trend which began in 1995Ðnot funding any children and adults are homeless, and at a resources which already are stretched to their new section 8 incremental vouchers. These time when a baby is born into poverty in this limits. vouchers could be used to house additional country every 32 seconds, additional Federal Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to report to my familiesÐmany of whom are homelessÐwho resources are necessaryÐnot a freeze. colleagues tonight that, although such a mas- are in dire need of housing assistance. Cur- Unsurprisingly, this freeze philosophy was not sive undertaking is never easy, the citizens rently, over 70 percent of the families who applied to the National Defense Authorization and community leaders of metropolitan Detroit, quality for low-income housing assistance are ActÐH.R. 3230Ðwhich authorized $12 billion on a bipartisan basis, are working together to not receiving it. These 20 million families are more than the administration requested and solve a common problem using innovate ap- simply forced to deal with substandard hous- $2.4 billion more than fiscal year 1996 funding proaches to save a precious resource. With ing conditions with serious building code viola- to defense programs. The Federal Govern- the first phase of the project due to be com- tions such as dangerous electrical wiring and ment can and must do much better in ensur- pleted soon, project administrator Wayne inadequate plumbing; exorbitant rent; and ing that its people, even those who are the County is already transferring the knowledge it even homelessness. These families, who least fortunate and least economically stable, has gained to other communities across the could qualify for housing assistance, are sim- have safe, decent and affordable housing. nation. Again, I would like to commend my ply placed on waiting lists. H.R. 3666 would Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. Mr. Chairman, I colleague from Bloomfield Hills for his leader- not enable HUD to provide for these families. would like to first thank Chairman JERRY LEWIS ship this year, so that the state that led in the This bill completely ignores the Department for his yeoman's work on this issue of child- industrialization of America can lead in the of Housing and Urban Development's [HUD] hood cancer in Toms River, NJ. As I testified clean up of its natural resources. recently released ``Worst Case Rental Housing before his appropriations subcommittee on Ms. MCCARTHY. Mr. Chairman, I rise to ex- Needs'' report. The report disclosed that the May 8, the Agency for Toxic Substances and press my support of one of our Nation's great- number of households with unmet worst-case Disease Registry [ATSDR] is currently working est success stories for our youth, the housing needs reached an all-time high of 5.3 to assist New Jersey in its search for answers AmeriCorps program, and to express my op- million in 1993. Of this number, more than 1 to a disturbing, potential cancer cluster among position to amendments offered today which million were households headed by an elderly young children. would eliminate or drastically reduce funding person, and more than 1 million were working- I rise in strong support of the amendment to for the Corporation for National and Commu- poor families, including many with children. In H.R. 3666 offered by Chairman LEWIS of Cali- nity Service. my State of New York, there were more than fornia. Childhood cancer is a tragedy that is of The mission of AmeriCorps is sensible: pro- 350,000 households with worst-case unmet national concern, and with the funding pro- vide educational opportunities for young peo- housing needs. More than 144,400 of these vided in this amendment, ATSDR will be given ple who serve their community in ways that households were families with children. Iron- the resources to examine any possible envi- make a real difference in the lives of others. ically, Congress responds to this crisis by end- ronmental link between toxic substances and In my district, AmeriCorps members have ing its 20-year record of funding annual in- childhood cancer. partnered with professionals and nonprofit creases in the number of renter households As some of you know, the Toms River area agencies to help immunize children, revitalize assisted through HUD programs. has two superfund sitesÐCiba Geigy and and clean up inner city neighborhoods, install Furthermore, H.R. 3666 would slash elderly Reich FarmÐthat many residents fear could smoke alarms in the homes of the elderly, and and disabled housing by 29 percentÐa $319 be responsible for abnormally high cancer weatherize homes in low income areas. On million cut. H.R. 3666 would appropriate only rates in the area. Earth Day this year, I assisted AmeriCorps $769 million in a new account to fund the sec- In August of 1995, the New Jersey Depart- members with planting a community garden in tion 202 Elderly Housing and section 811 Dis- ment of Health, responding to anecdotal evi- a vacant lot once strewn with debris. The lot abled Housing programs. There is no justifica- dence of increased incidence of cancers now is a source of neighborhood pride. tion for decreasing housing opportunities for among young children, analyzed data in the AmeriCorps members continually champion senior citizens and persons with disabilities. New Jersey State Cancer Registry and came the cause of community service by their col- We must recorder our priorities and halt the up with alarming results: a five fold increase in lective and individual efforts. In my community, rollbacks of crucial Federal protections. cancer rates for brain and central nervous sys- members have worked with community police H.R. 3666 would continue the assault on the tem cancers among children under age 5. officers to initiate neighborhoods watch pro- successful Americorp program by cutting the Something is causing these cancers, Mr. grams and shut down drug houses. The en- program's funding by $36 millionÐcompared Speaker, and with the funds provided in this ergy of these young people has inspired many to fiscal year 1996. And there are a host of amendment, the anxious parents of these kids families to get more involved to preserve and amendments that will be offered to terminate may at last begin to get some answers. And protect their neighborhood. As a result, Kan- the program. After four independent evalua- I would note to my colleagues that if ATSDR sas City is cleaner, safer and more livable in tions have validated the benefits of Americorp, does find an environmental link, it will have June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6945 implications far beyond the State of New Jer- rupt these projects or violate a contract, nor Subcommittee, JERRY LEWIS, for his support sey. throw anyone out of their apartments. The in- for the hospital. His commitment to the hos- Mr. Speaker, I have repeatedly indicated to tent is to eliminate the windfall that a few pital is a significant step in ensuring that the my colleagues that ATSDR's work on environ- project owners may be unjustly receiving at hospital at Travis becomes a reality. mental health is vitally important, especially taxpayer expense. I am also pleased that the bill includes fund- because no other agency has environmental I hope that the Housing and Community Op- ing for the Sacramento River Toxic Pollutant health as its chief mission. ATSDR provides portunity Subcommittee of the Banking and Fi- Control Program [SRTPCP] within the EPA's critical work in filling the serious data gaps in nancial Services Committee moves quickly Environmental Programs and Management scientific understanding about the human this summer to bring legislation to the floor Account. This is a cooperative program con- health effects of hazardous substances re- that addresses this issue. ducted by the Sacramento Regional County leased from Superfund sites. It also assists Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chair- Sanitation District and the Central Valley Re- States through cooperative agreements, in man, I rise today to raise my strong opposition gional Water Quality Control Board. conducting Public Health Consultations. to Mr. HOSTETTLER'S amendment to eliminate The Sacramento River is the largest and With this amendment, ATSDR will have the AmeriCorps. most important river in California. It supplies resources needed to include New Jersey in a This amendment to H.R. 3666 will eliminate water for agricultural, municipal and industrial seven State national study of brain cancer in- the entire program and thus deny the oppor- uses as well as providing important rec- cidence near national priorities list [NPL] sites. tunity for many deserving young people to at- reational benefits. Unfortunately, this key envi- It provides Federal resources through com- tend college. The program is simple, but it has ronmental and economic asset is threatened parative geographic data analysis, providing had a significant impact on the lives of people by pollutant loadings that jeopardize these medical and scientific expertise and education, living in my Houston, TX, district. beneficial uses. The river exceeds State and as well as environmental and biomedical mon- In the city of Houston, David Lopez, an EPA-recommended water quality criteria de- itoring to examine potential exposure path- AmeriCorps volunteer, has worked to provide veloped in the early 1990's for a number of ways. the inner city kids of working parents with su- toxic pollutants, particularly metals such as Cancer is always tragic, Mr. Speaker, but it pervised activity and play. This keeps them copper, mercury and lead. is especially heartbreaking when it strikes from being left to their own devices or worse The SRTPCP, which is in its third year, was down innocent children. And that is why it is to the design of street predators who would created to bring the Sacramento River into important to keep a careful count of each of lead these young lives in the wrong direction. compliance with water quality standards. The the little victims of cancer, so that researchers For a year of volunteer service with Com- program is based on watershed management can have complete and accurate information munities In Schools, David has earned a concepts including the development of site- to work with. As part of its public health re- $4,725 scholarship toward college. specific water quality standards and tech- sponse plan, which this amendment will fund, AmeriCorps is the one and only chance for nically feasible, cost-effective programs to ATSDR will conduct interviews with area fami- many of its participants to obtain a college achieve water quality standards throughout the lies to make sure people do not fall through education. It has been under attack from the river and its tributaries. the cracks. early days of the 104th Congress for being in- Regrettably, I do have one concern and that In conclusion, with this amendment, the Re- efficient. The truth is that among the numer- is that this proposal fails to adequately protect publican Congress is sending a clear and ous independent studies this year, including the environment. It simply goes too far and will powerful message to the American people, as the one by the conservative Chicago School hurt the ability of communities to protect their well as to the residents of Ocean County: we economists, the studies confirmed that invest- residents from toxic exposure. I support the care about environmental health. We are com- ments in national service programs are sound, Durbin amendment to restore the community's mitted to finding answers; why are so many of yielding from $1.54 to $3.90 for every $1 in- right-to-know what chemicals are being emit- our precious children coming down with can- vested. In fact, a 1995 GAO report concluded ted from local industries. cer? But most importantly, we are willing to that AmeriCorps almost tripled the amount of It is important to encourage growth and de- back up our commitment with Federal dollars. $31 million that Congress directed them to velopment and that can best be achieved if Mr. THOMAS. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to raise by raising some $91 million. companies work to earn the trust of the com- express my disappointment that language AmeriCorps has played a vital role in com- munity and the two work closely together. dealing with the Section 8 Housing Program in munities all over America. The 23,641 stu- Along those lines, I also urge my House and sections 204 and 205 of H.R. 3666, the Veter- dents taught, and the 49,632 youth helped Senate counterparts to do the same and work ans Affairs, Housing and Urban Development through violence prevention programs is a tes- out a reasonable solution to this issue. and Independent Agencies appropriations bill, tament to the critical role this program plays in I urge my colleagues to support the fiscal was removed from the bill. We have been the lives of people in need. year 1997 VA±HUD appropriations bill. working to reform this program since 1993 I strongly oppose any effort to end this pro- Mr. HOYER. Mr. Chairman, I rise to express when my local newspaper in Bakersfield, CA, gram. my very serious concerns about the funding described the rents subsidized by the Section Mr. FAZIO of California. Mr. Chairman, I rise levels for Superfund, section 8 housing vouch- 8 Program. According to the article, some to offer my support for the legislation before ers, and space sciences in this bill. Once building owners were receiving rents $200 and us today. H.R. 3666 provides $84.3 billion for again, the appropriations priorities of this ma- $300 above comparable market rents for simi- veterans and housing programs, the Environ- jority are shortchanging America's commu- lar size units in the area. While I understand mental Protection Agency, NASA, and the Na- nities by underfunding efforts to clean up our that there may be some additional costs asso- tional Science Foundation. While this bill falls environment, provide safe housing for our sen- ciated with managing section 8 units, I do not well short of the administration's request, over- iors and poor children, and make our neigh- believe that an additional $200 or $300 per all funding is $1.8 billion higher than last borhoods better places to live. month is justified. year's level. I am particularly concerned by the cuts to I believe he Department of Housing and I am particularly pleased to note that the Mission to Planet Earth, a critical NASA pro- Urban Development must be given the author- committee has decided to include funding for gram which has great potential for helping pre- ity to simply reduce rents to those projects the replacement hospital at Travis Air Force dict weather and climate. The ability to better which are blatantly out of line with rents paid Base in Fairfield, CA. Building a new, state-of- predict natural disasters will save both money for comparable units in the area. In taking the-art facility at Travis will provide much- and lives. Moreover, our capability to forecast such a step, I understand that other factors needed medical care for over 430,000 veter- up to a year in advance will yield tremendous beyond a simple comparison of other area ans in northern California. These veterans benefits for agricultural and natural resources rents must be taken into account. That is why need a new full service veterans hospital. productivity. I have introduced legislation to provide the I would like to recognize the steadfast sup- The subcommittee's mark includes $1.149 HUD Secretary this authority and why I am port of Operation VA, and in particular, Caro- billion for Mission to Planet Earth. Regrettably, disappointed, therefore, that the section 8 lan- lyn Rennert and George Pettygrove, who have this is a reduction of $220 million from the guage, which would have allowed HUD to been unwavering in their support for the con- President's budget request. If the allocation for bring in a third party arbitrator upon the expi- struction of this hospital. The entire Travis this appropriations measure was not so con- ration of section 8 contracts to negotiate new community, including many hard working vet- strained, I would offer an amendment to add rents based upon comparable market rents erans and citizens throughout Solano County that $220 million to the bill before us. NASA, was deleted from the VA/HUD appropriations deserve praise for their efforts. I would also through internal efforts, has already greatly re- bill. The intent of my legislation is not to bank- like to thank the chairman of the VA±HUD duced the Mission to Planet Earth budget. H6946 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 Further reductions could cause serious delays and a wide range of other helpful information. entities surveyedÐnearly 50 percent of the in the weather measurements and the Earth As the result of aggressive distribution efforts, totalÐ``have seen their funding or staff levels observing system. Cuts could also affect headquartered in Pueblo, CO, more than 1 slashed or eliminated during the past decade.'' NASA's agreements with the United Kingdom, million copies are currently in circulation. The magazine determined consumer protec- Japan, Brazil, and FranceÐall partners in the The Office of Consumer Affairs responds tion efforts have been improved in only 9 EOS system. quickly, and efficiently, to consumer com- States. At the same time, 41 States and the Goddard Space Flight Center is NASA's plaints through the toll-free National Consumer District of Columbia have curtailed consumer lead center for these efforts and has an ex- HELPLINE. I want to stress to my colleagues protection efforts or merely held the line on traordinary reputation for Earth science stud- that the HELPLINE is staffed by a portion of service in spite of increasing demand. Ala- ies. I have had the chance to visit with the sci- the Office's 13 trained, professional employ- bama, Alaska, California, Connecticut, the Dis- entists working on this program and I can tell ees and is not contracted out to another office trict of Columbia, Florida, Hawaii, Iowa, Mary- you that their work is outstanding. Our under- or to private operators. The HELPLINE can land, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New standing of the Earth as an integrated system quickly direct consumers to appropriate gov- York, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Vir- is far from complete. Mission to Planet Earth ernment agencies helping them negotiate an ginia, and Wisconsin were all rated by the and EOS will produce both practical benefits often complicated system of shared and over- magazine as ``losing ground'' in the battle to and long-term understanding of the environ- lapping jurisdiction. Staff also refer callers to protect consumers' interests. For example, the ment. consumer affairs offices in the private sector. Alabama attorney general's consumer affairs Mr. Chairman, I strongly believe that it is in Between June, 1995, when the HELPLINE staff has been cut by 70 percent since the the best interests of our country and, indeed, commenced operation, and the end of Feb- early 1980's while Maryland's has been pared of mankind, to fully fund Mission to Planet ruary, 1996, more than 80,000 peopleÐabout by 28 percent since 1990. In Massachusetts, Earth and I urge the committee to work to ac- 10,000 per monthÐhave been served. It is im- the executive office of consumer affairs was complish that objective as this bill moves portant to note the Office has assisted this vol- slated for closure and in New Jersey, Rhode through the legislative process. ume of callers while operating the HELPLINE Island, and South Carolina certain State-ad- Mr. GEJDENSON. Mr. Chairman, I rise to only 4 hours daily. I believe the number of ministered consumer advocacy organizations express my strong concern that the bill before calls would increase significantly if the Office have been terminated. As the States continue us eliminates the U.S. Office of Consumer Af- had sufficient resources to operate the to reduce consumer affairs units and curtail in- fairs. As many members of this body know, HELPLINE during normal business hours. vestigations, preserving a consumer advocate the Office of Consumer Affairs is the only en- In addition, through the HELPLINE, letters at the national level becomes even more im- tity on the Federal level which serves as an and other sources the Office performs its portant. advocate for consumers on virtually any issue. central function as an advocateÐhelping con- I recognize the Appropriations Committee I believe we should be devoting significantly sumers solve their problems. Office staff re- has provided a minimal increase to the more, rather than fewer, resources to protect- search consumers' problems and then work Consumer Information Center and transferred ing the interests of American consumers. with manufacturers and Government agencies some of the Office's functions to the Center. The Office of Consumer Affairs traces its or- to develop voluntary solutions. The Office has The Center distributes the Consumer's Re- igin to the President's Committee on a unique problem-solving role because it is source handbook, other consumer-related in- Consumer Interest established by President nonregulatory. It can contact a private com- formation and publications from various Gov- John Kennedy in 1962. President Johnson pany and work to achieve a compromise relat- ernment agencies. While the committee report transformed the committee into the Office of ing to how a particular product is sold or pro- makes vague references about transferring Consumer Service in 1968. President Richard duced or how a service is delivered. Most reg- functions, the bill is silent on this issue. How- Nixon was responsible for establishing the Of- ulatory agencies can not take similar action ever, it is very important to note that the Cen- fice of Consumer Affairs within the White without being confronted with conflict of inter- ter will not be taking over the Office's advo- cacy role. It will not operate the HELPLINE, it House and redefined its mission to include in- est charges or allegations they are being will not address consumer complaints and it formation distribution and consumer education. ``soft'' on entities under their jurisdiction. In a will not represent consumers' interests in pol- In fact, Elizabeth Dole was Deputy Director of February, 1996 letter to President Clinton, icy discussions within the Federal Govern- the Office during the Nixon years and played several major U.S. corporations and trade or- ment. The Center is, and I believe will remain, an important role in developing voluntary ganizations, including MasterCard, MCI, Ford, a warehousing and distribution entity and will agreements between manufacturers and con- and the American Gas Association, were not be transformed into a consumer advocate sumers. President Nixon was also responsible among 41 groups urging the President's con- for transferring the Office to the Department of under the provisions of this bill. tinued support for the Office. The Office of Mr. Chairman, the Office of Consumer Af- Health and Human Services and expanding its Consumer Affairs is the only Federal agency fairs is a great value for the American people. mission again to include consumer advocacy which can bring consumers and businesses In an article published in the Christian Science throughout the Federal Government. Presi- together in an nonadversarial setting and Monitor in January, 1996, two former Directors dents Ford, Carter, Reagan, and Bush all con- produce agreements which benefit all parties. of the Office stated it provides services to the tinued the Office and utilized it to ensure con- Mr. Chairman, American consumers need a 97 million households in this country for about sumers' interests were protected at the na- voice at the Federal level more than ever be- two cents per household. I challenge any tional level. fore. Rapid and complex changes in our econ- member to find another program which offers As I mentioned above, the Office acts as a omy, widespread reorganization of Federal similar service to the American people for consumer advocate. Other entities in the Fed- programs, and a blizzard of new products and less. I firmly believe the taxpayers are willing eral Government address consumer issues by services associated with the information revo- to spend less than $2 million dollars annually regulating products or services. The Office's lution are generating questions and concerns to ensure they have a consumer advocate at mission is to serve as a central point of con- from a growing number of Americans. At the the Federal level. The American people are tactÐa one-stop-shopÐwhere consumers can same time, States, which traditionally have of- not blindly demanding spending cuts. They obtain a wide range of information and assist- fered the first line of defense for consumers, want this Congress to make cuts and policy ance in addressing their problems with Gov- are reducing, and in some case eliminating, changes which make sense. I believe the vast ernment agencies as well as the private sec- consumer affairs departments and units at an majority of Americans would agree that elimi- tor. The Office distributes information through alarming rate. nating the Office of Consumer Affairs fails this a variety of sources, the most popular of A March, 1996 investigation by Money Mag- important test. which is the Consumer's Resource Handbook. azine provides startling information about just Mr. FOGLIETTA. Mr. Chairman, I rise to Every member of this body is familiar with how severe some of the reductions at the speak in favor of this bipartisan amendment these valuable publications which are arguably State level have been. As part of its investiga- which would provide the funds needed to keep the most thorough source of consumer-related tion, Money surveyed 45 State attorneys gen- the HOPWA Program at pace with the growth information issued in America. The handbook eral and 51 other State, county and city of the need and the problem. provides tips on how to get the most for one's consumer affairs offices requesting information HOPWA needs the little bit of extra money money, prevent fraud and protect personal pri- about historic and present budgets, contacts, that this amendment provides, because the vacy. In addition, it contains more than 100 number of cases investigated, and the amount number of communities served by it have ex- pages listing national consumer groups, State of money returned to consumers as a result of panded. and local consumer affairs offices, better busi- such investigations. Based on the information Why do we need a separate housing pro- ness bureaus, corporate consumer centers provided, Money concluded that 44 of the 96 gram for people with AIDS? That's what I hear June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6947 some people ask about this program. The rea- Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Chairman, I rise in op- Esther Kaleko-Kravitz is the director of son is because the needs are so unique. So position to the Hostettler amendment to elimi- Community Year, and Wendy Moen is the often, people with AIDS find themselves on nate AmeriCorps funding. corpsmember development specialist. Under the fringes of our communities: Isolated; fright- AmeriCorps has been a very valuable re- the auspices of these two able individuals, ened; stigmatized. Broken financially from the source for our great Nation. AmeriCorps is young adults provide direct services to the el- costs of drugs and doctors. Sometimes, home- achieving results; AmeriCorps is cost effective; derly, refugees, and the disabled population in less. The worst thing that someone needs in AmeriCorps has earned private-sector support; the community, from preschool to adulthood. the latter stages of AIDS is to worry about and AmeriCorps is cutting costs. This national service experience promotes where they will live and where they will die. An evaluation of AmeriCorps programs by personal and professional growth among the Worry hastens death. Aguirre InternationalÐheaded by President corpsmembers and is a win-win situation for HOPWA is the caring and decent thing, but Ford's Commission of Education found that everyone. just one-tenth of the AmeriCorps members: if that is not enough * * * consider the finan- All over America, there is a new spirit of taught 23,641 students; tutored 23,867 individ- cial aspects of the issue. Without the hospices community service. Meeting and talking with uals; mentored 14,878 youths; helped 2,551 provided by HOPWA, a person with AIDS is young people in my district, I see an idealism homeless people find shelter; planted more likely to end up in a hospital, where Medicaid and an eagerness to help others. than 210,000 trees; collected organized, and will be huge. Support this amendment be- The time has come to provide American stu- cause it's cost effective. Support this amend- distributed 974,103 pounds of food and 5,000 pounds of clothes; developed and distributed dents with a program which channels their en- ment because it's right. ergy and challenges them to discover the un- Mr. REED. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong 38,546 packets of information about drug tapped resources within themselves. opposition to the Hostettler amendment to abuse, street safety, health care, and other is- eliminate the AmeriCorps Program. sues; ran violence prevention after-school pro- We must encourage this spirit of service in AmeriCorps has provided an opportunity for grams for 49,632 youth; performed energy au- our country by opposing this amendment. more than 40,000 young people to earn their dits for more than 18 million square feet of AmeriCorps members help to form a world way through college by giving something back buildings; and leveraged 669,369 hours of where compassion and a willingness to help to their communities and our Nation. service by unstipended volunteersÐeach others will strengthen America and indeed AmeriCorps members perform many vital func- AmeriCorps member manages about 16 vol- make a difference. tions, including tutoring children, helping sen- unteers and generates 246 volunteer hours. Moreover Governors Weld, Wilson, Engler, iors, housing the homeless, feeding the hun- AmeriCorps is cost effective for our Nation. Merrill, and Almond, religious groups like the gry, preventing crime, and protecting the envi- Numerous independent studies this year, in- Catholic Network of Volunteer service, the ronment. cluding one by conservative Chicago School Episcopal Church, and Agudath Israel of This past Sunday, I attended the City Year economists sponsored by three private foun- America, volunteer sector leaders like Habitat Rhode Island Graduation, in which 55 individ- dations to test their investment in AmeriCorps, for Humanity, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, the uals were honored for their year of service in confirmed that investments in national service Red Cross, and the YMCA, support Providence and Central Falls, RI. City Year programs are sound, yielding from $1.54 to AmeriCorps strongly. I urge my colleagues to participants make a difference in the lives of $3.90 for every dollar invested. oppose the Hostettler amendment. Rhode Islanders by tutoring children and In fact, the 1995 GAO Report concluded that AmeriCorps almost tripled the amount it Mr. STUDDS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in sup- cleaning up communities. Next year, City Year was required to raise from non-corporation port of the amendment, which would provide a Rhode Island, which receives a majority of its sources in its first year: Congress directed $15 million increase for local HIV/AIDS hous- funding from the Corporation for National AmeriCorps programs to raise $31 million; ing assistance grants under the HOPWA Pro- Service, expects to provide service opportuni- they raised $91 million. Of this total, $41 mil- gram. These funds will help thousands of peo- ties to additional participants who will serve lionÐmore than the amount required of all ple to live longer and stay healthier, while throughout the State. sourcesÐcame from the private sector alone. sparing States and localities the far greater AmeriCorps is making a positive impact in Such financial support proves that leaders at costs associated with the hospital and emer- our communities and in the lives of the partici- the local level across the country feel that gency room care to which these individuals pants. One recent City Year Rhode Island par- AmeriCorps is an effective way to meet the would otherwise be forced to turn. ticipant was a high school dropout working in needs of their communities. Two years ago, I joined with Members on jobs which gave her little chance of advance- The program is below budget. In fact both sides of the aisle in an effort to prevent ment. Her involvement in City Year provided AmeriCorps grantees have already reduced the HOPWA Program from being eliminated an opportunity to assist others in need, which costs by 7 percent in real terms. The Corpora- altogether. Fortunately, the program survived in turn renewed her belief in the value of hard tion has already reduced its administrative that crisis. But the Congress took away $15 work and inspired her to return to and finish budget by 12 percent in real terms. The Cor- million as part of the 1995 rescissions pack- high school. She is now attending Brown Uni- poration has recently announced that it will age, and the program has been level funded versity where she is studying medicine, turning lower its average budgeted cost per ever sinceÐeven though the number of re- a nearly destroyed dream of becoming a doc- AmeriCorps member in its grants programs by ported AIDS cases has risen by one-third and tor into a reality. $1,000 each year in program year 1999± the number of States and metropolitan areas Today the critics of AmeriCorps will attempt 2,000. And, the GAO reported the Corporation qualifying for a piece of the pie has increased to disparage AmeriCorps with claims of finan- is spending less per AmeriCorps member than by 23 percent. cial mismanagement and wasteful spending. it had budgeted. In recent months, however, the Corporation for It is time to put that $15 million back. With- The Corporation has also announced that it out it, 34 States and cities in every region of National Service has addressed these and will no longer make AmeriCorps program other concerns by reducing costs, increasing the country will actually lose money this year grants to other Federal agencies. as they struggle to bear the enormous and private-sector support, improving financial Additionally, Representative HOSTETTLER is growing burden of this epidemic. Thousands management, and eliminating grants to other focusing on just 2 of the over 1,200 of people will be forced to choose between Federal agencies, in order to harness the full AmeriCorps sites and 450 AmeriCorps pro- paying their medical bills and paying the rent. potential of national service. Furthermore, four grams over the last 2 years. In fact, in both Many will wind up in hospitals, at a cost 10 to independent studies have concluded that these cases, the Corporation and the Gov- 20 times that of housing and services in a AmeriCorps is a cost-effective investment that ernor's commissions found the problems and HOPWA-funded residential facility. The rest yields more in benefits than the program eliminated funding to the programs to elimi- could find themselves huddled in homeless costs. nate the waste of taxpayer dollars. These are shelters and sleeping on grates. Many could As the Providence Journal-Bulletin recently the exception that prove the rules work. noted, we should be increasing funding for this Recently, I visited two sites of an literally die in the streets this winter. worthy program, not eliminating it. AmeriCorps AmeriCorps program in Montgomery County, No civilized society can allow that to hap- enjoys widespread support among partici- MD, called the Community Year. I saw first pen. I commend the gentleman for offering the pants, governors, and businessmen and hand, at Karasik Child Care Center and Holy amendment and urge its adoption. women in Rhode island, and across the Na- Cross Adult Day Care Center, that young Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I rise in sup- tion. I urge my colleagues to reject the adults are making a significant difference in port of this amendment which would increase Hostettler amendment and other anti- the lives of people in need in Montgomery by $15 million the Housing Opportunities for AmeriCorps amendments offered today. County through AmeriCorps. People with AIDS Program [HOPWA]. H6948 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 At a time when both homelessness and the The bill was ordered to be engrossed Additionally, today amendments spread of AIDS have reached crisis propor- and read a third time, and was read the took out $54 million in additional cuts tion, funding for the HOPWA Program is cru- third time. to NASA. NASA had already been cut cial to the basic existence of many Americans. MOTION TO RECOMMIT OFFERED BY MR. STOKES $1.1 billion in the bill as reported. AIDS is now the leading killer of Americans Mr. STOKES. Mr. Speaker, I offer a My motion to recommit puts the between the ages of 25 and 44. The growth motion to recommit. money, AmeriCorps money, back in, of the number of people infected with AIDS The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is the does not take it from any of the ac- has been dramatic, and it is often the case gentleman opposed to the bill? counts. This is money that is lying that people with AIDS need housing assist- Mr. STOKES. In its present form I there and is available. We put the ance. In fact, at any given time, one-third to am, Mr. Speaker. money back in. It is deficit neutral. It one-half of all Americans with AIDS are either The SPEAKER pro tempore. The is within the targets. It delays the homeless or in imminent danger of losing their Clerk will report the motion to recom- money until September 30, 1997, so homes. We have a responsibility, not only to mit. there is no immediate obligation. respond to this very devastating public health The Clerk read as follows: I would urge all of the Members on both sides of the aisle, in the true bi- crisis, but also to provide basic housing assist- Mr. STOKES moves to recommit the bill ance to those who are suffering from AIDS. H.R. 3666 to the Committee on Appropria- partisan manner in which the gen- The HOPWA Program is the only Federal tions with instructions to report the bill tleman from California [Mr. LEWIS] and housing program that specifically provides back to the House forthwith with amend- I have worked on this bill, to support cities and States hardest hit by the AIDS epi- ments as follows: this motion to recommit. demic with the resources to address the hous- On page 61, line 14, after the first dollar Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance ing crisis facing people living with AIDS in amount, insert ‘‘(increased by $350,000,000)’’ of my time. communities throughout the Nation. and, The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the The HOPWA Program provides community- On page 61, line 15, strike ‘‘September 1, gentleman from California [Mr. LEWIS] 1997’’ and insert ‘‘September 30, 1997’’. based, cost-effective housing for thousands of seek recognition on the motion to re- people living with AIDS and their families. This The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- commit? amendment would save funds that would, in tleman from Ohio [Mr. STOKES] is rec- Mr. LEWIS of California. I do, Mr. the absence of the housing and services pro- ognized for 5 minutes in support of his Speaker. vided in a HOPWA-funded residential facility, motion to recommit. Mr. Speaker, as all my colleagues result in higher expenditures for hospital or Mr. STOKES. Mr. Speaker, earlier in know, as a result of these last couple of emergency room costs. For example, an general debate I made reference to the days this is a very important, a very acute-care bed for an AIDS patient costs on fact that it was my intention to vote interesting, a very complex bill. To say average $1,085 a day, whereas the housing for this bill. I said at that time that the least, it is a difficult bill with and services provided in a HOPWA-funded the bill was not a perfect bill, but be- many a compromise, an attempt to bal- residential facility costs between one-tenth and cause of the fact that the chairman and ance and measure and weigh carefully one-twentieth of that amount. In fact, it is esti- I had truly worked in a real bipartisan that which makes good sense for all mated that HOPWA dollars reduce the use of manner to bring to the floor a bill on those who care about the subject areas emergency health care services by an esti- which he and I both agreed, there were of this legislation. mated $47,000 per person per year. certain parts of the bill that still need- In the discussion that we had earlier Without this valuable program thousands of ed improvement, we were both commit- regarding the AmeriCorps program, we people suffering from AIDS would risk home- ted to working on that bill together did essentially come to an agreement lessness, and quite possibly, premature death both here and in conference, and that within the House that involved an due to exposure, poor nutrition, stress, and based upon that I had intended to vote amendment that raided the Hostettler lack of medical care. for the bill. amendment. We left a minimum basic Mr. Chairman, this amendment is socially, Let me just remind the Members of level for AmeriCorps in the bill as a re- morally, and fiscally responsible. I urge my what happened on this floor today that sult of that amendment, and indeed it colleagues to support it. has changed that from my position. was our understanding that we would The CHAIRMAN. If there are no fur- Mr. Speaker, earlier today we had work with that as we move towards the ther amendments, under the rule the $122.4 million in additional cuts by conference, and it relates to a lot of Committee rises. amendments offered on the floor, and the rest of the bill. Accordingly the Committee rose; and this is a bill that already in the area of Later an amendment came to us that the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. LAHOOD) HUD had been cut $2.3 billion in the was not one that we had talked about having assumed the chair, Mr. COM- bill as reported. before or had any in-depth discussion, BEST, Chairman of the Committee of AmeriCorps; there was an amend- but it was an amendment heartfelt but the Whole House on the State of the ment by the gentleman from Indiana also that put this program against vet- Union, reported that that Committee, [Mr. HOSTETTLER] which the House de- erans’ programs, and my colleagues having had under consideration the feated where he proposed to take all of know we discussed what we do with bill, (H.R. 3666), making appropriations the money out of AmeriCorps. The those programs. for the Departments of Veterans Af- House defeated that amendment by a So we kind of reversed ourselves fairs and Housing and Urban Develop- vote of 240 to 183. Fifty Republicans there, and this motion to recommit is ment, and for sundry independent voted with us to defeat that bill. Later essentially to take us back to the posi- agencies, boards, commissions, cor- on during the day the gentleman from tion that we were in earlier in terms of porations, and offices for the fiscal Kansas [Mr. TIAHRT] had an amend- our general understanding about this year ending September 30, 1997, and for ment which again proposed to take all and a lot of another items. other purposes, pursuant to House Res- of the money out of AmeriCorps. That So, with that, I know some Members olution 456, he reported the bill back to amendment was accepted without a have reservations, but we are in the the House with sundry amendments vote by the chairman of the sub- process of measuring this program adopted by the Committee of the committee and was accepted for rea- carefully, and at this point in time I Whole. sons. I understood the reasons, but it would strongly urge my colleagues to The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under took all the money back out of respond to my ranking member, the the rule, the previous question is or- AmeriCorps again. gentleman from Ohio [Mr. STOKES] who dered. Mr. Speaker, we had provided $367 has cooperated in depth in this pro- Is a separate vote demanded on any million in this bill, which was already gram, and I urge my colleagues to sup- amendment? If not, the Chair will put below the President’s request. I think port the motion to recommit. them en gros. by eliminating AmeriCorps from this Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance The amendments were agreed to. bill what we are doing is inviting a of my time. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The veto of this bill. This is a pet of the PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY question is on the engrossment and President, and I think we can assure Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Speaker, I third reading of the bill. our colleagues it is going to be vetoed. have a parliamentary inquiry. June 26, 1996 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H6949 The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- Studds Torres Ward The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Stupak Torricelli Waters tleman will state his parliamentary in- Tanner Towns Watt (NC) the passage of the bill. quiry. Taylor (MS) Traficant Waxman Pursuant to clause 7 of rule XV, the Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Speaker, if Tejeda Velazquez Williams years and nays are ordered. no Member has spoken against the mo- Thompson Vento Wilson The vote was taken by electronic de- Thornton Visclosky Wise tion to recommit, is there time avail- Thurman Volkmer Woolsey vice, and there were—yeas 269, nays able to speak against the motion? Torkildsen Walsh Wynn 147, not voting 17, as follows: The SPEAKER pro tempore. Five NOES—212 [Roll No. 282] minutes in opposition to the motion Allard Frisa Myers YEAS—269 was in order, and the gentleman from Archer Funderburk Myrick Allard Frank (MA) Molinari California [Mr. LEWIS] used the 5 min- Armey Gallegly Nethercutt Archer Franks (CT) Mollohan utes. There is no more time remaining. Bachus Ganske Neumann Armey Frelinghuysen Montgomery Baker (CA) Gekas Ney Without objection, the previous ques- Baesler Frisa Moorhead Baker (LA) Geren Norwood Baker (CA) Frost Morella tion is ordered on the motion to recom- Ballenger Gilchrest Nussle Baker (LA) Funderburk Myers mit. Barr Gillmor Oxley Ballenger Gallegly Myrick There was no objection. Barrett (NE) Gingrich Packard Barcia Ganske Nethercutt Bartlett Goodlatte Parker Barr Gekas Ney The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Barton Goodling Paxon Barrett (NE) Geren Norwood question is on the motion to recommit. Bass Goss Petri Barrett (WI) Gilchrest Nussle The question was taken; and the Bateman Graham Pombo Bartlett Gillmor Ortiz Bilbray Greene (UT) Porter Speaker pro tempore announced that Bass Gilman Orton Bilirakis Greenwood Portman Bateman Goodlatte Oxley the noes appeared to have it. Bliley Gutknecht Pryce Bentsen Goodling Packard Boehlert Hall (TX) Radanovich RECORDED VOTE Bereuter Gordon Parker Boehner Hancock Ramstad Bilbray Goss Paxon Mr. STOKES. Mr. Speaker, I demand Bonilla Hansen Regula Bilirakis Graham Payne (VA) a recorded vote. Bono Hastert Riggs Bishop Greene (UT) Peterson (MN) A recorded vote was ordered. Brownback Hastings (WA) Roberts Bliley Greenwood Pombo Bryant (TN) Hayworth Rogers Blute Gunderson Porter The vote was taken by electronic de- Bunning Hefley Rohrabacher Boehlert Gutknecht Portman vice, and there were—ayes 205, noes 212, Burr Heineman Ros-Lehtinen Boehner Hall (TX) Poshard not voting 17, as follows: Burton Herger Roth Bonilla Hansen Pryce Buyer Hilleary Roukema Bono Harman Quillen [Roll No 281] Callahan Hobson Royce Boucher Hastert Quinn AYES—205 Calvert Hoekstra Salmon Brewster Hastings (WA) Radanovich Camp Hoke Sanford Brown (OH) Hayworth Abercrombie Foglietta McNulty Rahall Campbell Hostettler Saxton Brownback Hefley Ackerman Ford Meehan Ramstad Canady Houghton Scarborough Bryant (TN) Hefner Andrews Frank (MA) Meek Regula Castle Hunter Schaefer Bunn Heineman Baesler Frost Menendez Richardson Chabot Hutchinson Seastrand Bunning Herger Baldacci Furse Millender- Riggs Chambliss Hyde Sensenbrenner Burr Hilleary Barcia Gejdenson McDonald Rivers Chenoweth Inglis Shadegg Burton Hobson Barrett (WI) Gilman Miller (CA) Roberts Chrysler Istook Shaw Buyer Hoekstra Beilenson Gonzalez Minge Rogers Clinger Johnson (CT) Shuster Callahan Hoke Bentsen Gordon Mink Rohrabacher Coble Johnson, Sam Smith (MI) Calvert Holden Bereuter Green (TX) Moakley Ros-Lehtinen Coburn Jones Smith (NJ) Camp Horn Berman Gunderson Mollohan Roth Collins (GA) Kasich Smith (TX) Campbell Hostettler Bishop Gutierrez Montgomery Roukema Combest Kelly Smith (WA) Canady Houghton Blumenauer Hamilton Moran Royce Cooley Kim Solomon Castle Hunter Blute Harman Morella Salmon Cox King Souder Chabot Hutchinson Bonior Hastings (FL) Murtha Saxton Crane Kingston Spence Chambliss Hyde Borski Hefner Nadler Scarborough Crapo Knollenberg Stearns Chapman Inglis Boucher Hilliard Neal Schaefer Cremeans Kolbe Stockman Chenoweth Istook Brewster Hinchey Oberstar Schiff Cubin LaHood Stump Chrysler Johnson (CT) Brown (CA) Holden Obey Seastrand Cunningham Largent Talent Clinger Johnson (SD) Brown (FL) Horn Olver Shadegg Deal Latham Tate Coble Johnson, Sam Brown (OH) Hoyer Ortiz Shaw DeLay Laughlin Tauzin Coburn Jones Bryant (TX) Jackson (IL) Orton Shuster Diaz-Balart Lewis (KY) Taylor (NC) Collins (GA) Kanjorski Bunn Jackson-Lee Owens Sisisky Dickey Lightfoot Thomas Combest Kasich Cardin (TX) Pallone Skeen Doolittle Linder Thornberry Condit Kelly Chapman Jacobs Pastor Skelton Dornan Livingston Tiahrt Cooley Kim Clay Jefferson Payne (NJ) Smith (MI) Dreier LoBiondo Upton Cox King Clayton Johnson (SD) Payne (VA) Smith (NJ) Duncan Longley Vucanovich Cramer Kingston Clement Johnson, E. B. Pelosi Smith (TX) Dunn Lucas Walker Crane Kleczka Clyburn Johnston Peterson (MN) Smith (WA) Ehrlich Manzullo Wamp Crapo Klug Collins (IL) Kanjorski Pickett Solomon English Martini Watts (OK) Cremeans Knollenberg Collins (MI) Kaptur Pomeroy Souder Ensign McCollum Weldon (FL) Cubin Kolbe Condit Kennedy (MA) Poshard Spence Everett McCrery Weldon (PA) Cunningham LaHood Costello Kennedy (RI) Quillen Spratt Ewing McHugh Weller Danner Largent Coyne Kennelly Quinn Stearns Fawell McInnis White Davis Latham Cramer Kildee Rahall Stenholm Flanagan McIntosh Whitfield de la Garza LaTourette Cummings Kleczka Rangel Stockman Foley McKeon Wicker Deal Laughlin Danner Klink Reed Stokes Forbes Metcalf Wolf DeLay Lazio Davis Klug Richardson Stump Fowler Meyers Young (AK) Diaz-Balart Leach de la Garza LaFalce Rivers Talent Fox Mica Young (FL) Dickey Lewis (CA) DeFazio Lantos Roemer Tanner Franks (CT) Miller (FL) Zeliff Dingell Lewis (KY) DeLauro LaTourette Rose Tate Franks (NJ) Molinari Zimmer Doolittle Lightfoot Dellums Lazio Rush Tauzin Frelinghuysen Moorhead Dornan Linder Deutsch Leach Sabo Taylor (MS) Doyle Livingston Dicks Levin Sanders NOT VOTING—17 Taylor (NC) Dreier LoBiondo Dingell Lewis (CA) Sawyer Thomas Becerra Fields (TX) Lincoln Dunn Longley Dixon Lewis (GA) Schiff Thornberry Bevill Flake McDade Edwards Lucas Doggett Lipinski Schroeder Tiahrt Browder Gephardt Peterson (FL) Ehlers Manzullo Dooley Lofgren Schumer Torkildsen Christensen Gibbons Roybal-Allard Ehrlich Martini Doyle Lowey Scott Traficant Coleman Hall (OH) Yates English Mascara Durbin Luther Serrano Upton Conyers Hayes Ensign McCollum Edwards Maloney Shays Vucanovich Everett McCrery Ehlers Manton Sisisky b Walker 2326 Ewing McHugh Engel Markey Skaggs Walsh Fawell McInnis Eshoo Martinez Skeen Mr. CLINGER and Mr. HOUGHTON Wamp Fazio McIntosh Evans Mascara Skelton changed their vote from ‘‘aye‘‘ to ‘‘no.’’ Watts (OK) Flanagan McKeon Farr Matsui Slaughter Weldon (FL) So the motion to recommit was re- Foley Metcalf Fattah McCarthy Spratt Weldon (PA) jected. Forbes Meyers Fazio McDermott Stark Weller Fowler Mica Fields (LA) McHale Stenholm The result of the vote was announced White Fox Miller (FL) Filner McKinney Stokes as above recorded. Whitfield H6950 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 26, 1996 Wicker Wolf Zeliff POSSIBLE VOTE ON HOUSE RESO- PROVIDING FOR CONSIDERATION Wilson Young (AK) Zimmer Wise Young (FL) LUTION 463, DISAPPROVAL OF OF HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION MOST-FAVORED-NATION TREAT- 182, DISAPPROVING EXTENSIONS NAYS—147 MENT FOR CHINA OF MOST-FAVORED-NATION STA- Abercrombie Hancock Oberstar (Mr. SOLOMON asked and was given TUS TO PRODUCTS OF PEOPLE’S Ackerman Hastings (FL) Obey REPUBLIC OF CHINA, AND HOUSE Andrews Hilliard Olver permission to address the House for 1 Baldacci Hinchey Owens minute.) JOINT RESOLUTION 461, REGARD- Barton Hoyer Pallone Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I would ING THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF Beilenson Jackson (IL) Pastor CHINA Berman Jackson-Lee Payne (NJ) say to my good friend, the ranking Blumenauer (TX) Pelosi member of the Rules Committee, that Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, by di- Bonior Jacobs Petri rection of the Committee on Rules, I Borski Jefferson Pickett we are about to take up the rule on the Brown (CA) Johnson, E. B. Pomeroy motion to disapprove most-favored-na- call up House Resolution 463 and ask Brown (FL) Johnston Rangel tion treatment for China. We do not ex- for its immediate consideration. Bryant (TX) Kaptur Reed pect to call for a vote over here even The Clerk read the resolution, as fol- Cardin Kennedy (MA) Roemer lows: Clay Kennedy (RI) Rose though all of our time will probably be Clayton Kennelly Rush used. H. RES. 463 Clement Kildee Sabo Mr. Speaker, I would just ask the Resolved, That upon the adoption of this Clyburn Klink Sanders resolution it shall be in order to consider in Collins (IL) LaFalce Sanford gentleman if he expects anybody on his side of the aisle to call for a vote on the House the joint resolution (H.J. Res. 182) Collins (MI) Lantos Sawyer disapproving the extension of nondiscrim- Conyers Levin Schroeder this rule this evening. inatory treatment (most-favored-nation Costello Lewis (GA) Schumer Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, will the Coyne Lipinski Scott treatment) to the products of the People’s Cummings Lofgren Sensenbrenner gentleman yield? Republic of China. All points of order against DeFazio Lowey Serrano Mr. SOLOMON. I yield to the gen- the joint resolution and against its consider- DeLauro Luther Shays tleman from Massachusetts. ation are waived. The joint resolution shall Dellums Maloney Skaggs Mr. MOAKLEY. Mr. Speaker, we be debatable for two hours equally divided Deutsch Manton Slaughter and controlled by the chairman of the Com- Dicks Markey Stark have requests for time, we do not have mittee on Ways and Means (in opposition to Dixon Martinez Studds any requests for votes, and I am not Doggett Matsui Stupak the joint resolution) and a Member in sup- Dooley McCarthy Tejeda going to call for a vote. port of the joint resolution. Pursuant to sec- Duncan McDermott Thompson Mr. SOLOMON. Therefore, we would tions 152 and 153 of the Trade Act of 1974, the Durbin McHale Thornton not anticipate a vote on the rule al- previous question shall be considered as or- Engel McKinney Thurman though there is not any guarantee. dered on the joint resolution to final passage Eshoo McNulty Torres without intervening motion. The provisions Evans Meehan Torricelli Mr. MOAKLEY. The gentleman is ex- of sections 152 and 153 of the Trade Act of Farr Meek Towns actly right. Fattah Menendez Velazquez 1974 shall not apply to any other joint resolu- Fields (LA) Millender- Vento tion disapproving the extension of most-fa- Filner McDonald Visclosky f vored-nation treatment to the People’s Re- Foglietta Miller (CA) Volkmer public of China for the remainder of the One Ford Minge Ward ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING Hundred Fourth Congress. Franks (NJ) Mink Waters SEC. 2. After disposition of House Joint Furse Moakley Watt (NC) AMENDMENT PROCESS FOR LEG- Resolution 182 pursuant to the first section Gejdenson Moran Waxman ISLATIVE BRANCH Gonzalez Murtha Williams of this resolution, it shall be in order to con- Green (TX) Nadler Woolsey APPROPRIATONS BILL sider in the House the resolution (H. Res. 461) Gutierrez Neal Wynn Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, the regarding human rights abuses, nuclear and Hamilton Neumann Rules Committee is planning to meet chemical weapons proliferation, illegal weap- NOT VOTING—17 ons trading, military intimidation of Tai- on Tuesday, July 9, to grant a rule wan, and trade violations by the People’s Re- Bachus Fields (TX) Lincoln which may limit the amendments of- public of China and the People’s Liberation Becerra Flake McDade fered to the legislative branch appro- Army, and directing the committees of juris- Bevill Gephardt Peterson (FL) Browder Gibbons Roybal-Allard priations bill. diction to commence hearings and report ap- Christensen Hall (OH) Yates Members who wish to offer amend- propriate legislation. The resolution shall be Coleman Hayes ments to the bill should submit 55 cop- debatable for one hour equally divided and ies of heir amendments, together with controlled by Representative Cox of Califor- b 2342 a brief explanation, to the Rules Com- nia or his designee and a Member opposed to the resolution. The previous question shall Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin changed mittee office in H–312 of the Capitol, no be considered as ordered on the resolution to his vote from ‘‘nay’’ to ‘‘yea.’’ later than noon on Monday, July 8. final adoption without intervening motion. So the bill was passed. Amendments should be drafted to the The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. The result of the vote was announced bill as ordered reported by the LAHOOD). The gentleman from New as above recorded. Appropriatons Committee. Copies of York [Mr. SOLOMON] is recognized for 1 A motion to reconsider was laid on the text will be available for examina- hour. the table. tion by Members and staff in the of- Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, for the fices of the Appropriatons Committee purpose of debate only, I yield the cus- f in H–218 of the Capitol. tomary 30 minutes to the gentleman Members should use the Office of from Massachusetts [Mr. MOAKLEY], REPORT ON RESOLUTION PROVID- Legislative Counsel to ensure that pending which I yield myself such time ING FOR CONSIDERATION OF their amendments are properly drafted as I may consume. During consider- CONCURRENT RESOLUTION PRO- and should check with the Office of the ation of this resolution, all time yield- VIDING FOR ADJOURNMENT OF Parliamentarian to be certain their ed is for the purpose of debate only. HOUSE AND SENATE FOR INDE- amendments comply with the rules of (Mr. SOLOMON asked and was given PENDENCE DAY WORK PERIOD the House. permission to revise and extend his re- Mr. DIAZ-BALART, from the Com- Any off-set amendments should be marks and include extraneous mate- mittee on Rules, submitted a privi- scored by CBO to ensure compliance rial.) leged report (Rept. No. 104–640) on the with clause 2(f) of rule 21, which re- Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, House resolution (H. Res. 465) providing for quires that they not increase the over- Resolution 463 is a rule providing for consideration of a concurrent resolu- all levels of budget authority and out- the consideration of two measures. The tion providing for adjournment of the lays in the bill. first measure is House Joint Resolu- House and Senate for the Independence We appreciate the cooperation of all tion 182, a resolution disapproving the Day district work period, which was re- Members in submitting their amend- extension of most-favored-nation treat- ferred to the House Calendar and or- ments by the noon, July 8, deadline in ment to the products of the People’s dered to be printed. properly drafted form. Republic of China. It was introduced by