Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 30 MARCH 1971

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

3308 Questions Upon Notice [30 MARCH] Questions Upon Notice

TUESDAY, 30 MARCH, 1971 ( 6) As the statement "What are you knocking your head up against a brick wall for? It wiil be pulled out after the other Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, one has been pulled out" has now been Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair checked, what is the result of the check at 11 a.m. and did it confirm that this statement was made? (7) As Wilson drove at speeds of up to PAPERS and over 70 m.p.h. on the incorrect side The following papers were laid on the of double white lines and in the wrong table:- direction in a one-way street, does this Proclamation under the James Cook Uni­ mean that all lesser instances of dangerous versity of North Queensland Act driving will not be prosecuted in future? 1970. ( 8) What consideration was paid to Orders in Council under- have this charge, which was one of the The Rural Training Schools Act of most blatant and serious examples of 1965. dangerous driving in the last ten years, The Grammar Schools Acts, 1860 to dropped? 1962. The Agricultural Bank (Loans) Act of Answers:- 1959. (1 and 2) "It was intended to seek leave The Fauna Conservation Act of 1952. of the Court to withdraw the charge. Such The Soil Conservation Act of 1965. leave was granted and the Stipendiary The Wheat Pool Acts, 1920 to 1957. Magistrate dismissed the complaint against The Harbours Acts, 1955 to 1968. Wilson on March 19, 1971; no evidence Beach Protection Act 1968-1970. was offered." Regulations under- (3) "Because the matter was still before The Apiaries Act of 1947. the Court and had not been decided. It was quite competent for the Stipendiary The Primary Producers' Organisation Magistrate not to accede to the Prosecutor's and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1966. request." The Regulation of Sugar Cane Prices Acts, 1962 to 1966. (4) "Crown Law advice is that the evidence would not substantiate a charge The Apprenticeship Act of 1964. of dangerous driving." Statutes under the University of Queens­ land Act of 1965. (5) "The breaches have not as yet been adjudicated upon by the District Super­ intendent of Traffic." QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE (6) "It has not been confirmed that the words were used. The reporting officer DANGEROUS-DRIVING CHARGE, J. D. claims, however, that words to the effect WILSON that 'breaches would be pulled out as had Mr. Davies for Mr. Bennett, pursuant to been dooe with ooe previously' were used notice, asked The Minister for Works,- by Mr. Wilson." ( 1) With reference to his Answer to my (7 and 8) "No. Where evidence to sub­ Question on March 12 concerning a stantiate an offence of dangerous driving dangerous-driving charge, will he further is obtained, prosecutions will ensue; and explain his intention when he stated that it I resent the suggestion made. There is no is proposed to seek permission from the evidence to indicate that any consideration stipendiary magistrate to take a certain was paid to any person. See Answer to course? part ( 4) of the Question as to why the charge was withdrawn." (2) Does this mean that no evidence was offered?

( 3) On what basis did he claim that the ASSAULT ON MR. J. E. GRIGG matter was sub judice when it was intended (a) Mr. Davies for Mr. Bennett, pursuant to offer no evidence? to 11otice, asked The Minister for Works,- ( 4) Why was no evidence offered in this In view of the information contained in case? his letter dated March 15, 1971, to the effect that, when Mr. J. E. Grigg of 31 (5) In view of his Answer that Wilson Rosina Street, Kangaroo Point, was was also booked by the police subsequently attacked with a yabby pump a police officer for driving a motor vehicle without lights was present with the assailant, why has not and with no number plates and no mud­ the police officer been charged with the guards, what action is to be taken in con­ attack as a party to or an accesssory after nection with these offences? the fact? Questions Upon Notice (30 MARCH] Questions Upon Notice 3309

Answer:- SAND REPLENISHMENT OF GOLD COAST "Crown Law advice is that there is BEACHES insufficient evidence to warrant this course Mr. Hinze, pursuant to notice, asked The of action being taken." Minister for Conservation,- ( 1) What are the latest recommenda­ (b) Mr. Davies for Mr. Bennett, pursuant tions from the Beach Protection Authority to notice, asked The Minister for Works,- regarding the eroded beaches at Coolan­ gatta, Kirra and Greenmount? ( 1) With reference to my Question on March 12 regarding an assault on J. E. (2) Is it proposed to commence any Grigg of 31 Rosina Street, Kangaroo Point, beach-replenishment work and, if so, when? on 1 anuary 2, what enquiries have been made about this assault and what are the ( 3) What are the latest recommenda­ names and addresses of the offenders? tions concerning the Delft Report and the financing of associated works? (2) When the offender struck Grigg with the yabby pump, necessitating 18 ( 4) Is he in a position to advise the stitches in his face, what did the offender's House as to the recommended priority of mate, who was with him and who is a works? member of the Queensland Police Force, (5) Is the investigation work at the do to restrain his wild and ferocious model test at the Queensland University, friend? under the supervision of Professor Gordon McKay, completed and, if so, what are his ( 3) Will the policeman be prosecuted under the provisions of sections 7 and 8 recommendations? of the Criminal Code? If not, what is the reason? Answers:- (! to 4) "A financial policy with respect ( 4) Who is the policeman concerned and to beach protection and maintenance works what is his rank? on the Gold Coast has been considered by Cabine.t and Cabinet has decided-( 1) Answers:- That an expenditure in excess of $29 ( 1 ) "The matter was fully investigated million required to implement the Delft by members of the Criminal Investigation Laboratory report recommendations is Branch, Brisbane. Action has been com­ beyond the financial resource of this State. menced against a person. As the matter is (2) That before further consideration can sub judice, I do not intend to give the be given towards implementing the findings name and address of the person charged." in the report an approach be made to the Commonwealth Government for a special (2) "TI1e investigations made have failed loan of $7 · 7 million to cover the heavy to show that the police officer took any expenditure in the second year of the pro­ action to prevent the alleged attack. At posed programme of works. (3) That the the time the incident occurred, the police Gold Coast City Council be asked to indi­ officer was and still is undergoing National cate whether it will undertake to carry out Service Training. Crown Law advice is the necessary beach maintenance works that a police officer on leave for National estimated to cost in excess of $8 million Service would be relieved of his obliga­ over 20 years. The cost of these beach tions as a member of the Police Force and, maintenance works together with the cost consequently, the person concerned was of loans to the Council for beach protection not under the supervision of the Com­ works are estimated to involve the Council missioner." in general rate increases of 46 per cent. by (3) "No. Crown Law advice is that 1973-74 rising to a 52 per cent. increase there is insufficient evidence to warrant this by 1975-76 based upon today's general course of action being taken." rate. ( 4) That further consideration will be given to the findings in the Delft report (4) "Constable Robert James Campbell." when the responses to these approaches to the Commonwealth Government and the Gold Coast City Council are known." HOUSING COMMISSION RENTAL ACCOM­ (5) "No." MODATION, TOWNSVILLE Mr. Tucker, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Works,- SHORT-SELLING OF SHARES, ANTIMONY How many applications for rental NICKEL N.L. housing, in all categories, are presently Mr. Hanlon, pursuant to notice, asked The held by the Housing Commission, Towns­ Minister for Justice,- ville? ( 1) Has his attention been drawn to the situation on the Sydney Stock Exchange Answer:- where, it is suggested in the Austral!an "201 comprising-lOO points, three; 80 Financial Review of March 24, short-sellmg points, two; 60 points, 12; 40 points, 34; has reached such a farcical pitch in without points, 150." Antimony Nickel N.L. that two big buying 3310 Questions Upon Notice [30 MARCH] Questions Upon Notice

groups now hold 105 per cent. of the LAND FOR Q.A.T.B., NORTH ROCKHAMPTON company's issued capital and, counting Mr. Davies for Mr. Thackeray, pursuant other buyers and holders of scrip, approxi­ to notice, asked The Minister for mately 20 per cent. more than the actual Lands,- issued capital has been sold? When will an area of land in Berserker (2) Did he further note in the same Street, North Rockhampton, be made paper of March 25 a claim attributed to available to the Rockhampton Q.A.T.B. for a sub-centre? a leading Melbourne sharebroker that trading in the shares had been suspended Answer:- by the Sydney Stock Exchange Committee, entirely for the benefit of the Sydney "The application by the Rockhampton Q.A.T.B., along with other applications for members, presumably indicating that land abutting Berserker Street, Rock­ several Sydney brokers were themselves hampton, is still under consideration. When caught in short positions in this stock and investigations have been completed and a that it was positively against the interests decision has been made, I will communi­ of genuine shareholders? cate that decision in writing to the Honourable Member." ( 3 ) In view of this and the action of the Sydney Exchange in setting buying maximums on the stock for re-listing below WEEK-END SUBURBAN RAIL SERVICE, the pre-suspension last-sale levels, with BRISBANE regard to the Brisbane Stock Exchange, (a) is short-selling, i.e., selling by people Mr. Bousen, pursuant to notice, asked The who do not own shares, anticipating a Minister for Transport,- falling price and intending to buy cheaper Has a feasibility study been made into later to fulfil the contract, permitted and, the running of, and passenger traffic on, if so, to what extent is it countenanced by Brisbane suburban passenger trains during members of the Exchange, are they week-ends? If so, has it been decided that required to disclose the transactions for there will be no further suburban passenger public information and are they required trains after the peak-hour traffic has to support them with securities or cash in subsided on each Saturday afternoon until excess of the initial value; and (b) what the following Monday morning? action can he take in due course under the new Securities Industry Act to ensure that Answer:- the Stock Exchange does not look after its "Studies of passenger and other traffic own at the expense of genuine shareholders are continually being made but there has and inhibit here the casino-like situation of been no decision of the type assumed by the Sydney Exchange? the Honourable Member."

Answers:­ SILTING, WYNNUM CREEK (!) "Yes." Mr. Harris, pursuant to notice, asked The (2) "Yes." Minister for Conservation,- ( 1) Is he aware that Wynnum Creek has (3) "(a) Following the custom in silted to such an extent that on March 25 Sydney, London and New York, the Bris­ loaded incoming fishing boats were unable bane Stock Exchange permits short-selling. to proceed to the Wynnum Fish Depot However, the practice is controlled in that wharf to unload? sales are permitted where such sales do not have the effect of forcing down the market. (2) As the delay in unloading fish by Members of the Brisbane Stock Exchange dinghy or waiting for an incoming tide discourage the practice which usually is would seriously affect the quality of the limited to transactions between brokers or fish from a health point of view, will he on behalf of well known clients. The take urgent action to have this problem Brisbane Stock Exchange has adopted a overcome? reporting requirement on short sales in Answer:- line with that of the Sydney Stock Exchange as follows:-(i) A member shall ( 1 and 2) "I an1 not aware of any repo,rt to the secretary by noon on the serious siltation of Wynnum Creek, but I first business day of each week all short have arranged for an early examination of sales outstanding as at the close of business the matter." in the previous week both as principal and on behalf of clients. (ii) The secretary HousiNG CoMMISSION OPERATIONs, shall on the following business day release CAIRNS a record of the total short position in each stock showing the name of the security and Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked the total number thereof. (b) The The Minister for Works,- Security Industry Act 1971 makes it an ( 1) How many applications for housing offence to engage in short-selling unless the accommodation are at present registered as dealer is informed of the position." outstanding with the Queensland Housing Questions Upon Notice [30 MARCH] Questions Upon Notice 3311

Commission through the Clerk of the LocAL GoVERNMENT AssiSTANCE FUND Court, Cairns, for (a) rental and (b) Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked home ownership? The Minister for Local Govemment,- (2) How many applicants have been Is he aware of the Local Government allotted (a) rental and (b) purchase Assistance Fund set up in New South Wales homes during 1970 and in 1971 to date? to which the Commonwealth has been requested to provide matching grants? If (3) How many new houses were erected so, how does the fund operate and has for (a) rental and (b) home ownership any comparable action on the setting-up in the same periods? of a similar fund been contemplated in order to have the Commonwealth provide ( 4) In what numbers have outstanding matching subsidies for the local authorities applicants, in their respective categories of Queensland? of priority, applied for rental homes? Answer:- Answers:- "Yes. The fund referred to by the (!) " (a) 54; (b) 110 names are listed Honourable Member is administered by as possible homeownership applicants. Such the Local Government Grants Commission list is subject to review every six months." of New South Wales, pursuant to the Local Government (Grants Commission) (2) "(a) Three during 1970, nil in 1971; Amendment Act 1968 of that State. I am (b) five in 1970 being two houses sold not aware that the Commonwealth has been to tenants and three homeownership on requested to provide grants to match those applicants land, nil from January 1 to granted by the Commission." Febmary 28, 1971."

(3) "(a) Nil; (b) three on applicants MINING OF LIMESTONE CAVES, MOUNT land in 1970, nil from January 1 to ETNA February 28, 1971. A house on applicants Mr. Davies for Mr. Wright, pursuant to land was under construction at February notice, asked The Premier,- 28, 1971. During 1970, 12 homeownership houses were provided by an allocation to In view of his Answer to my Question the Northern Co-operative Housing without notice on March 25, concerning Society and from January 1 to February the mining of limestone caves at Mt. Etna, that an investigation is being carried out 28, 1971, a further three were provided. by the Mines Department to find alterna­ The 1970-71 allocation for this Society tive sources of limestone, will he also is $180,000." initiate an investigation to ascertain what ( 4) "Applications on hand at present damage is being done to the cave structures comprise:-100 points, one; 80 points, one; in the immediate vicinity of the area at present being mined? 60 points, nil; 40 points, three; without points, 49." Answer:- "A special investigation is not considered necessary as the company concerned is EQUAL PAY, NURSES AND NURSING observing its undertaking not to mine AIDES within 66 feet of known caves. Addition­ Mr. R. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked ally, the mining operations and their effect The Minister for Health,- on cave structures are under the continual ( 1 ) Is it the Government's intention to surveillance ,of the inspector of mines at give effect to the decision of the Common­ Rockhampton." wealth Conciliation and Arbitration Com­ mission in the equal pay case of 1969 whereby nursing aides qualify for equal INSPECTORIAL ARRANGEMENTS, COM­ pay because the work is performed by MONWEALTH AND STATE INDUSTRIAL both men and women? AWARDS Mr. Bromley, pursuant to notice, asked (2) What will the Government's attitude be, in relation to qualified nursing sisters The Minister for Labour and Tourism,- in the light of males being engaged in th~ ( 1) What is the number of industrial nursing profession? inspectors authorised to inspect under State arbitration awards? Answer:- (2) Are only six Commonwealth (! and 2) "Variation of awards cover­ arbitration inspectors stationed in Queens­ ing employees mentioned by the Honour­ land? able Member to provide for 'equal pay' is a matter for determination by the (3) How many employees in Queens­ Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration land are covered by (a) Commonwealth Commission on application by the relevant awards or industrial agreements and (b) union or unions." State awards or agreements? 3312 Questions Upon Notice [30 MARCH] Questions Upon Notice

( 4) Have State inspectors been author­ ( 3) "The health facilities at Mitchell ised to carry out inspections in relation to River, as at other similar centres, are con­ Commonwealth awards and, if so, what tinually under review and are being financial reimbursement is received through improved as is evidenced by the new his Department or other Departments in hospital complex being erected. The Queensland for this service? general health services are under the over­ sight of a medical officer (Health) within Answers:- the Health Department but who is allocated (!) "50." full-time to duties associated with the Aboriginal and Island Affairs Department (2) "Yes." Communities. In addition, the Royal Flying Doctor Service regularly visits the ( 3) "It is not possible to give precise community and the nursing staff have figures. However, the last Survey of the direct radio contact with medical officers Incidence o{ Industrial Awards, Determina­ at Thursday Island and if necessary tions and Collective Agreements carried Cairns, with of course, ready availability out by the Bureau of Census and Statistics of the aerial ambulance service in cases of in May, 1968 estimated at that time, that emergency." 23 · 4 per cent. of Queensland employees were covered by Commonwealth awards and 65 · 9 per cent. by State awards." BRISBANE CITY COUNCIL Bus SERVICES ( 4) ''No; however, my Department has Mr. Hughes, pursuant to notice, asked already had preliminary discussions with The Minister for Transport,- the Commonwealth Department of Labour and National Service on the question of As he, in his Answer to my Question reciprocal inspectorial arrangements. Much on March 25, stated that the Commissioner more negotiation is required before Queens­ for Transport has power in relation to the land decides whether it will enter into determination of routes, time tables and reciprocal inspectorial arrangements. If fares of the Brisbane City Council's public agreement can be reached it will be of transport system and due to increasing benefit to industry generally as it will public indignation because of the slashing obviate the necessity for the duplication of of services, which is causing inconvenience inspections by Commonwealth and State and increasing the cost to the public inspectors which presently exists where because of the inefficient service, will he Commonwealth and State awards both or have the Commissioner investigate all solely apply." aspects of this transport system? Answer:- "No. The Brisbane City Council is in NEW HOSPITAL, MITCHELL RIVER the same position as private bus operators COMMUNITY throughout the State many of whom, Mr. Wallis-Smitb, pursuant to notice, asked especially in provincial cities, have found The Minister for Conservation,- it necessary for financial reasons to reduce ( 1 ) When will the new hospital at or eliminate services. The reduced services Mitchell River be completed and ready to approved by the Commissioner for Trans­ receive patients? port after consideration of applications submitted by the Council were in the main (2) What was the main cause of the confined to those at night and weekends. delay in having this building completed? Included among the objections which were ( 3) Has consideration been given to the considered by the Commissioner for Trans­ handing over of the medical requirements port were the following:-June 25, 1970- at Mitchell River to the Health Department Mr. G. T. Chinchen, M.L.A.-Holland and, if not, will he have this change Park, Mt. Gravatt and Cavendish Road implemented in order to provide these 600 Bus Services; October 30, 1970-Mrs. L. Aboriginal Queenslanders with health Wessling, Beeby Street, Nundah-Nudgee­ facilities similar to those enjoyed by non­ Virginia and Northgate Bus Services; Aboriginal Queenslanders? November 20, 1970, November 30, 1970, January 5, 1971, January 6, 1971-Mr. W. D. Hewitt, M.L.A.-Elimination of Answers:- Newman Avenue Bus Service and re­ ( 1 and 2) "It is not possible to routing of Chatsworth Road Services; accurately forecast completion date for the November 19, 1970--Mrs. V. Schaffer, Mitchell River Hospital as this is solely Gotha Street, Camp Hill-Elimination of dependent upon climatic conditions which Newman Avenue Bus Service and re­ presently preclude the transport of the routing of Chatsworth Road Services; materials required for its completion. The November 18, 1970-J\,f. L. Thomsett. contractor has made several attempts to Newman Avenue, Camp Hill-Elimination transport such materials since December of Newman Avenue Bus Service and rC" 12 last without success. It is expected the routing of Chatsworth Road Services; job will be completed shortly after delivery November 23, 1970-Mr. D. King, Gotha of the material after the present wet Street, Camp Hill-Elimination of New­ season." man Avenue Bus Service and re-routing Questions Upon Notice (30 MARCH] Questions Without Notice 3313

of Chatsworth Road Services; November officer. A right of audience in the 23, 1970--H. G. P. Carroll, Newman Supreme Court does exist for solicitors Avenue, Camp Hill-Elimination of New­ in other States of Australia. However, man Avenue Bus Service and re-routing of as far as New South Wales and Victoria Chatsworth Road Services; November 19, are concerned, although they have this 1970-D. Williams, 127 Boundary Road, right it is unusual for them to exercise it Camp Hill-Elimination of Newman except in matrimonial causes where they Avenue Bus Service and re-routing of do appear in both defended and undefended Chatsworth Road Services; November 20, actions. I am informed that in Victoria 1970-I. Black, Boundary Road, Camp solicitors also do appear in the Supreme Hill-Elimination of Newman Avenue Court in some criminal trials. I was unable Bus Service and re-routing of Chatsworth to ascertain fees charged by them far Road Services; March 8, 1971-Brisbane appearance in Court, although my informa­ Theosophical Society-Reduction of night tion is that the saving to clients by and weekend bus services; November 28, solicitors appearing, if there is any such 1970--CO'\lncil of Progress Associations of saving, is very slight. In Victoria, solicitors Brisbane-Reduction of night and week­ do not usually appear as advocates in end bus services; December 24, 1970- civil actions in the Supreme Court. In Associatioo of Employers of Waterside South Australia, Western Australia and Labour-Reduction of night and weekend Tasmania, there is a fusion of the branches bus services; December 20, 1970-N. of the profession, and solicitors, being Douglas, Iris Street, Holland Park-Reduc­ practitioners of the Court, normally appear tion of night and weekend bus services; before the Supreme Court. It should be December 17, 1970-A. Bruman, 150 appreciated that in these States, and in Lutwyche Road, Windsor-Reduction of Victoria, barristers and solicitors are night and weekend bus services." required to reach the same level of qualifi­ cations. In each of these States there is a select group who have elected to be APPEARANCE OF SOLICITORS BEFORE enrolled as barristers only-approximately SUPREME COURT eight in South Australia and two in Tas­ Mr. Aikens asked The Minister for m'ania. It is a fact of course that in Justice,- Queensland a solicitor may appear in the Supreme Court by leave of the Court and As the people of Queensland are the in certain cases leave has been granted only ones in Australia who are not pro­ accordingly. I have not been able to tected from the rapacity of barristers in ascertain whether the cost to clients in the exercise of their monopoly of appear­ other States where the solicitor appears ance in the Supreme Court, when is it as counsel is any less than the cost of proposed to protect the people of this State employing counsel in Queensland." from exorbitant and unnecessary legal fees and charges by giving solicitors the statutory right to appear in the Supreme QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Court? (Originally asked on March 26) MATERNITY AND THEATRE BLOCK, MACKAY BASE HosPITAL Answer:- Mr. NEWBERY: I ask the Treasurer: Is "I have no evidence that would estab­ he yet in a position to make a statement in lish the rapacity of barristers in this reply to a joint request made to him by State. From enquiries made by me there the Minister for Mines and Main Roads and is nothing to suggest that the people of myself last week regarding the availability Queensland are subject to the payment of of loan funds to the extent of $233,360 to exorbitant and unnecessary legal fees and enable the construction of the new maternity charges. The people of Queensland are and theatre block at the Mackay Base Hospi­ presently afforded protection against the tal to proceed? If not, will he make himself charge of exorbitant costs by the Supreme available later this week to meet a deputation Comi Rules which provide that-(a) where from the Mackay Hospitals Board? a Bill of Costs is delivered by a solicitor to a client, that client may have that Bill Mr. CHALK: The reply to the hon. taxed by the taxing officer of the Supreme gentleman must be along the lines of Court. On a taxation, the taxing officer indicating to him that, to enable it to live will not allow costs which do not appear within its own financial resources, the State to him to have been necessarily or properly Government has already had to cut by incurred or which appear to him to have $10,000,000 its expenditure during the last been incurred improvidently or through few months of the current financial year. negligence; (b) where a party is dissatisfied Because of that, I can appreciate also the with an allowance or disallowance by the problems that debenture borrowers are taxing officer he may object in writing experiencing outside. Although I should like to such allowance or disallowance and to give the hon. member an indication that apply for a review of the taxation; (c) if some help may be given in meeting the still dissatisfied after such review, the party problem at Mackay, the hospital board's may apply to a Judge at Chambers for an problem is similar to that of other debenture order to review the taxation of the taxing borrowers, and all I can say is that the State 3314 Questions Without Notice (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

itself has no financial resources from which Emerald Shire an area of country which will it could come to the aid of the board at effect compensation in full to the aggrieved present. council? Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The hon. RUST-PROOFING AND MECHANICAL INSPECTION member has raised this question from time oF MoTOR-CARS to time in various ways and he has had his answer in relation to it. He knows the Mr. BOUSEN: I direct a question to the Minister for Labour and Tourism. Further Government's attitude on the matter, and he to my question on 3 March, wherein it was will have to be satisfied with that attitude. requested that an inspection be made of all SALE OF CHOCOLATE CIGARETTES second-hand motor-cars for rust and mech­ anical faults, and his answer that it would be M.r. BROMLEY: I direct a question to the economically and administratively impossible Premier. Is he aware that chocolate cigarettes for the Machinery Department to do this, is are available in shops for purchase by he aware that it was reported in "The Sunday children and that they are sold under the Mail" of 28 March that legislation is to be name of well-known brands of real cigarettes? introduced as requested by me and the As this appears to be false advertising and Toowoomba Housewives' Association? In an inducement to young people to formulate view of the fact that this request was made a bad habit by urging them to smoke real less than four weeks ago, will he advise why cigarettes at an early age, will he have this we were not informed of the proposed matter investigated with a view to using his legislation? considerable influence in having this shocking practice discontinued? Mr. HERBERT: The content of pro­ Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I appreciate posed legislation is never advised in advance. the concern of the hon. member. I am not The procedures of this House are well known familiar with the matter he raises, but I will to anyone who has been here for more than have it investigated. a fortnight. FARMERS' ASSISTANCE Mr. BOUSEN: I direct a further question ACT AMENDMENT BILL to the Minister for Labour and Tourism. Did he read an article in "The Sunday Mail" INITIATION of 28 March in which six cases were cited of new and near-new motor-cars with mechanical Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ faults being sold by manufacturers? In case Minister for Lands): I move- No. 5 the car was involved in an accident 'That the House will, at its present because of defective brakes. sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to Mr. Chalk: You can't read it. amend the Farmers' Assistance (Debts Adjustment) Act 1967-1970 in certain Mr. BOUSEN: Shut up, so that I can! particulars." If the proposed new legislation does not Motion agreed to. cover new and near-new cars for road­ worthiness, will the Minister implement ANIMALS PROTECTION ACT legislation to ensure that all new and near­ AMENDMENT BILL new cars are inspected for faults before being sold to the public? INITIATION M.r. SPEAKER: Order! I remind the hon. Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister member that the expression he used was for Works and Housing): I move- unparliamentary. I know he was provoked "That the House will, at its present into saying what he did. I shall not ask him sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of to withdraw it because, as I say, I realise he the Whole to consider introducing a Bill to was provoked. I simply remind him that amend the Animals Protection Acts 1925 it was unparliamentary. to 1957 in certain particulars." Mr. HERBERT: Once again I have been Motion agreed to. asked to forecast legislation, which, as I have already told the hon. member, is not done. ELECTORAL DISTRICTS BILL SECOND READING EXCISION OF AREA, EMERALD SHIRE Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Mr. O'DONNELL: I direct a question to -Premier) (11.39 a.m.): I move- the Premier. As the Government took the initiative in excising a part of the Emerald 'That the Bill be now read a second Shire and including same in the Duaringa time." Shire with a subsequent loss to the Emerald At the outset, let me emphasise that the Shire of approximately $14,000 per annum Government considers this an important Bill. in rural rates, will his Government take the A great deal of mature and considered initiative in remedying this injustice by thought has gone into its many months of transferring from the Duaringa Shire to the preparation. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARcH] Electoral Districts Bill 3315

[n attempting to cater for all the relevant present electorates, as if they were entitled to factors involved and having arrived at the some hereditary or acquired right of prece­ decisions embodied in the Bill, the Govern­ dence over their fellow parliamentarians. All ment's prime consideration has been the I would say to them is that these are matters best interest of the State anrl its people as which will be determined by the electoral a whole. As such, we treat this Bill most commission-not be me, not by Parliament seriously. and, most certainly, not by any political-party executives. After all, if a candidate for When, after introducing the Bill, I was Parliament honestly represents his party's listening to the speeches of Opposition mem­ policy and himself to the people of his bers, my mind went back to 1958 and the elec-torate in the best way he can, and his comments made by some of the then opponent or opponents do likewise, the ulti­ members of the Opposition on that measure. mate factor responsible for his election or The conclusion I reach is that their degree failure will be the people's assessment of those of political wisdom and sophistication has p6licies and of himself and not the drawing not advanced with the years. It is incredible of lines on the State's map. I have every that Opposition members are acting the way confidence in the people's ability to select and that they are in relation to this Bill. elect the Government they want. Mr. Shenington: What about the Liberal The hon. member for Belmont mentioned Party? the growth of outer metropolitan electorates as they are presently constituted. This was Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I am speaking exactly the point made by me in my intro­ about hon. members opposite. They have no ductory speech when I said that this would valid criticism to offer simply because, as I be recognised by the commission and that indicated in my introductory speech, this these and similar disparities would be Bill, like the one in 1958, is based on the adjusted. very principles of the Labour redistribution measure of 1949 under the late Honourable The hon. member for Cook wandered somewhat from the Bill and spoke about E. M. Hanlon. air-travel arrangements and other concessions Reference was made by the Leader of the granted to representatives of country elector­ Opposition to the composition of the pro­ a,tes. I do not know what this has to do with posed electoral commission. He and other electoral redistribution. He was completely hon. members opposite can be assured that, lost, and out of space. If he is disillusioned as previously, it will consist of men of with the material rewards of parliamentary ability and integrity. Neither he nor any office, I am sure there are many other mem­ member of this House will have any cause bers of the ALP. in Cook who would be to complain about the gentlemen who will very willing to subsitute for him on the basis shortly receive their commissions from His of existing air-travel arrangements and other Excellency the Governor to carry out this concessions. work. Dealing with electorates west of the GreUJt The Leader of the Opposition went to some Dividing Range, there is one point that must lengths to retrace the course of events lead­ be comidered. The electorate of Gregory, ing up to the Bill's introduction. Like his for example, covers G1 greater land area than predecessor in 1958, he relied on speculative that of Great Britain, Victoria or-- Press reports, hearsay and rumour. He made Mr. Aikens: And bo.t:h islands of New some play on the consideration which had Zealand. been given to the total number of electoral districts, but then completely lost sight of the Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Yes. fact that the Bill does, in fact, provide for Queensland to be divided, as now, into 78 It covers a greater land area than South electoral districts-not 80, not 79, but 78. Vietnam, or, getting closer to the political So I do not quite know what all the shouting leanings of some Opposition members and was about in that respect. their friends, of Cuba and North Vietnam. Be that as it may, how would the Opposition The Opposition agrees that a redistribution expect one man to attend tJo ~he parliamen­ is necessary; the Leader of the Opposition tary wants of the same number of people states that the Opposition supports this action. in Gregory to the same degree as a man However, it appears to disagree with the with that number in a metropolitan electorate manner in which this is to be done, even of, say, two square miles? Such a suggestion though, as I have said, it is based on the would be completely absurd and ridiculous. principles of the 1949 Labour legislation that the State should be divided into appropriate The hon. member for Townsville North zones so as to provide adequate parliamen­ spoke about the provincial cities zone and tary representation for all its electors-and I ignored this very point. Because of the mean "all" the people of our far-flung State, recent remarkable grow,th of Townsville, the whether they be in Bulimba or Boulia, same argument of urban density of population Townsville or Thargomindah. as against the lesser density of rural districts applies to almost the same degree there as Various hon. members expressed their it does in Brisbane. To an ever-increasing views as to what they thought should be the degree, this will also apply in the other boundaries, sizes, names, and so on, of iheir provincial city areas. 3316 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH} Electoral Districts Bill

We must not forget that the ~reason why do something about electoral redistribution. Queensland has such a numbe;r of provincial The electorate of Cook, which is in the cities is that our Government has pursued Peninsula area, has an area of 49,850 square a policy of decentralisa;tion, with all its miles. That is quite an area in anyone's implkit benefits and advantages. Opposition book. There are 13,478 votern on the Cook members have evidence of that fact. electoral roll, or 59 per cent. above the Hon. members opposite are certainly being quota determined at the last distribution. hypocritical when they criticise the very Mr. Aikens: This Government put 4,000 principles they employed when they were in Aborigines on that roll. Government. They cannot deny that. I do not know that there is much more Mr. HOUSTON: I am not denying that. I should say on the illogical remarks of If the hon. member is patient, he will find othe·r members of the Opposition who spoke that .everything I say today is completely at the introductory stage. The only thing factual, and will stand up to any !inquiry I learnt from the speech of the hon. member or argument. for South Brisbane is that he is enjoying a greater income than that of rthe Chief Mr. Aikei1S: Jlhat will be a change. Ju&tice of Queensland. Mr. HOUSTON: The figures three years Summing up, I can only reiterate what I ago were subs.tantially the same as they said in my introduotory speech, namely, that are today. The Act now being repealed this Bill fulfils, in an honest and logical allowed for a partial or complete redistri­ fashion, the Government's undertaking to the bution at any time the Government saw people of Queensland thart they would be fit to •take such action. The Bill now before given an electoraL redistribution that would the House includes the same provision. The enable them to democratically elect, on the fairest basis possible, the next Prur.liament Premier now says, "We are honest }oes. We of Queensland. will bring down new legislation to give the people of Queensland an honest redistri­ Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the bution." Why did the Government not do Opposi,tion) (11.48 a.m.): Today we are not that three years ago? Why did it not say, only discussing this Bill, known as the as the Opposition :then satid, "Electorates redistribution Bill, but we are also discussing, are out of balance by thousands. Let us in my considered opinion, whether or not either bring down a new Bill or use the this Stl!lte is to live in a democracy. It terms of .t:he existing legislation."? is obvious that, at the present time, the electorates are so divided that there is not The Government did not do that. Tiw fair representation throughout the State and Premier of the day, Honourable J. C. A. in many instances this Bill will actually make Pizzey, said there was no need for a new the position worse. Bill. I had no argument with that statement I notice that, in his introduction, the if the Government was prepared to act under Prem[er was keen not to men1ion the ex•isting legislation, but I felt then, as I imbalance that now exists. For instance, feel now, that a new Bill was required. in the City of Brisbane, Aspley has an Although the present Premier, when giving enrolment of 22,473 and has an area of notice of this legislat;on, said :that an amend­ just under 14 square miles; in other words, ment to curu·ent legislation would be it is 97 per cent. above the quota originally intnoduced, when he sat down and began laid down. I ask the House to consider .to work it out he found that the simplest the following figures showing present enrol­ and best thing ·to do was to introduce an ments in some electorates, their percentage entirely new Bill. I have no fight with above original qUJota, and ·the electorate that procedure. However, at is rathe;r strnnge areas:- tha•t the suggestion that the Oppos1tion made

·----~------~------three years ago, which was then rejected, Percent­ Approximate is now being followed. Electorate Enrol­ age above area in ment original square miles The Premier has also claimed that country quota areas presenrt no great problems, because, as a result of the Government's policies, many Salisbury 21,783 91 43 people are moving to the western parts of Mount Gravatt 21,651 90 48 the State. Belmont 21,282 87 33 Murrumba 20,660 144 775 Mr. Hinze: He said they were going to Mount Coot-th; 20,495 80 94 South Coast .. 19,243 127 340 provincial cities. That is decentnrulisation. Logan .. 18,384 117 735 Mr. HOUSTON: Decentralisation on the I am using these figures to refute some east coast is not my idea of decentralisation. of the arguments .that the Premier attempted My idea of it is decentralisation throughout to advance on the question of whether or Queensland. not rthe previous distribution was just, and Government Members interjected. also on whether or not the Government has shown any inclination over latter years to Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3317

Mr. HOUSTON: Let us consider the time sat dumb and did not say anything. All electorate of Gregory. In the 1958 redistribu­ they had in mind was, "Please look after my tion, Gregory was given a quota of 7,539, seat. Please make sure my head is not which in fact was the enrolment. Today, the chopped off." number on the roll has decreased to 6,468. Where does that leave the Premier's argu­ Mr. Knox: That is what you are saying ment? today. If one turns to the electorate of Balonne, Mr. HOUSTON: If the hon. gentleman is one finds that in 1958 it had an enrolment of the opinion that he can beat me in of 7,029, which was well down on the quota Bulimba, he is quite welcome to contest the of 8,467 suggested at that time. It should next election against me. not be forgotton that the Government had The fact is that the present proposals for not been in office very long when that redistribution was made and that, in the electoral redistribution are far worse than light of what had taken place under former any that were put forward in days gone by. Labour Governments in this State, all the Mr. Hinzc: You don't believe in one vote, indications were that the population would one value. increase in areas such as Gregory and Balonne. Balonne was kept below quota Mr. HOUSTON: The hon. member is for that reason; it was thought that the happy to say that it was not one vote, one population would increase. However, the value in 1949. enrolment has now decreased to 6,890. Mr. Hinze: You don't believe in it now. One can go through other western electorates and find that their enrolments Mr. HOUSTON: The position has become have decreased. For example, in Condamine worse since 1949. The Liberal Party has the original enrolment was 7,336; today the gone into every election since the 1960 enrolment is down to 7,132. And so it goes election-the hon. member does not have to on. One finds a similar story in many other ask me this; he can ask any member of the electorates. Therefore, I do not believe that Liberal Party-knowing that it was well the facts bear out the Premier's suggestion that the Government has introduced the Bill behind scratch in becoming the dominant out of the goodness of its heart and in the party in the coalition. I cannot understand interests of Queensland. why Liberal members of this Parliament have agreed to the Bill, because there is no After the Torres Strait Islanders were doubt that its provisions will make the given the right to vote-as you know, Mr. Liberal Party really the "little boy" in the Speaker, the Opposition supported that Government. In fact, the Opposition's attack extension of the franchise-why could there on the Bill probably is greatly in the interests not have been a partial redistribution to of Liberal members of this Parliament and of allow a more equitable distribution of electors? The Government did not do that. the Liberal Party. It was in its hands to do it, but it did not. The Premier said that this is an important Bill. I do not know how the electoral Let me turn now to other things that the redistribution of the State could be anything Premier said in his second-reading speech, other than important. Of course it is an which also was a very short speech, if I may important Bill! It is so important that the say so. Again in his second-reading SJ?ee~h Government has to be prepared to stand or he relied on what the Labour Party drd m fall on it. Let there be no doubt about that! 1949. It was quite laughable to hear the Premier saying-he did not say it only once; The Premier also said the Bill was brought he kept repeating it-"There is no need in only after mature and considered thought. to worry. This Bill is exactly similar to the I am not doubting the age of those respon­ Bill introduced in 1949." Of course, I dis­ sible for the negotiations; I am not doubting agree with him completely on that point. that thought was given to it. What the The only similarity between the two Bills is Premier did not refer to was the wrangling that each was introduced by the Premier that went on; the threatening that went on; of the day. the endless negotiations that started to move Mr. Hinze: And the 1949 Bill was a along smoothly and then broke down. gerrymander. Mr. Melloy: And blackmail. Mr. HOUSTON: The zones were different. If it was a gerrymander-- Mr. HOUSTON: We can come to that later on, too. There is a lot of evidence to Mr. Hinze: By experts. show that the interjection is based on fact. Mr. HOUSTON: If it was a gerrymander, Mr. Hinze: Would you take direction from l was not here to know it, and the hon. the Q.C.E.? member for South Coast was not here, either. I have checked through the Press Mr. HOUSTON: The only thing worrying statements and the reports of debates in this the hon. member is that he cannot prove it. House and found that the hon. member's There has never been an occasion when he colleagues who were in the Chamber at that could. That is what worries him. 3318 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Let us look further at this "mature and Mr. HOUSTON: Of course it is a private considered thought". The Premier was very member's Bill-nothing more or less than forceful in saying. "It was in the Press and that. Of course, as Premier, the hon. gentle­ it wasn't denied; therefore it is right." I have man is entitled to put forward his point of not seen any denial of what appeared in the view. When circumstances are such that last issue of "The Sunday Mail". I am sudden decisions have to be made, no-one grateful to the Minister for Justice for letting would deny that the Premier is responsible for making the decisions. But this is not a the people of Queensland know how mature Bill for the Premier's benefit alone. It is a and considered were the negotiations that Bill to distribute throughout the State a took place last Wednesday. The newspaper number of districts so that in combination report states- the persons elected from the various districts "The Justice Minister (Dr. Delamothe) will sit in Parliament to govern this State said that last Wednesday he was convinced for a period of approximately three years. It that the Government coalition had 'broken affects the Liberal Party, the Country Party, apart'. the Australian Labour Party, Independents Dr Delamothe said the Premier was 'hot' and any others who name themselves as a and 'stubborn' at meetings last week." party. All of us are here only because we have the confidence of the section of the After all, the Minister for Justice should community that we represent. In other know. words, a member of Parliament is a spokes­ man for the people. We are here representing Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: Do you think that is not trees or cattle but the thoughts and correct? desires of human beings. Mr. HOUSTON: The Premier has not I agree that over the years it has become denied it. He had an opportunity to deny it customary for electors to approach members in moving the second reading today. He of Parliament for assistance. But surely the knew that it was public knowledge and that ideal situation would be for members of Dr. Delamothe had not denied it. I do not Parliament to spend their time studying the know whether the latter's appointment to Jaws of the land, looking and listening to find London still stands. That is something he out exactly what is in the best interests of the may have to argue out with the Premier after people, and then framing legislation and this episode. It is obvious that the Minister debating it accordingly. As I say, over the for Justice said that, that he said it at a years it has been customary for people to go meeting, and that the Press reported it to members of Parliament for rectification of accordingly. problems they might encounter, but I believe that the more we find that electors have to go Mr. Low: It's a lot of bunkum. to members of Parliament to obtain satisfac­ Mr. HOUSTON: Does the hon. member tion, the more it shows that we are being deny it? governed by bad Jaws and regulations. There­ fore, if a member claims that in a particular Mr. Low: Yes. electorate he is being bombarded by his electors and cannot possibly cope with the Mr. HOUSTON: Was he there? numbers of people who constantly wish to Mr. Low: Yes, I was. see him about problems, then the basic cause of all this must lie in our legislation and Mr. HOUSTON: Now we are getting some­ regulations. where. A Country Party member was at a Mr. Baldwin: Is that why they wiped Liberal Party meeting. Did the hon. member Logan out? have a wig on? Did he have a dress on? How was he dressed? What ticket did he Mr. HOUSTON: That is why they are use? Perhaps he was a fly on the wall. trying to wipe it out, but they will not succeed. Mr. LOW: I rise to a point of order. This was at a joint party meeting. I cannot accept as an argument that the prime duty of a member of Parliament is to Opposition Members: No. cater for the whims and wishes of his elec­ torate. Once he is elected to represent the Mr. HOUSTON: I am afraid I cannot people, surely his prime responsibility is to accept the statement of the hon. member, help govern, by Jaws and regulations, this because the Treasurer is indicating that he is fair State of ours. Naturally, as members of wrong. I suggest that he negotiate with the Parliament we must become more conversant Treasurer. with the Jaws of the land and the regulations The Minister for Health was accused of made thereunder than does the ordinary citi­ prejudice. Some Liberal Party officers who zen, but I should hate to think .that the day analysed the redistribution Bill said that some will come when justice is meted out only Cabinet Ministers had not seen it until it was because a citizen has the ear of a politician introduced into Parliament on Thursday last. who can pull strings. That is what the Gov­ That is quite true. ernment is trying to suggest-that the prime duty of a politician should be to feather his Mr. Hanlon: It is virtually a private own nest, either by electoral return or other member's Bill. means, because the people depend on him. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3319

It has been said on many occasions that Mr. HOUSTON: I beg your pardon? Governments sometimes like bad laws so that Mr. Hinze: You are now having "two bob" members of Parliament can come into con­ each way. tact with many people. In fact, on my nor­ thern tour during the last State election Mr. HOUSTON: No, I am not. I can campaign, when I suggested that the citizens speak for an hour and a half, so don't rush of one place might vote for our candidate me. At the appropriate time, I will tell the against the sitting Government member one hon. member exactly where we stand. of the remarks I heard was, "No, w~ are An Opposition Member: Not "at this point quite happy with our member. He tells us of time". what a rotten job the Government is doing and :how he is fighting to get a better deal Mr. HOUSTON: No, not "at this point of for us." That Government member might be time"; I will speak for a few moments before fighting to get a better deal, but he is appar­ I tell the hon. member where we stand. ·ently not doing much good. I shall deal now with the Government's Let us move on with what the Premier attitude, in which it says, "We need to have said. He went on to say that he puts the a lot of country members because the city people first. I am reminded that in going fellows are likely to put it over them." This back through history looking for authorities, is the greatest lot of nonsense I have ever heard. Many people in country areas were l came across quite a few statements made by quite satisfied that the Labour Party offered a fellow in Europe named Hitler who also them first-class representation both as claimed that he was governing in the interests individual members and as a Government. of the people. Prior to the 1939-45 war he The hon. members for Warrego, Barcoo, made many sta.tements to his people-in fact, Cook, Tablelands, Isis, Burke-I could go on to the world at large-to this effect: "What I and on naming them-are returned, election and the Nazi Party are doing is not for after election, with substantial increases in Adolph Hitler; it is for you, the people of their majorities. When Labour was in office Germany. We are doing it all for your bene­ no outcry could be heard from the country fit, not for ours." areas against Labour's legislation. It is utter nonsense for the Government to claim that Today we see the parallel. We see the the country people would not be given a Premier-not the Fuehrer-saying the same fair go unless they had a greater number of thing. The Fuehrer was interested in the representatives in this Parliament. Nazi Party, and the Premier is interested in the Country Party. In exactly the same way Of more importance is the matters that as the Nazi Party finally let down the people are discussed and debated in this Chamber of Germany and brought them to war and -the laws of the land that we, as members suffering, today we find many people in the of Parliament, decide upon. First, let me country areas of this State regretting that they deal with the health laws. I am certain that have a Country Party Government. The the Minister for Health, as a Liberal, does Government is most unsympathetic towards not think to himself, "Now, what will I do the country people. Certainly it says to for the city people alone or the provincial them, "We will give you a few dollars." city people alone?" He introduces a Bill in However, it is closing the gate after the the interests of Queensland as a whole, and horse has bolted. I charge the Government it is debated on that basis. Whatever with having let down the country areas of Queensland's health laws are, they are this State. designed to affect all the people of this State equally. It is true, of course, that local ~s to th~ matter of representation, I authorities have their own by-laws, which believe that m a democracy the ideal repre­ may affect one resident slightly differently sentation in Parliament is achieved by an from another. However, that is only a local equal number of people returning each issue; the State health laws affect all people member. I will admit that in this State long equally. distances create certain difficulties in com­ munications. However, those difficulties are The same remarks apply to education. gradually being overcome. It is true that the Are the children who live in Brisbane any last redistribution resulted at times in a different from those who live in Townsviiie, member who represented either a western Rockhampton, Clermont, Emerald, Burke­ electorate or a northern electorate, such as town, Charleville or Cloncurry? In any part Cook, experiencing difficulty in getting from of the State we like to name, are not all one part of his electorate to another. In children the same? Are they not all young some instances there was no daily direct Queenslanders and entitled to the best edu­ means of transport between certain towns, cation possible? Surely no-one would suggest and in other instances there was no air link that simply because the Minister for Educa­ at all between the towns. At the same time, tion is a member of the Country Party he in many instances the roads in those elector­ is treating the people who live in the city ates were in a shocking state. differently from country people, or that he would treat the people of this State any Mr. Hinze: What loading are you prepared differently if he happened to be a member to grant in this direction? of the Liberal Party. 3320 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH} Electoral Districts Bill

Of course, certain men have changed their The Justice Department, through the laws politics overnight. At one stage the hon. of our land and the operations of the Police member for Redcliffe did not know whether Force, affects every citizen equally. It has he was a Liberal, an Independent, or a been said that a policeman stationed in a Country Party adherent. I think he was all country town has a massive area to cover­ three in three weeks. and he has. But because a policeman in the country or the metropolitan area is over­ Mr. Hanlon: He was a Har!ey. worked, that is surely no argument for greater area of representation. Surely the Mr. HOUSTON: That is right. problem is not enough policemen, and once I cannot accept any argument that respons­ there are enough, the problem is solved. ible men and women elected to this House The Premier, I think in his introductory will be biased. It is true that our con­ speech, started to claim credit for there being tributions to debates in this House are made no increase in the number of seats. If he according to our background, our party wanted 78 seats all along, he was certainly policy, and the desires of our electors. But fooling his colleagues on the Country Party a Minister of the Crown is in a different executive, because those to whom I spoke category in that he has the advice of all firmly believed that the Premier wanted of his departmental public servants. Surely 82. If the Press reports can be believed the important thing is that public servants -and the Premier can deny this if he wants as such look at the whole State when a to-he was holding out for 79 at one stage. matter is being determined. It is in this To come into the House and argue now field that we have to ensure that there are for 78 is to speak with tongue in cheek. no privileges and no animosity one way or He said that Queensland has the best the other. Apart from isolated incidents, representation per head of population. To when a member has had a particular public prove this he added together the representa­ servant in mind, I have heard no-one in tives in both Houses of other Parliaments. this House attack the Public Service gener­ ally for being prejudiced one way or the Mr. Low: Who do you think this Bill other. will benefit? It could be argued that our industrial laws Mr. HOUSTON: It is designed to keep affect the people living in Brisbane and pro­ the hon. member for Cooroora in Parlia­ vincial cities more than those who live in ment, anyway. At the moment I am not country areas because the great majority of concerned which party wins. My concern the work-force affected by industrial laws is for Queensland and an honest redistribu­ and tribunals live in the areas with the larger tion. Every public and private statement 1 populations. We have a Liberal Minister have made is in line with that principle. for Labour and Tourism, but no-one could Later on, I shall outline where we stand tell me that he would be biased. If he is, relative to the tribunal. we should know about it. In all these The Premier said that we have more administrative matters, irrespective of the members per head of population than the party to which a Minister belongs, to a other States. As I said, he added the large extent he is surely governed by his representatives in tche Upper and Lower party policy and the advice of his Public Houses, but he did not say-and I am sure Service administrators. that he knows-that membership of the Irrespective of where a man lives or works Upper House in New South Wales is not he is concerned about the cost of living, considered to be a ful!,time occupation, which can be determined by Government whereas that of the Lower House is. Legis­ policy. Members representing country or lation is initiated not in the Upper House, western areas-or, for that matter, any area but the Lower House. Members of both removed from Brisbane-know full well thal houses are not paid equivalent amounts. cost of transport is an ever-present problem. Members of the Upper House represent However, cost of transport is usually deter­ vastly different areas from .those represented mined by Government policy. The cost of by members of the Lower House. In fact, road haulage depends on the charges imposed in New South Wales, a constituent would by the Government on road hauliers. The not consider seeing a member of the Upper cost of various fuels used, the cost of House about a problem; he would go to repairs and parts, and the state of our roads his representative in the Lower House. are all matters that affect the cost of living. A redistribution was made recently in But in every case, wherever we live, we are New South Wales. I intend to cite three virtually equally affected. small electorates each of about 2 square miles in area, and their enrolments. They are- I therefore believe that although there is some argument for an imbalance in elec­ torates, it should not be to the extent indi­ Electorate Enrolment cated in the Bill. A present imbalance of 3 : 1 may become 4 : 1 or 5 : 1 in a few Bligh 28,778 years, depending on population growth. Coogee 29,609 No-one can justify such a massive imbalance Kirribilli 27,075 immediately after a redistribution. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3321

Yet in Queensland we are still talking in an analysis of their speeches at the intro­ terms of 12,000 to 14,000, with a couple ductory stage, it is very clear that their con­ of exceptions. And I have not heard any cept of what would be in the Bill differed complaint that the people of Sydney are entirely from what they finally found. One not getting fair representation. member even said to me that he did not think that he could have been at the meeting that The figures for the smallest country areas discussed the Bill because what he found in are- it in no way resembled what was discussed at the meeting. Electorate Area Enrolment Mr. Bjelke-Petersen interjected. Square Miles Mr. HOUSTON: He may have been, but Parliamentary rules will not allow me to use Maitland 351 21,625 the phrase that passed rapidly through my Cessnock 397 21,338 mind. Lismore 530 19,943 Let us look at the Bill to see whether or not the Government does in fact show in They are still far in excess of the numbers the legislation the concern that it claims to considered in Queensland. have. After all, the important thing is not what the Government says but what it puts The figures for the largest electorates in into practice. I claim that the Bill has been New South Wales are- brought in under the direction of the Premier, certainly with his blessing, and I go so far as to say that his thoughts as contained in the Electorate I Area Enrolment Bill are for the sole purpose of assisting -----II-S_q_u_a_r_e_M_il_es______the Country Party. He is not really con­ 1 cerned about effecting a distribution that is equitable to the various groups of people in Barwon 1 17,401 19,347 the community. Temora I 19,102 17,835 Broken Hill 59,979 19,904 It is suggested that there will be three Castlereagh I 64,472 19,328 zones, the first of which is the metropolitan zone. I said at the introductory stage that I was concerned more about what had not According to my figures, only Tablelands, been said than what had been said about it. of 76,560 square miles, Warrego, of 73,820 I felt that much had not been said that square miles, and Gregory, of 159,000 square should have been said at that stage. It was miles, are larger than the New South Wales clearly indicated in all quarters that there electorates of Broken :Hill and Castlereagh, would be 30 seats in Brisbane. It was pointed which contain respectively over 19,000 and out that two additional seats were to be nearly 20,000 electors. If it is a good created in the metropolitan area, but that is argument that, because of communication not the truth. Those who know the metro­ problems, large electorates should have only politan boundaries realise full well that there 4,000 or 5,000 electors, one might well is a considerable difference between the wonder how some New South Wales members number of people within the boundaries of carry out their duties. As one of my Brisbane, and the number within the boun­ colleagues has suggested, surely in this day daries of Brisbane plus the other sections that and age modern communications are all that are included in the metropolitan zone. are required to overcome this problem. According to the latest figures that I have Let us now look at some of the other -they are as at 31 December 1970- things that have been said about the Bill 387,897 people were on the roll in the metro­ and its introduction. The Premier went to politan area. At the last local government some trouble to point out that the Bill was election-unfortunately I could not get the named, "A Bill to make provision for the figures up till 31 December 1970; I had to go better distribution of electoral districts." If back to May 1970-9,761 electors were on he was really "fair dinkum" with the people the roll for divisions 1 and 2 of the Shire of of Queensland ann this House, he would add Pine Rivers, 7,792 in the Shire of Redland, the words, "in the sole interests of the and 4. 718 in division 4 of the Shire of Albert. Country Party." l think that those words That means that, in all, more than 21,000 would provide for a more truthful designa­ electors are being added to .the number in tion of the Bill. the existing metropolitan area of Brisbane. Surely an additional 21,000 or 22,000 electors Under the Bill, he divides the State into warrants two additional seats. Of course, all three zones. I say "he" because it is obvious that is being added to the existing 28 seats in that even some Ministers did not know what the metropolitan area is two seats to com­ was in the Bill before it was presented, and pensate for the areas that formerly were it is more than obvious that the caucuses of outside the Brisbane metropolitan area, which the Government parties did not know what have now been included in the so-called it contained. Perhaps during this stage some metropolitan zone. Government members may tell the House exactly what they were told about it. From Mr. Low: What is wrong with that? 3322 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Mr. HOUSTON: I am not arguing the know what he meant by the "golden circle". rights and wrongs of i.t. I am arguing the I think he must have spent too much time out question of the credibility of Government in the sun on the Gold Coast. To talk of spokesmen who tell the people of Brisbane golden circles is just a lot of nonsense. In that the Brisbane metropolitan area will no way could it be suggested that Bundaberg receive two additional seats when in fact it was anything but a town on the east coast, will not. It is political deceit at its worst. the centre of an area that is growing in Those who prepared the Bill would have population and is particularly well represented had before them figures identical with those at the present time. It has 15,881 electors. that I have now put before the House. I Let us look at Cairns in the Far North. should be astounded if they attempted to At the last redistribution it had 13,029 bring a Bill before Parliament without even electors; today it has 15,212, 600 fewer than having a look at the figures. I agree that the in the Bundaberg electorate. When I queried figures I have put before the House may not a member of the Country Party executive be the latest, but they certainly would not about this he said, "That's all right. They're be any higher than the latest because the further north so they are entitled to have Premier said that the areas which have 600 fewer." I accepted that as an argu­ increased most in population are the fringe ment. areas round the cities. Undoubtedly divisions 1 and 2 of the Shire of Pine Rivers, the Shire Now let us come down to Mackay, another of Redland and division 4 of the Shire of well represented electorate. At the time of Albert are fringe areas round Brisbane. So the 1958 redistribution Mackay had an when I say that those areas had about 21,000 enrolment of 9,504; today it is up to 10,442. eleotors on the roll in May last year, I am The figures do not indicate quite the growth sure that no-one will argue with me when I of the other two cities I have mentioned, claim that 23,000 are now on the roll. but still it is steady growth. But the Gov­ The first point that I wish to stress is the ernment has decided-it is the Government's question of the crediblity of the Premier and Bill-that the Mackay electorate will remain other Country Party and Government spokes­ at 10,442. How do hon. members opposite men who state that the Brisbane metropolitan argue equality when they have 15,000 at area will have two additional seats. It will Cairns, 10,500 at Mackay and then 15,881 not have two additional seats. The metro­ at Bundaberg? politan zone a.s designated in the Bill, yes; I have referred to those three seats because but not the Bnsbane metropolitan area. they are represented by my own members. Mr. Davis: They also want to make I do not want it to be said that I am making Murrumba safe. my point on a political basis. The electors in those three areas will all say that they Mr. HOUSTON: I shall deal with that have good representation. Why is there later. The only people to whom the Govern­ this great difference with one provincial city ment has not given any thought are the electorate having half as many electors again electors of Queensland and their families. as another? What is the Premier's justi­ It has not taken them into account. fication for that? These cities are on the Mr. Low: They have never had better eastern coast. Is he going to talk about representation. communications being different? Certainly there might be a half-hour's difference in Mr. HOUSTON: That is only the hon. plane travel. To get to one place or another member's opinion; it is not what I hear. the normal method of transp<;>rt is by air- craft. When the representatives of those Let us tak~ the town of Bundaberg, Mr. areas come down to Parliament House, as ·-·-\%1\m• Speaker. It IS true that the J22£~!!,on of c~~"-~,r~~~~~QW.J;jQ~--~ ~~~ "!r!Jl!rrt~~rt"""~oiir1ne"'"tlffie···rfiaTT:he'Y~are~a::wa:;,r·r;.om their the redistnbutwn m 19~8, It was .considered electorates is not greatly different. Why then that. 1~,147. was a fair population for a is there this great difference in quotas? provmcial City. That was regarded as being ~igher than it should .be, but was accepted Let us now corn~ to tpe Maryb?rough m order to keep a fairly equitable but not electorate-a very mterestmg one, mdeed. unduly excessive quota. According to the I should be very pleased to hear how the figures given to me by the State Electoral Premier justifies this one. At the 1958 Office, the number of eleotors on the roll redistribution there were 11,520 electors in for Bundaberg now is 15,881. Of course the Maryborough. Over the years the figures hon. member for Bundaberg knows his 'own have remained more or less stable, with an electorate better than anyone else in the increase of only about 400 to 11,965. As Chamber. The City of Bundaberg, which is we know, Walkers and other firms that on the coast, could be considered to be have received a particularly raw deal from slightly south of the Central Queensland area this Government are in the Maryborough but certainly not in the south-eastern corner: area. I think that those firms have done Through its secretary the Country Party very well to maintain their position. With referred the other day to the "golden circle", near enough to 12,000 electors, surely the and suggested that all the electors would be area is entitled to be still regarded as a in the golden circle if the Labour Party and separate electorate-that is the provincial the Liberal Party had their way. I do not city idea that the Government wants-but Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3323

no, not according to the Premier. Hon. Mr. HOUSTON: Well, the Liberal Party members opposite who have seen the Bill and the D.L.P. are one and the same as we and analysed it-if any of them have analysed will see when voting takes place on this Bill. it-will realise that he is going to add onto Anyway, the point was that _even with its that the Shire of Burrum. The Shire of combined effort to unseat J1m Blake the Burrum, in May last year, had 5,740 elec­ Government again failed miserably. tors. In other words, if this Bill goes Mr. Davies: His increased vote represented through, the total enrolment for the pro­ vincial City of Maryborough will be 17,705. a 17 per cent. increase on the ex-Premier's How can the Premier or anyone else possibly vote. justify the difference between the City of Mr. R. E. MQOI'e: Are you making the Mackay with 10,500 electors and the City speech, Horrie? of Maryborough with 17,705? Mr. HOUSTON: I always look to good Mr. Blake: I know why. and capable people for assistance, so the hon. member should not worry about it. Jim Mr. HOUSTON: Let us have a look at the Blake's vote increased further. When we look reason. I do not think I would be stretching at his vote and analyse it, we find that it came the imagination too far if I took hon. mem­ from two main areas-certainly the area bers' memories back to a time, less than where his farm is and where he worked and three years ago, when the Premier of this assisted people and the coal fields, as well as State, Jack Pizzey, unfortunately passed away. the Hervey Bay area with its retired people That meant that a by-election had to be held who knew full well what a rotten deal they in the seat of Isis and the Government were getting. thought, "Well, Jack Pizzey won by thous­ ands; there is no need to worry." It did not Mr. Abern: A bit like my area. even bother to bring on the by-election for quite a considerable time. It fussed around Mr. HOUSTON: I am not surprised that and left the area unrepresented. When we the hon. member's area is getting a bad deal. challenged the Government in this House on Mr. Ahern: I did not say it was getting a whether or not the area was being represented bad deal. and, if so, by whom, we were told that there was no need to worry, that it was being Mr. HOUSTON: Anyway, the point is that looked after. We knew differently. in Isis at present the enrolment is 9,927. The Government is going to take at least 5,740 We had a young man in that area named from that electorate. Why take that num?er Jim Blake who, as an active member of the from Isis and add it to Maryborough, wh1ch Labour movement, was prepared to stand for is already up to other quotas? It alr~ady has the seat. The people of Isis knew full well relativity with other areas and certamly has that they had been let down and, in spite of not the lowest quota of any provincial cit_Y. being formerly represented by the late Why do this if it is not an attempt to kill Premier they were more than happy to swing Jim B!ake? If this Bill is passed, God help their allegiance away from the Government. the man Jim Blake tackles! Jim will ~at Mr. B. Wood: Because of it. him right into the ground. Whoever J1m Blake decides to take on will be one Country Mr. HOUSTON: That is right. And they Party member the Government will lose. returned Jim Blake to this House. What about Redcliffe? I notice that the Mr. Davies: On a 15 per cent. swing. hon. member for Redcliffe is not in the Chamber. The Government is making Red­ Mr. HOUSTON: A 15 per cent. swing. I cliffe a separate electorate, with 15,845 thank the hon. member. What an awful constituents. Where is this equality that shock to the new Premier to find that in his the Premier talks about? I cannot get away first by-election, for the seat held by his from his repeated claim that we must have predecessor, there was such a strong swing equality and we must look after our western against the Government. and northern people. He is not concerned Mr. Davis: A lot of people blamed the for the North. He might be concerned Premier. for those people who live within a couple of hundred miles of the coast, but he Mr. HOUSTON: That is true. The Premier certainly has no concern for those. who l!ve got the blame and I do not think he ever 1 000 miles to the north. He IS makmg forgot it. I do not think others have forgotten Redcliffe an electorate with 15,845 con­ it either-certainly not those advising him. stituents and, at the same time, making When the general election came, both the Cairns an electorate with 15,212 electors. Country Party and Liberal Party said, "Oh, They are virtually the same, but they are that was only a fluke." lower than Bundaberg, and thousands lower Mr. Davis: The D.L.P. than Maryborough. Where is this equality? Mr. HOUSTON: The D.L.P., was it? I am Mr. Low: Redcliffe is growing. sorry. Mr. HOUSTON: That is right; it cer­ Mr. Davis: It was the Country Party and tainly is growing. The Government claims the D.L.P. that it wants to ensure electoral justice. What 3324 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill does the hon. member think the population and Rockhampton South, and, as well, one of Redcliffe will be in five years' time? It for Port Curtis, which consists of the town will be as high as 20,000. of Gladstone and the shires of Calliope and Mt. Morgan and part of the Fitzroy Shire. Mr. Low: You are comparing it with All that the Government is doing is adding Maryborough and Mackay. to Rockhampton the old electorate of Port Mr. HOUSTON: If Redcliffe's quota of Curtis and saying, "We now have three seats 15,845 is a just one, what will it be in a in the Rockhampton area". few years' time when the number of electors In Toowoomba, there are a1t present two has increased to 20,000? The Bill pro­ electorates. The Government has decided vides for a movement up or down of only that there should be three. Lockyer has 20 per cent., so Redcliffe is already very 8, 733 voters, which makes it difficult to close to reaching the limit. Where is the justify retaining it as a separate electorate. justification for that? At one stage, before the racing legislation Let me deal now with the electorate of was introduced, the dogs were barking that Townsville North, which is represented by the Treasurer intended to contest ~ Brisbane the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. No-one electorate. Apparently he thought twice can quibble at the representation he gives his about it and considered it might be better eiectors. For years, at election after elec­ to adopt another approach. Of course, it tion, the Government has tried to defeat him, is his privilege to stand for any seat he but in vain. So what does it do? It makes wishes to. In this instance, all that has the electorate bigger, and, as well, adds an been done is to take the two T10owoomba outside shire to it. However, even that electorates •and add •them to the electorate does not worry the Opposition. I am quite of Lockyer. The shires which, basically, confident-as is my deputy leader-that he make up the electorate of Lockyer have is assured of capturing whichever seat he been included. and the Government has contests. said, "We will now have three seats in Mr. Armstrong: I wouldn't bet on it. Toowoomba." That is another misrepresen­ tation of faot disclosed by an examination Mr. HOUSTON: I will bet that the hon. of the Bill. member for Mulgrave is not game to oppose Mr. P. WOQd: It was the Premier's him. I am sure my deputy leader does misrepresentation, too. not mind my issuing that challenge to the hon. member. Mr. HOUSTON: The Premier has been Mr. Tucker: If he sticks around for a the main spokesman. He has had two few hours be will hear me have my own opportunities to speak. say, too. No matter what is reported in the Press, because of some misunderstanding between Mr. HOUSTON: He will. Let me turn the person making a statement and the now to the provincial cities that are to be pressman, at times an incorrect version can split into three electorates. I will deal be published or a wrong inference drawn. first with Townsville. I object to the informa­ I do not suppose that any man in public tion that the Government has been giving life has always been completely satisfied out to the public. All along the line it with Press reports of statements made by has deceived the public. As well, Cabinet him; that is normal and acceptable. But has been deceiving the Government back­ what a Minister says in this House-particu­ benchers, from whom I have no hesitation larly the Premier of the State-when intro­ in saying that I expected a revolt. If they ducing a Bill must be accepted as what he have any backbone at all they will revolt. intended to say. I would be surprised to learn that any man who enters Parliament does not possess at The Ipswich area is again to contain two seats, but the quota for the Ipswich elec­ least some fighting spirit. Any man or torates will be as high as 16,000. No-one woman who is elected to Parliament shows can suggest to me that Ipswich will not some qualities above the average. At first, grow. The provincial city of Ipswich will members have their party machinery to go have 16,000-odd electors, and the provincial through before they face the electors, and city of Redclifi'e many less than that. they have to show the party machine that they have something. The party machine I have left till last the electorate in which is not made up of fools, although some the greatest confidence trick I have ever Government members apparently think it is. witnessed has been perpetrated, that is, the Those who enter this Chamber have minds electorate of Burke. As we know, it covers of their own-or, at least, they did before quite a large area of the State. It is they entered Parliament; I do not know unfortunate that maps cannot be included whether some of them have had it beaten in "Hansard". out of them since. Mr. Low: It is a pity it cannot show Let me deal now with Rockhampton. The the old Nash electorate. public were told that the three seats in the provincial cities would be three within the Mr. HOUSTON: I cannot help it if towns. At the present time there are the hon. member wants to live so far in separate electorates for Rockhampton North the past. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3325

It will be seen from the map I have here Why should a person in Burke be one of that the proposed electorate of Burke has 10,569 electors whereas a person in Boulia a remarkable shape. The map is available could be one of 5,000, 6,000 or 7,000 for the perusal of any hon. member who electors? If the distribution is as honest and wishes to see it. Unfortunately, the only equitable as is humanly possible, allowing local authority boundary map of the area for certain distances as the Premier has that I could obtain is smaller, and thus argued, why has the electorate of Burke been prevents me from superimposing it. left as it was with simply a change of name? Some time ago we passed legislation Mr. Jensen: It is a gerrymander. creating the City of Mt. Isa. It did not relate only to a little dot on the map Mr. HOUSTON: The only reason, as my representing the city of Mt. Isa, but to colleague says, is gerrymandering. thousands of square miles. I think it became Mr. Sullivan: And you know all about one of the biggest cities in area in the that. world, if not the biggest. The local authority area of the city of Mt. Isa is shown on Mr. HOUSTON: I know nothing about it. the map, but we should not forget that, I was not in Parliament at any stage prior according to the Bill, the electorate of Mt. to 1957. Isa, about which I am talking, is a provincial city. We have the city of Mt. Isa and then 1\-fr. Sullivan: In other words, the Labour the shire of Burke, right up to the north. Party knew everything about gerrymandering. The shire of Cloncurry is down to the south. Mr. HOUSTON: I accept responsibility only When this map is superimposed on the for what has happened while I have been a electoral map of 1958, it is found that they member of Parliament. If the hon. member are so close to identical, it does not matter. wants to go back into history, I could speak The difference is that the present enrolment of the time of A. E. Moore. "Hansard" and for the seat of Burke is 10,569. Therefore, many other books in the Parliamentary under this legislation. the whole of the large Library contain examples of the shocking north-western electorate of Burke, with an speeches by the Minister's predecessors who area of 51,860 square miles and 10,569 wanted to throw people into goal without a electors, will be only a little old provincial fair trial. The Minister should not go back city. too far into history. If he wants to go back The Premier said, "We are going to set some years, there will be no difficulty at all up these provincial cities. Mt. Isa has grown in doing that. to the stage that we can designate it as a So far as the provisions for provincial provincial city." The hon. member for cities are concerned, I believe that they are Burke was quite happy with his town being a complete farce. I believe that the Gov­ recognised in this way. But all that is being ernment has deliberately used this method done is to change the name of the electoral to isolate areas in which they believe there district from Burke to Mt. Tsa, and to exclude are Labour voters. That information can it from the Western Division seats. easily be obtained by referring to the polling The Bill contains the following words:- figures from the last election. "ln the case of any electoral district [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.} . . . west of the Great Dividing Range where . . . the Commissioners are of Mr. HOUSTON: Before the luncheon opinion that special circumstances apply recess I was demonstrating, by means of by reason of which special treatment known enrolments in the various electorates, should be accorded to that electoral dis­ that the Bill certainly shows no balance in trict, the quota may be departed from to the case of provincial city electorates. A a greater extent than one-fifth less." further analysis shows that quotas in the Burketown, Mt. Isa and all the other towns metropolitan zone will be well in excess in that area are west of the Great Dividing of 13,000, compared with just on 10,000 Range. They are in the electorate of Burke, in country electorates. They would be the which is represented by Labour. If that base quotas on known figures, and they could electorate were split into two, the two new vary by approximately 100 or so when final electorates would be represented by Labour. figures for shires are known. And the Government does not want that. The main point that I set out to refute So what is done? The area is called a pro­ was the 'Premier's statement .that the Bill vincial city, and the electors in the adjoining was the result of mature and considered electorate of Gregory, and any other seats thought. I think all reasonable people would which will be created, irrespective of their agree with me that the Bill was introduced names-- as a result of panic. As you know, Mr. Mr. Rae: That would be no use. You are Speaker, the Opposition wrote to you seeking forgetting what the Bill provides. to have the matter of electoral redistribution debated in ·Parliament. You, from your Mr. HOUSTON: According to the Bill, the knowledge, said that a Bill would be intro­ number of voters could be 4,000 or fewer, duced. However, as time went by, it became because no minimum is specified. The area obvious that, in order to support your adjacent to Burke could have 6,000 or 7,000 statement, which, in turn, was based on a electors, while Burke would have 10,569. statement by the Premier, a Bill would 107 3326 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill have to be brought down very quickly. Mr. Low: Where does this appear in the Jt was not till the last moment, after many Bill? Where does the Bill refer to signing heated words in the stormy meeting to a pledge? which the Minister for Justice referred in Mr. HOUSTON: The Premier said, or the the Press, that it was finally agreed that hon. members' colleagues have said publicly a Bill would be brought down. that the Premier said, "Unless these men In the case of provincial cities, all that sign the pledge, there will be no Bill." There­ the Bill means is that present electorates fore, that is an important point for adjacent to Toowoomba, Rockhampton and consideration. the Gold Coast are to be added to those Let me turn now to the commiSSIOn. The within those cities. I say that the Bill Opposition believes that the chairman of the was brought down in haste and panic so commission should be a judge of the Supreme that the Premier could meet the deadline Court, and no less a person. There is talk that he himself had set. of integrity. Every man is honest until he goes wrong. Every person who is in Boggo Let us now look at some of the things Road gaol today was innocent until he was demanded by the "Premier even before he found guilty; every person there was known brought the Bill down. One of these was as an honest man until his crime was discov­ the signing of a pledge by Liberal members. ered. I do not know whom the Premier has I do not think that anywhere else in the in mind as members of the commission, but world would one find a political leader let there not be any doubt that, if the Gov­ demanding that members of his Government ernment wants public confidence in the com­ sign a pledge not to oppose one another at mission, no less a person that a judge of the an election. How certain is the Premier Supreme Court should be chairman of the that following redistribution there will not commission. There will not then be any be, in either country or metropolitan areas, doubt in the minds of members of the public. two adjacent seats currently held by a Liberal member and a Country Party mem­ I am not saying who the other members ber, two Country Party members, or two of the commission should be. I know those Liberal members, one seat of which is to be whom I would consider appointing-persons abolished and both members wanting to in the State Electoral Office, the Surveyor­ win the one remaining seat? General, and other persons of that type. Mr. Sullivan interjected. Mr. Shenington: Max Hodges and Peter Delamothe-they will both be out of work. Mr. HOUSTON: The Minister can make his own speech later. He had his say in Mr. HOUSTON: They will be after the Cabinet, I am sure. next election, whatever the boundaries. It is necessary to ensure that in the minds of It is obvious that in such a situation members of the public the commission is there could be two sitting members opposing completely above board, and there is a great each other. How ridiculous, then, was the deal of disquiet in their minds at present. Premier's demand! What it virtually means is this: if, by some chance, the commission In the "Gold Coast Bulletin" of 26 March decides that one of two such adjoining -the hon. member for South Coast had electorates held by a Government member better return to his usual seat so that he can is to be abolished, he cannot stand for the answer me; perhaps I should thank him for adjacent seat if it, too, is held by a sending this to me anonymously through the Government member. That is what the post-- pledge demands, and I give full credit to Me. HINZE: I rise to a point of order. I those who did not fall for that trick. The wish to make it quite clear that I have never only conclusion open is that Cabinet knows sent any,thing to the Leader of the Opposition. already what it will tell the commission. I ask him to withdraw the statement. I believe that asking any member of Parlia­ ment to sign a pledge-and I do not mean Mr. HOUSTON: I said if he did, I thank the pledge relative to liquor, about which him. If he did not, I do not thank him. the Premier has spoken on other occasions­ It is as simpie as that. The Deputy Leader of is established blackmail of the worst order. the Opposition also has a copy of the article, Mr. Hughes: Do you remember what Mr. so the hon. member for South Coast has a Duggan said about "wise or unwise"? mate. The "Gold Coast Bulletin" is a reputable Mr. HOUSTON: If the hon. member did newspaper circulating on the Gold Coast, and not sign it, he was wise. I have no reason to question the integrity of the editor. However, I wish to make two Mr. H~hes: I signed it, and I have no points. Firstly, we speak about having people apology to make for that. on ,the commission who are above reproach. Surely everyone would say that the editor of Mr. HOUSTON: Those hon. members this newspaper is above reproach. Although opposite who did not sign it were the wise probably I have met him, I do not know the ones. In the interests of their own electors, editor of the "Gold Coast Bulletin"'. hon. members opposite who did sign it should not have done so. Mr. Sullivan: Who is he? Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3327

!VIr. HOUSTON: I do not know who he is. been carried out according to the Act. A Mr. Sullivan: He would expect you, as prisoner is given a right of appeal from the Leader of the Opposition, to know him. decision of a magistrate. Our laws allow a prisoner the right of appeal from a judge. Mr. HOUSTON: The point that I wish to We are dealing with legislation affecting the make is that at this stage he would be con­ electoral boundaries of the State that will sidered an honourable man and available for be the basis for future Parliaments over appointment to the commission. I do not the next 10 or 15 years. We are saying, imagine that he would be one of the com­ missioners, but I think that what he says in "We will set up a commission as a servant this article can be taken as reliable. It of Parliament." Surely the idea of a com­ reads- mission is to make sure that it is not politi­ '· In the approaching redistribution of cally biased, although we know from what State boundaries the Gold Coast region has been said that under the present set-up looks like faring well-even better, in some it will be. ways, than a Bulletin editorial advocated Let us appoint a Supreme Court judge as on Tuesday." the chairman. Surely, in the matter of I shall refer to that at a later stage. It findings, he would not be afraid to refer continues- them, as well as the reasons for them " Along what I regard as a very reliable and the submissions made to the commission, political grapevine, I hear that a 'Gold to this Parliament. The commission's report Coast Zone' of three seats will be recom­ should not be made to the Premier. What mended to the Boundaries Tribunal for special right has he? After all he is the processing and ratification." leader of a political party-- That is how far the editor goes, and I put Mr. Low: He is the Leader of the House, that on record to see just how close to .the too. mark he is. He continued- "The Gold Coast Zone will have three Mr. HOUSTON: Only because he is the seats which will be: leader of a political party. If the hon. member and a few of his mates had got From the Border to Broadbeach; their way a few weeks ago, the Premier From Broadbeach to about Loders would have been a back-bencher now. He Creek; is only the Premier here while he has a vote From Loders Creek to the Logan for himself. If he had done a "Gorton", River also north, almost to the boun­ he would not have been Premier today. If daries of Brisbane." he had done what the former Prime Minister He also said- did, he would have said, "If I have not the complete confidence of my party, I will '·Under the recommendations the names not vote for myself", and he would not have of the three Gold Coast Zone electorates been Premier. will be: From the Border to Broadbeach, the As the Deputy Leader of the Opposition electorate will be known as Gold Coast; says, he was saved by two proxies and his own vote; in other words he had three votes. The second, to Loders Creek will be Of course, that is the principle he has adopted known as Southport; in this Bill-the value of three votes for The new seat, taking over the Logan some and one vote for others. When hon. area, including Beenleigh and Cleveland members opposite meet in caucus, those who segments will be known as Broadwater." represent big electorates do not say to those That is all reported under the editor's name. representing small electorates, "You put both That sort of opinion is not isolated. One hands up." Hon. members opposite are all can go to any Country Party area and right on principles except when it affects find that the people are talking about where them personally. As I said at the outset, the boundaries will be. Walk around Par­ electoral distribution throughout Queens­ liament House and one will hear responsible land is a matter for Queensland and Queens­ Ministers telling back-bench members where land people. It is not just a matter for any their boundaries are going to be. "Don't political party, whether or not it has mem­ worry about it", they say. Do not let us bers in this House. It is true that we, as make a farce out of the commission. If the members of Parliament, are charged with the Government is going to appoint a com­ responsibility for the time being of adminis­ mission, let it be headed by a Supreme tering the State. Court judge. No less a person than a Let me now get on to what we believe Supreme Court judge is required in the should have been contained in the Bill. The eyes of the public. Bill is bad; it is lop-sided; there is no rhyme The Bill provides that the commission will or reason in its provisions other than the report to the Premier. Why the Premier? sole purpose of keeping the Country Party Parliament is the supreme body in this in power irrespective of public opinion. For State. Parliament is the body to which the those reasons, we are not prepared to sup­ commission should report. Parliament should port the second reading. consider whether or not the distribution has Mr. Hinze: You know that is not true. 3328 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Mr. HOUSTON: I am absolutely con­ Mr. Hughes: I take it you would have vinced that a better Bill could be brought the same quota in each of the 69 seats? in by school-children with a slight knowledge Mr. HOUSTON: The Bill already lays of the procedures of this Parliament. As I down a 20 per cent. or one-fifth tolerance said before, it is a Bill that was born in up or down. I do not suggest that that panic and we are not prepared to accept it. should be interfered with. The only reason Of course, whether or not it will be thrown for that is to allow the commission a free out will depend on Government members. hand. As a Parliament-if we are "fair If the stage is reached where it is proceeded dinkum" and believe in Queensland and with, naturally, we will try .to get as good democracy; if we believe that the people a deal as we can for .the people of Queens­ of this State are entitled to their say­ land. Therefore, we will be moving amend­ surely all we should do is say to the com­ ments which will be in line with what we mission, "We believe in the West so give them a bit of a r.un as compared with have said right from the start. the rest of the State". Anyone who has taken notice of public (Time expired.) statements I have made on behalf of my colleagues will know that we believe the Dr. CRAWFORD (Wavell) (2.34 p.m.): I distribution should be made as nearly as listened with great care to the entire speech practicable to the principle of one vote, of the Leader of the Opposition and I was one value but that we are sympathetic to amazed at some of his statements, par­ the people living in the western parts of ticularly those relating to Mt. Isa and the the State. When I say "western parts" surrounding area. All hon. members, irres­ I am speaking about areas that have prob~ pective of political persuasion, would agree lems of communication, distance and sparsity that special circumstances exist in both the of population. That would be a matter Far West and Far North of the State, and for the commission. What our amendments that, it is recognised, if a quota is drawn up will be intended to do will be to create for five, six or more seats to contain the two zones, one which would closely cover very sparsely populated area west of the the existing nine western electorates including Great Dividing Range, this quota would need Cook. Whether the dividing line goes up to be much lower than that applying to this street or that street can be argued. Brisbane or to any of the other more thickly We are not concerned with .that, but it populated areas along the eastern seaboard. could be designated, and our amendments The Leader of the Opposition's complaint will clearly show the exact position where about Mt. Isa containing 10,000 voters and we believe the commission could draw their one of the other large western seats con­ line. However, it could then, completely taining 4,000 potential voters is not tenable. of its own free will, divide that area into If further mineral development occurs in the nine electorates. western areas of Queensland-and this is The rest of the State would be divided very likely-the same situation must arise. into 69 electorates, again completely at the The widest possible range must be given to will of the commission. The Labour •Party these parts of the State. does not want to tie the hands of the Mr. O'Donnell: What about Burketown and commission in any way. As I have pointed Cloncurry? They, too, are included in Mt. out from the outset, one of the most serious Isa. faults in this Bill is that the commission's hands are completely tied in at last 26 Dr. CRAWFORD: Of course they are. seats in one category and six in another. The development of the State in those areas The Government has said to the commission, -I have visited Mt. ·Isa in recent months­ "There is to be no variation in these boun­ creates very special problems. If a tentative daries; follow these boundaries exactly." In quota of 8,500 or 9,000 voters is fixed in respect of another seat the Bill lays down those areas, there can be no allegation of a for the commission, "All you can do is gerrymander because they will be repre­ divide it into two. We do not care where sented by five or six members. From a you divide it so long as you do as you practical point of view, it does not matter are told. You can only divide it into two". whether a line is drawn round Mt. Isa itself In regard to three provincial cities the com­ or whether the Mt. Isa electorate is spread mission is instructed to divide them into more widely. three. As is the prerogative of the Labour Party, As I have already pointed out, in the it has adopted a very parsimonious attitude case of Rockhampton and Gladstone, all to the whole matter of redistribution. This that the Bill does is join together Rock­ is merely playing politics. However, it is hampton North, Rockhampton South and very important that we have clear-cut con­ Port Curtis and say to the commission, cepts relative to what a redistribution should "Redivide that area into three seats". Too­ do. woomba East, Toowoomba West and Lock­ First, I should like to mention the yer have been put together and the com­ Premier's requesting a pledge by Govern­ mission has again been instructed to divide ment members. The Leader of the Opposi­ the resultant area into three and do nothing tion made great play of it, but I consider it else. to be completely unimportant. •I did not sign Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3329

it; I saw no need to sign it. It is of no another. As the hon. member for Port Curtis importance to me to make any form of realises, Gladstone has rapid growth problems political capital from the pledge, and I doubt of an acute type. whether it is of any importance to any Mr. Aikoens: A quota of 10,000 electors for Liberal or Country Party member. the western seats would wipe out about five Mr. Wright: Why sign it? seats. Dr. CRAWFORD: I did not sign it. Dr. CRAWFORD: I did not suggest a quota of 10,000 for the western seats. Mr. Wrigbt: If it is not important, why did they sign it? Mr. Aike.ns: That is what you said. Dr. CRAWFORD: I do not know. To me, Dr. CRAWFORD: I did not say that. I it is completely unimportant. It has no suggested a quota between 8,500 and 9,000, significance whatever to the Bill under debate. depending on where the seats are. Mr. Aikens: 20 per cent. up or down? The ideal division of Queensland can be made along the Great Dividing Range, so Dr. CRAWFORD: We must allow a varia­ that the State would be divided into western tion to take care of what might happen. In s.;ats on the west of the range and coastal the event of a copper strike at Boulia, there seats on the east of the range. I believe that would be an immediate population increase in a different criterion should be adopted when that area. establishing the quota in each of these areas. Mr. &omley: By how many? It is only in recent years that Brisbane began to expand very rapidly. In fact, at the Or. CRAWFORD: I do not know. How time of the 1958 redistribution Brisbane con­ could I judge? tained 36 per cent. of the electors, compared One way of overcoming the difficulty is to with 48 per cent. at the present time. But appoint a permanent electoral commission, nobody suggests that because Brisbane con­ which could then adapt small discrepancies tains 48 per cent. of the electors it should as they occur and before they become large contain 48 per cent. of the seats. Similarly, discrepancies and bring us to the present any local number that is pulled out of the problem type of situation. hat, such as the number of electors in Mary­ borough, Rock:hampton or Cairns, or any The ma·tter of direction by outside bodies other borough, is not relevant to the over-all has been mentioned repeatedly. Any direction situation. What is of relevance is the fact of any member of my party is not tolerable. that if the number of seats in the whole I take direction from nobody, and I make no coastal strip is divided into the number of apology for it. Any suggestion that the electors in that strip, a quota of approxi­ Liberal Party council meeting on Saturday mately 13,500 electors is obtained. directed me, or any other member of the Liberal Party in .this House, is utter rubbish. The Leader of the Opposition referred to However, at that council meeting the opinions the large number of electors in each of the of rank-and-file members of Parliament were seats in New South Wales. He said that expressed. If any member of this House is many seats, even those in the distant areas not prepared to take cognisance of the of the west of that State, contained as many opinion of the rank-and-file members of his as 25,000 or 29,000 voters. I remind him electorate and other electorates, he will meet that Queensland contains 22 per cent. of the a very sorry end indeed. Where a council, land area of Australia. Only about 3 per convention or caucus-give h any name you cent. of its population lives north of a line like-meets and expresses its individual and drawn across the State above Rockhampton, united opinion on any issue of the day, that and there are only about 50,000 people west is democracy at work. That is the way we of the Great Dividing Range. It is not should run our democracy; I applaud it. possible to correlate electoral redistribution in Queensland with that which pertains in Mr. Him:e: You would get a continual New South Wales. expression of opinion in your electorate with­ out having to wait for a council meeting, I am sure all hon. members will agree that wouldn't you? the important point is that all electors should receive electoral justice. In my mind, there Dr. CRAWFORD: That is very true. On is no doubt that this should be the ruling Saturday, I heard opinions expressed by criterion. I am sure it is possible to introduce people from all over Queensland. They were into this House a measure to bring that opinions that must be considered. about. As I said, the ideal quota for the Mr. Hinze. You have opinions expressed in coastal electorates is between 11,000 and your electorate all the time. 13,500 voters, with a 20 per cent. variation up or down, which permits a variation Dr. CRAWFORD: I said that. As far as between 10,000 and 14,000 or 15,000 elec­ the rest of Queensland is concerned, one is tors. There is little point in comparing able to gauge the feelings of the people, not Maryborough, Gladstone and Rockhampton. only the supporters of one's own party, but There must be variations in quotas, as indus­ of citizens throughout the State. I believe tries present in one area are not present in that it is not possible for any member of the 3330 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Labour organisation in this House to rise So that whether the Bill was introduced and disagree violently with policy as expressed or not depended on whether the Premier by the controlling body of that organisation. and the Deputy Premier could get sufficient I am prepared to do that if necessary, and I Liberal Party members to sign the pledge have proved it in this House before today. to ensure that, if some back-benchers If any member of the Labour organisation revolted and crossed the floor, the Bill would criticised any aspect of Labour legislation be carried. For an hon. member to say that was brought forward, I believe he would that signing the pledge was of no consequence come to a very rapid political end. relative to the introduction of the Bill is It is possible to amend the present Bill to wrong. give electoral justice to all. The major prob­ The Premier, in introducing the Bill, said lems are the very large provincial cities and that he considered it was of major importance. very large collections of population near the Having said that, he did not bother to reply Brisbane electorates. These various seats are to the speeches of the Opposition. He took held by members of all parties in this House. only 10 minutes this morning to move the No particular party has a lien on any area second reading of the Bill and to reply to around Brisbane or the provincial cities. As Opposition speeches at the introductory stag~. I say, it is possible to amend the Bill to So great is the importance placed on th1s give ele!::toral justice to all major parties and Bill by the Premier that he was able to all electors. explain to the people of .Que<:nsland in only A reasonable variation, I believe, should 10 minutes all the ramifications that have be in the vicinity of 1 to 1.7. Under this developed since redistribution was first legislation, if it is implemented, and as some mooted. statisticians say will occur, the variation will Mr. Sullivan: Does it occur to you that be 1 to 2.7. I believe that is one of the the Premier can say as much in 10 minutes major disadvantages of the present Bill which needs amendmg. Having attained a Bill of the type which Mr. SHERRINGTON: The Minister has I should like to see, progressive redistribution always been a good back-bench speaker. He is, as I remarked before, a very desirable likes to interject so that his name will be addendum to preclude the same type of recorded in "Hansard". If he has anything electoral situation developing again in a few to say, let him get up and make a speech. years' time. It is unimportant which I ask him not to try to crib my time. individual members of any Parliament are The Premier has said that the Bill is in returned or not returned. It is vitally the best interest of the State, and he has important that the right calibre of person be criticised the Opposition because we have elected and re-elected at successive elections. had the temerity to say what we think about Mr. Ramsden: I have been. this whole rotten mess that is taking place on redistribution today. Could any actions Dr. CRAWFORD: We will all applaud of the Opposition be more incredible than that one. If we cannot maintain the calibre the actions of the Premier in recent times? of those who are elected and re-elected, we At one time he was "hot" and "hard to get", have accomplished very little. and then the next minute he was "hot" and A redistribution Bill should achieve two prepared to negotiate. Could our attitude things. It should ensure that the right calibre be any more incredible than what has gone of person is elected and re-elected, and it on at the series of meetings held day by should arrange electoral redistribution to day and extending into all hours of the give electoral justice to all areas of our night? The Opposition has not found it State. This can be done by what could necessary to do such things. We have be considered to be minor amendments to known exactly where we were going in the the Bill, and I trust that this is what will matter or redistribution, and I remind the happen in this Parliament today when these House that the Opposition has not deviated amendments are considered. from the original course that it proposed as being fair and honest. Mr. SHERRINGTON (Salisbury) (2.48 I see that the Premier is now being briefed p.m.): The good doctor who has just resumed his seat tried to give some sort of palliative by the hon. member for Townsville South. to the Opposition. He said that the action I suppose he does need a little help. of those who signed the pledge was inconse­ The Premier then went on to say that, quential relative to the measure before the despite all the things that the Opposition was House. In saying that, he is at complete saying and doing, the legislation now being variance with the opinion of the Deputy debated was based on the 1949 electoral Leader of the Liberal Party, the Minister redistribution legislation brought down by a for Justice, who was reported in "Sunday Labour Government. He said that, with Truth" last Sunday as follows:- some variation, what the House is debating "He said at a joint party meeting on today is almost identical with Labour legisla­ Wednesday Mr. Bjelke-Petersen had said tion and thinking in 1949. I remind the that there would be no Bill unless there House that one .of the great variations is was an assurance from the Liberal Party that the Labour legislation of that day pro­ that there would be no three-cornered vided for the commission to be presided challenge to any sitting Member." over by a Supreme Court judge. Be that as Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3331

it may, the Premier indicated that basically The editorial in "The Australian" this the legislation before the House today was morning said- based on the 1949 Labour legislation. "The Country Party wants to bring in Let us look back to see what Mr. Bjelke­ a gerrymander that will allow it to counter­ Petersen, who was then the hon. member act the population trends that are running for Nanango, had to say about the Labour strongly against it, and to help offset an legislation in 1949. He said- inept leadership that has little appeal in the new areas of population growth." "But when you consider the principles of the Bill you come to the conclusion As I said, there is no way in the world that its purpose is to get greater control that an editor would specifically write an over the lives of the people, as it is in editorial of that type merely because his effect saying to the public, 'Whether you newspaper favoured the policy of the Aus­ like it or not, we will be the Government; tralian Labour Party. The editorial made whether you like our policy or not, you this very important point- have to accept it.' " "When Sir Thomas 'Playford was con­ That is what Mr. Bjelke-Petersen had to say ducting his gerrymander in South Australia, about the Labour legislation in 1949. Indeed, many tended to excuse him because he he even did a little better than that; not was giving his State an economically com­ being beset by the troubles of leadership, he petent government. In Queensland it spoke at greater length. He waxed eloquent is difficult to think of one major area of in saying- activity in which the supporters of the "Truly, these are grave days for the Queensland Government can take pride." people of Queensland, not so much because of the enemy without as because of the I regret that, because of the short time enemy within. Little do the people realise available to me, I am unable to quote the grave injustice that is silently being all the other "juicy" parts of the editorial. inflicted unon them. In a most subtle way However, it concludes by saying-and I ask their freedom to select the Government members of the Liberal ,party to examine they want to represent them is being taken their consciences when they are called upon away from them.'' to vote on the Bill- "At least the Liberal and Labour pro­ Those were the words of the present Premier. posals will bring genuine democracy closer Now, because he is in all sorts of trouble in Australia's third-largest State. Whatever with his own party, the Liberal Party, and their faults, Queenslanders deserve an the public, he comes into this House and electoral system that is better than that tries to say that the legislation now before proposed by Mr. Bjelke"Petersen." the House is almost identical with that of the 1949 Labour Government. Members of the Liberal ,Party in this Cham­ ber know that there is some semblance Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: You had to have 34 of parity between the proposal put forward seats to get what you wanted. by the Opposition and that put forward by the Lib~ral Party, and I again ask Mr. SHERRINGTON: The Premier came them to examine their consciences when into the Chamber and tried to smooth the the second-reading debate concludes and the situation over by saying, "The Bill is exactly vote is taken. in line with what Labour did". If he says now that the Bill is basically the same as Mr. Murray: It is not so long ago that the Bill introduced in 1949, he is saying you said Liberals did not have a conscience. that he believes that the power of the people to elect Governments is being steadily Mr. SHERRINGTON: I am asking the taken away from them, that we are menaced hon. member whether he has. I shall put by the enemy within, not by the enemy it simply: if he thinks that he has a con­ without. If I were the Premier, I would science, let him have an examination carried remain silent and not interject very much out by a doctor. If the doctor finds a at this stage. conscience, somebody should examine the doctor. When one refers to the Liberal Party, it is difficult to distinguish whether one means Mr. SPEAKER: Order! those who are trying to achieve Cabinet portfolios or those in the group currying Mr. SHERRINGTON: I believe that the favour with the executive of the party. contents of the Bill as a whole are an Criticism of the Government is coming insult to the intelligence of the members of not only from members of the public but this Assembly. also from newspapers whose editorials have Mr. R. Jones: And of the people of never traditionally favoured Labour. They Queensland. are now being openly critical. It is not left to the Opposition to say that the Govern­ Mr. SHERRL~GTON: And of the people ment is perpetrating a gerrymander. News­ of Queensland, and of all those who take papers that have never supported Labour's a genuine interest in trying to promote the policies are saying that very thing. principle of democracy. 3332 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

How any Government could introduce 14 temerity to suggest that the commissioners pages of fraudulent and spurious material and would be pre-instructed and that electoral then label it as "A bill to make provision for quotas would be predetermined, he had the the better distribution of electoral districts" audacity to say that I was reflecting on the begs comprehension, to say the least. Instead commissioners. of being a measure to make provision for the Like my Leader and other hon. members better distribution of electoral districts, I on this side, I believe that any semblance believe the foul thing to be nothing more that the commission will have to an impartial than a political rort. I assume, Mr. Speaker, body will be purely coincidental because this that you have read the Bill word for word. infamous piece of legislation lays down Instead of being entitled, "A Bill to make exactly how it will have to act in many areas. provision for the better distribution of elec­ Even while the Treasurer was delivering his toral districts," I believe that it should have lecture to me, he knew all of these things. been labelled, "An exercise in political rorting He knew that his own Liberal colleagues in fourteen easy pages". would not accept the measure wholly or in I say very sincerely that there is only one part. Is it any wonder that he chose to slink forthright statement in the Bill, and only one away to Gordon Wesley's hide-out rather than statement that shows any semblance of truth face the Liberal convention? or justice, and that is the one that appears on Mr. Chalk: That is not true, but I would the final page: "By Authority: S. G. Reid, expect it of you. Government Printer, Brisbane". Mr. SHERRINGTON: If the Treasurer Mr. R. E. Moore: Cool it. thinks that the hand-shaking or the spending Mr. SHERRINGTON: I do not have to of a few "bob" at a school fete is more "cool" i.t. The hon. member does not need important than redistribution, I fail to under­ to worry about my blood pressure. I should stand him. be more worried if I were a Liberal trying Mr. Chalk interjected. to examine my conscience, and faced with the position that hon. members opposite are Mr. SHERRINGTON: The Treasurer does in today. not like it when anyone comes back at him. Like Murphy's dog, he can give it but not Mr. R. E. Moon: What conscience have take it. you got? Mr. Chalk: You can come back at me Mr. SHERRINGTON: I have plenty of it. as much as you like; you do not worry me. I have proved that on many occasions in this Chamber. Mr. SHERRINGTON: That is quite mutual. I wish to refer now to the attack that the Deputy Premier chose to make on me at the Mr. Chalk: Your voice is about as good introductory stage. He sat in his corner on as mine. the Government benches, waited until I Mr. SHERRINGTON: As a matter of spoke, and then tried to deliver the coup de fact I would not have wasted my time on grace at a time when he knew I could not you, Mr. Chalk, but I knew that it would answer him. I believe that I should answer hurry you back. the charges of the Deputy Premier, when he accused me of reflecting on the personnel of Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Will the hon. the future electoral commission. Because I member please address the Chair? said that in my opinion the electoral com­ mission that would be appointed under the Mr. SHERRINGTON: I feel that there is provisions of the Bill was going to be directed little need for me to recanvass the argu­ to do certain things, and because I had the ments adduced by the Leader of the Opposi­ temerity to say that in my view the commis­ tion, but I should like to refer to the great sioners would be merely ventriloquists' discrepancies that will occur under this dummies voicing the words put into their measure. It has already become obvious that mouths by the Government, the Deputy it is a move to "get" Jim Blake. That is Premier accused me of reflecting on the per­ the only construction that any decent, think­ sonnel of the Commission. How can one ing person could put on a proposal to take reflect on something in the future, I do not out of the Isis electorate a predominantly know. However, he chose to make that Labour vote, lump it into the seat of Mary­ attack on me when he already knew that in borough and give that seat a quota of almost the provincial cities zone the areas of 18,000 electors. I ask each and every mem­ Bundaberg, Cairns, Mackay, Maryborough, ber of this House can he give me any valid Mt. Isa and Redcliffe had been determined reason for this sort of action other than as electorates. If that is not instructing the that the word has gone out, "Get Jim Commission what to do, I ask him to tell Blake. We have to get rid of Isis." me what is. Mr. R. Jones: Purely for vindictiveness. The Bill lays it down that in certain other districts it will take the boundary and divide Mr. SHERRINGTON: Yes. As a matter it by two or three. Would that not be of fact, the Premier has never forgotten the directing the commission as to how it should drubbing the Labour candidate gave the draw its boundaries? Because I had the Country Party in Isis and he has never Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH) Electoral Districts Bill 3333

forgiven the person responsible. There is electorates. No more glaring example of no logical explanation for suddenly jacking this can be found than the proposals LJ up the quota of an electorate in the middle establish the Mt. Isa electorate with approxi­ of the State to almost 18,000 votes, if it mately 12,000 or 13,000 voters and the is not for the purpose of getting rid of the adjoining electorate with approximately 6,500 Labour member for Isis, Mr. Blake. only. As I say, the provision in the Bill that And this is a Bill that will go into the lays down where the boundaries of certain Statute Book of Queensland as being one "to places such as Cairns, Maryborough, Bunda­ make provision for the better distribution of berg and so on should go, is an instruction electoral districts" in Queensland! I ask: to the commissioners, to say the least of it. better for whom? There is only one answer During the introductory stage I said on the -better for the Country Party. If the Liberal question of the redistribution now being exposed in all its sordid shabbiness that a leader had any semblance of loyalty to his study of the contents of this Bill, when under­ beliefs, he would not be prepared to continue taken, would probably prove that my state­ to accept the position in which he has been ment on that occasion was the understate­ placed, namely, that of junior partner in the ment of the year. In not one principle does coalition. Surely we are not being asked to the Bill make any attempt to relate the value believe that a man who has been elected of votes or give any semblance of similarity. leader of his party is prepared to continue as There is not one attempt to get anywhere stable boy for the Country Party. But near the principle of one vote, one value, apparently he would rather do that than­ whether one subscribes to that principle or I use his words-"See the Socialist, Trades­ not. Hall dominated Labour Opposition on the Mr. Hinre: I think you will end up with Treasury benches." In uttering those words an electorate of the same kind as I will. he speaks with tongue in cheek. On many occasions of industrial trouble Cabinet Mr. SHERRINGTON: I do not care what Ministers have run to the Trades Hall seeking I end up with. I will be back here. I will advice. We have all heard the attacks made beat them all-doctors, witch-doctors, saw­ in this Chamber on Mr. Egerton-I have doctors or anyone the Government likes to heard them for 12 years-but they did not throw against me. I do not care. I am like Churchill. I will fight you on the prevent the Government from appointing him beaches, on the playing fields and even to the Consumers Affairs Council. under gerrymandered electorates. On my examination of the Bill, which divides the State into so many different types Mr. SPEAKER: Order! of zones and electoral districts, each with its Mr. SHERRINGTON: As I say, there is different quota, I come to only one conclu­ not the semblance of an attempt to relate the sion, namely, that the Country Party has now value of votes or give any sort of similarity. departed from its traditional role of boundary One need only canvass the situations in riders to one of habitual boundary riggers. Maryborough, Cairns, Mackay and Mt. Isa. The more I read the Bill the more I am left There is not one such principle in the Bill, with that impression. The departure from and I do not know why I say "principle", the formula of the one-fifth marginal allow­ because the Bill does not contain any; rather ance as the basis of redistribution in the it contains only bald statements of fact. Not country zones clearly indicates the extent to one provision gives any semblance of fair which the Country Party is prepared to or impartial redistribution. Of course, the prostitute electoral justice in this State. Country Party has never believed in fairness I have heard one Country Party member or impartiality in the distribution of votes. after another attack the rotten little pocket Perhaps I should phrase that in another way: boroughs that were created under Labour's the Country Party believes that everything !eaislation. They had the audacity to refer that enables the minority of voters to guar­ to" Labour's electorates as rotten little pocket antee the Country Party the position of boroughs, yet Parliament has been presen~ed dominant party in the coalition is fair and with a Bill that creates electoral quotas wrth impartial. only one purpose in mind, namely, to keep All hon. members, particularly those on the Country Party as the dominating force the Government side, should examine their in Parliament. If the redistribution were consciences. If the Bill is passed it will per­ designed to keep the Opposition out of office, petuate not only the scandalous difference there might be some justification for it, or between the number of electors in the metro­ perhaps on that basis Co~ntry Party ~embers politan seats of Aspley, Salisbury and Bel­ could salve their conscrences, but rt goes mont, with 22,000 voters, and the number deeper than that. The design, to ~se the in the inner-city electorates with only 6,000, Premier's words, is, "Whether you hke our 7,000 or 8,000 voters, but also the scandalous policies or not, we are going to remain the imbalance in electorates throughout the State. Government of this State." As well, with the effiuxion of time it will speed up the drift away from even the possibility I ask: how far can the Country Party of achieving one vote, one value. The Bill go in changing the concept of the Nickli~ will further distort the ratios between Government relative to 4-D Government. 3334 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

One has only to turn back the pages of Getting back to what I was saying, and history to see that Mr. Nicklin said in his not repeating the words I was obliged to policy speech in 1957- withdraw, I believe that the Country Party "We shall give you­ has deviated a long way from what it was Democratic government; under the Nicklin Government. Decent government; The formula for calculating the quotas in Development; the various electorates in the provincial cities Decentralisation." zone is nothing short of scandalous. I regard the Government's method of working out He then said- redistribution quotas as a piece of leger­ "This we shall give you irr place of demain such as, "Think of a number, double what this State has experienced during it, add 10, halve it, and take away the number the past 25 years of Labour rule, n .tmely­ you first thought of." The answer, of course, Dictatorial government; is the number of votes required to keep Dishonest government; Country Party candidates in office. Dissipation of State resources; I cannot see why any reputable person in Destruction of Queensland's credit." the community should be insulted or embar­ Mr. Chinchen: That's right. rassed by being asked to sit on a commission such as this. I have every confidence that a Mr. SHERRINGTON: I am glad to hear couple of Public Service clerks, an employee Government members saying, "That's right". from the Survey Office and a computer, armed with the information contained in the In his speech, the Premier said that the Bill, could draw up the boundaries in about Government has given this State decentralisa­ two weeks. Public money should not be tion, yet the editorial in today's "Australian" wasted in setting up this costly tribunal to states quite clearly- determine the boundaries. I say without "Even in Brisbane, electorates now vary hesitation that this infamous Bill, this price­ from just over 9,000 to nearly 22,000 less piece of political chicanery, this disreput­ voters. But the major population trend able scrap of paper, makes a hollow mockery is from rural to urban areas, which is of the reference to the tribunal being fair inimical to the Country Party's long-term and impartial. It will bring into disrepute survival as the dominant partner in the those people who are requested to serve on Queensland Government." it. They will be embarrassed by being asked How can Government members claim that to sit on such a commission. It is patently they have promoted decentralisation? The obvious that the formula for the various Government has departed in no small zones is designed to keep the Country Party measure from the Nicklin doctrine of 4-D as the dominant force in the coalition. The Government. It still retains 4-D Government, Country Party is prepared to fight to the last but it has now become- Liberal in the coalition. Deceitful; One of the grave omissions from the Bill, Disreputable; as the Leader of the Opposition pointed out, Dishevelled; is an obligation of the commission to present Dishonest. its findings to Parliament. The Bill lays down that the commission shall deliver its Mr. Mnrray: Oh, Doug! report not to Parliament, which is the supreme Mr. SHERRINGTON: That's all right; ruling body in this State, but to the Premier. the hon. member need not call me "Doug". History records the reports, presented to Cabinet or the Premier, that have never seen Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I have allowed the light of day. I believe that one of the the hon. member for Salisbury quite a deal basic fundamentals of justice in electoral of latitude, but his last remarks cannot be redistribution is that final approval or rejec­ permitted and I ask him to withdraw them. tion of the findings of the commissioners lies He is imputing improper motives to the with Parliament. If that is not the position, Government. I ask him to exercise restraint something very close to a dictatorship has in his remarks. If there are any more such been set up. I do not think that any members remarks I will have to deal with him under were more startled than Government back­ Standing Order No. 123A. benchers when they saw what the Bill con­ Mr. Aikens interjected. tained, but they were not the only ones who were uninformed. There has been more than Mr. SHERRINGTON: The hon. member ample evidence in the last few days that the should keep out of it. At least I do not majority of Ministers did not know what was crawl around the Cabinet door looking for in it. favours. If one reads carefully through the maze Mr. SPEAKER: Order! of statements printed in the Press in the last few days, one will see that the preparation Mr. SHERRINGTON: Mr. Speaker, I of this infamous piece of paper was the assure you that I am quite prepared to work of four people, namely, the Premier withdraw the remarks. I have no intention and Deputy Premier, and the deputy leaders of being thrown out of the Chamber today. of the Country Party and the Liberal Party. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3335

It has become obvious that no-one except In stating my attitude to the measure as those four people knew, except for its it now stands, I wish to repeat the position general principles, what the Bill contained. of my party, which was stated at the outset of the talks on this matter of redistribution. Having due regard to the manner in which Of course, we know that there must be talks the member for Wavell attempted to reduce between coalition partners, and that is an the importance of the pledge required by the attitude that has been steadfastly maintained. Premier, and also having due regard to The Liberal Party has always held that any the fact that the Minister for Justice said move to enlarge the Legislature at this time quite clearly that if an undertaking that there could not be justified in the public interest. would be no three-cornered contests was We also thought that, on a 78-seat basis, any not given there would now be no Bill before rational arrangement of electorates must be Parliament, it is quite clear that the entire based on the clear patterns of population responsibility for the structure and presenta­ growth and the regional developments that tion of the Bill lies with the Premier. It were obvious in the State and most marked was he, and he alone, who made the final in the State's south-east corner. As I said, decision on whether a Bill would come before the proposals in the Bill are very far from Parliament. He has also made it patently what I, and I think my party, would have clear that if he is pushed over the brink on hoped for. We would have looked for pro­ this matter he will withdraw the legislation posals which were reasonably proper in and the Government will go to the polls terms of essential electoral equity, which, as on the present boundaries. If that is not I say, were cognisant of these clear patterns closely approaching dictatorship in this State, of population and regional development, I do not know how close it is possible to and we accepted-because this is part of get to it without, as it were, going over the game of practical politics-as providing the brink. reasonable opportunity for sitting members -I use "sitting members" in the broad (Time expired.) sense-and which were fair to all parties in addition to being manifestly fair to the Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (3.28 p.m.): At the introductory stage of the Bill I indicated electorate at large. that I was opposed to it because, as I saw I said at the introductory stage that not it, not only did it have some very clear only was this a matter of political principle inadequacies but it also contained, as I as far as I was concerned but it was also expected, some very unpalatable extremes. a matter of hard, practical political common I said then that I was opposed to the Bill, sense, because I am quite sure that in today's but, because I expected that it would contain climate the electorate will not easily accept a great deal that was quite good, I would proposals that manifestly try to short-change not participate any further in the debate on them. And I believe that this Bill does it from that point of time. precisely that. I think that the results of the Senate election, which have been con­ That was the stand I took at the intro­ firmed by the trends in recent elections in ductory stage after giving the matter a great different States-the drift away from major deal of thought, because this is a matter on parties, particularly from my own party; the which I have held very firm views for many tendency towards fragmentation of the vote years. I must say that the position then was of the major parties-are quite unmistakable very different from the stage that has now evidence that today's electorate, if I may been reached when the Bill has actually been put it that way, requires that political parties seen and studied, and, of course, certain put public interest before self interest, and events have taken place within my own it is this conclusion which is basic to the party. I must now say that what is in the whole Liberal approach to the matter of Bill is very different from what I had redistribution. Certainly it is so as far as I, expected. This may be my fault, but the personally, am concerned. fact is that what is there is quite different from what I believed was likely to be there. I turn now to another aspect of the matter, Of course, one must remember that no one which has been raised here and raised Liberal back-bencher had seen the Bill in substantially in the Press. I refer to the detail before it appeared in the House. suggestion that Liberal members are being suborned by direction from their party. It It is very difficult for Liberal members­ has been suggested in many quarters that the and I should hope the House as a whole has Liberal Party, through its State executive some sympathy for this situation-to be and State president, is directing its parlia­ happy in accepting the measure as it is mentary members over the issue of State drafted. I recognise that there is a different situation with members of the Cabinet, who electoral redistribution. This, of course, is perhaps are strait-jacketed by the necessity not correct. The Liberal Party advises, and for Cabinet collective agreement, although, does not direct, its parliamentarians on as I have said before in this House-and I detailed aspects of implementation of policy say it again-I regret the intrusion of the and administration. But, of course, all principle of Cabinet collective agreement into members sign a pledge, when they seek the party rooms. To me, that is not helpful party's endorsement, to conform to the broad in the affairs of government. However, I party platform, and no-one would expect any accept that this is the situation. less than that. 3348 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

is interesting to note that, according to the displayed by the Premier. The article then Press, the Electoral Commission of Papua referred to the Premier-"Premier Hot". I and New Guinea recommended to the House do not intend to read what Dr. Delamothe of Assembly in Port Moresby that young said because I think another hon. member people be given t~e vote. I .emphasise that. referred to it today. I realise that th1s matter 1s not covered Mr. Bennett: He used a word beginning the Bill; I refer to it only to point out with "B", didn't he? in New Guinea the electoral commission is given certain authority. I believe that Mr. BROMLEY: He did, and it was a Queensland's Electoral ~ommission likewi~e &even or eight-letter word. should be given authonty to make certam recommendations, particularly relative to I repeat that this is a gerrymander Bill. voting by people under the age of 21. Preferential voting and gerrymandering are keeping the minority coalition Government The Premier and the Liberal Party have in power, and this applies particularly to the dodged this issue. I say "Premier" advisedly Country Party. The number of votes cast because, although he has acted in conjunction at the last State election prove for all with the Country Party bosses and the time which is the most popular party. The Treasurer, in effect the Bill is his. The Liberal Party is more popular than the Treasurer confirmed that statement when he Country Party (which is the lowest in pop­ said that none of the back-benchers had ularity), and the Australian Labour Party seen the Bill in the early stages a~d, in is more popular than the Liberal and Country tact, did not know any of its deta1ls. I Parties combined. challenge the Liberals to show fight and oppose the Bill. Mr. Hungerford: That is your opinion. The infighting that took place for a con­ Mr. BROMLEY: That is my opinion, and siderable time between Cabinet, the Country it is bolstered by the number of votes cast, Party and the Liberal Party has made the as shown in the official return that was Government of Queensland the laughing tabled and ordered to be printed after the stock of Australia. Last Saturday's "Tele­ last State election. graph" dated 27 March contained an interest­ Mr. Bennett: And your opinion is based ing article relative to the Bill which makes on evidence. me wonder what is happening amongst Cabinet members. It is headed, " 'Liar'" Mr. BROMLEY: That is so. I completely and reads- refute the interjection by the hon. member "The Minister for Labour and Tourism, who said that it was only my opinion. It is Mr. Herbert, accused Mr. Porter (Too­ everybody's opinion because we gained 45 wong) of being a liar." per cent. of the votes compared with 44.8 Mr. Benne«: Most unparliamentary, 1 per cent. gained by the Government parties. would say. I remind the House that the Country Party has never held power in its own right in Mr. BROMLEY: Yes, it is unparliament· any State. That statement applies equally ary, but they can use any language they to the Liberal Party. The A.L.P. is the care to in their caucus meetings. That is only party which has received sufficient why I said I was reading the article when support from the majority of electors to 1 used that word. The article states- form a Government in its own right. This "The Minister for Labour and Tourism, applies not only in the State sphere but Mr. Herbert, accused Mr. Porter (Too­ in the Commonwealth sphere. Neither the wong) of being a liar when Mr. Porter Liberal Party nor the Country Party has claimed the pledge on three-cornered con· ever formed a Government in its own right, tests primarily had been written by Mr. in either the Federal or State sphere, in Herbert." over 45 years. While we have had Liberal It is a pity there were not about eight or Prime Ministers, we have not had a Liberal nine Government members who did not Premier in this State for many years. ~ign it. I suppose another two or three are Mr. Chalk: Is that right? sorry that they signed it. Mr. Hanlon: Gordon reigned for about The article continues- five days. "Mr. Herbert said the document which had been signed by all except six mem­ Mr. Chalk: It is only by a li1tle bit that bers of the joint State Government parties you are out. had been written by the Premier, Mr. Mr. BROMLEY: Yes, but it is that little bit Bjelke-Petersen and the Deputy Premier that is very often interesting and counts. and Liberal Leader, Mr. Chalk. I agree with the hon. member for Baroona "The document was submitted to the that the Deputy Premier and Treasurer did joint parties last Wednesday." reign for five days and five nights, and The ultimatum was that unless they signed it was a very wet period of five days and the pledge no Bill would be brought down. five nights. In their wisdom they thought, "We must The Treasurer and the Liberal Party do have a distribution Bill and this is the only not need the Country Party, but the Country way to get it in." They knew the stubborness Party needs them. The Liberal Party will !Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3349 only ever have Ministers in the coalition; from Toowoomba East, have over the year& it will never have a Premier, except an been represented by two able members who acting one. Shame on the Liberal Party if have devoted their time and energy to the it leans and relies on the Country Party welfare of the city of Toowoomba and its to remain on the Treasury Bench. Now people. The interests of the community at is the time for the Liberals to stand on large have always been of paramount import­ their own two feet, abide by their own ance to the elected representatives of the two principles and say, "We must have electoral Toowoomba electorates. The electors of justice so that the Liberal Party, which is Toowoomba know their elected members, and progressing, unlike the Country Party, which the members know their constitutents and is regressing, will have the opportunity to their requirements. .If given secretarial put its principles and philosophies forward, assistance, the two members can, and will, otherwise it will be in the political wilderness cope adequately with the demands of the for ever". people of the city of Toowoomba, even Unless the Liberal Party decides to move allowing for a population increase in the amendments or to support any honest and next few years. just amendments which we move-I do not Let us consider the position of members of include Country Party members in this the Federal Parliament. In their electorates because none of them has the intestinal they have up to 50,000 constituents. How are fortitude to vote for electoral justice-that they able to cope with the demands of that party will always remain in the political number? Each is given a full-time secretary wilderness and will never have an opportunity and an office so that he can attend to the to form a Government. wants of his constituents. I believe that It is a shame that, over the years, Queens­ State members, particularly in country areas, land has been plagued with a coalition-bed­ should be given the same facilities. From partners; a marriage of convenience-with time to time matters crop up that require each party putting forward its separate policy the urgent dispatch of letters and telegrams, at election-time. The Australian Labour and this work can be done properly only from Party asks only for a chance to govern this an office. State by a majority of votes obtained in a just and equitable redistribution. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I advise the hon. member that he is getting a little off the track Mr. BOUSEN (Toowoomba West) (5.9 and is discussing matters that do not pertain p.m.): I rise to support the remarks of the to the Bill. This is a second-reading debate, Leader of the Opposition and other Opposi­ and I ask him to keep to the principles of tion members in opposition to the Bill, which, the Bill. in its present form, will not give the people of Queensland voting justice. It is nothing Mr. BOUSEN: I shall obey your ruling, more than another attempt to save the Mr. Speaker, and refer to the third seat that coalition Government. What is happening is proposed for the City of Toowoomba. now is very similar to what happened when The member elected, whoever he may be, the Margarine Act Amendment Bill was about will be torn between two loyalties. Which to be introduced. The coalition parties were section will he support? There will be conflict unable to agree on that occasion, and, as between rural and urban interests in his a result of the conflict between them, that electorate. Bill was withdrawn and has not been presented again. Mr. Sullivan: Which one? The conflicts that are apparent from time Mr. BOUSEN: The third seat in Too­ to time within the coalition parties are the woomba. Which one does the hon. gentleman result of personal ambi.tion, and I believe think I am referring to? He came in too late they will eventually bring about the downfall to hear me say that I am not concerned in of the Government. The sooner that happens, the least. I will tell him now that both the the better it will be for the people of hon. member for Toowoomba East (Mr. Queensland, who will then have an Australian Peter Wood) and I will be here after the next Labour Party Government. As was pointed election, no matter how the Government out earlier, voting figures that have been gerrymanders the boundaries. made public from time to time show that the Mr. Sullivan: Many people who voted for Australian Labour Party is the popular party you last time are having second thoughts with the voters, as the votes cast for it out­ about doing so again. weigh the total votes cast for both the Country Party and the Liberal Party. It is Mr. BOUSEN: The Minister for Lands therefore obvious that the people of Queens­ would not know. He is worried about his land are crying out for an Australian Labour own seat of Condamine. I have spoken to Party Government. If the Government is not people in Oakey, Dalby, and other places, prepared to accept the amendments to the Bill and the hon. gentleman is as good as defeated that are to be proposed by the A.L.P., l­ already. He should not talk about anyone and, I am sure, every other member on this else. side of the House-will be quite happy to The third seat proposed for Toowoomba go to the people at the next State election under the redistribution will only bring about on the present boundaries. My electorate of a clash between rural and urban interests. Toowoomba West, and that of my colleague I should like to know how the people in the 3338 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

and stumps simply because he is not allowed Leader of the Liberal Party, who, I repeat, to bat all the time. If I cannot get every­ were deputed by the rank-and-file members thing I want I take the best I can get, and of both parties to do the job. I think that is the attitude that both the Let me examine this redistribution of Premier and the Deputy Premier adopted electoral boundaries to highlight the peculiar when they set out to design the best possible position in which Queensland finds itself. I plan for this redistribution. had our very efficient Library staff prepare We have heard talk of zones. The Labour for me a list of the electorates in Victoria !"arty always believed in a zonal system, and at the 1965 redistribution in that State. I It was a good one. We have heard a great hope there has not been another one since deal about the 1948 redistribution plan that then; this is the latest list they could get for was put forward by the then Labour Govern­ me. I understand from it that there are 73 ~ent. It has been called a gerrymander, and electorates in Victoria, where the whole of m some respects it might have been. I was the land area-this should not be forgotten not enamoured of the whole of it. As far -is only 87,884 square miles. The Gregory as the northern and western seats were electorate in Queensland alone contains ~oncerned it was not a gerrymander, because 159,000 square miles. In Victoria a redis­ It gave to the people in those areas of the tribution was arranged on mileages, yet State the rights they deserve. It set out members of the "ginger" group tell us that very plainly that one Westerner or one they take no notice of sticks and stones, or Northe_rner. was worth three or four people forests and trees-that they are interested who hve m the "Golden Circle" of the only in people. How the tears run down their State. If an amendment could be inserted care-worn cheeks when they talk of their i~ th~ Bill to provide that one person who love for the people. They would strangle lives m the North or the West is as good half of them if they had the chance. as three, four or even five people who live The largest electorate in Victoria is Gipps­ in the "Golden Circle", I would be very land East, containing 11,030 square miles. happy to support it. We must have at least 30 or 40 such elec­ The "ginger" group of the Liberal Party torates in Queensland. The smallest elec­ and their political blood-brothers, the A.L.P., torate is St. Kilda, with 3 · 05 square miles. announced to the world in clarion tones While the authorities have managed to achieve that they would not budge from the one some sort of equality of electorates in Vic­ vote, one value principle throughout the toria, at the same time giving quite a lot of State. There was to be a redistribution of help to people outside in the Wimmera, Mallee, electoral boundaries based on the vital sacred and Gippsland areas-they do not have big principle of one vote, one value. Then the electorates of 159,000 square miles because newspapers, the people, and various influen­ they have not the land, anyway-they cut tial organisations "got" at them and they the State up as evenly as possible. It is began to weaken. amazing that we are at present in the process of dealing with other legislation to increase Much to my surprise, the A.L.P. was the the salaries of Queensland judges, showing firs~ to. weaken. Its spokesmen said, "We that our legislators believe that Queensland believe m the one vote, one value principle judges are the equivalent of Victorian but because of political pressure and pressur~ judges and that they should get the same from the people we will give a loading to salary. I do not intend to deal with it, Mr. the people who live in the North and the Deputy Speaker, because, quite rightly, you West". We then heard the hon. member for would stop me. There is nothing wrong with Toowong start to "square off" on the one such a belief, but apparently our legislators vote, one value principle. He began to advo­ do not consider that Queensland parliamen­ cate some sort of loading for those who live tarians are equivalent to, or as good as, in the North and the West. Victorian parliamentarians, even the All this reminded me of the famous prayer humblest back-bencher of whom gets of S~. Augustine, who, when asked by the $15,200 a year plus all the lurks and perks. Pontiff of the day to take the oath of chastity, Doesn't that make hon. members' jowls run? prayed, Oh, Lord, grant me chastity-but That arrangement was made in 10 minutes n~t yet". These are the people who say in at a back-yard conference between the th1s House, "We believe in the principle of Leader of the Victorian Liberal Government one vote, one value; it is sacred and vital to and the Leader of the A.L.P. Opposition. us; we will fight and die for it-but not yet". Victoria's biggest electorate is 11,000 In 1949 there was no gerrymander. As square miles in area and its smallest is 3 · 05 far as I can see, there is no disputation over square miles. Queensland's biggest electorate the principle of zones provided for in the is 159,000 square miles, and there are many Bill. The A.L.P. does not disagree with the of 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 and 60,000 principle of zoning and, to my astonishment, square miles. The smallest-Baroona-is I learn from the hon. members for Wavell 2 · 05 square miles. If the tale was told, and and Toowong that even the "ginger" group I believe it to be true, the hon. member for d~ not disagree :vith the principle of zones; Baroona, an estimable young fellow, was the1r only complamt is that the zones are in driving through Brisbane from the South the the wrong places. They believe in zones­ other day. He blinked his eye and drove zones to suit themselves, not zones decided right through his electorate without noticing by the Leader of the Country Party and the it, and had to turn round and come back to it. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3339

The A.L.P. plan is monstrous. I have '"Burdekin" was changed. The late Arthur trie-d to understand it as it has been explained Coburn complained, and the name was to me by my friends in the A.L.P. Some changed again. The name of "Barcoo" may of them are in this House, although they be changed to "Houston". I do not suppose would not like me to mention their names, the Labour Party would object to that, but, because. if I did, they would have their if anyone wanted to, he could object, and I heads knocked off. The A.LP. plan is to feel sure that the commission, in order to have a narrow strip 20 miles wide from just keep that great old name in existence, would south of Mossman to Rockhampton. From change it back to "Barcoo". All this talk Rockhampton, it becomes a little wider and about secrecy and hole-in-corner business in takes in Toowoomba, and then continues to the tabling of the report of the commission the border. In that narrow strip of land, the is pure bunkum, and nobody knows it better A.L.P. would put 69 seats. On my reckoning, than Opposition members. 52 of those 69 seats would be between the Let me tell the House a story about border and just south of Bundaberg, and the electoral redistribution. In 1948 I had remaining 17 of them would be from just 13,000 electors on the Mundingburra roll. south of Bundaberg to Mossman. The area When the Labour ·Party cut up my new bounded by that line, the Northern Territory electorate of Mundingburra I had only 8,000 border. the New South Wales border, and electors, but they did not cut up Munding­ Cape York would contain nine seats. How burra for me. They thought, ".Poor old generous the A.L.P. is! Tom is a simple country lad. We can If the A.L.P. and the "ginger" group have put something over him without any trouble", a conference-! understand they have so they added, if I remember correctly, already been in conference-to arrange an 13 electorates throughout the State of Queens­ amendment for the Committee stage, I hope land, and in the Townsville area they cut they display some sense of decency and pay up Haughton, Mundingburra, Townsville and some regard for the people of the West and Hinchinbrook. Everyone told me that I the North who earn the money that keeps was going to run for Haughton because. Brisbane and the provincial cities going. by some strange mischance-! would not like to think it was done deliberately­ We heard from the Leader of the Opposi­ my home was left in the Haughton electorate. tion, stoutly supported by the rather soft­ Part of the old Mundingburra electorate voiced member for Salisbury, that the A.L.P. was left in Haughton, and another part of wants an assurance that the chairman of the that electorate was placed in Mundingburra. electoral commission will be no-one less than I did not say anything about it. Everyone a Supreme Court Judge. In my opinion, they was telling me that I was going to run could not get anyone less eminent than a for Haughton, and the Labour Party made Supreme Court judge. I could write down their plans on what they and everyone now, without taking time to think and without was telling me. It was then arranged that the stopping, the names of 1,000 people in late "Nugget" Jesson would receive A.L.J>. Queensland who are of better repute, are endorsement for Mundingburra. It was also more thought of and are held in higher regard arranged that the late Larry Kelly was to by the people of Queensland than any be given the endorsement for Hinchinbrook. Supreme Court judge. Why is there a demand I did not try to disillusion anyone until, for the Government to have a Supreme Court very shortly before nomination day, I mod­ judge as chairman of the electoral com­ estly and quietly announced that I would mission unless it is another encapsulation of run not for Haughton but for Munding­ the sickening, slobbering, social snobbery burra. Didn't that put the cat among the that always characterises the Labour Party? chickens! Reference has been made to the findings I was walking through the Parliamentary of the commission going to the Premier. Dining Room one night when "Johnno" What a lot of flapdoodle. After all, the Mann was sitting holding court at the head findings of these commissions have always of his table. At that time the late "Nugget" gone to the Premier as he is the ministerial J esson was a mate of his, and he had link between them and the Parliament. It is quite a lot of his friends round him. He then the Premier's job to lay the findings on called me over and said to me, "Tom, will the table of the House. If I remember you do me a favour?" I said, "Yes, 'Johnno', correctly, in 1948 and again in 1959 we if I can." He said, "Will you let 'Nugget' received great big multi-page printed reports run for Mundingburra?" I pondered and of the findings of the commissions containing cogitated for a while, and put on the various plans and what-have-you indicating correct facial expression. I did not pull where the electorates were, and we were the faces that Whitlam pulls on television given an opportunity to protest not only screens when he winks and blinks like a against the boundaries but also against the Jew eating biscuits. I waited for a while, names of the electorates. and then very quietly said, "Yes, 'Nugget' can run for Mundingburra". I have never The hon. member for Baroona will remem­ in my life seen men more pleased. "Johnno" ber that, in 1959, the name of his electorate Mann said, "Will you shake hands on it?" was changed. It was held at the time by the I said, "Yes," and I shook hands. As a Honourable W. Power. He grizzled because matter of fact, they crushed my fingers. the name had been changed. The name of I shook hands with all the A.L.J>. members. 3340 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

They said, "Well, that solves our problem". They have to take the Tweedledum or As I walked away, I said, "Yes, 'Nugget' Tweedledee who is selected by the Liberal can run in Mundingburra-against me". Party, the Country Party, or the Labour And that was the end of that! Party; they have no possible chance of deter­ mining the calibre of their member. What "Nugget" then had to run to the Q.C.E. can they do? They go to the polling booth The redistribution had been so arranged and choose the lesser of two evils. that there would not be time to hold Mr. W. D. Hewitt: The North Queensland plebiscites. "Nugget" ran to the Q.C.E., Labour Party does not give its members much and, by a narrow margin of two votes, got of an opportunity to choose their candidates, the endorsement for Hinchinbrook. Larry does it? Kelly got .the huff and resigned from the A.L.P., and, shortly after, he died. I hope Mr. AIKENS: As a matter of fact, the that one event was not contingent upon the North Queensland Labour Party calls applica­ other. tions from those wishing to contest the seat. We consider all the applications, and the That story shows just what the Labour hon. member would be astonished if he knew Government did. They cut up an electorate how many have wished to represent the party. for me. It was the same when they cut He would be astonished also to know how up Townsville North and Townsville South. narrowly I won the party selection for the George Keyatta kept telling me what a last election. great seat I had in Townsville North. I kept saying, "Yes, George, it's a good seat". Then, Let me come now to a very serious and right at the very death, I said I was not disturbing aspect of the debate. We know, going to run for Townsville North at all; of course, that the Liberal Party is split down I was going to run for Townsville South. the middle. We know that it is heading for I put a proposal to the Premier of the day, a major split similar to that which drove the Mr. Nicklin. I said, "I'll run for both A.L.P. out of office in 1957. We know that seats and win them if you pay me two the hon. member for Toowong is playing the salaries". He would not agree to that, same role in the Liberal Party as was played so I decided to run for the seat of Towns­ in the A.L.P. at that time by Joe Bukowski. ville South. George Keyatta would not We know that it goes much deeper than run for Townsville North. Bill Edmonds Liberal Party principles or Country Party would not run for Townsville North, and principles. We know that where the hon. neither would "Nugget" Jesson. The A.L.P. member for Toowong is concerned it is a sent Egerton and Duggan to Townsville to matter of pride, vanity and ambition, which, see if they could get a candidate for Towns­ of course, are good things for anyone to vi!le North-they regarded it as a Tory have. Had it not been for pride, vanity and seat-and they came up with Mr. Tucker, ambition, mankind would still be in the the present Deputy Leader of the Opposition. primeval slime; they have made men what For good or ill, we have had him with they are today. But when men belong to an us ever since. organisation, when they take a pledge of loyalty to that organisation, there is some­ I took great exception to something said thing that transcends pride, vanity and ambi­ by the hon. member for Wavell, because tion, and that is loyalty. That is a word that for many years I was a loyal party man has never been in the vocabulary of the hon. and I still am loyal to my own party. member for Toowong; it has never been in The hon. member for Wavell said, "I take the vocabulary of the 1hon. member for no direction from the Liberal Party executive Wavell; it has never been in the vocabulary or anybody else." He said that, expecting of many members of the Liberal Party. They to be applauded for his courage, independ­ are loyal all right-to their own little clique, ence and tenacity. But, whilst he does to their own self-interest. not take direction from the Liberal 'Party executive, he does take its endorsement; he Some Liberal members have told us that does take its money and assistance at elec­ they intend to vote for the second reading of tion-time; and he does take whatever prestige the Biil. The Bill will then go into the it can bring him. In other words, he takes Committee stage, and we know already that everything from the Liberal Party that will members of the "ginger" group of the Liberal bring him into Parliament and then stands up Party have been in close collaboration with and says, "I am a courageous man. I do not the leaders of the A.L.P. in this House, take instructions from the Liberal Party." "nutting out" amendments that they intend to If I had anything to do with the Liberal move during .the Committee stage of the Party, the hon. member would take instruc­ Bill. Let us assume that these shirt-tail tions from the Liberal Party--or else! amendments, agreed to in secret by repre­ sentatives of the Liberal Par.ty and of the The hon. member said also, "If we are to A.L.P., are put before hon. members. It will have a redistribution of electoral boundaries, not matter to the A.L.P. whether it really let us see to it that we bring into the House agrees with them or not, because in this game the right calibre of member''. How the hell of party politics, the A.L.P. would be stark can we bring the right calibre of member raving mad if, for political purposes, it did into this House with the party system operat­ not run along with the "ginger" group. No ing as it is today? The people have no matter what proposal the "ginger" group puts possible chance of selecting any candidate. to the A.L.P ., it would be stark raving mad Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3341 it if did not agree wi,th the amendment and That is the serious position that will say, "We will support you". All that the arise. I am telling rthe Premier now. Time members of the "ginger" group want to do is will vindicate me, as !it always does. In the seize the opportunity of putting on a Judas Committee stage of the Bill, as the result Iscariot act and walking across the floor of of collusion and cheap collaboration­ the House and voting not only against the shirt-tail collaboration-between the A.L.P. Country Party Premier and the members of and the "ginger" group, prearranged amend­ his party but also against their own Liberal ments are to be moved and supported. Party leader and deputy leader and the Mr. Chinchen: Shame! remainder of the members of the Liberal Party who are loyal to the coalition. Mr. AIKENS: To be quite candid and speaking personally, I do not care two hoots The Government will probably be brought in Hades what happens. I view my own down :vhen an amendment is put during the political future with equanimity. I am Committee stage-I suppose the first shirt­ comforted by the wonderful opening lines tail amendment will be the test-as a result of the 23rd Psalm, so I have nothing to of collaboration that has already taken place fear. In the 27 years I have been in the between the "ginger" group and members of Chamber I have seen this internal treachery the A.L.P. They have passed their proposed twice. There is an old and GJ very true amendments to each other. I could tell the saying that every party carries within itself House a great deal more about what has the seeds of its own destruction. The seed taken place. If I wanted to break a confi­ of the destruction of the Liberal Party and dence, I could tell hon. members the details the coalition Government in this House is of some of the amendments. the hon. member for Toowong. Unfortu­ nately there are members of the "ginger" What is going to happen? Af

Mr. CHINCHEN: Now it is 5 to 1. Any Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Hooper): advance on 5 to 1? This is the sort of Order! The Minister for Mines used an individual we hear speaking for his people. unparliamentary term. I ask him to with­ Mr. Camm: You tell us where you get draw it. 4 to 1 in this Bill. Mr. Camm: I do so. Mr. CHINCHEN: I am not saying it is Mr. CHINCHEN: The point that worries there; I am saying that the hon. member me in relation to this Bill is the question for Townsville South said he would be happy of disparities. I know that the Bill is an with a disparity of 4 to 1. It is for this improvement on the present situation but it reason that I say he is doing the cause of should be so. When the hon. member for democracy no good whatever. Townsville South speaks about the Liberal Mr. Camm: You speak about what the policy of 1 to 1, he does not know what Bill says. he is talking about. It is generally accepted today that consideration must be given to Mr. CI-IINCHEN: I know what the Bill the vast areas in this State. This is accepted says. It says it is to make provision for by me; it is accepted by everybody, includ­ the better distribution of electoral districts, ing the Liberal Party. but the hon. member for Townsville South says he does not mind if there is a differential Mr. Aikens: Only as an afterthought by of 4 to 1 and now he advances that to the "ginger" group. 5 to I. Mr. CIDNCHEN: The hon. member has Mr. Aikens: That is right, so long as had his say; I am now having mine. they are useful people. Of course, the question is: how far do we Mr. CHINCHEN: The hon. member has go in this matter? I think that is very had his turn to give his attitude to the pertinent indeed. The hon. member for Bill; now it is mine. Before doing so, I Townsville South does not mind 5 to 1. I should like to recall what the hon. member am inclined to think something in the for Townsville South said in regard to some vicinity of 2 to 1 or a bit more than 2 group he terms-and termed in 1964, if my to 1 would be reasonable. The basis upon memory is correct-the "ginger" group. Any­ which the question of disparity rests, of body who cares to say something a little course, is that some large areas contain fewer different from what is the going thought at people, and this is understandable. But I the moment in this place is, in his opinion, should like to make the point that I can a member of some group which he calls the well imagine that the hon. member for "ginger" group. The hon. member for Gregory, Mr. Wally Rae, would know more Townsville South said that this group has electors in his area than I would know in been in touch with the A.L.P. If he is my metropolitan electorate. referring to me, I want to tell him that he is entirely wrong. I have had no contact Strange things happen in large electorates. at all and know of none, but it may interest The Minister can visit the local meeting him-- place, which, in a small town, is usually the hotel, and there he will talk to many of 1\fr. Camm: You are only a junior mem­ his constituents. On the way from one town ber. to another he can call in at a homestead, Mr. CHINCHEN: I am a very junior and there, too, he will meet a large group member. I realise this, but it may interest of people. In addition, probably he has the the hon. member for Townsville South to columns of six or seven newspapers and read the Stop Press in today's "Te1egraph" broadcasts by two or three radio stations headed "Country Party Rejects Proposals" available to him. Each town in his electorate and reading- would have its own agricultural show or race meeting, and on visiting it he would "The Country Party's management com­ again meet a large number of people. So I mittee today rejected the A.L.P.'s elec­ have no doubt that the Minister is better toral redistribution proposals. A statement known in his electorate than is any metro­ claimed that the A.L.P. concept would politan member in his. Hov:eve:, I s.till result in 52 of 78 seats being within lOO maintain that there must be th1s d1fferent1al. miles radius of Brisbane." The only question is: how far should it go? What that is about I would not know but The criterion in deciding the issue is the it is here for him if he wants to see it. thought of the public, and at present there So far as I am concerned, I know nothing is a strong urge to reduce the disparity that of that or of any shirt-tail agreement. exists. Mr. Aikens: Then you are blind, deaf and I cannot let this occasion pass without dumb. referring to certain comments made by the hon. member for Aubigny, for whom I have Mr. Camm: If you like, I will tell you-­ a very high regard. He has ~aid that siJ?lPl.Y Mr. CIDNCHEN: I would be interested because the Bill has been mtroduced 1t IS to hear-- on its way and nobody should say a:r:tything about it at this stage. I do not thmk he Mr. Camm: You are either telling lies understood that Government members were or you're disloyal-- not aware of the details of the Bill until it Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3343

was printed and, therefore, we were obliged certain matters contained in it so that it may to vote in favour of its introduction so that be improved in the interests of the people of it could be printed. Prior to that we had no Queensland. knowledge of its details. Looking at the Bill, I have come to the conclusion that fairly Mr. P. WOOD (Toowoomba East) (4.26 large disparities will be created between p.m.): Unfortunately I must first make brief certain areas. I do not consider that dis­ reference to the remarks of the hon. member parities between provincial cities are reason­ for Townsville South who, in his usual able; nevertheless, I think that there is a fashion, has again misrepresented the views solution to the problem. The Bill is a basis of the A.L.P. Our views have been clearly on which something can be done, and it is enunciated at the introductory and second­ a great pity that time did not allow further reading stages by our Leader and other discussion prior to the introductory stage. Opposition speakers. The hon. member for Townsville South has gained the reputation Again I wish to refer to comments made of being unable to understand clear English by the hon. member for Aubigny. He is and unable to utter anything that is factual reported in the Press as complaining about or truthful. The A.L.P.'s redistribution pro­ directions given to Liberal members. posals are well known. If the hon. member Whether or not he has been correctly for Townsville South is present when we reported, I cannot say. Government mem­ move amendments, assuming that we reach bers who spoke before I rose referred to that stage, he will be proved wrong. directions. Nevertheless, it is strange that the hon. member for Aubigny then said, "If the An Opposition Member interjected. Liberal members do not vote for the Bill they Mr. P. WOOD: I am reminded that he will not receive the D.L.P.'s second will have to be in the House before 4 p.m., preferences." If that statement is not a because he does not remain here after that. direction, what is it? I am amazed by it. I If the amendments are moved on Friday he believe that the hon. member for Aubigny will not be here, either. was caught off balance when asked to com­ ment, because I do not think that the It was unusual and revealing to hear the attitude that has been attributed to him is hon. member for Townsville South adopt the that of his party. If it is, I very much regret role of advocate of the Country Party. Apart it. from the Premier, no member of the Country Party has seen fit to enter the debate. The The hon. member for Townsville South others either feel inadequate or unwilling to has referred to loyalty. I state my position do so. Not one member of the Country very clearly. Firstly, I must be loyal to my Party has risen to rally support from a electors. I represent a great number of section of the Liberal Party which seems to honest people, and I am in this Chamber be in revolt on some of the Bill's provisions. to do my best for them. Secondly, I must After all, perhaps it is not so unusual to be loyal to my party. I appreciate the broad hear the member for Townsville South come basis of Liberal principles and I have sub­ to the support of the Country Party and the scribed and always will subscribe to them. Government. Thirdly, I must be loyal to my leader. I do not think it can ever be claimed that I have Quite obviously the Bill is designed to not been loyal to him. Next, I must be favour a party which is facing political loyal to the Government parties. I claim I extinction in the long term. A long time ago have always been loyal to them; however, on there was an ungainly creature with a small this occasion I am in a strange situation head and a large beak called the pterosaur. because I was not given the opportunity in It had batlike wings and flapped about the joint party room to put forward my awkwardly, and rather aimlessly. It could point of view on the details of the Bill. I not evolve with the environment and it suf­ regret that fact very much indeed. It is fered the penalty of being unable to change wrong to require us, on seeing a measure -it became extinct. That is the position of for the first time in this Chamber, to say, the Country Party; it is today's pterosaur. "All it contains is right." It is struggling for survival in a changing world-a world in which it is ailing; a world I do not believe that certain provisions which has left it behind; and a world to in the Bill are good enough. I will which it is unable to adapt. support it, at the second reading, but I believe it can be improved. Now is Mr. Camm: Tell us something about the the time to improve it, and we must do Bill. all we can to ensure that the Bill is as good as it can be. The basis is there, but I am Mr. P. WOOD: The Country Party faces very worried about the disparities between the same fate. the provincial areas and the zones, which Mr. Camm: You have told us about a pre­ will restrict the activities of the com­ historic bird; tell us something about the missioners. I do not think it is necessary to Bill. have these provisions. The ideals that prompted this legislation can be achieved in Mr. P. WOOD: The Minister is aware of another way. I am quite happy to support the work that he has put into this Bill. He the Bill, but I hope that we may have an knows that he had to do it because the opportunity of expressing our thoughts on Country Party will eventually suffer the 3344 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill fate that befell all creatures that could not This Bill is an insult to democratic prin· change with a changing word, that is, ciples and traditions. It is designed to extinction. destroy the normal swing of the political The Bill represents a struggle by the pendulum from one end of the political Country Party to survive for a further 10 spectrum to the other. This Bill will stop years or until such time as another redis­ the pendulum altogether. It is entirely tribution becomes necessary. If it is passed cynical. Members of the Government, as well it will guarantee the Country Party survival as members of the Opposition, know what in one way or another for that period. But it the Bill is designed to do. We all know is only a postponement of the inevitable, it aims to consolidate, for at least 10 years, because the Country Party is in decline. It a fading political force. We know it aims has presided in Queensland and in the Federal to make a mockery of democracy. Yet sphere over a decline in rural prosperity. The aim of the Bill is not as stated by the Government members profess otherwise. Premier in introduction; it is simply to con­ Hon. members opposite are being hypocritical solidate the position of every sitting Country in this. Party member, and that is all it does. It is in the interests of good Government From the so-called Country Party, that a Government be not so secure that allegedly interested in rural interests, we find it believes it cannot be defeated. The best that there will be four fewer seats in country Government, irrespective of political per­ areas, or in the area outside the metropolitan suasion, is a Government whose tenure of zone. office is uncertain. Such a Government must A calculated assessment of what seats are be alert and progressive because Governments likely to be affected by the provisions of like to stay as Governments. This would the Bill leads us to believe that Bowen, not be the case if the Bill becomes law. Isis, Logan and Aubigny will no longer The dubious manoeuvrings that have taken exist after the redistribution. It is interesting place over the Bill have brought the whole to note that the hon. member for Aubigny political institution in .this State into dis­ will be happy to participate in the elimina­ repute. That is most unfortunate, as par­ tion of that electorate. The loss of those liamentary institutions are not at present four country seats will be balanced by the highly regarded, and the public is frequently creation of an extra seat in Townsville, which is a provincial city area, an extra disenchanted with the processes of Govern­ seat in the Gold Coast area, which is virtu­ ment. ally in the metropolitan area, and two extra There have been many misleading state­ seats in the metropolitan area. Not one ments made on this Bill, both internally sitting Country Party member will be affected within the coalition, and publicly. The hon. adversely by this Bill. Of course, that is member for Toowong told the House that the aim of the Bill. In addition, sitting the Bill was certainly not what he expected. Country Party members, like the hon. mem­ It was announced at the introductory stage bers for Murrumba and Burdekin, whose before the Bill was printed that, as a result positions may be threatened by changes in of its provisions, there would be three seats their electorates, have had their electorates in the provincial city of Toowoomba, in strengthened. which area I have a particular interest. That The Country Party may well hope to statement is simply not true. There will in win an additional two seats. There may be fact be very little change in the Toowoomba some competition for the extra seats in area. The three seats of which the Premier Townsville and the Gold Coast. However, spoke at the introductory stage are simply it is quite clear that the aims of the Bill the three existing seats of Toowoomba East, are to consolidate the Country ·Party, to Toowomba West and Lockyer, with some build defences around sitting Country Party shuffling of internal boundaries. I do not members whose positions may perhaps have know whether the Premier, in speaking of otherwise been threatened, and to allow for three seats in Toowoomba, was deliberately possible small expansion, not of any other misleading the House, or whether he was party, but of the Country Party. inarticulate or confused in his choice of words, as newspaper editorials have some­ There is no regard in the Bill or in any times said he is. of the 'Premier's remarks for movements of public opinion and no sympathy for I believe that there is a need for an inde· the principles of democracy. To the Country pendent commission to restore some degree Party, democracy consists of an elector cast­ of confidence in our democratic institution. ing his vote once every three years in an Achieving this will not be easy. The obvious electoral system rigged to get a predeter­ first essential is the appointment of a Supreme mined result and then remaining mute and Court judge to the chairmanship of the com­ obedient until the next election. Such a mission. Unfortunately, the Government has party has a perverted view of democracy. already so prejudiced the independence of the It seems, from listening to the debate and commission that, even if the Government reading the Bill, that the Country .Party wanted to appoint a Supreme Court judge, believes it has the divine right of rule it is likely that it would be difficult to obtain based on the opinions of a small clique the services of one. Nevertheless, I believe of conservative, narrow-minded men. that such an attempt should be made. 3345 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

I believe that all submissions made to tbe I do not think there is any doubt that electoral commission should be made public. not only members of this Assembly but also If the commission is independent, why should the Press and the other media agree that the Bill is a complete direction to the com­ not such submissions be made public? Is missioners. It eliminates any semblance of there anything to hide? Certainly the A.L.P., independence tbat a commission or com­ and individual A.L.P. members, will be taking missioners could have. On that point, I agree the opportunity to make submissions to the with the editorial that appeared in "Sunday commission, and no-one on this side of the Truth" on 21 March, 1971. It is headed House would have any objection to his sub· "Name of the game is Gerrymander". With­ missions being made public. Rather would out any doubt the Bill is a gerrymander. No we welcome it. matter which way one looks at it, the Bill Mr. Davis: Did they do that in the Federal is a direction to the commission, and the commissioners, no matter how much integrity sphere? they possess-and I am sure that they will be Mr. P. WOOD: They most certainly did. men of high integrity-by the Premier or the Political parties took the opportunity to make Government. I suppose one could call the submissions, and all those submissions were Bill a "Premier's Bill", and it does not hide published. It would be strange indeed if the the fact that it is a direction to the com­ same procedure could not be followed in mission. Queensland. If it is not to be followed in The editorial said- this State, we certainly question the motives "Over tbe next few days one of the preventing it The publishing of submissions worst examples of political collusion this would give an appearance of independence to State has ever known is almost certain to the commission which it does not now have. be pushed through Parliament." I join with Opposition members in oppos­ [ hope it is wrong in saying that it is almost ing the second reading of the Bill. It is certain; l believe it may not be. It wrong; it is unjust; and it is undemocratic. continued- I call it a status quo Bill from a status quo "It will show the rights of an entire Government. It is a Bill that seeks to make population ignored just to perpetuate a no change in electoral representation, and it party in power." comes from a Government that has always [n this case it is the Country Party, and to been afraid of change in any form. This is a lesser extent the Liberal Party, which is a conservative Government in all respects. involved. The Bill will, further, make our democratic traditions more shoddy and disreputable than It also said- the Government has already made them "Instead of Parliament deciding on the during its period of office. The Bill deserves number of seats, deciding also whether to be defeated. there will be zones with variable quotas, and then leaving the redistribution to an Mr. BROMLEY (Norman) (4.39 p.m.): Electoral Commission, it appears in this The title of the Bill will, to my way of think­ case tbat the Commission will be handed ing, go down in history as one of the greatest almost a blueprint for a redistribution." misnomers and jokes ever to come forward in this House. If one looks at its title, one That bears out exactly my words a few sees that it is, "To make provision for the moments ago, when I said that the Bill is a better distribution of electoral districts." How direction to the commission that will be set completely ludicrous it is to say that it will up. "make provision for the better distribution of Whoever wrote the editorial said that he electoral districts!" How the Premier, or the had interviewed various Government mem­ Government, can say that the Bill fits that bers, one of whom described the manoeuvring description is completely beyond me. between the Liberals and the Country Party Let us look briefly at some of the contents as a "gross denigration of our vaunted demo· and principles of the Bill. Clause 5 relates to cracy". The editorial continued- zones. Clause 6 relates to the number of "What a farce it is when members of electoral districts in respective zones. Clause Parliament are able to tell you now ..."- 7 deals with the distribution of zones into and this is what has been going on- electoral districts. Clauses 8 and 9 deal with "long before any Commission has even the appointment of commissioners and the been appointed . . . that seats like Bowen, duty of commissioners. Clause 10 deals with Tablelands and Aubigny will disappear and the basis of distribution in the metropolitan that they have not quite made up their and country zones. Clause 11 deals with the minds about Isis." basis of distribution in .the provincial city zones. Clauses 14 and 15 again deal with the think that is a disgraceful state of affairs. appointment of commissioners and their [ agree completely with the last paragraph duties, and clause 21 deals with the report by of the editorial, which reads- the commission. A great deal has been said "We say tbat people . . . not trees or about that, and much more will be said about acres . . . should be the main considera­ it before the debate ends. There is also a tion in fixing a just redistribution. We say schedule at the end of the Bill. also that it is patently wrong for any 3346 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Government to decide a virtual blueprint me", and then the Treasurer saying, "You for a redistribution before an Electoral don't need to know what is in the Bill-as Commission is even appointed." long as I get your O.K. to go ahead". Hon. members frequently criticise the Press Obviously that is the sort of thing that has for some of the comments it makes. However, happened. on the question of electoral distribution and I do not know whether the shame of this the Bill the Press has been honest, straight­ Bill will force the Liberals led by the hon. forward an_d fair in every respect, just as member for Toowong into declaring them­ the Austrahan Labour Party has been: selves. I have a great deal of respect for Nobody will ever know how the Treasurer the hon. member for Toowong. I was about could have so blatantly misled his Liberal to say "a certain number of Liberals led by colleagues into falling for the Bill. Either 'no-quarter Porter' ", which was the way he the Treasurer "conned" his parliamentary was referred to in the "Telegraph" of 8 colleagues and the Liberal executive or he June, 1966. Will the shame of this Bill was "conned" himself. Only the Treasurer force the Liberals to declare themselves? knows that, and he will not tell. In "The For the sake of the people of Queensland Courier-Mail" of 20 March, 1971, we saw and for the sake of the Liberal Party, I the headline "Lib. executive clears Chalk's sincerely hope and trust that they will have electoral plan". Obviously the Treasurer the intestinal fortitude to get to their feet went along to the Liberal executive to and say, "We are going to act in accordance submit his suggestions and plans and get its with our philosophies". I challenge them approval. Incidentally, his suggestions were to do that. those of the Premier, and they were placed According to this newspaper article, when before the State Liberal executive for clear­ the hon. member for Toowong was asked ance. In one evening he convinced the why he had switched from the organisational Liberal Party executive of the soundness of job to the parliamentary wing, he replied, the proposed plan for redistribution. "For the greater part of my adult life I have Let me remind the House that until the Bill been dedicated to the political philosophies was printed, apart from the two Country which are best embodied in the Liberal Party Party members and two Liberal Party platform, and I believe that I now best can members who have been mentioned, no serve this cause by transferring from the members knew what was in the Bill. No organisational to the parliamentary sphere". other Ministers, no other back-benchers-- Unfortunately, the principles of the hon. Mr. Chalk: That is wrong. member for Toowong, which have been enunciated quite often, have not been carried Mr. BROMLEY: The Treasurer indicates out because he has not the numbers behind that that is wrong. If we think back to him. There is no doubt that in Parliament what the hon. member for Toowong and and other places numbers are of paramount other members have said, we do not know importance. whether the Treasurer is telling the truth Everyone knows that differences of when he says that I am wrong. opinion exist among the hon. member for Mr. Chalk: I interjected when you said Toowong, the Treasurer and various other "Ministers". members, and this is supported by the article in the "Telegraph" under the name of Mr. BROMLEY: I beg the hon. gentleman's "Brian Harris", which reads- pardon. I stand corrected. Obviously it "Mr. Porter stated, 'I go into the parlia­ was the rank-and-file members of the mentary sphere to be constructive and Liberal Party who did not know anything never to be destructive'." about the contents of the Bill. That prob­ ably applies equally to the back-benchers of So I want to ask the hon. member for the Country Party. I thank the Treasurer Toowong if, on this occasion, he is going for informing me of that. to live up to those words and be constructive in that he will vote for honest, fair and just Mr. Chalk: That is not quite what you amendments to be proposed from this side said. of the House rather than those forecast by members from his own side. I put that to Mr. BROMLEY: There are a lot of other the hon. member because I believe that, at things that the Minister for Justice said that heart, he is a very sincere person. Whether have been referred to in the House today. he is sincere enough to go the whole way Later I intend to quote what other Liberal remains to be seen. I sincerely trust he is. members and Ministers have said. Mr. Hanlon: He has been running around As I said earlier, the Liberals have been showing the Bill to individual members complaining about the contents of the Bill instead of considering it as a Cabinet. ever since it was printed last week. This morning the Premier said in his second­ Mr. BROMLEY: It is like deciding to call reading speech that the A.L.P. had not put a meeting by telephone. It is like ringing forward anything constructive at the intro­ up the various members of the executive and ductory stage. That is so much balderdash. saying, "What do you think about it, Joe. We put forward our constructive thoughts, Is that O.K.?", and getting the reply, "Yes. policies and suggestions, which have been You go for your life, it will be all right with upheld by people in all walks of life and Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3347

acclaimed publicly by the Press and other Of the 32 State councillors of the Liberal media as fair and for the benefit of Queens­ Party, 30 attended the meeting at which that land as a whole. resolution was passed unanimously. It is very strange that the Treasurer did not Every interested person and every attend. interested party is well aware of our pro­ Mr. Chalk: There is nothing strange at posals which, in fact, are not completely all. dissimilar to those of the Liberal Party. Therefore, I cannot see how Liberal Pmty Mr. BROMLEY: He was either at a members. be they Ministers or otherwise, and wedding on the Gold Coast or attending to whether they signed the pledge or not­ a commitment in Lockyer. incidentally, it is rather laughable to hear Mr. Chalk: I was. I had my deputy there. the Premier demanding that they sign a pledge--could support the Bill. It makes one Mr. BROMLEY: Yes, Dr. Delamothe was there, but one other person was missing. wonder what sort of a pledge they have Whilst weddings and other commitments in signed. a member's electorate are important and must J!rlr. Davis interjected. be attended to, does not the Treasurer believe that this very important Bill should have Mr. BROMLEY: I will have something to demanded his presence at the State Council say about the Minister for Labour and meeting? After all, he is the Liberal Party Tourism later on. I thought the hon. member Leader and Deputy Premier of Queensland. was going to ask if it was a temperance Surely he should have attended the meeting pledge. The Premier did say that there would so that he could advise those who attended­ be no Bill unless they signed the pledge. but not in the way in which he advised them in the early stages when the executive, Mr. Hanlon: It is evidence of their trust according to the Press, "cleared Chalk's in each other that he wanted it in writing electoral plan". It is no wonder that the rather than take their word. Liberal and Labour members were bitter when they read the Bill. They want truth Mr. BROMLEY: That is so. I should and justice. As Mr. Speaker prays each imagine that the Premier said, "We will have morning in this Chamber, we ask for truth it signed in ink so that it cannot be rubbed and justice. out at any time." Perhaps he said, "We will have it signed in blood", to make absolutely Mr. Low: And you're getting it. sure. Mr. BROMLEY: Getting what? Mr. Casey: He wanted them to sign the Mr. Low: Honesty, truth and justice. pledge so that they would not "rat" on one another. Mr. BROMLEY: What a laugh! The hon. member cannot stand on his own two feet Mr. BROMLEY: I do not know whether and say we are getting truth and justice. they would rat on one another, but it is We are not getting truth and justice; nor strange that the Treasurer has gone along are the people of Queensland from this with this Bill when, in 1966, prior to the last gerrymander. election, he said-and there are newspaper Mr. Low: That is not so. cuttings to support this-"We must have a fair and honest redistribution." Now he is Mr. BROMLEY: Does the hon. member going back on that. feel that he should represent an electorate Mr. Chalk: No, I am not going back on it. when he knows in his own heart-when all the people of Queensland know-that the Mr. BROMLEY: The Treasurer said he is Bill is not one of justice and truth but not going back on it. I am happy to hear it. simply a gerrymander? The chairman of the Liberal Party, Mr. Over the years the Liberal and LabouT Robinson, has publicly stated-and this was Parties have asked for electoral justice. The also reported in the Press-that the Liberal Bill moves further and further away from that Party Central Executive had resolved without expressed desire and the principle of one vote, dissent- one value. The A.L.P. and the Liberal Party "That this executive is of the opinion believe that there must be a certain tolerance that the Electoral Districts Act 1971 in that principle, and the policy of the creates electoral injustice to the people of Labour Party clearly outlines that tolerance. Queensland at Country Party insistence in Members of the Country Party may deny that:- that, and some members .of the Liberal Party (a) Provincial cities are unequally will deny it, but it is undeniable that the represented. policy of both the Liberal and Labour Parties on the principle of one vote, one value is (b) Proper recognition of the rapidly­ the right one. As I have said, it provides increasing population of metropolitan for certain tolerances in the area and size areas has lacked proper consideration. of electorates. (c) The quotas of the rural electorates In passing, I remind hon. members that the are grossly disproportionate in relation Labour Party also has a policy relative to to other electorates." voters in the 18- to 20-year age group. It 3348 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

is interesting to note that, according to the displayed by the Premier. The article then Press, the Electoral Commission of Papua referred to the Premier-"Premier Hot". I and New Guinea recommended to the House do not intend to read what Dr. Delamothe of Assembly in Port Moresby that young said because I think another hon, member people be given the vote. I emphasise that. referred to it today. I realise that this matter is not covered Mr. Bennett: He used a word beginning by the Bill; I refer to it only to point out with "B", didn't he? that in New Guinea the electoral commission is given certain authority. I believe that Mr. BROMLEY: He did, and it was a Queensland's Electoral commission likewise seven or eight-letter word. should be given authority to make certain recommendations, particularly relative to I repeat that this is a gerrymander Bill. voting by people under the age of 21. Preferential voting and gerrymandering are keeping the minority coalition Government The Premier and the Liberal Party have in power, and this applies particularly to the dodged this issue. I say "Premier" advisedly Country Party. The number of votes cast because, although he has acted in conjunction at the last State election prove for all with the Country Party .bos~es .and the time which is the most popular party. The Treasurer, in effect the B11l IS h1s. The Liberal Party is more popular than the Treasurer confirmed that statement when he Country Party (which is the lowest in pop­ ;;aid that none of the back-benchers had ularity), and the Australian Labour Party seen the Bill in the early stages and, in is more popular than the Liberal and Country tact, did not know any of its details. I Parties combined. challenge the Liberals to show fight and oppose the Bill. Mr. Hungerford: That is your opinion. The infighting that took place for a con­ Mr. BROMLEY: That is my opinion, and siderable time between Cabinet, the Country it is bolstered by the number of votes cast, Party and the Liberal Party has made the as shown in the official return that was Government of Queensland the laughing tabled and ordered to be printed after the stock of Australia. Last Saturday's "Tele­ last State election. graph" dated 27 March conta}ned a_n interest­ Mr. Bennett: And your opinion is based ing article relative to the Bill which makes on evidence. me wonder what is happening amongst Cabinet members. It is headed, " 'Liar' " Mr. BROMLEY: That is so. I completely and :reads- refute the interjection by the hon. member "The Minister for Labour and Tourism, who said that it was only my opinion. It is Mr. Herbert, accused Mr. Porter (Too­ everybody's opinion because we gained 45 wong) of being a liar." per cent. of the votes compared with 44.8 Mr. Bennett: Most unparliamentary, per cent. gained by the Government parties. would say. I remind the House that the Country Party has never held power in its own right in Mr. BROMLEY: Yes, it is unparliament­ any State. That statement applies equally ary, but they can use any language they to the Liberal Party. The A.L.P. is the care to in their caucus meetings. That is only party which has received sufficient why I said I was reading the article when support from the majority of electors to I used that word. The article states- form a Government in its own right. This "The Minister for Labour and Tourism, applies not only in the State sphere but Mr. Herbert, accused Mr. Porter (Too­ in the Commonwealth sphere. Neither the wong) of being a liar when Mr. Porter Liberal Party nor the Country Party has claimed the pledge on three-cornered con­ ever formed a Government in its own right, tests primarily had been written by Mr. in either the Federal or State sphere, in Herbert." over 45 years. While we have had Liberal It is a pity there were not about eight or Prime Ministers, we have not had a Liberal nine Government members who did not Premier in this State for many years. sign it. I suppose another two or three are Mr. Chalk: Is that right? sorry that they signed it. Mr. Hanlon: Gordon reigned for about The article continues- five days. "Mr. Herbert said the document which had been signed by all except six mem­ Mr. Chalk: It is only by a little bit that bers of the joint State Government parties you are out. had been written by the Premier, Mr. Mr. BROMLEY: Yes, but it is that little bit Bjelke-Petersen and the Deputy Premier that is very often interesting and counts. and Liberal Leader, Mr. Chalk. I agree with the hon. member for Baroona "The document was submitted to the that the Deputy Premier and Treasurer did joint parties last Wednesday." reign for five days and five nights, and The ultimatum was that unless they signed it was a very wet period of five days and the pledge no Bill would be brought down. five nights. In their wisdom they thought, "We must The Treasurer and the Liberal Party do have a distribution Bill and this is the only not need the Country Party, but the Country way to get it in." They knew the stubborness Party needs them. The Liberal Party will Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bit! 3349 only ever have Ministers in the coalition; from T oowoomba East, have over the years it will never have a Premier, except an been represented by two able members who acting one. Shame on the Liberal Party if have devoted their time and energy to the it leans and relies on the Country Party welfare of the city of Toowoomba and its to remain on the Treasury Bench. Now people. The interests of the community at is the time for the Liberals to stand on large have always been of paramount import­ their own two feet, abide by their own ance to the elected representatives of the two principles and say, "We must have electoral Toowoomba electorates. The electors of justice so that the Liberal Party, which is Toowoomba know their elected members, and progressing, unlike the Country Party, which the members know their constitutents and is regressing, will have the opportunity to their requirements. .If given secretarial put its principles and philosophies forward, assistance, the two members can, and will, otherwise it will be in the political wilderness cope adequately with the demands of the for ever". people of the city of Toowoomba, even Unless the Liberal Party decides to move allowing for a population increase in the amendments or to support any honest and next few years. just amendments which we move-! do not Let us consider the position of members of include Country Party members in this the Federal Parliament. In their electorates because none of them has the intestinal they have up to 50,000 constituents. How are fortitude to vote for electoral justice-that they able to cope with the demands of that party will always remain in the political number? Each is given a full-time secretary wilderness and will never have an opportunity and an office so that he can attend to the to form a Government. wants of his constituents. I believe that It is a shame that, over the years, Queens­ State members, particularly in country areas, land has been plagued with a coalition-bed­ should be given the same facilities. From partners; a marriage of convenience-with time to time matters crop up that require each party putting forward its separate policy the urgent dispatch of letters and telegrams, at election-time. The Australian Labour and this work can be done properly only from Party asks only for a chance to govern this an office. State by a majority of votes obtained in a just and equitable redistribution. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I advise the hon. member that he is getting a little off the track Mr. BOUSEN (foowoomba West) (5.9 and is discussing matters that do not pertain p.m.): I rise to support the remarks of the to the Bill. This is a second-reading debate, Leader of the Opposition and other Opposi­ and I ask him to keep to the principles of tion members in opposition to the Bill, which, the Bill. in its present form, will not give the people of Queensland voting justice. It is nothing Mr. BOUSEN: I shall obey your ruling, more than another attempt to save the Mr. Speaker, and refer to the third seat that coalition Government. What is happening is proposed for the City of Toowoomba. now is very similar to what happened when The member elected, whoever he may be, the Margarine Act Amendment Bill was about will be torn between two loyalties. Which to be introduced. The coalition parties were section will he support? There will be conflict unable to agree on that occasion, and, as between rural and urban interests in his a result of the conflict between them, that electorate. Bill was withdrawn and has not been presented again. Mr. Sullivan: Which one? The conflicts that are apparent from time Mr. BOUSEN: The third seat in Too­ to time within the coalition parties are the woomba. Which one does the hon. gentleman result of personal ambition, and I believe think I am referring to? He came in too late they will eventually bring about the downfall to hear me say that I am not concerned in of the Government. The sooner that happens, the least. I will tell him now that both the the better it will be for the people of hon. member for Toowoomba East (Mr. Queensland, who will then have an Australian Peter Wood) and I will be here after the next Labour Party Government. As was pointed election, no matter how the Government out earlier, voting figures that have been gerrymanders the boundaries. made public from time to time show that the Mr. Sullivan: Many people who voted for Australian Labour Party is the popular party you last time are having second thoughts with the voters, as the votes cast for it out­ about doing so again. weigh the total votes cast for both the Country Party and the Liberal Party. It is Mr. BOUSEN: The Minister for Lands therefore obvious that the people of Queens­ would not know. He is worried about his land are crying out for an Australian Labour own seat of Condamine. I have spoken to Party Government. If the Government is not people in Oakey, Dalby, and other places, prepared to accept the amendments to the Bill and the hon. gentleman is as good as defeated that are to be proposed by the A.L.P., l­ already. He should not talk about anyone and, I am sure, every other member on this else. side of the House-will be quite happy to The third seat proposed for Toowoomba go to the people at the next State election under the redistribution will only bring about on the present boundaries. My electorate of a clash between rural and urban interests. Toowoomba West, and that of my colleague I should like to know how the people in the 3350 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

shires of Laidley, Gatton and Crow's Nest Mr. BOUSEN: Oh, that's nothing, I called can have interests in the City of Toowoomba. him a "scab" when he was here. How can the elected member, whoever he may be, do justice to both sections of his Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member electorate? He will have urban and rural is apt to get carried away. It is not in areas in his electorate; consequently, he will order for him to refer to another hon. not be able to do justice to both of them. member of this Chamber other than as "the In addition, I wish to refer to the gerry­ hon. member for Townsville South", or "the mander that is to take place in the cities of hon. member for Bulimba", or "the ' hon. Rockhampton and Gladstone. Although it member for Toowoomba West", or whatever is not my intention to buy into the affairs of electorate he may represent. I ask him to Rockhampton or Gladstone, I ask: how can withdraw his remark and to continue his the Government justify joining these two speech in a more restrained manner. cities and making a third seat for Rockhamp­ ton, as provided for under the zone proposed Mr. BOUSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. in the Bill, particularly when Rockhampton I withdraw the remark, seeing that it is and Gladstone are almost 100 miles apart? unacceptable to you. No-one can deny that the hon. member for Port Curtis has always given very sincere, The point I want to make is that in his able and personal representation to the speech the hon. member for Townsville people in his electorate. South said that members of the Australian Labour Party are compelled to sign a pledge Mr. Wright: I believe he has an 82 per cent. majority. that they are not members of the Communist Party. Mr. BOUSEN: That is correct. The hon. member for Rockhampton North (Mr. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The last four Thackeray) and the hon. member for Rock­ speakers have been indulging in very tedious hampton South (Mr. Wright) have also given repetition. I have been a!!owing hon. loyal service to their city and their con­ members what I consider to be a very reason­ stituents. How can the coalition Government able range in which to operate. Unfortu­ reconcile the injustice that the Bill now before nately the last four hon. members who have the House will do to the people of Rock­ spoken have harped on virtually the same hampton and Gladstone with the sincere, able thing. I do not intend to allow hon. members and personal representation that they have to indulge in tedious repetition. I therefore always had? ask the hon. member for Toowoomba West to introduce something new into the debate or Over the years there has always been con­ resume his seat. flict between Rockhampton and Gladstone, rf I may put it that way, one vieing with the Mr. BOUSEN: I do not think any previous other in the field of industrial growth. I speaker has mentioned the point I want to should mention particularly the conflict that make. has occurred relative to the provision of port facilities. The Bill will do nothing more than Mr. SPEAKER: From the lead-up to it, create further conflict between those two that certainly does not seem possible. cities. Mr. BOUSEN: I beg your pardon, Mr. Mr. Thackeray: The hon. member for Port Curtis will have to vote for both Port Alma Speaker, I did not hear you. and Gladstone. Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member referred :\1r. BOUSEN: That is right. How will the to something that has been mentioned quite Rockhampton people feel about that? The often during the debate. Government is trying to create animosity between members and the two cities in the Mr. BOUSEN: I accept your ruling. The hope that its gerrymander might bring it point I was trying to develop was that the another member after the State election next hon. member for Townsville South said that year. I am sure it will not work, as the when he was first elected to Parliament he three members who are now the elected was elected on the preference votes of the representatives of those two cities will be Communist Party. He was very proud of that returned with bumper majorities and continue fact. He was the hon. member who was to give the people the representation thev vilifying the Australian Labour Party have been used to over the years. There {s because its members had signed a pledge that no doubt in my mind that the three sitting they were not members of any other political members will be returned. The proposed party. The hon. member for Townsville gerrymander is merely an effort to create South was allowed to get away with saying a~other safe se::t for a Country Party can­ that he was elected on the preference votes of didate. That 1s how the boundaries are the Communist Party. It speaks for itself being gerrymandered today in the interests that his mouthings are only empty ones and of the coalition. made just for the want of words a.:1d for the sake of something to say. I now wish to refer to the remarks of the loud-mouth from Townsville South. Mr. Bennett: He was, too. Government Members interjected. Mr. BOUSEN: That is right. Electoral Districts Bill {30 MARCH) Electoral Districts Bill 3351

I had intended to mention something about Mr. BALDWIN: I support the arguments the absence of the Treasurer from his party's put forward by hon. members on this side conference last Saturday, but I do not want and, in the time at my disposal, I want to to engage in repetition. Suffice it to say that carry some of them a point or two further. it is rather intriguing that at a time when I look at this Bill as it is before us. I draw very important decisions were made, the your attention, Mr. Speaker, to the fact Treasurer was conspicuous by his absence. that I have previously been called to order I refer to the remark of the Minister for for mentioning particular sections of an Act. Justice that we only want to get on that side I feel as though I am caught between two of the House. Let me say that after the sides of an argument over which I have next State election we will be on that side no control. When I generalise I am called of the House as the Government of this to order, and when I particularise I am State. told it is a matter for the Committee stage. No doubt I will have to keep within the Mr. BALDWIN (Logan) (5.25 p.m.): In tight limits set by the "democratic" lot moving the second reading, the Premier was opposite. just a little less meagre in the information This Bill is designed to sectionalise the he supplied than he was at the introductory people of Queensland and to rezone them stage. This is in keeping with the general in a manner that is not conducive to the principles of operation of the Government extension of democracy. I look upon the as set out in this Bill. It is also in keeping Bill as a yoke on the necks of members on with the general activities and actions of this side of the Chamber and on the necks the Government over the last few years­ of all the people of Queensland, including activities of furtive secrecy, undemocratic our children. It is nothing more than an delay and indecent haste in introducing legis­ anti-democratic approach to the solution lation of a sectional nature to protect sec­ of modern problems. I express my abhor­ tional interests and mislead the mass of rence, hate and anguish at this instrument, the people of Queensland. which will only help to bring about a further In this Bill the Government's real role fragmentation of democracy in this State and has at last been unmasked for all to see. thereby render it more vulnerable to foreign The Premier skirted around or ignored the penetration and domination. I will resist just challenges to the few principles that the Bill with all the forces at my command. he offered at the outset. This is because The Premier has said that the Bill fulfils, he has become more adept at, and engages in an honest and logical fashion, the demo­ more frequently in, political acrobatics. This cratic wishes of the people of Queensland. frantic Government refuses to face up to How could he make such an outrageous the seriousness of its position by maintaining claim? what it is setting out to maintain in this Bill, namely, a facade of great "ignore". Mr. SPEAKER: Order! There is too much The Premier and those few who helped audible conversation on my left. Opposi­ him have set out in this Bill to deliberately tion members are only interrupting one ignore the real wants and needs of electoral of their own members. redistribution in this State. Now that the Mr. BALDWIN: How can the Premier Bill is before us, this is clearly revealed as make such an outrageous claim, in the light a last-ditch stand by a languishing Govern­ of the fact that some of the details of the ment. Our leader very ably answered, point Bill relative to directions to the electoral by point, the few arguments advanced by the commission have already been spilled in the Premier. It was he who, in his reply, Press? For example, the schedule sets out had to set the people of this State on the the zones that will be created. The Premier right track. says that it fulfils the democratic wishes of The paucity of originality in facing this the people of this State, yet not even all his important problem of redistribution and the own members knew about it; not 10 per cent. pusillanimity of the 'Premier's argument in of the people left in the Country Party trying to justify his sectional weaknesses knew about it; and not five per cent. of the as revealed in this Bill appear to be deliber­ people who the Premier claims are his ately contrived to attempt to limit the field supporters knew about it. for our leader to manoeuvre in. But, as usual, the limits were broken through by the Mr. Davies: Some of the members had Government's weakness, as indicated by its not even seen it. Ministers and the .Press releases that their Mr. BALDWIN: That is right. I do not public relations men have sometimes to make know why everybody could not have seen in a vain attempt at giving the appearance this very important measure long ago. As of earning their salaries. I said at the introductory stage, the Bill Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Again an hon. represents a last-ditch, desperate swipe bv member who is speaking is wandering com­ the Government to remove the last vestige pletely off the track. This Bill has nothing of democracy under its tottering Country to do with anyone's salary. It deals entirely Party edifice. with electoral redistribution. The hon. Now that the drapes are off, we find our­ member will please confine his remarks to selves looking at the logical conclusion of the matter before the House. minority Government. It is nothing more 3352 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

than an imposition of undemocratic principles "double-jobbing" to earn a crust that they on the people of Queensland, who are crying do not have time to study the problem. They out for the extension of democracy. I agree leave it to us to do that and, as was said with my leader, who drew an analogy between by another Opposition member this moming, the present situation in Queensland and that the more that happens, the more problems we in Germany in the 1930's. Both are gov­ have to solve which should be avoided by ernment by a minority. I would not mind good legislation, and the less we do as betting that those Government members who legislators to help solve their long-term and have helped the Premier got most of their general problems. ideas from "Mein Kampf". I imagine from reading the BiB and com­ It is interesting to compare what can result paring it with the South Australian elector~! from the Bill with the report made by the commission's report that some voters m South Australian electoral commission in South Australia could possibly be in three 1969. Of course, there is nothing in the or four areas. In Queensland, it will be Bill to suggest that we will receive anything possible for a voter t? l~ve !n many J?Ore Eke the document published by the South areas than that. He w1ll hve m one regwnal Australian commission. That is understand­ planning area, one industrial planning area, able in the light of the behind-the-scenes one police area, one ambulance area, one secrecy, as revealed in the Press, that is fire-brigade area, one subdivisiona! area, one favoured by the Government. We have read local government area, one State Govern­ that the decisions as to redistribution have ment area and one Federal area. That is already been made; therefore, the com­ eight diff~rent areas. How can he know mission will be nothing other than a rubber where he is? That is being done deliberately stamp. The Premier has answered questions to sow more confusion. If this Bill is passed, relative to the composition of the com­ the Government will reap the result in the m1sswn. If it is not composed in a manner long run. We on this side will make sure different from that indicated by him, it will of that. be merely a rubber stamp. One provision in the legislation provides On page 7 of the South Australian elec­ how numbers will be arrived at for zones as toral commission's report, the boundaries are at a certain date. This number is to be dearly defined by the commission. No such divided by the number of electorates, and thing is happening in Queensland. Here, the electoral officer will sign the certificate. the boundaries and zones are clearly defined In the 1969 election we had example after for the commission. In South Australia the example of ridiculous happenings on the boundaries as defined followed closely those rolls. Unbelievable situations arose. One defined by South Australian Government page of the Logan electoral rol~ disclosed departments, such as the metropolitan plann­ a fantastic situation. A housewife's name ing committees, the industrial development appeared on the bottom of one page of the committees and the local government division roll which was obviously printed by some and subdivisions. profiteering, hurry-up private company und~r contract printing, but her husband's name d1d There is some evidence in the Bill presented not appear on the next page although the by the Premier that the last-mentioned could couple had lived in the same house, the same happen here. If by some tragic occurrence street and the same district for 10 years. the Bill is passed in its present form in the In those circumstances the Government is light of the Government's attitude I' do not asking us to have faith in the rolls that are ~ee that i~ will even keep to what is provided to be compiled, after taking the police off m the Bill. On what has been revealed in the job of checking them. Who will be asked the "Gold Coast Bulletin" and other papers to do this work? More police when we do my fears are borne out. I think of th~ not have them? I foresee that thousands of horrible statement about three Gold Coast names will be left off rolls deliberately. Most electorates covering the area from the border of the people whose names are left off rolls to the I;og

this Government is brought down in the Great Dividing Range. What will happen crash and the welter it deserves with this to the country electorates or regions which undemocratic document with which it has are just over the range? The Premier is had the temerity to insult the intelligence probably forsaking Callide because the A.L.P. of members on this side of the House and candidate in the previous election, Mr. the people of this State. It is a wild concoc­ Charlie Tutt, conducted an excellent cam­ tion of confusion. paign and took the Country Party candidate to preferences. I understand that Mr. Terry Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton South) Melloy will be standing for Callide in the (5.41 p.m.): Many points have been raised forthcoming election, so apparently the and I do not intend to recanvass them at Country Party is willing to forsake that seat this late stage of the debate. I think it is and that member. well accepted now that this Bill will result in a gerrymander. There is not much The commission has also been put into a argument about that among members of strait-jacket with quotas. The Central the Opposition and the "ginger" groupers Queensland area has 36,000 electors. The of the Liberal Party. This is an attempt area will be divided into three electorates. to retain the Country Party as the senior This gives a quota of approximately 12,000. member of the coalition. It is apparent, from This will bind the commission. It will have what is contained in the Bill, that the Country no choice except with the tolerance of Party is prepared to do anything to retain one-fifth. this position. In Ipswich there are 32,000 people, and it This is a Bill of revenge. It is a vendetta. is to be divided into two electorates. Mary­ It is the plan or the goal of the Premier and borough has 18,000 people, and it is to be the Country Party to recapture seats lost only one electorate. Quotas are confined to by the Government since 1957. One has only numbers to be set down not by the commis­ to consider the seats that it intends to destroy. sion but by the Government. There will be They include Logan, Tablelands and Isis, quotas of approximately 12,000 in Central which were won from the Country Party Queensland, 16,000 in the Ipswich area, and by Labour after tremendous campaigns. The 18,000 in Maryborough. Country Party is also determined to do some­ I find, futhermore, that the commission is thing about those of us who captured seats hamstrung by the matters set out in the Bill from Liberal members, and I refer to myself for consideration in drawing boundaries. The in Rockhampton South and the hon. member terms of reference given in the Bill are, I for Toowoomba East. Judging by this, the believe, complete proof that the Bill is a hon. member for Albert should watch out gerrymander. One has only to look at the for his head. It is no wonder that he has various points raised and, in considering decided to run for the Senate. Central Queensland, see how many can be The Bill incorporates a desire to destroy applied to the existing boundaries. It is other seats which are potentially dangerous known that the new area of Central Queens­ to the Government. They include Townsville land will include the old electorate of Port North, which is held by the Deputy Leader Curtis (which takes in Gladstone), Mt. of the Opposition. He has shown that he Morgan, Calliope, Division 1 of the Fitzroy can tear the Government apart any time Shire, and the municipality of Rockhampton. be wishes, and the Country Party is deter­ One reason given for a combining of elec­ mined to do something about him. torates is a community of interest. I ask the Furthermore, the Bill is nothing more than Premier what community of interest Glad­ a strait-jacket for the commission. This is the stone and Rockhampton have. They are 80 part I wish to emphasise today. The commis­ miles apart. It may be said that there are sion has very little room to move. It has means of communication between the two very little tolerance. The tolerance of centres, and no doubt one reason given for one-fifth applies to the metropolitan and combining them will be the road connecting provincial areas. It is not mandatory in the Gladstone and Rockhampton. I think that country regions, and it is no wonder, because that is a very poor reason for combining the that is the area where the Country Party two centres. One then goes to a consideration has its strength. This is the area it wishes of physical features. There are no physical to retain. It must capture all of these seats features tying Rockhampton and Gladstone if it is to remain the senior partner. There­ together. Whether it be boundaries of local fore it is natural that it would not bind authorities, distances from the seat of Gov­ the commission in any way which would be ernment, density of population, or demo­ detrimental to itself. It is no wonder that graphic trends, there is no reason set out in members of the public, Opposition members, the terms of reference to substantiate tying and members of the "ginger" group Gladstone to Rockhampton. claim that this is no more than a blatant There are further reasons for stating that gerrymander. the proposed distribution will be a gerry­ The tolerance of one-fifth is also binding mander. The Premier said initially, and on those seats in the country areas that are during his second-reading speech, that the not west of the Great Dividing Range. There proposed redistribution is based on previous must be some reason for this. But we do redistributions. I take hon. members' minds not expect the Premier to tell us why. He back to the 1958 redistribution, when the intends to protect those areas west of the Rockhampton North boundary was taken 3354 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH) Electoral Districts Bill

across the river into the electorate now "Members of the coalition parties have known as Rockhampton South. I point out persistently taunted members of the A.L.P. that it is impossible for the hon. member for as being puppets triggered off by the Rockhampton North to go into his electorate Q.C.E. and have claimed just as per­ on the other side of the river without passing sistently that they were not subject to any through the electorate of Rockhampton such dictation or direction. They have South. He cannot get to his electorate on the also claimed, just as persistently, that they southern side of the river without passing firmly believe that Parliament should not through mine. Yet we are led to believe that be subject to direction from any outside this is not a gerrymander! body. Do members of these parties believe I believe that there are no community that this vital democratic principle should interests, no means of communication, and prevail only when a Labour Government is no physical features to justify the grouping in power?" together of the electorates of Port Curtis, Despite the fact that the hon. member for Rockhampton North and Rockhampton Wavell, for whom I have a very high regard South. I believe that my fear that this is a and who has been very helpful to me during gerrymander is not unfounded, and I con­ my illness, and the hon. member for Too­ clude by quoting these words from the wong have stated quite clearly that there editorial in today's "Australian"- was no direction, they did say that they were "Whatever their faults, Queenslanders told certain things, that they were given deserve an electoral system that is better certain advice. "Methinks they do protest than that proposed by Mr. Bjelke-Petersen." overmuch," and I cannot really see that Mr. DIPLOCK (Aubigny) (5.48 p.m.): This there is a great difference between being told is the first time I have made a speech in the and being directed; there is hairline difference. House since my illness, and until last week­ My statement continued- end I certainly had no intention of speaking "The legislation before Parliament passed on this Bill. I issued a statement that has been the first-reading stage and nobody crossed twisted, torn and misrepresented, and I have the floor of the House. Since, there has also received a couple of calls from reporters been a Liberal Party Council meeting, representing Brisbane newspapers. One of directions have been issued-members them stated that I would vote with the Gov­ 'protesteth too much' to convince anyone ernment because of an arrangement that I that this is not the case-and I have had with the Premier and the Deputy Premier been informed that if members do not cross that, if I voted with the Government, the the floor they will not be endorsed for Aubigny electorate would be retained. the next State election. Mr. Bennett: The Premier said you made "These members are certainly on the an agreement along those lines. horns of a dilemma, because if they do Mr. DIPLOCK: I say quite definitely that cross I, personally, shall do everything anyone who suggests that I have even spoken possible"- to the Premier or .the Deputy Premier on this here I am not speaking for the whole of the matter is telling a downright lie, and if either D.L.P., because the Federal leader of the the Premier or Deputy Premier says that I party is in Melbourne- approached him in connection with the elec­ "to ensure that they will not receive the torate of Aubigny, he, too, will be telling a official blessing of the D.L.P. in regard to downright lie. preferences at the next State election--" Mr. Tucker: Did you speak to the Press? Mr. Tucker: Surely you are now .trying Mr. DIPLOCK: The Press rang me and to direct. You are doing the very thing you asked me whether I was going to vote with deplore. You yourself are trying to direct. the Government because of an arrangement I had with the Premier and the Deputy Mr. DIPLOCK: I am not trying to direct. Premier, and I told them that that was a Mr. Tucker: You are. downright lie. I reiterate that assertion. The statement that I issued was this- Mr. SPEAKER: Order! "Surely there can be no doubt about my Mr. Bennett: Are you speaking for .the thoughts in connection with the actions of whole of the D.L.P. in this House? members of the Government parties when the redistribution Bill again comes before Mr. DIPLOCK: I am speaking for the the House. I have always believed that leader, the deputy leader and the whip of the in a democracy, Parliament, the elected D.L.P. in this House. representatives of the people, should not Mr. Bennett: You are it! be subject to the directions of any outside organisation. Many of my colleagues in Mr. DIPLOCK: Yes. the Labour Government led by Senator Mr. Tucker: You are trying to intimidate; V. C. Gair were prepared to make great you are trying to blackmail. sacrifices to ensure that this democratic principle would prevail, and I shall never Mr. DIPLOCK: The hon. member can be a party to any action which would mean take it from me that he will never intimidate that their sacrifices were made in vain. me in any way. Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Ministerial Statement 3355

Mr. Tucker: There is no way in the world and without these, in some cases, the I will "cop" it from you. endorsement of their Party will be of little value." Mr. DIPLOCK: The hon. member will never intimidate me, and I might give him a When the hon. member for South Brisbane little bit of a fright in Townsville. asked me if I was speaking for the D.L.P., I mentioned-! think, Mr. Speaker, you will Mr. Tucker: You've tried that four times, give me credit for this-that I had not too. consulted the Federal leader of the party. Mr. DIPLOCK: No, I have not. Mr. Bennett: You shouldn't have to, either. Opposition Members interjected. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member Mr. DIPLOCK: My statement to the for Townsville North and the hon. member Press continued- for South Brisbane are very noisy in their "Aftcr consultation with members of interjections. I will not tolerate it. I do the State Executive, I am confident that not want to have to name anyone, but I this will be the official view of the D.L.P ., will have no hesitation in doing so if they because the principle that these members continue to interject. will be prepared to sacrifice is one which Mr. TUCKER: I rise to a point of order. the D.L.P. will always fight to preserve." It is sheer blackmail-- Opposition Members interjected. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

!VIr. SPEAKER: Order! REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE PROBLEM OF THE CROWN-OF-THORNS STARFISH Mr. TUCKER: I am rising on a point of order. The hon. member for Aubigny Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah threatened me a moment ago. He said, "I -Premier) (5.58 p.m.): Professor Walsh, might have a go at you in Townsville." That chairman of the Joint Commonwealth/State is a threat-and it is blackmail, too. committee which inquired into the problems Opposition 1\fembers interjected. of the crown-of-thorns starfish on the Great Barrier Reef, handed to me last Thursday Mr. SPEAKER: Order! the committee's report. This was the first occasion on which a Mr. DIPLOCK: That is not a threat, it is a promise. common problem has been the subject of a joint Commonwealth/Queensland committee Mr. Tucker: You don't even have the of inquiry. The committee itself has carried backing of your party. out a most extensive inquiry and has provided a very clear and concise summary of the Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Will the hon. present situation. member for Aubigny please resume his seat for a moment. The committee has concluded that the crown-of-thorns starfish does not constitute Hon. members, I am issuing a last warning. a threat to the Great Barrier Reef as a insist that when an hon. member is on his whole, nor does it pose any danger of sub­ feet he must enjoy the same attention in stantial erosion to the physical structure of the the House as any other hon. member. I reef or any threat to the Queensland coast­ shall not tolerate the noisy interjections of line or ports. the hon. member for Townsville North, the hon. member for South Brisbane, or the hon. The report emphasises that, whilst there member for Mourilyan, who came in at has been serious damage to coral on some the last. I warn those hon. members very reefs between the latitudes of Cairns and seriously that I will deal with them if they Townsville, this damage was not uniform. continue in that strain. Consequently, any reports based on the extrapolation of such damage to whole reefs Mr. BENNETT: I rise to a point of or to major areas of the Great Barrier Reef order. I do not know why you should have would be misleading. to warn me, Mr. Speaker. Since you issued The committee was unable to determine your first order I have not said one word. whether the high numbers of starfish found Mr. SPEAKER: I was simply reminding in some areas is a unique or cyclical event, the hon. member. but considers that the evidence is in favour of its being an episodic event which may Mr. DlPLOCK: So that there is no have occurred previously. mistake in "Hansard" about what I gave to The report stated that reef-building was a the Press, I will repeat what I said- continuous process of growth and destruc­ 'These members are certainly on the tion of organisms, including coral and algae. horns of a dilemma, because if they do Consolidation of the dead material into the cross, I, personally, shall do everything pos­ reef mass provides the platform necessary sible to ensure that they will not receive for the continuation of this process. In this the official blessing of the D.L.P. in regard context, the feeding by the crown-of-thorns to preferences at the next State election, starfish on living coral constitutes, in the 3356 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill long term, portion of the destruction by speech delivered by the Leader of the Opposi­ natural forces within the reef-building tion this morning, in which he more or process. less said that the A.L.P. did not want The committee also found that tourist redistribution. activity on the Great Barrier Reef had not declined as a result of damage to coral by the Mr. HOUSTON: I rise to a point of order. starfish, nor had the weights of commercial The hon. member said that in my speech fish landed in the Cairns-Townsville region I said that I did not want redistribution. changed significantly during the past five That is completely untrue and is offensive to years. me. I point out that I clearly indicated at the introductory stage that we wanted No finding was made by the committee as redistribution. to the cause of population increases in some areas. The report examines the various Mr. SPEAKER: Order! theories which have been put forward. The collecting of the giant triton shell, to which i\'lr. WHARTON: I withdraw the statement much publicity was given as the cause, and say that the Leader of the Opposition merited no support by the committee. The has repeatedly demanded redistribution and committee's own tests would seem to rule out has tried to embarrass the Government by pesticides as a prime cause. pointing out how important and urgent it is, yet what is his attitude when we introduce The committee considers that any attempt a Bill to provide for redistribution? I to reduce the numbers of the crown-of-thorns personally query whether he wants the Bill. starfish on the Great Barrier Reef as a whole That is my opinion. is unwarranted at the present time, but that, on certain reefs or portions of reefs which The Bill itself is a fairly simple one. It have social or commercial importance, sets out that there shall be 78 members manual destruction of accessible starfish may in the Parliament for which 78 electoral be feasible. districts shall be provided. I am intrigued to know whether the Leader of the Opposi­ The committee has recommended that the tion and his party want 78 seats. I wonder State and Commonwealth jointly meet the what they are grizzling about. We bring cost of continuing and expanding the present down a redistribution Bill and they do not programme of investigation and research at want it; we provide for the 78 seats that they a cost of from $90,000 to $120,000 a year, have demanded and they do not want that. and that this amount be increased by $20,000 in each of the two following years. The Bill provides for three zones, namely, It stressed in the report that this research metropolitan, provincial cities and rural. It should be implemented as soon as possible sets out that there shall be 30 electorates in because of the opportunity that now exists to the metropolitan zone, but it does not define study the reefs being damaged by the star­ those electorates. That is a matter for the fish and to observe the recovery of reefs. electoral commission that will be appointed. It will be its duty to divide up the zones and Cabinet has agreed to the committee's set the boundaries and limits within them. recommendations, and advice has been received from the Prime Minister that the Mr. Davies interjected. Commonwealth has likewise agreed. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The report very clearly vindicates the stand taken by the Government, and must Mr. WHARTON: I have pointed out that raise serious doubts as to the competence of the Bill provides for a metropolitan zone to those who attempted to spread a picture of be divided into 30 seats. The electoral com­ gloom and desolation. mission will delineate the boundaries and In conclusion, I feel I should commend divide the areas into electoral districts. That this State's fisheries biologists for their is fair enough. That is its job. The Bill does common sense and objective advice tendered not say anywhere that certain seats shall or to the Government on this matter, which has shall not be eliminated. now been confirmed by the committee. Mr. Wright: Oh, cut it out. I lay upon the table of the House a copy Mr. WHARTON: Show me that anywhere of the Report of the Committee on the in the Bill. Problem of the Crown-of-thorns Starfish and move- Mr. Wright interjected. "That the report be printed." Mr. WHARTON: I am talking about the Motion agreed to. metropolitan zone. [Sitting suspended from 6.4 to 7.15 p.rn.] Mr. Bennett: Have you signed the pledge yet? ELECTORAL DISTRICTS BILL :Mr. WHARTON: I do not need to. Dealing SECOND READING--RESUMPTION OF DEBATE with seats in the provincial cities zone, there are 20 of these and their boundaries are set Mr. WHARTON (Burnett) (7.15 p.m.): I out. I think that is a clear indication that rise to comment briefly on the Bill before the boundaries resolve themselves and I the House. I was puzzled by the lengthy cannot see much in it to quibble about. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH} Electoral Districts Bill 3357

Members of the Opposition have talked been accused by the hon. member for of numbers. My electorate contains 10,130 Townsville South of dishonour; and even people, and in it each year I travel between the Leader of the Opposition spoke about 30,000 or 40,000 miles. Yet the Bundaberg honour and pledges. I think he said all electorate contains approximately 15,000 men are honourable until they fall from people, and Maryborough contains 11,000 grace. people. In beginning my remarks I should like Mr. Davies: 12,000. to quote from "Julius Caesar", and the quotation is a very apt one. Mr. W.HARTON: All right, I will say 12,000. The hon. member for Maryborough Mr. Casey: "Even you, Brutus"? is always skiting about being a great member. Dr. DELAMOTHE: For the benefit of From the way he talks he should be repre­ our half-baked school-teachers. I should like senting at least 30,000 people. As I have to quote an extract from Shakespeare-"For said, in my electorate I travel between Brutus is an honourable man; so are they 30,000 and 40,000 miles each year to serve all honourable men". 10,000 people, so wouldn't I be happy just to sit around in Bourbong Street and cater We have heard talk of pledges. Last for 16,000 electors or more? And wouldn't week I pledged my support to the Premier, I like to sit round in Maryborough and as I have on many an occasion, and I not be required to travel far? I am merely propose to stand by that pledge. Let no-one making the point that members of the dishonour me. I have been accused of Opposition are talking a lot of rot when they criticising the Premier. Of course I have refer to servicing numbers of people. criticised him; but, being the man that he is, that makes no difference. Mr. Bennett: Wait till Jim Blake gets on your hammer; you'll do more than 30,000 We have also heard a lot about gerry­ or 40,000 miles then. manders. In all the speeches by Labour members I noticed a wistfulness that they Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Before the dinner were not in the position to carry out what recess I warned the hon. member for South has marked any redistribution carried out Brisbane. I am giving him a final warning by the A.L.P., that is, gerrymander after now. If there are any further interruptions gerrymander. I remind hon. members of a loud nature from him I will have to opposite of the situation that obtained under deal with him. the 1949 redistribution. We then had a system of four zones. Mr. WHARTON: I am merely saying that the Opposition talk of representing An Opposition Member interjected. numbers does not hold water at all. Dr. DELAMOTHE: For goodness sake, The Bill provides that 28 seats will be dumb one, be dumb! established in the country zone. This, too, is a matter for the electoral commission. We had four zones then, yet today A.L.P. The members of the commission have a job members are criticising the zonal system. to do, and nowhere does the Bill say, as They have also criticised the disparity has been alleged, that certain electorates will between electorates. Let me point out some be eliminated or added to or renamed. The of the disparities in the 1957 election. country zone has been defined as containing Chermside had 18,483 voters, Mt. Gravatt 28 seats. and it is a matter for the commis­ 28,289, and Charters Towers 4,400. I heard sion to· set out those seats. Why should an Opposition member today refer to a we not leave that job to the members of disparity of 3-to-1. I have instanced a 7-to-1 the commission? disparity. One might think one was at the trots, Albion Park or Doomben. That is a Mr. P. Wood: I'll bet you know what very good price, and it is about the right your electorate is. price for the A.L.P.; it is an outsider's price. In the electorate of Sherwood there were Mr. WHARTON: I do not know at all; 19,000 voters, and in Brisbane, an A.L.P. that is a matter entirely for the electoral seat, there were 8,000 voters. It is quite commission, and I shall leave it to the revealing that the largest number of voters comm1sswn. I have some respect for its were all in seats held by Liberals. It is members, which is more than the hon. obvious that, in the redistribution, the A.L.P. member has. gerrymandered every possible Liberal vote As I have said, the Bill is clear cut and into those three electorates. leaves to the electoral commission the responsibility of dividing the State of Today, the Leader of the Opposition Queensland into 78 seats. adopted quite a different line from that of his introductory speech, as did every other mem­ Hon. P. R. DELAMOTHE (Bowen­ ber of the Opposition. At the introductory Minister for Justice) (7.23 p.m.): I have stage we heard tirade after tirade accusing spent a lot of time today listening to the the Leader of the Liberal Party of having words "honour" and "dishonour" being hoodwinked the Premier and of producing a bandied about. The Government has been Liberal redistribution. Today all the accused by the Opposition of dishonour; "galoots" on the other side of the House have members of the so-called "ginger" group have changed their tune. Instead of the Leader 108 3358 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill of the Liberal Party being accused of hood­ Dr. DELAMOTHE: I do not wonder it winking the Premier, the Premier was accused sickens the hon. member. It certainly of hoodwinking the Leader of the Liberal sickens me. Party. When the Government started to carry out Opposition Members interjected. its election promise of redistribution in the light of the increase of 130,000 in electors Dr. DELAMOTHE: I do not care what since 1960, and when the people became Opposition members think, but for goodness aware of the A.L.P. suggestwn, there was sake let them make up their minds and for a cry from the country, from North Queens­ land and from the West, and what did two days in succession think the same way­ Labour do? It departed completely from its if they are ready to think at all. original suggestion and is now quite happy As the contents of the Bill have been to have nine western electorates w1th sufficiently canvassed, I propose to canvas, 8,000-odd voters and 69 coastal electorates with 12,000-odd. the A.L.P.'s alternative suggestion. It is no secret; it has been well advertised. Labour Mr. Casey: The A.L.P. holds more western wants 67 seats-- seats than the Liberals. Mr. O'Donnell: We want 69. Dr. DELAMOTHE: Keep quiet and listen. Little boys should be seen and not heard. Dr. DELAMOTHE: I thank the hon. mem­ That is what my mother taught me when ber. I was small. Labour wants 69 seats in what it calls the eastern or coastal zone, which is about 20 These nine western seats are to have a miles wide, and nine seats in the West. quota equal to two-thirds that of the coastal Despite Labour's tender regard for the seats. Where is this great banging of drums expansion in population, obviously Opposi­ by the A.L.P. about one vote, one value? tion members have not the faintest idea I do not wonder that it has done this. .I where the population increases have occurred. said it at the introductory stage and It bears repeating. It advocates-! could almost For their edification, I will explain what has say "nine little nigger boys", but I shall happened. In the metropolitan district, that keep that quotation until later-nine little is, within the boundaries of the City of seats of 8,000, little Labour pocket boroughs, Brisbane, the increase in the last 10 years the same as it had when it last had an has been 48,000-odd; in the provincial cities opportunity to do a redistribution,. when we it has been 24,000-odd. In the country it has been 56,000-odd. had 10 little nigger boys, or 1.0 ht~le pocket boroughs, in the West rangmg m votmg Mr. Casey: You are calling Woodridge the strength from 4,400 to 5,500. The. A!--.P. "country". was not game to go quite as low th1s tlm~. It thinks that if it says 8,000, the pubhc Dr. DELAMOTHE: If we adopt that, will not be a wake-up. But I am here to Woodridge has 3,811 voters, so we can put tell the public what it di? before and what them into the metropolis if the hon. member it would like to do agam. so wishes. In the city, the increase in popula­ tion was 48,000 and outside the city the Let us see how the Government proposals increase was 80,000-odd. in this Bill compare with the result that would come from Labour's suggestions. The What do we find? In the small area Government's proposals are t~at there. should within a radius of about 100 miles of the be 30 seats in the metropohtan regiOn, 20 city, with this great spread of population­ in the provincial cities, five in the western we have been accused of turning our backs region (of which the Labour Pa~ty holds on the changing population-the A.L.P. pro­ three), and 23 in the country r~giOn. T~e poses, in its gerrymander, to concentrate 52 A.L.P.'s well-publicised suggestion . WOlLd out of the 78 seats-- result in the metropolitan area havmg 30 seats, and provincial cities 14. I _Pause for Mr. Houston interjected. a moment to compare 14 seats w1th the 20 provided by the Government. These seats Dr. DELAMOTHE: If the Leader of the are in the centres where there have been Opposition keeps quiet, he will be educated. the greatest population in~reases. .There The A.L.P. proposal is for 69 coastal would be nine, compared with five, . m the seats and nine western seats. The nine western areas, and 25, compa~ed w1th ~3, western seats are to have a quota of 8,500 in country areas. The A.L..P. s suggestion and the 69 coastal seats are to have a would mean a complete negatiOn of electoral quota of 12,600. For years we have been justice to people outside a radius of 100 hearing from the A.L.P. the call for one miles from Bnsbane. vote, one value. The A.L.P. claims that the Apart from questions of honour and way to do a redistribution is to divide the dishonour, we also listened this morning to 78 seats into the population of Queensland an attack on the courts by the Leader of the and so arrive at a quota of 12,000-odd. I have heard that cry ad nauseam ever since Opposition. He said . that people felt they I entered Parliament. could get justice only If they knew a .member of Parliament. One of the firm pillars of Mr. O'Donnell interjected. this democratic society is the fact that the Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3359

courts are above suspicion, and are not sub­ closely the great decentralised development ject to influence from anyone. I defy any of cities situated many miles from Brisbane. Opposition member to produce evidence to Hon. members opposite can think only of back up what was said by the Leader of the Brisbane or of the area within 100 miles of Opposition. it, and those who represent country elector­ ates ought to be ashamed of themselves. Mr. HOUSTON: I rise to a point of order. I do not mind the Minister's rambling on, The Australian Labour Party conveniently but I must point out that I used the word forgets that the policy of this Government is "justice" in the administrative sense. The to watch the growth of provincial cities. Minister knows that full well. If he does not, Under this redistribution it is recommended he must have been spending too much of his for example, that as Townsville has out­ time in other places. grown the convenient size for two seats, and is now up to about the size of 2t seats, some of Dr. DELAMOTHE: I took a note of what the surrounding country should be included the Leader of the Opposition said. He said, so that Townsville can be divided into three word for word, "In the courts, only political seats. We have done the same thing with influence counts". the Gold Coast and Toowoomba. When the next redistribution is made, and as other Mr. HOUSTON: That is completely provincial cities continue to grow, we will untrue. I ask for a complete withdrawal. take extra areas from around, say, Bundaberg Dr. DELAMOTHE: I will withdraw, but and Maryborough, and build up extra seats. I recommend to the Leader of the Opposition Performance is what counts, not promises. that he read the "pull" of his speech We have done that. We did it in 1958, we tomorrow. are doing it now, and we will continue to do Mr. Houdon: I will; don't worry about it. The forward-looking performance of th::tt. the Government is quite foreign to the thinking of the A.L.P., which in its proposal, Dr. DELAMOTHE: After hearing that has accumulated 52 seats within 100 miles of sort of allegation this morning, we listened Brisbane. this afternoon to the hon. member for Logan Listening to the hon. member for Norman, making the accusation that the electoral rolls are faked. one would have thought that for a moment he had forgotten his membership of the A.L.P. Mr. BALDWIN: I rise to a point of order. Running through his speech was the nostalgic I did not use the word "faked". I said they sort of sentiment that he, as a city man, would are erroneous. like to give the provincial cities something more than the 14 seats that they have today Dr. DELAMOTHE: I accept the intimation or that that they would have under the by the hon. member for Logan that there is A.L.P. One could sense that were he free a distinction without a difference. to express his real, innermost thoughts, he Opposition Members interjected. would have said, "I thoroughly approve of giving the provincial cities 20 seats because of Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member their greatly increased population". for Mourilyan has been warned once. Country members of the A.L.P. have not Dr. DELAMOTHE: Running through the raised their voices at all. It was the hon. speeches of Opposition members there has member for Norman who raised a faint been a bitter, and ignorant, complaint about whisper of dissent to the A.L.P. gerrymander differences in quotas in various provincial that would have stolen seats from the country cities. They quite forget that the policy of and from the, provincial cities to make a ,thts Government has been that as provincial small compact area from which the A.L.P. cities grow, as Townsville, Toowoomba and thinks it could control Queensland. Of the Gold Coast have grown-- course, wishful thinking and building castles Mr. .Hou§,ton: What about Maryborough? in the air is the prerogative of the juvenile and the adolescent. It is not that Opposition Ik DELAMOTHE: The Leader of the members are juvenile or adolescent in age, Opposition quoted erroneous figures for but they are in political knowledge and the lVlaryborough. I was trying to save his face. capacity to judge popular feeling. 'V!r • .Houston: What are the figures? Listening to the A.L.P. today, one would have thought that one was almost in heaven Dr. DELAMOTHE: 11,000-odd, and or, at least, in a large cathedral. It was 4,000-odd in the shire of Burrum. The almost like the sound of angels singing. The Leader of the Opposition can obtain these attitude of hon. members opposite all day figures from the Library. has made one feel that one was in a large Mr. Houston: That was in 1952. cathedral with all the voices singing in unison, "We are holier than thou". I wonder just Dr. DELAMOTHE: It was in 1969. There how holy they are. Adversity makes strange were complaints about differences in quotas bedfellows. In adveristy they have been between provincial cities. Those who make for years; in adversity they will remain, and such _complaints quite forget that the policy they are clutching at any straw, any support of this Government has been to watch very or help, from any direction, to work their way 3360 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill out of their adverse position. I am afraid legislation was conceived in secrecy because they will be sorely disappointed. When many of the Cabinet Ministers admitted that they go to bed tonight they will be saying they did not even know what was in the to themselves, "What went wrong? We Bill before it was printed. The Premier was thought we had it in the bag." What went the father of the legislation, and the Treasurer wrong, of course, was what I said at the will soon be left to carry the baby. beginning and what I finish with, and I Mr. Chalk: Who is the mother? quote Shakespeare again, "Brutus is an hon­ ourable man." Yes, we are all honourable Mr. TUCKER: You can work that out men. for yourself. Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) (7.46 Mr. Chalk: I'm a bit suspicious about the p.m.) : The hon. member for Bowen identifies baby. himself with Mark Antony, who was, I Mr. TUCKER: You will probably find believe, one of the greatest political hypocrites out what happened and how you got that in history. Of course it is meet that he should way. do so; we are in agreement with him. This evening the hon. member used the Mr. SPEAKER: Order! words, "half-baked school-teachers", "galoots", Mr. TUCKER: We have come to expect and "adolescents" when referring to the political contortions and distortions from the Opposition. I want to say that the quack father of this legislation. We remember what from Bowen seeks desperately this evening happened on liquor, oil, gambling and taxa­ to cement his job as Agent-General in London tion. The only occasion on which the and it was pitiful to watch him acting as architect of this legislation was beaten was a political "twit" and simpering as a craven when the High Court gave a certain decision coward. -but there is no High Court here ,tonight. Dr. Delamothe: It must have hurt a bit, The Premier is the man for whom the Perc; you are screaming and bleeding. Treasurer has sold out his Liberal principles. This is the man for whom the Treasurer has Mr. TUCKER: Today, as we are debating abandoned his party, in an attempt to sup­ this Bill, Queensland is a democratic joke port him. He has sold out and abandoned within the Australian nation. Every Aus­ his party. tralian newspaper today condemned this Government. "The Courier-Mail" contains on Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Would the hon. page 2 a very biting cartoon by McCrae member get back to the BilL over the caption, "It's a Socialist-Liberal Mr. TUCKER: I believe that this is part plot to impose Democracy on the electors!" and parcel of the Bill. This is very unusual for "The Courier-Mail". Judging from that cartoon there is no doubt Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I will have to about what this newspaper thinks or where insist on hon: members keeping to the Bill it stands in regard to this redistribution Bill. from now on. I have had enough of this wandering round the ridges, if I might use This great State of Queensland, the third the vernacular. largest in Australia, is being treated as a public joke because of the undemocratic Mr. TUCKER: I wish somebody had desires of the Premier and his deputies. These stopped the Minister for Justice from wander­ people fawn on the Japanese and the ing round the ridges. For the whole time Americans, but at the same time, under this he was on his feet he attacked us and did Bill, deny Queensland people, the rightful not once talk about the Bill. With all owners of the assets they are giving away, a due respect to you, Mr. Speaker, I think just say in the administration of the State. I have the right to reply to him. If he is allowed to speak about the Opposition in Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: You are showing your that vein, surely the Opposition has every Socialist trends again. right to speak about the Government in the Mr. TUCKER: I never run away from same way. those. There is no argument about this, The legislation is without conscience­ but I will show some of the Premier's trends let me say that-and seeks to deny demo­ tonight as I go along, if he stays in here cracy instead of promoting it. It reeks long enough to hear them. of political favouritism and political trickery. This legislation comes to us per medium of The tricks contained in the Bill have been the Premier, and he and the Treasurer are amply revealed today by the Leader of the the architects of it. It has been stated today Opposition in his very fine speech. As well, that they were supposedly-although I know the Bill is contemptuous of the treasured it has been denied outside-told to get rights of the great majority of the people together and produce this legislation. There­ of Queensland. fore, the Premier and the Treasurer are It was denounced by the Liberal State architects of the Bill. Although they are the Council at a meeting last week-end, when architects, the Cabinet is their rubber stamp it was said that it was repugnant to the and the Country Party today is the beneficiary Liberal Party and the great majority of the while the Liberal Party is the loser. The Liberal supporters. As well, it was denounced Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3361

by the Liberal State executive. It makes Liberal Party? What has happened to all the a mockery of the principles that have been members who talked about one vote, one laid down by the Liberal State Convention. value? Yet, incredibly, the Treasurer is prepared to Op,position M.embers interjected. sell his party's soul for the benefit of the Country Party. Members of the Opposition Mr. Hinl'e: You will be at it yourself. are compelled to congratulate those members Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I am warning the of the Liberal Party who have today defended hon. member for South Coast. the principles of the Liberal Party, as all of us know them to be, and condemned Mr. TUCKER: It is worth repeating that this iniquitous piece of political manipulation. tiny Burketown, up near .the Gulf of Carpen­ taria, will be classified as a provincial ci.ty. Why should the Premier, whom Dr. Dela­ Only a political comedian could classifY mothe described as "hot" and "stubborn", be Burketown as a provincial city. Keeping in allowed to introduce this Bill, which will mind the classification of Burketown, I draw warp our electoral system, undermine our attention to North Mackay, which is just democratic way of life, and deny tens of across the bridge from the centre of the City thousands of Queenslanders their rightful of Mackay. It is classified as a country say in the administration of this State? I electorate. How anybody in his right mind say advisedly that if the Bill is passed it could justify such a gerrymander, I do not will make the gerrymander of the last 12 know, yet it is in the Bill before us. years look like milk and water, and, just as tens of thousands of people were denied Is it any wonder that the Australian Labour their rightful say over the past 12 years Party is doing everythi_ng in its pow.er to in the administration of this State, so, too, prevent the Bill from bemg passed? Is It any will just as many people be denied their wonder that we smile in derision when it is rightful say today. claimed that this is a good redistribution Bill? Of course, North Mackay has been Under the Bill the seat qf the Deputy classified in this way as a matter of political Leader of the Liberal Party is to be sacrificed, expediency, to l

From Loders Creek to the Logan The hours are running out for the Liberal River also north, almost to the boun­ Party. I appeal to every thinking member daries of Brisbane. of the Government to leave the Premier and "Under this plan the present seat of Deputy Premier to their unenvied reward, Logan will be eliminated and the last whatever it may be. I do not believe that of the three seats I have mentioned will any person who is capable of bringing legis­ be a new electorate. lation such as this Bill before the House "Part of the present Logan seat will could be respected by the great majority go into a Brisbane 'fringe' electorate and of the people of Queensland. I ask Govern­ the rest, of course, will come completely ment members tonight to think of Queens­ under the Gold Coast umbrella." land, and vote as Queenslanders. I do not reflect for one moment on the Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister editor of this paper. I believe he obtained for Mines and Main Roads) (8.8 p.m.): that information from the hon. member Although I have listened all day to con­ for South Coast and no-one else. The hon. tributions from the other side of the House member will no doubt deny it, but I believe on the second reading of the Bill, I have that he gave the editor that news, and so far not heard any concrete proposal to as far as he knew it was true information. improve it. Perhaps at the Committee stage There could be no argument about that. we will hear amendments moved by the What a disgrace! Here are seats beina Opposition, in conjunction with the "ginger" settled and yet the commission has not bee; group on this side. I have not heard from appointed. It makes a mockery of this anv speaker on this side of the House, either, independent commission. any concrete proposal to improve the pro­ posed redistribution. We cannot trust the Country Party. This has been demonstrated to us time and time We have heard frequent comments about again. In addition, we cannot trust a the disparity in voting strengths in various section of the Liberal Party. This Bill electorates. Some hon. members will quote this undemocratic document, should b~ the voting strength in electorates such as defeated outright or at least drastically Mt. Gravatt and Salisbury, and they will amended. I urge all members of the Liberal then refer to small electorates far out in Party to think, act, and vote as loyal the West. Such disparities constitute the Queenslanders. very reason why a redistribution Bill has been introduced. We on this side of the When SJ?eaki.ng of the Liberal Party, I House realise that the drift of population do not thmk It hurts to remind members in various parts of the State has produced that the Liberal Party has had some great cli

districts over the years until the stage was We have had to do this because of the reached where they formed their own small decision to retain a limit of 78 seats. One local authority to look after their local of the conditions, we found, was that the affairs. That is why we in the Country Party metropolitan area had to have 30 seats despite feel that the boundaries of electorates in the fact that it had th'l smallest increase in Queensland are best described by using local the number of voters. In fact, the metro­ authority boundaries or divisions, or com­ politan electorates either showed the largest binations of divisions, if the whole local drop in the number of electors in Queensland authority is too large. or had the smallest increase. As a matter of The Premier, as Leader of the Country fact, the largest increase in population, on a Party, and I were given the sole and unfet­ percentage basis, has been in the country tered right by our organisation and our zones. The next largest increase is in the parliamentary colleagues to negotiate with provincial cities and, on a percentage basis, the Leader and the Deputy Leader of the the smallest increase has been in the metro­ Liberal Party, who we felt also had the politan area. confidence of their parliarnentary colleagues. As I said earlier, it is very difficult to l still believe they have the confidence of effect a redistribution when two of the con­ the majority of their parliamentary col­ ditions are that there shall be only 78 seats leagues. We also felt that they had the -no increase whatever-and that the area right to speak for the Liberal executive, that has enjoyed the lowest percentage because everything that the Premier and I increase in population or has suffered the advanced in the redistribution discussion was largest reduction in the number of voters what we knew would happen. We did not shall have two extra seats. Where do they have to report to anyone. This was the come from? There was only one place from redistribution that we were given power to which they could come and that was out of undertake. This is the way we went into the the country areas, yet hon. members opposite discussion based on three zones-metro­ politan, provincial cities, and country. were prepared to sacrifice the people in the country electorates to pander to the people Let us have a look at the position that of this city. That is what they are doing. exists at the present time. We have heard speaker after speaker talking about the In the proposal that has been advanced increase in population in the Brisbane area. by the A.L.P., and condoned by a few mem­ In the present metropolitan area there are bers on this side of the House, the result 28 seats, 13 of which have a reduced voting would have been fewer electorates in the strength compared with what they had in country districts of the State. Under the the last redistribution in 1958. In the provisions of this Bill there will be, within country area we have 38 electorates, only 10 100 miles of Brisbane, 43 members of Par­ of which have a reduced number of voters. liament representing that small area. Three Those 10 are mostly in the far-western and other electorates-Gympie, Warwick and south-western areas. Of the 12 provincial Aubigny-will be substantially within that city electorates only one, Rockhampton lOO-mile radius, yet hon. members opposite South, has fewer voters, and that has been

There has been a lot of talk about not feel happy with the fact that at least Toowoomba East and Toowoomba West. three country electorates are to be wiped Someone asked why we put Lockyer into out in this redistribution. The only feeling that area. The population of the Lockyer of satisfaction I have is that if hon. members area has not increased even to the extent on the other side of the House had had that Toowoomba's has-and the population charge of the redistribution, five or six coun­ of Toowoomba has not increased to any great try seats would have been wiped out. Under degree. Bearing in mind that the greater Labour's redistribution, 52 seats were to be part of Lockyer was originally part of the within 100 miles of Brisbane. Where would Toowoomba electorate-- Labour get them other than from the outlying Mr. Bousen: It was not. areas of Queensland? Mr. CAMM: Yes, it was. The Treasurer Mr. Houston: You can't add up. came into Parliament with part of Lockyer Mr. CAMM: I can still calculate the in his area. It was therefore decided that difference between 43 and 52. the Lockyer electorate should be incorporated in a provincial city zone based on Too­ Mr. Houston: You can't add up. That's woomba. your whole trouble. Coming to .the Gold Coast area, do tbe Mr. CAMM: The hon. gentleman doesn't people of that area still want to remain know what is in his scheme, let alone in country electorates? Do not hon. members what is in the Bill. think that the Gold Coast area has reached the stage in its development where the An Opposition Member interjected. people desire to be classed as a provincial Mr. CAMM: You say you have not got a city zone in the Gold Coast area? redistribution? Mr. Baldwin: Did you ask the people of Mr. Houston: You have not seen our fore­ Beenleigh? shadowed amendments. You admitted that Mr. CAMM: They will be ''in" it. when you stood up to speak. The hon. member for Logan spoke about Mr. CAMM: This has been bandied his seat being obliterated. I do not see around the hallways of Parliament House all how it can have been. There are still day and you have been talking for months to be three electorates between Brisbane and on what you would do. the border. Because of the population Mr. Houston: That is not true at all. growth in that area, I envisage that there will still be three because we have three Mr. CAMM: You have had two goes. seats in the area of the city of Gold Coast. Where have we wiped out a seat in that Mr. SPEAKER: Order! area? Mr. HOUSTON: I rise to a point of order. Mr. Houston interjected. If the statement made by the Minister is true, someone in the Public Service has done some­ Mr. CAMM: The Leader of the Opposition thing wrong, because the official Opposition says we should give the Gold Coast another amendments did not leave my hands until seat. Where can we get seats to give away? late this afternoon and, if they have been What is the hon. gentleman .talking about? bandied around Parliament House, I want He claimed that the number of electorates to know how the Minister got them. in Brisbane should be increased. He also claimed that we should have 52 seats within Mr. CAMM: I picked this document up on 100 miles of Brisbane, and then he says, the floor in one of the corridors. It is headed, "Why not give the Gold Coast another "Electoral Districts Bill. Amendments to be seat?" moved in Committee by J. W. Houston M.L.A." We also picked up one which was Mr. Houston: I did not. ostensibly the work of the "ginger" group Mr. CAMM: Why did not the hon. gentle­ on this side of the House. I said earlier that man, like his predecessor, say that the popula­ I had evidence that there was some conniving tion of the State has grown to such an and collaboration in the corridors by one extent that the people are entitled to another or two on this side of the House and the four or five parliamentary representatives? Leader of the Opposition and, I think, the If he had said .that, there would have been hon. member for Baroona. Anybody who another seat on the Gold Coast and another reads these two documents and compares seat as well in the northern area of Brisbane. them with the official one handed out a few But he backed the views of some members minutes ago will find, in this one, the main of the other political party. I am not amendments to be moved by the A.L.P. criticising their views; those members wanted Mr. Houston: You said a while ago that 78 seats, which we have incorporated in you did not have ours. the Bill. It would be quite simple to have a redistribution and give extra seats here Mr. CAMM: To Jay a little trap. One of and there where we think they are justified. the members associated with this one from I honestly believe that the people are just­ the "ginger" group was there and I said to ified in having another seat in the South him, "How silly can you be? In this docu­ Coast area. I assure the House that I do ment of yours you have the electorate of 3366 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Barcoo in the eastern division. You did not When the management committee of the have time to alter your stencil for the one Country Party appointed the Premier and me, that has been issued officially and somebody as parliamentary leaders of the party, to has conveniently crossed out, in ink, the take charge of redistribution negotiations, electorate of Barcoo." That indicated to me our parliamentary colleagues endorsed the that there was a definite connection between decision of the management committee and these two and the official one that has been said, in effect, "Yes, we have the utmost faith issued. How naive can some persons be? If in you. You can carry out the negotiations they want to engage in skulduggery in this on redistribution based on the principles of part of the world, they should remember the Count1y Party." Since the Premier and I that some of the boys from the bush were were given that responsibility, not one word pinching paddy calves before they learnt to of criticism has been uttered by our organisa­ walk. tional wing. Prior to our appointment, it It has been claimed that we have ham­ had the right to criticise some of the views strung the commission before its appoint­ that had been advanced by our coalition ment, and that we have more or less told it partner and the A.L.P., but, since the power where the boundaries shall be. All we have to negotiate was given to the Premier and me, done is to set out that there shall be 30 not one word of criticism has emanated from seats in the metropolitan area. I will wager the organisational wing of the Country Party, now that before the commission has finished nor have we been told what we should do. delineating the boundaries for the metro­ politan area, it has a submission from the There has also been no criticism from A.L.P. setting out where the boundaries any member of the Country Party in this should be. House of the Premier or me over anything that we have done in respect of the Bill. Mr. O'Donnell: We have got that right. We have enjoyed the complete loyalty that Mr. CAMM: They have the right, of we have come to expect as members of a course. And we have given the commission political party. I cannot say the same for the the right to fix the boundaries in the metro­ Liberal Party representatives who negotiated politan area. We have done the same in the the Bill with us. No-one knows more than I country area. We have indicated that it is do the tremendous amount of work that they desired that the country areas follow more did on this Bill, and the many hours that or less the local authority boundaries they spent negotiating with us. wherever possible, because it is easy to Mr. Wright: Don't shed tears. incorporate and explain that principle in a Bill. Mr. CAMM: The hon. member for Rock­ hampton South will never have the Mr. Inch interjected. opportunity of shedding tears. He has not Mr. CAMM: The hon. member would be yet grown up sufficiently for that. He would just drawing lines and would not know where not appreciate what a hard day's work is. he was. I have a lot of respect for school-teachers I listened with interest to many Opposi­ and the work that they do, but the hon. tion members and Government members. I member's conduct brings home to me the do not think it is necessary for me, nor old saying that among men school-teachers is it my responsibility, to reply to some of are only boys. That applies to the hon. the allegations made by them. I prefer to member for Rockhampton South. reply in broad outline rather than in detail. Mr. O'Donnell: The Queensland Teachers' Ther<' is one thing that has struck me in this Union will have something to say about that. game of politics. It is quite a simple thing. When a person aspires to be a member of Mr. CAMM: I am referring to only one Parliament, under our present system of person. All that the hon. member is illus­ government, which is a party system, he trating now is a boyish reaction. I said that chooses the party that he feels will be able to I have the utmost respect for the teaching do the best for the people. He becomes a profession and many of the teachers in this member of that party, and he works for it. State. I am talking about one person. But He takes advantage of the reputation that if the hon. member, in his boyish exuberance the party has built up over the years in a and outlook, wants to take the side of the particular part of Queensland, which could be hon. member for Rockhampton South, then the electorate for which he desires to stand. let him put himself alongside him. He accepts assistance from party men and Now let me finish what I was saying. It women who give their time voluntarily with distresses me to know that the Leader and no thought of reward other than the satis­ Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party, with faction of serving the State of Queensland. He whom the Premier and I negotiated this accepts finance from the party when he stands redistribution Bill, have not received the as a candidate for Parliament. Surely then, complete support of their colleagues. I am when such people assemble in this House quite sure that the Leader and Deputy Leader with others belonging to the same political of the Liberal Party are not entirely satisfied party, one of the first necessities of party with what is contained in the Bill, and government is loyalty to the principles of would prefer to have incorporated in it more the party for which they stand, and loyalty to Liberal Party principles. They certainly its members. fought hard enough to gain them. The Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3367

Premier and I, too, were not entirely satisfied, that I have in the past spoken as my con­ because we would like to have more Country science dictated. I have found it necessary Party principles embodied in the Bill. to speak and vote against the Government. I make no secret of the fact that I would As you know, Mr. Speaker, I have crossed like the Bill to provide for 82 seats. In that the floor. I am mindful that members have way the country people of the State could at least credited me with having the courage receive their just entitlement of full repre­ of my convictions. I feel that it is necessary sentation in this Chamber. I do not enjoy on this occasion, because of the gravity of having to tell them that I was a party to a the situation, to outline frankly and succinctly redistribution Bill that will defranchise three some of the aspects leading up to the present electorates. As I indicated earlier, the only circumstances and the introduction of the solace I have in this regard is that if Opposi­ Bill. tion members had had the right to frame the Mr. Sherri~ton: Do you say that your Bill, not three but at least five country Leader sold you down the drain? electorates would have been obliterated by them. lVk. HUGHES: No. I know that the Leader of the Liberal Mr. Beuneti interjected. Party intends to speak. Even though we had hard words many times, I should like to place Mr. HUGHES: If the hon. member for on record the fact that I do appreciate the South Brisbane had any grey matter, it would frankness that he and his deputy extended to require a search party to find it as he does the Premier, myself and Sir Harold Richter not speak with any intelligence at all, and in the negotiations that took place before the then we could use that search party to help Bill could be framed. I know that he and the Police Force to clean up all the unsolved his political organisation would wish the Bill crimes. to be a little different from what it is. I, too, would like that, but to my mind this is the Bearing in mind what I have said, I will best compromise we could come up with. It deal analytically and as succinctly as possible is a Bill that I think will work for the better­ with the circumstances associated with this ment of the State; it is one that I am quite Bill. confident the people of Queensland will Negotiations between the party organisa­ accept as a reasonable redi&tribution, taking tions commenced in May, 1970, and for into consideration where the growth of seven or eight months a deadlock existed population has occurred during the last 10 between them in respect of major principles years. associated with redistribution proposals. As I understand it, the Country Party then Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) (8.41 p.m.): I decided that there would have to be a council speak to this Bill with a sad and rather heavy meeting to decide its attitude. This brought heart because we are dealing with a very the matter to 20 January when the Premier grave situation which the Press, on more than was delegated certain authority by the one occasion, by its banner headlines, has Country Party. On 28 February, on the blown up to one of crisis proportions. There initiation of Mr. Chalk, the Premier agreed have been times when in fact each and every to further discussions and asked that another one of us concerned with this vital measure person from the Liberal Party be present. has been troubled about all aspects of the On 2 March Mr. Chalk wrote asking the matter. It has not been considered without a Liberal Party Executive to nominate some­ great deal of emotion and, on many occa­ body to fill that position, and the president sions, heat generated from personal ideas replied nominating the party secretary to voiced in debate. the very important task oi negotiation. I have been not exactly in tears but acutely conscious of the effect of my words I believe that the manner in which this and the further actions I may take this Bill has been handled, at least over the last evening. The Bill, as we now know it and few months. leaves much to be desired. In see it before us, is being debated in what has my view the Premier has shown a callous been described as an atmosphere of crisis. and shocking disregard for the need for Although normally I would accept and relish urgent and very meaningful negotiations, interjections-! do not mind this in the parry, bearing in mind the urgency and gravity of thrust and cut of debate-I am sure that hon. the situation. The Premier has caused members will appreciate that on an occasion delays which, I believe, have prejudiced such as this I will not be particularly inter­ proper and fruitful consideration and negotia­ ested in any inane interjections. tions which, of necessity, had to ensue. The House is entitled to knovl', of course, Mr. Sherrington: Did you sign his pledge? where l stand on this matter. More particu­ larly the people whom I have the honour to Mr. HUGHES: Yes, I signed an under­ represent are entitled to know where I stand. taking-! will deal with that in a minute­ Before tonight I have spelt out in clearest just as the hon. member has signed under­ terms my views on certain matters, and I am takings to accept directions from outside, prepared to do so tonight. The people I from the Kremlin, the Q.C.E. In effect, represent are entitled to know my views he and other members of his party have because, firstly, I represent people and, become puppets that dance every time the secondly, I represent my party. Because of Q.C.E. pulls the strings. 3368 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Mr. SHERRINGTON: I rise to a point intractable. Last year the Liberal Party of order. What the hon. member for Kurilpa Executive indicated its attitude to these says is entirely untrue; it is offensive to me negotiations. Parliamentary members of the and I ask for an unqualified withdrawal. Liberal Party discussed principles of redistri­ If he is not prepared to do that, let him bution and were prepared to compromise, come outside and say it. inasmuch as they were interested in fairness and justice. They realised that they could Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Hooper): not have everything the way they wanted it, Order! The hon. member for Salisbury has but at least they had room to compromise, denied the allegations made by the hon. and they were prepared to do that. member for Kurilpa and asks him to with­ draw them. I stated in a certain place that my vote would follow certain lines, the criteria being Mr. HUGHES: To enable me to continue electoral justice and a complete consideration my speech, under Standing Orders I am of the public interest. I qualify my support obliged to withdraw. for the Bill by saying that it should not create any grave and glaring disparities in Opposition Members interjected. electoral quotas, as between electorates, Mr. HUGHES: I withdra"'. May I except, of course, in the western rural zone. continue by saying that I can quote from I think most hon. members agree that Labour's own red book-not the Red Book because of the features associated with the of Mao or the thoughts of Chairman Mao. western rural zone it deserves special con­ What did Mr. Walsh, one of their own sideration. I appreciate this and concede it. beloved members at one stage, have to say? All of these factors involved in western rural He was a champion of their cause in this zones should receive, and no doubt will be House and, when he was Treasurer, one of given, special treatment. However, what is their revered leaders, until they dumped him. specified in the Bill is not what I voted for. Quoting from page 36 of "Hansard" of 11 It negates two great principles: voters' June, 1957, Mr. Walsh had this to say- equality with tolerance in rural areas, and redistribution must take into account growth "I am not going to quote it from memory and redevelopment. but from the Constitution and General Rules of the Australian Labour Party. To return to a recital in chronological On page 98 we find- order of the events that have led up to this 'Pledge of State Candidate. stage, I point out that the organisational person was appointed on 4 March, yet it 'E:::ch candidate shall, prior to the was not until 11 M arch that the first meeting taking of a ballot or prior to securing took place. The Liberals have always taken recognition as a Labor Candidate sign the initiative, and the Premier has stalled, the following Pledge: delayed, and played a game of political "I ...... H. being a Candidate for brinkmanship. He has played this dangerous selection by the Labor Party's recog­ game right up to this minute, and I shall nised Political Organisation in the expand on this. The most recent example Electorate, hereby give my of this was last Wednesday. The events that Pledge that if not selected I will not occurred at a certain party meeting last in any way oppose the Candidature Wednesday are now public knowledge. I of the duly selected Nominee; and, have not breached secrecy and I do not leak if selected, I will go through with information to the Press. I am not breaching the contest. I agree, if elected, to party-room secrecy on this occasion, because advocate and support the Principles others before me have stated certain things contained in the Australian Labor in other places and they are now public Party's Federal, State and Local knowledge. Government Platforms."' " The Premier bluntly stated that there Mr. Sherrington interjected. would not be a Bill unless the executive of Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I ask the Liberal Party gave an undertaking on the hon. member for Salisbury to contain three-cornered contests. It was impossible to give that undertaking because the execu­ himself. tive of the Liberal Party is not the master of Mr. HUGHES: I know the truth hurts. the Liberal Party and all who belong to it. We on this side at least have demonstrated, The convention of the Liberal Party controls as we will no doubt do this evening, that we its policy, platform and destinies. The execu­ are entitled and allowed to speak as our tive could be likened to a board of directors, conscience dictates and vote as we desire, who follow the policy dictated by the share­ because, firstly, we represent people. We are holders. It was not technically or constitu­ not subjected to the dictation of outside tionally possible for the executive of my parties, as the Labour Party is, but our party to give the undertaking that was negotiators were placed in an intolerable demanded by the Premier. position. As I have said, the Treasurer and Mr. Aikens: Is there anything about three­ the Minister for Justice had a job to do and cornered contests in the Bill? they did it to the best of their ability, but at all times they have been placed in an Mr. HUGHES: As the hon. member would intolerable position and been prejudiced. The know, it does not prescribe who shall or Premier has been adamant; he has been shall not stand or who may or may not stand. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3369

I know that he is singularly interested in public indignation at the fighting and war­ Townsville, because he considers the whole ring between two parties associated with of Queensland revolves around Townsville. three-cornered .contests and, in retrospect, He refers to his "beloved North" and says, I must admit I believe there would have 'To hell with anything outside of Towns­ been a greater degree of harmony between ville". the two parties had there not been so many Mr. Aikens: The whole of Townsville three-cornered contests. They led to much revolves around me. personal abuse and bitterness. Mr. HUGHES: That's modesty for you. Mr. Aikens: Don't you really think that If the hon. member's bike ever broke down, the public has been concerned at the split his constituents would not have a repre­ in the Liberal Party? sentative and city life would stop. Mr. HUGHES: I do not know of any Mr. Bennett: Look at the Premier prosti­ split in the Liberal Party. Members of the tuting his soul now! Liberal Party are entitled to, and do, express their sentiments and vote as they see fit, Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Hooper): according to conscience, but 'that does not Order! mean a split in the party. Mr. HUGHES: The Premier is master of I know that the public wants fairness, his own destiny. I am not my brother's electoral justice and electoral redistribution keeper. legislation that is clearly above suspicion. Convention, which makes policy, cannot On those principles I shall voice my senti­ have policy on the books of the party ments and exercise my vote. altered until a further convention makes We require a unified front against our such a decision. It was not competent for common political enemy, the A.L.P. We the executive to say anything in relation cannot afford the luxury of infighting which to three-cornered contests. The brinkman­ three-cornered contests produce. We cannot ship, and this type of stubbornness, as I and should not fight in this way. The people see it, of the Premier brought a pledge want us as a Government to be purposeful from members, as the only way by which and objective; they want us to get on with we could see a Bill. The Premier was the job of governing Queensland. No-one prepared to forego an election promise unless is 100 per cent. correct, and I have never he got an organisational pledge, simply to met a person who is infallible, but this protect those interests to which he sub­ Government, even with its failings and mis­ scribes. I believe that undertaking has nothing takes from time to time, has done so much to do with this 'Parliament. However, there for the State that it has earned the approba­ were members who, being cognisant of the tion of the people who have returned it need, of public interest and other things, on so many occasions. I believe that, on were prepared to quell emotions and take that basis, it will be returned again to the heat out of the then situation, in order the administrative benches of the House to overcome the crisis. A number of at the next election. parliamentary members signed an undertaking I believe that the Government has earned as individuals that they would not work this. We can see development, the tapping against a sitting member. I signed it and of our mineral resources, and how this I make no apology for doing so. Over the State contributes more per capita than any years, I had expressed an interest in three­ other State to the economy of Australia. cornered contests. I had not opposed them It has laboured because of problems in the generally because I believed there could rural area, lack of finance, and problems be some benefit to both parties against our with Canberra. The Treasurer has had to common political enemy, .the Australian fight valiantly and, in the main, has won. Labour 'Party. We still have not all we need, but all these Mr. Aikens: With whom are you going to things, collectively, show that this State and vote later on? our standard of living have progressed. Our development cannot be emulated by other Mr. HUGHES: I vote as my conscience States. We have the investment capital and dictates. Maybe they will vote with me. we have the people coming here. Queens­ Having signed this, I make no apology land and Western Australia have prospered for it. I will honour my pledge because and developed more than the other States. while I held certain beliefs in those times There is no need to apologise for our that it would be beneficial, I saw that it stewardship. led to infighting, wrangling, lessening of public support, and lowering of our esteem Mr. F. P. Moore interjected. in the eyes of the electors at large, and Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Hooper): that it has not been as benefidal as claimed. Order! The hon. member for Mourilyan has I will honour my pledge regardless of any been warned by Mr. Speaker, and I warn results or consequences. him again. The Chair will decide when I do not think there will be any con­ a member is outside the ambit o:t' the dis­ sequences as far as the Liberal 'Party is cussion. A tremendous amount of leniency concerned because it does not direct its has been allowed to both sides of the House. members. I believe that there has been I ask the hon. member to contain himself. 3370 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Mr. HUGHES: There is little doubt that pledge to uphold and carry out the we have the confidence of the people of decisions of the Labour Convention has this State, for two reasons. We have shown the right to repudiate that pledge when it that this State is developing at a rate which suits him or them to do so. gratifies the public, and the people could not possibly trust an outside-dominated 'There is only one decision to reach on A.L.P. to run Queensland. I am sure the that matter-whether you like it or not, public will bear this in mind at the polls whether it is wise or unwise, the course to in future. That is why the A.L.P. has been take is to endorse the official Labour in the political wilderness for years, and I decision." wish it many happy years in Opposition. Let us not have any more of this political I signed the document relating to three­ hypocrisy and sophistry from the Leader of cornered contests. I did so for what I the Opposition, who tries to fool this House believed to be the public benefit. I will and the public by wailing, "This is unprece­ honour that pledge. As a consequence of dented. Never before have we seen members this action by Government members, the of Parliament sign such an :cssurance." What Bill was introduced. It was a matter of political hypocrisy that is! In "Hansard", in either signing the pledge or having no Bill. the Press, and in documentation form there To prove that there is no direction in the is proof that what the Leader of the Opposi­ Liberal Party, I point out that those who tion has said is complete hypocrisy. His signed the pledge have not been censured by memory is conveniently short, because it the Liberal Party. In fact, the party's would be his wish that such things had never council meeting carried a vote that there happened. Right or wrong, wise or unwise, he should be no censure. I did not vote for still bows to the dictates of the outside or against the motion dealing with this officials of the A. L.P. He still toes the line. matter at the council meeting because I did He is not in the position of Liberal Party not want to vote in defence of myself. members, who are able to vote and speak as they see fit. I speak tonight to champion the cause of fairness and justice in electoral redistribu­ I saw the Bill on Thursday, after it had tion, and the principles of such. The Leader been printed; when the Bill was distributed, of the Opposition made a great outcry regard­ I learnt of its contents for the first time. I ing the pledge. He said it was the first retain all my rights, as a member representing time that members of Parliament had been the people, to speak and vote on all aspects requested to give such an assurance. This of the Bill, and I do wish to express concern is not true. It is quite obvious that his at a number of its clauses. I emphasise that memory is conveniently short. I take his I am not a "Chalk" man or a "Porter" man, mind back to April and May of 1957, when nor am I a member of the so-called "ginger" such a pledge was signed. The Press of group. At all times, as all hon. members the day reported- know, I have had the courage of my convic­ "Caucus, Cabinet back Premier. Break­ tions to speak and vote as I have felt. I away bid to-day if Gair sacked by will not accept dictation from the Liberal Q.C.E." Party executive, and I am not under any dictation. As I have said, the Liberal Party Gair was being expelled by the Q.C.E. does not dictate to its parliamentary members. because he would not bow to the dictates of If it did, they would revolt. that body. The then Deputy Premier and Minister for Transport (Honourable J. E. The Bill provides for a redistribution that Duggan) said- leaves very little work for the commission to "There is only one decision to reach do. It ties the hands of the commissioners to on the matter. Whether you like it or a very great extent by actually determining not, whether it. is wise or unwise, the the boundaries of electorates, which it does course to take Is to endorse the official by prescribing one-seat zones. It is inherently Labour decision." bad for Parliament to determine the boun­ daries of a number of individual and specially Ever since then, this has damned every selected seats. We should not do this. This, member of the Labour Party who takes a in my opinion, is a job for the commission. pledge, signs away his rights, and buries I believe that amendments to clause 5 will be his conscience for political expediency in needed to overcome what might be described the form of a seat in this House. as a blatant "Bjelke-mander". To quote him more fully, Mr. Duggan There are also instances of glaring dispari­ said- ties in quotas. There seems to be no like­ ."T~ere . is one principle, and only one with-like with quotas. I exclude western rural pnnctple mvolved, and that is whether the areas, where I believe there is need for constitutionally established and recognised special consideration. But there should not authority of the Queensland Central Execu­ b-e need for great disparities in quotas in tive of the. Australian Labour Party is to electorates in provincial cities, the metro­ be upheld m matters and decisions flowing politan area, near-metropolitan areas, and from its convention, which is the highest near-country areas. The Act provides that in and binding authoritative body to deal with seats wholly or substantially west of the such matters, or whether Mr. Gair or any Great Dividing Range the commission may other individual who gives his solemn depart from the tolerance of 20 per cent. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3371

As I see it, in the Bill there are 12 of those I received information this morning that seats. Twelve of the present electorates fall the Premier was intent on bulldozing the Bill wholly or partially within that category. through the Committee stage. I was hopeful Even adjacent to the metropolitan zone the that wise counsel would prevail, because Redcliffe seat is shown to have a quota of since receiving the Bill many hon. members 17,800. Allowing for, say, 20 per cent. up have not been able to convey their views or down and taking the 20 per cent. up, it to the Premier after studying the legislation takes it to 21,400 voters. Take the country over the week-end. The Liberal Party met fieat that is not very far from Redcliffe as this morning, and the Treasurer was made the crow flies. Allowing for a country seat aware of the concern of our members. He with a quota of 9,900, if we take the 20 reiterated that he could do no more with per cent. off, it brings it down to 7 ,900. the Premier. A number of my colleaaues There could be just as much disparity here asked me to discuss the matter with" the as with a western seat that could come to Premier and to ask him not to proceed with 5,000. However, we will leave the western the Committee stage immediately after the rural areas out because they deserve special second reading but to debate the individual consideration. Even 7,900 to 21,400 means clauses on Thursday next. a disparity of 2. 7 to 1. . I think this was a reasonable request, J\fr. Aikens: One man m the country is masmuch as the Labour Party, ourselves and worth five in the city. other people could have, and undoubtedly do have, ideas or amendments drafted as Mr. HUGHES: If I were uncharitable, I a result of studying the Bill. It is often could say that would depend on the hon. the practice of this House to allow important member's perverted point of view. I am legislation to lie on the table for several prepared to say that the vote of the man months. That was done with the Companies in the country cannot in all fairness be a Bill, and other important Bills have been 1-for-1 vote value. I am prepared to treated likewise. I believe it was fair enough concede that there is and should be a toler­ that the Bill should have been delayed until ance and special consideration, but not the Thursday of this week before the clauses 5 to 1 that the hon. member wants, nor were discussed in Committee. H to 1. Some point around 2 to 1 may Mr. Aikens: If you meet the Premier, will be fair enough. That should be for the your attitude be "Give us what we want, commission to decide. or else"? I go along with giving special consideration Mr. HUGHES: Certainly not. to the western n1ral areas. The public Mr. Aikens: That has been your attitude demand a reasonableness in country and to date. near-city seats-not a 3 to 1 ratio. The cities will never swamp the country in Mr. HUGHES: The hon. member obviously voting strength. That is fair enough, but did not hear the earlier part of my speech. I said that whilst no-one is infallible, by likewise the cities do not want to be swamped the same rule no-one can expect to get by the country areas as a result of disparity all that he wants. The Bill contains major in voting strength. principles, some with a lesser degree of There is a need for fairness and honesty in importance and some that are only refine­ a redistribution, and an . approach that is ments and machinery matters. clearly above suspicion. I do not think we J\1r. Bennett: Tom, why do you have to have it in this Bill. It provides for five be the devil's advocate all the time? provincial city areas with quotas in excess of the metropolitan zone. The Premier has Mr. HUGHES: If I were the hon. mem­ shown a blatant disregard for voting ber's advocate, he would get out of more equality as I interpret it. He seems to have trouble than he now talks himself into. had no regard to these matters. There are It was necessary, I believe, to cool an disparities in numbers, areas, quotas and emotionally charged atmosphere, to mitigate zones. Clause 11 of the Bill-- the gravity of the situation and to provide time to discuss proposed amendments. This Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr. Hooper): almost surely would have avoided any crisis. Order! I spoke briefly, succinctly and courteously to the Premier and informed him that a Mr. HUGHES: I will not deal with the substantial body of Liberal members had clauses. I will merely say there are certain expressed their opposition to certain clauses aspects of the Bill which describe as "zones" of the Bill; that amendments to these clauses some areas which are in fact seats. That were to be moved in the Committee stage; should not apply in describing seats as such. that it was thought that such numbers would As I see it, there are grave disparities in the vote for certain amendments; that unless they BilL It contains anomalies which the public were accepted a division of the Committee will resent. The public will see this Bill would undoubtedly prove that major clauses as an electoral redistribution according to of the Bill as they now stand would be Joh. The public will rebel at being hood­ defeated; and would he therefore not pro­ winked, and they may call for the Premier's ceed into Committee today but delay the head. Committee stage until Thursday. 3372 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

At present we are faced with a cns1s Leader of the House. If he delays a con­ that could have been avoided. A better Bill sideration of the clauses of the Bill until undoubtedly would have been the result-an Thursday, and thereby gives himself and all honest Bill, embodying fairness and justice, other Government members-and other with justice being apparent and public interest people, too-an opportunity to study and paramount. I am sorry to say that the discuss the Bill, he will show the people of Premier became rather livid and hotly refused Queensland that he has the leadership the req nest. qualities that they look for. If he does this, I reported the result to my Liberal col­ the Bill will be saved and the people of leagues and I then spoke to the Minister Queensland will then receive electoral justice for Mines. He is at least a reasonable man, and a redistribution which is clearly above a calm man to whom one can speak, who suspicion. possesses the qualities of leadership to (Time expired.) understand the situation. He and, I believe, other members of the Country Party have Mr. HEATLEY (Albert) (9.21 p.m.): I did also failed to get any assurance from the not propose to speak to the Bill because I am Premier in this regard. We are therefore in a unique situation. At the outset I make faced with the situation in which people have it clear that l propose to run for the Senate. tried to discuss with the Premier certain Mr. Davis: What about Neville Banner? matters after having suddenly received a Bill which contained major principles and Mr. HEATLEY: I am not concerned with points that should and could have been dis­ who else stands. If the hon. member for cussed, but all of them have encountered a Brisbane watches his leader he will see that politically intractable man. The Premier, he is putting his hand up and saying, "Quieten of his own vo.Jition, has embarked on a down." As all hon. members, including the course of crisis to crash. I believe that he Leader of the Opposition, are aware, I play has done this in the same way as he has my cards straight. I have not declared my walked out of Cabinet meetings and party intention before, but tonight l declare that I meetings, with a stubbornness that amounts propose to stand for the Senate; it is as plain to nothing less than crass stupidity. This State as that. cannot afford any a-la-Gorton type of stub­ Mr. AikelliS: Do you think you will get the bornness or arrogance. The Premier is not endorsement? acting by divine right. Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: I will deal with you Mr. HEATLEY: I would not know. I go before a council committee of 152 members, afterwards. who come from all over Queensland. I notice Mr. HUGHES: All right, the invitation that it is said in the Press that it can be done is there. I will not run away. I have never by negotiation. How I can negotiate with run away from a fight in my life. I appeal 152 people whom I do not know is beyond to the Premier. He must surely realise that my comprehepsion. The hon. member for to continue with the Committee stage of Townsville South should behave like a this Bill into the early hours of Wednesday school-master and pretend he has some morning would probably result in some education. incalculable harm. I do not want to delay It appears that the Opposition senses vic­ it, but a few hours' delay would not prejudice tory. I think that Opposition members are the appointment of the commission or the looking back to the time of the split in the bringing in of the Bill, nor would it pre­ Gair Government. I would not blame the judice the rights of the people and their Opposition; if I were sitting on the other side freedom. Rather would it allow the right of the Chamber, I would drive every wedge of freedom of speech and action to be mani­ I could into the Government, and I would festly and democratically maintained. A sharpen the wedges-even though I am not few hours' delay to discuss proposed amend­ at the Bar at the moment, Mr. Bennett. ments will not do any harm. At a party meeting, I believe that, for the first time, Mr. BeiiWiett: Which bar? Government members will be able to discuss this Bill and any desired amendments. Mr. HEATLEY: I know the bar the hon. member appears at, and gets well paid for I again draw the attention of the House to doing so. I go to the other one, and pay. the fact that we as a Government party have During the debate the word "gerrymander" not discussed the Bill. I believe that we has been used a great deal, so let us be quite should discuss it. Far from wanting to frank, and get right down to the facts. In jeopardise the Government, a number of us 1948 or 1949, which ever year one likes to feel that the principle of public interest is choose, there was a gerrymander by the more important than personal political Labour Government. The hon. member for protection. Rockhampton South admitted it. Again I appeal to the Premier to recon­ sider his expressed immovable attitude and Mr. WRIGHT: I rise to a point of order. thus save this Government. I believe that if I admitted no such thing, and I ask the hon. he does that, the Government will be saved member to withdraw his statement. in the eyes of. the people who will sit in Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member judgment on the actions expressed by the for Albert. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3373

Mr. HEATLEY: "Hansard" will show that I spoke tonight because I am in a unique this is so. position. I have made my position about the Senate clear. I have been approached today Mr. WRIGHT: I rise to a point of order. -I have even been pressured by members of I ask the hon. member to withdraw his statement. I said no such thing; I said "if both the Country Party and the A.L.P.-to there was a gerrymander", and I emphasised run for the Senate. J will not mention names. the word "if". Mr. Aikens: Don't tell us; keep it in con­ Mr. HEATLEY: I withdraw .the statement fidence. that he said there was a gerrymander, but Mr. HEATLEY: The hon. member is the there was a very big "if". He said "if there only one who has not mentioned it to me. was such a gerrymander", and implied there As he is an Independent, I do not approach was, "why should we follow on?" I think him, except for advice, because of the years I that any party that is in power, whether it be a coalition or simple party, wants to have known him. protect-- l will not be pressured and I will not be Mr. R. E. Moore: Very simple. bought, but I say simply and clearly that the Bill before the House at the moment is not Mr. HEATLEY: Not as simple as that­ acceptable to the people of Queensland. That quite intellectual. is my opinion and ~ express it quite clearly. For obvious reasons it wants to protect Mr. R. E. Moore: It is the wrong one, too. the members it has and retain control of the House. It thinks that its policy is the right Mr. HEATLEY: It could be the wrong policy. In 1949, in my opinion, the A.L.P. one. That will be determined in the House, introduced probably one of the greatest by its vote. gerrymanders of all time. It would only be right to say that the Liberal Party or the I think certain amendments have to be Country Party would try to retain members made and I think the people expect us to in this House. That is straight politics and I implement them. I only hope that common do not think the Opposition can argue with sense prevails. it. As far as I can see this is what has happened on this occasion. Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer­ Treasurer) (9.30 p.m.): With the exception I disagree to a great extent with the Bill of the 10 minutes between 7.15 and 7.25 as it stands. I want to see some amendments this evening, I have sat in this Chamber introduced to provide for a fairer distribu­ and listened to the remarks of various hon. tion. The people of Queensland expect that members who have endeavoured to apply of us. Let us not "kid" ourselves. Today, themselves either to criticism or approbation the people are not as naive as they were in of the Bill. I do not propose to go over the 1949 when they were not worrying about ramifications of what has been said. politics. Through the Press, TV, radio and so on, people are more alert to what is I have been in this House for 24 years. happening in politics than they were in those For some 10 years I sat in Opposition. I days. Today, the people expect a reasonable, was in the Chamber on the night when the just redistribution, and I cannot support the Gair Government split. It is true that I was present Bill without amendment; with amend­ as jubilant, sitting on that side of the ment, I can. I am only hoping that the Chamber, as A.L.P. members have been Premier will accept some reasonable amend­ today and this evening. In those days, ment of it. because of a yearning for power and a desire I spoke to the Premier tonight when I to implement a free-enterprise policy in this entered the House and he said, "I hope that State, I was jubilant that there would be a you are going to support the Bill". I said, split in the Government of the day. Conse­ "Yes, but with amendment". He then quently, I took part in wooing some of those brushed me aside and said, "That is up to who were sitting on the Government side. you; completely up to you". Mr. Bennett: Whom did you woo? Mr. Aiken: He got arrogant, did he? Mr. CHALK: I took part in it. There was Mr. HEATLEY: It was not arrogance at no difference between what happened on that all; it was just his approach to my reply. I fateful night and what is happening in this might also point out that I did not propose Chamber this evening. However, there is to speak on this Bill tonight because of the one difference so far as Queensland is con­ unique position in which I am placed. I have cerned. The result today could plunge this said that I propose to run for the Senate. State into a socialistic Government in the Mr. Bromley interjected. days that are ahead. It is plainly clear that that is the only difference. I have heard Mr. HEATLEY: I do not have to support words of praise coming from the A.L.P. in anybody else; I am sure that people can look an endeavour to win the support of some after themselves in politics and in other members whom, up to the present, I have fields. Surely the hon. member must know had the honour to lead in a particular that, otherwise he is thinner in the brain than political party. The position is quite clear I thought he was. in my mind. 3374 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

This evening we heard the hon. member in _Queensland w~re sufficient. I fully sub­ for Townsville North say that the Govern­ scnbe to that v1ew. Even "The Courier­ ment's only interest is to fawn on the Mail" indicated quite clearly in an editorial Japanese and bow to the Americans. It is that t~is State had quite enough parlia­ true that, only yesterday, representatives of mentanans to govern its affairs. I sub­ three of the largest American organisations scribe to that view. associated with the development of Aus­ . The first thing that those of us who were tralia were in this State for the purpose of g1ven authority to negotiate had to hammer considering investment in the development of out was the number of seats. Whenever Queensland under a free-enterprise Govern­ anyc;ne s~arts to negotiate, whatever the ment. It is also true that, at the present dealmg might be, there has to be some give moment, 28 Japanese gentlemen, drawn from ~nd take. Finally, the Country Party gave ~he whole economic structure of Japan, are m to the extent of agreeing that there would m Queensland for the purpose of looking at be 78 seats. I believe that is what the the development of this State. These are electors of Queensland want as a whole. the people who will play a part in the development of this State if the present Then came the consideration of the growth Government continues in office. that has taken. place in the provincial areas Let us anaLyse exactly what all this means. ~nd on the fnnge of the metropolitan area. I have been accused by the Opposition, and uomeone had to take a close look at where by some members of my own party, of being the masses of population had gathered since one of the architects of this legislation. I the last redistribution. We found that on make no apology for that. l accept the the perimeter of what has been described ~wer the years as the metropolitan area­ a~cusation, and I do so because, after some mne months or more, the two arms of the m other words, the area of the city of administration of the coalition Government B~isbane-there _had been a growth factor, could not between them solve the problem w1t~ qu1te a ,rapid growth in some portions. that existed. Consequently, members of the It .'s. ~qu~lly t_rue. that with the change in Country Party decided that they would vest activities m th1s c1ty there are considerable in the Premier and the deputy leader of their bare patches in much of its central portion. !herefore, it ~as reasonable to say, "This party full responsibility for endeavouring to IS th_e P<;JPUlatwn of the metropolitan area, carry out, on. behalf of their party, the elec­ but It Will have to be spread if we are to tion pledge g1ven by the Premier and by me have any form of quota for it." We realised that there would be a redistribution of the that there was a need to take in some of electorates of Queensland before the next the adjoining area to build up the total that State election. The Country Party passed wou~d be required for the 30 seats necessary that responsibility to two men democrati­ to g1ve greater representation to the growth cally elected by their parliamentary team to that had taken place. It is no use lookincr be their leader and their deputy leader. at it merely through Liberal eyes, Country As the Liberal Party had failed to reach Party eyes, or Labour eyes. The whole a degre_e <;Jf ~nderstanding with the Country point is that the growth factor has occurred Party, 1t md1cated to me that it was time in these localities. something w~s done to honour the pledge . We th~n _had a look at what had happened that I had giVen at the last State election. In provmc1al areas. Ipswich has grown I accepted that responsibility; I believe that immensely in recent times, and so have there was an onus on me to do so. I the Rockhampton and Gladstone areas. consulted with my deputy, and we indicated to our party that we would endeavour to Mr. P. Wood: There should be three seats do exactly what our colleagues in the coali­ in Rockhampton and three seats in Ipswich. tion had set o_ut to do, namely, to get Mr. CHALK: The hon. member wants together and brmg about an understanding three seats in Ipswich. Exactly what does between the two parties that constitute the he want? Let us analyse what the A.L.P. Government on a redistribution of electorates is saying about this. I will do that after on a reasonably fair and equitable basis. I deal with Townsville. There is also a It is true that our organisation had failed growth factor in the Townsville area; there and it is equally true that both our organisa~ is a growth factor in the Cairns area; there tions wili fail if the Bill is defeated in is a growth factor, although not to such the House tonight. The fact of the matter a marked degree, in Toowoomba. We looked at those locations and realised what could is that we got together on the question. be achieved by including two extra seats It was not a one-sided affair, because every­ in the Brisbane area, seats which I say quite on~ in Qu~ensland knows the Country Party's openly the Liberal Party could not possibly pomt of v1ew on the number of seats. Quite win because of the growth factor and where bluntly, they desired an increase in the number of seats for the protection of some it has occurred. of their own electorates, at the same time We looked on this as a fair and equitable realising that there was some growth in the approach and, having taken the number of city and that some of the new electorates electors in the metropolitan area and divided would possibly find their way into provincial it by 30, we got a quota factor and a ~re~s. On the ?ther hand, the Liberal Party similarity of interest in that locality. Then md1cated a belief that 78 parliamentarians we looked at the provincial cities I have Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3375 named. Have a look at Cairns. Is there fair to the people of Queensland? Will that not a community of interest in the 15,000- return to this Chamber a fair representation odd people who live there? Is there not a of the thoughts of the people? Hon. members similar community of interest in the people have had Labour's policy laid before them. who live in Townsville? It provides for some 69 seats from Mossman Mr. Casey: What about Mackay? to Coolangatta, 52 of them being between Bundaberg and the Gold Coast. Seventeen Mr. CHALK: Is there not a similarity of of them are north of Bundaberg, so bang interest in the people who live in Mackay? go quite a number of seats in the Notih, and nine seats will stretch from the western Mr. Jensen: What about Bundaberg? side of the Great Dividing Range in the Mr. CHALK: Is there not a similarity of Toowomba area right up to Cape York and interest in the people who live in Bundaberg, west to Burketown. This is the type of policy in Maryborough, and in Toowoomba? enunciated by those who are sitting in the Labour Party at the present time. Mr. B. Wood: With Laidley? Those who were negotiating across the Mr. CHALK: Quite so. The Laidley table had the advantage of a full knowledge people flow towards that area. The whole of what was highly desirable, but not for of the Drayton area has a similarity of one political party or the other. Let us interest. If the hon. member wants to get be fair. Naturally the Country Party wants down to the bottom end of Toowoomba, as many seats as it can get, and the Liberal that is all right, but the people of Crow's Party likewise wants as many seats as it Nest, north of Toowoomba, shop in Too­ can get. And don't try to tell me that woomba and have a similarity of interest the A.L.P. does not want as many seats with the people at Highfields. as it can get. The point of the matter is that the Premier can produce .to the The point of the matter is that we took House seven telegrams that he has received the provincial areas. It is not a question within 24 hours from Country Party organ­ of saying that we should have the same isations alleging that he has sold out to number of people, on a quota system, in Chalk. On the other hand, I have received Ipswich as we have in the metropolitan area, five telegrams within 3-1 hours saying that because Ipswich has a community of interest I have sold out to .Petersen. of its own. For my part, I am prepared to accept 16,000 or 17,000 people in each of Mr. Hanson: You sent them yourself. two electorates in Ipswich. There is not Mr. CHALK: That is what I would expect much difference between that and the 13,500 from the hon. member for •Port Curtis. He to 14,000 in the metropolitan area. has been talking to himself all the time Let us look at the situation in Townsville, he has been in the Chamber; he has no in Bundaberg or in Maryborough, where need to send telegrams. admittedly there is a slightly higher figure The Leader of the Opposition says the again, but these are places with their own Government is doing a gerrymander. What community of interest. Consequently, we I have said illustrates the fact that, irres­ looked at them as being concentrated areas pective of the argument that is put forward, of population and we considered that a the political outlook of the party concerned reasonable thing. Do hon. members opposite will prevail whether we like it or not. want to have returned as a member for the The coalition parties have laid down cer­ area a person who represents the decision of tain principles. But what is the good of the people of the area on what type of principles if they clash with those of another politics they want? If they go about it in party in a coalition and could possibly any other way, they will not get a truly drag down the Government? We do all representative indication of the views of we can to abide by our principles, but the people of that area. I could carve it is like a boxer crossing himself before Ipswich up quite simply by putting some of he goes into the ring; it is of no use it into adjoining Country Party areas and unless he can fight. Jlrinciples are not much taking away from Ipswich the right to return good if they are going to hand this State the type of representative which I honestly over to those who will not govern it in believe the people of Ipswich desire. the interests of the basic principles of free Let us again look at the situation in the enterprise, which we on this side of the Far \Vest. Hon. members can, if they Chamber believe in. want, divide the Far West up by drawing We have gone forward on the basis that certain geographical lines and thus create a neither party has received exactly what it situation where some 6,000 or 7,000 electors wanted. However, we have arrived at a spread over a vast area would have one situation in which the people of Queensland representative. On the other hand, if they will be able to indicate the type of govern­ follow a quota system based on the metro­ ment they want. That is the purpose of politan outlook, or on a similar outlook to the Bill. It is true that certain members that in the provincial areas, they will wipe of my political party do not subscribe to out two or three seats in North Queensland the view that I as leader hold and have and one or two in the West. Is that what expressed. I remind them that views do the people of Queensland want? Is that not evolve overnight. My views are not 3376 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

born of treachery, as the hon. member for supported me wholeheartedly. I made my Townsville North has insinuated; rather have position quite clear yesterday morning. I sat they been expressed in the interests of this for 4t hours listening to the views of the State. executive of my party on Sunday evening. If it is a matter of falling out with some I asked for advice. of my colleagues in my party I do so Mr. Heatley: Not direction. because I believe that, as an el~cted repre­ sentative in this House and as one who Mr. CHALK: No, I did not ask for was elected to lead a political party I direction. I asked them for advice. I asked have a responsibility to ensure that what' we if, having seen the Bill, they could tell me ~re prepared to advocate is in the best or indicate to me how I could overcome mterests of the State. There are some within the views I expressed then and the views my party who are saying, "Let us defer which I have expressed tonight. What did I this legi~lat.ion until Thursday." Heaven only receive in return? A repetition of the over­ knows 1t 1s not a matter of deferring it riding instructions that were issued 12 for two days; it has been standing dormant months ago by the party at its convention. for 12 months because the very words that Is this the basis on which one can further are being uttered now were uttered previously negotiate? by the hon. gentleman who spoke before To those who have met early in the day me-and they were uttered in many places. and who, I understand, have taken a pledge The Premier and I, acting on behalf of to defeat or amend this Bill, I say that the our parties, came to the conclusion that this matter is their responsibility. My responsi­ was as far as either party could go. We bility is to lead this party in coalition until agreed because we believed that we could either the coalition is defeated or the retain the Treasury benches and retain the coalition splits up. I asked them this morning Government. For my part it is not a question to vote according to their consciences. I of putting it off until tomorrow· it is a leave it on the basis that if they want to question of every person in this 'chamber, defeat this Government, if they want to whatever his political outlook, searching his create the same set of circumstances that own conscience and deciding for himself existed when the Gair Government fell, let whether what has been put forward will them go ahead. continue this Government in power or defeat I will be able to leave this Chamber it. That is the responsibility of each person feeling that, during the period I have sat who is elected to this House. on the Government side, I have fought for A lot has been said about this Bill. It the development of Queensland. The has been claimed that it did not go before Minister for Mines and I in particular have the party machine. That is true; we do not played a very important part in the major deny it. But the machine, so far as the negotiations that have taken place to advance administration was concerned, gave authority Queensland. We might argue with the Opposi­ to the Premier and his deputy and to my tion about some of the things that have been deputy and me to try to bring about a done. We might not have got enough from satisfactory conclusion. It is true that I somebody out of a particular metal deal. went. to the party organisation at a special But there has been honesty and sincerity in meetmg some 10 days ago. That was referred what has been done in the belief that it was to in the Press as a "Chalk plan", but it in the best interests of the people of Queens­ was not a "Chalk plan"; it was the con­ land. I think it is accepted by Liberal, sidered opinion of those who were negotiating Labour and Country Party supporters that and it gave an indication of the closeness great strides have been made in this State. that we had been able to reach. There I know that certain Liberal Party members were three differences in relation to which would like to expand into Country Party ~he executive of the party said, "Well, that territory. I laughed a little when I saw, on ts your p'an; you have the responsibility the agenda for the council meeting held last of negotiating; see what you can do." Saturday, a motion endeavouring to cripple It The one thing that appears to have caused and wipe out the Country Party. was a some of the problems within my own party motion from a branch at Dalby. concerns the Woodridge area. I will be Mr. Aikens: Charlie Russell. honest in every way and say that I cannot s~e how I can argue with my Premier and Mr. CHALK: The point of the matter is his deputy that Woodridge should belong to that it was Charlie Russell's son who moved Boonah o~ ~eaude~ert. . This is a growing it. He is at the university, or in some area, and 1t 1s growmg mto the metropolitan legal set-up, at present. He is the son area. Have I not been pressured within of the man who tried to smash the Country my own organisation to see that the area Party under Arthur Fadden. This is the is expanded, and it is doing so. man, who, with his son, is in the gallery tonight. His one idea is to break down Here is an area with the type of voter some of this private enterprise. who might not put the figure "1" where I would like him to put it. But we must face The position is that these very people reality in this direction. It is because of that are growing fat Dn the revenue and entitle­ factor that I have been maligned in certain ments of this State. quarters by some of those who previously Mr. Hinze: They are grubs. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3377

Mr. CHALK: I did not say anything about All I can say in conclusion is that I drugs. believe that what we have presented to the House should be agreed to in toto. If that Mr. Hinze: "Grubs". is done, the commission will be charged with Mr. CHALK: What I am saying is that the responsibility of laying down the boun­ this is the type of idealistic approach that daries within the zones. We have heard all is coming from some of my back-benchers. this talk about the commission, but it all amounts to nought because the point of I want the people of Queensland to know the matter is that the commission will draw exactly why I am standing here tonight, the lines of the boundaries of the various and why I believe that .this Bill is the electorates. best Bill that we, in coalition, can work out. It is not a Bill that is going to make Mr. MURRAY (Clayfield) (10.11 p.m.): At the going rosy for the Government. I have the introductory stage I indicated that if after had a look at the voting strength in many receiving the Bill my perusal of it revealed country areas, and I have also had a look a gross disparity, or in fact a disparity at the situation in provincial cities. Heaven electorate to electorate of anything greater only knows if what happened in South than 2 to 1, I would not only argue against Australia will happen in this State in due it but I would also vote against it. I have course. Sir Thomas Playford ruled South not changed that attitude. When we received Australia for a long period. That was not the Bill I think most of us, or many of us, a question of gerrymandering, but merely were rather shocked at its contents. I the existence in South Australia of the same certainly was. set of circumstances now found in Queens­ land. After the war, there was industrial Mr. Camm: It does not take much to growth in Adelaide and close surrounding shock you. areas such as Elizabeth. Is that not exactly Mr. MURRA Y: That is one attribute I what is happening in Queensland today? hope I can preserve. We want industry. We want workmen. We want heavier pay packets. So far as the The fact of the matter is that the Bill Government is concerned, we want greater was brought down with little consultation, expansion and more national wealth in indeed, virtually no consultation at all, with Queensland, and the only way to obtain back-bench members. It is true that some industrial expansion and increased national broad principles were outlined, but the detail wealth is by having a larger work-force. of the Bill was not made known to us. Certainly no detail of the Bill was given Mr. Tucker: Are you presenting a Budget? in the party room. I am quite sure that Mr. CHALK: No, I am presenting facts had it been given there would have been that are very relevant to this issue. If considerable opposition to it. Members the hon. member does not want to listen, would have been adamant that it should I do not care, but he has a responsibility not be introduced in its existing form, and to the elec-tors of Townsville North. The every effort would have been made to amend hon. member was worried about the position it then. Another worrying aspect, among in his electorate some time ago. However, many others, is whether there was full dis­ I know that there is further industrial growth cussion of the Bill in Cabinet. Did the ·there. He can be cocky now, but he was Ministers know in detail what it contained? not too cocky at the last State election. If we assume they did, many of us can feel very let down that we as private members, Mr. Tucker: You are not very cocky members of the back-bench, were not con­ tonight. sulted. If they did not know what was in the Bill, it is a pretty sorry commentary 'Mr. CHALK: I am as cocky as one thing! on the conduct of Cabinet affairs-a very Mr. Tucker: You are crying. sorry commentary indeed. Mr. CHALK: I am not crying; I am as The Treasurer has told us of the authority .cocky as one thing. I believe that what he had to negotiate this Bill. The Minister I have done is in the best interests of for Mines also spoke of his authority. I the people of Queensland. Having said am quite sure that that authority was not that, I am prepared to accept whatever to the extent that it was intended that they might be the consequences. All that I am should ride roughshod over Parliament in doing is telling the people of Queensland the way being attempted now. why I have taken the stand that I have. I shall deal with a couple of points, as I am also telling some of my own party I feel I must, referred to by the Minister members that they also have a responsibility. for Mines, who is the Deputy Leader of the I am not going to try to convince them. Country Party. He said that members of I have put plain facts to them and what this Chamber-he referred to members of they do is now their responsibility. They are the Opposition and to those on the Govern­ elected as members for certain localities ment side who he thought may have some Admittedly they are elected as members of opposition to the Bill-were prepared to a J?Olitic.al par~y, but the final analysis of sacrifice country electors to pander to the thetr actwns wtll be made by the electors in wishes of Brisbane people. His words should the areas they represent. be noted. I think it is fair to ask what 3378 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill special rights in voting quality any section I was also amazed at the Minister for of the population of this State has. Who Mines when, almost arrogantly, he said, "We are these people who demand special rights? decided we would put these people here, these people there and these people some­ First of all, I hope we can look at all where else," with an almost total disregard of the electors of Queensland first and fore­ for what the commissioners might determine most as Queenslanders-not as first-class, to do. It is all very well saying that the second-class or third-class Queenslanders, but commissioners have complete freedom to as Queenslanders. Then, by virtue of some draw the boundaries. I suppose they will, community of interest, geography, or special but the way we are proceeding it would consideration-and it would need to be a seem that the boundaries will be fairly well very special consideration-perhaps there indicated for them. I know that, historically, could be some disparity or some slight submissions are put before the commissioners inequality of voting in comparing one by all parties-and properly so-but we electorate with another. should not carry it to the extent of publicly deciding that we will put certain people But in these days when communications here and others there, and that we will are what they are-we are well past the eliminate one seat and put another seat horse-and-buggy days-when members are somewhere else. We should not do all able to service their electorates extremely this publicly prior to making submissions to well, and in view of the ability of this the commission. Parliament to grant to more remote members greater facilities and more compensation for The Minister for Mines also said that the servicing their electorates in remote areas, Liberal leaders who were negotiating-he the need for disparity between electorates referred to the Treasurer and the Minister for becomes far less. Justice-would have liked to see more Liberal principles in the Bill, and he then said that I say now that the hon. member for naturally the Country Party would have liked Gregory-and Lord knows, his electorate is to see more Country Party principles in the big enough-would see more of his electors Bill. I would like to know where the starting in a year than most city members do who point was. If there was compromise and represent electorates that, figuratively give on both sides, it must have been a speaking, one could throw a hat over. shocker that started it. If there has been a Mr. Aikens: He would not have done so battle to gain equality of vote on the one as a private member. He might now, as a hand-and we can start off at round about Minister. 3 to 1 or worse at the point of redistribution -I might well ask, "Where did the nego­ Mr. MURRAY: I am pointing out that tiations start?" We should be wary when over the years, with inadequate facilities, the talking about the principles we might have hon. member for Gregory has been able to wanted in the Bill. As to the 78 seats, they get around his electorate to many focal are of less importance to me than is the points-local shows, races and functions held equality of the vote in this State; they are in various towns-where people congregate, also less important than many other principles. as they do in the country, and see far more of them than members in city seats have We should take note of what the mass the opportunity of seeing their electors media have said about redistribution in the because they have no similar focal point. last few days. I shall quote from today's Other than going from door to door and issue of "The Australian", which says in knocking, they would see few of their its editorial- electors. "The Country Party wants to bring in a gerrymander that will allow it to counter­ Mr. Cory: He probably has one night at act the population trends that are running home every two months. strongly against it, and to help offset an Mr. MURRAY: Maybe. I have already inept leadership that has little appeal in the said that we must compensate country new areas of population growth." members and make sure that facilities are They are harsh words, but we should face made available to them. Admittedly it is up to what has been said in the Press. hard, but let us assume that the hon. member The editorial continues- for Gregory had 2,000 electors and that, for one reason or another, the area was "It is conceded by all parties that there continually denuded of people. What does should be an electoral redistribution. The this do to the argument? last was in 1958, and since then the State's population has increased from 1,500,000 Mr. Chinchen: He still has to travel the to over 1,800,000, with major changes in same distance. poulation distribution. Mr. MURRAY: Of course he has. As I "Even in Brisbane, electorates now vary say, there should not be first, second or from just over 9,000 to nearly 22,000 third-class citizens in this State and there voters." should be very special reasons before we Mr. Aikens: Are you only going to quote grant inequality. This should be the guiding from one newspaper? principle of any redistribution, and it is certainly not contained in this Bill. Mr. MURRAY: No, I am not. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3379

Further down, the editorial says- decided to find out what Parliament is about. "The question now is what changes are I say frankly that we in this Chamber are the going to be made to replace this gerry­ representatives of the people of Queensland. mander." If for 14 years a Government has never had It refers continually to "gerrymander", and its legislation amended or changed by Parlia­ then goes on- ment, it is about time that it suffered the experience. What is wrong with Parliament "The Country Party's present redistri­ amending a Bill? bution bill before the Queensland Parlia­ ment would mean that the electorates in Mr. Bjelke-Pet&sen: What is wrong with provincial towns would have bigger popu­ attending the party meeting and trying to lations than Brisbane electorates, while the change it there? electorates in the country zone would be Mr. MURRA Y: In all fairness, we should easily the smallest of all." be given the opportunity of discussing the To satisfy the hon. member for Townsville Bill. The Premier must freely admit that we South, I shall read from the leading article in did not get this opportunity, and that we were yesterday's issue of "The Courier-Mail". not given any details. I do not think it would After some preamble it says-- do us any good to recount the situation. We "The Bill introduced by the Premier last have the Bill now, and again I ask Parlia­ week provides for a redistribution favour­ ment, "If a part of it is amended, so what?" ing the Government, but mostly favouring After all, this is a democratic parliamentary the Country Party, which is concerned at institution. It is an incredible situation for a maintaining its coalition seniority." Government to consider that it must fall because a piece of its legislation is amended. No-one denies any party the right to wish to retain its place in the sun. There is no doubt that Parliament wants a The article continues- redistribution. It has been promised, and the "A redistribution should not have such people of the State want it. But they want aims. It should seek to provide fair repre­ a fair redistribution. They recognise that sentation for all Queenslanders and be fair every party, as was pointed out in the quota­ to all parties. However, no Government in tion that I read from a newspaper a little Queensland, for almost 40 years, has stood while ago, does not stick completely to the fully by these principles. Under Labor, democratic principle. There is something of electoral gerrymandering was appalling. a lean, but not a blatant lean or twist as there is in this Bill. I say to the Premier, to "Last week's Bill appears to have been Cabinet and to the Government that if this introduced in hot temper. It has been Parliament decides to make some change or claimed that full Cabinet did not discuss amendment, why look on it as disastrous? the Bill, and that some Ministers did Why look on it as a defeat, or an ignominious not see it before it was introduced in happening? Parliament. This, if true, was an extra­ ordinary procedure. Mr. Bjelllie-P,etersen: It took us 12 months "Not only Cabinet, but the two Parlia­ to reach this agreement. Do you think we mentary parties should have discussed the can reach a further one? legislation before it was introduced. Every Mr. MURRAY: I do. I am sure we can. member is affected by it . . . I say that this Bill should be taken away. By "It also is important that the parlia­ all means we should test it, but if Parliament mentarians, and not party organisations decides that a part of it should be amended, outside Parliament, decide the fate of the we should accept it. The Premier has made legislation." the public statement that no amendment Of course, in the final analysis it is decided would be accepted. That was an extraordin­ in Parliament. ary statement. The article concludes by saying- Mr. Bjelke-Pete,rsen: That is correct. "Parliamentarians of the two parties should feel free to try to find a fair Mr. MURRAY: Has Parliament become solution irrespective of decisions made such a nuisance that it has to be a rubber within their organisations." stamp for what Cabinet wants? What does all this mean? Why should we attend Parlia­ I have read what the two major daily news­ ment? If that is to be the pattern of events, papers that are circulated in this State say let us go home to our electorates or watch about us. television instead of going through this The Treasurer sees impending doom; he uncomfortable farce, which is all that it sees another 1957. The year 1957 is close amounts to. I say honestly and sincerely to enough for us to recall those days, but for the Premier that this is not good enough. the life of me I cannot see why the Treasurer Mr. Bjelke-Pete,r,.en: You should attend the and others should fear some impending doom. party meetings. You missed the last two They seem to be frantically worried that meetings. Parliament may not approve of some part of the Bill; that Parliament may want to amend . Mr. MURRA Y: I attended the party meet­ the Bill. What if Parliament does want to mg called to discuss this Bill. The Premier amend the Bill? It is about time that we called a meeting suddenly the next morning 3380 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

when I could not be contacted. I was not No Government can continue to exist for there because I knew nothing about it. That very long if it has not the loyal support of is the truth of the situation. all of its members. No member has the right The Government has a good record. There to be associated with a party if he cannot is no doubt about this. Hon. members on be loyal to a decision reached by the both sides of the Chamber know that the majority of that party. I remind hon. mem­ Government has endeavoured to do its best bers that negotiations and discussions took for the State. It has a good record of place over many months between the parties achievement. There is no doubt in my mind and party leaders, and we reached certain that it should retain the Treasury benches. decisions. As has been indicated by the To allow this to upset it would be quite Treasurer, we were given the right by our ridiculous. organisations to arrive at decisions, on the basis that it had been found impossible to If this Bill is passed in its present form, arrive at them in any other way. The result I doubt whether we could ever properly hold of those discussions and decisions is the Bill our heads up outside again without the now before the House for its second reading. accusation of a blatant gerrymander and electoral rigging being thrown at us from I warn hon. members of the serious conse­ all sides. How can we possibly support a quences if the Bill is defeated. That has also redistribution that is worse than 3-to-1 at been reiterated by other speakers today. I the point of redistribution, with factors ask hon. members on my side of the House allowing it to get worse? We could not do it. who question the Bill how many times they can expect to renegotiate a deal? Their Through you, Mr. Speaker, I say to the representatives have made a deal, and it has Premier: take this Bill back and let there taken a long time to reach agreement. If a be more discussion on it. Let us sit around person buys a house, a car or a horse, he the table like adults and try to sort something cannot expect to renegotiate the deal if he out. goes back and says, "I don't want this deal. Mr. Aikens: You have had 10 months to We will make another deal." We all know do it. the basis on which the present arrangements have been made. That is why, when the hon. Mr. MURRAY: I did not have 10 months. member for Kurilpa asked me earlier if I For some extraordinary reason, the time has would renegotiate the matter, I said that I been unfortunately wasted. definitely would not. If Parliament persists on the line that the Premier has decided, and if this Bill is Mr. HUGHES: I rise to a point of order. pushed through regardless, it will be a dis­ What the Premier has said is not true. I did astrous day for this State. If, on the other not ask him to renegotiate. I asked him to hand, the Premier and Cabinet are going to defer the Committee stage to enable him to take deep offence at amendments being discuss and perhaps accept proposed amend­ moved-and these amendments have not yet ments. been discussed to my knowledge-- Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: That is merely Mr. Aikens: You discussed them with the a horse of a different colour. The hon. Labour Party. member's words and mine have much the Mr. MURRAY: I wish the hon. member same effect. What he wanted was the post­ for Townsville South would speak on matters ponement of the further passage of the Bill that he knows something about. He cannot after this stage so that there could be further point the finger at me in this regard. discussion on it. If that is not renegotiation, I do not know what is. I want to make it If Cabinet must get its own way in this or clear that there can be no renegotiation of an else, Cabinet members will be accused of issue on which it has taken so much time to behaving like spoilt, naughty little boys. I reach agreement. do not believe this can happen. Therefore, as I said, I ask the Premier to take this I indicated to the hon. member when he out for a time, look at the foreshadowed was speaking that I would reply to some of amendments and discuss them with the people the statements that he made. Perhaps all l who are desperately worried about this will say is that I have nothing but utter con­ matter and then endeavour to bring in a Bill tempt for anybody who resorts to untruths that will be totally acceptable to this side of to further his case. When he said that again the House. and again I walked out of Cabinet meetings, he was being completely untruthful. I have Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah never done that. -Premier) 10.33 p.m.), in reply: A good deal has been said by hon. members on both Mr. Bromley: No, you run out. sides of the Chamber. The attitude adopted Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: No, I crawl by Opposition members is just what we would out. At least, that is what the hon. member exrect. Their role is to criticise, condemn tried to imply. That is completely untrue, and ridicule to the best of their ability, and and the hon. member has no right to make that is what they have been doing. I, mem­ such statements. bers of my Cabinet, and many of my colleagues are deeply concerned at the atti­ I again warn members of the serious conse­ tude adopted by certain members on this quences if the Bill is defeated. I also say side of the House. that I shall not treat the m:1tter very lightly, Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH) Electoral Districts Bill 3381

either. Let me remind the House of the Queensland. They are the people '.Vhose policy saying that "united we stand, divided we would be the complete ruination of Queens­ fall". I remind members of what the coalition land. I will refer to just one final "clause"- has meant to Queensland. The Deputy 'The A.L.P. should show to the people, Premier has just told the House of the who supply the labour and knowledge to tremendous development that there has been this complex, that we stand for their in the industrial field. Since the Government eventual collective control of it, rather than took office and the State was freed from the being serviced to it, as now." socialistic, negative attitude that prevailed They passed that at their Labour-in-Politics during 40 years of Labour Government rule, Convention. progress has been unbelievable. Opposition Members interjected. Opposition Members interjected. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The Leader of Mr. N. T. E. Hewitt: You have never been the Opposition seems to be anxious that I tv Central Queensland lately. should go further and refer to more of their attitudes. I refer to their support of the Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I warn the moratorium demonstrations; their support of Minister for Conservation. I have been illegal strikes; the radical street marches they warning members all day about noisy inter­ have supported; their support of bogus peace jections across the Chamber, and I make no organisations; Senator Georges as Queens­ exceptions of Ministers. land/ Australian delegate to the Communist peace talks; Senator Keefe's burnt Act of the Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: What a tragedy Queensland Parliament; Dr. Cairns' burnt it would be for the development of this State National Service draft cards-- if Labour returned to power! The Leader of the Opposition is telling hon. members not Opposition Members interjected. to interject, as he did before, and that is quite all right with me. I know what I am going Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I know that to say and I will be glad of silence so that I hon. members opposite do not like to hear can say it. these things because they so vitally affect their decisions in this State. He and the hon. member for Logan spoke of democracy and the way in which demo­ Opposition Members interjected. cracy was being taken away from this State and its people. How completely absurd and Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: This is all very ridiculous it is for hon. members opposite to interesting for hon. members opposite. They speak about democracy. 1 want to emphasise do not like to hear it because it must seem this point because it is very important to like a bad dream to them. remind the people of Queensland what was This is what they carried at their last said and done at their conference on the Gold conference at Southport. From time to time Coast by these men who want to form the I will certainly remind the people of Queens­ Government of this State. They overwhelm­ land of their attitude and policy towards ingly voted for a whole series of things that Socialism and the control of labour. The would completely enslave the State in Leader of the Opposition and other hon. Socialism and what it stands for. They over­ members were very critical of the Bill. Thev whelmingly carried a motion to abolish the suggested that it was an outrageous Bill and office of Governor of Queensland, the very used other critical expressions. I remind root of democracy. They made it quite clear them of what they have failed to recognise. that that would be their first step. A motion In 1948 the then Premier, the late Honour­ of the Kedron Branch of the A.L.P. that was able E. M. Hanlon, said- carried was "Labour ideals on democratic "The metropolitan area is the City of Socialism should be put into some practical Brisbane. We propose to limit the number effect, particularly at the industrial level". of members in the metropolitan area to The A.L.P. is based broadly on the industrial 24. sections of society, not on the rural sections "We propose to increase the total of society. I notice that they are mentioned, membership of the House by 13 ..." but the A.L.P. has no interest in them. The vast complex of factories and machines sup­ This is where we said, of course, in relation ply the essentials for life and living. That is to this particular Bill, that the A.L.P. had the policy-- done outrageous gerrymandering in that measure when the seats were increased by Mr. Houston: What clause is that in the 13. Mr. Hanlon continued- Bill? ". . . allowing four in the metropolitan area and nine additional representatives l'\i!r. BJELKE-PETERSEN: That is a clause of the country. That will keep the balance in the hon. gentleman's policy. of the representation of the country. Mr. Houston: We are discussing a Bill. "The provinces must be built and the best way to build them is to give them '\fr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Yes, we are more responsibility, breaking down the di;;cussing a Bill and I will tie it up with the centralised control that capital cities have BilL These men, through this legislation, are always exercised. Queensland is vast. Folk seeking to become the Government of of the North and the centre and the 3382 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

West regard us and each other as distant That is what the late Mr. Hanlon said and strangers. The time has come to end he went on- that detachment. ". . . or great readers on political matters. "I think that was quite sound. I do They are not people who are inclined not think we can do it any better than to study." by giving it greater representation in our The late Mr. Evans came in with a very Parliament to the far-out places of our interesting and witty remark when he said­ State." "It is a good job for you they are not." The other speech that the hon. Premier of I conclude with this last paragraph- the day made is an interesting one. There "It is necessary, therefore, for us to is quite a lot in it that I could read but modify the opinion that it was essentially that, perhaps, is unnecessary. However, I right to have a system under which each do want to say that Mr. Hanlon in his vote had exactly the same value. The reply to the Leader of the Opposition said area alone of electorates in the outback that, if he was going to be Premier and country justifies the lower quota of electors per member than operates in the city. I there was to be an increase in the number know perfectly well that my electorate of members, he would give the greater part contains approximately 13,000 to 14,000 of the additional representation to the electors and that of the hon. member for country. He said- Logan contains about 17,000 or 18,000, "That is what we are doing. We are but I am sure that honourable member g:iving the greater part of the representa­ will agree with me that his electors have tw~ to the country. The Bill proposes much more ready access to him than the tc: mcrease the country representation by electors of Carpentaria can have to their m17e .and . the city representation by four, member, notwithstanding that there are bn_ngmg It to 24. Therefore, it will be only 7,000 or 8,000 electors in that domg what the Leader of the Opposition district." suggested we should be doing." This is contrary to what hon. members He goes on further to say- opposite have claimed today. "T~e system we are adopting on this Mr. Hanion went on- occaswn of dividing the State into zones "The electors in some parts of the is one th~t i~ calculated to prevent an great electorates such as Warrego, Gregory, overwhelmmg mfluence in the capital city Barcoo and others are lucky if they can from at any time developing in the govern­ get in touch with their members of Parlia­ ment of the country. By making the ment once in five years." number of. members 75 and limiting the Members of Parliament in those days could repr~sentatwn of. the capital city, irres­ not have been as good as the present mem­ pective of populatiOn, to 24 we are making ber for Gregory, Mr. Wally Rae. sure that . there will be a majority of Mr. Hanlon went on to say: representatives of the people outside the capital city." "I say that the hon. member, living in comfort and luxury in the city of Brisbane, He then goes on to say- has a much better chance of keeping "By this measure we are providing that contact with his electors than ,the people the position will not arise where there of the Gregory or Warrego electorate, who will be overwhelming representation in are doing the worth-while work of this Parliament of the City of Brisbane. For country, have of getting contact with their ins.tance, if you allowed the City of member." Bnsbane to have 50 per cent. of the If hon. members wish ,to do so they can representation of this House you miaht read a good deal of what was said on very easily have a Government controlled the occasion of that redistribution Bill many entirely by City-of-Brisbane members of years ago. As I have said, it is on that Parliament; and the interests served would basis that this Bill has been introduced, be entirely those of the city . . ." to provide for the metropolitan city, pro­ That is what I say, too. vincial town and country seats. Hon. mem­ bers opposite cannot criticise or condemn Mr. Hanlon went on- the Bill on that basis. They have got ". . . and the interests of the country a long way from the policy of Labour of woul~ be lo~t sight of. We propose to that day and of the late Mr. Hanlon's see, Irrespective of population that the day. Labour has entered into the field of people of Brisbane will have' 24 repre­ Socialism and an association with Com­ sentatives in this House out of a total munists-characteristics completely different of 75. That is what is necessary in order from those of Labour in the early days; to safeguard the interests of the country. consequently Labour's interests have shifted from the far Outback to the large areas of "It must be remembered that while the population, wherever they might be. Hon. vast majority of electors are decent honest members opposite cannot deny these facts. people-good honest men and women who The reply I have made is the only one waf.lt . to do the right thing-the vast that is necessary to the many statements maJonty are not great thinkers ..." that have been made today. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3383

Mr. Bromley: I think these are the thoughts When this amendment is carried I shall move of "hot pants Petersen". a further amendment relative to the two zones we suggest. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: If the hon. member wishes to get me going, he is I have one or two words to say about the welcome to try. I would be very glad statements made by the Treasurer and the to tell him a good deal of the history Minister for Mines. They claimed that, at the of the Labour Party and what it stands present time, the A.L.P. advocates 52 seats in for and tell him how it has managed to the southern part of Queensland. This is operate up to the present time-as I said, completely untrue. Under existing legis­ far removed from the policy of the Labour lation, Brisbane has 28 seats. Within a lOO­ ,Party in the late Mr. Hanlon's day. mile radius of Brisbane there are another 13 seats. That makes a total of 41 seats. I move the second reading. Within a lOO-mile radius of Brisbane, as the Question-That the Bill be now read a crow flies, there are another five seats. That second time-put; and the House divided- makes a total of 46 seats. The Government's proposal is for four extra seats. This makes AYES, 46 a total of 50. Aikens Knox Armstrong Lee Mr. Camm: We are not advocating any Bird Lickiss Bje!ke-Petersen Lonergan number. Cam m Low Camp bell McKechnie Mr. HOUSTON: You have already said Chalk Miller Chinch en Moore, R. E. so. Read your speech. You advocated Cory M tiller two extra seats for Brisbane, an extra seat Crawford Murray in the North and an extra seat in the Gold Delamothe Newbery Diplock Porter Coast area. That makes four. And that is PI etcher Rae what I said. Therefore, there are four Heatley Ramsden seats in the Gold Coast area within 100 miles Herbert Richter Hewitt, N. T. E. Row of Brisbane. Hewitt, W. D. Sullivan Hinze Tomkins Mr. Camm: There are not four seats in Hodges Tooth the Gold Coast area; there are three. Hooper Wharton Houghton Hughes Tellers: Mr. HOUSTON: And you want an extra Hungerford Kaus seat. Let us have a look at what your Jones, V. E. Ahern redistribution did in 1958. NoEs, 31 Aiken Lloyd The CHAIRMAN: Order! Baldwin Margin son Bennett Melloy Mr. Camm: What about this one? Blake Newton Bousen O'Donnell Mr. HOUSTON: You went back to 1949 Bromley Sherrington Davies Thackeray and 1935. Davis Tucker Dean Wallis-Smith Mr. Camm: But not a particular clause. Hanlon Wood, B. Hanson Wood, P. Mr. HOUSTON: We are showing you why Harris Wright Houston we are throwing out your idea. That is why. Inch Tellers: There are only eight seats in North Queens­ Jensen land from Bowen to Cook, and there will be J ones, R. Casey Jordan Moore, F. P. one fewer under this redistribution. Resolved in the affirmative. Mr. Camm: How do you know? Mr. HOUSTON: You have already said COMMITTEE that Bowen will not be in existence. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair) Mr. Camm: We have not. We have put an extra seat in. Clauses 1 to 4, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Mr. HOUSTON: You have not put an Clause 5-Zones- extra seat in at all. Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the The CHAIRMAN: Order! I appeal to hon. Opposition) (11.1 p.m.): I move the follow­ members on both sides of the Chamber to ing amendment- cease their persistent interjections, and I "On page 3, line 3 omit the word­ ask the Leader of the Opposition to address 'three' his remarks to the Chair. and insert in lieu thereof the word­ Mr. HOUSTON: Yes. I accept the state­ 'two'.'' ment of the Minister for Mines that he or his It is obvious to all that the three zones colleagues put an extra seat in in North indicated by the Bill are impractical, not fair Queensland. to the electorate as a whole, and against the Mr. Camm: I didn't say we put an extra best interests of the people of Queensland. seat in North Queensland. 3384 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

Mr. HOUSTON: What did you say? Our suggestion will give a base quota for the western area. If normal procedure is Mr. Camm: We put an extra seat in followed, the commissioners will add the Townsville. total number of electors and divide by nine. Honourable Members interjected. That gives a quota of 8,720. I know that the other document contained the figure 8,500, Mr. HOUSTON: Mt. Isa is only a pro­ but that was calculated from election figures vincial city. At any rate, the Government of some time ago. Taking a tolerance of 20 has eight seats in North Queensland. In the per cent., the number of electors ranges from central part of Queensland, the Government 10,000 down to 6,900, which is, in my view, has 13 seats. The Government has already a fair margin for people living in western indicated that it is getting rid of one seat. areas. So far as the areas of the other 69 seats Mr. Camm: Where? are concerned, the base quota works out at Mr. HOUSTON: Isis, because of the way 12,789, which is again a reasonable figure. that Maryborough has been rigged. With the approved tolerance, the number will vary between 10,200 and 15,300. From Honourable Members interjected. that point on, all other determinations wili be up to the commission. Under our amend­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! Once again I ment the commission will be told, "We appeal to both the Minister for Mines and believe that there should basically be two the hon. member for Toowoomba East to zones. We want to take notice of the we,i­ contain themselves. The Leader of the ern areas." I quite agree that every member Opposition has the call, and he does not have of my party has the right to make sug!!es­ a great deal of time. I ask hon. members to tions. I concede that right to them. My party contain themselves. makes suggestions, but when it comes to legislation before this Committee 'I move Mr. HOUSTON: Let us look at what the amendments on behalf of the party accord­ Opposition proposes. We propose a western ing to what my caucus decides. Let that be zone, and we suggest that it be according to clear1y understood. That is what I have the last schedule. The Government talks included in this document. As far as I am about local authority boundaries. If one concerned, and as far as Queensland is con­ looks through the local authority boundaries, cerned, this is the A.L.P .'s official attitude to one will find that they are exactly the same as the local authority boundaries that the the Bill. Government used in the 1958 redistribution. It is obvious that some hon. members have In the number of seats and the total area, never seen the map. Let me read out some our proposition is no different from what of the local-authority areas. I will read the Government suggests. However, we have it all out- taken into account that there has been a "All that portion of the State of Queens­ reduction in the number of people in some land comprising the Areas constituted by areas. We are quite willing, and indeed the Shires of Cook, Douglas, Burke, Car­ happy, to say to western people, "We are pentaria, Mareeba, Croydon, Etheridge, prepared to submit to the commission that Herberton, Mount Isa, Cloncurry, McKin­ there be nine seats in that area." That is all lay, Richmond, Flinders, Dalrymple, we would say to the commission in respect Boulia, Winton, Longreach, Aramac, of the West. So far as the remainder of Belyando, Diamantina, Barcoo, Isisford, Queensland is concerned, we have said that IJfracombe, Barca!dine, Jericho, Peak there wiii be 69 seats. The Treasurer said Downs, Blackall, Tambo, Emerald, that our boundary was from Cairns to Quilpie, Bauhinia, Murweh, Booringa, Coolangatta. Bungil, Taroom, Bulloo, Paroo, Warroo, Bendemere, Murilla and Balonne.'' Mr. Chalk: I said "From Mossman to Coolangatta." Those who know the West will realise that that is the complete western area of the Mr. HOUSTON: That shows how far out State. Surely those people are entitled to the Treasurer was. some concession, but I am not going to determine it, nor are we on this side going Mr. Chalk: What about the map you dis­ to make the determination and say, "We tributed? have had a look at it and we reckon that Mr. HOUSTON: Here is the proof of the it should be so and so." We have not pudding. Irrespective of what happened in said that at all. We have said that we want the past, what we are now concerned with is the Government to agree to the two zones the Bill before the Committee. When we so that the commission can decide whether received the Bill, we did not vote on the 82 any particular one of these will be on the seats that the Premier wanted. We did not absolute quota or whether it will go up vote on the redistribution that the Treasurer or down. wanted. We have voted on what has been The rest of the State is what we refer to put before the House, and what is before the as the eastern part. I heard some criticism Committee now is, I believe, a fair and of the Country Party executive the other equitable redistribution for the people of day when the secretary of that party criti­ Queensland. cised the use of the words "The Great Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3385

Dividing Range". He said, "Where is it? high personal regard for that-but he cer­ Who knows exactly where it is. It winds tainly did mislead the House as well as some here, there and everywhere." Yet I found of his own cohort. I would not refer to them in the Bill the next day that the Government as helots, although, quite frankly, they are. had used the same term. When a person is He misled both the House and them when he speaking in general terms, he uses some said that when one talks of a Government or physical feature that indicates generally the a Premier approaching the Governor and position. When it comes to legislation, it asking for a dissolution of the House and the has to be pinpointed. right to hold an election on the present electoral boundaries, it is not quite as easy The Premier has said that it has taken as that. months to frame the Bill. I am asking him to tell me what is wrong with the suggestion. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I trust the hon. It gives the country people a fair go, and member will get back to the point. the rest of the State gets a fair go, too. It is a great pity for Queensland that I was Mr. AIKENS: I will get on to it. I am not invited to join in the discussions. The going to deal with the probability of this Government would not then have found amendment being carried. That is what I am itself facing its present problem. The dealing with, and I want to keep within the Premier said that the negotiators met on provisions of the amendment before the many occasions and arrived at what they Committee. regarded as the best deal for the coalition. I am not interested in the best deal for the Mr. Bennett: Well, get on to it. coalition. I am interested only in the best The CHAIRMAN: Order! deal for Queensland. Mr. AIKENS: And I want to put the hon. Mr. Chalk interjected. member for Toowong and every other mem­ Mr. HOUSTON: I defy the Treasurer to ber of this Committee right. I do not know get up and show me-- what is in the Premier's mind, but if this amendment is carried, and he accepts that as Mr. Chalk: Yes, I can. a reverse .to his Government and goes to the Governor, as he is entitled to do, and asks Mr. HOUSTON: The hon. gentleman can for a dissolution because the Government has argue all day long. The whole point is-- lost control of the Parliament, all that the Governor can do--this is where I want to Mr. Chalk interjected. put the hon. member for Toowong and many Mr. HOUSTON: I know that the Treasurer other hon. members right-is to grant him is not game to put anything in writing. the dissolution he seeks or send for the Government members do not trust each Leader of the Opposition and ask him if he other; that is their whole trouble. The has sufficient members to form a Govern­ Treasurer can argue all day long but can ment. In order to give the Governor an he tell me what is wrong with the amend­ assurance that he had sufficient members to ment? That is all that there is before the form a Government, the Leader of the Committee-nothing else. Opposition would have to give him, as sup­ porting the Opposition, the names of nine We believe that the State can be effectively members who are now on the Government divided into two zones without any political side. He must have 40 members to control advantage to one party or another, par­ the House. He would need one member to ticularly if the commission is headed by a put in the chair, which would leave him with Supreme Court judge. I put my complete a majority. faith in the integrity of our judiciary, con­ trary to what the Minister for Justice tried Mr. BENNETI: I rise to a point of order. to say. When I used the word "justice", I What has this submission to do with the was talking about general justice in an amendment? administrative sense and not legal justice. I The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have twice give the assurance that as far as legal asked the hon. member to get back to the justice is concerned I am very happy with clause, and on each occasion he merely indi­ what is dispensed by those on the Bench in cated why he was voting one way or the Queensland. As I wish to leave a few other. minutes for a later amendment to this clause, if necessary, I conclude on that assurance. Mr. AIKENS: That is all I am doing. I have almost finished. I am putting the Com­ Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (11.15 mittee right, because I think that as the senior p.m.): I have the list of amendments pro­ member here it is my duty to do so. Let us posed by the A.L.P. This is the first of many assume that this amendment is carried and that are designed to substitute for the zonal that the Premier accepts it as a defeat of his provisions of the Bill the proposed zonal Government. He asks the Governor for a provisions of the A.L.P. In all sincerity, I dissolution and the Governor sends for the want to put the Committee right on a state­ Leader of the Opposition, who tells him that ment made earlier by the hon. member for he can form a Government. What are the Toowong. I should not like to say that he names of the nine Government members that wittingly misled the House-I hold him in he will give the Governor? 3386 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ Mr. Bennett: And crawl up a hollow ber knows very well that he has made his log. point. I ask him now to get back to the amendment. The CHAIRMAN: Order! J\k AIKENS: I am very happy to do so, Mr. PORTER: I make it quite plain that Mr. Hooper, because you are noted for your those of us who wish to speak on amendments fairness and also for the fact that you cannot or move amendments are concerned only be browbeaten by either the Opposition or with amending the Bill in ways which we the Government. think are for the better. In no sense what­ Having made that point, I just want to say ever is the fate of the Government involved. this with regard to all these amendments: as The Bill was not introduced with the proviso I said previously, I am not very enamoured that it must be carried in its entirety, other­ of the provisions of the Bill. They are not in wise it would be regarded as a vote of no accordance with my conception of what a confidence in the Government. I would redistribution should be-a redistribution think that to attempt to introduce such a with a maximum of 60 seats-- proviso during the. Committee stage of the Bill would be qmte out of order. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister Mr. AIKENS: But I have to ask myself for Mines and Main Roads) (11.23 p.m.): if the amendments are better than the provi­ In moving the amendment, the Leader of sions of the Bill. Of the two evils, I have the Opposition has indicated his complete to choose the lesser. lack of knowledge of what ~ redistri_bution really means. Time and time aga11! ~e Tile CHAIRMAN: Order! Clause 5 deals have indicated that in order to mamtam with zones. The hon. member indicated that effective redistribution community of interest he was going to inform the Committee which in the various areas of population throughout way he intended to vote. I allowed him Queensland must be retained. that latitude. I now ask him to continue debating clause 5. Mr. Sherrington: What a joke! Mr. AIKENS: I am very happy to do Mr. CAMM: The Opposition has decided that, Mr. Hooper. that there should be 69 seats in the eastern The amendment to clause 5 simply means zone and nine in the western zone, and _that that we omit the word "three" and substitute the seats in the eastern zone should be given the word "two", which sets up the two zones a quota of 12,789 ele~tors. If th~t _quo~a that are envisaged in the A.L.P.'s redistribu­ is retained, and even If the commiSSI~n IS tion plan. That is the amendment before given power to vary it by 20 per cen~. e1the_r the Committee. Because the amendment is way, the stage is reached where a httle ~It tied up with the A.L.P.'s redistribution plan, of Townsville will be left out of that City I cannot convince myself that the whole of and a little bit of Ipswich will be left <;JUt that plan is better than the Bill, although as of that city, simply becau~e an .ef~ectJve I say, I am not very enamoured of the redistribution cannot be obtamed w1thm the Bill itself. Consequently, I am not in favour city areas unless-- of the amendment. Mr. Houston: What have you done in Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (11.20 p.m.): I Toowoomba? You have taken out a little believe that the amendment submitted by the bit of Toowoomba and put it in Lockyer. Leader of the Opposition is perhaps too much of a leap from the situation that we have Mr. CAMM: That is right. We created known for many years to bring about com­ a provincial cities zone, and the present plete voting equality over the whole of the population is the quota. Because we have State. Perhaps we will see it eventually, a provincial cities zone, that does not mean but the realities of the situation make the that the quotas for all the provincial city amendment unacceptable to me at this stage. electorates will be the same. As you know, Mr. Hooper, I shall be sub­ mitting a further amendment to clause 5 Mr. Houston: No! You don't want them when the Committee has disposed of the to be the same. one under debate. Mr. CAMM: No, we do not want them It is most unfortunate that those who to be the same. have deep convictions in this matter and A little while ago the Leader of the who wish to move amendments to a machinery provision of the Bill should be Opposition questioned me about North branded as people who want to pull down Mackay and asked why it should not be the Government. This is totally untrue. in Mackay. I like North Mackay; I grew up in the Mackay area and I am qu~te Mr. Aikens: But you will pull it down. happy to have it in my electorate. I pomt out to the Leader of the Opposition that Mr. PORTER: I do not accept that at I have never won in the area of North all. The hon. member for Townsville South Mackay; I get an adverse vote in that is a bush lawyer. He should go back to area. If I wanted to play politics I would the bush. be the first to say, "Give it to the member Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH} Electoral Districts Bill 3387 for Mackay. He has made a mess of advance such an amendment on a Bill that his own business affiairs, so let him make has been well thought out in the last few a mess of the people of North Mackay." months. Opposition Members interjected. Hon. .J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (11.28 p.m.): Every aspect of fair The CHAIRMAN: Order! redistribution has been considered by the Government. The suggestions outlined by Mr. CAMM: I told the member for the Leader of the Opposition, in the Gov­ Mackay that if he butted in at any time ernment's opinion, do not give a fair repre­ during my speech he would have to take sentation to country areas, including, of what was coming to him, and he butted in course, the smaller country centres and coun­ a while ago. try\ towns. I have said, and I have emphasised again and again, that the Bill I \+ant to see the people of North Mackay before us is similar to that of the late enjoy a measure of prosperity. I want to Mr. Hanlon and Sir Francis Nicklin. Why see that area of Queensland develop into should these principles be wrong today if something worth while. In all its years of they were right then? Obviously ,the thinking Labour representation, the Mackay city area of hon. members opposite has been slanted has not gone ahead to the same extent as by their desire to gain political advantage the North Mackay area has advanced while at the exnense of certain sections of the I have been representing it for a short people. B"ecause of that, it is completely 10 years. During those 10 years that part unacceptable to me and to the Government. of Queensland has increased its electoral enrolment by almost 2,000 voters. The hon. Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (11.29 p.m.): member should not talk about my manipulat­ The Opposition cannot let the Deputy Leader ing the redistribution, nor should he ask of the Country Party get away with a why I did not pass North Mackay over snide, sinister attack on the hon. member to the Mackay electorate. I like North for Mackay. Mackay and I want it to stay in my area. It is up to the commissioners to decide Mr. Camm.: I did not attack him. where that part of Queensland will go in the redistribution. We have not told them. Opposition Members interjected. We have only said that the City of Mackay Mr. Houston: You did. is a provincial city and that the boundary shall be the City of Mackay; that is what The CHAIRMAN: Order! we have said in the Bill. Mr. Camm: I want to represent the area Mr. Tucker: Do you think it should and do something for it. go to Heron Island? The CHAIRMAN: Order! When the Com­ mittee comes to order, I will again call Mr. CAMM: No; I do not want it to on the honourable member for Belmont. go to Heron Island. Mr. Hughes interjected. I honestly believe, and hope, that I will still be able to represent that part of The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. Queensland because I feel that the people member for Kurilpa to contain himself. of the area realise ,that I am doing a good job. Mr. NEWTON: It is not my intention to be political about this matter. However, The Opposition is suggesting two zones. I think that the attack made by the Deputy A little while ago the Leader of the Opposi­ Leader of the Country Party on the hon. tion said that we will have 43 seats within member for Mackay was dirty and personal, 100 miles of Brisbane. If we were to and it cannot be accepted by the Opposition. adopt the two zonal system outlined by the Leader of the Opposition, there is no I suppo1i the amendment moved by the doubt that we would have over 50 seats Leader of the Opposition. The A.L.P.'s policy within I 00 miles of Brisbane. Is that the on redistribution has been made quite clear. sort of representation the people of Queens­ Whether the commission or the Government land want? To get that number of seats takes any notice of it does not concern us. within 100 miles of Brisbane the A.L.P. At least we have made our position known would have to eliminate some of the out­ to the electors of Queensland. lying country electorates. How can Labour Mr. Camm: Tell that to the country increase representation within 100 miles of people. Brisbane without eliminating cities in the far-flung areas of the State? Mr. NEWTON: We have heard that time and time again. The Minister is wasting Mr. Aikens: You are against the amend­ time. ment? Mr. Chalk: You are wasting time, too. Mr. CAMM: I am certainly against the amendment. It is plain to me that very little Mr. NEWTON: As a member of the arithmetic has been done by the Leader of Labour Party, I am entitled to state my the Opposition and his party, when they opinion in this Chamber, and I will state it. 3388 Electoral Districts Bill (30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

The Deputy Leader of the Country Party Mr. HOUSTON: I rise to a point of order. entered the argument and drew a comparison I deny that I made that statement, and I between Mackay and Whitsunday. The clause, ask for its withdrawal. in effect, lays down the terms of reference for a commission, irrespective of its mem­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Leader of the Opposition has denied making the bers. The Government states in the clause statement attributed to him by the hon. what the zones will be. member for Carnarvon, and has asked for Mr. Camm: I referred only to Mackay. its withdrawal. I ask the hon. member to withdraw it. Mr. NEWTON: Now the hon. gentleman says he referred only to Mackay. He rose on Mr. McKECHNIE: I accept the hon. behalf of the Government and opposed the member's denial, but it is clear in my mind amendment moved by the Leader of the that he did say it. However, I accept his denial. Opposition. Therefore, he is not arguing about what is happening in Mackay. He The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Leader of presented a case supporting what is contained the Opposition has asked that the statement in the Bill. He is in favour of three zones. be withdrawn, and I ask the hon. member for Carnarvon to do so. Mr. Camm: You are getting a bit tangled up. Mr. McKECHNIE: Very well, I withdraw it. The point that I wish to make is that there Mr . .:\'EWTO::\': Not at all. are 14 electorates west of the Great Dividing Range, and an intimation has been given Mr. Camm: You were going to eliminate tonight that there will be only nine seats there. the provincial-city zone. It therefore is only natural for one to gain the impression that five western seats will be Mr. NEWTON: I ask the hon. gentleman eliminated. To this I am opposed. That is not to make such ridiculous statements. The the point I wish to make. A.L.P. advocates 69 eastern-zone seats and nine western seats. The eastern-zone seats Question-That the word proposed to be will put every provincial city and town on omitted from clause 5 (Mr. Houston's amend­ the coast on an equal basis. Anybody--even ment) stand part of the clause-put; and the my five-year-old child-could understand Committee divided- that. AYEs, 45 As I said earlier, I support the amendment Ab ern Kaus moved by the Leader of the Opposition. If Aikens Knox Armstrong Lee the clauses are to be debated as they come Bird Lickiss before the Committee, hon. members on this Bjelke-Petersen Lonergan Camm Low side of the Chamber must have the right to Camp bell Miller speak to them. As long as I am a member Chalk M tiller Chinchen Murray of the A.L.P., I will defend that right, just Cory Newbery as I rose on this occasion to defend the hon. Crawford Porter Delamothe Rae member for Mackay. Dip lock Ramsden F!etcher Richter Mr. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon) (11.34 Heatley Row Herbert Sullivan p.m.): I wish to raise only one matter. The Hewitt, N. T. E. Tomkins Leader of the Opposition said that there Hewitt, W. D. Tooth Hinze Wharton would be nine electorates west of the range. Hodges Houghton Hughes Tellers: Mr. HOUSTON: I rise to a point of order. Hungerford McKechnie I did not say that. I read out the local Jones, V. E. Moore,R. E. authorities. If the hon. member does not know the local authority areas of Queens­ NoEs, 31 land, he cannot blame me. I deny that I said Aiken Jordan there were nine seats west of the range. Ba!dwin Lloyd Bennett Marginson Blake Melloy Mr. McKECHNIE: I accept that the Bousen Moore, F. P. Bromley Newton Leader of the Opposition did read out the Casey O'Donnell local authority areas, and I know them. But Davies Sherrington in another statement he said that, broadly Davis Thackeray Dean Tucker speaking, there would be nine electorates Hanlon W allis-Smith west of the range. Hanson Wright Harris Houston Mr. Houston: I did not say that. Inch Tellers: Jensen Wood, B. Mr. McKECHNIE: The hon. gentleman Jones, R. Wood, P. did, earlier. On my list there are 14. Resolved in the affirmative. Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3389

Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (11.40 p.m.): Mr. Chalk: That's right, but you accept the The next amendment has been circulated, responsibility. even if not as fully as one might wish. This is the crucial amendment. Most of the others Mr. PORTER: I am accepting the responsi­ are consequential. bility, surely. I do regret that something I now move- should be made of this fact and that words such as 'the ginger group' should be used, "On page 3, lines 4 to 14, omit the as I think this would suggest to people a words- rather shabby technique that is adopted by 'Zone 1, which shall be called the people who are not fully persuaded about "Metropolitan Zone", and which shall their cause, that is, to attack the person and comprise that portion of the State of not the argument. I thought that when I Queensland more particularly described spoke at the second-reading stage I had gone in Part I of the Schedule to this Act; some way towards ensuring that the debate 'Zone 2, which shall be called the would not deteriorate in this fashion. I "Provincial Cities Zone", and which regret that it has. shall comprise those portions of the State This amendment flows from my party's of Queensland more particularly des­ long-standing attitude in respect of repre­ cribed in Part II of the Schedule to this sentation of voters in electorates. It also Act; flows from the party's overwhelming con­ 'Zone 3, which shall be called the siderations at a council meeting during the "Country Zone", and which shall com­ past week-end, and is certainly in line with prise that portion of the State of Queens­ our basic insistence over the years. land more particularly described in Part In this regard, let me briefly mentio!1 III of the Schedule to this Act. another matter that I regret. I suppose Jt and insert in lieu thereof the words- flows from the heat of the debate. It is 'Zone 1, which shall be called the the reference to Mr. David Russell, of the Eastern Zone and which shall comprise Dalbv branch. In fact, whatever branch those portions of the State of Queensland may ·put up a resolution the only point at more particularly described in Part I of issue is: what did the council as a whole the First Schedule to this Act; do about it? Of course, the council as a 'Zone 2, which shall be called the whole overwhelmingly adopted it. South Western Zone and which shall Mr. Chalk: They amended it. comprise those portions of the State of Queensland more particularly described in Mr. PORTER: If the Committee wished, Part II of the First Schedule to this Act; I would read the total amendment but I do 'Zone 3, which shall be called the not think this would help the comments from vVestern Zone and which shall comprise the ministerial bench. This amendment aims those portions of the State of Queensland at trying to improve what in the Bill as it more particularly described in Part III stands at the moment is an unbalanced zonal of the First Schedule to this Act. programme, which, because of its imbalance, '(2) Zone 1 (the Eastern Zone) shall has a necessary detailed, and in some cases be and is hereby divided into two regions extraordinary, pattern of electoral districts. of representation, that is to say:- In fact, this amendment retains three zones South-Eastern Region, which shall but it defilles them somewhat differently comprise those portions of the State of from the Bill. There will be a western Queensland included in the Eastern zone with six seats, a south-western zone Zone that are more particularly with six seats, and an eastern zone, from described in Part I of the Second the range to the seaboard, for the balance Schedule to this Act; of the State with 66 seats. Eastern Region, which shall com­ This eastern zone of 66 seats is divided prise those portions of the State of into two regions-a south-eastern region, Queensland included in the Eastern from Coomora to the border and out to Zone that are more particularly des­ Toowoomba, which will have 45 seats, and cribed in Part II of the Second an eastern region, which is literally from Schedule to this Act.' " Gympie to Cooktown and which will have I hope that too much will not be made of 21 seats. The quotas of these zones and the fact that I am moving this amendment. regions would be: in the western zone of It is not totally mine-- six seats, about 8,460; in the south-west zone of six seats, about 9,630; in the south­ Mr. Chalk: You have designed it. Don't east region of the eastern zone of 45 seats, sneak out from under. 13,225, and, in the eastern region of the Mr. PORTER: I have no desire to sneak eastern zone of 21 seats, 12,250. out from under. Had I wished to do so I In all of those seats it is suggested that would not be standing here. The amendment there should be a permissible 20 per cent. represents the work of a group of people. variation from the quota, with the exception I am sorry that the Deputy Premier should of the western zone, where a later amend­ speak in that way. This morning he gave a ment will suggest that there should be a clear indication that he would permit us­ permissible 40 per cent. variation. I think indeed, he encouraged us--to speak as we wish. that is a very generous gesture to the 109 3390 Electoral Districts Bill [30 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

problems that are accepted as existing in 2 and 3, the Government has ~ug­ these remote and emptier areas. It is gested 12 seats, whereas we suggested nme, certainly a greater gesture by far than and without the same area of coverage. In occurs in a State like Western Australia, other words, the main difference between the which has a similar geographical problem to two proposals is that the A.L.P. proposal ours. left far more for the commissioners to decide The subsequent descriptions of the zones on boundaries and quotas, whereas under and regions, which literally make four areas the proposed amendment Parliament will lay in all for definition with different quotas, will down the three zones. I do not go along with that as being the best idea, but, as be based on electoral districts except in I have said, compared with the shocking pro­ very minor respects. I believe that this vision that is already contained in the Bill, is infinitely better; it is easier for all to it is desirable. understand, and of course it is in line with the practice in other States. The Liberal and Country parties, through their executives, are supposed to have been I apologise to the Committee for the arguing for 10 months, and another section inadequacy of the available number of of the Liberal Party has now moved an copies of the proposed amendments but amendment that, if coupled with ours, would I pay tribute to the Assistant Parliam~ntary create a basis on which it would not be Draftsman, Mr. Murray, who has done a difficult to come up with something acceptable yeoman task in providing them. It has to all concerned. A satisfactory conclusion been a very hard day for both of us. could have been arrived at if arrogance and I believe that the amendment is fair to other factors had not intruded into the all. It gives due recognition to those factors original discussions. Without labouring the of population change that in my view can­ point, I indicate that the Opposition is pre­ not properly be ignored. I think all the pared to accept the amendment as the second arguments in favour of the Bill as it stands best of three proposals. Naturally we at. the moment, and those that undoubtedly consider ours is the best one. will be adduced against this amendment Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (11.54 rest on the very simple proposition that p.m.): At the second-reading stage we heard 'Y~ilst .all people may be equal, some people a vehement speech made by the Deputy hvmg m country a:eas are much more equal Leader of the "ginger" group, the hon. mem­ !han o!hers. ~!le one accepts a certain ber for Clayfield. He dealt fully with the mequahty, I believe that the Bill as it stands need for equality, and asked, "Why is one goes much too far. man better than another?" If we accept the proposition so ardently Mr. Bennett interjected. expounded by some people that there is a vast inequality between people living in Mr. AIKENS: I am not quite sure whether urban areas, who are supposedly inferior my arithmetic is as good as that of any other and those living in rural areas, who are t~ hon. member-it certainly would be better be regarded as vastly superior people in than that of the hon. member for South terms of their voting strength, we reach Brisbane-but I notice from the mover's a stage when almost anything can happen, remarks, allowing for the 20 per cent varia­ when the most extraordinary variations can tion in one area and the 40 per cent. variation become possible and we can rationalise and in another area that this amendment defend them. I for one cannot entertain proposes, that one electorate could have that proposition. in this day and age, and 15,600 voters and another could have 4,800 I am 9mte convmced that the great majority voters. The only thing that puts me a little of ordmary people will not entertain it either. bit off colour is that we start off with three I believe that if the Bill is passed in its zones, the A.L.P. wants ,two zones, and this present form the Government is likely to amendment proposes three zones with one cut pay a very high price for denying the public in half, which makes four zones. The result those basic equities of electoral justice that is that we are getting more confused than are taken for granted in the Commonwealth ever. The provincial cities have gone by the sphere and in the other States. board. They are thrown onto the scrap-heap I put the amendment forward in all by this amendment. sincerity, believing that it will be fair to Mr. Wright: So will you be. all and will give an opportunity to all. It will be seen by the people to be a fair Mr. AIKENS: It is quite possible that I redistribution, and from it this Parliament, will be thrown on the scrap-heap. I am the Government and the State will gain quite prepared to take what is coming to me. considerably. I cannot accept this amendment. It is so long, so complex and so confused that I Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the seriously doubt whether the mover of it Opposition) (11.52 p.m.): The Opposition knows what it means. must consider whether or not this amend­ ment will give the people of Queensland a Hon. .J. B.JELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah better deal than the provision of the Bill. -Premier) (11.56 p.m.): I have no intention, In the short time that we have been given of course, of accepting the amendment moved to analyse it, we are struck by the fact by the hon. member for Toowong. At the that in the western zones, namely, zones introductory stage, and on the second reading Electoral Districts Bill [30 & 31 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill 3391 of the Bill, I clearly enunciated the principles, Mr. HUGHES: That is the hon. member's and they have been accepted by the House. personal mathematics. Before today, in pre­ This proposal is completely untenable. I vious debates in this Chamber, we have learnt repeat that it strikes at the very core of the that we cannot always abide by his state­ Bill's principles, namely, that the State should ments because we doubt his veracity. be divided into three zones, that is, the metropolitan zone, the provincial cities zone We should amend this clause because, and the country zone. My Government just in broad principle, we should leave the cannot accept such a departure from the question of quotas to a commission, which whole concept and purport of the Bill. should have full power over them in any redistribution. The commission would be It is regrettable that the hon. member cognisant of the views of interested parties has seen fit to attempt to have the Bill's prin­ and organisations. This amendment will pro­ ciples altered to this extent in the Committee vide for greater relativity between quotas, stage. The Government has decided that this will remove disparities and will ensure a fair, vital redistribution shall be effected solely just and impartial redistribution. It will on the basis laid down in the Bill. There is remove any suspicion of gerrymander which no intention on the part of the Government the public could well be excused for having to accept the amendment proposed. if this amendment is not carried. Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) (11.57 p.m.): I have but a few comments to make about this provision because I spoke at some length on [Wednesday, 31 March, 1971] it during the second-reading stage. I must Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer­ point out that I have not spoken to any Treasurer) (12.1 a.m.): I believe I dealt A.L.P. member about this Bill and that I fairly fully with the position at the second­ did not see any of the amendments until reading stage. What is proposed by the hon. this afternoon. I had my personal ideas, member for Toowong negates the whole of I have studied the Bill, and I have discussed the negotiations which took place among the it with a number of my colleagues at Liberal Premier, the Deputy Leader of the Country Party meetings. Party, the Deputy Leader of the Liberal I should say in relation to the claim that PartY and me. It negates the whole arrange­ there have been considerable negotiations ment we had relative to the presentation of over a protracted period, that that is not this Bill. During the second-reading stage, exactly correct, except in the sense that they I forecast that the A.L.P. would vote with commenced some long time ago. However, a section of the Liberal Party to defeat this it must be remembered that there was a break Bill. I want the people of Queensland to in negotiations from May last year until know that the A.L.P. and a number of February of this year, when things got under Liberal Party members, if this is carried, way again. In February, and after, that bear responsibility for the defeat of this there was a bustle and a rush, and in the particular law. last 10 days we saw a virtual panic to intro­ Opposition Members interjected. duce the Bill. The clauses in the Bill were not seen by members of the Government parties; The CHAIRMAN: Order! I warn the hon. they did not see them until the Bill was pre­ member for Burke. sented to the House. The Bill was not debated in any way at a joint Government A Government Member: Throw him out. party meeting. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I remind hon. Because certain aspects of the Bill concerned members that the Chair does not want to members, at least a request properly put to the Premier, bearing in mind these factors-- have to do this. Question-That the words proposed to be The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have allowed omi.tted from clause 5 (Mr. Porter's amend­ the hon. member some latitude because other ment) stand part of the clause-put; and the hon. members have taken it. However, I Committee divided- would appreciate it if he would get back to the amendment before the Committee. AYES, 38 Ahem Lee Mr. Aikens: He is wandering all over the Aikens Lonergan place. Armstrong Low Bird McKechnie The CHAIRMAN: Order! Bjelke-Petersen. Moore,R. E. Camm MUller Mr. HUGHES: At least I am not a Camp bell Newbery psychiatrist's dream like the hon. member for Chalk Nicho!son Delamothe Rae Townsville South. Diplock Ramsden There are ways and means by which Fletcher Richter Heatley Row the public could be shown that there is to be Herbert Sullivan a fair and just redistribution; that there is a Hewitt, N. T. E. Tomkins relevance in the quotas; that there are no Hinze Tooth Hodges Wharton large and glaring disparities-- Houghton Hungerford Tellers: Mr. Aikens: One with 15,000 and one with Iones, V. E. Cory 4,000. Knox Kaus 3392 Electoral Districts Bill [30 & 31 MARCH] Electoral Districts Bill

NoEs, 39 Question put; and the Committee divided- Aiken Lloyd Baldwin Marginson AYES, 45 Bennett Mel!oy Blake Miller Ahern Kaus Bousen Moore, F. P. Aikens K.nox Brom!ey Murray Armstrong Lickiss Casey Newton Bird Lonergan Chinchen O'Donnell Bjelke-Petersen Low Crawford Porter Cam m McKechnie navies Sherrington Campbell Miller Dean Thackeray Chalk Moore, R. E. Hanlon Tucker Chinchen Murray Hanson W allis-Smith Cory Newbery Harris Wood, B. Crawford Porter Hewitt, W. D. Wood,P. Delamothc Rae Houston Wright Diplock Ramsden Hughes Fletcher Richter Inch Heatley Row Jones, R. Tellers: Herbert Sullivan Jordan Davis Hewitt, N. T. E. Tomkins Lie kiss Jensen Hewitt, W. D. Tooth Hinze Wharton Resolved in the negative. Hodges Houghton Tellers: Hughes Question-That the words proposed to be Hungerford Lee inserted in clause 5 (Mr. Porter's amendment) Jones, V. E. M tiller be so inserted-put; and the Committee divided- NoEs, 31 Marginson AYES, Aiken 39 Bennett Melloy Blake Moore, F. P. Aiken Lloyd Bromley Newton Baldwin Marginson Casey O'Donnell Bennett Mel!oy navies Sherrington B!ake Miller navis Thackeray Bousen Moore, F. P. Dean Tucker Bromley Murray Hanlon WaJ!is-Smith Casey Newton Wood, B. Chinchen Hanson O'Donnell Harris Wood, P. Crawford Porter Wright Davies Sherrington Houston Dean Thackeray Inch Jensen Tellers: Hanlon Tucker Jones, R. Hanson Wallis-Smith Jordan Baldwin Harris Wood, B. Lloyd Bousen Hewitt, W. D. Wood,P. Houston Wright Hughes Resolved in the affirmative. Inch Jones, R. Tellers: Jordan Davis Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Lickiss Jensen -Premier): I move- "That the House do now adjourn." NoEs, 38 Ahern Lee Mr. BENNETI: I rise to a point of Aikens Lonergan order. Armstrong Low Bird McKechnie Bjelke-Petersen Moore, R. E. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! There can be no Camm M tiller point of order when there is a motion before Camp bell Newbery Chalk Nicholson the House. Delamothe Rae Dip!ock Ramsden Honourable Members interjected. Fletcher Richter Heatley Row Herbert Sullivan Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Hewitt, N. T. E. Tomkins Hinze Tooth Mr. Davis: We raised a point of order, Hodges Wharton Houghton but we could not have it heard. Hungerford Tellers: Jones, V. E. Cory Mr. BENNE'IT: I again rise to a point Knox Kaus of order. I do not respect the Chair when Resolved in the affirmative. I am refused a point of order.

Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member -Premier) (12.17 a.m.): Mr. Hooper, in should know that he cannot raise a point view of what has arisen and in order that I of order when there is a motion before the may review the position in which I find House. myself, I move- Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. "That you do now leave the chair, The House adjourned at 12.27 a.m. report progress and ask leave to sit again." (Wednesday).