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Title items-in-Peace-keeping operations - Middle East - Secretary-General's conversations at the Hague
Date Created 01/01/1000
Record Type Archival Item
Container S-0861 -0006: Peace-Keeping Operations Files of the Secretary-General: U Thant: Middle East
Print Name of Person Submit Image Signature of Person Submit UNITED NATIONS NATIONS UNIES
S - ' *^LJ-^_.i^
MEETING OH 9TH APRIL IN TREVESSAAL, THE HAGUE,
WITH MEMBERS OP DUTCH GOVERNMENT
Those present:
— Mr. Joseph. Luns, Minister of Foreign Affairs - Mr. B.J. Udink, Minister of Development Aid - Mr. de Ranitz, Director-General, Political Affairs, Dutch Foreign Office — Mr. de Koster, State Secretary, Minister of Foreign Affairs — Mr. Jan Meyer, Director-General, International Co—operation - Mr. E. Pack, Foreign Office
The FOREIGN MINISTER, after repeating the welcome of the Dutch Government to the SECRETARY-GENERAL, outlined the proposed agenda:- Viet-Nam, Middle East, West Irian, the New Building for the International Court, Development Aid, the Second UNCTAD Conference, and lastly the Non-Proliferation Treaty. He asked if the SECRETARY-GENERAL would he kind enough to comment on Point I.
I - VIETNAM
The SECRETARY-GENERAL gave a detailed expose of his views on the Viet—Nam situation — the historical facts, the present position and future objectives.
Mr. LOTS thanked the SECRETARY-GENERAL for his detailed summary. The Netherlands, he said, felt that American military withdrawal in Asia might have unfortunate repercussions in Europe. There were, in fact, those who also opposed the UNITED NATIONS mm® NATIONS UNIES
American presence in Europe. Recently, on a visit to Holland, the Israeli Foreign Minister had expressed fears for the very existence of his country if the Americans withdrew from Asia. Mr. LUNS went on to point out that conventional military forces in Western Europe were far inferior to those of Soviet Union. The Government of the Netherlands feared that if North Viet-Nam should triumph, tlien, similar events could take place elsewhere in Asia. The Government was in favour of an honorable peace and supported the recent American moves. The Netherlands Government, in principle, disagreed with the permanent division of countries although it saw no possibility of immediate unifi- cation of Viet—Ham. The Netherlands Government envisaged some settlement along the lines of the Geneva Agreement and would have liked the United Nations to play a part. The fact that neither Peking nor Hanoi wished to see the United Nations involved was, in the view of the Dutch Government, regrettable.
Mr. LUNS spoke of the motion in the second House of the Dutch Parliament asking the Government to approach other European countries to see what possible action could be taken to bring about peace in Viet-Nam. He then described the varying opinions of the European Governments - both Eastern and Western - with which he had been in contact. He read the content of a proposed message from the Netherlands Government to Hanoi which had been envisaged. As he said, however, many of these moves were perhaps now academic, considering the turn events had taken. He wanted, however, to acquaint the SECRETARY-GENERAL with these facts. If the SECRETARY-GENERAL wished any help from the Netherlands Govern- ment, at any time, he had only to ask for it. The Netherlands Government, for its part, would inform the SECRETARY-GENERAL of any further initiative it proposed to take.
The SECRETARY-GENERAL spoke of the impossibility of military victory or defeat. The defeat of the United States was not contemplated. The Soviet Union would not permit Hanoi to be defeated. Many Asians wanted the United States to be otherwise involved in the area - economically.
The SECRETARY-GENERAL then explained the difficulties of United Nations involvement.
II - MIDDLE EAST
The Israeli Foreign Minister, Mr. ABBA EBAN, had been on an UNITED NATIONS Kif NATIONS UNIES
official visit to the Netherlands some days "before the Secretary-General's arrival. Mr. LOTS explained that Mr. EBAJST had given the Butch Government a detailed view of how he saw the Middle East situation to-day. Mr. LOTS wished to "bring the details of this conversation to the Secretary-General's attention.
Mr. EBA1 had stated that the Government of Israel was willing to carry out the terms of the Security Council resolution. They saw it, however, as a two-sided affair. They did not feel that they could implement it unilaterally. In fact, they wanted to negotiate. They looked favourably upon Ambassador Jarring1 s efforts.
Mr. LOTS stated that he had informed Mr. EBAN of Holland's reaction to the last Israeli military reprisal and Mr. EBABF had stated that he felt there would "be no repetition of such ""bad public relations". Israel is aware of the fact that its position is not well known abroad - the position is thought to be more rigid than, in fact, it is. Mr. EBAN stated that he was contemplating a statement of explanation in Parliament.
On the question of the evacuation of troops, Israel's position was that this should take place after the fixing of the frontiers.
On the question of relations with the U.A.R., Israel could not accept a return to the previous position in the Gaza strip. Israel would want a joint garrison in Sharm-el- Sheik. The Golan Range could not remain in the possession of Syria.
With regard to JERUSALEM, Israel would be prepared to arrange a diplomatic status for the Holy Places and that Haram-el-Cherif should return to Jordan sovereignty.
With regard to the west bank of the Jordan, Mr. EBAN made certain suggestions. He said that once negotiations had begun, Israel was thinking of a United Nations "presence", not designed to separate the parties but designed to integrate them. One might think of a regime similar to the Benelux, i.e. different states but free movement of people and common economic and social objectives. The actual free movement of Arabs and Israelis should be institutionalised in some way such as this. UNITED NATIONS f«l NATIONS UNIES
The SECRETARY-GENERAL explained the present position of the Jarring mission and the attitude taken to it by the two sides.
Foreign Minister LOTS repeated Mr. EBAN's statement that "Israel could not tolerate a force at Sharm-el-Sheik of which they did not form a part" - thus evolved the idea of a "joint force".
On the question of a United Nations "presence", Mr. LOTS said that Israel wanted assurances that no one country could decide on the withdrawal of such a force. Israel would welcome Dutch participation in a force and the Dutch Government was willing to offer such participation.
Ill - WEST NEW GUINEA (WEST IRIAN)
The Dutch FOREIGN MINISTER expressed the view that the present Indonesian Government was prepared to carry out in good faith the agreement of 19&2. The 19&9 consultation was approaching. The SECRETARY-GENERAL had appointed his Represent- ative under Article 17. Mr. LUNS asked how the Indonesian Government viewed the work of the Representative. The SECRETARY- GENERAL replied that he hoped the mission would function smoothly. The "beginning of the work had "been advanced to the middle of July 1968. Mr. ORTIZ SANZ would, therefore, go to the area at the "beginning of July.
Mr. LOTS explained that the Indonesian Foreign Minister informed him that regional tribal councils were to be formed this year which would attempt to assess the wishes of the tribes. He understood, however, that in many cases they had not yet "been formed and that in many others the army was seeking participation.
Some discussion took place on the Development Fund to which 3;he Dutch Government had now contributed $30 million, and it was pointed out that the Indonesian Government had now agreed to supply counterpart funds.
The Dutch Government was anxious that Article 16 of the Plebiscite Agreement - the article concerning the provision of UN experts to participate, at the appropriate time, in advising on and assisting in the preparations for self-determination prior to the arrival of the Representative - should be observed to the letter. 5.
UNITED NATIONS NATIONS UNIES
The SECRETARY-GENERAL replied that Indonesian experts would he attending the resumed session of the General Assembly and discussions on this point could take place at that time.
IV - RELATIONS WITH TEE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE
It had been agreed in previous private conversations between Mr. LOTS and the SECRETARY-GENERAL that with regard to the ques- tion of the precedence of the judges of the World Court, the Netherlands-Government would suggest the placing of such an item on the agenda of the General Assembly — preferably presented by both the Government of the Netherlands and the International Court of Justice. The FOREIGN MINISTER pointed out that the Netherlands Government found it difficult to decide to make any change unilaterally. It was for the General Assembly to decide.
Discussions took place on the question of the new building for the World Court. It appeared that in the Court's view, there were several possible sites. Mr. LUNS said, however, that only one had, in fact, been offered by the Netherlands Government.
Mr. Narasimhan had visited The Hague and had approved the site. Now, apparently, the Court did not agree. The Netherlands Government had not been officially informed of this and it would greatly appreciate the Secretary-General's investigating the position.
The FOREIGN MINISTER hoped that the SECRETARY-GENERAL would, at the next General Assembly, ask approval for the Netherlands Government's offer.
V - UNCTAD AND DEVELOPMENT AID
The Minister for Development Aid, Mr. B.J. UDINK, who had just returned from the New Delhi Conference, gave a resume of the Dutch views on the results achieved. He spoke of the "negative" publicity which the Conference had received whether in the West or in Asia. In his view, if one took a realistic outlook, the results were, in fact, not all negative.
On the question of the 1$ of Gross National Product to be accorded to development aid, the Dutch regretted that the target date for this had not been tied to that of the second Development Decade. UNITED NATIONS NATIONS UNIES
On the question of commodities, the Dutch view was that the Conference had achieved the maximum possible in the circumstances "by fixing the dates of the commodity conferences.
The least spectacular work, in the Dutch view, was carried out on the question of preferences. This would now have to "be negotiated through the machinery of the UNCTAD councils.
The MINISTER stressed again that he thought the information policy was erroneous. This was not and could never have been a "negotiating" conference. He felt, however, in conclusion that the decisions taken would certainly have some effect in promoting a "global development strategy".
The SECRETARY-GENERAL explained some of Dr. PreMsch's views on. the results of the Conference. He said he was waiting to study Dr. Prebisch's final report but even now he wished to pay tribute to the contribution of the Netherlands both at the Conference and in the general field of economic development.
VI - NON-POLIFEHATION TREATY
A very brief discussion on the chances of the sucessful passage of the Non-Proliferation Treaty then ensued but time did not permit its continuation and the meeting broke up after two and a half hours. MBBSHIG OB 9$H AHIL H OTVBSSAAL, SIS HAGUE,
WISH 1BMBMS OF DUTCH
fhose presents
Mr. Joseph X/UJ3S9 Minister of For©l.,ga Affairs Hr. B^Je Udinks Minister of Ssx^elopmeat Aid Mr« de HanitSj Bireotoff-Generals Political Putoh Forei^i Office Mr. de Kost@r9 State Seereta,ry? Minister of Foreiga Affairs Eire Jan Meyer9 Birector-Gsneralj International
- Mr, S. Faoks Foreign Office
The POHS1CEJ MIKISTES, after repeating the welcome of the Dutch {bwrnment to the SECEETMI-^frSALj outlined the r proposed agendas*" Yie-fr-Hasaj Middle Eastff ^ est Irian; the He?; Building for the Intei-natioaal Court 9 BevTelopraent Aid9 the Second UECTAD Conference., and lastly the Boja-Prolif©ration Treaty. He asked if the SBGEBTAHY-OSIHIAL would Toe kisifi to comment on Point I.
The SBGaSTARY-GEtJliRAL gave a detailed expose of his on the 1f;Le1}~$Fa33 situation •* the historical facts9 the present position and future Mr, LUIJS thanked the SBORETMI^GEIERAL for his detailed summary. The Ef<&ther lands9 he saids felt that American in Asia Eight have unfortunate repercussions in Kiere wero? in facts those who also opposed the 2,
American presence is Europe. Beoentiyfl oa a visit to Holland,, the Israeli Foreign Minister had expressed fears for the very existence of Ms country if the Americans withdrew from Asia. IlTc LUIS went on to point out that conventional military forces in Western Europe •were far inferior to those of Soviet Union « The Government of the Netherlands feared that if ITorth fiot-Isrn should triumph*, then, similar events could take place elsewhere in Asia. *$he Government was in favour of an honorable peace and supported the recent American moves» The Netherlands GovernsBsa'fep in principle, disagreed witfe tie porraaaeai. division of countries although it saw ao possibility of i'-siediate usilfi— ii of Tiet-jffsm « 5h© letherlands CJoveriisien'l envisaged BOB® along the lines of th® Cten0va Ag£>easeBt and ^ould have liked the United Mations to play a part* ^h© fact that neither Pelting nor Hanoi t7ished to soe the United lations iOTol-sred was 5 in the view of th© Butch Oo^er^ffient s regrettable* Mr. LUNS spoke of the motion in the seoond Hows© of the Butsb. Parliament asking the Government to approach other European ooua tries to soe what possible action ootild T^e taken to ln?ing about praaee in fiet-Nasj. He then described the varying opinions of the luropoan Governments « "both Eastern and Western « v/ith which he had been in contact. He read the content of a proposed saessag© from the Netherlands Government to Hanoi *.c;hich had been envisaged.,, As he said,, however 9 many of these r.:oves were perhaps no?J academic ? considering the turn events had taken ° He wan ted t however, to acquaint the SECRETARY- GBKMlAL with these facts. If tho SlCRSTASY-CM-JTilEAL wished any help from the Netherlands Govern- •mentj at any time, he had only to ask for it= The Netherlands Government 9 for its parts would inforra the SECRETARI-GMxTSRAl of any further initiative it proposed to tales. The SSGRSTASY-a@N13JAL spoke of the impossibility of military victory or defeat. The defeat of the United States was not contemplated. The Soviet Union would not permit Hanoi to b© defeatsds Many Asians wanted the United States to bo otherwise imrolwel in the area •* SECREMHY-GSffEEAL then osplained the difficulties of United lations involvement*
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The larasli Foreign Minister ABM EBA1?9 had been on Qf£4©tsl visit to the Ifetherlaads some days "before the arrivalo Mr* LIBS esplaiaed that had given the Sat oh Govermaent a detailed •vie®? of how ho saw the Middle Bast situation to-day. Mr. LWS wished to |p?iag the details of this contrersatioa to the attention*
M£? BBM bad stated that, the feveraiaent of Itarael was willing to cariry out the terns of the Security Council resolution, fhejr ssw it9 however9 as a two-sided affair. They did not feel that they could implement it unilaterally. In faeij, they wanted to negotiate0 Shey looked favourably upon Ambassador Barring's efforts* stated that hs had informed Mr. IBM of Holland's yoaetioa to tb© last Isz-aeli. military reprisal Ms?., IBM had stated that he felt thes-e would Tbe ao of such ""bad public relations8. Israel is of the faot that its position is not well Imotrei abs-oad «• the position is thought to "be more rigid thaaB in fact9 it is* Mz'e BBM stated that he was contemplating a statement of espla^ation isi On fe© question of the ©vaeuation of teoops, Israel's position i-v'ass that this should take pla.es after the fixing of the
Os the question of relations vjith the U0AeH«9 Israel oould not acoopt a return to the preudous position, ia th© Gasa s-lffi?ip. Sara©! "ffoald want a ;]oint garrison in Shasas-el- Sheik, The Golan Range could sot resaia in the possession of With regard to JESUSMiiEtds, Israel would be prepared, to a diplomatic status for the Holy Places and that should rettaaea to
regard to the west bank of the Jordan? as?. EBA1 mad© oertain suggestions. He said tihat once negotiations had begans Israel was thinking of a United Nations "presence"s sot deeigaed to s^aratQ, the parties "out designed to iate^at®. th©35» One might thiSc"' of a regims similar to the Beaelus^ i.e» different states Mt f3?e© niov^asnli of people and ooaanon saonomic aiid social o"bj©©tivesB She actual free movement of Arabs as?,d Is^aolis should "be institutionalised in some way such as this* She SSCRETABY-CSDHERA!. explained the present position of the Jarring mission arid the attitude taken to it "by the two aides. Foreign. Minister LWS repeated Mr. 3BA!*s statement that "Israel could not tolerate a force at Shaa?E$»el~Sh0ik of which they did. not form a part** ** thus evolved the idea of a ".joint force**. On the question of a United Nations *'pr©sencef% Mr. LUIS said that Israel wanted assurances that no on a country could decide on. the withdrawal of such a force. Israel would welcome Batch participation in a force and the Dutch Government was willing to offer such participation*.
Ill TOV GUIMSA . The Butch POB.B16K MUIIS^IR expressed the vicre? that the present Indonesian Government was prepared to carry out In good faith the agreement of 19 62. The 19&9 consultation was approaching. The SEORF^AEY-GSfn^AI had appointed his P.Qpresent- ativ© usdtrr Ari/iol© l'f» Mr» LUHS asked how the Indonesian Government viewed the work of the Representative. The EKGRETAET- GElIMAIj replied that he hoped the mission wo-ald function smoothly* The 'beginning of the work had "been advanced to the middle of July 196B. Mr. ORTXS SAI2 would, therefore9 go to the area at the beginning of July* Mr. LUHS explained that the Indonesian Foreign 'l informed him that regional trifoal councils v/ere to "be formed this 3~ear which would attempt to assess the wishes of the tribe se He tjnderetood, however,, that in many oases the;"- had not yat "been formed and that in snany ethers the arzay was seeking participation:, discussion took place on the Development Fond to the Butch Government had now contributed $30 million $ and it was pointed out that the Indonesian Oover-raaent had now agreed to supply counterpart funds. She Uutofe Government was anslous that Article 16 of the Plebiscite Agreement •* the article concerning the proTlsioa of '01" exports to participate s at the appropriate time, in advising on and assisting in the preparations for solf-deterndjaatioa prio to the arrival of the Representative - should be observed to the letter* 'She SEeRETASY«OB!'HR£L replied that Indonesian experts would "be attending the resumed session of the General Assembly and. 'discussions on this point could take plao© at- that time.
IT - REAOHS TOE HB CUBT OF JUSTICE It had 'beea agreed in previous private conversations "between Fir,, LUIS aad the SECHB'MSY^SSIEBAL that with regard to the ques- tion of the precedence of the judges of the World Gourt5 the Beth©rlands Ooverraaent "Would suggest the placing of such an item OR tlie agenda of the Senegal Assembly » preferably presented "by "both the Governse-nt of the Motherlands and the International Court of 3u0t!o©« fhe FGaEIGSJ B&MISSES pointed out that the Netherlands GovQraBient fouad it difficult to decide to sake aiijr oliaage uailaterally* It ^ae for the General AseeiaTsly to decide, Bissassions took plaoe on the question of the new building fere the V?o3?ld Oou5?t0 2t appeared that in the Cbus-t's -vlsw9 there? were se-roral possible sites,, M?« LISTS saieL9 ho?/evor9 that only on© feads is fact,, 'been offered by the Netherlands Cbverasient » Mr, Harasimhaa had -si si ted The Hague and had ap preyed the sitg» low 5 apparsntly9 the Court did not agreoa The 3'etherlandn QoTea?Kaien1; had not IIQQ®. officially isifossaed. of this and it would greatly appreciate the Secretary-General *s investigating the position* The POHS1S2I MIHISfPSS hoped that the SEOREfMT-GlHMAL would, at the nest General Assembly ask approval f'or tho Ietliej?lands
f *
Minister for Dovelopisent Aid, &* B.J. T73UIL; who had just returned fs*oa the Be® Delhi Conference 5 gave a resume of the Batah iriews on the results achieved., He spoke of the "negative** publicity which the Conference had received whether ±n the West 02? in Asia. In his view, if one took a realietia outlookg the results wex-es in facts not all negative. Oa the question of the IgS of National PgpduQt to "be accorded to development aid9 the Dutoh regretted that the target date for this had not been tied to that of the second 3eTelopaent On the question of oonjagditios.B the Dut&h view was tlxat the Conference had achieved the maximura possible in the circumstances "by fixing the dates of the oosunodity confer ©noes »
The least spectacular workj, in the Dutch view9 was carried out on the Question of grefereace^s. 3?his would now have to "be negotiated through the machine:?;"- of the UliCIAS ootuacils, The MBI1STSE stressed again that ho thought the informatics;: policy Has erroneous* This was .not and could never have "been 5 a ^negotiating * conference « Ee felts however,, in conclusion that the decisions taken would certainly havo some effect in promoting a "global development The SEOEETASY-GES'IlSAl explained some of Dr. Prebisch's on the results of the Conference,, He said he was i?ai ting- to sta&y Dro PreMech's final report "but even now lie wished to pay tribute to the contribution of the Netherlands both at the Conference and in the general field of economic development*
If! - A very teief discussion on the chances of the suosssful pas sags of *&© If o;n^Pro lif egat ion Tr Qat^ then ensued, 'but tine did not permit its continuation and the saGetin^ broke up after two and a half hours » aM o
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