Wednesday Volume 529 15 June 2011 No. 170

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 15 June 2011

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frustration for people who are trying to volunteer. I House of Commons agree with the reforms that will make that process simpler, more effective and more portable. Wednesday 15 June 2011 Industrial Action (Public Sector) The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock 2. Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con): What steps he is taking to prepare for potential industrial action in the PRAYERS public sector. [59569]

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair] The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Mr Francis Maude): We are committed to maximum engagement with the public sector unions to seek agreement on essential reforms, and especially Oral Answers to Questions to make public sector pensions sustainable and among the very best available, as Lord Hutton, Labour’s Work and Pensions Secretary has recommended. I am sorry CABINET OFFICE that a handful of unions are hellbent on pursuing disruptive industrial action while discussions are continuing. However, we have rigorous contingency plans in place The Minister for the Cabinet Office was asked— to minimise disruption in the event of industrial action.

Volunteering Karl McCartney: I thank my right hon. Friend. Does he have a message for public sector workers who are 1. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): What plans contemplating strike action on 30 June? his Department has to help match young people with volunteering opportunities. [59568] Mr Maude: Yes, I do. I strongly recommend that they should not go in for industrial action. If schools close The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick as a result of teachers going on strike, there will be Hurd): We are investing in the national citizen service, considerable disruption not only to children’s education which will be very powerful in connecting young people but to the lives of parents whose livelihoods depend with their own power to make a contribution to the on schools being open. While discussions are still going community. In addition, we will invest £40 million over on about how to keep public sector pensions among the the next two years to support volunteering infrastructure very best that there are, and at a time when taxpayers in and social action. the private sector have seen hits to their own pension schemes, I think people will be really fed up if industrial Duncan Hames: I thank the Minister. Grow, the action goes ahead. organisation behind Wiltshire’s volunteer centre in Chippenham, is keen to extend the range of support it Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Why should provides in matching young people with volunteering the Government be surprised that public sector workers, opportunities as part of Wiltshire council’s volunteer many of whom are pretty poorly paid, faced with an strategy and action plan. Will the new local infrastructure onslaught on their pensions and frozen pay have decided fund be able to support such initiatives, be they in to fight back? It would be surprising if they had not. Wiltshire or elsewhere?

Mr Hurd: I was in Devizes constituency in Wiltshire Mr Maude: If the coalition Government had not on Friday, and I recognise that Wiltshire council represents inherited the biggest budget deficit in the developed best practice in many ways in supporting local voluntary world, we might not have to be taking these steps. I organisations and local infrastructure. I am delighted remind the hon. Gentleman that a civil servant on about the local infrastructure fund, because it will help median pay—about £23,000—who retires after a 40-year existing infrastructure assets become even more efficient career, which is not untypical, will have a pension that and effective in supporting front-line voluntary organisations would cost £500,000 to buy in the private sector. No one and encouraging local people to get involved. in the private sector now has access to such pensions.

Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): We all support Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): efforts to encourage volunteering, but does the Minister May I commend my right hon. Friend for his determination share our concern that under proposals in the Protection to engage to the maximum with the public sector unions of Freedoms Bill on the vetting and barring scheme to try to avoid industrial action? He has made it clear, individuals who are barred from working with children however, that he does not rule out legislative changes. will be able to volunteer in schools, and without the May I plead with him, on behalf of the Public school’s knowledge? Administration Committee, that we make changes in an orderly fashion, and that perhaps he should publish a Mr Hurd: The Bill contains very important reforms Green Paper to consult on what changes should be to vetting and barring, and critically to the Criminal made, so that we can have a proper debate about them Records Bureau process, which many Members will rather than find ourselves propelled into legislative changes know from their constituencies is a source of considerable in an emergency? 761 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 762

Mr Maude: I do not have responsibility for industrial Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): I spent 16 years in the relations law; that rests with my right hon. Friend the fundraising sector. Does the Minister agree that one Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. giving barrier for many people is the abolition of cheques? We have made it clear that we do not rule out changes, and a number of proposals have been made from Mr Hurd: I know that causes a lot of debate and outside. We think that industrial relations law works anxiety in the sector. As my hon. Friend well knows, the reasonably well at the moment, but we keep it under matter is under review by the Government. It has been review. stated that cheques need to be replaced by some form of paper-based system. Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): Does the Minister agree that pensions should be regarded as deferred Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): wages, and that therefore, as my hon. Friend the Member The House will note that the giving White Paper states for Walsall North (Mr Winnick) said, it should come as that the Government aim to support and manage no surprise that pension scheme members are seeking to opportunities for giving, but what will the Minister do protect their future income? to monitor what sums are given and to which organisations? Mr Maude: That is why we are engaging in discussions Does he intend to plug funding gaps, should they arise, with the TUC at its behest. The discussions continue, so that poor areas of the country are not disadvantaged? and there is much still to be sorted out. I remind the Indeed, if donations continue to fall, is it a sensible hon. Gentleman that Lord Hutton, Labour’s Work and strategy to rely on philanthropy to fill gaps in public Pensions Secretary, recommended the reforms to make funding? public sector pension schemes sustainable and affordable for the future. That is what we are determined to achieve. Mr Hurd: The Government see a substantial opportunity Any union or public servant contemplating strike action to encourage more giving, bearing in mind that 8% of is jumping the gun. There is a long way to go yet. the country do 47% of the giving. The hon. Lady asks about money for more deprived areas. Our “community Giving first and community organiser” programme, which is worth about £80 million, is exclusively targeted on the 3. Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): most deprived communities. The programme incentivises What steps he is taking to encourage increased levels of the local giving of time and money to support social giving. [59570] action projects led by those communities. The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick National Citizen Service Hurd): The Government are anxious to encourage more giving. On 23 May, we published a White Paper that set out a range of ways in which we can help to make giving 4. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): What steps easier and more compelling, and offered better support he is taking to enable young people in (a) England and for charities, community groups and social enterprises. (b) Northamptonshire to participate in the national citizen service in the summer of 2011. [59572] Andrew Bridgen: Although people in the UK are very generous compared with Europeans, the rate of UK 6. James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): charitable giving remains only half that of the rate in What steps he is taking to enable young people to America. What further steps will the Minister take to participate in the national citizen service in the summer encourage us to give up to the level of our of 2011. [59574] American cousins? The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Mr Hurd: My hon. Friend is right—we are a generous Hurd): As my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering country—but giving has flatlined, despite substantial (Mr Hollobone) knows, we are offering more than interventions from previous Governments. We do not 10,000 places to 16-year-olds this summer, including accept that as being inevitable, and we want to help 135 in Northamptonshire. Our 12 providers are working people to give more. He will know that the Chancellor hard to ensure full participation. I hope that he will lend announced generous incentives in the last Budget. The his personal support to Catch22 and the Prince’s Trust White Paper contains many ideas, including a social in his area. action fund to support creative, new models that incentivise people to give. Mr Hollobone: What steps are being taken to encourage Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): More people full participation in the scheme, and how can parents would be encouraged to give, especially to health care get involved to encourage youngsters to take up this charities, if the issue of irrecoverable VAT on all non- challenge? business supplies was sorted out. Discussions are being held with the Treasury, but will the Minister ensure that Mr Hurd: Our providers are working very hard to they are expedited so that a mutually acceptable solution ensure full participation in the pilots by engaging schools, is reached as quickly as possible? working with local media, and using social networking sites, including a dedicated Facebook page. The Minister Mr Hurd: The issue of irrecoverable VAT continues for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General and I will to rumble on. It is a Treasury matter, but I assure the write to every colleague in the House with details of right hon. Gentleman that as Minister with responsibility how they can engage with their local provider, because for civil society I continue to have regular discussions we would like them fully to support this exciting and with the relevant Treasury Minister. positive opportunity for young people in their constituencies. 763 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 764

James Morris: There are a number of national citizens Mr Maude: It is one thing to have a target but service pilots in and around my constituency. Does the another to reach it. The £21 billion of public sector Minister agree that we need to find ways of increasing fraud that the National Fraud Authority identified and deepening access to this scheme in the most deprived arose after his party’s Government had set their ambitious areas by using innovative ways of communicating with targets. We are getting on and doing things—identifying youth clubs and other local institutions? fraud and error and stopping hard-earned taxpayers’ money going out of the door, to ensure that instead it Mr Hurd: My hon. Friend raises an important point. goes to the vulnerable people and important public One of the key benchmarks for success of the scheme is services where it is needed. creating the right social mix on residential courses. The Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): One and a aim is to create opportunities for young people to meet half billion pounds sounds not like a modest saving, in people they would never otherwise expect to meet. That the words of the hon. Member for Barnsley Central is very much part of the obligation on our providers (Dan Jarvis), but like a worthwhile saving, given that and we are monitoring it very closely. every penny comes out of people’s pockets. How soon will the Minister be able to take forward savings towards Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I achieving the £21 billion total? We need to stamp this welcome this initiative, but does the Minister agree that out of the public sector: what can we do about it? the Government need to do much more to prevent a repeat of the ‘80s, when so many young people ended Mr Maude: I should make it clear that this is only the up on the scrapheap? beginning. The issue is not only benefit or tax fraud but procurement fraud. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport is undertaking a pilot on supplier Mr Hurd: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his constructive fraud in his Department, and it is already yielding engagement with the national citizen service concept. I significant returns. If the previous Government had obviously reject his thesis and would point him to the been as concerned with eradicating fraud as we are, the investment in apprenticeships and everything else that public finances would not perhaps be in the mess they we are doing. I urge him not to underestimate the are in. potential of this programme to transform young people’s sense of what they can achieve. Big Society Bank 7. John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): What progress he has Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): May I ask the made on establishing a big society bank. [59576] Minister again about the barriers to young people from deprived areas getting involved in this scheme, especially 11. Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con): What in the pilot projects, for which, in half of the cases, progress he has made on establishing a big society young people are being charged up to £99? Does he bank. [59581] agree that such charges will be a severe disincentive to young people from those areas, and will he take action? The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Oliver Letwin): I am delighted to say that we are making extremely good progress in establishing the big society Mr Hurd: We have made it clear—I have done so bank. Sir Ronald Cohen and Nick O’Donohoe, with personally—to every provider that money should not whom I met recently, have put an outline of the proposals be a barrier to participation in the pilots. We are on the website. They are now working with the actuary experimenting with a range of models to gauge people’s and the administrators of the dormant accounts. So as willingness to pay for the value that the models add, but not to waste time while we wait for state aid clearance, we have made it very clear to providers that money we have also established a high calibre interim investment should not be a barrier to participation. committee in the Big Lottery Fund to begin work immediately. Benefit Fraud John Glen: I thank the Minister for that response. What safeguards will be in place so that when small 5. Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): What charities seek to access funds from intermediaries they progress his Department’s counter fraud taskforce has will be making worthwhile investments and not causing made in tackling benefit fraud. [59573] themselves to fall into significant debt?

The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster Mr Letwin: My hon. Friend makes an extremely General (Mr Francis Maude): The National Fraud Authority good point. It is tremendously important that the voluntary estimates that £21 billion is lost to fraud in the public and charitable sector does not get into a debt spiral, and sector each year. In recent months, the counter fraud for that reason the big society bank’s plans involve taskforce, which I chair, has overseen a series of small-scale trying to promote patient capital and risk capital that pilots that have made immediate savings of £12 million will allow the voluntary and community sector to expand in benefit and tax credit fraud, and which—when rolled without becoming over-geared and being put in financial out—will save £1.5 billion a year. peril. Anne Marie Morris: Does the Minister agree that the Dan Jarvis: I thank the Minister for his response, big society bank will provide the vital backing required which, when compared with the Labour Government’s by investors in our social sector organisations, so that targets for benefit fraud reduction, signals an unambitious they can continue to support local groups dedicated to approach to tackling this serious problem. Why is that? making communities better places to work and live? 765 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 766

Mr Letwin: Yes, I absolutely agree with my hon. localism and big society agendas. It is right for that Friend. It is extremely important to point out that the consultation to conclude before further decisions are purpose of the big society bank, under Sir Ronald taken. Cohen’s direction, is to go beyond the traditional sources of finance and persuade, for example, large charities Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab): In that have considerable investments to start to reinvest in March, the Minister for the Cabinet Office claimed that the voluntary and community sector so that they can he would make £30 billion of savings from his quango get good returns on, for example, social impact bonds. reform programme embodied in the Public Bodies Bill, so that he could Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): How long will it “protect jobs and front-line services.” take for funds from the big society bank to reach the My freedom of information requests show, however, front line? that nearly £25 billion of this £30 billion comes from front-line cuts to housing and our universities, including Mr Letwin: That very much depends, of course, on teaching and research. Will he apologise for these misleading the state aid process, which, as the hon. Gentleman will statements about protecting front-line services? know from his own experience, we cannot totally determine. In order not to waste time, however, the investment Mr Hurd: No—and I am surprised by the line of committee that has been set up within the Big Lottery questioning, because this programme of very overdue Fund will begin to disburse funds from dormant accounts reform to the complex landscape of quangos and non- as soon as they are made available and released. I hope departmental public bodies goes exactly with the grain that that will happen within a few months. of the reforms proposed by the previous Government. We are going further in trying to deliver much greater Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): At a recent meeting accountability in government, and, on the way, delivering of the Public Administration Committee, Sir Ronald what we believe will be about £2.6 billion in communicative Cohen said that the big society bank might have to and administrative savings over the spending review change its name because it is not a bank. Will the period. Minister enlighten us? If it is not a bank, what is it? Topical Questions Mr Letwin: The hon. Gentleman’s question reminds me of Maynard Keynes’s dictum when asked about the IMF and the World Bank. I think he said that the T1. [59584] Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) World Bank was a kind of fund, and the IMF was a (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental kind of bank. There are often these oddities in the responsibilities. naming of things. Shall we just call it the BSB and know what it does, rather than worry about the name? The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Mr Francis Maude): As the Minister for the Mr Speaker: We are now better informed. Cabinet Office, I am responsible for the public sector efficiency and reform group, civil service issues, industrial relations, strategy in the public sector, Government Public Bodies Bill transparency, civil contingencies, civil society and cyber- security. 8. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): What recent representations he has received on the provisions of the Mr Evennett: I welcome my right hon. Friend’s progress Public Bodies Bill. [59577] on public sector reform. Does he know why public sector unions have decided to ballot their members on The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick strike action now, when talks on pension reform are still Hurd): As my hon. Friend knows, the Bill has completed ongoing? a tortuous but constructive passage through the other place, and we hope for a Second Reading in this place Mr Maude: Only three of the unions have done that. soon. In the meantime, the Cabinet Office and other The majority of unions are continuing to engage in relevant Departments are holding information sessions good faith with the discussions that are still taking for colleagues who want to discuss this important Bill. place. It is our determination that at the end of the reforms proposed by Lord Hutton, Labour’s Work and Charlie Elphicke: I thank the Minister for his reply, Pensions Secretary, public sector pensions will continue his hard work and the excellent job he is doing on the to be among the best available, but we will ask people to Bill. Under the Bill, public statutory corporations such work longer because they are living longer and to pay a as British Waterways will be reformed and become bit more, to achieve a better balance between what they mutuals. Have Ministers considered other similar public pay and what other taxpayers pay. bodies, such as trust ports, for inclusion in the Bill? Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab): How can the Minister Mr Hurd: I understand that my hon. Friend is frustrated possibly justify the announcement on the No. 10 by the pace of progress in his committed and spirited transparency website that since November the Government attempt to allow the people of Dover to take over the have spent more than £5 million on tarting up offices in port. He will know that the Transport Secretary, who is Whitehall, including £680,000 on No. 10 Downing street? sitting alongside me, has announced a consultation on How can he justify that when he is laying off nurses, the criteria for assessing the sale of trust ports in policemen, servicemen and so on? Will he now publish a England and Wales, largely to reflect the Government’s line-by-line account of how the money was spent? 767 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 768

Mr Maude: Point one: if we had not gone in for full the changes, and in order to make public sector pensions transparency in what the Government are spending, the sustainable for the future, we need to drive these reforms hon. Gentleman would not know anything about this. through. Point two: we inherited a massive programme of wasteful refurbishment of Government offices from the previous T6. [59589] Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): On what date Government, including some unbelievably badly negotiated did the Government instruct parliamentary counsel to PFI contracts. If they had taken the same care as we are draft amendments to the Health and Social Care Bill, taking with taxpayers’ money, we would not have the following the consequences of the NHS Future Forum? biggest budget deficit in the developed world, which we Mr Maude: I would recommend that the hon. Gentleman inherited from his Government. ask that question of the Secretary of State for Health.

T2. [59585] Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend think that responsible Members During 2011, I will be launching a new social enterprise, of this House, in all parts of the Chamber, should the Northamptonshire parent infant project. What condemn irresponsible strike action that puts children’s assurance can my right hon. Friend give me that education at risk and diminishes public services? Does commissioners will be encouraged to provide medium-term the silence— contracts to charities that provide essential support services? Mr Speaker: Order. We are grateful. The hon. Gentleman has finished. The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Oliver Letwin): I congratulate my hon. Friend on the fantastic Mr Maude: It would be good to hear Opposition work she is doing with that organisation, which is Front Benchers joining us in urging the trade unions to tackling natal depression and perinatal problems. The stay with the discussions, which still have a great distance central Government compact already provides for multi- to go, to secure what will still be among the very best year funding whenever that is appropriate. Local compacts pension schemes available. If schools close down, it is are a matter for local decision, but I strongly encourage not just children’s education that will be disrupted, but her county council to offer a multi-year contract, if that the livelihoods of millions of parents who depend on is at all possible. schools being open so that they can go to work to earn T7. [59590] Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) the money to pay the taxes to support public sector (Lab): How many mutuals does the Minister expect to pensions. [Interruption.] support through his Department next year, and will he be making a further statement on the mutual pathfinder? Mr Speaker: Order. There is far too much noise in the Chamber and too many private conversations taking Mr Maude: We know that there is growing enthusiasm place. I want to hear the questions and the Minister’s for public sector workers to come together to form answers. employee-led co-operatives or mutuals to carry out and deliver public services. All the evidence shows that they T5. [59588] Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) deliver huge increases in productivity and better public (Lab): By 2014, civil society will be losing £2.9 billion a services at lower cost, and I hope that the hon. Lady will year in revenue—the same as the amount forgone in give her full support— corporation tax by big companies in the United Kingdom. Why are the Government being so soft on big business Mr Speaker: I am extremely obliged to the Minister, and so tough on charities and the voluntary sector? but the House must now hear Mr Greg Hands. [59592] Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con): The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick T9. To what extent does the Minister expect any PCS strike Hurd): I reject that statement absolutely. The hon. action to have an impact on our vital public services? Gentleman is pulling numbers for lost income to the charity sector out of the air and completely ignoring Mr Maude: We are waiting to see the result of the the volume of public sector contracts going in, not least ballot this afternoon, but I hope that civil servants, who through the recent Work programme, which is worth at are imbued with a strong public service ethos, will least £100 million a year. As for big business, I would recognise that we are seeking to achieve public sector simply refer him to a speech made by the Prime Minister pensions that continue to be among the very best available. last year called “Every Business Commits”. However, because people are living longer, they will be asked to work for longer. Furthermore, because there is T4. [59587] Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): not a fair balance between what they pay and what You will be aware, Mr Speaker, that my constituency other taxpayers—who have seen their own pensions will hold a national sporting event in the next fortnight, take a hit—pay, we are expecting them to pay a bit more the enjoyment of which could be undermined by strikes towards them. proposed by the unions. Does my right hon. Friend agree that these strikes are unnecessary, and will he confirm the Government’s commitment to talks to PRIME MINISTER ensure that they do not have to happen? The Prime Minister was asked— Mr Maude: As I say, we are committed to continuing those discussions. We had further discussions yesterday, Engagements and there will be more next week and the week after. There is much still to be resolved. It was Lord Hutton, Q1. [59594] Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): If he Labour’s Work and Pensions Secretary, who recommended will list his official engagements for Wednesday 15 June. 769 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 770

The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): This morning The Prime Minister: I have to tell the right hon. I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, Gentleman—[Interruption.] and in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today. Mr Speaker: Order. The question has been asked; the answer will be heard. Margot James: Thousands of people in my constituency work hard for less than £26,000 a year. Does my right The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman is hon. Friend agree that everyone who believes in the wrong on the specific point. First of all, as I have said, necessity of capping benefits must vote for the Welfare our definition of “terminally ill” is exactly the same as Reform Bill tonight? the one used by the last Government. Crucially, anyone out of work who has longer to live will be given the The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right. extra support that comes from employment and support We are right to reform welfare. Welfare costs have got allowance. Irrespective of a person’s income or assets, out of control in our country. We want to ensure that that will last for 12 months. The right hon. Gentleman work always pays, and that if people do the right thing is wrong, and he should admit that he is wrong. On a we will be on their side. It cannot be right for some means-tested basis, this additional support can last families to get more than £26,000 a year in benefits that indefinitely. That is the truth; he should check his facts are paid for by people who are working hard and paying before he comes to the House and chickens out of their taxes. I would say that everyone in the House welfare reform. should support the Welfare Reform Bill tonight, and it is a disappointment that Labour talks about welfare Edward Miliband: So let us be clear about this: in his reform but will not vote for it. first answer the Prime Minister said that his policy was the same as the last Government’s; now he has admitted that the Government are ending contributory-based Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): When employment and support allowance after one year. Let the Prime Minister signed off his welfare Bill, did he me tell him what Macmillan Cancer Support says— know that it would make 7,000 cancer patients worse [Interruption.] I think that Conservative Members should off by as much as £94 a week? listen to what Macmillan Cancer Support has to say. Let me tell them; this is what it says—[Interruption.] I The Prime Minister: That is simply not the case. We think it is a disgrace that Conservative Members are are using exactly the same definition of people who are shouting when we are talking about issues affecting suffering and who are terminally ill as the last Government. people with cancer. This is what Macmillan Cancer We want to ensure that those people are helped and Support says—that many people protected. The point that I would make to the right “will lose this…benefit simply because they have not recovered hon. Gentleman is that if you are in favour of welfare quickly enough.” reform, and if you want to encourage people to do the I ask the Prime Minister the question again: will he now right thing, it is no good talking about it: you have got admit that 7,000 cancer patients are losing up to £94 a to vote for it. week?

Edward Miliband: As usual, the right hon. Gentleman The Prime Minister: Let me try to explain it to the does not know what is in his own Bill. Listen to Macmillan right hon. Gentleman again, as I do not think he has Cancer Support, which announced on 13 June: “Cancer got the point—[Interruption.] patients to lose up to £94 a week”. Those are people who have worked hard all their lives and who have done Mr Speaker: Order. I think it is a disgrace that the right thing and paid their taxes, yet when they are in Members on both sides of the House are shouting their need, the Prime Minister is taking money away from heads off when matters of the most serious concern are them. I ask him again: how can it be right that 7,000 being debated. I repeat what I have said before: the people with cancer are losing £94 a week? public despise this sort of behaviour. Let us have a bit of order. The Prime Minister: We are using precisely the same test as the last Government supported. All we see here is The Prime Minister: I am grateful for that, Mr Speaker. a Labour party desperate not to support welfare reform, This is important, and I want to try to explain to the and trying to find an excuse to get off supporting right hon. Gentleman why I think he has got it wrong, welfare reform. Anyone who is terminally ill gets immediate and why I think what we are proposing is right. Let me access to the higher level of support, and we will explain the definition of who is terminally ill; these are provide that to all people who are unable to work. That horrible things to have to discuss, but let me explain. It is the guarantee we make, but the right hon. Gentleman is—[Interruption.] Hold on a second. The definition is has to stop wriggling off his responsibilities and back the same one—as I say, it is six months. Anyone out of the welfare reform he talks about. work who lives longer than that will be given the extra support that comes from employment and support Edward Miliband: The Prime Minister does not know allowance. That is irrespective of a person’s income or the detail of his own Bill. Let me explain it to him. their assets and it will last for 12 months, not the six Because the Government are stopping contributory months that the Leader of the Opposition claimed. On employment and support allowance after one year for a means-tested basis, this additional support can last those in work-related activity, cancer patients—7,000 of indefinitely. So as I say, it is the same test as under the them—are losing £94 a week. I ask him again: how can last Government. It has been put in place fairly, we have that be right? listened very carefully to Macmillan Cancer Support, 771 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 772 and we have also made sure that someone is reviewing Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): all the medical tests that take place under this system. I On a recent visit to India, my constituent Baljinder know that the right hon. Gentleman wants to try to Singh’s mother, Surjit Kaur, a British national, was create a distraction from the fact that he will not support kidnapped and then beheaded in a horrendous murder. welfare reform, but I have answered his question, so he May I ask the British Government to urge the Indian should now answer mine: why won’t you back the Bill? authorities to carry out a full, transparent and thorough investigation and bring to account those responsible for Edward Miliband: In case the Prime Minister has that horrendous murder so that my constituent and his forgotten, I ask the questions and he fails to answer family can get some justice for their mother? them. Let me try to explain it to him. He should listen to The Prime Minister: I understand why my hon. Friend Professor Jane Maher, chief medical officer of Macmillan wants to raise this case, and on behalf of the whole Cancer Support, who said: House let me send our condolences to Mrs Kaur’s “In my experience one year is simply not long enough for many family. I fully understand and support their wish for people to recover from cancer. The serious physical and psychological side-effects can last for many months, even years, after treatment justice to be brought to bear on the perpetrators. The has finished. It is crucial that patients are not forced to return to Foreign Office has been providing the family with consular work before they are ready.” support, as my hon. Friend knows, and they will arrange Macmillan Cancer Support and Britain’s cancer charities to meet him and the family to see what further assistance have been making this argument for months. I am we can give. However, responsibility for investigating amazed that the Prime Minister does not know about crime committed overseas must rest with the police and these arguments. Why does he not know about them? judicial authorities in that country. We cannot interfere The House of Commons is voting on this Bill tonight. in the processes, but I take his point to heart. He should know about these arguments. I ask him again: will he now admit that 7,000 cancer patients are Q2. [59595] Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): losing up to £94 a week? We know that the deficit was the price paid to avoid a depression caused by the bankers, but in March the The Prime Minister: I have answered the question forecast for the budget deficit was increased by three times with a full explanation. The whole point of £46 billion—£1,000 per person. Will the Prime Minister our benefit reforms is that there are proper medical tests now at last accept that cuts are choking growth, that so that we support those who cannot work, as a generous, VAT is stoking inflation and that both are increasing tolerant and compassionate country should, but we will the deficit? He is going too far, too fast, and he is make sure that those who can work have to go out to hindering, not helping, the recovery. Yes or no? work, so that we do not reward bad behaviour. That is what the Bill is about. The Leader of the Opposition is attempting to put up a smokescreen because he has The Prime Minister: The deficit is the price paid for been found out. He made a speech this week about the Labour’s profligacy in office. In his memoirs, Tony Blair importance of welfare reform, but he cannot take his said—[Interruption.] I know that Labour Members do divided party with him. That is what this is about: weak not want to hear about Tony Blair any more, and that is leadership of a divided party. funny, really. He was a Labour leader who used to win elections, so they might want to listen to him. He said Edward Miliband: What an absolute disgrace, to describe that by 2007, spending was out of control. That is the talking about cancer patients in this country as a point. We need to get on top of spending, on top of smokescreen! This is about people out in the country debt and on top of the deficit. I understand that the and cancer charities that are concerned on their behalf—and Labour leader is trying to persuade the shadow Chancellor the Prime Minister does not know his own policy. It is of that—well, good luck to him! not about people who are terminally ill; it is about people recovering from cancer who are losing support Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): The Prime Minister as a result of this Government. We know he does not will be aware that yesterday was the anniversary of the think his policies through, but is this not one occasion liberation of the Falkland Islands by the forces of the on which we could say that if ever there was a case to Crown. Will he remind President Obama when he next “pause, listen and reflect”, this is it? Why does he not sees the United States President that negotiations over do so? the Falkland Islands with Argentina will never be acceptable to Her Majesty’s Government, and that if the special The Prime Minister: What we have seen this week is relationship means anything, it means that they defend the right hon. Gentleman getting on the wrong side of British sovereignty over our own territories? every issue. On cutting the deficit, we now have the CBI, the Institute of Directors, the International Monetary Fund, his brother, and Tony Blair, on our side, and he is The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an excellent on his own. On welfare reform, we have everyone point, and I am sure that everyone right across the House recognising that welfare needs to be reformed, apart will want to remember the anniversary of the successful from the right hon. Gentleman. On the health service— retaking of the Falkland Islands and the superb bravery, yes—we now have the Royal College of General skill and courage of all our armed forces who took part Practitioners, the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal in that action. We should also remember those who fell College of Physicians, the former Labour Health Minister in taking back the Falklands. I would say this: as long as and Tony Blair all on the side of reform and, on his the Falkland Islands want to be sovereign British territory, own, the right hon. Gentleman: a weak leader of a they should remain sovereign British territory—full divided party. That is what we have learned this week. stop, end of story. 773 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 774

Q3. [59596] Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): This week we agree that it is essential for a co-ordinated multi-agency have seen the Government change their mind on the approach right across the country—from borders to NHS, on sentencing, on student visas and on bin collection, local authorities and local police forces, and including so will the Prime Minister tell us now whether he will the excellent charitable organisations involved in this change his mind over Government plans to force more work—to be promoted urgently? than 300,000 women to wait up to two years longer before they qualify for their state pension? The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. I know how hard the all-party group works The Prime Minister: All parties supported the equalisation on this issue and I listen very carefully to what it has to of the pension age between men and women. That say. One thing that is changing, which I hope will make needed to happen. We also need to raise pension ages to a difference, is the formation of the National Crime make sure that our pension system is affordable. The Agency, which I think will bring greater co-ordination point I would make is that because we have done that, to such vital issues. we have been able to re-link the pension back to earnings, Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): The Scottish National and as a result pensioners are £15,000 better off in their party won a landslide in the recent elections and a retirement than they would have been under Labour. I mandate to improve the powers of the Scottish Parliament, think that is a good deal and the right thing to do. If so will the Prime Minister respect the Scottish electorate anyone in the Labour party wants to be serious about and accept the Scottish Government’s six proposals for pension reform and dealing with the deficit, they should improvement in the Scotland Bill? back these changes. The Prime Minister: We listen very carefully to what Q14. [59607] Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I people have to say, and of course we respect the fact agree with the Government’s timetable for increasing that the SNP won a mandate in Scotland; we are the men’s state pension age to 66, because it happens responding extremely positively. The first point I make gradually. However, I ask the Prime Minister to think to the hon. Gentleman is that the Scotland Bill, currently again about the women’s state pension age, because the before the House, is a massive extension of devolution. planned timetable has it going up far too quickly and He shakes his head, but it is an extra £12 billion of leaves women of my age—those born in 1954—without spending power. We will be going ahead with that and enough time to plan for what could be two years’ extra we will look at all the proposals that First Minister work. Will the Government please look at this again? Salmond has made. I take the Respect agenda very seriously, but it is a two-way street: I respect the views The Prime Minister: I understand the concern, but and wishes of the Scottish people, but they have to the point I would make is that, as I said in the House respect that we are still part, and I believe will always last week, more than 80% of those affected will see their remain part, of a United Kingdom. pension age come in only a year later, so a relatively small number are affected. The key thing is making sure Q6. [59599] Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): that our pension system is sustainable so that we can Last Friday was the 90th anniversary of the Royal pay out higher pensions. The House had a similar British Legion, next Monday is armed forces day, and argument in Cabinet Office questions, about the on Tuesday 120 soldiers from 16th Air Assault Brigade sustainability of public sector pensions. We have to take will march through the Carriage Gates into Parliament these difficult decisions; they are right for the long term to welcome them back from Afghanistan. Can we tell and they actually mean a better pension system for them, or will the Prime Minister repeat his assurance, those who are retiring. that the armed forces covenant will now be written into law, for the first time in history? Q4. [59597] Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): Does the Prime Minister agree with the Institute The Prime Minister: Yes, I can give that assurance, for Fiscal Studies that with inflation at 4.5%—more and I am delighted that the Government and the Royal than twice his Government’s target—it is hitting British Legion have agreed the approach we will take in pensioners and low-income families the hardest? the Armed Forces Bill, which is passing through the House. I am very glad that the House of Commons will be welcoming those soldiers from 16th Air Assault The Prime Minister: The point about pensions is that Brigade. Like the rest of our armed forces, they are the there is the triple guarantee that they will go up by bravest of the brave and the best of the best. We cannot earnings, prices or 2.5%, whichever is higher, so it is not do too much for those people; that is why the armed going to affect them in that way. Clearly, we want to see forces covenant matters, and that is also why we kept inflation come down. I think there is a shared agreement our promise to double the operational allowance to across the House, and it is right for the Bank of England soldiers serving in Afghanistan and other theatres. to have that responsibility.I notice that the hon. Gentleman does not raise today the very welcome news that we Q7. [59600] Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and have seen the biggest fall in unemployment in one Leith) (Lab/Co-op): Millions of our constituents are month’s figures than we have seen at any time in a once more facing big increases in their gas and decade. I think it is time the Labour party started electricity bills. Many will find it very difficult to make welcoming good news. ends meet. What action will the Government take to help them? Q5. [59598] Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): There is increasing concern within the House and across the The Prime Minister: We are taking a range of actions. country about the hidden suffering of trafficked children— Obviously, the fact that oil now costs $115 a barrel and and, indeed, retrafficked children. Does the Prime Minister gas prices have gone up by 50% over the last year has an 775 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 776 impact, but we are putting £250 million into the warm or worried about being discriminated against or joked home discount. We are funding a more targeted Warm about in school or in the workplace. Will the Prime Front scheme that will help 47,000 families this year. We Minister please support this campaign? are legislating so that social tariffs have to offer the best prices available. We are keeping a promise we made that The Prime Minister: I will certainly support the campaign. Post Office card account holders should get a discount. My hon. Friend makes the extremely good point that We are keeping the winter fuel payment, and of course many people with diabetes find the illness embarrassing we permanently increased the cold weather payments. and something that they do not want to talk about, yet We did not just allow them to be increased in an it affects more and more people. We have to find a way election year; we are keeping those higher payments, to encourage people to come forward and say that there which are very valuable to many of the hon. Gentleman’s is nothing abnormal or wrong about it. We need to help constituents. people to manage their diabetes, especially because we want them to have control over their health care and to Q8. [59601] Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): Last week spend less time in hospital, if at all possible. I fully my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash) and I support the campaign, and I think that we need to look visited Walton Hall special school near Stafford. In our at the long-term costs of people getting diabetes and meetings, parents expressed their gratitude for the recognise that there is a big public health agenda, excellent teaching, but also their anxiety over provision particularly around things such as exercise, that we need for their children after the age of 19. I know of my to get hold of. right hon. Friend’s deep concern about this subject, so what encouragement can he give them? Q10. [59603] Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): The Prime Minister will know that this is my first The Prime Minister: First of all, we must support opportunity to ask him a question. I stand here fresh special schools. The pendulum swung too far against and full of hope, so I shall give him one more chance to special education and in favour of inclusion. It is important answer this question. People in my constituency and that we give parents and carers proper choices between throughout the country face the enormous increases in mainstream and special education. My hon. Friend their energy bills announced by Scottish Power. They raises an important point, which is that when disabled need help now. When will the Prime Minister keep the children become young adults, many parents want them promise that he made in opposition to take tough to go on studying in further education colleges and action on excessive energy prices? elsewhere, yet currently the rules seem to suggest that once they have finished a course, that is it. Parents say to me, “What are we going to do now?” We have to find The Prime Minister: As I said some moments ago, we a better answer for parents whose much-loved children are taking action. There is only a certain amount that are living for much longer; they want them to have a can be done when fuel prices have gone up by as much purposeful and full life. as they have over the past year—a 50% increase in oil and gas. We do have the warm home discount and the Warm Front scheme. We are making sure that when Q9. [59602] Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): In the face of crippling energy price rises that are driving there are special tariffs, companies must offer them to pensioners and vulnerable families into fuel poverty by users; that makes a difference. There is also the point the thousand every day under this coalition, is the about Post Office card account holders. At present they Prime Minister struggling with his energy bill—or are do not get all the discounts available to people who pay any of the 21 other millionaires in his Cabinet struggling by direct debit, but we are ensuring that they will get with their energy bills? When will he personally take a those discounts. The hon. Lady shakes her head, but grip of the situation? that is a lot more done in one year than the previous Government did in 13. The Prime Minister: From reading the papers this week, the people who seem to be coining it are the ones Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): Will my right hon. who worked for the previous Government—but there Friend congratulate Cluny Lace in Ilkeston, which made we are. Clearly, fuel prices have gone up because of part of the lace on the Duchess of Cambridge’s wedding what has happened to world oil and gas prices, but this dress? It is the last traditional lace factory in Erewash, Government take seriously their responsibilities to try and our town centres have declined in recent years as a to help families. That is why we have frozen council tax, result of the loss of such factories. Does my right hon. that is why we are lifting 1 million people out of tax, Friend therefore agree that the review by Mary Portas and that is why we have introduced the set of measures aimed at revitalising our town centres has come at a that I have described to try to help with energy bills. We perfect time? May I invite the Prime Minister and have also managed to cut petrol tax this year, paid for Ms Portas to visit Erewash as part of the review? by the additional tax on the North sea oil industry. I notice that although the Opposition want to support The Prime Minister: I shall be delighted to come to the petrol price tax, they do not support the increase in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I did not know that her North sea oil tax. That is absolutely typical of a totally constituents were responsible for the lace on the Duchess’s opportunistic Opposition. incredible dress, so I shall leave today’s session enriched by that knowledge. We want a growth in manufacturing Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD): The Prime Minister and production in Britain. What we are seeing in our will be aware that this is national diabetes week. This economy—difficult as the months ahead inevitably will year’s theme is “Let’s talk diabetes”, to encourage people be—is a growth of things made in Britain, whether that with the condition to speak out and not to feel stigmatised means cars, vans, or indeed lace for people’s dresses. 777 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 778

Q11. [59604] Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): Mr Speaker: I am extremely grateful to the Prime The United States Secretary of Defence, Robert Gates, Minister. I call Jack Dromey. has said that the NATO operation in Libya has exposed serious capability gaps. The First Sea Lord, Q12. [59605] Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) Admiral—[Interruption.] The First Sea Lord, Admiral (Lab): In this carers week, when we celebrate the Mark Stanhope, has said that the operations in Libya contribution of Birmingham’s care assistants and the loving cannot be sustained for longer than three months families who look after their loved ones, will the Prime without serious cuts elsewhere. Given those problems— Minister join me in condemning Birmingham city council [Interruption.] for cutting care for 4,100 of the most vulnerable in our city, branded unlawful by the High Court? What does Mr Speaker: Order. No help from Government Back he intend to do to ensure that never again will Birmingham Benchers is required. A quick sentence from the hon. city council fail the elderly and the disabled? Gentleman. The Prime Minister: Everyone in the House should Mike Gapes: Is it not time that the Prime Minister welcome the fact that it is carers week. I will be having a reopened the defence review and did yet another U-turn reception in No. 10 tonight to celebrate carers week on his failed policies? with many people who take part and who are carers. This Government are putting in £400 million to give carers more breaks and £800 million specifically to The Prime Minister: He is called Mark Stanhope, if make sure that those looking after disabled children get that helps. regular breaks. What we have in Birmingham is an I had a meeting with the First Sea Lord yesterday at excellent Conservative and Liberal Democrat alliance which he agreed that we can sustain the mission for as doing a very good job recovering from the complete long as we need to, and those were exactly the words mess that Labour made of that city for decade after that the Chief of the Defence Staff used yesterday, decade. because we are doing the right thing. I want one simple message to go out from every part of the Government, Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con): Last night on and indeed from every part of the House of Commons: Channel 4 there was a documentary called “Sri Lanka’s time is on our side. We have NATO, the United Nations Killing Fields”, showing the atrocities committed by and the Arab League. We have right on our side. The the Sri Lankan Government against the Tamil people, pressure is building militarily, diplomatically and politically, which resulted in about 40,000 people being killed. Will and time is running out for Gaddafi. the Prime Minister join me in calling for justice for the On the defence review, I would simply say that for Tamil people, and for the people who lost their lives? 10 years the Labour party did not have a defence review, but now it wants two in a row. At the end of the review The Prime Minister: I did not see the documentary, we have the fourth highest defence budget of any country but I understand it was an extremely powerful programme. in the world. We have superb armed forces who are It refers to some very worrying events that are alleged to superbly equipped, and they are doing a great job in the have taken place towards the end of that campaign. The skies above Libya. Government, along with other Governments, have said that the Sri Lankan Government needs that to be Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): By the time investigated, and the UN needs it to be investigated. We Prime Minister’s questions finishes, 450 children will need to make sure that we get to the bottom of what have died from preventable disease and famine. Is it not happened, and that lessons are learned. the case that increasing Britain’s aid budget is very much the right thing to do, and will save millions of Q13. [59606] Eric Joyce (Falkirk) (Lab): The Prime lives across the world? Minister will be aware of the shambles of corporate governance that is the Eurasian Natural Resources The Prime Minister: I very much welcome the support Corporation. I would not expect him to comment from my hon. Friend for the policy of increasing our specifically on that, but does he agree, on behalf of aid budget and meeting the target of 0.7% of gross millions of pensionholders and small shareholders across national income. There are good reasons for doing this. the country, that high standards of corporate governance First, we are keeping a promise to the poorest people of in the City of London are critical, as is the role of the the poorest countries of the world, and we are saving Financial Reporting Council? lives. Yes, of course things are difficult at home, but we should keep that promise even in the midst of difficulties. The Prime Minister: I am aware of the problem. The Secondly, we are making sure that our aid budget is hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which is spent very specifically on things like vaccinations for that of course we want companies to come to London children that will save lives, so the money that we to access capital and float on the main market or the announced this week will mean a child vaccinated every AIM market. It is one of the attractions of Britain that two seconds and a life saved every two minutes. The last we are an open global economy, but when those companies point that I would make to anyone who has doubts come, they must understand that we have rules of about this issue is that as well as saving lives, it is also corporate governance that are there for a reason, and about Britain standing for something in the world and they need to obey those rules. I am sure my right hon. standing up for something in the world—the importance Friend the Chancellor will address that not only in his of having a strong aid budget, saving lives and mending speech tonight, but in the papers that we will be publishing broken countries, as well as having— in subsequent days. 779 Oral Answers15 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 780

Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): Does the Prime Minister tragically, we still have Greek levels of Government agree that if the coalition Government had not adopted debt but German levels of interest rates. That is an the economic policy that they did, but listened to the enormous monetary boost to our economy, and we advice of the shadow Chancellor instead, mortgage should all welcome the cut in unemployment today. If interest rates could be 5% higher than they are now? we had not taken action on the deficit and proved to the markets that we had a way of paying back the debt and The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a very the deficit, we would be straight back in the mess that important point, which is that in this country today, that lot left us in. 781 15 JUNE 2011 Humanitarian Emergency Responses 782

Humanitarian Emergency Responses We will deliver humanitarian assistance in three main ways. We will provide predictable support for our multilateral humanitarian partners, including the 12.35 pm International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement The Secretary of State for International Development and the United Nations. In humanitarian emergencies, (Mr Andrew Mitchell): rose— where there is compelling and overwhelming need, we will provide additional resources to the international Mr Speaker: I appeal, as always on these occasions, system, Governments, charities and non-governmental to hon. and right hon. Members leaving the Chamber organisations. We will intervene directly where the UK to do so quickly and quietly so that those remaining can can contribute in ways that others cannot or where listen uninterrupted to the Secretary of State’s statement. there is substantial public interest in our doing so. Let me turn to the detail of our response. Lord Mr Mitchell: I should like to make a statement on the Ashdown’s report identifies seven specific themes: resilience, Government’s response, which I will publish in detail anticipation, leadership, innovation, accountability, online later today, to the humanitarian and emergency partnership and humanitarian space. I will address each response review carried out by Lord Ashdown of Norton- in turn. It is not enough for us simply to pick up the sub-Hamdon. pieces once a disaster has struck. We need to help The Ashdown report is a deeply impressive document. vulnerable communities to prepare for disasters and to It makes a compelling, clear and powerful case for become more resilient. That is where we can have most reform. The Government agree with and endorse the impact and where we can prevent lives from being lost. review’s central thesis and will accept the vast majority More resilient communities and countries will also recover of its specific recommendations. Indeed, in many areas faster from disaster. I commit DFID therefore to build we will go beyond its specific recommendations in order resilience into all its country programmes. to drive faster improvement in the international response We must anticipate and be prepared for disasters. We to disasters. I am extremely grateful to Lord Ashdown will work with Governments and the international system and his team for the work they have done to produce to become better at understanding where climate change, such a compelling and well-argued review. His formidable seismic activity, seasonal fluctuations and conflict will insight and experience shine through it. I am also lead to humanitarian disasters. With others, we will set grateful to all those who have taken the time and up a global risk register of those countries most at risk, trouble to respond to the consultation and whose experience so that the international effort can be more focused. has added to the quality of the recommendations. The review calls for stronger leadership by the I pay tribute today to those Brits around the world international community. We strongly agree that the who are working tirelessly in extreme circumstances to United Nations must be central to this, and I am save lives during humanitarian crises. Their work, which extremely pleased that, under the leadership of the is often unsung and undertaken at real personal risk, is emergency relief co-ordinator, Baroness Amos, the UN truly heroic. I also pay tribute to the role of the British has already made that a priority. Britain will specifically armed forces in responding to humanitarian emergencies. back her agenda for change, but I accept that significant In Pakistan last year our armed forces provided swift challenges remain. Members from all parts of the House and effective relief, flying in emergency bridges to reconnect need only look back to the Haiti earthquake or the families separated by the floods. In Haiti they brought Pakistan floods to see examples of the United Nations life-saving equipment and supplies to those stricken by failing to deliver the leadership that was badly needed, the earthquake. so we will work with other donors for much needed The report sets a challenging agenda for the 21st century. reforms. It recognises that, although disasters are nothing new, The review highlights the role that innovation and we are experiencing a sudden increase in their intensity science can play in every aspect of humanitarian response. and frequency. It makes it clear that this trend will only We will establish an innovations team to embed grow with climate change, population growth and greater humanitarian research and innovation in our core work. urbanisation. The review concluded that the Department We must always be accountable for and transparent for International Development has played a strong role about how we spend our development budget. It is in improving the quality of the wider international taxpayers’ money. That duty of accountability extends response. It is an area where Britain is well respected not only to British citizens and taxpayers, but to those and well regarded, but there is no room for complacency, who depend upon our aid. We will therefore make which is why I commissioned the review and why the accountability central to our humanitarian work and Government will take action to implement it. do more to measure our own impact and that of our In the Government’s response to the review, I have set partners. out how, in collaboration with others, we will rise to the Rarely is partnership more important than in the challenges presented and how we will do even more to delivery of humanitarian aid. The strength and quality help people stricken by disasters and emergencies. There of that co-ordination can make the difference between are some fundamental principles that will guide our life and death. We must therefore strive to develop response to humanitarian emergencies. First, we will stronger alliances, particularly with new donors, including continue to apply the core principles of humanity, the Gulf states, China and Brazil. We must improve the impartiality and neutrality to all Government humanitarian quality of our relationships with other key bilateral action. Secondly, we will respect, and promote respect donors, making sure that our efforts are better co-ordinated for, international humanitarian law. Thirdly, and crucially, and the burden of responsibility shared. I also want to we will be motivated not by political, security or economic involve fully charities, NGOs, faith groups, the diaspora objectives, but by need and need alone. and the private sector in our emergency response work. 783 Humanitarian Emergency Responses15 JUNE 2011 Humanitarian Emergency Responses 784

The review calls for the protection and expansion of The report recognises that DFID has been widely humanitarian space, including for people brutally affected praised for its leading role in the international humanitarian by armed conflict. That is crucial to our aim of protecting community. The Secretary of State will know that since civilians in conflict situations. We must make a consolidated 2005 the Department has been one of the leading voices effort throughout the Government, using all diplomatic, in calling for reforms in the international humanitarian legal, humanitarian and military tools, to secure unfettered system. We welcome the fact that the Government’s and immediate access for humanitarian relief wherever response recognises the need to strengthen international we can. leadership, but what specific steps will he take to bring We recognise that to deliver this ambitious agenda, it about that change? Will the Government take the lead is right that we change the way in which we fund the in initiating a new round of high-level talks at the UN system, making it more effective and efficient, particularly to push for greater reform, as the Labour Government in the first hours of an emergency. I have looked at the did back in 2005? Why have the Government rejected a performance and efficiency that different humanitarian recommendation in the report to encourage the convening agencies offer. Many offer good value for money and of a UN high-level panel to look at ways of improving have a sound track record in delivering results, saving the international system to face future challenges? lives and reducing suffering in some of the world’s most Our efforts in government also led to an expansion of difficult places. Some, however, do not. I am therefore the important central emergency response fund, and the outlining today increased core support for the best report says that the fund should be expanded further. performing humanitarian multilaterals. I have also We welcome the extra $40 million that the Government commissioned detailed work to design a new facility announced for the fund in December last year, but can that will enable prequalified charities and NGOs to the Secretary of State tell us what the UK is doing to respond to crises within the first 72 hours, and to design push other donor countries to make a similar substantial a new mechanism to support the strongest performing contribution? Does he agree that, as well as improvements British charities to improve the timeliness and quality in its response to disaster, the international community of responses to humanitarian causes. The Government must do more to help to prevent and predict disasters, will consult further on the details of those two instruments. as Lord Ashdown’s report underlines? This country is a world leader in responding to As we have recently seen in Libya, gaining access to humanitarian emergencies. By implementing Lord deliver humanitarian relief can be extremely difficult. I Ashdown’s recommendations, and by working alongside pay tribute to the many organisations, such as the new partners, the private sector and other countries’ International Committee of the Red Cross, Islamic Governments, we can be even better. I want this House Relief, World Vision and Save the Children, which are and this country to be proud of our efforts, knowing often the first to reach those who need help. Will the that we in Britain will be there when the disaster strikes. Secretary of State assure us that he will do all he can to Let me end with the words of a survivor of a cyclone ensure that aid workers can operate in safety and that in Haiti: aid is delivered in a way that ensures its neutrality and “The water started to rise, and it did not stop...the water was impartiality? already so high and strong that I could not hold on to one of my children and the water swept her away. Luckily someone was there DFID is indeed rightly recognised around the world to grab her.” for its leadership in responding at times of crisis, and I pay tribute to its expert staff. Does the Secretary of I commend this statement to the House. State agree that in anticipating and responding to humanitarian emergencies, it is essential to have expert Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ and skilled people? As DFID is reducing its administration Co-op): I thank the Secretary of State for his statement budget by a third, can he assure us the necessary investment and for advance sight of the Government’s response to in humanitarian skills will be made given the scale of Lord Ashdown’s report. May I advise the House that I such cuts? am responding today because my right hon. and learned Friend the shadow Secretary of State is currently visiting Lord Ashdown’s report recognises that the international Sierra Leone? We welcome Lord Ashdown’s important humanitarian system is poorly equipped to ensure an report. I pay tribute to him and to those who worked equitable response for the most vulnerable—for example, with him to produce an impressive and excellent set of women, children, the elderly and people with disabilities. proposals. I welcome what the Secretary of State said in that regard and what the Government say in response to the Over the past year, in Pakistan, Haiti, Chile, Japan, full report. Will he assure us, however, that the Government New Zealand and Indonesia, we have seen the terrible will ensure that across the areas identified in the report, destruction caused by a range of natural disasters. In women in particular will be fully involved in the response Libya and Ivory Coast, we have seen how humanitarian to disaster, wherever it occurs? crises can develop incredibly rapidly, threatening the lives and livelihoods of thousands of people. Lord Lord Ashdown’s report underlines the important role Ashdown’s report reminds us that the number of that diaspora communities play in responding to disaster, humanitarian crises is likely to increase, and we must be both through remittances and by raising awareness. I ready to respond rapidly and effectively. We welcome am glad that the Secretary of State recognised that in the report’s emphasis on working through multilateral his statement. Can he give us more information on organisations. Does the Secretary of State agree that what he will do to ensure that there is greater recognition working multilaterally is generally the best way to ensure of the money that hard-working people in people in greater co-ordination and coherence in response to the UK send home to help people in the developing disaster and to prevent it? world? 785 Humanitarian Emergency Responses15 JUNE 2011 Humanitarian Emergency Responses 786

[Mark Lazarowicz] that. That is why we published the transparency guarantee early in the lifetime of the Government. When taxpayers’ The Ashdown report is an important step forward. money was used to alleviate the results of the floods in Labour provided a strong lead on this issue in government, Pakistan last year, we had a floods monitor online so which produced real reform, but we know that there is that people could see how hard-earned British taxpayers’ much more to do. As Lord Ashdown said, humanitarian money was being spent and what relief it was securing. work In respect of these proposals, I believe that the “cannot be the sticking plaster for a lack of political action”, International Development Committee has announced but it can make an important contribution to alleviating that it will consider in about a year’s time whether we suffering around the world. Today’s welcome words have enacted what we have said we will do. need to be transferred into concrete action to ensure that in times of crisis, our aid helps those who need it Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): I thank the Secretary most. of State for his statement and Lord Ashdown for his excellent report. On behalf of the International Mr Mitchell: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his Development Committee, I thank Lord Ashdown for welcome and for his words about the team who constructed his active engagement with us on two separate occasions the Ashdown report under Lord Ashdown, and about when we were preparing our report on the Pakistan the response from my team, particularly those in DFID’s floods. I note that the Secretary of State said that he conflict, humanitarian and security department. will publish more detail than he could put in the statement on the steps that are being taken to improve the UK The hon. Gentleman is right that there is a huge response. amount of common ground on this matter. In opposition, we long realised that there was a necessity not to be Will the Secretary of State say what role the UK can complacent, but to accept that we could do some things play in getting UN leadership, not least to ensure that in better. That is why my right hon. Friend the present the most vulnerable countries the UN co-ordinator has Prime Minister, some two years before the election, both the competence and the line-management authority called for a report like this, and why we have carried it to execute effective rescue operations? He spoke about out. the co-ordination of NGOs and lead NGOs. Can he ensure that that is not just a UK response, but that such The hon. Gentleman was right to underline that all co-ordination will happen internationally so that NGOs serious research suggests that the number of disasters do not get in each others’ way and have the opposite will increase by as much as 50% over the next 15 years. effect to helping in the disaster? That adds additional urgency to the work that we are doing. He was right to make it clear that the right way Mr Mitchell: My right hon. Friend is entirely right to lead in these disasters is through the multilateral about those dangers, which he and his Select Committee system. That is why we are determined to play our part have identified in their work, not least on the crisis in in making that system better. The cluster system that Haiti and the international response to it, particularly operates within it, in which Britain takes a leading role, in the early hours. is the right approach and we will do everything that we can to see that it improves. On co-ordination, I did not answer the question from the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark The central emergency response fund was set up by Lazarowicz) about the high-level panel. It is important the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), to make it clear that Baroness Amos is leading an who is sitting alongside the hon. Member for Edinburgh effective reform programme as the emergency relief North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz), and we supported co-ordinator. We back her strongly in that role, as do it strongly in opposition. We think that it works extremely the heads of the UN agencies. I continue to talk to her well and that it provides additional and immediate and others at the UN about the findings of the multilateral money in the event of a disaster. That is why we have aid review and the humanitarian emergency response significantly increased resources to the CERF. The review. That is the right way to take this agenda forward, additional fund that I announced today for help in the so let us see how we get on with that. first 72 hours from pre-qualified charities and NGOs will enable us to carry on the principle of that work in, I Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) believe, a more effective way. (Lab): I thank the Secretary of State for his statement The hon. Gentleman was right to make the point that and Lord Ashdown for a comprehensive report. On building in resilience from day one is vital in all the partnership, does the Secretary of State agree with Lord work we do, and that is now happening. He was equally Ashdown’s very strong view that we should consult correct about the importance of gaining access for those who receive aid, civil society in developing countries, humanitarian relief, which is something that we have and NGOs in areas where there is an established need, called for consistently in Libya and will continue to call because those are the people on the ground who are for in Syria and South Kordofan in Sudan. He was right best placed to tell us what is going on? that women should always be involved in such work. The role of women as people who suffer from humanitarian Mr Mitchell: The right hon. Gentleman is extremely disasters on the front line is well understood. We give experienced in these matters and he is absolutely right. I that issue our strong support through this work. am grateful for his comments about the Ashdown report. I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s point about The issue of partnership, which Lord Ashdown identifies remittancing and that there must be transparency in all so clearly, and the issue of accountability are at the that we do. As he pointed out, the money that we spend forefront of what we seek to do. For example, when we is taxpayers’ money. We are committed to recognising published the multilateral aid review, we did not keep it 787 Humanitarian Emergency Responses15 JUNE 2011 Humanitarian Emergency Responses 788 as an internal document, but put it online. We invited the report on the agenda for change by Baroness Amos, those we were assessing to comment on what we said can the Secretary of State assure us that his Department and the recipients of the money to hold us to account. will relentlessly keep up the pressure on the UN? The We will continue to do that. The right hon. Gentleman next disaster, God forbid, may come tomorrow, and we is right to say that in the poorest parts of the world, need to know that the UN is fit for purpose today. understanding the effect of what we do on those we are seeking to help is vital to making the whole operation Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to more effective. make that point. It is the quality of local leadership on the ground that determines how quickly we can respond. Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con): I welcome Inevitably, although the UN actors on the ground are this report and the Government’s response to it. Will extremely good at what they do in normal times, they the Secretary of State confirm that he sees a significant are sometimes not the right people to respond to disasters. role in the reshaped British humanitarian response to That is why it is essential to get people there who can disasters for small, niche charities, such as the west provide the necessary quality of leadership. For example, country-based ShelterBox, which are often the first on it was very interesting that the presence of John Ging, the scene with important life-saving equipment such as the No. 2 to Valerie Amos, in Libya very shortly after tents, cooking facilities and water? I am sure that he the conflict started led to an immediate response of a does. much better quality than we had previously seen.

Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend is right about the Jon Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): Many absolute priority that the Government place on supporting communities in my constituency—particularly those such smaller charities. Many people from both sides of from Pakistan and Bangladesh, although I could name the House will have seen them doing brilliant work many others—have a commendable record of contributing overseas. There are a number of mechanisms through to relief when humanitarian disaster strikes. Given that, which they are supported. There is, of course, the global can the Secretary of State give us some more details of poverty action fund, which will have a fresh round for how he expects to involve diaspora communities in NGOs and charities in a month or two. ShelterBox, emergency relief work and ensure that their expertise is which my hon. Friend mentioned, will be known to taken advantage of? many Members. It does a brilliant job and we support it strongly. Mr Mitchell: It depends on the disaster, but the hon. Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): I Gentleman is entirely correct to point to the valuable welcome the Secretary of State’s words today, in particular work that diaspora communities do. In the case of the his praise for the contribution of British NGOs in Pakistan floods last year, the Pakistani diaspora, not responding to humanitarian disasters. I appreciate his least in the midlands, made a tremendous contribution continuing support for the central role of the UN, in not only financially but through a number of different particular the agency that Valerie Amos leads so well. I charities to which it gave strong support, not least gently point out to him that it was disappointing that no Islamic Relief. That meant that it played a vital part in British Minister attended the CERF annual meeting in the overall British relief effort that was mobilised. December. Given that America and France, two of our leading allies in the development debate, do not contribute Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): I welcome to the CERF, will he set out how his leadership on this this excellent report and the Government’s response to issue will lead to the topic being placed on the agendas it. Does my right hon. Friend agree that many of the of the G8, European Development Ministers and perhaps most deprived and threatened people are those in war a No. 10 summit, so that there is more investment in the zones? Does he further agree that the inter-agency CERF to help the UN give the leadership it so desperately working that he stressed so heavily, bringing together needs to give? diplomatic, military and aid effort and the best of the non-governmental organisations, is in the very best Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman will understand interests of the criterion of need, and does not compromise that we consider attendance at such meetings on the it, as has occasionally been suggested? basis of need. We consider whether our attendance or our work in advance of a meeting will have the most Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend makes an extremely effect. I and my ministerial colleagues travel ferociously good point. Of course, people who live in conflict areas in pursuit of this agenda. We have contributed in a large lose out twice over, first because they are very poor and number of ways to the shape of the international secondly because they are permanently frightened by community’s handling of humanitarian emergencies. the conflict that is going on around them. That is why The multilateral aid review played a significant part in the coalition Government have made an absolute priority that and the Ashdown review has played an enormous of doing much more in conflicted areas to bring help to part in it. The Ashdown review is being read avidly by people who are doubly cursed in that way. He is also most of those who are engaged in this important work. right to point out that although humanitarian relief For the future, we will consider, as we always do, what is should always be circumstance-blind and help those the most effective way in which Britain can intervene to who are in great need, proper co-ordination among all ensure the overall effectiveness of this vital work. those who can help is essential.

Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): The UN Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): As the Secretary of has been notoriously slow and unco-ordinated in the State knows, there is a continuing argument in the past in responding to certain disasters, as a result of the development community about whether it is appropriate poor leadership that has been identified. Notwithstanding for the military to deliver humanitarian aid. I should 789 Humanitarian Emergency Responses15 JUNE 2011 Humanitarian Emergency Responses 790

[Ann Clwyd] Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I welcome the Secretary of State’s positive response to my noble Friend’s like to pay my own tribute to the British armed forces, report. Together with the Government’s pledge to fulfil whom I have seen in many parts of the world delivering the 40-year-old promise to spend 0.7% of our national humanitarian aid to people who would have died if they income on development assistance, including the had not been there at the appropriate time. outstanding promise to the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisation, that puts us in a potentially world- leading position in international development and Mr Mitchell: The right hon. Lady makes a truly humanitarian assistance. Can he reassure us, though, excellent point. Like her, I have seen how the military that the pre-qualification process that he described will have delivered to desperate people at times of great not inadvertently disadvantage the smaller local NGOs need. We saw it, indeed, in Pakistan last year. We have that are obviously on the ground first and, as the review not needed military support to deliver aid in Libya so makes clear, often do an excellent job at very low cost? far, although the military have been willing to provide it. I have discussed the matter frequently with Valerie Amos, who takes a sensible and pragmatic view in the Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend makes a good point. interests, which we all serve, of trying to get aid and We are going to consult about the pre-qualification support through to people who are in great need. process, to ensure that that does not happen. The fund will be there to help those who are already on the ground, so that in the first 72 hours, when action is Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I welcome critical for reasons that the House will acknowledge, we the excellent Secretary of State’s statement. One problem can ensure that money is not a barrier to immediate and appears to be the loss of life in the early hours of a effective action. I therefore think I can reassure him on disaster. We have seen emergency response teams ready that point. to go from this country but being stopped because they The GAVIpledging conference that took place yesterday do not have clearance to land in the areas affected. will have a direct effect on disaster relief, because it will What can be done about that problem? prevent children from getting sick. We should all be enormously proud of the leadership of Britain and the Mr Mitchell: I think my hon. Friend is referring to a Prime Minister. As a result of the replenishment conference particular incident involving a Scottish charity. I have exceeding its target yesterday by some $600 million, we looked at that incident in detail, and I am happy that will be able to vaccinate more than a quarter of a billion what he says about it is not actually correct. However, it children over the next five years in the poorest parts of is extremely important that there should be really good the world and save nearly 5 million lives. co-ordination. We should not have the situation that we saw all too frequently in Haiti, which was a huge Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I welcome the Secretary number of people heading towards a disaster target of State’s thinking on a standing faculty for emergency without the co-ordination to ensure that they could be response, including NGOs. Can he assure us that there effective on the ground. will be no tension in practice between the follow-through on the Ashdown review and the follow-through on the previous DFID reviews, which put particular emphasis Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): May I add my on buying results? The Ashdown review particularly own voice to the welcome for the report of the noble emphasises resilience, innovation and science, and Lord Ashdown and the Government’s response to it? humanitarian space in areas of conflict, the benefits of As part of its inquiry into the humanitarian response to which are not always as quantifiable as those of some the Pakistan floods, the International Development other measures. Will the Secretary of State ensure that Committee found that some eight months after the the Ashdown recommendations are not casualties of disaster, and with millions still in need of assistance, the results-buying emphasis of previous reviews? only one third of the $2 billion UN appeal funds had been disbursed in Pakistan. The noble Lord’s report Mr Mitchell: All three reviews to which the hon. states that that was disappointing, maybe even inadequate, Gentleman refers focus directly on the results that we and adds that it cost money, opportunities and perhaps are achieving, not only in delivering real value for even lives. What leadership will the Government show money to British taxpayers, whose money we are deploying, at UN level to ensure that that does not happen again? but for those whom we are trying to help. Whereas the Ashdown review was a review given to the Government, Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman identifies one of to which I am responding today, the first two were the problems with the relief effort that the international reviews by the Government. If the hon. Gentleman community mounted in Pakistan. Indeed, the Select looks carefully at all three, he will find that they are Committee on which he serves has produced a most seamlessly joined by the common interest of ensuring valuable report, from which the international system that international development work from Britain is will learn relevant lessons. I think it would be fair to say more effective and buys yet greater results. that as far as Britain’s support was concerned, we were the first country to come in great scale to give strong Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): I cannot think of support to the people of Pakistan in their hours of anyone better than Lord Ashdown to have produced greatest need. Britain also continually pushed and prodded such a report, and I congratulate the Secretary of State the international system to up its game. That was what on commissioning it. The real lead on humanitarian we did at the time, and those are also the tactics that we responses is, properly, the United Nations. We have a are using now. The report will be helpful in achieving first-class person for emergency co-ordination in the them. UN, in Baroness Amos. However, above her in the UN 791 Humanitarian Emergency Responses15 JUNE 2011 Humanitarian Emergency Responses 792 is the Security Council, which too often makes decisions Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): Even though the at the speed of a striking slug. Is there any way in which Secretary of State has been in office for only a year, he is we, as a permanent member of the Security Council, turning out to be outstanding at his job, supported by a can encourage other members and ourselves to make a very fine team of Ministers. Will he confirm that nothing special case for emergency responses, so that we are not in his statement will affect the Government’s ability to constrained by the requirements of veto, unanimity or deliver relief to the people of Yemen? It is one of the majority voting? poorest countries in the world, and it is on the brink of civil war. Will he confirm that we can still help the Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend, who knows a great Yemeni people? deal about these issues, tempts me to stray beyond my areas of competence. However, I can tell him that the Mr Mitchell: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his Foreign Secretary has been ceaselessly engaged over the kind remarks. We understand the importance of Yemen, last week in precisely that way in respect of a new which remains on a humanitarian knife edge. With the resolution on Syria. Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs, I am conscious of my hon. Friend’s point, and I agree we are looking specifically at needs mapping within that it was absolutely right to appoint Lord Ashdown, Yemen for when we can get back there. We continue to whose peculiar combination of talent and experience give very strong support to the agencies that conduct has led to this extremely good, wise and sensible report. humanitarian relief in Yemen, and to bear in mind at all I also agree with my hon. Friend that it is important to times whether we can do more to assist. prioritise the UN, and to understand that at the end of the day, only the UN can be the chief co-ordinator. The Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): I warmly UN is essential if we are to have an effective response welcome the Ashdown report and the Government’s on the ground. response. May I urge the Government to take an integrated, cross-departmental approach to this that includes the Mr Speaker: We are grateful to the Secretary of Department of Energy and Climate Change, the Foreign State—there clearly isn’t a dry eye in the House. and Commonwealth Office and the Ministry of Defence as well as DFID, in order to anticipate better how Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): The different risk factors can combine to threaten human Secretary of State says that he wishes to put women and life? For example, water shortage in a politically volatile girls at the heart of his development policy. He will be area could trigger conflict, turning a humanitarian problem aware that violence against women and girls is a feature into a humanitarian disaster. in such crises. How do we deal with that problem better? Mr Mitchell: I thank my hon. Friend for her comments, Mr Mitchell: It is an absolute priority of the Government which are extremely helpful. She is right to talk about to try to stop violence against women—we have some the absolute importance of integration. I can reassure 15 country programmes for which that is an absolute her to this extent: proposals on climate change, on priority. I attended the Home Secretary’s meeting of which we are involved in much work, come to a cross- Ministers yesterday on that very subject, and spoke ministerial board, which includes DECC, DFID, the about the international dimension of it. The hon. Lady Treasury and other Departments that have a direct may rest assured that it remains right at the top of our interest. As I indicated in my statement, we will not agenda. Of course, women and girls suffer most in such forget the importance of strong, cross-Whitehall crises. We have provided protection for children and collaboration. displaced women, not least in respect of the Ivory Coast-Liberian border, on which my hon. Friend the Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): I welcome what Under-Secretary of State leads. That is the most important the Secretary of State says about resilience and enabling aspect of the work that we do there. countries to respond better if a crisis strikes, but does he recognise that some humanitarian crises can be avoided? Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): I welcome both If we did more work on food security and pre-positioning the Ashdown report and the Government response. food stocks—in the horn of Africa, say—on climate DFID is a world-class organisation with a world-class change or on regional integration, such as by getting an reputation. upstream country to warn a downstream country when It is particularly important to focus on anticipation. a flood is coming, we could avoid crises. Work must be The risk register is a great addition to the tools that done by DFID and the UN on that. DFID can use. On that basis, will we also develop strategies to mitigate that risk and that can ensure that Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman is entirely correct. we push and help countries to move along a pathway to That is why we have, for example, consistently sought to reduce the risk that they face from, for example, climate pre-position food and shelter in respect of Sudan, which change? until very recently has not been required. In respect of Pakistan, we are trying to ensure that we understand Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend identifies entirely accurately the monsoon pattern and whether any flooding will one of the seven key points made by Lord Ashdown take place this year. The review and the Government’s and his advisory committee in their report. Anticipating response rightly recognise his point on encouraging disaster and ensuring that we develop a comprehensive resilience and anticipation. risk register, and working on disaster reduction, which is one thing that the Minister of State has focused on in Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): Nepal, are essential if we are to take that agenda May I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement? He forward. will know that there was an earthquake in Nepal 70 or 793 Humanitarian Emergency Responses15 JUNE 2011 Humanitarian Emergency Responses 794

[Rehman Chishti] Britain has a unique skill or the capacity to intervene in a humanitarian situation, we should always consider so years ago and that another is predicted imminently. whether it is right to do so. That was my point and it is What steps are his Department taking to plan for that narrower than the basis on which he seeks to get me to and to assist if that need arises? proceed.

Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend accurately recognises a Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): I warmly welcome serious threat within Nepal. That is one reason why the both Lord Ashdown’s report and the Government’s Minister of State has taken a close interest, including by response. In a humanitarian crisis, securing access to visiting Nepal and talking to all those who are involved clean water and sanitation is often one of the key there about the role of disaster reduction. We take very challenges. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is strong account in our planning of the points that my hugely important that engineering charities such as hon. Friend rightly makes, not only in respect of Nepal, RedR and WaterAid are given the support they need to but in other areas of stress and vulnerability. provide technical assistance in an emergency and upskill local people to make that sustainable? Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): May I, too, welcome Lord Ashdown’s report and the Mr Mitchell: The hon. Lady makes a very good Secretary of State’s statement? Does he agree that there point. She identifies two of Britain’s brilliant NGOs, are particular dangers for those involved when a RedR and WaterAid, which both do such good work in humanitarian emergency results from a political crisis? some of the most challenging places anywhere in the He will remember the kidnapping of the head of Caritas world. She also identifies the importance of clean water earlier this year during the crisis in Côte d’Ivoire. Soldiers and sanitation. Britain is doing this in terms of steady will continue to play an important role in providing state development, with a commitment to get more humanitarian relief, but will he ensure that assistance is clean water and sanitation to people in the poor world always given on its merits, and that it is not conditional than the total population of Scotland, Wales and Northern on political strategy or military engagement? Ireland, and in terms of our work through the cluster system, giving strong support on water and sanitation, Mr Mitchell: The right hon. Gentleman makes a not least to Oxfam. That is an absolute priority in good point on which I sought to be absolutely clear in almost all humanitarian disasters. my opening remarks. Humanitarian relief must be needs- based, and must not take account of such extraneous Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): factors. That is the commitment of the British Government The objectives set out in Lord Ashdown’s report will —it has long been a commitment of Governments of require what he calls “transformational change” across all parties, and it continues just as strongly today. the Department to give greater prominence to the humanitarian agenda. In the Government’s response, Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Whenever will the Secretary of State set out in more detail how he disaster strikes, and in almost whatever form it takes, intends to bring forward that transformational change, there always seems to be a shortage of helicopters. in particular with regard to staffing and programming What can we do to improve international co-ordination of DFID projects? to ensure a quicker and better helicopter lift capacity in emergency zones? Mr Mitchell: The answer is that I will and I have. I commend to the hon. Lady the 35-page report which should now be on the internet, and I urge her to have a Mr Mitchell: My hon. Friend makes an extremely look at it and respond if she has any additional good point. He rightly identifies that problem as one of comments—as I urge all hon. Members to do. the critical pinch points, as it was particularly in Pakistan last summer. We are considering that and a number of Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): All the humanitarian similar issues, and I hope to have more to say in due aid we give for natural disasters, such as that in Pakistan, course. or to countries with civil unrest, such Syria, Egypt and Sudan, is good news. However, the feedback from some Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): In his of those countries is that those of a Christian faith and introduction, the Secretary of State said that “we will in evangelical Churches are at the back of the queue intervene directly where the UK can contribute in ways and ignored when it comes to humanitarian aid. What that others cannot”. I welcome that, but will he clarify steps will the Minister take to ensure that that two-tier whether that means intervening for the sake of the system of assistance will not continue to disadvantage responsibility to protect agenda? If so, does he agree those of that faith in those countries? that often, humanitarian disasters occur in areas of conflict or failed states, and that we therefore have a Mr Mitchell: I hear those allegations from time to responsibility to recognise that we must sometimes act time and I always ensure that they are investigated with quickly and without the agreement of the relevant the seriousness and rigour that such allegations obviously Government? deserve. We have set up a working party with all the faith communities, which will commence work shortly. Mr Mitchell: In respect of the responsibility to protect, That will be quite a good issue for the faith communities the hon. Gentleman will know that that is a technical to address and advise on. On the hon. Gentleman’s UN term that triggers certain other actions. The point specific point, we take all such matters extremely seriously that I was making was narrower and it was that if and investigate them immediately. 795 15 JUNE 2011 796

Points of Order Remembrance Day (Bank Holiday) Motion for leave to introduce a Bill (Standing Order 1.23 pm No. 23) Eric Joyce (Falkirk) (Lab): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I received a letter this morning before I 1.26 pm asked the Prime Minister a question about a company called ENRC. The letter was from the solicitors Mischon Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): I beg to move, de Reya and it referred to comments that I made during That leave be given to bring in a Bill to designate the Monday an Adjournment debate on 23 May. Essentially, it accuses after Remembrance Sunday as an annual bank holiday in the me of a misuse of parliamentary privilege and I ask for United Kingdom with effect from 2012; and for connected purposes. your advice on what, if anything, I should do next. It This Bill would consolidate and entrench long-term seems to me that if I call someone “a shady middle public support for our armed forces. My constituency man”—as I did Dan Gertler, their client—because that of Devizes includes many of the Salisbury plain garrison is what I believe to be true and a justifiable comment, it towns and is home to more than 10,000 members of the is a use of parliamentary privilege rather than a misuse. armed forces and at least the same number of service The letter appears to be an attempt to constrain a family members. Member of Parliament from expressing his views clearly and fairly in this House. My father, both grandfathers and my great-grandfather served in the British Army. I am therefore particularly Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for proud to wear a poppy in early November, sport various his point of order and for advance notice of his intention charity wristbands, attend homecomings and parades to put it to me. My response is twofold. First, if he in both Westminster and Wiltshire, observe the silence wishes to make a complaint about the attempted denial at 11 am on Armistice Day, and to lay a wreath on of his parliamentary privilege by the firm of lawyers to Remembrance Sunday. Indeed, laying a wreath at the which he refers, he needs to write to me and I will Devizes war memorial last November was one of the consider that complaint in accordance with the normal most solemn and thought-provoking moments of my procedure. Secondly, I recall clearly that I was in the new career as a Member of Parliament. I am also proud Chair for that Adjournment debate on 23 May. If he to support armed forces day, introduced more than two had been out of order, I would have said so. I did not, years ago and held in late June. I know that in all of this because he was not. support I am joined by Members on both sides of the House and millions of people across the country. Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): On a point of order, But I fear that with all of these initiatives and Mr Speaker. Earlier, I asked the Minister of State, opportunities to show our support we have perhaps Cabinet Office, whether he could tell me the date on fragmented that support—diluted the brand. And many which parliamentary counsel were instructed to draft events happen at weekends when working families—as I amendments to the Health and Social Care Bill following know for myself—can face as many time pressures as the NHS Future Forum consultation. In response, the they do during the week, sometimes making their Minister of State referred me to the Health Secretary. In participation in weekend events difficult. fact, the Minister of State is responsible for parliamentary counsel and should respond to that question. What I am also concerned that while we have seen a real guidance can you give on how to obtain that information upwelling of support for the armed forces in the last few as the Minister responsible did not respond to the years, due in no small part to the tireless work of the question? Royal British Legion who are Britain’s “custodians of remembrance”, as well as the work of charities such as Mr Speaker: I am grateful for that point of order, of Help for Heroes—headquartered in my constituency— which I was unsighted. I make no complaint about that, SSAFA and the Army Benevolent Fund, when our but I simply say that I am giving an off-the-cuff response soldiers return home from their current operations it to the hon. Gentleman. Which Minister responds to a may be difficult to keep this momentum going and to particular question put by the hon. Gentleman is a matter ensure that we as a country deliver on our obligations for the Government. I am sorry if the hon. Gentleman under the military covenant. A day set aside in our busy is disappointed by the response—or what he regards as calendars for remembrance, support and celebration of the absence of a response—but he is an experienced and our armed forces would help to keep the support alive indefatigable Member who I am sure will find other in the future. ways, possibly through the Table Office, to pursue his This is not a radical suggestion. Many other countries concerns. pay tribute to their armed forces with a national holiday, If there are no further points of order, we come now including the United States, Canada, Russia, France to the ten-minute rule Bill, for which the hon. Member and Israel. Indeed, among the five countries spending for Devizes (Claire Perry) has been patiently waiting. the most on their military budgets, only Britain and China do not have a national holiday commemorating their service personnel—but at least in China soldiers get a half-day off on army day. With your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the House on a 10,000-mile trip to the southern hemisphere and consider Anzac day in New Zealand and Australia. As many Members know, I have the great good fortune to be married to a Kiwi, and it was his reminiscences of Anzac day—a national holiday in 797 Remembrance Day (Bank Holiday) 15 JUNE 2011 798

[Claire Perry] Welfare Reform Bill those countries on 25 April—that contributed to my [2ND ALLOCATED DAY] proposal today. Many young people from down under could tell us in detail about the brutal Gallipoli campaign Further consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public of the first world war; how many fought, died and were Bill Committee wounded; and how many and who fell from their school. Furthermore, many will have made a pilgrimage to the Clause 69 Dardanelles site. Do you think, Mr Speaker, that if we ENDING OF DISCRETIONARY PAYMENTS asked a similar cohort of British young people to name even one first world war battle, let alone the casualty 1.39 pm numbers, we would get a similar result? I think not. John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I beg Setting aside a national day of remembrance and to move amendment 53, page 52, line 21, leave out celebration would help us all with that collective memory. clause 69. I have suggested the Monday after Remembrance day as a bank holiday. I would equally be in favour of Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): With this having the holiday on Armistice day itself, but I am it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 39, aware that the British Legion has concerns about diluting page 52, line 22, leave out subsection (1) and insert— the long-standing tradition of the silence, and if the Bill ‘(1) Section 138(1)(b) of the Social Security Contributions and is taken forward I would wish to work with the British Benefits Act 1992 (discretionary payments out of Social Fund) Legion and other organisations to work out the best may be repealed, if the Secretary of State— day. However, one of these historically resonant dates (a) publishes a detailed proposal for a replacement would be appropriate. scheme, or schemes, based on wide consultation with It is not for me to propose an additional holiday, relevant stakeholders; although I know it would be popular in the country, (b) ensures that such a scheme, or schemes, will provide and I am aware that it would cause concerns for businesses. financial protection for applicants in an emergency or crisis, with the eligibility criteria for applicants However, there are clearly some anomalies in the current specified in regulations; distribution of bank holidays. This year we have had (c) demonstrates the feasibility of such a scheme, or one bank holiday in January, three in April and two in schemes, through a pilot or pathfinder process; and May, but there is only one more to look forward to—at (d) demonstrates how an independent appeals mechanism the end of August—before the Christmas break. Many will be implemented.’. people think that trading one of the bank holidays—one Amendment 40, page 52, line 24, leave out subsection (2) in May, it has been suggested—for a Remembrance day and insert— holiday in November would be a reasonable swap. Members on both sides of the House support this proposal, ‘(2) In consequence of the provision in subsection (1), the although my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire office of the social fund commissioner may be abolished.’. (Mr Gray) said that he would do so on the basis that the Amendment 54, page 128, line 28, leave out Schedule 8. holiday be called WoottonBassett day, which is a suggestion I am, of course, prepared to entertain—I am relaxed John McDonnell: Amendment 53 relates to the abolition about the title. of the social fund and addresses a number of the concerns that Members raised on Second Reading and The British people support the idea. In a recent in Committee. YouGov poll, Remembrance day, along with St George’s The Government propose to abolish key elements of day, was the favoured date for an additional holiday in the social fund—the community care grants and the Great Britain. Last week I spent the day with young crisis loans—and to replace them with support through men and women of the British Army, many of whom local authorities. The social fund, particularly the crisis were preparing to deploy to Afghanistan in the next few loan, is critically important to many Members in months. I was deeply moved by the spirit, dedication, representing their constituents. That is the case not determination and quiet courage of those young people. only in my constituency but across the country. These I would like the whole country to have an opportunity mechanisms support people in desperate need and at to pay tribute to them, their comrades, veterans of the key times in their lives, and they are safety nets when services and those who have fallen, to whom we owe so people are facing essential expenditure that they cannot much. I therefore commend the Bill to the House. meet. My concern is that many organisations have Question put and agreed to. made representations to the Government, Committee Ordered, members and Members of the House urging that the That Claire Perry, Andrew Rosindell, Bob Stewart, social fund should not be abolished without robust and Mr Julian Brazier, Kwasi Kwarteng, Mr James Gray, effective alternatives put in its place. The proposal Mr Michael McCann, Mr Dominic Raab, Chris Heaton- should certainly be fully explored and tested before any Harris, Charlie Elphicke, Dan Jarvis and John Glen change is made. present the Bill. Social funds have been critically important. The numbers Claire Perry accordingly presented the Bill. of recipients of social funds and of applications demonstrate their importance. In 2009-10, there were 640,000 Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on applications for community care grants, 3.64 million for Friday 21 October, and to be printed (Bill 203). crisis loans and 1.69 million for budgeting loans. Some 263,000 CCGs were awarded, 2.7 million crisis loans were awarded, and 1.2 million budgeting loans were awarded, so the expenditure was significant. They make 799 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 800 a significant impact on individuals’ lives and in tackling councillor and I know about the pressures on local poverty across the country. Some £139 million was authorities when they expend their resources. If there spent on CCGs, £109 million net was spent on crisis are no clear guidelines or statutory duties placed on the loans, and £482 million gross on budgeting loans. This authorities, elements of expenditure that the Government is therefore a large-scale activity that is vital to the most might have allocated with the best of intentions might vulnerable and poorest members of our society. Even at not be spent in the way that the Government would this level of expenditure, however, the Public Accounts want. Committee concluded, having investigated CCGs, that I am fearful that if people lose access to the scale of only 32% of legitimate demand was being met. emergency support they currently draw on, their alternative I am extremely pleased that the Department for Work will be to go to higher-cost lenders such as loan sharks, and Pensions is retaining budgeting loans and advance thereby falling into greater debt. Even in advance of the loans for alignment payments. However, I and many reforms, we have already had a number of pawnbrokers Members and voluntary organisations working in this opening up in the town centre in my area, with the local field are unclear about what will replace the crisis loans citizens advice bureau reporting increased evidence of and the CCGs. I am gravely concerned about the proposals the use of loans from loan sharks. A number of to transfer responsibility to local authorities, which will organisations have expressed their concern that having be expected to design their own schemes for emergency numerous different local schemes could mean that we support. Those responsibilities are being transferred at end up with—I do not like this phrase—a postcode a time when local authority budgets are being cut. My lottery of access to life’s necessities, as a result of the understanding is that the funding will not be ring-fenced. loans not being distributed coherently and consistently. In their consultation, the Government suggested that I am also concerned that local authorities seem not to local authorities could also meet some of the demands have been given any guidelines or directives about with payments in kind—food parcels and second-hand establishing an appeals mechanism. Unless an appeals furniture were mentioned as examples. I am also concerned mechanism is set up, claimants will not have the security that without clear guidance councils might be able of being able to challenge decisions made locally. unilaterally to introduce and force new conditions on I would therefore urge the Government not to abolish those applying for emergency support. or wind down the social fund without giving an absolutely I tabled the amendment because of the real danger clear commitment about what will replace it. If emergency that we will now be faced with numerous schemes being support is to be localised, we need strong, unambiguous developed by local authorities, and that vulnerable people and extremely clear statutory duties placed on local will lose this essential support. I am concerned that if authorities to support vulnerable people, and for those the funding to local authorities is not ring-fenced, it will duties to be attached specifically to such funding. I urge be diverted to other priorities. the Government to think again about ring-fencing, so Let me give the example of what happened to the that the money cannot be diverted away from the poor. playbuilder grant in my area. I chair the local play The social fund commissioner proposed that the association, which I also helped to set up. When the ring Government consider establishing national criteria for fence was lifted, the Government initially sought to the schemes to be drawn up by local authorities, to withdraw elements of the second year of the scheme. I ensure consistency in the use of local discretion. It am grateful that the Secretary of State for Education would still be possible to reflect local circumstances, but reinstated them and returned significant amounts to national parameters would be set on the use of that local authorities, which was a real breakthrough. However, discretion. I am also concerned that the devolution of because the money was not ring-fenced, much of it emergency support services might create high administrative unfortunately appears to have been diverted into other costs—this has been mentioned by a number of areas of council expenditure, rather than going to improve organisations, including Age UK and the Disability play for children. That is just one example, from the Alliance—which might divert funds away from provision most recent period, of funds that were not ring-fenced for the poorest. being allocated to local authorities and then spent for purposes other than those that the Government had George Hollingbery (Meon Valley) (Con): I am listening intended. The Minister has agreed that allocations will to the hon. Gentleman with interest. Would he like to be based on social fund spending, which will be regularly comment on the observation made in the evidence that reviewed and the data updated. However, my concern is we received on the Public Bill Committee that the that if money is not ring-fenced in the first stages, it will distribution of such loans nationally is very uneven in be creamed off in the early years to be spent elsewhere. any event, despite a national body administering them? On that basis, would there not be some merit in distributing Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): We in Scotland funds to local authorities on a needs basis? have had four years’ experience of the removal of ring- fencing, supposedly to free up local authorities. I would 1.45 pm be interested to hear my hon. Friend’s comments on our experience. Now that the ring fence has been removed, John McDonnell: I appreciate that argument, but it is difficult to track what is happening to funds such as there is a difference between having a national system the supporting people fund, which give people valuable and having a complete free-for-all at the local level. low-level support. There is a midway point, which would involve the Government setting clear criteria and guidelines, backed John McDonnell: I hope that my hon. Friend will up with statutory force, so that when the changes are forgive me: I forgot about the experience in Scotland. introduced locally, funds are not diverted but go to What she describes is a classic example of what could people who need them, and local authorities do not face happen. I am quite fearful, because I have been a high administrative costs. What I am searching for is 801 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 802

[John McDonnell] discussing this legislation, as well as the Government, to come forward rapidly with detailed proposals that have Government action to reach a compromise and achieve statutory backing, in order to assure our constituents a balance between national distribution and local and all those working in the field that we will have a distribution, thereby avoiding a free-for-all. system to provide emergency support to people who are poor and vulnerable, but not one in which local decision Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): I appreciate making risks diverting those resources away from where the hon. Gentleman’s generosity in giving way, but I they are needed. It is on that basis that I have tabled this would query what he is describing. Would it not go amendment for discussion. I hope that, as a result of against the ethos of the Localism Bill, which is about this debate, we will at least gain a clear understanding of trusting authorities with the responsibility to do what is how the Government are going to address these issues—and right for their areas, and trusting the electorate to keep address them fairly urgently—given that they are causing them in check so that they do just that? considerable concern. John McDonnell: I understand, and, coming from a Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): I local government background—both as a councillor congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and as a local government officer—I very much support and Harlington (John McDonnell) on the way in which the localist agenda of freeing up local authorities to do he has introduced this group of amendments. His as much as they can to reflect the direct wishes of the amendments and those tabled in my name cover much local electorate. However, we are talking about people the same ground. Like him, I am deeply concerned that in severe poverty, and one of the overall duties of the Government propose to remove the discretionary government at every level is to ensure that people in our element of the social fund without giving us a great deal communities are not put at risk as a result of that more clarity about how the poorest and most vulnerable poverty. Therefore, there is a danger in the localist will be protected, about the adequacy of the replacement agenda, which I support, of allowing a free-for-all. system, about the protection of vulnerable people without Without establishing national standards and monitoring, a local connection—a matter to which I shall return in a we could have a number of local authorities failing to moment—and about the lack of a proper system of fulfil their responsibilities as we would wish. Although I review. As my hon. Friend rightly said, the numbers agree with the hon. Gentleman that the local electorate involved are significant, with 640,000 applications for should hold those authorities to account, we have community care grants and 3.6 million applications for unfortunately had numerous examples—I speak as an crisis loans. We are not talking about a modest amount advocate of local government—of that mechanism for of money, and those figures represent a great deal of keeping local authorities in check not being effective, need. He also suggested that they represent only the tip particularly on the detail of administering such schemes. of the iceberg of need. Of course we accept that there I am sure that we can all cite examples of that on a cannot be unlimited capacity to meet need, and it is cross-party basis, no matter who has been in control. clear that, were more resources to be made available, I am not talking about just my individual concerns. more need would come out and be met. Virtually every organisation dealing with the poor in I want to pick up on a point that my hon. Friend this country has expressed its concerns about this element made in response to an intervention. Despite the numbers of the legislation. My local citizens advice bureau has of people who apply for and receive loans and grants provided me with numerous examples—which I will not under the discretionary grant, and the fact that when take the House through—of the benefits of both social local government takes on this responsibility it will be loans, particularly crisis loans, and community care accountable, in the spirit of localism, to its electors, we grants. I would like to take this opportunity to thank must recognise that the characteristics of people who Heather Brown, the director of the Hillingdon CAB, seek assistance from the social fund do not make them a and all her team for their hard work. They have emphasised cohort of people that is likely to influence local politicians the need to explore all the implications locally and on a significant scale. This will tie into comments that I nationally before the Government leap into a new system. will make in a moment about what we should do with Shelter and Crisis, the housing charities, have undertaken people with no local connection. their own assessments of the process. Crisis surveyed All the evidence that I and my hon. Friends have 250 of their housing advisers. Numerous Members across received from our law centres, citizens advice bureaux all parties work closely with Crisis, and we have the and other organisations shows that the claimants of greatest of respect for its work. That survey showed that discretionary social fund elements are very likely to be 69% of clients used crisis loans for rent in advance, with highly mobile people in a crisis that frequently severs 87% using them to help furnish their properties. In its their connections to the local community. They are not briefing, which many Members will have seen, Crisis likely to be over-represented among those on the electoral quotes one person as saying that unless we have a register, or to wield a significant amount of local clout. system that is at least as effective as the social fund, the They would not always need to do that; a good, responsive effect on efforts to get people to move into independent local authority will map and respond to their needs accommodation would be “catastrophic”. Anxieties have without it, but the reality is that, in a competition for been expressed across the board about the fact that we scarce resources, that will not always be true of all local have not yet had that assurance. authorities. I am concerned about the lack of analysis in the We are completing the stages of the Welfare Reform Government’s proposals of people’s needs. There is also Bill today, having been asked to make decisions on a a lack of detail on how the proposals will work. My number of important elements, which we discussed on worry is that poor and vulnerable people will be put at Monday and are debating today, without having been risk as a result. It therefore behoves us as a House in given a great deal of substance or detail about how 803 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 804 those elements will work. The Government called for most vulnerable…I would argue for a UK safety net underneath evidence on the discretionary element of the social fund it.”––[Official Report, Welfare Reform Public Bill Committee, in February, but the consultation did not close until we 24 March 2011; c. 82-3.] were in the middle of the Bill’s Committee stage. That Professor Kempson told the Committee, in respect of worries me. Yet again, the Government seem to be the role of local authorities: pushing ahead with their proposals even though we “Some will provide a better service than we have now”. have not had a proper opportunity to reflect on the breadth of views and opinions of people with experience I do not think that that is in doubt. There is excellent of and expertise in the subject. practice in local government. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington, I also came to the The Minister might care to report to the House on House after serving in local government and I am a what the responses to the consultation actually said. It great advocate of it. Professor Kempson said: would be nice if she could assure us that all the responses would be placed in the Library. I think I can guess, “Some will provide a better service than we have now; many will provide a worse service; and some, I fear, will provide almost however, that their overwhelming tone will be one of no service.” deep disquiet, and that they will be urging the Government to think again, which is consistent with the principles She also said: outlined by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and “As I read it, there will be no ring-fencing, and I cannot even Harlington. As he said, almost all the organisations see that there is any proposal as yet to build in any form of with expertise and specialist knowledge in the operation accountability by local authorities. That is the very least that is of the social fund have told the Government of their needed.”––[Official Report, Welfare Reform Public Bill Committee, 24 March 2011; c. 82-3.] worries. Let us take note of who they are. They include: Age UK; the Association of Directors of Adult Social We know that the social fund has many flaws and has Services; Barnardo’s; the Child Poverty Action Group; been subjected to scathing criticism from the Public Citizens Advice; Community Links; Crisis; Disability Accounts Committee, the National Audit Office and Alliance; Family Action; the Family Fund; the Family others. I completely accept that those criticisms need to Rights Group; Gingerbread; Homeless Link; the National be taken seriously. The issue before the House today, Housing Federation; Oxfam; Platform 51; the Prison however, is whether the Government’s proposal risks Reform Trust; Save the Children; Scope; and St Mungo’s. making things worse by entirely removing that essential I am sure that there are others. safety net without addressing the genuine concerns of Those organisations are the big society in action. In the present system. The Minister made it absolutely many cases, they provide complementary services to the clear to the Committee that social fund, and they are expressing their concerns about “there is no expectation that local authorities will replicate the the Government’s proposals and about their capacity to current scheme.”––[Official Report, Welfare Reform Public Bill deliver to the people who will need their services when Committee, 3 May 2011; c. 731.] the changes are introduced. If the Government are She is nodding at that. She made it clear that, when the serious, as I have always thought they were, about the discretionary social fund is removed, local authorities idea of the big society and about a partnership with will provide a service equivalent to the present one. She voluntary and community organisations, surely the first said that this was not devolution to local government, principle must be to listen to what those organisations but something fundamentally different. are saying. Let us take an example from that list. Oxfam Central to that is the fact that the Government do not has said: expect local authorities to manage loan schemes, as “The Social Fund provides vital support for people in times of happens now with the crisis loan scheme, and that as crisis. The government proposes to devolve much of this money loan repayments were topping up the available resource to local authorities, but without any statutory duty on them to provide an equivalent system of protection. This runs the risk of through the current crisis loans, the capacity to provide driving people to use high-cost lenders, reducing their chances of an equivalent level of service through emergency funding managing their debts successfully. This is particularly important is now severely restricted. The figure I was given was as Universal Credit constitutes a radical reform, and it is almost 84%, although the Minister told us in Committee that it certain that its introduction will suffer from teething troubles. was 50%—and I am happy to accept her correction. These are likely to cause significant need for emergency payments None the less, the cash sum as an annual figure starting like crisis loans, just as they are abolished. The Social Fund needs from now that will be devolved to local authorities does to play an important role in protecting people during this transition, not tell us much about the funding that will available for which further supports the need for a delay to the change.” the equivalent level of crisis service once the scheme The Committee also heard directly from people who gets under way because that 50% repayment will very know more about the social fund in all its strengths and quickly fundamentally erode the value of the service. As weaknesses—we know that there are some weaknesses we have heard, the likelihood is that it will drive people in the operation of the existing scheme—than anyone into the arms of the cowboy and high-interest lenders else. They included Sir Richard Tilt from the Social as well as into debt. Security Advisory Committee, who said: “Community care grants are the bit I am most concerned about—£141 million. By the time that you have dished that out to 2pm 100 plus local authorities, there will not be a great amount of money at local level, and I think, as it is not ring-fenced, it is likely The current proposals expect local authorities to to disappear into other things.” devise their own schemes for emergency support, but He also said: without ring-fencing or without specific accountability “My view on all this is that we have a UK social security attached to the funds. It is highly likely, as we know, that system and that, for the past 25 years, the discretionary social some or all of the funds can be diverted into other local fund has been the ultimate, final safety net for the poorest and priorities and the safety net would disappear. 805 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 806

The Government also envisage local schemes that George Hollingbery: I do not suggest for a moment will make use of the provision of other cash support to that what I said should be a prescription nationwide. I assist people in need, as my hon. Friend the Member for said simply that it is easy to imagine an entrepreneurial Hayes and Harlington said, emphasising the potential solution that used the social fund to provide services use of credit unions, charitable support, recycled furniture locally that were administered by local councils but did outlets and food banks. Setting aside whether that is not involve money changing hands. really the kind of service that we want to operate, it has to be accepted—this is central to our thinking—that in Ms Buck: I will do a deal with the hon. Gentleman. If many cases, although not all, when people are in need he supports our amendment, I will accept his point. of emergency assistance, money is the best way of There is some truth in what he says: there is some helping them to purchase the goods that they are likely excellent practice out there and plenty of innovation in to need. the local government sector, but it is not consistent across the piece. The amendment effectively says, “Do That is very much in the spirit of empowerment, not abolish the discretionary social fund without piloting which we often hear the Government talk about in or without allowing a proper ability for local authorities other respects. When people are at a crisis point in their across the piece to demonstrate that they have the lives and turn up to ask for assistance—perhaps fleeing capacity to do what needs to be done”. The hon. domestic violence and needing to set up a new home—I Gentleman might well have enough confidence in that, fail to see how it empowers them when the only thing but it cannot be guaranteed. At the moment, there is available is a second-hand recycled white goods store absolutely no assurance that a consistent level of innovation, that may or may not have the form of assistance that expertise and commitment is available in some, let alone they need. Whether or not it will be good value for most local authorities. money is another point. We all know that second-hand and recycled goods are of less value than new ones. John McDonnell: In my constituency we have done There are all kinds of practical issues to consider. just that. A furniture fund has been set up by a voluntary organisation that is partly contracted by different agencies, Sheila Gilmore: Is it not also the case that many of but it has taken us 10 years to get to that. Now, because the arrangements for people to purchase second-hand of people’s change in circumstances as a result of loss furniture are increasingly set up as social enterprises, of benefits, we are setting up an arrangement for food which are intended to recoup money and make a working parcels, which are being distributed by religious profit to go back into the business, so they will charge organisations. It is, however, extremely difficult, and it people, albeit less than for new goods, as otherwise their takes a long time to set this sort of thing up. My anxiety enterprise will not work. In any event, if this were going is that in the rush to legislate on this matter, none of the to be free, it would have to be heavily subsidised by preparatory work has been done and there are considerable someone. costs in setting these things up, particularly in the early years. Ms Buck: My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The Government’s mindset is an old-fashioned one. Ms Buck: That is an excellent point. As we have said There is an excellent case for making better use of so many times in debating this Bill, one does not necessarily recycled goods as a commercial or social enterprise disagree with some elements in principle—localism and facility, but there is also a strong empowerment argument the involvement of local government in shaping the for letting individuals make their own choices with response to local needs, for example—but these local cash at their disposal to meet their needs appropriately. projects take a long time and require investment to set As my hon. Friend rightly says, in many cases, the up and they tend to come and go. In north Paddington, vision we used to have of a charitable sector simply one of the most deprived communities in the country, opening a warehouse into which people can go to two credit unions were set up over the last 15 years—with choose whatever donated goods might be available no regeneration funding in both cases—but they have both longer applies. collapsed. I do not want some of our most desperate and vulnerable people to be forced into reliance on a set George Hollingbery: I would counterpoint that on the of services that come and go, that might not be available basis that it is entirely possible to imagine a financial and that might well collapse. I think credit unions are arrangement between the charity and the local council marvellous; I would like to see them flourish in all parts in which the council uses the funds provided for the of the country, but they are much more vulnerable than purpose to future-buy services from the charity, giving people sometimes allow. people free access under certain circumstances to the John McDonnell: Many of us have been through the products provided. There are many different ways to same exercise that my hon. Friend described to establish skin this cat; I can see these arrangements working credit unions, so the last thing we need at the moment is perfectly adequately. anything that destabilises our local credit unions. Loading this sort of responsibility on to them could undermine Ms Buck: The problem is that once we start creating a not only individual credit unions, but the whole sector. necessity for such an arrangement to be run at every single local authority, we will also create the potential Ms Buck: That is absolutely right. We need to carry for a mismatch between the goods that people need, the on growing the local expertise and the local voluntary goods that are available, the charities providing those and community organisations, including credit unions, services and the area in which they are available. That which need to come up with innovative and practical also risks setting up a completely bureaucratic system in responses to help deal with our social problems. However, every single local authority to do what the current they are not a replacement, but a complement, and they discretionary social fund does. have to be approached with a great deal of care. 807 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 808

Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I commend credit The Minister tells us that there is an expectation that unions to all Members for the work they do, but for there will be some form of review process, but the those in financial difficulties, the crisis is already there current review process is national and now every local and unless someone is already in a credit union, they authority will be expected to set up its own, leading to cannot borrow from it. With respect, I do not believe huge complications with differences in approach and that credit unions are an option. the structure and bureaucracy of setting up a process in every local authority to determine how initial decisions Ms Buck: That is absolutely right. The Government will be reviewed and appealed against. I know that that mention credit unions as part of the package of alternatives causes a great deal of alarm in the advice sector. that they want to see picking up the slack. They may Let me return to the vexed concern about local have a role for some people, but the hon. Gentleman is connection. Sample work on discretionary fund cases right that they are not an emergency response. As I said was carried out by the Department last year, which in my opening remarks, precisely because a disproportionate considered a basket of 500 different cases, and 20% of number of the individuals who need crisis intervention those cases involved people who were homeless. Some do not have a local connection or a stable household 20% and more of the applicants in such cases—the background, they are the ones who will not be in a amount varied between different parts of the country—had credit union. They are disproportionately unlikely to be no single connection with any individual local authority. in a credit union or to have the scope to be able to join That is my single biggest concern about the Government’s one. That is precisely why the social workers—expected approach to this agenda. to be a part, although admittedly not the entirety, of the One example, which was highlighted in the media last gatekeeping process for the replacement of the discretionary week, is the case of victims of domestic violence. A social fund—are so concerned. Although they will not group of the women’s charities have written to the be alone, they will be very much on the front line of Minister for Women and Equalities, warning that some gatekeeping for this dramatically reduced and very different councils will not be financially able or willing to help type of service, which is patchy and might be flourishing women escape violent partners on the grounds of the in some cases and not in others. As I said in Committee, provisions in this part of the legislation. They believe the consortium of community care stated a few months that there will be an increased postcode lottery of ago that social workers are anxious about having to provision that does not reflect the Government’s previous deliver the social fund, knowing that applications claim that tackling domestic violence is a priority and for community care grants are already turned down in they fear that councils could impose a local connection 60% of cases. They say that their role as advocates test that could disadvantage women fleeing domestic and supporters for people in need through a crisis violence who are often, almost by definition, forced to in their lives is dangerously undermined by the new move into another local authority area. They say that financial gatekeeping role that they will be asked to many women fleeing the home have to leave everything take on. behind, including household furnishings and essential In evidence to the Committee, Councillor Steve Reed, items, such as cookers, that most families take for speaking on behalf of the London Councils and the granted to rebuild their lives in a new home. They Local Government Association, said that local authorities quoted a mother from Croydon, south London, who have expressed an in-principle willingness to be part of left her abusive partner in 2003 and said that she had this process. I understand why he would do that. He only been able to escape a life of domestic violence also told the Committee that he was worried that the thanks to a £700 grant that helped her to rebuild her localisation of the discretionary social fund should be life. The chief executive of Women’s Aid said: fully funded and that it should cover all the costs, “The social fund is a vital resource for victims attempting to including the administration costs, which, for the community rebuild their lives after domestic abuse and, if it is not available, care grant alone, were £19 million in 2008-09. As we victims may be forced to return to their abusers.” have drawn out in the debate over the past hour, the The director of Refuge added that if the discretionary likelihood is that the administrative process for local social fund is abolished, there is a risk that government and the gatekeeping, which will not simply be about deciding whether to give a crisis loan or “more women will be forced to delay their escape from their partner.” community care grant but whether to find people alternative levels of support, are likely to put an increased financial burden on local authorities. 2.15 pm Some Government Members on the Committee argued We flagged up other groups in Committee that deserve that social workers and others will be able to provide to be mentioned again, such as those that deal with the more intensive, personalised intervention for people in problems for ex-prisoners. About 66,000 people leave crisis, helping to end a cycle of repeated loan applications, prison every year, a third without accommodation. The but that is likely to make the situation worse. If the Prison Reform Trust has lobbied me and others on its 3.64 million crisis loan applicants or 640,000 applications concerns about the loss of the discretionary social fund for community care grants have to be funnelled through and has flagged up the fact that ex-prisoners have a a more intensive and personal level of intervention, particularly strong need for early financial assistance to who will do that work? Where are the social workers prevent debt, because once they are in debt, there is a and the available time in local government to improve grave danger that that will lead to a risk of reoffending, on this? The answer is that they will not be there. Local as the two are heavily correlated. authorities are retrenching and they are on the back I worry that local authorities, which are subject to foot financially, and the likelihood is that they will have political pressures from their resident populations and a smaller pot of money as they act as gatekeepers for an forced into painful choices that, in some cases, involve even wider group of individuals. retrenching youth services, libraries and so on, are 809 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 810 hardly likely when allocating a non-ring-fenced grant to care grant with national payments on account, including make ex-offenders, for example, a priority. That is human advances and alignment payments, and with local authority nature. It is inevitable that some groups will be less of a -delivered local assistance. The bulk of the comments of priority than others and ex-offenders are likely to be a the hon. Members for Hayes and Harlington (John particularly at-risk group in that context. If we take McDonnell) and for Westminster North (Ms Buck) each local authority on its own merits, we can understand were about crisis loans, half of which are alignment the political reality of that position, but it will come payments, which will continue to be paid at national back and bite local communities and the Government level through payments on account. It is important that many times over if those individuals are not assisted hon. Members are aware that to all intents and purposes and cannot make a stable life for themselves after they people will still have access to that money on a national leave prison. basis. I hope that will reassure hon. Members regarding Local authorities such as mine and such as those in a number of the issues raised. seaside communities, in particular, have an incredibly I do not think that the status quo is an option high population turnover. In my constituency, 30% of because of the level of abuse in the system at the those on the electoral register alone move address every moment. First, the number of crisis loans has tripled single year. Those individuals do not have a local connection since 2006, but we do not believe that that increase and there will be a real risk that a mechanism will be created reflects an underlying increase in genuine need as a to determine who does and who does not have a local result of the recession or anything else. We have looked connection. Where, then, will those individuals go? in detail at the individuals who are causing that increase When the Committee took evidence, the Secretary of in demand and our analysis has shown that it is being State said that there would be a “moral duty” on local driven by young single people on jobseeker’s allowance, councils. I repeat what I said in Committee: I do not many of whom are still living at home. We should be know what a moral duty means. We all believe that local looking at what is driving that demand and asking authorities have moral obligations and we have a moral whether the money is getting through to the sort of obligation to respond to homelessness, to children in vulnerable people about whom the hon. Member for need and to the care needs of our elderly people, but in Hayes and Harlington is rightly concerned. practice, without a legislative framework, people will not necessarily assume that duty if they have grounds to Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): What is the Minister believe, for example, that the person approaching them going to do to ensure that the operation of the social at a time of crisis is not someone whom that specific fund across the devolved regions does not set a hierarchy local authority has a duty to assist. Although I welcome of standards and differences that are so far apart that the principle of a moral duty, I want to see a legislative people come to realise that the social fund operates very framework. I want to see it piloted so that local authorities differently in certain parts of the UK? That would have the opportunity to draw up a code of practice that create hardship for many vulnerable people. can be tested and shown to work so that when people Maria Miller: The national payments on account will do not have a specific local connection they will be dealt be dealt with on a national basis in the same way in any with and not turned away. part of the country and the regulated part of the social For all those reasons, and for the reasons so well fund will continue as it is. Really, the hon. Gentleman is expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes talking about how local assistance will be dealt with and Harlington, I shall press amendment 39 to a vote. and I am sure that he, like all hon. Members, will know There might be scope for a localised response to some that local authorities want to do their best by the of these needs, but we are a long way from having vulnerable citizens we are talking about. That is certainly anything like the structures, framework and legislation my experience of most, if not all, local authorities. to enable individual needs to be accommodated, including with reviews and when the vexed question of local Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): Will the Minister connection is not resolved. I hope that the House will give way on that second point? take the opportunity to say that we should not proceed until we have seen this working in practice and dealt Maria Miller: Will the hon. Lady forgive me if I make with any of the problems that will undoubtedly arise. a little more progress? As I have said, we really need to move through this quite quickly. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work Another reason why the status quo is not an option and Pensions (Maria Miller): I know that the right hon. was highlighted only this week when community care Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) is keen for us grants were referenced in a “Dispatches” programme to make progress today and was somewhat concerned which showed that an ex-offender who had received a that we did not complete consideration of all elements community care grant for resettlement had spent the on Monday. I will try to address all the issues that I am money on drugs. We should all be concerned about the able to address in a speedy manner so that we can lack of checking on how money is used and we should consider things fully. look at how to improve the system. Right hon. and hon. Members who have been listening The hon. Member for Westminster North took a to the debate thus far will already have a flavour of the great deal of pain to talk about people who claim crisis complexity of the current scheme. Unfortunately, the loans having some degree of mobility and disengagement scheme is open to widespread abuse, and some of that is from the democratic system. I am not sure what evidence driven by the remoteness of the administration of these she has to support those assumptions, but we do not elements of the discretionary social fund. Just so that have that evidence to hand. The three elements of the hon. Members are absolutely clear, we are talking about discretionary scheme that I have talked about have very replacing budget loans, crisis loans and the community different and distinct client groups. 811 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 812

Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) Crisis loans for alignment purposes and budgeting (Lab): May I draw the Minister’s attention to one group loans will be replaced by new national provision. As I of people who might fall into that category? Victims of have said, that accounts for half of all current crisis domestic violence might not be on the electoral register loan applications. That provision will be delivered nationally because they are forced out of one area and into another by the Department for Work and Pensions. The ending and they therefore do not have the democratic accountability of the discretionary social fund and the implementation that comes through the ballot box. of replacement schemes, both nationally through payments on account and locally by local authorities and the Maria Miller: The hon. Lady is obviously a mind devolved Administrations, is the best way to approach reader, because I was just about to talk about whether the reform. Amendments 53 and 54 would prevent the changes we are discussing will be a problem for those reforms from taking place and would leave us victims of domestic violence—a group whom we all with an out-of-date and inefficient discretionary social want to ensure get that support and are able to move to fund scheme which would soon be unworkable with the a place of safety, as is absolutely right. We do not introduction of the wider benefit reform we have already believe that the new localised service will be a barrier to outlined. people in genuine need, particularly victims of domestic violence. It will provide an opportunity for more joined-up services on the ground while continuing to give individuals 2.30 pm in that situation access to national payments on account Amendments 39 and 40 would impose criteria set by through advances or alignment payments. The hon. central Government on arrangements to replace the Lady will be aware that under the current scheme discretionary social fund if it were abolished. Some of victims of domestic violence must have fled the family the requirements in amendment 39 are activities that we home to qualify for support to set up home from the are already undertaking in our work on the replacement discretionary social fund. of the discretionary social fund. Other elements in the A third and very important reason why keeping the amendment would not be helpful to what the reform of status quo is not a sensible option is the need to align the social fund is trying to achieve. As I said, in some support with the wider changes that are happening in ways the amendment misses the point of the reform, the welfare system. To continue running the current which is that local authorities are better placed to administratively burdensome system is no longer financially understand the needs of their local communities and to sustainable. Community care grants and crisis loans for make sure that the money is getting through to the right general living expenses will be replaced by locally-based people for the right activities. support, which will be the responsibility of local authorities in England and the devolved Administrations in Scotland Ms Buck: Why does the Minister think that almost and Wales. That will deliver on the coalition’s commitment every specialist organisation, voluntary group and charity to implement the Calman commission’s recommendations in the field thinks that that is a problem? Is it because and will tie in with the wider Government agenda on they do not understand it? localism, as has been mentioned. Local authorities are better placed to understand the issues that people in Maria Miller: The hon. Lady will know that we have their area face and to dovetail existing and needed had a call for evidence, and we will be considering the services. Different areas face different issues and local many different views of the organisations she mentions. authorities will be free to come up with the sort of We will of course want to work with those organisations innovative ideas that will address these issues and make to make sure that our policies work well. I remember sure that the money that is available is targeted at the some confusion in Committee about whether we were right purposes so that we move away from a situation talking about the social fund or the discretionary social that allows the sort of abuse I have mentioned. fund, so perhaps we need to make sure that people really understand our policy. Empowering local Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): We learned in organisations at local level—the sorts of organisations Committee that although council tax is delegated to that the hon. Lady named—to work with vulnerable local authorities, investigations of fraud will be carried groups in the individual community will, I think, be out nationally by the single fraud investigation service. welcomed by many organisations on the ground. The Minister has talked about abuse. In the case of the devolved social fund, where there is a worry about fraud Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): Does my hon. Friend will it be investigated by the local authority or by the share my slight puzzlement that the left seems to have single fraud investigation service? abandoned the rich tradition of mutuality and self-help Maria Miller: Local authorities will be free to consider that was the foundation of the Labour movement? I am whether they need to set up their own service locally or not hearing very much about that from the Opposition. use the local government ombudsman. It really is for local authorities to look at the most effective way of Maria Miller: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. dealing with levels of fraud or with any dissatisfaction I too was thinking about some of the speeches earlier with the way in which they are delivering services. The this week; responsibility and empowering people are amendments do not really grasp the premise behind the vital. Government’s proposals. We want to move to a situation Amendment 39 misses the point when it proposes a in which local authorities are looking at the gaps in pilot scheme to determine the feasibility of whatever their services locally and are able to use the funding that scheme would replace the discretionary social fund. It is forthcoming as a result of these changes to fill those would be impossible to run a pilot scheme for each local gaps and pull together the sort of service that is required authority. We could run only a single pilot scheme, by vulnerable groups such as those we have been discussing. which would lead to our stifling any ideas local authorities 813 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 814

[Maria Miller] well-considered replacements for the discretionary social fund, and will make sure that we are supporting more might have about how to improve their local area. I effectively than is currently the case the vulnerable hope that my experience of local authorities is no individuals we have discussed today. With those different from that of the hon. Member for Westminster reassurances, I hope Members feel it appropriate to North. They really understand their responsibilities to withdraw their amendments, and we can press forward the most vulnerable groups in society and rather than with the Bill. deprioritising them, which is the inference from her comments, they are very much a priority. Those groups Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab): As we have may not have a strong voice at the ballot box, but most heard, the discretionary social fund currently consists councillors I meet are very motivated about getting the of budgeting loans for managed expenditure, crisis loans right support to them. for emergencies and community care grants for essential household items such as cookers and beds for certain John McDonnell: I do not want to get drawn into groups—for example, vulnerable people who are moving discussions about blue Labour, and I understand the into new accommodation. The provision is national hon. Lady’s anxiety about almost flying against the and acts as a safety net for benefit recipients facing localism agenda, but there is a mid-way point. Even if essential expenditure they cannot meet. the Government are not looking at laying down criteria It bears repeating that in 2009-10, there were 640,000 or guidelines, is there no thought that central Government applications for community care grants and 3.64 million could convene local authorities to explore best practice applications for crisis loans. That demonstrates the before the proposals are implemented? scale of the activity we are asking local authorities to take on. It is no small task, but it is absolutely vital to Maria Miller: There have already been conversations the financial well-being of many of the poorest and with local government, and as I think Opposition Front most vulnerable people in our society. Although an Benchers hinted at, there was a broad welcome for the alignment scheme will be introduced—in effect, allowing proposals. We shall certainly be working with local advance payment of benefit—I have seen from my authorities to make sure that what happens is exactly previous experience how important it is that people can what the hon. Gentleman was talking about; the spread claim a community care grant, which does not have to of best practice will be critical. be paid back, for their living expenses. It does not put The amendment seems to have taken no notice of the people on the lowest possible income into debt. Without national provision of payments on account that DWP that, people will be driven into the arms of the high-cost will provide under clause 98. Budgeting advances—the lenders, which will reduce their chances of managing replacement scheme for social fund budgeting loans—will their debts successfully. That will put more strain on be very similar to budgeting loans, which have been other services—for example, the health service—due to hugely successful and largely self-financing. Budgeting the increase of stress and depression caused by the cycle advances will be targeted at those who are least likely to of low income and debt. be able to access mainstream lending. That will help to Proposals were outlined in 2011 to transfer to local ensure that vulnerable people are not driven to illegal authorities, with guidance, the funds currently used, but lenders, which is rightly of concern to Opposition Members. there will be no new statutory duty for how the money Short-term advances—the replacement scheme for is to be used. It will not be ring-fenced. Local authorities interim payments and crisis loan alignment—will ensure have numerous calls on their expenditure at present, that people who face financial need as a result of and without ring-fencing we cannot guarantee that the problems with their benefit claims will, if they are provision will go to those who are most in need. I eligible, be able to access financial assistance through envisage a number of different policies and that some interest-free advances of their benefit. The grounds for vulnerable people will lose the right to apply for emergency eligibility will be set out clearly in regulations. support. They may be trapped between two local authorities with differing policies. Another element of the amendment is a requirement for the Secretary of State to publish a proposal for a Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): My hon. Friend replacement scheme, based on wide consultation with talks about the involvement of local authorities. Several stakeholders. We are already taking that approach in of my constituents have contacted me about a situation our discussions about replacement schemes. We will that arose when the computer system in Sefton council’s soon publish our response document to our call for housing office was down for six weeks. The staff advised evidence, which was based on wide consultation with my constituents to get crisis loans until the problem was lobby groups and local authorities. There will be a large fixed. I cannot understand how the Government’s proposals amount of information and evidence for Members to will make it possible for those staff to provide any kind consider. of crisis support. Does my hon. Friend agree? The amendment requires local authorities to set up an independent appeals mechanism, but as I have already Yvonne Fovargue: I do. It is difficult for local authorities said, local authorities will be able to set up an internal to provide a consistent service. As we have heard, people review mechanism if they think it appropriate. Furthermore, who are fleeing domestic violence will have an especially the local government ombudsman offers a fair and difficult time as they move from one local authority to impartial service for people who are dissatisfied with a another overnight. How will they be treated? decision made by their local authority. Maria Miller: I apologise for intervening on the hon. In conclusion, the national scheme of payments on Lady, but may I clarify that people will be able to access account and the local provision, as delivered by local that sort of money through payments on account, as I authorities and the devolved Administrations, will provide outlined? 815 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 816

Yvonne Fovargue: I shall return to the issue of domestic I regret the loss of the extremely useful digest published violence. Who will be the responsible authority? If by the social fund commissioner which gave an overview people move overnight to interim accommodation, whose of appeals and reviews. That was an invaluable tool for policies will prevail? There are problems at the moment advisers. It assisted them to help their clients to obtain with local authorities taking responsibility. I know of their rights consistently. Such consistency is extremely situations in which one local authority says, “These important. Without a universal scheme, it will be lost, people can’t come back to us,” and the other says, “We so vulnerable claimants will be left with a patchy and don’t want to accept them.” inconsistent service. People might have a right of appeal or independent review but, depending on local authorities’ Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): My hon. policies, one side of the street could well get a cash Friend makes an important point. This is a serious and grant while the other side would be given advice about acute problem in London. Given that the boroughs are which charity to approach. In the context of homelessness, geographically small, people who move at a time of I have seen that one local authority’s interpretation of crisis are not aware of what borough they are moving to “advice and assistance” can be very different from that and from, and the situation can be disastrous for their of the local authority that gives people a list of private future housing options. Central Government direction landlords. is needed, and there must be complete ring-fencing and a statutory requirement on each local authority because 2.45 pm otherwise the most vulnerable will be short-changed as a result of demands for expenditure—albeit understandable Jeremy Corbyn: I am glad that my hon. Friend brings demands—in other areas of a local authority. up the issue of private landlords because the majority of the people about whom we are talking—certainly in Yvonne Fovargue: I completely agree. The Government’s London, but possibly in the rest of the country—tend approach seems to be predicated on a view that local to live in private rented accommodation, which is often management will more accurately assess local people’s unregistered and usually incredibly energy-inefficient, needs and use a range of local provision and services to certainly compared with council and housing association support people in need, but that argument is flawed. accommodation and most owner-occupied properties. We have heard mention of credit unions and charitable These people therefore face higher energy costs and support, as well as recycled furniture outlets and food their permanency of accommodation is more vulnerable. banks. However, let me cite the example of an individual We need to take account of the fact that we will be whose washing machine or cooker breaks down. They throwing people into the most vulnerable housing sector might be given a recycled product, but such goods are of all those available. often much less energy-efficient than new goods, so that person will face higher fuel costs and will have no Yvonne Fovargue: I agree. This is no way to treat choice but to pay them with more of their low income. vulnerable individuals who are trying to obtain life’s Such goods also lack a guarantee and have questionable necessities. I urge hon. Members not to legislate for the reliability, so the approach might well be a false economy. Government’s proposals before a robust, effective and There is also a question of whether charities will be consistent alternative, with a proper right of appeal, has able to sustain continuing demand and, importantly, of been fully explored. whether the dignity of the individual will be adequately Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): One of the Bill’s underlying protected. I have heard many people—young and old—say, principles is that it focuses resources on those who are “I am not asking for charity. I do not want charity.” I the most vulnerable and in need. It is also designed to fear that people will be deterred from applying to any reduce complexity and to make the delivery of welfare scheme under which they will be referred to a charity support more effective and efficient. Clause 69 satisfies and that they will therefore be forced into the hands of those requirements. Localising the delivery of the social the high-cost lenders and credit companies. fund will clearly promote a more joined-up delivery of Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): I services and support. might have misunderstood the hon. Lady, but is she Oliver Heald: Does my hon. Friend share my concern really criticising the charities that provide such services? about the remarks made by the hon. Member for Makerfield For example, councils for voluntary service provide (Yvonne Fovargue), who seemed to suggest that benefit excellent second-hand furniture facilities. These charities claimants should be entitled as of right to buy all their are not undignified, but offer an extremely worthwhile furniture as new, rather than resorting to sensible and service through which they provide good quality goods reasonably costed alternatives? What person who starts at reasonable prices. a new home does not have to buy a little bit of second-hand Yvonne Fovargue: I absolutely accept that, but some furniture? people do not want to be forced to use such charities as Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We their only course of action. Vulnerable people on low are talking about taxpayers’ money, so we have to be incomes have a great sense of pride when claiming resourceful. benefit. I absolutely believe that forcing individuals into the arms of charity will mean that they will instead go I do not believe that Labour amendments 39 and to high-cost lenders. 40 would make the delivery of the social fund more effective, and nor would they further support applicants Oliver Heald rose— and people in need. They would put additional bureaucratic burdens on the Government and risk delaying the Yvonne Fovargue: I will not give way. I want to move implementation of the reforms. Amendments 53 and 54, on to the lack of an appeals process. which were tabled by the hon. Member for Hayes and 817 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 818

[Priti Patel] Jim Shannon: I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She clearly has cause to represent people in relation to Harlington (John McDonnell), would dogmatically block social fund issues and has a good understanding of the change by retaining the existing top-down system that is financial crisis they face. nowhere near as effective as we want it to be. Many of the people who come to me in my office The hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck) have health problems. If they are unable to work, possibly talked about several of the anomalies and dysfunctional because of an injury at work or an accident at home, problems in the social fund, as well as the National they are left facing a financial crisis. Intimidation is not Audit Office’s criticism. Members of the Public Bill rife in Northern Ireland and nowhere else; it happens in Committee know that the number of crisis loan applications other parts of the United Kingdom as well, and there has soared since 2006 from 1 million to 2.7 million, are occasions when someone has to leave home quickly, while more than 17,000 people have received crisis loans and they face financial crisis. Most of those who come in the past 12 months. Given that such a significant to me are single people, maybe a single parent with a number of people require multiple crisis loans, delivering young child, or sometimes they are people coming out the social fund locally will help to signpost them to of care or out of prison, or people who have experienced support mechanisms, rather than encouraging the top-down family break-ups. approach that has been in place thus far. Many of the The hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) arguments put forward by Labour Members have been described the situation well, and I share her experiences flawed and inaccurate, and I think that the amendments as a representative. Those people are under great financial would be counter-productive to the Bill’s objectives. pressure and are worried about where they are going to go. They look for alternatives to borrowing money. Ms Buck rose— Sometimes, as a result of their inability to pay back their loans on time, they end up in hospital. Loan Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. I sharks are probably the only people willing to lend them do not think that the hon. Member for Witham (Priti money but at an extortionate rate, which puts them Patel) is giving way; she has concluded her remarks. under great pressure. I am sure other hon. Members have seen that. Jim Shannon: I am not against the principle of welfare reform, but I am against how it affects those people who Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Is my colleague, like regularly come to see me. Not a week passes in the me, at a loss to understand how some hon. Members offices that I look after in which we do not see people who are prepared to commend the social fund measures who need crisis loans, and we hear from people who are are the same people who, in relation to parliamentary under financial pressure all the time. With respect, I expenses, argue for the operational principles of clarity, sometimes wonder whether some hon. Members have predictability, responsiveness, consistency and the right ever seen a social fund or crisis loan form. Do they to query or appeal? They demand those operational know what it is like to be in financial crisis and under principles where it affects themselves, but they are prepared pressure? to mangle them where they affect their most marginal I support the amendments for a number of reasons, constituents when it comes to the social fund. and I hope they will be put to the vote. What happens in the House today will be sent to the Northern Ireland Jim Shannon: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his Assembly for its endorsement. On the principle of parity passion and his commitment. I would find it difficult to with the rest of the United Kingdom, I expect the argue against those points. I should like to hear from Northern Ireland Assembly to endorse the decision of the Minister what measures the Government intend to the House. The measure will then become the law for put in place to ensure that the people whom I have Northern Ireland as well. So if we feel concerned about described—the single people facing financial problems it, we must oppose it here today. That is what the people or those experiencing health problems, marital break-ups I represent tell me. or intimidation, who clearly have problems at home—will Most of us are probably affluent enough to be able to fit into the system. I do not see that they will. I see borrow money from the bank if we are under financial extreme difficulties for them in future. pressure, but the people who come to me in my office The hon. Lady spoke about those managing debt. seeking crisis loans through the social fund cannot do Not everybody has the ability to manage their financial that. They do not have the option of the credit union circumstances. We meet people in my office who either, because of the credit union methodology. I fully unfortunately fit into that category. We try to advise support credit unions. Everyone on the Opposition them or send them to someone who can give them Benches who has a particular knowledge of credit unions advice and help, but in many cases they are unable to would support them 100%, as we have in the past, but manage their financial circumstances. The crisis loan they are not an option for people in financial crisis, as enables them to borrow and get out of the crisis that the Government have suggested. they face, and agreeing a direct debit helps them to manage their money. Naomi Long: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that For those who come to me in financial crisis, the part of the difficulty is that in circumstances where crisis loan is their only way out. I would love to be the people’s finances are very stretched and they are very Northern bank or the Ulster bank and be able to lend vulnerable, the crisis loan system stands between them all those people money personally, but unfortunately and lenders with extortionate interest rates and loan my resources do not go that far and it is not my sharks, which can impact not only on their financial responsibility to do that singly and individually. That is welfare, but on their health and well-being more generally? the responsibility of Government. 819 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 820

Bill Esterson: The hon. Gentleman makes a strong 3pm case for his concerns about the loan system. What At present, clear guidance operates for decision makers, worries me, reading the clause, are the references to with clear processes in place if the individual is unhappy discretion and appropriate decisions by the Treasury and wishes to challenge a decision, but the Government’s about what does or does not constitute grounds for proposals will shift those responsibilities to local authorities payment on account. A constituent who came to me and are deeply concerning on a number of levels. There was denied employment support allowance and was is little reassurance that an adequate service will be told that he was fit for work. When he went to the provided or that the quality of service and the appeals jobcentre, he did not qualify. That person needed three process will not differ greatly across the country from separate crisis loans. The point about managing debt is council to council. The Government say that local well made. The issue of appropriateness will cause huge authorities will be open to scrutiny at local level, and to problems. a degree that is true, but I simply do not feel confident that vulnerable and excluded groups, such as women Jim Shannon: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his fleeing domestic violence, will be able to make their comments. Many Members in all parts of the House voices heard in those circumstances. know how the system works and the importance of a crisis loan system operating through the social fund. As I indicated when I intervened on the Minister, those women are often not on the electoral register and My final point relates to the appeals system. The cannot cast a vote, so at the most basic level there is a proposed changes will do away with the independent lack of democratic accountability. I am sure we all hope appeals system or at least make it unnecessary. I have that local councillors and councils would take due fought a number of appeals for people who had applied notice of those groups regardless, but the realities of life for crisis loans through the social fund. Having the mean that if those women are unable to vote, as is the appeals system in place is critical. If they are turned case for the vast majority who are forced to move to a down the first time, it may be because they provided the women’s refuge, they are denied an important opportunity wrong information, or because all the necessary information to affect local decision making. was not available. An appeals system allows a review to take place. It is crucial that the independent appeals Skilled and experienced professionals in the Department system is retained. for Work and Pensions currently administer the The system of crisis loans through the social fund is a discretionary social fund, but it is not clear who will crucial aspect of life in Britain today for the people who take on that role within local authorities. That will come to my office and for those I meet. It gives people present a significant capacity problem for local authorities hope and an opportunity to get out of sometimes dire that are already stretched in the current financial climate. financial circumstances. The Government, the House The Government have not set out minimum standards and we as elected representatives have a duty to make and levels of service that they expect councils to adhere sure that the social fund and the crisis loan are retained. to. How will individuals access the replaced discretionary social fund, and where? What time scales can they Bridget Phillipson: I am grateful for the opportunity expect for decisions? We might end up with significant to speak to this important group of amendments concerning variation between councils, whereas at present we have the discretionary social fund, particularly amendment 39, a clear national scheme. I do not believe that we have which calls on the Government to bring forward detailed had clarity from Ministers on local eligibility. proposals for the replacement scheme. Discretionary social fund payments, such as crisis Ian Paisley: The point that the hon. Lady is making is loans and community care grants, provide an essential critically important. A local authority might lay down a safety net for some of the most vulnerable people in our policy on this matter that is very good, but if another communities who, at times of extreme hardship or authority then does something slightly different that disadvantage, need financial support. One such group I appears to be better, automatically all the good work wish to talk about in detail are women fleeing domestic that the first local authority has done will be seen as of violence who, through no fault of their own, are forced no use as it will be held to another standard. We must out of their own homes and have to seek shelter elsewhere. have a single national standard so that people who It is because of my experience working with women require this fund, whether in Bushmills or Birmingham, affected by domestic violence and their families that I know that they will see the same standard, with the am so concerned about the Government’s proposals same requirements, the same grant and the same and what they could mean for those women. opportunity to avail themselves of that assistance. A woman fleeing domestic violence often must leave her home with nothing more that the clothes she is Bridget Phillipson: I agree entirely. It is vital that standing in, without money or access to money, but she people feel that appropriate safeguards are in place with still needs access to vital items for herself and her a national scheme and a national appeals system so that children, from food and nappies to children’s clothing. when things go wrong, as they sometimes do, there is an The social fund provides a vital lifeline for those women. appropriate means of redress so that decisions can be Although far from perfect—I admit its shortcomings—it looked at again. gives reassurance to the woman that help is available My concern with the Government’s proposals is that should she need it so that she does not feel pressured to we will end up with massive variation between councils return home to violence simple because she has no and between different parts of the United Kingdom, access to money. Community care grants allow women which will disadvantage people in certain areas. Some to start afresh, with a new life and a new home, by councils might choose a system that works very effectively covering some of the costs attached, such as a washing and addresses the needs of vulnerable groups, but others machine or a cooker. might not do that so well. That is why the Government 821 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 822

[Bridget Phillipson] Question put, That the amendment be made. The House divided: Ayes 237, Noes 300. must be very clear about the standards that they will demand of local authorities, but they are not being Division No. 294] [3.6 pm clear. AYES Women fleeing domestic violence are often forced out of their local area in order to seek safety, so what Abbott, Ms Diane Dodds, rh Mr Nigel safeguards can we expect when a woman is forced to Abrahams, Debbie Doran, Mr Frank move to an area where the local council might decide Alexander, Heidi Dowd, Jim that she is ineligible for support? In the urban areas of Ali, Rushanara Doyle, Gemma Allen, Mr Graham Dromey, Jack the north-east, where large local authorities cover small Anderson, Mr David geographical areas, it is not a great distance from Gateshead Dugher, Michael Ashworth, Jon Durkan, Mark to Sunderland, but might the local authority in Sunderland, Austin, Ian for example, take the view that the woman should seek Edwards, Jonathan Bailey, Mr Adrian Efford, Clive support from her local authority in Gateshead? I sincerely Bain, Mr William Ellman, Mrs Louise hope that it would not take such a view, as that could Balls, rh Ed Esterson, Bill Banks, Gordon hold up the process when the woman desperately needs Evans, Chris Barron, rh Mr Kevin financial help. This is not a factor at present because the Farrelly, Paul Bayley, Hugh scheme is a national one, but devolving responsibility to Fitzpatrick, Jim local councils will create a raft of potential problems for Beckett, rh Margaret Begg, Dame Anne Flello, Robert those councils and risk placing some very vulnerable Flint, rh Caroline people at risk of harm. Benn, rh Hilary Benton, Mr Joe Flynn, Paul It is simply not good enough for the Government to Berger, Luciana Fovargue, Yvonne hope that local councils will be able to manage this Betts, Mr Clive Francis, Dr Hywel complex change. With a budget that is not ring-fenced Blackman-Woods, Roberta Gapes, Mike and the potential for a reduced level of funding from Blears, rh Hazel Gardiner, Barry recovered grants, it is inevitable that some local councils Blenkinsop, Tom Gilmore, Sheila will not want to take people without a clear and established Blomfield, Paul Glass, Pat local connection, which I believe will be particularly Blunkett, rh Mr David Glindon, Mrs Mary damaging for women fleeing domestic violence if this is Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Goggins, rh Paul not done properly. That is why it is imperative that the Brennan, Kevin Goodman, Helen Government set out detailed proposals, as amendment 39 Brown, Lyn Greatrex, Tom makes clear, including eligibility criteria and an independent Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Green, Kate Brown, Mr Russell Griffith, Nia appeals mechanism. Without further clarity and detail, Bryant, Chris Gwynne, Andrew there is a real likelihood that some of the most vulnerable Buck, Ms Karen Hain, rh Mr Peter people in our communities will be unable to access Burden, Richard Hamilton, Mr David financial support when they need it most. Burnham, rh Andy Hamilton, Fabian Campbell, Mr Alan John McDonnell: I will not delay the House any Campbell, Mr Gregory Hanson, rh Mr David further because I think that colleagues from all Opposition Campbell, Mr Ronnie Harris, Mr Tom parties have demonstrated why they are not convinced by Caton, Martin Havard, Mr Dai the Government’s proposals, and why every charity and Chapman, Mrs Jenny Healey, rh John housing group in the country is not convinced either. Clark, Katy Hendrick, Mark Members’ surgeries will fill up as people can no longer Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hepburn, Mr Stephen Hermon, Lady receive grants and loans, so it is inevitable that we will Clwyd, rh Ann Heyes, David return to the issue at a later date to reform the Government’s Coaker, Vernon Coffey, Ann Hillier, Meg reforms. I will not push for two Divisions on this group Cooper, Rosie Hilling, Julie and, on the basis of supporting amendment 39, beg to Cooper, rh Yvette Hodge, rh Margaret ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Corbyn, Jeremy Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Crausby, Mr David Hoey, Kate Amendment proposed: 39, page 52, line 22, leave out Creagh, Mary Hood, Mr Jim subsection (1) and insert— Creasy, Stella Hosie, Stewart Cruddas, Jon Howarth, rh Mr George ‘(1) Section 138(1)(b) of the Social Security Contributions and Cryer, John Hunt, Tristram Benefits Act 1992 (discretionary payments out of Social Fund) Cunningham, Alex Jackson, Glenda may be repealed, if the Secretary of State— Cunningham, Mr Jim James, Mrs Siân C. Cunningham, Tony (a) publishes a detailed proposal for a replacement Jamieson, Cathy scheme, or schemes, based on wide consultation with Curran, Margaret Jarvis, Dan relevant stakeholders; Dakin, Nic Danczuk, Simon Johnson, rh Alan (b) ensures that such a scheme, or schemes, will provide Darling, rh Mr Alistair Johnson, Diana financial protection for applicants in an emergency David, Mr Wayne Jones, Graham or crisis, with the eligibility criteria for applicants Jones, Helen specified in regulations; Davidson, Mr Ian Davies, Geraint Jones, Mr Kevan (c) demonstrates the feasibility of such a scheme, or De Piero, Gloria Jones, Susan Elan schemes, through a pilot or pathfinder process; and Dobbin, Jim Jowell, rh Tessa (d) demonstrates how an independent appeals mechanism Dobson, rh Frank Joyce, Eric will be implemented.’.—(Ms Buck.) Docherty, Thomas Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald 823 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 824

Keeley, Barbara Reeves, Rachel Boles, Nick Gibb, Mr Nick Kendall, Liz Reynolds, Emma Bone, Mr Peter Gilbert, Stephen Khan, rh Sadiq Reynolds, Jonathan Bottomley, Sir Peter Glen, John Lammy, rh Mr David Riordan, Mrs Linda Bradley, Karen Goodwill, Mr Robert Lavery, Ian Robertson, Angus Brady, Mr Graham Graham, Richard Lazarowicz, Mark Robertson, John Brake, Tom Grant, Mrs Helen Lewis, Mr Ivan Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Bray, Angie Grayling, rh Chris Lloyd, Tony Rotheram, Steve Brazier, Mr Julian Green, Damian Long, Naomi Roy, Lindsay Bridgen, Andrew Greening, Justine Love, Mr Andrew Ruane, Chris Brine, Mr Steve Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Lucas, Caroline Ruddock, rh Joan Brokenshire, James Griffiths, Andrew Lucas, Ian Sarwar, Anas Brooke, Annette Gyimah, Mr Sam MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Seabeck, Alison Bruce, Fiona Hague, rh Mr William MacShane, rh Mr Denis Shannon, Jim Buckland, Mr Robert Halfon, Robert Mactaggart, Fiona Sharma, Mr Virendra Burley, Mr Aidan Hames, Duncan Mahmood, Shabana Sheerman, Mr Barry Burns, Conor Hammond, rh Mr Philip Mann, John Sheridan, Jim Burrowes, Mr David Hammond, Stephen McCann, Mr Michael Shuker, Gavin Burstow, Paul Hancock, Matthew McCarthy, Kerry Simpson, David Byles, Dan Hancock, Mr Mike McClymont, Gregg Skinner, Mr Dennis Cairns, Alun Hands, Greg McCrea, Dr William Slaughter, Mr Andy Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harper, Mr Mark McDonagh, Siobhain Smith, rh Mr Andrew Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Harrington, Richard McDonnell, John Smith, Angela Carmichael, Neil Harris, Rebecca McFadden, rh Mr Pat Smith, Nick Chishti, Rehman Heald, Oliver McGovern, Alison Smith, Owen Clark, rh Greg Heath, Mr David McGovern, Jim Spellar, rh Mr John Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Heaton-Harris, Chris McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Straw, rh Mr Jack Hemming, John McKechin, Ann Coffey, Dr Thérèse Stringer, Graham Henderson, Gordon McKinnell, Catherine Collins, Damian Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Hendry, Charles Meacher, rh Mr Michael Colvile, Oliver Thomas, Mr Gareth Herbert, rh Nick Mearns, Ian Crabb, Stephen Thornberry, Emily Michael, rh Alun Crockart, Mike Hoban, Mr Mark Timms, rh Stephen Miliband, rh David Crouch, Tracey Hollingbery, George Trickett, Jon Mitchell, Austin Davey, Mr Edward Hollobone, Mr Philip Turner, Karl Moon, Mrs Madeleine Davies, David T. C. Holloway, Mr Adam Morden, Jessica Twigg, Stephen (Monmouth) Hopkins, Kris Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Umunna, Mr Chuka Davies, Glyn Horwood, Martin Morris, Grahame M. Vaz, Valerie Davies, Philip Howarth, Mr Gerald (Easington) Walley, Joan Davis, rh Mr David Howell, John Mudie, Mr George Whiteford, Dr Eilidh de Bois, Nick Hughes, rh Simon Munn, Meg Whitehead, Dr Alan Dinenage, Caroline Huhne, rh Chris Murphy, rh Mr Jim Wicks, rh Malcolm Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Murphy, rh Paul Williams, Hywel Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Huppert, Dr Julian Nandy, Lisa Williamson, Chris Dorries, Nadine Javid, Sajid Nash, Pamela Wilson, Phil Doyle-Price, Jackie Jenkin, Mr Bernard O’Donnell, Fiona Winnick, Mr David Drax, Richard Johnson, Gareth Onwurah, Chi Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Duddridge, James Johnson, Joseph Osborne, Sandra Duncan, rh Mr Alan Wishart, Pete Jones, Andrew Owen, Albert Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Wood, Mike Jones, Mr David Paisley, Ian Dunne, Mr Philip Woodcock, John Kawczynski, Daniel Pearce, Teresa Ellis, Michael Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Kelly, Chris Perkins, Toby Ellison, Jane Wright, David Phillipson, Bridget Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kirby, Simon Wright, Mr Iain Pound, Stephen Elphicke, Charlie Knight, rh Mr Greg Qureshi, Yasmin Tellers for the Ayes: Eustice, George Kwarteng, Kwasi Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Mark Tami and Evans, Graham Laing, Mrs Eleanor Reed, Mr Jamie Lilian Greenwood Evans, Jonathan Lamb, Norman Evennett, Mr David Lancaster, Mark Latham, Pauline NOES Fabricant, Michael Fallon, Michael Leadsom, Andrea Adams, Nigel Barwell, Gavin Field, Mr Mark Lee, Jessica Afriyie, Adam Bebb, Guto Foster, rh Mr Don Lee, Dr Phillip Aldous, Peter Beith, rh Sir Alan Francois, rh Mr Mark Leech, Mr John Amess, Mr David Benyon, Richard Freeman, George Lefroy, Jeremy Andrew, Stuart Beresford, Sir Paul Freer, Mike Leigh, Mr Edward Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Berry, Jake Fullbrook, Lorraine Leslie, Charlotte Bacon, Mr Richard Bingham, Andrew Fuller, Richard Lewis, Brandon Baker, Steve Binley, Mr Brian Gale, Mr Roger Lewis, Dr Julian Baldry, Tony Birtwistle, Gordon Garnier, Mr Edward Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Baldwin, Harriett Blackman, Bob Garnier, Mark Lidington, rh Mr David Barclay, Stephen Blackwood, Nicola Gauke, Mr David Lilley, rh Mr Peter Baron, Mr John Blunt, Mr Crispin George, Andrew Lloyd, Stephen 825 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 826

Lopresti, Jack Sandys, Laura Clause 74 Lord, Jonathan Scott, Mr Lee Loughton, Tim Selous, Andrew STATE PENSION CREDIT: CAPITAL LIMIT Lumley, Karen Shapps, rh Grant Macleod, Mary Sharma, Alok Amendment made: 19, page 54, line 15, clause 74, at Main, Mrs Anne Shelbrooke, Alec end insert— Maynard, Paul Shepherd, Mr Richard ‘( ) In section 19 of that Act (regulations and orders), in McCartney, Jason Simmonds, Mark subsection (2), before paragraph (a) there is inserted— McCartney, Karl Simpson, Mr Keith “(za) section 1(2)(d),”.’—(Maria Miller.) McIntosh, Miss Anne Skidmore, Chris McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Miss Chloe Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): On a McPartland, Stephen Smith, Julian point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. We now come to a McVey, Esther Smith, Sir Robert sensible grouping of amendments, to be considered Mensch, Mrs Louise Soubry, Anna Menzies, Mark Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline together, on the personal independence payment. The Mercer, Patrick Spencer, Mr Mark first, amendment 43, refers to clause 78, but amendments 41 Metcalfe, Stephen Stephenson, Andrew and 42 refer to clause 83, which is about a rather Miller, Maria Stevenson, John separate issue, so I hope that the Chair will take into Mills, Nigel Stewart, Bob account the progress of the debate in order to decide Milton, Anne Stewart, Iain whether to allow a vote, if necessary, on amendments 41 Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stewart, Rory and 42. Mordaunt, Penny Streeter, Mr Gary Morgan, Nicky Stride, Mel Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): We will see Morris, Anne Marie Stuart, Mr Graham how the debate goes, and I am sure that we will look Morris, David Stunell, Andrew favourably upon the issue when we get there. Morris, James Sturdy, Julian Mosley, Stephen Swales, Ian Mowat, David Swayne, Mr Desmond Clause 78 Mulholland, Greg Swinson, Jo Mundell, rh David Syms, Mr Robert ABILITY TO CARRY OUT DAILY LIVING ACTIVITIES OR Munt, Tessa Tapsell, Sir Peter Murray, Sheryll Thurso, John MOBILITY ACTIVITIES Murrison, Dr Andrew Timpson, Mr Edward Neill, Robert Tomlinson, Justin Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab): I beg to Newmark, Mr Brooks Tredinnick, David move amendment 43, page 56, line 40, at end insert— Newton, Sarah Truss, Elizabeth ‘(7) Regulations shall exempt people with prescribed medical Nokes, Caroline Turner, Mr Andrew conditions from the requirement in subsection (4)(c), including in Norman, Jesse Tyrie, Mr Andrew prescribed circumstances where the individual is— Nuttall, Mr David Uppal, Paul (a) severely mentally impaired; O’Brien, Mr Stephen Vaizey, Mr Edward (b) a double amputee; Offord, Mr Matthew Vickers, Martin (c) deaf/blind; Ollerenshaw, Eric Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa (d) undergoing haemodialysis; Patel, Priti Walker, Mr Charles Penrose, John Walker, Mr Robin (e) severely visually impaired; and/or Percy, Andrew Wallace, Mr Ben (f) meets the requirements of special rules set out in Perry, Claire Ward, Mr David Clause 80.’. Phillips, Stephen Watkinson, Angela Pickles, rh Mr Eric Weatherley, Mike Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it Pincher, Christopher will be convenient to discuss the following: Poulter, Dr Daniel Wharton, James Prisk, Mr Mark Wheeler, Heather Amendment 76, in clause 79, page 56, line 45, leave Pritchard, Mark White, Chris out ‘as respects every time’ and insert Pugh, John Whittaker, Craig ‘as regularly as their disabling condition occurs’. Whittingdale, Mr John Raab, Mr Dominic Amendment 44, page 56, line 45, leave out ‘6’ and Randall, rh Mr John Wiggin, Bill Reckless, Mark Willetts, rh Mr David insert ‘3’. Redwood, rh Mr John Williams, Mr Mark Amendment 77, page 57, line 3, leave out ‘as respects Rees-Mogg, Jacob Williamson, Gavin every time’ and insert Reevell, Simon Willott, Jenny ‘as regularly as their disabling condition occurs’. Reid, Mr Alan Wilson, Mr Rob Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Amendment 45, page 57, line 3, leave out ‘6’ and Wollaston, Dr Sarah insert ‘9’. Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Wright, Jeremy Robertson, Mr Laurence Wright, Simon Amendment 46, page 57, line 15, leave out from Rogerson, Dan Yeo, Mr Tim ‘previous’ to second ‘months’ and insert Rosindell, Andrew Young, rh Sir George ‘3 months means the 3’. Rudd, Amber Zahawi, Nadhim Ruffley, Mr David Amendment 47, page 57, line 17, leave out from ‘next’ Russell, Bob Tellers for the Noes: to second ‘months’ and insert Rutley, David Mr Shailesh Vara and ‘9 months means the 9’. Sanders, Mr Adrian Mark Hunter Amendment 66, in clause 83, page 58, line 34, leave out ‘meets the condition in subsection (2)’ and insert Question accordingly negatived. ‘is an inpatient of a hospital’. 827 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 828

Amendment 41, page 58, line 35, leave out ‘2’ and whereby somebody has to fill out a long, and at times insert ‘3’. complicated, form—is not one that many people believe Amendment 42, page 58, line 40, at beginning insert— to be suitable in a modern welfare state. We therefore believe, and have said consistently throughout our ‘(3) The condition is that the person is an in-patient of a hospital. deliberations, that it is right to reform DLA. We welcome the Government’s decision to keep DLA as a non-means- (4) ’. tested, in-work benefit, and we think it is right to Amendment 73, in clause 86, page 59, line 35, at end introduce a new, objective gateway. insert— Notwithstanding that, we feel that this Government ‘(3) The Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a report have made profound mistakes and have missed on the impact of regulations made under section 83 within opportunities in their approach to DLA reform. The 12 months of the regulations being laid before Parliament.’. whole process was kick-started by a rushed consultation. Amendment 60, in schedule 10, page 140, line 25, at Apparently, according to the DWP website, it was one end insert— of the biggest of its kind, yet despite all those representations ‘(3) The Secretary of State shall ensure that, in respect of any it yielded very few changes following the introduction person whose award of disability living allowance is terminated of the Bill. The consultation was carried out over the on or after the appointed day, an award of personal independence Christmas and new period and was cut short. Perhaps payment is made without application, and that said award is not most disappointingly of all, the Government chose to subject to the requirements of assessment in section 78(3) or (4), or subsection (2) of this section, until: publish their proposals before it had even closed. No wonder this Minister, in particular, has a reputation for (a) The Secretary of State has commissioned an independent not listening. She will know that charities and the report, no less than six months after the appointed day, on the effectiveness of the assessment process as disabled people whom they represent have been highly used on new applicants for personal independence critical of the process of reform. It did not have to be payment, and; like that, and it is very disappointing that the Government (b) The Secretary of State has satisfied himself, having did not undertake more groundwork to ensure that key consulted with disabled people, that the assessment stakeholders were a key part of the reform process. process is functioning correctly.’. While we take issue with the process of reform, we Amendment 74, in clause 91, page 61, line 13, at end also have major concerns about its substance, and that insert— will be the focus of my remarks. We now know that ‘(c) the first regulations under section 83 containing provisions universal credit will halve support for disabled children about the payment of the mobility component of and take away the severe disability premium for disabled personal independence payments to residents of a people who live alone without a carer, yet put nothing care home.’. appropriate in its place. Furthermore, part 4 outlines details of the new personal independence payment, Margaret Curran: We have reached a vital stage in with proposals to make disabled people wait half a year our consideration of the Bill. Government proposals before they receive support and to take away the right of for the reform of benefits for disabled people have been automatic entitlement for those with severely disabling mired in controversy and bogged down by issues that conditions. The proposals are plainly chaotic and confused the Government have failed to address, and they have as regards the future of DLA mobility component for alienated many organisations of and for disabled people. those in residential care homes. Sadly, instead of listening to and attempting to understand those concerns, the Government have dismissed them and undermined the traction that they command Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): My hon. Friend throughout the country. So much for the new politics! has referred to the Government not listening and not Instead of continuing the previous policy and the new understanding. Does she share my utter dismay at what approach of co-production practised with care and the Prime Minister said at Prime Minister’s questions, consideration by my right hon. Friend the Member for when, on at least four occasions, he failed to acknowledge Stirling (Mrs McGuire) when she was the Minister with and understand what the Bill means, or even to see the responsibility for disabled people, the Under-Secretary difference between those who are terminally ill and has been steadfast in her refusal to appreciate the issues those with cancer? brought to her, which I will detail. I fear that her approach has alienated the voices for reform in the Margaret Curran: I could not agree more. It was disability movement and in this House. As a result, we staggering how ill-informed the Prime Minister seemed are debating a huge missed opportunity for meaningful to be about the impact that the Bill will have on cancer reform. However, we are where we are, and we will patients. I will make reference to further experiences debate the proposals before us and our amendments to that cancer victims will have as a result of these proposals. improve them. There is worse news for them, as we will find out. Let me say a few words to provide some context. Our amendments seek to put right the wrongs in the Although disability living allowance is a much respected Bill. They would make the personal independence payment and much valued benefit, it was designed in a different a fairer, more effective and more workable component time, well before measures such as the Disability of welfare reform. That is incredibly important given Discrimination Act 2005 and the Equality Act 2010, the scale of the reform, with 1.8 million working-age which were introduced by the last Labour Government people being assessed in just three short years. Let me and which have profoundly changed the way in which begin with one of the most controversial elements of disabled people participate and are recognised in society the Government’s proposals and explain the key arguments today. I acknowledge that the application procedure to behind our amendments to clause 83, which deals with make a new DLA claim—the process of self-assessment the mobility component for those in residential care 829 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 830

[Margaret Curran] Ian Paisley: Does the hon. Lady agree that what will be foisted on people tonight if we are not careful is a homes. That policy has attracted much attention and sleight of hand whereby, from March 2013, people will has been the subject of much debate inside and outside be moved across duplicitously from DLA to PIP, and the House, yet the Government’s position remains, I am then PIP will be withdrawn? Of course, DLA will not be sorry to say, far from clear. withdrawn because it no longer exists. That sleight of The blanket cut to those living in residential care was hand should be rejected outright by this House. first announced by the Chancellor in the comprehensive spending review: it is there on page 12 of the documentation 3.30 pm that I have here beside me. For the record, that position has not changed. The cut was in the first Budget document, Margaret Curran: This is getting embarrassing because, and it remains in today’s Budget document. Granted, it again, I could not agree with the hon. Gentleman more. has been delayed by six months, but it is still there. The He made the point perfectly. I commend him because he proposal was met with an outcry from disabled people, too takes a strong interest in this matter and has argued disability organisations and the Opposition. Where was passionately for his constituents. the Government’s much vaunted compassionate welfare Unlike the Government’s position on DLA mobility reform? Why single out this particular group? Why for those in residential care homes, Labour’s position is select perhaps one of the most vulnerable sections of crystal clear, as are our amendments. The Government society? We have heard much talk of reviews and overlaps, must not remove DLA mobility for those in residential but let there be no mistake—unless clause 83 is amended, care and must delete the part of clause 83 that sets out people living in residential care homes can have their to do just that. When I say “DLA mobility” throughout DLA mobility taken away from them. my remarks, I also mean as it applies to PIP mobility. Let me draw to the attention of Members who may There have been many warm words from the Minister be thinking about how they will vote a briefing submitted on the Government’s plans on DLA mobility, but they by several charitable organisations, which says that come as little reassurance to disabled people when they while the Government are no longer planning to remove realise that absolutely nothing has changed since the cut DLA mobility from people living in residential care, was announced. The clause remains unamended and they are planning to remove PIP mobility. Members the cut remains in the Budget book. Some 80,000 should be careful to remember that if the Government disabled people continue to be under threat of losing say they are not removing DLA mobility, the Bill as it out at the hands of this Government. Warm words, yes; stands will remove PIP mobility. a change in policy, no. When justifying this cut, the Minister explains that it Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): I accept the is about removing the overlap in provision. She has hon. Lady’s observations about the confusion over described a situation of chaos in the residential care the Government’s intentions. I think she just said that the sector in relation to this benefit, but hon. Members and Bill will remove PIP mobility. Is it not the case that the charities have heard little or no evidence to substantiate Government could bring forward regulations to remove that claim. Furthermore, she knows as well as we do PIP mobility? What we have to determine this afternoon, that she does not need clause 83 to remove any overlap and what I hope Ministers will give us assurances on, is there might be in the provision of services to support whether that is the Government’s intention. the mobility and transport needs of care home residents. She already has the power to set new eligibility criteria. Margaret Curran: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his Such criteria could remove any overlap in funding or comments. I know that he takes a great interest in this inconsistency in practice and ensure that the mobility matter. That is exactly the point I am about to address. component of DLA is used appropriately—I presume Our purpose this afternoon is to prohibit the Government that that is the reason for her concerns about overlap. If from ever taking away PIP mobility from those in care homes or local authorities are using the mobility residential care. I hope that I can win his support, component in a way that is not appropriate, she should because I know that he has a genuine interest in this address it head-on with the care homes and local authorities. matter. I hope he bears with me, and I will gladly allow him to intervene again. Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend is making an extremely good case. One of my constituents has said that if the mobility component of DLA is taken away, it Sir Peter Bottomley: Just to put it in plain English, are we agreed across the House that the mobility allowance, “will make a prison of my son’s care home”. as it used to be called, should be available to people who A wider issue that has been raised by many constituents happen to live in a residential home, rather than in their is that people may be in care for many years with own home, whether their home is within a residential considerable mobility needs and that the care home home or they are living in a block with others? needs the extra resources to get them beyond the front door. Margaret Curran: Yes, that is what we agree on. Our amendments would ensure that the Government do not Margaret Curran: I thank my hon. Friend for drawing have a blanket power to remove PIP mobility from our attention to his constituents’ concerns. I am sure people because they live in residential care. If Members that he, and all Members, will bear that experience in agree with me, they should vote for our amendments. I mind when we vote this afternoon. I appeal to Members will go through the arguments again, and hopefully that to consider the significant needs of people who live in point will be clear. care homes. That should direct us in how we vote. 831 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 832

Mark Durkan: Does the hon. Lady agree that many When the Minister is not talking about “overlap” in people will be perturbed and confused by the fact that an attempt to address the problem in question, she is the Government are derelict on the real crisis affecting talking about the need for a review. It was promised that care homes in funding, ownership and stability, but are the review, first announced earlier this year, would look diligent in trying to claw back the pittance that some into the provision of DLA mobility to those in residential people in those care homes receive, based on the myth care homes, which I know offered some succour to that there is some financial West Lothian question Members who were concerned about the matter. Labour whereby people are being paid out of one fund and also Members were mildly optimistic that that was a signal getting money out of another? that the Government were undertaking a rethink, as we know they are prepared to do when the time is right. Margaret Curran: The hon. Gentleman makes his However, we have been sadly disappointed. Although a point with great passion. We must bear in mind the review was launched, it has no time scale, there are no context in which this decision is being taken and the terms of reference, no review group has been established scale of resource that is involved. I have to say to him and there is no involvement for disabled people. No that we have found no evidence of great concerns about wonder people are confused about where the policy the practice of care homes and local authorities on the stands. matter. The Minister has not presented any such evidence I remind the House that at Prime Minister’s questions to us or to charities, and we cannot see where the great on 23 March, the Prime Minister offered the Leader of worry or cause for concern is. the Opposition an opportunity to contribute to the review. I do not think that possibility actually exists. George Hollingbery: I have just a small point. I think Have the terms of reference of the review been made I heard the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) public? No. Will the findings be published? No. This is say that PIP was being withdrawn after the change from not a review, it is, as the hon. Member for North Antrim DLA. I believe the hon. Lady will confirm that we are (Ian Paisley) said, a delaying tactic to cover up a deeply talking about the mobility component, not PIP in its flawed policy. In my wilder moments I thought it was entirety. perhaps an appeasement of some Liberal Democrat Members, because we know that their party conference Margaret Curran: If I made that mistake, I am very overwhelmingly passed a resolution condemning the grateful for the opportunity to correct it. We are talking policy. The Liberal Democrats in Committee disappeared about the mobility component of DLA, which will be when the matter was voted on. They are here today, so I transferred to PIP. I will come on to broader concerns hope they will join us and help to defeat this particularly about PIP later, but I thank the hon. Gentleman. pernicious part of the Bill. I appeal to them to make I was talking about how the Government are addressing their presence felt today in a way that they did not in the issue of overlap and introducing a review. I assume Committee. that part of their concern is the need for greater consistency in how funding for people who live in residential care is Ian Paisley: Does the hon. Lady agree that throughout arranged. I put it to the Minister directly that if there all of this—no matter how it is dressed up or how needs to be greater consistency in how the transport Opposition Members are criticised—the policy is about and wider mobility needs of residents are addressed, doing one, well named thing? It is about making the she should issue the appropriate guidelines to care pips squeak among the most vulnerable in our country. homes. Whatever she chooses to do to address the That is another reason why it should be opposed. matter, it is plainly wrong and irresponsible to make victims of the residents themselves by the blanket withdrawal of a benefit to which they are legitimately Margaret Curran: This is embarrassing, because hon. entitled. Members are putting the argument so much more effectively than I am. The core of the argument, which should determine how we vote today, is that the power in clause 83 is To conclude on this section of my contribution, may necessary only if the Government want to remove payments I make an appeal to Members of the House? We have a solely on the basis that someone lives in a residential moment in time. We are being watched by disabled care home. If that is not the aim, we need to change the people this afternoon, and by their organisations. This Bill. goes to the heart of what we are about. People will be prisoners in residential care and prisoners in their own Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): On that point, homes if this provision is removed from them. Many does the hon. Lady agree that under article 20 of the opportunities for them will also be withdrawn. I appeal UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities, to hon. Members: let us do the right thing this evening on personal mobility, and article 31 of the UN convention and vote for amendment 43—I also intend, Mr Deputy on the rights of the child, removing the mobility component Speaker, to press amendments 42 and 44 to a Division from children in residential homes may amount to a when the time comes. breach of the UK’s obligations in human rights I shall now discuss specific aspects of the personal conventions? independence payment that should be changed to make the new benefit fairer and more effective in giving Margaret Curran: That is a very interesting observation, support to those who need it, and to assist a smooth and I thank the hon. Gentleman for drawing it to the transition for existing claimants to the new benefit. House’s attention. I know that he takes a great interest Amendments 44 to 47 seek to amend clause 79 and the in these matters. That point gives us even more reason proposed change to the required period condition for to argue that Members should support the amendments— PIP. The amendments would retain the three-month they would avoid any problem of that nature. period that claimants must wait before they are eligible 833 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 834

[Margaret Curran] worries can have on health, including leading to a deterioration in health. It is therefore especially pernicious to receive PIP, but would extend the period over which a that the Government have come forward with this policy. claimant must show that they will be with that disability Cancer and stroke victims will suffer severely from this, from six months, as is currently the case with DLA, to because they can have major changes in costs very early nine months. in their conditions. Cancer and stroke victims may not In other words, for those who have not followed every be terminal, but they can still have great needs and single detail of the Bill like those of us who served in society needs to support them in working through the Committee, like the Government intend, the Opposition terrible and difficult circumstances they are experiencing. would extend the current DLA required condition period from nine months to one year for PIP. However, the Fiona O’Donnell: Does my hon. Friend agree that this Opposition would extend the provision after receipt of is about more than the entitlement to DLA or PIP: it is the benefit, not at the beginning. To do otherwise would about all the other benefits that that triggers, including be to penalise unfairly those disabled people who need carer’s allowance so that a whole family can be supported extra help associated with their disability early in their through that difficult time? treatment. Yet again, there is some confusion as to the rationale Margaret Curran: Indeed, and for those of us who behind the change in the waiting time for PIP. In have experience of how families struggle through family Committee, the Minister said that the change was illness or lower incomes, we know how important that categorically not about savings. She clearly stated: is. We do not want to have a society in which people “I will be honest and open with my answer. I would like to who are struggling with major illnesses have to worry reassure the hon. Lady”— about how they will meet their family bills. meaning me— Cancer and stroke victims usually require help early “that the principal aim of extending the qualifying period from in their conditions. As of August 2010, some 195,000 three to six months is not about savings. We do not expect the people were receiving DLA for a malignant disease or a measure to provide any significant savings.”––[Official Report, stroke-related condition. Many in this group who are of Welfare Reform Public Bill Committee, 10 May 2011; c. 848.] working age may well be the very individuals who will Furthermore, I have asked the Minister in a series of be affected by clause 79 and the decision to lengthen the written parliamentary questions what the projected savings qualifying period to six months. are. Again, her Department was unable to provide any The extra costs will vary from individual to individual, sort of answer—nor do its answers so much as allude to but we can safely assume that they include key criteria potential savings resulting from this policy decision—yet such as extra fuel costs, costs associated with aids, at Department for Work and Pensions questions on adaptations and special diets, and extra costs of washing Monday, the Minister appeared to backtrack, stating clothes and such like. that “modest” savings were now part of the reasoning for pushing ahead with the change. In her response Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): On the today, will she indicate the scale of those modest savings? issue of extra fuel costs, one reason why the last It is a little concerning that the rationale behind changes Government—followed by this Government—said that that will make such a big difference to the lives of many they would not extend the winter fuel payment to those disabled people in this country is, even at this late stage, with disabilities was that it was already covered in the being cobbled together by the Government. payments received under DLA. If the people who move If we cannot comment on savings from the policy, we on to PIP do not get those payments, they will be can at least discuss its impact on disabled people who disadvantaged. require PIP to help them to meet extra costs associated with their disability. In Committee, we discussed in Margaret Curran: I thank my hon. Friend for that great detail the different conditions that are likely to point, which reinforces why we should not accept the require early support, so I will not go into them in great Government’s proposals and instead vote for this depth today unless pushed to do so. amendment. Simply to shrug aside the points that have been made or—as I suspect the Minister will argue—to Jim Shannon: The hon. Lady has clearly outlined the pass on the obligation for meeting these costs to local issues in relation to the qualifying period. Is she aware, authorities that are already feeling the strain of funding as many in the House are, that for people in poor would be unfair and a great insult to many victims. health, it is a time of stress and anxiety? The Government Cancer patients are already the victims of the decision are talking about increasing the qualifying period when to time-limit the contributory employment and support people are under the most pressure regarding their allowance to just one year, as the Prime Minister now health, so putting them under additional, financial pressure. understands. Why should they be punished yet again at Does she feel that such financial pressure will impact on the hands of this Government when it comes to reforming people’s health at a time when they need less pressure DLA? We had controversy this morning about how and more help? cancer patients are being treated by this Government and now we have more concerns and more difficulties for cancer patients. 3.45 pm Margaret Curran: The hon. Gentleman makes a very Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): As it strong point. The Macmillan cancer charity, which has is carers week, it is also important to remember that already had an airing in the Chamber today, makes when someone is having treatment in a hospital that strong representations about the impact that financial may be some distance from home, there is also an 835 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 836 impact on family members, who end up taking time off avoidance of needless assessment, it is also grounded in work and have to pay high travel costs. That has an the goal of appeasing the anxiety of many disabled impact on the whole family’s income, not just the person people about having to undergo reassessment for PIP who is suffering the illness. eligibility. As I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) knows, one of the Margaret Curran: Indeed, and there is often an impact biggest concerns disabled people tell us about is the on the wider family, not just the immediate family. constant reassessments they have to undergo, despite it We believe that the Government are misguided in being obvious to everybody that they have a disability. their decision to lengthen the time disabled people must They are needless assessments. wait before they are given support. The Government are also wrong to remove automatic entitlement for Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Does my hon. certain severely disabled people who currently have the Friend agree that problems are also created by the automatic right to receive the higher rate of DLA. At period disabled people have to wait before an assessment the moment, the severely mentally impaired—that is the and the consequent stress and worry? They read newspapers language that is used—double amputees and those who that convince them they are not going to get the benefit, are deaf-blind, undergoing haemodialysis or are severely and their overall state worsens as a result of this whole visually impaired are automatically able to receive higher exercise. rates of DLA. Under the Bill, however, only those with a terminal illness will automatically receive PIP.Obviously Margaret Curran: Yes, absolutely, and we have an I welcome the Government’s commitment to protect the opportunity here to minimise that stress and to address terminally ill, but we believe that this obligation does the problems. I strongly believe that we should take that not go far enough. Amendment 43 would ensure that opportunity. those with a severely disabling condition, who are currently Mark Durkan: Does the hon. Lady recognise that eligible for automatic entitlement, would retain that many people are concerned that as the costs of right following the introduction of PIPs. administering the assessments emerge and escalate, they It is important that we keep in mind the group of will be met not by scaling back the arrangements, but people whom we are talking about in the amendment. by tightening the criteria and reducing the benefits Is the Minister planning to inform the House today that awarded? an individual who is severely mentally impaired or a double amputee might not now be eligible for the higher Margaret Curran: I acknowledge that many disabled rate of PIP? That would be quite an announcement. people and disability organisations are extremely concerned What reason is there to force this group of severely about that, given the Government’s track record on this. disabled people to undergo an assessment process of We cannot underestimate or brush aside the level of which we can all safely predict the outcome? We now anxiety of many people in this country about the reform know that the Government plan to spend £675 million of DLA. Many people find incredibly stressful and on establishing PIP, on the bureaucracy of PIP and on worrying the prospect of having to go through a new the reassessment of 1.8 million working-age recipients face-to-face assessment to prove their disability, despite of disability living allowance. it being abundantly clear, in order to receive help. It is the Government’s job to assure disabled people Jeremy Corbyn: Does my hon. Friend have estimates that the introduction of PIPs—I know that the Minister of the cost of each of these interviews that will have to tries to do this—will not mean the end of financial take place; of how many will be unnecessary; of how support for disabled people. Given the Minister’s efforts many will be appealed successfully; and of the incredible on that, I plead with the Government to go that extra stress and hardship through which individuals will be mile to assure disabled people that the process is about put while knowing full well that unfortunately they can meaningful reform of an important benefit, rather than never get a job or go to work, and that they will have to an attempt to remove it from those whom they can get be in receipt of benefits in the future? away with removing it from. One way the Government can do that is by ensuring that the most severely disabled Margaret Curran: I am afraid that I do not have members of our society do not face needless upheaval specific numbers to hand, but I will make it my business and uncertainty over the future of support following to get that information because it would be very interesting. the introduction of PIPs. I am sure that some organisations could help us estimate those numbers and the different categories that my hon. Stephen Lloyd: I understand where the hon. Lady is Friend highlighted. He outlined a common-sense approach. coming from, but does she agree that the Government It makes no sense to put these people through this have made good progress by bringing in Professor stress, or to add to the bureaucratic costs of administering Harrington to ensure that the test—which, to be honest, the process, when that money should be going to the we inherited from the previous Government—is improved? disabled people themselves. In a time of economic restraint, I am sure that Margaret Curran: That test was introduced for the everyone on both sides of the House agrees that this is a work capability assessment and the application of huge amount of money to spend on administration, so employment and support allowance, as the hon. Gentleman we should consider opportunities to reduce the costs. It knows. Of course I acknowledge that the Minister is is absurd to propose reassessing conditions that will working with disabled people to try to ensure that the clearly be eligible for the new PIPs. I have asked how test is as effective as it can be, but I have to tell the hon. much it will cost, and I will try to get answers—perhaps Gentleman and the Minister that most disabled people the Minister can give them in her reply. If the argument are saying that they are not satisfied. I do not think that for retaining automatic entitlement is rooted in the reassurances have been given that the test is right yet. 837 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 838

[Margaret Curran] Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD): I rise to speak to the amendments tabled in my name, which focus on None the less, what I am talking about in this debate is the mobility component of the disability living allowance automatic entitlement, which is a different issue. Even if for those in care homes. We have already heard a the test were perfect, which would be very hard to lot about that from the hon. Member for Glasgow East achieve—we are very far from that—putting people (Margaret Curran). Amendment 74 asks for the regulations through needless assessments, all at a cost, would still on this issue to be dealt with under the affirmative, not be worth it when they are clearly disabled. Retaining rather than the negative, procedure. Amendment 73 asks automatic entitlement for severely disabled people would for a report on the impact of the changes after one year. be a small step, but would enable the Government to send out an important signal to show that they are listening and that they get some of this. The big cry 4pm coming from disabled people is that there has been no There were many concerns across the House when shift from the Government and no signals, and that the Government announced their original plan to remove they do not get it. the mobility component of the disability living allowance from all those in care homes. Concern was expressed Amendment 60, which is our final amendment in the particularly about young people in boarding schools group, would ensure that the process of reassessment and residential care, and about the impact on parents will result in an orderly, careful and efficient transition who have to meet extra costs associated with their for working-age claimants. As I have said before, we child’s disability, whether or not they are in residential need to keep in mind the scale of the exercise that the care. For example, they might need to meet the additional Government are proposing to undertake. We are talking cost of an adapted or expensive car to transport the about reassessing 1.8 million working-age people on young person around. Concern was also expressed about DLA in the space of just three years. To meet that goal, the impact of the proposal on older people in residential the Government would need to reassess—I can assure care, and it is that issue that seems to have taken off, my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North that I rather than a focus on younger people. do have the figures for this—roughly 600,000 people, which is 11,500 people a week or more than 2,000 a day. The Government have listened, however, and they That is the scale of the process that disabled people will have said that they no longer plan to remove the mobility have to go through. component of the disability living allowance from all those in residential care. Instead, they have made it Given the scale and depth of concern about this clear that they intend to tackle instances of overlapping issue, our amendment 60 proposes that checks and funding, such as when a local authority is providing balances be written into the Bill to ensure that lessons funding for someone’s mobility needs directly to a care are learnt as reform develops—we have tried to learn home and the individual is also getting DLA. I hope some of those lessons ourselves—and that the teething that the Minister will confirm that that is the Government’s problems of assessment are addressed and disabled intention, because it is important to be clear that we are people have the confidence that reform will work for tackling the overlap of funding rather than entirely them. Amendment 60 would embrace this opportunity removing mobility support from people in care homes. to send out a clear message that we will learn from mistakes in the system and iron out anomalies of the Fiona O’Donnell: Under the hon. Lady’s definition of assessment before we start to assess some of the most overlapping provision for mobility needs, would she vulnerable people currently receiving DLA, by ensuring settle only for what we would expect anyone living in the that only new applicants are assessed first. That is what wider community to have—namely, complete freedom the safeguard would do. Amendment 60 is fair and of choice and access to transport to assist them when it proportionate. We are not saying that reassessment is suits them? wrong; we are simply saying that it needs to be done properly and carefully, and that it should be phased, Jenny Willott: I am about to come to my understanding with the Secretary of State playing a key role in the of that point. Obviously, it is up to the Minister to process to ensure clear scrutiny and accountability. determine her definition, and I am sure that the hon. The amendments would ensure that the personal Lady will be able to comment on what the Minister has independence payment was a fairer, more effective and to say later. workable reform. As I set out in my introductory remarks, I am also glad that the Government have put on hold the Opposition support reform and the principles of the plan to introduce this change while comprehensive reform; however, the Government have wasted a significant research is carried out. Any decision needs to be based opportunity to introduce such reform. If the universal on solid evidence, and it has become clear that no credit penalises families of disabled children by halving research has been done in the past, so no such evidence the support available to them; penalises severely disabled has been available so far. people who live alone by neglecting to replicate the severe disability premium or the personal independence Margaret Curran: To the best of her knowledge, can payment; penalises disabled people in residential care the hon. Lady identify two examples of where overlap is homes by removing their DLA mobility component; a problem? Does she think that the review should be penalises disabled people by making them wait six widened to involve disabled people? Does she also think months before they receive the support that they need; that its findings should be published? and creates uncertainty and needless anxiety for the most disabled people in our society by removing their Jenny Willott: I have just made it clear that no automatic entitlement to the new benefit, is it any research has been done in the past, so there has been no wonder that we are opposed to this legislation? evidence up to now. I have absolutely no idea what 839 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 840 evidence the Minister has found, but I am sure that she Several hon. Members rose— will be able to give the House more information on that and answer the hon. Lady’s question. Not being part of Jenny Willott: I give way first to the hon. Member for the research team, I cannot give the hon. Lady any North Antrim (Ian Paisley). examples of overlap, but I am sure that the Minister will be able to provide more information about that later. Ian Paisley: I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who is being very good and lenient with her time. On the issue Margaret Curran: May I ask you to address the of overlapping, which was raised at the start of her second part of my question, which was about the review? comments, I want to point out that the disability living There are serious concerns that the review is not being allowance as currently constructed is a non-means-tested made public and that we do not know its terms of benefit. Overlapping implies that there should now be a reference. I presume that you know its terms of reference, means test. If part or all of someone’s benefit were to be since you support the Government’s proposals. Could taken away, means-testing would be necessary. Is the you perhaps explain them to the House? hon. Lady saying that she will support a provision that would introduce a new means test by stealth? Jenny Willott: I think she means “the hon. Lady”, rather than you, Mr Deputy Speaker. This is obviously Jenny Willott: I do not believe that this is about an issue for the Minister to address later, particularly in means-testing of benefits. It is about looking for sources regard to the terms of reference. I do not believe that it of state support or Government funding for the mobility would have been appropriate for disabled people to take needs of individuals with disability. It is about looking part in the research, because it is my understanding that at the different sources of money to ensure that it is this is an information-gathering exercise— provided evenly to people with disabilities so that their mobility needs are covered. Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab): Shame! Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) Jenny Willott: The hon. Gentleman shouts “Shame”, (LD): I understand where my hon. Friend is coming but this is an information-gathering exercise to obtain from, as she and I are signed up to the same position. evidence on the basis of which a decision can be made. Let me confirm that her position and mine is the one At that point, it will be appropriate for people to be agreed at our party conference only a few months consulted. When we know the evidence base, and what ago—[Interruption.] Let me put it on the record that options are open to the Government, it will clearly be the conference called appropriate to consult. At the moment, the Government are communicating with local authorities to find out “on the Coalition Government not to remove the Mobility Component completely and to ensure sufficient funding for the mobility needs what funding is in place, and disabled people are probably of those who cannot afford to fund their needs themselves” no more aware of that than I am. It would not be appropriate, while gathering that information, to consult. and Afterwards, when we have the evidence on which to “to ensure that any reductions to the Mobility Component are base a decision, it will become appropriate to consult on based on clear evidence that the cost of that support is provided the options. via other funding means.” That is where we stand, so I ask my hon. Friend to Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- confirm that that is why she is making sure that the op): I have to confess that I am astonished to hear the Government will end up standing there, too. hon. Lady suggest that disabled people would have nothing to add to an information-gathering exercise. Jenny Willott: That is exactly the position that I am Would she support postponing the proposals until we putting forward. I am concerned, because clause 83 still have clarity on what the review will involve, to ensure leaves it open for Ministers to cut the mobility component that everyone with a view is able to put their view for those in care homes. As a number of Members have forward? made clear, the concern about that is considerable.

Jenny Willott: The hon. Lady completely misrepresents Dame Anne Begg: I appreciate that the hon. Lady is my words. I absolutely did not say that disabled people trying to get the Government off the hook by supporting have nothing to add to this. I said that the Government this review, but the original proposal came forward in are undertaking an information-gathering exercise so the coalition Government’s first Budget—almost a year that we have an evidence base on which to look at the ago. Is she not as surprised as I am—if not shocked—that options for the Government to take forward. At that the work that she now advocates was not done before point, people with disabilities and others affected would, the proposal was made in the first place? I hope, have an opportunity to be consulted and to participate in discussions. At the moment, it is my understanding that the Government are gathering Jenny Willott: To risk the wrath that has been incurred information to provide the evidence that has been lacking. by some colleagues on my side, I have to confess that I I have to say that I was taken aback to find that the was somewhat surprised about that, but I also think it previous Government had never done research to enable should have been done by the previous Government as us to understand what funding is made available to care well. It is pretty shameful that we have no understanding homes and what is made available to people through of where the funding for these costs has come from. disability living allowance. Providing such evidence is seriously overdue. Several hon. Members rose— 841 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 842

Jenny Willott: I am afraid that I am not taking any consulted on. The Bill simply states that that will be more interventions, as many Members want to participate decided in regulations, which is one reason I tabled an in the debate and I do not want to run out of time. I am amendment requiring them to be subject to an affirmative sure that those who have further comments will attempt resolution. The decisions will be made by regulations, to catch your eye, Mr Deputy Speaker. which means that there is a further decision-making We must not underestimate how important it is for point. The Government will be able to publish their people to be able to get out and about. I appreciate that regulations and their intentions once they have done the those in residential care often do not have as many information gathering and considered the funding situation mobility needs as some people living on their own. For across the board. At that point, I would like to see some example, they do not need to shop regularly for food as broader involvement of people who are affected by it is usually provided, and they often do not need to these decisions. We will then have the information when make arrangements to get to a doctor’s appointment or we make a decision. the hairdresser’s because those services are often provided in the care home. However, they often need to shop for Fiona O’Donnell rose— things other than food—for clothes and personal items— and they need to be able to maintain contact with Jenny Willott: I will give way one more time. friends and family. Younger people in residential care may often be in work and need to travel in and out of Fiona O’Donnell: The hon. Lady is very generous in work as well. They have needs that need to be funded. It giving way. How will this review, report and gathering depends on the disability, but often public transport is of information apply to the devolved Governments of not an option, so people rely on expensive taxis, on the country? How can the Minister possibly influence Motability scooters or on having access to their own social care policy and NHS policy in the devolved vehicle, all of which add significant costs. Governments? It is important that people have independence, keep Jenny Willott: I am afraid that I shall disappoint the up their social lives and live a full and valuable life. That hon. Lady, but that is an issue for the Minister. I do not is not possible on the £22 a week that people in residential know what discussions the Minister has had with the care would be left with if they did not have the mobility devolved Administrations. I am a Member of Parliament element or any other support for their mobility needs. for a Welsh constituency, so the issue clearly affects my Although this part of the Bill is about PIPs, which will constituents, too. I am sure that some discussion is apply only to those who are over 18, I would be grateful going on, but the hon. Lady can ask the Minister to if the Minister could clarify the Government’s intention respond to that question. about extending PIPs to the under-18s, too, and whether the provisions will apply to families and young people A number of other issues are covered by the amendments with disabilities who are under that age. before the House and have already been raised by the hon. Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran), My amendments would ensure that this important including how the Government handle fluctuating issue is decided by affirmative resolution, enabling proper conditions and the assessment requirements for PIPs. parliamentary scrutiny, and that its implementation is We have had a number of debates about fluctuating monitored effectively through the production of a report conditions, not least in a Delegated Legislation Committee after enough time has elapsed to show the impact and yesterday afternoon which was attended by many Members the effect. It is clear to me from the totality of the who are in the Chamber this afternoon. Fluctuating Government’s proposals that affect people with disabilities conditions are hard to manage in the benefits system. that the Government do not intend to restrict the As has been mentioned, Professor Harrington is doing independence of individuals. The move towards personal work on descriptors for the work capability assessment independence payments from disability living allowance for fluctuating and mental health conditions and on goes in quite the opposite direction. We had a number how the assessments can be improved to take them into of debates in Committee about the increased emphasis account. I hope that the Minister can reassure us that on individual needs and independence, and I sometimes the Government are learning the lessons from the mistakes found the Minister’s emphasis on taking every person made in the work capability assessment and that we do as an individual and assessing their individual needs not replicate them when the new PIP assessment is somewhat frustrating. Sometimes in debate it is easier introduced. to consider groups of people, but it is clear that the Minister’s intention is to consider individual needs and Jeremy Corbyn: Will the hon. Lady give way? to take them into account when making decisions, as well as to ensure that individuals have independence. 4.15 pm Stephen Timms: The Minister has said that she does Jenny Willott: I am afraid that I will not, as I am not envisage the results of the review being published. If aware that a lot of people want to speak. I understand the hon. Lady correctly—she is making I flagged up my concerns in Committee about whether some telling points—she envisages the review being there are some people for whom face-to-face assessments published so that there can be consultation. Will she are not appropriate, and I was reassured by the Minister’s confirm that she disagrees with the Minister on that response, as she clearly accepted that they are not point? appropriate for everybody. She intends to allow Jobcentre Plus advisers discretion to consider individual cases and Jenny Willott: I have no idea whether the review will the Government seem to be thinking about taking the be published. I was commenting on the fact that the same approach to the need for ongoing face-to-face options on PIPs and DLA for the future should be assessments. As long as there is discretion and an acceptance 843 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 844 that such assessments are not appropriate for everybody, has been no proper analysis and that it is very difficult I hope that decisions will depend on the discretion and to get any data to suggest that some of what they have common sense of Jobcentre Plus advisers. Will the said is true; that might be the case for individual cases, Minister reconfirm today that the Government are taking but it is not widespread. The fact that the hon. Member a slightly flexible approach? for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott) had to ask for some The final issue that I want to flag up is that of of those data may show that the Government lumbered sudden-onset conditions such as cancer, stroke or accidents, into the whole area without knowing the details, and which the hon. Member for Glasgow East has mentioned. that their proposals were based on some perception of Such conditions are very different from conditions that prejudice, or the need to save money, a point to which I gradually worsen. They do not give people time to shall return. adapt mentally, emotionally or financially to their new What were the criticisms that the Government laid at circumstances and in addition to the trauma of coping the door of DLA? They said there were no regular with diagnosis there are large up-front costs that start reassessments. That is easy to sort. We can put in almost immediately. There might be a sudden loss of regular reassessments for certain people. The Government income and there is the cost of travel to and from said that too many people were getting DLA for life. Is hospital for regular treatments, as well as parking charges that too much of a problem? If a person is quadriplegic and new equipment that is needed. Such costs seem to after a cataclysmic accident, I am not sure they will get be just the sort of thing that disability living allowance better. The reason why many people who at present was designed to fund. depend on DLA are so frightened by the changes is that The change from three to six months before someone they have an award for life; they do not have to worry can apply for the new personal independence payment about more reassessments. They have gone through might hit those people the hardest, because they have to assessments. They know they are profoundly disabled. pay those costs so immediately up front. I understand Anybody looking at them can tell they are profoundly that that group of people form a very small proportion disabled, so why on earth do they yet again have to go of those who are currently on DLA—around 6%, I through an assessment? think—so it would not be expensive to treat them Another criticism of DLA was that some people were differently. There are knock-on implications for that getting it automatically based on their condition. I group, as their carers will not be able to apply for carer’s challenge the Minister to tell us what it is about the allowance unless they have DLA, so both the claimant condition of people who cannot feed themselves, cannot and the carer could lose income. I raised this issue in dress themselves, cannot move from one seated position DWP questions on Monday and the Minister was kind to another, cannot walk or go to the toilet themselves enough to say that the Government are looking into the that means they have to be assessed for their need for issue. I hope that they will look at what can be done to extra costs for care and mobility. I cannot think of a ameliorate the situation for that small and distinct group. reason. Why should there not be an assumption that I welcome the Government’s moves to take into account those individuals have their extra costs for care and concerns about the removal of the DLA mobility mobility covered by DLA? That is what it was all about. component, and although I welcome the decision not to The Government’s main argument was that DLA push ahead with the original proposal to remove it was not well understood. That is not my experience entirely, I think the Bill leaves the door open for that to from talking to people who receive DLA. It was one of happen in future—perhaps not under this Government the few benefits they did understand. DLA was for the but under a future one—so I believe that any changes extra mobility and care costs associated with disability. should pass through the House via affirmative resolution. Compare that to the confusing rules for tax credits, or I also believe that the situation needs to be monitored the in-work benefits or disability premiums associated closely to ensure that we are protecting and enhancing with jobseeker’s allowance, employment and support the lives of some of the most vulnerable in society. allowance or incapacity benefit. We could look at contributory ESA as well. Those are confusing. The Dame Anne Begg: I suspect that many hon. Members one benefit for disabled people that was clear—they will want to speak particularly about the removal of the knew what it was for—was disability living allowance. higher-rate mobility allowance from residential care, so That is what they tell me and I am sure it is what they I shall not talk about that in any detail, but I think it is have told the Government. The vast majority of responses merely the top of a very pernicious iceberg, and the to the Government’s consultation made exactly that proposed amendments attempt to allay our concerns on point: people valued DLA so greatly that they were that. This issue has captured the public imagination frightened they might lose it. because it seems so grossly unfair and because people Another criticism the Government have made of cannot understand what kind of Government would DLA is that the form was too long and complicated. take away the independence of the, by definition, most That would be easy to sort. Make it shorter, make it less disabled people in our community because they happen complicated and maybe put it online. There were solutions. to live in a residential home or, for those whose families Those were the main criticisms of DLA that the might lose access to an adapted vehicle, because they Government have come up with, but none of them happen to go to a residential school. could not have been solved by some changes to the I want to look more widely at the Government’s existing allowance. It did not require the sweeping away reasons for seeing fit to wipe away everything that was of DLA and its replacement with a new benefit, with the DLA and bring in a new benefit called the personal new criteria. If the criteria were out of date, some of independence payment. Let me address the Government’s them could have been changed, but there was and is no analysis, or rather their argument—I should not have need to change all of them. People who depend on said analysis because part of the problem is that there DLA at present as a large part of their income are 845 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 846

[Dame Anne Begg] Dame Anne Begg: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Perhaps I should now speak to amendments 76 and 77, terrified, because they do not know what lies ahead. If which I tabled as an attempt to ensure that fluctuating the system is as bad as, according to the Government, it conditions—mental health problems are often fluctuating is at the moment, those people are worried that whatever conditions—are properly recognised. the Government come up with will not be suitable for Mental health organisations throughout the country their needs. I have to tell the hon. Member for Cardiff are deeply concerned about clause 79, which makes Central that the previous Government did not collect provision about whether an individual will qualify for a data on double-funding mobility allowance in care homes, personal independence payment. The Bill states that the because they were not advocating the removal of DLA question of qualification relates to whether during from that group of people. “every time in the previous 6 months, it is likely that if the The things that are particularly good but often forgotten relevant ability had been assessed at that time that ability would about DLA include the fact that it is an in-work and have been determined to be limited”. out-of-work benefit. That element will become increasingly Mental health charities are worried that someone with a important as the Government proceed with their welfare fluctuating condition would not qualify because they reforms to put work obligations on people with profound would have to be sufficiently ill for qualification at every disabilities. Anyone who is not assessed as being in the point over those six months. Amendments 76 and 77 support group for ESA will have a work obligation. clarify that the condition would not have to be continuous However, if those who end up in the work-related throughout that time. The charities agree with the principle activity group find that they no longer qualify for DLA, of monitoring a person’s condition over time rather it will be all the harder for them to find a job or to do than making a snapshot assessment—they have no problem the work-related activity that the Government expect with that. They say the latter would poorly serve individuals them to do, because the extra financing to make that with fluctuating conditions. This has been especially possible will have been removed. apparent in the experience of people applying for The best thing about DLA was that we had for the employment and support allowance. first time in this country a benefit that followed the 4.30 pm social model of disability, rather than the medical model. There is a worry that the clock will be turned The wording of the Bill suggests that people with back. The Government call their new benefit the personal fluctuating mental health problems or another fluctuating independence payment, but DLA was a personal condition will not qualify if they are not consistently ill independence payment, so they did not need to change for the required length of time. Denying them support the benefit. DLA is personalised and represents what through PIP could have a detrimental effect on their the Government say they want the benefit system to be health and their ability to manage their condition. This because it is a dynamic benefit, which means that it could affect the individual’s ability to stay in work if they helps people to lead an independent life by going out to are employed, or impede their recovery if they are not work, visiting friends and doing all the things that working. Also, it would not accurately capture the impact everyone else takes for granted. Such independence of the condition on an individual’s life. I do not intend includes the ability to live in the community, which can to press my amendments to a Division—we probably be achieved if a person can buy in care and get someone have enough votes—but I want an assurance from the to come in to look after their care needs. All those Minister that fluctuating conditions will be taken into things exist under DLA, so why is there a need to make account and will be recognised. That is a particular worry. a fundamental change to something that was not broken? If the Government are hell-bent on introducing PIP, Why fix something that was working reasonably well? it is important that we get it right. As I just mentioned No one would have complained if the Government had with regard to people with mental health problems, the done a bit of tweaking, but such a fundamental change Government are putting new obligations on disabled makes people especially worried. people of working age. They will have work obligations. The Red Book states that the Government want to They will have to do work-related activity. If PIP is not cut 20% from the DLA budget. That means that the pot there to act as an aid to help someone get into work, the will be 20% smaller, but given the cost of reassessing barriers that exist for all disabled people—such as lack everyone, about which we have heard today, the reduction of access to transport, or the lack of the ability to buy in payments will be more than 20%, because some of in their own care which is flexible enough to allow them the money that would have gone to disabled people so to go to work—become insurmountable barriers. That that they could live their lives will be invested into the means that the Government will not be able to deliver private company that will carry out the reassessments. on their stated aim of getting more and more disabled Given the difficulties of the ESA, there is suspicion people into work. about the accuracy of the reassessments. Even though It is particularly important that the right people and Professor Harrington has made recommendations, there those with severe disabilities get PIP because, as we heard are still fears and worries about the way in which the during Prime Minister’s questions today, the Government work capability assessment is working, and disabled are proposing to limit contributory employment support people’s experience of that assessment makes them allowance to a year. That will affect anyone who is not especially worried about what will happen under PIP. in the support group and who has cancer—that has been used as an example, but it could be someone in the Fiona O’Donnell: Does my hon. Friend agree that early stages of multiple sclerosis or with a condition anxiety is especially high among people with mental such as Crohn’s disease—and who is quite ill, but not health problems? We have recently heard reports of a terminally ill or ill enough to go into the support group, number of suicides, so we need to be able to offer people and not so disabled that anyone looking at them would reassurance about the process. say it was unfair to expect that person to work. 847 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 848

Large numbers of people with conditions that are Dame Anne Begg: That is exactly what I would like difficult to manage and make work difficult will be the Minister to clarify. I do not know whether there will assessed as being able to look for work some time in the be contributory ESA for those in the support group, future and will therefore be in the work-related activity whether it will be income related, or whether everyone group. They will lose their contributory ESA after a will get it. If someone lives in a household with a year. I know that many such people in my constituency working partner who earns £20,000 or £30,000 a year will not get any benefit afterwards because they will and then goes into the support group, having not worked probably live in a household that has other income. before that and so having not made national insurance That need not be a large income, but just enough to put contributions in their own right, will they get any ESA? them above income support level, which is not particularly I am not sure they will, because ESA is an income high. There is much talk about caps on benefits, but if a replacement benefit, and of course to get such a benefit household is living on income-related benefits, it does they need to have made national insurance contributions not get a lot of money. Those people do not get £26,000. or have a low income. They get an awful lot less than that. If somebody is earning more than £10,000, there is a good chance that Stephen Timms: My understanding is that, even though they will not get any benefit. they are in the support group, if they have not met the In a constituency such as mine, which is reasonably contribution conditions they will not get the contributory affluent and wants people in work, there is a good benefit. Perhaps the Minister will confirm that when chance that there will be a partner in the household who she responds. will be working. At the end of the year, the cancer patient or the person in the early stages of multiple Dame Anne Begg: That is my understanding also. sclerosis will lose their contributory ESA if their condition There will be a group of people who will have paid the is not bad enough to put them into the support group. If contributions in the two previous years and who will go that happened now, the one thing they would have is straight into the support group and get to keep the their DLA, but in future they may not have their PIP. benefit for life, but those with slowly degenerative diseases They will have no independent income whatever. That is and those who come from better-off households will get particularly worrying. nothing at all. It is that kind of unfairness and that sense of a two-tier system that frightens people. Even more worrying is the fact that the Government have set up an unfairness in that some people will be Maria Miller: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. able to keep their contributory ESA and others will not. Although it is very interesting to hear about the ESA, it If someone has a cataclysmic accident and becomes actually is relevant not to PIP, but to another section of quadriplegic, they will go straight into the support the Bill. group. If they have worked all their life up to that point and paid their national insurance, they will get their Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I am sure contributory ESA, as far as I can gather, for life. that there will be a conclusion in which the two points However, if someone falls out of work because they join together. I am not taking that as a point of order. have just been diagnosed with MS that is quite far advanced but not far enough advanced to put them into Dame Anne Begg: My point is that if the Government the support group, they might be in the work group. take contributory ESA away from this group of people Because they have MS, they might find it very difficult and then change the criteria so that they no longer to get a job. That was why they fell out of their previous qualify for DLA or the new PIP, those people will end job and it would be difficult to get back into work. up with no independent income at all. That is the MS in its early stages can be a fluctuating condition. connection. We cannot look at the Government’s proposals For the first year, that individual will receive contributory to remove DLA and introduce PIP in isolation, because ESA, and the next year they will not because they have they are putting disabled people under all sorts of other a working partner, but what will happen in year three or obligations. If we look at the benefits in isolation, we four when they are reassessed and go into the support will get into trouble, and that is what leads to the fears group? Will they get their contributory ESA back? I do of disabled people, because many of them, particularly not think that they will, because they will not have those with more profound disabilities who are trying to made national insurance contributions for two years, live independently in the community, have complex having been out of work for that time. Perhaps that funding packages that they have put together to make Minister could clarify that. things work for them. They are dependent on the personal There is a danger in all this of setting up a two-tier care element of DLA for their care and on housing system for contributory benefit, which would be particularly benefit to pay for their rent; they are dependent on local unfair on those with slowly degenerative diseases, who government facility grants to adapt their houses; and fall out of work some time before they are classified as they are dependent on the mobility element of DLA to severely disabled and before the work obligation is provide them with transport or, for many of them, with taken off their shoulders. cars through the Motability scheme. These are complex packages, and if the Government interfere with some of them the whole edifice could collapse. That helps to George Hollingbery: Perhaps I misunderstand the explain why there is so much fear among people with hon. Lady, but I think that I am right in saying that if disabilities about what the Government are doing. They those individuals are reassessed a year or two later and feel that the Government are not seeing the whole found to qualify for the support group, contributory picture—that they are seeing different pieces of the ESA is no longer relevant as they will automatically be jigsaw but not putting it together or looking at the in the support group in any case. Is that right? impact that those pieces will have on individuals. 849 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 850

[Dame Anne Begg] Disability living allowance, particularly the mobility element, acts not only as a passport but as a proxy for Part of the problem with universal credit and with all sorts of other things. Local authorities and organisations PIP is that we do not yet know the criteria, the payments such as railway companies and cinemas use an individual’s or who will qualify for what, so it is impossible for qualification for upper-rate mobility allowance as a individuals to sit down with all the new regulations, proxy for the fact that they must be disabled and which nobody has seen because they have not been therefore qualify for a disabled railcard, a disabled published, and work things out, saying, “Right, in my cinema ticket or a blue badge—or, in my local authority, condition, I know I will get that, that and that, and I a green badge, for which we also have to pay 20 quid a can add that together and that will then tell me whether year, so it is not as though we are getting it for nothing. I am going to be better off or worse off under the new That means that people do not have to be assessed time proposals.” It is difficult to judge the situation, because and again, which makes things much easier. For many we do not have that detail. people, the knowledge that they have been assessed and qualify for upper-rate mobility allowance is more valuable Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): The hon. than the money. I would not say that the money is not Lady is doing the House a great service in teasing out important—of course it is—but access to a blue badge the complexities, and in illustrating just exactly what is with reasonable ease is also incredibly valuable. and is not known. Is not that at the root of many problems? How can we proceed with these measures when our constituents have so many unanswered questions? 4.45 pm They have asked me, but I am unable to relay with any certainty what is going to happen to them, so surely the I hope that the Government will look again at how issues that have been raised deserve full clarification. they are introducing PIP.I will support my hon. Friends’ Certainly, what has been illustrated as definitely going amendment on the withdrawal of the upper-rate mobility to happen demands that the amendments be carried. PIP from those in residential homes. I hope that the Minister can calm some of the fears that disabled Dame Anne Begg: Much of Monday’s debate was people are experiencing. They fear that if the Government about the fact that the regulations for PIP, for housing do not get this right, then instead of being able to get benefit and for universal credit do not exist, so it is out of their homes and go to work, they will be stuck difficult to judge exactly what will happen to individuals. there and have a life that is not as fulfilling and worth while as it is at the moment. There is also a fear among disabled people, because the Government sometimes take a simplistic view of what a disability might be. Disability living allowance Maria Miller: It is absolutely right that we have a was quite clear, because it was to cover the extra costs of serious, considered and detailed debate on the reform of disability, but one worry is that, under the PIP proposals, one of the most important benefits that we have, not aids will be taken into consideration. The implication is only in relation to disabled people but within the whole that, if someone has an aid, they do not have the extra array of benefits. It also represents £12 billion of taxpayers’ costs associated with their disability—that somehow money, so they would expect us to have a good and the aid will miraculously take away those costs. detailed debate. It has been said—the Minister did so in front of the I do not like to take issue with the hon. Member for Work and Pensions Committee—that, if a wheelchair-using Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg), not least because Olympic athlete has a university degree, it is reasonable she is Chairman of the Select Committee—I had the to place some work obligations on them. That might be pleasure of appearing before her this morning—but if it the case, but being an Olympic athlete who needs a was easy to change the current system of DLA by wheelchair does not take away the need for an adapted simplifying the claim form, making it easier to understand car. They still need the car, the wider parking space, to and streamlining its administration, then I am rather build the ramps to get into their house, the adapted surprised that the previous Government did not address shower that the local authority’s facilities grant often those issues before. In fact, perhaps it is not I who take does not pay for, and the adapted bathroom. issue with the hon. Lady but Opposition Front Benchers, In many cases, therefore, aids and adaptations do not given their stated position. The right hon. Member for take away the need for extra money. In fact, people with East Ham (Stephen Timms) has said: disabilities sometimes need the extra money to run “we recognise that it is right to reform the DLA and accept that it some of those aids, such as an electric wheelchair and is perfectly sensible to use a medical test as the basis for assessment”.– the extra costs that that entails, or an electric buggy that –[Official Report, Welfare Reform Public Bill Committee, 10 May gets them around the shops. Rarely are such aids supplied 2011; c. 825.] by the NHS or, indeed, by the local authority, and that I have to take issue with the idea of a medical test, but is why DLA was such a good benefit—because people the right hon. Gentleman obviously has his own reasons could choose how they used it in order to fulfil their for saying that. The hon. Member for Glasgow East needs and lead an independent life. (Margaret Curran) has said: If disabled people have work obligations placed on “There is no doubt, and it has been plainly stated, that there is them, they will need extra money for travel costs. I a case for reform. The Opposition and I are clear about that.”–– could be as fit as possible and have the best super-duper [Official Report, Welfare Reform Public Bill Committee, 10 May wheelchair in the world, but with the best will in the 2011; c. 767.] world I am still not going to be able to get on the I think she said that when she was in the Scottish underground. It just will not happen, so we need to Parliament. [Interruption.] She said it recently as well. ensure that we get PIP right, and to ensure that it There is clearly a growing consensus on the need for enables disabled people and does not hinder them. reform. 851 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 852

When DLA is not getting the right support to the have to have a face-to-face assessment. That is a broad right people and £600 million is being paid in overpayments, category, which covers a wide range of conditions that and there are £190 million of underpayments—hon. affect people in many ways. Although we accept that Members will be equally concerned about that—there is not everybody who has a severe mental impairment will a clear need for some fundamental changes. I hope that have to undergo a face-to-face consultation, for others Labour Members who are feeling shaky on the need for it will make a great deal of sense. For that reason, I reform can remind themselves that their party has also cannot accept the amendment. called for it in the past. Perhaps the position has changed, I deal now with amendments 44 to 47, 76 and 77. I but those on the Front Bench have certainly not indicated am grateful to the Opposition for agreeing that PIP is a that today. long-term disability benefit, and that there should be an expectation that there will be limitations for a period of Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) not less than 12 months. The proposed qualifying period (Lab): Will the Minister give way? will allow us carefully to assess someone’s ability to carry out a range of activities once their condition has Maria Miller: I hope the right hon. Gentleman will settled down and potentially once the effects of treatment forgive me if I do not take many interventions, because and rehabilitation have begun. PIP will be a valuable, I am very conscious of the time and of the desire of universal, tax-free benefit—that is carried forward from Opposition Front Benchers to get through the selection DLA—and it will be paid irrespective of whether a list. Many questions have already been asked and I will person is in or out of work. I emphasise that point for deal with them as I go through my remarks. the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), Before I respond to the issues that have been raised, I who conflated it with an out-of-work benefit. It is our will set out the three basic principles that are central to view that the additional financial support that it brings our reform. The personal independence payment will should start only once other support mechanisms have provide support for long-term needs. It is one of a wide played their part and once the financial burden becomes range of benefits that are on offer. It will be based on an onerous for an individual over the long term, regardless assessment of the impact of a health condition on an of their income. individual and their ability to lead an independent life, I can reassure Members that the Government have rather than just on the condition. Above all, it will be been listening to the arguments regarding the return to fair. a three-month qualifying period, and we will continue Amendment 43 seeks to exclude individuals from the to listen and talk regularly to disabled people and their face-to-face consultations in the new assessment process representative organisations. We recognise that for some for PIP. DLA relies on a self-assessment form and I will people there may be additional financial burdens at the not go through the details of why that does not work. outset, but we have to consider the matter within the One of my constituents had to take a four-hour course ambit of the wide range of other support that is already to learn how to fill out the DLA form, which shows its available during the early months. ineffectiveness. One of our key proposals to ensure that the benefit has a more consistent and transparent assessment Sheila Gilmore: Will the Minister give way? is that most people will have a face-to-face consultation with a trained independent assessor. The consultation Maria Miller: Will the hon. Lady forgive me if I do will allow the individual to play an active part in the not give way now? Perhaps if I do not cover her point, process, rather than passively filling in a form, and put she can intervene on me later. across their views on how their health condition or The hon. Member for Aberdeen South has tabled impairment affects their everyday life. amendments 76 and 77, about how we treat fluctuating We recognise the importance of ensuring that the conditions. That is absolutely an important part of assessment process is sensitive and proportionate. The ensuring that we have a successful assessment. The use Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, of the term “every time” in the Bill has caused some my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell concern, I believe unnecessarily. I hope that I can allay (Chris Grayling), has a great deal of expertise in that her concerns about it. area from his work on the work capability assessment. Our approach will be to have two main components Let me be absolutely clear that when it comes to PIP, to the assessment. First, we will consider whether an some people will not be required to attend a face-to-face individual is able to carry out an activity, and whether consultation. I was clear about that in Committee and I they are able to do so reliably, repeatedly, safely and in a reiterate it now. For such people, the assessment will be timely manner. If they cannot, it will be considered that carried out on the basis of evidence that has already they cannot complete that activity at all. been gathered. Such decisions will be at the discretion Secondly, the assessment will not be a snapshot of of the individual triaging the assessment as it goes any one day, as I am sure the hon. Lady would expect. It through. will consider an individual’s ability to carry out activities Amendment 43 would undermine one of the key over a period of time—we suggest a year. It will consider principles of PIP. It would effectively label people by impacts that apply for the majority of the time. We will health condition or impairment, rather than treat them determine whether somebody has met the required period as individuals. The disability organisations with which I condition by considering whether they would be likely am working day in, day out on the development of the to meet the requirements of the assessment if they were assessment and the overall benefit would feel that to be assessed at any point over the period in question, which a step back, not a step forward. The impact of a will effectively create hypothetical assessments across condition can vary greatly. Under the amendment, that period. We envisage that the assessment will not somebody with a severe mental impairment would not consider the effects of a disability on just one day, 853 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 854

[Maria Miller] Cathy Jamieson: Given the concerns about the term “overlap”, will the Minister be absolutely specific about because the same principle will apply across the whole what she means by it? For example, is it overlap if a care period. That means that we will consider an extended home uses a minibus to transport residents? period of time, and that we will still apply the “majority of time” test. I think she will be reassured by that. As Maria Miller: Obviously we are looking at whether such, individuals will be able to meet the required an individual has access to support, not at whether a condition even if their disability fluctuates over the care home has access to it. I could not make it plainer specified period. We intend to include the treatment of than to say that we do not intend to remove somebody’s fluctuating conditions in the next iteration of the assessment ability to get out and about. That is a plain and categorical regulations, which is due to be published in the autumn. statement, and the hon. Lady can interpret it as she I hope that provides some reassurance. chooses—I know that I interpret it as a plain and clear I turn to amendments 66, 41 and 42. We have already statement. Support for disabled individuals should be announced that we will not remove the mobility component available in the social care packages that are available of DLA from people in residential care from 2012, as on the ground. If that support is not in place, there is no originally planned. We have also said that we will re-examine overlapping benefit. its position within the personal independence payment, which is precisely what we are doing. When that work is Cathy Jamieson rose— complete we will make a final decision, in the context of the full reform of DLA and the introduction of PIP. Maria Miller: Will the hon. Lady forgive me for moving on and making some more comments? Margaret Curran rose— Opposition Members will not be surprised to hear that I feel strongly that the Government have made our Maria Miller: Perhaps the hon. Lady can let me finish position clear on this matter. and see whether I have covered her point. We will treat care home residents in exactly the same Margaret Curran: I cannot understand this. If, as the way as any other recipient of DLA. The views that have Government say, they are not removing the DLA mobility been expressed during, and in the lead-up to, today’s component from people in residential care, why do they debate have been vigorous and made people’s positions need the Bill to give them the power to do so? clear. That is why we are not introducing the change in 2012 and are undertaking a review of the practical Maria Miller: We are not doing that. We are reviewing issues on the ground. We will not produce a review the situation. As the hon. Lady will of course know, we report, because we are not undertaking an official review. need provisions in the Bill to take account of other We are simply collecting information about the areas of overlap within PIP—it was the same under the implementation of the policy at the moment, as I am previous Administration—so that we do not pay certain sure Labour Members did when they were in government elements of the benefit to people in various types of to inform their policy decisions. accommodation. Any change or refinement will be dealt with in regulations, which she will be able to view for Sheila Gilmore: Will the Minister give way? herself.

Maria Miller: I will give way briefly. Duncan Hames: I have heard very clearly the Minister’s assurances in her remarks so far, but I am at a loss as to Sheila Gilmore: It is very important that the Minister why the Bill refers specifically to residence in a care clarifies exactly what is intended. Does she still intend home as a condition for clause 83(1)(b). I am encouraged at some point, perhaps after a review or some information by what she has said, but I do not understand why that gathering, to treat the people affected as a group and provision remains in the Bill. decide whether they are entitled to the benefit, or will each individual case be assessed? If it is the latter, how Maria Miller: My hon. Friend will know that we are will the information be gathered? looking at this matter in some detail, and at the evidence on the ground. If we do not feel that an overlap is in Maria Miller: If the hon. Lady will listen to my full play, we will take the appropriate action. He can rest remarks, I hope that she will be satisfied. We have made assured that any further action that we take in that it clear that we want to remove overlaps, and that we do regard will be defined in regulations and subject to not ever want to limit severely disabled people’s ability further debate. to get out and about, so we will not do what she describes. Amendment 73, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott) spoke, would require Cathy Jamieson rose— the Secretary of State to produce a report on the impact of regulations made under clause 83 within a year of Maria Miller: Will the hon. Lady forgive me if I try to their being laid. In the light of the explanation that I complete my remarks? I will give way if I have not have just given, considering whether to produce a report answered any questions. I will ensure that when we on the impact of regulations made under the clause introduce PIP from April 2013, disabled people are could be premature. I therefore hope that she does not treated absolutely fairly, regardless of their place of press the amendment to a Division. residence. We do not intend to undertake what the hon. Similarly, on amendment 74, on regulations, I repeat Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) was talking my assurances that we take extremely seriously the about. concerns expressed earlier about care homes, and we are 855 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 856 committed to responding to them in the right way. The I hope that I have started to give hon. Members a House would expect the Government to look at the flavour of the scale of work that is being undertaken by facts of how a policy would be implemented before they the Department in putting forward a new benefit of this move forward with it, which is exactly what we are scale. I hear the loud reiteration of many of the arguments doing. The amendment would make regulations applying that I have had with disabled people and disabled to the payment of the mobility component of PIP people’s organisations over the previous months in hon. subject to the affirmative resolution in the first instance. Members’ comments today. I am sure they will be We spoke at length about that in Committee, and I do reassured that disabled people and disabled people’s not want to debate again whether a resolution should organisations are at the heart of the development of be affirmative or negative. We are subject to the scrutiny our assessment, which is now fully available for people of Parliament in this. I would like to return to the to look at and comment on online. Some of the commitment that I gave the hon. Member for Glasgow amendments proposed today are wholly inconsistent East in Committee when I said that I would reflect on with the principles that I have set out for our reform of whether other regulations should be subject to the PIP, while others are unnecessary. I hope therefore that affirmative procedure. I am happy to reiterate that, but the hon. Member for Glasgow East will withdraw the at the moment I do not think that we need to go further. amendment.

Stephen Timms: The hon. Member for Cardiff Central Jeremy Corbyn: I will be brief because many other (Jenny Willott) argued that when the review has been hon. Members wish to speak, and under the timetabling carried out and the Government have a proposal, it motion we have to conclude by 6 pm, which is very should at least be consulted on before it is put into inadequate given the seriousness of the issues. I shall effect. Will the Minister at least accept that point? speak specifically to amendments 43, 76 and 77. Amendment 43 was tabled by my Front Bench colleagues Maria Miller: We are not producing a report to and I am happy to support it. I have added my name to consult on. What we will do is make our position clear, it and I hope that they have noted that. Amendments 76 and then there will be the opportunity for people to give and 77 were tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for us their views on that. Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg). Finally, I would like to speak to amendment 60. I This morning, I was at a commendable place known believe that the intention of the amendment is to ensure as Centre 404 in Islington, which provides support and that the new assessment for PIP is working effectively activity for those with physical disabilities and learning before it is used to reassess the existing disability living difficulties, as well as support for their carers and families. allowance caseload. I can reassure the hon. Member for It has been going for 60 years and is a very successful Glasgow East that it is our intention to do that. But I and effective organisation. The large numbers of people can go further than that—the Government are committed there this morning were discussing the introduction of to ensuring that the new assessment is working effectively PIPs and the issues surrounding carers week. Before we before it is used for any individuals, new claimants go into the details of the amendments, we should think or not. for a moment about the enormous amount of work done by carers, who are inadequately recompensed and Dame Anne Begg: Related to that point, although it is save the economy vast sums of money. If they were they slightly different, I wonder whether the Minister can not doing this work and giving up their careers and lives allay the fears of people with Motability cars. Some of to care for those who desperately need their help and them could sign a new lease this month and be reassessed support, that care would simply not be provided and for PIP before the end of that lease, so they might lose the costs to the state would be far greater, so we should the mobility element of DLA and therefore lose their recognise the economic contribution they make in a car. What would happen in such cases? decent and humane way. The Minister said that I conflated the question of Maria Miller: I had a meeting with Motability yesterday jobseeker’s allowance interviews with PIPs. In a sense I to talk about these issues, which was one of many did, because I was drawing attention to how people meetings that I and officials have had with it. We will were dragged in for interview. For example, a lady told look at the issue in great detail. Motability provides a me—she is a much respected member of the community fabulous service to disabled people and we will ensure active on these issues—that her doubly incontinent that the issues that the hon. Lady mentions are addressed. adult daughter, who has learning difficulties, was told to go to a jobcentre for a jobseeker’s allowance work Cathy Jamieson: Will the Minister give way? interview. It is expensive, unpleasant, wasteful, stressful for everyone concerned and an utter and total waste Maria Miller: If the hon. Lady will forgive me, we are of time, and considerable damage and humiliation is running very short of time. caused to the individual and their family. That is why Amendment 60 would have the unwelcome effect of amendment 43, which would exempt those with prescribed allowing the automatic transfer of existing DLA claims medical conditions, would be a sensible, important and on to PIP without any review of entitlement. PIP is a useful change to the Bill. new benefit, with new entitlement criteria and a new The Disability Alliance described to me how PIPs are assessment of individual need. To transfer people to likely to come in and how the assessments will take PIP automatically without first determining whether place, and the word that kept recurring was “continual”— they are eligible for the benefit would be inherently continual prompting, continual help, continual assistance, unfair and would perpetuate the failings of the current continual support—which is interesting, because a person system. I cannot therefore accept that amendment. with a sporadic mental health difficulty does not need 857 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 858

[Jeremy Corbyn] Rustington—which is a Royal Air Force benevolent fund home that is dual registered. Part of it counts as a absolutely continual help and support, yet they do need hospital, part of it counts as a home and part of it help and support on a continuing basis. Do they then counts as a residence. Incidentally, “residential homes” lose out on PIPs? are not defined in the legislation; rather, it talks about “care homes”. Stephen Lloyd: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that In Worthing, in the other part of my constituency, that definition also perfectly describes people with multiple there is Gifford house—the Queen Alexandra hospital sclerosis, which is a fluctuating condition? Someone home—which is not just for former service personnel, with multiple sclerosis might need very little support but for many others. Although I have not had one day, but literally within 24 hours might require representations from them, I do not want to exclude substantial support. them from consideration. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Minister for kindly coming to St Bridget’s—the Jeremy Corbyn: Absolutely.My hon. Friend the Member Leonard Cheshire home—among her many visits. I pay for Aberdeen South pointed out that there are some tribute to the people who live there, their families and conditions that although not terminal or immediately my hon. Friend the Minister, because it was one of the life threatening are nevertheless very debilitating. MS best meetings that I have seen for a long time. fluctuates in its intensity and the intensity of care and support needed. I trust my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Minister and those working with People with a long-term, continual and severe disability them to come up with the right answer. My preference is should be exempt, and should not be forced to go for amendment 42 to be agreed to, and then for the through this interview process. In an intervention on my Government to come forward with their solution to the hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (Margaret problem after they have received the result of the review. Curran), who sits on the Front Bench, I raised concerns They can then come back, either here or in another about the costs of taking people in for interview, refusing place, and make an adjustment if they choose to do so. them and then putting them through an appeals process, At the moment, however, the way I read the legislation only for them to end up, months later, exactly where is that someone whose residence happens to be in, say, they started—with lots of costs, lots of time, lots of St Bridget’s—this is not exclusive to St Bridget’s or humiliation and lots of waste at the end of it. Leonard Cheshire homes generally—could easily be Amendment 43 would make a pretty appalling Bill very excluded. slightly better by recognising that those with permanent and long-term conditions should not have to go through I shall not make the sort of speech that I might make this process. I therefore hope that the House will recognise in opposition, about how the Henry VIII clause in the amendment’s importance and be prepared to pass it clause 83(4)(e) allows today. “such other services as may be prescribed” to be covered, nor shall I go on about subsections (5) or 5.15 pm (6), which would allow almost anybody to be divorced Sir Peter Bottomley: Whether or not amendment 43 under this legislation. However, I believe that we can is needed, I am quite sure that the officials and others trust the Government and that they are setting about who do the assessments would not expect people with this in a way that is rational. However, unless the those conditions to be able to go to work. I do not think legislation is amended or we receive other assurances, that this would be a great problem in practice; however, this is not legislation that this House ought to pass. there is always a problem at the boundary. Dorothy Sayers, in her book “Unpopular Opinions”, When I was getting on the Jubilee line this lunchtime distinguishes between the English—by which she meant I met a young man in a wheelchair—in fact, he turned the British—and, say, the French by saying that whereas out not to be that young, because 20 years ago he was they believe in equality, we believe in fairness. There are helping to build the Jubilee line. He said, “What do you currently three issues where fairness concerns me, and do?” “I work at the House of Commons,” I replied. this is one of them. Another is the question of those “Are there any jobs there?” he asked. “650,” I said. women born in the mid-1950s losing more than a year’s “They come up every five years.” He said, “I’m a cook.” pension, and another is overseas pensioners in the old “There’s no reason why a cook can’t be a Member of dominions or elsewhere who cannot get pension increases. Parliament as well,” I said. I did not ask him whether he We have to take those issues one by one. I believe that lived at home, in a hospital or in a residential care the Government will solve the problem of the extra home, or whether his residence was in a home with unfairness for those women born in the 1950s. I want others. the Government to find the solution to the problem that Earlier this afternoon, I spoke indirectly—I will now we are discussing in this debate, and later we can come speak directly—about St Bridget’s in Rustington, the to the overseas pensioners. place mentioned in the first line of the second verse of On the subject of this debate, why should we necessarily “The Gnu Song” by Michael Flanders. For those with risk solving the so-called overlap by taking away the long memories, “The Gnu Song” comes when he is higher-level mobility component, rather than taking talking about someone parking a car across his dropped away what the county council might otherwise provide, curb with “GNU” on the registration plate. There are which is a far smaller amount? I met a woman in a people in Rustington who live in their own homes, and wheelchair, like the man I met on the underground—he others who also live in their own homes, but who share said that he was interested in politics, so I gave him it with others. The definitional problem is just as great yesterday’s Hansard to cheer him up—who wanted to as it might be at the Princess Marina home—again in go to her father’s birthday party and then attend a 859 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 860 college course. Those two journeys by themselves, at the themselves. It is not a question of not dealing with that. subsidised rate of the St Bridget’s minibus, would have As a result of the Government’s proposals, people who exhausted her money if she had not had the mobility live in residential homes have experienced uncertainty, allowance. inconsistency and pledges being reneged on. Today, Obviously people’s circumstances vary, but rather when we are being asked to make a specific decision on than make a long speech—we have heard rather too a Bill that will impact on those people, we have yet many of those this afternoon—let me end by saying again heard a series of vague statements from the that if amendment 42 comes to a vote, I shall vote for it. Minister that mean absolutely nothing. I trust that the Government will come back and make To be fair to the Minister, she is not alone. The things plain in legislation, rather than our having to rely Secretary of State is equally culpable, as is the Prime on positive resolutions on statutory instruments or the Minister. results of the consultation or assessment that they are currently undertaking. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? Mr Tom Clarke: I very much regret that that Minister did not give way to me on the one occasion that I asked Mr Clarke: No, I will not. I should like to carry on. her to do so, particularly because I had planned to ask her to make an apology. I also invite the Secretary of The Prime Minister has given contradictory statements State—if he would just listen to the debate for a to the House on this issue. In January, he said that moment—to join in making that apology to the 80,000 “our intention is very clear: there should be a similar approach for people living in residential homes who have been threatened people who are in hospital and for people who are in residential care homes. That is what we intend to do, and I will make sure since the comprehensive spending review with the removal that it happens.”—[Official Report, 12 January 2011; Vol. 521, of the mobility element of their disability living allowance. c. 282.] I first raised this matter in a debate in Westminster He has been questioned on the issue at Prime Minister’s Hall on 30 November. The Minister responded to that Question Time on four or five times. On 23 March, debate, so she cannot claim that she did not know what when my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition the issues were. In a moment, I shall talk about the asked him whether there were plans to push through remarkable review that very few people know anything this proposal, he said: about. People living in residential homes, and their “The short answer is that we are not.”—[Official Report, Members of Parliament, can tell her exactly what the 23 March 2011; Vol. 525, c. 944.] situation is, even in the absence of a review. We do not like the idea that 80,000 people have been led up to the Despite that, and despite what we have heard again top of the hill and marched down again as a result of today—I repeat that I found it completely unconvincing— the various approaches of the coalition Government. the intention remains in clause 83 of the Bill that we are being asked to support. Jim Shannon: Does the right hon. Gentleman think There is also the Red Book. Towards the end of the that this review has a pre-determined conclusion? Is he Budget debate—this has been going on for a long time, as concerned as the majority of Members are that it is as I said earlier—I tried to intervene on the Chief only paying lip service to the issues and that it will Secretary to the Treasury. Why did he not give way? He therefore not deliver what we want to see happening? did not, but there is at least consistency from Ministers in that respect when it comes to me. He did not give way. Mr Clarke: I hope to come to that point later. I welcome the fact that hon. Members from Northern Charlie Elphicke: Will the right hon. Gentleman give Ireland have played such an excellent part in these way? debates, both on 30 November and since. The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) made an Mr Clarke: I am talking about Ministers. The Chief intervention on that occasion, and his arguments were Secretary did not give way, because I was going to ask as sound then as they are today. The Minister has him whether in the Budget vote we were being asked to virtually no support for her position. In a moment, I support the page in the Red Book that took more than shall discuss the disability organisations. £470 million away from the people we are discussing today or a section that said we were going to have a Naomi Long: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree review. Answer came there none. We have had statements; that one of the huge disappointments of the process is we have had a Budget; we have had the Prime Minister’s that, despite the fact that hon. Members as well as comments; and we have had the Bill that is being people outside the House and local charities initially thrown at us today— yet 80,000 people still do not supported the principle of welfare reform, they are still know what the future holds for them. That is wholly unable to support the Bill, even at this late stage, because unacceptable. of the lack of detail and assurance that it offers? As a result of the measures, 80,000 people will suffer. People on higher rate DLA mobility stand to lose out Mr Clarke: The hon. Lady makes a very good point. by £51.40 a week, which will impact on their ability to The people who know the most about DLA know exercise independence and choice—things that we are that it is very difficult to secure. Claims have been made, told again and again by the Government they support if not by Members on the Government Benches then when it comes to community care. certainly by newspapers that support the Government, that the system is being abused, but the people who Charlie Elphicke: Will the right hon. Gentleman give know about abuse are those who experience DLA for way? 861 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 862

Mr Clarke: No, I am not giving way, so the hon. have not even been told that in the context of this Gentleman might just as well relax. If he had spoken to mysterious review. It is a dangerous precedent to replace as many people in residential care as I have, he might benefits with social care provision, particularly when not be so willing to defend the indefensible. social care eligibility criteria have been tightened so that The denial of independence in this proposal means more and more people stand to slip through the net. that people will not be able to pay for buses; they will Let me turn now to the much-promised review. The not be able to go to bingo or to football matches. In my Government announced that they would review the constituency, a couple will not even be able to meet each proposals and it was hoped that that would offer greater other, yet the Minister had the effrontery to use the clarity. Such clarity did not emerge today. The review is word “fairness” in presenting her reply. internal, within a Department; it is not transparent; and Despite what the Minister had to say, we know that it has no terms of reference. There will be no reports to disability organisations continue to express grave concerns this House of which I am aware about what it actually about the proposals. Indeed, 40 organisations collaborated does. Regardless of the review, all that has happened is to compile the “Don’t limit mobility” and the “DLA a six-month delay to the implementation of the proposal. mobility: sorting the facts from the fiction” reports, No disabled people who stand to be affected have been which not only outlined the negative impact of the consulted and the findings will not be made public. measures on disabled people, but explained why the What sort of review is that? Is the House seriously Government’s rationale behind them is simply incorrect. expected to support that? On Monday, we heard the Minister refer again to We are being asked to decide on an issue about which organisations dealing with disability. Let us go through we do not have the full facts. Even when the Government them: Mencap, RADAR, Scope, the United Kingdom come to a decision, there will be no scope for an Disabled People’s Council and People First. Again and informed discussion, because the details will not be in again, those organisations have sought to highlight the the public domain. Although the review of the reforms failings of DLA—yes, they have said that. However, if in the Health and Social Care Bill was far from perfect, the Minister is going to quote them to justify the at least it enabled scrutiny, public participation and Government’s actions—she is entitled to use these transparency—something that is certainly not taking organisations’ views—she must also be willing to accept place in this review. their view that they are utterly opposed to the proposals. Given what we know, these proposals are in all candour I wonder what the Government think of the Social absolutely cruel and stand to the disadvantage of tens Security Advisory Committee, which is an equally important of thousands of vulnerable people. No further clarity organisation. Its view was known to the Minister at an has emerged today to suggest otherwise and one reason early stage. We should remember that this is a very I shall support amendments 41 and 42 is that the important, heavyweight viewpoint: Government have been given so many opportunities—from the debate in November to the Budget debate and from “We consider the proposal to remove the mobility component questions in the House to this debate today—to make from people in residential care should not go ahead. This measure will substantially reduce the independence of disabled people their position clear, but they have failed abysmally to do who are being cared for in residential accommodation, which so. I am therefore obliged to reach the conclusion that goes against the stated aim of the reform of DLA to support these welfare reforms are not meant to take us forward, disabled people to lead independent and active lives.” they are not part of a progressive society and they are Why are the Government rejecting that crucial view? not addressing the real problems of the millennium. They are taking us back to the ’20s and the ’30s. The What do we know about the Government’s plans? We expression “Out of sight, out of mind” came into my are entitled to ask that question when we are being head again and again during today’s debate. asked to support this Bill at what is virtually the twelfth hour. We know that they claim that there are overlaps in Mark Durkan rose— funding for mobility support for people in residential care, but we do not have the evidence to back up that Mr Clarke: I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman, claim. By seeking to remove the payment of the DLA because he has shown an interest in these matters. mobility component to such individuals in order to avoid any possible overlap, the Government are shifting Mark Durkan: I thank my right hon. Friend for the burden of funding those mobility needs on to local giving way and commend him on his contribution. Is authorities. As we have heard—some of us from Scotland not the situation he describes not even more grotesquely heard it yesterday from representatives of the Convention surreal when one considers that, whatever form the of Scottish Local Authorities—local government simply review takes, people in local government and those does not have the resources. It is quite absurd to say that running care homes are being questioned by the the Government will cut away this funding and that Government not about the funding crisis undermining local councils will make up the gap, when they are the financial certainty for those care homes, which has telling us again and again that they simply do not have people suffocating with worry and dread about what the resources. will happen to them, to their relatives and to the staff, but in pursuit of a mythical notion that duplicate 5.30 pm payments are being made in respect of the mobility component and contracts with care homes? Should not What is more, we do not know how these needs will the Government be addressing the real crisis that is be properly met if local authority resources are already facing care homes and not the nonsense with which too stretched to cope. Given that the cost of the they have obsessed themselves? Government’s proposal will shift to the social care budget, will the Minister tell us what discussions she has Mr Clarke: As always, the hon. Gentleman has put had with the Department of Health, for example? We his case beautifully. 863 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 864

As we head for the Division Lobby tonight, we are Fiona O’Donnell: I am delighted to contribute to the asked to choose between the interests of people with debate. I want to speak in particular about the review disabilities, many of whom have been in residential care and possible removal of the mobility component of for more than 20 years, the concerns of their families DLA, or PIP as it has become, and the extension of the and the support of their communities, and the Government’s qualifying period for PIP from three to six months. wish to rush through legislation that in all candour is I listened carefully to the Minister during the whole completely indefensible. Tonight is a real test for the debate. I also attended a debate in Westminster Hall House, and by that I also mean Members of the Liberal where many of the issues that came up today were Democrat party. I understand that they did not take raised, yet it appears that we are no further on in part in the vote on this in Committee, but they are free finding an answer to our questions. The Minister seemed to do so tonight. If the Government do what they seek to think that she weakened the Opposition’s case by to do and interfere with the lives of the most vulnerable saying that we agreed with the need for reform of DLA, of our fellow citizens in the way that the Bill intends, but the point Opposition Members and our Front-Bench they do not deserve support and, frankly, people outwith team have consistently made is that, yes, reform is the House, including disability organisations, will be needed but the Government have got it wrong in the asking about the standing of this Parliament if we allow Bill. I often understand the rationale and politics in such a monstrosity to be endorsed in the Lobby. It does some of the Government’s decisions and proposals, but not deserve support and I hope that the House will I really feel that the proposals in the Bill that the support my hon. Friends’ amendment. I hope also that amendments address are actually cruel. I thought long the Government will think again. I hope that they will and hard about those words. think of the shame with which they have burdened Constituents have contacted me from cancer, mental themselves and try to redeem themselves from the situation health and disability organisations, including the Disability in which they alone have placed themselves. Benefits Consortium, which represents 50 charities and thousands of people with disabilities and their families. Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): I will be brief, Mr Deputy Their mission is clear. The DBC document states that it Speaker, as I know that others wish to catch your eye, is to use their combined knowledge, experience and and so I shall not take interventions. I am reassured by direct contact with disabled individuals, people with what the Minister said about the mobility component, long-term conditions and carers to ensure that Government but I should emphasise that its proposed withdrawal policy reflects and meets the needs of all disabled has caused a lot of worry and anxiety in my constituency. people. But the Government simply are not listening. Residents of Shaftesbury Court residential home in When so many people have come together, the Minister Lowestoft are heavily reliant on the mobility component should take the time, as others in the Cabinet have done, and if it had been simply withdrawn a number of to pause and reflect. We have seen in the movements to disabled and vulnerable people would effectively have oppose some of the measures a unity and solidarity that been confined to Shaftesbury Court. Visits to day centres has never been seen before. Is it not time to pause? and journeys to colleges would have been a thing of the past for them, and social outings to the cinema, bingo Cathy Jamieson: Does my hon. Friend agree that the and local sports centres would no longer have been organisations she has listed would have a great deal to possible. contribute if there was a proper official review, instead In addition, visits to the family home would have of the behind-the-scenes unofficial review, or whatever been increasingly difficult. Not all the residents of it was that the Minister described? Shaftesbury Court come from the Lowestoft area. Some come from further afield, including Ipswich, which is Fiona O’Donnell: I agree and I thank my hon. Friend 45 miles away, Canvey island, which is 103 miles away, for her contribution. I listened with interest to the and even Kent. Such home visits invariably take place speech the hon. Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny only once or twice a year and are very important to the Willott) made about her amendment. [Interruption.] residents and their families, and the removal of the She is thanking me now, but she may not thank me mobility component would have made it very difficult when I have made my comments, although I shall again for them to continue. I have heard it said that the try to be careful. It is extraordinary that a member of local authority or the care home operator would have the Government should support legislation and an stepped into the gap and taken on those responsibilities, amendment, yet time and again blatantly admit that she but under the existing contract at Shaftesbury Court, did not know what the Government were proposing. there is no obligation on either party to do so. Suffolk The hon. Lady kept pointing us in the direction of the county council does not have the funds to provide those Minister, saying that she would answer our questions. services and Sanctuary Care, which runs the home, does She was not in the Chamber for the whole of the not have the staff, resources or vehicles to take on the Minister’s speech, so I have to tell her that the Minister role. did not answer the questions. A further issue that needs to be considered, which the Jenny Willott: I want to make it very clear that I was Minister touched on, is how Motability would deal with here for the whole of the Minister’s contribution. The any change for people who currently use their mobility questions I referred to the Minister were about what she component to purchase a vehicle. This is a complex area was doing. Clearly, as a Back-Bench Government Member, and I do not believe that the Government intend to I am not privy to that. penalise a particularly vulnerable group of people. I am reassured by what the Minister said and I look forward Fiona O’Donnell: In that case, I suggest that the hon. to learning the results of the review, but I urge her not Lady holds back her support for the Government until to let down the residents, families and carers of those at she knows what they are going to do. She spoke to us Shaftesbury Court. about the review, but when she looks at the record she 865 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 866

[Fiona O’Donnell] know what the Minister means by “overlap” because I remember how important it was to Fiona, that young will see that she thought it entirely appropriate for woman from Wales, that she could attend her father’s disabled people not to play a part in it. The Government funeral service. ask us to have confidence in this information-gathering Upper Springland had several adapted buses as well review, but its findings will be secret, disabled people as individual cars that residents could use. There were will not be part of it and there will be no consultation regular trips to Perth so that people could access shops on it. The hon. Lady thinks those are reasons for us to and occasional drivers were on duty at the weekend. have confidence. I see Members on the Government However, it did not go as far as to provide a service to Back Benches putting their heads into their hands, and Fiona that would allow her to travel back to Wales to be well they may. These are the facts. What is being presented at her father’s funeral. Would the Minister see the to the House is clearly unacceptable. service at that residential home as duplication? Would she have removed Fiona’s mobility component, meaning Charlie Elphicke: I thank the hon. Lady for her great that it would have been virtually impossible for her to courtesy and generosity in taking interventions, and for attend her father’s funeral? her old-fashioned charm in giving way—[Interruption.] Her modern charm. Stephen Lloyd: I hope the hon. Lady accepts that my The issue is not about taking things from people; it is determination and passion about, and commitment to, about double-counting, so that we ensure that our people with disabilities are perhaps equal even to hers. scarce state resources are as well directed as possible. As I have listened to the debate, and especially to the Surely that must be the right approach. previous few speakers, I have become frustrated by hon. Members’assumptions that everything that the Government are doing is bad and for the worst reasons. She cites the 5.45 pm example of a funeral as if to intimate that that would Fiona O’Donnell: As someone who became a Member not be covered. I think that is scaremongering. I ask only recently, I would rather that I was not called that she thinks carefully about the language she uses. old-fashioned just yet. The hon. Gentleman completely misses the point. Fiona O’Donnell: I absolutely will not withdraw my On how people will be affected by the change to the comment. This is not scaremongering. I am setting out mobility component of DLA, there is a genuine and exactly the kind of concern that has been raised in a general lack of understanding of what residential care report commissioned by two of Scotland’s leading disability is about and the experiences of the people living in it. I charities. If the hon. Gentleman thinks that those charities was worried that the Minister used the word “overlap” would be as irresponsible as to carry out scaremongering again and again, because we do not know what that will and to frighten the people who form part of their be or how it will be defined. As my hon. Friend the organisations—the people for whom they stand up—it Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) asked, is he who has something to answer for. will it be defined on a group basis or individually? We are asked to have confidence that people will have the Mark Durkan: Does my hon. Friend agree that if same choice, flexibility, independence and dignity in people should be scared by anything, it should be not their lives, but I do not think that I can do so on the her question but the lack of the right answer from basis of what I have heard from the Minister. Government Ministers? I worked for a number of years in a residential home in Perthshire called Upper Springland, which is owned Fiona O’Donnell: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his and run by Capability Scotland. If hon. Members and support. the Minister in particular want information about what Let me talk about a few of the other people who lived the reform will mean, I suggest they read a report that at Upper Springland. David had no voluntary movement was commissioned by Capability Scotland and the Margaret of his arms and legs, and a little movement of his head. Blackwood housing association called “How am I going He had no verbal communication. He was completely to put flowers on my dad’s grave?”. I shall not apologise dependent but he had an incredibly active mind. He was if I become a little sentimental in the next part of my able to communicate through an auxiliary voice and speech because I want to talk about some of the people communication system. When he asked to have some I met in that residential home. swear words programmed into his computer, it caused I do not judge people for not really understanding some discomfort for the rather old-fashioned manager what a residential home is about because when I arrived of the residential home as David wandered around the at Upper Springland, it was not what I expected. People corridors telling everyone to “Eff off!” had not only a front door through which staff could David had come from Edinburgh to Upper Springland enter after knocking, but a back door. It was entirely because of its excellent reputation. He would love to appropriate that they came and went without us knowing return home on visits to see his family. I personally their movements. Sometimes they did not come home at accompanied David on his last visit to his father before night, in the way that many of us might have done in his father died and also to the funeral. I have genuine our misspent youth, but accessing that kind of information concerns about that. The Secretary of State shakes his was no business of ours. Many people—I was glad that head, but unless we get a definition of what the overlap the hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) raised means, how can we have any confidence? The organisations this point—had come from as far away as Wales to live out there representing people with disabilities do not in Perth at Upper Springland because it was such a have confidence in the proposal, so the Secretary of centre of excellence. This is the point at which I need to State has no reason to shake his head. 867 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 868

There was another young woman called Joyce who Fiona O’Donnell: All right; someone else will speak. was not only active—she played a sport called boccia and travelled around the world—but had a job for a few Mr Reid: Surely the hon. Lady, as a Scottish Member, hours a week so that she did not lose her benefits, and knows that it is up to the Scottish Parliament to decide volunteered in various organisations. To support her to on devolved matters. That is what devolution is all do that, she needed the flexibility to be able to book her about. It is up to the Scottish Parliament to decide own taxi to go to work and to participate in the other whether it provides that benefit or not. activities. There was Maggie, who refused to travel in the transport available at the centre because there was a Fiona O’Donnell: I know that. I am questioning great big sign up the side of the vehicle which said whether the Minister understands that that is the situation “Capability Scotland” and she did not see why she we find ourselves in and the impact it will have. Will the should be branded, but going to church every Sunday review include Scotland and the other devolved areas of was very important to Maggie. the United Kingdom? These are people I cared about and people I cared for. I fear greatly for what will happen to them and what Maria Miller: Yes, we do talk with the devolved their future lives will be like if the House does not Administrations, but I say to the hon. Lady that the support the amendments. point everyone is making is that many other hon. Members I have been critical of the Minister and other Members would like to speak. on the Government Benches, saying that they do not understand what disability and residential care mean. I Fiona O’Donnell: I absolutely take heed of that and heard the Prime Minister in one session of Prime Minister’s apologise if I have taken too much of the House’s time, questions talk about people in residential homes. Then, but I feel passionately about this issue. I will bring my it was an anomaly between them and people in hospital. remarks to a close by saying that I hope hon. Members Now the Prime Minister seems to acknowledge that will walk through the Lobby with us to vote in favour of residential care is a social model, not a medical model. the amendments that my colleagues and hon. Friends He has said that the DLA mobility component is not on the Front Bench have tabled. being removed, but the evidence in the Red Book is that it will disappear, so I am not reassured even by a Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I had wanted six-month stay of execution. to speak tonight on my concerns about the proposal not We must ensure that people continue to have the to make any personal independence payment for the same choices as people living outside residential care first six months, but I will speak about that later. homes. I do not like to talk about people living in the Further to what the hon. Member for East Lothian community, because people who live in residential care (Fiona O’Donnell) has just said, my understanding of homes are also part of our community. What evidence the Government’s position is that there is an overlap, is there of an overlap there? Charitable organisations and it is perfectly correct that where an overlap has been provide access to vehicles, so is the Minister going to identified we ought to have a review. It is also important assess whether there is an overlap there as well? to stress that we are not abolishing the mobility component for people in care homes by voting against the amendment People in residential care make the same choices as tonight; we will be voting to give the Government the we do. How many of us do not need a car? We could use power to make regulations. public transport, but for those people to buy an outdoor electric wheelchair, which they would not be entitled to Margaret Curran: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? under the NHS assessment, makes all the difference to their lives. Why should they not have that choice? It is not just about Motability cars. It is also about people Mr Reid: I am sorry, but there is no time. who have entered into contracts and loans to pay for What concerns me about the Bill as it stands is that those electric wheelchairs. All these months on from the those regulations will be made by the negative procedure, Westminster Hall debate, we still do not have an answer which does not give Parliament the absolute right to from the Minister about what will happen to those scrutinise and vote on them. I have put my name to people. amendment 74, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member A further topic that the Minister has not addressed—the for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott), which proposes that hon. Member for Cardiff Central had great hopes that the regulations should be made by the affirmative procedure. she would talk about it today—is the situation in respect of the devolved Governments of the United Kingdom. Maria Miller: Given the strength of feeling on this If the Minister has any expectation that there will be matter, from my hon. Friend and others, I am happy to regulation of residential care homes or a duty placed on give a firm undertaking that the regulations will be them to provide a service to people with disabilities, if made under the affirmative procedure to ensure that we she thinks she can compel the NHS to start providing get the debate that I know the House wants on the more mobility adaptations to people with disabilities, matter. and if she believes in the universality of the benefit, how can she ensure that people in Scotland will always Mr Reid: I am extremely grateful to the Minister for retain the same benefits as people in the rest of the that—I wish that every time I spoke for a minute I could United Kingdom? She did not clarify that, so I would bring about a change in Government policy. like to give her the opportunity now to intervene and In the few minutes remaining, I want to talk about answer that question. [Interruption.] No? the proposal not to pay any PIP for the first six months. What concerns me is that that will impact severely on Mr Reid: Will the hon. Lady give way? people who have a sudden onset of a very disabling 869 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 870

[Mr Reid] Blackman-Woods, Roberta Goggins, rh Paul Blears, rh Hazel Goodman, Helen condition, such as a stroke, cancer or the loss of a limb. Blenkinsop, Tom Greatrex, Tom Thankfully, that happens only to a relatively small Blomfield, Paul Green, Kate number of people of working age, which means that Blunkett, rh Mr David Greenwood, Lilian any savings the Government would make would be very Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Griffith, Nia Brennan, Kevin Gwynne, Andrew small. However, for someone in that unfortunate position Brown, rh Mr Gordon Hain, rh Mr Peter the first six months is often when the costs are greatest. Brown, Lyn Hamilton, Mr David They and their families have to adjust to the sudden Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hamilton, Fabian reality of coping with a disability. During those months, Brown, Mr Russell Hanson, rh Mr David people are often faced with extra costs such as special Bryant, Chris Havard, Mr Dai aids, adaptations to their homes or frequent trips to a Buck, Ms Karen Healey, rh John specialist hospital that might be far from where they Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hepburn, Mr Stephen live. Adaptations to the home are up-front costs that Campbell, Mr Alan Hermon, Lady need to be paid within the first six months. Depending Campbell, Mr Ronnie Heyes, David on their condition, those people might face many other Caton, Martin Hillier, Meg costs. Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hilling, Julie Clark, Katy Hodge, rh Margaret Another relevant issue is that until PIP is awarded, Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hodgson, Mrs Sharon other benefits such as carer’s allowance are not available. Clwyd, rh Ann Hoey, Kate Therefore, I urge the Government to look carefully at Coaker, Vernon Hood, Mr Jim ways of taking those circumstances into account and Coffey, Ann Hosie, Stewart see whether they can find a way to make financial help Cooper, Rosie Howarth, rh Mr George available for people in that position so that they can Cooper, rh Yvette Hunt, Tristram cope with the extra costs they face in the six months Corbyn, Jeremy Jackson, Glenda after the onset of the condition. Crausby, Mr David James, Mrs Siân C. Creagh, Mary Jamieson, Cathy Sheila Gilmore: I want to speak briefly to the question Creasy, Stella Jarvis, Dan of three and six months, because the Government have Cruddas, Jon Johnson, rh Alan said that people will be able to find other forms of Cryer, John Johnson, Diana Cunningham, Alex Jones, Graham assistance. What they mean by that is means-tested Cunningham, Mr Jim Jones, Helen assistance, but many people will not qualify for it, Cunningham, Tony Jones, Mr Kevan because their partner might earn as little as £7,500 a Curran, Margaret Jones, Susan Elan year or have— Dakin, Nic Jowell, rh Tessa Danczuk, Simon Joyce, Eric 6pm Darling, rh Mr Alistair Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Debate interrupted (Programme Order, 13 June). Davies, Geraint Keeley, Barbara De Piero, Gloria Kendall, Liz The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already Denham, rh Mr John Khan, rh Sadiq proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83E), Dobbin, Jim Lammy, rh Mr David That the amendment be made. Dobson, rh Frank Lavery, Ian Question negatived. Docherty, Thomas Lazarowicz, Mark Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Leslie, Chris The Deputy Speaker then put forthwith the Questions Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Lewis, Mr Ivan necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Lloyd, Tony at that time (Standing Order No. 83E). Doran, Mr Frank Long, Naomi Dowd, Jim Love, Mr Andrew Clause 79 Doyle, Gemma Lucas, Caroline Dromey, Jack Lucas, Ian Dugher, Michael MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan REQUIRED PERIOD CONDITION: FURTHER PROVISION Durkan, Mark MacShane, rh Mr Denis Amendment proposed: 44, page 56, line 45, leave out ‘6’ Eagle, Ms Angela Mactaggart, Fiona and insert ‘3’.—(Margaret Curran.) Edwards, Jonathan Mahmood, Mr Khalid Question put, That the amendment be made. Efford, Clive Mahmood, Shabana Ellman, Mrs Louise Mann, John The House divided: Ayes 239, Noes 294. Esterson, Bill Marsden, Mr Gordon Division No. 295] [6 pm Evans, Chris McCarthy, Kerry Farrelly, Paul McClymont, Gregg AYES Field, rh Mr Frank McCrea, Dr William Fitzpatrick, Jim McDonagh, Siobhain Abbott, Ms Diane Balls, rh Ed Flello, Robert McDonnell, John Abrahams, Debbie Banks, Gordon Flint, rh Caroline McFadden, rh Mr Pat Alexander, Heidi Barron, rh Mr Kevin Flynn, Paul McGovern, Alison Ali, Rushanara Beckett, rh Margaret Fovargue, Yvonne McGovern, Jim Allen, Mr Graham Begg, Dame Anne Francis, Dr Hywel McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Anderson, Mr David Bell, Sir Stuart Gapes, Mike McKechin, Ann Ashworth, Jon Benn, rh Hilary Gardiner, Barry McKinnell, Catherine Austin, Ian Benton, Mr Joe Gilmore, Sheila Meacher, rh Mr Michael Bailey, Mr Adrian Berger, Luciana Glass, Pat Mearns, Ian Bain, Mr William Betts, Mr Clive Glindon, Mrs Mary Michael, rh Alun 871 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 872

Miliband, rh David Sheerman, Mr Barry Davey, Mr Edward Howarth, Mr Gerald Miller, Andrew Sheridan, Jim Davies, David T. C. Howell, John Mitchell, Austin Shuker, Gavin (Monmouth) Hughes, rh Simon Moon, Mrs Madeleine Skinner, Mr Dennis Davies, Glyn Huhne, rh Chris Morden, Jessica Slaughter, Mr Andy Davies, Philip Hunter, Mark Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Smith, rh Mr Andrew Davis, rh Mr David Huppert, Dr Julian Morris, Grahame M. Smith, Angela de Bois, Nick Jackson, Mr Stewart (Easington) Smith, Nick Dinenage, Caroline James, Margot Mudie, Mr George Smith, Owen Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Javid, Sajid Mulholland, Greg Spellar, rh Mr John Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Jenkin, Mr Bernard Munn, Meg Stuart, Ms Gisela Dorries, Nadine Johnson, Gareth Murphy, rh Mr Jim Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Joseph Murphy, rh Paul Tami, Mark Drax, Richard Jones, Andrew Nandy, Lisa Thomas, Mr Gareth Duddridge, James Jones, Mr David Nash, Pamela Timms, rh Stephen Duncan, rh Mr Alan Kawczynski, Daniel O’Donnell, Fiona Trickett, Jon Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kelly, Chris Onwurah, Chi Turner, Karl Ellis, Michael Kirby, Simon Osborne, Sandra Twigg, Stephen Ellwood, Mr Tobias Knight, rh Mr Greg Owen, Albert Umunna, Mr Chuka Elphicke, Charlie Kwarteng, Kwasi Paisley, Ian Vaz, rh Keith Eustice, George Laing, Mrs Eleanor Pearce, Teresa Vaz, Valerie Evans, Graham Lamb, Norman Perkins, Toby Walley, Joan Evans, Jonathan Lancaster, Mark Phillipson, Bridget Watson, Mr Tom Evennett, Mr David Leadsom, Andrea Pound, Stephen Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Fabricant, Michael Lee, Jessica Qureshi, Yasmin Whitehead, Dr Alan Fallon, Michael Lee, Dr Phillip Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Wicks, rh Malcolm Field, Mr Mark Leech, Mr John Reeves, Rachel Williams, Hywel Foster, rh Mr Don Leigh, Mr Edward Reynolds, Emma Williamson, Chris Francois, rh Mr Mark Leslie, Charlotte Reynolds, Jonathan Winnick, Mr David Freeman, George Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Riordan, Mrs Linda Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Freer, Mike Lewis, Brandon Robertson, Angus Wishart, Pete Fullbrook, Lorraine Lewis, Dr Julian Robertson, John Wood, Mike Fuller, Richard Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Woodcock, John Gale, Mr Roger Lidington, rh Mr David Garnier, Mr Edward Lilley, rh Mr Peter Rotheram, Steve Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Roy, Lindsay Garnier, Mark Lloyd, Stephen Wright, David Ruane, Chris Gauke, Mr David Lopresti, Jack Wright, Mr Iain Ruddock, rh Joan Gibb, Mr Nick Lord, Jonathan Seabeck, Alison Tellers for the Ayes: Gilbert, Stephen Loughton, Tim Shannon, Jim Phil Wilson and Glen, John Lumley, Karen Sharma, Mr Virendra Mark Hendrick Goldsmith, Zac Macleod, Mary Goodwill, Mr Robert Main, Mrs Anne NOES Graham, Richard Maynard, Paul Grant, Mrs Helen McCartney, Jason Adams, Nigel Bradley, Karen Grayling, rh Chris McCartney, Karl Afriyie, Adam Brady, Mr Graham Green, Damian McIntosh, Miss Anne Aldous, Peter Brake, Tom Greening, Justine McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Amess, Mr David Bray, Angie Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McPartland, Stephen Andrew, Stuart Bridgen, Andrew Griffiths, Andrew McVey, Esther Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Brine, Mr Steve Gummer, Ben Mensch, Mrs Louise Bacon, Mr Richard Brokenshire, James Hague, rh Mr William Menzies, Mark Baker, Steve Brooke, Annette Halfon, Robert Mercer, Patrick Baldry, Tony Bruce, Fiona Hames, Duncan Metcalfe, Stephen Baldwin, Harriett Buckland, Mr Robert Hammond, Stephen Miller, Maria Barclay, Stephen Burley, Mr Aidan Hancock, Matthew Mills, Nigel Barker, Gregory Burns, Conor Hancock, Mr Mike Milton, Anne Baron, Mr John Burrowes, Mr David Hands, Greg Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Barwell, Gavin Byles, Dan Harper, Mr Mark Mordaunt, Penny Bebb, Guto Cairns, Alun Harris, Rebecca Morgan, Nicky Beith, rh Sir Alan Cameron, rh Mr David Harvey, Nick Morris, Anne Marie Bellingham, Mr Henry Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Heald, Oliver Morris, David Benyon, Richard Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Heath, Mr David Morris, James Beresford, Sir Paul Carmichael, Neil Heaton-Harris, Chris Mosley, Stephen Berry, Jake Chishti, Rehman Hemming, John Mowat, David Bingham, Andrew Chope, Mr Christopher Henderson, Gordon Mundell, rh David Binley, Mr Brian Clark, rh Greg Hendry, Charles Munt, Tessa Birtwistle, Gordon Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick Murray, Sheryll Blackman, Bob Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hoban, Mr Mark Murrison, Dr Andrew Blackwood, Nicola Collins, Damian Hollingbery, George Neill, Robert Blunt, Mr Crispin Colvile, Oliver Hollobone, Mr Philip Newmark, Mr Brooks Boles, Nick Crabb, Stephen Holloway, Mr Adam Newton, Sarah Bone, Mr Peter Crockart, Mike Hopkins, Kris Norman, Jesse Bottomley, Sir Peter Crouch, Tracey Horwood, Martin Nuttall, Mr David 873 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 874

O’Brien, Mr Stephen Stewart, Rory Bain, Mr William Farrelly, Paul Offord, Mr Matthew Streeter, Mr Gary Balls, rh Ed Field, rh Mr Frank Ollerenshaw, Eric Stride, Mel Banks, Gordon Fitzpatrick, Jim Patel, Priti Stuart, Mr Graham Barron, rh Mr Kevin Flello, Robert Pawsey, Mark Stunell, Andrew Beckett, rh Margaret Flint, rh Caroline Penrose, John Sturdy, Julian Begg, Dame Anne Flynn, Paul Percy, Andrew Swales, Ian Bell, Sir Stuart Fovargue, Yvonne Perry, Claire Swayne, Mr Desmond Benn, rh Hilary Francis, Dr Hywel Phillips, Stephen Swinson, Jo Benton, Mr Joe Gapes, Mike Pickles, rh Mr Eric Syms, Mr Robert Berger, Luciana Gardiner, Barry Pincher, Christopher Tapsell, Sir Peter Betts, Mr Clive Gilmore, Sheila Poulter, Dr Daniel Thurso, John Blackman-Woods, Roberta Glass, Pat Prisk, Mr Mark Timpson, Mr Edward Blears, rh Hazel Glindon, Mrs Mary Pugh, John Tomlinson, Justin Blenkinsop, Tom Goggins, rh Paul Raab, Mr Dominic Tredinnick, David Blomfield, Paul Goodman, Helen Randall, rh Mr John Truss, Elizabeth Blunkett, rh Mr David Greatrex, Tom Reckless, Mark Turner, Mr Andrew Bottomley, Sir Peter Green, Kate Redwood, rh Mr John Tyrie, Mr Andrew Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Greenwood, Lilian Rees-Mogg, Jacob Uppal, Paul Brennan, Kevin Griffith, Nia Reevell, Simon Vaizey, Mr Edward Brown, rh Mr Gordon Gwynne, Andrew Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Vickers, Martin Brown, Lyn Hain, rh Mr Peter Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hamilton, Mr David Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Robertson, Mr Laurence Brown, Mr Russell Hamilton, Fabian Walker, Mr Charles Rogerson, Dan Bryant, Chris Hanson, rh Mr David Walker, Mr Robin Rosindell, Andrew Buck, Ms Karen Havard, Mr Dai Wallace, Mr Ben Rudd, Amber Burnham, rh Andy Healey, rh John Ward, Mr David Ruffley, Mr David Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hepburn, Mr Stephen Russell, Bob Watkinson, Angela Campbell, Mr Alan Heyes, David Rutley, David Weatherley, Mike Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hillier, Meg Sanders, Mr Adrian Webb, Steve Caton, Martin Hilling, Julie Sandys, Laura Wharton, James Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hodge, rh Margaret Scott, Mr Lee Wheeler, Heather Clark, Katy Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Selous, Andrew Whittaker, Craig Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hoey, Kate Shapps, rh Grant Whittingdale, Mr John Clwyd, rh Ann Hood, Mr Jim Sharma, Alok Wiggin, Bill Coaker, Vernon Hosie, Stewart Shepherd, Mr Richard Williams, Mr Mark Coffey, Ann Howarth, rh Mr George Simmonds, Mark Williams, Stephen Cooper, Rosie Hunt, Tristram Simpson, Mr Keith Williamson, Gavin Cooper, rh Yvette Jackson, Glenda Skidmore, Chris Willott, Jenny Corbyn, Jeremy James, Mrs Siân C. Smith, Miss Chloe Wilson, Mr Rob Crausby, Mr David Jamieson, Cathy Smith, Julian Wollaston, Dr Sarah Creagh, Mary Jarvis, Dan Smith, Sir Robert Wright, Simon Creasy, Stella Johnson, rh Alan Cruddas, Jon Johnson, Diana Soubry, Anna Yeo, Mr Tim Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Cryer, John Jones, Graham Young, rh Sir George Spencer, Mr Mark Cunningham, Alex Jones, Helen Zahawi, Nadhim Stephenson, Andrew Cunningham, Mr Jim Jones, Mr Kevan Stevenson, John Tellers for the Noes: Cunningham, Tony Jones, Susan Elan Stewart, Bob Mr Shailesh Vara and Curran, Margaret Jowell, rh Tessa Stewart, Iain Jeremy Wright Dakin, Nic Joyce, Eric Danczuk, Simon Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Question accordingly negatived. Darling, rh Mr Alistair Keeley, Barbara Davies, Geraint Kendall, Liz De Piero, Gloria Khan, rh Sadiq Clause 83 Denham, rh Mr John Lammy, rh Mr David Dobbin, Jim Lavery, Ian PERSONS RECEIVING CERTAIN SERVICES Dobson, rh Frank Lazarowicz, Mark Amendment proposed: 42, page 58, line 40, at Docherty, Thomas Leslie, Chris beginning insert— Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Lewis, Mr Ivan ‘(3) The condition is that the person is an in-patient of a Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Lloyd, Tony hospital. Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Long, Naomi (4) ’.—(Margaret Curran.) Doran, Mr Frank Love, Mr Andrew Question put, That the amendment be made. Dowd, Jim Lucas, Caroline Doyle, Gemma Lucas, Ian The House divided: Ayes 239, Noes 295. Dromey, Jack MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Division No. 296] [6.16 pm Dugher, Michael Mactaggart, Fiona AYES Durkan, Mark Mahmood, Mr Khalid Eagle, Ms Angela Mahmood, Shabana Abbott, Ms Diane Allen, Mr Graham Edwards, Jonathan Mann, John Abrahams, Debbie Anderson, Mr David Efford, Clive Marsden, Mr Gordon Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Ashworth, Jon Ellman, Mrs Louise McCarthy, Kerry Alexander, Heidi Austin, Ian Esterson, Bill McClymont, Gregg Ali, Rushanara Bailey, Mr Adrian Evans, Chris McCrea, Dr William 875 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 876

McDonagh, Siobhain Roy, Lindsay Chope, Mr Christopher Hemming, John McDonnell, John Ruane, Chris Clark, rh Greg Henderson, Gordon McFadden, rh Mr Pat Ruddock, rh Joan Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hendry, Charles McGovern, Alison Seabeck, Alison Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick McGovern, Jim Shannon, Jim Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hoban, Mr Mark McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Sharma, Mr Virendra Collins, Damian Hollingbery, George McKechin, Ann Sheerman, Mr Barry Colvile, Oliver Hollobone, Mr Philip McKinnell, Catherine Sheridan, Jim Crabb, Stephen Holloway, Mr Adam Meacher, rh Mr Michael Skinner, Mr Dennis Crockart, Mike Hopkins, Kris Mearns, Ian Slaughter, Mr Andy Crouch, Tracey Horwood, Martin Michael, rh Alun Smith, rh Mr Andrew Davey, Mr Edward Howarth, Mr Gerald Miliband, rh David Smith, Angela Davies, David T. C. Howell, John Miller, Andrew Smith, Nick (Monmouth) Hughes, rh Simon Mitchell, Austin Smith, Owen Davies, Glyn Huhne, rh Chris Moon, Mrs Madeleine Spellar, rh Mr John Davies, Philip Huppert, Dr Julian Morden, Jessica Stuart, Ms Gisela Davis, rh Mr David Jackson, Mr Stewart Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry de Bois, Nick James, Margot Morris, Grahame M. Tami, Mark Dinenage, Caroline Javid, Sajid (Easington) Thomas, Mr Gareth Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Jenkin, Mr Bernard Mudie, Mr George Timms, rh Stephen Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Johnson, Gareth Munn, Meg Trickett, Jon Dorries, Nadine Johnson, Joseph Murphy, rh Mr Jim Turner, Karl Doyle-Price, Jackie Jones, Andrew Murphy, rh Paul Twigg, Stephen Drax, Richard Jones, Mr David Nandy, Lisa Umunna, Mr Chuka Duddridge, James Kawczynski, Daniel Nash, Pamela Vaz, rh Keith Duncan, rh Mr Alan Kelly, Chris O’Donnell, Fiona Vaz, Valerie Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kirby, Simon Onwurah, Chi Walley, Joan Ellis, Michael Knight, rh Mr Greg Osborne, Sandra Watson, Mr Tom Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kwarteng, Kwasi Owen, Albert Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Elphicke, Charlie Laing, Mrs Eleanor Paisley, Ian Whitehead, Dr Alan Eustice, George Lamb, Norman Pearce, Teresa Wicks, rh Malcolm Evans, Graham Lancaster, Mark Perkins, Toby Williams, Hywel Evans, Jonathan Leadsom, Andrea Phillipson, Bridget Williamson, Chris Evennett, Mr David Lee, Jessica Pound, Stephen Winnick, Mr David Fabricant, Michael Lee, Dr Phillip Qureshi, Yasmin Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Fallon, Michael Leech, Mr John Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Wishart, Pete Field, Mr Mark Leigh, Mr Edward Reed, Mr Jamie Wood, Mike Foster, rh Mr Don Leslie, Charlotte Reeves, Rachel Woodcock, John Francois, rh Mr Mark Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Freeman, George Lewis, Brandon Reynolds, Emma Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Reynolds, Jonathan Freer, Mike Lewis, Dr Julian Wright, David Riordan, Mrs Linda Fullbrook, Lorraine Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Wright, Mr Iain Robertson, Angus Fuller, Richard Lidington, rh Mr David Robertson, John Tellers for the Ayes: Gale, Mr Roger Lilley, rh Mr Peter Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Phil Wilson and Garnier, Mr Edward Lloyd, Stephen Rotheram, Steve Mark Hendrick Garnier, Mark Lopresti, Jack Gauke, Mr David Lord, Jonathan NOES Gibb, Mr Nick Loughton, Tim Gilbert, Stephen Lumley, Karen Adams, Nigel Blackwood, Nicola Glen, John Macleod, Mary Afriyie, Adam Blunt, Mr Crispin Goldsmith, Zac Main, Mrs Anne Aldous, Peter Boles, Nick Goodwill, Mr Robert Maynard, Paul Amess, Mr David Bone, Mr Peter Graham, Richard McCartney, Jason Andrew, Stuart Bradley, Karen Grant, Mrs Helen McCartney, Karl Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Brady, Mr Graham Grayling, rh Chris McIntosh, Miss Anne Bacon, Mr Richard Brake, Tom Green, Damian McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Baker, Steve Bray, Angie Greening, Justine McPartland, Stephen Baldry, Tony Bridgen, Andrew Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McVey, Esther Baldwin, Harriett Brine, Mr Steve Griffiths, Andrew Mensch, Mrs Louise Barclay, Stephen Brokenshire, James Gummer, Ben Menzies, Mark Barker, Gregory Bruce, Fiona Hague, rh Mr William Mercer, Patrick Baron, Mr John Buckland, Mr Robert Halfon, Robert Metcalfe, Stephen Barwell, Gavin Burley, Mr Aidan Hames, Duncan Miller, Maria Bebb, Guto Burns, Conor Hammond, Stephen Mills, Nigel Beith, rh Sir Alan Burns, rh Mr Simon Hancock, Matthew Milton, Anne Bellingham, Mr Henry Burrowes, Mr David Hancock, Mr Mike Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Benyon, Richard Burstow, Paul Hands, Greg Mordaunt, Penny Beresford, Sir Paul Byles, Dan Harper, Mr Mark Morgan, Nicky Berry, Jake Cairns, Alun Harris, Rebecca Morris, Anne Marie Bingham, Andrew Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harvey, Nick Morris, David Binley, Mr Brian Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Heald, Oliver Morris, James Birtwistle, Gordon Carmichael, Neil Heath, Mr David Mosley, Stephen Blackman, Bob Chishti, Rehman Heaton-Harris, Chris Mowat, David 877 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 878

Mulholland, Greg Spencer, Mr Mark City of London at the Mansion House dinner tonight Mundell, rh David Stephenson, Andrew that he has decided to sell off Northern Rock, currently Munt, Tessa Stevenson, John in state ownership, and has rejected the options of Murray, Sheryll Stewart, Bob flotation or selling it as a mutual. Instead it will be sold Murrison, Dr Andrew Stewart, Iain in a private sale. Has there been any indication that the Neill, Robert Stewart, Rory Chancellor will make a statement in this House before Newmark, Mr Brooks Streeter, Mr Gary Newton, Sarah Stride, Mel the speech in the City of London? Do you agree that Norman, Jesse Stuart, Mr Graham Parliament and the public should hear about this first, Nuttall, Mr David Stunell, Andrew before the City of London Mansion House dinner? O’Brien, Mr Stephen Sturdy, Julian Offord, Mr Matthew Swales, Ian Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I have been Ollerenshaw, Eric Swayne, Mr Desmond given no indication by the Treasury Bench or any Patel, Priti Swinson, Jo Department that there is to be a statement this evening. Pawsey, Mark Syms, Mr Robert I am sure that the Treasury Bench will have heard the Penrose, John Tapsell, Sir Peter right hon. Gentleman’s concerns. Percy, Andrew Thurso, John Phillips, Stephen Timpson, Mr Edward John McDonnell: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Pickles, rh Mr Eric Tomlinson, Justin Speaker. We have just finished the Report stage of the Pincher, Christopher Tredinnick, David Welfare Reform Bill, but we have failed yet again to Poulter, Dr Daniel Truss, Elizabeth Prisk, Mr Mark Turner, Mr Andrew reach major parts of the Bill, particularly amendments Pugh, John Tyrie, Mr Andrew on the cap on benefits, which I totally oppose and think Raab, Mr Dominic Uppal, Paul are a disturbing element of the Bill. As the Leader of Randall, rh Mr John Vaizey, Mr Edward the House is here, may I say to him through you, Reckless, Mark Vickers, Martin Mr Deputy Speaker, that we are exhibiting to the general Redwood, rh Mr John Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa public that the House is not working if we are not Rees-Mogg, Jacob Walker, Mr Charles reaching major parts of such an important Bill. I would Reevell, Simon Walker, Mr Robin hope that the Government would consider pausing, as Reid, Mr Alan Wallace, Mr Ben they did with the NHS Bill, and thinking again in the Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Ward, Mr David light of today’s debate. Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Watkinson, Angela Robertson, Mr Laurence Weatherley, Mike Mr Deputy Speaker: The programme motion— Rogerson, Dan Webb, Steve Rosindell, Andrew Wharton, James Rudd, Amber Wheeler, Heather The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Ruffley, Mr David Whittaker, Craig Duncan Smith) rose— Rutley, David Whittingdale, Mr John Sanders, Mr Adrian Wiggin, Bill Mr Deputy Speaker: I call Mr Duncan Smith. Sandys, Laura Williams, Mr Mark Scott, Mr Lee Williams, Stephen Mr Duncan Smith: Further to that point of order, Selous, Andrew Williamson, Gavin Mr Deputy Speaker. It might be of assistance to the Shapps, rh Grant Willott, Jenny House to remind those who were not in the Committee Sharma, Alok Wilson, Mr Rob that every single clause was debated there, and we Shepherd, Mr Richard Wollaston, Dr Sarah have also had two days on Report, which is almost Simmonds, Mark Wright, Jeremy unprecedented. Simpson, Mr Keith Wright, Simon Skidmore, Chris Yeo, Mr Tim Smith, Miss Chloe Mr Deputy Speaker: This seems to be a continuation Young, rh Sir George Smith, Julian of the debate on the programme motion, which was Zahawi, Nadhim Smith, Sir Robert decided on Monday. It was agreed by the House so this Soames, Nicholas Tellers for the Noes: is not a matter for the Chair. Let us now move on, in the Soubry, Anna Mr Shailesh Vara and short time we have, to Third Reading. Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Mark Hunter Third Reading

Question accordingly negatived. 6.30 pm Mr Duncan Smith: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Schedule 14 I am conscious that we have only half an hour, so I will try to make some progress. A great deal has been REPEALS debated, but I am happy to take a couple of interventions. Amendments made: 20, page 165, leave out line 25 I recognise that some others on the Back Benches and insert— would like to say something because they did not get in ‘In section 37(1)—(a) in paragraph (a)(i), “6, 7”; (b) paragraph (ab).’ earlier, and I think we ought to leave them some time. Amendment 21, page 165, line 35, at end insert The Bill allows us to start dealing once and for all ‘and (1A)’.—(Chris Grayling.) with the welfare dependency we inherited. Just the other week we learned from the Office for National Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): On a Statistics that there are now nearly twice as many households point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In the last hour, the in the UK where no one has ever worked as there were BBC has announced that the Chancellor will tell the in 1997, and today there are nearly 2 million children 879 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 880 growing up in workless households—children with no [Interruption.] Wait a minute. The right hon. Gentleman positive role models who can teach them the benefits of knows very well—he should stop playing silly games—that work. This entrenched worklessness is the issue, and is we have asked—[Interruption.] No, no—[Interruption.] the product of a broken welfare system that takes away Grow up, for God’s sake! He has to recognise that we up to 96p in every pound earned as people increase their have asked Professor Harrington to review that, because hours in work. It is a system that shunts people from that is a later form of chemotherapy, and he will report employment programme to employment programme, back. Whatever his recommendations are, we have said never looking at them as individuals but as collective that we will accept that. The right hon. Gentleman groups. It is a system that provides disabled people with knows that, and I suspect that he should have said it outdated and complex support that often fails them when he got up at the Dispatch Box. [Interruption.] I when they most need it. By the end of Labour’s term in think I have done that; I just wish that the Opposition office, that system left us with income inequality at its would not play politics with people’s fears and highest level since records began, despite the billions concerns. They made no arrangements at all for cancer Labour spent. The backdrop to this social breakdown patients on ESA, so we will take no lessons whatever was the inheritance of an economy that was absolutely from them. on its knees when we came into government. We are now paying as a result of Labour’s Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): Given mismanagement of the economy, which is causing all the shameless scaremongering in the Chamber today at the problems and which is why, even in this Bill, we are Prime Minister’s Question Time and during this debate, having to find savings, with an eye-watering £120 million can the Secretary of State assure us that people recovering a day going to pay off the interest alone on the debt that from cancer will not have their benefits taken away from the last Government left us. It is because of the deficit them? reduction plan that Britain has put in place that we have managed to keep our borrowing costs low and comparable Mr Duncan Smith: I was not going to pick up on that, to Germany’s rather than to those faced by Portugal, but given that my hon. Friend has asked me, I will say Ireland or Greece. These need to be seen in context, but that the reality, which is clear, is that the Government I want to— inherited the employment and support allowance reform from the previous Government. It was this Government Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab): On a who exempted cancer patients on chemotherapy in point of order, Mr Speaker. To remain in order on hospitals; they were not exempted by the previous Third Reading, is it not necessary to talk only about the Government. Our record on this is therefore quite good. content of the Bill, not things external to it? As for the exchange at Prime Minister’s Question Time, it is also important to say that if somebody cannot take Mr Speaker: That is correct. On Third Reading, all work, they will remain on the support group or be speakers must focus on what is in the Bill, not what is moved to the support group, where they will continue to excluded from or outside it. receive full support indefinitely—and it will not be income-related. Mr Duncan Smith: I agree, Mr Speaker, which is why Stephen Timms rose— I have done nothing but refer to the reasons for the Bill, the rationale behind it and what is in it, hence the Mr Duncan Smith: One moment, one moment. Let cancer point that we have talked about. me finish, all right? Let me proceed to the issue of the benefit cap, which I In reality, therefore, people on the work-related activity do not think the Opposition ever wanted to get to. Our group will already have been seen to be able to do some reforms are fundamentally about fairness: fairness to work with some assistance—that is the key—and of recipients, but also—and too often forgotten—fairness course, as has long been the case, those benefits are to the hard-pressed taxpayers who have to pay for those income-related. It is also important to note that the on benefits. Across a range of areas, we have made figure that Macmillan produced today—of 7,000 people changes designed to ensure that people on benefits losing everything—is not altogether accurate, because— cannot live a lifestyle that is unattainable to those who [Interruption.] No, no, because 60% of the people it are in work. Let us take the benefit cap—an issue on was talking about will continue to receive some form of which the Opposition have got themselves in a bit of a support; they will not be losing all their money. We will mess. Just two days ago, the right hon. Member for not be moving those on chemo. We are looking to Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), who is now in his review the situation under Professor Harrington to see place, told the House: how much further we can go, but the fact is that if “The cap on overall benefits…is an important part of the someone is not capable of work and is too ill, they will legislation”.—[Official Report, 13 June 2011; Vol. 529, c. 491.] be on the support group. However, it is now clear that his own party is completely Stephen Timms: Can the Secretary of State confirm, divided on the matter. Even late last night, the Opposition however, that people receiving oral chemotherapy and tabled an amendment that they knew they would not be oral radio therapy are in the work-related activity group, allowed to vote on—a starred amendment—just so that and that if they are halfway through their treatment they could posture and appease their Back Benchers, and it gets to a year, they will lose all their contributory who are on the wrong side of the debate entirely. benefit? [Interruption.] No, no, the Opposition know very well that they had days to table that amendment, but they Mr Duncan Smith: Not if they are on income-related did not bother—I suppose that the right hon. Gentleman benefit. Of course they will absolutely continue to get will say that he did know that there was a time limit on the income-related support. The point is that this— tabling amendments. The reality is that the Opposition 881 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 882

[Mr Duncan Smith] Sheila Gilmore: The Secretary of State wishes to present the Bill as being about people who are workless are opposed to the cap. They should be honest and say or feckless, but hard-working taxpayers who suddenly that they do not want it. Indeed, even their amendment fall ill and are unable to claim the personal independence would have knocked out the entire effect of the cap. payment for six months could well be excluded from Let me turn to conditionality, another issue in the benefits because they have been savers. Is that fair? Bill. Mr Duncan Smith: If the hon. Lady had looked at Simon Hughes: Before the Secretary of State leaves what the cap covers, she would know that those on tax the benefit cap, let me say that I understand the reason credit will be exempt, as will those on DLA, widows for a national benefit cap. Does he accept, however, that and others who are in difficulties. The cap is about those colleagues across the House are concerned that in London, who we believe should be able to go to work but are not because of the cost of housing, there is a special issue doing so. Of course, this would just be all stick if it were that deserves further debate? I wonder whether he would not for the fact that the Minister of State, Department be willing to meet colleagues from all parties, local for Work and Pensions, my right hon. Friend the Member government, the Mayor, housing providers and the Housing for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) had recently Minister so that we can get the problem sorted for all introduced the biggest back-to-work programme this those with an interest in London. country has ever seen, to support those in greatest difficulty. Universal credit is about helping to improve Mr Duncan Smith: I have always said that the door is people’s incomes when we get them back into work with open to everybody to discuss the effects and how some a bigger incentive. We are striking a fair balance by of them can be ameliorated—or not, depending on doing all that while also placing some expectations on what the issues are. The answer is therefore yes—as a those who are waiting to go to work. London MP, I should join that delegation too—although That is also the point of the next bit, which is about I still believe that we have the right policy, because it is conditionality and sanctions. The Bill places a level of about balancing fairness for those hard-working people responsibility back into the system by strengthening who pay their taxes who often feel that those beyond our conditionality and sanctions regime and requiring work are not working themselves. all claimants to accept a claimant commitment setting out their individual responsibilities—a sort of contract Sheila Gilmore: Will the Secretary of State give way? that will enable them to understand that they have certain obligations and that there are certain things that Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): Will the Secretary of we are obligated to do for them. That is fair. Many State give way? claimants I have spoken to out there are completely confused about what they should or should not be doing. Mr Duncan Smith: I will give way only once or twice more, and I give way now to my hon. Friend. When those responsibilities are not met, we will have the power to apply a robust set of sanctions, which will Steve Baker: I am most grateful to the Secretary of be made clear to the claimant at the beginning. Opposition State. Will he join me in reminding the House that, by Front-Bench Members who were in the previous dint of great effort, in 2011-12—[Interruption]—I assure Government will know from going round jobcentres the hon. Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran) that claimants often still profess, even at the last moment, that this comes from the HMRC website, not the Whips— to having no knowledge of the fact that they will face the pay-as-you-earn tax threshold will be just £7,475 a sanctions if they do not comply. So we are going to let year? Will he also remind the House that the people them know early exactly what the sanctions will be. As paying tax—that is, paying tax to pay the benefits that with universal credit, they will then have a clearer others are in receipt of—are actually poorly paid and understanding of what they are meant to be doing. that a year’s pay on the national minimum wage is just The next area, which we have dealt with in some £12,300? Will he join me in recognising that it is an issue detail, involves the personal independence payment. We of social justice that we should introduce the benefits are bringing more responsibility to the system, but I cap? believe that we are also improving support for those who are able to work and for those who are not. Mr Speaker: Order. May I just remind Members that Disability support is an issue. The Bill makes critical interventions should be brief? I know that the Secretary changes to the system, and the Under-Secretary of of State and others will be conscious that other people State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member want to speak in the debate. for Basingstoke (Maria Miller) made a sterling effort to explain them in Committee and on Report. Mr Duncan Smith: I agree with my hon. Friend. That The changes to the current system of disability support point is also powerfully made by the fact that nearly will ensure that disability living allowance is no longer half of all those who are working and paying taxes fall awarded on the basis of subjective and inconsistent below the level of the cap. It is important to achieve a decisions. I hope that all hon. Members will recognise balance of fairness. I recognise that there are issues, and that this is a bold attempt to bring this area of benefit we have looked at ways in which the process of change up to date and to ensure that those who are not getting in housing benefit can be done more carefully, for what they should will do so, and that those, however example. This is not about punishing people; it is about many there are, who are getting too much or not the establishing a principle that fairness runs through the right amount will get that adjusted as well. The truth is whole of the benefit system. that this will be based on their ability to live their lives. 883 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 884

I agree with my hon. Friend the Minister about the When it comes to spending commitments, the Opposition checks involved. The DLA will be replaced in total by a do not seem to know whether they are coming or going. personal independence payment, which will be based, They would have us believe that they would have taken for the first time, on regular and objective assessments responsible decisions on the economy, but if they had of need. had their way in Committee, the amendments would This brings me to perhaps the biggest thing in the have entailed extra spending commitments running into Bill: universal credit. This lies at the heart of all our billions of pounds. Not once have they said that they reforms. It involves the principle that it should no approve of any of the changes or the savings within the longer be possible for people to be better off on benefits scope of the Bill. It was all the more surprising when, than in work, or for people to fear moving into work. I the other day, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, say “fear” because people are often concerned because Hodge Hill complained—irony of ironies—that the housing they simply cannot tell whether they will be better off or benefit bill is apparently set to increase in the course of worse off in work. No longer are we going to try to pick this Parliament. Imagine that—the man who watched the number of hours that somebody should be working; while housing benefit spending crashed through the rather, we will say to them, “Youmust make that choice, roof, nearly doubling in 10 years, and was set under his in line with work, relevant to your caring responsibilities Government to rise by a further £2.5 billion in this and all the other issues that affect you.” This is a bold Parliament alone, has started to tell us that somehow reform to help people to improve their chances and give we are not being harsh enough. What a contrast with them the assistance they need. That goes alongside the his hon. Friend the Member for Westminster North Work programme, as I said earlier, which will support (Ms Buck) in her place beside him, who claimed that all those people who are trying desperately to make the our changes to housing benefit best of their difficult conditions and get back to work. “would lead to social cleansing on an unprecedented scale.” Frankly, they need to get their act together, as they do not seem to know whether they are in favour or against Frank Dobson: In view of the complexities encompassed cuts—or whether they simply do not agree with anything. in the universal credit, does the Secretary of State seriously believe that the Government are capable of The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill producing a computer system that will work properly wants to speak, so I shall finish. These measures have from the start? always been about welfare reform that forms a contract with the people of this country. It is a promise on our part to provide a simpler, fairer system that protects the Mr Duncan Smith: The right hon. Gentleman refers most vulnerable and makes work pay; and a promise on to complexities—he and I have discussed many issues the part of those who are claiming benefits to play their before—and this present system is so complex that if he part, to look for work whenever they are able to do so, were in the situation of many of the people in his and to take some of the responsibility that the right hon. constituency, he would find it incredibly difficult to Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband)spoke know whether or not they are better off. The principle of just two days ago—although half of his party does behind the Bill is that we must try to achieve that. If he not agree with him. As I said before, this is about wants to know my honest opinion, I believe that we will fairness to recipients and fairness to the hard-pressed be able to make it happen. We are working hard to taxpayer. On that basis, I ask all Members to get behind make sure that this medium-level change to IT works this Bill, and perhaps the Opposition will make up their out. I recognise it as such a change. I have had conversations minds about whether or not they are in favour of this about it with his Front-Bench colleague, the right hon. reform. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms). Our views may differ slightly, but the reality is that the process has to happen; IT development is part of the process. I give 6.49 pm the right hon. Gentleman as much of a guarantee as I Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab): I can that we will deliver it—right and on time. am grateful for the chance to speak on Third Reading Some 2.7 million households will be better off as a this evening. I am glad that the Bill has finally come result of the universal credit and almost 85% of the back to the House and I wish I could say that I thought gains—I hope that Opposition Members will support the Bill’s passage through this place had improved it. I this aspect—will go ultimately to the bottom 40% of cannot with justice say that. We said from the outset people in the income distribution. I would have thought that we wanted to approach this question in a spirit of that they would want to support that. My concern national consensus. throughout the debates—I now want to bring my comments The Opposition are proud of our record of delivering rapidly to a conclusion—has been that it is not at all welfare reform in this country. I am glad that the clear what exactly the Opposition support and what Secretary of State referred to statistics from the Office they do not support. By their actions and by what they for National Statistics that were published the other day say, there is no commonality. because they were the same statistics that confirmed The Opposition tabled more than 200 amendments in that by 2008 the claimant count was half the level we Committee, but voted on them only 16 times. They have were left by the previous Government back in 1997. The complained that we did not allow enough time for number of people claiming unemployment benefit for consideration of issues on Report and then, on the day more than 12 months in that year was down to a before yesterday, they proceeded to talk for more than quarter of the level we inherited in 1997, so, no, it is not an hour on amendments that they did not even push to a surprise that his own welfare Minister, Lord Freud, a vote. If they had not done that, they would easily have said that our record of delivering welfare reform was had a chance to debate some of these other areas. remarkable. 885 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 886

[Mr Liam Byrne] campaigners to try to get this sorted out. I ask him to take heed of what Owen Sharp, the chief executive of On Monday night, I set out how I thought that the Prostate Cancer Charity, has said this afternoon: further reforms should be made to toughen the “The changes to disability benefits will mean that a significant responsibility to get back into work and to enshrine a number of people with cancer will be left without vital financial culture of work in every community in this country. support at a time when they need it the most…The current Throughout the passage of the Bill, we have sought to proposals in the Welfare Reform Bill will discriminate against table amendments that would have improved it and cancer patients and should be amended.” allowed it to leave this place for the better. The Government Perhaps the Government would be on stronger ground have refused to listen and have refused to accept advice if only a tiny minority of people were affected, so the and amendments. The Bill presented to this House House is right to ask how many people will be hurt. On might have started with an instinct for compassionate 16 May, the Government told us: 77% of people in the Conservatism in action, but we have in front of us work-related activity group will not have recovered tonight a law that cuts benefits for people with cancer from their condition after a year, yet that is when their when the Minister says that they will not be ready to benefit will be cut. How on earth can that be justified? work by the time that cut hits them. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell gave us his I said that we would not oppose the Bill on Second answer in Committee when he said that Reading to give the Government some space to improve it. We back welfare reform that gets people back to “this is a sensible measure”.––[Official Report, Welfare Reform Public Bill Committee, 3 May 2011; c. 655.] work and that simplifies the benefit system. We support the principle of universal credit and we support sanctions It is a decision that is, in his words, “not about recovery for those who are not trying hard enough to get a job. times”. We support a cap on benefits if it saves public money, Perhaps I could understand that argument if I felt but this is where the agreement ends, not least because that the Department had its spending priorities straight, this Bill is so cold and so hard that it ends a tradition of but the truth is that its message is so harsh that it has compassion in the welfare state that we should conserve had to hire media trainers to teach the Minister with and not consign to history. responsibility for disability, the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Basingstoke Once upon a time, this Secretary of State knew about (Maria Miller), how to spin her lines. The Department compassion. In 2009, he said that the welfare state is a has passed to me documents that detail the media symbol of a compassionate and civilised society. I think training bill for her, which equals three and a half that he has honourable intentions, but he has not presented months’ worth of somebody’s employment and support us tonight with a Bill that is in an honourable state. It is, allowance, which would be cut. It is a shame that her frankly, a disgrace that the Government have not found expensive eloquence was not more convincing this additional time to debate cuts to contributory ESA that afternoon. Cutting benefits for people with disabilities would cut benefits to people with cancer before they are and hiring media trainers instead—that tells us all we fully recovered. My right hon. Friend the Member for need to know about this Secretary of State’s priorities. East Ham (Stephen Timms) asked for additional time from the Minister of State, Department for Work and Mr Duncan Smith: Will the right hon. Gentleman Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell give way? (Chris Grayling), on Monday, but he refused to give the House that time. Mr Byrne: I am afraid that I will not—[Interruption.] To single out for the proposed cuts benefits that No, because the Secretary of State talked for well over would allow cancer patients to go on receiving the the time we agreed through the usual channels this benefits they need is unacceptable. It is unacceptable afternoon and he is now wasting—[Interruption.] because it is an attack on compassion. It is unacceptable because we cannot ask people who are still battling Mr Speaker: Order. Mr Rob Wilson, you have just cancer to start filling out job applications. It is unacceptable toddled into the Chamber, do not shout across the because most of us in the Chamber tonight will either Chamber in that way. [Interruption.] No, no; do not have personal experience or families with experience of argue the point. [Interruption.] Order. I am telling the the truth that it takes more than courage to beat cancer hon. Gentleman—[Interruption.] I do not need any and finding a job is not part of any recovery programme expression; I am telling him what the situation is. I have heard doctors recommend. Worse, this is a benefit that people have actually paid in for. Now, when they Mr Byrne: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I say to Liberal need it most, it is being taken away. Democrat Members tonight that today is the deadline for advice on motions to their conference and one has Ciaran Devane, the chief executive of Macmillan found its way to me this afternoon. They should listen Cancer Support, said: to what their grass roots are saying—that they should “Many cancer patients will lose this crucial benefit simply support the amendments that we tabled on Report. The because they have not recovered quickly enough…This proposal Liberal Democrats should not be fooled by the idea that in the Welfare Reform Bill will have a devastating impact on many to succeed in politics one has to rise above one’s principles, cancer patients. We are urging the government to change their and they should not betray the principles of Lloyd plans to reform key disability benefits to ensure cancer patients George, Beveridge and Keynes for the political convenience and their families are not pushed into poverty.” of the hour. They should show us, show people and Even at this late stage, I ask the Secretary of State to show their grass roots that like us they have heard the speak to his friend the Prime Minister and to sit down voices of the vulnerable, who are calling on them to with cancer charities, disability groups and other act—and to act tonight. 887 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 888

As if the cuts for cancer patients in clause 51 were not The Speaker put forthwith the Question already proposed bad enough, they are rendered worse by the determination from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83E), That the Bill of this Government to leave people on disability benefits be now read the Third time. as prisoners in their own homes. On Saturday morning, The House divided: Ayes 288, Noes 238. my constituent Stephen McClaren came to see me. He has cerebral palsy, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, Division No. 297] [7 pm learning disabilities and he gets these mobility payments in order to help him to see his mum, go to the gym and AYES live the quiet miracle of a normal life. These plans have Adams, Nigel Davis, rh Mr David filled him with fear. He and 80,000 disabled people are Afriyie, Adam de Bois, Nick now worried sick about what the Government have in Aldous, Peter Dinenage, Caroline store for them. Amess, Mr David Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Andrew, Stuart Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen The charities say that the changes are “fundamentally Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Dorries, Nadine unfair”, so what is going on? The Prime Minister has Bacon, Mr Richard Doyle-Price, Jackie said that the DLA mobility component will not be cut Baker, Norman Drax, Richard for those in residential care homes—that is what he told Baker, Steve Duddridge, James the House on 23 March—but the Budget book says that Baldwin, Harriett Duncan, rh Mr Alan cuts to the DLA mobility component will total £475 million Barclay, Stephen Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain from people in residential care by 2015. Who is telling Barker, Gregory Ellis, Michael the truth? We now know that there is a review, but today Baron, Mr John Ellwood, Mr Tobias is the Third Reading of the Bill. The Government want Barwell, Gavin Elphicke, Charlie to change the law, but what is their policy? It is a secret. Bebb, Guto Eustice, George The Minister for spin, the hon. Member for Basingstoke Beith, rh Sir Alan Evans, Graham has said, with her new expensive eloquence, that the Bellingham, Mr Henry Evans, Jonathan Benyon, Richard Evennett, Mr David Government Beresford, Sir Paul Fabricant, Michael “have no plans to publish the findings of this work”.—[Official Berry, Jake Fallon, Michael Report, 9 May 2011; Vol. 527, c. 1003W.] Bingham, Andrew Field, Mr Mark Tonight, we are supposed to give the Government powers Binley, Mr Brian Foster, rh Mr Don to abolish the benefit when their evidence for reform is Blackman, Bob Francois, rh Mr Mark to be kept secret. What a shambles. Blackwood, Nicola Freeman, George Blunt, Mr Crispin Freer, Mike The Bill violates every basic test of compassion and, Boles, Nick Fullbrook, Lorraine just as bad, it also fails the test of fostering ambition to Bone, Mr Peter Fuller, Richard work. I know that the Secretary of State is trying as Bottomley, Sir Peter Gale, Mr Roger hard as possible to introduce reforms that will help to Bradley, Karen Garnier, Mr Edward make sure that work pays, but he cannot honourably Brady, Mr Graham Garnier, Mark say that and give that guarantee for anyone with children Brake, Tom Gibb, Mr Nick because he cannot make up his mind how much parents Bray, Angie Glen, John Bridgen, Andrew Goldsmith, Zac are going to get for child care under universal credit. We Brine, Mr Steve Goodwill, Mr Robert are being told that that credit will be abolished tonight Brokenshire, James Graham, Richard with no sense of what is going to come in its place. Brooke, Annette Grayling, rh Chris In February, the Secretary of State was unable to say Bruce, Fiona Green, Damian what the Government’s plans are. He told the House, Buckland, Mr Robert Greening, Justine not once but twice—most recently on 24 March, I Burley, Mr Aidan Grieve, rh Mr Dominic think—that he would tell us, here in the House before Burns, Conor Griffiths, Andrew the Bill got through the Committee stage, that he would Burns, rh Mr Simon Gummer, Ben Burrowes, Mr David Halfon, Robert publish his child care policy. Leaked documents from Byles, Dan Hames, Duncan the DWP say that the cuts could disadvantage 250,000 Cairns, Alun Hammond, Stephen people, cutting support almost by half, yet tonight we Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hancock, Matthew are at Third Reading and the Secretary of State still has Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hancock, Mr Mike not told us what his plans are for child care. Carmichael, Neil Hands, Greg There are new penalties in the Bill for savers. There Chishti, Rehman Harper, Mr Mark are new penalties for the self-employed. The Bill was Chope, Mr Christopher Harris, Rebecca supposed to be a milestone in the evolution of the Clark, rh Greg Harvey, Nick Government and the compassionate Conservatism they Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hayes, Mr John espoused, but tonight they have been found out. We Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Heald, Oliver have a law to hurt cancer patients and a Bill to trap the Coffey, Dr Thérèse Heath, Mr David disabled, confusion for parents and penalties for savers. Collins, Damian Heaton-Harris, Chris Whether people are ill, disabled or working hard to Colvile, Oliver Hemming, John do the right thing, the Government are determined Crabb, Stephen Henderson, Gordon to attack the benefits they paid to receive. We should Crockart, Mike Hendry, Charles stand up— Crouch, Tracey Herbert, rh Nick Davey, Mr Edward Hoban, Mr Mark Davies, David T. C. Hollingbery, George (Monmouth) Hollobone, Mr Philip 7pm Davies, Glyn Holloway, Mr Adam Debate interrupted (Programme Order, 13 June). Davies, Philip Hopkins, Kris 889 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 890

Horwood, Martin Pawsey, Mark Ward, Mr David Willott, Jenny Howarth, Mr Gerald Penrose, John Watkinson, Angela Wilson, Mr Rob Howell, John Percy, Andrew Weatherley, Mike Wollaston, Dr Sarah Hughes, rh Simon Phillips, Stephen Webb, Steve Wright, Jeremy Huhne, rh Chris Pickles, rh Mr Eric Wharton, James Wright, Simon Huppert, Dr Julian Pincher, Christopher Wheeler, Heather Yeo, Mr Tim Jackson, Mr Stewart Poulter, Dr Daniel Whittaker, Craig Young, rh Sir George James, Margot Prisk, Mr Mark Whittingdale, Mr John Zahawi, Nadhim Javid, Sajid Pugh, John Wiggin, Bill Tellers for the Ayes: Jenkin, Mr Bernard Raab, Mr Dominic Williams, Mr Mark Mark Hunter and Johnson, Gareth Randall, rh Mr John Williamson, Gavin Mr Shailesh Vara Johnson, Joseph Reckless, Mark Jones, Andrew Redwood, rh Mr John Jones, Mr David Rees-Mogg, Jacob NOES Kawczynski, Daniel Reevell, Simon Abbott, Ms Diane Danczuk, Simon Kelly, Chris Reid, Mr Alan Abrahams, Debbie Darling, rh Mr Alistair Kirby, Simon Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Davies, Geraint Knight, rh Mr Greg Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Alexander, Heidi De Piero, Gloria Kwarteng, Kwasi Robertson, Mr Laurence Ali, Rushanara Denham, rh Mr John Laing, Mrs Eleanor Rogerson, Dan Allen, Mr Graham Dobbin, Jim Lamb, Norman Rosindell, Andrew Anderson, Mr David Dobson, rh Frank Lancaster, Mark Rudd, Amber Ashworth, Jon Docherty, Thomas Leadsom, Andrea Ruffley, Mr David Austin, Ian Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Lee, Jessica Russell, Bob Bailey, Mr Adrian Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Lee, Dr Phillip Rutley, David Bain, Mr William Doran, Mr Frank Leigh, Mr Edward Sanders, Mr Adrian Balls, rh Ed Dowd, Jim Leslie, Charlotte Sandys, Laura Banks, Gordon Doyle, Gemma Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Scott, Mr Lee Barron, rh Mr Kevin Dromey, Jack Lewis, Brandon Selous, Andrew Beckett, rh Margaret Dugher, Michael Lewis, Dr Julian Shapps, rh Grant Begg, Dame Anne Durkan, Mark Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Sharma, Alok Bell, Sir Stuart Eagle, Ms Angela Lidington, rh Mr David Shepherd, Mr Richard Benn, rh Hilary Edwards, Jonathan Lilley, rh Mr Peter Simmonds, Mark Benton, Mr Joe Efford, Clive Lloyd, Stephen Simpson, Mr Keith Berger, Luciana Ellman, Mrs Louise Lopresti, Jack Skidmore, Chris Betts, Mr Clive Esterson, Bill Lord, Jonathan Smith, Miss Chloe Blackman-Woods, Roberta Evans, Chris Loughton, Tim Smith, Julian Blears, rh Hazel Farrelly, Paul Lumley, Karen Smith, Sir Robert Blenkinsop, Tom Field, rh Mr Frank Main, Mrs Anne Soames, Nicholas Blomfield, Paul Fitzpatrick, Jim Maynard, Paul Soubry, Anna Blunkett, rh Mr David Flello, Robert McCartney, Jason Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Flint, rh Caroline McCartney, Karl Spencer, Mr Mark Brennan, Kevin Flynn, Paul McIntosh, Miss Anne Stephenson, Andrew Brown, rh Mr Gordon Fovargue, Yvonne McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Stevenson, John Brown, Lyn Francis, Dr Hywel McPartland, Stephen Stewart, Bob Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Gapes, Mike McVey, Esther Stewart, Iain Brown, Mr Russell Gardiner, Barry Mensch, Mrs Louise Stewart, Rory Bryant, Chris Gilmore, Sheila Menzies, Mark Streeter, Mr Gary Buck, Ms Karen Glass, Pat Mercer, Patrick Stride, Mel Burnham, rh Andy Glindon, Mrs Mary Metcalfe, Stephen Stuart, Mr Graham Byrne, rh Mr Liam Goggins, rh Paul Miller, Maria Stunell, Andrew Campbell, Mr Alan Goodman, Helen Mills, Nigel Sturdy, Julian Campbell, Mr Ronnie Greatrex, Tom Milton, Anne Swales, Ian Caton, Martin Green, Kate Mordaunt, Penny Swayne, Mr Desmond Chapman, Mrs Jenny Greenwood, Lilian Morgan, Nicky Swinson, Jo Clark, Katy Griffith, Nia Morris, Anne Marie Swire, rh Mr Hugo Clarke, rh Mr Tom Gwynne, Andrew Morris, David Syms, Mr Robert Clwyd, rh Ann Hain, rh Mr Peter Morris, James Tapsell, Sir Peter Coaker, Vernon Hamilton, Mr David Mosley, Stephen Thurso, John Coffey, Ann Hamilton, Fabian Mowat, David Timpson, Mr Edward Cooper, Rosie Hanson, rh Mr David Mulholland, Greg Tomlinson, Justin Cooper, rh Yvette Havard, Mr Dai Mundell, rh David Tredinnick, David Corbyn, Jeremy Healey, rh John Munt, Tessa Truss, Elizabeth Crausby, Mr David Hepburn, Mr Stephen Murray, Sheryll Turner, Mr Andrew Creagh, Mary Heyes, David Murrison, Dr Andrew Tyrie, Mr Andrew Creasy, Stella Hillier, Meg Newton, Sarah Uppal, Paul Cruddas, Jon Hilling, Julie Nokes, Caroline Vaizey, Mr Edward Cryer, John Hodge, rh Margaret Norman, Jesse Vickers, Martin Cunningham, Alex Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Nuttall, Mr David Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Cunningham, Mr Jim Hoey, Kate O’Brien, Mr Stephen Walker, Mr Charles Cunningham, Tony Hood, Mr Jim Offord, Mr Matthew Walker, Mr Robin Curran, Margaret Hosie, Stewart Ollerenshaw, Eric Wallace, Mr Ben Dakin, Nic Howarth, rh Mr George 891 Welfare Reform Bill15 JUNE 2011 Welfare Reform Bill 892

Hunt, Tristram Meacher, rh Mr Michael Shuker, Gavin Walley, Joan Jackson, Glenda Mearns, Ian Skinner, Mr Dennis Watson, Mr Tom James, Mrs Siân C. Michael, rh Alun Slaughter, Mr Andy Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Jamieson, Cathy Miliband, rh David Smith, rh Mr Andrew Whitehead, Dr Alan Jarvis, Dan Miliband, rh Edward Smith, Angela Wicks, rh Malcolm Johnson, rh Alan Miller, Andrew Smith, Nick Williams, Hywel Johnson, Diana Mitchell, Austin Smith, Owen Williamson, Chris Jones, Graham Moon, Mrs Madeleine Spellar, rh Mr John Winnick, Mr David Jones, Helen Morden, Jessica Stuart, Ms Gisela Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Jones, Mr Kevan Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Wishart, Pete Jones, Susan Elan Morris, Grahame M. Tami, Mark Wood, Mike Jowell, rh Tessa (Easington) Thomas, Mr Gareth Woodcock, John Joyce, Eric Mudie, Mr George Timms, rh Stephen Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Munn, Meg Trickett, Jon Wright, David Keeley, Barbara Murphy, rh Mr Jim Turner, Karl Wright, Mr Iain Kendall, Liz Murphy, rh Paul Twigg, Stephen Tellers for the Noes: Khan, rh Sadiq Nandy, Lisa Umunna, Mr Chuka Phil Wilson and Lammy, rh Mr David Nash, Pamela Vaz, Valerie Mark Hendrick Lavery, Ian O’Donnell, Fiona Lazarowicz, Mark Onwurah, Chi Leech, Mr John Osborne, Sandra Question accordingly agreed to. Leslie, Chris Owen, Albert Lewis, Mr Ivan Pearce, Teresa Bill read the Third time and passed. Lloyd, Tony Perkins, Toby Long, Naomi Phillipson, Bridget Love, Mr Andrew Pound, Stephen EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Lucas, Caroline Qureshi, Yasmin Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Lucas, Ian Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Order No. 119(11)), MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Reed, Mr Jamie Mactaggart, Fiona Reeves, Rachel CULTIVATION OF GENETICALLY MODIFIED CROPS Mahmood, Mr Khalid Reynolds, Emma Mahmood, Shabana Reynolds, Jonathan That this House takes note of European Union Document Mann, John Riordan, Mrs Linda No. 12371/10, a Commission Communication on the freedom for Member States to decide on the cultivation of genetically modified Marsden, Mr Gordon Robertson, Angus crops; Document No. C(2010) 4822, a Commission Recommendation McCarthy, Kerry Robertson, John on guidelines for the development of national co-existence measures McClymont, Gregg Robinson, Mr Geoffrey to avoid the unintended presence of Genetically Modified Organisms McCrea, Dr William Rotheram, Steve (GMOs) in conventional and organic crops; and Document McDonagh, Siobhain Roy, Lindsay No. COM(10) 375, a draft Regulation amending Directive 2001/18/EC McDonnell, John Ruane, Chris in relation to the ability of Member States to restrict or prohibit McFadden, rh Mr Pat Ruddock, rh Joan the cultivation of GMOs in their territory; and supports the McGovern, Alison Seabeck, Alison Government’s view that the Commission’s legislative proposal McGovern, Jim Shannon, Jim raises significant concerns and should not be supported by the McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Sharma, Mr Virendra UK.—(Angela Watkinson.) McKechin, Ann Sheerman, Mr Barry McKinnell, Catherine Sheridan, Jim Question agreed to. 893 15 JUNE 2011 Kidderminster Enterprise Zone 894

Kidderminster Enterprise Zone my speech. The economy of the south of the county looks to the rural and research-based drivers in her Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House constituency, and the north of the county looks to the do now adjourn.—(Angela Watkinson.) black country as its engine for growth. It is for this reason that strengthening the advanced manufacturing 7.13 pm base in the north of the county will draw down the manufacturing prosperity of the black country into Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con): I thank the Minister Worcestershire. for his time this evening to hear the case for the Kidderminster enterprise zone bid. I am pleased to be The issues Worcestershire faces are important and able to hold this debate because, I am passionate about the LEP has already got to grips with the major economic the future of the local economy, not just in Kidderminster priorities and challenges that the county will face in the or even in Wyre Forest, but in the whole of Worcestershire. coming years. Crucially, private sector employment shrunk over the past decade by 1%. This trend was more What we are debating this evening is more than just marked in the north of the county, with Kidderminster Kidderminster’s enterprise zone bid. It is about how the seeing an 8% reduction in private sector employment Worcestershire local enterprise partnership has come and Redditch seeing a 14% reduction. That said, Redditch together with enthusiasm and considered the many has a greater proportion of manufacturing jobs in the submissions from across the county, and how the business region, which is encouraging. community has worked through the options and come up with what it believes is the best possible enterprise Moreover, work by the West Midlands Regional zone bid for the whole county. I am delighted to see so Observatory shows that Kidderminster, and to a lesser many Members present, and members of the business extent Redditch, suffer from problems relating to longer- community in Worcestershire have come down this term restructuring and job losses from the contraction evening to show their support for this incredibly important of their industrial base, lower employment rates and bid. higher claimant levels, especially among young people, and a higher proportion of the working-age population Before I speak more specifically about Kidderminster, having no qualifications at all. To deal with those issues, I want to speak about Worcestershire as a whole. I do the LEP sees restructuring the local economy away this because it is important to remember that it is the from public sector jobs, supporting and growing the Worcestershire LEP that has looked carefully at the tourism industry, and building on the industrial assets county and decided that the best option for the county—not in the north as the key priorities. It was with this in just for Wyre Forest—is the Kidderminster business mind that the Worcestershire LEP identified Kidderminster enterprise zone. It is important that it becomes an as the unanimous option for the Worcestershire bid for enterprise zone because it is a strong and early bidder an enterprise zone. for a county-wide enterprise partnership that will bring together business, civic and third sector leaders as an The town of Kidderminster was once the hub of the effective advocate for the whole county. world’s carpet industry, with some 20,000 people employed in that key industry as recently as the ’70s and ’80s. Worcestershire has around 560,000 residents, and Carpets declined as the preferred floor covering, although across the county there are a number of strong but I am pleased to say that that trend is now in reverse. localised industrial specialisms. We have agriculture and food processing in Wychavon and the Malvern hills, research and development in Malvern and Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con): I am automotive-related industries in Bromsgrove and Redditch. listening carefully to what my hon. Friend is saying. It is a great relief to me, as I represent a Staffordshire Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con): Does my hon. Friend constituency, that we are no longer under a regional agree that although the bid from Kidderminster is development agency, as what works in once place in the great, we must all work together with the Worcestershire west midlands does not necessarily work in Staffordshire, LEP to ensure that in future years other areas have so I am delighted that we now have the Staffordshire successful bids, including my constituency? and Stoke-on-Trent LEP. However, I have to stand up for Minton floor tiles and say that, although carpets in Mark Garnier: My hon. Friend makes a good point; Kidderminster are important, floor tiles are equally so. this is about the whole of Worcestershire and it is incredibly important that we work together for this Mark Garnier: They certainly are, but I must say that important opportunity. one cannot get a better carpet than those made in Kidderminster. My hon. Friend makes a good point Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): I thank about Advantage West Midlands, which is now my hon. Friend and neighbour for securing this extremely disappearing. The LEPs are incredibly strong because useful debate. Does he agree that developing the they bring together enterprise and business to try to Kidderminster enterprise zone would be extremely structure what they need economically, and the way in beneficial, particularly for those in the north of my which some enterprise zones in the west midlands have constituency, because it would be so easy for them to come together to take advantage of that opportunity travel to Kidderminster for work? and build on it is very encouraging. I am pleased to see my friend and co-chair of the Mark Garnier: My hon. Friend makes a very good all-party group on the economy of the west midlands, point. The whole point about an enterprise zone is that the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin), in the it will not only help people in the immediate vicinity, Chamber in support, because it is incredibly important but attract many people and a lot of economic activity that we work together across the whole of the west from a fairly wide area—a point I will develop later in midlands to ensure that we have a strong local economy. 895 Kidderminster Enterprise Zone15 JUNE 2011 Kidderminster Enterprise Zone 896

The carpet industry in Kidderminster, as I said, employed include slightly stagnant economic growth, but we will 20,000 people, but now we have fewer than 2,000 working deal with that through local enterprise partnerships and locally in that once-great sector. Having said that, I business expansion zones. must note that Kidderminster produces some of the The development’s knock-on effect will be incredibly finest carpets on the planet, and that is very encouraging. important. The Stourport road corridor runs through Kidderminster and the wider Wyre Forest now find one of the most deprived wards in England and Wales, themselves a post-industrial area, with a handful of Oldington and Foley Park, where almost 8% of residents significant employers but 5,000-plus small and micro- are on jobseeker’s allowance and almost 30% of 18 to businesses. Local unemployment in Wyre Forest stands 24-year-olds are NEETs. There will be not only an at 4.6% overall, but the figure I find most upsetting is immediate impact on local unemployment, but a long-term that of the 18 to 24-year-olds not in education, employment change of prospects for the large numbers of families or training, the so-called NEETs, who number 9.1% against who have been hit by the long-term decline of the an equally tragic but lower 7.2% for the wider county. carpet industry—families whose unemployment can be The Kidderminster and wider Wyre Forest area is measured not in weeks, months or years but, in far too made of stern stuff, and the local district council is keen many cases, in generations. to promote growth. In 2009, Wyre Forest district council Specifically, it is anticipated that growth in the created a private-led regeneration project known as the Kidderminster business park will come from a mix of ReWyre initiative, which is helping to drive forward the new businesses moving to the area, the expansion of economic growth of local businesses in Wyre Forest existing businesses benefiting from the local economic and, combined with the new LEP private enterprise, stimulus and, importantly, the creation of new businesses, taking a firm lead in driving forward economic regeneration. all of which will take advantage of the local mix of Owing to that already strong local drive and the early good and available skills, existing supply-chain businesses, establishment of the Worcestershire LEP, the opportunity the availability of land and existing property for immediate for a Kidderminster enterprise zone was seized unanimously. use and, of course, the incentives available through the The proposal is to establish an enterprise zone, the enterprise zone. South Kidderminster business park, in an area broadly The existing and well established ReWyre initiative defined by two main arterial roads through the district, and the Worcestershire LEP, working together in the Stourport road and Worcester road business corridors. partnership, will manage and implement the enterprise There is already significant economic activity in those zone. Not only will they draw up a flexible and sustainable areas, and, although some 3 hectares of previously investment plan for the zone, but crucially they will speculatively developed site is available for immediate create a single, strong marketing identity, developing a occupation, a further 44.5 hectares of brownfield site is vision for the zone and the district for the next one or available for redevelopment and the specific needs of two decades. South Kidderminster business park already new and relocating businesses to the enterprise zone. benefits from an up-to-date local development framework, It is anticipated that that redevelopment alone will with the Wyre Forest core strategy having been adopted bring some 4,000 new jobs to Kidderminster and Wyre in December last year. The core strategy already identifies Forest, and importantly not just the people of the fact that South Kidderminster business park will Kidderminster but the wider county of Worcestershire offer attractive, accessible and high-quality employment will benefit from those jobs. It is anticipated also that locations. The area also provides a strong and clear the enterprise zone’s local stimulus will benefit many basis for the designation of local development orders, existing businesses and create new jobs in the wider simplifying planning requirements and thus accelerating area, particularly in the towns of Stourport-on-Severn, development opportunities. Bewdley and Redditch. What is important about the Kidderminster business zone bid is that there are qualified, work-ready people Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): I congratulate the willing to take on work immediately. I recently spoke to hon. Gentleman on securing this debate and commend a local employer who was advertising for new staff and him on his valuable work for and great contribution to who told me that he was inundated with good-quality the all-party group that we have established for the candidates, all of whom he could have taken on. That is regional economy. Does he agree that it is not just the as good an indicator as any of a willing and ready work towns of Stourport, Bewdley and Kidderminster that force available to meet the needs of new businesses in will benefit from the establishment of the enterprise Kidderminster. zone, but the black country towns of Dudley, Sandwell, The Wyre Forest and Kidderminster area is an incredibly Walsall and Wolverhampton? If greater enterprise, more wonderful place to live. At that all-important final jobs and prosperity can be brought to areas such as meeting when the managing director of a company Kidderminster, that will only benefit the constituents I seeking to relocate to a town such as Kidderminster has represent just a few miles away in the black country, and to discuss moving home with his or her family, I am sure that is why I assure the hon. Gentleman that the bid will that the family members will relish the opportunity of receive my support and, no doubt, that of other black living in an area with outstanding natural beauty, fascinating country MPs. towns, excellent nearby shopping, good schools, and a wide range of activities to keep any family healthy and Mark Garnier: I am incredibly grateful to the hon. happy. [Interruption.] And good carpets, yes. Gentleman for that intervention. It shows the cross-party I am here to urge the Minister to do everything he can support for the local economy in the black country and to help Kidderminster’s bid to pass successfully through the west midlands, and that we are all coming together the selection process. The ingredients for success are to try to support the local economy, to move things already there. We have an available and willing work forward and to deal with the issues that face us. They force ready for immediate employment. We have available 897 Kidderminster Enterprise Zone15 JUNE 2011 Kidderminster Enterprise Zone 898

[Mark Garnier] and his colleagues from Worcestershire have come to the House today shows the depth of support for the space for new businesses to take up immediately. We case that my hon. Friend mentions. have a local development plan already in place supporting The coalition agreement, which was published a year South Kidderminster business park. We have a local ago, sets out two overriding aims for the Government’s business organisation—the ReWyre initiative—already term of office. The first was to get the economy back on in place to drive the Kidderminster enterprise zone track. The second was to achieve an historic shift in forward. We have the unanimous support of the local power and influence from central Government to local enterprise partnership behind Kidderminster. We have communities. What we are discussing encapsulates both the will to rebalance the local economy towards private aims. It is about living up to economic potential and sector employment. realising that by giving communities their head and the Crucially, an enterprise zone in Kidderminster will ability to drive growth themselves. help to enable our third sector partners who work in This policy addresses the situation that we had before more challenging areas to prepare the long-term the election. My hon. Friend referred to the artificial unemployed for long-term employment. It will raise constraints that divided some areas of the country and aspirations, drive economic regeneration and give breadth forced others into an uncomfortable relationship. The to the wider Worcestershire economy. I invite the Minister previous approach of regional development agencies to visit, because I am sure that he will agree that there is being imposed from the top down clearly went against no better candidate for a business expansion zone than the grain of our historical geography and of how people Kidderminster. live their lives locally. To that extent, it suppressed rather than enhanced the ability of different parts of 7.27 pm the country to establish their economic identity in the same way that they have always had different characters. The Minister of State, Department for Communities Part of the purpose of this degree of decentralisation is and Local Government (Greg Clark): How can I resist to empower different parts of the country to prosper such an invitation when my hon. Friend the Member economically. for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier) has extolled the virtues of Kidderminster, and indeed Worcestershire, in such Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): lyrical terms that I am surprised that every Member Has the Minister given any consideration to allowing a present is not changing their holiday plans to spend the local enterprise partnership to have more than one summer there? enterprise zone at the same time if they are of a small I sincerely congratulate my hon. Friend on securing size? Such an approach would suit an enterprise zone in this debate on enterprise zones in general, and the town of Coalville in Leicestershire in my constituency. Kidderminster in particular. I was enormously impressed Greg Clark: My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. by the chorus of approval that greeted him when he got I did not include Leicestershire in my list of places that to his feet, not only from Members from Worcestershire, are represented. One characteristic of local enterprise welcome though their support is, but from all over the partnerships is that they are of different sizes. We have country—Staffordshire, Dudley, Brighton, Yorkshire and made it clear in the guidance that we expect an LEP to Oxfordshire. If he is so skilled in putting together such a make one nomination, but I hear what he says and supportive chorus for the Kidderminster bid, I think it other parts of the country, especially areas that have will fare well. larger LEPs, have made a similar point. I will certainly I have to be careful in what I say; my hon. Friend reflect on that. places me in a difficult position. He will understand The purpose of LEPs is not just to reflect, though that the application process is still open—it closes later they do, the economic geography of the areas that they this month—and that it would be invidious of me to cover. In contrast to the previous approach, whereby favour the claims of Kidderminster above those from areas had to conform to regions that were administratively other parts of the country. However, he has put the determined in Whitehall rather than locally, when my merits of Kidderminster forcefully on the record and colleagues and I considered how we could establish into my mind. LEPs nine months ago, we gave careful thought to what areas they should cover and came to the decision that Ian Austin: I am delighted to hear the Minister accept we should give people the chance to nominate the most the invitation to visit Kidderminster. When he does appropriate areas and to specify the natural connections. that, would he prepared to make a short detour—just I feel justified in giving people that possibility, because 12 miles or so up the road—to visit Dudley to examine LEPs have been formed that frankly would not have the case for Government support for measures that will been invented in the Government. They represent a bring enterprise, new industries and new jobs to my reality on the ground that does not conform to the constituency so that we can see growth right across not uniformity that tends to come from the central Government only Worcestershire but the black country? approach. My hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest is Greg Clark: I would be very happy to extend my trip vigorous in his promotion of the Worcestershire local to include the black country as well as Worcestershire. enterprise partnership. I think also of north-east England, Let me take the opportunity to set out some of the where the Tees valley—my home town of Middlesbrough background to the process that has resulted in such an and the surrounding towns—has asserted its unique enthusiastic bid from Kidderminster. Like my hon. characteristics. It wants to have a strong voice and Friend, I pay tribute to and recognise the breadth of to take advantage of the opportunities that have been support that he has been given. The fact that Mr Woodman presented, which in many cases were submerged in the 899 Kidderminster Enterprise Zone15 JUNE 2011 Kidderminster Enterprise Zone 900 old region of the north-east, important though the up and running with good speed, so that the opportunities connections are across that wider area. Other LEPs for the areas in question and for the country are maximised. recognise the natural economic connections between parts I know that if it is successful, the enterprise zone bid of the country, even though they may be in different that his LEP has made will bring with it an enthusiasm counties. For example, the Coast to Capital LEP covers to get on with it. the area from Croydon down to Brighton. The area has On what an enterprise zone comprises, first, as my a lot in common and businesses see it as important. hon. Friend knows, it will involve a 100% relief from Recognising the appropriate areas was the first step, business rates, worth up to £275,000 over a five-year but the second was to ensure that local enterprise period. All the business rate growth generated by the partnerships were genuine partnerships—combinations zone for a period of at least 25 years will be kept by the of business, local communities, the voluntary sector LEP for reinvestment in the wider area. Greatly simplified and social enterprises. All the bids that we approved planning zones will be in place through local development represented strong partnerships, with a degree of enthusiasm orders, making applications quicker and more certain that has been striking. There is greater enthusiasm than for developers, and the Government will ensure that can be obtained from a body that is a creature of superfast broadband is rolled out across the zones. government. The fact that the bid my hon. Friend That is the set menu, the standard elements that will described enjoys such strong business support is testament be common to all local enterprise zones. However, the to how energy can be tapped if business and communities fact that they will be driven and promoted by the LEPs get the chance to work together. means that those elements can be adapted and The approach that we are taking in encouraging local supplemented to reflect the particular needs and priorities enterprise partnerships to make decisions locally in the of the area. There will be an opportunity to consider best interests of their population is reflected in other the use of tax increment financing to support the long-term parts of our policy. In planning, we are introducing viability of a zone. Some aspects of local government reforms inspired by the work that my hon. Friend the funding are being reviewed in the local government Member for Henley (John Howell) performed for the resource review that is taking place. party in opposition, which will give local communities We are determined that the local enterprise partnership the opportunity to influence and shape their area. That should nominate an enterprise zone for consideration. is not just about housing, important though that is. That is the right approach, rather than Ministers centrally Communities everywhere in the country want to have deciding where a zone will be. That should be a local regard to their future economic prosperity, and it is decision. important to give them the chance to promote a local Some enterprise zones were nominated in the first plan and neighbourhood plan that reflect their best wave, but my hon. Friend makes a case for the second traditions and their potential, rather than make them wave. Let me say something on the timetable for that. conform to a high-level regional strategy that does not He will know that formal bids are due by 30 June. We represent and reflect the different localities within it. hope to announce the successful LEPs during the summer. My hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest said that He will know that it would be inappropriate for me to his local council has its core strategy in place, which go any further and to anticipate the outcome of that puts it in a strong position to take advantage of the new process, but it is obvious, from what he said and from planning powers, including neighbourhood plans. In the support that he has had from colleagues on both some areas, business will want to take a leading role in sides of the House, just how much support his proposal those plans along with residents, and I dare say that attracts. That is encouraging. may be the case in Kidderminster. My officials are already working closely with the Through the new homes bonus and reforms to the Worcestershire LEP and Kidderminster representatives community infrastructure levy, we want to ensure that some on plans for the area. One thing that we have been of the benefits of growth stay within the community, so particularly impressed by is the strong sense of local that they can be used to reinforce that growth and ensure partnership between elected members, including councillors, that it is genuinely sustainable. People who live in an businesses and the voluntary sector. The bid is therefore area must have a genuine reason to say yes to growth. a strong one, but we are expecting other strong bids Up and down the country, the local enterprise from other areas of the country—this is a competitive partnerships that we have established are already setting process. Whatever happens, the enthusiasm and volition a vision for the future. They are driving growth, planning to encourage growth by doing things differently locally for new infrastructure and seeking to attract jobs and does not rest entirely on the bid. The LEP has many investment. I know that the Worcestershire LEP, in powers available to it—for example, to create a simplified particular, is in the vanguard of the movement nationally. planning zone, or to promote discounts in business Let me say a word about enterprise zones themselves. rates for certain types of businesses in particular areas. As my hon. Friend knows, they were announced in this It can go ahead with such initiatives even in anticipation year’s Budget, and we want to see 21 of them across of an enterprise zone, and take other opportunities England. We want them to be hothouses for growth and whether or not its bid is successful. places in which we create the conditions for the public My hon. Friend has put a very strong case firmly on and private sectors to work closely together to create the record, and he does not have too much longer to new jobs, set up new firms and attract new investment. wait before he hears the result of his passionate advocacy They are there to help places with strong potential to in the House today. grow to do so quickly, and he has made a strong case for Question put and agreed to. Kidderminster having that potential. There is to be no hanging about, and we will make the decisions during 7.42 pm the summer. It is important that the enterprise zones are House adjourned.

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manufacturing as part of a private sector-led recovery is Westminster Hall at the centre of the Government’s plans, and I commend that approach. After all, it is far more sustainable to Wednesday 15 June 2011 grow our way out of a recession than to spend our way out of it. However, the need to rebalance the economy in favour of the private sector applies beyond the boundaries [MR GARY STREETER in the Chair] of the north and the midlands. It is a concern to my constituents and many of my colleagues here today that SMEs (South of England) only one project in south-east England succeeded in the first round of regional growth fund applications, as Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting opposed to 14 in the north-east. The Government’s be now adjourned.—(Mr Prisk.) analysis of the first round RGF grants makes for interesting reading. The maps provided on the Department for 9.30 am Business, Innovation and Skills website show a stark Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): Thank you, contrast between the money diverted north and support Mr Streeter, for allowing me to raise this important for projects in the south. topic. As a director of a small business based in the I represent one of a cluster of constituencies in the south of England, I fall squarely into a category that Solent area that, together, share all the characteristics of necessitates me to declare an interest in the subject towns and cities in the north of England: public sector matter. However, holding such a position also allows dependency, low average wages, low levels of educational me to share some first-hand experience with hon. Members. attainment and areas of multiple deprivation. On most Small and medium-sized enterprises hold the key to a measurable scales, including unemployment and business successful private sector-led economic recovery in the growth, Gosport is well behind some of the areas UK. At a recent UK Trade & Investment maritime further north that continue to enjoy strong economic sector meeting, I learned that the proportion of UK support from the Government. exports accounted for by SMEs was 5% below the If we were to plonk Gosport in the middle of the European average. If the UK were simply to raise that north, it would be the second worst performing local level to the average, it would generate a staggering authority area in the entire north-east in terms of £43.6 billion of additional GDP.That is enough to wipe public sector job dependency. It would also have the out the UK’s current account deficit two times over. It is third worst ratio of jobs to people in that region, with important to keep that in mind when discussing SMEs. less than half a job per working adult, whereas the These businesses may be small, but they have truly English national average is 0.8% of a job. With its enormous power to drive our economy. number of active businesses per 10,000 residents being In previous debates in this Chamber, I have highlighted just 25.5, Gosport is the 13th worst performing area in factors that afflict small businesses and limit their growth. that regard in the entire UK. Almost 35% of working In particular, I raised my concerns about the creeping adults in the constituency are employed by the public trend of larger businesses putting unfair influence on sector, which is one of the highest such dependency supply chain companies, such as by extending their rates in the entire country, and that is before counting payment terms, and the continuing difficulties small the thousands of people who work in the armed forces, businesses face in trying to secure funding from banks. especially the Royal Navy, and who call Gosport their That context is important as we should not view the home. Government’s role in isolation from all the other factors Gosport is at least as reliant on public sector jobs as affecting small businesses. cities further north, yet it appears to have been excluded I strongly believe that the Government “get it” when from wider Government support. Certain Government it comes to SMEs, and they have made it clear that they measures to promote the growth of the private sector support their growth and longevity. They continue to have also been denied to the south-east as a whole. I am, put pressure on the big banks to increase their lending of course, speaking of the national insurance contribution to small businesses. They have reinvigorated the enterprise exemption for start-up businesses. I cannot help but finance guarantee scheme and established a number of find that decision a little unfair as research by the new, highly targeted grants. It is clear that the Minister Forum of Private Business shows that 51% of businesses and his Department are working extremely hard to put in the south-east considered taxation to be the greatest UK companies on a firm footing. barrier to growth, which is the highest proportion in the UK. When the Minister visited my constituency, he will have seen a site called Daedalus, a former naval airbase Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con): I that now serves as home to a number of small aviation congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. and marine-based businesses. This vast site is being Although Portsmouth fares slightly better than Gosport, promoted as a potential enterprise zone by the Solent we are still described as a northern town on the south local economic partnership, which will also submit a coast. Does my hon. Friend know that we fall far short regional growth fund grant application to support its of the Treasury’s projections and ambitions for the redevelopment as a hub for business innovation for the national insurance contribution holiday? Although that entire region. I hope the Minister appreciates the importance might have been the right policy to start with, it is not of the redevelopment of that site for the future prosperity having the desired effect. Now would be a good time to of the constituency. expand the criteria for qualification to include not just It is clear that the Minister also understands the need different geographic locations and start-ups, but small for the job market to end its over-reliance on the public businesses that hope to expand substantially over the sector. The need to encourage growth, commerce and next few years. 257WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 258WH

Caroline Dinenage: My hon. Friend makes an excellent 37,809 jobs indirectly. By comparison, in the south-east point. It is worth noting that between 2007 and 2010 the and east of England combined, the RGF has created south-east experienced the highest increase in deprivation just 427 jobs directly and 361 jobs indirectly. It is in the UK. Will the Minister tell us what criteria the therefore clear that the south gets next to no support Government used in making the decision to exclude the from the RGF or enterprise zone designations. Moreover, south-east from NI relief? Government responses to firms in the south have to pay higher national insurance that question usually state that the focus is to support contributions than firms in other parts of the country. areas that have traditionally relied more heavily on For me and the majority of my constituents—who public sector employment, and they are usually thought work in a peninsula where there is, on average, less than to be the north and the midlands. That same description, half a job per working adult—that is a bitter pill to however, could also be applied to a number of constituencies swallow. in the south, including mine. Furthermore, the exclusion Statistics can also misinform. If anyone looked at the of the south-east has a doubly negative effect on Gosport, data for private sector jobs created in Gosport, they as it creates a disincentive to business to choose to would be led to believe that we are supporting a growing locate in the area—which should be a prime area for economy. Unfortunately, that “growth” comes as a direct regeneration according to the Government’s own result of public sector elements of the Ministry of objectives—over more affluent areas of the north that Defence being privatised. For example, Fleetlands, which are indiscriminately provided with Government support is the biggest employer in my constituency, has been that they might neither need nor warrant. privatised, becoming Vector Aerospace. That company is now in the private sector, but there are no new jobs. In David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): May I declare reality, every year in Gosport more businesses go bust that I have an interest in the business sector in Northern than are created. Officials must look beyond simple Ireland? I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this numbers and qualifying criteria when making decisions debate. Earlier in her speech, she mentioned banks and about which areas are in the greatest need of help. The credits to small businesses, and I am sure she will share south as a whole has benefited from the creation of my concern about some of the findings of recent research large numbers of private sector jobs in the past. It papers on banks and the money being loaned to small should not be punished for being successful in that businesses. The bankers have stated that they never regard, and nor should those areas in the south that promised to meet the Government targets; they say that need help be excluded from Government support solely they only promised to make the money available. Leading on the basis of geography. economists say nothing has changed in the manufacturing I understand that the apportioning of Government sector. In fact, over the past 12 months under this new funding to support business cannot be seen as a local Government, we have not seen any change from the issue. Of course Government funding must focus on banks, and small businesses, which are the backbone of achieving wider goals, and must be allowed to maximise the UK economy, are suffering greatly. the benefit of the schemes it supports for the greatest number of people. I also understand that the RGF and Caroline Dinenage: The hon. Gentleman makes a enterprise zone applications are subject to independent strong point. Yesterday, I met a small business owner in scrutiny, which is as it should be. However, I believe that my constituency who is on the brink of losing his many people have a misconception that the south of business and his house. Against a property that is worth England is a universally prosperous region. I hope that £500,000, the bank will only lend him £50,000, which I have made it clear that Gosport is certainly not goes nowhere near far enough towards supporting him universally prosperous, and I am sure that my colleagues in trying to keep his business and his family together. would all be able to provide evidence of areas within Although the Government clearly recognise that there their own constituencies that are desperately in need of are pockets of need in the south-east, it is thought to be regeneration. extremely difficult to target national insurance investment Despite the difficulties private partnerships in my at a sub-regional level. That may be the case, but such area face, I have been very impressed by some of their difficulties are not insurmountable. My constituents achievements. One such partnership received support should not have to accept not receiving help they badly from NatWest and Lombard to fund the purchase of a need purely because it is felt that giving them that help large milling machine worth nearly £500,000 by two would be too difficult. Gosport businesses, Marine Concepts Ltd and the Curvature Group. This new joint venture has allowed UK companies to produce components for a wide Penny Mordaunt: On that point, we know from questions variety of sectors, including marine, renewable energy, tabled to the Treasury that the costs of providing that aviation and motor sport. Those sectors had previously help, either at a unitary authority level or a district level, required the services of businesses as far afield as Australia would not be so prohibitively high as to stop such a in order to meet their requirements. Such investment is scheme going ahead. creating real jobs as well as preserving the UK’s reputation as a centre for innovative manufacturing. That has been Caroline Dinenage: That is excellent news, and I achieved by advanced manufacturing businesses successfully know my hon. Friend has done a lot of work on this repositioning themselves from serving the Royal Navy issue, for which I am very grateful. to serving private clients across the world. I now want to highlight the significant benefits the However, for every such partnership, there is another regional growth fund has brought to certain regions. In business struggling with the structural deficit left behind the north of England, the RGF has so far created by a radically changed market, which in the case of 10,750 jobs directly and 10,916 jobs indirectly, and in Gosport has been caused by the contraction of the the midlands it has so far created 7,923 jobs directly and Royal Navy. Such businesses are willing to adapt, but 259WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 260WH they are unable to do so without help. For the past If I may stray briefly beyond discussion of the south 700 years, Gosport—and, in fact, the whole Portsmouth to make a broader national point, I would also welcome area—has relied on the military to support its entire clarification from the Minister about how applications economy and employment. Much like a mining town or for regional growth funding and enterprise zone status manufacturing centre, the contraction of our armed are co-ordinated. As he will be aware, the RGF is forces has been intrinsically linked with the falling administered by an independent board under BIS, but fortunes of the local economy. However, when the size the enterprise zone project is administered by the of the military declines, areas that are dependent on the Department for Communities and Local Government. military are not provided with the same level of Government Some people involved in putting forward bids have said protection as mining or industrial towns in decline. they are confused about how applications for both Gosport needs to be seen not only as an area with schemes by a single local enterprise partnership will be economic problems, but as an area with the potential to viewed. I would welcome a reassurance from the Minister reinvigorate itself, given the right encouragement. All that both Departments involved have a clear understanding the businesses situated on the Daedalus site understand of how each scheme complements the other, and I ask the potential for growth. They are not looking for him to consider providing guidance on how dual Government handouts. What they need are a few key applications can be dealt with, and to say whether such measures that can help them create a viable business an approach would prejudice the likelihood of success. I and the employment that comes with that. might add that the application deadlines for both schemes First, they need certainty over the Daedalus site’s are, after all, on the same day. future. Historically, the site has been owned by many different Government agencies. There is a runway, yet Penny Mordaunt: Does my hon. Friend agree that it small aviation businesses have sometimes not been allowed would also be helpful if the Treasury were to allow a access to the site. Those businesses have not had the relaxation of competitive tendering rules? She identified incentives to invest, nor the certainty that if they were the regeneration of Portsmouth harbour, which would to invest, they would be allowed to grow and flourish. benefit not only Gosport and Portsmouth, but Fareham They also need targeted tax and planning concessions, and other nearby towns. However, that regeneration improved infrastructure and a level playing field; in can only happen if the Treasury enables those rules to other words, everything that an enterprise zone would be relaxed. Clarification on that issue would also be provide. helpful. All the businesses based in or around the Daedalus Caroline Dinenage: My hon. Friend makes an excellent site are looking to expand, and they are prepared to point. As she says, many parts of the Portsmouth spend money to do so. I spoke to the owner of one of harbour area would benefit from that type of help. them yesterday, who said that he was prepared to invest many thousands of pounds to take over a decrepit old I believe the case for business improvement measures building and turn it into a modern, state-of-the-art in my constituency is compelling—indeed, overwhelming business premises, yet he had only been able to secure a —as does the Solent LEP. I am certain that there are 10-year lease from the regional development agency. colleagues in Westminster Hall today from constituencies Offering such a short lease is just not good business. across the south of England who feel the same about Many of the businesses on the site want to source projects in their own areas. Therefore, I would welcome local people to undertake apprenticeships or engage a reassurance from the Minister that, first, he is aware skilled engineers who are leaving the armed forces. The of our concerns, and, secondly, he will do all he can to social benefits to my constituency—where 20% of 16 to support and encourage the growth of small and medium- 23-year-olds are not in education, employment or sized businesses in the south. training—are clear, and this would help many young people realise their potential. 9.49 am The lesson is obvious. If businesses feel secure enough Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): Thank you, to invest and have potential orders waiting in the wings, Mr Streeter, for calling me to speak. they will expand. Enterprise zones can create that security, I congratulate the hon. Member for Gosport (Caroline while entrepreneurial business people have never had Dinenage) on securing this debate, which raises important problems in generating business. issues. As she said, they are important because small The Daedalus site also lends itself perfectly to the businesses are vital for jobs, sustainable growth and wider qualifying criteria for an enterprise zone. Its prosperity, and because it is crucial that our region does green credentials are fulfilled by providing opportunities not become stereotyped by the Government or others for local employment, rather than necessitating long to our disadvantage. commutes by car. That would also have the benefit of relieving the pressure on the infamous A32, the only As the hon. Lady demonstrated by citing the statistics major road from Gosport that leads into the heart of about her own constituency, the truth is that there are the peninsula. The pressure placed on a beleaguered wide variations in employment, wage rates, small business transport system burdens my constituents with hours of formation and success within regions as well as between congestion, particularly during peak periods, as traffic them. The particular needs of our region are not the struggles through bottlenecks, and 20,000 people have same everywhere in the region. As well as being supportive to out-commute to get to work every day. Gosport is the of small businesses in general, policy needs to be sensitive largest town in the UK without a railway station. Therefore, to the particular circumstances of each local economy Gosport not only needs inward investment; it deserves and its small businesses. it. That would finally allow the area to realise its full Judging by the experience of my constituency and potential, and I am confident that it would also act as a local economy, we could be forgiven for thinking that beacon for investment from the private sector. the Government do not want economic growth in our 261WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 262WH

[Mr Andrew Smith] public sector employment will get the help, whereas areas in the south that are very reliant on public sector region at all. Oxford is an incredibly vibrant economy, jobs, such as my own constituency and that of the hon. with lots of small businesses that have spun off from or Lady, will not. are servicing our successful universities and hospitals, I wish to touch on another issue. One of the biggest the Mini plant, and publishing and other high-tech problems facing small businesses is access to credit, and enterprises, but some decisions that the Government the failure to hit the targets for bank lending to small have taken are limiting rather than encouraging growth, and medium-sized enterprises under Project Merlin will small business success and job generation. hold back small business growth at the very time and in One of the biggest constraints that we face in Oxford the very places where we need it most. is housing and developable land. I have no doubt that I would also just like to flag up business rates, which our local economy could achieve much more economic are another huge problem for small businesses. I growth if there were more houses for people to live in acknowledge that the Government have tried to provide and more premises for small businesses, but one of the some help in that area, but because of the high rental first things that this Government did was to scrap the values in many parts of the south, business rates, which south-east plan and set their face against any change to are based on them, tend to be higher, and therefore the the Oxford green belt, thereby blocking both much-needed costs of setting up and operating a small business have a housing that was already being planned and the Magdalen double whammy effect on the cost of premises. college science park extension. The tight local authority boundaries that we have in Oxford give the neighbouring I could say a lot more, but I know that a number of local authorities an absolute veto over our expansion, a other speakers are keen to get in. I have not yet mentioned veto that they do not hesitate to exercise, even on land the knock-on effect of cutting the teaching grant to of very limited ecological or amenity value. universities by 80% and the trebling of fees, the alienation of other small business organisations by the preference The second hammer blow that I have to refer to are given to the British Chambers of Commerce as co-ordinator the incredibly ill-judged and damaging measures aimed of the local economic partnerships, the damage of cuts at cutting the number of people coming from overseas to investment in the transport infrastructure of the to learn English here. That is a problem not only in south—to which the hon. Lady also referred—and the Oxford, but in Bournemouth, Brighton and other southern interesting recent Institute of Directors report, which coastal towns, and it will, I fear, inflict incalculable showed small businesses benefiting less from Government damage on English language courses and schools that changes to business taxation than larger ones. have been generating about £1.5 billion for the UK economy, much of it in southern England. That all adds The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation to the bureaucratic minefield for these kinds of educational and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): Was the right hon. Gentleman businesses and colleges, and the Government’s much- hoping to get on to the £500 million investment by vaunted moratorium on red tape clearly does not apply BMW in his constituency, and the important help that here. Much of the complexity, as English UK has said, the company has cited as coming from the Government “results from the UK Border Agency trying to legislate in educational to enable the investment? matters which are not its proper remit and where it neither has expertise nor has shown any great inclination to listen to those who do.” Mr Smith: If we are being absolutely honest here there is an important continuity in automotive policy As well as the economic and reputational damage that concerning the building blocks of that investment. The the changes will inflict on the wider international education hon. Gentleman may seek to make a party political sector in which the UK has an important strategic point but I will not. We all have to pull together for the competitive advantage, they will hit the micro-businesses success of the automotive industry, and I am enormously of many host families who supplement their income by proud of what BMW has achieved with the Mini, and accommodating overseas language students. of the strength of the partnership with the work force I come to the third hammer blow. The hon. Lady and the local community, which is making such a success referred to the regionally discriminatory holiday on of the initiative. I have already referred to the Mini national insurance contributions for new businesses, plant as an important source of business for small and asked about the rationale for that. I have had a look enterprises in our area. Those enterprises benefit from at the Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs website the business that BMW generates in the supply chain, where there is a Q and A—question and answer—section. and from the spending power of the work force. It asks: I want to conclude by underlining that it is wrong to “Why does the Holiday not apply in London, the South East see small business support as a zero-sum game between and the East?” the south and other parts of the UK. The south is an and the answer given is: engine of the UK economy, and the wealth that we “The scheme is intended to promote the formation of new generate benefits directly and indirectly other parts of businesses employing staff in those countries and regions most the country, just as we will benefit from successful reliant on public sector employment. The proportion of jobs in regeneration and from tackling deprivation elsewhere. the public sector is higher in other countries and regions than it is We need a proper sustainable growth strategy for small in the Greater South East (London, the South East and the businesses in the south, as in other regions, which East).” focuses on improving skills and infrastructure, cutting Even if we accept the logic of that approach, it is unnecessary red tape, nurturing enterprise, keeping down obvious that the regional criterion is unfairly broad-brush taxes and overhead costs, and ensuring that the planning because it must mean that new businesses in local system facilitates rather than strangles sustainable growth economies in other parts of the UK that have low and small business formation. By initiating this debate, 263WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 264WH the hon. Lady has done us a particular service by calling work, but we should consider more carefully the concept to wider attention the danger that complacent of a flat tax. It would be simple to apply. The suggestion generalisations about the state of the small business that national insurance and income tax be integrated, economy in the south risk killing the geese that are even if that is simply a matter of administration, is laying the golden eggs. welcome, but I urge that consideration also be given to VAT. Thresholds are not consistent across Europe, and Several hon. Members rose— many small businesses get to a cliff. There is a disincentive to do more than a certain amount of business, because Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Wind-ups will begin businesses that get to the threshold must spend an awful at 20 minutes to 11. Seven colleagues are seeking to lot of time earning an awful lot more money before they catch my eye, so by my rough calculation that is about break even. There must be a way to solve that problem. six minutes each if we are to get everyone in. I am I welcome the Treasury’s reduction in the small profit leaving it to you to regulate yourselves. rate. The Institute of Directors tax burden report for 2011 identified it as particularly helpful to micro-businesses, which it defines as businesses having fewer than five 9.58 am employees. However, the Institute of Directors says that Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con): Thank it is a one-off win and that micro-businesses will not you, Mr Streeter. I shall endeavour to be brief. I am derive the same benefit as small and medium-sized here, in large part, to give voice to the south-west, where businesses. It would be good to review what we do with we have a particular problem with support for small the small profit rate of corporation tax. and, I would argue, micro-businesses, which are the The enterprise allowance for jobseekers is an excellent lifeblood of our economy. idea—clearly, some new micro-businesses will be started I should first pay tribute to what the Government by the unemployed—but limiting it to those receiving have already done to help us. They have reduced corporation jobseeker’s allowance, although a good start, might tax; we have the national insurance holiday for new restrict the benefit brought by the scheme. To illustrate, businesses, and the extension of the small business rate I bring to the Minister’s attention an initiative at Portsmouth relief is very much to be welcomed. Given that my cause university, which works with graduates to support them, is very much that of micro-businesses, which make up helping them bid to start new businesses and using local two thirds of my local economy by number of businesses business people to mentor them. The university then and 15% financially, I am really pleased about the works with the angel group to see how it can support micro-business exemption from domestic regulation. graduates, but there is no tax incentive. Maybe one way That is exactly the sort of measure that we should be forward is to look at the enterprise investment scheme seeing more of. and consider whether we can create some form of Perhaps it is helpful to clarify what I mean by a EIS-lite. micro-business. We talk about small and medium Employment is the biggest barrier for most micro- enterprises; one passing reference was made to a micro- businesses. I am pleased by the proposal to allow tribunals business. The Minister might be keen to consider defining for unfair dismissal to kick in only after two years. That micro-businesses in legislation so that we can support is welcome. I am also pleased by the suggestion of an them. Micro-businesses have been defined in various employers’ charter. I point out to the Minister that way different countries precisely so that they can be given back in the 1970s, small businesses were given certain particular help and support, including tax carve-outs carve-outs from employment legislation. There may be and exemption from regulation. That happens in Australia lessons to be learned, and the matter might be worth and in some states in the US. At the moment, we in the reviewing. UK largely use the EU definition of a micro-business, Health and safety is the other big bogey in the room. which is a business with up to 10 employees and a Lord Young has done a first-class job. The exemptions turnover of ¤2 million. For this country, that is huge. I from risk assessment that he suggests for low-risk businesses do not believe that it is an appropriate definition for this are to be welcomed. I strongly urge the Minister to economy. consider negotiating with the Health and Safety I submit, on the basis of analysis that I have undertaken Commission. At the moment, businesses with fewer of Office for National Statistics figures and am happy than five employees are exempt from some requirements, to share, that a more helpful definition would be an but there is a risk that the commission will change its organisation with fewer than five employees and a mind. It is important. turnover of less than £250,000. That way, the Government Perhaps I have given the Minister food for thought. could specifically target help at such businesses, and it Many of the initiatives that I have discussed would be would not be quite as expensive as targeting a larger welcomed across the whole south, not just the south-west, group. That group would include plumbers, electricians and micro-businesses would be delighted. and other businesses that are crucial to any rural or deprived urban economy. It would also, inevitably, cover start-ups, which are essential whether they grow to be 10.5 am successful or remain in a steady state. I argue that Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): I congratulate micro-businesses will create the most jobs, which we my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline badly need. In America, it is claimed that 90% of new Dinenage) on securing this debate on an issue that is jobs after the downturn were created in that sector. important to the long-term economy of not only the I suggest that we need to reduce the cost and complexity south and south-east but the UK more widely. As a that apply to micro-businesses. Tax is an obvious issue, former small business man, I am acutely aware of the and the Office of Tax Simplification has done good stresses and strains involved in running and building 265WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 266WH

[Simon Kirby] both individually and collectively through bodies such as PUSH, the Partnership for Urban South Hampshire, companies as an economy emerges from recession. I and the local enterprise partnership, are working hard will not say much, as I do not wish to detain hon. to promote regeneration and stimulate enterprise and Members for too long, but I would like to make three or growth. four points. Southampton city council in particular has pushed First, at a macro level, we must ensure that business ahead with plans to regenerate the city. It has made support for new and developing businesses is clear. I am some striking differences to the cityscape and to employment told that there is little support at present and that the opportunities, and has promoted the city relentlessly as private sector has yet to take up the slack. I am interested a place to do business and to establish companies, to know what the Minister has to say about that. ideally located as it is, with a major international port, Secondly, the interest rates that banks charge businesses, an airport on the edge of the city and opportunities for when they do provide working capital, are still an issue. excellent university education, not to mention easy access I understand that interest rates of 20% can be charged, to beautiful countryside, the coastline and superb although the Bank of England rate is only 0.5%. How recreational opportunities. The city has 7,600 companies, are businesses supposed to cope with such rates and still with 120,000 people employed, but it does not have the make a profit? support of enterprise zones, and has no national insurance More locally, I am pleased to report that high-speed exemption for start-ups and no structural funding from internet implementation is making its way across my Europe. constituency, which will enable a major change in how How much more could have been achieved for this goods and services are transmitted and provide the regional hub with the same level of support that cities in infrastructure for new services. Enhancements in speed the north received? Would 32% of the work force still be bring new opportunities for business. I am delighted reliant on the public sector? that BT announced yesterday that its exchange in Brighton, Kemptown will be upgraded to give 34,000 premises Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I congratulate my access to superfast broadband. hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) However, one local concern is the tourist tax recently on securing this debate on this important issue. Is my proposed by the new Green administration of Brighton hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton and Hove. Initially, the tax would be charged at £1 per North (Caroline Nokes) aware that a recent Federation tourist per visit. As hon. Members might imagine, local of Small Businesses survey indicated that, if more than hoteliers have come out against the idea, as it would 30% of small and medium-sized enterprises in the south-east essentially be a tax on hotels. I do not want anything to had access to the national insurance contribution holiday, damage Brighton’s competitiveness as a tourist destination. they would take on new people? That would be good for Once taxes are introduced, they inevitably rise and are the country and for our region. rarely repealed. The way to attract tourism to Brighton and other destinations is to maintain a framework that Caroline Nokes: My hon. Friend makes an excellent enables visitors while allowing tourism services and point and is absolutely right—those companies would businesses to survive. be willing to take on more people and create more I believe that the Government’s economic strategy employment in the private sector. As I was about to say will set this country on a sustainable way forward in before he intervened, in these straitened economic times, which debt, growth and employment will come into there will inevitably be a correction in the number of balance over time. However, what is done at the micro people employed by the public sector, and we need that level is just as vital. State direction, bureaucracy and red slack to be taken up by members of the FSB and other tape must all be limited to allow the private sector to small business organisations. grow and fill the vacuum when the state is pared back. Landmark sites on the edge of Southampton that are Government cannot pick winners, but it can create the earmarked for major corporate headquarters remain framework to allow winners to win. That is just as only partly used. One must therefore ask whether those important in the south-east as it is anywhere else. sorts of sites would have been snapped up by now if there had been more support and more enterprise zones in the south-east. 10.8 am If Southampton was lifted up—this is true of other Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) cites in the south; my hon. Friend the Member for (Con): I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) has left the Chamber, for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) on securing this important but there are close and obvious parallels and comparisons debate. As we have heard ably from her, and from the between Portsmouth and Southampton—and placed right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith) and my anywhere in the north, one would notice striking similarities hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Simon between it and cities in that region. Kirby), prosperity is not uniform in many parts of the On the 2010 recognised indices of multiple deprivation, south-east, which has its share of deprivation, poor Southampton is ranked as the 81st most deprived local educational attainment, low aspiration and poverty. authority area in the country, which is 10 places worse However, what is striking about my constituency is that than in 2007. Therefore, in spite of being perceived as it has extremes: areas of wealth and enterprise adjacent an economic powerhouse, there are places in the south-east to areas of worklessness. where deprivation is getting worse, unemployment is I do not want to paint too gloomy a picture. Romsey going up, and we could benefit greatly from some and Southampton North remains one of the most support to the SMEs that will play a critical role in wonderful places in the country to live. The local authorities, economic recovery. As we know, 60% of all new jobs are 267WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 268WH created by entrepreneurs and high-growth small businesses, have referred. None the less, it is worth pointing out and in a part of the country where, as we have heard, it some of the findings in the Institute of Directors policy is very expensive to do business and there are high rents paper that came out this week. It pointed out that the and high rates, those small businesses need every bit of overall tax burden on small and medium-sized enterprises support. We neglect the south-east at our peril. The “is a lot higher than the corporation tax rates of 20 and 26 per country needs this region to be accelerating growth, and cent”— if it is to do that, the full range of funding options must it is closer to 32% and 43%—and that a business be available to entrepreneurs. “can expect to have to pay four or five months’ worth of profits to I hope that colleagues will forgive me if I comment the state each year.” briefly on some of the good things that are happening in Southampton. At Solent university, a culture of That is worrying and, like the IOD, I would love to see entrepreneurship is being fostered amongst the students—we the public finances permit a move towards the consolidation have heard that something similar is happening in of national insurance, a reduction of the overall level of Portsmouth—and it applies to not just the alumni, but national insurance for employers and businesses, and undergraduates and those who are about to graduate. further cuts in corporation tax. They are all being encouraged to consider their own That analytical view is bolstered by the feedback that start-ups and given tools and practical support to do I get regularly from local businesses in Elmbridge. They that. raise three major things with me. The first is credit—there The city council has worked hard to stimulate investment, is still not enough credit going to viable SMEs. The much of which has come from the retail sector and second is red tape. Like others, I would welcome it and hospitality, with hundreds of new jobs created with congratulate the Government if they tackled some of Costco, Sainsbury’s and Morrisons. There have also the health and safety and employment law regulations. been manufacturing successes, with up to 700 new jobs Thirdly, it is still too difficult to hire and fire in this in marine manufacturing in Woolston.The city is managing country, and that is a major obstacle to growth. I would to buck the trend for job creation, but we should be grateful if the Minister could give an assessment of remember that that must still be held against the 32% the one-in, one-out rule for the financial year 2010-11. dependency on the public sector. How many regulations have come in and how many have been scaled back? It would be useful to know what Another thing that we have seen in the private sector—I practical progress has been made. am prepared to concede that this is not an SME—is the dramatic expansion of Southampton as a cruise terminal. Like others, I welcome the cuts to both the main rate Much credit must go to Associated British Ports, which and the small business rate of corporation tax, but has invested private money in the port to a massive national insurance, as others have said, remains onerous. extent and boosted the city’s economy, without subsidy One aspect that is raised constantly with me as an MP from Government or Europe, unlike some of its competitor for a constituency in the south-east is business rates and cities. What ABP wants from the Government is a level a feeling that our businesses are taxed more and more playing field, so that businesses are not disadvantaged but get back less and less. Can the Minister give an in an unfair way and confidence is not undermined in a indication of what progress has been made towards way that chokes off essential private sector investment. ensuring that local communities see a greater share of It is successful, but it has achieved that on its own and the revenue of the tax raised from businesses locally so feels aggrieved to see other ports being given a leg up. that we can take some positive steps towards incentivising local business growth? There is much to be proud of in the city, but there is still too much deprivation. There could be more stimulus Much has been said already about the one-year national if companies benefited from the same tax breaks available insurance holiday for start-up companies, but I understand further north. How many more new graduates would that it is still not applicable in the south-east. Many find the impetus to start up their own business if they, Members present will recognise that we need to do far too, could have that national insurance exemption? more to promote investment and infrastructure in other This is an important debate on an important issue, parts of the country that are not as well developed. and I urge the Minister to consider carefully what Other measures of a more socio-economic nature, such Members are saying about the south-east. The region is as the pupil premium, encourage greater social mobility desperately needed to drive the economic engine of the and economic development. country, to accelerate growth and to provide private sector jobs. David Simpson: I have listened to every contribution. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that what we need to do in the whole of the United Kingdom is create the 10.15 am confidence that the business sector once had? Small Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): Thank businesses are fighting a rearguard action against the you, Mr Streeter, for the opportunity to speak in this banks, the markets are not what they were, and small debate. I join others in welcoming the ability of my hon. hauliers face opposition from and have to compete Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) to against hauliers coming in from Europe filled with secure it, and congratulate her on her excellent speech. cheaper fuel. We need to create the confidence whereby I welcome the various different fronts on which the businesses of all sizes are prepared to take a risk again. Government have tried to lever up some economic recovery, through securing and retaining market confidence, Mr Raab: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that which has brought us back from the cusp of default, contribution and I agree entirely with its sentiment and and through some of the fiscal measures on corporation spirit. One of the concerns is that we will not get that tax and the regulatory measures to which other Members business confidence back unless we do a bit more to 269WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 270WH

[Mr Raab] However, many of the 10,000 businesses in the new city are small and medium-sized enterprises. Many of weigh down and bring down the regulatory and tax the business men and women I have met welcomed the burden. On the national insurance holiday, I am concerned excellent measures introduced over the past year by the about the precedent of moving towards increasing regional coalition Government—for example, small business rate tax subsidisation, which is, effectively, what we are relief, which other hon. Members have mentioned. Although talking about. Over the years, a wealth of research has I certainly support the national insurance holiday, it shown that cutting business taxes may well increase seems slightly arbitrary that, as we have heard this revenue as a result of business growth. Is the Minister morning, it is too often decided on a regional basis. aware of whether any assessment was done of the fiscal There are centres of deprivation across the south, and impact of extending the national insurance holiday to Milton Keynes is no different. Some of my wards are all parts of the country, specifically in terms of what the most deprived areas in south-east England. My revenue would be gained back? Is that measure revenue hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) neutral or even revenue positive? Such an approach made a point about being able to secure credit as a small would certainly be welcomed by businesses across my business. That remains a major problem. Although I constituency. know that the Government are keen to act in that area, In Elmbridge, I see a huge niche comparative advantage we simply must do more because, unless small businesses in hi-tech start-ups—for example: Chelsea Technology, can secure credit, I fear that their future is bleak. which pioneered the sensors that were used to clean up Business owners are particularly keen on the introduction the oil slick in the gulf of Mexico; T R Control Solutions, of local enterprise partnerships. Milton Keynes is part which is a relatively small business that has pioneered of the South East Midlands LEP. Geographically, that stretches from Luton to Corby, with Milton Keynes the software being used in Whitehall to cut CO2 emissions; Air Products, and Saville Consulting. There are many being the centre of gravity. It has been very much others. We are not going to rebuild the old manufacturing welcomed that the wealth creators and the innovators industries of the past, and there is no point harking will determine the direction of our regions rather than back to the industrial revolution with doe-eyed nostalgia. having publicly funded, faceless bureaucrats driving What we can do, and what I hope we will do, is build regional funding. and innovate in the areas of comparative advantage. However, some people have found it strange that the The hi-tech manufacturing industry is of particular funds for starting up the LEPs have been solely allocated comparative advantage in my constituency, in the south to the chambers of commerce. Concerns were raised in and for the country as a whole. a letter to The Daily Telegraph about the decision of the I am conscious of the time, so I will conclude my Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government remarks. Again, I thank you, Mr Streeter, for giving me to allocate the £300,000 grant to that national network the opportunity to speak and I congratulate my hon. alone. Although the chambers of commerce are Friend the Member for Gosport on securing the debate. excellent—in my constituency, the chamber of commerce I hope that the Minister will address some of the is a lynchpin of business activity—they are not the only specific points made when he replies. bodies representing business. There is also the Institute of Directors, the Federation of Small Businesses and the Forum of Private Businesses, national wings of The Daily Telegraph 10.21 am which wrote the letter to back in April. In particular, our local Federation of Small Businesses Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): It is a is a strong voice. I pay tribute to my predecessor, Brian pleasure to contribute to this timely and important White, who leads that federation in Milton Keynes. debate, which I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member Collectively, small businesses in my constituency are for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) on securing. It is also big business, and they deserve a big voice in these a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. matters. I would hate to think that, in coming up with Like other hon. Members, I confess that I have a such an excellent initiative, we are alienating anyone. business background. It is perhaps slightly ironic that in Will the Minister look again at how we fund LEPs? It is 2005, the year of the 400th anniversary of Guy Fawkes, important that we ensure that voices from the whole I was the first firework manufacturer to be elected to business community are heard and that we do not solely this place. Even now, when I wander into Parliament on rely on a single channel when it comes to starting these 5 November, the temptation to blow the place up is still very important partnerships. there! So far, I have managed to resist it. 10.25 am We have had a tour of the south of England this Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): I congratulate morning—from southerly constituencies, to Milton Keynes my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline North, which is the most northerly seat in the south-east Dinenage) on securing the debate. We all know that region. Small business is big business in my constituency. small and medium-sized businesses are absolutely vital On average, five businesses move into or expand in to the recovery of the British economy. They create Milton Keynes each month. Some 72% of our companies wealth in a community and provide local jobs. Micro- began in the city. Milton Keynes is the city of start-ups businesses are incredibly important to our local economy and, in 2010, the Centre for Cities outlook report said on the Isle of Wight. The majority of businesses on the that it had the third highest number of business births island have only one or two employees, and many have in the country.We may also be considered the headquarters none. There are 6,000 businesses in total on the island, of headquarters. We are home to the national bases of 87% of which have less than 10 employees. That is a Volkswagen, Argos, Marshall Amplification, Mercedes- figure of 5,220. I will come back to those points in Benz and, imminently, Network Rail. a moment. 271WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 272WH

Potential investors and business owners need to and I welcome that news. Island businesses will also understand that living and working on the island is benefit from the improved access to finance promised fundamentally different from the mainland. There are a by the Government. I welcome the announcement from few drawbacks, but there are many more positive aspects. the major banks that they will make £76 billion available We have a more relaxed pace of life and a better quality in new lending for small businesses across the country of life. We can use that to attract business people who in 2011. All in all, I think that the Government understand want a good work-life balance. We also have a rather and appreciate the massive contribution that small captive audience because the cost of leaving the island businesses and micro-businesses make to our national can be extraordinarily high. People tend to buy their and local economies. The work that has been done is an food and many of their other goods and services on the excellent start, but we need to keep micro-businesses island, and they bank on the island. Islanders are more afloat, otherwise our economy will once more suffer. community focused than people in many other parts of the country. That is probably because so many people are born on the island, educated on the island, work on 10.31 am the island, have families on the island, and grow old on the island, so even more than in some other areas, it is in Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): the interests of islanders and their families to build a I would like to add my congratulations to my hon. strong local economy. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage). The debate gives me an opportunity to explain something I am also interested in the move towards more economic of what we are doing in my constituency. We have set up development through the focus of local enterprise the Sittingbourne and Sheppey Link 2 Business, which partnerships on stimulating regional growth. Unfortunately, has its own website that offers local businesses direct I understand that the Solent area LEP, which covers the access to my office and a range of other services. We set Isle of Wight, has excluded representation on its board that up because, during my term as MP, one of my top from small businesses, including the Federation of Small priorities is to help local companies get through the Businesses. That seems rather short-sighted. I am worried tough economic challenge that our country faces. that the voices of small and micro-businesses will not be As and when the economy improves, I want those heard. I hope that the Solent area LEP will find a businesses to be better placed to expand and provide remedy for that omission soon. the extra jobs that my constituents need. At 8.7%, my More can be done to support micro-businesses. Many constituency has one of the highest unemployment local businesses have disappeared into franchises controlled rates in Kent. I am determined to do everything I can to and dictated to by large brewers. Small butchers and help bring that figure down. I am lucky that Swale greengrocers have to compete with supermarkets that borough council and Kent county council are two local have free parking and mass buying power. Even though authorities that recognise the importance of private many small food shops on the island are better value for enterprise to wealth creation. They are both doing all money than the larger supermarkets and offer a better they can to attract more investment into our area. Of quality of food and produce, they suffer losing shoppers course, much of the future prosperity in my constituency to loss-leading offers and discounted petrol schemes. is dependent on those companies who already do business Perhaps the Government’s commitment to support local in the area, which is why helping them is so high on my communities means that something more can be done priority list. to encourage shoppers to use local shops that sell local One way in which I can achieve my goal is to ensure products. that local businessmen and women have easy access to As I said earlier, most businesses on the island have advice and are able to get quick answers to any questions one or two employees and many have none. Only 13% they might have about Government policy. The of businesses on the island have more than 10 employees. Sittingbourne and Sheppey Link 2 Business provides Small and micro-businesses are vital to the island’s that service. We hold monthly business breakfasts at economy and they have enough on their plate trying to which local business people can share with me their run a successful business, without having to devote concerns and problems. I have been running those hours and hours to trying to ensure that they comply breakfasts for a year and the three gripes that are with unnecessary red tape. The Government’s decision continually raised are the burden of red tape, the lack of to exempt new start-ups from all new domestic legislation a skilled work force locally and the difficulty of accessing for three years is welcome; it is a good start. That, Government grants because we happen to be in the coupled with a review of the 22,000 regulations currently south-east of England. As a number of hon. Members on the statute book, will reduce the bureaucratic burden have pointed out, we actually have areas of deep deprivation that so often puts off good small business owners. in the south-east. In my constituency, two of my council However, I regret that the island was not included in the wards are in the top 10 most deprived nationally. decision to give a national insurance holiday to small, It is for the people living in those areas that I would start-up businesses. Just because the previous Government like to issue my plea to the Government for help. Swale put the island in the south-east region does not mean borough council, Kent county council and I are working that it shares the affluence of some of our mainland together to do all we can to encourage investment into neighbours. I hope that the Chancellor will look closely our area. As the Minister will know, Kent took a hard at differences within regions—I recognise that that point hit recently when Pfizer decided to pull out of Sandwich, has been made—when announcing such policies in the with the loss of 2,500 jobs. On the plus side, Vestas is future. seriously considering setting up a wind turbine factory I recently met with Neil Whitmarsh, the senior business in Sheerness to create another 2,000 jobs. I am sure that manager of Lloyds bank on the island. He told me that we could seal that deal if there was some access to business lending on the island is well ahead of target, Government aid. Bringing in such investment would 273WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 274WH

[Gordon Henderson] area. The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Simon Kirby) mentioned that he is a former business man, and give a huge boost to small and medium-sized businesses of course the hon. Member for Milton Keynes North in my constituency. Losing that investment would be a (Mark Lancaster) is the first fireworks manufacturer to tragedy. sit in this House—something that I did not know. I I know that the Government’s aid policy is pitched practised as a solicitor for the best part of a decade towards regions where there is a need to rebalance before entering the House. Throughout my time as a economies that have become over-reliant on the public solicitor, I advised SMEs. I think that the Minister sector. As a business man, however, I know that when worked in business for a good decade before he came times are tough the way to create growth is to invest in into the House, too. Everybody who has contributed those areas of the business that have a proven record of does so from practical experience, which is a good thing success, rather than those that have been a drain on for us here in Parliament. company profits. The same should apply to Government As a result, we are familiar with the obstacles that investment, and I urge Ministers to rethink regional aid SMEs face. Chief among them is access to finance. The policy. The country needs more private sector jobs. In Government’s regional growth fund has been mentioned. Kent, we are doing all we can to help our local businesses The previous Government had a regional growth budget create those jobs, and I am sure the same goes for other of £1.4 billion, which was delivered through the regional southern counties. We need Government help, however. development agencies. This Government are investing We need financial help. Give us that help and we, in the the same sum, but over three years—a two-thirds cut in south and south-east, will help kick-start Britain’s economic investment. The first round of bids has caused some recovery. angst and was very over-subscribed. The applications Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): I thank all colleagues were restricted to those with bid values of more than for co-operating on timing. The winding-up speeches £1 million, which denied many SMEs access to the now begin. I call Chi Onwurah. funding. The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) said, for example, that 87% of the businesses in his area 10.35 am are micro-businesses, and such businesses are probably Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): Thank you, not in a position to apply for bids of that size. Will the Mr Streeter. It is actually Chuka Umunna. My hon. Government consider revising the criteria to permit Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central bids of a smaller value so that more SMEs can benefit? (Chi Onwurah) is another member of the shadow business The Opposition have also suggested re-imposing the team, and she is a she as well. bank bonus tax and adding £200 million from that to the £450 million already announced for the regional Let me start by congratulating the hon. Member for growth fund. Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) on bringing this important issue to the Chamber. I say that not only out of custom, New local enterprise zones were mentioned—the hon. but because we are looking to small and medium-sized Member for Gosport highlighted that none is scheduled businesses to create the jobs and growth that will enable to appear in the south. Notwithstanding whether we us to reduce the deficit and return the country to proceed with the zones or where they are located, why prosperity after the global financial crisis and the recession. does the Minister feel that they would work and be In the south, SMEs make up 99.4% of enterprises. They successful? When I sat on the Treasury Committee, the deliver 52.6% of the jobs in the private sector and 40.9% chief economist of the Cabinet Office, Jonathan Portes, of private sector turnover. In the three regions that I who left his position in February, said that his understanding commonly think of when I think of the south—the was that, instead of creating new economic activity, south-west, the south-east and the eastern regions outside enterprise zones simply shifted it around the country. London—there are 420,000 SMEs employing 3.26 million Above all, SMEs look to the banks for access to people, from sole trading outfits to those employing 100 capital and finance, which they cannot access on the or more. It is an absolute prerequisite for the full capital markets, unlike larger companies. The hon. Member recovery that we all want to see that they grow and for Isle of Wight, as well as the hon. Member for Upper flourish. Bann (David Simpson) who is no longer in his place, To see SMEs bloom, we need to foster and promote referred to the Project Merlin agreement, which was an enterprise culture in which people can make an announced in February. Under it, the Chancellor told informed choice about setting up their own enterprise us that the banks had agreed £76 billion of gross new and business, as opposed to going to down the employment lending to SMEs, giving a quarterly target of £19 billion, route with another outfit. We need to create a dynamic which we learnt recently that the banks had missed by start-up market by strengthening the support that we £2.2 billion. I have some questions for the Minister, provide to people in terms of giving them the networks given information that has come to light over the past and access to information that would encourage them few days since we had Business, Innovation and Skills to start up a new business. We need to build the capacity questions on the Floor of the House last week. In of our existing SMEs to grow by promoting the adoption particular, the Minister said in a written answer to my of shared learning, good practice and maximising the hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central (Dan skills of business. We need to encourage SME activity Jarvis), on 8 June: in disadvantaged and deprived communities, many of which have already been mentioned. “The Merlin Agreement was about setting stretching lending targets to the banks to make sure that they make available the I know that many MPs in the House, including those credit that businesses need to grow...Lending to SMEs in the first who have contributed to the debate, have direct experience quarter was £16.8 billion against a quarterly ‘stretch’ target of of business. The hon. Member for Gosport runs a small £17.2 billion (the ‘capacity’ target would imply a figure of manufacturing outfit and has a lot of knowledge in this £19 billion).”—[Official Report, 8 June 2011; Vol. 529, c. 391W.] 275WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 276WH

That was the first mention of a stretch target, which LEPs responsibility for the billions of pounds of regional appears to let the banks off the hook on SME lending, development agency assets, so that they can have real because the stretch target is 10% lower than the original local influence in their operating areas? The hon. Member target announced by the Chancellor in February. for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Henderson), Why did the Chancellor not cite the stretch target who has been involved in business as well, talked about referred to by the Minister in the written answer last the challenge of local school shortages which I, too, week? Surely Parliament should have been told about recognise. such targets at the outset. Secondly, why are those The hon. Member for Gosport started by mentioning stretch targets and the details about them not published the notion that the south is being pigeonholed as an quarterly on the Bank of England website with the affluent area without the same challenges as the north capacity targets we were originally told about? On the and, perhaps, is not being afforded the benefits received Project Merlin provisions to do with chief executive in the north. I am not suggesting that that is what she officer remuneration, will the pay link reflect whether said, but SMEs are the lifeblood of our economy and the banks have also met stretch targets, or will the link we need them to thrive everywhere, in deprived communities be with capacity targets? Lastly, Treasury officials were all over the country, be they north or south. The quoted in the media yesterday as saying that the Minister’s Government strategy for growth is predicated on a stretch targets do not officially exist, yet clearly they do, boom in exports and in business investment. We need to because we cannot get more official than a ministerial see that happen all over if growth is to return. written answer informing us of the existence of such a target. Why is the Minister saying one thing, when the 10.48 am Treasury appear to be saying another? Perhaps the Minister can provide clarification. We need the banks The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation to lend to SMEs in the south and beyond if we are to and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I congratulate my hon. see growth return. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) Other issues raised in the debate include the national not only on securing the debate but on her excellent insurance holiday, which the hon. Member for Gosport contribution. How refreshing, in this Parliament, in a thought was unfair in not applying in the south-east, debate on small businesses, to see a significant number while my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East of hon. Members such as myself with a business (Mr Smith) thought that the application of the criteria background. I know it is meant to be a dangerous thing determining where the holiday would apply was rather for a Minister to have some knowledge of his subject, broad brush. The hon. Member for Portsmouth North but it is actually immensely helpful. Many of the (Penny Mordaunt), who is no longer in her place, representations, on whether we can do a little more of mentioned the low take-up of the benefit: we were told this or extend a particular scheme, are in many senses a that 400,000 businesses would benefit but it appears to process of singing to the choir. I am sympathetic, but be far fewer. Can the Minister tell us where we are with we have inherited a tight financial situation and, without that? wanting to get partisan, we have therefore been restricted in some areas in which we would like to do more. Hon. The cost and complexity of regulation were mentioned Members of all parties appreciate that. by the hon. Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris). She would probably agree if I took it from her As was pointed out by all hon. and indeed right hon. comments that the issue is one not only of cutting the Members, small businesses are vital. We heard from the red tape but of ensuring that the regulation we have is Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Streatham applied in a smarter fashion, and easier for businesses (Mr Umunna), and I welcome him to his position; this to understand. I think she also mentioned the employment is the first opportunity we have had to debate in Westminster tribunal regulations, as did the hon. Member for Esher Hall. He is right to talk about how small businesses and Walton (Mr Raab). The previous Government did represent a significant proportion both of businesses as away with the statutory dispute resolution procedures—in a whole—99% in the south-east—and of the jobs created, practice, they were difficult for employers to grapple accounting for just over half of private sector jobs. In with—and that was a good thing, but I add a note of my book, small businesses are the drivers of growth and caution, because watering down employee rights is not the leaders of innovation, and as we try to move away necessarily a substitute for a proper and comprehensive from the recession, we want to improve on that. growth strategy to help the businesses we are discussing. Let me say at the start that this Government are The hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton absolutely committed to enabling more people to start North (Caroline Nokes) talked about the high rents and businesses, and then to grow them. Many of the initiatives rates from which businesses in her area are suffering. I that make a real difference to people’s bottom line in am receiving exactly the same comments from my running a business, whether micro, small or medium, constituents in Streatham. What does the Minister think are policies that affect every business throughout the we can do centrally about the problem? The lower tax country—national policies. I shall come to some of the burden and the Institute of Directors report were mentioned specific aspects, and the spatial and regional dimension. by the hon. Member for Esher and Walton. In reality, The Government have started by trying to ensure that the tax burden for SMEs is, typically, between 32% and people who want to begin the journey of starting a 43%. We need to look at that. The hon. Member for Isle business can do so. of Wight mentioned the big issue, which the Government The new national enterprise allowance, which is available need to look at, of SME representation on the LEP throughout the south-east and the country as a whole, boards. The preponderance of SMEs feel excluded from will be rolled out over the next year, and will help the boards of the LEPs, and that claim is popping up all thousands of unemployed people, whether in Gosport over the country. Would it be a good idea to give the or elsewhere, to take that first step on the crucial 277WH SMEs (South of England)15 JUNE 2011 SMEs (South of England) 278WH

[Mr Mark Prisk] in the credit area with a simpler credit insurance product, a new bond scheme to make things easier, and a new journey from being unemployed to being self-employed. foreign exchange credit scheme. If my hon. Friend That is why we are overhauling the whole bureaucratic would like further details, I am sure that my officials process of, for example, registering a company. It has will be happy to supply them. been ridiculously complex in the past, and when I started my business at the bottom of the last recession, I shall deal with an issue that is specific to Gosport, it was immensely slow and expensive. We are putting the and then speak about generic matters. As my hon. process online, and making it quick and cheap so that Friend knows, I visited her constituency yesterday, and people can get going and get under way. met other people in Portsmouth and elsewhere in the area. One initiative that we are driving forward is recognition That is why the Government, during our first 12 of the tremendous value of the marine engineering months, sought to stop the planned increase in national industry. It is crucial for many hon. Members who have insurance, which would affect every small business and spoken today, but has been neglected. We have all could have cost, according to the Federation of Small recognised the importance of automotive engineering, Businesses, some 47,000 jobs. We stopped that, and that and we have all pushed the case for aerospace, but the helped businesses up and down the land. It is why we country has tremendous expertise in marine engineering. are reforming the tax system, to which several hon. I am co-chairing the Marine Industry Leadership Council, Members referred, and cutting the rate back to 20p and leading the strategy with the industry. It sets out the instead of increasing it, as had been planned. It is also key issues involving technological change and the ability why we are ensuring that the system is simpler. In the to take on new opportunities so that that industry is past, too much time has been lost in trying to comply prosperous. That is crucial for areas such as Gosport. with bureaucracy, reliefs, allowances and the ever-changing National political leadership can make a real difference two-Budgets-a-year process. Simplification and greater to a local area. predictability are crucial when trying to run an SME. My hon. Friend mentioned the national insurance On regulation, I totally understand that there will be holiday. A little perspective is important, but I understand natural caution about how this Government, more than people’s concern. The change will help new businesses. any other, are making progress. My hon. Friend the No existing business in any constituency will be treated Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) referred to differently, whether they are in the north or the south. one in, one out. During the first six months, when we That is important. Although the Chancellor is clearly invited representations on various regulations, we received under financial pressure, he wanted to make a difference, 157 on different regulations. We have cut those by 70% and to help business formation in areas where it is at a down to 46%, and only 11 will cost businesses anything. lower level, so we chose to help businesses outside the That is a start, as hon. Members have said, and they are wider south-east. I note the representations, and I totally right. This is the beginning of a process, and there is a understand the point. I will come to the broader point lot more to do. I am working with my colleagues about specific pockets of deprivation in apparently throughout the Government to consider the next half- more affluent areas, but the policy has tremendous year—July to December—so that that 70% reduction in merit. These are early days but, like all tax policies, the the number of regulations can be matched and improved Chancellor will keep a close eye on it. He has noted, as on. However, we can do more, which is why have have I, hon. Members’ representations. introduced the new moratorium for new regulations on SMEs to ensure that micro, small and medium businesses On finance, the Opposition spokesman, the hon. can get on with their business without worrying too Member for Streatham mentioned a couple of issues, as much about complying with Government bureaucracy. did another hon. Member who is no longer in his place, That is also why we have taken the bold step of about access to finance. This is crucial in terms of ending gold-plating of EU regulations in this country. ensuring that we hold the banks to their targets—I will We have had a habit of being the first to implement come to that—and how we deal with equity finance and them, and in a way that is far more complicated for our risk capital. That is why we ensured the continuance of businesses than for our European competitors. We are Capital for Enterprise with a £200 million fund. It is changing that, which is why we will not implement EU also why we have pushed the banks to provide us with a regulations a day earlier than we legally must, and why business growth fund, aimed at the mid-caps, which will we will ensure that we do not add to directives and help unlock around £2.5 billion. The hon. Gentleman make life more complicated when our businesses are also referred to targets. It is the capacity targets to competing with their European partners. Those are which we will hold the banks. Clearly, in any negotiations crucial steps that will make a difference to the bottom there will be other ways in which we wish to stretch the line. banks and challenge them, but we are monitoring the capacity targets. I turn to the specific issues raised by various hon. Members. My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport On regional growth funds, I am well aware that if rightly pointed out the crucial role of exports in our people have not won funding they will want to know growth overall, and in helping SMEs improve their why, and I understand that. The first round was very productivity and innovation. The evidence is there. That popular, and heavily over-subscribed. The second round is why UK Trade and Investment is changing its strategy is now in hand, and its capacity has doubled. It is worth to make it far more entrepreneurial. It also has a new pointing out that it is focused on areas with heavy “passport to export” service deliberately aimed at SMEs. reliance on the public sector, but the scheme is based on We have worked with the Export Credits Guarantee merit, and there is no attempt to place a limit on Department to loosen up some of the regulatory processes, businesses applying in different parts of the country. and to introduce a series of new schemes to help businesses That is important, and leads on to the wider issue. 279WH SMEs (South of England) 15 JUNE 2011 280WH

As I discussed yesterday when I visited Gosport, such Unauthorised Encampments (Brighton) places have pockets of deprivation, as does my constituency in Hertfordshire, and in a strange way they are more isolated than if they were in an area that is generally 11 am recognised in the statistics as bring deprived. That is Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): I am why the old regional debate about north-south is too grateful to have secured this Adjournment debate. In crude. It is why I talked to the Solent LEP, as I have to recent weeks, my constituents have become increasingly others, about looking at the nomenclature of units for concerned about the influx of Travellers into Brighton, territorial statistics—the NUT statistics, which relate to the creation of unauthorised encampments, and the the size rather than the sanity of the preparation—to attitude taken by the city council’s new Green administration ensure that we drill down and better understand the real to that important issue. Furthermore, a “tent city” problems. It is one reason why we are replacing regional protest against Spanish-style austerity has recently been development agencies with local enterprise partnerships. organised by the so-called Real Democracy Now campaign That will allow us and, more importantly, local business on the historic Old Steine in Brighton. That protest was and civic communities, directly to address some of the not moved on by the police, and it was welcomed by the problems and local issues that might be masked by Green party as the kind of peaceful protest it wants to more general affluence, which tends to colour the way see. in which Government policies work. That is why enterprise zones will be open for all enterprise partnerships to A number of houses in the Ovingdean and Roedean apply for. areas of my constituency have been used as so-called “party houses”, and former homes in residential streets I had the opportunity of seeing the former HMS have been turned into the equivalent of nightclubs for Daedalus, which is a fascinating sight. We are in the 24-hour partying over the weekends. As you will imagine, bidding period, so I must be careful, but I am sure that Mr Streeter, none of that sits well with the majority of my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport and her law-abiding citizens and constituents who pay their supporters and constituents will make a powerful taxes and obey the rules. representation. Brighton has been a magnet for Travellers for many Finally, issues were raised about the new generation years. Previous councils created a site for Travellers at of entrepreneurs, whom I totally support. Several hon. Horsdean in Brighton, which was refurbished by the Members mentioned that, including my hon. Friends recently departed Conservative administration. That the Members for Romsey and Southampton North site is located in the constituency of the hon. Member (Caroline Nokes) and for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). Morris). Yesterday, I was at my alma mater, Reading university, to open its new enterprise centre. We must do Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): The hon. what is done in silicon valley, and bring investors— Gentleman mentions the fact that the previous administration set up a transit camp. Does he also Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. acknowledge that it did not succeed in finding any kind of permanent site? The lack of such permanent sites is one of the main causes of the problems he describes.

Simon Kirby: I am afraid that I do not agree with the hon. Lady. The problems we see today—which will get worse if something is not done—are caused by the Green administration and the lack of desire to move people on. We have a perfectly adequate transit camp that is largely unoccupied. Yet over the past few weeks in Brighton and Hove we have seen Travellers at the Victoria recreation ground, at Benfield Valley park, at Withdean park, on farmland adjacent to 39 Acres off Ditchling road, on the Ladies Mile open space, at Happy valley, at Wild park and in east Brighton. The camp at Horsdean remains, at a cost to the taxpayer, and it has empty pitches. As I have said, Brighton has been a magnet for Travellers for many years, and the good intentions of previous administrations do not seem to have stemmed the flow of Travellers to the area. When Travellers arrive, groups set up unauthorised encampments wherever the mood takes them. That could be on publicly owned land, which is often owned by the city council, or on privately owned land such as the Portslade cricket club in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Mike Weatherley). Understandably, residents get annoyed and phone the police or the council. The council and the police are supposed to work together, but there is often a delay while legally-mandated welfare checks are carried out, and consideration is given to 281WH Unauthorised Encampments 15 JUNE 2011 Unauthorised Encampments 282WH (Brighton) (Brighton) [Simon Kirby] exclusion and eviction orders site-specific rather than individually based. At the moment, if a group of Travellers seeking an order that would instruct the Travellers to is asked to move on, other people can quickly reoccupy move under section 61 of the Criminal Justice and the site. If the eviction or exclusion order is made Public Order Act 1994. specific to a particular site, the problem will be solved once and for all. Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): This problem is not uncommon. Yesterday I visited a newly-established illegal Simon Kirby: My hon. Friend makes a valid point to Travellers site in Layhams lane, Coney Hall, in my which I am sure the Minister has listened carefully. constituency. I told the Travellers to move on and they told me that they would not unless compelled to do so Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con): We have by the police. In the meantime—as they have done danced around this issue for so long. Many hon. Members before—they make a hugely expensive mess for the local present are from the new intake, but some are not. The council. In this specific case, some people have uncontrolled question about intentional trespass is interesting, and I dogs that bit one of the teachers in the local school. am delighted that we are pushing the Minister to provide Anything we can do to increase the speed with which an up-to-date statement on that. In South Derbyshire, I police and enforcers can act would be a great help for have found that when Travellers trespass intentionally decent people who have to put up with the mess. on private land we can get them shifted within 24 hours by using bailiffs. I want to encourage all hon. Friends to Simon Kirby: My hon. Friend makes a valid point let local residents and councils—and perhaps the local and I agree with him. Only recently we saw similar police force—know about the possibility of using bailiffs antisocial activity in the Happy Valley area of Woodingdean to move Travellers on within 24 hours. We still have an in my constituency. Allegations of damage, fouling and issue with council protocols, and perhaps the Minister abusive behaviour were made to the police and council. will clarify our position on releasing councils from the draconian issue of 28 days’ notice. I hope that hon. Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): I congratulate my Members will accept my apologies; I will not be present hon. Friend on securing this important debate. As he at the end of the debate because I need to go to prayers. may remember, a few months ago I raised this issue during Prime Minister’s questions and asked what could Simon Kirby: I thank my hon. Friend for making a be done. I asked whether intentional trespass could be valid point, to which I am sure the Minister has listened. made a criminal offence, so that if people move on to She is absolutely right. It is not only the two communities— other people’s land without permission they can be the settled community and the travelling community—that removed without the need for a court order. The Prime need clarity. Local government itself needs a clear steer Minister said that he was encouraged by the proposal on this matter and the tools to carry out the task. and that he will look at the issue. Does my hon. Friend agree with such a measure, and will the Minister tell us Caroline Lucas: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? what point the Government have reached in looking at that proposal? Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. I encourage the hon. Gentleman who has the floor to ensure that he Simon Kirby: I agree with my hon. Friend. Many leaves enough time for the Minister to respond to the people in my constituency find it difficult to understand debate and enough time to make his own points. Of why people can take the law into their own hands and course, I cannot stop him allowing others to intervene, do what they like, disregarding the feelings and needs of but he may want to implement a rule of one intervention others. only.

Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): Does my hon. Simon Kirby: Thank you for your wise advice, Friend agree that the foolish decision by the council Mr Streeter. If I can make some progress, perhaps I can makes it harder for the travelling community to live in give way shortly. Figures from Brighton and Hove city harmony and be accepted in the way we would wish it council show that in the past three years, costs of about to be? Settling in orderly sites is the right way to £233,000 have been incurred simply in clearing up proceed. In my constituency, we have discovered that unauthorised encampments. the only way to deal with the problem is to be absolutely consistent. If we are consistent and the law is properly Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) enforced, Travellers and the local community find that (Con): I apologise for intervening so soon, but my hon. they can live in greater harmony. Friend has made a specific point. In my constituency of Romsey and Southampton North, there has recently Simon Kirby: As usual, my hon. Friend makes a valid been an illegal Traveller encampment at Monks Brook. point. We need clarity and consistency, and for everybody That is one incident among recurrent incidents at that to know where they stand. site. A significant amount of mess, of varying types—some of it very unsanitary—has been left behind for the Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): We councils to clear up, and of course the ultimate cost of are talking about the legality of moving Travellers on. that will fall on the hard-pressed council tax payer. I In the Severn Beach and Pilning areas of my constituency very much hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will there is a new school, and we have had a spate of tell us about any support that might be available for problems with unauthorised Traveller sites. I asked the councils, even if it is just in the form of strengthened Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend powers to ensure that encampments can be moved on the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt), about making more quickly. 283WH Unauthorised Encampments 15 JUNE 2011 Unauthorised Encampments 284WH (Brighton) (Brighton) Simon Kirby: I thank my hon. Friend for making a residents are genuinely worried about what may be valid point. Clearly, the money that is spent in tidying about to be visited upon them in terms of nuisance up and clearing up the mess in these instances comes and cost. from taxpayers. I for one would like to see that money I mentioned that a further type of unauthorised spent on parks, libraries, grass cutting or any number of encampment has been created in the historic Old Steine other, more constructive things—[Interruption.] Perhaps area of Brighton. That is a large, open, grassy area close it could even be spent on weekly bin collections, as a to the seafront with a café and fountain. It is possible to colleague of mine suggests. see the pier from the Steine and it is a favourite attraction In addition, as I mentioned, the previous, Conservative- for residents and visitors alike. Several weeks ago, several led council spent some £160,000—again, no mean sum people, protesting on the eve of the Spanish general in local government terms—on refurbishing the Traveller election regarding the austerity measures having to be site built 10 years or so previously. I understand that the taken in that country, decided to create a tent city on the annual budget of the council’s Traveller team is £310,000. Old Steine. They had a very happy time, banging drums, Often, the criticism is classed as nimbyism or, worse, writing protest placards and creating a focus for world racism, yet nothing could be further from the truth. My revolution, yet the reality is that their camp was hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas unauthorised. They are now moving on, but some still Soames) mentioned communities living in harmony. believe that it is their right to reoccupy the area whenever That is exactly what we all seek to achieve. What people they choose. in my constituency and, I suspect, in other constituencies We know, Mr Streeter, how permanent so-called say is that people should be able to lead their lives in temporary tent cities can become. We have only to look their own way, but not if their doing so creates an feet behind the chair in which you sit to see one across inconvenience and a cost for others. the road from the Palace. Many constituents rightly argue to me that if a group of protesters is allowed to Mike Weatherley (Hove) (Con): I thank my hon. set up camp like this and, crucially, are not moved on by Friend for securing this vital debate. Does he agree that the police, why cannot they, with a group of friends, it is vital that the support of the new Green administration take their caravans and tents to the Old Steine and in Brighton and Hove for Travellers, which appears to make a holiday camp for themselves? The only difference be linked to some unlawful instances of destruction of seems to be that one group has placards decrying the public green spaces such as in Victoria park in my democratic processes that actually allow dissent and constituency, is reversed as a matter of urgency? protest and the other does not. There is no excuse for long-term tent cities such as this. We have a vigorous Parliament, where issues are debated and decisions on Simon Kirby: I thank my hon. Friend for his question. the management of national debt and other important I agree with him. The Green council seems to have given issues are made on a daily basis. the green light to Travellers to create unauthorised encampments in the city. Caroline Lucas: I strongly regret and deplore the way in which the hon. Gentleman is using a very sensitive Caroline Lucas: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? issue as a political football. That does no credit to him or his constituents. What we should be doing across the Simon Kirby: I must make some progress. south-east is working together to find more permanent sites. That is the crux of the problem that we are Caroline Lucas: On a point of order, Mr Streeter. discussing. He will know, because council officers have What has been said is simply not true. The hon. Gentleman said so, that the number of Travellers and Gypsies talked about— coming into Brighton is no greater this summer than it has been for any other summer recently. He will also know that the very first act of the new Green cabinet—the Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. That is not a very first thing that it did within minutes of being sworn point of order. The hon. Lady should take her seat. It is in—was to evict people, very sensibly and responsibly, a point of debate. from the Woollards Field site in Brighton. I therefore urge him to treat this issue with the sensitivity that it Simon Kirby: Thank you, Mr Streeter. The comments deserves, not to conflate the issue of the Old Steine with of the lead councillor of the city council, who said that what is happening with Travellers and Gypsies. Those the group of Travellers had “reluctantly” been moved are two separate things. The actions on the Old Steine on by the council, do not imply a willingness to see were such that they minimised— fewer encampments rather than more. To be fair, I understand, following discussions with Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. Interventions senior officers in the council, that the policy has not should be short. changed in terms of moving Travellers off unauthorised encampments as soon as possible, yet the tone of public Simon Kirby: I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. statements by the Green council sends a very different I would like to move on and briefly mention party message. We shall see who is right when a large group of houses. Those are homes, generally in quiet, residential Travellers leaves Essex in the near future. Where will areas, that are often used to sleep about 20 people. That they go—to a council that is not sympathetic or to one can lead to days of non-stop partying until the early that because of the statements of its senior figures hours. That disturbs residents, who are entitled to the appears to be so? The Greens have set a dangerous quiet enjoyment of their homes. It destroys the amenity precedent by their public attitude and comments, and of an area and creates a further sense of a flouting of 285WH Unauthorised Encampments 15 JUNE 2011 Unauthorised Encampments 286WH (Brighton) (Brighton) [Simon Kirby] must have regard to the concerns of their neighbours and the communities in which they live. The Government the rules by which most sensible communities live. If are seeking to achieve balance and consistency on that. people choose to live in the centre of Brighton, they can When there is a perception that one group can, for expect noise and disturbance. If they choose to live in whatever reason, achieve objectives that other members an area that is mainly residential, they should be able to of the community cannot, perceptions of unfairness expect to go to sleep at night. The previous leader of the arise. As my right hon. Friend rightly said, that presents council held round-table discussions with council officers, a risk to community cohesion. The Government want the police and fire authority representatives to see what to address the issue in a way that recognises that the could be done. What she heard was that, essentially, the majority of Travellers behave lawfully and properly. hands of public authorities seem tied. That cannot be However, the minority who do not do so make life much right. harder for the law-abiding majority, as well as for their I urge the Minister to consider the following. We need neighbours. We therefore seek to strike a balance. to strengthen the powers of the police to move Travellers We have sought to adopt a proportionate twin-tracked on much more quickly than is the case now. There approach. We have abolished the regional strategies, should be clear guidelines about when the police must because arbitrarily imposed, top-down targets on Traveller act, and those guidelines must err on the side of protecting site provision did not work, alienated communities and the property and amenity rights of the settled population. did not always accurately reflect the need on the ground. The issue of mandatory welfare checks needs to be On the other hand, we have sought to encourage the urgently reviewed, as well as the level of resources that appropriate provision of more authorised sites in the local authorities need in order to undertake the work right places. To that end, future authorised sites will attract required when Traveller incursions take place. On protest the new homes bonus. We are also making available camps, the law of trespass needs to be firmly enforced. £60 million to support local authorities and other authorised Again, the police must be given clear instructions on providers in delivering further authorised sites. how to handle such situations. On party houses, I We have set up a cross-departmental working group believe that we need an amendment to the Localism to look at some of the welfare issues that hon. Members Bill, which is now in the other place, to give local mentioned. We have recognised that those who live on authorities more powers in that regard. authorised sites are entitled to a measure of legal protection. People in Brighton tell me that they have had enough Since 30 April, we have strengthened their position by of their lives being disrupted by outside groups that use applying the Mobile Homes Act 1983 to local authority the city for their own ends. The settled majority have authorised sites, giving people living on such sites greater rights, too, and they are looking to Parliament to uphold security of tenure. All those are incentives to encourage them. Traveller families to seek authorised sites. That, therefore, is the positive side—the assistance to Travellers, which 11.19 am is an important part of the mix. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for On the other hand, we recognise that it is necessary Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): It is to strengthen enforcement provisions in relation to a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. unauthorised sites, because those are where the damage I apologise to you and to my hon. Friend the Member to community relations and the environment is done. for Brighton, Kemptown (Simon Kirby) for arriving a As well as abolishing the regional strategies, which were little late and missing the very beginning of his speech, unfair and ineffective and which caused resentment, we but I quickly caught up with the gist of it. We will get have published proposals for a new planning policy for the clocks department at the Department for Communities Traveller sites. They were published for consultation on and Local Government checked. 13 April, and the consultation will close on 6 July. We have already had a lot of responses. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this issue and to those Members who have participated. From my The proposals seek to remove the two existing postbag as a Minister and from the postbags of my circulars—one on Gypsy Travellers and the other on colleagues, I recognise the strength of feeling among travelling show people—that were introduced under the Members of the House and constituents on this issue. I previous Administration. They have not worked effectively am also aware of it from my experience as a constituency and have caused inconsistency and resentment. We intend Member of Parliament; indeed, my next-door neighbour, to replace them with the light-touch guidance we have my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), set out in the consultation document, which will provide inherited the site he talked about from me in the boundary a fairer balance. We have not yet removed the circulars, revision. The issue therefore needs to be approached because there must, as you will know, Mr Streeter, be proportionately. proper consultation on all such matters. However, it is worth bearing it in mind—local authorities should bear Without being invidious to others, perhaps I can this in mind—that the Government’s intention to revoke single out one of the Members who intervened. My the circulars is itself a material consideration, which right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas local planning authorities can take into account when Soames)—I hope that I may call him that already, and I deciding to act on planning or enforcement matters, as am delighted to be able to use that term, which is is normally the case in planning law. thoroughly well-deserved—got it absolutely right: the key test is fairness, a sense of balance and consistency, Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): When the and that is where the difficulty arises. Government consultation ends in July, will information The Government recognise that Gypsies and Travellers be made available on the allocation of sites? Will local have a right to exercise their traditional lifestyle. It is authorities be given advice about numbers and the equally true, however, that anyone exercising their lifestyle methodology for calculating the allocation of pitches? 287WH Unauthorised Encampments 15 JUNE 2011 Unauthorised Encampments 288WH (Brighton) (Brighton) Robert Neill: I suspect that my hon. Friend has already Caroline Lucas: I welcome the fact that the Minister done so, but if he has not, I urge him and any of his recognises that the lack of authorised sites is driving constituents with an interest in this issue to look at the many Travellers and Gypsies to use unauthorised sites, consultation document, which is on the Department’s and I hope that even more resources will be made website. We are not in the business of centrally allocating available to provide more sites. However, does he agree sites—that was the vice of old regional strategies. In the that compact agreements between councils and Travellers consultation, we give authorities guidance on the can be a useful tool in building good relationships? Will appropriate steps they can take to assess need in their he therefore support Brighton council’s plans to go in areas realistically and sensibly. That is the more that direction? proportionate approach. We are therefore dealing with the issue. Robert Neill: It is entirely for councils to adopt the approach they think is relevant. The Local Government In the Localism Bill, which is in the other place, we Association has a useful working group on this issue, are strengthening the law on enforcement, and there are which is chaired by Councillor Richard Bennett, who is several relevant measures. I accept that cynical breaches a Conservative councillor—no one party has a monopoly of planning controls are a particular vice. For example, of interest on this. The group has done some pioneering a site can be occupied specifically on a bank holiday, work on encouraging good local practice, but the when the council offices are often closed, which makes Government do not seek to impose a one-size-fits-all it difficult to serve the appropriate notices. Hardcore is approach. then laid, for example, so that an element of development has taken place. To deal with such issues, my right hon. A proper supply of authorised sites is certainly necessary, Friend the Secretary of State has alerted local authorities and it is regrettable that the previous Government’s of the need to be vigilant over bank holidays, as my approach did not deliver them. We think our approach hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Heather will be better. Strengthening enforcement in the way I Wheeler) said. described, restricting the ability to go back for retrospective permissions and strengthening the powers on temporary In the Bill, we are also strengthening the penalties for stop notices—another issue on which concern has been non-compliance with a breach of condition notice. We expressed to us—will achieve more of a balance, so that are including proposals to limit opportunities for we can assist proper, appropriate, authorised development, retrospective planning applications, which is a particular while clamping down on inappropriate and unauthorised area of abuse. That relates not only to applications development in the way that has been suggested. involving Gypsy Traveller sites. In my constituency, My hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid some cynical developers have built out a dwelling Javid) mentioned extending the criminal law, and the development in a way that is not in accordance with the Government would want to consider that with care, as plan and then gone back for retrospective permission to the Prime Minister said. At the moment, we have a get a second bite of the cherry. All such practices bring package that will deliver a better balance, and I would the system into disrepute, and we intend to restrict the like the opportunity to take it forward before we move opportunities to undertake them. As my right hon. on to considerations that go beyond that. I hope that Friend the Secretary of State said, retrospective permissions that indicates the Government’s stance. should be there to protect those who make an innocent mistake, not those who cynically seek to manipulate the 11.30 am system. Sitting suspended. 289WH 15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 290WH

Caring Responsibilities In April, my hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) carried out a survey of 61 councils; 27 were Conservative, 29 were Labour, four were Lib Dem. It showed that 88% of [MR GARY STREETER in the Chair] councils were increasing charges for social care services; that 16% were raising eligibility criteria, which as I said 2.30 pm had already been increased; that 54% were making cuts in the voluntary service; and that almost two thirds Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): I am pleased were closing care homes or day centres. The Government’s to have the opportunity to debate this subject under response is often to say that it is primarily for local your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. authorities, under the localism agenda, to decide how to This is carers week. It is a time for us to praise carers, spend the money. I bring to this debate a cautionary tale to have our photographs taken and to issue press releases from north of the border. to our local newspapers to show how much we care for Four years ago, the Scottish Government discovered the carers. In fact, however, it is a worrying time for localism, although they did not call it that. In 2007, carers, and the first aspect of that is the budget cuts. they entered into a concordat with local government The Government have made a great deal of their that included the removal of most ring-fenced funds injection of £2 billion a year of extra money by 2014-15 and what I would describe as the velvet embrace of a to support social care. The Minister of State, Department four-year council tax freeze. Adult social care is not of Health, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam statutory. As a result, it often suffers in budgetary crises. (Paul Burstow) said that this Supporting People funding, which is primarily low level “means councils can meet cost pressures and maintain services” and preventive in scope, has been used since its introduction However, an Association of Directors of Adult Social in 2003 for such things as supporting people in sheltered Services survey found that 98% of English councils housing, and helping to meet part of the cost of care showed overall budget reductions, even when taking packages for people with learning and physical disabilities account of the additional £1 billion for 2011-12. who have been moved out of institutional care—something that we all agree with in—into their own homes. Age UK says that spending cuts are projected to reduce spending on older people’s care by £300 million The end of ring-fencing has led to a reduction in over four years, and that real spending on their care will low-level support, the money being used to meet more be £250 million less in 2014 than it was in 2004. That is immediately urgent needs. However, it has proved extremely despite the fact that, during that time, we will have seen difficult to track exactly where the funding is being a rise of two thirds in the number of people over 85, one used. The removal of the ring fence has made it hard to of the biggest groups that need care. be absolutely certain that the money is not being used as it once was, other than through some of the outcomes. In 2005, half of our councils provided support to people who were assessed as having moderate needs. In Home care hours have been cut substantially in my 2011, however, that figure had fallen to 18%. To qualify city over the last four years. Many people now receive for adaptations that could help them to manage better short visits—perhaps 15 minutes at the beginning and without care, people are assessed largely on the same end of the day. However, the beginning and end of that basis. One example is showers that enable people to day will be whenever the care services deem them to be, bathe without assistance. In the overwhelming majority and people may be put to bed at 8 pm because it suits of council areas, people now have to demonstrate critical the care service. As a result, many families are having to or substantial need. Many constituents have asked for plug the gap. That takes no account of considering such help with such things as shower adaptations but have things as paying for care services. Visits can be very been refused because they do not meet that need. One brief indeed. constituent has told me that, as a result, she can take a A further difficulty in tracking what is happening is bath only if her daughter is there to help, yet she lives the increasing individualisation of decisions on care. A some miles away. If she had a shower, she feels that she professional decision that someone needs fewer care could use it on her own, without having to call on her hours can be hard to monitor, as individuals do not daughter for assistance. Not only would that improve know what is happening to others and do not necessarily her well-being and self-esteem, but it would clearly know that there is anything to challenge. reduce the need for care. Use of these levels of eligibility A family who I visited at the weekend have had their for the person who needs the care places a greater care hours cut from 50 to 42 a week. The husband, who burden on friend and family carers, who have to fill the is 74, has suffered severe strokes and needs constant gaps. care. His family have seen no change in circumstances I argue that the cuts are short-sighted and could end other than their observation that they are worse, not up being more expensive. For example, if the carers’ better. His main carer is his 71-year-old wife; but having help is compromised by having to take on an extra been fit and healthy and having worked to age 65, she is burden of care, or if the ill or disabled suffer accidents— now beginning to suffer health problems, and recently perhaps because they do not have adequate adaptations—it suffered a slight stroke from which she has now recovered. will cost us a great deal more. We know that an older No overnight care is provided outwith the family, and person having a fall is more likely to require expensive the wife often gets little sleep, with other family members hospital care, or that a fall can act as a trigger for regularly having to stay the night to give her an overnight needing long-term residential care. Such accidents can break. The payments that the family receive to pay for often precipitate events that might not have happened care have reduced from £560 per week to £475 per week, for a long time, if at all. It is in that context that I argue based on the argument that their need was less. The that the cuts could be short-sighted. family suspect that it is do with funding cuts. It would 291WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 292WH be more straightforward if local authorities were to say receive a carer’s allowance even though they incur additional so, rather than suggesting that a professional decision costs. They could use additional funds to buy some had been made. respite time that they might not otherwise get. They Others might touch on this later, but concern has often become cut-off and isolated because they are not been expressed about what has happened to the money able to get out of the house to enjoy the sorts of social for respite care that was made available by the previous activities that enable people to live healthier and more Government. Many of the organisations involved have fruitful lives. complained that it was not clear where the money had Furthermore, there is an anomaly that needs to be gone or whether it had been used for the purposes for resolved. Those on a low income who are over retirement which it had been granted. Further money has been age claim carer’s allowance, but they do not get paid it. given. The Prime Minister spoke about it again today. Instead, they get access to a carer’s premium in pension However, the main question is whether the money is credit. We have about 250,000 carers in that category. It being used for the purposes for which it was given. is very confusing because they are claiming a benefit Although a hands-off localist policy makes it possible that they do not receive in order to get access to a for Governments, devolved or not, to disclaim responsibility completely different benefit. Hopefully, that is something for what is happening, they remain, none the less, the that the current Government, with their zeal for simplifying largest funder of local services. A policy of successive the benefit system, will move very quickly to address. council tax freezes tips the financial balance further As we debate this subject in Westminster Hall, the towards central Government. main Chamber is considering the Welfare Reform Bill Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): Cutting on Report. Many colleagues who would have liked to be support for the elderly and disabled is described as the here are taking part in that debate. They know how cruellest cut of all. Is my hon. Friend concerned that important the Bill is to carers as well as to other people. the Prime Minister described Birmingham city council The proposed changes to benefits are a big worry for as “excellent” when it had been branded in the High carers. At present, carer’s allowance can be claimed if Court as acting unlawfully in taking away care from the person being cared for qualifies for either the middle 4,100 people in substantial need? Does she not agree or higher rate component of the disability living allowance. that the council should continue to support organisations The successor benefit, the personal independence payment, such as Elders with Attitude because they bring people will only have two bands of the daily living component, out of their homes and stimulate them mentally and which is the equivalent of the care component. What is physically so that they lead a good life and do not still not clear is how eligibility will work under the new become dependent on the national health service or benefit. Will it apply only if the cared-for person receives have to go into a care home? the new higher rate? How many people will lose eligibility for carer’s allowance as a result of these changes? In the Sheila Gilmore: That is clear example of what is Bill Committee, the Minister was unable to give us an happening up and down the country not only for older answer to that question. However, Disability Alliance people who need care but for older carers themselves, has calculated that to achieve even £1 billion of cuts to who have very specific needs. Half of the 6 million DLA—the Government’s forward projections expect people who are providing unpaid care in the UK are there to be a £2 billion saving overall—there could be a aged over 50. In England in 2010, nearly 1 million risk to 643,000 people who currently receive the lowest people aged 65 and over were providing unpaid care to rate and to a further 100,000 people on the middle or a partner, a family member, who might be younger than higher rate. them, or some other person. The largest number were We are told by the Government that we cannot aged between 65 and 74, but there were nearly 50,000 people assume that everyone who currently gets the lower rate over the age of 85 who were giving substantial amounts of DLA will lose out in the benefit changes because the of care. A quarter of all carers aged 75 and over new test will be very different to the old one, which provided 50 or more hours of unpaid care per week. leaves a question mark over an undetermined number Carers over retirement age are a particularly vulnerable of people. We cannot assume that all the losers in the group because they tend to have health issues themselves. new personal independence payment regime will be Such people say that they really have no retirement or people who do not have a corresponding link to the that they have not been able to enjoy the retirement that carer’s allowance. they had expected. Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): I Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): I congratulate congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate. She my hon. Friend on securing this timely and important refers to the age of carers. The survey to which she debate. There is no doubt that the proposed cuts to the alluded earlier indicated that about half of all carers are employment and support allowance and the DLA will in poor health. We often use the expression “a time have a devastating impact on thousands of families bomb”, and it can be a cliché, but here we have a living right across the country. One such couple, Mr and example of a literal time bomb. If 50% of carers are in Mrs McCann, wrote to me expressing their own concerns. poor health themselves, we will, within a few short They both had to take part-time jobs because of caring years, have a double whammy of a problem to deal responsibilities for their daughter, resulting in a 50% with—the people who are being cared for and the carers reduction in their combined salaries. They do not qualify themselves. for carer’s allowance because they have an income of more than £100 a week. They rely on their top-up Sheila Gilmore: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that element for their child tax credit and the DLA that their contribution. That is exactly the point that I was trying daughter receives. Does my hon. Friend think that it is to make. The carers face not only health problems, but fair that this family should have to face the brunt of the financial difficulties. Carers over retirement age do not cuts and even further hardship? 293WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 294WH

Sheila Gilmore: I certainly do not think that that is To conclude, I have a number of specific questions fair. I also fear that for some families, not necessarily for for the Minister. What assessment have the Government my hon. Friend’s constituents, it can be the crisis point made of the impact on carers of the estimated £1 billion that makes it impossible for them to continue with their of cuts to social care services in the current financial caring responsibilities. If the family cannot continue to year? What arrangements do the Government have in care, the cost to society of institutional care will be very place to monitor what is happening at local level, so much higher than that of properly supported family care. that they can fulfil their pledges to improve support for carers? The changes in benefits, such as the change from There is also a small group of carers who currently DLA to PIP and the move to universal credit, could receive income support. They are not necessarily in the lead to thousands of carers losing carer’s allowance, so same household as the person for whom they care, but is the Department of Health assessing the impact of their caring responsibilities mean that they are unable those changes to families and indeed to services if to be in work—or at least to be in very much work. families can no longer afford to provide care? Will the Around 250,000 people are in that category. They will Minister seek to ensure that carers do not lose out in the transfer from income support to universal credit, and, welfare law reform proposals? At the moment, we are as currently drafted, there is no earnings disregard on being told that some of these things will be ironed out, that for carers. At the moment, a carer in receipt of potentially in detailed regulations. So, whatever happens income support has a £20 a week earnings disregard, with the Welfare Reform Bill today, detailed regulations which enables them to do some part-time work as well could still be needed and I want to know what the as their caring responsibilities and still have some financial Minister will do to raise this issue with her colleagues in benefit. An amendment to the Bill on Report was not the Department for Work and Pensions. Also, do the accepted by the Government, but I hope that they will Government intend to accept the Law Commission’s think again on that point. recommendations set out in its recent report on carers? There could also be people with caring responsibilities Finally, how should the forthcoming reform of the who would fall foul of the proposed benefits cap. A funding of social care take account of carers’contributions? single parent with three or more children living in a I thank everyone for their attention to this subject relatively high-rent area who also cares for a parent today and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s living somewhere else could be affected. The Government response in due course. have made much of the fact that people receiving DLA 2.52 pm will not be affected by a benefits cap, which is good. However, there are people who are carrying out an Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): The whole House important caring function who might, in certain owes the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila circumstances, be covered by the cap. I ask the Government Gilmore) a great “thank you” for having secured this to consider exempting them. debate in carers week. As co-chair with Baroness Pitkeathley, who is in the other place, of the all-party group on Important changes are also proposed in relation to carers, I am particularly glad to have the opportunity to the money that is given to families with disabled children. take part in this debate. Disability additions under universal credit will continue In the US Congress, there is a wonderful device that to be given in similar ways to the additions and premiums allows people to read a chunk of their speech into the that are given within the current benefit system. However, record. I am beginning to feel that for Westminster Hall the current lower rate of benefit is being halved. We are debates I should have a standard set of three paragraphs told that the higher rate is being increased—by £1 a about the budget deficit, which I will put on my website, week—but many families who have children receiving and that those paragraphs should be read into the the lower rate of payment will have their payment record. I say that because I think that it will be very halved. The reason being given for that is that it brings tedious during the course of this Parliament if Labour the disability additions for children into line with the colleagues simply come to Westminster Hall and say, disability additions for adults. However, I have a question, “Woe is us, the Government are having to make budget one that I have asked previously in relation to these reductions”, and I then have to explain, “Well, actually…” reforms. Why do such alignments always have to be I calculated all the money that the Government give downward? Why is it only deemed to be fair if we to my district council, county council, the Thames equalise downwards—not even meeting in the middle, Valley police authority and the health authority in my but equalising downwards—in this way? Given the area. We are spending more in 11 days simply on considerable additional costs that we know families funding the budget deficit than we are on funding all with disabled children have, this change seems to be those services in Oxfordshire. That is just not sustainable. another particularly harsh one and it will worsen the So we all have a collective responsibility to be grown-up position of many families. about the challenges that the Government have to face There is a cumulative effect to all of these changes. on the national finances. There are benefit changes of several kinds that might Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): We have had kick in for the same household, together with changes this type of discussion before about productivity, deficit in the support provided by local authorities for services reduction and so on. However, is it not the case that the such as home care. The cumulative effect of all these Government have made a firm commitment to protect changes will be very harmful indeed to families who the most vulnerable people in society and is it not right have someone who needs a certain level of care. There that Labour Members, who have turned out in numbers will also be a particular effect on the carers themselves, for this debate today, should hold the Government to those people who we are only too pleased to praise in account on that commitment? This issue is about choices this one week of the year. We have to put our money and the Government are making a choice here that will where our mouth is on this subject. affect some of the most vulnerable people in society. 295WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 296WH

Tony Baldry: Of course all of politics is about choices. in its supermarkets who might have caring responsibilities. However, the hon. Gentleman might want to reflect on Staff talked to customers and if it seemed that a customer the fact that the international credit-scoring agencies might be a carer, they were asked if they were in fact a are now rating Greece as one of the countries that is at carer. If the customer said, “Yes”,they were then directed greatest risk of having its finances collapse; only Ecuador to a trained member of the Torbay Care Trust. In a very and Jamaica are at greater risk in that respect. If one short period, that initiative led—in just one supermarket—to does not take responsible actions to maintain the nation’s 140 new people signing up with the Torbay carers’ finances in good order, one runs that type of risk. The register. Government have made sensible choices about increasing Sainsbury’s is going to expand that initiative to other spending on the NHS in real terms, but that means that stores across the country. I suspect that huge numbers there are consequences elsewhere and other choices of people who act as carers do not know that that is have to be made. I think that we have to be grown-up what they are, for example, husbands and wives who about that. look after loved ones, and young people who look after parents. We should be working as hard as possible to Jack Dromey: The hon. Gentleman is of course right help people to recognise that they are carers. Considerable that those in government, whether that is central or help and support are available for people who know local government, should be wise custodians of the they are carers. In carers week, one can see that a range public purse. Can he explain, therefore, why Birmingham of organisations have come together— city council defied advice that it was acting in breach of the Disability Discrimination Act 2005 and spent £750,000 on pursuing a case that ultimately failed? Would it not Barbara Keeley: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? have been wiser for the council to have spent that money on care for the elderly and disabled in Birmingham? Tony Baldry: I will give way to the hon. Lady in a moment. Tony Baldry: With respect to the hon. Gentleman, it A range of organisations that provide advice and is often difficult for statutory bodies to know where support have come together, including Age UK, Carers their responsibilities lie and that is particularly so in the UK, Counsel and Care, Crossroads Care, Dementia world that we all have to live in—a world of emerging UK, Macmillan Cancer Support, the Multiple Sclerosis human rights legislation. I must declare an interest as a Society, Parkinson’s UK and the Princess Royal Trust practising barrister. I have to say that the main growth for Carers, but they obviously cannot give advice unless area for the Bar at the moment is judicial review, people actually recognise that they are carers. including judicial review in the Supreme Court, to test the statutory responsibilities of local authorities, and I Barbara Keeley: I agree that identifying and supporting am sure that we will see more of that. Having said that, carers is important. Will the hon. Gentleman therefore I do not think that that gets away from the Government’s communicate to the Minister with responsibility for responsibility to try to bring the nation’s finances back care services that he should support my Carers into some balance. (Identification and Support) Bill, which the Government have indicated they would not support? The Bill would Anas Sarwar: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? provide a basis for the proper identification of carers by NHS bodies, local authority bodies and schools. It is Tony Baldry: I am sorry, but I will not give way any more appropriate that public bodies help to identify more because these exchanges demonstrate why I need carers, rather than the task being left entirely to to read into the record for future debates the three supermarkets such as Sainsbury’s. paragraphs that I mentioned earlier. We would all love to have lots more money that we could spend, but alas that is not the case. Tony Baldry: I do not dissent from that, and in a second I will come on to the Law Commission’s report. With regard to this particular debate, it seems to me It is important that we recognise carers, and if statutory that there is a lot more that can be done to help and bodies can help to identify them, that too is important. support carers without necessarily spending a huge amount of extra money. The first thing that we ought to We are fortunate this afternoon to have the Under- do, or at least we ought to make a much greater effort to Secretary of State for Health present, and I wish to do, is to identify which people are carers and to encourage make a couple of points about carers and health. Often carers to see themselves as carers. Local authorities nowadays, when a person being cared for goes to see provide considerable services for carers, but of course their GP or a specialist, the carer is treated as if they they can only provide those services if people identify were invisible. The concept of patient confidentiality is themselves as carers. being used as a mechanism for denying the person who is being cared for the support of their carer, whether it is children taking their aged parents to see the doctor, or a Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): husband taking his wife or vice versa. Often, the carer is Will the hon. Gentleman give way? able to provide counsel and care for the person they are caring for, and they should not be seen by the GP or the Tony Baldry: I will not give way, as I just want to health service as invisible. The NHS, GPs and the Royal make a little more progress. College of General Practitioners need to work out a I was quite interested in a note from Sainsbury’s. protocol for how the NHS deals with carers. There Sainsbury’s has been pursuing an initiative in Torbay to obviously have to be some balances concerning patient help to identify “hidden” carers. It was working with confidentiality, but it must be possible to work out how the Torbay Care Trust and it sought to identify customers the NHS should deal with and respond to carers. 297WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 298WH

[Tony Baldry] Often, carers do not know that they are entitled to a carer’s assessment, and many local authorities, perhaps Carers are most concerned about the people they are for understandable reasons, do not prompt people to caring for needing access to the NHS in the evenings think about asking for one. If such major social care and at weekends, when there are out-of-hours systems rights for carers were incorporated in primary legislation, in place. The out-of-hours GP system was, at it happens, it would be the first time that a Government had taken brought in by the previous Government, and it is of such a step. It would therefore be helpful to know variable quality across the country. I think that the whether the Government intend to accept the Law Minister will find that one of the growing pressures on Commission’s recommendations on carers. The only the NHS is the number of people who self-refer to difficulty with the Law Commission’s proposals is that accident and emergency departments in the evenings they deal only with adult carers. Any legislation needs and at weekends, because they can at least be confident to address the rights of parents of disabled children as of being seen, even if they do not need A and E well as the rights of the growing number of young treatment. They cannot be turned away at the door carers. because the NHS has a duty of care when they turn up. Secondly—I will not repeat the points made by the It might be sensible to have primary care triage in A and hon. Member for Edinburgh East—will the Minister E departments. We have a Darzi centre in Banbury, but help the House in relation to carer’s allowance? To get I see no reason why one should not have primary care it, people need to get a certain level of disability living triage at the door of A and E so that people who do not allowance or, in future, personal independence payment. require A and E services can be confident of accessing There is some concern and, indeed, confusion about primary care without having to hang on on various who will be entitled to carer’s allowance in future. It is a helplines, or talk to distant voices in which they have no significant allowance for many carers, because it is a confidence. That would give much greater confidence to non-means-tested benefit that signals and validates the carers and to those for whom they were caring, and fact that someone is a carer. It is therefore a valuable would significantly reduce the cost to the NHS of the allowance in terms of not only the monetary value, but significant number of inappropriate treatments and the recognition that someone is a carer. It would be admission at weekends and in the evenings. helpful to have some clarification on that point. Another responsibility of the Department of Health are carers’ breaks, about which many carers are very concerned. One of the longest running campaigns of 3.19 pm the all-party group on carers over the years has been on Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): It carers’ breaks. There are supposedly significant amounts is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, of money in the system—some £400 million—for carers’ Mr Streeter—let us hope that we do not have too many breaks but, as is the case with so much money, it is not more interruptions. ring-fenced. Some PCTs have been extremely good about that, but we will need to watch where the money goes, There cannot have been a more worrying time to have particularly as we transfer to GP commissioning. Can caring responsibilities, given the abuses at Winterbourne we develop systems of best practice? It is not just a View; there must be a real worry that such things are question of talking about carers’ breaks; we also need happening in other care homes or hospitals. There are to ensure that systems are in place. real worries about the future of Southern Cross, which is still very uncertain. There are also the issues that we are discussing, including the cuts to council budgets, 3.6 pm which are resulting in the downgrading or loss of packages Sitting suspended for a Division in the House. of care services. Carers have a range of worries and fears, some of which I want to cover, because these are 3.16 pm serious problems for many families and it is right that On resuming— we are debating them today. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) Tony Baldry: Let me conclude this part of my speech on securing the debate and on the excellent way in by asking whether the Minister will give an undertaking which she opened it. that her Department will closely monitor what happens It is 10 years since I started to meet carers in the to the money that is allocated for breaks for carers course of research that I undertook for the Princess as we move from primary care trust funding to GP Royal Trust for Carers. In that work, I met many commissioning. hundreds of carers, who opened my eyes to the issues Finally, I want to make two brief points. First, the with which they live day in, day out. Some time after I hon. Member for Edinburgh East spoke about the Law entered Parliament in 2005, I introduced the Carers Commission’s proposals for reforming social care law. (Identification and Support) Bill—not all Members were That sounds a rather dry topic, but an enormous amount here when I said that I will send a copy to the Under- of Back-Bench time has been invested in it. Most carers’ Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member for rights have come about in law because various private Guildford (Anne Milton), and to the hon. Member Members’ Bills have been brought before the House for Banbury (Tony Baldry) because he seems to support over the years by the right hon. Members for Coatbridge, the ideas behind it very much. Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) and for Croydon This year, the theme for carers week is, “The true face North (Malcolm Wicks), Lord Pendry and the hon. of carers”, and its aim is to highlight what life is like for Member for Aberavon (Dr Francis). They have had carers and the challenges they face. New research for carers’ rights at their heart, but the need for a carer’s carers week shows that 80% of carers are now worried assessment is the gateway. about the consequences of cuts to services. As has been 299WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 300WH mentioned, the survey of social service directors showed Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I do not think of that adult social care services face cuts of £1 billion. my constituency as different from anyone else’s, so I am The Minister has been asked this question, but I would sure that the hon. Lady will agree that young carers like to emphasise the point: what assessment have the clearly play an important role. Those who are 16 years Government made of the impact on carers of the old and under do not qualify for any financial assistance, estimated £1 billion in cuts to social care services? I have but their role is critical for the family, parents and those some detail on impacts being felt in Greater Manchester. they look after. Does she feel that the coalition Government Whatever we think about it, many councils are having should address the importance of young carers? to struggle with the Government’s swingeing front-loaded Barbara Keeley: I very much agree. I have a point to cuts, amounting to 27% over four years—that is the make later about that topic, because the staff who work figure in the Budget. Many have found themselves on the young carers project in my constituency have having to cut grants to voluntary organisations, which said that they are very concerned about carers losing is having an impact, and many are increasing or removing their education maintenance allowance. That is the one caps on care charges. As we have heard, the survey support that the state gave young carers and it is going, undertaken by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington which is a worry. South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) showed that To return to the testimony from Parkinson’s UK, the 88% of the councils that responded were increasing final points were about more carers contacting the staff charges for social care and 54% were cutting support to member to ask for help finding respite because they are the voluntary sector. It is a double whammy—cuts in struggling to cope; financially, they cannot now afford a support and increases in charges. break, a treat or a holiday. I am glad that the hon. Like everyone else, carers are hit by increases in the Member for Banbury raised that point. The staff member cost of living, which we must also take into account. said: Fuel costs and VAT affect them in the same way as they “I know of one carer who has had to take on a part time affect other people. Most carers are financially worse cleaning job in the early evening because money is so tight. She off than other people, because many have had to cut puts her husband to bed before she leaves”— down on or give up work so that they can care. for work— For this debate, I asked local organisations in Greater “at 4pm so that he is safer and so she won’t worry that he will fall Manchester to tell me exactly how cuts or fears about while she is out.” cuts are affecting carers. A staff member at the Bury, I think that we would agree that we would rail at care Salford and east Lancashire branch of Parkinson’s UK agencies that put a person to bed at 6 or 8 o’clock, yet told me of her experience. She said that there had been this carer has to put her husband to bed at 4 o’clock a big increase because that is the only way that she can do the cleaning job that she has to do. “in calls from people who are living on very tight budgets with no chance of increasing the family income due to disability and I also had some input from a branch of Age Concern caring responsibilities, distressed because they can’t afford day to in Greater Manchester about how cuts to grants are day living costs.” affecting its dementia support service, which is important The calls that she receives are about the knock-on because it is another line of support. Cuts to grants of effects of lack of money—stress, not eating well, relationship 40% over the next three years are affecting its capacity difficulties or breakdown, anxiety and depression. They to deliver individual and group support. That goes can lead to illness worsening, and if a carer becomes ill against objectives 5 and 7 of the national dementia and cannot cope, it can lead to hospital admission. She strategy. The staff member told me: also said something that ties in with points made earlier “Carer support groups have had to close. These are groups in the debate: where carers can get a break, have a chat to other carers and get advice and information from staff. These groups help to maintain “More people with Parkinson’s disease are being turned down morale and prevent carers from becoming socially isolated.” for”— Even though there are personal budgets, which will allowances such as— come in in Greater Manchester, carers of people with dementia often find it hard to mix in other social groups “disability living allowance and attendance allowance. There is no because of the “different” behaviour of the person with sense to who gets the benefit and who gets turned down…The distress this causes families is huge because they feel that they are dementia. Carers have described the groups as a “lifeline” begging. I can only imagine that families who don’t have support and something “to look forward to”. The fact that they miss out completely. The benefit is meant to pay towards the extra are being cut back is important. costs of having a disability, the fact that genuine people are being The proactive support to carers of phoning them turned down means that carers”— every few weeks is another aspect of Age Concern’s would end up— work that is being cut. The staff member said: “having to do even more.” “We now have to wait for them to contact us for time-limited intervention. We know that many older people are proud and My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East longsuffering and will often suffer in silence rather than ask for raised carers’ eligibility for benefit, which I think is and help.” will become the key issue due to the Government’s Before the cuts, branches of Age Concern in Greater programme of cuts and the uncertainty. The Minister Manchester ran special events for carers such as a carers has already been asked the question, but will she tell us day each year, parties and trips. The reduction in funding in this debate what the impact will be if those carers means that it can no longer offer the extras that it who lose their carer’s allowance decide that they can no knows give people a better quality of life. I am very longer afford to care? The responsibility for caring will concerned to hear that carers in my area in Greater then fall to the local council and the state. Manchester are starting to suffer. 301WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 302WH

[Barbara Keeley] 3.31 pm

I want to return to the two sides to the debate—values Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): Thank you, and choices. We are fortunate in Salford because, due to Mr Streeter. It is a pleasure to serve under your the way in which the cuts and the organisational turmoil chairmanship this afternoon. First and most importantly, in the NHS are being managed, we are not suffering as I congratulate the hon. Member for Edinburgh East much as other areas. There are choices. Labour-run (Sheila Gilmore) on securing this debate. It is the most Salford city council is now one of only 15% of local timely debate that we could imagine, given that this is councils still providing support to people with moderate carers week. The hon. Members for Stretford and Urmston care needs, as well as to those with substantial or critical (Kate Green) and for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) and needs. We are fortunate to have an excellent carers’ I were asked by Carers UK to act this week as carers’ centre run by the Princess Royal Trust for Carers. ambassadors in our constituencies and elsewhere to Salford has tried to ensure that carers continue to be promote some of Carers UK’s key messages. supported through these difficult times. As I mentioned On the true face of carers, the reality is that there are earlier, however much the council and our local NHS so many different faces, stories and anecdotes. As we bodies support carers and try to maintain what they are have heard, there are 175,000 young carers. There are providing, the national changes and cuts affect our carers. carers in work or grappling with the prospect of staying The young carers project will be affected when the in work while managing their caring responsibilities—I young carers lose their education maintenance allowance. will say a little about that in a moment—as well as The centre manager told me of two other concerns: the elderly carers. We receive many different stories in our changes to benefits and disabled people being called in e-mails and postbags every week. to take work capability assessments. The extra worry of having to take them and of having benefits curtailed are Let us celebrate carers week. It is about celebrating starting to affect carers. the invaluable work that carers do and showing our The centre manager also said that a major concern appreciation of those who give up their time, sometimes for her organisation was that although the carers’ centre at a cost to their own health and financial well-being. was very well established, the service has to go out to That message has come loud and clear from many tender through the joint commissioning process next Members in this debate, and I echo it. I will focus my year. She said: remarks on some of the personal experiences that “We are aware of a number of carers’ services which have gone constituents relay to us. out to tender in other areas, and bids have come in from organizations and agencies which have no experience, knowledge or expertise in We as a society unquestionably rely on carers to carers and carer issues, including organizations from abroad.” provide a service, and there are clear benefits to people What reassurance can the Minister give to staff of the caring for their loved ones: not only do they make them carers’ centre that an established, trusted and effective more comfortable, but they reduce pressures on health organisation such as theirs will not be undercut in the and social services. I was privileged this week to launch tendering process by organisations with no local knowledge a carers week event in my constituency. It involved the and no experience or expertise with carers or in carers’ book “Dywedwch ‘’Dwi’n iawn’…a’i Olygu”—the hon. issues? Our carers in Salford would lose out if they lost Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) might be the valuable support that they get from their carers’ able to understand that—or “Say ‘I’m Fine’…and Mean centre. It”. It is a good book that promotes some of the services available in my constituency and more widely. The Government’s economic policies are damaging It was produced by Ceredigion council and a local support to carers. Government cuts to local council project called Mind Your Heart to give carers advice on budgets have gone too far, too fast. Councils pleaded maintaining their physical and mental health. It is an not to have their budget cuts front-loaded. We have lost excellent project. I agree with the hon. Member for £1 billion from adult care services at a time of rising Banbury (Tony Baldry) that the voluntary sector has need, and we have lost billions in grants to the voluntary done and is doing much, although that is being impinged sector, but the worst thing is that we are only a few on by the scale of the decisions made here and, in the months into the first year of cuts, and we can already context of my constituency, in the Welsh Assembly. see the impact on carers. Carers are fearful about the cuts and distressed that they cannot manage financially. The outcome of a Wales-wide survey of carers—we People with serious conditions such as Parkinson’s are heard the UK figures from the hon. Member for Worsley being turned down for attendance allowance and made and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley)—revealed the extent to feel like beggars if they appeal. Young carers are of their concern and worry. As many as 71% of carers losing their education maintenance allowance. Carers have suffered health problems as a result of caring, 64% are now unable to afford a break or holiday. It is have had to give up their career ambitions and aspirations shameful that a carer should have to take a part-time since taking on their caring roles and 63% of carers cleaning job and put her husband to bed at 4 pm. were surprised at how hard it is to be a carer. Sometimes, That is not a record of which the coalition Government at comparatively short notice—even very short notice, can be proud, and it is so early in this Parliament. I such as after a car accident—carers suddenly discover hope that carers week gives Ministers time to rethink that they must undertake a life-changing role. Some the impact of the cuts that they are making. 43% of carers have a disability, condition or illness themselves. I met an 88-year-old constituent on Sunday Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Colleagues, three evening who had cared for his wife, also in her 80s, for Members have sought to catch my eye, and we have many years. Carers week is an opportunity to highlight 19 minutes before winding-up speeches begin, so can we such issues and concerns, given the inevitable decisions regulate ourselves to about six or seven minutes each? on the deficit that the Government must take. 303WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 304WH

The title of this debate, commendably, refers to the 3.39 pm effect of spending reductions on families. I will address that, but it is important to recognise that some decisions Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): It is a pleasure and prospective decisions made by Government could to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter, for the be good news for carers. However, there is a great deal first time in a Westminster Hall debate. I echo the of work to be done. The Government are embarked on tributes to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh a consultation on proposals to extend the right to East (Sheila Gilmore), whom I congratulate on securing request flexible working. I introduced a ten-minute rule this important debate on the effects of spending reductions Bill earlier this year to extend the definition of carers on families with caring responsibilities, not least because within current flexible working regulations and provide of the important changes being made in the House of for so-called day one rights, allowing carers to request Commons in the Welfare Reform Bill. flexible working from when they start a job, rather than I want to confine my remarks to a couple of issues, after waiting six months. I launched a lottery-funded because of the shortage of time. A survey of more than project in my constituency with Crossroads Care and 2,000 carers was recently carried out for carers week. It various local chambers to assist carers and boost their shows that 80% of unpaid carers are worried about cuts confidence in returning to the labour market where to services and that about 50% are unsure how they will their circumstances permit it. The challenge of finding be able to cope without the vital support that they the confidence to return to the labour market after currently receive. For the record and for anyone who is caring should not be understated. not involved directly as a carer, it is worth stating that three out of every five people will be an unpaid carer at We have had good news that the Government plan to some point during their lives. To respond to the point introduce a right for all workers to request flexible made by the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry), working, which is to be welcomed as a big step forward. those unpaid carers save the economy a huge sum. It is The Government have recognised that many successful difficult to quantify it, but it may be more than the total modem businesses acknowledge the importance of NHS budget—£103 billion each year. respecting that their staff will have other responsibilities and that the best way to ensure that they remain motivated We have done some research in County Durham. I and reach their potential is to give them the flexibility am proud to speak up for the vulnerable, the disabled that they need. It is a big issue. More than 150,000 and for carers. My county alone has 61,000 carers and people in Wales who are in paid employment have the estimated moneys saved to the public purse by the unpaid caring responsibilities. However, the Government very important work that these unpaid carers carry out have been less forthcoming on day one rights. There is a are £1 billion a year. We should not be dismissive of perception that it is somehow unfair for people who their needs and requirements. Each carer who works for have just been appointed to a job to request flexible nothing saves the Government, the taxpayer and the working. I contend that people should have the right to Exchequer the cost of a care worker, which is about request flexible working at the outset. Many of us share £18,000 a year. the view that if carers wish to work, they should be My own constituency of Easington is characterised given as much support as possible, but there is a barrier. by long-term ill health. As the hon. Member for East I have one minute, so I will rattle through my next Londonderry (Mr Campbell) has mentioned, many carers, points. I agree with colleagues about the concerns expressed particularly in my area, are themselves victims of ill by the hon. Member for Banbury, and consistently by health. That was highlighted by a recent report by Labour Members, on the arrangements for carer’s Carers UK. The legacy of coal mining and heavy industry allowance, changes to disability living allowance and has left many thousands of people debilitated in later the uncertainty involved. As the hon. Member for life by long-term disabilities and in need of care, which Edinburgh East said, clarity is lacking on those matters. is often provided not by the state, but by close family I also agree with the principle that if we embark on members. major changes, there must be a process for monitoring, I shall speak briefly about a number of issues. In evaluating and reporting back on them. Work on the particular, I want to draw Members’ attention towards, awareness of benefits is fundamental as well. and place on the record, the effects being felt by some of my constituents as a result of the transport costs they To return to my original point, a quote from a carer now face due to local government cuts, and towards in my constituency illustrates why carers week is so respite care, which has been mentioned. I also want to important in highlighting cases. A lady in my constituency ask the Minister a couple of questions—I hope that she who will remain anonymous cares for her disabled son. will answer them—about carer’s allowance and the She says: provisions in the Welfare Reform Bill. “I note the activities locally for carers week in Ceredigion, in which you are involved. I cannot attend such activities, as I am A constituent who came to see me recently is a trapped at home looking after my son. When I do have time full-time carer for her husband. She has one day a week without him (when he is at school) I am at work trying to retrieve of respite care. Her husband attends a day-care centre our family’s financial affairs from the effects of my son’s disability in Grampian House, in Peterlee in my constituency, and trying to keep some semblance of a life for myself apart from once a week for four and a half hours. That is the only my son. Disabled people and their carers are very often voiceless break she has. It is an excellent facility and I pay tribute for these reasons. This sounds dramatic, but it is a very small to its care staff. I have visited it myself and a close divide between coping and not coping. And the implications of relative of mine is in there. They do tremendous work in not coping are horrific.” terms of physiotherapy and rehabilitation. However, That is why this debate is important, why carers week is from September, due to the front-loading of cuts of important and why it is crucial for all of us to continue £67 million this year to my local authority of Durham to press the case for carers’ rights. county council, transport to the centre will be cut. It 305WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 306WH

[Grahame M. Morris] centre is a fantastic facility in Ormskirk. The staff are committed to providing high-quality care and support will cost my constituent £72 for specialist transport, to people who use the centre. It offers a wide range of which means that she will not be able to take her break facilities to meet the needs of the individual, whether and take advantage of the respite care. they have dementia or a physical disability. I have The issue of transport has been raised by many of my visited the centre many times and I am always impressed constituents. They understand that cuts to social care by it. by local authorities are due almost entirely to the swingeing, front-loaded cuts that the Government have imposed. In a shock move, however, Lancashire county council Councils are struggling to cope with massive funding has announced that it is increasing the daily cost from reductions from central Government. £5 a day to £30.75. That is not a small increase, but an People are also aware of the impact that the increase of nearly 500%. I wonder how that fits with the Government’s £18 billion package of cuts to the benefits mantra of not affecting front-line services. The council system will have on carers in particular. The Government says that, this year, it will not charge users more than accuse Labour of rejecting welfare reform, but I am £30 a week extra. However, next year that will also proud to say that we stand firm on the principle that the increase so that people will not pay more than £60 extra. most vulnerable should not be paying that £18 billion It is clear that, before long, anyone attending or wanting when some of the richest in society—most notably, the to attend the centre will have to pay the full cost of bankers and the banking sector—contribute only between using it. Today, my office received a call from a centre £2 billion and £5 billion to the cost of the deficit. user’s family who were angered by the scale of the increases. For them, the cost will rise from £40 a month I shall conclude my remarks, because time is short. to £160 a month for two days a week at the centre. That Another big issue that has been raised is that of ring-fencing is just one issue in Ormskirk. There are many cases in moneys for social services, with a distinctive sum identified which the elderly or disabled are being impacted by for carers’ services—the carer’s grant. Although it was Lancashire county council decisions. The dial-a-ride not ring-fenced under the previous Government, councils service, for example, has been almost decimated. Some at least knew how much money they were receiving for families will grumble about the cost but will be able to that purpose. The Minister has responsibility for public pay. Others will not be able to meet the costs and the health and I would like to congratulate my own soon-to- council will help. However, a great number of families disappear primary care trust, County Durham PCT, on in the middle will be sitting at home wondering whether, clearly ring-fencing, identifying and spending its allocation financially, they can afford to continue to use the centre from the Department of Health on the provision of and, conversely, whether, emotionally, they can afford respite care for people with disabilities and their carers. not to. How will the Government fulfil their pledges to improve the support for carers in the face of massive cuts to The second case is a group of mums who told me of local government? How will the Government ensure their concern about funding for Aiming Higher for that the proposed reforms, outlined in the Welfare Disabled Children. That programme finished at the end Reform Bill, do not result in carers losing their carer’s of March and since then no short breaks or activities allowance? The Government could give two promises have been available for families, even for a day or a few that would give confidence to those who are most short hours. The county council has said that it will vulnerable and most in need. First, budget cuts should consult parents on how the scheme will work but, in the not result in carers losing the services that they rely on. meantime, there are no services—zilch, nothing. No Secondly, carers should not lose out under changes to support is being offered whatsoever, and that is a huge the benefits system. burden. I understand that the summer holidays are coming up and that interim arrangements will be made, Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): I call Rosie Cooper, but that still does not address the proper concerns that who has four minutes. exist. In 2010-11, the funding for Aiming Higher was £4 million. Officers are now telling us that only £3.5 million 3.46 pm will be available for two years. That is a reduction of a half. Does the county council believe that half the need Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): Thank you, for the scheme will evaporate while it is considering its Mr Streeter, for the opportunity to contribute to this budget cuts, or is it dumping the care, responsibility and vital debate, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the the cost of children with disabilities back on to hard-pressed Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) on securing parents? it. I will not rehearse the arguments that we have already heard, because time is short. I will end my remarks because I have to cut them As a carer for my 86-year-old father, who was born short. I am really, really sad that when the local newspaper deaf, I have a deep personal understanding of the issues asked me about the matter, I said, “Well, this is now the and challenges that many carers face. I am deeply typical Conservative attitude. They know the price of concerned that the decisions taken by this Government everything and the value of nothing.”I find it gut-wrenching will massively compound the financial and emotional that the elderly and the most vulnerable will have to live pressures that carers face. Others have discussed the with the consequences of the Government’s decisions. national policy changes, but I would like to talk quickly We keep hearing that we are all in this together. Families about issues that affect my constituents. with caring responsibilities in West Lancashire are now Both of the two cases that I wish to address relate to realising that some people are in this more than others. services provided by Lancashire county council as the How can the Minister justify this, and look carers and social care provider in my constituency. The Derby day their families in the face? 307WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 308WH

3.51 pm The other piece of good news may be the Dilnot inquiry. I met Mr Dilnot again today. He is very generous Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) with his time and is meeting a broad range of people. (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, The meeting he had with me and my right hon. Friend Mr Streeter. The debate could clearly have gone on for the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) twice or perhaps three times as long. A feature of it has was the first of eight meetings that he is holding today. been the number of people who wanted to speak and Of course, we all agree that we need to make fundamental have not been able to. My hon. Friend the Member for changes, that the status quo will not do and that we Newport East (Jessica Morden) wanted to speak, as did must have a fundamentally reformed care system. The my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington Opposition believe that there should be high-quality (Jack Dromey). My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow care for those who need it and that care needs to be Central (Anas Sarwar) had also prepared something, funded in a fair way, with proper accountability for and my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon those who deliver it. North (Malcolm Wicks) had told me that he wanted to make a contribution. The fact that many people have We repeat the Leader of the Opposition’s invitation, shown an interest in the matter demonstrates its huge which was made on Tuesday 7 June. We welcome cross-party importance. talks and we would like them to happen as soon as possible. We will come with an open mind because we I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh want to be able to work together for the best way East (Sheila Gilmore) on securing the debate. It is very forward. I understand that the Prime Minister has easy to come out with a number of platitudes about welcomed that approach, but we still have an empty carers, but carers want to hear what we will do to help diary and we want to be able to get on with it. If the them. Carers probably save this country more in money failures of the past are repeated, we will not be forgiven than is spent on the national health service. By 2017, it by those who use the care system or their families. It is is likely that the UK will reach a tipping point, as the important to remember that, even with co-operation number of older people needing care will exceed the and a fair wind, we are unlikely to see any of Dilnot’s number of people of working age with families. There suggestions implemented until 2014-15. The current will be a crisis and we need to ensure that we are up to problem for carers is what is happening now to the dealing with it. We must be able to support those people social care system and their support . on whom we rely entirely. As has been said, if anyone I am afraid that that takes me to the end of the good is demonstrating the Prime Minister’s big society, it is news and into the bad news. As has been said very carers up and down the country, so we need to look eloquently by my hon. Friends, social care cuts are after them. clearly having a fundamental impact on the lives of Where is the good news? There is some good news, carers. I was going to congratulate the Minister of which has come from the Law Commission. It has State, Department of Health, the hon. Member for published a report that has largely received broad support Sutton and Cheam on finally taking his fingers out of from social care groups. A number of proposals are well his ears, stopping singing, “La la la la la,” and accepting thought out and will be well received, for example, that the cuts to social care will affect front-line services. rather than the carer needing to request an assessment, That is inevitable; there is no other option. Given that the local authority will have a duty to provide one. In social care is top-tier councils’ biggest area of discretionary addition, those assessments should be made for people spending, we simply cannot have 27% cuts to local who provide some care, rather than being restricted to authorities without there being cuts to social care. It those providing substantial care. Both those proposals just does not work. Unfortunately, the Government are sensible. The third proposal is to ensure that a have ignored the advice of the Association of Directors national system of eligibility assessments will provide of Adult Social Services and the Local Government some consistency across the country and allow people Group, who know what they are talking about. to move from one local authority to another without Although no centralised assessment of the impact of there being a huge time lag, which causes great distress the cuts to local government on social care was carried to families. That will allow some portability of care. out, several people have done the Government’s job for The Under-Secretary’s brother Minister who is them. A wealth of evidence has been provided by ADASS, responsible for care, the Minister of State, Department the BBC and my own survey. As has been mentioned, of Health, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam my survey of the directors of social care received 61 replies (Paul Burstow), has so far welcomed the Law Commission’s from councils and shows some very worrying results. I report. In his pre-coalition past, he expressed support am pleased that the Minister of State, Department of for many of the ideas it recommends. However, many Health, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam has of the issues will not come within the Department of complimented my survey as being robust, accurate and, Health’s ambit, but within that of the Department for indeed, more reliable than that done by the BBC. However, Communities and Local Government. Given that the he needs to look at the impact of it and what it means. Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government We will do the survey again next year and the year after, has indicated that he wants to conduct a review of local and I am afraid that we will not get good news. authority duties, there is some concern that he may be ADASS has shown this year that the shortfall to resistant to a new duty being put on local authorities to adult social care spending is £1 billion. The Government ensure that carers are assessed as well as the person have done their best not to affect adult social care, but needing care. I hope that that is not the case and that next year they have to cut again and the year after they people are speaking strongly in his ear, so that the Law have to cut yet again. If things are bad now, as has been Commission’s recommendations can be implemented in so eloquently reported by my hon. Friends, where are full because they are to carers’ advantage. we going? Do the Government have any idea of the 309WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 310WH

[Emily Thornberry] priorities and hard choices. As my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) impact of these cuts on carers? This has already been so eloquently put it, it is not right that a woman has to asked, but I repeat: how many of those who no longer put her husband to bed at 4 o’clock in order to do a meet councils’ very narrow eligibility criteria will need part-time cleaning job to pull things together. It makes to rely on the informal care provided by their families? “We are all in it together” hollow rhetoric. Do the Government know how many carers will have to go without support from their local authorities and will, as a result, be forced to give up work to meet their 4.2 pm new obligations? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health I was particularly pleased to hear what the hon. (Anne Milton): It is a pleasure to serve under your Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) said about respite chairmanship, Mr Streeter. Time is very short. I have care—I support him in that. The Government are right— about seven minutes, so I say up front that I will ensure our Government was right—to ensure that money is that hon. Members receive a note to answer the questions put aside for respite care. The difficulty is that the that I will not be able to address. As the hon. Member mechanics do not work. Primary care trusts have been for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) knows, this is an given that money. It is not ring-fenced. It is not clearly important debate. Like her, I would like to feel that this labelled. There is no accountability. The Department of is about more than just press releases this week. Indeed, Health is very unclear about which PCTs have spent it, we praise carers this week. We should praise them every in what way, how much they have worked with local single week and every single day—those we know about authorities, or how much they have worked with carers— and those we do not. there is no overall picture. Frankly, is that not the sort As the hon. Lady knows, in her constituency the of thing that the Government should do? It is not just a Scottish Government have overall responsibility for devolved question of handing out the money. Surely there needs budgets and I am sure that she will therefore take up to be some form of accountability. some of the issues with them. I note the cautionary tale The Princess Royal Trust for Carers has been doing about ring-fencing—mentioned by a few other hon. its best to conduct an audit of that, just as I am doing Members—and also tracking funding. Local authorities, an audit of local authorities and the impact of the cuts however, have a duty to provide community care to on social care, but surely that should be a job for those who meet eligibility criteria. The Department has Government. Surely the Princess Royal Trust for Carers set out an eligibility framework, which is important to has things to do other than conduct an audit of whether bear in mind. the money given by the Department of Health to PCTs for respite care for carers is actually being spent on Who cares for the carers? Somebody first said that to carers. That is part of the knock-on effect of the chaos me a very long time ago—in fact, when I was a district that has been created through the proposed partial nurse. Those with caring responsibilities need care abolition of PCTs in the Health and Social Care Bill. themselves, so that they can maintain their own health What action will the Government take if PCTs do not and well-being. Although it has not been mentioned work with local authorities and carers of organisations today, the figures on the physical, mental and emotional to publish plans and budgets? health of carers are shocking. The other piece of bad news, which has been mentioned, Care and support services from both the statutory is welfare reform. We welcome the Government’s and voluntary sectors face challenges, irrespective of announcement that carer’s allowance will be outside funding, like never before. Demographic changes mean universal credit. We also welcome the news that disability that most of us will either become carers or need care. living allowance will be excluded from the overall benefit Some of us already care for children with disabilities cap. However, the bad news is that, when the Government and are often lifetime carers. Others care for partners as talked about introducing personal independence payments, they grow older; some for ageing parents, neighbours or they said that there would be a 20% cut to DLA. It is friends. Carers come in all shapes and sizes, and with not just a 20% cut to DLA. Those people will not be different needs. It is important, when government at any springing from their beds, suddenly well. People with level tries to meet the needs of carers, to recognise that dependants will still be there. Not only will they, but they need specialist and personalised help, which is why their carers lose their money, because carer’s allowance personalised budgets are an important step. will be attached to DLA. There will, therefore, be a I will run through some of the money that is coming huge impact on the families of those people who are through, so that hon. Members can raise, with their losing their DLA. Do the Government have any idea of local authorities, what is happening to it. The spending how many carers will lose out as a result of moving review allocated an additional £2 billion by 2014-15 to DLA to the personal independence payment and the support the delivery of social care. Some of that funding 20% cut? Are the Government aware that carer’s allowance is already getting through. Some £162 million went in is not excluded from the proposed benefit cap, while during January, which was money transferred from DLA is? I am sure that the Minister would agree that NHS budgets to support care services that improve that is, at the very least, not consistent, let alone fair. people’s health and support carers. A further £648 million Mr Gary Streeter (in the Chair): Order. It may help will pass to local government in England in the same the hon. Lady to know that the debate ends at 4.10 pm, way. A further £1.3 billion is now supporting the transfer and I want to give the Minister some time to respond. of funding and the commissioning of learning disabilities services from PCTs to local councils, which will help. Emily Thornberry: May I just come back to this last One hon. Member raised the issue of integrating services. point? It is shocking that, at a time like this, carers That is very important. It applies to several Departments, suffer in the way that they do. It is a question of and it is also true at local authority level. 311WH Caring Responsibilities15 JUNE 2011 Caring Responsibilities 312WH

Taken together, that is the biggest ever transfer of is critical, and to support carers to maintain physical hard cash from health to social care. That is an important and mental wellness, because the physical burden of development and comes on top of the £530 million for providing care for a friend or family member can be social care this year from the Department of Health, significant. Ideally, carers who are identified at an early which we rolled up into the Government grant formula. stage can get the help that they need. The Department for Education is providing more than £800 million in the next four years for short breaks—they My hon. Friend the Member for Banbury mentioned are absolutely critical; respite breaks are a lifeline to the work that Sainsbury’s is doing. We should congratulate parents of children with disabilities—as part of the new it. Of course, it is not a substitute for other things, but it early intervention grant. is an important addition. Tomorrow morning, the Minister with responsibility for care services will launch a new We recognise that the current funding system needs e-learning tool for all GPs, developed in partnership overhauling. We cannot avoid the wider challenges that with the Royal College of General Practitioners and the demography brings us. My hon. Friend the Member for Princess Royal Trust for Carers. That will be an important Banbury (Tony Baldry) was 100% right about how the tool in enabling GPs to do what we need them to do. money is spent, and the hon. Member for Edinburgh The Department of Health has made a further £1.5 million East also mentioned monitoring. It is extremely important funding available for other initiatives to support GPs to that we identify carers early, so that we can meet their help carers further. Alongside the carers strategy, we needs early and they can continue to do what, essentially, published examples of how the principles of personalisation they want to do, which is to care for those who live with have been applied locally, emphasising the value of them. finding ways forward that make sense and work best The Dilnot commission will report in July and will locally. help us find new ways to modernise the funding of social care and ensure that it is more in line with the I have to say to Opposition Members that the country demands and expectations of the 21st century. The is financially where it is because that is where we found carers strategy, which we published in November 2010, it when we took over from the previous Government. sets out our priorities. Those priorities are important The hon. Member for West Lancashire (Rosie Cooper) because we measure what central Government and local shakes her head. We cannot get away from the fact that authorities do against them. They are: to support those we inherited a massive budget deficit that we are now with caring responsibilities to identify themselves as having to tackle. Opposition Members look as if they carers at an early stage, and involve them in designing are in denial. The hon. Lady, who is a sensible person, local care provision and planning individual care packages; asked how we could look carers in the face, but how can to enable those with caring responsibilities to fulfil their members of the previous Government look carers in the educational and employment potential, which is absolutely face? We have been left with some difficult decisions. We critical as young carers do not necessarily get to any have to ensure that every £1 of taxpayers’ money actually step on any ladder as far as education and employment buys £1-worth of care, to support carers in the ways in are concerned; to personalise support for carers, which which they need it. 313WH 15 JUNE 2011 Eyesight Tests (Drivers) 314WH

Eyesight Tests (Drivers) they voluntarily report that they have a serious vision impairment to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency. Once drivers have reached the age of 70, in order to 4.10 pm renew their licence they are asked to confirm that they Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): I am have acceptable vision, but they are not required to delighted to have secured a debate on eyesight regulations prove it. for drivers, especially as we are in the middle of national The Department for Transport has been consulting eye health week. As I speak, an event to mark the week on the medical standards that should apply to eyesight is taking place in Parliament, and in my home city of tests for safe driving. Astonishingly, the Department is Sheffield a wide range of organisations is holding an proposing that the testing distance should be reduced awareness day in the city centre. South Yorkshire police, from 20.5 metres to 17.5 metres. The Sheffield Royal in conjunction with the Sheffield Royal Society for the Society for the Blind is extremely concerned that any Blind, are focusing on the issue that brings me here relaxation in the requirements could be detrimental to today: the importance of good sight for driving and, in road safety. Can the Minister give me details of the particular, drivers who do not realise that their sight is evidence that was considered before reaching that proposal? deteriorating. What is her evidence to suggest that such a test is adequate in any way? I have been engaged on the subject for some time. I was contacted by my constituent Joy Barnes, whose The current eyesight test is simply no longer fit for niece tragically died in a road accident caused by a purpose. In contrast with the tragic death of Fiona driver whose eyesight was not up to the necessary Buckley, it is not possible to attribute many road accidents standard. Joy’s niece, Fiona Buckley, was just 43 when directly to poor eyesight. Eyesight is often only one of she died. She was born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus, the factors that might be involved; others include the so spent much of her adult life in a wheelchair. Fiona time of day, the weather, the condition of the road and worked in the city centre Shopmobility service and in tiredness. However, it is common sense that poor vision the Royal Hallamshire hospital as a welcomer. A bubbly will impair any driver’s performance, even taking into person, she enjoyed a lively social life and, in her account all other conditions. younger days, was an accomplished swimmer, later The distance number plate test has been in place since becoming an avid photographer and Scrabble player. the 1930s and is outdated. It has remained unchanged, Her family describe Fiona as a generous and courageous despite increased numbers of vehicles on the road and spirit. developments in road safety standards and clinical At 10 pm on 6 December 2008, Fiona was crossing technology. It is not scientifically based and does not the road, with her friend Kay Pilley walking just behind. reflect modern day knowledge of vision. The number Witnesses said that the car approaching did not attempt plate test also only measures visual acuity—put simply, to overtake or brake, but ran straight into them, and the ability to see at a distance. It does not produce Fiona was thrown over the vehicle. She suffered a major consistent results and can be affected by environmental head injury and her pelvis, spine and leg were broken. conditions. Drivers can fail the test in different lighting Six weeks later, she died in hospital from multiple organ or weather conditions. Several scientific publications failure. Kay suffered head and knee injuries and was have questioned the accuracy and reliability of the treated at hospital; she could not remember what had number plate test as a method of screening visual happened. acuity. Also, it does not test visual field—put simply again, the ability to see around while looking straight Police officers subsequently tested the 87-year-old ahead. Visual field loss can advance significantly without driver’s eyesight, and found that he could not read a car a person becoming aware of a problem. For instance, number plate from the required distance of 20.5 metres. glaucoma is a condition that someone can have and yet He was later found to have cataracts in both eyes, which pass a number plate test with insufficient field vision. had probably been there for some 18 months. A doctor The current system also requires self-reporting and said it would give him “foggy or hazy” sight that could therefore relies on individual drivers being aware of the have rendered Fiona almost invisible to him. He also required standard, realising that they do not meet it and suffered from age-related macular degeneration, which knowing that not notifying the DVLA of any problem blurs the central vision. With his right eye, he could see is a criminal offence. However, many drivers do not only from 6 metres what people with good vision can notice what can be a gradual change in their vision, read from 24 metres. The driver admitted causing death remaining unaware that they fall below the required by careless driving, but the judge decided not to punish legal eyesight standard. him for killing Fiona. The driver was given only three penalty points. Fiona’s aunt, Joy Barnes, speaking on Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I can suggest one behalf of her wider family said: method of checking everyone’s eyesight, including mine. “Fiona’s death hit us all hard. The driver should not have been I register an interest as a diabetic—type 2 of course, on the roads with such poor eyesight and it is a travesty that controlled by diet. If people visit an optician every year, nothing is done to make sure that drivers meet a minimum the optician tells them about their eyesight. Might that standard of sight. If this driver had been made to have a sight test be a method whereby people can check if their eyesight to keep his licence then Fiona would still be with us.” is deteriorating? During the current driving test, the examiner gives the driver three chances to read a number plate, from Meg Munn: The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting 20 metres for vehicles displaying the new-style plate or point about what could be done if the current system, 20.5 metres for old-style plates. Following that, the which puts the onus on the driver, continues. I will drivers of cars, small vans and motorbikes need not argue, for good reasons, that an eye test should be a take any form of eye test for the rest of their life, unless requirement. 315WH Eyesight Tests (Drivers)15 JUNE 2011 Eyesight Tests (Drivers) 316WH

Many people with glaucoma do not have any symptoms from vision, which underlines the importance of always until the condition is quite advanced. The National driving with good eyesight. Being an experienced and Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence guidance skilled driver who is aware of the dangers of the roads is advises that once vision loss becomes apparent, up to simply meaningless if one is unable to spot hazards in 90% of optic nerve fibres might already have been time. Research shows that one in six drivers cannot see damaged. The general manager of Sheffield Royal Society well enough to pass a very basic eyesight test. People for the Blind, Steve Hambleton, said: who are reluctant to give up their driving licence cannot “when people are diagnosed with an eye condition that impacts be relied on to inform the authorities if they have upon their ability to drive safely, the onus is on the driver to notify eyesight problems. DVLA. We encounter too many people who do not do this and Making the changes that I suggest would have public continue to drive. In these days of data protection etc., it is support. In vox pop interviews this morning, my local extremely difficult if not impossible for organisations such as ours to advise DVLA of our concerns.” radio station, Radio Sheffield, spoke to five people—only a few, but four of the five thought that those changes Last month, I attended the launch of the UN decade were sensible and saw no problem with them. BRAKE, of road safety, which was addressed by the Secretary of the road safety charity, released a survey, which no State for Transport. The UK has a proud record: Great doubt involved a few more people than the five in Britain had the fourth fewest road deaths per million Sheffield, showing that 75% of drivers support compulsory people, we have been in the top five performing countries eyesight testing for drivers every five years. throughout the past decade and we were in first place in Continuing with a system of drivers self-reporting 2009. Yet on eyesight testing, we are lagging behind any problems that they may have is not the answer. Poor many countries and many of our neighbours in the driver eyesight kills, and every death is devastating to European Union. The EU has recently published directives the people involved. The Government should act on the to standardise driving licences and to harmonise European professional advice, which commands support among standards. The UK lags behind best performance of drivers, and change the driving test to ensure that all most other European countries in assessing drivers’ drivers can see what lies ahead of them while on the vision. A report released only this week outlines that a road. majority of EU member states assess visual acuity and visual fields in advance of issuing a first full driving licence. The UK is among the minority that requires no 4.23 pm further assessment of vision throughout a driving career. The Minister of State, Department for Transport The 2006 and 2009 EU driving licence directives (Mrs Theresa Villiers): It is a pleasure to serve under continue a long path to harmonise driving licences with your chairmanship, Mr Streeter. I congratulate the hon. the overall aim of improving road safety and facilitating Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) on securing enforcement throughout EU countries. Is the Minister this debate, on her speech today, and on her long-standing really content to see our otherwise excellent record on work on this important issue. It is a welcome opportunity road safety lag far behind the best practice of our near to highlight the crucial point that those with defective neighbours? Given that the EU directive recommends a eyesight that does not meet the required standards visual field of at least 120 degrees, how can the number should not drive on our roads. plate test be sufficient to comply? I want to put on record my sincere condolences for The only way to make sure that drivers continue to the hon. Lady’s constituent, Joy Barnes, on the tragic have adequate vision is to make eyesight testing mandatory death of her niece, Fiona Buckley, in the incident that at regular intervals throughout the time they hold a the hon. Lady described. The case was tragic, and I licence. Drivers should have to provide regular proof offer my sympathies to Fiona’s family and friends for that they have had their eyes tested by a medical professional their loss. and that they meet minimum standards for visual acuity In responding to the issues raised by the hon. Lady, it and visual field. That should happen at least every may help if I reiterate and clarify the current arrangements 10 years, coinciding with drivers renewing their photo for renewing the entitlement to drive. Most drivers do driving licence. That would be a simple and inexpensive not need to renew that entitlement until the age of 70. step that would vastly improve the eyesight of drivers They must then renew every three years for as long as throughout the UK. I also recommend that when drivers they remain fit to drive. Someone at the age of 70 could reach the age of 70 and have to self-certify that they are be fitter, more alert and more active than some individuals fit to drive, they should be required to submit evidence who are younger, which is why licensing decisions are from an appropriate professional that they have a safe based on health rather than age. Although age is not and legal level of eyesight. always a reliable indicator of an individual’s physical The present inadequacies must be addressed. That and mental health, it is widely accepted that health can view is supported by the Optical Confederation, which deteriorate in old age in ways that may affect the ability represents 12,000 optometrists, and the 6,000 dispensing to drive safely. opticians and 7,000 optical businesses in the UK. Those When renewing their entitlement to drive, drivers organisations and many others concerned with road must, as the hon. Lady said, complete a self-declaration safety have submitted their concerns to the Department affirming their ability to read a number plate from for Transport’s consultation. Will the Minister report 20 metres away. They must also confirm that they do on the outcome of the consultation, and when will the not have any medical condition that affects their ability Government respond to it? to drive safely. That allows attention to be focused on Having good eyesight is one of the most basic those individuals who declare that they have a medical requirements for safe driving. It is widely recognised condition, those who have been found to have one, and that 90% of sensory information when driving comes those who need some sort of investigation to determine 317WH Eyesight Tests (Drivers)15 JUNE 2011 Eyesight Tests (Drivers) 318WH

[Mrs Theresa Villiers] The hon. Lady made a number of points about the effectiveness of the number plate test as a way of testing whether they can retain their licence to drive. Those vision. As she said, the standard of vision required for detailed investigations into medical fitness to drive may safe driving requires someone to read a number plate at include the collection of information from the driver a distance of 20 metres. For people with visual field and their doctor, a physical examination or a driving problems, other specific standards have to be met. All assessment. drivers are required by law to meet the appropriate The hon. Lady expressed concern about drivers who eyesight standard at all times while driving. If they are do not tell DVLA that they can no longer meet the level unable to read a number plate, even if that is only of fitness, including eyesight, needed for driving. One because they failed to wear the appropriate prescribed may speculate that that is because they worry about the glasses or lenses, they are committing an offence. Driving impact of losing their licence, or because a medical licence applicants must declare that they are able to condition makes them unaware of the implications of read a number plate to obtain a licence. They will be their failing health. That is why DVLA accepts notifications asked to prove their ability to do that to their driving from third parties, and that is an important element of instructor during the practical driving test. the enforcement process. Around 8,000 notifications of I assure the hon. Lady that we comply with EU concern received from doctors, police and family members directives on the visual field. The number plate test is are investigated each year. Guidelines produced by the not expected to test the visual field. A visual field General Medical Council for doctors confirm that they problem is caused by an underlying medical condition, are justified in telling DVLA about a patient who fails and those with such conditions are required by law to to stop driving following medical advice to do so. notify the DVLA, which has long-standing procedures Similar guidelines have been produced by the College of in place to assess whether the minimum visual field Optometrists for its members. requirements are met. Those requirements include referral DVLA forms and literature remind drivers of the to an optometrist for a specialist examination and report. ongoing requirement to meet the eyesight standard, and The Government believe that the number plate test is an specifies that failure to meet the standard is an offence. effective screening tool. Its use as a means of assessing Whenever DVLA contacts drivers, consideration is given whether a driver meets the required eyesight standard to whether it is possible to highlight the continuing has been subject to departmental and Scientific Advisory obligation to notify the DVLA of defective eyesight and Committee scrutiny, and it has stood the test of time. appropriate medical conditions. We also seek to give The hon. Lady referred to a consultation document information to drivers about the conditions that they that was issued in relation to a possible revision of must tell DVLA about relating to field of vision. That is health standards for driving. That consultation looked an important part of the enforcement process. Directgov at whether, instead of maintaining our current higher has an A-Z of medical conditions to help drivers to standard, the UK standard should be brought into line decide whether they need to tell DVLA of any aspect of with the minimum required by the European Union. their health. Detailed guidelines for doctors are also No decision has yet been made, but if it were proposed available to help them to advise their patients on medical to align our standard with the minimum standard required notification requirements. by the EU, the distance over which someone is required The Government’s view is that the current arrangements to read a number plate would be reduced. Responses to strike the right balance between road safety and personal the consultation are being analysed; some issues need mobility. There is not sufficient evidence to suggest that further consideration and that is under way at the a more burdensome and costly regime would have a moment. It is important that any proposed changes are significantly positive effect on road safety. The majority evaluated fully and that appropriate consideration is of older people continue to drive safely, and to retain given to their potential impact. The points raised by the insight into their ability to do so. hon. Lady this afternoon will no doubt feed into the process of reaching an ultimate decision. Once an evaluation Meg Munn: I understand what the Minister is saying of the consultation responses is complete, the Government about conditions, and being able to look things up, will take an informed decision on how to proceed and which is fine if someone knows that they have a problem, issue a formal response to the consultation. or someone has suggested that their sight is deteriorating, In the meantime, there is much to be said in support for example, but much of the evidence is that people of the current system. The number plate test is a simple simply do not know. Providing information does not and functional assessment of vision that can be easily help them, and unless they have a test they may not carried out in the driving environment and reproduced know that they are suffering a problem. regularly by an individual, as opposed to a periodic appointment with an optician. Although it is largely a Mrs Villiers: As I said, whenever possible, the test of visual acuity, to some extent it can test glare and communications that DVLA sends to drivers refer to contrast sensitivity. It provides a good indication that those conditions to alert them to the continuing need to the licence holder meets—and continues to meet—the ensure that they can pass the 20 metres test. One of the required visual acuity standards for driving. The test is benefits of that test is that it is simple, and people can easily reproduced at Driving Standards Agency test do it if they walk outside this building. We seek in those centres by examiners, and at the roadside by the police. ways to alert people to the importance of doing that test At a modest estimate of £20 per test, it would cost regularly. On the whole, older people make sensible more than £20 million each year if an optician’s certificate decisions about when and how they drive, and some or eyesight test were required by the 1 million motorists older drivers voluntarily engage with local services to who apply for their first driving licence. If such a test improve their driving skills and get independent advice. were compulsory for each of the 2.5 million motorists 319WH Eyesight Tests (Drivers) 15 JUNE 2011 320WH who renew their driving licence each year because their Housing (Bradford) photograph is 10 years old, it would cost more than £50 million a year. 4.37 pm Meg Munn: The Minister is generous in giving way Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD): I do not think again. Given the cost of motoring, the figures she that our paths have crossed, Mr Streeter, but I am mentions are tiny amounts of money compared with pleased to serve under your chairmanship and to face what people spend on learning to drive. Does she my colleague the Minister. This is a wonderful opportunity understand how complacent she sounds, and how angry to highlight an important issue, and I hope that I do it my constituent will be at her response? Given her inability justice. to offer any comfort to my constituent, will the Minister A famous statistic alleges that Bradford once had take on board the need to do a great deal more to raise more Rolls-Royces per head of population than anywhere awareness of this issue? else in the world. If that were ever true, I am sad to say that it must have been a long time ago. I remember Mrs Villiers: I completely refute the allegation of being a young councillor during the recession of the complacency. The Government are very focused and 1980s—that really was a recession—and one council place high priority on road safety. We are determined to estate I represented had 70% male unemployment. Most continue the UK’s good record on road safety, but we of the unemployed men on that estate walked out of believe that the current arrangements are an effective school in the ‘50s, ‘60s or even the ‘70s, and went means of maintaining safety on our roads. We must straight into jobs. Sadly, when made redundant, many take into account the costs of what the hon. Lady never worked again. Sadder still, their children went on proposes. Household budgets are stretched at the moment to have children who have never worked. and it is tough for people to add to those budgets Believe it or not, two thirds of the entire Bradford commitments of this kind. If each of the 1.5 million district is rural, and it is one of the most diverse areas in motorists who renew their driving licence at the age of the country. It ranges from the prosperous Ilkley, where 70 were required to undergo such a test, that would cost house prices are, surprisingly, at their highest ever level a further £30 million each year—a significant sum of at present, to areas such as two wards in my constituency money. As all drivers over 70 are entitled to a free where, in some parts, 68% of children are categorised as eyesight test, that additional burden and cost would fall living in poverty. on the Department of Health and the devolved Administrations. Added to that is the caution that, Bradford has gone from being one of the wealthiest while an optician’s certificate, or equivalent, might provide cities in the world to being a city with deep economic assurance that someone has had their eyes tested, it and social problems. Over 30 years, Bradford has had would not guarantee that they could meet the current millions of pounds of regeneration funding from every eyesight standard while driving, or that they used their scheme that was on offer. The schemes were not without prescribed glasses or corrective lenses. The optician’s success, but the fundamental weakness of the economy test does not provide all the answers. has led to deep-rooted problems of poverty, high unemployment, low educational attainment, dire health In conclusion, the Government are confident that outcomes in many areas, a decaying housing stock and, current arrangements are effective and working well. at times, as we know, frightening social tensions. The UK has one of the safest road networks in the world and I am afraid that we simply cannot justify the The housing problem stands out as one of the many cost that indiscriminate, mandatory eyesight screening consequences of economic failure in Bradford. I started would impose on individuals, the Government and the this speech on housing by referring to the declining devolved Administrations. Furthermore, there is little economic history of Bradford because, in addition to evidence to suggest that compulsory formal eyesight the contribution that housing policy can obviously make tests would have any marked positive effect on road to meeting housing needs, it can make a contribution as safety. a fundamental element of the regeneration of the community’s economy. The coalition Government take road safety seriously and are determined to maintain and improve the country’s I must admit that there are many concerns about long-standing and strong record. Any road death caused some of the proposals that the Government are considering. by defective vision is an avoidable and unnecessary Those include changes to the shared room rate and tragedy, and all of us who use UK highways must take paying the rent element of universal credit directly to personal responsibility for ensuring that we have an tenants. That may have severe consequences: 80% of the appropriate level of vision for driving. I take the opportunity tenants of the largest social landlord are on benefits. to place on the record how important it is that all The changes include flexible tenancies, restricting housing drivers, regardless of age, do not simply wait for their benefit for tenants who are under-occupying and capping next eye appointment, but check regularly that they can local housing allowance at the four-room rate. Many of read a number plate from a distance of 20 metres. That those changes will potentially have adverse effects on simple test can alert individuals to a deterioration in people in Bradford. I will continue to campaign on their vision that they may not have noticed, and to the those issues on other occasions. Today, in the limited need to make an appointment to see their optician. The time available, I want to focus on the most crucial number plate test is saving lives on our roads. It is an aspect of housing policy—its contribution to economic effective test in which the Government continue to have regeneration. confidence. The Government’s housing policy as it affects Bradford can at worst impair economic regeneration, or, if delivered with consideration of and adaptation to local circumstances, play an integral part in fulfilling the deep need for 321WH Housing (Bradford)15 JUNE 2011 Housing (Bradford) 322WH

[Mr David Ward] My concern is that the array of housing measures proposed by the Government will fail the test of delivering economic regeneration. I am sure that the Minister is the quantity and quality of housing that we need to well briefed and is well aware of the scale of the underpin the economic revival. Bradford’s ability to difficulties that we face. On current projections, Bradford’s meet its targets for affordable housing will inevitably be population will increase by 150,000 in the next 20 years. hit by the halving of national capital funding. The To meet the projected growth, we need at least 2,700 Government’s much lauded affordable rent model is homes each year. Currently, we are missing that target seen as a way forward in terms of replacing direct by a long way. Government funding. We are told that it will generate 150,000 new affordable homes. It may well offer a viable replacement for lost grant funding in many parts of the Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I commend the hon. country where market rents are high, but it is unlikely to Gentleman for bringing this debate to the House. As he be the answer in Bradford. knows, there are two proposals for big building developments in Micklethwaite and Menston, in my There is very little difference in Bradford between constituency, on beautiful, picturesque green fields. Does target rents and 80% of the market rent. I know that the he agree that building houses on the outskirts of the Minister is aware of that. Taking into account the fact district does nothing to alleviate the housing need in the that the areas with the highest turnovers also have the centre of Bradford and that at a time when the council lowest rents—of course, this measure will apply only to and all of us are trying to regenerate the centre of re-lets—Incommunities, the largest social housing provider Bradford, it is rather counter-productive to build houses in the district, which manages two thirds of the social in that part of the district, the residents of which will housing, has projected that using affordable rents alone shop in Leeds, regenerating Leeds even more, rather would generate for the whole of the Bradford district than Bradford? only an additional £120,000 a year. That would be almost but not quite enough to build two or three houses. Mr Ward: That is a massive issue. I am sure that the I am sure that the Minister will be keen to mention hon. Gentleman is well aware of the fact that, as people the new homes bonus—a key plank in the Government’s progress up the housing chain, they move out of the housing policy and one that in principle we have to inner-city areas. There is a long history of that happening support. The danger is that the policy simply gives more in Bradford. The simple answer is that the housing must to those who already have, where land values are higher. come from somewhere. We are missing the targets on Because of the distribution of funding being based on new houses: at the peak of the housing boom in 2008, council tax bands rather than the grant formula of the just over 2,000 houses were completed, but by last year Department for Communities and Local Government, the number had fallen to just 700. which is based on levels of deprivation, Bradford will Bradford’s low-wage economy and high unemployment again lose out. in the areas where housing demand is strongest mean My fear is that funding will be skewed to areas with that about half the homes required will have to be in the healthy housing markets at the expense of more deprived social rented sector. There, the gap in delivery is even grant-dependent local authorities such as Bradford. greater. Currently, fewer than 300 affordable homes Certain areas will gain additional homes because the are built each year—it is little wonder that there are affordable rents model will work, but on top of that, 20,000 people on the social housing waiting list. they will get the new homes bonus. I stress that the new Added to the high demand for new homes is the fact homes bonus and the affordable rent model, as the two that much of Bradford’s private sector accommodation key policy levers for increasing housing supply, will not is not fit for people to live in: 40% of Bradford’s private work sufficiently in areas such as Bradford and that sector accommodation currently fails the decent homes broader consideration of other policy mechanisms is standards; 10% is overcrowded; and across the district needed. It is not enough to say, “It cannot be expected more than 7,000 properties stand empty and, often, to work everywhere.” We need measures that will work derelict. in a place such as Bradford. How could a national housing policy contribute to It is not as if we are not trying as best we can with the the economic regeneration of the Bradford district? limited resources available. The council has been attempting Bradford has the youngest, fastest growing population to tackle poor-quality housing through equity share outside London. That could be a great opportunity for and home appreciation loans, which in the long term Bradford’s economy, but only if there is somewhere for would provide a small but self-sustaining pot of funding. those people to live. Meeting the demand for new However, the loss of the private sector renewal grant housing and stock improvement would provide much means that when the scheme comes to an end, there will needed jobs in the construction industry. The Home be no provision to help vulnerable people to fund Builders Federation has calculated that, for every £1 of improvements to their properties. public money spent on social housing, a further £3 of The role of the private sector in realising economic private sector investment is generated. Tackling poor-quality benefits is crucial, and I am sure that the Minister housing could change the image of Bradford. Our welcomes the good cross-sector work that is going housing is critical to the way in which we are perceived on through initiatives such as the Bradford Together as a district and to the confidence that investors require procurement partnership, a public-private sector partnership to put money into the district. In addition, improving that links construction contracts with the development basic housing conditions would remove many of the of skills and jobs, which will benefit local communities. factors that contribute to the poor health and low Over the last five years, Incommunities, the largest registered educational attainment that perpetuate cycles of deprivation. social landlord in the district, has built 400 homes, 323WH Housing (Bradford)15 JUNE 2011 Housing (Bradford) 324WH which has created jobs and provided 30 apprenticeship chairmanship. I am pleased to have the opportunity to places. There are successes—they do exist—but they have the opportunity to respond to my hon. Friend the have to be set against the context of complex and Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward). large-scale housing needs. My hon. Friend said that he was a councillor as a What am I asking for? I seek a commitment from the young man; those in the Chamber can see that it can Minister that he will speak in Bradford to those engaged only have been a year or two ago. He has a long history in the challenge of increasing the quantity and improving of serving his constituents with great diligence as a the quality of housing in the district; they know far member of the council and, since last year, as a Member more about the subject than I ever will. I would welcome of Parliament. He painted a clear if at times rather a response from the Minister about the possibility of bleak picture of Bradford, and of the extremes of the large surpluses generated in some parts of the poverty and riches there and the problems for his country through the affordable rents model being constituents in respect of education, health and, as he redistributed to areas such as Bradford, that gain so rightly said, housing. little from the scheme. In a recent case, a registered The Government certainly share my hon. Friend’s provider, Affinity Sutton, considered investing in affordable view that housing is an important component of building housing in Bradford, using a surplus generated in the a growing economy. That is why we are continuing to south, but it was unable to take that forward because invest in housing, through the Decent Homes programme, the Homes and Communities Agency was unwilling to to bring social housing up to an acceptable standard, allow it to reallocate surpluses between regions. and through a new-build programme. We are not simply The Minister may also like to say whether he believes rolling forward the programmes that we inherited, although that it would be sensible to take account of the difference we are continuing with them, but developing a new in additional revenues generated through the affordable programme using the affordable rent model. I hope that rents model, and to see whether they can be taken into I can give my hon. Friend some comfort that the account when calculating the allocation of grants through Government appreciate the problems that Bradford the HCA. Should not the remaining grants be targeted faces—and other places, too, but my hon. Friend highlights at those areas that have an acute need for affordable Bradford—at a time when, of necessity, the UK economy housing but are without the conditions required to is in a period of stress. benefit from the affordable rents premium? My hon. Friend asked a number of specific questions. I welcome the £100 million of additional funding to One is easier to answer than most. I think that he has bring empty homes back into use—I have already invited me to speak in Bradford. I am happy to speak in mentioned the 7,000 empty properties in our district—but Bradford—and, indeed, more or less wherever I am that amounts to only £338 per empty private home in invited—and to say something about the Government’s the country. When considering the scale of the problem policies. in places such as Bradford, I question the adequacy of the amount being made available. I ask that it be Mr Ward: I invited the Minister to come to Bradford reconsidered. My plea is that the Government should to listen. resist the temptation to micro-manage and centrally control how the money is used—avoiding that is localism Andrew Stunell: That was a very proper correction, at its best. We have creative and innovative people from a most diligent constituency MP. I would be even working in the housing sector in Bradford, and I would happier to go to Bradford to listen than to have to give welcome the Minister’s assurance that the Government any kind of response or speech. I am sure that we can will trust them to do what works best in our area. come to a way of operating that provides both of us The challenges that Bradford faces can at times appear with what we need. daunting, but they are not insurmountable. Housing My hon. Friend asked whether the affordable rent can be part of the solution to unlocking Bradford’s model might work to Bradford’s benefit. I shall say economic potential, but only if we get the policy levers something about that in a moment or two. He also put right. Conversely, if we are not able to tackle housing in a plea that the Government should not try to micro- effectively, Bradford’s problems will be compounded by manage how Bradford chooses to operate. I hope that the growing cost of homelessness, overcrowding and he will take some comfort from the actions of the squalid conditions. As these problems escalate, households’ Government so far; in particular, I draw his attention to basic needs will not be met, and the search for a job will the fact that we have de-ring-fenced—a new phrase—many take a back seat for those affected as they try to deal of the specific grants that were the bane of local government with their living conditions. when budgeting and making policy. That gives Bradford If the Government are to be judged a success, they far more flexibility to decide its priorities and how it need to understand places such as Bradford when should spend its money for the benefit of its citizens. considering legislation. To take the time to understand Further measures will assist, under the local government places such as Bradford and to respond accordingly resource review, details of which are likely to be published would be a much more critical test of the Government, next month. I can promise to visit Bradford, and I can and would be evidence of the extent to which they promise that there will be ever less micro-management, actually care about them. We await the outcome of that although we doubtless need to keep prudence thoroughly test with desperately keen interest. in mind. The Government are committed to increasing housing 4.54 pm supply across the country. We have an investment The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for programme designed to achieve that—in fact, we will Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): add 150,000 affordable and social homes during the life It is a pleasure, Mr Streeter, to serve under your of this Parliament. Included in that is bringing back 325WH Housing (Bradford)15 JUNE 2011 Housing (Bradford) 326WH

[Andrew Stunell] to reinforce that point, I would be happy to join him in meeting the Homes and Communities Agency . into use 5,000 extra empty homes, which I hope will be The affordable rent model allows the Government to some consolation to my hon. Friend. However, I cannot build more social and affordable homes than they would guarantee that they will all be in Bradford. Clearly, we have been able to do if they had kept in place the model are also looking at ways in which we can bring empty that they inherited. That model required more than homes back into use, stimulate action and promote £80,000 of subsidy per home in order to produce a good practice without necessarily requiring money to home for someone to occupy. The model that we have be spent either by us or by Bradford. We are investing in will require less than half that money per home. We are new homes and in getting empty homes back into stretching the resources so that we can build the largest action. number of affordable homes possible. There is nothing My hon. Friend mentioned the new homes bonus. in that model that prevents money being spent in Bradford Let me remind him that Bradford has benefited from to deliver the homes that my hon. Friend wants. the new homes bonus to the tune of £2.8 million this I have spent a long time dealing with some of those year, and that was without Bradford even trying. The points, but I hope that my hon. Friend gets some sense figures that were used in allocating that money were that the Government take seriously the kind of situation simply based on the number of additional homes that that he has so eloquently outlined. became available in Bradford during last year, before the council or anybody else knew that that was how we I also want to make it clear that among the other were measuring things. In future years, there is the things that are available is the green deal, which will opportunity for Bradford and its partners to work allow many homes, especially in the private sector but harder and more diligently to bring empty homes into not exclusively so, to have investment to bring them up use, for which the new homes bonus is payable, and also to a more acceptable standard and to make real inroads to bring new homes into use. into fuel poverty for my hon. Friend’s poorest constituents. That plus the energy company obligation, the money The growth that my hon. Friend has reported for that we are investing in empty homes and the other Bradford is part of a general growth across the whole work that we are doing to make more efficient use of country. More households are being formed each year. the social housing stock will, I hope, give my hon. They are being formed at their highest level since the Friend some comfort that we are making a good attempt 1940s, and yet the number of homes being built is at its to deal with the problems that he has identified. lowest level since the 1920s. The previous Government left the country in a position in which house building My hon. Friend said that the test for this Government was at its lowest peacetime level since 1924. We inherited would be whether we took seriously the towns, the cities social housing waiting lists at record levels. There are and the communities, such as his constituency in Bradford. currently 250,000 families living in overcrowded conditions. I say to him that we are taking all parts of the country The reality is that the number of social homes in the extremely seriously. That is reflected in the way in which country has gone down by a significant number. We we amended our grant-making formula at the start of have seen a reduction of more than 400,000 social this year to increase the amount of stress that we place homes available for rent since 1997. Of course that on poverty and the way in which money should be frustrates people. It frustrates my hon. Friend, and it distributed. It is why we introduced the transitional certainly frustrates his constituents who are left on the payments and why we have the regional growth fund. waiting list. We have a clear intention to address that Areas such as Bradford could bid for RGF funds which situation. could then be matched by European regional development funding. Let me pick up on my hon. Friend’s point about how our new policy of affordable rents might benefit Bradford. My understanding is that Bradford did not submit a I want to make it clear to him and to the partners who bid to the first round of regional growth fund applications. deliver housing in Bradford that there is no ring-fence I do not know whether it has bid for the second round, on funding from the conversion of re-lets to prevent but a route exists for investment to be made in Bradford, money being generated in Sutton by Affinity Sutton using the Government’s regional growth fund. and used to fund development and build in Bradford. It I look forward to my visit to Bradford and to listening is true that the affordable homes framework document to my hon. Friend’s constituents very carefully. I hope encourages partners to reinvest the capacity generated that I can reassure him that Bradford will be free to from affordable rent in the area from which it was deliver as it sees fit with the money that it has available. generated, but that is all that it does. It encourages such I look forward to working with him over the next few practice; it does not place a ban on doing something years to make absolutely sure that at the end of this else. My hon. Friend has it in mind that there was a Parliament he has the satisfaction of knowing that he scheme for Affinity Sutton to build 200 homes in Bradford, has improved Bradford with the help of the Government. but because it offered us a reason for not going ahead with it, a rule was passed that prevented it transferring the benefits of affordable rent elsewhere to use the 5.8 pm money to invest in Bradford. That is not the case. Sitting adjourned without Question put (Standing Order Perhaps we can discuss that separately. If he needs me No. 10(11)). 69WS Written Ministerial Statements15 JUNE 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 70WS

process in the Bill. The necessary amendments are Written Ministerial expected to be tabled before Committee stage in the House of Commons. Statements FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Wednesday 15 June 2011 Sudan

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague): In January this year, the people of south Sudan voted in a referendum in favour Abolition of Regional Development Agencies (Public of secession from the Republic of Sudan, as was their Bodies Bill) right under the terms of the comprehensive peace agreement (CPA) signed between the Government of the Republic of Sudan (GoS) and the Sudanese People’s Liberation The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Movement (SPLM) in 2005. The south plans to secede and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The reform of the delivery on 9 July. Since the referendum, progress against the of economic development in England was one of the remaining areas of the comprehensive peace agreement, key commitments in the coalition agreement, and the which will expire on 9 July, has been insufficient. There Government have given a public commitment that the eight are also a number of “post CPA issues” on which regional development agencies (excluding London which agreement needs to be reached urgently. The violence is being dealt with separately) will cease activities by witnessed in recent weeks in Abyei and southern Kordofan March 2012, pending final abolition, which is subject to regions is cause for great concern and risks prejudicing the passage of the Public Bodies Bill. all that has been achieved since the CPA was signed The closure programme is now well advanced, including in 2005. substantial work to scale back the expenditure of the On 19 May, Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA) RDAs, in line with the spending review settlement which forces attacked an UNMIS convoy escorting Sudanese provided funds for legal commitments and closure costs armed forces (SAF) elements of a joint integrated unit. only, representing about 18% of the amounts spent in In a disproportionate response, Sudanese armed forces the four years to March 2011. On the current timetable, took control of the area in and around Abyei town on by autumn 2011 there will be a skeleton level of staff 21 May. I immediately condemned this action. Since left in each RDA and RDA activity will reduce significantly, then, the lawlessness and violence has continued, with well before March 2012. approximately 100,000 civilians displaced internally. When While a number of RDA activities will cease completely, I met Foreign Minister Karti in London on 6 June, I certain functions undertaken by RDAs will transfer made clear that there must be a durable and peaceful elsewhere. Transfer of staff delivering the UK Trade & resolution to the status of Abyei and that Sudanese Investment foreign direct investment service to a new armed forces must withdraw from the region. I encouraged national contractor, PA Consulting, was completed at the Foreign Minister to accept offers of a UN-mandated the beginning of May, and the transfer of about 300 staff third-party peacekeeping force in Abyei so that Sudanese delivering European regional development fund projects, forces can withdraw quickly and those who have been and the rural development programme for England to displaced can return to their homes. I received assurances the Department for Communities and Local Government that the Government of Sudan intended to withdraw and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural their forces. Affairs respectively scheduled for 1 July. The plans for On 6 June, fighting broke out between SPLA and the transfer of certain RDA functions were set out in SAF in Kadugli, the state capital of south Kordofan. the White Paper “Local growth: realising every place’s Since then we have seen a worrying escalation of violence, potential” (Cm 7961), published on 28 October 2010. including aerial bombardments and reports of ethnically There has been significant engagement with stakeholders motivated assassinations and attacks on individuals. about the plans to cease RDA activities. Such actions are wholly unacceptable and I condemn them. As drafted, the Public Bodies Bill provides powers for The violence has already displaced some 60,000 civilians. Ministers to make changes to public bodies via secondary I am greatly concerned by the lack of access being legislation, following a consultation process and appropriate granted to humanitarian agencies and I call on all parliamentary procedure. As the closure (and transfer) forces in the state immediately to grant access for programme for RDAs is now well advanced, the humanitarian agencies to help the people most affected Government have concluded that it would not be by this violence. I remind the Government of Sudan of appropriate for the RDAs to be subject to this process. their responsibility to protect civilians. Reports of human Delaying this programme would not be beneficial for rights violations should also be fully investigated. the economy or the future of economic development These conflicts endanger the hard-won progress that and would risk jeopardising the more cost-effective has been achieved through the comprehensive peace delivery of economic development provision we are agreement. This week the AU high-level implementation putting in place. panel, chaired by former President Mbeki, is facilitating The Government have therefore decided to bring talks in Addis Ababa between the Governments of forward an amendment to the Bill, which will provide Sudan and south Sudan, aimed at urgently finding a for the abolition of the RDAs on the face of the Bill and peaceful solution to the situations in Abyei and south will therefore exempt RDA abolition from the order-making Kordofan. I discussed the prospects for these talks with 71WS Written Ministerial Statements15 JUNE 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 72WS

President Mbeki on 9 June and assured him of our International Development are working closely with support for his and his team’s efforts. Today, I again their UN colleagues on the humanitarian response. The urge all parties involved in those talks quickly to agree a UK funded the pre-positioning of supplies which allowed solution to the current crisis and to bring to an end the the UN promptly to start the humanitarian response in violence that has already affected so many lives. southern Kordofan. We are working hard with Security The UK special envoy for Sudan, Michael Ryder, Council partners to ensure the UN remains able to travelled to Addis Ababa to support the AU talks, protect civilians and provide humanitarian support. working closely with his US counterpart. The UK The UK has pledged £560 million over the next four ambassador in Khartoum and consul-general in Juba years to support humanitarian and development projects are speaking regularly to representatives of the Government in Sudan. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State of Sudan and south Sudan to seek a way out of this for International Development visited Sudan last month, crisis, as well as leading the co-ordination between our along with his counterparts from the US and Norway, international partners locally to press both parties to to meet with key partners in both north and south reach a solution. We have been public and loud in our Sudan and reiterate UK support. The UK remains condemnations. The British defence attaché based in committed to seeing two peaceful, stable and economically Khartoum has been supporting the military talks on viable states after 9 July and we will remain engaged this issue and representatives from the Department for until a lasting and sustainable peace is achieved. 781W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 782W Written Answers to Olympic Games 2012: Betting Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Questions Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has made of the potential effects on the London 2012 Olympic games of sports betting integrity breaches; Wednesday 15 June 2011 and what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of arrangements to prevent such breaches in relation to those games. [58549] Hugh Robertson: There are already established processes CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT and protocols to identify and manage any risks or threats to sports betting integrity in Great Britain. Our Departmental Responsibilities present assessment, based on the experience of previous Olympic events, is that there is a relatively low risk of a Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for major sports betting integrity issue occurring at the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what the (a) dates London 2012 games. The impact of any such incident and (b) subjects were of his (i) public engagements and could be significant so we do need to ensure that the meetings and (ii) meetings with ministerial colleagues UK is well prepared to respond to any concerns that in (A) January, (B) February, (C) March, (D) April and arise. Officials from the department are already working (E) May 2011. [58030] with the Gambling Commission, the International Olympic Committee (IOC), the London Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic games, licensed betting Mr Jeremy Hunt: The lists of my meetings with operators and the police to ensure effective preparations outside interest groups are published quarterly on the are made in advance of the 2012 games. I will be attending Department for Culture, Media and Sport’s website: the IOC’s meeting on betting integrity on 15 June http://www.transparency.culture.gov.uk/ having attended an initial meeting on this issue on Meetings for the quarter ended March 2011 will be 1 March 2011. published in due course. Olympic Games 2012: Security Meetings between Ministers, many of which are informal and ad hoc, are not routinely logged. Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Information on public engagements could be provided Olympics, Media and Sport what the (a) timetable and only at disproportionate cost. (b) schedule is of the forthcoming London 2012 Olympics safety and security testing exercise. [59318] Gambling James Brokenshire: I have been asked to reply. The Home Office along with the Government Olympic Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Executive, the London Organising Committee of the Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the answer of Olympic and Paralympic games, the Greater London 23 May 2011, Official Report, columns 349-50W, on Authority, Department for Transport and other partners gambling, what financial provision his Department has are putting in place a programme of exercises to test the made for research, education and treatment of problem effectiveness, resilience and decision-making capability gambling in (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13; and if he will of key games-time structures and processes. The programme estimate the likely level of funding for such activities is being finalised and an announcement will be made in from industry in each of those years. [58427] due course. John Penrose: Research, education and treatment Sports: Betting into problem gambling are funded by the industry rather than the Department for Culture, Media and Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Sport. Their funding target for 2011-12 is £7 million Olympics, Media and Sport what support his Department and the target for 2012-13 has not yet been set. Future provides to national sports governing bodies to assist funding targets are to be agreed in the autumn when the them in countering any threat to sporting integrity from 2011-12 strategy is presented. sports betting. [58294] Hugh Robertson: The sports’ governing bodies have Government Art Collection the primary responsibility for countering the threat to sporting integrity from sports betting. In line with the Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for recommendations of the independent report by Rick Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what holdings of Parry, the Sports Betting Group has been working on a the Government Act Collection are on display in number of measures to tackle sports betting integrity. locations outside London. [59824] This includes leading on the code of conduct and providing assistance to those sports governing bodies Mr Vaizey: Details of the Government Art Collection’s that require help in relation to the code. holdings outside London and within the UK will shortly The Gambling Commission’s Sports Betting Intelligence be deposited in the Libraries of both Houses. Until Unit (SBIU) works closely with sports governing bodies their recent closure, another 99 works of art were on to share information and intelligence about potentially display in various regional government offices. corrupt betting activity involving sport. 783W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 784W

I am a member of the President of the IOC’s working and the stakeholders concerned could be obtained only group on illegal and irregular betting and that group at disproportionate cost. We did carry out a specific expects to bring forward proposals by the end of the consultation on the provisional police settlement, and year. received representations from Police Authority Chairs and Treasurers, Chief Constables, MPs and the Association of Police Authorities. HOME DEPARTMENT Departmental Responsibilities Asylum: Human Rights Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for the the Home Department what strategic framework her Home Department how many applications made by Department has developed for the delivery of its core asylum seekers under Article 8 of Schedule 1 of the functions during the comprehensive spending review Human Rights Act 1998 were upheld by the courts in period. [59726] each year since 2000. [58467] Damian Green: The strategic direction and framework Damian Green [holding answer 9 June 2011]: The of the Home Office during the spending review period information is not available. The United Kingdom Border is set by the Home Office Business Plan which is published Agency’s Case Information Database does not record on the Home Office website. The delivery of the Home the specific reasons why an appeal is allowed and the Office Business Plan is supported internally through requested information could be obtained only at Agency, Group and Directorate business plans which disproportionate cost through the examination of a are reviewed on a regular basis. large number of individual case files. A sample of 401 allowed asylum appeal determinations Entry Clearances: Overseas Students from across the UK for the period October to December 2010 was recently analysed and cross referenced with Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for computer records. Of the 401, the Immigration Judge the Home Department if she will instruct the UK presiding over the case upheld the Article 8 claim made Border Agency to review the effects of recent changes by asylum seekers in 33 cases (8.2%). to the English language requirements for students Figures published in the Control of Immigration: under tier 4 of the points-based system. [59821] Quarterly statistical summary Q1 2011 show that there were 3,040 asylum appeals determined in the period Damian Green: The new, tighter requirements for October to December 2010 of which 805 (26%) were English language for tier 4 students are expected to help allowed. eliminate abuse of the system by ensuring that only genuine students who are able to complete the course Community Policing can come to the UK. The impact of the changes implemented on 21 April this year will be monitored Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for the and reviewed along with the other changes made following Home Department what steps she has taken in response the tier 4 review. to the report by Baroness Newlove on Clear Vision for Safe and Active Communities published by her Department. Motor Vehicles: Theft [58386] Ms Winterton: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: The Government are considering Home Department how many cars were stolen by the the recommendations made by Baroness Newlove and car keys first being stolen by robbery or burglary in my Department will continue to work closely with the each police force area in 2009-10; and how many recorded Department for Communities and Local Government offences there were of domestic burglaries and robberies (DCLG) in helping the Government to take forward the in which a vehicle was taken in each police force area in ideas and suggestions in her report that relate to crime 2009-10. [58555] reduction and community safety. Baroness Newlove will continue her work as Government champion for James Brokenshire: The existing police recorded crime active, safer communities within DCLG. offences contain the offence classifications of ’burglary Departmental Public Expenditure in a dwelling’ and ’robbery of business or personal property’ but the items stolen in these offences cannot be separately identified. Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department pursuant to the answer of 7 June The Home Office commenced from April 2007 a 2011, Official Report, column 240W, on departmental separate ad hoc data collection on the number of robberies public expenditure, which stakeholders have made and domestic burglaries in which a vehicle is taken, representations on the spending review settlement. as recorded by the police in England and Wales. This [59623] collection was made voluntary from April 2009 and only 20 of the 44 police forces in England and Wales Damian Green: This information is not held centrally. provided data in 2009-10, which are provided in the Representations would have been received across the table. Home Office and its agencies on particular elements of To reduce burden on the police, a decision was made the spending review settlement, and a full list of these to cease this collection from April 2011. 785W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 786W

Offences recorded by the police, by police force area in England and Mr Paice: The welfare of farmed rabbits is protected Wales, in 2009-101 by the general provisions in the Animal Welfare Act Domestic burglaries 2006 and the Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) Robberies in which a in which a vehicle is Regulations 2007, which have a specific schedule relating PFA vehicle is taken taken to rabbit welfare. Additionally, DEFRA has a welfare Avon and Somerset n/a n/a code for rabbits which provides good husbandry advice Bedfordshire 29 178 and which producers are required by law to have access British Transport n/a n/a to and be familiar with. Failure to comply with this Police code may be relied upon in prosecution cases. Cambridgeshire n/a n/a Cheshire n/a n/a Flooding: Hertfordshire Cleveland 6 133 Cumbria 0 20 Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Derbyshire n/a n/a Food and Rural Affairs what steps she is taking to Devon and Cornwall 5 71 alleviate the risk of flooding along the River Colne in Dorset 0 39 Hertfordshire. [59191] Durham n/a n/a Dyfed-Powys 0 7 Richard Benyon: The Environment Agency has calculated Essex n/a n/a that the costs of constructing flood walls adjacent to Gloucestershire n/a n/a the River Colne at Colney Heath would be greater than Greater Manchester n/a n/a the benefit of doing so. The Environment Agency is Gwent n/a n/a planning to meet St Albans district council and Hampshire 11 193 Hertfordshire county council to consider other options Hertfordshire 13 436 for managing flood risk in the area. Humberside n/a n/a Kent 23 298 Landfill Allowance Trading Scheme Lancashire n/a n/a Leicestershire 30 298 Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Lincolnshire n/a n/a Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she London, City of 0 0 has for the future of the Landfill Allowance Trading Merseyside n/a n/a Scheme beyond 2013. [58198] Metropolitan Police 936 3,430 Norfolk 5 21 Richard Benyon: The Waste Review published on North Wales 1 89 14 June stated that the Government are planning to end North Yorkshire 2 336 LATS after the 2012-13 scheme year. Northamptonshire n/a n/a Northumbria 15 321 Natural Gas: Exploration Nottinghamshire 42 530 South Wales n/a n/a Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for South Yorkshire n/a n/a Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions Staffordshire n/a n/a she has had with representatives of (a) Cuadrilla Suffolk 1 19 Resources and (b) the shale gas drilling industry on the Surrey 7 183 future of shale gas exploration in the UK following the Sussex n/a n/a recent earth tremors in the Blackpool area. [59253] Thames Valley n/a n/a Warwickshire n/a n/a Richard Benyon: Neither I nor the Secretary of State West Mercia n/a n/a for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my right West Midlands n/a n/a hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), West Yorkshire 103 2,152 has had any discussions with representatives of Cuadrilla Wiltshire n/a n/a Resources or the shale gas drilling industry on the Total 1,229 8,754 future of shale gas exploration following the recent n/a = No data available minor seismic activity. However, Environment Officers 1 Data were received from 20 of the 44 police forces in England and from the Environment Agency have had informal Wales after this specific data collection was made voluntary by the discussions with Cuadrilla regarding seismic activity Home Office as from April 2009. during recent site visits.

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Animal Welfare: Rabbits WOMEN AND EQUALITIES

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Equalities Act 2010 for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent steps her Department has taken to improve the welfare Lyn Brown: To ask the Minister for Women and of factory-farmed rabbits; and if she will make a Equalities what plans she has to implement section 78 statement. [59567] of the Equalities Act 2010. [58729] 787W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 788W

Mrs May: The Government are committed to working Communities and Local Government Area Based Grant: Cohesion with business to develop a voluntary approach to gender Local authority 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 pay reporting in the private and voluntary sector. While Bolsover District 26,471 48,529 57,353 we work with business and others to ensure this approach Council is successful, we will not commence, amend or repeal Bolton Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 section 78 of the Equality Act 2010. Borough Council Pay: Equal Opportunities Boston Borough 116,471 213,529 252,353 Council Bournemouth Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Lyn Brown: To ask the Minister for Women and Council Equalities what assessment she has made of the effects City of Bradford 72,353 132,647 156,765 of higher levels of private sector employment on the Metropolitan District gender pay gap. [58730] Council Breckland District 95,294 174,706 206,471 Mrs May: The causes of the pay gap are varied and Council include work histories, skills levels, the industries and Burnley Borough 116,471 213,529 252,353 occupations in which women and men work, and labour Council market conditions. The complex interaction between Bury Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 these factors means it is not possible to accurately Borough Council forecast changes to the pay gap. Calderdale 72,353 132,647 156,765 Metropolitan Borough Council Carlisle City Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Cherwell District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Community Relations: Finance Cheshire East UA 0 48,529 57,353 Cheshire West and 0 48,529 57,353 Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Chester UA Communities and Local Government how much funding Chester-le-Street 26,471 0 0 his Department provided to each local authority for Corby Borough Council 95,294 174,706 206,471 community cohesion projects in (a) 2011-12 and (b) Craven District Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 each of the last three financial years. [59346] Crawley Borough 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Andrew Stunell: Between 2008-09 and 2010-11 funding Croydon London 26,471 48,529 57,353 for cohesion projects was provided to local authorities Borough via unringfenced Area Based Grant In 2011-12, general Crewe and Nantwich 26,471 . 0 26,471 unringfenced funding of £190.540 million was allocated Dartford Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 to local authorities in England through Local Services Council Support Grant with the freedom to use it to meet Derwentside 49,412 0 0 locally identified priorities, including community cohesion. Doncaster Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 The following table shows funding allocation for Borough Council cohesion projects for each local authority from 2008-09 Dover District Council 49,412 90,588 107,059 to 2010-11. Dudley Metropolitan 26,471 48,529 57,353 Borough Council Communities and Local Government Area Based Grant: Cohesion Durham County UA 0 320,293 378,529 Local authority 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Ealing London Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Amber Valley Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Easington 49,412 0 0 Council East Staffordshire 49,412 90,588 107,059 Arun District Council 49,412 90,588 107,059 Borough Council Ashfield District 72,353 132,647 156,765 Ellesmere Port and 26,471 0 0 Council Neston Ashford Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Erewash Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Council Barking and Dagenham 116,471 213,529 252,353 London Borough Fenland District 116,471 213,529 252,353 Council Barnsley Metropolitan 72,353 132,647 156,765 Borough Council Gateshead Metropolitan 26,471 48,529 57,353 Borough Council Basildon District 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Gosport Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Bassetlaw District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Council Gravesham Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Berwick-upon-Tweed 26,471 0 0 Council Bexley London 26,471 48,529 57,353 Great Yarmouth 116,471 213,529 252,353 Borough Borough Council Blackburn with Darwen 72,353 132,647 156,765 Greenwich London 26,471 48,529 57,353 Borough Council Borough Blackpool Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Halton Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Council 789W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 790W

Communities and Local Government Area Based Grant: Cohesion Communities and Local Government Area Based Grant: Cohesion Local authority 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Local authority 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11

Hammersmith and 26,471 48,529 57,353 Oldham Metropolitan 116,471 213,529 252,353 Fulham London Borough Council Borough Oswestry 26,471 0 0 Harlow District Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Pendle Borough Council 116,471 213,529 252,353 Hartlepool Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Peterborough City 72,353 132,647 156,765 Hastings Borough 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Council Plymouth City Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Havant Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Portsmouth City 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Council Havering London 49,412 90,588 107,059 Redbridge London 49,412 90,588 107,059 Borough Borough County of 26,471 48,529 57,353 Redcar and Cleveland 49,412 90,588 107,059 Herefordshire District Borough Council Council Redditch Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Hertsmere Borough 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Council Rochdale Metropolitan 72,353 132,647 156,765 Hillingdon London 49,412 90,588 107,059 Borough Council Borough Rossendale Borough 95,294 174,706 206,471 Hounslow London 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Borough Rotherham 95,294 174,706 206,471 Huntingdonshire 26,471 48,529 57,353 Metropolitan Borough District Council Council Hyndburn Borough 95,294 174,706 206,471 Rushmoor Borough 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Council Kings Lynn and West 72,353 132,647 156,765 Salford Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 Norfolk Borough District Council Council Sandwell Metropolitan 26,471 48,529 57,353 Kingston Upon Hull 72,353 132,647 156,765 Borough Council City Council Scarborough Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Kingston upon Thames 000Council Royal Borough Sedgefield 49,412 0 0 Kirklees Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 Sedgemoor District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Borough Council Council Lancaster City Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Selby District Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Lincoln City Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Sheffield City Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Liverpool City Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Shropshire County UA 26,471 97,058 114,706 Luton Borough Council 26,471 48,529 57,353 Slough Borough 49,412 90,588 107,059 Mansfield District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Council South Holland District 95,294 174,706 206,471 Medway Borough 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Council South Kesteven District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Mendip District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Council South Somerset District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Middlesbrough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Borough Southampton City 26,471 48,529 57,353 Newcastle upon Tyne 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Metropolitan District Southend-on-Sea 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Borough Council Newcastle-under-Lyme 26,471 48,529 57,353 Stockton-on-Tees 26,471 48,529 57,353 Borough Council Borough Council Newham London 72,353 132,647 156,765 Stoke-on-Trent City 95,294 174,706 206,471 Borough Council North East Lincolnshire 49,412 90,588 107,059 Sunderland City 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Council North Lincolnshire 26,471 48,529 57,353 Swale Borough Council 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Tameside Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 North Tyneside 26,471 48,529 57,353 Borough Council Metropolitan Borough Council Tamworth Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Northampton Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Telford and Wrekin 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Northumberland 0 139,117 164,412 County UA Tendring District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Nottingham City 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Thanet District Council 72,353 132,647 156,765 Nuneaton and 49,412 90,588 107,059 Thurrock Council 116,471 213,529 252,353 Bedworth Borough Torbay Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Council 791W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 792W

Communities and Local Government Area Based Grant: Cohesion allocated to projects in the North East in the latest Local authority 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 period for which figures are available. [59523] Tower Hamlets London 49,412 90,588 107,059 Borough Robert Neill: The total allocation to the north-east as Wakefield Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 a proportion of the total European Regional Development District Council Fund for the England Competitiveness strand is 13%. Walsall Metropolitan 26,471 48,529 57,353 The total allocation to the north-east as a proportion Borough Council of the European Regional Development Fund Waltham Forest 26,471 48,529 57,353 Competitiveness and Convergence as a whole is 11%. London Borough Wansbeck. 49,412 0 0 Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Watford Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Communities and Local Government what proportion Council of the European Regional Development Fund allocated Waveney District 26,471 48,529 57,353 to the North East of England (a) has been allocated Council and (b) he expects to have been allocated by the end of Weymouth and 26,471 48,529 57,353 Portland Borough the current funding round. [59527] Council Wigan Metropolitan 49,412 90,588 107,059 Robert Neill: 65% of the North East European Regional Borough Council Development Fund allocation has been allocated to Wiltshire County UA 26,471 48,529 57,353 date. Wirral Metropolitan 26,471 48,529 57,353 It is expected that 100% of the European Regional Borough Council Development Fund allocated to the North East will be Woking Borough 49,412 90,588 107,059 allocated by the end of the current funding period in Council 2013. Worthing Borough 26,471 48,529 57,353 Council Fire Services Wycombe District 49,412 90,588 107,059 Council Wyre Forest District 26,471 48,529 57,353 Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Council Communities and Local Government (1) how many of Total 6,000,040 10,999,960 13,000,016 the principal fire officers of the Cambridgeshire fire and rescue service have their main residence in Derelict Land: Planning Permission Cambridgeshire; [59811] (2) how much was spent on new equipment for Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for Manea fire station under each category of cost in each Communities and Local Government what powers of the last three years; [59837] Natural England has to impose planning conditions (3) on what date a firefighter was last recruited to on brownfield sites; and if he will make a statement. Manea fire station; [59838] [59348] (4) how much Cambridgeshire fire and rescue service has spent on legal fees for each type of work Robert Neill: Natural England has no powers to undertaken in each of the last three years; and which impose conditions on planning consents as it does not legal firms were employed in each such case; [59839] determine planning applications. It does, however, have an important advisory role within the planning system (5) how many compromise agreements have been and is a statutory consultee for development plans, signed by Cambridgeshire fire and rescue service in environmental impact assessments, strategic environmental each of the last three years; what the monetary value assessment and planning applications that are likely to was of each such agreement; and how many included a impact upon its particular interests. In this capacity it confidentiality clause; [59840] may, where appropriate, seek to mitigate impacts on, or (6) for how many hours Manea fire station was to enhance, the natural environment through the use of unable to respond to calls or off the run due to a lack planning conditions. of (a) personnel and (b) skills in the last 12 months for which figures are available. [59841] EU Grants and Loans: North East Robert Neill: This information is not held centrally. Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much funding Local Authority Business Growth Incentives Scheme from the European regional development fund was allocated to projects in the North East in the latest Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for period for which figures are available. [59522] Communities and Local Government what assessment his Department has made of the effectiveness of the Robert Neill: The north-east received £318 million of Local Authority Business Growth Incentive scheme. the European regional development fund under the [59320] competitiveness strand. Robert Neill: The Government agrees with the Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for conclusions of Sir Michael Lyons that the Local Authority Communities and Local Government what proportion Business Growth Incentive scheme was complex, of the European Regional Development Fund was unpredictable and not transparent. Instead, the Local 793W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 794W

Government Resource Review is considering proposals risen by 23% (in constant price terms) over the same to allow local authorities to keep at least a proportion period (ONS, Ouput in the construction Industry, Q1 of their business rates. Such an approach could help set 2011,13 May 2011). free many local councils from dependency on central Government funding and provide incentives, through Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for the business rates system, for them to promote economic Communities and Local Government what steps his growth. Department is taking to ensure that Neighbourhood The Local Authority Business Growth Incentive scheme Planning Front Runners have access to adequate ran for three years (2005-06 -2007-08), and then there professional expertise in the property sector. [59341] was a break for a year, before it was established for a further two year period (2009-10 – 2010-11), although Robert Neill: The Department has made available the second year payments were cancelled. In between grants of £20,000 to each neighbourhood planning the two schemes, the previous administration ran two front runner. These grants may be spent in any way that consultations (October 2007 and August 2008) on how the recipient council considers appropriate in connection it might be reformed. with delivering its project and this may include procuring support from the property profession. In addition, the Non-domestic Rates Department will shortly award grants totalling £3.2 million to four organisations to enable them to provide advice, guidance and other support to community groups and Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for individuals wishing to engage with the planning system. Communities and Local Government what plans he That may include advice, guidance and other support has to introduce a Business Increase Bonus scheme. derived from the property sector. [59319]

Robert Neill: The White Paper—“Local growth: realising Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for every place’s potential”—confirmed that the Government Communities and Local Government what guidance he would consider how to deliver better growth incentives plans to provide to communities wishing to develop in the business rates system, and sought views on the neighbourhood plans. [59407] merits of a broader business rates retention model. The Local Government Resource Review is now Robert Neill: We are working with the neighbourhood considering options to allow local authorities to keep at planning front runners and representative organisations least a proportion of their business rates and provide on guidance that will help communities and local authorities direct financial incentives for local authorities to promote with neighbourhood planning. economic growth. It will deliver proposals by July 2011. Regional Growth Fund Planning Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many successful Communities and Local Government what assessment regional growth fund bids are eligible for match funding he has made of the potential effect on the (a) construction from the European regional development fund in the and (b) development industry of his policies on localism. most recently announced funding round. [59521] [58344] Robert Neill: One successful bid under round one of Andrew Stunell: There has been a sustained shortfall the regional growth fund indicated in the application in housing development; the previous government’s that it had also bid for European regional development model of top-down housing targets that imposed fund support. Other successful regional growth fund development on local authorities and local communities bids may also have been eligible for ERDF but did not did not deliver the housing this country needs. indicate in the bid that they were also applying for This Government are committed to seeing a major ERDF support. upswing in housing to meet Britain’s housing need and seeing more homes that people want in the places that Social Rented Housing: Housing Occupancy people want them. We have put in place a package of reforms to get the industry moving again, including Mrs Mensch: To ask the Secretary of State for localist policies—such as transferring power from central Communities and Local Government what estimate he Government to councils and local people, and replacing has made of the number of social homes which are top down targets with fiscal incentives for local authorities under-occupied in (a) each local authority area, (b) to promote development—and other actions such as each region and (c) England. [59354] reductions in regulation on house-builders, and assistance to first time buyers. Grant Shapps: It is estimated that 423,000 households By promoting housing growth, these policies will were under-occupying in the social rented sector in have a positive impact upon the construction and England in 2009-10. This estimate is a three year average development industry. based on data from the Survey of English Housing I would note that house building starts in England (2007-08) and the English Housing Survey (2008-09 are up 22% in 2010-11, compared to 2009-10 (DCLG, and 2009-10). Households are said to be under-occupying House building: March Quarter 2011 England, 19 May if they have at least two bedrooms more than they need 2011) and the value of new housing construction has as measured by the bedroom standard. 795W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 796W

Regional estimates for 2009-10 are due to be published training mission—developed a recruitment campaign on 5 July 2011 in the English Housing Survey Household intended to address this. The situation with regard to Report 2009-10. the police is similar, but with Tajiks statistically over- It is not possible to provide estimates at local authority represented. level as sample sizes are too small. Afghan National Army, March 2011 Percentage Travellers: Caravan Sites Afghan National Ethnicity Afghanistan Army Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities Pashtun 42 42 and Local Government (1) with reference to his Tajik 27 34 Department’s consultation on planning for Traveller sites, what plans he has to allow local authorities to Hazara 9 12 establish pitch and plot allocation targets lower than Uzbek 9 8 Other 13 5 those in local and regional plans; [59426] (2) with reference to his Department’s consultation on planning for Traveller sites, whether a risk assessment Afghan National Police, May 2011 has been undertaken of the legal implications for local Percentage authorities of introducing new pitch and plot allocation Afghan National targets lower than those in local and regional plans. Ethnicity Afghanistan Army [59427] Pashtun 42 43 Robert Neill: The Government carried out an impact Tajik 27 42 assessment to look at the likely costs and benefits of the Hazara 9 5 policy, including those on local authorities. The Government Uzbek 9 5 does not anticipate that its new policy will result in any Other 13 5 new burdens on local authorities. The Government’s proposed policy asks local authorities to use a robust evidence base of local need to support Brazil: Mining their planning approach for traveller sites. The targets local authorities set will be tested independently on a Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State case-by-case basis through consultation and examination for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make in public of local plans. Those local authorities who representations to the Brazilian government for the (a) have targets imposed on them by regional plans may, removal of illegal miners from the Yanomami territory therefore, reduce their target if they have a robust and (b) prohibition of any form of mining on evidence base to support this approach. Yanomami land. [58904] The Localism Bill also proposes to abolish regional strategies and their associated top-down targets. Mr Jeremy Browne: We regularly discuss human rights issues, including indigenous rights, with the Brazilian Government. I did so during my visit to Brazil last month. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Under the Brazilian constitution indigenous people Afghanistan: Police have clear rights, including the protection of their cultural heritage and rights to occupy and use their traditional lands. The Brazilian Government’s National Foundation Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for for Indians (FUNAI) monitors and supports indigenous Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many people people’s interests, but recognises that further work needs of (a) Pashtun, (b) Tajik, (c) Hazaras and (d) Uzbek to be done to protect indigenous rights and ensure ethnicity there are in the Afghanistan National Security effective implementation of these legal frameworks. We Force; what the ethnic composition is of (i) that force will continue to support the Brazilian Government’s and (ii) the national population; and what steps he is own efforts in this area, where appropriate. taking to promote a nationally-representative Afghanistan National Security Force. [59715] Children: Human Rights Alistair Burt: The following two tables illustrate the ethnic composition of the Afghan National Army and the Afghan National Police, alongside the approximate Mark Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign ethnic composition of Afghanistan’s population. and Commonwealth Affairs how many representations As I outlined in my response to the right hon. Member his Department has received on the application of human for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander) on rights legislation to British children in EU member 7 June 2011, Official Report, column 197W, the ethnic states (a) between January 2005 and April 2010 and composition of the Afghan National Security Forces is (b) since May 2010. [59154] broadly consistent with the Afghan population demographic, including in terms of Pashtun personnel. Mr Jeremy Browne: We do not hold the information However, southern Pashtuns are under-represented in you request in this format as we do not keep a central the army and the Afghan Ministry of Defence has—with record. The information would be available only at a the support of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation disproportionate cost. 797W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 798W

Crown Relocations Generated £800 million of savings by renegotiating contracts with our biggest suppliers Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Saved over £850 million by new controls on hiring consultants and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of These savings will enable departments to protect front 24 May 2011, Official Report, column 584W, on Crown line service delivery and protect public sector jobs. Relocations, how many other bids there were for the contract awarded to Crown Relocations his Voluntary Sector Department received. [58760] 10. Rehman Chishti: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Lidington: The contract procurement was undertaken Office what steps he is taking to reduce the burden of in 2004 following the legislated procurement process at regulation on the voluntary sector. [59580] that time. Five companies were invited to tender. Mr Hurd: We are determined to reduce the red tape Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign that prevents people from acting to improve their and Commonwealth Affairs further to the answer of communities. 24 May 2011, Official Report, column 584W, on Crown I invited Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts to investigate Relocations, on what date the contract with Crown the question ‘what stops us all giving more time Relocations (a) commenced and (b) expires; how and money to charities, voluntary organisations and many other companies bid for the contract; and how social enterprises’. Last month his Taskforce made many items have been recorded as lost in transit by recommendations such as making it easier to be a Crown Relocations since the commencement of the volunteer driver. We are now working across Government contract. [59243] to implement as many of the recommendations as possible. Mr Lidington: The contract with Crown Relocations The Government have also set up a broader Red Tape commenced on 30 April 2004. At that time, five companies Challenge. were invited to tender. An extension is in the process of being signed which will take the contract up to 30 April 12. Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Minister for the 2012. This will allow time for the current reprocurement Cabinet Office what steps he is taking to reduce the activity to be completed. burden of regulation on the voluntary sector. [59582] The Foreign and Commonwealth Office does not Mr Hurd: We are determined to reduce the red tape hold information on items lost in transit. The information that prevents people from acting to improve their requested could be provided only at disproportionate communities. cost. I invited Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts to investigate Serco the question ‘what stops us all giving more time and money to charities, voluntary organisations and Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign social enterprises’. Last month his Taskforce made and Commonwealth Affairs how many contracts his recommendations such as making it easier to be a Department holds with SERCO; and what the (a) volunteer driver. We are now working across Government purpose and (b) monetary value of each such contract to implement as many of the recommendations as possible. is. [58665] The Government have also set up a broader Red Tape Challenge. Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has no contracts with SERCO within the UK. Charities: Mental Health As budgets in the FCO are devolved to over 260 Posts overseas and details of their contracts are not held Dan Jarvis: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office centrally, the information requested could be provided if he will estimate the proportion of income of charities only at disproportionate cost. in England that is received by mental health charities. [59629]

Mr Hurd: Data from the Civil Society Almanac, CABINET OFFICE produced by the National Council for Voluntary Efficiency Savings Organisations (NCVO), shows that UK charities received a total of £35.5 billion in income in 2007-08. Of this income, £3.4 billion was received by charities working 9. Jake Berry: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet in the health sector in the UK. Figures are not available Office what estimate he has made of the level of efficiency from this source to determine the proportion of income savings achieved in 2011 to date. [59579] for charities in England that is received by mental health charities. Mr Maude: The controls we put in place in May last year have yielded savings of well over £3 billion in the Company Accounts short financial year that ended in March. For example, we have: Caroline Nokes: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Reduced spend on marketing and advertising by over 80% Office how many small businesses which would not Saved £400 million through stopping low value projects otherwise produce quarterly accounts were asked to do Reduced our on-going property costs by over £90 million so by the Office for National Statistics in the last 799W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 800W

12 months; and what estimate he has made of the cost number (a) 3000014029, (b) 3000014121, (c) 3000014389 to those small businesses of preparing such reports. and (d) 3000014417 for January 2011 published on the [59983] Transparency website, was spent; [59706] (2) under what budget headings and for what purposes Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the the expenditure associated with transaction number responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have (a) 3000014491, (b) 3000014634, (c) 3000014670, asked the authority to reply. (d) 3000014777 and (e) 3000014951 for February 2011 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: published on the Transparency website, was spent; As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I [59707] have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question (3) under what budget headings and for what purposes concerning how many small businesses which would not otherwise the expenditure associated with transaction number produce quarterly accounts were asked to do so by the Office for (a) 3000015192, (b) 3000015588, (c) 3000015699 and National Statistics in the last 12 months; and what estimate has (d) 3000015859 for March 2011 published on the been made of the cost to those small businesses of preparing such reports (59983). Transparency website was spent; [59708] ONS does not require businesses to produce quarterly accounts. (4) how much was spent under each cost category Our sample surveys require businesses to provide estimates of in respect of transaction numbers (a) 3000013467, economic transactions. These do not require the production of (b) 3000013581, (c) 300013749, (d) 3000013791 and quarterly accounts. (e) 3000013864 in December 2010 posted on the Transparency website and attributable to the Cabinet Departmental Billing Office Central Department; [59755] (5) how much was spent under each cost category Gordon Banks: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet in respect of transaction numbers (a) 3000012982, Office (1) how many invoices his Department received (b) 3000013043, (c) 300013058, (d) 3000013193, in respect of goods or services supplied by tier 1 (e) 3000013225, (f) 3000013477 and (g) 3000013398 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and in November 2010 posted on the Transparency website how many of those invoices were not paid within the and attributable to the Cabinet Office Central Department. period of time specified in the Government’s Fair [59756] Payment guidance; [55873] Mr Maude [holding answer 14 June 2011]: Details of (2) how many invoices the Prime Minister’s Office how much was spent under each cost category and what received in respect of goods or services supplied by tier the budget headings were can be found under the ‘expense 1 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and type’ column of the CSV files for each month which can how many of those invoices were not paid within the be found at: period of time specified in the Government’s Fair http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/cabinet- Payment guidance. [55860] office-spend-data Mr Maude: For these purposes the Prime Minister’s Office forms an integral part of the Cabinet Office. ATTORNEY-GENERAL The information requested for Cabinet Office regarding Trade Unions the number of invoices received in respect of goods and services supplied for tier 1 suppliers between the time Mr Raab: To ask the Attorney-General pursuant periods specified is not readily available and could be to the answer of 23 May 2011, Official Report, obtained only at disproportionate cost. columns 376-7W, on trade unions, when he expects Information is available on the number of invoices information to become available on (a) the number of received between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011, and the staff of the Crown Prosecution Service entitled to work number not paid within the period of time as specified (i) full-time as trade union representatives and (ii) part-time in line with Government policy. on trade union activities, (b) the number of such staff The following table shows the breakdown of payments paid more than £25,900 annually and (c) the cost to the for the period requested public purse of employing such staff on such duties in 2010-11. [59779] Number Percentage The Solicitor-General: Data for the financial year Total payments made 17,756 — April 2010-11 is currently being collected and the overall Payments made within 30 days 17,660 99.46 figures should be finalised within the next four weeks. I Payments made within 10 days 16,998 95.73 will write to my hon. Friend with the updated figures Payments made within 5 days 13,761 77.50 once they are available. The position for 2010-11 is however unlikely to have changed significantly from The Cabinet Office does not have any contracts to that of the previous year. which the Government’s Fair Payment Guidance refers. Therefore no invoices have been received for these goods and services. TREASURY Arch Cru Departmental Public Expenditure Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Chancellor of the Jon Trickett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Exchequer if he will consider the merits of initiating an Office (1) under what budget headings and for what investigation into the Financial Services Authority’s purposes the expenditure associated with transaction role in relation to Arch Cru funds. [59611] 801W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 802W

Mr Hoban: The Financial Services Authority is currently more specialist help and advice where appropriate. For investigating the issues surrounding the suspension and example, those in mortgage arrears who may risk losing winding up of the Arch Cru funds. It would not be their home may be directed to crisis debt advice. appropriate for the Government to comment on an The Money Advice Service is aimed at consumers ongoing investigation by the independent regulator. rather than businesses. Business Link is the support service in England which provides businesses with impartial Banks: Pay information and advice, including on finances, to start and develop their business. It is available online and by Chris Leslie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer telephone. The devolved Administrations have equivalent what meetings he has had with his EU counterparts to support services to Business Link, which in some cases, discuss disclosure by banks of the number of employees also includes additional face to face support. Under the paid salary and bonuses of more than £1 million per aegis of the British Bankers’ Association Business Finance year. [59379] Taskforce, the major UK banks have also committed to creating a website for businesses in which they can get Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have impartial information about how to secure finance and meetings with a wide variety of organisations in the the best options for their business. They are also developing public and private sectors as part of the process of a business mentoring scheme which will be rolled out in policy development and delivery. As was the case, with phases across the country this year. previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of all such meetings. Financial Markets Construction Industry Scheme Stephen Phillips: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Umunna: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to monitor the international how many people were employed in the HM Revenue derivatives market. [59414] and Customs Construction Industry scheme enforcement Mr Hoban: The UK Government are actively supporting unit in each year from 2005 to 2010. [52903] the efforts to reduce systemic risk in derivatives through Mr Gauke: Details of the number of staff employed the measures announced in the European Markets in HM Revenue and Customs Construction Industry Infrastructure Regulation. This includes supporting the Teams are only held from April 2008. obligation to require all derivative transactions to be reported to trade repositories. Full-time equivalent Within the UK the Bank of England’s interim Financial Policy Committee also has a monitoring function as 2008-09 526.19 part of its systemic remit to protect and enhance the 2009-10 474.67 UK financial system. In May 2010 the members of the Construction Industry Teams were integrated into mainstream teams in local Fuels: Prices compliance where they continue to carry out work on CIS enforcement. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effects of the Disadvantaged: Financial Services Energy Company Obligation on domestic fuel bills. [58193] Mr Buckland: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what plans he has for future provision of money Gregory Barker: I have been asked to reply. advice in respect of (a) coping with unemployment and An assessment of this issue will be included in the (b) managing the transition back into work using benefits; impact assessment which will be published in the autumn, [59661] alongside our consultation on the detailed design of the (2) what plans he has for future provision of money ECO policy. advice for (a) consumers and (b) small businesses; The effect ECO has on fuel bills will ultimately depend [59663] on the outcomes we require energy companies to deliver (3) what plans he has for future provision of money and how they choose to absorb or pass on costs. advice in respect of (a) managing mortgage arrears We expect competitive pressure between the energy and (b) preventing repossessions. [59662] companies to help keep costs down. Mr Hoban: The Money Advice Service is an independent body, established in the Financial Services Act 2010 to Income Tax promote understanding of the financial system and raise levels of financial capability across the UK. It Dr Huppert: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer offers free and impartial financial information and advice (1) what the amount was of taxable income comprised to members of the public nationally online, by telephone, of personal earnings above £150,000 in each month of and face-to-face. each of the last 10 tax years; [59626] Its services cover the full spectrum of financial issues (2) how much was collected in income tax on and include help and advice at key life stages, for earnings above £150,000 (a) through pay as you earn, example, for those starting work or facing redundancy. (b) through self-assessment and (c) overall in each The Money Advice Service also directs individuals to month in each of the last 10 tax years. [59627] 803W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 804W

Mr Gauke: The estimated amount of total income contracting-out from the state second pension had not excluding savings and dividends above £150,000, after been available are shown in the following table. deductions and allowances, and the estimated income Estimates for previous years are not available. tax liability on this income, split between taxpayers on self assessment and pay as you earn only, is shown in £ million the following table. The third column shows estimated Employee Employer total tax paid through SA and PAYE for taxpayers who contributions contributions Total are on SA and the fourth column shows estimated tax paid through PAYE for taxpayers who are on PAYE 2000-01 3,100 6,000 9,100 only. 2001-02 3,200 6,200 9,400 2002-03 3,200 7,700 10,900 £ million 2003-04 3,100 7,500 10,600 Income tax Income tax 2004-05 2,800 6,800 9,600 Income from from 2005-06 2,800 6,600 9,400 (excluding taxpayers on taxpayers on 2006-07 2,700 6,300 9,000 savings and self pay as you dividends)1 assessment earn only 2007-08 2,700 6,900 9,600 2008-09 2,800 7,100 9,900 2001-02 20,100 7,800 240 2009-10 2,700 6,900 9,600 2002-03 18,700 7,300 200 2003-04 18,900 7,500 60 Non-domestic Rates: Appeals 2004-05 24.400 9,500 220 2005-06 31,900 12,600 170 2006-07 38,800 15,200 270 Mrs Mensch: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2007-08 46,600 18,100 520 (1) how many appeals have been received by the Valuation Projected estimates Office Agency against national non-domestic rates based on 2007-08 valuations (a) in each of the last five years for which data: figures are available and (b) in 2011-12 to date; [59334] 2008-091 48,100 18,700 530 (2) how many appeals against national non-domestic 2009-101 48,500 18,800 550 rate valuations were received by the Valuation Office 2010-11 46,600 22,600 660 Agency in relation to 2010 revaluations of non- 1 After deductions and allowances (including allowances as income domestic property in each local authority area in (a) tax reductions, e.g. married couples allowance). each of the last three years and (b) 2011-12 to date; The estimates for 2000-01 to 2007-08 are based on the [59360] Survey of personal incomes (SPI). For 2008-09 onwards (3) how many appeals against national non-domestic tax return data is not available for analysis. Estimates in rate valuations were received by the Valuation Office the table are based on the 2007-08 SPI using economic Agency (a) in relation to the 2005 rating and (b) in assumptions consistent with the OBR’s March 2011 each of the last three years for which figures are economic and fiscal outlook, available. [59361] The information is not available on a monthly basis. Mr Gauke: The following table details the number of Members: Correspondence proposals (appeals) to alter the rating list received by the Valuation Office Agency in relation to the 2000, Sir Alan Beith: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2005 and 2010 England and Wales rating lists, for each when the Financial Secretary to the Treasury plans to of the previous five financial years. respond to the letters of 1 March 2011 and 21 April Proposals received with respect to compiled rating lists 2011 from the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed Financial on the Financial Services Compensation Scheme and year 20001 20052 20103 Total FSA fees. [59534] 2006-07 1,950 134,520 0 136,470 Mr Hoban: I wrote to all right hon. and hon. Members 2007-08 0 104,430 0 104,430 on 1 March 2011 to set out the Government’s overall 2008-09 0 133,370 0 133,370 position on the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. 2009-10 0 230,130 0 230,130 This letter was in response to any outstanding 2010-11 0 50,840 230,090 280,930 correspondence that hon. Members may have raised. 2011-124 0 1,080 12,540 13,620 1 Proposals to amend the 2.000 list could potentially be made up to six National Insurance Contributions months after the list was closed on 1 April 2006. 2 Similarly proposals to amend the 2005 list can be potentially made until 1 October 2011. Rachel Reeves: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 3 The20l0 rating list came into operation on the 1 April 2010 therefore if he will estimate additional national insurance payments there are no proposals with respect to this list for earlier financial which would have been due in (a) employee and (b) years employer contributions if the pensions contracting-out 4 1 April 2011 to 30 April 2011 regime had not been in place in each year since 1990. Latest figures for the number of proposals (appeals) [57274] received by the Valuation Office Agency (VOA) in relation to the 2010 local rating list by local authority for the Mr Gauke [holding answer 24 May 2011]: Estimates 2010-11 financial year were published on 12 May 2011 of the additional national insurance contributions for in Table 3.2 of the “Local Rating List: Challenges” 2000-01 to 2009-10 that would have been due if publication on the VOA website in the following location: 805W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 806W

http://www.voa.gov.uk/publications/statistical_releases/May- 2011-local-rating/Challenges/Table%203.2.xls Marginal tax rate 1 The 2010 rating list came into operation on the Basic rate Higher rate Additional rate 1 April 2010 therefore there are no proposals (appeals) 2015-16 £84 £01-£168 £0 with respect to this list for earlier financial years. The 1 The personal allowance is reduced by £1 for every £2 of income number of Proposals (appeals) received by the VOA in above £100,000. Therefore additional rate and some higher rate relation to the 2010 rating list in 2011-12 financial year taxpayers will have a personal allowance of zero. to date (30 April 2011) broken down by local authority These estimates are based on the Office for Budget has been placed in the Library of the House. Responsibility’s March 2011 forecast assumptions for RPI and CPI. Overseas Companies: Payments Social Security Benefits: Expenditure Mrs Moon: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will bring forward proposals to require UK-based Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Chancellor of the oil, mining and gas companies to make annual reports Exchequer what estimate he has made of the potential on payments made to foreign governments in exchange effect of the upward revision in claimant count for access to natural resources; and if he will make a unemployment shown on table 4.15 of the Office for statement. [59347] Budget Responsibility’s Economic and Fiscal Outlook on social security benefit spending. [51560] Mr Gauke: As the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), Chris Grayling: I have been asked to reply. made clear following the G20 Finance Minister’s meeting The figures are in the following table. in February 2011, the Government believe that development Effect of the change in the claimant count unemployment assumption of new rules to require oil, gas and mining companies between November 2010 and March 2011 to report the payments they make to governments should £ billion (nominal terms) take place at the international level. The Government have committed to arguing for a 2010-11 0.0 European agreement that matches the new standards 2011-12 0.3 set in the US, and the UK will be engaging with EU 2012-13 0.5 partners on this issue. 2013-14 0.5 2014-15 0.4 Personal Taxation 2015-16 0.2

Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer These figures are published in table 4.18 of the Office pursuant to the answer of 30 March 2011, Official for Budget Responsibility’s Economic and Fiscal Outlook. Report, column 366W, on personal taxation, if he will Tax Avoidance: Northern Ireland estimate the difference in the personal taxation payable by an individual in each tax band attributable to indexation Lady Hermon: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer of personal tax allowance by (a) the consumer price how much revenue was raised as a result of steps taken index and (b) the retail prices index in each year from by HM Revenue and Customs in relation to tax avoidance 2012-13 to 2015-16. [51295] in Northern Ireland in each of the last three years; and if he will make a statement. [59336] Mr Gauke: Budget 2011 announced that the personal allowance for those aged under 65 would increase by Mr Gauke: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I £630 from April 2012, taking it from £7,475 in 2011-12 gave her on 15 March 2011, Official Report, column to £8,105 in 2012-13. The Government will further 263W. increase the personal allowance to £10,000, making real term steps each year towards this as a longer term Information on tax revenue in the UK is not collected policy objectives. by reference to its geographical source. Consequently it is not possible to allocate tax revenue to particular The following table shows hypothetical estimates of regions of the UK. the maximum increase in income tax liability attributable to indexation of the personal allowance for those aged Taxation: Domicile under 65 by CPI rather than RPI. Separate estimates are provided for basic rate, higher rate and additional Mr Redwood: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer rate taxpayers. This theoretical calculation assumes no (1) what estimate he has made of the number of non- increases above indexation (RPI and CPI) of the personal domiciled UK taxpayers who will pay the annual levy in allowance from 2012-13. The estimates therefore do not (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13; [51750] consider the Budget 2011 announcement that the personal allowance will increase by £630 in 2012-13. Calculations (2) what estimate he has made of the change in the assume income refers to employment income only. number of non-resident taxpayers between 2009 and 2010. [51762] Marginal tax rate Basic rate Higher rate Additional rate1 Mr Gauke: There is currently a £30,000 annual charge for non-domiciled individuals who have been resident 2012-13 £12 £01-£24 £0 for at least seven of the past nine years and wish to 2013-14 £32 £01£64 £0 retain access to the remittance basis of taxation. In 2014-15 £56 £01-£112 £0 Budget 2011, the Government announced that it would 807W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 808W consult on raising this charge to £50,000 for non-domiciled INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT individuals who have been resident for at least 12 years with a view to implementing this change from the Departmental Travel 2012-13 tax year. The number of individuals estimated to pay the annual charges of £30,000 and £50,000 are: Iain Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for Estimated number of individuals paying the annual £30,000 or £50,000 International Development how much his Department charge spent on first class rail travel (a) in 2009-10 and (b) Rounded 2011-12 2012-13 since May 2010. [59132] £30,000 7,400 5,900 £50,000 0 3,700 Mr Andrew Mitchell: In the year before the general election last May £75,573 was spent on first class rail Total 7,400 9,600 travel. In the year since June 2010 the equivalent figure is £197. Those individuals liable to the charge but who choose not to pay it will instead be liable to UK taxation on Developing Countries: HIV Infection their worldwide income and gains. The Government have no estimates for the change in Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for International the number of non-resident taxpayers between 2009 Development what discussions his Department has had and 2010. Information relating to the tax year 2010-11, with UNAIDS on its strategy to combat HIV/AIDS. ending in April 2011, is not yet available. [59508]

Mr O’Brien: I met the UNAIDS executive director, Taxation: Foreign Investment in UK Michel Sidibé, most recently on 13 May 2011 in Geneva. Our discussion covered his latest assessment of the HIV Chi Onwurah: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer epidemic and UNAIDS’ strategy to combat HIV. what recent representations from inward investors into Mr Sidibé will meet the Minister of State, Alan the UK on the (a) clarity and (b) timeliness of tax Duncan, on 27 June 2011, to discuss follow up to the advice from HM Revenue and Customs; and if he will Multilateral Aid Review and the recent 2011 high level make a statement. [59524] meeting on UNAIDS. I also attended the UN high level meeting on HIV Mr Gauke: The Government are committed to making and AIDS in New York on 8 and 9 June. Full details of the UK an attractive place to do business. HM Revenue my visit can be found on the Department for International and Customs provide assistance to non-UK resident Development’s website at inward investors through the Inward Investment Support http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/News-Stories/2011/30- service. This service gives clarity and certainty about the years-of-HIV-Towards-zero-infections/. tax consequences of significant investments in the UK. Forests: Overseas Aid Assistance is additionally provided through informal clearance arrangements as well as in situations permitted by statute such as Transfer Pricing and Advanced Pricing Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Agreements. International Development in which countries his Department is funding reducing emissions from Inward investors have said that HM Revenue and deforestation and forest degradation projects. [59832] Customs are highly responsive and the services they offer have been well received. Mr O’Brien: The UK is supporting the early development of programmes aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions from deforestation and forest degradation in a range of VAT: Imports countries. Most funding to date has been channelled through two funds managed by the World Bank, namely the Forest Carbon Partnership Facility (FCPF) and the Philip Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Forest Investment Programme (FIP). for what reasons he plans to reduce the threshold at which commercially imported goods are subject to value Under the FCPF the countries receiving support are: added tax from £18 to £15; and what estimate he has Argentina, Bolivia, Cameroon, Cambodia, Central African made of the revenue which will accrue to the Exchequer Republic, Chile, Colombia, Congo, Democratic Republic from this change. [59722] of Congo, Republic of Costa Rica, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Ghana, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Indonesia, Kenya, Lao People’s Democratic Mr Gauke: The Low Value Consignment Relief threshold Republic, Liberia, Madagascar, Mexico, Mozambique, is being reduced from £18 to £15 from 1 November 2011 Nepal, Nicaragua, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, as a first step towards ending the increasing exploitation Peru, Suriname, Tanzania, Thailand, Uganda, Vanuatu of this relief by companies choosing to sell to UK and Vietnam. consumers from jurisdictions outside the EU, thereby Under the FIP eight pilot countries are developing eliminating the need to levy VAT on such sales. plans for larger scale investments aimed at reducing The yield generated by this measure is set out at row rates of deforestation. These countries are: Brazil, Indonesia, 38 of Table 2.1 of the main Budget 2011 document Democratic Republic of Congo, Mexico, Ghana, Peru, published on Budget day. Burkina Faso and the Lao People’s Democratic Republic. 809W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 810W

Additionally, the UK has also providing dedicated Charles Hendry: DECC provides financial support support to the Congo Basin Forest Fund, which is for the production of renewable energy for heat and funding projects in Central Africa, specifically, in Burundi, power, including from bioliquids (biofuels for electricity Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Congo, and heat). For every megawatt hour of electricity generated, Democratic Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, eligible bioliquids currently receive 1.5 renewables obligation Gabon, Rwanda, and Säo Tomé et Principe. certificates (ROCs) if they are combusted in a dedicated biomass plant, 0.5 ROCs if co-fired with fossil fuel and Libya: Armed Conflict 2 ROCs if used in a dedicated biomass CHP plant or an advanced conversion technology such as pyrolysis. FAME Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for (fatty acid methyl ester) biodiesel currently receives International Development what planning the Stabilisation 1 ROC. The current ROC price is approximately £41. Unit in his Department has undertaken on post-conflict To receive support, electricity from bioliquids must Libya. [59776] meet the sustainability criteria set out in the renewables obligation from April 2011. Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Stabilisation Unit (SU) is co-owned by the Department for International A review of renewables obligation support for all Development, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office technologies began in October last year and changes to and the Ministry of Defence. Working closely with the support level for bioliquids will be considered as partners across Whitehall, the SU has undertaken a part of this process. We will consult on proposed levels number of planning exercises to support the Government’s this summer and publish the Government response in preparedness for engagement on post-conflict Libya. late autumn. Banding changes will come into effect on Working to the Secretary of State for International 1 April 2013. Development, SU recently deployed a multi-national Bioliquids are not eligible for support under the Stabilisation Response Team to Libya which will provide renewable heat incentive, but sustainably-produced an assessment to inform UK and international support bioliquids are being considered for inclusion from autumn in the post-conflict period. 2012 following public consultation later this year. Palestinians: Politics and Government Carbon Emissions Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what progress has been Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for made on securing adequate funding at international Energy and Climate Change what his policy is on the level for the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine reporting of carbon consumption figures alongside production figures. [58392] Refugees in the Near East. [59409]

Mr Duncan: Ireland, Finland, and Kuwait have all Gregory Barker: I refer the hon. Member to the increased their annual average contributions to the UN answer I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA). UNRWA has Sussex (Nicholas Soames) on 9 June 2011, Official also attracted additional contributions from the Islamic Report, column 482W. Development Bank and an increased commitment from Saudi Arabia, although it continues to seek further Departmental Responsibilities support from regional donors for its education and food funds. UNWRA has successfully formed partnerships Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for with the private sector and has received an extra $2.3 Energy and Climate Change what strategic framework million from the UN regular budget for international his Department has developed for the delivery of its staff costs for 2011. core functions during the comprehensive spending This increase in donor support, however, has not review period. [59730] reduced the projected short fall of $63 million in UNRWA’s general budget for 2011. We remain concerned about Gregory Barker: Delivering on our energy and climate UNWRA’s financial position and will continue to work change commitments is vital if the UK is to transform with the agency, other donors and host countries to the way that we generate and use energy, and drive help put UNWRA’s finances on a sustainable footing. ambitious action on climate change, in the UK and The UK is UNRWA’s second largest bilateral donor abroad. DECC’s business plan sets out our core functions and is considered a model donor for providing long and strategic priorities, the steps we are taking to achieve term support through our five year £110 million funding them and the indicators which will show whether or not agreement. We plan to provide up to £23.5 million of they are having the desired impact. Progress against the unearmarked funding in 2011 to UNRWA’sgeneral fund. plan is regularly monitored internally and is set out in the structural reform plan monthly updates and the forthcoming quarterly data summary, to be published ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE on our website. In delivering these high level plans, DECC works Biofuels: Finance through a range of different delivery mechanisms and partners. DECC is constantly seeking to ensure that Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy these mechanisms are effective and deliver best value for and Climate Change what level of public subsidy his money and has recently conducted a review of the Department plans to provide for the production of Department’s delivery landscape and a review of the biofuels in each of the next four financial years. [59785] energy regulatory framework. Both of these can be 811W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 812W found on the DECC website. The DECC Delivery Unit Fuel Poverty also plays an important role in tracking progress on delivery commitments and working with teams to test Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for policies for their ’deliverability’ from conception through Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of to implementation. 26 July 2011, Official Report, column 777W, on energy, whether the Independent Fuel Poverty Review has been asked to examine any extension of the data-sharing Electricity scheme with energy suppliers. [58195]

Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Gregory Barker: The Terms of Reference for the for Energy and Climate Change what account his plans Independent Fuel Poverty Review being carried out by for energy market reform will take of (a) Project Professor John Hills stipulates that the review will consider TransmiT, (b) the review of market liquidity and (c) fuel poverty from first principles; to determine the other Ofgem initiatives. [58309] nature of the issues at its core, including the extent to which fuel poverty is distinct from poverty, and the detriment it causes. It will also, as appropriate, develop Charles Hendry: The Government will continue to possible formulations for a future definition and any work closely with Ofgem to ensure that the electricity associated form of target which would best contribute, market reforms, Project TransmiT, the review of market among other things, to developing practical solutions, liquidity and Ofgem’s wider work such as cash out particularly around identification and targeting of reform are complementary and mutually reinforcing. households, and measuring progress resulting from The Government consider that significant improvements Government action. in wholesale market liquidity are essential to ensure a competitive market and promote long-term security of Greenhouse Gas Emissions supply and will help enable EMR to deliver efficient and cost-effective reforms. Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for The details of the transmission charging arrangements Energy and Climate Change what (a) carbon dioxide being reviewed under Project TransmiT are outside the emissions and (b) greenhouse gas emissions have been scope of the EMR, but we will need to work with attributable to the UK in each year since 1990. [59464] Ofgem to ensure that the outcomes of both are complementary. Gregory Barker [holding answer 13 June 2011]: DECC published final estimates of UK greenhouse gas emissions for the period 1990 to 2009 as National Statistics on 1st Energy: Research February 2011. These can be found on the DECC website at the following link: Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/ and Climate Change how much his Department and its climate_change/gg_emissions/uk_emissions/2009final/ predecessors have spent on energy research and development 2009_final.aspx since 1981. [59719] The following table shows both carbon dioxide emissions and greenhouse gas emissions for the period 1990-2009. Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and Data is for the UK and the Crown Dependencies and Climate Change has spent the following amounts on exclude Overseas Territories. energy research and development since it was created in October 2008. We do not have a record of spending by Carbon dioxide Greenhouse gas emissions Mt CO emissions Mt CO e predecessor Departments. 2 2 1990 589.7 781.6 Financial year £000 1991 596.8 786.5 1992 579.8 759.5 2008-09 5,264 1993 564.9 736.2 2009-10 6,828 1994 559.2 724.2 2010-11 50,812 1995 550.8 714.3 1996 572.8 734.5 The expenditure in 2010-11 includes £48.3 million on 1997 548.7 708.1 front end engineering design work for the Carbon Capture and Storage Demonstration project. 1998 551.6 703.5 1999 542.3 671.6 2000 549.4 672.0 Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for 2001 561.3 675.7 Energy and Climate Change how much of the funding 2002 543.7 653.7 his Department has allocated to energy research and 2003 553.4 657.6 development is to be spent on projects in (a) the UK 2004 552.6 654.4 and (b) the EU in 2011-12. [59721] 2005 549.7 649.4 2006 546.3 642.9 Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and 2007 537.8 632.2 Climate Change has allocated funding of £2,920,000 to 2008 525.1 617.7 energy research and development in 2011-12 all of 2009 473.7 563.6 which is to be spent on projects in the UK. 813W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 814W

Low Carbon Innovation Fund Nuclear Power Stations: Accidents Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what responsibility the Energy and Climate Change what process he plans to Government have to (a) act as an insurer for and (b) follow in determining the allocation of funding for the cover all costs relating to a nuclear accident in the UK. low carbon innovation fund announced in the [59632] Comprehensive Spending Review. [59701] Charles Hendry: The Nuclear Installations Act 1965 Gregory Barker: The spending review allocated over imposes third party liabilities on nuclear operators, and £200 million to support low carbon technologies, of also requires operators to cover these liabilities “by which up to £60 million will fund offshore wind insurance or by some other means”. ‘There is no legal manufacturing investment at port sites. In order to responsibility on the Government to act as an insurer target the remaining resource, a series of technology for the operators’ nuclear third party liabilities. innovation needs assessments (TINAs) has been undertaken In the recent consultation on implementing changes (and more are planned) to provide a robust evidence to the Paris convention on third party nuclear liability base on the innovation needs of the technology families and the Brussels supplementary convention, the most likely to be important in achieving our climate Government set out its proposals for significantly increasing targets and delivering benefits to the UK’s economy. the scale and scope of operators’ third party liabilities. Drawing on TINAs and other evidence, my Department Although it appears that commercial insurance will be is reviewing the financial needs of a range of innovative available to cover most of the new liabilities, there is technologies and is developing programme plans, in doubt about whether such insurance (or other commercial conjunction with others, to be implemented over the cover) will be able to cover all of the liabilities. In the next four years. I expect to announce the first allocation circumstances,. the Government also set out its proposal of funding within the next two months, and officials to make provision to enable it to provide cover in return will then work closely with external stakeholders to for a charge where cover is not available on the commercial finalise the design of these first interventions. market. The alternative would be not to impose on the Announcements on further allocations are expected to operator the liabilities for which commercial cover is follow in the second half of this year. not available and for these liabilities to remain with the taxpayer. Members: Correspondence The responsibility of Government following a nuclear accident will vary depending on the nature and scale of the accident. The position with third party liability Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy costs is that under the current Conventions operators’ and Climate Change when he plans to reply to the liability is capped. The costs above this would have to be letter of 18 January 2011 and reminder letter of met from public funds up to the limit set under the 23 March 2011 from the hon. Member for Vale of Convention, above this Government and Parliament Clwyd. [58347] would have discretion to meet further claims. The costs of a nuclear accident are not just limited to Gregory Barker: We made an extensive search but, third party liability. In the event that the accident led to unfortunately, we have no record of receiving either of the permanent closure of the site, then the operator of a these letters. We are grateful to your office for providing nuclear power station is responsible for ensuring that a copy letter (received on 8 June) which we will ensure is the site is decommissioned and remediated in accordance answered urgently. with relevant legal and licensing requirements. I am very sorry for the delay. All your other letters For the existing Magnox stations this responsibility addressed to Ministers since June 2010 have been responded sits with the Nuclear Decommissioning Agency and to within the Whitehall target of 15 working days. therefore the Government. With regard to the existing AGR stations and the PWR at Sizewell B, which are Microgeneration operated by British Energy, part of EDF Energy, decommissioning and clean up costs will be met by the Nuclear Liabilities Fund. The Government announced Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for at the time of British Energy’s restructuring in 2009 Energy and Climate Change whether his Department that it would fund qualifying liabilities to the extent that has plans to require domestic installers of microgeneration they exceed all the assets of the Fund. With regard to technologies to provide potential users with typical any new nuclear power stations it is the Government’s years to (a) energy and (b) carbon breakeven information. policy that operators must have arrangements in place [59684] to meet the full costs of decommissioning and their full share of waste management and disposal costs. The Gregory Barker: The Microgeneration Certification Energy Act 2008 requires prospective operators of scheme already requires installers to predict, using common any new nuclear power stations to have a Funded methodologies, the likely performance of the installation. Decommissioning programme, approved by the Secretary The prediction relates to annual performance, from of State, in place before construction begins and to which energy and carbon savings and years to breakeven comply with this programme thereafter. can be calculated. More complex information could be mandated, but in considering any future development Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for of the requirements, we would need to strike the right Energy and Climate Change what liability the Government balance between quality assurance for consumers and have to cover the costs of a nuclear accident exceeding placing additional requirements on industry. £1 billion; and if he will make a statement. [59633] 815W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 816W

Charles Hendry: The UK is a signatory to the Paris Water Power convention on nuclear third party liability and the Brussels supplementary convention. Under the conventions Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for third party liability for operators is capped and in the Energy and Climate Change if he will consider the UK, under the Nuclear Installations Act 1965, is currently merits of raising the level of revenue support for marine £140 million. If compensation claims exceed £140 million, renewables in order to ensure the technology can be the Government would be obliged to top-up the total developed on a commercial scale. [59635] amount available for compensation to 300 million Special Drawing Rights (about £300 million) (although it would Gregory Barker: A banding review of RO support for be able to claim back contributions from the other all technologies is currently under way and any change countries that are party to the Brussels convention) . to the support level for marine energy will be considered Above this, Government and Parliament have statutory as part of this process. Banding reviews ensure that as discretion to pay compensation to meet outstanding market conditions and innovation within sectors change claims. In a recent consultation the Government proposed and evolve, developers continue to receive the appropriate increasing the operator liability level from £140 million level of support necessary to maintaining investment in to ¤1200 million, which is ¤500 million more than the the renewables industry. minimum required by the Paris convention. If compensation We will be consulting on proposed bands this summer, claims exceed ¤1200 million, a further ¤300 million with the Government response in autumn 2011. must be made available by the Government although, as now, it will be able to claim back contributions from the Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for other countries that are party to the Brussels convention. Energy and Climate Change what proportion of the Above ¤1500 million Government and Parliament have renewables obligation he expects to support wave and statutory discretion to meet any third party claims. tidal energy. [59672] The costs of a nuclear accident are not just limited to Gregory Barker: A banding review of RO support for third party liability and will depend on the nature of the all technologies is currently underway and any change accident. In the event that the accident led to the to the support level for wave and tidal energy will be permanent closure of the site, then the operator of a considered as part of this process. Banding reviews nuclear power station is responsible for ensuring that ensure that as market conditions and innovation within the site is decommissioned and remediated in accordance sectors change and evolve, developers continue to receive with relevant legal and licensing requirements. the appropriate level of support necessary to maintaining For the existing Magnox stations this responsibility investment in the renewables industry. sits with the NDA and therefore the Government. With We will be consulting on proposed bands this summer, regard to the existing AGR stations and the PWR at with the Government response in autumn 2011. Sizewell B, which are operated by British Energy, part of EDF Energy, decommissioning and clean up costs Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for will be met by the Nuclear Liabilities Fund. The Energy and Climate Change when he plans to decide Government announced at the time of British Energy’s the proportion of the Low Carbon Innovation Fund to restructuring in 2009 that it would fund qualifying be allocated to marine energy. [59673] liabilities to the extent that they exceed all the assets of the Fund. With regard to any new nuclear power stations Gregory Barker: We are currently reviewing the needs it is the Government’s policy that operators must have of a range of innovation technologies and developing arrangements in place to meet the full costs of programme plans in conjunction with others. I expect decommissioning and their full share of waste management to announce the first allocation of funding within the and disposal costs. The Energy Act 2008 requires prospective next two months. operators of any new nuclear power stations to have a Funded Decommissioning programme, approved by the Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Secretary of State, in place before construction begins Energy and Climate Change whether he plans to provide and to comply with this programme thereafter. revenue support for marine energy in the forthcoming review of the Renewables Obligation. [59674] Nuclear Power: Liability Gregory Barker: A banding review of RO support for Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for all technologies is currently underway and any change Energy and Climate Change what legal advice he has to the support level for marine energy will be considered (a) sought and (b) received on the increase of nuclear as part of this process. Banding reviews ensure that as operator liability to over £1 billion. [59636] market conditions and innovation within sectors change and evolve, developers continue to receive the appropriate Charles Hendry: The Department issued a consultation level of support necessary to maintaining investment in on the implementation of the changes to the Paris and the renewables industry. Brussels conventions on nuclear third party liability We will be consulting on proposed bands this summer, which ran from 24 January to 28 April 2011: with the Government Response in autumn 2011 http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/ paris_brussels/paris_brussels.aspx Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for The consultation set out our proposal to set operator Energy and Climate Change what discussions he has liability at ¤1.2 billion, which is ¤500 million more than had with (a) the Chancellor of the Exchequer and (b) the minimum required under the conventions. As described the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and in the consultation document, this is one of a range of Skills on revenue and capital support for wave and tidal options that would ensure we comply with the conventions. technology. [59700] 817W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 818W

Gregory Barker: There has not been any discussions Financial on revenue or capital support at ministerial level with Departmental resources allocation for either HM Treasury or BIS. However, officials are in Ad-hoc Group provided 2011-12 (£) discussions with these Departments as part of the development of the UK Marine Energy Programme, Secretariat—1 x EO (8 3— the Banding Review of RO Support and the allocation days per year) of the £200 million for the development of low carbon technologies announced in the spending review. Work and Pensions Chair—1 x SCS (3 days 2, 36,000 Longitudinal Study per year) Data Access Ethics Committee WORK AND PENSIONS Members—2 x Band G (5 3— days per year each) Asbestos: EU Law Secretariat—1 x Band F 3— (0.05 of whole-time equivalent), 1 x Band D Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work (0.25 of whole-time and Pensions what steps he is taking to transpose into equivalent) domestic law Article 3 (3)(a) of EU Directive 2009/148/EC on the protection of workers from risks related to Health, Work and Secretariat Support 10 exposure to asbestos at work; and if he will make a Well-being National only—1 x Band C (2 days statement. [59353] Stakeholder per year) Council Chris Grayling: In April 2011, the Government responded to a reasoned opinion issued by the European Commission Ethnic Minority Secretariat Support only— 10 that the UK had not fully implemented Article 3 of Advisory Group Unabletoprovidea Directive 2003/18/EC on the protection of workers breakdown of time spent from asbestos. The Government’s response accepted on secretariat support the reasoned opinion. A public consultation on the 1 No dedicated budget. 2 proposed legislative changes will be held shortly. This represents the expenses and fees that the independent members are entitled to. Departmental Manpower 3 Indicates brace. The information on businesses units represents the Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work most detailed breakdown available from centrally held and Pensions what (a) task forces and (b) units operate records. in his Department; what the annual budget is of each; The Department’s organisational architecture comprises and how many staff each unit employs at each grade. business units designed to deliver: departmental-wide [53417] strategy and planning; strategies and policies to meet the needs of particular customer groups; direct delivery Chris Grayling: The Department currently has no of services to customers; and delivery of departmental-wide task forces as defined in the Cabinet Office’s “Categories shared services. Within each of these business units of Public Bodies” guidance. However, details of other specific responsibilities fall to functions designated as ad-hoc type groups are listed as follows. These groups directorates and divisions. do not employ any staff, however the Department supports these groups by providing the following resources: Also within these business units there are smaller business functions that are described as units but data is Financial not held centrally on their functions, budgets or staffing Departmental resources allocation for and this information could be provided only at Ad-hoc Group provided 2011-12 (£) disproportionate cost. DWP Provision Chair—1 x SCS (2 days 1, 30 The information available is set out in the following Forum per year) tables.

DWP staffing by business and grade as at 31 March 2011 DWP business AA/AO EO HEO SEO Gde7 Gde6 SCS Total

Jobcentre Plus 36,693 30,090 4,510 1,091 372 141 39 72,939 Pension Disability and Carers 7,765 4,212 685 289 109 59 19 13,139 Service Shared Services 2,801 759 274 128 65 19 10 4,057 Welfare and Wellbeing Group 51 104 187 117 132 41 32 667 Employment Group 73 125 278 132 123 37 20 787 Group Finance 81 475 453 316 170 82 29 1,608 Human Resources 37 160 323 151 115 27 16 833 Corporate IT 65 1,034 309 189 165 111 28 1,903 Strategy Information and Pensions 44 136 214 107 134 38 19 696 Legal Group 96 102 64 22 97 81 24 487 Private Office 10 12 18 0 10 1 4 55 Communications 16 117 119 63 33 6 8 363 Independent Review Service 31 13 47 410197 819W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 820W

DWP staffing by business and grade as at 31 March 2011 DWP business AA/AO EO HEO SEO Gde7 Gde6 SCS Total

Change Directorate 10 87 110 69 38 15 4 333 DWP Total 47,774 37,426 7,590 2,678 1,564 658 252 97,963 Notes: 1. Figures are Full Time Equivalent (FTE) 2. Figures may not sum due to FTE rounding and the exclusion of a small number of cases where the grade was not held on the pay record at the time the data was extracted.

Departmental resource allocations for 2011-12 and the commencement of the work programme in Resource budget 2011-12 (£ June 2011; and if he will make a statement. [57919] Business unit million)

Jobcentre Plus 2,868 Maria Miller: Our top priority has always been to Pensions, Disability and Carers Service 563 ensure that customers are properly supported during Child Maintenance and Enforcement 545 the transition to the Work Programme Commission Pathways to Work contracts ended on 27 April 2011. Health and Safety Executive 198 Since then, every customer eligible for employment and Employment Group 1,114 support allowance (ESA) has continued to receive benefit Welfare and Wellbeing Group 1,004 and will continue to do so, unless their circumstances Group Finance 411 change. no customer has had, or will have, their employment Human Resources 98 and support allowance stopped as a result of the Work Corporate IT 553 Programme transitional arrangements. Shared Services 1— Employment and support allowance customers are Other corporate units, including 446 also being supported by the new flexible Jobcentre Plus departmental unallocated provision offer, introduced in April, until the Work Programme is Total 7,800 implemented in their area. Following implementation, 1 Shared Services is funded by the charges it makes to the Government customers will be able to access the Work Programme Departments using its services. The costs of those services provided to on a voluntary or mandatory basis from after their DWP are met from the budget allocations held by Human Resources work capability assessment, depending on their and Group Finance Directorate. Source: circumstances. Internal resource allocation records Housing Benefit: Birmingham Departmental Renewable Energy Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for David Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the and Pensions how many buildings (a) owned and (b) effects of the proposed change to the shared leased by his Department have had renewable energy accommodation rate of housing benefit on people in equipment installed to provide power in the last 12 Birmingham. [57846] months; and what type of equipment was installed in each such case. [59675] Steve Webb: The information requested can be found in the Equality Impact Assessment of the increase to Chris Grayling: Because of the length of the pay-back the Shared Accommodation Rate age threshold, available period for renewable technologies, no such equipment on the DWP website at: has been installed in the last twelve months. The http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/eia-hb-shared-accommodation- Department and its PFI estate partner have concentrated age-threshold.pdf on reducing consumption and improving efficiency. However, a Salix funded combined heat and power Industrial Health and Safety: Heating (CHP) plant was installed at the Department’s Quarry House headquarters building in Leeds at the end of Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2010. Although this is not strictly renewable as it is and Pensions what guidance the Health and Safety fuelled by natural gas it is classified as ’sustainable’ Executive issues on (a) workplace temperatures which technology. Initial indications are that performance is are not considered reasonable and (b) temperatures at exceeding the estimated saving of £90,000 and 428tCO2 which control measures to manage heat must be put in a year. place. [59113] In addition, Callendar Park Falkirk, a Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission building constructed in Chris Grayling: There is guidance available on the 2009, has three large solar panels which provide the site HSE website covering a range of issues relating to with hot water. temperature, including thermal comfort, cold stress, heat stress, outdoor working and workplace temperatures. The information also includes guides for managers and Employment and Support Allowance for workers and gives advice on conducting a risk assessment and actions that may be taken to address Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work identified risks. The Workplace (Health, Safety and and Pensions how many people will not receive employment Welfare) Regulations 1992 Approved Code of Practice and support allowance as a result of a gap in provision recommends a minimum temperature of 16 degrees between the closure of Pathways to Work in April 2011 Celsius (unless much of the work involves severe physical 821W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 822W effort in which case the temperature should be at least will do this through normal turnover where possible. If people 13 degrees Celsius). The guidance does not stipulate a become surplus we will seek to redeploy them within DWP or the specific temperature at which control measures should wider Civil Service. be put in place to manage high temperatures. Compulsory redundancies will always be the last resort and voluntary redundancy will always be offered first. Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what research his Department has (a) Mental Health commissioned and (b) evaluated on the long-term and short-term physical and psychological effects of Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work persistent exposure to high temperatures. [59184] and Pensions what qualifications are required of mental health champions based in each medical examination Chris Grayling: In 2009 HSE commissioned an centre; and if he will make a statement. [58564] independent review into workplace temperatures, which drew on the wide range of non-Government research Chris Grayling: Mental function champions are required available. Following this review HSE conducted a survey to have post qualification clinical experience in the field about temperatures in workplaces, to which 2933 completed of mental health. There is no requirement for them to responses were submitted. Evaluation of this and other have postgraduate mental health qualifications in addition data provided little evidence of significant numbers of to their primary qualifications. illnesses, long or short term, physical or psychological, caused or exacerbated by exposure to high temperatures. Social Security Benefits Industrial Health and Safety: Homicide Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will review the coherence of Work and Pensions how many successful prosecutions policy across different Government Departments in the for corporate manslaughter have been brought by the administration of health and welfare benefits. [59571] Health and Safety Executive in each year since 2005. [59197] Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions is responsible for welfare and employment issues and Chris Grayling: The offence of corporate manslaughter we have developed a coherent strategy to address poverty was introduced in the Corporate Manslaughter and and to support the most vulnerable, helping people Corporate Homicide Act 2007. Since then there has break the cycle of benefit dependency. A crucial part of been one prosecution which was taken by the Crown this is to ensure that people are not written off to a Prosecution Service in 2010-11 and this resulted in a lifetime on benefits because they have a health condition conviction for corporate manslaughter. or disability. Many people with health conditions are The police investigate suspected cases of corporate able to sustain and progress in employment. The manslaughter/homicide and prosecution decisions are Department therefore needs to ensure that people currently made by the Crown Prosecution Service (England and receiving incapacity benefits are supported in preparing Wales), the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service for a return to work where some form of employment is (Scotland) and the Director of Public Prosecutions a possibility. (Northern Ireland). In these cases there is a joint approach The reassessment of old-style incapacity benefits to work-related deaths between the Health and Safety claimants is a key part of our agenda to create and Executive and all the relevant regulatory authorities. deliver a 21st century welfare system by ensuring that those people who can work are given the correct support Jobcentre Plus: Redundancy to do so. Through the groundbreaking Work Programme we Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for are giving those in the private and voluntary sector the Work and Pensions whether any Jobcentre Plus staff freedom to design tailor-made back to work support will be made compulsorily redundant during the built around the needs of the individual. The referral comprehensive spending review period. [59771] process is designed to give harder to help groups on benefits access to the programme at the appropriate Chris Grayling: The administration of Jobcentre Plus stage in their claim. Once on the programme, advisers is a matter for the chief executive of Jobcentre Plus, will devise tailored back to work plans for each claimant, Darra Singh. I have asked him to provide the hon. taking in to account their circumstances. Member with the information requested. In addition, we are currently taking through Parliament Letter from Darra Singh: the Welfare Reform Bill which makes widespread reforms The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question to the welfare system. An underlying principle of our asking whether any Jobcentre Plus staff will be made compulsorily reforms is to provide a more joined-up service, which is redundant during the Comprehensive Spending Review period. easier and more transparent for claimants to navigate This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. their way through in order to receive personal financial support. Most notably, Universal Credit will provide a The Spending Review 2010 announced that DWP would deliver new single system of means-tested support for working-age 26% savings in real terms from its core budget over the four year period to 2015. Jobcentre Plus will contribute to these savings by people in and out of work. Support for housing costs, driving up efficiency in the way it works through more use of its children and child care costs will be integrated in the online services and implementing ideas that help improve processes new benefit. It will also provide additions for disabled and productivity. Where this results in the need to reduce jobs we people and carers. 823W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 824W

State Retirement Pensions: Females Work Capability Assessment: Mental Health

Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what consideration is given to the timing and Pensions what recent discussions he has had with of work capability assessments at appropriate points trade unions regarding women who will see their state during a cycle of medication of a person with a mental pension age increased by one year or more as a result of health condition; and if he will make a statement. the proposed change in the state pension age for [58245] women; and if he will make a statement. [59420] Chris Grayling: Atos healthcare professionals provide Steve Webb: Prior to the introduction of the Pensions advice to Jobcentre Plus decision makers on when a Bill into the House of Lords, the Minister for Welfare customer is likely to be able to return to work. Treatment, Reform, the noble Lord Freud, had meetings with a including any medication that the customer is taking is number of stakeholder organisations including one of the factors that the healthcare professional takes representatives from Trade Unions to discuss our proposals. into account when providing this advice. Decision makers use the advice from the healthcare professional, in addition to all the other available evidence, when deciding Unemployed People: Public Transport when to refer the customer back to Atos for reassessment. Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) how many appeals against work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 23 May 2011, capability assessments made on the basis of mental Official Report, columns 499-500W, on travel to health needs were upheld at tribunal in the latest period interview, what steps he is taking to increase public for which figures are available; and if he will make a awareness of the Flexible Support Fund. [58419] statement; [58246] (2) how many appeals against work capability Chris Grayling: Advisers within Jobcentre Plus will assessments have been made on grounds of mental use the flexibility afforded to them to ensure that claimants health conditions in the latest period for which figures are given the right level of support at the right point in are available; and if he will make a statement. [58247] their journey towards employment. They will do so by drawing down from a flexible menu of support options Chris Grayling: There were 50,100 appeals heard which has been developed based on individual and local against the Fit for Work decision for new employment labour market need, the Flexible Support Fund is part and support allowance (ESA) claims made up to the of this broader menu. end of February 2010, where the primary condition was classed as Mental and Behavioural Disorders. Of the Internal guidance has been developed to help Jobcentre appeals heard over this period 28,900 (58%) were upheld Plus staff decide whether Flexible Support Fund assistance in favour of DWP. is likely to be beneficial for claimants. The data presented above comes from benefit claims The primary communication strategy is to ensure data held by the Department for Work and Pensions, advisers have the right guidance and support, supplemented functional assessment data from Atos Healthcare and by public information, to raise awareness of the offer appeals data from the Tribunals Service. among customers. Evidence tells us that Jobcentre Plus Data on appeals heard are published for new ESA advisers are one of our most trusted and effective claims starting between October 2008, when ESA was channels of communication. A key part of their role is introduced, and up to the. end of February 2010 (the to help people find work by explaining the integrated latest month where there are sufficient volumes of appeals package of employment support and encouraging active heard). Appeals are only included in the figures where participation. We are also developing a range of stakeholder the person claiming has been found Fit for Work, they communications to increase awareness among our partners have subsequently appealed against the Department’s and customer representative groups, and building on decision and the appeal has been heard by the Tribunals existing content on the Directgov website to ensure Service. Figures are only available for appeals that have customers understand how flexibility works for them. been completed and not those that are currently under way. Due to the time it takes for appeals to be submitted to Work Capability Assessment the Tribunals Service and heard, it is likely that there are more appeals that have not yet been heard. As a Paul Uppal: To ask the Secretary of State for Work result these figures should continue to be treated as and Pensions when he plans to publish the second emerging findings and not final at this stage. independent review by Professor Harrington on the work capability assessment in relation to fluctuating Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work conditions. [58361] and Pensions how many questions asked during the course of a work capability assessment relate to mental health conditions; and if he will make a statement. Chris Grayling: We expect Professor Harrington to [58248] publish the second independent review of the WCA in the autumn. On 7 June 2010, Professor Harrington Chris Grayling: An Atos healthcare professional should published an interim report, which can be viewed at: carry out a mental function assessment in all cases http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-review-interim-report-may- where the customer has a condition that affects mental, 2011.pdf cognitive or intellectual function. 825W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 826W

There is no standard set of questions. The number £ and type of questions that the healthcare professional Paid in Allocated in asks as part of the mental function assessment will vary Authority 2010/11 2011/12 Difference from person to person according to nature and severity of the underlying mental health condition(s). City of York 249,866 249,866 0 Council East Riding of 7,837 — -7,837 Yorkshire Council BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Glasgow City 440,705 475,250 34,545 Council Departmental Pensions Hertfordshire 9,000 — -9,000 County Council Liverpool City 135,743 275,217 139,474 Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Council Innovation and Skills what proportion of his Department’s London Borough of 10,175 — -10,175 budget he expects to be spent on staff pensions in each Richmond Upon of the next five years. [54573] Thames London Borough of 708,010 — -708,010 Mr Davey: Pension benefits for staff are provided Tower Hamlets through arrangements under the Principal Civil Service Newport City 281,405 253,645 -27,760 Pension scheme. Therefore, the budget for the Department Council does not include expenditure for paying pensions. North Lanarkshire 163,030 270,594 107,564 Council Details of the level of social security and other employer North Yorkshire 22,653 — -22,653 contributions that fall to the Department are published County Council annually within our resource accounts which are available Nottingham City 458,387 — -458,387 on the Department’s website. Information on costs for Council the last financial year (2010-11) is expected to be available Nottinghamshire 169,153 248,622 79,469 in July 2011. County Council The proportion of the Department’s budget to be Powys County 441 — -441 spent on employer contributions in each of the next five Council years will be determined by whatever changes are agreed Redcar and 673,179 225,361 -447,818 Cleveland Borough to the Principal Civil Service scheme following the Council recommendations in the Hutton review. However, the Slough Borough 9,000 — -9,000 Department estimates that it will spend less than 1% of Council its overall budget on such contributions in each of the Solihull 272,199 274,709 2,510 next four years. No estimate has been made for 2015-16 Metropolitan as this is outside the current spending review period. Borough Council Local Government Finance Postal Services: Crime Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how much each local authority Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for received from each (a) revenue and (b) capital funding Business, Innovation and Skills whether potential stream from his Department in (i) 2010-11 and (ii) postal offences reported to Royal Mail by members of 2011-12; how much funding his Department allocated the public are routinely passed on to the police; how from each such stream in each year; and what the many such offences were reported by Post Office Ltd change was in the level of funding in each such stream and Royal Mail in the last 12 months; what mechanism between those years in (A) cash and (B) real terms. is in place to enable customers to report potential postal offences; and if he will make a statement. [49252] [60115] Mr Davey: The following table shows the programme Mr Davey: These are operational matters for the (revenue) funding payments made by the Department company. direct to local authorities in 2010/11 and the amounts I have therefore asked the chief executive of Royal that have been allocated to local authorities so far in Mail, Moya Greene, to respond directly to my hon. 2011/12. No direct capital funding was made in 2010/11 Friend and a copy of her reply will be placed in the or allocated in 2011/12. The differences between the Libraries of the House. amounts paid and the amounts allocated are shown in cash terms. Students: Counselling

£ Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Paid in Allocated in Innovation and Skills what legal obligations apply to Authority 2010/11 2011/12 Difference higher education providers in relation to the emotional Birmingham City 1,735,590 3,716,789 1,981,199 wellbeing of their students through the provision of Council pastoral care services. [58405] Bristol City Council 807,145 250,991 -556,154 Mr Willetts: It is a long-established principle that Cardiff County 765,827 653,625 -112,202 Council universities have a duty of care to their students. Higher education institutions (HEIs) are under no legal obligations 827W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 828W in relation to the emotional wellbeing of their students he difference between landfill site for grant and landfill site but they do have duties under the Equality Act 2010 to licensed; support disabled students in higher education, including foreign direct investment and China; those with mental health conditions. HEIs themselves closure of the DSA in Cardiff; will determine what welfare and counselling services correspondence between the Wales Office and the Treasury they need to provide to their students to offer appropriate about the Barnett Formula; support. approved contractors to work on highways in Wales and Institutions have access to guidance on supporting approved contractors to work on crash barriers; students and staff with mental health conditions from a travel and subsistence for Ministers, Directors and staff for range of sector and medical bodies, including the Heads 2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010/11; of University Counselling Services, the Association of the Wales Office St David’s Day reception; Managers of Student Services in Higher Education, the the list of invitees to the St David’s Day reception; Royal College of Psychiatrists, the former Disability credit card statements since April 2010; and Rights Commission and most recently from the written guidance from special advisers to press officers. UniversitiesUK/Guild HE Working Group for the Promotion of Mental Well-Being in Higher Education. The names of the applicants in respect of the above Further information about the Working Group is available requests are being withheld in order to comply with the at the following website: Data Protection Act 1998. The applicants provided their details to enable the Wales Office to respond to http://www.mwbhe.com/ their requests for information. It would be incompatible Trade Unions: Pay with the principles set out in the 1998 Act to disclose their details for another purpose. Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, The reasons why the deadlines were not met were that Innovation and Skills if he will estimate the number of additional time was needed to ensure that the information full-time trade union officials whose salaries are paid was comprehensive and accurate, to consult others or to consider fully the public interest test. from the public purse. [58977]

Mr Davey: No precise estimates are available. However, according to the Workplace Employment Relations Survey DEFENCE 2004, about 10% of “senior” workplace representatives, in both the public and private sectors combined, work Apache Helicopters: Guided Weapons full time on their representative functions. Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Trade Unions: Public Bodies what assessment he has made of the safety implications for armed forces personnel of firing Hellfire missiles Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, from Apache helicopters; and if he will make a statement. Innovation and Skills what recent representations he [59261] has received on the employment of full-time trade union officials by public bodies. [58973] Peter Luff: Hellfire missiles, and all other munitions fired from the UK Apache helicopter, have had a complete Mr Davey: BIS has not received any representations safety and risk analysis undertaken to understand all recently on the employment of full-time trade union aspects of the implications of their use prior to their officials by public bodies. introduction to service. This included assessments of the risks to service personnel and other operators of the aircraft, both in the air and on the ground.

WALES Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many Hellfire missiles have been fired by Apache Freedom of Information helicopters in each of the last five years; and if he will make a statement. [58703] Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales pursuant to the answer of 9 June 2011, Official Peter Luff: Detailed records for Apache attack helicopter Report, column 407W, on freedom of information, if firings of Hellfire missiles are only available since 2008 she will publish information on (a) the nature of each onwards, as shown in the following table: request, (b) the name of the applicant and (c) the reason why the deadline was not met in respect of each Number of Hellfires Freedom of Information Act 2000 request which was January 2008 - December 2008 151 not determined within the deadline. [59828] January 2009 - December 2009 164 January 2010 - December 2010 128 Mr David Jones: The requests sought information on: January 2011 - May 2011 108 the composition of the Referendum Project board, its terms of reference and availability of minutes; This includes both operational and training firings. amounts of severance pay paid to Wales Office staff and the The Hellfire missile has shown itself to be the weapon numbers of staff involved; of choice for Apache attack helicopter operations, proving Wales Office Senior Civil Service expense claims; to be an accurate and reliable weapon system and Wales Office staff expenses; providing airborne fire support to ground forces. This 829W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 830W predominantly involves supporting troops in contact, in 1 April 2008 - 31 March 2009: three cases resulted in staff addition to providing cover for the emergency medical being prosecuted or disciplined extraction of seriously wounded personnel. 1 April 2009 - 31 March 2010: Nil cases resulted in staff being prosecuted or disciplined Armed Forces: Pensions 1 April 2010 - 31 March 2011: One case resulted in staff being prosecuted or disciplined Dr Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence The figures are provided as at the date of report and how many (a) civilian and (b) uniformed armed forces include all cases closed up to 13 June 2011. personnel at each grade have pension pots (i) currently Falkland Islands: Air Force valued and (ii) projected to be valued on retirement at more than (A) £1 million and (B) £1.5 million. [59356] Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Robathan: The information is not held centrally Defence (1) how many quick reaction alert activations and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. took place in the Falklands in the last 12 months; and how many aircraft (a) took part and (b) were airborne Armed Forces: Redundancy within the alert time on each such activation; [59553] (2) how many Ministry of Defence aircraft were Alun Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence permanently based in the Falklands in the latest period how many applications for voluntary redundancy from for which figures are available; and what the model of the armed forces his Department has received from each such aircraft is. [59555] members of the armed forces resident in each parliamentary constituency. [59386] Nick Harvey [holding answer 14 June 2011]: I refer the right hon. Member to the answer I gave on 23 May Mr Robathan [holding answer 13 June 2011]: The 2011, Official Report, column 391W. There have been total number of extant valid applications for the compulsory no further quick reaction alert activations. regular armed forces redundancy programme across the HMS Endurance three services is 2,295. Data broken down by parliamentary constituency could be provided only at disproportionate cost. The window for applications for this first, of up to Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for four, tranches has now closed. All tranches are due to be Defence (a) for how long HMS Endurance was leased, complete by March 2015. (b) how much that lease cost and (c) at what cost it was purchased. [58918] Armed Forces: Uniforms Peter Luff: The records of these arrangements are stored in archive and need to be retrieved in order to Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for provide a full answer to the hon. Member. I will write to Defence how much his Department has spent on the hon. Member in due course. operations-specific personal protective (a) clothing and (b) equipment in the last 12 months. [58366] Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate he has made of the cost to the Peter Luff: During financial year 2010-11, the Ministry public purse of the decommissioning of HMS of Defence spent approximately £15 million on Endurance. [58919] operational-specific personal protective equipment including body armour, pelvic protection and helmets. These costs Peter Luff: Cost models for the different options for include items issued to new recruits and the replenishment delivering the UK’s ice patrol capability will be developed of stores in addition to supplies for personnel deployed. to inform the decision-making process. I am withholding Items of operational-specific personal protective clothing details of such costs as its disclosure would prejudice are contained within a number of wider clothing contracts. commercial interests. Costs for the last 12 months could be provided only at disproportionate cost. HMS Protector

Departmental Travel Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) what estimate he has made of the cost to Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the public purse of the (a) fuel, (b) personnel and (c) Defence how many disciplinary offences for the maintenance of HMS Protector in each year of its improper use of a Government procurement card have lease; [58920] been recorded in his Department in each of the last five (2) (a) what options there are available to extend the years. [59030] lease of HMS Protector and (b) what estimate his Department has made on the cost of continuing the Mr Robathan: This information is not held centrally lease of HMS Protector beyond the current contract. and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. [58921] However, the Department does have a whistleblowing hotline at the Defence irregularity reporting cell and the Peter Luff: The initial three year lease for HMS following figures are based on incidents reported to that Protector can be extended for up to another two years. cell: I am withholding information relating to the costs of 1 April 2007 - 31 March 2008: four cases resulted in staff being extending the lease as its disclosure would prejudice prosecuted or disciplined commercial interests. 831W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 832W

We have estimated that the annual costs of operating Lease costs for the four river class vessels HMS Protector would be approximately £2.3 million £ for fuel and £4 million for personnel. Maintenance Financial year costs are included in the leasing contract and are not 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 separately identifiable. HMS Clyde 642,000 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 million million million million Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence 1 The lease cost for the HMS Tyne, HMS Severn, HMS Mersey is a what estimate he has made of the cost to his single charge for all three vessels. Department of leasing HMS Protector under sharing arrangements with the Foreign and Commonwealth Reserve Forces Office; and if he will make a statement. [59260] Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Peter Luff: The delivery of the UK’s ice patrol capability Defence what post-operation support his Department is funded solely by the Ministry of Defence and there makes available to reservists based in (a) Northern are no cost sharing arrangements with the Foreign and Ireland and (b) other parts of the UK. [59252] Commonwealth Office. HMS Protector has been leased, at a cost of £26million, from GC Rieber Shipping for an Mr Robathan: I refer the hon. Member to the answer initial period of three years. I gave on 31 January 2011, Official Report, columns Libya: Armed Conflict 520-21W, to the hon. Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley). Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) how many Royal Air Force personnel are Reserve Forces: Northern Ireland based at Gioia del Colle as part of Operation Ellamy; [57677] Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) what the average (a) daily and (b) monthly cost Defence how many members of the reserve forces in of basing Royal Air Force personnel at Gioia del Colle Northern Ireland were mobilised in each of the last three years for which figures are available. [59335] has been to date. [57699]

Nick Harvey [holding answer 7 June 2011]: As of Mr Robathan: The following table provides the total 1 June 2011 there were 550 RAF personnel, to the number of reserve personnel with a residential address nearest 50, based in Gioia del Colle as part of Operation in Northern Ireland who were mobilised in each of the Ellamy. These include UK personnel seconded to NATO last three financial years. for operation Unified Protector. Financial year Mobilised Reservists The precise number of personnel overseas fluctuates on a daily basis for a variety of reasons, including 2008-09 80 temporary absence for training, evacuation for medical 2009-10 200 reasons, the roulement of forces, visits and a range of 2010-11 60 other factors. We do not, therefore, publish actual figures for personnel deployed. All numbers have been subject to rounding. The average monthly cost, assessed on 1 June 2011, Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for for accommodation of all UK personnel (including Defence how many members of the (a) Royal Naval Royal Navy, army and civilians) at Gioia dell Colle is Reserve and (b) Territorial Army were recruited in around £1 million. This equates to an approximate cost Northern Ireland in each of the last three years. [59337] of £30,000 per day. Navy Mr Robathan: The following table provides information on the total number of personnel recruited from Northern Ireland into the Royal Naval Reserve and the Territorial Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Army in each of the last three financial years: Defence what vessels are leased by the Royal Navy; and what the cost to the public purse was to lease each such 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 vessel in each of the last five years. [58914] Royal Naval 82026 Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence leases three river Reserve class vessels (HMS Tyne, HMS Severn and HMS Mersey), Territorial 373 263 121 one more capable modified river class vessel (HMS Army Clyde) and one ice breaker (HMS Protector). As the lease for HMS Protector began in March 2011, there are no historic costs. Lease costs for the four river class vessels TRANSPORT £ Financial year Cycling England 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11

HMS Tyne, HMS 8.9 7.3 7.3 7.3 7.3 Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for Severn and HMS million million million million million Transport (1) what plans he has to ensure that the work Mersey1 formerly carried out by Cycling England; [58863] 833W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 834W

(2) what plans he has to support cycling in large Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport urban areas outside London. [58866] what proportion of those granted HS2 exceptional hardship compensation to date were supported by legal advisors. Norman Baker: The Government are strongly committed [59495] to cycling, as was made clear in the coalition agreement. We see the encouragement of cycling and walking, Mr Philip Hammond: HS2 Ltd does not record this along with improvements to public transport, as key to information. cutting carbon emissions and enhancing the quality of our urban areas. Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport As announced in the Public Bodies Review, Cycling what steps his Department is taking to establish appropriate England ceased to exist after 31 March 2011. long-term blight arrangements to assist those most In January this year we published our White Paper on seriously affected by the proposed HS2 line; and if he Local Transport: “Creating Growth, Cutting Carbon— will make a statement. [59503] Making Sustainable Local Transport Happen”. Chapter 5 of the White Paper sets out what we are doing, and Mr Philip Hammond: Details of the statutory provisions what local authorities can do, to support cycling. on blight and compensation that would apply for any At the same time I announced the £560 million Local new high speed line, and a range of options for possible Sustainable Transport Fund, available to transport additional discretionary arrangements to help those authorities outside London, large or small, rural or whose properties would not be compulsorily purchased urban. Transport authorities themselves, working together in order to build a new line, but who may still experience with the communities they serve, have determined their a significant loss in the value of their property as a own transport priorities in bidding to the Fund. The result of it, are set out in Annex A of the Government’s Department for Transport is currently assessing bids to consultation document, “High Speed Rail: Investing in the first tranche of the Fund, and I will be making Britain’s Future” available at: announcements as planned later this summer. Many of http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/library/documents/ the bids feature proposals featuring cycling. consultation-document

Halifax-Leeds Railway Line Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many property owners who applied to the HS2 Exceptional Hardship Scheme applied in respect of a Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport property which was inherited following bereavement; what plans he has for future numbers of carriages on and how many such applications were (a) accepted and passenger rail services between Halifax and Leeds. (b) rejected. [59506] [59637]

Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport announced Mr Philip Hammond: Four applications to the in April 2011 an agreement with Northern Rail to add Exceptional Hardship Scheme have been received so far 20 carriages to their fleet. As a consequence the following in respect of a property which is part of the estate of a trains will be lengthened: the 09.16 service from Halifax deceased person. Two of these have been accepted; the to Leeds and the 06.37 service from Leeds to Halifax other two are awaiting decision. (which then goes on to arrive at Manchester Victoria at 08.14). These carriages are expected to be introduced in December 2011. Transport: Disadvantaged The Department is currently in negotiations with Northern Rail to agree the deployment of further additional Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for carriages in the north. These discussions are expected to Transport what plans his Department has to promote be concluded and an announcement made later in the social inclusion through transport. [58865] year. Norman Baker: Good transport is crucial to people’s High Speed 2 Railway Line quality of life. The Department for Transport (DfT) actively promotes measures to enhance social inclusion Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport by enabling disadvantaged people to connect with what the average value is of the properties in respect of employment opportunities, key services, social networks which compensation has been awarded under the HS2 and goods. Exceptional Hardship scheme; and how many such DfT initiatives contributing to reducing social exclusion homes were (a) semi-detached, (b) detached, (c) terraced include: and (d) bungalows. [59492] Providing free, off-peak bus travel for elderly and disabled people in England. Mr Philip Hammond: 38 applications have been accepted, Reducing crime and the fear of crime wherever it occurs in the and the total value of 34 of these properties, calculated transport system. by the sum of formal offers made to applicants, is Continuing to build on the progress that has already been £19,920,000, giving an average property value of made following the introduction of accessibility regulations £585,882.35. HS2 Ltd is currently awaiting valuations for trains, buses and coaches under the Disability Discrimination on the other four properties that have been accepted. Act 1995 (DDA). HS2 Ltd does not record information on property Helping disabled and older drivers to continue to use their car types. as a means of accessing the services they require. 835W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 836W

Transport: Regional Planning and Development Association and the Insolvency Service. Ministry of Justice officials are in ongoing contact with officials at Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for HMRC and the Insolvency Service to discuss the impact Transport what the status is of the interim regional of the reforms on insolvency proceedings. transport authority; and through what mechanism its functions are being exercised. [55307] Coroners

Norman Baker: The North East Interim Regional Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Board (NEIRTB) was a non-statutory body Justice whether his Department has undertaken a cost- which agreed the regional funding advice provided to benefit analysis of the costs of appeal against a coroner’s Government in 2006 and 2009 on the prioritisation of decision (a) to a Chief Coroner and (b) by means of transport major schemes in the North East. The NEIRTB judicial review. [59774] currently has no functions, but it is possible that such a non-statutory body could have a role in future in prioritising Mr Djanogly: An impact assessment for part 1 of the local authority major transport schemes. Coroners and Justice Act 2009 was published in December Following the 2010 spending review, an announcement 2008 and summarised the full costs and benefits of has already been made on the Highways Agency major implementing the coroners provisions in the Act, including schemes programme to 2015 and the remaining decisions those relating to appeals. This estimated overall set up on funding for local authorities major transport schemes costs of £10.9 million and running costs of £6.6 million in “the Development Pool” will be made following per annum. I placed a further, more detailed, breakdown submission of best and final offers by scheme promoters. of those figures in the Library of the House on 20 May. In line with greater localism, the Government have This estimated that approximately £2.2 million of the already devolved many aspects of transport policy and running costs would be needed to fund appeals to the funding to the local authority level. The Government chief coroner. No further analysis has been conducted. will announce later this year how they intend to take forward such devolution with respect to local authority Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for major transport schemes for the next spending review Justice whether he has made an assessment of the period. potential cost to the public purse of carrying out functions that would have been undertaken by the Chief Coroner. [59775]

JUSTICE Mr Djanogly: As announced in the written ministerial statement on 14 October 2010, Official Report, column Asylum: Appeals 36WS, changes to the coroners’ services from partial implementation of Part One of the Coroners and Justice Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Act 2009 will be cost-neutral. The decision to transfer whether arrangements are in place to restrict eligibility Chief Coroner functions without fully implementing to appeal against asylum judgements in the same way Part One of the Act means that the estimated £10.9 million as restrictions are placed on eligibility for legal aid for set-up costs, and £6.6 million running costs per annum the general public. [59689] would no longer be incurred by the public purse.

Mr Djanogly: The Government recently conducted a Debt Collection consultation on proposals for the reform of legal aid in England and Wales, which closed on 14 February 2011. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Currently legal aid can be provided for asylum matters. what percentage of (a) successful enforcements and Before funding is granted, the applicant must satisfy a (b) funding recovered from the original outstanding means test, and a test of the merits of the case. The debt were made by High Court enforcement officers in means test for asylum cases is the same as for other each of the last five years. [59309] types of case. We are considering the consultation responses, and Mr Djanogly: High Court enforcement officers are will publish the Government response shortly. obliged to provide the Ministry of Justice with annual Statistics on the writs they receive and execute. Figures Civil Proceedings: Insolvency are only available since 2008:

Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Writs cleared in year 2008 2009 2010 what recent representations he has received on his proposals for reform of civil litigation funding and costs for insolvency Unenforceable 43,607 50,245 45,931 cases; what response he has made to such representations; No goods 2,157 2,007 2,133 and if he will make a statement. [59836] Refused entry 4,240 3,306 3,152 Paid - by 9,431 13,015 12,289 Mr Djanogly: Annex A of ‘Reforming Civil Litigation instalments Funding and Costs in England and Wales—Implementation Paid - single 8,752 8,530 8,323 payment of Lord Justice Jackson’s Recommendations: The Government Response,’ set out the list of those who Other 218 229 342 Total number of 68,405 77,332 72,170 responded to the consultation. This included the Association writs cleared of Business Recovery Professionals, the Insolvency Lawyers 837W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 838W

Writs cleared in year 2008 2009 2010 Writs issued

2006 38,094 Percentage 63.7 65.0 63.6 2007 48,731 Unenforceable 2008 53,196 Percentage no 3.2 2.6 3.0 2009 49,701 goods Percentage refused 6.2 4.3 4.4 Statistics for 2010 have not yet been published. entry Percentage paid by 13.8 16.8 17.0 Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice instalments (1) what the monetary value was of each of his Percentage paid - 12.8 11.0 11.5 Department’s contracts for High Court enforcement single payment services in each of the last three years; and who held Percentage Other 0.3 0.3 0.5 each such contract; [59654] (2) what the monetary value is of each of his Total money 64,454,694 61,855,548 64,253,832 Department’s contracts for High Court enforcement collected from these writs (£) services in Liverpool; and who held each such contract. [59655] Total value of all 347,181,497 420,347,175 391,774,510 these writs (£) Total value of 92,146,834 107,401,658 97,776,844 Mr Djanogly: HM Courts and Tribunals Service does enforceable writs not have any contracts with any High Court enforcement only (£) officers. Enforcement in the civil courts is a matter for Penceinthe£-all 18.6 14.7 16.4 the creditor. It would be for the creditor to request the writs High Court enforcement officer to enforce on their Penceinthe£- 69.9 57.6 65.7 behalf. enforceable writs Value of 255,034,663 312,945,517 293,997,666 Departmental Responsibilities unenforceable debt (£) Unenforceable debt 73.5 74.4 75.0 Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for as percentage of Justice what strategic framework his Department has total debt developed for the delivery of its core functions during the comprehensive spending review period. [59725] Number of new 70,557 78,411 71,114 writs received in Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Departmental Business Plan year 2011-15 sets out the strategic vision of the Department during the spending review period. We have organised Successful enforcement is defined as those cases paid our reform work into the five Structural Reform Priorities either by instalment or by a single payment. that make up the Business Plan. HMCTS does not have statistics on the fees recovered The delivery arms (National Offender Management by the High Court enforcement officers. Service, HM Courts and Tribunals Service, the Legal Services Commission and the Office of the Public Guardian) have drawn up business plans that tie in to the overall Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice strategic direction of the Department. The plans are what the monetary value is of his Department’s contract available through the following website: with Sherforce for High Court enforcement services. www.justice.gov.uk [59310] To support this framework, business areas that support front line delivery have produced Corporate Delivery Mr Djanogly: HM Courts and Tribunals Service does Plans. These include the strategies that are needed to not have any contracts with Sherforce or, in fact, any deliver change, as well as delivery actions and resources. other High Court enforcement officer. Enforcement in the civil courts is a matter for the creditor. It would be Domestic Violence: Legal Aid for the creditor to request the High Court enforcement officer to enforce on their behalf. Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what recent representations he has received on Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice his proposals for legal aid for private family cases how many cases have been passed by HM Courts and involving victims of domestic violence; what response Tribunals Service to each High Court enforcement he has made to such representations; and if he will [59652] officer in each year since 2006. make a statement. [59834]

Mr Djanogly: HM Courts and Tribunals Service have Mr Djanogly: The Government recently conducted a not passed any cases to High Court enforcement officers. consultation on proposals for the reform of legal aid in Enforcement in the civil courts is a matter for the England and Wales, which closed on 14 February 2011. creditor. It would be for the creditor to request the High The Government have received consultation responses Court enforcement officers to enforce on their behalf. and representations from representative bodies and However the number of High Court monetary writs members of the public about legal aid for private family issued by creditors since 2006 is: cases involving victims of domestic violence, and our 839W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 840W proposals in this area have been raised in parliamentary many such people received (i) a custodial sentence and debates. We have been carefully considering responses. (ii) the maximum possible sentence in each case. The Government’s response to the consultation will be [59758] published shortly. Drugs: Convictions Mr Blunt: Persons found guilty at all courts and sentenced, given immediate custody and the statutory Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for maximum sentence for possession, supply and possession Justice how many people have been convicted of (a) with intent to supply a controlled drug, by classification, possession and (b) supply of illegal drugs of each in England and Wales from 2007 to 2010, can be viewed classification level in each year since 2007; and how in the tables as follows:

Number of persons found guilty at all courts and sentenced for possession, supply and possession with intent to supply a controlled drug and maximum sentence, England and Wales, 2007 to 20101, 2, 3 2007 2008 Found Total Other Immediate Maximum Found Total Other Immediate Maximum Drug offences guilty sentenced sentences custody sentence guilty sentenced sentences custody sentence

Possession class 13,389 13,286 12,383 903 3 14,599 14,516 13,531 985 4 A(max7years) Possession class 2,466 2,449 2,347 102 0 2,764 2,754 2,658 96 0 B (max 5 years) Possession class 1,761 1,798 1,738 60 4 2,848 2,892 2,805 87 5 C(max2years) Possession class 33 47 40 7 * 21 29 18 11 * unspecified Possession 14,073 14,004 13,842 162 3 17,855 17,831 17,584 247 2 cannabis4 (max 5 years) Supply class A 2,633 2,594 784 1,810 0 2,968 2,976 931 2,045 2 (max life) Supply class B 84 85 59 26 0 98 97 51 46 0 (Max 14 years) Supply class C 201 230 165 65 0 273 293 180 113 0 (max 14 years) Supply class 222 233 20 213 * 248 250 20 230 * unspecified Supply 367 354 253 101 0 352 334 230 104 0 cannabis(4) (max 14 years) Possession with 3,500 3,473 1,004 2,469 2 4,010 3,972 1,059 2,913 1 intent to supply Class A (max life) Possession with 308 302 163 139 0 341 344 180 164 0 intent to supply Class B ( max 14 years) Possession with 687 761 473 288 0 805 905 590 315 0 intent to supply Class C (max 14 years) Possession with 46 68 28 40 * 46 58 20 38 * intent to supply Class unspecified Possession with 958 910 678 232 0 1,241 1,142 879 263 0 intent to supply Cannabis (max 14 years)

2009 2010 Found Total Other Immediate Maximum Found Total Other Immediate Maximum Drug offences guilty sentenced sentences custody sentence guilty sentenced sentences custody sentence

Possession class 13,742 13,670 12,894 776 9 12,254 12,175 11,396 779 2 A(max7years) Possession class 4,204 4,186 4,072 114 0 4,265 4,268 4,110 158 0 B (max 5 years) Possession class 1,923 1,922 1,858 64 3 1,578 1,576 1,521 55 5 C(max2years) Possession class 16 27 14 13 * 15 23 20 3 * unspecified Possession 21,457 21,300 20,980 320 2 25,188 25,012 24,666 346 0 cannabis4 (max 5 years) 841W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 842W

2009 2010 Found Total Other Immediate Maximum Found Total Other Immediate Maximum Drug offences guilty sentenced sentences custody sentence guilty sentenced sentences custody sentence

Supply class A 2,804 2,809 830 1,979 0 2,549 2,530 774 1,756 0 (max life) Supply class B 171 172 84 88 0 344 340 189 151 0 (Max 14 years) Supply class C 234 235 148 87 0 122 120 79 41 0 (max 14 years) Supply class 182 184 21 163 * 284 287 35 252 * unspecified Supply 387 392 256 136 0 517 521 348 173 0 cannabis(4) (max 14 years) Possession with 3,675 3,696 861 2,835 0 3,753 3,687 908 2,779 1 intent to supply Class A (max life) Possession with 468 470 296 174 0 882 893 590 303 0 intent to supply Class B ( max 14 years) Possession with 700 725 473 252 0 325 326 248 78 0 intent to supply Class C (max 14 years) Possession with 53 60 13 47 * 50 58 23 35 * intent to supply Class unspecified Possession with 1,453 1,443 1050 393 0 2,343 2,307 1660 647 0 intent to supply Cannabis (max 14 years) 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed fortwoor more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 3 Sentenced may exceed those found guilty as it may be the case that a defendant found guilty, and committed for sentence at the Crown court, may be sentenced in the following year. 4 Cannabis was re-classified to a class B drug on 26 January 2009 * Not applicable Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice.

Legal Aid: Education based in the UK to publish details of any payments they make to foreign governments. [59799] Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gauke: I have been asked to reply. Justice what recent representations he has made on his proposals for legal aid for legal help and advice on As the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. education matters; what response he has made to such Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), made representations; and if he will make a statement. [59835] clear following the G20 Finance Minister’s meeting in February 2011, the Government believe that development Mr Djanogly: The Government recently conducted a of new rules to require oil, gas and mining companies consultation on proposals for the reform of legal aid in to report the payments they make to governments should England and Wales, which closed on 14 February 2011. take place at the international level. We proposed that all education matters be removed The Government have committed to arguing for a from scope. We took the view that education issues are European agreement that matches the new standards generally of less importance to the individual than cases set in the US, and the UK will be engaging with EU concerning an individual’s immediate physical safety or partners on this issue. liberty, and therefore proposed that funding does not Prison Sentences continue, other than for discrimination education matters that are currently within the scope of the scheme. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice We are currently considering the responses to the how many offenders have served an indeterminate consultation and will publish our response in due course. sentence for public protection and been released (a) in total and (b) in respect of each offence; and what Payments: Natural Resources length of time was spent in prison in each case where an offender has been released from prison. [59444] Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Blunt: The data record that the total number of Justice if he will bring forward legislative proposals to prisoners released from an indeterminate sentence of make it compulsory for oil, mining and gas companies imprisonment for public protection between 2006 and 843W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 844W

2010 was 202. These data were published in the Offender and two-thirds, (iii) between two-thirds and three- Management Statistics 2010 tables on the Ministry of quarters, (iv) between 75 per cent. and 80 per cent., Justice website in April 2011. (v) between 80 per cent. and 85 per cent., (vi) between 85 per cent. and 90 per cent., (vii) between 90 per cent. Average time served and 95 per cent., (viii) between 95 per cent. and 100 per Releases (years) cent. and (ix) 100 per cent. of their sentence in each of 2006 3 1 the last 10 years. [59447] 2007 13 2 2008 36 2 Mr Blunt: Under a determinate sentence of 12 months 2009 53 3 or more imposed under the Criminal Justice Act 2003 2010 91 4 (for offences committed after 4 April 2005) the legislation requires that prisoners must be released automatically The number of releases by offence group in 2010 is at the half way point with the rest of the sentence served shown in the following table: on licence in the community and subject to recall to prison. If recalled to prison, the offender may serve Releases some or all of the rest of his sentence in custody. Violence against the person 46 For some, lower risk offenders serving sentences of Sexual offences 14 less than four years, release may be granted at the Robbery 25 discretion of the prison governor earlier than the half-way Other 12 point on Home Detention Curfew (HDC), where the Total 97 offender is subject to an electronically monitored curfew (or ″tagging″). All registered sex offenders and violent Detailed data on offences before 2010 are not held offenders serving extended sentences are excluded from centrally in an electronic format. A manual trawl of HDC, and prisoners who are eligible to be considered prisoner files would be required to obtain these data; must pass an individual risk assessment before HDC this would incur disproportionate cost. may be granted. These figures have been drawn from administrative Offenders convicted of serious violent or sexual offences IT systems which, as with any large scale recording committed before 4 April 2005 and subject to a sentence system, are subject to possible errors with data entry of four years or more remain subject to the provisions and processing. of the Criminal Justice Act 1991. Under such a determinate sentence the offender may be released between the half Prisoners’ Release way and two-thirds point of the sentence by the Parole Board, with release automatic at the two thirds point. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Once released, the offender is on licence and subject to (1) how many and what proportion of those convicted recall to prison up to the three quarters point of the of (a) rape, (b) sexual offences and (c) violent sentence. offences have been recalled to prison after being Adults serving a determinate sentence of less than released on licence in each of the last 10 years; [59430] 12 months serve half the sentence in custody and are (2) how many people convicted of sexual offences then ’at risk’ for the remainder of their sentence, which against children are on licence; and how many such means that if they commit a further offence during this offenders were released on licence in each of the last 10 period they may have to serve the outstanding part of years; [59431] the sentence. However, offenders aged 18 to 21 who are subject to a sentence of Detention in a Young Offender (3) how many persons convicted of (a) rape, (b) Institution (DYOI) of less than 12 months are subject sexual offences against children, (c) other sexual to a minimum period of three months supervision offences and (d) a violent offence were released from following release from custody. prison after serving custodial sentences of (i) less than one year, (ii) between one and two years, (iii) between Offenders may be detained in custody beyond the two and three years, (iv) between three and four years, automatic release date if they are subject to added days (v) between four and five years, (vi) between five and imposed under disciplinary proceedings for behaviour six years, (vii) between six and seven years, (viii) in prison. between seven and eight years, (ix) between eight and Under an indeterminate sentence, the offender must nine years, (x) between nine and 10 years, (xi) between serve in full the minimum term imposed by the court 10 and 11 years, (xii) between 11 and 12 years, (xiii) before being considered for release by the Parole Board. between 12 and 15 years, (xiv) between 15 and 20 years If and when the offender is released he or she is subject and (xv) over 20 years in each of the last 10 years; to licence conditions and recall to prison. If the offender [59445] is serving a sentence of imprisonment for public protection (4) how many persons convicted of (a) rape, (b) the licence period is a minimum often years. The licence sexual offences and (c) violent offences are released on period under a life sentence lasts for the whole of the licence; and how many were released on licence in each offender’s natural life. of the last 10 years; [59446] Young people sentenced to detention and training (5) how many and what proportion of persons orders serve the first half of their sentence in custody convicted of (a) rape, (b) sexual offences against and the second half in the community. Early release children, (c) other sexual offences and (d) a violent allows those young people who meet the criteria to be offence were released from prison having been in released from custody either one or two months earlier custody (i) less than 50 per cent., (ii) between one-half than their mid point date, depending on the length of 845W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 846W their sentence. The early release scheme is available to to this level of detail). Again sexual offences against young people serving a DTO, of between eight and 24 children will be included in the other sexual offences months in length. On release, it is a mandatory requirement group. for the young person to be electronically monitored for The third table shows the proportion of time served the period when they would otherwise have been in by offenders discharged from determinate sentences for custody; until the midpoint. There is a presumption (a) rape, (b) other sexual offences, and (c) violence that all young people will be released early unless they against the person offences in each year from 2001-10 are serving a sentence for specific sexual or violent (except 2009 where the data is not available to this level offences, or their behaviour and/or progress against of detail). All those serving two-thirds or more of their their training plan is unsatisfactory. sentence have been grouped together because their time Young people aged 10-17 convicted of certain serious served will include time on recall. offences serve the first half of their sentence in custody The fourth table shows the number of offenders up and the second part in the community, subject to recalled to custody in 2009 and 2010 who had originally supervision requirements. Young people serving terms been convicted of (a) rape, (b) other sexual offences, of between three months and four years may be eligible and (c) violence against the person offences. The equivalent for earlier release under a home detention curfew, which data for earlier years is not held centrally. The number operates in a similar way to the adult scheme. of recalls in a given year should not be compared with The first table shows the number of prisoners released the number of discharges in that year, because offenders from determinate sentences for (a) rape, (b) other will not necessarily be released and recalled in the same sexual offences, and (c) violence against the person year. offences, by detailed sentence length band in each year Accessible electronic data on offences are incomplete from 2001-10 (except 2009 where the data is not available for recalls before 2009. Offence data are contained to this level of detail). From the data held centrally, it is within individual prisoner files. However, a manual not possible to separately identify those offenders convicted trawl of each prisoner’s record for each year would of sexual offences against children; they are included substantially exceed cost limits. with other sexual offences. The second table shows the number of prisoners Figures in all tables are all those aged 15 and over. released from prison and subject to supervision in the These figures have been drawn from administrative community for (a) rape, (b) other sexual offences, and IT systems which, as with any large scale recording (c) violence against the person offences in each year system, are subject to possible errors with data entry from 2001-10 (except 2009 where the data is not available and processing.

Table 1: Prisoners discharged from determinate sentences for rape, other sexual offences and violence against the person, England and Wales, 2001-10 2001 2002 2003 Violence Violence Violence Other against Other against Other against sexual the sexual the sexual the Rape offences person Rape offences person Rape offences person

Total 490 1,644 12,511 532 1,635 12,952 517 1,570 12,804 Less than one year 7 399 7,581 5 356 7,507 7 312 7,257 1 years to less than 2 years 12 403 2,204 8 381 2,558 14 414 2,517 2 years to less than 3 years 11 228 967 14 273 1,093 10 253 1,122 3 years to less than 4 years 28 200 661 45 192 747 30 229 814 4 years to less than 5 years 48 151 388 50 160 378 34 133 405 5 years to less than 6 years 70 86 272 62 98 249 65 79 249 6 years to less than 7 years 79 60 161 85 62 145 80 55 169 7 years to less than 8 years 75 50 93 70 40 104 68 38 92 8 years to less than 9 years 52 30 67 76 32 54 65 20 51 9 years to less than 10 years 30 13 27 35 10 29 48 10 30 10 years to less than 11 years 35 13 43 38 19 35 41 20 42 11 years to less than 12 years 12 2 9 13 2 9 14 3 7 12 years to less than 15 years 26 9 23 28 10 28 33 3 36 15 years to less than 20 years 4 0 10 3 0 13 7 1 12 20 years to less than life 105003101

2004 2005 2006 Violence Violence Violence Other against Other against Other against sexual the sexual the sexual the Rape offences person Rape offences person Rape offences person

Total 553 1,629 14,321 572 1,583 15,555 515 1,569 15,612 Less than one year 6 359 8,627 7 313 9,389 16 297 9,750 1 years to less than 2 years 12 404 2,482 14 370 2,659 12 384 2,592 847W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 848W

2004 2005 2006 Violence Violence Violence Other against Other against Other against sexual the sexual the sexual the Rape offences person Rape offences person Rape offences person

2 years to less than 3 years 11 233 1,112 20 286 1,261 19 272 1,173 3 years to less than 4 years 21 218 830 30 233 903 53 246 917 4 years to less than 5 years 48 138 470 42 148 537 46 154 448 5 years to less than 6 years 55 82 324 65 82 286 48 68 315 6 years to less than 7 years 87 68 164 78 51 204 77 46 171 7 years to less than 8 years 62 47 112 68 41 112 52 38 92 8 years to less than 9 years 79 35 70 55 21 60 57 22 57 9 years to less than 10 years 48 11 26 47 14 28 34 8 22 10 years to less than 11 years 46 17 42 54 10 40 47 20 35 11 years to less than 12 years 12 6 9 16 1 10 9 4 7 12 years to less than 15 years 56 9 38 65 12 44 38 7 26 15 years to less than 20 years 8 2 9 11 1 18 7 3 7 20 years to less than life 206004000

2007 2008 2010 Violence Violence Violence Other against Other against Other against sexual the sexual the sexual the Rape offences person Rape offences person Rape offences person

Total 609 1,569 16,633 656 1,687 19,123 763 1,677 19,051 Less than one year 11 272 10,336 12 316 12,117 12 266 10,647 1 years to less than 2 years 15 350 2,726 9 397 3,086 12 388 3,686 2 years to less than 3 years 25 269 1,203 21 289 1,381 19 336 1,762 3 years to less than 4 years 38 233 825 43 255 830 39 235 1,046 4 years to less than 5 years 54 165 571 60 158 542 80 179 682 5 years to less than 6 years 72 102 436 90 83 490 93 100 488 6 years to less than 7 years 74 57 201 81 79 281 87 68 229 7 years to less than 8 years 63 41 143 71 38 164 83 35 138 8 years to less than 9 years 65 32 78 71 29 98 124 29 150 9 years to less than 10 years 55 11 30 43 11 38 59 11 81 10 years to less than 11 years 59 16 38 69 13 41 69 15 57 11 years to less than 12 years 17 5 6 20 5 12 18 0 23 12 years to less than 15 years 52 12 29 51 10 31 52 10 38 15 years to less than 20 years 9 4 9 14 4 11 13 4 21 20 years to less than life 002101313

Table2: Prisoners discharged from determinate sentences on licence for Table2: Prisoners discharged from determinate sentences on licence for rape, other sexual offences and violence against the person, England rape, other sexual offences and violence against the person, England and Wales, 2001-10 and Wales, 2001-10 Violence Violence Other sexual against the Other sexual against the Rape offences person Rape offences person 2001 485 1,282 6,936 2006 504 1,296 8,014 2002 530 1,330 7,260 2007 601 1,327 8,600 2003 511 1,293 7,213 2004 548 1,317 7,540 2008 645 1,405 9,622 2005 568 1,305 8,265 2010 769 1,466 10,888

Table 3: Percentage of time served (including remand) in prison by prisoners discharged from determinate sentences for rape, other sexual offences and violence against the person, England and Wales 2001 2002 2003 Other Violence Other Violence Other Violence sexual against sexual against sexual against Rape offences the person Rape offences the person Rape offences the person

Total 406 1,424 10,484 442 1,422 11,026 434 1,360 10,840 Less than 501 15 233 5,827 9 230 6,638 10 195 6,677 50 to less than 2/3 294 1,058 3,899 352 1,090 3,702 330 1,066 3,604 849W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 850W

Table 3: Percentage of time served (including remand) in prison by prisoners discharged from determinate sentences for rape, other sexual offences and violence against the person, England and Wales 2001 2002 2003 Other Violence Other Violence Other Violence sexual against sexual against sexual against Rape offences the person Rape offences the person Rape offences the person

2/3 or more 97 133 758 81 102 686 94 99 559

2004 2005 2006 Other Violence Other Violence Other Violence sexual against sexual against sexual against Rape offences the person Rape offences the person Rape offences the person

Total 443 1,400 12,049 554 1,560 15,034 506 1,539 15,088 Less than 501 7 236 7,069 12 197 7,367 11 164 6,502 50 to less than 2/3 377 1,053 4,287 373 1,089 5,159 333 1,103 5,612 2/3 or more 59 111 693 169 274 2,508 162 272 2,974

2007 2008 2010 Other Violence Other Violence Other Violence sexual against sexual against sexual against Rape offences the person Rape offences the person Rape offences the person

Total 596 1,538 16,078 636 1,654 18,539 740 1,597 16,960 Less than 501 16 121 6,887 30 181 8,145 86 162 6,520 50 to less than 2/3 376 1,105 5,931 416 1,156 7,119 476 1,163 8,105 2/3 or more 204 312 3,260 190 317 3,275 178 272 2,335 1 This includes cases where prisoners were deported or where the prisoner was discharged on the Friday before a weekend release date. Note: All those serving two-thirds or more of their sentence have been grouped together because their time served will include time on recall.

Table 4: Number of offenders recalled to custody in 2009 and 2010 for There is no specific reference to information previously rape, other sexual offences and violence against the person, England known to the employee within the MOJ confidentiality and Wales agreement. 2009 2010

Rape 226 224 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Other sexual 482 507 for Justice what assessment he has made of the effects offences on the role of union representatives for probation staff Violence against 3,109 3,248 of signing confidentiality clauses in respect of the the person tendering for unpaid work in England and Wales. [59403] Probation: Unpaid Work

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Blunt: All bidding organisations are required to for Justice what assessment he has made of the complete the same confidentiality undertaking. It is for arrangements for the disclosing party in respect of the bidder to assess and manage the implications of this probation staff to sign confidentiality clauses in respect for staff. of the tendering for unpaid work in England and Wales. [59401] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice for what reasons it is proposed that Mr Blunt: All MOJ procurement competitions require confidentiality clauses in respect of the tendering for the same confidentiality undertaking to be completed unpaid work in England and Wales should last for two by bidders. Probation trusts have NDPB status and are years. [59404] responsible for internal management and assessment of processes involved as a bidder. Mr Blunt: The normal statutory provisions shall apply to the release of information to tenderers none of which Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State contain a two year limitation. All information which is for Justice what definition of information previously not already a matter of public knowledge including known to the employee he proposes to use for written and oral information is subject to a confidentiality probation staff required to sign confidentiality clauses clause and this undertaking will continue to apply at all in respect of the tendering for unpaid work in England times in the future. and Wales. [59402]

Mr Blunt: The bidder is required to respond with an Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for overall undertaking as an organisation tendering for the Justice for what reasons probation trusts have been service. The detail surrounding management of employee’s grouped together for the purpose of tendering for within that organisation sits with the probation trust. unpaid work in England and Wales. [59695] 851W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 852W

Mr Blunt: Six ’competition lots’ have been constructed Mr Blunt: A total of 277 applications for funding to cover England and Wales. This reflects the decision from the Victim and Witness General Fund were received to compete Community Payback at a national level from 256 voluntary sector organisations. rather than at the level of the 35 trusts to maximise The information provided in this answer does not economies of scale and promote innovative delivery include funding to organisations from either the Homicide models. A number of different options for the design of Fund or the Rape Support fund. There were separate the lots were considered. The final design has achieved exercises through which funding was awarded from balanced lots in terms of volumes, they do not cut these funds. across existing probation trust boundaries and do not give advantage to any provider. Successful applications There were 114 successful applications to the General Reoffenders Fund from 110 organisations. Of these, there are 104 organisations to which grants have been awarded and with which the agreement between the organisation and Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State the Ministry of Justice has been signed. Details are for Justice what powers a private sector operator of the provided in the following tables. contract for unpaid work in England and Wales will have in relation to offenders who re-offend whilst on There are a further six organisations which have been placement. [59400] awarded grants in principle but with which discussions continue and in respect of which it is therefore not yet Mr Blunt: A private sector provider of Community possible to provide details. Payback (like a probation trust) would have no specific Antisocial behaviour powers in relation to offenders who reoffend while on £ placement. Any suspected offence committed on a work 3 year funding: placement would be reported to the police. Organisation sought approved As a provider of probation services appointed by the Secretary of State for Justice private sector providers of Restorative Solutions 147,000 147,000 Community Payback would have the same powers in Light for Life 142,984 142,984 relation to the enforcement and breach of community Voluntary Action NE Lincs 67,680 67,680 and suspended sentence orders as a probation trust. The Riverside Group 129,511 129,511 The Safer Luton Partnership 105,000 105,000

Shoplifting: Fixed Penalties Domestic violence £ Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for 3 year funding: Justice what progress he has made in his consideration Organisation sought approved of fixed penalty notices for shoplifting offences; and if Acorns (North Tyneside) 100,767 100,767 he will make a statement. [59546] Refuge 313,169 313,169 Mr Blunt: Penalty notices for disorder (PNDs) are Nottingham Women’s Aid 103,460 103,460 available to the police to deal quickly and effectively My Sister’s Place 122,667 122,667 with low-level, antisocial and nuisance offending, including Women’s Aid Integrated Services 186,445 186,445 minor instances of retail theft. The scheme allows the (WAIS) police to spend more time on frontline duties and Crime Reduction Initiatives (CRI) 330,461 106,887 provides an alternative to prosecution in appropriate Domestic Violence Services 290,800 290,800 cases. (Keighley) Domestic Abuse Safety Unit 90,000 90,000 Before PNDs were introduced, many low-level instances East Surrey Domestic Abuse 121,428 121,428 of retail theft went unpunished or received just a verbal Services warning. PNDs ensure that retail theft is given the Early Interventions and 120,000 120,000 priority that it deserves in terms of punishing offenders Protection Services immediately and protecting consumers and businesses. Birmingham and Solihull 120,575 120,575 On 7 December 2010 we published the Green Paper, Women’s Aid “Breaking the Cycle: Effective punishment, rehabilitation Citizen’s Advice Maidstone 90,000 90,000 and sentencing of offenders”. This included a proposal The Nia Project - Hackney 129,668 129,668 to create a clearer national framework for the use of Domestic Violence and Abuse 339,381 339,381 out-of-court disposals, of which the PND scheme is a Service (South and West Devon) part. The consultation period finished on 4 March and North Derbyshire Women’s Aid 95,715 95,715 we are considering the comments received. We will Southampton Women’s Aid 96,000 96,000 publish a formal Government response shortly. Stonham Housing 100,872 100,872 Womans Trust 142,230 142,230 Victims and Witnesses General Fund Leeway Domestic Violence and 99,904 99,904 Abuse Services (Norfolk) RISE 122,506 122,506 Heidi Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for BCHA 216,805 216,805 Justice which organisations applied for funding from Sandwell Women’s Aid 110,415 110,415 the Victims and Witnesses General Fund (2011-14); Survive (Bristol) 134,449 134,449 how much funding each organisation applied for; and The Novas Scarman Group 108,517 108,517 how much each organisation was granted. [59665] 853W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 854W

Domestic violence Non specific crime £ £ 3 year funding: Organisation sought approved 3 year funding:

Safer Merthyr Tydfil 67,382 67,382 Organisation sought approved Oasis Domestic Violence Service 117,788 117,788 Wrexham Women’s Aid 138,639 138,639 Galop 112,630 112,630 Advance 60,000 60,000 Victim Support (Lewisham) 98,909 98,909 North Nottinghamshire 108,827 108,827 Independent Domestic Abuse Victim Support (Sussex) 120,000 120,000 Services (NNIDAS) Arch (North Staffs) 114,167 114,167 Robbery and burglary Victim Support (South Devon) 124,200 124,200 £ 3 year funding: Atal-y-Fro 123,774 123,774 Organisation sought approved Lighthouse Women’s Aid 372,081 372,081 Bedfordshire Police Partnership Trust 289,552 75,000 Hate crime Fresh Horizons 381,476 75,000 £ Cambridgeshire Police Shrievalty Trust 139,376 75,000 3 year funding: West Herts Against Crime 266,055 75,000 Organisation sought approved Norfolk PACT 129,796 75,000 The Metro Centre 88,500 88,500 Road traffic crime Dial House (Chester) 23,130 23,130 £ Society for the Promotion and 89,696 89,696 Advancement of Romany 3 year funding: Culture (SPARC) Organisation sought approved Pakistani Resource Centre 84,740 84,740 Aftermath Support 83,683 83,683 Milton Keynes Equality Council 173,700 173,700 Brake (Literature) 124,725 124,725 Lesbian and Gay Foundation 76,148 59,000 Brake (Helpline) 203,166 203,166 Joint Association of Nissa (JAN) 137,536 137,536 Road Victims Trust 167,244 167,244 Trust RoadPeace 242,825 242,825 Ipswich and Suffolk Council for 386,400 386,400 Racial Equality Sexual violence Support Against Racist Incidents 226,095 89,025 £ (SARI) 3 year funding: Stoke on Trent Citizen’s Advice 65,966 65,966 Bureaux Organisation sought approved Lancashire Disability 105,412 105,412 Women’s Support Network 87,278 87,278 Information Federation Rotherham Women’s Counselling 149,118 149,118 VOICE UK 163,556 163,556 Service Stop Hate UK 64,440 64,440 Survivors UK 192,184 192,184 Bede House Association 156,152 156,152 The Birchall Trust 90,783 90,783 Brighton and Hove Impetus 88,961 88,961 South Essex Rape and Incest Crisis 140,472 140,472 Community Security Trust 179,750 147,000 Centre Galop 133,126 133,126 Safe and Sound Derby 242,484 242,484 Rape and Sexual Abuse Support 110,998 110,998 Homicide Centre (Cheshire and Merseyside) £ Twelve’s Company 213,145 213,145 3 year funding: National Society for the Prevention of 523,575 523,575 Organisation sought approved Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) Rape and Sexual Abuse Counselling 109,409 109,409 Advocacy After Fatal Domestic Abuse 93,594 120,823 Centre (Darlington and County (AAFDA) Durham) Assistance Support and Self Help in 60,000 60,000 First Step 110,959 110,959 Surviving Trauma (ASSIST) The Green House (Bristol) 72,626 72,626 1 Agreed for one year only. Non specific crime Safeline (Warwick) 176,106 176,106 £ Incest and Sexual Abuse Survivors 325,196 175,128 3 year funding: Karma Nirvana 272,101 265,977 Organisation sought approved Kinergy 155,755 155,755 Rugby RoSA 211,386 211,386 Luton All Women’s Centre 133,404 133,404 Worcestershire Rape and Sexual 137,228 137,228 The Streetlife Trust 107,251 107,251 Abuse Support Centre Rubicon Cares 84,831 84,831 Eva Women’s Aid 135,088 135,088 Greater Manchester High Sheriff’s Police 71,500 71,500 Rape and Sexual Abuse Helpline 85,151 85,151 Trust Crisis Point 277,499 142,499 Safe! 54,031 54,031 Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre 124,303 109,303 The Angelou Centre 166,624 166,624 (Liverpool) 855W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 856W

Sexual violence Domestic violence £ £ 3 year funding: Organisation 3 year funding sought Organisation sought approved

Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre 160,154 160,154 Leeway Domestic Violence and Abuse 107,380 (Sefton) Services (Suffolk) Safety Net Advice and Support 92,378 92,378 Hate crime Centre £ Coventry Rape and Sexual Abuse 295,793 295,793 Centre Organisation 3 year funding sought Axis Counselling 147,178 141,532 Hart Gable 126,405 Derbyshire Rape Crisis 172,635 172,635 Disability Equality (NW) Ltd 276,675 Sexual and Domestic Abuse and Rape 199,635 160,583 Preston and Western Lancashire Racial 178,980 Advice Centre (Burton and District) Equality Council Respond 166,943 166,943 Race Equality Sandwell 67,940 Rape Crisis (Wycombe, Chiltern and 112,943 112,943 Somerset Race Equality Council 190,920 South Buckinghamshire) Victim First 214,131 Nottingham Rape Crisis Centre 141,828 141,828 The Monitoring Group 512,263 Southampton Rape Crisis and Sexual 149,619 149,619 Preston Muslim Forum 74,125 Abuse Counselling Service Race Equality First 90,510 Oldham Race Equality Partnership 274,746 Plymouth and Devon Racial Equality 250,265 Unsuccessful applications Council London Action Trust 361,000 Details of unsuccessful applications are provided in Gay Advice Darlington 108,657 the following tables. Birmingham Race Action Monitoring Unit 156,000 Antisocial behaviour (BRAMU) £ Inclusion North 167,145 Organisation 3 year funding sought Furness Multicultural Community Forum 83,550 Tendring and Colchester Minority Ethnic 193,775 Preston and South Ribble (North) Street 36,000 Partnership Pastors Disability Cornwall 146,555 Britannia Economical Support Trust 250,000 Pukar Disability Resource Centre 111,527 Halton Housing Trust 549,501 South East Wales Racial Equality Council 371,893 Involve Northwest 205,802 Platform 51 243,343 Integritas Advocacy 48,666 Disability Action Waltham Forest 398,395 Preston Community Network 95,242 Norwich and Norfolk Racial Equality 350,000 Advance Housing and Support 331,500 Council Big Ideas Trust 129,000 Torfaen People’s First 134,675 African Refugee Women ’Nzoto Ya Nkolo’ 90,000 Manchester Sudanese Tree Development 79,300 Volunteer Centre Blackpool Wyre and 125,906 Community Fylde Warwickshire Race Equality Partnership 137,800 Developing Initiatives for Support in the 217,669 British Afghan Women’s Society 45,000 Community Sahara Project Preston 127,749 Swansea Council for Voluntary Services 232,500 Peterborough Racial Equality Council 164,324 Victim Support 2,669,954 Specialist Mediation in Lancashire East 114,840 Victim Support 120,494 Victim Support 1,289,250 Rights and Equalities Newham 153,000 Dare to Care 299,610 Domestic violence WECIL ltd 321,138 £ Step Forward (Tower Hamlets) 189,335 Organisation 3 year funding sought Anthony Walker Foundation 0 Gender Identity Research and Education 60,160 Cymdeithas Tai Eryri 241,908 Society Chorley and South Ribble Council for 49,063 VOICE UK and Victim Support 610,439 Voluntary Services North Liverpool Citizen’s Advice Bureau 59,732 Homicide Victim Support 120,000 £ Relate Coventry 77,309 Organisation 3 year funding sought Public Help Desk 115,992 National Victims’ Association 108,761 Plymouth Citizen’s Advice Bureau 213,272 Mothers Against Murder and Aggression 278,909 Dacorum Women’s Aid 180,192 (MAMAA) Women’s Centre 110,115 Support After Murder and Manslaughter 460,583 Innovative Vision Organisation 93,600 (National) The Church of England Children’s Society 141,519 Lucie Blackman Trust 231,900 South Tyneside Council for Voluntary 60,000 Support After Murder and Manslaughter 94,400 Service (Merseyside) 857W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 858W

Homicide Sexual violence £ £ Organisation 3 year funding sought Organisation 3 year funding sought Nottingham Women’s Counselling 131,000 Service Through Unity 116,215 Child Victims of Crime 36,240 Non-specific crime SALT South West 48,052 £ Womankind, Bristol Women’s Therapy 140,104 Organisation 3 year funding sought Centre Survivors Helping Each Other 137,691 New Horizons Counselling Service 140,000 The Nia Project (East London) 110,968 Liberty from Addiction 85,118 Manchester Rape Crisis 114,473 The Relationship Centre 111,064 The Lantern Project 104,700 Peterborough Citizen’s Advice Bureau 155,094 Survive (Survivors of Sexual Abuse in 62,620 London Irish Women’s Centre 141,393 North Yorkshire) Catch22 247,500 Survivors (Hull and East Riding) 240,420 North Wales Women’s Centre 103,884 Barnardos (Wales) 727,932 Breckfield and North Everton 342,240 Rape and Sexual Abuse Support Centre 100,776 Neighbourhood Council (Guildford) Remedi 692,015 The NIA Project - Haringey 129,668 Bournemouth People First 157,051 West Mercia Rape and Sexual Abuse 178,040 Women’s Enterprising Breakthrough 379,509 Support Centre Southwark Law centre 148,685 Supportline 37,000 Women’s Enterprising Breakthrough 205,460 The Margaret Jackson Trust 100,121 South Liverpool Regeneration 127,160 MOSAC 129,423 Horton Housing 720,709 Southall Black Sisters 151,614 Gwent Bobby Van Trust 194,220 SEREN 121,979 Church of England Children’s Society 735,566 Coalition for the Removal of Pimping 262,519 (CROP) No Limits (Southampton) 161,508 New Pathways 255,717 Southwark Neighbour Dispute 215,128 Mediation Scheme Mothers4Mothers 371,160 Mentor Achieve Leam Support 60,000 Sheffield Rape and Sexual Abuse 154,417 Counselling Service New Choices for Youth 213,194 Birmingham Rape and Sexual Violence 419,626 Bridge Chapel Centre 46,800 Project Compass 90,000 New Pathways 129,576 Human Relations Network 83,700 GROW 263,123 Platform 51 243,813 New Pathways 52,106 Cobalt Housing Association 500,000 Doncaster Rape and Sexual Abuse 136,837 Charlton Athletic Community Trust 165,320 Counselling Service Amber Training Advisory Support 321,000 Aurora Health Foundation 128,280 Service Brighton Women’s Centre 161,663 Consortico 238,864 Someone Cares 94,215 Network for Surviving Stalking 71,810 Revival Support Services 176,389 Road traffic One25 197,100 £ Eaves Housing for Women 124,711 Organisation 3 year funding sought Blackpool Advocacy 160,500 Barnardos 1,305,254 Support and Care After Road Death and 80,000 Rotunda Ltd 151,076 Injury Rape and Sexual Abuse Support Centre 135,000 Robbery and burglary (Croydon) £ The Survivors Trust 117,915 Organisation 3 year funding sought Savana 141,862 Women’s Rape and Sexual Abuse 121,000 CASAC Leeds 2,483,500 Centre (Cornwall) Victim Support 600,000 Sexual Abuse and Incest Line (SAIL) 84,544 Wigan Citizen’s Advice Service 160,420 Rape Crisis (Wycombe, Chiltern and 112,844 Victim Support 859,938 South Buckinghamshire) Respond 112,425 Sexual violence One in Four 284,891 £ West Cumbria Rape Crisis 120,568 Organisation 3 year funding sought East Kent Rape Line 119,601 Walsall Street Teams 93,424 The Foxton Centre 53,330 AIM Project 198,500 Clinic for Boundaries Studies 92,833 CIS’ters 150,000 (Professional Boundaries) Survivors Manchester 201,422 Family Matters 256,291 859W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 860W

Violent crime Tim Loughton: The Department for Education has £ not made its own assessment. However I am pleased Organisation 3 year funding sought that as part of the Department’s Voluntaryand Community Sector grant announced on 25 February, the Department Barnardo’s (Liverpool) 428,332 is awarding around £10 million over the two years Safe n Sound Youth Project 344,742 2011-12 and 2012-13 to help 17 voluntary organisations Victim Support 155,000 tackle the child protection and safeguarding needs of children and young people. This grant is one of a range of funding streams from the Department to the voluntary sector, including a new grant agreement announced on EDUCATION 15 February 2011 to support NSPCC with £11.2 million Child Protection Review between 2011-15 for continued investment in ChildLine and the NSPCC HelpLine. Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what estimate he has made of the cost of implementing Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education the recommendations of the Munro Report. [59823] what assessment he has made of the effects on the effectiveness of child protection of reductions in local Tim Loughton: The final report of Professor Munro’s authority budgets. [59830] review of child protection reflects months of careful work and extensive consultation. Her recommendations Tim Loughton: It is for local authorities to determine are wide-ranging. It is important that we consider carefully, the allocation of their resources and I am sure that in with professionals themselves, how best to respond in doing so they will be taking into account both their order to bring about the sustainable, long-term reform statutory responsibilities and the needs of the most needed. vulnerable children and young people. The Department I have therefore established an implementation working for Education has not made its own assessment, but I group with key individuals from the social work profession, am aware of the research that has been carried out by local government, health, police, justice, education and other organisations. I am pleased that this research the voluntary sector. This group met for the first time suggests that in making difficult decisions, most local on 25 May and will work with us to develop a response authorities are taking steps to protect the most vulnerable to Professor Munro’s report by the summer, informed children. by their collective expertise and by the experience from the local authorities which are trialling more flexible Children’s Centres approaches. In developing our response, we will consider the costs Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for of options for implementation as well as the benefits to Education whether community schools may use Sure be secured through, for example, reductions in unnecessary Start Children’s Centres to assist in the delivery of the bureaucracy and regulation. curriculum. [58762] The Government have already announced that the Children’s Workforce Development Council has been Mr Gibb: Community schools may use Sure Start remitted to spend a minimum of £43.9 million on the Children’s Centres to assist in the delivery of the curriculum. Social Work Improvement Fund in this financial year. The Government are keen for schools and others to use This is an increase on the £23 million distributed through their professional judgment to decide how to deliver the the Social Work Improvement Fund in 2010-11. curriculum to meet the needs of their pupils. Children’s centres play a valuable role in making Children: Day Care integrated services available for young children and Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Education their families, particularly for those in greatest need. how much each local authority allows in flexible free The Government want to retain a network of children’s entitlement grants to attend daycare nurseries in 2011-12. centres and are giving local authorities and schools greater flexibility to enable them to design services [58185] which meet the needs of local communities. Sarah Teather: Local authorities, in consultation with their Schools Forums, decide how best to distribute Classroom Assistants: Pay 3-16 funding across their locality. This includes setting funding rates to providers of free early education, including John Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for Education day care nurseries. Local authorities are required to (1) what guidance his Department has provided to report on financial expenditure through section 251 schools on the payment of salary increases to teaching returns. Data on individual local authority spend for assistants earning less than £21,000 per annum; [59610] 2011-12 is not yet available, but will be published later (2) what estimate he has made of the number of state in the year. schools which have not paid salary increases to the Children: Protection teaching assistants and technicians earning below £21,000 in 2011-12. [59609] Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what assessment he has made of the effects Mr Gibb: No such assessment has been made centrally. on the effectiveness of child protection of reductions in Central Government do not have a role in determining support from the public purse for the voluntary sector. salary, or salary increases for school support staff, [59829] including teaching assistants and technicians nor have 861W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 862W they provided guidance to schools in respect of the The Government does not require schools to provide payment of salary increases for any school support them with detailed information on pupils’ GCSE choices. staff. However, anecdotal evidence suggests that the English Matters related to school support staff pay are decided Baccalaureate measure is having a positive effect, with locally by the local authority for community and voluntary more schools making the combination of subjects open controlled schools and the governing body for foundation to more pupils. There are a range of information sources, and voluntary-aided schools. Salaries of school support from exam entries to workforce information, which will staff in academies are a matter for individual institutions. help us judge the impact of the English Baccalaureate. We will make full use of these in keeping the policy Crown Relocations under review. G4S Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many contracts his Department holds with Crown Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Relocations; and what the (a) purpose and (b) monetary how many contracts his Department holds with G4S; value of each such contract is. [58646] and what the (a) purpose and (b) monetary value of each such contract is. [58678] Tim Loughton: The Department for Education does not hold any current contracts for Crown Relocations. Tim Loughton: The Department for Education does Departmental Public Appointments not hold any current contracts with G4S. GCSE Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Education when he plans to publish the relevant financial and Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for non-financial interests of members of his Department’s Education what number and percentage of children independent review panels; and if he will make a statement. (a) receiving and (b) not receiving free school meals [58527] attained five grade A*-C GCSEs, including English and mathematics, excluding equivalents, in each local Tim Loughton: The Department does not collect this authority area in each year since 2001. [53964] information. The appointment of members to the Department’s independent review panels is based on Mr Gibb: The data requested for each year since their professional expertise. Before making the appointment, 2004/05 have been placed in the House Libraries. Ministers would consider the suitability of an appointee It is not possible to provide figures for 2000/01 to particularly where there may be a conflict of interest or 2003/04. The National Pupil Database only exists from if the appointment may have an adverse impact on the 2002/03 onwards, and for 2002/03 and 2003/04 information review. on whether a pupil achieved 5 A*-C grades including Any remuneration given to appointed panel members English and mathematics was not recorded in a readily for their roles on independent reviews is available on the accessible form. Generating that information can be Department’s website: produced only at disproportionate cost. http://www.education.gov.uk/inthenews GCSE: Reading Berkshire English Baccalaureate: GCSE Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for Education (1) how many pupils in each (a) school and Education what estimate he has made of the potential (b) local authority ward in Reading achieved five A*-C change in takeup of GCSE and A-level courses in each grades at GCSE including English and mathematics in subject attributable to the introduction of the English each year since 1997; [59648] Baccalaureate. [58816] (2) how many pupils in each (a) school and (b) local authority ward in Reading achieved five A* to C grades Mr Gibb: The effect of the English Baccalaureate will at GCSE in each year since 1997. [59709] depend on decisions taken by individual schools and pupils. It is one of a number of measures to ensure that Mr Gibb: The information requested for the years pupils are given the chance to take the qualifications 2005/06 to 2009/10 is shown in the following tables. that will best help them progress to further education Figures for previous years back to 1996/97 can be and employment. provided only at disproportionate cost.

Achievements at GCSE and equivalent for pupils1,2 at the end of key stage 4 by ward3 in Reading local authority— Years: 2005/06 to 2009/10—Coverage: Maintained schools (including Academies and CTCs)4

Number of pupils achieving 5+ A*-C Total number of Number of pupils grades including pupils at the end achieving 5+ A*-C English and maths of KS4 grades GCSEs

Church ward 2005/06 129 64 55

2006/07 109 49 42 863W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 864W

Achievements at GCSE and equivalent for pupils1,2 at the end of key stage 4 by ward3 in Reading local authority— Years: 2005/06 to 2009/10—Coverage: Maintained schools (including Academies and CTCs)4 Number of pupils achieving 5+ A*-C Total number of Number of pupils grades including pupils at the end achieving 5+ A*-C English and maths of KS4 grades GCSEs

2007/08 126 67 61 2008/09 131 62 48 2009/10 127 98 57

Katesgrove ward 2005/06 115 95 95 2006/07 103 93 93 2007/08 97 97 97 2008/09 95 5— 5— 2009/10 92 92 92

Norcot ward 2005/06 n/a n/a n/a 2006/07 n/a n/a n/a 2007/08 10 0 0 2008/09 n/a n/a n/a 2009/10 n/a n/a n/a

Redlands ward 2005/06 133 124 124 2006/07 132 125 125 2007/08 136 123 123 2008/09 138 124 124 2009/10 132 123 123

Southcote ward 2005/06 406 188 118 2006/07 439 229 139 2007/08 367 229 131 2008/09 335 232 118 2009/10 305 249 120

Thames ward 2005/06 164 79 74 2006/07 189 105 86 2007/08 183 99 93 2008/09 180 124 109 2009/10 225 146 117

Tilehurst ward 2005/06 n/a n/a n/a 2006/07 n/a n/a n/a 2007/08 n/a n/a n/a 2008/09 5— 5— 5— 2009/10 5— 5— 5—

Whitley ward 2005/06 78 25 11 2006/07 60 18 4 2007/08 72 34 17 2008/09 78 43 14 2009/10 100 58 28 n/a = Not applicable. 1 Pupils at the end of key stage 4 in each academic year. 2 In 2010 iGCSEs, accredited at time of publication, have been counted as GCSE equivalents and also as English and mathematics GCSEs. 3 Census Area Statistics (CAS) wards were created for 2001 Census outputs. The Department reports using the CAS Wards because they allow us to report ward level data on a consistent geographic basis. One of the weaknesses associated with reporting data using administrative wards is that the boundaries for administrative wards can change on a frequent basis. This makes it difficult to compare data at ward level over time. 4 School figures include all schools, whilst ward figures include maintained schools (including CTCs and academies) only. For this reason, data for some schools is not included in the ward table, and also pupil numbers in schools do not always sum up to the total number of pupils in the ward. 5 Figures not shown in order to protect confidentiality. Source: National Pupil Database (final data) 865W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 866W

Achievements at GCSE and equivalent for pupils1, 2 at the end of key stage 4 by school in Reading local authority— Years: 2005/06 to 2009/10—Coverage: All schools3 Number of pupils Total number of Number of achieving 5+ A*-C grades pupils at the end of pupils achieving including English and KS4 5+ A*-C grades maths GCSEs

Bulmershe and SWAAY School 2005/06 4 4— 4— Whitegates ward 2006/07 n/a n/a n/a 2007/08 n/a n/a n/a 2008/09 n/a n/a n/a 2009/10 n/a n/a n/a

Caversham ward Hemdean House School 2005/06 8 4— 4— 2006/07 19 18 16 2007/08 11 10 10 2008/09 12 9 9 2009/10 10 4— 4—

Church ward Leighton Park School 2005/06 80 76 68 2006/07 81 77 70 2007/08 94 92 87 2008/09 79 75 72 2009/10 71 68 64

Reading Girls’ School 2005/06 129 64 55 2006/07 109 49 42 2007/08 127 67 61 2008/09 131 62 48 2009/10 128 98 57

Katesgrove ward Kendrick Girls’ Grammar School 2005/06 95 95 95 2006/07 94 93 93 2007/08 n/a n/a n/a 2008/09 n/a n/a n/a 2009/10 n/a n/a n/a

Kendrick School 2005/06 n/a n/a n/a 2006/07 n/a n/a n/a 2007/08 97 97 97 2008/09 95 94 94 2009/10 92 92 92

Redlands ward Phoenix College 2005/06 9 4— 4— 2006/07 7 4— 4— 2007/08 13 0 0 2008/09 14 0 0 2009/10 9 4— 4—

Reading School 2005/06 124 124 124 2006/07 125 125 125 2007/08 123 123 123 2008/09 124 124 124 2009/10 123 123 123

St Joseph’s Convent School 2005/06 35 34 31 2006/07 36 35 35 2007/08 29 27 26 2008/09 18 25 25 867W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 868W

Achievements at GCSE and equivalent for pupils1, 2 at the end of key stage 4 by school in Reading local authority— Years: 2005/06 to 2009/10—Coverage: All schools3 Number of pupils Total number of Number of achieving 5+ A*-C grades pupils at the end of pupils achieving including English and KS4 5+ A*-C grades maths GCSEs

2009/10 n/a n/a n/a

St Joseph’s College 2005/06 n/a n/a n/a 2006/07 n/a n/a n/a 2007/08 n/a n/a n/a 2008/09 n/a n/a n/a 2009/10 33 33 32

The Abbey School Reading 2005/06 100 100 100 2006/07 104 104 104 2007/08 105 105 105 2008/09 97 96 96 2009/10 109 109 109

Southcote ward Blessed Hugh Faringdon Catholic School 2005/06 143 75 54 2006/07 149 68 44 2007/08 140 71 47 2008/09 136 83 46 2009/10 127 102 43

The Elvian School 2005/06 25 18 18 2006/07 20 17 2 2007/08 30 19 17 2008/09 21 18 15 2009/10 n/a n/a n/a

Prospect College 2005/06 263 113 64 2006/07 n/a n/a n/a 2007/08 n/a n/a n/a 2008/09 n/a n/a n/a 2009/10 n/a n/a n/a

Prospect School 2005/06 n/a n/a n/a 2006/07 292 161 95 2007/08 230 158 84 2008/09 201 149 72 2009/10 181 147 77

Thames ward Highdown School and Sixth Form Centre 2005/06 163 79 74 2006/07 189 105 86 2007/08 183 99 93 2008/09 180 124 109 2009/10 225 146 117

Queen Anne’s School 2005/06 65 65 63 2006/07 54 52 9 2007/08 51 51 0 2008/09 35 36 0 2009/10 53 51 0

Tilehurst ward The Avenue School 2005/06 20 0 0 2006/07 9 4— 4— 869W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 870W

Achievements at GCSE and equivalent for pupils1, 2 at the end of key stage 4 by school in Reading local authority— Years: 2005/06 to 2009/10—Coverage: All schools3 Number of pupils Total number of Number of achieving 5+ A*-C grades pupils at the end of pupils achieving including English and KS4 5+ A*-C grades maths GCSEs

2007/08 10 4— 4— 2008/09 4— 4— 4— 2009/10 4— 4— 4—

Whitley ward John Madejski Academy 2005/06 n/a n/a n/a 2006/07 60 18 4 2007/08 73 34 17 2008/09 78 43 14 2009/10 100 58 28 n/a = Not applicable. 1 Pupils at the end of key stage 4 in each academic year. 2 In 2010 iGCSEs, accredited at time of publication, have been counted as GCSE equivalents and also as English and mathematics GCSEs. 3. School figures include all schools, whilst ward figures include maintained schools (including CTCs and academies) only. For this reason, data for some schools is not included in the ward table, and also pupil numbers in schools do not always sum up to the total number of pupils in the ward. 4 Figures not shown in order to protect confidentiality. Source: School and College Performance Tables (final data)

Home Education Primary Education: Admissions

Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many hours per week of home tuition Education what powers the governors of a state was provided on average to pupils under alternative primary school have to increase the intake of that provision in each local authority area in the latest school; and if he will make a statement. [58289] period for which figures are available. [58582] Mr Gibb: Whether the governors of a maintained school have the power to increase its intake will depend Mr Gibb [holding answer 9 June 2011]: The Department on the category of the school concerned. School admission for Education does not collect data on this issue. It is for arrangements are set and applied locally by the relevant local authorities to determine whether a pupil should admission authority. For community and voluntary have home tuition and, if so, the number of hours that controlled schools the admission authority is usually is appropriate for that pupil. Department for Education the local authority (LA), for foundation and voluntary guidance sets out that pupils who cannot attend school aided schools it is the governing body and for Academies because of ill-health should receive a minimum of five it is the Academy Trust. hours home tuition each week but that they should be Under the Code currently in force, all schools must offered as many hours as they can cope with, up to have a published admission number (PAN) for each full-time education. ‘relevant age group’ in which pupils are, or would We have taken measures to commence section 3A of normally be, admitted to the school. The PAN forms the Children, Schools and Families Act 2010 from part of the admission arrangements for the school and, September 2011. This section re-defined the section 19 as such, must be consulted on with their local community. duty, to the effect that the education should be full-time Admission authorities of maintained schools must set for all pupils in alternative provision, unless there are admission numbers with regard to the capacity assessment reasons which relate to the physical or mental health of for the school. Once an admission number has been set the child which would mean that this would not be in by the admission authority, maintained schools should the child’s best interests. Until now, only permanently not admit children above the PAN without the agreement excluded pupils have had an entitlement to full-time of the local authority. provision. The Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), launched a 12 week consultation on 27 May 2011 on a IBM revised Schools Admission and Appeals Codes. As part of that consultation, we intend to make it easier for all schools, particularly those that are popular with parents, Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for to increase their PAN, and thereby offer more places to Education how many contracts his Department holds parents. with IBM; and what the (a) purpose and (b) monetary value of each such contract is. [58692] Research

Tim Loughton: The Department does not hold a Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for current contract with IBM but it did make a payment of Education pursuant to the answer of 24 May 2011, £97,563 to them in this financial year for a licence Official Report, columns 628-32W, on research, whom agreement to use their software for the majority of the he has consulted on the decision to reduce funding for Department’s analytical requirements. (a) the Longitudinal Study of Young People in 871W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 872W

England, (b) the National Evaluation of Sure Start Sarah Teather: The Department for Education has Impact Study and (c) the Understanding Society not made an assessment of the level of provision of programme. [58313] video relay services in special schools for pupils with hearing impairments. It is for individual schools to Mr Gibb: The Department engages in an analytical decide whether video relay service, or other assistive planning process that involves consultation with a range technologies and forms of support, might be the most of interested parties in the wider research and academic appropriate means for facilitating communication and communities. Prioritising funding for longitudinal data learning in the classroom for individual pupils. collections is included in that process and each of the studies highlighted will have been considered in this Nicky Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for process. Education what estimate he has made of the number of The Longitudinal Study of Young People in England deaf pupils in schools in England. [58824] The Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) was consulted about the Department’s decision to stop Sarah Teather: The available information is shown in funding the Longitudinal Study of Young People in the following table. England. The Department made the decision because This includes pupils with a hearing impairment ranging the age of the cohort (now 20 to 21 years old) takes it from those with a mild hearing loss to those who are outside the remit of the Department. Discussions are profoundly deaf. It is not possible to differentiate between continuing with the ESRC about maintaining contact types of hearing impairment. with the cohort in the longer term and adding more information via data linkage. Maintained nursery, maintained primary, state-funded secondary and special schools and pupil referral units1, 2, 3—Number of pupils whose The National Evaluation of Sure Start Impact Study type of special educational needs (SEN) is hearing impairment4, 5, Funding for the National Evaluation of Sure Start 6—As at January 2010 in England (NESS) Impact Study has not been reduced. The existing Number of pupils with hearing impairment4, 5, 6 contract was intended to support the completion of School Action Statement of assessments of the children at seven years old. The Plus SEN Total Department has decided not to continue the study Primary SEN 9,145 6,440 15,585 beyond this survey of children at seven years of age, as type it was designed to look at the impact of the former Sure Secondary 1,725 1,820 3,545 Start Local Programmes. The current Sure Start Children’s SEN type Centre model is different from the earlier programmes Total 10,865 8,260 19,125 and the Department is continuing to fund the new 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. Evaluation of Children’s Centres in England (ECCE). 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies. 3 Includes maintained and non-maintained special schools. Excludes Understanding Society general hospital schools. The Department felt that it was important to support 4 Includes solely registered pupils. In pupil referral units, includes the initial development of Understanding Society.However, pupils registered with other providers and further education colleges. there had been a commitment that this funding would 5 Pupils at School Action Plus and those with a statement of SEN provided information on their primary need and, if appropriate, be ongoing. secondary need. 6 Includes pupils with a hearing impairment ranging from those with Schools: Admissions a mild hearing loss to those who are profoundly deaf. It is not possible to differentiate between types of hearing impairment. Fiona Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for Notes: 1. Pupil numbers have been rounded to the nearest 5. Education if he will assess the merits of extending the 2. There may be discrepancies between the sum of constituent parts exception in paragraph 2.44 of the Schools Admission and their totals. Code to include ministers of religion. [59405] Source: School Census Mr Gibb: Paragraph 2.44 of the School Admissions Code requires school admission authorities to treat the children of UK service personnel and other Crown Schools: Work Experience servants posted overseas as being resident in their area as soon as they have proof of posting. This is to ensure Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Education that such children do not suffer any disadvantage in the how many (a) state schools and (b) academies have admissions system as a result of their frequent mobility. operated work experience programmes for whole year The Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. groups in each of the last three years. [58833] Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), launched a 12 week consultation that will run until 19 Mr Gibb: These data are not collected centrally or August, and we will consider any evidence submitted locally. through that consultation as to the merits of extending the exception to include ministers of religion. However, the Education Business Partnership services annual data return does provide information on type Schools: Hearing Impairment and duration of work experience placements for young people. In academic year 2009/10, the latest year for Nicky Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for which data are available, some 527,000 pupils undertook Education what assessment he has made of the level of around 532,000 work experience placements (the figures provision of video relay services in schools for the indicating that some pupils undertook more than one hearing impaired. [58822] placement). 873W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 874W

The majority of placements were for Year 10 students art teachers. This is in line with a decreasing requirement (78.4%) with Year 11 students accounting for 17.1% of for secondary teachers as a result of the ongoing decline placements and 4.5% of placements being for post-16 in secondary pupil numbers. students. Over half (55%) of students undertook work Separate forecasts have not been made for drama experience placements lasting 10 days or more. teachers. For the purposes of teacher supply modelling, Teachers: Arts English and drama are treated as one subject category.

Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many (a) music, (b) art and (c) drama HEALTH teachers were working in schools in the academic year Action on Smoking and Health: Finance (i) 2009-10 and (ii) 2010-11; and how many he expects to be working in schools in 2011-12. [58502] Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether funding allocated to Action on Smoking and Mr Gibb [holding answer 9 June 2011]: Information Health by his Department may be used for lobbying on the qualifications and deployment of teachers in the purposes by that body. [59718] secondary sector was collected in the annual School Workforce Census, which took place in November 2010 Anne Milton: Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) for the first time. The number of teachers reported to be has received funding from the Department in the past, teaching music, drama and art in November 2010 is through the Department’s ‘Section 64 General Scheme given in the table. of Grants to voluntary and Community Organisations’. Number (headcount) of music, art and drama teachers1 in all publicly ASH received these grants specifically to carry out funded secondary schools— Position in November 2010—Coverage: defined projects. England None of this funding was, or could be used, for Of these, teachers lobbying purposes. holding a relevant2 Headcount of post A-level Art Therapy Subject in-service teachers qualification

Music 7,500 6,500 Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Drama 11,100 5,500 how many art therapists were engaged to work in NHS Art and Design 13,200 11,400 hospitals in each of the last three years; and what Base: 158,004 teachers to years seven-13 (unweighted headcount). estimate he has made of the number of such therapists 1 Teachers were counted once against each subject that they were engaged to work in hospitals in each of the next three teaching, regardless of the amount of time they spend teaching the years. [59566] subject. 2 A full list of what was deemed as a ’relevant’ qualification subject Mr Simon Burns: It is not possible to split the NHS for each curriculum subject taught can be found on the School Information Centre Workforce Census figures between Workforce Statistical First Release website here. Note: hospital and non-hospital based staff. The following 1. Numbers have been rounded to the nearest 100. table gives the number of qualified art, music, and Source: drama therapists employed in NHS trusts and primary School Workforce Census care trusts (PCTs) in the years requested, as it is not In previous years information on the deployment of possible to isolate art therapy staff from this group. teachers was collected via the Secondary Schools National Health Service Hospital and Community Health Services: Curriculum and Staffing Survey (SSCSS), an occasional qualified art, music, drama therapy staff employed in England by survey most recently run in 1992, 1996, 2002 and 2007. organisation type as at 30 September 2010 However, due to low sample sizes and variations in the Headcount methodology used to collect information in each of the 2008 2009 2010 SSCSS surveys, the numbers of teachers between years are not directly comparable. All qualified art/music/drama 758 737 691 therapy staff The number of teachers that schools employ in future Primary care trusts 107 89 80 years will, as now, be a matter for them to decide, Trusts 651 648 616 according to local needs and subject to statutory Notes: requirements on class sizes where appropriate. For funding 1. It is not possible to split Workforce Census figures between hospital purposes, the Department has produced overall estimates and non-hospital based staff. It is generally assumed that those staff of teaching posts in state schools and academies in based in NHS Trusts are engaged in more hospital based work. England. 2. It is not possible to isolate art therapy staff from the art, music, drama therapy area of work. 2010 headcount totals are unlikely to The Government does not produce estimates of the equal the sum of components. future numbers of teaching posts in particular subjects. 3. Staff may work in both a PCT and a trust, therefore they will be Estimates of the proportion of teachers working in counted once in a trust and once in a PCT, however for the headcount secondary schools who will be qualified in different figure for England they will only be counted once. 4. The new headcount methodology for 2010 data is not fully comparable subjects are however produced as part of the Department with previous years data due to improvements that make it a more for Education’s teacher supply and demand modelling stringent count of absolute staff numbers. Further information on the process. headcount methodology is available in the Census publication at: Estimates for the future number of specialist music www.ic.nhs.uk/webfiles/publications/010_Workforce/nhsstaff0010/ Census_Bulletin_March_2011_Final.pdf. teachers in state funded secondary schools indicate that Source: there will be a decrease of around 100 by 2011/12. A The NHS Information Centre for health and social care 2010 Non-Medical similar decrease is expected in the number of specialist Workforce Census. 875W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 876W

It is for local NHS organisations, with their knowledge health service is responsible. It is therefore not possible of the health needs of their local populations to employ to include outcome indicators for all specific diseases the staff required that best meets those needs in future and long-term conditions. years. Although there is not a specific outcome indicator for diabetic macular oedema in the NHS Outcomes Care Quality Commission: Manpower Framework, we would expect progress to be captured under Domain 2: Enhancing the quality of life for Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for people with long-term conditions. This domain of the Health for what reasons the Care Quality Commission framework seeks to capture those outcomes that an has (a) reduced its staffing levels and (b) removed its individual with any long-term condition would consider learning disability experts. [59693] important. In addition, the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence Quality Standard for Diabetes in adults will help to improve outcomes for people with Mr Simon Burns: The following information has been diabetic macular oedema. provided by the Care Quality Commission (CQC). Reductions in the CQC’s staffing levels have focused mainly on management posts and headquarter functions Diabetes: Peterborough rather than frontline posts, 2,078 employees transferred to the CQC from its legacy commissions. The current Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State establishment of the CQC is 1,924. for Health how many diabetes specialist nurses were To manage the new registration system the CQC practising in the Peterborough Primary Care Trust area restructured its field force in the summer of 2010. This in the latest period for which figures are available; and restructure allowed the CQC to focus its resource towards if he will make a statement. [59365] the frontline and resulted in the CQC removing a layer of middle management and increasing inspector autonomy Mr Simon Burns: The employment of diabetic specialist and accountability. nurses is a matter for the national health service locally The CQC has not reduced its frontline headcount. and as such, the information requested is not centrally The CQC has also advised it never had a dedicated collected. learning disability expert post. However, the CQC has a The hon. Member may wish to contact Peterborough learning disability committee to advise it. This committee Primary Care Trust direct. will include learning disability experts. General Practitioners Departmental Public Expenditure Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for what the monetary value to GP practices of (a) Health what strategic framework his Department has smoking cessation services, (b) contraceptive services developed for the delivery of its core functions during and (c) other locally-enhanced services commissioned the comprehensive spending review period. [59727] by primary care trusts was in (i) the first quarter of 2011 and (ii) the last quarter of 2010. [59486] Mr Simon Burns: Subject to the passage of the Health and Care Bill, the Department’s functions will change Paul Burstow: Pricing of individual local enhanced as a result of the modernisation process. We will be services is a local matter for determination and no reviewing the Department’s Operating Model to determine detailed information is collected or held centrally.However, which functions the Department should continue to aggregated financial returns from primary care trusts fulfil, and which should be moved to other organisations. (PCTs) from the 2009-10 final accounts show total It is therefore likely that some functions will be transferred expenditure on local enhanced services by PCTs was to other organisations and the Department will take on £339 million. some new ones. The exact timing and nature of these changes will not be confirmed until decisions have been Final audit returns for 2010-11 will be available later taken about the precise role and structures of all the this summer, and is expected to continue to show overall organisations in the new system. increased expenditure by PCTs on local enhanced services. The position for this year (2011-12) is too early to predict and will not be definitively known until after the Diabetes: Eyesight close of the financial year when audited accounts are submitted by PCTs. Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether his Department has any plans to Health Services: Ex-servicemen develop a NHS Outcomes Indicator for diabetic macular oedema. [59262] Mrs Mensch: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: We have no current plans to develop Health (1) what the rate of travel and subsistence an indicator for diabetic macular oedema. In developing reclaimable by war pensioners from the NHS is; and on “The NHS Outcomes Framework 2011-12”, we selected what date the rates were most recently changed; [59362] outcomes and indicators with a view to creating a (2) whether he has considered the merits of balanced set of national outcome goals, which reflect increasing the rate of subsistence reclaimable by war the breadth of treatment activity for which the national pensioners from the NHS. [59363] 877W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 878W

Paul Burstow: Patient transport and healthcare travel However, in relation to NHS trusts in the north-west cost support from the national health service is available seeking to obtain foundation trust status, the Secretary to all eligible NHS patients and is not a specific allowance of State for Health, the right hon. Member for South for war pensioners or Armed Forces Compensation Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), met the hon. Member Scheme recipients. The Service Personnel and Veterans for Altrincham and Sale West (Mr Brady) on 8 June Agency (SPVA) has a scheme to reimburse hospital 2011 about Trafford Healthcare NHS Trust. travelling expenses to war pensioners. Additionally, I met the hon. Members for Copeland NHS non-urgent transport is provided via Patient (Mr Reed) and Workington (Tony Cunningham) on 5 Transport Services (PTS) that are maintained by NHS April 2011 and the hon. Member for Penrith and The Commissioners (primary care trusts). These are generally Border (Rory Stewart) on 17 May 2011 about North booked by relevant secondary or community services Cumbria University Hospitals NHS Trust. medical professionals. Eligibility for non-urgent transport Maternity Services: Manpower is based upon clinical need and is available free to all NHS patients. Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health The Healthcare Travel Cost Scheme (HTCS) is designed what recent estimate he has made of the shortfall in to help with travel costs and arrangements for all NHS maternity-related health workers and professionals patients on low incomes. The HTCS is for those who do nationally; and if he will make a statement. [59406] not medically require PTS but require help in meeting the cost of travel to and from NHS medical care. The Anne Milton: It is the responsibility of local national HTCS is means tested for low-income earners, with health service organisations to plan and deliver a workforce those on a range of low-income benefits automatically appropriate to the needs of their local population, entitled. This scheme is constituted under the National based on clinical need and sound evidence. Health Service (Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges) Regulations 1988 as amended. The Centre for Workforce Intelligence, which was established to provide advice and information to the The HTCS will reimburse all or some of the travel NHS on workforce matters, has been commissioned to costs depending on eligibility. If the patient is entitled report on the maternity workforce during 2011-12 to to qualifying benefits or allowances they will get back inform future local workforce planning and commissioning the full travel costs by using the cheapest form of public decisions. transport available, including any concessions or promotions. If the patient uses a private car, a claim for Meat: Hygiene petrol and car parking charges where unavoidable, can be made at the mileage rate specified under the local Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Health HTCS. Rates are determined locally. whether his Department has made an assessment for The HTCS will apply for war pensioners receiving benchmarking purposes of the level of charges to treatment for conditions other than those for which abattoirs for regulation of meat hygiene controls in they receive a war pension. It does not apply in cases other European countries. [59317] where war pensioners obtain treatment for conditions caused by service for which they are in receipt of a war Anne Milton: Policy responsibility for meat hygiene pension. In those cases, expenses may be met by the controls lies with the Food Standards Agency (FSA). SPVAwho will apply their eligibility criteria to individual We are advised by the FSA that a recent study undertaken cases. The SPVA align their travel allowances with those for the European Commission on fees collected by the of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC). The member states to cover the costs of official food controls, HMRC have not changed these allowances since 2007 including meat hygiene controls, identified significant and therefore the SPVA allowances have also remained variation in the charging systems and charging rates constant. across the European Union (EU). The Commission subsequently started a review of EU charging rules, to which the FSA is actively contributing. The Commission Hospitals: North West is expected to reach a conclusion in the first quarter of 2012. Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mental Illness: Health Education what recent discussions he has had with (a) the North West Strategic Health Authority, (b) Warrington and Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Halton NHS Trust and (c) others on potential hospital what steps his Department is taking to improve public mergers in the North West. [59345] understanding of mental health issues. [59628]

Mr Simon Burns: I refer the hon. Member to the Paul Burstow: One of the key objectives of the cross- answers given to her on 23 May 2011, Official Report, Government mental health strategy “No Health Without columns 428-41W,by the Minister of State, Department Mental Health”, is that fewer people will experience of Health, the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam stigma and discrimination and that public understanding (Paul Burstow). of mental health will improve. As a result, negative No formal discussions have taken place between attitudes and behaviours to people with mental health Ministers and the North West Strategic Health Authority, problems will decrease. Warrington and Halton NHS Trust and others focusing Comic Relief and The Big Lottery have funded a on potential hospital mergers in the North West of major anti-stigma campaign, “Time to Change”, led by England. Mind and Rethink and evaluated by the Institute of 879W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 880W

Psychiatry. The programme of 35 projects aims to inspire in the system is maintained. NHSBT has been taking people to work together to end the discrimination action to implement the recommendations and good surrounding mental health. progress has been made. For example, NHSBT is in the We know, from discussions with voluntary and private process of scoping and costing a new future operating sector organisations, that there is an appetite for an model for the ODR as recommended. NHSBT will even more ambitious programme. We will give this issue a formal response to Professor Sir Gordon Duff’s ‘social movement’ our full support, and active participation report in the autumn. and are in discussion now with Mind to decide how the “Time to Change” programme may evolve in the future. Organs: Donors NHS: Redundancy Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Health what research his Department has (a) how many people employed by (a) Warrington commissioned and (b) evaluated on the reasons next of Primary Care Trust and (b) the North West Strategic kin do not consent to organ donation. [59370] Health Authority have taken voluntary redundancy in the last 12 months; and what the total cost to the public Anne Milton: Following the publication of the Organ purse of these redundancies was. [59344] Donation Taskforce report in 2008, the Department convened an Organ Donation Commissioning Research Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number of Group to explore where there remained gaps in knowledge voluntary redundancies for Warrington Primary Care in relation to organ donation. The Group concluded Trust and the North West Strategic Health Authority is that there would be benefits in commissioning further only available for the period June 2010 to March 2011. research into factors that influence a bereaved family’s Data from the electronic staff record shows there have decision regarding organ donation. been no voluntary redundancies in either organisation over this period. The Department has worked in partnership with the national health service and the National Institute for NHS: Reorganisation Health Research (NIHR) to fund studies into these issues. This includes: Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State the Donation, Transplantation and Ethnic Minorities (DonaTE) for Health what the cost to the public purse of his programme. This work is being undertaken by Kings College listening exercise on NHS reform has been. [59825] London and funded through a NIHR Programme Grant for four years from October 2009 (£863,000). The programme aims to increase the rates of donation among South Asian and Paul Burstow: Up to 13 June 2011 the costs invoiced African-Caribbean ethnic minorities, through researching attitudes for the NHS Listening Exercise was £36,640.97. This and barriers to organ donation within these communities. This includes costs relating to the expenses incurred by the will then help to inform the development of a training programme 45 NHS Future Forum members and to the rest of the which will increase health care professionals’ confidence and Listening exercise, for example national, regional and competence in conducting consent conditions with ethnic minority local listening events and Future Forum meetings. families; and The sums have been met from the Department’s the Family Attitudes Towards Donation programme. This work is being undertaken by the University of Wolverhampton allocated budget. and aims to gain a better understanding of the factors that influence a family’s decision regarding organ donation from a Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State United Kingdom population perspective. The Department has for Health (1) whether he plans to publish a revised provided £182,000 to support this work, which we anticipate estimate of the likely cost of his proposals for NHS will be completed by spring 2013. The findings will further reorganisation; [59826] help inform training for healthcare professionals in approaching families and the organ donation service design. (2) what plans he has to reexamine the cost of the proposed reorganisation of the NHS. [59827] Osteopathy Paul Burstow: The Government will publish a revised impact assessment for the Health and Social Care Bill in due course, reflecting the changes we propose to Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State make in response to the NHS Future Forum. for Health what recent representations he has received on the standardisation of collection of data on Organ Donor Register Review osteopathic treatments; and if he will make a statement. [59263] Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what progress his Department has made in Anne Milton: It is the responsibility of local national implementing each of the recommendations in health service organisations to make decisions on the Professor Sir Gordon Duff’s review of the organ donor commissioning and funding of complementary and register. [59368] alternative therapies, including osteopathy treatments, taking account of issues to do with safety, clinical and Anne Milton: Professor Sir Gordon Duff made a cost-effectiveness and the availability of suitably qualified/ number of recommendations addressed to NHS Blood regulated practitioners. A search of the Department’s and Transplant (NHSBT), which were designed to ensure database has not shown any recent parliamentary questions that the Organ Donor Register (ODR) reflects more or correspondence on the standardisation of collection clearly the wishes of those registered and that confidence of data on osteopathic treatments. 881W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 882W

Pharmacy Social Services: Finance

Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Margot James: To ask the Secretary of State for what the monetary value to community pharmacists of Health what procedures are in place to monitor expenditure (a) smoking cessation services, (b) contraceptive by local authorities on social care. [59742] services and (c) other locally-enhanced services commissioned by primary care trusts was in (i) the first quarter of 2011 and (b) the last quarter of 2010. Paul Burstow: Local government expenditure on social [59485] care is collected annually by the NHS Information Centre for Health and Social Care, through the personal Paul Burstow: Enhanced services such as stop smoking social services expenditure (PSS EX1) return. and sexual health services are commissioned from community pharmacies by primary care trusts to meet local need. The level of payment for such services is determined locally and information on the value of these contracts is not collected centrally. Social Services: Peterborough

Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine Health how many people in Peterborough constituency were in receipt of local authority funded (a) domiciliary Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Health social care, (b) professional support, (c) day care and if he will take steps to ensure the future of the Royal (d) short-term residential placements in each year since London Hospital for Integrated Medicine as an NHS 1997; and if he will make a statement. [59352] centre for research into the effectiveness of complementary and alternative medicines. [59688] Paul Burstow: Information for the Peterborough constituency is not collected centrally. Mr Simon Burns: Researchers at the Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine can apply to the The NHS Information Centre collects and publishes Department’s National Institute for Health Research information on the number of adults (aged 18 and over) (NIHR) for research funding. The NIHR welcomes in receipt of local authority funded community based funding applications for research into any aspect of services. human health, including complementary therapies. These The following table shows information for Peterborough applications are subject to peer review and judged in council. We are informed by the Information Centre open competition, with awards being made on the basis that data has been collected on a consistent basis between of the scientific quality of the proposals made. 2004-05 and 2009-10, but is not available for the years prior to this. Scarborough Hospital: Television Numbers of people aged 18 and over in receipt of local authority funded services from Peterborough council by type of service, 2004-05 to 2009-10 2004- 2009- Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 051 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 102 (1) what information his Department holds on the All 5,405 4,920 5,010 5,800 4,935 5,340 NHS facilities which have been made available for community based the purpose of making television programmes at 3 Scarborough hospital; what fee has been paid to the services Hospital Trust by the television company or companies concerned; and how many members of staff are Home care 1,455 1,640 1,850 2,645 2,190 2,035 involved in supporting or appearing on television in Day care 635 955 560 650 640 530 respect of this programme; [59710] Short term 0 0 0 295 290 285 residential4 (2) which (a) rooms, (b) wards and (c) other facilities Professional 1,785 880 2,030 1,420 840 910 at Scarborough hospital are being used by a television support company for the purposes of recording television 1 In 2004-05 the guidance was restated so that only people receiving services [59711] following an assessment were recorded, and therefore information prior to this programmes; and if he will make a statement; is not comparable. (3) what information his Department holds on the 2 In 2009-10 the way that service users who were receiving council commissioned services via a personal budget or direct payment changed and number of hours spent by staff employed at Scarborough they were only included under the personal budget and/or existing direct hospital on assisting in the production of television payments column and not under the specific service received. programmes; and if he will make a statement. [59712] 3 The total number of people receiving services is the number of people receiving one or more services in the year and therefore will not be the sum of the figures as double counting across service types may occur. The breakdown Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not routinely of services is provided for those stated in the question and is not a complete list of services provided. collect information on filming arrangements made between 4 Short term residential care is defined as the provision of short term national health service trusts and television companies. residential care for the client for any purpose other than respite care of a carer. Agreements of this nature are a matter for the NHS It includes the provision of rehabilitation services. In 2007-08 the guidance regarding the definitions of ‘short term residential—not respite’ was restated locally and as such, my right hon. Friend may wish to to ensure that respite was not included in this column, this may have impacted approach the chief executive of Scarborough and North on the data for this category. East Yorkshire Healthcare NHS Trust, which may hold Source: some relevant information. Referrals, Assessments and Packages of Care, form P2f 883W Written Answers15 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 884W

Southern Cross Healthcare Department’s publication Healthy Lives, Healthy People: a Tobacco Control Plan for England; and if he will Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for publish a note of the discussions at each such meeting. Health (1) what estimate he has made of the number of [59741] (a) residents and (b) members of staff in Scotland who may be affected by any failure of Southern Cross Anne Milton: The Government takes very seriously to meet its financial obligations; [59245] the United Kingdom’s obligations as a Party to the (2) what discussions he has had with the Scottish World Health Organization’s Framework Convention Government on the financial situation of Southern on Tobacco Control (FCTC). The FCTC places obligations on parties to protect the development of public health Cross; [59246] policy from the vested interests of the tobacco industry. (3) what criteria he plans to adopt in determining We have made our commitment to this very clear in whether the Government will intervene in the financial Chapter 10 of “Healthy Lives, Healthy People: a Tobacco situation of Southern Cross; [59247] Control Plan for England” our Tobacco Control Plan (4) whether he plans to take steps to resolve the for England. financial situation of Southern Cross; [59248] A copy of the plan has already been placed in the (5) what contingency plans he has put in place to Library. minimise disruption to residents and staff should Southern Cross enter administration. [59249] Transplant Surgery

Paul Burstow: Departmental officials are in regular Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for contact with their counterparts in the Scottish Assembly Health (1) with reference to the NHS Blood and Transplant Government and I spoke to Nicola Sturgeon, Cabinet Strategic Plan 2011-2014, what plans his Department Secretary for Health and Wellbeing Scotland, on 14 June has to integrate the commissioning and funding of 2011, regarding this matter. retrieval and transplantation teams across the UK; No estimate has been made of the numbers of residents [59366] and members of staff of Southern Cross care homes (2) what consideration his Department has given to who might be affected if the company could not meet the merits of including in provider contracts for NHS its financial obligations. acute services a requirement for the provider to demonstrate This is a sensitive issue, which is currently the subject a commitment to increasing organ donation; [59371] of commercial negotiations. It would not be appropriate (3) whether his Department plans to include organ or helpful to speculate on what might happen. We donation in (a) the commissioning for quality and consider this issue should be fully capable of resolution innovation payment framework and (b) quality by the private sector and look to Southern Cross, its accounts. [59372] landlords and those with a stake in the business to put in place a plan to ensure the company is placed on a Anne Milton: The Department will make sure that sound footing. measures to increase organ donation are appropriately We are ensuring, through our discussions with Southern incorporated into the new arrangements for the Department Cross, landlords and the banks, that everyone involved and the national health service as this is established. understands their collective responsibility towards the residents. Nevertheless, all parties involved are ready to take DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER decisive action if the current plans do not create a viable platform for the future. In England, we have been Diamond Jubilee 2012 working closely with the Local Government Association and the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services Pete Wishart: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister to ensure arrangements are in place in the event of any when he expects to announce the outcome of the Diamond need. Jubilee city status competition. [59575] Tobacco Mr Harper: I refer the hon. Member to the written Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health ministerial statement I made on 1 December 2010, if he will meet tobacco manufacturers to discuss his Official Report, column 77WS. ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 15 June 2011

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 759 CABINET OFFICE—continued Benefit Fraud...... 763 Topical Questions ...... 766 Big Society Bank...... 764 Volunteering...... 759 Giving...... 761 Industrial Action (Public Sector) ...... 760 National Citizen Service...... 762 PRIME MINISTER ...... 768 Public Bodies Bill...... 765 Engagements...... 768 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Wednesday 15 June 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 69WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 70WS Abolition of Regional Development Agencies Sudan...... 70WS (Public Bodies Bill) ...... 69WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 15 June 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 800W DEFENCE—continued Trade Unions ...... 800W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 829W Armed Forces: Redundancy...... 829W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 825W Armed Forces: Uniforms ...... 829W Departmental Pensions ...... 825W Departmental Travel ...... 829W Local Government Finance ...... 825W Falkland Islands: Air Force...... 830W Postal Services: Crime...... 826W HMS Endurance...... 830W Students: Counselling ...... 826W HMS Protector ...... 830W Trade Unions: Pay ...... 827W Libya: Armed Conflict...... 831W Trade Unions: Public Bodies...... 827W Navy ...... 831W Reserve Forces ...... 832W CABINET OFFICE...... 797W Reserve Forces: Northern Ireland ...... 832W Charities: Mental Health ...... 798W Company Accounts...... 798W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 884W Departmental Billing ...... 799W Diamond Jubilee 2012...... 884W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 799W Efficiency Savings ...... 797W EDUCATION...... 859W Voluntary Sector ...... 798W Child Protection Review ...... 859W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 787W Children: Day Care ...... 859W Community Relations: Finance...... 787W Children: Protection...... 859W Derelict Land: Planning Permission...... 791W Children’s Centres...... 860W EU Grants and Loans: North East ...... 791W Classroom Assistants: Pay ...... 860W Fire Services...... 792W Crown Relocations...... 861W Local Authority Business Growth Incentives Departmental Public Appointments...... 861W Scheme...... 792W English Baccalaureate: GCSE...... 861W Non-domestic Rates...... 793W G4S...... 862W Planning...... 793W GCSE ...... 862W Regional Growth Fund ...... 794W GCSE: Reading Berkshire...... 862W Social Rented Housing: Housing Occupancy...... 794W Home Education...... 869W Travellers: Caravan Sites ...... 795W IBM ...... 869W Primary Education: Admissions...... 870W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 781W Research ...... 870W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 781W Schools: Admissions ...... 871W Gambling...... 781W Schools: Hearing Impairment ...... 871W Government Art Collection ...... 781W Schools: Work Experience...... 872W Olympic Games 2012: Betting...... 782W Teachers: Arts ...... 873W Olympic Games 2012: Security ...... 782W Sports: Betting ...... 782W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 809W Biofuels: Finance ...... 809W DEFENCE...... 828W Carbon Emissions...... 810W Apache Helicopters: Guided Weapons...... 828W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 810W Col. No. Col. No. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—continued JUSTICE...... 835W Electricity...... 811W Asylum: Appeals...... 835W Energy: Research ...... 811W Civil Proceedings: Insolvency...... 835W Fuel Poverty...... 812W Coroners ...... 836W Greenhouse Gas Emissions...... 812W Debt Collection...... 836W Low Carbon Innovation Fund ...... 813W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 838W Members: Correspondence ...... 813W Domestic Violence: Legal Aid...... 838W Microgeneration...... 813W Drugs: Convictions ...... 839W Nuclear Power: Liability ...... 815W Legal Aid: Education...... 841W Nuclear Power Stations: Accidents...... 814W Payments: Natural Resources...... 841W Water Power...... 816W Prison Sentences ...... 842W Prisoners’ Release...... 843W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Probation: Unpaid Work ...... 849W AFFAIRS...... 785W Reoffenders...... 851W Animal Welfare: Rabbits ...... 785W Shoplifting: Fixed Penalties ...... 851W Flooding: Hertfordshire ...... 786W Victims and Witnesses General Fund...... 851W Landfill Allowance Trading Scheme...... 786W Natural Gas: Exploration ...... 786W TRANSPORT ...... 832W Cycling England...... 832W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 795W Halifax-Leeds Railway Line...... 833W Afghanistan: Police ...... 795W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 833W Brazil: Mining...... 796W Transport: Disadvantaged...... 834W Children: Human Rights...... 796W Transport: Regional Planning and Development ... 835W Crown Relocations...... 797W Serco ...... 797W TREASURY ...... 800W HEALTH...... 874W Arch Cru...... 800W Action on Smoking and Health: Finance...... 874W Banks: Pay ...... 801W Art Therapy ...... 874W Construction Industry Scheme...... 801W Care Quality Commission: Manpower...... 875W Disadvantaged: Financial Services...... 801W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 875W Financial Markets...... 802W Diabetes: Eyesight...... 875W Fuels: Prices...... 802W Diabetes: Peterborough...... 876W Income Tax ...... 802W General Practitioners ...... 876W Members: Correspondence ...... 803W Health Services: Ex-servicemen...... 876W National Insurance Contributions ...... 803W Hospitals: North West ...... 877W Non-domestic Rates: Appeals ...... 804W Maternity Services: Manpower ...... 878W Overseas Companies: Payments ...... 805W Meat: Hygiene...... 878W Personal Taxation ...... 805W Mental Illness: Health Education...... 878W Social Security Benefits: Expenditure...... 806W NHS: Redundancy...... 879W Tax Avoidance: Northern Ireland ...... 806W NHS: Reorganisation...... 879W Taxation: Domicile ...... 806W Organ Donor Register Review ...... 879W Taxation: Foreign Investment in UK...... 807W Organs: Donors ...... 880W VAT: Imports ...... 807W Osteopathy...... 880W Pharmacy...... 881W WALES...... 827W Royal London Hospital for Integrated Medicine ... 881W Freedom of Information ...... 827W Scarborough Hospital: Television ...... 881W Social Services: Finance ...... 882W Social Services: Peterborough ...... 882W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 786W Southern Cross Healthcare ...... 883W Equalities Act 2010 ...... 786W Tobacco ...... 883W Pay: Equal Opportunities...... 787W Transplant Surgery...... 884W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 817W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 783W Asbestos: EU Law...... 817W Asylum: Human Rights ...... 783W Departmental Manpower...... 817W Community Policing ...... 783W Departmental Renewable Energy ...... 819W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 783W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 819W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 784W Housing Benefit: Birmingham ...... 820W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students ...... 784W Industrial Health and Safety: Heating...... 820W Motor Vehicles: Theft ...... 784W Industrial Health and Safety: Homicide...... 821W Jobcentre Plus: Redundancy ...... 821W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 808W Mental Health...... 822W Departmental Travel ...... 808W Social Security Benefits...... 822W Developing Countries: HIV Infection ...... 808W State Retirement Pensions: Females ...... 823W Forests: Overseas Aid...... 808W Unemployed People: Public Transport...... 823W Libya: Armed Conflict...... 809W Work Capability Assessment...... 823W Palestinians: Politics and Government ...... 809W Work Capability Assessment: Mental Health...... 824W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. 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CONTENTS

Wednesday 15 June 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 759] [see index inside back page] Minister for the Cabinet Office Prime Minister

Humanitarian Emergency Responses [Col. 781] Statement—(Mr Andrew Mitchell)

Remembrance Day (Bank Holiday) [Col. 796] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Claire Perry)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Welfare Reform Bill [Col. 798] As amended, further considered; read the Third time and passed

Kidderminster Enterprise Zone [Col. 893] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall SMEs (South of England) [Col. 255WH] Unauthorised Encampments (Brighton) [Col. 280WH] Caring Responsibilities [Col. 289WH] Eyesight Tests (Drivers) [Col. 313WH] Housing (Bradford) [Col. 320WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 69WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 781W] [see index inside back page]