120982 Windows Insider Podcast EP38 Laura Finch

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest)

WINDOWS INSIDER – EPISODE 38: INSIDER CURRENCY DONE RIGHT

[MUSIC]

JASON HOWARD: Welcome to the Windows Insider Podcast, where leaders from Microsoft and Windows Insiders discuss tech trends, careers, and innovation. I'm your host, Jason Howard. This is Episode 38, “Insider Currency Done Right”

But first, if you're not yet a Windows Insider, head over to our website, insider.windows.com and register for free. Insiders get access to upcoming Windows features before they're released to the public, plus exclusive opportunities to experience all Microsoft has to offer. Without further ado, let’s get on to the show!

For participants in the Windows Insider program, there’s a recurring activity that seems to bring excitement like no other: the release of new builds! The anticipation of watching the download2 indicator tick by, getting the build installed, and then booting into the freshly updated operating system to see what all has changed (or not changed!).

But what happens when that’s not the case? What if your device is no longer taking on new builds? What are you missing out on? Not only in the space of features and changes, but in relation to bug fixes and security patches? These concerns and more are captured in a concept we refer to as “Currency” and in this episode we’ll focus on this topic end-to-end.

Joining us for this conversation will be feature area owner Laura Finch, a Program Manager on the Fundamentals team here at Microsoft. We will cover the previously noted questions and a whole lot more, so let’s kick things off!

[MUSIC]

JASON HOWARD: Welcome to the podcast, Laura. Thank you for joining .

LAURA FINCH: Thanks, Jason. It’s good to be here.

JASON HOWARD: It is fantastic to have you. You and I have worked together for a little while, and I’m surprised it’s taken me this long to have you on, especially given the space you work in. I think, I don’t know, maybe I’m just a little remiss in not having invited you sooner. I’m glad you were able to accept and make the time. So, I appreciate your being here.

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, you’re welcome. Nothing better to do on this rainy day, so.

JASON HOWARD: It’s Seattle, right? So, for the listeners out there, can you tell them a little bit about yourself and what you do here at Microsoft"

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, I’m actually a Washington native, believe it or not, and you never do get used to the winters here. And the rain always takes you by surprise. And as far as work, I’m Project Manager on the Windows Flighting team within Fundamentals at Microsoft.

JASON HOWARD: It’s funny, we used to be in the Fundamentals team, and then we got shuffled around. But that doesn’t mean I forgot about all the awesome homies that I’ve worked with in the past, you being one of them.

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest)

LAURA FINCH: It just sort of spreads us all around so that we can get back together and work on bigger things, because we’re all in different teams.

JASON HOWARD: that’s actually not a bad way of stating. It just means that you have the chance to meet more people and have a broader scope of influence, which is important in your career.

LAURA FINCH: Exactly.

JASON HOWARD: So, knowing that, how long have you been with the company, what did you work on before you joined the Flighting team? No doubt, you’ve been around a little while and probably worked on many interesting things along the way.

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, I’ve been at Microsoft for just a little over 12 years. And time flies, for sure. And when I first joined, I was actually in MSN Music and MSN Video, which the music part spun off into Zune, if anybody remembers that. And then I worked also on Microsoft’s first-party movies and TV app. That was super interesting, working with some content providers in the studios and things like that. And about three years ago, I actually joined the Flighting team. And that’s when you and I would have met.

JASON HOWARD: It’s hard to believe that it’s been that long, because I’ve been in this role for a little over five years now. And I’ve had the pleasure of meeting so many people along the way. But there’s days where it feels like it’s been an eternity. And then other days where it’s like, has it really been that long? Already? I kind of have that outstanding question, because it doesn’t feel like – it doesn’t feel like that much time has passed?

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, I went back to look and see if it was two or three years. Pretty sure it’s three.

JASON HOWARD: You mentioned in your intro, that your current role is on the Fundamentals team, and you’re doing a course work that’s related to flighting Can you tell us a little bit more about what your current core focus area is, and some details about it?

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, I help run the internal program for Windows flighting, which we call self-host, internally, making sure that the flights get validated, and we look at all of that before we send it externally to our insiders, and I look a lot at the device currency, which means keeping the devices up to date on what flight they’re actually running. It’s an important piece of the overall health of all the populations, whether you’re internal to Microsoft or external, or part of the insider program. It’s super important to the devices in a current state, on a flight that’s gone out recently, to make sure that they’re secure and getting feedback on the recent flights and all that.

JASON HOWARD: Yeah, you mentioned currency. And obviously, that’s an important factor of the program. And I don’t think it’s one that – I don’t think we’ve done a good enough job talking about it externally. And kind of number one, what it actually means, what it represents. Number two, how we focus on it internally. And then number three, why it’s something that insiders should pay attention to. And of course, this is kind of the focus of this month’s podcast. So, we’re going to dig into all of that. So, let’s start off with the first aspect of it. Can you give the listeners a high-level overview of what currency actually is? And then, after that, we’ll dig a little bit into why it’s so important as a part of the insider program.

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, absolutely. So, currency, we want the devices to be current. What the definition of that is, is actually that you’re on the most recent flight. So, say if you’re like in the dev channel, that would be what we just flighted this week.

JASON HOWARD: Okay.

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest)

LAURA FINCH: And we look at that current one minus one, which means that you want to be on the one that flighted this week, or if you could be on the last one we flighted. So, if we had one last week, that would be this week than last weeks’. And then we would consider your device actually to be current.

JASON HOWARD: So, that’s the threshold range is the most current or potentially one build back?

LAURA FINCH: Correct.

JASON HOWARD: Okay, how – how did we decide that to be the cutoff point? And is it the same across each of the channels?

LAURA FINCH: The definition is the same across all of the channels. That’s the easy answer. And regardless of what channel you’re in, how often a flight may go out, may differ. But it’s still important to be on those current flights. Because that’s where you’re getting the new features, that’s where you are work – being able to keep the devices secure and healthy. And when we look at adoption, also of the flights over time, that’s where we get a pretty good level of adoption. And when we start seeing that it’s – the devices that when they get behind more than that, they kind of fall off. And they have more of a tendency to actually stay on those older flights.

JASON HOWARD: That’s actually something that I want to dig into a little bit and the concept of falling behind. What is it that might cause an insider to get behind? There’s obviously, new builds being released in each of the channels, whether it’s a full build, or, as is more common in the beta channel, or the release preview channel, where they’re getting these smaller cumulative updates, whether it’s once a month, multiple times a month.

So bit it, it just depends on, the release schedule for the particular channel. There is this obvious population of insiders that somehow seem to get, I don’t want to call it left behind. Because it’s not like we’re leaving them anywhere intentionally. But it seems like things just kind of happen along the way. And it’s like, “oh, wait, I’m not getting a build”. Well, what now? So, can you talk a little bit about that space?

LAURA FINCH: Yeah. We do call it left behind. But it’s more – it is very much in – unintentional, they fell off, and we want to figure out how to get them back on the train. And there are bugs that happen in the actual builds. And those can impact the update ability of the device. And we fix the actual bugs, but sometimes the fix doesn’t move the devices forward. So, they get stuck in aren’t offered a new build.

JASON HOWARD: Okay.

LAURA FINCH: Then there’s also some bigger buckets of issues where devices get in a bad state, sort of unintentionally. So, one of the big issues we see actually is the uptime of the device, which means how long is the device actually turned on, so that we have a window where we can offer the update to that new flight. There’s a lot of logic built into the scanning and download and install of the build. And so, we try to be smart and figure out what’s the best time to offer that to the device. And so, if the device isn’t up long enough, we don’t even attempt it because we want to let the user use their device.

JASON HOWARD: Yeah, and that sounds like that’s also influenced by things like active hours, which are the time blocks that a user can set for installing updates and things of that nature, doing device maintenance, so to speak.

LAURA FINCH: Exactly. And then there’s also – there’s certain programs that they’re running or apps that are running, that we consider the device to be in use, like if a video is running, or music is playing, even if nobody is interacting with the device, then we still don’t want to go through the update at that time. And so, we find that that’s one of the biggest, biggest impacts we have. And that if people just leave their device on, it’s likely we’ll be able to find a good time and fit in an update. That’s one of the biggest ones. And one of the other issues we see is when you are on a build, that is a higher number than what is being offered, based on how your device is

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest) currently configured. So, the example of that is, you’re on a build that – right now, that is actually being offered to the dev channel. And you decide that, for some reason, you don’t want to be on that, and you go back into your settings, and you put the device back on the – the beta channel. The beta channel, the flights right now for that are on lower build numbers. And so, it’s when the update goes to look, and says, hey, is this device up to date? It thinks it’s it is up to date. And so, it’s not offered.

JASON HOWARD: Yeah, because the device, it’s going to see whatever is being applied to the beta channel at that point, which is most likely, at least how it’s set up in the channels the way they are right now, Dev is on the open-ended development cycle where it’s not tied to a specific release. And so, if you switch out of Dev and into beta, beta is on a much earlier, much lower build number, however you want to say it.

And as such, anything that’s going to be offered to the other participants in the beta channel won’t be applicable, because your device is going to say, “oh, this build number is way lower than what I already have. I’m already current of some sort”, depending on how the logic is set. The device is going to think it’s current, it’s just not going to install it. It’s going to say, oh, that’s not applicable to me, okay, I’ll just wait for something else in the future. And of course, at that point, who knows how long it’s going to be before they’ll get another build. Because even at this point in time, there’s a significant gap and build numbers between what’s in the beta channel versus what’s in the dev channel.

So, that just creates this entire scenario of – just not good things is probably the easiest way to sum it up. And interestingly enough, there is one thing that I do want to touch back on, where you mentioned earlier about bugs causing some of these issues, especially in relation to the update space. And I might be getting a little off track here, but I think it’s worth noting this, because it kind of creates a disparity between how easy it can be to fix some of this, versus how difficult it might be in other circumstances.

So, when you’re taking an update, there’s the whole concept of up level and down level; down level being the build that you’re on currently, and up level being the bill that you’re trying to go to. So, when something new is offered to your device, and it begins the download and installation process, taking your update. If the bug is in the up level build, so the build that’s coming down to your machine as the new build, it’s actually easier to bypass in that scenario, because that means, hey, there’s some bugs that’s preventing it from installing. Potentially, we could re- – create a fix for that bug, re-spin a build and then maybe the next week, or two weeks out in a flighting perspective, a build can be offered to you, without that bug, that your machine would then take, download, install, and get you on to the – a new a newer build as appropriate.

Where it gets a little interesting is when the bug is in the down-level build. Thankfully, this doesn’t happen very often. But hey, as is the nature with preview builds, there’s always a chance of something like that occurring. And when the bug is in the down-level build, that’s when some of the – call them acrobatics, tend to happen. Because it usually requires some sort of direct user intervention, or some sort of a script or work-around that – of course, it all depends on what the bug is, as to how complicated it gets. But then, in the absolute worst-case scenario, a user might actually have to flash there a device to get past a particular bug. I realize that’s worst-case scenario. And thankfully, that has only happened once, maybe twice, in the five years, we’ve been cruising along in the Insider program. But it’s just something to keep in mind, right? And I’m speaking very conceptually about all of this.

But it just highlights the point of how it can be a little difficult to try to keep everybody in the same place, moving from build to build, so on and so forth. And then not to mention that for users that live in countries that have, bandwidth limitations, or they’re paying for metered connections, things like that, they may not be able to take a new build each and every single week.

So, just the nature of their personal or life circumstances, they may not always be 100% current. And it’s not like we’re going to penalize them, or anything like that. It’s just the nature of what’s happening in their particular

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest) circumstance. So, it kind of does influence some of the metrics that we see on, “hey, is everybody staying on the new builds? Are they staying current”? How are we working through that process? And I don’t doubt that that’s something you have to keep tabs on along the way, Laura, like that’s a lot to keep up with.

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, we don’t. When we look at the targets for currency and to your point, we never say 100% of devices. We want devices to be as current as possible, knowing that there are always going to be legitimate reasons that people postpone taking an update, or maybe there was a bug, and we need to get it fixed. Whenever possible, with those down-level bugs like you were talking about, we do work with the teams internally to identify those ones where we could technically go and fix them. right? What can we actually do- to get the devices current, to alleviate the ask on end users having to take some manual action? And so, there’s your recommended troubleshooters, we’ve done things before that, where it goes out in the packaging, the LCU, and things like that, so that the fix actually gets applied that way. So, there’s a couple of different options that we look at, to deploy internally, so that the end users don’t have to do anything.

JASON HOWARD: Well, obviously, insiders that are active and engaged in the program, they like getting new builds, whether it’s to see the new features or to get a fix to a bug that, they were having troubles with things like that. And of course, there’s the – what we’ll call the vocal and engaged subset of those folks that are like Wednesdays at 10 am, Redmond time, they click, click, click – try to check for updates, you know?

We are creatures of habits, internally, at least to some extent. we love and appreciate that enthusiasm. It’s always super fun to see who got the build first and went and posted it up. Is that going to show up in the Answers forum, is it going to show up on Twitter? who gets to say “I got it!” It’s always super fun. And no doubt, hopefully, well, at least hopefully some of those folks are listening to the podcast right now, they’re like, hey, shout out, everybody. But I mean, as is the – the topic that we’re going through here, not everybody stays current. And of course, that’s a focus of what you’re working on.

So, we hinted at a little bit of them earlier, but I want to, I want to dig in just a little bit – just a little bit deeper. If a user isn’t current, that can cause some – we’ll just say unwanted side effects. It’s obviously important for users to stay up to date, which is why these efforts are in place. So, can you dig into a little bit about what the – we’ll just call it side effects, are – if an insider is running an older, or even potentially running an expired build?

LAURA FINCH: Yes, one of the biggest reasons we want devices to stay current is so that they’re getting those security patches and their devices stay secure. I mean, that’s one of our main reasons around it, really. And the other one is, is that we want folks to actually have the new features and the new builds. That’s why they became insiders, so that they could get that first look and test it out, and try things, and give feedback, and see what’s going on.

If they’re not on a current flight, then they’re providing feedback on old flights, and it may be that they may run into bugs, and file some bugs, and we’re like, great. And we go and look at them, investigate them, and they’re already fixed because they were on old flights. So, people want to be using and giving feedback on the – that most current stuff, and they’re just not.

So, that sort of that angle is broken. And then we also, you have the piece that the hardware health is actually better on newer builds, and it runs better, and all of that. So, we want to keep the devices current from a health perspective as well.

JASON HOWARD: So, that leads to the question that I’m going to ask you next. And that is, how does an insider find out if they aren’t current? It’s not like there’s a big thing that pops up on your screen, where it’s like, hey, you’re not current. Well, given the one exception, if you’re on an expired build, or a build that’s about to expire, you will get a series of notifications. Let me be very clear about that. If you’re in that particular bucket, we’ll let you know. Now that being said, if you’re on, say, N minus 3, which again, for back earlier is your three builds

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest) behind the most current build of what’s being offered in the particular channel that you were configured for, how does a user figure this out? And then how do we remedy that?

LAURA FINCH: The best way right now to figure that out, is to figure out version of the OS you’re running. And so, whether that’s, running WINVER, or going into "about" on your settings, however you figure out what build` your own. So, you get that, and then go and look at your Windows Insider program settings and see what you’re configured for. So, let’s say you’re configured for the Dev channel. And then I was looking at the Insider flight hub. It has a list of all of the flights that are currently flighting, and you can see what is the most current one, and you can compare that to what you’re running, and what you would expect to run.

JASON HOWARD: And so that’s aka.ms/flighthub – F L I G H T B H U B. A quick plug for that. Brandon on our team is responsible for that. He does an awesome job of keeping up with it, but just as a quick recap, figure out which build you’re on, whether it’s "about" in settings, or if you just click Start, and type WINVER, and hit Enter, and it will bring up the little screen that shows you the current information. So, "about" or WINVER, get your OS build number, verify which channel you have your device enrolled into, and then take those two bits of information and compare it to what is in Flight Hub.

LAURA FINCH: Exactly.

JASON HOWARD: Okay, good. Now let’s jump to the next thing that is if a user finds out that their build is expiring, or is out of date, or if they realize, hey, I’m starting to get behind they’re beyond this current, or N minus one threshold, what are the next steps they should take?

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, if you go into your settings, and you actually look for Windows Update, you click it, and nothing happens. Because sometimes that’s all you need to do is go in and see what status it is. Maybe it’s waiting to download or install, or maybe you need to reboot. So, if it’s in any of those phases of the Windows Update, just complete it, and do what it actually asks you to do.

And if at any point in that you run into issues, you can always, always, always log an issue in the feedback hub, let us know it’s not going as expected. Those get triaged and looked at, and all that goodness comes from there. But if you need to take steps, update doesn’t work, you’re stuck somewhere along the way, you realize you’re behind, you realize that your build is expiring, you want to go to the Insider docs, and which is aka.ms/WIPnoupdate. And there’s steps to go through to manually update. It walks you through the update process of what you need to do to actually get the most current flight.

JASON HOWARD: And that link that you gave the aka.ms/WIPnoupdate, that links out to some information that the insider team has put together. And that’s hosted on Microsoft docs. So, anybody that’s listening is familiar with the Docs platform, the materials are there. You can look it up directly if you would prefer, or you can use that short URL that Laura provided a moment ago.

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, and that’s the best way. There’s a ton of really good information out there. There’s links to different specific articles, and it will help you walk through the process if you’re not familiar with it.

JASON HOWARD: Al so let’s dig in a little further, not that we haven’t gone far enough down this rabbit hole. There’s still more to explore. So, part of what your current efforts are, and I mentioned earlier that if a user is on an expired build, or a soon-to-be-expired build, there’s notifications that are somewhat proactive. But if they’re just starting to get behind and say they’re three or four, maybe even a little further behind in a build perspective, they don’t necessarily get something that’s kind of directed to them a bit, something that’s much more noticeable and kind of grabs their attention. It sounds like part of your efforts might actually include being proactive in this space and trying to tell insiders that, hey, you’re on an older build, you might want to go through some of this process and try to get caught up, figure out what the actual root cause of you know being behind is.

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest)

Because if an insider hasn’t paid attention, or if they have their active hours set up, so their builds are installing in the background, and they just are constantly just using their device and, cruising along in their daily activities, they may not notice. So, what are some of the things that we do to try and tell insiders to be like, “hey, you’re on an older build”, or whatever, just something to help drive awareness about the situation?

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, one of the things that we have done was we have done a few email campaigns, direct emails to insiders and said, “hey, we noticed your device might be out of date, and here’s some steps to go through and try and get updated”. We actually send those out a few times a year. And we see a big push on that because it is, it’s notification. People are like “oh, I had no idea.” And so, then they go and get updated.

We also do, in the Windows settings, in the troubleshooting section, we do have recommended troubleshooters. So, if we know that you’re behind – the device may behind because it’s hitting a specific bug, there is notice that goes in there. And then you just run that, and it fixes it and gets you up to date. And we also leverage the Windows notifications, the toast that shows on the little right-hand corner, in the notification area, there. So, it’ll pop up there and let you know that you are actually behind and can go in and get updated.

JASON HOWARD: And then, of course, we have avenues such as social media and the Answers forum. And hey, even this particular edition of the podcast to try to drive awareness user insight of them knowing that this is a potential thing. And it’s something that’s good to take a check-in once in a while to make sure that, hey, am I still up to date? Yes? Cool!

And it’s not something you need to do every day, or it’s not something you have to do every week. If you know that your machine is still actively taking installs, or if you’re one of the folks who actively checks for new builds, you’re going know if you’re out of date very quickly. You’re like, “why am I not receiving this new build, I just got the Twitter announcement that it went live”, so on and so forth. But it’s – it’s really for some of the folks who aren’t particularly looking for the builds, it seems like that’s the – the user segment where there may not be as great of awareness that they may have fallen into this bucket at some point in time.

LAURA FINCH: Well, exactly. I mean, that’s – the service is good if it’s working, and you don’t really notice, right? I mean, that’s the whole point. You like your car to work that way, you like your phone to work that way. And your Windows work that way, too. So, we want it to just remain up to date, and people to not have to think about it much and pay attention. That’s, Windows Update has done a lot of effort to be like that and be less intrusive. And so that’s the whole goal is that it keeps on rolling. And so, we just have this effort to raise a little bit of awareness and get folks to think about it every once in a while.

JASON HOWARD: So, one of the things I think is actually probably worth doing, because we’ve given out a few links in this podcast so far. And if I was up on stage giving a presentation, I’d have a PowerPoint, and there would be a display behind my head. And this would be the point where I would tell the participants in the audience or crowd or whatever, to take out their phones and take a picture because I have a slide up on projection that says, “here are the important links to details that you need to know from this presentation.”

Every single one of my presentations I’ve ever given, whether it’s Build or Ignite, or Inspire, at each of the big conferences I’ve ever presented at, I’ve always done this. And it seems to be really helpful. And people are like, oh, hey, I didn’t have to try to memorize five or ten different links.

Podcasts being an audio format, it’s a little different. So, it’s probably worth taking a moment to kind of run through these. And for the listeners out there, when we publish this, we can actually put the links on the website. But if you’re the audio type, somebody who’s just good at just memorizing stuff, which that is not me. I will not take credit in that department, it’s probably worth taking a moment to actually run through them again.

So, if you want to start doing some troubleshooting, then the first link would be aka.ms/WIPtrouble. That will help you get going with some good materials. If you find out that you’re not getting updates, then go visit aka.ms/WIPnoupdate – W I P – N O – update. If you find yourself in a position where you actually do need to take a build download, and I mean by that getting an ISO to go through and create a manual install recovery

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest) media, or to try and forcibly flash your device to a higher build, you can go visit the Windows Insider page where we host those ISOs, which is aka.ms/WIPISO. W I P – I S O. That is another link that has come in handy, many a time. And then, of course, just logging in the feedback hub, so that there’s something for us to go and look at. Right? There may be – just you. It might be a single user issue. It may be a bucket of people who didn’t know, and they were all affected by the same bug. Of course, how does a – how does an avalanche start? The first snowflake has to fall, and the snow stacks up, but eventually, you end up with the snow.

But that’s kind of how things work is – Laura, if I could see your face right now, no doubt, you’d be like chuckling and laughing at me. I don’t doubt it one bit. See? Ah, I’m going to get a chuckle out of you yet.

LAURA FINCH: We’re all, snowflakes.

JASON HOWARD: Oh, my goodness. I love doing this podcast. But, starting the filing in the feedback hub, that way somebody else has the opportunity to find, oh, hey, that’s the same thing I’m hitting. that’s, of course, where we tell users to provide a clear and concise title to provide, repro steps in the body of the feedback being submitted. And then let other users go on and say, “oh, hey, I’m having a similar issue.” And then they can kind of add into it in that perspective.

Hopefully, going back through those, hopefully that’s helpful, kind of having them kind of concise in one spot. So, if you wanted to take notes, you’re able to do that. If you didn’t catch those, just rewind, two or three minutes capture them all, and then zip back forward again.

So, having covered all those different troubleshooting links, and as much as I don’t really want to have to cover this, this is actually important, should something like this actually arise. I want to make sure we’ve given a clean and full end-to-end picture for anybody who’s potentially affected, there may come a scenario where an insider actually has to do an install. And the by that I mean a clean install, where they have to just wipe their device and put down a new image. And I did give the link for that earlier, which is if you’re going to reinstall your insider builds aka.ms/WIPISO. But there is one more last line of defense, and that is, if somebody actually chose to opt out for the time being. I hate saying that. But each user is in control of their machine and what they’re doing with it. So, Laura can you talk a little bit about what that very last line of defense might be, if a user finds themselves in a position where there just doesn’t seem to be any other way out?

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, it does come down to that, sometimes, what’s the best option, and they basically do need to opt out of the program. There’s some steps set up, where people can follow that, and you clean install back to a retail build, and you opt out of the program. And there’s a website set up. So, again, folks can follow the steps outlined there. There’s a website folks can go to. It’s aka.ms/WIPoptout, and that has the steps for folks to go through. And you leave the Insider program, and there’s steps in there for how to stop receiving preview builds. And that gets you back into a good, stable, secure place on the device.

JASON HOWARD: And obviously, that’s not something we’re trying to actively encourage. We love the participants of the program, we appreciate all the insights and feedback, right? We hope they want to stay flighting, but on a particular device, especially if somebody is using it as their daily driver. And that’s one of the things that we highlight, when you enroll in the program is, especially depending on which channel you select, you might not want to do this on your primary device.

Once in a while it does, there does come a scenario where somebody’s like, hey, I was doing it, and I needed to pull back there was, bugs, or I wasn’t being able to stay current, and like in this type of scenario, and they had to make some tough decisions. And, we hate to see people go, but we do want to be, open about what that processes and that link will help them kind of jump through that process and get back to whatever state they may want to be in at that point.

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest)

And of course, there’s nothing that would prevent an insider from putting the device back into fighting at any point in time. Even if it’s just I need to be on a stable build for the next three months or six months, or even if it’s just a few weeks, that the user is still in full control of their device, and they have the options of doing whatever it is they may need to do to accommodate whatever point they are in their personal life, work life, whatever the situation may call for.

LAURA FINCH: Exactly. And that’s too where you mentioned that ISOs earlier. So, that’s a – sometimes a good option, too, if you are on that Dev channel, say you want to go back to beta. And as we’re talking about much earlier in the podcast, you’ll get sort of stuck in that state because you’re on a build too high. But the ISOs, you can go and grab that one for beta and install it. You just have to do a clean install, like you would, like what we’re talking about for opt out. It’s a way to stay in the program, continue to get those features, and stay in the previews, but it’s on a different channel.

JASON HOWARD: Yeah, and it’s just the nature of how the Dev channel operates at this point, is that it’s constantly working on a future code series, and because of the build numbers, that are being, produced in the release of that specific space. There’s no telling if, or even when, some of that code will make it down into the – the beta channel at some point in the future.

So, definitely things to keep in mind. But of course, the summary of all this , and we have definitely covered a lot of space today, is really just try to stay current. And if you ever catch yourself in a position where you think you might not be, go through some of these steps, double check to see what build you’re on. See what the most current build actually is. And then if you’re good to go, then great! Just keep rolling along and nothing to worry about. And if you catch yourself, you’re a few builds behind, go check for updates. And then if you need additional steps beyond that, hopefully you’ve listened to this podcast and you’ve got some helpful links to help you out along the way.

LAURA FINCH: Yeah, there’s a lot of really good information on that, the aka.msWIPtrouble. You can find almost anything you need for this particular topic.

JASON HOWARD: Well, Laura, as we wrap up here, I’m going to ask you one more question. My favorite question that I get to ask everybody. That’s the joy of being the host. What’s next? What do you have up your sleeve?

LAURA FINCH: We actually have a lot of work planned for the coming release around currency, which I’m really excited about because it should eliminate, even more, than need for us to ever go to users and say, hey, check and see if your current. It may come in the form of better notifications to them. Or it may come in better recommended troubleshooters, so they can just go run something. But whatever the form is definitely a focus on it, so that users don’t have to go and figure out if they’re current.

They would know if they’re current, or not, and know what to do to get current. And same for our internal teams where the folks that are working on Windows, they obviously want the devices to stay current, as well, and be providing feedback on the most recent. So, giving them tools to understand too. Of, hey, when you look at people on this fight, this is what it looks like. These are the healthy ones, these are some ones that may be in trouble, this is what you should do. This is how you should think about it. So, it’s spreading the word whether it’s to the insiders here on the podcast, or whether it’s internally. It’s really growing that awareness, overall, and just spreading the joy.

JASON HOWARD: The joy of currency.

LAURA FINCH: Exactly.

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest)

JASON HOWARD: I will say that everything that you just mentioned, I think it comes out to one end goal. And that is to make it as easy as possible for the insiders who have participated in the program. They don’t need the program to be like something else that they have to worry about “am I current and all that?” Anything that we can do on our side to hopefully avoid as many bugs as possible, right. But then just to help them stay current without them having put a lot of effort into it. It’s the right way to go, to put it very simply. And I will say it’s – it’s awesome knowing that there are a dedicated set of folks, yourself in the driver’s seat of this, working to make sure that this is a thing, and that it continues to get better. And that insiders will have to worry less and less about this being something that affects them over the longer term.

LAURA FINCH: Exactly.

JASON HOWARD: Laura, I have to say, this has been a fantastic conversation, I really, really enjoyed chatting with you. Hopefully, the insiders have learned a thing or two along the way, especially with all those helpful troubleshooting links. And if any of the insiders that have listened to this, if you find out that you’re not current, give those tidbits a try. And then if you have trouble after that, you can always reach out to us on Twitter, just visit us @WindowsInsider. Or, you can go visit us on the Answers forum at aka.ms/fwip, which is an abbreviation of forums for WIP, and then drop us a message there and we’ll do our best to get you back on track. So, that all being said, Laura, thank you, once again, for being on. Thank you for making the time. It’s been great having you, and no doubt, we’ll have you back on again in the future as things continue to evolve.

LAURA FINCH: Yeah. Thanks for having me. It was a good time. I’m glad to talk to everybody doing the good work out there as Insiders.

JASON HOWARD: Awesome. Thank you again.

LAURA FINCH: Thanks, bye.

[MUSIC]

JASON HOWARD: When the word currency is used, people often first think about money. Truth is, however, build currency is just as valuable! Staying up to date is vital in the preview build space; we want to ensure you stay secure and receive all the great content you’re expecting! Besides, who wants to be stuck on an outdated build and not have the latest update? Not me, and I doubt you do either!

We selected Currency as the subject of this month’s podcast not only because it’s important, but also because it’s a topic that isn’t often brought to the forefront of conversation. And while this isn’t a scenario that affects large numbers Insiders, it’s something that is good for all to be aware of. Knowledge is power!

And with that Windows Insiders, this episode draws to a close. As always, thank you for tuning in to the Windows Insider podcast! Join us for a new episode each month, and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite app.

Until next time!

ALLISON SHIELDS: The Windows Insider Podcast is hosted by Jason Howard and produced by Microsoft Production Studios and the Windows Insider team. Listen to our previous podcasts and visit us on the web at insider.windows.com. Follow us @windowsinsider on Instagram and Twitter. Support for the Windows Insider Podcast comes from Microsoft, empowering every person and every organization on the planet to achieve

Project: Windows Insider podcast Detail: Episode 38 Talent: Jason Howard (host), Laura Finch (guest) more. Join us next month for another fascinating inside look into Microsoft, tech, innovations, careers, and the evolution of Windows.

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