John Snrma,n is one of the totemic figures of British jazz, ot:Leof tJre select number revered and admired in Britain a.nd abroad, both fsr his technical skills and for his audacious approach io jazz and improvised music. His latest album The Spa.cesIn Between is just one of a raft of new projects that Surmal is involved with in the coming year, showing a wide ra-ngie of tJre saxophonist's interests. tt{tWY$nffiW:t'l}\31i{} &-7ll Zlt XT4TN&

-These hroughouthis 40-yearcareer, musiciansare reallyimportant to this saxophonistJohn Surman has project.There's a touchmore to makingthis pioneeredinnovation in jazz.His desire reallywork and that's the way in which to createnew spaces where improvisation can Trans4mation.who were also fans of Chris'and happenhas beena drivingforce in hiswork and my musicanyway, take care of themselveswhile has keothim at the forefrontof the music.He Chrisand I go off on flightsof fancy.We don't has developedthe useof electronicsin soloand haveto nursethem to makesure they come in at groupperformance and usedit to createa wholly the rightplace. Now, they knowinstinctively uniquecompositional and improvisationalstyle. whenlo playthe writtenparts and how,in a way, And he'sworked with everything from brass we will usethem as a rhythmsection. A normal 'romantic'string ensemblesand choirsto stringquatlets and full quartetwill bend the time, so orchestras. whenwe go off on a flightof fancy,we don't A few yearsago, John moved permanently alwaysend up in the sameplace together." to livein Norwaywith long-term partner, singer lf compositionhas becomean increasingly importantaspect of John'swork, it is as a means KarinKrog. The immediatereason for this usedto the way that l'm lookingat writing.So, ratherthan as an end in itself.For John: "The interviewis his forthcomingCD, TheSpaces /n thetwo thingshave gone hand-in-hand really." projects writingjust createsthese differeni places and Between.However, with so manyother Johnhad tried writing {or stringsbefore but texturesand waysof settingoff improvisation." comingtogether over the nexttwelve months, felt it lackedthat special thing to "makethe Thatin turn makesit essentialthal projectslike 2007will offer an embarrassmentof richesfor musiccome alive." Coruscatingor Proverbsand Songs,with its John'smany fans. "Youcould say it neededa bassbut actually organand choir,are allowedto growalmost The newCD featuresJohn with bassist it neededthe 'one and only'Chris Laurence to organically.InJohn's opinion, the constant ChrisLaurence and the Trans4mationsiring do it. He'sgot that incrediblelink between demandfor newwork stops that processof quartetand is a follow-upto Coruscatrng.Good workingwith orchestral string players and being naturalgrowth. thoughthat album was, Ihe Spacesln Between a perfectimproviser and someonewhose playing "l'm afraidthere is this questfor noveltyand is a totallysuccessful integration of writtenand I knowvery well." jazz,lolk newprojects, whereas I thinka lotof pieces,like improvisedmusic and of and classical Johnis spoton. ChrisLaurence is the bridge Proverbsand Songsbenefit from being styles.Indeed, it's one of the finestalbums John bothbetween those two worldsand between projecthas performed.The morewe've played it, the looser has evermade. I ask him howthis John'sreed instruments and the strings.But it's changedsince its beginningsseven years back. it'sgot, the moreit's revealed,the morefreedom. = also,the opportunityto workconsistently with a o "l thinkit's developed. We did a numberof But peoplesay, why don'tyou writesomething u coregroup that has transformed the music. 'Wait performances else?But lor me,it's a caseof a minutel' after we recordedCoruscating, Apparently,some promoters have wanted to take t Thisisn't a set pieceof musicthat will be o and we haddone a few beforeit. I thinka lot of shortcutsand makesavings by backingJohn ii grown l've performedthe sameway everytime. lt's a piece the musichas out of workingtogether. and Chriswith a localstring quartet. As John that'sliving and if you don'tkeep playing it, it realisedwhat the siringscan do and they'vegot exnlains.thev are missinothe Doint. ':a won'tgo anywhere."The titletrack of the new moremus cally acquainted. He alsoruns the seems . :nergsed by the experience. ''T' CD notonly illustrates this beautifully but reveals SarumOrchestra, which works on a project s ,:a' :f erewas this vibes player, Corey the partthat improvisationplays in John'slife as basis.and has commissioned several pieces Mwan':a ,',^:s realLyout there and Tom wellas in hismusic. fromme overthe lastfew years.Having done Alrhurs,',-: s',,eryinterested ln Braxton-style T-a- "lfonly I couldlive my lifein sucha severalimprovisations together in theprocess o: music _,JU ve gotother players like Finn structuredway that I knewwhere things were doingProverbs, it seemeda goodidea to havea Peters.,',-: ,',asmore interested in rapand ':o leadingand what their purpose was. But I really crackat ooinga recordand its great.I really bingrng:'a: it andNikki Yeoh, who seems don't.You've got this quite long solo piece that enjoyplaying with an organist.lt takesme back to cross:. e' a ot of differentareas. Last year, RitaManning plays in the middleof Ihe Spaces to my youthas a choirboy(laughing)." therev/as Da';e Stap eton, who's a freerplayer, ln Betweensimply because it emergedas we HowardMoody was an organscholar at and Gr^;i - S ncock andJulian Buckley, both -us wereplaying together. I thoughtit wouldbe really Oxiordand that prompts me to commenton the ve'yscro ) ec cianswriting very nice,if I couldplay the violin. I thought,what partplayed by improvisationin church music and sophisticaieoorchestral music. And again from wouldI playif I coulddo a violinsolo? So, I Baroquemusic in general. astyear Dave Okumu, who I endedup working ''Absolutely. wrotesomething to seewhat would happen. So, WhenI wasgrowing up the on y withat the ElectricProms last year because I 'Would it'sreally what I wouldplay but l'vewritten it out areathat any kindof improvisationtook place likedhis play ng Theysaid, youlike to dc 'Yeah, for Ritawho playsit magnificently." wasas an organistin church,filling in those t? andI said l'dlike to playwith him'." I thinkJohn is talkingabout the openness to awkwardgaps here and there. That improvising Johnsays that he's now worked with 16 possibilitythat lies at the heartof hiswork. Call it traditiononly really stayed alive in thatarea. For youngmusicians involved in theinitiative and "improvisation"or "chance",it allowsthings to anyother kind of orchestralplayer or'classical' thatif anyoneasked him where jazz was happen,that otheruise might not. Proverbs and player,you just didn't do it.They do now headed,he coud name16 different directions Songsis a casein point.Commissioned by the becauseit's starting to appearin musiccolleges, justfrom them. "l don'tknow who got most out o' SalisburyFestival in 1997,it wasperformed by lmprovisationis becomingpart of everyday it - whetherI gotenergy from them or theygot Johnwith John Taylor on thecathedral organ musicmaking and a goodthing too." somethingfrom me. There's no questionthat - andthe FestivalChorus conducted by Howard I askhim, if he'sheard the marvellous there'sa futureout there forthem and for this Moody,That connection leads us to anothernew ConwaySuite CD madeby DaveStapleton and music." album.due in theautumn featuring John and DeriRoberts featuring sax and churchorgan. Itwon't surprise then that teaching seems ' Howard,who is a highlytalented organist "Yes,l've heardit. I actuallymet Daveon one ol likelyto playa greaterpart in John'sfuture lile amongsthis other skills. When John Taylor was the TakeFive developmental projects." John's music."On the road stuff becomes less and less unableto makeperformances of Proverbs, takenpart in theseprogrammes over the lasttwo attractivenow. lt's reacheda stagewhere a - Moodywould stand in. yearsand is full of praisefor the young coupleof weeksof that and I needto lie down "Howardwould do it and do it very,very well. musicianshe's met and for the breadth of their a darkenedroom with a damptowel. lt's hard He'san imorovisertoo and so. we'vebecome interestsand ranqeof theirproiects. In fact,John workflying and that thing now about taking havethe barrierof the writtennote between you instrumentson planes.lt was neveras bad as it but it wouldbe terribleif the wholething stood andthe performance.To bringthat backto is now.At leastlive or six timeslast year, my stillor justwent round in circles.lt hasto Coruscating.my pointabout workrng together is instrumentshaven t arrivedand it'sgetting worse keepgoing." have that,after we ve playedthose pieces a few andworse. So, the possibility of spendinga bit As longas musicianslike John Surman times,the stringplayers aren't really looking at moretime in one placeand doingteaching looks theirsay, there's no chanceof the music the notesand counting.They hear their part. good.One or twopeople in Norwayhave made stagnating.The diversity of hismusic throws Then,once they're hearing their part, they're interestedinquiries, as to whetherI would downchallenges to hisown generation as well freerto playwith us." liketo do a bitmore teaching. I do as to thosecoming through now. Another album John,Chris Laurence and Trans4mation enjoyit." dueout later this year sees John's third premierelhe Spacesln Betweenat the Norwich John'smother was a schoolteacherand collaborationwith ex-Hilliard singer, John Potter, Festivalon 12 Mayand. as Johnsays. the music Johntrained as a teacherhimself after music on the latter'sEarly Music Dowland Project. fresh shouldsound fabulous in thatsetting. Hopefully, school.He's already running a regularworkshop CalledRomaria, it showsthat the sourceof past in otherdates will follow. Not that he'sshort of bandat Rainbowstudios in Oslowhich attracts a ideascan sometimeslie in the as wellas work.He's also touring Europe in theautumn lotof youngplayers and he and Karinhave also the present.Given John's interest in folkforms' it's withAnouar Brahem and Dave Holland and also beenworking with a BigBand in Bergen hisinvolvement is hardly surprising. Again' withJack DeJohnette's Ripple Effect project. featuringa lotof youngmusicians alongside the improvisationalquality of themusic that Whetherthese will getto the UK or not moreseasoned iazzers. So, it seemslike a attractsJohn. you remainsto be seen.And then there's a naturalprogression and, given John's voracious "You'vegot the freedomof fantasyand tourof Norwaywith a groupof Norwegian enthusiasmand desire to grow,I can thinkol few don'thave the Mozartpolice breathing down play musicians,so thatall makesfor a prettyfull betterpeople to makethat kindof contributionto yourneck. Of course,we realisethat to this card. futuregenerations of musicians. musicon a saxophoneinvolves a certainlicence dance I askJohn about the recentspate of reissues I suggestthat the musicscene is getting becauseit wasn'teven dreamed of backthen. his late60s and early70s work."l don'tfollow healthierafter that periodwhere everything Butthere's also the thing that this was a kindof of thata greatdeal because they come and go. becameso retrospective.Though John agrees lolkmusic in thesense that a lotof it musthave The greatjoy of ECMis thatyou makethe album thatthings had becomesomewhat stagnant' beenpassed on orallyand the compositional andthere it is and it's available.They're things I cerlainlystateside, he stillthinks there's a place sideof it is morebasic. lt was expectedthat the past.l'm not a greatlistener of my own 'or the traditionaljazz repertoire. thesesimple notes would be decoratedand did in Once,l've done an albumit goes "lt'san interestingstage we've reached in developedin someway. As writtencomposition thingsanyway. shelfand that's it. l'm concernedwith :he music.lt was BarrePhillips, who saidthat il developedthe detailsstarted to get on the comingnext. I did a longinterview with youlook atjazzas a tree,the trunkhas stopped filledin untilyou reach the point of Webern what's SonnyRollins for the BBC. He doesn't listen to crowing.There's no directline now, as therewas whereevery nuance is refinedto the hisown things either but we bothagreed. DetweenLouis Armstrong, Roy Eldridge and smallestdetail." laughingat eachother, that maybe we should DizzyGillespie that was Iheiazz tradition. Now, ForJohn teaching music orally is a valuable just to thoseold thingsbecause maybe we :.sjust the branchesof the treethat are growing wayof heloingmustcians learn more than listen learnfrom them. Karin tells me the same andgoing off in all differentdirections' lt's thenotes on thepage. He comparesthis with the could it for areasnow. waythat Mingus and Monk developed thing.But from my pointof view I can stand :'anchedout intoso manydifferent 'Oh, a whilebut then it's, no!Not him again!' A BJt perhapsthat retro thing is somethingthat theirmusicians capacity to playtheir percentwas given when we madethem -as to be done,for example,to keepEllington's comoositions. hundred if there'sanything there lhat -usic alive.The last thing I heardof the Lincoln "TakeMonk. like with Rollins and Coltrane or I didmy best.So, people,then fine. And a CenterOrchestra was with lllinoisJacquet and it whoever,you went to Monks houseand he interests 'nusrc. just playing lot goodplaying goes on alongsidewhat I :o soundquite interesting. lt was nice to hear didn'tgive you the He kept of you wasdoing."I r.Jngerplayers able to understandthat music thetune until you iearni t. Thatway didn't