CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 137 Ï NUMBER 109 Ï 1st SESSION Ï 37th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Monday, November 5, 2001 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire´´ at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 6901 HOUSE OF COMMONS Monday, November 5, 2001 The House met at 11 a.m. On December 9, 1997, the chair of the RCMP public complaints commission launched an investigation into these complaints. Following that investigation, a panel made up of three members Prayers was established on February 20, 1998, to hear the complaints. The hearings began on April 14, 1998 and ended in December of the same year, following the resignation of its members. PRIVATE MEMBERS BUSINESS On December 21, former justice Ted Hughes was appointed Ï (1105) interim commissioner to head an inquiry, which ended in the presentation on July 31 of an interim report of 453 pages plus [Translation] appendices. INDEPENDENCE OF THE RCMP I must criticize the fact that, three months after its release, the Ms. Pierrette Venne (Saint-BrunoSaint-Hubert, BQ) moved: report is still unavailable in French. Once again the government is That, in the opinion of this House, the government should, pursuant to failing to comply with its own laws. recommendation 31.3.1 of the interim report of the RCMP Public Complaints Commission on the events that took place during the APEC conference, set out in Since the production of the report, apart from the fact that the writing the nature and scope of the RCMP's independence in its relations with the RCMP, through Commissioner Zaccardelli, has publicly admitted its government. responsibility, the Hughes report has practically fallen into oblivion. She said: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to begin this hour of debate on The terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11 Motion No. 391, which I presented. have certainly not helped. However they must not serve as a pretext for the government to avoid matters that might embarrass it. While the September 11 events did have a significant impact on the business of the House since the reopening of parliament, the fact Given the excessive powers that could be given to the police remains that even if certain issues have lost some of their priority, under the bill, it is all the more important to set out the nature of the they remain as important as they were before September 11. relations between the RCMP and the government, if it is to avoid finding itself in hot water once again. All the questions relating to interference by the Prime Minister's entourage in RCMP operations during the APEC conference are In addition, it is useful to point out that the RCMP's mea culpa among these issues. First, since the events that triggered the motion was expressed four years after the events in question, and the before us occurred over four years ago, I will briefly review the facts. recognition of its errors has cost the taxpayers nearly $10 million. From November 19 to November 25, 1997, the city of Vancouver The point of this motion is therefore to provide for the codification hosted the APEC conference. During that event, which was attended of police independence in order to set standards for the RCMP's by officials from various regions of Asia, the RCMP was the police relations with the government. force responsible for security. That essentially meant ensuring the security of 75 persons, including 12 who required a maximum level Despite the fact that this motion will likely never be acted on, for of protection. reasons I will explain later, we hope that it will, at least, ensure that the report does not end up forgotten on a shelf under a pile of dust, During the last day of the summit, when conference participants something that is too often the case for reports criticizing the were at a retreat at the Museum of Anthropology, located on the activities of the government. campus of the University of British Columbia, students and others voiced their opposition to the political systems of certain APEC To get right to the heart of the matter, let us start with subsection 5 members. (1) of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act, which provides, and I quote: The events that followed and involved protesters and RCMP officers resulted in the filing of 52 formal complaints against the The Governor in Council may appoint an officer, to be known as the Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, who, under the direction of actions of these officers. These 52 complaints were grouped into 17 the Minister, has the control and management of the Force and all matters connected categories reflecting as many situations and events. therewith. 6902 COMMONS DEBATES November 5, 2001 Private Members Business We see immediately from this that the RCMP is not totally Conversely, the situation would be just as bad if we gave carte independent from the government. Despite the legislative power the blanche to the RCMP without requiring it to be accountable. In this solicitor general retains over the force, the RCMP in fact enjoys case, we are talking about the state exercising control, not influence, substantial independence under common law. as was the case with APEC. No matter how we look at it, it is both Ï (1110) inevitable and necessary that the state and the RCMP maintain some sort of link. At this point, what appears at first to constitute a conflict with the principle of independence does not in actual fact cause a problem. If we consider all of this as it applies specifically to the APEC On the one hand, unless it should become a private police force, events, clearly, the government's intervention, or rather, interference which is most certainly not what we want, the RCMP cannot exist according to the Hughes report, was inappropriate. Obviously the independently of a connection with the government. Hence the RCMP was not present in Vancouver as a part of its mandate to fight necessity that it be under the auspices of a department, in this case crime. Its mandate was limited to providing security for an the department of the solicitor general. international events. In order to carry out this mandate, it had to work in close co-operation with government officials. However, this As Commissioner Hughes states in his report, even if the nature co-operation should have been based on security considerations, and scope of the independence of the RCMP has no clearly defined rather than political interests. Unfortunately, we now know that this basis in legislation, the existence of that independence is acknowl- was not the case. We now know that the problem with the edged. In a supreme court judgment, Regina v Campbell, it was involvement of the RCMP at the conference occurred at two levels. clearly established that, when its actions are aimed at enforcing the law or carried out within the framework of a criminal investigation, the RCMP is generally totally independent of the executive power. First, as Commissioner Hughes points out, the performance of the RCMP was noteworthy for its glaring lack of professionalism and In this connection, the following is an excerpt from Justice standards of acceptable competencies. Binnie's decision: While for certain purposes the Commissioner of the RCMP reports to the Solicitor Ï (1115) General, the Commissioner is not to be considered a servant or agent of the government while engaged in a criminal investigation. The Commissioner is not He felt that there were two reasons for this: a failure to co-ordinate subject to political direction. Like every other police officer similarly engaged, he is answerable to the law and, no doubt, to his conscience. planning and operations, and an inability to anticipate events. As far as the law is concerned, we agree with the judge. As far as In addition, in his final remarks, he mentioned that the conduct of conscience is concerned however, I prefer to abstain from an the police was inappropriate in the circumstances and completely opinion. Regardless, along the same lines, in a reference to the contrary to the charter. This alone is extremely troubling and worthy Commissioner of Police in R. v Metropolitan Police Commissioner, of attention. Worst of all is the possibility that political interference Ex parte Blackburn, in 1968, Lord Denning stated as follows: may have been one of the causes of this mess. He must decide whether or not suspected persons are to be prosecuted; and, if need be, bring the prosecution or see that it is brought; but in all these things he is not the servant of anyone, save of the law itself. No Minister of the Crown can tell him In his report, the commissioner emphasized that he did not agree that he must, or must not, keep observation on this place or that; or that he must, or with the contention of counsel for the complainants that, in ensuring must not, prosecute this man or that one. Nor can any police authority tell him so. the personal attendance of Indonesian President Suharto, the The responsibility for law enforcement lies on him. He is answerable to the law and government would have taken care to see that he was not to the law alone. embarrassed. Hence the premature takeover of the Museum of Once the premises have been established, the following holds. Anthropology, the extent of the security perimeter and the noise-free First, the government must not under any consideration exercise zone.