CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 142 Ï NUMBER 058 Ï 2nd SESSION Ï 39th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Monday, March 3, 2008 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) Also available on the Parliament of Canada Web Site at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 3507 HOUSE OF COMMONS Monday, March 3, 2008 The House met at 11 a.m. women risked their lives with self-induced abortion or turned to charlatans. Prayers Fifth, by educating, teaching values, fighting poverty, ensuring respect and dignity for people, achieving equality between the sexes, PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS fighting for justice and supporting pregnant women, we can Ï (1100) hopefully decrease the number of abortions or even eliminate them entirely. A doctor told me the following: “With all the resources we [Translation] have available to us now, there should be no more abortions. But we UNBORN VICTIMS OF CRIME ACT need to promote these resources, which a number of religious institutions refuse to do to this day.” The House resumed from December 13 consideration of the motion that Bill C-484, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (injuring or causing the death of an unborn child while committing an offence), be read the second time and referred to a committee. The Speaker: When the matter was last before the House, the Sixth, I also said in my speech that the president of the Quebec hon. member for Repentigny had the floor and there are eight office of the Campaign Life Coalition is a fundamentalist and an minutes remaining in the time allotted for his remarks. extremist who judges and condemns everyone who does not share his narrow views on life, and he does so in the name of God. That is Mr. Raymond Gravel (Repentigny, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I think not my God or anything like the God of Jesus Christ in the Gospels. I that my remarks were misrepresented after I spoke to this bill in the have been on radio shows with this man, Mr. Gagnon, and he has not House in December. That is why I would like to set the record once shown any compassion for people who are marginalized and straight today. I think this is in order because my bishop and the excluded. But I think that is what the Christ of the Gospels would do. apostolic nunciature in Ottawa have received a number of e-mails. I want to clarify and qualify a few things. First, I am against abortion. I regard human life as sacred and abortion as always being a tragedy in our society. We must do Seventh, it is interesting to note that not one of the letters in which everything in our power, while showing respect for those involved, people insulted, threatened and condemned me was sent to me to limit the number of abortions and promote life. personally; they were all sent to my bishop or to the apostolic Second, I sincerely believe that human life starts at conception, nunciature. The least people could have done would have been to and even before. From the moment that a couple decides to have a send the letters to me too, since they do concern me. Moreover, the child, the process has already begun. I have never said that I agreed letters were written in English only. Can it be that people with the decision of the Supreme Court of Canada whereby a child misunderstood what I said because my comments were made in becomes a human being when it has completely proceeded, in a French with simultaneous interpretation in the House of Commons? living state, from the body of its mother, and that until then, it is not Why did no francophones write to criticize what I reportedly said? I distinct from its mother. I simply quoted the definition given by the get the feeling that comments made by two people, John-Henry Supreme Court of Canada. I understand it, even though I disagree Weston in LifeSiteNews.com and Mr. Jalzevac, incited this taking up with it. of arms. This is the second time a reporter working for that website has attempted to discredit me. Third, the high number of abortions is distressing. We must identify the causes to be able to find solutions: lack of sexual knowledge, poverty, violence, emotional deprivation and lack of values, just to name a few. After I appeared on a Télé-France broadcast with Luck Mervil and Fourth, the recriminalization of abortion will not solve the Imam Jaziri in Quebec, I received emails that misrepresented the problems I mentioned, since before abortion was legalized, many statements I had made during the meal. 3508 COMMONS DEBATES March 3, 2008 Private Members' Business Eighth, in my pastoral experience as a Catholic priest, I learned Furthermore, two separate offences would not necessarily mean that I could change things only by welcoming others, by being non- more jail time. In Canada, unlike the United States, multiple judgmental and open to people, through tolerance, dialogue, sentences are often served concurrently. I bring up our neighbour to communication, compassion, forgiveness and unconditional love, the south for a reason. As many of my colleagues well know, this and by living my faith. One cannot change things with rules, laws, type of bill has been passed in several U.S. states. This bill does have punishment, warnings, exclusions and condemnation. I do not some impact there because jail sentences are often served believe that this bill offers any solutions to the problem it sets out to consecutively, thus actually increasing time served. I would also solve. That is why I think we should vote against this bill. like to note that it is also the same country where there is an active attempt to ban access to abortions for American women at the state I would like to end with the words of St. Vincent de Paul, friend to and federal levels. The supporters of this type of bill are the very the poor and unfortunate, who said that it is better to free 20 guilty same people actively working to ban abortions. people than to condemn a single innocent one. (1105) Ï The evidence is clear. To date, courts across Canada have blocked [English] provincial attempts to substantially regulate the issue of abortion, Mrs. Irene Mathyssen (London—Fanshawe, NDP): Mr. Speak- finding that the pith and substance of such attempts is actually an er, Bill C-484 proposes changes to the Criminal Code that will have attempt to recriminalize abortion through the back door. no real positive effect, but rather will potentially jeopardize a woman's right to choose. Bill C-484 essentially represents an indirect recognition of an This proposed private member's bill would have two charges laid unborn child as a person with legal status. Such an initiative could against a person who kills a pregnant woman. This would in effect have significant ramifications in a number of different areas of law give legal rights to a fetus and change the definition of when a fetus and opens a Pandora's box in the abortion debate. becomes a person under the law. Currently a fetus is not considered a person until actual live birth. I believe it is essential to this debate to discuss an area of concern that the Conservative government has failed to address, and that is, While I will not argue that murdering a pregnant woman is of course, violence against women. Homicide is a leading killer of particularly abhorrent, this bill will in the end do more harm than pregnant women and it is well known that violence against women good for women's rights in Canada. increases during pregnancy. This House has heard from some who may contend that this bill has nothing to do with abortion and is just about ensuring that What the government needs to address is better measures to someone who murders a pregnant woman will pay doubly for his or protect women in general and pregnant women in particular from her crime. However, this bill is the thin edge of the wedge as it will domestic violence. A fetal homicide law would completely sidestep change the definition of when a fetus becomes a person. the issue of domestic abuse and do nothing to protect pregnant This change will have an effect on the legal status of abortions in women from violence before it happens. It would also do nothing to Canada. Canadians, Parliament, the courts and the Senate all made a protect women who are abused shortly after giving birth. determination on this issue and have supported a woman's right to choose. This is not something that needs to be opened to debate Before we start talking about laws to protect fetuses, the again. government has an obligation to make sure that women's rights are protected first by addressing the systemic problem of domestic Canadian women fought long and hard for the right to safe, legal violence. If a woman is safe, her unborn child is safe. abortions in Canada. Women have been forced to put their private lives under scrutiny in the courts in the fight for the right to choose. Ï (1110) If we take away that right, women in desperate situations will have to take desperate measures, like a young woman who in 1989 bled to death after attempting to perform an abortion on herself. This In Canada, women have guaranteed rights and equality under our tragedy was the result of fear and despair and happened while the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.