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Core 1..188 Hansard (PRISM::Advent3b2 10.50) CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 144 Ï NUMBER 069 Ï 2nd SESSION Ï 40th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Friday, June 5, 2009 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) Also available on the Parliament of Canada Web Site at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 4235 HOUSE OF COMMONS Friday, June 5, 2009 The House met at 10 a.m. their mandatory minimum sentences with other states considering the same. Prayers We have a former counsel to the United States House of Representatives committee on the judiciary, Eric Sterling, who stated emphatically his decision to promote mandatory minimum sentences GOVERNMENT ORDERS in the United States was probably “the greatest mistake of my entire career over 30 years in the practice of law”. What the Americans Ï (1000) found was that the goal of the legislation to reduce drug use failed. [English] The goal of safety in the communities failed. The goal of raising the prices of drugs and lowering the purity failed. The goal of reducing CONTROLLED DRUGS AND SUBSTANCES ACT organized crime failed. The House resumed from June 4 consideration of the motion that Bill C-15, An Act to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other I know that we in Canada like to follow the United States, but Acts, be read the third time and passed, and of the motion that this clearly this is another example where we are totally out of step, question be now put. where the Americans have tried the experiment and it has failed. Now the government for purely political and polling reasons wants The Speaker: Order. When the bill was last before the House, the to move in this area. hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona had the floor and there were 18 minutes remaining in the time allotted for his remarks. I therefore call on the hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona. Let us look at what has happened under the mandatory minimum Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker, sentences in New York. We saw a dollar for dollar trade-off in I am pleased to continue my speech on the bill. I spoke for just two increased expenditures for prisons versus higher education. That is minutes yesterday, so I will continue on today with the bill. really smart is it not, to spend money on prisons by taking away money from higher education. That is not a very smart use of We had very knowledgeable speakers yesterday on this topic. taxpayers' money. They provided some very convincing arguments, I thought, why the bill is not a particularly good idea. I would like to cite more reasons for that being the case. In addition, while drug use is pervasive among every social or I think the bill came up through the Conservative Party process, economic group, 95% of all people incarcerated for drugs in New the election process, the polling process. It probably polled the York were poor African Americans or Latinos. public and asked Canadians if they agreed with minimum sentences. Of course, the numbers went right off the radar and the In 1986, when the legislation was enacted, the Federal Bureau of Conservatives said we will have to bring in legislation along these Prisons expenditure was $862 million. Two years later, it was $1.2 lines. billion. In 1991 it was $2.1 billion. Now the President's request for Perhaps if the Conservatives had polled a focus group asking a fiscal 2010 is over $6 billion. different question, they might have received a different response. Had they looked at the reality of how mandatory minimum sentences have actually worked for 30 years in the United States and if they That gives us an idea of how the expansion in prisons has had looked at other aspects to this type of legislation, they might developed in the United States. That is a mirror of what will happen have received a different response in their polling. here in Canada. At the end of the day we are going to be building a huge number of prisons. We are going to start privatizing them For example, would they have asked people if they would support because that is part of the corporate ideology of the Conservative mandatory minimum sentences, if it was known that the United Party. It is to turn over public assets to the private sector so that it can States was repealing its mandatory minimum sentences. California, get in the business and try to make a profit keeping people in jail. New York, Michigan, Delaware, Massachusetts are all repealing Clearly, that is a failed strategy. 4236 COMMONS DEBATES June 5, 2009 Government Orders Yesterday, it certainly brought out the lawyers in Parliament. We happened in Manitoba, and perhaps encourage the big private have five lawyers out of 38 members in our caucus. I heard from insurance companies in Ontario to come out with a program like that. many lawyers yesterday and I must admit that it was a beautiful experience. They knew what they were talking about. They Our calculations are that we took an original hit by installing the presented arguments and there are times when we should be immobilizers, but we were paying out such large amounts of money listening to lawyers. for stolen vehicles, damaged vehicles, not to mention the fact that people were being killed by people who stole cars and were involved Ï (1005) in accidents, that we were able to cut this back in a substantial way. If there were ever a time, this would be one because they know the Clearly, there is a role here for the Insurance Bureau of Canada to system. They understand the system and they were not all just from learn by these examples and encourage their member insurance the NDP and the Bloc. There were members from the Liberal Party companies to do something to encourage private insurance as well who spoke eloquently about this legislation. So maybe there companies in the rest of Canada to bring in a similar type of are some lawyers over on the government side who just close their program. ears, close their eyes to this situation, because they are being told by their management that this is something they have to do for political That is what the bottom line here is. Members of the Liberal Party, purposes. for whatever reasons, have decided to support this legislation and I think I know why that is, but given their druthers they would rather It was also pointed out yesterday that if we bring in the mandatory not. minimum legislation, it will bring an end to guilty pleas. Part of our Ï (1010) system and the reason it works reasonably well at times is that people will plead guilty. When they are caught, they decide it is The fact of the matter is that the members of the NDP, the better just to plead guilty and be done with the charge. When we members of the Bloc, and the members of the Liberal Party, in bring in legislation like this, guilty pleas will come to an end and is general, would prefer to support legislation where there is proof that that something that we really want in our system? I am all in favour we are going to get some results. That is the bottom line. Why would of tougher legislation. I am not easy on crime, but I want to see we be bringing in legislation that we know from the very beginning things that work and the government has brought in some pieces of is not going to work? crime legislation that will work. But this one in particular is one that will not work. I want to deal with some of the details of the bill. I would like to I want to give an example of something in Manitoba that has also point out, as my colleague the member for Churchill yesterday worked really well and that is the key here. We should be looking at pointed out, how recreation centres are very important for getting dealing with issues where we can find evidence that it actually people away from crime. We had in my constituency a community works. Winnipeg had the highest auto theft rate in Canada for a club called Kelvin community club. It had survived the Depression, number of years. About four years ago the government auto insurer, so that will give us an idea of how resilient this little club was. As a because we have public auto insurance as they do in B.C. and matter of fact, Clara Hughes, an Olympic medallist in two sports, Quebec, brought in a program to install immobilizers in cars. People trained in that club and her mother lives just a few blocks from the were offered a $40 discount on their insurance if they installed club. immobilizers. The mayor of Winnipeg, after promising not to close any People did not buy in. Nothing happened. Did we conclude from community clubs, changed his mind and forced this little club to that to scrap the program because it did not work? No, we took close. What they are now doing in Winnipeg, as they are in other another look at it and said that offering the $40 discount was areas, is they are developing these super centres where we have to obviously not enough, but we had to solve the problem. We decided get into our cars and drive two or three miles to get some exercise.
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