Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta Alaska Federal Subsistence Regional Advisory Council Meeting

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YKDELTA REGIONAL COUNCIL FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE MEETING 9/28/2018 YKDELTA REGIONAL COUNCIL FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE MEETING - Vol. 3 3

YUKON-KUSKOKWIM DELTA ALASKA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING

PUBLIC MEETING

VOLUME III

Yupiit Piciryarait Cultural Center Bethel, Alaska September 28, 2018 9:00 a.m.

MEMBERS PRESENT:

Alissa Rogers, Chair Robert Aloysius John Andrew David Bill James Charles Raymond Oney Michael Peters

Regional Council Coordinator, Eva Patton

Recorded and transcribed by:

Computer Matrix Court Reporters, LLC 135 Christensen Drive, Suite 2 Anchorage, AK 99501 907-243-0668/[email protected]

Computer Matrix, LLC Phone: 907-243-0668 135 Christensen Dr., Ste. 2., Anch. AK 99501 Fax: 907-243-1473 Email: [email protected] YKDELTA REGIONAL COUNCIL FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE MEETING 9/28/2018 YKDELTA REGIONAL COUNCIL FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE MEETING - Vol. 3 3

Page 259 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 3 (Bethel, Alaska - 9/28/2018) 4 5 (On record) 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The time now is 8 9:00 o'clock and we'll go ahead and get started here. 9 We'll be starting with fisheries proposal on the Yukon 10 fisheries proposals FP19-05. Ms. Pippa Kenner. Oh, 11 let's see if there's updates. 12 13 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 14 We have just a couple requests on the agenda. We were 15 running a little late due to the little rearrangement 16 yesterday. We do have a couple folks that were needing 17 to depart on the noon flight. We were wondering if we 18 might be able to provide an update on the Togiak Refuge 19 very quickly first thing this morning and then get into 20 the Federal subsistence fisheries proposals. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. It looks 23 like we're all nodding our head. 24 25 MS. PATTON: Okay, thank you. 26 27 MR. ANDREW: We need to suspend the 28 rules. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, do we need 31 to suspend the rules? 32 33 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair, the Council 34 could agree to rearrange the schedule at this time if 35 the Council wishes. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So do I just say 38 that we suspend the rules? 39 40 MS. PATTON: Sure. We can suspend the 41 rules and allow a change in the agenda. That would be 42 fine. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 45 Let's go ahead and suspend the rules and change the 46 agenda around. We're going to have Togiak come up and 47 present and then we'll get back to our Yukon fisheries 48 proposals. 49 50

Page 260 1 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 2 If we can also touch base on teleconference and see who 3 has joined us this morning so we know who we have 4 online. We have familiar faces here in the audience. 5 We were hoping that Lester Wilde, Sr. could join us 6 this morning. I did give him a call. We'll see if 7 he'll be able to join us by teleconference. 8 9 Okay. 10 11 Thank you. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Folks, for those 14 on teleconference -- Eva, did you want roll call for 15 the teleconference or how did you want to proceed with 16 that? 17 18 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 19 We can start out with introductions on teleconference 20 and then we'll get to roll call to address whether we 21 have quorum today. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, thank you, 26 Eva. For those of you on teleconference go ahead and 27 state your first name, last name and your 28 representation. 29 30 MR. PAPPAS: Good morning, Madame 31 Chair. George Pappas, Office of Subsistence 32 Management. 33 34 MR. DECOSSAS: Gary Decossas with the 35 Office of Subsistence Management. 36 37 MR. HARRIS: Good morning. Frank 38 Harris with the Office of Subsistence Management. 39 40 MR. BURCH: Good morning. This is Mark 41 Burch with the Department of Fish and Game. 42 43 MR. SMITH: Good morning. This is 44 Nicholas Smith with the Alaska Department of Fish and 45 Game. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hi. Who just 48 joined us? Your first name, last name and affiliation. 49 50

Page 261 1 MS. JALLEN: This is Deena Jallen with 2 the Alaska Department of Fish and Game in Anchorage. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Do we 5 have any public members attending online. 6 7 (No comments) 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any tribal 10 representatives. 11 12 (No comments) 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you very 15 much for those of you online. We'll go ahead and Mr. 16 Oney would you be able to do a roll call for us this 17 morning. 18 19 MR. ONEY: Yes. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 22 23 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 24 James Charles. 25 26 MR. CHARLES: Here. 27 28 MR. ONEY: John Andrew. 29 30 MR. ANDREW: Here. 31 32 MR. ONEY: Michael Peters. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: He was here. 35 36 MR. ONEY: Yeah, he was here. I've 37 seen him. Alissa Rogers. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Present. 40 41 MR. ONEY: Raymond Oney here. Robert 42 Aloysius. 43 44 MR. ALOYSIUS: Here. 45 46 MR. ONEY: David Bill, Sr. 47 48 MR. BILL: Here. 49 50

Page 262 1 MR. ONEY: We have a quorum. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 4 Oney. All right. We'll go ahead and get started with 5 Togiak Refuge. 6 7 Thank you. 8 9 MS. HENRY: Good morning, Madame Chair 10 and members of the Council. I'm Susanna Henry. I'm 11 the Refuge Manager at Togiak National Wildlife Refuge. 12 You all might remember that headquarters is over in 13 Dillingham, but we do manage part of Game Management 14 Unit 18, specifically the part with the Kanektok River 15 and the Arolik River, which I'm going to reference in a 16 minute. 17 18 We have a report and information 19 bulletin for you that's in the packet for the meeting. 20 It starts on Page 359. When we submitted that, we have 21 had a few changes to our staff. The part about the 22 staff is at the bottom of Page 364. I'm pleased to 23 announce that we have a new Refuge Information 24 Technician in the village of Togiak, a gentleman names 25 Thomas Dock. 26 27 He just started working in the middle 28 of August and Thomas has been doing a great job. He's 29 looking forward to going to AFN, Alaska Federation of 30 Natives, and participating at the Youth and Elders 31 Conference next month. We're going to have a booth 32 there for the Fish and Wildlife Service and our RITs 33 from around the state will be there and he's looking 34 forward to that. 35 36 By way of Refuge Information 37 Technicians though, we had John Mark, who is in the 38 village of Quinhagak retire. I will say that he did 39 sign a volunteer agreement and he's been doing a lot of 40 volunteer work. He's also going to go to the Youth and 41 Elders Conference. We'll be announcing a vacancy there 42 in Quinhagak for a Refuge Information Technician soon. 43 44 Today is the last day for our Deputy 45 Refuge Manager Allen Miller. He's been at the Togiak 46 Refuge for 22 years. He retires today and he and his 47 family are moving to Colorado. I'm sad about that. 48 While we've gained an RIT, we're really down on staff. 49 We hope to be able to hire more in the future, but we 50

Page 263 1 have been limited by budget. 2 3 What I wanted to bring up to the 4 attention of the Council is that over in the Kanektok 5 drainage and the Arolik drainage we had a Federal 6 closure on the Refuge lands for moose hunting that we 7 no longer feel is appropriate. The moose numbers have 8 gone up, both by observation and by survey, and we're 9 working with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. 10 11 We've made contact with the village, 12 with Mr. Ferdinand Cleveland who is with the council 13 there, and we're trying to do something to lift that 14 closure and have a more liberalized moose harvest 15 opportunity there. I'm not sure how it actually is 16 going to take place, but that's good news and we want 17 to work more in the future on increased moose 18 opportunities. 19 20 That's all I have in terms of just 21 pointing out a few highlights. If you have any 22 questions for me, that would be great. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 25 26 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 27 We've had some meetings here in Bethel and this year we 28 heard that Bristol Bay had record salmon returns and 29 they didn't say what they were. I know the reds and 30 the sockeye is the big run, but I was wondering about 31 -- because we are low and hurting on the Kuskokwim for 32 chinook. Chinook, dog salmon and not too many 33 sockeyes, but they were good numbers and they return in 34 good numbers. That's what we put up this summer. 35 36 Thank you. 37 38 MS. HENRY: Mr. Charles, through the 39 Chair. Absolutely. It was a phenomenal year for 40 salmon returns in Bristol Bay. I observed the barge 41 arriving in Dillingham with a lot of new vehicles that 42 a lot of the fishermen have. They didn't really brag 43 about it, but I think they did very well. They got a 44 good price for their salmon as well. 45 46 I think there was one day on the fish 47 counting tower on the Wood River just downstream of 48 like Aleknagik, I believe it was July the 2nd, that 49 they've never had so many fish pass in one day. Just 50

Page 264 1 phenomenal numbers of fish, so it's been something to 2 see. 3 4 Oh, just one more thing. The reason I 5 need to leave early is we're having an open house 6 tomorrow at the Refuge headquarters with hands-on 7 activities. There's going to be a sausage-making 8 demonstration and an archery opportunity and artwork 9 for everyone and free food and a campfire where you can 10 cook your own hotdog and make your own s'mores. I need 11 to be back in time to help with that. 12 13 While I'd love to stay until the end of 14 the meeting, I've got to start making my way back at 15 midday. So thank you for the chance to go early. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you very 18 much. We greatly appreciated your report this morning. 19 Have a safe trip back home. 20 21 MS. HENRY: Thank you. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. 24 25 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 26 I just wanted to make an update in terms of quorum for 27 the Council. Michael Peters will not be able to join 28 us today and again Charlie Brown is out sick, so we're 29 wishing him well. I haven't gotten a response back 30 from Lester Wilde yet, but I'll keep an eye on my 31 phone. He might be able to join us this morning a 32 little later and perhaps after lunch before he heads 33 back out for bird hunting. 34 35 Thank you. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 38 We'll go to Yukon Fisheries Proposal FP19-05. 39 40 MR. ALOYSIUS: Madame Chair. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, sorry, Mr. 43 Aloysius. Yes. 44 45 MR. ALOYSIUS: You're supposed to go 46 with the people to be heard not on the agenda. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Perfect. Thank 49 you for the reminder. Do we have anybody in the public 50

Page 265 1 or people to be heard this morning on non-agenda items? 2 3 (No comments) 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have anyone 6 on teleconference? 7 8 (No comments) 9 10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 11 Aloysius. All right. Thank you, Pippa, for being 12 ready. 13 14 MS. KENNER: I just had somebody 15 telling me they're on board to give me support, so 16 there we go. Good morning, Madame Chair and members of 17 the Council. My name is Pippa Kenner and I work at the 18 Office of Subsistence Management. I'm here with you 19 this morning with Frank Harris, who is online, who is a 20 biologist that I work with. 21 22 We're going to be looking at Proposal 23 19-05. We're going to be looking at the rest of the 24 Yukon proposals and then we're going to back around to 25 19-01, which is also a Yukon proposal, but we missed it 26 in the row. So just to let you know we're going to 27 start with 05 and go sequentially through the proposals 28 and then we're going to back around to 01. 29 30 So Proposal 19-05 was submitted by 31 Alissa Rogers of Bethel and requests the Federal 32 Subsistence Board remove the requirement of fin 33 clipping subsistence-caught chinook salmon in the Lower 34 Yukon River Districts 1, 2, and 3. The proponent 35 submitted a similar proposal to the Alaska Board of 36 Fisheries to take up at its AYK finfish meeting on 37 January 15-19, 2019 38 39 The proponent states that fin clipping 40 does not prevent people from selling subsistence-caught 41 chinook salmon into the commercial fishery because only 42 a few Yukon subsistence fishermen do this. The 43 proponent states that the existing regulation is 44 burdensome on subsistence fishermen without any 45 benefit. 46 47 I'm moving on to the effects of the 48 proposal which starts on Page 290. If the proposal 49 were adopted, there would be a reduction of 50

Page 266 1 requirements on Federally qualified subsistence users 2 on Federal public lands in Districts 1-3. Effects on 3 the salmon stocks are likely negligible. 4 5 Although this proposal would reduce the 6 requirements for subsistence harvest for Federally 7 qualified users, there are some potential drawbacks 8 that may occur. State and Federal regulations would no 9 longer be the same, for example. Additionally, this 10 proposal may make it easier for subsistence-caught fish 11 to end up being illegally sold into the commercial 12 market. 13 14 If the proposal was not adopted, the 15 subsistence fishery in Districts 1-3 will continue to 16 clip fins on subsistence-caught chinook salmon under 17 State regulations. Federal and State subsistence 18 management regulations would remain the same. 19 20 The OSM preliminary conclusion is to 21 support Proposal FP18-05 with modification to to allow 22 Federally qualified subsistence users to harvest 23 chinook salmon without clipping the 24 tails when the commercial sale of chinook salmon is not 25 allowed. 26 27 Fin clipping is not a traditional 28 practice and in some regions of Alaska, marking 29 requirements have been described as burdensome and 30 disrespectful to cultural ways of life. Given the 31 limited opportunity for commercial sale of 32 subsistence-caught chinook salmon, there is no need to 33 burden subsistence users with marking requirements 34 meant to prevent illegal sale of chinook salmon. 35 36 The modification to require fin 37 clipping once the commercial sale of Yukon River 38 chinook salmon is announced, removes an unnecessary 39 burden on subsistence users, but leaves in place a 40 requirement to clip fins as a deterrent to illegal 41 sales of subsistence-caught fish. 42 43 Requiring fin clipping once the 44 commercial sale of Yukon River chinook salmon is 45 announced is necessary for law enforcement to 46 effectively track and differentiate salmon harvested 47 under Federal subsistence fisheries and State 48 commercial fisheries. Given the proximity of these two 49 fisheries in both space and time, the opportunity for 50

Page 267 1 illegal sale of chinook Salmon may be elevated in times 2 that sale of the species is allowed. 3 4 Curbing such illegal sales is essential 5 to prevent overharvest as a means for some rural 6 residents to earn cash from an illegal activity. While 7 fish marking requirements are warranted during these 8 specific and recently limited times, they are not 9 warranted all the time. 10 11 Thank you. 12 13 That's the end of my presentation and 14 Frank and I are available to answer your questions. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you have any 17 comments. Mr. Charles. 18 19 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 20 Where is District 3 at on the Yukon? 21 22 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. Thank you 23 for that question, Mr. Charles. There is a map on Page 24 280 of your meeting materials if you wouldn't mind 25 going to that because that indicates where District 3 26 is. It's just past Ohogamiut to before Holy Cross. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 29 comments or questions for Pippa. 30 31 (No comments) 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 34 I'm going to tribes if there are any. 35 36 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 37 The Federal Subsistence Board did conduct tribal 38 consultation and ANCSA consultation on these proposals, 39 however we did not receive any formal comments. Next 40 up would be the agency reports, ADF&G. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Ms. 43 Holly Carroll. 44 45 MS. CARROLL: Good morning, Madame 46 Chair. Holly Carroll, Alaska Department of Fish and 47 Game. I'm the summer season area manager joined by 48 Gerald Maschmann, the Federal in-season manager. I 49 won't spend too long on this proposal because it's sort 50

Page 268 1 of similar to a lot of the rationale we described about 2 prosecuting an orderly commercial fishery and 3 subsistence fishery. A lot of the rationale behind the 4 introduction of this marking law is the same as what I 5 described yesterday. 6 7 I will acknowledge that I'm sure it is 8 a burden for fishermen to have to do this in years when 9 we're not having commercial fisheries, but the reason 10 the Department opposes this proposal as written is that 11 if you remove it from the books Federally and it stays 12 on the books in State regs, that would be very 13 confusing to fishermen. 14 15 The other thing is that we haven't 16 outlawed the commercial sale of kings. It's just that 17 run sizes have made commercial sale not an option, but 18 in 2017 our run size was so big there was a 19 commercially harvestable surplus available and we made 20 a quick decision to allow a commercial sale. So having 21 the flexibility to require that marking in order to 22 help with enforcement has a large effect particular 23 when a single fish might fetch $100 for a fisherman. 24 25 So just something to consider. We 26 oppose losing that flexibility for that enforcement. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any comments, 29 questions. 30 31 (No comments) 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing and 34 seeing none. Go ahead. 35 36 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann with 37 the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Again we oppose 38 for the same reason that Holly Carroll with ADF&G has 39 stated. There hasn't really been much of a commercial 40 fishery for chinook and we haven't really required 41 subsistence fishermen to clip their fins if there 42 hasn't been a commercial fishery. Again, fingers 43 crossed, maybe they do come back in numbers where we 44 can start to look at that. It's definitely something I 45 think we need for enforcement and to maintain an 46 orderly fishery. 47 48 Thank you. 49 50

Page 269 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. I do 2 want to remind everyone that this is a twin proposal to 3 Department of Fish and Game. Any comments or questions 4 now. 5 6 (No comments) 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 9 Native or tribal? Mr. Parent. 10 11 MR. PARENT: Madame Chair. Members of 12 the Council. Thank you very much for giving me the 13 opportunity to speak on behalf of the Marshall 14 Traditional Council here. In consultation with the 15 president, he states that lifting the clip restriction 16 would be a benefit to the people of Marshall. The 17 subsistence harvest of chinook is burdensome already 18 and given this type of regulation adds additional 19 burden that seems unnecessary. 20 21 The unfortunate thing is what I want to 22 comment on is that there seems to be an overcast view 23 of subsistence fishermen as being bad. I don't see 24 that. The subsistence harvest that I see in Marshall 25 are people that are genuinely looking to feed their 26 family, fill their freezers for the winter. 27 28 I can't fathom, you know, the wholesale 29 commercial sale of subsistence in my area. It just 30 seems odd to me that people would do that. Granted it 31 may have happened in the past. I don't see it 32 happening today. It just seems this pall is cast from 33 those past actions. 34 35 I would like to see the State of Alaska 36 and the Federal government put their trust in the 37 people that we will do the right thing. This type of 38 burdensome regulation is one of those efforts showing 39 that they have no trust in us. Where is the trust? 40 This also abrogates the fact with the Federal 41 government their duly appointed 42 government-to-government relationship with the people 43 on the Lower Yukon. 44 45 This does not reflect that, this type 46 of burdensome regulation. I implore you here here on 47 the Council to hear and I know yesterday I sat in front 48 of you for two, at least two, proposals that were shot 49 down. I hope to God that this doesn't fall on deaf 50

Page 270 1 ears. I am pleading you, begging you to hear this and 2 maintain our sovereignty with regards to regulations. 3 Burdensome regulations. 4 5 Ray, from Marshall, you know how 6 burdensome king salmon fishery subsistence is. I've 7 seen people up until 3:00, 4:00 in the morning putting 8 away fish. The additional step that is required on a 9 regulation in this matter just adds additional 10 hardship. 11 12 Thank you. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 15 Parent. Do we have any other tribes online. 16 17 (No comments) 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any in the 20 audience. 21 22 (No comments) 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. We'll 25 go ahead and go into Interagency Staff Committee. 26 Who's pointing? Oh, Mr. Phillip go ahead and come. 27 28 MR. PETERSON: (In Yup'ik) 29 30 INTERPRETER: Good morning. Our 31 brothers and sisters upon the Yukon River they go out 32 subsistence fishing for their own use and they also do 33 commercial fishing up on the Yukon. If this proposal 34 goes through, then they will be affected. The 35 subsistence fishing will be affected and so I don't 36 think that there should be double -- I look at this as 37 a double whammy for the subsistence fishermen up at the 38 Yukon. 39 40 So our subsistence rights, we have our 41 own subsistence laws and there's also another 42 regulation in place for commercial fisheries. A lot of 43 us have been following all these regulations forced 44 upon us and it always comes to a head that these 45 regulations are overburdening for us and all these 46 regulations are just heavy on our shoulders, on our 47 minds and on our bodies. 48 49 Our ancestors used to tell us -- their 50

Page 271 1 teachings brought peace because we followed their 2 requirements and we had no problems and our ancestors 3 did not burden us with all these regulations or 4 whatnot. So all those teachings that we have gone are 5 not burdensome, but they did tell us that when the fish 6 are running that you should not be idle, that you 7 should be getting out there and harvesting fish. 8 9 So we do not need to intertwine all 10 these regulations. We do not need to intertwine at all 11 any of these regulations with putting subsistence and 12 commercial fish into one regulatory impact. So we need 13 to keep these two separate and we really do need to 14 look at these two sides. If the regulations that are 15 being proposed and if we're going to abide by these 16 proposals, we really do need to go through these with a 17 fine-tooth comb and if it is not burdensome, then we 18 should wholeheartedly follow those regulations. 19 20 I know there's a guy who would cut up 21 the salmon from under the gill and under the fins and 22 with that, after they cut these fins, I guess that's 23 how they cut the fins and to identify which fish is for 24 commercial fishing selling and which is for subsistence 25 use. 26 27 When I saw this, I'm just bringing this 28 up because I see this as a double -- this is a proposal 29 that touches both subsistence and the commercial 30 fisheries and I don't want them intertwined. There's a 31 danger that if king salmon is caught for commercial 32 purposes, the king salmon that is caught by the 33 fisherman it's up to the fisherman to sell it or bring 34 it home to eat and that's what this is and that's how 35 this is. 36 37 Thank you very much. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 40 Phillip. Do we have any comments or questions for Mr. 41 Phillip. 42 43 Mr. Andrew. 44 45 MR. ANDREW: (In Yup'ik) 46 47 INTERPRETER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 48 I wanted to respond to the guy that was speaking 49 Yup'ik. I know that when they catch the king salmon on 50

Page 272 1 the Yukon they cut the fins because the clipping of the 2 fin is to identify that the king salmon is not going to 3 be bought by the commercial buyers. So I know on the 4 Kuskokwim River we have a saying by our forefathers 5 that when you catch a fish that you are not supposed to 6 be clipping anything. You're not supposed to be taking 7 anything. 8 9 I don't know which fins they clip over 10 there, but I think that's what they do. I know that it 11 was in the regulation that a fin needs to be clipped. 12 I know that's how it was written. I can understand 13 what this proposal is saying. 14 15 Thank you. 16 17 Quyana. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 20 comments. Mr. Charles. 21 22 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 23 I'm a commercial fisherman too on the Kuskokwim and we 24 have caught king salmon a few years ago down by 25 Tuntutuliak and we took the kings home because the 26 Department of Fish and Game told us to take home the 27 kings if we catch them. I was fishing for chums that 28 time and I caught a couple of kings and take them home 29 with no marks, nothing, but we can tell, we fishermen 30 can tell, the chums and kings and other species too. 31 When we know, we don't have to cut the fins but take 32 them home for subsistence use. We were allowed to do 33 that on the Kuskokwim a few years ago when we were 34 allowed commercial fishing. 35 36 Thank you. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 39 Charles. Anyone else. 40 41 (No comments) 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Further 44 discussion. Any more public members that would like to 45 comment. 46 47 Go ahead, Pippa. 48 49 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 50

Page 273 1 Members of the Council. This is Pippa Kenner with OSM. 2 I just wanted to make sure that everybody is clear on 3 what this proposal is. It's a little complicated to me 4 also. So the question is not between distinguishing 5 chinook salmon from other salmon. If chinook salmon 6 are harvested during a subsistence opening, that 7 they're not later sold into the commercial market. So 8 the chinook salmon are clipped during the subsistence 9 opening. 10 11 Thank you, ma'am. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 14 Do we have anybody online that would like to comment on 15 this proposal FP19-05. 16 17 (No comments) 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 20 We'll go into Regional Council recommendation. 21 22 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 23 Again, the Western Interior and Eastern Interior may 24 take up these Yukon proposals and they have not met yet 25 and the ACs have not met to provide comment either at 26 this time. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 31 32 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 33 There are no written comments either for this proposal. 34 35 Thank you. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 38 All right. Let's go ahead and get a motion on the 39 floor. 40 41 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 42 move to adopt FP19-05, repeal fin clip requirement of 43 subsistence-caught chinook in Districts 1, 2 and 3. 44 45 MR. CHARLES: Second the motion. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 48 Oney. Thank you, Mr. Charles. Let's go into 49 discussion and justification. Do we have any further 50

Page 274 1 discussion? Mr. Oney, I guess my question would be to 2 you how does this play out on your subsistence? 3 4 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 5 I'll comment on this. As you know, the people that 6 utilize the subsistence way of living have come a long 7 way. Since time immemorial we've enjoyed the resources 8 that we depend on out our back door. Ever since the 9 Federal and State people came into being, as of today, 10 we are the most over-regulated people on this planet of 11 our own resources that we depend on to sustain our life 12 and want to see that continue well into the future. 13 14 Our people have suffered way too many 15 times because of these restrictions. I'm sure at some 16 point in time ADF&G is going to have the ability to 17 open up king chinook salmon again sometime. Hopefully 18 we can see that in the future. 19 20 Again we heard from Holly that they 21 tried it last summer because there's abundance of king 22 and there was a lot of controversy as a result of that 23 further up the river because of the dependency that 24 they have on the chinook. Everyone that's utilizing 25 the resource on the river. 26 27 Like I said, we are the most over- 28 regulated people in the world on this planet. There's 29 got to be some point where we have to relax some of 30 these restrictions that are put on us to try and 31 restrain us and go towards the Western way of living, 32 but that's not going to happen. We'll always be here. 33 Our way of life will be here. It will never change. 34 It will always be that way. For that reason I will 35 vote to support this resolution. 36 37 Thank you. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 40 Oney. Any further comments, Mr. Aloysius. 41 42 MR. ALOYSIUS: (Shakes head 43 negatively). 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No. Mr. Bill. 46 47 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 48 49 INTERPRETER: We are continually 50

Page 275 1 following all these regulations and when they put 2 regulations up on we readily agree to the regulations 3 and what they tell us, but our forefathers have always 4 told when we told the unwritten rules that were given 5 to us by our ancestors which are not written, which are 6 oral traditions, and they are ingrained into our brain 7 and they will not be erased because we learned all 8 these by doing so and they ingrained it upon us that 9 these rules of catching game and those things that we 10 learned we are always passing them on to our younger 11 children. 12 13 Some of the Western people come to our 14 villages and they want to change our language and that 15 is not true because it's not the way of life for us. 16 And I know Mr. Oney just said that the forefathers that 17 have told us about the rules and laws of the land are 18 true and they are not burdensome. Because we always 19 readily agree to the regulations thrust upon us that's 20 what's really dividing us. 21 22 The first time in my life I heard that 23 there's some things taken off from the fish that is not 24 going to be sold. That is not true to be marring up 25 the game that we catch because our ancestors have told 26 us that you are to eat everything. You are not to be 27 clipping or cutting and throwing away what you do not 28 need from that. You need to harvest all of it. If you 29 waste any parts of the fish or the game that you catch 30 you will remember this during the famine periods. 31 32 We are not following all those 33 regulations because these regulations thrust upon us 34 and now we butt heads with each other because we are 35 looking for our best interests. I know the people come 36 into our villages and they say our faith, our language 37 is better than yours and it's written down and that's 38 because it's written down it's a rule, so they say they 39 supercede our unwritten rules. I know that all these 40 written regulations are always changing every year and 41 these regulations that are thrust into us by our 42 ancestors are never changing. They never ever change 43 and they're ingrained into us. 44 45 I keep saying let's find a common 46 ground for us because we need to see this as a 47 partnership, not one better than the other and that's 48 why I am saying that -- Mr. Oney just said something 49 that is very true because we are a people from head to 50

Page 276 1 the bottom. It is like that. It is not funny to us. 2 3 When a person comes into the village 4 and sees our way of life and I see the regulation, mine 5 is better than yours. Our ancestors have told us in 6 times past the words that -- they said that if you're 7 not going to eat everything that you catch, do not even 8 go hunting after whatever you are not going to eat 9 because what you catch you have to eat and that's our 10 number one rule with fish and game. So they did not 11 tell us this. I'll shoot it and I'll put it someplace 12 and I'll eat it later. They didn't tell us to store 13 it. 14 15 I know it's burdensome for us when they 16 come and they try to change our way of life that we 17 follow and I know they come and they tell us that all 18 these regulations are written so they supercede yours. 19 I know that some of it's true that some of the 20 regulations that are put upon us I do follow them. 21 22 I know when I start talking about these 23 things it's like I always defer to what my ancestors 24 have said because it's a lot better and it makes sense 25 and it's never changing. The gentleman from Akiachak 26 or I'm not sure where he's from, but I think the big 27 handsome man from upriver I know he has said that our 28 ancestors' words that were told to us are not 29 burdensome and it's for the betterment of our way of 30 life. 31 32 So if we follow these and if we quit 33 butting heads and start working together and find a 34 common ground instead of butting heads, instead of 35 trying to supercede the other, that would be better. 36 If we can review the laws, both the ancient and the new 37 regulations, if we look at these, then it will be 38 better for us. 39 40 Thank you. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 43 Bill. Do we have any further comments. Mr. Aloysius. 44 45 MR. ALOYSIUS: Could someone explain to 46 me why this clipping the fins came to be. I don't 47 think I've ever heard of this before. 48 49 Thank you. 50

Page 277 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Pippa. Thank 2 you. 3 4 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 5 Members of the Council. I think I would like to ask 6 for Frank Harris, if you don't mind, to talk about it a 7 little bit because he's very familiar with the history. 8 Frank, are you there? 9 10 MR. HARRIS: Good afternoon. This is 11 Frank Harris. I believe it came to be after early '90s 12 there was a case in the Lower Yukon where subsistence- 13 caught chinook salmon were being sold into the 14 commercial fishery. I can't remember all the details, 15 but there was a large amount of fish actually being 16 caught and sold and the fines to the commercial 17 processor was very large and expensive. 18 19 I don't know how many individuals were 20 involved with this, but there was a fair amount of fish 21 involved with this. I used to have the numbers written 22 down somewhere. I don't have them in front of me right 23 now, but after that the Board of Fish adopted the 24 regulation sometime like 1993, somewhere around them, 25 and they've been on the record ever since. 26 27 Thank you. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Would you be able 30 to double check on that 1993. I don't think it's been 31 that long because I was commercial fishing in 2000 32 through 2004 on the Yukon River and I don't remember 33 having to fin clip my fish then. 34 35 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair, thank you. 36 This is Pippa Kenner with OSM and Holly Carroll is next 37 to me and I think she has something to add. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ms. 40 Carroll. 41 42 MS. CARROLL: Yeah, I want to say that 43 in practice what Frank conveyed is correct as I know it 44 as well. The numbers of king salmon were thousands 45 over a period of time and all the individuals were 46 fined and apprehended, but the Board took these 47 actions. The exact year that this particular one went 48 into play I was doing initial research for the State 49 side. We haven't completed that full analysis and 50

Page 278 1 research, but I saw that the Board itself had passed 2 resolutions you can find on their website. I wrote 3 down that it was done in 2000 or 2002. So it's around 4 that timeframe that the Board put all three of these, 5 the marking of fish and then the shortening or creating 6 closures around commercial openings and those three 7 different things were done in an effort to try to 8 prevent further issues for enforcement. 9 10 MR. ALOYSIUS: What was the last word 11 you used? 12 13 MS. CARROLL: Further issues for 14 enforcement. That's why the Board put these things in 15 place. These kinds of marking, these kind of closures 16 around commercial openings, these are kind of used 17 throughout the state in various commercial fisheries. 18 It isn't specific to the Yukon whatsoever. 19 20 It's just that the Board itself had 21 generated resolutions around that time, but I don't 22 have the specific dates. It was around the year 2000. 23 I have a note here that this particular law went into 24 effect in 2007. I haven't done full research on that 25 particular, but it's been on the books for over 10 26 years. 27 28 MR. ALOYSIUS: What was the reason 29 behind that to clip the fins? Was there some reason 30 for that? 31 32 MS. CARROLL: Yes. So the rationale 33 for requiring the clipping of fins for subsistence- 34 caught fish is that, for instance, we don't limit the 35 harvest for subsistence. So if you have an opening, we 36 don't tell you how many kings you can go and get. So 37 let's say you have a boat full of king salmon and then 38 your subsistence opening closes. Some number of hours 39 later if there was a commercial period, if all the 40 subsistence fishermen comply and they cut those points 41 off the tail, it's just the two points of the tail, 42 then they could not sell those fish during a commercial 43 opener because many subsistence fishermen are also 44 commercial fishermen. But what had happened during 45 that case when a lot of illegal sales were happening is 46 fishermen were going out during the liberal subsistence 47 gillnet openings, storing the fish, no marks on the 48 fish, then they would sell them during an opening. A 49 buyer has no way of knowing where they got those fish. 50

Page 279 1 2 3 By requiring that at the end of a 4 subsistence period all of the fishermen's king salmon 5 in their boat are clipped there's no way that then that 6 fish could be saved and sold into a later commercial 7 opening. So the theory is that it prevents that 8 because the market doesn't want to see those clipped 9 fins, right, so the market is not going to buy fish 10 like that. So it's just a tool that's used in a lot of 11 places in the state when there's commercial fisheries. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Ms. Pippa. 14 15 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 16 This is Pippa Kenner. Holly, was there something that 17 occurred before 2007, like in 2006, that compelled the 18 Board to adopt this regulation in 2007? 19 20 MS. CARROLL: I'll reiterate that I 21 don't know the exact year it was adopted. What I do 22 know is that the Board wrote a series of resolutions 23 within the same Board cycle and it was closer to 2000 24 and it included marking fish and it is based on the 25 facts that Frank conveyed, a large-scale illegal 26 operation. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: If I remember 29 correctly, this proposal was submitted by a commercial 30 buyer to a Board. So a commercial buyer had submitted 31 this regulation to be put into the regulations if I 32 remember correctly. 33 34 MR. HARRIS: Good afternoon. This is 35 Frank. If I may real quick. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Please do. 38 39 MR. HARRIS: What I have here is that 40 in 1992 they started clipping off the dorsal fin and 41 that continued until 2007 is what I have here in my 42 notes. The clipping of the dorsal fin occurred earlier 43 in the '90s and then they switched it to clipping the 44 tail fin later on in 2000. 45 46 Thank you. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 49 50

Page 280 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: Is that to stop the 2 people from -- I mean to stop the sale of the salmon. 3 I just can't see doing an extra little thing like that. 4 It's a bothersome regulation. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 7 comments, questions. 8 9 Mr. Oney. 10 11 MR. ONEY: Thank you. For Holly. So 12 you have the authority to make decisions based on the 13 abundance of, let's say, for chinook. Let's say 14 there's a big lump of chinook coming into the river and 15 you decide to, based on the needs that are all up and 16 down the Yukon, they've met their needs, so you still 17 have the authority to make that decision to put the 18 sale of chinook on the market. 19 20 MS. CARROLL: Correct. The Department 21 has the authority based on sufficient run abundance to 22 open a commercial fishery. We haven't seen run sizes 23 except 2017 that would provide that harvestable 24 surplus, but if we do, again we do have the authority 25 to do that. 26 27 I did want to point something out and I 28 hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but there was a 29 point brought up in Pippa's analysis and it sounded 30 like a modification to your proposal that says instead 31 of just outright removing this regulation from the 32 books you could modify it to say when sale of king 33 salmon is allowed, like maybe in any given season, then 34 we could require by emergency order that fishermen clip 35 their fins. 36 37 I had not realized that was a suggested 38 modification, but to me as a manager personally that 39 seems like something that would be pretty reasonable, 40 you know, to tell people that, okay, now we're in a 41 season where commercial fishing is going to occur, 42 we're going to enforce fin clipping. So just a thought 43 there that if that's a modification, I mean that's 44 something that I as a manager do feel I could work 45 with. Obviously the State regs are different, but it 46 seems to make sense anyway. 47 48 Gerald, do you have something to add? 49 50

Page 281 1 MR. MASCHMANN: I think the 2 modification would be reasonable to the Federal manager 3 also. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Oney. 6 7 MR. ONEY: A follow up for Holly. 8 Based on last year's sale of chinook, what have you 9 learned from that? I'm sure there were a lot of people 10 that were outraged as a result of that. 11 12 Thank you. 13 14 MS. CARROLL: Well, that's a very 15 different topic to what you're addressing today, but, 16 Madame Chair, if I may address Mr. Oney's question. 17 What made the sale controversial was that people 18 weren't expecting it, that we didn't explain to the 19 public that there was enough fish for a commercial and 20 that's why we were going to do it. People were just 21 used to no sale of king salmon. 22 23 They also felt that people would target 24 king salmon because it was not a king salmon directed 25 fishery. It's a chum salmon fishery and we just made 26 the choice to allow the chum salmon fishermen who are 27 out there fishing with six-inch chum gear that if they 28 did catch any king, they call it incidental catch of 29 king, that they could sell those. But I think people 30 were afraid that they would target kings or it would be 31 too large of a number of kings. 32 33 In the end that one single commercial 34 opening they got about 62,000 chum in a single opening 35 and all of those fishermen combined caught 168 king 36 salmon and they sold those. So it's a very -- you 37 know, it can be a very small proportion of the run when 38 they're out there fishing for chum, but it was 39 controversial in that we hadn't allowed a king sale 40 since 2007. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Ms. 43 Holly, I know that in the past when we were starting to 44 adjust to the crash of the kings that people were 45 starting to get outraged and starting to do things they 46 wouldn't normally do to try to keep up with their 47 livelihoods because people were in a transition stage. 48 Like even here on the Kuskokwim when we went out to 49 subsistence fish camps we were getting shot at trying 50

Page 282 1 to get information. 2 3 On the Yukon people were trying to do 4 things to continue their lifestyles even though they 5 knew what was happening, but, like I said, there's a 6 transition stage. I understand now that even though 7 people are still coming around to that transition stage 8 it's not as -- how do I put it. People are coming 9 around to understanding our laws and regulations that 10 were put in place for the conservation measures of 11 chinook salmon. 12 13 I don't see people wanting to sell 14 their chinook salmon on the commercial fishery. And if 15 those few people now that would or might possibly try 16 to attempt to, it's going to be a very small number 17 because now people really value their kings. That's 18 one of the things I know people understand. They 19 really value their kings. I can't foresee that 20 happening except for those few. I know who those few 21 were and they got in trouble for it. It shouldn't make 22 it a hardship on the rest of us. 23 24 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. I 25 absolutely value the understanding you have of the 26 Yukon. What I want to clarify is that in my tenure of 27 working on the Yukon I've only been the manager for 28 three seasons, but I've worked in research on the Yukon 29 for over 14 seasons now. We have had incredible 30 compliance from the Yukon fishermen. We didn't see 31 protest fishing. 32 33 The minute that it became apparent that 34 the run would not support full harvest, while people 35 were upset and outraged and sometimes caught off guard, 36 the overwhelming public input on the river is that 37 we're all working together to conserve these fish for 38 the future. To that point subsistence fishermen are 39 very compliant with all these laborious regulations 40 that we have and they even take their own initiatives 41 to conserve king salmon. 42 43 When I get reports from U.S. Fish and 44 Wildlife enforcement and State Trooper enforcement at 45 the end of every year, the enforcement say everyone was 46 really in compliance. Occasionally you have a large 47 mesh gear that someone is still using or occasionally 48 they're fishing after a closure. Minor things. Like 49 you say, there's very few bad apples and our 50

Page 283 1 enforcement training we will learn that it's less than 2 3 percent of the population will break the rules and 3 our subsistence fleet are not breaking the rules. 4 5 It is important to know that the 6 commercial enterprise is a money-making enterprise and 7 it's not that it's subsistence fishermen that will 8 break the rule, it will be commercial fishermen who 9 have a financial gain from it. I don't expect that it 10 happens a lot. In fact, I know that it does not happen 11 a lot. But Department of Fish and Game and enforcement 12 do just need some flexibility and some tools to make 13 sure that we can monitor that and we can reduce any of 14 that. I saw no evidence of that in the one king salmon 15 opening we had. 16 17 Yeah, I have every faith in our 18 fishermen and I want that to be very clear that the 19 fishermen themselves are leading the charge on 20 conservation. So this regulation is not meant to hurt 21 everyone. Like I said, the modification discussed that 22 if we changed it by EO, that only when we're selling 23 king salmon is the marking required. That seems pretty 24 darn reasonable. 25 26 If we're not going to sell kings for 27 three years, to have every subsistence fishermen clip 28 them is a burden. So aside from the enforcement issue, 29 you know, that's really the only issue that this 30 regulation is about. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Yes, 33 please. I keep forgetting your name. I'm sorry. 34 35 MR. RISDAHL: Greg. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ray. 38 39 MR. RISDAHL: Greg. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Greg. 42 43 MS. KENNER: Maybe you should introduce 44 yourself, Greg. 45 46 MR. RISDAHL: Madame Chair. Members of 47 the Council. My name is Greg Risdahl. I'm the new OSM 48 fish subsistence lead. A couple things. I've been in 49 this business for over 30 years, fish and wildlife 50

Page 284 1 management, and one thing that I've learned is rules 2 and regulations are not put into place for the 3 convenience of law enforcement. 4 5 Let me put it simply. It's kind of 6 like disciplining children in elementary school 7 classroom. One person is a bad apple, right. He's 8 disrupting the classroom. You do not discipline the 9 entire classroom. In this case that's kind of what's 10 going on. This has been in place at the convenience of 11 law enforcement. Are you disciplining the entire 12 population of people living up and down the Yukon, the 13 Kuskokwim, wherever, because one or two people did 14 something they shouldn't have done? Just something to 15 think about. 16 17 Thank you. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Going 20 back to the proposal. It is to remove the requirement 21 of fin clipping subsistence-caught chinook salmon in 22 the lower districts of Districts 1, 2 and 3. We do 23 have a motion on the floor. 24 25 Do we have any further discussion. 26 27 (No comments) 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have 30 anybody in a Yukon village on teleconference? 31 32 (No comments) 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Do we 35 have any further discussion. Any further comments. 36 37 (No comments) 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 40 41 MR. ONEY: Question. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The question has 44 been called. Mr. Oney, would you please do a roll call 45 vote. 46 47 Thank you. 48 49 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. I just want 50

Page 285 1 to clarify are you adopting the OSM conclusion or the 2 proposal itself? Right now you're adopting the 3 proposal itself, which is fine. I just wanted to make 4 sure we're clear. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So as of right 7 now we are -- the motion on the floor is to adopt the 8 proposal to remove the requirement of fin clipping 9 subsistence-caught chinook salmon on the Lower Yukon 10 River in Districts 1, 2, and 3. 11 12 Mr. Bill, do you understand the 13 proposal? We're going to vote. Interpreter, could you 14 translate for him. Reread the proposal. 15 16 (Interpreter translates proposal in 17 Yup'ik) 18 19 MR. BILL: My vote would be no. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you want to 22 keep the regulation on? 23 24 MR. BILL: No. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 27 28 MR. ONEY: He's referring to the king. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh. You want to 31 keep the fins on? 32 33 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 34 35 INTERPRETER: We like to eat the fin. 36 37 MR. ALOYSIUS: Madame Chair. Could you 38 share with us what you guys talked about. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We're trying to 41 discuss on how to help everyone understand the 42 proposal. We'll take Pippa, see what you have to say. 43 44 Thanks. 45 46 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 47 Eva and I, the Council Coordinator, we're just talking 48 and we should probably clarify what your vote means. 49 So on this motion if you vote yes, fin clipping will be 50

Page 286 1 removed. You will no longer need to fin clip. If you 2 vote no, you will continue to be required to clip fins. 3 Are there any questions? So if you vote yes, you will 4 no long need to clip fins. If you vote no, you will 5 continue to have to clip fins. 6 7 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council, 8 if I may. So voting yes on this proposal would remove 9 that regulation. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Bill, did you 12 understand her explanation? 13 14 MR. BILL: Yeah. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Mr. 17 Andrew. 18 19 MR. ANDREW: Question on the motion. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The question has 22 been called. We'll continue on with roll call. 23 24 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 25 Roll call for FP19-05. Raymond Oney. Yes. 26 27 Alissa Rogers. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I'll abstain. 30 31 MR. ONEY: Robert Aloysius. 32 33 MR. ALOYSIUS: No. 34 35 MR. ONEY: Michael Peters not here. 36 37 David Bill, Sr. 38 39 MR. BILL: No. 40 41 MR. ONEY: John Andrew. 42 43 MR. ANDREW: Yes. 44 45 MR. ONEY: James Charles. 46 47 MR. CHARLES: No. 48 49 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. We have three 50

Page 287 1 no, two yes, one abstain. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: What does that 4 mean, Eva. 5 6 MS. PATTON: Motion fails. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 9 10 MR. ALOYSIUS: Motion what? 11 12 MS. PATTON: Motion fails. We had two 13 yeses and three nos and one abstain, so motion fails. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did you guys want 16 to take up with the modification? There was a 17 suggestion for the modification. So this one would be 18 if we wanted to go with the modification, we would take 19 up the motion with the modification. 20 21 Eva. 22 23 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 24 Correct. If the Council would like to revisit this 25 proposal with the modification that was discussed to 26 have the regulations removed except for in time of 27 emergency when there would be a commercial chinook 28 harvest. So if the Council would like to consider that 29 proposal, the Council may do that. So it would be 30 taking up the main motion with that modification. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 33 34 MR. ALOYSIUS: Does that mean that's a 35 totally different proposal? I would like to hear what 36 the modification is. 37 38 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 39 This is the same proposal, but there was a modification 40 that was discussed by both OSM and Holly. Perhaps we 41 can have Pippa refer to that modification again if the 42 Council would like to consider it. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Ms. Pippa. 45 46 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair 47 and Council. This is Pippa Kenner again with OSM, so 48 I'm going to read the OSM preliminary conclusion. The 49 regulation would read: If the State of Alaska has 50

Page 288 1 announced that chinook salmon can be sold in 2 the commercial fisheries, then you may not possess 3 Chinook salmon taken for subsistence purposes unless 4 both tips or lobes of the tail fin have been removed 5 before the person conceals the salmon from plain view 6 or transfers the salmon from the fishing site. 7 8 Would you like me to repeat it or are 9 we okay? 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 12 13 MR. ALOYSIUS: The first motion was a 14 failure and this one is the same motion with the 15 modifications. How does that make this one better than 16 the other one? 17 18 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. This is 19 Pippa Kenner again. I don't think anybody has made a 20 motion to engage this proposal again. The way that the 21 adoption or the deliberation of proposals is that 22 before you adjourn proposals can be re-deliberated. 23 Once you adjourn, then we can't deliberate them 24 anymore. 25 26 It's up to the Council. 27 28 There is no motion on the floor yet. 29 30 MR. ALOYSIUS: I realize that, but we 31 just voted on a motion that failed by removing the fins 32 or the clip. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: That was the 35 original motion for the proposal, but it was brought 36 and discussed that we could include the motion for this 37 proposal or, sorry, the modification. So the support 38 of the modification would -- maybe you could simplify 39 it, Pippa. Mr. Aloysius. 40 41 MR. ALOYSIUS: We already moved on the 42 motion and it failed and now you want to move with the 43 modification or the same motion with modification. 44 45 That's two different ball games here. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Pippa. 48 49 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 50

Page 289 1 This is Pippa Kenner again. So you don't have a motion 2 on the floor, so there's really nothing to discuss yet. 3 4 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council, 5 if I may. The Council can make a motion that includes 6 a modification in it so you can simplify that process. 7 If you'd like to revisit this proposal in order to take 8 up that modification for consideration and the 9 discussion that was had in terms of what that 10 modification would do is it would eliminate -- if 11 passed, it would eliminate the regulatory requirement 12 to clip fins except for in the case when there would be 13 an allowed chinook commercial fishery and then it could 14 be reinstated at that time, so that's distinguishing 15 chinook that's caught in the subsistence fishery from 16 the commercial fishery, but it would remove the burden 17 from subsistence fishers otherwise if there is no 18 chinook commercial fishery. 19 20 That's what was discussed both in the 21 OSM modification and then the ADF&G anthropologist had 22 explained that if there's not a commercial fishery on 23 the river, then this regulation is not an issue. So 24 it's kind of a compromise, I guess, is what that 25 modification allows to remove the regulations now, but 26 to have it come into play if there was a chinook 27 commercial fishery. 28 29 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. What I was 30 going to say as far as process, there's two issues at 31 stake. One issue is that there may be some Council 32 members who really don't want to discuss this again, 33 but the other issue is the process and I just want to 34 assure you that what you're doing is a typical process 35 where people bring up, discuss, maybe they amend, the 36 amendment isn't approved, but they go on to the 37 proposal as written. 38 39 What you're doing is fine. It's an 40 orderly conduction -- you're conducting the meeting 41 orderly and people are speaking and giving their point 42 of view and you can move on with the motion. It's 43 perfectly allowable and common. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 46 47 Mr. Oney. 48 49 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 50

Page 290 1 was going to say maybe you could explain a little bit 2 about the special action. Maybe that's something that 3 can be considered if there is a commercial sale of 4 chinook. 5 6 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann with 7 Fish and Wildlife Service. Again, the Federal manager 8 doesn't manage the commercial fishery, but we do 9 jointly manage the subsistence fishery with the 10 Department. So it would depend on the wording of the 11 special action. So I don't know what special action 12 you would want Fred to initiate. Would you be asking 13 Fred to do a special action to not make fin clipping a 14 requirement? Is that the road we're going down? 15 16 MS. KENNER: Uh-huh (affirmative). 17 18 MR. MASCHMANN: Okay. 19 20 MS. KENNER: When there's a commercial 21 opening. 22 23 MR. MASCHMANN: When there's a 24 commercial opening you would not want fin clipping or 25 you would want fin clipping? 26 27 MS. KENNER: Hey, you know, I'm going 28 to back up a little bit. I just confused myself. This 29 is Pippa Kenner. I think that the issue is is that if 30 this regulation is modified so that if it says if there 31 is a commercial fishery, you must fin clip. It's in 32 regulation and Fred, through special action, wouldn't 33 do anything. 34 35 Even though the State regulation would 36 continue to be you must fin clip all chinook salmon 37 that you catch in the subsistence fishery, this 38 regulation would supercede that regulation. So 39 Federally qualified users, residents of the drainage, 40 would no longer need to clip unless there was a 41 commercial fishery. Of course, the commercial fishery 42 is announced by the State, by ADF&G. 43 44 If you modified this to the OSM 45 modification which says you do not need to fin clip 46 unless chinook salmon can be sold into the commercial 47 fishery, it will supercede anything the State does 48 concerning fin clipping. 49 50

Page 291 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I think we have 2 too many cookies in the jar right now. Our brains are 3 getting jumbled. Can we go ahead and take a 10-minute 4 break. Eva. 5 6 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 7 I was just going to try to clarify. I think Ray Oney's 8 question was if this proposal with the modification was 9 passed, if the fin clipping was only required during 10 times of a chinook commercial fishery, how would that 11 special action be implemented to..... 12 13 MS. KENNER: It would be in regulation. 14 15 MS. PATTON: So I think Pippa was 16 clarifying. So it would be in regulation. It wouldn't 17 require a special action. It's when the commercial 18 fishery was prosecuted, then it would require the 19 clipping of fins at that time. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Let's go ahead 22 and take a 10-minute break. 23 24 Thank you. 25 26 (Off record) 27 28 (On record) 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, folks. It 31 looks like we're all seated back up here. We'll go 32 ahead and call this meeting back to order. The time 33 now is 10:49. I'm looking for a motion on the floor 34 about what we we're currently talking about. 35 36 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council, 37 if I may. There was a lot of discussion and then we 38 took a break. So just to reiterate the discussion 39 before the break the Council was discussing bringing up 40 a new motion to adopt Proposal FP19-05 with 41 modification. The previous motion failed but this 42 would be a new motion if it's brought up with 43 modification. What would be helpful, my understanding, 44 as the Chair, the motion would need to come from 45 someone else if you'd like to..... 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. He 48 had a question, I think, or a comment. 49 50

Page 292 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: I move that we approve 2 FP19-05 with the modification presented by OSM. 3 4 MS. PATTON: Mr. Chair and Council, if 5 I may read..... 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The motion has 8 been made. Do we have a second. 9 10 MS. PATTON: Can we please just read 11 the modification into the record. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, yes. 14 15 MS. PATTON: The motion and the 16 modification so the Council is aware. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The motion has 19 been made to adopt Proposal FP19-05 with modification 20 to allow Federally qualified subsistence users to 21 harvest chinook salmon without clipping the 22 tails during times that the commercial sale of chinook 23 salmon is not allowed and provide an updated language 24 only one time in the regulations to avoid redundancy. 25 26 MR. ALOYSIUS: And a second. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And we need a 29 second. 30 31 MR. ANDREW: Second. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 34 Andrew. We'll go into discussion and justification. 35 36 (No comments) 37 38 MR. CHARLES: Question on the motion. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The question has 41 been called. Mr. Oney, would you please do a roll 42 call. A yes vote would be in support to remove fin 43 clipping..... 44 45 MR. ANDREW: Requirement. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....requirement 48 on subsistence with the modification that it only be 49 during the times of the commercial sale of chinook 50

Page 293 1 salmon. Correct? 2 3 MR. ALOYSIUS: Madame Chair, what do 4 you mean by remove subsistence? 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, remove the 7 fin clipping..... 8 9 MR. ALOYSIUS: (Away from microphone). 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, would you be 12 able to reiterate the correct one. 13 14 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 15 So Alissa did read the main proposal. So supporting 16 this proposal it would remove the regulation to require 17 clipping of fins on subsistence-caught chinook. 18 Council is also in this motion suggesting a 19 modification which during times of a chinook commercial 20 fishery that that fin clipping regulation would be in 21 place. 22 23 So the regulation would be removed 24 until such time that there's a commercial fishery and 25 then -- for chinook -- and that would allow clipping of 26 fins -- the requirement of clipping of fins just during 27 that timeframe. 28 29 So it would remove -- if passed, the 30 regulation to clip fins would be removed unless there's 31 a commercial fishery and then the managers have the 32 ability to require that regulation during times of 33 commercial fishing of chinook. 34 35 So it provides some flexibility. That 36 was the discussion in terms of any concern for 37 subsistence-caught chinook being sold in the commercial 38 fishery. However, as was noted, there has not been a 39 commercial fishery for chinook for about 10 years. 40 They had a small sale last year. So if a commercial 41 fishery was opened, then that fin clipping would be in 42 place again. 43 44 Thank you. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 47 So a yes vote is saying we're removing the regulation 48 on chinook salmon of fin clipping and only need to clip 49 fins during commercial fishing. 50

Page 294 1 MS. KENNER: When chinook salmon can be 2 sold. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, here we go. 5 Thank you, Pippa. If the State of Alaska has announced 6 that chinook salmon can be sold in the commercial 7 fisheries, then you may possess chinook salmon taken 8 for subsistence purpose unless both tips of the tail 9 fin have been removed before a person conceals the 10 salmon from plain view or transfer of the salmon from 11 the fishing site. 12 13 MS. KENNER: I think you missed a 14 contraction, may not possess. 15 16 (Pause) 17 18 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 19 This is Pippa Kenner again. To clarify the reason why 20 I'm up here is that in order for you to reflect back 21 the motion it must be stated in the way the regulation 22 is being modified. So I'm going to read it again. 23 24 If the State of Alaska has announced 25 that chinook salmon can be sold in the commercial 26 fisheries, then you may not possess chinook salmon 27 taken for subsistence purposes unless both tips or 28 lobes of the tail fin have been removed before the 29 person conceals the salmon from plain view or transfers 30 the salmon from the fishing site. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Oney. Make 33 sure you guys understand it. Do you guys understand 34 it? You understand? 35 36 Okay. 37 38 Mr. Oney. 39 40 MR. ONEY: Roll call vote for 41 modification on FP19-05. 42 43 MS. PATTON: With modification. 44 45 MR. ONEY: With modifications. 46 47 MS. KENNER: With OSM modification. 48 49 MR. ONEY: A yes vote would mean you're 50

Page 295 1 in support. No means that you do not support it. Roll 2 call vote. James Charles. 3 4 MR. CHARLES: Yes. 5 6 MR. ONEY: Mr. Aloysius. 7 8 MR. ALOYSIUS: Yes. 9 10 MR. ONEY: John Andrew. 11 12 MR. ANDREW: Yes. 13 14 MR. ONEY: Raymond Oney, no. 15 16 Alissa Rogers. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Abstain. 19 20 MR. ONEY: David Bill, Sr. 21 22 MR. BILL: Yes. 23 24 MR. ONEY: Four yes, one no, one 25 abstention. 26 27 MS. PATTON: Motion passes. 28 29 MR. ONEY: Motion passes. 30 31 MS. KENNER: The next proposal begins 32 on Page 394 of your meeting materials. 294. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: What page? 35 36 MS. KENNER: 294. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Pippa. 39 40 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 41 Again, this is Pippa Kenner and I'm with the Office of 42 Subsistence Management in Anchorage and online with me 43 is Frank Harris, a biologist at the Office of 44 Subsistence Management. We're going to present the 45 analysis of FP19-07. The analysis begins on Page 294 46 of your meeting books. 47 48 This Proposal FP19-07 was submitted by 49 the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta Subsistence Regional Advisory 50

Page 296 1 Council and it requests the Federal Subsistence Board 2 add dip nets to the gear types allowed for the 3 subsistence harvest of salmon on the Yukon River 4 drainage. It's already legal to use dipnets to harvest 5 non-salmon fishes, so this is to allow the subsistence 6 harvest of salmon with a dipnet in the Yukon River 7 Drainage. 8 9 According to the proponent, dip netting 10 has been a traditional method of fish harvest for many 11 communities on the Yukon River but is not currently a 12 legal gear type for the harvest of salmon under Federal 13 subsistence regulations. The Council has noted that it 14 is allowed for commercial salmon 15 harvest on the Yukon River by Alaska Department of Fish 16 and Game Emergency Order. Dipnets have proven to be an 17 effective method of catching chum salmon with safe live 18 release of chinook salmon. 19 20 I'm going to be moving to the end of 21 the analysis to 310..... 22 23 MR. ALOYSIUS: What page? 24 25 MS. KENNER: 310. And I'm going to 26 talk about what the effects of adopting this proposal 27 might be. Adoption of this proposal as submitted will 28 allow for more subsistence fishing opportunity for 29 Federally qualified subsistence users on Federal public 30 lands in the Yukon River Drainage. Effects on the 31 salmon stocks would likely be negligible. 32 33 Although this proposal would increase 34 opportunities for salmon harvest for Federally 35 qualified users, State and Federal regulations would no 36 longer be aligned, complicating enforcement of these 37 regulations and creating confusions about where and 38 when the gear is legal. Dipnets can be fairly 39 effective at harvesting fish in the Yukon River 40 Drainage during times of lower abundance, so managers 41 would need to be aware of fishing effort with this gear 42 type and manage appropriately. 43 44 However, the selectivity of this gear 45 type can make it an excellent tool when there is a 46 conservation concern on one or 47 more species while executing a mixed stock fishery. If 48 no change is made, the Federal subsistence fishery will 49 not allow dip nets to be used to harvest salmon. 50

Page 297 1 However, Federally qualified subsistence users will 2 still be allowed to harvest salmon with dipnets by 3 emergency order from ADF&G during times of chinook or 4 chum salmon conservation. 5 6 The OSM preliminary conclusion is to 7 support the proposal with modification to allow the 8 Federal in-season manager to additionally require the 9 live release of chinook, chum or coho salmon during 10 times of low salmon abundance rather than only chinook 11 Salmon. 12 13 So the regulation would read: Salmon 14 may be harvested by dipnet at any time except during 15 times of conservation. The Federal in-season manager 16 may announce restrictions on time, area and species. 17 18 I'm done with my presentation. 19 20 Thank you, Madame Chair. Members of 21 the Council. 22 23 We're available to answer your 24 questions. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ms. 27 Pippa. Give them a minute to digest. 28 29 (Pause) 30 31 MR. ALOYSIUS: Madame Chair. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 34 35 MR. ALOYSIUS: I thought -- or is it 36 just that dipnetting is a tool but it's not in 37 regulation? 38 39 MS. KENNER: That's a good question. 40 Thank you, Mr. Aloysius. Through the Chair. So on the 41 Kuskokwim River dipnets are in Federal regulations as 42 subsistence gear for all fish, but on the Yukon River a 43 dipnet is not allowed to harvest chinook salmon, any 44 salmon, in the subsistence fishery. However, the State 45 has a commercial dipnet fishery where people can 46 commercial fish for chum and live release chum salmon 47 -- excuse me, king salmon. 48 49 MS. CARROLL: There was an incorrect 50

Page 298 1 statement. 2 3 MS. KENNER: I've just been corrected 4 and I would like that correction to be made. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Ms. Carroll. 7 8 MS. KENNER: Holly. 9 10 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. Pippa has 11 done a great job of explaining what's a super-complex 12 gear type in the fishery. I was hoping to clarify how 13 we use this gear when I give my agency report, but I 14 just want to answer your question. Currently there is 15 a list in State regulation of gear that subsistence 16 fishermen can use to catch king salmon. 17 18 Dipnets are not a legal gear. They may 19 only use gillnets and fishwheels and hook and line and 20 some other things, but dipnet is not allowed unless the 21 Department writes an emergency order saying we want to 22 let you go out and fish for chum salmon. You may use 23 dipnets, but you have to release kings. So it becomes 24 legal for subsistence fishing but only by emergency 25 order and only in times of conservation. 26 27 So by making it a legal gear type in 28 regulation that subsistence fishermen can use, it would 29 just be a different process for allowing that. They 30 would be allowed to use it all the time, not just when 31 we have an emergency order for it. So it makes it a 32 regular subsistence type of gear, but currently it is 33 not. 34 35 Currently there has to be an emergency 36 order, but we can use it to protect chum salmon as 37 well. Our management plan says that if we have a chum 38 crash and let's say the kings are doing great, we can 39 write an emergency order that says subsistence 40 fishermen may go catch their king salmon but they must 41 release chum salmon alive from the dipnet. 42 43 So it's very complicated. It's allowed 44 as a conservation tool right now, but in general the 45 furthering of this proposal and/or the State proposal 46 would allow fishermen to use a dipnet at any time that 47 they're going out fishing. 48 49 MR. ALOYSIUS: The other portion is, is 50

Page 299 1 this strictly for subsistence only or any time a person 2 wants to use a dipnet? 3 4 MS. KENNER: Hi, Bob. This is Pippa 5 Kenner. So do you mean this proposal? 6 7 MR. ALOYSIUS: The one we're talking 8 about right now. 9 10 MS. KENNER: The proposal? 11 12 MR. ALOYSIUS: Yeah. 13 14 MS. CARROLL: I think he's asking if 15 the gear is allowed for commercial as well. 16 17 MS. KENNER: In Federal regulations 18 what this proposal would do you could use a dipnet any 19 time to harvest salmon. 20 21 MR. ALOYSIUS: That's what I was 22 asking. Thank you. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Oney. 25 26 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 27 Reading on that first paragraph, adoption of this 28 proposal as submitted will allow for more subsistence 29 fishing opportunity. How does that give us more 30 fishing opportunity using a dipnet? 31 32 MS. KENNER: What page are you on? 33 34 MR. ONEY: Page 310. Effects of the 35 proposal. 36 37 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Mr. Oney. 38 Madame Chair. So more opportunity in terms of gear 39 use. So now there's more opportunity because you can 40 use another gear type to harvest salmon. That's all 41 that that means. 42 43 MR. ONEY: All right. Because in my 44 opinion I think for subsistence we want to get as much 45 right away and to put them away as quick as possible. 46 To my understanding, if you use a dipnet you only catch 47 a few at a time. Probably not more than three is my 48 guess that you'd get in a dipnet, but that's only if 49 you're in the hotspot. To use a dipnet for subsistence 50

Page 300 1 will give you more time to allow you to do more 2 subsistence activity because you're getting a few at a 3 time. That's my understanding of how this is written. 4 Maybe you could explain more. 5 6 Thank you. 7 8 MS. KENNER: Thank you for the 9 question, Mr. Oney. Through the Chair. What you're 10 saying is because a dipnet is so inefficient if you 11 were required to use a dipnet and only a dipnet, that's 12 not providing more opportunity. Do I understand you 13 correctly? Yes. 14 15 There's another side to that and that 16 is that if you're having to release chinook salmon 17 while you're fishing for salmon, a dipnet can be a 18 help. It can be another tool that people can use in 19 order to harvest chum salmon while conserving chinook 20 salmon. 21 22 I'm going to refer you to concerns of 23 this Council concerning the Kuskokwim that the Council 24 has said both things, that they do not support a dipnet 25 only subsistence opportunity. They do not want the 26 legalization of dipnets in the subsistence fishery to 27 be used to restrict at times when it should be open to 28 gillnets. The managers have honored that. The only 29 time a gillnet is legal is when the chinook salmon 30 fishery is otherwise closed. To effect that closure 31 they have not allowed the use of gillnets. 32 33 I can make an assumption how the Yukon 34 River would be managed with this gear type in that it 35 would not be managed like the commercial fishery is 36 managed where sometimes you can only harvest for the 37 commercial fishery with a dipnet. But I think when the 38 manager gives his report that might be a good question 39 to ask him how that would work. 40 41 Thank you again for the question. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So, Pippa, maybe 44 you could answer this for me. My understanding of this 45 proposal is that -- I'll use my grandma in my home as 46 an example. So as my family is going out getting their 47 subsistence needs, my grandpa would be out subsistence 48 fishing with Ryan, and then me and my Aunt Gwen we 49 usually dipnet right below our old house. That 50

Page 301 1 currently is illegal, correct? 2 3 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair, 4 for that question. Are you talking about in the Yukon 5 River Drainage? 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 8 9 MS. KENNER: That's correct. Unless 10 the State has an emergency order. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So I wouldn't be 13 able to go with my aunt and go dipnetting right below 14 my grandparents' house or by our fish camp on Munson 15 Island -- Manning Island. With this proposal it allows 16 my aunt, me, the kids to go dipnetting below our house 17 legally, that they're not breaking the rules. And 18 whatever they catch we can put up or whatever they 19 catch we can eat for fresh fish, correct? 20 21 MS. KENNER: Yes, but we must -- I want 22 to clarify that this is allowing a gear type. It 23 doesn't supercede openings, closures, any kind of 24 timing regulations, any emergency orders from ADF&G 25 that aren't superceded by the Federal manager. It's a 26 gear type, but the use of that gear type would always 27 be legal to harvest salmon. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So this is just 30 allowing -- it's another way of allowing subsistence 31 people to subsistence salmon, right? 32 33 MS. KENNER: That's correct, Madame 34 Chair. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 37 Mr. Aloysius. 38 39 MR. ALOYSIUS: Does that mean this is 40 another tool you could use for subsistence fishing? 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 43 44 MR. ALOYSIUS: Okay. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa 47 for the analysis. I'll look for Mr. Parent. Does 48 Marshall have any comment on this proposal. Oh, sorry, 49 Eva. 50

Page 302 1 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 2 Just in terms of process. Sorry, Marvin, we'll be 3 getting there. 4 5 MR. PARENT: Agency first, right? 6 7 MS. PATTON: I just wanted to note..... 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, it's not 10 tribes? 11 12 MS. PATTON: Yeah, this is the 13 consultation that occurred with the Federal Subsistence 14 Board in advance of the Council's meeting and we did 15 have participation in that meeting, but no formal 16 recommendation. And then we do have agencies on the 17 list first, our State and Federal agencies..... 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Ms. Holly 20 Carroll. 21 22 MS. PATTON: .....and then tribal 23 representatives. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. Holly 28 Carroll, Fish and Game, Yukon summer season manager. I 29 want to start by saying that the Department is neutral 30 on this proposal, but we do support giving fishermen 31 one more tool in their tool box, okay. This proposal 32 in essence is allowing one more gear type that 33 fishermen can go and use for harvesting salmon. 34 35 I want to clarify about the way this 36 gear is used on the Yukon because it's very different 37 to what's being proposed on the Kuskokwim, but I do 38 think that what you guys achieve today or the direction 39 you want to go because this is also a proposal at the 40 Board I think you're setting a tone. So I want you to 41 understand how we currently use the gear if that would 42 be helpful. 43 44 It's kind of confusing now how we use 45 it because there's a long list of gears that are legal 46 for subsistence fishermen and dipnets are not one of 47 them. The dipnet was actually introduced by commercial 48 fishermen as a tool that would allow them to go out 49 while the kings are running, the summer chum run at the 50

Page 303 1 same time, and those fishermen said, hey, what if we go 2 out with dipnets and we let every king go, could we 3 still go commercial fishing. That way they don't have 4 to stay onshore. But if they put gillnets in the 5 water, they'd be killing kings. 6 7 So it has been a tool that we can use 8 for commercial fishermen, but similarly we've had runs 9 that were so small for king salmon that we say, okay, 10 subsistence fishermen, we can't afford to harvest any 11 kings yet. You may use dipnet gear and you may go 12 harvest summer chum salmon, but please release every 13 king alive. So it is a conservation tool. 14 15 That's been effective, but what's 16 confusing about it is when that conservation mode has 17 passed and we say, okay, now the subsistence harvest 18 surplus available, subsistence fishermen go back to 19 using your efficient gear, your gillnets, but you may 20 not use dipnets anymore and it's confusing currently. 21 22 If this was passed and dipnets were 23 allowed, it might be less confusing. Then everyone 24 would know they can use dipnets. If we have a 25 conservation concern, we may close all fishing for king 26 salmon. We may say no gillnets are allowed and we may 27 still allow dipnets to be used. Because you can safely 28 release king salmon we could still say we want all king 29 salmon released from that gear. 30 31 But giving you that tool to use it when 32 we're also open for gillnets, I'll tell you about the 33 kind of people who need this gear. Some people say 34 that it's too hard to operate a gillnet or they don't 35 have the money for a gillnet or they have a type of 36 fishing area where they can just go to one hole and dip 37 for summer chums, for instance. Summer chums, the 38 quality can be kind of terrible. It can be hit or 39 miss. Sometimes it's quality for humans and sometimes 40 it's not. 41 42 The beauty of using dipnet gear for 43 king salmon or chum salmon is they can just get the 44 fish they want and they can release the ones they don't 45 want. When we have people go out with gillnet gear, 46 lately we've been doing a lot of 6-inch gear as a 47 conservation tool, if there's a lot of chums present 48 and they just want a few kings, their nets will fill 49 with summer chum that they don't want and they don't 50

Page 304 1 want to waste them. So if they could go out with a 2 dipnet and keep just a few kings, that's an option for 3 them. 4 5 So it gives them one more tool in the 6 toolbox. That's why we're neutral on the proposal and 7 there might be some confusing aspects to work out with 8 the current language because it affects a lot of 9 regulatory language on the State side, but that can 10 happen at the Board of Fish. In practice right now, 11 this would just give one more tool in the toolbox. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ms. 14 Carroll. Comments, questions. 15 16 (No comments) 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Go 19 ahead. 20 21 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann with 22 U.S. Fish and Wildlife. We're also neutral for the 23 same reasons as Holly stated. This would be a new gear 24 type for subsistence fishermen..... 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I have a 27 correction. This gear type has been used longer than 28 I've been alive. 29 30 MR. MASCHMANN: .....for salmon 31 currently in regulation. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. It's not 34 only salmon but there's also for non-species. Just 35 talking about dipnetting I see my grandmother there 36 dipnetting for whitefish. So this has been around 37 longer than I've been alive. 38 39 MR. MASCHMANN: Correct, the gear has 40 been around longer than your life. Currently as it is 41 in regulation it's legal gear for non-salmon. If you 42 would like to use dipnets for salmon as Holly stated, 43 it would open up fishing opportunities for folks who 44 maybe can't afford nets. Nets are very expensive and a 45 dipnet is a lot cheaper. So I do think that, as you 46 think about it, fishing practices will probably change 47 based upon this new gear type. It will provide more 48 opportunity for subsistence fishermen. 49 50

Page 305 1 So we're neutral. How this new gear or 2 as more and more people -- not new gear. As this gear 3 becomes used more for salmon, how that plays out with 4 traditions in the culture and fishing practices, that 5 will remain to be seen. 6 7 So that's something to consider. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Good 10 job. Do you have any comments for him. 11 12 (No comments) 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you very 15 much. All right. I'm going to Native, tribal, village 16 or other. Now Mr. Parent. 17 18 MR. PARENT: Madame Chair, members of 19 the Council. Thank you very much for this opportunity 20 to speak on behalf of the Marshall Traditional Council. 21 Marvin Parent here. 22 23 Once again the Marshall Traditional 24 Council welcomes any type of deregulation for 25 subsistence fishing. This is an additional 26 deregulation, the Marshall Traditional Council would 27 like you to vote yes for this proposal, please. As 28 additional freedoms of choice and less regulations is 29 paramount to formulating conservation of selected 30 species, whether it be chum salmon or chinook. 31 32 Likewise, the Marshall Traditional 33 Council agrees with the State of Alaska's position that 34 dipnetting can be very economical and also less time 35 consuming for those of us that work, that cannot mend X 36 amount of fathom long net, gillnet, driftnet, et 37 cetera, so this would save time and money. A dipnet in 38 my village costs $136. Compare that to the drift 39 gillnets that they use that have to be shipped in 40 and/or purchased locally and then be put together. 41 42 I appreciate Madame Chair's insistence 43 that dipnetting is a traditional and cultural form of 44 subsistence fishing amongst our people in the Lower 45 Yukon, the Kuskokwim and elsewhere. 46 47 Once again the Marshall Traditional 48 Council urges you to vote yes on this proposal. 49 50

Page 306 1 Thank you. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 4 Parent. Do we have anymore Native, tribal, village or 5 other? 6 7 (No comments) 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Is there anyone 10 on teleconference? 11 12 (No comments) 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 15 Interagency staff. Eva. 16 17 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 18 We don't have ISC comments. Again, the other Regional 19 Advisory Councils have not met nor have the ACs, so we 20 don't have comments at this time and no written public 21 comments either. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 26 Public testimony. Do we have anyone in the audience 27 who would like to comment? 28 29 Mr. Phillip. 30 31 MR. PETERSON: We all know that the 32 gear type we use it will not change in our area. It's 33 already in place, 4-inch..... 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: He's talking 36 about Yukon. 37 38 MR. PETERSON: .....in Yukon. It's 39 different from our river. I know I talk with some 40 Yukon people and ask them how you guys doing 41 dipnetting. They said it's hard work and tough, I 42 guess. Tough. They catch chums and sometimes 43 chinooks. When they catch chinooks they release them 44 and they keep the chums. I think the Board should say 45 yes to this gear type for subsistence and as to 46 commercial. 47 48 Thank you. 49 50

Page 307 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 2 Phillip. Is there any more public comments? 3 4 (No comments) 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 7 more public comments online? 8 9 (No comments) 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 12 I'd like to entertain that we go into Regional Council 13 recommendations. 14 15 MR. ANDREW: I move that we adopt FP19- 16 07. 17 18 MR. CHARLES: I second the motion. 19 20 MR. ALOYSIUS: Madame Chair. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 23 Aloysius. 24 25 MR. ALOYSIUS: John, are you in favor 26 of FP19-07 with modifications halfway down the page of 27 that 294? Are you suggesting support for Proposal 28 FP19-07 with modifications to allow the Federal 29 in-season manager to additionally require the live 30 release of chinook, chum, or coho salmon during times 31 of low salmon abundance rather than only chinook 32 salmon? 33 34 The reason I'm asking that is because 35 it's halfway down the page it says OSM preliminary 36 conclusion supports that with modifications. 37 38 MR. ANDREW: (In Yup'ik) 39 40 INTERPRETER: This does not need a 41 modification because if you look at the regulations of 42 the Kuskokwim River they are different from the 43 Kuskokwim River. This is only the subsistence type for 44 gear that they can use as an option if they do not want 45 to use the gillnets on the Yukon River. This just puts 46 another tool into the Yukon subsistence fishing to use 47 the gillnets as an option to catch for the subsistence 48 needs. 49 50

Page 308 1 Quyana. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Pippa. 4 5 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 6 I just came forward once again just to talk about what 7 the proposal is. Mr. Andrew was correct and also Mr. 8 Aloysius asked about do we want to consider the OSM 9 modification and I just wanted to point out that the 10 OSM modification is to add the language salmon may be 11 harvested by dipnet at any time except during times of 12 conservation the Federal in-season manager may announce 13 restrictions on time, area and species. 14 15 That modification isn't really 16 necessary. He already has that ability, but it was 17 suggested that we put that into regulation or that 18 people be aware that it's clear that this is just 19 making a gear type legal, but the use of any gear for 20 the harvest of salmon will still be regulated by time 21 and area. 22 23 So my message there is, yes, there is 24 an OSM modification. We did suggest you adopt the 25 modification, but whether or not you address that 26 modification the manager will still have the ability to 27 regulate the fishery. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So in the bold 30 section where it says the proposed regulation, Pippa, 31 it says salmon may be harvested by dipnet at any time 32 except in times of conservation chinook salmon are 33 required to be released alive. That's proposed by 34 itself. So where are you guys -- what is the fine line 35 definition of what you're asking to change of that? 36 37 MS. KENNER: So I think that the 38 purpose of the modification was to acknowledge that 39 sometimes it's chum salmon that we're trying to 40 protect. So they're pointing out that the Federal 41 in-season manager has the ability to restrict the use 42 of dipnet or any gear in order to conserve salmon, 43 whether it be chum or chinook. The adoption of the 44 reg..... 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: You're adding 47 those fish into -- next to the chinook salmon. Got it. 48 49 Go ahead, Mr. Aloysius. 50

Page 309 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: Could you repeat what 2 you said. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So right now the 5 current proposal as written is salmon may be harvested 6 by dipnet at any time except in times of conservation 7 chinook are required to be released alive. So all 8 OSM's modification is doing is just adding chum or coho 9 to chinook. 10 11 MR. ALOYSIUS: Where do you find that? 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Page 294. 14 15 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council, 16 if I may. So it's just acknowledging that if there's a 17 conservation concern for other species of salmon in 18 addition to chinook that those species could be 19 released live from that net. 20 21 MR. ALOYSIUS: Whenever someone is 22 talking please be quiet because I'm listening to her 23 and I get tapped and I lose what you were saying. 24 25 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 26 So that regulation and the proposed modification is on 27 Page 294. Currently the regulation that is being 28 proposed is to allow dipnet as a subsistence tool with 29 live release of chinook salmon in times of 30 conservation. 31 32 MR. ALOYSIUS: Where do you see that? 33 34 MS. PATTON: That's the main regulation 35 and the proposed regulation. 36 37 MR. ALOYSIUS: It's my understanding 38 that anything you start blacking in addition to what 39 the regulation is..... 40 41 REPORTER: Bob. 42 43 MR. ALOYSIUS: It's my understanding 44 that whenever you see something in bold/black that's 45 what the change is or the modification. 46 47 MS. PATTON: Yes, you're correct. 48 49 MS. KENNER: That's right, Bob. This 50

Page 310 1 is Pippa Kenner. So if you're on Page 294 and on the 2 left it says proposed regulation. 3 4 MR. ALOYSIUS: I realize that, but are 5 you supporting this proposal with that modification? 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Currently on the 8 floor it's only to support just the first part of the 9 -- without the modification. Someone needs to make a 10 motion that we support with the modification, but no 11 one has made that motion yet. 12 13 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 14 The modification was to suggest the other species of 15 salmon. So the current proposed regulation is salmon 16 may be harvested by dipnet at any time except in times 17 of conservation chinook salmon are required to be 18 released alive. 19 20 The modification, if the Council wishes 21 to take this up or not, would be to allow Federal in- 22 season manager additionally to require live release of 23 chinook, chum or coho salmon during times of low salmon 24 abundance rather than only chinook salmon. So it's 25 adding chum and coho in case there was a decline to 26 those species. Then they could be released live as 27 well. 28 29 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Pippa, go ahead. 32 33 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair, 34 for acknowledging me. So I think maybe where we're 35 going is this. For the purposes of our program it's 36 not uncommon for a Council to say I move that we adopt 37 the OSM conclusion so you don't go through the whole 38 amendments. 39 40 So I think what the clarification is 41 are you sure that your proposal -- that's what your 42 motion is or do you actually mean the OSM modification. 43 What I was clarifying is that whether or not you adopt 44 the OSM modification the in-season manager has that 45 ability to limit when gear types are used -- to limit 46 when commercial fish are being harvested. 47 48 In the modification it clarifies to you 49 what it means. It means that if anything is a 50

Page 311 1 conservation concern, the Federal manager will be 2 managing the harvest of that fish and he may be 3 managing by limiting your use of dipnets and other 4 gear. So it's just a clarification. Someone can say I 5 move to adopt the proposal as modified by OSM. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 8 Go ahead. 9 10 MR. RISDAHL: Thank you, Madame Chair. 11 Members of the Council. Greg Risdahl, OSM Fish Division 12 lead. Just another point. It sounds like the Council 13 is having a little difficulty in knowing what's being 14 presented, what the motion is being made on. 15 16 So you guys can also make your own 17 amendments. So, for instance, this is a simple 18 example, the proposed regulation says you may take 19 salmon only by gillnet, beach seine, fishwheel, rod and 20 reel, blah, blah, blah. The thing they changed is they 21 added salmon may be harvested by dipnet, right. 22 They've also added except in times of conservation 23 chinook salmon are required to be released. 24 25 You could actually change that 26 yourselves and just simply add dipnet as a gear type. 27 You don't need to add any of that other stuff. You can 28 make the motion to change it, simplify it. You could 29 say salmon may be harvested by dipnet at any time. You 30 could do that too. So you can do whatever you want to 31 do. You don't have to follow anybody else's lead. 32 Does that make sense? 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you so much 37 for that. That clears a lot of this other stuff up. 38 So just to review. FP19-07 we had a motion on the floor 39 to accept the proposal. Would I be able to make that 40 suggestion? Would someone on the floor want to make an 41 amendment to delete the second portion from except in 42 times of conservation chinook salmon are required to be 43 released. To delete that altogether so that we're just 44 simply putting in salmon may be harvested by dipnet at 45 any time. That's all. 46 47 MR. ALOYSIUS: (Away from microphone). 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, that's the 50

Page 312 1 amendment. That way we at least have it in regulation. 2 3 MR. ALOYSIUS: We can't put in an 4 amendment to the motion until it's -- ugh. You're 5 trying to kill two birds with one stone. 6 7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: You're correct 8 right now. 9 10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I'm correct right 11 now I was told. 12 13 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: You can make an 14 amendment. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I can make an 17 amendment to the motion..... 18 19 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Not you. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Not me, but I can 22 suggest it for an amendment to be made to this current 23 motion. Right? 24 25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: For them to make. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: She said yes. 28 Please come up. 29 30 MS. KENNER: This is Pippa and I was 31 going to say yes and yes and yes, but I think we have 32 somebody here who has a better answer. 33 34 MS. PETRIVELLI: Okay. My name is Pat 35 Petrivelli. So far right now there's a motion on the 36 floor to support the proposal as submitted. Now if 37 someone wants to, they could make an amendment to that 38 motion. They would have to clearly state how they 39 would amend the motion and then you would vote whether 40 you want to change the motion and if you agree to 41 change the motion, then the motion would be changed and 42 you would vote again whether to support the motion as 43 amended, as changed. So it takes two steps. 44 45 Or you could just vote it down and make 46 a new motion, but right now you have a motion to 47 support the proposal as submitted, which you could just 48 act upon to accept it as submitted or you can amend 49 this motion. 50

Page 313 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius, 2 what would you like to do? 3 4 MR. ALOYSIUS: I totally lost what the 5 original motion was now. Eva, could you..... 6 7 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 8 Bob had made a motion to support Proposal FP19-07 which 9 requests the Federal Subsistence Board revise Federal 10 subsistence management regulations by adding dipnets to 11 the gear types allowed for the subsistence harvest of 12 salmon on the Yukon River. 13 14 The regulation would read you may take 15 salmon only by gillnet, beach seine, fish wheel, or rod 16 and reel, subject to the restrictions in this section. 17 Salmon may be harvested by dipnet at any time, except 18 in times of conservation, chinook salmon are required 19 to be released alive. 20 21 That is the motion Bob made and the 22 proposal as written. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 25 26 MR. ALOYSIUS: What about the OSM -- I 27 thought that was included in the original motion when I 28 said with modifications. 29 30 MS. PATTON: If you would like to 31 support with modification, then the Council can make 32 that motion with modification and the OSM modification, 33 if that's what you're wanting..... 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: He was asking if 36 we already had that, if we already had supported. No, 37 we haven't. The answer, Robert, is no. Right now on 38 the floor it's -- the motion is to support the original 39 proposal. 40 41 MR. ALOYSIUS: Okay. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: There's nothing 44 else to add. That's all I have right now. 45 46 MR. ALOYSIUS: Okay. That being the 47 case I rescind my support (indiscernible)..... 48 49 REPORTER: Bob, Bob. 50

Page 314 1 MR. RISDAHL: We can't hear you, Bob. 2 3 MR. ALOYSIUS: I rescind the motion, 4 period, and start over again from scratch. 5 6 (Mr. Andrew made the motion and Mr. 7 Charles seconded it) 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Who seconded? 10 11 MS. PETRIVELLI: James. 12 13 MR. CHARLES: I accept the modification 14 or the proposal. 15 16 MR. ALOYSIUS: No. I rescind the 17 motion. I'll restate when he's done. 18 19 MR. CHARLES: Yeah, I accept that. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 22 23 Pippa. 24 25 MS. KENNER: You got it. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, okay. 28 29 MS. KENNER: Well, actually -- this is 30 Pippa. Following what Greg said to make this a cleaner 31 process you might say I move to put dipnet as a legal 32 gear in the Yukon River Drainage, period. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Go 35 ahead, Mr. Aloysius. 36 37 MR. ALOYSIUS: Thank you. I move that 38 we support this proposal FP19-07 with modification and 39 we already know what the modifications are. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So the 42 modification would be salmon may be harvested by dipnet 43 at any time, period. 44 45 MR. ALOYSIUS: No, not to..... 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Just to add 48 dipnet to the regulation. That's what we were talking 49 about, Bob. 50

Page 315 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: The modification to 2 allow Federal in-season manager..... 3 4 REPORTER: Bob, I need you to put the 5 mic on. 6 7 MR. ALOYSIUS: .....to 8 additionally..... 9 10 MR. RISDAHL: Bob. 11 12 MR. ALOYSIUS: Ughhh. 13 14 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. The motion 15 was different from what you said. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. 18 19 MR. ALOYSIUS: With modification -- 20 including with modification to allow the Federal 21 in-season manager to additionally require the live 22 release of chinook, chum, or coho salmon during times 23 of low salmon abundance rather than only chinook 24 salmon. That's what I mean when I said adopt this 25 proposal with this modification. 26 27 MR. CHARLES: I second the motion with 28 modification. Thank you. 29 30 MR. ANDREW: I thought I already made 31 the motion first. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 34 discussion. 35 36 (No comments) 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Question on the 39 motion has been called. Mr. Oney, would you like to do 40 a roll call vote. I want to make sure you guys all 41 understand what we're understanding. 42 43 MR. ONEY: James Charles. 44 45 MR. CHARLES: Yes. 46 47 MR. ONEY: David Bill, Sr. 48 49 MR. BILL: Yes. 50

Page 316 1 MR. ONEY: John Andrew. 2 3 MR. ANDREW: Yes. 4 5 MR. ONEY: Robert Aloysius. 6 7 MR. ALOYSIUS: Yes. 8 9 MR. ONEY: Alissa Rogers. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No. 12 13 MR. ONEY: Raymond Oney, no. Four yes, 14 two no. Motion carries. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Justification. 17 Did you want a justification? 18 19 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 20 I think we heard a lot of discussion in the motion that 21 carries in terms of the interest of subsistence 22 opportunity. If a Council member would like to 23 reiterate that in your vote or summarize, that would be 24 fine as well. 25 26 Thank you. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Let's 29 go ahead and move on. We'll get into our crossover 30 fishery proposals FP19-01, Yukon salmon, expansion of 31 the area and fishing time Subdistricts 4B and 4C and 32 repeal max mesh depth restriction of 35 meshes deep for 33 drift gillnets in Subdistricts 4A and 4B in the 34 fishery. 35 36 Thank you, Ms. Pippa. 37 38 Take it away. 39 40 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 41 I'm going to introduce you to George Pappas, who is the 42 Federal/State Liaison at the Office of Subsistence 43 Management. He's online with us and he'll be talking. 44 45 The analysis for Proposal FP19-01 46 begins on Page 315. George, are you there? 47 48 MR. PAPPAS: Yes, I am. Good morning, 49 Pippa. Madame Chair. I'll be ready to go when you're 50

Page 317 1 ready to go. 2 3 Madame Chair, may I commence? 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, please, Mr. 6 Pappas. 7 8 MR. PAPPAS: Good noonish. Proposal 9 FP19-01 was submitted by Jack Reakoff of Wiseman. A 10 lot of you know Jack Reakoff is the Chair of the 11 Western Interior Council, but the timing on this the 12 Council did not meet at a time in which they could get 13 the proposal submitted as a Council. So Jack, the 14 Chair, took it upon himself as an individual to submit 15 it privately. 16 17 So this requests an expansion of the 18 area and fishing time for the Federal subsistence drift 19 gillnet fishery in Subdistricts 4B and 4C for the 20 waters under Federal Management. The proponent also 21 requests repealing the maximum mesh depth restriction 22 of 35 meshes deep for drift gillnets in Subdistricts 4B 23 and 4C of the Yukon River. 24 25 Switching to Page 318, talking about 26 the discussion section. The proponent states that 27 adoption of this proposal would align Federal 28 subsistence fisheries methods, means, seasons, and area 29 regulations with recent State regulatory changes for 30 the drift gillnet fisheries in Subdistricts 4B and 4C 31 of the Yukon River drainage, and adoption of the 32 proposal would also mirror the State's absence of a 33 drift gillnet mesh depth limit. 34 35 Last spring, March 2018, the Alaska 36 Board of Fisheries adopted a modified proposal, their 37 number was 230, and allowed the use of drift gillnets 38 of 150 feet in length in Districts 4B and C. Prior to 39 this in that area only setting gillnets and fishwheels 40 were authorized. But they did authorize it last year 41 and this proposal was submitted to parallel this. 42 43 The effects of this proposal, Page 334 44 of your book. If the proposal were adopted, additional 45 harvest opportunities would be provided to Federally 46 qualified subsistence users by removing the depth 47 restrictions on drift gillnets in Subdistricts 4B and 48 4C of the Yukon River. So use a deeper net and you'll 49 catch probably the same number of fish but much faster 50

Page 318 1 and be more efficient. 2 3 Also if the proposal was adopted 4 Federal subsistence drift gillnet fall chum fishing 5 season within Subdistricts 4B and 4C of the Yukon River 6 beginning August 2 and would provide that opportunity 7 to Federally qualified users. Currently, after August 8 2nd, that's not available with drift gillnets. It 9 would be available only under State regulations for the 10 fall chum salmon fishery. 11 12 If this proposal is adopted, Federally 13 qualified subsistence users could use drift gillnets 14 under Federal regulations and it would be independent 15 of the State regulations during the timeframe that this 16 proposal encompasses. 17 18 Aligning the Federal subsistence drift 19 gillnet allowance with State regulations will likely 20 result in less confusion by fishers and less 21 administrative actions by the Federal in-season 22 manager. Adoption of this proposal will align State 23 and Federal subsistence fishing regulations, which will 24 reduce enforcement concerns and user confusion. 25 26 The Federal in-season manager, under 27 the management authority delegated to him by the 28 Federal Subsistence Board, will still have the 29 authority to make in-season adjustments in fishing time 30 and gear types in response to the salmon run strength. 31 So this does not prohibit the in-season manager to 32 restrict -- if it's a conservation issue or if there's 33 issues. 34 35 I'm going to go to the conclusion from 36 OSM. That's Page 335. This proposal was submitted to 37 mirror a recently adopted fisheries regulation on the 38 State side. Currently the Federal subsistence drift 39 gillnet fishery is more restrictive than the 40 State fishery in the same spot. 41 42 If you remember back in 2005, 2006, 43 when the Federal subsistence drift gillnet proposal 44 came from the Western Interior RAC, initially both the 45 Eastern Interior and Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta Councils 46 opposed it. They wanted more conservation to be simply 47 summarized. And they came back -- the Western Interior 48 came back with a different proposal with the shorter 49 nets and a more restricted area and also required 50

Page 319 1 permits to track it to see how big the fishery would 2 get. 3 4 After the first few years only a 5 handful of people fished with those permits and that 6 gear type. A lot of folks didn't do so well because it 7 was a new fishery and folks got their nets torn up a 8 little bit. Also the folks like in Galena and Ruby 9 they had to travel up to 100 miles. Public testimony 10 indicated a lot of money it was costing the folks to 11 hop in their skiffs and run down to where it was open 12 for drift gillnet and then run back upriver with those 13 fish. 14 15 Part of the idea of the support for 16 this proposal is folks would be able to go out and fish 17 more efficiently with deeper nets, closer to home and 18 catch the same fish that would be passing their home 19 say four or five days later. 20 21 Additionally, adoption of this proposal 22 will also create a fall chum salmon drift gillnet 23 fishery for the Federal subsistence users starting 24 August 2 if a harvestable surplus is available. Of 25 course this is always abundance-based management. 26 27 Adoption of this proposal is not 28 expected to increase subsistence harvests as the 29 fisheries in the affected subdistricts as participation 30 and salmon harvest in this area has been consistently 31 low. You look at the harvest information -- and I can 32 go back and review that in the analysis if you want to, 33 but one year Federally qualified users got 19 fish, 20 34 fish, and the next year they got another 20 fish. 35 You're talking very low numbers. 36 37 Although an increase in harvest is not 38 expected, adoption of this proposal may affect 39 management of other Federally qualified users 40 harvesting salmon outside of Subdistricts 4B and 4C. 41 So, to be straightforward, if more fish are caught in 42 this area, it might impact other areas where Federally 43 qualified subsistence fishers do participate dependent 44 on the harvest levels and dependent on abundance of the 45 run. 46 47 That will conclude my presentation and 48 I know that we have both in-season managers there to 49 answer technical questions. 50

Page 320 1 I do appreciate your time. 2 3 I'll be on stand-by. 4 5 Thank you, Madame Chair. 6 7 MS. KENNER: Hey, George, this is 8 Pippa. Could you tell the Council what the OSM 9 preliminary conclusion is. 10 11 Thank you. 12 13 MR. PAPPAS: I didn't flip the page 14 over. I apologize. That's fairly embarrassing. The 15 OSM preliminary conclusion is to support FP19-01. This 16 proposal was submitted to mirror recently adopted 17 fisheries that was liberalized by the State. Currently 18 the drift gillnet fishery under Federal regulations in 19 4B and 4C are more restrictive than the State managed 20 fisheries. 21 22 Adoption of this proposal will allow 23 Federally qualified users to use deeper drift gillnets 24 in the identified area without mesh depth restrictions. 25 It will be more efficient for some users. They won't 26 have to travel as far to get to areas that you're 27 allowed to use drift gillnets near those subdistricts 28 in the Yukon. 29 30 Also adoption of this proposal will 31 also create a fall chum salmon drift gillnet 32 subsistence fishery beginning August 2nd to allow folks 33 to target fall chum salmon if a harvestable surplus is 34 available and if the interested folks do want to go 35 target them there with drift gillnets. 36 37 If this proposal is adopted, it's not 38 expected to increase subsistence harvest in the fishery 39 of the subdistricts as participation again and the 40 number of salmon harvested in this area are 41 consistently low. 42 43 That is the conclusion for OSM and that 44 can be found on Page 335. 45 46 Thank you, Madame Chair. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Mr. 49 Pappas, have you gotten any feedback from the villages 50

Page 321 1 that are being affected by this proposal? 2 3 MR. PAPPAS: Madame Chair. George 4 Pappas. I have not. The Western Interior RAC -- and I 5 brought this up to him because I was preparing comments 6 for the Board of Fisheries, the folks were all in 7 support of the idea to the point where even the Western 8 Interior Council requested a special action in August 9 to mirror the State's regulations because it was out- 10 of-cycle proposal-wise with our Federal process. 11 12 So I can't say that I received specific 13 discussions from individual people that are 14 representing the villages out there of the affected 15 areas, but folks from those areas are on the Council, 16 so the advice to go forward with it was not official 17 because the timing, but in my professional opinion I 18 did not see opposition to it from the Western Interior 19 Council members participating and testifying. 20 21 Is that clear, Madame Chair? 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 24 Pappas. Ms. Carroll, did you have a question? No. 25 26 MS. CARROLL: Just a report. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, okay. Thank 29 you. Did you have a question for Mr. Pappas, Mr. 30 Parent? 31 32 MR. PARENT: Not for Mr. Pappas, but in 33 regards to..... 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Well, I mean like 36 did you have a question for Mr. Pappas. 37 38 MR. PARENT: I have no questions, but I 39 do need to bring up a discrepancy in either the agenda 40 or the written draft staff analysis. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. We'll 43 take it up in just a minute. Thanks. I want to make 44 sure we have everyone on board. 45 46 (No comments) 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 49 Pappas. There doesn't seem to be any more questions. 50

Page 322 1 MR. PAPPAS: Standing by. 2 3 Thank you. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. A report on 6 Board consultations. 7 8 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 9 Again there were no specific recommendations on the 10 Board consultation. 11 12 Thank you. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Ms. 15 Holly Carroll. Thank you for waiting patiently. 16 17 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. Holly 18 Carroll, Department of Fish and Game. I'm the Yukon 19 area summer season manager. George and Pippa both gave 20 a really thorough background on this, but what I want 21 to just make plainly clear is that the Department 22 supports this. I'm going to use Madame Chair's own 23 words. This is technically a housekeeping procedure. 24 25 The State made this opportunity 26 slightly more liberal for subsistence users and now 27 this proposal is trying to align the Federal regs to 28 make it match. That's all it is. So we support it. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did you get any 31 kickback when you guys had this for Fish and Game? 32 33 MS. CARROLL: No. This was presented 34 at the Board and there were actually a lot of key 35 tribal entities present, commercial fishermen present, 36 YDFDA, YRDFA. There was almost unanimous support for 37 increasing this opportunity in that area. The villages 38 affected in District 4 are Nulato, Koyukuk and then in 39 4B and 4C are Galena and Ruby and there was a lot of 40 support for allowing this drifting. 41 42 As George explained, the Federal 43 regulation required that subsistence fishermen have 44 shorter gillnets and the State does not require that, 45 so that's a cost burden to fishermen if that stays on 46 the books, that they have to have a shorter net for 47 when they're a Federally qualified user. So we would 48 like to see the State and Federal regulations align on 49 this one. 50

Page 323 1 Just to be clear, what's being proposed 2 is making it more liberal, more easy for fishermen to 3 go out and drift gillnet. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: So did you get 6 any kickback from the Lower Yukon River in regards to 7 conservation of chinook salmon since we are in 8 conservation mode? 9 10 MS. CARROLL: No, because it's actually 11 legal to drift in the Lower River. This was an 12 interesting thing where it is the Board that determines 13 legal gear types. Over many years it's been legal to 14 drift from the coast all the way up to part of District 15 4 and then above District 4 it's not legal to drift 16 gillnet. You may only set gillnet. 17 18 We've seen a change as people have been 19 able to voice environmental concerns about the loss of 20 setnet sites because of the way the rivers are thawing 21 and the ice is going. Bank erosion is causing a loss 22 of eddies. So when someone has to find a good eddy to 23 put a setnet and if there's only a few good eddies in 24 the community, they have no place to put a setnet. 25 26 So people are turning to what's a new 27 method for them, drift gillnetting. They're learning 28 how to do it. They're learning that if they find a 29 good location, they still have an opportunity to go get 30 their fish. So there's been more and more people 31 asking to have that ability to drift further and 32 further upriver. 33 34 There's a Board proposal now that would 35 allow drifting in all of the river that's going to be 36 at the Board of Fish. So it is changing times that 37 we're seeing in the subsistence fishery that people 38 want more tools in their toolbox. We want to be able 39 to set or drift depending on the conditions of the 40 river. 41 42 We didn't see a lot of opposition to 43 allowing drifting in this part of the subdistrict 44 because they were already drifting just below here. So 45 it's just sort of aligning it and getting it sort of 46 all the same across all the districts that are allowed 47 to do it. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ms. 50

Page 324 1 Carroll, but that doesn't answer my question about 2 repealing the maximum depth on the driftnets, the depth 3 of the driftnets. That's what my question was. Did 4 you get a lot of kickback of people about the depth of 5 those? Because we are in times of conservation and 6 removing the depth..... 7 8 MS. CARROLL: So the answer is no and 9 the reason is because all of those other districts do 10 not have the depth restriction. It was only these two 11 drift zones in Federal waters that had that depth 12 restriction. So the majority of users aren't forced to 13 have it. So the other users didn't have complaints 14 about letting them have the same thing that they have, 15 which is no depth restriction. That conservation 16 aspect that the Federal put in we don't have that 17 elsewhere. So other users that I was aware of thought 18 it more important to just align them. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you have a 21 history of why they had put in a restriction for depth? 22 Does anybody..... 23 24 MR. PAPPAS: Madame Chair. George 25 Pappas. I have that. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 28 Pappas. 29 30 MR. PAPPAS: Yes, initially during the 31 first -- I believe it was 2005, you'll notice in the 32 history section of the analysis, the proposal is 33 rejected and the Western Interior Council came back 34 with a more conservative approach with a maximum depth, 35 shallow nets, requiring permits so they can get a grip 36 on how many people are going to do it and there was a 37 lot of concern from both the State and Federal sides 38 about possibly a new fishery it was called back then. 39 40 It was a voluntary restriction placed 41 on themselves that was brought forth, put into place, 42 including a 7-inch max in 2006 for the size of the 43 mesh. The idea was to see -- give the Federal 44 subsistence users an opportunity to see if this was a 45 gear type that would work in the area by addressing 46 some of the concerns that folks had in different parts 47 of the river and also both State and Federal side. 48 49 So it was a voluntary -- if I remember 50

Page 325 1 correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong there, Gerald, 2 you were a part of this process -- process to try to 3 search into this fishery, see how it was going to work. 4 It turns out after a couple years you've got people 5 participating, the Department indicated very low 6 harvest, the interest was low. So that still stayed on 7 the books from day one. 8 9 What is it, 13 years later that there's 10 a mesh restriction on it. The Western Interior RAC 11 members in discussion. Also they did send a letter of 12 support to the Board of Fish on this proposal -- excuse 13 me, on the proposal last March. It indicated that it's 14 no longer necessary to have that depth restriction if 15 the State doesn't have that. 16 17 That's what I have for my brief 18 history. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did you have 21 anything more to add, Mr. Gerald? 22 23 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann, Fish 24 and Wildlife Service. No, George Pappas gave a pretty 25 good history on that. Thanks. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any 28 further comments or questions for these guys. 29 30 (No comments) 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 33 34 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald with the Fish 35 and Wildlife Service. The Federal manager's 36 perspective is that we're supportive of this to align 37 basically the Federal regulations with the State 38 regulations. 39 40 We actually were kind of thinking why 41 not just repeal the Federal regulation all together 42 since we are adopting State regs instead of having 43 identical State and Federal regulations in two 44 different books when, in fact, we adopt State 45 subsistence regulations anyway. We were informed that 46 we just don't do that. 47 48 So I'm not sure if that's another 49 option, is just repeal the Federal regulation and then 50

Page 326 1 by default we adopt the already in place State 2 regulations. 3 4 That's my comment. 5 6 Thank you. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 9 10 MR. CHARLES: How long is the net 11 nowadays commercial fishermen have been using? 12 13 MR. MASCHMANN: Madame Chair. Are you 14 talking about commercial fishing in 4B and C? 15 16 MR. CHARLES: (Nods affirmatively). 17 18 MR. MASCHMANN: This particular 19 proposal is for subsistence fishermen who are drifting 20 and the maximum length is 150 feet, I believe. Yeah. 21 22 MS. CARROLL: Correct. Madame Chair, 23 if I may follow up. James, the only commercial fishing 24 that's occurring in this district is in 4A and it's a 25 fishwheel fishery. They're not using gillnets for 26 commercial fishing there. So this really just applies 27 to the subsistence fishermen to go out for their 28 subsistence salmon. 29 30 MR. CHARLES: Okay. Thank you. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anything else. 33 34 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald with Fish and 35 Wildlife. As far as conservation concerns, you know, 36 we're going to be regulating time and area and fishing 37 time as per our assessment of what we think the chinook 38 or summer chum or any of the salmon we think we can 39 handle. When we feel like we've got to conserve 40 chinook and we're restricting the river, this fishery 41 will be restricted as all the other fisheries that we 42 normally do. Just to be clear on that. We're not 43 allowing them to fish whenever they want when everyone 44 else is closed. 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 47 48 MR. ALOYSIUS: What do you mean by 49 restricting the river? You mean restricting the 50

Page 327 1 fishermen that use the river, right? 2 3 MR. MASCHMANN: Thank you, Bob. That's 4 correct. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Did you as Fish 7 and Wildlife Service, I know you're subsistence, but 8 did you have any comments coming back from subsistence 9 users of that area? 10 11 MR. MASCHMANN: Thank you. This is 12 Gerald with Fish and Wildlife. Yeah, we've talked 13 about subsistence fishermen in this area, particularly 14 folks in Galena have been traveling down to the upper 15 section of Subdistrict 4A to drift because they've not 16 been able to drift around Galena and it's causing 17 overcrowding conditions with folks who live in upper 18 4A. So this has been an issue in this area that 19 they've been wanting to drift for a while. 20 21 So the hope is that as folks in this 22 area learn how to drift they will begin to find drift 23 fishing spots near their village so they don't have to 24 travel down to upper 4A and crowd with those fishermen. 25 Folks in Ruby, they've been -- you know, as George said 26 in his analysis, it has not been utilized that much, 27 but they are beginning to experiment with drifting and 28 looking for spots. 29 30 It's a new opportunity for them. It's 31 not heavily used yet, but it's a wait and see and see 32 how they do. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: That's exactly 35 what I was looking for, to find out what backfire, what 36 conflicts would this cause if they were to expand that. 37 Personally, I don't see the expansion of it because I 38 understand what crowded fishing is and combat area 39 fishing is. We had quite a bit of that here on our own 40 Kuskokwim River. 41 42 If people are trying to learn how to 43 fish driftnet in their area, they need to learn their 44 area because that's their area where -- they need to 45 figure it out because if they go somewhere else to 46 learn their fishing, that's all they're going to know. 47 So my understanding would be that I do not support the 48 expansion of the area, but I would support repealing 49 the depth restriction. 50

Page 328 1 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. I 2 understand your concerns and I just want to make sure 3 we haven't confused you with our explanation. If we 4 don't expand the area, if we don't allow them to drift 5 gillnet in front of their home villages, and we are 6 talking about Galena and Ruby, the current problem is 7 that they are already going and fishing in front of 8 someone else's village. That's what they have to do if 9 they choose to drift gillnet legally. 10 11 So the people from all of those 12 villages said we don't want these people from upriver 13 coming down and fishing in our area because that's the 14 only legal place to them. Let's make it legal in front 15 of their homes in Galena and Ruby. So this proposal 16 doesn't expand their area additional to what we've done 17 in the State. The State said we want you to be able to 18 legally drift at home, in your home village. This is 19 now legal for you at home. You don't have to drive 40 20 miles to go do it legal. 21 22 So in that sense they are going to have 23 to learn their own area and this proposal I do not 24 believe will change that. This proposal does not 25 present, in my professional view as a management and 26 research biologist, this does not present a 27 conservation concern. Those people will get the number 28 of king and chum salmon they need and they will either 29 get them in front of their home or they will go to the 30 next village over and legally they will get them there. 31 So this just reduces crowding and gives them one more 32 option to fish at home. 33 34 I hope that clarifies that. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Holly. 37 Yes, it does. Any further comments. 38 39 (No comments) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 42 comments online. 43 44 (No comments) 45 46 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, folks. 47 48 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 49 50

Page 329 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 2 3 MS. PATTON: We do have our tribal -- 4 opportunity for tribal and village comment. 5 6 Thank you. 7 8 MR. PARENT: Madame Chair. Members of 9 the Council. Marvin Parent with Marshall Traditional 10 Council. Thank you very much. I hope I'm not bogging 11 down the process here, but I did find two errors 12 potentially. Under my analysis it looks like there's 13 an error with the agenda and how to proceed from there 14 with this and clarify the confusion that I had earlier. 15 16 If you take a look at the second page 17 of the agenda all the way on the bottom, crossover 18 fisheries, it states 4A and 4B on the last line of the 19 proposal. Everybody see that on the agenda? 20 21 MR. ALOYSIUS: Page 2? 22 23 MR. PARENT: Yes, Page 2, Bob. Mr. 24 Aloysius. I'm not too sure if it's the same in the 25 book, but on the paper that I have it states 4A and 4B 26 and then in draft staff analysis there's no mention of 27 4A at all. And then further reading I go down and I 28 see that on Subsection C in the Yukon River mainstream 29 Subdistricts 4B and C is the elimination of the 30 restrictions. 31 32 So I believe that the agenda is 33 incorrect if I'm not mistaken. I just need to know if 34 we need to clarify the agenda and/or go from there. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. 37 38 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 39 Thank you, Marvin, for catching that. The discussion 40 in the analysis that you find in your book is correct 41 as was presented by both the State and Federal Staff. 42 I think it's my error in the agenda. I in error had 43 indicated 4A and B. My apologies. Excellent. Thank 44 you for clarifying that. I do believe the presentation 45 to the Council was accurate in terms of which districts 46 they were referring to. 47 48 Thank you. 49 50

Page 330 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 2 Parent. 3 4 MR. PARENT: Marvin Parent again. The 5 second error I found is on Page 321 in the staff 6 analysis under regulatory history paragraph. Third 7 line down it shows 4B and 44C. I don't believe there's 8 44 districts in that section. 9 10 Thank you. 11 12 And my apologies if I'm bogging down 13 the process. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, you're doing 16 perfect. Thank you, Mr. Parent. 17 18 MR. PAPPAS: This is George Pappas. 19 Well noted. Yeah, that 44C will have to be an extra 20 special permit. 21 22 (Laughter) 23 24 MR. PAPPAS: Thank you, Madame Chair. 25 We will correct that. Thank you for paying attention 26 to that detail. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Mr. 31 Parent, did you have anything to say about this 32 proposal from your village? 33 34 MR. PARENT: The Marshall Traditional 35 Council. Thank you very much, Madame Chair. Members 36 of the Council. The Marshall Traditional Council has 37 no position and I believe that we have no say whatever 38 either. 39 40 Thank you. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Do we 43 have any other tribes present today. 44 45 (No comments) 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any on 48 teleconference. 49 50

Page 331 1 (No comments) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Eva, 4 Interagency Staff comments. 5 6 MS. PATTON: No ISC comments. That 7 should be removed from the process on your cards. 8 Again, other Regional Advisory Councils. George had 9 reported an information discussion, but the Council has 10 not met yet to make a formal recommendation on this 11 proposal and no ACs have met to make a formal 12 recommendation either. We do not have written public 13 comments for this proposal. 14 15 Thank you. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 18 Do we have any public testimony. 19 20 (No comments) 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 23 public testimony online. 24 25 (No comments) 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana. We'll go 28 ahead and go into Regional Council recommendation. 29 30 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move to 31 adopt FP19-01, Yukon salmon expansion of area and 32 fishing times of Subdistricts 4B and 33 4C and repeal maximum mesh depth restriction of 35 34 meshes deep for drift gillnets used in Subdistricts 4B 35 and 4C. 36 37 MR. ALOYSIUS: Second. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 40 Oney and Mr. Aloysius. Any further discussion and 41 justification. 42 43 (No comments) 44 45 MR. ANDREW: Question on the motion. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Question on the 48 motion has been called. Mr. Oney, would you do roll 49 call. Thank you. 50

Page 332 1 MR. ONEY: Raymond Oney, yes. 2 3 Robert Aloysius. 4 5 MR. ALOYSIUS: Yes. 6 7 MR. ONEY: David Bill, Sr. 8 9 MR. BILL: Yes. 10 11 MR. ONEY: James Charles. 12 13 MR. CHARLES: Yes. 14 15 MR. ONEY: John Andrew. 16 17 MR. ANDREW: Yes. 18 19 MR. ONEY: Alissa Rogers. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Abstain. 22 23 MR. ONEY: Motion carries. 24 25 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council, 26 if I may. Ray, if you could please summarize the 27 supporting motion for us. Council's justification for 28 supporting the proposal. We had very good discussion. 29 I would just like to reiterate your support for the 30 proposal. 31 32 Thank you. 33 34 MR. ONEY: In support of Proposal FP19- 35 01, in support to expand the area and fishing time in 36 Subdistricts 4B and 4C and to repeal maximum mesh depth 37 restrictions of 35 mesh deep for drift gillnet in 38 Subdistricts 4B and 4C. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And why did you 41 vote yes? 42 43 MR. ONEY: Because it is being 44 supported -- according to Holly's comments, it's being 45 supported all up and down the Yukon. 46 47 Thank you. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Andrew, why 50

Page 333 1 did you vote yes? 2 3 MR. ANDREW: To give those residents up 4 in that fishing area they can have easy access to and 5 the other fishermen need more elbow room downriver. 6 7 MS. PATTON: Thank you. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius 10 wants to comment. 11 12 MR. ALOYSIUS: Based on the fact that I 13 heard all positive feedback I voted yes. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right, folks. 16 Thank you for hanging in there. It is lunch time now. 17 I'd like to recess for lunch and then be back at 1:30. 18 19 (Off record) 20 21 (On record) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: We'll go ahead 24 and get started. I'm going to call this meeting back 25 to order at 1:37. We just had a few couple agenda 26 items that we're going to be moving around due to a 27 student's needing to check in at 3:30 and make sure we 28 don't want to hold them up. The suggestion is that we 29 move up -- what presentation was it again? 30 31 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 32 We have two ANSEP students to provide a really brief 33 presentation. Their internship work this summer with 34 ONC. They did have a PowerPoint presentation, however 35 the computer won't load the PowerPoint. We have 36 Janelle and Calvin. If the Council wishes to get a 37 real brief update from them on their internship this 38 summer and then resume with fisheries proposals. 39 40 First we would like to honor Lester 41 Wilde, Sr. He wasn't able to connect on the 42 teleconference this morning, but he's through and 43 online now. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 46 Can we go ahead and get a motion to suspend the rules 47 so we can change items on our agenda. 48 49 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair, I so move. 50

Page 334 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: Second. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 4 Oney. Thank you, Mr. Aloysius. So we're going to be 5 moving up ONC. Thank you, Janelle. Thank you, Calvin. 6 It's good to see you guys. I'm very proud of all the 7 work that you've done since you guys had a very busy 8 summer. Thank you for being a part of our process. 9 It's good to see youthful faces here. 10 11 Go ahead, Janelle. 12 13 MS. CARL: Hi, everyone. I'm Janelle 14 Carl and next to me is my old co-worker Calvin. This 15 summer Calvin and I we worked on tree swallow 16 monitoring, which went on from the beginning of May to 17 the middle of July. 18 19 We monitored the tree swallows because 20 there's a decline in area insectivores around the 21 country. The tree swallows are a good steady species 22 among all the aerial insectivores. They have a low 23 tolerance for disturbance, which means that we can 24 check their boxes and they'll still come back to the 25 boxes. These are boxes verified by Fish and Wildlife 26 and they're hung around town. 27 28 MR. SAMPSON: My name is Calvin Sampson 29 from Bethel. The way we monitor tree swallow is we 30 hang up the tree swallow boxes made by Fish and 31 Wildlife and look to see if any tree swallows actually 32 occupy one of those boxes and we write the data down. 33 Weeks after we're able to know the procreation of the 34 tree swallows, which is the number of eggs. 35 36 After those eggs hatch we wait until 9 37 through 12 days to band those tree swallows or 38 hatchlings. After they fledge we can clean out the 39 boxes for next season. 40 41 MS. CARL: We had photos showing what 42 we did this summer, but the presentation couldn't load 43 so we can't show those. So during tree swallow season 44 we watched them build their nest, wait until they lay 45 their eggs. When the eggs hatch, we band the adults 46 and then, as Calvin said, 9-12 days to band the chicks. 47 And then we leave them alone until they're all grown up 48 and fledged, which means left the nest. The data that 49 is collected we share locally and nationally. 50

Page 335 1 Does anyone have any questions? 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 4 5 MR. ALOYSIUS: You said you're 6 observing tree swallows. Do you guys build nests for 7 them? 8 9 MS. CARL: We watch them build their 10 nest throughout the season. 11 12 MR. ALOYSIUS: I meant their houses. 13 Do you guys build houses for them? 14 15 MS. CARL: Yes, we do. 16 17 MR. ALOYSIUS: What kind of material do 18 you use? 19 20 MS. CARL: Just wood. Plywood. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Their tree 23 swallow houses are built out of a standard procedure. 24 It's made out of plywood. 25 26 MR. ALOYSIUS: What grade of plywood? 27 28 (Laughter) 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: That's a good 31 question. I can't remember what it's called. 32 33 MR. ALOYSIUS: If it's plywood, it has 34 to be exterior because it won't last the summer if you 35 have interior. 36 37 MS. CARL: We have boxes that I think 38 lasted since last year. 39 40 MR. ALOYSIUS: Ten pound coffee cans 41 work better. 42 43 (Laughter) 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Does anyone from 46 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service remember what type of 47 wood it is? 48 49 MR. STAHLNECKER: Exterior grade. 50

Page 336 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Exterior grade is 2 what Ken said. 3 4 (Laughter) 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I hope we can get 7 your presentation up before either one of you have to 8 leave. It would be really great. I'd really love to 9 show these guys your pictures. You guys did an amazing 10 job. I'm so thankful for all your help. Continue to 11 help us and coming back every year. 12 13 MR. SAMPSON: Yeah. 14 15 MS. CARL: You're welcome. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Oney. 18 19 MR. ONEY: Thank you. Thank you for 20 coming up and letting us know about your project that 21 you're doing. You're hoping to get feedback from 22 people that may catch these swallows wherever they may 23 be after they leave here or you expect to see them come 24 back to the area that you're studying? 25 26 MS. CARL: So we band the tree swallows 27 and we check -- every summer they come back to Alaska 28 or surrounding villages. We see if they have a band on 29 their leg still from this year. If they're there, we 30 mark it as recaptured. If they don't have a band, we 31 band them, new band. We collect data like wing span, 32 beak size, how heavy they are, see if they have any 33 fat. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hey, Uncle Les, 36 would you be able to mute your phone. 37 38 MR. L. WILDE: Yes, I could. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana. Thank 41 you. Go ahead, Mr. Oney. 42 43 MR. ONEY: Thank you. I have them -- I 44 build swallow houses myself too around my home. 45 Sometimes I wonder if the same swallows come back to 46 the same house year after year as you're doing the 47 study. 48 49 Thank you. 50

Page 337 1 MS. CARL: The boxes that we make are 2 able to open from the side, like they have a door. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I know through 5 you guys's study, so do the swallows you banned from 6 last year come back this year in the same box? 7 8 MS. CARL: It depends on the swallow. 9 The males, they come in, they build part of the nest 10 and a week later females come in and they lay their 11 eggs, go into their process. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you guys know 14 any interesting facts that you learned this year about 15 swallows? 16 17 MR. SAMPSON: So we mentioned the 18 decline in aerial insectivores. The bad weather could 19 be one of the reasons. Aerial insectivores eat bugs in 20 the air and the bad weather could be taking away those 21 bugs. So, yeah, one of the reasons. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anything in 24 particular about having two nests? 25 26 MS. CARL: Some males tend to go to 27 different boxes or like some do, but most don't. Some 28 females would go to the same box. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Sorry folks. 31 We're hearing some interference online. 32 33 Thank you. Go ahead. 34 35 MS. CARL: We had a box that had two 36 females in them. There was like nine eggs, which is 37 above average. There's usually five to seven, but 38 there was a lot of eggs in that box. 39 40 Any more questions for Calvin and I? 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 43 44 MR. CHARLES: Thank you Madame Chair. 45 You see me, I'm an old man, but I like to do some 46 things and I've got swallow houses at my house in 47 Tuntutuliak and I carried the swallow house and put it 48 up there in Bethel. 49 50

Page 338 1 I am an old man, but I need education 2 like you folks are. You're young and you can learn a 3 lot. After you grow up -- you're still growing. 4 Anyway, when I was a kid I went to school only up to 5 fourth grade and here I am. I'm a RAC member and I'm a 6 member for Fish and Game Advisory Committee and I'm 7 with Intertribal Fish Commission too. 8 9 You can do so much, but you're young 10 and you can be like me. I'm an old pilot too. I've 11 been flying for 42 years. I've had six different 12 airplanes I haven't wrecked. I've been to pretty much 13 all over the state like Nome, Kotzebue, Point Barrow, 14 Anaktuvuk Pass and Fairbanks, Anchorage. I've been to 15 Bristol Bay a lot. 16 17 You can do so much. You're young and 18 you can learn a lot. You're still learning. I like 19 education too myself. Like my grandkid he's a pilot 20 for Grant Aviation now and soon my daughter she's one 21 of the bosses in Anchorage and my daughter lives in 22 Sitka and works for the dental department too. 23 24 So I like young people to learn a lot. 25 Like with Fish and Game also. I want people to learn 26 all the time. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana, Mr. 31 Charles. Mr. Aloysius. 32 33 MR. ALOYSIUS: (In Yup'ik) 34 35 MS. CARL: (In Yup'ik) 36 37 INTERPRETER: Yes, I speak Yup'ik. 38 39 MS. CARL: I don't know about Calvin. 40 41 MR. ALOYSIUS: I'm sorry, I can't hear 42 you. 43 44 MS. CARL: (In Yup'ik) 45 46 INTERPRETER: Yes, I can understand you 47 if you speak Yup'ik. 48 49 MR. ALOYSIUS: (In Yup'ik) 50

Page 339 1 INTERPRETER: What about you, Calvin? 2 3 MR. SAMPSON: I can almost understand 4 Yup'ik, but I graduated from my Yup'ik elementary 5 school, which is called Kilbuck or Ayaprun Elitnaurvik. 6 Yeah, I can understand a little bit. 7 8 MR. ALOYSIUS: One thing I would ask of 9 you, wherever you go, whatever you do, don't forget 10 your ancestry. Don't forget your apa and grandmas, 11 your uncles, aunts, cousins. Anybody you learn from 12 hold them in your heart and be humble. Any time you 13 need help, ask the Creator. 14 15 There's many times where I was at the 16 end of my rope and I remembered what my son told me. 17 Dad, take a deep breath. Let good air in, exhale, let 18 bad air out and do it 10 times in a row and then ask 19 God to help you with whatever problem you're having 20 because you're a human being. You only have so much 21 strength, but God has all the strength. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: For those of you 24 on teleconference can you please mute your phone. 25 We're hearing background noise as Mr. Aloysius is 26 speaking. 27 28 Thank you. 29 30 MR. ALOYSIUS: And say a little prayer 31 and ask him to help you with whatever is going on in 32 your life and tell him you're just a human being. 33 You're weak and you need help. My daughter, who's a 34 teacher now, she used to -- when she was student 35 teaching in Fairbanks, she used to call me every week 36 crying, Daddy, people are (indiscernible). 37 38 Will you please mute your phone? 39 40 (Laughter) 41 42 MS. PATTON: It's Lester Wilde on the 43 phone. He's waiting for us. 44 45 MR. ALOYSIUS: Who? 46 47 MS. PATTON: Lester Wilde, Sr. 48 49 MR. ALOYSIUS: Well, tell him to please 50

Page 340 1 mute his phone. Anyway, I used to tell her just take a 2 deep breath and talk to your apa grandma, your other 3 apa grandma and these are her ancestors and tell them 4 you're having problems. At the same time ask God to 5 help you overcome that. She graduated in 1960 -- no, 6 I'm talking about me. 7 8 (Laughter) 9 10 MR. ALOYSIUS: In 2006. About a week 11 later she called me up and said, Dad, you know what, I 12 got an A- in my student teaching. I told her, see, you 13 just have to reach out for help. You reach out for 14 help with your spirit and your mind and your heart and 15 God will answer. So don't forget you're Yupiaq. 16 You're not Yup'ik. You're Yupiaq. Thank God every day 17 and you'll make it through anything. 18 19 Quyana. 20 21 MS. CARL: Quyana cakneq. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 24 Aloysius. 25 26 MR. SAMPSON: Before we end this, we 27 also learned that one of the Yup'ik names for tree 28 swallows is kauturyaraq, meaning one that nests in 29 cavities. 30 31 MS. CARL: We'd also like to thank Fish 32 and Wildlife for this opportunity to monitor the tree 33 swallows, for ONC for giving us this job. I'd like to 34 thank ANSEP for giving me internships every summer. 35 36 MR. SAMPSON: Mainly the tree swallows 37 themselves. 38 39 (Applause) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you very 42 much, Janelle. Thank you, Calvin, for your work and 43 running through your presentation without a visual. 44 You guys did a wonderful job at pulling your 45 presentation together. I'm so thankful. Good job, 46 guys. 47 48 All right. Now we can get to Mr. 49 Lester Wilde. Are you there? 50

Page 341 1 MR. L. WILDE: Yes. You hear me? I 2 think I was muted. I'm sorry. You hear me now? 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, we can hear 5 you now. 6 7 MR. L. WILDE: Okay. 8 9 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 10 11 MR. L. WILDE: Yes, sir. (In Yup'ik) 12 13 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 14 15 MS. PATTON: Lester Wilde, we have the 16 whole Council here gathered and they wanted to present 17 you with a certificate. Alissa has a certificate 18 that's been signed by all the Council members and we'll 19 take that back and frame it and mail it to you, but the 20 Council did want to touch base with you to acknowledge 21 your many years of service and leadership and wisdom on 22 the Council. I'll let them speak for that, but thank 23 you for calling in. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 26 Thank you, Lester, for everything that you have done. 27 It's been greatly appreciated. I really wish you could 28 be here. I'm hoping that you would be able to come in 29 the spring at our spring meeting. I'm trying to work on 30 plans and getting funding for you to be here so you 31 could get this in person. 32 33 So our certificate of appreciation is 34 presented to Lester Wilde, Sr. in recognition of his 35 years of service to the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta 36 Subsistence Regional Advisory Council providing 37 invaluable leadership, wisdom and insight for your 38 Federal subsistence management for the years of 1996- 39 2017. We have Trapper John, James Charles, Ray Oney, 40 David Bill, Mr. Aloysius and myself who have signed 41 your certificate of appreciation. 42 43 I'll pass it off to our Council members 44 here that would like to say a couple words. We'll 45 start with Mr. Trapper John. 46 47 MR. ANDREW: Mr. Lester Wilde, (in 48 Yup'ik). 49 50

Page 342 1 INTERPRETER: Thank you for joining us 2 for all these years. We do miss you when we're working 3 with the rules and regulations. We do miss you when we 4 -- for 11 years we -- and we don't forget your sibling, 5 your older brother. We will give you the award in the 6 spring meeting. Here's the mic. 7 8 MR. L. WILDE: Thank you, John. 9 10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 11 12 MR. CHARLES: (In Yup'ik) 13 14 INTERPRETER: Thank you, Lester, and 15 from us we would like to thank you for leading us these 16 past years. Also Harry, who was leading us the past 17 years. We are grateful for those times you gave us 18 assistance to understand materials like our leaders 19 here. You made us understand all the materials. We do 20 miss you too and we want to help you. We will 21 appreciate it if you come in the spring too. 22 23 MR. L. WILDE: Thank you, James. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Oney. 26 27 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 28 just want to congratulate you, Lester, for all the 29 public service that you've done when you were on this 30 YK RAC Council. I hope you're enjoying your fall 31 hunting and gathering. 32 33 Congratulations. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 36 37 MR. ALOYSIUS: I don't have anything to 38 say. 39 40 (Laughter) 41 42 MR. ALOYSIUS: No, I'm just teasing. 43 We really miss you over here. There's nobody to look 44 at me and say what's the point of order, am I lost. 45 46 (Laughter) 47 48 MR. ALOYSIUS: Just that we miss you, 49 especially me. I'm still waiting for my..... 50

Page 343 1 MR. L. WILDE: You already got it. You 2 already got it. 3 4 MR. ALOYSIUS: He knows what I mean. 5 You know what I mean. 6 7 MR. L. WILDE: I miss you guys too a 8 lot. 9 10 MR. ALOYSIUS: Okay. Take care and the 11 Lord bless you, keep you well and safe and especially 12 grant you long life. 13 14 MR. L. WILDE: Thank you, James. Thank 15 you, Bob. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bill. 18 19 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 20 21 INTERPRETER: We do miss you, 22 especially this morning about those materials that you 23 guys used to work on when we were talking about Yukon 24 and Kuskokwim. We do miss those advice that you gave 25 us, even your older brother. We do miss him. But it 26 is in our future when we're -- but those duties you 27 gave to us will not be forgotten, but when there are 28 difficult situations we do miss them at times. 29 30 Thank you. 31 32 MR. L. WILDE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 33 Bill. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 36 Bill. Hi, Lester. We miss you lots. We miss your 37 leadership, your wisdom, your advice and I can't thank 38 you enough for everything that you've taught me. I 39 want you to know that you are very cherished and 40 hopefully be able to see you in spring meeting. I 41 believe Eva will get your certificate framed. 42 43 Thank you so much for everything. 44 45 MR. L. WILDE: Thank you for everything 46 too, Alissa. I told you before I left that I expected 47 you to be the next Chair and I kind of guessed that 48 right, I think. 49 50

Page 344 1 Congratulations. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Uncle 4 Lester. Eva. 5 6 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Lester, again, 7 for all your dedication and care and knowledge. As you 8 said, over 21 years of service and now it's time to 9 enjoy a good subsistence life. So thank you for all of 10 your good work and have a good time this fall in your 11 fall subsistence hunting and fishing and berry picking. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 MR. L. WILDE: I want to say one thing. 16 You know, I've always been -- I started working with 17 the subsistence long before 21 years, but I've been 18 with OSM and with the Advisory Council for 21 years. I 19 tried reapplying, but I guess they felt that 21 years 20 was long enough for me. 21 22 I appreciated working with every one of 23 you. All of you guys that have been there supporting 24 me in the positions that we had and being there just to 25 make sure that we're doing our job right. Not only us 26 but the people that came over to listen to our work and 27 they coming up to thank us for the work that we've 28 done. 29 30 It's been a very gratifying time that 31 I've spent on the RAC. If I could, if OSM didn't feel 32 that 21 years was enough, I'd still be there. Thank 33 you guys for all your recognition. I appreciate it 34 very much. 35 36 Thank you. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Uncle 39 Lester. Thank you. Eva. 40 41 MS. PATTON: Thanks again, Lester, for 42 calling in. I think we'll resume with the fisheries 43 proposals. All the good work the Council was doing 44 this morning. There's a few more to go here. Thanks 45 again, Lester. Glad you could join us by 46 teleconference. 47 48 MR. L. WILDE: You're welcome. 49 50

Page 345 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right, folks. 2 Let's get back to fishery proposals. I believe we're 3 on FP19-06. Right, Pippa? 4 5 MS. KENNER: We are. Thank you, 6 Alissa. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, it's the 7 final proposal. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Are we going over 10 Alaska Department of Fish and Game proposals? 11 12 MS. KENNER: Yes. I meant the final 13 Federal proposal. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, okay. 16 Thanks. 17 18 MS. KENNER: No, you're right. I 19 should have been more clear. So the analysis for this 20 proposal begins on Page 339. Proposal FP19-06 was 21 submitted by Don Woodruff of Eagle and it requests the 22 Board establish a new regulation to add conservation 23 protections to the first pulse of Yukon River chinook 24 salmon in Federal public waters in Districts 1 through 25 5. 26 27 That regulation would read: The first 28 pulse of chinook salmon in Districts 1 through 5 will 29 be protected in Federal public waters through 30 systematic closures coordinated with the first pulse 31 movement upstream as announced by the Federal in-season 32 manager. 33 34 The State regulation has similar 35 language, but it is only for Districts 1 and 2 and only 36 based on run indicators. Not every year, but based on 37 run indicators and protecting chinook salmon from 38 harvest. 39 40 The proponent notes that these fish are 41 primarily Canadian-bound stocks, and that it is the 42 Board's responsibility to ensure food security 43 throughout the Yukon River. The proponent states that 44 one or two years of fair runs of fish does not mean 45 that the fishery has recovered. In addition to this, 46 the proponent raises concerns over recent actions by 47 the Alaska Board of Fisheries to open first pulse 48 access in Districts 1 and 2, which he believes to be 49 counterproductive to recovery efforts. 50

Page 346 1 The proponent suggests that the first 2 pulse of Yukon River chinook salmon entering the river, 3 be protected with systematic fishing closures as they 4 travel upriver starting with District 1 first pulse and 5 continuing along the entire Yukon River to District 5 6 to ensure conservation and food security for future 7 generations. 8 9 So if FP19-06 were adopted by the 10 Board, Federally qualified subsistence users fishing 11 under Federal Subsistence regulations in Federal public 12 waters in all Yukon River Districts would have a 13 complete closure to the harvest of first pulse chinook 14 salmon. The proposal has the potential to limit 15 subsistence harvest opportunities during times of 16 higher abundance levels. 17 18 If adopted, this proposal would also 19 make Federal subsistence management regulations more 20 restrictive than State fishing regulations. If 21 adopted, there could be excessive harvest on later 22 arriving females, since males are known to primarily 23 make up the first pulse. 24 25 This proposal has the potential to 26 increase the focus of 27 fishing effort later in the summer during times of 28 poorer weather which could in turn increase spoilage. 29 Some or most of the fisherman are mobile enough that 30 the benefit of a closure in Federal public waters could 31 be offset by harvest in non-Federal public waters, 32 rendering this proposal ineffective at achieving its 33 stated intent. 34 35 If FP19-06 is not adopted, Districts 1 36 and 2 may be allowed conditional subsistence harvest 37 opportunity to fish the first pulse of chinook salmon. 38 However, if the preseason chinook salmon forecast 39 indicates insufficient abundance to meet escapement 40 goal objectives and subsistence harvest needs, the 41 Federal and/or the State in-season managers shall 42 manage the chinook salmon subsistence fishery 43 conservatively and not open any salmon subsistence 44 fishing periods during the first pulse of chinook 45 salmon entering the Districts. 46 47 So that statement means that even 48 though it might not be in regulation the two fishery 49 managers representing ADF&G and the Federal program 50

Page 347 1 would still be managing conservatively if the preseason 2 forecast indicated it was necessary to do so. 3 4 The OSM preliminary conclusion is to 5 oppose the proposal. 6 7 Thank you, Madame Chair. 8 9 That's the end of my presentation. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 12 A minute to digest. 13 14 Mr. Aloysius. 15 16 MR. ALOYSIUS: Why did OSM oppose the 17 proposal? 18 19 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Mr. Aloysius, 20 for that question. Madame Chair. OSM opposed the 21 proposal because it decreases subsistence opportunity 22 concerning the harvest of chinook salmon. The proposal 23 asked that even in times when preseason forecast tells 24 us we are likely to achieve escapement even with a 25 subsistence fishery, the first pulse should still be 26 protected in Districts 1 and 2. 27 28 MR. ALOYSIUS: Quyana. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Give them a 31 couple more minutes to look over or are you guys ready? 32 33 (Pause) 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. We'll go 36 ahead and move on. Thank you, Pippa, for the 37 presentation. 38 39 Eva. 40 41 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 42 Again, no formal comments on the Board's consultation 43 with tribes and ANCSA corporations. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 46 We'll go ahead and start with Ms. Holly Carroll, 47 Department of Fish and Game. 48 49 MS. CARROLL: Thank you, Madame Chair. 50

Page 348 1 The Department opposes this proposal. OSM made some 2 pretty good arguments that we share the same concerns. 3 I do want to give a little bit of background here to 4 paint a picture for you of how we currently manage the 5 fishery. That might help you. I also want to clear up 6 some misconceptions and some inaccurate biological 7 statements that were made in the proponent's arguments. 8 9 One of those is this. When the king 10 salmon come into the river, they come in groups that 11 are detectable. We call them pulses, but they're not 12 super distinct, but the proponent or OSM asserted that 13 the first pulse of the run is male. That is not 14 correct. The run is made up of a mixing of males and 15 females. There is no distinction among pulses as being 16 dominated by male or female. That's just incorrect. 17 18 What is important to note is that the 19 king salmon run on the Yukon is made up of a few 20 different stocks. One of the main stocks is the 21 Canadian origin stock. That makes up 40 percent of the 22 run, so it's the largest single stock. Mixed 23 throughout the whole run are stocks that are headed for 24 the Tanana River, stocks that are headed to the Koyukuk 25 River, stocks that are headed to the Porcupine River 26 and then middle U.S. stocks. Those all come in 27 intermingled throughout the run. 28 29 The proponent asserts that the majority 30 of the first pulse is Canadian-origin fish. That's a 31 common misconception. It comes down to kind of the use 32 of numbers. The first pulse of king salmon that come 33 in typically it first comes in as a trickle of fish and 34 then you'll see the first large group of fish. 35 Technically we would call all those early fish and then 36 the first pulse -- all those fish up to that point they 37 make up the first quarter of the run. 38 39 Sometimes those fish can have a large 40 proportion of Canadian-origin fish, that is true, but 41 the largest number of fish that come in, the highest 42 density of fish that come in is in the second and the 43 third pulse. That's where most of the fish are. 44 45 In the past we have been very 46 conservative at the front of the run to protect the 47 first pulse and there's two reasons for doing that. 48 One is when that first pulse comes in, we don't know 49 anything about the run strength yet. We really only 50

Page 349 1 have a test fishery that tells us presence and absence 2 and timing. 3 4 Then, when the fish get to Pilot 5 Station sonar, we can assess how big -- how high the 6 numbers are. That's the first place the fish are 7 counted. That's up in District 2. So it pays to take 8 a conservative approach and protect the first pulse and 9 that's what we've been doing for the past nine years. 10 11 We've even been protecting the second 12 pulse and the third pulse as needed. But when you 13 completely close these pulses to subsistence fishing, 14 we allow no access. What happens then is when we open 15 up subsistence fishing now all 2,000 of those 16 households are all hammering the last pulse or the last 17 two pulses. That is not a sound practice for spreading 18 your harvest across all the ages and all the stocks 19 that might be present. 20 21 We do know that some of our lower river 22 stocks, like the Andreafsky or the Tanana come in 23 later. Those are U.S. stocks. Those are not Canadian- 24 bound stocks. If we expect the entire river to do all 25 of their harvesting at the end of the run, we might be 26 overharvesting those stocks. So the Department tries 27 to take an approach where we take a little bit of 28 harvest across the entire run. 29 30 We've also heard from subsistence users 31 particularly in the Lower River where fishermen are 32 inundated with summer chum. If they can go fishing 33 early, they can put up a few of their kings. The 34 weather is right for drying strips. Even if they wait 35 two weeks later the weather might turn and they might 36 get the flies, so that's not good for strip drying. 37 38 But also they will be inundated with 39 chums and I mean thousands. I mean in the Lower River 40 if a fisherman goes out with a 6-inch net, he could get 41 300 chums in 30 seconds. This is a real possibility. 42 So it's hard for fishermen to get their kings. So 43 knowing this we try to provide opportunity early when 44 the fish are trickling in. We try to provide 45 opportunity later as all the different stocks are 46 coming in. 47 48 So to require us to close fishing on 49 the first pulse all the way up the river no matter what 50

Page 350 1 the run strength I think reduces our flexibility to 2 conserve stocks and I think it also could be an 3 overburden on the subsistence fishermen. 4 5 For those reasons we do oppose this 6 proposal. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Ms. 9 Carroll. Any comments for Holly. 10 11 (No comments) 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Seeing none. Go 14 ahead. 15 16 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann with 17 Fish and Wildlife Service. We also oppose this for 18 essentially the same reasons that Holly gave. We're 19 trying to spread that harvest and not hit one stock or 20 just protect one stock. For those reasons we also 21 oppose this. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any 26 comments, questions. 27 28 (No comments) 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Going 31 on to -- Eva, do we have anything for Board 32 consultation? 33 34 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 35 We're down to Regional Advisory Councils. Again, no 36 other Councils have met and no ACs have taken this up 37 either and no public written comments for this 38 proposal. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 41 42 MS. PATTON: But we will want to 43 check..... 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Parent, did 46 your..... 47 48 MS. PATTON: .....(indiscernible). 49 50

Page 351 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....village have 2 anything? Okay. Thank you. Go ahead and come up. I 3 apologize. 4 5 MR. PARENT: Marvin Parent, Marshall 6 Traditional Council. Madame Chair. Members of the 7 Council. Thank you very much. This was a confusing 8 proposal that I read over. I looked at it on the 9 agenda and I discussed it with members of our tribal 10 council and they said that they were for the protection 11 of the first pulse. We have been sacrificing in recent 12 history that first pulse to allow escapement. 13 14 Upon further reading of the proposal 15 and hearing a total closure is concerning to me 16 personally. If I had notated that to the other council 17 members I had conferred with, I think they would be in 18 agreement with me. However, I don't want to speak for 19 them because I have not discussed that information with 20 them and it would be improper for me to do so. 21 22 Speaking personally, I'd like to say to 23 the Federal and State managers that we appreciate their 24 consideration in this matter with regards to allowing 25 us certain limited amounts of harvest of the first 26 pulse. I think that's pretty much all I can say in an 27 official capacity because I did not have full 28 information when I deliberated this information to the 29 -- or disseminated the information to my other council 30 members. 31 32 I have heard a lot of complaints on the 33 VHF, a lot of chatter during the first pulse, that 34 important king salmon, large chinooks were going by on 35 closure announcements. So there is some anecdotal 36 evidence right there that this isn't a very popular 37 proposal because of the fact that we continue to 38 sacrifice and we'll be sacrificing even more with this 39 proposal. 40 41 So, given that, like I said I cannot 42 comment, you know, but I want to extend the 43 appreciation to the State and Federal managers their 44 allowance of us to get a limited amount. 45 46 Thank you. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 49 Parent. Do we have any tribal members online. 50

Page 352 1 (No comments) 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Moving on to 4 public testimony. Anybody from the audience. 5 6 (No comments) 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anybody online 9 that would like to speak to this proposal. 10 11 (No comments) 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you very 14 much. I'd like to entertain that we go into the 15 Regional Council recommendations. 16 17 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move to 18 adopt FP19-06. Yukon chinook - first pulse protection 19 of chinook salmon in Districts 1-5 using closures 20 announced by Federal in-season manager. 21 22 MR. CHARLES: I second the motion. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 25 Oney. Thank you, Mr. Charles. Discussion. Mr. 26 Aloysius. 27 28 (No comments) 29 30 MR. ANDREW: Question on the motion. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Question on the 33 motion. Mr. Oney, roll call, please. 34 35 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. I 36 thought you wanted me to comment. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No, sorry. Would 39 you like to comment? 40 41 MR. ONEY: I'm okay. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Continue. 44 45 MR. ONEY: FP19-06. Raymond Oney, yes. 46 47 Alissa Rogers. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Abstain. 50

Page 353 1 MR. ONEY: Robert Aloysius. 2 3 MR. ALOYSIUS: Yeah. 4 5 MR. ONEY: Was that a yes? 6 7 MR. ALOYSIUS: Yeah. Yes. 8 9 MR. ONEY: Thank you. 10 11 James Charles. 12 13 MR. CHARLES: Yes. 14 15 MR. ONEY: John Andrew. 16 17 MR. ANDREW: No. 18 19 MR. ONEY: David Bill, Sr. 20 21 MR. BILL: Yes. 22 23 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. Four yes, one 24 no, one abstention. Motion carries. 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 27 Oney. Eva. 28 29 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council, 30 if I may. A few words of justification. So we heard 31 from the Staff and our tribes. Again, a yes vote on 32 this would be a complete closure of the first pulse 33 protection and a no vote would be the current process 34 of allowing some harvest on the fish during each of the 35 runs. So if I could just have justification for the 36 vote. 37 38 Thank you. 39 40 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Andrew. 41 42 MR. ANDREW: The reason is that I know 43 for our river the first pulse is always a mixed stock. 44 You always mislabel that to say that -- using our own 45 river as an example, you always say the first ones are 46 for way upriver. It's not a fact because I've seen 47 them in the early runs before there were any 48 restrictions they're going to any river of their 49 origin. 50

Page 354 1 Thank you. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 4 5 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 6 I voted yes that time because I come from Lower 7 Kuskokwim and we always want fish, fish, fish, but we 8 have been fishing all kinds now. So even down below we 9 fish for whitefish now in springtime, but that's not 10 our way of life. When I was a kid, we'd be in spring 11 camp and not fish on the Kuskokwim River or rivers 12 that's going into the rivers -- I mean fish going into 13 the rivers down below. 14 15 Thank you. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 18 Charles. 19 20 Mr. Oney. 21 22 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 23 Yeah, I voted yes because I feel that we need in-river 24 subsistence years and an opportunity to at least get a 25 few fish from the pulse that are going by. 26 27 Thank you. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 30 31 MR. ALOYSIUS: The wording of first 32 pulse protection of king salmon seems like a good start 33 for me. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bill. 36 37 MR. BILL: I voted yes because our 38 ancestors have been using the fish for -- used their 39 boats to come to Kuskokwim to get salmon to help their 40 family and some go by inland and some of them come by 41 the ocean. It takes more than two days to get there on 42 the same boat. A lot of hard work that they did for 43 trying to live. We too want to have them. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. The 46 reason why I abstained is because we don't have very 47 many communities, tribes, councils had voiced their 48 opinion on this particular proposal from any of the 49 areas. I like to hear what the communities and the 50

Page 355 1 tribes and the people affected by these proposals 2 before I like to make my recommendation. 3 4 I did want to get into possibly maybe a 5 revisit of this proposal because by your justifications 6 they're not matching our voting. So the voting was 7 that if you're for this proposal, you're..... 8 9 MR. PARENT: Restricting. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: .....restricting 12 subsistence, not giving the opportunity. So if you 13 wanted to give the opportunity for subsistence, you 14 would vote no, okay. So would someone want to recall 15 the motion to -- what's it called? Revisit? 16 17 MS. PATTON: Reconsider. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Reconsider. 20 Since I can't do it. 21 22 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair, I move to 23 reconsider the vote on FP19-06. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any questions or 26 further comments. 27 28 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair. If I may 29 just to make sure it's clear what the vote is. This 30 proposal is requesting to have a complete closure on 31 that first pulse. So voting yes would create a 32 complete closure to any subsistence fishing on that 33 first pulse. Voting no would keep the process as it is 34 as was described by both the State and Federal manager 35 where there's some opportunity for communities to have 36 a limited harvest on that first pulse. 37 38 Again a yes vote would restrict any 39 fishing on that first pulse completely with this 40 proposal. 41 42 Thank you. 43 44 MR. CHARLES: I keep my voting like it 45 was. Like I said, I am not fishing anymore like I 46 wanted to, so I keep it that way. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: He asked a motion 49 to revisit the motion. 50

Page 356 1 MR. CHARLES: Yeah, we can revisit that 2 too. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So, yeah, 5 it's back on the table. Further discussion. Go ahead, 6 Mr. Aloysius. 7 8 MR. ALOYSIUS: Sometimes my fellow 9 board members seem like they don't understand. So I 10 think it would be great to reconsider. 11 12 Thank you. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 15 Aloysius. So before we get into voting I wanted to 16 make sure that you guys understand. A yes vote would 17 be to restrict and a no vote would be to have more 18 openings, opportunity. 19 20 Mr. Aloysius. 21 22 MR. ALOYSIUS: It's pretty simple when 23 it's first pulse protection of chinook salmon in 24 Districts 1 through 5 using closures by the Federal in- 25 season manager. That's what it means. That's what it 26 says. We are protecting the first pulse. That's why I 27 voted yes. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Holly, were you 30 able to get what Mr. Aloysius said? 31 32 MS. CARROLL: Unfortunately not. I'm 33 sorry. I need you to repeat your question if you 34 would, please. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: He had a 37 statement. 38 39 MR. ALOYSIUS: If you read the 40 beginning of FP19-06, it says first pulse protection of 41 chinook salmon in District 1 to 5 using closures by the 42 Federal in-season manager. That's what it says, what 43 it means. 44 45 MS. CARROLL: Right. What I wanted to 46 clarify was that Madame Chair read it as a restriction 47 on the first pulse and if we're going to be literal 48 what this proposal wants is a full subsistence closure. 49 No gillnets in the water. No retention of kings. So 50

Page 357 1 there would be no opportunity to fish the first pulse 2 in any of the Yukon districts if this passes. 3 4 MS. KENNER: Okay. Excellent. So now 5 we're back to where we were, which means that if you 6 support this, if you vote yes, there will be a full 7 closure on the first pulse all the way up the river. 8 If you support this, if you say yes, there will be a 9 full closure. 10 11 Do you have a second to the motion, 12 Madame Chair? 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 15 16 MS. KENNER: You do? 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. Go ahead. 19 20 MR. ONEY: Yeah, I think it's pretty 21 much understood. I'm hoping that you guys understand 22 it. If we vote yes, that means a total closure. No 23 opening of subsistence fishing anywhere on the river if 24 we vote yes. If you heard earlier, OSM and ADF&G 25 oppose this and they want to allow us to at least get a 26 little bit of access to that fish as it goes by. If 27 you vote no, you have an opportunity to do that. 28 Saying yes means a total closure. No fishing of any 29 type from the mouth of the Yukon up to District 5. 30 31 MR. ALOYSIUS: I realize that. To me, 32 protection is protection. I don't know about you 33 fellows. We're still in the mode of conservation. We 34 need to conserve. We need to conserve. So that's why 35 I'm voting yes. 36 37 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Bob. This is 38 Pippa again. So all we're doing right now is 39 clarifying the motion and making sure everybody knows 40 what we're voting on. It's one of those odd proposals. 41 So as long as everybody knows time to call the 42 question. 43 44 MR. HARRIS: Madame Chair, this is 45 Frank. May I speak for a second. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay, Frank, go 48 ahead. 49 50

Page 358 1 MR. HARRIS: I think it's important to 2 note that this would be a complete closure on Federal 3 waters only. State waters would still be under State 4 jurisdiction and open to their management. So this 5 proposal would only close it on Federal waters, so 6 there would be sections of the river that would be 7 under State management available to be opened or closed 8 according to their management. 9 10 Thank you. 11 12 MS. KENNER: So said. 13 14 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we need to 15 call the question? 16 17 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I will vote 18 no on this proposal. I made a mistake on the first 19 one. So I'll go ahead and vote no. I think we need to 20 have at least a little bit of access to the pulse of 21 salmon that are going by. So I will vote no. 22 23 Thank you. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 26 Oney. 27 28 MR. ONEY: I call for the question. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The question has 31 been called. Mr. Oney, would you do us the honor of 32 calling roll call. 33 34 MR. ONEY: Thank you. Raymond Oney, 35 no. 36 37 Robert Aloysius. 38 39 MR. ALOYSIUS: Yes. 40 41 MR. ONEY: David Bill, Sr. 42 43 MR. BILL: No. 44 45 MR. ONEY: James Charles. 46 47 MR. CHARLES: I vote no this time. 48 49 MR. ONEY: John Andrew. 50

Page 359 1 MR. ANDREW: No. 2 3 MR. ONEY: Alissa Rogers. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No. 6 7 MR. ONEY: Motion fails. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. 10 Moving into Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program 11 Priority Information Needs. OSM Council Coordinator, 12 Fisheries and Anthropology will be presenting this. 13 14 Thank you, Pippa. 15 16 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 17 I'm Pippa Kenner and I'm with the Office of Subsistence 18 Management. Online is likely Gary Decossas, who worked 19 with me helping as staff to the Council on the 20 Kuskokwim, and Frank Harris who also was staff to the 21 Councils for the Yukon, developing their priority 22 information needs, and Eva and other Council 23 Coordinators who helped with this process. 24 25 To begin with we're going to just 26 quickly go over what is the Fisheries Resource 27 Monitoring Program. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 30 visuals of this? 31 32 MS. KENNER: We have none. Also this 33 isn't a public process. We're going to report to you 34 what your working group, the information they 35 collected, and they're going to make a recommendation 36 to you for what priority information needs should be 37 adopted for the Kuskokwim River Drainage. We'll do 38 Kuskokwim first. 39 40 Okay. So the Office of Subsistence 41 Management looks for technically-sound projects for the 42 Monitoring Program that gather information to manage 43 and conserve subsistence fishery resources in Alaska. 44 The Monitoring Program is also directed at supporting 45 meaningful involvement in fisheries management by 46 Alaska Native and rural organizations and promoting 47 collaboration among Federal, State, Alaska Native and 48 local organizations. To put succinctly, we promote 49 partnerships. Partnerships and capacity building with 50

Page 360 1 local organizations. 2 3 Every two years there is an 4 announcement of a funding opportunity and in that 5 announcement there are priority information needs for 6 each region. That is to direct people who are applying 7 for this funding to do research. It's to direct their 8 research to only those areas of fisheries science that 9 is critically necessary for the management of the 10 fisheries and for the health of the fisheries and for 11 continuing subsistence uses. That is now up to the 12 Councils to determine what those priority information 13 needs are. 14 15 So two types of research projects are 16 requested. One is harvest monitoring. Another is 17 traditional ecological knowledge and another is stock 18 status and trends. Harvest monitoring and traditional 19 ecological knowledge address subsistence fishing, 20 including quantifications of harvest and effort and 21 description and assessment of fishing and use patterns 22 of people. Stock status and trends address abundance, 23 composition, timing, behavior of the status of fish 24 populations. 25 26 I just want to remind you that research 27 priorities that fall outside of the scope of this 28 funding opportunity and will not be considered include 29 habitat protection, mitigation, restoration and 30 enhancement, hatchery propagation, 31 restoration/enhancement supplementation and contaminant 32 assessment evaluation and monitoring. These activities 33 are most appropriately addressed by the responsible 34 land management or regulatory agency. 35 36 So since 2000 when the program started 37 we have funded 104 projects in the Kuskokwim region 38 through this Monitoring Program. We are starting a new 39 way of addressing the Councils with this and that is to 40 develop a working group made up of members of the two 41 Councils on the Kuskokwim, which are the Western 42 Interior and the Y-K Delta, to discuss these issues and 43 to develop the priority information needs. 44 45 Beforehand, staff have already talked 46 to fishery managers, YRDFA, people who do research and 47 gotten their opinion of what their priority information 48 needs are. Just so we can tell you what those are. If 49 you're looking at the Yukon handout, which I forgot to 50

Page 361 1 tell you. If you're looking at the Kuskokwim handout, 2 on the last two pages are that list of priority 3 information needs. 4 5 What I want to point out to you is this 6 is an action item. We want you to discuss it, come up 7 with a final list, make a motion to approve it and 8 vote. 9 10 So to help you what I'm going to tell 11 you is this list all the way down to geographic 12 distribution and abundance of whitefish species, which 13 is four up from the bottom, these have basically been 14 in the priority information needs for the Kuskokwim for 15 several cycles. For a number of years. They address 16 the weirs, the harvest assessment. 17 18 Recently we had a strategic plan for 19 whitefish, so whitefish have been specifically added to 20 that list over the past two to four years and we 21 continue to have some questions about whitefish. 22 23 Now what I'd like to do is point out 24 the two or three new priority information needs that 25 came up specifically from the working group and that is 26 how salmon subsistence harvest restrictions have or are 27 likely to affect people's uses of fish and other 28 resources in the Kuskokwim area. 29 30 The second one that was added by the 31 working group is changes in abundance and distribution 32 of sockeye salmon within the Kuskokwim River Drainage, 33 including the documentation of traditional ecological 34 knowledge. 35 36 We will meet with the Western Interior 37 Council too and then we're likely, with your 38 permission, to condense these priority information 39 needs into 8 to 12 bullets. 40 41 I'd like to stop now and ask if you 42 have any questions. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Give them a 45 minute to digest. 46 47 MS. KENNER: I don't think I told you 48 who was in the working group. Did I cover that? I 49 think I forgot to. Oh, that's important. 50

Page 362 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 2 3 MS. KENNER: So from the Western 4 Interior we had Ray Collins because he is one of the 5 Western Interior members that lives in the Kuskokwim 6 drainage. We also had James Charles and John Andrew 7 when we were talking about priority information needs 8 on the Kuskokwim. 9 10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 11 I had a couple for you, Pippa. Do you guys have on 12 here -- I know you're talking about whitefish. Can you 13 elaborate a little bit more on what specifically we're 14 looking at at whitefish. 15 16 MS. KENNER: Thank you for that 17 question, Madame Chair. Are you asking me for the 18 whitefish priority information needs that are on this 19 list? Would you like me to point them out? 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 22 23 MS. KENNER: All right. So in the 24 Whitefish Strategic Plan it pointed out a number of 25 information needs for whitefish. A lot of those 26 information needs had to do with the harvest and use. 27 We've been slowly funding those projects over the last 28 four to eight years. There's been a lot of whitefish 29 research going on. There's one that had not been 30 addressed yes and it has been in the priority 31 information needs and it's local knowledge of whitefish 32 species in Central Kuskokwim River Drainage 33 communities. 34 35 Groups of communities might include 36 Kalskag, Lower Kalskag, Aniak and Chuathbaluk or Red 37 Devil, Sleetmute and Stony River. We have a general 38 call for proposals in the priority information needs 39 for traditional ecological knowledge of salmon and 40 whitefish species. 41 42 A new one would be fish harvest and use 43 patterns within non-salmon within tributaries of the 44 Lower Kuskokwim River in which salmon do not spawn. 45 The geographic distribution of abundance of whitefish 46 species. There's still a lot of questions in the 47 Kuskokwim drainage. Information that local people have 48 would be very helpful. 49 50

Page 363 1 And a spatially robust indexing method 2 for estimating species-specific whitefish harvest on an 3 annual basis. What that means is that rather than 4 going around and asking everybody every year how many 5 whitefish did you harvest this year, it's statistically 6 just asking a sample of households what they harvest 7 and then expanding it to the whole region. Work needs 8 to be done on developing those statistical methods for 9 doing that. 10 11 Thank you, Madame Chair. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 14 Do you guys have the effects of the 4-inch mesh on 15 whitefish abundance? 16 17 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. I don't see 18 that specifically. We do have one concerning the 19 effects on salmon. But, no, I don't think that's in 20 here. Is that a recommendation to add? 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: From me 23 personally I know in our post-season data when we first 24 started with Ms. Holly Carroll, I was adding it as a 25 side note on our post-season surveys about the -- I was 26 asking people did you fish with 4-inch or not and 27 asking them questions if it was effective or how many 28 did you catch and then write it on a sideline of it 29 even though it was a part of post-season harvest salmon 30 surveys. When we started that 4-inch mesh there was so 31 much worry about whitefish being an issue of possible 32 decline in abundance because they were being targeted 33 so heavily with 4-inch mesh gear. So I just wanted to 34 see if you guys would -- if this was incorporated 35 somewhere within these ones. 36 37 And then also on your last one, changes 38 in abundance and distribution of sockeye salmon. Would 39 it be a possibility to add chum and coho to that? 40 41 MS. KENNER: Yes. Maybe you could 42 discuss it with the working group members on your 43 Council. There was a pretty in-depth discussion of 44 sockeye salmon. I'd be glad to add -- maybe that 45 conversation could continue with James and John Andrew. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 48 Another one I had was would there be a possibility of 49 adding a coho study in here? This year when I was 50

Page 364 1 asking for information about coho, it seemed that we 2 didn't have very much information about coho besides 3 the studies that were conducted through Department of 4 Fish and Game at the Kalskag fishwheel, the targeting 5 and recapture. That seemed to have the only 6 information that we had and we didn't have any 7 information after that. 8 9 Now, with the decline that happened 10 this year, it seems important that we at least have 11 some type of baseline information about coho. At least 12 that's my personal opinion. 13 14 MS. KENNER: By baseline you mean -- 15 for instance we have a similar one, reliable 16 quantitative and qualitative estimates of salmon run 17 size escapement and harvest throughout the Kuskokwim 18 River Drainage. So that's for salmon run size, but you 19 would like an equivalent one for maybe -- oh, yeah, we 20 do have it. There we go. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: One specifically 23 for coho? 24 25 MS. KENNER: Don't have one 26 specifically for coho. That's a suggestion and I wrote 27 it down. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 30 Any further discussion, comments or anything you guys 31 would like to see in addition. 32 33 Mr. Stahlnecker. 34 35 MR. STAHLNECKER: Thank you, Madame 36 Chair. At the risk of being out of line, I wanted to 37 get some clarification if I could on the process that 38 you described that formulated this list. You mentioned 39 the managers were talked to and I guess I'm wondering 40 what managers were talked to. 41 42 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Mr. 43 Stahlnecker. So what we did -- this is Pippa Kenner 44 again. What we did is we contacted at least the 45 Federal managers and more and we asked them for a list 46 of priority information needs and that is the basis of 47 this list that we're asking the Council to consider as 48 priority information needs. In addition to those, the 49 working group added a few more. So the ones that we 50

Page 365 1 received from you and the Intertribal Fisheries 2 Commission and also from the State fisheries manager 3 are the basis of this list. 4 5 MR. STAHLNECKER: Okay, thanks. So 6 where can we find a copy of that list? Can we..... 7 8 MS. KENNER: Currently it's just what 9 the working group provided us with. We're having the 10 working group report to the Council right now and get 11 their observations and additions and get their 12 concurrence that this will be the list of priority 13 information needs and then it will be made public. 14 15 Excuse me. This will be in the Notice 16 of Funding Opportunity that will be published in late 17 November. We'll be requesting applications and 18 proposals for people to do this research and we would 19 like that research to be targeted and directed at these 20 priority information needs. 21 22 MR. STAHLNECKER: Okay. So the 23 information/suggestions that were provided by managers 24 through the email solicitation are included on this 25 list. 26 27 MS. KENNER: Yes. They are the basis 28 of this list right here. 29 30 MR. STAHLNECKER: Okay. Thank you. 31 32 MS. KENNER: Yeah, you're welcome. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Was there 35 anything you would like to add, Mr. Stahlnecker, or 36 bring to our attention? 37 38 MS. KENNER: I think what he's saying 39 is he hasn't seen the list because we were still kind 40 of keeping it internal to give the Councils a chance to 41 really focus in on what they've heard and what's been 42 going on in the villages and what they're interested 43 in. Those other important priority information needs 44 are here that we got directly from the manager. 45 They're the ones that have to do with the weirs and 46 things like that. You have that list in front of you. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 49 Stahlnecker. 50

Page 366 1 MR. STAHLNECKER: Thank you, Madame 2 Chair. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Council, is there 5 anything else you guys would like to add or have any 6 questions about. 7 8 (No comments) 9 10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Thank 11 you. 12 13 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair, thank you. 14 So there hasn't been much more discussion about adding 15 the chum that you mentioned. There was quite a lot of 16 discussion among the working group about sockeye salmon 17 and how that run is looking different than people are 18 familiar with. Maybe we could have some directed 19 research on what's going on with sockeye. You asked 20 add chum to that? 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: And coho. 23 24 MS. KENNER: Okay. And then I would 25 ask you for permission. Some of these priority 26 information needs are overlapping one another. I don't 27 want to take the time right now to address it in detail 28 with the Council because we don't really have the time, 29 but I would like your permission to be able to combine 30 some of these together, but we will try to maintain the 31 specificity of those requests. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 34 35 MS. KENNER: Now if the Council could 36 approve their list. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I take it we 39 would need a motion and a second and a full vote. 40 41 MS. KENNER: If you would. Thank you. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 44 It sounds like we need a motion on the floor to approve 45 this list for the Kuskokwim area, the draft priority 46 needs list. 47 48 MR. ANDREW: Madame Chair. I move that 49 we approve the Kuskokwim Region priority information 50

Page 367 1 needs report. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 4 Andrew. Do we have a second. 5 6 MR. CHARLES: I'll second the motion, 7 Madame Chair. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 10 Charles. Any further discussion. 11 12 (No comments) 13 14 MR. ONEY: Question. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The question has 17 been called. All those in favor say aye. 18 19 IN UNISON: Aye. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 22 same sign. 23 24 (No opposing votes) 25 26 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 27 28 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 29 Now we're going to move on to the Yukon. We've already 30 done the presentation. Based on questions from the 31 audience I'm going to include some additional 32 information. 33 34 So we canvassed fish management 35 organization, which includes the Alaska Department of 36 Fish and Game and the Federal in-season manager when 37 we're talking about the Yukon, which is Fred Bue and 38 Gerald Maschmann. We also contact the Division of 39 Subsistence at Fish and Game, YRDFA chimed in and we 40 asked them to suggest priority information needs. When 41 we met with the working group, the working group 42 included Tim Gervais in the Western Interior Region, 43 Andy Bassich in the Eastern Interior Region and both 44 Ray Oney and Mike Peters in the Y-K Delta Region of the 45 Yukon Drainage. 46 47 The list, again, there's not a lot of 48 surprises. The Yukon is bigger, it's more specific. 49 It includes a general call for proposals that help us 50

Page 368 1 understand chinook salmon run size, harvest, quality of 2 escapement. There's also some priority information 3 needs for sub parts of the drainage. This is again on 4 the sixth page of your handout for the Yukon. 5 6 So we have reliable assessment of 7 Porcupine River fall chum salmon. We have the usual 8 request for age 6 length. We also have a request for 9 information concerning genetic composition to help us 10 know where fish have come from and where they're going, 11 how many are going to go over the border. Some part of 12 all of these have been in the priority information 13 needs for quite a few years now. 14 15 In addition, the working group 16 considered a couple of these priority information needs 17 specifically. So even though baseline information 18 about lamprey populations, migration patterns and 19 harvest quantities has been in the priority information 20 needs, it was discussed and it was concluded that that 21 priority information need is still important. There's 22 a lot of lamprey harvested and very little is known 23 about those runs. So the working group suggested that 24 remain. 25 26 What's been on the priority information 27 needs in the past is the assessment of incidental 28 mortality with gillnets, dipnets and seines. With 29 particular consideration for delayed mortality from 30 entanglement from drop-outs and live release of chinook 31 salmon. That continues to be a priority information 32 need and was discussed by your working group. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 35 We'll just give them a minute to digest. I guess a 36 quick question would be do you have anything on here 37 for humpbacks, humpies? 38 39 MS. KENNER: I didn't remember any and 40 I just skimmed over it and there isn't a call for 41 information about white -- I mean there isn't a 42 priority information need concerning -- oh, yeah. 43 Baseline information about whitefish populations, 44 migration patterns and harvest particularly those where 45 habitat and traditional harvest practices could be 46 affected by proposed road and mine development. 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Sorry, Pippa. I 49 should have been more clear. Pink salmon. 50

Page 369 1 MS. KENNER: Oh, pink salmon. No, I 2 doubt it. I'm looking over it. We want quantitative 3 and qualitative estimates of salmon harvest in general, 4 which includes pink in general. There is no focus on 5 pink salmon in these priority information needs. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Oney, my 8 question to you is there a concern for pink salmon. 9 10 MR. ONEY: From most of the fishermen 11 that I've talked to they'd rather not catch pink salmon 12 because they are a nuisance when you do catch them. I 13 know (indiscernible) had a small fishery on that and I 14 think it just happened once or twice and after that 15 they never brought it up again. To me they're probably 16 the last salmon you want to catch if you're going to 17 catch any type of salmon. Marvin can correct me if I'm 18 wrong on that. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Oney, the 21 reason why I bring it up is because in Hooper Bay all 22 they can catch is pink salmon, so it's their huge 23 subsistence priority on pink salmon. In Hooper Bay, 24 their dried fish strips are majorly made out of pink 25 salmon. It's a concern to me because talking with 26 Lester two years ago there wasn't very much pink salmon 27 and his wife was super worried about being able to have 28 enough fish to sustain them. I gave them pretty much 29 three-fourths of my salmon catch so that they had food 30 to sustain themselves through the remainder of the 31 year. 32 33 MS. KENNER: Question, Madame Chair. 34 35 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, Pippa. 36 37 MS. KENNER: So are they harvesting 38 primarily in the marine waters? Are the pinks going 39 through Etolin on their way to the Yukon or are they up 40 in rivers and streams that are near Hooper Bay? 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: It's right there 43 on the ocean. If you look at the navuk (ph) that comes 44 out, right where the navuk comes out at the end where 45 we usually go clam digging, we usually beach seine and 46 drift -- well, one person would be on land in hip boots 47 or waders and holding one side of the net while the 48 other person is out on the boat and we'd skim across or 49 we'd have setnets out there. 50

Page 370 1 MS. KENNER: So along the coast. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Along the coast. 4 5 MS. KENNER: With the Council's 6 permission we can add something about the migration 7 pattern. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, that would 10 be great. Thanks. 11 12 MS. KENNER: It could be a lot of that 13 information is already out there, but we're going to 14 find out. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thanks, Pippa. I 17 just want to make sure we cover all our bases. 18 19 MS. KENNER: No, thank you. I'm just 20 your scribe right now. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Charles. 23 24 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 25 Is there any sockeye on the Yukon River or is there 26 nothing over there? 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Ms. Carroll, 29 would you like to join us. 30 31 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. This is 32 Holly Carroll. We do get sockeye, but it's negligible 33 numbers. For example at Pilot Station in the test 34 fishery they might catch thousands and thousands of 35 fish in the nets and in a season they might get 20 36 sockeye. So a few of them are straying into the Yukon, 37 but it's not a main part of anyone's fishery as far as 38 what they harvest. 39 40 MR. CHARLES: Thank you. 41 42 MS. KENNER: Thank you, Holly. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Is there anything 45 you'd like to add, Mr. Gerald. 46 47 MR. MASCHMANN: Gerald Maschmann, U.S. 48 Fish and Wildlife Service. I think the main message 49 that the Federal manager wanted to get is -- you know, 50

Page 371 1 everything is important. Everything is a priority. At 2 the end of the day we only have so much money. In a 3 way, what you spend this money on or advise us to spend 4 this money on is what you think is a priority. 5 6 I wish we could fund every project, but 7 we can't. So you've got the hard job of deciding what 8 to say yes to and what to say no to. As managers we 9 have priorities that we think are most important, but 10 they're not necessarily what you might think are most 11 important. I do think a lot of it overlaps and we look 12 forward to hearing what you guys think. Any time you 13 want to hear from us we're happy to share. 14 15 Thank you. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 18 discussion. 19 20 (No comments) 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 23 I'd like to entertain a motion. 24 25 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move to 26 prioritize the information needs for the Yukon River as 27 listed. 28 29 MR. ANDREW: Second. 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 32 Oney. Thank you, Mr. Andrew. Any further discussion. 33 34 (No comments) 35 36 MR. CHARLES: Question. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 39 Charles. All those in favor say aye. 40 41 IN UNISON: Aye. 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 44 same sign. 45 46 (No opposing votes) 47 48 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 49 Motion carries. Thank you, Pippa. 50

Page 372 1 MS. KENNER: I want to thank the 2 Council and the working group for working with us. 3 It's been -- it was the first time we've used the 4 working groups on the Kuskokwim and the Yukon and we 5 look forward to making it better and better next year. 6 7 Thank you. Bye-bye. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 10 I guess we can take a 10-minute break. We really need 11 to stretch our legs here. Thank you folks. Ten-minute 12 break. Please be back here before -- well, I guess 13 before 3:30. 14 15 (Off record) 16 17 (On record) 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you folks. 20 It's 3:30 now and I'd like to continue on with our 21 agenda since we still have topic items to get to. Next 22 on the agenda is identifying issues. Oh, wait. Notice 23 of funding opportunities. Is that a double print, Eva, 24 because you have..... 25 26 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 27 The Council was just working on the priority 28 information needs. Now we're just going to provide a 29 brief update on the Partners for Fisheries Monitoring 30 Program. We don't have anything specific at this time 31 because the call has not gone out yet. The official 32 call is expected to go out later this fall. 33 34 Currently ONC and Native Village of 35 Napaimiut both have grants for their Partners for 36 Fisheries Monitoring Program which supports both their 37 biologist, Janessa and Dan, and then their student 38 intern program and the capacity for the tribes to 39 conduct their own research and monitoring program. 40 41 So those are the current Partners 42 programs that are in place and they're funded for four 43 years each. So there's a new call coming up, so it's 44 an opportunity for both of those programs to reapply 45 for that call and it's open to the public to apply as 46 well. That's for any rural organization, so a 47 nonprofit tribe, rural organization. 48 49 So no specifics at this time because 50

Page 373 1 the call hasn't gone out yet, but just a heads up that 2 that will be coming soon. I know the current 3 biologists are aware of when that's coming up as well. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 8 We're going to go to Item D, identifying issues for 9 FY2018 annual report. Eva. 10 11 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 12 Yesterday we had reviewed the Council's annual report 13 from last year and the reply from the Federal 14 Subsistence Board to the Council. Every year the 15 Council drafts a report to the Federal Subsistence 16 Board to address issues of interest and concern. On 17 Page 357 in your books you'll find a really basic 18 overview of the annual report. 19 20 This is actually a part of ANILCA so 21 the Councils were formed under Title VIII of ANILCA. 22 In addition to making recommendations on fish and 23 wildlife proposals, the Council has an opportunity to 24 bring to the Federal Subsistence Board's attention any 25 issues of concern regarding subsistence, anticipated 26 changes to subsistence, potential impacts to 27 subsistence, research on priorities as you've just 28 identified for fisheries here, but also for subsistence 29 wildlife research. 30 31 They're looking for the Board to better 32 understand the subsistence needs in the region and 33 potential changes to subsistence in the region and also 34 recommended strategies for management. So this Council 35 has tried to help the Board be aware of challenges with 36 subsistence fisheries and potential strategies for how 37 to address those challenges. Also recommendations 38 concerning policies and regulations. 39 40 The primary format is a clear request, 41 what the request is, what possible solutions may be, 42 what the Council would like from the Board in response, 43 be it research or information, action on items. As we 44 go through the meeting there's issues that the Council 45 brings up that I'm tracking also, that we know these 46 are issues of concern. 47 48 But this is the time now also for the 49 Council to identify here's an issue that we want to 50

Page 374 1 address to the Board and then I'll draft up that report 2 for you and provide it back for your review and then 3 the Council will review that report at the winter 4 meeting and approve those items on that report. 5 6 Again, things to help make the Board 7 aware of in terms of subsistence needs, subsistence way 8 of life, potential challenges, if you have strategies 9 for management or other issues relating to subsistence 10 that the Board may be able to address for you. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Andrew. 13 14 MR. ANDREW: Madame Chair. I have two 15 issues that have been coming up on and off for the last 16 few years. A couple days ago we heard from Father 17 Martin from Kwethluk complaining about the moose season 18 being too early and the weather's affecting them. It's 19 been too warm, especially in Zone 1. 20 21 I don't know how many hunters we've got 22 out there. I suspect pretty close to 2,000, including 23 the ones that come in for trophy hunts. But majority 24 are from this area. On the Kuskokwim side in Zone 1 25 our harvest limit is only 170 and we have pretty close 26 to -- oh, probably over 2,000 eligible moose hunters 27 out there. In Zone 1 they reached that limit in seven 28 days. 29 30 In other good years they always reach 31 their limit in three or four days. The majority of the 32 people that do hunt from the villages are the people 33 that don't have jobs. They have a hard time going out. 34 They have to ask around for rides of people that have 35 boats and motors to go out with. That harvest limit is 36 too small. 37 38 And the weather is not helping us. 39 It's too warm out there. When it's too warm out there, 40 the bulls move around much except when there's a chill 41 in the air or the first frost comes around. They start 42 migrating out and the bulls start moving around and 43 coming down. 44 45 The other thing was the water was too 46 high. On the low lands the moose weren't there. They 47 were moving up to higher grounds and further up the 48 hills. 49 50

Page 375 1 The other issue I have is in my area 2 right there around Unit 4 area and all the way down to 3 Napaskiak they were complaining about bears raiding 4 their fish camps. I had a brown bear raiding our fish 5 camp this summer. They broke into three smokehouses 6 right at my fish camp. And we heard the same story 7 from all the nearby villages. I think all those brown 8 bears are moving downriver to bother our camps. 9 10 That's all I got. 11 12 There's other issues, but those are my 13 two main concerns right now. 14 15 Thank you, Madame Chair. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 18 Andrew. Anyone else. 19 20 (No comments) 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I guess this 23 would be for the managers. Do you have any suggestions 24 or any concerns about items we need to take up at this 25 time that you think are concerning? 26 27 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair if I may. 28 Council is most welcome to seek input from the 29 managers. The Board specifically would like to hear 30 from the Council your observations and your knowledge, 31 any issues of concern that you're seeing in your lives 32 and your communities. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 35 36 Mr. Charles. 37 38 MR. CHARLES: I have nothing much, but 39 on our annual report I did not see what Andrew was 40 saying about the brown bear. The brown bear is all the 41 way close to the mouth of Kuskokwim. Even at 42 Tuntutuliak area. Not me, but I've heard of people 43 shooting brown bear and they wound it trying to scare 44 it away, but the people were complaining about brown 45 bear in my village. They were getting close to 46 Tuntutuliak. 47 48 I know when I was young when they have 49 food available, some place like reindeer was a lot when 50

Page 376 1 I was a kid, but wolves came in and killed some of the 2 reindeer. They were starving. Some of them were 3 starving. That's the way I learned years ago about the 4 reindeer. 5 6 The moose now is kind of abundant in 7 our area downriver. Other animals are moving in too, 8 like brown bear. We are afraid of brown bear all the 9 time, but some kids they try to scare the animals away 10 and one got hit by a kid, I think. That's what I heard 11 because they were trying to scare it away. 12 13 That's what I know in the past. The 14 reindeer was the food for the hungry wolves those 15 years. 16 17 Thank you. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 20 Charles. 21 22 Mr. Oney. 23 24 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 25 This past summer there was a couple of fish that were 26 taken from fishermen that were commercially fishing on 27 the south mouth of the Yukon and I was fortunate enough 28 to ask to get a copy of the picture that they took of 29 this fish that was deformed. I know Holly and Gerald 30 are right there where the fish come in and are gathered 31 and see the fish right there. I was wondering are you 32 beginning to see this type of fish, deformed fish, from 33 the commercial fishermen that are bringing them in. I 34 have a couple pictures here that I could show that came 35 from the Lower Yukon. 36 37 Thank you. 38 39 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. Mr. Oney, 40 I would love to see those pictures. I always like it 41 when people document pictures of weird stuff and send 42 it in. If we don't know what it is, we can send it to 43 pathology and stuff like that. We do have a test 44 fishery in the Lower River and we do catch quite a few 45 fish in that. I know we have a test fishery at Pilot 46 as well. So I do think we do see occasionally weird 47 fish. Sometimes you can get hybrids, like they call 48 them chumpies, like a pink and a chum have combines and 49 they're weird and they might even have a curvature of 50

Page 377 1 the spine that looks like an S shape. It's incorrect. 2 But we aren't seeing anything noticeable like that. We 3 aren't seeing numbers of fish that have any weird 4 deformities or anything like that at all. But I'd love 5 to see the photo if you have it. Cue it up. 6 7 MR. ONEY: Yes, I do. I have a couple 8 pictures in there. There's one that I could show you 9 here that seems like it ran into a wall and had his 10 beak kind of smashed in. There's another one here 11 where it has two mouths. 12 13 (Showing Ms. Carroll the pictures) 14 15 MS. CARROLL: Yeah, that's insane. I 16 confirm those are very weird fish. Those are really 17 weird photos. I would love to have those emailed and 18 we can send them to our lab. Those look like pretty 19 strange deformities. Nothing like I've seen before. 20 Certainly if we were seeing common things like that 21 from other fishermen, we'd hear about them on the YRDFA 22 teleconferences. 23 24 I always like to remind fishermen any 25 time you see something weird or unusual, send us a 26 photo of it and we'll try to find out what we're 27 looking at. We had some locals send us pictures of 28 some parasites they found in the gills of fish. I'm no 29 pathologist or specialist on that, but we had some 30 staff that kind of did some research and found out that 31 it was a pretty common parasite and not harmful. 32 33 So all that stuff is great and we can 34 always follow up with you. Eva or someone can get you 35 my email or I'll give you my card and then just send 36 those to me and we'll try to find out what we think 37 that is for you. 38 39 MR. ONEY: Okay. Thank you. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 42 Oney. Mr. Aloysius, any concerns. 43 44 MR. ALOYSIUS: I didn't understand your 45 question. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: A request is do 48 you have any concerns that you would like for our 49 annual report or bring to attention. 50

Page 378 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: Same old thing, beaver 2 dams, beaver dams, beaver dams. 3 4 (Laughter) 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bill. 7 8 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 9 10 INTERPRETER: I will talk in Yup'ik. 11 Put on your hearing aids or whatever you call these 12 things. With the things I learned while I was growing 13 up I will talk about those. I grew up in the Hooper 14 Bay area and I moved to Nelson Island. If you learn a 15 new language, it's a mistake. You will not learn. Us 16 people our mistake is only one. Even if you travel to 17 a different area, even if you want to learn something, 18 you will learn something different. 19 20 When we played out in Hooper Bay 21 sometimes elders would tell a story about famine. When 22 famine is going to begin, fish will start to swim where 23 they want to swim and game will start being around 24 where they don't usually roam. 25 26 When I went to the Nelson Island, I 27 heard that same story. When my paternal uncle was young 28 his grandpa told him when the caribou start to populate 29 and get lots here in Nelson Island, we will not get any 30 caribou around here. There's no trees. Pretty soon 31 they'll get one. There's caribou and moose in the 32 Nelson Island area. 33 34 We used to go to the Yukon. I used to 35 travel beyond Sleetmute when there was no caribou or 36 moose around here. I always be afraid about this 37 famine and fish and game will start to roam where they 38 don't usually belong in the area. When I grew up, fish 39 and game never roamed in habitats that they never 40 belonged to. 41 42 A person will only use that one time 43 where they were starving to death. They only use it 44 once in their life, but they don't use it again. After 45 any fish and game get abundance they'll get back to 46 little abundance. Some will travel under land and some 47 will travel underground, but that person didn't tell 48 who they were. 49 50

Page 379 1 Don't be afraid. Famine won't happen 2 while I'm alive, but he did pass away. Nowadays the 3 sky is changing. The air. I'm talking about sky, not 4 Heaven. The Big Dipper is not where it stays. Five 5 degrees it's going down. It's like a compass, but we 6 don't use it because it's going down. And the wind is 7 different from the earlier days. 8 9 Us too, people are different from the 10 earlier generations. My grandma used to say poor you 11 and you're still alive and the weather is changing. 12 You will use -- and if the people that change, you'll 13 be among them. Because the people belong to the world, 14 it will change along with the people. What we used to 15 use in our generation are all gone, but they're 16 replaced by different things. 17 18 We should care for one another and live 19 like they say in the Bible. Even though we don't know 20 who another person is we should care for one another. 21 Even our subsistence way of life is changing. 22 Everything is changing. Land and sea and air. We can 23 live together with these values we have learned. 24 25 Thank you. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 28 Bill. So I was trying to go through my notes and make 29 sure that I had what everyone was saying and make sure 30 we had it all. 31 32 First on my list would be housekeeping 33 items for Federal subsistence management regulations 34 that need to be brought to our attention in order for 35 us to be current on practices. 36 37 Second one would be support studies on 38 humpback whitefish or reproduction. Another support 39 study specifically for coho and have continuous 40 information on coho. 41 42 Your third one will be get more Yukon 43 members on this Council and that should be a priority. 44 I would love to have more Yukon people on here so that 45 Mr. Oney is not our only member here. 46 47 I also wanted to echo Mr. Bill for any 48 seal studies. He had mentioned in the last two 49 meetings that there was blood in the oil, the fat parts 50

Page 380 1 of the seal, and that the meat was soaked in blood. It 2 appeared there was major trauma to the seals. So 3 something needs to happen. 4 5 Also studies on sea creatures. That 6 they're washing up on the shore sick and dead. We need 7 information on this and act in protection and help of 8 these before it's too late. 9 10 The fifth one is education to the youth 11 about how they can report their observations and issues 12 and their concerns and what they can do about them. 13 14 Your sixth one would be predator 15 control on pike on your spawning tributaries. 16 17 Your last one will be look into the 18 moose harvest on the Yukon, that there may be too many 19 moose. They're noticing habitat destruction. People 20 who went out subsistancing on ground greens were in 21 decline possibly because of too much ammonia or too 22 much waste from moose. For instance, folks who went 23 out to get some ground greens where there used to be a 24 lot of them, but instead there was a whole bunch of 25 moose and there was barely any greens anymore. 26 27 That's all I've recorded so far. 28 29 Thanks, Eva. 30 31 MS. PATTON: Thank you. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 34 35 MR. ALOYSIUS: I just thought of 36 something. The moose population in 19A is growing and 37 growing and they're starting to settle in our village 38 some of them. And this fall moose season was very bad 39 because it rained and rained and rained. The other day 40 when I came down was the first open good weather in 10 41 days. We had no morning flights for 10 days. 42 43 It would be appropriate, I think, for 44 someone to suggest we have a November season because 45 that's when we had our second moose season in the old 46 days. There's so many cow moose up there it wouldn't 47 hurt to have a cow moose season. 48 49 That's the only thing I can think of 50

Page 381 1 right now. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Go 4 ahead, Eva. 5 6 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 7 Thank you. And I will add these moose requests to the 8 annual report, but I also want to let the Council know 9 that we will be entering into the wildlife regulatory 10 cycle and so the Council's winter meeting in March will 11 entail developing new wildlife proposals to submit. 12 13 These are among the important proposals 14 to submit if the Council wishes, so we can work on that 15 from now up until that March meeting. If the Council 16 would like to submit proposals to extend the season or 17 have a winter season, that time is coming up now on the 18 regular regulatory cycle. I will include it in your 19 annual report as well. 20 21 Thank you. 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Andrew. 24 25 MR. ANDREW: I'd like to go back to the 26 moose season. I've had people come and tell me they'd 27 like to see the moose season moved back to the middle 28 of the month or when the weather gets slightly colder. 29 When it's too warm they have all kinds of weather 30 issues; rain, too warm, high water. 31 32 There's a couple species of fish that I 33 don't think we ever do studies on and we all see them 34 coming towards the end of July. Bering cisco. They 35 come by the thousands and I've seen them migrate up to 36 Kwethluk. Right now they're in the tributary going 37 upriver to creeks that they can spawn and near the 38 foothills or even the creeks. 39 40 I've seen the same whitefish over in 41 Whitefish Lake across from Kalskag near the mouth of 42 Ophir Creek. I've seen them by the thousands other 43 than those whitefish broadheads. There's a lot of 44 certain species that they never do studies on. 45 46 We even have lamprey nobody utilizes. 47 They come in in October by our village and they migrate 48 upriver. Many years ago, it was when we used to have 49 early freeze-ups on the Kuskokwim and some people used 50

Page 382 1 to harvest them way upriver. Like in Chuathbaluk, I 2 used to hear stories up there. I don't know how far 3 up there they used to harvest them when they used to 4 have early freeze-ups. 5 6 Thank you. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 9 Andrew. Any further comments or discussion. 10 11 (No comments) 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, it sounds 14 like we're done with that one. Whenever you're ready. 15 16 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair, thank you. 17 I would like to just check with the Council on our 18 agenda here. We have this building no later than 6:00 19 o'clock tonight, so we'll need to strategize a little 20 bit so we're able to cover everyone. 21 22 The Council had -- we got a request 23 from Marshall through our Council Member Michael Peters 24 that there was an interest to address fisheries 25 proposal with a boundary change on the Board of Fish 26 side. A request for the Council to consider that and 27 make a recommendation on that as well. 28 29 Just in terms of getting a strategy 30 here for timing, we have a number of agency reports. 31 One of the important ones was the Yukon River Fisheries 32 Drainage Association. We would like to get that report 33 before your flight by 4:30. If there might be an 34 opportunity again to suspend the agenda to allow that 35 Yukon River presentation. It's a big part of the 36 Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program and their 37 engagement on the fisheries proposals on the Yukon as 38 well. 39 40 And then we have a total of five 41 presentations all together from agency reports in 42 addition to YRDFA. We have AVCP, Kuskokwim River 43 Inter-Tribal Fish Commission, Yukon River Intertribal 44 Fisheries Commission. Stephanie was going to be 45 online. We have Yukon Delta National Wildlife Refuge 46 and I believe Aaron Moses was going to provide an 47 update on his fish preservation program. Then lastly 48 David Runfola was going to be on teleconference and 49 provide some brief updates on subsistence program and 50

Page 383 1 their monitoring projects on the Kuskokwim. 2 3 At the call of the Council. 4 5 Thank you. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 8 9 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I suspend the 10 rules to hear YRDFA's presentation because of our time 11 that she needs to check into the airlines shortly. 12 13 MR. ALOYSIUS: Second. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All in favor say 16 aye. 17 18 IN UNISON: Aye. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 21 same sign. 22 23 (No opposing votes) 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Yukon 26 River Drainage Fisheries Association. 27 28 MS. STICKMAN: Good afternoon, Madame 29 Chair. Members of the Council. Thank you guys for 30 letting me present earlier than expected. First off 31 I'd like to thank you for all your hard work and I'd 32 like to thank your ancestors for taking such good care 33 of this land and just all the ancestors of this 34 territory for caretaking it for so long. 35 36 So my name is Danielle Stickman. My 37 father is Danny Stickman from Galena. My mother is 38 Karen Evanoff from Nondalton. I'm the communications 39 and outreach director for the Yukon River Drainage 40 Fisheries Association. 41 42 The first handout that you have is the 43 YRDFA ongoing projects for fall 2018-2019. The first 44 project is YRDFA in-season teleconferences. This 45 project provides a forum for the people from the Yukon 46 River to engage with fisheries managers on sharing 47 information about subsistence harvest during the 48 fishing season. This is funded by OSM Fisheries 49 Resource Monitoring Program through March 31st, 2020. 50

Page 384 1 So this season was relatively good. We 2 got high participation despite having a late season and 3 pretty good numbers. What we have learned is that this 4 is a highly-valued teleconference by fishers and 5 managers due to the complexity of fisheries management 6 in real time period of the calls. 7 8 All Yukon River fishing districts and 9 communities are invited to participate. This is 10 necessary, especially in periods of low runs and 11 conservation. It's also necessary for supporting 12 meeting subsistence harvest needs. 13 14 The second project that you see is 15 YRDFA preseason fisherman's meeting. This took place 16 at the beginning of May 2018. The purpose of this 17 project is to conduct an annual meeting of active Yukon 18 River fishers and fishery managers to build an aware 19 public continuance that is motivated to maintain and 20 protect Yukon River salmon stocks with special regard 21 for the Yukon Salmon Agreement with Canada. 22 23 This project is funded by the Yukon 24 River Panel Restoration and Enhancement Fund through 25 October 1st, 2018. The 2019 proposal was submitted and 26 we'll hear about that at the December meeting. 27 28 This meeting is necessary for 29 maintaining the working relationships and sharing of 30 information for meeting Canadian and Alaskan escapement 31 goals. This is highly valued by Yukon River fishers as 32 a primary meeting for Yukon River managers and fishers 33 to prepare for the upcoming fishing season. 34 35 All Yukon River fishing districts and 36 communities are represented at this meeting. The 37 fisheries managers especially depend on this meeting 38 due to many communities affected and the complexity of 39 the Yukon River fishery. It's a rare opportunity to 40 engage with fishers directly. There were over 100 41 fishers and fishery managers represented at this 42 meeting. 43 44 The other project I'll just summarize 45 shortly because it's a big summary there. This is to 46 build and maintain public support and meaningful 47 participation in the Yukon River salmon resource 48 management by maintaining community capacity to 49 participate by developing a mutual understanding 50

Page 385 1 between management agencies and the public. 2 3 So this project is funded by the Yukon 4 River Panel as well through June 30th, 2018. We'll 5 hear about the funding for the next cycle in the 6 December meeting. You guys have probably heard all of 7 these projects over and over the years. 8 9 So the YRDFA in-season harvest 10 interviews. This is funded by OSM, it's a Fisheries 11 Resource Monitoring Program, through March 31st, 2020. 12 I like this program. Catherine Moncrieff is in charge 13 of it. It's to provide an important communication tool 14 that qualitatively informs managers how fishers in key 15 locations throughout the drainage are doing in-season, 16 enabling managers to make timely decisions allowing the 17 maximum number of fishers to meet their subsistence 18 needs. 19 20 So we hired 10 locals in 10 21 communities. Alakanuk, Mountain Village, Marshall, 22 Russian Mission, Anvik, Huslia, Ruby, Tanana, Fort 23 Yukon and Eagle. A total of 466 interviews were 24 conducted in all of these communities in the course of 25 six weeks. 26 27 The next project was recently approved. 28 It hasn't started. The fieldwork will start this fall. 29 It's traditional knowledge of anadromous fish in the 30 Yukon Flats with a focus on the Draanjik Basin. We'll 31 have an update at the next meeting of that project and 32 you can read the purpose. This is also funded by OSM 33 Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program and it's a 34 partnership with ADF&G. 35 36 The next project is the YRDFA Education 37 Exchange. We brought six Canadians over from the Yukon 38 to participate in the Exchange. The purpose is a way 39 for people who live and use the Yukon River in the U.S. 40 and Canada to increase their understanding of their 41 neighbors' experiences and challenges relating to 42 supporting and maintaining sustainable salmon runs to 43 the spawning grounds in Canada. 44 45 We went to Emmonak and St. Mary's and 46 we spoke with both commercial and subsistence fishers 47 and the Canadians had a wonderful experience and saw 48 many things that they would not have seen otherwise if 49 they weren't part of this exchange. That project is 50

Page 386 1 funded by the Yukon River Panel Restoration and 2 Enhancement Fund. 3 4 Just a few more projects. The next one 5 is our newsletter. We have one more newsletter to 6 produce and that will come out at the end of October, 7 beginning of November. We might have a couple more on 8 hand, but it's also online. 9 10 The next project is YRDFA Education and 11 Outreach. This is funded by NFWF, National Fish and 12 Wildlife Foundation. This project ends in December 13 2018. The purpose was to continue pre-existing 14 education and outreach programs that we currently do 15 and that we have done in the past to create education 16 workshops, produce educational materials and research 17 and organize information. 18 19 There's a workshop next week that will 20 be in Galena for two days. We're bringing 12 young 21 fishers between the ages of 18 to 40 to Galena to learn 22 about Regional Advisory Councils and how they have an 23 input in the fisheries management. They're going to be 24 learning about the Salmon Agreement with Canada. 25 They're going to be learning a lot of different things 26 on how the Yukon River is managed. This is the third 27 one, so we've learned quite a bit from the younger 28 generation. 29 30 One of the main things is that they 31 would like to speak up and attend these meetings, but 32 the integration in these meetings is difficult for 33 them. So some questions that they have they wouldn't 34 want to ask during a meeting. Like what is a dipnet. 35 A lot of places along the river they might not have 36 dipnets, so a young fisher asked us separately what it 37 was. So it just opened our eyes to I guess the 38 knowledge gap between generations and how we can kind 39 of bridge that. 40 41 Then the next project is also this 42 handout, the one-pager they gave to you. This is 43 YRDFA's involvement in BLM's regional planning. The 44 purpose of this is to conduct public education and 45 outreach in key Yukon River communities and also Upper 46 Kuskokwim communities regarding BLM, Bureau of Land 47 Management, Bering Sea, Western Interior and Central 48 Yukon region's resource management planning processes. 49 50

Page 387 1 So we've been part of this for quite a 2 few years. Wayne, the director, and Suzanne Little 3 with Pew Charitable Trusts and Bob Sattler with TCC 4 have been working with communities in the Yukon and 5 Upper Kuskokwim to try to get engagement. 6 7 So the two big things that the YRDFA's 8 director really wanted me to mention was this process 9 for Bering Sea Western Interior plan has been fast- 10 tracked, so if the communities really want to get 11 involved and have a voice in the planning process, they 12 need to get involved very quickly. The draft will be 13 out hopefully in the spring 2019 by BLM. We're just 14 encouraging tribes that have not engaged with BLM and 15 if you would like support just contact us. 16 17 Right now there's not a lot of time to 18 create areas of critical environmental concern which we 19 were doing to get areas protected. There's not enough 20 time to create those, so we're request cooperating 21 agency status. So the main thing we're encouraging is 22 to just for communities to get engaged in this process. 23 24 25 The draft EIS is limited to the amount 26 of pages that they're allowed to write, so there's a 27 lot of information that might not be included in the 28 draft EIS. So there's just many things that's being 29 fast-tracked and some people are being left out of that 30 process. 31 32 I wasn't here on the first day and I 33 wasn't able to call in, but the Yukon-Kuskokwim River 34 Alliance, I don't know, Madame Chair, if you guys 35 talked about that. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I don't think we 38 got into depth on it, so continue. 39 40 MS. STICKMAN: Okay, thank you. So the 41 Yukon-Kuskokwim River Alliance, Wayne just wanted me to 42 mention that it is formed with numerous villages and 43 it's somewhat of a push-back to Donlin. The record of 44 decision has been made but there are a number of other 45 decisions to be made and communities can have a voice 46 in those decisions. 47 48 In 2012 and 2013 the YRDFA board passed 49 resolutions opposing end of concern over the Donlin 50

Page 388 1 Mine but didn't move forward with those because hadn't 2 heard much support in that motion from the region, so 3 they didn't want to move forward without permission 4 from the region. 5 6 YRDFA is interested in the alliance and 7 what's to come from it. If anybody has any questions 8 about BLM or that alliance or interest, they can 9 contact Wayne. 10 11 Thank you. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Is Duane's 14 contact information on here? 15 16 MS. STICKMAN: Yeah, Wayne. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, Wayne, not 19 Duane. 20 21 MS. STICKMAN: Yes, Madame Chair. 22 Sorry. I hope that was 15 minutes or less. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: You did good. Do 25 you have any comments, questions or discussion items 26 you guys want to take up with her. 27 28 Mr. Aloysius. 29 30 MR. ALOYSIUS: Are you familiar with 31 Native American Fish and Wildlife Society? 32 33 MS. STICKMAN: Yes. 34 35 MR. ALOYSIUS: That's a source you 36 might tap into for some funding, especially like a 37 summer youth practicum program. I used to go to 38 Colorado for nine years. They had one and only one 39 Alaskan showed up at our last symposium or whatever. 40 He had been working with his mother in Florida for her 41 to come to Denver so he could run away. The staff 42 found out about it and then they shut that camp down so 43 fast. And we haven't had a symposium since 2009. 44 45 I know they have money, so you might 46 tap into them. Any time you want to do an Alaska 47 symposium, McGrath would be an ideal location. 48 49 MS. STICKMAN: Thank you. Chin'an, Mr. 50

Page 389 1 Aloysius. Madame Chair. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have any 4 further comments or questions or discussion items. 5 6 (No comments) 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you for 9 everything that you've done. I kind of wanted to find 10 a little bit more how you guys are playing into the 11 Yukon-Kuskokwim River Alliance and I'd like to talk to 12 you personally about it later if that's okay with you. 13 What time do you have to leave? 14 15 MS. STICKMAN: I have to head to the 16 airport in about 15, 20 minutes. I'll leave my contact 17 information here too. 18 19 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. 20 21 Thank you. 22 23 MS. STICKMAN: Thank you all. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva. 26 27 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 28 At the beginning of the meeting we did get a request 29 from Mr. Parent wanting to address the Council on a 30 Board of Fish proposal. We're finally at that point 31 now. That card was submitted on Monday. For reference 32 for the Council, we do have the Board of Fish proposals 33 here, but you can bring your request to the Council. 34 35 Thank you. 36 37 MR. PARENT: Thank you, Madame Chair 38 and members of the Council. I'm not too familiar with 39 proper protocol here. This is a Board of Fisheries 40 proposal, which is State of Alaska, and it's dealing 41 with commercial fisheries on the Yukon in District 2. 42 So I'm completely out of my league here, however I did 43 read the Proposal 97 and discussed this with our 44 president and we are 100 percent against Proposal 97. 45 If you have any sway with the Board of Fisheries in 46 this particular matter, we'd appreciate your support in 47 rejecting Proposal 97 as passing. 48 49 If you'd like, I can read it for the 50

Page 390 1 record or no. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva is nodding 4 her head yes, so if you'd like, go ahead. 5 6 MR. PARENT: 5 AAC 05.200. Fishing 7 districts and subdistricts. Divide District 2 of the 8 Yukon Area into two subdistricts, as follows: 9 We believe the only solution for the 10 fish buyer to consistently buy good quality summer chum 11 salmon during the summer fishing season from District 2 12 is to divide District 2 into two subdistricts that can 13 be opened separately or combined. 14 15 5 AAC 05.200. Fishing districts and 16 subdistricts (b) District 2 consists of that portion of 17 the Yukon River drainage from the northern edge of the 18 mouth of the Anuk River upstream to an ADF&G regulatory 19 marker located at Toklik, and includes the Anuk River 20 drainage. 21 22 (1) Subdistrict 2A consists of that 23 portion of the Yukon River drainage from the northern 24 edge of the mouth of the Anuk River upstream to the 25 upriver boundary of Statistical Area 334-22. This 26 subdistrict includes Statistical Areas 334-21 and 27 334-22. 28 29 (2) Subdistrict 2B consists of that 30 portion of the Yukon River drainage that includes 31 Statistical Areas 334-23, 334-24, and 334-25. The lower 32 boundary of this subdistrict is the boundary line 33 between Statistical areas 334-22 and 334-23. The 34 upriver boundary of this subdistrict is the regulatory 35 marker located at Toklik or the upstream boundary of 36 District 2. 37 38 What is the issue you would like the 39 board to address and why? 40 41 Divide District 2 into two 42 subdistricts, 2A and 2B. 43 The Yukon River commercial fisheries consist of a 44 gauntlet type fishery from the Yukon River delta up 45 along the mainstem to the U.S./Canada border and within 46 the Tanana River. Two races of chum salmon occur in the 47 Yukon River drainage, summer chum and fall chum salmon. 48 49 50

Page 391 1 Summer chum salmon are distinguished by 2 rapid maturation in freshwater, and smaller body size. 3 Average weight is approximately 6 to 7 pounds. Summer 4 chum salmon spawn primarily in run-off streams in the 5 lower 700 miles of the drainage and in the Tanana River 6 drainage. 7 8 Although summer chum salmon are 9 harvested for subsistence throughout the Alaskan 10 portion of the Yukon River drainage, with minimal 11 harvests within District 5B, 5C, and 5D, commercial 12 fisheries have recently been confined to District 1, 2, 13 and 6, the Tanana River, and sporadically in 14 subdistrict 4A. 15 16 The District 1 and 2 commercial 17 fisheries for summer chum salmon are a flesh-based 18 fishery, with a premium price paid for silver bright 19 summer chum salmon with good flesh color and quality. 20 The summer chum salmon market for District 1 and 2 21 demands silver bright summer chum salmon with good 22 flesh quality and color. 23 24 However, because summer chum salmon 25 rapidly mature in fresh water, the color of the fish 26 along with the quality and color of the flesh 27 deteriorates rapidly as they migrate up the Yukon 28 River. 29 30 By the time these salmon migrate into 31 the upper statistical areas of District 2, starting 32 with Statistical Area 334-23, these fish become 33 obviously water marked with degraded pale color flesh 34 and poor overall quality. Processors in District 1 and 35 2 that buy summer chum salmon from fishers must 36 purchase the best quality summer chum salmon to remain 37 competitive. 38 39 However, because Yukon Area commercial 40 salmon fisheries are prosecuted on a district-wide 41 basis in the lower Yukon, it is difficult for the 42 processors to purchase only good quality summer chum 43 salmon from the entire District 2 fishery. 44 45 If nothing is changed, processors may 46 refuse to purchase any District 2 harvests that appear 47 to contain water-marked salmon or may not purchase 48 summer chum salmon harvested in District 2. 49 50

Page 392 1 We also considered not buying 2 color-marked salmon, but we believe that this would 3 lead to wanton waste and it is difficult to determine 4 the portion of fish that are water-marked in that 5 specific harvest. We also considered limiting fishers 6 to the lower portion of District 2 or by Statistical 7 Area, but this is problematic because fishers may fish 8 in one statistical area and report their catch from 9 another statistical area. We believe the only solution 10 is to divide District 2 into two subdistricts that can 11 be opened to commercial fishing by the department 12 separately or combined. 13 14 We also considered not buying 15 color-marked salmon, but we believe that this would 16 lead to wanton waste and it is difficult to determine 17 the portion of fish that are water-marked in that 18 specific harvest. We also considered limiting fishers 19 to the lower portion of District 2 or by Statistical 20 Area, but this is problematic because fishers may fish 21 in one statistical area and report their catch from 22 another statistical area. We believe the only solution 23 is to divide District 2 into two subdistricts that can 24 be opened to commercial fishing by the department 25 separately or combined. 26 27 This is very problematic on multiple 28 levels. It's proposed by Yukon Delta Fisheries 29 Development Association, which I believe is CVRF maybe 30 funded, Kwik'Pak. If I'm not mistaken, that's CVRF 31 funds right there. 32 33 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: No. 34 35 MR. PARENT: No? Okay, my bad. Thank 36 you very much for that clarification. So this is 37 Kwik'Pak asserting that they don't want to be selective 38 in their market, which they should be and they want to 39 put the burden on us, on my tribe, on the people in my 40 area. Russian Mission, Marshall and quite possibly 41 Pilot Station as well to where they're going to shut us 42 out of the market. That would impact our communities 43 greatly in an economic manner. 44 45 We here in Marshall with the Marshall 46 Traditional Council vehemently oppose this. Any type 47 of economic impact that's going to affect our community 48 is going to be met with fierce objection and we 49 wholeheartedly object to this. We hope that the Board 50

Page 393 1 considers the same objection as well with this Proposal 2 97. 3 4 Thank you. 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 7 Parent. Any questions for Mr. Parent. 8 9 Mr. Oney. 10 11 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 12 Again, I'd like to hear from those people that are 13 going to be affected. And I appreciate you being here 14 and representing Marshall as one tribe. As you know, 15 there's two tribes there and there's how many other 16 tribes that are further down the river. As Madame 17 Chair mentioned, we'd like to hear more from the tribes 18 that are going to be affected by this proposal if 19 passed. I'd like to hear from those people before I 20 make a decision on that. 21 22 Thank you. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 25 Oney. Anyone else. 26 27 (No comments) 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No one. Go 30 ahead, Mr. Oney. 31 32 MR. ONEY: If I may again. There were 33 reports from -- I don't remember if it was ADF&G, but 34 they mentioned there was two extra buyers on the Yukon 35 this summer. I think that can eliminate some of the 36 problems that YDF was trying to answer. From my 37 knowledge I know there's two. One in St. Mary's and 38 one right below. 39 40 Thank you. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I don't know if 43 this would be a question or a statement, but being a 44 previous commercial fisherman on the Yukon River all I 45 could hear was the colored fish are also known as 46 Indian fish because they go up the 47 river. That's what they call them. But I can honestly 48 tell you that, yeah, I understand the economic 49 challenge, but I don't think you guys should be kicked 50

Page 394 1 out just because of this. If I'm understanding you 2 correctly. 3 4 MR. PARENT: Exactly. That's what this 5 proposal is doing, is to divide into two subdistricts 6 where the lower district gets the first crack at any 7 type of commercial harvest. If the maturation of the 8 chum in the upper portion of District 2 becomes an 9 issue, they're going to cut that one off and that's 10 pretty much arbitrary, I think, because the chum salmon 11 that I've seen coming in the subsistence harvest is 12 pretty bright. So I don't see how this has any type of 13 merit with regards to water marking near the village of 14 Marshall in particular. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. I 17 guess I want to hear from Holly. Do you have any 18 enlightenment on this? Is it allowable that commercial 19 fishermen are allowed to do this, to say we want it to 20 be open in the lower portion and if it's good there and 21 we open up here, then we don't want your fish. 22 23 My understanding of commercial fishing 24 is that they open commercial fishing and they buy all 25 the fish that's brought to them for sale. 26 27 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair, yes. This 28 is Holly Carroll, Fish and Game, Yukon River summer 29 season manager. The way that -- well, first off I 30 would start by saying that I can kind of clarify what 31 our draft position is on this. We haven't finalized 32 our comments on it. And I can talk about the effects 33 of it on the commercial fishery. 34 35 But to answer your question directly 36 first off. The way that a commercial fishery is 37 prosecuted is that the State of Alaska manager would 38 determine that there is a harvestable surplus and would 39 open the fishery based on that alone. Then what 40 dictates where fishing will occur and for how long and 41 what time tends to be the market capacity. 42 43 Issues of quality are typically handled 44 by the buyer alone. That's not something Fish and Game 45 deals with. We also don't create fishing markets. For 46 instance, if there's a buyer in 4A, that's because a 47 buyer decided to show up and make that happen. As a 48 Department we don't make the market happen. The 49 fishermen work with buyers to do that. 50

Page 395 1 So this proposal is trying to make 2 State regulation such that it would take a district 3 that's quite large and subdivide it. What I can tell 4 you is that as a manager I already have the authority 5 to subdivide a district as needed for conservation and 6 management of orderly fisheries, so sometimes we do 7 divide subdistricts already. Or, for instance, when we 8 want to conserve king salmon, if they're coming into 9 one mouth, like the north mouth, we can limit 10 commercial fishermen to the south mouth. 11 12 So we already have the ability to 13 reduce fishing in the area of a district. So our 14 position is not to support this proposal because it 15 appears to mostly just affect a market. Similarly 16 there could be a problem. If the district was 17 subdivided, it would complicate the current way that we 18 manage the subsistence schedule. 19 20 Right now there's a subsistence 21 regulatory schedule that applies to District 2 as a 22 single district. So if this was subdivided, we would 23 need to figure out how to address the fishing schedule 24 for subsistence and disrupting their schedule doesn't 25 seem warranted at this time, not based on conservation. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Do we 28 have anything from OSM fisheries? All the way in the 29 back. You look like you're thinking very hard. Did 30 you have anything on this proposal? 31 32 MR. RISDAHL: Are you looking at me? 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 35 36 MR. RISDAHL: No, ma'am, I do not. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Eva, 39 do we have any comments or feedback on this proposal 40 from anyone? 41 42 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 43 This is a Board of Fish proposal and the request to 44 bring this before the Council was from Marshall 45 Traditional Council, so we don't receive any comments 46 since this is Board of Fish process and not our Federal 47 subsistence process. But we do honor those requests to 48 address the Council. 49 50

Page 396 1 Thank you. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, I 4 understand, but I was just seeing if anybody else had 5 made on this proposal. 6 7 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 8 The only request we received was from Marshall 9 Traditional Council and Michael Peters had relayed the 10 concerns that were expressed by the community of 11 Marshall about this proposal. 12 13 Thank you. 14 15 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. Are 16 there any public comments on this. 17 18 (No comments) 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Anybody on 21 teleconference. 22 23 (No comments) 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I would like to 26 entertain that we take a Regional Council 27 recommendation if you guys want to. 28 29 (No comments) 30 31 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All right. 32 Hearing or seeing none. We're not going to take this 33 proposal up. 34 35 Thank you, Eva. 36 37 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair. 38 Just a quick question for the Council. When the 39 Council was reviewing the Federal subsistence fisheries 40 proposals, there are a few of those Federal subsistence 41 proposals that were also submitted to the Board of 42 Fish. They're identical proposals. Most of them were 43 submitted by Alissa Rogers. 44 45 So while the Federal Subsistence 46 Regional Advisory Councils in making recommendations on 47 Federal subsistence proposals to the Board has 48 deference to the Board in terms of their consideration. 49 That same rule does not exist on the Board of Fish, but 50

Page 397 1 the Councils have the opportunity to make a 2 recommendation to the Board of Fish the same as the 3 rest of the public does and an opportunity to make 4 those comments. 5 6 There was some discussion prior to the 7 meeting about the Council potentially submitting 8 essentially the same recommendation that was made on 9 the Federal proposals that exist currently under the 10 Board of Fish proposals. That's at the wish of the 11 Council. 12 13 One way to address that if the Council 14 wanted to was to make a motion for the companion 15 proposals or identical proposals on the Board of Fish 16 to move to make a recommendation concurrent with what 17 the Council had recommended on the Federal proposal. 18 So that is an option. It was inquired about prior to 19 this RAC meeting, so I just wanted to bring that to the 20 Council's attention if you wish. 21 22 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you very 23 much, Eva. It looks like there's Proposal 87. If you 24 guys would turn to Proposal 87. This proposal was 25 brought by Tanana, Rampart, Manley and Fairbanks Fish 26 and Game Advisory Committee. It says 5 AAC 01.220. 27 Lawful gear and gear specifications. Allow subsistence 28 fishing for salmon with drift gillnets in the entire 29 Yukon River, as follows. 30 31 Does anyone have -- Holly, would you 32 enlighten us. Page 80 on the handout. 33 34 MS. CARROLL: Madame Chair. Just a 35 process clarification. It sounded like Eva had a 36 suggestion that all of the proposals that you already 37 discussed that are exactly the same as submitted to the 38 Board, she was asking if you were interested in 39 recommending your recommendations to the State Board. 40 41 But you're now turning to a couple 42 proposals that are similar or different, but would draw 43 your attention to them because they're similar enough, 44 but you may wish to bring those up after you complete 45 this task because we might need to discuss them for a 46 little bit for you to understand how they're similar or 47 how they're different. 48 49 But I am happy to answer any questions 50

Page 398 1 about any of these proposals and I can think of a few 2 to draw your attention to based on just some of the 3 discussion that already occurred. But it's a slightly 4 ask than what she's saying because this isn't one of 5 the repeated proposals. This is a totally different 6 one. So however you want to address that. I'm just 7 pointing out this is not one of your repeat ones. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Yeah. 10 Eva, let's go ahead and finish your task first. I 11 thought this was a part of it. Sorry. 12 13 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 14 This is at the wish of the Council. There's no 15 requirement to take action on Board of Fish proposals. 16 If the Council wishes on those identical proposals that 17 Council just took action on on the Federal subsistence 18 side that were also submitted to Board of Fish, if the 19 Council wishes to do that kind of a simple process to 20 make a recommendation to submit the same recommendation 21 and justification that was provided to the Federal 22 Subsistence Board to the ones that were also submitted 23 to the Board of Fish. And we would want to identify 24 those proposal numbers here so that we're clear. 25 26 Again, it's at the wish of the Council. 27 Your primary duty is making recommendations on the 28 Federal subsistence proposals, but you can also make a 29 recommendation on Board of Fish. In this case, they're 30 the same proposals. 31 32 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Eva, are we going 33 to go by them one by one? I'm kind of confused at your 34 request. 35 36 MS. PATTON: Sorry, Madame Chair. This 37 was in talking with Council members in advance of the 38 meeting where there was the same proposal on the Board 39 of Fish side as was submitted to the Federal 40 Subsistence Board. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I'm talking about 43 our process. What do you want us to do right now? 44 45 MS. PATTON: So if the Council would 46 like to make the same recommendation on that identical 47 proposal, we'll identify what those proposals are and 48 Council can request to provide the same recommendation 49 and justification that was provided on the Federal 50

Page 399 1 subsistence proposal for the identical proposal that is 2 currently before the Board of Fish. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do you need a 5 motion or what are you asking for? 6 7 MS. PATTON: Yes. So if the Council 8 would like to, and this is not required, it was just in 9 the discussion in advance of the meeting of some 10 interest in also making that same recommendation to 11 Board of Fish. 12 13 If the Council would like to, it would 14 require a motion saying Council's action on these 15 Federal subsistence proposals that are identical to the 16 Board of Fish, if the Council would like to forward 17 those same recommendations to the Board of Fish. That 18 is again not required, but because they were similar 19 there was a request if that was possible. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 22 23 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I so move 24 based on the comments by Eva. Is that good enough? 25 26 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 27 I think what would be very helpful so we're clear on 28 which proposals the Council is recommending here and 29 you'd like to forward that same recommendation on the 30 Federal subsistence side to the Board of Fish and we'd 31 combine them all together if the Council wishes. 32 33 If it's too confusing a process, we 34 don't need to go there, but the Council has already 35 deliberated at length on these proposals and made a 36 recommendation and justification, so there's not a need 37 to revisit each proposal. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 40 So at this time I would like to put on the table a 41 possible motion if you guys want. Did you make a 42 motion already? 43 44 REPORTER: Yes, he did. You need a 45 second. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. I just 48 need a second, I guess. 49 50

Page 400 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: All he did was say what 2 she recommended. He said I so move. Move what? 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I guess you need 5 to restate the motion. 6 7 MR. ONEY: I will restate the motion 8 that we submit the proposals that we took care of of 9 the Federal subsistence proposals that are identical to 10 submit to Fish and Game. 11 12 MS. KENNER: Eva, is that good enough 13 or do you want us to go down them one by one? Do you 14 need to know the numbers? 15 16 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 17 I think it would be important to clarify what numbers 18 those are. I think we're getting into an involved 19 process here and I do have some concerns that we have 20 other agency reports as well that we want to be able to 21 hear those people before we go. So if we can clarify 22 what that those proposal numbers are, that would solve 23 that. And then if we could get back to our agency 24 reports before addressing any further Board of Fish 25 proposals. 26 27 Thank you. 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 30 Thanks for that clarification. 31 32 MS. KENNER: Okay. The equivalent to 33 FP19-08 do not support. The equivalent of FP19-09 do 34 not support. The equivalent of FP19-10 support. The 35 equivalent of FP19-02 do not support. The equivalent 36 of FP19-03 and 04 do not support. The equivalent of 37 FP19-05 support. And the equivalent of FP19-07 38 support. Excuse me. The equivalent of 19-05 support 39 with modification that if a commercial -- if it was 40 announced that chinook salmon could be sold in the 41 commercial fishery, fin clipping would be required. 42 43 Crossover proposals FP19-01 support. 44 FP19-06 do not support. 45 46 That's the end of the fishery 47 proposals. 48 49 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Can I 50

Page 401 1 go ahead and have a second. 2 3 MR. ANDREW: Second the motion. 4 5 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 6 Andrew. Any further discussion. If not, call the 7 question. 8 9 (No comments) 10 11 MR. ONEY: Question. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. The 14 question has been called. All those in favor say aye. 15 16 IN UNISON: Aye. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 19 same sign. 20 21 (No opposing votes) 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 24 Thank you, Eva. 25 26 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair 27 and Council. Again, we would like to make sure that we 28 do have an opportunity to hear from all the folks that 29 have been working with the Council on the Federal 30 subsistence fisheries and wildlife if we have an 31 opportunity to hear those reports before consideration 32 of any other Board of Fish proposal. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: At this time I'd 35 invite the Council. Do you guys have any proposals that 36 you guys want to go over from Department of Fish and 37 Game. 38 39 (Council shaking heads negatively) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Everyone is 42 shaking their head. Let's go ahead and move forward. 43 At this time I'd like to move on to agency reports. 44 Because we are limited, 15 minutes or less. I know 45 there's a lot of stuff to go through. If anything we 46 can carry over to the winter meeting, that would be 47 greatly appreciated. 48 49 Tribal governments, Orutsararmiut 50

Page 402 1 Native Council. 2 3 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 4 We've head from ONC already. Native Village of 5 Napaimiut will not be participating today. We have 6 under Native organizations Association of Village 7 Council Presidents. We have Jennifer Hooper, Sara 8 Mutter and -- who's that person? Come on up. You can 9 introduce yourselves. 10 11 Thank you. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, folks. 14 15 MS. HOOPER: Thank you, Madame Chair. 16 Council members. I will be fast. So we just wanted to 17 provide sort of a summary of activities since the last 18 meeting. With me are the two additional staff people 19 within the Natural Resources Department at AVCP, Sarah 20 Mutter and John Orr. Sarah has been with AVCP just 21 over a year now and John has been on for just over 22 three weeks now. 23 24 So real quickly. Wanting to share some 25 things that have happened within AVCP itself and then 26 some activities that we've been working on. Real 27 briefly, within AVCP division structures have been put 28 into place. The Natural Resources Department now has 29 departmental support from several other programs that 30 either provide services to the same clientele, same 31 general land areas. Physically our offices have been 32 placed within our Realty and the Cultural and 33 Environmental Sciences Programs. So we'll be moving 34 forward on more ways to collaborate to provide services 35 to the region. 36 37 The regional Waterfowl Conservation 38 Committee, which is AVCP region's migratory bird 39 management body, met in early February and again in 40 late August. One of the super highlights of the year 41 is that Sarah was able to complete the AVCP Regional 42 Forest Management Plan. It received its funds from the 43 BIA, was open for public comment and was approved by 44 the BIA in June. So that plan will be on the books for 45 20 years. That will open the door for potential 46 forestry-related projects within our communities. 47 48 A lot of work we've done in the past 49 has been related to fuels, removing hazardous fuels, 50

Page 403 1 grasses and trees within communities themselves around 2 structures and homes that could be potential fire 3 hazard. 4 5 Real quickly, AVCP is involved with -- 6 I didn't see it on the agenda, but I know you've had 7 reports before in the last year from an ADAPT YK 8 resiliency workshop. That has been in the works for at 9 least six months or so. We've had a couple of steering 10 committee meetings where we wanted to bring in members 11 from the communities and different organizations to 12 sort of develop priorities that people felt would -- 13 related to climate change and resiliency. Some 14 opportunities to be able to work through those concerns 15 and the issues and to in the end develop potential 16 strategies for working on those. 17 18 There are three main tracks that have 19 been established. Focus areas include infrastructure, 20 subsistence and trails and travel. So the plan is to 21 now identify events in the next four or five months 22 where we can find opportunities to share what the 23 steering committee has put together so far for this 24 workshop. Basically getting feedback from the 25 communities on whether these make sense, if these are 26 the true priorities that we should be focusing on. 27 28 We have continued providing financial 29 support to the Kuskokwim River Intertribal Fish 30 Commission. We've worked with Bering Sea Elders Group 31 and our regional working group that focuses on a 32 partnership with the seafood industry that target 33 yellow fin sole out in the Bering Sea coast, kind of 34 the Kuskokwim Bay area. 35 36 We were able to provide a fisheries 37 technician to the Pilot Station sonar again this year 38 and the same technician has come back -- I know he's 39 pushing at least 20 years now if not beyond. It's a 40 really wonderful project that we've been able to 41 provide support for. 42 43 Sarah worked with the Coast Guard this 44 summer to bring their Arctic Guardian Seminar to 45 Bethel. That was a way to help provide information 46 related to oil spill prevention and response. 47 48 Obviously with John hired we've been 49 able to create a third position. His focus is going to 50

Page 404 1 be primarily on Bering Sea issues; fisheries, shipping, 2 response. Obviously he's going to be well cross- 3 trained with everything else the department and 4 organization is working on. 5 6 We were at the Alaska Migratory Bird 7 Co-management Council meeting a couple weeks ago where 8 the Fish and Wildlife Service and Alaska Department of 9 Fish and Game shared their formal apology letter in a 10 ceremony to subsistence hunters and they put together a 11 really nice video. 12 13 I know it was in the news a lot the 14 week following that, but we are going to be sharing the 15 video and having staff from the Service and the 16 Department come to the convention next week to share 17 the formal apology with all of the delegates. 18 19 Highlights for the next several months. 20 The AVCP annual convention is next week in Bethel. We 21 are looking to engage more at the Federal North Pacific 22 Fisheries Council level. As I mentioned with the 23 approved Forest Management Plan, Sarah is going to be 24 working with regional compact tribes on determining 25 where we can look to try and secure additional funding 26 and implement forestry projects. 27 28 As you all have been preparing the last 29 couple of days, we're going to be also working with the 30 different advisory committees and other entities within 31 the region to prepare for the Board of Fish and the 32 Federal Subsistence Board meetings in January. 33 34 Doi. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any 37 comments or questions. 38 39 MR. BILL: I have one. 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bill. 42 43 MR. BILL: I heard you say Bering Sea 44 Elders is working with some other group. 45 46 MS. HOOPER: The Chaninek Qaluyat 47 Nunivak Working Group. 48 49 MR. BILL: And who created the Bering 50

Page 405 1 Sea Elders, who made it? 2 3 MS. HOOPER: You were there with AVCP 4 and the tribes. 5 6 MR. BILL: I haven't said anything 7 about working with somebody else. I haven't said that. 8 I don't know nothing about that. 9 10 MS. HOOPER: Okay. 11 12 MR. BILL: Bering Sea Elders is not 13 working right the way it should be. They are leaving 14 something at the Kuskokwim Bay. Our eyeball was to 15 take out those nine boats in front of Kuskokwim Bay. 16 Since 2003 they have not said anything about it. We 17 have to do something. We have to work together and get 18 back to the way it should be. 19 20 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 21 Bill. Is there further discussion. 22 23 Go ahead, Mr. Oney. 24 25 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. We 26 had a representative that was sitting here on the board 27 maybe a couple years ago and he brought up an issue 28 that needs to be brought up to all the coastal villages 29 because of the corridor that's going to be opening. 30 The shipping lane that's going to be opening up up 31 north. 32 33 That's been talked about for a number 34 of years now. I don't know if you guys brought up any 35 readiness plans for villages that are situated along 36 the coast in case there's an oil spill that big. 37 Mekoryuk is right there and Nelson Island is right 38 there. I don't know if you're working with anyone to 39 address that. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 MS. HOOPER: Thank you, Mr. Oney. 44 Madame Chair. Yes, we are fully aware and we did 45 receive shared concerns from both Alakanuk and Mekoryuk 46 last year. And as part of the work with Sarah coming on 47 board and now John coming on we have more capacity and 48 more staff to be able to help and try to figure out how 49 to assist the tribes with these big, huge issues. 50

Page 406 1 Yeah, that is definitely on our radar. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 4 Oney. Do you have any further comments or questions. 5 6 (No comments) 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I guess that 9 would be for you too. Do you guys have anything you'd 10 like to add or bring to our attention that you found or 11 anything that you know of that needs to be brought up? 12 13 MS. MUTTER: I think Jennifer did a 14 pretty good job of covering what we're working on, so 15 thank you. 16 17 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Thank 18 you, Jennifer. Next on our agenda, Kuskokwim River 19 Inter-Tribal Fish Commission. Ms. Peltola. Thank you 20 for waiting patiently. 21 22 MS. PELTOLA: Thank you, Madame Chair. 23 I was really scared there for a minute we were going to 24 be here for eight more hours. 25 26 (Laughter) 27 28 MS. PELTOLA: So thank you. I'm Mary 29 Peltola. I work for the Kuskokwim River Inter-Tribal 30 Fish Commission and I was thankful yesterday for the 31 opportunity to tell you about our work. 32 33 Again, just so you understand we are 34 somewhat similar to the working group on the State 35 side, but when the Federal government has management of 36 the Federal waters of the Kuskokwim, the fish 37 commissions for in-season managers give advice to the 38 Federal government for when they believe fishing should 39 happen. 40 41 It is very structured, so our 42 organization represents the 33 tribes on the Kuskokwim 43 River. Every tribe appoints a commissioner and of all 44 the 33 commissioners four of them are chosen as in- 45 season managers. Right now they're Nick Kameroff, he 46 represents the tribes all the way to the Lower Kalskag, 47 and then James Nicori represents four villages above 48 Bethel, Robert Lekander represents Bethel, Napakiak, 49 Napaskiak and Oscarville, and then James Charles 50

Page 407 1 represents the lowest part of the river and the coast. 2 3 So these four individuals who have a 4 lot of experience on our river work with the Feds -- 5 and of course the State is part of that too because all 6 of the data that is used comes from the State of 7 Alaska, so they're in those consultations as well. 8 During the king season, the chinook season, the in- 9 season managers meet with the Refuge at least once a 10 week, sometimes twice a week. 11 12 As you remember -- well, the other 13 thing I want to say is last summer was the first summer 14 that our river had community-based harvest monitors and 15 that has been a real game changer. All the years 16 before we didn't know what the fleet was catching until 17 after, until they did their post-season harvest 18 surveys. 19 20 So Bering Sea Fisherman's Association 21 had disaster money and they worked with us and ONC has 22 been doing in-season harvest for a long time at the 23 boat harbor and to local fish camps around Bethel. 24 Then the State of Alaska Division of Subsistence also 25 has started this year with providing information from 26 tundra villages. That has been very helpful for in- 27 season management to make sure the fleet isn't going 28 out and catching everything at one time. 29 30 So not only do our four in-season 31 managers provide local knowledge or traditional 32 knowledge, but they review what Bethel test fish is 33 saying, what Aniak test fish is showing. Last year 34 they used some mark recapture data. That wasn't 35 available this year. Fish and Game has sonar that's 36 below the Y upriver, below Kwethluk. 37 38 Last year the in-season managers were 39 more conservative. There was more deference given to 40 the Western science information that was coming in. In 41 February, we went to a workshop and we learned from 42 Matt Catalano, who is with Auburn University. He 43 showed us that the fish and game forecasts are really 44 pretty accurate. There were some people who had lost 45 faith in those forecasts after 2013, but Matt Catalano 46 showed how close they really are. Even if we're not 47 seeing that data in-season, post-season they are 48 showing that it's very close. 49 50

Page 408 1 At the beginning of the season the Fish 2 Commission's escapement goal was 110,000 chinook to get 3 up to spawning grounds. There were times where we were 4 concerned and Ken mentioned this other model that was 5 introduced this summer and it's a risk assessment. 6 It's a computer model that changes every day depending 7 on what the information is that's put in, like what 8 Bethel test fish is seeing and harvest information. It 9 can help us kind of track what the best guess is for 10 escapement. 11 12 This year was the first time that I'm 13 aware of that traditional knowledge was used for 14 allowing short openings. I found this very 15 interesting. So one of the shortcomings in Western 16 science is they don't have tools or models or data 17 that's good at predicting run timing, if it's an early 18 run or a normal run or a late run, and there also isn't 19 good Western science on where we are in terms of what's 20 coming. If we're halfway through or not halfway 21 through. 22 23 The traditional knowledge that was 24 brought by James Nicori and he's the commissioner from 25 Kwethluk, and his fish camp -- many of you might know 26 where his fish camp is, it's below the Kwethluk Y. So 27 the Kuskokwak goes to the right and the Kuskokwim goes 28 to the left from his fish camp and he can see on the 29 mainstem of the river. 30 31 There's a lot of people who fish in 32 front of his fish camp. On June 22nd there was a 33 consultation and we were again looking -- you know, we 34 were very nervous people. Really wanted to harvest 35 fish, but we were very concerned about meeting 36 escapement. And James said it's my prediction that we 37 will see more kings. We will be pleasantly surprised 38 with more kings coming in. 39 40 The reason James Nicori believed that 41 is because he said his uncle told him that if you're 42 watching where people are catching and he said by July 43 22nd most of the fishermen were still catching on the 44 Kuskokwim side of the Y. The people who were fishing 45 on the Kuskokwak side were not catching. So he said he 46 believed that we were not yet at 50 percent of the run 47 because -- and it makes sense. 48 49 If those fish are swimming up the 50

Page 409 1 Kuskokwim side, that means they're going further and 2 they're smelling their tributaries on the left-hand 3 side. If they're catching to the lower tributaries on 4 the right-hand side, those fish are following the 5 Kuskokwak side. 6 7 The in-season managers recommended that 8 there be 12 hours of fishing on the 24th. That was a 9 Sunday and that was not an easy decision, but that 10 really shows that there was a high motivation to allow 11 fishing while there was good weather and then there was 12 a six-hour opening on the 29th, which was a Friday. 13 Again, balancing out wanting to make sure escapement 14 was made. That Friday six-hour was from noon to 6:00, 15 so 18 hours extra in June this year compared to last 16 year. To me this was a very big deal. The Western 17 science people they were willing to listen. 18 19 So Aaron Tiernan just came out -- the 20 State side sent out a letter to the working group 21 members today. Their preliminary estimate for the 22 total run for chinook on the Kuskokwim was 140,891 and 23 their preliminary estimate for escapement was 110,426. 24 So I think that that speaks very highly of using 25 traditional knowledge and trusting traditional 26 knowledge. 27 28 I'm very thankful to the Federal 29 managers for -- I think it was reluctantly going along 30 with the traditional knowledge and cautiously because 31 there was nothing to support it in Western science. I 32 do thank Ken Stahlnecker and Luke Coggins and the team 33 at the Refuge for going along with that. 34 35 The MOU that the Fish Commission has 36 with the Fish and Wildlife Service says the highest 37 level of deference given to that advice and they really 38 did provide the highest level of deference this summer, 39 I believe. 40 41 With that, I'd like to answer any 42 questions you might have. Bob Aloysius, Madame Chair. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Aloysius. 45 46 MR. ALOYSIUS: You said the forecast -- 47 I mean the Fish and Game said the forecast is what? 48 That's for next year? 49 50

Page 410 1 MS. PELTOLA: It was for this summer 2 2018. They predict that the total run for 2018 was 3 140,891. 4 5 MR. ALOYSIUS: That was for this 6 summer. 7 8 MS. PELTOLA: This summer, yeah. 9 10 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 11 questions or comments for her. Mr. Oney. 12 13 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 14 Good afternoon, Mary. Maybe educate me a little bit 15 about the Kuskokwim tributaries -- I mean are the 16 headwaters on the Alaska side or on Canada side? 17 18 MS. PELTOLA: We're all on the Alaska 19 side. We don't pass the border like your river does. 20 21 MR. ONEY: Do you know if there's any 22 type of studies in regards to the spawning grounds or 23 if there's any type of activity, like mining or large 24 scale operation, that might affect some of the spawning 25 grounds on the Kuskokwim? 26 27 MS. PELTOLA: Right now we don't have 28 large-scale mining. There are small-scale mines. The 29 Takotna Weir did show that -- you know, the early 30 estimates are that 2018 did not have as many chinook 31 going up to the headwaters in Takotna as they did last 32 summer in '17. If that answers your question. 33 34 MR. ONEY: I was just thinking about on 35 the Yukon side because of the funds that come from the 36 Federal government. There's restoration funds there 37 too. I was just wondering if the Kuskokwim may need to 38 be looked at as far as the spawning grounds need rehab. 39 I just wanted to bring that out. 40 41 Thank you. 42 43 MS. PELTOLA: Thank you, Mr. Oney. All 44 of our funding comes from Lisa Murkowski's office, 45 Department of Interior, Federal government. AVCP 46 receives that money for us and they don't take any 47 overhead. I'm very thankful about that. Bering Sea 48 Fisherman's Association is our fiscal agent and they 49 are helping us with internal administration. 50

Page 411 1 I don't know if Ken wants to add 2 anything to that. 3 4 (No comments) 5 6 MS. PELTOLA: Okay. Quyana. 7 8 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mary. 9 Really quick. Did Kuskokwim Inter-Tribal Fish 10 Commission have a position on Donlin for subsistence 11 knowing that our fisheries are really important? 12 13 MS. PELTOLA: We don't have an official 14 position. I know a number of the executive council 15 members have concerns, but the commission has not taken 16 a formal position. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Next 19 on our agenda Yukon River Inter-Tribal Fisheries. Eva. 20 21 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 22 I don't know if Stephanie Quinn-Davison is still on 23 teleconference. I know it's been a long meeting and a 24 long day. Stephanie had planned to be on 25 teleconference to present to the Council. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Stephanie, are 28 you available. 29 30 (No comments) 31 32 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 33 I did run into Stephanie on her way out of Bethel. 34 She's been on a busy, busy travel schedule. So she did 35 note it was a tight schedule for her this week, but she 36 had wished to speak with the Council. Perhaps at the 37 winter meeting we'll be able to follow up with her 38 updates. 39 40 Thank you. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 43 Any special actions, supplemental. Is that anything, 44 Eva? 45 46 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 47 So the Council received an update on the fishery 48 special actions and the in-season overview. The only 49 other special action to note was a recent wildlife 50

Page 412 1 special action from the Native Village of Tuluksak, 2 which was requesting two weeks earlier opportunity to 3 hunt for moose due to a catastrophic failure of their 4 power and they lost their food. The Federal 5 Subsistence Board did support that request. They had 6 about a two week early opportunity to hunt for up to 7 seven moose. They had a successful hunt. 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 10 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Yukon Delta National 11 Wildlife Refuge. Sorry for the long wait. 12 13 MR. MOSES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 14 Council members. I'm Aaron Moses, originally from 15 Toksook. I'm the fisheries biologist here at the 16 Refuge. Today I'm going to talk a little bit about 17 what the Refuge did throughout the summer. I'm going 18 to talk a little bit about moose. A majority of our 19 projects it seemed like there was a lot of bird 20 projects going on this summer and a few projects going 21 along with fisheries. 22 23 As for moose hunting, I just got the 24 numbers today for the Kuskokwim area. As of last 25 Friday in Zone 1 133 moose have been harvested and in 26 Zone 2 we got 40 moose, but there's still a couple of 27 days left and still quite a while for reporting. These 28 numbers will go up. By the winter meeting we'll have a 29 complete number for that. 30 31 As for the 2018 waterfowl program there 32 was the Emperor Goose nesting ecology and survival. 33 This is the second year that's been going on. Four 34 crew members searched for Emperor Goose nests on six 35 plots. 148 Emperor Goose nests were found and 36 monitored. Of these the average clutch size was about 37 5.3 eggs and 103 nests had at least one egg hatch. 27 38 of them got eaten by predators, 11 were abandoned and 39 seven they don't know what happened to them. 40 41 Another project that's going on this 42 year is the testing of the unmanned aerial systems on 43 disturbance of waterfowl nesting. Our waterfowl 44 biologist placed time-lapse cameras over birds and flew 45 drones over just to see how the birds reacted to them 46 so that in the future we might be able to use drones 47 instead of having people go out and disturb birds that 48 are on nests, hoping that drones might be less invasive 49 to these birds. 50

Page 413 1 Another project, the Coastal Waterfowl 2 Nest Plot Survey. This survey is in its 34th field 3 season. It's coordinated by Julian Fischer with 4 migratory bird management in Anchorage. These nest 5 surveys provide annual information on phrenology, egg 6 production, nesting effort, habitat use and predation 7 for waterfowl, cranes, loons, gulls and terns. 8 9 In 2018, the Refuge waterfowl crew 10 surveyed three waterbird nest plots on Kigigak Island. 11 That's near Newtok. Also on Kigigak Island they have 12 environmental monitoring. They're setting up data 13 loggers to monitor water levels and salinity and tidal 14 dynamics in ponds that are used by waterfowl. This 15 spring we had a big flood on Kigigak Island, which is 16 not normal, so a lot of the ponds had a lot more salt 17 in them. 18 19 Another waterfowl project that we're 20 partnered with is we're partnering with California 21 Department of Fish and Wildlife and the Oregon 22 Department of Fish and Wildlife to annually check for 23 neck-collared mounted VHF transmitters on Tule Geese. 24 These Tule Geese are subspecies of the White-front. In 25 July our waterfowl biologists conducted telemetry 26 flights and flew up to the Muddy Lakes region up on the 27 Yukon. They searched for approximately two hours in 28 the areas that most frequently used by these Tule Geese 29 and they found 14 frequencies, which means they found 30 about 14 birds, but they observed a couple hundred Tule 31 Geese. 32 33 Cackling Goose banding. The Yukon 34 Delta National Wildlife Refuge is required by the 35 Pacific Flyaway to band a minimum number of Cackling 36 Geese to effectively monitor and harvest their 37 distribution. This year was the first time we tried 38 using helicopters to see if it's a lot easier and safer 39 for not only the crew but also the birds. Over the 40 course of six days they captured 493 Cackling Geese. 41 They found that use of helicopters can be an effective 42 means to locate and capture Cackling Geese safely in 43 the future. 44 45 Another one is Kgun Lake duck banding. 46 Waterfowl banding data is used to inform the annual 47 harvest regulation-setting process for duck hunting 48 along the Pacific Flyway and Yukon Delta Refuge is one 49 site that contributes data to determine the statewide 50

Page 414 1 harvest goals. Since 1990 Yukon Delta has banded ducks 2 on Kgun Lake. 3 4 Right now we're in the process of 5 looking at other areas where it would be more 6 productive because we have banding goals of about 1,000 7 Mallards and 1,000 Northern Pintail. In the past, I 8 don't even remember how long it's been, we haven't even 9 been getting close to that goal. So we're looking for 10 new areas where there's big concentrations of ducks 11 right after they're molting and right when they're just 12 about to fly. 13 14 That's the waterfowl side. Fisheries, 15 we had Gary Decossas from OSM here for a little while. 16 He's helping out on a study to determine harvest on 17 non-salmon tributaries. We had Ben Staton here all 18 summer. A lot of you guys know Ben. He was helping 19 out with all the in-season management. He was our 20 numbers cruncher. He's just an all-around numbers guy 21 for us. It was really good to have him here. 22 23 A couple of my projects. I had a water 24 monitoring up here on Bethel Bluffs getting water 25 temperature, water oxygen, water level for the whole 26 summer. I'll have a report out sometime this winter on 27 that and it's going to be continuing on. 28 29 Lastly, a project that I'm a part of 30 along with ONC is fish preservation. This summer we 31 were tackling the aspects of bugs and birds on people's 32 drying racks. I had a brochure, but I think they're 33 all at AVCP. If you guys want one, I could give it to 34 you. This year we bought bug netting to put around 35 people's drying racks to see if that helps getting the 36 bugs out, keeps the bugs out of the drying racks. 37 38 This year we helped about 130 families 39 and early reports suggest that was very beneficial to 40 people and they didn't lose as many fish as they 41 normally did in the past. Us and ONC, hopefully we're 42 trying to gather other partners. We're going to 43 continue this in the future and we're going to try and 44 get input from people throughout the delta trying to 45 figure out ways we could best help each other in 46 learning how to dry fish. 47 48 Up on the Yukon, up in McGrath, up on 49 the coast, people dry fish slightly differently, but 50

Page 415 1 that's information that maybe can be helpful to other 2 regions and so we're going to try and document that and 3 make everybody more successful in drying their fish. 4 5 That's all I got. 6 7 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Aaron. 8 Do we have any comments. 9 10 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 11 12 INTERPRETER: Do you go to Nelson 13 Island? 14 15 MR. MOSES: For what? 16 17 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 18 19 INTERPRETER: To check on the rivers 20 and sloughs. 21 22 MR. MOSES: Right now we don't have -- 23 we don't, no. 24 25 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 26 27 INTERPRETER: Maybe this time of year 28 it's not a good time. The last time we went..... 29 30 MR. BILL: .....I stumbled on the hike. 31 There was more water than it is now. 32 33 MR. MOSES: When they're looking for 34 ducks, they were flying up in the -- what is it, 35 Kagaluk Lake. So that's one area that they're thinking 36 that -- because there's lot of birds there. Maybe in 37 the future. We'll try and check it next year and see 38 if there's still a lot of ducks there. 39 40 MR. BILL: (In Yup'ik) 41 42 INTERPRETER: Too much water this year. 43 44 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 45 Bill. Just to give people a head's up. Talking about 46 keeping bugs out, there's a hornet flying around. So 47 if you see it, swat it. 48 49 (Laughter) 50

Page 416 1 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead, Mr. 2 Aloysius. 3 4 MR. ALOYSIUS: You said something about 5 you put something in smokehouses to keep flies away? 6 7 MR. MOSES: We also had some people put 8 it in the doors of their smokehouse. They put the bug 9 netting that they also put around their drying racks. 10 They also put it in front of the smokehouse door. It's 11 helped keep at least the birds out. 12 13 MR. ALOYSIUS: What's the makeup of 14 that -- what kind of..... 15 16 MR. MOSES: It's a PVC net meshing, but 17 it's really light and it's really strong. PVC, like 18 the PVC pipes, but it's..... 19 20 MR. ALOYSIUS: Is it hollow or..... 21 22 MR. MOSES: No. It's just bug netting. 23 It's like a window screen but it has a lot better air 24 flow. We put it around the whole drying rack and it 25 keeps the bugs out. 26 27 MR. ALOYSIUS: I thought you said 28 something about an ingredient that sprays out. 29 30 MR. MOSES: Oh, that one. That's what 31 we learned from a group of elders down in Dillingham is 32 they use clove oil and they mix it with warm water or 33 something else. Some people use like rubbing alcohol 34 because it mixes better for some reason and then they 35 wipe it in areas that they know the bugs always go in. 36 What they said is that once they wipe it up in areas 37 that the bugs don't like to go in those areas no more. 38 39 MR. ALOYSIUS: There's too much crap 40 out there. People can spray on this and they can eat 41 it, rub on it and get on their body. I wouldn't even 42 touch that. 43 44 MR. MOSES: This netting is completely 45 safe. I did a whole bunch of research during the 46 winter. Other uses for this netting is they put it 47 over the vegetables down in the Lower 48. It comes in 48 really long, like 7 x 100 foot lengths, and they drape 49 them over their vegetables to keep bugs out, but it's 50

Page 417 1 also strong enough to prevent damage from hail. It's 2 called hail and bug netting. 3 4 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Bob, it kind of 5 looks like mosquito netting if you've seen it. 6 7 MR. ALOYSIUS: It's not a spray? 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: No. 10 11 MR. MOSES: Bob, I'll send you a sample 12 of it. 13 14 (Laughter) 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Aaron. 17 Do you have any further questions. 18 19 Mr. Oney. 20 21 MR. ONEY: Thank you, Madame Chair. 22 Thank you, Aaron, for your presentation. Last year I 23 think was the first time that the Feds were allowing 24 people to hunt Emperor Goose and the only way you could 25 catch them is by getting a permit. I want to know how 26 many permits were issued, maybe how many Emperor Goose 27 were caught. 28 29 Thank you. 30 31 MR. MOSES: I don't have a number for 32 that. I'd have to ask my waterfowl guy, but I could 33 get that information to you when I get it. 34 35 MR. ONEY: Thank you. 36 37 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: That would be 38 nice to have on our winter report. 39 40 MS. PATTON: Okay. 41 42 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any 43 further questions for Aaron. 44 45 MR. ONEY: I have one more. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, yeah. Go 48 ahead, Mr. Oney. 49 50

Page 418 1 MR. ONEY: I know we brought up 2 counting of moose in our last winter meeting and I 3 don't know if it's been done on the Yukon. 4 5 MR. MOSES: Oh, yeah. The Fish and 6 Game big game biologist was going to present on that. 7 All I can say is we counted less moose than in the 8 past, but there's different factors. Like there was no 9 snow, so it was really hard to count them. But winter 10 meeting definitely I'll be able to get you guys numbers 11 on that. 12 13 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 14 questions. 15 16 (No comments) 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Aaron. 19 Good job. All right. Moving down our list. 20 21 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 22 We had Togiak National Wildlife Refuge first thing this 23 morning. Next up on our list was ADF&G Subsistence 24 Division. David Runfola was hoping to call in. I'm 25 not sure if he's still on the line. 26 27 MR. RUNFOLA: Yes, Madame Chair, I'm on 28 the line. 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 31 Runfola, for waiting patiently. 32 33 MR. RUNFOLA: You're welcome. I just 34 want to give a brief update to the Council on work that 35 the Subsistence Division at Fish and Game has been 36 conducting on some OSM projects and also say a little 37 something about some outreach and other things we've 38 been doing this summer. 39 40 There were three OSM projects that I 41 can tell you about. One is completed. It was a two- 42 year survey and ethnography project in the Lower Yukon 43 River communities of Marshall, Pilot Station, Mountain 44 Village, Kotlik, Alakanuk and Nunam Iqua where we 45 focused on asking people about harvest and use of non- 46 salmon fish. For example whitefish and pike and burbot 47 and lamprey. 48 49 That project has wrapped up and we 50

Page 419 1 published a final report for that in June. That report 2 has also been provided for OSM and the RAC members can 3 certainly get a copy from OSM. Mr. Oney may have 4 received one through the Alakanuk Tribal Council. 5 6 Another OSM project that actually just 7 finished up its last season of research was the Middle 8 Kuskokwim In-season Harvest and Effort Study. We spent 9 time in the communities of Kalskag, Aniak, Chuathbaluk, 10 Crooked Creek, Red Devil and Sleetmute and Stony River. 11 We contacted people during the fishing season to 12 monitor their progress in salmon fishing and to talk to 13 them about how they were doing as far as getting the 14 salmon that their households needed. 15 16 This summer we completed 240 household 17 surveys out of about 430 households in the region that 18 we were studying. We contacted hundreds of people. 19 Not just about the surveys, but also answering 20 questions, providing information and getting local 21 fishermen and their family members in contact with 22 people who could help them if we couldn't help them. 23 If they had questions, we would try to answer them or 24 pass the question along. 25 26 That information was reported to the 27 working group and the Kuskokwim River Inter-Tribal 28 Fisheries Commission and shared with the agency 29 managers at Fish and Wildlife Service and Fish and 30 Game. Some of that information that we got from 31 Kalskag and Aniak about fishing was given to the Fish 32 and Wildlife Service for use in their harvest 33 estimations right after each subsistence fishing 34 opening. So it was directly supporting that 35 information to learn more about how many fish people 36 were catching to try to get accurate estimates in the 37 middle of the season. 38 39 Finally, the last OSM project that I 40 can tell you about is one that also finished its 41 research. We conducted another survey, an ethnography 42 project, in some coastal communities on the Y-K Delta 43 to learn more about harvest and use of non-salmon fish 44 in the coastal communities of Quinhagak, Kipnuk, 45 Nightmute, Mekoryuk and Scammon Bay. We conducted 46 surveys last winter. 47 48 We also have done a lot of interviews 49 with experienced fishermen and people who know a lot 50

Page 420 1 about fish. That information is being analyzed right 2 now and we're going to write a report and we'll provide 3 that for OSM. We'll also maintain contact with the 4 communities where we worked and give them information 5 this winter. We'll travel out there and we'll talk to 6 the communities about the results of our project. That 7 report should be done by June 30th of 2019. 8 9 Those are the three OSM projects that I 10 wanted to talk to you about that came from funding from 11 the Fisheries Resource Monitoring Program with the 12 support of the RACs over the last few years. I can 13 pause here in case the Council members have any 14 questions about those three projects. 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Go ahead and 17 proceed. I just want to remind you that we are on a 18 time limit 19 20 MR. RUNFOLA: Okay, that's fine. Just 21 one more minute. I wanted to let you know that Mary 22 Peltola mentioned that we collaborated with the Fish 23 Commission and the Fish and Wildlife Service this year 24 in the Lower River. 25 26 We had another project that I've talked 27 to the RAC about several times that we finished up this 28 summer. It was funded by the Alaska Sustainable Salmon 29 Fund. That information that we got from that project 30 was in-season harvest information that also helped with 31 the in-season estimates that came out each time there 32 was a fishing opening. 33 34 Finally, I just want to mention because 35 this RAC represents the community members of Kalskag we 36 did have a king salmon fishing permit opportunity this 37 summer that was open for fishing above the mouth of the 38 Aniak River in State waters. I just want to mention we 39 don't have any information from that. However, we 40 expect to have that in October and by the spring we'll 41 be able to provide the RAC with more information how 42 the king salmon fishing permit went. 43 44 That's all I have. Oh, I'm sorry, one 45 last thing. We are in the field right now getting our 46 post-season household salmon surveys done and that's a 47 big project that everybody is familiar with that we do 48 every year. Up until last year it was operated by -- 49 well, for about 10 years or so it was operated by 50

Page 421 1 Commercial Fisheries Division and now the Subsistence 2 Division is operating that project, partly funded by 3 Office of Subsistence Management. So our folks might 4 be talking to you when you get home if you live in the 5 Kuskokwim area. 6 7 Thank you, Madame Chair. 8 9 That's all I have. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Dave. 12 Questions, comments. 13 14 Mr. Oney. 15 16 MR. ONEY: Good to hear you, Dave. Ray 17 Oney here. Just to let you know that I don't work for 18 the tribe. It's been almost a 19 year since I have worked for the tribe. It would be 20 interesting to see that report. 21 22 Thank you. 23 24 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Any further 25 questions. 26 27 (No comments) 28 29 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 30 Thank you, Mr. Runfola. 31 32 MR. RUNFOLA: Thank you. 33 34 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Do we have 35 additional ADF&G reports? 36 37 (No comments) 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: People shaking 40 their heads. All right. Ms. Pippa, take it away. 41 42 MS. KENNER: That was a really 43 interesting report. Thank you, Dave. Would love to 44 talk to you about that a little bit more later on. So 45 I'm up here to give you the OSM report and I'm 46 going to do it quickly. We have a staffing update. 47 Gene Peltola, Jr. has left his position as the 48 Assistant Regional Director to become the new Regional 49 Director of the Bureau of Indian Affairs in Alaska. 50

Page 422 1 In that role he will also serve as a 2 member of the Federal Subsistence Board. No official 3 action has been taken as of yet to commence recruitment 4 for a replacement, but in the meantime Tom Doolittle 5 has assumed the role of the acting Area Regional 6 Director. He was the Deputy Area Regional Director. 7 8 New arrivals. Greg Risdahl, who is at 9 our meeting today and has been helping out, has started 10 as the new Fisheries Division Supervisor at OSM. He 11 received his BS degree in wildlife biology with a minor 12 in anthropology from the University of Montana and an 13 MS from Montana State University in fish and wildlife 14 management. Greg previously worked for OSM as a 15 wildlife biologist. He has served as the Deputy Refuge 16 Manager at Tetlin National Wildlife Refuge and most 17 recently as the Izembek National Wildlife Refuge 18 Manager. Over his career he has worked in both 19 wildlife and fisheries management, so we welcome Greg. 20 A wonderful addition. 21 22 Vacancies. The following is a summary 23 of vacant positions and the status in hiring personnel 24 to fill these positions. The Anthropology Division 25 Supervisor, we have the paperwork in seeking approval 26 to hire that position for a staff anthropologist. The 27 paperwork is in and has been approved for a fisheries 28 biologist. The position is in the process of being 29 filled. We have an open admin assistant position that 30 we have not received approval to fill. 31 32 Now I'm going to talk about a very 33 important thing that happened with our wildlife 34 regulations this year. So the wildlife regulations for 35 the 2018-2020 regulatory cycle. The wildlife 36 regulatory year began on July 1st, 2018 but the changes 37 to the regulations based on the Federal Subsistence 38 Board's action in April have not yet been published in 39 the Federal Register, so these changes are therefore 40 not in effect until that publication. 41 42 This has two specific consequences for 43 the program. First, the modifications to regulations 44 made in the April board meeting did not take effect on 45 July 1st as intended and will not take effect until the 46 Federal Register notice is published. For example, the 47 new definition of bear bait adopted in Wildlife 48 Proposal 18-51 does not yet exist or several C&T's like 49 in Southeast for deer that aren't in effect. 50

Page 423 1 In order to make up for this the 2 Federal Subsistence Board issued several special 3 actions to effectuate regulations that otherwise hadn't 4 been put into regulation, but none of those apply to 5 this area. It's mainly up north and in Southeast. 6 7 That's the end of my presentation. 8 9 Thank you very much, Madame Chair. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Pippa. 12 Any questions for Pippa. 13 14 (No comments) 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Good job, Pippa. 17 Thank you, Eva. 18 19 MS. PATTON: Madame Chair and Council. 20 I just have one brief update for the Federal 21 Subsistence Management Program. On the Council 22 membership. So we did receive many applications from 23 throughout the Y-K Delta in this last round of 24 appointments to the Council. 25 26 The Federal Subsistence Board met this 27 summer and referred those recommendations to the 28 Secretary of the Interior. It's a very long process. 29 It takes almost a year from application to appointment 30 notice. As Alissa knows having just gone through that 31 recently. 32 33 Generally the Secretary's Office will 34 send out those appointment notices. They make the 35 final appointment, so we're waiting on that. They 36 usually are due out before the end of December. They 37 have been delayed in some cases by a month or two, but 38 we're anticipating to hear back on new Council member 39 appointments hopefully before the end of December so we 40 would have new Council members seated for the winter 41 2019 meeting. 42 43 We do have the new application cycle 44 beginning now and then for Council members whose 45 positions are expiring would reapply if interested to 46 continue to serve on the Council. I'm grateful that 47 James Charles' elders reappointed him again -- 48 nominated him again. 49 50

Page 424 1 So we'll make sure that these copies 2 are here. I know the refuge information technicians 3 were extremely helpful this past year and I think 4 that's what helped us get more applicants was to reach 5 out to communities throughout the region and let people 6 know what the Federal Subsistence Management Program is 7 about and encourage those applications. 8 9 So thank you. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Eva. 12 Any further OSM. 13 14 (No comments) 15 16 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Don't see any 17 heads bobbing. All right. Let's go on to our future 18 meeting dates. We want to confirm with everybody that 19 we're still okay for the future meeting date. March 20 12th through the 14th was selected as a future meeting 21 date for the 2019 winter Regional Advisory Council. I 22 just wanted to make sure with you guys that we're still 23 good to go with that date and then possibly suggest a 24 fall meeting date. That's Page 365. 25 26 Are you good for that date? 27 28 MR. CHARLES: (Nods affirmatively). 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Go ahead, 31 Mr. Aloysius. 32 33 MR. ALOYSIUS: I move that we select 34 March 13 and 14, 2019 as the winter Regional Advisory 35 Council meeting. 36 37 MR. CHARLES: Second the motion. 38 39 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So there 40 was a correction of 12 and 13. Seconded by Mr. 41 Charles. All those in favor say aye. 42 43 IN UNISON: Aye. 44 45 MR. ALOYSIUS: What? 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Say aye if you 48 agree. 49 50

Page 425 1 MR. ALOYSIUS: Aye. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 4 5 MS. PATTON: Thank you, Madame Chair 6 and Council. For the fall 2019 meeting you'll find the 7 calendar on the meeting cycle on Page 366. Currently 8 you'll see it's wide open. The North Slope Council met 9 very early prior to fall whaling this year. They 10 selected October 22nd and 23rd. We put AFN on there. 11 I might just make a suggestion. There was quite a bit 12 of feedback on the date for this meeting when the fall 13 moose hunt was occurring. So a consideration to start 14 the meeting after the fall moose hunt in this area. 15 16 Thank you. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bill. 19 20 MR. BILL: Last year the meeting I 21 didn't like it because the Bering Sea group had their 22 meeting and we had our meeting at the same time. Let's 23 try to stay off of one another. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 26 Bill. For all meeting purposes I suggest that we take 27 up possibly November 5th and 6th and that way we can 28 accommodate. Once you find out more information, Eva, 29 about possible meetings, that way we're not clashing. 30 Just to set a date and leave the whole entire board 31 open for us, then at our winter meeting you can confirm 32 with us the possible dates would be. A suggested 33 option at least for time management right now. 34 35 MS. PATTON: Sure. Madame Chair and 36 Council. That would be good. We can set a tentative 37 date and the Council can reconfirm. One of the 38 challenges is the calendar does get filled up with 39 other RACs once they start to schedule. We can only 40 conduct two RAC meetings per week, so we might lose 41 some of the Council's options. So if you'd like to 42 select a date that you think would work good and then 43 we'll reconfirm at that November meeting. 44 45 MR. BILL: Madame Chair. 46 47 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bill. 48 49 MR. BILL: Let's stay away from October 50

Page 426 1 25 and 26. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 4 Bill. I had suggested maybe November 5th and 6th if 5 that works for everybody else. 6 7 (Council nods affirmatively) 8 9 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Can I get a 10 motion on the floor for November 5th and 6th. Mr. 11 Oney. 12 13 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair. I move that 14 we have our fall meeting November 5 and 6. 15 16 MR. CHARLES: I second the motion. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Further 19 discussion. 20 21 MR. ALOYSIUS: What did he say? 22 23 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: He seconded. 24 25 MR. ALOYSIUS: Oh, I thought you were 26 looking for a second. 27 28 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Further 29 discussion. 30 31 MR. CHARLES: Question. 32 33 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: The question has 34 been called. All in favor say aye. 35 36 IN UNISON: Aye. 37 38 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: All those opposed 39 same sign. 40 41 (No opposing votes) 42 43 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Hearing none. 44 Motion passes. Pippa. 45 46 MS. KENNER: Madame Chair. I 47 apologize. I thought you were done. So on behalf of 48 Staff and everybody who attended your meeting I just 49 want to tell you you are awesome Council members and 50

Page 427 1 wonderful volunteers. We really appreciate the time 2 you put into this. So I'd like a round of applause. 3 4 (Applause) 5 6 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you all 7 too. You guys are amazing for putting all this 8 together. 9 10 MS. PATTON: Thank you. 11 12 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I understand from 13 your previous coordinator for the State I understand 14 how crazy these meetings are. Thank you for all your 15 work and thank you for all the time you put into this 16 and thank you for being here and with us these 17 following days. Thank you, Eva, for putting this 18 together. You've done an amazing job with this and 19 being patient with us and trying to keep us on track. 20 So thank you so much. 21 22 MS. PATTON: Thank you to our expert 23 Chair as well. Thank you and the Council. 24 25 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you to our 26 translators. You guys did an amazing job. 27 28 (Applause) 29 30 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you to our 31 transcriber for being with us for many years and 32 hopefully more in the future. We'll start with Mr. 33 John Andrews for closing comments. 34 35 MR. ANDREW: Thank you, Madame Chair. 36 First of all I always thank our Madame Chair, Council 37 members, transcribers, our staff, Fish and Game and all 38 those people that attend the meeting. They always make 39 it possible for us to do our work here even though I'm 40 intentionally never in full agreement with them. It's 41 pretty interesting to hear the debates too. 42 43 Thank you, Madame Chair. 44 45 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 46 Andrew. 47 48 Mr. Charles. 49 50

Page 428 1 MR. CHARLES: Thank you, Madame Chair. 2 I thank everybody who came to this meeting and help us 3 make the meeting smooth. We thank you all for being 4 here. Like I said I nominated somebody else to be here 5 from my village or from my area. I don't know where it 6 would be, but this may be my last one. But if somebody 7 nominates me, I'll be there, but we never know. 8 9 Thank you. 10 11 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 12 Charles. 13 14 Mr. Oney. 15 16 MR. ONEY: No comments. 17 18 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 19 Oney. 20 21 Mr. Aloysius. 22 23 MR. ALOYSIUS: Just a couple of things. 24 One is the meandering through the meeting it's not good 25 because it takes the attention away from here to 26 somebody walking around. 27 28 The other thing is interference. Like 29 if you're talking, I'm listening and somebody taps me I 30 lose what you're saying. 31 32 Be careful of those two things. 33 34 Thank you. 35 36 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: I apologize for 37 that, Mr. Aloysius. 38 39 (Laughter) 40 41 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bill. 42 43 MR. BILL: I thank the people that came 44 to the meeting. This is about the first time we had a 45 good meeting. It was understandable everything that 46 you guys talked about. It seems to me it's better than 47 before and I thank all of you guys. Fish and Game, 48 Fish and Wildlife, the Staff and everybody. You, the 49 Council and Madame Chairman. 50

Page 429 1 Thank you. 2 3 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 4 Bill. I want to thank all of you for being here. You 5 Council members mean a lot to me and your advice, 6 wisdom and guidance are one of the most important 7 things to me too to make the decisions I have to make. 8 9 All right, folks. Going back to our 10 agenda. The last thing on the list. We may have been 11 like a couple minutes late, but we made the 6:00 12 o'clock deadline. 13 14 Can I get a motion to adjourn, please. 15 16 MR. ONEY: Madame Chair, I move to 17 adjourn the meeting. 18 19 MR. CHARLES: Second. 20 21 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, Mr. 22 Oney. Thank you, Mr. Charles. All those in favor say 23 aye. 24 25 IN UNISON: Aye. 26 27 MADAME CHAIR ROGERS: Quyana. 28 29 (Off record) 30 31 (END OF PROCEEDINGS) 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50

1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ) 4 )ss. 5 STATE OF ALASKA ) 6 7 I, Salena A. Hile, Notary Public in and for the 8 state of Alaska and reporter for Computer Matrix Court 9 Reporters, LLC, do hereby certify: 10 11 THAT the foregoing pages numbered through 12 contain a full, true and correct Transcript of the 13 YUKON KUSKOKWIM DELTA FEDERAL SUBSISTENCE REGIONAL 14 ADVISORY COUNCIL MEETING, VOLUME III taken 15 electronically on the 28th day of September at Bethel, 16 Alaska; 17 18 THAT the transcript is a true and 19 correct transcript requested to be transcribed and 20 thereafter transcribed by under my direction and 21 reduced to print to the best of our knowledge and 22 ability; 23 24 THAT I am not an employee, attorney, or 25 party interested in any way in this action. 26 27 DATED at Anchorage, Alaska, this 7th 28 day of October 2018. 29 30 31 32 Salena A. Hile 33 Notary Public, State of Alaska 34 My Commission Expires: 09/16/22 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50

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