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Adam Kuper Entrevista Isaac Schapera MANA 7(1):133-163, 2001 ENTREVISTA O PRESENTE ETNOGRÁFICO: ADAM KUPER ENTREVISTA ISAAC SCHAPERA pera concordaria com uma entrevista filmada. O texto a seguir baseia-se na entrevista que realizei com Schapera em minha casa, em Londres, no dia 15 de abril de 1998, e que foi filmada por Rolf Husmann. Schapera falou com fluência e entusiasmo por quase duas horas, revivendo suas histórias e res- pondendo com franqueza às minhas perguntas. Editei uma transcrição da entrevista para um livro de fotografias etnográficas tiradas por Schapera na década de 30, que ainda está em pre- paração1. O texto que se lerá aqui in- clui alguns comentários adicionais de Schapera. Isaac Schapera nasceu no ano de 1905, em Garies, uma pequena cidade de Isaac Schapera Northern Cape (África do Sul), região semidesértica de língua africâner, co- nhecida por abrigar uma grande popu- Conheci Isaac Schapera em 1963, quan- lação hotentote. Quando jovem estu- dome preparava para realizar trabalho dante, mudou-se para a Cidade do Ca- de campo no Protetorado de Bechuana- bo, prosseguindo os estudos na univer- land (hoje Botsuana). Somos amigos sidade local, sob a orientação de A. R. desde essa época e, até hoje, com seus Radcliffe-Brown. Em 1925 iniciou a pós- 90 anos, Schapera visita minha casa e graduação na London School of Econo- almoça conosco duas vezes por mês. Já mics, onde Malinowski era a figura do- se vão quarenta anos de conversa e eu minante em antropologia. Obteve o sempre pensei em fazer uma entrevista grau de Ph.D. com uma pesquisa biblio- formal, visando preservar algumas de gráfica sobre a história, as línguas e a suas melhores histórias e mostrar algo cultura das populações hotentote e bos- de sua personalidade aos colegas que químana. Em 1929 retornou à África do não tiveram a chance de conhecê-lo. Sul como professor [lecturer] de antro- No entanto, o impulso específico para pologia social, dando início à sua exten- realizar essa entrevista veio de um pe- sa pesquisa etnográfica entre os povos dido do antropólogo e cineasta Rolf Tswana do Protetorado de Bechuana- Husmann, que me perguntou se Scha- land. Os diversos trabalhos que publi- 134 ENTREVISTA cou sobre os Tswana representam, tal- Tal civilização já está em desenvolvi- vez, a mais completa e, certamente, a mento – civilização em que, no momen- mais bem acabada etnografia feita indi- to, os europeus ocupam a posição de vidualmente na África. Schapera tam- aristocracia privilegiada e orgulhosa de bém deu contribuições ao estudo da li- sua própria raça, enquanto os nativos, teratura e da história Tswana, e aos es- embora indispensáveis do ponto de vis- tudos comparativos sobre os povos da ta econômico, estão restritos a um papel África do Sul em geral. Em 1950, dei- subordinado, de onde poucos podem xou a África do Sul para assumir uma emergir com sucesso. Mas, apesar dis- cátedra na London School of Economics so, os Bantu vêm penetrando cada vez e a partir daí publicou diversos ensaios mais em uma vida cultural comum a to- históricos e teóricos. Não tendo jamais da África do Sul.” (:386-387) se casado, viveu só, sempre em um pe- queno apartamento alugado no centro Kuper da cidade. Solitário, sujeito à depres- Pelo que consta, você dava um curso re- são, asceta, Schapera devotou sua vida gular na LSE, que ficou muito famoso, ao trabalho. em que teria dito “O que o antropólogo Isaac Schapera costumava descrever-se vê realmente quando vai a campo? Ele como etnógrafo, e tendia a desdenhar a vê escolas, vê igrejas, vê lojas, mas tudo teoria antropológica. No entanto, con- isso fica fora das etnografias”. Este co- tribuiu para o desenvolvimento de uma mentário foi a pretexto de uma crítica notável escola de etnografia na África das etnografias funcionalistas clássicas, do Sul, que insistia em considerar qual- correto? quer grupo étnico dentro do contexto mais amplo de uma sociedade sul-afri- Schapera cana única e em transformação. Esta Os funcionalistas, Malinowski e outros, perspectiva foi sintetizada por Schape- diziam: “Você deve estudar os povos ra no livro que editou em 1934, sob o tí- como eles são hoje”. Então, eu fui para tulo Western Civilization and the Nati- Mochudi [Botsuana] e o que encontrei ves of South Africa: Studies in Culture foi uma igreja, as pessoas vestidas à Contact: moda dos brancos, falando inglês etc. “Sobre os Bantu, como um todo, pode- Para falar deles como eles eram, tinha se dizer que eles foram hoje definitiva- que se falar da igreja e de todo o resto. mente atraídos para dentro da órbita da Eu creio que aí estava a diferença entre civilização ocidental. Eles não adotam, o meu tipo de etnografia e a de Mali- e é provável que nunca venham a ado- nowski nas Ilhas Trobriand. Esse tipo tar, essa civilização em suas manifesta- de material nunca entrou nos seus li- ções puramente européias. É mais pro- vros. Alguma vez ele disse que lá havia vável que, pelo menos em alguns as- brancos, missionários, comissários dis- pectos, eles venham a desenvolver suas tritais etc.? Nunca. Só o fez muito mais próprias variações locais. Mas essas va- tarde… quando foi mesmo? Como se riações ocorrerão dentro do quadro chama aquele livro dele? mais amplo de uma civilização sul-afri- cana comum, compartilhada por negros Kuper e brancos, e apresentando certas pecu- Coral Gardens(Malinowski 1935), em liaridades que terão por base, justa- que há um famoso epílogo… mente, essa justaposição de culturas. O PRESENTE ETNOGRÁFICO 135 Schapera seu trabalho com os Tswana é que al- Onde ele observa que havia uma mis- guns dos principais estudos que escre- são que esquecera de mencionar… Ora, veu foram realizados por incumbência eu não esqueci de mencionar, e por isso do governo de Bechuanaland, ou para fui crucificado. os chefes. Kuper Schapera Mas a questão vai além. Desde o início, Não. Meu primeiro trabalho, entre os seu trabalho é sobre mudança. O pri- Bakgatla, foi feito para o International meiro livro que você editou trata da “ci- African Institute, durante meu curso na vilização ocidental” (Western Civiliza- Universidade da Cidade do Cabo. Po- tion, 1934). Married Life (1940a) é um rém, mais para o final… Veja, eu come- livro sobre mudança. Portanto, mudan- cei ali em 1929. Em 1934, um dos che- ça era o seu tema, aquilo que você foca- fes sugeriu que o governo devia regis- lizava… trar o direito e o costume nativos para os novos chefes que estavam surgindo, Schapera e que, devido à mudança, nada sabiam Mas não tinha escapatória. a respeito, ou sabiam muito pouco. Eles iam recrutar três funcionários públicos Kuper para fazer o registro, quando eu disse: Algumas pessoas escaparam! “Olha, eu sou antropólogo. É o que eu faço”. E foi quando eu comecei. Então, Schapera o Handbook of Tswana Law and Custom Não. Seligman, que foi meu orientador (1938a) foi comissionado pelo governo. na London School of Economics, costu- mava falar sobre o Sudão. E no Sudão Kuper eles marcavam santuários ancestrais A pedido dos chefes? com potes de cerâmica. Uma vez eu es- tava caminhando tranqüilamente em Schapera Mochudi, com minha câmera, quando A pedido dos chefes. E foi nessa época vi, no fundo de um quintal, um tripé de que eu levei um belo fora. Havia um madeira, sobre o qual havia um pote de encontro anual dos chefes, no qual dis- cozinha. Eu disse, “Aha! Eis um santuá- cursaria o comissário residente [resi- rio ancestral!”, e resolvi perguntar. Ora, dent commissioner]3. Disseram que eu alguém estava cozinhando miolos de deveria participar. Fui apresentado: es- carneiro… Era puro nonsense! se é o Dr. Schapera que vai estudar as leis e costumes de vocês. E eu pensei Kuper que, sendo judeu, poderia fazer um Isso foi em 1929?2 agrado aos anciãos, e me levantei di- zendo que também havia sido circunci- Schapera dado com dez dias de idade. Então, um Sim. dos chefes velhos ergueu-se e falou: “Está tudo muito bem, mas não quer di- Kuper zer que você com dez dias de idade te- Então, seu foco era a mudança, e você nha adquirido o mesmo conhecimento começou a escrever esses textos sobre que nós obtemos quando somos circun- mudança. A segunda coisa incomum no cidados”. Que esnobada! Mas depois 136 ENTREVISTA disso correu tudo bem, e eu escrevi o Schapera Handbook of Tswana Law and Custom. Mudança social. Veja, você começa es- tudando uma coisa como você a encon- Kuper tra. Depois se pergunta por que ela é E ele foi usado pelos chefes em seus tri- assim, e é aí que entra a mudança so- bunais. cial. Em outras palavras, o estudo tor- na-se histórico porque as coisas já não Schapera são como eram, digamos, cem anos Creio que sim. atrás, na época em que David Livings- tone e outros lá estiveram. Kuper E eles escrevem notas no verso, revi- Kuper sando… Isso é exatamente o oposto do que a maioria dos funcionalistas estava fazen- Schapera do. Eles faziam uma descrição de um Eu sei que o livro foi usado por magis- sistema dito tradicional, e no final sepa- trados… magistrados brancos. Por outro ravam um capítulo para dizer que, sem lado, foram impressas umas cem cópias dúvida, hoje tudo é completamente di- contendo páginas em branco, que fo- ferente. Você começou no caminho in- ram entregues aos chefes para que pu- verso. Você dava uma descrição do que dessem escrever seus comentários. via, todas as complexidades do cristia- Tshekedi4começou bem, mas depois… nismo, educação, migração da mão-de- por exemplo, quando chegou ao tema obra, para então perguntar: “como isso da sedução sexual… aconteceu?”, “que processos levaram à situação presente?” Ora, foi uma inver- Kuper são, uma inversão revolucionária das Que não é exclusividade Tswana! monografias funcionalistas clássicas.
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