1916. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 12275
PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS. By Mr. OAKEY (by request) : Memorial of American Braneh of the Socialist Pm·ty of Hartford, Conn., favoring 1-cent post Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, private bills were introduced age; to the Committee on the Post Office and Post Roads. nnd severally referred as follows : By Mr. RANDALL: Memorial of Joseph G. Rickels and 230 By Mr. ADAllt: A bill (H. R. 17340) granting a pension to others, of San Fernando, Cal., protesting against bills to amend Margaret A. Weed; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. the postal-laws; to the Committee on the Post Office and Post By 1\Ir. BLACKMON: A bill (H_. R. 17341) granting a pen Roads. - sion to Deborah Harrison; to the Conimittee on Pensions. By Mr. DRUKKER: A bill (~. R.17342) granting an increa. ) of pension to Emily Davison; to the Committee on Invalid Pen- SENATE. sions. - By Mr. FULLER: A bill (H. R. 17343) granting an increase TuEsDAY, August 8, 1916. of pension to William. M. Haines; .to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. . · . (~egislatit'e day of Saturday, August 5, 1916.) · Also, a bill (H. R. 17344) granting an increase of pension to The Senate reassembled at 10 o'clock a. m., on the expiration Byron See; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. of the reeess. By Mr. GOOD: A bill (H. R. 17345) for the relief of John · Mr. BUSTING. Mr. President, I suggest the ·absence of a Dauberman ; to the Committee on Military Affair:;. quorum. By Mr. KENNEDY of Iowa: A bill (H. R. 17346) granting The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will can the roll. an increase of pension to Margaret Tschoepe; to the Committee The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators an· on Invalid Pensions. swered to t_!l_eir names : . By 1\lr. NICHOLS of Michigan: A bill (H. R. 17347) granting As burst Dillin_gham Lni!.e Smith, Ga. an increase of pension to William E. Meadows; to the Com Brady Gallinger Martin. Va. Smltb, S.C. mittee on Invalid Pensions. Brandegee Gronna Mvers Rmoot Bryan Hardwick Nelson 'l'aggart By Mr. OLDFIELD: A bill (H. R. 17348) granting a pension Chamberlain Hitchcock Overman Tillman to Tilman L. Crafton ; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Clapp Husting I'cnrcse Vardaman .Also, a bill (H. R. 17349) for the relief of R. W. Earnheart; Clark, Wyo . James RansrteU "Warren Co It Johnson. S. Da.Jr. Robinson Williams to the Committee on Claims. Culberson Jones Shafrot'1 Works Cummins Kenyon Sheppmd Curtis Kern Simmons PETITIONS, ETC. The VICE PRESIDENT. Forty-two Senators have answered U"!lder clause 1 of Rule XXII, petitions and papers were laid to the ron call. There is not a quorum present. The Secretary on the Clerk's desk and referred as follows: will call the roll of absentees. By the SPEAKER (by request): Petitions of women-voters The Secretary called the ·names of the absent Senators. and of Garfield and Lake Counties, Colo., favoring woman-suffrage 1\Ir. STEBUNG and Mr. THoMPSON answered to their names amendment; to the Committee on the Judiciary. when called. . By 1\lr. BUTLER : Memorial of Board of Trade of West l\11'. CHILTON and :Mr. CLARKE of Arkansas entered the Cham Chester, Pa., indorsing the Smith-Hughes bill; to the Committee ber and answered to their names. on Education. Mr. KERN. I desire to announce the absence of the senior Also, petition of citizens of Pennsylvania, opposing House bill Senator from :Maryland [Mr. SMI~H], the senior Senator from 10845'; to the Committee on Military Affairs. New Jersey [Mr. MARTINE], the junior Senator from Louisiana Also·, petition of citizens of Chester County, Pa~, opposing [Mr. BRoussARD], and the senior Senator from Ohio [Mr. PoM House bill 6468; to the Committee on the Post Office and Post ERENE], who are necessarily detained from the Senate. Roads. Mr. ToWNSEND, Mr. THOMAS, Mr. BECKHAM, and Mr. BANK· Also, petition of woman's section of the Navy League of the HEAD- entered the Chamber and answered to their names. United States, Coatesville Division, Philadelphia Branch, and The VICE PRESIDENT. Fifty Senators have answered to Devon Division, Philadelphia Branch, favoring adequate prepara the roll call. There is a quorum present. tion ; to. t;he Committee on Military Affairs. Also, memorials of public meetings of Chester, Pa., favoring ARMY APPROPRIATIONS--cONFERENCE REPOR'r (8, DOC. NO. 526). adoption of ronstitutional amendment forbidding polygamy; to Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. I ask unanimous consent that the con the Committee on the Judiciary, ference report on the Army appropriation bill be taken up for Also, memorials of union meeting of Presbyterian, Baptist, consideration. · and Methodist Churches of Media; union meeting of West The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there objection? Chester; Presbytery of Chester; union congregational meet There being no. objection, the Senate proceeded to consider ings of Borough of Ridley Park, Pa. ; mass meetings of Darby ; the report of the committee of conference on the disagreeing Methodist Episcopal Church of Parkesburg; union mass meeting votes of the two Houses on the amendm-ents of the Senate to of Phoenixville ; Darby Methodist Episcopal Church, of Darby ; the bill (H. R. 16460) making appropriations for the support of public meeting of Haven Church ; union meeting of the Parkland the Army for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1917. churches of :Media, Pa., favoring constitutional amendment: for Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. I ask for th~ adoption of the report. bidding polygamy; to the Committee on the Judiciary. Mr. CLAPP. I think we ought to have the report read or By 1\lr. CONNELLY: Petition of citizens of Russell, Ellis, some slight intimation given the Senate as to what the report Gransfield, Osborn, and Palco, all in the State of Kansas, per contains. I should like to ask the Senatm· from Oregon what taining to enactment of such legislation as will enable the Inter the conference committee did with the provision relating to state Commerce Commission to arbitrate and settle certain in the age at which young men may enlist without their parents' dustlial disputes; to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign consent? Commerce. Mr ~ CHAMBERLAIN. · In asking that the conference. report By Mr. DALE of New York: Petitions of J. 0. Crowell, of Den be adopted I had no desire to hasten it through without con nis, and A. Youn~ of Boston, 1\!ass., favoring woman-suffrage sideration. The conference report was submitted yesterday and amendment; to the Committ~ on the Judiciary. printed in the REcmm and it bas been printed in docmnent form Also, petition of Liquor Dealers' Protective Association of and laid on the desk of Senators. I shall be glad to make any illinois, relative to enforcement of United States revenue laws statement in reference to it. governing sale of intoxicating liquors; to the Committee on I may state to the Senate fiTst, generally, that the bill as Ways and l\1eans. reported to the Senate originally appropriated $330,599,010.10. By Mr. EAGAN: Petition of Liquor Dealers' Protective As Tlle net ded11ctions on the floor of the S.ena.te were $16,628,563. sociation of lllinois, relative to United States revenue laws gov In tabular form, I may state it as follows : · erning the sale of intoxicating liquor at retail; to the Committee Ot~o jloo1' oJ Senate. on "\ Vays and Means. Deductions------$29, 318, 295. 00 By l\1r. FLYNN: Petition of Seggerman Bros., of New York Additions ______...: ______:____ ~ 689, 732. 00 against Senate amendment to revenue bill, relative to suspen: sion of drawbacks; to the Committee on Ways and Means. · Net deductions------16", 62&, 563. 00 By 1\lr. FULLER: Papers to accompany bill granting an in As reported to Senate______~--- 33~, 599, 010. 10 crease of pension to Byron See; to the Committee on Invalid Net dednctions ______;'"--- 16, 1528, 56a. 00 Pensions. As passed Senate ______..:. ______313, 070, 447. 10 · By Mr. MATTHEWS; Evidence to slipport House bill 17308, As passed Rouse------~----_;_.._: _ _._ ___:_ 182. H03, 3:56. 10 granting an incr~ase of pension to Dailiel E. Warner; to the Committee on Pensions. Increase over Ilouse bin------~--- ~31,667,091.00 ;12276 CONGR.ESSION AL RECORD-SENATE. AUGUST. 8, r------.------Reductions in conf{'rence------$48, 363,917.00 lation of thls character. It is found in a book, which is a col Additions in conference------1, 990, 000. 00 lection of lectures delivered at one time by the present Chief Net reductions------46,373,917.00 Executive. - I do not attempt to quote literally the language used by the As p::~ ssed Senate------313, 970, 447. 10 Net reductions in conference------4G, 373, 917. 00 Senator from Georgia, but I intend to state the impressions which were made upon my mind by his references to the Presi As agreed to in conference------267.596,530.10 dent of the United States. A s pa. sed House------182,303,350.10 He made two charges against this distinguished citizen, both Increase oYer House bilL------85,293, 174.00 of which are gra'""e and serious. In substance, he said, first, l\k HARDWICK. It is al>out 250 per cent increase over an that the President is attempting to coerce the Democratic ordinary Army aQpropriation l>ill in normal time·, is it not? majority into a support of the bill we are now considering. Mr. CHAMBERLAIN. Just about that. Substantially, he said that the President is using his vast In answer to the question of the Senator from Minnesota power, his almost illimitable influence to compel the Senators as to the amendment which was proposed and passed by the who share his political belief and participate with him in n Senate referring to the consent of parents to the enlistment political organization to support this bill against their better of young men between the ages of 18 and 21, the House con judgment. He also said that he is exercising th\s powP.r, be lieving that the measure is unconstitutional, for you wlll re fer~es re1;ul':ed to agree to that amendment, and the Senate conferees, after two or three days' discussion, receded from the member bow careful the Senator from Georgia was to abstain Senate amendment. from any suggestion or to make any admission that the Presi· 1\fr. CLAPP. l\Ir. President, I do not intend to call for the dent had changed his mind with regard to the Constitution yeas nnd nays on agreeing to the report. I know that the and the authority conferred upon Congress in the commerce country is going to be very much disappointed indeed at the clause of that document. _ . striking out of the Senate amendment with reference to the 1\Ir. President, I have been uncertain from the beginning, for consent of parents. For one, anticipating that there will not three years or more, whether or not the President of the United be a yea-and-nay vote, I simply want to say that I shall vote States lrnows anything about the Constitution: I grant that against the adoption of the report. he is an intellectual power; I grant that he is a man of fino Tho VICE PRESIDENT. The que tion ts on agreeing to the attainments, of unusual training and education; but I am not conference report. ready to admit that he has any acquaintance with the ConstHu The report was agreed to. tion; for, if I do admit it, I must at the same time believe that he is utterly indifferent to its obligations and to its mandates. CHILD LABOR. I do not know what influence the President of the country The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the con has attempted to exert upon the Democratic majority with sideration of the l>ill (H. R. 8234) to prevent interstate com respC5!t to this particular bill; but I do know, and every in merce in the products of child labor, and for other purposes. telligent man in the United States knows, that from the be Mr. CUMMINS. 1\ir. President, inasmuch as I was a member ginning of his administration to the present moment the Chief of the subcommittee which heard the testimony and the argu Executive has attempted, through every influence of which ments submitted upon this bill, and am in a measure respon he is possessed, to absorb the legislative power of the Govern sible not only for the form in which it appears aj: this time ment and to exercise it in connection with the administrative or before the Senate but for the substance of the proposed legisla executive power; and, if he understands that the forefathers tion, I shall ask the indulgence of the Senate while I consider established a government in which there were to be three in as briefly as possible some of the suggestions which have been dependent and coordinate branches, then he is careless of his made in opposition to the legislation. duty and obligations, because it is known to us all that he bas I listened with great interest to the discussion of the subject done everything that he could do to merge every power of by the junior Senator from Georgia [Mr. HARDWICK]. His responsible society in the Executive Office. argument was comprehensive; it was analytical; it was inter There has not been a single important measm·e passed l>y esting; it was eloquent; and I compliment him most sincerely the Congress of the United States since the 4th day of March upon the performance, for I believe, if the measure becomes a 1913, that Congress has not felt his heavy hand upon it. I d~ law and ever reaches the Supreme Com·t of the United States, not say-it would be possibly disrespectful, and certainly it is that those who oppose it could not do better than to utilize the disagreeable to say-how far be has succeeded in taking to argument he has already made. himself all the legislative powers; but those he has not taken I listened also with great care and with equal interest to the have escaped him because he was unable to master the situa argument made by my friend, the distinguished Senator from tion. This is the breach of the Constitution of which I most North Carolina [Mr. OVERMAN]. His observations touched a complain. · phase of the subject well worthy of attention, for he dealt The distinguished Senator from Georgia, in his forebodings rather with the policy of the legislation than with its constitu with regard to the unconstitutionality of this measure and its tionality; and if I ha-ve had any serious doubt as I have exam grave consequences upon the future of the Republic and upon ined this subject it has related to the necessity of the legisla- our form of government, seems to. ignore, at least he but tion rather than to its validity. · lightly mentions, the more serious and graver violation of the - May I suggest to the Senator from GeOrgia, who unhappily Constitution that bas been witnessed every day during this is not present at this moment, that little is to be accomplished administration. by citations from the statesmen of former days. I heard with My friend from Connecticut [l\Ir. BRANDEGEE] and my friend delight the views of Madison and of Jefferson and of the from California [1\Ir. WonKs] seem to think that we are at men of that period; l>ut those views, Mr. President, contribute the parting of the ways. They seem to think that the Consti little to the investigation we are now making. Those men are tution is about to be shattered by thi particular legislation; not alone in their expressions of a desire to preser-ve intact but if they would lift their eyes to a IJroa "·orking more- than 8 hours a day had contributed to their pro that attempt-! would enter upon the \\·ork much more confi duction. -If thnt provision in the bill had remained, in my judg dently with a bill free from some of the impracticable and, as ment the Supreme Com-t or any_other court would have declared I think, arbitrary and unreasonable provisions of the -House it unreasonable and therefore unconstitutional. It would have measure. been .nn indefensible invasion upon the rights and privileges of Mr. President, I have but a word .to say with regard to the the business men of this counb.·y. constitutionality of the bil1. I can understand the perturbation For instance, take· the illustration of Mm·shall Field & Co., of some of my friends who look upon this bill as the parting of Chicago, with a store which covers two or three city blocks. of the ways, who loo:K upon it as a complete change in the form That company or any other company-and I am simply instanc of our Government. We have been at the parting of the ways, ing that company in order to show what would be the situation-. Mr. President, so often in the history of this country that it does wonlll be compelled to have a certificate from the manufacturer not alarm me to meet the opportunity to take either one of two of m·ery piece of goods or every article in its store or it could 1·oads. Every great measure intended for the happiness and not send them beyond the State of Illinois. welfare of the people which has been propose . Ir. CUl\IMINS. l\lr. Presiuent, I think there is ,a great con That is the fifth amendment- fu~ion in the .argument at tbat point. The Senator says it is the ;power of Congress over interstate and international commerce is not a Tegulation of commerce, ·but it is a regulation of commerce as full nnd complete as is the power of any .State over its domestic beC"ause it is a prohibition against the transportation of certain commerce. c01lllllo I that decided· unconstitutional because there was no relation to Mr. BORAH. Let me :xsk the Senator this question, if the commerce? · Senator from Iowa will pardon me for a moment. I suggested Mr. CUMl\HNS. It was declared not to be a regulation of this th-e other day. interstate commerce in some aspects, just! like the railway Suppose that A addresses a letter to B, and asks her to came liabi1ity ·law; but those decisions were the result simply of a: into the adjoining State, and assigns a perfectly" legitimate finding that they were not regulations o:f interstate commerce, reason for it, and in response to that B goes and takes up her but were, in the ca.se of the railway-liability law~ regulations residence i'Il the adjoining State and remains there until under of intrastate commerce as well. · all the decisions she becomes a part of the per onality, or-using Answering the question put by the Senator from Cannectieu.t, the term in a different way-the commodities af the St..'lte. he finds difficulty in connecting with commerce the effect of the Suppose that a montb thereafter, or two months thereafter, A prohibition against shipments from State to State. It matters induces H to enter into- a honse of prostitution, be himself not whether it bas aey effect or not. We employ a regulation never having been in the channels of interstate trade ne>er of commerce. Now, witho'Ut asserting that the Lottery ease is having crossed the State> line, never having. been in co~nnerce. exactly pm·::dlel to this-although I think the principle upon at all; is he not guilty, undet~ the law. and so is she? which it is decided controls this--without asserting that the 1\:lr. WORKS. Mr. President. that does not touch the ques white-slave act is precisely like the act we are now considering, tion that is involved here, to my mind. yet it is still true that what Congress attempted to do- in the Mr. BORAH. But the Senator said it was carrying an evil Lottery case was to suppress gambling; that is all. Its only influence into the State. Now, it was not an evil influence purpose was to suppress gambling. That was: the object of the when it was carried into the State at all. There was: not even. ln&v. Now, it did it througb a regulation. of commerce, by for• an evil intent upon the part of tlle party that was in interstate bi1tding all the paraphernalia nnd all the instrumentaliti-es for commerce. carrying on a lottery from entering into the channels of inter Mr. WORKS. Then there would be no criminal offense at state cnmmerce; bnt its pmpose was ro suppress gambling, and all, if the Senator is right abaut it.. what has 1;Uillbling to do with interstate commerce? Is gam ~~~ BORAH. Exactly;. but it does not have to be any . bling, oJT the maintenance o:f a lottery, more, nearly related tu cnmmal o!f'ense. If the purpose and intent upon the part of commerce or the general welfare of the people than the sup the party who · was, never in interstate commerce, who· was pression of child labor, where the effect of tOO cfiild labor never a part of the commercial transaction, was to induce this prohibited is to impair, if not. to destroy, the citizenship of the other party to enter into that co:nditi~n o£ affairs. they ,u:>uld Unitetl Rtates? be guilty under the law. Ur. BORAH. 1\Ir. President,. in the Lottery case the cotrrt Mr. WORKS. Mr. Presid.ent.. unless there was some ulterior did not lay stress upon the proposition that it was aiding or purpose on the part of the man. in the case instanced. by the. augmenting commeree. The court put it in unmistakable Senator from Idaho, there would be no criminal offense; and terms upon the desirability of getting rid of an evif or wrong unless there was some sucb intent as that that might have been which was demoralizing the whole- country. -It was not be concealed by securing the transfer of the woman. by innocent cau. e it afd'ed commerce, or becallS'e it diminished commerce, means, there would be nothing to Iegisiate against. The very or because it in any way affected ~ommerce- per se. but because fact that some such inftnence is being used, and is being car· the court said : Here is an institution which is, from a moral ried out by traQsportution or commerce, is what constitntes the standpoint, demoralizing the wbole country·. Now, when you offense, and is the only reason for legislating on the subject. strip it of everything else, didl the cou.rt bold anything other Mr. BOR.ill. Exactly ; but the Senator took the position than that immoral influences should' not use the- channels of that the commodity or tJ'.le person traveling. through the chan interstate- tr~de to accomplis'b their purpose? · nels of trade must have been an evil or an immoral influence. Mr. CUMMINS. That is all. There is but one sentence in 1\Ir. WORKK No; the Senator did not take that posUion. the lottery-case decision which in any way differentiates that · Mr. BORAH. If the Senator will lOok at the REcORD he will case from ti1~ principles we are now attempting- to establish, see that that is the position he took. ~ antl that is immaterial. That sentence is this-I do not quote Mr. WORKS. The RECORD will speak for itself, Mr~ Presi it literally-but it is found in that part of the opinion which dent. My position is that there must be an effort, through says thnt the States into· which the lottery tickets or lottery transportation, to canry into· another State an evif influence. instrumentalities are powerless to· prevent the introduction of It may have been done, so far as the record shows, by innocent those things int() the State. Jm~t so with the Hoke case. I means, and it may appear that it was done by innocent influ think' the same suggestion is found in that decision, but tbat ences; but there must be behind it aU tluit evil influence that was: simply describing that particular case, and does not modify can be legislate4 against, and that is tfie only ground upon in any fashion whateve1· the principle which is established, which it can be done. Now, that does not exist in this case namely, that the United States can, through any regulation of at all. commerce, suppress any evil· that affects the public mQrals, Mr. CUMMINS. Mr. President. the Senator from California health, or welfare.. That power has been exercised so often takes ·altogether too narrow and illiberal a view both of the that it can not be successfWly controverted at this time. Constitution and of the decisions in these two cases. Tbe pw· Mr ~ WORKS rose. . pose. of the lottery statute was to suppress gambting-oot in Mr. CUMMINS:. I yield to the Senator from California. one State, but in all the States-so far as it could be done. 1\lr. WORKS. Mr. President, ft seems to me the :fallacy of The purpose of the white-slave act was not simply ro prevent the suggestion made by the Senator from Idaho, and also in the travel,, but it was to help to suppress prostitution; and the Su position of the Senator from Iowa, is that in the Lottery-Ticket preme Com·t so declared in its opinion-that prostitution is an case and in the White-Slave case there was an attempt to intro evil ,[ll"eying npon· the soeiety of the United States; and if we duce or carry into another State, through transpo-rtation, an can affect tJ.·aru~!}Ortation by a regulation of connnerce so as to assist in suppressing that evil throughout the country, we evil or immoral infl:uenee. That was what gave the Govern4 ment the right to legislate on the subject, and nothing else. have the constitutional antharity to do i4 just as we had the Now, that condition of things is totally absent here. . constitutional authority to suppress gambling through an inter4 1\fr: BORAH. Mr. President, I challenge the proposition so diction or prohibition against the transportation of tbe things fa1· as the White-Slave case is concerned. that made gambling possible. 1\lr. WORKS. I know the Senator does. He has done so We want to suppress the employment of children under unfa heretofore. vorab-le conditions. Now, how do we do i-t? We can do it by intervening between the employer of the children and his mar· Mr. BORAH. I will demonstrate it_ i£ the Senator will listen ket, if it be beyond th-e State, and say that you can not per· for a moment. petuate your business:, you can not complete y&ur undertaking :Mr. WORKS. I shall be glad to listen. through the channels of interstate commerce. It seems to me Mr. BOl{Aff. The case. which was before the court, as it that S() long as we employ an acknowledged power of regulat· transpired, did carry into another State an immoral influence ing comiD€rce, so long as the form of the act which we pass is but that was not the Um1t of the law. That case does not cir: a regulation of commerce, no one can be heard to dispute om · cumscribe by an means the extent of the: law. The person who power or to. di8pute the validity of the act unless we have was carried into that State might have been a perfectly moral invaded thE.> rights and the privileges of an individual-rights influence. might have been a perfectly innocent influence, and and privileges which are se€ured to him by the Constitution. yet would have come within tile purview of the law. Mr. WORKS. May I ask the. Senator a question'? :::;up.pose _ lli. WORKS. Not at all. There must be some evil in:ffuence all the negotiations that led to an act of prostitution should carried into another State in order to give Congress the right have taken place within a Sta.te and that the-transportation from to legislate on. that subject at all. There is where the Senator one place to another had been within . the State, and had not and I disagree.. · gone outside of it, does the Senator pretend that under those -12282 CONGRESSIONAL RECOR.D-SENATE. AUGUST 8, conditions Congress would have a right to legislate on that the regulation would fall. But it is a regulation of commerce subject? just as fully as though it had been sustained. Mr. CUMMINS. I have no doubt about that. I have no 1\fr. WORKS. Mr. President-- doubt that Congress may declare that a prostitute shall not Tile PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Iowa travel on tl'ains at all. yield again to the Senator from California? Mr. WORKS. Within a State? Mr. CUMMINS. I do. l\Ir. CUl\IMINS. Not within the State, but one desiring to Mr. WORKS. The Senator is right in saying that the pro· enter another State. hibition against transporting a certain thing through the chan· l\1r. WORKS. I am talking about the whole proceedings nels of interstate commerce is a regulation of commerce. There taking place within a State. is not any doubt about that. But in this instance every detail Mr. CUl\IMINS. I have no doubt Congress can declare that of this bill shows that is not the purpose of it. It goes back one convicted of crime shall not be permitted to pass from one to the State and in great detail determines what shall not be State to another. I have no doubt that we can reach the purifi done in the State, and as attempting to enforce a penalty cation of the morals of the country through the interdiction or against doing that thing the manufacturer is forbidden to }Jrohlbition of the use of interstate instrumentalities wherever tTansport the thing manufactured through the channels of the crime or offense is of such a nature that it affects the whole commerce. body politic. Mr. CUMMINS. But it seems to me the Senator from Cali Mr. WORKS. It is hardly worth while to argue with the fornia is wrong about that. The regulation of commerce is not Senator if he has that broad view of the powers of the National nominal; it is real. It says that these goods shall not be trans Government. That breaks down every barrier and removes all ported. There is no pretense about that. It is as substantial limitations. as it is possible to imagine. But when the person whose goods Mr. CUl\ll\IIKS. The Senator has said that many times. are thus refused transportation from one State to another comes l\Ir. WORKS. It is the first time I have said it. to the court he must say that Congress had no authority to Mr. CUl\lliiNS. No; the Senator has said a great many regulate commerce in this way, because it interferes with my times that these views which I think are inseparable from the constitutional rights and privileges. That is the only attack support of the measure would break down all limitations, de that can ever be made upon this bill. There is no man who can stroy our form of government, and turn over to the Federal ever reach an issue upon the bill unless be alleges that tho power the entire police regulation of the State. regulation of commerce which it is now proposed to make vio I do not assent to that. There is a very large field, a great lates some other provision of the Federal charter, and he will field, which the States may occupy and which the Federal Gov reach it by alleging that he has a constitutional right under the m·nment can not enter. I am speaking here of a regulation of fifth amendment to hire these children and to transport the commerce, if this is a regulation, and no one doubts that a pro products of the factory in which they are employed. When he hibition is a regulation. That has been determined by the does that it will be for the court to say whether this is fairly Supreme Court so often that it is folly to even read the deci within the police power which att - M.r. CUMMINS. No; I have said, over and over again, that Mr. BORAH. Exactly. . That goes back to the proposition that the only limitation. upon our right to regulate commerce or to it was thought to be an evil. prohibit transportation of goods from one State to another is Mr. WORKS. If the Senator will pardon me, the inquiry was found in the fifth amendment of the Constitution. addressed to me, and the Senator from Connecticut seems to That is the only limit. When you read the fifth amendment ha>e taken it off my hands. you will find it protects property and persons against an arbi The PRESIDING OFFICER The Senator from Iowa has :trary invasion of their rights and privileges, that it insists on the floor. Does the Senator yield? due process of Jaw, but the police power of a Government, of the l\1r. CUJ\il\Hl'trs. I yielded for a question to the Senator Fe<1eral Government in this instance, is not forbidden by the fifth from Idaho, and I have no objection to yielding for the reply amendment to the Constitution. It exists with it. sought to be made by the Senator from California. Mr. WORKS. Mr. President, I think the·Senator from Iowa Mr. 'VORKS. The Senator from Connecticut has not gone is just as wrong on that proposition as he has been on the quite far enough in my estimation to meet the circu.m.c:;tances other, namely, that there is no limitation except that contained suggested by the Senator from Idaho. In the case instanced in the fifth amendment to the Constitution. There is a funda by the Senator from Idaho all that would be necessary for the mental right that prevents this sort of legislation that interferes manufacturer to do was to set up the fact that there. is an with the rights of individuals in the Stale, independent of the effort to prevent the transportation of these goods for the sole fifth amendment. reason that be has used child labor in the manufacture. That 1\fr. BORAH. What is that fundamental right? is not a violation of any Federal law and is not a matter ahout Mr. WOUKS. It is the right to control by the laws o£ the which Congress has r.ny right or power to legislate. It is wholly State and not by the Government. a State matter. and if he has committed any offense, it is an Mr. BORAH. That all goes back to the proposition whether offense against the ~tate. That, in my judgment, would be a or not the commerce clause reaches this. complete defense independent of any question of the fifth Mr. WORKS. Certainly, but you are appealing now to the amendment. police power in Congress. Mr. BORAH. That undoubtedly would have been just as 1\fr. BORAH. Thl:' Senator from Iowa takes the position, and complete a defense in the white-slave act. I think he is entirely correct in that, that th-e-re is a police power Mr. WORKS. Not at all. attending the regulation of commerce and is an implied power Mr. CUl\flliNS. Just a moment. in connection with the regulation of commerce. But I want to Mr. WORKS. The Senator will ignore the apparent distinc- ask the Senator a question, if I do not interfere with the Sena tion between the two cases. . tor from Iowa. M.r. BORAH. The Senator ignores· the apparent distinction The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from · Iowa between the two cases that seem to exist in the mind of the yield to the &-nator from Idaho?. Senator from California because he thinks the. distinction does l\Ir. CUMMINS. I yield. not exist. · Mr. BOHAH. We- '''ill assume that this law has been passed Mr. FLETCHER. 1\fr. President-- and is controverted in the courts~ that an action is brought in Mr. CUMMINS. I yield to the Senator from Florida. the courts and it is presented to the Supreme Court of the Mr. FLETCHER. I suggest this consideration to the Sen United States. The man whose go.ods have been denied admis ator in further confirmation of what the Senator from CaLi sion in the channels of the interstate trade, the man whose goods fornia has urged, namely, that whereas the Supreme Court has have been prohibited, says," My goods have been prohibited from held that in circumstances Congress may prohibit interstate being shipped in interstate commerce." The court will say, commerce in articles after they are cre&ted, it has never held ., Upon what ground " ; and he will say, ... Because I have employed and will ..Jever hold, in my judgment, that Congress has the child labor." Then does the Senator contend that that is such power to prohibit the creation. After all, is it not the purpose an arbitrary exertion of power on the part of the National of this bill to prohibit the creation ot commodities except under Government that the man could go further and say, "I am pro· certain conditions? tected under the fifth amendment ,. ? l\11·. CUMMINS. Mr. President, this bill does not prohibit the M.r. WORKS. No; it is not necessary to take any such creation of articles by child labor. It does not prohibit the ground. manufacture of articles by child labor of any kind, of any age. l\Ir. BRANDEGEE. I claim that absolutely. It simply prohibits the man who is inhuman enough, if that be 1\lr. WOHKS. I think the Senator is right about that; but the proper standard, to employ children under these ages or that is not the only ground. over these hours from reaching a market for h: products l\f.c. BORAH. The Senator said a few moments ago we were through interstate channels. He must be content, if he desires getting down to earth. The Senator from Connecticut contends to employ children against the standard propo~ed in this act, that the denial of these goods to the channels of trade would be. with the markets of his own State, and to them, of course, he such an arbitrary exertion of power on the part of the National has access, and with them we do not interfere in any way. GoYernment that the man who had employed child Labor could Congress has constantly employed an express power to accom say, I am protected under the fifth amendment; that is, the plish purposes not related to that power in the sense that the taking of the goods without due process of law. Suppose the word ''relation" has been used by those who oppose this bill. court would say. as Justice Harlan said with reference to the I think I asked some Senator what he thought about the tari.f'f other matter, does the fifth amendment protect him in the em law. The tariff law is supposed to be bottomed upon our ployment of child labor under such conditions as to be inimical authority to tax. But whether it is bottomed upon our author to the welfare of the United States? Has a man a constitu ity to tax or our authority to regulate commerce with foreign tional right to ship his goods regardless of the fact that their nations, the application I desire to make of the instance is the shipment is in aid and furtherance of a system of business in same. We levy a duty upon an article which is ordinarily im which child labor is an essential factor? ported into the United States not to raise a revenue, but to l\Ir. BRANDEGEE. I think the fifth amendment would pro exclude the article. \Vhy do we do it? We do it in order to tect the property, innocent in itself, in. interstate commerce benefit the people of this country. We do it in order to create a transport11tion against the prohibitions of this bill just as effec market in our own country for Uh.---e goods manufacture'l upon tually as it \vould if the bill attempted to prohibit the putting our own soil. of a mill in a State or to -deprive men from voting. I think it I assume the Senator from Connecticut [1\!r. BRANDEGEE] is an utterly unreasonable prohibition. To have so held would will not say that could not be done, that that would be a mere be the taking uf property without compensation. pretense and a subterfuge, or that a court would say it was 1\fr. BOHAH. That is pretty well covered in the commodities in violation of some fundamental right of the citizen. clause, and that, it seems. to me, disposes of it. I beg to remind him that the party to which he and I and 1\fr. BH.ANDEGEE. The commodity-clause decision was ab the Senator from California belong have maintained for a hun solutely related to the question of interstate commerce and the dred years or more that the taxing power or the regulatory railroatl rate bi11 and the antidiscrimination bilT. power of the United States could be used for precisely that pur Mr. BORAH. But the Senator knows perfectly well the ob pose, to accomplish that end. These goods are not in them ject of the commodities clause was not to prohibit the particular selves injurious ; they are not poisonous; they are not adul articles because they were deleterious, was not the aid of com· terated; they bring with them no influence for evil; but we merce, per se, but it was for the purpose of compelling a cor regulate. ·commerce with other nations in order to promote the poration not to engage in two kinds -of business, because it was welfare of our own people. ~bought not to the interest of the community that it should Again1 take the case of the circulation of State banks. We do so. _ did not levy a tax upon the State banks' circulation in order l\1r. BRANDEGEE. No~ it was not. It was to prevent dis· to raise .a revenue, because we knew it would create no re-ve crimination in interstate commerce. nue; we levied it in order to destroy the circulation. Withln 12284 CONGRESSION.A.L RECORD-SENATE. AUGU-ST 81. my own time in the Senate there was introduced a bill which so that lou will understand the situation,- and we ·hope that you wi.ll come. am het·e to glvP you any information that you ·may desire seemed to have universal support to tax a certain kind or openly and frankly, i~ regard to the conditions ln the l::loutb. · ' matches. We did not· levy the tax in order to rais~ a reve nue. for we knew that we would receive not a penny from the On page 19 of the hearings this testimony was elicited from imposition. We did not levy it because the matches were harm Mr. Clark: ful to those who used them after they were put into the markets Mr. KEATING . .All Of the pupils- of the country, but we levied it solely because in the process of They were talking then about the schools. I wi ·h to say here manufacture in some States there were such baleful effects 1\ir. President, that, so far as I am concerned, one of the thing~ growing out of the handllng of the material of which the that bas attracted me to the support of this measure is the fact matches were composed that it was done for the general wel that it has for one of its objects the giving to children what fare, to promote the common good. belongs to them; giving them an opportunity for an education Mr. BORAH. Does the Senator have any doubt that we without which they can neither serve themselves nor their coun: could have denied the right to ship those matches? try; because our country is founded on education, on intelligence, Mr. CUMMINS. None whatsoever. I think it was suggested So Mr. KEATING asks: - on the floor of the Senate, at least, if not on the floor of the .All of the pupils who expected to go to that school Senate in tli.e committee when that measure was pending, that That was a night school- it could be reached just as well and probably better through a worked 12 hours in the factory that day? prohibition of such articles from interstate commerce. Mr. CLARK. Tbosr. above the legal age worked on the basis of 10 bout'S a da~. Ten hours a day is the longest that anybody can work. Mr. President, we have prohibited the shipment from one Mr. KEATING. But the children had worked 10 hours? State to another of scores and scores of articles that are not Mr. CLARK. Yes. in themselves injurious, that are just as harmless and innocent. Mr. KEATING . .And then they failed to show up at the night school? if not useful m· beneficial, as any commodity which passes day It appears that he bad stated in his previous testimony that after day over our great lines of transportat~on. the children did not attend the night school very generally~ Hence, Mr. KEATING's question: I do not intend to pas~ through these cases or give references to these statutes, because they are familiar to everyone, but And then th~ failed to show up at the night school? they all establish just one doctrine, that the transportation be it ~rio;~1.~K~dul~~l.' the night school Is not so much for the children as tween. the States is. within ·the control of Congress; that we can Mr. KEATING. Where do the children go? Mr. CLARK. To the day school. prohibit transportation to any person whom we may select or Mr. KEATING. Bow can they, lf they work all day in the mills? any commodities we may describe, provided we are not hindered Mr. CLARK. They go when they des1re. from so doing by either the fundamental law of the land, which l\1r. KEATING. Bow can they go? underlies the fifth amendment of the Constitution, or by the Mr. CLARK. The parents send them out. fifth amendment itself. miNi=t KEATING. llow can they do. that and work 10 hours a day in the If when we pass this law the general sense of mankind, the 1\!r .. CLARK: They do not do it above the age of 12 exce~t dur!ng the civilized conception of the United States, the standards of ::~Jdo~eJljr~~~mo~ 0t~~e si~~g~I.year. During the rest of t e term they morality, the ideals of the people have not so fortified the sh~~d ~::seDitK~4. po I understand you to say that a child's education measure as to bring any judicial tribunal to an abiding and Mr. CLARK. No. sir; I think it should be. optional after that time. I conclusive sense that the prohibition of child labor under the think the parents are pretty well capable of taking care of the children provisions of the bill is in lmrmony with the best standards of and they have the right to look after their education. That bas been civilization and is required by the highest necessities of the the law of the world. ~1r. SUMNERS. If you leave the question of education to the judgment Nation, then the court will say that this regulation of commerce of the parents after they are 14 years of age, why not leave it to them invades the fifth amendment of the Constitution, and is therefore ~11 the time, and. if you do not leave it to them all the time, why leave ·invalid; but if it believes that the Nation is deeply concerned 1t to them any t1me? Mr. CLARK. When these people come from the mountains they do not in the bodies, the minds, and the hearts of the children of the believe in education. That is the reason we do not have compulsory United States; if the court understands, as we all understand, eduC'ation in North Carolina, because the isolated mountain districts that the perpetuity of free institutions is dependent upon the wonld go Republican if we forced compulsory education on them. Mr. SMITH. I do not think that many of their Republicans are up this character of our citizenship and that the character of our citi way. zenship is involved in the opportunity which the children have Mr. CL.ARK. We have one. . to grow and develop and take on the stature mentally and Mr. NoLAN. In other words, they do not make much of a show in morally and physically of free men and free women, then the Congress? court will declare that it is a reasonable regulation of interstate Still further, on page 23, in connection with this matter Mr. commercE' and that it does not invadE' the rights or the privi Clark testifies as follows: leges to those who desire to employ labor under the forbidden Mr. NOLAN. You state that the question of compulsory education in North Carolina is a political question? condition of those who desire to use the facilities of transporta Mr. CLARK. It is optional ; yes. · tion to make their immoral employment profitable in commerce. Mr. NoLAN. What do you mean by a poUtlcal question? Mr. TOWNSEND. ?11r. President, I do not care to detain the Mr. CLARK. Well, the State is Democratic-most of it-anll our western counties are largely isolated communities. Those people nrc Senate unduly. For now about n week we have been listening on the balance of power, and if we put on a State-wide system of to a diRcussion of this bill, mostly on the constitutional side, compulsory education .it would swing the balance the other way, be cause people of the Isolated rural sections do not want compulsory and many arguments have been repeated over and over again, .education. . some of them by the same Senators. I think it must be pretty clem·Iy uncler~tood, at leal't. what the real constitutional situa Now note the consistency- Mr. NOLAN. Do you not think you nrc giving a mighty lot of con tion is. although learned Senators disagree. I aru not going to sideration to the minority down ther·e? criticize the position of Senators who oppose this bill on consti Mr. CLARK. If 1t will make them the majority; yes, sir. They llave tutional grounds. I think possibly there is a chance for legiti been in the majority in our tenth dish·ict. We often elect a Re I publican Congressman from there. We have one In this Congress. mate discussion of the question, but am satisfied that the Mr. CooPER. You people in North Carolina blame your condition measure will be held constitutional by tlle courts, first, because on the Republicans? I believe it is a just, nation-wide. important measure, and that liv~1n Ct~~R~0 ~:iaf~s: they blame it on a certain clnss of people who Congress has the right to determine what matters are considered Mr. NOLAN. They do not want to educate the Democrats, because of sufficient importance to the general welfare to bring them they ar·e afraid that they might vote the RepubUcan ticket lf they under the wide scope of the commerce provisions of the Consti wet·e educated. [Laughter.] Mr. CLARK. They vote the Democratic ticket now. If you force tution. It is perhaps the longest step that has thus far been on them <'Ompulsory education, they might change around and vote taL{en, but I believe it is in the same direction of established the other way for spite. precedents. - Mr. President, I simpty make this statement because I llaYe I notice, however, there is great opposition to this proposed been at a loss to understand why anyone not actuated by the lmv on other than constitutional grounds, and as a possible high notion, and a laudable one, too, that this bill is uncon explanation of such opposition I will read a little testimony that stitutional, could oppose a proposition of giving the children was taken before the Committee on Labor in the House of of this country the opportunity, the right which actually be~ Representn.tives when this matter was being there considered. longs to them. Other parts of this testimony, which I shall not I shall read from the testimony of Mr. David Clark, of Charlotte, read, show conclusively that th~e children can not possibly N. C., editor and sole owner of the Southern Textile Bulletin. obtain an education under the laws of the State where they He states this about himself in order to qualify as a witness: have no law against child labor. The fact is they do not obtain Mr. CLARK. My position is that I am In close touch with the textile it. I refer to the children who need it; the children of the industry of the South, and have been for 16 years, 8 years a cotton poorer classes who, it is thought, are obliged to work. manufacturer and 8 years the editor of two pubUcations. and for the last 5 years editor of the present publication..t which I own. It bas I submit, Mr. · President, it would be better for the State of been our desire to have you gentlemen come ;:south and see the mills, South Carolina and for any other State to grant a bonus to 191_6. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENA_TE. 12285 the manufacturers of the State, 1f they can not compete with expert, who evidently was familiar with southern factory life, their Nm·thern or other competitors where higher -wages are who had been operating in it for years, who-had been conduct paitl-it would be bettet· for them to grant a bonus equal to ing two great newspapers that took special care of these cotton the difference in cost of production and to give the children a industries. What he said seems to me should be given more chance for education in those Southern States. The States than a passing notice when we come to consider this bill in where universal education is known and enjoyed need no all its bearings. Federal child-labor law. Universal education is the enemy of Mr. COLT. l\Ir. President, the Constitution of the United ever:- species of slavery which thrives on the exploitation of States has been in force for nearly 130 years. We have also the ignorance by greed and cupidity. constitutions of 48 States. As I view the -situation to-day, the 1\lr. OVERMAN. 1\ir. President-- Constitution of the United States and the constitutions of the 48 The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does tb,e Senator from 1\Iichi States stand substantially unimpaired ; in other words, the frame gan yield to the Senator from North Carolina? work of our Federal form of government still stands complete l\1r. TOW~SEND. I yield. and unchanged. We must remember, however, that our Fed 1\lr. OVERMAN. I do not desire to take issue with Mr. eral Constitution is a rigid instrument, and that one of the de Clark, except that I wish to state the fact that the statistics. in fects of a rigid instrument is that ·it does not respond to the reference to the matter furnished by the Census Office, which changes in the moral sentiment of the people. In other words, will be found in my speech of yesterday-which I presume the we have the example of a rigid body and a moving body-that is, Senator from Michigan heard-- of society, ever moving forward and upward, and the rigid pro Mr. TOWNSEND. I read what the papers said about the visions of our Federal Constitution remaining unchanged. How Senator's speech, but I have not read the entire speech. to-day. are we to meet that situation? Society is the master. All laws I was necessarily absent during its delivery. are made for the Nation, and the Constitution itself must be 1\Ir. OVERl\1AN. I wish to say that the statistics furnished made in some way to conform with true national sentiment. by the Census Office show that North Carolina is increasing as Fortunately the provisions of the Constitution are in very to literacy- over a majority of the other States. In a majority general terms, as all legislation should be expressed in general of the States illiteracy is increasing, while it is decreasing in terms. Where you have a provision in general terms it becomes North Carolina. . _ elastic, and it can be molded to meet the changes in public· senti I wish further to say that there is not a cotton mill in our ment; for, Mr. President, ·laws must advance toward existing State which does not have a school, and that there is not a conceptions of right, justice, reason, and public policy. The child who works in the factories who can not read and write, great forces which control the life of a people are beyond the • for, under the law, a child can not work in them unless he can control of legal rules. The tendency toward popular govern read and write. You ca:n not get away from those facts, no meQt, toward the election of the Executive by popular vote, has matter what anyone may say. Not taking issue with the Sen overriddtn the constitutional provision with regard to the elec ator from Michigan or with 1\olr. Clark, I ask the Senator to toral college. This national tendency bas overridden the organic do the State of North Carolina the justice to read the facts law of the land, and there are other examples which might be as they appear in the official record. While we were a poor cited to the same effect. Therefore, in order to make · the law State. for a long time we ranked low in literacy; but so far as conform to the changed sentiments and conditions of the people the facts are concerned, for the last 10 years we have been im in their upward march to a higher civilization, we have added to proving in our percentage of literacy as compared ~ith the other the Constitution a number of usages, understandings, or conven States; and North Carolina to-day, I believe, stands eleventh tions which are superior to that instrument itself. That is one in that respect. Illiteracy has been decreasing in North Caro way in which the Constitution has been changed. There is also lina an the time. . ·another way. The Constitution may be modified or changed by 'Ve have four-month schools everywhere; and so far as the construction. And this way of modifying the Constitution is factories are concerned, I have been trying to get Senators illustrated in the history of the commerce clause in that instru to go down into North Carolina and see them. Every one of ment. them has n schoolhouse, which has been put up by the owners The commerce clause contains the broadest power conferred of the factories. I re~at, that child1·en can not work in those by that instrument on the Federal Government. There are no factories unless they can read and write. Therefore it is im limitations in the words which are ~sed. The question is not possible. until they are 12 years old, to work them, because, as what the word "commerce " meant in the times of Thomas I have said, they are not permitted to work unless they can Jefferson, but what does the word "commerce" mean to-day to read and write. That is the lnw, and the law is observed. meE>t the wants of this great and growing empire ; and we all Mr. TOWNSEND. I shall be very glad to read the Sena know how the word "commerce" has been enlarged in the last tor's speech. I have no doubt that there is great opportunity 100 years. Mr. President, if you take a rigid provision of the for a large improvement in the matter of illiteracy in the Constitution, enacted 127 years ago, and do not enlarge it by State of North Carolina as there is also in other· Southern construction it may break through revolution. The only way we States, and that progress has been comparatively great there can make this rigid Constitution conform to the great purposes can ·be no question; there has been and is great opportunity of government is by enlarging its abstract provisions through and I am glad of it, for I believe that knowledge is the founda interpretation in order to meet the sound moral judgment of the tion of a State's and of the Republic's perpetuity and great people. ness-- Mr. OVERMAN. Mr. President-- Mr. OVERMAN. So do I. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Rhot.le Mr. TOWNSEND. The education of its children, and espe Island yield to the Senator from North Carolina'! cially of its poor children, who start out somewhat handicapped, is the capital which a State should furnish them. The funda . Mr. COLT. Certainly. mentals at least of an education are necessary to every boy Mr. OVERMAN. Does not the Constitution itself mark out and girl when they engage in the battle of life. Deny them bow it shall be changed? I understood the Senator to say that these and you contribute not alone to illiteracy but to suffering, the Constitution could be changed by construction, but does not Oisease, crime, and degradation. that instrument by specific provL'Sion prescribe how it shall be Mr. OVERMAN. I fully agree with the Senator. We are changed? encouraging education in North Carolina. Mr. COLT. I will answer the Senator by saying that I am I wish to say that our people are opposed to compulsory not referring to radical changes such. as might need to be . education, especially the people in the mountain section. That brought about by amendm~nt. I am taking, for instance, the section ~s now rt!presentet.l in the- other House by a Republl general power conferred by the Constitution upon Congress to <'an-a goo,d man and a strong man-and he represents those regulate commerce. I am saying that that provision might have people. He is opposed to this bill, and made a speech against received a comparatively narrow construction 100 years ago ; ft in the other House. He knows that those people have been it might have been held, possibly, to relate solely to the regu opposed for a hundred years to compulsory .education. All of lation of articles transported from one State to another, ami them are to the "manner born." We can not in my State yet we know that it has been held by construction to include enforce educatjon on them; but we are doing everything in the instrumentalities of commerce; it has also been held by our power to get their children to go to_ school. We put up construction to include the purchase by one corporation of nice schoolhouses on nearly every hut in the State. That shows stock in another corporation, when that stock apparently had the ~·emarkable record we have _made in the last 10 years only the most remote relation to the article that might be better than that of two-thirds of the other States. produced in a given mill and subsequently become an article Mr. TOWNSEND. Mr. President, I was attracted to _this of commerce. I do not mean organic changes such as must testimony on this bill by this gentleman, who qualified as an be brought about by amendment; I mean changes which come LIII--773 . 12286 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. AUGUST 8', fairly within the language or purpose of the constitutional pro it is in violation of the fifth amendment or some other pro vision. vision of the Constitution. Now, this bill says- :Mr. BRYAN. The provision of the Constitution to which That no producer, manufacturer, or dealer shall ship or deliver for :;: have referred is found in section 2 of Article IV. There is shipment in interstate or foreign commerce any article or commodity a provision in this bill that relieves dealers from the require the product of any mine or quarry- ment to have guarantees that no children have been employed And so forth. in these factories except in the State of production. Does the Of course, this provision relates to commerce between the Senator think that provision is valid, in view of the consti States. Its purpose is to regulate or prohibit commerce be tutional provision which I ha ve just quoted? tween the States. We are dealing with the broad power-the Let .rpe give the Senator an illustration of what I have in my broadest power, perhaps, in the Constitution-of regulating mind. We will take Bristol, Tenn., whicll is on the border line commerce in all its forms. between Tennessee and Virginia. The west side of the street is We know that the Sup1·eme Court never holds an act of Con in Tennessee; tbe east side of it is in Virginia. Suppose there gress to be unconstitutional unless it is clearly so on its face. are two dealers in goods there that come under the terms of Every doubt is resolved in favor of its con~Stitutionality. If this act. The one on the west side is in Tennessee; the one on my recollection serves me correctly, I think the Supreme Court the east side is in Virginia. They are competitors in business. has said in several opinions that it would not inquire into the Now, the dealer on the east side would not be held to the penal intention or motive of Congress in pas ing the act. The real ties of this act if he did not have the guaranty, while the dealer que tion to be determined by the Supreme Court is not what on the west side, in Tennessee, would be-it being concerled for was the ultimate purpose of Congress in passing the act, but the purpose of the illustration that the factory is in Tennessee. had Congress the power to pass the act under the Constitution Does the Senator believe, or not, that that provisi<_>n violates of the United States? If you are going to inquire into ultimate section 2 of Article IV of the Constitution? That is the ques purposes, you are embarking on an anknown sea with no com tion. pass to guide you. Again, if the Supreme Court had given Mr. COLT. In reply to the Senator I will state that I have the commerce clause of the Constitution a narrow coru;truction, not sufficient knowledge of the subject to answer this particular it never would have fulfilled the great purposes for which it question. I have already said that I would not undertake to was designed. The commerci clause has probably done more, determine whether this statute might not be found to be repug under the broad construction which has been given to it by nant to the fifth amendment or some other provision of the Con the Supreme Court, to ma(ntain and develop our Federal form stitution. I must leave that phase of the subject undetermined. of government than any other provision in the Constitution. When a question of this kind comes up, it can not be argued I want to say, further, that the pending bill appears to me to here as it would be argued before the Supreme Court of the be an attempt to regulate commerce in the transportation of United States. articles from one State to another; that that power is clearly It is our duty, Mr. President, it seems to me, to go along gen confe~red upon Congress under the Constitution ; that the Su eral lines; and unless tbe act appears manifestly and clearly preme Court will not inquire into the motive which led Con unconstitutional, and especially when the act harmonizes with gress to pass the act; and that, unless this proposed statute the humanitarian tendencies of the people, it should be allowed violates some other provision of the Constitution, such as the to stand, subject, as it will be, to a more critical examination fifth amendment, it will be upheld as within the constitutional by the Supreme Court. power of Congress. Mr. GALLINGER. Mr. President, there are a great many Mr. President, we all know that under the fifth amendment empty seats in the Chamber. I suggest the absence of a the individual right of liberty and property may be encroached quorum. upon in a reasonable degree in order to promote the health. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The absence of a quorum is the morals, and the welfare of the community. It is impo sible suggested. The Secretary will call the roll. to define the exact limits to the exercise of this police power. The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators an Upon the face of this bill, however, I do not see that it would swered to their names : come within the prohibition of the fifth amendment.. Ashrust Galllnger Nelson Smoot 1\lr. President, I want to say one word more. Some Senators Bankhead Oroona Norris Bt~>rHng seem to be worried about the encroachment of the Federal Beckham Hitchcock OlivE-r Swanson Constitution upon the rights of the States. I do not think we Borah Hughes Ovt>.rman Taggart Brady James Pep rose Thomas have any just grounds for any such apprehension. When I Brandegee Johnson, S.Dak. Pittman Thompson look at the temper of the Senate, when I see Senators on one Bryan Jones Ransdell Ttl I man side and the other debating for days in the most able, pains Chilton Keyon RePd Townsend Clapp Kern RobioRon Warren taking, and conscientious manner the constitutionality of this act. Clark, Wyo. La Follette Sbafrotb Wt>Pks I realize that we need have no fear of the safety of our Fetleral Colt Lane · Sheppard Works institutions. Why, the whole organic law of Great Britain Cummins Lee, Md. 8blellls CurtiS Lewis Smith, Ga. rests upon the moral sentiment of Parliament. Parliament has Fletcher Lippitt Smith, S. C. the power to pass any law, but the moral sense of Parliament governs, and forbids it to pass any radical legislation. And Mr. TOWNSEND. I desire to announce the absence of my so, l\lr. President, the safety of our Federal institutions, the colleague [Mr. SMITH of Michigan}. He is paired with the question whether the National Government ~will swallow u~J junior Senator from Missouri [Mr. REED]. This announcement the rights of the States, rests in a large degree upon the public may stand for the day. s~ntiment and sound judgment of the Congress of the United :Mr. ROBINSON. I desire to announce that the junior Sena States. tor from Mississippi [Mr. VARDAMAN} is unavoidably absent from Mr. President, there may be a doubt about the constitution the Chamber on official business of the Senate. ality of this bill, but if it is not manifestly unconstitutional, Mr. CURTIS. I have been requested to announce that Sena and if it is just, if it meets the great humanitarian . senti tors SHERMAN, HARDlNG, \V ADS WORTH, and ou PoNT are engaged ment of the Nation, if it accords with our higher aspirations on important business. This announcement may stand for the toward social reform, let us pass it; and then, if subsequently day. · it should be shown, upon very careful investigation, to be Mr. LEWIS. I merely wish to announce that the senior Sena clearly in violation of the Constitution of the United Stat~ tor from Oregon [Mr-. CHAMBERLAIN} has been called from the we have, thank God, under our form of Government, a tribunal Chamber on important business. which will so declare it to be. Mr. ROBINSON. I desire to announce that the senior Sena Mr. BRYAN. Mr. President, before the Senator takes his tor from Ohio [Mr. PoMERENE] is unavoidably ab ent. seat I should like to ask him a question. The Senator stated The PRESIDING OFFICER. Fifty-three Senators have an that so far as the commerce clanse of the Constitution was con swered to their names. There is a quorum present. cerned, we would have power to pass this legislation unless 1\lr. TAGGART. Mr. President, on Monday, July 31, Mr. prohibited by some other clause On Monda~·. August 7, 1\Ir. Huglles made a public political The Senator from California [l\Ir. w·onRs] the other clay, a'"' speech in the cit~· of Detroit, 1\lich., but failed to answer any of I read in the REcono, made a reference ro my section that I the questions llropounded lJy the 37 gentlemen. For fear the hardly think the facts justifJ, and one that is scarcely worthy questions have not been called to his attention, I desire to read of the splendid character and attainments, of that Senator, when the questions into the RECORD. he said that the South was Willing to forego a strict interpre The PRESIDING OFFICER,. Without objection, the matter tation of the Constitution, providing the price was big ep.ouglt. referred to may be printed in the RECORD. Mr. President, my State, South Carolina, is second to Mas Tho matter referred to is as follows: sachusetts alone, if indeed she is second, in textile manufac THIRTY-SEVEN WRITERS .AND EDITORS FRAME A QUiz E'OR HUGHES. ture. For the last decade or two an influx of capital from Thirty-seven well-known editors and writers for American magazines abroad, as well as home capital, has built up a wonderful manu and ~unday newRpapers met at tho Hotel Biltmore yesterday and facturing indush·y in South Carolina. Without any threat of gave out, through George Creel, the following letter: Federal intervention, without any menace of Federal inter "To the Hon. CHARLES E. HUGHES: vention, my State holds the proud distinction of having perhaps "The professional writers who slgn this letter have small interest in parties but a very deep interest in democracy. It is our hope, the best law in reference to the manufacture of cotton goods through this voluntary association, to assist in the promotion of honest by child labor in the Union. In South Carolina it is a familv E.ducational discussion in order tha~ fundamental issues may not be affair. The officers and the operatives in the mills are largel~r decided in prejudices and ignorance.· "Mr. Wllson's beliefs have been expressed in law and in declared South Carolinians. These families are our own blood and bone, policies. He has made an open record, by which he may be judged. taken from less gainful occupations, put into the mill villages, Wise choice is not possible unless you yourself make equally specific and under the terms of our law they are furni hcd schools, the statement of purposes and convictions • . " Without intent to offend, we feel justified in charging that in no hours of labor are restricted, sanitary conditions are required, single publi<' utte1·ance have you filed a bona fide blll of particulars nor and a creditable supervision is maintained. In every State in have you offered a single constructive suggestion. the Union, according to tables submitted, there are laws more " DElHAND DETAILS. or less progressive in reference to this matter of child labor. "Personalities are without va.lue; blanket criticism is worthless. Now, tb,ere is not a man on this fioor-1 will not draw that What we des1re to know, what it is fair that the electorate should compal'ison; I have heard it so much that I am nauseated with know, are the exact dPtails of your disagreement with President Wil son. What has he done that you would not have done, and what bas it-but eYery right-minde law in South Carolina involved any noticeable increase in public of the Senate that there are not children who with a good, preparation for the .care of those who are unable to take care honest mother and father who are as dependent upon their own of themselves financially? efforta as though the mother and father were dead. It is a Mr. SMITH of South Carolina. I do not know that I am notorious fact that the poor families are the larger, and there prepared to answer that question. I see the Senator iS Indicat fore are more or less dependent upon the wages of their chil ing this query: As we have these restrictive laws in our State, dren as soon as they are large enough to help support the family. has the State made any preparation to take care of those to I state the further fact that under modern· conditions, such whom it denies the opportunity to labor? as are in my State, and I will not speak for any other, in our Mr. CLAPP. Not so much as to whether it has, but whether mill villages, in ow· mill schoolhouses and churches, under the this legislation bas resulted in the necessity for any additional restrictions of our law as to the hours of labor and the age, 90 or unusual care of the children? per cent of the children there have an infinitely better oppor Mr. SMITH of South Carolina. I think perhaps I can answer tunity than they have from the vocation in which they have that by saying that now there is quite a sentiment. that has come. become a plank in the local platforms of different aspirants for Surely we have not arrived at the period in our national and office, as to compulsory education-that is, they take the ground State life when every industry that seeks the channel of inter that the first essential for the proper discharge of the functions state commerce will be subject to the penalizing power of Con of citizenship is to be educated-and if the Senator will allow gress if that industry happens not to be conducted along lines me, rlght in that connection, while I think of it, in comparing that do not appeal to certain individuals removed far from the this taw-because I take it one illustration is worth an hour's State or plac·e where the work is being done. argument-to illustrate: In my State and in every other State there are local condi There is not a Senator who will not agree that education, the . tions that justify a thing which in another State would be training of the mind to think logically, truthfully, and con wholly unjustifiable. In my State the climate the year rolmd secutively, to be acquainted with the progress of the race, the is mild and there is no suffering to go to work at any hour. dangers that have been avoided and how they were avoided, With the climate in some of the Northern and Western States politically and socially and nationally, are essential to the it would be absotutely cruel to make an adult, much less a chil~ proper discharge of the functions of a citizen. Yet with the at certain hours go through the snow and the rigid cold to work. glaring illiteracy of certain States, the glaring indifferenee as Under those climatic influences longer hours may be sustained. to the educational facilities of different States, we have found In the South practically the year around the windows of the no one to advocate that there should be a Federal law compel factories are open, and it is as if the operatives were working ling the States to see that the children of all the States shall be in the open air; while in the North the buildings must be clo ed educated according to a rule laid down by National Govern and artificially heated. This naturally poisons the air and ment or as a ~nalty forbid the citizens of such States as fail makes long hours impossible. These conditions necessarily to comply the privilege and rights of citizens of America. give advantage to the southern manufaeturer over the northern Yet when you come to the question which lies underneath manufacturer. Therefore, you are attempting by the act of the question of education and upon which education is depend Congress to destroy this advantage and make equal and uniform ent you are attempting to force upon the State your idea of what by nature is not equal and uniform. I suppose that this the hours of labor and who shall labor. Buckle, in his History is one of the causes for the so insistent demand for the passage of Civilization, never said a truer thing than when he said of this bill. there are but three elements in the civilizing process and you Why do you not prescribe the textbooks, the qualification of never can divorce them-wealth, leisure, and learning. Deny the teachers, the hours that they shall teach, or penalize the the child the privilege of making a modicum of wealth and you State that does not come up to the ideas of Congress? deny to him the possibility of having something of wealth with I am not objecting nor did I rise to object to child-labor leisure, and without the wealth and the leisure you can not legislation. I have not attempted to say nor can anyone put have learning. it in my mouth that I am opposed to all beneficent legislation Now, to get back to the question before us, as I said in the guaranteeing to ri.ch and poor the kingdom of childhood and beginning-- the right to enjoy it. I believe my State is better qualified to .Mr. CLAPP. Will the Senator pardon an interruption here? give to its citizens and its own children those privileges t han .Mr. SMITH of South Carolina. I yield. is Congress ; but you want to invoke a principle which once Mr. CLAPP. The Senator comes from a State that has gone sustained by the Supreme Court, quibble as you may, split a long ways in this matter. In what way would the passage of hair as you have done, will destroy the independence and sov this law interfere with the law in South Carolina? · Would it ereignty of the State. The principle of this legislation is that go as far as the South Carolina law goes, or would it not go Congress bas the right to pro-hibit the channels of commerce as far? • to every commodity manufactured under conditions that do not Mr. SMITH of South Carolina. I am not concerned with that meet its sweet will. at all. I am concerned with the Federal Government interfer It does not define the channels of commerce. With the facili ing with my domestic affairs while I am working out the prob ties for transportation and communication and the marYelous lem as the Constitution gives me the right to do. I will answer divisions of labor incident to the progress of manufacture, what the Senator in this way. What I am opposed to in this bill is is it that· does not enter into interstate commerce? The chil its hypocritical plea that it is for the child. I would go as far dren that laugh in the fields as they gather the grain or pick as you go, and further than this bill goes. in helping the..o;e chil cotton are an essential part of the process that finally produces dren; but I do not propose to je()pardize State rights by ppening finished product that finds its way into the channels of com this Pandora's box and allowing the Federal Government to say merce. The child that prepares itself in our technical schools who shall work and under what conditions they shall work, pro to work the loom or to repair machinery is an es ential part vided the product of that work enters interstate commerce, unuer of the manufacturing process. The mother t11at cuts the gar the pain of being deprived the common carriers of the country. ment in the poor home, and tw·ns the machine that stitches Mr. CLAPP. I think the Senator misunderstood my inquiry, the seams, to clothe the child or the man, to enable him to go and yet I can readily see that be might have drawn the inference out to work, producing the raw material, is a concommittant from it that be dld. It was not asked in the spirit in which the and essential part of the machinery that produces the manu Senator, I think, thought, and be is excusable from the form of factured article that enters into commerce. the question in placing that construction on it. What I meant Your argument is that this is for a specific case. The case may more particularly is this: We are all fairly familiar with this be specific, but the principle invoked is as universal as human bill and I was seeking more to get a general broad comparison endeavor; and what is the need for it? It is not like the lottery between the bill and the law of. South Carolina. case, where the States were totally incompetent to grapple Mr. SMITH of South Carolina. Specifically I think the law with it. In that case we invoked this principle in behalf. of ,of South Carolina is infinitely superior to this. This simply humanity and civilization, and denied the right to use the mails, denies the child the right to work and does not propose a single as the States were incompetent to grapple with it. It was the thing in lieu thereof. It gives him no alternative. It does not province of the Federal Government to stop the channels of say we deny you the right to work, but we are going to see trade to a thing that was detrimental to every person who that you are educated, and we will put up the money to see it toucbed it. done. We are going to see that you have a vocational educa The same is true in the white-slave trade. I heard the Sena tion, so that when you arrive at the age of responsibility, after tor from Idaho [1\fr. BoRAH] drawing a nice comparison be you pass your immature period, you will be equipped to go into tween a child coming in conjunction with or touching the article some gainful occupation. You simply say that the child shall of commerce, in the eyes of the taw polluting the commerce, and not work, and then leave it to whom to say whether or not he the Innocent victim transported for immoral pw·poses coming in shall be educated? You can not deny the fact here on the floor contact with the one who would. degrade her. One was wholly 1916. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE~ 12289 within the jurisdiction of the State and the other was wholly statement I understood him to make. The Senator from 1\Iinne within the jw·isdiction of the State. The analogy is far-fetched sota [Mr. CLAPP) asked the Senator from South Carolina and unworthy of a legislator. It is a poor attempt to compare whether there were any exemptions in the South Carolina the incomparable. The poor victim contaminated by seduction statutes as to the work of orphan children. is a firebrand forever and is at liberty to travel where she may. Mr. Si\IITH of South Carolina. I said I was not familiar The child located within the State does not even, under this bill, with it; that my attention bad not been called to it. -become a thing of commerce or a polluted and degraded object Mr. ROBINSON. My information is that there are no such that is transmitted from one State to the other. You claim·there exemptions. Furthermore, the statute of South Carolina has a is a kind of moral miasma or malaria produced by child labor 60-hour limitation. in factory that somehow is mysteriously borne to far distant Mr. SMITH of South Carolina.· I wish to state, if the Senator States affecting them disastrously. No sensi~le man takes any from Oregon will aJiow me, that I think it is to the credit of such view of it. my State that it really makes no such exemption. I think But we do know that a poor unfortunate prostitute, traveling those children are entitled to every consideration that other from State to State, is a firebrand. We do know that lottery children· are entitled to. tickets awakes and intensifies the gambling spirit. Transmitted :Mr. ROBINSON. I agree with the Senator from South Caro from one State to the other produce a disastrous effect. We do lina, and that is the reason why I asked him the question. know that a misbranded article in interstate commerce that de Mr. LANE. Mr. President, · the last remark made by the ceives the purchaser is disastrous in its effect. But in the name Senator from South Carolina [Mr. SMITH] before be was of reason and common sense who will claim that a man in the questioned by the Senator from Arkansas [Mr. RcBINSON] State of Washington buying a shirt made out of South Carolina interested me. He said in a general way that if this bill be manufactured cotton is morally debased because a child carried came a law the year 1916 would mark an epoch and the parting water in the factory where it was inade? of the ways; that the interference of the General Government Now, what is the use for us to be so absurd? But I will admit in the affairs of the States in this matter would be in the that this bill should stand if the States in the Union had no nature of a calamity. I do not know just what crisis the power to correct th~ evil if, as has been said by some, tlre qui v Senator had in mind when he made that remark. When we look ering flesh and bones of the children were being ground in order over the country, however, we find such a condition to exist that to squeeze out dividends for some southern stockholder. There if this bill were in any way to·ameliorate or change it it would is not a word of it true I say ; but if it was true, and if my State indeed mark an epoch and the parting of the ways, and it aided and abetted thi fictitious demon who was grinding the would be a good and profitable parting of some of the ways for flesh and bones of children .under the guise of law, I do not know the people of this country. but what I woulrt forego any fear I might have for the appHca Sixty-five per cent of the people of this country, it is said, do tion of this principle to the State. But it is not so. The pro not own one inch of the earth's surface. They are without ponent of this bill, the gentleman from Iowa [1\lr. KENYON], means, they are without any financial or landed interest in the read into the RE<"ORD the fact that every State in this Union has Government. By our method of government, under the Consti a child-labor law except only two or three. tution then we have arrived at a condition of affairs where the Have we gotten to the pass that in our own domestic affairs majority of the people have no more tangible interest in the in the States the moral sense of the State as a unit is not more welfare of this country than a Chinaman ; they have a senti than the moral sense of unit representation here? Let the gen mental attachment, perhaps, to the place wherein they were tlemen who are so loud mouthed in their advocacy of a remedy born, a kindly feeling for their neighbors, but they have no for poor suffering childhood, which is not invoked in this bill, material interest whatever. A government which was conducted go back borne and start a crusade within their State which in the interests of Its people, if it was a good government, would would remove the necessity of such legislation. so manage its affairs that a fair majority at least of the people I shall not pretend to say what the conditions are in some would be reasonably successful and not homeless or landless. States.. for I do not know. I can only speak for my State, and I do not think we would have anything to regret if we parted I state h~re positively that it has been progressive. From the the ways, if the parting betters bad conditions. time manufacture started in South Carolina step hy step we have So far as the Constitution is concerned. if under the Consti kept pace with the manifestation of a necessity for legislation to tution which was handed down to us by our forefathers, if the protect children. What I claim for my State is I believe true of general condition of the people and of the country has not bene every State, but the final plea that I am making before this fited and it is never to go on in a way which will be of benefit body is this: I will grant YQU that a fire in a chimney-is a good to the majority of the people under its terms the Constitution is thing, It is necessary for the warmth and comfort of the inhabi anything but a sacred document, and fails to appeal to me. tants, hut I have very little respect for the judgment of a man I have this much respect for it. So long as it answers the who will set his house on fire and burn it down in order to get needs of the people and guards and protects the general inter warm. e:t and welfare of the people of the country who have to live We have every facility under the State law to protect the under it, it is a good Constitution, a good organic act, and I children of thnt State, and we are doing it. The thing that I am willing to live under it. But the minute and just as soon fear and dread is, if you have the right to divorce manufacture and as long as it stands in the way of and is an interference from its local and domestic qualities and to connect it up with with the prosperity and happiness of the people of the country, the finiRhed article when it enters interstate commerce, and then then that soon would I alter it to the extent that was necessary by invoking the power of this Government to prohibit, and to make it meet the needs of the people of the country. through prohibition to penalize the industries of a State, until In respect to child labor, if it was found that with the it shall rto as Congress says it shall do, then all incentive to local methods of working children, the children of the poor between protection has been removed and State rights destroyed. the tender ages, say, of 3 or 4 years and the ages of 14 or 16, In conclusion I say it is a mere matter of theory, but there if such employment acts to deteriorate the child's health and is not a Senator on the floor of the Senate who believes that the impinge upon his or her physical condition or lowers his Constitution, as we now love It and revere it, would ever have vitality, either mentally. morally, or physically, such employ become the organic law of the land if those who framed 1t ment is an evil, nor do I care what State tolerates it nor dreamed that the carefully guarded delegated power granted to whether it is or is not confined to one State alone. If it causes it would have been so misinterpreted, and the false ideas of children to become weak in their constitutions to the extent som£> humanitarians be invoked, to the undoing of the State in that they do not grow into good, healthy, vigorous men and its rights. It nPver would have been ratified. women, prepared to carry on functions of the race or the affairs I would infinitely rather see the children of my State suffer of the Nation to the best interests of the Nation; if the girls some of the e evils that have been portrayed than to see their are unfitted to become ideal mothers, if you please, not just rigl1ts as citizens of the State uestroyed. I do not want some plain ordinary mothers, but good, healthy, vigorous mothers Federal officer poking his nose in the domestic afra.irs of my of healthy, vigorous children; and if it lowers the -v:tality of State. the future fathers of children yet unborn so th.l.t the general I repeat, I am in favor of child-labor legislation, but I predict average of the health of the people of this country becomes that the passage of this bill in the year 1916 will mark that lowered below a fair and reasonable standard, it affects the turning point in the dual form of our government, which means interest of every other State in the Union. It is not confined the absolute undoing of the splendid system upon which has been to that State, and no- State has the right to rear back on its built up the wonderful civilization, progress, and power that we heels and demand its State rights privilege of continuing a now have. course which will prove a bllgbt on the Nation, brought on, it 1\-lr. LANE obtained the floor. you please, upon other States where they have a higher sense l\Ir. ROBINSON. Before the Senator from South Caroli.na of responsibility to the Nation at large and adopt and follow ·takes his seat I wish to ask him one question in reference to a better standards. 12290 CONGRESS! ON .L\_L RECORD-SENATE. AUGUST 8,_ Personally, I do not care what the Constitution says about it. who carry water in the coal mines, and he with great glee ac. The arguments indulged here regarding the difference which cepted the answer that it would do so. It would interfe.re with exists between tweedledee and tweedledum in respect to the boys carrying water in a coal mine, and it ought to interfere powers of the Constitution when a condition exists where chit· and prevent boys from working hundreds of feet underground dren are called upon to render up in their youth the vitality in a tunnel. The Senator said he bad never worked in a tunnel. which they will need in other years, in old age, in mature age, When I was a young fellow I never worked on a farm, but I to the general disadvantage of the entire Nation, do not interest did work for one season in a mine, part of the time in a tunnel. me. If the States are not big enough and brave enough and The ventilation is bad; it is wet underfoot and it is damp over· , honest enough to the Nation and with themselves to make that head. It is nv place to put a child 14, 15, or 16 years old. You change, then the General Government, as a matter of self-de can not develop a child lnto a healthy, grown human being un fense, should, as a duty, step in and say to them, "Here, we der such conditions. Child1·en need plenty of food, but as much will take this over for the general benefit of the entire commu as they need that they need fresh air and sunshine .md a chance nity." The individual sacrifices his personal rights and for to grow into normal human beings, with a fair, decent, just sake of peace allows the law to rule over him; he no longer chance to acquire strength to resist the invasion of disease in takes his six-shooter or his bowie knife, as they did in the later life. good old days, and settle it with you on the street corn~r. and The trouble with the mills-although I have ha ·tion to the condition ·of ·some of those Indians. It sh~ul-d have .court and fine whittlings of law points here and th:e interptre ·.been, ·a-nd no doubt was, ur 'it ought to 'have been. brought to ' tation of somebody of long ago who knew not what the country the attf'ntion of thiB gentleman who was the honorary presi- was coming to er what this day wouh:i bring forth. '-Oent of nn association whiCh purported to look out for their I now ask that the report to which I have referred be -printed rights. I want to 'inc-orporate this Teport in the REcoRD as entire in connection with my remarks. j)art of my Temarks. The writer -shows-and he is an intelU- The PRESIDING OFFICER. .Without objection, 1t is so :gent, eap.ab1e ·man, -and I know ·enou:gh about medicine and the ordered. 1:acts to know that be tells the truth, for f was upon this reser- ~e lett-er refer.red to is '3:S follows: 'Vatian myself-that 1f tbe methodE now ·employed are not done DEP..ARTli1E~T OF THE l :N'TEmoRJ _away with, ·if ·t;hey are ,not 1·adically -ehanged, the end iB tn UNITED 'STATEs INIHA.N .SERVICE, sight, anCl within -a few years every one of these wards -o-1' the .Bt.ACKFEET AtlENCY, 'Government will be dea-d from some disease -whieh be never Bt·own-tnu~ Mont.., January 'tl, 1916. •Should ·have -contra-c~ and would ·not have contracted under .Co~niissiONER OF INDIAN ..AFFA.t'Rs, ~nytbing 1ike an honest and -intelligent .. management of himself TV,.atrhingtan. D. 0. ~# • M b f 1 di f ·11 f th -SIR: I beg to snbmit the .lollowlng report on medical conditions of and h is Ullalrs. em ers o ' n an ami es, -some 0 em 'the natives of the .Blackfeet BeservatioD ·with suitable recommenda- That new cabins be erected for full bloods and bed clothing sup plied to take the place of those needing immediate tlestruction by fire. Senator claims to exist. Of course, I suppose that that applies That the physicians receive the pay and recognition accorded them in · only to a small portion of tl1e Indians. I have been told that the Unit<>d States Public Health Service, so that competent surgeons very many of the Indians are exceedingly rich and that they do and medical officers can be obtained and induc~d to remain. Very respectfully, not need the benefactions of the Government, but even if a CLIFTON MEARS ROSIX, small proportion of them are in the condition the Senato1· has · Agency Physician. pictured there certainly ought to be some remedy for it. Mr. TILLMAN obtained the floor. We of New England know but little about the Indian ques :Mr. GALLINGER. Mr. President, before the Senator from tion. When the late Senator Dawes, of Massachusetts, was con South CarPlina proceeds, I de:::.'ire to ask the Senator from Ore- nected with the Committee on Indian Affairs he took a very deep gon a quPstion before he leaves the Chamber. · interest in the subject; and when the late Senator Platt, of Mr. TILLMAN. I yield to the Senator for that purpose. Connecticut, was connected with the Committee on Indian Af 1\Ir. GALLINGER. I want to ask the Senator from Oregon fairs, he Jikewise took a deep interest in the subject; but I do a question before he retires. When the bill to which the Sena- not know really very much about it myself, and I think the tor called attention was before the Senate the other day I in people of my section of the country know so little about it that troduced the letter from Bon. Joseph H. Choate which is found they would like to be informed. in the RECORD of that day's proceedings. l\lr. Choate, as I un The Senator, I think, introduced a bill to abolish the Office derstand, is connected with an organization which is supposed of Indian Affah·s. Is that because the Senator thinks the present to care for the Indians, or at least to inquire into their condi commissioner is incompetent-- tion and recommend methods of amelioration. Mr. LA.l~E. No; no more or less than others who preceded l\fr. President, the Senator from Oregon paints a terrible pic him. ture of the horrible condition and suffering of at least a portion 1\!r. GALLINGER. Or is not attending to his duties? 0~ of the Indians who are supposed to be wards of the F~deral does the Senator think there is a better way of administering Government. I will ask the Senator if the Commissioner of the affairs of those poor people? - Indian Affairs and the two committees of Congress are not Mr. LANE. I think there is a better way of administering inquiring into and- looking after those conditions with a view their affairs. The system. is wrong. The present commis of making them better? It seems to me almost incredible that sioner, I think, is doing probably about as well and about the the conditions the Senator has painted can be true. If they same as ap.y who has preceded him, and is doing probably as are true, certainly we owe tne Indians a duty that we ought well as anyone who will succeed him, but the system has grown not to shirk, but that we ought to perform without fear and into an institution and is an expensive and heartless humbug. without hesitation. Now, let me read a few brief extracts from a report by an Mr. LA..~E. Mr. President, I wish to say, in reply to the intelligent and competent physician connected with the Indian Senator, that if the detail were made to me singly to alleviate Service, to which I have already referred. He says: and cure the condition of the Indians of this country, I would During my year's work with the nati\es I ha\e traveled approxi- not want a bett£::r heh1er than the Senator from New Hamp mately 1,800 miles- . shire, if once he saw the conditions which exist. This report is dated January 21, 191'6. I know the Senator did not introduce the letter to which ref Mr. CLAPP. From what reservation is it written? erence bas been made with any design to discredit anyone, but Ur. LANE. It is written from Browning, Mont., the Black the conditions to which I have alluded have continued to exist feet Agency. I will say, in passing, that anyone familiar with for years and years under all administrations. The present the conditions could have truthfully written such a report as Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and his predecessors no doubt, this at any time during the last 20 years, perhaps, but 50 years · have been kept submerged by a mass of detail. With thousands ago the same condition did not exist. I know the history of the of employees under him the commissioner is unable to supervise Blackfeet Indians. My people mined in the Blackfeet country. the Indians individually, and is fed upon talk from his subordi They were then buffalo-eating Indians; they were mountain nates o! the great improvement that is going on and that he is Indians, and were healthy, sound, able-bodied men and women. making; he gets the bighead, and therefore, I think, does not Now, then, the writer says: realize or discover the actual conditions. I do not believe that I have truveleu approximately 1,800 miles by horse, visiting the the majority of those controlling Indian affairs are dishonest, various homes- but I think the system is wrong. The system which they have inherited and adopted and hug to their bosoms proclaims that ! would not be surprised, I will interject here, if the publica the Indian must learn to be self-supporting, and then handles his tion of this report may lose this physician his job. Publicity affairs in such a way that he can not do it. Their theory is right given to a report of this kind is not relished by the Indian Bu and proper on the face of it. It soundS all right to say when a...1 reau, and it may lose the physician his place; but if there is Indian appeals for something to eat, "Go to ·.vork and earn it," any move of that kind made, however, I am going to ask the "In the sweat of your brow," and so forth, but he can get no Senate, and I am going to ask the Senator from New Hampshire work ; he has not a hoe nor a pick, nor a 10-cent piece to buy one especially, to help protect this man and to see to it that he is with, nor does he get even a package of congressional garden not remo\ed for telling these truths. seed to raise a crop of turnips as a food supply in order that he During my year's work with the natives I have traveled approxi mately 1,800 miles by lwrse, visiting the various homes and 'lllminister may live during the winter. ing to the sick, and have had occasion to furnish 4,000 t>eparate treat That condition has gone on year after year. Members of the ments during this time. My trips have taken me to practi<:ally ail por Senate and of the other House are submerged with a vast mass tions of the reservation, both in summer and in winter. The portion of the reservation north of Browning is inhabited mostly by mixed blood&. of work, and, as in connection with this bill, by considerations of The reserve to the south of Browning includes the major portion of the constitutionality. Long argumer.ts and speeches, many of them, full bloods. The full-blood population of this rest>rvation for 1915 ts lasting hours, have been made, "ith no two Senators agreeing estimated at 1,224 and those more than one-half blood at 1,147. 1 0 1 upon the issue, until we are buried in details, immaterial, if you c. L~~u~hto Pf~!s~~~v~ f~f~~g~~~n~ab l~~PonF th~ir ~!~~:r t~~?. o~up.!: please, in the long run, to the people of this country, in my spection. From that trip and my year's experience I conclude that 00 opinion. In the meantime little ~hildren are working, their per cent of the full bloods are sutiering from trachoma- Jittle fingers bleeding, stringing beans in the canning factories An incurable eye disease- in the sweltering heat under which we are suffering now, a beat and perhaps 75 per cent are sutiering from various stages of tuller- that melts our collars; they are working in the cotton factories, ~~dL " North and South, wherever they are located, while our atten Due, if you please, in large part to a lack of sufficient nourish tion is distracted. ing food and fresh au· to enable them to repel it. . The condition has gone on. I have called attention to it many Thil-l estimate at 11rst seemed impossible or unfair, but when, coll times since I have been here, and tried to butt a hole in the sidering how those suffering from these highly infectious diseases con stone wall, but have probably failed to make much impression gregate like cattle--men, women, and children, young and old-in mostlJ one-room cabins, without sanitary provisions of any kind, Ut>ing tho on it, but in. a way have brJlised my hea ·below zero 1n the winter, and they congregate to keep from experience, never having been a farmer, naturally would fall · freezing. when you put him right up against the one thing which he is Mr. STERLING. Mr. President-- sure to fail at and at which many others fail; and be did fail. The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. BRYAN in the chair). Just the other day you passed, and to-day you confirmed, the Does the Senator from Oregon yield to the Senator from South conference report on the bill raising a lot of troops to protect Dakota? the Mexican border, militia from all over the country, some -· Mr. LANE. I do. going to the front without proper shoes, I am told, and with all Ur. STERLING. I should like to ask the Senator from kinds of inefficient preparation. _Ot~egon to what tribe of Indians that applies? If the Government had understood the Indian, and had taken Mr. LlliE. I am talking now of the Piegans, commonly him and put him in the Cavalry, a roving cavalry similar to ca11ed Blackfeet. the Arabs, you would have had a body of men that are born Mr. STERLING. Then the letter from which -the Senator fighter!:l, that can Hve off the country, and that would have ·· reads does not refer to conditions generally among the Indians? been able to protect this country from any Mexican invasion Mr. LANE. No; but I say it is rather characteristic, and or any other, without drafting one white man, and we would you wi11 find the same condition elsewhere in many places- have had a healthy race of people. You would have- had people some worse and some better. whose families would have been healthy, and incidentally you : Mr. STERLING. I just want to say, Mr. President, · that I could have given him some sort of education; you could have think the picture is a little bit overdrawn so far as the Inrlians rented his land out to the whites who do know bow to use it, in South Dakota are concerned. We have about 20,000 Indians and have some sort of a property left for him when he re in that State; and while perhaps their condition is not of the turned from protecting the country against invasion. But you best, and it might be greatly improved, yet it is not so deplor- have put him to farming; and if you had put me to farming at able as bas been pictured by the Senator's correspondent. the same time you did the Indian, I would have eaten "\'our Mr~ LANE. No; I think it is not. He is not reporting on oxen, too, and I would have quit your farm. I would have'pre- , South Dakota. ferred to do somethiilg else. I would not have made a success · Mr. STERLING. -Let me say further that as to poverty of it, and most people do not. among the Indians, no such condition exists as is there de- Now, I will go on and read further from this report. It does scribed. They have their allotments of land, and in addition not refer to Minnesota or South Dakota. I think the condition td that, of course,' nearly every Indian has his interest or share is not any too gooll in Minnesota. The Chippewas have been -in the tribal funds, and these are allotted- to him from time here, and also I have a Jot of corespondence from them. If the ·to tirrie'; so that there is comparatively little poverty. You Set;1ator is interested in knowing what the Chippewas think of rarely hear of an Indian that is deprived of the necessities of the management of their affairs, I will read some of these let life, either in the way of food or of clothing, because of lack of ters into the RECORD; but I am not, on that subject now. 1 am means to purchase them. - reading about one set of poor people and there are others Mr. LANE. I am quite willing to concede that their condi- equally unfortunate, and I can bring the evidence here to tion is better in the State in part represented by the Senator; prove it. This is the report of a physician on one ~ecial reser but his colleague I think will inform him. if he Will iuquire of vation. It is a truthful report, and I can verify it and stand · him, that those Inaians have been swindled and robbed out of ready to do it, for I have been on that reservation. I have not their property in many diffet·ent ways. I was calling attention been upon the Chippewa Reservation. to a condition which can exist under the Constitution. I was He says: ·merely quoting this instance-a true one--for the reason that I am sincere in my endeavors to put these conditions before you · the bill of mine, which in part was for the relief of these peo- !n a proper lig~t, for unless soll}ething substantial, something adequate · pie, was C'riticized by Mr. Choate. IS done for the1r welfare that w1IJ fully meet the needs wb.at is the use 1\'[r. NELSON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to me? ~~v~l~n~~~df~~r t~~~ fo~~~e welfare, for without the tenant we will The PUESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Oregon How long can this wholesale infection last? Bow long wiU it be yield to the Senator from Minnesota? before au .of thf' full bloods bl'e entirely blind or hopelessly tubercular? J.\Ir. LANE. I yield to the Senator. Tht> question that naturally arises is what shall we do and how can we Mr. NELBON. I want to say to the Senator from Oregon, remedy this deplorable condition? and also to the Senator from New Hampshire, that we have a And then he goes on to give ..lis idea of what that shall be. large number of Chippewa In<.!ians in the northern part of our I have merely called attention to this as an illustration of the State. They occupy a reservation there known as the White manner in which the Government, nuder the Con~titution has Earth Re5ervation, which con~ists of some of the finest agri- managed the affairs of a helpless· people who are depriv~l of cultm·al lanrls in the State. They have larg-e allotments marle their rights -and even their lives under it, and are forbicl1len to them of 160 acres each, but tbey do not get along, for the to employ an attorney to go into court to defend them. What reason that the~r will not work. Instead of working and im- will they do to the whtte children if it means a profit to treat proving their allotments and cultivating them, they lease them them in the same way? We are deteriorating and destroying, out to the white settlers there, om! tht:>y are landlords. They and, in _fact, we have deteriorated and have nearly destroyed will not do any work, but they hang aroupd and do a little the Indians of this country-a hardy native race--and we will Jmntin~ und trupping and wait for their· annuities every year. do the same to the children of the white race and to the colored You will find very few of them that have taken hold to improve race if the General Government is denied the power to step in their farms or to do any real work. The misfortune of those at any time that it is necessary to do so and stop the deadly Indians is that they are utterly unwilling to work. What little work and lift off the blight that bears down on their young work they do is done py the women, not by the men. · lives and makes them inefficient and defective when they come Mr. LANE. Mr. President, in response to the Senator I will to the age of maturity. I have no great amount of patience say that the male Indian never did work. He was never taught with the mincing of words as to whether or not the lives of -to work. He was a hunter. He was a warrior. He considered children can be measured and parceled out under the terms of it beneath b.im to work. Now, the wise gentlemen who have the Constitution. managed the affair'3 of this country and have managed the affairs 1\fr. OVERMAN. Mr. President, bas not the General Govern- of the Indian, not recognizing that fact, overlooking the fact ment control over these poor Indians? that the Indian for thousands of years has be~n a communist, l\lr. LANE. Oh, yes; the General Government has control ' that he never worked, that he lived by the chase and by war, over them. slapped him on a farm and told him to get busy and make a Mr. OVERMAN. Who is to blame for all this, then? living, when he did not know how to do it, and they did not Mr. LANE. Oh, Congress is to blame--the Senator himself, : teach him or furnish him seed; they did not even give him a hoe. and myself, and the rest of us. Mr. NELSON. If the Senator will yield for just one word Mr. OVERMAN. I am not on the Indian Affairs Committee. there. In our State they gave the Indians oxen with which to Mr. LA.l~E. We make laws here, and bureaus flout the laws __ cultivate their lands, and they butchered the oxen and ate them. we make. The bureaus m;e running this Government. Con- Mr. LANE. To be sure. Any Indian would do it, and they gress is not running· it. Congress gets up and talks bravely , might have known it. If they had given him a ·span of deer nbout its functions and privileges, and then a little bureau • or buffalo, he would have eaten them quicker if he was hungry, official ·down town somewhere says what really shall be done, __ because that is what he had always lived on. He had not t~aised and it is done as he prescribes. ~ potatoes and corn and other vegetables and knew nothing about Mr. OVERMAN. ·I agree with the Senator. The Senator - ~arming; yet they put him to farming and gave him oxen and has been on the Indian Affairs Committee, however. I am __ turned him loose on the raw soil, the handling of which hE:' knew not on it. -~ not_bing about. The majority of the white farmers of this I M1·. J,ANE. Well, I ha\e been busy since I have-been on that • country make but a bare living farming, and an Indian with no committee. .;12294 CONGRESSIONAL PJ}OORD--SEN~L\_TE. AUGUST 8, . 1\lr. OVERl\I.AN. And I think the Senator ought to find the of the country would be not less complete than Berlin's over all of remedy to take ·care of these btind children. Germany. Give the sentimentalists free rein, and they will make Mr. 'LANE. I put in a bill to remedy it, and I br-ought down a despotism of this country. The present-day professional "up criticism upon the remedy I presented, which I thought was lifters of humanity " are the counterparts of the old abolitionists. :a fairly good one, and that is w.hy I have discussed the subject Those fanatics, honest and well-meaning as they were, uecillred at this time. the Constitution was "a league with death and a co>euant with Mr. 'TILLl\IAN. l\Ir. President, before I begtn my speech, I hell," and their twentieth century successors indorse the state want to say I am glad the Senator from Oregon has found ment by acts if not in words. The fanaticism of the abolitionists something new to excite the sympathies of Senators besides the at last resulted in the Civil War, which drenched the country poor Children in the southern cotton mills. with blood-a result which ought to warn those who to-day Mr. President. during the last few days I have received lightly disregard constitutional limitations. numerous letters and telegrams from cotton-mill owners in But, as I have said, if we are going to tear up the Constitu South Carolina.. all asking me to defeat the K~ing bill, if pos tion, making it a "mere scrap of paper,'.' let us at least have sible, .and if not, that I get .an amendment added making the the act produce some good results. For my part, I shall vote bill inoperative for three years. I have stated before that I against the final passage of the bill, but I shall do all I can by was opposed to tl1is bill and have given the reason for my op way of amendments to make it really effective should it become position, but I want the cotton-mill owners specially and the a law. With this end in view. I introduced some time ago an public generally to understand that if I believed that Congress amendment to deny interstate shipment to goods manufactured had the _right to legislate on the subject of child 'labor, I would Ly children under 16 years of age who could not read and write. beartily favor its doing so. A provision of this kind would force parents to give their chil 1\fy position iR thiR : Congress has no power to legislate on dren at least the rudiments of an education by the time they child labor unl-ess it usurps it; but if it determines to act re were 16 years of age and put them in school instead of in the gardless of constitutional limitations, it ought to act effectively. cotton mills. The quibbUng antl selfishness of cotton-mill owners make me It is not easy for me to oppose a bill which proposes to abolish almost willing to votE> .fnt• the Keating hill despite my honest child labor, and I want to put in the HECORD the reasons that conv.ktion of its unconstitutionality-and I have so told them in impel me to do it. I am simply old-fashioned enough to believe my replies to their letter ~ . The reasons they advance against that the United States Government is one of delegated powers. the measure lead me to think that they oppose it, not because it and that what it can and can not legally do is laid down in the sets a bad and dangerous precedent but because it reduces their Constitution. 1 am aware that this belief is fast becoming ob dividemlR. I have heen ~hocked to see men in South Carolina solete-in practice if not in theory-but I still cling to it. be· rich. intelli~ent, well-educated men-who were \\'illing to swell lieving that the future happiness of the people of this Republic · their " The judiciary of t"he United States is the subtle corps of sap Mi·. HITCHCOCK. Well, Mr. President, it is true that tbis pers and miners constantly working underground to undermine is an indirect method ; but, as the Senator from Iowa [Mr. the foundations of our confE>dE>rated fabric." If Congress passes CUMMINsl pointed out this morning, and as we all know, many the bill, I have no doubt that the Supreme Court will declare of the very best acts of Congress-acts which the Senator from it constitutional, for the "sappers and miners" will never South Carolina has, I t4,ink, voted for in some cases-have refuse to profit by the attack of the infantry. been indirect legislation; because only in that way, under the The Constitution has been so closely invested by the insiduous strict terms· of ow· Constitution, could they be enacted. More work of the " pioneers " tllat a frontal assault by all the forces over, the fact that this legislation is indirect is no argument of centralization may well be successful. The Supreme Cow·t against its enactment. The question is, Is it right? The ques alone, in my opinion, will finally " press us into one consolidated tion is, Is it in accordance with the popular ·sentiment of the mass," but I want to put off what looks like the inevitable as United States? The question is whether· it is in the interests long as possible, so I shall vote against fhe Keating bill. The of humanity. The question is whether it is for the good of the. courts may at last reach the treasurers of our liberties by the coming generations that little children should be permitted to use of skeleton keys, but Congress ought not to go to their aid ruin their lives by working in the factories overhours nnd with a crowbar and burst in the doors. under adverse conditions. Some Senators who feel like I do on this subject say they Mr. TILLMAN. That is the old higher-law doctrine which will give the children the benefit of the doubt, but my con we heard in the fifties and which brought on the war. science will not permit me to do that, as much as I would like 1\Ir. HITCHCOCK. And it will probably be heard a good to. It is not a matter of expediency or wisdom or unwisdom, deal hereafter. The people of the United States have a great but constitutional Law is involved. For the life of me, I can respect for the Constitution. The people of the United Slates not see how anyone who can read the English language and have not hesitated, however, to amend the Constitution when understand it can for a moment argue that the interstate com it became necessary to do so. If the Supreme Court in this merce clm:se of the Constitution gives Congress the power neces case shall decide that this law is unconstitutional, I think it is sary to enact this bill into law. If Congressmen and Senators a fair guess that the people will amend the Constitution so as continue to yield to organized labor and play politics in dealing to bring it within the power of Congress. with it, being afraid of their politi~al scalps, heaven only The evil of child labor in factories, Mr. President, is a great knows what this country will come to in time. one. It is not an evil which is confined to the United States. We have ceased to legislate in the way we know to be right It is an evil whlch has been grappled with by the legislatures and have become panderers to public opinion, or rather are mak of all civilized nations. The States are not the only authority ing a cowardly surrender to those who vote and demand these which should have an interest in this matter. Every one of things. I predict tn time that a law will be passed making it these children is not only a citizen of the State, but is to be a unlawful for anything to enter interstate commerce that is not citizen of the United States. The Nation has an interest desired by the vote of labor unions. Not in these exact words, in his growth and in his mental and physical development. but the idea I mean to convey. If Congress can determine that 1\1.r. President, it was a sad commentary on the destructive goods made by children can not be shipped between States, then Congress can pass a law to the effect that goods shall not tendency of life in our industrial centers that when recruiting be shipped between States if they are made by blind people ; stations were recently opened for the Army of the United and equally other absurd provisions will grow up. I am only States it was found necessary to reject three out of every speaking of these two as the most absurd I can think of, and four ·men who offered to enlist. A physical examination proved each Senator for himself will find illustrations just as un them to be defective and unfit for military service, although reasonable and unjust as these would be. they were young men. . I wish we could stop the insidious process now, but we can England, in her experience, found that in her industrial not. But I shall at least have the satisfaction of knowing centers there had been a great deterioration of human life as that I had nothing to do with furthering the surrender of our the result of life in the factory centers, Largely the result of constitutional rights and liberties. child labor. The people of the United States have made up Mr. HITCHCOCK. Mr. President, the Senator from South their minds, the people of all parties have made up their minds. Carolina [Mr. TILLMAN] assumes that the chief .interest. be that if it is possible to put a stop to destructive child labor it hind this bill is :he demand of labor. I think he has entirely shall be done. The people of the United States have made up misjudged the public sentiment of the United States in reach their minds that the making of healthy citizens is more valuable ing that conclusion. It is true that labor naturally objects to than the manufacture of cotton, more important than the the competition of little children, underpaid and overworked, manufacture. of woolen goods, and more to be desired than the and I believe that labor has a legitimate right to make that prosperity of our industries. They have made up thei.l• minds to objection. But there is in this country a much larger senti Clrow around the children of the United States the best con ment, a much more disinterested sentiment, which has resolved ditions that are possible, and I believe that it is the response to to put a stop forever to the abuse of children in thE:. United this demand which bas led Congress to undertake this rather States by abolishing the conditions which bava forced them extraordinary legislation. into the factories and mines of industry. . I am glad, Mr. President, that the result of the considera Mr. President, 1t seems to me that the evil of chlld labor in tion of the committee to which this bill was referred was that factories is one which can reasonably be said to be beyond the a majority of the committee reached the conclusion that the power of a State to remedy. bill was constitutional. I am glad that the measure as finally Mr. TILLMAN. Why so? reported by the committee contains such amendments to the Mr. HITCHCOCK. I will proceed to tell the Senator. When original House bill as largely to increase the chance of its eve~: a Iegislatw·e undertakes by legislation to protect the chil constitutionality. dren in its factories or in its mines, it is met with the objec I feel myself, I have felt all the time, in strong sympathy with tions of powerful interests within that State-- the purposes of the legislation, and I rejoice that the discussion Mr. TILLMAN. And the politicians are cowardly enough to here has cleveloped the fact that the very best lawyers in surrender in the States, like they are going to do here. .Public life, the best lawyers in Congress, have given their Mr. HITCHCOCK. And in many cases those interests have opinions that this act of Congress will be held constitutional been able, in coming before the legislature, to s·how that if by the Supreme Court. child labor is legislated against in that particular State the Mr. President, it seems to me that this act, if passed by industries of that Sta te would ·suffer by reason of the cheaper the -present Congress, will be a fitting climax to the record competition from other States where child labor is permitted made by this administration in constructive legislation and in and tolerated. That argument has in many cases, in many legislation for the social good. States, prevented the better sentiment from passing laws for Mr. President, permit me in closing to recite some of the the protection of children and for the limitation of hours of things that have already been accomplished, a remarkable work. record of legislative achievements under the present admin Mr. President, it seems to me that here in Congress, where istration. nil the States are represented, is the place where humanity When this administration came into power it found a customs ·llould raise its voice and enter its decree that the manufac tariff upon the books which was not only condemned as ex tures of the United States shall be carried on not by the labor cessive by tile Democratic Party and its adherents, but it was of little children but by the labor of adults or those who are condemned also by a large portion of the Republican Party. apnroaching adult age. Within a few months that problem was grappled with and a 1\Ir. TILLl\lA.N. If the Senator will introduce a bill, and get new tariff was passed reducing the taxes in hundreds of anybody to Yote for it, to do that directly by Congress, instead schedules, and yet giving to the country a revenue-producing of indirectly and in a cowardly way, I will vote for it. tariff. · 12296 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. AUGUST -8, When tbis administration came into power it found the through th~ last and the prllsent ·congress with its Democratic country complaining because the vast re>enues of the United majOI1ty. I notice he failed to enumerate putting back the States were raised almost entirely by taxation upon consump tax on sugar. I should like to have the Senm:or go n little tion, which felJ hen vily upon the masses of th~ people, and it further and state whether that was a good move to make, and found no tax upon the wealth of the country. An income tax whether it has been beneficial-the restoration of customs · uuty provision was included in the tari.lf law, and that complaint on sugar-and what he and his party propose to do to provide wns remedied and that reform was completed. further re\:enue1 Will his party propose the imposition of When this administration came into power it found that for other customs duties in u.rder to provide the money necessary years the people of the country had been complaining because to run the Government? of the confusion in banking and currency matters, because It is a fitting addition to those acts which provide tluit those tions. I yield. to no man in my respect for the patriotism and l'la ving Government contracts shall not work their men more the wisdom of the men who founded this Government, but this than eight hours a day. Government would have proved a miserable failure had not those It is a fitting addition to the provision which Congress re. men placed in the Constitution directly, and again indirectly, cently enacted that female labor here in the District shall not the instruments by which the American people, advancing in be employed fol' more than eight hours a day. ' their mission. could change the Constitution itself. It is no It is a fitting addition to the Children's Bureau, established reflection on their wisdom, and yet it does seem to me that under this adminiStration, and which has done much to coordi those Senators who stand here to-day and base their sole argu nate the reforms in the country in the interest of children. ment against this proposed law upon the proposition that it It is a fitting addition to the act of Congress which was violates the Constitution, ought to get some wisdom from the passed under this administration putting an end to the manu history of this Republic. - facture of poisonous matches in factories, in which the labor It is no reflection upon the wisdom of the men who framed our suffered most untold agonies and was exposed to the most dis Constitution to say that we have already found it necessary to tressing diseases. absolutely and acutely reverse their position, not upon mere It is a fitting addition to the agricultural-educ~tion law administrative features of the Constitution but upon great funda which was passed by Congress and which is for the benefit of mentals of government. It is borne out by the history of the the agricultural classes of this country. Constitutional Convention that our forefathers were so fearful It is, Mr. President, I say a fitting climax to the efforts of the very name of a nation that on the second draft of that which have been legitimntely and conscientiously made by Con instrument coming before the assembly the word " nation " was gress in the last two or three years to improve the condition of stricken out, I think, where it occurred some 12 times, and that society and to make life more tolerable to those classes which before the final draft was submitted to the people for ratifica are not able to protect themselves. _ tion by one sweeping resolution the word "nation" was stricken Mr. NORRIS. , May I ask the Senator a question? Tbe from that instrument wherever it occurred. You will look Senator does not claim that all the acts be enumerated were through that great instrument to-day in vain to find the word p'assed during thP administration of President Wilson? "n-ation." Mr. HITCHCOCK. They have all been passed whi1e the So jealous were they of this that when the amendments came House and Senate were Democratic, and, as I recall, most of afterwards, in the one relating to the freedom of religious them in the last four years. thought and exercise the word " nation " had inadvertently crept • Mr. NORRIS. The House and Senate were not Democratic into tile amendment it was promptly stricken out; it was not under President Roosevelt. the thought or purpose to found a nation, but rather to found a Mr. HITCHCOCK. If I am mistaken in -any particular I will union of States. . be glad to have my colleague make any ~xception. But no people ever had worked out and no people ever can work Mr. NOH.RIS. I have not in mind ail the acts the Senator out a great destiny under a federation of united States. They mentioned. He mentioned, for instance, the establishment of must have that concrete organization which is known as a the Departm~nt of Labor. Tliat act was passed during Presi nation, and the first step that a people take is the same first step dent Taft's administration. He then mentioned the law passed of childhood itself. and that is to grow. When this Nation began in regard to matches, and that was passed, as I t·emember, when to grow it had to have territory; and it will ever stand as a either President Taft or President Roosevelt was President. splendid monument to Thomas Jefferson that, notwithstanding Several of the other measures which the Senator mentioned I his adhesion to . a narrow construction of the Constitution, he ren1ember Yotiug for when I was a Member of the House of could place bimself e.bove that and favor the Louisana purchase, ReprQsentative8, and that was before President .Wilson became although Mr. Jefferson proposed that they make the purchase, President. and then ratify the -purchase by a constitutional amendment. Mr. HITCHCOCK. I am very glad to have my colleague The American people, however, had begun their career, not as mak~ any exception to the list which I have given. I will a union of confederated States but as a nation, and they never merely say to my colleague that I jotted them from memory as stopped to make an amendment to their Constitution to ratify I sat here while the Senator from South Carolina [Mr. SMITH) that purchase. was speaking. My recollection is that all I cited were enacted The great struggle between State and national thought went since the Demoe1·ats assumed the responsibility of government. on until John Marshall, from that great tribunal which he Some of them may have originated in the Rouse of Representa· adorned, and which, fortunately, as I shall show, our fathers tives when it became Democratic, which was. two years before created, without int~nding that it should serve that purpose, President Wilson took office, but certainly most of this great however, and clothed with the power to amend this Constitu program I have recited has been due to Democratic initiative. tion by construction-John Marshall decided that although the Mr. CLAPP. Mr. President, I had not intended to say any National Government was a Government of granted powers, it thing in regard to the pending bill but the debate bas taken a was for that Government to determine what the grant was and certain direction which impels me to submit some suggestions where the limitations lay. You could not have a confederation for the REcoRD. Recognizing the fact that the evening is sultry of States with some power above them that could pass upon the and the Senate bas listened to this debate for some days I shall question of the exte-nt of the grant or the limitation; such a try at least to be very brief. power must be national. While it was some way around, it The matter that has caused ·me to give most consideration to made. so far as judicial construction could make, a nation of the bill has been as to the practical effect of the bilL I realize, this Republic. · sir, that it is a great step for the_National Government to take. But, sir, you can not make nations by judicial decrees. It It has been charged here on the one hand that support of was not until the wasted squadrons of Lee melted away at Appo the bill is the mere result or effect of sentiment; it has been mattox that the American people forever tore the word " federa charged that those who favor this bill are impelled to do so tion " from the spirit of their Constitution and wrote the word . by certain outside forces. It strikes me, sir, that the question "Nation" in its stead; and we have gone on so grandly in the of sentiment and influence is practically eliminated in this pursuit of a great career that no man to·day can dream of the case by reason of the fact that already a large number of the grandeur of its fruition. • States of this Union have enacted child-labor legislation. I Again, our fathers believed from the experience that was the~ · think it also relieves us of the necessity of presenting any back of tbem that the great governing body in government reason in support of so-called child-labor legislation. should be the legislative body ; and while they created the Su I have been much impressed during the last three days, sit preme Court, they twice refused to give that court the authority ting here in the Chamber and in a certain way conjuring up to declare an act of the legislative department of the Govern and bringing back into the Chamber forms from the land of ment void as in contravent)on of the constitutional limitations. shadows. The very arguments that are made to-day against There never was, however, and there never can be on this earth extending the power of the General Government have been for any length Qf time, such a thing as three coordinate human made time and again upon this floor by great men in the past, agencies when the basis of the association is power and au and time and again it has been predicted that for the General ' thority. Somewhere ·there must be a power to decide the limita Government to do this · or to do that meant the striking down tions of the one with reference to the other. That power of the sovereign States and the bringing of a condition in this has to be; of course, a separate authority, or one of the three country so at variance with the original pm·pose of the founders branches must arrogate to itself that function. The Supreme of the Government as to amount to a revolution against the Court wisely took the latter <'Ourse, and from the day when Constitution itself. Mru·shall made his great decision down to this hour there never There never was and there never will be on this earth suffi bas been seriously questi-oned the right and power and duty of the cient wisdom to frame a government, cut and dried, that with judiciary to set aside an act of the legislature when, in th~ out change in the spirit and purpose ean fit succeeding genera~ opinion of the judiciary, it was in contravention of the llmita- !1.2298 CONGRESSIONAL REOORD-SEN~I\.TE. AUGUST 8, tlons of the written Constitution. The men who provided for This power became lodged in the court-! may perhaps say that court in the Constitution never in general dreamed, in my something that will- not meet with universal approval-but, to judgment-and the fact that they twice refused to give it that my mind, in considering the constitutionality of a law it is power confirms my position-that that tribunal should ever arro not what has been, but what is and what will be, which should gate to itself the function of placing a limitation upon the legis be· considered. A truth, to my mind, gains no force because lative authority of government; those who believed the court it has been uttered by some man, great man though he be. possessed that power were the exception. To their day and When you analyze it you will usually find he is great because generation the bulwark of the liberty which had then been se he utters truths. Cooley, who has been so often cited in this cm·ed by the vanguard of humanity rested not in courts, but it debate, owes, I was going to say, his immortality to the truths rested in the legislature. that he uttered, rather than the truths that he uttered owing To them the legislature was the great popular branch of their validity to the fact that they were uttered by Mr. Cooley. government; but, fortunately, they did put that provision cre Under this policy and system of government, in the last ating the court in the Constitution, and thus equipped the analysis, we can only say that that is constitutional or uncon American people with the means of molding, modifying, and stitutional which that great tribunal decilles to be constitu developillg this Constitution to meet the growing wants and tional or unconstitutional; and that being true, we have got needs of a growing people by the judicial construction of the to measure the probability of their decision not so much by Constitution. To have met those wants-not in the terminology what has been said fifty or a hundred years ago, as by the but in the spirit of the Constitution-solely by constitutional trend of public purpose, public sentiment, and public thought amendment would have been too cumbersome and too slow. to-day. They also put in the instrument another provision that, No\v, what is there sacred about a State? There is but one next to a c·all to arms, is going to do more to make a nation of excuse for the existence of the State; and that is that the this people than any other one provision of the Constitution, American people in the conduct of their concrete affairs, deal and that was that clause relating to interstate commerce. ing with all their problems, can accomplish some purposes bet Senators have stood here _day after day and, I believe, seri ter through a State government than through the Federal Gov ously and honestly and candidly, have deplored the tendency ernment. Take that away and there would be no excuse for a toward nationalization as destructive of State rights and State State, and no more excuse for the authority of a State than sovereignty ; but they should read the history of our Republic. there would be for the raising of u county to the dignity of a I do not belie'f'e there is a. Senator to-day on the floor of this State or the reduction of the State in power to the level of~ Chamber who regrets that in the end, so far as we have gone, an ordinary county. we have made u nation of this Republic; but at every step it Mr. HARDWICK. l\1t. President, the same principle woulll was against the protests of those who opposed it; it was against apply just as well to the Federal Government, would it not? the prophecy of dire disaster on the part of those who opposed l\:Ir. CL.<\PP. Absolutely. · it; and it represents and stands for the fact of the possibility 1\lr. HARDWICK. The Federal Government is establishccl of the change of American sentiment. for certain Federal purposes, certain express purposes. In 1859 the legislature of the State now so ably rep1·esented 1\!r. CLAPP. There, I differ with the Senator. by the senior Senator from Wisconsin [1\Ir. LA FOLLETTE], 1\'Ir. HARDWICK. If the Government· does not carry out passed a resolution indorsing the Kentucky and Virginia reso those purposes for the good of the people of the United States, lutfons. It seems to-day incredible that that Northern State it might just as well not exist at all. should have done that as late as 1859, but two years later-- 1\Ir. CLAPP. The latter is true. The Government was not Mr. HARDW'ICK. Mr. President, the Senator will pardon created for certain Federal pm·poses. The Government proved me just a moment. I think 11 Northern States did the same to haYe been created for national purposes. Now, there is no t11ing that same year. excuse on earth for this National Government except the fact 1\Ir. CLAPP. Yes; but the others were, I think, what might that the people who live under it and who compose it can galn be called the border States in the North. morally and materially by the association. Take that awaj, 1\Ir. HARDWICK. But there were 11 of them in the North. and there is no excuse for either government. l\Ir. CLAPP. But carrying this advanced thought ancl pur Now, that being true, where would the line be drawn between pose, that pioneer State, not as later in legislative reform and the State and the National Government? We may admit that policy, was stlll embodying the pioneer spirit and yet two it was drawn at one point in the creation of this Government; years later thP boys from the farms of Wisconsin and the boys but much of that division, much of that line of demarcation, · from the woods of Wisconsin, aye, the boys in whose veins has already disappearetl. When the founders of our Govern flowed the mingled blood of the white father and the red mother, ment put the commerce clause in the Constitution, they put it were reversing that resolution, and forever eliminated it as a there to free commerce. They put it there to prevent one State factor in American policies by the crimson tide pom·ed out imposing duties and bm·dens against another State. They never upon Southern battlefields. dreamed that it would be invokecl for a. safety-appliance de· 1\Ir. President, with this history of change, we need not be vice, because they never dreamed of the railroad. They never alarmed at the mere thought of change. With these two great dreamed that it would be invoked as the basis for a power to instrumentalities placed in the Constitution, through which regulate rates, because they never dreamed of a railroad that and by which the American people may modify and alter their would have any rates to regulate. They saw an evil; they saw Constitution, we need not be deterred from the exercise of the a danger, and it was, that one State might impose unfair, un· power thus conferred upon us. equal burdens against the other States. To obviate that, and Mr. LEWIS. 1\Ir. President-- to open the a\enues of commerce, that clause was put in the The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Minnesota Constitution. But putting in the same Constitution this tri yield to the Senator from Illinois? bunal that was to construe the Constitution, that tribunal natu Mr. CLAPP. I do, with pleasure. rally, as the industries of this country developed, as the com 1\Ir. LEWIS. The philosophic discussion of the Senator from plexities of our li>es developed and increased, extended this 1\Iinnesota is interesting me very much. Would it be regarded power, wisely, of course, to cover things that never had been as a iliversion if e asked him if he felt it wrrs reserved in the dreamed of by the founders of this Go\ernment. So, with this foundation of om· Government in the making of the Constitu power in hand, and this tribunal to determine it, we must, liv tion t11at there should be privilege in the courts to declare the ing under this form of government, recognize in the last an acts of legislative bodies unconstitutional? alysis that that is constitutional which that great tribunal :Mr. CLAPP. No; I believe generally just the reverse.of that. sustains as within the power of Congress. When it comes to The history of the convention shows that twice the matter was the invasion of the State, it is a mere question, primarily, what submitted to the convention and rejected, and, if my memory purpose can be best served by the State and \Vhat can be best serves me now-although I am speaking from memory of the served by the Federal Government? matter and have not investigate() it for some time--it was over 1\Ir. WORKS. 1\Ir. President-- whelmingly defeated; and John Marshall, a year before he took The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from lUinnesota his seat as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United yield to the Senator from California? States, as a lawyer, of course, and not as a judge, in a brief in 1\lr. CLAPP. I do. the case known as the Ware case asserted that the Supreme 1\Ir. 'VORKS. I should like to ask the. Senator from Minne Court tlid not have the power to set aside an a-:: of the legisla sota, in his view of the matter, what would become of the rights ture as in cont.avention of the Constitution. True. that was the of the States if that great tribunal should be composed of men act of the law;er, but it was the act of a great lawyer and a thinking as he tloes? great patriot, and a man who carried in his thought and in his Mr. CLAPP. It would depend in its effect upC'n the American purpose and in his patriotism an association with the birth of people upon whether I was wise or correct in determining what the Constitution itself. functions the State should retain and what functions the Gen- 1916. CONGRESS! ON .AL RECORD-SENATE. 12299 eral Government should exE>rcise. Whatever may be sa.td of It, Mr. WORKS. Mr. President-- there is no escape from the fact that in the last analysis what The VICE PRESIDENT. · Does the Senator from 1\.finnesota five men, a majority of the Supreme Court, there say is the yield to the Senator from California? constitutional law of this land until five men of the same Mr. CLAPP. With pleasure. tribunal reverse the decision and the ruling. l\1r. WORKS. Under the Senator's construction of the Con- J\It·. HARDWICK. ·Mr. President-- stitution, why might not the National Government do this thing The YICE PRESIDENT. Does. the Senator from Minnesota directly by legislating respecting the treatment of children in yield to the Senator from Georgia? the factories? Why is it necessary to do it indirectly by at- Mr. CLAPP. With pleasure. . tempting to control <'ommerce? 1\Ir. HARDWICK. I want to- ask my friend, entertaining the Mr. CLAPP. I thought I made that plain. I will briefly re- view that be does of the relative functions of the State and the view it, however. Federal Gavern..nients, if be has no concern whatever for the As I said at the outset, no group of men ever were wise practical consideration that Congress would have neither the enough, and there never will be a group wise enough to make a inclination nor the time to enact all local legislation, and there- government that will be a cut-and-dried government, that will fore, if he- cares nothing for the States for any sentimental fit changing conditions. reason, if be has not some practical regard for our dual system But fortunately our forefathers, meeting only from their because of the fact I have just mentioned? viewpoint, as I believe, a then present exigency, put in the Mr. CLAPP. Why~ I am basing the line of demarcation upon Constitution this commerce clause, and at the same time, with- the practi<'al, and not the sentimental. out intending-although some of them may have thought that Mr. HARDWICK. The Senator is not drawing any line at all. it would come to pass-that this tribunal would take upon Mr. CLAPP. I had not reached -it. I itself the authority to dE'termine the limitations of the Consti- Mr. HARDWICK. All right. tution, they put the Supreme Court in the Constitution. With- :Mr. CLAPP. What I was arguing was that. if everyone of out those two there would be, in the first place. no power to the Members of this Senate had been in the Constitutional Con- lay a hand of check upon the constr.uction of the Constftution vention when the Constitution was adopted, in determining by the legislative power, and either that power would have what things we would grant to the Federal Government and frankly to violate the language of the Constitution or it could what we would reserve to the States. we would reserve to the not reach the many thlngs which it has reached through the States those things that we betieved it was better for the commerce clause of the Constitution.· American people to have functionized through the State instead I shall not enumerate the progress we have made under that. of the Federal Government. It is a practical question-nothing It is familiar to every Member of this body. Year after year we more, nothing Jess. It was not a sentiment; it can nat be a have gone into realms undreamed of by virtue of the commerce sentiment to-day. If it ever was a sentiment, then that senti- ' clause in our Constitution; and I believe that the Supreme ment has been rudely shaken not only by judicial decision but Court in the case of this act will say that it is valid as a part by the result of war itself. . of the exercise by Congress of its constitutional power under This being true, I undertake to say that the question is,. Which the commerce clause. I have no doubt at all that they will. can best serve the purpose of the American people with ref- If they do, then under the very spirit and phllosophy of our erence to the restriction upon child labor? Now, a large number Government, unless we fear that final repository of power, we of . the States have enacted restrictive child-labor legislation. ·must accept the wisdom and the justice of its decision and the We have there, then, a fixed purpose and policy of the American wisdom of its construction o.f our Constitution. people. Now, the trouble about leaving it to the State is just Somewhere in human governmeQt that power must exist. what the Senator from Nebraska hinted at. He hardly went as They fortunately, without intending, as I believe, placed it ln far, I think, as be might have gone. that tribunal, and we must submit to the wisdom of that That is this, and it is a prin<'iple- that every lawmaker ought I tribunal. Especially where it is a mere question of the com always to bear in mind in framing legislation: You have to parative exercise of power we need not be alarmed at their recognize the frailty of human nature. You have to reco.g- constru<'tion, because, after all, the whole question of the rela nizeo the element of greed as well as the element of humanity, tion of the State to the Nation was in the first instance the and when you leave . this matter entirely to the States you mere judgment of men meeting a then present condition, and throw in the balance the element of greed in its effect upon a subsequently construed by Chie~ Justice Marshall, worked out State refraining from restrictive legislation, to the end that it through war, and worked out since more elaborately by judicial may give its citizens an advantage over the citizens of the construction. State that does have restrictive legislation. You avoid that, in Taking this view of it, believing that we can reach this re a measure, by bringing it to the broader equation of a Congress sult better through the Federal Government, believing that we that represents tht:>- peop.le of aU the States. can get away from the rivalries of the States and from the Then, there is another reason wby it should be done by the danger of one State withholding restrictive legislation to the ~.,ederal GovernmPnt. This Government was create ns to the constitutionality of the law, but stated that notwlth· "The genius and chnracter of the whole Government seem to ·be that standing that I proposed to vote for the bill. My doubt as to the its action is to be applied to all the external concerns of the Nation, and to those internal concerns which affect the States generally; but con titutionality of the law did not arise from any legal knowl not to those whicb are completely within a pat·ticular State which do edge that I bad on the subject or any presumption on my part not arfect other States, and with which it is not necessary to interfere, for the purpose of executing some of the general powers of the Govem that I could interpret the constitutionality of a question of this ment." kind. It arose from what very prominent lawyers in this body, ~ ~here is a growing tendancy on the part of many of our people to in whose legal knowledge I bad great confidence, some of them insiSt that because an evil has become great or widespread, and the several States do not deal with it as it should be dealt with either on tllis side of the Chamber and some on the other side of the from lack of desire or lack of ability, the General Government as a sort Chamber: had suggested to me when a similar bill was under of overlord should assume the responsibility of correcting it. Reduced consideration and was being so ably advocated by the then to the last analysis, this is the argument of the advocates of the Fed Senator from Indiana, l\1r. Beveridge. eral child-lab!>r law. That the employment of immature childt·en is a monstrous evil no properly constituted mind can for a moment doubt I absorbed the idea at that time from what I was told that but when existing in a State it is an evil the supervision, regulation, or the measure was in all human probability unconstitutional, but suppression of which belongs wholly and exclusively to the State, and I not to the General Government. It is purely a domestic matter. The have since bad occasion to consult some of those same Sena General Government bas been given no authority to legislate respecting tors and they have told me that they have changed their views, tbe domestic evils which exist within the limits of a State simply oe as the President of the United States has changed hls views, cause they are monstt·ous evils any more than if they existed in li""'rancc or England. To do 30 would constitute a clear invasion of the reserved and that they now believe the legislation to be constitutional. powers of the States, and in its ultimate effect would prove more harm For that reason, having a· strong inclination to support this kincl ful than the failme of the State to cure its own evils. Once break of legislation, I have no hesitancy to-day in voting for the bill, over the line which separates the State and Federal powers because the exigency is great or thought to be great, and the way has been opened assuming that it will go to the Supreme Court of the United for the gradual and insidious, though certain, breaking down of the States for interpretation and decision. I am not presumptuous barrier of separation altogether. If we begin to legislate in such mat enough as a layman to make any suggestion as to what I think ters upon the ground of exigency, we shall end by legislating upon the the final fate of the bill will be if the Supreme Court is called ground of expediency. If we enter the domain of State control to ab9lish e>ils because the States do not act at all, we shall remain to on to pass upon it. regulate and correct because the States -do not act as we think they On a former occasion when a bill of this kind was lmder de should. Of course. no one who bas considered the _matter insists tba'f: Congress has authority to legislate directly to forbid the employment bate I occupied a minute or two to say this: of child Jabot\ in the domestic industries of a State, but it is sought to I am not in the habit of-alluding to myself or my early struggles, do so indirectly by declaring that any article manufactured in whole Ol' but 1t would have been a blessing to me, Mr. President, if I had been in part by child labor shall be denied the right of interstate transporta kept in school until the age of 14 years. All through my life I have tion. In other words, if a manufacturer of woolen goods in Massachu felt and realized that fact. I do think that the best disposition we setts employs a thousand operatives, one of whom is a child of tender can make of children until they are 14 years of age is to keep them in years, tbe employment of that one child (whether sanctioned by the school. law of the State or not) taints the entit·e output of the factory, and none of it <"an be transported into an.other State. The authority for Now, Mr. President, upon that utterance, made some years such legislaion is supposed to be found in the commerce clause of the ago, I stand to-day I believe this is beneficent legislation, and Constitution giving Congress power to regulate commerce among the several States. No power is given Congress to t•egulate the relation of I assume that it will pass the Senate and become a law at this master and servant, or to say who shall or who shall not be employed, session of Congress. The Democratic Party will doubtless to pre:;ct·ibe the hours of labor, or to regulate in any way the manufac claim credit for the legislation, but it will be remembered that ture of commodities within the limits of a State. The power is to regu late commerce, and if under this power, which seems precise and clear, when we were informed by the majority that the child-labor bill Congress may control the employment of child labor in a State, there was not to be a part of the Democratic program of legislation would seen--: to be no phase of the business of domestic manufacture the minority of this body called attention to that fact and in which it cou:d not in the same way control. It_ could with equal authority forbid the interstate shipment of goods where the manufac sisted that it should receive consideration at this session. The turet· employs his servants more than eight hours, where he employs Republican minority is certainly entitled to much credit for nonunion labor or where he does not employ nonunion labor, where he the part it played in the matter. em1)loys any Chinese labor or where he declines to employ such labor, or, indeed, where he does anything which Congress does not approve or I \\ill not detain the Senate longei·, simply repeating the hope falls to do anything which CongTess does approve. Thus a power to that the bill may pass by a substantial majority, as I belie-ve regulate interstnte commerce would be transformed into a power to it will. regulate domestic manttfacttu·e, and a power to reg1tlate commerce into a power tn 1Jrohibit commerce altogether. l\1r. SMITH of South Carolina. l\Ir. President, I do not think It is far better to leave to the people of each State their constitu that this debate could be better closed than by having read an tiona.i right and their constitutional duty to deal with their own problems in their own way. 'l'o the extent that the General Govern extract from a speech delivered by the junior Senator from ment would assume the responsibility of correcting the evils in a Utah [l\1r. SuTHERLAND] on the po\ver of the National Govern State, the State government would quite likely shirk its own responsi ment, and which was made a Senate document and presented by bility. With the gradual abrid~rnent of local action would come the the Senator from Idaho [Mr. BoRAH] for that purpose. As gradual loss of local ability. The people of the State would lean more and more upon the National Government which is remote f-rom the junior Senator is looked upon by his colleagues as beicg a the locus of the evil, instead of relying upon themselves wllo are in diligent student of the Constitution and a very ardent supporter close touch with it. Their power would become atrophied from dis of the rights and privileges of the two powers recognized in our use as the muscles of the body become atrophied from lack of exercise. Such a process would inevitably. to a great extent, sap the feeling of form of go~ernment touching this very identical point, I send local responsibility, and in time the naticn itself would become unable to the desk and ask the Secretary to begin reading· at the to bear up under the multiplicity of duties which it would be com paragraph marked 2 in Roman, on page 10, and to read from pelled to assume. The States are politically as well as geographically parts of one great governmental organism. To destroy or reduce the that point down to the conclusion of it. I think the Senator vitality of one of these parts would in the end reduce the strength of expressed himself clearly and evidenced his clear knowledge the whole, as the vigor of the human body· is lessened by the loss or of the Constitution, and coming from the other side, as it does, weakening of one of its limbs. - By leaving local evils to the State and national evils to the Nation we shall preserve the harmonious balance I hope it will have some effect upon those who have some doubt ·contemplated by the Constitution, and in the end solve the problems on the subject. of society much more effectually than we can ever do by deyolving l\lr. GALLINGER. Before it is read I want to say that I upon one tbe responsibilities clearly intended for the other. ha\C full authority to say that the Senator from Utah [l\1r. Mr. SMITH of South Carolina. Mr. President, it is not SuTHERLAND] is in the same catego_ry as the President of the necessary for me to remark that if we can find any greater United States. He has changed his view as to the constitution right about face on a bill, if in common parlance we haye any alit,y of the proposed legislation. fl.opper to beat that, he is surely some flopper. l\1r. Sl\fiTH of South Carolina. When it is. read I think his I should like to have read into the RECORD. right at this point, colleagues will see how radical has been the change. as there seems to be some discussion as to the power of the 1\lr. GALLINGER. Not more radical than that of the Presi court to interpret the Constitution according to their will, from dent of the United States. the Federalist, No. 78, reading from the point marked on page l\lr. SMITH of South Carolina. I did not draw any compari 541- son. I said "bow radical." I might have drawn the compari- l\lr. CLAPP. That is from Hamilton? son under other circumstances. - _ Mr. Sl\liTH of South Carolina. Yes. Do\vn to page 544-. Tile VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read as re Of course this was during the time of the formutiYe period, quested. and it gives some idea as to what they were discussing and The Secretary read as follows : what conclusions were reached. While maintaining the power of the General Government to ade The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will read as re quately meet and deal with evet•y ea:ternal situation which affects the quested. general welfare of tbe United States, it is uo less essential to maintain The Secretary proceeded to read the article from tlle Fed f.!:te sup~·eme power of the State governments to deal with every ques tion ~vh1ch affects only the domestic welfare of the several States. As eralist, and was interrupted by;- happlly expressed by Chief Justice Marshall in Gibbons v. Ogden (9 1\Ir. VARDAMAN. l\Ir. President, may I inquit·e wllnt the Wheat., 195): Secretary is rending? LIII-774 12302 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- SENATE. AUGUST 8, Mr. SMITH of South Carolina. Tbe Secretary is reading an until be became a judge. John Jay, to whom tbe Chief Justice_. nrticle from the Federalist in reference to the power of the Su ship was offered before it was offe1·ed to Marshall, declined it preme Court to declare void acts of Congress. on the ground that tllE> court had not sufficient authority under Mr. CLAPP. It is an argument of Alexander Hamilton in the Constitution to either maintain its own dignity or to serve favor of the adoption of the Constitution. the American people, and it was questioned in the court when 1\Ir. V.ARDA.l\1AN. I thought it was; but I desired to be Marshall took tile Chief Justice hip. 1\lr. Marshall made a very sure. labored, and yet a very logical and correct, argument in sup~ l\fr. GALLINGER. It is ancient history. port of it: but the proposition was twice rejected in the assembly. The Secretary resumed and concluded the reading of the I do not hesitate to say that the general sentiment and thought article, which is as follows: at the time was that thE> court would never set asiue an act of The complete independencil of the courts of justice is peculiarly es the legislative department of the Government. sentin.l in a limited Constitution. By a limited Constitution, I under Mr. THOMPSOX Mr. President, I shall take but a moment stand one which contains certain specified exceptions to the legislative authority; such, fot· instance, as tbat it shall pass no bills of attain of the time of the Senate, for I know the desire of the Senate der, no ex post facto laws, and the like. Limitations of this kind can to vote on this bill ; and I believe I can render better service to be pt·eset·ved In practice no other way than through the medium of the the country, and especially to the children of the country, by courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts cotrary to the manifest tenor of the Constitution void. Without thls, all the aiding in bringing about a speedy vote than by attempting to reservations of particular rights or privileges would amount to noth talk. I wish, however, to expre s my hearty approval of the ing. legislation and my belief in its constitutionality, after a thorough Some perplexity respecting the rights of the courts to pronounce legislative acts void, because contrary to the Constitution, has at·isen study of the question as a membe1· of the Interstate Commerce from an imagination that the doctrine would imply a superiot·ity of Committee, which considered this bill, and also after hearing the judiciary to the legislative power. It is urged that the authority the arguments and reading all of the authorities pre ented on which can declare the acts of another void mut~t necessai·ily be supe rior to the one wllose acts may be declared void. As tb1s doctrine is both sides of the question in the Senate dm·ing the considera~ of great importance in all the American Constitutions. a brief dis tion of thE> measure. The merits uf the subject of the measure cussion of the ground on which it rests can not be unacceptable. are acknowledged by all, even those opposing tbe bill. Commer There is no position which depends on clearer principles than that every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the teno1· of the com cialism has exacted a great deal from the people in this country, mission under which it is exercised,_ is void. No legislative act, there but I am glad we have now reached a point when the tears, fore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this would blood, brain, and life of the children of this Nation shall no be to affirm that the deputy 1s greate-r than his principal ; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are longer contribute to its profits. superior to the people themselves ; that men acting by virtue of pow In order, however, Mr. President, that we may have the benefit t'rs, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what of the legal authorities and discussions on this question from lbey forbid. the earliest period when bills of this character were first con If it be said that tbe legislative body are themselves the constitu :ional judges of theu· own powers, and that the construction they put sidered down to the present time, I desire to have printed in :tpon them is conclusive upon the other departments, it may be an the REcoRD, as a part of my remarks, and in the regular REcoRD swered, that this can not be the natural presumption, where it is not type, an article written by Edwin Maxey, of Lincoln, ~ebr., in to be collected from any particular provisions in the Constitution. It ls not otherwise to be supposed that the Constitution could intend to April, 1907, on "The constitutionality of the Beveridge child enable the representatives of the people to substitute their will fot· labor law," published in the Green Bag for May, 1907; also tbat of their constituents. 1t is far more rational to suppose that the an editorial written by Robert B. Troutman, of the Columbia courts were designed to be an interD:ledlate body between the people and the legislature, in order, among other things, to keep the latte1 Law Review, published in April, 1914, on "The constitutionality withln the Umits assigned to their authority. 'l'be interpretation of of a Federal child-labor law." I should also like to have printed the laws is the proper and peculiar pt·ovlnce of the courts. A Consti in the RECORD a criticism of the Adair and Coppage cases, the tution is, in fact, and must be _regarded by the judges, as a funda mental law. It therefore belongs to them to ascertain its meaning, as two cases principally relied upon by tho e opposed to this bill, well as the meaning of any particular act proceeding from the legis appearing in an article written by Mr. Justice Brandeis on the lative body. If there should happen to be an irreconcilable variance subject of "The living law," published in February, 1916, on between the two, that which has the superior obligation and vaJldlcy ought, of cour e, to be p1·eferred; or, in other words, the Constitution page 467 in the lllinois Law Review. I shall not take the time ought to be preferrPd to the statute; the intention of the people to the of the Senate to read these articles, but I would like to have intention of their agents. them printed in the RECORD in the type I ba"Ve already stated. Nor does this condusion by any means suppose a superiority of the judicial to the lE-gislative power. It only supposes that the power The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, it is so ordered. of the people ts superior to both and that where the will of the legis The matter referred to is as follows: lature, declared in its statutes. stands in opposition to that of the people, declared in the Constitution, the judges ought to be governed THE1 CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE BEVERIDGE CHILD-LABOR BILL. by the latter rather than the former. They ought to regulate their [Edwin Maxey in the Green Bag, May, 1907, pp. 21}0-292.] decisions by the fundamental laws rather than by those which are not fundamental. The bill introduced in the Senate by Mr. Beveridge for the This exerci&e of judicial discretion in determining between two con tradictory laws is exemplified in a familiar instance. It not uncom purpose of regulating child labor i~ a most interesting project !DLnly happen~ that there are two statutes existing at one time, clashing of legislation in more ways than one. Not only is it an evidence in whole or tn part with each other and neither of them containing of the growing influence of labor in politics, but it raises the any repealing clause or expression. In such a case it is the province of the courts to liquidate and fix their meaning and operation ; so far whole question of the extent of police power posses ed by the as they can, cy any fai.r construction, be reconciled to each other, rea General Government. It may be safely said that there is no son and law conspire to dictate that this should be done ; . where this other question which is to-day of more vital interest in the is impracticable it becomes a matter of necessity to give ell'£>Ct to one field of American jurisprudence, and none more perplexing. in exclusion of the other. The rule which has obtained in the courts for oetermlning their relative valiillty ls that the last in order of time The bill provides that " no carrier of interstate commerce shall be preferred to tne first. But this is a mere rule of construction, shall transport or accept for transportation the products of not derived from any positive law, but from the nature and reason of any factory or mine in which children under 14 years of age the thing. It is a rule not enjomed upon the courts by legislative pro vision. but adopted by themselves. as consonant to truth and propriety, are employed or permitted to work, which products are offered for the dirt•ctlon of their conduct as interpreters of the law. They to said interstate carriers by the firm, person, or corporation thought it _Pasonable that bPtween the interfering acts of an equal operating said factory or mine, or any officer or agent or servant authority that which was the last indication of its will should have the prefennce. thereof, for transportation into any other State or Territory But In regard to the interfe-ring n.cts of a superior and subordinate than the one in whkh said factory or mine is located." authority, of an origmal ~tn'l derivative power, the nature and reason Owners of factories and mines are required to file every six of the thlng indicate the converse of that rule as proper to be followed. They teach us that the prior ad of a superior ought to be preferred months an affidavit, the form of which shall be prescribed by to tht> subsequent act of an inferior and subordinate authority, and that, the Department of Commerce and Labor, but which shall in aceordingly, whenever a particular statute contravenes the Constitution, it will be the duty of the judicial tribunals to adhere to the latter substance state that said factory or mine employs no child under and disregard the former. 14 years of age. A penalty of $10.000 or impri onment for six It can be of no weight to say that the courts, on the pretense of months, or both, is provided in case any interstate carrier fails a repugnancy, may Rubstitute their own pleasure to the constitutional intentions of the legislature. This might as well happen in the case to require such affidavit, and double that penalty for each viola of two contradictory statutes, or it might as well happen in every tion of the act by the owner of mine or factory. adjudication upon any single statute. The courts must declare the As, therefore, the bill proposes to regulate child labor through sense of the law; and if they shcmld be dispo ed to exercise will in an exercise of the powers of the Fe dcci ·ion llas ne,·er been reYersed. The regulation provided by by the framers of the Constitution. The phra c " police powN·" the bill is, therefore, no iLtfringement llpon the rights of the was not used until40 rears after the. Constitutional Convention, · State·, unless, insteau of being a regulation of interstate com it being first used by Chief Ju tice Marshall in his opinion in merce, it is a police regulation under the guise of regulating the case of Brown v. Maryland, 182·7. commerce. If it i a police regulation, its constitutionality is But whether in theory the Federal Go\ernment posses ·es any open to dispute. police power, the fact is that it exerci ·es police po~·er ·. The If this can be sustained as a regulation of commerce, it be exclusion of lottery tickets from interstate commerce by pro comes very difficult to see what limit there is to the power of hibiting interstate carriers from carrying them can not be con the Federal Government to control the productive processes sidered a regulation for the purpose of securing the safety of heretofore controlled under the police power of the States. If commerce, but is clearly for the purpo.· e of protecting the pul>lic the Federal Government has the power to forbid interstate car morals. As was saiu by the court: "What clause of the Con riers to accept goods produced by child labor, would not the same stitution can be cited which, in any degree, countenances the power warrant the exclusion of goods produced in factories or suggestion that one may, of right, carry or cause to be- carriec:l mines in which men are permitted to work more than eight hours from one State to another that which will harm the public per day? Would not the same power enable it to forbid inter morals?" (Champion v. Ames, 188 U. S., 357.) But legislation state carriers to accept goods from concerns employing for by the Government for the pmpose of protecting the public eigners or l\Iormans or union laborers or nonunion laborers? morals is unquestionably. an exercise of the police power. . In short, if this is a legitimate exercise of the power of Con The recent pure-food bill passed by Congress is in the interest gress over commerce, the extent of control which Congress may of public health and not for the purpose of rendering commerce exercise over production becomes almost entirely a question of less dangerous. Though it may theoretically serve the latter expediency, not of law. A large part of the police power now purpose, its real purpose is well understood to be the former, exercised by the States will have disappeared, and a _consider and a Jaw must be judged by its real purpose, not by its remote able portion of what remains will be held by them as tenants at or incidental ·effects. This principle has been recognized by the will. Supreme C-ourt in Minnesota v. Barber (136 U. S., 313) ; New That this is not a regulation of commerce would seem to York v. Miles (11 Peters, 103) ; Passenger cases (7 How., 283); appear from the fact that it is not commerce but manufacture Yick Wo v. Hopkins (118 U.S., 356). That governmental action and mining that is regulated. The processes upon .. hich the for the protection of the public health is an exercise of the regulation operates have ended before commerce begins. If police power is too clear to admit of doubt. there is any distinction at all between production and distribu The employers' liability act, which is a regtilation for llro tion, and it has always been considered that there is, the power moting public safety, is also an exercise of the police power by . to regulate the latter does not necessarily include the power to the Federal Government. Like the ptll'e-food law, its constitu regulate the former. It is thus a new doctrine, which teaches tionality has not yet been passed upon by the Supreme Court, that because Congress has power to regulate commerce it has but until then the presumption is in favor of their constitu power to regulate manufacturing and mining, which are parts tionality. of production. As to the fact of the exercise of police power by the Federal One would not be surprised· if, under its po,ver to i'egnlate Government, we find the following in Freund's \ery able work commerce, the Federal Government should claim the right to on the police power: " It is impossible to deny that the Federal prohibit interstate carriers from employing children under 14 Government exercises a considerable police power of its own. years of age. While this would in reality be a police regulation, This pollee power rests chiefly upon the constitutional power to it would on the face of it be a regulation of commerce. But regulate commerce among the States .and with foreign nations', this is a very different proposition from making the regulation but not exclusively so. It must now be regarded as firmly apply to a process which has ended before commerce begins, established that the power over commerce, while primarily in and calling it a regulation of commerce rather than of manufac tended to be exercised in behalf of economic interests, may be ture or mining. The Supreme Court of the United States in used for the protection of safety, order, and morals." (Police the case of Gibbons v. Ogden defined commerce as " intercourse." Power, p. 63.) And in the case of the County of l\Iobile v. Kimball (102 u_ S., Relative to tlle rrght of the General Government to exercise 091) it supplemented the above 6eneral definition with one much police powers, Judge Cooley says in his Constitutional Limita more explicit: " Commerce with foreign nations and among the tions, page 723: "Congress may establish police regulations, as States, strictly considered, consists in intercourse and traffic, well as the State , confining their operation to the subjects over including in these terms navigation and transportation of per which it is given control by the Constitution.". sons and property, as well as the pm·chase, sale, and exchange In view of the position taken by the Supreme Court in the of commodities." And in the case of Kidd 't'. Pearson (128 Lottery case, it would not be surpri ~ ing if it would su tain as U. S., 1) it was said that "manufacture is transportation-the constitutional a regulation by the General Government for the fashioning of raw material into a change of form for use. The purpose of protecting the public health and promoting the functions of commerce are different. The buying and selling public intelligence. This exact question has not ret been pre anu the tran ~ portation incidental thereto constitute commerce. sented to that court for decision, so that it is impossible to say '~ * * If it l>e held that the term includes the regulation of at present what its decision would be. Considered in connection all such manufactures as are intended to be the subject of com-. with other que tiom:; closely allied to it, the question presented mercial transactions in the futm·e, it is impossible to deny that by this proposeu legislation becomes one of intense· interest, it would also include ali productive industries that contemplate whether we consiuer ·it from the standpoint of its legality or the same thing. Any movement to\Yard the establishment of of its expediency. rules of production in this vast country, with its many differ LIXCOLN, NEBR., Ap~·il, 1907. ent climates and opportunities, could only be at the sacrifice of the auvantages of a large part of the localities in it, if not of COXSTITt:TIOXA.LlTY OF A FEDERAL CHILD·LABOR LAW. every one of them. A situation more puzzling to the State gov [Robct·t B. Troutman, of the editorial staff of the Columbia Lnw ernments, and more provocative of confiicts between the Gen Review, in the Green Bag, Aprll, 1914, pp. 154-160.] eral Government and the States, and less likely to haye been On January 26 llepresentati•e A. Mitchell Palmer, of Penn what the framers of the Constitution intended, it would be diffi sylvania, introduced into Congress a bill which, if it is made a cult to imagine." law, will present to the courts a problem of constitutional law And in United States v. E. 0. Knight Co. (156 U. S., 1) the which is by no means easy to solve. The essential features of court said: "That which belongs to commerce is within the Mr. Palmer's bill are: 'l'hat no person, corporation, etc., '' man juris 1916. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 12305 rier. * ,. * The prohibition is not in terms confined to trans- enforcement Qf their statutes, the gambling in lotterles or the portation by common carrier, nor need such limitation be im- perpetration of frauds by use of adulterated ·foods or the traffic plied in .ort.le.r to sustain the constitutionality of the enactment. ·in women for immor.al _purposes forms no basis for a legal -ar.gu Af3 has already been decided, it has the quality of a police regu- ment that Congress bas the pow.er to interfere to help the lation, although ~nacted in the exercise of the power to regulate States. .And it is .equally true that the fact that child labor interstate ~ommerc~ (citing cases) ; and since this power is used in production is a local matter. and that the States could complete in itself, it. was discretionary with Congress whether ably enforce any laws directed .against this evil, and that, there the prohibition should be extended to transportation by others fore, there is no need for Federal aid, -can not be used as an than common carriers." Wilson v. United States, Nos. 168 and argument for a denial that Congress has the power under the 169, October term, 1913, decided Feb. 24, 1914.) But these ·goods Constitution to a>ass such a law. This would be an argument were outlawed because they were shipped for the PUl:POSe of as to whether Congress -should deem it advisable to exercise its inflicting injury on the members of the public after the car- power, but it ·can not be used to question the existence of. th.at riage has terminated. And it would seem that tn no case ought power. And, .again, this argument may have great weight ln the court to rely on the mere wording of the statute in the de- determining whether Congress is acting within the due process termination of this validity, but will look into the practical of law requirement as prescribed by the fifth amendment. .And effect and administration of the law. (This principle should it must be noted that the control over interstate commerce can follow from the attitude which the Supreme Court has .always not be exerted in violation of the other provisions of the Consti taken in -examinations of State Jegislation 'llnder the fourteentb tution. (It would seem that the same liberality of construe amendment. 8ee Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886), 118 U.S., 356.) tion should be given to the police regulations of Congress under It can not te doubted that this was done in each of the cases the due-process clause as the court has always accorded to the considered, und although the object and effect of the laws f State laws enacted f-or the protection of public morals. health, were to protect the public frcm injuries which could be in- and safety, Lewis, "Commodities Clause of the Hepburn Act." fiicted only aft_er transportation had ceru;ed, the court .neverthe- 21 Harvard Law Rev., 595, 610.) It is on this point that Sena les state commerce. 1 the Pure Food and White Slave cases, embracing a much Another apparent ·distinction l>etween this ea e und the Lot- :t:n:oader fie~d of Federal control, bav~ been decided by the court tery, Pure Food, and Whlte Slave cases may be found in tlle , Wlth unammous concurrenc~. And m each -of these cases Mr. fact that since a majority of the States have not enacted a Justice McKenna delivered the opinion, and the broad language child-labor law there seems to be no such •un1versal concurrence in which he •expres ed the court's views could well be applied in the idea th~t child labor is an evil which deserves eradica- to sustain a law excluding the products of ·child labor from the tion, as was the fact in each of the other laws. But, of course, benefit -Of interstate commerce. •thls ru·gument, based on a theory that the States could in some But the determination of the validity of the law must rest manner consent to an interference by Congress, can not be ap- upon a question of fact, which ·only the Supreme Court can proYed. Congress, by virtue of its delegate(! powers in the decide: Is the -evil of child labor which is sought to be remedied Con titution, either has or has not the _power to pass such a by the statute of such substantial connection to the protection la\Y, ant.l the consent of the States, except by -eonstitutional of p~blic morals and health and safety as touched by inter amendment, has nothing to do with the exercise McKenna. It is submitted that this tendency is to be com· 1\Ir. ROBINSON. I desire to announce that the Senator from mended and that it should lead the court to sustain the child Ohio [Mr. PoMERENE) is unavoidably absent. labor law. And although the article manufactured by child The VICE PRESIDENT. Fifty Senators haYe answered to labor, when offered to the carrier, may be perfectly innocuous the roll call. There is a quorum present. in regard to · its capacity or incapacity to inflict any future Mr. OVERMAN. Mr. President, I gave notice during the injury to the public health or morals, the facilities of interstate course of my remarks yesterday that I would offer an amend commerce should be denied the producer as a forceful incentive ment. I then stated some reasons for the amendment, which to forbear from a repetition from his malevolent practices. I will not now repeat. Certainly this indirect method of exterminating an evil is as As will be observed, section 7 of the substitute reporte<.l by justifiable in bearing a sufficiently close connection to interstate the Senate committee reads: commerce as is the denial of the use of transportation facilities SEC. 7. That this act shall take effect from and after one year from to the shippers of certain articles on the ground that these goods the date of lts passage. arc designed to or may do harm to the public after the trans I now offer an amendment to strike out the words" one year," portation ·has ceased. in line 2, page 10, and insert in lieu thereof the words " two NEw YonK CITY. years," postponing the time of the taking effect of this bill until two years after its passage. Similar action has been taken in connection with nearly all legislation passed by Congress af THE STRUGGLE CO.:\TI.:\UES. fecting the status of existing institutions. In the case of the The court rea-wakened to the truth of the old maxim of excise law passed for the District of Columbia, as I recall, two the civilians ex factor oritur jus. It realized that no law, years, and perhaps longer, were given to barroom owners in written or unwritten, can be understood without a full knowl which to close out their business. In the case of the car etlge of the facts out of which it arises, and to which it is coupler legislation three years were given to the railroads in to be applied. But the struggle for the living law has not whiCh to adjust themselves to the new conditions, and in the been fully won. The Lochner case has . not been expressly Clayton Act two years were given to the railroads to rearrange overruled. Within six weeks the Supreme Judicial Court of their affairs in accordance with the provisions of that bill. l\1as achusetts, in supposed obedience to its authority, held I want to say, Mr. President, that if the pending bill goes into invalid a nine-hour law for certain railroad employees. (Com effect within one year it will work a great hardship upon the monwealth v. B. & M. R. R. (Mass.), 110 N. E. R., 264.) The cotton factories in my State. Those factories have three great Supreme Court of the United States, which by many deci departments, namely, the carding room, the weaving room, and sions had made possible in other fields the harmonizing of legal the spinning room. In the carding room and in the weaving rights with contemporary conceptions of social justice, showed room only adults are employed. The children are employed in by its recent decision in the Coppage case (Coppage v. Kansas, the spinning room. If this blll goes into effect one year hence, 236 U. S., 1) the potency of mental prepossessions. Long before it will reduce the output of the factories 20 per cent, because it had recognized (see 219 U. S., 570) that employers "and the employees of those factories now work 10 hours a day, and their operatives do not stand upon an equality," that "the legis a reduction of the hours of labor by 2 will necessarily effect lature, being familiar with local conditions, is primarily the that reduction. Those factories have contracted ahead for a judge of the necessity of such enactments" (see 219 U. S., year, and in order to reorganize their plants so that they may 5G9) ; and that unless a "prohibition is palpably unreasonable have an adjustment which will apply evenly in all the various and arbitrary we are not at liberty to say that it passes beyond departments they will have to secure new equipment and ma the limitation of a State's protective authority" (see 238 chinery for the spinning room, and in many instances they will U. S., 452). And in the application of these principles it had have to build new additions to the factory. repeatedly upheld legislation limiting the right of free contract I am told that they can not now contract for new machinery between employer and employee. But in the Adair case (Adair for delivery under two years; and, unless some such provision v. U. S., 208 U. S., 161), and again in the Coppage case (supra), as I have offered is added to the bill, their output will be less it declared unconstitutional a statute which prohibited an em ened, as I have said, 20 per cent; and not only will it lessen ployer from requiring as a condition of his securing or retaining the output but the adult labor will not be able to, work over employment that the workman should not be a member of a eight hours a day, because the carding rooms and the weaving labor union. Without considering that Congress or the Kansas rooms are dependent upon the output of the spinning room, aud Legjslature might have had good cause to believe that such pro under this bill those under 16 years of age will not be allowed hibition was essential to the maintenance of trade-unionism, and to work more than eight hours. If, however, the factories are that trade-unionism was essential to securing equality between allowed two years in which to adjust their affairs, they can employer and employee, our Supreme Court of the United States secm·e new machinery to meet the new conditions. They could declared that the enactment of the antidiscrimination law was do it earlier if they could get the machinery ; but, as I am in an arbitrary and unreasonable interference with the right of formed, it will be impossible for them to do that: In addition, contract. (Louis D. Brande1s in Illinois Law Review, Febru as I have said, they will in many instances have to build addi ary, 1916, pp. 467, 468.) tions in which to house the new machinery. SEVERAJ.. SENATORs. Vote! The VICE PRESIDENT. The amendment offered by the Sen The VICE PRESIDENT. The question is on agreeing to the ator from North Carolina will be stated. committee amendment. The SECRETARY. In the committee amendment on page 10, Mr. ROBINSON. I think there was an amendment to the line 2, it is proposed to strike out the words "one year," anu in Senate substitute offered by the Senator from Colorado [Mr. lieu thereof to insert the words" two years," so as to read: THOMAS]. SEC. 7. That this act shall take elrect from and after two years from The VICE PRESIDENT. It was not offered. the date of its passage. Mr. ROBINSON. Then I withdraw the suggestion. Mr. ROBINSON. Mr. President, it seems to me this amend The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair called the attention of ment should not be agreed to. The provision in the pending the Senator from Colorado to the fact that he had not offered committee amendment postpones the act going into effect for one the amendment. year. I believe that the readjustments of which the Senator .Mr. OVERMA-.~. 1\Ir. President, I gave notice that I would from North Carolina has spoken, and which he says will becorue offer an amendment to the bill, and stated my reasons for it. necessary if the bill is passed, have been greatly exaggerated I think that there are other Senators interested in the subject in their importance. It seems to me one ·year would afford who ougllt to be here, and therefore I suggest the absence of a ample time to obtain such additional machinery, if any is re quorum. quired, as may be made necessary by the passage of tl;lis legis The VICE PRESIDENT. The Secretary will call the roll. lation. The Secretary called the roll, and the following Senators an Mr. HARDWICK. Mr. President, if the Senator will pardon swered to their names : me--- Ashurst liard wick Norris Sterling Mr. ROBINSON. I yield to the Senator from Georgia. Ha.nkhead Hitchcock Oliver Swanson l\lr. HARDWICK. Of course that is the very point involved llrandegec Rusting Overman Taggart Bryan .James Penrose Thompson in this amendment. The Senator from North Carolina has jnst Chamberlain Johnson, S.Dak. Ransdell Tillman stated-and I confess I have no information upon the subject, Clapp Kenyon Robinson Townsend and I want to find out about it-that they can not do it in one t:Iark, Wyo. Kern Sheppard Underwood year; that they can not get the machinery in one year; that Culberson La Follette Shields Vardaman Cummins Lane Simmons Warren it will be impossible; unless you are going to work great hard Curtis Lewis Smith, Ariz. Weeks ship on these people, to put this legislation into effect under two !;'letcher Lippitt Smith, Ga. Works Gallinger Martin, Va. Smith, S.C. years. Has the committee made any investigation of that ques Gronna. Nelson Smoot tion? 1916. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN \.TE. 12307 Mr. ROBINSON. Yes, sir. I was just about to state, when Mr. HARDWICK. I will try to explain it. As I say, my own the Senator from Georgia interrupted me, that that suggestion knowledge of it is very limited, and I will yield to my friend was made by some representatives of those who opposed this from South Carolina to explain it exactly. There is some "\Yay legislation, and the matter was gone into quite at length by the In which the different departments of these factories are coor committee, either in the hearings or in the discussions before dinated that makes it impossible to make changes of the kind the committee Itself when the bill was under consideration. required by this legislation in _any ·one department without af The committee reached the conclusion that there was an at fecting them all. I do not lmow the details of it; but, anyhow, tempt to magnify the effect -upon the industry which would it is claimed that if you enact this child-labor law anil it a.ffeets be wrought by the provisions of this bill. I am utterly unable one of their departments, the others can not be run, under the to understand how it will become necessary, if this l.Jill is present conditions, without readjustm-ent. Whether it is true or passed, that any great amount of machinery shall be purchased not I do not even profess to know. by the e manufacturers, and I do not think this provision is l\1r. Sl\1ITH of South Carolina. 1\.fr. President, will the Sena nece:ssary. tor allow me? l\Ir. HARDWICK. I want to say to the Senator that the 1\Ir. CLARK of Wyoming. Mr. President-- only thing I know about it is that they do contend that there Mr. HARDWICK. Let me yield to my friend from South Caro will have to be considerable machinery readjustment in order lina. I do not know a tbing about the details of this business. to coordinate all the branches and departments of these fac . Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. I just wanted to enlarge the ques tories. Now, what I want to know is not what the Senator or tion a little, which perhaps will reduce the time required to his colleagues think, just on principle, but did you have any answer it. I can not see, really, why putting mature labor in lnve tigation to see whether they can buy this machinery stead of child labor on certain machinery would involve the diffi or not? culty which the Senator mentions. l\lr. ROBINSON. Yes ; we investigated the subject. in so Mr. OVERMAN. Mr. President, I tried to explain that. In far as we thought it neceSsary to investigate it. one room, whieh is called the card room, they work adult labor. l\lr. HARDWICK. Let us see the extent of the investiga l\Ir. CLARK of Wyoming. Yes; and in the third room they tion. Did you ask them whether they could get this machinery work adult labor. ln a year or not? l\lr. OVERMAN. And they work 10 hours a day. Mr. ROBINSON. I do not know that I asked them that Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. And in the center room they work specific question. child labor. l\1r. HARDWICK. Did anybody ask them that question? l\Ir. OVERl\,!AN. Yes. Do the hearings show that? l\1r. CLARK of Wyoming. Now, I can not see-- 1\ir. OVERMAN. If these machines stop at the end of eight 1\lr. ROBIJSSON. l\1r. President, I think the hem·ings dis hours, does not the Senator see that there is a 20 per cent close, at least to the satisfaction of the committee that beard reduction in the output? th~ matter, that no great readjustml:'nt is required. I think Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. Exa.ctly; but it means that if tliey the proposition on its fa(.'e is an unreasonab!e one. To come are working all the time now in the three departments-- into the Senate of the United States and say, merely because 1\Ir. OVERMAN. Yes; they do work all the time. a law has been passed which will in effect compel these manu l\fr. CLARK of Wyoming. And if you cut the hours to eight, facturers to shorten the hours of labor of the few children they you reduce the product that much. employ, that that fact makes it necessary for them to have 1\1r. OVERMAN. Twenty per cent; yes. two years in order to reorganize their plants and their indus-· Mr. CLARK of Wyoming. But the question as to whether b·y, is on its face an unreasonable proposition. you are employing child labor or not does not enter into that, That is all I have to say. as I understand it. 1\lr. HAHDWICK obtained the floor. l\fr. HARDWICK: The Senator will understand that the SEVERAL SENATORS. Vote! hours of labor of chi1dren are affected by this legislation-not Mr. HARDWICK. We are not going to vote just yet. Sen only the character of the labor, but the hours· of labor. ators will get a vote a good deal sooner by not crying "Vote!" Mr. LIPPITT. l\1r. President-- when we are not ready to vote. We are not going to vote until l\Ir. CLARK of Wyoming. I know; but if you substitute I discuss the amendment proposed by the Senator from North other labor for child lab~r I can not see why it makes any dif· Carolina [.1\lr. OvERMAN]. ference. 1\rr. President, if the ·senator from Arkansns had given us Mr. SMITH of South Carolina rose. any facts, or if he had any real information about this question, Mr. HARDWICK. The Senator from South Carolina will I would be willing to follow him-- explain why it makes a difference. . l\1r. ROBINSON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? 1\ir. SMITH of South Carolina. The idea is this: As every Mr. HARDWICK. Just a moment; l~t me finish the sentence. one knows who is familiar with the situation in North Caro I am going to yield to the Senator fully before I take my seat, lina and South Carolina, the amount of labor for these mills is and I wlll tell you why : Because the sooner we get this de- limited. They have divided it up. Here is a diagram showing lectable law, or whatever you please to call it-1 do not know it. In the card room they employ adult lab~r. In the spinnin~ how to characterize it-to the Supreme Court of the United room-the niiddJe room-they employ child labor. In the weav· States, where I am confident it will be overturned, and where ing room-the finishing room-they employ adult labor. The I am confident. that at last a check will be put on attempts at number of hours that the children work is exactly adjusted to this sort of legislation, the better pleased I will be. Therefor~ the output from the card room. The product goes through the if I thought that the amendment of the Senator from North spinning room and into- the weaving room. Now, if you reduce Carolina was not a meritorious one, and was a mere effort to the time of your middle force by three hours, you have got one secure delay, I would my&>lf vote against it, because I want it of two things to do--you have either got to stop your machinl:':t'Y to be der.Jded at the earliest possible mome11t whether or not until you get enough adults from around about in the country and the Congres of the United States can enact legis! tion of this elsewhere, who may or may not be trained to this work, and have character. But I am informed that there is substantial merit still further expense, or you have got to cut do·wn the number in the Senator's contP.ntion and that it will work a real bard of hours of the adults on both sides to conform to the reduction ship for these people to make, within one year, the adjustment.o:; of hours at full time and full labor of the children intermediary. of machinery-in spite of the cavalier way in which the Senator The manufacturers claim that if you will allow them time to from Arkansas seeks to dismiss. it-that will be required by change their machinery so as to adjust themselves to this, they the provisions of this bill. can get enough children to perform that ligl1t, not arduous, 1\ow, that is a question of fact What the truth is I do not labor. It does not require adults. If you will give them time to know. I do not profess to know. But when the Senator from adjust their plants to the new conditions they can do it. They Arkansas, for the committee, just simply says that "we have will have to add more machinery than when the children work concluded that there is no reason for any such thing as this," but 8 hours. They will have to ha\e enough to take care of the and it is pe1·fectly apparent that there has been no particular 10 hours of labor of the adults. inYestigntion of the facts along that line, I do not think the l\Ir. HARDWICK. Now, 1\1r. President, if my friend from Senate has the information that it ought to have. South Carolina will pardon the suggestion--· 1\Ir. CLARK of Wyoming. Mr. President- Mr. LIPPITT. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to me? Mr. HARDWICK. I yield to tl1e Senator. l\1r. HARDWICK. Yes; in just a moment. Let me ask one 1\Ir. CLA.RK of Wyoming. I want to ask the Senator a ques question first, if the Senator pleases. Did these people make tion for information on this particular point. I do not under any representations to tfle Senator from South Caro.lina as to stand just what readjustment will be necessary, and' I should how long it would take them to niter their equipment, and to like to have the Senator explain it. ge~ the necessary machinery to comply with this law? 12308 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--SENATE. AUGlJST 8, 1\IJ.', Sl\liTH of South Carolina. I think practically evm·y l\Ir. LIPPITT. But as to its requiring more than a year, or mill in my State has asked for the two years. Some of them even requiring as much as a yenr, from my own experience in have asked for as much as three years. They say it is prac the business I do not think it will. tically impossible to get the machinery and install it now on Mr. OVERMAN. Mr. President, I want to ask the Senator account of the great demand and scarcity. if he could not easily secure labor, equipped labor, men that 1\Ir. LIPPITT. Mr. President, I should like to say to the had been taught before? Was it not easy to get labor in your Senator from Georgia that the question to which this amend mills, where it will be difficult in the South to get labor? ment relates has been settled in New England on three or four Mr. LIPPITT. All over the country in textile manufacturing uifferent occasions. 'Ve have bad laws of this kind passed, first labor is very scarce indeed, as it is in every industry. re 1\!r. LIPPITT. The Senator yielded to me. 1\Ir. HARDWICK. I do not know anything about it. 1\!r. HARDWICK. I know; but I have the :tloor, and I do not 1\lr. LIPPI'l'T. On the contrary, this measure has been backed want the Senator to cut me off· on a question. What inherent by the idealists and the humanitarians of the country. It is natural right has New England to take the cotton grown in om· the ministers, the 'women, those we sometimes cull the uplifters, :fields and manufactm·e it rather than have our people manufac who have been behind this bill, and it has not been becau c of ture it at home? rivalry in commerce. • . Mr. LIPPITT. I will answer the Senator very plainly. Mr. HARDWICK. Is the Senator going to vote.for this bill? Mr. HARDWICK. You say we drove you out of business. Mr. LIPPITT. I have been in great doubt whether to vote Mr. LIPPITT. New England has no inherent right to any- for the bill or not. I have been very much impressed by the thing that belongs to the South; but I should think, ~!r. Presi argument that it is not for the Federal Government to take this dent, that the Senator from Georgia woulu be just as well power of control of these industries, but the province for the pleased to see mills in the United States of America, located. in States themselves. I have been urged to do it by more people in New England, manufacnu·ing his cotton, as to see it go across my State than any other one measure that has been brought to the Atlantic Ocean to be manufactured in the mills of Great my attention. Among those I may say that there has not been Britain and Germany and Russia, where two-thirds of his whole one engaged in manufacture. crop is manufactured. Of course we have no inherent right in Mr. HARDWICK. I was going to ask the Senator-about that. the matter. Mr. LIPPITT. So far as I know, not a single one, but a very lvlr. HARDWICK. That is not the competition the Senator large number of women, a great number of clergymen and of law was complaining of. It was the southern competition that yers. I think the Senator is entirely mistalten in his remarks. irke pos •ibly entertain such an idea, that the President of the United That is exactly what the President has done in this case, States, whatever motives may have influenced him, could pos nothing more nor less, so far as I know; and I am certainly glad sibly have been influenced by this commercial rivalry business. be did it. He is not engaged in the business at all in a personal way ; it Mr. HARDWICK. Is that the way the Senator con trues could have no personal effect upon him. That part of the Sena that section of the Constitution, that it means the President tor's suggestion is,_ I thi,nk, inapt. may come here priYately and call out one Senator or call out l\lr. PENH.OSE. I wish to make another inquiry of the Sena three or four Senators and sit down and tell them what Con tor if be will permit me. gress ought to do? l\1r. HARDWICK. Yes. Mr. THOMPSON. I know of nothing of that kind happening. Mr. PENROSE. Does the Senator think this method of legis Mr~ HARDWICK. I said just now I do not appro>e of that lation is in accord with the parliamentary traditions of a delib way of doing. ·More than one President has done it. · All erative body for a majority of this Chamber to get behind closed Presidents have done it since my e~erience in public affairs doors and locked doors and have the Executive come down heTe began, if we are to believe what is reported and published. I to the Capitol, who is not a member of the legislative brancll am not willing for you to blame my President more than I of the Government, and tell them what they shall do and what blamed yours. When the conditions were re>ersed President they shall not do? Roosevelt and President Taft undertook to do the same sort 1\lr. HARDWICK. Mr. President, I do not think that the of thing. They were all tarred with the same stick. Tho e conference was behind locked doors. The Senator will find th~ people who think it is wrong for the President to d<> thnt must doors open during this sort of weather at least. But that is condemn it impartially and without any partisanship. If ex neither here nor there. As far as I am concerned, I want to say cuses can be made for the others they can also be made for this: I think it is necessary for all political parties to have President Wil on, as well as for 1\fr. Roosevelt and as for 1llr. conferenceS' or caucuses, or whatever you please to term them, Taft. The fact that the President is the leader of the great . about important measures that are pending. I do not think political party to which he belongs is some excuse if not entire these political parties have a right to embrace in the subject justification for that sort of a position. I assume that the matter of their consideration during these party conferences, President of the United States, whether he is Democrat or measures that are utterly foreign to the declared party policy, Republican, would not come up and lay very strenuous com about wWch there is no established party policy. Still it has mands on Congress. He might suggest in a delightf tactful, been sometimes 191(). CONGRESSION~I\._L R.ECORD-SENATE.. - 123li eight hom·s a day and between certain ages. They stated it LonGE]. In his absence I withhold' my vote. \Vere I at liberty was their purposE> to continue to employ child labor according to vote, I should vote "nay." to the terms of this bill-not in violation of its terms, but in :Mr. STERLING (when his name was called). I have a gen pursuance of the terms of the bilL They stated that labor was eral pair with the Senator-from Nevada [Mr. NEWLANDs], lmt scarce, anyway ; that some of these children were already on this bill I am free to vote, and I vote "yea." skilled laborers in these rooms; and, as a matter of getting Mr. THOMAS (when his name was called). I have a general skilled labor and labor already fitted and trained in this work, pair with the senior Senator from North Dakota [Mr. Mc ·they proposed to continue to employ child labor in these rooms, CUMBER], and therefore withhold my vote. If at liberty to vote, but to employ it according to the terms of the bill. I should vote "nay." Tne trouble comes right there, Mr. President, according to Mr. TILLMAN (when his name was called). I shouhl Hke the statement of these gentlemen to me. TheY said that they to vote "nay,?' but I can not get a transfer of my pair. So I had thoroughly investigated the matter-and I have no doubt will content myself with announcing my pair with tlle Senator about the truth of their statement-and they had ascertained from West Virginia [Mr. GoFF]. that it would be impossible for them within-the course of one year 1\Ir. UNDERWOOD (when his name was called). I have a to secure the machinery necessary to make this change. They said general pair with the junior Senator from Ohio [Mr. HARDING]. that they found that the manufacturers of this machinery were He is· absent and I do not know how he would vote on this par crowded with or )IeCumber Page ,Smith, Ariz. Tillman will Mci,ean Poindexter Smith, -Ga. Underwood Mr. BRANDEGEEl. I give the Senator a chance to do Martine, N.J. Pomerene Smith, Md. Vardaman that when I get through. Newlands Ran ~ dell Smith, Mich. Wadsworth 1\Ir. President, I have no disposition to hurry the mills in O'Gorman Saulsbury Sutherland Walsh making their adjustments if this bill is to pa8s ; but I doubt Owen Sherman Thomas whether even two years would be of any use to them, because I So Mr. OVERMAN's amendment was laid on the table. think that their opinion is, and the opinion of their legal advisers 1\Ir. THOMAS. Mr. President, I offer the amendment of in many instances is, that the law will be declared to be uncon which I gave notice a day or two ago, and ask that it be read. stitutional. So I do not think that they will attempt to adapt The VICE PRESIDENT. The amendment will be read. themselves to the provisions of the law, but will rely upon a dec The SECRETARY. On page 5, line 24, after the word "merid laration of the courts that it is invalid. Were it not for that I ian," it is proposed to strike out the colon and insert a comma should be inclined to gi\e time for any adaptation that might be and the following words : necessru·y if I were satisfied that it is needed; but I am not or any article or commodity the product of any farm whlch is the quite satisfied that it is needed; and in view of the fact that if materiaJ for the product ot any mlll, cannery, workshop, factory, or this law is to be c Mr. LIPPITT (when his name was called). I transfer my PONT], the Senator from Ohio [Mr. IIA1IDING], the Senator from pair with the senior Senator from Montana [Mr. WALSH] to lllinois [Mr. SHERMAN], the Senator from New York [Mr. \V ADs the junior Senator from Vermont [Mr. PAGE] and will v9te. I WORTH]. and the Senator from Idaho [Mr. BRADY], all of whom, Y"ote " yea.., if present, would vote " yea." . · 1\Ir. WEEKS (when :Mr. LoooE's name was called). My I have also been requested to announce the following pairs : colleague fMr. LoDGE] is unavoidably absent. I wish to an The Senator from New Mexico [Mr. CATRON] with the Sen nounce that if he w~re present he would vote "yea." ator from Oklahoma [1\fr. OWEN]; and 1\fr. MYERS (when his name was called). I have a pair The Senator from New York [Mr. WADSWORTH] with the Sen· with the junior Senator from Connecticut [Mr. McLEAN], who ator from New Hampshire [Mr. HoLLis]. is absent. I am authorized to announce that if the Senator Mr. LEWIS. I desire to announce the unavoidable absence from Connecticut were here be would vote " yea." That being of the Senator from New Jersey [1\fr. MARTINE] and the Sen the case, I am at liberty to vote. I vote " yea." ator from Louisiana [Mr. BROUSSARD]. Mr. DILLINGHA]! (when Mr. PAGE's name was called).. I The result was announced-yeas 52, nays 12, as follows : desire to announce that my colleague [Mr. PAGE] is necessarily - YEAS-52. absent from the Senate, and, as has been announced by the Ashurst Gronna Lippitt . Smith, Ariz. Senator fram Rhode Island, he stands paired, but if present Beckham Hitchcock Martin, Va. Smoot Borah Hughes Myers Sterling he would vote " yea." Chamberlain Busting Neleon Stone 1\.fr. JONES (wh.zn Mr. POINDEXTER'S name was called). My Chilton James Norris Swanson colleague Ll\Ir. PoiNDEXTER] is necessarily absent. If he were Clapp Johnson, S.Dak. Phelan Taggart Clark, Wyo. Jones Pittman Thompson present, he would vote "yea." Colt Kenyon Ransdell Townsend Mr. ROBINSON (when 1\fr. PoMERENE's name was called). Culberson Kern Reed Underwood The senior Senator from Ohio [Mr. PoMERENE] is unavoidably Cummins La Follette Robinson Vardaman Curtis Lane Shatroth Warren absent. If he were present, he would vote "yea." Fall Lee. Md. · Sheppard Weeks · Mr. REED (when his name was called):· Making the same Gallinger Lewis Shields Works transfer as on the last roll call, I vote u yea." NAYS-12. Mr. SHAFROTH (when his name was called). I am paired Bankhead Hardwick Penrose Smith:, S.C. with the junior Senator from Washington (Mr. PoiNDEXTER]~ Bryan Oliver Simmons Tillman I am informed that if he were present he would vote "yeJL" Fletcher Overman Smith, Ga. William.s VOTiNG-31. Therefore I am at libe1·ty to vote and will vote. I vote c~ yea." NOT Brady Gore Martine, N.J. Sherman Mr. SMITH of Georgia (when his n:une was called). I have Brandegee Harding Newlands Smith, Md. a general r.air with the senior Senator from Massachusetts Brou..<::sard Hollis O'Gorman Smith, Mich. [Mr. LODGE], and for that reason withhold my vote. If I were Catron Johnson, Me. Owent Sutherland at liberty to vote. I would vote i nay." Clarke, Ark. Lea. 'l'enn. I>age Thomas Dillingham Lodg~ Poindexter Wadsworth Mr. TOWNSEND (when the name of Mr. SMITH of Michi du Pont · McCumber Pomerene Walsh gi\,n was called). I again announce the absence of my colleague Go1f M.cLean Salllsbury [Mr. SMITH of Michigan] and his pair with the junior Senator So the bill was passed. _ from Missom·i .[Mr. REED]. If my coUeague were present, he Mr. ROBINSON. I move that the Senate request a confer would vote '·yea." ence with the House of Representatives on. the bill and amend· Mr. STERLING (when hi:s name was called). Making the ments, and that the Chair appoint the conferees upon the part same annoaneement that I made before with reference to my of the Senate. , · pair, I vote "yea." The motion was agreed to; and the Vice President appointed Mr. SMOOT (when Mr. SUTHERLAND's name was called). I Mr. NEWLANDS, Mr. ROBINSON, and Mr. CLAPP conferees on the desire to announce the absence of my colleague [Mr. SUTHER part of the Senate. LAND] and to state that he has a pair with the senior Senator from Arkansas [Mr. CLA.RKE]. If my colleague were present, he THE MERCHANT MARINE. would vote " yea.'' 1\Ir. SIMMONS. I move that the Senate p1·oceed to the con' Mr. THOMAS {when his name was called). I have a gen~ral sideration of House bill 15455, known as the ship-purchase bill. pail· with the senior Senator from North Dakota [Mr. McCuM The motion was agreed to ; and the Senate, as in Committee BER] and therefore withhold my vote. If I were at liberty to of the 'Vhole, proceeded to consider the bill (H. R. 15455) to vote, I should be compelled to vote against the measure. establish a United States shipping board for the purpose of Mr. THO¥J>SON · (when his name was called). I am paired encouraging, developing, and creating a naval auxiliary and with the senior Senator from Illinois [Mr. SHERMAN]. I am naval reserve and a merchant marine to meet the requirements informed that if be were present, he would vote "yea." I of the commerce of the United States with its Territories and therefore fee_l at liberty to vote. I vote" yea." possessions and with foreign countries ; to regulate carriers by Mr. TILLMAN (when his name was called). Announclng water engaged in the foreign and interstate commerce of the the same pair that I announced before, I transfer that pair United States; and for other purposes, which had been re to the senior Senator from Tennessee [.Mr. LEA] and will vote. ported from the Committee on Commerce with amendments. I vote "nay." Mr. NELSON. Mr. President, I suppose the Senator does not 1\fr. UNDERWOOD (when his name was called). I have a intend to go on with the consideration of . the bill to-night, general pair with the juni-or Senator from Ohio [Mr. IL..BDING] ; does he? but the sPcretary to SPnator IlABDING bas informed me that if . 1\Ir. SIMMONS. No; I do not. I will say to the Senator that Senator HABDING were present he would vote " yea "; and as I I am going to ask unanimous consent to lay the bfil aside tem am for the bill I vote" yea." porarily. I make that request. Mr. VARDAMAN (when his name was called). I have a gen The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there any objection? The Chair eral pair with the junior Senator from Idaho [Mr. BRADY]. I bears none, and the bill is temporarily laid aside. understand that if he were present be would vote as I shall vote, so I vote " yea." MESSAGE FROM THE. ROUSE. Mr. MYERS (when Mr. WALsH's name was called). My col A message -from the House of Representatives by J. C. South, league [Mr. WALSH] is necessarily absent. He is paired with its Chief Clerk, announeed that the House had passed the fol the senior Senator from Rhode Island [Mr. LIPPITT]. If my lowing bills: colleague were present, he would vote "yea." S.1159.. An act authorizing the Secretary of War to grant The roll call was concluded. . the use of the Coos Head Military Reservation, in the State Mr. GRONNA. l have a general pair with the Senator from of Oregon, to the cities of Marshfield and North Bend, Oreg.., Maine [Mr. JoHNSON]. I am informed that if he were present both being municipal corporations, for park purposes; and he would vote for the bill, and I therefore feel at liberty to vote. S. 6308. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Interior to I vote "yea." lease, for production of oil and gas, ceded lands of the Shoshone Mr. TAGGART. I desire to announce the absence of the or Wind River Indian Reservation in the State of Wyoming. junior Senator from Delaware [Mr. SAULSBURY]. If he were The message also announced that the House bad passed the present, he would vote "yea.'' bill ( S. 1351) providing for the discovery, development, and Mr. SMITH of Georgia. I learn that I can transfer my pair protection of streams, springs, and water boles in the desert with the senior Senator from Massachusetts [:Mr. LoDGE] to the und arid public lands of the United States in the State of Cali junior Senator from Louisiana [Mr. BRoussARD], which I do fornia for rendering the same more readily accessible, and for and vote" nay." the establishment of' and mainten~nce of signboards and monu Mr. GALLINGER. I have been requested to announce the ments locating the s:une, with amendments, in which it re unavoidable absence of the Senator from Delaware [Mr. nu quested the concurrence of the Senate. 12314 CONGRESSIONAL REOOR.D-SENA'l'E. AUGUST 8, The me sage furtlle· announce<} that the House had passeu the Anheuser-Busch Brewing Association anu to the 1\Ianufuc the bill (S. r>46G) to open abandone referred to the Committee on Interstate Commerce. NEWARK TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY CELEBR..~TIOX. Mr. PHELAN presented a petition of Admiral R. D. Evans Camp, United States Spanish War Veterans, of Sacramento, 1\Ir. HUGHES. On behalf of the Senator from Alabama ["Mr. Cal., praying for the passage of the so-called Nolan minimum BANKHEAD 1 I report from the Committee on Post Offices and .wage bill, which 'Yas referred to the Committee on Education Post Roads favorably without amendment the joint resolution and Labor. (H. J. Res; 193) authorizing the Postmaster General to pro Mr. GROI\TNA presented a memorial of sundry citizens of vide the postmaster at Newark, N. J., with a special canceling Grand Forks, N. Dak., remonstrating against the enactment of die for the Newark Two hundred and fiftieth Anniversary Cele legislation to provide compulsory arbitration of labot disputes bration, and I ask unanimous consent for its present considera :which was referred to the Committee on Interstate Commerce: tion. A similar joint resolution passe NOMINATIONS. Capt. Samuel J. Morris, Medical Corps. Executive nominations t·eceived by the Senate AttOtlSt 8 . (legis Capt. Jacob l\1. Coffin, Medical Corps. lative of August 5), 1916. Capt. John W. Hanner, l\Iedical Corps. aav Capt. Levy l\I. Hathaway, Medical Corps, PROMOTIONS -rN THE ARMY, Capt. Alexander Murray, Medical Corps. FIELD ARTILLERY ARM. Capt. Philip W. Huntington, Medical Corps. Capt. James D. Fife, Medical Corps. :Maj. Willard D. NewlJill, Field A.J.·tlllery, detailed in the Capt. William A. Powell, l\Ie COAST A.RTILLER~ CORPS. tion required by law. Capt. Robert H. Pierson, Medical Corps. 1\Iaj. Johnson Hagood, Coast Artillery Corps, to be lieutenant Capt. James I. Mabee, Medical Corps. colonel from July 26, 1916, vice.Lieut. Col. Henry H. Whitney, Capt. George P. Peed, Medical Corps. detailed in The Adjutant General's Department. Capt. Ralph S. Porter, Medical Corps. Capt. John L. Hughes, Coast Artlllery Corps, to be major Capt. Henry D. Thomason, Medical Corps. from July 26, 1916, vice Maj. Johnson Hagood, promoted. Capt. Percy L. Jones, Medical Corps. MEDICAL CORPS. Capt. Fred W. Palmer, Medical Corps. Capt. Edward B. Vedder, Medical Corps, To be col.onels 10ith ranT~ f'l·om Julv 1, 1916, to fill originaZ Capt. Henry F. Pipes, Medical Corps. vacancies. Capt. Charles L. Foster, Medical Corps. Lieut. Col. William B. Banister, Medical Corps. Capt. John R. Bosley, Medical Corps. Lieut. Col. Charles F. Mason, Medical Corps. Capt. Robert C. Loving, Medical Corps. Lieut. Col. James D. Glen nan, Medical Corps. Capt. Orville G. Brown, Medical Corps. Lieut. Col. Alfred E. Bradley, Medical Corps. Capt. George F. Juenemann, Medical Corps, Lieut. Col. Euclid B. Frick, Medical Corps. Capt. Joseph F. Siler, Medical Corps." Lieut. Col. Frank R. Keefer, Medical Corps. Capt. Arthur M. Whaley, Medical Corps. Lieut. Col. Charles Willcox, Medical Corps, subject to exami Capt. Theodore Lamson, Medical Corps. nation required by law. Capt. Craig R. Snyder, Medical Corps. Capt. Ernest G. Bingham, Medical Corps. To be lieutenant colonels with t·anT~ fmm J1!ly 1, 1916, to fill Capt. James D. Heysinger, Medical Corps. originalva.cancies. Capt. Lloyd L. Smith, Medical Corps. Maj. William H. Wilson, Medical Corps. Capt. John B. Huggins, MedJcal Corps. Maj. William F. Lewis, Medical Corps. Capt. \Villiam H. Tefft, Medical Corps. Maj. Thomas S. Bratton, Medical Corps. Capt. Llewellyn P. \Villlamson, Medical Corps. Maj. Thomas J. Kirkpatrick, Medical Corps. Capt. William R. David, Medical Corps. Maj. Irving W. Rand, Medical Corps. Capt. Leartus J. Owen, Medical Corps. Maj. Powell C. Fauntleroy, Medical Corps. Capt. Robert l\I. Culler, Medical Corps, subject to examina Maj. James S. Wilson, Medical Corps. tion required by law. Maj. Basil H. Dutcher, Medical Corps, subject to examination To be majors toith ranTc from, July 1, 1916, to fill casual t•acam::ies. 1·equired by law. Maj. Leigh A. Fuller, Medical Corps. Capt. Frank W. Weed, Medical Corps, vice Maj. William H. Maj. George A. Skinner, Medical Corps. Wilson, promoted. . Maj. Carl R. Darnall, Medical Corps. Capt. William A. Wickline, Medical Corps, vice Maj. William Maj. Henry Page, Medical Corps. F, Lewis, promoted. Capt. Howard H. Baily, Medical Corps, vice l\laj. Thomas S. To be lientenant colonels with t·anT~ j1·orn J1.J-ly 1, 1916, to jill Bratton, promoted. casual vacancies. Capt. Harry G. Humphreys, Medical Corps, vice Maj. Thomas Maj. Bailey K. Ashford, Medical Corps, subject to examina J. Kirkpatrick, promoted. tion required by law," vice Lieut. Col. William B. Banister, pro Capt. Paul L. Freeman, Medical Corps, vice Maj. Irving W, moted. Rand, promoted. Maj. Henry A. Webber, Medical Corps, vice Lieut. Col. Charles Capt. William A. Duncan, Medical Corps, subject to examina F. Mason, promoted. . tion required by law, vice Maj. Powell c.-Fauntleroy, promoted. Maj. Jere B. Clayton, Medical Corps, vice Lieut. Col. James Capt. Earl H. Bruns, Medical C9rps, vice Maj. James S. Wilson, D. Glennan, promoted. promoted. Maj. Weston P. Chamberlain, Medical Corps, vice Lieut. Col. Capt. Herbert C. Gibner, Medical Corps, vice Maj. Basil H. Alfred E. Bradley, promoted. Dutcher, promoted. . Maj. Edward n. Schreiner, Medical Corps, vice Lieut. Col. Capt. Clarence Len. Cole, l\1edical Corps, vice Maj. Leigh A. Euclid B. Frick, proiPoted. Fuller, promoted. Maj. Frederick -l\1. Hru·tsock, 1\Iedical Corps, subject to exami Capt. Albert G. Love, Medical Corps, subject to examination nation required by law, vice Lieut. Col. Frank R. Keefer, pro required by law, vice l\laj. George A. Skinner, promoted. moted. Capt. Harold W. Jones, Medical Corps, vice Maj. Carl R. Maj. Douglas F. Duval, Medical Corps, subject to examination Darnall, promoted. required by law, vice Lieut. Col. Charles Willcox, promoted. Capt. Omar W. Pinkston, l\:Iedical Corps, vice Maj. Henry Page, promoted. :ro be majo1·s 'with mnl~ trom July 1, 1916, to jill ot·iginal Capt. Mathew A. Reasoner, Medical Corps, vice l\laj. Bailey K. vacancies. Ashford, promoted, subject to examination required by law. Capt. Charles F. Morse, Medical Corps. Capt. Henry J. Nichols, Medical Corps, subject to examination Capt. Haywood S. Hansell, Medical Corps. required by law, vice 1.1aj. Henry A. Webber, promoted. Capt. Junius C. Gregory, Medical Corps. Capt. Louis H. Hanson, Medical Corps, subject to examination Capt. Clarence H. Connor, Medical Corps. required by law, vice Maj. Jere B. Clayton, promoted. Capt. Jay W. Grissinger, Medical Corps. Capt. Lucius L. Hopwood, Medical Corps, subject to examina Capt. Will L. Pyles, Medical Corps, subject to examination tion required by law, vice Maj. Weston P. Chamberlain, pro required by law. moted. Capt. William 1\I. Smart, Medical Corps. Capt. Charles E. Freeman, Medical Corps, subject to examina Capt. Robert M. Blanchard, Medical Corps. tion required by law, vice Maj. Edward R. Schreiner, promoted. Capt: James Bourke, Medical Corps. Capt. Ferdinand Schmitter, Medical Corps, subject to exam Capt. Samuel 1\1. De Loffre, Medical Corps. ination required by law, vice Maj. Frederick M. Hartsock, pro Capt. Louis C. Duncan, Medical Corps. moted. Capt. Edward 1\1. Talbott, Medical Corps. Capt. Frederick S. l\facy, Medical Corps, subject to exnmina Capt. John A, Clark, Medical Corps. tion required by law, vice Maj. Douglas F. Duyal, promoted. 1916. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. To be captains tcith ranlv ftnm J1tne "1, 1916, after Uwee years' POSTMASTERS. service. CONNECTICUT, First Lieut. Harry L. Dale, Medical Corps, subject to exam- .Albert B. 9oodl'ich, Berlin. ination required by law. FLORIDA. Fir~t Lieut. Alvin W. Schoenleber, Merlical Corps. · FirRt Lieut. Erne!';t C. McCulloch, Medical Corps. Lewis M. Raulerson, Okeechobee. Fir~t Lieut. George R. Callenrler, Me<1ical Corps. . :MASSACHUSETTS, Fi1·~t Lif>ut. Erlwarrl T. B. Weidner, Medical Corps. James J. Hunt, Winchendon. Fir~t Llf>ut. Rnvmond W. Bliss, MerlicaJ Corps. William J. Young, Woburn. Fir~t Lif>ut. Raymonrl C. Bull, Medi<'al Corps. . NEW YORK, First Lieut. Norman T. Kirk. 1\ferlical Corps. William S. Charles, Hornell. Fir~t Lif>ut. Wi11i::tm B. Borrlen. Meclical Corps. Alfred Cox, Hawthorne. First Lieut. Clnrf>n('e R. Bell, ME>rlical Corps. Edward C. El1iott, Orangeburg. F1r ~ t Li0ut. Rolwrt H. Dnenner. Merli('al Corps. Benjamin Franklin, Ovid. First UE>ut. Bertram F. Duckwall, Medical Corps, subject to exnmination requirerl by law. NORTH DAKOTA·. Fi1·~t Lieut. Hnlher~t P. Harris, 1\Iedical Corps, subject to Lillian G. McGinnis, Ellendale. E:'xamination r€'quired by law. · OREGON. APPOINTMENTS IN THE ARMY. Elizabeth Thompson, Nyssa. MEDICAL RESERVE CORPS. PENNSYLVANIA. ~ing, To be first lieutenant.~ in the M erliml RP.sen;e Oorps with rank Martin A.. Clarke Summit. from August 3, 1916. W. F. Packard, New Albany. J,emuel G1·ant Baldwin, of New York. SOUTH D.llrOTA. John Hasting Bell. of Arkansas. .A. Posthuma, Centerville. 1\fax Born~tefn. of Wiscon~in. Jnmes Hnrvey Brothers, of New Jersey. Julius Cnesar Davis, jr.. of Florirla. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Arthur Brf>w~tf>r Emmons. 2d. of Massachusetts. TUESDAY, A'ltgust. 8, 1916. J,emuel Whittington norham, of New York. Leon .Jncohs. of Arhr.omt. . . Tl1e House met at 12 o'clock noon. Arlam Kf>mhle, of the Di~trict of Columbia. The Chaplain, Rev. Hem·y N. Couden, D. D., offered the fol· Alhf>rt Willinm Linclherg, of Tllinois. lowing prayer: Chnrles Dnnif>l T.o('kwood. of California. . We thank Thee, our Father in heaven, that though half the Hf>nry Edmund 1\ff>leney, of New York. world seems to have forgotten Thee, and though the sky is over- . "'illiam ·Austin Mills, of Florio a. cast with dark and ominous clouds, Thou doest live and reign, Arthur Pf'flro Perry. of 1\fas.c:::::r<'hu~etts. and the sun shall surely shine again. Ch::rrle~ WinftE:'ld PE>t'kins. of New York. Hasten the day, ·we beseech Thee, · when the evil" P&Ssions of Hf>nry Dnrlley Prf>scott. of Mas~achus('ttS. men shall have spent themselves, when they shall turn again Snmnel Herhert Ri('hman. of T11inois. to Thee and seek forgiveness, when a deeper love shan come and Alfre<'l Alexandf>r Schwartz. of New York. justice bave its sway, when men shan live together as born of .James Warren Sever. of Mac:::sa<'husetts. Thee, and peace with an its glory 9well in the hearts of all Jf>rome Wagner. of Nf>w York. peoples. In the spirit of the Master, amen. W::rlter Alhf>rt Raf>tier. of 1\far:vlanrl. THE JOURNAL. Chnrles l\fetcalff> Byrn.es. of 1\farynnd. The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday was read. FrNlerirk .To~eph nnrli<'k, of New York. Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Speaker, I desire to correct the Journal. William Morri~ Hanp. of Maryland. The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman desire to correct yes- Thomas Rrantlf>y Henrlf>rRon. of North Carolina. terday's Journal? Willinm Davin .Jack. of Inrliana. Mr. ADAMSON. Yes. John Hf>ndrickf>n King. of Maryland. The SPEAKER. The gentleman wil1 proceed. Nf>wdigflte l\forf>lnnrt Owen~hy, of Maryland. _ Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Speaker, I may be misinformed as to Frank Elliott Perkins. of North Carolim1. exactly. what I want, but I will state it and let the Speaker George William Pres~ly, of North Carolina. decide. H : R. 13718 was reported and is on the House Calendar. Fr::tnk Roxhoromrh Ruff, of North Carolina. Yesterday S. 5202, of exactly the same Import, came over. I H::rrrv Allen S::rclden. of New York. had 1·equested that the Senate bill lie on the Speaker's table, Thf>o~or Brntrurl. of Minnf>sota. and the parliamentarian intended to· let the bill do that, but Ephraim Kirkpntrick Findley, of Illinois. by mistake or inarlvertence It appears both in the Journal and Harry Knott. of Inrlinna. RECORD that the bill was referred to the committee. I desire Louis Rudolph, of Tllinois . . to vacate whatever wa~ done and correct the RECORD and Jour lRaac l\iontroRe Taylor, of North Carolina. nal, because the bill in fact has not gone to the committee yet. Fren Paul Weltn('r. of West Virginia. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Georgia asks to vacate ChnrleR R·horey Butler, of 1\fRs~acl)usetts. the annotation made inarlvertently referring the bill to the Eustace Lincoln FiRke, of 1\lassachusetts. Committee on Interstate and Foreign CommeJ•ce-- Gilbert Horrnx. of New Jersf>y. Mr. ADAMSON. And leave it on the Speaker's table. Paul Hector Provanrlie, of Massachusetts. The SPEAKER. What is the number of that bill? Cyril Gorlfrey Richards. of 1\fa!';sachusetts. Mr. ADAMSON. Senate 5202. Wade Stanley Wright. of Massachusetts. l\Ir. MAl\TN. He also wants to vacate the reference, if it has CHIEF OF BUREAU OF NAVIGATION, NAVY DEPARTMENT. been referred. Mr. ADAMSON. Yes; that is what I asked. Commanrler Leigh C. Palmer to be Chief of the Bureau of The SPEAKER. And the gentleman also desires to vacate Navigation in the Department of the Navy, with the rank of rear the reference. arlmiral, for a term of four years, vice Capt. Victor Blue, re Mr. ADAMSON. And also to correct the REconD and Journal. signed. The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none. CONFIRMATIONS. The Journal as corrected was approved. Executive nominat·ions. conji.1·med by the Senate A'Ltgust 8 MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. (legislative day of August 5). 1916. A message from the Senate, ·by Mr. Waldorf, one of its clerks, announced that the Senate had agreed to the report of the com UNITED STATES ATTORNEY. mittee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses John E. Kinnane, of Bay City, Mich .. to be United States on the amendments of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 16460) mak attorney for the Pastern district. of Michigan, vice Clyde I. ing appropriations for the support of the Army for the fiscal year Webster, whose term expired on August 5, 1916. . ending June 30, 1917. LIII--775