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Masthead Logo The Palimpsest

Volume 69 | Number 4 Article 3

10-1-1988 So We Stayed Together': The aiT Dam Immigrate to Iowa Siang Bacthi

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Recommended Citation Bacthi, Siang. "So We Stayed Together': The aiT Dam Immigrate to Iowa." The Palimpsest 69 (1988), 163-172. Available at: https://ir.uiowa.edu/palimpsest/vol69/iss4/3

This Article is brought to you for free and open access by the State Historical Society of Iowa at Iowa Research Online. It has been accepted for inclusion in The alP impsest by an authorized administrator of Iowa Research Online. For more information, please contact [email protected]. I

we stayed together

WO YEARS AGO I Iowa Governor’s Task Force for AGREED TO HELP spon­ The Indo-Chinese Resettlement, and Tsor two Asian ref­ the Tai Dam began to arrive. In ugee families in Des Moines. As 1979 Ray, Colleen Shearer (then my friends and I helped these fam­ Tai Dam director of Job Service), and Ray’s ilies adapt and grow accustomed aide Ken Quinn (then on leave to ways of living — Immigrate from the State Department) cre­ bureaucracy, winter weather, new ated the Iowa Refugee Service kinds of food, different social to Iowa Center in Des Moines (now called customs — it occurred to me that the Bureau of Refugee Programs, video-recording their experiences headed by Marvin Weidner) and in their own might create a Iowa SHARES (Iowa Sends Help valuable historical document. by to Aid Refugees and End Imagine if someone had systemat­ Siang Bacthi, Starvation). These organizations ically recorded the early impres­ InNgeun Baccam coordinated churches and other sions of the first Norwegians in Soulinthavong, sponsors interested in refugee Decorah or the first Dutch settlers and resettlement statewide, which in Pella! Here was Iowa’s newest Jack Lufkin continues today with the support ethnic group, a group consider­ of Governor Terry E. Branstad. ably different from the Europeans Unlike most nineteenth- and who settled in Iowa. And here was communist troops overtook South early twentieth-century immi­ an opportunity to record through , , and later Cam­ grants who relied solely on the oral historyy methods first-hand bodia. Repercussions of the war beneficence of relatives or friends accounts of new settlers, for future reverberate today as “boat peo­ who had already immigrated, historians and for later genera­ ple’ and other people from Viet­ today’s refugee groups (often fam­ tions of young of Viet­ nam and neighboring countries ily units) usually have a volunteer namese, Laotian, and Cambodian continue to flee persecution and sponsor who helps the refugees descent. Like most groups, South­ oppression and find in the get settled into new living quar­ east Asians will want to know their Philippines, Hong Kong, Indo­ ters, find employment, and learn roots, how their parents and nesia, Malaysia, and . English and other skills needed to grandparents reached America, The United Nations defines refu­ function effectively in American and by what means thev survived gees as individuals unable to five society. Refugees receive various those often difficult first years of in their native country0 due to a forms of governmental assistance. the immigration and assimilation “well-founded fear of persecution’ In all some 10,000 Southeast process. because of “race, religion, social Asians have come to Iowa since The Tai Dam are an ethnic group, nationality, or political the mid 1970s, including some group who lived in the north­ opinion. The Tai Dam’s sor­ 2,600 Tai Dam. This represents western of Vietnam rowful background qualified them about 90 percent of the Tai Dam until the communist Vietminh under this definition; hence thevy now living in America. (Shearer defeat of the French at Dien Bien were able to move to a new home and Ray had decided to originally

Phu in 1954. Opponents of Ho Chi if another country0 would have accept one ethnic refugee group, Minh and allies of the French, the them. to insure compatibility.) Reflect­ Tai Dam were forced to flee to As the plight of the “boat peo­ ing on his governorship in a recent either or Laos after ple’ and other refugees from the biography, Ray felt this “gratify­ the 1954 treatv in Geneva estab- became known in ing” experience “made me think I fished North and South Vietnam. 1975, Iowa governor Ray had done at least something (Most of the Tai Dam who even­ acted on behalf of a plea from an worthwhile during all those tually came to Iowa were those American friend of the Tai Dam jvears.” who had first fled to Laos.) There who worked with them in Laos. Like most other immigrants they settled until 1975, when That same vear Ray formed the before them, the Tai Dam and

WINTER 1988 163

other Southeast Asians faced, and terization of America as an , I did not want to alter the continue to face, interrelated asylum for "oppressed ­ spirit or lyrical feel of certain sec­ problems caused by acute emo­ ity.”) Apparent in the following tions, or remove the metaphors tional stress and fatigue from war interviews are the Tai Dam’s and rich imagery. In the following and oppression, the need to find efforts to adapt to a new culture excerpts, only syntax and gram­ refuge, the loss of loved ones, sep­ while preserving their ethnic mar have been corrected; some aration from family and friends, heritage — a balance all immi­ repetition has been cut. language barriers, and the difficul­ grant groups have struggled to This project represents only a ties adjusting to a new culture. achieve. beginning. It is hoped that under Also like many earlier immigrants, These excerpts were taken from the continuing leadership of the Tai Studies Center in Des Moines recent refugees have come to two extensive oral historyw inter- America with visions of boundless views regarding Tai Dam immi­ more interviews will be con­ opportunity, freedom of expres­ gration and resettlement. The ducted with Iowa’s newest immi­ sion and religion, and social equal­ interviews were conducted in the grants. —Jack Lufkin ity. (They would probably agree native . As edi­ with Thomas Jefferson’s charac­ tor of the complete translated

INTERVIEW 1 tries, every country. But I heard that the gov­ ernor of Iowa, Governor Robert Ray, was interested in our people. So with this quota, we were allowed to come to Iowa. . . . InNgeun: When you first arrived in Iowa, who

met you?✓ Khao: I came in a second group [in November 1975]. Those relatives and friends who had come first went to meet us. Those friends who used to live together at the refugee camp came to Camp Dodge. . . . InNgeun: Did you get the job that was in your profession? Khao: Not reallv, because what I bad studied was harnessing hydro electricity. But this is similar [current job at IBM repairing comput­ khao Baccam (right) first became a refugee when he was ers]. . . . At first I spoke French. . . . I was not seven, fieeing from northwestern Vietnam to . good in English. Even though I have the “My parents moved me frequently, fleeing from war and persecution,” he stated. “I did not know where we were knowledge in the field, communication is very going. I just held onto my ’s hand and she kept on important. I took the job to provide for my dragging me along.” In 1954 they fled to Laos, where he family. Then things got easier. I got used to the grew up and studied electronics. In 1975 he and his language. Friends got used to me, to my family crossed the River to a refugee camp in and accent. Thailand. That November they immigrated to Des Moines. In June 1987 he was interviewed by InNgeun InNgeun: How do you furnish your house, in Baeeam Soulinthavong (left), his cousin. Lao style or the style of people here? Khao: . . . In Laos, we decorated it in one way InNgeun Baccam: Why did you choose to and here we decorate it in another style. For come to America instead of other countries? example, the sofa: in Laos, it s made of bam­ Khao Baccam: Oh, we did not know which boo; here it s made of foam. country we were going to at first. Everybody InNgeun: Do you like it, the style? was very confused about where to go at the Khao: As a man, I don’t know much about it. time, because during the fall of Laos no one had It’s my wife who has decorated. accepted us as refugees from Laos. So we InNgeun: Did you buy all of the decoration stayed together. had leaders here? who had asked permission to go to many coun­ Khao: Yes, everything we bought here.

164 THE PALIMPSEST InNgeun: Do you have anything brought over not used to meeting a foreigner, especially an from there? Asian. It’s even more difficult for them and me Khao: No. Nothing at all. I remember all I had to communicate. 1 have tried to solve the prob­ left with me at the time of coming over was one lem, reading newspapers out loud, listening to hundred dollars. We spent it at Fort Chaffee the news and repeating after them. Sometimes [Arkansas, where refugees first arrived]. It was at home, I read out loud and record it on a tape, gone by the time I got to Iowa. and re-listen to it, to see if I can understand it. InNgeun: What about food and cooking? What Anything I couldn’t understand myself, I kind of food do you mostly eat? American food would find it [in a dictionary] and say it over or Tai Dam food? and over again. . . . My tongue is not as flexi­ Khao: Food is prepared and cooked the way we ble as when I was young. Unlike younger chil­ ate in Laos. Mv children sometimes eat ham- dren — they go to school [here], watch TV, burgers, but we older people still eat the food they already know how to speak the language. like it was prepared in our country. . . . When InNgeun: When you were in Laos, before you there’s a party, I eat the way our people eat. came here, did you know how to speak Eng­ Mostly we have mum, chup-nor, chuphak, lish? khoua, keng, and khaou-pun. Khao: [From a class at school] I learned gram­ InNgeun: About school: after you got here, in mar and vocabulary, but I didn’t speak. . . . It the United States, what school did you go to? was easy just to learn, but it’s a really different Khao: Many places, because I wanted to know situation when you speak to a real American. the language, the pronunciation and the com­ InNgeun: Do you still use our Tai Dam lan­ munication. I have not got it yet. I have gone to guage?

night school at North High in ESL [ English as a Khao: I trv.✓ I will try* to use the Tai Dam lan- ], Iowa State University in guage for the rest of my life. Because Tai Dam their language class. people have been refugees in so many coun­ InNgeun: Are those schools and programs for tries, we have lost part of our language. It was refugees only? mixed with the , as a Khao: Those classes and programs are for new­ result of our being refugees in Vietnam. In comer refugees who want to learn the lan­ Laos, again the same thing happened. Bight guage, how to communicate in English. They now, I am speaking Tai Dam mixed with Lao. had them for free. . . . And now that we have been here [in Iowa] for InNgeun: What are the problems that you ten-twelve years, we are and will be using have encountered? English in our language. Now, my children Khao: . . . I found out that when I am looking can’t understand the Tai Dam language that for a job, the most important thing is the lan­ well when I speak to them. Because of the guage or communication. It’s one of the biggest reasons above, I like to have dinner or eat problems which prevents refugees from ob­ together with them and make them speak in taining jobs. It’s because I have to talk, not Tai Dam. write, all the time. InNgeun: Your littlest child, the youngest — InNgeun: Have you found a way to solve this do you speak English or Tai Dam to him? problem and, if so, how did you do it? Khao: Mv wife is a Laotian. When he, mv Khao: To solve this problem, 1 needed a lot of child, is with me I speak to him in Tai Dam, but time. For example, there were customers who when he is with his mother, she speaks Lao to could not understand me. Because Iowa is not him. He ends up hearing three languages. one of the biggest states, Iowans do not have Television taught him the English, plus his opportunities to meet people from different sisters speak to him in English. My children, parts of the world. Unlike people in New York when I speak Tai Dam or Lao to them, they or Chicago or L.A., the Iowans have a more don’t comprehend it that well. difficult time understanding me. hen I go out InNgeun: In your house, do you have any Tai of on an assignment — to small like Dam hooks or handwritten manuscripts? Creston or Winterset — the people there are Khao: Yes, I do have a computer that I use to do

WINTER 1988 165 you find the segregation among yourselves? Khao: No, nothing like that. We will have the same culture, language, no one has divided into higher or lower class. We treat one another the same. When there is a death in a family, everyone comes to help out. It’s one ol the characteristics of Tai Dam society. I might say it’s a good one. InNgeun: In your point of viewr, do you think that the refugees here are prejudiced towards the native-born Americans here? Khao: In my point of view, I don t think so. The younger people here do go out with their American friends. Some even get married to Vietnamese refugees land in Des Moines about 1981. Americans. And they have not had any prob­ lems. In conclusion, I say we can live together. programs in Tai Dam. I’m trying to preserve InNgeun: Where you are living right now, are the Tai Dam books and language. there a lot of Tai Dam families living nearby? InNgeun: What kind of books do you have? Khao: In this area, there are five or six families Magazines or what are they? living here. There’s my brother’s house, Mr.

Khao: They✓ are hooks from Tai Studies Center, Houng s house, Mr. Phoung’s; next block there song hooks, newspapers. is Mr. Pheng’s house, Mr. Cheu’s, Mr. Kham- InNgeun: About clothing and dressing, do you tanh’s, and Mr. Done’s house. try to teach [your children] to dress as in the InNgeun: Did you intend to live close by your old time? people or did it just happen? Khao: . . . For mvself, I would like for them Khao: It just happened. But it’s good to be able once in a while to dress in traditional Tai Dam to live close to each other. But we can’t choose. dress. For now they dress only in Western It all depends on the circumstances. If we style, jeans and shirts just like the Americans could build a village like Ban Song Khua, Ban here. To have them dress in Tai Dam,* they / Hong Seng [village in Laos], it would have don’t have it. To dress in Lao, they don’t like been better. it. . . . InNgeun: Why would you want to live only InNgeun: Have you any regrets about coming with Tai Dam people? to Iowa? Khao: Living together, we will be able to keep Khao: No. I have not any regrets. On the con­ or preserve our language. The children will trary, I was lucky to have the chance to come speak Tai Dam. It will help us preserve our and live here. Leaving our home, our country culture. If we live mixed with other people, — yet I still found a new one, therefore I have and when we have any special ceremonies, and no regrets. Only memories in the homeland, too many relatives come over, we feel concern which make me think and miss home. Any-* for our [non-Tai Dam] neighbors, we feel like thing else, I am pretty happy with the situa­ we are being inconsiderate. tion. InNgeun: In the future, what do you think you InNgeun: The native-born Americans here, and your family will become? Will you be able no matter black or white, how do they treat to maintain Tai Dam characteristics or will you, with dignity or not? you become Americanized? Khao: Some people do not, but I have not met Khao: 1 think I will still be a native Tai Dam, one person yet who is prejudiced. It’s only a but for my children’s generation, I don t think few. Everyone/ that I have met and talked to has so. They live here, they eat here. I hope they treated me nicely.* I don’t have this kind of stay the same, but we can’t stop the circum­ problem. stances. We will just have to let go. InNgeun: What about among your people, do InNgeun: How about the preservation of Tai

166 E PALIMPSEST Dam history, the old manuscripts or culture? nists] because former high officers, high-level How do you feel about that? such as ministers, from Laos were dispersed, Khao: If possible, it’s one of the most important and were showing no signs of fighting. [All things for the Tai Dam people. . . . We should these] led my heart to come to other countries. try to work on the Tai Dam scripts and teach “Which country would be best to go to? I people how to read them. Whoever has done thought over and asked myself when I got all anything about it, I congratulate them, send my family with me. When we stopped fighting, them compliments for having a heart to pre­ we lost hope of going home. All I could do was serve Tai Dam heritage, Tai scripts, and Tai come to America, the most important place or culture. But whatever part of the culture is the end [the top] of the world. A lot of friends good, let’s keep it; what’s bad, let’s forget it. asked me to go with them to , France, New Zealand, Canada, . Thinking it over, if a war has to break out again, we might INTERVIEW 2 have to move again. If we go we would rather

PHOTO BY JACK LUFKIN go right to the end. There were already a lot of Tai Dam and relatives living in Iowa or Amer­ ica here. That’s why I presented myself to American officers in the camp. InNgeun: How about Aunty? Did you come after Uncle’s decision, or did you take part in the decision? One Lo Thi: I had the same opinion as your Uncle’s. My parents were here in Iowa. InNgeun: Why did you choose Iowa, instead of other states such as , Hawaii, et cetera? Vong: There were two reasons for me to come to Iowa. The first reason was that I have my in­ laws and mv own relatives, whose name is “Lo,” who had been living in Iowa before and had sent money to help us out in Thailand for four vears. The second reason was when I arrived in America, I did not have anv skill in the . I had to depend on my As a soldier, Vong Lo Van (right) fought at Dien Bien Phu own strength. Iowa is an agricultural state, in 1954, and continued fighting the communists in Viet­ where there’s farming and gardening. I nam and Laos for over two decades as his wife, One Lo thought I still had strength to do a farming job. I hi (left), raised their eleven children. In March 1981 For the first year, I worked [detasseling] in a they fled from Laos to a Thailand refugee camp, where cornfield near Mt. Pleasant. they lived until immigrating in 1984 to Des Moines. This interview took place in April 1987. (Lo and One are not InNgeun: At the camp, what did you think you related to interviewer InNgeun Baccam; the terms would find when you arrived in Iowa, concern­ Aunty” and "Uncle denote respect.) ing the state, the people, weather, country, et cetera? InNgeun Baccam: Why did you choose to Vong: I knew for certain that there was a lot of come to the United States over other coun­ snow. I also knew that there would be a lot of tries? You had hoped to go back [to Laos from problems in working, social [customs], trans­ Thailand], hadn’t you? portation. Everything would be hard because Vong Lo Van: . . . When I arrived [in March it’s different from our country. But when you 1981 at the refugee camp] in Thailand, I saw arrive and with effort, you would overcome the situation differently from mv earlier view- these problems. . . . point [of returning to Laos to fight the commu­ InNgeun: Do you think the American and Tai

WINTER 1988 167 Dam people in America are different from tives and friends who rushed to welcome, em­ what you thought? braced and hugged us. . . . I was then very Vong: I saw a big difference between the Tai skinny, just like a fish bone. . . . My mother people who came earlier [in the mid 1970s] and cried, my younger sister did too, my uncles and the newcomers. First, for the social matters aunts also cried. They then [took] us to our such as clothes and behaviors. The ones who sponsors’ car. . . . We came out [of the air­ came earlier were confident, radiant and port], oh, we never saw [anything like this] happy. For the newcomers, they dressed dif­ before. All was white. I was surprised. ferently,✓ 7 their faces were skinny j — because InNgeun: Before anything, what did you do? these two worlds were very/ far away / from each Vong:. . . The sponsors explained how to go to other. the hospital. Naturally, when we arrived in a One: . . . [My daughter and four grandchil­ new atmosphere and climate, we had to fight dren] didn’t get to come along [from Laos to for our health, we had to see doctors, have Thailand] because the [accomplice] was in a physical exams. Secondly, we looked for hurry and couldn’t get them all. I dropped schools or where to study language and skills. my tears crossing [the Mekong River]. At the InNgeun: How about you, Aunty, do you [Thailand] camp, whenever our beloved rela­ remember? tives [in America] sent [money] over to us, we One: Yes, 1 remember. When we arrived, our then had a chance to go to the market for food sponsors found us a home. About three or four for our kids. One egg was divided into four or days later, they took us for medical exams. five portions. Right after those exams, they took us to the I’m still mentioning it. Now we buy eggs by flower house [Botanical Center in Des the box. “Kids, do not eat too much. One egg Moines]. They took your uncle and daughter to used to be eaten by four or five people, says study* for six months. I was not allowed to. I their grandmother, just like a legend. stayed✓ at home and looked after the kids. After InNgeun: What did you study [at the refugee six months of study, they looked for a job for camp in Thailand]? your uncle. . . . The sponsors asked for food One: We learned ways in America, learned stamps for us and assistance for our rent. how to use the toilet, where to go, look for The food stamps were enough to buy food. For signs, how to store food in the refrigerator, how the car, our sponsors provided for us: “Take the to talk on the phone. . . . cheap one, because you haven’t got a perma­ InNgeun: Who were the instructors? nent job.’ Then I saved some money to pay One: [The high administrators of the camp] back our sponsors. hired outside instructors, . Just like InNgeun: Do you remember what you ate? you, all were young ladies. Some were very One: Rice! Everything I like, we had them all mean, very rude. Some were very good: there. My son, my nieces, my granddaughters Mom, ii you don’t understand, don’t worry. brought the food, much more than we could It s to just remember a few words. Some put in the refrigerator, we put them outside in were very mean: “Old witch, why don’t you the cold. . . . Our Tai Dam people looked in on remember? You will die in America. You will us for everything, such as silverware, die if you don t know how to spend money. appliances. Our Tai Dam relatives, families, We learned how to spend money (they gave us gave us everything, clothes or linens. After a dollar bills) and how to go for groceries and while, 1 started looking for a job and got one. shopping. . . . “To shop, there are carts to put InNgeun: Comparing the living, in this house in all of what you need. If you [carry items in and the house you used to live in in Laos or our your pockets] they will see and [think you are country, what are the differences? hiding them].” Vong: About the differences of living here, InNgeun: When you arrived in America, what there are food, [running] water, elec­ was going on? tricity. . . . Renting this house, we have land One: . . . When we arrived and touched earth to grow a garden, because our people like to [in December 1984] there were a lot of rela­ have a backyard garden. Living here is very

168 THE PALIMPSEST mW%m

(/) Laos. We just tried our best. InNgeun: When you first worked, did you have intentions to work temporarily or for a long time?

One: Before 1 worked I had set my✓ mind to 2 work until my retirement. Vong: To work temporarily or permanently, we couldn’t decide, it depended on our health. We had to ask ourselves if we had enough strength to work on the job. Or if there is a Tai Dam immigrant Somsak Saythongphet, center, better job. Like all human beings, we have to smiles at a citizenship party. look for high places, not like water that flows comfortable, there is electricity, heating, air down hills, right? Water goes wherever is conditioning, a refrigerator, freezer, fans. This lower,* but always ✓ look for betterness. is the best for human beings, compared to the Wherever is better, we should try to get there. standard of living in Laos. . . . That’s the theory [laughing]. One: . . . Over there, if you earn enough and InNgeun: The job you had been trained for own a house, that is it. Here, it’s different. You before, couldn’t you find it here in America? have to set apart money for the house, water Vong: About my profession: . . . I was a physi­ and electricity payments. If you ve never done cian in the army, referred to by the French as a it before, it’s kind of hard, but when you live medical assistant. Comparing that profession many years longer, you try to get [save] money to here, I can’t do it, because they use comput­ for the house, water and electricity, because ers. The computer will do the tests and diag­ you are afraid not to have money for them when nosis, and people will follow the computer. they re due. That’s the difference. That’s not what 1 learned before. I had been InNgeun: When you first came, what were working in the medical field for more than your first jobs? twentv years. . . . One: When I said I would like to work, our InNgeun: Uncle, where did you go to study? relatives took me to Job Service. I told them Vong: I went to PROTEUS [in Des Moines, a that I would like to work at a fabric-cutting publicly funded, nonprofit employee training company [Bob Ellen Companies, Inc.] where program for the disadvantaged, especially for­ my daughter had been working. The Job Serv­ mer farmers] for six months [in 1985]. . . . ice staff was a Hmong [another Southeast Asian There are Tai Dam, Khmers, also Mexicans, ethnic group]. He took me there to apply and and many nationalities studying together. take a test. Since then I worked there for one InNgeun: What did you learn? year and three months. Vong: Conversation, reading, writing. \ ong: About me, I still work at my first job InNgeun: . . . Was it hard to study? [Container Recovery, Inc.). I’m old but still Vong: It wasn’t hard at all, because the govern­ work. Talking about working here, nobody ment paid us to study [laughing]. It’s not like in forces you to [accept or take a particular job]. our country. Over there we had to buy our own And people don’t like being forced by other books and tuition. Here, the government paid people. That’s why we re here. People like us to study,/ * more than three dollars an hour. being forced, but forced by ourselves [self- InNgeun: How many hours a day did you motivation]. . . . study? InNgeun: Do you mean the jobs you’re both Vong: I studied eight hours a day. . . . Each working at now are not the jobs you learned [in program is for six months only. If you want to Laos]? You’ve been trained here? continue, you have to apply to the govern­ \ ong: I hese jobs are new and we’ve never ment for more funds. . . . You have to look for learned them before. a job after enough studying to become self- One: We 1 earned them here. We never sufficient. learned, never saw [these kinds of jobs] in InNgeun: How about you or your generation?

WINTER 1988 169 : e ak n a Dm o ore Some­ ofcourse. Dam, Tai in talk We One: kidsthe howDoteachtoyou try tospeak Tai countries,we have didn't a chance to bring [Tai Since .weescapedVong:lived and . newin . you do script: Dam Tai the About InNgeun: COURTESY OF BUREAU OF REFUGEE PROGRAMS anything. don’t Iunderstand English, inme remember, remember, dont “you just reply,] [they you,’ taught “I timesyoungest the ourdaughters,one talks to haveany hooks or scriptsin TaitoDam read? usin English. And I yell at “Donthem, t talk to Dam? hi aet. . . . . parents. their peopletoread. But there are some writings.Especially our Tai dctd Becauseeducated.1 amignorant, teaching my Damhistorybooks] Allout.abandoned.were n : . . Thisiscountry . verv advanced, .veryOne: InNgeun:nowWe re coming backtothe kids. H ow do you raise them and disciplinethem?and them How raiseyoudo didn’tget toschool. Iraise you uptill now and kids is “Please,tellingsince studyhardthem: Damassociations have published books for our happiness, Ieducation. was ignorant becauseI thiscountrylothasa of opportunities,riches, AHmong woman about 1979, arriving Moines. Desin I^ % \ * % \ I i S ^ V . - * •• - *' ' •• . NV/ . / " •v - • V [laughing] o hlrn teach Nowchildren These are the lovesThesethe areof ourTai Dampeople. ateAmericans. thewith children, girlsor boys, togetclose and associ­ o prto ta Aeias tuy speaking. truly Americans, thancooperation InNgeun: This question is not about being only Vong:Itakeit as Inatural.feel rather good, in eat,a lot of cars are around here andWethere. there anythinglike this?there don’tlike you flirting with American boys.” Is each to closeother. very houses, eight with area this in now We away. re thrown be couldn't weddingfor two days. orthree We gather, we preparingtheeachother help we But us, go. wheneverthere’s a wedding. If invited we will stillorweddings.people Our stick tocustom, therechurch, are Tai Dam religion gatherings, es n mrcn dnt o u wt hm I him, with out go don’t American, he’s an teaching: “Mythekid, How aboutInNgeun: Dam Tai the between love the of because Vong: Nowstill Ihave here,samethe feeling, about weekends. Instead of working of after or Instead weekends.about hav e stronger social ties, a stronger lovestrongerand a social strongerhave ties, y pno. eas big ee I at my want I here, Because beingmy opinion. o l lo wog on look wrongwould manyinthisDamarea? Tai InNgeun:Now in America,do you live close to When theyasked, will know how to show. Mv t l d ti i Ds ons Te Americans The Moines. Des in this dostill know people Our birth. a death, sickness, a Vong: Mostof people goodareour atsocializ­ o t ahrad ok fe ah te. We look other. each after and gather tohow youngest daughter already knows how to show. knowdon theyt because anywon be Theret ing.We look after each other whenever there is n: e, e rpr fr hs occasions. those for prepare we Yes,One: Vong:About the costumes: the Tai Dam nowa­ It’sverydifferentfrom them.teach can Laos. One:There won’tbe any, after our generation. won’t generations grandchildren’s the and in a while,when parties are or there reunions? howmakethem.to inwasarriveAmerica. It lotwithaof difficul­ daysstill donot themletgo, because there are peoplewhocomestraight from just coun­our InNgeun: Do you want to add anyth anyth ing, add to want you Do InNgeun: keep the Tai Damthekeep oldfashion of costumes. InNgeun: If we themteachto themwear once try.After my generation,for thesure, children is Blee ead td ad’ That’sallhard.’ I study Believeand me ties. Uncle?culture? About our / / * * 1 1 [iudrtn us] [misunderstands ✓ * friends, but flirting as boyfriends or girl­ friends. Vong: No, I don’t set them apart. If they love each other, with black Americans, or white Americans, or Chek [Chinese ethnic] or Chi­ nese, that’s their business. InNgeun: Aunty, how do you feel? One: I want our people as daughters-in-law. InNgeun: [laughing] Mostly, every mother would say so. . . . Talking about visitors or friends coming to our house, I don’t mean our Tai Dam people [but] all other nationalities. How do you feel? Do you feel happy to wel­ come them? Vong: This concerns respect and culture. . . . I here is happiness and radiance because we have friends and relatives visiting. We will try to make those friends happy and satisfied with us. Following our Tai Dam traditions, we have to welcome, to entertain, and to feed them. That’s our Tai Dam way. Many more people coming will be best. . . . But [Americans] are COURTESY OF BUREAU OF REFUGEE PROGRAMS different. Following their ways, they tell in Seuang KaVanh and child arrive in Des Moines in 1979. advance how many people will eat, how many will come. But us, we don’t have to. From our traditions. On the good side, we do have more lai Dam traditions since long time ago, if doctors now, and five years from now, there there s a lot of relatives coming, that’s much will be more. And the traditional culture is better. . . . At least, the very least, you have to preserved by old people. It will disappear offer tea. When going into somebody’s house later. . . . and there’s no water offered, there will be bad InNgeun: Aunty, five or ten years from now, talk around: ‘‘Going to that house, there’s no do you think our Tai Dam people will hold water to drink!’’ Have you ever heard [that their hair-bun on top [a sign of marriage] or expression]? still dress in their black skirts? InNgeun: Yes, what’s the meaning, please tell One: After my generation, hair-buns will be no me? more. Even the language will be spoken differ­ \ ong: Now you’re a young girl, you need to ently. When the next generation marries, they prepare for it. If there are relatives coming — will tell their waves or children that their moth­

with big glasses, fill only one third of it, not ers were Tai Dam, how thev/ dressed. They / w ill much. tell, but won’t dress like us. One: Oh, that’s old tradition. We don’t do it Vong: Five years from now, there will be no anvmore.w distinction between Tai Dam and other peo­ N ong: That’s our tradition. ple. For now, we still can tell who’s Tai Dam

InNgeun: Even if we don’t do it anvmore,✓ ' I because of the hair-bundle on top and black want to know. skirt for people over fifty years old. But for ^ ong: . . . If you fill the w7ater glass full, it younger people, . . . they just dress like local means you chase them out. . . . If I fill it less, it [American] people. Everything is changing so means that I want you to come often. fast, let alone our children’s generation. So InNgeun: Now7 let’s talk about the Tai Dam American people won’t be able to tell who’s Tai future in America. Dam; thev will onlv know7 that we are Asians. ^ ong:. . . Since we’ve been here for ten years, InNgeun: This question is more political. If there has been a big change, in education and Laos became a democracy again, would you

WINTER 1988 171 brother, saying: Dear sister, I am so poor here, if you have enough to help our mother and my family, please send me some clothes. Our mother won’t go into the earth until she sees you/ first. . . . She loved youj so much. missed you so much, she won’t be able to go into the earth if she doesn’t get to see her youngest child one more time. I have tried to find you, to have news about vou. Now that 1 have letters and news from you, thev are to me more precious than silver and gold.’ They are very poor over there. We are poor too, here — still we have enough to eat and enjoy life. But however happy we are here, we can’t forget our people over there. Younger generations, five or ten years from now, might not know, not understand all these things. They might know that they are Tai Dam but not how miserable their people are. InNgeun: That’s true and possible. But the only way to prevent it depends on older people to keep on telling, orally or by scripts, how our Seated at a loom on display at the Historical Building, history, our culture, and our people were. If Toui Baccam wears a traditional Tai Dam black skirt, silver-buttoned blouse, and kout-piay headpiece. not, our Tai Dam people will be no more, just like many other nationalities. . . . Do you want to go back? . . . If you did not have to think preserving our scripts and language is fight, for example, and our country had important? turned back to democracy and everybody was Vong: Plainly talking, if you think it’s impor­ allowed to go hack because it belonged to us, tant, it is, and if you think it’s not, then it isn t. would you want to stay there or just visit? There are two aspects — first, if you think that

Vong: First of all, I would visit. . . . I don't the Tai Dam countryJ is still i our ' ' country, * it s think I would stay because I have already reset­ absolutely important; and if you don’t care tled here and my children growing up here about our Tai Dam country, it’s not important. would not go with me. As for my generation, We will be new people, such as all American we would go for political or democratic deliber­ people from England became Americans and ation, not by force. But if there was a chance of built up their new country. D fighting, 1 would go too. This is my cause, I fled not to run away from my country, but to go back to fight. SOURCES AND ACKNOWLEDGMENTS InNgeun: How about Aunty? Special thanks to Wayne Johnson (Assistant Director. Bureau of Refugee Programs) and other staff members; One: I want to go back to my country. Decades and to Loren Horton (SHSI) for help with interview won t make me forget. questions. Copies of the videotape are available at the lai Studies Center and Bureau of Refugee Programs, Des InNgeun: Is your mother still living in Tai Moines. Complete English transcriptions are at the Tai Dam country? Studies Center and SHSI. The purpose of the Tai Studies Center is to promote Tai Dam heritage and integration ol One: My mother wrote me letters. She’s still the Tai Dam into the American mainstream. alive, but my father has already died. She rec­ Sources include Jon Bowermaster, Governor. An Oral History of Robert Ray (Ames, 1987); “Tai Dam History ommended to my nephew: “I won’t die till I (unpublished, no date); “The Tai Dam: Nowhere To hear news from my youngest daughter. Go and Stay, slide presentation written hv Siang Bacthi, edited by Ginger Murphy (1988); Stanley Karnow, Vietnam. A r\ to find her for me. Send me news as soon as History (New York, 1983); and Jerald Starr, ed., The on. find her.’ That’s how we got letters from Lessons of the Vietnam War” (Center for Social Studies, her als j irom my nephew’s father, or my 1988).

172 THE PALIMPSEST