Hip Hop, Memory, and a City – an Oral History Project

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THEY REMINISCE: HIP HOP, MEMORY, AND A CITY – AN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Oral History Interview with

UPTOWN XO

By Donelle Boose

American University, Washington, DC

October 10, 2013

1 THEY REMINISCE: HIP HOP, MEMORY, AND A CITY – AN ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

NARRATOR: Uptown XO (Jamaal Walton Youngs) DATE: October 10, 2013 INTERVIEWER: Donelle Boose PLACE: Professor Kathleen Franz’s office, Battelle Tompkins Hall, American University, Washington, D.C.

PERSONAL DATA Birthdate: July 10, 1985 Spouse: Occupation: Hip Hop artist

SUMMARY OF INTERVIEW

This is an hour-long interview with Washington, D.C. Hip Hop artist Uptown XO also known as Jamaal Walton Youngs. He describes his experiences growing up in the city, especially in northwest Washington and Prince Georges County’s neighborhoods. He contrasts experiences of working and the upper middle classes in the city as he experienced them. He makes direct reference to the experience of growing up as a Black kid and interacting with others who were not. He explains the development of his art, which is Hip Hop and offers a context for its development in the D.C. metropolitan area. He describes his art as documenting events and culture of the city.

INTERVIEWER'S COMMENTS

There is a background journal for this interview. It includes an appendix of images of the interviewee as well as images of certain objects directly referred to in the interview.

This interview can be freely shared under the terms of a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License.

INDEX TERMS

D.C. history, D.C. Hip Hop history, D.C. education, D.C. fashion, poverty in D.C., Go-Go, Black youth experiences in DC, Northwest Washington D.C., Howard University, Gil Scott-Heron, Murch Elementary School, U street, racism, youth and crime, New York Hip Hop, Maryland suburbs, Prince Georges County, Greenbelt MD, Laurel MD, Diamond District, Oddisee, yU, Bar Nun, open mics, Wale, Charles Keys, Kenny Burns, D.C. culture, open mics, gentrification, the Young Senators; African American history

2 They Reminisce: Hip Hop, Memory and A City-- Oral History Project

Transcription of Interview with Uptown XO on at October 10, 2013

DB: Ok, so today is October 10th--

XO: Hmhmm

DB: 2013. We are at American University, Battelle Hall, and I am Donelle Boose and I am here speaking with--

XO: Uptown XO [laughs].

DB: Also known as?

XO: Jamaal.

DB: [laughs] What's your last name Jamaal?

XO: Jamaal Walton.

DB: Jamaal Walton, okay. And do I have your permission to record this interview?

XO: Yes you do.

DB: Excellent, excellent.

XO: [laughs]

DB: We have to have the formalities to start off. But I really want this to be a relaxed conversation about your life because you have incredible art—

XO: Thank you.

DB: and I want to give you the opportunity to just talk about that and talk about your life and how your life relates to the art that you do.

XO: Ok.

DB: But before we do that let's just kind of start off with the basics right—

XO: Mmmhmm.

DB: So, who is Uptown XO?

3 XO: Uptown XO is--is like what I became. What I created, [laughs] basically. Uptown XO is just a lot of things. [laughs] It's hard to add to that. [laughs].

DB: Okay, well let's do it like this. Let's take it from the beginning—

XO: Because I'm so many, I'm so many things. It's like where do I begin when you ask that. Do you know what I mean?

DB: mmmhmm.

XO: It's like where do I begin?

DB: Let's begin with your name? What's your full name?

XO: Jamaal. Walton. Youngs. Jamaal Walton Youngs, and "Jamaal" is Arabic for "handsome." "Walton," shout out to Wal-Mart, the Waltons. They own Wal-Mart, so I guess my folks was on the plantations of the Waltons [laughs] back in the day. And "Youngs," my father--he plays--both of my parents are musicians. My father played with Gil Scott-Heron, was touring with Gil Scott-Heron, he played the drums. My mother played the clarinet and saxophone. And they both went to Howard University. They had a young relationship, and I came. Both of my parents are musicians so I just grew up around music, going to rehearsals--rehearsals after rehearsals. Like after school, I'm going to a rehearsal. Both of my parents are musicians so that's how it was, music. You know?

DB: Did you perform with them?

XO: Not with my parents, but I just was inspired to--You know I was in the band, I was in the choir, at church when I was young, and stuff like that. I was in the band in elementary school. I played trumpet and piano and a little bit of drums as well. So yeah.

DB: So a musical heritage?

XO: Yeah, yep. It's just music--my grandmother used to sing in the church too. Yep, Tenth Street Baptist Church NW [Washington, D.C.]. Yep so I used to watch my grandmother sing. When I was young, at the Children's Museum here in D.C., there was some--it was like a play going on, when I was young, my grandmother used to always take me, and I just ran on stage when I was a little kid and did my own thing. They let me like just do my own thing though, it was a part of the show. So you know like I guess it was meant to be. Yeah—

DB: That's what's up—

XO: It was like a momentum that was just built up, you know?

4 DB: Have you always lived in D.C.?

XO: Yes, always lived... I lived in Maryland for like 5 years. I went to high school in Maryland as well. I went to Roosevelt High School, Laurel High School, yep here in Maryland.

DB: Where were you born?

XO: Uptown D.C., Georgia Avenue, Howard University Hospital. They was [??, his family?] on Georgia and Kenyon [streets] above the Madness shop. And Madness that was like one of biggest clothing lines, street brand of clothing lines in the city, you know? It was like every neighborhood had their clothing line. SE [Southeast D.C.] always had like Hobos, Shooters. NE [Northeast D.C.] had like AllDaz, Scrapers…. Ummmm Madness, I mean...Uptown we had like Madness, Solo, We R One, you know, so it was just like that's the area that I came in--Madness. Georgia and Kenyon. I lived above the Madness shop so it was crazy around those times. It was wild. Riggs Park NE, lived there too. Piney Branch Road and Georgia Avenue, lived there as well. I lived--I been all around the city. You know?

DB: Yeah. So you been talking a little bit about the atmosphere--

XO: mmhmm.

DB: that you grew up in—

XO: yeah.

DB: what was your childhood like? How you remember?

XO: My childhood--it was crazy because my parents was young when they had me so they weren't married or anything like that. There weren't--I never came up with both my mother and father in the household. They was separated when I was--as far back as I can remember they have been separated or beefin' going through they little quarrels and things like that so that's just how it was [laughs]. But you know it was hard because mom was in college like most of my childhood. She was in college and having a kid, trying to pay bills and go to school, trying to study, and it was a lot of weight on her shoulders, so she was frustrated a lot. It was hard. We've been evicted many times. Come home from school, all our stuff out on the street and stuff like that. So I was going to school with a different type of mind set, or frustration, you know what I mean, I couldn't focus like that [laughs] because it was other stuff going on. So, it was challenging but we made it through. You know, I mean we did what we did, and I really wouldn't have any other way because I love that struggle.

DB: And when you say different mindset, say you work with a different mindset--

5 What do you mean?

XO: Yeah, because it was like going to school in this area. You know, we're at American University, my mother went to the University of the District of Columbia, down the street really. So I went to elementary school in this area because my mother was going to school in this area. She wanted me to be close. But we didn't live over[?] there we lived on the other side [of the city] in a rough neighborhood. So a lot of people that I was going to school with couldn't understand that, or relate to that. Some kids did because there was a lot of kids like me, in the same boat. The parents just wanted the kids to go to a better school because kids [were] getting robbed for they Jordan's and stuff like that. It's a very harsh physical environment. It's like watching--you know when you watch Animal Planet or National Geographic and you see them lions, how they just be fighting, and from a young age that's what we was doing. It was just rough. A lot of people couldn't relate to that, where I was at, the school that I was going to, and I just dealt with that. You know it wasn't too many--it was Black folks, but it wasn't too many Black folks, you know what I'm saying? Then I was going to the hood every day after school. It was still cool though, I'm glad I came up in that diverse environment though, it made me cultured a little bit. I can see things from a lot of perspectives that most people couldn't see because I've just been around different people and different cultures. So I'm glad I went through that too, but it was challenging.

DB: What elementary school did you go to and what neighborhood where you living in at the time?

XO: I went to Murch Elementary School, which is like right down the street, it's right down the street [from American University]. It's actually, it's on Nebraska Avenue and I was living on Georgia Avenue and Kenyon above the Madness shop at that time. And that's, that was one of the worst areas, and right in between Hobart and Six-forty [640], two infamous neighborhoods uptown so that's where I was living at. And I remember going to parties, with certain people in my class and they live right up the street from... they live in this neighborhood. Like, we was going to they houses, and they got marble floors and their pools was like surfaced with marble and everything, like they living the life. And it was just...I'm glad I got to see that though, I'm still glad I got to see that [laughs]. I lot of kids ain’t get to see that where I'm from, you know? So, just to see, you know, just that because you know a lot of people be in a box when it's like you don't see outside of where you at. You know what I'm saying? If I would have went to the school in my neighborhood, it kind of, I guess would have made me a little bit more narrow-minded about people or how to deal with people. Narrow-minded in dealing with people, you know, going to school with a lot of Latinos and White people and Indian people who like--around here

6 there is a lot of people that's going to school. You'll catch some people that.... you know my Spanish homie, his parents, they clean people's houses, you know what I'm saying, that's what they do. My mother, she's--[trails off inaudibly], you know, but the other kids, some people's fathers in this neighborhood they was like Senators, Congressmen, you know what I'm saying? So that was--it was crazy to be just affiliated with that and even looking back at it now, growing up here I know so many people, I grew up with so many people from the D.C. side, to the Maryland side it's not really that big of a gap between it. So yeah.

DB: So you felt like the elementary school culture was an affluent one?

XO: Yeah. Yeah, yeah--there was still certain kids that was like racist though. They learned that from their parents. It was still certain kids that had that. I experienced that. If I was going to school in the 'hood, I dont think I would have experienced that, but you know. When I went to Deal--Alice Deal Junior High School, which is right up the street [from the interview location] I would have went to Wilson [High School]. I wish I could have went to Wilson just finish everything out. But we moved to Maryland because I was turning into a knucklehead in life at that point in time. My mother wanted something better for me. When I went there, it was even more of a diverse culture. You know, Black-Spanish people, Dominicans and stuff like that. I love that. I was down in Virginia the other day and some people was getting into it. This Black girl got into with this Dominican chick who--you know they look mixed, but she told--the Black girl told her, "go back and get on a boat" or something like that. And I'm looking at her like, it's so much you don't know, and I can tell she aint really been around to even know what's what. Growing up in D.C. period, I was around a lot of culture here. I love that. Even though there was some people, like I said that was--certain kids was racist going to school in this area. They would tell me "my grandma's real racist, she hates Black people." Certain kids would say that.

DB: So you felt like you experienced racism while you were in school?

XO: Yeah. yeah, most definitely. It was a teacher, she was Russian. I knew she hated-- she had to hate Black people that way she treated us. I forgot her name and everything but from certain teachers to certain kids, but its just learned behavior.

DB: Was it like a general experience or was it like particular instances--

XO: No.

DB: that made you feel--

XO: Just particular instances. That's it.

7 DB: So you, you contrast where you grew up--your neighborhood, with school so let's talk a little bit more about your neighborhood. What was your neighborhood like?

XO: My neighborhood was crazy. It was crazy. My moms, she was going through it so I was moving from grandmother's house in Riggs Park NE back and forth, to my mom's to my grandmother's to my mom's. It was kind of getting unstable, and she couldn't afford--then she had my little brother around that time as well. It really got tight. My moms was moving around a lot, we was getting evicted. She was living with a friend and stuff like that. It's crazy looking back at it. She on her feet now but that was just college life and her having two kids trying to go to school. It's crazy we was living house to house it was real unstable. I lived in a lot of different neighborhoods but my neighborhood was crazy. Dudes, if you wasn't from around the neighborhood would go in your pockets. If we didn't recognize you, you couldn't come around our neighborhood. You couldn't just bring your homie to the neighborhood and say "Yo, this my friend, we gonna spend the night" remember that? I wasn't like that in certain neighborhoods. You couldn't just bring your homie around he may get beat up or something or robbed really. Even back then as kids, we was doing crazy stuff. We were, on a daily basis, we would just do bad stuff. "Where we gon steal from today?" We'd just go on missions. We called them missions. And we'd just go on a mission. We'd go to the mall and rob the mall, rob the candy store. We used to rob the candy store in the morning before school--go to school and sell candies. Stuff like that. All type of crazy stuff. I'm still affliated with the guys I grew up with, went to school with, went to Deal with. We all hang out, we be everywhere.

DB: So you said ya'll were kids and they would be missions. Why do you think out of all the different things that ya'll could have done as kids that those were some of the things you did?

XO: Our parents being busy and at work and stuff like that. My father wasn't around like that. Hw was tour with Gil Scott Heron and stuff like that. So my mother was a single parent and a lot of my friends were in that boat in my neighborhood. Going to school up here, a lot of kids had mom and dad. When mom couldn't be there, dad was there or their grandmother or something like that. Thank God for my grandmother just being a foundation. Someone I can always, just go back to when moms wasn't stable. Because I remember 5th grade we got evicted. Then, going to school the next day it's like "ya'll going home, I don't know where I'm going when I--[at] 3 o'clock when the bell rings" It's like well what's going to happen? So it's going to school with a different type of frustration. It was crazy back then.

8 DB: And this was--what age range?

XO: This was like--7, 8, 9, 10--11, 12. That age range right there. We was just going through it.

DB: Young.

XO: Yeah, very young. From 7 to 12. Really 13 to 13, I went to Alice Deal. That as like my last run after Murch, they are right up the street. So after I went to Deal I was becoming a knucklehead because at Deal--that's the school where its like everybody want their kid to go to--the good school. But the good schools end up being the bad school because all the kids from across town. They [parents?] want they kids there, so it ending up being--even though it was mild compared to the schools in the bad neighborhoods like MacFarland [Middle School] or Backus [Middle School]. Alice Deal was still rough. I was getting popular and not doing good in school. I was rolling--shooting dice and when I was in school, since I was going to school with a different type of energy--and I'm creative so I got a different energy in me anyway, I guess they didn't know how to deal with me. They said I had A.D.D, they tried to put me in the--I was in the "slow class." I was in elementary, 5th grade they pulled me and I was in a class with my Dominican homie, her name was like Jessica or something like that, and my other homie, his father was like a super across the street in the apartments, in one of the condos, and my man Corey and it was us three in that class. We was doing the same thing every day. Our teacher was Jewish, we'd be in there playing with dreidels, eating Jewish crackers, and doing math problems. She was like "man just do this, after ya'll do that we'd just talk or whatever." It was like, they just wanted to keep us separate or someting like that. I don't know. But, I wasn't about to be put on no drugs or no Ritalin or nothing like that, and that's what they were suggesting at the school. I guess they just didn't know how to deal with us.

DB: When you say "they" who are you--who comes to mind?

XO: The administrators. They had a meeting. They called my parents and had a meeting with them. "We think your son has A.D.D. and we suggest him getting on Ritalin." [laughs]. They did that. Then they pulled me out of class. I guess I was just too disruptive or something like that, or I don't know. My other teacher, she was young, young Jewish woman as well. I guess they didn't know how to deal with me and the options that they were aware of was "oh maybe he has this" that's where their intelligence was limited to, that right there. They couldn't see outside of that as far as what other skills can be applied to help this kid. Instead of just take this medicine [and] shut up. You know what I mean?

9 DB: So how did your family respond to that? You said that they brought you and your family in for this meeting. How did your family respond?

XO: They didn't want to do it at first. But um, I definitely didn't take that medicine but being in that class--they just had me in it. It was like we was manipulated into it, talked into it--like [they said] "yeah, we're just gonna do this." Then when you get there it's something different. And its like "[you] stay here, you're separate from everybody else, you're different." And we had an IEP [individualized education plan]. So the IEPs would travel with you everywhere you go, every school you go to. Even when I moved to Maryland, after Alice Deal and went to high school--Laurel High School, my IEP was there. Teachers would be judging me based off what my previous record was. It was crazy but I dont' regret anything I'm glad I went through everything.

DB: When you think back to your junior year--or, not your junior year--your middle school years. What do you remember most?

XO: Being into music--Wu Tang [Clan], really getting into Hip Hop. When I was in elementary I was into Michael Jackson a lot. I was the guy moonwalking and having the circle crowded around me, breakdancing and all that. I was that. Before it was even rap. I was into L.L. [Cool J], certain rappers back then. But, Michael Jackson that because I was born in '85. Michael Jackson was it for me. Up until, starting at age 7, 8, 9, 10. [At] 10 I started getting more into rap, 11, 12. Sixth grade it was like okay, I like Biggie [Notorious B.I.G.] and Pac [2Pac]. [In] Junior high school, Wu Tang, Bone Thugs N Harmony, Fugees. That's when I really started--this is like '97 around this time. It's when I really started getting into Hip Hop, it was really good at that time. A Tribe Called Quest, Q Tip, yep, Jay Z.

DB: So then there's the transition from middle school to high school is that memorable for you? Or did it feel like a continuation of the same?

XO: It was definitely different because--I moved to Maryland. So then I'm in a new environment. My cousin--my mother and her best friend, I call her my cousin but it's really one of her best friends and her son, she was like my aunt and he was like my cousin because I've known them all my life. They lived on Blair and Fern [streets] in NW and we lived on Piney Branch Road. We lived in that house until like age 7. And then after that we moved down Georgia and Kenyon. But that was like my best friend. We just went everywhere with each other, same schools, we played on the same football team, basketball team, baseball team. When we moved to Maryland it was motivated by them moving to Maryland first. They [were] into sports back then sports was kind of like a way out as well. I ran track for Alice Deal as well but I was always in sports. I was playing football for the little leagues. Sports was our way out,

10 one of our ways out the 'hood and then maybe music. Back then that's what we were on, "oh I got to be basketball player, or something." Even back then, that's crazy how I felt as if I had to be a basketball player to make it. I wasn't thinking about nothing else. It was nothing like--that's crazy to me [that I thought] "I got to be a basketball player or football player, either or, if I'm not good at that I don't know what I'm going to do." And then that fizzled out, the sports thing with me going out there and getting popular. Again, just being who I am getting popular and meeting people. Just having that energy that's just cool. And fights and stuff like that, people get to know you from fighting. We used to just beat up people. You walked by we'd just beat you up. That's how we rolled back in the day [laughs]. Moving to Maryland, we moved to Laurel, Maryland a year after my cousin/best friend, a year after he moved out there. We was in Laurel off Contee Road. We was running with the knuckleheads around there on Contee Road. I remember, I was young. We was out there and we had guns and everything, real young. Really, really, really, young we had access to guns, everything out there. I was just going downhill as far as academics. I wasn't even going to class back then. We was smoking in the hallways. I was skipping every class, going to gym every period, playing basketball. They fired one of the gym teachers because of that because we were just abusing it. In Deal, actually, I was doing that in Deal, going to the nurse's office. I'd be like "Can I go to the nurse? I'm feeling sick." But that's just how it was. I got actually kicked out of Laurel because I wasn't doing good. I was fighting and I was getting suspended too much. The second year I went there my counselor, who is now the principal, Coach Jones. He said "If you get into three fights this year, if you get suspended three times this year you're expelled. You can't come back." Man, I had--six months into that I had already violated that just little [stuff? bits?]. I be like dag man, dag! So he didn't officially expel me, like take me to the school board and all that, but it was just like [he said] "You just can't come back--start looking for a new school to enroll in next year" basically. We had already basically hit a ceiling at Laurel at that time anyway as far as how we was living. We was all living in the same house eventuallly. Me, my little brother, my mother, her best friend, her son, and then we was living in a house. We was all a struggling. They was still in school. Then my mother around that time was in law school so she was going through it. She was still going to law school at UDC she was making that commute from Laurel to DC, everyday, [it was] crazy. So we moved from there to Springhill Lake in Maryland in Greenbelt. We both did, my aunt, my best friend, my mother, we all moved out there in separate--we didn't live together at that time. That had moved out there first and we moved out there. It was that type of thing. She did it and my mother wanted to do it. It was type of relationship with them. So out there in Springhill Lake, that was a really rough neighborhood. I got really popular around there, I got really popular in that area. That's when I started getting my feet wet with rap stuff like that. Really in Laurel, a

11 little bit. I wasn't good in Laurel though as a rapper [laughs]. I remember being in detention. I know we're jumping around too cause like--

DB: No, you're fine.

XO: I don't think about this stuff I did, so it's coming back. I remember, it used to be these dudes battling: Corey, this dude named Corey, he called himself Complete, my homie Richard Foster, Connecticut. Dag, who else? My man Cody, he was always beatboxing, then we battling. I had detention. I always used to see him battling, when I had detention. They would be the last ones in the cafeteria. They were finishing out thier battles. Everybody else was going to class, they ended up being the last ones. Them, and the people who was on detention, we got trash duty. We [were] cleaning cleaning up everbody's trash basically. I remember I just jumped in the battle. I jumped in the cypher, rather, back then. From then on, I was rapping. I wasn't good, but I wanted to do it. I was like "Yo, I'm a do it." I couldn't freestyle or nothing like that but then the dudes ended up taking me in. They was like some New York-type dudes. They ended up taking me in and showing me really what the Hip Hop is. That made me a connoisseur of it because then I went over my homie Cody's house and he had every copy of Source Magazine from the first issue published to up-to-date back then in high school. We had bootleg tapes from New York. We had Paid in Full three years before it came out, with Cam'Ron and all that. We had it three years before it came out. Just being into that underground type of culture they introduced me to that, getting mixtapes and hearing music that you have to search for, that's exclusive. You set yourself apart from everybody else because it's like you have this exclusive type of--it made me a connoisseur. And then it went from looking at that to a clothes perspective like, "I got this, I got this, I got that." Then, that's when the streets came in [to play] really because it was like "dag, I want that. Let me do this to get that."

DB: Say more about that. How did your circumstances affect your ability to pursuit your art?

XO: The circumstances affect my ability to pursuit my art?

DB: If you feel like it did.

XO: I don't think that they did because I was always writing and stuff like that. My mother used to be like, "What are you doing?" [I'd respond] "I'm just writing." Or, I'd go over my homie's house and record. I'd walk. I'd walk miles if I missed the bus or something like that. I'd walk. And Laurel, Contee Road, and Laurel High School, that's across town really. My homies they lived across the street from the school that was in a better neighborhood too. Nice condos. They had the studio equipment in

12 they apartment. I was like 14, 15 around this time and we would record, that's my first recording--on a DAT. We'd record on a DAT so it's not even no laptop-Pro Tools setup, it was a DAT player. We had to nail everything all the way through, it was no punching, no nothing. That's the first experience recording, and I'd walk home no matter how late it was. I'd just be like "Yo, mom me and my homie we doing this music on tapes." I'd bring home tapes, whole tapes and me rhyming [on them] and I'm listening to my tapes. Then I'm dubbing my tapes and selling them in school like, "This my tape right here." You know, like old school [laughter]. That's crazy. Moving to Greenbelt, I started linking up with homie's that was rapping. My homie from Maple Avenue was out there. We called him "Cheeks" because he had a tumor in his cheek, one cheek was just big so we called him Cheeks. Chris, "Fat Chris," he had the studio equipment in his crib. He had the computer setup and he could burn CDs and stuff. I'd be over his crib--that's how it would be in my first--so my circumstances didn't enable [meaning prevent or hinder] me. I made it happen regardless of what was going aganist me. I made it happen. Then I-while I was out in Greenbelt as well I said [to myself] "Let me get a karaoke machine so I can record myself." Then I was recording myself and I was going back to Laurel to my homie's house to get instrumentals, beats, and stuff like that and I was recording myself. Then, that's when I really mastered the craft of writing. I mastered it, rhyming good. It took books. I filled books up with lyrics and stuff like that.

DB: And this was high school year when this was happening?

XO: Yeah, this was high school, around 11th grade. So I was like 16. When I was in that school as well, I took notice to another popular group of kids that was rapping. There was a group called Hoodlum. It was Care--it was all city kids too. We related to each other because we was all from--we was transplants from D.C. in Maryland. We was relating to each other in that fashion. I battled them at first. I battled all of them and then I ended up being with them because--my homie who I was recording with, Trey, Trey V, he was deejaying. He lived across the street from the school, Roosevelt [Eleanor Roosevelt High School]. That was his clique, so when I started getting with him and recording with him, they caught wind of my work. They [were] coming around and seeing me rap and another homie of mine, Born, my man Jonathan Navez [name spelling?] we was out there. We was just all rapping. Jonathan Navez gave me the inspiration actually to call myself XO. Because back then I was real rugged, I was still on that 90s Onyx-type of vibe, Timberlands [boots], bald hair cut, know what I'm saying? That's how I was--I was wearing nothing but Tims and bald. He used to call me a little DMX, so I took on to that. I was like little X. So now, I just made the acronym XO, Unknown Origin, because based off just looking at a person--like the way I dress you wouldn't expect something--you wouldn't expect certain things being said coming from my background, my

13 perspective and that's just because I've been around a lot. I know a lot, study--been around my mom in college while they having debates and conversations about politics and stuff like that. [I was] A little kid listening in grown folks conversations, around grown people when I was young. I used to walk to my mother's college after class in 3rd grade. I went to Hurst Elementary as well before Murch and that is like-- they all down the street from each other but that only goes up to the 3rd grade. It's across the street from Sidwell Friends. Chelsea Clinton was going there at the time that I was going there [to Hurst] too--that's Bill Clinton's daughter. And yeah, I was walking--I used to walk to my mother's college. I remember I just got tired of her being late picking me up--I'd get worried something happened to her so I just [decided] "I'm a go to her." But jumping back forward, when I got with these dudes and I battled them and I ended up getting with them. We started going around--I'm young, 16, since we was all from the city we was going to the city together chillin'-- going back into the city. We was down U street [NW] and this was when U street was--Bar Nun, there was a club called Bar Nun, State of the Union, the Kaffa House. It was a lot of musical things going on down there. Raheem Devaughn, W. Ellington Felton, they came up on that street. Musically, there was a lot of things going on-- Bohemian Caverns, it was a lot of history being made. Poets, musicians, and things, it was like a hub for that. We was there on our rap tip young. Sixteen and it was this record store named Capital City Records that we used to go to because it was all ages. That's where I really became a connoisseur because in there was all straight Hip Hop heads. They would force you to battle people. They would have challenging cyphers where you had to rhyme about everything that's around you—you had to do that type of stuff. So that's the type of school that I came up in. Almost like a--that was my dojo rather.

DB: And what was the time frame that this was happening?

XO: This was like 11th grade, 12th grade. Yeah 11th grade because 16, 17--I was 16 in [the] 11th, 17 in the 12th. So it was like 16, 17 then when I was 18, I was old enough to go into clubs now. So now I'm doing more shows on U street, I'm going to the open mic every Friday. Then I'm going to Between Friends. It's now U Street Music Hall it was another club called Between Friends. Then going to more clubs all over the city because I'm 18 now. I stayed back in high school too so I was in Roosevelt for 3 years. I had a 5 year high school career. I only had 2 classes that [senior] year, but I was still in school--graduated 2004. When I did that after high school, I had the momentum going with the music. I had a nice little rapport with people. I hadn't put out music but I was perfoming live and I was going down to the open mic every Friday. So whoever came in the the open mic, whether it was packed, small, they seen me perform, they seen me rip it, they seen me kill it. Around 2005, I moved back to the city with my grandmother. My mother--I was always in the

14 streets, so I was--my mother found some paraphernalia in the house and she wasn't feeling that at the time. She was like, "You gotta go." So I was like "Alright." I came back to the city and was living in Riggs Park, got a job and starting going to PG college [Prince Georges Community College] and stuff like that. I was performing at PG college and I was hitting the scene heavy and 21 came. And then it's like, I'm really hitting the scene. I'm really going to more clubs and now I'm in Bar Nun now getting my rapport in there. My homie Mercedes, Sharps put me on to the Bar Nun was like, "You should come here [to Bar Nun]." After a while they raised the rent on the building that they lady owned at the open mic. It was a record store--they used to have an open mic in the record store. They don't sell liquor there, there's no cover charge, you just come. It was free. And that was dying, it was slowly dying, and I needed another outlet to get that out. So, I segued into Bar Nun and was doing the Bar Nun every Monday. I met a lot of people. I met Oddisee, yU that I'm in a group with now, in Diamond District. I met them through just hitting that pavement down U street every Friday, every Monday open mics. I rhymed with the best of them. People that, certain people consider legends, nobody--they not nationally known or world wide, but it's like, "Yo, dude is a legend. He's one of the greatest." I'm there affliated with them dudes.

DB: So let's talk about that. So we have come up to the point where you're getting some recognition. So, I know that you have albums lots of them. Let's talk a little bit about that. How did you become a formal artist, a recording artist?

XO: Oddisee really took me in and I really started recording--my first project with him. I was on his CD under a label called--I forget the name of the label. But I was [his feature on this album] in FYE [record store], I was in stores and stuff like that. And I remember, I was working at the FYE in PG [Prince Georges] mall and I was in there. My CD was in there and I was--you know what I mean? Then I ended up working at Down Town Locker Room with Wale and some other rappers that's credible out here. We was all working together. We was rapping banging on--getting people's shoes, right around the time he had his first--the "Dig Dug" record, single. He had the "Dig Dug" single and actually helping him pass out his stuff helped me meet people because I had rhymes for days, I just didn't have a CD out. Wale, he had a CD out, so I was helping him push his CD and met dude called Charles Keys in Down Town Locker Room because that was a hub for where people would come to get--a lot of popular dudes go there and shop, get sneakers right quick, get ready for the club, promoters and stuff, bootleg dudes, bootlegging was crazy back then. So, passing out one of Wale's CDs, because he [Wale] was on a schedule [at Down Town Locker Room] like one day a week at that point and he was like with Kenny Burns, I met Charles Keys. [He asked me] "What you do?" [He was asking] What I do? [I answered] "I be spitting too." I spit a rhyme for him and he was like "I'm trying to

15 take you [into the industry too]." When I was working with Oddisee, I had brought, what I did with Oddisee, I brought that to him. He put me with a team of people to help me put out my first project and start putting viral videos out. I started getting into that mind set. This is around 2006, 2005 - 2006. Now you see where Wale at, he skyrocketed. That's my brother. I met somebody who helped me, when I was helping him [Wale], Charles Keys. I was with them--I did my first project, Takeover and then Wale introduced me to Judah. I did my EP. That was like one of my first official projects, my EP with Judah. He did all the beats for it, recorded it for free because I was recording with Judah, who was working with Wale at that time. I was recording with him, paying for studio time and everything. He was like, "You good, I want to do a project with you. You hot." So we did that and I was generating a good buzz. A very good buzz and then I did a project Takeover 2. I had a song with Wale on there. That did really, really well that's a critically acclaimed project. A lot of people liked that. After that, it was Us vs. Them EP. Then I did Realmatic which has Fat Trel on Realmatic when he was young--when he was like 17. He's blowing up crazy. Slutty Boyz, shout out to them. After that, I caught wind of Kenny Burns-- Wale, that's who he started out with. So I caught wind of Kenny Burns and then we started making music with AB The Producer who produced my last--every, almost every song on the last five projects that I did. AB The Producer did that. And that was really from that merge, that one song that we did called "Go Hard." This was like 2009, I'm jumping up to now. Well, 2008 really. 2008, 2006, 2007, I put out like-- that Timeless joint, in 2008 is was Us vs. Them, Realmatic. Me and Diamond District, we formed a group and did a project--put it out for free. Then we took it off online and re-released the album. We ended up touring the world with that particular project. We didn't even shoot a video for it. This was all around the same time. J- Scrilla, I did a project with him, with two songs on his project. One song, "Guns N Butter" we did a crazy video for that. It was almost like a movie. He had a crazy budget for it--a lot of good looks in 2009--and it was so much music that I was coming out with. Then 2010 momentum is just building, then we ended up going on tour around the world. All over the U.S., all over Europe.

DB: This is with Diamond District?

XO: Yeah. And then, I'm coming back with Kenny Burns. I'm in the BET Awards and all type of different parties and things like that so I seen a lot. Miami, and Kenny Burns that's like--he was Vice President of Roc-A-Fella Records so going into that-- that was about 2010. I had the song with Raheem Devaughn, we was going. 2011-12, I just wanted to do my own thing. I just wanted to put a lot of different things into perspective and say [to myself] "Hold up, I need to be boss." I started my own company: Secret Society Films, Secret Society Music. I got my own business, official business. I'm shooting videos now. I'm getting into art, design--because when I was

16 young I was into art too. I was drawing a lot before I was actually writing songs. So, I was still in music, singing, playing instruments but I was drawing as well. [In] elementary school that's what I was known for, drawing and dancing and all that, breakin', b-boying back then. I want to bring some of that back out now, as far as the art is concerned, my tastes as far as fashion and stuff like that. I want to bring that out now, that's just where I'm at now with it--2013. But in between that time a lot of--2012 I put out a project Monumental 2 . It was one of the best projects of the year in Spin Magazine, and one of the top 50 projects of the year. A lot my projects have been like the top projects of the year, [like] Diamond District. Now it's just about searching for a better platform to be seen and making better music.

DB: So based on what I've been able to research, you have an album span that goes from 2007 to 2012. Does that--

XO: 13.

DB: 13. So 2007 to 2013. So what I noticed as the trend in your music is that you rep. [represent] D.C. hard. Why do you do that?

XO: Because, man, we don't have nobody from--in Rap it's like always been left out. We've always been left out. I rep D.C. so hard because if they hear all this music, they're going to hear D.C. in--if they hear all this music, they're going to like at least one song out of a thousand. That one song, I may be screaming D.C. in that song, just because, or making reference to my city, or something like that.

DB: What's your music about if you had to describe it?

XO: My music is about--now, my music is about just evolving and pushing the limits, moving forward, going forward. That's what my music is about. My music is about inspiring evolution, inspiring growth basically. Spiritual growth, money growth, or feeling-good growth, refill. A refill basically. Especially, with my last album, Colour de Grey.

DB: I keep coming back to this same theme of your music's relationship to D.C. because it's such a strong one. So I want you to talk to me a little bit more about that because you can't listen to any album without really hearing somebody talk about this city. Why is that?

XO: We don't have anybody that is out there that's from D.C. to talk about it in the way that I can. That's why--since I know that I just talk about it. And because nobody out there that can--to really say these things from my perspective--out of all of the popular artists that are out there, I feel a need to preserve D.C. culture. And, preserve it through just talking about the moments in time in music, in this

17 documented archive, in a sense, in my catalog.

DB: And how do you do that?

XO: I just--the things that's going on I just talk about it. If you look back on my albums it's like a current events. Like, this is what was going on this year. I talk about certain politics and what happened within the city and what happened within the world. And I like keeping it like that. This is what I am, D.C.

DB: So kind of keeping with the theme. You're in the group Diamond District right?

XO: Yeah.

DB: Why is it called Diamond District?

XO: D.C. and being that diamond in the rough. It's like we're a diamond in the rough. So much talent here, we have some of the greatest artists in the world and we're the smallest city. And we have our own genre of music. This is a small city right here and we have our own music. Think about Merengue. Or think about the Nigerian--Fela Kuti's stuff, or Salsa, or think about Hip Hop. We have our own genre of music: Go- Go. That came from this city right here. So it's like, our city is not the same in alot of the culture is being diminished because of gentrification. I just feel the need to preserve it and talk about it. I want people to appreciate it so other people can at least try to preserve it or try to have a mind state that--they will be in position to be able to preserve what they care about even down to--it may be grandmother's house that you grew up in and then they want to build new condos over that. They want you to sell that house but you want to keep it in the family so you can raise your kids there. That type of thing.

DB: So it's kind of hard to talk about D.C. culture without talking about Go-Go. So how did Go-Go impact you?

XO: My grandfather actually managed a band, called the Young Senators, My father's father managed a band called the Young Senators. They helped create the Go-Go sound from Afro-Cubano, Cuban--that Afro-Cuban type of beat. They had a single out--I forgot what it was called but the Young Senators they really evolved that sound then Chuck Brown came in and added what he added on to that. Then it just evolved. When you had a band in this city that formed-- that band, the sound of that band was based on a tone that was set from the Young Senators--my grandfather managed that band, Harry Youngs.

DB: How did Go-Go music affect the Hip Hop that you do? Or does it?

XO: It does and I guess even on one of first songs that I did with Oddisee and I was

18 helping him because I'm starting to get into production now but when I had motivations or when I had certain ideas, concepts for songs and I noticed how certain--it's like the open mic was at a record store so when you're in production, or you make beats you're digging through old records and trying to chop a sample from an old record, so I was telling Oddisee take--you know how DJ Premier used to have a sample of somebody's voice and throw it in the record or something like that or he used to take Guru's voice and flip it around--I told him [Oddisee] to take Big G's voice from Backyard Band and flip it around over a Hip Hop beat and that it affected--that's still one of my greatest songs to this day. It's called "Ridin'."

DB: So we coming to the end but I have a million questions that I could ask. Do you feel like D.C. culture over the course of your life has been kind of the same or do you feel like it's kind of changed a lot?

XO: It's changed a lot. And it is kind of the same. It's like it's changing but it's the same. What's the same is like-- [coughs]. What's the same is we still--[coughs]. We still a city you can go now and the city, as far as like crime, but it's being gentrified so it's different. So that's what the change is [coughs]. I wish I had some water.

DB: Dang, I don't have any in here either.

XO: [Coughs].

DB: You want to pause for a second?

XO: We good, just edit that out.

DB: [Laughs].

XO: Edit that out.

DB: That's the hard thing about the oral histories they usually go from start to finish but we can work something out.

XO: Sorry about that ya'll [to listeners].

DB: No you're good, you're good.

DB: Okay so let's do this. Let's kind of bring it to a close. I've asked you a lot of things about your childhood, about your art, are there things that I've missed. Are there pieces of your life that are--that we didn't get to? Let's talk about them.

XO: Yeah. We didn't get to--I guess certain things that I applied to, I guess gaining popularity. I was throwing parties with MadPowerUnit while I was working at Down Town Locker Room. We was throwing parties, that's how I got to know alot of the

19 DJs, club promoters. Then I ended up having the opportunity to continue on [at] Bar Nun, which was renamed into Pure Lounge. Then I had my own open mic to give other artists in the city a platform to be seen and we have Feladay [? name unclear] came out of an open mic, Fat Trel came out of an open mic, Black Cobain. A lot of artists came up out of that open mic that was like--we used to have that joint jumping. It was live, to the point where, God rest his soul, a guy got killed at--around the corner from our open mic. It was crazy, it was fights. Then it was like, it stop being 18 and up. Then it was 21 and up. It was still--I was sneaking Fat Trel in when it was 21 and up and still doing that. That's how I gave back to the city, I wasn't performing at these open mics. I was just putting some of the--just like I say we was in a dojo, it as like I was just continuing on with that for a new generation. Out of that I brought people in and then I had people host for me. Then they started their open mic when I started to [fall?] back from it because I was just too busy at a certain point in time. They started their open mics in different areas and then I see the evolution of artists that's coming out of that so it's like--I love that. So that was around 2009, 2010. We had open mics jumping.

DB: Good stuff. That's what's up. So are there other things because if not I have one last question.

XO: My album is out Colour de Grey. That album is dedicated I guess to this city. Like I said we have legends here that nobody knows about. I got a legend, 2 legends on there that open the album and that ended the album. It's on iTunes right now Colour de Grey.

DB: Do you want to speak to who those legends are?

XO: Messiah and Face. Messiah and Face two poets, geniuses.

DB: That's what's up. So my last question is about the icons of your work, meaning you have a picture, which I think is of you on--that is kind of a cartoon picture--

XO: Yeah.

DB: And then you have the D.C. flag often on your art, or you have--you refer to it-- Ah!

XO: [Lifts arm and points to his tattoo of D.C. flag]

DB: Or the tattoo. See that's exactly what I'm talking about. So you have the D.C. flag, you have albums that are called monumental so you have all these references to D.C. so in your mind, how does your art connect with D.C.?

XO: Man, my art--how does my art connect with D.C.? My art is rooted in D.C. It's like

20 I was here to see everything. I'm here seeing this thing blossom. I'm seeing this thing blossom, it's blossoming. As we speak it's still in blossom. And it's like it'll never be in full bloom, but we got a lot of great talent coming out of this city but my music is like --it inspired a lot of people here, and now they doing what they do. I got a lot of people that come up to me and tell me that.

DB: So you see the art of D.C. blossoming--

XO: Yeah.

DB: Do you see the people of D.C. bloosoming too?

XO: Yes. Yeah, this wasn't even a Rap town at one point in time. It was a Go-Go town, Rap was like associated with New York and we didn't like New York back in the day because of like how [pole??] and a lot things was happening in the streets and stuff like that with New Yorkers they was trying to come down here and make money in people's neighborhoods and stuff like that so anything associated with that it was just a trend not to like. So if you was down U street, you was sort of--kind of an outcast almost. Even when I was in Deal--when I was with certain Hip Hop heads and I was in Deal we was like outcasts a little bit-- we wasn't outcasts because we were with everybody, but we were outcasts because we were on-- everybody wasn't on everything we was on, we was on what they was on but everybody wasn't on what we was on. It was like straight up Go-Go or more Southern rappers, but I was on, like I said Wu Tang--when that Wu Tan Forever album came out, I was in 7th grade that was my vibe, still Backyard, still Northeast Groovers and all that but [I] was on Hip Hop. I was different back then. [imitates a question] "Oh you from New York?" It was that type of thing.

DB: Well that's what's up. I want to thank you so much--

XO: Thank you.

DB: --for doing this interview. You have incredible art, incredible catalog of art. Just the volume of it is very impressive. So I want to say thanks for taking time--

XO: No doubt.

DB: --time out to doing this--

XO: Thank you for having me.

DB: The archive is going to be so much the better because of it so with that unless there is anything else you'd like to add we'll just wrap it there.

21 XO: We can wrap it up. Peace and love to everybody and if ya'll listening to this any upcoming artists just keep doing ya'll thing and work hard at it. Don't let nobody tell you, you can't do it. What I will say is that there was doubters--I had doubters. People that came at me with that energy on my way up, I guess you could say and ain't listen to them and I rose above and I'm still rising. It's about seeing that vision 10 years down the line and knowing where you want to go and then go there, dealing with the people who can add to your momentum and not subtract from, not slow you down. Yep.

DB: There it is. Thank you so much.

XO: Thank you.

[End 1:08:18.1]