Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
THURSDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 1939
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
410 Paper. [ASSEMBLY.] Redistribution of State Electomtes, &c.
THURSDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER, 1939. REGULA'J.'IO:'\S UNDER FRUIT l\Li.RKETING ORGANISATION ACTS.
LAPSE OF NO'l'ICE OF l\foTIOX. Mr. SPl~AKER (Hon. E. J. Hanson, 1\Ir. NICI{L!N (Murrumba) (10.35 a.m.): Buranua) took the chair at 10.30 a.m. I do not in tend to move the notice of motion in general business standing in my name . AUDI'rOR-G ENERAL 'S REPORT. .fiir. SPEAKER: The motion lapses.
LoANs S1~K1KG Fu~ns. Mr. SPEAKER announc-ed the receipt from REDISTRIBUTION OF STATE ELEC the Auditor-General of his report on the TORATES; COMPULSORY PREFEHEN opemtions of the various loans sinking funds TTAL VO'riNG. of the State for the financial year 1938-39. .Mr. l\IAHI~R (West Moreton) (10.36 Ordered to be printed. a.m.) : I move- '' That, in the opinion of this House, it is DISALLOW AKCE 01'' QUESTION. desiralJle that immediate action should be taken by the Government to bring about a }.IR. SPEAKER's HOLING. more equitable distribution of the State lUr. SPEAKER: In reference to the eleetonnes, haYing regard to community of <[L'Cstion on the business sheet in the name interests, and the introduction of compul of the hon. member for East Too>Yoornba, I sory preferential voting in State and local understand from the :\linister that this case authority elections.'' is now before the courts, and consequently sub judice. Therefore, I cannot allow it to 'rhe object of this motion is to giye to all be asked. politiml parties a fair chance at the poll. 'l'he present Government are operating under a redistribution of electorates tha.t was made FORM OF AKS\VERS TO QUESTIONS. to replace the very fair one instituted by the l\loore Government. That Government found :V1R. SPEAKER's RuLrxa. it necessary to have a redistrilmtion of State ~Ir. li!ORRIS (Kelvin Grove), without electorates bc,·ause of the very grave abuse notice, asked Mr. Speaker- that existed for many years, and enabled previou-s Labour Governments to succeed at '' Is it the usual parliamentary procedme the polls. 'l'he state of the electorates prior when an hon. member asks a question of to 1 9~9 was sc:rn(lalous. The Attorney the Minister that the reply should be General, now sitting on the front benches, charged >vith studied insolence towards the represented in this Parliament at one time questioner~ '' only 2,662 electors. There were only 3,387 lUr. SPEAKER: It is not usual for electors in the l\Iou·nt 1Iorga.n seat, whereas questions to be directed to the Speaker. at that time many hon. members of the Oppo sition held seats that were greatly over the quota. I have not the slightest doubt that by such means the Labour Party was able to hold QUESTION. po\Ycr in Queensland for a great number of SUBSIDIES TO KINDERGARTEXS. )'l'ars. Finally, the matter became an open scandal. Mr. MORRIS (Kelvin Grove), without notice, asked the Secretarv for Public Instruc- The Attorney-General: How did we tion- " manage to win in 1932, after your redistri ''~Will the :Minister consider the adYisa bution'? bility of subsidising all kindergartens in ~fr. JUAHER: That is a testimony to Queensland, and ~o assist this splendid the fairness of the redistribution. The fact work to continue'?'' remains that the Government, in ananging the distribution after 1932-pcculiarly suited The SECRETARY I<'OR PUBLIC IN to their own success-ran true to form, STRUC1'ION (Hon. H. A. Bruce, The Tableland) replied- because that has been their practice in the political history of the State. '' As the matter would involve the Government in n lar·ge expenditure I ask An analysis of the rolls on 31 December, that the hou. member give notice of the 1928, disclosed the following facts:- question.'' Govern Oppo ment. sition. PAPER. The following paper was laid on the Electorates above the statutory maximum allowed under the tablc:- Electoral Districts Act of 1910 3 10 Electorates below the statutory Regulations, dated 4 September, 1939, under rninin1um 17 the Pish Supply Management Act of 1935. Redistribution of StaJ;e Electorates; [14 SEPTEMBER.] Compulsory Preferential Voting. 411
I am pointing out that they perpetuated the At that election, taking the aggregate primary nnfair elcctontl distribu-tions and that the votes received, the a\ erage voting per elected Government were running true to form. member was- l:"ndcr wch a glaring condition of unfairness the Government were able to win successive Votes. elections. Labour Party 6,000 In 1932 the ::.Ioore Government sought to Country Party 9,896 ·remer1y that condition, and I ·well remember l:"nited Australia Party 18,582< the (]ebates that took place in the party at that time. The general feeling of the hon. Those figures show the marked difference members who supported the JVIoore Govern betiYecn the fair redistribution of the Moore ment was that we should give a lead to all Govcmmcnt and the unjust redistribu·tion that parties in the State by having a fair and was carried ont in"1935. equitable redistribution of the electoral boun 'fhe figures show the position to be unjust. daries. We felt that if >Ye led the way and Obviously, something is radically wrong when showed that there was a political party that the voting for members elected shows snch paid some regard to fair play and gave each a tremendous difference between three of the side an equal chance at the polls, it would be leading political groups. The rearrangement difficult for any succeeding Government to of electoral boundaries has not been carried alter that condition. On that basis we out with that degree of equity and fairness arranged the electoral redistribution on "Which that every political candidate has the right the 1932 elections took place. to expect. In the realm of sport there is a Tl1e, Attorney-Geum·al: Who did you sporting instinct. \V e like to see horses lined up at the barrier get away to a fair start, say arranged it~ and to see the horse with most stamina and Mr. MAHER: We appointed a com speed win the race. In the fistic arena we mission n hi eh determined the alignment of like to see the best man win. Generally, that elc~tora tes. is the instinct that penades the whole of the Australian community. There should be The Secretary for Health all!l Home fair play and each contestant should have Affairs: As Mark Twain used to say, an even start with the others. I am quite '• When in doubt tell the truth.'' satisfied, from c-lose observation of the elec lUr. JUAHER: Ministers are in a rather toral boundaries since the last change, that frivolous mood this morning. I hope, how we are not facing the campaign barrier on an eqnal basis. Parties opposed to the ever, that they will listen to the evidence that Government are unfairly handicapped, and I propose to submit, because, after all, the the principle of parliamentary government weight of evidence is the thing that convinces by the will of the majority of the people does the reasonable person. not exist. \\'hat happened at the '1932 election~ That fact is borne out by the figures I 'rhere >Yore 55 contested electorates, and the have quoted in regard to the average votes Country-Kational Party polled 205,758 votes per elected member in the 1938 elections. In and the Labour Party 217,389 votes. 'rhe those elections the Labour Party polled 47.5 estimated voting in the seven uncontested per cent. of the total primary votes, but electorates, on the basis of giving two-thirds obtained 44 seats out of 62, equivalent to 71 of the total enrolment to the sitting member, per cent. of the total members in the House. was 19,607 votes for the Country-National ObYiously, the system is not recording a true Party and 32,388 for the Labour Party, expression of the democracy of Queensland making the total voting in the 62 electorates under such conditions. 225,365 for the Country-National Party and 249,777 for the Labour Party. Under that It is not a question of gaining advantage alignment the Country-National Party won for this or that political party. The object 29 seats and the Labour Party 33, while the is to maintain the sacred principle of demo average vote required to elect a member cracy and ensure that the will of the majority and this is of importance-was 7,771 for of the people shall prevail, whether it is the Country-National Party and 7,569 for in favour of the Labonr Party, the Country the Labour Party. Those figures show that Party, the United Australia Party, or any the redistribution that was effected during the other political group. In our democracy we Moore regime was just and equitable and that have to allow for the fact that any kind of under it each party had a fair chance at the political group might spring up. Conditions polls. might necessitate the rise of a political party with a new outlook; it is right and proper ·what do >Ye find at the 1938 election~ At that that group should have the opportunity that election the seats of Charters Towers, of expressing itself eyen though it may be Darcoo, and Cunningham were uncontested, regardecl as unorthodox in the eyes of the and the total voting, again giving two-thirds great majority of people. It will have its of enrolment to the party holding the uncon day-if it has a case it will go ahead and win, but if it has no case it >vi]] disappear tested electorates, was- from the political horizon. We must be pre Votes. pared for these things, accept them as they come, and meet them by reason and Labour Party 263,971 argument in the right place. Therefore, in Other candidates 291,997 a democracy there should be the fullest scope 412 Redistribution of State Electorates; [ASSEMBLY.] Compulsory Preferential Voting. for recording the true feeling of the majority to express their will by a majority vote in of the people. a proper wny, there is danger; democracy will be thwarted and something will be The Treasurer: And giving effect to it. thrown up in its place. Democrac:y ha~ l\Ir. l\IAHER: And giving effect to the ceased to exist in many other countnes oi true feelings of the majority of the people. the 1vorlcl at the present time-in Russia, The Treasurer cannot find consolation in Germany Italy, Spain, Greece, Bulgaria, reflecting that his Govenunent are in office Rumania; Czecho-slovakia, Hungary, and to-clay on a minority of the total votes cast Portugal. at the last election. 'Ehere is nothing static, nothing certain in The Treasurer: Your statement assures this world· eventhing is liable to change. me that you cannot make any advocacy of a 'l'ha t is th~ trer:n:'endous lesson of life. \V e nominee Upper House. go about our daily work as if :v_e were h_ero for a thousand years and as rf everytlnng lUr • .'UAHER: I am not debating the were certain to remain as it is, although there subject of reconstituting the Upper House. may be tremendous changes in a year or two. That is the old red herring that is drawn As Lord Byron said in '' Childe Harold' '- across the trail to divert attention from the salient issue. The question before us is ''A thousand years scarce serve to form whether this House, which is elected by the a State; people of the State, properly reflects the An hour may lay it in the dust.'' will of the people. It can give no sa tisfac There is change about us on every hand. tion to the members of the Government that The present Government may feel smugly they hold their big majority in this Parlia self-complacent to-day and . strongly ment on the minority of the total votes enthroned in the seats of the mrghty, but recorded at the last elections. That is not who knows what feeling may be fermenting democracy. in the minds of the tens of thousands or The Attorney-General: Who do you their fellow citizens '1 suggest should be the Govemment to-day~ If those people feel that the Government ::!Ir. 3IAHER: That matter would be arc holding power on a minority vote a_nd decided bv the people. If there were a fair that they fail to take proper steps to grvc redistrihution of electoral boundaries with the democmts, through the constituencies, a compulsory preferential voting, we should chance to express themselves fully, you ncYer have a record of the people's wish in this know where that feeling might lead to. matter, and only a party gaining the Australia has lived through a very easy time. majority of the yotes of the people would We have a tremendously rich cou:ntry, with a be 'able to govern. If present conditions arc great capacity to produce wealth, but only a persisted in, if we are going to thwart the limited population. Therefore, the wealth wish of the majority of the people by mani production per capita has been hi~h a~d .t~e pulating electoral boundaries, and if we arc Australian has become an easy-gomg mclrVl going to continue a sy~tem of voting that dual. \Vho knows, with an increase in does not giYe the majority of the people the population, YYith restricted markets, and with right to express themselves, we are gradu limited value~ for the 1vealth we produce, ally peTpetuating an autocrac,v and not a what difficulties might arise in the future democracy at all. EYentually, that can only and in the near future at that~ Thorefore, lead to subversive acts and possibly a revolt the time is ripe for the Government to give against such conditions. ''Straws show how very serious consideration to this important the wil](l cloth blow,'' and I submit that the problem. recent burlesque, the coup d 'etat that took It is to me rather a strange thing that place in the Legislative Council Chambe1· those who proclaim most loudly the maxim, when the League of Social Justice raided ''Vox populi, vox dei,'' that is, ''The voice the caucus meeting, is merely an expression of the people is the voice of God,'' claim to of the feeling of a great number of people be true democrats. Hon. members sitting on in the State to-clay that the majority view the Government benches and others have for is being disregarded, and that the people the last 20, 30 and 40 years, since the Labour who embarked upon this foolish escapade-- movement first came into being, arrogated to lUr. SPEAKER: Order! themsclYes the right to speak for democracy and claimed that they are the true democrats JUr. :1\fAHER: I merely mention it in and the true representatives of the people. passing to show that it is subversive in its nature, and if we are going to perpetuate an Government ~I embers: Hear, hear! unfair t·ystem of voting and tho Government JUr. J\IAHER: It is rather strange to show a determination to hold power at all me under those circumstances that these men, hazards and at all costs on a minority vote whilst clamoming for democracy Yl ith their of the people and fail to take the proper tongues, are in their public acts in fact steps to see that democracy is able to express throttling democracy by failing to give to itself truly, freely and fully, then such a the great body of the voting public in Government are really inviting subversive Queensland their proper rights and views in action. That is the danger to our community this important State. Why did they depart to-day and we have examples of it in other from a fair and equitable distribution as countries of the world at the present time. laid down by their predecessors in power~ If the Government deny the people the right That redistribution was so fair that the Redistribution of State Electorates; [14 SEPTEMBER.] Compulsory Preferential Voting. 413
present Go1·ernment won their ~way to power fnct that at last election the party that on it. There was no loading in that pollerl only 4 7 per cent. of the primary votes roclistribution. It mts a fair redistribution. should be able to win 71 per cent. of the That is reflected in the fact that the average representation in this Parliament is utterly Yotes received bv each member elected to this wrong anc1 cannot be justified by any means. Assembly, IYhcther Labour or Country· That gives weight to the argument that the J\ational, at that time ~was round about the time is ripe fm a redistribution on an snme-the average being 7,771 for the equitable basis, taking into account com Country-National Party representatives and munity of interest, and giving to each political 7,560 for the Labour rcpresentatiYes. Those group or to each candidate 1vho nominates an :figures show that the redistribution was equal chance at the poll. It is denied to him equitable and just. to-day. "What was the motive of the Government Then there is the important question of the in departing from that fair distrilmtion? abolition of the c-ontingent vote. I know this There could be only ono motive in the is a time-honoured institution in Queensland; Government's appointment of a royal it has been in foTCe since 1 S02-a wry long ronnEission to investigate the matter. Of time inc1eed-but it seems to me it has never that I have not the slightest dot ;people as to whether contingent voting should electorate should have any allvantage over be optional or compulsory, but after mrtking auothcr, keeping in mind the proviso that the a close study of the working of the :Fcclcral sparsely-populaterl area is entitled to some system for many years, and of the operation consideration, which it Yvill be generally agreed of the optional system in this State, I am is a fair basis of representation. In thickly satisfied that the only ,;my in which the popnlaterl centres, web as Brisbane and the people 's will can be truly and honcstl;c other eities of the State, the members in Par reflected is b:;· compulsory preferentirtl Yotint,;'. liament will represent a larger uumber of The Commonwealth Government pioneered it c1ecwrs than those representing country ;at a time \Vhen there were many critics. electorates. To-day, we have the striking success of the At any rate, that is the agreement, and Commonwealth system, even though there are it should. be observed unless the House desires rlou btors on the Government benches in this to make a wry radical change in the basis Parliament. They are only doubters because of representation. the; find it suits them to retain contingent I know >"•'rv well that the method we have :roting. a'lopted in (~lleensland is sommYhat different (Time expired.) trom the E'ederal system, where the same advantage is not gin•n to the country in the , 1\Ir. RUSSELL (Hamilton) (11.16 a.m.): llistribution of electorates as in the State. [ second the motion so ably moved by the If in State elections we were to apply the Leader of the Opposition. I think he has quota ail l'ound there Yl Juld be a pr<"ponder made a very clear case. ance of voting power in Brisbane, and we do 'l'hc time has arrived when there should be not llesire to haYe too much centralisation a l'euistribution of the electorates in Qu:cens of ,-oting strength, belieYing that thos0 lancl. I l'Cmember very well that the present representatives who come from the country A ttornev-General at the last distribution e"ntres should not be ovcnvhelmed, as it >rere, endeavoiued to persuade this House that the by purely city interests. case was urgent, as many anomalies existed Having defined that position, we go further and the Labour Party at the previous distri and say that as the basis of our electoral bution had not received a fair deal. If we representation is ''One man, one vote' '-that analyse the arguments advanced on that occa is to sa;r, that every adult under our very sion, it will be found that they were of a liberal franchise is entitled to vote-the flimsy n:1turc. The 1932 distribution was the natural corollary, of course, is that one vote fairc~t ono ever conuucted in this State. As should have one value. But that is not so pointeu out by the Leader of the Opposition, in Queensland to-day. One vote has not the the Labour Party came into office in 1932 on same value in every constituency, and the that distribution. commissioners should as far as possible see that \Vhatever anomalies have erept in during vVic have laid it clown in various Acts from the last few years should be rectified. time to time that the commissioners shall be instrueh·d to arrive at a quota by dividing That brings me back to what I said at the the number of members into the total number beginning, that there are a great number of of voters. They then have a discretion they anomalies that must be rectified so as to give may dlot to country electorates a voting fairer representation to the various parties strength as much as 20 per cent. less than the who are interested in politics in this State. quota and to city electorates as much as The United Australia Party has the biggest 20 per cent. more than the quota. 'l'hat has grievance. As the Leader of the Opposition been the rough ancl ready method agreed to has already pointed out, the quota of electors on various occasions. It was recogniseu that that was necessary to elect four members of if \le applied the quota to evmy electomte in the 'Gniterl Australia Party was 18,000, so Queensland, it woulu give a preponderance of that \Ve represent 18,000 each of the primary voting power to the thickly-populatecl areas 1·otes cast at the last election. of the State, to the detriment of those that were not so heavily-populated, particularly A Gon~rnment ~rember: There were no the sparsely-populated areas. That \vas the Labour candidates in some of the electorates. basis adopted, and if the Government intend I\Ir. RUSSELL: I give the Labour Party to abiue by that method they must be con cre,lit for three-fifths of the votes where they Yincerl that there are many glaring anomalies \",-ere not opposed. That is a fair allotment. in the number of electors in electorates in The •tnoh required to elect a Country Party Queensland. member ,Y>'as nearly 9,000, whereas Labour I take the view that we are desirous of members represent about 6,000 each. That is preserving our democratic form of gm·ern a glaring anomaly, anrl if hon_. members oppo ment, which has stood the test of time for site are fair they must adm1t that we have centuries. It is a system peculiarly adapted mnilc ont a ca;;c in favour of its immediate to English-spcaking communities. It has rectification. been successful throughout the Empire and Apart from the primary votes for membeTs other countries, although not so successful in of the United Australin Party, it must he Europn VI-bore peoples have abolished the borne in mind that we had no candidates in demccratic syatem of government and adopted a great number of seats where there were a other systems. Generally speaking, if we arc great number of United Australia Party sup to ring true to the principles of democracy, porters. I need only instance the electorates we should see that the people of the State of Albe1't and East Toowoomba, where the are represented in a fair manner. No one Country Party candidates were supported by 416 Redistribution of State Electorates; [ASSEMBLY.] Compulsory Preferential Voting. our people. I should say that there are just The representation of Brisbane should be as many United Australia Party supporters reduced to 19 seats and greater representa in the electorate of East Toowoomba as there tion given to outside centres. are in the Albert electorate. Moreover, the present hon. member for Bremer, the Trea 'iVhen we look at some of the large country surer, was opposed by a Communist only, and seats we are amazed at the large percentage a large number of United Australia Party of the electorates that are over the quota. supporters in that electorate voted for the Take the electorate of Albert. At the last hon. gentleman. election it had 10,023 electors. It is as big as some of the city seats, and some of the The Treasurer: That is not true. Some large seats in the towns. We have anomalies, of the votes went to the Communist candi too, in Uooroora and Wide Bay. Cooroora date. has 9,640 electors, which is far above the Mr. RUSSELL: I do not believe it. I quota, while \Vide Bay has 8,925 voters. can understand a Communist's voting for a Yet Gympie, which is a city area, has only Labour candidate or a Labour man's voting 7,610 electors! As a matter of fact, Gym pie for a Communist candidate, but no genuine was squeezed into a smaller compass and United Australia Party su·pporter will vote big batches of voters formerly included in for a Communist. I say that quite emphatic that electorate were shoved into Cooroora and ally. Of course, there may be isolated cases Wide Bay. It must be admitted even by the where the present member was not popular or hon. member for Gympie himself-I am not had offended someone and may not have got mentioning this in any personal sense-that his vote, but that does not alter the main the electorate of Gympie is far too sr11all, fact that United Australia Party supporters that its boundaries should be enlargccl and do not vote for Communists. I should say those of Cooroora and \Vide Bay should be the contrary is the fact. There were a great narrowed. That is one of the most glaring number of other electorates in Queensland instances of the unfairness of that redistri where a large number of United Australia bution. Party supporters voted for the Country Party candidate. Making a rough estimate of the I wish to mention a few more instances of electors who are in sympathy with the United country seats that have well over the quota. Australia Party, I should imagine that we Take the electorate of Fassifern. It has 9 ,679' represent at least 100,000, yet we have only electors-almost as big as any city c-onsti four members, giving us a quota of 25,000 tuency. each. That is a glaring injustice. If the At 11.30 a.m., Government are fair they must admit the The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (Mr. time has arrived when ou-r party should have greater representation than they have to-day. 0 'Keefe, Cairns) relieved .Mr. Speaker in 4.1.,._ -1...~!- If we analyse the figures of the last election we find that about 606,000 voters were enrolled Mr. RUSSELL: The Labour electorate for the whole of Queensland. That would give of Herbert-I wish to be fair to both sides a quota of about 9,783. The 20 per cent. -has 10,705 electors, a number above that of allowance above that number makes the per many city electorates. The Ta,blelancl has missible maximum for the thickly populated 10,078 electors. Its boundaries were extended areas of the cities 11,739, and the permissible to include some of the sugar areas. I cannot minimum for the country areas, 7,827. Only see where there was any commu·nity of one of the thickly populated city electorates interest between the people engaged in farm h~s over the maximum-namely, Wynnum, ing and timber business on The Tableland and w1th 11,939 electors. It is the largest elec the people engaged in canegrowing on the torate in Queensland. Oxley has 111,304 elec coast. As a matter of fact, The Tableland tors, nearly approaching the maximum South extended into the cane areas and the Cairns· Brisbane, a Labour seat, 11,J17, and'Logan electorate was narrowed. "Whereas 'l'he 11,584. Those four seats are the only four Tableland has over 10,000 electors the elec seats in the city area that approach anything torate of Cairns has 9,021. That indicates: like the number required of them. If we that the Cairns electorate should be' enlarged analyse the rest of the Brisbane seats we find and The Tableland should be narrowed to its they are all below the limit. Actually the own limits. The only country seats under city of Brisbane is over-represented to-day. the quota nre the Labour seats of Barcoo and If we take into consideration the fact that Gregory. To be fair, the boundaries of these the quota is arrived at by dividing the num two electorates should be extended to bring ber of voters into the number of electorates them up to the quota, at least. I quite admit and then 20 per cent. is added to it, we find tha!t there should be some distinction in that every seat in the city of Brisbane other country araas as between very sparsely popu than those enumerated is below the statutory lated areas like Gregory and Barcoo an cl maximum. We know how that occurred. In farming arens like Cunningham or Aubigny. the 1932 redistribution the representation of I dare say that the commission would tah the city of Brisbane was reduced to 19 seats. that into consideration in allotting the num That is all it was entitled to on a fair basis, bers for these electorates, that is, they 'Youlcl but the present Government, thTough their put the sparsely populated districts on the very commission, established the new electorate of lowest figure consistent with the Act. But Baroona-a long, narrow piece of country we find that the electorate of Murrumba has especially to make an extra seat for Labour. almost 10,000 voters, a number almost as As a matter of fact, the inclusion of Baroona great as the number for some of the city was unjustified, and is not justified to-clay. seats and gre-ater than the number in some Redistribution of State Electorates; [14 SEPTEMBER.] Compulsory Prcfuential Vot:ru}. -U 7 of the towns in Queensland. :\Iaryborough, party in the State \Yould be represented in this which is a I"abour seat, has only 9,801 elec House according to its numbers. I know that tOTs, and Townsvillc has only 9,856 electors. is a very difficult problem, but in Tasmania · ;o-;mely, J\Ir. Speaker, it must be obvious that it is the practice for members to be elected these large centres of population like l\Iary according to the strength and aggregate vote lJorough, 1'o>Ynsville, and Charters Towers of the party. It can be said of the Tasmanian the latter electorate having only 7,516 electors :Parliament that every section of the com -should have their boundaries extended, and munity is represented according to its aggre the boundaries of electorates like Illurrumba, gate strength. I am not advocating that that :b'assifern, \Vide Bay, CooroOTa, Herbert, very intricate system be imposed on Queens Cook, and Kennedy should be nanowec1 down. land, but I want the errors and anomalies oi There are very few of the electorates in the present system rectified. It is very unfair Queensland that really comply with the Act. for the minority in this House to be brow beaten by the majority on the other "ide who , The Attorney-General: Are you aware represent a minority of electors. The that only seven are outside the margin} Attorney-General should at least answer that }Ir. RVSSELL: There are more than contention. that. Let me remind the Attorney-General of I think it was the hon. member for Bowen my figures. If he will tukc the quota and who interjected that we cut out se\·en Labour apply it to all the electorates he will find electorates in the last redistribution. 'l'hat cry that 11lwt I say is correct. has often been hurled across the House, but the present Government continued what was The .tttorney-General: I have the done in 1933. Have they restored the elec nnalYsis here. 'l'here are onlY seven seats outside the m·argin. • torates of Queenton, Flinders, Mount Morgan, Dalonnc, Mm·illa, and Paddington ' They Jir. ]iUS SELL: The Attorney-General haYe not. 'l'hey must admit that these might have more recent figures than I lwYe, electorates should have been wiped out long but in the main my figures are substantially before 1932. Why, the Attorney-General him <:orr12ct. self represented an electorate with on!;· 3,000 electors, and there ·were also Mount Morgan, The jJtorney-General: Your figure3 are 'Wl'Ollg'. Quecnton, J\Iurilla, and Paddington, all under the statutory limit, and their further Jir. RUSSELL: Will the Attorney existence was not justified. The redistribu General answer this: vVhy should the elec tion of 1932 wiped out 10 seats, of which torate of Albert contain almost as numv seven were Labour; not that we desired to electors as the electorate of, say, Knrilpa o·r have them wiped out because they 1vere South Brisbane" Does he admit it is a fnir Labour, but because they were not entitled thing that the electorate of \Vide Bay or to the representation they had. There ·was l'ooroora should contain more voters tha;1 the the spectacle of the Attorney-General represent electorate of Gympie~ Can he ;:~ns1Yer that: ing 3,000 electors, yet having as much say in The Attorney-General: Yes, I will this House as an hon. member representing ans\YE'l' everything. 12,000 electors. That is not fair representa tion. The hon. member should haYe had only Jir. RUSSELL: I shall be very pleased a quarter of a vote here. Is there anything to have his answer. to ,justify the continuance of a system under I think I have said enough about the figures which he and other representatives of pocket to show that there are a great number of boroughs can haYe all the say in this House anomalir-s that mnst be corrected, and that and cre:1te a Government majorit;· 9 The c.on only be done by redistTibution. people of Queensland should be repre:cented in a fairer manner, and that can be accomplished :u.r. Hugg·an: That is your only l1ope of only by having the electorates redistributed on gettmg back to office. a. fair basis-quota plus or less 30 per cent., }fr. RUSSELL: It is not a qut-stion as the case may be. That is not so to-day. whether I am here or there. I ITish to cl0 In any redistribution that may take pbcc, my duty by the clertorates of Queensland. I I hope that dne consideration will be given to am not anxious for office, I ean assure yon; community 0f illterest and geographical boun at the s<~me time I shall not shirk any duty daries. I pointed out one instance in which· llnposell on me. I want to see a fair distribu community of interest was not taken into tion, so that we can honest] v sav that we are consideration in an;- way. A horly of people being ruled in acconLmcc' with clen!ocratic living together in what is termed ~ommuni',v principles. of interest should haH' direct rcp1·cscntation, Surelv the Government do uot think they provided they can get it by comfonning to repJ·esc,;t the majority of the people of Qnecns the law as to the permissible variation from l;mrl! The analysis of the voting at the last the quota. Any interest not akin to their clcetion shows that they have 4G members on interest should not be included in thnt area. :1 minority vote, and the other parties in the That is not so in Queensland. House nre under-represented. It is a bad \Vere geographical boundaries o bsen-ecl in thing for Queensland to have one party pre the last distribution~ One finds the boun ponderating and another party in a hopeless daries zigzagging all over the place, to take in :md helpless minority. As a matter of fact, little pocket boroughs of Labour complexion. the means to get truest representation would A Government Jiember: Tha" is a. be the preferential system, under which every reflection. 1939-P. 4lf; Redistribution of State Electorates; [ASSEMBLY.] Compulsory Prejerential Voting. Jir. RC:SSELL: I care not whether it say that the present system is not right. is a reflection or not. The system that applies is one whereby the electors of the State are not represented in the The Secretary for Public Lands: You Senate according to their aggregate strength. will say anything. Moreover, the present system, under which lU:r. RUSSELL: I can name many elec we have to vote for three men, giyes an undue torates in Brisbane. ~We find the boundaries advantage to the men whose names appear zigzagging all over the place instead of at the head of the ballot paper, and whose taking straight lines or following natural names start with the letter ''A. '' In the contours, such as ranges of hills or lines of last New South vVales election all the Labour rreeks. Community of interest and candidates' names started with the letter geographical boundaries should not be lost ''A,'' and they were elected, because there sight of. is no doubt that there are many hundreds of electors who do not know '' B from a I come now to the question of the institu· bull 's foot'' about politics. tion of compulsory contingent voting. I know th:1t there is a good deal of diversity lUr. Duggan: Do you want to be a of opinion, lmt, after all, I f1o not think that Labour Senate candidate~ that di,·ision is really based on a sense of fairness or justice, Lut simply on the fact JUr. RUSSELL: No. What I mean is that prnticnlar members think that it might that the people who cannot be bothered with or might not suit them. Personal interests politic9 simply record their votes straight should ll(:t be considered when dealing with down the ballot paper from one to ten, conse this mattcl'. \Ve must do what is right. The quently, those \Yhose nnmes start with ''A'' question is whether \\'8 should establish a have a better chance than the candidates system of a compulsory second vote or carry whose names start with '' Y, '' '' R'' or (>n \Yit h the present system of yoluntary '''f.'' That does not apply in Queensland rontingent voting. State elections, because all our electorates are single and the method of voting is very I take this Yiew: Enrolment is compulsory. simple. Having compelled the people to Ewry adult must enrol under penalty of fine, enrol we should compel them to denote their and every voter must vote or suffer a fine. choice of canf1idates. Many people do not \Yant to vote-thev are quite indifferent-but we do say that :is we Moreover, it would give a chance to the 'haYe giYen every adult one ,;ote he must candidates of parties other than the Labour exercise his vote so that \Ye can arrive at the Party, the Country Party, and the United true opinion of the people as to the candi Australia Party. Under the present system dates and the legislation that will be intro of machine politics an endeavour is being duced :dter their election. 'fhen, where there made to force electors into one, two, or three are a mnuber of candidates in single elector camps. That is a worse eompulsion than ates, as in Queensland, eYery Yoter should be compelling them to vote in order of ehoice. ,compclle<1 to state his or her order of choice I would give every party in the State, no so that the successful candidate may honestly matter what doctrine it holds, the oppor say: ''I represent the majority of the elec tunity of running candidates for election. lf tors." \Ve do not find that in Queensland a party's candidate can get a majority of ~to·day, O\Ving to the failure of the electors votes on the compulsory second count, let him to exercise the contingent Yote, not because occupy the seat. Do not restriet the choice ~they do not like the candidate, as was alleged of candidates to the endorsed cnndidates of by the hon. member for Gympie, but because the Labour Party, Country Party, and United they~ are frightened of the contingent yote. A nstralia Party. Allow the voters to express a That applies to both parties. It is stupid to ehoice for anv 'candidate whose name is men· take up that attitude, because there is no tioned on the" hallot paper. I honestly think lwnn in exercising the contingent vote. All that the institution of compulsory second it mean, i~: ''If I cannot get the man I Yoting would give the electors a wider choice 1Yant, I get the next hest man.'' That is than they hn\-c to·day, and-what is more wh;r we ask that the people exorcise their important-the elected candidate could saY ch~ice, and. tha~ the compulsory system that in this House that he represents the majority JS m opc·rz,non m the Fcdernl sphere he insti· of the electors in his electorate. :\fanv elected tnted here. It has worked successfully in candidates represent minorities. ' the Fec1er8l sphere because the candidates We say that under the present system of "·ho han' been elected to the House of government the majority must rule and until RepresentntiYos and the Senate can say: '"e alter that system we must endeavour to "IVe repre:oent the majority of the electors." a,rrive at the verdict of the majority. 'l'o How rmmy of the members of this Parlia· ment enn say that? arriw at that verdict, electors must be com pelled not only to enrol hut also to express The Secretary for Public Lands: Do their votes in the order of choice of candi · you think the Senate is fair'? dates. If we do not beli8\·e in that prin ciple, '"" should revert to the fiystem of pre The ~eeretary for Public Works: Do you ferential Yoting, under which eYery party agree v;.nh the House of Commons system of \Vould be represented in this House accord representation? ing to its aggTegate strength in the State. llfr. RUSSELL: I do not wish to be I hope the Gon'rmncnt will not. as has drawn off the track-I have my own views been snspectec1, endeavour to abolish contin· about tl,·~ P]ection of the Senat~-but I will gent voting this session. I !mow it will suit Redistribution of State Electorates; [14 SEPTEMBER.] Compulsory Preferential Voting. H9 :hem so to tlo, because their ranks are dis seats that disappcare tent. and if >vc add the five members repre there are 50 eledorates, four of w~1ich, scnti;lg the adjoining town of ~ ewcastle, w~ totalling 3,669 electors, arc entire~y ~xen:pt find that in ='Jew South Wales 53 per cent. of from the operations of any red1stnbubo1; the memlwrs represent Sydney and J'\ewcastlc. system. They are in the far north-west of the State. The number of electors is as low Let ns eompare the Vietorian system with as 600. In \Vestem Australiu, too, they have onrs. That State is in the anomalous IJOsition a system of quotas. There are three schedules of having no redistribution machinery at all. -metropolitan, agricultl~ral, mining _and Thev have 6-3 electorates. Prior to 1928 they pustoral. Three electors ~n the metr_opohtan had· the t hrec-qnota system, metropolitan, area count as two one 1n the agncultural urlmn, aJl(l country. The maximum for a area as one, and 'one in the mining and eitv elertor:1te YYas 25,300, and the mlmmum pastoml as two. The result is this: 100 votes for a countn· electorate was 8,500, a dicpar in a metropolitun seat have a value of 66, ity of 16,SOr"l voters bet>veen the highest and 100 votes in an agricultural seat have a value lowest. ::\ollocly could reasonably wpport of 100 and 100 votes in a pastoral or mmmg ..:;;uth a sy~teni. seat a' value of 200. So thut one mining In 19~8 a commission recommended a new or pastoral vote equals three city votes. distribution, but that Yl·as rejected. 'fhcy now In \Vestern Australia the seat of kn·e another schedule, although the number Roebourne with 677 votes on 18 March, 1939, of seats remains at 05. The electorates were had 1·1 tin;es more members than did the seat contained in the Bill, and Parliament of N ecllands with 11,670 votes. No seat in appTovcd of it. They retained the principle Queensland has more than half as much as vf the three quotas, urban, country, and any other. metropolitan. \Vhat do we find under that? In the metropolitan are::t the number of JUr. lUaller: That was called "Naughty 1e>lectors to a seat varies from 20,000 to N cdlands'' in my time. 32.000, in country seats the numbers run from 8,000 to 12,000. The ATTORNEY -GENERAL: The Leader of the Opposition can call it what he likes; I 1Ur. :J.lart: There is nothing wrong ·with quote that only to show the methods of redis that. tribution. None of their systems comes up to the excellent one that obtains in Queens The ATTORNl~Y-GENERAL: If there land. I have compared the systems operating is nothing ,-.-rong with that, what are hon. members opposite complaining of? Of the in the Commonwealth and the various States total repre:'entation of Yictoriu 40 per cent. with ours, and ours shines a.bove them all. is in the city of l\Ielbourne. lir. Daniel: How is preferential voting appliccl in the other States~ ~Ir. }Iassey: What is the percentage of population? The ATTORNEY-GJ~NERAL: I shall come to that later. \Vhen the Leader of the The ATTORN.EY-GE~ERAI,: It does not mntter. Opposition referred to the redistribution of 19i14 he was very concerned, but he was lUr. Jiassey: Yes, it does. tlclightecl because he says that the fact that the ~Labour Party won in 1932 showed how The _FI'TOR~fiW-GENERAL: The hon. member should realise hmv essential it is eminently fair the 1931 redistributio~1 was. to have adequate country representation. In Ou the contl·ary, it showed ~ow emmently Queenslnnc1 representation of the metro unjust his Government were m the eyes o~ politan area is 32 per cent. only, whereas in the public. \Vc >Yere returned regardless of Victoria it is 40 per cent. I am snre no the lwnrlicap that >vas imposed upon us. If hon. member here 1vould stand for a system tl1eir redistribution >vas fair because we could such as that. >vin an election upon it, why do they say that ours, upon which they were elected, was In South Australia there are 39 members. unfair? (I~aughter.) They were elected on There is no parliamentary machinery fol' om redistribution in 1929. redistribution of electorates. 'l'hero th0y H]'point nn<.1 direct a royal commission anc1 lUr. }faher: Bur it took a revolution of then pas,; an Act am1 nttach to it a puhlic opinion to do it. schedule delineating the boundaries of the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: When we electorate~. That is the end of it. We find carried out a redistribution in 1934 all the such a difference as this: the electorute of commission ditl was to abolish one countr~· Torrens has 18,000 electors, but the country seat and create a metropolitan seat. That l'kctorntc of Frome only 4,000. The Leader "·as the onlv disturbance, apart from an of tlw Opposition quoted figures in order to equitable redistribution of areas, _and our show discrepnncies and disparities in Queens commission received paeans of prmse from hnd. Is there anything to equal that in members of the Opposition for their labours, Queensland~ nnd the lear1er of the chorus was the Jir. }faher: Worse. Take Flinders. present Lem1er of the Opposition. He was satisfied with his own distl·ict, although he The .'tTTORNEY-GENERAL: That is regretted the loss of l'lfarburg-(laughter) ridicnlou.'. That was unprecedented. A "·hich he ref0n-cd to as ''My Burg.'' He mining slmnp caused the people to go away, said he was fnlly eomnensated, however but only temporaril~-- by getting Hanis,:ille. The hon. member I 1vomler whether lion. members prefer for Oxlev said that he could not have the \Vcsteru Austn!lirm s~·stem under which done hettc·r himself-(laughter) --that he 422 Redistribution of State Electorates; [ASSEMBLY.] Compulsory Preferential Voting. Tealised that the commissioners had a very South-Western Queensland- difficult task, but they had done their work Enrolment ;).81 vel'\' welL I have a whole sheaf of eommenda, tio;1s from members of the Opposition, but I RepTcsentation . . 6.45 shall not quote any more. That goes to show that the percentage of Both the Leader of the Opposition and the electors within each class of area almost hon. member for Hamilton referred to the coincides '>Yith the representation in this state of the electorates and the need for House. It shows that that redistribution was redistribution. Before I go into any serious one of the most equitable ever carried out in argument, I want to know whether they are Queensland. really serious in that contention. I think I have saicl enough. I have shown )Ir. Maher: Your technique was to make the method of redistribution in Queensland; safe seats safer against those who opposed I have sho'>vn the methods of redistribution in you. every other State of the Commonwealth. I haYe asked hon. members which they prefer. The A'l'TORNEY-GENERAL: You don't say so? (Laughter.) There is no argument EveTybody who is fair must admit that or case for any alteration in electoral boun our system is far and away superior to all daries. I hold in my hand the electoral the other systems in Australia. I ha,·e always figmes to 30 June last. They disclose that said that not 011ly is our system the faiTest only seven electorates of the 63 are beyond system but also that ouT administTation of the margin-there are two above and five the electoTal system is infinitely superior to below. Smely, there could be no justifica that of tl1e Commonwealth OT any of the otheT tion for a redistribution of seats every time States. I stand by that. I ·haYe said it there are t"·o or three above or below the again mHl again in this House \vhen discus margin. sing electoral registration and matters per taining thereto, and I have said that the :Mr. RusseU: Are you tabling those administrative machinery of the office was figures~ open to eYerybody to examine and analyse The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I will not it, to find out things for himself. For years only table them, but ask my officers to seml I gaYc a stancling im-itation to ewry member the hon. member a copy. I repeat that there of the Opposition to ,·isit the elertoTal office are two above and five below the margin. to see how it woTked and to assure himself that there was nothing wrong. Jir. R.ussell: It is an exaggeration. It is Tat her amusing to hear hon. m cm hers Tile ATTORNEY -GENERAL: The figures opposite "~'pealing for an equitable redistribu arc here. I do not want to waste the time tion of representation in Parliament. of the House by reading the figures for each electorate. It is over four years since we JUr. Daniel: Tell us about the actual had a redistribution, and only seven elec votes east. torates are beyond the margin. In that )fr. lUaller: The average vote for each slight departure from margins, 2,920 votes elected representative. are represented. ~When we conducted a redis tribution in 1934 there had been a clcpartme The ATTORNEY-GE~ERAL: I am com of no fewer than 14 seats ::cbove or below the ing to all those things. No borly of men margin. That took place in n period of two did more to llestroy the principle of represen and a-hnlf years. In a period of two and tation in Parliament than hon. nwmhers oppo a-half years 14 seats had exceeded the margin site dic1 when they had the chance. The -above or below as the case might be reduction of the number of members of Parlia whereas in four yeaTs only sew~n seats have ment by 10 made it almost impossible to gone beyond the margins. That fact shows have community of interest. I have a recol that our redistribution was infinitelv more lection too of a serious proposr1l by hon. perfect than that conducted by the Govern members opposite to establish a check on this ment of hon. members opposite. House, a check on the elected representatives of the people by the creation of an Upper As further proof of the justice of the House. Surely hon. members opposite \Yill 1934 · redistribution, I gi,-e the following not deny that a definite attemnt \Yas made to figures:- introduce-- - Division. Percentage. Mr. Maher: That is not relevant. C\fetropolitan m·ea Enrolment The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: It is Representation .. relevant. What is the good of talking about equitable representation in this House if it Southern Queensland is to be dcstroyetl by the creation of another Enrolment :20 House? That is the point. Representation .. 30 ~Ir. lUassey: What about the referen- Central Queensland dum? • Enrolment 10.53 The ATTOR.NEY-GENERAL: The hon. Representation 11.29 member ''"ants to l'no\Y what \Yas the result ?\ orth Queensland of the referendum and he shO\YS conclusively Enrolment 18.35 that he is keen on an r pp er House. Representation .. :;1-Ir. Massey: I am asking a question. Hedi.,tribution of State Electorates; [14 SEPTE~IBER.] Compulsory Pr·eferential Voting. 423 'l'lle J.TTORXEY-GENERAL: And I am conscience by requiring me, after ':'oting f~r ·;,sking t!le hon. member a question too a Labour man, to Yote for a sectanan candi is he in favom of an l!pper House'l date or a Communist candidate, or, in fact, any other candidate opposed to my convic liir. ::uassey: Yes, if possible. tio"ns? To ask me to do that would not be The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Of course democratic· it would be autocratic. Compul lie is. I am Yery glad to have that admis sory prefer'ential voting is devoid of all ideas sion on l>ehalf of the Opposition that they of democracy. are in fayom· of an Upper House if they get It may be said that compulsory enrolment the chance. \Yhat is the good of talking about and compulsory voting are logical, and that equital1lc rcpn'scntatiou in this House if they b('ing so, compulsory preferential voting. is are going to create an Upper House, not. as also logical. 'l'hat is carrying the proposttlon :m CXprcssi·. n of the \Yill of the people-- to a logical absurdity. I might be able to Jlir. :Uas~ey: At the will of the people. agree with one candidate, but it is unreason able to expert me to agree with all candidates 'I'l!e AT'I.'ORNEY-GENERAL: No. The and all parties. When you ask me to vot~ L-ppcr House that they proposed to establish preferentially to the limit of the number. of \'cas not in accordance with the expressed will candidates on the ballot-paper, you are domg t•f the but one based upon economic something that outrages public opinion and iJJtcrcsts. haYe the partic-ulars here. There ,-iolates a man's conscience. It is totally were t-o l.JC :; 1 members, 15 elected on economic opposed to the principle of democracy to interest'. an11 J :3 to be nominated, so that make a man do anything of the kind. 30 wou]'l l'cprcsent the Government of the "hen ~W-:l!Sing this Govenunent and this party very legislation they passed in order to bring of making redistributious for the purpose of about redistribution is the basis upon which keeping themselves in power, that in times this Gm·e1·nmcnt made their last redistribu past, when gentlemen \vith political opinions tion. Therefore, the Opposition cannot similar to theirs were in power, they made honestly complain that they have been unfairly use of every device to stem the rising tide trcatc Jir. BRASSINGTON: The number State to-day? Do >ve not only read those enrolled for that division was 9,509. There arguments in the Protestant ''Clarion''-- ~hould be no complaint from East Tomvoomba, for the reason that it has the best representa Mr. Morris interjected. tion in this House-so the hon. member for lUr. BRASSINGTON: The official organ East Toowoomba tells us-that is a matter of the hon. member who interjects, but also fur hon. members to decide. Let us travel hear them from interested persons in the north and take the figures fm- the city of Press throughout the State~ Their arguments TmYnsville. There were 9,556 electors in are similar in tone to those advanced by the Townsville, whereas the adjoining electmate Leader of the Opposition, but, if he is sincere nf Kennedy had 9,760. 'l'hat is an instance in his desire to pl'escrve democracy in this to show that the proportion of representation State, it is l1is duty to face the issue, to is evenly balanced between tmvn and country. defend democracy in a practical way and not The same position exists in Cairns. The merely give lip service to it, as he' has done number entitled to vote at the last election to-day. >vas 9,121, and in the adjoining country There can be no splitting of straws on this t·onstituem:y 8,536. Once again the balance very important principle. Hon. members must seems to be fair and just. J\1ackay, the decide either that they are for democracy or Premier's electorate, had ] 0,157 persons against it, and it is the duty of the Leader entitled to vote as against 9,976 in :\[irani. of the Opposition, as the head of a responsible It >Vill be seen from the figures I have men political party, to support it. It is his duty tioned that no other conclusion can he also to say in this Parliament that if demo arrived at other than that the excellent case cracy is being challenged, it is not because made by the Attorney-General in reply to of the redistribution of electoral seats, m arguments adduced by the Leader of the because of the legislative action of this Opposition must be endorsed by all reason Government, but because of the rottenness of able men. the economic system, and that no matter what Mr. Yeates: You forgot about the boun this Government may do to rectify the posi daries and the shape of the electorates-- tion, it still leaves many of our citizens without a just return for their effort and ::iir. BRASSINGTON: The hon. member the protection to >Thich they are entitled. says that I have forgotten about the boun The Leader of the Opposition should recog daries and the shape of the electorates. If nise that that is the reason >Yhy, in some the present Government accomplished nothing quarters, the people are restless about demo else, at least they did something in the cracy, and he should not try to give the interests of the people when they brought impression that the restlessness is due to the about a IWW redistribution of seats and redistribution of electoral boundaries or ' removed ·what was the most disgraceful the legislative acts of the Government. r >~e attempt at jockeying electoral boundaries that sooner he does what I suggest he shall' . do, this State has ever known, and that was the the sooner he will be on sound ground, and in redistribution by hon. members opposite >vhen a position to support the Government in the they were in power. progressive legislation that they may bring Mr. lUaher: That is an unreasonable forth from time to time. I have clearly and absurd argument. defined the real dangers that threaten demo cracy, and I repeat that they are not the lUr. BRASSINGTON: My argument is redistribution of electoral boundaries or the not unreasonable, especially as >Ye lmow that legislation that has been placed on the statute seven members of the Labour Party were book by the present Government. deliberately slaughtered. The hon. gentleman spoke loud and long ~Ir. lUaher: Why? on the contingent vote. Being a true demo Jir. BRASSINGTON: Seven ~ure Labour crat, I expected him to put forward the seats >viped out! I am surprised that the opinion that contingent voting, no matter hon. gentleman should ask why, when the what may be its faults, has in it the prin burden of his argument to-day was fair repre ciple of freedom of thought and the right sentation for country interests. I submit, and of citizens after having made their No. I T think that I have proved, that the present choice on the ballot-paper to wse their discre Tec1istribution gives fair representation to all tion with regard to the other candidates. If interests in this State. The argument of the they desired after recording their vote not Leader of the Opposition was fair representa to exercise a contingent vote, they should not tion for country interests, yet >Ye know that be requiTed to do so. his Government abolished 10 seats, nearly all JUr. Yeates: Do you believe in optional of which were Labour seats. Now, he says contingent voting~ that my argument is unreasonable. 2\'Ir. SPEAI\ER: Order! Let us consider the very remarkable state ment made by the Leader of the Opposition 2\'[r. Ye,a.tes: Do you believe in optional in introducing this motion-his apologia. 'rhe contingent voting~ whole burden of his speech >vas more or less lUr. SPEAKER: Order! When I call the the fear that democracy was being undermined hon. member foT East Toowoomha to ordeT, in this State. He instanced sewral happen I expect him to obey my call. If he does ings of recent months to show that t1le pcop!e not do so, I shall ha.-e to deal >Yith him. \vere dissatisfied and restless. Were not lns arguments more or less the arguments of lUr. BRASSINGTON: I believe that as every Fascist and every anti-democrat in the we live in a democracy it should be the right Address i,t Reply. [14 SEPTElYIBER.] Pest Destroyers Bill. 427 of eYel'Y ~itizen to exercise a free and LeoislatiYe Assembly, adopted by the House untramrr'lcllcd opinion. Under the system of on "12 September in reply to His Excellency's optional contingent voting, citizens are Openino- Speech, and that His Excellency has ,entitled to do that. been pleased to make the following reply:- What is the anxiety in the minds of hon. ''Government House, members opposite~ Why is the Leader of the ''Brisbane. Opposition- so agitated on the question. Apparently he realises that in years gone by ''MR. SPEAKER AND GENTLE:1IE='f,- his party has used and endeavoured to benefit ' 'As the representative of His l\Iaj esty by the use of contingent voting. The Govern the IGng, I express to the members of the ment rue not alarmed because the contingent voting s:·stcm is in force, for in the last Legislature of Queensland, in Parliamel!-t analysis >YC can trust the people to choose assembled, my sincere thanks for then IJetween a good political poliey and a bad expressions of continu:d lo:yalty to. the political policy, and use their discretion on throne and person of H1s MaJesty, wh1ch I the exercise of the contingent vote. In that shall at the earliest moment convey to the respect "·e trust the people and have every King. confidence that they will vote solidly for the ''You are good enough to exp_ress y~ur party that has the best policy and the best thanks to me for the Speech w1th wlnch political record in this State. I repeat, the I openecl the present session of Parliament, only reason why the hon. gentleman is .and to assure me that all the measures agitated is because he believes that his party referrc I::fCOl\IE (STATE DEVELOPl\IE~T) TAX thing further had to be done for the AC'l' Al\IEJ'\Dl\IE~T BILL. unemployed. 'l'hey consequently increased the unemployment relief tax on incomes over SECO~D READING-RESU}iP~'IOK OF DEBA'fE. £208 a year to 9c1. in the £1 on incomes 1lebate resumed from 13 September (see from £208 a year and upwanls and ls. p . .f09) on Mr. I<'oley 's motion- in the £1 on incomes of £499 a year. They were thus enabled to improve gradually the '' That the Bill be now read a second conditions of the unfortunate people who were thne.' 7 on relief and part-time work. l do not say that the Labom Government increased the tax Jir. COLLINS (Cook) (2.20 p.m.): One with any more jubilation than dic1 the Opposi could not but be amazed at the attitude hon. tion when they, as a Government, first intro members of the Opposition have adopted cluced the legislation. towards the Bill. Judging from their speeches, one would imagine that it >Yas a As ,soon as the affairs of the State had Bill to increase taxation or introduce a new improved enough, and the Labour Go\·ernment kind of taxation, whereas its purpose is to were able to do so, they started to give relief. give additional relief from taxation. 'l'hus we find that in 19i35 the Labom Govem mcnt startccl to Rive exemptions from this Hon. members opposite pride themselves on tax~~tion to the lo,\·er incomes. They started heing champions of reduction of taxation. by eliminating entirely all incomes below £78 They are always asserting that taxation in a year. 'l'hen, >ve gaYe further exemptions Queensland is too heavy, and clamouring for until t,o-day >ve are exempting all those a reduction. But when they were in pmYer incomes from the basic wage down, and this did they take the opportunity of reducing aetion is in accordance with the best canons taxation'? They now throw their greatest of taxation, because it is generally recognisecl strength against a BiU designel1 to Teducc that it is better to make taxation bear more taxation. When they went before the people on those who are enjoying the higher incomes. many yeaTs ago, in 1929, they promised that if they were given the opportunity they Further, we gave a reduction of tax to the would Telieve the people of the State of a extent of 2d. in the £1 to all those in receipt considerable amount of taxation, contending of incomes a bovo the basic wage. In doing that, amongst other taxes, the hospitals tax that the Government were only honouring the >ms most iniquitous and they would do away pledge that they gave to the people when >Yith it. In their policy speech they made no they rcceiYed a mandate from them in 1938. mention of the introdurtion ot the tax tlwt At 'that time we came · 1to Parliament pledged to reduce this taxat' Jll and we propose to this Bill reduces. ']'hey found they couW not 1 abolish the other forms of taxation that they do away with it a· :Jgether at the earliest had previously urged should be abolished. possible moment. ow the Opposition are They even imposed fresh taxation. Of course, assailing us for ueing taxation. It is I feel sure they were no happier than any •·cry hard to unil and their attitude. other Government at having to impose the tax I was surprised the Leader of the Oppo- for the relief of unemployment. Neverthe sition's statement t at the Government, when less, it was a Government of the politiwl they went to the p ple in 1938, ga.-e no hint parties of hon. members opposite who har1 to at all of either the reduction or abolition of impose this tax in 1930. And the tnx they this tax. The hon. gentleman's words were- imposed was a poll tax, and applied to every person in Queensland with :my income at all. '' It will be very evident from those state Not the smallest exemption was given to ments made during the election campaign anybody. that no hint was given in the policy speech nor in any statement made by the Premier }Ir. Wailer: We did not do the same as the Scullin Govemment did in the Fedcml or his party that the relief scheme was to Parliament, reduce pensions. be abolished.'' In order to refute that assertion I dc,sire to JUr. COLLINS: That is a side track and quote from the policy speech c1eliverecl by I slmll not follm.- the hon. member along it. the Premier at l\T ackay on 9 March, 1938. I do not sav that tl1e l\ioorc Government When speaking of taxation in general, ancl were very happy at havi;1g to impose the tax, Labour's policy with regard to it, he said- but they did not o bservo the best canons of '' It is the Government's policy to con taxation-at that time conditions were not as tinue existing methods of providing full bad as they eventually became after they had time employment with a view to extinguish been in power for some two or three years. ing relief work entirely." The poll tax of 3d. a head applied for a year, and then the Government found they had to The Government haye honoured that promise, increase the tax. 'l'hey dic1 not increase the and we are continuing the policy that •se put tax on the lo>Yer incomes, but on incomes of before the people-that of progressi.-ely reduc £10+ a year, on which tl1ey lifted the rate ing taxation as soon as that can be done. to Gd. in the £1. Dming their neriod of Surely there can be no complaint alJout the government, cond.itions gradually- became Government's doing that? To-day, ho>Yever, we >Yorse. Unemployment increasec1 from 9 per find the Opposition opposing a Teclnction of rent. to 19 per cent. In the mic1dle of 1932, the taxation that >Yas introclucet1 by the Moore the people of Qucenslam1 haltecl the opera Government. I hope that as time goes on we tions of that GoYernmcnt. A Labour Govern shall be able to reduce this tax progrcl!sively ment came into power and found that some· . to a greater extent. Income, &c., Act [lJ SEPTE~IBEH.] Amenclmrnt Bill. Here ~we have an instance in which the party this country am1 continually adding to the opposite are complaining bitterly about the pTOsperity and wellbeing of its people. actions of this Government. They introduced the tax and they say that if they were in We have been accuse which is brought alxll't ),~- improved economic they still do not pay their way, but has in a eonditions. marked degree brought them nearer to paying their way. Of course, hon. members opposite will ask: ''What are you doing with the extra money Another section of the Opposition-and. that you The Minister was quite honest and open in eonnection. It is pointed out that the detailing those figures in his spee'Cl1es on Commissioner grants relief from the pay both the first and second reading. Hon. mem ment of tax in cases where he is of bers opposite must realise and should be men opinion that it would be a hardship to enough to admit that this fund is being require payment.'' administered in the best possible \Yay by the Government and in the best interests o.f I know hon. members on the Opposition who the people who contribute towards it. As a go to the Commissioner of Taxes on behalf matter of fact, I am prepared to go to my of electors whenever thev think there is a. electorate next week and explain the position reasona!Jlc possibility of having the taxation and tell my electors that in the present cir reduced. The 1\linister went on to say- cumstances, when the nation is at war, we '' During the past two years the Com desire that this State development tax should missioner has relieved 30,489 taxpayer3 be kept going and, if needs be, increased. under the Income (Unemployment Relief) I am game to bet that the majority would 1'ax Act and the Income (State Develop ask me to come back to this House and ask ment) 'l'ax Act of payment of tax totalling the Government to continue the tax until the £127,756." condition of the State improved, when we could reduce taxation as we have promised Yet we have hon. members opposite endcav to do, and as we will do. oming to persuade the people that the State development tax hits them hard. Reference has also been made to the differential treatment of farmers with respect 'l'l1e Minister also quoted the Commissioner to this tax. In this respect I refer to the as follows:- remarks of the Minister some time ago when dealing with statements of the Opposition ''The majority of these taxpayers were as to the uses of this fund. On that occasion fanners and persons conducting small the Minister said- !Jusincsses, and the deciding facto1' in most cases was the small amount of income in '' Much has been said about the treatment relation to the number of dependants. So of the faTmer and the fact that the income that by this means the Commissioner has of a farmer results from the co-operation made allowance for dependants where it of the ·whole family, and that consideration \vas thought equitable to do so, and has thus should be given to that fact in assessing relieved that large body of taxpayers or the farmer's income for taxation purposes. payment of any tax at all.'' As a matter of fact, when dealing with that section of the communitv as well as There is no need for me to outline what with small-business men, the Commissioner happened during the period of 19~:9·1930 and of Taxes takl"' into consideration all costs 1930·31-bccalcse that has alrE''Jcly been involved in earning income. Deductions recalled to hon. members. The Opposition are always allo>>ed for wages paid to have endeavoured to lead the people to belie>"e children employed by any primar-y producer, that this is a Bill that will increase taxation and where no actual wages are paid deduc on the fanner and small·business man. ductions are allowed for the value of keep The Secretary for ]}lines: Instead of that and the cost of maintenance where children it will reduce taxation. arc employed in helping to earn the assess able income of the taxpayer. Therefore, it Mr. T. L. WILLIA]}IS: Yes, it i;s a Bill is clear that the primary producer is asked designed to decrease the amount of taxation. to pay tax on no more than his net earnings. Even though it is only in certain quarters Consideration is given by the Commissioner that the tax will be decreased it must be to any wages that he Jj.as to pay and, if he remembered that the man on the land always is not paying direct wages, deductions are benefits as a result of a decrease in taxation,. made taking the value of keep and other when and wherever applied. factors into consideration. As a matter of fact, the farmer gets many considerations :iJir. WALSH (Mirani) (3.19 p.m.): Some that the worker does not get. Those con very interesting remarks have been made siderations are not given to the worker during this debate. It was intcn''ting to hc:n because he pays tax on the amount he city men opposite opposing the speuding of receives weekly or fortnightly, as the case money in the countTy areas, and on the other may be.'' hand country representatives opposiEg a Bill that is designed to provide fmthcr exemp think the Minister >Yas fair in making that tions to the farming community. Rt~,tement. They vrcre not altogether his words. He was quoting the reasons given by lUr. JUalier: No, we have not opposed it. the Commissioner of Taxes for his actions JUr. WALSH: It is all very well for the :mrl rulings. hon. gentleman to say that, but the hon. gentle J,ater on in the debate, dealing with the man occupied a great deal of ti,~1e trying to granting of allowances, the Minister said- explain the attitu(t0 of his part;·. 'l'he only impression \Ye gathered was that hon. members '' Let us come to the qU"estion of allow opposite seem to find fault with the fact that anc,es for the maintenance of dependants. the Government hnd been able to rednre Certain information has been obtained from unemployment in this State by a greater per the Commissioner of Taxes as a result of centage than that hy >Yhich it has been the points raised by hon. members last reduced in any other State, and still maintain week. The same observations apply in this the high produdion that is evident through Income, &:c .. Act [14 SEPTE~IBER.] Amendment Bill. 435 tLc expoltE, and at the same time have been is greater employment in this State than in ~J)le to n:cluce taxation. any other. I remember when this scheme was first As to the statements made by the hon. mooted the Leader of the Opposition main members for Keppel and Oxley in reference tained that the Premier had stolen the to the large amount expended annually for Country Party's policy, but at a later stage, rations, approximately £500,000, there is a after the Premier made the announcement Yery good answer to their contention. vVhen tllrough the Press, he declared that the Govern they were in power they would not give a ment were throwing the relief workers to the number of women and children rations, but wolHs. Apparently, that \Yas the Country allowed them tb starve. To-day there are Party's polic:.-. vV e do not admit that we greater numbers of people on rations than kn·e taken a lead from the Country Party there were, because of the generous policy at any time. Rather is it the initiative or of the Labour Government. Even though La !Jour leaders that has been responsible for the amount increased to £700,000 yearly, that the happy position of Queensland. affords no basis for a case against the Govern ment. There are thousands of people who What prompted me to speak more than cannot be absorbed into employment reason anything else was the attempt of hon. ab!."- 'J'hc hon. member for Keppel lmmvs members opposite to justify the action of the that, and if there is one lwn. member more :Moore Government when they introduced this than another who should appreciate the t:~x. We contend that they aggravated the nction of the Government under this scheme, ]' Jsition b:;· reducing wages, dismissals from it is he. Any person who journeys north by Cro"·n employment, and so on. We have train as frequently as I do knows that heard an interjection from the hon. member at the present time in that hon. member's for Cooroora and a statement by the hon. electorate there are more road camps than member for Isis that the Scullin Government in :my other part of Queensland. Yet he is did cxactlv the same. The circumstances are the first to find fault with the Government's altogether" different. In Queensland a party policy. All that we can conclude from his led by the hon. member for Aubigny were attitude is that he is opposed to the develop· returned to power. They took control from ment of the country areas. a Labour Government who had administered the affairs of this State for 15 years. No During this debate, some very interesting State in Australia was more favourably situ materinl has been userl of which we can ated financially than Queensland. Credits in remind hon. members opposite in 12 months the Loan Fund amounted to £5,000,000, and or t1Yo years' time. Of course "-c realise ca~h bnlancc>s generally were better than at that c'ertain amount of it is propaganda., ftll'' other time in the historv of the State. in >vhich >YG on this side of the hvo•u0 HU'~ K~hvithstanding these advant~ges, the Moore indnlge. On the Government side, we have Government had to resort to large-scale dis the hon. member for Cook, the hon. member mi~sals of employees of the Crown. Thev for Port Curtis, and even the Minister him also set about reducing \Ynges. They imposed self representing rural areas. No better evi mon' tnxation. Compare those conditions with dence of the bona fides of the Government those that prcntilcd \Yhcn the Scullin Govern could be had than the fact that they are pre ment took office after 13 consecutiYe years pared to proceed with this measure, even of Tory malaclministration. The finances of though it meets \Yith a certain amount of Austrnlia y:ere uever in a more deplorable criticism from the Opposition, \vho condemn 'conclition. The trade lmlance was such that it despite the fact that it will mean the every hod:.- Tcalised that the J3ruce-Page provision of work for thousands of men in Gon'l'lli11Cllt were oul:· too willing to get out 1nany areas. ·nud haml oYer the mess to the Scullin Govern After all, \rhat is wrong with spending the ment. They, like mcu, took on the job and dwle of the S'tate cleYelopment tax in the faced the Tesponsibility rather than see the country areas? What is this city living on? conntT:- default. Conditions in the Qucene The hon. member for 1-Vynnnm wants to build Jnnd and the Federal sphere were altogether ~ boat harbour so that those who enjo;v fancy rlifferent. The finances of this State- were mcomes can go about in luxury np and dmvn hc::~lth:·, hut the Moorc Gm·crmnent could not the hay, as it were, whilst thousands bf ,:c, the joh properly. struggling producers cannot get decent roads Another argument, that as to the means to take their produce to market. I say of pa:·ing for ration relief, has been worn emphatically that if this Government can be thrcn in their cheeks when they say that special reeciwd >Yas llOs. The price of sugar has provision should not be made for the man c·ome dom1 by about £2 a ton compared with who has a job this week and who tloes not the price ruling when the party opposite ,~ere know >vhether he will have one next >Yeek. in office. Similar remarks could be made of The man who has his own property can pro every other primary product. It is only duce many things that are not available to because the Government ha.-e been able to the man >Yho has got no job, as was pointed develop a policy, assisted largel;· by the State out by the hon. member for Cook. Even if development tax, of putting thousands of there is some discrimination, it is made in all men back into employment, that those peo]'le other forms of taxation. After all, that dis haYe been ahle to buy the products of crimination must be made. I think that the the primary producer and production has been policy >Ye are pursuing will lmve the support increased. It must be borne in mind that of the electors at the next election, just as the Labour Government of to-day have done it did at the last election, and that an over more to help the producer and the workers of >vhelming majority will return a Labour the State than any other Go,·ernment in Government. 'rhe Minister has every right Australia. to feel justified in bringing fonmrcl this legislation. Hon. members opposite appear to haYe blown themselves out in this debatr. ~When Hon. members opposite have endeaYoured the real test comes at the next election we to make capital out of the fact that only a shall find that not only will the Go.-ernment proportion of the revenue derived from the retain their position, but the rural areas of State development tax is used on certain the State will return a larger majority of projects for the creation of employment. Is country representatives. not the fact that the funcl has been macle :wailable to primary producers in order that lUr. DANIEl, (Keppel) (3.33 p.m.): I rney might be able to install irrigation plants, feel deeply for some of the farmer representa and to cm bark upon other schemes, helping tives on the Government ,side \Ylw have had in the development of the State~ After all, to apologise for the Government in regard if the money is advanced by way of loan to to this development tax. I do not know why some primary producer, does it not lead to the hon. membe;,- for Port. Ctutis said he >vas the provision of further employment in the game enough to. support the J'llinister. He eity m·eas ~ Hon. members opposite are silent. rose to defend hrm, but what ha>·e the other Thev do not want to admit that those hon. mcmbrrs of his party been doing~ It seems men1bers on this side who represent farming that the Government are in a precarious posi rommunities have studied this question and tion '.Hl no doubt they know that this new that the people in the country will welcome forr of taxation will not go down >vith the this measure with open arms after we have f· 111ers of this State. refuted some of the irresponsible statements of the Opposition. )fr. CoHins: The Government had a definite mandate. 'rhe hon. member for Kcppel knows, just well as the hon. member for Cooroora .at !fr. DANIEL: At the last election the the Government have been building mi'"· ancl Govemment neYer told the people of Queens miles of good roac1s in the country areas, land that they would bring in this new development scheme. The people were not and that the producing section of the commun told that the Government would introduce tl1is ity are in consequence enjoying a benefit. He Bill or that thev would do mvay with the knows, too, that the expenditure of moneys unemployment reEef scheme. it was the clcrived from this tax has been the means of CountTy Party who said that the relief scheme reduc.ing the primary producers' costs must go, and the Labour Party haYe ac·ccpted: throughout the State. The figures quoted by the policy of the Country Party. I am 110t the hon. member for Cook are available and going to say that they have done very >Yeli hon. members opposite should read them. Why by doing a\Yay with the unemployment relief is it that production has largely increased in scheme, a·s it was known. Tile;· certainly this State as compared with the volume when took a long while to >vake up to the fact the Moore GoYonunent were in office, and when that it was unpro }Ir. n .\'\IEL: It has been clone as a result schemes as ay~enues of development, and I of pressure put upon the Government by the understand he is particularly intereste Quite ~l Jot of good 1;-onlcl be r1one. The 1Youlr1 c·ome ,,-ithin the group paying 3d. in the cost is the calamity of the whole thing. 'l'he £ l. The object of increasin'" the exemption whole business should be placed on a business is to see th~t they (]erive th~ full benefit of like footing and money collected for a specific the increase in the basic wage an(l that they pmpose· ehould be spent for that purpose. an- not compelled to pay State clcnlopment The whole thing, to my mind, has outli;-erl tax ,,·hen preYiously they did not ha;-e to its day. There is no necessity to continue pny it. Other workers benefit by the increase this form of tax. If one looks back to 1929 in the basic wage, but they are to be pro when it was begun, one would find that the tected, too, so that they will not automaticall:;· percentage· of unemployment was then about pass from the 3r1. in the £1 group to the 6u. 10 per cent. in the £1 gTOU]l. The exemption in respect )Ir. CoUins: Why did you introduce it? of those taxpayers is being inneascr1 so that they will not pay at a higher rate than they Th'Ir. }fiJLLER: As the numbers rose, the did before. need for it became apparent. After all, the .1\loore (;oyernment collecterl only about a lt is almost impossibl-e in the time ~et mv million pounds-- disposal to reply on all the sicle issues that ha;-e been rnised by hon. members opposite The 'freasurer: And had a deficit of during this debate. Let me take one 01: two. £2,000,000! J\Iuch has been said in criticism of the con )Ir. )I'CLLER: They made it up soon tinuance of the tax. Times are better now afterwards, and other people were provider1 than in pTeYious years. That is admitted, for in those times. I am afraid that the tax eYen by the Opposition. Does it not follo>v under this Bill will bC'come pernl'anent, and then that the average taxpayer is better able to that I take strong objection. If the to meet this greatl:· reduced tax than he was J\1inister cannot see his way out of the diffi a few yeaTs ago? TheTe is much development culty the Government are in, 1ve nee(1 not 1YOrk to be rlone in a vast State like Queens look to the present Government to abolish lanc1. Why not do it ,,-hile c·ontlitions are the tnx, ewn if they are in office for another prospcTous as they aTe to-day T The Go,·ern 10 years-and I trust they will not be. On ment haYe a mandate to can-y out a deYelop the contrary, under the present policy it will ment policy and to abolish relief work by thP substitution of a scheme for full-time bC' further inCTeascd. ~W c should give the taxpayers of Queensland a reasonable explana employment. vVe aTe endeavouring to do tion of the need for the continuance of this that with the money from this tax and from form of taxation. other sources. Although I have not been present during In his policy speech the PTemieT said- the last couple of days of the debate, I ha;-e '' It is the GoYernmcnt 's policy to nevertheless read re·ports of the speeches contim!C existing methods of pTOYirling fnll deliverell. 1 have not been able to find any timc elllployment with a Yic1v to extinguish sound reason why the ::\finister shonltl persist ing; relief work entirely. with this form of taxation. He has failed to tell us why he is discriminating between ''Reduction>: of tax ha Ye alrear1;· 1Jecn people, on the basic wage and people in the marlc ::mc1 the exemption llTOYisions have counb·y who are prepared to rear families. been enlarged.'' All these small taxes create a burden, and if the position is examined it 1vill be found He went on to say- that in 1:0nrly every case the additional loa cl '' The Goyernmcnt now propose to is thrown 011 the shoulders of the people in exempt fTom relief taxation all incomes up country districts. That, I say, is the weak to £::!OS per annum. ness of the Bill. That is now increased to £219. The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A'XD INDLS'l'RY (Hon. T. A. Foley, Kormanby) '· -t J reduce bv ~d. in the £1 all gTacles ( 4.4 p.m.), in reply: I do not intend to repl;v of taxation abo~-c that .... '' on the whole of the issues raised during this Thnt has been alrcac1y r1one, but in ::m enclca debate, but I shoul_d like to deal with some of your to emhnr~·n~s the C~nYcrnment hun. nwnl- them for the benefit of the hon. member who bers l1aYe raisecl all kincls of sirle has just resumed his seat. I do not know issues mLreprcseni the actual po'ition. IYhether he has taken the trouble to study this Bill. The Bill we are introducing is one One wry important attempt at misrepre to reduce taxation. It is not a Bill to impose sentation 11·as started by the Leader of the a 11ew tax. At the last election the Govern· Opposition when he referred to the figures ment received a clear mandate from' th-e people that l gaYe to the House dealing 1vith expenc1i to carry on their policy of deYelopment, but tme for relief 11urposcs. His lead was we are reducing taxation to a great mass of followed by many of his colleagues, and I taxpayers who were at one time taxed up sa:' deliberately that it was misrepresentation, to the hilt, as it were, to supply the bulk of otherwise the Leader of the Opposition would the fund. IY e are increasing the exemption ha \"C q uotcc1 other figures. For instance, he by £8. sai(l that in 1938-39 a sum of £509,573 was , Tile SECRETARY FOR L,~BOGH AXD fore, 81 per cent. o:f tlle total n;,m her of INJICS'l'RY: If he maintains that he is a farmers in this State will benefit by the 1eade,· and that he knows something about e-..:emption of £219. 'fhat 81 per cPnt. is figures, wlly does he not c·onsidcr that figure included in a disb·iet that extcncls from in eom1c~tion with the other figures? Stanthorpe to St. La•nence, ant1 from the coast inland to Alpha, Miles, and Dalby. Jir. lial1er: What other figures? That is a ,-cry big area. _u 4.10 p.m., I£ >Ye take the remaining area of the State :1rr. SPEAKER resumed the chair. I do not suppose we shall find 100 or 200 farmers with incomes below £219 :1 vear. 'flHl SECRETAJ~Y }'OR LABOUR A~B \Vhen we go fnrther north, i11to the ::\f~1ckay INDUSTUY: The amount expended . on intermittent relief work must be taken mto district, "lYe- shall probably find that no famwrs consideration. We find that dming the haYe incomes sufficiently low to benefit by this exemption. As a result of the product preYions year £298,327 wa.s spe1~t on rat~on relief mu1 £1,385,2.03 on mternuttent rehcf they are producing, their incomes are high. wOl'k, a total of £1,683,530. I now turn to If we go further northward to '1'mn1sville the vcar that the hon. gentleman refers to. and as far as l\1ossman in what i, known as At the beginning of the last fina:1cial. year the north-eastern district, the exemption the Government resolved to abohsh mter must necessarily be tremendous!~- high to mittcnt relief "\York, but in order to a.vert l11·ing the cane-farmers in these diYisions hardship it ,,-as decided to give eff:'ct to within the ambit of the exemption. \\'hen we that policy gTadually. As a result, uO pel' go further west into the north->Yestern cent. of the iuteTmittent relief woTk of the district and into the south-western district, p1·eYions year was continued and gTadually we enter the pastoral areas, >Yhere the small reduced until it -.ms abandoned altogether at fanner does not exist. In that country you the eml o:f the fimmcial year. Naturally, on hrtYO big pastoralists with big tumo>·ers and account of this policy there >Yas a gradual naturally big incomes. - Teduction in the amount o:f wages paid for ::'\ o reference has been made to the con· intermittent relief work, and a consequential sideraiion that i, given to the small farmer. increase in Tation relief assistance. That T >Yish to emphasise that he is getting his is all that happened. I will giYe the figures. sl;nre of the assistance that is g·iyen to nll'ious In 1938-39, £509,573 was expended in ration classes in the community. (~nite a host of relief and £304,639 on intermittent Telief small tobacco-farmers on small incomes are >rode, making a total of £1,014,212.. This able to apply for and Teceive rations just as figme is a big reduction compared w1th the the unemployed wage-earneT ma;- seek them expenditure of the previous year. As a when he is in difficulties. In that w2,y they Tewlt the Government had a greater amount reap an advantage from the moneys raised of money to carry on their -special scheme through this fund. When a cotton-grower in for full-time employment. Hon. members the Biloela district or a tobacco-grower in c:1nnot have it both ways. The Government the T'exas district requires assistance for the could not abolish inteTmittent relief work and pmpose of putting in his crop, it is given at the same time reduce the expenditure on to him. That being so, there is little ground ration relief until the Co-ordinator-General for the complaint of the Opposition. of Public ·works was in a position to organise public works and thus place a greater number Thev also Teceive a consideTation that is of men in full-time employment. He is not a not eitende(l to other sections in the com mirade worker any more than anv hon. mem munity. Legitimate deductions ~no ;lllowcd ber. It is impossibie for any man ·in charge of by the CommissioneT -of Taxes for money such a scheme to place all the men engaged on expended in earning their incomes. Deduc· intermittent relief >York in full-time employ tions are allowed for money expended in the ment at once. 'l'here must be a transition eradication and extermination of pests, clear 11eriocl. The Co-ordinator-General has done ing, grubbing, snckering, and the destruction i·emarkablo work. At first it was intended of weeds. They even get consideration that ihilt he should inaugurate public >Yorl-e had a map prepared showing the Yarious diYisions of the State for taxation pmposes. A great song was made by the ho1t. member I find that the south-eastern district, >Yhere for Oxley about one poor strnggling fanneT the farmer. worker, and any other person is who had an income of £7ii0 odd. He promise·d exempted from this tax if his income does -and stood up to his promise-to give m'e not exceed £219 per annum, contains 81 per the name of that man. I submitte(l the case cent. of the farmers of this State. There- to the Commissioner of Taxes ancl rcceiYe'd 442 Income, &c., Act Amendment Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions. information on the matter from him. The The Bill is not in any way contentious and fact is that certain allowable dednctions were should pass through the Committee stages given that brought his net income from £75ti with very little discussion. to £307. Although this farmer has a big family, no information was supplied to the :Motion (:'lir. Foley) agreed to. Commissioner of Taxes as to whether the The House adjourned at 4.25 p.m. members of his family helped to earn the income. The Commissioner points out that if he submits information showing that mem bers of his family who assisted him received wages, he will allow him further deductions that may possibly exempt him from tax altogether. He has given him till October to supply that information. lt is quite evident that this man has received a fair deal. lt is also interesting to learn that in respect of the years 1930-31 to 1936-37 he has had remissions of tax amounting to £32 4s. lld. That im1icates h€ has had a good deal from the Commi.