Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
TUESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER 1952
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
Questions. [25 NovEMBER.] Questions. 1451
lUr. GAIR: If I do not receive that courtesy and attention to which I am entitled when I am answering a question, I will cease to answer it. In such circumstances I do not think I am required to do so. Mr. SPEAKER: That is the hon. gentle man's privilege. Mr. GAIR: ''The expansion successfully fostered by the Government will produce a crop of approximately 1,200,000 tons of sugar in a normal year. The Sugar Board is the Crown instrumentality charged with the responsibility of financing, transporting and selling this ~ugar within Australia and overst>as. Prior to 1943, this board had a full-time chairman. Since then the sugar crop has more than trebled in volume and value. New lands have been brought under the plough and mills have an extensi\·e capital programme of increased milling capacity. The Sugar Board is one of the most important Crown instrumentalities and is carrying additional responsibility and work. The Government have already announced their reasons for separating the functions of the two boards. The chair· man will continue to earn and receive his present salary, which will not be paid from Consolidated Revenue, but will be provided out of funds contributed by the sugar industry.''
SLJBSIDY FOR CHILDREN's PLAYGROUND. llir. ALLPASS (Condamine), for JUr. WATSON (Mulgrave). asked the Secre tary for Public Instruction- '' In a case where a person has collected money to equip a children's playgrounfl in a public park, can such person be paid the usual subsidy which is granted for such a purpose~ If not, what procedure must TUESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER, 1952. be followed in order to secure such subsidy~'' Hon. G. H. DEVRIE1S (Gregory) J'vh. SPEAKER (Hon. J. H. Mann, Bris replied- bane) took the chair at 11 a. m. '' No provrs10n is made by this Depart ment for the payment of subsidy on the QUESTIONS. purchase of equipment for children's SALARY OF MR. FORG.~X SMITH. playgrounds in public parks. The hon. member might direct his question to the llir. AIKEN1S (Mundingburra) asked the hon. the Treasurer for consideration.'' Premier- '' J. Is it a fact, as reported in the AGRICULTURAL BANK ADVANCES TO Press, that Mr. l''organ Smith has resigned Ex-SERVICE MEN. from his position >~s chairman of the llir. LLOYD ROBERTS (Whitsunday) Central Cane Prices Board, and that this asked the Treasurer- major portion of his work will in future " In view of the fact that the three years be performed by Mr. Justice Barry~ free of interest and free of redemption '' 2. If so, does the Gove•nment propose period granted to ex-servicemen under the to continue to pay Mr. Forgan Smith his Agricultural Bank Acts, will expire on present full salary for occupying the 31 December next, and in view of the fact sinecure of chairman of the Sugar Board~'' that during the past twelve months very Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane) many applications to the Agricultural Dank, replied- by ex-servicemen. have been refused for various reasons, will the Government give '' These questions indicate a deplorable consideration to extending this free of lack of understanding of the functions of interest and free of redemption period with the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board and a view to assisting further, the many the Queensland Sugar Board.'' ex-servicemen who are desirous of going on lUr. Aikens: That is what you think. the land~'' 1452 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Vote on Account, 1953-1954.
Hon. E. J. WALSH (Bundaberg) l)Ir. NICHOLSON: I now ask the replied- Secretary for Public Works and Housing- '' The Agricultural Bank Acts ';-ere '' In reference :o the news in the 'Red amended in 1945 to provide for a three cliffe Herald' of 13 November that the years' interest and redemption-free period. Rcdcliffe A.L.P. Branch has been advised To 30 June, 1952, a.dvances approved to that fiye more classrooms are to be built at 3,012 eligible ex-service men on land Humpybong State School and to be brought mortgage security totalled £5,119,215. into use at the beginning of 1953, will he During this period an amount of £321,085 kindly inform me whether I am to be was paid by the Treasury to the Agri informed of such decision and, if so. cultural Bank to meet interest charges when~" which would have been payable by ex-ser vice men but for this concession. In Hon. P. J. R. HILTON (Carnarvon} addition, ex-service men also received replied- advances totalling £637,500 under these '' I have not advised the Redcliffe Acts which did not attract the concession. Branch of the A.L.P. that additional To the end of the financial year 1951-1952 classrooms would be built at the Humpy 430 successful selectors obtained advances bong State School. The matter is under under the \Var Service Land Settlement consideration by my Department.'' Acts amounting to £2,137,000. Since that time a further sixteen (16) selectors have PAPERS. taken up their blocks, thirteen (13) in The following paper was laid on the table, the Gowrie Creek (Ingham) area, and are and ordered to be printed:- being assisted to develop their blocks. I Report of the Fish Board for the Year might add that very few rural loans are 1951-1952. now being made under the Commonwealth Re-establishment and Employment Act as The following papers were laid on the the time limit in respect of the lodgment table:- of applications has expired in most cases. Proclamation under the Elections Acts and Only five ( 5) eligible ex-service men The Criminal Code Amendment Act of applied for assistance under this Act 1952 (13 November). during the financial year 1951-1952. Orders in Council under- Finally, I might say that it is not the The Landlord and Tenant Acts, 1948 practice to announce Government policy to 1950 (13 November). in reply to Parliamentary questions.'' The State Development and Public Works Organisation Acts, 1938 to Bo>vEN-CoLLINsvrLLE RoAn. 1951 ( 13 November). lUr. COBURN (Burdekin) asked the Regulations under- Minister for Transport- The Elections Acts, 1915 to 1952 '' 1. Has the survey of the proposed (13 November). road between Bowen and Collinsville been The Fruit and Vegetable Act of 1947 completed~ ( 13 November). '' 2. If so. ''"hich route has been chosen~ S"CPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES, '' 3. When is it expected that construc 1951-1952. tion of the road will be commenced~ '' 4. What is the estimated cost of the Mr. SPEAKER read a message from road?" His Excellency the Governor transmitting the Supplementary Estimates for the year 1951- Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba) 1952. replied- Estimates ordered to be printed, and " 1. Yes, but the plans have not yet been referred to Committee of Supply. examined. '' 2. No decision has yet been reached. VOTE ON ACCOUNT, 1953-1954. '' 3. No indication can be gi~en at the MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR. present time. '' 4. See answer to No. 3.'' Mr. SPEAKER read a message from His Excellency the Governor recommending that the following provision be made on account :t\EW CLASSROOMS, HUMPYBONG SCHOOL. of the services of the year ending 30 June, lUr. NICHOLSO~ (Murrumba): I notice 1954:- Mr. Speaker, that there has been an altera- FJ- __ the Consolidated Revenue Fund of 6on in the wording of this question. I Q~eensland (exclusive of the moneys should like to know the reason for that Etanding to the crerlit of the Loan Fund alteration. Account), the sum of Eleven million five hundred thousand pounds; 1\Ir. SPEAKER: The reason is that I thought it was unnecessary and had nothing From the Trust and Special Funds, the to do with the business of the House. I sum of Seven million pounds; could have disallowed the question as it From the moneys standing to the credit >Yas framed, but rather than take any privi of the Loan Fund Account, the sum of lege away from the hon. member, I ordered Three million pounds. that the question be framed as it is. Message referred to Committee of Supply. Land Tax Acts [25 NOVEMBER.] Amendment Bill. 1453
LAND TAX ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. can say is that it will probably mean about £40,000 to the Budget, and that is a con· INITIATION IN COMMITTEE. siderable sum. Although the 17s. 6d. calcu (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. l<'arrell, lated by the hon. member for Sandgate does Maryborough, in the chair.) not seem much, I remind him that all these seventeen-and-sixpences make a formidable Hon. E. J. W ALSH (Bundaberg sum to Consolidated Revenue. Treasurer) (11.14 a.m.): I move- At the request of the Government, I ha\·e '' That it is desirable that a Bill be intro been examining foT some time the question duced to amend the Land Tax Acts, 1915 of abolishing small assessments. Hon. mem to Hl51, in certain particulaTs.'' beTs will remember that although there was As I outline the pTovisions of the Bill I nothing in the Act authorising it at the think hon. members will be happy to accept· time, assessments were not being issued by them as being worthwhile. They are m the Commissioner for sums amounting to accordance ''ith the Government policy of 2s. 6d. and under. Last year we gave the giving relief in taxation, wherever possible, Commissioner discretion to refrain from to people who can ill afford to bear the issuing assessments for &mounts up to 4s. 2d. burden. I do not intend at this stage to The amendment proposed now is to lift the elaborate a number of the points in con minimum to 10s. That is a step in the nection with the incidence of land tax that right diTection because it could happen, as I could elaborate, having regard to the has been pointed out before, that a good aspects of valuations recently featuTed in the deal more than the revenue collected could Prcs~. Probably I might have something to be expended in collecting these small sums. say in that connection at a later sta ae so It is proposed also to increase the exemp· far as it affects land-tax assessments" and tion on rural lands from £1,700 to £1,900. the relationship between the valuation The maximum exemption will be £1,900, and determineu b;r the ValueT-General, the this figure will decrease to £700 on land o! O>Yncr 's valuatrons and those finally accepted an unimproved value of £2,900. b~- the Commissioner for Land Tax. lUr. Aikens: Will it contain the old The first amendment in the Bill includes provision that it inust be worked by the provision foT the issue of an order in owner? council from year to year in connection >vith the assessment of undeveloped-land tax. Hon. lUr. W ALSH: I think the hon. member members will remember that the assessment of for Munclingburra will concede that the this tax was waived temporarily during the GoveTnment should not allow absPntees and war years because it was thought that it would others to make consicleTable profits out of be unfair to apply it when it was obvious the land without abiding by the conditions that the land-owner could not caTry out the contained in the Act. It is not intended to woTks necessary to develop the land in the repeal the present provision that the land way that he should. It is pToposed to bring must be worked and developed by the owner this tax into operation again, but that does for rural purposes. It must be used for not necessarily mean that the tax will be dairying, agriculture, or some similaT Tural assessed on undeveloped land this year. It purpose. merely means that the Governor in Council I might point out that the effect ?f t~e may issue an order in council at anv time minimum amount of tax of 10s. will, m giving the Commissioner power to ·assess effect, provide for an exemption of not £700 tax as now provided for in the Act. but actually £820. A furtheT provision increases the exemf!tion Considering the concessions that will be on residential areas from £500 to £700. granted I think it will be conceded that the lUr. Luckins: The papers were £100 Government have gone a long way in trying out. They said £800. to ease the incidence of land taxation. I do not think there is anything moTe I can add lUr. W ALSH: Hon. members opposite at this stage. cannot blame me if they give the papers wrong lUr. Hiley: Will it operate this year? information. I am surprised that some of them did not quote a possible exemption Mr. W ALSH: Immediately. of £1,500, but, having regard to the fact llir. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader that this exemption was increased from £300 of the Opposition) (11.21 a.m.): It is very to £500 last year and that it is now inteTesting to note that in the measure the proposed to lift it still further to £700, I hon. gentleman is introducing this morning, think it will be conceded that a substantial the Government once again have adopted a increase has been made. It will relieve a suggestion put forward by the Opposition. very considerable numbeT of home-owners of The Minister will remember that he very land tax that would have been payable other enthusiastically rejected an amendment pro wise as a result of the new determination posed by the Opposition last year that the of values in recent years. exemption on residential property should be lUr. Deck er: 17s. 6d. a year. raised to £750. Mr. W ALSH: That might not seem 1\Ir. Walsh: You did not know where much to the hon. member. If it means only you were going at the time you moved it. 17s. 6d. a year, I cannot understand his llir. NICKLIN: It is very apparent that advocating increasing the exemption. All I we knew what would be the effect of the 1454 Land Tax Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.
valuations, because the Government have been It would have been much wiser if the compelled to introduce these amendments Government had tackled the problem not by today. increasing the exemptions under the law but lUr. Walsh: You knew more than the by stabilising the position by introducing Commissioner of Land Tax. legislation providing for a percentage reduction in valuations already made by llir. NICKLIN: I do not know about the Yaluer-Geneml. That would have been that; I do not know what the Commissioner the fairest and best way of tackling the knew, but I think we knew more about it problem. However, for political reasons the than the Treasurer knew. This is not the Government propose to increase the first occasion on which amendments moved exemptions from £500 to £700 on residential by the Opposition and rejected by the areas and from £1,700 to £1,900 on rural Goyernm~nt1 have been incorporated in legis lands. According to the Treasurer, this latwn With111 a very short time. However, will mean a loss of much revenue to tne I venture t~ suggest that the reason ·why the Government but I suggest that it will not Treasurer did not make the amount £750 was amount to a great deal because not a great that it was the figure quoted in our amend number of holders of residential blocks will ment. Re made it a sum a little bit under be affected by the increase from £500 to what we suggested, £700. £700. Hmvevcr, I shall examine that aspect The hon. gentleman said also that the of the matter on another stage of the Bill, lifting of the minimum tax from 4s. 2d. to especially to point out the unfair discrim 10s. will, in effect, be an exemption of £820 ination that is being made against rural but may I remind him that the Commissione; lands. As I said before, this measure is may only_ refrain from levying this tax; it something that we can expect from a Gov Is not wntten into the Bill. ernment who at all times are discriminating against rural land-holders and rural dwellers. llir. Walsll: I have already said that It is a discretionary power. · ~Ir. Foley: Anything they have got they have got from Labour Governments. Mr. NICKLIN: It is just as well to emphasise the point. Mr. NICKLIN: Everything they have got was the result of hard work on their :lUr. Walsh: You can take it out if you part and not because of any sympathetic like. consideration by Labour Governments. As a matter of fact, Labour legislation has l\Ir•. NICKLIN: It is well to emphasise taken from them much of their hard-earned the pomt, wh~n. we know how things are dis income that they should have been allowed torted_ for political purposes by hon. members to retain. It has been taken from them in opposite. However, as the Treasurer has the form of exorbitant rents and other said, ~t _is questionable whether it pays the Government charges imposed from time to Commisswner to collect payments round about time. 10s. because of the cost of issuing an assess ment and collecting the money. It is not A very interesting feature of this legis economical to collect these ''few bobs'' as lation is the issue of an order in council the G?vernment have been doing for many from year to year relating to assessments years m o~her ways. Fortunately they have on undeveloped land, but that is simply a seen the light of day and have removed a red herring drawn across the trail in an nurr:ber of these exemptions, which we:-e endeavour to introduce into the minds of costmg more to collect than the Government many home-owners the belief that land tax actually got in revenue as a result. is required to compel people to develop undeveloped land. How many people are In the proposed amendment we once again there in the State who would have to be find the unfair. discrimination against rural subjected to pressure of this kind to be lands because If the amount of exemption induced to subdivide their lands for sale~ on rural land was increased in the same I should &ay that there would be very few proportion as the exemption on residential of them. The Treamrer is continually intro land, the amount would not be £1,900 as the ducing legislation to prove that he is justi Treasurer proposes, but somewhere in the fied in the retention of this very unfair tax Yicinicy of £4,000. on the land but one minute he savs that Here again is another example of the trend the greatest incidence of this taxation falls of Government policy-this is legislation that on Queen Street and the next minute he is to the detriment of the man on the says that there will be power to is~ue an l_and. I should say that the reason for its order in council from year to year to deal mtroduction lies in the fact that there has with the undeveloped land in the State. been a tremendous upheaval amongst Nobody can tell me that an extraordinary property-owners because of the extraordinary rate of land tax must be imposed on any valu~s that have been placed on their pro undeveloped land in Queen Street in order perties recently, and for political reasons to bring about its development. the Government had to do something about Are you against the taxing ~! in order. to get out of the mess they find ltlr. Walsli: of nndevelopPd land~ cnems~l ves 111 as a re~ult of the extraordinary valuatwns not only 111 the city of Brisbane llir. NICKLIN: I am not against the but throughout the length and breadth of taxing of undeveloped land. I am in favour the State where the Valuer-General has of ensuring that all land is used to its fullest operated. capacity, but I am against the incidence of Land Tax Acts [25 NovEMBER.] Amendment Bill. 1455
land taxation. I believe it should be pro The measure is a very fine one and the gressively reduced with a view to its eventual Leader of the Opposition, instead of ende~>' elimination, in the same way as the Common ouring to cry it down, should give full credlt wealth Government have eliminated it. The to the Treasurer for the action he contem Treasurer will not reduce any taxation if he plates. can possibly avoid it. It is only a sham to say that he is going to give any great relief lUr. HILEY (Coorparoo) (11.34 a.m.): to any residential landholders or rural land Twelve months ago, when we examined the holders. He complains that he will possibly esLimate of receipts from la:nd tax, our lose £80,000 annually as a result. assessment was that the then level of adjust ments would not narrow the field of taxation JUr. W alsh: I never said anything of and that it would lead to the taxation of an the sort. You will misquote. infinitely wider field. The only conclusion to be drawn from the amended level, suggested ~Ir. NICKLIN: I am sorry, and I thank in this Bill is that the Treasurer is moving the hon. gentleman for his correction-he will along the lines of our suggestion. On the lose £40,000 revenue as a result. He will lose question of undeveloped land tax, there is no nothing near that amount of money, for we possible disagreement in principle that there shall find as a result of the extraordinary rise should be a deterrent tax on undeveloped in valuations and the bringing into the field land. That is the only sensible way in which of land taxation so many residential lands, land tax can play the part it is designed to and additional rural landholders that the play in adjusting idle or undeveloped land. State's revenue will not suffer. In fact it is holdings. possible that the revenue from this source The Treasurer's Statement shows that iu will be at a higher level than that reached 1941, land tax realised just a little onlr last year. £10,000, from undeveloped land tax. When the Bill is circulated, we will examine If the rates he proposes are imposed, its details and analyse its implications on the accepting the fact that values have moved second reading. upwards, it still is a trifling approach to the problem in comparison with the land tax that ~Ir. LARCOitiBE (Rockhampton) (11.32 is drawn from developed land. a.m.): I want to express my appreciation of the Bill the Treasurer has foreshadowed. I suggest to the Treasurer that serious He is responsible for a previous taxation thought should be given to the question relieving measure this session, namely, the whether it would not be wiser to do what Succession and Probate Duties Acts Amend the Leader of the Opposition suggests, take ment Bill, which reduced taxation; now he up the exemptions, particularly on country has brought down another taxation-reduction lands where the holder has not an excessive measure. When one considers the financially land area, so that you do not tax him, but embarrassed position of the Government and hit the man with undeveloped land with a the very difficult task the Treasurer is heavier tax. That would be a much more having, this measure is especially commend intelligent approach to the question. Why able, and I am sure it will be well received should we tax a dairyman who is carrying throughout the State, notwithstanding the on with a minimum area~ It may be a case very churlish receptitm it received from the where the land is cut up into agricultural Leader of the Opposition. farms of 320 acres, the titles have been freeholded, and the man may easily, under The hon. gentleman referred to the amend the faintly increased exemption, be liable to ment he moved some time ago, that the pay land tax. He has not one acre of exemption should be £750. I would remind surplus land, yet you will tax him. We him that in 1929 the anti-Labour Party went should take his exemption high enough to to the country and not only advocated high relieve him and apply a deterrent rate of exemptions but promised definitely and faith tax to the man who has undeveloped land. fully to repeal the Land Tax Acts. They I suggest that would be a much better did not do so, for approximately £1,000,000 approach to this very real problem of the was collected from this source of taxation in continued holding of undeveloped land. That the three years when they were a Govern is all something we want to overcome and ment. This party today by speech suggests remove from the land tenures of this State. that it is in favour of high exemptions and Twopence in the £1 tax will not seriously very much reduced taxation, but if we agitate a person and make him shift from compare their attitude and actions with their the position of holding the land idle and speeches we find a gulf of contrast between bring it into use. It is not steep enough. the two. I hope the Treasurer, when he is having a further look at the question, will examine Today the Labour Government are doing the general policy of undeveloped-land tax something that the anti-Labour Party pro and sav whether that should not be a much mised many years ago to do but failed miser harder· approach. It would leave the Trea ably to do. Further, when one bears in mind sury probably much as it was if you took that the Federal anti-Labour Government the exemption of the country lands higher collected £990,000,000 in taxation last year, than £1900. When you look at the exemp and: an aggregate increase of £600,000,000 tion on State residential land, you will find in two years, one can see the great contrast that when it was £300 the country exemption between the Federal and State Governments was £1500. It was recognised that a man in regard to taxation. needs land of a much greater value in order 1456 Land Tax Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. to comluct the business of dairyman or ~Ir. HILEY: That might be so, but farmer than is necessary for a block of frankly I have no evidence to submit t<'l the land on which to build a dwelling. When Committee that would lead hon. members to the Jhst adjustment was made the £300 suspect that the same pri:1ci~le would have beca11.:e £500 and the £1500 was increased an entirely different apphca~wn now. That by only 15 per cent; it went to £1700. is something on which we might hav~ sm_ne evidence from the Treasurer as nmnstenal Mr. Burrows: There is still £1200 head of the department. differenee. That is the main point. I do not think Mr. HILEY: Exactly. The monetary land tax was ever intended to be a tax tor margin was preserved when the Treasurer the use of land. It was intended to be a was bringing in the exemption recognising discomaging factor in the excessive owneT monetary values had almost doubled, but the ship of land. Do not tell me that a .mll:n value of the money margin was almost who has a fair living area, whether 1t 1s halved. freehold or leasehold, should ever be singled out for a discriminatory tax that relates ~Ir. Burrows: Have you any evidence purely to the use of land. Land tax was to show the increases in values in the city never designed for that purpose.. Counc1l are less than in the country or vice versa~ rates are a use tax. Income tax 1s a use tax, but the land tax was never designed a~ Mr. HILEY: It would be unlikely that a tax on ownership nrerely for _the use of they would follow an exactly proportionate the land. Land tax was really mtended to trend, but the movement I suggest would break up large estates and so long as !an~ be much nearer equality than this because tax is used only for tha~ p_urpos_e I supp?rt here there is a wide gap. The Treasurer the land tax, provided rt 1s farrly applied has taken up country lands and city lands for that purpose. Once land tax becomes a by the same amount, but in nothing like tax on the use of the land in the han~s ~f the same proportion. The Treasurer takes a man who has no excessive ~re~, 1t. 1S £300 to £500, then to £700 a 40 per wrong. It lacks all logical Justification. cent. increase, and he takes ~ountry land That is the way we, as sensible people, trom £1500 to £1700, then to £19.00, an mcrease by 11 or 12 per cent. Whilst I can should look at it. not pretend to offer any evidence as to the These are the two submissions I make to relative movement in values between city and the Treasurer on this matter. On th: ques country lands, I am certain the variation in tion of quantum, the effective exemptiOn for movement is nothing like so wide as the city residential land is up to £82?, and movement the Treasurer's figures suggest. assuming that the Commissioner does m . fa ~t If there was the faintest logic in the jump carry out the £pirit of the Treasur~r 's mdi from £300 to £700, roughly just over 2 to cation, that exemption is a very farr exemp ~-and I think there is a great deal-there tion. Quite plainly, I should have been con IS no comparable degree of logic in the tent had it stopped at the level suggested ~:novem~mt from £1,500 to only £1,900, which last year, £750. I then expressed my :Iews 1S an mcrease of just over 25 per cent. or in detail. It is quite wrong to ask a re.sident 2H per cent. I seriously suggest to the in a Brisbane suburb or any oth~r c1ty to Treasurer that it would be far wiser to look pay land tax for living on an ordmary sub at this exemption of country land, move it divisional block. I then made the plea that up a bit higher, and seek to impose a really we should not be too hard o:r; the man :vho, deterrent tax on the holders of undeveloped for personal healthful recreatiOn, has a little land. It was only last week that we had bit extra land on which he gardens or gr_ows ~he Secretary for Public Lands telling us trees. This brings an arboreal character 1nto m terms that brooked no contradiction of our suburbs and we do not want suburbs to the growing land hunger that exists in this look like tenements. If we do that, we shall State and the desire of people to settle on simply destroy the well-timbered character the land. That is a perfectly unchallengable of our Queensland suburbs. One of th_e gr~at argument when dealing with leaseholds, and joys of looking at Queensland's res1de_n~1al do no~ tell me that that has no parallel suburbs generally is the to~e.rable hvmg when 1t _comes to freeholds. If there is any area and the quite good provrsron of trees. substantial area of freehold land in this This in turn means that the birds, flowers, State that the owners are pen;isting in not lawns and trees are a living part of the using, it is clearly in the public interest people. Let us hope that :ve c_an p:ese_rve . that those owners should be subjected to that character in our res1dentwl di_stncts every form of persuasion in our power to for centuries to come. If land tax IS too force them to bring the land into use or sell steep in its application '.ve. shall fo:ce t_he it. people to go back to mmm1um residenb~l areas and as extra houses are squeezed Ill 1\Ir. Walsh: A very sensible approach. the trees have to go, the proportion of garden space is set back, . the area. of our Mr. HILEY: I am sure the hon. gentle lawns is reduced and that 1s somethmg that man will agree with me. On the Treasurer's I, for one, should not like to see at any own figures, when undeveloped land tax was only 2d. in the £1, the revenue was some cost. thing like £11,500. Mr. Aikens: We shall have houses like those in the older suburbs-window to 1\Ir. Burrows: That was due to the window and so close that your neighbours generosity of the interpretat.i.on. can hear you changing your mind. Land Tax Acts [25 NOVEMBER.] Amendment Bill. 1457
I\Ir. HILEY: That is what we want to that man's capital resources, because pro avoid. Let us preserve what I believe is in duction has not been high enough to cover fact a traditional but also an essential part it. of the Queensland domestic outlook. We I repeat that the Opposition are delighted do not want to have areas that are too to learn that in the short period of 12 months large, because they in turn produce their the Minister has seen the general wisdom of problems when it comes to giving services what we tried with all the arguments in our to the people who live in our towns, but let power to convince him was the correct thing us see to it that our land -tax policy does to do. vVe do not think now that he has not force the people to have areas that are been niggardly in regard to city properties too small. but I ask him to give serious thought to 1dmt I have no quarrel at all with what the I think is a lack of comparable justice to the Treasurer is doing now for the residential men on country areas, ancl I ask him also to land. I think he is being quite generous, look at the question of tax on undeveloped but I do not think he is being either logical land and ask himself whether a small tax pro or fair in connection with country lands. I ducing £10,000 a year is m1oquate for the suggest that he look at the real purpose of purpose we lun·e in mind. land tax and ask himself whether it is not lllr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (11.51 true that land tax was intended not as a a m.) : Personally I think that land tax is a tax on the proper use of minimum land hold Yerv useful form of taxation inasmuch as ings but as a means of breaking up the it i~ a deterrent against inflated land value&, larger holdings, to discourage the excessive and whilst I do not claim to be a student of holding of land by any particular individual. economics I know what has taken place in I do not object to his taxing excessive hold history. Away back in the 80's and 90's this ings as much as he likes, but when a person country, particularly Victoria, suffered holds only enou;;h land to enable him to severely as a result of land booms, when !a.nd carry on efficiently the business in which he was hawked and sold throughout the Bnb~h is engaged, whether he is a grazier, dairy Empire. I know of properties in the Glad man, or agriculturist, do not tax him purely stone district that were sold many years ago because of that fact, because the areas he to people in England and today they would holds are only what he needs for the not be worth 10s. or J 5s. an acre, if that. successful carrying on of his business. Those were the clays when there was no land tax. I think this tax serves a very useful I\Ir. Walsh: What would you do with the man who sells his land at five times its purpose in that direction. However, its valueW greatest value is in its tendency to pre...-ent gambling in land and the speculation in land J.Ur. HILEY: I cannot see the analogy -the holding of land for speculative pur there, but let us suppose that in fact a block poses only. In my electorate there are some of land is held by a farmer, that it is fairly substantial freehold areas that were as worked fully and so efficiently that it attracts undeveloped when I was a boy as they are a high price. Why does that qualify that today. In my opinion there should be pro farmer to pay taxW He is using everv acre vision in the Act to ensure development and has no excessive area. Why should the because the mere ringbarking of timber on Treasurer come in and say, ''I want to tax bnd and the putting up of fences is not suf the use of that land simply becau~e some ficient. Quite a lot of land in Queensland body has paid a high price for it W'' The is held by people for grazing and this land thing the Treasurer should tremble about is might be put to better use if it was sub our reaching the stage in our farmino- com divicler1', put under cultivation, nnd used for munity at which country lands hav;' little intensive cropping. The .Tondaryan land pro or no value. Yides PS with nn example in winch the owner 1ccognised that he har1 a moral duty to cut ]}fr. Aikens: The land tax was imposed the land up; he proYecl t~a.t he took an Aus primarily to force the owner to put his land tralian view of the pos1hon and was not into production. inspired by what he-- lUr. HILEY: Exactly, and if a man has Thir. Walsll: The late Mr. Kent? no more land than he can use and is using I\Ir. BURROWS: Yes. I submit that it efficiently, it is logically wrong to single men such as he should receive full credit for him out ancl require him to pay tax simply what they did'. They may have made money because he has productive land that attracts cut of tlie land but by holding it they might a high price. If he is using the land effici have made more. · ently and producing a great deal of revenue from it, income tax should take the appro Thir. Walsh: How much did he sell it priate share of what he earns. That is the for~ £4 10s., and it is now selling at £25 or purpose of a tax related to the use of lancl, £30. and income tax is related to the use of land when it comes to production. If the Treas ]}fr. BURROWS: So far as that aspect urer stops to consider what happens if that is concerned land tax is essential but I nm man pays too high a price for the land and personally of the opinion tlJat the r~te of tax has a year in which· that land does not should varv. This may affect qmte a few produce well, he will realise that the land landholders but a man ·who neglects his land tax levied by the Treasurer is in that case should pay the maximum rate. If a man is a tax on that man's capital. It is not a tax making good use of his land he should get a on the production of land; it is a tax on discount. I think the principle could be put 1458 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. into operation by assessing, say, double tllP This sum represents an increase of £9,147 rate intended to be collected, but on the over the provision for 1951-1952, and of pro(:uetion of a certificate from the Crown £6,467 over the amount expended in that year. land ranger for the district that certain The increase is due, to basic-wage rises dur improwments had been effected, such as the ing 1951-1953, and to the general increase m de
real look at the problem and consider where under the shadow of the putrid and paralysing the new methods of treatment can best be hand of Sir Raphael Cilento because these carried out. I am not convinced that there unfortunate people at Peel Island were is not room for much greater courage in the treated little better than blacks were being approach to it. I am far from convinced treated. An ageing doctor went over from that Burpengary, and not necessarily Burpen Dunwich to Peel Island, I think only once g:uy, is the best site. I have nothing in a month. There was a lovely matron there, particular against Burpengary except the but unfortunately she was too old and palsied m•J3quitoes, and if that proble1i1 is resolutely to do the JOb. I am not criticising her in handled it can be o,·ercome. There are acres any respect, when I say that. To my aston and acres of tea-tree scrub there that breed ishment, I found that with the exception of mosquitoes in bucketfuls. All I can say is that I one or two who were in the last stages of have fished too often close to there to have any the disease in the hospital, I could not tell a thing other than the healthiest respect for leper from an ordinary person. There was the mosquito-breeding capacity of that clis none of these loathsome e,ores or ears drop-, trict. It will not be a comfortable place ping off, none of the fingers or toes for either the staff or patients, unless extra dropping off. They were just average-looking ordinary pains are taken first of all in the people and they were just as healthy-looking designing of a special building and secondly Hntl rertainly just as iHtelligent as I or any in carrying out a great deal of expe.usive other m··mber of the group who went. work to eradicate the mosquitoes. I doubt whether, taking both resident staff and I found also to my astonishment that patients, more than 200 people would be segre;:,ation 1YU3 purely and simply a hollow affected and I should imagine that for a sham and mockery b~cause the staff at Peel peak of 200 people the cost involved in Island came back to town every week-end, dealing with the mosquito problem there or en'ry second IYeek-end, as the case may would be out of all reason. I suggest that be-mingled 1vith the lepers at Peel Island the Minister look at the problem again and all the week, fortnight or month as the case see whether it is possible to spend the money may be, and then came back to town to the bosoms of their families and into bars and more wisely and to better advantage in other ways. cafes, drinking out of the same glasses and eating out of the ~ame utensils as everyone l\Ir. AIKEN,S {Mundingburra) (12.16 else. I found, too, further sham and p.m.) : I am particularly pleased to know hypocrisy with regard to the department's that hon. members of this Parliament and treatment of lepers, in that I discovered that members of the public are beginning to adopt lepers came regularly from Peel Island for the sentiments I expressed in this Chamber snecial medical or dental attention and went a'1 far back as 1944 or 1945. I repeat on i1;to the General Hospital and lay there with this vote much of what I said the other night other patients. I myself have Yisited a resi in connection "ith mental institutions and dent of Peel Island whilst he was in the the public outlook towards mental diseases. Brisbane General Hospital. When I came into this Chamber I had a I then sta rtecl to read up this question horrible co,;ception of leprosy and lepers, of leprosy and rliscoverecl, again to my pleased mainly gatherer] from sensational stories of astonishment, that the greatest authority on L·pers and of how it was only necessary to leprosy in the world-and I think the hon. touch a leper to become infected with that member for Yeronga IYill agree with me on dread disease. in 1Yhich one's fingers, toes this point-is an Australian, Dr. Molesworth. and ears would fall off, when one's eyes would I read his works and the works of other fall out, when all these horrible things would doctors of national reputation on the subject happen. So that when I came to Parliament of leprosy and I found that to a man the. first I went to Goodna and later to Peel violently opposed any segregation whatso Island, and, strangely enough, although I ever, and their reasons are very sound. invited a number of members of Parliament to ace,ompany me to Peel Island, it was 1 am certain that the Minister has given shocking to see the reluctance and to hear this aspect of the matter some considera the excuses of those \Yho did not wish to go. tion. If a person finds that he has contracted leprosy-and it sometimes takes years for the ]\Jr. Low: You did not like going disease to develop-he knows that the moment yourself. he reports that he has contracted leprosy and the moment he goes to a doctor and the doctor Mr. AIK.ENS: I admit I did not like reports that the patient has leprosy, he will going myself, but I forced myself to go be grabbed like a wild beast and transported because I was determined to see for myself to Peel Island:. Consequently segregation the conditions under which these unfortunate defeats its own object because the very essence people lived and because I was determined to of the cure of leprosy-as it is the ver;v see for myself what a leper looked like. So essence of the cure of mental illness or any tbt at least I had the courage and guts to other complaint-lies in the fact that to be go, and that was more than many hon. mem completely curable it should be met in its hc-rs had at that time. Finally, about six or early stages. Consequently, because people se>·.•n of us, what I might term a mixed fear segregation and fear being grabbed like group, went, and when I got there I found wild beasts and sent to Peel Island they fail tfwt so far as the treatment of and attitude to go to a doctor so that the doctor can towards the lepers was concerned the Depart report that they ha,-e contracted leprosy. The:; ment of Health and Home Affairs was still '' a it until it is too late. Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1461
The hon. member for Coorparoo gave as waiting on your table?'' The other man usual a well-reasoned speech on this subject. said, ''Yes, I will have a leper waiting on I am not a very old man-at least I like my my table if you will have a syphilitic wait friends to tell me so-- ing on yours. '' People infected with lUr. Brown: You look it. syphilis are allowed to wander free in the community, and it is a highly communicable Mr. AIKENS: If I look old it is because and contagious disease. Those with T.B., of the scars I have received and the crosses too, are allowed to wander within the com I have carried in my service to the people. munity; in fact, those with incurable T.B. are turned loose and fobbed off without a I can remember, as a boy in Charters T.B. pension, such is the generosity and the Towers, joining a crowd and going down to the railway station to see two lovely girls humanity of the present Federal Government. being taken away to the lazaret. Mr. Turner, All those people with highly contagious tl1ey were in the end of a K wagon-a cattle diseases are not segregated, yet our lepers, wagon-and at the other end of the K wagon who suffer from the least contagious of all with a tarpaulin over the end of it was a the communicable diseases, are segregated. policeman who smelt like a hospital drain There are two doctors in the Chamber beca1.1s~ he had teen sprayed alild rubbed with of couTse, whether they know anything about every drsmfectant that could be found. The leprosy is problematical-but I say it is K wJ.gon was roped off iR the middle. These harder to eontTact lepTosy from another two lovely g•~·ls were being takr"n away in an person than it is to contTact any other com opm1 K wagon hom Charters Towers. That municable disease. As a matter of fact, some was the attitude to lepro.;y then and unfor specialists in leprosy have made incisions in tunately, with the exception apparently of their arms and other parts of theiT bodies some members of this Chamber, it appears the and have inserted pieces of lepTons flesh and attitude towards leprosy has not changed very 8CWn them up, yet even then they could not much since. contract leprosy. That shows just how I hope that Burpengary is never built and difficult it is to contract leprosy. that Peel Island, with all its putrid, unfortu I also make a plea to the Minister in nate and unforgettable associations, is respect of people who aTe discharged from destroyed. I hope that the Government will, Peel Island. Before a person is discharged in the near future-tomorrow if I can con from Peel Island he must submit himself to vinee them of the necessity-follow the advice having monthly smears taken. Those smears of the people who can talk on the subject are sent to a pathologist. I am not sure of of leprosy with authority. Let us end segre the number now, but at one time he had to gation once and for all; let the people see have 15 smears and thus could not be the lepers and then they will know that they released in under 15 months. He had to have have nothing to fear 15 monthly negative smears in succession. If And here is another aspect of the matter. he got 14 negative in a row and then one The British Empire Leprosy Relief Associa positive, he had to get another 15 negative tion, the biggest association of its kind in the in a row before he could be released. In world', has founrl that the mental effect or the New South Wales it is necessary to have psychological effect of the release of the leper only nine monthly smears. I ·want the has a considerable effeet on the ultimate cure Minister to understand that I am not speak of leprosy. We :find ourselves in this so-cal!ec1 ing in . a critical mood now, because it is ciYilised State of Queensland keeping our possible that since I made inquiries they unfortunate white lepers on Peel IRland a1vav might have reduced the number of regular f1 om tile people when the British Parliament monthly negative smears. Once these people and the British Government are releasing are released they have to report back to the blaek lepers within the British Empire. Thev Government Medical Officer for a time and are turning <>V£n the black lepers loose, and have these smears taken. Then, for the rest ilwy :finc1 that ome the leper ,yets out of the of their lives-and this is the shocking part ~egregation compound and is able to get back -they must have smears taken periodically. to l1ir· v:'~age nnd cnltivnte a little bit of I did not know how shocking it was and how land and grow some fresh vegetablE's for him much personal tragedy it could cause until 'elf, the nsychological effect is doing as much I struck the case in my own electorate of a tiJ cure him as the various medicines and injec woman who was discharged fTom the lepro tions th~t he is getting from the doctoTs In sarium years and years ago. She has reared t 1oe name of humanitv and orc1inarv common a family since, yet every year that unfortu eense ~mc1 decency, let us fTee our lepers and nate woman, until I made personal repre free them now! sentations on her behalf, had to have a One of the :first speeches I made in my smear taken to see whether lepTosy was again serirs of famous Rrgent speeches was on apparent. You can imagine her dread, her lenrosy. and in it I urged the people to join mental anguish for two or three months as with me in saving the lepers in this State. the date for her visit to the medical officer The storv is tolcl of a doctor who knew approached. She has been so long discharged, nothing about leprOSY-One Of the old-time so completely cured, that the authorities have horse-anc1-buggy medical practitioners, one now ceased sending her up to the doctor. of the blood-letters, one of the witch-doctor I honestly appeal to the Minister to end mumbo-jumbo class of doctors, such as those the mental anguish of these unfortunate who control the B.M.A. in Oueensland-who people >Yho obtain their discharge from Peel went up to one of the men of the Molesworth Island as cured and after a reasonable time stamp and said, "Would you have a leper do not require them to go near a medical 1462 Supply. (ASSEMBLY.] Supply.
ullicer at all to have these smears taken. I welfare of the patients or the staff. I also am satisfied that if a person comes away said on a previous occasion that a very from the institution cured he or she would eminent leperologist, Dr. James Ross Innes, go back again for medical treatment of his of Africa, had said that an inland-upland dry or her volition as soon as the disease mani climate was necessary for the welfare of suf fe3ted itself again. Do not require them to ferers from Hansen's disease, and that was rc:port for medical examination over a long one reason why I opposed the site at pericd. Relieve them of this mental anguish Burpengary. ~m,-l mental suspense. Do not require them to 'l'ne other reason >~·hy I opposed it ,,-as the suffer in this \\-ay all through their lives until tremenccous expense that ,,-ould be involved in they die, just because once they had leprosy. establishing the hospital there, together with What a shocking -commentary that is on our the cost of road-making and in finding water, so-called civilisation! v hieh the :\Iinistcr cannot deny still proves That is the only appeal I have to make. a vroblem. Several bores have been sunk, Let us do something about leprosy. Let us l;ut the only water found has been unfit for free the lepers. Do not insist on segrega hunwn consumption. As far as I can see, tion. Let us free them so that they can the latest approach to the problem of a water mingle with the other people in the com svpply is to dam Burpengary Creek. It is munity, as they do in Great Britain. There unfortunate that its waters will haYe a is no such thing as segregation of lepers in brackish taste for 2 years, because of the Great Britain. There is no segregation of quagmires that surround it, and the mangrov c lep•:rs in the great majority of European swamps. that being the period for which the countries. There is no segregation of lepers taste of mangroves is detectable in water. in most of the States of the United States All the>ie factors should be thoTough!y investi of America. There is no segregation of lepers gated before any money is spent on establish in most of the civilised countries of the world. inrr the institution on that site, and further There is segregation of 1epers only in A us re;e:Jrch on water supplies is warranted before tralia and a few other countries that are r.n~· kospital is established there. I. say this backward in this respect. not only for the protection of pubhc funds, but for the protection and health of the lUr. JUoore: There is segregation in inmates of Peel Island. America. The approach made by the department to lUr. AIKENS: Not in many of the the cure of Hansen's -disease has undoubtedly States. Mauv of tlw Statrs have their own had a very desirable effect, not only on the State laws oi1 the ~uhject and in many of patients but the public as well. I will go them there is no segregation. so far as to say that drug therapy as prac tised at Peel Island is second to none in the 3Ir. JUoore: I must ~eg your pardon. world. I have that statement from eminent lUr. AIKEN18: Some of the States in authorities and it is very pleasing to know America do segregate the lepers and they have that. I have stated previously that other some very fine leprosariums but many of the forms of therapy must be given in con States do not segregate them, or that was mv junction with that treatment, which in information about them some years ago. Let itself it is not sufficient. I have stressed us tell the people that this is the least con that point previously, it is desirable that tagious of all the communicable diseases. If manual therapy and physiotherapy should be the Government are not prepared to release introduced on Peel Island. I know that the lepers at least let us relieve them of this the Minist<"r and the Government have thctt mental strain and mental anguish after they in view, but the statement is invariably made have been released. that when the hospital is established on the mainland all those amenities will be avail lUr. NICHOLSON (Murrumba) (12.32 able. That is the cry, "Wait until we get p.m.l : I could not allow this vote to pass onto the mainland.'' Two and a-half years without making some comment about the have elapsed since it was announced that unfortunate sufferers from Hansen's disease. the inmates on Peel Island would be removed I am very pleased that two other hon. mem to the mainland and the promise was given bers have risen in their places today to that a hospital would be established on the support what I have been saying about them mainland within 12 months of that announce ever since I came into Parliament. I have ment. I realise the many difficulties in mov spoken about the establishment of the institu ing the present inmates of Peel Island, but I tion at Burpengarv, I have spoken about the am in agreement with the hon. member for segregation of lepers and of many other Mundingburra that the time has arrived undesirable things associated with the disease. when the Government, or the department, Not until recently have I had any support in and the people as well, should have a this Chamber. I always have known that different approach to Hansen's disease. hon. members on this side of the Chamber Segregation, no matter where it is, is having were interested in these sufferers and, to give an undesirable effect on complete cure. I credit where credit is due, I know that the have already spoken of the J;larole system, hon. member for Mundingburra has always which is limited to six years, in which period had the interests of these people at heart. 'rhe a sufferer must have six clear smears. hon. member for Coorparoo, in his comments today, was really repeating what I said: in this Another point worthy of consideration is Chamber before, that the site at Burpenga.ry, that once a patient is discharged from Peel a low-lying, mosquito-infested mangrove Island the dependant allowance ceases. It swamp area, would not be beneficial to the must be borne in mind that even when a Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1463
patient is discharged from Peel Island he, seen walking along the street, would not be perhaps hecause of malformity or the fact suspected by the average person as being that he cannot get a job because he has come sufferers of Hansen's disease, although, of from Peel Island; perhaps because in many course, there may be a skin blotch or some instances he is not fit to work, and is not in a thing of that sort. position to support either his dependants or Unfortunately these people have ver;y- little relatives. The.refore he immediately becomes to occupy their minds apart from rad10 sets, dependent on those who have been dependent fishing, a library, and a tennis court. The on the allowances. last is not altogether desirable because they It is an unfortunate state of affairs and cannot endure a great deal of fatigue whe-n one that requires a great deal more con undergoing treatment. Some of the patients sideration than has been given to it. Such do handicrafts, examples of which have been people do get an invalid pension, but that exhibited at arts exhibitions and at the Royal is from the Commonwealth Government. As Kational Show in Brisbane. There was no I said before, in view of the fact that they thought that these articles would contaminate have been so dependent on the allowance the public, and rightly so. That should always some consideration should be given by the be the approach to this disease. State Government to supplementing the Com I take this opportunity of again paying monwealth invalid pension. tribute to the resident medical officer, Dr. The hon. member for Mundingburra made Gabriel, and not only to that gentleman ~ut a sarcastic remark about the Commonwealth to his wife, who feels it her duty to be Wlth Government's attitude towards T.B. I will her husband. She is quite happy to be along tell you what the Commonwealth Government's side him in carrying out the good work on attitude is towards sufferers from Hansen's the island. There is a noticeable difference disease. I am very glad to learn-and I am in the patients under the care of Dr. Gabriel. sure other people will be also-that Hansen's He does not hold himself aloof; in other disease has been recognised by the Repatria words, the patients regard him as one of them. tion Department as attributable to war dis It is very appropriate at this juncture to pay abilities, I believe because Korea is recognised a great tribute to an honourable member of as a country where it is endemic, and there the medical profession who has taken such a may be one or two cases from that area that great interest in the welfare of the people has helped in this direction. on the island. The Commonwealth Government have been In reply to a letter in the Press th.e approached on many occasions to take into Minister has :t'nentioned some of the amem consideration the granting of T.P.I. pensions ties available at the island. He said that to sufferers from Hansen's disease. I am beer is provided for the patients. That is pleased to say that through the efforts of the very good for those who like it, and it is Relatives and Friends' Association, backed up very desirable that they should have that by the Returned Soldier Organisations, the amenity, but unfortunately the supply does Commonwealth Government have recognised not stop with the departmental supply. Many the claims of six patients suffering from well-meaning friends and organisations make Hansen's disease as being attributable to a habit of taking beer to the island and war disabilities, and they have granted them sometimes patients get a little more than is T.P.I. pensions. advisable. They have bPen told by Dr. Gabriel that beer has a harmful effect on the As previously stated I believe that manual ultimate cure, if taken in anything but the and physiotherapy should be introduced to prescribed quantit:Y, and I appeal to the Peel Island, and that we should not wait till Minister in charge of this institution to have the sufferers go to the mainland. I a little more care exercised in controlling the mentioned that subject 12 months ago when illicit supply of liquor. I believe the practice speaking on the Address in Reply, and I was very prevalent there until recently, but I believe there is some movement to intro am now happy to say that it is not a quarter duce some form of it. It is said that as bad as it was before. However, according physiotherapy would not have a great deal to medical advice it is still too prevalent from of effect on the patients because of their the point of view of eventual effective cure. lack of feeling, owing to the nerve-destroying The Minister mentioned that the Red Cross forces of this disease, but relatives of some service for handicapped workers operated on of the patients who have carried out physio Peel Island. That may be so now, but it therapy on them have found that it has a is onlv within the last few weeks that this very desirable effect. I believe that many of >vork has been done there. It is unfortun&te the sufferers who have been discharged during for both the patients and the public that the last 12 or 18 months-and I am not sure more publicity is not given to what is being of the number; I believe it is 15-unfortu done there, and I repeat that drug therapy, nately have developed foot trouble and they physiotherapy, and manual therapy must work cannot get about as well as they would like hand in hand if the desired result~ are to be to and they are unable to carry on their achieved. On a previous occasion I spoke occupations. I believe physiotherapy would about the psychological effect of incarcerating have a very desirable effect in these cases, people suffering from this disease, aPd in welding and strengthening the muscles of although I do not favour segregation, I do their feet and thus enabling them to get believe that hospitalisation is necessary jn about the country as they wished. I believe many cases. I cannot say whether it is fRet that manual therapy also is essential. A or rumour, but it has been stated that several number of people on the island, if they were sufferers from Hansen's disease are being 1952-3A 1464 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.
treated by private doctors, under guidance course of treatment. This disease can be and with the necessary drugs. I am not cured if the sufferers adhere strictly to the opposed to that in any way. course of treatment laid down. Mr. Aikens: Some private doctors are The transfer of the site of the lazaret treating their friends for Hansen's disease from Peel Island to Burpengary was brought and, out of friendship for them, are not about at the request made by the relatives reporting them. of these people for easier access to them. The mainland site offers many facilities and llir. NICHOLSON: It is unfortunate that it has a very fine sandy beach. The mosquito under our present system they become eligible infestation spoken of by hon. members for transportation to the island immediately opposite does not constitute an insur they are reported. mountable problem, because mosquitoes have been successfully eradicated from areas more I was alarmed at seeing a statement in the densely infested with mosquitoes than Press that there had been an alarming spread Burpengary. I know of one· area in the of leprosy in the Northern Territory. In my North that was reclaimed and where the opinion, the attitude of the Press to Hansen's mosquitoes were eradicated successfully. This
disease leaves much to be desired. In my problem should not be a very difficult one7 opinion also, what the Press calls an alarming with co-ordination between the Government spread of Hansen's disease in the Northern and the local authority concerned. Territory was not so much an actual spread Patients enjoying freedom from segrega as the result of the fact that hundreds of tion as a result of negative tests may be put people are becoming more enlightened, that back into the lazaTet if a subsequent test they know there is an ultimate cure and, pToves positive. A person who has been because of that enlightenment, are reporting released as cured may have established him more freely than they did. I do not believe self in employment, but if he has one posi there is any alarming increase in the incidence tive test he has to return to the clinic. That of the disease. On the contrary, I feel that means that his home is again broken up. I people have more confidence in an ultimate desire to eliminate the mental strain that that cure and are coming forward more freely. It sort of thing causes the patient. Some less is my firm belief also that the abolition of rigid provision should be inserted in our legis segregation will have a still further beneficial lation. I know of a family that was scat effect in encouraging people to report the tered to the four corners of the continent complaint. · because some of them contracted leprosy. The I am pleased to put on record the fact mother, the son, and then the father each that .a Commonwealth voluntary advisory contracted it in turn. Later on, when they counc1l has been established to investigate had been Teleased, each got a positive test, this disease and I am confident that the which meant that the home was broken up Department of Health and Home Affairs again. I took an active part in trying to will welcome any help this council can offer do something for that family, but because of in an attempt to free this country of the provisions of the Act nothing could be Hansen's disease. done. I understand that in some countries the law is not as rigid as it is here. Mr. KEYATTA (Townsville) (12.54 People suffering from T.B., which is the p.m.) : I support this important vote and most contagious of all diseases, are treated as compliment the Government in what they are outpatients and are allowed to mix with their doing for the unfortunate people who are fellows in society, but not the unfortunate stricken with Hansen's disease. I think we person who suffers from Hansen's disease. all realise that the stigma placed on these I suggest that the Act should be relaxed so as unfortunate sufferers in the past has had a to allow these unfortunate people the same great deal to do with causing mild cases to liberties as are allowed to sufferers from become chronic, and I still believe that much T.B., syphilis, and other contagious diseases could be done to effect a cure if the Press Any person suffering from T.B. can spread would do more to enlighten the people. the disease if his drinking vessels are used by These patients are. the victims of a dread other people, and in other ways. disease, but Hansen's disease is nothing com I ask the .:\1:inister to consider amending the pm·ed with tuberculosis, which is one of the legislation RO that the members of a family most dreadful diseases known to science. where Hansen's disease is present can remain People suffering from tubeTculosis are in their own home. I know that the Minister treated as out-patients and are able to move must be guid'ed by medical direction, but in about in society and enjoy the comfort and some places-and I instance Great Britain amenities of home life, but those suffering patients are allowed to remain in their own from the scourge of Hansen 's disease are homes under direction whilst being treated. segregated. The effect is, as I have said, to That is not possible in Australia. convert mild cases into chronic one.s. I I am reminded of the case of a prince in think that much could be done for the Asia who contracted Hansen's disease and sufferers of Hansen's disease by making banished himself into the wilds of the jungle them feel that they are really the victims of and there endeavoured to find' a cure. He circumstances, just like the pe.rson who is noticed that some of the animals were eating struck down by a vehicle when walking certain plants and decided that he too would across the street. I stress that point very taste the juice of it and miraculously enough strongly. Isolation is necessary for the pur he was cu~ed. He became a new man entirely. pose of enabling the patients to have a strict He went back to his kingdom and remarried Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1465
and it is on record' that his virility was such of which the State can well be proud, is rend that his wife had twins eight times in suc ered there to suffering humanity. The Min cession. I have read the story; it is on ister and his Government are responsible for record. The late curator of the Townsville the success that has followed the work of botanical gardens, Mr. Anderson, often told this noble band of sisters. It was because the story and even mentioned the name of the of the natives' contact with the white race plant. He could not understand why medical that they contracted Hansen's disease, which science had not made some use of it for was previously unknown amongst them, and curative purposes. First of all, the cure of therefore the service now being rendered to the prince was accepted as a miracle but it them by the Government and the Franciscan came about through the use of this medicinal sisters is the least that we can do for them. plant. It can be seen, therefore, that industry too can play a very important part in the cur" The Commonwealth Government should of this dread disease. The juice from this make an allowance to the dependants of plant could possibly be used for the purpose sufferers from Hansen's disease equal to that but that is a matter for medical science. made to sufferers from T.B. It would enable these dependants to get the necessary food 1\Ir. H. ·B. Taylor: You ought to know and essential comforts that are now denied the name of the plant. them. The State Government have approached the Commonwealth Government with a request lUr. KEYATTA: I d·id know the uame that the dependants of sufferers from Han of it but at the moment it slips my memory·. sens 's disease be placed on the same basis as At any rate it is growing in the Townsvil!e dependants of sufferers from T.B. Public botanical gardens. opinion should be brought to bear on the Commonwealth Government to induce them to The department is to be commenc:ed for grant this reasonable request. This has been adopting the name of Hansen's disease in rejected. -preference to leprosy. It has to be remem lJered also that if a sufferer's resistance is The inmates of our leprosariums are sup lowered' the disease may become chronic and plied with such amenities as radio sets, cloth thus make him a permanent victim of it with ing, tobacco, and beverages. They are little little hope of a cure. I desire to ~ompliment enough to provide some comfort and to Dr. M. H. Gabriel, a highly qualified medical brighten their unhappy lives. fellowship-holder, and his staff for their excel The Government are pursuing a right policy lent work on Peel Island. They have been in their intention to transfer the leprosarium responsible for a number of cures. from Peel Island to Burpengary. The new Mr. Lnckins: He is a native of Brisbane site is on the seaboard and possesses ideal too. surroundings, the only drawback being a creek, which overflows its banks and leaves lUr. KEYATTA: All the more credit to water on the adjacent land that tends to him. Queensland should be prourl of this breed mosquitoes. This is a menace that has man, who has given a practical demonstra been proved by the Americans and since by tion of his medical excellence in the number our own authorites to be capable of eradica of patients he has cured of the disease. tion. Burpengary was adopted as a site on the recommendations of the department's We have also the leprosarium on Fantome administrative officers and on the request of Island under the control of the Franciscan numerous patients and their dependants that sisters whose noble work is one of sacrifice. they be transferred to the mainland where Prior to their coming to the island the their relatives and friends could visit and Department of Native Affairs was con brighten their lives, as is done at the Eventide si)d€rably handicapped in arranging for Home at Sandgate. The transfer of the treatment for native sufferers in the North sufferers from Hansen's disease to the main but the Franciscan sisters volunteered their land will end their isolation, which is one services in this noble work and arrangements of the main purposes of their removal from werf\ made for the establishment of a treat Peel Island. There is nothing wrong with ment hospital there. Good work is being done that proposal. not only by the sisters but also by the natives on the island, who hitherto had been more JUr. H. B. Taylor: Except the mosquito sternly ostracised than even the natives on pest at Burpengary. the mainland. Therefore, we have a splendid service from both the sisters and the natives, 1\'Ir. KEYATTA: It has been proved a work that is little known outside these that mosquitoes can be eradicated, as was places, grand work that is unheralded and done at Cromarty. The U.S. Army authorities unsung. This noble band of sisters, prompted set a fine example in that respect. by their Christian faith, have made this There is one interesting phase in the lives great sacrifice to relieve these unfortunate of the patients on Peel Island. Mr. J. H. suffering natives, who are brought from all Elliott, the optometrist, is carrying parts of Queensland for treatment. Fantome out an excellent service. Mr. Elliott Island is a show island, one of the most is interested in plastic work, and beautiful of the Palm Island group. Good arrangements have been made for fishing is to be had there and a water supply him to make three plastic noses. If these costing tens of thousands of pounds has are successful it will mean that it may be been installed. The island is visited by the possible for other ravages of this disease to Department's medical staff, whose reports be camouflaged. These gentlemen are doing reveal that a very fine and essential service, everything possible to help the patients by 1466 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. increasing the &menities and making their people are entitled to the best possible lives as bright as possible. At the present conditions and surroundings, and I suggest time there is a ferry service running to that the lazaret be placed on high ground Peel Island, but in the stormy and rainy and far from the disturbing insects, the season the journey is very uncomfortable for mosquitoes, which we hear so much about. patients and relatives; therefore the transfer We ask these people to sacrifice their free to Burpengary is a step in the right direc· dom, consequently we should provide the tion. best possible conditions for them. The question whether the patients should Visitors to Peel Island were restricted to be allowed to mix with society generally is one visit a month and I have had in my one for experts to d·ecide. If it has been district the unfortunate instance of a man possible in Britain the same action should be whose wife was confined on the island. He taken here. I understand that isolation is was so attached to her that he disregarded regarded as necessary in order to ensure the rules, provided himself with a boat, and strict treatment; when patients are free they went to Peel Island every week-end. Of often fail to carry out the treatment strictly. course, in doing this he was breakiRg the Burpengary will be very convenient and law, and I advised him not to break the accessible for relatives and friends who wish law, othe~·wise he would find himself with to visit the inmates, but it is sometimes very a very sick wife and without his businees-he difficult owing to the weather for the launch was a business man. He was in fact prose to tie up at the jetty at Peel Island, so that cuted. I appeal to the Minister to giv<: the patients were isolated for considerable every possible consideration to al,lowing periods. The site at Burpengary was recom weekly visits by relatives to those 111 the mended by the medical staff of the depart lazaret. I have no dread of contracting this ments and it is welcomed by the patients disease. As I have said, I was in a part of and their relatives owing to its accessibility. the world in which it was very prevalent. I moved among numbers of people suffering lUr. LUCKINS (Norman) (2.34 p.m.): from it, but I never contracted it. There I remember that when I entered this must be some reason for that. I hope that Chamber many years ago we had a debate with the advance of science we shall in the about the conditions prevailing at Peel next few years have Hansen's disease Island, and I wish to pay a tribute to the eliminated from our list of diseases. department, the medical officers and other staff for the many amenities that have been Hon. W. JU. MOORE (Merthyr-Secre provided for the patients since that time. tary for Health and Home Affairs) (2.39 p.m.): The debate has bee~ very ~nterest iUr. Aikens: Once they got rid of ing and only one controversial subJect has Cilento they were right. been raised, the question whether sufferers from Hansen's disease should be segregated. lUr. L UCKINS: There must have been Laymen with limited knowledge pit their some obstacle. In common with other mem opinions against those of medical men and bers I urged that better amenities should be the judgments of medical science. I prefer provided and I am glad to know that they to be guided by the advice of our medical have been, and I have had no reason to com officers who with their staff, compare more plain of conditions at Peel Island since. I than f~vourably with those in any compar wish to pay a tributB to the medical superin able department in Australia. The Director tendent and staff, who have done much to General of Health and Medical Services, help to eliminate this disease. I believe Dr. Fryberg, and hi_s deputy, Dr: John~on, that Hansen's disease is now curable. The are in close touch with advances 111 medical attitude of the public is caused more by science. They have attended many con fear of the disease than the disease itself ferences and are au fait with the latest but medical science has so advanced that the writing on many subjects. We prefer to time is not far distant when there will be take the advice of men who are competent no necessity to have any lazaret, as it is to offer it, and I should like the Committee called, the institution in which we segregate to understand that in matters such as this sufferers of this disease. I take this oppor the Government are in duty bound to con tunity of thanking the medical staff and all sider the requirements of the people of the those associated with them on Peel Island. State. The Minister concerned, the members I have had some experience of living among of Cabinet who make most decisions on these the unfortunate people who suffer from matters, the administrative staff, both pro Hansen's disease, as many years ago I lived fessional and lay, are not a pack of ghouls in China, a country in which it was wide who have no humanitarian feelings. We are spread. In those days sufferers of Hansen's here to formulate a policy and administer disease were known as lepers. I came in it in the interests of the people of the close contact with these unfortunate people, State, and we will be guidecl by our medical but- to my amazement I was not infected officers, who are competent to offeT advice. with the disease at all. The Government have decided that sufferers It is the intention of the Government to from this disease shall be segregated. transfer the lazaret from Peel Island to a Hansen's disease is a communicable disease site at Burpengary. I do not know the exact and therefore sufferers from it can spread locality but I understand it is low-lying infection. land and cannot be classed as the healthiest It is interesting to know that the propor part of the State by any means. These tion of sufferers in Queensland is indeed low. Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1467
For example, of a total population of approxi disease is on the increase in England and the mately 1,250,0QO, the number of sufferers disease has now been made notifiable. Every segregated has averaged about 50 for some thing tends to more drastic treatment and, years now. in all probability, segregation. li'Ir. Lnckins: Is that both black and Something was said about coloured com white people? munities. It was found that where the disease was rife amongst coloured communities and Mr. MO ORE: Only white people. There many were suffering from it no useful pur would be approximately the same number of pose would be served by putting numbers coloured people, but the figure I have given away in isolation. relates only to the white people. lU:r. Aikens: You have no coloured JUr. Aikens: Is there not a theory that people at Peel Island, have you? in certain districts the disease is endemic~ l\'Ir. l\'IOORE: Possibly so. However, we JUr. l\IOORE: No, they are on Fantome Island. When we consider the size of our are to continue our policy of isolation. population and compare it with the number Reference was mad'e by one hon. member of sufferers, it can be honestly argued that to conditions of discharge. Before discharge the fact that these sufferers are segregated 12 smears were r·equired over a period of 12 has minimised the incidence of the disease. months. This was reduced to 11 and in some Of course, only infectious cases are isolated, eases to probably 10. Other things too are and to align ourselves with modern trends on taken into consideration. When patients are the matter, I point out that the Common discharged they are examined twice during wealth Government, no doubt on the advice the first year and after that annually for five of their medical officers, have seen fit to estab years and then they are finally discharged. lish a leprosarium in the Northern Territory i do not agree with the remarks of the hon. for the segregation of sufferers from this member for Mundingburra. He is given to a disease. lot of exaggeration. For one thing, it m~st In the March issue of an American journal give a patient a considerable amount of relief known as "The National Journal of Lep and comfort to iind that on examination he is all right. If such a person did 1_10t !mve !1-n rosy,'' is a very interesting article based: on examination he would probably hve m da1ly a discussion by leading specialists of an out dread of a recurrence of the disease. We break of Hansen's disease, as we call it here. believe that our methods are getting the best It refers to an unparalleled epidemic that results and we propose to stand' by them. broke out some years ago on the island of When my medical advisers think we are safe Nauru. The treatment of the disease and we will give these people their complete free the experience gained: there were discussed, and one interesting paragraph reads- dom but we are bound to serve the whole of the people of the State. My advisers base '' The main features of the special their opinions on medical knowledge and measures to control the disease were monthly research and on information received from all inspections of the entire population, special parts of the world, and I repeat that J?r. examinations of suspects, segregation of all Fryberg and his staff are conversant >Vlth but the very earliest and' mildest of non the latest thought on the subject in all parts infectious cases regardless of the bacterio of the world. logical findings (that during the earlier period, later modified to segregation of l\'Ir. Low: What is the practice in. other only the cases found bacteriologically posi States of the Commonwealth~ Is it umform ~ tive by the rigorous methods of examina tion employed), and out-patient treatment l\'Ir. l\'IOORE: The Commonwealth are of the unsegregatecl cases and of· those about to build a leprosarium in the Northern paroled from segregation until regarded as Territory. ready for discharge.'' Burpengary has again been thrown into There again evidently one of the reasons why the ring. I d? not know. ha;':' hon ..members the epidemic was anested was the fact that of this Committee can nse m theu places suff~ have some first-hand knowledge of what they Mr. MOO RE: The hon. member does propose to .talk about before they get up to not know, and that doe.s not mean that what speak. Somebody made a statement the other I am saying is inconect. He has shifted clay that was not true but he said, "I got his ground ten times since this project was the publicity.'' first mooted. He has a very shoTt memory. Ac< I say, the site covers 2,000 acres. These I have been on this site, and it is interest· ing to know that people have been living on patients need a fair amount of room. We intend to give them a large area for recrea it for many years. They were not eaten by mosquitoes. Two families were running a tion. The hon. member for Murrumba faTm theTe before the land was resumed. I referred to occupational theTapy, which in went up there and met one of them and they itself means that we shall have to give the did not appear to me to have been eaten by patients plenty of room. This property is mosquitoes. bounded by the main road, it is close to the railway line and it has a couple of natural The next furphy was that if theTe was boundaries, including a creek- on one side. rain the place would be coveTed with wateT. These were things that were taken into On one occasion it rained heTe foT a fort consideration when the site was compared night and one Friday I went up to the site with areas elsewhere that might have been in my own car, with members of my depart suitable. It is well known to the Govern ment. We got there quite easily. I will ment that there is not much land close to admit that I got into a bit of mud, but it the city on which such institutions can be was only because I was stupid enough to placed and the difficulty the Government will walk irito a piece of ploughed gTound. It is have in the futme in providing social a beautiful site; it is high, with a beautiful services, especially hospitals, will be to get outlook onto Redcliffe. The hon. membeT adequate areas near enough for the purpose. foT Munumba can smile, but there is nothing For instance there is not enough land at wrong with the site. the Brisbane' General Hospital to throw your hat, if we wanted to expand there. We had JUr. Nicho1son: It is surrounded by swamp. visualised a modern treatment institution for mentally sick people, which would have meant lUr. :iliOORE: I am amazed at the out more institutions. Where are you going to look of these people. This place is within a put them~ Today we aTe seeking new areas couple of hundred yards of Beachmere, a for the industrial facton- for the blind and gTowing seaside resort. I should imagine a ne.w site foT a school ·for the blind. The that fTom the point of view of the develop difficulty will be to get suitable areas and ment of seaside aTeas in the hon. member's we must go further out. For a school for electorate-- the blind in particular we shall have to have an area to suit the type of patient that will :ilir. Nicholson: How far did you say be there. The urban area of Brisbane will it was fTom Beachmere ~ have to be expanded and most people should be pleased to think that the Government are Mr. :iliOORE: It is not very far from Beachmere. It is within 40 miles of where taking the initiative by going into the out I am standing. side areas. If there are certain shortcomings at the :illr. Nicholson: You said it was within site for the leprosarium we will cure them. a couple of hundred yards of Beachmere. We will contribute something towards a good lUr. l\IOOitE: I was speaking meta and proper plan for the development of this phoTically. It is not veTy far fTom the State, quite apart from a leprosarium for growing seaside resort of Beachmere. Pro b these people. This institution will be handy ably the people who are building seaside to the Brisbane General Hospital and the cottages theTe did not know they would be treatment of the patients will be carried out eaten by mosquitoes. If they aTe, probably in conjunction with the services at the they do not know anything about it. Hon. Brisbane General Hospital. membeTs opposite have said that one would There is one great bugbear with establish bog clown there. As I say, I went up there ments off the coast and that is the difficulty afteT a foTtnight of faiTly heavy rain, and in getting suitable employees to go to those although theTe was viTtually no road onto the places. We might just as well face the fact site I got there in an oTdinaTy motoT-car that there is no normal life there and that without the use of chains. The site covers if people could get work on the mainland an area of 2,000 acres. It was discussed the.y would not go to those places. Some with the patients themselves, and one of their undesirable types of employees got into these requests was that they should be on the places off the coast and the patients and the waterfront. We are giving them what they good types of employees suffered thereby. asked for. Nobody can tell me there are no By the removal of these off-the-coast institu mosquitoes on Peel Island. Every seaside tions onto the coast all these unsavoury resort I have ever been in has its m'osquitoes. incidents, I hope, will be done away with. As the hon. member for Norman pointed out, Mr. Nicholson: What part of it is on spirituous liquors were taken over there and the waterfront~ at one stage in very large quantities. How Mr. MOO RE: If the hon. member does ever, I cleaned that up and I give the hon. not know let him go and have a look. member some credit for that. We are minimising this difficulty as much as we can Mr. Nicholson: I know. and when the institution is moved to the Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1469 mainland we shall have a better opportunity that changing political conditions had of dealing with these wrongs committed by delayed consideration of the proposal to pro unsuitable types of employees who may be vide allowances to patients suffering from engaged in the institutions off the coast. leprosy analagous. to those now payable to Reference has been made to the rehabilita sufferers from tuberculosis. A further con tion of the patients. The matter has been ference was held' last year, attended by Dr. discussed with them but they prefer to await Fryberg, when this matter was raised again. advice on rehabilitation until they are The only thing to be done is to keep on ham discharged. mering away at it to get the maximum amount of social-service payments for these sufferers Reference was made to physiotherapy. Dr. whose health has been ravaged by this disease. Lahz, a specialist in physiotherapy, has been We will do our part. consulted and he proposes to visit the patients and to advis"e the department. The The prefabricated buildings to be erected Red Cross Society takes classes of patients on the new site at Burpengary are now on the in occupational therapy and up to the water. Despite all the alleged bad points of moment 18 patients are being instructed by the site at Burpengary, I can assure the Com the society, which is doing an excellent job. mittee that we are proceeding with the transfer. The hon. member for Murrumba is shifting his grounrl a bit, for today he is in ~Ir. Nicholson: How is the water favour of doing away with the isolation of supply~ the patients. When it was mooted that the leprosarium should be removed from Peel Mr. MO ORE: The water is all right. Island to the mainland he was not in favour We have a number of water schemes. That of it. again amuses me. It is inevitable that with the establishment of these institutions within ~Ir. NichQlson: I was in favour of its b_eing on the mainland but I objected to the the urban areas of the citv thev must one site at Burpengary, because it was a man day have the benefit of the metropolitan water grove swamp and was mosquito-infested. supply. What is wrong with that~ If my department has to spend money in providing lUr. lUOORE: The hon. member was water for this hospital, it must be envisage_d also in favour of segregation at one time, as the beginning of a water supply for this but today he has shifted his ground and: area. spoken of their being unsegregated. Mr. Nicholson: We only want to get ~Ir. Nicholson: No, hospitalisation but some information on it. not segregation. Mr. l\IOORE: I can assure the hon. lUr. ~IOORE: It is very hard to define member that the taxpayers' money is being the difference between the two. well spent. ·when the sufferers of Hansen's disease are Mr. Nicholson: We realise there are hospitalised, the State increases their invalid difficulties. pensi01:s. I have a case in point before me of a sick male patient. He is in receipt of lUr. MOO RE: There were a number of the invalid pension of £3 7s. 6d. a week, and schemes, and we used the most economical the State has increased that pension by the in the interests of the hospital. The pro payment of dependant allowances to his wife ject will go on. We believe, until we get and three children, which has brought that further information, that we shall have to payment up to £13 3s. 6d'. a week. The pay isolate these sufferers in their own interests. ment of allowances to dependants of sufferers of Hansen's disease has been raised a number I might say, in conclusion, that Dr. Fry of times at conferences attended bv the berg informed me that within the next few Premier and the Prime Minister, as well -~s my months a number of patients will be released predecessors, and in addition in communica and the number remaining will be reduced tions from me. It has been discussed over a to about 29, which goes to show that we are long period at the annual conferences of the getting good result-s. National Health Committee of the Research Vote (Lazaret, Peel Island) agreed to. Council. In 1950 the following resolution was moved at a meeting of this Committee- '' This councilrecommend:s that standards GOVERNMENT MEDICAL OFFICERS. of control in leprosy as set out by the Com Hon. W. M. l\IOORE (Merthyr-Secre mitt~e on Tropical Physiology and tary for Health and Home Affairs) (3.6 Hygiene should be adopted as far as pos p.m.) : I move- sible in all States and that to ensure the efficient application of prophylactic " That £4,785 be granted for 'Govern- measures, the Commonwealth Government ment Medical Officers. ' ' ' should pass a special Act granting to certain This vote makes provision for the payment of lepers allowances along the lines of those salaries of Government medical officers. The available to sufferers from tuberculosis increase over the amount expended last year under the Tuberculosis Act.'' ' is due mainly to the provision for the salary That resolution was not agreed to by the Com of the full-time Government Medical Officer. monwealth Go1ernment. Then in 1951 Dr. He was previously a part-time medical officer. Downes, the spokesman on behalf of the Com Vote (Government Medical Officers) agreed monwealth Government, informed the Council to. 1470 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. REGISTRATION BOARDS. children under 14 years of age is £3 12s. 6d. a week, to which is added child endowment lion. W. JU. JliOORE (Merthyr-Secre of £1 5s. a week, making in all £4 17s. 6d. tary for Health and Home Affairs) (3.7 a week. It is easily seen that that would p.m.): I move- be insufficient to enable a mother with three ''That £6,397 be granted for 'Registra- children to live- in reasonable comfort and tion Boards.' '' so the State adds to the revenue of the home. The increase over the amount expended last This Governme·nt, out of their own revem;es, year is due to thr payment of the basic-wage grant an additional £1 a week for each chrld, rises. Because of the increased services now making a further £3, and bringing the total given, the work of the boards is increasing. income of the mother from £4 17s. 6d. to Vote (Registration Boards) agreed to. £7 17 s. 6d. a week. A similar payment is made from this vote STATE CHILDREN. to the wife of an invalid pensioner ivith three lion. W. Jli. lUOORE (Merthyr-Secre dependent children. In such a case, the tary for Health and Home Affairs) (3.8 invalid pension paid by the Commonwealth p.m.): I move- Government is- " That £323,752 be granted for 'State £ s. cl. Children.' '' 3 7 6 a week-husband's pension. 2 6 6 a week-wife and child The sum asked for this year for this vote allowance. is £84,173 greater than the appropriation 1 5 0 a week-child endowment. for 1951-1952, and £55,999 gre-ater than the amount expended in that year. £6 19 0 a week. The increase of £55,999 over the amount Again realising that this amount is insuffi expended last year is made up of an increase cient to maintain in any standard of decency, of £9,655 for salaries and £46,334 for con the invalid pensioner, his wife and three tingencies. The increase in salaries is due to children the State makes additional pay the increases in the basic wage, and increased ments df £3 a week, being £1 a week for staff. The increase in contingencieR is due each child, and £1 3s. 6d. a week relief. for mainly to the increased allowances made to the wife, bringing the total amount recerved foster parents, and to denominational and charitable institutions caring for State wards. to £11 2s. 6d. a week. In February of this year the alolwance was In addition to the State aid me·ntioned, increased to £1 a week and the full year's we provide the children of school age with payment for this increase will be borne in all school requisites. It is found also ~hat 1952-1953. Increases in the cost of provisions many husbands receiving partial war pensrons and clothing account for the balance. are in the same position, that is, their pen sions are not sufficient to keHp them and This is another humanitarian vote, the their wives and children. In these cases also money being used in the care of our less aid is gmnted by the State in a similar way fortunate children, and I feel sure that its as in the cases mentioned previously. expenditure for this purpose will meet with the approval of all hon. members. The policy Unfortunately, in many cases it. is n~t of the department for years has been the possible to have the children .kept m their recognition of the fact that the child's right own homes and as many as possible of the ful place is in the home of its natural parent children are boarded out with foster parents. or parents. Every inducement is now given If the foster parent is suitable a_nd the h?me to the mother to keep her children instead of is one in which children will recerve the- nght putting them in any institution. Many mothers care training and atmosphere, this is prefer had to put their children in institutions in able' to their remaining in institutions. A the past, simply because of financial difficul familv life is one of the greatest assets a ties following the loss from any cause of her child· can have, and this policy of boardin;; husband, the breadwinner. Hon. members will StatH wards with suitable foster parents agree that it is often quite impossible for a to a great extent makes good the disadv;m mother to be the breadwinner and at the tage the child is under through not. havm15 same time care for her children. A mother its own home. These foster parents, m. addr left with young children cannot go to work tion to the child endowment, are pa1d an and leave them unattended. Any money spent allowance of £1 a week from the· State in enabling her to carry on the home is money Children Department. Every care is taken well spent. We are endeavouring to put her by the department to ensure that the child in a position to stay at home and give the is being properly cared for and frequent children the natural mother's care to which visits are made by inspectors of the depart they are entitled. With this end in view, ment for this purpose. help is now being given to widows, deserted wives, wives of invalid pensioners, wives whose Of course, adoption is the best method husbands are in hospital or in prison, to from the point of view of the child but there unmarried mothers, and also to widowers who are many children under the care of the are invalids or pensioners, and whose wives department who cannot be adopte·d. We have have deserted them. Unfortunately it is extraordinary cases of parents who are lo!h true that Commonwealth pensions to widows to part with their children permanently, m and to invalids with children are not suffi the hope that at some future time they will cient to enable a home to be kept up: the be in a position to establish a home and care widow's pension paid to a widow with three for their children. Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1471 If you want instances of great mother love increased sufficiently to enable them to do so. you can :find them in this department. As their earnings increase the subsidy is Recently there was an amazing case. A decreased, and when that subsidy is no longer single woman had a child. She was extremely required it is discontinued. It is a good sick but after some years she found herself scheme that is showing good results. The in the position to care for this child depm tment does not relax its supervision and herself, so that it would have its own guidance of its wards when they enter mother's motherly care and affection. The employment. It continues to protect, advise, case gave my department much worry. The and direct them until they reach the age of woman lived in New South \Vales and advice 18 years. Again I pay tribute to the advice was sought through the relative department and assistance rendered by the Director of in that State. The case had many angles. State Children and his staff. I might mention It was finally decided to let the mother have here that there are many of those children, the child. U nfortuna_tely the mother is now grown to manhood and womanhood who suffering from a serious complaint and the still come back and have a talk with the staff medical opinion is she cannot live very long about various problems. but she is now in a fit state to look after the child properly and she is also financially able This is the last opportunity Mr. Smith to care for it. We were happy to reunite will have of attending here as Director of the mother >Yith her own child. After having State Children. He is nearing the retiring been in this department for a brief period age and I take this opportunity of paying of three years, I have nothing but admira tribute t0 the great work he has done, not tion for the staff and the work they are only in the interests of the State children doing. but for many of the mothers and relatives. During the war period in particular, a great It is recognised that even where children deal of advice had to be given to many cannot be given the advantage of a home, mothers who could not stand up to the strain either with their own parents or with foster of the atmosphere of war. Mr. Smith and parents, there is an advantage in their being his staff, helpecl by the women police, saved cared for in institutions established by the many homes by their actions and good advice. religion of which they and their parents are Again some very interesting experiences can members. The;· combine good common-sense be related. Some of them were even judgment with their humanitarian feelings. humorous. There was a certain young woman We have a number of homes conducted by >Yho was getting off the straight and narrow the various religious bodies in this State, path somewhat. Her mother wanted pos and to help these bodies in caring for the session of this young woman's child, because children we give an allowance of £1 a week it was being neglected. Her parents were for each ward in the home. constituents of mine and on one or two occasions they had taken the child forcibly I have seen a number of these homes and to their home. The mother went and I can say nothing but good about· them. took the child from them. I went to see Excellent work is being done. The children these parents one clay and the little boy are wAll cared for, well fed and well clothed, >Yas there playing. It was lovely to see him and there is a very friendly atmosphere about racing about the yard extremely happy with them. The homes are rearing them as they his grandmother. I said to him, ''Do you should be reared, their education is good, >Yant to lPave Granny~'' He said, ''No.'' and an excellent job generally is being done The next thing that happened was that his by the staffs of these homes. I have no mother came along and grabbed him. She hesitation in saying that many of the would not look after him properly and the children are much better off there than they inrident ended at my rooms. While I was would be in their own homes. talking to the kiddy 's grandmother and I was waiting to get some information from Every opportunity is given for a good Mr. Smith, the mother bolted with the child. education. Of course, State children who do \Vhen I went out, she had gone. I rang Mr. not qualify for a secondary education are Smith. and it was not long before we had usually sent to employment on attaining the her back. age of 14 years, but where it is thought that they would benefit from further education, or We took little Jimmy from her for a period where a child has shown intelligence above until she mended her ways and then he was the ordinary, it is allowed to have se(Oondary given back to her. Many very human stories education or become apprenticed to a trade. could be told, and Mr. Smith could write one In many cases they have gone on and passed of the most interesting and human books ever their Commercial Junior examinations. written. His contributions to the welfare of parents and children alike, if he liked to lUr. Aikens: Have you not got one tell them, would be illuminating. Mr. Smith taking a medical course at the University? was a school teacher in his early days; good judgment was innate in him and he took his Mr. lUOORE: That is true. At present humanitarian outlook into this department 66 children are apprenticed or in special and has imbued his staff with his views, and employment. Some difficulty was experienced I say that his department has been highly in obtaining suitable private homes for these successful because of the milk of human children, because their earnings were not kindness and the execllent judgment of the sufficient to enable them to pay reasonable man who is affectionately known as Old Bill board, but our Government instituted a sub Smith. He is not leaving us without having sidy scheme under which their earnings were trained an excellent staff to take his plac~. 1472 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. Mr. RASEY (Windsor) (3.21 p.m.): The father to look after them. They receive good Minister has just outlined the working of a care when tney reach an age at which they department dealing in human values and can go out and earn a living. he has shown what wonderful work it has I call to mind something that happened done. Continuing from where he left off, I when I was an alderman; it was at the end want to pay my tribute to Mr. Smith, the of the war, when labour was very difficult to Director of State Children, for the wonderful obtain. A friend of mine wanted a boy and work he has given to us over many years. spoke to me about it. I saw Mr. Smith, who Bill Smith was a teacher at the New Farm sent one to him. Within the last 12 months State school when I was a pupil there and or so that man told me that the boy who when I became associated with public life I went out to his farm subsequently went into went to his department on many occasions a small industrial town not far from Bris and I have realised in the last few years the bane, got a job there and settled down, and great knowledge that he gained of family is now an excellent citizen. I know of many life through the administration of this other boys who have gone thTOugh secondary department. school and have branched out into various professions under the guidance of this The appropriation for 1952-1953 for this department. department is £323,752, which includes the cost of the various homes and the administra The Diamantina Receiving Home at Wooloo tion of head office. As the Minister rightly win is in the area I have the honom to said, many human stories could be told of this represent, and ·I have made several visits department. I know of two or three people to it, with the result that I am fully aware who, when they approached me in relation to of the excellent facilities that are made avail the adoption of children, were taken along to able by the department for the healthy see Mr. Smith, who told them the exact upbringing of the children who are inmates procedure to adopt. Since they adopted there. At the present time there is an average <'hildren the relf,,tions between them and of about 50 to 70 children in the home, and the department have been very friendly. in the infants' section there are about 30. The home is not stinted for staff. There are This is a department that deals not only a matron, three sub-matrons or fully-Pertifi with the adoption and care of children in cated nurses, and a staff of about 30. The the various homes but is a father to orphan infants' rooms are well lighted and ventilated children. Only last year I had a very inter and the whole of the infants' section is a c sting case in my electorate. A friend of credit to the department. The children are mine was ill for some seven or eight months given in this home the mother-love that they and by the time he died his purse had become would otherwise be denied. There are excel very small indeed and his widow was left with lent playing-grounds, and there are r?oms for four children. Unfortunately her relatives indoor games in wet weather. The ch1ldren of tried to tell this woman that the State school age attend the Wooloowin State School, Children Department was some sort of a the rear fence of which ad'joins the grounds monster department that would take the of the home. children from her and that she was not to I shoultl like to pay a tribute to the heads trust her children to the department. She of both the Department of Public Instructi?n consulted me and I was able to convince her and the State Children Department for arnv that instead of her going to work and endeav ing at a friendly settlement in relation to a ouring to keep the children on the wages she small area of land: that had not been used would earn and leaving her children at the by the Receiving Home over a period of years. mercy of some body else, she should get the Anybody who passes frequently along Kedron widow's pension and State aid and with that Park Road knows that the grounds of the money she would be able to look after her receiving home are very extensive, and in one children. I told her that the department corner there was a small area that was not would be a friend, guide and philosopher to being used by the home .. You w~uld not her. We went along and saw Mr. Smith and require a piece of land the s1ze of a b1g school after talking to him for a few minutes she grouncl to cater for the needs of 30 infants turned to me and said, ' 'I feel quite certain and anotheT 20, 30 or 40 other children, yet that these people who have been talking to that was the area of the land at the Wooloo· me about the ' State Children Department win State Children Home. For a consicTer·able know nothing at all about it.'' It is almost time the Wooloowin Rtate School committee 12 months since that woman's husband died had: wished to get a small part of the land and she has since been able to carry on and belonging to the State Children Home to rear her children with the aid she is receiving relieve the congestion at the school and from the department. She is very happy. through the good offices of the Secretary for I met her only a few weeks ago and she was Health and Home Affairs the Secretar~· foT very grateful for the kindliness, the human Public Instruction and the Director of State understanding, and the great interest of Mr. Children, Mr. Smith, it was agreed that the Smith, Mr. Harris, and the other officers of Wooloowin State School should have the tem the department. ' norary use of a small corner of the lani! now being used by the home. On behalf of the From my own personal experience I know Wooloowin State School committee and the ~hat this department is doing an excellent narents of the children attending the school JOb. The ?fficers have been trained in kindly I deRire to place on record their thanks and understandmg by Mr. Smith and all the mv thanks, as the representative of the area, children who come under th~ care of the for the friendly understanding anived at for department really have a very benevolent the use of the ground by the school. Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1473 This ilepartment has increased its activities fortunate enough to have every care bestowed from year to year ani! this year there is an on them and to share in the home life of appropriation of £20,000 for the Wooloowin very good employers. Others often were State Chilc(ren Home. If there is any depart treated on a level less than that enjoyed by ment that is doing an excellent job for the human beings. That was the great pity of people it is this department at that home. the system and was something tl>at we made No higher praise can be given for any work every possible endeavour to remedy. than that which involves the rescue and the help of unfortunate peOple. I have always During the long period Mr. Smith has been felt that little chililren and old people are attached to this department he has become deserving of our charity, our thought ani! our something of a psychologist in dealing with attention, and this ilepartment is at all times people who want to adopt children or employ mindful of them. them. Nobody can render any greater public service than in this sub-department. I rose particularly to pay a tribute to my olil school-teacher, Bill Smith, who is about There are times when I feel that after to retire from the position of Director of the.se children are reared and cared for in State Chililren. I should like also to pay a the various State schools and by foster tribute to the matron, staff and nurses of parents, it is advisable to get them employ the Wooloowin home, for the excellent jobs ment in -the country. I mentioned this fact they are doing, and on behalf of the people some years ago. Many of these children are of Wooloowin to thank both the Secretary at a great disadvantage and for hereditary for Health and Home Affairs and the Secre reasons are likely to get off the path of taTY for Public Instruction for the use of rectitude to a greater degree than children that smap corner of the ground' of the State reared in homes under the supe.rvision of Children Home, \Vooloowin, to relieYe the their mothers and fathers. It would be very oYercrowded conditions at the school. much better for them to be domiciled in the lllr. lliULLER (Fassifern) (3.33 p.m.) : country than in the city after they complete I . ilcsire to take this opportunity to pay a their education and go into employment. tnbute to Mr. Smith and the officers of his For reasons I have just mentioned, through department for their very good work. First reckless or careless parents, after working of all, I am reminded of the unwanted child. in the city they are more likely to go astray I haYe had some experience in this connec in the city than in the counhy. If proper tion in the past couple of years, and I was supervision could be exercised it would be of amazed at the appreciation shown by a immense importance if these children could number of childless people "-ho have been able obtain employment in the country. I realise to adopt children. One childless couple told the difficulty of inspections in the country in me that they wished to do so. I spoke to order to check up on the home life of their Mr. S':1ith and he was successful in doing employers, but a great many children could somethmg for them. In all mv experience avoid falling by the wayside in their teens I have never seen a mother adopt a child if they were domiciled in the country where with such. parental loYe as I saw in this case, they were not likely to be subject to the ancl that IS true to the father as well. Some temptations that ·exist in the city. children are brought into the world in very unfortunate circumstances, and' in the days As one who has been an observer of what gone by we knew the tragedy of it. They has happened, it is very easy for me to were unwanted and some were passed on to criticise but I trust that the knowledge Mr. relatiYes. As time went on we realised just Smith has obtained by his long experience how sad the story was. This child brought in this sub-department will be passed on to comfort and joy to people who were childless. the junior officers, to enable them to continue One cannot help thinking that where there is his good work. This is a vote that I have careful selection of the adopting parents very never questioned. It is worth every penny often the aclopted children are more fortunate it costs the State. By it we have improve.cl than if they were born into their own homes. the lives of these children very considerably. That was true particularly in this case, and Much more can be done by educating people I often try to imagine what the position would' to either adopt these children or employ be if there was no organisation in connec them according to othe highest standards of tion with the at1option of children. There humanity. There is weakness in all of us. must be a proper selection of adopting parents There is a love and a friendliness in the if the adopted children are to have a chance natural parents that is not always evident in life. in a foster parent. In that respect a great many people have failed. I think that if I should like to refer also to the work greater care was exercised in that respect of many of our churches in connection with child welfare. They do a wonderful work the lives of these children would be made brighter. in a great many cases but nevertheless when a number of children have to be reared and I did not want to let the vote pass without cared for, as the churches do, it is difficult making some reference to these children. to follow them after they leave their care. People who live quite close to me have They _go out to employment and very often adopted a child and it has been the means that Is where the tragedy of their lives of increasing the happiness of the woman begins. A number of years ago there were particularly very considerably. The child people who more or less refied on State will never know that they are not its children to carry on their vocation. Some parents. No child could be more fortunate children went into good homes and were in the selection of a home. 1474 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. Mr. TURNER (Kelvin Grove) (3.41 to £154,698. That is a tremendous increase. p.m.): As I said before, this department is A widow with three children under 14 years the Father Christmas department of the now receives State Government; it shows no monetary £ s. d. return but it pays great dividends in that 3 7 6 a week pension. it has turned out some wonderful citizens. 3 0 0 a week State aid. Mr. Smith and his officers are very particular 1 5 0 a week child endowment. about the people in whose care they place these children. Many are fortunate in being £7 17 6 a week. adopted by kind people. I know of a girl who was adopted by wealthy people and For each additional child the State aid is when they died they left her all they increased by £1 a week. possessed. The wife of an invalid pensioner with three children receives The history of this department is very £ s. d. interesting and it shows how this Govern 3 7 6 a week pension. ment have cared for these children and 2 6 6 a week wife and child widows. It was in 1902 that consideration allowance from Federal was first given to the matter of doing some Government. thing for the widows. The matter was 3 0 0 a week State aid. dropped for some unknown reason and it 1 5 0 a week child endowment. was again brought up in 1906 when a payment was made on a sliding scale of 4s. £9_ 19 0 a week. for the first child, 3s. each for two children, In addition, she gets £1 3s. 6d. a week relief and 2s. 6d. each for more than two children. from the Department of Labour and In those days many widows would take in Industry of this State. It should make us State children in order to earn a few feel very happy to know that the Govern shillings. ·when the children reached the age ment have done something towards looking of 12 they ceased to get any aid and had to after the poor wife and mother who has lost fend for themselves. In 1911 the age was the breadwinner. I have for years longed liftea from 12 to 13 and the scale of pay for the day when a widowed mother, par ment from 4s. to 5s. for the first child, and ticularly one with young children, would not from 3s. to 4s. for each child after that. have to labour to fend for herself and Foster-mothers and widowed mothers were family. It is a blot on our society that paid 7s; and 10s. according to the division widowed mothers should have to rush off to in which they lived. work, many of them in the early hours of the morning to clean offices, and again late In 1915, when Labour assumed office, in the evening. Such a woman has to rush allowances to mothers and fost·er-mothers off to work in the morning, leaving breakfast were increased and made more uniform. In and everything ready for the children of school age not only to dress and look after 1917 the leaving age was increased from 13 themselves but to look after the younger to 14, the same as the school-leaving age. members of the family. The mother returns In 1918 there was a further increase in from her morning chores and works in the allowances and in 1921 there was another home all day. She prepares the evening increase. meal for the children and leaves for her work in the city. That has been going on In 1930-1931 the scale was reduced by the for far too long but I am happy to know then Government from 10s. to 9s. and 9s. 6d. that by reason of the pension supplied by to Ss. 6d. a week. It has always been a the Federal Government, child endowment, matt·er for regret that the then Government and the aid given by our State Governme~t, took 1s. a week from the poor children. the life of such a mother is very much easier However, in 1933 the amount was increased and happier than formerly. to the original sums of 10s. and 9s. a week. In 1943 it was increased still further to My thanks and appreciation go out to ~ll 12s. 6d. a week. It went to 14s. a week in officers for their kindness and the way m 1950 and to 16s. a week in 1951. In March, which they deal with young people who seek 1952, it was increased to 20s. a week. to adopt children. On several occasions I have taken young people who have produced In 1914 there were 1,068 mothers and medical certificates to say that they are 187 foster-mothers. The department paid unable to have children of their own, and £43,586 4s. 4d. towards the keep of 3,372 the fatherly way in which Mr. Smith has children. In 1952 the number of widowed talked to them has been a joy to hear. It mothers had increased to 1,438 but foster has made one feel that he owns the children, mothers had decreased to 152. I really and that he has the same interest in the believe that that was brought about by a lives of the young couples. His position is greater number of childless couples adopting difficult today because the demand ~or children and a lesser number of foster babies is greater than the supply. Despite mothers seeking the care of children. That that, he is able to send disappointed young is the only reason I can advance for the couples away thanking him not for refusing drop from 187 in 1914, when the population children on the grounds that they are not was only about half what it is today, to 152 capable of rearing them, but because he has in 1952. In 1952 the amount had increasea not the children to give them. It is very Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1475 pleasing to have officers who are so efficient nature of Mr. Smith, and I have no doubt and understanding that they can send away that every hon. member feels about him as disappointed but happy young people who I do. Every hon. member knows that if he seek to adopt children. Great credit is due takes along a case to Mr. Smith and he can to him and his officers for that. stretch a point or give an extra ''quid,'' as the saying is, for the mother and the chil One of the most pleasing features from dren, he will gladly do it. Nothing is too Mr. Smith's point of view must be the fact much trouble for him, and if he errs at all, that many of those young children who have he errs on the side of generosity to the gone to foster-parents have returned to him widow and her children. For that alone I later to wish him the compliments of the think we owe him an unpayable debt of season and to talk with him. That must be gratitude. It is true he has trained an as great a thrill to him as it is to a school excellent staff to carry on the good work he teacker when a former pupil of his who has has done. I know his deputy, Mr. Harris. been successful in life returns to visit him He sang with me in the Apollo Choir in and wish him the compliments of the season. Townsville; I know him well and he is a man I feel at times that Mr. Smith really believes of the calibre and character equal to that that the children are his responsibility of his superior <'lfficer, Mr. Smith. because I am confident that if he were the father of them all he could not feel his · I got a tremendous surprise a few years responsibility greater than he does now. I ago when I came down to see Mr. Smith regret very much indeed that he is reaching about a particular matter. You see, Mr. the time in life when he has to bid fare Graham, we have an erroneous impression well to the department. The department at least many of us have-that a man who will certainly miss him greatly, as will the spends most of his life in an office in Bris ehildren and the widowed mothers. We know bane does not know very much about what it is said that there is always someone to is going on in the outside world. Quite a :fill one's shoes, but that someone does not lot of hon. members and men like myself .always do it as effectively and efficiently pride themselves, if there is occasion for as the person he succeeds. If there is any pride, on the belief that they are men of one alive who can improve on Mr. Smith as the world, and that they have been up many head of this department, I sincerely hope dry gullies, and that there is nothing about the Government will appoint him. the tricks of the trade that we do not know. We think ourselves well versed in the ways Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (3.54 of the world, and there is nothing about the p.m.) : In view of the fact that this is the seamy side of life that we do not know, not last time the Director of State Children, necessarily from personal experience. We Mr. Smith, will sit in the ministerial pew in pride ourselves that nothing goes on about this Chamber while the Estimates for his us that we do not know and that we are department are being discussed, I should be wide awake to everything. A couple of particularly churlish and a political as well years ago a case was brought to my notice as personal ingrate if I did not pay my in Townsville that, quite frankly, immedi tribute to the wonderful work he is doing, ately aroused my suspicions. I will no-t tell not only for the State but for the children hon. members of the circumstances, but I of the State and those mothers who, through made inquiries myself and my suspicions unfortunate circumstances, have to seek the 'vere confirmed. It was a case that was aid of his department. being dealt with by Mr. Smith and his department. So I said to the person who We in this State are particularly lucky in came to me, ''I will see Mr. Smith when I that we have a very fine set of departmental go to Brisbane.'' I was laughing inwardly officers in every department of the State. It to myself at the surprise that Mr. Smith has been said that the departmental officers would get when I told him the conclusion reflect the disposition of their Ministers. I had reached, as I thought myself an That is not quite true, because we have a ultra-worldly man. When I got into his office, couple of Ministers to whom a taipan would to be quite candid, he made me look like a raise its hat if they passed one, but our novice, as he told me much more about the departmental officers and their junior staffs case than I ever knew and I had lived in are the last word in courtesy and efficiency. the town where it occurred. Not only that, Although it is particularly difficult to draw but when he disclosed to me the amount of comparisons and I do not like doing so knowledge he had gained I realised, to use because I cannot speak too highly of the the vernacular again, that after having gone courtesy and efficiency of all Government up many dry gullies, I was only in the departments, I have always thought that we kmdergarten class compared with Mr. Smith. can best describe the State Children Depart So great is his knowledge, not only of the ment as the best Government department in humanitarian side of the work of his depart the worst Government building in Brisbane. ment but the worldly side of life, that it is It occupies a shocking building and I hope u~surpassed. I t~ought, before going into sooner or later that it will be moved into hrs office, of puttmg a blush of surprise 10n a commodious and salubrious building and h_is ~ace, but I left his office with my ears one more in keeping with the humanitarian tmglmg. We were both of the same opinion, work of its officers. but in his office in Brisbane he had more knowledge of the case than I had and I I suppose every hon. member of this thought that I knew everything abo~t it. I Committee has had some experience of the know that Mr. Smith would not like me to kindly consideratio·n and compassionate disclose the particulars of that case, and I 1476 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. only mentioned it as an indication of the Dr. Noble: Why did he have to go tremendous amount of general, worldly and bacH human knowledge possessed by Mr. Smith. lUr. AIKENS: He did not have to go Mr. H. B. Taylor interjected. back; there was no legal compulsion. _It ·was just that the people who had adopted him lUr. AIKENS: I could reply to the hon. allowed the mother to prevail upon them to member for Clayfield, who is in the Chamber send him back to her for six weeks a year. today without his gardenia, by saying that humility is my second name. ll1r. Jl'Iorris: Very stupidly, I should I hope that the State Children Department Sl:ggest, or very mistakenly. employs the strictest secrecy in respect of 1\Ir. AIKENS: Mistakingly is the better the name of the people who adopt a child. word. They tried to see the mother's If a mother places her child in the care point of view. They realised that of the State Children Department for adop she naturally ,,-anted to see her child and tion, I sincerely hope that unuer no circum they were loth to keep him. apart from h_er. stances whatever will the department disclose I advised them then that It was a foohsh to the mother of the child· the name of the arrangement and, as I say, I was on the people who have adopted it. To the spot and saw his sorrow and the mother's uninitiated that might seem callous, but it happiness. is absolutely essential in the interests of the happiness of the child and the people I visualised how the mother would feel in who adopt it. I know of a very distressing six weeks' time when she was sending the case of a girl in Townsville who had a child little boy back, because in s.ix weeks he prob during the war. She found she could not ably would leam to love his natural mother rear the chilu and she agreed to have it when he would have to go back to the foster adopted by a very fine Townsville family. parents or the parents who had adopte~ him. Fnfortunately, she knew the people who J then said that it would be a tragedy mdeed adopted her chill!, who grew into a very if the mother of a child knew who the lovely and bonny kiuu:v-. The people who adopting parents were, because I suppos~ the adopted him came to Brisbane to live and maternal instinct. the mother love-call It by one day brought him down to Parlia any name you like-would be paramount in ment House for me to see him when he was the long run a11d the natural mother would about five years of age. He was a lovely v;ant her child back. Here was a case where child in every respect, and it was quite both the foster·par~nts and the uaturalmot~er obvious that they loved him as much as he were actuated only by the love for. the ~hild lcved thGm. However, in that period of five and each wanted the child for a perwd of the years the natural mother rehabilitated her year. self, if I may use that term in a general Then of course we have the type of other sense, because there was nothing case, which I think is exemplified really wrong with her previously, by the famous case of Freddy and she hall got married. She then Bartholomew the film artist, whose parents made a demand for her child on the people did not wa~t him as a child. There are who had adopted him. Naturally they came the people who cannot be bothered rearing to me and I advised them not to give up the a child and after he is adopted out and sent child. Then they reached an agreement that to a university by his adopting parents, where the child was to return to the natural mother he becomes successful in a professional or for six weeks each year. I was flying from l;usiness career or as an artist and begins to here to Townsville one day, and the adopting earn a lot of money, the natural parents parents had brought the little fellow to Eagle whip up a spurious affection fo~ him _and Farm to send him to his natural mother in hop in for a cut of the money he lS earnmg. Townsville in the care of the hostess. Because Here was the case of Freddy Bartholomew I knew them well, I offered to look after at Hollywood. He was given to the care ~f the little boy on the journey up. I am his aunt and his parents had washed therr fairly callous and cynical and it takes a lot hands of him. In the course of time he to bring a tear to my eye, but the emotion became a successful film artist and made di~playecl by that little boy on leaving his millions of pounds. Then his parents, ~ho adopting parents was really heart-breaking. were in Great Britain, whipped up a spun~us Although we flew on the through trip, I think affection for him and after a senes we were almost over Rockhampton before the of court cases before the American little fello'v stopped sobbing, although I tried courts seeking their cut and they left all the tricks of the tmde that I knew to :B'reddy Bariholome:w almost penniless. I stop him, and I have grandchildren of my have quoted the case of Freddy Bartholomew own. When we got to Townsville his natural not because I am interested in him as an mother and the man she had married were artist· rather do I regard him as a drip and waiting on Garbutt aerodrome for him. and a dill: However, I quote his case to show her emotion, too, was tragic to see. She was what eau happen. I quoted the case of the almost beside herself with motherly affection. affectionate people who only wanted to see However, the little boy did not want to go that the child got maternal affection; now I to her, as he hardly knew her. have quoted the case of the father and mother Dr. Noble: Was the little boy legally who wanted to get rid of the child and when adopted? he became successful in life sought to share his earnings. They will wait until th~ child Mr. AIKENS: Yes. has amassed considerable wealth and 1f you Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1477 will permit me to swear in the Chamber they this work. The Minister is well fitted for become a bloody nuisance to the child and the humane care of State children. I have e\-eryone else concerned. They become an had a number of dealings with Mr. Smith absolute pest. ancl at all times found him most courteous and helpful. He was always au fait with And so I hope that the State Children his facts. He concerned himself with minute Department will observe the utmost secrecy v ith respect to the mother and father who details concerning the lives of each child adopt the child. I really believe that to be that came under his care. He goes to no in the best interests of the child and even end of trouble to correlate all the facts of the natural mother herself. The name of the a child's past with the object of conecting adopting parents should remain an absolute ancl guiding its life in the future. The secret with the department. Westbrook Home for Boys has played a prominent part in correcting faults lUr. lUORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) (4.8 p.m.): of children committed to its care. Both Over the years I have had occasion of coming Mr. Smith and his staff are picked officials in contact with Mr. Smith and the officers of ancl temperamentally fitted for their task. his department and I can say with every I have never known them to either lose their confidence that no officer is more universally balance or say a word out of place. Some respected and admired than he. I say that officers try to be smart ancl, as the saying with a considerable amount of pleasure goes, take a rise out of one, but there is no because I know of quite a number of cases State or denominational institutions, hospitals, Again I compliment the Minister and his or other homes, 281 were in employment, and officers, especially Mr. W. Smith, the 179 were released on probation. Allowances Director of State Children, upon the work are paid for children under 14 years of age they have done. I do not know whether we where the parents are in need of financial aid shall be able to obtain a Director of State and become eligible under terms of the State Children who will be as efficient as Mr. Children Acts for same. Smith, but at least we ran feel that if he The churches play a very important part in l1as had the benefit of Mr. Smith's guidance the care and psychological development of in the department over the years we shall be the child, and careful supervision is exercised fortunate indeed. by the department. The Westbrook Home for Boys is situated on 800 acres and the children Ur. KERR (Sherwood) ( 4.28 p.m.) : I admitted to the home are taught agriculture take this opportunity of paying tribute to and dairying. the great work done by Mr. Smith for the State. Everyone knows that he is a man of Formerly, the system for the adoption of sound common sense and of great humane children was such that the child was merely feeling towards our children. I know from a pawn. It became the victim of circum experience that when investigating applica stances. Nowadays every care is taken to tions for children for adoption he has been ensure the child's welfare. No child is exceedingly fastidious. I know that in every allowed to be adopted unless adequate case he must be certain of the home to which provision is made for it by the foster the child is going before he will grant per parents. Their background is investigated. mission to adopt. I know of one lady who All the investigations as regards adoption are has adopted three children and every one of done as secretly as possible. All steps in them is a credit to her. She told me recently the process are now looked after by the that she was only sorry that sip did not State Children Department. Hon. members start to do this earlier in life. We all know will recollect that only last year there was that there is a fear on the part of many an amendment to the Act to o-vercome a people that something in the ancestry of an practice that had crept in. It was found adopted child might manifest itself in later that there was a .loophole in the original years. We know also that in nine cases out Act. As I have said, now all negotiations of 10 this fear is not justified and it is time for the adoption of a child must be made people realised that they should not worry through the State Children Department. about it. That was not so formerly; negotiations for the adoption of a child could be made The service Mr. Smith has rendered to this directly with the parents or mother. If the State will be long remembered. I join with foster parents do not live up to their respon every hon. member in wishing him a happy sibilities of caring for the child, the child retirement and long life. He is indeed for can again become a ward of the State and tunate in that he can look back on his life's come under the control of the State Children work in the department and say with justi Department. I might here mention that in fication that he has done something worth some instances greater ~are is given to a child while. by this department than is given by its natural parents. This is to be commended 1\Ir. CHALK (Lockyer) (4.29 p.m.): I and in this regard the State of Queensland do not wish to delay the vote because I is second to none in the Commonwealth. think that previous speakers have expressed There is no other State in the Commonwealth my sentiments to Mr. Smith and I should where the laws as regards children are so like to be associated with those hon. members ably and effectively controlled as in the State in wishing him well. of Queensland. These State wards may sit I take this opportunity of expressing for their State scho1arship examination and appreciation of the work done by the late eventually can work their way on to the officer in charge of the Westbrook Home for University. Every provision is made for thei1' Boys. I refer to Mr. Mc:Millan, who died full education and there are many very fin·J suddenly at Westbrook in June last. Just citizens and 1highly qU:a1ified professiona~ prior to his death I had to interview him men who were at one time wards oJ' the on one or two matters and I was greatly State. impressed by the way in which he attended to my representations as well as the way in There are always two ~.iil<'3 to of transportation and has individually con 127 miles an hour. The speed was faster tributed more to our high standard of living than has been attained by the diesel-electrics and civilisation than any other :form of trans introduced since. port. The first steam locomotive dates back many years. The first stationary engine was So that we might have some picture of invented by Thomas Newton in 1705. An what the American railroads do and how improved locomotive was invented in 1769, they are constituted I should like to give· but it was not until 1814 that Stephenson some statistical information as to the impor developed his locomotive, called the loco tance of the railroad companies in the· motive engine, and in 1825 the Rocket super economy of that country. It is the greatest seded it. It proved particularly successful. motorist country in the world. There are· Sincp that time there has been a tremendous 50,000,000 private and commercial vehicles development in steam locomotion throughout and that gives a percentage of a passenger the world. car for each 3. 7 people and a truck to eYery 18 people. The highways are magnifi The first country I visited was the U.S.A. centlv constructed-millions have been spent In view of the problem confronting Aus on them-and the fact that :fuel is readily tralian Governments in regard to the available means that motoring costs are less stand'ardisation of gauges, it may be of than elsewhere. Notwithstanding the advan interest to know that in 1871, less than 100 tages in that regard, during World War II years ago, there were no :fewer than 23 97 per cent of the total number of tro·ops gauges in America, :from 6 :feet to 3 feet were moved by rail, 90 per cent of the Army in width. By 1887 every important equipment was moved by rail, and 90 per cent railroad there had changed to 4 feet 8'! inch of the Navy equipment was moved by rail. gauge, so that American railways had effected The railways of the United States, just as that great alteration in 16 years. At the the railways here, will continue to be the chief present time there are 223,779 miles of track means of moving large quantities of goods in the U.S.A., 99.6 per cent. of which is and personnel from one po·int to another. 4 feet 8'! inch gauge. That alone was a very Despite the agitation for alternative forms tremendous undertaking. of transport, we have not been able to To my mind America has the best trains in develon one that will move goods cheaper the world and some of the worst trains in or mo~e economically than l'>y rail. the world. In that country they build' pre There is a difference between the United cisely as we do, whether they are building States rail system and those of most other pasRenger coaches, or passenger busses, or countries inasmuch as they are completely sailing craft on the river. The most luxurious privately owned, and they resent even the and most opulent form of transport is used suggestion of a subsidy because they fear in areas where there is a greater density of that a subsidised system may mean a m?ve population. or where the revenue return is towards control by the Federal authonty. greater. Their crack tmins nm between Washington and Chicago, Washington and There are 683 private railroad companies New York, and Los Angeles and San Fran and of this number 131 are first-class rail cisco to Chicago. The trains on those routes roads, 171 second-class, 166 third-class, 215 are the best passenger trains in the world. are switching and terminal companies. The They are certainly magnificent. They are first-class railroad is one having an operating streamlined, with stainless steel panels, and' revenue of over 1,000,000 dollars a year. For are hauled by diesel-electric locomotive~ easy arithmetical calculation I will regard sometimes aggregating 6,000 horse-power each, the dollar as being the equivalent of 10s. in and there may be :four units, with one driver our money. As I mentioned, our revenue is and one fireman to each, on each train. in excess of £20,000,000, so a first-cl~ss railway in the United States with a revenue These trains travel at a tremendous speed. of £500,000 Australian would not be very big A train leaving Los Angeles for Chicago, a compared with the Queensland railways. distance of 2,000 miles, would reach there The figures of some of the 131 first-class in 39 hours, which is more than 50 miles an railroads are staggering however in regard to hour. The traffic is such that thev can volume of traffic. The Pennsylvania railroad spend tremendous sums in maintain'ing a has 26,000 miles of track and its investments road capable of high speeds. In Queensland in road and track amount to 2,922,916,226 cur rails are generally 60 lb. rails, although dollars. It can be said that approximately we have 80 lb. rails, and in the electrified £1,500,000,000 is the capital investment of area we propose to haYe 94 lb. rails. The that one Tailroad. average rail in America is in excess of 100 lb.-90 to 155 lb.-and that gives very The figures for the number of locomotives comfortable travel. The road bed is so con are really staggering. Their revenues last structed that it will take trains at this year were roughly £400,000,000 Aust;alian tremendous speed. In 1950 the highest and I would remind hon. members that IS for scheduled speed for a run of more than 50 one railroad only. They have 3,930 loco miles was that of the Burlington Twin Cities motives and 5,666 passenger cars. Whereas Zephyr, from Illinois to Wisconsin State at in this State we have 20,000 wagons, on this an average speed of 86.2 miles an hour. It is one railroad they had 199,738 freight cars interesting to note in contrast that the fastest and 116,743 employees. This is really big train run in 1905, 47 years ago, was that of business in a really big way. Whereas Min the Pennsylvania Special, a steam locomotive, isters of the Crown and Commissioners for which, for a distance of 3 miles averaged Railways in Queensland receive around £2,300 1482 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. or. £2,40? a yea.r, the president of a large is conveyed to the cashier. The consignment railroad m Amenca receives a salary of round notes are taken by that system for about a .about £60,000 or £70,000 Australian a year. mile and a-half to the chief goods In contrast with these large railroads they . office and immediately dissected' and have also some very short railroads. There are transmitted by teleprinters where simul ?-2 switch and terminal tracks whose milage taneously the information is recorded in rs .less than 80 chains. There is the Valley three different parts of the railroad com railroad, Pennsylvania, in the same State as pany's works. While that was going on the the Pennsylvania Railroad, which has only train would be going to the marshalling point :57 miles of track. It has 10 employees on to be taken over by a diesel-electric shunting rts payroll, nevertheless is classed as a engine, and the train would: be shunted up an third-class railroad. incline of about 30 degrees at about 3 miles an hour. At the top of this gradient they Dr. Noble: Do they all maintain their have a huge piece cut out of the ground and own tracks~ in this there is an armour-plated glass com partment in which there are two men who, Mr•. DUGGAN: Yes. They have a very with the aid of radio equipment, are examin ~omphcated system of charging a transport ing the wheels and bogies as they go over fee of so many cents a mile over a particular this point. As the train is shunted up the system. For instance, a consignment of 20 incline, the switchmaster, who has the infor tons of strawberries in a refrigerated car mation recorded simultaneously that truck may be sent from San Francisco to New 105, with 40 tons of iron ore for Sydney, or York and ?n its journey may travel over 16 Rockhampton, or 'whatever the point might be, pnvate rarlroads, each is credited with a is coming up, watches until the wagon is in (;alcula~ed sum for that part of the journey the required position and: then presses an ~he frer15ht car passes in its territory. There electric button, which shows that that wagon IS nothmg very unusual in that. Such a has to go into the traffic for Sydney or Rock system operates on the continent of Europe. hampton. As he is doing that, another opera One may go by a train that passes through tor in the cabin presses a button and the Germany, France, Austria and Italy. A wagon is grabbed by the flanges of the wheel percentage of that journey is credited to by mechanical arresters, and while this €ach system. is being done the wagon is being :il'Ir. Muller: How do they co-ordinate weighed automatically and: then it is these services one with the other~ released, and then, by the electrical control that is operated from the switchmaster 's 1\lr. ~U~GAN: They have a system of cabin, it goes down the grade and automatic commumcatwn. They have tremendous ally marshalls itself with the appropriate mechanisat~on. I ha~e heard critics ask why train on one of the 48 tracks. we do not mtroduce mto Queensland some of the methods used over here. Of course, the But you do require a tremendous volume Teason why we cannot do that is that the of traffic to justify that very high capital volume of traffic is not sufficient to justify investment. When people talk about doing the tremendously high investment. In Los things like that in Brisbane, it is all nonsen Angele~ I. saw goods yards that prior to sical because the volume of trucks over the mechr:msatwn ha~ 112 employees doing years would not be sufficient to justify that shuntmg operatwns. After expending very high capital expenditure. 5,000,000 dollars on it they reduced the Again, their system of signalling is very number of employees to 24. intricate and costly, but efficient. They have There they have very long trains. Some of about 14,000 miles of track, which is controlled them are at ~east a mile in length. I saw by centralised traffic control. One man can one goods. trarn of 14,00.0 t0ns being hauled see visually on a board in front of by a senes of locomotives. It is quite him the position of trains at various -common to see there 160 80-ton or 100-ton points covering in some instances about wagons being hauled over very long distances. 400 miles of track. He sees them from ~he average distance these goods are hauled a panel indicator, and he can control the IS m~ch greater than in this country where movement of those trains by the button and we might haul coal for 200 miles in America electrical operation. They have tremendously the average distance might be' 450 miles. expensive equipment, which enables them to They bring coal and other goods great dis move this great volume of traffic at a much tances. In the Los Angeles goods yards they lower cost than would: be possible in this have an area about 48 tracks wide. In some country. I repeat that these things are only instances they have to have radio communica possible because of the volume of traffic and tion between the train crews, and probably its density. We cannot do these things for three guards to allow the train crews to know a considerable time. the guards are on the train--they are so far But they did have something that appealed back they would not see them from the to us greatly. We learned something about locomotive . As I have said, in some instances the wheel alignment of locomotives and the there is radio communication or a series of reclamation of oil from diesels. They have -ea booses or guards. some very expensive chemical plant for treat In the Los Angeles yard that I visited the ing the used diesel oil. It goes through a train would come in· and the consignment refining process and is returned: in as good notes would be placed by the guard in a com a condition as the new oil bought from the pressed air tube, something like the system in oil companies for diesel use, and the cost of our departmental stores here by which money reclaiming it is less than the cost of the Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1483 new oil. That is done by the bigger com costs. The diesel train we put on trial in panies. I was fortunate enough to be able to the last few days cost the Government get, without cost, complete plans of that £72,000 and it is a four-unit train. In device, but we could not use it here yet, America they pay as much as £80,000 for because our volume of traffic will not be suf one unit so that instead of getting four ficient for many years. Later on, when we units for £72,000 we should be paying get 50 or 60 diesel-electric locomotives, we £320,000 for the equivalent of Budd cars. might be able to install a plant of that kind. These cars are capable of high speed but Car-washing facilities and coal-loading the company only builds them ·for 4 feet 8!i facilities were two things that we learned inch gauge and will not build for a 3 feet something about, and: they can be applied to 6 inch gauge unless the order is for 30 or 40. Dur requirements here. Mr. Thlnller: Do their rates vary very They have tamping machines. I ordered much W four of them on my return, from Switzer land. They will do a great deal to ease the Mr. DUGGAN: Between the companies? burden of renovating tracks in the outback parts of the State. They will be of great Thlr. Muller: Yes. benefit for people in the outlying areas, in the Mr. DUGGAN: No, they do not vary a north-western parts of the State in particular. great deal; they try to keep them as low as Despite the great efficiency of these various they can. They indulge in a lot of sales companies and the very keen competition, manship and have a public-relations group they have had nine increases in rail freights of salesmen canvassing for support for each since the war ended in 1945. When I was system. there they were approaching the Interstate Another feature of the system is that Commerce Commission, which is the control many private manufacturing concerns, such ling co-ordinating authority, for a further as meat companies, own their own rail increase. The companies cannot increase wagons. Hon. members can imagine the freights and fares of their own volition. Committee of Fruit Direction owning its IUr. Low: What would be the percentage own fruit wagons and Swifts owning its of increase W own meat wagons. The various companies owning these wagons are charged a fee of Thir. DUGGAN: Admittedly they were three or five cents per mile and it is the small, 10, 15 or 20 per cent., but there have responsibility of the companies to maintain been nine increases. I attended a session of the rolling stock in good condition. this Interstate Commerce Commission, which was presided over by a blind barrister. He Thlr. Aikens: Is it not the same with was a member of the commission that was petrol wagons in Queensland W charged with the responsibility of co-ordin Yes. ating the various forms of public transport Mr. DUGGAN: and determining fares and freights for the JUr. Nicklin: The petrol companies are operators, whether rail or road. responsible for maintenance~ Dr. Noble: Have they standard fares lUr. DUGGAN: ·Yes, and to a limited and freights or do they compete~ extent the Fish Board has agreed to accept a debit for fish miled from Townsville to Thlr. DUGGAN: In many cases there are Brisbane in the flush season. standard fares but the companies are not bound by them and they seek whatever traffic I investigated the question of refrigerated they can get. wagons and I found that despite the develop ment of individual units controlled by In the court-room where this session was mechanical apparatus, a preponderance of being conducted I counted 115 representa opinion favours the icing o£ wagons as tives waiting to give evidence before the against individual units. The individual units commission and hon. mambers can appreciate are always very large and very expensive to the slow and difficult method of getting install and if you get a wagon of beef and adjustments in revenue rates. There is something goes wrong with the mechanical competition from the airlines and other apparatus there is probably a loss of many sources, but there is a magnificent system thousands of dollars' worth of goods. of trains and schedules which, as I say, are to my mind superior to those I encountered Insulated wagons in the United States are anywhere else. The cost of these trains is of a very high standard. A train comes in great and one would have to pay £750,000 on one siding, where it is iced, and in for one complete train, whereas we are build another few minutes it is shunted onto the ing eight for somewhere about £2,000,000. next siding, where loading operations are con Our trains will compare favourably with tinuous. Whilst there is being developed an what I saw over there, taking into account independent refrigeration unit that uses fuel that we have not got the width of gauge nor of a very high octane rating, the overwhelm the heavier weight to give greater comfort ing opinion at the time I was there was that and riding smoothness, nor have we the rails icing was still the most efficient and economi or the curves and the even gradients they cal form of refrigeration transport. have in the United States, which give fast, lllr. Aikens: If they are loaded at a comfortable travel. We have to cut our meatworks, they make their own ice. coat according to our cloth. Again, we have not the density of traffic to justify extra llir. DUGGAN: Very often that is so. 1484 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. fhere are many ways in which the 1ailways by the trucking companies so long as they in the United States seek public patronage, contribute their fair share of wear and tear and they place great importance on an of the roads. However, there is a good deal effective public-relations policy. As in this of private hostility by the private road-user country, there is a tremendous amount of because there are on those roads perhaps five competition in the United States from or six or even a dozen huge trailers with 20 alternative forms of transport. Hon. mem to 30 tons each going along the highway at bers may have read recently about the Great 50 to 60 miles an hour. It is quite impossible Lakes scheme that the Canadian Government to pass them on the flat and when they get have ag1 eed to finance. It is a very expen to a hill they immediately slow down the sive project-it is estimated to cost about traffic. If a road is rather narrow there is one thousand million dollars-that will bring a disinclination on the part of the private iron-ore from Labrador down to the American motorist to pass on the hill and when the big border. The Canadian Government were very vehicle reaches the crest the driver accelerates anxious that the American Government should and is off again at 50 or 60 miles an hour. share the cost of the project, but the Ameri can Gove1nment refused to do so because of Mr. lli orris: But they have wider roads the tremendous opposition raised to it gener too. ally by the American railroad companies. These companies spend large sums of money Mr. DUGGAN: In some areas they have in such journals as ''The Saturday Evening four-lane highways, six-lane highways and Post'' in criticising Government policy in in some even eight-lane highways. I do not respect of alternative forms of transport. vvant to get onto the subject of roads except In all their trains the great emphasis is on so far as it relates to competition with the the safety factor, which is resented by the railway system. In Chicago they hav~ a airline companies. In almost every corridor hydraulic aid for use in the eight-lam' high of the Pullman cars you will see a big ways. Perhaps in the morning they may advertisement showing a girl or a boy of have a six-lane highway for i.nbound traffic tender years sleeping in a Pullman car and a two-lane highway for outbound traffic under which is the caption, ''Now I know and then at nightfall, when traffic is in the he is safe.'' reverse direction, they use this hydraulic apparatus for road guidance, making use of Another thing that is probably of some the beacons and bringing about a six-lane interest, in view of our decision to introduce highway for outbound traffic. It all depends diesel-electrics into this count1y, is that of on the density of the traffic at the time. In the 648 private railroad companies in the Los Angeles, for instance, they have spent United Stat<>s only two had retained steam to as much as 17,000,000 dollars, the equivalent the extent of 100 per cent. when I was there, roughly of £7,000,000 Australian on the and since my return I have been informed construction of two miles of road. that one of them, the Norfolk and Western, has ordered diesel-electric locomotives for Chicago has some of the best trains in the shunting purposes. It is onP of the most world but even there they have some very efficient railroad companies in the United primitive forms of transport. I discussed the States, and has done probably more than any matter with Mr. Ralph Budd, the chairman of other system in the world in the way of the Chicago transport authority. They have institutin~; an effective maintenance system the underground transport system, the street for steam traction. One reason for its cling level transport system, and the overhead ing to steam is that 85 per cent. of its total transport system. The overhead syste_m is l.raffic is coal traffic. In addition, the very noisy and very costly. Mr. Budd pomted g-eographical lay-out of the railway is such out to me that it was common for people that it is on a down-grade for about 85 per throughout the world to be always urging cent. of the route, which means that assisting that obsolescent rolling stock should be engines have to be used for only a very scrapped, to be replaced by the more modern dhort distance. systems, but they always resented the charges that were the natural consequences of such I should say that the average load of the action. Their desire to continue their under American freight trains would be in the ground system was largely due to the fact vicinity of 4,000 tons. I said earlier that that there were so many private motor-cars the time taken to travel the 2,000 miles in the United States. It is said that of the between San Francisco and Chicago on pas total passenger milage in the United St~tes senger trains is 39 hours, but except for 85 per cent. is carried by private motonsts, high-priority goods traffic it takes about three and that the difficulties of the railroad system weeks for goods to be conveyed over that and its problems are just the same in ess~n journey. The result is that several large tials there as here, except that they exrst trucking companies convey such goods as to a greater degree. millinery, shoes, high-class drapery and perishable commodities over the same dis I am making this survey to point out tance, with relays of about five drivers, in that other countries, with their dense popula :th·e days. In Australia the chief criticism tion and their other means of transport, have against the railways is that they do not the same kind of difficulties as we have here, allow a greater percentage of heavy trueks but to a greater extent. They have. the diffi to use the roads in competition with the culties of competition from alternative forms railways. of transport, they have the ~ifficul~ies of In the United States there is not the same user resistance, and the drfficultres of intense opposition to alternative competition balancing the budget. Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1485 I did not think that the underground transport. If we clicl so we should be system in New York itself compared with the charged with the abandonment of our less London tube system for efficency and smooth populated, isolated, and remote areas. ness of operation. In the United States everything operates according to mechanism l\Ir. lliorris: Do they as a matter of fact pull up much of the railroads in America~ in a very high degree. There you see no porters at the turnstiles; everything is auto llir. DUGGAN: They have pulled up a matic. You pay 10 cents at an automatic lot of lines. I have information that some machine and you gain ingress and you have thousands of miles of tracks have been pulled egress from the different platforms. By up in America. I have pointed out in paying 10 cents you can travel anywhere on defence of our policy in this State that we the system, say up to 10 miles. They have have taken up less track than any other no minimum or maximum fare as we have Australian system, yet we have been charged here. In Australia we would have, say, 3d., with having less track than we had some 4d. and 5d. for one section and then perhaps time ago. 7d. and Scl. for the next section but in New York you pay 10 cents and you may travel lUr. Sparkes: Tell us of one area in €ither 100 yds. or seven or eight miles. That America where they run trains for such long principle is of very general application. distances as we clo here. As in this country, the impact of road :ilir. DUGGAN: I cannot tell whether competition is very serious · indeed. The they run such tremendous distances there Interstate Commerce Commission, which is on their own account. In some cases they tllf' supreme transport body in the United carry livestock for a tremendous distance. States, in the latest figures contained in the There is a tendency in the United States last report I have, for the year 1948, shows for some meat operators, such as Swifts, that motor carriage move 6.6 per cent. of Armours and Wilsons, to build abattoirs in the freight but they received in revenue 34.7 the country areas. That is because they per cent. as against the railway companies. found labour conditions better there than in That indicates that, as in this country, they the larger industrial undertakings, where are taking the cream of the traffic, and con industrial strife occurred more frequently sequently throwing more and more of the and when it did occur occasioned greater unremunerative traffic onto the railways. In losses. 1951 motor carriage received 5.2 cents a There is the desire in America to have a ton-mile of Class I. railway goods trans transport system that is economic. This is ported by road as against 1.3 cents of the not strictly relevant except in pointing out same goods carried by rail. I do not want how important it is to maintain a flexible to go into the conditions of the different system. At the General Electric plant they systems except to say that undoubtedly are turning out 6,000 refrigerators in 24 motor-transport competition enjoys conditions hours, and you can imagine the dislocation that are more progressively cheaper, more that would occur if there was a strike for economical because of their adaptability and three or four clays, with the banking up of .flexibility, and beeause of their comparatively this tTemenclous number of machines; there smaller capital and working of longer hours, fore it is essential that they have a flexible ·which enables them to compete with the transport system. larger organisation bound by award condi I have made the statement that the diesel tions and standard hours. electric railway saved tlw American railroacls from bankruptcy. The number of steam As a result of agitation the toll system locomotives in operation has declined from as applied to road hauliers and private 60,000 to 25,000 and since 1938-1939 the num motorists has been set up in the United ber of clie'lel-electric locomotives has grown States. The toll in Pennsylvania varies from 318 to about 15,000 last year, and these from two to six cents a mile, and the 15,000 were doing more than 50 per cent. of acceptance of this system of highway finance the total traffic. We have found in Queensland has revealed that two-thirds of the total that the c1iesel-e1ectric trains which have been toll revenue is provided by trucking criticised here, during last week from Sun companies. My department's operations clay to Sunday brought clown wheat and other are governed by rail, road, and air com trafnc from Toowoomba tQ the extent of petition, and these alternative forms of 33,000 tons, and the highest record prior to transport are making it difficult for the that was 25,000 tons in 1949. That increased administration in the countries I have men traffic is clue to the utilisation of three diesel tioned to evolve a policy acceptable to the electric locomotives. In addition, because of community generally, and at the same time the quicker turn-round we had a net saving not to make an undue demand on the public of 800 wagons in Toowoomba last week- purse. In Queensland we have to be con 4 per cent. of our total stock was saved by scious of the needs of the community and the quicker turn-ronnel of wagons. That gives we cannot do what private companies clo in some idea of the operating savings that can the United States of America. If an be made with diesel-electric locomotives- Yet American section of the railroacls ceases to vou have people saying how deluded you are! be profitable its controllers have no hesita An engineer wrote to me the other clay telling tion in pulling it up and allowing the traffic me that I should have gone to the British to drift to some other form of transport. railway executive who had rejected diesel We cannot do that, even if we must meet electric locomotives. I have said that they were great competition from alternative forms of sound in rejecting them because their 1486 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. utilisation in the United Kingdom is not as lUr. DUGGAN: I am not talking about successful as in a country like America or that. Let the hon. member take note of the queensland, where we have a large sparsely amount of money the Commonwealth Govern populated area. ment have had for many years and the hon. member need not sneer. I am talking about The argument against electrification is the what the American Government did for high capital cost involved in overhead wiring. another nation, and does not the hon. member That is why electrification operates only in think we could expect our own Government closely settled areas. Anyone who knows to give one of their own States some help'!' history or has been in the United Kingdom We have not had that. knows that you cannot go far before you come to a city of a fair size. In that coun Mr. Sparkes: Why did Chifley not do try, too, coal of high quality is not as easily it? won as previously, and it is cheaper and ltlr. DUGGAN: Mr. Chifley agreed to more economical to burn low-grade coal in do it, if that is news to the hon. member. station power-houses than to put it into a locomotive. We have in Queensland the :illr. Sparkes: Why did he not do it? problem of the deteriorating quality of coal that affects the steaming efficiency of engines, lUr. DUGGAN: Because the war was on. which results in late trains, and crossings not I might say that I have had the -chairman being effected on schedule, and because of of the Graziers' Association, Mr. Gunn, in that delay train crmvs earning overtime, to see me, and his attitude is in marked which has a serious impact on the overall contrast with that of the hon. member for efficiency of the railways. Coal of the same Aubig:ny. Mr. Gunn has probably more know quality can be burnt in the Brisbane City ledge of the grazing industry than the hon. Council or City Electric Light Company's member. He has the welfare of the grazing power-houses much more effectively without interests of this State at heart. loss of efficiency. lUr. Plu:nkett: He is the man with the gun. I should say in the United Kingdom the tendency will be to develop electrically. In llfr. DUGGAN: He is the man with the France and Italy and Switerland that ten gun, but it is not a gun he will aim at your dency is noticeable. About 97 per cent. of back, as some other men do. I am pointing the total rail traffic in Switzerland, for out that there are some hon. members who instance, is electric. There they have water criticise the electrification scheme. power generating the electricity which enables their remarkably efficient trains to run. The lUr. Sparkes: What are you so wild French railways have made good progress; about? they have been aided by American Lease Lend aid, by which means in about 2 years lUr. DUGGAN: I am not wild at all, after the war they have received 1,000 steam but silly, inane interjections annoy me. I locomotives, 100 diesel-electric locomotives do not mind constructive criticism at all. There are those who think I am thin-skinnecl :1nd 40,000 wagons. but I am not thin-skinned at all. Since I Many people complain very bitterly about have been Minister any suggestion that has American imperialism, but the American tax been made on my Estimates that has been payer taxes himself fairly heavily to main well based has been carefully examined by tain this volume of aid to the democratic :11y officers. The other day there was the ~ountries. :B'rankly, I do not think it is mstance of some ledger accounts in appreciated. It would be very easy to talk Toowoomba. That was investigated immedi about a modern efficient system if we were ately and I ordered that the thing be altered given 200 diesel-electric locomotives and immediately. 'l'o know a thing is wrong about 10,000 steel wagons. Why, we should and because of stubbornness to continue it, not know what to do with them. Australia is is a sign of weakness. I do not mind con the only country, on an equation of values, structive criticism, but I resent the silly tl1at took part in the world war that came carping criticism that emanates from som~ out at least square with the United States hon. members opposite. I say that in this of America and we cannot trade with the case I did not happen to be the judge. A tl-emenclous number of people come to me United States of America because of currency and tell me to take no notice of Mr. difficulties. So-and-so, that if I do I am simply wasting The trend in the United States of America my time. It is not merely one or two people is towards diesel-electric locomotives, and in but dozens of people. Unfortunately some are this countrv we should be wise to do the on the other side of this Chamber. I will same. In 'closelv settled areas and metro not embarrass them by naming them. Unlike politan areas we should try to concentrate some hon. members, I do not break a confidence. on electrification. ·we have had our critics If somebody tells me something privately I of electrification, many of them sitting on am not in the habit of taking advantage of the opposite benches. I know of an hon. that confidence in this Chamber. I will not member opposite who gets up ancl rants and break a confidence. There are people who raves about the amount of money spent in are prepared to make constructive criticism electrification. on various things, but there are also others and I object very strenuously to capriciou~ lUr. Sparkes: And cattle dying out in criticism actu: Let me get back to electrification. The we ordered additional rolling stock and loco hon. member talks a.bout stock dying in motives from overseas, we ordered air certain parts of the State. I do not want to conditioned trains to serve the far distant embarrass the hon. member for Fassifern, parts of the State, to run from Rockhamp but he pointed out on one occasion-he was ton to Longreach, Townsville to Mount Isa, probably misquoted later, and I sympathise Brisbane to Cairns, and Brisbane to Cunna with him-that there may be times when it mulla. These were not for our beloved Bris does not pay to handfeed stock, that one may bane at all; of the whole bulk of our expen not be able to afford the handfeeding of diture our attention was directed towards stock in times! of drought and is reluctantly providing rolling stock for the movemen~ of eo m pelled to let the stock die. Very often, wool, livestock, coal and all the other thmgs even if there were rail links from the various transported over our Queensland railways, points where starving stock are dying, similar and to the provision of modern rolling stock drought conditions would exist in other parts for the benefit of the people living in the out of the Commonwealth. Wl1en Mr. P. R. T. back parts of the State. The same people who ·wills was Commissioner for Railways, I criticise that will talk about the need for asked him to have his officers take out some obviating the traffic bottlenecks in Brisbane. information for me, and that information Frequently we read about the Petrie Bight disclosed that some of our worst droughts in scandal about how people going home at night Queensland coincided with bad droughts in are held up for 15 and 20 minutes at Petrie New South Wales. I ask the hon. member Bight. Then you have the same talk about for Roma: is it not true that frequently, congestion at our markets and requests for in the midst of drought, a grazier will hope new bridges across the river. They come along and pray for rain and keep his stock as long with plans for the abolition of the bottle as he can before sending them away, because neck and suggest such things as the. abol~tion of the tremendous cost involved~ We had the of the Anglican Cathedral at Petne B1ght. example in the case of Mr. Russell, a former If we did that, we should be up for at least lwn. member of this Assembly. I refer to the £2,000,000 straightaway. The Anglican church time when the hon. member for Aubigny people would be entitled to ask that they poked his nose into the matter in an effort to have built for them a building or a cathedral gain some cheap political capital. I pointed that would be in keeping with the importance out that the sheep were in such a weakened of that important church, and I do not sup condition that they were not fit to travel, pose we would resume the land and build a and the graziers were hopeful that rain would cathedral for anvthing under £1,500,000 or fall. £2,000,000. We · could avoid these traffic Mr. Sparkes: That is not Russell's bottlenecks if we could get the people off the view. streets ancl move them quickly by electrified means to their homes. Let any hon. member :ilir. DUGGAN: I tell the hon. member consult his tram timetable and take the case that it is Mr. Russell's view and I prefer to of a person in the V alley and ·wanting to go take his view before that of the hon. member. to his home in the South Side. From the trm? Getting back to electrification, it is true time-table he will find that it takes approxi that we have critics. In reply to them, the mately 45 minutes to go a distance of 4 or 5 best example I can give is the fact that the miles during peak hours beca':se of the con South Australian Liberal Premier, Mr. Play stant building-up of traffic m the greater ford, has set up a committee to inquire into Brisbane area. thP electrification of railways in Adelaide, Let us forget about the comforts of the and the population of that State is much people of Brisbane and get back ~o the bu;ls smaller than that of Queensland. In New of Lindlev. Because of the saturatiOn of Ens Zealand they are extending electrification to bane traffic trains are held on the perimeter the larger cities. , The English Electric Com of the Brisbane area for long periods . of pany has been asked to furnish the New Zea time. We have the peak traffic of 23 trams land Govermnent with reports on the electri an hour during the peak periods between fication of the larger cities that are not served 4 and 4.30 and 5 o'clock but we cannot bv electric railways at the present time. Why handle more than 23 trains an hour, which is this~ Is it because the Governments cling is roughly one train every three minutes, but stubbornly to some idea that they want to· with electrification on the same track we do something for the cities and are not pre could handle 40 trains an hour. Anybody pared to go outside~ Do we find at Boulia with a knowledge of the topography of the air-conditioned hotels provided by private Brisbane area would know the costly resump enterprise~ At Brisbane we have our tions and the duplications that wou~d have Lennons Hotel, because there are passing to take place if we extended the "IVldth of through Brisbane enough people wanting to rail lines. There would be costly resump pay for the services available in air tions for roads, houses, bridges1 running into conditioned hotels to justify it. It would be many millions of poun~s, a~d we can get the silly to expect a hotelier to go to Boulia and same result by electnficatwn and the pro build an air-conditioned hotel. The same vision of overhead wires. thing applies in other directions. A person is 110t e-oing to over-capitalise his investment for Mr. Kerr: What about operating costs? anything. Mr. DUGGAN: They are muqh less, ancl Before we talked about electrification, our if the hon. member looks at tile report of first concern was to provide the very things the Commissioner for Railways he will find the hon. member for Aubigny complains that the Brisbane area is the only one where about. We built additional cattle wagons, there has been an increase in traffic, despite 1488 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. the fact that people are obliged to go to times. \IV e have spent large sums of money work by steam locomotion. I do not blame in regrading railway lines in various parts the office girl wearing her light summer of the State. We had a survey taken of the frock for not liking to get into our trains line from here to Rockhampton, and we hope when we are obliged to keep windows down progressively, by the removal of steep grades, to keep coal dust and grit out. It is all to increase train-load capacity. People talk very well to talk about this beloved city of about drawgear, higher tractive effort of Brisbane. If we are going to go back to the engines, strengthening bridges, and so on, but dark ages, the sooner we as a Government if we can progressively regrade we propose to get out the better. But the reverse is the do so. 'Ne had one experience of re grading on case; the sooner we as members of Parlia the Blair Athol line, where we spent £100,000 ment with responsibilities to the public get and Raved £10,000 a year on operations. At away from the dark ages the better. When the present time we are considering regrading I was overseas and was going through the west of Rockhampton. The estimate for the various rolling stock works in England job is about £360,000, and we expect to save I found rolling stock superior to anything £60,000 a year in operational costs. I think we have here going to Saudi Arabia, Aden, that is the direction in which we should move South America, Ceylon and other places, :·et for some time. we have people in this country getting up We have endeavoured to keep pace with the and saying that what we propose to do is increase in the productivity of the State, and wrong-- we have tried to anticipate the development llir. Aikens: We want improvements for of places snch as Mount Isa and ox our sugar the milways in the country instead of and wheat lands, and to plan accordingly. I facilities for Brisbane. · do not know of any comparable period in the history of the railways. No major proposal lUr. DUGGAN: I throw that statement that I have taken to Cabinet has ibeen into the teeth of the hon. member. I know refused; we have received the green light him; he is an old dog for a hard road. and have attempted to plan intelligently for When he made a speech this afternoon, of the future requirements of this State. W R the 15 minutes he was speaking five minutes have resumed land for marshalling yards and were devoted to the work of the State new workshops in various parts of Queens Children D'epartment and the other 10 land. We have bought land in the metro minutes to Tom Aikens. Good luck to him! politan area for bigger goods yards and I know that he will get up and speak about marshalling yards. To the extent to which the contract rates for the North and the dirty money is available to us, in every part of the slow trains and rail-motors and ask why they State we have endeavoured to make prudent have not been provided with sufficient venti and proper provision for the development of lation. I know the type of speech he will our railway system. vVe believe that a rail make and, as a matter of fact, I could way system cannot be judged purely on the without perhaps grave error say now ''In profits it earns. Away from the hurly-burly reply to the hon. member for Mundingburra, of political disputation, any fair critic must so-and-so.'' I can anticipate his remarks. admit that our railways have given a better I expect the hon. member for Mundingburra service generally to the public than any other to do and say these things and I am not railway service in the Commonwealth. We criticising him for that; I criticise only the have had less curtailment of services, we have absurd statements he makes. He, as an had no abandonment of sleepers, we have Independent, has to be before the public and cut out no long-distance trains, we have he likes to talk of the things he thinks the nrovided for the haulage of wheat and live public like him to talk of. I do not think stock, there has been no deterioration of that is an unfair statement to make of him primary products because of our inability to and I think it could be borne out by a move them, and there has been less disturb perusal of '' Hansard'' that what I have ance internally in our system. We have a said is true. reasonably contented railway staff. We have I think that in these matters we have to been able to anticipate difficulties by seeing be conscious of our responsibility and to that we do not over-reach ourselves. Ours have a general review of things and try to is the only system in Australia that has not do what we believe to be the !air thing for been obliged to engage in the wholesale the State as a whole. This Government have repudiation of contracts, both local and over no need to hang their heads in shame for seas. We have been able to meet in full our what they say is a fair and equitable alloca contractual obligations, both in this country tion of expenditure in all parts of the State. and overseas. In contrast, the Railway Department in New South Wales has already We spent money on reconditioning the dismissed about 5,000 employees in recent Almaden line. Can anybody tell me there months, but we in this State have not been was any political advantage in that~ It obliged to go in for retrenchment, and I resulted in an increased loss to the Railway think that is generally approved by the Department; we estimate that our annual loss business community. I was in Warwick the on that line, as the result of that expenditure, other day and some business men told me will be increased from £10,000 to £20,000. We they were glad we were not following other did that because we felt that the overall States in their policy of retrenchment. They requirements of the State, as distinct from a said. "We realise that the policy of sacking purely railway point of view, justified it. men results in a smaller turnover in the The Government thought that they had some business world,'' and they said they thought responsibility for moving stock in difficult we were doing the right thing. Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1489 I have purposely given a general review ·approaches to him on behalf of my con of some of the things I saw when I was stituents. I can truthfully say that I have o\·erseas and some of the impressions I gained. had nothing but courtesy extended to me Mr. Hall, the Chief Mechanical Engineer, although I may not have succeeded in al~ n;Y who accompanied me overseas, took a note representations. However, I can say this m of all the technical information that we favour of the Minister, that he has always thought might be of value to us in this indicated to me very fully why he found it State. \Ve were able to get certain infor impossible to accede to· the representations mation and to enter into certain contracts that I had made to him. Therefore I should eventually that led to a material saving by like to record my appreciation of his courtesy the department. In one contract alone we to me. were able to effect a saving in steel prices and to avoid an increase in freight from I was struck rather forcibly by certain Great Britain, which meant a saving of parts of the hon. gentleman's speech. He £75,000. In another case we were able to told us of certain things that he had noted induce the president of a New York company in the United States of America but he did to supply us with engines with an extra not say that all the railroad syst.e~s th~re 100 horse-power at no extra cost to us. The were under the control and admmistratwn savings we were able to make fully justified oi private enterprise. the expense incurred in sending Mr. Hall It is reasonable to assume that these :md myself overseas. We gained the impres railroad systems over the years mu~t sh~w sion that there is much we can do and should profits, otherwise the:J:" would :rot be m e.xis do in our own railway system as funds tence. It is very different m the Umted become progressively available and traffic States of America in comparison with our requirements demand them. But we must transport system because .in America there always be conscious of the need for a fair are railroads to every sectiOn of the na twn. balance in all these things, the capacity to In fact, it can literally be saicl that the provide the facilities, and the ability of the United States of America is criss-crossed people to pay the cost. with railways. I am sure that the Minister I therefore hope that those hon. members will agree that the railway systems there, who take part in the debate will do it in a over the years, have shown profit.able returns. spirit of constructive criticism. I do not I appreciate the fact that the railway syst:m mind if criticism is constructive and truthful of Queensland has rendered yeoman service and if it is truthful we will do all that we in the development of this State in the past possibly can to rectify any trouble. With a and that it will continue for many years to system of 27,000 employees you can hardly come to render a tremendous service, but expect the Commissioner, the secretary, or there are some aspects of it that occasion the Minister to be responsible for every deep consideration. dereliction of duty on the part of an In the 19 vears from 1931 to 30 .June, emplo,'ee. ThP great majority o.f them give 1950, the Loan Fund allocations of the a. fair day's work and are quite anxious to Railway Department were £18,753,267, an co-operate in maintaining this great instru average allocation of £987,014 per annum. mentality against criticism. Yet in 1951-1952 £6,448,189 was allocated from the Loan Funds to the department, If hon. members criticise the department inclusive of £3,243,538 for the purchase ?f itself and their criticism is correct we will rolling stock, of a total Loan Fund dis endeavour to take some corrective action. bursement for the year for the whole State I do hope that the debate will continue of £23,662,458. In other words a little along those lines, although the time available more than 27 per cent. of the total. loan for the purpose will be somewhat limited. allocation was allocated to the Rarlway I trust that hon. members will be conscious Department. Then we find that in 1952-1953 of the fact that the department gives an the Treasurer has budgeted a Loan Fund important service and that it is required to allocation to the department of £8,097,778, serve a very big State. \Ye have a large> an increase of £2,887,729 over that of the area with a sparse population and taking previous financial year. This allocation for all those factors into account we have nothing 1952-1953 represents nearly 38 per cent. of to be ashamed of in the financial adminis the total loan allocation for the whole of tration of the department or in the service the State, an increase over the previous year that it gives to the various parts of the State. of 11 per cent. As I indicated, t~Ie Loan Fund allocations for the 19-year penod from 1931 to 1951 were only :':987,014 per annum, lUr. EWAN (Roma) (5.52 p.m.): I appreciate the advice tendered by the Minister notwithstanding that in 1952-1953 we had an about the approach to this debate and his allocation of £8 097,778. Yet not one mile desire for constructive criticism. He says more of railway~ has been built! The Minis that he does not mind how trenchant it is, ter in reply might indicate the percenta~e so long as it is constructive. It is always my increase in the replacement cost of the rarl practice to offer constructive criticism and ways. I do not believe it would be 800 per that can be said of every hon. member on cent. or anything like that percentage, this side. The Minister promised that where though loan fund allocations indicate that the criticism was justified he would endeavour increase. to have requisite action taken. I am In 1951-1952 the department showed a loss deeply apprt>ciative of all the courtesy that of £3,508,244. 'Despite the tremendous he has extended to me in my various increase in freights and fares, it is estimated 1490 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. that for the year 1952-1953 the loss will be must be made by this and the Commonwealth approximately £5,000,000. Since the Socialist Governments to extend the existing railway Government assumed power, the accumulated links. Perhaps the most ~mportant is from losses from 1 July, 1932, have amounted to Dajarra to Camooweal and then on to Birdum. £13,900,380, including the £5,000,000 antici In answer to a question asked in this pated deficit for the current year. It looks Parliament the Premier said he had made as if the time were ripe to take stock of the representations to the Commonwealth Govern position. Without taking into consideration ment. What were those representations~ the £5,000,000 estimated deficit for the year Subsequently he stated in the Press and 1952-1953, we have an established deficit from in reply to my question, that the 1946-1947 to 1951-1952, inclusive. of Queensland Government could not bear any £8,900,380. This state of affairs cannot go of the cost of the building of such a railway on. Although we sympathise very sincerely link nor could they assume the responsibility with the present Minister, who assumed power of the running cost. If that is the concrete after the rolling stock had been battered proposal this Government put to the Com during the war period and when it was monwealth then South Australia will sucreecl necessary that many replacements be made, in having a line built from Birdum to Alice in view of the loan allocations it seems to Springs and the development of Queensland me that we are jumping out of the frying will be set back another 50 years. This will pan into the fire. Although we must acknow be the result of the lack of a concrete ledge the value of railways and the necessity proposal by this Government at this juncture. for an extension of them even though they The Commonwealth Government are fully run at a small loss-they are of great seized of the position. It is necessary for developmental value-it is absolutely essen development and for defence to build that tial that we have our railway system function railway and I suggest that this Government, ing efficiently, and that it be extended to if they are sincere in their endeavours to the undeveloped parts of the State. Deficits produce food, do something about building such as I have quoted cannot continue much this line. longer if this State is to remain solvent, therefore I suggest to the Minister, with all The Secretary for Agriculture and Stock due respect, that the time has arrived-he and the Secretary for Public Lands have has already referred to the fact that the told us we shall have 11,000,000 people in Ameriean railroad companies took advice from Australia by 1961 and it is necessary to various sections of the communitv-for the increase food production. If they built only Minister to set up a committee of business 50 miles of that line all that country would men, not theorists, to make a complete survey come into production. It would enable the of the existing methods of working the Barkly Tableland to be tapped. The tragedy railway system. of it is that no female cattle are ever I am not going to go too deeply into this marketed from that area. Thev die of old matter, but those of us who travel much age, rot and fertilise the soil. ·If there was on the railways have seen WOTkers emploved a railway line, when the cows became a by the department using antiquated methods. certain age they could be spayed and in a I have seen them putting posts along the very short time they would be fat cattle and railway fences by using a crowbar and shovel. all of them would have a market through I advise the use of modern methods, such this State. as a tractor with a post-hole machine on it and a boring machine for boring the posts. J.Ur. Collins: They are doing that now. Where a man might put in 30 or 40 holes :illr. EWAN: The hon. gentleman does a day, with the old method, with modern not know what I am talking about. The equipment a man could do anything from 400 hon. gentleman is talking about these areas to 500 posts a day. closer in but I am referring to the outback. lllr. Devries: With good sinking. Mr. Collins: I saw them. Mr. EWAN: With a post-hole boring machine you can bore through fairly solid lllr. EWAN: The hon. gentleman saw rock. If the Minister had any experience some culled cows. He did not see the old of the modern machine he would realise that. breeders coming in. They fertilise the I witnessed a demonstration by the Ford ground on the Barkly Tableland. If this Motor Co. in black-soil country through hard Government were sincere in increasing food clay-as hard as nails. I have had experi production they would take steps to build ence with the old crowbar and shovel in that perhaps 20 miles of that line in one year, country. Where a man would not do more and so on. They would certainly get help than 20 or 30 a day, the post-hole machine from the Commonwealth Government once was putting them down in nine seconds. They that Government realise that the Queensland should set up a committee of practical busi Government are sincere and prepared to ness men comprising engineers and others, devote a certain percentage of their own to investigate ways and means of getting money to an endeavour to increase food round the existing difficulties and modernising production. the means of replacements in the railways. l How long is it since this Government will not go further on those lines. approved of the Charleville-Blackall link? I suggest that in the interests of the Many years. What steps have they taken development of this State and the Common to construct it~ None at all. What about wealth as a whole and because of the neces the rail link from Cunnamulla to Bourke ~ sity to increase food production, every effort The Government are too parochial. They Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 149] will not look at the question from a national buffalo-meat, instead of being left to rot point of view. They do not want that line after the hides are taken from the beasts, because Queensland cattle would go to New could be tinned, because it is as good as any South Wales. They have had all these ·other meat for canning. This Government examples of exploiting the great Cooper must take cognisance of the position. Channel country; what have they done~ All Let us consider our opportunities for that is necessary is to continue the railway increasing food production. I have a letter line from Quilpie to Eromanga. That would written by Mr. R. A. Coleman, manager of get the cattle out. The Commonwealth Yorkshire Downs, Nelia, in which he says that Government have built a road out there. between N elia Siding and Barcaldine the That is very delightful to enable the Railway Department kept 5,189 starving sheep residents to drive to Quilpie but as an standing in trucks at Nelia nine hours longer economic method of bringing fat cattle out than was necessary. He goes on to say- it is absolutely valueless. This Government are failing in their duty. They have not '' The sheep were consigned from N elia influenced the Commonwealth Government to Siding to Barcaldine. We put the sheep build that railway. in trucking yards on the night of 3 July. Trucks were ordered for early morning on What have the Government done about 4 July. During the night 10 vans arrived Wandoan-Taroom? We have listened to lash and were shunted off on the goods-shed line. ings of wonderful stories about the fertility At 9 a.m. a tmin arrived with a further 13: of the land there. They are not even vans and one NB. After much shunting attempting to build a railway there, but, as they were placed in -position. This left 1 the Minister has stated, they will not forget NB missing as the order was for 23 N and the electrification of the Brisbane suburban 2 NB trucks. railways, and that has absolutely no defence ''The missing NB was -put into position or developmental potential. I believe the at 8.50 -p.m. I loaded the last 150 sheep· people of Brisbane are entitled to cleaner in the dark. The train left Nelia over 9 and swifter travel, but not at this time, hours later. This meant that starving sheep· when the country is crying out for develop stood in the trucks at N elia 9 hours longer ment. than necessary.'' Let. us consider the stock losses that have ''I travelled in one N.B. and mv occurred in the last two years. From drought assistant in the other. Neither of us had and other causes, we have lost 1,036,106 cattle anv water in the compartment. After and: 4,309,045 sheep. Taking the cattle at travelling to Richmond, some 60 miles, I £12 a head, this State has lost £12,433,272, asked for water. After much grumbling and if we add to that the loss of sheep at £2 I got it. One hour later it had all leaked a head we have a further loss of £8,618,090, a out. I again asked at Hughenden and the total of £21,051,362 for the last two years. same thing happened. Both compartments If the railway links were built it is reason were the same. My assistant complained able to assume that 33:} per cent. of those that the water in his compartment leaked losses would have been saved to this State. out before· travelling 20 miles. This means that in the last two years this ''Dead Sheep Too! State would have been saved £7,000,000, and over 10 vears the saving in stock would more ''I would like to point out that when than defray the cost of constructing these travelling with weak sheep you work at rail-links. every stop and handle both dead and live sheep. Also, a lavatory forms one end of ~Ir. Devries: Most of them were taken your seat or bed. The compartment by dingoes. measures about 7 feet by 3 feet 6 inches. No rail way refreshment II'Ir. EW AN: Has anyone ever heard rooms open for stock trains, so I and my such an absurd statement~ The Minister assistant were forced to eat and sleep in knows very well that what he says is not so. the lavatory from Friday to Sunday The Government have ample evid'ence, as sub without light or water. mitted to the royal commission, that if this link between Charleville and Blackall had "This is not unusual as I sent a train been constructed the saving in stock over the load of sheep south a few months ago and last 10 years would have more than offset two men travelled in one of these lava the cost. As a practical man I know that if tories as far as Gladstone without water the Dajarra-Camooweallink had been built the or light. No health inspector would pass saving to the Government in stock, in taxa these compartments.'' tion paid and employment provided over the I have another lette-r, written by Mr. J. S. last 10 vears would have been more than Kidman, of Bauhinia Park, Taroom, which enough to meet the cost of the link. reads- The fact that this Government have shown ' 'While the Queensland Government Rail a deficit over the years in their railway ways cannot transport cattle to Cannon administration is no reason why these links Hill faster than at the archaic rate of should not be constmcted if the State is to 8~ miles per hour it is hypocrisy for the be developed and we are to have increased Queensland Government to exhort cattlemen production. There are millions of acres out to adopt modern and progressive methods there capable of producing good beef. We of pasture improvement, fodder conserva· have hundreds of thousands of buffaloes out tion and crop fattening to increase beef there and if we had transport facilities that production. !492 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. "On October 14 I loaded five K wagon the things that are taking place in the United loads of fat cows at Wandoan at noon. States of America and in Great Britain. They were unloaded at Cannon Hill at 4.30 The only thing about which I wish to com p.m. October 15-after a journey of 240 plain at the present stage is that the Minister miles in 281 hours, or St m.p.h. was able to spend an hour and a-half ''My chief complaint is that a big per speaking about his visit-- eentage of these fat cows were graded as boners (due to excessive bruising) although Mr. DeYries: And a very good speech too. they were of the same breeding and quality and condition as others in the consignment lUr. CHALK: I am not denying that, which graded first and second grade cow but I am rather disappointed that Standing 'beef. Orders give me only 25 minutes in which to ''Of what us6 are the progressive views reply to some of the things that the Minister .()f the Minister for Agriculture and Stock raised, and also to discuss the Estimates and (Mr. Collins) regarding modern cattle to offer what I believe to be some constructive .husbandry, and ways to produce more and criticism of the operations of the Railway better beef if the antiquated transport Department. system run by his colleague, the Minister At the outset, I want to make one brief for Transport (Mr. Duggan), is going to comment. I cannot quite understand why at knock the beef back into boner class due this very late stage of the debate the Railway to bruising sustained in a St m.p.h. journey Estimates have been brought before thrs to market~ Chamber. ''The train in question was not exclu :sively a 'stock train.' But it comprised 11 lUr. Walsh: You talked for 13 days on trucks of cattle and one truck of pigs, in the Department of Health and Home Affairs. addition to timber, etc., and was the only lUr. CHALK: I am not going to be method of getting the cattle from W andoan brought in by the Treasurer on a discussion to Cannon Hill. as to how many days we had on the Depart "While cattle are in trucks they are ment of Health and Home Affairs. I suspect subjected to continual buffeting and bump that it is he, and not the Minister for ing. The position is worse when the train Transport or the Premier, who has been Btops for long periods such as the two responsible for having these Estimates hours' wait we had at Toowoomba, when brought before the Chamber. In 1946, when the cattle became restless and the bruising the Treasurer was Minister for Transport and is increased. Deputy Premier, he sang his swan song on ''Also a word for the drovers who truvel the Railway Estimates, and no doubt he with the cattle-and the cattle must be hopes-and hopes very sincerely-that history attended as was proved by the dead bullock will repeat itself. and one nearly dead in a truck which And now let me get back to the Estim3;tes. (unbeknown to the rest of us for some We on this side of the Chamber apprecrate hours) had no attendant. The compart the opportunity of discussing the Railway ments supplied with drovers on the train Estimates. If there is any department con had no lights, no water, and no lava trolled by the State that requires a thorough tories. The lack of lavatories, however, investigation, it is the Department of Rail is not a serious omission. The way Mr. ways. If the losses incurred by any depart Duggan 's trains are run there are ample ment are to bring bankruptcy to this State, opportunities for one to leave the train it is those that have been incurred by this and catch it up at the next siding.'' department. I have another letter from a man who Let us examine what we are going ~o do took cattle down to Tancreds' meatworks at this financial year. According to the vote, 'Tenterfield by train and it was found that we are budgeting for the expenditure from the percentage of beef graded down because Consolidated Revenue on administration, on {)T bruising was terrific. There is a remedy operation and on maintenance-and be for that, Mr. Farrell. The Minister, if he particularly careful to note that this does will take cognisance of the tremendous loss not include the purchase of new rolling stock oeaused by bruising, should endeavour to pro -the sum of approximately £26,000,000. vide more staff stations or passing stations And now let us see what we expect to and so avoid the hold-ups for great periods receive. According to the Estimates, from of time caused by stock trains waiting for an expediture of £26,750,000 we expect. to late trains to cross. receive £25,250,000 in return. The first thmg (Time expired.) that stares us in the face is that we are budgeting for a deficit of at least £1,500,000. lUr. CHALK (Lockyer) (7.34 p.m.): To that we have to add approximately Whilst at times I differ violently with the £2,000,000 for interest, so that tonight in this Minister for Transport and have on occasions Chamber we are telling the people of Queens J.n this Chamber raised his blood pressure a land that during the next 12 months our little, I want to say that I compliment him railway system 1vill require £3.500,000 for its {)n his introductory remarks in the presenta operations-not for the purchase of any ~1ew tion of the Estimates for his department rolling stock, but merely for the operatiOns the consideration of which began this of the railways. afternoon. He gave us an outline of his Let us bring it down to days. We are ()verseas visit and indicated to us some of telling the people of Queensland that we Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1493 expect a loss in the railways of £10,000 a day. Consequently we are not in a position to Or, if I take the milage figures of last year, place our finger on any particular section or we are budgeting for a deficit of 3s. 8d. for the railways and say, ''That is where we every mile that we operate a train in Queens believe 'the loss is" because we have not access land. At one time we used to refer to our to those records that will furnish the answer. railways as the ''Gone a million'' railways, I want to stress that if this loss was occurr but according to the Minister's figures and ing in any business organisation its adminis the Estimates we shall be referring to them trators would be immediately asked to do as the ''Gone five millions'' railways before something to reveal to the people just where the end of this financial year. that loss was occurring. Some information Let me make my position perfectly clear. should be obtainable inside the department Occasionally the Minister deliberately or to disclose why these losses a1 e occurring. otherwise twists some of the statements I I do not often praise a Labour Govern make. We nmst have railways if we are to ment but I am prepared tonight to hand progress and develop the State. There are some credit to the New South Wales Labour 1·ery few businesses or lines of production GoYernment for what they have done in the tln, t do not depend for their success to some last 12 months in connection with their rail extent or other on the successful operations ways while our Government and our depart of the railways, but if the railways are to ment' have sadly fallen by the wayside. I cost us a loss of £5,000,000 to £6,000,000 a will quote from the last report, tabled last year, the matter is so serious as to call for Friday in the New South Wales Parliament, prompt investigation. I am not advocating on the position of the railways there. For the the abandonment of the railways, but I am 12 months ended 1950-1951 the New S·outh saying that it is time there was a general Wales railways showed a deficit of £6,417,431. investigation and spring-cleaning in the Rail Queensland's railways in the same year way Department. The hon. member for Roma showed a deficit of £1,492,203, so that we repeated what I have said in this Chamber were a long way behind New South Wales. before, that we have reached the stage when But let us have a look at the position in a Committee should be appointed to investi New South \Vales during the last 12 months gate not one section of the Railway Depart and compare it with what has happened in ment but every section of it. No private busi Queensland during the last twelve months, ness could stand the losses that have occurred and then we might begin to think whether in the Railway Department in the last four we are administering our railways correc~ly or five years, and the question to be answered or not. In 1951-1952 the deficit on the New now is: when can the investigation begin~ South Wales railways was only £2,452,087. I know that many hon. members on both sides In other words, New South Wales effected a of the Chamber want to know that. They saving of over £4,000,000 in its operations want to know how our money is being spent on its railways in 1951-1952 compared with and how the losses are incurred. Above all 1950-1951. At the same time in Queensland they want to know wh(lt steps can be taken there was an increase in the deficit from to prevent them. Let us have a look at the £1,492,203 to £3,392,270. In other words, we :figures given to us in the Commissioner's more than doubled our deficit, while New annual report and in the Estimates. First of South Wales made a saving of over all the receipts, and by receipts I mean all £4,000,000. The turnover in the two States the money received by the department. When was about the same as the difference between I refer to expenditure I mean the cost of 50 and 100 per cent.; in other words, our turn traffic operations, maintenance, locomotives over in Queensland is about half that of costs, the cost of workshops running, and New South Wales. generally the expenditure incurred in the con I know the Minister for Transport will tell tinuance of the railway system. us that they raised their fares in New South Over the past 12 months the receipts for Wales. What have we done in Queensland the Southern Division amounted to during this period~ We have raised our £12,507,032 and expenditure to £12,717,900, fares too. What happened• in New South a loss of £210,868. In the Central Division Wales is something for which we commend! and Mackay Railway the receipts amounted the New South Wales Government. to £3,647,739, and expenditure to £5,236,947, a loss of £1,589,208. Mr. Jesson: They sacked so many thousands. Let us go to the Northern Division. There we find an entirely different position. The lUr. CHALK: I knew there was a receipts were £6,252,372, and the expenditure sucker in the Committee. According to the £5,370,465, revealing a profit of £881,907. hon. member for Hinchinbrook, they sacked Let us look at it in another way. We lost so many thousand, but this report is up to money on the Southern and Central Division 30 June and does not cover the period during railways while the Northern Division railways which there have been certain sackings from made money. We actually finished the year the Railway Department in New South showing a loss of £918,167, to which must Wales. be added £728,374, the administrative costs. What they did in that State was to hold Therefore, for the year's operations the rail an investigation within their department, ways lost £1,646,543 before we considered the exactly what we are advocating for the addition of interest on capital. Railway Department in Queensland. The Neither I nor any other hon. member has sooner we face the issue the better. Let access to information concerning the actual us have a look at what has happened in running of any Government department. New South Wales compared with what has 1494 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. ltappened in Queensland. Dealing with ton be able to iron out many of our transport nages and passenger journeys, we find that pro!Jlems. It is correct that wheat is being in New South Wales they raised passenger shifted from the Downs. It should be. But fares by 10 per cent., and it is correct to what is happening at present as regards the .say that during the 12 months there was a delivery of other goods to other areas~ If falling off in the number of passengers. the Minister wants it I will quote some They also raised the freights on goods traffic. information as regards availability of trucks But the point is this: for the 12 months for the transport of other goods. At the ,just ended the goods traffic in New South moment all that is being worried about is the Wales was approximately 1,000,000 tons more building up of this diesel. The Minister made than in the previous year. So it is very some reference to me as being the oracle -evident that New South Wales has at least from Lockyer. The hon. gentleman has earned .started along the right track. Queensland since for himself the name of ''Glamour Boy should take New South Wales as an example of the Railways'' because of these diesels. because it is just beside us. We heard the (Government laughter.) ~ Minister say that no railway system has been (Time expired.) able to balance its budget and he gave details of railway operations in the United lUr. WOOD (North Toowoomba) (7.59 States of America and many other countries p.m.) : It is very difficult to understand the but I suggest that he look over the border complaint of the hon. member for Lockyer. where he may be able to get much informa The Standing Orders allow him 25 minutes tion of assistance to him in bringing his but in that 25 minutes he did not make one •Own department into a better position. useful and sensible contribution to the dis cussion of these Estimates. I am satisfied On a previous occasion I made reference that the hon. member has so frequently made to the Ipswich Railway Workshops, and I fruitless attacks on the administration of the .am still of the firm opinion that quite a lot Railway Department and has received so ·of our trouble lies within the workshops. many ·batterings that he has become quite A Government Member: Who is your punch-drunk. stooge there~ One point in his speech particularly struck lUr. CHALK: Wouldn't you like to me and that was his gloating reference to the know~ As far as I am concerned I do not breakdown of the diesel rail-motor. Every need a stoodge; what I want I can get on hon. member who listened to him make that my ovm. When the Minister can stand in this remark could see the pleasure that the hon. ·Chamber and prove that something I said member derived from the fact that there was .about his department is wrong, I look for a mechanical defect in the diesel rail-motor. ward to that time. He did not tell the Committee t1tat because there was some water in the fuel this same But to get back to the Ipswich railway diesel rail-motor left Roma Street 27 minutes workshops. One of the greatest problems late but made up that time by the time it today is shortage of engine-power. The reached Grandchester and arrived at Minister and probably most hon. members Toowoomba three minutes ahead of time. If know that in Queensland there are over the hon. member derives satisfaction from 200-odd engines laid up awaiting repairs. the fact that there was a minor breakdown In the last week we have heard much about during the first run of this unit, he shows \Yhat is being done by dieselisation. I will very little evidence of statesmanship or real not deny that diesel-electric locomotives have desire to see the railway system of Queensland done a great job during the past week but I progress. I know that hon. members on both put it quite plainly before this Committee sides will agree that his criticism has gone that all the propaganda that is being put from irresponsibility to even greater irre olJver is for one purpose and that is to give sponsibility. This is admitted by the Opposi this new engine a great build up. I heard it tion by the fact that tonight they disrated .said in this Chamber that the first diesel him from his position as chief railway critic ·electric locomotive went up to Toowoomba and gave it to an equally irresponsible person in a little over four hours. I know it did in the hon. member for Roma. but I know how: there was not a train prac tically on the line at all and if a B.B. 18i While both those hon. members started off was given the same conditions and the same by saying they sought to offer constructive running facilities there would not be the criticism, we heard nothing constructive dur •comparison that is being made at the present ing the greater part of their contributions. time. The hon. member for Lockyer said we should have an investigation, but he did not say lUr. Duggan: The diesel-electric loco what should be investigated. He did not say n:otive has maintained schedule on every run there should be an investigation into the .-smce. administrative section, the work done by :illr. CHALK: I could tell the Committee the tradesmen, the rolling stock or the that the Minister's diesel rail-motor broke engines; he just loosely said, ''Give us an do:vn last Sunday at Murphy's Creek. But the investigation.'' Of what help could that be pomt I want to make is this: that if we can to the Minister, his departmental officers or .get from the Ipswich Railway Workshops as the people of the State~ many of the locomotives and much of the Over the past four years we have conducted rolling stock that are there we shall be able an intensive drive to modernise our railway not only to do this stunting that is being system and today we are seeing the result of done with the diesels at the moment but will that organisation by the Minister and his Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1495 officers. Let me assure the hon. member for 80-lb. rails, the strengthening of bridges and Lockyer that all these statements about the scores of other things are vital for the work done by the diesel-electric locomotives smoother running of trains, but the public are not just propaganda talk. I had the will go past miles and miles of newly-laid privilege of going to the Toowoomba railway railway, cross over newly-constructed and station to see the first of the diesel-electrics strengthened bridges, and not notice that on its trial run and the hon. member would these things represent the expenditure of have been enlightened if he had heard the many hundreds of thousands of pounds. When comments from the many hundreds of people they see improved railway stations, better who saw it. I moved about in the crowd and rolling stock, better engines and trains, they wherever I went I heard commendatory give credit to the department for what it has remarks passed by all sections of the com done. munity, which indicated to me that they It is no use coming into this Chamber and entirely discountenanced the criticism offered talking about blueprints. I remember the by the hon. member for Lockyer. time when the hon. member for Lockyer asked The thing that impressed me greatly was the Minister for Transport a question about the interest shown in the working of the the new diesel-electric locomotives and the diesel-electric locomotive by the railway men Minister answered him. He told him that the themselves. Running men, maintenance men, first consignment was already on the water, the clerical staff and workshops employees but immediately after that the hon. member all commended it. The universal comment was for Lockyer spoke about these blueprints that the Minister for Transport had done the which were actually locomotives on the water best thing that had been done for many years and now in service here. We have heard in railway administration and planning in enough talk by the Opposition. :>bout blue Queensland. The men who drove the train prints. They have become reahtres, and ":e said that in all parts of the route they saw see today that seven of these diesel-electnc workmen dropping their tools and coming out locomotives from America have arrived, and to look at the new locomotive. This interest another 13 are to come, 10 of which will be of illustrates the happy spirit that exists greater horsepower. Before long, in the next between the railway-men of Queensland and month or so, we shall see no blueprints but a their Minister. All the ''knocking'' of the hon. splendid air-conditioned train making its trial member for Lockyer will not have the slightest l'Un. I have had the privilege of looking over effect on the confidence that has been built the train; I went in company with the Minis up, and we of the Government are very proud ter and other hon. members, and an officer oi of the happy spirit of co-operation that exists the New South Wales Railway Department, today. the department held up to us as a mod:el by the hon. member for Lockyer. Any man who While the Minister was speaking, the hon. is not satisfied with the standard of comfort member for Sherwood said by way of inter that is provided by this air-con~itione~ _train jection that it would not be a bad thing if will be very hard to please. Thrs admmistra some of the lines in this State were closed tive officer from the New South Wales depart down. He was asked where he would recom ment said that thev had nothing to equal it in mend the closing of lines. :We on this side New South Wales. I know that every hon. hope that when he has the opportunity to member in this Committee who is sincere in state his case he will tell us what sections his determination to see that our standards in of the line in Queensland should be closed. this State are improved, will give tlie Minister It is very easy to talk about losses, and to and the Governinent every credit for the contrast our position with that of other detailed planning and resolution of purpose States-I know that the Minister will deal put into this fine air-conditioned train. It ;vrth that effectively-but it is very hard for shows the sympathy of the Government for hon. members opposite to lay down with any the people outback when we realise that precision exactly in what sections the Railway the first of these trains constructed by the Department is being badly administered or General Electric Company at Rocklea will where expenditure could be avoided. serve the people of the most remote part of The hon. member for Lockyer had a great the State between Townsville and' Mt. Isa. Of ~eal to say about the cutting of the deficit course, it is right that that area should ~ave m New South Wales, but he did not tell the priority and the Government have decrded the Committee that up to 31 October of this that tir~ Inland'er, which is the first to run. year the railway department in New South will serve the area beween Townsville and Wales had dispensed with the services of Mt. Isa. 5,754 employees. He did not tell us that, In the course of these Estimates much but, of course, that does not mean much to will be said in favour of the Railway him. We of the Government are proud' that Department, and we shall hear also criticism the Railway Department in Queensland has of it. I know the Minister well enough to been able to maintain its finGJ standard of know that when criticism is offered it ;vill be employment and at the same time increase its accepted in the right spirit. Nobody 01'1 this efficiency. side of the Committee is foolish enough to In the improved working of such a say that our railway system is perfection, or teriffic organisation as the Railway Depart anywhere near it, but at the same time ho_n. ;nent, which is easily the largest undertaking members of this Chamber should be brg m Queensland, there are many things which enough to admit that great strides have are not readily discernible by the public. For been made in improving our system and to instance, the relaying of track and the taking give at least some meed of praise where lip of 60-lb. rails and the putting down of praise is due. 1952-3B 1496 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. Mr. V. E. JONES (Callide) (8.11 p.m.) : of the State that I suppose do not take In speaking on this important vote, I intend enough money a year, to use the vernacular, to frame what I have to say in the way of to pay for the oil in the boxes on the waggons. a recommendation to the Minister to provide Nevertheless, these branch railways serve a an amenity that I believe is essential, par vital purpose in keeping the people there and ticularly on branch lines throughout the in bringing their food and taking away the State. Those of us who have travelled wool and the cattle and all the other vital extensively on the Queensland railways know primary products that are so necessary to that on all main lines station platforms the economic development and stability of have been built up, and at those stations it the State. If we are to close the branch is very convenient for passengers to alight lines that are losing money we cut across from trains. However, the position in the the very policy that has been enunciated so country is entirely different and I should hypocritically from time to time by the hon. like the Minister to give every consideration member for Lockyer and his political con to providing some amenity that would give freres. They contend with their to·ngues passengers on branch lines the opportunity in their cheeks as I contend in all sincerity of alighting in reasonable comfort. Most that we must do all that we possibly can, members of this Chamber will appreciate not only to keep the people in the back that we cannot expect the department to country but also to attract more and hold build up all station platforms in the country, them there. If we are going to look at the but we realise how difficult it is for aged Queensland railway system from the view and infirm men and women to alight from point of £ s. d. and close the unpayable trains where there is no raised platform. branch lines then instead of keeping people in If something in the form of steps on wheels the back country we are going to drive them was provided at all country stations-some away. thing that could be wheeled up to a Mr. Low: We are advocating extensions carriage-it would give these aged people every day. an opportunity of alighting in comfort. It is the people in the cc,tmtry who during Mr. AIKENS: The hon. member is recent years have had to bear increased rail advocating extensions every day. If he is, freights and fares, and I suggest to the he is doing it as a ghost walks-pre!ty Minister that he give every consideration to silently indeed. If that is really the pohcy this request. In that way he would be doing of the motley crew on the Opposition something to compete with the service that benches, for goodness sake try and drive t!he is given by air lines. Throughout the idea into the skull of the hon. member for country air lines have established very good Lockyer. Tell him that is their policy and services, and if such an amenity as I have if the hon. member is a competent secretary suggested was provided by the Minister for of the hotch-potch party opposite he shoul.d Transport, aged and infirm people would also try to tell other members that that IS probably use the railways more often. their policy. Let him put his own party right. That is my policy and the policy ?f llir. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (8.13 the party I have the honour to represent m p.m.): It is not often that I join forces this Chamber. Even if it costs us £10,000,000, with the Minister for Transport, and I want so long as there is no• extravagant and wast~ to say at the outset that neither I nor my ful expenditure and so long as the money IS union, nor very many people in North spent in a genuine and useful purpos~ ~f Queensland, arc particularly happy about the serving the back country of the State, 1t 1s way in which our railways ani run. Never £10,000,000 worth losing and £10,000,000 theless, I hope to have an OJ>portunity of well spent. discussing those aspects of the railway llir. Sparkes: Do you propose to spend Estimates on the Southern, Central and £10,000,000 in the electrification of the Northern Division votes as they come along. Brisbane railways1 I have always maintained that a State JUr. AIKENS: I would not spend one railway system such as ours should have as brass farthing on the electrification of ~he its first objective the development of the system in Brisbane t:ntil all the outlymg country. If we lose a few million pounds a areas of the State had a railway service year in the interests of the development of comparable with that of Brisbane at the the country, in my opinion that is money present time. If there is to be any better well spent. We hear from the Opposition ment of the railway system of this State, from time to time about the enormous losses let it be given to the people of the country. incurred by the Railway Department, and I Here again we have the hon. member for have no doubt that if the garrulous hon. Aubigny at cross-purposes with the hon. member for Lockyer had had enough time, member for Lockyer. The hon. member for he would have gone into meticulous detail Aubigny is not concerned about wasting to point out to this Committee every detail money on Brisbane railway services but, like of every loss on every branch line in me apparently, he is concerned only with Queensland. giving service to the useful people of this It is quite obvious to any person with a State. scintilla of intelligence that many of our li'Ir. Sparkes: The country people. branch lines lose money. There are lines in the Far North-west, where I come from-in the Mr. AIKENS: The country people, like district now represented by the hon. member the people I represent. The hon. member fOT Carpentaria-and in other outlying parts for Lockyer, who has never been more than Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1497 5 miles from the coast, cannot be expected being driven off the roads. I have no doubt to agree with the views of country men like that the hon. member or his double was d:own the hon. member for Aubigny and myself. in New South Wales attending the meetings . The Minister referred to- the re-laying of the of road hauliers and spurring them on to hne. from Almaden to Mount Surprise. action against the Government .and support Incidentally, I have to say, with my ing the people who were readily sacrificed in characteristic modesty, that I take full the interests of the New South Wales rail credit for goading the Government into ways. Then he comes here blowing out his doing that. I have no reason to doubt the bags and trying to tell us that the increased au.t~enticity of the figures given by the efficiency and ability displayed by the New Mmister to the effect that the line is losing South Wales department should be extend:ed more money now since the running of steam to Queensland. I wish that the Government locomotives over it than it did when the would do so but I know they have not the department used to run the old diesel rattle- guts. The hon. member gave us the revenue trap over it. Notwithstanding that loss in of the railways in this State and then held up running steam locomotives to Mount Surprise, as an example the New South Wales depart there has been a considerable saving to this ment which had increased its revenue by driv country in thousands of pounds of beef. In ing off the road motor hauliers who used the past cattle came in from these districts roads parallel to the railways. -to the northern meatworks as ema-rri"'acOt~eO>d~~~I'f.--..rnuw-wanno devote myself to my bel:uvelt stores but after the reconditioning of North. From the figures quoted by the hon. the line and the running of the steam member for Lockyer-I really hope they are locomotives the cattle came to the northern true-the Northern Division last year carried meatworks as fats. Therefore the recondit- the Central and Southern Divisions on its ioning of the line to Mount Surprise was in back, just as it does in all other ways carry the national interest. Even if we do lose a this decadent and over-populated city on its few paltry lousy pounds, the money spent on back. the reconditioning of the line has been lllr. Ewan: What about the West? money well spent. H · lUr. AIKENS: The whole of the North- ere agam I am astonished at the attitude West is included in the North. '\Vhen of the hon. member for Lockyer and I cannot believe that the party opposite has sunk to I refer to the North I do not do so in a such depths of mental degeneracy that he parochial spirit. I do not refer to Cairns, can pretend to speak for them all. We Townsville or Mackay as the North; they are receive requests-and when 1 speak of , , we,, embraced in the great North, which has I mean the Go-vernment. God forbid that I carried and which will continue to carry this should ever be found associating with the over-grown rat-ridden city of Brisbane until G overnment on all things. Every year the we get sufficient Northerners in Parliament Government have applications from all to hold the balance of power. gro?ps represented by hon. members opposite It was interesting to hear the Minister, in ask~ng for rebates on starving stock, reply to a question of mine and the repre- askmg for rebates on fodder, asking for sentations I made on behalf of northern rebates on stud bulls, asking for rebates on associations, state that his previous promi8es everything carried to the country. had all gone by the board. For some years vYe have been told by the Minister that repre- I agree with the Minister that in extenuat- sentations made not only by me but b~, the ing circumstances they are entitled to those Country ·women's Association and other rebates but as honest sensible people we organisations who have the interests of the should ask the Opposition whether they expect women and children at heart were receiving it both ways. We should ask the hon. member consideration, and we really did believe that for Lockyer whether he wants the Railway they were to be granted. My policy is to look Department to give all these rebates in an after the women and kiddies; the bucks can endeavour to maintain the industries of the look after themselves. (Laughter.) The country or whether he wants the department Minister told us that on the Sunsh-ine train and ~o refu~e all these rebates and simply run the new air-conditioned trains there would Its service as a business concern. Does he be a special compartment for women and want the department to be run on a cold children and he half promised us that there hard, callous £ s. d. basis or does he want it would be a special attendant to look after jud~ed' on the work it does for this country, the women and: children. I think he said on particularly for the useful work it does for another occasion that there would also be a the people in the back areas? liquor bar on the train. In reply to my The hon. member for Lockyer mentioned the question recently he said that there was fact that the railways in New South Wales now going to be no special provision for the had been able to make a rather remarkable women and children, on the air-conditioned recovery this year, compared with last year. and diesels, because the general comfort of There again it gives me the greatest pleasure the train will be enough comfort for the to expose the slobbering hypocrisy of the women and children. I presume he will still hon. member. The Railway Department of leave the liquor bar on the train. If he does, New South Wales was able to turn in a better I think he should hang his head in shame. financial return this year compared with last Let us scrap the liquor bar and replace it year, because last year it drove motor-trucks with a special compartment for women and off the road. It crippled motor transport. children, staffed not with a bar attendant but Meetings were held all through New South with a woman to look after the women and Wales to protest against motor transport's children. 1498 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. I regret veq much that the Minister, for God strike my wife dead." (Laughter.) some reason known to himself-I wish he ]'hat is the attitude of the Labour Party and would disclose it-has seen :fit to scrap this the Liberal Party to the development of special provision made as a result of repTe North Queensland. When one fellow tells a sentations from all bodies in the North. I lie he expects us to blame it on the other think there is nothing more distressing when fellow, irrespective of political complexion. tTavelling than to see a woman with 3, 4 or 5 children having to scramble out to the various In the Federal Parliament at that time a refreshment rooms to get milk and' sand Liberal-Country Party Government were in wiches for the children. Let us look after power. I do not know exactly what their them :first, and let the drunks look after them name was then, but they were the same group selves. (Laughter.) That is my attitude. as now masquerade as the LibeTal-Country Party. The State Labour Government }fr. Sparkes: You are going to have a promptly passed the buck to the Liberal lean time. Country Party in Canberra, and said, "~e will build a line to Camooweal if you Will Mr. AIKENS: I have not had a drink build a line to Daly Waters, Birdum, and foT seven years; I got tired of buying the goodness knows where.'' The Federal hon. member for Aubigny free beer, and in Government passed the buck back to the the interests of my own pocket I knocked off State Government, and in the process of the booze. If the hon. membeT knocks off buck-passing the seoond World War occurred. being a hum, I might start drinking again. (Laughter.) That was the end of all railway lines, although the hon. member for Carpentaria Let me deal with the hypocrisy of the and all who know the back country will Queensland Labour Government in regaTd to support me in saying that had that railway the Dajarra-Camooweal railway pr·oposal-and line been built it would have made a nobody knows it better than I do. Let me tremendous difference to the defence of give a few facts. Away back in 1912-1914 there North Queensland and all of Australia was an agitation foT the Dajarra-Camooweal during the second World War. In 1941 the railway, and it ran its little course-shot Federal-Liberal-Country Party Government across the political sky like a meteor-and scuttled for their nearest funk-hole, and the went into obscurity. It was resurrected in Federal Labour Government took charge. Townsville in 1934 by a committee of which The war ended in 1945 and I immediately I was a member. •We formed a public com brought up in the House the question of the mittee known as the Dajarra-Camooweal Rail Dajarra-Camooweal railway. Hon. members way Committee and by agitation among the can look at "Hansard" and they will :find northern people we :finally prevailed on the that I virtually bombarded the then Premier Government to appoint a Royal Commission. with questions and supplications with regard If I remember rightly, the Gte Mr. 0 'Keefe to the construction of that railway. Because was chairman, and the late Kerry Copley was they had a Federal Labour Government in a member of it. The commission came to control this Government could not pass the 'l'ownsville and heard evidence. I gave buck. Apparently it is not politically ethical evidence before it, as did many other genuine for a State Labour Government to pass the northerners. ''The Townsville Daily Bul buck to a Federal Labour Government, any letin'' was bitterly opposed to it. The com more than it is politically ethical for a mission went to various western centTes and Liberal-Country Party State Government to returned a report to the Government recom pass the buck to a Liberal-Country Party mending that the railway line to Camooweal Federal Government. The State Labour be built from Dajarra. Government marked time. They had no-one The hon. member for Carpentaria, who to whom they could pass the buck. They ~nows as ~uch about that country as I do, could not pass it on to Curtin, or later. t? If not a little more, will tell you that that Chifley, because they were of the san1e politi is the only sensible route. If you take it from cal c·olour. Like Brer Fox, they lay low and Mt. Isa you will get rough country till you did nothing, but the moment the Chifiey get almost to Camooweal, whereas from Government were defeated in 1949 the State Dajarra you have a little bit of rough Labour Government saw another glorious country and then it is all good' country to opportunity to pass the buck and resurrected Camooweal. The commission knew this and the Dajarra-Camooweal railway. That game recommended in the report that the railway of passing the buck is going on. They have line be built from Dajarra to Camooweal. passed the buck to the Federal Liberal In N orthem Queensland we suffer from the Country Party Government and if by some eternal and continuous ''buck-passing'' strange pass or another-it would be a between the Labour Party and the Liberal tragedy of devastating proportions-the Country Party in the State and Federal Liberal-Country Party got contr·ol of the spheres. It does not matter what Parliament Government in this Parliament they would they happen to control, they all try to not pass the buck to Canberra, because the pass the buck to the other. I wiU repeat Federal Government are the same political the tale of the alien and his wife in a colour as themselves. (Opposition inter little mixed business in North Queensland. jections.) They caught him for a minor breach and An Opposition Member: We would build he was in the witness box and the the railway. magistrate, impressed by his accent, asked him whether he understood the nature of an 1\Ir. AIKENS: You would not knock a on th, and he replied, "If I telleth the lie, maggot off a chop. You would build nothing. Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1499 We in the North know that we cannot trust with a fractured shoulder blade from the the Liberal-Country Party, any more than pats I receive from hon. members of the we can trust the Labour Party with regard Government. If I make a speech the next to the development of the North. We know day in exactly the same manner and it we cannot trust either of them. We know happens to meet with the approval of the there is only one chance of getting the Liberal-Country Party, I have to get out of Dajarra-Camooweal railway line and that is the way before the heavy-handed members by putting into this Parliament genuine such as the hon. member for Warwick, the North Queensland Labour Party members hon. member for Roma, and the composite who will hold the balance of power and secretary, the hon. member for Cooroora, can force the Government, in order to retain get a slap at my back, otherwise I should go their office, to get on with the job. home with an injured spine. That is the position as it stands today The concluding portion of my speech to with regard to the Dajarra-Camooweal rail night is a frank exposure of the hollow way. The Labour Government here are now hypocrisy of both the Liberal-Country Party in a happy position. One can see the and the Labour Party with regard to the benevolent smirk on the face of the Minister development of the North, so that I shall for Transport-a rather handsome one, too. not have to dodge the back-slapping of either He well deserves the sobriquet of Glamour side. I shall sit down, probably with only the Boy of the Railways. He is a very nice vociferous applause of the hon. member for chap and a very approachable Minister. One Burdekin, who is a genuine North Queens can see him grinning any time we put a lander, but I shall sit down confident in the question to him on the Dajarra-Camooweal knowledge that I have done a good job for railway, and saying, ''It is a Federal matter. northern Queensland and finally I point out I will refer it to Mr. Menzies and Mr. that the North Queensland people care for Fadden.'' Let the Menzies-Fadden Govern neither the approbation nor the criticism of ment be defeated in the next Federal elec the Liberal-Country Party or the Labour tion and if this Government still retain the Party, because, in their opinion, and mine, Treasury bench in this State they will not they both stink. pass the buck to the Federal Government of their own political colour, but will Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba conveniently forget the Dajarra-Camooweal Minister for Transport) ( 8.38 p.m.) : We railway. At present, everyone is in favour have listened with a measure of amusement of that railway, and if everyone is in to the contribution to the debate from the favour, why the hell is it not built~ Let hon. member for Mundingburra. It is true us stop talking and get on with the job. that at the outset he used his undoubted vituperative powers for the purpose of An Opposition Member interjected. directing criticism at the hon. member for Lockyer and the hon. member for Roma but, lUr. AIKENS: I thought I told hon. with that irrepressible optimism of his, and members. It is not that they don't know, in accordance with his usual methods of because although they are not ·over-burdened making speeches in this Chamber, he then with intelligence and perspicacity, neverthe took us on a Fitzpatrick travel t0ur of less they must be able to see the unfortunate North-western Queensland and did tonight position in North Queensland with regard exactly what he did this afternoon. This to the Dajarra-Camooweal railway and many afternoon he spent about five minutes on the other developmental projects in that part of Vote for the State Children, and 10 minutes the State. on himself, and this evening he has spent Both political parties, prayed for the day, about 10 minute·s on the railways and 15 such as today when the Government of the minutes on what a magnificent representative State were of a different political colour the electors of Mundingburra have sent to from the one at Canberra, so that they could this Parliament. There is still some· hope each pass the buck to the other and let the for democracy in the thought that in these North go without-let the North starve. I difficult times, vvhen so many problems need know that one or two hon. members opposite to be resolved, in at least one constituency could not have worked that out for them in the democratic Parliaments of the British selves, although it is quite obvious, even to a Commonwealth there is one man who knows halfwit, nevertheless I thought that I should the answers to all the questions. If he· derives let them know those facts, just as I thought satisfaction from being in that position, he I should let them know that neither the is entitled to preen himself on possessing all Liberal-Country Party nor the Labour Party the occult powers he thinks he has been is fooling the people of the North with regard blessed with to a high degree. to the Camooweal-Dajarra railway. What has been said on this vote that would ~Ir. Low: This is one of your worst merit my reply~ As is customary, those hon. speeches. members who have- been selected to speak on behalf of the Opposition, have chosen to lUr. AIKENS: I do not know that my give mouth to assertions about the obsolescent method of delivery ever alters, I do not know railway instrumentality we have, about the that my voice production or anything else inefficient way in which the utility is adminis ever changes, but I occupy a peculiar posi tere-d and the need to inject ne~ ideas, new tion in this Parliament because one day I rolling stock, new personnel and new manage make a speech and, because I say some ment and to have the whole of our system thing in favour of the Government, go home vetted by a group of so-called business men. 1500 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. Let us examine these charges as they have member for Roma would not have made that been made. The first criticism made by the careful analytical examination of the require hon. member for Roma was that a dispro ments of further links in this State but would portionate amount of the total loan funds have slavishly followed Mr. Bednall. made available to the Queensland Government And then we had all this business about had b-een devoted to the Queensland railways. buck-passing. I listened to the speech made On the one hand you have the Opposition by the hon. member for ~und~ngb~rra a?-d saying that we have obsole·scent railway stock, I thought that instead of bemg ~n this Legis hon. member after hon. member rising and lative Assembly I was attendmg a rodeo. asking for more cattle wagons. more loco There was so much bucking going on an_d I motives, more railway buildings, improved expected to see the hon. memb~r fo~ Mund~ng track, better platforms, air-conditioned trains, burra ride in on his bronco With his Mexiean hostesses on the air-conditioned trains, and spurs and jodhpurs givin_g. a superlative everything else, and on the other hand they exhibition of buckjump ndmg because I criticise us for having a certain percentage should say that he excels in this direction, of the total loan money allocated for railway as he says he excels oratori_cally. In. regard rehabilitation purposes. It is difficult to to the Dajarra-Camooweal-Budum railway I follow hon. members. challenge the hon. member for Ram~ to prove The hon. member for Roma said that not that the Premier has said that this Govern-"' one mile of railway was built by this Gov ment will not pay anything towards the ernment. That is untrue, because we built ea pi tal cost of the project nor will they some miles on the Mount Morgan deviation accept any of the operating expenses. We and spent considerable sums of money on have not said anything of the kind. that link but, contemporaneously with that expenditure we have had strong submissions :ttlr. Ewan: He was quoted in the being made that we should not use the Press as saying that. instrumentality but that the coal should be Mr. DUGGAN: I challenge the hC!n. moved by road. And then we had the hon. member to produce evidence that the Premier member for Roma saying the Government had said that. We believe that the development lost touch with the requirements of the people of the Northern Territory is a Common in the grazing industry. He said that if this wealth responsibility and if the whole of was not so we would have built several links the people of Australia are to be ~erved by to various parts of the State. He went on beef produced in the Northern Ter~Itory and to speak about the road that was built from if rail links are to be built to provide people Quilpie to Eromanga, which was financed by in South Australia Victoria, and New South the Commonwealth Government, and said Wales with beef,' they should be national that they spent more than £200,000 on this projects, as the Snowy River project is con road and that it was another waste of public sidered a national project. We in this State, money because it enabled graziers to drive and I as a taxpayer, have no objection to in their cars to Quilpie. If that is to be the paying our percentage of taxation towards basis of examination of the expenditure of the cost of the Snowy River scheme, although public money I think it is time he directed directly Queensland will derive no benefit criticism at his friends in the Federal Gov from that project, on which the Common ernment because they ·,made the £200,000 wealth Government propose to spend a sum available. If it was a wasteful expenditure of money variously estimated at between of money, why not direct criticism against the £100,000,000 and £200,000,000. Commonwealth Government for spending that sum of money on the road that is not availed I have before me the report of the Bureau of for the movement of stock1 of Investigation of Land and Water Resources, Technical Bulletin No. 1, which One of the hon. member's supporters in deals with the Channel Country of South-west the Maranoa electorate, a gentleman who is Queensland. It is shown in this report that very noted for asking for the construction of of the total turn-off of cattle in the Cooper railway links, has a property in the South Creek country, 82 per cent. go to places other west of Queensland but does not send one than Queensland. Forty-two per cent. go to bale of wool over the Queensland railways. New South Wales, something like 18 per cent. How in the name of goodness can he justify go to South Australia, and the balance go to the expenditure of hundreds of thousands of Victoria. pounds of public money when immediately a rail link is constructed some of the people do Mr. Ewan: You do not suggest that would happen in the case of cattle from the not elect to use the railways~ That is exactly what is being done in that part of the State. Tableland~ Going further with the hon. member's Mr. DUGGAN: A considerable propor speech, I might say that he mentioned a tion of it would go either there or overseas. matter principally because the Press has given If it came to canning works in North publicity to it. This seems to be one of the Queensland it would be killed there. It projects that Mr. Colin Bednall of "The would also be processed, chilled or frozen Sunday Mail'' is particularly concerned there and would go to swell our overseas about, the building of the Dajarra-Birdum export trade. rail link. I am not critical of him because Mr. Sparkes: That would be a good he is entitled to express his views and I am thing. in accord with most of the views he exprelised. If Mr. Bednall had suggested that other Mr. DUGGAN: I am not denying that railway links be built in Queensland the hon. it would be a good thing. Only a fool would Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1501 deny that. In the interests of national would pay a higher charge because they development, in the interests of national pro have a certain facility~ We know that in duction, and in the interests of defence, we certain parts of the State where the Railway should do all we possibly can to preserve Department refused to accept the responsi our northern parts. That is one stand that bility of providing certain facilities, such as this Government have taken, and will con trucking yards, the graziers, for their own tinue to take. We will refuse to budge from convenience, have at times provided or main the position that we have no objection to tained them. In some cases they pay a the principle of the standardisation of rail royalty or other charge, and in other way gauges if the Commonwealth Govern instances they refuse to pay it, on the ment build a rail link from the Territory ground that it is the responsibility of the to our eastern seaboard. This is the only Government to provide them. State in Australia with a succession of first The hon. member went on to say that the class ports along its seaboard. We have Brisbane, Gladstone, Rockhampton, Mackay, Government had done nothing in the matter Bowen, Townsville, and other ports, whereas of constructing railway lines, but let me no other State in the Commonwealth can remind him that in the last 10 years New point to more than two major ports. Some South Wales took up 14 miles of railway of them have only one. If it were not for track; Victoria, a Tory-governed State, took the fact that previous Governments in this up 59 miles of track; South Australia, State built railways inland from the coast, another Tory-governed State, took up four we should never have been able to mount miles of track; Western Australia, another the offensive that enabled us to throw the Tory-governed State, took up 153 miles of Japanese back in the South Pacific and even track; Tasmania, a Labour-governed State, tually defeat them. At the present time took up 29 miles of track; and Queensland, very powerful interests at Canberra are 6 miles of track. In the brief period during trying to influence the Federal authorities which the Government favoured by the hon. not to build as a first priority a rail member were in power, that is, from 1929 link from Dajarra to Birdum, but to to 1932, they took up 38 miles of track. In give priority to a link from Birdum 10 years we have taken up six miles of track to Newcastle Waters. Those interests and built a considerable milage in deviations, are operating very stron~ly and they but in three years of Godfrey Morgan rail have considerable backing in the Federal way administration they took up 38 miles of Cabinet. Interests such as Vesteys have had track. We talk about history repeating a virtual monopoly over the cattle industry itself. I have been charged with operating in the Northern Territorv and have refused an obsolescent railway undertaking and with to accept their responsibilities as land-owners. furnishing wrong ideas in the modernisation They have taken fat profits out of Australia of railway policy. But what happened when and have not put back into their properties Godfrey Morgan was Minister in charge of in the Northern Territory the amount of the railways W What was his idea about money that a prudent landholder would modernising rolling stock~ All he could ordinarily be expected to put back. We conceive was to ride a horse down the should resist with all the vigour at our com slippery bitumen road in George Street. mand this action of certain powerful financial ''Back to the Horse'' was his slogan. interests that are endeavouring to influence Then the hon. member for Roma said that the Federal Cabinet to give No. 1 priority last year the railways had lost £3,392,000, to a railway link from Birdum to Newcastle and he referred to what he called the tragic Waters. method of accountancy and the tragic If the Commonwealth Government are methods of business in the administration. willing to give an undertaking on the basis Let me remind him of the revenue collected that I have outlined, I am confident that this last year-and I take no particular satis Government will play their part in trying faction from this. Let it be remembered, to provide the · balance of the finance too, that the Moore Government reduced the required. capital of the railways by £30,000,000. Last Then the hon. member for Roma went on year the loss on the railways amounted to to talk about catastrophic losses in drought 18.9 per cent. of the total revenue received. periods. Nobody would be foolish enough to What was the position in the regime of this express satisfaction at the fact that so many heaven-sent financier in the Moore Govern of our stock die in drought periods. The ment. Mr. Godfrey Morgan, who was sup hon. member made some calculations to show posed to know how to manage railway that these links would be paid for in two or affairsW What was the position in his day, three or four years. when there was plenty of labour, when men Mr. Ewan: Ten years. competed with their bodies for a pittance of food and had to travel for miles throughout Mr. DUGGAN: Even ten years. The the length and breadth of the State to get hon. member mentioned the :figure of a miserable ration ticket to keep body and £7,000,000 at one stage. Who is going to pay soul together~ They were the days of plenty thaH Is he going to make that a levy of material and plenty of labour-plenty of against the graziers who have lost their stock, skilled personnel too. The losses on the or is it to be a community charge~ railways in 1929-1932 amounted to 22.7 per It is all very well to talk about cent. of the total revenue. In 1930-1931 it arithmetical losses. Are we to assume that was 25.2 per cent. and in 1931-1932 it was the graziers whose stock were saved would 21.8 per cent. On those figures hon. mem pay a royalty for this purpose, or that they bers opposite stand indicted and convicted. 1502 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. That was what their own Government did to conceal. It was said that the diesel and in times that were much easier than they electric engine we sent to Toowoomba was are today. not the one that we got from America, that it was constructed at Rocklea or New South Let us take into account some of the other Wales. Then another man came along stat allegations that have been made by hon. ing that the cowling had been taken off the members opposite. The hon. member for rail-motor to allow of its safe passage Lockyer was a little more restrained in his through the tunnels on the Toowoomba criticism today than he usually is. Range. I have not heard of that being lUr. Ewan: Look at page 921 of the done, nor have I heard of any deviation Votes and Proceedings. being made on the Toowoomba Range to enable these diesel locomotives to negotiate lUr. DUGGAN: I have no television. the track safely to Toowoomba. They safely All that I can do is to hear what the hon. negotiated the tunnels through the Range. member says, and I have answered some of The gross ton-mile pc>r freight train-hour, the silly charges that he levelled against the that is, actually in traffic, is a recognised administration. He said that we should have yardstick throughout the railway world for businessmen to run the department. That measuring the work performed by the idea percolated through the Stevens Govern various classes of engines. The figures out ment some years ago and they selected Mr. lined above indicate that the diesel-electric W. J. Cleary to manage the railways. He locomotive on the up journey from BrisbaNe was the manager of Tooths brewery, a to Toowoomba, based on the unit mentioned, business that was regarded as being the performed one hundred per cent. more work most efficiently conducted private enterprise than tha steam locomotive C19, i.e., C19 4329 at the time. I do not know off-hand what gross ton miles per freight train hour com their £1 shares were bringing on the Stock pared with 8712 diesel-electric. On the down Exchange but I should think in the vicinity journey the diesel-electric performed 69 per of 60s. That indicates very definitely that cent. more work than the C19, i.e., Cl9, they had a premium of about 300 per cent., 6193 gross ton-miles and the diesel-electric so it must have been regarded as a solidly locomotive, 10484. run business and profit-earning concern. Mr. Cleary was to introduce modern business The result .of the introduction of the methods into railway administration. The diesel-electric locomotives is the equivalent of Government paid him £5,000 a year to run 800 additional wagons being made available the railways, but he made such an unholy for wheat and other traffic on the Darling mess of them that he subsequently asked to Downs. So efficient has been the hauling by be relieved of his contract. That is the these diesel-electrics th.at goods are piling up type of thing the hon. member says we must at Pinkenba and other stations from the adopt for successful business! Then he says Downs ·and elsewhere at a greater rate than we must not interrupt the business of the they can be handled. The cost of these country. locomotives is more than met by the greater availability of wagons, and that we have the I am not revealing any confidence when equivalent of 3.5 per cent. of stock is not I state that the hon. member brought to my because of the additional purchase of rolling attention the other day the fact that a stock but because of the quicker haulage by certain grazier in the Roma district would the diesel-electric engines. appreciate it if we made a certain number of railway trucks available to transport his lUr. Aikens: How many diesel-electric wool to Brisbane in order that he might engines have you~ have an opportunity of linking his wool up with the February wool sales. I told him 1\Ir. DUGGAN: We have three, and hope we would make special efforts to meet him. to have four in a day or so. It is true that I sent him information that trucks would be some slight delays occur. "The hon. member made available. We instructed the Super for Lockyer giggled like a schoolgirl, instead intendent of Traffic at Roma that trucks of conducting himself as an adult male, would be made available and he informed because a diesel rail-motor train had the grazier accordingly. The grazier told experienced some delay at Murphy 's Creek. him that he was sorry that because the road Some little trouble was experienced. A fuse haulier was more interested in carting wheat in one of the units blew out, but it was on the Downs than carting his wool into fixed up in a matter of a few minutes. Roma he would not require the trucks as he had to dump the wool in his own backyard Unfortunately these things do happen. I instead of the railway station. went up the other day to Mr. Russell's mill at Warwick. He is a business man for whom Let us deal with the hon. member for I have a high regard. Mr. Russell got an Lockyer. Tonight he was much more engineer out to design that mill which is restrained in his criticism, and he was also regarded as the most modern in Australia, less personal in his attack. I have no com but when it came to a demonstration it plaint about hon. members who criticise the would not work, because of the need for some administration if they have some good minor adjustment, which was corrected later. ground for it, and when they do that it is One of the principal Toowoomba road our obligation to examine it. He said that operators had four crank cases broken that we were trying to glamorise the diesel cost £500 per unit. The hon. member for electric locomotives and the diesel rail Mirani told me that his sugar mill which motors. They are not things that we want installed new machinery had tests for a Supply. [25 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1503 week and the :first time they had it in ~Ir. DUGGAN: We have not left operation there were hot bearings. These hundreds of thousands of people stranded; things are inseparable from units of we have not curtailed our trains. machinery when they are :first brought into operation. Motor manufacturers will give I continue: 1,000 miles warranty and the diesel engine ''Big Rail Freight rise planned. Wheat people will give 5,000 miles warranty. up 150 per cent.'' What did the hon. member say we should ''Why the railways cancelled 4,500 trains do about our railways, apart from reinforcing last year.'' the idea of the hon. member for Roma to ''Disastrous decline in efficiency of New bring 'in a panel of experts~ He saad, South Wales transport.'' "Follow New South Wales; do what they do." I have some papers here and I will Is that what the hon. member for Lockyer deal with the headings on them, and wants us to do~ We have· no intention of I w1ll ask hon. members, after I read making application for a reduction in mar them, whether they want me to do as they gins. We have no intention of sacking are doing in New South Wales. They had 5,000 men. We believe there is need, in the occasion to sack 5,000 men. They asked the rehabilitation of our system, to use all we Commissioner to consider applying to the possibly can and to use these men gainfully. Industrial Court for the abolition of margins If we have a contented service we shall get the unions won as a result of long agitation. good service from these people. We have In some cases the Transport Board asked the £lone all we possibly can to meet the staff to make voluntary contributions of situation. We are not complacent but we are their wages to loans to enable wages to be entitled to fair criticism and a fair met each week. They have, as the hon. examination of what we have done. member fm Mundingburra stated, brought I would recall here that last year the New in penal conditions in regard to the movement South Wales department received £800,000 of goods by road. as a contribution from the Treasury towards These are the type of headlines we see in the losses on the working of country develop ''The Sydney Morning Herald'': mental lines. Under the State Transport ''Many stranded by Transport Cuts. Co-ordination Act of 1931 contribution is "Many passengers were stranded last night made to the railway funds in respect of the when the Transport Department discon operation of road-motor vehicles. We do not tinued all-night Sunday tram and bus have that in Queensland. It does not come services . . . . . " into the railway funds but goes to Consoli dated Rev en ne. ''Orders for Locos, Trains cancelled.'' ''Better railways and sleepers needed.'' The Victorian Department's loan liability ''Depression in railway business.'' was reduced by £30,000,000. They had 1 per cent. interest on their capital investment ''Higher railway freights and fares. written off and they received a subsidy of Rates up 15.35 per cent next month.'' £143,000 to make good the loss in revenue ''Crippling rate of high Transport due to freight reductions by Government costs.'' direction. In _spite of that they had a ''Colossal job for railways.'' colossal deficit last year. Only for the help ''Premier concerned at basic-wage rise. I have mentioned they would have been Wants system reviewed. ' ' involved in a revenue loss of £12,000,000. ''Many big works may be delayed.'' South Australia has had a deficit but that '' £5,750,000 loss on transport.'' is just a small suburban system compared ''Transport efficiency has been declining to ours. Last year the-ir deficit was £5,000,000. steadily.'' Considering the ramifications, the mileage ''Transport problem serious.'' and the problems we have, we have not shown ''Freights rise recommended.' ' anything but prudence in management. ''Crisis New South Wales Transport The hon. member set out what New South :finance.'' Wales is doing. All right, if hon. members '' 21,569,000 fewer passengers suburban opposite will undertake to honour the hon. area.'' member's statement that we should do what New South Wales is doing, these are the An Opposition ~Iember: Who are the haulage rates in New South Wales and Vic Government~ toria for 50 miles, firewood:- :1\Ir'. DUGGAN: It does not give me any 8. d. measure of satisfaction to refer to the Victoria 18 1 Government, but they are a Labour Govern New South Wales 22 0 ment. What I am refuting is the sugges South Australia 12 9 tion that we should do as New South Wales Queensl-a;nd 12 0 is doing. That is the responsibility of the New South Wales Government; they have For the haulage of wheat for 100 miles, the to answer their own critics. I am content to charges are:- answer any of my critics. I say that we are 8. d. not going to do what New South Wales did. New South Wales 50 0 per ton. Government :Members: Hear, hear! Queensland 32 7 per ton. 1504 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. On maize, corn and chaff, which the Opposi Improved camping wagon for workmen tion want for their constituents, the freights delivered. are:- Construction of deviation to eliminate 8. d. Mount Morgan raek section. New South Wales 62 0 Queensland Reconditioning and re-grading of 32 7 Almaden-Mount Surprise section of A Class goods are carried for:- Etheridge Railway. 8. d. Strengthening of bridges to 12-ton axle Victoria 55 8 load between Merinda and Stuart. New South Wales 54 0 Strengthening of bridges to 12-ton axle Queensland 46 2 load between Babinda and Cairns. The hon. member for Aubigny will be very Strengthening of bridges between Roma quiet on livestock, knowing that self-interest and Westgate for C17 locomotives. is involved. The rate for cattle per four wheeled truck for 300 miles is:- Rearrangement of Toowoomba yard. Re-grading of line between Blair Athol 8. d. Victoria 457 4 and Emer!lld. New South Wales 623 0 New high-level bridge over Elliott River. South Australia 525 0 New bridge over Babinda Creek Queensland 357 11 Duplication of Townsville Jetty Branc_h- !Ir. Sparkes: Give it per head. and the vociferous hon. member for Mundrng burra says we do nothing for North Queens Mr. DUGGAN: If the hon. member land! Others are-- wants it per head I will give it per head- Construction of new railway to Callide s. d. Coalfield. New South Wales 62 4 per head. Queensland 44 9 per head. Duplication of line between Yeerongpilly and Kuraby-already opened from Kuraby Sheep per head, 300 miles- to Rocklea. d. New South Wales 74 Duplication of line between Newmarket Queensland 55.7 and Mitchelton - already opened from Newmarket to Enoggera. I do not know what the hon. member wants. Transfer of wagon repair depot from Does he want freight increases, sackings, or a system that is not able to cater for the Normanby to Wacol. requirements of the people~ I am not certain Cairns-new station. of his wants but we have done something New goods yard at Gladstone. in this regard. Re-arrangement of Rockhampton station As to the charge of the obsolescence of yard. our system, I would recapitulate some of the Quadruplication - Brisbane suburban things we have done. We have designed a area. new suburban tank locomotive, we have a new CC17 locomotive under construction, a Relaying-Blair Athol line. Bayer-Garratt locomotive delivered, also an These are achievements of recent times and improved B18i locomotive delivered. Air they embody either modifications or conditioned carriages are under construction. completely new designs. New suburban cars and new brake vans are There are some other things that indicate being delivered. New baggage cars are under that our operating efficiency has been main order. Delivery has begun of new rail-motor tained on a higher level than that of the trains. Steel FJS 4-wheeled open goods other States, but I shall leave them for the wagons have been delivered. Steel HJS moment. A comparison of the average 8-wheeled open goods wagons have been through load of freight cars to average carry delivered. Formerly we have not had any of ing capacity in the three States for the y~ar steel construction. 1950-1951 discloses the followmg Others are- percentages- Steel VJM 4-wheeled coal hoppers per cent. delivered. Queensland 72.42 Steel GVJM 4-wheeled hoppers for Mount South Australia 67.9 Isa traffic-delivered. Victoria 65.46 Steel CMIS 8-wheeled refrigerator cars so that we can say that the use of wagons delivered. in this State is more sucessful than in the ALJ 4-wheeled louvred box wagons- other States I have mentioned. delivered. At this stage I want to speak merely about 3-stall and 6-stall horse boxes-delivered. the statements that have been made in New 40 ft. W wagons-on order. criticism of the department, and I feel cert~in I have given hon. members ample refutatron New rail water tank wagons--on order. of those statements that we have neglected New oil tank wagons-delivered. our responsibility to the Treasury Depart Improved KKB cattle wagon with ment, the taxpayers of this State, to our guard's and drovers' compartments own employees and the users of the delivered. Queensland railways. Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 15015 Those gentlemen who have spoken in Mr. Farrell, the file I have before me. I sug rriticism of the railways have, as is customary gest that there would be anything from 50 with them, merely indulged in airy assump to 100 letters or memos on this file, dating tions and wild assertions that have not been back to 30 July, 1947. This is the first of supported by facts. them- I will have such things as delays in stock '' I have been in touch with the manager trains examined. No doubt these could be of the Farleigh Sugar Mill, who is quite due to engine trouble, but if there is culpable agreeable to my having power and light negligence, suitable reprimanding action will from their mill. The mill company are be taken against the people concerned. prepared to make the installation at cost Obviously no good purpose is achieved by price to the department. The police station having delays caused deliberately because if was connected on the same basis between there is a 9-hour delay it costs the department mill and Police Department.'' the best part of £9 at least for train crews' wages alone. \V e have issued instructions There is then a letter from the d'epartment to to give priority to stock trains moving from say that the General Manager at Rockhampton these areas, that is, of course, apart from advises- passenger trains. I think that generally we '' .... that in view of the high cost of give good service to the producers of fat installation it is regretted that no action stock and graziers generally and it is can be taken at the present time.'' approved by them. I cannot deny the fact that here and there there might be a leaking That was written in March, 1948; the water bag, but surely hon. members do not original application was in 1947. We know expect me as Minister to go round looking at that over those years the Railway Department water bags or inspecting lavatories to see was actually showing a profit, not the loss it that they are clean~ Undoubtedly it is some is showing today. For the small cost that body's job to look at these things, and if would have been involved in this matter the these instances occur they should be corrected. supply of electricity would have helped tre mendously and would have made the lot of I thank the Committee for the opportunity people who are compelled to work in country of dealing with those points that have been areas much better than it is today. raised, and if there is further discussion on them, which no doubt there will be, I will The latest on the matter is a letter from avail myself of the opportunity of dealing the General Manager, Rockhampton, dated' with that criticism later. 3 October, and I believe in this particular case-or in another one-the old story about liir. LLOYD ROBERTS (Whitsunday) a shortage of money comes to the fore. This (9.14 p.m.): It is not my intention to take man has been struggling along from 1947 to up much of the time of the Committee this date w'hile the whole of the area surrounding evening, nor is it my intention to emulate the has electricity from the Mackay power-house. theatrical performances of the hon. member \Ve have heard that a public place like the for Mundingburra and the hon. member for Farleigh railway station cannot get North Toowoomba. I feel sure that the hon. electricity. member for Mundingburra, when he saw the We have heard mentioned in this Chamber big gallery here tonight, forgot where he was on numerous occasions of the hope that there and thought he was under the Tree of Know will be a railway line to Nebo. I have hopes ledge again. The best way to describe the now that the line to Nebo is something real, hon. member for North Toowoomba's per because I was looking in the Mackay, or formance is that he reminded me of some Central Queensland, telephone book the other of Grimm 's Fairy Tales. day and under the heading of the Nebo We have heard from the Minister tonight exchange I saw ''Railway Station, telephone quite a list of little jobs or big jobs his 11.'' The closest railway line to Nebo would department is undertaking and he made some be at least 47 miles away and it might be mention-quite a strange mention, as a interesting to know how much it cost the matter of fact-of what the Moore Govern Railway Department to have the telephone ment of 1929-1932 had not done, and he said connected to the Nebo railway station that that things were easier then than they are does not exist. today. That was a ver:v strange thing to say when we know that at that time the world Another matter with which I wish to deal was in the depths of a depression. We have -and it is something that I brought up in heard about the big programme of work this Chamber quite recently-also comes from that is going on, but I am sure that there Farleigh, and it is about the bathroom at are very many smaller matters equally impor the station residence. In this matter too tant that have been overlooked' and neglected. there is a file dating back a number of I have brought up one such matter in this years. Whilst I do not intend to read a Chamber on previous occasions and I intend lot of correspondence about it, I should like to bring it up again tonight, and possibly in to read a letter dated 28 May, 1951, written the future. It is said that dripping water by the wife of the station master to the will wear away a stone and I will wear this general manager at Rockhampton. Evidently stone away if I have to keep talking about it was written in desperation. As the station it owr the very many years I hope to be in this Chamber. This is a matter concerning master was unsuccessful over the years in the supply of electricity to the station getting something done, perhaps his wife master's residence at FaT!eigh. You can see, thought that the authorities might be a little 1506 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. more sympathetic towards a woman. When ''Because of inhabitants, wild life, of the you hear about things like this, Mr. Farrell, existing bathroom, towels, soap, etc., can you realise that in many areas the railways not be left there, consequently they repose are quite neglected. This letter says- on the verandah rails. '' With reference to our conversation ''The bath itself is well rusted on the which took place on the platform at bottom and the sides have always been in Mackay station on 15 March, 1951, respect such a dirty state that· constant scrubbings ing the erection of a bathroom at Farleigh even with hot suds make no improvement. station house. I had hoped to have word ''These are merely a few of the incon of your approval by this but probably the matter has slipped your memory. veniences we have put up for over four years and I am sure you would not ''As I mentioned to you the present tolerate any of them in your home for bathroom is a bathroom in name only, as even one week. A bathroom upstairs it is used for less than six months of the would give us much more comfort and year and then solely for the purpose of a convenience and would be appreciated shower-room for the menfolk. For the equally as much by the families of suc remainder of the year it is either too wet ceeding stationmasters. or too cold for even the men to use it. In wet weather, water from the yard runs "You mentioned to me that the position over the bathroom floor, taking gravel, of a new bathroom was a factor to be etc., with it, and in winter it is a veritable considered. If you were to look at a plan death-trap. of the house, an extension of the side veranda on the mill side of the house ''In the 4 years and 4 months we have would not affect the architecture of the been here, I myself have never dared to building.'' use the room for I would run a grave risk of a spell in hospital. Throughout There are a couple more pages but I need those years I have been forced to bath not read any further. in a wash-tub in the kitchen. As the exist Then there is a letter from the District ing bathroom is useless at the present time, Superintendent, Mr. Kent, to the General every member of the household takes a Manager, Rockhampton, dated April, 1947, daily bath in a tub in the kitchen and this which said- practice will necessarily continue until October. Little imagination is necessary '' The present bathroom, which is down to realise the inconvenience of such a pro stairs, is a disgrace. In the wet, water cedure, or the task confronting one man seeps in, the concrete is cracked and is of 15 stone and another of over 6 feet, most inconvenient in its present position. in trying to take a bath in a wash-tub! I would ask that a bathroom be built upstairs with a door leading from the ''Even after 4 years and 4 months of kitchen to same. The water supply could bathing in a wash-tub in a kitchen, I find be worked the same as Kabra, by a rotary it a difficult task. pump system. Back steps require camber ''For all other purposes which a bath ing.'' room is usually used, the existing structure is useless all the year round. It is utterly These things have been under consideration impossible to use a shaving mirror in it, for years and it is only fair and reasonable consequently shaving is done on the back that the people in the outlying areas should verandah. have some modern conveniences, such as a bathroom upstairs. ''For the purpose of washing one's face, or even one's hands, it is also useless as On previous occasions in this Chamber I the floor is of concrete and on a slope and have referred to the flooding of the Cremorne does not lend itself to any type of bench area in North Mackay, which is brought being constructed. Even if a bench were about very largely by the building of the constructed and consideration given to the embankment for the construction of the number of times per day each member of Mackay harbour line. Why it was not built a family uses a basin in the bathroom for on pylons I do not know but the time is face or hand-washing, one would realise fast approaching when that must be done. that it would be utterly impossible to run I have three photographs of the last flood down a flight of stairs each time for such ing in 1950 or 1951, showing where the a purpose! water has broken through the railway line. "Usually the bathroom is used for the It is very easy to see the variation in the purpose of teeth cleansing. As two snakes height of the water. On the one side you have been killed in the downstairs bath have calm water and on the other side of room, several skins shed within three yards the embankment the water is perhaps two of it, innumerable rats fallen into the bath feet lower, which indicates that the embank itself, as well as toads making a home of ment is actually impounding the water and it, toothbrushes, etc., could not possibly be keeping it back. The second photograph is left there. Consequently they are kept taken more or less from the railway line upstairs and as the kitchen sink- the only itself. It shows the buildings on the other other place available-is definitely not the side of the line, including Hodges' implement place for the use of toothbrushes, there is works. The depth of the water can be a cavalcade to the side verandah where gauged by its height on the fence posts each member hangs out over the rail to along the main road through the area. I use a toothbrush! What a picture! cannot remember exactly how long the area Supply. [25 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1507 was cut off but I think for at least 30 hours. and I got hit on the head and I got a Sixty to 80 people were rescued and housed couple of ribs broken-through not taking in the Britannia Hall in Mackay. No. 3 his advice. (Laughter.) I think the Com photograph shows how the water has banked missioner has clone a fine job since he was up in another direction. All the photo appointed. graphs were taken within m~nutes of each The Minister said that he welcomed criti other. On the south-eastern side of the cism. He referred to the hon. member for railway line you will notice that there is Fassifern and he said that that hon. member dry ground, whereas the rest of the area is would not agree to the trains going out to flooded. When you have water to a depth these places, that he believed in letting the of seven or eight feet or more over the cattle die. main road and dry land only 100 yards or so away it must be admitted that this lUr. Duggan: I did not say that. embankment is really the main cause of the 1\Ir. SPARKES: You said it would not flooding. It is the intention of the people pay to feed the cattle, it was better to let in the area to go further in the matter. It them die. is on the cards that the Government will receive a writ for any damage that occurs 1\Ir. Duggan: I said under certain there. But a Government may pay any circumstances. damages awarded against them but they Mr. SPARKES: That is a different cannot replace loss of human life. If any thing. I was not suggesting feeding cattle. life is lost in this area as a result of flood The companies I am in are interested in ing the department and Government will be 70,000 or 80,000 head of cattle, and we know entirely responsible for not making any we cannot feed them where they are. We got attempt to alleviate the present position. out about 15,000, and if we had a railway line we could have got out 15 times that lUr. SPARKES (Aubigny) (9.31 p.m.): number. It was not my intention to speak in this debate but by way of interjection this after What the hon. member for Fassifern said noon I said it would be better to spend was that there might be a time when you money in developing railways in the country would think it was too costly to feed stock in order to preserve our stock numbers when you had to pay £40 a ton for the feed, than spend millions on the electrification of that it might be better to let them die. He the metropolitan railway system. The did not suggest you should not build a Minister took a very poor view of my railway line into those areas in order to remarks. In fact, he lost his block and got get starving stock out. He said that Mr. very wild. After all, the Minister should not Russell said that you never truck stock out get annoyed; he should keep cool, like his till they are dying. A man tries to get his locomotives; if they are not kept cool stock away a long time before they are dying. trouble can be expected from them. If we If the Commissioner advised the Minister :are to get DnJwhere we must always hear in this respect I am sorry. The Minister said the other fellow's views. The hon. gentle that when there is a drought in one part man may be right in his contentions but I of the country it is dry everywhere else. That certainly want to put before him my view is a wrong statement, and we have proof of point. I do not begrudge .Brisbane the what I say at the present time; you have electrification of its railway system. In fact, an over-abundance of food in the South and it cannot be prevented, no matter how we stock are dying in the North. try. In the course of time it must come JUr. Walsll: Are there areas available about, nevertheless it is wrong to spend for agistment~ millions of money in the metropolitan area while thousands of stock are dying in the !Ir. SPARKES: We had hundreds or North-West because of the lack of railway thousands of acres available in the South facilities to transport them. The Minister and we could not get our stock to them. said that the northern railway would have There is a connecting link from Blackall been extended from Dajarra to Camooweal to Charleville, and they said, ''What is the had it not been for the war. That excuse good of building these lines~ Queensland has been put forward before, but there has derives no benefit.'' Queensland would not always been a war. The excuse does not derive a benefit if you built the Dajarra linG. hold water. Mr. Walsll: They would not give us I want to put the Minister quite right that line. about my position. I have nothing against the railways. They will and do play a very !Ir. SPARKES: Is there anything to important part in the development of this stop you from building it~ great State, and because of this I have !Ir. Walsll: This Government offered never quarrelled with them. We have an to build the line from Dajarra to Camooweal excellent Commissioner but I hardly know in 1938. him. In fact, I saw him for the first time tonight. I do believe, though, that his advice Mr. SPARKES: You could have built is much sounder than that given me by the it before then if you wanted to. What Minister. He advised me not to truck cattle stopped you in 1938 f on certain days. I did not take that advice; Mr. Walsll: Why did your Government I wanted to be there myself to truck them not build them when you were in power~ 1508 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. }fr. SPARKES: You expect that we there the stock will be treated at some meat should have built it in three years when you works on the eastern coast of Queensland have not been able to do it in 33 years. and from there sent overseas, but, surely to Jlir. Walsh: You had thousands of heavens, is that not what we wanU Is it unemployed. not the desire of the Minister to have meat works all along the North Coast, operating all Mr. SPARKES: The Government of that the time~ If the meatworks down the coast period built more railway line than your could operate all the year round, so much Government did in 30 years. the better. I doubt whether they could, but if they could that would be so much the The Minister talked about reaonditioning the railways. Actually they have not opened better. up any new line. More railways were built Now I will mention the matter of return in the period 1929 to 1932 than his Govern tickets. If I live in Brisbane and want to ment built in 20 years. travel by the railways to one of the suburbs 20 miles distant I am able to get a return lUr. Devries: It was started during the ticket or a week-end ticket. time of the McCormack Government. A Government Member: You get a gold Mr. SPARKES: It does not matter pass, so you need not worry. when it was started. It is when it is iinished is the thing. It does not matter where Jlir. SPARKES: That is all right. I you start; it matters where you iinish. have not used my gold pass for quite a while. As a matter of fact, I do not see the Minister The CHAIRMAN: Order! using his gold pass, either going to or coming lUr. SPARKES: If the hon. gentleman from Toowoomba. looks round his electorate and goes into the :ilir. Duggan: I do occasionally. Condamine electorate he will notice a totally different outlook. The hon. gentleman will :ilir. SPARKES: It is only very occasion iind that a line was built to a place called ally. The iirst time the Minister uses it to Glenmorgan. come down I shall be there to meet him. I certainly do see him going past with a swish A G8vernment Member: Never heard of it. and I hear later that he has arrived in Toowoomba, but that is not by train. 11Ir. SPARKES: Never heard of it? In If it is right for the people living within the north-west and in the west, in the last a few miles of Brisbane to have return 30 years that country should have been tickets, surely it is equally right to give them opened by a railway. That is how they can to the people in the country~ What about develop the country! The construction of the people who live at Oakey or Crow's Nest railway lines will develop the country. I and want to come to Toowoomba for the know beneiits will be derived by the electri week-end? iication of the city system, but before that is done the Government should develop the :ilir. Hilton: They can get week-end outside areas. To do this will develop the tickets. inside areas in turn, such as the cities and towns. That is why I have always made a lUr. SPARKES: They do not get week plea on behalf of the outside areas, because end tickets at all. If the Minister would in the main politicians-and I will not say only stick to something that we thought he the Minister so much-are inclined to get the knew about, if he would only stick to build Queen Street outlook and think that the whole ing, even though he has been proved to be of the great State of Queensland revolves wrong even in the Zillmere business, he would rnund Queen Street, but that is not so by a do much better. He comes into something long chalk. he knows nothing about. He says the people in the country get return tickets. I say they Jlir. Brown: There must be towns to eat the food produced in the outside areas. do not. Jlfr. Hilton: I said they get week-end Mr. SPARKES: To a certain extent tickets. Your knowledge of these matters is that is all right but there would not be any very limited. towns to eat the food if you had not the people ouside to grow the food. The hon. 1\fr. SPARKES: When I raised this member is end'eavouring to point out the inter matter to a former Commissioner he said that dependence of one on the other and I am it was not economic for the railways, and big enough to appreciate that point, but the when I asked how he arrived at that con outside must be developed if the inside is to clusion he said that if Mr. Smith came from be developed. Develop the outside and the Oakey to Toowoomba and went home in some inside areas develop automatically. But the friend's car he would sell his return ticket. Government are trying to build up Brisbane Where does that hurt the railways~ At least before developing the country. That is the he has had to buy the ticket. trouble with this State and that has been the trouble in New South Wales. There they Mr. Pizzey: The same thing would want to take everything to Sydney and make apply in the city. bottlenecks in getting everything to Sydney. In that State they pass Newcastle for Sydney, :ilir. SPARKES: Of course it would. as they do in the North here. The Minister He is only selling something he bought, and has said that if we build a rail way line out it makes no difference at all. On the other Supply. [26 NovEMBER.] Auditor-General's Report. 15{)9 hand, if that person can buy only a single Another thing to which I want to draw ticket he will do his utmost to get a ride home the attention of the Minister-and every \Yhereas if he gets a return ticket he would other hon. member on the other side of the more than likely return by train. Committee-is the compartments that are Mr. Riordan: You should stick to the provided in stock trains for the drovers. Hon. stock trains. members opposite are everlastingly crying out, ''We stand for the working-man.'' They lUr. SPARKES: If I get onto the stock shoulcl get into one of these drovers' com trains it will not please the Secretary for partments and take a ride of 400 or 500 Mines and Immigration or the Minister for miles. I suggest that the Secretary for Mines Transport. We have nothing to skite about and Immigration should be the first one to where our stock trains are concerned, so I try it. The compartments supplied to advise the hon. gentleman not to bring that drovers are an absolute disgrace. The matter up. drover plays a very important part in get I ask the Minister for Transport to look ting the stock to their destination-- into this question of giving the people in Mr. Duggan: Have you any serious the country the same facilities as those complaint about the drovers' compartments obtaining in the city. The country people in our new wagons~ have to put up with many more disabilities, and if we can do anything to keep them lUr. SPARKES: Instead of getting his on the land it is the duty of not only this blood pressure up and getting annoyed and Government but all Governments to do it. reefing at his hair, the Minister should listen I have heard people say it costs more to peacefully and keep cool, calm, and collected. give schooling to the children in the He should have a nice smile on his face, as country, and I readily agree that this might the Premier has now, which is very unusual. cost more, and even though it might not be as successful as it is in the city, it should lllr. Gair: I can't help smiling when I be given a trial. look at you. There is another matter I wish to bring lllr. SPAR.KES: If it makes the Premier before the notice of the Minister. The smile when he looks at me, I suggest that Secretary for Mines and Immigration said he should look at me more often. something about stock trains-- I am expressing my own views now, not Mr. Riordan: I was only trying to help necessarily those of my party. That is a you out. privilege we enjoy that Government members do not. lUr. SPARKES: I appreciate the hon. gentleman's help, poor as it is. I bring before We are free to express our own views. the notice of the Minister in the hope that Stock trains should get a clear run and not the new Commissioner may look into it, the held up to allow goods trains to pass. The matter of the division of our K wagons. crew of a goods train can get off at the Any man who knows anything about stock station to have a drink but stock cannot. knows that if you cut the wagon in two Why should they be kept standing in the fewer bullocks would be going down. I heard sun for half-an-hour or so to allow an two trucks were divided that way. There ordinary goods train to pass~ should ~ no trouble in untrucking, because lllr. Hilton: You know that is not right. the New South Wales trucks carry only 10. Mr. Duggan: If there were two doors lllr. SPARKES: Of course it is not, and there would be two chances of injuring the I want it altered. For once the hon. gentle stock instead of one. man agrees with me. At last he is beginning to see the light of day. Time is getting on Mr. SPARKES: The Minister thinks and I conclude by urging the Minister to see that every time you put a beast through the that stock trains get an uninterrupted run. door you injure him. I will take the Minis ter's advice and let men truck my stock and Progress reported. I will stay at home. If a person is only The House adjourned at 9.56 p.m. injured when he has trucked the number of stock that I have trucked it will be a long time before anybody is injured, because I have trucked hundreds of thousands and never had an injury before. I really put this suggestion to the Minister. All the drovers I have spoken to tell me that they never have a beast getting down in a KB wagon, which holds 12 head, and men have said to me on dozens of occasions, "We will not have trouble in a KB." I have not seen a beast down in an A.C. Mr. Devries: What does K.B. stand for~ Mr. SPARKES: I have seen the hon. gentleman drink a lot of that, but that is in passing. I suggest that the Minister give this suggestion careful consideration.