Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 1949

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

1396 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

TUESDAY, 8 NOVEMBER, 1949. (b) what freight was carried at special rates, and how much revenue did the Rail­ way Department receive therefrom 1 M~. SPEAKER (Hon. S. J. Brassington, Fortitude Valley) took the chair at 11 a.m. '' 2. What revenue would have been received, if the same quantity of freight had been carried and if the classification QUESTIONS. rates as shown in the Goods By-law had been charged thereon, for the same FINANCES OF QUEENSLAND-BRITISH FOOD period~'' CoRPORATION. Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba) Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba-Leader of replied- the Opposition) asked the Acting Premier- '' 1. What are the following financial " I. (a) There were approximately 1,200 details .o~ the operations of the Queens­ special rates in operation. (b) A quarterly land-Bntrsh Food Corporation to 30 return of traffic conveyed at special rates September last, viz.:-(1) Expenditure on is received from all stations, and detailed capital assets, (2) working expenditure thereon are the commodity, station from (other than on capital assets), (3) total station to, special rate, and total tonnag~ expenditure, ( 4) total income from (a) thereat for the quarter. Traffic conveyed . grain crops (including amounts due on at special contract rates is included in this account of sales effected), (b) livestock, return. From these returns, tonnages are (c) other sources, and (d) total from all extracted in the Commissioner's office for sources including amounts due~ the separate commodities at the special '' 2. Considering the large amount of rates, ~ut no assessment of the freight State funds involved, why are details of charge IS made. The tonnages at special the accounts of this organisation not contract rates are omitted in this extrac­ included in the Auditor-General's report as tion. T'o prepare the information requested in the case of Commodity Boards under would entail extensive time and clerical the provisions of the Primary Producers' effort. Organisation and Marketing Acts~'' ' '2. Recourse would have to be made to the original documents at stations to deter­ Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane) mine the amount of revenue at the classi­ replied- fication rates as shown in the Goods '' 1. The first report of the Queensland­ By-law. It would necessitate multitudin­ British Food Corporation, including the ous calculations, extensive time, and cleri­ financial tables, were presented to Parlia­ cal effort.'' ment, as provided for in the Queensland­ British Ji'ood Production Act, on 2 August, 1949. The results of the Queens­ CARE OF TREES ON MAIN ROADS. land-British Food Corporation's activities since then will, in accordance with the Act, Mr. LOW (Cooroora): I desire to ask the be published after the close of the Cor­ Treasurer whether he has an answer to the poration's financial year at 31 March, 1950, following question, which I addressed to him and will in due course be presented to Par­ on 3 November- liament. '' In view of the fact that in recent times "2. The Primary Producers' Organisa­ many trees planted along State Highways tion and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1946, and Main Roads in Queensland have, require that the accounts of organisations through utter neglect, been destroyed by established in accordance with these Acts fire, will he advise- shall be audited by the Auditor-General. 1. When was the tree-planting scheme The Queensland-British Food Production first inaugurated~ Act of 1948 contains no such provision. In accordance with the Act, the accounts of 2. The number of trees planted and the Queensland-British Food Corporation cost to date~ are audited annually by auditors appointed 3. What action does the DeJlartment by the Corporation and approved by the propose taking to see that all trees Auditor-General, and the accounts, pro­ perly certified to by the auditors, are planted are properly cared for in the included in the annual report of the Cor­ futureW'' poration, which is laid before Parliament. Hon. J. LARCOMBE (Rockhampton) Particulars are given by the Auditor­ replied- General in his annual reports for the finan­ cial years 1947-48 and 1948-49 of the '' 1. Tree planting on main roads com­ moneys made available by the State for the menced aoon after the pa,ssing of the purposes of the Corporation.'' Main Roads Acts in 1920; in the early years the work was carried out in the SPECIAL RAILWAY FREIGHTS. ordinary course of maintenance but since 1939 provision has been mad~ for tree Mr. P ATERSO:N (Bowen) asked the planting as a permanent works activity. Minister for Transport- '' 2. Complete records have not been kept, '' 1. For the year ending 30 June, 1949- but in the year 1948-49, 22,47:5 trees were ( a) how many special rates for the con­ being maintained. During the year veyance of goods were in operation; and 1948-49 eighteen schemes for tree planting, Ooal Mining Act8, &c., Bill. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1397

provi&ion of amenities for road travellers, SUPPLY. the clearing of undergrowth, &c., were carried out at a cost of £7,059." RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE-ESTIMATES­ '' 3. Trees are cared for by local auth­ TENTH AND ELEVENTH ALLOTTED DAYS. orities and the Main Roads Commission; (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Mann, the percentage of loss has been small. Brisbane, in the chair.) Where trees have been destroyed by fire, replacement has generally been made. For ESTIMATES-IN-CHIEF, 1949-50. further information respecting tree plant­ DEPARTMENT OF RAILWAYS. ing I would refer the hon. member to page 16 of the report of the Commis­ SOUTHERN JliVISION. S'ioner for Main Roads for the year Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­ 1948-49. '' Minister for Transport) (11.10 a.m.): I PAPERS. move- "That £8,015,760 be granted for The following paper was laid on the table, 'Southern Division.' '' and ordered to be printed:- This amount is £1,226,111 greater than the Report of the Director-General of Health appropriation for the year 1948-49, and and Medical Services, the Director of £627,113 in excess of the actual expenditure Maternal and Child Welfare, and the for that year. •Director of Mental Hygiene for the year 1948-1949. A summary of increases and decreases The following papers were laid on the compared with 1948-49 expenditure is as table:- follows:- Increases. Proclamation under the Public Works Land £ Award and Automatic Increases, including Resumption Acts, 1908 to 1940, the State part paid in 1948-49 ...... 322,936 Development and Public Works Full provision appointments, &c., 1948-49 148,936 Organisation Acts, 1938 to 1940, and the Extra staff ...... 51,101 Fuel-increased costs . . 27,830 Queensland-British Food Production Act Stores-Extra requirements and increased of 1948 (27 October). prices 14,349 New boilers . . . . 54,600 Orders in Council under- Maintenance material .. 40,468 The Aliens Acts, 1867 to 1948 (3 Novem­ Some of the decreases are- ber). £ The Landlord and Tenant Acts, 1948 to Extended leave and retiring allowances .. 22,3 J3 1949 (3 November). Temporary and casual labour . . . . 34,896 Tamaree Smash .. 11,550 The Profiteering Prevention Act of 1948 Savings Account Reft. rooms leased .. 13,000 (4) (27 October). Staff variations and Miscellaneous Services . . 4,712 a net increase of £627,113. VAGRANTS, GAMING, AND OTHER I propose to follow the practice I adopted OFFENCES ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. in the earlier debate and merely submit the vote at this stage. If there are points upon INITIATION. which honourable members desire clarifica­ tion or if there is criticism to which I feel Hon. A. JONES (Charters Towers­ Secretary for Health and H;ome Affairs): I necessary to reply, I will do so at a later move- stage. '' That the House will, at its present Mr. SPARKES (Aubigny) (11.11 a.m.): sitting resolve itself into a Committee of The Southern Division vote is a very im­ the Whole to consider of the desirableness portant one and I say that with all respect of introducing a Bill to amend the to my friends from the North who say that Vagrants Gaming, and other Offences the vote for the North is important. Acts, 19ill to 1948, in certain particulars. '' On this occasion I hope the Minister for Motion agreed to. Transport will accept my criticism in the spirit it is given. I do not mind being COAL MINING ACTS AMENDMENT dubbed irresponsible, because after all that BILL. is the Minister's opinion and unlike him, I am prepared to stand on my record and be INITIATION. judged on it as irresponsible or not, whereas he apparently is not prepared to stand on Hon. W. M. MOORE (Merthyr-Secre­ the record of his department. I object to tary for Mines and Immigration): I move- the statement made by that honourable '' That the House will, at its present gentleman that I, unlike other members of sitting, resolve itself into a Com:nittee of my party, cannot meet the Minister outside the Whole to consider of the desirableness after the debate has taken place. I know of introducing a Bill to amend the Coal that there are many who disagree with me Mining Acts, 1925 to 1948, in certain par­ in this Chamber but I hope, in fact I feel ticulars. ' ' sure, that there are very few who are not Motion agreed to. friendly disposed towards me, and I to 1398 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. them, once we leave this Chamber. His state­ out! The significant fact is that the road­ ment was one of the things that rather users are willing to pay the extra fee rather hurt my feelings and I was surprised at the than use the railways. Again, what an indict­ Minister's being small enough to even think ment against the railways! what he said. I hasten to assure him that I come now to the subject of delay in I will welcome him with open arms when he stock trains, and to save you any embarrass­ replies to-day. There is no occasion for that m:mt, Mr. Manu, let me say that my remarks honourable gentleman to descend to abuse or w1ll be confined to the Southern Division. ridicule, as such abuse only weakens his I have here a copy of ''Queensland Country case. He has the ability to deal with criti­ Life,'' one of the best papers of its kind in cism in an ordinary way. I hope the Australasia. remarks I make this day will not give him Mr. Roberts: Not a Labour paper? cause to pay the attention to me that he paid the other day, because after all he lUr. SPARKES: No, it is not a Labour spent the best part of an hour dealing with :paper. I sa;: it is the best paper of its kind this irresponsible person. m Australasia, and I am not taking back one word of that. Indeed, Queensland is Mr. Devries: I think he is very fair­ fortunate in its Press; we have a very good minded. Press. We have a daily Press that is fair and reasonable and equal to anything in Mr. SPARKES: And the Attorney­ Australasia. (Government dissent.) General is entitled to think what he likes. It does not matter what the Minister might The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Committee say about my goings on, for I intend to is not dealing with the Press, it is dealing criticise the Railway Department if I think with the railways. it warrants it, despite anything the Minister might say or any threats he might make to­ JUr. SPARKES: The following report appears in ''Queensland Country Life'' of wards me. At the outset of his speech the 27 October, 1949:- other day he challenged me to reply to cer­ ''Bitter complaints about the unloading tain statements he made. He said that I of pigs and calves at Cannon Hill for the was at least £100,000 out in my figures but Tuesday sales were received at 'Queens­ I want to tell him that he was £104,000 out. lan~ Country Life's' office yesterday from It will be seen who was the irresponsible sellmg agents and farmers who claimed person. t~at t~e mish.andling of unloading opera­ tiOns IS placmg the farmer in a most Mr. Collins: You are wrong anyway. unsatisfactory position.' ' Mr. SPARKES: You see the attitude of The Minister always says, ''Put your case hon. gentlemen opposite, Mr. Mann-"You before me and I will consider it,'' but he are wrong anyway.'' I hope the Minister for also us.es these. words, ''I challenge him,'' Transport will not adopt that attitude. How and ''Irresponsible.'' However, mark this can the Secretary for Agriculture know that part in the same report- I am wrong when he has not heard what I " 'Queensland Country Life' has, on have to say~ If he can read what is going previous occasions, drawn the Railway on in my mind, he is a better man than I Commissioner's attention to this very am. unsatisfactory state of affairs. ''Last Tuesday morning agents' repre­ Mr. Power: You will be wrong when you sentatives who were on the spot at 4 a.m. do say it. found that all, the pigs and calves intended Mr. SPARKES: "You will be wrong for that sale had arrived. However, the when you do say it,'' says another Minister organisation of the unloading was so p0or of the Crown. The Minister went on to say that at 9.15 a.m. a number of trucks l1ad that not one penny had been spent by the not yet been placed, although it was three­ councils in the construction of the road from quarters of an hour after the sale had here to Toowoomba, and I interjected, "You started. One agent who had seven or eight have a lot to learn.'' Then the Minister trucks on the line had received only three retorted "I challenge the hon. member to up to the time the sale commenced. He dispute 'that.'' At the time of the con­ was forced to sell 50 per cent. of his offer­ struction of the road I was president of the ing at the end of the market, although be Local Authorities' Association of Queensland was early in the draw. and I know that the Tarampa shire con­ ''A result of this slow delivery was that tributed towards the cost of the road on a a larger number of calves were offered at fifty-fifty basis. In any case, the hon. gentle­ the afternoon sale than were sold in the man should know that shires still have to morning, the last of the consignments contribute towards the maintenance of these being unloaded after 10 a.m." highways, but of course the Minister is con­ That train arrived at 4 a.m. When I was tent to say, "You are irresponsible; you do criticising the department on the Chief not know.'' I know that I am not infallible; Office vote for delay of trains, I said they nor is the Minister, even though he thinks so. I went on to point out how successful were delayed four or five hours. The the road transport was, and the Minister said Minister did not like my remark and he something to the effect, ''Try to buy them challenged me to produce proof. I now pro­ out.'' What an indictment against the rail­ duce the article in this newspaper. I can ways, to say that we should try to buy them produce many more if the hon. gentleman so Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1399

desires. The point is that these delays do Mr. SPARKES: I am entitled to my happen and it is as well to bring them before opmwn. I am voicing my opinion. the Committee so that the evil can be rectified. There is another matter I am worried It is rather remarkable that the hon. mem­ about, that is, the late running of trains. I ber for Mackay spoke after the Minister. He know many of the men engaged in working said that if a more attractive rail service was the railways. The big majority of them are provided it might be an inducement for the fine fellows, intelligent men who do their job. people to use the railways. The Deputy I was speaking to a man on a stock train Premier interjected, ''They would never get and I said to him, ''How is it you chaps seem home in time to resume business. ' ' Appar­ to be always late~" ently the Deputy Premier does not think those He said, ''If we are five minutes early an trains are very fast. Then we find the hon. officious station-ma&ter says, 'You have no member for Mackay saying ''Quite correct.'' right' and goes for me.'' But if he is a The hon. member for Kennedy followed with quarter of an hour or half an hour late he gets the suggestion that the Government might extra pay and au allowance for the meal •speed up the railway service between Brisbane hour. Is that encouraging to a man to do his and Cairns by 12 to 14 hours, and said that job~ I appeal to hon. members opposite­ he suggested this 15 years ago. if a man works his train well and is a few minutes before time, why knock him back~ The CHAIRMAN: Order! If an employee of mine gets a job done five minutes beforehand I do not abuse him. Mr. SPARKES: The hon. member for I give him all credit; and if he continues to do Kennedy said that he knew this service and it I give him a bonus. I encourage that type that the trains arrived on time at the of conduct and I do not encourage my men northern terminus, which gave him an to be late. I should encourage a man to be opportunity to mention it. This all shows on time or early if possible. that our trains are not all that the Minister would like to make out. The There is apparently ample opportunity criticism I offered was offered in the best for speeding up the trains when the hon. of good faith. member for Kennedy wants to cut 12 or 14 hours off the northern run. I have made those I want to bring up another matter and I few points in an endeavour t·o indicate to the hope the Minister will heed what I say. I Minister some of the ways in which I think should not know the Commissioner, Mr. the department can be improved. Maloney, or the general manager, Mr. The other night the hon. member for Moriarty. To the best of my belief, I have Kelv±n Grove ,referred to members' gold never spoken to either gentleman, except pas&es. possibly on the telephone, but I may be incor­ rect. I have no complaint against either of The CHAIRJUAN: Order! That matter those gentlemen, but I would ask the Minister is one for the Chief Secretary's Department. to take note of my submission. On every Mr. SPARKES: I hope the Minister will occasion when a Commissioner retires and a take some heed of what I have said. I new appointment is made we find that the understand the delay occurs at Cannon Hill appointee is an officer who has reached such while the crews are changing instead of pull­ a stage in the service that he has only a ing the train in so that the men could go year or so to go before he retires. We know on unloading. I feel sure the Mini&ter will that was so when Mr. Wills was appointed appreciate the fact that pigs and calves are and we know it to be so with Mr. Maloney. standing for some hours outside the loading An ordinary individual in such circumstances ramp is not in the best interest of the would say, "Why should I start to stir up animals or the department. things~ I have only a year or so to go.'' JUr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (11.28 The CHAIRJUAN: Order! The hon. a.m.): Unfortunately, last week I was under member should have dealt with that matter suspension; I was not in the Chamber while on the vote for Chief Office. the Chief Office vote was being discussei!. My suspension re&ulted from a deliberately Thlr. SPARKES: Mr. Maloney is an provocative-- officer of the Southern Division and therefore would come under this vote. I am not going The CHAIRThiAN: Order! to make any statement derogatory to Mr. Mr. AIKENS: --act by a member of the Maloney-he probably should have had the Labour Party who should have known better. opportunity years ago of accepting the appointment of Commissioner-nor do I The CHAIRMAN: Order! intend my remarks to be derogatory in any sense to the gentleman who is in line for Mr. AIKENS: Am I not permitted to say-- the position. I do not know Mr. Moriarty but I know he has done a good job. For The CHAIRMAN: Order! 'rhat matter heaven's sake, do not keep him in that is closed. The hon. member is not in order position until he. is too old to do the job. I in discussing hi& suspension. The matter has am not criticising the Minister. been concluded. We are discussing the vote for the Railways Department, Southern Mr. Moore: 'fhat is your opinion. Division. 1400 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply,

Mr. AIKENS: I was going to say-I will Brisbane through the Southern Division to not press it-that I have definite, infor­ the limits of the Southern Division-! notice mation that the member for Carnarvon admit­ you are grinning, Mr. Mann, and I deduce ted that he had deliberately provoked the that I have got you in a hole. I take it I scene that resulted in my suspension. will be in order in discussing the Sunshine Express. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. Mr. JUoore: It is not true. member not to be facetious. He has not got Mr. AIKENS: It is true. me in a hole. That is a reflection on the Chair. However, I a~k him not to be facetious The CHAIRMAN: Order! I do not want and confine his remarks to the Southern to deal with the hon. member for disregard­ Division. ing my call so early after resuming his place, but if he continues to disregard my Mr. AIKENS: You are not a good poker­ authority I shall have to deal with him. I player, Mr. Mann; you betray by your face ask him now to deal with the matter before the what is going on in your mind. Committee. The Sunshine Express travels from Bris0 bane to the limits of the Southern Division. Mr. AIKENS: While I was speaking and It then proceeds to the Northern Division you were calling me to order-I did not hear and I take it I am quite in order in dis­ you, of course-the Secretary for Mines said cussing a train that', for part of its journey, the statement I made was not true. Am I nl't travels through the Southern Division. in order in replying to that~ Mr. Pie: You can only discuss the part The CHAIRMAN: That matter is closed. from Brisbane to Bunda.berg. lllr AIKENS: I could prove that it is Mr. AIKENS: I will not go into that. true but in view of your ruling I will let it I shall proceed with my speech, just as I go. proceed with all my speeches in this Chamber. JUr. Moore interjected. I shall continue only as far as the Chairman or Mr. Speaker allows me to go. Mr. AIKENS: You ought to go back to some of the places you came from. We had from the Minister for Transport during the course of the debate on this The CHAIRJUAN: Order! I warn the department a remarkable exhibition as to hon. member that if he continues to dis­ how he intends to popularise the railway sys­ regard my authority I will deal with him. tem. First of all, he is going to have the locomotives painted red, and carriages painted Mr. AIKENS: This debate so far has a pale pink and no doubt he will have the seen some remarkable contributions by mem­ drivers' uniforms a delicate shade of lavender. bers of the Labour Party and the most By the t'ime he is finished, the Queensland remarkable contribution, I should think, came trains will look like one of those hideous from the Secretary for Agriculture and Stoclt. colour schemes we see so often in the ties worn Some time ago, speaking in this Chamber, by the hon. member for Kennedy. Frankly, I he made a statement, which was copiously do not think that painting the Queensland reported by the ''Courier-Mail,'' in which h" trains all the colours of the rainbow will said the representations at the present time induce one more passenger to travel or will being made by the North Queensland Develop­ add to the comfort of any passenger who does ment League and the existing organisa­ travel on them. The passengers on the tions-- Queensland railway trains need, first of all, The CHAIRMAN: Order! speed-as far as the lines will permit­ secondly, comfort, and thirdly, convenience. Mr. AIKENS: I am about to deal with I was a railway man for many years and, the railways. like other hon. members in this Committee, I now travel on trains as my duties required me The CHAIRMAN: Order! I would point out to the hon. member that we are not deal­ to do so. I have noticed in travelling about ing with the Northern Division at present. We on trains for very many years that very few are dealing with the Southern Division of the people are interested at all in the colour of .Railway Department and I ask him to confine the trains or the scenery through which the his remarks to the Southern Division. trains pass. If one walks along the corri­ dors of the trains-and I do so when Mr. AIKENS: Very well. I hope that travelling by train; I go into the by the effiuxion of time, the Grace of God, first- and second-class compartments and and your good wishes, Mr. Manu, very shortly talk to the people who vote for me we shall be dealing with the Northern Divis­ at election time-and I find, as any other ion and I shall be able to mention the matter observant man will find, that most pa;;sengers then. However, I will now get on with the are trying to while away the time until they Southern Division which, of course, is the get to the end of their journey. When they apple of the Minister's eye and also the apple board the train they want to be assured of of the Labour Government's eye. I hope you comfort and to know they will be tali:en to are not going to rule this out of order, Mr. their destina>,tion in the shortest possible Manu. I am about to deal with the train time. Until the Minister for Transport aims known as the Sunshine Express, or the at achieving these two objections all the Northern Mail, which runs from Brisbane to chromatic hideousness with which he hopes Cairns and on its return journey runs from to cover his trains will be of no avail and Cairns to Brisbane. As that train runs from will not draw one extra customer. Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1401

Let us see whether we can make the trains able to run fast trains comparable with those faster and bring into the train travel of this in other countries using a 3 feet 6 gauge until country some necessary comfort and conveni­ they reduce the load of their trains, of their ence for the people who do not enjoy comfort passenger trains in particular. and convenience today. First of all, the On one occasion in this Chamber I quoted Minister for Transport is not a practical the Coronation Scot, one of the most power­ railway man. Secondly, his executive officers ful passenger locomotives in the world, which take no notice of what practical railway men runs between London and Glasgow. The load tell them. I do not want to rub salt into the of that huge locomotive is less than the load wounds of the Minister-and they are open hauled by the small B 18! or, further north, and gaping, I understand, as a result of by the C 17 on the Sunshine Express. There criticism that was levelleQueensland Government split personality. The words he uses now are make the Sunshine Express purely and simply entirely at variance with the words he used a passenger train and limit its load to then. passengers only, cutting down the loading from 13 coaches to 9 coaches, they will not be The Minister has told us that a train is able to achieve the speed the train should being completed-and it will be completed, I hope, before some of us die-in the Ipswich travel at. workshops for the Sunshine Express. That I make the suggestion: do not wait until train is going to give comfort and conveni­ the train in its embryo stage at Ipswich is ence. It is going to be hauled, presumably, completed or until the Beyer-Garratts arrive by one of those high-powered locomotives the here or until the Minister goes along with Minister mentioned the other day. Probably his multitude of pots of paint and paints it is going to be hauled by one of the Beyer­ the carriages and the engines all the colours Garratt locomotives. But in train-running, of the rainbow, but let him use the present any experienced train-man can tell you-any B18!s. Let him confine the loading of the intelligent man; he need not be a train-man­ Sunshine Express to nine coaches carrying can tell you that you can have one of two passengers only, and he will cut at least 10 things. You can have a heavy and slow train hours off the journey occupied from Brisbane or you can have a light and fast train. You to Cairns and then the enginemen working cannot have it both ways. You cannot have the train will be able, to use the vernacular, a heavy and fast train, and that is the whole to do the trip on their heads. Let the train sum and substance of the Queensland Rail­ be devoted to passenger traffic only and send way Department's failure to run trains at a mail and parcels, billy-cans of eggs and bales speed comparable with that of other systems of goat skins and bundles of "Courier-Mails" in the world that use a 3 feet 6 gauge. by a fast sweeper train, either before or Mr. Pie: What about the permanent after the mail. By so doing, as I have said, way~ the department would be able to .cut the journey down by at least 10 hours, and give II'Ir. AIKENS: The permanent way speed and comfort to the travellers by so carries them. The permanent way will stand doing. The department believes in turning up to increased speed. If the hon. member a passenger train into a mixed train, one for Windsor would only go and ride on a loaded down with parcels and mail, and one stock train between Charters Towers and that has to stop at every wayside station to Townsville he would see that the men with let down passengers. A little locomotive has a C-17 engine are loaded down with 19 Ks to haul 13 and 14 coaches and has to be and a KB and that they have to travel up to brought to a stop on more occasions than 45 and 50 miles an hour at the bottom of a necessary, and this is where time is lost. grade in order to negotiate 'the grade on the other side with their staggering load. Time is lost also in negotiating the steep up-grades and the train has no opportunity The CHAIRMAN: Order! of picking it up on the down-grades unless JUr. AIKENS: I presume they also do it the safe s.peed is grossly exceeded. That is on the Blackall Range between Brisbane and the considered opinion of all practical men Gympie, so I will keep within the ambit of who have worked the Sunshine Express. I your ruling once again. They will never be have worked it as a :fireman and a driver, 1402 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

and so has the hon. member for Mackay, and re~reshment-room along the railway lines in hundreds of other men have driven or fired this State. The mother with young children the Sunshine Express, all of whom will tell has not a ghost of a chance of getting you that the Sunshine Express will never be ~ecent food for her children along the an express except in name, until the load is JOurney. reduced and the speed is increased. You cannot have a big load on the Sunshine Mr. Sparkes: Do you not think that provision of a dining car would obviate the Express and hope to call it an express train or passenger train. trouble~ There is another matter requiring con­ lUr. AIKENS: :r'hat is a good suggestion. sideration on the part of the Minister and There IS a dmmg car on the Sunshine serious consideration on the part of the Gov­ Express fro:n Mackay to Rockhampton, but ernment, and I refer to the way in which a mother with three or four kiddies cannot women with young children have to travel on get :;long the corrido; ~o . the dining car, pn.~senger trains. In this connection I make especially when the tram Is m·motion. As a particular reference to the Sunshine Express. matter of fact, most mothers who travel with A woman with young children goes to the young children prefer to carry their own booking office-but the men in the Tourist food. I make the suggestion that a separate Bureau and booking offices-who in the main compartment be set aside for each mother are decent, courteous officers-have no time or travelling with her young children and that opportunity to put women, particularly women a hostess be provided to help the mother so with young children, in compartments by that . she can feed her children at a11y time themselve&. And consequently anyone who she hkes. When the train comes to a refresh­ cares to go along the corridors on the Sun­ ment-room the hostess could look after the shine Express will see women travelling with children or could go and get the food for young children herded higgledy-piggledy in the mother. For a mother travelling with young children a journey on a long-distance th.e eo ache~ amongst other passengers. You will see distracted mothers, with babies in train is not ·a journey; it is an ordeal a arms and two or three little toddlers driven nightmare. Such a mother is a real heroine. to their wits' end to keep their childr~n quiet A hostess should be provided to help her. and from annoying other passengers-not that Mr. Sparkes: In other words, you want the other passengers feel annoyed because they the Department to provide the same service are sensible and broad-minded and know that as is given with the aeroplane~ children will be children whether they are on a train or elsewhere. 'It is pitiful to see Mr. AIKENS: Yes, and why not? Why women travelling with young children herded cannot the department give the same measure higgle~ly-piggledly into sitting coaches on of service to women travelling by train as is long-distance passenger trains, without com­ given to them on an aeroplane service~ fort or convenience at all. Mr. Marriott: She is entitled to it. ~h.e departm~nt is in a particularly buoyant positiOn financially, despite the fact that it Mr. AIKENS: Of course she is. Again shows a little deficit caused by the big interest I s~ggest tha~ the Minister should go into bill ~he railways have t~ pay.. I make the sug­ conrerence with some of the women's gestiOn that every family umt-a man wife organisations or with some of the excellent and two er more children-or a woman travel: women employees in his department with a ling with two or more children be given a vie;" to setting asicle a certain part of the sleeping apartment without extra cost. It tram for mothers travelling with children over would not impose any great hardship or finan­ long distances. If the department cannot cial burden on the Railway Department at provide sleeping compartments without extra the present time. If the Minister does not cost it should provide a compartment of some feel magnanimous enough or generous enough sort without extra cost. The cost should not to grant that, at least he should go into con­ matter. ference with some of the female officers of I do not know how much extra it would cost the Railway Department-and there are many to have a hostess travelling on the train from good female officers in his department--or go Brisbane to Cairns. At the present time into conference with some of the very fine three shifts of conductors do the job, and women's organisations sprinkled throughout perhaps three hostesses or more would be the State and work out a plan so that every required; it would depend on the onerousness woman who travels with young children can of the job and the long hours to be worked. get a separate compartment for herself. Even if it was necessary to have five or six If possible, let us carry it a step further hostesses that would be justified because it and have a hostess go on every long-distance would ensure that women travelling long dis­ train for the specific purpose of looking after tances with young children would be able the woman travelling with young children. to travel with comfort and convenience. That is something that is long overdue. If When I travel north on the Sunshine Express, we have, as we do at the present time a as I frequently do, and I see mothers with woman boarding a train with three or f~m young children scrambling on the trains I little toddlers and perhaps a babe in arms am inclined to think that we are living in she sits there with the other passengers in Afghanistan, Abyssinia, or Nigeria, and not the sitting compartment and when she reaches in the civilised State of Queensland. the first refreshment-room it is pitiable to I shall have some observations to make see her and her little children scrambling and later about the northern r.ailway system a;nd pushing in the mad blackguard rush for the so I will finish on that note. ·r ~epeat my Supply. rs NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1403 suggestion that the Government should reduce when one is aware of the lack of man-power the load on the Sunshine Express, cutting out and shortage of material, but the Minister the mails, parcels, wayside goods, and run the has shown us that he has been able to find train purely as a passenger train. If our £250,000 for rail improvements on the south passenger trains were made a little lighter, we side and another £400,000 to make deviations could, with our present locomotives, cut 10 and a duplication of the Moonmera-Moongan hours off the journey from Brisbane to Cairns. line in the Rockhampton district. I took it That could be done now, not as the Minister upon myself to investigate what is involved suggested, in the next millenium or the next in the Kuraby-Yeerongpilly link in comparison epoch or the next decade; it could be done with the Eagle Junction-Pinkenba link. It so with our present locomotives and coaches. If the Minister is sympathetic and if he believes happens there are seven revenue-producing in giving women and children a fair deal let centres on both these lines. When we passed him s·et up the machinery that will allow the legislation dealing with the Y eerongpilly­ women and children to travel long distances Kuraby link the report said that no improve­ in the train in reasonable comfort. ment in revenue could be expected, but it was considered d~Jsirable that the duplication Mr. H. B. TAYLOR (Hamilton) (11.51 should be carried out. The Commissioner's a.m.) : The discussion on this vote gives hon. report shows that in 1947-48 the total revenue members an opportunity of speaking about from Moorooka to Kuraby was £25,450, and railways in their electorates and an oppor· the total revenue from Clayfield to Pinkenba tunity of doing what is called working the wharf, which has the same number of revenue­ parish pump. I have one and three quarter producing centres, was £101,112, virtually miles of railway travelling through my elec· torate. That in the future will prove a very four times the amount of the revenue pro· valuable link in the railway system in the duced on the line where we have approved of metropolitan area ~ecause the area from an expenditure of £250,000 on duplication. In Ascot to Pinkenba is being developed as one the past year the revenue on the line from of the largest industrial areas of the city. Eagle Junction to Pinkenba amounted to The line I am interested in, from Eagle June· £16.7,828, whilst the Yeerongpilly-Kurabv tion to Ascot, is ultimately going to be a line showed a revenue of only £39,769. All very important link between the main line I ask" is that the Minister give very serious and this large industrial area. consideration to the provision of railway Before making further reference to that I facilities to meet the rapdly expanding indus­ want to touch on a remark made by the hon. trial centre beyond Ascot, by duplicating the member for Aubigny, who referred to the line between Eagle Junction and Ascot, a general manager of the Southern Division distance of ll1 miles. With that duplication and the Commissioner. I have never had the one of the worst features of the traffic in honour or privilege of meeting the Commi.s· the metropolitan area would be eliminated. sioner, because in my early days in the department I was in another section from When I was a child about 50 years ago, go­ that in which he was serving. He must be a ing to the Eagle Junction State school, I proud man at having reached the highest went backwards and forwards over the over­ position in the department after having spent bridge at the end of what is now known as a lifetime in it. We are all of opinion that Kitchener road, then known as Franz road. Cabinet made a very wise choice in giving As I looked down from that overbridge I was this office to a senior member of the staff always impressed by the switchback nature who has spent a lifetime in studying the of the line from Eagle Junction to Hendra; system. It has been done in the past and I today that switchback line still remains. If hope it will be done in the future. I lis­ the Minister and his Government will give tened With interest to the remarks of the consideration to the duplication of that link hon. member for Aubigny but at the same they will of necessity eliminate that switch­ time I should not presume to suggest whom back railway and abolish the shocking level Cabinet should select as the next Commissioner crossing at Clayfield railway gates. It is on when in the course of time the present Com­ a main arterial road to the North Coast and missioner retires but if they do choose the when a train pulls in at the railway station, present general manager, Mr. Moriarty, they will have a man who will have at least 10 especially at holiday time or at week-ends, years or more of useful service ahead of him the traffic is held back for half to three­ before reaching the retiring age. Probably quarters of a mile each way. In these he is one of the most efficient officers in the modern days that sort of thing should not department. I have known him since child­ be happening. If the Minister can find the hood. We joined the department on the same money for a duplication in the metropolitan day together and we served in the Army area that will produce no more revenue, surely together. At one time I was his senior and he will provide an additional amount of at a later date I was his junior. He is in money for that line of li miles that would my opinion one of the most efficient men in link a big industrial area with the city. the service and I hope that when the time comes, on the retirement of the present Com­ I, wish the hon. member for Nundah were missioner, he will receive very serious con­ present just now because I am sure he would sideration from Cabinet for the. position. say, "Hear, ht;ar!" to every word I utter. He is as consciOus as I am of the develop­ I can talk now about that important rail­ ment that has gone on in that area from way link that runs through my electorate. It Ascot to Pinkenba. He is also aware that is difficult to make suggestions to the Minister one miserable little station there, Whinstanes, 1404 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. earns something like £81,000 a year in painted bright, attractive colours, which in revenue. That is the amount of revenue that the first place make them look clean and in comes to the department as a result of the the second place appeal to the eye. goods going to that district, oil and so on. l'IIr. Power: But look at the Brisbane The duplication of that line is an urgent trams and the Sydney trams. necessity and with it must come the elimina­ tion of the railway crossing at Clayfield. Mr. H. B. TAYLOR: I am not going to The crossing at Hendra station may be a be diverted from the question before the more difficult problem. Committee by the lead given by the Secretary JUr. Duggan: Speaking from memory, for Public Works, or I shall be called to the elimination of the Clayfield crossing order very .promptly. involves a 16-foot drop of the line. I am offering to the Minister the sugges­ tion that not only should he brighten the lUr. H. B. TAYLOR: That would then locomotives, painting some a bright red and give us the probability of a level line instead the metropolitan ones a royal blue, which we of that switchback railway. Probably a applaud, but he should also do something to bridge could be built over which the traffic brighten our railway stations, the seats on could flow from the city to the North Coast the platforms, and generally give some con­ without interruption. To a southern visitor, ,sideration to the value of an appeal to the accumstomed to a regular flow of traffic, it eye of the travelling public. would then appear that at least we had got up to date at that particular crossing. I again urge the Minister and l1is Covern­ Hendra crossing, on level ground, is obviously ment to give serious consideration to the a more difficult problem. duplication of that very short length of 1! miles of railway from Eagle ,T unction to The electrification of our suburban rail­ Ascot, and the lowering of the line to elimin­ ways came before this Chamber two years ate the level crossing at Clayfield, because ago. There again one appreciates the fact a far-sighted Government should realise that that the shortage of materials has obviously the industrial area of Brisbane is rapidly delayed the Minister, but we have heard so developing round the eastern end of the city little of this scheme that I am inclined to between Ascot and Pinkenba, and it will need believe that this article, written by Mr. H. these improved railway facilities and that J. Summers, in the "Courier-Mail" of extra ease of communication. 22 September last and headed, ''Is electrifi­ cation just a carroU" is probably close to Mr. LUCKINS (Maree) (12.7 p.m.): I the truth. take this opportunity of getting on the train again, as there are certain mat~ers peeuliar The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. to the Southern Division to which I wish to Keyatta) : Order! We are not dealing with refer. I support the proposal of the hon. electrification. member for Hamilton to duplicate the line between Eagle Junction and Pinkenba. Hon. Mr. H. B. TAYLOR: May I submit that members must agree that inuustrial f!evelop­ we are dealing with the Southern Division ment is spreading towards the mouth of the of the railways, in which is included the river, and the only way in which the railways metropolitan area, and consequently a can give industry the service it deserves is reference to electrification of the railways in to duplicate the line. the metropolitan area would be in orded I have been on trains for no other reason The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! than to find out for myself the actual working The motion deals only with existing railways. of trains, from the engine to the guard's The motion asks that £8,015,760 be granted van, and I have been amazed to hear com­ for ''Department of Railways-Southern petent men say that our engines are in a bad Division.'' state of repair. I know the engines of the Southern Division are very old. Actually, Mr. H. B. TAYLOR: I always submit to they are out of date and in such a bad state the ruling of the Chair, but I think at this of repair, because they were worked continu­ stage the Chair should allow the debate to ously during the war period, that they are be broad enough to deal with matters that responsible for the many difficulties encoun­ relate to the metropolitan area of the tered in train movements. Engine-drivers and Southern Division. However; I make that firemen find it extremely difficult to drive remark in passing, and will not further deal these locomotives because they lose steam. with electrification. I was more than pleased to hear the hon. I congratulate the Minister on his proposal member for Buranda call attention to the to ·brighten up the railways. I disagme level crossing at Woolloongabba. That is one entirely with the hon. member for Munding­ section of our city that is deserving of the burra. greatest possible consideration from the Com­ JUr. Aikens: You think that fine feathers missioner for Railways. Three arterial high­ make fine birds~ ways carrying the greatest number of vehicles of all kinds and passengers pass through Mr. H. B. TAYLOR: No. I believe that there. We have within a radius of half a an improved colour scheme has an appeal to mile three railway lines blocking these high­ the public and to the railway officers serving vvays; causing dis.turbance ~nd annoyance to the people. Compare the position here with the public. It mrght surpnse hon. members that of the southern States. For instance, to know that within that short distance those in Sydney tramway-seats and park-seats are lines travel over eight streets, two of which Supply. [8 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1405 are main arterial highways. This has been I do not believe in small wages and I am going on for the last 50 years. As the hon. alarmed to think that there are small-wage member representing that part of South men in the department at Northgate or any­ Brisbane I am surprised at the long delay where else. What is wrong with the depart­ that the Government have allowed to occur ment~ I do not think the hon. member's before doing something to rectify this nuis­ statement is correct. The hon. member should ance. When I was an alderman of the Bris­ be more careful in his statements, he should bane City Council I moved to have a committee make himself conversant with the conditions appointed to investigate the possibilities of in the department before he comes into this removing this level crossing. That was away Chamber to let off what is apparently a lot back in 1937, 1938 and 1939. The committee of hot air. When he makes a statement on consisted of representatives of the Traffic Branch of the railways, the Government, Bris­ a subject that he knows nothing about he is bane City Council, and the Police Commis­ apt to give the public a wrong impression. I should like to tell him in a kindly way that sioner's Department. A report Wt}S made and although I have not seen a copy I believe it I have had many years of experience in this is now in the Commissioner for Railways' Chamber and I am prepared to advise him office and that it pointed out that the aboli­ in the execution of his parliamentary duties. tion of the Woolloongabba crossings was a I regret very much indeed that be should have very urgent need in the metropolitan area. I said there are small-wage men at Northgate. do not want to labour the question any fur­ He has not yet denied the statement or quali­ ther, as I do not want to place any greater fied it. I should have thought that in the burden on the department than it has to bear interests of the community he would have today but I ask the Minister fairly and qualified it, otherwise the people may regard squarely, in the interests of the development it as an indictment on his Government. It of South Brisbane, what is going to be done~ is a statement that might well hit the head­ It is not right for one hon. member to speak lines and so injure his Government. He on this question; all hon. members who have should be very careful. the interest and welfare of that part of Bris­ bane at heart should support my remarks, Mr. Roberts: You admit that they do not especially when I say that the present get the same income as you and I~ conditions are retarding the progress of South Brisbane. How long is this menace going to JUr. LUCKINS: The hon. member's income is bigger than mine because he is a continue~ The matter has been under public review for the past 40 years. lawyer and he can charge heavy fees, whereas I am limited in my fees by Government There were alternative proposals, I under­ regulation. stand, the first being to make a deviation from Vulture Street railway station underground I conclude by repeating my suggestion for to the railway wharves at Dock Street, and the removal of level crossings at South Bris­ from there to the yards at Woolloongabba. It bane and I trust that I shall have the was estimated some 20 years ago that the unanimous support of hon. members, both cost would be £40,000. I am speaking from those who represent the south side and those memory, at the moment, of what was con­ who represent the north side. Anything that tained in the report published by the South we can do to develop the city from any view­ Brisbane Advance League some 20 years ago. point should have the wholehearted support The cost now, I understand, is estimated at of every hon. member. Anyone who will go £200,000. I suggest that the Minister have over to see the level crossing at Woolloon­ a further survey made and consider the possi­ gabba can see the railway man waving the bility of having a tunnel put through or an red light at night and the red flag in the overhead bridge built running over Grey da.y time, which must serve to remind the Street and Stanley Street. Nothing could be onlooker that here is something that has been more disturbing than the present level cross­ handed down to us for 50 or 60 years but ing at Woolloongabba and I do not know of should now be replaced by an underground any city in the world that has to contend with or overhead railway system. The level cross­ such a menace in a commercial area. The ing should be removed in the interests of trains running over the level crossing are a the fast-moving traffic that plies in this area menace. to the lives of pedestrians and a source of annoyance to the fast-moving traffic today. Sometimes traffic is held up for 10 that now uses these highways in that area to minutes or more while trains are crossing a growing extent because of the abolition of Main Street, Stanley Street, Logan Road, tolls on the Story Bridge. Ipswich Road, and Stanley Street East. The hon. member for Nundah referred to lUr. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Nanango) some small-wage men at the railway work­ (12.19 p.m.): I should like to ask the shops at N orthgate. I did not know that Minister some questions under the heading of there were any small-wage men in the Rail­ engineering and specifically whether the in­ way Department. I should like the hon. crease of four in the engineering branch will member to clarify his statement. be sufficient to cope with the development that will be necessary on that side of the Mr. Roberts: I said they were in the lower income group. work in the Southern Division. It seems to me that an increase of four on the staff is Mr. LUCKINS: It is very disturbing to quite inadequate. There are many things to say that there are small-wage men in the be done, although the Minister has carried out Railway Department. I can say frankly that a fairly satisfactory task in many respects. 1406 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

He has placed orders for new rolling­ road transport we cannot help feeling that stock; and he has begun something that is new this tragic state of affairs does exist and has for Labour Governments to do in recent years. existed because of the inability of many He has showed some initiative, in that he is Labour members to measure up to their preparing to lay down certain railway lines. responsibilities. They think they can, but I am disturbed because he is evidently not their past records do not prove this. The contemplating very much f\Jrther develop· Minister is capable of running his office at a ment in the Southern Division. That is high degree of efficiency. I do not seek to evident when we consider that these Estimates discredit him personally. make provision for only four additions to ~he staff in the Civil Engineering Branch. It Their record during the past years, how­ 1~ not that I am advocating or suggesting ever, shows that the Government are not further overloading of civil servants-far capable of shouldering their responsibility in from it-but in progressive expansion and the development of this State. For it does take development I think it is a definite advantage courage and foresight to realise that there is to the whole State. a big need for further development and. to see that something is done to satisfy that The Minister should give earnest and need. It is not sufficient to say that you favourable consideration to undertaking realise there is a need and still do nothing further progressive work, such as the con­ about it, not even bring it to the blue-print struction of new lines in other areas. Firstly, stage. The proper action is not only to say there are those which are known as the miss­ you are going to do something, but to see ing links in various parts of the State. that it is done. llfr. Brand: One is from Nanango to I am sure the Minister must realise the Yarraman. necessity, the advantage, and the importance lUr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: That is of the various rail links that are now missing. correct. There are several others also. I Take Yarraman to Nanango, a mere distance cannot help thinking that the Minister, of 14 miles. All the produce from the together with other Labour Ministers and Kingaroy end of the South Burnett has to hon. members, lack a real country outlook go through Gympie and come down the and experience because they have been heavily-loaded North Coast line, which is brought up in the city. They consequently already congested. That condition of affairs fail to ralise-or are not capable of realising has been allowed to continue, all for the the importance of such rail connections. It sake of a length of 14 miles between these seems that their views are often bounded by two centres. The Minister knows the amount the horizon of this city. They put a strangle­ of produce and the numbers of stock railed hold on motor transport and turn down any from the Kingaroy end of the South Burnett suggestions to give a satisfactory service to every year, and it is probably one of the the rural community by way of truck and most profitable sections of the railways. car. Yet they wonder why the people will not The people of Kingaroy have the same old stay in the country! Yet they talk about station that has been there since the railway decentralisation l While the Minist·er does went there. The trains pull in in the same not supply what can be called a satisfactory old way as they did 40 years ago, blocking train service for the conveyance of passengers, the traffic from the town. I believe that a people who desire to ply motor transport in railway station for that area is in the blue­ the country areas are prevented from supply· print stage. Whether that conveys more to ing such a service because the Government the Minister than to me or the public gen­ say it is not necessary. I myself have made erally, they as well as I would like to know. applications in this respect but they have been I should like to know, if the Minister can refused on the grounds that they are entirely tell us, whether we are going to get our new unnecessary. The people in the country cannot railway station. I can assure the Minister be blamed if they wonder why the metropoli­ that it is urgently required. When you con­ tan area is served with a quarterly or h8lf­ sider the primitive conditions under which the hourly rail services, in addition to other forms men in the railway goods shed and office of transport. Can you wonder thau hon. work, it would be a fine gesture if the Gov­ members representing country constituencies ernment could do something before the cen­ always _criticise Ministers for being bound by tenary celebrations of that town, which will the honzon of the city~ take place in the near future. Perhaps the Minister will say that it is of no There is also need for a rail link between value or use to employ more engineers as the South Burnett and the Downs. No doubt it is impossible to carry out construction the Minister is aware- of that. Those are work because of the shortage of material ami two very important primary-producing centres, lack of man-power and high costs. I want to not only for this country but for the feeding emphasise the fact that the Minister is one of of Great Britain. I realise that there can be those who in this Chamber advocated high costs only one link here, between Bell and Kingaroy and shortages when he supported the 40-hour or Cooyar and Tarong. The best route could week. He was quite aware of that fact when easily be determined. It is necessary to give he did so and he has only himself to bl~·m" the greatest stimulation to production of com­ now when he is confronted with the result. modities that can be exported and at present The tragedy of the whole thing is that th' these t,,-o very important producing areas are country as a whole has to suffer for it. Vlhn" partly isolated because of the missing link. we consider this aspect of the great import­ I assure the Minister that the people would ance of planning rail development and not be agitating for these links if they were adopting a more realistic attitude towards not a necessity. I trust he realises their Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1407

importance and I appeal to him to give always so, of course, and men who want to serious conisderation to employing men in devote their time to beautifying the surround­ the civil-engineering branch of the depart­ ings of railway stations should receive every ment to concentrate on doing something in encouragement to do so. the near future. The construction of these links would contribute to the development The appointment of a Commissioner for of the State and Commonwealth. Railways will come up for review presently; Mr. Maloney, the present Commissioner, will Mr. LOW (Cooroora) (12.30 p.m.): After be retiring at an early date. It would be listening to the replies given to various hon. highly advisable to appoint a young man to members by the Minister for Transport, and that position. It takes a number of years to noting all the work that has to be put in understand the full ramifications of the rail­ hand in connection with rolling-stock and the way service, and a young man would have his modernising of the railways in general, I life ahead to carry out the plans that he would ask him where he proposes to get thinks should be put into operation. the necessary :finance to carry out this work. It is known that revenue is not always suffi­ I agree with the hon. member for Mary­ dent to meet expenditure, and the rehabilita­ borough and the hon. member for Mackay, tion of the railways referred to will cost a who have suggested that the Commissioner tremendous sum of money. The Minister should have the right to appoint general himself has referred to the shortage of labour, managers, locomotive engineers, maintenance sleepers, and rolling-stock, and said that the engineers, district superintendents, and other Government have decided that additional rail­ high-ranking administrative officers, because way construction will not be undertaken until if he had the authority he would see to it a decision is made on the standardisation of that he appointed only men of ability and Australian railway gauges. I now ask the capacity, and much better results would Minister: is the standardisation of gauges accrue than under the present system. determined once and for all~ A matter that has often been discussed in Tailway circles is the improvement that could JUr. Roberts: He dealt with it the other day. be effected by giving the Commissioner greater authority to expend certain sums on lUr. LOW: The Minister made reference improving the service. This could apply to to it, but I should like to know whether the general managers also. If they were given decision is final; whether the railways of this authority many unnecessary delays would Queensland will not be altered to the uniform be avoided. gauge W The Federal Government are very Another thing that is causing irritation and keen to get their hands on the State railways dissatisfaction is the attitude of the Brisbane :for the purpose of controlling in the interests office towards amenities ·and improvements to of the Commonwealth, and as standardisation cottages, stations, and other buildings in out­ is wr.apped up in the extension of railways and side areas. The employees have the impres­ the building of much-needed links it is very sion that the Works Clerk in the Brisbane important that we should know what the office is over-anxious to cut down expenditure. decision on unification is to be. This leads to discontent, especially when little things that could be granted are often refused. 1Ir. Power: There is nothing about I suggest that the Minister give this matter standardisation in the vote for the Southern serious consideration. Division. Some 18 months ago I asked the Minister Mr. LOW: Standardisation of guage to give consideration to the erection of a applies to all sections of the Queensland rail­ building at a little siding called Kulangoor. way. The Minister should make a definite It is only a small place, but last year 896 statement on the matter.· passengers joined the train there. Most of them were school children and it is not right I again emphasise the neec1 for giving that these little children should be required greater consideration to the Inventions and to stand out in the heat and rain at an Suggestions Board. Every encouragement unattended station. Some shelter should be should be given to the employees to make provided for them. It would not cost much useful suggestions, and they should be but the benefit derived by these kiddies would adequately compensated for doing so. be great. The Minister has told us that the unions Beautification of railway stations has not have not replied in full to the questionnaire received the consideration it deserves. Of he sent to them on superannuation. This course, in many respects this can be attributed matter is of grave concern to all railway to the shortage of staff, because the men in employees and the decision should not be left charge of stations are not able to devote the with union executives. I suggest that if the necessary time to planting trees and shrubs Minister arranged to take a vote of all and the cultivation of gardens. It has also employees in the service he would be been noted that when a man is enthusiastic astounded at the result. enough to give his time to beautifying his Another matter of importance to the station some over-zealous inspector comes to employees of the department is the amount the conclusion that because this man has had of recreation leave that is outstanding at the time to beautify his station there must be a moment. I know that shortage of staff is surplus of staff at that station. That is not aggravating the difficulty but an enormous 1408 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. amount of leave is outstanding. Although deprives the ordinary citizens of housing union executives oppose the payment of a accommodation. The Government should lump sum in lieu of part of this leave, I embark on a scheme to provide accommodation cannot see any alternative to it. for railway employees and make it a con­ Chatting to a station-master this morning clition of transfer that the employees shall occupy these houses at a rental to be agreed on the way down to Brisbane he told me that upon between the employer and the employee. he had 4~ months' annual leave due to him. That would obviate some of the long delays That is not long-service leave. An enormous that now occur in connection with tran8'fers amount of leave is outstanding and I feel and the proposal would be viewed favour­ that the men have some justification in ask­ ably by the men. ing for payment in respect of some of that leave. They could put the money to good I was pleased to read the statement by the use by buying conveniences :for their homes. Minister on 18 July last that favourable C?n­ sideration was being given to the constructwn It would appear from speeches made by of the link from Brooloo to W oodford. Sooner hon. members that there were no late trains or later the line from Caboolture to Gympie whereas there is in fact a section of the will have to be duplicated and the construction department known as the late-train depart­ of the Brooloo-Woodforc1 link would relieve ment. Trains are delayed for various the line of considerable traffic and at the same reasons; and this section investigates all time open up a big area of fertile land for delays and seeks methods of improvement of primary production. the service. Statistics within the department as to the number of late trains :favour the I am glad that the department has ~ade department because when a train is running provision for the building of a new :·3;rlwll:y late general managers are in the habit of station at Cairns and that some provrsron rs cancelling such trains and putting them on also being made for a new railway station a new running. Such a late train does not at Rockhampton. .I trus.t that when t~e ~inis­ show as such but as a new train and there­ ter is giving consrclerat10n to the bmldmg of fore the statistics for late trains are not other new railway stations he will bear. N am­ quite accurate and do not give a true reflec­ hour in mind. It is in the centre of an rmpor­ tion of times. tant tourist district as well as one of vast The elimination of crossing gates is a primary production and a new railway matter of great concern. Requests have been station would be an advantage to both thP made from time to time for the elimination public and the staff of the department. I of crossing gates and the building of over­ hope he will give favourable cons~dera~ion to head bridges. I understand that this matter the preparation of plans and speCifications in has been referred to the Co-ordinator-General the near future. of Public Works. If the Railway Depart­ During the 1948 railway strike a number ment made a contribution towards the build­ of services were curtailed and some were can­ ing of overhead bridges it would be saved a celled. There is still one train that has not good deal of money over the years ahead vet been restored and that is the 12.20 p.m. because in many instances the wives of passenger train to Brisbane on Saturdays. This fettlers are detailed to act as station-mis­ train was a great convenience to peopl~ who tresses and gatekeepers. If overhead-bridge work in sawmills and shops and factones on facilities were provided, the houses now Saturday morning and I hope that it will be occupied by fettlers would become available restored as soon as possible. A number of to the department for rental. Gatekeepers people like to visit Brisbane for the week-end do not want to retain this class of employ­ but at the present time when they knock off ment. I know of a lady in charge of a gate work at 12 o'clock there is no train to Bris­ at Yandina who was called upon to open and bane until about 3 o'clock in the afternoon. close her gate 80 times in a day. The service This train was well patronised in the past both is a 24-hour one on seven days each week. by people who wished to visit Brisbane for At night the husband is expected to open and the week-end and by others who worked on the shut gates, and with a broken sleep is not North Coast in seaJsonal occrupations and iit for work next day. wished to visit their families at the week-encl. The provision of overhead bridges would Again I remind the Minis.te~ t~at it is. the help movement of traffic generally. It is not little things that count and It IS t~e ht~le fair to expect the station-master at Cooroy things that can be attended to. I remmc1 hrm to attend to gates and be running continually that there are two tunnels on the North Coast to and fro to open them, because he has to but there are no lights in the carriages when attend to signals and the receipt and dispatch the train passes through during the daytime. of trains. On some occasions when the gates H is very annoying to the travelling public are closed for 10 or 15 minutes at a stretch who may be reaclinrr or doing S'Omething else as many as 20 and 30 vehicles are waiting on to have these blackouts as the train travels both sides to get through. I hope the Min­ through the tunnels. The difficulty could Qe ister will do all he can to provide overhead overcome by switching on the lights at Palm­ bridges, particularly one at Cooroy and south woods and turning them off at Lanclsborough. of Yandina. 'rhat would be a great advantage to the trav:el­ The housing of departmental employees is ling puhlie. In Brisbane the li~hts in the trams another matter requiring attention, because are switched on at BrunsW1ck Street as a in many instances when railway men go_ to a convenience in travelling through the tunnels given centre they take up all the avmlable and turned off at Roma Street. There is no housing accommodation. Naturally that reason why the lights on the North Coast Supply. [8 NOVElmER.) Supply. 1409 train could not be switched on by the staff at Another point I wish to mention is the Palmwoods which is a watering station and establishment of a rail-motor service on the turned off at the refreshment room station at Kyogle line, which I know is owned by the Lands borough. New South Wales Government and this Government. For 25 or 30 miles on the When travelling in North Queensland Kyogle line there are a number of rural indus­ recently my attention was drawn to the fact tries, such as poultry-breeding and timber­ that no excursion fares were issued beyond getting, and so on, and the people up to the Rockhampton for the Queensland Industries 30-mile point have no other means of com­ Fair held in Brisbane. This is a matter that munication with the city other than by train; should receive the consideration of the there is no bus service, and the railway line Minister. The fair was a very important is lying idle most of the time and could be event and if a similar fair is held at any other used to give a service by rail-motor from the centre it would be an advantage to the 30-mile point on the · Kyogle line to South people if excursion fares were issued. People Brisbane. I understand the Commissioner living close to the fair should not be the only has not thought that service to be justified ones to benefit by it. up to now, but I ask the Minister to give the matter special consideration because it will Some time ago the Minister announced that be the means of developing that area and he was considering a revision of freights taking the people further from the Brisbane and fares with a view to placing them on a area. much better basis. I hope when his decision Mr. Aikens: Take them right out to the is announced it will be seen that they are country. not loaded against the country 'and that the people living in the cities and towns will at Mr. KERR: This will be decentralising least make their fair contribution to the them. I am fully satisfied that it is justified department's revenue under the revised and I ask the Minister to give further con­ schedule, and that those living in the country sideration to it. will not carry the greater burden. The last revision ·gave an advantage to the city people. When dealing with the main vote, I raised In any case, the increase in freight and rail the question of the electrification of our fares has reached saturation point and some suburban railways. I know the difficulty that other form of taxation should be devised to exists just now owing to the lack of man­ power and materials but I should like the build up the finances of the department. Minister to tell the Committee the present Mr. KERR (Oxley) (12.53 p.m.): A large position. All the citize;ns of Brisbane are sum of money is involved in the votes for still wondering whether anything will be done this department, amounting to about 60 per in their lifetime to modernise and speed up cent. of the expenditure of the whole of the Brisbane suburban trains. The electrifica­ tiO

members of the Opposition saying that such them ancl the drivers were able to demon­ a person lacked matmity or some other dis­ strate to him that certain schedules could not qualification. It is obvious that it is im­ be kept up and so he amended them. possible to satisfy all the critics but I can Mr. Moriarty has ridden on engines where assure the hon. member for Aubigny that defective running of a section of the line has there are many men half Mr. Maloney's age developed. If running time is lost he has who do not possess the drive, initiative and asked the driver or fireman the Teasons ancl it energy that he has and that he can show has been proved to him that they were solely them many points in that respect. I do not due to some defect in the locomotive ancl not take full credit or even most of the credit to the train crew. We have other officials who for the programme laid down by the Railway have graduated from the rank of drivers and Department from time to time. The Commis­ others who have reported on train speeds. sioner, as the chief executive officer of the If we find that speeds can be increased with department, tenders advice to me from time safety action is taken to amend the schedule to time. I have not had the training or the accordingly. If men are late on their various experience to fully understand the detailed sections it is with respect to those actions operation of the railway department but I that the ''Please Explain'' is sent out. accept the information tendered to me, and Drivers are then expected to furnish reasons I expect the Commissioner and the high why these delays occur. executive officers in accordance with the highest and best traditions of the Public It is not to the department's advantage Service, to tender to me as Minister informa­ to encourage men to be late. It is true tion that will be helpful in the prosecution that after a certain period detention and implementation of railway policy. time and meal time have to be paid. If anything of that kind is going on It is my prerogative and function to help improperly it is not with the encourage­ my Cabinet colleagues to lay clown policy in ment or connivance of the department; it is the light of information asked for and pro­ purely the fault of a very small percentage of viclecllargely through the medium of the Com­ train crews who may be hungering for money. missioner and his chief administrative officers. That position will be closely examined by the I do count myself fortunate in having a man department and wherever possible train . who has the ability to help me with advice in schedules will be adhered to. When our loco­ those problems. I will, in the course of my motives are put back into trafficable con­ remarks, deal with the submissions of the dition less trouble will be experienced with hon. member for Munclingburra. It is a our schedules. At present it is necessary to favourable medium for people who are propa­ keep some engines in use for longer than is gandists to try to set up that there is a divi­ desirable. We hope that when the position in sion between Ministers of the Government and our workshops improves a scheduling system some of their executive officers. We do not will operate so that we will know in advance ask our senior officers what their politics are. that a particular engine will be required at Some of our best officers may not have any a,specifiecl time to receive workshop attention. Labour sentiments. We are not concerned with It is desirable that we should have some that. All we are concerned with is that the method of regular maintenance of that kind. policy laid down by the Government shall be loyally and faithfully carried out. As I said, We cannot introduce it at the present time I do not know the politics of many of our. because we cannot withdraw engines suffi­ senior officers. I do not seek to find out what ciently long from traffic to establish that they are. It is no business of mine. They do systematic method of maintenance. It is the not mention their political sentiments in their object we have in view, however, and the discussions with me. workshops superintendent knows it. We have laid it clown. In the new workshops at Ips­ The hon. member for Aubigny made the wich we are making provision for a system astounding statement that we penalise of control that will enable us to turn out train crews who come in ahead of engines more quickly and see that they a~e schedule ancl when they come in late they maintained to a given standard. When that 1s are encouraged by being paid for over­ possible of implementation there will be a time and a meal hour. That is entirely greater prospect of having trains run to time. untrue. It is true that we have a schedule to which train crews are required to adhere as The hon. member for Mundingburra, as is closely as possible, particularly on single­ his custom, engaged in flamboyant language. I track lines, because fettlers and other workers clo not mind the hon. member's quoting from on the line would be endangered if the train practical experience and offering suggestions came over their sections except at the given that we can usefully apply, if he confined his time. If the train was ten minutes ahead of remarks to the question of lighter trains and time we can well imagine the danger to the faster speeds-these are useful contributions fettlers and other workers in cuttings, on and from that point of view he is entitled curves ancl at places of that kind. Many of the schedules have been drawn up by com­ to respect-but he spoils his case by petent officers as a result of tests. Mr. overpainting the picture and by gross Moriarty, when 'Traffic Superintendent at exaggeration. Roma, called the drivers together with Mr. Plunkett: Do you think he over­ a view to getting certain improvements on painted those engines~ (Laughter.) the Roma to Mungallala and Morven tQ Mitchell sections. They said, "No, we can­ Mr. DUGGAN: That is the point I am not.'' Mr. Moriatry rode on the engine with coming to. If he had some criticism to offer Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1413

of the policy of the department in painting vehicle that influences decisions, matter engines, that is his opinion, and he is entitled and argument too are accorded a very high to it; but he goes on and talks about having place. According to the rules of debate, lavender coaches and dyed train crews and 60 points are recorded to matter and of certain perfumes, and then he spoils the :ugument out of a maximum of 100 points. whole picture. It is always so with the hon. If the hon. member for Mundingburra were member. If he stuck to his objection to the to be assessed on his :fluency, rhetoric, painting of locomotives, I should have no gestures and mimicry, he would rate very {{Uarrel with him. If he confined his con· high but on matter and argument he would tribution to the debate to saying that we are not register many points at all. wrong in our policy of having a Sunshine The hon. member states that we ignore Express, of a certain length that would be all the practical men. At Ipswich we right-that is his opinion. However, the sug­ encounter very great problems in pro­ gestion has been examined before and it has duction and repair of rolling-stock, and been rejected because on the balance of argu­ I established a production committe consist­ ment we decided to continue the present ing of representatives of the various shops. practice. This committee meets every fortnight iu the office of the mechanical engineer to consider The hon. member went on to say that it production problems in this great workshops. would be better if, instead of talking about Before we place any tender, before we embark the painting of engines, I got down to the on any big building programme the capacity real fundamental problems and give considera­ of the Ipswich workshops to undertake the tion to speed and comfort. Those very production is discussed by representatives factors were enumerated on the Chief Office of the men with a full sense of respon· vote; those very things were laid down as sibility. They are taken into the confidence being cardinal, fundamental principles in of the administration in all our problems. rehabilitating the railways-their speed and These are things which are taken into comfort, rail-motor trains entirely different consideration from time to time. On the and more conveniently built, new types of question of locomotives, I arranged with locomotives, regrading and duplication and Mr. Kissick, who was not at all favourably improved signalling. They were for the pur· disposed towards this Government-his pose of giving increased speed and added criticism being vigorously against us-to comfort and convenience. He said that the go on more than one occasion to Ipswich whole of my time was spent in defending the 1and there int,erview the chief workshops Railway Department and saying how progres­ engineer and the superintendent to discuss sive we were because we proposed to paint modifications of engines, certain alterations locomotives. That is the sort of exaggeration thought to be desirable either for mainten­ to which I object. ance or the comfort of the crew. I have arranged for the general manager to take Then he says-getting hold of a volume­ out certain of his engineers to te~t out "This is what the private member for Too­ safety equipment, signal devices on the woomba said in 1946, the member who has range, the question whether electric head· the split personality that seems to pervade lights should or should not be dimmed on all Ministers and to permeate those who have entering station&, and so on. These matters been transferred from the back benches to form the subject of conferences of the front benches.'' He said I got up and practical men and administrative officers of condemned the administration for ignoring the department but the hon. member, in the advice of practical men and now was my that flourishing way common to him, says opportunity to implement the suggestions I we ignore these men and take no notice of made as a private member but that I had them. We have a suggested improvements done nothing. What have we done in this branch where these suggestions are care· f\u1ly analysed. I receive d'lputations regard~ frequently-not spasmodically or periodic­ Mr. Aikens: Nothing. ally, but frequently-from the unions where Mr. DUGGAN: That is typical of the hon. men who are actually on the job suggest member and indicative of his abysmal that the efficiency of the department might ignorance of what is being done. If the be improved by the adoption of this, that, hon. member put in more time in keeping or some other method. The allegation that in touch with the department he served we ignore the men is completely fantastic ]nstead of coming in here and relying on and untrue. fluency he would be much better employed. The hon. member for Hamilton referred There was a time, as I mentioned before, to the elimination of the railway level when I was influenced by considerations of crossing at Clay:field and the duplication of fluency but when I found it was not allied a section of the line in this area. The with sound logical argument, I ceased to general question of eliminating railway be very interested. The other day I read crossings, particularly in the metropolitan in the ''Sunday Mail'' that the hon. area-and I mention the metropolitan area member was the great orator in the House. because there is a greater flow of traffic Perhaps he is, as far as political demagogy iu the metropolitan area, not because the ie concerned but, after all, if one goes to problem is peculiar to the metropolitan any debating society, court of law or any­ area but merely that the hazards are where where the spoken language is the greater by virtue of the greater traffic-is 1949-2x 1414 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

a problem confronting railway administra­ Mr. Macdonald: You have to consider the tions in many countries. Only last night factor of the law of averages. I read ,an articl€ that appeared in the Melbourne '' Argus'' last week on the Mr. DUGGAN: I agree. Very frequently, elimination of three dangerous level cross­ if there is a dangerous road corner, as for ings in Melbourne. It was estimated that instance the dangerous overhead bridge at to eliminate these three crossings alone Helidon, those who traverse the road know would cost £750,000 and it was argued that that it is dangerous and exercise a good deal there should be a national fund from which more care than they do at another point, the cost of progressively eliminating rail­ where they are inclined to take risks. There way crossings could be defrayed. I under­ should be a realisation on the part of the stand that is the practice followed in people using vehicles that they should apply Canada. safety-first principles before they cross any level crossing. If there was a greater aware­ The attitude of the Railway Department ness of the danger and a greater apprecia­ here is that access was provided when the tion of the foolish irresponsibility of trying railway line was built. The people built to beat a train or ignoring the ''stop'' sign around the railway and knew at all times before approaching a rail crossing the of the difficulties of access. By building fatalities at level crossings would be very 11oun;d them they 'have, been contributing many fewer than they are at present. I am factors to the difficulty and not the Rail­ not unmindful of the very strong demand way Department at all. Because of the there is for conveniences to facilitate the flow financial cost involved, we will not accept of traffic and I am also mindful of the safety ~he expense of eliminating railway eross­ factor, which is an important consideration, mgs, except where we can effect some but I ask the hon. member to bear with me Sll;Ving. For instance, recently we arranged when I say that we believe first thing-s should w1th the Main Road& Commission to defray come first and those other things will have to pa!t of the cost of erecting an overhead be delayed a little longer. bndge at Lawnton because it meant the saving of a gatehouse-keeper. We applied I agree with the hon. member for Hamilton the_ yearly &alary and the upkeep of her that there is a case for duplication of the residence towards the amortisation of the line, particularly, between Eagle Junction and capital cost involved. Whinstanes. The department believes that there is a case for the duplication of that TJ:le same applies to the Bowen Bridge line but unfortunately at present we are proJeCt. That was a very costly job. The committed to- Railway Department accepted some of the The duplication of the Kuraby section; financial responsibility there because we were able to effect a good many savings in the Clermont regrading; provision of safety men and of course it Mount Morgan deviation; permitted trains to pass over 'that sectio:r: of Survey of the Biloela-Callide rail link; railway a~ a. much higher rate of speed than Regrading of the North Coast line; and was permissible when the old level crossing was there. ' Reconditioning of the Etheridge railway, and it has been necessary to withdraw sur­ Mr. Sparlres: But you expect people to veyors and survey parties from certain works gather round the railways. in Queensland in order to give the highest Mr. Hiley: Would you apply the same priority to these works. principle to arterial roads~ The department regards the provision of Mr. DUGGAN: I think the principle is a third line from Corinda to Northgate and exactly the same, wherever it might be, except the duplication of the Enoggera line from that it differs only in financial cost. The Newmarket to Mitchelton as being slightly elimination of this crossing at Clayfield, as higher in priority than Eagle Junction­ the hon. member was good enough to mention Whinstanes, and on present indications I is a little simpler than the one at Hendra' should say that is the order in which the work ~here the. approaches are very different, but will be undertaken. As soon as we can get It would mvolve the lowering of the railway survey gangs reassembled, this work will track by 18 feet at Clayfield or the erection receive the attention of the department. of a rather expensive overhead bridge. In the years that lie ahead I am sure the The hon. member for Maree has again put Co-ordinator-General of Public Works will forward the question of eliminating the level recommend to the Government the progres­ crossing at Woolloongabba. The hon. mem­ sive elimination of some of these dangerous ber for Buranda raised this matter when crossings, but they are very costly proposals. speaking on the General Establishment vote last week. I informed him then, and I think Mr. Macdonald: Loss of life is even more costly. I can ·briefly recapitulate it now, there_ is also­ a case for the elimination of the level cross­ Mr. DUGGAN: That is so, but I venture ing at Wolloongabba. The department is the opinion that more people lose their lives endeavouring to mitigate the inconvenience in motor accidents on the open roads than at existing at present by the provision of flood level crossings, where the visibility is very lighting in the area. I,The Co-ardinator­ good. If the hon. member will analyse the General of Public Works, in a report fur­ statistics furnished by the Police Depart­ nished to the department, has stated that mel!-t he will find the great majority of fatal there is not a very serious impediment to accidents occur where the road surface is good traffic at this point because in a period of and where visibility is good. 24 hours not more than 60 train or engine Supply. [8 NoVEMBER.] Supply. 1415

crossings were made at Woolloongabba. The Mr. DUGGAN: I will deal with that department has bought, or is in the process of point too. buying an area of land at Tennyson for the The hon. member raised the question of the remova:l of the locomotive yards to that des­ Yarraman-Nanango link but there is a co-ordi­ tination and this will reduce the use of the nated service to the hon. member's electorate. crossing considerably. Ultimately I think the On the one hand he has asked that we pro­ unloading of coal will have to be done at vide a rail link and on the other hand has Pinkenba and this will further lessen the asked for a road-transport service that would crossings. Nevertheless, there are . many take away the revenue earned by the rail industrial establishments to be served m that link. I am not angry about this and I think area. The Pinkenba proposal is being the Leader of the Opposition will bear me examined by a committee consisting of repre­ out when I say that one day recently I was sentatives from the Railway Department, the asked to construct a rail link in the Mary Department of Co-ordinator-General of Pub· Valley and that on the same day I was asked lie Works the Department of Harbours and to provide for a road-transport system for Marine a:nd other officers. Without antici­ fruit. I :find that that is the general chrono­ pating 'that report, I am certain that ~he logical sequence of these demands. It is committee will recommend that we proVlde :first of all asked that there should be a rail facilities at Pinkenba. This would consider­ link and then they want a road-transport ably lessen the number of locomotives that service. It is very uneconomic to have both. must cross the roads at Woolloongabba. I do not want to anticipate the discussion on When we have done all these things it will the Transport Estimates, but I can say that be necessary to construct a tunnel, with the we did approve of 37 goods services before necessary line, at a cost of £200,000, to the petrol-rationing scheme came into opera­ service-- tion, which shows that we realise that there Mr. Kerr: And still carry on the railway is some ground for asking for them in some wharf system~ parts of the State. Mr. DUGGAN: We feel that when all Mr. Ejelke-Petersen: What is your policy these things come to fruition, apart from in regard to the provision of these services~ the construction of the tunnel, we shall be Mr. DUGGAN: They will come in in their able to mitigate the inconvenience, especially own good time. The hon. member does not when most of the movement of goods will be appear to appreciate the difficulties that are con:fined to the period between midnight and involved. Speaking from memory, I think early morning. It will lessen the inconveni­ a 60 lb. rail requires 100 tons of steel per ence to motorists and people in that area. mile. At the present time we have on order I have already said that it was difficult 20,000 tons of &teel rails, 490 tons of :fish to follow the workings of the minds of hon. plates, and 165 tons of clog spikes and mis­ members opposite. The hon. member for cellaneous items. It is estimated that the Nanango regretted that there was no very cost of that order will be about £779,000, great increase in the engineering personnel against the Australian price of £355,332. The of the Southern Division and stated that we Chief Mechanical Engineer informs me that should embark on a developmental project we shall require 8,700 tons of steel rails each of building up the engineering staff. If I year for the next 10 years to maintain our gave effect to his suggestions I should renewals and other work authorised at the immediately come in conflict with the hon. present time. If we need more we shall have member for Mundingburra, who says that to import more &teel rails at the higher cost. Brisbane is the baby of the Labour Govern· We gave an order in Sept'ember, 1944, for ment and the present Minister for Transport. 1,530 tons of steel rails from Broken Hill I should immediately lay myself open to a Pty. Ltd. and so far we have received only charge that we were spending large sums of 810 tons. money on beloved Brisbane to the detriment Mr. Macdonald: What mileage of rail­ of other parts of the State. I think the best way requires renewing every year~ line for us to follow is to ignore the sug­ gestions and proceed as we think fair and Mr. DUGGAN: I am making only an proper. If I tried to give effect to the con­ estimate now, and my :figure must not be flicting demands made upon me it would lead taken to be strictly accurate, but I should to chaos and confusion. &ay 40 miles. The overall steel-rail position is tragic. The Chief Mechanical Engineer of When the hon. member for Nanango said the N~w South Wales Railways told me that that we should build new rail links he at the his department would require 400,000 tons of same time says we should open up road steel rails for the next 10 years, and that they 'transport to the same areas. I :find that it were able to get only 100,000 tons from f.,~ is a problem rather difficult of solution to tralian sources. When you realise the diP<'_ my satisfaction. I receive many deputations erence between £16 10s. from local sources from gentlemen of the Opposition who advo­ and £37 10s. from abroad, you can realisP tlp cate the making of a rail link and a few tremendous increase in the cost. In addition weeks later come along with another deputa­ we shall have to import steel sleepers or tion advocating a co-ordinated service or a reinforced concrete sleepers if we cannot get road-transport service that would take ,away satisfactory wood sleepers for our present the revenue justifying the building of the requirements without involving any new rail link. major construction works at all. lUr. Bjelke-Petersen: But we do not get Mr. Hiley: Given reasonable wear and ~ither. tear, what is the estimated life of a steel rail' 1416 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. DUGGAN: That would vary accord­ pictures and music. We :find G

an earful. The person with the right apti­ within a few days I shall have some intima­ tude would learn more at a country station tion as to the time they will be back in Bris­ where he would get opportunities of observ­ bane. Mr. Mo:ffat told me that a period of ing and seeing station accounts; and he two or three months would elapse from the would assimilate the information more quickly time of his arrival here to the completion of than in the circumstances indicated by the his report and from that time it would be Leader of the Opposition. I am not saying a matter of abont a month or six weeks that he may not be right; but we have before the Government could give their examined the proposal and feel we are getting decision. more out of the scheme we are applying at the present time. In most instances, when I have arranged with the Commissioner and people go to a fairly remote area they have the chief engineer to furnish me with a report not the distractions of the cities, and they on the steps we can take to plan a proper apply themselve11 to their problems and assimi­ schedule and programme of works in the late the information available to them under event of the Government's agreeing to the much more favourable conditions than they electrification proposal. ·We have placed would in the city. inquiries with certain interested parties in England and Australia as to our probable Mr. Nicklln interjected. requirements, consequently we feel that we Mr. DUGGAN: They do not get a uniform shall not lose priority on production schedule grading. After 12 months they still have to in the event of the Government's agreeing to satisfy the department by examination that the proposal. they measure up to the standard required. We regret the necessity of having to apply It is not fair to suggest, as Mr. Summers this system. When things get back to nor­ suggested in the ''Sunday Mail,'' that elec­ mal we hope to revert to our previous trification is a political carrot dangled before method. Under the new system of classi­ the eyes of the electors. Mr. Summers him­ fication promotion is more rapid than it was self gave excellent reasons why we could not and people will realise the advantage of join­ proceed. I do not know whether the heading ing the department. They will get classi­ to the article was the work of Mr. Summers fication earlier than they would have got in or somebody in the linotype room, but it was the past. extremely misleading. The article gives very cogent reasons why the Government could not I should like to point out now-it is not altogether entirely relevant to the Southern proceed with electrification up to now. It has Division vote, but I think I shall be in order not been through any fault of the Commis­ -that tenders closed today for 1,100 VJM coal sioner, myself, or Cabinet, that we are not hoppers and 200 FJS wagons and we received in a position to announce Governmen~ plans a number of tenders from England, Germany, on this very important proposal. It 1s su:ffi· Australia and Japan. These tenders are cient to say that we are proceeding with the being examined. We shall be receiving addi­ utmost dispatch in the completion of the tional tenders, which would have reached the report. The mome~t t~at it is rec~ived ~he Agent-General in London. We feel that Government will give It early consideratiOn because of the competitive character of the and an announcement will be made by the tenders the delivery result will be a little Premier or myself. better than we might have expected a few months ago. M:r SPARJIES (Aubigny) (3.17 p.m.): .I must' say that I appreciate the ~inister 's I have been asked by the hon. member for change towards what he termed the Irrespon­ Oxley to indicate the position in regard to sible member for Aubigny. I was able to electrification. I cannot add much to what show the hon. gentleman that he is not I said the other day, that is, I thought I could infallible and does make mistakes, just as an say that the Government, without committing ordinary individual makes mistakes. I also themselves in any way to electrification, were appreciate the hon. gentleman'~ r:ma:ks in accord with the general principle, other­ about a pig's squealing when he 1s h1t Wl~h wise they would not have established the a stone. I have nothing against that: it IS commission of inquiry to report on the matter. all a matter of how the stone is thrown. Some technical considerations were outstand­ ing, however, and the obtaining of this addi­ The great majority of us get ideas during tional information involved bringing back to early life but usually these are taken .o~t Brisbane Mr. Webster, an engineer with know­ of us when at school. I have a very v1v1d ledge and experience of electrified track, and recollection of an instance of which I have Mr. Mo:ffat, a member of the commission. no hesitation in telling the Committee. When Because of circumstances entirely beyond the I was a lad I thought I was a second Jack control of the Queensland Railway Depart­ Johnson the boxer. Having had a couple of ment those officers have not been .able to victorie; I engaged in a little friendly spar return to Brisbane. I have been in touch with Mr. Garside from New South Wales. with my instructor bu~ got my ~ose broken. I have asked him to arrange for the speedy The fracture still remams as a disfigurement, return of these officers and that they be per­ but the scar is physical proof that it does mitted to remain in Brisbane until their not pay to become too conceited. Unfortun­ duties are completed. Mr. Garside has assured ately for some of us we get to the higher me that he will endeavour to send them here positions in life before we are taught the as quickly as possible. I am hopeful that lesson. 1418 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

I assure the Minister I was not making a revenue earned by suburban trains is contri· personal attack on Mr. Maloney. What I buted by first-class passengers. If it is accepted said was that the gentleman had reached the as one of the principles in favour of first­ age at which he was not given the opportunity class passenger traffic that the density of their of doing what he probably would have liked placing on the train will not be quite as to do. heavy as that of second-cla&s passengers, in other words, that you will get the benefit of a I gathered that the Minister places ability little more space if you travel first-class, 1 before seniority as ground for promotion. In say you could not subdivide a train of eight that I am right behind him. If he works on carriages trufficiently finely to set apart a that principle he has nothing to fear. But space that would be fairly related to the I am not suggesting that it was only seniority class of traffic that contributes only one­ that put Mr. Maloney in his position as Com­ sixtieth part of the total revenue of suburban missioner. I say that it is to be regretted trains. that a man of his ability was not put in his Mr. Duggan: The added revenue has position ten years ago. I hope that will not been estimated at £20,000 a year. b() the case with Mr. Moriarty. I am disappointed that the Minister made HILEY: But has consideration been no reference to his reply to the placing of given the question of cosH In earniHg that trucks at Cannon Hill. It is an important sum there has to be special shunting cost matter and I expected the hon. gentleman to because in making up the tTain to the stan­ refer to it. I take it the Minister will dard balance a carriage of first-class accommo­ dation has to be included, usually in a set inquire into it. If he does, and brings about position, and this involves a shunting hazard. tll.e improvement that is greatly needed out If there was one common class, that woulu there, I can assure him the producers and be avoided. everyone else concerned will be very pleased indeed. Then you have every station throughout the· metropolitan area and the railway audits Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­ office keeping not single sets of ticket returns Minister for Transport) (3.21 p.m.): I did but double sets of ticket return& because the not ignore the point raised, but I regret that same returns have to be prepared for nr~t­ Queensland ''Country Life,'' good as it may class as for second-cla&s. Studving th.ese be, did not bring t·hese matters before the figures, if the revenue obtained from first­ notice of the department before publishing the class passengers is only lid. a train mile, article to which the hon. member referred. there ie the very strong inference that in If these matters had been brought before our spite of the fact that the revenue might be notice we should have been very happy to £20,000 per annum, the relevant costs exceed investigate them to see whether some relief that figure. I hope that when the basic economy of handling passenger traffic is being ~ould be given. considered, particularly in relation to electri­ I asked the Commissioner to make inquiries fication, the department will seriously ask into the matter and I find that on the previous itself whether what appears to be a revenue of 'fuesday, 25 October, the shunter who was on £20,000 really means any net profit. duty from 11 o'clock the previous night is off duty at present and no information can Mr. Dnggan: I can give you that assur­ be obtained from him until he reports tonight. ance; it will be examined. However, Mr. Moriarty informs us that the ~hunter, who came on at 7 a.m. on 25 October Mr. HILEY: I observe that in New South states that no complaint whatever was made Wales, when you travel on the electrified to him of delay in placing stock. The only railways, there is no class separation and if hold-up was when operations had to stop to in a population the size of that of New clear the line for 32-Up, and 34-Up, passenger South Wales it is good economy to dispense trains to the abattoir. The station-master who with class distinction, it should justify an was at Cannon Hill at the time is away at examination of the problem here. Bundaberg. Railway refreshment rooms come within this vote, and I want to comment upon the Mr. HILEY (Logan) (3.22 p.m.): On the observations of the Minister on the proposal principal vote I had something to say about to add to the number of railway dining cars the overall economy of passenger traffic on the in the trains of the future. Again, this is a railways, and on this vote I want to examine matter for careful calculation as to where the the economy of first-class traffic that in the true economy lies. It seems to me that suburban areas in particular. ' putting railway dining cars on trains must If we examine statistics on page 33 inevitably reduce the paying-passenger con­ Commissioner's report we find that in country tent of each. There is one coach that cannot areas t·h_e first-.class passengers contribute a take paying passengers, and I do not think substantral portion of the passenger earnings­ the Minister would contend that th(J charges ro.ughly one-quarter of the total. They con­ made in the dining car, having regard to the tnbute 26.09 pence per train mile compRr<> ' cost and the turnover, would show any real with Sld. by their second-class passengers. element of profit. The charges may com­ When you come to the suburban areas you mand a revenue to avoid a material loss, but find a terrific disparity In the figures. There, no-one would imagine that there is a real of the total revenue per train mile of 7iH . profit to be made from a dining car. only ~id. comes from :first-class passengers. In other fields of transport we have seen That IS to say, about one-sixtieth of the total luncheon and meal facilities provided by the Supply. (8 NOVEMBER,) Supply. 1419 use of thermos containers for hot and cold in the Southern Division but perhaps in years foodstuffs. These containers are :fitted into a to com~, when things are happier here, the tiny storage cupboard in aeroplanes and the suggestiOn I now make may be possible. meals therefrom are of reasonable quality and are served en route to quite a number of At the moment we have a degree of short­ passengers. For instance, a Skymaster age of coal production in the south-east manages to supply 44 passengers with a meal corner of the State and we have the spectacle and I feel that if train passengers were able of all the requirements of the Southern to command a meal of equal quality they Division not being sufficiently met from its would be content. It might be that a close natural source, the West Moreton :field. I examination of the economy of the relative think I am right in saying that locomotives in methods might show that the use of thermos the South_ern Division are burning some coal packs for foodstuffs on our long-distance from Calhde and some from Blair Athol. We railway trains would only involve the services all hope that in a relatively short time that of a stewardess to serve the meal, and this position will be cured, and that leads me to method would be infinitely cheaper both in my point. Over the border we have the spec­ capital cost and running expenditure than tacle of a shortage of coal in New South having one complete coach equipped at great Wales of such a kind that the rail service capital cost and a dead weight to the train. particularly to some of our connecting points; I should imagine that the Minister will tell is a little bit stringent. The Minister has us that a dining car is very expensive to con­ already made reference to the facilities made struct. Wbat is more, a special staff is tied available to the New South Wales department up in the dining car, the only contribution it but he added that Wallangarra was the makes to revenue being to provide a meal at bottleneck that stopped him from providing the appropriate hour. Having regard to all train discharges at Wallangarra. It has prices and costs, it seems to me that here is always struck me as absurd that because a directio;n in which, in determining the we have the New South Wales department as future pohcy of the department, the Minister the managing contractor for that joint link should give very serious consideration to the between here and Kyogle, every piece of coal burnt in the locomotives on this line is taken :elativ~ a_dva;ntages and ~isadvantages, both m cap1tahsat10n and runmng costs of having from Newcastle. I admit that at the moment a dining-car on the one hand a'nd on the it would not be easy for the department to other hand a stewardess serving meals from supply West Moreton coal for the purpose but thermos packs. it is to be hoped that the present position will be quickly altered. There are very good Again, with some experience of travelling, reasons why the West Moreton coal should be I want to say that even on the Spirit of used in the locomotives running between South Progress I :find that it is not an easy task to Brisbane and Kyogle. The fact that New make your way from the far end of the train South Wales happens to be the managing in motion to where the dining car is, particu­ agents should not permit the Railway Depart­ larly when you have regard to the queues ment in that State to have the only say in that form about the time each meal is to be the economy of things according to its prefer­ served. It does not add to train comfort to ence or its State's benefit. make your way over the length of the train from carriage to carriage and stand in a Mr. Aikens: There is no comparison in queue waiting your opportunity to be served. the quality of the two coals. Mr. Aikens: On Queensland trains they Mr. HILEY: That may be, but you must use the ticket system. have regard to the relative cost of the two coals. Newcastle coal, when it reaches South Mr. JHLEY: And they use it on the Brisbane, is not cheap coal. It has come 400 Spirit of Progress. On that train there are ton-miles and even taking into account its usually three sittings in the dining car. For high calorific value, I should say that by the the :first sitting a passenger walks straight in. time it reaches South Brisbane it would be half The second and third lots of sitters present as dear again as the West Moreton coal, or may themselves at an hour when it is expected even be double the cost. Allowing for three seats wil~ be ~vailable fo~ them in the dining farthings a ton-mile-and I think the Minister car but mvanably there 1s a certain amount will admit that is a low rate-and allowing of standing in a queue before they actually 300 pence extra in the cost of the Newcastle become seated. coal by the time the Newcastle coal is put M!• Sparkes: Meals are served in the into bunkers at South Brisbane, that makes it carnages of some of the trains i:n New South very dear coal. I urge that a discussion should Wales. be entered into at an early date and if neces­ sary at a high level to make clear that once . f'lr. HILEY: I am advocating that. If Queensland is in a position to supply the coal It mvolves the supply of a hot meal it involves required for the joint link between South also dispensing :with the dining 'car in the Brisbane and Kyogle it should be at liberty c~ntre of the tram and replacing it with cub­ to do so and to that extent relieve some of hies and thermos packs to keep the food either the pressure on coal supplies in New South hot or cold, according to the wishes and Wales. requirements of the people. I should like to We have heard a good deal today, and hear the Minister's observations on that sug­ rightly so, about the overall problem of the gestion. availability of steel. As a matter of fact, The third matter is one that only remotely when I ponder over the figures given by the relates to the administration of the railways Minister this afternoon concerning the length 1420 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply of line that is replaced in the year, some­ of shipping facilities and the service given by where in the neighbourhood of 40 miles, and the department is to be commended. I have the total length of line laid down, it appears had no difficulty in any case in having those to me that Nemesis is just round the corner pigs delivered safely to Queensland. The and before very long the total replacements officers of the department have been able to in a year will not be 40 miles a year but tell me of their progress en route. I compli­ more like 400. If the figure the hon. gentle­ ment the staff for their work in that respect. man gave was sufficient, then the average There is one other matter I wish to mention expectation of the life of a steel rail would to the Minister and that is the responsibility have to be 200 years. We are replacing our of the department to some of its station­ steel rails at about ! per cent. per annum masters. The time is overdue when their of our total milage. I cannot imagine, no residences should receive attention. I have matter how heavy a rail might be selected for in mind in particular the residence at Murgon. some of our sections, that a replacement of It is unquestionably time that building was 40 miles of it per annum can keep our track pulled down and an up-to-date building serviceable. I am afraid that the Minister erected in its place. No doubt the s"me con­ will indicate before very long that we shall ditions obtain in many other centres in need somewhere in the vicinity of 40,000 Southern Queensland. If we want to keep tons of steel rails a year for replacement people interested in. their jo~s and cont~nted purposes alone. That suggests an even greater it is necessary that we proVIde them w1th a replacement than in the past. reasonable standard of comfort. I know the That comment is merely by the way. My story that will be told about the shortage of purpose in addressing the Committee is to building materials, but it is very important point out that the shortage of coal in New that these buildings should be renewed at the South Wales is limiting steel production and earliest possible moment. it is the limitation of steel production that In regard to level cros~ings, recently there is the cause of a headache to the Minister not was a fatal accident at the Goomeri level only in maintaining present lines but in crossing when one man was killed and extending services. Even though it might be another man had his two legs broken. At argued that the consumption is only a few W ooroolin a man was killed not long ago. thousand tons a year we should as quickly as possible find the coal necessary for working I am not very much influenced by the the South Brisbane-Kyogle section. The statement of the Minister that the number Minister should take this matter up with the of accidents that happened on road&, where New South Wales authorities. If he places there is good vision, was greater. I would the subject at its highest possible level I point out that there are not many level am quite sure he will be able to establish crossings compared with the mileage of that Queensland coal should be used on the roads, therefore the comparison is not South Brisbane-Kyogle section of line con­ sound. The time is overdue when we should trolled by New South Wales in order to lead look into this matter very carefully and to a saving of coal for industrial purposes in see whether something cannot be done to New South Wales. improve the conditions at these level cross­ ings. There is one in my town and much Mr. HEADING (Wide Bay) (3.37 p.m.) : time is wasted by people who have to wait Last week when I spoke on the vote for Chief for the train to shunt. Office I was precluded from mentioning one It has been said that railway stations or two matters because my time expired. I were put up and towns built round am taking the opportunity to mention them them. The truth is that in many now. places the Department of Public Lands sur­ I compliment the Commissioner, Mr. veyed the building blocks all round the Maloney, his secretary, Mr. Lingard, and the station and sold them to the public; so traffic superintendent, Mr. Moriarty, for their it waS' not the fault of the people who efforts in running as reasonable a railway built round the station. Instead of selling service as they possibly can. I said the other all the allotments on one side they sold day that I had sympathy with the Minister, allotments on both sides and caused the as he took over the administration of his township to be built round the railway department after the magnificent job it did station. That has happened in every town during the war. I sympathise also with his in the South Burnett. It iS' time we looked officers, who have a similar task to that of at the matter from the angle of the benefit the Minister in giving as efficient service as to the people in the district. possible. I know there are things we complain ·I compliment the Minister on the removal about, and there always will be, but the of the hyacinth from the Goomeri dam, but officers I mention are endeavouring to give it is only right to say that after representa­ us as good a service as they can under exist­ tions were made to the Minister the whole ing conditions. dam was cleaned up much more easily than I criticised and commended when I spoke anybody expected and the menace to that last week and I intend to do both today. I waterhole has been removed. have been consigning stud pigs in crates by The Minister was rather critical of our rail for nearly 20 years. I want to commend suggesting railway links and then suggesting the livestock branch of the department for road transport. When we ask for a rail getting these pigs to their destination in good link we are not very hopeful of getting it. condition. I have had pigs crated from Vic­ One would not hesitate to ask for road toria to Queensland by rail because of lack transport even though a link might be built Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1421

some time· to cater for that area. For unfair that with these qualifications and his instance, N anango-Y arraman link has been experience he should be asked to go to the suggested for many years, but when will it bottom and begin his training from there. be a reality~ T'he building of such a line Today we have a policy for large-scale would remove some of the heavy traffic from immigration and when people from England the main North Coast line. If the Minister or Scotland arrive here with certain quali­ has in mind the construction of some lines, fications it is only reasonable to assume that that is one he might look at. these qualifications apply in Queensland. :Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (3.40 p.m.) : Mr. Power: Men who are cleaners get Apropos of the remarks of the hon. member the opportunity of qualifying later. for Wide Bay about the transport of live­ stock although we have had complaints about Mr. MULLER: It is not a question of the the late arrival of stock at Cannon Hill, on opportunity but of admission, whether to the the other hand I wish to take this opportunity Railway Department or any other business, of complimenting the members of the running if a man has the qualifications. My com­ staff for the way in which they have treated plaint is that he was told he would have to store stock in the past year or two. Never start at the bottom of the ladder. That is have I heard such favourable comment as I equivalent to telling him that he cannot be have heard in the past 12 months about the admitted. One cannot reasonably expect a. delivery of store stock by the department. young man of 21 to accept the ~age of . a As hon. members know, a great deal can junior. This man has taken an mterest m happen to the stock in transit if drivers, railway work all his life. He has taken .up members of the train crew, and of the run­ this work as his career and I do not thmk ning staff, are careless. A careless driver he should be discouraged. or bad coupling-up can knock store stock about very much indeed, but in the last year Mr. Aikens: Do you want to appoint him or two these things have been done very acting general manager straight away' carefully and the railway men concerned are worthy of commendation. Mr MULLER: That is an absurd inter­ jectio"u. All I want is that he be gi;ven a I made some very strong remarks on the position with a status equal to that wh1ch he Chief Office vote and I stand by them. There enjoyed previously. are a number of very good officers in the department who are deserving of credit, and Mr Power: You want to bring a man out we must give credit where credit is due. from "England and put him in as a fireman These men have shown that they are interested over the heads of men who entered the depart­ in their work and the least we, as members ment as lads and worked their way up'i of Parliament, can do is to commend them Mr. MULL,ER: Not at all. When he from the floor of this House. This should be wanted to get into the department he was encouraged. After all, as I have said, the told he would have to start as a cleaner, and railways have a monopoly of transport but that carries only a boy's rate. the work should be carried out with care and efficiency. Mr. Power: No. It carries the adult rate. The hon. member for Mundingburra Perhaps the right procedure would have been was a cleaner. first to discuss with the General Manager the point I now propose to mention, but listen­ Mr. MULLER: That is not to his dis­ ing to the Minister a few minutes ago dealing credit. All I am concerned about is that a with recruitment to the Railway Department man who is desirous of entering the depart­ I was reminded of a matter which was ment is being discouraged by being told he brought to my attention a few days ago. has to go back to the primer class, as it were. The department, like any other business, is finding it difficult to recruit staff. A young Mr. Aikens: No. If he is 21 years of man came from Scotland, where he had served age he will get about £7 a week as a cleaner. his time in the Railway Department. He is 1Ur. MULLER,: From the way he 21 years of age. He informs me that he explained the position to me ~ wa~ led to made application for admission to the Rail­ believe he would not get anythmg hke £7 a way Department and was told that he would week. have to start right on the bottom rung of the ladder; in other words, he would have Mr. Aikens: The Australian boy of the to start as a cleaner. It would be very diffi­ same age would be told the same thing. cult for a young man of 20 or 21 years to accept a position to which a junior's wage ~Ir. MULLER: I did not know that the would apply. hon. member for Mundingburra was closely allied with the Minister for Transport, and I JUr. Power: No, cleaners get an adult am not sure that he knows much about this rate. case. This young man has ended by working in a sawmill, but if the hon. member for JUr. MULLER: This young man served Mundingburra 's information is reliable, if about five years in the railways in Scotland this man would be getting £7 a week as a and he reached the standard of fireman and cleaner, all I can say is that he would be relieving driver. It seems to me to be very foolish to refuse it. He told me he would 1422 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. have to start at the bottom of the ladder and and helpful in his correspondence an_d i;n con­ go through the whole course that he had gone versations over the telephone. It IS Impos­ through already. sible, as I said, to please everyone but I must .Mr. Aikens: You want to give him a pay my tribute to ~he officers I ~ave ~OJ;rte in better chance than the Australian boy of the contact with, particularly the Uommisswner, same age. the secretary, and other high officials. They are men who have devoted their lives to rail­ .Mr • .MULLER: Not at all. I want him way work and by their ability have progressed to be equal with the Australian boy. When to the top places. one of our own kith and kin makes Australia the land of his adoption, he should receive Hon. J. E. DUGGAJil (Toowoomba­ every encouragement, if he is qualified. I do Minister for Transport) (3.59 p.m.): Before not know what the training over in Scotland the vote goes through I wit~h t9 refer brieflY. is, but if it is equal to ours and if he was to the observations made by the hon. member told he could not be admitted because he for Logan. I told him that there would be served his time in Scotland, there is something only one class or railway fare in the metro­ radically wrong. If that is the attitud,e of the politan area when we broug~t about the department it is a very selfish one. I am not electrification of the suburban hnes. We are suggesting that he should be paid less than re-examining the question of the revenue to J:>e our Queensland boys but that he should have gained by the retention of first-class fares m equal opportunities with lads trained here, the metropolitan area and if circumstances if he is competent to do the job. justify it, a change in policy may result. On the subject of dining-cars it is true, .Mr. PLUNKETT (Albert) (3.56 p.m.): I as the hon. member t~ays, that a good meal is have always noticed that when people pay for served on an aircraft but it is always a a 'service they seem to have the right of cold meal and the distance of travel to desti­ criticising it. Many people feel that they are nation, where the traveller can get a hot paying too much for the rail services they meal is perhaps only three or four hours. are getting. I am not criticising the railways On the railways it is necessary to have hot at all. Because of its wide ramifications it meals at some points aong the line and if vv:e must be a very difficult business to manage had a section in each compartment, at~ sug­ and it would be impossible to manage it as gested by the hon. member, from which a everybody would like it to be managed. meal could be supplied, there would sti~l be considerable congestion in the corridors I must express my appreciation of the caused by people going up an~ do_wn the services rendered by railway officials. I train. If we had such a section m each remember the present Commissioner, Mr. carriage and we had eight or nine coaches on Maloney, when he joined the service as a boy. the train the space occupied by each pro­ He was at Beaudesert for some time and demonstrated as a lad that he had qualifica­ vision section might easily aggregate the tions that very few people possess. He had space taken up by a dining-car. There would an extraordinary memory, so that the station­ be greater convenience and comfort in eating master tested the young fellow out and found in a dining-car and that would be much that his mental calculations were extra­ preferable to the eating of a meal from a ordinary. I am pleased to see that gentleman tray on your lap. If we ar~ to induce. people as Commissioner for Railways today; I am to come back to the railway serVIce we sure he earned his promotion. I do not agree must provide them with proper eating facili­ with the hon. member for Aubigny that ties. In countries abroad, in the. United because a man has gone through the service States in particular, where there is high com­ and is equipped for a position he should not petition between the railways and both air­ get it because he is of a certain age. A man craft and road vehicles, the railways find who has earned promotion to Commissioner­ it desirable to provide a separate dining-car, ship should get it, even if he holds the which is air-conditioned, and the consen~s. of position for only a year or two. those in the position to express an ol?u;wn is that train passengers favour the dmmg­ .Mr. Sparkes: I said that ability should car If we are able to air-condition the count. coa.ches we shall have four or five diesel units with a head-on system and wi.th a separa~e car .Mr. PLUNKETT: If a man is worthy of carrying the electrical eqmpment, wrth a appointment to a position he should not be voltage that will. enable us to. use standard deprived of that appointment because of his equipment. All m all, we beheve that the age. I am pleased that Mr. Maloney has best idea at the moment is to adhere to the achieved the exalted position of Commissioner separate dining-car on mail trains. It is true for Railways and I am also pleased that he is that the price charged is not su~cient to carrying out his work in such an excellent recoup the department for the services pro· way. During my life in Parliament I have vided and the loss must be regarded as a cost introduced many deputations to Commissioners of supplying a service to p_assengers to induce for Railways and I can say that not on one them to travel on the tram. occasion has the Commissioner done anything but extend courtesy and help to the people The hon. member for Logan also referred concerned who were very often under a mis­ •o the congestion at the border because of the n;nderstanding as to the railway point of inability of New South Wales to pr?vide the V18\V$ requisite number of wagons. That IS. a very real problem indeed. On the subwct of J\fr. Lingard, the secretary, is another offering our coal to New South Wales I should gentleman who has always been courteous like to point out that the New South Wales Supply. [8 NoVEMBER,] Supply. 1423

authorities have refused to burn Queensland to the last appointed cleaner. If that was not coal. For many years they refused to accept so, someone would probably have to be any Queenland coal, except coal from Aber­ demoted. When we ask him to do that, dare colliery at Ipswich and coal is not now we do not ask him to accept any great handi­ being won from that mine. In any case, if the cap, because the wage for a cleaner is coal was available, there would still be insuffi­ £7 7s. 9d. a week, which is £1 over the basic cient for our own requirements and if we wage-there is a tangible margin for skill. were to offer coal to New South Wales we The hon. member will agree that if we had an should be compelled to deplete the reserves Australian 22 years of age who had passed we had built up for our own department. We his educational examination to join the are just emerging from the aftermath of a department and someone came out from very costly industrial strike on the coalfields, England tomorrow with an equal educational which depleted the reserves that we had built standard and was placed in a position senior up. The Railway Department had about seven to him he would have some cause for criti­ weeks of coal in reserve. That is far greater cism. I will put it this way; if he was than any other State instrumentality had and manager of a butter factory and a manager reserves were depleted because we made coal of a butter factory came out from England available to some industries to enable them and thought he had qualifications equal or to retain their staffs. We shall require the superior to those of the hon. member . and he maximum amount of production between now superseded him in his present ;position, would and Christmas to get a sufficient reserve to he not have cause for complamU carry us over the Christmas-New Year P.eriod, when the coal-mines will be closed down for On the other hand we have engaged the miners' annual holidays. If at a later personnel for the department at a rate date, when coal production at Blair Athol much higher than the minimum classi· and Callide develops and our transport facili­ :fieation. We have a designing engineer ties are such that we can accumulate stocks at Ipswich who came out here and there of coal that will give us more than a fair was no-one in the department with the reserve, we can approach the New South requisite experience to design steel rolling­ Wales department along the lines ~JUggested stock and he was employed on a salary by the hon. member. I recall that on one between £600 and £700. Even with his occasion we discussed the question of offering appointment some resentment was expressed all coal to the New South Wales authorities in the drafting section, where the officers so that a trainload of Boy Scouts could felt the Commissioner was not justified in proceed to a conference being held in issuing the necessary certificate. The Depart­ Adelaide. The New South Wales Commis­ ment of Public Works has brought architects sioner for Railways declined the offer but out, and we have brought dentists out from ultimately provided the train using their own England and engaged them on the award rate. coal. We will continue to do that in skilled trades. The only other observation I should like to A boilermaker arrived in Toowoomba from make is in reply to the hon. member for England and we sent him to Ipswich. He had Fassifern. His facts are rather confused. not the necessary experience of locomotives. He spoke of recruitment of labour from but he was no doubt a very competent malll. England. It seems to me that it would be and he has been sent to Ipswich for three monstrous to recruit a :fireman from England m?nths on pr?bation; and if at the expir­ and on his arrival appoint him as a fireman atiOn of that t1me he can pass the tests he will over the heads of men already in the depart­ be paid boilermaker's rates of £8 or £9 a ment who were qualified to :fill the position. week. There is no prohibition on the The department provides that with the emplo;:-ment of people coming here, if they exception of the four general managers, the are sk11led tradesmen and have evidence that right of appeal reposes in every one of its they are members of the relevant union in employees. We have an appeal board estab­ England. They are absorbed here and take lished for that purpose and every unsuccess­ their places alongside the Australian trades­ ful applicant for a position has the right of man. There is no discrimination in any way· appeal. I do not know of any case in the we are glad to have them coming here. It i~ department where some employee has not necessary however to start unskilled labour exercised that right if he thought he had at the bottom of the grade. stronger claims than the appointee. The Commissioner is bound to accept the decision The hon. member for Mundingburra of the board. The only authority given to referred to the length of our Sunshine train. the Commissio;ner to make appointments from I obtained from the office particulars of the outside the service is where he thinks that no­ Blue Train, which runs from Capetown to one within the service has the necessary quali­ Pretoria, a distance of 999 miles, and is fications for the position. In the circum­ thought to be one of the most famout~ of stances :referred to by the hon. member a such coach trains in the world. Omitting cleaner would resent being passed over if he stops, it averages 40 miles an hour and cuts possessed the qualifications for the position. off 10 hours 12 minutes compared with the Before a cleaner can act as a fireman he ordinary main-line service. According eo the must pass the examination prescribed for a particulars, that train is 875 feet long. A :fireman. What we insist on if a person comes pass·enger coach is 65 feet long and it must from abroad and is desirous of taking have obviously 12 coaches in that train. So employment with the department in the loco­ the hon. member for Mundingburra was Lo.t motive section is that his seniority dates next correct in his assertion that we needed t(:) l424 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. have half a dozen coaches in that train. That years that lie ahead we may have such a is not borne out by the experience of the train. One minute the hon. member criticises operators of the Blue T'rain in South Africa. the administration for not doing all the things he wants by way of rehabilitation and Mr. Hiley: It is a very high elevation. endeavours to make out that he is a champion Mr. DUGGAN: Yes. The track provides of the men. If there is any force in his for a 20-ton axle load. It does not give the argument, it is a reflection on the men. The tractive effort of the locomotive. It may be administrative officers have arranged for the as high as 60,000 or 70,000; it is higher than steel to be ordered and I have arranged for the C 38, the most powerful engine in New the money to be provided, and it now rests South Wales, hauling the Kyogle Express to with the men who build the trains. If there Sydney, which has a 58,000-lb. tractive effmt. is any reflection on the delay in building the I remember reading some time ago that they trains, it is a reflection on the men. I am did have locomotives in South Africa with prepared to say that we are entitled to believe a tractive effort as high as 70,000 lb. The that a start will be made in May next year. Beyer-Garratts we are purchasing have 50 per The design is almost completed in Ipswich. cent. greater tractive effort than the most The designing staff have '' Beyer'' locomotives powerful of our existing engines and with to haul that train. If existing schedules are that reserve power they will not have the adhered to, twelve of these will arrive in trouble that we should have with our existing July next year, another eight in October of engines in hauling present mail train loads. the same year, and the remaining ten in The reserve power will be sufficient to obtain January, 1951. We have very definite the higher average speed. delivery dates, and I am entitled to express An Opposition Member: They must have my resentment against the hon. member for heaVY rails in South Africa. Mundingburra for casting aspersions and reflections on the staff at Ipswich who are Mr. DUGGAN: Yes. It is a tremendously engaged on the work of building this train. big organisation. The South African railway I hope it will bring back a great deal of also has harbour controls and road transport patronage to the railway and will create a and employs 178,000 people, has a capital of better feeling amongst the travelling public about £230,000,000, and a revenue of about towards the Railway Department. £45,000,000 a year. Their "crack" train, under the most favourable conditions-in Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (4.18 p.m.): the sense that they have an extremely good The Minister, in reply to my question regard­ track and very powerful locomotives linking ing the appointment of qualified men to the two very important cities, Johannesburg, with railway department, gave by way of com­ a population of approximately 750,000, and parison what could happen in a butter Capetown with approximately 500,000-is factory. But that is my point. A butter much longer than our Sunshine train. In factory would not for a moment consider en­ composing those trains they put on what they believe to be an economic unit. gaging a qualified tester or grader to work on the cream :floor and ask him to accept the We must recognise that in Queensland we lowest salary in the factory. The Minister have to compromise to a certain degree. went so far as to talk of his being employed People in the isolated outposts of the State as a managing director. I should not suggest like to have fresh bread and fresh meat, and he be employed as a butter-maker. But I do mail trains are used for the purpose of suggest that a man who was employed as a carrying not only passengers but also highly railway fireman in England or Scotland should perishable commodities such as meat. More­ not be denied that status in Australfa. This young man was a fireman. If he was a over, according to this report, in the 1,000 fireman in Scotland and did his work effi­ miles in South Africa the gradients are not ciently I take it he would have the qualifica­ more than 1 in 55. tions and credentials. Therefore, why demote Mr. IHley: That is the ruling grade. him to cleaner or some position like thaU That is equivalent to excluding him from the Mr. DUGGAN: That is the steepest railway service altogether. This young man grade. The point I make is that we must felt he was not wanted by the Queensland effect a certain compromise. We have not Railway Department. the population that would justify the M:r. Power: He could not hold his posi­ "Courier-Mail's" assertion. If we had a tion on an appeal. tremendous population, I have no doubt there would be business executives who would want ltlr. MULLER: The point the Minister to take advantage of such a service and it makes would be applicable, perhaps, if the would pay us to provide it, but we have not man had not been a fireman, but he had been the business executives here with that inclina­ a fireman. tion and consequently we have to provide a Mr. Power: He would be the junior man. service that meets the all-round requirements There are none so dense as those who will of the majority of the people. not understand. Commenting" on the air-conditioned train Mr. MULLER: He was a fireman in the that is being built, the hon. member for land of his origin. He comes to Australia Mundingburra said that perhaps in the many but has to go down the ladder and start to Supply. (8 NoVEMBER.] Supply. 1425 ascend again. If he is ambitious and is examination to qualify for the position of qualified to take the position, he is not likely fireman. If he wishes to go on to driving to do that. he must qualify as a driver. All those young men at present employed in the department A:ikens: The railway unions stopped would be senior in service to the person whom racket long ago. the hon. member for Fassifern wants to put into the job. Therefore, if you brought some­ Probably the hon. mem­ body from outside, despite the fact that he ber one of those who would do that might have been a fireman in another part of but I want to be fair to the people. who come the world, and appointed that man a fireman here and are qualified and willing to do cer­ in Queensland, the right of appeal would lie, tain work. against the appointment by .any of the Mr. FarreU: What about the fireman who cleaners already employed in the department. left our railway service and reapplied~ Where That is the position as pointed out by the would he go'F Minister. Mr. ltiULLER: That is another matter, Mr. HHey: On the same argument, if you because he has resigned and probably by so brought a carpenter out he would go down doing has set himself aside. This man came to below the junior apprentice. Australia and I feel he is entitled to a posi· Mr. POWER: I will deal with that silly tion equal to the one he was qualified to interjection by the hon. member for Logan. occupy previously. The award rate of pay for carpenters would The Secretary for Public Works and Hous· have to be observed because the award pro· ing is making a great noise about this. If vides that after a man has served so many we are to set young men back because they da years as an apprentice he qualifies as a trades· not happen to be born in Australia we are man and must be paid M such. The hon. denying them the right to carry on the trade member for Logan is a pretty shrewd to which they have given the best years of accountant and business man and knows the their lives. position; he is simply trying to help his colleague, the hon. member for Fassifern. If I was pleased to hear the Minister say that the person was appointed to the position of the wages of a cleaner are not as low as I fireman every cleaner in Queensland, whether thought they were. Seven pounds a week is in the N'orthern, Central or Southern Division certainly much better than what I thought a of the department, would have the right of cleaner received, but the fact is that this man appeal against that appointment. is being demoted simply because he came to Australia. If we do that with all our quali­ Mr. Pie: The Minister has told us that. fied immigrants we shall make labourers of them for the rest of their lives. I ask the Secre· Mr. POWER: But the hon. member for tary for Public Works and Housing whether he Fassifern cannot understand it. The hon. would be prepared to accept demotion in simi· member for Windsor has just come into the lar circumstances. This man would not be Chamber after having attended to his private going over the head of anyone else. He is business. He is only a part-time member. simply being transferred to Australia and Whilst the Committee has been debating these we should do all we can to retain these Estimates the hon. member has been running qualified people. I agree that he should not round Melbourne enjoying himself at the expect to be given a position two or three Melbourne Cup meeting. grades higher, but if a qualified tester came to our factory for employment he would be Mr. Pie: You wait till you see the indus­ engaged as a tester. We should give him the try I am bringing up. job he was capable of doing, but the policy of this Government seems to be to put these Mr. POWER: If there is profit, the hon. people into inferior grades. By giving pre­ member will be in it. I was impressing ference to our own people we are victimising upon the hon. member for Fassifern the many of those who are coming to this country futility of the department's employing a man and preventing them from holding their own. as fireman when he would have no chance of holding that position. Hon. W. POWER (Baroona-Secretary for Public Works, Housing, and Local Gov· Mr. Muller: How do you know? ernment) (4.24 p.m.): I am convinced that the hon. member for Fassifern has had his Mr. POWER: Common sense leads me leg pulled in this matter. He came into this to believe it. Once the Commissioner makes Chamber with a very bad brief. He stated an appointment he must justify it. If he that a young man who came out from Scot­ made such an appointment the Commissioner land was being victimised by the Railway would have to brief counsel and justify his Department. The Minister for Transport has action. On the other hand, what incentive explained clearly that nobody was victimised would there be for young men in this country by the Railway Department. to join the Railway Department if you could The position is that the first avenue of bring outsiders along and put them into employment in the Railway Department is in positions over them~ I took particular notice the cleaning branch. An applicant has to of what the hon. member for Fassifern said, pass an examination before being accepted that he would be appointed a cleaner at a as a cleaner. After having served as a cleaner junior rate of pay. That statement shows he for the required period, he must pass an has no knowledge of the subject. It would be 1426 Supply. (ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

wrong to bring fellows from outside and put over men who have served for years in the them over men who have given years of ser­ railway service as cleaners and have qualified vice to the department. for fireman and are now awaiting appoint­ ment as firemen. M.r. l''ie: The next Premier. Mr. HHey: The Minister says that there Mr. POWER: The political larrikin from is a shortage of firemen. Windsor. Mr. AIKENS: There is, but only because Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (4.29 there is a shortage in the intake of cleaners. p.m.): I want to clear up a point raised by You must maintain a certain number of the hon. member for Fassifern, because as ~n cleaners and the shortage of firemen arises old railway man and unionist I think I .am m from the fact that there is a shortage in the a position to do so. For many years ~n the intake of cleaners. The hon. member wants railway service in days gone by, when It was to bring a stranger from overseas and put controlled by men of the same political colour him in the railway service over senior men and texture of hon. members opposite, a who have already qualified as firemen. This friend of the Minister could come along to is a principle against which the Railway him and say, "What about a job in th~ Ra~; Unions fought for years and finally smashed. day Department as a fireman or a .dnv~r. In the case of a tradesman it is different. If That person might not have any quahficat10ns a tradesman enters the Railway Department at all because men have come off bread-carts he is employed and paid as a tradesman. in days gone by and been app?inted as ~re­ If a member of the railway service men· men have come from statwnary engmes was transferred from one branch of and been appointed as driv~rs. O:-er the _y~ars the service to another, he would have railway unions fought agamst this permcious to start at the bottom of the grade in principle and today, before a man can become the branch he had entered, but the hon. mem· a fireman in the Railway Department, . he ber for Fassifern wants to give a man must have served as a cleaner. Havmg seniority and place him over the heads of served as a cleaner and having. passed. the others in the service simply because he comes examination for a fireman, he IS classified from overseas. If there was a reversion to as a fireman in order of seniority. So also the system that operated many years ago, a when he becomes a fireman he passes th_e system advocated by him today there would examination as a driver and becomes classi­ be a hold-up in the railway service and I fied as a driver in order of seniority. believe that if that was attempted every Let me put the position of the hon. member driver and fireman would immediately walk off the job. They would be justified in doing for Mackay and myself against the argume~t advanced today by the hon. member for Fassi­ that if the old system was reverted to, so as fern. The hon. member for Mackay and I to bring in a stranger from overseas. were nearly nine years in the Railway Depart­ Let me look at the other side of the picture. ment as cleaners before we were classified as firemen-we were nearly 26 years . of When the hon. member for Mackay and I age before we were classified as fire­ came into this Parliament we were senior men despite the fact that we had qualified firemen at the top of the list and as firemen by passing our examinations over qualified and used continuously as drivers, eight years before. Because a man who has driving all sorts of engines and trains been a railway fireman comes from England, because we were qualified to drive the Scotland, Ireland, Timbuctoo or some other biggest locomotives and the biggest place, the hon. m~~ber for Fassifern wax:ts trains in the department. If we were him to be in a positiOn to say to the Commis­ to go out of Parliament and we wanted to sioner for Railways in Queensland, ''I am a qualified fireman, I was employed as a fireman drive those little coffee pots that run round in some other country, therefore now I want the sugar mills hauling sugar-cane we should you to appoint me as a classified fireman in not be allowed to do it because our railway the Queensland railways senior to men like qualifications as a driver do not extend to Graham, Aikens, and others who have been places outside the Railway Department. We in the railway service as qualified firemen for should have to pass a further examination to years, waiting for appointments as firemen.'' enable us to drive these little coffee pots that Is that the sort of thing he wants~ He wants run round the sugar mills. to bring in a visitor from some other country over the heads of senior cleaners in the (Time expired). Queensland railway service who have passed their qualifying examination as firemen. Vote (Southern Division) agreed to. Mr. Hiley: Are there cleaners in the Railway Department today awaiting appoint­ CENTRAL DIV,ISION AND MAC'KAY RAILWAY. ment as firemen~ Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­ Mr. AIKENS: Hundreds of them. They Minister for Transport) ( 4.35 p.m.) : I move- have passed their qualifying examination for "That £3,013,800 be granted for 'Cen- firemen and are simply waiting for advance­ tral Division and Mackay Railway'." ment in the service. The hon. member for Fassifern wants to be able to appoint a This amount is £621,071 greater than the stranger from overseas t? .a po~ition of fire­ appropriation for 1948-49 and £230,117 in man in the department, givmg him preference excess of the actual expenditure for that year. Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1427

A summary of the increases and decreases as Mr. Duggan: Don't be precipitate; you compared with 1948-49-I will mention only don't know what I have done with this the main items-is as follows- matter. Increases. £ Award and automatic . Mr. EVANS: The Minister was guided in increases, including part his reply more ?Y eloquence than by logic. paid in 1948-49 .. 121,610 I ha:ve the particulars of the discrimination Extra staff 44,672 and m order to protect my district and North Full provision for appoint- Queens~a~d in :!?articular I will give them. ments, &c., 1948-49 .. 25,066 The Mmister said he agreed with me about Fuel, increased price 25,150 the value of decentralisation. I was very Stores, increased price .. 15,944 happy_ to ~ear him say that but it is no Permanent way material. . 30,180 use h1s tellmg me that unless he backs his Decrea_iles. statement with action. Overtime . . . . 39,587 Extended leave and retiring We know . that whe~ the Premier was up allowance . . . . 2,000 North he said everythmg in the garden was New boilers .. 1,290 lovely an~ there was no dissatisfaction. I Miscellaneous Services 11,598 ~ay that If you are losing industries-and Important ones-everything in the garden is . Mr. ~VANS (Mirani) ( 4.36 p.m.) : During not lovely, and it is the duty of the Govern­ d1scuss1on on the Chief Office Estimates the ment and the Minister in charge of the Min~ster said that the hon. member for department concerned to see that justice is Aub1gny had been demoted. I will give a meted out, not only to the people in Brisbane, brief recital of the events that occurred. Mr. Maryborough and Bundaberg, but to those of Maher1 _the th~n Deputy Leader of the Mackay, and everywhere else in Queensland. OppOiSihon, fl'esigned as ! ·chairman of the The Minister did mention in his explanation transport committee o~ the party and the that there was some port agreement and hon. member fo: Aub1gny, being a utility man and possessmg a knowledge of primary today when answering a question by th~ hon. industries and transport, was elected chair­ member for Bowen he said that there was man. of the lands committee by the party. some secret agreement and it was very He 1s a _knowledgeable gentleman. He has lengthy-- proved himself, as he has handled his own Mr. Duggan: Not secret. aff::irs very well. I appreciate very much the assistance he has given as a member of Mr. EVANS: It was too much work to the transport committee. I do not know get it out. If there is an agreement from the much about railways myself. port of Brisbane to the port of Mackay for I made some criticism on the Chief Office durabestos boards, and there is, should not vote. It was only moderate criticism because that agreement on freight rates applying to I believe that the Minister has done a very boards railed from Brisbane to Mackay also us~~u~ job. Today I intend to offer further apply to the raw material railed from Bris­ cnticism on the same lines. The Minister bane to Mackay and the :finished product endeavoured to reply to some of my criti· from Mackay to Brisbane~ Is that not com· cisms but instead of facts he gave us elo­ quence. I give the Minister 100 marks for his m on sense~ Going from this port to the other eloquence but I wish to tell him that port and coming from the other port in eloquence cuts no ice with this side of the Mackay to Brisbane, should not the same Chamber. We want facts, logic, and common freight rate apply~ Should not that freight sense. apply to the :tum in Mackay, the same as it Mr. Duggan: I hope I gave you some. applies to the :firm in Brisbane~ If it does not, how will you have industries in North M!· EVANS: The Minister was very Queensland~ Row will you have decentralisa­ evas1ve. ~ put ~y ~ase to him very nicely tion~ but the Mm1ster m his reply employed a :flow of words, thinking that I should probably The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. accept them as a reply and that there would Rilton) : Order! The hon. member has been be no more about it. The school I was reared speaking for a little over five minutes and in was a very hard school. I do not accept so far he has not touched on the vote before eloquence; I have to be convinced. The the Committee. I have no desire to stifle subject I referred to, and to which I refer discussion, but the vote concerns the adminis­ now, is discrimination in freights. The tration of the Central Division and Mackay Minister may be like the Attorney­ Railway. As the Chairman of Committees General. Wh9n I discussed the subject of losses on State enterprises that hon. pointed out, matters of administration are to gentleman said they were not losses be discussed on the vote for Chief Office, and they were deficits. The Minister for Trans: then the debate on the various other votes must port may have another word for discrimina­ be confined to those votes. I should like tion. Today I am going to give the Minister the hon. member to note that we are dealing the facts. I did not want to bore him the with the vote for the Central Division and other day. I expected the hon. gentleman to Mackay Railway. say in reply, ''I will investigate the matter and I will let you know whether there was Mr. EVANS: I am discussing the Central discrimination.'' Division and Mackay Railway. 1428 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! £ s. d. Apparently I have not made myself plain. New South Wales 1 9 1 I endeavoured patiently to point out the Loading charge 1 4 position to the hon. member. I gave him Transhipping charge 3 () five minutes and during that time he made Counting and checking 1 3 reference to the inequality of port rates to Queensland 3 8 1 Brisbane and port rates to Mackay, but apart from that he has not referred to the Central 5 2 9 or Mackay Railway. The hon. member "Cement Wall Board- started to talk about decentralisation. I ask ''First class rates will apply for this him to discuss the Central Division and Mac­ commodity, the rates to the respective kay Railway. towns being as shown below- Mr. EVANS: If you are going to restrict £ s. d. me, which you appear to be going to do, I Mackay-Roma Street . . . . 16 18 8'' will read the letters that concern Mackay. Surely they are in order' There was telephonic communications with the Secretary of the Railway Depart­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: If they ment and a letter was written- have reference to the vote. '' As per our telephonic conversation of' Mr. EVANS: They certainly have. Surely even date we ask you to reconsider your I have the right to read them out. I will quotation of £16 18s. 8d. per ton for read the letters and I will deal with them cement wall board. afterward. The first letter is from the Corn· "The board which we manufacture is missioner to the Batrosa Marble Company at made similar to fibrous plaster sheets but Mackay dated 13 August. instead of laying our work out on cement The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! tables to set we lay ours on glass sheets That is a matter for the administration of which imparts to the sheets a sheen. The Chief Office. I rule that the hon. member sheen on the sheets is there when the cannot discuss it on this vote. I am carry­ sheets are removed off the glass mould. ing out the instructions of the Chairman of ''The sheets are not made of Terrazzo Committees, who, when the Estimates were materials. first discussed, intimated the course that would be followed. If hon. members are "We think it fair to both ourselves and· honest and sincere, they will agree that that the Railway Department that a B class is so. rate or less should apply to our sheets as the fibrous plaster sheets are B class Mr. EVANS: What I wish to point out is rates." that we are discussing administration, and this has a reference to Mackay and I will A letter was received from the Secretary deal with Mackay. This letter was written to the Commission0r for Railways, dated in connection with freight rates from Mackay, 20 August, 1948- and it reads- " With reference to your letter of 17 August, 1948, in connection with the rate '' With reference to your application to the Secret·ary for Railways, Brisbane, quoted for the conveyance of liquid cement for special rates on magnesium chloride sheets to various centres from Mackay­ and marble dust from Darling Harbour to I am desired to inform you that after Mackay and for cement wall board from further consideration of the matter it haS' Mackay to Brisbane and other principal been decided to quote B class rates and con· stations in Queensland, I am now in ditions for the conveyance of these sheets. receipt of advice from the Secretary ''This rate Mackay to Roma Street is quoting the following rates for conveyance £8 2s. 4d. per ton in ton lots or more.'' of the products mentioned above:- That is the actual position with the finished Magnesium Chloride. 8 ton lots product, £8 2s. 4d. a. ton Mackay to Bris­ Darling Harbour to Mackay- bane, but the rate from Brisbane to Mackay Per ton. is £3 19s. 8d. plus Is. a ton. I would point £ s. d. out-and I know the Minister will agree with me--that the trucks that bring the durabes­ New South Wales 2 17 9 tos board to North Queensland often return Loading charge 1 4 empty. I live on the railway line and I Transhipping charge 3 0 have seen that happen. Why is the freight Counting and checking 1 3 on the North Queensland industrv double Queensland 8 9 1 what it is on Brisbane industry~ The Minis­ ter states that there is no diE~crimination. Total 11 12 5 Then what is it~ Is it because this industry is in North Queensland W Is it because it is Marble Dust.- an industry in Mackay that the double rate is imposed? '' The cheapest rate in New South Wales applies when the wagon is loaded to full The chairman of this company who has capacity lt>ss 2~ per cent. S wagon 14 since passed away took up the matter with the tons 12 cwt. 2 quarters. chamber of commerce. The chamber dealt witb Supply. [8 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 14291 the discrimination and the matter was pub­ Mr. EVANS: I am suggesting that the lished in the Mackay "Mercury." After this Minister has made provision in his Estimates publication in the press, the Batrosa Coy. for certain work that he expects to do. Am received this letter- I not in order in suggesting that he should "The Manager, go further and plan for years ahead~ Batrosa Marble Coy. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Mackay. The hon. member can discuss the Central "I wish to advise that the special rate Division and Mackay Railway only. I rule· for magnesium chloride and marble dust·, that the hon. member cannot diS'cuss general previously in operation account of your transport policy on this vote. If he is not firm has been cancelled as from 1 June, prepared to confine his remarks to the vote­ 1949.'' before the Committee he will have to resume­ No reason was given for this action. Tha.t his seat. industry has now clo~ed down in ~ack~y and is coming to Bnsbane. . Ope.ratm.g m Mr. EVA.NS: You are just adopting the Mackay it cannot compete With Its nvals. attitude you did on previous occasions. and pay double the freight both ways to what its rival pays. These are letters from the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Railway Department. I ask the hon. member to withdraw that. I endeavour to adopt the correct attitude while Mr. Aikens: Industry driven out of the I am in the Chair. North. Mr. Macdonald: He did not say it was Mr. EVA.NS: These are not my letters; the wrong one. they are letters from the department. Mr. Aikens: An industry driven out of The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! the North. The implication is very clear to anyone with any intelligence. Mr. EVANS: Yes; and the Minister said there was no discrimination! Let us take the Mr. EVANS: If I can e:iplain, I am freights on raw material. The charge is referring to the attitude you adopted when 12s. 8d. a ton for 100 miles from New South I S'tarted to speak. You gave way and Wales whereas in Queensland it is £1 Os. 10d. allowed me to speak because I was in order. If th~t is not discrimination I should be happy to have the Minister give me another The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! word for it. I do not want to have continual argument The Minister has explained that these rail­ with the hon. member. I did allow him to way works are being carried out with loan speak for five minutes before he made any moneys. We must realise that there is no reference whatsoever to the Central Division other way of doing it in a country like and Mackay Railway. If that is an intolerant Queensland. We know we have uniform attitude, I think otherwise. I do not wish taxation and with our tremendous milage of to pursue the argument any further. I rule railways it would be unfair to expect them that the hon. member must discus·s the· to make very big profits, and I give the Central Division and Mackay Railway and I Minister every credit for vision and ability. do not want continual argument with the Chair on the matter. While I am in the chair Any young country like this, hav~ng a young Minister in charge of transport, IS fortunate I will carry out the duties of the Chair as I and I' suggest that he give consideration to think they should be carried out. the provision of further transport facilities. Mr. EVANS: I must bow to your ruling, We must have railways if we are to develop Mr. Hilton, and I will resume my seat rather and we must be bold in our policy and make than continue. provision for future development. In the little concern in which I am interested-it Mr. LOW (Cooroora) (4.55 p.m.): During is worth only about £1,000,000-we have had the last Parliamentary recess, with a party of to plan ahead, not for maintenance but for Parliamentarians I made a trip North and equipment and efficiency, in order to give our was surprised to find that the line between shareholders a fair return. I urge the Bundaberg and Rockhampton was of the light Minister to recommend to his Government type. The track bed was not of the usual that they plan what they are going to do for standard. I was concerned about this section, further development. considering the traffic that was passing over The T'E)IPORA.RiY CHAIRlUAN (Mr. it. During the war period we experienced Hilton): Order! much trouble with Garratt engines, a null'lber of which were derailed on this section. If JUr. EVANS: You seem very anxious to attention has not already been stop me, Mr. Hilton. I was leading up to strengthening rails and the track railways. Bundaberg and Rockhampton, I think the Minister should attend to the matter. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order' 'fhat is a very unfair reflection on the Chair. We also observed that this section was the I have endeavoured to co-operate as far as worst so far as fences were concerned. On possible with the hon. member, but he should that trip we could get a clear view of the appreciate the fact that he cannot suggest whole condition of the railways in the Central Government policy in connection with trans­ Division. With the development of Blair port on this vote after there has been full Athol and the sorghum farm at Capella the discussion on the Chief Office vote. congestion at Emerald is becoming acute and 1430 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. the position has developed to such an extent help industry. Five such concessions were that the telegraph line between that town granted. The :first was from Capella to and Rockhampton is rather out of date and Bajool and the rate £1 13s. a ton, against could be improved upon. I suggest that the ordinary rate of £2 5s. 4d. a ton. The the Minister consider the installation of a second concession was from Capella to Moura control system from Rockhampton to Emerald and the rate is £1 17s. lOd., a comparable for the dispatch of trains, as is done on the reduction in the ordinary rate. Then there North Coast line. If the district super­ is the third concession from Capella to Grace­ intendent at Emerald was able to have those mere, and the rate is £1 lls. a ton. Appar­ facilities, trains could be speeded up and ently this concession is given to the Queens­ delays would not be so long and general land-British Food Corporation and represents efficiency would improve. Once a train leaves ''M'' class rates as against ''A'' class rates. Emerald at present, nothing is heard of it There is also the concession on the sorghum until it arrives at Rockhampton. With the grain reconsigned from Bajool to Gladstone traffic coming forward I am sure a control jetty at 9s. 4d. a ton and sorghum grain system would be of great advantage. reconsigned from Bajool to Port Alma wharf Sooner or later' the department will have to at 5s. 6d. a ton. face up to the responsibility of doing away It is all right to give concessions to help with the out-of-date system that causes industry if they are given to everybody but trains to pass through the main street of on looking down the list I cannot see that Rockhampton. It is a major problem and any private sorghum-grower in the Capella sooner or later the traffic will have to be district got a concession on the cartage of diverted to another route so that the trouble sorghum grain. If these concessions are ,can be overcome. It is acute with the grow­ granted to help industry they should be ing motor-car and pedestrian traffic. When applied to the industry as a whole, but building the new station of Rockhampton I apparently the only grower to get this sub­ hope the Minister will give thought to that stantial concession from the department was problem. It will depend on the plans for the Quensland-British Food Corporation. the station and its situation but care should be taken not to spend a considerable "sum After all, why should not other sorghum­ of money on an expensive station and then growers in other parts of the Central Division find the department has to overcome the and the State get this concession to help problem of diverting the rail traffic through their industry~ It is very unfair discrimina­ the town. tion between customers of the Railway Depart­ ment. You quite appreciate the fact, Mr. It was suggested by the hon. member for Hilton, coming as you do from the southern Kennedy that the time for the running of part of the State, that sorghum-growers down the Townsville Mail could be cut. I here provide a great deal of traffic for the agree with that statement as I noticed that 'Railway D:epartment in the transport of when the train got north of Bundaberg their grain to the port of shipment or the it lost its importance, it ambled along and point of storage. Why have no concessions nobody took much notice of it. I am satis­ been granted to them to help their industry~ fied that if the load was reduced much run­ Yet we find that this very substantial freight ning time could be saved. At some points concession has been given by the depart­ it is necessary to attach two engines to the ment to the Queensland-British Food Cor­ train. At every depot where water is taken poration on the carriage of its grain to Bajool much time is lost for locomotive purposes and and thence to the port of shipment, or on the time is lost also in pulling up and starting, carriage of its grain to either Moura, Grace­ in unloading parcels and that sort of thing. mere, or other pig farms that are being If the load was reduced and the train reduced established by it. to a single-engine load, running time between Brisbane and the North could be The concession is allegedly to help the saved. Time could be saved also by having a industry. Is the Queensland-British Food buffet car throughout. It is necessary that Corporation an industry in this State~ That people should have refreshments but it is also is what I want to know. When we take these important that we should improve the running matters into account it would appear to be a case of unfair discrimination. We had cases schedule. I hope the Minister will give con­ quoted of discrimination in railway freights, sideration to my suggestions. but here we have a discrimination against the Mr. NIClCLIN (Murrumba-L,eader of industry of private individuals and in favour the Opposition) (5.2 p.m.): First of all I of an industry controlled by Government want to refer to the special rates granted by individuals. Surely the advantages that this the department for the conveyance of goods Government instrumentality has over the pri­ in order that the railways shall meet road vate grower at the present time-- .:Jompetition and help industry. It is very desirable that that should be done, but on The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. examining these concessions I find that they Hilt on) : Order! I think the hon. gentleman are not given to everybody and I should like is getting away from the subject. the Minister to tell me why they are given Mr. NICKLIN: I am not. I am giving to one and not to another. For example, you an example and reasons. concession rates were granted on 31 March last for the conveyance of sorghum grain The TElUPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! from Capella to various points in the Central I would point out that the policy of the District, on the grounds that they were to department and railway administration, Supply [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. l43ll including the fixation of ~pecial rates, con;es The TE~:IPORARY CHAIRMAN (l\k under the heading of Ch1ef Office. I qmte Hilton): Order! I ask the hon. member agree that reference to special rates might to discuss the vote before the Committee. be in order on the vote for the Central Division and I do not want to unduly stifle Mr. AIKENS: I would remind you that or curtail discussion-and I allowed the hon. we are discussing the vote for the Central member to proceed along these lines-but I Division and Mackay Railway and the Minis­ would point out his remarks are now very ter is Minister in charge of the Central Divi­ much away from the vote. I should like him tion and Mackay Railway; therefore, I am in to return to the administration of the rail­ order in dealing with the Minister. ways in the Central Division and Mackay Railway. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! I will rule whether the hon. member is in Mr. NICKLIN: This matter of conces­ order or not. I now ask the hon. member to. sions concerns the administration of the rail­ discuss the vote before the Committee. ways in the Central Division. We have a general manager in the Central Division and Mr. AIKENS: I suppose that is what the I take it these matters come before him. I Minister himself would call an impasse•. suggest that it is on his recommendation Nevertheless, if I cannot get through it, I that recommendations for these concessions shall attempt to get round it, to get over it, are made and decisions given. I am there­ or to get under it. (Laughter.) I want to fore quite in order in discussing the matter. say, if you will permit me, that the Minister I was about to point out that the Queens­ is a young man and a particularly capable land-British Food Corporation possessed an one. Perhaps the reference made the other immense advantage over private sorghum­ day in the ' ' Sunday Mail ' ' to me as being the growers, as it received priority for machinery best orator has wounded the Minister. When: and materials required. all is said and done, that opinion, as t() whether I am the best orator or not, is only The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! one man's opinion. It is like the singers I hope the Leader of the Opposition will co­ in an eistedfodd who please the adjudicator. operate with the Chair. The adjudicator's opinion may please one ancl displease others. Mr. NICKLIN: I will. I am examining the reasons why an industry fostered by the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Queensland-British Food Corporation should I have allowed the hon. member a good deal be helped and why a similar industry fostered of latitude. by private growers should not also be helped. Mr. AIKENS: I will get back to the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Central Division and Mackay Railway. The· That matter has already been dealt with on Minister, in referring to the remarks I made the vote for the Chief Office. about the colour scheme of the mail train Mr. NICKLIN: This is a vital question going through the Central Division and to growers in the Central District. I am Mackay Railway said that I had exaggerated' pointing out an industry that is operating somewhat. It is quite true that in my remarks under special conditions is not entitled to I used a little bit of irony, perhaps some special concessions. Private growers, with no ridicule, and perhaps some sarcasm. I 'sug­ priority for machinery, are not getting con­ gest to the Minister that he again get that cessions similar to those which this corpora­ book by Partridge out of the library and. tion has received. It is certainly unfair study those figures of speech. discrimination. I should like the Minister to show why a fostered industry should receive The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! help from his department when people I am afraid I shall have to be severe if the· engaged in the industry are denied conces­ hon. member C!oes not keep to the vote. sion rates. Mr. AIKENS: Very well. I was dealing Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (5.10 with the trains that will go through the Cen­ p.m.): The Minister for Transport, in his tral Division. Apparently that is not in reply to me on the last vote, afforded me order, so I will get onto something else. once again infinite interest and amusement. Mr. Power: You never got as far as The Minister for Transport always stands Petrie Terrace. up and says that at one time he used to be influenced by my fluency, by my rhetoric, and ~Ir. AIKENS: The Secretary for Public by my efforts or tricks of oratory, but of Works said that I never got as far as Petrie late he has learned to discard and discounten­ Terrace; nevertheless I am going along man­ ance them altogether. Having said that my fully and bravely, as I always do. Let me arguments are no longer worthy of considera­ deal with the administration. When it is all tion, he goes to considerable length in an said and done, the Commissioner for .Rail­ attempt to refute them. In other words, I ways is also Commissioner for the Central think I should not be too egotistical in say­ Division and in that division there operates ing that the Minister pays me more atten­ under the authority of the general manage­ tion than he pays any other member, despite ment a branch of the Inventions and Sug­ the fact that he continually says my argu­ gestions Board. Any Railway Department ments are not worthy of consideration. I employee in the Central Division who thinks know the Minister for Transport is no mean he has some suggestion or other for the orator himself. improvement of the working of the railway 1432 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

service can submit it through the general necessity for legislation and matters involv­ in the Central Division and it is ing legislation cannot be discussed in Com­ by the Commissioner; and if the mittee of Supply." Commissioner thinks it of sufficient merit he Obviously, if in compliance with that direc­ usually awards a prize. tion of the Chairman of Committees, there is Mr. Kerr: How much? a full discussion of all phases of railway administration on the Chief Office vote, the Mr. AIKENS: If the suggestion is of con­ hon. member must confine his remarks there­ siderable merit-if it will increase the after to the administration of the different efficiency of the Railway Department, if .c divisions of the Railway Department. I do will lighten the burden of the men concerned not wish to be unduly harsh but I should ·-there is a very small prize for any award like hon. members to follow the direction for it; but if the suggestion is one to do away given by the Chairman of Committees. If we with labour or increase the burden of the permit a full-scale discussion on all phases of railway employees then it will receive a par­ railway administration on each vote that ticularly fine remuneration from the Commis- would be entirely in conflict with the Stand­ ! suppose with the O.K. of the Minis­ ing Orders. ter. remember on one occasion a man got .a reward of £50 and, of course, a commenda­ Mr. AIKENS: Very well, Mr. Hilton, I tion placed on his history card for recom­ will endeavour to keep within the rather mending that scores and scores of night narrow limits of your ruling. You probably officers be dismissed from the service. In believe it to be in accordance with the Stand­ effect, that was the result of his recommenda­ ing Ordm's. I disagree with you, but I am tion. Many of them were in the Central Divi­ not in the chair, you are in the chair, and sion and Mackay District, and were sub­ consequently I have to try to obey you and sequently dismissed from the service. do what you say I have to do. Train control has been mentioned and train control operates in the Central Division and I will deal with this aspect of the matter­ Mackay Railway. I verily believe that some the specific case o:fl a man whom I understand good service to the Railway Department will was dismissed because he had committed a be afforded if there are taken into the various small breach of the law, outside the railway train-control rooms, particularly those in the service, in the Central Division. I forget his chief centres, competent train men ae name for the moment but I will look it up liaison officers to advise the train­ and give the information. Punishment in control officer. Train-control officers are the railway service is inflicted by the general recruited entirely from the clerical sec­ manager. This man, I understand, happened tions of the department. Many have never to be going home one night and saw some been outside the four walls of the office in potatoes and onions lying on the ground in which they serve as control clerks. Many of a railway yard. He picked up these potatoes them would not know the difference between and onions and just outside the railway yard a buffer beam and a guard's tail-lamp. he was accosted by a policeman. He told tl1e policeman quite frankly how he had come by Many of them have no knowledge whatever the potatoes and onions. The policeman said of the actual practical working of the Rail· he would have to carry on with the case. way' Department. These men become train­ The man was taken before a magistrate and control clerks and control the running of charged with being in possession of goods every train in their division. reasonably suspected of having been ~tolen. He was fined a small sum by the mag1strate The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. and immediately dismissed by the gener.al Hilton): Order! I am afraid the hon. mem· manager in Rockhampton. '£!nder the r_:nl­ ber is not discussing the administration of way regulations a man who IS fo.un~ ~t:c!ty the Central Division and Mackay Railway. of an indictable offence, whether It IS ms1de or outside the railway service, immediately Mr. AIKENS: I am dealing with the forfeits his job in the railway service. train-control system in the Central Division and Mackay Railway. I am not dealing with On that particular case I am goiug to read the administration of the offices. a passage from '' Hansard. ' ' I will not tell TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! who made the speech; I will offer a replica of member is dealing with railway the hon. member for Kennedy 's most hideous administration generally. I would remind tie to the hon. member who, after I have him of the procedure laid down by the Chair­ finished reading this speech, can tell me who man of Committees and I propose to read the made it. I read the following extract from Chairman's instructions in detail- '' Hansard'' :- "! desire to inform hon. members that "I now make my final appeal to the I propose to follow the practice of allowing Minister. I feel that Section 25 of the full discussion on the Chief Office Vote of Railways Act should be amended to provide each department ' so far as Consolidated for the reinstatement of an employee who Revenue is concerned and then to confine has been automatically dismissed from the the discussion to each particular vote. department because of his conviction for an indictable offence. The section was inserted ''For the information of hon. members, at a time when probably it was thought I point out that administrative acts of a desirable that employees guilty of anti­ department are open to debate but the social acts should be dismissed from the Supply. (8 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1433

department but I think that some dis· Now I come to think of it, I believe the man cretionary power should be vested in the who picked up the potatoes and onions was Governor in Council.'' in the Northern Division, but it does not It goes on after an interjection by an Opposi­ matter. tion member, which is irrelevant- The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Or-d7x=! " Where a person has been adequately If the hon. member is going to be facetious dealt with by the Courts I believe that like that, he will have to resume his seat. punishment should end the matter. If a person is in private employment and is }fr. AIKENS: I did not intend to be guilty of an indictable offence the courts facetious. God forbid that I should he have statutory powers granted by this facetious! I do appeal to the Minister now Parliament to determine the degree of that he is Minister for Transport-- ' punishment su.ch persons shall receive. How­ ever, in the Railway Department the Com­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! missioner, by virtue of the mandatory The hon. member is absolutely defying the provision of the Act, adds further punish­ Chair and he must resume his seat. ment to a man convicted by the court and dismisses him from the service. ' ' Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­ It goes on after another rather irrelevant Minister for Transport) (5.25 p.m.): In view interjection- of the very impassioned appeal by the hon. " I said it was a mandatory provision member for Mundingburra, it may be desir­ that he should forfeit his employment with able that I should speak at this stage. It is the department. I feel that discretionary true that I am the author of the extract from powers should be vested in the Governor in '' Hansard'' that he read to the Committee Council. The department has discretionary in which I made the suggestion to the then power to recommend that a person who may Minister for Transport that some discretion become bankrupt-and I understand in should repose in the Governor in Council in certain cases that can be an indictable connection with a man who had been dis­ offence-can be re-employed. I think that missed from the service for an offence that power should be extended to meet other enabled the Commissioner to exercise his cases of which I know the Minister is prerogative without any right of appeal. If cognisant. I appeal to him to make some the hon. member gets some satisfaction out change in that system." of quoting me on that matter I hope he will receive equal satisfaction from the fact that Who made that speech 1 Who is going to win the appeal I made to the Minister on that the tie~ The hon. member who made that occasion has been successful and there now speech is the present Minister for Transport. resides in every employee in the Railway He made it as the hon. member for Too­ Department the power of appeal to the woomba on 27 March, 1946. Governor in Council against his dismissal Mr. Duggan: And that suggestion has under section 17 of the Act. been accepted. I expose~ this ho:q.. member, who poses as Mr. AIKENS: He was not Minister an authonty on these questions, when he then. He put up the plea then and asked for talked about ignoring men on the job. I the reinstatement of a man who had been · quoted not one but a series of employees who found guilty of a particularly serious charge were taken into the confidence of the depart­ of personating a voter at election time. ment regarding their problems. He was as abyssmally ignorant on that occasion as he The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr is on this occasion. I have not very much Hilton): Order! I have endeavoured to b~ to rescind on the matter quoted by the hon. very co-operative with the hon. member member, because it touches the question of for Mundingburra and I am sorry he has not perhaps the morality or the ethics or by reciprocated. Now I must ask him to come whatever term you might like to describe the back to the vote before the Committee or else action of the department. But the cold, hard he will have to cease. facts of the position are that no administra­ tion can be run on emotionalism or the Mr. AIKENS: I have finished quoting rhetoric of which the hon. member makes so from the ' ' Hansard. '' You can tell by the much use. The Railway Department meets each agonised look on the Minister's face that I year claims totalling £50,000 for losses have finished. Now that he is Minister for incurred by theft by somebody in the n.~""'"v Transport, I ask him to put into operation Department. The department was obliged the very things that he so ably suggested 1944 to lay down a principle that ·any person then. I read that speech because, with all the thereafter found guilty of theft from the fluency for which the Minister gives me Railway Department would be dismissed from credit, I admit I could not have made a better the department and would not be re-employed. one. I read that speech because it does stress the point much more strongly and much Mr. Does that stand? better than I could have done myself. Mr. DUGGAN: Yes, with this exception: These men who were dismissed, some of that provision has been made for the right them in the Central Division, for picking up a of the employee so dismissed to appeal to few potatoes and onions, these men who did the Governor in Council for re-employment. not steal and who are now outside the service bec~use they cannot be re-employed, are Mr. Aikens: And the Governor in Council ent1tled to some favourable consideration. has not given consideration to a case. 1434 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. DUGGAN: That is entirely untrue. I hope that I have dealt adequately with Mr. A.lkens: Quote one. that matter while it is still fresh in the minds of hon. members. Mr :DUGGAN: The hon. member for The hon. member for Mirani raised the Bowe~ submitted a case for the consideration question of railway freights. r do not know of the Governor in Council-- of any problem confronting me as Minister Mr. PATERSON: I rise to a point of that is beset with more difficulties than that order. It is true, but in the particular case of determining a freight rate. It is a problem I mentioned the man was not charged with that has exercised the minds of many people· stealing. It was a case I referred to the in many places for many years. The other other night. He was dismissed for being day I quoted . the Amer~can magazin~ '' F?r· drunk and using obscene language whilst off tune '' in which an emment economist said, duty. '' E~en God Almighty could not fix freight rates in accordance with sound principles of Mr. DUGGAN: That does not alter the economics.'' I do not use that reference dis­ point because the man was dismissed. For respectfully. the hon. member's edification, let me say A freight rate is fixed in accordance with although he was dismissed by the Commis­ the capacity of any particular item to bear sioner, he was subsequently re-employed. the rate and in accordance with the degree Mr. Paterson: It is so. of competition. I have before me an analysis of figures showing the charges by the Rail­ Mr DUGGAN: There have also been way Department and the charges by the ship­ other' cases. If we are going to permit ping companies. We are iri this rather d~ffi­ the practice, I will concede openly and cult position-that the centres of population frankly that it is a double penalty. How are along the coast, Mackay, Rockhampton, far we are justified in imposing a ~ouble Townsville, Cairns and other places, and con­ penalty is a ma~ter ~or some aut~onty to sequently we had a very great d.egree of determine and m this case Cabmet has competition from shipping compames. accepted the responsibility in certain cases of saying that if circumstances warra~t con­ Mr. Morris: Not now. sideration the man concerned has the nght to Mr. DUGGAN: We had intense compe­ submit his case for final decision. tition between the shipping companies and Mr. Hiley: If everybody did it, there ourselves for the traffic available. I pointed would be no hope of reform. out the other day that £44,000,000. was repre­ sented in the capital liability of the Railway M;r. DUGGAN: Yes. The reason for the Department, excluding ;£28,ooo,ooo written rule is that the dismissal shall act as a cff and transferred to Treasury account. I deterrent. I do not say that every employee ~uppose about 80-odd per cent. of our expendi­ in the railway service is a potential thief­ ture is represented by fixed charges, and ! do not want to be misunderstood-but a economies in this connection cannot be small percentage of employees do think the effected without a wholesale dismissal of the department is fair game so far as the removal staff. However, to the extent to which we of goods is concerned. . There wa~ a c:;tse can get· additional revenue, our fixed pay­ recently in the metro_Pohtan area. m which ments are reduced somewhat and we have an complaints were received that timber . was opportunity not only. of meeting "':ork~ng being taken by a person every mght. expenses but of makmg so:r:re contnhnt;on Eventually the matter was brought to the towards interest and redemptiOn and makmg notice of the department and the police were a profit. notified and they found this person throw!ng into his backyard the timber from an engme. It is true that we have various rates for It was a matter of supreme catastrophe to various commodities transferred from place to this man that the only time he allegedly did place. There is discrimination in the sense it was the occasion when the police should be that there is variation, for the reason that waiting for him. where there is the greatest volume of traffic there is the greatest incentive to induce I had another case last Saturday. A man people to use the railways. I had to correct came to me and said, ''I have been victim­ an anomaly the other day. We were charg­ ised I have been apprehended for taking ing a higher rate from Brisbane to Gladstone cert~in goods from the Railway Departm~nt than from Brisbane to Rockhampton,. c·nd I am coming to you to appeal for rem­ although Gladstone was 80 miles nearer Bris­ statement. I think it is a vicious thing­ bane. That was because the shipping com­ ! have been victi.mised because I had the mis­ panies had charged the higher rate from Bris­ fortune to l•o found with certain goods from bane to Gladstone t·han from Brisbane to the Railway Department.'' This practice of Rockhampton. We have Mr. Oxenham, a very stenlin,g tecame &o widespread 'Il the Depart­ competent rates clerk, who has h~d several ment that we had to impose Lhe &evere penalty extensions in office, engaged on makmg recom­ so as to deter men who might b€ predisposed mendations to the Commissioner with a view to taking goods that did not belong t~ theY?. I do not want to be misunderstood m thiS to the rectification of these anomalies. He is connection. The great majority of railway­ working on them at _th_e present time, a~d he men think such a practice reprehensible, they is drawing up submissiOns for the considera­ frown on it and they would be the first to tion of the Government. bring befor~ the authorities any evidence that Reference has been made to a number of people were deliberately stealing property rates operating throughou~ the Sta~e. We belonging to the Railway Department. have rectified many anomahes. For mstance, Supply. (8 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1435 there wa~ t·he anomaly that we charged 12s. the hon. member for Windsor being desirous a ton on coal brought to the seaboard for use of establishing an industry in Central by the ordinary consumer but we were charg­ Queensland, and I can imagine that his first ing only 4s. 10d. a ton for coal brought for tlesire would be to satisfy the wants of bunkering purposes. That was at a time when that division. He would not want to compete we· had insufficient coal for our own require­ in Brisbane with manufacturers from Mel­ ments, It was preposterous and absurd. bourne. We should not be justified in grant­ We rectified that obvious anomaly. We have ing him an uneconomic rate to Brisbane to made many other rectifications. I want to enable him to do so, particularly if he was point out t-o the hon. member for Mirani not satisfying local requirements. -I will not give him details now-that I am conscious of the difficulty of applying a rate Mr. Evans: I gave you instances of raw that he might show should operate in both material. directions. We have a case in point in the Mr. DUGGAN: I cannot give the hon. North at the present time. very strong pres­ member a decision on the matter just now. sure was exercised on hon. members for a We have a highly competent officer in Mr. preferential rate for certain joinery coming Oxenham exclusively engaged on the task of from the North. If we made an adjustment reconstructing rates. These special con­ in that· freight rate other joinery establish­ tract rates will obviously have to be altered ments in intervening towns, such as Rock­ on 31 December, 1950. We do not wish to hampton and Bundaberg, where there are large repudiate any agreement to convey other joinery establishments-some of which, like commodities by rail to the Central Division. Townsville, cannot supply local requirements I do not think the hon. member would wish -would also apply for discriminatory freight rates. The Townsville joinery establish· me to break the contract. ment cannot supply the joinery requirements In regard to the other matter mentioned for the local hospital and yet asks for a pre­ by the hon. member for Murrumba, the ferential rate on joinery to Brisbane. Wh:­ Leader of the Opposition, it is true I have not should we give an uneconomic rate for people the particulars of the concession rates in to bring joinery to Brisbane if they cannot regard to sorghum here; unfortunately the supply the local demand or the demand in the matter was raised rather too late to get the adjacent districts~ information from the office. I understand the We have problems like that to face. We are general purpose behind them is that there are quoting timber rates from the Central these considerations-first, that we are trans­ Division to Brisbane that are uneconomic. porting sorghum for 200 miles, which is much As the hon. member for Mirani pointed out, beyond the normal distance; and secondly, it in some instances we cannot get back loading is coming forward in big bulk quantities that and it is preferable, in order to earn some enable us to use a W wagon, the biggest we revenue rather than no revenue at all, to have. The bulk nature of the goods and the quote these uneconomic rates. I went to long distance involved make it possible to have Rockhampton last year and the people there a slightly preferential rate. We do that in asked me to spend hundreds of thousands of some instances. If the hon. gentleman is to pounds on increased rail facilities, and when argue that what we do there we should do the Premier went there they asked him for to every individual, you might as well argue increased freights on wool freighted to Bris­ that the same rate should apply for a 7-lb. bane in order to get the benefit of exporting parcel as for an H wagon. It is done because that wool from the Rockhampton port. They of the volume of traffic. cannot have it both ways. In one case they Mr. Nicklin: Others have volume, too. wanted the expenditure of increased capital and in the other increased rates to divert Mr. DUGGAN: Not as big as the Queens­ through the port. of Rockhampton wool now land-British Food Corporation. I am not per­ coming to Brisbane. I as Minister have to sonally conversant with the full details of make decisions. Here, Rockhampton wanted the matter the hon. member raised but there to have 10s. each way, increased capital are the general considerations I should like expenditure and then a higher freight on wool him to bear in mind. I will have the position freighted to Brisbane in order that it might examined and if I do not have the opportunity go through the port of Rockhampton and of replying before the votes go through I revert back to shipping. will communicate by letter to him on the points he has raised. No-one is more con­ The hon. member mentioned all sorts of scious than I of the difficulties of the fixation eases. I have hundreds of cases where p1"e· of freight rates. It is all very well to say ferential rates are operating. Most: of them you can mathematically work out a certain were fixed by the department to get the formula that will apply in all cases, but it is business. impossible to do that. We have to deal with each case on its merits. There are many Mr. Evans: I mentioned durabestos. anomalies, and we have corrected many of Mr. DUGGAN: We say there is not the them. same volume of goods coming down and there Mr. Evans: When an industry closes it is no need for it. Why should we bring down is an urgent matter. joinery at an uneconomic rate when the establishments cannot satisfy local require­ Mr. DUGGAN: That is true. On this ments, and when joinery is going up from question of decentralisation we have to be fair. Brisbane~ There is no sense in that. If that There is a point wheu it is uneconomical to is decentralisation it is absurd. r can imagine establish an industry. We had the case in our 1436 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

own workshops where we were making billy­ interests in Rockhampton. It is strange that cans for 6s. 10d. and you could buy them the freight rates, the ~peeial rates that the outside for 2s. 3d.; the ones that we were Commissioner has applied, to be found in the producing were much better, but not that table No. 21 at the back of the Commis­ much better. I agreed with the Commissioner sioner's report, apply from Capella to Bajool. that we should discontinue producing them at Evidently there has been no application by an uneconomic rate. We can have such a Waiter Reid for coneessional freight rates to thing as the development of uneconomic Gladstone. industry. I am not going to say whether the industry that closed down was uneconomic or An Opposition Member: You know why,. not. do you noU Mr. Evans: That is not an analogy. Mr. BURROWS: As I have said, Waiter Reid & Company own considerable property Mr. DUGGAN: I do not know the facts of the hon. member's ease, so as to be able to and have considerable interests in Roekhamp­ express an opinisn. I can assure the hon. ton. The freight on sorghum from Capella member that I have not dismissed his state­ to Gladstone would be £2 2s. 4d., but if the ments lightly. Such cases are referred to rate per mile per ton from Capella to G:lad­ Mr. Oxenham and when the report comes back stone· was the same from Capella to BaJool, to me I examine the information and discuss it would be only £1 18s. 6d. a ton. Notwith­ them with the Commissioner, and if there is standing the fact that the corporation could any adjustment that can reasonably be made save 3s. lOd. a ton, and in addition, as I we will do it. The hon. member can accept have said, would enjoy free storage at Glad­ my assurance en the matter. stone, Waiter Reid & Company have applied for that rate and are quite happy to have Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (5.44 the rate apply only to Bajool and then p.m.) : The Leader of the Opposition raised reconsign the sorghum to Gladstone. the point about freight rates. We in Glad­ stone have had a particularly good hiding in If we in Gladstone look with a certain respect of freight rates; and we cannot be amount of suspicion on any concessions in blamed for looking for the cloven hoof. If freight rates, I am sure that in the light of you go into past history-50 years back­ past experience we are justified. I can you find that the position in respect of Glad­ assure hon. members that so long as I am stone was very bad. here it is my intention to guard jealously the rights of the port of Gladstone and to On analysis the position in respect of see that what was put over it in the past sorghum is very interesting. Th~ .forward­ is not likely to occur again. I certainly ing agents for the Queensland-Bntish Food will make further inquiries. I have already Corporation are W alter Reid & Company of noted the special rates for sorghum to see Gladstone and they would be the people to that no unfair advantage is enjoyed by Port make representations in respect of rebates Alma in future. and concessions on sorghum. Vote (Central Division and Mackay Rail­ In order to develop my argument, I will way) agreed to. go back to 1929 when the present wool freights came into operation. We find that NORTHERN DIVISION. tapering rates, as they are termed, were applied then. In 1929 some genius in Rock· Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­ hampton-and I give him credit for being Minister for Transport) (5.51 p.m.): I move- a fairly clever rogue-discovered that taper­ " That £3,438,760 be granted for ing rates applied right to the port and that 'Northern Division' (excluding Mackay Gladstone, because it was an economic port, railway).'' could outdo Rockhampton in the economic This amount is £320,668 greater than the handling of cargo. It was then very definitely appropriation for the year 1948-49 and decided that the tapering rates cease at the £282,279 in excess of the actual expenditure Roekhampton railway station. A further for that year. rate or a reeonsigned rate, applied from the Rockhampton railway station to Port Alma A summary of increases and decreases com­ or Gladstone. That obviously gave Rock­ pared with 1948-49 expenditure is as hampton a very great advantage-according follows- to Professor Brigden, an advantage of 5s. 2d. Increases. £ £ a ton. It would be appropriate here to refer Award and automatic increases in­ cluding part paid 1948-49 .. 121,689 at greater length to Professor Brigden, who Full provision appointments, &c.', said, ''This rate bears all the appearance of 1948-49 33,323 having been designed to protect Port Alma Extra Staff ...... against Gladstone, especially when considered Employment displaced persons 42,090 in relation to the rates from Rockhampton Overtime and Sunday time and allow- to Port Alma." We find that W alter Reid ances ...... 9,405 & Company, who I presume made representa­ Fuel-Increased price .. 14,813 Stores-Increased price 17,240 tions in respect to sorghum rates, and not­ Maintenance :1\'Iaterial .. 26,881 withstanding the fact that the Gladstone Decreases. Harbour Board, as a gesture to the sorghum Extended leave and retiring allowance 4,623 project and also realising the large area of Flood damages ...... 3,079 empty storage sheds at Gladstone for storing Staff variations and miscellaneous the sorghum free of charge, own a consider­ services 136 able amount of property and have considerable That leaves a net increase of £282,279. Supply. (8 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1437

Mr. SPARKES (Aubigny) (5.53 p.m.): railways, in defiance of the Wheat Board and The Minister, in reply to the hon. member the shire councils, place these wheat-dumps for Mirani, said that special concessions may in any old place without any regard to what be given for empty trucks. I should like to is going to happen. Outside Koomamurra the ask him to consider giving special conces­ Railway Department wanted to build a dump, sions for empty trucks going out to bring in and although there was dry land on one side fat cattle. I have in mind a request that I of the line the department built it on placed before Mr. Moloney 's predecessor, in the opposite side of the line where there which a man wanted 32 trucks to take store was a veritable lake. That is a shocking eattle very close to where there were fat thing, and it is to be regretted that the cattle. Mr. Wills agreed that I was putting department does not at least confer with the up a substantial case. I had put it to him Wheat Board or the shire council concerned. from the common-sense, business point of My leader referred to the practice of the view. I said, ''If you grant this conces­ department in granting freight concessions sion they will send this cattle on the train. and the Minister said by way of reply that If you do not grant the concession they where large quantities of goods were hauled will walk the cattle on the road and you long distances it was only natural to supposE> will lose the amount of money involved in that the concession would be granted. I take the freight and the cattle will lose weight no exception to this concession over long dis­ and will not arrive at their destination in as tances but where the Minister was very much good condition as if they were trucked. '' astray was that he said it should be given Mr. Power interjected. to people who consigned large quantities. If Mr. SPARKES: There was no thought of that principle is to apply, a big company, blackmail-the hon. gentleman can deal with for ins~anc:o in the far north, would get a concessiOn m respect of 500 or 600 bales of those things. What happened~ Mr. Wills said-- wool, while the little man who produced only 20 or 30 bales would not get it and would Mr. Brnce: I know the case. thus be penalised to that extent. Mr. SPARKES: The Minister probably Mr. Collins: There are maize-growers does. Mr. Wills said, ''I will admit that who send train loads of maize. your case shows a good business proposition; Mr. SPARKES: Then the hon. gentle­ it appeals to me, but I want to point out man agrees with my point. to you that we have certain by-laws and regulations and it is impossible to do it.'' Mr. Collins: The same rate would apply I heard the Minister speak of empty trucks and to the small man as to the big man. if he could get over the by-laws and regula­ Mr. SPARKES: In the case of maize? tions, which seemed to tie up Mr. Wills, he would be able to render a good service to the Mr. Collins: Yes. department, as well as to the people con­ Mr. SPARKES: Apparently the hon. cerned. What happened in this case was gentleman was not in the Chamber when that the empty trucks rattled on, with the the Minister for Transport spoke but he does engine pulling them. It was a good strong agree with me that the small farmer should engine to pull that number of trucks. The get the same concession as the big monopoly. cattle walked along the road-walked beside There is no concession to the man who sends the trucks. (Laughter.) a train load of bullocks as against the man The Minister, in reply to my leader, who sends only one truck, or to the man who instanced a case in which a large amount of sends 500 bales of wool against the man who goods was being moved at special rates. I do sends only 20 bales. There is no preferential not agree with that, because I believe that a treatment because of quantity, and there person with a small amount of sorghum should not be. There should be no prefer­ grown in the North is entitled to the same ence at all. I want to draw the attention of concession as a large amount of sorghum the Minister deputising for the Minister for grown in the Central Division. The Minister Transport, who has gone away, to that point. does not me any concession if I order It seemed rather strange to me that a Labour a special for bullocks. I pay the same Government should give a preference to a rates-and rightly so-as the man who orders monopoly or a big concern and deny it to a one K wagon. If the hon. gentleman sub­ small man. I do not know whether the hon. scribes to the principle of giving concessions member for Carna:rvon supports that prin­ for bulk consignments, why should the ciple or not. If he does I am disappointed principle not apply to cattle too~ I am not in him. I should think that he would not suggesting that it should, as I believe the support someone who owned, say, half the person with one truck should get the same orchards at Stanthorpe who wanted to send rate as the man with 50. I believe that a a truckload of fruit by rail at a concessional man with one truck of sorghum should get rate as against an orchardist who had only a the same rate as the man with 100 trucks, small consignment to truck. I am surprised and if the Minister is consistent he must that the hon. member for Carnarvon supports give the desired rebate on cattle. the big monopolist as against the small man. There are prospects in the North of grow­ Mr. HILTON: Mr. Mann, I rise to a point ing a little bit of wheat, and I am hoping of order. The statement made by the hon. that the wheat-growers will not fall into the member for Aubigny, in addition to being same trouble as those in the South have. I . irrelevant, is incorrect. I never indicated by warn the Minister that in the South the interjection that I supported the big man. 1438 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply

Mr. SPARKES: I did not say the hon. concessions; now we are to hand it another. member did. I said I was rather surprised Surely the farmer in the South is entitled to that hon. members opposite support this cori­ the same concessions as they are getting in cessional freight rate to a corporation, especi­ the North. I hope the Minister will take heed ally when they have often told me, "You of this. After all, this concern has had more represent the big man. You represent the big concessions than any private farmer on the pastoral industry.'' Downs. Mr. Graham: So you do. Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (7.28 p.m.): The hon. member who just resumed his Mr. SPARKES: Yet the hon. member for seat wanted to know where it would finish. I Mackay supports one of the biggest mono­ listened to him and I have not found out polies, which gets a lower freight rate as where he started. The hon. member is trying against the individual farmers, who do not. to take advantage of the latitude and gener­ Mr. Graham: Tell us what it is. osity of the Chair to again attack the sorg­ hum project in Central Queensland. M,r. SPARKES: It is the freight on sorghum. Mr. Pie: That is a reflection on the Chair. Mr. Graham: Is that in Mackay? Mr. Sparkes interjected. Mr. SPARKES: Unless it is in Mackay it does not affect the hon. member. We have The CHAIRMAN: Order! a broader view than that. It is wrong that Mr. Sparkes: You are trying to get even the Government should adopt that attitude. because he did not give you the call. I hope that the Minister in charge of the vote will take the matter up with the Minis­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! I warn the ter for Transport when he returns. hon. member for Aubigny that if he does not obey my call to order I will take steps to make )fr. Foley interjected. him do so. If he continues to disregard my Mr. SPARKES: If the hon. gentleman authority I will name him. can find any individual farmer in his elec­ Mr. BURROWS: According to the Com­ toral getting a similar concessional freight missioner's report certain rate concessions rate he can tell me. The Government should were granted on export sorghum to Britain. take steps to see that the small man also can take advantage of the concessional rate. Mr. Sparkes: Not to Britain. Mr. CoHins: He does get a decent go. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. SPARKES: He is not getting a Mr. Sparkes: It went to Moura. decent go if he pays nearly double the freight paid by the big monopoly that pays no rent Mr. BURROWS: The hon. member's and no taxes. geography is so good that he thinks Moura is in the North and he thinks the South Pole Mr. Graham: You are not concerned is somewhere near the equator. (Laughter.) about the poor man. Moura is 50 miles due west of Biloela. The hon. member is all mixed up; he is bushed. Mr. SPARKES: The hon. member stands The hon. member took advantage of the for the big monopolist. His very attitude generosity of the Chair to get in a bit of in introducing this freight rate shows that. propaganda against the people of England I hope that the Minister will see that the because they dared to exercise their right to small man gets a fairer go. If not, he will elect a democratic Government. That is the disappear. The Minister said it was the long­ cause of the opposition to the sorghum pro­ distance haulages that we:r:e taken into con­ ject-that it will feed the unfortunate people sideration. We find that the distance is about in Britain. 60 miles in one case. What consideration will they give to the man whose wool is Tu get back to the point: if an application hauled about 1,000 miles from the North !I is made to the department, for various They are not going to give the little fellow reasons as set out in the Commissioner's any concession at all. When the Leader of report concessions will be given, and included the Opposition brought this matter up, I in those reasons is assistance to industry. thought he had made a mistake. I could The hon. member must appreciate, if he were hardly believe my eyes when I read the con­ capable of appreciation, that the Commis­ cessions that were given. sioner .does not go round canvassing and offering these concession rates. If the hon, Mr. F'oley: You did not read the next member can stand and quote the case of any page. small or large grower, or for that matter any individual grower, who wanted to export Mr. SPARKES: There was no occasion; it is bad enough on that one and God· knows sorghum and who made application to the what it would be on the next one. I thought Commissioner and was refused the same con­ it fair to stop at the first page; goodness cession as was granted to these other people knows where we should finish if we went to he would have a very good case and I should the next page. The Government would be be happy to support him, but to stand on well advised to be more careful about grant­ this floor and make all sorts of wild charges ing these huge concessions to a big monopoly. and allegations that are not founded on This monopoly that has nearly driven many fact-- farmers from their livelihood has already had ~Ir. Sparkes: They are in the Estimates. Supply. (8 NOVEMBER,) Supply. 1439

Mr. BURROWS: They are not. As I grant concessions to various industries, pointed out, the Queensland-British Food various classes of passengers, and so on. Corporation made application for certain con· Therefore, I cannot see any justification for eessions in respect of sorghum for export. discrimination on that basis. That being so, Anybody has the right to make such an I take it that in the Northern Division the application, whether he be on the Atherton po~icy of the Railway Department is that the Tableland, at Hughenden, or anywhere else ra1lways are there to serve the people. but it is not within the province of the Corn: missioner to run round looking for every Collinsville is an important part of the small sorghum-grower in the State and asking economy of Queensland; indeed, it provides him whether he wants to export sorghum. the bulk of the coal used by the Railway However, the point I wish to make was that Department as well as the bulk of the coal the hon. member did not know the location used by other industries in the North. The Qf Moura, whether it was on the Tableland Collinsville people are entitled to the same .Qr on the border. Moura is em the Dawson consideration as people in any other town or Valley Line, 50 miles due east of Biloela. any other part of the State, yet when we The hon. member got off his course and he examine these :figures we :find, in the case of was prompted by one of two motives either second -class passengers, that the fare for a ignorance or bitterness against the pe'ople of single journey between Collinsville and Bowen England for electing a Labour Government. is 45 per cent. above the fare for the 50-mile journey between Brisbane and Southport, Mr. PATERSON (Bowen) (7.34 p.m.): and the second-class excursion return fare In December, 1946, I asked the then Minister between Collinsville and Bowen in 66j per for Transport the following question- cent. more than that for the return fare "1. Will he explain the cause of the dif­ between Brisbane and Southport. I urge the ferential treatment meted out to users of Minister to give serious consideration to the the railways as shown by the following need to have this injustice removed. It examples :-(a) Collinsville to Bowen dis­ applies not only between Bowen and Collins· t~nce 54 miles, :first ~ingle lls. 3d., s~cond ville, but between many other towns, as the ·smgle _Ss., :first excurswn return 17s., second Minister admitted; therefore, my remarks excurswn return lls. 3d.; (b) South Bris­ apply to all those towns, although in this bane to Southport, distance 50 miles :first particular case I am referring primarily to s~ngle, 8s., second single 5s. 6d., :first ~xcur­ the fares paid between Bowen and Collins­ sion return 10s., second excursion return ville. 6s. 9d.; (c) South Brisbane to Tweed After all, Bowen is the seaport and seaside Heads, distance 69f miles :first single resort of Collinsville, just as Southport is the 12s. 9d., second single 8s. 3d.,':first excursion seaside resort for many of the workers in :return 16s., second excursion return Brisbane, and just as the workers of Bris­ 10s. 9d. ~ bane are entitled to the cheap rates in order '' 2. In view of the fact that Bowen is that they may go and enjoy themselves at· t~e nearest seaside resort to Collinsville, the seaside with their families, so the workers w1ll h~ take steps to remove this injustice in Collinsville are entitled to similar con· and giVe to users of the railways on the cessions in order that the may go to their Collinsville-Bowen Line the same favour­ northern seaside resort of Bowen to enjoy a able treatment as is meted out to holiday with their families. passengers travelling on the line between The refreshment rooms can be improved South Brisbane and Southport and South considerably, particularly in the way in which Brisbane and Tweed Heads~" customers are served when they go to the counter to buy a cup of tea and a few sand­ "Hon. E. J. Walsh (Mirani) replied- wiches. In most refreshment rooms of which ' ' 1. and 2. As the hon. member is no I have had experience, there is no attempt doubt aware fares and freights on the rail­ whatsoever to regulate the order in which ways throughout Queen3land vary consider­ customers are served. In most instances it is ably. Such variations have no doubt been a case of the survival of the :fittest. I do arrived at after taking into consideration not doubt that many hon. members have had all factors involved in the conveyance of experiences similar to mine. For example, passengers and goods. If the hon. member on some occasions, although I have been the will give consideration to the various :first at the counter, I have been served factors that are involved in the :fixation of amongst the last, and on other occasions, the rates quoted by him in the respective although I have been amongst the last at the areas, the reasons for such variation will counter, I have been served before many be quite apparent to him.'' others who had been there before me. There As far as I can see, there can be only two is no attempt to regulate the order in which reasons. One is that on the railway between passengers are served; there is no system at Brisbane and Tweed Heads there is a all. In my opinion, it would be easy to greater volume of traffic and therefore it is introduce order and system. When pas· possible to grant lower rates than on the line sengers go to the counter they could stand between Bowen and Collinsville. I could in the order of their arrival and ask the girl understand that argument, if the railways serving them for what they require, so that were being run purely on a profit and loss the girl would not have to shift from her basis, but it is the Government's claim that position. Each passenger would stand in his the railways should not be run on that basis place for his cup· of tea and sandwiches and so long as the system operates as at present, be served in the order of his arrival at the under which the department is expected to counter and then pass on. 1440 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is correctly pointed out also, the average con­ nothing in the vote for the Northern Division siderate passenger does not mind or puts Ul} that deals with railway refreshment rooms. with it because he realises that women and That matter has been dealt with on the children have as much right to travel as any­ Southern Division vote. body else. The airlines provide air hostesses and the only complaint that can be found Mr. P ATERSON: It is a matter of against the way airlines are run in this administration. respect is that sometimes they are more con· cerned with the serving of alcoholic liquor The CHAIRMAN: Order! The matter than the serving of food. My view is that, has been dealt with on the Southern Division if there is to be any alteration in service on vote. trains, it should be not in the direction of providing alcoholic liquor but in providing Mr. PATERSON: If, as the hon. member greater e.omfort and greater convenience for for Bowen, I wanted to make a complaint women and children and particularly that they about this matter I should get in touch with may have their ordinary meals in comfort. the Minister and he would get in touch with the General Manager at Townsville. Mr. Sparkes: The air companies will not serve liquor unless they are asked. The CHAIRMAN: Order! No money is being voted under this vote for refreshment Mr. PAT·ERSON: In one case they were rooms and I rule that it cannot be discussed. serving whisky and other alcoholic drinks instead of giving the passengers their meals. Mr. P ATERSON: There is a vote for Mr. Morris: That is not typical of what administration. However, I do not propose happens. to take up the time of the Committee un· necessarily. I suggest that ·the alteration Mr. PATERSON: It happened on that should be made and that it would not cost occasion, when the passengers should have much. It would be a cheap alteration but been getting their ordinary meal. would be of assistance, not only to the girls Much more should be done than is done who worked behind the counters but also to at the moment in providing a cleaner train the passengers. service between Bowen and Collinsville. I With the hon. member for Mundingburra know that the train that usually runs is a I say that a considerable improvement should coal train, running from Collinsville to Bowen be made in the running of the Sunshine loaded with coal and going back with empty Express, particularly in the conditions under coal trucks. Naturally, in those circumstances which women and children travel. Everyone a considerable quantity of coal dust is blown who has travelled on that train knows-and into the carriages. Of course they become I do not doubt that passengers on other trains very dirty, no matter how clean they may could tell the same story-that it is an ordeal have been at the beginning of the run, but for a woman to travel with children. Even an improvement could be effected by seeing the mother who has only one young child is that the carriages are thoroughly cleaned obliged to look after that child all the time; before the start of every journey. If that is she dare not take her eyes off her child in done, the only dirt that will be in the car­ case something may happen to him on the riage is the coal dust that is blown in in the journey. The mother has the utmost difficulty course of the journey and not an accumula· in looking after herself and her children and tion of dust from a number of journeys. getting food at the refreshment rooms. She I suggest that the Minister should take needs milk and other food for her children. this matter up with the general manager to The problem can be overcome by setting aside see that the trains are thoroughly clean at a special compartment on the train for women the beginning of the journey and thereby and children where they could sit in comfort give the people who travel on this train a and have meals without the necessity of going greater degree of cleanliness than they have to the buffet car. I suggest, therefore, that had in the past. the train should be provided with compart­ ments specially reserved for women and Mr. PIE (Windsor) (7.47 p.m.): I have children. At present women with children listened to this debate with a good deal of frequently have to travel in a compartment interest. In the future development of North with other passengers and there is no attempt Queensland a great deal depends on this to arrange the distribution of passengers in department-its administration in the North, such a way that women and children can get the traffic section, the maintenance section, into a compartment specially set aside for the locomotive section, the stores section, all them. I suggest that the General Manager of which come under this vote. The Northern in North Queensland might give serious con· Division is controlled by the general manager sideration to this suggestion. If it was for the Northern Division and if any question acceded to, obviously women with children is raised in Brisbane concerning the Northern could have meals in this compartment with­ Division the Commissioner will refer the out feeling that they are a source Of annoy­ matter to him for advice before making any ance to anybody else and without unnecessary recommendation thereon. I think that we trouble to themselves. It is obvious, as the should be able to discuss all problems relat­ hon. member for Mundingburra correctly ing to the railway administration in the North pointed out, that the mother sometimes feels on this vote and so long as we confine our she is interfering with the comfort and con­ remarks to the Northern Division we shall be venience of other passengers, although, as he in order. I have always held the opinion that Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1441 it was the policy of the Government to encour­ South until these freight rates are altered, age decentralisation in the interests of You must alter them very quickly, otherwise developing North Queensland, to bring about you will never get any industry established a state of affairs whereby industries could there. This Government's policy of decen­ be established in the North to compete with tralisation is all hooey and eye-wash. They those in the South. I was one of the first gull the people into going to the North and to bring about this form of decentralisation when they get up against it they say it cannot in the interests of North Queensland and I be altered. put in property worth £20JOOO in order to do Mr. Roberts: Would you say that the so. However, when I did that I found that rate you suggest should apply to wool and goods could be landed in Townsville from coal from Blair Athol ~ Brisbane cheaper than I could send them from Townsville to southern centres. I have Mr. PIE: That interjection shows the all the figures here. For instance, there is workings of th'e legal mind of the hon. mem­ a special freight rate on goods from Brisbane ber for Nundah. I am very hopeful that he to Bowen, a distance of 713 miles, for will come to Kedron and oppose me. I have 180s. 8d. a ton or 3.0404d. a mile, but from the hon. member summed up very quietly. I Townsville to Bowen, a distance of only 117 only hope he does not go down into the race­ miles, the freight is 125s. a ton or 12.605d. course but that he comes to Kedron, for then a mile. To take goods manufactured in we shall see what happens. Townsville to Bowen at the ordinary rate It seems strange that someone down here costs ls. a mile, and to take them from Bris­ has to fight the battle for the North. No bane to Bowen, 713 miles, costs only 3d. a Labour man, except the hon. member for mile. The freight on goods from Brisbane to ·Port Curtis, has openly done so. He has put Cairns is only 2.374d. a mile, whereas from up a bit of a fight for Callide but they tell me Townsville to Cairns it is 12.86ld. a mile. he will not be endorsed next time. These men This decentralisation of industry is all theory. in the North should be fighting for the I have money in a business at Townsville. North. The member for Rockhampton should I find I cannot compete because of special be fighting for a better deal fm Rockhamp­ freight rates from Brisbane to the northern ton in freight rates. centres. It has been said that one· should apply for special freight rates. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. Evans: You did not get them. Mr. PIE: Let us get to Mackay. If we want to send goods from Brisbane to Mackay, Mr. PIE: I did apply and I got them. it costs· 4.013 pence a mile and if we send But they say that is discrimination and ij; them from Townsville-- is wrong. The Minister has treated me veiy fairly. He has taken over a job that has ·The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mackay is not been neglected for years and years. His is in the Northern Division. a very difficult job and he has to try to Mr. PIE: If we send them from Towns­ straighten things out. The freight question ville to Mackay it is 7.183 pence a. mile-a is one that is always predominant. Northern difference of 3d. a mile. The Government Queensland will not develop until we get are discriminating against the North and the freight rat·es with the South that will give sooner they rectify the injustice the better. us equality of competition. I want to develop North Queensland from Mackay northwards We have heard the old story of scoured but I cannot do so under present freight wool. Scours could be put in anywhere in the rates. I have taken the matter up with the North, if there was a fair freight rate for Minister and he has given me a pretty fair scoured wool, but immediately you scour the deal. wool up goes the freight rate. We all know about decentralisation. You say '' Decen­ Bowen is worse off than any town. They tralise; put your scours in the North, at say, "We won't give you special freight Charters Towers and so on,'' but immediately rates for Bowen because you are not com­ you do that they put the freight rate up in peting with sea freight, because no boat goes comparison with raw wool. What is the good from Bowen to Brisbane. Therefore you can­ of decentralising~ It is better to bring it not get any special freight rates and the down here and scour it here. people of Bowen have to pay for it.'' 'f'he I am pointing out these anomalies in order people of Innisfail also have to pay for it. that they may be rectified. The sooner we That state of things must be altered. There classify our rates and put different types of is only one way of doing it, that is to get goods into various classes and provide a uni­ one special freight rate per mile from Bris­ form rate per mile throughout Queensland, bane. Then all will meet on an equal basis. irrespective of where it is, the better the Why should I have a special freight rate and position will be. my next door neighbour not have one~ It is all wrong. This practice of having a law Jtir. Evans: I thought everything was for one person and not for another is wrong. rosy up there. I say emphatically that it must be altereCl. ])fr. PIE: Elverything is not rosy. I The hon. member for Townsville knows the have been visiting the North a good bit position. He is doing everything he can to lately-I have visited it for the last 20 years alter it; so are other hon. members repre­ -and I know the possibilities of North senting the North. I am not blaming them Queensland. for fighting to get these things adjusted. Jtir. Roberts: What are you running away No-one in the North could start a manu­ facturing industry and compete with the from Windsor for~ Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. PIE: To :fight the hon. member; I has to be made in Brisbane and this involves want to see him out of Parliament. Over the extra charges. The man in the North is years we have heard a great cry about what restricted by excessive freight rates. the Government have done for the Northern Special consideration must be given to people, but in the Northern Division we find these people. I make this appeal, because I -and I defy any member to contradict me believe, quite frankly, that the company with with facts-the worst railway service in the which I am associated can have a larger whole of Queensland. We heard the story industry in Townsville. Already 18 people about the rail-motor going North. Isn't that are working for this company there. Of typical of the way the Government have course, this is dependent on the company's looked after the North~ The Secretary for getting fair treatment. I make this appeal Public Instruction knows that the people in in the hope that the Government will put into his area are not getting fair treatment in effect the promises they have made of giving freight rates. I make this plea to the Gov­ >Jrnment, particularly from a northern indus­ special concessions to anyone who establishes trial viewpoint: that they review those anom­ industry in North Queensland. ,alies and alter the condition of affairs under Mr. Foley: Your case is that the man in which you have to apply for a special freight the South can compete more successfully. rate, and then give an assurance, if you want to get it, that you will not ship by steamer Mr, PIE: In North Queensland. The but that you will always use the railways. Minister has brought up the question of cost of production, but costs in Townsville or in Mr. Po.wer: Is there anything wrong the North are higher than in the South, with thaU where there is mass production. Ml'. PIE: Of course there is something Mr. Foley: Could a man In the South wrong with it. compete successfully with you in Townsville' llr. Power: What is wrong with it? Mr. PIE: There is no question about Mr. PIE: The hon. gentleman knows. that. With his bigger plant and bigger volume of output and consequent cheaper Mr. Power: What is wrong with it? overhead in the South, he can compete success­ fully with a small business in the North and Mr. PIE: If he looked after his own pay the freight north. Bowen is a perfect ,department as well as the Minister for Trans­ example of this-3d. a mile from Brisbane JlOrt is looking after his, he would have a and 1s. a mile from Townsville, only 125 miles pretty good department. away. That is what I am pleading for-the JUr. Power: What is wrong with it? rectification of freight rates. Freight rates, Brisbane to Bowen, 713 miles 3.04d. a mile, 11'Ir. PIE: Let the hon. gentleman talk Townsville to Bowen, a distance of 119 miles, about something that he knows and he will 12.60d. a mile. I give this example to the learn. Government to prove that if they desire to encourage decentralisation of industry, they Mr. Power: What is wrong with it W must in effect. decentralise from the North Mr. PIE: From the way he butted in on back, not from Brisbane to the North. The the then Secretary for Public Works and whole of the North can be developed. became Minister, I think he wants to be Pre­ Coming down the coast I can pick out various mier-the way he is butting in. He throws industries that can be developed round his chest out, just like a Premier. natural resources, if encouragement is given and special rates are granted. If canning is The CHAIRMAN: Order! done in the North, there must be a special rate on canned commodities to the southern Mr. PIE: I have made out a case. It markets, for instance tropical fruits. These has already been taken up with the Minister. problems must be overcome, and the only way The Minister knows the position and he has to do so is by sympathetic treatment by the been very fair about it. I am not criticising Government, who say they are willing to the Minister, because he is doing his best. carry out their policy of giving a fair deal As he pointed out, he has a very good officer, to the North. Mr. Oxenham, on the job. He has been on the job for two years, but there has been no Mr. KEYATTA (Townsville) (8.5 p.m.): alteration in the anomalies that exist in the The matter o:f freights referred to by the hon. North. Under normal conditions industry in ,member for Windsor has been submitted to the North cannot compete with industry in Cabinet by the Minister for Transport and the South and we are rapidly getting back to has been discussed. The hon. member for normal conditions. A special freight rate is Windsor is quite aware that ways of rectify­ given on raw materials from Brisbane for ing the anomalies of which he spoke have manufacture in the North, but after being been devised. Wherever a sound case can be :manufactured in the North they come into put up, the department will make provision competition with southern-manufactured to meet it. The position is that whereas Bris· goods, goods manufactured by industries that bane factories have a local market for 80 per have not to send the goods north at the cent. of their products and are thus able to higher freight rate. It is totally different cut costs on the 20 per cent. they export to from the days of old, when there was direct other markets, the northern factories have a shipment to Townsville and other centres. local market for only 20 per cent. of their That does not operate now. Trans-shipment products and find it necessary to endeavour Supply. [8 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1443 to compete on the southern markets with 80 aeroplanes and ships. The suggestion, as I per cent. of their production. This places was saying, is to have a trained nurse on the them at a distinct disadvantage. The train; in the carriage set apart for mothers Minister has realised this and has issued a they can travel in comfort and at the same public announcement to the effect that the time know that their requirements will be Railway Department is reviewing freight rates attended to by the nurse. If the hon. mem­ with a view to correcting anomalies. Mr. ber for Mundingburra cares to look up Oxenham has been reviewing freights for the '' Hansard, '' he will find that this matter has past 14 months and any anomalies that have been raised before. arisen will be corrected. I pay my compliments and convey my best Mr. Brand: Are you satisfied with the wishes to the general manager and position as it sta)lds ~ the administration of the Northern Mr. KEYATTA: No. I agree with the Division, the staff, and its< employees, Minister that anomalies exist, and he has who have rendered an essential service promised to correct them. It is difficult now to the people in a distant part of the State. for northern manufacturers to compete with We have a vast area in Queensland that is southern factories. Hon. members must realise sparsely populated but we have an efficient that Queensland has an area of 750,500 train service. During the years of the war square miles, that our population is only a it bore the brunt of the war movements in little over one million, and we have over 6,000 the Pacific zone and it is something of which miles of railway. Realising thi~, it must be Queensland, with its 3-feet-6 gauge, can be admitted ~hat the Government are doing an proud. Much criticism has been levelled excellent Job, backed up by a skilled and against the department but oversea officers, efficient staff. It must be remembered also including distinguished engineers, paid glow· that the Railway Department is obliged to ing compliments to the efficiency of the grant concessions in rail freights for primary rolling-stock and administration of thS" products in order to enable them to compete Queensland railways, which were able to ship S'uccessfully on overseas markets. huge armies of men virtually without a The hon. member for Windsor has admitted mishap and thus strike a decisive blow which that the Minister for Transport gave favour­ meant the turning point in the war. able consideration to his request, but he wantb Mr. Plnnkett: That was five years ago. the rates to apply generally. The matter has been gone into and it should only be two Mr. KEYATTA: Whether it was 25 years or three months till we have Mr. Oxenham 's ago it is. still an undeniable fact and a good full report. I feel confident that industry wi.ll rec~rd of administration will always bear get its due reward. Population, it must be repeating. remembered, plays a very important part in Mr. Marriott: Why not look to the the establishment of industry and that is a feature to be considered. As time goes on, future~ I am sure North Queensland will come into Mr. KEYATTA: The hort. member can its own. make his own speech; I am making mine now.. The question of better facilities ~:~nd con­ It was complained by hon. members that veniences for mothers and their children has there was no lavatory convenience on some been repeatedly submitted to the Minister. of the rail-motors but that matter has been Unfortunately, the war nullified the plan considered and adjusted. The new compo· envisaged. The question was discussed by site rail-car No. 94 will have lavatory accom­ Cabinet and it was• agreed that better facil­ modation and a number of the older types ities be provided for mothers and children on will be altered to give this convenience. New passenger trains. It was thought that a wagons on order at 30 June, 1949, totalled mothers' carriage should be put on these 2,231 and tenders are being invited for the­ trains. The matter is over nine years old construction of 200 F.J.S., four-wheeled steel and was submitted and represented by me • wagons, 1,100 V.J.M. hoppers for coal anil the war intervened and it had to be held i~ concentrates, and 100 V.H. large steel hop­ abeyance. pers for coal. Mr. Brand: Nothing has been done. The Townsville Chamber of Commerce wrote to the department under the belief that t~e Mr. KEYA TTA: Arrangements are being Townsville district had been overlooked m made at present. The ex-Minister for Trans­ connection with the supply of adequate port, Mr. E. J. Walsh, made a move in this rolling-stock and the M!inister for Transport direction and a plan was prepared. It was sent the following reply, through me- proposed to have a trained nurse in charge of the carriage to attend to the wants of 17 October, 1949. the mothers and their children. Very often ''With further reference to your repre­ little children, when travelling, become sentations in regard to the complaint made sick-- by the Townsville Chamber of Commerce concerning the supply of wagons to North Mr. Brand: All promises again. Queensland, I wish to advise that ~ollo-:r­ Mr. KEYATTA: No. This will be an ing the resumption of the coal mmes 1t accomplished fact in the near future. was necessary that the transport of coal Materials and other matters have held the be accorded a high priority in order that plan up. Plans are proceeding to provide the depleted stocks of essential undertak­ accommodation of a class equal to that on ings be built up and that a reserve of coal Jll444 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

be provided to tide the community over that ·deviation. Therefore, the Government the period of the close down of the mines adopted the alternative progra=e of build­ at Christmas time. ing these high-level bridges. ''At the same time the Department was I am pleased to note, too, that six carriages called upon to meet, in the Northern Divi­ are being converted into camping wagons, sion, orders for the supply of wagons to each divided into a workroom and living-room remove over 4,000 tons of fertiliser, in addi­ by means of a cross-partition and sliding tion to a heavy shipment of overseas cement, door. The living room has three sets of two­ and a consignment of lumber involving over tier berths to sleep six persons, a table to 100 eight-wheeled wagons for conveyance seat six, a crockery cabinet, food-storage to Mount Isa. cabinet, sink, and stove. Water will be sup­ ''Apparently many of the Department's plied from an overhead tank. That is a customers had gained the impression that greatly improved amenity for railway workers~ hundreds of wagons were being withdrawn particularly those who are compelled to travel from the North and sent to the South to service the Great Northern Railway. I empty, thereby affecting the SlliPply of am pleased that better conditions and wagons for local requirements. I can amenities are being provided for them. The assure you that such was not the case. Government are to be commended for pro­ viding this long-felt want for these essential ''I am now advised, however, that the workers. I know the hardships and incon­ position has eased and that the Depart­ veniences that have to be endured by fettlers. ment is now able to make wagons available It may be news to hon. members that I was to meet requirements. one of a railway plate-laying gang when the ''It has been pointed out to me that Townsville-Ingham line was under construc­ some delay to merchants' lorries which tion. We had to camp in tents, and, believe has been occurring is attributable to the me, there were times when the wet weather fact that there is a tendency to rush a made conditions very uncomfortable. large number of lorries into the yard Another important institution is the rail between the hours of 2 p.m. and 3 p.m. ambulance car that has recently been placed before the gates are closed." in commission for the Mareeba Hospitals "That letter shows that the department has Board. The department is co-operating with done everything possible to meet the wishes the ambulance and hospitals boards in various of the people in the North but unfortunately parts of the State by providing rail-motor there are always a small section of the people ambulances, particularly in sparsely-settled who are prepared to take advantage of any districts where roads are few and bad and situation to make political capital or to at periods when :floods make them impassable. damage the State. This ambulance work, in addition to being an errand of mercy, is very interesting. It Another matter of great importance, not renders a very fine service indeed to the only to the people of the North but to those people in the Far North. These civil and whose business takes them to and from the railway ambulances render first aid on the North, is the erection of a nigh-level bridge job, and they are always ready to help when at Giru, 29! miles from Townsville, which accidents occur. The Commissioner is to be is as vital a& the Burdekin bridge. The commended for giving them every encourage­ Haughton River very often submerges the ment. present bridge at Giru in the wet season. This work is next to the Burdekin bridge on There has been much talk about the exten­ the priority list and when it is erected the sion of various lines. The Minister should department will be able to give a continuous give consideration to the northern area and rail service to the North in the monsoonal to a service radiating from the North that season. would serve both as a developmental and defence line. A line could be continued I am pleased that this work has been through the Barkly Tableland and on to decided on. I remember some time ago Darwin and to the north-west of Western travelling with the then Commissioner, Mr. Australia. Wills. He said, '' Keyatta, the trouble is not so much the Burdekin bridge, which is usually I am pleased to know that the railway submerged during the :flood season; the administration has done an excellent job, and Haughtor .River is another bridge that is an this State should be proud of the fact that important factor. There is low-lying country it is a highly efficient organisation. We have for 50 or 60 miles on either side of the rail­ barely 1,100,000 people, and although our way. I think we shall :find it may be neces­ production cost is greater than world market sary to move the line to the edge of the prices, it is possible for the primary pro­ mountain on high-level country to make it an ducers to market their commodities at a

we shall have this report in 1950, when the Railways Act had been amended to provide Government will probably bring in a schedule for the right of appeal to the Governor in to overcome the anomalies. Council by any employee who was dismissed Mr. Sparkes: Do you think wool gets a under that section of the Act. special rate~ An Opposition lllember: That is what he said. Mr. KEYATTA: They all get special rates. vV e are concerned in Townsville Mr. AIKENS: That is what he stated because although at one time 100,000 bales of definitely. I will prove that the Minister wool went through the Townsville port, today deliberately told this Committee an untruth. barely any wool goes through there. That is When the Minister talks about producing not the fault of the Government. The freight evidence-- is no different from what it was in 1908. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. The wool goes to Brisbane, but it is not the member is not in order in speaking of the fault of the railways. I instituted investi­ Minister like that. Imputing improper gations in order to try to find out why. The motives to the Minister is not in order. I wool sales may be a factor, but it is not warn him that he must not continue. the fault of the railway service or the Towns­ ville Harbour Board, which has always Mr. AIKENS: I will not say of the rendered good service. It is either the Minister what he did not hesitate to say of graziers, the wool-brokers, or the big wool me this afternoon-and was permitted to say. companies that are responsible. I have known I will treat him with kid gloves, even though cases in which the graziers of the North he did not treat me like that. These are the moved to have wool appraisals in the North public Acts of Queensland, commonly known and desired their wool to be sent through the as the statutes, and in the Railways Act we port of Townsville, but by some influence find section 25, which the Minii'Jter quoted it was diverted through Brisbane. That was in his reply to me in respect of the Towns­ not the fault of this Government or of the port ville dismissal and the Act I mentioned. of Townsville, or the fault of the people who Section 25 definitely sets out- grew the wool. This matter has been placed '' If any employee is convicted of any before the Treasurer and the Minister for indictable offence, or becomes insolvent, or Transport, who are looking into the position institutes proceedings for liquidation of his to see what inducement can be offered for affairs by arrangement or composition with the diversion of that commodity back to its or makes an assignment of his salary for nearest port, which is Townsville. the benefit of his creditors, he shall be Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (8.29 deemed to have vacated his office.'' p.m.): In the debate on the Central Division, That is the section of the Act the Minister I innocently dealt with the case of a man dealt with. That is the section of the Act I dismissed in the Northern Division at Towns­ mentioned. That is the section of the Act ville for picking up a few potatoes and the Minister told this Committee had been vnions in the yard of the railway. He was amended to provide for an appeal to the eharged with being in posse.ssion of goods Governor in Council by a dismissed employee. suspected of having been stolen and was sub­ Is not that so~ That is so, and hon. mem­ sequently dismissed. In reply to me the bers of the Opposition clearly remember the Minister for Transport proved what I' have Minister's saying that irrespective of what long thought of him, that as a Minister he he does to his ' 'Hansard'' proof ..... ( Gov­ is perhaps the most unreliable and irre­ ernment interjections)-- sponsible member on the Government front Mr. Foley: He said they have a right of bench. He stood up here and spoke appeal and so they have. vehemently and almost hysterically, deliber­ ately misstated, in a vain attempt to defeat Mr. AIKENS: He said they had the right me .... of appeal if they had been dismissed under section 25 of the Railways Act. He specifi­ A Government Member: Why don't you cally mentioned section 25 of the Act and I wait till he is here. specifically dealt with that section. I f!m. sorry Mr. AIKENS: If I wait until he is pre­ the Minister is not here. I hope he Will be. sent the Estimates will be over. I am not In the Railways Act there is also section 17 responsible for the Minister's being absent. and the Commissioner has always had power I am in my place tonight. I am doing the to dismiss under section 17 subsection ( 4) job for which I am paid. God knows where which reads- the Minister has got to. I am not respon­ ' 'The Commissioner may dismiss any sible for the Minister's absence and if I employee; and may discontinue the offices delay discussing this ease on the vote for the of or appoint other persons in the place of Northern Division of the Queensland railways employees who are dismissed, or die, or the next time the Minister and I are in this resign, or vacate office as hereinafter pro­ Chamber together it will be too late. vided.'' I quoted from '' Hansard,'' which showed That is an entirely different section from sec­ that the Minister had appealed in 1946 for tion 25, under which employeeEJ are auto­ an amendment o:E section 25 of the Railways matically dismissed if they are found guilty Act. The Minister stood up-and to reiterate, of an indictable offence. he vehemently and almost hysterically told this Committee that I was irresponsible and In support of my contention that the unreliable-and said that section 25 of the Minister misled this eommittee-I will not 1949-2Y 1446 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. say he did it deliberately; although he says The C'HAIRMAN: Order! The construc­ I deliberately mislead the committee, I will tion of new railways does not come under not treat him as he treats me-I will read this vote at all. The hon. member can deal the section of the Act that amends section with the maintenance of existing railways 17. There is no amendment to Section 25 but he cannot deal with the construction of which is the section with which we are deal: new lines. ing. Section 3 of the amending Act of 1946 says- Mr. AIKENS: I will deal then with the '' The following provision is added to focal point, the reconditioning and main­ subsection (four) of section seventeen of the Principal Act:- tenance of the line from Alma-den to For­ sayth, which is at present in commission and .' ~ny employee dismissed by the Com­ under the administrative contTol of the Com­ missioner by way of punishment--' " missioner for Railways. Listen to it- " ' ....by way of punishment may appeal Why, then, did the Secretary for Agricul­ from such dismissal by a memorial to the ture and Stock, who represents part of that Governor in Council within a time and in area, become so suddenly interested in the the manner to be prescribed by the regu­ Alma-den-Forsayth railway~ If anyone cares lations; and the decision of the Governor to read the Townsville ''Daily Bulletin'' he in Council on such appeal shall be final will read of a big conference that took place and shall be binding on both the Com­ in Alma-den only recently, attended by all the missioner and such employee.' '' public and interested men from the Gulf So when the Minit>ter told this Committee that and Peninsula country, and which passed a person who was automatically dismissed a vote of appreciation for the work that because he had been found guilty of an had been done by me towards the recon­ indictable offence had the right of appeal to ditioning of that line. They forgot to the <:tovernor in Council I wish I could say mention the Secretary for Agnculture and he hed and he knew he lied, but I will ·Stock. The Secretary for Agri ~ulture and not say it because the Standing Orders pre­ Stock said the North Queen&land Development vent me from s~yir;g it, but when he says that League and its colleague, the Gulf and Penin­ an employee d1smit>sed under Section 25 for sula Development League, cut no ice but 1 conviction of an indictable offence had the am suggesting that at least they have cut right of appeal to the Governor in Council he enough ice to give him cold feet because it is says something that he knows is not true. So only since the operations of that league began much for the hysterical and flamboyant that he has realised and recognised that the Minister for Transport. reconditioning of that line is necessary for the economic salvation of the Peninsula and Gulf Mr. Power: Wait until he comes back. country. Mr. AIKENS: I regret, of course that I had to deal with him in that way. Th~ Minis­ I wish to touch now on the statement by the ter for Transport has had two or three Minister for Transport that in addition to all occasions to deal with me, with his tongue of the other benefits that were being laviS'hed on course, and in doing so failed lamentably as the Northern Division of ll)le Queensland did his predecessor. ' railways this year, a new railway station at Hughenden had been built. But the Minister The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon for Transport forgot to tell the Committee member to discuss the matter before th~ -he has a particularly convenient memory at Committee. times-that the new railway station was built at Hughenden only because the old one was Mr. AIKENS: I will. I was going to say burnt down. That is the only chance we have that I only hope the present Minister does of getting a new railway station-to burn the not re~ort to fisticuffs. He might do better old one down. The Hughenden railway than his predecessor, he couldn't possibly do station, as the Minister admitted, was burned worse. in 1946 and the railway staff had to work in I wish to. ~eal no;': with the :econditioning something that· resembled a black's gunyah of the Ethendge railway for Its whole dis­ for two years before the new station was built tance. As hon. members clearly remember on and for three years before it was painted. I more than one occasion in this Cha~ber have been negotiating with certain people at I have advocated the complete reconditioning .Ayr in an endeavour to have the Ayr rail· of the railway line from Alma-den to For­ way station accidenta1ly destroyed by fire, sayth. I hav~ never heard any other hon. because we realise that that is the only chance member of this Assembly advocate the same of getting a new station in place of the thing, except that the hon. member for Mirani dilapidated buildings that serve as a station. made some reference to it. An Opposition Member: Who burnt the The other night, on the Chief Office vote, Hughenden railway station down~ lo and behold, the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock upended himself in this Chamber Mr. AIKENS: I do not know, but we have and advocated the complete reconditioning of made a contact in Ayr and if this contact does this railway line. He also advocated some­ as good a job as was done with the Hughen­ thing I have advocated since I have been here den station we shall be grateful. But then, I on more than one occasion, that is t·he con­ suppose, we shall have to wait two or three struction of the link from Cr~ydon to years for the station to be rebuilt. N at­ Forsayth and Mungana to Laura. withstanding that, the Ayr people will wait Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1447

two or three years to get a new railway ''However, we appreciate your endea­ station in place of the present dilapidated vours to bring the matter before the House structure. and would be delighted to have the matter Mr. Sparkes: You are not suggesting fully ventilated in the hope that some good that the hon. member for Carpentaria had may yet come of it. anything to do with it. ''Thanking you again and best wishes, Mr. AIKENS: He works hot, but not as "Yours faithfully, hot as that. This semi-hysterical, semi­ "H. J. Baty,. coherent Minister, who accused me of irresponsibility, made a reply to a question 'Superintendent and Secretary.'' I asked him the other day about the ambu­ That is the way in which this Labour Govern­ lance at Townsville and collections within the ment treat the Ambulance Transport Brigade Railway Department. The hon. member for at Townsville. At the Ipswich railway work­ Townsville paid several indirect tributes to shops the employees agree and do make regular the work I had done for Mundingburra contributions to the ambulance fund and those because he mentioned many of the jobs that regular contributions are deducted from their have been done since I became its representa­ pay. Every quarter the accumulated amounts tive. He went on to say that the department are handed over by the Railway Department helped the ambulance brigade and that the to the Ambulance Brigade in Ipswich. It is ambulance .were quite appreciative of the an entirely different story whe;;_ it comes to help that the present railway administration North Queensland and an entirely different had given it_. Let hon. members listen to this story when the employees at the Townsville letter from the Townsville branch of the railway workshops want to make similar Q.A.T.B., dated 17 October, 1949, about the regular contributions to the ambulance fund question I directed to the Minister and the in Townsville. Minister's reply to me in regard to ambu­ lance collections, and they will know what JUr. Sparkes: Why the differences? the Townsville branch thinks of onr volatile Minister. It starts off by saying, "Mr. Mr. AIKENS: I do not know, except Aikens, Member for Mundingburra"; some­ that this Government are purely and simply times I am called, "Hon. member for North a Brisbane and suburban Government, Queensland.'' The letter proceeds- Ipswich of course being an outer suburb of '' With further reference to the above Brisbane. It is to the credit of the hundreds matter my committee would be grateful if of employees of the Ipswich railway work­ you would raise it on the floor of the House.'' shops that they permit regular deductions to be made from their pay to support their I am doing that now. It goes on to say- ambulance centre. ' 'It is most difficult to understand the attitude adopted by the Department of Mr. Sparkes: And the Townsville men opposing any system of obtaining 100 per want to do the sameW cent. support or desiring to restrict us to present arrangements. Anyone with an Mr. AIKENS: They have wanted to do ounce of common intellect would realise it for years and they want to do it now. I how much collecting could be accomplished have letters from various unions whose in three-quarters of an hour.'' members operate in the Townsville railway workshops asking me to bring this matter To suggest that the Minister has an ounce forward so that it may be ventilated and so of intellect is paying him a compliment he that the railway employees of Townsville may does not deserve. Continuing, it says- make regular contributions t~ the ambulan~e '' As far as our voluntary collectors are in Townsville as the IpswlCh men do m concerned, they, too, have very little time Ipswich. Wh~t would be wrong in giving ~h_e and pressure is brought down if any Townsville milway employees the same faclh­ attempt is made to collect in the Depart­ ties as are given to the milway employees in ment's time. I had the opportunity to be Ipswich~ Why not agree to their suggestion present at the Railway Ambulance luncheon to make deductions from their pay eacn week following their Annual Competitions, and until there is enough in a lump sum each a comment was passed of the excellent quarter to hand over to the Townsvi:le. ambu­ co-operation given by the Q.A.T.B. and lance~ It is done at the meatworks, 1t 1s done quite obviously they cannot dispute the on the wharves in Townsville and other places, fact. Yet, in return we are deprived of a but it cannot be done at the 'l'ownsville railway great deal of revenue just for the sake of workshopt!. What happens there is that the a mere clerical effort which they are deter­ voluntary collectors on behalf of the ambulance mined not to grant. go round in their 45-minute lunch break ~nd ' 'We would not be overestimating in get whatever subscriptions the employees w1sh stating we only receive contributions from to offer. They have to forgo their lunch break a quarter of the number employed at in order to go round voluntarily and get the Townsville. We did not request for fort­ subscriptions from the railway employees. nightly deductions, all we asked that they Why should there be one rule for the railway grant us deductions to be made on the employees at the Ipswich railway workshops same basis as Ipswich, a system that from and an entirely different rule for the apparent reports is very satisfactory to the employees at the Townsville workshops~ . I Department and the Brigade. simply ask that the men at the Townsv1lle 1448 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] fiupply.

workshops be allowed to contribute and to Mr. Power: It put a lot of money back have the same facilities to contribute as are into development. given to the men at the Ipswich workshops. . Mr. KERR: That might be so, .otherwis,e Mr. Brand: The ambulance helps the 1t could not have got its percentage. You employers too. must look over the whole general picture and Mr. AIKENS: Of course. The railway be fair. Shareholders have suffered a loss ambulance officers in Townsville are loud in of dividends for 17 years or more. These their praise of the co-operation given by the dividends are mainly due to the high price of ambulance but when I asked the Minister silver-lead. The employees are also reaping to give the same facilities to the Towns­ the benefit of the high price of rp.etal in the ville men as are given to the Ipswich form of a lead bonus. men he gets up and in his hysterical, mercurial, Mr. Smith: The employees have made and volatile way says, ''No, no, no; it can­ just as great a sacrifice as the shareholders. not be done. The hon. member for Munding­ burra is irresponsible, he is making a state­ lUr. KERR: I am not denying that. I ment that is not in accordance with fact.'' At appreciate the hon. member's point. I am one time I did take some notice of the hon. dealing with the railway revenue. I am at gentleman, but now I do not. Here is the a loss to understand why the Central Division greatest display of discriminatory tactics shows such a terrific loss as against the cash against railway employees that one could see. surpluses in the Southern and Northern I am sorry that the Minister for Transport is Divisions. I should be delighted to hear not here, but I am not responsible for the from the Minister why that is so. I want to fact that he is not here. I am not his keeper give the percentages published in the Sydney -he can go when he likes and where he likes. ''Bulletin'' because they are very interesting. I am sorry he had to go away on a night I was about to give the figures when I was like this. He must have known, first, that I so rudely interrupted. was going to pin him in regard to his incorrect Mr. Power: You admit you were out of statement in connection with Section 25 of the order in referring to the Southern Division. Railways Act and if he had any perspicacity at all, he must have known that I was going Mr. KERR: I am making a comparison to pin him on the question of subscriptions and showing how the Northern Division is by the employees at the Townsville railway making a profit because of the great volume workshops to the Townsville ambulance. of traffic. In 1929-31 the return on the capital for the Northern railway was 2.503 Mr. KERR (Oxley) (8.50 p.m.): It is per cent. and in 1936-37, six years after the very interesting to observe that on the cash­ mine was opened, the percentage return on figure basis, ignoring the overhead and gen­ the capital involved was 6.087 per cent., an eral establishment charges, the Northern increase of roughly 3! per cent. on the capital Division of the railways shows a surplus of involved. Those are the figures quoted here; £744,574 in comparison with a loss in the of course, they may not be quite correct. It Central Division of £338,491 and in compari­ is an interesting example of what conces­ son with a surplus on the Southern Division, sional rates can do to establish industries in on a volume of £8,560,984, of £1,172,337. To those areas; and as an argument for decen­ me that gives a very striking lesson of what tralisation I know of nothing better than freight concessions can do for a railway. these figures. I crave the indulgence of the Committee Hon. J. LARCOMBE (Rockhampton­ to read part of an article in this week's Treasurer) ( 8.51 p.m.) : I should like to say Sydney ''Bulletin,'' as it is very pertinent in reference to the absence of the Minister to the vote. The Queensland Government, for Transport, that he is attending a func­ it says, gave concessions in freight to the Mt. tion that was organised by representatives of Isa mines. Up to that occasion, the work­ secondary industries in this State, and there­ ing of that line in many sections was highly fore he is engaged in very important work. unprofitable. Those concessions were strongly The hon. member for Oxley, who just criticised in certain quarters, but the result resumed his seat, praised the policy of the has proved how justifiable they were. I Railway Department in Northern Queensland want to point out how necessary it is to give -the freight policy that has been carried concessional freights to open up and decen­ out and is being observed by the Railway tralise industry. This article shows exactly Department in that part of the State. That what concessional freights have done for Mt. seems to be in contrast with the criticism Isa. ')'hey have decentralised industry and of the policy pursued by the Government made It profitable, not only for industry but which was discussed and condemned by other for the railways and general economy of the members opposite. If we look at the expen­ State. diture, we find that for 1949-50 they required Mr. Power: The company has just paid £3,013,800 in the Central Division and Mackay a 25 per cent. dividend. and for the Northern Division, excluding Mackay, the amount required was £3,438,760, ~r. KERR: That is perfectly true. It of a total expenditure of £14,933,600. That paid 16 per cent. ~he previous year and 7 shows that the Government are pursuing a per c:r:t. the ye_ar prior to that again, but policy of true decentralisation and expanding t~e dividends paid over a period of 20 years very greatly in Central and Northern Queens­ smce the company began operations would land. llilt .average 2! per cent. per annum. Mr. Kerr: Not in Central Queensland. Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1449

Mr. LARCOMBE: Yes, over £3,000,000 is Mr. Nicklin: Do the growers get it or provided for this year and £2,783,683 was the manufacturers' expended last year. The financial policy, in the Central Division, apart from the Con· Mr. LARCOMBE: It is immaterial. solidated Revenue vote, is progressive for the However, the grower does get the rate because current year and the following year. We the grower is consigning the sorghum. There are on the eve of enormous industrial develop­ is no discrimination, as the hon. member for ment in Central Queensland and in Northern Aubigny endeavoured to show. The rates are Queensland. available to the individual farmer in the instances mentioned, in the same way as they Mr. Kerr: You have a good example of are to the Queensland-British Food Cor­ what to follow, with what you have done in poration. the Great Central Railway. On every occasion on which a discussion takes place on sorghum and the Queensland-British Mr. LARCOMBE: I realise that. I am Food Corporation, we see the bitterness and pleased to say I was Minister for Railways hatred of this great scheme, which was pro· at the time the present Government's policy moted to develop the State of Queensland was laid down. I might say in passing that and help the British people. Why is this~ we got very little support from members of Firstly, because the Labour Government are the Opposition at that time. They condemned in power in Queensland and, secondly, our general scheme, and the Leader of the because a Labour Government are in power Opposition stated that the expenditure on the in England. We find this animus, this bit­ Duchess-Mount Isa railway was not justified. terness generated, intensified, and exploded We know that experience has entirely falsified simply because there are Labour Governments, that forecast. 17\fe have turned a mountain one in charge of Queensland and one in of waste into a mountain of wealth. A new charge of England. township has sprung up; there have been Mr. Heading: That is only your imagina­ more settlement and more increase in popula­ tion. tion, and an enormous output of wealth each year. In general, the Mount Isa scheme Mr. LARCOMBE: It is a fact. The hon. stands out pre-eminently as a decentralisation member knows quite well that every time dis­ scheme. That has come from the policy of cussion occurs in this Parliament and outside the Government, which has been attacked and this Parliament that' bitterness and that maligned here tonight. hatred and detestation are shown to the I should like to go back to the speech of scheme. And for what reason~ For the the hon. member for Aubigny in which he reasons I have mentioned. One can come to dealt with the rates on sorghum. His remarks no other conclusion, because the scheme is were not in accordance with facts and cer­ developing decentralisation, increasing pro­ tainly did not show the discrimination he duction, and helping the State and the Empire. endeavoured to show existed. In the first Notwithstanding this, the scheme is denounced place we know that the sorghum that is in unmeasured terms. This so-called Country being railed from the Central districts is Party should be supporting that scheme, a scheme that increases settlement and produc­ being railed a very long distance and in very large quantities; and those are very impor­ tion and promotes decentralisation and helps tant factors in considering railway freight the nation and the Empire. rates. Moreover, I am informed by the repre­ Mr. Nicklin: You say it is successful, do sentative of the Commissioner that sorghum you~ going to Toowoomba and Mill Hill for the manufacture of poultry foods is also granted JUr. LARCOMBE: I did not say it was a M-class rate. That is the same rate as success, but I say now it is a success; measured is being charged by the Railway Department by any reasonable standard one can apply it for sorghum from the Central West to the is a success. Certainly, it is not the success coast. that was indicated in the first place after planting and before the early frost destroyed Mr. Kerr: Is that the rate, the M-class part of the crop. The proportion of the crop rate~ has been substantial for the first year. There have been splendid results and I make bold Mr. LARCOMBE: Yes, I am informed by to say that in a decade to come that scheme the Commissioner's representative that that '"ill be a huge success and will be acclaimed is the rate quoted and that is the rate also throughout the nation and the Empire. quoted for sorghum to Toowoomba and Mill Mr. Heading interjected. Hill that is not going to the ports. Special consideration is given to these districts even lUr. LARCOMBE: The hon. member for where sorghum is not going to the ports. Wide Bay shows his prejudice and narrow­ ness. Every time he speaks of the scheme Mr; Kerr: Are the private growers in he shows narrowness and prejudice. the Capella district getting the M-class rate~ Mr. Heading: You know what I said. Mr. LARCOMBE: I am informed by the Mr. LARCOMBE: I have listened to the Commissioner's representative that private hon. member time and time again. The hon. growers are getting that rate, known as the member endeavours to sidetrack the real and M-class rate, when the sorghum is going for logical arguments of hon. members on this manufacture in the Toowoomba district. side in order to denounce and endeavour to 1450 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. discredit the scheme. The same thing was of railway freighting that t1:te longer the dis­ done in connection with the scheme that was tance, the lower the rate per ton per mile~ mentioned by the hon. member for OxleJ, The arguments of hon. members opposite are the Mount Isa scheme. The same thing was incomprehensible. They suggest that w_e done by the Opposition in regard to that should apply the same rate per ton per Jllile great scheme to develop the Mackay dis­ frem Brisbane to Townsville as from Bowen trict, the Mackay harbour. When ft was to Townsville. That is against all sound before the Assembly and the Government pro­ scientific rating practice as it has beeu fol­ posed granting a subsidy of over £250,000 lowed in this State for years and in other towards the cost the Leader of the Opposi­ parts of Australia and other parts of the tion wanted to know why the people of world for many years. Queensland should have to pay a subsidy to help build a harbour at Mackay. Mr. Sparlres: But the freights are made for the big cities in every case. Mr. The Opposition denounced the State too. Jlir. LARCOMBE: Nothing of the kind. lUr. LARCOMBE: The hon. member can­ The farmer gets special concessions, particu­ not sidetrnck and shuffle out of the issue that larly when his produce is being exported. way. We know quite well that is a fact. We The hon. member cannot deny that, nor can know quite well the party opposite turned he deny the favourable railway freights on clown a proposal by the Federal Government cattle carried over long distances as com­ in 1914 to link ep North Queensland with the pared with shorter distances. He can explain, Northe1:n Territory. That is how much they excuse or quibble as much as he likes, but t·hought about North Queensland and decen­ the fact remains that the cattle railway rates tralisation. Hon. members have spoken over long distances are low in this State. tonight about developing the North, about railway communications and so on, but we What would be the effect of increasing the know how they fought the building of the rate per ton per mile between Brisbane and railway from Rockhampton to Cairns. We Rockhampton, Townsville and Cairns~ Would know that the powerful shipping int·erests used it not mean a higher cost of living for the every possible effort to delay the building of people of the North and would it not em­ that line and it remained for a Labour Gov­ barrass the business community~ The hon. ernment to come into power and build the line member, in order to take a political rise out linking Rockhampton with Cairns and conse­ of the Government, produces arguments quently with Brisbane. virtually in favour of an increase in freights between Brisbane and Cairns. Mr. Nicklin: How many miles did you build f There is still a further aspect to be men­ tioned. I have had deputations from Rock­ Mr. LARCOMBE: Almost the whole of hampton and Townsville objecting to the low the line from Rockhampton to Cairns. rates on wool from the North to Brisbane. Hon. members want it both ways. Why do Mr. Nicklin: That is wrong. the political friends of hon. members opposite come to me and object to the low railway Mr. LARCOMBE: Of course we did. The freights between Townsville and Brisbane and ~on. member's knowledge of railway history Rockhampton and Brisbane? The hon. mem· rs very vague. I had the honour of being ber for Aubigny knows that he is impaled Minister in charge of the construction of on the horns of a dilemma. He is in an many of those sections and officially opening illogical tangle from the time he rises till them and bein:g all'Boc.iated with PremiBr he sits down. Theodore in the official opening of the final section to Cairns. Mr. Sparkes: Did you not say that wool is a paying proposition~ Mr. Nicklin: You built the final section. JUr. LARCOMBE: Hon. members can Mr. LARCOMBE: The hon. member can­ excus.e and explain as they like but t·he fact not shift his ground because he and his remams that the North. the far North in political friends have objected to the low particular, had been neglected in rail com­ rates being charged on wool from Townsville munication until a Labour Government came to Brisbane. into power and carried out the work I have mentioned. · Hon. members opposite have never done complaining about the rates charged on I have pointed out to the hon. member for the people's railways but we never hear Aubigny that he was wrong in stating that a word in protest against the high ship­ there was discrimination in the rates for the ping freights charged by private enterprise carriage of sorghum, because we quote to in Queensland and throughout Australia. growers similar rates when sorghum is going They are as silent as Dean Maitland in regard not to a port but to a manufacturer. to the freights charged by shipping mono­ Hon. members opposite complain about the polies. Why~ Because shipping monopolies freight between Brisbane and Cairns. 'l'hc" pour in the money for the sinews of war of say it is lower than between Bowen and the party opposite to :fight elections. Not one Townsville. Would not anybody expect that? word of objection or protest, never a syllable Do we not know that it is an important basiR of complaint from hon. members opposite with Supply. [8 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1451

respect to the charges made by shipping com­ Jllr. SMITH (Carpentaria) (9.19 p.m.): I panies. The hon. member for Aubigny can­ was pleased to hear the hon. member for not escape from the logic of that argument Oxley commend the Government for building and he knows very well that he · and the railway extension from Duchess to Mt. his party have never said a word to Isa, which was opposed by hon. members the primary producers about shipping opposite. However, I want to correct one freights. Why~ The hon. member who statement he made. He eulogised the share­ interjected knows that he toured the country holders in Mt. Isa for the sacrifice they had urging the people to object to Commonwealth made over a period of 20 years in the interests control over prices. The fact remains that of developing that mine, but I would remind shipping companies charge exorbitant rates him that under a consolidated award made to primary producers and the hon. member by the State Industrial Court the workers at condones that action. Never a word of pro­ Mt. Isa rec.eived a lesser rate of pay than test about the shipping companies, but all that prescnbed for workers in a similar the time a stream of criticism of the railway industry elsewhere. My point is that the service, a service run and controlled by the workers were prepared to make a sacrifice in State and the people's representatives. The order to develop Mt. Isa to its present stage hon. member cannot destroy my point by of prosperity. Of course, they are sharing asking irrelevant questions. in the lead bonus today, but why should As you said yourself, Mr. Keyatta, when they noU They made just as great a sacrifice you were speaking, there are anomalies in as the shareholders and debenture-holders in railway freights but the specialists of the order to make a success of that huge mining department are continually reviewing the concern. The miner working in the Esk dis· freight policy and these anomalies are being trict receives nearly £1 a week more than the rectified. Our policy, which is broad and miner at Mt. Isa working under the con­ general, has helped to build the Central Dis­ solidated award. The Mt. Isa miner like trict and the North but that could not have any other worker, is prepared to make 'sacri­ been done had that policy not been followed. fices to bring industry to the point of produc~ One of the most powerful forces against the tion, which has been the case at Mt. Isa. The development of the North has been the hon. member for Oxley eulogised the share­ importing party, which is supported by hon. holders and debenture-holders of Mt. Isa but memb.ers opposite. Those forces opposed knowing the sacrifices the workers there made anythmg that wouid help to build industries I thought it only right to make this in North Queensland. Its members made for­ comparison. tunes by importing goods from other parts of Australia and the world and bringing them to Mr. Sparkes: That is only a fair go. North Queensland, and while they were doing that they did not care two straws about the 1Ur. S1UITH: It is a fair go. I like to put development of secondary industries in North both sides of the question before the Com­ Queensland. mittee. It is rather paradoxical that the party I have heard the Government castigated for opposite, which crushed and paralysed the the sacking of railway men for committing North should rise now and profess concern breaches of the terms of their employment, for it. We know quite well how empty the but I know of instances in which men who North was before Labour came into power were sacked have been reinstated by the -before there were any Labour Governments, administration. For instance, several rail­ any cane-prices legislation, any Mt. Isa, or way men paid the sacrifice of dismissal for North Coast Railway. These were powerful a robbery that took place in the Cloncurry agents in the building up of the Central and district. One of these men has been replaced Northern Districts. Hon. members opposite in his- former job, with very little loss of were guilty of a grave dereliction of duty in privileges . or prestige. The second man was failing to develop the northern part of reinstated to his former position with a Queensland. Of course, they raise these restoration of privileges, including accumu­ matters only on the eve of an election and lated leave, but unluckily did not live long when the elections are over the issue of decen­ enough to take advantage of them. I mention tralisation will be as dead as Julius Caesar this to show that just aS' great things are for another three years. These protestations done by the administration in an attempt crop up every time there is an election and to rehabilitate men as in those cases where dies a natural death a month afte; the employees are compelled to sacrifice their elections are over. positions for certain breaches. It was only I submit that our rail freight policy in the through the good offices of the Minister main is an excellent one, that it compares that these two men were reinstated in their favourably with the policies in operation in old positions a few months ago. It only goes to show that no matter what crime a rail­ other parts of the Commonwealth in relation way man may comm'it, if proper repre­ to primary producers and the people generally. It has brought about the develop­ sentations are made, the position will be carefully considered and it the adminis­ ment of the Central District and the North. tration thinks fit lost privileges will be When Mr. W. M. Hughes, M.P., visited North Queensland a few years ago, he spoke restored. on his return from North Queensland of the I do not suppose any hon. member has miracle of development that had been carried grown up with the Northern Division of out. And the Labour Government was respon­ ~ailways as I have done. I have been able sible for that miracle. to follow the construction of the railway 1452 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. from 'fownsville to the Cloncurry district, An amount of £578,548 was given to the including the various branch lines built there, women and children of this State, including as well as the construction of the railway those in the Northern Division, as rebate or from Townsville to Ingham and from Ayr to concession in fares to allow women and Bobawaba, to connect up with the Bowen children residing 100 miles from the nearest section. I am the son of a. navvy. I have seaside resort to travel to the coast. seen how the Great Northern Railway has The timber industry is not forgotten. It extended and how it has opened up the got £233,460 as concessional rates over the country for the benefit of the State. whole of the State. When the hon. member for Townsville was Stock rebates apply generally over the speaking, the hon. member for Aubigny asked period but at present they are confined to whether any freight concessions were given bulla railed to places west of Hughenden to to the wool industry. The report of the replace drought losses. For the period department shows what concessions the mentioned the rebate amounted to £19,835. pastoral industry has received. Between 1926 and the 30 June, 1947, the total The concessional freight on sawn junk for freight concessions given to that industry export for the same period amounted to amounted to £1,239,876. I think that is £12,841. something of which thi& Government can be We listened to much talk from the hon. proud. We have our railways legally owned member for Dalby about his· flour mills and by the people and administered by the all the rest of it and the freight charged people's representatives. him by the Railway Department. The rebate The hon. member for Auuigny is a breeder on flour, bran and pollard to help local of stud stock-good luck to him; we are industry to meet competition amounted to happy to know there is a man who is pre­ £336,721. pared to go into this business-and he should Mr. Plnnkett: They may be justified. be interested in the figures I am about to quote. From 1 July, 1932, to 30 June, 1947, Mr. SMITH: They are all justified, but the rebate on breeding bulls, amounting to 20 we never hear hon. members of the Opposi· per cent., has totalled £11,321. tion giving the Government credit. Then there is the oorcharge for traffic from the Mr. Sparkes: Do you not think that Mulgowie branch, £7,265. On horses for helps the people away on the land. export a 30 per cent. rebate is allowed and the concession amounted to £2,117. Mr. SMITH: It does help the people on the land but we did not hear the hon. mem­ These are very interesting figures. The ber for Aubigny getting up and telling the monetary value ol' concessions in fares and people about that concession of 20 per cent. freights given by the Railwav Department that he obtains for sending these bulls to for the period 1 July, 1932 to 30 June, 1947, different places in Queensland by railway. was £4,139,681. These were given not' only to secondary industries of the State but to The hon. member for Aubigny is also a primary industries, in other words to the man dealer in store stock and for the same period on the land. I am giving these figures to the rebate on store stock amounted to have them included in ''Hansard'' to show £458,399. The hon. member for Albert and what the Railway Department is doing in the hon. member for Fassifern, who are rebates and concessions to help the primary interested in the butter and cheese industry, industries. will be interested to know that for the same It has been said that railway men are liv­ period the rebate on cream freights amounted ing under adverse conditions in certain parts to £81,500. , of the State but the Railway Department does nothing about it. We know tbat the The hon. member for Oxley mentioned recent war is responsible for the BhortA&;e of Mount Isa. For the same period the rebate labour. I will give the Committee figures on freights amounted to £860,720. for my electorate, beginning from 1946; I am not concerned with the electorates of other The hon. member for Aubigny should be hon. members. The figures for imrn·ovements interested in the rebates on starving stocK to railway cottages and new cottages are- and fodder, which amounted to £397,071 in the same period. This fodder is sent out to Improve- New the back country to feed stock during drought -- ments to cottages. periods. cottages. £ £ We hear that the Railway Department does 1946-47 .. ,. .. ,. 91 755 nothing for the women and children of this 1947-48 .. .. ,. ,. 1,550 1,079 State. Anyone living 100 miles west of the 1948-49 .. ,. .. .. 2,627 1,006 nearest coastal town may obtain an excur­ The total for 3 years .. .. 4,268 2,840 sion ticket and over the same period, from 1 July, 1932, to 30 June, 1947, a very large amount was given in this way. I intended As I stated the other night, the Minister has informed me by letter that £40,000 is being to get that information from the Minister, allocated this year for improved facilities for the last financial period, but forgot to and amenities in community centres in those do so. areas. Supply. [8 NoVEMBER.] Supply. 1453"

We often hear it suggested in this Cham­ requirements of the railways and I feel sure ber that industry and development in the that there will be a greater expansion in the North are dropping back. I have some North than in the past. No hon. member interesting :figures, taken from the Commis­ of this Committee comes in contact with so sioner's report, that refute any such sugges­ many railway men as I do. I have received tion. They relate to the revenue derived from letters of satisfaction on the representations outwards fares and freight and the following made to the present general manager of the table shows the increase since 1939 :- Northern Division. He is an approachable man at all times and union officials are happy Year Year to do business with him. His office is always ended ended open and he is never too busy to see anyone 30 June, 30 June, 1949. from the humble cleaner to high executive 1939. officers. We in the North can be thankful £ £ to the Minister because he saw :fit to appoint Charters Towers 21,472 49,394 northern men to these positions. He gave Hughenden 19,278 36,975 Richmond 15,851 39,039 the position of traffic superintendent to a Julia Creek 26,176 58,706 northern man, after the transfer of Mr. Gilliat .. 12,902 25,297 Skyring to a position in the South. These Kajabbi .. 15,989 54,430 men have a knowledge of the railway system because they have grown up with it. It will be seen from those :figures that the increase in revenue over the western lines lUr. NICKLIN (:Murrumba-Leader of of the Northern Division has been over 100 the Opposition) (9.44 p.m.): I am sorry per cent. The total revenue derived from the Treasurer is not here, because I wish to outward fares and freights and parcels was say something about his remarks. I can £1,481,085 for the year ended 30 June, 1939, assure the Minister for Transport that he left and £2,950,556 for the year ended 30 June, a very worthy deputy to take charge of 1949. It might be argued that freights have affairs, but I suggest to him that he educate gone up, but I have ascertained from the his deputy in regard to the facts of railway department that the difference since 1938-39 construction in this State, because the ia only approximately a little over 20 per Treasurer was a little bit out in regard to cent., whereas many of the increases in the certain construction work. He painted a outwards revenue have been over 100 per cent. picture of railway construction that would In the face of those :figures it cannot be lead one to believe, if one did not know, that argued that industry and development have prior to the advent of Labour, this country fallen back in the North. The very faat that was very mal-developed, and that the blacks outwards revenue has increased by over 100 were camped in gunyahs in Queen Street. per cent. must indicate an improvement in In other words, he said that not an inch of industry and production there. railway was built between here and the North The hon. member for Aubigny criticised the and that the only way of getting about in Railway Department for failing to supply the North was by means of bullock drays. trucks for the moving of cattle. I have a When we examine the facts we find that letter from a man interested in cattle in the the Labour Government were not respon­ North that discloses that so late as June of sible for designing any of the railway this year the Railway Department was respon­ systems in this State and it is a good sible for the huge success of a cattle sale thing that they were not in power when our there, because it made trucks available. We railway systems were laid down, otherwise never hear these things mentioned by hon. there would have been virtually no lines members opposite. All we hear is that cer­ beyond the metropolis. There would have tain cattle have to be turned loose because been no lines from the various ports to no trucks were available. develop the inland areas before the connect­ The following paragraph fr.om that letter ing link& between the ports were constructed. is interesting- Much credit must be given to the earlier legislators of this State for the way in which '' I am very appreciative of your assist­ they planned and developed Queensland. It ance to us in securing wagons for the June was done on the basis of decentralisation and sales which had a material effect on values it was not until the Labour Government of cattle offered.'' came into power that a centralised policy One can see from that the interest taken by began to take shape. Which Government the department in the welfare of the cattle built the North Coast line from Brisbane to producer. The department was sufficiently Cairns~ Do not forget that the Bill author­ interested to make these trucks available, and ising the construction of this line was agreed this assistance was of great material benefit. to by this Parliament in 1910-a few years before the Labour Party came into power I am pleased indeed with the appointment ·here. of Mr. Franklin as general manager of the Northern Division and also the appointment Mr. Power: When did they start to of Mr. Allison as Traffic Superin­ build it~ tendent. Both these gentlemen have spent a lifetime in the Northern Division, Mr. NICKLIN: Straight away. The and what greater reward could b'l given to Brisbane to Rockhampton section was built them for what they have done for the rail­ in 1910, with other sections following in ways~ They have a particular knowledge of 1911, and S'O on. Before the Labour Party that division; they have a knowledge of the eame into power 672 miles of this North 1454 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

Coast line had been built, or two thirds of ~Ir. AIKENS: I rise to a point of order. the line, and that was in accordance with a I certainly made an attack on the Minister Bill passed by this Parliament before the during his absence, but I was not responsible Labour Government were ever thought of in for his absence. I object to the words Queensland. After the passing of that Bill in ''mean and contemptible.'' My action was 1910, 46 miles of the North Coast line was no more mean and contemptible than attacks built every year until the Labour Party came launched on me by members of the Labour into power. Immediately Labour came Party in my temporary absence. into power in 1915 that 46 miles a year dropped to 41 miles. Immediately Labour Mr. DUGGAN: I repeat that I think the came into power the rate of construction of attack was mean and contemptible. I have the North Coast Railway slowed down! That been in this Chamber for six days during the is 1what always ihappens-everything slows discussion of my Estimates. Except for the down when Labour comes into power. luncheon and tea adjournments I have not Just in passing, I would remind hon. been absent for more than 30 seconds. members that the Treasurer, in his enthu­ Tonight I was obliged to leave and attend siasm to tell of the deeds of Labour, an official engagement of tremendous impor­ took to the credit of the Government the tance to this State and the Railway Depart­ cane-prices legislation. This, he said, Labour ment. I want it recorded before I reply in gave to this State. It was in 1913, two full tomorrow. years< before Labour was elected, that the Mr. Aikens: You will not reply; you will cane-prices legislation was enacted. He said squib it. also that Labour gave the sugar industry the embargo and the protection that enabled Mr. DUGGAN: If ever the day comes it to develop. The legislation was given in when I squib any contest with the hon. mem­ 1918 and the embargo was placed on export ber I will resign my seat. sugar at £18, when they could have sold it Progress reported. overseas< for £30 a ton. The House adjourned at 9.55 p.m. The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. NICKLIN: I have finished, Mr. Mann. I was just replying to the rather enthusiastic Treasurer who referred to the great deeds Labour allegedly had done for this State. Mr. Ingram: What lines did the Tory Government pull up~

Mr. NICKLIN: The hon. member had better not raise that question. We know that prior to every election Labour has caused earthworks to be cons