Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
TUESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 1895
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
Questions. [22 Oc:roB:Fm.] Questions. 1351
If so, out of what moneys P 3. Are moneys available (in addition to the amount required for works in progress) to pay for the whole cost of- (1) The construction of the ten proposed railways? (2) The construction o! the Gladstone-Bundaberg railway? (3) The construction of any railways guaranteed by local authorities, and to provide the advances to be made under the Sugar Guarantee Act? If so, what moneys are available? If not, how much money is available? 4. Is it the intention of the }1inistry to raise a new loan to pay for the construction of the ten proposed railways, or any of them, or any portion of the cost of the Gladstone-Bundaberg railway, or the advances to be made under the Sugar Guarantee Act? 5. Is it the intention of the Ministry to submit for approval to the House this session the plans of any other raHways ? The COLONIAL TREASURER (Hon. H. M. Nelson) replied: I may state that I object, as I have done before, to a series of questions of this sort, which have been disallowed in the House of Commons, for the reason that they amount to argument. The whole question is LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. simply asking me, as Colonial Treasurer, to make a financial statement, which it is not now the TUESDAY, 22 OCTOBER, 1895. proper time to do. However, I shall answer, as well as I can, without taking any point of order on the subject, the questions as set down. The SPEAKER took the chair at half-past 1. In reply to the first question I wish to say that as o clock. soon as Parliament has approved of the plans and sec LOCAL WORKS LOANS ACT AMEND tions of the railways proposed, and has voted the necessary supplies-a very great on1ission in the ques ... MENT BILL. tion-it is the intention of the l\Iinistry to proceed FIRST READING. forthwith with the completion of the working plans of The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a all the railways &o approved, and as each one is cmn pleted it is intended to invite tenders for its construction. message from the Governor, stating that His The Commissioner reports that he expects to be in a Excellency, having been made acquainted with position to invite tenders as follows :-Bundaberg to the provisions of this Bill, recommended the Gladstone, section 2A-tenders now in, and ready to be necessary appropriation to give effect to it. dealt with; Dundaherg to Gladstone, section 2B Mr. BELL : In presenting, in accordance with tenders expected to be invited in January next; Charle the message, a Bill to amend the Local Works ville to CunnamullH., January next; North and South Rockhampton, }1ebruary next ; Racecourse to deep Loans Act of 1880, I wish to make a statement water, February next; Hughenden towards WintonJ in the nAture .of a personal explanation. On J1iarch next; Bulimba branch, April next; and all the Friday bst I alluded, with a good deal of warmth, others will follow in due course. The working plans to the fact that His Excellency had communicated will in the meantime be proceeded with, so os to enable his assent to the address of the House, and that the Commissioner to invite tenders at the earliest date. Of conr&e any reply to that question is hypothetical; I :Ministers had withheld making the necessary do not know that Parliament will approve o! all these intimation to Parliament. It now appears from lines. a communication the Hon. the Premier has made 2. It is the intention of the 211inistry to submit to to me that he had only that morning received the Parliament estimates of the probable expenditure upon request from the Governor for that ad vice which eaeh railway line separately, the necessary ways and he always seeks from Ministers before he takes means to be provided from the loan fund, from which fund it has been the practice hitherto to pay for the action. In saying, therefore, that the Minister construction o!' railways, and there is no valid reason was in possession of the assent, and that he did for departing from the established system. 'l'rustiunds not communicate it to the House, I made a wrong will not be affected. statement under a misapprehension, and I desire 3. heferthe hon. member to the statutory statement to express my regret for having unintentionally of the Treasury accounts as published in the Govern done the hon. gentleman at the hea RAILWAYS GUARANTEE BILL. great service, not only to Queensland but to tha The SPEAKER announced the receipt of a other colonies. During the strike in 1889 or message from the Council returning this Bill with 1890 the only coal mines working in any of the amendments. Australian colonies were those about Ipswich. Messag:e ordered to be taken into consideration The e"timated cost of the line-£12,000-was to-morrow. trifling compared with its advantages. Not more than about twenty acres would have to be TIVOLI BRANCH RAILWAY. resumed, and at the very outside the land would The SECRETARY J!'OR RAILWAYS not be valued at more than £50 an acre. In (Hon. R. Philp) moved- most case' he believed the land would be given That the Speaker do now leave the chair and the free because there was no doubt that the line would House re~olve itself into a Committee of the "~hole to enh~nce the value of the property very con eonsider the resolutions relating to the proposedb ran er railway from North Ipswich to Tivoli. siderably. He might mention that the Govern ment also proposed building a line to Bulimba and Mr POWERS: This bunch of railway pro Eagle Farm, which would give the Ipswich posals having been brought down after the first people further facilities for exporting their coal. four submitted, I think the question may be He did not know whether it was on account of a raised here as to whether they should not be scarcity o£ coal at the coal mines-he thought referred to select committees. I believe that it was more on account of the difficulty of trans· this, as well as the others, should be referred to pnrting the coal-but for the last three or four a select committee, and that that course should months there had been dearth of coal at Rock be adopted unless there is a strong expression of hampton and Townsville, and in some cases they opinion from the House that it is not desirable to had had to go to Newcastle for a supply. At follow it. As to this line, th.1ugh I suppose we present the -Railway Commissioner and the will be told that we will get it in committee, we meat companies were .>imply working from hand have received no information as to what the cost to mouth on account of the scarcity o£ coal, and will be for construction or compensation, The now that they were building railways they ought two things are bunched up. The line is only to give facilities to all mining centres wher 1 mile 75 chains in length, and is to cost some ever JCOssible. This 1ine, with re~umptions, was thing like £12,000. estimated to cost £12,000. The mterest on that The PREi\!IER : Are not those matters of detail would be £480 per annum, and the working which ought to be dealt with in committee? expenses of the line would be practically nil, as Mr. POWERS : I suppose they will be con the Commissioner stated that the shunting engine sidered matters of detail. I do not know whether employed at Ipswich would be able to do all the the Minister has that information, but, if not, he haulage that was necessary. At present one of ought to get it for the Committee; in fact, the the mines had a contract with a company to Commissioner ought to supply it in his report. I carry their coal the whole way, and, as hon. wi~h to know whether that information is members woulrl know, if they had to cart coal available, and whether a distinction is to be made instead of having it carried by rail, they could in this case that compensation shall be paid for never develop their coal mines to any great land resumed, while compensation is not paid in extent. It might be said, \Yhy did nottheowners connection with other lines of a similar character. of the land build the line themselves? That had The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I been done in some instances, but he believed think I shall be able to satisfy the hon, member that it would be to the interest of the country to when the House is in committee. The com buy those private line3 back for the State. pensation will not be as heavy as was anticipated. Mr. \V. THORN : Why do they not come under At one time the owners of the land were willing the guarantee principle? to give the land free, It is all coal-wining land The SECRETAitY FOR RAILWAYS: In along the line, and I cannot see why anyone that case the Commissioner was so satisfied that should get compensation, seeing that the line will the line would pay working expenses and 4 per improve the value of their property. cent. interest that there was no necessity for Question put and passed. asking the people of Tivoli to come under the Railways Guarantee Bill. There were two or Colllli!ITTEE. three lines of railway in the neighbourhood of The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS, in Ipswich which it would be well, even now, to moving- resume, becau;,e the owners were charging other L That the House approves of the plan, section, and mine-owners from 4d. to Gd. per ton more for book of reference of the proposed branch railway from the carriage of their coal than they would be North Ipswich to Tivoli, in length 1 mile 75 chains, as laid on the tahle of the House on Wednesday, 9th charged by the (.\overnment. He did not October, 1895, think it was at all a wise thing to allow any 2. That the plan, section, aud hook of reference lJe private comp:1ny to obtain lines of that sort. forwarded to the Legislative Council for their approval, The Commissioner and the Government were by message in the usual form- quite satisfied that the line would pay. There said some five or six years ago the present were some seven mines with which the railway Secretary for Lands brought forward a motion would communicate, and the seams of coal were affirming the desirability of building that line, practically inexhausti~le. The coal wa~ the best and the proposal met with support from all sides in the colony for makmg coke, for whwh there of the House. The only reason why the railway was a large demand ln the other colonies. At was not gone on with at that time was that they one time there was a trade in coke with the other had ceased for a time to build any railways. At colonies, but, owing to the want of facilities for that time the mines in the Tivoli district were shipping, the trade had gone to Newcastle, They producing 48,000 or 50,000 tons of coal annually, had smelting works near Maryborough, and and the whole of that coal was now being they hoped to see many more smelting works in carted and punted down the river, at a very the colony. A tremendous amount of coke was much heavier cost than it could be carried by used at Broken Hill, and as the quality of the rail. In some cases the seams of coal in Tivoli coal was excellent for coking, Queensland that district were 20 feet thick. It was one might get a share of that trade. vast coal-bed, and he was certain that it The SECRETARY FOR LANDS (Hon. would benefit, not only that portion of the A. H. Barlow) wished to supplement what had district, but also Brisbane and the whole been said by his hon. colleague, the Hon. colony, if that rail way was built. At various Minister for Railways. On the 3rd of October, times the coal mines of Ipswich had been of 1890, he had brought forward a motion for Tivoli Branok Railway. [22 OcroBER.] Tivoli Branch Railway. 1353 the construction of this line, and the question of coke alone the construction of the line would was then so exhaustively dealt with that hon. be justified. There were a number of other members might be referred for information to the collieries in that district the construction of debate which took place on that occasion. What short lines to which would act as feeders to the had been said then was even more true now, as proposed line, and considerably increase the population had increased and the demand for amount of coal carried over the m;:~in line. He coal was greater. The whole of the district was did not advocate the line because it happened one immense coalfield. He might mention that to be in the district in which he was interested. one great essential in coke was that it should be He gave the Government every credit of having free from sulphur, and the coal of that region was fulfilled the promise they made three years ago. more free from sulphur than any coal in Austral It showed that they were sincere in their pledge asia. He had not the least hesitation in saying to construct the line as soon as a public-works that they would be able to take the palm for the policy was resumed ; and he was sure the people manufacture of coke from all the colonies. As in the district would not be ungrateful. He one ton of coke, required two tons of coal, it was believed there would be no risk whatever in the evident that if they secured a large cokP. trade construction of the line, and that it would be one of the yield of coal would need to be double the the best paying lines in the colony. He was glad production of coke. It was not necessary to take to know that it would be one of the first lines up time by reading the report of the debate constructed, and he was sure the Government which had taken place in 18UO. He had received would have no cause to regret bringing it forward such a large amount of support then that, had for the approval of the House. not the face of the Government and the country Mr. PHILLIPS thought the policy of extend been set against the construction of even one ing that short line into valuable coal-producing mile of railway, the line would have been country was a good one. The cost-£12,000- sanctioned then. Since then the demand for seemed to be rather heavy for a private com coal had increased, and the line would not only pany to undertake, but he would point out one benefit the mines which lay along its route, but advantage that had been overlooked. The Go branch lines would be run from other mines in vernment had expended a large amount of capital the neighbourhood to it. He regretted that the on the northern side of the Bremer. There was surface of the country was somewhat rugged. If an expensive bridge across the river, and Govern it were all flat the work might be executed for ment workshops with considerable ramifications. one-half the cost ; but, as a rule, they could not Altogether, he should not be surprised to learn get flat country where they had mineral deposits. that the Government had expended over£100,000 He believed that the line would pay from the there. That expenditure so far had been unpro start. There would be no stations, and as the ductive, but the extension of this line would traffic could be carried on by the shunting engine help to make the expenditure reproductive. For at Ipswich, the expenses would be kept down to that reason he was disposed to support the the minimum. He commended the line to the motion. Committee, not only because it affected his con Mr. POWERS asked if the Secretary for stituency, but because he believed it would prove Railways could give the amount required for the one of the most profitable pieces of railway that construction of the line independent of compen they could construct. The claims for compensa sation? tion could not amount to much, because the The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS mineral rights would be reserved, and the line said he had already stated that the compensation would be a betterment to the whole district. would not amount to more than £1,000. Mr. l!'ISHER agreed that it was desirable to Mr. FOGARTY said no doubt the line was encourage the mining industry in all its pha8es, necessary, but it should be constructed on the especially by means of railway communication ; guarantee principle. If any portion of Queens because without that communication it would be land had been spoon-fed it had been Ipswich, impossible for our coal mines to compete with and he did not think it fair to the taxpayers that the larger fields of New South \Vales. One they should be called upon to spend £12,000 for point was, however, to be borne in mind in the benefit of private owners of coal mines. If constructing a railway to a coalfield-that was, a line was asked for in a farming district, they that the coal beds might be worked out, and were told that it should be constructed on the unless the district required the line for some guarantee principle. Here the conditions were other purpose than its coal mines, the line might entirely altered-why he did not know, unless in time become useless, because when the mines it was because coal-mining was so much more were exhausted the mining population would profitable than farming. In that case the coal remove. He understood that in this case the owners were the best able to bear the burden. seams were likely to continue to be worked for a In Ipswich, no matter when it was visited, very large number of years, so that the railway they would find gangs of men working year would be a valuable asset for all that time, and after year, and it was time attention was its construction might, therefore, be justified. called to the matter. He did not care if he Mr. WILKINSON said that the working out brought the wrath of the Moreton district about of the coal beds in question was rather a remote his head, but he would say that Queensland contingency. By the time the seams were as a whole should combine, if necessary, to exhausted the r Mr. FOGARTY was sorry he had transgressed the coalmines in this locality. It simply said the rules, but thought as a new member he that the district which this line would connect might be all 12 oz. of silver and 50 per cent. lead to the their property, which had gone to ruin for want ton on top, and what will it go 100 feet of carriage facilities alone ; yet no railway was down?" He knew of other places in Aus built for them. tralia where there were large beds of coal, Mr. POWERS contended that no sufficient and it did not pay to work them, so that the reason had been given why that line should be argument as to what was going to happen in constructed without a guarantee when a guar the future was not a strong one. It was no antee was insisted upon in other districts. use saying that the line would benefit the mine1·s, Miners in the Burrum district had had to build as it would probably displace the men who were lines at their own expense almost as long as that now engaged shovelling, handling, and carting railway. The Queensland Colliery line was the coal. The Commissioner did not speak too about half a mile long, and there was another highly of it, as he said it would be worked by a line about one and a-quarter mile in length. shunting engine from Ipswich, which would run Another mine had been started by co-operative a train across the line at stated intervals. They miners, and they had had to make a line at their had not had sufficient information to spend own expense. If the Government were going to £12,000 for the benefit of half a dozen men. It make one railway without a guarantee, then was only a litHe over a mile in length, and if ever other parts of the colony should be put in the there was a line that should be constructed on same position. As to the argument that as the the guarantee principle that was one. He Commissioner was satisfied that that line would believed that any line that was good enough for pay no guarantee was necessary, that was no the application of the guarantee principle was answer, as in the case of guaranteed railways good enough for the Government to con the people of the district must know that they struct; but if it was reasonable to say that were going to pay before they would con~ent to that line was a national one the Government give a guarantee. had no right to say that the Pialba line or any The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS said other line should be constructed on the guarantee this line was not going to be built for the benefit principle. They had been told that there was of one particular coal mine, but would serve no market for their products, and the construc seven or eight mines. With regard to the lines tion of the line would benefit the miners only in the Burrum district referred to by the hon. when the demand for coal was greater than the member, the main line went between those two supply. · lines ; they were very short branches constructed Mr. WILKINSON said it had been shown on a dead level, and the cost was trifling. In the that they had a market outside for that coal case of guaranteed liries the owners of land in when it could be conveyed more cheaply and the district would be asked to guarantee 2 per with less handling than at present. It would cent., and the Government would guarantee the probably be exported in the form of coke, as other 2 per cent.; but where the Government were though a good coal it was rather soft for much satisfied that a line would !Jay 4 per cent. there handling-. As to the line benefiting only half a was no necessity for a guarantee. If there was a dozen men there was one mine in the Bundanba doubt in the mind of the Government as to a district that employed 200 men, and the develop branch line paying 4 per cent., then a guarantee ment of the mines on that line would probably would be required. Coal lines and mineral lines lead to the employment of a larger number. generally were very different from branch lines to agricultural centres. He was very sorry that Mr. McDON ALD had no objection to opening the agricultural lines did not pay better than they up any industry that would afford employment did, but there was no doubt that all branch lines to a number of men, but, if that was the principal were not paying. They ought to make this line, reason for the construction of that line, there so that all coal-miners in the district should be were other rlistricts where a railway would open charged the same rate of carriage, and be in a up industries which would give employment to fair position to compete with other coal-miners. ten men where one would be employed at Tivoli. Question put and passed. There were places in large farming districts The House resumed ; and the resolutions, as where lines could be built with very great advan reported, were agreed to. tage, and the agricultural industry was one on which the country would have ultimately to BULIMBA BRANCH RAILWAY. depend. The Allora line might just as reason COMMITTEE. ably be constructed by the Government without The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS, in a guarantee as this line, but in that case a moving- · guarantee was to be required. The hon. mem 1. That the House approves of the plan, section, and ber for Ipswich had admitted that the coal pro bOok of refere11ce of the proposed Bulimba branch line, duced at Tivoli was not too good, that it was in length 2 miles, as laid on the table of the House on soft and broke when handled, and that it was Wednesday, 9th October, 1895. only good when manufactured into coke. The 2. That the plan, section, and book of reference be industry also depended upon a reduction in the forwarded to the Legislative Council for their approval, tariff to enable them to get the coal to the sea by message in the usual form- board and compete with other coal outside, and said that the line would be a great convenience yet that line was to be constructed without any in connection with the export of our produce. guarantee. It would branch off from the Brunswick-street station, run through the property of the Gas The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS Company, from there down to the river bank, pointed out, in reply to the hon. member for Flin and along the river bank as as far the sugar ders, that considerable sums of money had been refinery. It was estimated that the line would spent by the proprietors themselves, which showed convey about 48,000 tons annually to begin with, their bona fides. There was a traffic of about and if the Railway Department charged only 40,000 or 50,000 tons of coal annually from that one-half the usual rates the line would pay district, and the industry could not be expected interest and working expenses. It was not pro· to succeed if all the coal had to be carted three posed to pay any compensation to the owners of miles by dray. land abutting on the river, as it was considered Mr. McDONALD said it might be true that that the enhanced value of their properties would a number of gentlemen had spent large bUms of be sufficient compensation. Of course it would money in preparing for the manufacture of coke, be necessary to pay compensation to the owners but be knew of one company in another place of land which would be gone through in order to which had spent about £100,000 in developing get to the river bank, as it was not right that 1356 Bulimba Branc!t Railway. [ASSEMBLY.] Bulimba Branch Railway. they should suffer. The line would be taken as expensive to take the line from Mayne to far as the Queensland Brewery along the street, the river, as it would be on a level surface, and if the owner,; of the properties on the river and would have the advantage of running bank were not prepared to give the land without down a considerable larger frontage to the river. compensation, the line would not be proceeded In this instance he thought the line was being with. The line would work cheaply because the rushed through too rapidly, before there was traffic would be only goods. 'fhe Gas Company time to come to a proper determination. It used 13,000 tons of coal annually; Dath, Hen· might be said that the line would only cost derson, and Bartholomew's sawmill carried £18,000, but no doubt the Commissioner was about 12,600 tons of freight; the sugar refinery influenced by other considerations than the cost. would provide 15,000 tons; and the brewery They had many lines on their hands which were and other people would provide 6,500 tons, a burden to the taxpayers, and every proposal The railway was part of a scheme for cou that came before them should be supported by necLing our rail ways with deep water. In the very fullest information. Sydney, there wae only one connection with deep Mr. McMASTl out of the train at the Albion, on Breakfast Creek, running along Brunswick streat. There was also and the pine logs were rafted down to the mill. the danger that after a time the Commissioner There was, therefore, sufficient traffic there might be induced to reduce the freight to the alceady, without another ton of material being same rate to Bulimba as was now charged to carried, to make that line pay working expenses Brisbane. If that were not done, no doubt the and interest. The Premier spoke about calling line would pay, as the bulk of the trade would tenders for this line next March, but even if be done lower down the river than at present; they were called next month the amount would be ships of larger draught could get to the wharvt1s lower than the estimate. The ground was nearly there, and the expense for lightemge would be all level; there were only one or two cuttings at reduce.d. Where would South Brisbane be then? Teneriffe, and not more than one house that There would be no such place as a shi pr,ing port. would be interfered with. He was very glad the There was heavy tonnage at Bulimba now, and it Government saw the necessity for taking the would be increased to ten times as much after railway to deep water. In every other port the construction of the railway. He must Maryborough, Mackay, Bundaberg, and Glad disabuse the minds of hon. members who were stone, and others-the railway ran right down to under the impression that the port of Brisbane the wharves, and therefore the Government were would be like that of Sydney. There were other acting wisely in constructing this line while pro port• on the coast of Queensland, while almost perty was cheap. Of course the Government the whole of the trade of New South \Vales was c0uld not expect to take 16-perch allotments for focussed in Sydney. nothing; but where there was a large block of Mr. PHILLIPS said the hon. member for land it was desirable that the owners should Fitzroy seemed to think that Mayne was the share the cost of the line by giving up some of it proper place for that line to start from. Possibly as the value of the remainder would be much there might be less earth works to be constructed increased. by starting from there, but the hon. member had Mr. CALLAN was in favour of all railways entirely lost sight of the question of the working being built at the minimum of expense. The of the railway. Having gone over the line, he hon. member for the Valley admitted that on (Mr. Phillips) was perfectly convinced that it the proposed route there were two cuttings, bnt would be much more convenient to work it from if it were taken from Mayne there would be none Brunswick street than from Mayne. At Bruns at all. There was a large paddock just outside wick street there was a large goods-shed, and a his house that was not at all valuable land ; the shunting engine which would be available to take line could be run across that to the bowling-green the trains down to Bulimba; and as "" mixed and from there it was quite flat right down to th~ train coming into Brisbane with goods for Bulimba river. He did not believe the Commissioner had would also carry good~ for other places, it would ever been over the line, but that he had taken be much more convenient to make up trains for the first survey as he found it. Bulimba at Brunswick street than at Mayne. Mr. McMASTER regretted to have to con The Hox. J. R. DIOKSON did not think the tradict the hon. member for Fitzroy. There hon. member for Fassifern should endeavour to would have to be two cuttings on both routes stir up feelings of jealousy on the part of South surveyed, at tht> far end near the sugar-works. Brisbane by suggesting that the rail way to The hon. member had not stated how many the Bulimba reach would in any way interfere cottages the Mayne route passed through, but it with the export of produce which it was contem would pass through about eight or nine. The plated would take place from the railway wharf hon. member sa.id the Commissioner had never at South Brisbane. He trusted that the trade of been over the line, but he (Mr. McMaster) had the country would be quite sufficient to afford seen him going over it more than once, and he payable employment,· not only to the South Bris had accompanied him over it after the deputation bane wharf line and the Bulimba reach line, but that waited on the Secretary for Railways. The for other lines which in time to come would be last surveyed line could be constructed for some considered necessary with a view to giving thousands of pounds less than the Mayne route greater facilities for the transport of goods to and though the hon. member said the line could and from deep water. The name of the line was be kept on the low land, the Commissioner a misnomer. Many supposed from the designation refuBed to take it over the swamp, as too much -BulimbaBranchRailway-that it was a railway filling up would be required, it would cross too through Bulimba, whereas it merely approached . many roads, and an over-head bridge would be the Bulimba reach of the river, and did not in necessary. He had no personal interest in the any way affect the electorate he had the honour route adopted so long as the line was taken to to represent. Still, he was very much interested the river bank where there were large blocks of in the line as a necessary public work. After land waiting to be used for factories and wharves. the repeated surveys which had been made, and There were wharves there now receiving from the frequent consideration it had received, it 40,000 to 50,000 tons of stuff, and that would be would be a mistake to postpone its further con doubled_ in the course of a few years. By the sideration, as had been suggested by the hon. Brunsw!Ck-street route the trains from the North member for Fitzroy. Where our main lines Coast line could run in without stopping and approached port"· or harbours which were adapted the trucks shunted on to the river line, whereas for export and import wharves, it would be a the Mayne route would involve a lot of shunting mi~take not to extend those lines to deep water. back from Mayne, and the stoppage of the Already there existed at Bulimba a trade in North Coast trains. coal, wood, and sugar, and, with the extension The HoN. G. THORN believed the Govern of the railway, other factories and industries ment had adopted the better route. The Secre would no doubt be established on the hanks of ~ary fo: Railways appeared to be under the the river which would give still further em 1mpresswn that there would be no compensation ployment to the people. He did not imagine to be paid for the rail way running along Bruns that there would be much passenger traffic wick street. He did not profess to be a lawyer upon the line, but believed that it would be but from what little law he did know, he said th~ used more for the export of raw material, people there could claim compensation. and, he trnsted, ultimately for the export of manufactured material. \Yith regard to the Mr. McMASTER : It does not run along Bruns route, he took it tbat it had received full wick street. Look at the plan. consideration from the Commissioner and the The HoN. G. THORN had not looked at the engineering staff, and that it might be accepted plan, but he knew there was one plan of a line as the best, but he thought that the proposal to 1358 Bulimba Branch Railway. [ASSEMBLY.] Bulimba Branch Railway. put a level crossing over the Breakfast Creek run would receive any compensation? They road was deserving of some comment. The Com were certainly entitled to it, because the damage missioner in his report said, "Should the traffic done to property by a railway running along the be such as to seriously interfere with the road street would be greater than if the line made a traffic, it will be necessary later on to cross the severance of property. Breakfast Creek road by an over bridge." There The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS said was such a continuous stream of traffic on that that the owners of property in Queen street had road that it would be very unwise to take t.he got no compensation when the tram lines had railway over it on a level crossing. He there been laid. The only people who would receive fore hoped that that matter would receive further any compensation were the owners of property consideration. As to the line itself, it should along the line between the river and Brunswick be proceeded with at the earliest possible oppor street. The owners of the land along the river tunity. would receive no compensation. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS re Mr. McDONALD was surprised that the plied that he did not think there was any neces Minister had not given any reply to the question sity at present for an overbridge across Breakfast of the hon. member for Nundah, which was very Creek road, as the principal traffic on the railway pertinent. The line was to be constructed would be goods trains, which would no doubt merely for the sake of three private firms. The travel early in the morning or late in the evening. Secretary for Railways had informed t.hem, in In Syc!ney trams ran down narrow streets and reference to the rail way they had just agreed to, round corners, and in Adelaide a railway ran that the Government were not going to construct through the main street. Of course if the traffic the line to the individual pits, but that the mine on the road became so great as to render an over owners would have to build their own branch bridge necessary, it would be built. lines. Mr. W ATSON saw no necessity for a high The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: That will be eve! bridge over Breakfast Creek road, as the so in this case also. traffic would be nearly all goods traffic, the same Mr. McDONALD: There ought to be some as it was in Rockhampton and Mackay. The provision made for a municipal or Government level crossing at \Voolloongabba was dangerous wharf before anything more was done. He did because the line ran along the road, and he had not think they had any right to construct more than once to get his buggy repaired on a line purely for private individuals. If there account of the wheels getting into the rails. was a public wharf, as suggested by the ban This line ought to have been constructed years member for Nundah, the chances were there ago ; but as it had not been constructed, now would be a great increase of shipping and of was the time to do it. He had been a member trade generally, but as matters stood no one of a deputation which had waited on the would benefit but the few people who were Minister many year~ ago, asking for the con interested. struction of this line, and on that occasion the The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: The representative of Messrs. Harper and Co. had question was not one of building a line for the stated that if the line were built his firm was benefit of anyone in particular. The line would prepared to erect a flour-mill on their land on not be carried on to any wharf; it would be the river bank. Since that time the colony had carried to land abutting upon wharves, and the been suffering from the depression, but it was owners, if they desired to do so, would have to now recovering, and there was no siding which make the sidings themselves. He did not see would pay better than the one propo~ed. The thn,t there was any great advantage to be gained hon. member for Fassifern was wrong in think by constructing public wharves, because they ing the line would run along Brunswick street. were not likely to get the same price for them It would run from the Brunswick street station that the municipal council received. Tl1eMarket to near Montpelier road, thence across the Wharf in Brisbane was leased by the council for Breakfast Creek road, through the property of .£2,000 a year, but the lessees did not get half the Gas Company, and along the road as far as that amount back ag~in. the brewery. The Secretary for Railways had Mr. McDoNALD : The lessees are not likely to told them that the sidings to the river would lose .£1,000 a year. h>ve to be constructed by the property-owners. The SECRETARY :FOR RAILWAYS: Un Mr. AGNEW said that the line appeared to forLunately they did, and they had the wharf on be a public line built to private wharves. a twenty-one years' lease. Ho ward Smith n,nd Judging by the plans, there did not appear to Company also leased a wharf for a large sum be any point where it touched land that could from the municipal council, but there w:ts be Uffed for public purposes. The line passed nothing to be made out of it. Wharves could through private properties, and passed along by be got cheaper from private individuals than Dath Henderson's-a firm who did a tremendous from the municipal council. He knew of several trade. Then it went along to the Queensland wharves at Bulimba that could be leased on very Brewery, where he supposed there would be a reasonable terms. He would again &ssnre the private wharf, and that company also would hon. member that the line was not proposed to contribute considerably to the revenue. Then it be built for the benefit of any private individual, went along to the sugar refinery, where there bnt merely because it would pay. would be a third private wharf. The majority The Ho:<. G. THORN would like to hear the of railways which had been built for private views of the hon. members for South Brisbane purposes had been paid for by the people who and 'YVoolloongabba on the question. The wanted them; but now a departure was to be Government contemplated introducing Harbour made, and the Government were going to build Trusts Bills, and it would be necessary to have a line for the benefit of three stirring private two for Brisbane. . enterprises. He did not deprecate building this The CHAIRMAN : The question before the line, but they should try if they could not secure Committee is the extension of the rail way to some land on which to build either a Government Bulimba, and not the creation of harbour trust~. or a municipal wharf, so that the public might The HoN. G. THORN said he only wished to be able to avail themselYes of the line without show that if the line were built it would be a having to use private wharves. He was sure very expensive matter conducting any shippi_ng that, from a financial point of view, the line at all from South Brisbane as compared w1th would pay, Bulimba, and he wished to call the attention of The HoN. G. THORN asked if the owners of the hon. members for South Brisbane and property in the street along which the line would W oolloongabba to that fact. It was not likely Racecourse to [22 OcTOBER.] Pinlcenba Railway 1359 that private owners would go to the expense of country than to the country in the immediate dredging the reaches of the river in order to put neighbourhood of the line. There was wharfage them in a position to compete with Bulimba. accommodation there for, he thought, the largeRt The CHAIRMAN : I must remind the hon. steamers now trading to Australia, and in the member that he is not confining himself to the not far distant future he saw no reason why they question before the Committee. should not be able to induce the large steamers The HoN. G. THORN: If he were one of the of the Peninsular and Oriental, Orient, German members for South Brisbane or W oolloongabba, Lloyds, and other companies now trading to he would expect a very hard knock from his Sydney to come to Brisbane, when they could constituents if he did not oppe>se the construction steam up to the wharves there without the assist of the line. He believed it would not be long ance of a tug, and then be in communication before the people of those districts would invite with the Southern and \Vestern Rail way system. him to represent them in preference to those who Mr. TURLEY : You know they cannot do it. now misrepresented them. He had no doubt The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS that the line would pay, and would be a great thought they conld, when steamers of the size of saving to the country, especially if a dry dock the" Buteshire" could steam up there without a was built in the vicinity which would hold the tug. He supposed they were not going to be largest ships visiting the port. satisfied with a depth of 16 feet or 17 feet at low Mr. McDONALD said the Minister informed water on the bar, anrl he did not see why, in a them that the owners of wharves would hava to very short' time, the river should not be improved connect with the line at their own expense, but sufficiently to enable the largest steamers now he did not see why they should construct a line trading to Australia to come up to those wharves. for the benefit of three or four owners. It was Every facility they could offer to bring that in the interests of the colony that they should about should be given. The; line was estimated be asked for even a larger sum than .£18,000, so to cost .£23,000, arid that at 4 per cent. would that there might be public wharves constructed in give .£920. The working expenses would not be that locality. He believed that if it were not for hip;h, as much of the traffic would be through the sugar works at Bulimba the line would never traffic to the meat works. There was a good have heen proposed. settlement in the district, :md there would be a Mr. STEVENS said the hon. member for fair passenger traffic on the line. :B~ven for the Nundah had mised a point about there being no traffic of the stock, coal, and other things required wharf at the termination of this line. That for the meat works and the shipping that would be would depend a great deal upon how the plans coming there, they·would have sufficient justifica and specifications had been drawn out, and upon tion for building this line. It could be built now at what arrangements had been made with the a comp: There was no question of jealousy about the there would be none in shipping frozen produce matter at all. The Government ~uggested hst from Roma street. The three sets of works session that they were prepared to erect cold would effectually do away with any monopoly, storage, and everyone had thought that they and he might mention that under the Meat and would do so in connection with their own deep Dairy Act anyone applying for an advance must water wharf, because they had been given to state the charges proposed to be made for understand that the depilts were to be established freezing. So far, therefore, the Government had in order to provide facilities for the export of dairy a f!Ood deal of control over the charges. produce. They had been told in the Press Mr. McDONALD said if the line was not which was the only means they had of finding· being constructed for the meat works, for what out what was being done-that a proposition had purpose was it being constructed? The hon. been made by some private individuals to erect gentleman said the work of freezing produce cold storage, but as the persons who had made could be done as efficiently at Roma street. He the offer had not "come up to the scratch," they presumed that no dairy produce was going by this had been told that the GovernmQnt proposed to line at all, so that it must be exdnsively for the erect the stores themselves, and in a pbce where benefit of the meat works. Those works had had the produce could only be taken to the placA of a very good share of public money already; they shipment by me'-tns of drays and other convey had been parnpered in every way, and he sup ances. Apparently the first site considered had posed that was the return the Government gave been altered because the Government had this for the support they received from the meat rai~way in view. The only conclusion he could industry. A certain amount of pressure had arrive at was that the Government proposed been brought to hear upon the Government, and to enable the meat company down the river that was thf' reason for this line being con to assume and maintain a monopoly of the structed. business for oome considerable time. The Minister had said there was room for 2,000 Question put and passed. tons of produce at the establishment down the The House resumed; and the resolutions, as river, but he (Mr. Turley) contended that reported, were agreed to. matterR of that sort should not be in the hands of any private firm who could establish a MIRANI TO CATTLE CREEK RAILWAY monopoly. If the Government wanted to be of The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS real assistance to the producers, they should movEd- establish those depots themselves. It was 'rhat the Speaker do now leave the chair, and the because of the high charges by private firms that House resolve itsel! into a Committee of t,he Whole to the Government had had to step in. consider the resolutions relating to the proposed railway froml\1irani to Catt!e Creek. The SECRETARY JWR RAILWAYS said Mr. POWERS : I have given a contingent he did not see how it was possible for any one notice of motion that upon this line being moved company to get a monopoly of cold storage, I would move that it be referred to a select because there were works established at Roma committee. I have not taken this course in street and also at South Brisbane. The Govern regard to the other three lines we have passed ment storage at Roma street would be just as to-night, beca,use they were small lines, and there convenient to ship from as \Voolloongabba. It were no other places for them to go to. But if ev-er was not likely that whole train loads would be there were plans which ought to be referred to a sent down from Toowoomba and \Varwick ; the select committee these ought to be. I do not produce would come in the ordinary trains which think I need speak very long upon this subject, discharged at Roma street, and the Commis because hon. members have only to look at the sioner thought he could provide as good facilitie~ plans to agree with me; in fact, I tbink the at Roma street a> at \Voolloongabba. :;\[ o doubt Ministr~· will agree with me also. The Premier the works already established would compete has said that these lines are not going to he made with each other, and he hoped the Government party measures, and will be discussed upon their works would keep the others in check. merite. The Commissioner himself points out Mr. McDON ALD said there was a great deal that this line is not going to pay at present, and in what the hon. member for South Brisbane that the best that can be hoped for is that in a year said. \Vhen meat and sug>tr were on the job or two the traffic will yield quite as large a rate nothing else got a show. They had passed a per mile as the present portion, and ultimately line for the benefit of the sugar works, and now will materially assist to make the whole line pay it was proposed to give the meat works a rail tho full 4 per cent. interest on its cost. The way. There wa. no doubt that that particular Commissioner appettrs to have been misled, judg company had a better chance of a monopoly ing from his report, as to the character of the than any other. There waR more urudnce country. I wish to refer the House not to any shipped from the wharf of that compariy than thing outside, but to what appears upon the from that of any other company in Brisbane, plans themselves, to show that we ought to have and it was only reasonable to suppose that a little more information on this matter. On the farmers would be interested in sPnding their first page I find that this extension goes through produce direct through that company. If the "good soil" timbered with "bloodwood and Government had brought down a complete pro gum .. , Then we come to "thickly timbered posal, it should have included the erection of country, yoplar and gum with sandy soil"; then cold stores, where the farmers could send their "poor sandy soil carrying popl.:tr, gum, and produce direct from the stores to the ships. The me,smate"; then "poor sandy soil, devil-devil, line was proposed to be carried •ome little di'< poplar,gum, and messmate," and so on in the same tance past the meat works, where the Govern way for miles. Next there is a ridge referred to by ment had plenty of available land ; there woulr1 the Commissioner, and then "lowswampygronnd, be no compensation to pay, and therefore they timbered mostly with tea-tree," and towards the could well afford to erect the necessary cold end, "fair soil," ''the leased part of Hamilton storage for the accommodfttion of farmers. run," "rich alluvial flat." ·rhat is all I find. The SEOHEI'ARY FOR RAILWAYS said At one place near the commencement there is it was not necessary to have cold storage along " good soil," and at the end a "rich alluvial side the wharf. At Lake's Creek the cold fht." All the r~st is sandy, miserable country; storage was 20 miles away, and in 'fownsville and when I looked to see where we get at the end it was 4 miles from the jetty. There was no of the line. what do I find ? The Commissioner difficulty in either case in shipping produce, and referred to it as "the valley westward drained by 1895-41' 1362 Mirani to Cattle [ASSEMBLY.] Cattle Creek." It is what may be termed a will yield as large a rate per mile as the present " pocket," and all the land there has been line, and that "ultimately," whenever that may alienated. be, it will materially assist to make the whole The Hon. B. D. MOREHEAD : You find nothing line pay the 4 per cent. interest on its cost. in the pocket. I asked whether this line was to be guaranteed, Mr. POWERS: There is a good deal in it; and I was answered "No." If I had known as there is some of the hon. gentleman's property much about it then as I know now, I should not in it. I looked at the pocket because I found have asked the question, because I know that no that in a geological map to be found in "Votes local authority in any district would be foolish and Proceedings for 1889" it is marked by a enough to guarantee such a line. Therefore, it little patch of yellow surrounded by a big patch had to be constructed at the expense of the State, of red, and the red patch I find represents or not at all. Looking at this map I find that granite mountain•, amongst others Mount Dal all the land marked yellow is alluvial country, rymple, which is over 4,000 feet high. and that on Sandy Creek and Plane Creek there The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION are a lot of farmers who are really bond fide (Hon. D. H. Dalrymple): Could you not find a settlers. They were asked to guarantee this later one than the 1889 map? 1'ailway, but they replied that if the country Mr. POVlERS : I will give the hon. member was going to work this job, and carry a line into one later directly. I am dealing with official such country, they must do it without their maps published for this House, and we want guarantee. I am glad that the farmers had the later information to see whether this rail way is pluck to say "No," and l hat the chamber of com what, on the face of it, it appear> to be. lt is merce backed them up in their indignant refusal. to cost £56,000 to get into a little bit of country I have not spoken to any peroon outside the which we cannot get out of without going back House on the subject. My information has or three miles on tbe line, and where there is been obtained from persons inside the House, no room for extended settlement. and from the plans alone. There is sufficient The PREMIER : The expenee is in the cost of evidence there to show that these plans should the bridge. ' be referred to a select committee. Make the Mr. POWERS : Apart from the cost of the time within which the committee shall bring up bridge, it is to cost £3,000 a mile to get to a their report as short as you like. That matter I pocket of alienated land backed up by a granite leave entirely in the hands of the Ministry, but mountain 4,000 feet high. When I look at the I maintain tbat some report should be obtained. map to see who has selected this pocket in the Then if it is shown that this is the best line to mountains, as we require to know whether those make, let us make it; but if not, do not let ns persons hold the land now, and are to benefit by make it. We ought to know to whom the pro the railway, I find the first is \V. B. Shaw, then perties on the route belong. There is one here follow P. Perkins, D. H. Dalrymple, J. M. in the name of "J. M. Macrossan." I under Macrossan, \V. A. Lewis, W. B. Blundell, stand that that belongs to someone else besides B. D. Morehead, H. A. Murray, M. P. Black, Mr. Macrossan's family. H. Abbott, P. Robertson, W. Wilson, P. Riley, The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: No, it belongs and H. A. Murray. Those appear to be the to his widow. owners of that little pocket, but it does Mr. POWERS: I was informed that that was not appear to be settled in the way we not so. At any rate, it belongs to his widow, to understand settlement. If this is put before whom this House has already paid £2,000. a select committee we can get the evidence The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS; There is no of Messrs. Hodges and Chataway, who in a necessity to bring that in. pamphlet issued this year, 1895, state that there Mr. POWERS: I only mentioned it because has been nothing done on these lands beyond the I thought there was a change in the ownership erection of a twopenny hut. On one block it is of the property ; but the hon. gentlenmn has said that twenty head of cattle have been corrected me, and I shall say no more on the fattened, on another a quarter of an acre of cane subject. I shall not mention any more names, planted, on another two acres planterl with corn, but we should know to whom these properties but it has nGw been allowed to lie fallow. That belong. I should like to hear what objtction the is what has has been done with this land whiCh Minister has to refer the plans to a select com is all within nine miles of a rail way now. 'rhose mittee. There is a large amount of country in the are the results of the settlement according to Mr. district to be alienated, but we know that a good Hodges and Mr. Chataway, who I believe is a deal of it is granite mountains, so that we are not member of this House. There is no land likely to derive much from its sale. You cannot to be benefited beyond this pocket, and I say sell land like that on Mount Dalrymple. The that even if this land was the most valuable Premier has assured the House that these rail in Queensland it would not pay to make a ways will not be made pa.rty questions. I rs,i!way into it. We are asked to make therefore hope that my motion will be accepted, this rail way for the last three miles to benefit and that we shall do whatever is best in the this "syndicate pocket," as I may properly call interests of the country. If hon. me:nber" approve it. There are persons from Mackay here now of this motion, as I think they are bound to do, who are ready to give evidence on this matter, unless the points I have raised are satisfactorily and from members of the Hcmse who have been answered, let them vote for it and refer the plans there I am confirmed in my opinion that this to a committee. With regard to the proposal to railway ought to be referred to a select com elect the select committee by ballot, I would mittee. We are asked now, in one night, to remind hon. members that this ballot i" not an approve of the plans of a railway which will cost ordinary ballot, but that each member will write £56,000, which goes through poor sandy soil to a on a slip of paper the names of seven members, mountain 4,000 feet high, and into a pocket with or whatever the number may be, to serve on the mountains in front of it, mountains to the left of committee. I move the motion standing in my it, and mountains to the right of it. name. Mr. REID: And syndicate~ all round it. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I Mr. POWERS: The Commissioner nowhere am sorry that the leader of the Opposition lost says that this line will pay, but that as it will his temper in moving this motion. There was open up about 10,000 acres of valuable cane no occasion to show so much fervour over the lands, it is reasonable to expect that from the matter. present growth of settlement assisted by rail way An HoNOURABLE MEMBER : He did not lose construction, in a year or two the traffic on it his temper. Mirani to Oattl e [22 OcTOBER.] Creek Rai"lway 1363 The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I it will help to swell the receipts of the present line. thought he did. At any rate he imported a good We all know that the working expenses of 10 deal of personality into the debate. In bringing miles does not add much to the working expenses forward this motion for the extension of the of a main line. The same engines and rolling main trunk railway at Mackay towards Mirani stock do the work of the extension, and really and Cattle Creek, the Government, after making the only additional expense is the cost of the due inquiry, consider it the best 81den,ion to extra lengthsmen. make at the present time. Their information is Mr. PoWERS : The cost of the Pialba line certainly not of the extraordinary nature that would not be much, where cane is already grow the leader of the Opposition has given to the ing. House. \Ve have no intention of taking a line The SECRETARY FOl{ RAILWAYS: I of railway over a mountain 4,000 feet high or do not think so. I am informed that there are through granite ridges, as the hon. member only 2,000 or 3,000 acres of good land there. suggested. Mr. PowERS: 20,000 is nearer the mark. Mr. PowERS : I did not say so. TheSECRETARYFORRAILWAYS: This The SECRETARY J!'OR RAILWAYS: We line is a part of a main line and not a branch line, are advised that there is a lot of very valuable so that ttle working expenses will be infinitesimal. land on either side of this railway. There must I believe that the building of the line will lead be a bridge to get to that land, and a line ten to the sale of a lot of land, and unless the line miles 'beyond that bridge will certo.inly pay is built there i" no encouragement for anyone in due time the cost of construction. I have to take up the land, seeing it is between been in Mirani, and have seen a lot of farmers 10 and 15 miles of a railway. The present there, but I have never met any of the gentle line to Mirani paid la,t year 2~ per cent. men the leader of ~he Opposition de,cribed, on the cost of construction, and the line, which and I can assure the House that none of those is only some 30 miles in length, cost £160,000, gentlemen have spoken to me about this line. owing, I suppose, to the fact that it was built in I met a Mr. Rigby, who headed a deputation boom times. If the line had been built for the asking for this line some twelve months ago, and amount for which it could now be constructed, it I have been assured since then that there is a lot would pay 5 or G per cent. on the cost of con of very good land on the other side of the river. struction. I do noG think it matters to this This line may not go through all the good land, House who owns the land at Cattle Creek but there is a lot of good land both to the north whether it belongs to Mr. Dalrymple, Mrs. and to the south of the line, and there is certainly Macrossan, l\1r. Perkins, or Mr. Shaw, or any a lot of very good land at the terminus. No one body else. I understand the land is good, and knows better than the leader of the Opposition will be placed under cultivation if railway facili what poor rubbishy land you have to go through ties are afforded. I see no reason why it should before you come to the Isis Scrub, but when you be nferred to a select committee. This is a get there there is 20,000 acres of splendid land. portion of a main line. Mr. FISHER : It was settled before the line Mr. PowERS : You cannot get past the monn· was built. tain. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Not The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: You to any extent. And that line did not pay when can go round. it was built. Mr. PoWERS : But you are in a pocket. Where Mr. PowERS: Not even although there was are you going to take the line to ? already settlement there. The SECRBTARY FOR RAILWAYS: If The SECRETARY FOil HAlLWAYS: It only one-tenth of the 100,000 acres owned by the takes some time to settle agricultural lands, Gm'ernment within 15 miles of the terminus especi>1lly sugar lands. I am credibly informed are sold, the line will pay extremely well. I that within 15 miles of lhe proposed terminus know the whole of the leased part of Hamilton of this line the Crown still own 100,000 acres of run is falling in shortly, and the whole of it land-some of it good land. a:Iy experience of will be thrown open for selection. Numerous this country is that we do not find mountainii applicatiom have already been made for the with precipitolls sides. Thev g as to knowing anything about the line, I am scrub and good sugar land. W. H. Wilson has perfectly innocent. If the country wants the 1,280 acres on Cattle Creek; 200 acres fit for land, I am perfectly willing that it should have sugar; improvements, partly fenced and horse it for what it has cost me. paddock. J. N. Brennan has 160 acres, of Mr. BROWNE : I intend to support the which 25 are fit for sugar; improvements, a motion of the hon. member for Maryborough, six-roomed house with fruit and vegetable because I have said I would support all motions garden. H. Zahmel has 500 acres, of which for select committees on rail ways until we could a quarter is fit for sugar, 30 acres cultivated get some more satisfactory information. Only one with potatoes and corn. Mr. Ready has line hru; been referred to a select committee, and I 640 acre•, 300 of which are first-class sugar have therefore taken the trouble to fossick out land ; a! together there should be 500 acres what information I could in reference to the fit for cultivation. It is now being fenced in, others. I do not think it would be well for the and dwelling-houses started. Norris Brothers country if all hon. member' knew as little about have 1,280 acres, about half of which is fit for proposed lines as the hon. member who has just cultivation. 'l'hey are planting a small area of spoken, who confesses that he did not know cane, and have about forty cows being milked. that the line passed near his own property. I They also have another freehold of 300 acres, a have studied the maps produced by the leader fair quantity of which is fit for sugar. There are of the Opposition, and have also read the the usual improvements, and about 20 acres are latest geological information about the district fenced in. M. Ready has 1,280 acres with that is available. I think it well when discuss 1,); miles frontage to Cattle Creek ; 15 acres ing proposed railways that we should know cleared, and 600 ringbarked ; 40 acres cultivated something of the geology of the districts through and leased to Chinamen at £1 per acre. Dr. which they past. The geologist, Mr. Maitland, McBurney has 1,280 acres fenced in, and divided in one paragraph, says- into two paddocks; a fair quantity of good sugar " The coastal region may generally be described as land. W. Matthews has 320 acres, most alluvial flat, which rises to no great elevation above the of which is fit for cultivation, and about level of the sea. To the south of the Pioneer the plain 200 acres of good. sugar land ; 20 acres have is very extensive, but on the north side the country is been cultivated, and rented to Chinamen. much more rugged and broken, with many large and That seems to be about the extent of the cultiva some important watercourses.'' tion. So far as I can see, there is not nearly He also mentions that there is a range of moun 150 acres under crop altogether in the whole t The hon. member ha.~ read, apparently with great produce 15 miles across a creek that is sometimes pleasure, the lamentable fact that some culti va· up for weeks, and across a river that is sometimes tion that was estn,blished has been abandoned in up for months. What has kept the district a portion of the Mackay district. That is true ; back is the fact that, in addition to the but he will find evidence in that pamphlet con distance from the market for produce, there trary to the contention he set out '>It h. He will are two large watercourses to be passed. To see, if he believes what is in that }_)amphlet the south there are 3, 4, or 5 miles of good and if he dors not why did he read It-that there country, and to the north an equal expanse is a very great deal of fertile land there; that of good country. The hon. member brought houses were erected and attempts made at us a geological map. He may know something cultivatiOn, which were generally abandoned. about geology or he may not. I have known And what does he conclude? That because granite country intersected with basalt. If you persons have attempted to make a living out go to Cairns, which is not remarkable as a place of decent ground, and have been prevented where nothing will grow, you will find the hills from doing so through the want of means of covered with verdure, though the backbone of communication with the port, they shall not have the country is granite; and if you take the rang-e any~ That is his argument. I can tell him that to which the hon. member has referred, though a if there had been any such communication, the portion of it is barren granite, probably there is cultivation he has referred to would have been basalt there too. The greater portion of the extended ; that hP would not have found a want range is not barren granite ; it is covered from of population there, but a large and thriving top to bottom with jungle, and there is certainly district. With regard to tbe motion, I bave no valuable soil there. Because the hon. member disposition to shirk any inquiry into the railway. saw it marked granite on a geological map he If it is not a good rail way I should be sorry that assumed that the soil is infertile. Now as to this it should be built ; but I should like a motion of scandalous job which the hon. member says is this sort to proceed at any rate from somebody proposed-- who was disinterested. \Vhat have we found in Mr. POWERS: No. connection with tbis railway business? Four The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN railways have gone through, and one has been STRUCTION: The hon. member says this referred to a committee. The hon. members looks "fishy." who moved for select committees did so openly Mr. PoWERS : No, J did not. in order to shelve the projects. Mr. GROOM: He did not say so. Mr. PowERS: I did not. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN· The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN STRUCTION: If anybody here failed to come STRUCTION: The hon. member for Port to that conclusion from the hon. member's Cnrtis openly moved the reference of the Broad remarks, his head must be stuffed with sawdust. mount railway to a select committee because he It was impossible to come to any other conclu admitted he did not believe in it, and wanted a sion. He pointed out what the whole length of railway that would come nearer to his own port. the line would be, that it would go through The hon. member for Rockhampton, Mr. Archer, barren rubbishy inferior .country, and that at .the moved that the Hnghenden-Winton railway end there was a pocket, and that :Mrs. Macrossan, should be referred to a select committee. Wby? the hon. member for Balonne, and myself owned \Vas it because he was friendly to it, in favour that pocket. That is what the hon. member con of it, or disinterested? No, he was an enemy, cluded was the reason for this line. Let the hon. and bitterly hostile, as all the Central members member paint the job as black as he can ; the are, to that project ; he desired to get that rail blacker it is the worse it will be for him. Six way referred to a select committee in order that years ago the hon. member was a member of a it might be shelved. Ministry, of which the hon. member for Balonne Mr. REm: You have agreed to shelve your was Premier, and in the "unspecified railways' own railway. · which that Ministry hrought in there was one for The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN a railway across the Pioneer. STRUCTION: The hon. member for Toowong, Mr. PowERS : Yes, 3 miles. Y on get into even if he represents a cemetery, is anything good country then. but dead in this House. The hon. member for The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN Maryborough, with whom I propose to deal STRUCTION: Yes, for 3 miles. A bridge was despite the interjections of the hon. member for a part of that undertaking, and £17,000 was to Toowong, came here with a map published in be absorbed by the bridge. 1889-an ancient map ; why he brought it up I Mr. POWERS : It did not go into this pocket. do not know. I should have preferred that he The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN brought us something up to date, a map for 1894 STRUCTION: The 3 miles were supposed to or 1895. cost the same as this line, £3,000 a mile, and to Mr. PowERS : I would if I could. end in this infamous country the hon. member The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN has made so much of. STRUCTION : From his map the hon. member Mr. PowERS : No. tried to prove conclusively that the scheme was The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN an improper scheme. There was only a little STRUCTION: What justification could the ·"pocket," as he called it, and he proceeded to hon. member have had for that deplorable job? mark off at great length "poplar,"" blood wood," We heard nothing about a select committee upon "sandy soil," "tea-tree," and so on until one those railways. 'fhey were so highly beneficial would have thought the line was 50 miles long. to the colony that the hon. member fought Mr. POWERS : I read what I found on the plan. against stonewallers, and was deprived of his The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN rest here night after night in his efforts to get STRUCTION: Yet it is only 9 miles and a this rail way through and others that were pro few chains in length. Then he got to the pocket, bably no better. which, from his description of it, one would think An HONOURABLE MEMBER : :For ten days. was a bower bird's nest, when as a matter of fact The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN there are 15 miles of uncommonly good country STRUCTION: Yes; for ten days the hon. beyond the terminus of the railway. A lot of member tried to get infamous jobs of this sort people have worked it. I know an industrious through, and I would ask him to consult his man who stuck to it for years, growing maize, conscience when he goes out of this House to and he has had to give it up for the simple night, and see if he can reconcile that with his reason that he could not afford to bring his action to-night. 1366 Mimni to Cattle [ASSEMBLY.] Creek Railway. Mr. PoWERS: I can. That was only for 3 like. There are 500 or 600 people employed there miles. directly and indirectly, and a number of farmers The SECRgTARY FOR PUBLIC IN are settled in the vicinity. For their cane they STRUCTION: Three miles of precisely the get access to the Homebush mill by tramways. same line as this. The only difference between The settler. are connected with that mill by the two is that this line goes for 9 mile' instead tramwa,yo 14 miles long, which run from of 3, and gets over the had coon try and on to the the Homebush mill to within 4 miles of the good. :Far more good land will be served by l\1ackay Railway. The reason why you cannot that than is served by the l\Iackay line at pre grow cane in the other place is because there is sent. That is quite certain; and if the hon. no mill, or any means of getting to a mill. I am member thought it was desirable to make a rail exceedingly anxious, and have endeavoured, so way across that river six or seven years ago, far a3 my position as a private member is con when there was nothing like the same induce cerned, to get the Minister to take into favourable ments as at present exist, I do not know why he consideration the construction of a line to Sandy should be so suspicious about his own line now. Creek. I quite admit that it is advisable that a Anyone who has been there will know that the railway should be made there, but because a railway goes through 23 miles of fairly flat land rail way should be made there and is not, until it comes to a big river. I have seen that is no reason why a railway which has been river uncrossable on horseback for three months. proposed by the Government-which will Could anything be more preposterous than to open up a great dea,l of good country, and bring a railway to an uncrossable river, and which will do precisely that which hon. leave 25 miles of good country beyond untapped, m em hers opposite before elections in variably and then complain that the railway does not state is their anxiety to bring about, that is, pay? The bridge would have been included in settle a farminJ population-I say that is no the line when it was first built had not the reason why bon. members should oppose this gentleman in charge of the scheme considered raihvay. I am sorry that I have had to speak at that it was not advisable to add to the appa such length, but the hon. member for Mary rent cost of the work by £17,000 or £20,000; but borongh and the hon. member for Croydon he supposed that when the line was built to the really compelled me to give to the House some river pressure of circumstances would compel information which I venture to think it required, anyone who was responsible for the parnings and what I have said is from personal knowledge. of the line to take it across the river. That There is one implication in the speech of the hon. bridge will not only be an advantage to the land member for ::Ylaryborough which I shall allude to, in the vicinity, but to country extending for because it may be made again. l\ly name appears some miles further on. I only oppose this on the map. I admit that I have some ground motion to refer the planr; of the railway to a ther,c, that I have bought other people out, and select committee because it is brought forward in got some freehold land in the vicinity. But the an exceedingly unfriendly spirit. I do not say mere fact that I have some freehold there is not that inquiry should not take place. Whether sufficient justification for shutting out good land the plans are now relegated to a committee, or from the public, most of which is owned by the not, their adoption this evening is only one of a Government. The hnn. member mentioned number of requirements which will have to be Mount Dalrymple, as if tu imply that because it satisfied ; they will have to be referred to a select bears my identical name it belongs to me; but I committee when they go to the Upper House. may tell him that I have no property in it. You After they have been approved by Parliament, might go as far as New Guinea and find mountains we 8hall have to consider the mode of obtaining and rivers bearing the name of Dalrymple; but the money for the rail way, and there will then be I wash my hands of all these Dalrymple moun a discussion, and possibly a vote on the que8tion. tains and rivers. They arA not called after me, Therefore to seek to make people believe that and I am not in any way responsible for the this railway, which the hon. member was so circumstance that a gentleman named Dalrymple much in favour of some yPare ago, has become so happened to be an explorer and discover much dangerous to the boay politic that it should be new country. referred to a select committee is a mere figment ::VIr. GROO:JYI: The hon. gentleman has given of the imagination. If the plans were not to the House more information in regard to this go under some examination there might be some line than is contained in the Commissioner's thing in the contention, but the hon. m em her report. Had the information been before ns knows that that examination necessarily must earlier, it is possible that some hon. members take place, and when the hon. member brings might have formed a different conclusion in forward such a motion on this particular regard to the construction of this line. \Vhat I occasion I can only regard it as partaking of complain of is that the Commissioner's reports on exactly the same character as similar resolutions ra,ilways are always of the most meagre and which have been brought forward in connection unsatisfactory nature. An hon. member put the with previous railways. In every case they have question with regard to a previous line in a nut been brought forward by members who are the shell, when he said that it was proposed to build determined enemies of the rail ways. I believe a public railway to private wharves, but the state that the construction of this ten miles of ment brought forth no reply from the Minister. railway will annex to the present railway as I ha ne had the privilege of twice visiting Mackay. much sugar country as we have already within On the last occasion I was one of the parlia the vicinity of the existing line, and that it will mentary party, and I went for the purpo;e of cause a large amount of settlement ; how much I acquiring information, so that I might be able to do not know. There is one matter which has come to a right conclusion on public questions been alluded to by the hon. member for Croydon, submitted to us. I had not the privilege of going on which the hon. member showed a want of on the side of the river where this railway is to k_nowledge, a!ld that is the Sandy Creek exten be constructed. I do not know why. At all swn. He pomted out that in one place there events, I was shunted along with three or four was no settlement. I have already shown why nthers to the other side of the river. The con there is no settlement; that settlement wa.; clusion I arrived at was that there are two attempted, but afterwards abandoned. But in riral parties in Mackay-there are two sets of the vicinity of Sandy Creek there is settle auctioneer", each of whom runs a paper. Each ment, because the capita.list has gone there, wanted the parliamentary party to go to the side and the capitalist has built an enormous of the river on which its interest lies. From mill, exactly what hon. members opposite do not what we saw we were able to come to a very fah Mirani to Cattle [22 0CTOBEn.] Oreelc Railway. 1367 conclusion with regard to the little syndicate further 22 miles over very swampy country. arrangements going on in that district. I have The hon. gentleman says that if we take this had considerable experience of people settling on rail way further we will reach good country, but land once the property of the Crown, and trans no evidence is produced to show us that such ferred from the Crown to the selector, but I have will be the case. I would draw attention to the not much sympathy with what I may call the fact that the expenditure on the Mackay rail "syndicate selection," which I saw going on in way, a distance of only 31 miles, has been the Mackay district. I came to the conclusion £190,464, and during last year the general that that kind of selection is only as yet in its revenue had to bear interest to the extent of initial stage. The land on the side of the river £3,194. which I visited is held under a three-years' The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: What about lease. I do not know whether the same rule the Crow's Nest line ? holds good with the land through which this line Mr. GROOM: We will talk about that will pass. another time. We are talking of this Mackay The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: No. extension now. \V e are asked to spend a Mr. GROOM: I am glad to hear that. The further £56,000 on it, £17,000 of which is for a land is valued by the owners, and the selectors bridge. There are already two bridges over the are paying !5 per cent. on the valuation. At the Pioneer, one erected at the cost of the conntry end of three years the selectors pay £1 an acre and the other by the divisional board, so that in principal and interest for the land, supposing that respect there is no cause for cnmplaint. \Ve they are in a position to continue on the land. have been given to understand that we are not The opinion I came to was that if any railway now entering upon the construction of political was proposed for that district we should first rail ways ; that every line has to be considered satisfy ourselves that the syndicate selections upon its merits. If that is so, then I say that a are likely to be a perfect success, and to ulti stronger case for the construction of this line ought mately pass into the hands of the selectors. to be made out. There are agricultural settle At Plane Creek I found a number of men ments in various parts of the country, both north who are not afraid of hard work or of facing and south, where the selectors have got far more the d:mgers of pioneering in order to establish difficulties to contend against than they have in homes for themselves; and if a railway is the Mackay district. Look at the district of to be constructed in that district at all, it cer Lockyer, where the unfortunate farmers have tainly should go in the direction of Plane been driven into the ranges, and where they have Creek. I went so far as to tell some of the to cart their potatoes down the sides of ranges in selectors that I should be inclined to give any order to get to the rail way station ; and yet proposal to construct a line there a considerable there is no proposal to give a rail way to them. amount of support, and I say so now. I believe I say we have a right to inquire, when sanction those men will make that part of the country a ing rail ways, how far the proposals made are perfect success. I was very much surprised based on an equitable system. It was only this when I read the following paragraph in the very day I read a letter in the Tdegraph coming Courier of Friday last :- from Mackay, which gives a somewhat different HA meeting, representing the Municipal Council, the account of affairs there than that which has been Divisional Board, and the farmers in the vicinity of given to us. This is the letter- Sandy Creek, haB been held, and received a proposition The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : It from Mr. Cbataway, suggesting that if they took pre liminary steps towards giving a guarantee under the is not true. Railways Guarantee Act for the construction of the Yir, GROOM: \Vel!, I intend to read it, and Sandy Creek railway, the 3iinister might probably let people judge. [The hon. member here read get the pla~s adopted by the House during the a letter signed "Farmer," dated Mackay, 14th present sesswn; but if no steps in this direc October, to the effect that the statement that tion were now taken it might be another year anyone with a capital of from £300 to £500 was before the plans could be adopted. The matter was fully sure of success if he invested in thP Mackay discussed, and the mneti.ng unanimously objected to initiating guarantee arrangements which would 1norally district, was erroneous and misleading; that bind them. A resolution was finally carried to the nearly all the su(l"ar lands were let to "cookies;" effect that the members for :11ackay should use their that land was cned up and assessed at abnormal utmost endeavour to get the Sandy Creek line con values by interested parties; that although men structed, without any guarantee, as soon as possible." might get 14s. a ton for cane, the cost of produc The conclusion I have come to is, that in no part tion was so great that these unfortunates were all of the Mackay district is a railway more required but bankrupt-unable to pay even their ration than in the neighbourhood of Sandy and Plane bills, and that before long there would be a Creeks: There is a great opening there for the wholesale clearing out.] sugar mdustry, because it is virgin land, which 'I'he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : has not been overworked, as a considerable portion "Farmer" might be anybody. of the Mackay land has been. This line does Mr. GROOM : I do not think in these hard not appear to have the advantages which the line times people troUt>le much about writing letters I suggest would have. I do not travel with my to the papers unless they have something to eyes shut, and I have no hesitation in saying that write about, and I say that letter bears the the extravagant expenditure of money in some impress of truth. parts of the Northern district is really astonish The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : ing. The hon. gentleman spoke just now about Did you write it? taking a rail way to a river and not putting a Mr. GROOM: No I did not. I have some bridge to the other side. We have lament thing else to do than write letters to the papers, a~J!e <;vidence of what may be done in that and it is unworthy nf the hon. gent.leman to d1rect10n. Take the Cooktown railway. That make such an insinuation. I have never yet line was first taken to the banks of the Laura. resorted to such a disgraceful subterfuge as to Then it was said that if a bridge were put write a letter to a paper and then stand up here ov!"r the Lau.ra the railway would pay. The and read it. I have no doubt there is a great deal bndge was bmlt, and we had the opportunity of of truth in that letter, because I say from personal going into the bed of the river and looking up observation that the sugar industry at Mackay, and seeing its dimensions. But there was no as far as cultivation by small men is concerned, evidence of any traffic on the other side ; we is in it-, initial stage. I earnestly hope that it were told that 0nly the trial engine had ever may be a succes•, because some most excellent gone over it, and that before the railway could men from my district have gone there, and if be of any use it would have to be taken a anyone can make it a success they will by hard 1368 Mirani to Cattle [ASSEMBLY.] Creek Railwd!J. work and persistency, but being in its initial member for Marybomugh brought forward stage, we should hesitate before we spend several reason~ why it would not pay the country another £56,000 on railway communication in to build this line noiV, and he showed from that district. I shall vote for the amendment the official maps that the country was not as in the hope that we shall be able to get further fertile or extensive as to justify the expen information, such as will enable us to arrive at a diture of this money. The Secretary for Public better conclusion than we possibly c:1n do with In,truction, in reply, objected that this geo the present information before us. logicttl map is an old one, but it was the Mr. DAWSON: The question i~ whether we duty of the hon. member to produce another shall have a select committee before passing the one, if ho is not satisfied with the one pro plans of this railway. In this instance a better duced, and shoiV that it is wrong. :Even case has been made out for a select committee if this is an old map, we have yet to learn that than in the case of any other railway that hao ~he mountains which are an obstruction to this come before us. I have always expressed the line have been removed. Th~re is very little opinion that under certain circumstances a select land on either side of this line. There are moun committee is justifiable. It is justifiable when tains all round and a syndicate within, and some hon. members are satisfied that a rail therefore it will not pay the country to build a way should not be constructed along a pro line there. The hon. members for Crovdon and posed route, and they think that if a select ~Iary borough have brought forward testimony to committee were appointed they would be shoiV the qualitv of the soil, which is very able to bring evidence to show that their poor indeed. Oulti vation has reached such a contention ig correct. This is such a case. low state that the largest amount attempted The Secretary for Public Instruction is spe to be cultivated in the district is about six cially interested in this matter, and from his acres, and one man had only one-eighth of an long residence in the district he i• able to acre under cane. "\V e are asked to assist speak with some knowledge, being well acquainted settlers to get their produce to market, and when with the country along which this line will pasb. we come to inquire into that produce we find It struck me that, although the hon. gentleman that there were a few acres under cane once, but made a good defence against the charges brought not now. One man has 100 head of cattle, by the leader of the Opposition, he did not make another has 20 head, and another has fenced his out a very good case for the line, and that is land, but that is not the kind of settlement we very strong evidence that we require more can afford to build railways fur. I£ there is in the information than we possess at present. Another district better country and better settlement, we strong reason for this select committee is that should get evidence on those matters before we there are two routes-one into this valley at spend money. The statement that we will be Cattle Creek, and another to Sandy Creek. able to discuss this line on other stages before The SECRETARY ~'OR RAILWAYS: They are it is finally passed, seems at first sight to be different lines altogether. a le!{itimate objection to the select committee Mr. DAWSON: The proposal is to supply the But if we pass these plans tu-night, and afterwards people of Mackay with railway communication, throw the line out, we will be practically and with facilities for growing that particular stultifying ourselves, turning a complete somer crop which makes Mackay what it is, and we are sault; and we have no busine·ss to do anything here to decide which particular line we will that will place us in such a position. If we feel build. now that there is not sufficient justification for The SPEAKER : The hon. member is mis the line, and that with the assistance of a select taken. The question before the House is the committee we can prove that it should not he appointment of a select committee. constructed, we should not pass the plans to night, notwithstanding the fact that there may Mr. DAWSON: I submit that in supporting be a dozen other opportunities for discussing the this amendment we are at liber~y tu show that question before the matter is finally dealt with. this route is not the right one, and that another It is a significant fact that two responsible route is better. members, the hon. member for Mackay and the The SPEAKER : The hon. member is wrong. Secretary for Railway9, should have risen to He must confine himself simply to the question defend this rail way, and that neither of them before the House, and that is the appuintment should refer to the strongest objection urged of a select committee to consider this particular line. ' against it by the hon. member for Croydon and the leader of the Opposition. That is to be Mr. DAWSON: Am I not at liberty to urge found in the Commissioner's teport, in which, reasons why the select committee should be meagre as it is, he states that even after the line appointed? I understood that that was one of is constructed it will not pay. "\Ve have gone the things the select committee was to be ap past the days when it should be possible to pass pointed for. The point I wish to urge is that a railway which we know beforehand will not there are two rival lines, and the question is pay. The Commissioner, in the last paragraph which is to be constructed. of his report, practically says that if we construct The SPEAKER : The hon. member is wrong· the line, and if settlement takes place, and if This is not a question of rival lines. The certain things most suitable to the soil are question is whether this line, which is proposed cultivated, then the railway may pay. Under by the Government, shall be referred to a select the most favourable circumstances which the committee or not. Commissioner eau imagine the line may possibly Mr. DAWSON: As you rule me out of order pay, and, as I read that paragraph, under I will leave that subject. The Secretary for any other circumstances there is no po•.sibility of Public Instruction gave as a reason against this the line paying. I submit that that is the committee that the hon. member for Maryborough strongest evidence broug-ht against the line to did not move his motion in the same spirit as night ; and when tiVO hon. members charged other hon. members who had moved motions of a with the duty of showing the necessity for the similar character. construction of this line do not touch upon it, I The SECRETARY ~'OR PUBLIC INSTRUO'riON : I presume it is because they have no reply to it. said it was prompted by hostility in p,ach case. The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION : I Mr. DAWSON : ·when the select committee was speaking to the amendment. in regard to the Winton line was being dis Mr. DA \VSON: That affects the amendment. cussed, it was said the motion wa> moved for There is a strong conflict amongst hon. members the purpose of shelving the line. The hon. as to whether this line should be made or not, Mirani to Cattle [22., OcTOBER.] Oreelc Railway. 1369 and as to whether it will pay, and that is but Mr. CALLAN : The returns of the Com another reason why I intend to support this missioner show that the Central Railway has lost amendment. nothing at all. However, the Mackay line is Mr. BATTERSBY: I am sorry the hon. losing £1 9s. 8d. per cent. per annum, and now it member for Toowoomba has left the House. I is proposed to extend the line for a further was one of those who went from Mirani to Cattle distance of 9 miles at a cost of £56,000. I Creek, and I have been looking round the shall oppose any railway brought forward where Chamber to see if there was any other member it is not proved that it will pay, no matter where present who went there. The statement made that railway goes. At r,resenl, the colony is by the hon. member for Toowoomba that he was losing £240,000 per annum on railways which shunted in Mackay is not becoming to the hem. were constructed before the Commissioner occu member, because he knows as well as I do that pied his present p select committee. We all know that he is the neighbourhood of the terminus of this line. I Government" whip," and h~s to do so whether know that the country about Stanthorpe 1s he likes it or not. granite, and it is now recognised as the finest The SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. member fruit·growing district in the colony. I know of must withdraw the statement. my own knowledge that on poor granite sandy Mr. McDO:N'ALD: Certainly I will withdraw country at Tenterfield forty bushels of wheat it, but we know that the hon. member is the have been grown to the acre; so that the fact Government "whip." that these is a granite formation at the terminus The SPEAKER: Order ! of the propused railway is not in any way adverse Mr. McDONALD: The hon. member is the to the construction of this line. With regard to Government "whip," and we'know that the the probability of this extension paying, it Government "whip" receives a certain amount appear8 from the Commissioner's report that the of remuneration. existing line last year paid the gross sum of The SP:gAKER: Order ! The hon. member £355 per mile. It is reasonable to expect that is now, by inference, repeating what he has the extension will pay as much per mile, so that already withdrawn. the return on the 10 miles would be £3,550. The Mr. McDON ALD : Well, that is a fact. interest on thecoRt of construction, at 4 per cent., Mr. SMITH : How do you know it is a fact? would amount to £2,240, leaving a credit balance, Mr. McDONALD: I do not think that the as between interest and gross earnings, of £1,:no. hon. member kn<>ws what I am going to say. As The average cost of maintenance of the I have to withdraw the statement unreservedly, Mackay Railway last year was £!73 5s. 3d., so I shall do so, but I shall have my own opinion that, if this 10 miles of railway costs a little over about it. If I cannot express it in this House £73 per mile to maintain, the cost will be £730 per baps I may do so elsewhere. This line is per annum,. which would leave a credit balance nothing more or less than a huge political job, of £600. But even assuming that the average and the Government are a party to it. working expenses on this extension were equal The PREMIEI\ : You can say anything you like to the average working expenses on the existing about the Government. line, which comes to a little less than 60 per Mr. MoD ON ALD : I cannot say anything too cent. of the gross earnings, then the position will bad about them, because, in a political sense, be this : 60 per cent. of £3,550, the probable they could not get any lower than they are at gross earnings, will come to £2,130, and present. \Ve had a Minister getting up this deducting from that the difference between evening aftPr this motion of the hon. member for the gross earnings and the interest at 4 per ::Yiaryborough was moved, and denying certain cent.-that is, £1,310-you arrive at a loss statements in a most indignant manner. It was of only £820 for a year's work. I do not even evident that the cap fitted him very well, and think that from that point of view this is a wrong seeing that, there was no need for him to be so line to construct. I am also informed that the indignant. leased part of Hamilton run, towards which The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Abuse is not this extension goes, expires this year, and there argument. is no doubt whatever that the country will be Mr. McDO"i\ALD: The Commissioner says thown open. I have not the slightest hesita in the last paragraph of his report that the line tion in voting for the proposal, and I think it will not pay after it is constructed. After the would only be a waste of time to submit the country has had to bear an annual loss on the line plans to a select committee, considering that by for ten or fifteen years, the railway may not even the Standing Orders of the other House the line then pay. Hon. members on the other side have will have to be submitted to a committee of that not cleared away the charge that the line is to Chamber. Under all the circumstances I am not be constructed purely in the interests of certain disposed to support the motion moved by the individuals. If I am wrong in holding that leader of the Opposition. opinion, it is posoible that a select committee Mr. FISHER: If the hon. member looks at might be able to get evidence which would show the last paragraph of the Commissioner's report me that I am wrong. I say there appears to be he will see that his remarks do not coincide with a huge political job contemplated to keep certain the Commissioner's. The hon. gentleman argues members on the other side quiet, and to induce that the extension would probably bring in the them to continue to support the Government. same rate per mile as the existing line, but The fullest inquiry should be made as to the the Commissioner holds out no such hope. truth of this belief. If the Government refuse He only says that the tra:!Fc will ultimately the select committee, it will only 140 to strengthen materially assist in bringing up the whole my opinion that the political job is so great that earnings of the Mackay Railway to 4 per cent. the Government are afraid to let the light of day There is no part of the country where rail into it. ways have paid worse than in the Mackay dis 1fr. PHILLIPS : Anyone looking at the plans trict. It is only during the last two years that on the table can see that the prnposed extension the Mackay Railway has begun to pay, and is in a direct line with the existing railway. I immediately it returns a little ou its cost it is have known the Mackay district during the last proposed to extend it. The hon. member for thirty years, and the hon. member for Mary Balonne has said that he would be quite willing borough, in trying to prove that "devil devil" to sell his 13nd to the Governmet t for what it country is no good, is labouring under a mistake. cost him, but that I think is rather an argument :From my peroonal knowledge of the district I against the line. If property is so unprofitable can state that the greater part of the land under that it does not pay to use it, then it will not pay sugar in the district was originally open forest to extend a railway towards it. and "devil devil" country. The same thing The Hon. B. D. MoREHEAD : I merely applies on the Herbert River, which you, Mr. replied to an attack made from the other side of Speaker, represent. I have worked on that river the House, attributing to me motives for support for snme years, and I know that the country on ing this railway. the s<,uth side of the river is "devil devil" Mr. FISHJ£R : The senior member for Mac country and open plain. Also between Bowen kay said that a large number of ~eople where and Mackay nearly all the land, especially about this railway will go have left that district the Proserpine, where a great deal of sugar land because they could not get along without railway is now being taken up, is "devil devil" coun communication. If that is a good argument, try. Some capital has been made out of the then it only requires a syndicate to take up land fact that there is a granite mountain in the and put a few competent farmers upon it in Mirani to Cattle [22 OcTOBER.] Creek Railway. 1371 order to secure a railway. I am prepared to indeed, and be advises people against embarking vote for any railway after the people have shown in that industry. Of course, as long as it is by their industry and perseverance that they are profitable, we must do all we possibly can to worthy of assistance, but when we have it on encourage it ; but we must not use the public good authority that a district is practically funds to bolster up an industry for selfish ends. deserted, and the land held by large holders and The experience of the last twelve months shows Chinamen, we should hesitate before constructing that encouragement of the kind proposed by this a railway. I would like to say in regard to the line is very costly, and the country will not accusation of the member for Mackay, that the agree to it. I think this committee will obtain leaier of the Opposition opposed the line on information that cannot be obtained otherwise, account of it being proposed by him, that I hope and I hope the House will grant it. if the hon. gentleman is antagonistic to a line he Mr. DUNSFORD: In June last I visited is so for a purpose ; he believes it to be necessary Mirani, and met a number of these Cattle Creek for it to go to a select committee in order to settlers. Their complaint was that they could elicit facts so that the State may be duly pro not reach Mackay, owing to their being on the tected. I hold that he would be neglecting his western side of the river, and they had no mill. duty if, believing that further inquiry should be I think that if a plebiscite of these small land made, he did not make an effort to have the owners were taken, they would not be so much question referred to a select committee. If that in favour of a railway as a bridge across the had been done in the p:1,st, there would have been river and sugar works. Then they would have less taxation upon the people of the colony to all they desire. There is a large quantity of very make up the deficiency, and I trust hon. members good land there, and I think that ultimately it will look upon it in that light. will be a very thriving district. The residents Mr. CROSS : A leading newspaper of to-day, did try to procure a mill under the Sugar ·works speaking in regard to this matter, said the leader Guarantee Act. In spite of what the Secretary of the Opposition was simply discharging his for Rail ways has said, that it matters not who are duty in ascertaining whether the proposals of the owners of the land in any district, it matters a the Government are justifiable or not. That great deal, because the failure to bring that mill hon. gentleman, representing this side of the to a successful issue was owing to the fact that House, is discharging a public duty, and mani many of the large landed proprietors in the festing a sense of the responsibility which he district would not join. One or two did, at the ought. Under all circumstances it is the duty initiatory stage, take a hand in it, and promised of every hon. member to place as many checks to make over their land as a guarantee. upon public expenditure as posoible. Hon. mem The SPEAKER: I must request the hon. bers of the other Chamber are responsible to member to confine his observations to the ques nobody; their sole object is to look after their tion before the House, which has nothing to do own interests ; but hon. members of this House with the establishment of central sugar mills. are responsible to the country, and in view Mr. DUJ'\SFORD : I am giving reasons for of the very suggestive circumstances under the further consideration of this rail way. which these public works are being brought The SPEAKER: The hon. member was enter forward, the country demands that, at all ing into the history of a proposed central sugar events, one section of the House shall rise mill, which is certainly beside the question. above any suspicion of bribery or corruption, Mr. DUNSFORD : I am trying to show that and try to ascertain what are the pros and inasmuch as the land there is held by land cons of each proposal. The pamphlet quoted by speculators, it is not to the interest of the resi the hon. member for Croydon proves that the dents or of the country as a whole to have a rail land through which this line passes is not desir way there. I believe the fact that that land is able for settlement; than very few people have held in cowparativelylargeareas will prevent the taken it up, certainly not sufficient to justify us railway being carried on successfully; but as you in spending £56,000 on this railway. Expressions have ruled me out of order I will not pursue the of opinion outside will confirm many suggestions subject further. If the railway is built it that have come from this side of the House that will have the effect more of booming the land there are some very suspicious circumstances in held by the large owners than of doing good connection with this line, and those circum to the small owners in the district. To give stances should be fully inquired into. We know those men the bridge would be of more benefit that in the past Parliaments have been charged to the latter than the erection of a railway which with corruption, and certain sections have con will not pay for a number of years. A large per nived at the expenditure of public money for the centage of the present owners are holding the benefit of land of which they were the owners. land for speculative purposes, and rely more The plans before the House indicate that the upon getting an increased price for it than upon land through which this line passes is syudi cultivating the land themselves. Although up cate land, and I can understand that the to the present I have voted against these com people of Sandy Creek are justified in expecting mittees, believing that each rail way should be a railway. We are told that this line leads decided upon its merits as it comes along, yet I abwlutely now here, and that it will l1.bsolutely shall vote for this committee, be.ca,nse I believe, depend upon the permanent profitableness of the for the reasons I have given, that the railway sugar industry ; but there is sufficient evidence should not be built at the present time. before us to show that there is very grave doubt Mr. RA WLINGS: Of all the railway pro as to the permanency of that industry. The posals that have been brought before the House Secretary for Rail ways has taken a deep interest this is the only one in connection with which we in this industry. His opinions are worth listen have heard the Government accused of jobbery ing to, and I am sure that he will agree with me and corruption. I do not say I believe there is that, so far as that industry is concerned, as soon any jobbery about it, and I do not believe in as the Australian demand is met its progrec;s will select committees as a rule; but I shall vote for come to an end. There has been a tremendous the select committee in this case, because I do fall in sugar lately, and taking up sugar land will not think it is right to ignore the accusation that be a doubtful speculation. There is a letter in has been made. It is quite possible that the to-day's Telegraph from a farmer whose opinions report of the committee will exonerate the are worth listening to, and who has evidently Government from all shadow of jobbery. been a victim. He states that land is going out Mr. TURLEY : I, too, have hitherto been of cultivation, and the profitableness of sugar opposed to select committees, but I am going to growing even in Mackay is very questionable vote for this one. Statements have been made 1372 Mirani to Cattle [ASSEM:t!LY.] Cree!c Railwci1J. to the House by the leader .of the Opposition and An HoNOURABLE MEMBER : That is nothing by the hon. member for Croydon which have not new. been attempted to be refuted by the other side The PREMIER: We are used to it. except in general terms. Some of the reasons Mr. TURLEY : It is backed up by the given for voting against the motion, especially evidence of the junior member for Mackay. that given by the hon. member for Bowen, are Very likely the Premier is used to it. I do not rather surprising. That hon. member said he know, because I have not been in the House should not vote for the select committee in this long ; but I do know that a !arge ;num?er. of case because the rail ways in the South had been people believe that in connect10n wtth s1m1lar passed without reference to a select committee, works there was a considerable amount of that conveniently forgetting that' he himself had before members on this side came into the Honse. voted for the reference of the Hughenden to I think it is the duty of the Government to Win ton railwn,y to a select committee. The only accept the motion of the leader of the Opposition mrmber on the other side who has made a speech if it is only to show members of the House and on the question represents the district of Mackay, the public outside that everything is at least and what has he told us? That there is a con clean in connection with this particular railway. siderable amount of land which can be brought I intend to vote for the motion. under cultivation in the event of this railway Question-That the words proposed to be being built; but the hon. member has con omitted stand part of the question-put ; and the veniently forgotten the fact that his own House divided :- colleague has published a pamphlet, the object An:s, 21. being to boom the sugar district of Mackay; but l\fessrs. Nelson. Barlow, Dalrymple, Philp, Stephens, he never attempted to answer anything brought Smyth, Jlfc)faster. Tooth, Watson, Annear, Midson, Petrie, Smith, Battersby, Crombie, Duffy, Corfteld, Allan, forward by the hon. member for Croydon, Phillips, Morehead, and Cameron. that a great deal of this land which we are NOES, 26. asked to believe is suitable for sugar culti Messrs. Groom, Cross, Uunsford, Reid, Kerr, Fisher, vation is practically worthless for that par JHcDonald, Dawson, King, Drake, Turley, Callan, Morgan, ticular kind of crop. Another argument was Hamilton, ''V. Thorn. Rawlings, Daniels, Jackson, Ogden, that the line was supported by the hon. Browne, Hardacre, Harding, Curtis, Powers, Boles, and member for Maryborough some years ago. Fogarty. But it does not seem to me that because an ad Resolved in the negative. mitted mistake was made on that occasion it The SPEAKER: The question now is "That should be repeated now. Besides there are a the words proposed to be inserted be so inserted." number of members who were not in the House I would remind the hon. member who proposed when the question came on, and they are justified the amendment that, according to our Standing in asking for more information on the subject. Orders, it is necessary to mention the number of The very fact that the Government have been members of which the committee shall consist, accused of almost openly sanctioning jobbery otherwise it will be impossible for members to should be sufficient to induce the Government to ballot. The Standing Order providing for the relegate this railway to a &elect committee. It election of members of a committee by ballot states is argued that there is plenty of good suga.r land that each member shall write down the nan1es along this line. The Commissioner, in his report, of the members whom he wishes to be appointed does not say so. He says that all the land along on the committee, "not exceeding the number the route is fit for nothing but grazing purposes. proposed, inclusive of the mover." I think the 'Ihat is in the Oommis,ioner's report, and in 2nd paragraph of the motion should be amended spite of that we have the hon. gentleman getting so as to read, "That such committee shall consist up and saying that he is satisfied that all the of seven members, and have power to send for land through which this railway is going to pass persons and papers, and to sit during any adjourn is fit for cultivation, in addition to a very large ment of the House, and shall be elected by area of good land which the line will tap. It ballot." seems to me that the Commissioner's report is Mr. POWERS: With the permission of the not believed in even by hon. members on the House, I will so amend the paragraph. other side of the House. The PREmER: That has all been replied to. The SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the Mr. TURLEY : There has been very little House that the motion be so amended? information given to this House in connection HoNOURABLE ME11BERS : Hear, hear ! with the Government railway proposals for hon. The SPEAKER: The question now is- members to reply to. If the Government are 1. That the plan, section, and book of reference of the prepared to bring down railway proposals in proposed railway extension from ){irani to Cattle volving an expenditure of £50,000 or £60,000, Creek be referred to a select committee of this House and think it enough to ,;ubmit them to the for its consideration and report. House with a bare report of about fifteen or 2. That such committee shall consist of seven mem~ twenty lines as sufficient information for hon. bers, and hHve power to ~end for persons and papers, and to sit during any adJOUrnment or the House, and members, and if when the question is brought shall be elected by ballot. forward we hear charges made that members of 1. That the House approves of the plan, section, and the Government are interested directly in the book of reference of the proposed railway extension question, it seems time that more information from 3!irani to Cattle Creek, in length 9 miles 73 should be asked for before hon. members are chains 50 links, as laid on the table of the House on Wednesday, 9th October, 1895. prepared to sanction the proposal. 2. That the plan, section, and book of reference be The PREMIER: You get up at 1-alf-past 10 to forwarded to the Legislative Council, for their approval, say what has been already said over and over by message in the usual form. again. The motion as it now stands is unintelligible and Mr. TURLEY : I am prepared to hear the contradictory. hon. gentleman talk for an hour afterwards, if he likes, but as a member of this House I claim Mr. POWERS: I move that the last two my right to speak on this subject as long as I paragraphs of the motion, as amended, be like. The charg£ is made against members of omitted. this House. The SPEAKER: The hon. member cannot An HoNOURABLE MEoiBER: Who made the propose that amendment now, as he has already charge? spoken. The hon. member should have moved, Mr. TURLEY : It was made two or three in the first instance, that all the words after times on this side. "That" be omitted. Salaries c!f Officers. [23 OCTOBER.) Civil Service, Etc., Bill. 1373 Mr. DRAKE : I move the omission of the last two paragraphs. Question put and passed. The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I do not suppose it is the intention of the leader of the Opposition to shelve the railway altogether, and I would suggest that a further amendment be moved to limit the time within which the committee must bring up their report. Mr. POWERS: I made the suggestion when I moved the amendment. Mr. STEPHENS : I move the addition of the following words :- That it be an order to the committee that they bring up their report not later than Tuesday next, the 29th instant. Amendment agreed to. Mr. BROWNE: Before the question is put, I would like to know when the ballot will take place? The SPEAKER: It will take place imme diately after the passing of the resolution, unless it is decided to leave it over until to-morrow. The PREMIER: I would suggest that it be left over until to-morrow. It will better suit the convenience of hon. meml•ers if it'is taken then, as there are several membPrs absent to-night. Will it be necessary to add that to the resolution? The SPEAKER: I do not think it is necessary to do that. If the House is of that opinion, I shall not order the ballot to be proceeded with until to-morrow. Question, as amended, put and passed. ·The House adjourned at eleven minutes past 11 o'clock.