I K N O W W H A T Miss Me,” in particular), the Eleva- overshadowed by the reputations bullshit”). Y O U T H I N K B U T tors used their influence to help of The Elevators, Red Krayola and In the thick of it all Mr. Kinney was secure a deal between IA and their Bubble Puppy. kind enough to give up some of his I T ’ S N O T T R U E brethren in The Golden Dawn, Disillusioned with their label and time and explain, for his part, what An Interview With George resulting in the group’s sole release, the Austin music scene in general, it all meant. The following interview Kinney of The Golden Dawn the 1968 LP Power Plant. Though The Golden Dawn broke up in 1970 took place in a back-corner booth at it had been completed for nearly a and George Kinney left Texas shortly landmark country bar The Broken n July of 2002, a handful of year, IA delayed the release of Power thereafter, only to return for health Spoke in Austin, Texas, early in the Texas musicians and enthusiasts Plant until after the Elevators second reasons in 1978. Since then he evening of August 1, 2002. I put together the first ever Texas full-length, Easter Everywhere, had has maintained a purposely-low Psych Fest, a two-day fund-raising hit shelves, not wanting The Golden profile, performing sporadically and So we’re five days beyond the affair inspired and sanctioned by Dawn to detract from their flagship rarely recording. The last few years, first show in, what 30 years? this very periodical that was held on act. This relegation to second-class however, have seen a comparative consecutive weekends in both Hous- status by the label predictably affected burst of output from the man: he With The Golden Dawn, yeah. ton and Austin, featuring much of the record’s reception, and the close recently released the CD After the the best expansive How do you music the state feel about the currently has to first one? offer: Charalam- bides, The I thought it was Dunlavy (their good, I thought first ever live we did okay. performance), We played some ST-37, Primor- songs I don’t dial Undermind, think too many Crevice, and people knew Linus Pauling about, there Quartet, to name were a couple of a few. The event’s chord changes final notes were where we didn’t sounded, how- all end at the ever, by a group same place, shit that had been like that. among the first That’s why and truest to we’re trying to strike them, back tighten it up for when many of this show tomor- the festival’s co- row (in Austin), participants were because all the but the tiny, mew- chord changes ling end results are so impor- of their parents’ tant. It’s that drunken and dramatic chord amorous anniver- change thing sary dinners. that we do that The Golden really helps our Dawn is not a overall sound. name that travels far outside the What to you orbit of the late defines the 1960s Texas rock “ d r a m a t i c scene and its c h o r d undisputed label change?” of record, Inter- national Artists; It’s like Rolling sadly enough, it’s Stones stuff, or Beatles stuff, a group that has affiliation between the two Austin Fall, his first available recording since and some of the Elevators stuff. too often received short shrift even groups led to the labeling of The Power Plant, and the publication Chord changes themselves set some- within that provincial history. Third Golden Dawn as a lesser, though of his first novel, The Bandit King, thing, they create a tone, this rhythm generation Austinite George Kinney, solid, imitation of the Elevators. is imminent. And, of course, The that’s really where it’s all at. Of the group’s singer and primary That critique has sadly not changed Golden Dawn is performing once course there’s the bass and drums, songwriter, had grown up alongside markedly with time; full of top-shelf again, to newly receptive audiences; th the rhythm section; but the chord 13 Floor Elevators singer Roky songwriting (“This Way Please” their Psych Fest sets were met with changes really set the pace for our Erickson; the friendship between is one of the finest moments in enthusiasm, and upon hearing that stuff. Whereas in straight blues, or the two extended to their bands, the IA catalog) and distinct as the band had reformed, Billy Gib- straight country, or even straight both for better and worse. After the the label’s most traditional Texas- bons invited the group to open for rock and roll, it’s basically three- success of their debut International sounding release – unapologetically ZZ Top at an upcoming Austin date chord stuff that’s real… if you can Artists album The Psychedelic Sounds shitkicking and shuffling — Power (though the whole concert eventu- play guitar, you can sit in with of…(and the single “You’re Gonna Plant nonetheless continues to be ally fell apart, thanks to “stupid Leary began with, the LSD prophets, were all about something that was possible in evolution. You’d take drugs and you’d get real high, you’d see all this stuff and your mind would expand, but somewhere in your mind there’d be this doubt because you knew you’d taken drugs to get there. It took something as heavy as psychedelics to bring people into that potential consciousness, make the neuron connections at the synapses that actually allowed a whole other perspective. But really that was all that it was supposed to do. The stuff itself, the essential levels of being, are, for all practical purposes, probably eternal like most religions claim. It’s always there, God’s everywhere, whatever, you just don’t lift your mind to it. To do that you had to do this thing to yourself, the good ol’ Eastern analogy in The Prophet that you use a boat to get anybody, play anywhere and play (Sutherland). In my opinion, Stacy stuff. Now it’s kinda backed away across a river, but you don’t drag a all the stuff. But with all of my was the musical genius in the Eleva- from that, you can’t really say ‘leave boat across the desert. Once you get songs it’s not really like that. It’s tors. Roky was a great singer; the your body behind,’ it’s not happening there you let the boat go on. almost like that, but there’s always things he could do with his voice, right now. Obviously Hermeticism is a big a designed chord change for effect, he’s one of the best singers I’ve ever influence on you – you named in every one of them, that you have heard, as a person I love him dearly, So, if we follow that idea of the the band after it – but at what to know or it just doesn’t sound he’s my life long friend, I can’t say masking of messages in the ’60s, point did you start delving into good. enough good things about him, but the typical line on Elevators it? a musical genius — that’s not a songs, for example, is that most How old were you when you term I would ever consider. But of the songs are full of drug began writing songs? Stacy, yeah. references, though they seem Early on. At 16 or 17-years-old open enough for interpretation I was reading more or less esoteric Early teens. I’d been writing poems Did you know Stacy… that you could think about them things, but not really until I met since long before that, but the first in many different contexts. Tommy did I really snap to what it thing that really snapped me to Before the Elevators? No, but we was really all about, that it was worth music was being able to write poems became good friends during the times Sure, of course. devoting a lot of time to understand, to it. That was the thing that really that we shared. But he was way that it was a life-long quest. interested me in music at first, out there musically; he was the best What do you think of that partic- Are the songs on Power Plant because I’d been writing lovelorn rock and roll guitar player there’s ular interpretation and, second, the extent of Golden Dawn’s poems to girlfriends in the ridiculous ever been. And then Tommy (Hall) in what ways was your songwrit- material, or were there songs not hope that somehow that beautiful certainly influenced my writing; I ing similar and dissimilar? included on the record? poem was going to win her heart. went in a whole different direction Of course it never did, but it helped after meeting Tommy. Instead of That’s an excellent question, because me anyway. love poems it was like the trouba- that’s really the essence of so much We wrote the last song in the hotel dours back in the 12th century, the of it. I’ve thought about it a lot, and or something. I think we wrote Did Dylan or someone influence bards that went around the courts I may not have a good answer but “Seeing is Believing” as the last your thinking that you could set singing their songs. They were doing I’ll give it a shot. I think that what song, I think Jimmy and I wrote poetry to music? it to avoid persecution, because happened is that anthropologically that in the Western Skies hotel in Christianity was just coming in there humans had evolved to a place right Houston because we needed another Absolutely. Definitely Dylan. The and to be a heretic meant to be put before the ’60s – and it does go for- song. No, that was all the material biggest single influence I ever had. to the sword. So in order to keep wards and backwards from there, it’s we had at the time, and we never did Second would probably be the Roll- their pagan religions alive, they had not like there’s this time, there’s this any cover songs. Actually I take that ing Stones, Beatles, and the Eleva- to refer to the other world that you zone. There’s probably a hundred- back – we did do some Dylan songs tors. If there had to be an order were supposed to try to attain as year grey zone that we don’t know and Rolling Stones songs. it’d probably be something like that. a woman, so the she in the songs about where there were guys like us Was the Dylan song you did the But Dylan as a writer just blew me was really a spiritual she, or a level back in the 18th century. But it other night (“It Takes a Lot to away. they were trying to reach spiritually really kinda came about in the ’60s, Laugh, It Takes a Train to Cry”) but couldn’t say because they’d be and I think the states of mind that one that you used to play? When you say the Elevators had persecuted and killed for it. So to are possible for humans to achieve an influence on you, do you mean escape that they came up with this were really hidden after WWII, with the whole band or primarily Roky genre of music, and strangely enough the whole military industrial complex Yep. Erickson? it reappeared in the ’60s in America. and the ’50s perfect mother/perfect So the record was done in Hous- All of a sudden this whole thing father-vision world. The same states ton? Roky sort of as a persona and a came about where what they were of mind that acid and psychedelics friend, but musically more like Stacy really talking about was some heavy actually got you in to, that Timothy Yep, at Andrus Studios. Frank do anything, they didn’t have any of what they could have. audience is not there for me. The Davis was the engineer. booking people, they didn’t have any breaking up of the Dawn, having promotional facilities, no budget, no Living in Houston, everything was a few other bands but never really Was that the first time you’d nothing, just a bunch of contracts right, everything was set for it to be getting back in the studio - all that been in a studio proper? where nobody could do anything the new centre of music in America. was a big blow to my vanity. I just else. They wouldn’t let us play up Austin kinda stole that away from thought we were so good, the stuff First time, yeah. We’d done a few here; they tried to sue us for playing it… was so good, there was just no market things here and there, usual garage gigs in Austin to pay our fucking for it. So I spent 20 years basically band saving up $100 and then cut- rent. So were you not playing (Austin playing campfire gigs. Still writing ting a tape somewhere. club) Vulcan Gas Company or songs, still studying the stuff, still You’re kidding?! places like that? singing and doing the thing, there How long did the recording was just no audience. take? No, they told us we couldn’t play No, honestly – and this is going to up here without their getting us piss some people off, but I’m at the So you left Austin in the early It took a few weeks, going down the gigs, but they wouldn’t get any point where it really doesn’t matter ’70s and went to the West Coast there, spending 4 or 5 days, then for us. to me – truth is that Austin never first, and Tennessee after that? coming back. gave me the fucking time of day. Did the Elevators have these Houston has always been real kind Yeah, I went to the West Coast and What sort of influence did Frank kinds of problems? to me, when we played Love Street had a lot of fun, though the hippie Davis have on the process? or the Catacombs or any of those thing kinda got on my nerves. I Oh absolutely! They never had any places, people came out. Austin’s never was much of a commune guy. I always sort of thought of him as a money, they were as broke as we always been…we couldn’t get booked I was always independent, hunted hero, I thought he was way ahead of were. They never had anything. I at the Vulcan Gas Company, and and fished by myself, I was just raised us, a real studio guy. We were just remember two or three times walking I think it was political. For one that way. a bunch of kids from South Austin around after an Elevators gig with thing we were real heavy into our wanting to kick some ass, but he Roky, two or three of us, calling trip, we really did believe that all the It’s interesting that you grew up always had good advice, helped us Lelan Rogers and Bill Dillard at their stuff and the drugs were for spiritual hunting and fishing since you find the sounds we wanted to get. I house in the middle of the night and enlightenment, and nobody really seemed like such a precocious can’t remember more than a general making them get up and give us $10 liked that. Austin’s real laid back, child. ambience that he contributed to so we could go to Lee’s Den and get you’re supposed to get married, go the whole process. He wasn’t an some Chinese food ’cause we were all fuck your girlfriend and that’s it. My dad was an actor and my mom authority figure, we all just had a lot hungry. And at that time they really was director of the Austin Civic of respect for him, he was kind of were the top band in the country, But why was it different for the Theatre, but I grew up hunting and a legend, having already done some better than anybody else not by a Elevators then? fishing. I was raised with a gun in my stuff and worked with the Elevators. little bit but by a lot. And we were no hand, blood and guts, fistfights, the His reputation preceded him and he slouches either, and we had nothing. Well it wasn’t too much, but for one total redneck. All of us in the Golden treated us real well, was really into So yeah, Mayo’s right, I second thing they were a little bit advanced Dawn were. Part of the criteria for my songs. what he said. from us, musically they were prob- being in a band was you had to know ably a notch ahead of us at the time. how to fight. They hated long hair; I’ve read some interviews with Was IA like this at the time that We learned a lot from ’em and they the good ol boys of South Austin Mayo Thompson in which he’s you signed with them? were really good. It was pretty stiff would kick your ass. referred to the days when Red competition with the Elevators; too Krayola was still with Interna- No, because I think we were the bad we weren’t from some other So then you went to Tennessee. tional Artists, and his feeling second band to sign with them, they town. It was tough being the best I know Memphis at that time that the label didn’t do anything had the Elevators and that was all we band with them around because had a pretty wide-open scene for them promotion-wise, adver- needed to know. We knew the world they’d come out and blow everybody’s as far as what was happening tising-wise, etc. How does that was gonna be at our feet. It’s one shit away. So there was that, and musically… compare with your experience of the stupidest — just how naïve then the fact that we were not just a with them? kids can be — but it never dawned good time, “let’s get stoned” band, Yeah, I was never really too in on on me that we weren’t going to be not that there’s anything wrong with that but I was definitely into the They were horrible. They had the as famous as the Beatles. Of course that, it just wasn’t us. We were Nashville stuff. I was lucky. I was world by the ass. They had the nobody’s as famous as the Beatles, warriors, I mean honestly, we put going to Nashville, and my car broke central Texas Liverpool, it’s really but we were good and we were gonna our armour on and went out to do down in a little town on I-40. While one of those great historical fuckups. be the Americans to take back over battle with evil forces every time we I was waiting for my car to get fixed They had the talent, with the Eleva- the country from the English groups, went on stage. I bought a house, so I just stayed tors, us, Red Krayola, Lost and because we knew we were that good. and never came back. And in the Found, Bubble Puppy, everybody, Or we thought we were, we knew Musically, since 1970, you little town where I broke down and that was the vanguard of Texas the Elevators were and we were their haven’t had a whole lot of record- bought the house happened to live music, and they had them all on one protégés. And it just never occurred ings released… one of Johnny Cash’s most prolific label. That part was great, they just to us that we’d be mismanaged so songwriters, Vince Matthews. He did nothing with it. They had no atrociously. So it happened to None at all. and I hit it off like that (snap). He idea what they were doing, Lelan the Elevators, it happened to us, it didn’t have anything to do all day Rogers and Bill Dillard and those happened to everybody. All the IA …and it seems like you’ve taken a but stay in the little town square and guys, they just didn’t have a fucking bands never did shit. big step back from making music drink beer and wait for his royalty clue, a bunch of fucking idiots. A your primary outlet. cheques to come in, and he needed bunch of lawyers who said “hey, this And it’s really telling that IA a drinking buddy and there I was. is the way to make some money, is still such a revered label to Actually, it’s not really like that. So we hung out and he introduced let’s get ‘em all signed” and then this day considering they didn’t I really have continued to write all me to everybody in Nashville. I did a now what do you do? They couldn’t accomplish half, even a quarter the time and play, it’s just that the show with Johnny Cash, I was on my way to fame and fortune there. something about the real things Was that your goal when you that are going on in the evolution went in the first place? of the species. I just don’t really hear it, I wish I did. It sounds so I wanted to be a country star, then shitty because I love going to hear I got up there and to really do it was people play, and there’s a lot of good gonna be too much trouble. I just musicians out there, great people couldn’t make myself go into town and good songs. And it’s probably enough, even there I wanted to stay good enough, just not exactly right home. I’ve always been a recluse. for me.

So you’ve finally released a new Did you feel that void filled at all CD, Golden Dawn is playing at the show the other night? shows again; what’s different now? Some. I think that’s one of the closest things to it, the stuff I heard Well, right now it’s different with was people really trying to get into The Golden Dawn because Eric Arn that thing. And it’s kinda beautiful (Texas Psych Fest co-promoter) because they’re really sort of on their called me up with this idea and asked own, it’s like kids raised without if we’d be interested, and I said yeah leaders, and on the one hand it’s a it sounds cool, I don’t know if I can waste of time but on the other they get the guys all up for it or who can come up with some shit that no one do it, but yeah. We only stopped would have come up with, because because nobody gave a shit, so if they had to. So you’ve got this somebody gives a shit then hell yeah, new psychedelic thing happening we’ll get back in. and it’s like they’re coming up with shit that we wouldn’t think about, Are the motivations and objec- because they’re having to come up tives the same? with something on their own. And that’s really where it’s all at; that’s It’s all exactly the same. It’s almost the whole thing in a way. like reading a newspaper, you change the dates and it’s the same story, but And how do you feel like you fit the approach is a little bit different. in, given that? My approach has certainly changed, I’ve matured a lot, I don’t take acid Well, I feel like not only is it a anymore, I’ve changed my lifestyle a pleasure and an honour for me to do lot. A lot of things have changed but it, but I do think it’s a responsibil- as far as the music and the message, ity, because I was sincere about it. really no. The cutting edge never Whether I was a big star or whether changes. Sometimes society gathers 15 people gave a shit or not, there on that edge, and they were doing were still those 15 people. That’s that in the ’60s, especially with a lot of people for one guy. Really. the Elevators. There were Elevator They always say if you can count concerts where everybody was tuned your friends on one hand by the in, it wasn’t Tommy Hall, it wasn’t time you’re 50 years old you’ve beat Roky, it was everybody that was the game, you’re a happy guy, and I there. They’d come to that edge, but can do that. So the fact that there then it’d get scary on that precipice. happens to be some people around Most people don’t want to be out who’ve taken an interest is very there. There have to be some people rewarding to me, it really is. It’s out there, the trailblazers have to very satisfying to me. be. But most people go up there and they get something out of it George Kinney was interviewed hopefully that they’ll always keep, but then they back away from it and they settle down. On a societal scale it’s like you wake up the next morning, y’know, and you’re going “that was pretty wild shit”. Then you go feed your cat.

Have you kept up with the cur- rent music that’s been spawned by all of this?

Some of it, I like a lot of it. I keep wanting to hear someone saying