..; . 1887. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 597
burg, Va., in favor of the repeal of the internal-revenue taxon tobacco; Mary Lathrop; and to Mrs. Mary Jane Case-to the Committee on In and for rebate should said tax be removed-to the Committee on Ways valid Pensions. - · and Means. By Mr. WARD: Resolutions adopted by the Illinois Stat.e board of · By Mr. W. C. P. BRECKINRIDGE: Petition of a chamber of com agriculture, relating to the suppression of pleuro-pneumoma-to the merce for appropriation for coast defense-to the Committee on Appro Committee on Agriculture. . priations. By Mr. A. J. WARNER: Petition of E. B. Beebe, for investigation By Mr. BUNNELL: Petition of 121citizens of theFifteenthdistrict into conspiracy of cert.
the question of prohibiting the sale of intoxicating liquors in this Dis Statutes, and making Hartford, in the State of Connecticut, a port of trict. I move that the petition be referred to the Committee on the entry in. place of Middletown, reported it without amendment. District of Columbia. Mr. FRYE. I am also instructed by the Committee on Commerce to The motion was agreed to. report favombly an amendment intended to be proposed to the post Mr. CULLOM presented resolutions adopted at a meeting of the office appropriation bill providing for the expenditure of $400,000 to
members of the Peoria County Grange, of Peoria County, lllinois1 in carry our mails between the United States and Brazil and Central and favor of the passage of the interstate-commerce bill; which were or Sonth America. I move that the amendment be referred to the Com dered to lie on the table. mittee on Appropriations and printed. He also presented resolutions adopted at a meeting of the members The motion was agreed to. of the Commercial Exchange of Philadelphia, in favor of the passage 1l1r. GORMAN. I am directed by the Committee on Commerce, to of the interstate-commerce bill, and especially indorsing those sections whom was referred the bill (S. 2944) making appropriation for the jet in it relating to pooling and the long and short haul; which were or ties in Charleston Harbor, to report it with an amendment. dered to lie on the table. Mr. HAMPTON. I ask that the amendment may be read. ~1r. WILLIAMS presented a petition of the Californi..'\ State Horti The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The amendment will be reported. cultural Society, pmying for the passage of the so-called Hatch experi The CHIEF CLERK. The Committee on Commerce propose to amend ment-station bill for the development of agriculture; which was or the bill, in line 3, before the word "hundred," by striking out "five" dered to lie on the table. and inserting "three;" so as to read: Mr. COLQUITT presented a petition of the executive committee of That the sum of $300,000 be, and the same is hereby, app1·opriated, out of any the Grand Lodge of the Independent Order of Good Templars of :Mon money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, to expedite the completion of the jetties in Charleston Harbor, said sum to be made available immediately tana Territory, praying for the passage of the bill (S. 1570) granting to on the passage of this act. the people of the District of Columbia the right to determine by ballot whether intoxicating liquors may hereafter be legally manufactured · Mr. HAllfPTON. May I ask unanimous consent for the immediate and sold in that District; which was referred to the Committee on the cOnsideration of that bill? It is a matter of great consequence that it District of Columbia. should be considered now and go to the House of Representatives. l\Ir. COLQUITT. I desire to call attention to the petition which I Mr. EDMUNDS. I must object to that, although I am in favor of presented yesterday afternoon in favor of the passage of the interstate doing everything necessary for those jetties. The subject properly be commerce bill. It was published in the RECORD, but not read, as I longs in the river and harbor bill, and I want to see how much provis did not wish to consume the time of the Senate. It appears as a peti ion was made in the last appropriation bill for that purpose. tion of citizens of Georgia merely, without any names attached to it, The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Objection being made, the request stating that it was signed by numerous citizens. It is due to the gen of the Senator from South Carolina can not be complied with. tlemenwho sentmethe petition, accompanied by a letter, that I should 11-fr. GORMAN. I ask that a communication from the Secretary of state that it is signed by citizens of Atlanta, Ga., and signed by the War, in relation to the improvement of Charleston Harbor, which re leading wholesale merchants as well as leading and influential citizens fers to the billijust reported from the Committee on Commerce, may of that State, such men as L. E. Bleckley, R. D. Spalding, John Col be printed for the use of the Senate and lie upon the table. lier, Maddox Rucker & Co., Moore, Marsh· & Co., M. C. & J.P. Ki The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no objection the order ser & Co., Cha:mberlin, John & Co., and othern. to print the communication as a document will be made. I make this remark so that the petition may be identified as their Mr. BROWN, from the Committee on Railroads, to whom was re petition, and to show that I have executed their request. fen·ed the joint resolution (H. Res. 72) to provide for the settlement Mr. GORMAN presented the petition of Henrietta V. :Minnix, of of acwunts with the Mobile and Ohio Railroad Company, reported it Washington, D. C., praying for a remission of taxes levied for special without amendment. improvements; which was referred to the Committee on the District of :1\fr. DAWES, from the Committee on Indian Affairs, to whom was Columbia. referred the bill (H. R. 7648) for the relief of the esta.te of the late Mr. CAMERON presented the petition of R. Shoemaker, of Phila John How, Indian agent, and his sureties, reported it without amend· delphia, Pa., the petition of Dr. Swayne & Son, of Philadelphia, Pa., ment. the petition of George W. Plumley, of Philadelphia, Pa., and the pe Mr. HAMPTON, from the Committee on Indian Affairs, to whom tition of Henry K. Wampole & Co., of Philadelphia, Pa., praying for was referred the bill (S. 331) for the relief of George W. Ira, M. D., a reduction of internal-revenue taxes; which were referred to the Com of Nebraska, reported adversely thereon, and the bill was postponed in mittee on Finance_ definitely. 1\ir. BROWN presented a petition of a large number of citizens of Mr. JONES, of Arkansas, from the Committee on Claims, to whom Cedartown, in the State of Georgia, praying that the internal-revenue was referred the bill (H. R. 898) for the relief of the estate of Joel C. taxes may be reduced as rapidly as the condition of the Treasury will Frazier, deceased, reported it without amendment, and submitted are allow; which was referred to the Committee on Finance. port thereon. Mr. JONES, of Arkansas, presented a petition of Mrs. Lydia :M. BILLS INTRODUCED. Chase and others, members of the Arkansas State Women's Christian Mr. MORGAN. At the request of several of the delegn.tes from the Temperance Union, praying for legislation for the adequate punish five civilized tribes, I introduce a bill. ment of crimes against women and girls in the District of Columbia; The bill (S. 3129) to authorize Indians of the Cherokee, Chickasaw, , which was referred to the Committee on the District of Columbia. Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole tribes of Indians to bring suits in cer Mr. :McPHERSON presented a resolution adopted by the city coun tain courts of the United States relating to the condemnation of their cil of Passaic, N. J., urging the passage of a bill to appropriate the sur-_ property for public uses, was read by its title, and referred to the Com plus revenue toward building a navy in all respects second to none of mittee on Indian Affairs. the great navies of Europe, and the construction of a system of coast Mr. SEWELL introduced a bill (S. 3130) for the erection of a pub defenses to protect us from foreign fleets in case of war; which was re lic building in Paterson, N. J.; which was read twice by its title, and ferred to the Committee on Naval Affairs. referred to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. Mr. EVARTS presented a petition of manufacturers and dealers in hlr. MITCHELL, of Pennsylvania, introduced a bill (S. 3131) grant drugs, essential oils, &c., of New York city and Brooklyn, N.Y., pray ing a pension to Hugh Rogers; which was read twice by its title. ing for a reduction of internal-revenue taxes; which was referred to the Mr. MITCHELL, of Pennsylvania. I will state in this connection Committee on Finance. that the bill is introduced on the recommendation of the Commissioner 1'l1r. HOAR presented the petition of Doolittle & Smith, wholesale ·of Pensions that a special act be passed in this case. I move that the druggists, of Boston, Mass., praying for a reduction of internal-revenue bill be referred to the Committee on Pensions. taxes; which was referred to the Committee on Finance. The motion was agreed to. Mr. CAMERON (by request) introduced a bill (S. 3132) for the re REPORTS OF CO?tiMITTEES. lief of Reaney, Son & Archbold; which was read twice by its title, Mr. HOAR, from the Committee on the Library, to whom was re and referred to the Committee on Claims. ferred the bill (S. 2928) making an appropriation for the erection of a He also introduced a bill (S. 3133) to provide for the appointment of monument to the negro soldiers and sailors who gave their lives for the commissioners to represent the Federal Government in the Constitutional preservation of the Government, reported it with an amendment. Centennial Commission, and to authorize them to take part in carrying 1\fr. WILSON, of Iowa, from the Committee on Post-Offices and Post out the programme arranged for the celebration of the centennial anni Roads, to whom the subject was referred, reported a bill (S. 3128) con versary of the framing and promulgation of the Constitution of the United cerning post-offices of the third class; which was read twice by its title. States of America, to be held at Philadelphia on the 15th, 16th, and 17th Mr. PLUMB, from the Committee on Public Lands, to whom was days of September, A. D. 1887; for the publication of public archives and referred the bill (H. R. 679) to extend the laws of the United States other documents; and making an appropriation for the same and ether over certain unorganized territory south of the State of Kansas, reported purposes; which was read twice by its title, and referred to the Select it with an amendment. Committee on the Centennial of the Constitution and the Discovery of 1\{r. FRYE, from the Committee on Commerce, to whom was referred A.meriea. the bill (H. R. 9859) to amend sections 2533 and 2534 of the Revised Mr. HAWLEY introduced a joint resolution (S. R. 94) orderingthe 1887. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 599
printing of the annual report of the National Academy of Sciences, with When Mr. Bliss was here the other day, he filed, and had :~.llowed on Decem ber 29, a bill for S870 in full for all services rendered up to October 3t, 1886 in the accompanying memoirs; which was read twice by its title, andre the Lindsay land-fraud cases. Since the beginning of the current fiscal year ferred to the Committee on Printing. Mr. Bliss has presented three bills for services. 'l'he first of these reached the Comptroller on September 28,and was foran aggregate amount of~24 for serv COIDIERCE AND NAVIGATION OF LAKE CHAMPLAIN. ices as special counsel in prosecuting the Brazilian forgery cases, but $616 of Mr. the account was suspended, for the reason that it covered services during the ED}fUNDS. I offer a resolution of which I ask the present con fiscal year 1885-'86, for which the appropriation made by Congress had been ex sideration. hausted. His per diem for twenty-two days during that fiscal year was there The Chief Clerk read the resolution, as follows: fore suspended, and will not be examined until after a deficiency appropriation lS passed by Congress. Resol'!)ed, That the Light-House Board be, and it hereby is, directed to 1·eport On October 12 he filed another account for an aggregate sum of U8'7.50, cover to the Senate what information may be in its possession concerning the amount ing his regular services as district attorney, and of this amount the Comptroller of commerce through that part of Lake Champlain lying between the islands of allowed $225. There was one disallowance of $45,covering per diem for presence Norlh Hero and South Hero, and of the necessity or convenience to that com in court, on nine days on which the previous account for his presence in othel' merce of lighting the channel there, together with an estimate or the expense of districts as special counsel in the Brazilian forgery cases showed he could not a. suitable structure or structures for that purpose. have been in Saint Louis. The Comptroller also held up $205 of the account The resolution was considered by unanimous consent, and agreed to. covering per diem for forty-one days, pending a statement by Mr. Bliss show: ing whether he was actually in attendance on each day charged for, or repre Mr. ED~fUNDS. I offer another resolution touching that same sented by his salaried assistant, or all or some of the dates in question. It will channel, directed to the Secretary of War, for which I ask present con be seen that the old trouble between 1\fr. Bliss and the Comptroller will come sideration. up again when his final settlement is made. The Chief Clerk read the resolution, as follows: This article shows that there are many cases which are now, if not R esolved, That the Secretary of War be, and he is hereby, directed to communi in cate to the Senate any information in his possession touching the condition of litigation, under discussion in the Department for services claimed the cha.nnel in that part of Lake Champlain which lies between the islands of to have been rendered by district attorneys as representing the United North and South Hero together with an estimate of the expense necessary to a States in State courts. The Comptroller, in my judgment very prop suitable deepening of the said channel for the purpose of more convenient navi gation of said lake and of properly marking the same with buoys. erly, refuses to allow them. If there is any law which authorizes the Department of Justice to send United States district attorneys into The resolution wa.s considered by unanimous consent, and agreed to. State courts to attend to litigation where the United States is not a MISSOURI RIVER COIDIISSION REPORT. party, I do not know of it. Mr. M:ANDERSON submitted the following resolution; which was As to this Pacific Railway case, I am not pretending to enter into referred to the Committee on Printing: the merits of the controversy between Mr. Bliss and the Government Eesoltved, That 200 extra. copies of the Appendix A B to the report of the Mis or the Department of Justice; but the point I make is that it is very souri River Commission, House Executive Document No. 28, Forty-ninth Con obvious Mr. Bliss thinks he had a contract with the Department of gress, second session, be printed for the use of the commission. Justice to attend to the Pacific Railway suit. The record shows that CRlMINAL PROSECUTIONS BY FEDERAL OFFICIALS. the Government had nothing to do with the suit. If there was any The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there are no further ''concurrent subtle or mysterious connection between the Government and the rail or other resolutions," the Chair lays before the Senate a resolution sub way company in that litigation Congress ought to know it. mitted yesterday by the Senator from Missouri [Mr. VE':lT], which There is no law, I repeat, on the statute books which authorizes the comes over under objection. The resolution will be read. employment of special counsel in such cases. The Chief Clerk read the resolution, as follows: I do not care whether it hits Democrat or Republican. The resolu Resol'!)ed by the Senate of the United States, That the Secreta1·y of the Treasury tion covers two years of the present Administration, and if the present furnish to this body a full and complete statement, by itemized account of all Attorney-General has engaged in this practice I want it known. It is money paid out for or on account, d1rectly or indirectly, of prosecutions of crim a violation of law, in my judgment as a lawyer. If there has been this inal causes in State courts by Federal officials of the Department of Justice, De partment of the Interior, and the Secret Service Bureau of the Treasury Depart peculiar sort of litigation by the United States, and I do not know how, ment, from the 1st day of July,l879, to the 1st day of December, 1886, together to appear in a State court or to be involved in liti~tion in a State court with a list of all such officials or agents or employes engaged in such prosecu requiring the presence of its district attorney to defend its interests, I tions, and the amount each received and for what specific services it was paid, and to state by what authority of law such proceedings have been carried on should like to know it. and p:~oyments made, and what pecuniary interest or vested rights the United The present Comptroller, Mr. Durham, refuses to allow these ac States had connected with such prosecutions in said State courts. counts. His predecessor, Jndge Lawrence, refused to allow them. Mr. ED~IDNDS. It is evident on the face of that resolution that it .As I said before, without going into the merits of the controversy as calls for information the publication of which in some respects-not in a matter of contract, I simply, as a public man discharging my duty, all by any means, but in some respects-might be extremely injurious want to know under what law that contract or assumed contract was to public interests in respect of the detective service of the United made. States and other points that I might mention. I therefore think it I have no objection to striking out that portion of the resolution in wiser for the public interest that it should be referred to a committee r%G'3ol'd to the secret service. I put it in because I supposed there might in order that they may ascertain from the Treasury Department or be cases that it would be claimed originated in the secret service, but otherwise what is the state of the thing and whether all of this informa I am willing to modify the resolution in that respect. tion, or how much of it if not all, may be communicated with safety There is no necessity in my judgment for referring the resolution to to the public interest. · a committee. It is a resolution of inquiry calling for facts. If it goes I therefore move that the resolution be referred to the Committee on to a committee they will simply inquire as to whether an inquiry is the Judiciary. necessary, and how they could ever arrive at a conclusion without the :Mr. VEST. The objection made by the Senator from Vermont can facts it is impossible !or me to imagine. be fully met by simply inserting ''if not incompatible with the public I hope, therefore, that it will not be referred, and I call for the yeas interest." and nays on the motion of the Senator from Vermont. :Mr. EDMUNDS. We ne-ver address a Secretary in that way. Mr. ED!fUNDS. I second the demand for the yeas and nays, Mr. Mr. VEST. There is no reason why we should not. If we choose President. to put the matter within the discretion of the Secretary, we can do so, The PRESIDENT pro tempore. On the question of reference the as a matter of course. yeas and nays are demanded. I have no partisan or personal object in offering the resolution. It The yeas and nays were ordered. . will be seen by reading it that it covers several years of the adminis Ur. EDMUNDS. Now, Mr. President, I wish to say a word. tration of the last Republican President and two years of the present So far as the resolution relates, if it relates at all, to getting informa administration. If irregularities and violations of law have been com tion in regard to any contract, or supposed contract, or pretended con mitted by either administration it ought to be known. tract of any official ofthe Government of the United States in regard · The immediate cause of my offering the resolution is found in a. pub to the prosecution or defense of any civil suit in a State court, or in a lication in the Saint Louis Republican of January 9, which is as fol United States court, or a Territorial court, or a foreign court, or any lows: where else, I have not the slightest objection. But the resolution is not that. It is a resolution which, if answer!Ul, or which, if the Secre 'V ASHTNGTON, January 9.-(Special.]-Distrlct-Attorney Bliss has brouo-ht suit in the Court of Claims to recover from the United States S3 175 on ~unt of tary were allowed to answer in the terms in which it stands, might deductions from his fee bills made by the First Comptroller: Of this amount expose to death a great many people who have given information to $675 is on account of disallowances by t.he present Comptroller, but the remain der, $2,500, covers a deduction from one of his accounts by the last Republican the officers of this Government in the discharge of their duty and have Con:ptroller, ~ udge ~aw~ence .. It seems a couple of suits in equity were brought been paid for it, concerning the commission of crimes, &c. agamst the M1ssour1 Pacific Railway Company to recover certain taxes which I received the other day a letter from a citizen of l\fissonri (certainly accrued in 1862-'63 against the old Missouri Pacific but were never collected A compromise of the litigation was ultimately arra.~ged under which an allow: a resident, I have no doubt a citizen) on this very subject, evidently, &nee of $2,500 for attorneys' fees was made. Mr. Bliss did not regard this as an although he did not state the circumstances with sufficient clearness offi.ci~l fee for wJ;Iich he should account to the Government, and made no report to enable me to understand it; but it was on the subject of the state of of 1t m any of his settlements. Comptroller Lawrence took a. different view and deducted the amount from one of the fee accounts subsequently submitted the law concerning the right of district attorneys of the United States hr Mr. Bli~s. The suit in th~ Co'!n~ of Claims has been brought to establish the to appear and defend the interests of the United States in State courts nght of Bliss to the money m th1s mstance, as well as in the cases where Comp and to be paid for so doing. I replied to him, as I endeavor to do to trolle~ Durha~ has refused to allow per diem for constructive presence in.court in Samt LouJ.S, when other accounts show Bliss was actually absent in some every letter that is decent in ita terms addressed to me, either person other district, acting as special Government counsel. ally or as chairman of a committee, that if he would furnish me with
. 600 UONGl{ESSIONAL l~ECORD-SENATE. J .ANU.A.RY 13.,
sufficient information to understand what he meant I would endeavor faets as they exist upon the records of the Department, I am willing to to have it investigated and acted upon. I have received no reply. meet the views of the Senator from Vermont and his objections, tech~ So it is quite unnecessary for the Senator from .Missouri to suggest nical or hyper-technical as they may be, and to strike out all that por~ that his resolution is not a partisan one. I do not think any proper tion of the resolution which refers to the secret-service department of resolution of inquiry can be a partisan one in the just sense. I have t:he Government. always favored every resolution of inquiry that was proper in its nature, I also meet now the new or objection of the Senator from Kansas by addressed in the times when the Democrats had possession of the Sen withdrawing any suggestion as to the words ''if compatible with thtf ate and were oYer hauling everything going on in the Departments, that public interest," and leave this simply an inquiry as to th.e actual em.. the necessity of the case did not require should not be made absolutely ployment of assistant counsel by the Department of Justice to attend public. So I do not take the resolution in the sense of having any to litigation in the St-ate cOurts where the United States is pretended to party idea to hunt out the misdoings of a Republican official or aDem have been interested, but where the United States does not appear upon ocratic official. I only treat it fairly on its face as being a resolution the record. commanding "the return of information to the Senate a very considera Mr. ED?tiUNDS. Would not "alleged" do as well as "pretend~ ble part of which might be not only disastrous to the public interests, ed"? if made public; but also expose to great pe.J.?Onal danger many persons. Mr. VEST. If the Senator wants to make an amendment to my The Judiciary Committee, if the matter is sent to them, will en- remarks, I accept it with a great deal of pleasure. . dro.vor to do their duty by it. :Mr. EDMUNDS. I was proposing an amendment to the Senator's Mr. INGALLS. Mr. President, I received a copy of this resolution, resolution. or perhaps I should more properly say a resolution identical in terms Mr. VEST. I was using certain forms of expression in regard to with this, from a citizen of another State than my own some weeks what I understand the resolution to mean. My object is simply to ago, requesting me to introduce it in the Senate. Knowing nothing know whether there has been an infraction of the law by·the Depart· about the matter I replied that I should be unwilling to do so unless ment of Justice, whether under Republican or Democratic administra further advised as to the necessity for the inquiry which was proposed. tion, whether the money of the people has been taken without any To that letter I received an answer divulging the motive of the writer legal authority for it to send special counsel who were then salaried in asking for the investigation, which enables me to state that although officers of the United States into the State courts, and where, in my the incentive is not a partisan one, it is, as I understand, distinCtively judgment, they had no legal authority to be. a personal one, having for its object not perhaps the prosecution of a po In regard to what bas fallen from the Senator from Kansas and the litical purpose, but it may be for the purpose perhaps of redressing a Senator from Vermont with reference to a letter, I have simply to say . fancied personal grievance. that I have received several letters from the same source, and I de~ So far as the particular case to which the Senntor from Missouri has clined to act upon them because I suspected there might be some per referred in the newspaper extract that he has read is concerned, if there sonal feeling at the bottom of the suggested action from that party. bas been anything in that which requires investigation in thE) opinion But when in a reputable newspaper, one of the leading journals of the of that Senator I am willing to vote for the adoption of a resolution Mississippi Valley, I see this statement with amounts and dates and that shall put the inquiry on foot. Whether that is the particular in specifications, and when calling at the Treasury Department I :find stance which led to the presentation of this resolution I am not pre that not only this account of Mr. Bliss (for I disclaim any personal a~ pared to say, neither am I at this time prepared to deny; but in any tack upon l'l:ir. Bliss} but accounts of other district attorneys are pend~ event the exhibition which has been made by the Senator from Mis ing there now to the amount of thousands upon thousands of dolla.m souri of the particular instance that appears in his judgment to require for services in the State courts while they were receiving salaries from investigation, clearly shows either that the resolution should be modi the Government, in my judgment, I should be derelict in my duty if I :fied or else it should be referred to the Committee on the Judiciary for did not attempt to bring the facts before the Congress of the United further examination. States. The Senator from Missouri suggests that the difficulty might be · I ask for the yeas and nays on the motion to refer the resolution. avoided by adding the words "if not incompatible with the public There is no necessity for referring it. interest." Who ever heard of a resolution addressed by the Senate to The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The yeas and nays have been or~ a head of a Department asking him to communicate information in his dered. possession "if not incompatible with the public interest?" Who ever Mr. INGALLS. I und-erstood the Senator from Missouri to modify confided to one of those officers such discretion as that? Those terms his resolution. are only employed when addressing the President of the United States. Mr. VEST. Yes. 11-'Ir. EDMUNDS. And touchirig foreign relations. :Mr. INGALLS. Let it be read, as we are to vote on it. M.r. INGALLS. And touching, as· I understand, relations between Mr. EDMUNDS. He can not modify it now, the yeas and nays other governments and our own. I should be unwilling at this time having been ordered; but I shall withdraw my motion to refer if the to establish a precedent which would justify us hereafter in leaving to Senator from Missouri will put into form the substance of what he has the discretion of one of the heads of the Departments which we have last stated, because, as far .as he goes about the mere employment al~ created the authority either to withhold or transmit information as he leged to be illegal of anybody to serve the United States in a public saw :fit. matter, I do not object to all the information there is in the world I hope, inasmuch as the Senator has seen :fit to reinforce this resolu being got. tion by a specific instance of the wrong which has been done, that he The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Missouri modified will think best either to limit the inquiry to that particular case or to his resolution before the yeas and nays were ordered. allow the resolution to go to the Committee on the Judiciary for the Mr. INGALLS. Let it be read as modified. purpose of ascertaining how far the inquiry should proceed. We either The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It will be read. ought to have that particular evidence or we ought to have such of the The Chief Clerk read the resolution as modified, as follows: evidence as can be communicated without i.l}jury to the public wel Resolved by the &nate of the United Statu, That the Secretary of the Treasury fare, and a committee of this body is better qualified to judge whether furnish to this body a full and complete statement, by itemized account, of all money raid out for or on account, directly or indirectly, of prosecutions of this whole mass of evidence ought to be submitted than the head of crimina causes in State courts by Federal offi.cials of the Department of Justice the Department to which it is addressed. and Department of the Interior, from the 1st day of July, 1879, to the 1st day of Inasmuch as this inquiry would cover, as the Senator from Missouri December, 1886, together with a list of all such offi.cials or agents or employ~ engaged in such prosecutions, and the amount each received, and for what says, half of an administration that was Republican and half of one specific services it was paid, and to state by what authority of law such proceed that was Democratic, and inasmuch as this evidence is now in the pos ings have been carried on and payments made, and what pecuniary interest or session of an officer in sympathy with him, I am not sure bnt that he vested rights the United States had connected with such prosecutions in said might possibly conceive it to be not wholly compatible with the pub State courts. lic interest to disclose anything that would be damaging to the party Mr. EDMUNDS. While I am looking at this modification, I wish in power, while he might think it would be compatible with the pub to say that it is not nearly so clear to my mind as it appears to be to lic interest to communicate anything that would be detrimental-to the that of my friend from Missouri, that the Attorney-General of the one that has been displaced. I do not say that would be the case, but United States, or the head of any Department who is authorized to it is among the possibilities that if there could be any partisan aspect make use of the service of district attorneys in defending the interests given to this inquiry under the present administration, compatibility of the United States, is limited by law to cases that exist in the Fed~ with the public interest might be held to apply exclusively to objec eral courts. Cases frequently arise, and have from the foundation of tionable practices under a Republican administration, and not under the Government, in the State courts, where as to our foreign relations one that was Democratic. the honor and the interest and the safety of the United States demand _ :Ur. VEST. We have heard from time to time in a very aggressive, that its legal representatives, its counsel, its district attorneys, its Attor~ not to say sneering, manner that ''this reform administration'' proposed ney-General, should appear in the State court to defend that action or to do so and so. It is a remarkable fact that whenever an attempt is prosecution in order to preserve what the honor and the duty of the made to find out whether there is any difference between former ad United States may require in such cases. That occasionally happens. ministrations and this reform administration, all sorts of technical ob The same is true in respect of cases where officers of the United States jections are intervened at once in order to prevent inquiry. are sued in State courts for things that they have done in the 11er~ In order to show that all ~ ask in this case is a simple exhibit of the formance of their duty. If these officers have done those things in the 1_887 .. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. performance of. their duty, they are entitled to be defended by the steamer, from Charleston, S. C., to Havana-, Cuba, via Savannah, Ga., United States, of course; and in order to be defendeQ. there are two and Key West, Fla., from the 1st of October, 1859, to the 20th of July, ways that are open to them by law-either to employ counsel them 1860. selves, or to report the case to the proper Department and have the Mr. GRAY. I ask for the reading of the report, which explains the proper Department undertake to defend, which is better, because then case. you know you are going to have a good defense and one that is not a The Secretary read the following report, submitted by Mr. GRAY sham. If that case is in the State court and the Department chooses June 30, 1886:· to take up the defense it can do so. It must go into the State court in The Committee on Claims, t~ whom was referred Senate bill 933, having ex- the first instance, and having gone there it has two courses to pursue. amined the same, submit the following report: . It can ask to have the case removed under the removal statute, or if it At the first session of the Forty-seventh Congress the Committee on Post Offices and Post-Roads made areport in this case, which this committee adopts, believes the State court will try it rightly, wisely, and fairly, then and and is as follows: · there, it may go on then and there. "That in the year 1848 M. C. Mordecai and others were the owners of tho So, then, although it has nothing to do with the present question of steamer Isabel, a steamship built with reference t~ and for the purpose of carry ing the United States mails from Charleston, S.C., tria. Savannah, Ga., and Key getting information, to which I have not the least objection, I am not West, Fla., to Havana, in the Island of Cuba; that from 1848 to 1859 the said M. at all clear that there may not be a case-I do not know whether this C. Mordecai, under a contract with the Postmaster-General and by authority of is one or not-where it is not only proper and necessary but legal that Congress carried said mails to and from the above-named points for the con tract price of 850,000 P,er annum, except for the last five years of said term, for the counsel for the United States, whether district attorney or special which they were patd $60,000 per annum; that prior t~ the expiration of said counsel or whatever, may be sent to represent the United States or contract, to wit, March, 1859, provision was made, as in former years, in the some of its Departments in the courts of a State. Post-office appropriation bill, for a. renewal of contract, but the entire bill failed to pass both Houses, and Congress adjourned without making any provisions Mr. VEST. I acknowledge to some extent the statement of the Sen whatever for the support of the mail service of the country. ator that a defense of the interests of the United State requires that "At the expiration of his contract, June 30, 1859, M. C. 1\!ord.ecai ceased carry Government officials, district attorneys and others, shall defend parties ing .said mails, because of the failure of the passage of the usual appropriation for 1ts support. who are acting for the Government, although that fact does not appear " After the lapse of three months, namely, on October 1, 1859. at the earnest of record. Thatwould beacaseexactlypertinent; butthiscasewasnot solicitation of the public, through petitions and appeals from the boards of trade, that sort of a litigation. Nothing of that sort was involved. Judge chambers of commerce, and merchants ofall the principal Atlantic seaports, said M. C. Mordecai was induced, with the knowledge and consent of the PostrOffiee Lawrence refused to pay a district attorney $500 and other fees because Department, to resume the carrying of said mails, intending, as stated in the the district attorney at the same time was drawing salary and per memorial before your committee, to look to the subsequent a~tion of Congress diem for constructive attendance on court. That was not the case of a for compensation, the Postmaster-General not being authorized t~ contract for any compensation further than the ocean and inland postages, which were en receiver or any quasi-officer of the United States, but it was a case in tirely inadequate to compensate for t,he service xendered. which the parties went to the State courts and attended to litigation " The evidence is abundant that the mails were carried regularly on said there, and then charged a special fee for it, and drew their salaries at steamer twice a month, from October 1,1859, to July 20,1860, for which no com pensation of any kind was received from any source. the same time as district attorneys. "In the Pos~ffice deficiency bill of 1860provision was made by the House for I would suggest that the resolution be amended so as to cover both a renewal of the former contract, and also for compensation for the service per civil and criminal cases. formed as aforesaid without contract. This latter provision passed the House on a. test vote by 115 to 60. In the Senate the entu-e paragraph was stricken Mr. EDMUNDS. I understand that the case referred to was a civil out, and the Postmaster-General authorized to advertise in ihe usual manner cause, something about taxes, and I was just about to call attention to and let the contract to the lowest bidder. This was done, and the petitioner that point. wasagainawardedthecontrad,at$4.0,000perannumfortheservicefromCharles ton to Key West, and the ocean and inland postages for that part from Key As the resolution is modified it is still so broad that it would call for West to Havana. By the alterations thus made in the Senate, provision for the an account of any money paid for secret service in any criminal prose service from October 1,1859, to July 20, 1860, was omitted, but at the next ensu cution. The Senator does not mean that; he means to ask as to money ing session of Congress a bill was reported from the Committee on Post-Offices and Post,. Roads allowing the petitioner compensation for said service at the paid to officers of the United States, and therefore I suggest to him, rate of the last contract. On account of the disturbed condition of the country after the word "indirectly," at the end of line 3, to inserb "by officers nt that time, this bill never received consideration at the hands of Congress, of the United States," and then in the next line insert .. civil," so as and the petitioner, notwithstanding repeated efforts, hast~ this dayreceivedno sort of compensation for said sexvice. to read: In view of all the evidence presented, it appears that the service upon this Ruolved by the Sena~ of the United States, That the Secretary of the Tt·easury route had become .a. most important. branch of the mail service of the country, furnish to this body a. full nnd complete statement, by itemized account, of all and the petitioner exhibited great liberality and contributed largely t~ the pub money paid out for or on account, directly or indirectly, to officers of the United lic convenience by yielding to the solicitat-ions of the public and continuing the States in the prosecution of civil or criminal causes in State courts by Federal service in all its efficiency as had been done when under contract., and your officials, &c. committee are of the opinion that he is equitably and properly entitled to receive compensation therefor at the rate at wh1ch the contract was renewed when let t~ the lowest bidder after public.advertisement, namely, at the rate of $40,000 1 In that way I ha\e no objection if the Senator desires the passage of per annum for the service from Charleston to Key West, and the ocean and in the resolution. land postages from Key West to Havana. · Mr. VEST. Yes, sir. For nine months and twenty days, the period covered by said service, at the The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The resolution will be so modified, rate of 840,000 per annum, would amount to 832,222.22, and the postages from Key West to Havana, computed upon the basis of the succeeding contract, and the call for the yeas and nays is withdrawn, as also the motion to $5.769.73; total, $37,991.95. · , tefer. The question is on agreeing to the resolution as modified. Your committee therefore report the accompanying bill providing for the pay The resolution as modified was agreed to. ment of the above-named amount, with the recommendation that it do pass. The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered to 1\I, C. MORDECAI. be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, and passed. The PRESIDENT pro tempo1·e. There being no fw·ther ''concurrent or other resolutions," the morning business is closed. HE~TRY H. SffiLEY. Mr. CULLOM:. I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration 1\Ir. MAHONE. I ask the Senator from illinois to yield to me. of the conference report on the interstate-commerce bill. Mr. CULLOM. The Senator from Virginia asked me yesterday to The motion was agreed to. yield, and I declined. He has a bill also that he says will take no time The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agreeing to the beyond a moment or two. I shallnotobject,·with the reservation that report of the committee of conference. if the matter he wishes to call up leads to discussion I shall insist on Mr. GRAY. Before that report is taken up, I ask the consent of the the regular order. · Senator from illinois to call up a bill on the Calendar which I do not Mr. MAHONE. I move to take up Calendar Ko. 1624, being the think will lead to any discussion whatever. bill (S. 909} for the relief of Henry H. Sibley. Mr. CULLOM. If the bill involves no discussion, I have no objec Mr. INGALLS. Let it be read at length for information. tion to yielding; but I am very anxions that the consideration of the The Chief Clerk read the bill, with the amendment of the Committee interstate-commerce bill shall be proceeded with to-day without inter on Claims, which was to strike out all after the enacting clause and ruption. I yield to the Senator from Delaware, with the understanding insert: that there will be no debate on his bill. That the Court of Claims is hereby empowered to hear the claim of Henry H . .Mr. GRAY. The Senator from Illinois can reserve his right, if the Sibley, and to proceed with the same in accordance with the provisions of the bill leads to debate, to call for the regular order. act approved March 3, 1883, entitled "An act to afford assistance and relief to Congress and the Executive Departments in the investigation of claims and de Mr. CULLOM:. I yield to allow the bill to be taken up, with the mands against the Government,, and to report to Congress the facts in the ease, reservation that I shall call for the regular order if the bill leads to dis and the amount of the claim, and the time when the claim or any parts thereof cussion. accrued, and any facts bearing upon the question whether the bar of the statute Mr. GRAY. I ask consent to proceed to the consideration of Order of limitations should be removed, or which shall be claimed t~ excuse the of Business 1619, being the bill (S. 933). claimant for not having resorted to the Court of Claims. By unanimous consent, the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, pro Mr. MAHONE. I move to amend by striking out all after the en ceeded to consider the bill (S. 933) for the relief of M. C. Mordecai. It acting clause and inserting what I send to the Chair. Since the bill provides for the payment to M. C. :Mordecai, or his legal representa was introduced the principal named in the bill is dead, and it is neces tives, of $37,991.95, in full compensation for all services rendered in sary to make an alteration.. I offer this amendment with the approval carrying the United States mail in the steamer Isabel. or any other of the Senator who reported the bill. 602 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 13,
The Chief Clerk read the amendment, which was to strike out all from Illinois to move that the Senate agree to the report of the com after the word " that," and insert: mittee of conference, at the very beginning. The Court of Claims is authorized to adjudicate the claim of the legal personal M:r. CULLOM. I think that motion has precedence over any other representatives of Henry H. Sibley, deceased, growing out of a. contract made motion, unless it may be to commit. by Henry H. Sibley in his lifetime with the Government of the United States for the use of a. patented invention in the manufacture of a. tent known as the :Mr. HAI<.RIS. Mr. President, without any motion the question Sibley tent: and that for this purpose the Court of Claims shall have jurisdic- pending upon a report of a committee of conference is, Will the Senate tion, notwithstanding any bar of th? statute of limitations. . . agree to the report ? • SEc. 2. That either party to any smt that may be brought under the prOVlSlons of this act shall have the right of appeal to the Supreme Court of the United The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair has already announced St-ates from any final judgment the Court of Claims may render. that he would consider the question. The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. Mr. HARRIS. Whether the Senator from Illinois made such mo The amendment as amended was agreed to. tion or not, that was the question; no motion was necessary. When The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the amendment the Senate has acted on that question, if it disagrees, Of course it will was concurred in. . then be in order, if any Senator chooses to do so, to move that the Sen The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, rend the third ate farther insist and ask for a further conference; but the motion now time, and passed. in the form that the Senator from Massachusetts proposes it, is in the On motion of Mr. HOAR, the title was amended so as to read: first branch of it simply to present the same question in another form A bill for the relief of the legal representatives of Henry H. Sibley. as the question which is already pending before the Senate, "Will the Senate agree or disagree to this report?'' When that question has first MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE. been decided, then it will be for the Senate to_determine whether it A message from the House of Representatives, by Mr. CLARK, its will further insist and ask for a further conference, or recognize the fact Clerk. announced that the House had passed the bill (S. 10) to amend that this action is the final defeat of the bill. an act entitled "An act to amend section 5352 of the Revised Statutes :,I desire to say upon that point, while I am on my feet, that from o. of the United States in reference t<> bigamy, and for other purposes," two weeks' experience, almost daily, in that committee of conference, approved :M:arch 22, 1882, with an amendment; in which it requested I am satisfied and absolutely confident that the disagreement on the the concurrence of the Senate. part of the Senate to this report is the final defeat of legislation upon The message also announced that the House had passed the following the subject during this Congress. I am absolutely confident that we bills; in which it re~uested the concurrence of the Senate: can never more nearly approximate the views of the Senate with respect A bill (H. R. 2879) to authorize the service of civil and criminal pro to this legislation by any subsequent or additional conference with the cess issued by Territorial courts within military and Indian reservations House than we have already done, and I desire that every Senator on and the Yellowstone National Park; this floor shall realize and recognize the fact that when he votes upon A bill (H. .R. 5577) to provide that a judgment in the circuit court the question of agreeing or disagreeing to this report he is substantially of the United States, upon an interest coupon of a bond by a munici and in effect voting upon the question as to whether we shall or shall pal corporation shall not be conclusive in a question on the bond when not have legislation upon this question during this Congress, for such the amount gives jurisdiction to the Supreme Court on appeal; and is, in my opinion, the inevitable effect of a disagreement to this report. A bill (H. R. 10658) to change the lines between the eastern and Mr. HOAR. :Mr. President, I suppose the mere method of putting west em j udicia.l districts of North Carolina. this question is of trifling importance. Both these motions are motions ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. that are in order-the motion to disagree, insist, and ask a further con ference, and the motion to concur. I do not understa.nd that the The message further announced that the Speaker of the House had motion to concur or agree has been made, but undoubtedly whether it signed the follo~g enrolled bills; and they were thereupon signed by has been or not it can be, and if it be-- the President pro tempore: The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Chair is informed by the princi A bill (H. R. 6313) to release unto the city of San Antonio, Tex., pal officeiS at the desk, who are most likely to remember a matter of for its use as a public thoroughfare, certain portions of the military res that kind, that when the report was first made there was a motion ervation near said city; and made by the Senator from Illinois [.Mr. CULLOM] to agree to or concur A bill (H. R. 7192) to provide a school of instruction for cavalry and in the report. light artillery, and for the construction and completion of quarters, bar Mr. HOAR. That will depend on the Journal, of course. Ifitwas racks, and stables at certain posts for the use of the Army of the United made, it was journalized. !fit was not journalized it was not made. States. · But it is utterlyunimportant. Undoubtedlyatwhatever time the mo INTERSTATE COl\DIERCE. tion to concur is made, whether made at the time of making thereport Mr. CULLOM. Now I insist on the regular order. or made at the time of putting the question, it will take precedence The Senate resumed the consideration of the report of the committee under the customs of the Senate of this motion of mine. The impor of conference upon the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the bill tance of this motion now is that the Senate may have before it what is (S. 1532) to regulate commerce. proposed as the next step, supposing the motion to concur should fail. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on agre.eing to the There are a great many motions, it is not necessary to say to the Chair, report of the conference committee. • which may be pending at the same time, but which have a due order Mr. CULLOM. The report has not yet' been read to the Senate in of preference in putting t1tem. So there is no substantial difference full. If there are no further remarks to be made, I ask for the read between the Senator from Tennessee and myself. ing of the report, as I suppose that is necessary. I wish, however, to say one word, without add.ressing myself at this The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The report of the conference coru time to the general merits of the bill, in regard to the statement made mi ttee will be read. by my honorable friend from Tennessee. The Chief Clerk read the report, which has been heretofore published Here is a bill which embodies four great salutary propositions upon in the RECORD. which the Senate, the House of Representatives, and the American peo Mr. HOAR. I move that the Senate disagree to the report of the ple are substantially agreed. First, that the principle of the common conference committee, insist upon ita former action passing the original law, which it has been held does not belong to the jurisprudence of the bill, and request a further conference. · United States without special legislation, shall be extended to the The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Tho Senator from Massachusetts common carriers of the country who are engaged in commerce among submits a motion, which will be read. the States or with foreign nations. Second, that there shall be a com Mr. HOAR. The motion is in writing. mission who shall investigate, report, and to some extent direct the Mr. CULLOM. I believe, under the rule, the question must be on conduct of that business. Third, that hereafter the doctrine of reason the motion to concur. ableness shall prevail by the ay.thority of the statute of the United The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The motion made by the Senator States between the carrier and the customer in fixing rates. Fourth, fi·om Massachusetts will be read. that there shall be no undue discrimination between persons or places The Chief Clerk read as follows: or classes of business in the conduct of the great carrying tralle of the That the Senate disagree to the report of the conference committee, insist country. And the committee having this bill in charge come in and upon its former action passing the bill, and request a. further conference. hold over our heads a threat that no one of these things, so salutary The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Illinois, the Chair and so desirable, shall be accomplished, but that we shall remain with understands, has already made the motion that the Senate concur. out legislation unle...
/ /
1887. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 605
that legislation; but the court, as it rightfully could do, said there were livery. He undertakes to make a. contract with a person engaged in the carry ing business at the end of this route from whence the goods are to start, and he other grave considerations in that legislation, as there were, and that this is told by the carrier, " I am free to make a. fair and reasonable contract for this matter, at first not sufficiently adverted to, deserved consideration. carriage to the line of the State of Illinois, but when the car which carries these At any rate, they entered into an exposition to ~how that they could goods is to cross the line of that State, pursuing at the same time this contin uous track, I am met by a. law of Illinois which forbids me to make a. free con not have been profitably engaged in a support of such a regulation of tract concerning this transportation within that State, and subjects me to cer State commerce by their decision in the granger cases, because the pre- tain rules by which I am to be governed as to the charges which the same rail road company in lllinois may make, or has made, with reference to other per vious decisions of the court in other matters had really laid down the sons and other places of delivery." · So that while that carrier might be willing rule. It is under that exposition that I call attention to the present to carry these goods from the city of New York to the city of Peoria at the rate situation of the authorities on the subject. The court says, in there of 15 cents per hundred pounds, he is not permitted to do so, because the Illi cent case from Illinois: nois railroad company has already charged at the rate of 25 cents per hundred pounds for carriage to Gilman, in lllinois, which is 86 miles shorter than the dis The case of the State Freight Tax (15 Wall., 232), which was decided only tance to Peoria.. four years before these cases- So, also in the present case, the owner of corn, the principal product of the Referring to the Granger cases- country, desiring to transport it from Peoria, in lllinois, to New York, finds a railroad company willing to do this at the rate of 15 cents per pundred pounds held an act of the Legislature of Pennsylvania. void, as being in conflict with for a car-load, but is compelled to pay at the rate of 25 cent-s per hundred pounds, the commerce clause of the C-onstitution of the United States, which levied a. because the railroad company has received from a. person residing in Gilman tax upon all freight carried through the St.ate by any railroad company, or into 25 cents per hundred pounds for the transportation of a car-load of the same it from any other State, or out of it into any other State, and valid as to all freight class of freight over the ~me line of road from Gilman to New York. This is the carriage of which was begun and ended within the limits of the State, be the result of the statute of lllinois, in its endeavor to prevent unjust discrimina cause the former was a regulation of interstate commerce, and the latter was a tion, as construed by the supreme court of that State. The effect of it is that, commerce solely within the State which it had a right to regulate. .And the whatever may be the rate of transportation per mile charged by the railroad question now under consideration, whether these statutes were of a class which company from Gilman to Sheldon, a distance ot 23 miles, in which the loading the Legislatures of the States could enact in the absence of any net of Oongress and the unloading of the freight is the largest expense incurred by the railroad on the subject, was considered and decided in the negative. company, the same rate per mile must be charged from Peoria to the city of It is impossible- New York. The obvious injustice of such a. rule as this, which railr<>ad companies are by And here is the point- heavy penalties compelled to conform t<>, in regard to commerce among the It is impossible to see any distinction in its effect upon commerce of either States, when applied to transportation which includes Illinois in a. long line of class, between a statute which regula.tes the charges for transportation, and a carriage through several States, shows the value of the constitutional provision statute which levies a tax tor the benefit of the State upon the same transporta which confides the power of regulating interstate commerce to the Oongress of tion; and in fact the judgment of the court in the State Freight Tax case rested the United States, whose enlarged view of the interests of all tLe States, and of upon the ground that the tax was always added to the cost of transportation, the railroa-ds concerned, better fits it to establish just and equitable rules. and thus was a tax in effect upon the privilege of carrying the goods through the State. It. is also very difficult to believe that the court consciously intended 1\Ir. President, all that I insist upon here is a determination upon two to overrule the first of these cases without any reference to it in the opinion. points, not only by the authority of this dispassionate examination, but What is the statute of Illinois that is brought up for judgment under upon the great and as I think irresistible reasoning on which this de these constitutional arrangements in the last determination of the court? cision rests, that legislation of this kind by the States is a burden on I read still from the opinion of the court: commerce. It produces inequality. It is inconsistent with equality and justice. And nowifwetransport the same measure into Congres The l:mguage of the statute which is supposed to be violated by thiil transac tion is to be found in chapter 114 of the Revised Statutes of lllinois, section 126. sional legislation, it does not alter its nature or its inequality or its in It is there enacted that if any railroad corporation shall charge, collect, er re justice-! mean its inequality and its injustice as to its operation in its ceive for the transportation of any passenger or freight of any description upon own sphere-and therefore I in\oke the Congress of the United Stat~ ita railroad, for any distance within the State, the same or a greater amount of toll or compensation t.han is at the same time charged, collected, or received for by a chain of argument to determine whether it has power to burden the transportation in the same direction of any passenger or like qua.ntity of commerce among the States upon motives that produce this disparity, freight of the same class over a. greater distance of the same road, all such dis this distinction in the freedom of commerce, in the rates and expenses criminating rates, charges, collections, or receipts, whether made directly or by means of rebate, drawback, or other shift or evasion, shall be deemed and that commerce itself must bear. ' taken against any such railroad corporation as prima facie evidence of unjust I agree that the submission of this power to the Federal Government discrimination prohibited by the provisions of this act. The statute further is a denial to the States. I will not disguise the general interest and provides a penalty of not over $5,000 for that offense, and also that the party aggrieved shall have a right to recover three times the amountof dama.gessus influence upon the action of the Federal Government in Congress that tained, with costs and attorneys' fees. may be considered protected; but what I say is that when a mea<~ure The court holds that all arrangements regarding that portion that is introduced in Congress that has not the motive, nor the occasion, operates to burden commerce are obnoxious to the protective clause of nor the tendency to promote commerce in its equality, commerce in its the Constitution of the United States, and that in whatever form the foreign relations, commerce inequalityandin absolute non-discrimina ' States may assume to exercise their influence, if it affects the burden, tion, in that it is doing a thing that is denied to the States, and the then it is condemned as much as if a tax was laid on transportation as same reasons argue that it should be denied to the Federal Govern it was to pass from one State to another. ment. Now, letus.seehowthejudgmentoftheSupreme Court of the United Commerce is what the people who made the Constitution understood States operates upon this specific form of State legislation which I have commerce, no matter what the appliances and vehicles and methods of cited. The court proceed: prosecution might be. They might not foresee the steam-cars or the electric telegraph, but they could see that freedom and equality for the The applicability of this language people of the United States were more permanent and more useful than Citing from a former decision- any modifications of the vehicles or the methods of intercourse of com The applicability of thls language to the case now under consideration, of a. continuous transportation of goods from New York to Oentral Illinois, or from merce or of transportation. They lodged this securely._ The com the latter to New York, is obvions, and it is not easy to see bow any distinction merce clause was not to be used as the instrument and under the power can be made. Whatever may be the instrumentalities by which this transporta of other motives than those which stimulate and help, invigorate, and tion fi·om the onepointt<> the other is effected, it is but one voyage, as much so as maintain and secure the freedom and equality of commerce. that of the steamboat on the Miss~ippi River. It is not the railroads them selves that are regulated by this act. of the Illinois Legislature so much as the Mr. President, if I am at all correct in these views of the clauses charge for transportation, and, in language just cited if each one of the States which I shall attempt to expose in their true character, and not with any through whose territories these goods are transported can fix its own rules for prices, for modes of transit, for times and modes of delivery, and a.ll the other view of denunciation or exaggeration, then this would be unconstitu- . incidents of transportation to which the word "regulation" can be applied it tionallegislation; and if it came up to the Supr~me Court of the United is readily seen that the embarrassments upon interstate transportation, as an eie States and the court did not retrace its reasoning! even if it did notre ment of interstate commerce, might be too oppressive to be submitted to. "It was," in the language of the court cited above, "to meet just such a case that trace its decision, it would either be obliged to hold as a proposition of the commerce clause of the O<>nstitutionwas adopted." constitutional law tha.t these discriminations and favoritisms among the It rutn not be too strongly insisted upon that the right of continuous transpor States were not committed to the Federal Government. or to decide tation from one end of the country t<> the other is essential in modern times to that freedom of commerce from the restraints which the States might choose to that it had the power to be restrained, restricted, modulated, and made impose upon it, that the commerce clause was intended to secure. This clause, consonant with these great interests of freedom and equality on the giving to Oongress the power to regulate commerce among the States, and with mere discretion of Congress, and that it could establish custom-houses foreign nations, as this court bas said before, was among the most important of between the States and have a tariff by which under the regulation of the subjects which prompted the formation of the Constitution. Oook tiS. Penn sylvania, 97 United States,574; Brown 'VB. Maryland, 12 Wheaton, 446 . .And it commerce between the States you could have your duties .and your im would be a very feeble and almost useless provision, but poorly adapted to se ports on the passage of commerce from one State to another. cure the entire freedom of commerce among the States which was deemed essen tial to a more perfect union by the framers of the C-onstitution, if at every stage Indeed, the court, rather than maint-ain such a proposition of law as of the transportation of goods and chattels through the country, the State within that, would prefer to .find in the distinct phrases of the Constitution an whose limits a part of this transportation must be done could impose regula abundant protection of State intercourse and freedom under this posi tions concerning the price, compensation, or taxation, or any other restrictive regulation interfering with and seriously embarrassing this commerce. tive regulation: No tax or duty shall be laid on articles- But to be more particular in dissecting this provision astolong haul and short haul when practiced by a State, let us see precisely what is Not in the phrase of the Constitution, "exported from the United the degree of interference with the transportation of property or per States," but it reads- sons from one State to another, which this statute proposes: No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported fr<>m any State• .A citizen of New York has goods which he desires to have trans.Ported by the That breadth of application was essential. It was not to be pre railroad companies from that city to the interior of the State of Illinois. .A con tinuous line of rail over which a car loaded with these goods can be carried, sumed that a tax of export from Massachusetts to New York could be and is carried habitually, connects the place of shipment with the place of de· inflicted by the Federal Government, and it was not necessary to define
. '
606 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. JANUARY 13,
it. Although the matter of commerce was present and controlling, if untrammeled, and thatitsjusticeand universal prosperity as commerce you please, it would not use a restriction which said, "No tax or duty shall be in itself and adjust itself to one of its vehicles as it would to shall be imposed on an export from the United States," but no duty other vehicles, at one time the only vehicles of commerce, I mean the shall be imposed on the exportation from any State. foreign shipping and the domestic steamboat navigation of this country. Why is it, with a general concurrence on the part of the people of the So to me, if I could tolerate the propriety of the arraignment of rail United States, on the part, if you please, of great commercial interests, road managers and railroad systems which has been pressed on the at to a considerable extent, even upon the part of the railroads, that there tention of Congress, I should be obliged to say that all of it is out of is a readiness to accept the general frame of this bill, although some place, unless you find, indeed, reasons which in the promotion of com may doubt its expediency? Some may doubt, perhaps, in some of its merce should lead to a regulation not of railroads as distingr..ised from details its constitutionality, but they are rea.dy to accept and esteem as commerce, but of commerce operating upon railroads as vehicles of capable of trial, and an expectation of benefit that will not need any commerce. particular modification, all the clauses which make up the general The Chamber of Commerce has been for a period of years observant frame of the bill, and which, as I think, in the minds of the people upon railroad schemes and purposes and their execution, hostile, inter have been the principal inducement to desire its enactment. fering with them, desiring the authority of the State of New York to Why is it that when we depart from this general regulation of com be exercised in their regulation and restraint, and operating in com mel'ce in the interest of commerce by its own motives and by its own mercial influence always towa1·d the equality and cheapening of trans laws, and with equality and freedom toward all the people of the United portation. It approves the general frame of this proposed act, its pro Stat.es, we are ready to accept this frame of supervision, and yet when visions against discriminations, against unreasonable rates, against we come to the fourth and fifth sections we find them to be repugnant undue preferences or advantages, and it approves of that portion ofthe to the interest, and the dearest interest, of the people of this country? measure which gi•es vigor to the execution of these saluta1·y arrange I submit to the sincere examination of the Senate that the regula ments. It no longer leaves the single shipper, no longer leaves the tions of the bill beside the fourth and the fifth sections are regulations single manufacturer, no..longer leaves the single trade of one kind of of commerce, in the motives of commerce, in the promotion of com commercial business to deal with this whole interest; but invigorates merce, in the advancement of equality and without discrimination the arm of resistance to these destructive agencies, so that by the au either between States or among pursuits, or between remote and near thority of this commission and by the authority of the courts, in the arrangements of population and situation of States; and because sub name of the public interest and at the expense of the public interest stantially it adheres to and follows the phrases which were common to all the redress that law call give may be furnished for the benefit of the experience of the law as it was understood and explained when the commerce. Constitution was adopted, and are still explained and construed now; What, then, does the Chamber of Commerce of New York say on and that is, as the fundamenta.l rule, that charges shall be reasonable these two sections? It is their opinion, it is not the opinion of rail and equal, "without discrimination, without rebate"-! am quoting road people, but their opinion, judging of commerce, with which they, the lunguage of the proposed statute-" without undne preference or as the representatives of the constituents of the vast commerce of that atlvantage;'" that the measure is to be extended all over this network city, have to do. They look at railroads only as bearing on the free of railroad intercommunication and does not touch and does not bear dom, equality, and development of commerce; and whatever they say upon one spot or upon another; it does not bear upon one product of criticisms that shall operate upon railroads is only in the light of how or upon another; it does not touch one neighborhood or another. It it will operate upon that center of this vast circumference that is to does not make a difference. It is the same rule, the same law, the converge in the greatportofNewYork for the distribution of commerce. . same application, and the same interpretation for these commissioners In that way they look at it. Could there ever be a larger view of the upon these rules of justice and equality, and nothing more. subject taken? Could there ever be one that would so effectually Butwhen yon come to the question in the fourth section, so grave, so trample down and efface all trivial discrimination of the advantage of interesting, if yon please, the occasion of so much irritation, produc this railroad or that railroad line? I submit to the Senate that the ing so much injustice, producing so much resentment, inducing so much judgment of men situated as these are is not to be discarded unless eftort to cure, it is no longer re.,oulated by the rules of commerce and they are willing to substitute their own willfulness on the matter and its motives, but is a positive regulation, not a conformity of commerce meet the question of its disturbance with the affairs of this country · to what is reasonable, but a determination in the Senate and in the after it shall occur, if it shall occur, with this clear notice in a calm and House of Representatives of the United States of what is a rule and respectful presentation of the subject which proceeds from this great regol:l.tion of railroad transportation. In other words, all of this bill, center of commercial interest and anthoritv. except the fourth and fifth sections, properly belongs to the sphere of The report of that committee of the chamber of commerce, at my sug law-making. Wise or unwise, discreet or circumspect or deficient, it gestion, was printed in the RECORD several days ago. No doubt it has all belongs to the sphere of law-making. When you come to these two been examined by Senators. If desired, it can be examined by all. I sections you' depart from law-making and lay down rates and rules of quote from that report the following passages: transportation not governed by the laws or interests of commerce or Your committee are of opinion that (section 4) the prohibition io charge more transportation. for a shorter haul than a longer one is objectionable and certain to work against Before I enter upon any presentation of my own views of these two the public welfu.re. If enacted, it would ..Io little good to any one. Local rates would not be thereby reduced, but "through traffic," which, on the average, sections as impediments to free commerce and burdens upon free trans furnishes not to exceed one-quarter of the revenues of the trunk lines, would be portation, I ask attention to the judgment of business men, commer either refused, or raised to a standard of local rates-thus obstructing and ma cial men, in the interest and in the views of interstate commerce and terially decreasing the moving and exportation of cotton, gra.in, petroleum, and other products. Upon the utmost freedom in making through contracts from of foreign commerce, and also of manufacturers and the dissemination the West to the seaboard depends the development of the entire West and its of manufactures as well as in the dissemination of the trade products farming lands. The gigantic results already witnessed, due to the fortuitous ofthe soil. combinations of railroads and wat~r transportation, and the ability to carry this through traffic for trifiing additional cost, and so far at very moderate rates In the first place, I can not at least be indifferent, and I should hope of freight, has produced a wealth to the whole nation so far exceeding any pos that no Senator could be indifferent, to a deliberate, calm, and reason sible local benefits to be gained by the proposed prohibition as to forbid its able view presented by so great a body as the Chamber of Commerce of consideration. Nor is this provision necessary to v.rotect the local resident from imposition; his remedy is provided in the bill,qwteindependentofthetbrough the city of New York. New York, whatever may be said of other por traffic. If a local rate is unjust it must be remedied; but the consideration tions of this country, is not domineered over by railroads. We have thereof must depend upon the particular surroundings and circumstances of other interests in New York, and our interests in the mass are gener that individual case, and not upon that of others further on the line, who may have competing roads, water transportation, and many other things affecting alJy hostile to what is the specific and single interest of railroads. It rates offreigbt not at all applicable to the case in question. One immediate and is in vain to talk of the action of a body charged with foreign com inevitable effect of such a. prohibition would be to divert most important vol merce, charged with the cheapening of transportation, hostile to en umesoffreigbtto competingCanadia.n roads running to the seaboard. As to section o, your committee is also of opinion that the absolute prohibition hancement, hostile to discrimination, hostile to oppression, and to put against pooling is unwise, and much more likely to work injuriously to the pub their judgment down as if it proceeded in the interest ofthe railroads. lic than beneficially. If it be considered, it will be evident that most if not all Let me say here for myself, not only from the propositions I have of the evils of unequal rates, discriminations, and partiality have arisen from unrestricted competition, the only result aimed at by the proposed prohibition, stated, that I regard it as a question of commerce directly and in rela while a uniform tariff between all competing lines, arranged upon planes of tion to railroads only as bearing upon the interests of commerce. I equity to all shippers, and enforced by an agreed volume of tonnage apportioned have no interest, I have no relations, I have no bias in mind, but I can to each road, is the very end to be accomplished by the bill itself-and this is "pooling." Its actual operation has been to do away with discriminations not fail to see the discrimination which these sections are to produce against individuals and localities; it has secured greater uniformity of rates; upon commerce. They may injure railroads for aught I know; they it has been found of ~rea.ter advantage to shippers to deal with a "pool" com may cripple them for aught I 1.-now. Not that end should I favor missioner, representmg all the trunk-lines, than to be compelled to confer with to many officials in detail-as instanced in the late dry-goods classification agree them; not to that end has the Constitution conferred any such power ment-its existence bas secured a. steadily decreasing average rate of freight, on Congress; but if it should injure, if it should cripple, it will be be which has developed during tbewholeperiodof"pooling." In general the sys tem seems to have been productive of good to the public, and in many instances cause it injures and cripples commerce and nothing else. where injustice has arisen it has been from lack of good faith to keep its condi Strangulation of commerce for the purpose of constriction on railroads tions on the part of the common carrier. While, on the other lland, its ten would be the merest folly in the world. If railroads have any distinct dency bas been to avoid disastrous railroad wars, entailing upon the investors serious loss, and always productive of disastrous effects upon the laboring classes and selfiBh and sordid (if you please to use the word) interest in this and the commerce of the country. matter of transportation, it is that commerce shall be developed and not For these reasons this committee would urge that any action looking to pro restrained, that its volume shall be increased, that its freedom shall be hibition of pooling be at least deferred, and the subject referred {as was origi- I I _
1887. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 607
nally proposed by the Senate bill on this subject) to the commission to be estnt: with great calmness and with great pertinency which have led them lished by this bill, for full investigation, report, and suggest~d legislation, if they deem any needed, in the future. to these conclusions; but these topics are appended, to which I ask your It is true that the framers of this bill, evidently fearing the strict operation of attention: section 4 (as it regards the long a nd short haul), have lodged the discretion with Allow us, a.lso, in Passil?g, to remind you of the fact. that, of the .entire mem the commissioners to limit or suspend, after investigation, its operation in cer bership of the MinneapoliS Board of Trade, representmg all leadmg branches tain cases. And if it be w ise to confide to them so great a power, it can not be of legitimate business and productive industry, not half a dozen have anyfecu unreasonable to leave the whole subject (affect~d by sections 4 and 5) to them niary interest in railroads, direct or indirect• . and we do not know of hal t~t and their discretion, w h ich w ould be the case were no clauses of this character number who are so interested. The board speaks for the producers and ship contained in th e bill. U any discrimination of an unjust character arises, the pers of the Northwest.. Further, it is fully rec?gnize~ that national supervision commissioners are fully vested with power to investigate and correct the same, of our railway system IS necessa ry and best, m the mterest both of the people and this seems to be all that is required at present, a.nd until more experience and of the rail ways themselves; that this supervision has already been too long is gained by t he commission. delayed· that there are wrongs to be righted and corporate abuses to be c~r To this chamber the public are largely indebted for the investigation of the rected a'nd that the pending interstate-commerce bill, when duly amended, Will Hepburn committee, which led to t he appointment of the railroad commission constitute a wise first step in the right direction. of this State. This commission bas proved eminently satisfactory both to the public and the railroads, and has performed great public service. * * • * * * * The experience of our State railroad commission should furnish a valuable Assuming that the section means what its language naturally imports, the guide and precedent for the larger and more important duties of an interstate consequence of enforcing such a. law would, we believe, be grayely injurious to commission. When a Jaw was passed creating a railroad commission in this many important interests in all parts of the country, but espeCially would such State the powers and duties of the State commission were largely advisory. enforcement prove destructive in its effect upon the great agricultural section This chamber was of the opinion that the powers of this commission were too of which our own State forms so important a part. limited, but experience has demonstra.ted that the law was wise and salutarr. It would very greatly increas~ the cost to our p~ople. of he9:vy comm~dities The advice of the commission to the railroad managers has been followed 1n of all kinds which are brought m from eastern sectiOns, mcluding coal, w1thout most instances, in spirit if not in letter. Publicity and public opinion ha':e which our prairie farms could not be occupied. satisfactorily supplied the place of mandatory provisions of the law in thlS It would ruinously depreciate the value of every bushel of wheat and every pound of beef produced in. Minnesota by compe~lin~ the railro~s to adopt a State. freight tariff on through shipments eastward, which, if not prol:rib1tory, would I have also papers from other commercial bodies. Many of them leave to our farmers no reward for their labor and invested means. haYe been introduced to the attention of Senators from the portions of It would depress manufacturing industries and deprive many workingmen the community which they particularly represent. Without going ofl~~;~:d~ce to a minimum the trade of the Northwestbylargelydestroy- through any accumulation, any aggregation, or symmetry which should ing the purchasing ability of our producers. . . It would drive a large share of the long-distance traffic from American to group together the opinions of all the commercial interests of this en Canadian lines. tire country, I select but one from its position as central in lllinois and It would cripple, if it did not ba.nkrupt, many railroads by compelling them one as proceeding from the Board of Trade of Minneapolis. In Peoria to relinquish a large part of either their through or their local traffi.c-both of which are essential to their solvency. they say: The very people who ought to derive most benefit from legislation of this At a meeting of the directors of the Peoria Board of Trade, held December general character-the farmers a_nd .w.ag~arners of the country-would be the 20 1886 the followmg preamble and resolutions were unanimously adopted: first and greatest sufferers from 1ts lnJunous effects. Wl1e;eas after mature and careful consideration of section t, known as the * • • * * * * "long and short haul" clause of the interstate-commerce bill, now before Con Section 5 which arbitrarily prohibits the pooling of railway earnings, is not gress, it is the opinion of this board that the passage of the bill with th.e section less objecti~nable than section 4. It proceeds u~on the assumpti?n that.an ami· mentioned will unsettle all business inte1·ests throughout the West; will depre cable apportionment of traffic among substantially parallel railway hues de ciate the value of all farming lands west of the Middle States; will work di stroys wholesome competition, creates a. "monopoly," results in exorbitant rectly in the interests of lnke ports, lake trallilportation lines, Canadian roads transportation charges, and thus wrongs the general body of producers, ship and the Eastern farmer: Therefore, pers and consumers, who constitute the people. With exceptions so rare as B e it resolved, That in the opinion of this board such radical and experimental only to prove the rule, this assumption is a fallacy, and legislation based upon legislation a s contemplated by the sect ion mentioned is not only.nnca.lled-forat it must prove a hurtful blunder. The facts are that such apportionments of the present time, but threatens widespread disaster to themostvitaJ. interests of traffic are a natural and necessary outgrowth of the development of our national the Western States. transportation system; that they constitute the only plan of self-preservation .Resolved, That the discretionary power given the commission to discr~ate for railroads which time, and thought, and experience have been able to evolve in the application of t he " long and short hanl" clause as between d1fferent from a. most difficult and perplexing situation; that they are the only known localities, will at the best afford only uncertain and long delayed relief, and and feasible alternative for that system of cut-throat competition which foments will be apt to a dd m erely another element of uncertainty to the transportation chronic" rate wars," and which, unless held in check, would end in the bank problem. ruptcy first of the weak lines, and then ofthestrongones-for a. bankrupt rail way ~ving no responsibility to bondholders or shareholders, is the most reck This preamble and these resolutions were adopted unanimously by less ~nd destructive ofcompetitors. These a~justments and divisions of traffic, the Peoria Board of Trade. Peoria is not eastern; Peoria. is central, known as railway pools, do not raise transportation charges above a. reasonable central as toward the great Valley of the Mississippi and the immense level. Almost without exception they have resulted in holding rates steadily at the lowest point at which the business can be done at a. living profit. This is illus breadth of grain-producing counh-y which we are so fortunate as to in trated just now, a.s you are aware, in o.ur own section, ~ever was ~ere a. closer clude within the limits of the United States. This is their judgment. poolin.,. arrangement between trunk lines than that which now eXlSts between Can any one overwhelm it by the objurgation that it is in the interest the six"'roads leading from Minneapolis to Chicago, yet never were freight tariffs so low as at the present time, and never were the people better accommodated. of railroads? If by stigmas the judgments of all the most intelligent The well-known fact that, concurrently with the development of the railway and responsible representatives of commerce are to be derided, if it is pooling system, railw;ay rates have steadily, greatly1 and ev!'lryw~ere decreased to be set down as an espousal and a sycophancy toward railroads, then is a. summary refutatiOn of the whole theory on which section 5 18 founded. The pooling or apportionment system, besides preserving railways from in already there is no opportunity of freedom. But they record their solvency, and rail way investments from destruction, directly benefits every busi judgment, and they are going to be judged, if you pass this measure, ness community by giving some degree of uniformity and stability to transporta- just as you are going to be judged; and if they are right, then you have tion charges, and thus enabling business men to shape their course with greater certainty and safety. A railway rate war, although it temporarily reduces the done this thing, and done it when ad vised by certain public manifesta market price of transportation below actual cost, is universally and justly re tion and argument on the part of the representatives of commerce that garded as a. misfortune to all legitimate lines of trade. Obviously it is of no it "will unsettle all bu.. ment, settle two propositions of railroad regulation? If we are to look Commerce has its own laws, its own trade, its own views of equality,· at that as a bearing and a motive, stimulated by feelings and facts, equality of reasonableness, equality ofpromoting commerce, of carry however important, however just in the minds of the people, not bear ing wheat, and carrying oats, and carrying corn, at rates that are nec ing upon the carrying of C',ommerce, but only on the regulation of mo essary to move them. When commerce, in its vehicles, in its managers, rality, of justice, of equity, if you please, by the railroads, as distin in its capital, is ready to carry wheat across the continent and across guished from the question whether these perversions on their part have the ocean to compete with India, who likes to pass a law saying that injured commerce, and as a great interest, they have had their atten it shall not be done becanse it is a long haul? You can not carry wheat tion drawn to something that it does not belong to the United States at a cheaper rate when that cheaper rate is the only one that will move Government to redress. It belongs to the law and the general admin it all, because it does not conform to the regularity of the lineal meas- istration of justice and the regulation by the St-ates of what is examina urements of the short haul. · ble by them. Here we are to act, not by getting, through a subterfuge, I have taken these absolutely similar articles as showing the impro a dominion for the Federal Government of what does not belong to it, priety of substituting the rule oflineal demarkation when the state of but we are to confine ourselves to what we are properly accredited and the markets is the point which determines whether the rate is reason furnished with, the regulation of commerce. able or not. Let me take now the fourth section. It is not a very bold step, it But we do not stop there. The Supreme Court of the United States is not a very assuring step that Congress enters upon this proposition. has decided that the States can not regulate long and short hauls, be It does not undertake to say it is right that the lineal measurement cause that would burden interstate commerce; it is a tax. We are shall be the commercial rule of equality. Nobody ventures to say that. then undertaking to regulate them, but do we regulate them? We do What has it said? It has said: ''We will apply it at least to this, that it sensibly in a general frame; we do it as well as we can ifwerequire if the movements of commerce and the interests of commerce impose a au assimilation in their nature of the subjects of transportation; but rate of transportation for shorter lines, those rules of commerce, those then look how we draw back, how we really take the position of abdi motives, and those interests which should justify and ind nee a cheapen cation by the Congress of the United States, the law-making authority, ing of the longer transportation shall not be allowed." It is a regula in this demarkation. We will not trust to the laws of trade; we will tion not for che"tpening anything. It is a rule, inflexible so far as Con not trust to the views of managers of railroads and managers of com gress imposes it, that nothing shall be cheapened by the laws of trade merce and those interested-not to them, not to all; we will not trnst and the interests of the people. That is a novel proposition to begin ourselves. We say in this measure, thns condemned by these bodies with. We are dealing with railroads, dealing with commerce, and we in different parts of the United States in the interests of commerce for say that cheapening shall not be possible under the circumstances that the danger that will come, well, it is very likely it will be so. · We are we state. Is there any denial of that? There are motives and reasons entering into an arrangement of an articulative tissue of commercial given for it, but nevertheless that is the effect which is to be produced interests as extensive as the country and as intricate and manifold as by it. the interests of this vast country are diversified. If these farmers, if Is our market to be raised? Is it to be regulated by the shorter hauls these manufacturers, if these merchants condemn us for passing an act included within the lineal transportation of the longer hauls? There are that belongs to the law of commerce, only required by law to be made all sorts of long hauls and all sorts of short hauls, the longer long hauls sensible, equal, free, general, we are not going to :tace the community and the shorter short hauls, but lineal measurement shall not be cheap on that subject. We provide a board to dispense with our folly and to ened unless according to lineal measurement, not absolute and univer accept regulations that belong to the laws of trade and commerce. sal, but on this line that is drawn. It is one of lineal measurement and Is that constitutional? Is that what is to come from denying to the nothing else. It is not whether it is up hill or down hill; it is not States and to their responsibility discrimination, to have five commis whether it is on a level; it is not the question whether there is support sioners to make such discriminations as they in their judgment shall ing commerce or long gaps of 300 or 500 miles of desert ; it does not think are suitable to the interests of commerce? For that is what it deal with the question of the whole transportation that the commerce comes to, and just in proportion as this liberality of their discretion and the people of the United States are interested in transferring from and power is restricted it is contrary to the proposition upon which one remote place to another, just as much as in crossing the ocean, where they are trusted. We will not take it, we will not give it wholly to there is no peddling along, as there can be none on the ocean. them, but against the accusing laws of trade and commerce, of prop Those are all commercial reasons, those are all commercial arguments, erty, prosperity, equality, and jnstice, we leave it for each to point to those are all reasons which affect cheapness, and this network of reason the other, it was the Congress that was at fault; or, on our part, it is and freedom and equality is to be subjected to an absolute demarkation, the commissioners who did not do their duty. I can not see that that . resting upon nothing but lineal distance. mode of legislation is consonant with the duty of Congressional power That is a pretty grave responsibility. How do we meet it? First, and Congressional responsibility. by limiting it to the same kinds of freight, and under similar circum Mr. President, you will observe that in all the regulative provisions stances and similar conditions. There are lawsuits enough in that to be supervised and modulated by these commissioners, except in these provision to keep us lawyers at work for twenty years on that. two clauses, we have given them a guide as clear as is possible, reason What are freightsofthe same kind which are to be governed by this able, just, equal, and a supervision of law to determine what is re.'\Sona lineal demarkation now and forever, unless the law is changed? Let ble, just, and equal. Under the course of commerce developed in me ask some agriculturist or representative of agriculture. If the rural Europe or here the words "reasonable, just, and equal" embrace State of Vermont, where I pass the most of the summer, may be called phrases that could be used; and reason, therefor~, as far as may be, is an agricultural State, let me ask what are freights of the same kind? adopted as the guide and governor of all these various and competing I will ask my friend from Iowa [Mr. ALLrso:s-] whether oats and corn interests. and wheat are all'the same kind of freight? Ah, if reason could be supreme, and reason could be omniscient, and M:r. ALLISON. They are. reason could be omnipresent and omnipotent, what would be better Mr. EVARTS. That is the opinion of that section of the country, than to be governed without laws by what was reasonable, and just, and therefore necessarily not only of your own but reinforced by that and equal? of your constituents. It is true. In rl?l'Utn natura it is so. They are But there is a practical difficulty in this commission in respect of these products of the soil, they are cerec'l.ls, and they are food for man and undefined powers, in their nature discretionary. Even if we po~essed beast. and could possess, and if we should always think so, every measure of What does commerce care about that?. What is that to commerce? equality and justice that can be conceived, such as can be found in the Suppose that in the situation of the commerce of the world which we resources of human nature, it takes time for these :five men to do jus are to have hereafter and shall have, wheat is competed with abroad tice, not by a dispensing law to repeal the sections but by an examina under the state of casual crops, already competing with other fertile tion to be made, judging of each one under its circumstances and not :fields, we are excluded unless we can carry wheat at a cheaper rate than embracing any general propositions. we can carry oats, and do carry oats, and that it is reasonable to carry Besides the burdens of the general framework of the bill which they oats. We are not excluded from Europe in the carrying of oats, and so may discharge, but which will require labor, deliberation, and deby, with corn, butthewheatoflndiais ourrival and our terror. lndiadeals how long will it be before these :five commissioners iu dealing with th' in wheat and not in corn, and not in oats. Russia, in its vast plains whole network and the whole area and thew hole immeasurable diver& and with its abject population, I will say, does not compete with us in ity will get around to your constituents and mine? One part of. the corn. It does compete with us in oats and in wheat. Under this rule, country will be liberated from this restriction a year and another two in the state of the markets, oats can have the rate thus measured by years before others. Empowered with all the vigor of the Constitution short hauls and get to Europe, and corn can get there, and wheat can that may be accredited to it, and with all our confidence in the legis not. What are you going to do about it? What becomes of the lineal lative power of Congress, can we reduce time, and circumstance, and rule bearing on commerce? '!'he reasonableness of rates depends upon delay, and difficulty? It is said that ten years of agitation have been whether the subject of transportation will bear this or that measure, required to bring these deliberative bodies to the conclnsion that we not an unreasonable measure. That is regulated by the other clauses are so near in concurring upon. How long what we find it impossible of the bill; but must we allow India to possess the consumption of to settle is it to take these men to settle for the private and particular Europe, especially England, in wheat, because we can not transport justice of every neighborhood and every production? There has to be wheat at a cheapness that will comport lineally with the transporta a judicial determination of the particular case. Will they begin with tion of other articles? Alabama? I was going to say they will not get down to Alabama, but 1887. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 609 beginning with Alabama, for aught I know, it will take them about fertile and productive system, the commerce ab extm has not been af three years before they get t~ New York. - That is not legislation. If fected injuriously. It has grown and flourished without the aid of in it be a demonstration that it is all the legislation we can safely make, tervention, certainly without intervention to constrain. Who shall then it is regulation that you can not make at all. desire that without investigation we should attempt so vast a disturb Now, about pooling. Wehavenotsaidso much about pooling. These ance of this equality and these flattering commercial prospects? chambers of commerce have very well pointed out what is the difficulty Mr. President, to this fortunate land of ours we may apply the de in the fif h section in making a peremptory, a specific rule on the sub scription armis potens terra et twere glebre; our lands in fertility have ject of pooling. There is none of that uncertainty about the regulation not been the inferior means by which this nation has been illnstmted. that is found in the fourth section, and there is not any suspending power It is these fertile plains, and -this free intercourse, and this railroad sys- · under the fifth section. tern, pushed on rashly, losing so much to its investment, that have con What did we do in the original Senate bill? We commit it to this veyed to the homes of the consumers that which the land produces so administrative board to examine into the question of pooling and tore abundantly. And now this very question of ours is at the bottom of port to Congress. I thought that was wise. The other Hou.Se have the political agitation of Great Britain and Ireland; and restrained by substitnted, in the concurrence of the conference committee, their meas all the impediments there it has brought the landed aristocracy of Ire ure, which is absolute on the subject of pooling. land to the necessity of yielding to the tenants, and in Germany the Pooling is a very general term. It is not in very good repute by it soldier can no longer prescribethe method for holding lands, but the self, and while it carries in this connection, as it does, a combination measure of their productiveness is that at which our competition places in the interest of railroads and to oppress commerce7 it is regulated by them; and with these vast equals in freedom who shaH SfJ.Y that the the previous section, and sufficiently. But shall it be said that when Congress of the United States desires to lay impediments on transfers by the rules of commerce and the interests of equality, protection between the States or burdens on their foreign commerce? No, Mr. against discrimination finds its readiest and its most useful mode in President, whatever we can see in the future, whatever we can read in its application to a certain area and operating upon certain interests, the past, the greatest and the most classic examples, all warn us to be from a diversity of points of competition governing and inflaming the ware of entering on the path now proposed to us. zeal and cupidity of competing railroads to reduce rates, are we ready to say that that equalization and a conformity within an area and ap MESSAGE FROX THE HOUSE. plicable to competitive roads shall not be allowed if that will produce A message from the House of Representatives, by Mr. CLARK, its in the given situation equality and stability? Clerk, announced that the House had passed the following bills; in 'I hat pooling, as it is called, does produce uniformity and stability in whi~h it requested the concurrence of the Senate: a certain situation we all know; and we all know that one ofthe mo~t A bill (H. R. 7094) to give the consent of Congress to an agreement important interests of shippers, whether Eastern shippers or produce made between thP. commissioners appointed on the part of the State of shippers from the West and the South, when they ship under contracts New York and the commissioners appointed on the part of the State of that they make or aiTangements with consignees for advances, is to know New Jersey respecting the location of the northern boundary-line be the rate to be paid, and we have desired to accomplish that by provid tween the States of New York and New Jersey, and the replacing and ing that a publication shall be made and that the rates shall not be ad ·erecting of monuments thereon, bearing date the 7th day of June, iir vanced without due notice. But on one railroad that is literally 20 or the year of our Lord 1883; 25 miles 1rom another the rate of fare is lowered under the invitation A bill (H. R. 9377) for the relief of J. E. Pilcher; and and the rapacious effort of roads either to force a combination or to com A bill (H. R.l0040} to provide for holdingtermsofthe United States pel buying out, or which they think they can displace without dishon courts at Mississippi City, Miss. • est means. So when the shippers take themselves to their contracts The message also announced that the Honse had pa.c::sed the bill (S. they find out that although there is rather a preponderance on one rail 1458) to provide for holding terip.S of the circuit and district courts of road the other is going to go on competing, and it will naturally take the United States for the eastern district of Michigan at Bay City, in shipments from this point at such a rate that although they are lineally said district, with an amendment, in which it requested the concurrence further off they are commercially nearer. Who cares in transportation of the Senate. about lineal distances? It is wh.at it costs to bring the produce to the HOUSE BILLS REFERRED. markets. Those are the nearest where the rates are cheapest. Those The following bills this day received from the House of Representa are the farthest off where the line, as such, is destroyed in its nearness tives were severally read twice by their titles, and referred to theCom by the excessive charges for freight. mittee on the Judiciary: People think that to get rid of the mischief of the· competition and A bill (H. R. 2879) to authorize the service of civil and criminal the tyranny, if you choose, of the railroads over commerce, the States process issued by Territorial courts within military and Indian reser ought to take all therailroadsofthe States, and the United States ought vations and the Yellowstone National Park; to take all the railroads that cross the lines between the States, in order A bill (H. R. 5577) to provide that a judgment in the circuit court that each line and each interest shall have an equality and uniformity of the United States upon an interest coupo:.;t of a bond by a munici and stability, and that equality andjusticemaybeaccomplished. Now pal corporation shall not be conclusive in a question on the bond when what is thatgoingtodo? Actually youaredisplacingcompetition and the amount gives jurisdiction to the Supreme Court on appeal; making a general income from all the railroads, by pooling, into the A bill (H. R 10658) to chan~e the lines between the eastern and Treasury of the Unjted States. western judicial districts of North Carolina; I only insist upon this illustration to the extent that it properly A bill (H. R. 7094) to give the consent of Congress to an agreement goes. Pooling, which is equalizing matters as to receipts, is in the made between the commissioners.appointed on the part of the State of same nature as equalizing lineally, and is right or wrong, useful or New York and the commissioners appointed on the part of the State of mischievous, according as that unification, that stability, that equality, New Jersey respecting the location of the northern boundary line be and t.hat reasonableness is accomplished by one or the other; and tween the States of New York and New Jersey, and the replacing and though pooling is assumed to be unpopular1 and the name may carry a erecting of monuments thereon, bearing date the 7th day of June, in measure of disfavor by force of the phrase, and is absolutely worthy of the year of our Lord 1883; and denunciation in all cases, really the effect of pooling, as these cham A bill {H. R. 10040) to provide for holding terms of the United States bers of commerce say, is to give reasonable stability and equality. In courts at Mississippi City, Miss: the experience of the great State of New York they have not only un The bill (H. R. 9377) for the relief of J. E. Pilcher was read twice dertaken not to control pooling, but by advisory intimation of the by its title, and referred to the Committee on Claims. State ·commission and advisory intervention of the chambers of com merce and of boards of trade at manufacturing centers, as well as at POLYGAMY .AND AFFAIRS IN UTAH. the seaports, they have obtained a rate of transportation that at present ThePRESIDENTprote-mporelaid beforetheSenatetheamendmentof meets with very little objection from all the interests in our State. the House of Representatives to the bill (S. 10) to amend an act entitled But here the intervention of an authority peremptory, conclusive, and "An act to amend section 5352 of the Revised Statutes of the United permanent is now proposed. States, in reference to bigamy, and for other purposes," approved March Mr. President, everything is tending, as everything should tend in 22, 1882. . this country, to unification and equality in all the intercommunication Mr. EDMUNDS. I move that -the Senate disagree to the amend the passing of property, of exchange, of commerce in every direction' ment of the House of Representatives, and ask a conference thereon, so that within the periphery of our now vast country there should b~ and I ask unanimous consent that the Chair appoint the committee no line of discrimination known that the law tolerates, and certainly and that the House amendment and the Senate bill be printed. none that the law defends. We may talk about the mischiefs that have Mr. HOAR. What bill is that? grown out of the exaggeration of wealth and the distribution of wealth Mr. EDMUNDS. Tlie polygamy bill. _ under the railroad system; one has been pinched here and one has been The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Vermont moves inflated there; but I put it to the scope of consideration of the Senate that the Senate disagree to the House amendment and ask a conference that with all the infirmities, with all the burdens, by whatever phrases on the disagreeing votes. they maybe described, which the system has caused, progress ha.q gone The motion was agreed to. on in the sense of dispersing population and bringing lands into our By unanimous consent the President p1·o tempore was authorized to XVTII-39 610 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JANUARY 13, appoint the conferees on the part of the Senate, and Mr. EDl\!UNDS, The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the consid Mr. INGALLS, and Mr. PUGH were appointed. eration of executive business. After :fifteen minutes spent in executive .Mr. EDl\IUNDS. I move that the bill itself, which is nearly out of session the doors were reopened, and (at 4 o'clock and 25 minutes p . print, and the amendment of the House of Representatives be printed m.) the Senate adjourned until to-morrow, Friday, January 14, at 12 in one body, stitched together, so that everybody can see just how they o'clock m. stand. The motion was agreed to. NOl\fiNATIONS. I PUBLIC BUILDING AT FORT SCOTT, KANS. Executive nominations ·received by the Senate tiLe 13th day of Januar-y, 1887. Mr. 1\IAHONE submitted the following report: CONSULS. The committee of conference on the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the amendment of the House to the bill (8.1385) for the completion of a. public John T. Campbell, of California, to be consul of the United States at building at Fort Scott, Kaus., having met. after full and free conference have Auckland, to fill a vacancy. agreed to recommend and do recommend to their respective Houses as fol Henry H. Pendleton, of Wheeling, W. Va., to be consul of the United lows: That the Senate recede from its disagreement to the amendment of the House States at Southampton, vice William Thomson, dece~ed. numbered 1 and agree to the same with an amendment as follows: In line 1, POST)IASTER. strike out the word" twenty-five" and insert the word "forty;" and the Senate agree to the same. WILLIAM MAHONE, W. T. Cox, to be postmaster at McKinney, Tex., vice James W. P. B. PLU:MB, Thomas, term expired. G. G. VEST, Managers on the part of the Senate. WITHDRAWAL. SAMUEL DffiBLE, The nomination of William W. Merritt, to be postmaster at McKin· N. D. WALLACE, ney, Tex., is withdrawn. W. H. WADE~ lfanagers on the part of the House. The report was concurred in. CONFIRMATION. INTEnSTATE COMMERCE. Executit·e nomination confirmed by the Senate January 13, 1887. The Senate resumed the consideration of the report of the commit 1\IL.'HSTER RESIDENT. tee of conference upon the disagreeing ·votes of the two Houses on the Hugh A. Dinsmore, to be minister resident and consul-general of the bill (S. 1532) to regulate commerce. United States to Corea.. 'fhe PRESIDENT pro temp01·e. The question is on agreeing to the report of the committee of conference on the interstate-commerce bill. l\fr. SAWYER. I move that the Senate proceed to the consideration of executive business. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. 1\Ir. CULLOM. It is only 4 o'clock and we have had but one speech THURSDAY, Ja.nuary 13,1887. to-day. There are a number of other gentlemen desiring to speak, and if we are ever going to dispose of the bill I trust the Senate will con The House met at 12 o'clock m. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. W. tinue its consideration at least during the regular hours of the business H. 1\IILBlTRN, D. D. day. The Journal of yesterday's proceedjngs was read and approved. l\:1r. ED:W:UNDS. Let us sit it out. GRADES OF OFFICES IN ADJUTANT-GEXERAL1S DEPARTMENT. The PRESIDENT pro te-mpore. The Senator from Wisconsin [l\Ir. The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of SAWYER] submits a motion, which is not debatable, that tbe Senate War, transmitting, with inclosures, a draught of a bill to effect a re-ar proceed to the consid~ration of executive business. rangement of the grades of offices in the Adjutant-General's Department Mr. CULLOM. I can for the yeas and nays. of the Army; which was referred to the Committee on .Military Affairs, Mr. HOAR. I was going to appeal to my friend fi.·om Illinois. and ordered to be printed. There are several Senators who wish to make brief remarks. I am one; 1 but I am not quite prepared to go on to-night, though it is owing tono CHARLES 1\! CAFFERTY ANU OTHERS. want of diligence on my part. The Senator can certainly soon have a The SPEAKER also laid before the House a report of the Secretary vote on his bill. There is no purpose, I can assure him, of any delay of War, stating, in compliance with a provision of the river and harbor that will work injury to the bill. He is certain to have a vote within act of August 2, 1882, the amounts due Charles :McCafferty and D. and a few hours now, whenever the few hours come that gentlemen can be C. P. Dull, contractors on locks on the Great Kanawha River, on ac heard. I do not see why we should be put to the inconvenience of a count of the losses resulting from changes in the contract. late session. · The SPEAKER. The Chair thinks this communication under the .Mr. CULLOM. I hope I may be allowed to say a word. rules of the House should go to the Committee on Claims, but the in I do not think that I can be justly charged with being disposed to formation was called for in a bill reported from the Committee on Rivers ask any unreasonable thing of the Senate. This report has been before and Harbors. the Senate now for many days. I have asked the Senate to consider it The communication was referred to the Committee on Appropriations. from day to day. I have heard the same statement from the Senator WILLIA.l\I H. COOK, SR., AGAINST TllE U~ STATES. from l\1assachusetts that he was not quite ready to address the Senate upon this bill two or three days ago and on yesterday. I think the The SPEAKER also laid before the House a letter from the assist Senator has had a tolerably reasonabl-e time in which to get ready. If ant clerk of the Court of Claims, transmitting a copy of the findings of he is not ready, perhaps some other Senator who desires to speak is fact by that court in the case of William H. Cook, sr., against tho ready. United States; which was referred to the Committee on War Claims. We certainly are not going to come to a conclusion on this bill, if we SEXATE BILLS REFERRED. run along with one speech a day, before the end of the session, and the The SPEAKER also laid before the House the bill (S. 2920) amend result will be, inevitably, the defeat of this measure, a measure in which ing section 3749 of the Revised Statutes of the United States; which the people of this country are intensely interestf:ld. was read twice, and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. I am not in favor of stifling debate; I desire that Senators may have The SPEAKER also laid before the House the bill (S. 2791) to pro- an opportunity to express themselves; but I propose that this subject vide for an American register for the steamer Nuevo Moctezuma, of shall be brought to a conclusion wit,hin a time that will give the other Philadelphia, Pa.; which was read twice by its title. House an opportunity of acting upon the report after we dispose of it. .Mr. DUNN. An exact and identical copy oftba.t bill has been unan If we are in good faith wanting to pass a bill, let us go on with its imously reported from the Committee of the House on American Ship consideration with a view of coming to the end of the consideration of building and Ship-owning Interests. The bill provides simply to the subject. grant an American register to a. vessel which was wrecked in foreign Now, if the Senator and the Senate will give unanimous consent that waters, rebuilt in an American ship-yard, and is owned by American we vote to-morrow at any hour during the day-I do not care whether citizens. I a.sk unanimous consent that the bill be now put upon its it is 4 o'clock or some time before we adjourn-if there is no objection passage. to that arrangement I am content that the consideration of the report The SPEAKER. The bill will be read. shall go over. The bill was read. The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from illinois asks the 1\Ir. REED. I think that bill had better be laid aside for the present. nn:mimous consent of the Senate that the vote shall be mken on this 1\Ir. DUNN. It has been considered by the Committee on American report to-morrow before adjournment. Is there objection? The Chair Ship-building and Ship-owning Interests, and, as I have stated, is an hears none. exact copy of a bill reported by that committee. Mr. CULLOM. Now, I hn.ve no objection to the motion of the Sen 1\Ir. REED. I withdraw my objection. ator from Wisconsin. Mr. DINGLEY. This bill has been considered by the committee, EXECUTIVE SESSIOX. and unanimou.."'ly reported. 'The PRESIDENT p1·o tempo1·e. The Senator from Wisconsin [Mr. 1\Ir. TUCKER. I call for the regular order. SAWYER] moves that the Senate proceed to the consideration of exec u The SPEAKER. This is the regular order. The Chair is now pre ti \e business. senting to the House bills from the Senate; and on the presentation of