Wednesday Volume 691 24 March 2021 No. 196

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 24 March 2021 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2021 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 899 24 MARCH 2021 900 House of Commons Covid-19: Female Employment The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies): The latest Office for National Wednesday 24 March 2021 Statistics official statistics show the female employment rate at 71.8% at the end of January 2021. The Government recognise that times are hard for many women and men, The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock which is why we have extended the furlough scheme until September, alongside new measures in our plan for PRAYERS jobs, such as our £2 billion kickstart scheme and the restart programme, which launches this summer.

Mr Speaker: Question 2 is withdrawn, so we now go [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] to Kirsten Oswald. Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Orders, 4 June and 30 December 2020). Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP) [V]: Covid [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] forced short-term modifications to working practices, which demonstrate that change is possible, but proactive steps are needed to secure long-term improvements in flexible working to support the work and caring Oral Answers to Questions responsibilities of women in particular. Does the Minister agree that flexibility should be available from day one of a new job rather than being a possibility six months in, will she ensure that the forthcoming employment Bill WOMEN AND EQUALITIES provides for that, and will she confirm that that Bill will be in the Queen’s Speech?

The Minister for Women and Equalities was asked— Mims Davies: The hon. Lady raises something really important. At the Department for Work and Pensions Same-sex Couples: Insemination Services we have been incredibly flexible with our team, and they have been incredibly flexible as a result, so I absolutely Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) agree that flexibility is really important and will be (Ind): What assessment she has made of the ability of keenly supporting changes to make sure that more same-sex couples to access insemination services in women are part of the workforce. It is pleasing that, the UK. [913999] compared with men’s, the fall in women’s employment has been better through the covid pandemic. As the UK The Minister for Care (Helen Whately) [V]: Regulation Government, we want to do as much as we can to of fertility treatment services is UK-wide, but policy is support women to progress and thrive in the workplace devolved. In England, decisions about local fertility or, indeed, working at home more flexibly. services are determined by clinical commissioning groups, taking account of National Institute for Health and UK’s G7 Presidency: Role of Women Care Excellence guidelines, which include provision for same-sex female couples. Julie Marson (Hertford and Stortford) (Con): What steps the Government are taking to promote the role of Margaret Ferrier [V]: At present, Human Fertilisation women during the UK’s G7 presidency. [914001] and Embryology Authority guidance largely prohibits supplying sperm for insemination at home. Same-sex The Minister for Women and Equalities (Elizabeth couples who are trying to get pregnant have few options Truss): As part of the G7, we will be hosting the gender via the NHS other than to access insemination services equality advisory council. Led by Sarah Sands, it will from a registered UK clinic. That means that couples help women build back better across the world, including who live further away from such clinics face further costs on ending violence against women, women’s economic in their aspiration to start a family. Will the Minister, empowerment, and education for women and girls. working with the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and the HFEA, explore ways in which this Julie Marson [V]: I thank my right hon. Friend for issue could be mitigated? her response. Does she agree that flexible working is key, not just to open up more opportunities for more Helen Whately: On the question about the delivery of people but to address the UK’s perennial productivity sperm to residential addresses, that can be done across puzzle? the UK, but the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority advises against it because the origin of the Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is right: flexible sample and whether it is undamaged cannot be guaranteed. working should be the standard offer from employers. Undergoing treatment at a licensed UK clinic provides Recent Government Equalities Office research shows the donor and the patient with legal certainty about that there are 30% more applicants where jobs are their parental status and their future responsibilities, advertised as flexible. That particularly brings benefits but I am very happy to take up the hon. Lady’s question to women and those who live outside the major cities, further with the Minister for Innovation, as this sits in and it can help us level up our country and make it his portfolio. more productive. 901 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 902

Safer Streets for Women The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Vicky Ford): Science and technology will drive our Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con): What steps country’s future and women are brilliant at STEM— she is taking to ensure that good practice on making science, technology, engineering and maths. There are streets safer for women is shared. [914002] now more girls taking chemistry and biology at A-level than boys, but we need to continue to make progress in The Minister for Equalities (Kemi Badenoch): The other subjects. Initiatives such as T-levels provide an tragic death of Sarah Everard has reminded us that we excellent opportunity for girls interested in STEM. need to work together to ensure women do not feel at risk of harm on our streets. Since this senseless tragedy, Paul Howell: Could I ask the Minister to encourage we have taken immediate action by more than doubling young women to utilise options like the South Durham the safer streets fund and building on what works by University Technical College in Newton Aycliffe, where supporting measures such as better lighting and CCTV. every one of last year’s students got an outcome they The Minister for Crime and Policing will also hold a wanted, whether it was a job or further education? The summit with police, the violence against women and UTC is supported by companies such as Hitachi and girls sector,and industry representatives from the night-time Gestamp, and that can create great STEM-based career economy on preparations to protect women as pandemic opportunities. However, currently only about 20% of restrictions lift. the students are female. Does she agree with me that more should consider this educational option? The next Simon Fell [V]: I thank the Minister for her response. time she is in the north-east, will she come to see for Following that tragic case, a good number of my herself the opportunities that are being created,? constituents have been in touch with their concerns over whether their local area is safe. One of them, Courtney Vicky Ford: I thank my hon. Friend for championing Beech, who is an outreach worker for Drop Zone in women in STEM. I congratulate the UTC in Newton Barrow, is concerned about the lack of lighting in local Aycliffe for helping women to gain access to prestigious parks and the cemetery.What efforts are the Government engineering jobs and higher technical opportunities. It making to ensure that good practice is being shared is great to see more women taking up subjects such as with local authorities and other local organisations to engineering, but we would like to see more. A really keep women feeling safe and secure,especially at night time? proper and meaningful conversation with a woman role model who has already broken through STEM barriers Kemi Badenoch: I share my hon. Friend’s concern. can inspire girls and young women to enter STEM careers. No one should feel unsafe walking on the street, least of Companies, such as those he mentions, have an important all those who are doing valuable work in the community role in that. like Drop Zone. I hope he can reassure his constituents of the Government’s commitment to this issue. The safer streets fund has been more than doubled so it Peter Aldous [V]: I welcome the Minister’s reply. can support interventions such as street lighting and Participation in STEM can lead to exciting career CCTV, which will make people feel safer, and they are opportunities in such sectors as renewable energy, but the responsibility of local authorities. to ensure that young women have every opportunity to pursue their ambitions there must be a career-long Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) pathway that enables them to realise their full potential. (Con) [V]: In order to make the streets safer for women, That should include fair recruitment processes, the we must tackle the culture underpinning male violence. promotion of alumni networks that ensure skill retention Does my hon. Friend agree with the conclusion of the and the development of retention programmes. I would February 2020 report of the Government Equalities welcome an assurance from my hon. Friend that she is Office that the use of pornography is an important liaising with her ministerial colleagues to put in place a contributing factor to harmful sexual behaviours? If so, route map that includes such staging posts. how will she make sure that the Government emphasis is not simply on street lights, but also on the causes of Vicky Ford: It is really positive that we have more male violence against women? women studying to become doctors and that four out of five students studying to become vets are women, but it Kemi Badenoch: I think I can certainly say that I is less good that only one in five engineering students personally agree with my right hon. Friend. I do know are women. Initiatives such as Tomorrow’s Engineers that these issues have been looked at by the Under-Secretary Code, which was launched by EngineeringUK, is bringing of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the together Government, business and academia to increase Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins). the number and diversity of young people pursuing She is not here today, unfortunately, but she has been engineeringcodes.Asoneof manyGovernmentorganisations looking into this issue and I will follow it up with her to who have signed the code, we have pledged to work with provide a more comprehensive response to my right hon. the engineering community to improve quality targeting, Friend’s question. inclusivity and reach of engineering activities. Female Participation in STEM Covid-19: Disabled People Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con): What steps she is taking to promote female participation in STEM. [914005] Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab): What steps the Government are taking to help Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): What steps she is taking protect disabled people from the effects of the covid-19 to promote female participation in STEM. [914007] outbreak. [914006] 903 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 904

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work Michael Fabricant [V]: My hon. Friend the Member and Pensions (Mims Davies): The Government are for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) committed to supporting disabled people affected by and the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton the covid-19 outbreak. As part of Access to Work, we (Dr Huq) are absolutely right to condemn this dreadful have introduced a more blended offer to help disabled practice. The problem with it is that not only is it cruel, people find and stay in work, including prioritising but it does not work—it is absolutely pointless. As well applications from disabled people in the clinically extremely as imposing a ban, what can my right hon. Friend do to vulnerable group. educate religions or other groups who think that this abhorrent practice has a purpose? Debbie Abrahams [V]: The UK’s high and unequal covid death toll includes disabled people, who account Elizabeth Truss: I completely agree with my hon. for six out of 10 covid deaths. Last month’s Office for Friend that practices that harm or try to convert somebody National Statistics data showed that both disabled men into being something they are not, are not just wrong and women are more than three times more likely to die but completely inappropriate and unacceptable. That is if they contract covid than non-disabled people. Even when why we will be bringing forward our plans to ban this we adjust for various factors including age or pre-existing practice very shortly. He is right that it should be true in health conditions, there is still an additional covid risk all circumstances, including with religious practices. Of associated with disability. So I repeat my question from course, we must protect religious free speech, but we cannot last June: what assessment have the Government undertaken condone those harmful practices taking place. of the covid deaths of working-age disabled social security claimants? Given their additional risk, what are the Dr Huq [V]: It is good to hear the Minister’s words Government doing to protect them? after three years of dither and delay that have cost the Government three members of their LGBT panel. Can she now give us a legislative timetable for when ending MimsDavies:Iknowthatthehon.Ladyisverypassionate this archaic practice of conversion therapy will be on about making sure that anybody with barriers, anybody the statute book once and for all? impacted on by this pandemic, is absolutely supported, and that is something that we have been doing at DWP. Elizabeth Truss: I agree with the hon. Lady that we Through our Minister for Disabled People, Health and need to get on with doing this. I can assure her that since Work, we are listening to and engaging with charities I got this job a year ago I have been working to make and hearing from those people who are working, those sure that the ban we put in place is properly enforceable with learning disabilities, autistic people, and people with and has the right measures in place. We have been complex needs. Of course, this is an incredibly worrying looking at international experience to ensure that we do time for people with disabilities. The Minister is looking this correctly, but I am very keen to get on with it and I at this very carefully and will keep it under review. can assure the hon. Lady that we are very much on it. Conversion Therapy CharlotteNichols(WarringtonNorth)(Lab):TheMinister will be aware that it has been almost three years since the John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) Governmentcommittedtoendingthepracticeof conversion (Con): What steps she is taking to ban conversion therapy. Will she therefore take this opportunity to therapy. [914008] apologise to all those who have been harmed by these abhorrent practices as a result of the Government’s Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): What steps she inaction, and commit today to bringing forward a full is taking to ban conversion therapy; and if she will make legislative ban on practices to change or suppress a a statement. [914009] person’s sexual orientation or gender identity, to give all LGBT people the protection that they deserve? Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab): Elizabeth Truss: I am very clear that these practices What recent progress she has made on plans to ban are utterly abhorrent. I would point out that I have been conversion therapy. [914030] in this job for a year and I have been working to make sure that the ban we put in place is enforceable. I have The Minister for Women and Equalities (Elizabeth Truss): also dealt with a number of other long-standing issues, I am committed to banning conversion therapy. It is an such as responding to the consultation on the reform of abhorrent practice and I will shortly be bringing forward the Gender Recognition Act 2004 to make the process plans to do just that. simpler and kinder for transgender people, improving transgender health care and changing the blood donation John Lamont: I am grateful for that response. I am criteria for gay men donating blood. We are also working absolutely clear that this practice has no place in a on an international LGBT conference, entitled Safe to civilised society. Being from the LGBT+ community is Be Me, to end discrimination across the world. It is not an illness to be treated or cured, and I agree with the always important with legislation to ensure that we get Prime Minister who calls conversion therapy “abhorrent” it right and that it is properly enforceable, and we will be and “repulsive”. In the light of this, what can the Minister bringing plans forward shortly. do to accelerate the ban? Covid-19: Working Parents Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have been working to make sure that the measures Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): that we put in place are enforceable and fully researched. What discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues I am confident that we will be able to announce progress on the effect of the covid-19 outbreak on working parents. on this very soon. [914011] 905 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 906

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education to stamp out coercion and causing people harm wherever (Vicky Ford): We know that the pandemic has been it takes place. That is what I am determined to do, and hard on all families, especially those who have been that is what I will be bringing forward shortly. juggling work and childcare. That is one of the reasons why schools have remained open to the children of key Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab): Over the past workers throughout this time, and why early years 10 days we have seen the Government try to defend settings have remained open to all since last June. I meet their poor record on ending violence against women. regularly with colleagues across Government to discuss They have recently reopened the consultation on this support for families. issue, but there is no use in consulting people if the Government are not going to take any action. Take the Patricia Gibson [V]: Universal credit’s young parent consultation on sexual harassment in the workplace, penalty denies single parents under 25 years old the which closed 18 months ago. We have seen no response same level of social security as those above that age, from the Minister and no action from the Government, pushing those affected—90% of whom are women, and despite the fact that half of women experience sexual the majority of them in work—into poverty. What harassment at work. Can the Minister tell the House representations is the Minister making to her colleagues today when she will respond to this consultation and in the Department for Work and Pensions to fix this take the much-needed action to end sexual harassment? arbitrary inequality and discriminatory practice in the social security system and to abolish the young parent The Minister for Equalities (Kemi Badenoch): It is penalty? quite wrong to say that the Government are taking no action on tackling violence against women. We will be VickyFord:ThisUKGovernmenthaveputunprecedented publishing a new strategy in spring 2021, which will amounts—billions—into support for jobs and incomes, help to better target perpetrators and support victims of including the £150 million flexible support fund, which these crimes. The call for evidence to input into this helps women access childcare. The billions that the UK work has been extended to 26 March, and it is vital that has put into supporting jobs, especially for those on low we hear from women everywhere, especially given recent incomes, are yet another reminder of why the people of public discussions and concerns. Scotland increasingly agree that they are better off as There is so much that we have been doing, including part of the UK. the end-to-end rape review, which is looking at how every stage of the criminal justice system handles rape Topical Questions cases from police report to the final outcome at court. If the hon. Lady does want to work with us to end violence [913979] Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con): If she will against women, the way to do it is constructively and not make a statement on her departmental responsibilities. by making accusations that we are not taking any action.

The Minister for Women and Equalities (Elizabeth Truss): Marsha De Cordova: We on this side of the House are We have a huge opportunity, as we recover from covid-19, very committed to ending violence against women and for women across the world to build back better. That is girls, but there is a pattern with this Government. They why I am convening a group of leaders in the G7 gender consult and they review, but they take very little action. equality advisory council this year under the newly Yesterday we marked a year since the first national appointed chair, Sarah Sands, with leaders such as lockdown. The pandemic, as we all know, has had an Professor Sarah Gilbert, who spearheaded the Oxford unequal impact on our black, Asian and ethnic minority vaccine, Ritu Karidhal, who helped to lead India’s Mars people. Last July, the Prime Minister commissioned a orbital mission and Iris Bohnet, who has revolutionised review into race and ethnic disparities. It was due to be our understanding of fairness in the work- place. Together, published in December last year, than they delayed it we can lead on education for women and girls, women’s until February this year, and it is now nearly April and economic empowerment, and ending violence against still no report. women across the world. Can the Minister tell us when the Prime Minister Peter Gibson [V]: I thank my right hon. Friend for intends to publish his report, and will it be accompanied that answer. May I commend her on her choice of by a race equality strategy to tackle the ongoing structural Darlington for the newly announced Department for and institutional inequalities? International Trade hubs? I look forward to welcoming her to the Tees Valley. I also welcome her commitment Kemi Badenoch: The Commission on Race and Ethnic to a ban on conversion therapy. Does she agree that this Disparities will be reporting shortly,but it is disappointing so-called therapy is abuse and that those who perpetrate that the hon. Lady seems to forget it is an independent such abuse should be prevented in law from being able commission. It is not the Prime Minister but an independent to do so? As a gay man and a Christian, I believe that commission that will be publishing the report. What will such controls must also extend to religious organisations happen afterwards is that the Government will provide that seek to change a person’s sexuality. Will she ensure their response to the commission’s recommendations, and that the ban extends to these too? we shall wait and see what the commission recommends. What I have intended is that the commission has the Elizabeth Truss: I was delighted to announce yesterday freedom and the space to provide a set of recommendations that we will be bringing a trade and investment hub to that are robust. We are doing this not on dates but on Darlington. Weare also looking at moving the headquarters data, and we need to make sure it is something that will of our Equalities Office to the north of England, and stand the test of time and not just be a response to no doubt Darlington will be putting in a bid for that. Opposition Members who are not actually interested in My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that we need solving this problem but want to use it politically. 907 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 908

[913986] Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con) [V]: One for playing their part, whether working on the frontline, of the less talked about but more impactful and successful staying at home to prevent the spread of the virus, or recent Government-run programmes is the period product working on vaccine development and supply. It is that scheme for schools and colleges in England, which vaccination programme that has brought hope, allowing provides access to free sanitary products for those in us to set out the cautious but irreversible road map out education, including approximately 5,000 girls between of lockdown. the ages of 10 and 19 in my Wakefield constituency. This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues Many women across the UK, however,continue to struggle and others, and in addition to my duties in this House withaccesstosanitaryproducts,includingthoseexperiencing I shall have further such meetings later today. homelessnessandthoseinfinancialhardshipasaconsequence of the pandemic. Will my hon. Friend kindly outline for Stephen Farry [V]: Many independent countries, from the House what steps she is taking to promote access to Switzerland to New Zealand, have bilateral veterinary female sanitary products? agreements with the European Union and face lower non-tariff barriers than the UK, despite our very high Kemi Badenoch: The Government have taken several standards. With the Food and Drink Federation reporting important steps to ensure women are able to access the a massive drop in UK food exports—over 90% in some sanitary products they need. From 1 January 2021 the areas—and with sanitary and phytosanitary checks tampon tax has been abolished, with a zero rate of VAT constituting the main challenge for the Northern Ireland applied to women’s sanitary products coming into effect. protocol, surely the Prime Minister should be making it The Department for Education is leading a scheme to a priority to negotiate a bespoke UK-EU veterinary provide access to free period products in schools and agreement? colleges in England, NHS England announced in March 2019 that it will offer free period products to every hospital The Prime Minister: That is exactly why we put in patient who needs them, including long-term patients, temporary and technical measures to allow free trade to and the Home Office has changed the law to ensure that continue across the whole of the UK. It is very important all people in custody are provided with free health and for those who object to the measures that we have taken hygiene products, including period products. that the protocol should uphold the principle of east-west trade, as well as north-south trade, and that is exactly [913980] Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) what we are trying to do. (Lab) [V]: In lockdown, we have all become much more dependent on technology, yet that technology is not [913877] Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con): In Sussex, designed to treat us equally, with video-conferencing by the end of this week we will have delivered 1 million and photo-sharing apps that do not recognise black covid jabs. Will my right hon. Friend join me in paying faces, recruitment algorithms that discriminate on ethnicity, tribute to the local vaccine heroes and, in particular, and the Home Office’s own visa application algorithm to Adam Doyle and his leadership in Hailsham, to withdrawn because of bias.In this week of the International Charlotte Luck in Uckfield, and to Dr Susie Padgham Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, what in Crowborough? Does the Prime Minister agree that is the Minister doing to prevent structural racism from the UK’s success is built on the confidence that people being further entrenched by new technologies? have in the fantastic vaccine technology and that should, and when, our constituents be contacted to have a Kemi Badenoch: The hon. Lady raises a very interesting vaccination, they should definitely take up the first available question, and this is something the Government are aware appointment? of and are looking into. Yesterday, I spoke to Dr Tony Sewell, who is chairing the Commission on Race and The Prime Minister: I can certainly join my hon. Ethnic Disparities; I am aware that it has researched Friend in paying tribute to Adam Doyle, Charlotte this extensively and I look forward to seeing what its Luck and Dr Susie Padgham for all their efforts, and report says on it. my hon. Friend is completely right in what she says about the foundations of the UK’s vaccine success. I Mr Speaker: I am sorry we did not get as many Members had my jab on Friday. I do not know whether you have in as normal, but we have to move on to questions to had yours, Mr Speaker. [Interruption.] You certainly the Prime Minister. have. I know that the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) has had his. I encourage everybody to get it. PRIME MINISTER Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab): May I start by joining the Prime Minister in his remarks about The Prime Minister was asked— yesterday’s day of reflection for the 126,000 people who Engagements lost their lives to covid? That is a shocking number, and behind every one of those numbers is a grieving family. As soon as restrictions lift, there must be a full public [913874] Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance): If he inquiry, because that is the only way we can get to the will list his official engagements for Wednesday 24 March. bottom of the many mistakes that were made during the pandemic and find justice for those who have suffered The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson): The last 12 months so much. have been the most difficult for a generation, and I know that the thoughts of the whole House are with all Why did the Prime Minister promise at the last election those who have lost loved ones during the pandemic. I that he would also want to pay tribute to every person in this country “not be cutting our armed services in any form”? 909 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 910

The Prime Minister: That was because what we were we are even keeping the Army at 100,000. On top of going to do was actually increase spending on our armed that, we are doing what is necessary to modernise our services by the biggest amount since the cold war. We armed forces, taking them into the 21st century. We are are investing £24 billion in modernising our armed building more frigates and investing in cyber-warfare. forces, with no redundancies, and keeping our Army at We are doing all the difficult things that Labour shirked 100,000, if we include the reserves. I must say that I take during its time in office, including modernising and it slightly amiss from the right hon. and learned Gentleman upgrading our nuclear deterrent, which half the shadow given that he stood on a manifesto to elect a man who Front-Bench team would like to remove, leaving Britain wanted to pull this country out of NATO. defenceless internationally.

Keir Starmer: The Prime Minister is fighting the last Keir Starmer: I have every respect for our reservists, war. Is he trying to pretend, hidden in that answer, that but the Prime Minister is just playing with the numbers. the Army stands at over 100,000—the number that the He knows very well that the numbers have been cut. The Prime Minister just quoted? When the Secretary of State trouble is that we just cannot trust the Conservatives to for Defence made his statement to the House on Monday, protect our armed forces. [Interruption.] Let us look— he was absolutely clear: [Interruption.] Mr Speaker,let us look at their most recent “I have therefore taken the decision to reduce the size of the manifestos. These are the manifestos that Conservative Army…to 72,500 by 2025.”—[Official Report, 22 March 2021; Members stood on. The 2015 manifesto—[Interruption.] Vol. 691, c. 638.] Only this Prime Minister could suggest that a reduction Mr Speaker: Order. I am struggling to hear the Leader from 82,000 to 72,000 is somehow not a cut. of the Opposition, and I will hear the Leader of the The Prime Minister did not answer my question, which Opposition. Please, I want respect for the Prime Minister was: why did he make that promise? He said, before the and I expect the same for the Leader of the Opposition. last election—it is all very well him looking up—that Keir Starmer: The 2015 manifesto said: “we will not be cutting our armed services in any form”. “We will maintain the size of the regular armed services”. What did he do this week? He cut the British Army by 10,000; he cut the number of tanks; he cut the number The 2017 manifesto: of planes for our RAF; and he cut the number of ships “We will maintain the overall size of the armed forces”. for the Royal Navy. I say “he”—the Prime Minister did In 2019, the Prime Minister said that not have the courage to come to the House himself to “we will not be cutting our armed services in any form.” say what he was doing. Let me ask the Prime Minister a The truth is that since 2010 our armed forces have been simple question, going back to that promise before the cut by 45,000 and our Army will now be cut to its lowest election: did he ever intend to keep his promise to our level in 300 years. Let me remind the Prime Minister and armed forces? Conservative Members why this matters. Lord Richards, former Chief of the Defence Staff, has warned that with The Prime Minister: Not only did we keep our promise an armed force of this size now in the manifesto, but we actually increased spending by “we almost certainly…would not be able to retake the Falklands…and 14% more than that manifesto commitment. It is frankly stop genocides”. satirical to be lectured about the size of the Army when the shadow Foreign Secretary herself wrote only recently [Interruption.] He says it is rubbish. That is Lord Richards, that the entire British Army should be turned into a Prime Minister.After 10 years of Conservative government, kind of peace corps, and when, as I say, the Leader of is the Prime Minister not ashamed of that? the Opposition stood on a manifesto and wanted to elect a leader who wanted to disband the armed services.We The Prime Minister: This Conservative Government are making a massive investment in our defences and in are massively proud of the investment that we made in our future. It is wonderful to hear the new spirit of jingo our armed forces which, as I have said, is the biggest uplift that seems to have enveloped some of those on the Labour since the cold war. The right hon. and learned Gentleman Benches—they don’t like it up ’em, Mr Speaker. should look at what the NATO Secretary General had to say about our investment, which is absolutely vital for Keir Starmer: Let’stry this for up ’em. The Prime Minister the future success of the alliance and, indeed, for the might want to avoid the promises he made, but I have security of many other countries around the world. It is found an interview that he gave during the general a £24 billion investment—investment in the future combat election campaign. Here is the headline: “No troop airsystem,thenewArmyspecialoperationsRangerRegiment, cuts—Tories will maintain size of armed forces”. The £1.3 billion to upgrade the Challenger main battle tanks, article then goes on to quote the Prime Minister: “Boris a massive investment in the Typhoon squadrons and Johnson has promised that he will not make any new so on. cuts to the armed forces. He also promised”—the Prime We are investing in the future. Yes, of course, we have Minister might want to listen to this—“to maintain had to take some tough decisions, but that is because we numbers at their current level, including the Army’s believe in our defences and we believe that they should 82,000.” Now, I know the Prime Minister has form for be more than merely symbolic. It is the Labour party making up quotes, but can he tell us whether he thinks that is consistently, historically—it is hilarious to be the newspapers have somehow misquoted him? Or does lectured about the Falklands, Mr Speaker—weak on he now remember making that promise? protecting this country. It was most visible last week during the debate on the integrated review, when it was The Prime Minister: Yes, because there will be no plain that those on the shadow Front Bench could not redundancies in our armed forces and, as I said to the even agree to maintain Britain’s nuclear deterrent. That right hon. and learned Gentleman, if we include reserves, is absolutely true, Mr Speaker. 911 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 912

Keir Starmer: What is weaker than making a promise Steel. That is why my right hon. Friend the Business to our armed forces just before the election, then breaking Secretary has had, I think, three meetings with Liberty it and not being prepared to admit it—not having the Steel in just the last few days to take the question courage to admit it? There is a pattern here. The Prime forward and see what we can do. We are actively engaged. Minister promised the NHS that they would have “whatever We are investing huge sums in modernising British steel, they need”; now nurses are getting a pay cut. He promised making a commitment to British steel plants and making a tax guarantee; now he is putting taxes up for families. them more environmentally friendly. He promised that he would not cut the armed forces; Wehave a massive opportunity,because this Government now he has done just that. If the Prime Minister is so are engaged on a £640 billion infrastructure campaign: proud of what he is doing, so determined to push HS2, the great Dogger Bank wind farm, Hinkley, the ahead, why does he not at least have the courage to put Beeching railway reversals. All these things that we are this cut in the armed forces to a vote in this House? doing across the country will call for millions and millions of tonnes of British steel. Now, thanks to leaving the The Prime Minister: I am proud of what we are doing European Union, we have an opportunity to direct that to increase spending on the armed forces by the biggest procurement at British firms in the way that we would amount since the cold war. The only reason that we can want to, whereas I know that the right hon. and learned do that is that, under this Conservative Government, we Gentleman would like nothing more than to take this have been running a sound economy. It is also because country back into the European Union and remove that we believe in defence. We have been getting on with job. opportunity for British steel and British steelworkers. The right hon. and learned Gentleman talks about nurses and investment in the NHS. I am proud of the massive [913879] Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con): Last night, investment that we have made in the NHS. Actually, we I spoke with young people in Aberconwy about their have 60,000 more nurses now in training, and we have experiences of 12 months living with lockdowns. They increased their starting salary by 12.8%. We are getting were very articulate about the challenges they have on with the job of recruiting more police—20,000 more overcome and their concerns for the future, such as police. I think that we have done 7,000 already, while finding a job and moving to a new university. Does the they are out on the streets at demonstrations, shouting, Prime Minister have a message for Evie, Jonas, Saul and “Kill the Bill”. That is the difference between his party Lauren, and for other young people thinking about and my party.Weare pro-vax, low tax and, when it comes their futures and a life after lockdown? to defence, we have got your backs. The Prime Minister: Yes; my message is just to thank Mr Speaker: Order. I genuinely mean this: I do not them for what they have put up with and to say that I believe that any Member of Parliament would support am sorry about how difficult it has been for their that “Kill the Bill”. We are all united in this House in generation. I do not think there is any group of young the support and the protection that the police offer us people who have been put through so much and who and nobody would shy away from that. have had to sacrifice so much in our lifetimes. We owe it to them to repair their education and get them into Keir Starmer: The question, Prime Minister, is why work as fast as we possibly can. That is why we have not have the courage to put it to a vote. That question set out the £2 billion kickstart fund and many other was avoided, Mr Speaker, like all of the questions. We schemes that I hope will be useful to my hon. Friend’s all know why he will not put it to a vote. Let me quote a constituents. Conservative MP, the Chair of the Defence Committee, because he recognises—he has experience and respect Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP) [V]: across the House—that this review means Yesterday, my brilliant colleague, my hon. Friend the “dramatic cuts to our troop numbers, tanks, armoured fighting Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray), made his vehicles and more than 100 RAF aircraft”. final speech to this Parliament. He is standing for the He went on to say—this is your MP, Prime Minister— Scottish Parliament and is doing the right thing by “cuts that, if tested by a parliamentary vote, I do not believe stepping down as an MP. By doing the right thing, he would pass.”—[Official Report, 22 March 2021; Vol. 691, c. 644-645.] will avoid a dual mandate and a separate by-election that would cost the public £175,000. The Scottish Tory Those words are not from me,but from the Prime Minister’s leader in Westminster is also seeking a place in the own MPs. Scottish Parliament, but he is refusing to step down as I want to turn to another issue that affects thousands an MP. As his boss, will the Prime Minister order the of jobs and many communities across the country. hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) to resign his Some 5,000 jobs are at risk at Liberty Steel, as well as seat, avoid a dual mandate and save the taxpayer many more in the supply chain. The UK steel industry £175,000—or are dual mandates one more Tory policy is under huge pressure, and the Government’s failure to where they think greed is good? prioritise British steel in infrastructure projects is costing millions of pounds of investment. Will the Prime Minister The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend the Member for now commit to working with us and the trade unions to Moray (Douglas Ross) is doing an excellent job of change this absurd situation, to put British steel first holding the Scottish National party to account for their and to do whatever is necessary to protect those jobs? manifold failings, not least on education—failing to deliver on crime and failing, in my view, to deliver for The Prime Minister: Just a reminder—I am, of course, the people of Scotland, so caught up as they are in their happy to co-operate in any way—that the steel output desire for independence and another referendum for halved under the Labour Government. I share very separation. I am amazed that the right hon. Gentleman much the anxiety of families of steelworkers at Liberty has not mentioned that so far, but perhaps he will now. 913 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 914

Ian Blackford: [Inaudible] simply yet again a Prime we now know that the vast bulk of the Coronavirus Act Minister failing to answer a question and that charge 2020 is not needed to tackle the pandemic. So will the that “greed is good” in Tory policies. Prime Minister, for once, match his actions to his words, We know that Tory leaders in Scotland have a habit drop these draconian laws, and instead publish a road of dodging democracy. Baroness Davidson is fleeing map to revive civil liberties and freedoms in our country? the House of Lords and the current Tory leader is too feart to stand in a constituency.No wonder this morning’s The Prime Minister: I sympathise very much with the Daily Record declared that the Scottish Tories have right hon. Gentleman’s desire to see freedoms restored, and I want to do that as fast as we possibly can. That is “exposed themselves as shameless…nasty” why we have set out the cautious but, we hope, irreversible and just “plain daft”. It also says: road map that we have, which I hope he supports—and “They are led by…a man so devoid of imagination that when I hope the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn asked what he would do if he was prime minister for a day, and St Pancras also supports, although you can never replied: ‘I would like to see tougher enforcement against Gypsy tell. What we also want to do is make sure that we are travellers.’” able to deal with the very considerable backlog that we Does the Prime Minister really have confidence in a have faced because of the pandemic: making sure that Scottish Tory leader who does not even have the courage we have powers still to accelerate court procedures with to put himself before the voters in a Scottish constituency? Zoom courts; making sure that we allow volunteers to continue to help in the NHS and retired staff to come The Prime Minister: Of course.The right hon. Gentleman back to the colours; and making sure that we have represents a party that is so devoid of imagination that powers that are necessary in education. It is important they cannot come up with any workable solutions to to be able to continue with those special measures for help the people of Scotland improve their education, the months ahead, and that is why we have set out the improve the fight against crime, or cut taxes in Scotland, Bill as we have. where they are the highest in the whole of the UK. They are so devoid of imagination that they are a one-track [913884] Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con): My constituent record—all they can talk about is a referendum to Tracy Felstead is at the Court of Appeal today, along break up the United Kingdom. That is their song. I am with 41 other sub-postmasters. She is seeking to clear amazed, actually, that it is twice he has not mentioned her name in a grotesque miscarriage of justice: the Post it—maybe he is getting nervous of singing that particular Office Horizon scandal. The Court has heard about the song. It is rather curious. He is not coming back now, is “institutional imperative” to back a flawed IT system he, but next week, or after Easter, let us see if he mentions and to convict sub-postmasters, destroying the lives of it again. decent men and women in a ruthless determination to protect the Post Office come what may. Taxpayers will [913882] Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stocksbridge) be picking up the bill for this multimillion-pound reckless (Con): As my right hon. Friend has already said, the wrongdoing. Does the Prime Minister agree that, in steel industry is fundamental to our future in the UK, order for justice to be truly done, those responsible for and we cannot reach our net zero commitments or our this failure and its cover-up must be held to account? infrastructure targets without steel. Liberty Speciality Steel Does he agree that heads should roll? in my constituency has an uncertain future because of the funding challenges faced by Liberty Steel Group. The Prime Minister: I certainly understand my hon. The Stocksbridge works is a strategic asset of national Friend’s strong feelings on this issue, and her campaign importance. So what assurances can my right hon. Friend is shared by many Members across the House. That is give my constituents that the Government will do what why we launched the Post Office Horizon IT inquiry,which it takes to safeguard jobs and livelihoods and secure the has made quite fast progress. Yes, we do want to learn future of steelmaking in the UK? the lessons. Yes, we do want to make sure that the right people are held to account for what happened and that The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend, who is a the Post Office never repeats a mistake like this. passionate and successful advocate for her constituents and for steelmaking in this country, in which this [913875] Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) Government passionately believe. That is why, as I said (SNP) [V]: Subject to certain conditions being met, the to the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and Northern Ireland Act 1998 allows for the Secretary of St Pancras (Keir Starmer), we are supporting the UK State for Northern Ireland to call a referendum on Irish steel industry with more than £500 million of relief, and reunification and for Northern Ireland to leave the United also with huge investments to make our steelmaking Kingdom within seven years of a previous referendum. greener and more competitive. We will do everything we Those conditions for a referendum have all been more can to ensure that we continue with British jobs in than met in Scotland since the independence referendum producing British steel with the infrastructure investments in 2014, seven years ago. We are allegedly a Union of that I have mentioned and directing procurement at equal nations, so why, as a democrat, will the Prime British jobs in the way that we now can. Minister not agree to a section 30 order, enabling the democratic will of the people of Scotland to be measured? Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): The Prime Is it because he is fearful of the likely outcome? Minister talks about restoring freedoms as we emerge from the lockdown, yet he is pushing a Bill that will The Prime Minister: I knew it would n0t be long—there restrict one of our most fundamental freedoms—the they are! There are a couple of reasons. First of all, right to peaceful protest and peaceful assembly—and senior members of the hon. Member’s party said that it tomorrow he is asking for another blank cheque to was a “once in a generation” event in 2014. I think that restrict everyone’s freedoms until September, even though that point of view is shared across the House, and quite 915 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 916 rightly. The other reason, which is absolutely plain to right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), the people in this country, is that we are all trying to build hon. Member for Jarrow (Kate Osborne), my hon. Friend back better and get out of a pandemic. That is the priority the Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris) and fortheBritishpeople—itisthepriorityforthewholecountry myself—have raised this with the Football Association. —and I think people are, frankly, amazed to hear the Will the Prime Minister join us in encouraging those Scottish nationalist party still, in these circumstances, scheduling the matches to do all they can to move the banging on about their constitutional obsessions. date, so that the fans can attend?

[913885] John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and The Prime Minister: I hope very much that the Football Selkirk) (Con): Scottish rugby legend Doddie Weir lives Association will have listened carefully to what my hon. in my constituency and has been diagnosed with motor Friend has said and that they will do what they can. I neurone disease. Doddie’s foundation, the My Name’5 look forward to 17 May, when spectators, according to Doddie Foundation, is campaigning alongside the research the road map, may return. community, patients, MND Scotland and the MND Association for the Government to invest £50 million over [913878] Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP): Seventeen five years to establish a virtual MND research institute. months ago, Prime Minister, on 23 October 2019, I I understand that positive discussions have already taken stood in this place and asked you what you were going place with the Health Secretary, but it is important to do to get medical cannabis to children suffering from to ensure that other priorities such as this are not lost in rare forms of epilepsy.You said to me that you recognised thepandemic.WillthePrimeMinistercommittheGovernment their “desperate difficulties”, and that you would take to supporting this initiative, so that we can work towards up the matter “personally” with me. Their difficulties are finding a cure for this devastating disease? still desperate and you have not taken this up personally with me. In the interim we have developed new medicines, The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend very much distributed them around the country and given them for raising this important question and for championing to people who need them, free of charge. Why are we research into motor neurone disease, and I thank him discriminating against these children? What are they—are also for raising the excellent work of the My Name’5 they worth less than the general public? Will the Prime Doddie Foundation. We have spent £54 million in the Minister move to make medical cannabis available to last five years towards this cause, and we are looking children with epilepsy? If you could please, Prime Minister, at ways significantly to boost the research that we are take this opportunity personally, five minutes of your supporting. time today could go a long, long way. The Prime Minister: I am very happy to do whatever [913876] Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab) [V]: A year into this crisis and more than 126,000 lives have we can to meet the hon. Gentleman and take the matter been lost. Behind that staggering figure are millions forward, but the Dutch Government, I am told, have grieving for their loved ones. In my family, we have lost confirmed they will allow the continued supply of Bedrocan an entire generation. I could not hold my mum’s hand oil against UK prescriptions until at least the summer— as she lay dying, and I recently lost both my father and Ronnie Cowan: Until July. mother-in-law within just days of one another. Grieving families like mine want and deserve to understand what The Prime Minister: Until July, as the hon. Gentleman happened and whether anything could have been done says. My right hon. Friend the Health Secretary is working to prevent this tragedy. Will the Prime Minister today to find a permanent solution and I have no doubt that commit to launching a full public inquiry into the handling he will be very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman. of the pandemic as soon as current restrictions are lifted? Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con) [V]: Given the past 12 months I, like many others, would not want the job The Prime Minister: I want to say to the hon. Gentleman of Prime Minister, even for all the tea in China. However, that I know that the whole House shares my sympathies the job does give opportunities to directly improve the and my sorrow for his loss, and we sympathise also with lives of people who are very, very sick. March is Brain his entire family. I know that his experience is one, as Tumour Awareness Month and over 100,000 people have he rightly said, that has been shared by far too many signed a Brain Tumour Research petition calling for the families up and down the country. That is why, as soon Government to match brain tumour research funding as it is right to do so, as soon as it would not be an with that for other devastating cancers. We know from irresponsible diversion of the energies of the key officials covid that properly funded research really can bring involved, we are of course committed to an inquiry, to improved care, treatment and a cure. Will my friend the learn the lessons, to make sure that something like this Prime Minister meet me to receive the petition, when it can never happen again. is safe to do so?

Mr Speaker: Can I just try and push us through to get The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed. I congratulate my through the list? hon. Friend on what he is doing to champion research into brain cancer.I know,from activists in my constituency, [913887] Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) where Centre of Hope runs the Hillingdon brain tumour (Con): On 3 May, Wembley is scheduled to host the and injury group, how vital it is, because too often finals of the FA Vase and FA Trophy—not from this people do not appreciate the number of people who are season, but delayed a year from the last one. But that the victims of brain tumours. We have put another date means that no fans can go, even though a trip to £40 million into brain tumour research and we are Wembley to follow their team is like a holy grail, especially certainly going to put more. I look forward to meeting for the smaller clubs. The MPs for the clubs involved—the my hon. Friend. 917 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 918

[913880] Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab) Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con): Before [V]: My constituents Ronald and Julia Sheriff’s daughter the Prime Minister became Prime Minister, we had a Danielle currently lives in Gran Canaria. Last year, discussion to do with the prescribed medical use of aged just 33, she suffered an aneurysm. Danielle remains cannabis, and how it was helping to save really seriously deeply unwell and her family are crowdfunding to bring ill children—not hundreds or thousands, but about 150. her back home to live. They have been advised that We changed the law in November 2018 to make it legal when she does return home, she will not be eligible for for those prescriptions to be written by top consultants. the treatment that she needs on the NHS. Please can the Today, we have three children who have it free on the Prime Minister support the crowdfund for Dani, and NHS, and about 150 children whose families have to give his personal assurance that she will receive the care beg and borrow and remortgage their homes so that that she needs from our NHS? they can pay about £2,000 a month. I say to the Prime Minister that this is wrong. As a father, like I am, we The Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Lady for raising would do everything possible for our families, and these the case. My deepest sympathies are with Danielle and families are doing everything possible for their children. her family. I will make sure that the relevant Health Can we have a follow-up meeting to the one in 2018, Minister meets her to discuss the case as fast as possible. where I will bring one of the mothers who gets it free—not to stop her getting it free, but to explain to the Kelly Tolhurst (Rochester and Strood) (Con) [V]: Prime Minister how wrong it is that children’s lives are Forty years on from my predecessor Dame Peggy Fenner’s going to be lost if we have to go through the process opposition to the closure of Chatham dockyard, with that the NHS is proposing? the loss of thousands of jobs, I am now opposing the closure of what today is Chatham docks, with the loss The Prime Minister: This is the second time I have of over 1,000 skilled jobs. Closing this regionally important been asked about this; I thank my right hon. Friend asset, home to successful maritime and construction very much, and he is right to raise it. We will make sure businesses—all growing, in spite of covid—to make that we have a proper meeting with the Department of way for flats represents short-term profit for the landowner Health so that we can resolve the issue of how to make at the expense of long-term economic and environmental sure that the supply of the Bedrocan or the cannabis-based benefit. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me, local products that are coming from Holland can be made councillors and the “Save Chatham Docks” campaign secure, and can continue. that coastal infrastructure plays a significant role in the growth of our local economies, creating jobs and clean [913883] Dawn Butler (Brent Central) (Lab): I personally maritime technology that contributes to our net zero thank you, Mr Speaker, for your support for Parliament’s ambition? covid memorial quilt. Prime Minister, after PMQs, I will be presenting my The Prime Minister: Yes. One of the reasons we put cross-party private Member’s Bill, the Coronavirus (No. 2) £24 billion into defence alone is that it drives 400,000 Bill, to Parliament. It is based on scientific advice, Scientific jobs around the country, including the building of new Advisory Group for Emergencies guidance, and lessons frigates and new ships of all kinds. I hope very much learned. Will the Prime Minister please commit to reading that Chatham will benefit from the £100 million funding this Bill and providing me with a written response, we put in on 24 December to rejuvenate coastal towns. maybe by tomorrow—I know that is a bit of an ask—but, The planning issue my hon. Friend raises is a matter for if not, within the next two weeks? the local council, but I do hope a solution can be found that gives the benefits that she describes for the local The Prime Minister: I am very happy to make that community. commitment.

[913881] Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab) [V]: Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con) [V]: To paraphrase the Last night, I met again with leaseholders whose lives late, great, much missed Eric Forth, I believe in individual have been torn apart by the cladding and building freedoms and individual responsibility. I believe that safety scandal. The Prime Minister will recall that he individuals make better decisions for themselves, their told the House on 3 February that families and their communities than the state makes for “no leaseholder should have to pay for the unaffordable costs of them. I loathe the nanny state, and I believe in cutting fixing safety defects that they did not cause and are no fault of taxes. Prime Minister, am I still a Conservative? their own.”—[Official Report, 3 February 2021; Vol. 688, c. 945.] No ifs, no buts: an unequivocal pledge. The Government’s The Prime Minister: Yes. measures so far fall well short of fulfilling it, so could the Prime Minister say now not what has been done, but [913886] Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP) [V]: We learned what he will do to deliver his promise? today—unfortunately, from the media, rather than a Minister—that the Treasury has informed the Office for The Prime Minister: In addition to the £3.5 billion of Veterans’ Affairs that its budget is to be cut by 40%, investment that we have provided to remediate the from £5 million to £3 million. This cannot be right, as cladding and the £1.6 billion that we have already done, just yesterday Graeme Dey,the SNP Scottish Government’s we are providing a new scheme for leaseholders in the Veterans Minister, announced a further £1 million to lower-risk buildings of, I think, the kind that the hon. support Scottish veterans alone. These disparate positions Gentleman is describing, to pay for unsafe remediation are irreconcilable. This is a tale of two Governments, so over the long term. There will also be a new levy and will the Prime Minister follow the SNP’s lead and tax on developers, so that they also contribute to the assure the House today that he will not allow this cut to remediation costs. UK funding for veterans? 919 Oral Answers 24 MARCH 2021 Oral Answers 920

ThePrimeMinister:NotonlywasthisthefirstGovernment [913888] Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab): The Government to create a Veterans Minister specifically with a charge are saying that the community renewal fund is a fantastic of looking after veterans, and not only have we invested opportunity for Wales, yet Bridgend county is not listed in them, but we have taken steps to protect our armed as a priority place for the fund. On 10 February at the services veterans from vexatious litigation, pursued by Dispatch Box, the Prime Minister invented a world-leading lefty lawyers of a kind sitting not a million miles away battery plant for Bridgend in response to the significant from me today, who pursue them long after they have job losses we have faced across my county borough in served Queen and country and when no new evidence the last two years, something the Prime Minister has has been provided. We tried to protect them, we have still refused to apologise to my constituents for. When protected them and the Labour party voted against it. will he stop treating my constituents as an afterthought, keep true to his promise of not a penny less for Wales Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con) and ensure that he brings real investment to my constituents [V]: The Prime Minister has always enjoyed his visits to in Ogmore? my constituency of North West Leicestershire, whether it is Ashby-de-la-Zouch on the eve of the historic The Prime Minister: I can tell the hon. Gentleman referendum or Castle Rock School, Coalville last August. that, in Ogmore and across Wales, the people of Wales He will therefore be pleased, but not surprised, that and the Welsh Government will receive an additional Leicestershire County Council for the last three years £5.2 billion of resource funding, on top of the spring has been the most productive county authority in the Budget funding of 2020-21; £800 million of the levelling country, despite also being the lowest funded. Can my up fund is going to the devolved nations; and each local right hon. Friend assure all the residents of Leicestershire authority in Wales—each local authority in Wales—will that our Conservative-controlled county council will receive £125,000 in capacity funding. I look forward to imminently benefit from fairer funding and the working with him and with Welsh local government to Government’s levelling-up agenda so that it can continue deliver those improvements. to deliver excellent public services?

The Prime Minister: Yes. I thank Leicestershire County Mr Speaker: That was the final question, and I am Council for the way it is conducting itself and for now suspending the House for three minutes to enable delivering value for money. That is what the elections the necessary arrangements before we start the next that are coming up in May are all going to be about, business. and invariably these Conservatives deliver better value, deliver better services and lower taxes. That is what 12.44 pm Leicestershire County Council has done, and I congratulate it on it. I fully agree with what my hon. Friend has said. Sitting suspended. 921 24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 922

New Plan for Immigration The persistent failure to enforce our laws and immigration rules, with a system that is open to gaming by economic migrants and exploitation by criminals, is eroding public 12.48 pm trust and disadvantaging vulnerable people who need The Secretary of State for the Home Department our help. That is why our new plan for immigration is (Priti Patel): I wish to make a statement on our new driven by three fair but firm objectives: first, to increase plan for immigration. The Government have taken back the fairness of our system, so we can protect and control of legal immigration by ending free movement support those in genuine need of asylum; secondly, to and introducing a points-based immigration system. deter illegal entry into the UK, breaking the business We are now addressing the challenge of illegal migration model of people smugglers and protecting the lives of head-on. those they endanger; and, thirdly, to remove more easily I am introducing the most significant overhaul of our from the UK those with no right to be here. Let me take asylum system in decades—a new, comprehensive, fair each in turn. but firm long-term plan—because while people are First, we will continue to provide safe refuge to those dying we have a responsibility to act. People are dying in need, strengthening support for those arriving through at sea, in lorries and in shipping containers, having put safe and legal routes. People coming to the UK through their lives into the hands of criminal gangs that facilitate resettlement routes will be granted indefinite leave to illegal journeys to the UK. To stop the deaths, we must remain. They will receive more support to learn English, stop the trade in people that causes them. find work and integrate. I will also act to help those who have suffered injustices by amending British nationality Our society is enriched by legal immigration. Wecelebrate law, so that members of the Windrush generation will those who have come to the UK lawfully and have be able to obtain British citizenship more easily. helped to build Britain. We always will. Since 2015, we have resettled almost 25,000 men, women and children Secondly,this plan marks a step change in our approach seeking refuge from persecution across the world—more as we toughen our stance to deter illegal entry and the than any other EU country. We have welcomed more criminals who endanger life by enabling it. To get to the than 29,000 close relatives through refugee family reunion UK, many illegal arrivals have travelled through a safe and created a pathway to citizenship to enable over country such as France, where they could and should 5 million people in Hong Kong to come to the UK. have claimed asylum. We must act to reduce the pull Nobody can say that the British public are not fair or factors of our system and disincentivise illegal entry. generous when it comes to helping those in need, but For the first time, whether people enter the UK legally the British public also recognise that for too long parts or illegally will have an impact on how their asylum of the immigration system have been open to abuse. claim progresses and on their status in the UK if that claim is successful. Wewill deem their claim as inadmissible At the heart of our new plan for immigration is a and make every effort to remove those who enter the simple principle: fairness. Access to the UK’s asylum UK illegally having travelled through a safe country system should be based on need, not the ability to pay first in which they could and should have claimed asylum. people smugglers. If someone enters the UK illegally Only where removal is not possible will those who have from a safe country such as France, where they should successful claims, having entered illegally, receive a new and could have claimed asylum, they are not seeking temporary protection status. This is not an automatic refuge from persecution, as is the intended purpose of right to settle—they will be regularly reassessed for removal the asylum system; instead, they are choosing the UK —and will include limited access to benefits and limited as their preferred destination and they are doing so at family reunion rights. Our tough new stance will also the expense of those with nowhere else to go. include: new maximum life sentences for people smugglers Our system is collapsing under the pressures of parallel and facilitators; new rules to stop unscrupulous people illegal routes to asylum, facilitated by criminal smugglers. posing as children; and strengthening enforcement powers The existence of parallel routes is deeply unfair,advantaging for Border Force. those with the means to pay smugglers over those in Thirdly, we will seek to rapidly remove those with no desperate need. The capacity of our asylum system is right to be here in the UK, establishing a fast-track not unlimited, so the presence of economic migrants, appeals process, streamlining the appeals system and which these illegal routes introduce, limit our ability to making quicker removal decisions for failed asylum properly support others in genuine need of protection. seekers and dangerous foreign criminals. We will tackle This is manifestly unfair to those desperately waiting to the practice of meritless claims that clog up the courts be resettled in the UK. It is not fair to the British people with last-minute claims and appeals—a fundamental either, whose taxes pay for vital public services and for unfairness that lawyers tell me frustrates them, too—because an asylum system that has skyrocketed in cost—it is for too long, our justice system has been gamed. Almost costing over £1 billion this year. three quarters of migrants in detention raised last-minute, There were more than 32,000 attempts to enter the new claims, or challenges or other issues, with over UK illegally in 2019, with 8,500 people arriving by eight in 10 of these eventually being denied as valid small boat in 2020. Of those, 87% were men and 74% were reasons to stay in the UK. Enough is enough. Our new aged between 18 and 39. We should ask ourselves: plan sets out a one-stop process to require all claims to where are the vulnerable women and children that this be made upfront—no more endless, meritless claims to system should exist to protect? The system is becoming frustrate removal; no more stalling justice. Our new system overwhelmed: 109,000 claims are sitting in the asylum will be faster and fairer and will help us better support queue. Some 52,000 are awaiting an initial asylum decision, the most vulnerable. with almost three quarters of those waiting a year or Our new plan builds on the work already done to more. Some 42,000 failed asylum seekers have not left take back control of our borders, building a system that the country, despite having had their claim refused. upholds our reputation as a country where criminality 923 New Plan for Immigration24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 924 is not rewarded, but which is a haven for those in need. helping criminal gangs escape justice. Ministers have There are no quick fixes or shortcuts to success, but this abolished the Department for International Development, long-term plan, pursued doggedly, will fix our broken the very Department that helped address the forces that system. drive people from their homes in the first place—war, We know that Members of the Opposition would poverty and persecution. prefer a different plan—one that embraces the idea of Not only are Government plans lacking in compassion, open borders. Many of them were reluctant to end free but the Government do not even have the competence movement, with Members opposite on record as having to explain how their plans would work. A central part said that all immigration controls are racist or sexist. of the measures briefed out by the Government relies And to those who say we lack compassion, I simply say on new international agreements, yet the Home Secretary that while people are dying, we must act to deter these could not mention one of those agreements that have journeys, and if they do not like our plan, where is been concluded this morning. Sources close to the theirs? Home Secretary have briefed out ridiculous, inhumane This Government promised to take a common-sense schemes such as processing people on Ascension Island, approach to controlling immigration, legal and illegal, over 4,000 miles away, and wave machines in the English and we will deliver on that promise. The UK is playing channel to drive back boats. When the Government its part to tackle the inhumanity of illegal migration recently briefed out plans for Gibraltar and the Isle of and, today, I will press for global action at the G6. Man, they were dismissed within hours. I commend this statement to the House. The proposals also show that the Government have not woken up to the urgent need to protect the UK 12.57 pm against the pandemic and support our health and social Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab): I am grateful care system to rebuild. We have heard the Prime Minister to the Home Secretary for her statement and for advance this week be dangerously complacent about a third sight of it. She said in her statement that the asylum wave of covid from Europe, and the threat of new variants system is broken, and she talked about a persistent continues to grow, yet none of the UK Government failure of the rules. They are stark admissions for a plans includes measures desperately required to protect Conservative Home Secretary whose party has been in the UK. We need world-leading border protections power for 11 years. against covid, including a comprehensive hotel quarantine system, yet throughout this pandemic the Government The truth is, we have seen Conservative failure across have done too little, too late. The proposals do nothing the board. The Home Secretary mentioned the Windrush to address the recruitment crisis in the health and social generation, while this Government presides over a care system, where urgent changes are needed to help compensation scheme that their own figures show has recruit the medical and social care staff to deal with covid helped only 338 people. Then there is the asylum processing and NHS waiting lists. system, which is appallingly slow.The share of applications that received an initial decision within six months fell The reality is that the measures outlined today will do from 87% in 2014 to just 20% in 2019. There is no point next to nothing to stop people making dangerous crossings, blaming others. This is the fault of Conservative Ministers and they risk withdrawing support from desperate people. and a failure of leadership at the Home Office, and there TheConservativeshaveundoubtedlybrokentheimmigration has not been the progress we need on the promised system over the last 11 years, but the reality today is that agreement with France on dealing with appalling criminal they have absolutely no idea how to fix it. gangs and rises in the horrific crime of human trafficking. Yes, the Government policy is defined by a lack of Priti Patel: First, let me take the right hon. Gentleman’s compassion and a lack of competence, and I am afraid distasteful comparisons to Windrush head-on. Members that the plans outlined by the Government today look of the Windrush generation came to the UK lawfully to like they are going to continue in exactly the same vein. help rebuild Britain, and they were wronged by successive No wonder the plans outlined have been described as Governments, including Labour Governments. It is simply “inhumane” by the British Red Cross. They risk baking insulting to attempt to draw parallels between them and into the UK system the callousness, frankly, of this those entering our country unlawfully. Government’s approach. No wonder, either, that the Not only are this Government ensuring that Windrush United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has victims receive compensation—the compensation that expressed concerns about the Government’sunderstanding they deserve—but today I am announcing new measures of international law. The Home Secretary spoke today to fix historical anomalies in British nationality law to about the importance of safe and legal routes, yet the ensure that members of the Windrush generation can resettlement scheme was suspended, and the Dubs scheme receive British citizenship more easily.That is a Conservative was shamefully closed down after accepting just 480 Home Secretary, and a Conservative Prime Minister unaccompanied children rather than the 3,000 expected. and Government, righting these wrongs. As I have set [Interruption.] The Immigration Minister,the hon. Member out previously in the House, the Home Office is absolutely for Torbay (Kevin Foster), continues to shout at me; he committed to supporting victims of the Windrush cannot hide from the Government’s record of the last generation, and that is why today I have launched the 11 years. And the Government looked the other way biggest and most wide-ranging consultation when it comes last summer; rather than help children stuck in the to this new plan for immigration. burning refugee camp of Lesbos, they turned the other Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman commented on way. the record of Conservatives in government, so let me At the same time, these changes risk making the just set out some facts for him. From the expulsion of situation even worse for victims of human trafficking, Ugandan Asians, such as my own family members, as it would be even harder to access help in the UK, from a repressive regime; to proudly resettling more 925 New Plan for Immigration24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 926

[Priti Patel] that could be used to tackle inequalities in areas such as the “lost city” in Tipton, and give kids on that estate the refugees than any other EU country, as he heard me say chances to succeed. The broader issue is this: our European in my statement; to supporting campaigners fleeing neighbours need to step up. It is as simple as that. Will political persecution in Hong Kong—that is the record my right hon. Friend reassure my constituents in of Conservatives when it comes to humanitarianism. Wednesbury, Oldbury and Tipton, who have put their Under the Conservative leadership of this Government, faith in her, that she will continue to make the point to the United Kingdom will always provide sanctuary to our European neighbours that they have got to step up? people who are having the light switched off on their It is not fair on the United Kingdom to take the lion’s own liberty and personal freedoms, and this new plan share of protecting some of the most vulnerable people will build on that. in our society. Thirdly, I am quite astonished by the tone of the right Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We hon. Gentleman’s comments, repeatedly suggesting that are a compassionate nation, and we stand by everything we just turn a blind eye to people attempting to come we do when it comes to providing humanity and protection into our country illegally—people being smuggled in to individuals who are being persecuted. He has made small boats and in the back of lorries. He will well know the point incredibly well on behalf of his constituents, that we in this House have stood too often to hear about and we will continue—as I will today with the G6, our the tragedy of people who have died, whether in the channel international counterparts, and across European Union or the back of refrigerated lorries. I will not apologise member states—to say that they also need to do more. for being abundantly clear that an illegal journey to the Until they do, people will continue to die. We all have UK is not worth the risk. That is what this plan is about: this collective responsibility. tackling illegal migration, protecting lives, and, of course, alongside that creating new routes. Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP) [V]: Finally, the right hon. Gentleman accuses me and the There is so much wrong with these proposals that Government of lacking compassion. He accuses me of distilling it into two minutes is impossible. What person taking an inhumane approach. I suggest politely to him and what Government with an ounce of compassion or that he should not resort to personal attacks of that nature. respect for international law would even consider casting I, and my own family in particular, understand what vulnerable people off to an island using an offshoring oppression is like and, after fleeing persecution, sought system that, in Australia’s case, has been described by refuge in the United Kingdom, just like millions of others the UN as an affront to “common decency”? Who, with who have successfully rebuilt their lives. That lack of any regard to the rule of law, would limit the right to substance is not surprising, because the Labour party appeal? The high success rate of asylum appeals clearly has no plans to fix the broken system. In fact, I understand shows that the Home Office is getting these decisions that last night, the Labour party’s response to my plan wrong too often. was very much to look at my plan. As long as Labour Are we or are we not still a signatory to the UN Members are devoid of a plan of substance, they are refugee convention? Is the Home Secretary aware of defending a broken system that is encouraging illegal article 31, which prohibits penalising someone for the migration and supporting criminality.They are defending way in which they reached a country or, for that matter, a system that is enabling an established criminal trade in arriving so-called illegally? Does she know that nowhere asylum seekers, and causing human misery. It is a system in there does it say that someone cannot transit through that disregards the world’s most vulnerable, elbowing another country to get here? That was never the intention women and children to the side. It is a system that all of the convention, and to say it is is simply untrue. Does too often, as I have seen, results in the tragic loss of life. she remember that Nicholas Winton—rightly hailed as A family of five drowned on their way to this country— a hero for rescuing hundreds of children from Nazi our country—only last year; in 2019, 39 victims were refugee camps—was reported to have forged documents found dead in Purfleet in the back of a refrigerated because the Home Office was too slow? Those children lorry. That is inhumane. If the right hon. Gentleman would today be classed as illegal and he would be a and the Labour party are prepared to be associated criminal, but he was a hero, because he recognised that with that criminal trade in asylum seeking and human desperate people have no choice, and the same is true misery, he is the one who lacks compassion. That is not today for many who reach our shores. a position that we will take, and I will not be complicit The Home Secretary should be ashamed to make this in defending the indefensible on that basis. statement today. There is nothing pretty about this—it Finally, it is extraordinary to hear lectures about our is ugly dog-whistle politics, and I can tell her that the border from the right hon. Gentleman and the Labour SNP wants no part in it. More importantly, Scotland party, when it is still official Labour party policy to will not live with the associated shame of this. Scotland maintain and extend free movement rights, as per its recognises its international and moral obligations, but party conference motion. In effect, that is to have open we also recognise that we are prevented by the UK borders. We are the only party that is prepared to tackle Government from living up to them. I despair for those illegal migration, show compassion to those who have having to live under this toxic environment, and I will been trafficked in the world, and create safe and legal always offer my solidarity, but I will also work even routes, so that we help to save lives. harder to ensure that Scotland votes yes to independence, so that we at least can continue to treat vulnerable Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con) [V]: I people with compassion and dignity. welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement because, just like my constituents, I am angry at the images we are Priti Patel: First, I refer the hon. Lady to my statement. seeing of small boats coming into the channel, and the If she had bothered to listen to it, she would have heard skyrocketing costs of our asylum system—resources a compelling case for stopping people trafficking, stopping 927 New Plan for Immigration24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 928 illegal migration and creating safe and legal routes— of the reason, as the right hon. Lady knows—we have something that I would have thought she would warmly discussed it at the Home Affairs Committee—and as welcome. many hon. Members know, having been reminded of it Secondly, it seems to me that the nationalist party in again and again and again, the Government are absolutely Scotland needs to do much more to walk the talk when committed, as the record shows, to resettling children, it comes to resettling refugees and working with the and to family reunion rights. Government to house individuals who are fleeing That is absolutely right, and we are doing that. We persecution. Sadly, that work is not taking place— are committed to that, but through safe and legal routes. [Interruption.] I can see that the hon. Lady is making We need to create new routes, and not just from the some gestures towards me. If she would like to come camps in Greece. The right hon. Lady will know as into the Home Office and have discussions about well—I have been to many myself—that within regions, resettlement schemes and routes in constituencies, I where there are wars and conflict, we need to create safe would be more than happy to look at that. Our Ministers and legal routes, and not just from the Mediterranean. would be delighted to welcome her into the Department Too manypeople have been smuggled to that Mediterranean for that conversation. route. We need to do much more in-country, and in some Finally, the hon. Lady speaks about our plans not of those terrible zones. I hope that she would support being in line with the refugee convention. Again, I this work on that basis. would like to correct her. Our new plan for immigration is in line with our international obligations, including Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): As my right hon. the refugee convention. She will know that the refugee Friend is aware, many asylum seekers are being housed convention does allow for differentiated treatment where, in hotels in central London, and many hundreds in my for example—[Interruption.] she can shake her head, constituency.Will she assure me that today’sannouncement but perhaps she would like to listen—refugees have not will speed up the asylum process, that those who are come directly from a country of persecution. successful will be resettled and those who are not will be quickly returned, and that we can get the numbers in John Howell (Henley) (Con) [V]: I welcome particularly hotels down to zero? what my right hon. Friend is proposing to deal with people smuggling, but this is a bigger problem than Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. She is simply the EU. Council of Europe members are dealing well versed in this, in fact, and I thank her for the way with this right across the Mediterranean and from the she has worked with Ministers, and with me and the middle east. Will she join me in sharing her approach Home Office, on this issue of accommodation in her with members of the Council of Europe as an example constituency. She and other Members will know that the of what can be done? hotel policy is very much linked to the pandemic, because we have not been able to utilise regular accommodation Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I anddispersalaccommodation,andso,alongwithcontingency, commend him for the work that he has been doing with we have been using hotels. the Council of Europe. In the past, we have had many conversations about this issue and about people, ways There is another point to make here, which is about of working and upstream issues around illegal migration. the processes that we have to look at cases. We are going He is right to highlight the issue around the Mediterranean. to change the end-to-end system. There is a reform Too many people have died, tragically, under the most package in place, including digitalisation of caseworking, appalling circumstances. I would be more than happy to faster assessments, and all sorts of work on that basis, work with him on how we pursue this further. so I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): (Lab) [V]: Safe Passage reports increasingly long waits Can the Home Secretary tell us when the first refugees for child and teen refugees in camps in Greece and will be allowed to enter the UK under her new scheme, elsewhere to be able to reunite with family in the UK and how many will be settled each year? who could care for them since the Dublin and Dubs schemes were ended. Ministers promised us that they Priti Patel: The right hon. Gentleman will know that would put in place safe legal routes in replacement, but today’s paper, the new immigration plan, is a consultation they have not done so, and things are not working. document. It is a Command Paper, so we are consulting Talking about safe legal routes is not good enough if and we will work with everybody who wants to work they do not materialise in practice. Does the Home with us constructively on this. It will be subject to new Secretary not accept that, especially when it comes to legislation, and he will know the processes, but we as a vulnerable children and teenagers, a lack of safe legal Government are absolutely committed. We are already routes to rejoin family will drive more of them into the in discussion right now with partner organisations that arms of dangerous people traffickers and make the we can work with on safe and legal routes. That is situation much worse? essential, because 80 million people are displaced in the world, seeking refuge. We have a moral responsibility Priti Patel: If the right hon. Lady had heard my and an obligation to do the right thing and stand by statement, she would have heard some figures about those who are fleeing persecution, while at the same those who are being trafficked right now. They are time working not only other with partners but with predominantly single men. She makes a very valid and other countries to ensure that they raise the bar too. important point, which supports the case for safe and legal routes, around children in particular. This is not Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): This is a fantastic plan just about camps in Greece, and let us not forget, of to fix our broken asylum system. The plan prioritises course, that we have been in a pandemic, which is part help to those most in need with safe and legal routes. 929 New Plan for Immigration24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 930

[Jacob Young] working with our counterparts—I have already mentioned the G6—to pursue this with greater vigour. The principle It will stop the deaths in the channel and in lorries of that my hon. Friend raises is fundamentally correct. people attempting illegal entry, and deter those who abuse the system and jump the queue, particularly with Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab) [V]: This a new age assessment process. It also introduces new life cynical announcement is built on the availability of safe sentences for the real criminals in all this: the people and legal routes. This morning, the Home Secretary smugglers.However,myconstituentswillrightlyask,“When?” claimed, “We have safe and legal routes, and we have a Can she outline the timetable for the implementation of programme called the Syrian refugee resettlement scheme”. the plan, and how they can get involved? But she will know that the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement scheme actually finished at the end of Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for his constructive February, as its quota was filled. There are no details of tone and comments. The plan is subject to consultation. how the new UK resettlement scheme will work, so could It should be a people’s consultation. The British public, the Home Secretary tell us how many people it will take, with the publication today, should absolutely join the explain how it will operate and outline, for example, the consultation, and I encourage all Members to get their process available to a refugee from what is currently the constituents on board. At the end of the consultation, world’s worst conflict, in Yemen? we will obviously draft a Bill and bring it to Parliament for a second session. Priti Patel: I will not take any lectures from hon. Gentleman about resettlement schemes, when this Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Streatham) (Lab) [V]: The 1951 Government have successfully resettled 25,000 people convention relating to the status of refugees and its through that resettlement scheme—[Interruption.] He 1967 protocol state that anyone seeking asylum should shakes his head, but it is true. I have made it quite clear be able to claim in their intended destination or another that we are in discussion with partner agencies already. safe country,but the Government’snew plan discriminates That work is under way. He can shake his head and be by distinguishing between people fleeing the same as dismissive as he chooses to be, but if he bothered to persecution based on their route or on their mode of read the new immigration plan, he would see the details transport. Does the Home Secretary realise that, under of exactly how we will start to introduce new safe and the new plan, trafficked women, LGBTQ people, and legal routes through legislation. those fleeing political and religious persecution will be left with limited options? Rather than expanding safe Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): Yarl’s and legal routes, the plan could actually leave more of Wood detention centre in my constituency was set up those seeking family reunion at the mercy of people under a Labour Government in 2001, and is a manifestation smugglers. The plan does not meet the needs of the of the historical weaknesses of our immigration processes most vulnerable, so can she explain how she reconciles and, in particular, how they have failed women. As my this obvious misrepresentation of our obligations under right hon. Friend knows, women asylum seekers are international law? more likely to be individually targeted as victims of gender-based violence, forced marriage—sometimes to very powerful people—or rape as an instrument of war. Priti Patel: First of all, I advise the hon. Lady to Will my right hon. Friend please assure me that her actually read the immigration plan, because she will see reforms will provide a fairer and more effective assessment that it is in line with international obligations, including of such cases? the refugee convention. Secondly, she has spoken about categories of individuals—people seeking to flee who Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and will be persecuted for who they are and for their values. this is why we have to fix the system. We are currently They will, of course, be covered under our safe and not able to safeguard and protect those who absolutely legal routes scheme, so she is completely wrong in her need that help and support. The categories that the plan misrepresentations. covers include women—women who have been treated abhorrently, quite frankly, in conflict zones, as well as Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con) [V]: My those who have been trafficked and who have had had constituents and I in Rother Valley welcome strong the most awful crimes undertaken against them. Some action in tackling illegal, dangerous migration. I know of these women are also used in modern-day slavery; that my right hon. Friend and her Department are how we protect victims of that is also a feature of the working tirelessly to bring the criminals facilitating the new immigration plan. My hon. Friend is absolutely right illegal channel crossings to justice, and to tackle this and we will definitely be looking at all of that. exploitative crime. Does she agree that there is no justifiable reason for migrants to be making this crossing, Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP) [V]: and putting themselves and our Border Force in danger, Now that the Home Secretary is planning on deporting when staying in France remains a perfectly safe and even more asylum seekers than previously, will she right option for them? address the lack of transparency in the content and scope of the UK Government’s existing returns and Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right; I readmission agreements, as well as those under negotiation? thank him for his question. People should claim asylum Will she give an undertaking to remedy that lack of in the first safe country they arrive in. That is the point clarity and to publish the agreements for scrutiny? Will that we are making again and again. They are currently she also confirm that it is not the Government’s intention in the hands of people traffickers and smugglers, and to send people back to countries where there is a real are, quite frankly, being duped into false promises and risk that they will face torture or inhuman, degrading false hope. There is no doubt whatever that we will be treatment or punishment? 931 New Plan for Immigration24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 932

Priti Patel: I am always interested in the hon. and Ben Bradley (Mansfield) (Con) [V]: I welcome the learned Lady’s comments, particularly in the light of measures my right hon. Friend has laid out today, the way in which she caucuses and campaigns against which will be warmly welcomed by my constituents, flight removals, for example, as we have seen previously who just want to see a fairer system, both for people in when we have tried to remove foreign national offenders— genuine need and for UK taxpayers. The most obvious some of the most murderous people, with awful criminal example of that unfairness is the exploitation of people records—from our country. Of course I can guarantee who are paying human traffickers just to be pushed out that we will not be removing people to the parts of the into the channel in a dinghy, particularly when they are world to which she has referred, but I would also say coming from a safe country. Will she confirm that these that we are clear on the removal processes that we have, measures are intended to ensure that these crossings are the categories of individuals we remove, and the reasons no longer worth the risk and that she will be t increasing whywe remove them from the UK. They are predominantly penalties available to law enforcement to be able to tackle those who have failed in their claims, but alongside people smugglers head on? them are many foreign national offenders, who simply should not remain in our country. Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right; as I have said in my statement, we need to break this trade. Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): May That is vital, because people are being used in such an I start by saying that I, along with the people of Stoke- appalling way and human misery is being created. I have on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke, warmly welcome outlined already the increases in sentences that we will this new plan to fix our broken system? Currently, the be looking at—not only sentences for facilitators and UK is one of the only countries in Europe not to use people smugglers, but the new powers we will be looking scientific age assessment to determine a person’s age to give Border Force. when they enter the country. I am sure many hon. Friends and Members from across this House will have Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: heard the stories of fully grown adults coming to the Immigration is the most defining issue of a Government’s UK but claiming asylum as children. Does my right character: do they reach out to protect the most challenged hon. Friend therefore agree that this statement will people on earth or turn in on themselves? When a solve a very serious safeguarding risk for our young Government do not secure safe passage for people people? seeking asylum to come to the UK, criminal gangs will exploit them. Will the Home Secretary update the House Priti Patel: My hon. Friend raises such an important on what steps she is taking to ensure that her policy is question. It is sobering, because over the years we have not just about building higher walls for people to climb seen too many cases of adults posing as children. That over, but opening safer doors for people to walk through? is unscrupulous behaviour, and I say that because of the safeguarding risks that my hon. Friend highlights. He is Priti Patel: I suggest that the hon. Lady reads the “New right about the UK being one of the only countries; in Plan for Immigration”, because it is spelt out in there. Europe, they use scientific age assessment methods to determine a person’s age. Between 2016 and 2020, where Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Our present age has been disputed and resolved 54% of the people asylum system is a complete joke. Every young man involved were found to be adults, which presents a very living in misery in a failed state knows that if he serious safeguarding risk to our young people. manages to reach our shores, the chances of his being deported are virtually zero. There is no point in introducing Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab): This more and more penalties and laws unless we are prepared Government have form for lack of compassion towards to deport people. Is the Home Secretary prepared to do those who have fled horrors that we can only imagine, what Prime Minister Abbott of Australia did? He ensured from abandoning the Dubs child refugee scheme to the that all arrivals were put in a secure location and left broken system that is leaving asylum seekers in limbo there until their claims were assessed and then either for months, if not possibly years, and their having to go deported or allowed to stay, and there are now no unsafe to food banks because even the minimal support they arrivals in Australia, no deaths and no criminal gangs. are entitled to often is not arriving. So how can my That policy works. Is the Home Secretary prepared to constituents have any faith in this Government and be really tough in order to be kind? whether they have one iota of compassion? Priti Patel: As I have outlined already for my right Priti Patel: As I have said, I am simply not going to hon. Friend, this proposal is a long-term plan and it take lectures about the lack of compassion from the needs to be addressed in the component parts that I have hon. Lady or the Labour party at all. I have been outlined. For example, the legal system that we have abundantly clear about the reasons we have to tackle here, which frustrates deportations and removals, is a this system. She may be interested to know that there is very different system from the one in Australia. This is a not a single solution here; this is about end-to-end fair but firm system because we have to be firm in terms reform of the system. I know it might be an uncomfortable of removing those that have exhausted all their rights truth for her, but this does actually mean tackling the and should not be here. This equally applies to foreign backlog of cases, tackling the people smugglers and national offenders, which is part of the reason that I stopping the criminal trade in human misery. I am only have outlined already in the new immigration plan. sorry that she cannot see that, because the way in which we demonstrate compassion is by fixing the system and Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) supporting those who are in desperate need to come (Ind) [V]: The Home Secretary has spoken of efforts to here. strike agreements with countries outside Europe, with 933 New Plan for Immigration24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 934

[Margaret Ferrier] sentences for people smugglers. So that there can be no wriggle room in the justice system when these abhorrent the intention of returning legitimate asylum seekers criminals face justice, will she also look at introducing a simply because of their method of arrival in the UK. It very high minimum sentence so that the message goes is likely that those countries will be the same ones that out loud and clear that this is unacceptable and that we will seek trade deals with in the post-Brexit environment, those people will face the full force of the lawin this country? so will the Home Secretary tell us what discussions she has had with colleagues in the Foreign, Commonwealth Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely correct, and Development Office and the Department for because we have to have the right sanctions and deterrents International Trade about how those third-country in place so that these people smugglers’ model is broken agreements will impact on trade negotiations? up. Of course, that will be part of the consultation and I will absolutely work with my hon. Friend and others on Priti Patel: Let me assure the hon. Lady that this is the whole proposal. not just a Home Office policy. This is a policy across Government. She will already have heard me speak about Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP) [V]: It the Ministry of Justice and resetting the judicial framework, is shocking to see some of the overcrowded and squalid and we will work with the FCDO on removals. That is accommodation, including in military barracks, that is always something that we have done in the Home Office, used to house asylum seekers. Safe accommodation for and we will continue to work with them when it comes vulnerable people is critical in any compassionate and to our bilateral agreements on returns and removals. effective asylum system, but particularly in the middle of a pandemic. How does the Home Secretary plan, in her Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): reforms, to improve the quality of housing for people Like the overwhelming majority of my North West Durham seeking asylum? constituents, I want to see genuine refugees protected with safer legal routes so that we do not see people dying Priti Patel: The hon. Lady will absolutely know that in the channel or in lorries, but my constituents also in terms of the contingency accommodation that we want to see the vultures—the people smugglers who peddle have had to use because of the pandemic we have in human misery and the lawyers who spin out cases at looked at all sorts of options. On accommodation going the cost of hundreds of millions of pounds to the tax- forward, we use dispersed accommodation, and I come payereveryyear—stopped.Canmyrighthon.Friendconfirm back to the point about working with local authorities, that this plan will help genuine refugees and also take on which will be part of our discussions and consultations those who seek to abuse the current system? going forward. It is vital that we grow that footprint and I would be more than happy for the hon. Lady to Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When work with us in coming up with alternative proposals he looks at the new plan, he will see a chapter in the on accommodation. policy paper on the judicial reset that is required when it comes to the immigration tribunal, immigration bail Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): and the appeals process. We will streamline that and we I warmly welcome the proposals announced today, as will also deal with the wasted costs that British taxpayers will, I know,my constituents and those of the other south- are paying for. We want to use that resource to ensure coast constituencies in particular. I especially welcome that the money is going to those who are in need and the distinction between those people who are wealthy not just to those who are gaming the system. enough to pay to be illegally smuggled into this country and those genuine refugees who go through the right Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Home processes. Secretary for her statement. I agree that those seeking asylum must do so in the appropriate way and that On safe and legal routes, will my right hon. Friend those who smuggle illegal immigrants must face the full assure me that the successor to Dublin will be at least as extent of the justice system. However, I have a concern generous as Dublin in respect of the relatives it covers, over the role of children in these situations. A child has and that the process will be much more speedy in getting no say over whether they are brought over legally or people who are deemed to have a place in the UK here illegally, so will the Home Secretary outline what special as soon as possible? Will she also consider a Dubs II circumstances will be in place when it comes to children scheme? The Dubs scheme was so successful in rescuing and minors, who are totally innocent of deceit or of trying genuine endangered children from danger spots around to play the system? the world—it worked so well.

Priti Patel: The hon. Gentleman makes such an Priti Patel: I would be more than happy to meet my important point about vulnerability, and children in hon. Friend to discuss that further. We need to get this particular. We need to find the right way in which we right in terms of safeguarding children, and there is no can safeguard them, and that is exactly the work that we one-size-fits-all solution. Not only that, but we need to are going to undertake with partner agencies to look at learn the lessons of previous schemes and look at how bringing them not just from camps in Europe, because we can strengthen some of the aspects around resettlement, Europe is a safe continent, but in particular from those for example, that may not have been strong enough. I parts of the world where we are seeing the most appalling would be more than happy to have a conversation with levels of conflict, instability and persecution. my hon. Friend about it.

Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): I very much welcome Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab) [V]: Instead of the package of measures that my right hon. Friend has taking action to fix a broken and uncaring immigration brought forward today, particularly the maximum life system, the Government seem intent on abandoning 935 New Plan for Immigration24 MARCH 2021 New Plan for Immigration 936 their long-standing humanitarian obligations, including Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and the 1951 UN refugee convention. Does the Home Secretary I know he has raised concerns about this issue in the accept that the Government’s failure to improve the past. We have to break up the criminal trade in human range of safe and legal routes to the UK will in fact misery.Wewill continue to do everything possible through push more people into the hands of people traffickers the reforms that we are proposing today, which will go and increase the likelihood of tragedy in the English to public consultation, and then we want to bring in channel? new legislation to achieve the outcomes that we are outlining. Priti Patel: I am quite surprised by the hon. Gentleman’s statements and comments, bearing in mind that he has Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab) [V]: I not even had a look at the plan itself—that is quite clear have always believed that we have a duty to meet our to see—because to do nothing is not an option, because international obligations in a fair, firm and humanitarian people are dying. The proposals are in line with the way, but the current system is failing on all three of those. refugee convention, within international law and within It is important that we draw the distinction between the ECHR, so I recommend that rather than shaking legal migration, refugees, victims of people trafficking, his head the hon. Gentleman reads the proposals and and illegal immigration: they are all very different things. joins us in wanting to stop illegal people smuggling and The Home Office has announced plans to introduce to save lives. tougher age assessments. Can the Home Secretary confirm to the House that these new assessments will be sensitive Matt Vickers (Stockton South) (Con): I welcome my to disabilities, trauma and medical needs, as well as being right hon. Friend’s determination to prevent illegal carried out with dignity and respect? crossings and tackle the scourge of people smuggling. Does she agree that there is no justifiable reason for Priti Patel: The hon. Gentleman makes some valid migrants to cross the channel and put lives at risk when points about not just age assessments, but the categories France remains a perfectly safe option for them? of vulnerability that we are speaking about. We are launching a consultation today that he will be aware of, Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is and it is absolutely right that we give all due consideration absolutely the point: France and other countries across to the different needs of individuals, as well as the the EU member states are safe countries. People are not circumstances and the situations that they are fleeing. fleeing persecution in those countries and they should and could claim asylum in those countries. That is Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con): Never before effectively what we need to work harder to achieve. have we had a Home Secretary who has shown such determination to finally get a grip of our failed and ChristineJardine(EdinburghWest)(LD):Inherstatement, broken asylum system, and she deserves immense credit the Secretary of State said: for this statement. The residents of Blackpool are sick “We celebrate those who have come to the UK lawfully and and tired of the delaying tactics used by left-wing have helped to build Britain.” human rights lawyers to prevent the lawful removal of Will she assure us that while those people are awaiting failed asylum seekers. As a nation, we need to do far the Home Office processing their claims, they are enabled more to ensure that those who do not have a right to to contribute to the economy of the United Kingdom stay in the UK are deported. Can my right hon. Friend by working and paying income tax and national insurance, reassure me that the measures outlined today will help rather than having to subsist on the meagre handouts to achieve that? that barely allow them to eat? Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right on this. Priti Patel: The hon. Lady will be well aware of the This is a very significant part of the frustrations with rules in place for asylum seekers currently in the UK. If the system, and in fact, far too many predecessors in the I may say so, I remind the House that we are in a pandemic, Home Office have spoken about this as well. The reforms so there are restrictions in terms of accommodation, that we are outlining will mean a reset of the judicial movements and things of that nature. If the hon. Lady frame-workaroundnotjustillegalmigration,butimmigration: would like to be refreshed on those rules, I would be courts, bails, tribunals, and legal aid. We absolutely need more than happy to drop her a line. to grip this and bring about changes that will give justice to individuals who need the protection and support that Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con) we want to give them. [V]: One of the most common things that I hear on the doorsteps in Carshalton and Wallington is frustration Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I thank the about an immigration and asylum system that simply Home Secretary for her statement today,and for responding does not work, so I know that people will warmly to questions from the 30 Members on the call list. welcome the firm but fair plan set out by my right hon. We will now suspend for three minutes for the usual Friend. Will she assure me that this plan will both arrangements. tackle the criminal gangs that exploit vulnerable people and help to reduce the dangerous attempts to cross the 1.42 pm channel in small boats, in favour of safe and legal routes? Sitting suspended. 937 24 MARCH 2021 Liverpool City Council 938

Liverpool City Council I want to underline that the report is not a verdict on all the staff working at Liverpool City Council. In fact, 1.45 pm it commends the hard work and dedication of many. The report is also clear that the current chief executive, The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Tony Reeves, and statutory officers have taken positive Local Government (Robert Jenrick): With permission, remedial steps, and I wish to thank Tony for his dedication Mr Speaker, I wish to make a statement about Liverpool and service. Neither does it comment on the Liverpool City Council. City Region Combined Authority,Mayor Steve Rotheram, Merseyside police have been carrying out an investigation or other councils in Merseyside. involving a significant link with Liverpool City Council. Despite the good work undertaken by Mr Reeves, Last year,this led to arrests on suspicion of fraud, bribery, there is a clear picture showing that there has been a corruption, misconduct in public office and witness serious breakdown of governance at the council. If intimidation. On 17 December, I informed the House unchecked, it will allow improper conduct to persist, that, additionally,persuasive evidence had been presented further undermining public confidence and putting public tomeregardingthecouncil’splanning,highways,regeneration, services at risk. It will damage the city’s ability to attract property management functions and associated audit investment from reputable developers and investors for and governance arrangements. regeneration, or to take full advantage of new economic In light of that evidence, I commissioned Max Caller opportunities, such as the recent successful application to conduct a best value inspection of the council. I want for freeport status. to thank Max and his assistant inspectors, Vivienne Geary and Mervyn Greer,for their thorough and evidence- Expressed in formal terms, I am satisfied that the council based review. I have today placed a copy of their report is failing to comply with its best value duty. Therefore, I in the Library of the House. need to consider exercising my powers of intervention to secure compliance with the duty. To that end, in line The report paints a deeply concerning picture with the procedures laid down in the Local Government of mismanagement, the breakdown of scrutiny and Act 1999, I am writing today to the council asking it to accountability, and a dysfunctional culture, putting the make representations, both on the inspector’s report spending of public funds at risk and undermining the and on a proposed intervention package. This package city’seconomic development. The report identifies multiple is centred on putting in place commissioners, whom I apparent failures by Liverpool City Council in complying will appoint to exercise certain and limited functions of with its best value duty. This includes: a failure of proper the council as required for a minimum of three years. and due process across planning and regeneration, including a worrying lack of record keeping—indeed, documentation I am also proposing that the council will, under the had sometimes been created retrospectively, discarded oversight of the commissioners, prepare and implement in skips, or even destroyed—a lack of scrutiny and oversight an improvement plan. This would require the following across highways, including dysfunctional management provisions: within six months, to approve a suitable practices, no coherent business plan, and the awarding officer structure providing sufficient resources to deliver of dubious contracts; a failure of proper process relating the council’s functions in an effective way, including the to property management, including compliance with improvement plan and its monitoring and reporting; the council’s own standing orders, leading to a continued within 12 months, to review and change the council’s failure to correctly value land and assets, meaning that constitution; within 24 months, to conduct a review of taxpayers frequently lost out. When selling land, the the roles and case for continuing with each subsidiary report states that Liverpool City Council’s best interests company of Liverpool City Council; to create a detailed were not on the agenda. There were also poor governance structure and strategy for the highways function; to arrangements for council-operated companies and an establish a plan to deliver an effective file management overall environment of intimidation, described as one system; to implement a programme of cultural change, in which so both members and officers understand their roles, and “the only way to survive was to do what was requested without so that the council’s activities are regulated and governed, askingtoomanyquestionsorapplyingnormalprofessionalstandards.” and breaches are rectified swiftly; and to require the consent The review finds that there was a fundamental failure of commissioners before either member or officer level by members to understand and appreciate the basic agrees heads of terms for any property transaction and standards governing those in public service and, with subsequent consent before any legally binding commitment no regular ethics or standards committee and no means is entered into. of monitoring complaints effectively, there was no I also propose to direct that prior agreement of established way to hold those falling below those acceptable commissioners must be obtained to any dismissal or standards to account. suspension of statutory officers or the assistant director As a whole, the report is unequivocal that Liverpool of governance, audit and assurance, or equivalent. City Council has failed in numerous respects to comply Furthermore, any appointments to positions designated with its best value duty. It concludes that the council as a statutory officer or the head of internal audit must consistently failed to meet its statutory and managerial be conducted under the direction of, and to the satisfaction responsibilities and that the pervasive culture appeared of, the commissioners. to be “rule avoidance”. It further concludes that changes I hope and expect Liverpool City Council to take the need to be radical and delivered at pace, and that there lead in this path to improvement. However, given the was no confidence that the council itself would be able gravity of the inspection findings, I must consider what to implement these to any sensible timescale. There may would happen if the council fails to deliver the necessary also be further issues of which we are not yet aware, and changes at the necessary speed. I am consequently the report is careful not to speak to matters that might proposing to direct the transfer of all executive functions compromise the ongoing police investigation. associated with regeneration, highways and property 939 Liverpool City Council24 MARCH 2021 Liverpool City Council 940 management at the authority to the commissioners. This report raises grave and serious concerns about These are for use should the council not satisfy the decision making in key functions of Liverpool City commissioners in their improvement processes. As I say, Council. All councils are under an obligation to meet I hope it will not be necessary for the commissioners to their best value duty to ensure value for money at all use those powers, but they must, in my view,be empowered times. In these respects, Liverpool City Council has to do so to deliver the reforms that are required. The been found severely wanting. Labour, both here and our commissioners will report to me at six-monthly intervals leadership at the city council, accepts this report in full. on progress being made. The council will respond to the letter from the Secretary The report also considers the impact of the council’s of State in detail, but we support his intention to appoint cycle of elections, where every year is an election year, commissioners, not at this stage to run the council, as concluding that this system reduces scrutiny and inhibits he says, but to advise and support elected representatives long-term focus. It recommends that the council should in strengthening the council’s systems. move to “all-out elections”, and for the council’s size to This is a measured and appropriate approach. I want be reconsidered. Accordingly, I am also proposing to to reassure people in Liverpool that it does not mean use my powers under the Local Government Act 2000 that Government Ministers are coming in to run their to provide for Liverpool City Council to hold whole-council citydirectly.Thisisnot,assomewouldputit,aTorytakeover. elections for the first time from 2023. That will be in It is about the Government appointing independent addition to proposals for a reduced number of councillors, people of the highest professional standing to help the elected on single-member wards, which the report also council improve as quickly as possible, and intervening recommends. I believe it would be preferable to move to directlyonlyif thecouncil’selectedleadersfailtoimplement a single-member ward system at the earliest available their own improvement plan. opportunity. I am now seeking representations from the council on Investigations are currently under way into matters the report and the decisions I am proposing to take by raised in the report and I will not pre-empt them. I do, 24 May. The forthcoming elections will proceed as however,want to reiterate my party’sabsolute commitment planned, and the Liverpool City Mayor will be elected to protecting the public interest at all times and upholding on 6 May; the cabinet will then have time to provide its the highest possible standards in public life. Given the views. If I decide to intervene along the lines I have set concerns raised in this report, the general secretary of out today,I will then make the necessary statutory directions the Labour party intends to appoint a senior figure to under the 1999 Act and appoint the commissioners, and lead a review, and reassure the people of Liverpool that I will update the House on any conclusions in due course. the Labour party takes these concerns seriously and will take action against anyone in our ranks who was involved This is a rare occasion when central intervention is in wrongdoing of any kind. Our councillors in Liverpool required. In addition to the measures I propose today, have already met senior Labour councillors from other the Government will work closely with the political, the parts of the country who will support them in strengthening business and the cultural leadership of the city and with the city council’s defences against any risk of fraud. the wider region, including with Steve Rotheram, the Mayor of the Liverpool city region. We will do all we The overwhelming majority of councillors and frontline can to support the city as it recovers from the covid-19 staff will be shocked by what they read in this report. pandemic, and to give confidence to those who want to As the report and the Secretary of State have made invest in the city, to contract with the council and to do clear, the severe institutional weaknesses identified do business in Liverpool. not obscure the outstanding work they have all done As the son and grandson of Liverpudlians, I know together over many years. The Prime Minister was right Liverpool and I appreciate the sense of humour, the to praise the council’s impressive work in getting the loyalty and the warmth of its residents. I also understand city through the pandemic, and I want to add my thanks the city’s independent spirit, so I am clear that we are to everyone who continues to play a part in that. In embarking on a partnership—to mend a politics that particular, the report praises the council’s chief executive, for too long has been rooted in a pervasive and rotten Mr Tony Reeves, and I offer my support to him and to culture. the acting mayor, Councillor Wendy Simon, for the I am hopeful that this is the start of a new chapter for work they have already started to put things right. I Liverpool City Council, because in all of this it is the would also like to put on record my thanks to Mr Max residents of Liverpool who are being let down, whose Caller and his team for putting this very important report regeneration is being undermined, whose taxpayers’ together. money is being wasted and whose city is being besmirched, This is a moment for change, and I know that everyone rather than cited with municipal pride. who cares about the great city of Liverpool and its Despite the rare cases like Liverpool City Council, as wonderful people will accept this report and use it to a whole, councils in this country have a good record of strengthen the council for the future. transparency, probity, scrutiny and accountability. It is a reputation worth protecting. I will take whatever steps are necessary to uphold the good name of local government Robert Jenrick: Can I thank the hon. Gentleman for and to weed out practices that do it down. I commend the remarks he has just made and for the way in which this statement to the House. we have worked together over recent months? He has been most helpful and constructive, and I hope that can 1.57 pm continue. I thank him on behalf of the Government for Steve Reed (Croydon North) (Lab/Co-op): I am grateful the remarks he has made with respect to the Labour to the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement party and the Labour group on Liverpool City Council, and the report and, indeed, for his openness with me which are extremely welcome. The step we have taken throughout the process. today is unusual, and it is better to do it in a cross-party 941 Liverpool City Council24 MARCH 2021 Liverpool City Council 942

[Robert Jenrick] this situation. The allegations made against Liverpool City Council are of a different magnitude to the ones way. We all share the same interests, which are the that we have seen in other parts of the country, so I do delivery of public services, ensuring that the people of not want to draw direct comparisons, but there is more Liverpool get the value for money and the council that work to be done with some other local authorities as they deserve, and ensuring that the city can attract the well. inward investment, regeneration and good-quality development that it certainly needs and that we want to Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab) [V]: This see delivered as we come out of the pandemic. is clearly a very serious situation. It is obviously a very The hon. Gentleman was right—I thank him again—to major step to take powers away from elected representatives, highlight the praise for the chief executive, Tony Reeves, so I really appreciate and accept the proportionate and who has done an outstanding job. In my remarks earlier, correct response from the Secretary of State, as well as I praised his conduct and that of the other statutory from the shadow Secretary of State. I also appreciate officers at the council. The hon. Gentleman is also right the Secretary of State’s comments about the many to say that this report focuses on particular functions of hard-working staff in Liverpool, including the chief Liverpool City Council and does not comment on the executive, who bear no blame for this crisis, and his wider delivery of public services in the city by the council. comments about the generally excellent performance of There is no reason to question the delivery of adult local government as a whole. The Secretary of State has services, children’s services or other important functions set out very clearly his list of requirements from the city that people in the city rely on. He is also right to praise council and by when he expects them to be met. How the work of many people in Liverpool, including within will monitoring against these requirements be undertaken the city council, in their response to the covid-19 pandemic. and how will Parliament be updated about them? Of course it goes without saying that if there is anything I would underline my remarks once again that this is the Housing, Communities and Local Government a report about Liverpool City Council. It is not about Committee can do to assist in that process, we stand the neighbouring councils across Merseyside, and neither ready to do so. is it any reflection on the Mayor of the Liverpool city region, Steve Rotheram, to whom I extend my thanks Robert Jenrick: I am grateful to the Chair of the once again for his co-operation and support. It is right Committee. I would be happy to work with him should that we take this action, and I hope that we can continue he require any further information or wish to discuss to work together on it. None of us does this lightly. this matter further. If we go ahead with the proposal Localism is our objective, but localism does require that I have made today, then the commissioners, once local accountability, transparency and robust scrutiny, appointed, would report to me on a six-monthly basis and that I hope is what we can now achieve. and I would be happy to keep the House informed of the information they provide to me. We will ensure that Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I would just there is an improvement plan in place for the city that is like to say before I call any other Members that, although produced by the newly elected Mayor and their cabinet a number of individuals are under investigation, I and supported by Liverpool City Council, but advised understand that there have been no charges. There is and guided by the commissioners.Then it will be absolutely thereforenosubjudiceinvolved,butIwouldcautionMembers essential that that plan is delivered. It will be for all of not to compromise any of the ongoing investigations in us in this House, and particularly for those Members of anything they may or may not say. Parliament representing parts of Liverpool, to hold the council to account for the successful delivery of the Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con) [V]: I thank plan. Our objective is to restore public confidence in the Secretary of State for his statement today and the council as quickly as possible so that residents can welcome the steps he has outlined in relation to Liverpool have confidence that they have a well-functioning council City Council. I welcome the steps he is taking to preserve in all respects, and so that all the legitimate businesses, the good name of local government, too. I regularly developers and people wishing to contract with the hear from constituents with concerns about the level of council have complete confidence that Liverpool is a commercial activity that councils are now undertaking. city open for business and they can work to drive up the Does he agree with me that some of the transactions are city’s prosperity as we come out of the pandemic. incredibly complicated and well beyond what councils would have traditionally been involved in, and that Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I praise both external audit and public scrutiny need to be reviewed Max Caller, who is a superb inspector, and the Secretary and greatly improved to protect taxpayers’ interests? of State’s decision to send in commissioners. Although the problems in Liverpool City Council are far worse, in Robert Jenrick: My hon. Friend raises an important 2018 Max Caller was sent into Northamptonshire to do point. We asked a lot of local councils, and we will do a best value inspection, and subsequently the Government so once again as we come out of the pandemic. We want sent in commissioners.Since that point, under the leadership them to be regenerating town and city centres and of Commissioner Tony McArdle and the new political investing in new housing, but we want them to do so leadership of Councillor Matt Golby, the situation in carefully and not to invest in risky investments or transfer Northamptonshire County Council has been transformed toxic assets from the private sector to the public sector. and its performance has been raised beyond all expectations. Wehave taken action as a Government through reforming Is it not the case that if councillors and officers in the Public Works Loan Board. We are providing further Liverpool City Council respond positively to the challenge guidance to local councils, including through the work set to them by the Government, public services in the of the report we commissioned from Sir Tony Redmond, city can be raised once again to the standards expected to ensure that the sector improves the way it handles of them? 943 Liverpool City Council24 MARCH 2021 Liverpool City Council 944

Robert Jenrick: My hon. Friend raises a very important Robert Jenrick: All councils have a fundamental duty point. My predecessors have used their powers of to their residents to provide good value for money. At intervention very sparingly. They have done so on a the heart of our decision to intervene in Liverpool, and small number of occasions, in Doncaster, Rotherham, to commission Max Caller and his report, was persuasive Tower Hamlets, Hackney and Northamptonshire. Each evidence that it was falling below that standard, and occasion was very different, but in most of those cases that is what Max Caller has indeed concluded today. All the intervention has proved successful and has turned councils need to ensure they are providing good-quality councils around. The commissioners will behave sensitively, public services and are taking care with the money support the elected leadership of Liverpool City Council, entrusted to them. I hope we can correct the situation in and ensure that confidence is restored, public services Liverpool, which has now gone on for too long, and are delivered properly, and taxpayer money is spent that other councils across the country in different situations wisely. This now requires leadership from the politicians also take note and take particular care when spending in Liverpool—those who will be elected in the local council the public’s money. elections to come. I look forward to working with them, and if we do appoint commissioners, I expect the Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab): I also pay commissioners to work with them constructively and tribute to the incredible staff at Liverpool City Council productively at all times. at this very difficult time. I thank the Secretary of State for coming to the House today, and I hope he will agree IanByrne(Liverpool,WestDerby)(Lab):IreferMembers to meet the five Members representing Liverpool at the to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial earliest opportunity. Interests. I, for one, do not doubt the seriousness of the issues I will read the report in full today when I receive it. It that have been raised today, and I look forward to has been a great honour to work alongside many Liverpool receiving a copy of the Caller report. That public resources councillors and council staff who worked so tirelessly to have been put at risk is deeply worrying, because resources protect the people of Liverpool before and during the are needed for investment in the vital services on which pandemic and, indeed, who have been recognised for my constituents depend, even more so at a time when that work in this Chamber. Will the Secretary of State funding has been cut year on year. Will the Secretary of assure my great city and its people that this crucial State take this chance to reassure my wonderful city, work, on which so many of our constituents rely, will and anyone concerned, that commissioners will be totally continue and that these vital services will be both resourced independent and their focus will be on working in the and protected? interests of the people of Liverpool? Robert Jenrick: I certainly can. The commissioners Robert Jenrick: I thank the hon. Gentleman for those will be appointed by me and will report to me. Their remarks. I share his thanks and his praise for many of task is to support the city and its elected leadership to the staff of Liverpool City Council, and for the good ensure that a good and credible improvement plan is work over the year done by the wider health and social brought forward and implemented as quickly as possible, care sector across the region, which the Health Secretary, and that the mistakes, errors and omissions of the past the Prime Minister and I have praised on many occasions. are put right, so that confidence can be restored to the We want to ensure they continue to have resources, and city and the hon. Lady’s constituents can know and we want all of government to see this as a moment in have confidence that they have a well-functioning city which, far from stepping away, we should redouble our council and we can move forward as swiftly as possible. efforts to support the city through a potentially difficult period. I share the hon. Lady’s support for the city. It is a great city,and it deserves a good, functioning city council, I will be convening my Cabinet and ministerial colleagues which is exactly what we want to achieve. in the coming days to reiterate that message and to ask them to do even more to support Liverpool. There has John Howell (Henley) (Con) [V]: Does this sad but been good news in recent weeks, including from my right very welcome action not send a firm indication to all hon. Friend the Chancellor that Liverpool was successful councils that we will step in where irregularities over in its application for freeport status.That is just one example best value, particularly in planning, occur? Will my right of good news and investment that I hope will take the hon. Friend comment on his remarks about the need for city forward in the years to come. whole-council elections, and does that mark a change across the whole country, in trying to rid ourselves of Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): I those councils that go for elections every year? thank the Secretary of State for his statement. It is clear that too many senior people at Liverpool City Council Robert Jenrick: The report that we have laid today failed that great city during this pandemic, but it is not makes two specific recommendations with regard to just Liverpool. Nottingham City Council has given its Liverpool City Council, as I outlined earlier, first councillors a bumper pay rise, even after bankrupting recommending that we move as swiftly as possible to the council. Durham County Council, Labour run for whole-council elections, and secondly recommending 102 years, is spending £50 million-plus on a new county single-member wards. That recommendation will, subject hall on a floodplain and, at the height of the pandemic to the views of those who come forward over the coming last year, it approved a new 3,500 square feet roof weeks, be implemented, but I agree that it has wider terrace for itself. Does my right hon. Friend agree that application. A thread that we have seen in a number of that shows it is not only in Liverpool that the Labour failed councils has been a lack of scrutinyand accountability party has its priorities wrong and Labour councillors for members where they have been in multi-member are putting themselves above the people they serve? wards and where having elections time and again in 945 Liverpool City Council24 MARCH 2021 Liverpool City Council 946

[Robert Jenrick] individuals who are elected in May, and I hope that they will show the leadership that is required to turn the city thirds has led to a lack of scrutiny and a lack of focus in around. It will be a big task, but we are here to support the council. I would like to see more councils take note them. of these recommendations and implement them. Damien Moore (Southport) (Con): I thank my right Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab): I am a hon. Friend for his statement. As he knows,my constituency very proud Scouser, but listening to the Secretary of of Southport, although not in the Liverpool city area, is State read the contents of this damning report makes part of the Liverpool city region. Given our proximity, me angry, as it will the whole city when the report is this situation is causing alarm to my constituents. Will made public. But we are a resilient city, and we will fight he take further action to allay any fears that my constituents back from this. The city deserves a well-run council, have about our own local authority, and will he meet me with stronger, more transparent governance procedures, to discuss better scrutiny arrangements for local authorities that is more able to manage public finances. Important such as mine to give further reassurance to constituents? steps have been made to right the wrongs at the council by the current chief executive, Tony Reeves, and the Robert Jenrick: I would be happy to meet my hon. acting Mayor. Can the Secretary of State confirm the Friend, and I should have said in answer to the hon. timetable for the proposed intervention by commissioners? Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula Barker) that I Will that be reviewed and monitored, and reduced if would of course be happy to meet Liverpool city Members progress is made at speed? What role will the chief too. I believe that they met the Local Government executive and the elected councillors who have supported Minister earlier today, but I would be happy to have a our community so well during this crisis play in rebuilding further conversation with them. I should say again that the public’s trust? this report is specific to Liverpool City Council—it is not a comment on the neighbouring councils that make Robert Jenrick: Like her fellow Liverpool colleagues, up the Liverpool city region—but I understand that my I thank the hon. Lady for the way in which spoke. The hon. Friend may have concerns about his own council, timetable for the period ahead is that the report is now and I would be happy to discuss those. available for members of the public, colleagues in Parliament and the council to review and consider at length. The Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab) [V]: I am council has until 24 May to revert to me with comments grateful to the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary and representations. We have chosen a longer than of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon normal period, reflecting the fact that the local elections North (Steve Reed), for their statements. Weall appreciate will now take place, to give the new council and the the seriousness of the situation. Clearly, we need to see newly elected Mayor the time after the local elections real change and robust new safeguards that guarantee have concluded to meet to consider this and make those transparencyandaccountability,butthepeopleof Liverpool representations to me. Once those representations have must be part of that process. This week, I have been been made, I will consider them carefully and decide contacted by local people concerned that sending whether to proceed with the proposal that I have outlined commissioners into Liverpool amounts to a takeover by today or to change it in any way, and I will then revert Whitehall, so will the Secretary of State take this to the House with my final decision. If that is to appoint opportunity to outline to my constituents how their voice commissioners, we will set out the process and the and their democratic rights will be respected? names of the individuals I have chosen. Robert Jenrick: The elections will go ahead in May, Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con) [V]: The allegations and they will see the election of a new directly elected that my right hon. Friend describes will be familiar to Mayor. They will also see new councillors elected to the many residents of Sandwell borough. As a former local council, and the cabinet appointed by the new Mayor. councillor, I know how important it is that elected It is important, first, that those individuals make members are able to both guide and scrutinise officers. representations to me about the report and what they Does he think that Liverpool city councillors have been want to see happen. Depending on the ultimate course unable to do that in this instance due to lack of powers, of action that I take, having listened carefully to those lack of capacity or lack of capability? views, if we do choose to appoint commissioners, as I have proposed today, those commissioners will be going Robert Jenrick: I recommend that my hon. Friend to Liverpool to stand behind the elected Mayor, the reads the report by Max Caller, which sets out his cabinet and the elected members of the city council—not observations, having spent the last three months working to tell them what to do but to guide and support them. in and around the council and having dozens, if not I very much hope that the members elected by the hundreds, of conversations and interviews with councillors hon. Gentleman’s constituents will rise to the occasion and officers. He concludes that the council needs to and drive the change and reform that is needed on the raise its game substantially in respect of some officers city council, and that the commissioners will never need and also some elected members; that there needs to be to exercise their powers. We have given them the authority much greater scrutiny and accountability; that there to act should they need to, given the seriousness of some needs to be much greater care in the way that those of the allegations, but it is not our hope or expectation elected members manage public money and how they that those powers will be exercised. manage directly owned and operated companies that the council has chosen to use; and that it needs a greater Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) sense of vision for the future and a business plan for its (Lab) [V]: As the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. activities. There is a great deal of work ahead for those Friend the Member for Croydon North (Steve Reed), 947 Liverpool City Council24 MARCH 2021 Liverpool City Council 948 said, my party supports the seven Nolan principles on government that they deserve. This is not a reflection on standards in public life, be it in town halls or Whitehall, local government more generally across this country. In underpinning the councillors’ code of conduct and the fact, we are taking this action to defend the good name ministerial code. The Standards Board, which promoted of local government across the country, and I pay high ethical standards in local government and oversaw tribute to officers and councillors the length and breadth the nationally imposed code of conduct, was abandoned of England for the good work they do day in, day out. in 2012 by the Secretary of State’sGovernment. Considering today’s statement, does he think that was a mistake? Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con) [V]: I thank the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State, Robert Jenrick: A significant piece of work has been the hon. Member for Croydon North (Steve Reed), for undertaken by the Committee on Standards in Public the comments that they made in a bipartisan manner. Life with respect to the way ethics and standards are Clearly,one of the issues of concern to Liverpool residents applied in local government at all levels, from parish will be what extra costs may be borne as a result of this councils, where unfortunately we do, very rarely but on decision. Clearly, the commissioners may be in place for occasion, see issues of misconduct, bullying and harassment, some considerable period of time, so will my right hon right the way up to larger councils of the scale of Friend reassure us that Liverpool council tax payers will Liverpool City Council. I am carefully considering the not be picking up the costs of these commissioners, if committee’s views on how we should proceed, and we they are duly appointed, and that if the commissioners will respond in due course, setting out the Government’s recommend further proposals to him on expenditure, he view and the actions that we are minded to take to will consider those appropriately? ensure that there are always correct processes and always routes for redress, regardless of who is at stake. I think Robert Jenrick: The costs of the report that has been that will provide many of the answers to the right hon. undertaken by Max Caller and of the commissioners Lady’s questions. will be borne by Liverpool City Council. However, I expect that the work to come will save the taxpayers of Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con): The report Liverpool a great deal of money, because underlying outlined by my right hon. Friend mentioned a number the report by Mr Caller is the sense that many millions of very serious failings by Liverpool City Council over of pounds have been wasted as a result of mismanagement many years. Does he agree that, in addition to the steps by the city council, and I very much hope that we can being taken to improve the council’s financial position, put that right. an entirely new culture needs to be embedded at the council that puts residents and Liverpool first? Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): Newspaper headlines in this kind of situation can often Robert Jenrick: Yes, the report is clear that a major make it appear that a whole council or, indeed, a whole cultural change is required at the council. Mr Caller city is being traduced, so I welcome the Secretary of concludes that that will require radical change both by State’s recognition that there are a number of good some members and some officers, and I hope that those people in the council doing a good job. I also welcome steps will now be taken. They are absolutely essential if his emphasis on partnership moving forward because, we are going to restore confidence in the council. That as my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton is our objective. I am sure that it is the objective of most (Dan Carden) said, no one likes to feel that things are reasonable people in the city of Liverpool, and we will being done to them, and it will be much better all round be working together to achieve it. if this is done in a collegiate manner. Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab) [V]: I refer to I want to ask about transport. Many of my constituents my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. use Merseytravel facilities to get to work and visit Having served as a local councillor, I have seen the families. The Secretary of State did not expressly refer positive difference that local government can make in to that in his statement. Does he know whether that was our communities, despite tough financial circumstances. looked at as part of this investigation? I know that there will be thousands of councillors and council officers going above and beyond during the Robert Jenrick: I do not believe that was looked at as pandemic—including in Liverpool—who will be shocked part of this investigation. The highways function of and saddened by the report’s findings and today’s Liverpool City Council was investigated by Mr Caller. announcement. Would the Secretary of State agree that He has made some remarks on some of its processes today’s announcement is the exception, not the norm, and contracts that have been entered into with regard to for local government, so that we can reassure those that function, but I do not believe that he has looked at from across all our political parties who are standing the broader transport network across the Liverpool city for election in May and who want to do the right thing region or made any comment one way or another on by serving their local communities to the best of their that. abilities? Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): We now go by Robert Jenrick: The hon. Lady makes an extremely video link— important point; it is one that I made in my opening remarks. This is a rare intervention. Interventions of Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): Thank you, Mr Deputy this nature have been made on only a handful of occasions Speaker. in the last 20 years. We do so carefully and with a heavy heart, but because it is necessary to ensure that this Mr Deputy Speaker: I was not expecting that link. I was council can reform and change its ways and that we can expecting Tim Farron, but you are clearly not Tim Farron! ensure that people in Liverpool get the good-quality It has been switched again. I call Wera Hobhouse. 949 Liverpool City Council24 MARCH 2021 Liverpool City Council 950

Wera Hobhouse: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. will report to me on a six-monthly basis. We can review Not so long ago, Liverpool was the European capital of the matter on each of those occasions, and I will keep culture, under the Liberal Democrats, and it is a shame the hon. Lady and her colleagues fully informed of my to see it in its current position as a result of the failings decisions on each occasion. She is absolutely right to of Labour government. I know that my council colleagues, say that our sole interest here is the people of Liverpool, who have a lot of experience on Liverpool City Council, the taxpayers of Liverpool, and ensuring that their will do their utmost and co-operate to turn the city public services are delivered properly, their money is around. Many of the problems in Liverpool have been safeguarded and the city is one in which people feel caused by creating the post of Mayor, concentrating a complete confidence to invest, do business and work lot of power in one hand. Will the Secretary of State with the city council. I hope that, together, that is exactly make sure that the people in cities and city regions have what we can achieve. a democratic choice on whether they want to have an elected Mayor or not, and not leave the decisions to Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con): The report councils and politicians? concludes that the cycle of elections in Liverpool reduces scrutiny and inhibits long-term focus. Of course this Robert Jenrick: I hope that, given the remarks the problem is not just unique to Liverpool. For example, hon. Lady has just made, she is supporting the report Calderdale, where I was formerly a councillor, is one of that Max Caller has produced and our proposed the handful of local authorities still yet to approve a intervention, and that the Liberal Democrat group on local development plan, 10 years into the process. The Liverpool City Council will make similar comments to Labour administration there kicks the can down the those made on behalf of the Labour group on the road from year to year because it elects in thirds. To council by the hon. Member for Croydon North (Steve help avoid the issues in Liverpool being replicated elsewhere, Reed). The report concludes that the issues faced by the would the Secretary of State support a review of the current city council are much greater than one individual and electoral cycle in metropolitan borough councils? much wider than simply the role of elected Mayor, so I do not think it would be correct to say that this issue Robert Jenrick: I will give further thought to my hon. emanates from the decision to have an elected Mayor. Friend’s suggestion, but I agree that it would be better However, the hon. Lady is correct to say that that for councils to move to all-out elections, and—unless creates a degree of concentration of power, which means there are exceptional reasons to the contrary—it would that accountability and scrutiny are all the more important. be better if councillors were elected in single-member I very much hope that that will be corrected as a result wards.MaxCaller’sreportclearlymakesthatrecommendation of the work to come. for Liverpool, and he had made that recommendation in the past, having witnessed dysfunctional councils with Mr Deputy Speaker: You are keeping me on my toes, poor scrutiny and accountability in other parts of the Wera. Well done. country. It seems to be a thread running through those Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab) [V]: I councils that have got into extreme difficulties. That is am shocked by the findings that the Secretary of State something we should reflect on, and I will refer to it in has outlined to the House today and I assure him that I due course. will read the report extremely carefully once it is published. Does he agree that the priority now must be to protect Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I thank the Liverpool council tax payers’ money and the services Secretary of State for his statement and for responding the people of Liverpool rely on? Does he also agree that to 20 questions. We will now suspend the House for it is in the public interest to put in place effective three minutes for the sanitisation of the Dispatch Boxes. procedures for obtaining best value in all that the council Sitting suspended. does going forward? Given that the council is to pay the costs of the interventions, as he has set out, is there an opportunity, if swift improvement is made, for the BILL PRESENTED intervention to be shorter than the three years he has set out today? CORONAVIRUS (NO.2) BILL Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) Robert Jenrick: I am grateful, once again, for the Dawn Butler,Rebecca Long Bailey,Clive Lewis,Caroline constructive way in which the hon. Lady has approached Lucas, Bell Ribeiro-Addy, Layla Moran, Geraint Davies this issue, like her fellow Liverpool MPs today. The and Lloyd Russell-Moyle presented a Bill to make provision intervention I am proposing is for a maximum of three in connection with coronavirus; and for connected purposes. years, so she is correct to say that there is no need for the commissioners, if they are put in place, to be there for Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time that full term if progress is made faster than that. They tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 279). 951 24 MARCH 2021 952

Point of Order Gaming Hardware (Automated Purchase and Resale) 2.39 pm Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): No. 23) On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. On Monday, I received a written answer from the Minister for Health, the hon. Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar), to a 2.41 pm question about operation waiting times beyond 52 weeks. The response stated that Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP) [V]: I beg to move, “This information is not held in the format requested.” That leave be given to bring in a Bill to prohibit the automated Yesterday, however, the respected publication the Health purchase and resale of games consoles and computer components; Service Journal indicated that it had already received and for connected purposes. this information from NHS England. I have since received I am sure that in the history of this Parliament, the a copy of this from the Health Service Journal, and pressing need to address the issue of scalping through indeed, it is identical to the information I requested. I legislative proposals has not been of regular concern to believe the hon. Member for Charnwood, who I shadow, this House. However, I am here today to discuss this is a diligent and courteous Minister, but this situation very phenomenon in its most 21st-century of interpretations, does require significant explanation. I had given him and to highlight the pressing issue of unfairness to due notice today, and I had hoped he would be able to consumers at the hands of unscrupulous scalpers and give us an explanation. automated bot attacks. I should also point out that the Department has The secondary resale market—or scalping, as it is responded to me on 31 other occasions during the past commonly known—is worth billions in revenue to those year stating that it does not hold the information requested, in the automated bot industry. Scalpers manipulate and sometimes in response to questions for which I genuinely skew the supply and demand chain to create an unfair struggle to understand why it does not have that advantage in the marketplace, using bot attacks to use information, one example being how many patients up basic supplies of coveted goods, such as the next have been treated in Nightingale hospitals. Certainly, if generation of games consoles and computer components, I were in the Minister’s shoes, I would want to know the then selling them on at hugely inflated prices. Experts in answer to those questions. I am therefore seeking guidance the field of bot mitigation and cyber-threats estimate from you today, Mr Deputy Speaker, about what avenues that these kinds of organised bot groups can double their are available when I receive answers of this nature money in a matter of weeks through this practice, leaving where the Department does have, or should have, the the consumer in the position of either paying well over information requested. the manufacturer’s recommended price, or simply having to go without their desired purchase, as the bot resale Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Thank you, site has made the games console unaffordable. Mr Madders, for having given the Speaker’s Office notice of the point of order you have just made, and you have In this sense, the issue of scalping is at the heart of confirmed that you have told the Minister about it. unfairness for the consumer. It creates frustration and disappointment, delay and disempowerment, and as It is not for the Chair to comment on the accuracy or things stand, there is no recourse to the law or to completeness of ministerial answers: we all know that consumer protection. Scalping may be bad cyber-practice, that is for Ministers. However, the Government’s own and it may leave consumers short-changed, but no Ministerial Code states that legislation exists at this time to curb bot enthusiasm or “Ministers should be as open as possible with Parliament and to protect the consumer, so the problem simply grows. the public, refusing to provide information only when disclosure The covid pandemic has provided the perfect storm for would not be in the public interest”. scalpers: an increase in online shopping, combined with Therefore, if the Department does hold the information the disruption to supply chains, has allowed increasingly requested, it should provide it. I am sure that the well-organised and highly trained bot communities to make Minister concerned will review the answer and provide vast profits at the expense of the consumer. However, further information if appropriate and available. If the this issue existed long before the world was turned on its hon. Gentleman remains dissatisfied with the answer, head by the global virus. Bot groups were mobilising he might wish to raise the issue with the Procedure and professionalising at an accelerated rate. They are Committee, but I also ask the Whip on duty to ensure well funded, they are technically proficient, and they that the Minister is well informed of the response that I are emboldened by the fact that the practice of scalping have just made to this point of order. is not yet illegal. The issue first came to my attention when constituents got in touch to complain that they were having problems accessing the Sony PlayStation 5, the Xbox Series X and associated computer components in the run-up to Christmas last year. Having waited eagerly for the latest next-generation consoles to be released, they discovered that they had been scalped, with automatic bots buying up those goods in large quantities. That caused a lot of disappointment in the wider gaming community, with customers unable to purchase goods at the end of what has been a particularly hard year for everyone. 953 Gaming Hardware (Automated 24 MARCH 2021 Gaming Hardware (Automated 954 Purchase and Resale) Purchase and Resale) [Douglas Chapman] protection. This is not a scenario that can be left to the market to regulate.Nor can it be left as the sole responsibility Those consoles and computer components then of individual companies to monitor and take action to reappeared on other websites and shopping portals, mitigate the power of the bots. The consumer must be some with eye-watering mark-ups of as much as 170% on at the heart of our actions to improve the experience, the original price. This is not a new phenomenon. One cost and availability for customers. Just as scalping look at the gamers websites and magazines reveals that creates an unlevel playing field in terms of purchase scalping has been a problem for quite some time. It power for the consumer, so it also creates issues for creates a vicious cycle where gamers, desperate for their retailers and companies that sell and make these consoles consul or game card, are willing to pay over the odds to and computer parts. Even the large corporations are combat the pre-arranged shortage in the market, which beginning to take notice that a knock-on effect is that has been unfairly skewed. That serves only to disadvantage fewer next-generation consoles are now being sold and the consumer further and bolster the unscrupulous that affects the new games coming on to the market, activities of scalpers—and so it continues. especially games that are specifically launched to coincide Experts on bot mitigation, such as Netacea, predict with these next-generation machines. that the situation will only worsen in 2021, not just for For consumers, there are additional issues around the games industry but widening out across goods as guarantees and return of faulty goods. Then there is the diverse as gym equipment, hot tubs and important question of possible criminality. This is an international services such as supermarket delivery slots even. Experts issue; scalpers work across borders. Questions must be envisage both a major consumer backlash and a surge asked about how they generate funds to make these in brands stepping in to tackle the problem head on, but large-scale purchases online. What are the profits that surely it would be better just to legislate to mitigate the are generated from this? What are they used for? It worst impact of bot buying. could be that we are moving into the area of potential money laundering, organised crime, tax evasion and The issue is especially concerning given the nature of fraud. the economy at the time—depressed due to the pandemic, with job losses and precarious financial situations for As the House can see, this is a situation that has both consumers and retailers. For smaller retailers, it is grown arms and legs. It is out of control and it is only a double whammy, as they do not have the same means going to get worse. This is not some niche issue, or even as larger companies to protect themselves against this a mere annoying inconvenience. My office has been terrible bot behaviour, but have to deal with the loss of fielding inquiries and this Bill has had wide media revenue from games that are available, at a price, on the coverage in the specialist gaming and tech publications, bots’ websites. This is turning into an online wild west, but also mainstream media coverage in France, Spain, where bots and skilled cyber-villains have the upper the USA, Japan and, yesterday, Bangkok. hand. What hope is there for the consumer, the retailer This is an opportunity for this Parliament to lead the and the games industry? It is here that we must look to way globally and introduce legislation that is about the law to redress the imbalance in power and injustice. consumer rights, consumer protection and fairness in Interestingly, there are parallels to be drawn between the marketplace. Scalpers have all the advantages. They scalping and ticket touting. Legislation on the secondary hold all the cards and they can currently act with selling of tickets, which came into law in 2018, can be impunity, making huge profits in the process. Now is used as a guide to tackle scalping. That legislation was the time for the UK Government to take a firm stance brought in to prohibit the resale of tickets for amounts on this cyber malpractice, to step up and act on behalf far in excess of the original price. It helped to crack of the consumer, to draw a clear line and put in place down on the enormous profits being made at the expense the necessary legislation. Let us put a stop to these of people looking to attend their favourite sporting, automated bots bulk-buying these consoles for resale. theatre or music event, and gained huge support from Let us act to stop the wilful scalping of virtual shoppers across the music industry, from such artists as Ed Sheeran and end the bot monopoly. In conclusion, I say to the and the Arctic Monkeys. Today, I am proposing that Government: let us put the consumer back in control. similar legislation be brought in to ensure that consumers Question put and agreed to. can purchase gaming consoles, games and related goods Ordered, at no more than the manufacturer’s recommended price, ThatDouglasChapman,RonnieCowan,CarolMonaghan, and that the resale of goods purchased by automated Margaret Ferrier, Martyn Day, Drew Hendry, John Mc bots be made illegal. Nally,Steven Bonnar,Alison Thewliss and Joanna Cherry I have already written to the Department for Digital, present the Bill. Culture, Media and Sport to highlight the issue and Douglas Chapman accordingly presented the Bill. examine the legislative options to ban the bot, or at Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time least make some significant progress on consumer tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 280). 955 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 956 Anonymous Abuse end online anonymity. No one has a right to a cloak to Backbench Business conceal their actions of harm. Both Katie’s petition and my hon. Friend’s own great work in this area deserve Online Anonymity and Anonymous Abuse the support of the whole House. [Relevant Documents: e-petition 575833, Make verified Siobhan Baillie: I thank my hon. Friend; it was very kind ID a requirement for opening a social media account, and of him to set up a meeting between me, Katie and her e-petition 332315, Ban anonymous accounts on social mum Amy. We talked about her experiences of the trolls. media; oral evidence taken before the Petitions Committee What they have been through is absolutely heartbreaking. on 21 May and 2 July 2020, on Tackling Online Abuse, Harvey has been subject to the most vile abuse, which I HC 364.] actually cannot bring myself to say. This has gone on his whole life. The strength with which he and his family Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Before I call have endured these issues is remarkable. Any mother Siobhan Baillie to speak for about 10 minutes, may I would want to protect her children and we must arm inform everybody that, from then on in, we are on a parents with the tools to do just that. three-minute limit? For those who can participate for In Stroud, a robust military veteran has had years of less than three minutes, you will be doing a favour to deliberate online attempts to ruin his business and colleagues who are lower down on the call list. reputation. It has nearly broken him mentally at times. The Facebook page that attacks him has a spare one in 2.53 pm case the first gets taken down. Another constituent has Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con): I beg to move, endured years of stalking and harassment. She is a retired social worker. She has found the police ill equipped That this House has considered online anonymity and anonymous abuse. to deal with such fast-moving tech, and even when the perpetrators put a picture of her garage door up online— In recent weeks, we have been rightly concerned about indicating they knew where she lived—she still felt safety in our towns and cities, yet people face danger unprotected. A Gloucestershire journalist was recently and harassment not just in the physical world, but on told by an anonymous loon that she is single because she the dark cyber streets and alleyways of the internet. Cowardly keyboard warriors stalk these streets and lurk “is self absorbed and looks like a slut”. in our phones. They bully with abandon, they spread I have done enough domestic violence work as a lawyer racist and misogynistic abuse, they attack looks, weight, to know that such attitudes and language are a short age, race, gender, disability, success as well as failure and hop, skip and jump to violence. the young and old alike. No one is safe from their violent Of course, not all online nastiness is anonymous. One hate. Anonymity provides the shadows where these people named man said of me on Facebook last week: can hide. It facilitates and encourages online abuse. “She should be banished from our lovely Stroud…years ago My own experience of hate came after the birth of she’dhave been shot on the spot for her arrogance and hypocrisy…yet my daughter last year. The outpouring of venom because people voted for the ass licking vile piece of slime.” I took four weeks’ maternity leave was a shock. Attacking Lovely—and I could go on and on. I do not have somebody for being a mum or suggesting that a mum enough time to properly address other reports of dangerous cannot do the job of an MP is misogynistic and, quite antisemitism, fake news, vaccine misinformation, deliberate frankly, ridiculous. But I would be lying if I said that I reputation ruining and online fraud. That is on top of did not find it very upsetting, especially at a time when the daily legal but harmful harassing-type behaviour, I could barely move and needed to work out how to plus posts that have the veneer of a justified challenge feed my new baby.Other people have suffered more—from but are really just deliberately spiking pile-ons and hate. death and rape threats to all forms of intimidation and Constituents I have spoken to are clear that the harassment in between. Nobody should have to put up reporting does not work, the cost of legal remedies are with that. Seeing the bravery with which others have out of the reach of normal people and the law needs confronted this menace has prompted me to campaign updating. We need to make social media known more for change, and I am not alone. for the good in our society, rather than as a toxic, unsafe The racism and abuse levelled at footballers is no longer hellhole. The Government’s online harms work, though from the terraces. Many England players who will run overdue, is to be commended as a huge step in the right out for us tomorrow night have suffered unspeakable direction. That legislation will require media platforms racist abuse. I fully support Harry Maguire’s calls for to take more effective actions against abuse, whether it verified identification. I have spoken to the FA’s excellent is anonymous or not. Its aims of protecting children Kick It Out, which has superb goals for social media and empowering adults to stay safe online are noble, yet companies to create robust and swift measures to take the White Paper barely addresses the issue of anonymity. down abusive material, and for investigating authorities There were no specific consultation questions about the swiftly to identify the originators. issue. That should be rectified without delay. Katie Price launched a petition only a few weeks ago As it stands, tech companies do not know who millions that already has over 160,000 signatures. of their users are. No matter how good their intentions, the lack of basic information means that any attempt to Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): I police platforms and bring offenders to justice is a congratulate my hon. Friend on securing today’s debate painful process, if it happens at all. Ofcom’s hands will on this incredibly important issue. Will she join me in be tied behind its back before it even starts. paying tribute to Katie, who is my constituent? She is a I do not propose the banning of anonymous accounts. mum battling for her disabled son who is often abused There are great benefits in anonymity that I know other online. Her petition makes the very sensible proposal to Members will speak passionately about today. I would 957 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 958 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [Siobhan Baillie] 3.3 pm DameMargaretHodge(Barking)(Lab)[V]:Icongratulate like to see tech companies move on this issue, as we should the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on securing not always need the Government to intervene, although this debate. sadly it currently looks like they will have to. Legislating on online harms gives us a vital opportunity Three simple steps would go a long way to prevent, to call a halt to the extremism, misinformation and deter and reduce online abuse. First, we should give avalanche of harmful abuse that has become commonplace social media users the option to verify their identity. on social media. Whether on big platforms such as Secondly, we should make it easy for everybody to see Twitter or fringe platforms such as Telegram, harmful whether or not a user has chosen to verify their identity. content is now all-pervasive. Recently, another tsunami Members of this House already use that function—my of racist abuse was directed at the footballers Marcus Twitter account has a prominent blue tick next to it, Rashford, Lauren James and Anthony Martial. Sometimes, thereby providing confidence that the account is genuine the perpetrators can be identified, but too often those and my details have been checked. Verification works: responsible do not reveal who they are. In the past, we we should make it available to all. Finally, we should argued that online anonymity supported open democratic give users the option to block communication, comments debate; I am now convinced that anonymity encourages and other interaction from unverified users as a category, online harm that is not just hateful in itself but is used if they wish. to spread lies about individuals and aims to undermine Some people argue that such moves would undermine their credibility and so shut down their voices. Far from freedom of speech, but I disagree. No one would be nurturing democratic debate, anonymity undermines prevented from using another name or being “Princess democracy. What’s-her-chops”, but it would make it harder for online My work challenging Jew-hate reached a climax last abusers to hide in the shadows if they cause mayhem. autumn, with the publication of the Equality and Human Importantly, it would make abusers easier to catch and Rights Commission report into antisemitism in the give social media users the power of choice. Some will Labour party. Community Security Trust found that my be happy to interact with unverified users; others will not. public comments at that time led to 90,000 mentions on But there must be a choice. social media. The vast majority were abusive, racist and In any event, what greater impediment to freedom of misogynistic. speech is there than people worrying that what they say Let me share just a few; some are very offensive. online will end up in a death threat or a rape threat? “I hope she dies soon. Dumb bitch”; What personal freedoms have been lost through the “nothing but a couple of shit-stirring…cum buckets, bought and damage done to mental health by online bullying? How paid for by Israel.” many people have already looked at online abuse and I was told I was a “Mossad agent”, a “Zionist stooge”, hesitated before applying for public-facing jobs, or not a wrinkly “pedo-lover”. “Traitor.”“Snake.”“Rat.”“Shill.” applied at all? My proposals would protect freedom of “Nazi”. This abuse is aggressive, harmful, yet sometimes expression and respect the choice of anonymity, but I have no idea who said it. make it harder for abusers to hide in darkness and give individuals new powers to control how they interact Ending anonymity for those who promulgate hate or with others. I urge everybody to look up the organisation harm is key to effectively combating it. We must compel Clean up the Internet, which was co-founded by one of social media companies to be able to identify all users. my constituents, to see the proposals in more detail. We know that is easily done. Take the online payment company PayPal. Everyone using PayPal must provide Mr Deputy Speaker, no one should face the abuse their identity when setting up an account. Users’ identity and horror that you will hear about today. For the is not public, but it can be traced if required. If social victims of online harm, the abuse is not virtual. It does media companies acted similarly, those who use online not stay in cyber-space. It impacts the real lives of real anonymity for good, such as whistleblowers, or victims people in the real world. If we fail properly to investigate of child abuse or domestic abuse, could continue to do the impact and options surrounding anonymity, I fear so, but those who use anonymity to spread harmful we will render any forthcoming legislation and change—no content would be identifiable, and could be dealt with matter how good it is—out of touch and out of date by the appropriate authorities. Knowing that would, at before the ink is dry. We have the expertise, support and a stroke— drive to tackle online harms; let us be a beacon of light and illuminate the dark streets of social media. Let us Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I am sorry; we really lead the world on tackling anonymous abuse. will have to leave it there. Time is up.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): It may be of 3.6 pm use if I go through some of the timings for the rest of Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): How deeply the debate and the afternoon. The wind-ups will start at upsetting for everybody to hear that very powerful 4.21, with six minutes for John Nicolson. We will then speech by the right hon. Member for Barking (Dame have Jo Stevens at 4.27 and the Minister, Matt Warman, Margaret Hodge). It is humbling to follow it. I congratulate at 4.35. At 4.43, Siobhan Baillie will have a couple of her on what she said and the bravery she has shown. I minutes to wind up the debate. congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud The time limit is three minutes and I must ask hon. (Siobhan Baillie) on securing this debate and thank the Members to observe it very strictly, because otherwise Committee for granting it. colleagues will simply not be able to get into the debate. Of course plenty of people are anonymous without Theywillbedoingcolleaguesafavourif theycanevenmanage ever being abusive and, God knows, plenty of abuse to deliver their speeches in less than three minutes. comes from people who are perfectly open about who 959 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 960 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse they are, but there is something of a media hierarchy in me with my Twitter name DrLisaCameronMP. It was human nature. I think we all recognise that there are not a parody account, which we can all relate to, but many people who would say things to someone on the one which I believe to have been made in malice to phone that they would not say in person, who would impersonate an MP.We all know how many constituents put things in email that they would not say on the phone, contact us initially through social media with crucial private would put things on Twitter that they would not write issues who would have been affected by this individual in an email, and yes, will post anonymously something acting with impunity. they would never want to see their name written next to. When we reported it, we were originally told that there I do not want to ban anonymity, any more than my was nothing that breached standards. However, this is a hon. Friend the Member for Stroud would. People have serious matter not just for public figures but for those long sought its sense of freedom, its disinhibiting effect, who come in confidence to seek our help. My situation its privacy and occasionally its hilarity and enjoyment, could not be rectified until I contacted the CEO of and there is nothing wrong with any of that. As long as Twitter. Following the election, I even had difficulty there is no harm to anybody else, it is no business of the getting my own handle back, as I was initially advised state. It is also important, of course, for activists in that it belonged to someone else. No one was held oppressive regimes, or for people seeking advice on responsible and it would have taken a police investigation sensitive issues, to discover a community out there, to to find out. It should simply never be allowed to happen. know that they are not alone. But while in one context Where it does, there should be some means of recourse anonymity can give voice to the voiceless and empower due to the adverse impact on our most vulnerable the oppressed, in another it can coarsen public discourse constituents. and facilitate abuse. Surely it is possible for us to have The second issue relates to my role as vice-chair of the one without having to have the other. In this debate the all-party group against antisemitism. Sadly, and as we will hear, indeed have already heard, about some we might expect, antisemitism and extremism are a key really nasty abuses—in many cases, criminal abuses, concern in relation to online anonymity. Disguising where the issue with anonymity is really one about one’sidentity is not new for extremists, as the Antisemitism registration; it is about the impediments to enforcement Policy Trust pointed out in its briefing on online anonymity. action. Many of those cases will be about people in the The Ku Klux Klan and others have long sought to public eye. cover their faces in order to carry out extreme acts. The I am also concerned about lower-level effects—the internet now offers anonymous abusers and spreaders impact on the general tone of public discourse, and the of radical and violent ideologies a degree of protection consequences for our social cohesion and mutual by allowing them to hide their identities. Looking at the understanding. I am concerned not only, or even mainly, Community Security Trust’s incident statistics for October about public figures, but also about everybody else—about 2020, nearly 40% of reported antisemitic abuse online moderate, normal people of all views who fear to put during that month came from fully anonymous and their head above the parapet, and those deterred from partially anonymous users. That is an extremely worrying entering public life in future for fear of what their children trend. might see written about them on Twitter. Placing sensible checks on anonymity and incentivising Free speech is at the heart of our traditions, but we against harm from anonymous accounts can help victims have another long tradition that pamphlets declare who regain a sense of control and confidence, and would they are from—the imprint. Writers might write under surely disrupt what are presently significant levels of abuse. pseudonyms, but someone—the publisher—is ultimately I urge that restrictions be applied to online abusive accountable.Social media platforms denythat responsibility, actions, much more so than they currently are. Existing so anonymity could also make it easier for those foreign legislation urgently needs to be updated through the powers and others who want deliberately to confuse proposed online safety Bill. and divide us. It can be hard to know whether you are interacting with a person, a machine or something in 3.12 pm between. Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con) [V]: There are many possible permutations; there are also We should not have to tolerate online abuse targeting many pitfalls, and this warrants proper debate and individuals with dehumanising language and threats of deliberation. My proposal, like that of my hon. Friend, injury. Anonymity on social media has provided some is a pretty mild one, and a safe one—that if you are on people with a platform to abuse others in this way. general-usage, mass-market social media using your There are clearly two parties at fault: the person who real identity, you should have the right, if you choose, to creates the hateful content, and the platform that both hear only from other people using their real identity. lets them do it and allows what they have posted to remain visible. Making people reveal their true identity 3.9 pm to a tech company when creating a social media account Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and would, I believe, make it more likely that they will treat Lesmahagow) (SNP) [V]: I congratulate the hon. Member other users with respect. These tech platforms also need for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on securing today’s debate. to co-operate more effectively and transparently with There are two issues that I want to touch on briefly in investigations into the behaviour of their users. relation to anonymity regarding online accounts. Social media companies too often mistake harmful The first issue is impersonation online, which I hate speech for legitimate freedom of expression. A experienced in 2019 just prior to the general election as recent report by The Guardian revealed internal moderator I gave up my Twitter MP handle. Within an hour, guidelines at Facebook, reportedly leaked to the newspaper, someone had stolen it and followed a number of my that say that public figures are considered to be permissible colleagues, and began to tweet out as though they were targets for certain types of abuse, including calls for 961 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 962 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [Damian Collins] especially at risk of being abused online. Some 82% of women politicians from around the world report their death. More needs to be done not just to take down experiencing psychological violence, and half of them harmful content, but to ensure that social media companies have had rape or death threats. In the 2017 election, do not amplify it in their systems. No one has a freedom MPs who were women of colour were particularly of expression right to be promoted on TikTok’s “For targeted, receiving 35% more abuse than their white You”page or the Facebook news feed. An internal company colleagues, with my right hon. Friend the Member for report in 2016 told Facebook that 64% of people who Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) joined groups sharing extremist content did so at the receiving half of all the abuse online during that election. prompting of Facebook’srecommendation tools. Another It is little wonder that by 2019, many colleagues from report from August last year noted that 70% of the top across the House cited the abuse that they had faced as 100 most active civic groups in the USA are considered the reason they were standing down. non-recommendable for issues such as hate,misinformation, This is not just about people in the public domain. It bullying and harassment. is also about the experience of women and people of The business model of social media companies is colour across our country, and we know that that has based around engagement, meaning that people who got worse during the pandemic, with a 50% increase in engage in and with abusive behaviour will see more of the abuse, according to Glitch!, which has been monitoring it, because that is what the platform thinks they are this. It is not just the words; it is the sheer volume of interested in. When we talk about regulating harmful abuse we get. And it is not just online any more; it is content online, we are mainly talking about that model leaching into our offline world, and it is increasingly not and the money these companies make from all user- anonymous, with people feeling emboldened to use generated content as long as it keeps people on their abuse as it becomes commonplace. Every year that we site. Content that uses dehumanising language to attack delay enacting this legislation is another year when we others is not only hurtful to the victim but more likely see voices being removed from our public domain, so let to encourage others to do the same. us kill the idea that this is about free speech. It is not When Parliament debates the online harms Bill later free speech when 50% of the conversation is living in this year, we will have to remind ourselves what the fear of what someone might do, or of being found or real-world consequences are of abuse on social media. being terrorised, and it is not free speech when we are In Washington DC on 6 January, we saw an attempted not hearing those voices—that diversity of voices that insurrection in the US Capitol, fuelled by postings on improves our debates and discussions. Facebook, that caused the deaths of five people. In the I started off using kittens to try to take the heat out UK, we have seen significant increases in recorded hate of conversations; now I have moved on to capybaras, crimes over the past 10 years, suicide rates are at a but the problem in the last eight years has got worse. It 20-year high, and over the past six years the number of has been state-sponsored, it is organised and it requires hospital admissions because of self-injury in pre-teens us to come together and hold the media companies has doubled. Arrests for racist and indecent chanting at accountable, just as we would hold a pub landlord football grounds more than doubled between 2019 and accountable if we were being abused in a pub while just 2020, even though hundreds of matches were cancelled going about our business. The online harms Bill must or played behind closed doors. These issues are too recognise the intersectional nature of the issues we face. serious to be left to the chief execs of the big tech It must listen to organisations such as Glitch!, Hope not companies alone. Those people need to recognise the Hate and the Jo Cox Foundation—for goodness’ sake, it harm that their systems can create in the hands of must listen to that—when they argue that we must recognise people and organisations intent on spreading hate and who is being targeted. In a free and fair democracy, we abuse. We need to establish the standards that we expect must fight to reclaim not just our streets but our social them to meet, and empower the regulatory institutions media too. we will need to ensure that they are doing so. 3.18 pm 3.15 pm Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con) [V]: Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: I I want to begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the congratulate the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie), not just on securing Baillie) on securing this important debate. Like the hon. this debate but on what she said. In this debate there is Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), I one central question, which is how we are to keep online had one of those difficult conversations this week, anonymity available for those who need and deserve it which I am sure many Members across the House have and yet ensure that it cannot be used as a shield by those had, when I saw reports that the Facebook moderators who do not. Of course, some will argue that anonymity had said that death threats towards members of the online is part of freedom of speech, and that the public who are in the public realm were acceptable. It is freedom to hold opinions without interference, which is never easy, getting a death threat or a rape threat. I first included in article 19 of the universal declaration on started getting them in 2013, when I helped the campaigner, human rights, implies a right to anonymity, but I do not Caroline Criado Perez, to campaign to put Jane Austen think it is that simple. on banknotes, and in the past eight years the situation Human rights are often about a balance of rights. has gone from bad to worse. Back then, it felt shocking. The right to anonymity in what someone says has to be It was unusual. It was definitely a matter for the police. balanced against the right of the people they abuse Now it is all too commonplace. to speak freely themselves and the need to hold them to One of the things we have to recognise is that this it is account for making their speech less free. These are of not an equal experience. Women, particularly women of course difficult balances to strike, but if we care about colour, and people from non-binary backgrounds are everyone’s freedom of speech, we cannot avoid them. 963 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 964 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse Freedom of speech is not unrestricted in other arenas, that the links to a political party that enjoys significant and it should not be unrestricted on social media either. electoralsupportbeingbehindthiscampaignof intimidation That restriction often comes via the criminal law,including are strong. We need the social media companies to online, but there is much we should not tolerate that recognise this bot intimidation, and we need the police falls short of criminal behaviour, damaging individuals to be empowered to stop it. and damaging us all. I agree with my hon. Friend the In conclusion, we can continue to talk about these Member for Stroud and my right hon. Friend the Member issues, but what we want to see is a legislative basis for for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) that in addressing enforcing measures for social media firms to require ID anonymous abuse of an individual, we perhaps should to verify accounts and for a swifter response and better start, counter-intuitively, by looking not at the merits of co-operation with the police in tackling this online anonymity,but at the merits of verifiable identity.Whether pandemic of hate. If that does not happen, we will have it is in online banking, shopping or combating deep failed every victim, whether a teenager, TV presenter or fakes, it will increasingly help to be able to demonstrate international footballer, and allowed the continuation of who we are, and if we can establish reliable ways of hurt and harm against them. It is time for this Government proving identity, we should be able to choose to interact to act. online only with others whose identity can be verified or who are willing to reveal it. However, anonymous content 3.24 pm that damages us all, from disinformation to extremism, is a different problem. Here I think we should consider Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con) [V]: I thank the disclosure of identity only with judicial sanction, in my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) the same way as other intrusions into privacy such as for securing this important debate. Over the past year, search warrants or phone tapping, which require the we have all spent more time online, for good and for ill. authority of a judge. The pressure of the pandemic has shown us some of Of course, all of this needs much more thought and the very best parts of our society and some of the very debate, and the forthcoming online safety Bill should be worst. Online abuse, made much easier through anonymity, an opportunity for both. Determining what the duty of has consistently been one of the very worst elements. care at the heart of the Bill requires online platforms to Let me be clear: I am not attacking anonymity online do, both for those who need the protection of anonymity itself. It is not always harmful; in fact, it can often be a and for those who need protection from anonymity, is a force for good. However, it is currently being abused by real challenge, but I think it is now one that we must grasp trolls and bullies and used to spread misinformation. and do so in the course of this Bill, not put off again. That harms other users and undermines democratic debate. From the stories we have heard today to the ones I hear in the Tea Room on a daily basis and tragic 3.21 pm cases such as that of Caroline Flack, this abuse is real. Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) [V]: I thank the It has a real impact and lasting, sometimes lethal, hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) for securing consequences. this debate. The word “pandemic” is now very much part When social media users are anonymous, they feel of our lexicon, and forever will be because of covid-19, much more able to behave poorly and bully and abuse yet there is another pandemic infecting this world and other users. It is not just me saying that; repeated studies that is online abuse. show that anonymity makes user behaviour increasingly Since I entered politics, I myself have been the victim aggressive and violent. Anonymity also makes it much of a consistent and vicious campaign of abuse. It is harder to enforce rules against such behaviour. If a troll largely based on my appearance. When I post the video is eventually banned, they simply create a new anonymous of this speech online, invariably someone will post a gif account under a new name and their behaviour continues or a comment designed to hurt me. Sometimes this is unabated. Online anonymity is a key factor in the spread done through anonymous accounts and sometimes through of disinformation, conspiracy theories and extremism. real profiles. We live in a world where online platforms Organised disinformation networks exploit the ability embolden people to be nasty,vindictive, spiteful and cruel, to create fake accounts and false identities at scale, using and very few public figures escape it. these networks to create false and misleading content Only last week, following a match with Slavia Prague, and to spread and amplify it. the Glasgow Rangers footballers, Glen Kamara and Tackling this effectively will take a really fine balance. Kemar Roofe, were subjected to a torrent of some of I have absolutely no appetite to see free speech curtailed, the vilest racist abuse I have ever witnessed on Facebook, but if we hope to challenge disinformation and extreme Instagram and Twitter.While this was on an unprecedented content, we need to address this issue head-on. If we look scale, the club tells me that every single black player at at platforms such as BitChute and some of the people Rangers football club has been racially abused online at who use them, they have weaponised free speech and some point this season, yet when confronted, the social are acting as if there are no boundaries at all. People media companies wash their hands of responsibility use these platforms to propagate images and text that and continue to facilitate this hate on their platforms. directly undermine the rights of other people and minority Rather than joining the rest of society in tackling racial communities with hateful content. We need to have a inequality and prejudice, they are actually enabling it. It proper discussion and understanding of this. Anonymity is time they were called out and held accountable. wrapped in the flag of free speech is being used right I also want to raise a very sinister and very concerning now to justify the sharing of extremely hateful content trend seen in Northern Ireland. It involves threats of and to directly assault our democratic values. social media campaigns being waged against politicians How do we tackle this? I do not believe that we and against journalists in a bid to destroy them personally should just ban anonymity, but my hon. Friend the and silence them publicly. What is most concerning is Member for Stroud makes exactly the right points on 965 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 966 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [Simon Fell] 3.30 pm Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con): Imagine that we lived this issue. We should mandate that social media platforms in a society where people walked around wearing a face give people the option to verify their identity. Users mask to hide their identity with the sole intention of bullying should have the option to block interaction with others people and causing upset without any consequences. who choose not to verify themselves, and it should be That would be unacceptable—in fact, nearly impossible, clear to everyone who is verified. Doing that would put as the police could be called and the culprits dealt with. the power back into the hands of users who want to Yet we have an online society that allows that to happen. enjoy the amazing benefits of social media but not see hate speech or fake news. Frankly, if someone is not I only ever use Facebook, which is a great way to prepared to stand up and put their name to their words, communicate with people, and most people on there use why should anyone listen to them? it sensibly and safely, but we all know that hiding behind a keyboard can bring out the worst in people. Lots of us have been guilty of reacting too quickly to a comment, 3.28 pm saying the wrong thing or reading it in the wrong way, Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) but that happens in real life anyway. Maybe some of us (Lab) [V]: I congratulate the hon. Member for Stroud should actually be breathalysed before logging on to (Siobhan Baillie) not only on securing the debate but on Facebook, as I am sure alcohol can sometimes play a the dignity and determination she has brought to this part. Hiding behind a screen sometimes means that people issue. I am speaking primarily in my capacity as co-chair act differently from the way they act in person. It can of the all-party parliamentary group for compassionate bring out a nasty side. If people want to be nasty, it is politics. their right to be nasty, but they should stand up and be The last year has shown the capacity of social media counted and identified in doing so. and digital platforms to benefit society. We have all seen As MPs we get our fair share of abuse online. The sad how they can be misused. Online abuse and even online thing is that I have sort of accepted that, as I am an MP, hate, including racism, antisemitism and misogyny, is it is an occupational hazard. When I say abuse, I mean prolific, with horrific impacts on individuals’ mental personal threats—threatening messages about me, my health. We have even seen cases that have been associated wife, my family, my children and my friends. Sadly, it is with suicide. In addition to harming individuals, even worse for female MPs and MPs of colour. It is propaganda, misinformation and fake news are threatening unacceptable. I know that MPs are not the nation’s the health of populations and the security of democracies favourite people, but does that justify the level of abuse across the world. that they get? I do not think it does. Anonymous social media accounts are used by many Some people wish to remain anonymous when reaching abusers to hide and get away with their abuse. Research out for support or whistleblowing, and that is acceptable. by Clean up the Internet has shown that the majority of This could be a person wishing to reach out to warn abuse and misinformation spread online comes from somebody about a new partner in their life who has these anonymous accounts. We should be in no doubt: been abusive or a criminal in the past. We need to find a anonymous accounts embolden bullies and facilitate place online for these people to go to make sure that abusers. This is ruining lives. they are listened to without being ridiculed or laughed It is not only the personal damage caused by anonymous at, and feel safe. Maybe we could look at creating an accounts: they are polluting public space, entrenching online safe place. divisions and trashing our democracy. Research by the Lockdown has meant that many of us have spent thinktank Compassion in Politics found that nearly one more and more time online, and sadly, for many of us, in three people are put off posting on social media sites that has meant more abuse, more threats and the like. In for fear of abuse. Voices are being shut out from online my constituency, I have a little girl called Jossie who has debates because, for many, the space in which those Down’s syndrome. Jossie is a beautiful, bright and debates are taking place is becoming increasingly toxic. loving little five-year-old girl. Her mother campaigns Damaging lies are spun without any recourse. online to raise awareness of Down’s syndrome, and The Centre for Research and Evidence on Security proudly displays Jossie’s pictures online. Trolls in my Threats has concluded that the use of fake social media area thought it was a good idea to lift Jossie’s picture off accounts to influence the outcome of UK elections is the internet and put a noose over her head, and make “systemic” and that the level of influence of those fun about it to Jossie’s sister. This would not happen in accounts is “considerably more extensive” than is widely the outside world without immediate, swift consequences, understood. Of course, this follows on from the work and the online world should be no different. I stand by the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee with Jossie. and the US Senate committees. 3.33 pm We have arrived at this critical juncture largely because of the legal framework in which social media companies Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab) [V]: I congratulate have been allowed to grow and prosper. A hands-off the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on securing approach gave fledgling social media companies the this debate and on all the work that she is doing to raise room they needed to experiment with algorithms, turn this issue. Yet again, it is a pleasure to take part in a profits from advertising revenue, and engage a larger debate where Members across the House are working user base with little social responsibility. The experience together to find solutions. over the last decade or so shows that things cannot There may be genuine and valid reasons why some continue as they are. We need a new legal framework. I people need to protect their identity online—those at hope the online safety Bill will take the bold step of risk of being traced by former partners in an abusive making sure that anonymity is sorted. situation, professionals such as teachers, or those whose 967 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 968 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse views may put them in serious danger of harm or Although I welcome the online harms work that we torture from their own Government regime. Those who are doing and the work of the Law Commission to do not need protection, however, are the individuals improve the duty of care and to look at how we can who choose to use online platforms to bully, intimidate, boost our offences regime for online communications, I troll and abuse others. Of course, many people online refer Members to the Law Commission’s language about behave like that without feeling the need to hide behind the practical barriers to enforcement. It talks about the fake profiles. sheer scale of abusive and offensive online communications. Social media gives a great platform to public figures That means that we must seek to prevent some of these such as MPs, but the downside to having a blue tick on communications; we cannot just use an offence regime Twitter, especially for women, is that we experience a to police them. disproportionate amount of online abuse almost daily. I want to touch briefly on free speech. We know that My right hon. Friends the Members for Hackney North women are more abused online, we know that that and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) and for Barking inhibits them from expressing their views, and we know (Dame Margaret Hodge), my hon. Friend the Member that that puts them off standing for office. I just wonder for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) and the hon. whether we are ensuring that we look at whose free speech Member for Bishop Auckland (Dehenna Davison) spring we are protecting. to mind when I think of online abuse—and indeed, as We also know that online anonymity can be very the hon. Member for Stroud mentioned, she herself was beneficial to people, whether they are whistleblowers, trolled for daring to be pregnant. domestic abuse victims or people who just enjoy the I cannot speak in a debate such as this without raising uninhibited conversations that they can find online, but the huge problem of racism on online platforms. We we know that, as more and more people go online, we have all seen it in all its disgusting forms all over social will have more and more of these cross-jurisdiction media, from trolling, vile language to the use of insulting problems. From 2 billion in 2015, we expect 7 billion stereotypes and images. Sadly, though, some forms of people to be online in 2030. Wecannot just act unilaterally racism have been overlooked and even deemed acceptable on this issue; we need to look at what we can do to work by many. Racism is not only about the colour of our with our partners across the world, because more and skin; Islamophobia and antisemitism have shamed political more of these trolls may not be based in the UK. parties in recent years, and the Labour party has been in From stalking to harassment, grooming, scamming, the spotlight over the recent findings of the Equality extremism, fake news and political interference, we and Human Rights Commission. That is, of course, know that the anonymity of online interaction is doing deeply shameful, as is the treatment of the former MPs harm, and there is therefore much merit in the proposals who felt that they had no choice but to leave this party. put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud. While I welcome the measures put in place by the We should be considering those and all other policies leader of my party and the general secretary and his that we can to try to inhibit some of the anonymous team, many of us have been reporting online abuse by abuse that we have seen. members of our party for several years—personal abuse, 3.39 pm sometimes by those with blue ticks themselves, and Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) abuse by party members using anonymous, fake accounts. (LD): Well done the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan I know who they are, and it takes only a few seconds to Baillie) for securing this debate. I stand here today as a find the posts that they write and share which blatantly Liberal and I am a great supporter of free speech, but I clash with the values of this political party. have no difficulty in drawing a line between free speech One of the worst examples for me was the member and online abuse. I thank the hon. Member for Ashfield who mocked up photos and memes of me dressed in the (Lee Anderson) for lightening up this rather dark debate striped clothes worn by Jews in concentration camps. with his joke about breathalysing people before they go Other members reported his behaviour, yet nothing at on Facebook, but what we have heard from all around all was done until he posted support for a different the Chamber is a horrific litany of disgusting abuse online. political party, when he was swiftly expelled. I look Online abuses have a real-world impact. We cannot forward to the changes that my party and social media just take refuge in dualism. We cannot say that the platforms will bring in on online abuse, and to the end online world is different from the real world, because it of these anonymous accounts that are not verified. is not. As we know, we have seen the final, awful result of some of this, which is that young people and other 3.36 pm people have taken their own lives. Claire Coutinho (East Surrey) (Con): I, too, congratulate On anonymity, the hon. Gentleman, the hon. Member my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) for Barrow and Furness (Simon Fell) and the hon. on securing this debate. It is always a privilege to follow Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho) made the the hon. Member for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield). very sensible point that, of course, anonymity has its My constituent Frankie was subject to online stalking, place in all this. It can provide much needed support for which started on social media but escalated to severe whistleblowers, for minorities finding a safe online space harassment in the workplace, including incredibly offensive for self-expression, and for victims of physical abuse emails sent to both her and her colleagues. That caused connecting with a support network. The conversation serious distress for Frankie. While the police were able about anonymity is difficult and we may have to make to track down her online stalker, because the stalker was trade-offs in what the Bill contains. We may not like based in a different jurisdiction—they were based in some of the trade-offs, but at the end of the day, it Scotland, a very long way from East Surrey, and had would be much more worrying if the online safety Bill happened upon her almost by accident—nothing could did not get to the heart of the issue. I sincerely hope that be done, leaving that person free to go on and abuse again. it will. 969 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 970 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [Jamie Stone] 3.45 pm Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP) [V]: I thank all Let us face it: we already take a variable approach. If Members on both sides of the House who are working somebody wants to buy alcohol—booze—they have to together to address this issue. prove that they are of a certain age; they have to prove As many people live increasingly online, never more who they are. If someone wants to get a certain job, so than during the past year, it is time to get serious take out some sort of loan and or make a financial about making the online world safer and protecting transaction, they have to prove who they are, so there is pluralism, democracy and the mental health of the a precedent for such proof. Lastly, we have the technical many people who engage online. As I suspect most know-how to tackle this issue. It is out there and we can Members will know, particularly female Members, online use it. abuse from anonymous accounts has sadly become part I want to make it very clear to the Government that it of daily life for most roles in public life. Social media is will not be easy but we have to get the identification a vital tool for engagement, to listen as well as to issue sorted out. It would be a hugely valuable achievement broadcast, so it is a problem when people have to wade to pull this one off, because I never again want to hear through pointless abuse, perhaps gendered, sectarian or the sort of stuff that I have been hearing in this debate, racist, particularly from accounts that appear to have such as how the hon. Member for Stroud and many been set up for precisely that reason. others have had this dreadful stuff flung at them. It is Although there are tools to report and block accounts, just the lowest of the low. it usually has to be done by the victim of abuse, after the 3.42 pm abuse has been experienced and the damage done. This has a cumulative effect, and it is easy to see how it is Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con) [V]: I, alongside everyone being harnessed politically in something of a war of else, want to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member attrition against opposing political voices. This is a new for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on securing such an important manifestation of a phenomenon familiar in Northern debate. I start with the basic principle that what is illegal Ireland and elsewhere, of low-level, persistent abuse offline must be illegal online. If a person shouts and and intimidation that is designed to wear down an threatens to murder someone in the street, if they threaten opponent to the extent that they decide that expressing to rape them, if they are racist, if they stalk someone: a particular viewpoint just is not worth the hassle. these are crimes and people must be held accountable for them. However, by enabling anonymity online, we Misinformation is an additional and pressing concern are allowing people to get away. We are encouraging with far-reaching consequences, whether through sowing lawlessness and that must be stopped. distrust and hate or more literal and immediate impacts, We have heard many reasons today why anonymity is as with systematic misinformation about the covid-19 important, such as if someone is a whistleblower, if they pandemic. Most concerning of all is the harmful impact are a victim of sexual assault or if they are simply that anonymous abuse can have on young or vulnerable writing a blog about something that is not their day job. people. Research shows that bullying and receiving content These are all reasons why anonymity is important, but a they wish they had not seen is widespread among young person must waive that right when they commit a crime. people, and it is mainly sent by people who are not At the moment, it is far too difficult for the police to prepared to attach their own name. We have heard find out who the perpetrators are. It can take up to a tragic stories of online bullying of adults and young year in some cases, even in very serious cases, to track people—bullying that may continue 24 hours a day, down the authors of these offending tweets and so on. following people into their homes and bedrooms, in a That is what we have to change. way that is impossible to escape. My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and I welcome the moves in the online harms Bill towards Hythe (Damian Collins) was absolutely right when he greater regulation and against anonymity where it is used said that we need to see more action from social media for harmful purposes. Many Members have outlined companies, but we also need to clear up the law, so that some of the reasons why people may choose and need it is simple and easy for the police to track down to act anonymously, but the internet is essentially a large perpetrators. Tackling anonymity is important, because publicspacewithanantisocialbehaviourproblem.Wedesign it not just shields criminals, but encourages lawlessness. and shape our physical environment to promote safety. My hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness If the companies have failed to do that, the Government (Simon Fell) talked earlier about the Law Commission’s should step in. Slightly tangentially,Australia’s regulation finding that anonymity facilitates and encourages abusive of news content shows that, although it is an international behaviours. My hon. Friend the Member for Stroud problem, national Governments can tackle it. was absolutely right when she said that it is just a hop, The online world is a great place to engage, communicate skip and a jump between people behaving badly online and connect, but we need action now to harness it for and that translating into violence on the street. good and to protect vulnerable people and pluralism. We have spoken a lot this week, and in preceding weeks, about how we absolutely need to tackle violence 3.48 pm againstwomen.WhenweseedatafromAmnestyInternational Dr Jamie Wallis (Bridgend) (Con): I begin by on the number of women affected, it does even more to congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud build the case that we need to tackle anonymity. We need (Siobhan Baillie) on securing this debate. It is evident, to make sure people are held accountable for what they from what everyone has said, that this is a clear and do online, and we need to make sure that the absolutely present issue that needs action. I am therefore grateful shocking stories we have heard today cannot be repeated. to the Government for consulting on this and for promising The Government are doing a lot in the online harms to introduce the online safety Bill, hopefully as soon as Bill, and this would be a worthy addition. this year. 971 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 972 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse The White Paper sets out a sensible approach to what film with the intent to cause distress to the person depicted. will be quite a dramatic overhaul of how our online world There is no offence if the original image is not private or is regulated. It is right to take this action, and the severity sexual. of the issue justifies the impact of the proposed regulation Clearly, that leaves people vulnerable to online abuse, on the platforms that facilitate online communications, suffering humiliation and distress, while the perpetrators recalling that fines of up to £18 million or 10% of of such acts can rest easy, knowing that there is no annual turnover for noncompliance are being proposed. criminal offence for which they can be charged. The call This debate is well timed, as hon. Members will have for evidence in the Government’s recently reopened seen a lot of misinformation, most of which originates consultation on violence against women and girls is online, regarding the efficacy and safety of covid-19 comprehensive in covering many types of online and vaccines.This is a dangerous situation, and I am concerned. image-based abuse, but it omits the creation of deepfakes. The actions and comments of some in the EU that have I hope that the Minister will agree with and pass on my fuelled these malicious claims are, frankly, immoral, concerns about that omission, and ask that it is included endangering not just their neighbour but their own in the Government’s consideration of the issues. citizens, too. Fortunately, 94% of the UK have had or I have discussed the matter with the right hon. Member are willing to have their dose, so the Government have for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), who I understand cannot obviously won this battle and have been more successful be present because she is chairing another debate. She than many others in doing so. has done important work on this issue, and I know that It is not just misinformation. From racist or homophobic she shares my concerns. When the online harms Bill abuse to content designed to attack the self-esteem of eventually arrives, we must look to it to outlaw the vulnerable people, we have seen time and again that a making, taking and sharing of intimate images without dangerous minority of anonymous web users can do consent. some truly horrid things from behind the safety of their Although the delay to the Bill has been frustrating, it screens.I welcome the Government’sproposals, and believe will enable us to take account of the Law Commission’s that the approach of regulating and placing some of the current review on this area, which is due to be published responsibility on the firms and platforms facilitating later this year. I hope that the Minister, when winding such communications is the correct one. up, will agree that when the Bill comes forward it must I will use the short time that I have left to make some be used as a vehicle for implementing improvements to observations about the proposals on verified ID. If they the law to protect people in a position like Helen’s. are optional, I am concerned about cross-platform penetration—for example, Google search reporting on 3.54 pm the results of tweets and Facebook posts. There will be some technical difficulties in how we make cross-platform Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) presentations apply. (Lab) [V]: I congratulate the hon. Member for Stroud Secondly, we all know the power of some of the big (Siobhan Baillie). I am the Petitions Committee Chair, tech firms such as Facebook, Google and Apple. I and we have received numerous petitions on tackling believe that they currently have what is necessary to online abuse, with petitioners identifying anonymity as identify a lot of these online trolls, and that the Government a key contributing factor to the abuse of vulnerable forcing a duty of care on them is the biggest and most people online. Last April, reality star Bobby Norris important step that we will take—bringing them to the started a petition entitled, “Hold online trolls accountable table, making them responsible, and calling them out for their online abuse via their IP address”, which when they do not co-operate with law enforcement. quickly passed the 100,000 signature threshold to be considered for debate. Bobby suggested that people’s IP 3.51 pm addresses should be used to ensure that people engaging Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab) [V]: I join in online abuse cannot simply open new accounts if colleagues in congratulating the hon. Member for Stroud they are blocked, but can have their social media accounts (Siobhan Baillie) on securing the debate and opening it permanently deactivated. so effectively. As the debate has illustrated, online and Similarly, a petition to make verified identity a anonymous abuse takes many forms, and it is constantly requirement for opening a social media account was evolving. created on 5 March by Katie Price, who is campaigning One form that was new to me last year was when my on the abuse faced by her son Harvey, and it already has constituent, Helen Mort, told me of the harrowing time nearly 170,000 signatures. In an evidence session last that she had faced because of the actions of someone year, Katie told the Committee, online who is still unknown despite their cruel behaviour. “if you go and get a mortgage, a car on HP, bank credit or She told me of her shock and fear when she learned that whatever anyone wants, they want to know your name and non-sexual images of her had been uploaded to a porn address. They do credit checks…It is simple. Why can’t they do it website, the users of which were then invited to edit the on social media, so that if someone is being abusive then you have photos, merging Helen’s face with explicit and violent their address and you can find them?” sexual images. All this points to a growing public concern that anonymity Deepfakes were made by unknown people from original, allows people to get away with—and worse, encourages— non-intimate images taken from Helen’s social media horrendous abuse of a kind that would simply not be without her consent and superimposed on sexual content. tolerated offline. Petitioners know that whatever measures When she spoke to the police about the images, she was we take will never be enough to stop the most determined told that they could not act because there was no crime. trolls, but it is the same principle we implicitly understand In England and Wales, under section 33 of the Criminal when we lock our doors or install an alarm system: no Justice and Courts Act 2015 it is an offence to non- home security measures will stop determined burglars, consensually distribute a private sexual photograph or but they deter most would-be criminals. 973 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 974 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [Catherine McKinnell] will remove the excuse that is sometimes rolled out that this is freedom of speech, or that such behaviour cannot I am co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group be tackled when an account is anonymous. against antisemitism, and we have seen that anonymity We need to be absolutely clear: abuse is not the same also has an impact on online hate speech. In October as freedom of speech and being anonymous does not 2020, nearly 40% of reported antisemitic abuse online give anyone the right to abuse anyone else. during that month came from fully anonymous or partially anonymous users. It is a worrying trend, and the Antisemitism Policy Trust has written a really important 4 pm briefing on this issue, which I encourage the Minister to Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): I congratulate my hon. read. Several studies have shown that anonymity can make Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on user behaviour more aggressive by creating environments securingthisdebateandtakingtheunusualstepof seemingly less constrained by social norms. The Law Commission’s unifying the entire House on this issue. investigation found that Throughout the pandemic, we have seen how social “anonymity online often facilitates and encourages abusive behaviours. media can be a force for good. It has kept families and Combined with an online disinhibition effect, abusive behaviours, friends connected. It has allowed our children to continue such as pile-on harassment, are much easier to engage in on a practical level.” their education from home. It has helped many elderly people living on their own to tackle feelings of loneliness We have tiptoed around this issue of online harms for and isolation. But these days, social media is often used far too long. The Government must now set out a clear for the wrong reasons: as a platform for abuse, trolling plan to address online abuse and hate speech, and give and bullying, often by anonymous users who hide behind people back control of their online lives. a screen to bombard people with vile and sometimes threatening words. 3.57 pm The abuse has affected every type of user, including Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): I offer my parents, celebrities and, indeed, Members of this House. congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Although I have experienced hateful bullying and online Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) for having secured this debate, interactions since I was elected, I know that it is absolutely and being a voice for those who have no voice. Anonymous nothing in comparison to some of the atrocious abuse online abuse is dreadful to experience. I do not suppose experienced by other Members, from the newest to there is one among us here today who has not experienced some of the longest serving. Sadly, for many female it in one form or the other. It is not, of course, the Members, this abuse often goes further and results in preserve of politicians, the high profile or celebrities: it harassment and threats. I give huge credit to my hon. creeps into every crack in society, as keyboard warriors Friends the Members for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton) hidebehindunidentifiableusernames.However,asMembers and for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie), and all others in of Parliament, we represent every constituent who is on the House who, despite constant abuse from faceless the receiving end, and it is therefore incumbent upon us trolls and bullies, have continued to work tirelessly for to take action on their behalf. the good of their constituents and communities. For their resilience alone, they are a credit to this House. If I am honest, online abuse was not something that I experienced personally before becoming a politician, Of course, this is not a partisan issue. The shocking but in the past 16 months, I have felt the full force of it. abuse that is received by the right hon. Member for Friends and colleagues tell me that it has become more Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) has commonplace over the past year, as people have been been well documented for its appalling and abhorrent locked behind closed doors, struggling through the nature. Not only does such abuse hurt the individual; it confusing ups and downs we have all experienced since damages our political discourse and our ability to debate. covid hit; it seems to have become more acceptable to It ultimately damages our democracy, as it acts as a take it out on others online. On online platforms and deterrent to people becoming engaged in politics at all. public fora, egged on by an often equally anonymous Abusive behaviour on social media is indiscriminate audience, some people say things they would never and impacts many of our nation’s celebrities, sports normally dream of saying publicly, purely because their stars and public figures, particularly if they are female username gives them a level of anonymity. For those on or part of the BAME or LGBT communities. In the the receiving end—even those who have strong, resilient sporting world, sadly not a week goes by without a new support networks to protect them—the effect can be instance of a black footballer being racially abused. devastating, leading to mental and physical health crisis Even our nation’s heroes are not immune, with trolling and even suicide. even aimed at the late Captain Sir Tom Moore and his Abuse like this is cowardly. These people have no family—a man who served this country, raised tens of respect for differences or democracy.They do not represent millions for the NHS and lifted the spirits of a nation. the vast majority of the population, yet despite the fact Despite all his efforts, he and his family were still subjected that we all recognise how abhorrent it is, it still goes on. to online abuse. Before things go too far; before more people suffer; I have to ask, when is enough? Where do we draw the before we hand a life of unhindered online bullying to line? How many more individuals—whether close friends our children, we need to take action. The online harms or public figures—do we have to lose before we start to Bill will help to tackle anonymous abuse by putting a address this horrific online abuse and hate? I think we duty of care on companies towards their users, overseen all agree that the answer is now, and it is long overdue. by an independent regulator. There will be clear safety Sadly, I say all this secure in the knowledge that the standards, mandatory reporting requirements and strong tweets will have already started, attacking me for having enforcement powers to deal with non-compliance. It the audacity to stand up and say, “Enough.” Enough. 975 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 976 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse 4.2 pm of abuse. I cannot pretend that those words have not Naz Shah (Bradford West) (Lab) [V]: With the advent sometimes affected me and given me sleepless nights, of the online world, our experiences have changed and worrying about my wellbeing and that of my loved our networks have transformed. Although we have ones. I have often defended the right to debate, whether revolutionised our lives by connecting with people across in person or online, and I stand by that. However, it is the globe in ways that were unknown before, we have unacceptable for a person to receive online abuse for also sadly neglected the dangers and challenges that their opinions, appearance, gender, or any other reason. come with this online revolution. Let us be real. We all Internet companies need to hold online trolls to account know how hurtful abuse can be, and yet for years we for their words and the damage those words cause. It is have allowed bucketsful of online abuse to go on by. cowardly to hide behind a screen and the anonymity that social media profiles create. The online space has allowed some individuals to mask their characters and express hate in ways that I am fortunate that I have good people around me, would be utterly unacceptable in the real world. I know both inside and outside this House, who I can turn to at first hand the level of abuse, hate and online threats when I received such abuse. However, there are people that I have faced over the years, and it is happening across this country who have no one to turn to, and online today.I know at first hand how a single tweet—which nobody to remind them of their good qualities. As we was up for less than eight minutes—can be misrepresented all know, online abuse can cause irreparable emotional and exaggerated to wrongfully define an individual and and psychological damage for victims. It is not a surprise cause an avalanche of hate and abuse. Due to that one that as online abuse has increased, mental health issues single tweet, an individual was sent to prison for threats have increased among young people. This is a growing that he made to my life and Leave.EU was sued for pandemic, and I am pleased that the online safety Bill misrepresenting me. will begin to address those painful issues by holding internet companies to account. But what will happen to the hundreds of anonymous accounts whose Islamophobic, racist, misogynistic and My constituents have regularly shown their support hate-filled threats are left unchallenged on social media—the for greater accountability from social media platforms tweets of me wearing a hijab, falsely labelling me as an and online abusers, I have been blown away on numerous Islamist paedophile admirer, those describing me as a occasions by the online support I received when I have cancer that will lead to my destruction, and the hundreds shared my experiences. Those outpourings of love and of others that are still online today? In the real world we support are testament to the fact that social media can have hate crime laws and defamation laws, but for the be a safe and positive place for everyone. anonymous trolls the online space has become a free-for-all. In their manifesto, the Government made a commitment This debate is not just about my experiences, or those to make the UK the safest place in the world to be of fellow parliamentarians, of the online abuse that we online. That commitment shows their intent to bring face daily; it is also about the experiences of ordinary about positive change, and I applaud Ministers for people whose stories we never hear. We have the privilege condemning such online abuse. I welcome the review of of sharing our experiences in places such as Parliament, law enforcement powers to tackle illegal anonymous yet we still face this abuse, which is without any abuse online, and I look forward to the Law Commission’s consequences. What hope do my constituents have? recommendations for reform in that area. I hope that Ministers will seriously consider, where appropriate, The online harms Bill is meant to be a once-in-a- whether to bring those recommendations into law as generation opportunity to legislate for the online world, part of the online safety Bill. We must all join together so that we can protect freedom of expression without to say, “Enough is enough”, and we need to take action allowing hate, misinformation, and bullying to go on this now. unchecked. However, the Government have failed to deliver such legislation, and have watered down the contents of the Bill, leaving it with little effect. The very 4.8 pm prejudices that we have fought to tackle over years have John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab) [V]: I resurfaced online. It is almost as if the racism that was am the secretary of the National Union of Journalists once expressed on the street has just moved anonymously parliamentary group, and on behalf of the NUJ, I wish online. to refer to the particular vulnerability of journalists, Parliament’s primary role might not be to change the and the unprecedented virulence and level of the abuse, moral conscience of those in society, but it is definitely threats and harassment that takes place online. Even to legislate against harm, and to protect all citizens of after the experience of a tsunami of abuse in recent this country. I will end with this quote from the great Dr years, the violent, threatening nature of abuse can still Martin Luther King which, sadly, I believe is still relevant shock and cause real fears. today: Let me cite two examples. Patricia Devlin, an award- “Morality cannot be legislated, but behaviour can be regulated. winning crime reporter who works for the Sunday World Judicial decrees may not change the heart, but they can restrain newspaper, received a threat by direct message to her the heartless.” personal Facebook account. The sender threatened to rape her newborn son. It was signed with the name of 4.5 pm the neo-Nazi terror group Combat 18, which has in the Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con): I thank my hon. past had links to loyalist paramilitaries in Northern Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) for Ireland. securing this important debate. For me, online abuse It is not just journalists who work for national media increased when I became the Member of Parliament for outlets who are targeted. The political editor of the Hyndburn, and it has included death threats, threats Liverpool Echo, Liam Thorp, has exposed the scale of against my friends, my family, and a constant barrage threats against and abuse of journalists working in the 977 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 978 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [John McDonnell] May’s local elections—co-ordinated by Warrington Conservative association in WhatsApp chats that were regional media. A perpetrator was jailed for two and a later leaked. Those people have been emboldened by a half years over death threats made to Liam and another political culture that has become utterly toxic, fuelled Echo employee. and accelerated by anonymous online abuse becoming The NUJ has broadly welcomed the “National Action normalised. Plan for the Safety of Journalists” that the Government In addition to the harassment—particularly of women published this month, which stated: and minority communities—that we have heard about, “That there is a problem is undeniable. Too many journalists I am especially concerned about the increasing sexual currently working in the UK do not feel safe from threats, abuse exploitation and abuse of children and the increasing and physical harm”. threat of far-right online radicalisation. Children now The words of Reporters Without Borders are cited in are vulnerable to grooming in ways that no previous the plan: generation has been. Expectations of internet access “Harassing journalists has never been as easy as it is now.” start earlier than ever,and as hardware is now miniaturised The NUJ will work with the Government and other and literally mobile, it is more likely to be accessed away partners on this issue to ensure the safety of journalists from parental oversight than a traditional family desktop and that the strategy is implemented swiftly. computer was.The threat of communicating with strangers, of catfishing or of other unexpected contact from sexual The cornerstones of any strategy to ensure that we predators is real. have thriving, high-quality national and local journalism to uphold our democracy have to be not only firm Anonymity is not the only issue that must be tackled. legislative protections but a fully resourced independent We need to finely balance the many, varied and legitimate media. An effective online safety Bill will be a critical needs for anonymity with the need to address harms component, but so will the securing of a stable future perpetrated by anonymous accounts. But the fact that funding source for quality journalism. That is why the it is difficult and complicated is not a reason not to NUJ has thrown itself into the debate about not only tackle it; it makes the task more necessary and urgent. I the contents of the new legislation but the new funding welcomed the Government’s 2019 White Paper; the matter opportunities to secure for the long term the quality must not be delayed further and I hope that the Government journalism that is so critical to upholding our sense of will introduce legislation as soon as possible. community and our current democratic system. 4.14 pm 4.11 pm Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab): I, too, congratulate Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab): It is the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on an impossible to overstate how much social media has excellent introduction to the subject. I also wish to advanced and become an inescapable part of people’s lives declare an interest as co-chair of the National Union of over the past 15 years. It has made the world a smaller, Journalists parliamentary group. I will use the time that more accessible place, radically changed expectations I have this afternoon to address some of the union’s of access and, yes, opened up new avenues for abuse, concerns about the online abuse of journalists, as my grooming and extremism. good and right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and The circumstances of the pandemic have been a petri Harlington (John McDonnell) did a little earlier in the dish for conspiracies, disinformation and hate speech, debate. especially towards east and south-east Asian people, as Many journalists, particularly freelancers, use social powerfully highlighted in this place by the campaigning media platforms such as Twitter to promote their work work of my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North and the work of their news organisation and, as such, (Sarah Owen). It can seem that social media companies many have been the subject of vile abuse, rape and even are too big, too global and too all-encompassing for us death threats, as my right hon. Friend mentioned earlier. to be able to regulate or hold them to account, but we Women in particular are targets, with those who write must demand standards and protections to ensure online about traditionally male topics, such as sport, technology safety. or gaming, often singled out for particular abuse. The Community Security Trust noted in its most Like the NUJ, I welcome the publication of the recent report that 44% of the 789 recorded antisemitic national action plan for the safety of journalists—it is incidents between January and June 2020 occurred online, long overdue—but there is still a lot of work to do. May and the anti-extremism campaign HOPE not hate says I draw to the attention of the Minister and the hon. that Member for Stroud the fact that the internal moderated “the far right’s use of the web to promote, plan and assist in guidelines that were leaked to The Guardian revealed terrorism is something HOPE not hate has increasingly witnessed that Facebook’s bullying and harassment policy explicitly in recent years.” allows for public figures to be targeted in ways otherwise The Antisemitism Policy Trust is clear that anonymity banned by the site, including calls for their death, which encourages conversations to get more extreme, as it is incredible. eliminates people’s desire to conform to social standards. The NUJ supports the need for much greater The lessening of anonymity leads to more dialogue transparency and accountability from the tech giants in within social norms. Anonymity is the soil—or perhaps tackling the online abuse of journalists and, indeed, of the manure—for growing extremism and abuse. public figures. Social media messaging organisations Of course, online abuse is not solely the preserve of are simply not acting to stop this abuse or to ban serial anonymous accounts. Indeed, I have been subjected to a offenders, and the NUJ quite rightly insists that the new barrage of antisemitic, biphobic and other hateful regulatory framework must make clear to companies harassment—including from candidates standing in this their responsibilities to address this online harm. Crucially, 979 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 980 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse sanctions must exist, even against the tech giants, or to take appropriate actions to safeguard all users, so perhaps especially against the tech giants, and applied if that social media platforms can be a place for people to appropriate action is not taken. It is important to note truly feel safe. that the online abuse of journalists is not always anonymous. The Government stated that improving public recognition Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): of the value of journalists was a priority as part of their No. 33 has withdrawn, so we are moving to our final action plan. Public attacks by journalists on politicians speaker from the Back Benches, Christine Jardine. also serve to undermine the public’s recognition of the value of journalists. 4.20 pm A thriving democracy requires a diverse press. Citizens Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD): Thank you making decisions in a democratic process must be properly very much, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is an honour to informed. I hope that Ministers will meet with the NUJ have the last word from the Back Benches on this. Sadly, ahead of the publication of the Bill to ensure that this is online abuse, the implications it can have and how we the case. deal with it have become major issues in modern society, which are exacerbated by the availability of anonymity to bullies. Let us imagine what it would be like to come 4.17 pm across a bully in a pub or a school and they could Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) (Lab): I thank preserve their identity, so that very little could be done you, Madam Deputy Speaker,for giving me the opportunity to bring them to justice for what they were doing. The to speak in this debate on what is a growing concern for figures we have on online bullying are frightening. One me, my constituents and Members across the House. I in five children has reported some form of online abuse congratulate the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan in the past year. Sadly, we believe that many teenagers Baillie) on securing this debate. just do not report such abuse, as they see it as just part Social media platforms have connected us in a way of society they have grown up with and something that that no one would have thought possible.From rapid instant is to be accepted. How depressing is that? Abuse, torment messaging to sharing content on our everyday lives, we and threats have, apparently, for many of our young are immersed in readily accessible information and people become synonymous not only with social media, news in a way that our parents would have only dreamed but with modern society and life. To those dealing with of. In the past two decades, this immersion in an always a mental health issue the implications of the stress of on and always connected world has had another being subjected to a stream of abuse and bile is unthinkable. consequence. A study by the Turing Institute on online Vulnerabilities are exploited and deep-seated harm is abuse in 2019 estimates that up to 40% of people in the caused. The mental health issues being faced by our UK have seen or been exposed to abusive content, and young people are growing exponentially. It is not the 10% to 20% have been targeted by abusive content. work of genius to link the abuse they are suffering Worse still, that same year, Oxford Internet Surveys online with the impact it is having on their mental found that 27% of respondents had seen contents or health. Age verification and education are important in imagery that were either cruel or hateful and that 10% had reversing this trend, but we must also ensure that social received abusive emails. media platforms take responsibility for what appears and, as many Members have said, we need stricter The ethnic breakdown makes for even more depressing regulations. reading: 41% of black respondents received abusive One important thing we must also do is acknowledge emails compared with just 7% of white respondents. that we have all suffered. I doubt any of us in this place That should come as no surprise to Members who have not been subject to online abuse from some anonymous witness this kind of content on a daily basis. They know source. We have to stand up and call it out. We have to all too well the sheer scale and impact that this abuse recognise the scale of the problem that society is facing can have, particularly as this abuse is often anonymous and the threat it poses to all of us, specifically to our and spread by accounts with peculiar user names with young people. I urge the Government to take this on either eggs or silhouettes as profile pictures. While we board and think about it every time; not just in specific must protect freedom of expression, there should be the legislation about social media or about the media, but same level of accountability for someone who commits in every piece of legislation where it could be important. abuse online as there is for someone who verbally abuses a person on the street. I know the strength of 4.23 pm feeling across this issue in my own area, which is why I am supporting Coventry Youth Activists’ campaign for John Nicolson (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP) a change in Facebook’s policy so that it recognises hate [V]: Online abuse is a curse. Once upon a time when kids speech and discrimination specifically targeting disabled got bullied at school, that bullying stopped at the school people. At the moment, that form of discrimination is gates. Even if they did not talk about their ordeals—and reported under the “other” category, which makes it sadly, we know that many children feel that they cannot— seem acceptable and less important than other types of back at home, in a loving household, they were safe. All abuse. Tech giants can and must do more to protect the that has changed with social media. Today, the bullies rights of their users to feel safe, both online and in their and trolls pursue their victims home and online. We know everyday lives, and their users’ free expression should that this can be traumatic for children. We know that not mean that they are free from consequences of their some have, tragically, taken their own lives as a result. action. Social media companies can absolutely do more The sadism comes in many forms. Recently we have to make the online environment safer. They have the learned of the phenomenon of flashing GIFs posted tools at their disposal, so do this Government. If the tech and targeted at children with epilepsy, with the intention giants will not take action on it, it is up to the Government of causing seizures. Let that sink in for a moment— to give the regulators the resources and teeth they need trolls targeting epileptic kids with potentially dangerous 981 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 982 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [John Nicolson] Like the hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie), I believe that verification is the best way to protect people consequences, again, under the guise of anonymity. online. That does not mean that people—especially Paedophiles have exploited the internet since its inception. those who are vulnerable—should not be able to use a With false identities and ever more sophisticated software, nom de plume, but social media users should have the young people can be entrapped by those pretending to option to prove their identity. That could come with an be someone they are not. equivalent to the blue tick for verified profiles on Twitter. Such verification would allow us to know who we are As a member of the Digital, Culture, Media and interacting with online and know that those we talk to Sport Committee, I have listened to evidence from the are who they say they are. Users would also then be able social media companies—TikTok, Facebook, Twitter to decide whether to block all non-verified users. This and Instagram. They all promise to target the problem, would offer protection to parents worried about their but they are all woefully unresponsive. I asked a TikTok children’s safety online, to those who wish to avoid boss recently why he was not more tenacious in tackling Russian and other bots, and to all of us who would anti-vaccination disinformation targeted at young people. choose to talk only to real people. He said that his company had thousands of moderators hot on the heels of the anti-vaxxers. It only took me a Who among us does not seek to stem the avalanche few moments to find a TikTok account with hundreds of poison, abuse and disinformation? Will the social of thousands of followers posting lies with impunity. media companies embrace such proposals and self-enforce? The evidence suggests not. The Government need to get Politicians are not meant to moan, or we get called tough. Soft-touch regulation is not working. self-indulgent, but we all know the shocking abuse sent to women politicians in particular. When the First 4.29 pm Minister Nicola Sturgeon revealed personal details of Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab) [V]: I thank the tragic miscarriages she had suffered, she was deluged by hon. Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) for securing trolls mocking her or saying that she was lying about this debate, which I know very many colleagues across her family grief. A Holyrood magazine survey found the House wished to participate in. I, too, wish that we that a third of MSPs had received a death threat, with a had had more time to listen to and debate this important third of female MSPs receiving a threat of a sexual aspect of online activity. As she so clearly articulated nature in addition. Before the 2019 election, a survey from personal experience, no woman should be prevented showed that many female MPs who were not standing from doing her job because of online hate. Maternity again cited the abuse they received online as a major leave is a hard-won right for women in this country—it factor in their decision. was introduced by a Labour Government—and all women Misogyny, homophobia and racism have sadly always should be able to benefit from it without having to be been a part of politics, but they are now magnified by subjected to abuse. the perfect poisonous storm: a huge worldwide audience This has been a difficult debate to listen to, particularly and anonymity. I have had a wee taste of it myself the brave speeches from my right hon. Friend the Member recently. I praised online a young trans constituent of for Barking (Dame Margaret Hodge) and my hon. mine last year who had bravely spoken of her life in a Friends the Members for Bradford West (Naz Shah) BBC documentary.Almost instantly,a sinister organisation and for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols). The issues called the LGB Alliance began trolling me. It offered that this debate raises will resonate across the country the reward of a retweet to anyone who donated money because of the prevalence of online abuse. There were to it in my name. I was, as a result, deluged by abuse excellent contributions from Members across the House, from anonymous accounts. I was called a rape enabler, including very thoughtful ones from my hon. Friends a misogynist and, although I am an openly gay man, a the Members for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield), for Oldham homophobe. As an openly gay man, I was also called East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) and for a “greasy bender”. Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell), my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington The LGB Alliance was thrown off the country’s two (John McDonnell), and my hon. Friends the Members largest crowdfunders as a hate group, but Twitter would for Easington (Grahame Morris) and for Coventry North not take its account down, despite it clearly and egregiously West (Taiwo Owatemi). violating Twitter’s own rules. I am a man in my 50s. The My hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella experience was not pleasant, but I was acutely conscious Creasy) mentioned in her speech the charity Glitch, of all the young trans people reading the venom and which found that almost half of women have reported despairing. They have, after all, been subjected to a vile experiencing online abuse since the beginning of the covid online onslaught in recent weeks and months. pandemic. Women from all walks of life are subjected There can be no accountability in anonymity. Social to it, but particularly those in public life, from MPs to media is now so ingrained in our lives that it cannot be journalists to TV presenters. allowed to continue without some form of verification. Today’s debate has been a small snapshot of what has The cowards who send death threats or seizure-inducing become a tsunami of vitriol, hate, misogyny and racism messages or who attempt to groom children would not online, a cesspit that parts of public engagement online dare be so bold if we knew who they were, or at least if has sadly become. Just ask my right hon. Friend the the social media companies knew who they were. Of Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington course, the trolling does not exclusively come from the (Ms Abbott), the journalist Nadine White or the rugby UK. Abuse, misinformation and disinformation flood presenter Sonia McLaughlan. Glitch’s research found in from Russian bots, attempting to undermine our values that 84% of its respondents experienced online abuse and democracy, and over the course of the pandemic, from strangers—a shocking statistic. Members know they threaten our health with covid disinformation. that much of the abuse directed at us is first seen by our 983 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 984 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse staff, and that can and does take a huge toll on them. could have been done years ago. There is far more that Why would any girl or young woman stand for elected the platforms could do using technology to prevent public office or become a journalist or a television presenter abuse from being hosted in the first place, and also to if this is what awaits them? It erodes our democracy and take it down quickly when it is reported. it erodes our society. This is why the online safety Bill is so vital and so There will always be people who spew anonymous urgent, and why it is so important that we get it right, so hate and abuse. In past years, it would be a letter that it is not superseded by technological advancements. hand-written with capital letters and green ink, which That is why Labour backs a principles-based approach. required some effort and the cost of a stamp. In today’s Despite insisting last week that the new law was a priority, world, people have the internet at their fingertips. They the Government have yet again delayed the Bill. Although have become emboldened and they have been joined by we expect it to be announced in the forthcoming Queen’s many others, sadly mainly men, who take advantage of Speech, it is now likely to be more than five years after it unregulated globally powerful and very wealthy online was first promised that it will come into law. This delay platforms—which are, incidentally, also run by men—to is inexcusable, because we know that behaviour online attack and abuse women. Those attacks are copied and can translate to behaviour offline. amplified to the point where it is normalised within The watering down of the measures initially proposed public discourse online. has dripped slowly, very slowly, since the White Paper What should we as politicians and policymakers do was published two years ago next month. Why, if the to improve the situation? I will make two suggestions to Government are serious about clamping down on this the House. First, leadership should be demonstrated in abuse, would they keep in reserve criminal sanctions for this House—we heard lots of examples of that this senior company executives where there are repeated afternoon. When my former colleague Paula Sherriff asked or aggravated breaches of the legislation, rather than the Prime Minister to moderate implementing them immediately, as Labour has called “offensive, dangerous or inflammatory language”,—[Official Report, for? Why would the Government water down the original 25 September 2019; Vol. 664, c. 793.] proposals so that companies will be encouraged to set minimum terms and conditions, as they will be judged the Prime Minister dismissed her request as “humbug”. on how they enforce them? That will incentivise completely Many of us in this Chamber were there to hear that at the wrong approach. first hand. The way we conduct ourselves in this House has an impact on the world outside. When Government The Bill, whenever it eventually arrives, cannot be a Ministers attack journalists and falsely accuse them of lost opportunity to reset the dial on our online discourse. bad practice, they open them up to abuse, too. This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity.Weall recognise and largely agree on what the problems are, and many Secondly, platforms that facilitate and permit abusers of us on both sides of the House agree on the solutions. to operate need to be subject to the same regulatory Plenty of them were suggested today. The Government framework that is applied to products on the market need to stop delaying, stop watering down, catch up that carry a risk of harm, or cause harm to those who with other countries that have taken the lead and get on use them. We need a product safety regulatory approach with this legislation. What have we gained by waiting? for online platforms in the same way as we have them Nothing. What is to be gained by waiting? Nothing. for medicines or children’s toys, to name two examples. This House and the public are impatient to hear from If a product has a risk of harm, then the owner, creator the Government on this legislation. or manufacturer—whatever we want to call them—should take steps to mitigate or remove that risk in order to 4.38 pm operate. We have heard plenty of examples this afternoon The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, of failures by companies to prevent their platforms Culture, Media and Sport (Matt Warman): I want to from hosting and amplifying abuse and attacks.Algorithms start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for promote this, because algorithms feed the platforms’ Stroud (Siobhan Baillie), my right hon. Friend the business models. Justifiable complaints are ignored, and Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) and the community standards are weak and not enforced. hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie As several hon. Members have mentioned, the latest Abrahams) on tabling this important topic for debate. in a long line of shockingly negligent examples concerning Online anonymity matters. It matters because it can Facebook emerged yesterday when it was revealed that give activists in oppressive regimes the means to organise. its bullying and harassment policy explicitly allows for It matters because it can give whistleblowers the opportunity public figures to be targeted in ways otherwise banned to speak out. It can give the uncertain teenager the on the site, including through death threats, according means to research their sexuality or those who do not to internal moderator guidelines that were leaked to want to disclose it the option not to do so. It can give The Guardian. The public figures identified by Facebook the most vulnerable in our society the chance to protect include people whose claim to fame may simply be a themselves from their abusers. But anonymity online large social media following or infrequent coverage in can also give licence to those who threaten individuals, local newspapers. to those who threaten public figures and ultimately to We have heard lots of agreement across the House those who threaten the foundational institutions of our that anonymous accounts that attack people or spread economy and our democracy. We have heard powerful hate should not be amplified, but nor should those that and shocking stories of that sort today. are not anonymous. While there are legitimate reasons Let us be clear: free speech is crucial, and a climate of for people to use a pseudonym online, it is clear that fear creates a crisis for freedom of speech. That is why those accounts should be limited in what they do, and the Government’s online safety Bill is so important. For that other users should be able to limit their interaction the first time, the social networks on which so much of with them. This could be done by the platforms now; it this abuse is hosted will be required to enforce terms 985 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 Online Anonymity and 986 Anonymous Abuse Anonymous Abuse [Matt Warman] period as possible. We want all parliamentarians to feed in to this significant piece of work, and I encourage the and conditions that ban abuse and protect free speech. Members who have contributed today to do that. We That is important not just for anonymous abuse; it is will continue working with Members of both Houses, important in tackling the abuse that is far too prevalent and we will continue to listen to their concerns as we from those who use their real names, too. Abuse online move through the passage of this legislation. or offline, anonymous or obviously identifiable, is not We are also clear that companies should not wait for acceptable, and this Government are balancing the benefits legislation to be in place to take action, so I want to talk of anonymity for those who need it, free speech and the briefly about the measures that platforms are taking. right of every citizen to feel safe. Nobody, not even the For example, Facebook allows users to protect themselves right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John from unwanted interactions. Instagram allows businesses McDonnell), should be free anywhere to call for people and creator accounts to switch off direct messages from to be lynched. people they do not follow. Twitter has introduced a Several Members—my hon. Friends the Members for feature to limit replies to followers, providing users with Ashfield (Lee Anderson) and for East Surrey (Claire more control over who they interact with. All of this is Coutinho) and a host of others—have made compelling good news, but more work needs to be done in this area cases for the option to verify users’ identity when signing to keep all users safe online. up to social media. Such an approach could bring I also want to mention the police’s legal powers to benefits, not least the potential to more easily identify investigate abusive behaviours. The police can already those involved in serious harm and abuse online. Ofcom identify individuals who attempt to use anonymity to will be exploring how platforms can meet the duty of escape sanctions for online abuse where the activity is care, and we must ensure that there are no safe spaces illegal. The UK-US data access agreement, which will for criminals online, but at the same time we must be shortly come into effect, allows UK law enforcement mindful of the arguments, particularly from those users agencies to directly request information. It will significantly who rely on anonymity to protect their safety online. reduce the time required to obtain data for cases involving Grahame Morris: Will the Minister give way? serious crimes. Of course, we recognise that the law must continue Matt Warman: I will give way very briefly. reviewing this area as well, ensuring that the police have the necessary tools at their disposal to investigate Grahame Morris: The Minister is very generous.I wonder anonymous abuse online.The Government are undertaking whether he might address the point that was made by a review with law enforcement to ensure that the current me and other hon. and right hon. Members regarding powers that they have are sufficient to tackle illegal abuse the threats and intimidation directed to members of the online, anonymous or otherwise. The outcome of that National Union of Journalists. I am sure he agrees that work will inform the Government’s position in relation that is unacceptable. Would he agree to meet a delegation to illegal anonymous abuse online and the online safety from the NUJ in advance of the publication of the Bill regulatory framework, as will the LawCommission reviews to listen to their concerns directly? intoexistinglegislationonabusiveandharmfulcommunications, including deepfakes. That report is expected later this Matt Warman: As a former member of the NUJ, it year. would be churlish of me to reject such an invitation, and I know that we are keen to engage with the NUJ. The Government are committed to tackling harms online,including harms perpetrated anonymously.Weknow In December,we published the full Government response that those harms are not evenly spread. We know that to the online harms White Paper consultation, which theydisproportionatelyaffectwomen,theydisproportionately sets out the new expectations on companies to keep affect minorities, they disproportionately affect trans their users safe online. Services that host user-generated people. As has been said, they also disproportionately content or allow people to talk to others online will affect journalists. Anonymous abuse can have a significant need to remove and limit the spread of illegal content, impact on victims, whether they are members of the such as child sexual abuse and terrorist material. All public or high-profile public figures. companies will need to tackle illegal anonymous abuse on their services. All companies will need to assess the The regulatory framework and the criminal law reforms likelihood of children accessing their services and, if so, will better protect all users online while also safeguarding ensure additional protections. Companies with the largest freedom of expression, because it is vital that we get this audiences and high-risk features will have to take action legislation right. We want all parliamentarians to feed in respect of content or activity on their services that is into this significant and important piece of work. We legal, but harmful to adults. That is because certain will continue to work with Members of both Houses, functionalities, such as the ability to share content or and we are confident that our approach, through the contact users anonymously, are more likely to give rise online safety framework and the criminal law review, to harm. The regulator will set out how companies can will tackle online abuse, including abuse perpetrated fulfil their duty of care in codes of practice, including anonymously. I pay tribute to all those Members who what measures are likely to be appropriate in the context have so powerfully brought the need to do so home to of private communications. Users will be able to report us all today. anonymous abuse effectively, and should expect swift and effective responses from platforms. 4.46 pm The online safety Bill will be ready this year. Of course, Siobhan Baillie: I have been asked to be brief, so I the precise timings are subject to parliamentary time, will. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for but in the meantime we are already working closely with allowing the debate to go ahead. They rightly challenged Ofcom to limit the implementation period to as short a me as to whether there should be another debate led by 987 Online Anonymity and 24 MARCH 2021 988 Anonymous Abuse me on this subject in a matter of months, but given that Covid-19: Hospitality Industry it was oversubscribed and given the passion that we [Relevant Documents: First Report of the Environment, have heard today, I think they can see the importance. I Food and Rural Affairs Committee, Covid-19 and food thank the sponsors, my right hon. Friend the Member supply, HC 263, and the Government Response, HC 841, for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) and the hon. and oral evidence taken before the Environment, Food Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie and Rural Affairs Committee on 9 and 23 February 2021, Abrahams). on Covid-19 and food supply: follow up, HC 1156 e-petition We heard the Minister rightly recognise the calls for 552201, Create a Minister for Hospitality in the UK verification, although we did not quite hear about the Government, e-petition 329985, Give further financial steps that could be taken and the importance of anonymity. support to the Events and Hospitality industry,and e-petition I hope that the Minister and the DCMS team will meet 572283, Extend the VAT at 5% for hospitality until at me and a small number of Members to discuss that least March 2022.] further, and perhaps set up a meeting with the tech companies so that we can talk that through. My thanks 4.49 pm to everybody who has contributed; I am really chuffed with the support today. Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con): I beg to move, Question put and agreed to. That this House has considered support for the hospitality industry throughout the covid-19 pandemic. Resolved, I thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting That this House has considered online anonymity and anonymous the debate, and the hon. Member for Brentford and abuse. Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) for co-sponsoring it. Without a doubt, the hospitality sector has been one of the Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): We hardest hit throughout the ongoing covid-19 pandemic. will have a very short, two-minute suspension to make It will have been shut for 10 out of 14 months when it the necessary arrangements, and then move swiftly on eventually reopens.I do not believe that many of us foresaw to the next debate. that a year ago when we entered the first lockdown. 4.47 pm Support for the sector is extensive across the House, as shown by the number of contributors today. This Sitting suspended. debate is almost as booked up as I understand much of the hospitality sector itself is, when allowed to reopen. With that in mind, I will keep my remarks brief and will not take interventions, to enable as many colleagues as possible to speak. In 2019, the hospitality sector contributed £59.3 billion in gross value added to the UK economy—around 3% of total UK economic output. At the start of last year, there were almost a quarter of a million hospitality businesses in the UK. The sector is vital to my North Devon constituency, which is proud to boast 105 pubs, with almost 10% of all businesses being in the hospitality sector. The latest research by UKHospitality shows that the sector will have lost £86 billion in revenue by the end of March 2021, down 68% on pre-pandemic figures. It would have been more were it not for the unprecedented support packages given by the Chancellor, combined with the innovation shown by the sector in adapting their businesses to become covid compliant, increase outdoor capacity, and become take-outs. Our North Devon “Take Out to Help Out” competition saw thousands of residents vote to support their favourite take-out that has helped them through lockdown, and many congratulations to the winner, Nartnapa Thai Kitchen in Lynton. The sector is also wracked with coronavirus-related debt—an estimated £2 billion in rent debt and £6 billion in loans and other finance—which makes the recovery that bit more challenging. As someone who ran a debt- financed small business for 15 years, I know the toll that that type of balance sheet can take on small and medium- sized businesses, of which the sector has so many, and the extra pressure that it puts on achieving profitability, particularly for seasonal businesses that are so dependent ontheirsummerstoseethemthroughtheleanwintermonths. Even assuming that the road map stays on track, the sector cannot fully reopen until 21 June. Some 60% of pubs may not reopen on 12 April, despite the Government’s 989 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 990

[Selaine Saxby] weddings have been either cancelled or postponed since the first lockdown and that the sector to date has lost at relaxing regulations to enable them to trade outdoors least £6.4 billion, a figure that continues to rise. It is fair more easily. That will mean that the support will taper to say that the hospitality sector has received an off before there is a full return to profitability, which is unprecedented level of support across VAT reductions, forecast to take at least six months after the restrictions business rate holidays, grants, loans, the job retention are fully removed. In short, the Government support scheme, the freezing of alcohol rates and a wealth of may be ending too early relative to their lockdown-lifting other measures. road map. I have been in contact with my local hospitality sector This summer will no doubt be busy for UK hospitality. and the national hospitality sector throughout this We know that pubs are one of the top three reasons pandemic, and I very much hope that dialogue will tourists visit the UK, so their survival is linked to our continueasweemergeandbuildbackbetter.TheChancellor inbound tourism and its associated economic benefits. said that he would do “whatever it takes” and indeed he As we move into winter, wet-led pubs in particular are has, but to prevent our vital and much loved hospitality very dependent on their locals returning to the bar, sector suffering from long covid, they may just need a which we know did not happen to historical levels last little more creative support in the coming months. winter. Going back to the pub is a much easier ask than so many of the others that we have endured over the last Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): We year, but have our behaviours fundamentally changed now have a three-minute time limit on Back-Bench during the pandemic? I hope not, as in many rural villages speeches. That will be on the screen in the Chamber and in constituencies such as mine the pub is the heart and on screens virtually. soul of the village. We need to ensure that they can return to their former vibrancy at last orders. 4.56 pm Calls are increasing for a review of beer duty to target Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab): For my support into our pubs, bars, and clubs, which could be three minutes, as the chair of the all-party parliamentary balanced with duty rises in the off-trade, given the ever group for the night-time economy, I want to focus on growing debt that the country is in. The Chancellor has the night-time hospitality sector, which has been pretty shown throughout this pandemic how quickly he and much completely closed for over a year, but which his colleagues in the Treasury can pivot and adapt to makes a massive contribution to our economy and our create new lifelines for businesses. While I pay tribute to tourism sector. Our recent APPG inquiry looked at the his excellent work, perhaps the job is not yet done for effect of the pandemic on the night-time economy and hospitality. we found that without urgent support, many nightlife I believe that a draught beer duty would be targeted, businesses could be lost. We are at the critical point. quickly actioned support and could play a crucial role Lots of venues have just about survived until now but in stopping so many of our vibrant pubs and other they are racking up debts and they need help, so I want hospitality businesses from going under later in the to raise five issues briefly. year. Our pubs provide a safer environment for alcohol First, on debt, many businesses will be in arrears for consumption than elsewhere, and we should do all we rent, utility and other costs by the time that they can can to encourage people to return safely as soon as reopen and, when they reopen, creditors will expect to possible. be paid. We need a solution for that amassed commercial There are now 600,000 fewer jobs in the sector than debt, whether that is a shared burden approach to debt, before covid hit our shores, despite the unprecedented as we have seen elsewhere, or support for long-term support of furlough. As hospitality businesses look to restructuring so that debt does not need to be paid off reopen, I hope that they will engage with the new until businesses are able to do so over the long term. Government packages to get people back into work, We need specific sector support for businesses that such as the kickstart scheme, and reach out to their have been hit harder than in almost any other sector local Jobcentre Plus. I know that in rural North Devon, and will not be able to fully reopen straightaway, and hospitality businesses have not always engaged with for individuals.Disproportionate numbers in the hospitality their local jobcentre, with local ads or posters in the and events sectors are self-employed. Many still fall window historically sufficing, but a wide range of highly into the gaps in support and there is a strong case for qualified people are now unfortunately looking for work extending the job retention scheme for the hospitality and vacancies may well be filled more rapidly through industry until summer 2021. this route than those pre-pandemic. We need support from the culture recovery fund. It is There are other areas in the broader hospitality sector a great idea, but the culture recovery fund has had a whose pandemic has also been problematic, such as our limited impact on night-time venues. Of £1.57 billion, contract caterers and wholesalers. These businesses were only 12 nightclub-type venues have received funds. These not required to close, but their trade has been limited are cultural hubs at the heart of our city and town mostly to the public sector, and they have unfortunately centres and we need to look at the criteria for future missed out on many grant payments. Breweries, especially support. local microbreweries such as GT Ales in Wrafton, despite On the reopening plan, the Government set out a reinventing themselves for home delivery, have had a road map to reopening, which is welcome, but venues challenging time. need to be able to open at the capacity that makes them The wedding industry and its supply chain, quite viable, so it is important that the Government work rightly, have been repeatedly highlighted as a sector in quickly with the sector on testing or other mitigations need, the important big day being intricately linked that can allow venues to open. I am worried that the test with hospitality. It is estimated that more than 200,000 events that are part of the events research programme 991 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 992 are not fully worked up yet. To make that happen, there the past year, but we must recognise the wider role that has to be close partnership with the industry as soon as the British pub plays in our communities and ensure possible. that pubs not only survive but thrive in our neighbourhoods, Finally, security is a key challenge for the sector, and supporting jobs and growth in local areas. I do not think that has yet been fully recognised. Because The Chancellor announced that beer duty would be of covid, lots of security professionals have had to look frozen this year, but I urge the Minister to look at the for alternative jobs and many do not want to risk benefits of a new draught-beer duty rate specifically coming back to an uncertain future. Six in 10 late-night targeting wet-led community pubs and breweries, which door supervisor positions are at risk of not being filled. have not been recipients under other policies. Many That is important because venues rely on them to fulfil pubs and bars are in a perilous financial position, and their licence requirements and cannot open without many will not survive without help. I hope that, during them. There will be high demand for the small numbers of the forthcoming review of alcohol duty, the Minister door staff and we need to look at support and a solution. will reflect on these arguments and help to level the I just have time to mention event cancellation insurance. playing field between the price of beer sold in social Without a Government-backed insurance scheme, many community settings and cheap supermarket alcohol festivals and big events will cancel this summer. France, consumed at home. Holland, Austria, Switzerland and Germany have all introduced some sort of Government-backed scheme. 5.2 pm We need one to protect our world-leading events. Adam Holloway (Gravesham) (Con): I congratulate Nightclubs and music venues bring joy and a sense of my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine community to our cities and towns. We cannot let these Saxby) on securing this important debate. I will make vital businesses fold. It jeopardises our wider economic just a couple of points, on dates and on data. recovery and leads to a massive cultural as well as economic loss to our country. Earlier this afternoon, I rang a friend who runs the Griffin Inn in Sussex to ask about this, and he said that 4.59 pm dates are vital. We must stick to any dates that we have. Over Christmas, of course, many establishments lost Kate Griffiths (Burton) (Con) [V]: I thank my hon. enormous amounts of money buying in stock that they Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) then could not use. In his case, I think it was £25,000-worth for securing this important debate, and I agree with the of stuff. many important points that she made. The unprecedented support that this Government have provided to hospitality On data, some people are having a very good time of businesses over the past year has undoubtedly saved it. Supermarkets are making a fortune.Pubs and hospitality many jobs and livelihoods across my constituency of have been amazingly supported by the Government, Burton and Uttoxeter. However, there is still much more but we must not forget the point made by Ian Eldridge, that can be done to help this industry recover from the who runs a restaurant in my constituency called Bartellas, biggest crisis that it has ever suffered. that they still have enormous costs. They have employer contributions, lease purchase deals and lots of monthly Over the past few years, we have seen the slow decline contracts, and of course they also have maintenance. of our high streets, as habits have changed and online shopping has taken over. We must not allow the same My second point on data is a plea to the Minister thing to happen to our community pubs and the breweries and, indeed, the Prime Minister: things do seem to be that support them. Supermarkets have stayed open and going, thank God, in a very good direction in terms of continued to meet the needs of shoppers during this hospitalisation and deaths, and if we can unlock hospitality period of lockdown, but as we follow the road map and earlier, let us not be dogmatic about it—let us do it. Let restrictions ease, we must ensure that our local pubs are us reopen well-run hospitality, because I would much able and willing to welcome us back. prefer my constituents to be drinking there than cramped in their front rooms. My hon. Friend the Minister will be aware of the high street’s “Shop Local” campaign, but will he support Carling’scampaign to “Support Your Local”? As colleagues 5.4 pm will know, I am proud to represent the historic brewing Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC): Like others, I congratulate town of Burton-on-Trent, where Carling is brewed by the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) on local people. The campaign highlights the role of the securing this very important debate. local pub—a place where old stories are remembered I agree with a lot of the points that have been made and new ones are made, and the best place for a nice by hon. Members who have spoken, but would like to cold pint, but much more than that, a place that is at the add a few more. Despite the unprecedented support heart of our communities. from every level of government, including the Welsh Pubs play a huge role in all our constituencies. They Government and local authorities, yesterday’s Office provide significant employment opportunities for young for National Statistics data offered quite a sobering adults and are at the centre of our towns and villages. In reminder of the devastating impact that the pandemic Burton, pubs and breweries take centre stage in our continues to have on businesses and employment in town’sheritage. Over the past year,they have been working Wales. A year into lockdown, the Welsh unemployment tirelessly to ensure that they keep customers safe, and so rate has risen by 1.1%, while Wales’s perennially high many have gone beyond their usual remit to support economic inactivity rate has reached 24.4%, meaning their communities throughout the pandemic. that a quarter of the Welsh workforce is either not in The £352 billion package of support provided by the employment or not seeking employment. I hope this Government, including for the hospitality industry, has debate will be a helpful reminder to Government of the ensured that the sector has survived the difficulties of importance of the hospitality sector both as an opportunity 993 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 994

[Ben Lake] Many businesses were able to innovate. The Black Door in Scunthorpe, for example, has worked to share its for jobs and for the way in which it helps particular door-to-door cocktails idea with businesses across the regions, particularly coastal and rural areas, where other country. Many venues started offering takeaway and opportunities are sadly fewer and further between. delivery options. Some even generously offered their Before the pandemic, the hospitality sector contributed space for vaccinations to take place. Venues such as the £59.3 billion to the UK economy and employed over Old School in Messingham kept us really entertained 2.3 million workers across the UK. That in itself speaks with their uplifting social media posts. After a long, for the significant contribution that the sector makes, imposed state of slumber, hospitality businesses in but it was also an important gateway into the labour Scunthorpe are raring to open. From Hibaldstow to market for younger workers, with approximately one in Ashby, from Bottesford to Howsham, local business 14 young adults employed in the pub and brewing owners are preparing their teams and their premises to sector alone. This sector is particularly important in go back to work—but they still need help. rural areas such as my constituency of Ceredigion, Moving forward, I urge the Government to continue where approximately 4,500 people, or 17% of the local to carefully review existing restrictions, ending them as workforce, are employed directly by the hospitality sector. soon as we can. I once again urge Ministers to provide It is worth noting that the sector,through local procurement further guidelines for the weddings industry, to allow and purchases from wholesalers such as Harlech socially distanced on-site look-arounds at places such Foodservice and Castell Howell, plays an important as beautiful Cleatham Hall in my constituency, where role in supporting the wider economy and rural incomes. there is space to operate safely. I ask Ministers to review Businesses in the hospitality supply chain, from food support for kennels and catteries; to open up the kickstart wholesalers and breweries to culinary suppliers and scheme for long-standing clubs; and to consider suggestions contract caterers, have not received as much attention, for draught-beer duty relief. I welcome the expansion of but they are essential for the success of the sector and the self-employment income support scheme eligibility should be supported by the Government. criteria, but I hope that Ministers can work with colleagues While this month’s Budget contained several welcome in the Treasury to bring forward the date on which the measures for hospitality, I again urge the Chancellor to fourth grants can be awarded, as many self-employed in extend the 5% rate of VAT to the full financial year my area need this support now. rather than six months and to consider proposals for a Thanks to the incredible support package and some specific draught-beer duty to encourage on-premises real northern grit, many hospitality businesses in my consumption—a point that has been made very effectively area are still with us. They are now pumping up the tyres by other hon. Members. Such measures would help to at the speedway, stocking up the fridges in our restaurants, ensure that hospitality businesses can make the most of and polishing their pint glasses in our pubs. We must the upcoming summer season. Hopefully we can all continue to support them so that on this beautiful spring look forward to a summer of unlocking. With potentially day, we really can look forward to brighter months several months of restrictions, in various forms, to come, ahead, and a chance to build back these valued businesses I urge the Government to be attentive to the needs of in Scunthorpe. hospitality as a pivotal employer and significant economic multiplier. Particularly for those people in areas hardest 5.10 pm hit by the pandemic, its survival is essential for post- Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab) pandemic recovery. [V]: Hospitality businesses in my constituency have had an enormously difficult year: not only have they been 5.7 pm closed for many months, but when they have been allowed to open, they have faced a constantly changing Holly Mumby-Croft (Scunthorpe) (Con) [V]: I thank set of rules and regulations. Many have not received the my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine financial support they needed from the Government, Saxby) for securing this debate. and many are fearful for their future. I only have time to There is no doubt that it is thanks to the Government’s mention a couple of them, but their struggles are shared support schemes that we have been able to prevent by countless other businesses across my constituency. many local hospitality businesses from being lost. Having In December of last year, I visited the Abbey Arms in worked with hundreds of them, I know that local Abbey Wood as part of small business Saturday. Staff businesses always have their employees and our community there told me about the challenges they faced and their at heart. In turn, we in North Lincs value them and uncertainty about the future. Of course, not long after their ties with the community, with places like Mulligans that, all pubs were once again required to close. Other Sports Bar sponsoring local darts, snooker and pool pub owners in my constituency have contacted me, teams. Many of my local hospitality businesses did not including the owners of The Duchess of Kent in Erith let a pandemic stand in the way of their helping people. and The Victoria in Belvedere. They need assurances I could list many examples our area can be proud of. from the Government that they will be treated fairly in For example, the hospital’s sports and social club opened the future and provided with support to reopen. The up space for NHS staff to use for meetings. The Shires coming months will be particularly difficult for pubs and many, many other pubs have provided hot food and other venues with no outdoor space. Can the Minister options for those at home. Pubs such as the Queen’s set out what he will do to help these businesses? A great Head in Kirton have provided lunch for volunteers and number of my constituents are rightly concerned about health workers in our vaccination centre. the future of their local pubs. Pubs are centres of our Many local hotels provided accommodation to NHS communities, and the Government urgently need to set workers and worked with North Lincolnshire Council out how they will help pubs not just to reopen, but to to provide a place to stay for those who faced homelessness. thrive, in the coming months and years. 995 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 996

The wedding and events sector has been extremely of small businesses and our local high streets. We now hard hit. Local family businesses have had to fight to need decisive action that gives independent businesses survive over the past year, as nearly all their usual confidence in the future,and safeguards people’slivelihoods. business has disappeared. Many businesses in the events That is why Labour is calling for an ambitious high sector have been repeatedly refused grant funding by streets fightback fund that will give much-needed assistance Bexley council, which cites the Government’stight criteria. to those businesses that have been most devastated by These are businesses that have been allowed to fall the pandemic. Labour’s plans will stop small to medium- through the cracks. The Government must look again sized enterprises being swallowed by a black hole of at what more funding can be provided to help these debt, by allowing businesses to start repaying Government businesses restart as restrictions allow. Of course, behind loans only when they begin to grow again. Businesses each of these businesses are people who have taken must also be allowed to convert debts into employee risks to start small businesses and contribute to our ownership trusts, giving workers a real stake in the economy, our community, the people they employ and future of their workplaces. We must also create the the supply chain of which they are part. conditions that allow local shops to compete with online Hospitality workers are disproportionately likely to retailers on a more equal footing, and give local authorities be women or from an ethnic minority background, and the powers they need to fill empty units as a means of just this week, the Office for National Statistics published revitalising our neglected high streets. Finally, we need statistics showing that people under 25 account for 60% action to tackle the scourge of low pay and insecure of the jobs lost since February 2020. The human toll of work that has plagued the hospitality industry for far the pandemic has taken many forms, but we must not too long. That means ensuring that every employee is forget those who have lost their jobs or their businesses. paid at least the minimum wage and has a guaranteed We need action from the Government right now to number of hours each week. ensure the hospitality industry is properly supported. 5.17 pm 5.13 pm Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): May I draw the House’s Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab) [V]: I drawthe attention attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ of the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests? My hon. Friend the Member for Financial Interests. North Devon (Selaine Saxby) has eloquently set out the At long last, we find ourselves in the final stretch of substantial measures that the Government have put in the long war with covid-19. Thanks to the tireless efforts place to support the hospitality industry, but where a of NHS staff and volunteers, vaccination rates are sector is affected, there is also a massive impact on its soaring, and many of us are now eagerly looking forward supply chain. Over the past eight months, consumers to the gradual relaxation of lockdown measures and the have purchased their food in supermarkets. They have reopening of shops, cafés, restaurants and pubs. However, moved from out-of-home to in-home consumption, and for much of the hospitality industry, the next few months supermarkets have done well, especially those selling will be fraught with uncertainty and worry. Independent foods, wines and beers that were previously available businesses up and down our high streets are in the midst only at people’s local pub or restaurant. of an intense cash crisis. Grants and loans have been There is an assumption that suppliers to the hospitality exhausted; proprietors are being forced to defer bills industry have been able to pivot to create products for and mortgage payments; over half of businesses in the the retail sector, but that is not the case. Many product accommodation and food services industry have just lines are dedicated to hospitality, which has led to many three months’ cash reserves; and many small businesses suppliers losing stock through its going out of date and find themselves burdened with unmanageable levels of being wasted. Large quantities of cask ales have been debt that could well sink our economic recovery. Once poured away. Even when goods are not date-sensitive again, this Government are failing to do what is needed there are seasonal stocks, and suppliers have found that to protect the hospitality industry. capital has been tied up in stock in warehouse space. Time and again I have called in the House for a Wholesale suppliers work in high-volume, low-margin comprehensive package of support that gives owners businesses with high fixed costs, meaning that a small and workers much needed security and peace of mind fall in sales has a disproportionate impact on profitability. in the challenging months ahead. Instead, all this Many suppliers also have the challenge of customers Government have delivered are piecemeal measures that who are unable to pay. Cash sales from one period are have left much of the hospitality industry barely able to often used to pay suppliers for goods delivered in the keep its head above water. Businesses today have access previous period, and to that extent, many suppliers to to lower levels of financial support than they did at the the hospitality sector are acting as banks and funding start of the pandemic, despite finding themselves in far their customers. Suppliers are unable to take action if a more severe financial trouble. The Government were far hospitality business simply does not have the cash. too late in extending the furlough scheme and business I do not call for specific support for suppliers. The rate relief—a delay that needlessly cost jobs. The March best outcome for suppliers is for their customers, and Budget contained no measures whatsoever to assist the hospitality sector, to get trading again. The road small businesses with much-needed debt restructuring. map out of lockdown gives us the date of 12 April for The impact on workers has been devastating. Prior to reopening outdoor hospitality, but that will be available the pandemic, more than 3 million people—8% of the only to limited outlets, such as those with pub gardens entire UK workforce—worked in hospitality. Over the or big areas of pavement space in front of them. Therefore, last year, a wave of redundancies has swept the sector, 17 May, when indoor hospitality opens, will be a much with the youngest and lowest-paid workers bearing the more significant date. We know from previous experience brunt. Our economic recovery will be built on the backs that hospitality businesses can put in place measures to 997 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 998

[Mark Pawsey] one thing and the UK Government are saying another— and sometimes we wonder whether it is done to deliberately keep customers safe. They still have screens, which are contradict the UK Government—that is not helpful. often still in place, and they are ready with supplies of Thirdly,a package for capital investment would be helpful. sanitiser and wipes. Finally, we need to get back into training, because too The key date of 21 June is when all restrictions will be many people are leaving the profession, and the profession lifted. Some are calling for the dates to come forward. I will be denuded if it cannot offer the standard of cooking, think that certainty is more important than doing it service and so on. Let us hope we get through this early. All businesses need time to get their plans in pandemic, which we surely will, and let us hope we have place, so let us give them that certainty. I ran a business, a vibrant hospitality business to hit the ground running and I do not see how it is possible to manage a business when the time comes. without knowing when the customers will be there to receive the goods. The hospitality sector is looking 5.22 pm forward to getting back to business, serving its customers, Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con) [V]: I congratulate getting staff back into work, helping to get the economy my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine moving again, rebuilding its supply chain and bringing Saxby) on securing this important debate. I am a Devonian people together, which it can do in a safe and secure born and bred. When I think about my home county, I manner. think about the breath-taking views on the south-west coast path. I think of the vast swathes of the Jurassic 5.20 pm coast, rolling countryside, Georgian seaside towns and Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) beautiful villages stretching from Sidmouth to Exmouth. (LD): I thank the hon. Member for North Devon But not just the views make me smile. The warm welcome (Selaine Saxby) for securing the debate. First, I want to that visitors receive in our towns and villages—in the cafés, mention a business in the town of Tain in my constituency pubs, restaurants and hotels—also makes me smile. called Platform 1864, which is a restaurant and pub run The hospitality industry is the lifeblood of East Devon’s by a man called Graham Rooney.Graham Rooney started towns and villages, which I am incredibly proud to some years ago with absolutely nothing—not two beans represent. There is no doubt that, without the financial to rub together—and he built the business up. He is a support the Government have provided, many of the damn good chef. Then the pandemic hit, and we thought, places that residents and visitors enjoy simply would “What’s going to happen to poor Graham?”It was exactly not be around to reopen their doors. That financial as the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Holly Mumby-Croft) support kept staff on the books, helped pay the rent and said: he went into the takeaway business. People go paused other payments and bills. I am pleased that the online, order their scoff, and then he delivers it. My Government will inject extra cash into the industry with mouth waters when I think of his roast beef and Yorkshire restart grants, as well as extending cuts to VAT and pud, and my wife loves his prawn paella. He has traded business rates. We must continue to recognise how vital his way out of the situation. the hospitality industry is and consider further steps to Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op): Give help the sector. him a free meal! Everyone who works in the industry is an ambassador for both my county and our country. Straight after the Jamie Stone: There is nothing like a free advert in the Budget, I joined a call with hotel owners in Sidmouth, House of Commons—whether I will get a free takeaway, who welcomed the measures that the Chancellor I rather doubt; we shall see. announced. However, recruitment and retention remain My constituency depends on the tourism industry, a challenge. It is quite right that the Government want and the tourism industry depends on the hospitality businesses to invest in their domestic workforce—to industry. We have been in terror of any one of these train them up and improve local skills—but it is also businesses shutting down forever, because if that were about getting across the message that hospitality is a to happen, it would impoverish the tourism product skilled and rewarding career. that we offer to visitors. The visitors would then say, Working in hospitality involves a positive attitude “It’s not so much fun coming,” and they will not come, and a strong work ethic. Many locally who started out and we could end up in a downward spiral. Keeping these in hospitality by taking a seasonal job to earn some businesses going is utterly crucial. extra money have risen to become integral parts of the I will conclude by mentioning another business, this management teams in their venues, or have started new time in the north of my constituency: Mackays Hotel in ventures with experience that they gained. I will continue Wick. It is a great and famous old hotel, and it is owned to work on this issue with businesses in East Devon and by a man called Murray Lamont. He has been very wise to look at ways the Government can ensure that the in the way he has conducted himself. I would ring him new, fairer immigration system works for them. up every so often during the pandemic to ask, “How’s it I have lost count of the number of times that I have going, Murray?” He is a brave man; he would say, raised the need for continued financial support for the “We’re going to get through this.” I so admire the spirit hospitality industry with Ministers and on the Floor of of people like Graham Rooney and Murray Lamont. the House. I am glad they heard the calls and responded Murray has four things that he wants me to mention in the Budget. People should have every confidence that in the Chamber. First, let us not shut off the reduced they can go back into cafés, pubs, restaurants and VAT rate too soon, because it is a life saver; I give hotels when they reopen, whether to meet friends and thanks to the Government where it is due. Secondly, family or to have a quiet drink after what has been an clarity on rules about reopening and travel would be exceptionally difficult year for us all. I am sure everyone invaluable. Where the Scottish Government are saying will be welcomed safely back to East Devon. 999 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1000

5.25 pm The past 12 months have made us all appreciate things Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab): I thank that we took for granted, and many of us are now my co-sponsor of this debate, the hon. Member for desperate to get back to our hospitality sector. Whether North Devon (Selaine Saxby), for her excellent opening it is our local pub or coffee shop or the favourite meal speech. that we always order at the same restaurant, there can be no doubt that we have all missed such simple pleasures. The hospitality sector is where we celebrate, mourn, catch up, hold work and community events, raise money Our hospitality sector has been amazing over the past for good causes, or just grab a bite when there is no time 12 months. As restrictions changed and came and went, to cook or when we are travelling. Hounslow borough businesses jumped through hoops to keep their staff has 630 hospitality sector businesses—restaurants and safe and to welcome customers safely. They should be cafés, pubs and bars, hotels and many more. Some have highly commended for that effort. Many have adapted been able to open for some of the pandemic, but others— their services, morphing into takeaway food outlets or particularly wet-led pubs, wedding caterers, large events offering home deliveries of afternoon teas or Sunday venues and party organisers—have been completely closed roasts. Even though times were bad for them, many still for the majority of the time. The pandemic has had a found time to help others, and I want to make special huge impact on the whole sector, and many businesses mention of the landlord of the Ashmore Inn, Kevin may not reopen. Ward, who set up a food bank in Ashmore Park. When I visited the Ashmore Inn, I was struck by Kevin’s The pandemic and the uncertain future falls hard on typical Black Country spirit of helping other people the low-paid, who dominate the hospitality sector, as do and of community. The sense of community we have in the under-25s. Hospitality workers are more likely to our pubs in Wolverhampton and in the wider Black have lost their jobs than have been furloughed, so they Country is something very special. In my maiden speech, make up a significant proportion of the skyrocketing I spoke of an epidemic of loneliness as our society number of universal credit claims—there are more than changed and this is one reason I cherish our pubs, as 17,000 claimants in my constituency. Behind each one lifelong friendships flourish. I talk to so many older of our hospitality businesses are many others in the people who have drunk in the same pub with the same supply chain: from companies that provide towels and group of friends for decades. cleaning to taxis, musicians, event organisers, wholesale food suppliers and many more—businesses that have Although on occasion I did take issue in this place missed out on most of the covid relief schemes. with the level of support to our wet-led pubs, I would like to thank the Government for the wide range of Until a year ago, the hotels in Hounslow and west schemes to support our hospitality industry—there are London, being close to Heathrow, were full to the brim. too many to list. I also want to welcome the welcome However, the huge drop in international travel and the back fund. Wolverhampton has secured £230,000 to get travel and tourism sector has had a huge impact, including high streets and our city centre ready for summer and for a business in Isleworth that makes airline food and really help our hospitality industry to recover. I gently has written to me. Again, I urge the Government to ask, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon provide aviation communities such as Hounslow with did, that dialogue continues with industry bodies such the support that they desperately need. as UKHospitality, CAMRA—the Campaign for Real Across the whole hospitality sector we are seeing Ale—the Society of Independent Brewers and the BFBi, great, viable businesses that are on the brink or have based in my constituency, so that we can continue to gone under because of the lack of timely and adequate look for any more help that might be needed, whether support. I do wonder whether anyone in the Government through extensions to VAT cuts, measures on business has ever run a business anything like the ones that rates or other means. I have written to the Chancellor Members are concerned about. asking him to consider a cut in duty for beer served in By contrast, I pay tribute to the work done by Hounslow pubs. That could be entirely funded by adding a small Council to support businesses in the hospitality sector. cost to beer purchased in supermarkets. The council has developed a hospitality reopening safely Despite the awful time for hospitality, I am an optimist. toolkit; provided face-to-face business support to help With the vaccination programme rolling out and summer with the reviewing and adaptation of premises; run coming, I look forward to getting back to one of the many recover and regrow courses online, which have built fantastic restaurants, cafés and pubs in Wolverhampton. resilience; and helped to showcase the Shop Safe, Shop Local campaign, which has encouraged people to support 5.31 pm our amazing local independent businesses. I hope the Government will promise to listen to those Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab) [V]: in the sector and give them a clear and long-term plan, Pre covid, the number of people who worked in Greater as the hon. Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey) said. Manchester’s night-time economy alone stood at 414,000, They should bring in many of the other elements described which is 33% of Greater Manchester’s workforce, but as today by Members such as my hon. Friend the Member the rest of the country emerged from the first lockdown for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith), so that we can last year Greater Manchester was quickly propelled move forward to what are hopefully better days for the back into restrictions, with limited financial support. sector. Half of businesses now do not expect to break even until the end of 2021. The insolvency risk has grown 5.28 pm month on month in the sector and is now at its highest Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con) point since at least April 2020. UKHospitality predicts [V]: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for that a failure to act now to solve the rent crisis could North Devon (Selaine Saxby) on securing this debate trigger thousands of hospitality businesses to fail across and thank her for doing so. the UK. 1001 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1002

[Rebecca Long Bailey] labour of love as much as it is a profitable business. We need to get them open and functioning as quickly as So what must the Government do? There are a few possible. urgent steps they could take today. First, they could I welcome the fact that pubs and restaurants will be ensure that the millions still excluded from Government able to open up outside on 12 April, but, looking at the support receive financial support equivalent to the self- data, I cannot see why they should have to wait a further employment income support scheme and that this support five weeks before taking on inside trade. It is even longer is backdated. Secondly, they could provide Government- for hotels and other parts of the sector. backed insurance and event cancellation insurance to My call on the Government today is to look at the data. give businesses and events full confidence to reopen and With the vaccination programme going the way that it plan for the future when restrictions lift. Thirdly, they is—fingers crossed that that continues—we could get could provide an urgent and significant sector support hospitality open very quickly.Everything is interdependent. package for hospitality, events and tourism, including a The shopping areas in my constituency do best when Government-backed solution to spiralling rent and there are pubs, bars and restaurants nearby, and pubs, commercial debt arrears, and revisit the business rates bars and restaurants do best when the shopping areas cap, which unfairly penalises large numbers of hospitality are open. The area also does well when the caravan sites businesses, which will find themselves paying full rates are open, which, thank goodness, they will be on 12 April, just days after restrictions are fully lifted in June. because that brings in thousands of people. Therefore, if Fourthly, the Government could protect local brewers we take out a whole sector, it has a major impact on the and micro-pubs by stopping the tax hike in proposed community. changes to the small brewers relief and review beer The hospitality sector is important for jobs, particularly duty. Lastly, they could protect workers by ensuring that for young people who have suffered during this pandemic. the furlough scheme can run for as long as it is needed; We need to nurse this area back to health and I hope increasing statutory sick pay to a level that people can that the Government do so by speeding up the unlock actually live on; and setting up a hospitality commission and getting people back to business. to identify a sector recovery plan as well as investigate unscrupulous and exploitative practices where they are 5.37 pm found in the industry, such as fire and rehire and the denigration of employment terms. Giles Watling (Clacton) (Con) [V]: I send my thanks All we ask for in Greater Manchester is the ability to to my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine protect jobs and income while we keep people safe and Saxby) and the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth get back on our feet. So if the Government want to (Ruth Cadbury) for securing this important debate. back their levelling-up rhetoric with real action, they will My constituency of Clacton is all about tourism. provide the economic support our workers and businesses Much of it was created for tourism. Hospitality is the need. cornerstone of our tourism offer, employing thousands of people and delivering hundreds of millions of pounds 5.34 pm to the economy.Hospitality businesses—be they bed and Sir Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): I, too, congratulate breakfasts, hotels, cafés, bars, or pubs—can be found my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine up and down our sunshine coast. In fact, according to Saxby) on securing this debate. We all know that, in the the results of my recent covid recovery survey, for which west country,hospitality is very important. It is responsible I had a very good response and I thank everyone for for many, many jobs. How quickly we get back to normal responding to it, some 20% of our local businesses are will depend on what levels of unemployment we have in in hospitality. Those businesses are full of hard-working our constituencies. I commend the Government for staff who always offer fantastic service and a very warm what they have done. When they had to work rapidly on welcome. They help to make Clacton the wonderful the schemes to support people—whether it be the furlough place that it is and I thank them for that. scheme or the self-employment grant—they did so very Throughout the pandemic, it has been incredibly efficiently. The whole British Government have been important to me to ensure that those businesses had all more functional and more efficient than I might have the support that we could get for them. The Government thought before the start of this crisis. When they have had have stepped up to the plate over the past 12 months to act, they have done so quite swiftly. and Tendring District Council has been brilliant at Where I have a slight difference with the British delivering the new funding, alongside its own discretionary Government, which is why my voting record on one or schemes. I know that the business rates holiday, the two occasions has not been wholly in line with lockdown, VAT cut extension and the new business loans have is that I am still not convinced that hospitality and particularly benefited, and will continue to benefit, our non-essential retail are as big a problem as the Scientific hospitality businesses. The furlough and the self- Advisory Group for Emergencies and others have suggested. employment income support schemes have also helped Many of these businesses were running in the summer many individuals. These have been positive interventions in a very covid-friendly way—many were encouraged to and I have no doubt that they will continue until some invest in being covid-safe. I still believe that they are a form of normality is resumed. soft target that has been closed down too quickly. Thankfully, with the success of the vaccine roll-out, it The Government could make amends by looking at looks like we might be back to normality at the end of the data, considering the situation and, perhaps, speeding lockdown. Now we need to ensure that our hospitality up the opening up of hospitality. There are some big businesses are ready to take advantage of the new groups in hospitality, but there are also an awful lot of opportunities that I am sure will come. I think that we small businesses. There are some people who retire on a will have a massive influx of domestic visitors to the pension to run a pub or a restaurant which is really a Clacton constituency this year. Our local destinations 1003 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1004 are already reporting a surge in demand for this summer into all sorts of matters in Northern Ireland. Put your as staycations are, unsurprisingly, proving popular again. nose into that matter, Minister, and fix that. Let us have Clacton’s beaches are, I think, the closest to London the flexibility over those moneys and let us fix this sector. and the best. No hospitality business can afford to miss out on the opportunities that this influx will present, 5.43 pm which is why the new restart grants will be so crucial. Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP) They will help our hospitality businesses to open safely— [V]: This pandemic has posed challenges for all of us and safety is a key word. Although I welcome this and for every business, not least the hospitality sector. potential influx, I ask that people act responsibly. If This very important but beleaguered industry—the third tourism businesses spend the money and open safely, largest employer across the UK—will take some time to people must respect that and act accordingly. recover from this health pandemic. Parts of the industry Speaking of support schemes, it is important that the are on the verge of collapse and it was a mistake for the Government’s work to help our arts, culture and sports UK Government not to provide the kind of sector-specific institutions is recognised. We now have an additional support that it so desperately needed. The VAT cut is £700 million to help these attractions as they reopen. welcome, but the industry faces a cliff-edge in September, One last word: please, please, we must get that beer which could prove a death-knell to those barely hanging differential to support on-sales, otherwise we might lose on. The importance of extending the VAT cut until at pubs again. least the end of the year must not be overlooked if we want to save as many businesses and jobs in the sector 5.40 pm as possible. Many hospitality businesses operate on a Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): I, too, congratulate seasonal basis, and therefore may have to wait until next the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) on year before their balance sheet starts to begin to look her excellent speech introducing this important matter, healthy again. which affects all our constituencies and our economy. Despite my repeated representations, no consideration I think we are all looking forward to the unlocking of has been given to the unique challenges facing operators hospitality.Personally, I am looking forward to attending of hospitality businesses in island communities—such a three times postponed Van the Man concert at the as Arran in my constituency, which has at times during Europa Hotel in Belfast in June, and then—the following this pandemic been subject to higher restriction levels weekend—attending the wedding of my best friend than mainland communities—which are concerned that Stuart and his beloved Rachel; that’s me getting invited islands may not necessarily be able to exit the pandemic to it now, Madam Deputy Speaker. at the same time as mainland communities. As many Members have already mentioned, the wedding The Scottish Government are doing all they can with industry has been under immense pressure and it is the limited powers they have, and their year-long hospitality important that it is supported by the Government in a rates relief remains more generous than the three-month very practical way.The hospitality sector is a key economic relief offered in England. Indeed, Scotland has the most driver across the entirety of the UK. Indeed, my generous non-domestic rates regime in the UK, but we constituency regularly attracts over 1 million out-of-state also need business interruption loan schemes to be converted visitors to the Giant’s Causeway and the North Antrim into grants, something I called for last April, in order to coast annually. That is a significant driver for our save businesses and jobs. The pressing need for that grows economy.Hotels from Ballycastle to Ballymena, restaurants by the day. From April the hospitality sector, already on and all sorts of other facilities are a key part of that its knees, will be expected to repay these loans, however employment cycle, and they all need support. Hospitality gradually, and it is clear that many businesses in the sector is Northern Ireland’sfourth largest private sector employer. will be unable to do so and will only add to the debt and It has a £2 billion turnover and purchases a third of all job crisis that we face. So I ask the Minister: extend the Northern Ireland’s agrifood productivity, so it is essential VAT cut until at least the end of the year. Look at what in driving the cycle of our economy. Two thirds of our additional support can be given to our island communities, entire tourism spend comes from hospitality. In the past given their unique circumstances. Convert business 12 months, 70 million drinks and 60 million meals have interruption loans to grants and continue furlough for gone unserved as a result of the lockdown. Debts of as long as restrictions remain in place.The UK Government over £1 million a day are stacking up; £1.4 billion is surely understand the need to avoid business failures the loss so far—and counting—to the income of those across the sector, as well as mass job losses. That does businesses. not need to happen, and I urge the Minister to do all he can to help us avoid that outcome. We need four things. First, we urgently need a fixed date for the opening of our sector. We do not have one Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Thank at all in Northern Ireland, and that needs to be flagged you. How we wish we could really go to Ayrshire—well, up immediately. I understand that Scotland and England atleastIdo.ButnowwegotoCheadle,andMaryRobinson. at least have a date. Secondly, we need flexibility on furlough. Thirdly, debt is a massive issue; the Government 5.46 pm must back a loan scheme that allows for the consolidation of the debts accrued and a flexible payback system. Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con): Thank you, Madam Fourthly, local government needs flexibility over how it Deputy Speaker, and welcome to Cheadle. spends money.Tourism Northern Ireland actually handed I am glad to thank my hon. Friend the Member for back to Westminster £5 million in the last few months North Devon (Selaine Saxby) and the hon. Member for because we do not have the flexibility to reallocate that Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) for securing money to the areas for which the bid was originally this debate and giving us the opportunity to reflect on made. The Secretary of State is prepared to put his nose the difficulties that hospitality has faced during the 1005 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1006

[Mary Robinson] First, I want to reference my union. I urge the Minister to look at Unite the union’s fair hospitality charter and pandemic. Those difficulties have been particularly hard-felt 10-point plan. The plan has been devised by people who by businesses in areas such as Greater Manchester, work in the industry and it has a lot of merit. which were placed under local restrictions and in higher I believe the Government should show some contrition tiers during the autumn, and have suffered for longer. in respect of the hospitality sector.Pre-covid, the hospitality The Government’s unprecedented support has certainly and tourism sector employed about 3 million people, or been welcomed, with the bounce back loan scheme, the about 8% of the UK workforce. Delays to the extension coronavirus business interruption loan scheme and the of the job retention scheme and uncertainty about that furlough scheme, which have been lifelines for many; extension have led to redundancies and the termination but we must now look forward and ensure that hospitality of casual contracts. Lay-offs have resulted in the sharpest recovers and thrives as we emerge from the pandemic. impact on jobs of any sector, with as many as 650,000 The wedding sector in particular has faced—and still job losses this year. faces—unique challenges, and the end remains some Pubs and clubs very dear to my heart in my constituency way off. While weddings in non-exceptional circumstances spent many thousands of pounds at the beginning of will be allowed from Monday, only six people including the pandemic to be covid-compliant. I found myself the couple will be able to attend, and outdoor receptions agreeing with many Members, including the hon. Member with more than 30 guests and any indoor receptions for Poole (Sir Robert Syms). These establishments were must wait until at least 21 June. Even sporting events inspected and monitored. They addressed any covid and concerts could get a head-start on them. safety shortcomings immediately, because any that failed Couples have understandably been reluctant to confirm to comply were closed by the local authority. I want to wedding dates, fearing that the 21 June date might get place on record my thanks to those businesses, which delayed, leading some wedding businesses to say that could have traded and employed people, for doing all there is no light at the end of the tunnel. All this is they could to cut covid transmissions. causing a backlog of weddings, and a demand that will In my view, those businesses have been let down by need to be accommodated. For wedding venues it is not the Government. Three national lockdowns have crippled just about getting back to normal; it is about going the hospitality industry. Economic output in the sector faster than normal, so that couples do not have to wait was down 90% in April 2020, compared to February the years for their big day. previous year. I support the proposed extension of the One possible solution I would like to put forward is VAT reduction beyond September to allow the sector to for more early weekday weddings. Weknow that Mondays recover. When businesses are fighting for survival, they to Wednesdays are traditionally less popular days to tie need a Government who are going to support them. the knot, so, just like with the Eat Out to Help Out I want to say a few words about the small brewing scheme, could the Government consider support to industry, which is under threat from Government policy. encourage early weekday weddings? In my constituency, the Castle Eden brewery is not only It is vital that we help this unique part of the hospitality suffering from lack of demand and a lack of grant support, sector recover from the pandemic because it serves such its business has been put at risk by the Government’s an important social purpose. Weddings bring together proposed changes to small brewers relief. There is a families and communities that for the last year have simple solution: retain the relief at 5,000 hectolitres and only been able to see each other and gather online; and stop the proposed cut to 2,100 hectolitres. It would be a the marriages they celebrate are the foundation of our scandal if small brewers survive covid only to be put out families and our society. That is also why it is so of business by ill-conceived reforms to the small brewers important that when weddings come back, they come relief. back for good. Large gatherings would be the first casualties of any resurgence in covid cases, so it is vital 5.52 pm for wedding venues that we get this virus firmly under Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con): I thank my hon. control. But I am confident that we will do so, and secure Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) the future of our wedding venues. Wemust give hospitality and the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth and the wedding sector the support and certainty that it (Ruth Cadbury) for securing this debate. needs to restart and thrive. The hospitality industry is the blood in the veins of Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Wenow our communities. It delivers so many things that make go to Grahame Morris. life worth living. It supplies the enjoyable days and occasions that, even before the pandemic, we all look Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab) rose— back on fondly. Hospitality is not just about the special occasions; it is about the occasions we all treasure so Madam Deputy Speaker: Oh, I am sorry. We don’t go much when they are taken away. It is the opportunity to anywhere. Grahame Morris is here. have a coffee and a cake with an old friend. It is the opportunity to have a couple of pints while the world is 5.49 pm put right. And yes, of course, it is about the weddings Grahame Morris: There is no need to apologise, Madam and the big birthdays. All have been stripped from us Deputy Speaker. Castle Eden Wood has come to the over the last year and it is imperative for the wellbeing Commons. Thank you very much for calling me in this of all that they are able to return as restrictions lift. debate. I would also like to congratulate the hon. Member The hospitality industry has been impacted massively for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) and my hon. Friend by the lack of celebrations, whether we are looking at a the Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) five-star hotel such as Rockliffe Hall, somewhere associated on promoting and securing the debate. to a country park such as Hardwick Hall, or a pub with 1007 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1008 rooms such as the County in Aycliffe village. It is also That is why the Chancellor’s limited support for pubs such as the Royal Telegraph, also in Aycliffe hospitality in the Budget was so disappointing. Yes, village, and small brewers such as Alan Hogg at the there were good elements to it, but the hospitality sector Surtees Arms in Ferryhill. It is about the food chains is facing incredible uncertainty, and the Budget fell well that enable them to operate and the multitude of staff short of the recovery plan needed for the years ahead. who spend their working hours giving exceptional service. Hospitality needs sector-specific support from Government The actions taken to frustrate the pandemic could that protects businesses and workers, such as an extended not have been more focused on this industry if they job retention scheme that ensures that no worker falls tried. The Chancellor did his best to afford some respite below the minimum wage, and is contingent upon greater to parts of the industry in the summer and his initiatives rights for workers. That means guaranteed hours, utilising in the Budget have been helpful, but there is so much job sharing, and an end to fire-and-rehire tactics. more of this industry’s core that is on life support and at On top of that, over the last year businesses have risk of being terminated. Please can we consider urgently taken on massive amounts of debt in order to stay removing the ban on takeaway sales of alcohol from afloat, and many now face a cashflow crisis.The Chancellor licensed premises in the lockdown? So many of our desperately needs to listen to Labour and introduce communities rely on the local pub for so much more measures that will alleviate that pressure. Finally, the than being somewhere to go for a pint. They are a Government must recognise that 5,500 pubs and bars in critical part of the social infrastructure we need. They the UK have closed since 2010. I urge the Government were already under threat before covid-19, but now the to help to address that by creating a hospitality commission risk is critical. The all-party parliamentary group for that can identify the needs of the sector while helping to “left behind” neighbourhoods, which I co-chair, has move it away from its reliance on low-paid, insecure clearly seen how vital social infrastructure is for communities work. to thrive. It has therefore promoted the concept of an The hospitality sector provides many jobs to Durham, automatic assumption of “asset of community value”status and attracts students to our university and tourists from for the last pub in the village, which would recognise the across the world. I know that my respect for hospitality centrality of pubs and clubs to village life. workers and businesses is shared by Members from all I would encourage another look at extending the parties, so surely there is the collective will in this House 5% VAT rate to alcohol sales on licensed premises, as to deliver a recovery strategy that secures the future of well as an extension in time. Also, the variable duty businesses while protecting the jobs and rights of workers. proposals led by my hon. Friend the Member for North These businesses are the lifeblood of our communities. West Durham (Mr Holden) have attracted 79 Conservative We simply have to ensure that they are still here not just colleagues in a letter already. I also ask for consideration come June, but next year and the year after that. of sectoral support for the hospitality industry, with an extension of both furlough and business support grants 5.59 pm beyond September, as many will have only just opened Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) their doors in June. (Lab): It has been an incredibly tough year for hospitality. I noticed today that Durham County Council has Many businesses have faced the biggest economic decline announced further support from discretionary funds of all the sectors in the economy, and workers have for hospitality businesses and the associated supply faced problems with being furloughed, reduced hours chains. I welcome that, and hope that we can all grasp and job losses. I give credit to Hull City Council for the the opportunities available to support those businesses, support that it has given to more than 5,000 local while co-ordinating the efforts in supporting our high businesses, despite missing out on the Government’s high streets. Whether it is pubs, hotels, coach companies, street fund, which only goes to prove that if people want brewers, wedding suppliers or the supply chains that sit help and support, it is Labour they need to turn to. behind them, their survival is critical to us feeling the The situation was tough before the pandemic, but it benefit of lockdown lifting, and giving our communities has got worse, although we have had some cultural back the precious times they have missed. We need to go renewal and some good news.For example,the development above and beyond for them to give them the opportunity of Humber St, the award-winning Deep and the maritime to give us our good times back. history project are all bringing people into the city centre to spend their money, and I do hope that this 5.55 pm desire to staycation will continue that. I am particularly Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab) [V]: The delighted that we have been able to save the Polar Bear plan for a pint in our local or a meal in our favourite and the Welly, which are two fantastic live music venues restaurant has been one of the simple ideas that has in my constituency. kept many of us going through the pandemic. These The move online has only been accelerated by the businesses are at the heart of many communities, acting pandemic, and there are a number of actions I would as social hubs and boosting the local economy. Esh really like the Government to take. It is simply not fair Winning needs the Stag’s Head; Brandon, the Brawn’s that five US tech firms have not paid more than £1.3 billion Den; and what Durham student experience is compete in lost corporation tax, while at the same time our high without a pre-lecture trip to Flat White? We cannot streets are still desperately waiting for the business rates forget that when this cruel Government refused to feed revaluation that the Government promised such a long our most vulnerable children during the school holidays, time ago. If we want to give businesses the chance to it was businesses such as the Drunken Duck in Durham recover and get footfall back in the city centre and that stepped up. In May, it was the Capital restaurant people spending money, we need to look at extending that delivered more than 100 free meals to our frontline support past June, because they simply will not be NHS staff at University Hospital of North Durham. immediately viable. 1009 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1010

[Emma Hardy] For many months now, I have been advocating the use of testing to allow occasions such as weddings, We need to address the cash crisis. The rates and the rugby matches, conferences and other large events to rent make up over 30% of hospitality’s expenses, and restart. I would like to reiterate this point to the Minister, 53% of accommodation and food businesses have said because the events industry overlaps considerably with that they have less than three months of cash reserves hospitality services and provides a vital source of income left, which is incredibly concerning. I hope that the for many hospitality businesses in my constituency. I Government will put aside party politics and look seriously would therefore welcome an update from my hon. Friend at Labour’s plan for debt recovery, and support businesses on the Government’s plans to achieve this. having to pay back the coronavirus business interruption There is a famous saying in the hospitality sector, loans or the bounce back loans only when they actually which is that customers may forget what you have said start to make money and can afford to do so. Again, but they will never forget how you made them feel. Well, they should look at our plans for a high street recovery hospitality sector—get ready! We have forgotten what fund, and reuse the money the supermarkets have not you said a year ago, but I think everyone in this Chamber needed, since they have made so much during the pandemic, remembers how they felt the last time they were able to and give it to the small businesses that need the support. do the simplest thing, like meet a friend for lunch or go Of course, I always think that more can be done to for a drink. The whole country is waiting for that great support our pubs, because we will all need a drink after British hospitality to start up again: welcome back! this pandemic. I would also like to ask the Minister to look at the 6.5 pm pledges from Unite the union, but because of time, I will instead write to the Minister and outline those, but Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]: It is clear they include allowing workers to keep all their tips and from contributions from Members across the House action against sexual harassment at work. I want to that the hospitality industry across the country really is conclude by saying to the Minister, quite simply: he on its knees. In my own constituency of Pontypridd, we needs to put money back in people’s pockets; if they do have some fantastic hospitality venues and businesses. not have money, none of this counts because they will There is not time to name them all, but I want to give a not be able to spend anything. shout-out to a few, including Alfred’s and the Bunch of Grapes in Pontypridd, the Windsor in Pontyclun, the 6.2 pm Rhondda Bowl in Tonyrefail, the brilliant and delicious Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con): I first congratulate Glamorgan Brewery in Llantrisant and, of course, our my good friend, my hon. Friend the Member for North Savoy Theatre and the Muni Arts Centre. Those are just Devon (Selaine Saxby), on securing such a vital debate. a few examples of the venues and business that have I declare an interest in that my husband works for a been hugely impacted over the last year and, sadly, a logistics company and deals directly with the hospitality year on, we can all see for ourselves that our hotels, sector in his role. pubs, restaurants and entertainment venues across the Our hospitality industry is incredibly important to country are struggling. local communities both socially and economically. Some Only yesterday I had the privilege of visiting the 3,000 people in Loughborough constituency alone are Miskin Manor Hotel, a spectacular wedding venue in employed in the hospitality sector, offering everything my constituency, to plant a tree as part of its memorial from the ability to rent a table cloth for an event to to the lives lost at the hands of coronavirus. The team at arranging worldwide conferences for major businesses, Miskin Manor have, like so many others, relied on the as well as providing a scrumptious meal and a pint of furlough scheme, and they have some fantastic plans to local real ale by an open fire or indeed at a Michelin-starred kick-start trade again when lockdown restrictions ease restaurant, or a piece of cake and a coffee and a chance here in Wales, yet for so many others, the lack of future to meet friends in town. I would like to take this planningfromthisGovernment’sfinancialsupportpackages opportunity to thank every single hospitality business has caused long-term damage that may be impossible for all they have done over the past year to adapt to very for businesses to recover from. difficult circumstances and particularly to protect jobs. TheChancellorhasrepeatedlytakenastop-startapproach I would also like to thank the Government for the to economic support, which has ultimately failed the part they have played in this, having rolled out the hospitality industry.These last-minute actions have harmed financial support measures. In addition, I am pleased the high street and caused businesses and workers distress that the Government recently published their road map at their inability to plan for the future. It cannot and for reopening, which I know has provided much-needed should not be this way. The sad reality is that it could certainty to many businesses and individuals in my have been different if the UK Government had simply constituency, as well as the emphasis the Prime Minister made a more serious response to coronavirus early on, has placed on not reimposing restrictions once they and while hindsight is of course a wonderful thing, I have been lifted. cannot help but be extremely frustrated at the sheer lack Working with Loughborough businesses over the last of planning. It is clear that the support schemes that year, the most frequently asked question as we come out were put in place for an expected three-month crisis are of these restrictions is, “Please can we come out with now no longer fit for purpose 12 to 18 months on. certainty?” I believe we are on our way to achieving this. The Government claim that they are committed to What we all must realise is that we are the people who levelling up and that they want to boost the economy can make that succeed or fail. We must as a whole and protect jobs. Well, it is going to take a lot more than nation stick to the rules on social distancing, wearing soundbites from the Prime Minister and the Chancellor masks and washing our hands,even when we are vaccinated, to fix the situation in Pontypridd, let alone in the rest of so that we can help control the virus. the country. The reality is that they have utterly failed a 1011 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1012 generation, and I fear that our young people will sadly We have been through a long winter, locked down by be paying the price of the Government’s mistakes for the Welsh Government’s firebreak over the half-term manyyears to come.There needs to be an acknowledgement break in October, and again over the Christmas break. that businesses in the hospitality sector, which clearly Many restaurants developed a new sideline in takeaway employ young people, have an extremely difficult few meals. I was delighted to run a competition last month months ahead as the economy reopens. to find our island’s favourite takeaway.I received hundreds In the Budget, the Government had the opportunity of entries, with many people applauding the contribution to bring forward a plan to help businesses through the that our restaurants and takeaways have made to our crisis and beyond, including debt restructuring and a emotional wellbeing, if not always to our waistlines. jobs guarantee for the young, yet once again we saw The winner, the Pilot House Cafe in Penmon, is a great little in the way of long-term future planning. If the example of a business that has adapted to its circumstances Government are serious about businesses, they must over the past few months and made the most of what include a commitment to supporting our high streets opportunity it could. too. In Wales, I am proud that the Welsh Labour As vaccinations roll out, those businesses that have Government have understood the importance of supporting weathered the storm across the island, such as the businesses big and small, right from the beginning. It is Valley Hotel, the White Eagle, the Oyster Catcher and vital that the UK Government understand that the Dylan’s, are earnestly hoping that we can reopen soon, devastation caused by the pandemic is not going anywhere, not only for our tourists but for our locals, who, like and that businesses in the hospitality sector will need everyone else across the UK, are just desperate to enjoy ongoing support, likely for many years to come. I urge a meal out and a drink with their friends. the Minister to take these cries for help seriously and to work with colleagues across Government Departments to ensure that forward planning for future generations is 6.10 pm consistently covered in the Government’songoing response Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): to the pandemic. The last year has been difficult for us all, with every 6.8 pm aspect of our lives and livelihoods impacted by covid, but the hospitality sector has perhaps faced more challenges Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): I thank my hon. than most. Apart from a few months over the summer, Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) many pubs and clubs have not been able to trade at all, for securing this important debate. Hospitality is the and when they have been able to open, they have faced cornerstone of the economy in my constituency. Before such onerous trading conditions that, if they have chosen 2020, the island hosted over 1 million overnight visitors to trade, they have often done so at a loss. each year and tourism brought in over £300 million in revenue. Almost a fifth of the island’s population are I understand, of course, why restrictions were needed directly employed in the tourist industry and 12% of on how people interacted in pubs, but the way we ended our VAT-registered businesses are in the hospitality up, in the space of a few weeks last September, lurching trade. Of course, this does not take account of smaller from debates about whether Scotch eggs were substantial businesses, or of the local supply chain that is dependent meals to whether 10 pm closures did more harm than on those businesses. So when I say that covid-19 is good shows just how confused the response was, with having a significant impact on the economy of Ynys Môn, rapid, almost weekly changes to how pubs were meant it is no exaggeration. to operate. That constant chopping and changing only added to the financial burden that pubs face. What The first national lockdown in March last year came about the farce of Test and Trace check-ins for hospitality just at the start of our tourist season. Suddenly plans venues? They were used 100 million times but resulted were thrown in the air, with bookings cancelled and in only 284 alerts. The Government should make sure refunds demanded. My inbox exploded with messages that these things work properly if they are going to insist from deeply troubled small business owners. Many people on them in the future. on the island had sunk everything they had into businesses that now seem about to crumble into nothing. When the When I look at some of the pubs in my locality that Chancellor brought out his first phase of support, it have not opened their doors for a year, I worry that they was a welcome beacon of hope for many. Of course, it may never do so again. We know that in the last decade, was not a cure-all for everyone. It did not answer all the a pub has closed once every 14 hours. My concern is problems, but it gave hope that someone had a grip on that that shocking figure may end up being dwarfed what was needed to help. Through initiatives such as once we see the true impact of covid on the sector. We furlough, 100% business rates relief, small business grants must look at the sector as a whole—not just the bit we and the VAT cut for hospitality, businesses such as see as customers, but those in the supply chain. The Coffee Cups and Catch 22 were given the support that brewers, the cleaners, those who supply the vending they so desperately needed. machines and the pool tables—all those businesses rely When the summer came and those businesses could on a thriving hospitality sector to survive, and the reopen, the Chancellor stepped in again, with eat out to importance of their making it beyond the next three months help out. Ynys Môn saw 104 restaurants take part, with must be clear. 74,000 meals claimed for, totalling nearly half a million It is welcome that we now have a clear road map for pounds. Our hospitality businesses did us proud over the opening of venues, which is necessary to give sectors the summer. Despite early concerns that tourism might confidence. The last thing they need—the last thing we lead to increased covid rates, our food and accommodation all need—is the stop-start, boom-and-bust approach businesses complied with social distancing, personal that we saw last year, when where a business was based protective equipment and sanitising measures, and our and what it provided dictated whether it could open at island’s figures stayed low. all, almost on a day-to-day basis. 1013 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1014

[Justin Madders] Hotels have been particularly hard hit. Many of them cannot comply as easily with the regulation as self-catering Even when pubs reopen on 12 April, we need to and Airbnb accommodation. Many restaurants and recognise that that does not mean all pubs will be able pubs have not been able to benefit from carrying on to reopen. Those that do not have outdoor facilities will their takeaway trade, and historic venues have ongoing still be shut, and, frankly, we cannot be confident that maintenance costs for which they need to raise money. the great British summer will come early enough to Although we will benefit from domestic tourism this encourage people to drink outside in April. That gap year because of travel restraints, we are not going to has to be bridged. We must also remember that, when benefit properly from unvaccinated Europeans coming we hopefully get to full reopening in May, the road map in, which is a very lucrative part of the tourism industry. requires table service only to be in operation. With We need to extend some of the generous measures. social distancing, that means there will be, by definition, We need the 5% VAT rate to become permanent. The a limit on the number of customers a pub can have, and 20% rate does not sit easily with continental hospitality that limit is likely to be well below the capacity it used to industries. We need to look again at the rate multiplier enjoy. Again, that is a gap that has to be bridged, and on business rates—the Chancellor needs to look at many Members have already spoken today about how adjusting it downwards. Home drinking has brought in we can do that. an £800 million windfall. The Chancellor has the leeway We all hope that this lockdown is the last, but I hope and capacity to be even more generous to the hospitality it has been made clear to the Minister today that, even if industry through this really important period. I hope he that is the case, there will still be challenges to the sector is listening—cheers to that, Madam Deputy Speaker. for many months to come. I will do my best personally to support the hospitality sector—within reasonable 6.16 pm limits, of course—but I cannot do it on my own, and the sector cannot do it without Government support Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP) [V]: I agree until the pandemic is completely over. with what many speakers have said about hospitality. While this is a debate about hospitality, I see it very 6.13 pm much in my constituency as a very interconnected Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): ecosystem, because without live events and shopping in There is no need to dream of going to Ayrshire, Madam the city centre, people are not going to come in to spend Deputy Speaker; you know you are welcome to prop up money in the hospitality sector. There is no pre-theatre the outside bars and pubs of Worthing and Shoreham meal if people are not going to the theatre, and there at any time, as I know you like doing so much. will not be the drinks afterwards and the taxi home. Without people coming in for weddings, for example, It is very difficult in three minutes to comment on there are fewer hotel stays and, without the huge conferences what, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon and events that Glasgow hosts, the hotel sector is struggling (Selaine Saxby) said—I congratulate her on securing this massively. debate—is such a big industry. It is a big industry, a very large revenue earner,a large taxpayer and a large employer. The wedding sector is huge, particularly in the Asian The fact that, in 2020, total revenues fell by some 54%, community in Glasgow. If people have not had the with potentially 600,000 jobs at stake, is very worrying. pleasure of attending an Asian wedding in Glasgow, Undoubtedly, the many generous measures from the perhaps they have watched the show, “Getting Hitched Chancellor have been a lifeline for many businesses and Asian Style”, on BBC Scotland, and I would certainly jobs, enabling them to survive the lockdown and hopefully recommend it. These are incredibly glamorous and to open up shortly. However, coastal communities such expensive events to put on, and I really feel for Saffron as mine are disproportionately reliant on the hospitality Events and others like it that have tried to diversify in industry, and those businesses disproportionately employ lockdown but which are not able to put on the tremendously young people, so there is a double whammy for already elaborate weddings that they usually would. I very deprived coastal community areas and the young people much hope that they will be back doing what they love in them. very soon. Of course, this is not just about hospitality venues. It has been incredibly difficult for many of the venues There has been a significant impact on the suppliers in the city centre that rely on the passing trade of the and events service industries, as many hon. Members SSE Hydro. All the restaurants in Finnieston had been have said. I am talking about everything from the booming since the Hydro came to town, and without people making the pies and sausage rolls for football that, it is much more of a struggle, even when the sector matches, who do not have a premises that they may have does diversify. Without venues operating such as the been able to get various grants for, to the wedding Barrowlands, King Tut’s, the King’s theatre, the Pavilion dressmakers—why on earth are we still limiting wedding theatre, and all the other theatres and venues within the receptions outside to 15 people, which is ridiculous?—to city centre, the other things that we enjoy very much in DJs, lighting suppliers and the kennels and catteries our city become much more difficult to sustain. who do not have any customers because they are all I urge the Government very much to take on board stuck at home with their pets. It is vital that we do not the errors that they made over the past year. They delay any further. The industry needs certainty. The locked down too late and unlocked too early. The stop-start closures that many people have mentioned furlough dithering towards the autumn last year cost have been highly damaging. We have heard that 60% of jobs in the sector—jobs that young people relied on and pubs may not reopen on 12 April, and it is really now cannot get. I ask the Government to look very frustrating that pubs cannot not be open, even outside, carefully at extending the 5% VAT reduction for the rest even with all the social-distancing measures that they of the year at the very least, as people have not benefited have put in place, for the Easter bank holiday weekend. from that, because nobody has been able to go out to 1015 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1016 restaurants, or to spend money at events, which also I believe that the combination of tax cuts, cash grants, had the 5% cut, or on their hair, beauty and at salons, and the relaxation of planning laws over the next 12 months which would also like to see that 5% cut extended to can help the many tourism and hospitality businesses in their sector,which again brings many people into Glasgow Tiverton and Honiton to survive and thrive, and I thank city centre. We are looking at a sector that has become the Minister for her continued support. heavily indebted and dependent on the furlough scheme, and when that goes, the Government will have to think 6.23 pm carefully about how it is supported for the rest of the Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): year. It has been the most difficult year for a sector that The hospitality industry is of enormous importance to demands so much of our public joy. I feel very sorry for the Northern Isles, and an integral part of our well- everybody within that sector, but it is an ecosystem and developed visitor economy. Hospitality, I like to think, the Government need to consider it as such. No business is something that comes very naturally to us in Orkney stands alone. and Shetland. Indeed, we were described by one visitor 6.19 pm to me a couple of years ago as being “dangerously hospitable”—I know exactly what he meant. Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I congratulate my It is worth reflecting that this time last year, those in hon. Friend, and neighbour, the Member for North the visitor economy and hospitality industry were saying Devon (Selaine Saxby), on securing it. She is right to that local businesses feared that this situation would point out the importance of the hospitality industry to last for three winters. We would come out of six quiet our economy in the west country. Before the pandemic, months, and instead of the six good months that would the hospitality and tourism sector was worth more than normally be expected, businesses would be quiet, then £2.5 billion to our local economy each year.That supported there would again be the six quiet months of the winter. more than 3,000 businesses in Devon, and created more That is where we now are, except that this time last year, than £200 million of spending in the industry’s supply we believed, and indeed hoped, that we would be coming chains. Many of our hospitality businesses have suffered out of this. It is now clear that we are in fact some over the past year, and I am grateful for the support that distance from being out of it. It is clear from the limited the Government, both local and national, have provided. opening that we had in summer last year, that when it arrives, recovery will not come at a uniform pace. For As Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs self-catering businesses in Orkney and Shetland, business Committee, I have a particularly strong interest in our returned easily, but for the bed and breakfasts and food industry. During the first lockdown, we launched hotels, it was a much more difficult path back to recovery. an inquiry into covid-19 and the food supply, as pubs, bars and restaurants shut down, and the companies and It is also the case that in communities such as mine—I workers who supplied them found their revenue sources am sure this is true of rural communities across the removed overnight. Farmers and food suppliers tried whole country—the hospitality industry and the visitor to move food originally destined for hospitality to economy are integrated with just about every other supermarkets, but the adjustment was difficult. British sector in our local economies. The craft industries, such dairy farmers, for example, lost more than £41 million. as knitwear and jewellery manufacturers, depend on it. The Government stepped in to help the dairy sector We have also seen the depression of hospitality across with a hardship fund, but many other sectors supplying the whole of the United Kingdom; in Orkney and hospitality businesses have continued to struggle. Shetland, that means that the premium producers of beef and lamb and the fish and shellfish producers are It is clear from our inquiries over the last year that it also suffering, because the restaurants are not open to is not only cafés and pubs that need extra support, but take their products. also the small and medium-sized food-and-drink businesses that supply them. The Government’ssupport for hospitality It feels like we have all had a year on a life support will be only partially successful if supply chains collapse, machine, as far as the visitor economy is concerned. and the same is true of the wedding industry. Large Even as we emerge from that, it is still going to be venues such as Deer Park country house in my constituency necessary for some of the intensive care to continue. For have received a good amount of support from retail, the Government, that means that we cannot have immediate leisure and hospitality grants, as well as the new restart withdrawal of things like the furlough scheme: they will grants. However, it has been more difficult to target have to look at a tapering-off of that support, and it support for the florists, cakemakers, dressmakers, will have to be looked at sector by sector, and possibly photographers, caterers, and musicians, who rely on the even region by region. As others have said, the reduction weddings and events industries for their businesses. The of value-added tax for the hospitality industry has been Government have generally gone for a “catch-all”approach, of massive importance, and indeed there is a strong which I understand, instead of sector-specific support, case, which many of us have made over many years, for but that has left some hard cases and a lot of confusion it to become permanent. I do hope that that is something for some sectors. that the Treasury will now consider. There is a lot of financial support out there, and we must ensure that our constituents know about the support 6.26 pm schemes and how to access them. That is why this Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): I congratulate my debate is especially useful, as we tackle the final weeks hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine of lockdown and look to reopen the economy. I hope Saxby) and the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth that the Minister will continue to engage regularly with (Ruth Cadbury) on securing this debate. I associate representatives from the hospitality sector, to ensure myself with the remarks made a few moments ago by that businesses are aware of what specific support is my hon. Friends the Members for Tiverton and Honiton available to them now and as they look to reopen. (Neil Parish) and for East Worthing and Shoreham 1017 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1018

[Greg Smith] All being well, this will be the last time that I speak on hospitality before the businesses in North East Fife (Tim Loughton) regarding the wedding sector and the can open their doors again on 26 April. I, for one, wider events sector, but I want to focus my three minutes cannot wait to finish our door-knocking sessions with on pubs and small breweries, particularly in rural an ice cream from Jannetta’s in St Andrews. But it will communities. A recent survey by the Countryside Alliance not all be plain sailing from that point. Social distancing revealed the harsh reality that our pub trade faces. Only requirements, limits on households and table service 34% of publicans who replied to that survey said they will be a reality for all these businesses. Even though in can hold out if they are shut until the summer, and we Scotland indoor hospitality is opening on the same day know from British Beer and Pub Association research as outdoor, no alcohol can be sold indoors initially, so that 60% of all pubs in the UK will remain closed after there is a disadvantage for premises that do not have 12 April, even under the current road map. Losing pubs outdoor seating. would be devastating and irreversible. The obstacles go further. Mainland Scotland moves I welcome the Chancellor’s continued support in the back into level 3, but that will mean travel restrictions form of additional grants, the extension to the job preventing anyone from entering or leaving a local retention scheme, the 5% VAT rate, and the business authority area. When Fife was in level 3 last year, that rates holiday. However, there are some gaps that need to presented a real difficulty for many hospitality businesses be addressed. I am backing the Countryside Alliance’s in the area. Indeed, I have previously spoken in this #UnlockInn campaign, particularly calling for all pubs place about the Peat Inn, which is a Michelin-starred to be permitted to serve takeaway alcohol right away. restaurant that attracts most of its business from outwith The current situation is perverse, given that supermarkets Fife—tourists who come to stay in bed-and-breakfasts can continue to sell alcohol. Likewise, indoors trade and hotels. Under level 3, it was legally able to open, but should be permitted from 12 April. Ever since my business was so limited that it was forced to shut its election, I have been delighted to support the Long Live doors again. The Scottish Government’s approach thus the Local campaign, calling for a beer tax cut to support far has been that businesses that can legally open are our local pubs. I hope the ongoing alcohol duty review not eligible for the grant support available to level 4 will conclude that a cut to beer duty will support our areas, and that has not changed in intervening months brewers and pubs and level the playing field. Likewise, since last autumn as we now enter the spring. It was a the proposal from the Campaign for Real Ale for a real difficulty then and it is still a real difficulty now. draught-beer duty cut would further help level that It is hard to justify that lack of support: first, because playing field: modelling shows that just a 5% duty cut they are Government restrictions that are hampering for draught beer could create 1,000 jobs in the on-trade. business by preventing travel into the kingdom of Fife—as Coupled with that is the need to reverse the proposed many others have said, the likelihood of seeing overseas changes to small breweries relief. Some 2 million fewer visitors this year is fast diminishing—and secondly, pints of craft beer were brewed by small breweries last because both the UK and Scottish taxpayers have now year, and two small breweries a week closed their doors provided so much support to businesses around the for good last summer. There are four fantastic independent country through the furlough scheme, rates relief, and breweries in my constituency: Chiltern, XT, Vale and the small grants administered by local authorities. The Blackpit. These businesses are set to be hard pressed by whole point of that support has been to get those the proposed changes. A small brewery may have to pay businesses through what has been, in effect, three winter up to £44,000 extra tax per year, putting jobs and their seasons in a row, as my right hon. Friend the Member recovery at risk, and those changes will be introduced for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) said. Now, next January, giving businesses hit by covid little time to thanks to the public’s hard work in following lockdown prepare. What is the point in helping the hospitality restrictions, we are in a position where we can begin to trade if there are not vibrant, diverse and local beers on recover, so let us not take the support away too early, or offer when the economy reopens? Finally, it is absolutely all the efforts over the last year will have been wasted. crucial that the dates in the road map are kept to, or Now is the time to enable our businesses not just to brought forward. That way, we can give our hospitality survive but to thrive. Let us put recovery first. sector the best chance of recovery, and get the pints 6.32 pm pouring once more. Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab): I have 6.29 pm now spoken in a number of debates as chair of the Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD): For all-party parliamentary group on pubs to highlight the about half of the past 12 months, the brilliant hospitality existential threat to the trade from the events of the past industry in North East Fife has been forced to close its year and to ask for clearer support for the sector. It is a doors. Obviously that has had a profound impact, from shame that here I am again, repeating calls that have so the Ship Inn in Elie, to Kingsbarns Distillery, to our far gone unanswered. For those of us who do not want many fantastic and historic golf clubs, to wedding to hear the last orders’ bell tolling for pubs in every venues such as Kinkell Byre, to street food like the single one of our constituencies, the Government must Cheesy Toast Shack in St Andrews. There has been recognise what more needs to be done to sustain them support, for which I am grateful, but I have spent much until custom can properly return. of the past year arguing for the people and businesses I welcomed the grants made available, including in who either missed out on support or for whom the the Budget, but many in the sector have been saying support received has been inadequate. My casework that they are insufficient. The British Institute of Innkeeping team have done a brilliant job in navigating through the stated that often complex support schemes of both the UK and “these grants will not even cover the furlough contributions that Scottish Governments. will be needed to safeguard their teams until May, let alone June.” 1019 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1020

The business rates holiday and VAT cut extension were For my own part, I cannot wait to get back into also welcome, but do not make up for the losses that BrewDog and down to the Cove Bay Hotel for some have accrued and will continue to accrue until pubs are food or, indeed, to North East Fife, because I have a able to open fully. Wet-led pubs, in particular, will couple of vouchers for some places in St Andrews that I continue to suffer. I am glad that they no longer need to am desperate to use. I was given them at Christmas in comply with the farce of the Scotch egg test—may I say the expectation that I would be there before now. It was that its removal shows that it was a hollow necessity all nice to hear the remarks from the hon. Member for along?—but they will not benefit from the VAT cut, North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) about what her which is restricted to food, soft drinks and accommodation. constituency has to offer; it is a wonderful part of the These problems are made even worse for pubs without world. beer gardens or outside space, which will still be on severely restricted capacity until at least 21 June. We are all keen to get back out there and enjoy ourselves, because having that social contact with people Alongside our pubs, the brewers that supply them in environments that we all love and enjoy is the very need support too. About 80% of the beer made by small essence of our being. That is to come, but in the producers, including the Coach House Brewing Company meantime, we need to reflect on the challenges that will and Twisted Wheel Brew Company in Warrington North, still be there for the hospitality sector. When things and the 4Ts Brewery just over the Mersey from us, is open up, it will not simply be a case of “back to sold in pubs. The devastating loss of trade, with pubs normal”. First, those in the sector will have to deal with closed, 200 million fewer pints of craft beer brewed in the fact that restrictions are still in place, but they will comparison with 2019, and 6 million pints of beer also have to deal with the fact that consumer confidence poured down the drain this year, represents 10 years of is shattered. People are going to be a little bit anxious lost growth for the sector. They desperately need about doing what they previously did. It is incumbent compensation and support to recover. on the UK Government to take cognisance of that fact, Pubs and their suppliers deserve the support they in particular in relation to VAT. The 5% cap for the need until they can reopen properly—a day to which we hospitality sector has been a good move, but we need to are all looking forward very much. I know that I am not see that extended until the end of the year, at least to alone in longing for the days of a pint or five in my local allow businesses the certainty that they need. with friends and making new friends in the smoking area. As our freedom to enjoy those days comes back, That certainty is important. It was important last we need to ensure that the sector is there in which to be autumn, when businesses in Scotland tried to close due able to enjoy that freedom. to public health reasons, and we asked the UK Government repeatedly to extend the furlough scheme. They delayed and delayed, and only at the last minute they decided to 6.35 pm extend it on the basis of the situation in south-east Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP): I commend England. Wecannot allow that to happen again. Scotland the hon. Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) on does not have the powers that it should have in that securing this important and topical debate. As my hon. regard. It is of much frustration to me, as I am sure the Friend the Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) Minister will be aware, that we cannot borrow to try to said, a vibrant city centre is very much the sum of its fill the gap caused by the shortfalls in the UK Government’s parts: its retail, its leisure and its hospitality. On that schemes. point, I would like briefly to reflect on the terrible news from Aberdeen today that our local John Lewis store is Of course, where we can take action, we have taken to close. Some 265 good jobs are currently up in the air, action. Scotland’s Finance Secretary delivered our Budget and my heart goes out to each and every individual who recently, and we went further than the UK Government is potentially impacted. I know that, across the political on rates relief. I have heard today the frustration of divide in Aberdeen, we will all unite to try to convince several Members about business rates and the fact that the organisation to take a different path—one that in England there will be a taper of the support over the retains such a vital department store in the city of year. That is not the case in Scotland, where there will Aberdeen. It is probably apt to reflect on the importance be 100% rates relief throughout the coming financial of such a story in the wider context of a city centre, year. We are trying to provide the certainty that we can because we all know that when we go to city centres to to hospitality businesses; it is time for the UK Government enjoy what is on offer, it is not just for the pubs, the to step up and do likewise. food, the cinemas or the parks; it is also for the shops. I am conscious of the time, so I will finish where I As I say, it is a collective, and we all need to be very started, with some local narrative. Towards the end of mindful of that. last year, there was a lot of difficultly in the hospitality As we have heard from numerous Members, the last situation in Aberdeen and some challenges with adherence year has been an extremely challenging time for those in to social distancing and the like, but the hospitality the hospitality sector. They have had to face myriad sector in our city got together and created Aberdeen changing circumstances, be that in relation to social Hospitality Together. That re-instilled the confidence distancing, opening times or what they can and cannot that we all needed. Dutifully led by Stuart McPhee from serve. I have a great deal of sympathy for them in that Siberia Bar & Hotel, people across a whole host of regard. They have had to put up with an incredibly venues managed to put in place a format that people difficult set of circumstances, and I know that they have could believe in and trust. As we move out of lockdown diligently tried to adhere to everything that has been in the coming weeks and months, that trust is going to put in front of them. I sincerely hope that in the not- be so vital. I look forward, as indeed does everyone else too-distant future, we can all get back to enjoying in the Chamber, to getting back into a pub and drinking ourselves in establishments across Scotland and the UK. far too many beers. 1021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1022

6.40 pm abandoned. The additional restrictions grant has been too little, too late, caught up in red tape with complicated Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op): I guidance creating a postcode lottery. thank my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) and the hon. Member for Debt is another issue that is pushing businesses to the North Devon (Selaine Saxby) for securing this debate. edge and threatening the recovery. Companies have taken the loans, deferrals and moratoriums, but as trade In the interests of fairness, I wish to put on record the slowly restarts and the debts are called in, businesses very vibrant, trendy fashionable nature of Manchester will go bust. This is an issue for the larger chains as well. city centre, with its wide hospitality,cultural and night-time There are also many measures that Ministers have got economy. I think I have in my constituency the most wrong, making a bad situation worse.Business interruption pubs and bars out of any Member in this House. I say insurance claims have been the bane of many businesses’ that just in the interests of fairness, of course. I also put lives, with insurers failing to pay out—if a pandemic is on record my admiration for and pride in our hospitality not “business interruption”, what is? The news today sector and supply chain and the difficult role that it has that the Government are not prepared to help with played in keeping us all safe this year. insuring large events and festivals is a hammer blow to The Government have a moral duty, as well as an this summer’s recovery. The Chancellor’s job retention economic imperative, to ensure that as many shuttered bonus, which businesses were relying on, has now been businesses as possible are able to reopen viably. We dumped. With the curfew, the substantial meal rule, and supported lockdown and the “whatever it takes” mantra, businesses open one day and closed the next, poor but we have seen economic support increasingly diverge decisions have exacerbated the economic woes of the from public health measures. This is wrong. There is sector. Ministers should learn from these mistakes, but also a huge economic cost in seeing successful businesses it is clear that they have not. Just yesterday, I was going to the wall through no fault of their own, with contacted by William Lees-Jones, a Manchester brewer, lost taxes, scarring unemployment and lower growth. In who rightly complained that there will only be a week’s the end, we all pay more for not supporting businesses notice before pubs’ outdoor opening is confirmed, with than we do for doing so. this being announced on a bank holiday. Hospitality The initial package of schemes—furlough, grants, businesses just think the Government do not get their loans, deferrals and so on—was welcome, but as time sector. has gone on it has become increasingly clear that those Although the road map is welcome, it is not a road schemes were okay for three months but not designed map for all, and for most is still way too uncertain to for the 12 to 18 months of lockdowns and lost trade plan around: to buy stock, brew beer, bring back staff that we have seen. The gaps at the start have become or book a wedding. The visitor economy is a big part of ever larger, and the debts, overheads and deferrals have the hospitality ecosystem—tourism, conferences, events, mounted, leaving the sectors that are most in distress, sports, culture and weddings; for them, the road map such as hospitality, on the brink, facing huge uncertainty still leads to a brick wall. The hospitality industry is on rocky foundations. vital to the recovery. It drove growth after the global It is clear from the Office for Budget Responsibility financial crisis and, with the right help, it could do so figures published with the Budget that there is a lack of again. As things stand, the industry will not be able to ambition about the longer-term recovery, with low growth be the work-horse of job opportunities that it once was, now seemingly accepted by the Government. The especially for the young. We need a real plan to support Chancellor is betting the farm on consumer spending hospitality to thrive, with the overhaul of business rates doing all the heavy lifting. He is taking a big gamble that is long overdue; real action on debts, with loans that saving spending alone will drive the recovery. There paid back on an income-contingent basis, as Labour are only so many haircuts and meals out that people can proposes; a proper job support scheme to reduce have in a short space of time, and for many, cuts to unemployment and drive growth; powers and resources family budgets will take money out of local economies to reignite our towns, city centres and high streets anyway. It is as if the Government cannot wait to get off through a hospitality and high street fightback fund; an the pitch. Having done the bare minimum to provide a extension of al fresco dining measures; more sector safety net, the aftermath is not of their concern. This is support, especially for the wet-led pubs; the freeing up the wrong choice for our economy. of group businesses and chains from state aid rules when it comes to cash grants; and public health guidance The announcements in the Budget do not mean that which makes operating viable and is fair to all parts. the job is done. We saw that in the reaction to the Hospitality businesses were the first to feel this crisis Chancellor’s photo opportunity with a certain celebrity and will likely be the last out of it. Firms have seen four chef, which became his very own kitchen nightmare. winters in a year, and no golden quarter. Every previously There is still huge uncertainty. There is still a looming viable business that goes bust will lengthen and deepen bombshell facing firms. There are still many hospitality the long tail of recovery. That is not just the Labour businesses on the brink of going bust, and big gaps in view, but the view of the International Monetary Fund, the support for those in the supply chain and those who the Bank of England and the OECD. We have to have been excluded from the start are getting bigger. support businesses today, tomorrow and through the Let us take the gaps in support. Businesses could recovery. The truth of the Budget was a Chancellor have just about survived them for three months, but are failing to do enough to stop insolvencies and to support totally desperate after a year and counting. The wedding long-term growth—that was the verdict of the OBR. sector; the events industry; the night-time economy, Now, “whatever it takes” must mean just that, otherwise including taxi drivers and security staff; supply-chain we will see a repeat of the mistakes of the last decade of businesses; freelancers; and company directors, including low growth and stagnant living standards. We cannot festival organisers and small traders—all have been afford to go back to business as usual. 1023 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry24 MARCH 2021 Covid-19: Hospitality Industry 1024

6.48 pm Equally, local authorities should have the guidance for restart grants to help them plan ahead and get the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, grants out quickly, so that businesses are in the best Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): I congratulate place to reopen at step 2 of the road map. None the less, my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine no business support package can ever match the benefits Saxby) on securing today’s debate. She has given me of operating in an open marketplace. While the new another stopping place in her constituency for us to restart grants and the additional restrictions grants are have a drink in when we are eventually able to do so, the important to the reopening and recovery of hospitality Bell Inn in Chittlehampton, and we will have to go to businesses, local authorities also have a part to play in the Nartnapa Thai kitchen in Lynton to have a good helping businesses to reopen safely, by making it easy meal there as well. This debate is important because the for them to maximise outside seating, tables and street hospitality sector is so important. As we have heard, it stores to serve food and drinks. That will not just help is important for its contribution to the economy, for hospitality businesses to reopen in a way that provides local high streets and communities, for the millions of extra capacity and therefore revenue, helping them to local jobs that it creates, and for the health and wellbeing manage down accrued debts, but provide the sector of us all. This debate has highlighted just how important with longer-term resilience. the sector is, and I hope it will go some way to restoring public confidence and kickstarting the recovery as we I encourage local authorities to make use of the see the road map to recovery. welcome back fund announced on Saturday 20 March and the additional restrictions grant funding to run We have heard of those local examples, including my publicity campaigns and to prepare for events such as hon. Friend the Member for Burton (Kate Griffiths) street markets, festivals and all those sorts of things to talking about Carling’s “support your local” campaign. help support local businesses. Campaigns and safe events We have heard about restaurants such as Bartellas, and will be vital in encouraging the return of shoppers to about cafés such as Coffee Cups, Catch 22 and the Pilot our town and city centres. At the same time, we need to House in Ynys Môn. We heard about Mulligans Sports make sure that we embed confidence by supporting Bar supporting its local area in Scunthorpe. Weknow that local pubs, cafés and restaurants. nationally the hospitality sector is a big deal, employing The hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy about 1.3 million people across 162,000 businesses, but Powell) raised the issue of those that had missed out on arguably it is even more important at the local level, support, which I have already addressed, but a number providing that cornerstone of our high streets, securing of Members mentioned small brewers and the relief local jobs and opportunities for local suppliers, supporting fund. The Chancellor has launched a technical consultation, the events that attract visitors to towns and cities up which closes on 4 April, and I encourage all brewers and down the country, and providing space for family and people interested in that sector to make sure that and friends to come together. In short, hospitality is the they have their say. Beer duty has been frozen for the lifeblood of our communities, our society and our second year in a row, saving drinkers £7.3 billion. The heritage. Government will set out details of the next stages of the Since the start of the pandemic, I have worked closely review in due course. with the sector to understand the issues involved so that We also heard from the hon. Member for North I can best represent its interests in Government. That Antrim (Ian Paisley). I have been working with Colin engagement has helped to shape the business support Neill from Hospitality Ulster on the hospitality sector package and ensured that as many hospitality businesses in Northern Ireland, and I am grateful for his feedback. as possible had access to some form of support. Clearly, I say to the hon. Gentleman that it is about time that we it would not have been possible to have a separate renewed the karaoke session that we had a few years scheme for every sector and every industry,or to compensate ago in his constituency. every company for every pound lost as a result of the Finally, a number of Members, including my hon. pandemic. The Government support package is designed Friends the Members for Loughborough (Jane Hunt), to ensure that as many businesses as possible—from the forCheadle(MaryRobinson)andforTivertonandHoniton large chains to the sole traders—qualify for some level (Neil Parish), raised the issue of weddings. I value the of business support, with the aim of saving as many fact that I was able to work with the weddings taskforce, otherwise healthy businesses and jobs as possible. which was brought together by the sector itself, involving That package included job retention measures, support a disparate number of businesses and voices focused on for the self-employed, access to grants and loans, VAT producing concentrated and collaborative work. We do cuts,business rates relief and the moratorium on commercial need to do more to make sure that we can give them the rent evictions.In addition, we have provided local authorities certainty that they need as we get to step 2, and I will with £2 billion of funding to support those businesses redouble my efforts to make sure that we can get that done. that do not qualify for the local restriction support In conclusion, the road map that the Prime Minister grants and the restart grants, including breweries; freelance announced provides a gradual and cautious step-by- and mobile businesses, which take in caterers, events, step—not stop-and-start—plan to reopen the economy. hair and beauty, and wedding-related businesses; tourism That, in tandem with the progress of the vaccination businesses, including group travel and tour operators, programme—bear in mind that at some points on Saturday, B&Bs, and events industry suppliers.I urge local authorities we were achieving something like 27 jabs a second—means to use the discretionary additional restrictions grant that we are hopeful of keeping to our schedule. funding generously to support those businesses and Despite the progress over the last few months, we others that have not had other forms of support. After cannot pretend that the way forward is easy or that all, they could, as we have heard, play a critical role in difficult choices do not lie ahead. For the sake of people attracting visitors to the city and town centres, as well across the country and for the NHS, we must remain as to their local areas, over the summer and beyond. cautious. We must remember hands, face and space. 1025 24 MARCH 2021 Business without Debate 1026

[Paul Scully] When staff working in York Hospital’s emergency department were informed that Vocare—a profit-making Ventilation and fresh air will also be hugely important subsidiary of Totally Plc—wanted to take over the as we seek to reopen. That is why the road map starts running of the minor injuries unit, they were deeply with outdoor opening before we come indoors. The disturbed, not least as we are in the midst of a pandemic, events research programme, which is looking at how we in which the staff have gone to extraordinary lengths to can have covid-secure events including larger weddings, serve my community.I therefore thank the 14,191 residents will report back in May. of York who in just three weeks signed a petition online We remain cautiously optimistic. I look forward to and in person to state clearly that their minor injuries returning to the hospitality sector, as I think we all do in unit must stay in the NHS—an incredible response. I this House. am glad that intense discussions have ensued and trust that our NHS will remain in public hands. 6.55 pm The petition states: Selaine Saxby: This is obviously the time of the evening when we should all be going to the pub or to The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons our much-loved bars here in the House, where I probably calls on the Government to recognise that the proposal to outsource owe colleagues who did not get to speak today a pint. I work done by the Emergency Department of York Teaching know they would have spoken with passion in support Hospital NHS Foundation Trust is ill-conceived, poorly timed of their hospitality businesses and whetted appetites and against the interests of patients; to prevent this outsourcing to the private sector; and to revise these plans for York Teaching with their tantalising take-outs. Hospital only when the Government has published its White I thank the Minister for his response. He knows that Paper and subsequent Bill on NHS reorganisation. a cold beer is on the bar whenever he wants to visit North Devon; I hope that the duty on it will reflect the Following is the full text of the petition: calls made across the Chamber today.As the self-appointed one-woman tourist board for North Devon, I invite all [The petition of residents of the constituency of York Members to visit when the time is right. I hope that they Central, will then understand why I am quite so passionate The petitioners of York declare that they oppose all about ensuring support for the sector here, across the proposals to move access to some services at York Hospital’s country and particularly in North Devon. I thank everyone Emergency Department (initial assessment, streaming for taking part today. and minor injury care) away from the NHS to a private Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): The company; further that the Royal College of Emergency Question is as on the Order Paper. As many as are Medicine clearly states that the Emergency Department should control the front door of the Emergency Department, of that opinion say “Aye.” [HON.MEMBERS: “Aye.”] I was looking for a more enthusiastic “Aye!”about pubs opening. not some third-party organisation; further that clinical Shall we do it again? As many as are of that opinion say governance have not considered how this reorganisation will disrupt patient pathways and clinical networks; further “Aye!”[HON.MEMBERS: “Aye!”] Tothe contrary “No”—the Ayes have it. that the governance have not considered how this will impact the clinical supervision of staff and governance of Question put and agreed to. patient care; further that they have not fully engaged with Resolved, the clinical specialists working in this filed; further that That this House has considered support for the hospitality this extends the privatisation of the NHS in a critical industry throughout the covid-19 pandemic. care facility and that such a move is not in the interests of patient care or clinical governance within the Emergency Business without Debate Department; further that we are managing a very difficult pandemic where there should be no distraction from the DELEGATED LEGISLATION delivery of clinical services; and notes that the Health Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Secretary expects to bring forward a White Paper outlining Order No. 118(6)), a reorganisation of the NHS, which could have implications for access to Emergency Departments, the treatment of INSOLVENCY minor injuries and trauma and general practice. That the draft Administration (Restrictions on Disposal etc. to Connected Persons) Regulations 2021, which were laid before this The petitioners therefore request that the House of House on 24 February, be approved.—(Scott Mann.) Commons calls on the Government to recognise that the Question agreed to. proposal to outsource work done by the Emergency Department of York Teaching Hospital NHS Foundation PETITION Trust is ill-conceived, poorly timed and against the interests of patients; to prevent this outsourcing to the private Privatisation of York Hospital’s Emergency sector;and to revise these plans for York Teaching Hospital Department only when the Government has published its White Paper and subsequent Bill on NHS reorganisation. 6.57 pm Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: I And the petitioners remain, etc.] rise to present this petition on the privatisation of York [P002654] Hospital’s emergency department on behalf of my constituents in York Central. 1027 24 MARCH 2021 Waste Incinerators 1028

Waste Incinerators application for the incinerator was made to Bradford Council. Four years and three applications later, the That this House Motion made, and Question proposed, Labour-run and controlled Bradford Council granted do now adjourn. —(Scott Mann.) planning permission. However, throughout this whole period, many residents, including my hon. Friend the 6.58 pm Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), questioned time Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con): Madam Deputy and again whether the planning applications were Speaker, may I extend my thanks to you and Mr Speaker scrutinised by Bradford Council in enough detail. for granting this urgent personal debate on waste I only entered this place in 2019. I have therefore incineration? Before I get going, let me declare to the taken the time to look back at Labour-run Bradford House that my family run and operate a plastic recycling Council’s report, which was produced by its assistant business. There is much to cover in this debate, so in the director for planning for a planning committee that met short time that I have, I want specifically to talk about in February 2017. The report included a recommendation the Aire valley incinerator that is due to be constructed to grant planning permission. I have a copy of that in my constituency. report here and it makes worrying reading. It concludes that there are no community safety implications. Bradford 7 pm Council’s air quality officer registered no objection. The Environment Agency registered no objection at the planning Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 9(3)). stage, commenting that Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House “We…have established that there are no show stoppers or do now adjourn.—(Scott Mann.) serious concerns relating to the location of the proposed development”, despite it being in close proximity to many homes and Robbie Moore: On 8 December last year,the Environment situated in the bottom of a valley. Agency made the decision to award an environmental permit for a waste incinerator to be built in Marley, Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): I right on the outskirts of Keighley. The scheme was am facing a very similar situation in the Delves Lane originally awarded planning consent by our local authority, area of my constituency at the moment, where I have Bradford Council, back in early 2017. That decision just heard that the local authority, Durham County was in spite of huge local opposition. That opposition Council, has done a deal with a local developer to not was led for many years by the Aire Valley Against put forward planning permission until after the local Incineration campaign team, which is an excellent group. elections. Is not that exactly the sort of issue that we are I must at this early stage in the debate give particular facing with these proposals when they come forward: credit and extend my personal thanks to Simon Shimbles shady backroom deals, often dragged out for longer in and Ian Hammond, who are part of the campaign team order to avoid democratic scrutiny? My hon. Friend has and have been working closely with me throughout the rightly highlighted the issue he faces in his constituency. many conversations I have had, so that we can collectively raise our concerns. Their passion, dedication and acute Robbie Moore: I thank my hon. Friend for his attention to detail has shone throughout all our discussions. intervention. To be quite honest, I am not surprised and This is a campaign team that has seen, over the last I find that an absolute disgrace to hear. We are talking six years or so, its following and the involvement from about incinerators being developed right next to people’s local residents grow to over 6,000 people. The team has homes, in close proximity to schools, care homes, and worked tirelessly over many years. In my view, since where people will be growing up and wanting to thrive forming, they have represented the views of the many in a sustainable environment. I am sorry to hear that he residents in Riddlesden, East Morton, Long Lee, Thwaites is experiencing a similar situation with Durham County Brow, Keighley and our wider community far better on Council. this subject than our local district council. The planning committee report made comments that As I have indicated, I stand here in the full knowledge concluded that planning permission should be granted. that the green light has been granted for the Aire valley I quote another worrying statement: incinerator to operate, so I want to pick up on some of “The proposal addresses the waste needs of Bradford community the huge concerns that I and many others still have, and in proximity to the waste arisings.” address some of the flawed decision making and disastrous Given that Keighley is situated on the periphery of decisions that have been adopted throughout the planning Bradford district, that is factually incorrect. So I say to application and the environmental permit stages. Labour-run Bradford Council: Keighley will not be treated This is an incinerator that is to be built at the bottom as your dumping ground. of a valley in close proximity to schools, residential care The report goes on: homes, playing fields, people’s homes—spaces where children grow up and play. Yet despite that, and a huge “The proposal enhances the environment and”— number of other factors which I will go into, both the wait for it, Madam Deputy Speaker— Environment Agency and Bradford Council, as the “promotes recycling.” local planning authority, have deemed the construction That is complete and utter nonsense. How on earth can and operation of the incinerator to be suitable and fit burning waste be classed by Bradford Council as enhancing for our environment. the quality of the environment, when it is known that This has been a long-running issue. The environmental particulate matter such as sulphates, nitrates, ammonia, permit for the incinerator was granted last December, sodium chloride and black carbon enter the atmosphere but the campaign against the project began way back in from such a process? I can only conclude that the 2013. In October of that year, the very first planning council must be taking us in Keighley for fools. And 1029 Waste Incinerators 24 MARCH 2021 Waste Incinerators 1030

[Robbie Moore] resultant challenges of the topography, and the public health implications of emissions as a result of temperature then to go on to say that the incinerator, which burns or cloud inversions. waste, promotes recycling—that goes beyond taking the We also raised concerns that pollution modelling biscuit. used unreliable data. I will give an example. The Following Bradford Council’s planning approval, the Environment Agency used data from the Bingley weather applicant, Endless Energy, applied to the Environment station. The Bingley weather station is located 262 metres Agency for an environmental permit, triggering a two-stage above sea level, whereas the proposed Aire valley incinerator consultation process, with the second consultation taking is situated roughly 85 metres above sea level. That place just last year. The Environment Agency promoted discrepancy in evaluation means that the estimated that it was “minded to approve” the permit—again, all dispersal of emissions from the incinerator is based on this despite the valid concerns that had been raised by information from a weather station in a significantly residents, the Aire Valley Against Incineration campaign raised position, where wind speeds behave much differently team, my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley and from those experienced at the bottom of the Aire valley. myself. We raised concerns about the proposed monitoring If that was not bad enough, the Environment Agency of emissions and any enforcement action that is likely decided to hold its supposedly open and transparent to follow. We raised issues with the stack height. The consultation right in the middle of a pandemic—a incinerator is proposed to have a stack height—a chimney consultation, I might add, that took place wholly online, height—of only 60 metres, yet other comparable denying my residents with no digital connectivity or incinerators have stacks far higher, where emissions are internet access the ability to contribute. That consultation better dispersed. contained over 50 documents for the general public to I could continue—the list goes on—but perhaps the review, yet, due to the pandemic, those documents were most significant of our concerns is the impact the not made publicly available in local libraries or community incinerator will have on human health via air quality. spaces as one would typically expect. I raised my concerns, The Minister will be aware that, back in 2018 and 2019, and admittedly extra time was granted by the Environment Public Health England funded a study to examine Agency for the consultation, but the stark reality is that emissions of particulate matter from incinerators and members of the public from my constituency and beyond their impact on human health. The study found that, were given an inadequate chance to properly scrutinise whileemissionsof particulatematterfromwasteincinerators the proposals and properly comment on the concerns are low and often make a small contribution to ambient regarding air quality that they had originally raised. background levels, they make a contribution nevertheless. I want to provide some clear examples of the Of course, there are many variables and influencing factors, Environment Agency’s failings to be open and transparent such as the stack height, the surrounding topography, throughout this process. The campaign team experienced the feedstock, the microclimate—again, the list goes on. significant delays in respect of freedom of information Residents are rightly concerned—I share their requests. Under the terms of the FOI regulations, the concerns—about the impact on air quality, not just Environment Agency is required to reply within 20 working from the incinerator itself but from the increased traffic days. The worst example experienced by the campaign flows bringing waste to the site.Unbelievably,in questioning team was a delay of four months. That is completely the decision making for the award of the environmental unacceptable. It resulted in a lost opportunity to carry permit, I was told by the Environment Agency that it out proper scrutiny of the applicant’s information. could consider only the emissions from the incinerator Here is a second example: there were missing documents itself, not those from the increased traffic flow from the that were not made available to the public at the start of heavy vehicles that will bring the waste to the site, the second consultation. Copies of all five of the EA’s because that was a planning matter, which Labour-run notices sent to the applicant were omitted, meaning that Bradford Council had already considered and deemed the public could see only the answers from the applicant to be acceptable. and not the questions that the Environment Agency It is my strong view that my constituents have been let asked. Those missing documents were made available down: failed by our Labour-run local authority, which only when I and the campaign team asked for them. claims to have its residents’ best interests at heart, but To be frank, that is shoddy work from a regulatory also let down by the Environment Agency, a regulatory body, and I cannot express my frustration and anger body that, in my view, carried out a half-hearted attempt enough. I am exceptionally pleased that the Under-Secretary through its consultation process.May I use this opportunity of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my to urge my hon. Friend the Minister to do all in her hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca power to take a close look at the Environment Agency’s Pow), who I know cares deeply about ensuring that our involvement, to hold it to account and to ensure that it regulatory bodies do their job properly, is listening and fulfils its statutory duty and that its involvement in such is able to take on board the challenges that we have consultations takes place in a proper manner? faced. My constituents deserve much better I want to use the last few moments to talk about the The potential impact on people’s health of the role of incineration in general, and about the circular incineration process cannot be ignored. In a 10-page economy.The circular economy means prioritising, reusing, submission that my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley repairing, refurbishing and recycling existing materials and I jointly submitted to the Environment Agency, we and regarding waste as something that can be turned raised the following concerns: issues with the inadequate into a resource. Many of us in this place and beyond and unfair consultation process itself; concerns about will be familiar with the waste hierarchy, which gives noise and odour pollution; and concerns about the fact top priority to preventing waste in the first place and, that the incinerator is built at the bottom of a valley, the when waste is created, gives preference to preparing it 1031 Waste Incinerators 24 MARCH 2021 Waste Incinerators 1032 for reuse, then for recycling, then for recovery and last the end of his eloquent speech. Our intention is to focus of all for disposal, whether to landfill or waste incineration. on reducing, recycling, reusing and, indeed, cutting As the Minister will be well aware, I believe that all down on all waste and moving to a circular economy. Government policy should be based on this hierarchy. This is absolutely the direction of travel, and we have I am pleased to see the extensive work that has gone targets in place to enable us to do that now. into the Environment Bill, led by my hon. Friend the We have a raft of targets. We have a target to increase Minister, and also into the Government’s resource and overall recycling rates to 65% by 2035. We have a target waste strategy. I was proud to sit on the Environment for zero avoidable waste by 2050. We have a target of Bill Committee and see that piece of legislation work its 10% of waste or less going to landfill by 2035. There are way through this House. I look forward to getting a lot of measures in the Environment Bill that will move involved in more of the debates as it comes back to this us in that direction. I have just been before the Chamber. It is my firm view that if we are serious about Environmental Audit Committee to talk about one of investing in our circular economic model, we must, as a the packaging reforms, the deposit return scheme, which country,incentivise reuse, recovery and recycling practices. will contribute towards driving us in the direction of Of course I appreciate that some waste simply cannot cutting waste. I am pleased to say that today we launched fall into those categories, but we must do all we can to the consultation, which is a big moment in moving us in discourage incineration and landfill practices as the the right direction. preferred option. For clarity, I reiterate that it was the Labour-run City That brings me on to the introduction of an incineration of Bradford Metropolitan District Council that granted tax, which is something that I have raised in this place planning permission back in 2017. The council sends before, and I commend this option. Unlike incineration, 58.4% of its collected and managed waste for incineration, landfill is already subject to a tax, and an incineration which is interesting. tax could work in a similar way. It would be a fiscal I will now talk about the Aire valley permission, but I de-incentivisation to incineration and could lead to also want to set out the steps that the Environment more innovation in other practices, such as recycling. Agency took following that planning permission to grant Of course, an incineration tax is not new or radical. its permits. In September 2018, Endless Energy Ltd Other countries have already adopted it, including the applied to the Environment Agency for an environmental Netherlands, Sweden and Austria. permit to operate an energy-from-waste site on Aire We owe it to the next generation to ensure that the Valley Road. The agency’s technical assessment of the planet is left safe and in a much better place than we application began shortly after receiving the application, found it. However, building more incinerators such as and it held its first public consultation between 1 November the Aire valley incinerator, the one in my constituency, and 13 December 2018. Some 2,000 comments were goes against everything we are trying to achieve. I know received during that consultation. The agency then consulted that many other colleagues from across the House are further on its draft decision between 8 June and 12 August of the same view. I suspect that it will be a couple of 2020, and it received 1,600 comments. years before the Aire valley incinerator is built and I take the points that my hon. Friend made pretty becomes operational, and I dread the date, but I wish to vociferously that there were some documents missing in reassure all residents in my constituency that the campaign the first consultation—I will not beat about the bush on to stop it is by no means over. I will do all I can to that. It was an admin error, and the EA duly reacted, ensure that their voice is heard, and to ensure that the put them in and extended the consultation. I think he operator, and those overseeing it—Labour-run Bradford will agree that that did happen. Council and the Environment Agency—are watched like a hawk. I will ensure that their actions are scrutinised The agency then considered all the comments received every step of the way. during both the consultation stages, and the final decision document was produced and is publicly available. It describes how the EA considered the issues raised. The 7.18 pm main concern, which my hon. Friend highlighted, was The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for that the site is in a valley that regularly experiences Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Rebecca Pow): It temperature inversions, resulting in misty conditions is so good, as ever, to see you in the Chair, Madam and a perception that emissions from the process will be Deputy Speaker. My goodness, that was a fiery trapped in that mist. presentation—I am not joking—on a hot topic. I expect The Environment Agency verified the modelling of nothing less from my hon. Friend the Member for air emissions provided by the applicant to ensure it Keighley (Robbie Moore), because he has spoken to me included an appropriate variety of weather conditions, many times about this issue, and I know that he has very including temperature inversions in the valley.The agency much wanted to bring it to our attention in the Chamber. also undertook its own detailed modelling of air emissions, He has certainly done that in respect of the proposal for and it is satisfied that the concerns are unfounded and an incinerator in the Aire valley in his constituency, the installation will not have a significant impact on air which would deal with 148,000 tonnes of commercial, quality—the EA has to follow due process and do the industrial and municipal waste and is expected to be modelling. operational in a few years’ time. The EA has issued information to explain its decision Before going into detail on the particular proposal, making, as well as to explain how Endless Energy’s I start by saying that my views have not changed at all. I application was assessed and the factors taken into have spoken about this many times in other debates, as account. The agency’s decision document sets out the has my hon. Friend, and the Government’s attention details and the reasons for proposing the conditions remains firmly on exactly what he talked about towards on the permit. As a result of this thorough process, the 1033 Waste Incinerators 24 MARCH 2021 Waste Incinerators 1034

[Rebecca Pow] of bringing in clean air zones across the country to keep people healthy, because this is a major health issue. Our EA determined that the applicant provided sufficient landmark Environment Bill, as my hon. Friend the information for it to be satisfied that the facility will not Member for Keighley knows, is bringing through ambitious compromise air quality limits or standards and will new air quality targets to help reduce the public health meet the relevant environmental requirements for this impacts. type of facility. The Environment Agency therefore I must point out that energy-from-waste plants in decided on 8 December 2020 to issue the permit to England are regulated, as I said, by the EA, and they allow Endless Energy to operate the facility as described must comply with the strict limits set down in legislation in the application and in the additional information in terms of air quality. Public Health England’s position provided. remains that modern, well run and regulated municipal It should be noted that the permit sets out the legally waste incinerators do not have a significant impact on binding conditions that Endless Energy Ltd must follow air quality. In addition, they must use what we call, to protect the air quality, the groundwater and the technically, best available techniques—that is the kit surface water, and to ensure the safe storage, management and equipment that they have to put in to meet and disposal of waste. As with all energy from waste, environmental standards and reinforce the levels of the use of abatement systems is required to keep emissions environmental protection. That is really important, and and air pollutants within strict limits set down in legislation. those techniques have recently been reviewed. That includes oxides of nitrogen, particulate matter, I reiterate my message at the beginning that, on a sulphur dioxide, hydrogen chloride, metal smoke and wider note, the Government are absolutely committed dioxins. to cutting down waste. We will reduce, recycle and The permit also include conditions to minimise the re-use. We are meeting all the targets that I outlined at risk of accidents, noise, odour and so forth, and as part the beginning. We are bringing through the measures of its regulatory regime the EA carries out regular that we need. What will happen is exactly what my hon. inspections. The facility will be subjected to those, but I Friend suggests: there will be less waste. Producers will assure my hon. Friend that I will hold the EA’s feet to be responsible for all the waste and packaging that they the fire to ensure that those things are done and the due put on the market. They will be responsible for its whole process is followed. It is essential that people feel that lifecycle and the full net costs. They will not want to the due process is being followed and they are safe. I have to pay for it to end up somewhere else, such as assure him that regular monitoring will be carried out. incineration, which is, bar landfill, right at the end of If the agency identifies that an energy-from-waste plant our waste hierarchy. breaches any of its permit conditions, appropriate The ambition is to have less and less waste going to enforcement actions will be taken. That may be a warning, incineration. There will always be some that will have to first of all, for a minor breach. Enforcement notices can go to the lower ends of the waste hierarchy, but the key be put in place or, indeed, a prosecution as and if is that the incinerators have to be safe, regulated, and necessary. well run. In a perfect world, not only would they My hon. Friend raised concerns about the planning generate energy from waste, but we would capture all process. Of course, planning decisions are a matter for the other heat that they create. They should be geared the local planning authority, which in this case is the up for that in future. City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council. The The tax matter that my hon. Friend raised is really for national planning policy framework sets out the planning Her Majesty’s Treasury. The 2018 Budget set out the policies for England and how they should be applied, Government’slong-term ambition to minimise the amount including consideration for such things as traffic and of waste going to incineration or landfill, but if the the build-up of transport issues. He rightly made his policies do not deliver that cut in waste the introduction views about the planning situation very clear—I will of a tax on incineration will be considered. I think I will not comment on it—as did my hon. Friend the Member end there. It was a terrifically vociferous speech. He for North West Durham (Mr Holden), who made some made his case unbelievably clearly, but hopefully the similar comments about his own constituency. message that I am giving is that we are cutting down on Wetake air quality extremely seriously as a Government, waste, and we certainly take such things as air quality and we are fully committed to reducing air pollution. extremely seriously. The World Health Organisation has praised our UK Question put and agreed to. clean air strategy as an example for the rest of the world to follow. Indeed, we are pouring £3.8 billion into 7.30 pm cleaning up our air, and we have an enormous strategy House adjourned. 365WH 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 366WH

“Recognise all members of NHS nursing profession by Westminster Hall giving them a 12.5% pay rise”, has been signed by more than 19,000 people and does not close until 7 June.

Wednesday 24 March 2021 Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I sought before the debate the hon. Lady’s permission and your permission, [STEWART HOSIE in the Chair] Mr Hosie, to intervene. The petitions before us are an indication of the numbers of people across the whole United Kingdom who feel strongly about this issue. The NHS Pay people emailing me are not just NHS workers. They are Virtual participation in proceedings commenced families; they are people who have been recipients of (Order, 25 February). the goodness of NHS workers. I believe that there is a [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] moral obligation on us—I have said this to Government as well—to deliver a satisfactory pay increase for nurses. [Relevant Documents: e-petition 300073, Increase pay We need to give them a rose of appreciation in the for NHS healthcare workers and recognise their work, springtime, not a dandelion. e-petition 316307, Award all Nursing Staff in the NHS a pay rise of 10% backdated to 1 April 2020, and e-petition Paula Barker: I completely concur with what the hon. 560253, Recognise all members of NHS nursing profession Gentleman has said. by giving them a 12.5% pay rise.] The figures that I have given lay bare the strength of feeling that people in our communities have for our 9.25 am incredible NHS staff as a whole. People who know me Stewart Hosie (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members and have listened to any of my previous contributions that there have been some changes to the normal practice on the public sector will know that I like to set the in order to support the new hybrid arrangements. The historical context, that context being the last decade timings of debates have been amended to allow technical and the political decisions taken by the Conservative arrangements to be made for the next debate. There will party in office during that time, especially on matters of be suspensions between debates. I remind Members public spending and public sector pay—matters that are participating, physically and virtually, that they must very close to my heart. During debates such as this, the arrive for the start of a debate in Westminster Hall and Government may like to pretend that the pre-pandemic are expected to remain for the entire debate. I must world does not exist. According to them, decisions that remind Members participating virtually that they are they take during the current economic crisis should be visible at all times, both to one another and to us in the taken in the context of spiralling debt and deficits, as Boothroyd Room. If Members attending virtually have well as the looming prospect of inflation. But we have any technical problems, they should email the Westminster been here before, have we not, especially given that the Hall Clerks’ email address. Members attending physically last economic crisis was not too long ago? The Government should clean their spaces before using them and before are starting to sound like a broken record stuck on leaving the room. I remind Members that Mr Speaker repeat, using the same smokescreens that they used in has stated that masks should be worn in Westminster the early part of the last decade, which laid the pretext Hall. Members attending physically who are speaking for an outright assault on public sector pay. in the latter stages of the call list should use the seats in Public sector workers, and not least the brave women the Public Gallery initially and move on to the horseshoe and men who staff our national health service, have when seats become available there. Members can speak long memories. What is it that I am referring to that from the horseshoe only where there are microphones. existed at the front and centre of the NHS worker Sadly, because this is a very well subscribed debate, psyche going into this pandemic? It is the fact that there will be a three-minute time limit for all Back-Bench nurses’ pay is down £840 in real terms since 2010. speakers. Further to that, the likes of the Health Foundation have stated that at the start of the pandemic, NHS wages 9.26 am were £600 lower per employee in real terms than in 2011-12. It is the fact that staff morale is at rock Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab): I beg to bottom, with many leaving certain NHS professions move, and the Government failing most spectacularly to fill That this House has considered NHS pay. the gap in staff shortages—nearly 50,000 combined It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, vacancies exist across doctor and nursing professions. It Mr Hosie. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for is the fact that workers have had to endure rising Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) and for Birkenhead demands on their work with less reward. (Mick Whitley) for co-sponsoring this debate. I am That is what NHS workers, who make up 4% of our pleased to have been allocated such a generous amount entire labour market staff, have had to suck up since of time for the debate. That is entirely justified given the 2010 in order to pay for an economic crisis—a crisis in importance of the subject at hand—NHS pay. the casino economy that they had no part in creating. I thank all those who have taken the time to sign the According to research delivered by London Economics following petitions: e-petition 300073, signed by more than for NHS trade unions, pay levels at every single Agenda 170,000 people and titled “Increase pay for NHS healthcare for Change spine point have lagged behind inflation workers and recognise their work”; e-petition 316307, since 2010-11, resulting in a significant decline in total titled “Award all Nursing Staff in the NHS a pay rise pay in real terms. Most spine points have exhibited a of 10% backdated to 1 April 2020” and signed by more decline in excess of 10%, and total pay on the Agenda than 140,000 people; and e-petition 560253, which is titled for Change spine point with the highest incidence of 367WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 368WH

[Paula Barker] ways: it applies only to one group of nurses rather than reflecting the experiences of all NHS workers in England, staff, at the top of band five, has declined by 15%. That and it does not take into account the years of austerity is three times the decline in median earnings experienced that defined the years prior to 2017-18. The Government by full-time private sector employees across the UK cannot spin an assertion that they are awarding pay over the same timeframe. rises when millions of NHS workers know the exact Let all of us here today contextualise the debate by opposite is true. reflecting on the picture faced by our brilliant NHS All we ever hear from the penny-pinchers that occupy staff before and going into the pandemic. They have the Government Benches is that we cannot afford this had their pay cut, their spending power slashed, their or that—basically, anything of social value or any moral living standards squeezed, and their morale smashed. good. The old mantra that public sector equals bad and That is the so-called old world that the new kids on the private sector equals good is making a return. This tired block—the Prime Minister and the Chancellor—would politics draws the economic orthodoxy to the conclusion rather us all forget, one built by their predecessors. that suppressing public sector pay is of economic benefit However, no amount of rebranding will disguise the in times of crisis, rather than the opportunity to grow fact that the current Government intend to continue the the economy that it represents. It is almost as if a same legacy of making public sector workers pick up decision has been taken according to the same logic that the tab for a crisis they had no part in creating. Indeed, public wages are a drain on the public purse and therefore this time it is even worse than that. They are paying for a resource to be tapped into in order to control public a crisis that they have ensured we have, and will, overcome. finances when it suits. Some thanks, I say, and shame on this Government. It is sound economics to deliver a just and fair pay In this new decade, the message being received by rise for NHS staff and a decent pay rise is affordable. NHS workers from the Government is this: brace yourself Currently, just over 1 million nurses, midwives, allied for more of the same. Staff in our NHS have had to health professionals and NHS support staff are covered endure all of that, and then 12 months ago were asked by the Agenda for Change pay framework in England. to once again go above and beyond, to gravely enter the The same aforementioned research conducted by London unknown, risking their mental and physical health. Economics concluded that a 10% increase to the NHS They have sacrificed their family and personal lives. England pay bill amounting to £3.4 billion would result Some have paid the ultimate sacrifice of their own lives in the net expenditure of only £0.66 billion when including in the line of service, duty and compassion. factors that are offset against the original figure. Let us cast our minds back to how terrifying the news Such offsets include increased tax receipts, because headlines, the newspaper stories and social media chatter public sector workers pay taxes, and increases in direct, were when the virus first emerged on these shores. The indirect and induced tax receipts, because public sector virus was the absolutely terrifying unknown for all our workers spend money in their local areas that helps to people, except for our NHS workers who were not grow local economies and support communities. A pro- afforded the luxury of watching this public health crisis public sector agenda is a pro-business agenda. It is a unfold from the sidelines as passive observers; they were miracle that public and private sector workers exhibit the frontline against the great unknown. similar economic behaviours—who knew? There would also be savings in recruitment and retention, To this day, their unrelenting commitment to the because better paid staff are happier staff. There is even public service still moves me, as it should all people here an extra £130 million in savings from the lower student today in Westminster Hall. I am not one to often quote debt write-offs for nursing students. This is the sort of Winston Churchill, or indeed make wartime references, sensible, moral and longer-term economic thinking the but never was so much owed by so many to so few. If Government are totally incapable of. Instead, we have any of this brave few were able to come up for breath for crumbs for midwives and support staff; their dignity, just a moment, maybe because of their shift patterns, livelihoods and take-home pay is unaffordable, according and sit in front of a TV screen on a Thursday evening to this Government, but not lucrative, publicly funded last year, they would have seen many ordinary folk contracts for the friends of Tory Ministers to deliver applauding their efforts. They would also have witnessed personal protective equipment shortages and botched the galling sight of the occupiers of No.10 and No.11 public health projects to the tune of billions of pounds. clapping for the photo op, with little intention of rewarding Apparently, that sort of spending is every bit affordable: them for their work, their sacrifice or their trauma. in fact, we are told, it should be celebrated. Not only do Appreciation of NHS workers is not about rhetoric, we have a Government guilty of cronyism, but of skewed warm words and pats on the head. Let me be absolutely priorities. We see that only too well today when not a clear. Claps and smiles do not pay the bills. It is about single Conservative Member apart from the Minister is deeds and actions, and when it comes to NHS pay, the here for this debate. only deeds and actions made by the Government have Government policy on the NHS tells us everything been a fresh round of insulting pay offers, or, in real that we need to know. Nurses, midwives and support terms, pay cuts. staff are left neglected, their immense contributions The Prime Minister recently told the House of Commons disregarded, forgotten by a Government and party intent that the Government have delivered a 12.8% increase in on reverting to type. There is no policy impact assessment, the starting salary of nurses. It may well be true to say as the real burden for public sector pay restraint will that some—but not all—nurses have received a pay rise once again fall on the shoulders of women who make of more than 12% since 2017-18. However, that is in up so much of the public sector, especially our NHS. cash terms, not in real terms, and it does not account for There is no regional impact assessment on areas more the fact that inflation erodes the spending power of reliant on public sector spending, such as my city of workers’ wages over time. It is a flattering figure in other Liverpool—so much for the levelling-up agenda. 369WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 370WH

To round up, the public overwhelmingly support a Government expect people to aspire to a future career pay rise for NHS staff because they, like me, understand in the profession when there are reports of nurses and appreciate their service each and every day; in times having to access support from food banks? long before covid, during it and long after. They are out A nurse at Luton and Dunstable hospital told me on the frontline, as I speak here today, delivering vaccine that they deserve proper recognition of the level of skill shots in the arms of millions of people, as well as and responsibility needed for the roles that they do. catching up on the huge backlog of urgent elective care They also said that there is no motivation, no incentive, procedures while the Government parade around this no value or appreciation. place telling us that the economics will not permit just The latest figures from the NHS staff survey show recognition and reward. If any group of workers in our that more than 300,000 staff worked unpaid over the National Health Service collectively decide that enough past year. That is 13,000 more staff working overtime is enough and they embark on a course of industrial than in 2019. The Government might point to the action, they will have unwavering solidarity. I appeal to uncertain financial situation and current low inflation the Government to change their course, walk the walk for the real-terms pay cut, but that is economically on NHS pay and give the NHS staff the pay rise that illiterate. If affordability is the Government’s main they so deeply deserve. contention, they should consider the knock-on benefits. The Government hope— 9.40 am Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab) [V]: It is a Stewart Hosie (in the Chair): Order. I am afraid the pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I three minutes are up. You can have half a sentence. am very pleased to have secured today’s debate alongside my hon. Friends the Members for Liverpool, Wavertree Rachel Hopkins: Apologies. We know the NHS staff (Paula Barker) and for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley). will spend pay rises in their local economy, and that will Workers across the public sector have faced help to rebuild as well. unprecedented challenges during the pandemic, and NHS staff have been at the forefront of our response to 9.44 am the coronavirus, spending long hours in suffocating Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure PPE in overwhelming environments. A nurse described to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I thank to me that it felt like they were part of a horror movie. my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree Frontline NHS staff at Luton and Dunstable hospital (Paula Barker) for leading this important debate, and I have told me that colleagues have broken down on thank the Members who co-sponsored it. I especially many occasions, and that the past year has had a severe thank my fantastic fellow Luton MP, my hon. Friend psychological impact on them owing to stress associated the Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins). I know with separation from their families, sleep deprivation that her commitment to the NHS and every healthcare and heavy workloads. The whole of society is extremely worker in it runs deep. Together we will keep fighting thankful for their work in protecting us, looking after for every healthcare worker in Luton to get the recognition, our loved ones and keeping the country going. pay and protections that they deserve. It should run The country came together to clap for our carers, but deep for everyone, not just during the pandemic, and it claps do not pay the bills and NHS workers deserve to should certainly last longer than the minute that the be rewarded for their dedication. The Government’s Prime Minister stands on his steps to clap for the key recommendation of a 1% increase for NHS staff in workers who saved his life and the lives of countless England is truly shameful. After a decade of austerity, others, and who held the hands of the 126,000 loved TUC research shows that if the 1% increase goes through ones lost this year. for 2021-22, nurses’ pay will be £2,500 less than in 2010 Among those who lost their lives were healthcare when adjusted for inflation, with an equivalent fall of workers, going into battle with covid-19 under-resourced, £3,330 for paramedics and £850 for porters. Experienced underfunded and overworked. After the year we have nurses will take home only an extra £3.50 a week. Not had, I cannot fathom why the Chancellor thought a pay only does the 1% pay proposal reflect the Conservative cut was good enough for healthcare workers. It is not party’s complete undervaluing of NHS staff, but it even good enough. Frankly,it is a disgrace,and I am embarrassed breaks their previous measly promise of a 2.1% pay at the excuses that have been given. One Conservative increase set out in the NHS long-term plan. peer even suggested that nurses were lucky to have their The British Medical Association, the Royal College jobs, which is an insult. What porters, cleaners, paramedics, of Nursing, the Royal College of Midwives and Unison nurses, carers, healthcare assistants, operating department have all told the Government to reconsider the pay practitioners, administration staff, midwives and doctors offer. A recent poll from Opinium found that 72% of need and deserve is not Ministers putting their hands UK adults believe the Government’s 1% pay proposal is together, but Ministers putting their hands in their too low. pockets and their money where their mouth is. Give our We have heard already that there is a nursing vacancy healthcare workers a pay rise! crisis that is compromising staff safety. Although the I pay tribute to healthcare workers’ hard work, Government state that they are recruiting more nurses, commitment and sacrifice. It has taken a toll, not only there are still more than 36,000 nursing vacancies, including on them, but on their families. A Facebook memory 3,314 in the eastern region where my constituency is, flashed up for me today. It is eight years to the day since which has barely changed over the past year. The issue my mum, Siew Owen, retired from being a matron. That is retention. How do the Government expect to retain did not mean she stopped working; she went back to experienced nursing staff who have suffered a sustained be a staff nurse for the last eight years of her career real-terms pay cut over the past decade? How can the and only fully retired this year. She worked for a total of 371WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 372WH

[Sarah Owen] workers. They have been working long hours and making personal sacrifices to keep us safe, but now they face 47 years for the NHS after coming from Malaysia when extortionate costs that they cannot afford. she was just 19. She and thousands of other nurses like A 1% pay rise is not a meaningful pay rise; after her come from all over the world to care for our sick inflation, it is essentially a pay cut. It sends all the and build our healthcare system. However, if she had wrong signals to the NHS workers who have kept our come today, under this Government she would have country going during this dreadful pandemic. It is an faced a number of unnecessary and unjustifiable barriers, utter betrayal by this Government not to give our NHS because it is not only pay that is an issue for NHS workers a bigger pay rise. The Prime Minister spent healthcare workers; there are also hidden costs. three nights in intensive care, on a ward for patients This is the third time in probably as many weeks that who needed specialist attention. He said afterwards: I have sat opposite this Minister, and I will ask her again “I can’t thank them enough. I owe them my life.” whether she believes that it is right to continue charging Jenny and Luis stood by the Prime Minister’s bedside, healthcare workers who have come here from overseas watching him during the night. The NHS protected to use the very system they work in. Is the pause on the him. It protected us. Now is the time when we must immigration health surcharge for NHS workers and protect it. care workers temporary,or will it continue post-pandemic? How is it right that a nurse at Luton and Dunstable 9.50 am University Hospital had to borrow money from other nurses to pay the IHS? I have asked the Minister this Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op): It has question before, and I have also put it to the Secretary been a year now since hospital beds started filling up. of State, so I would be grateful if we could get a straight Since then, there have been more than 126,000 deaths: answer today for the healthcare heroes, to whom we ourmothers,fathers,brothersandsisters,friends,neighbours owe a great debt. Healthcare workers prioritised our and colleagues—in the NHS, more colleagues than most. health during the pandemic; it is high time they were Last night, like many others, I reflected on a heartbreaking prioritised by this Government. year of loss, but while last year was tragic, what happened was not unavoidable. Implementing the first lockdown just one week earlier, as advised, could have halved the 9.47 am early mortality rate.Our hospitals and NHS staff weathered a storm of the Government’s making. Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I Let us cast our minds back to March 2020. It seems pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, implausible now that the Prime Minister was boasting Wavertree (Paula Barker) for securing this crucial debate about shaking hands with every person he met on a visit and for her tireless efforts to ensure that our key workers to a hospital with covid-19 patients. Edwina Currie get the fair pay they deserve. compared him with Princess Diana. Others were less favourable. It has been revealed by the BBC this week Yesterday, we came together to reflect on the tragic that the Prime Minister said that the best thing would events of the past year. We remembered the family be to ignore the virus and that overreaction would do members and friends we lost. We also paid tribute to more harm than good. those who cared for them. My constituency is home to The NHS is facing immense challenges, and overcoming the renowned St Thomas’ Hospital. That is the hospital them will be fundamental to its survival. There is the that saved the life of the Prime Minister and the lives of pandemic, of course, and the small matter of rolling out countless other people during this pandemic. The hospital’s the most ambitious vaccination programme in the nation’s staff are now working hard to deliver the vaccine, while history. Not only is our NHS asked to bear the brunt of still maintaining the hospital’s regular services to the the pandemic; it is forced to do it with one hand tied local community and to people from right across the behind its back. In February, NHS hospitals, mental country.I admit that I have a personal bias for St Thomas’ health services and community providers were reporting Hospital, as I received excellent care from the team a shortage of nearly 84,000 staff; 38,000 of those vacancies there throughout my two pregnancies. were for nurses—the enduring backbone of our national This past year has undoubtedly been one of the most health service.A decade of underfunding, lack of accessible difficult years for our NHS workers. They are physically training and failure to prioritise healthcare workers and mentally exhausted. I recently had the pleasure of have hit the NHS hard, but the Minister knows that—it meeting the staff team at Saint Thomas’ when I was is a situation of Government design. invited to speak at the Unison branch annual general The NHS is sick. It is underfunded and understaffed. meeting. I am proud to be a Unison member, and I am Just as a sick patient is not aided by removing their proud to have such an iconic hospital in my constituency. medicine, the NHS will not be healed by cutting the pay The staff team—including the dedicated nurses, security of its workers. The Government’s and their spin doctors’ team, porters and junior doctors—told me about all the praise for the NHS has been almost evangelical. We challenges they face while working day and night during have seen the Prime Minister clapping on our TV screens. this pandemic. We have heard Tory Ministers refer to NHS workers as During the lockdown, I participated in the weekly heroes and angels. We saw the hyperbolic outburst clap for our carers, along with my son and daughter, reach fever pitch when the Health Secretary cried on because I genuinely wanted to show my appreciation. national breakfast television. Most of the NHS workers But clapping does not pay the bills. I know that, in some I know have no desire for constant praise and adoration. cases, nurses have to rely on food banks as they struggle They do not want to be called angels. They are skilled to make ends meet. Many of my constituents who have professionals who have worked and are working through been caught up in the cladding scandal are NHS key a deadly pandemic. Most would be happy for their 373WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 374WH hospitals to be properly funded, for their patients to be Our healthcare workers deserve so much better. They given the best chance of survival and, finally, for a pay know it, the Opposition know it and the British public packet reflecting their workload. To cry hero, and then know it. What we need now is a substantial, well-earned cut pay, is as manipulative and cruel as it is unsurprising, pay rise for health workers that, at long last, recognises from a party that has systematically sought to undermine all they do for our country and that sets our NHS on a the health service and its workers. confident footing to face the great challenges of the The NHS has done so much more than just jobs difficult years ahead. during the pandemic. Its staff risked their lives every 9.55 am single day for our most vulnerable. They held the hands of those in the their final moments whose loved ones Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab) [V]: could not. They have been a bright flame of hope in a It is a pleasure to speak in this important debate with year filled with anxiety and fear. NHS workers have you in the Chair, Mr Hosie, and I congratulate my hon. given us more than we can ever give back. Their compassion, Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula bravery and will is something we may not ever be able Barker) on securing it. fully to repay. The recognition of their work can be We are all, rightly, incredibly grateful for the work fulfilled by a decent pay rise. that NHS staff have done over the last year. They have consistently gone above and beyond to cope with surges 9.53 am of demand in hospitals, to care for people with covid and to support family members who could not visit Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure those patients. Now, the NHS is running the largest to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I thank vaccination drive we have ever seen. As a reward for my hon. Friends the Members for Liverpool, Wavertree this, the Government have proposed a miserly 1% pay (Paula Barker) and for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) rise. With inflation set to rise over the next year, that for their hard work in securing the debate. I draw will mean that NHS staff who have done so much will attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ actually receive a real-terms pay cut. That is shameful Financial Interests. and insulting. Ministers should have recommended a I want to begin by paying tribute to the healthcare real-terms pay rise for NHS staff. heroes who continue to fight on the frontline of the The pay proposal for NHS staff manages to be both pandemic. In recent weeks I had the great honour of wrong and unpopular. More than two thirds of those meeting local members of the Royal College of Nursing. surveyed, including nearly 60% of Conservative voters, Despite the terrible toll that the fight against the disease think that a 1% pay rise is less than our NHS staff took on every one of them, their professionalism and deserve—but some NHS staff are even more underpaid. commitment to their patients never faltered. While many Last week, I met healthcare assistants from the north-west of us eagerly await a return to normal, they will continue to listen to them talk about their roles and their pay. to grapple with the deadly after-effects of covid for Band 2 healthcare assistants are among the lowest paid years to come, as the NHS struggles to address a NHS staff. In theory, they carry out personal care tasks backlog of nearly 4 million people. for patients, such as feeding, bathing and dressing. What has been their reward for their unceasing efforts However, many healthcare assistants are in fact carrying and tireless self-sacrifice? It is a miserable 1% pay rise out more wide-ranging and demanding tasks, such as that amounts to a real-terms cut and that will barely casting broken bones, washing and sealing wounds, and cover regulators’ registration fees or parking charges. carrying out observations or cannulations—tasks that Over the past year, Ministers who have built careers should be carried out by a band 3 healthcare assistant, gutting the NHS have spouted warm words for our who would be paid nearly £2,000 a year more. national health service, and Tory MPs have indulged in In one NHS trust in Greater Manchester, 98% of the shameless photo ops, applauding on their doorsteps, healthcare assistants are employed on band 2, compared but when the time came to crunch the numbers, they with a regional average of only 55%. That is refused utterly to give healthcare workers the pay rise straightforwardly keeping costs down by employing they deserve. They should hang their heads in shame. staff on one band and asking them to do the work of a At the very moment when the Government should be higher-paid band. They are being systematically underpaid shoring up the foundations of the NHS, they risk for the work they do. It is not acceptable. All NHS staff blowing them up entirely by driving thousands of people deserve to be fairly paid. When the Minister sums up, out of the profession with this insulting real-terms pay can she confirm that Ministers will ensure that all trusts cut. Already, too many NHS workers are struggling to have the funding they need to pay healthcare assistants make ends meet. Some 39% of nurses have been forced fairly for the work that they are doing? to skip meals to feed their families. Those who make up Finally, I want to come back to the 1%. For a the bedrock of our health service—the healthcare assistants, healthcare assistant I talked to last week, who earns cleaners and porters, to name but a few—are some of £9.80 an hour, the 1% increase will mean 9p an hour the most financially precarious workers in the country, extra. A better pay rise is needed if we want NHS staff all too often surviving on poverty pay and turning to to stay in their vital roles in the vaccine roll-out, on rip-off payday loans just to get by. covid wards and in handling the big backlog of elective Meanwhile, the NHS is facing a staffing crisis that surgery, screening and routine services. A better pay rise risks seriously jeopardising patient safety. There are is deserved by NHS staff, who went above and beyond already more than 5,000 nursing vacancies in the north-west in the pandemic, who risked their lives and those of alone, a figure that is likely to soar in just a few short their families, and whom we applauded week in, week years, and that is not taking into account the 30% of out. Clapping does not pay the bills. NHS staff are nurses who will be driven out of the profession by this worth more than the miserly 1% on offer, and the public shameful pay deal. overwhelmingly agree. 375WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 376WH

9.59 am levels of performance—they have to be absolutely ready. There is no doubt that if people do not get the pay they Ms Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab) [V]: It is a real think they deserve, or the public, in this case, think they pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Hosie—and looking deserve, that demoralises NHS staff. When they are so well. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for demoralised, some people will leave the profession; they Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula Barker), for Luton South will retire early and pack it in, and that is not what we (Rachel Hopkins) and for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley) want. As others have said, the general public expect for securing this debate. better than 1%. In the Scottish Parliament, Liberal For the last year, as has been said, our NHS staff Democrat colleagues will work in a positive way with have been toiling night and day, working bravely and the Scottish Government to secure a better deal—pay is selflessly to protect us from this terrible virus. Even of course devolved north of the border. before this pandemic, NHS staff were working an extra 1.1 million hours of unpaid overtime—it is a disgrace. I have one lesson, which relates to when I came to this It is those same nurses, doctors, porters, ambulance place nearly four years ago. I said to myself then, drivers, paramedics and so many more who have kept “What was austerity all about?” I say that because, now our wonderful NHS going. Even when they were on the that we have gone into the pandemic, money seems to brink of being overwhelmed by the fifth highest covid just appear. So my final point is that the Government death rate in the world, and despite the terrible trauma can give a better pay rise than 1%—it can be done. they have experienced, our doctors and nurses have held Strategically, for the health of the nation, and for the people’s hands as they died alone. They have watched defence of the nation against a killer virus and another the fear and borne the grief of 126,000 people and pandemic, that should be put in place as soon as possible. families, and counting. Now our NHS staff are on the brink of being 10.4 am overwhelmed too—they are simply exhausted. They Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure have done their jobs bravely night after night, day after to serve under your chairship, Mr Hosie. day, and they are still doing their jobs, with barely a I thank my good friend the hon. Member for Liverpool, break, a full year on. My gratitude is beyond words. But Wavertree (Paula Barker) for securing this debate just we must recognise that NHS staff bear scars from the days after the Government’s shameful decision to give past year that will last. Almost 60% of nurses experienced our NHS heroes a paltry 1% pay rise. My hon. Friend a mental health problem during that first wave. In some has a long track record of championing workers’ rights trusts, the proportion of staff absences relating to mental during her time as a regional convenor for Unison ill health has doubled. North West, where she fought for better pay and conditions Our NHS bears the scars too. In January, more than for all public sector workers. 300,000 people waited more than a year for treatment in hospital, and that figure will have only grown. Our I also pay tribute to Unison North West, which has NHS will recover its full health and wellbeing when its done so much for tens of thousands of members across staff can recover theirs. That requires action to guarantee our region, many of whom are NHS staff. Its One decent pay, conditions and, basically, respect. After all Team2k campaign has highlighted the need for every our NHS has gone through, if we offer real-terms pay worker in the NHS to be given a £2,000 pay rise and to cuts, rather than what our NHS heroes deserve, our bring the minimum pay to £10.23 per hour, taking the gratitude will prove hollow, superficial and meaningless, NHS pay float above the real living wage. and it will damage our NHS further. How disgraceful is It should come as no surprise that during this debate that? How much more will the health of communities we have heard repeated criticism of the Government’s suffer? decision to award NHS staff a 1% pay rise. After the The people who have cared for us deserve so much most challenging year for the NHS since its inception, more. This Government must understand the needs of when staff have been stretched to breaking point to the NHS, deliver for its staff and deliver now. keep our country safe and deliver first-class care, despite a chronically underfunded health service, this is no way to reward them. 10.2 am The Government should hang their heads in shame. Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) To put all of this in context, a 1% pay rise amounts to (LD): In the time-honoured words, it is a pleasure to just £223 million a year, or 2.23% of the £10 billion set serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie, and to see aside for new nuclear warheads, and just 0.22% of the you in rude good health. To follow that, if I can—almost £37 billion for the failed Test and Trace programme. If everything has been said—I heartily congratulate the we combine that with the £30 million that the Health hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula Barker) Secretary squandered on covid contracts for his former for securing this debate. neighbour, we will see that the decision not to give Let us take this down to brass tacks. First, one of my money to those who deserve it most is quite clearly an best friends very, very nearly died of covid, and it was ideological one. NHS staff who hauled him back from the edge. He is a One of the many lessons the Government should take pal of mine and, in a personal way, I am deeply grateful. away from this pandemic is that their death by a thousand All of us will have had similar experiences. cuts approach to the NHS prior to this crisis left it Secondly, it is a sad, true fact that another pandemic exposed and struggling to cope. We are far from being will come one day, because that is the nature of human out of the woods, and now should be the time for not life and the world—these viruses mutate and will come only investing to deal with the current pandemic, but at us again. Therefore, we want to be even better prepared planning for the future. That means retaining existing next time, so we have to have our NHS staff at tip-top NHS staff. 377WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 378WH

Given how they have been treated by this Government, and putting pay in the pockets of our NHS staff means is it any wonder that research by Unison has found that more money circulating around all of our communities 52% of NHS workers are considering leaving their as we recover from this pandemic, as it will be spent in position within the next year, with one in 10 considering our local shops, local tradespeople, childminders and that option very seriously? That is a staggering statistic, supporting local economies. and it is not simply because those staff feel overstretched Last year’s claps will not pay this year’s bills, so the after an incredibly difficult period; it is because 70% feel Government need to come up with a figure that not worse off than a year ago. That is simply unacceptable. only recognises the incredible national contribution that They include staff at Stepping Hill Hospital in Stockport our NHS staff have made during this pandemic, and Mr David McAllister, who runs the Unison health including the thousands of hours of unpaid overtime, branch at the hospital. The Government’s policy right but that begins to close the gulf between their pay and across the public sector should be fair pay for fair work. inflation over the past 10 years. Anything less is an utter It is also unacceptable that staff are being expected to betrayal. do more for less. There are countless stories of healthcare assistants being employed at band 2 while being trained 10.10 am to do band 3 work. The situation is made even worse by the fact that band 2 staff earn less than £10 an hour, Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab) [V]: It is a which in many parts of this country, particularly London, pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Hosie. I is a poverty wage. That is often stretched further still, as congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, almost half of the people served by Unison revealed Wavertree (Paula Barker) on securing this debate and that they were the main breadwinner in their family. I on standing up for the millions of NHS workers who hope that the Minister will listen and that the shameful have put their lives on the line during the covid crisis. 1% figure will be revised. NHS workers need a pay rise not just because they have worked hard for the last year, but because they 10.7 am have had repeated real-terms pay cuts for the past 10 years. The pandemic has shone a light on the fact Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab): May I that for more than a decade, we have failed to value the say what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, work done by people in the NHS and care sectors. That Mr Hosie? I thank my hon. Friend the Member for has had real consequences. Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula Barker) for raising this We have all read the stories about empty Nightingale important debate. hospitals. Some of those hospitals were never used I am proud to be a member of GMB and Unite, two because we did not have the workers to staff them. It of the trade unions in the NHS, and have had extensive was a misunderstanding of the long-term crisis in consultations with constituents in the Royal College of recruitment and retention in the NHS—a crisis with no Nursing who are rightly appalled at the 1% offer being mystery, as successive pay freezes have had serious floated. consequences on our ability to recruit to the NHS. Talk is cheap, but retaining the NHS’s status as the For example, pay rates for nurses in the UK are jewel in our national crown is not. Ten years of austerity extremely uncompetitive internationally. As a member and real-terms pay cuts for our NHS staff left our NHS of the Public Accounts Committee, I have heard evidence on its knees when the pandemic struck. It is a credit to that Australian nurses are paid double the amount paid the incredible efforts of our NHS staff, who put their to those in the UK and that those in the US are paid own lives on the line every single day, that we are now at one third more. Experts have even warned of a brain a point where we can talk about what life after covid drain abroad. That is disgraceful when the cost of might look like. giving our NHS workers a pay rise is so low. Two nurses in Warrington gave their lives caring for Based on the Treasury’sown figures, London Economics others through this pandemic: Andy Collier, a nurse calculated that the net cost of the RCN’s proposal of a practitioner at Hollins Park Hospital, and Joselito Habab, 12.5% pay rise is only £0.82 billion. Given that £37 billion a nurse at Warrington Hospital. May their memories has been found to fund Test and Trace for two years, forever be a blessing. when the annual NHS wage bill has been estimated to Beyond the ultimate sacrifice that they paid, I have be £34 billion, questions should rightly be asked about spoken to dozens of NHS workers in Warrington about what can and cannot be afforded. their own sacrifices, including an intensive therapy unit Instead of investing in staff, the Government’s offer nurse who has been living in a caravan, away from her of 1% is only enough to buy NHS workers an extra cup family home and children. She is terrified about bringing of coffee a week. That is not valuing the work they do, covid home to her family, as she sees the reality of this and it does not make up for a decade of pay stagnation. virus every single day at work. Other NHS workers It is no wonder that there are tens of thousands of moved into the Peace Centre to keep their families safe nursing and other vacancies in the NHS. Instead of as they cared for the families of others.They are overworked, investing billions into underwriting profits for private overwhelmed and yes, underpaid. companies, Ministers should be investing in our NHS NHS staff are among those accessing support from and the workers who keep it running. The pandemic has Warrington food bank, and thousands are suffering the shown us what happens when we do not do that. mental health effects of their experiences not only in dealing It is time to end pay stagnation, to back the calls from with the pandemic but in trying to make ends meet. the RCN, Unison, my own union the GMB and campaigns A real-terms NHS pay cut is not only a kick in the suchas“NHSworkerssaynotopublicsectorpayinequality”, teeth for our NHS frontline; it is also economically and to give our NHS workers the pay rise they deserve, illiterate. The NHS is the country’s largest employer which can be achieved with the right goals. 379WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 380WH

10.13 am An extra £16 billion for the military, £37 billion for the private Test and Trace system, and billions more in Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve dodgy contracts handed to Tory donors. But for nurses under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I thank my hon. just £3.50 a week. The Prime Minister says it is all we Friends the Members for Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula can afford, but the fortunes handed to arms dealers, Barker), for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) and for Serco bosses and the Health and Social Care Secretary’s Birkenhead (Mick Whitley) for securing this important former neighbour and pub landlord tell us something debate. different. When inflation is factored in, the 1% “pay I pay tribute to NHS staff across the Jarrow constituency rise” for NHS workers is really a pay cut—from clapping for all they have done and continue to do in our fight for carers to cutting their pay. Even for this Government, against covid-19. I also pay tribute to all the South this is shameful. Tyneside District Hospital and Queen Elizabeth Hospital WhileTorydonorshavebeengettingrichoff thispandemic, workers who have delivered vital care to many of my it has been NHS workers getting us through it. On the constituents throughout the pandemic. frontline, nurses, doctors, cleaners, porters and all of NHS staff up and down the country have worked our healthcare workers have been truly incredible, battling tirelessly in extremely challenging circumstances for the the virus, working overtime, enduring stress and trauma. past 12 months, which makes the proposed 1% pay rise Nearly 1,000 health and social care staff are estimated completely unacceptable. It is basically a slap in the face to have died from the virus, with workers too often not for more than a million hard-working NHS staff. I provided with the protective equipment they needed. agree with the 14 health unions representing 1.3 million Nearly half of intensive care staff report symptoms of health workers who have called for a significant pay rise post-traumatic stress disorder,severe depression or anxiety. for NHS workers. It has been encouraging to see in my All of this comes after a decade of NHS staff being inbox messages of overwhelming public support for them. overworked and underpaid, with nursing vacancies in I am sure that colleagues have had the same experience. the midlands alone standing at 7,500 and pay down as As highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for much as 30% for some staff. Now, according to research, Sheffield, Hallam (Olivia Blake), a fair and decent pay two in three nurses have to work overtime to pay the rise is supported by recent independent analysis by bills, and reports of nurses forced to rely on food banks London Economics. It found that the net cost of a pay are far from uncommon. rise is only around one fifth of the Government’s stated Tory Ministers call them heroes. They clapped for cost once factors such as the additional tax gained and them while cameras were watching, but now they think the economic impact of extra consumer spending are they can get away with a cut in their pay. They pit NHS taken into account. workers against other workers, saying that if one group There are currently an estimated 100,000 vacancies in has had their pay frozen, it is not fair for another group the NHS. It is crucial that the NHS can recruit and to have their pay raised. They say that if private sector retain existing staff to assist with the national recovery workers are losing their jobs, others should make sacrifices, from the pandemic, because as we recover, the NHS too. It is classic divide-and-rule tactics. It is an attempt faces new challenges such as the continued delivery of to turn working people against each other, leaving all of the vaccine roll-out, the potential for further waves of us worse off, while their donors and wealthy mates infection, the long-term increased demand on NHS laugh all the way to the bank. services from long covid, as well as the clearance of the Here is an alternative plan: instead of spending billions backlog of care that has built up over the last year. I more on new weapons of war or giving more fortunes to hope the Minister will agree that a significant pay rise private Test and Trace consultants, we could give NHS for NHS staff would make the NHS a more attractive workers the pay rise they deserve—15% to make up for career option, as well as help to retain those already a decade of lost pay. Instead of letting tax dodging run working within it. riot and corporate greed dominate, we could bring in a Many of us have applauded NHS staff from our new windfall tax to make the likes of Amazon pay their doorsteps for keeping us safe throughout the pandemic. fair share and to raise the pay of all our key workers, But sadly, clapping on our doorsteps does not put food public and private sector alike. NHS workers are always on the table or pay the bills for those who have suffered there for us. Now it is our turn to stand with them. 10 years of a real-terms pay cut under Conservative Governments. I hope the Minister will agree that a 10.19 am significant pay rise would finally reflect and respect the Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) (Lab) [V]: It value we place in their work. Throughout the pandemic, is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. the Government have wasted billions on failed track I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, and trace and given hundreds of millions to their friends Wavertree (Paula Barker) for securing this important and donors in contracts for faulty PPE. If they can do debate. As a former NHS worker and a current member that, there is no reason why a decent pay rise cannot be of the Select Committee on Health and Social Care, it funded for people who put their lives on the line every is undeniable that I feel passionately about this issue. day throughout this pandemic. I know that my constituents in Coventry North West share my strength of feeling towards this subject, as 10.16 am expressed by the hundreds of emails I have received and Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab) [V]: It is a the thousands of rainbows still dotted in the windows pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I of homes across Coventry. would like to begin by congratulating my hon. Friends The last year as been the toughest year in the NHS’s the Members for Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula Barker), 72-year history. NHS workers have been pushed to the for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley) and for Luton South limit and stretched beyond our wildest imagination. (Rachel Hopkins) on securing this debate. They have worked 1 million hours of unpaid overtime 381WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 382WH and sacrificed more than should ever have been asked of This year has thrown up unprecedented challenges to them. They have done this to keep us, the public, safe. us all, with people across these islands facing financial In the last year, at least 230 NHS workers have tragically hardship, mental health struggles and tragic loss. However, paid the ultimate sacrifice and lost their lives to covid it has been the NHS staff who have seen the very worst while serving others. My thoughts are with their families, of the pandemic. I pay tribute to the hard work and their communities and the colleagues they have left sheer dedication of NHS staff across Scotland and, behind. indeed, the rest of the UK who have worked tirelessly After a year of intense sacrifices and unprecedented during the pandemic. They include the nurses at Glasgow pressures, it is clear that NHS workers deserve better Royal Infirmary, the doctors at the Queen Elizabeth than the real-terms pay cut proposed. Indeed, our NHS University Hospital, the caterers at the New Victoria heroes deserve a pay rise. The nation, including members Hospital, the auxiliaries at Stobhill Hospital, and the of this Government, clapped on their doorsteps every cleaners at Lightburn Hospital. Every single one of Thursday to applaud the work of our NHS covid them has put in a shift and deserves our thanks and frontline workers. As has been touched on today, however, recognition. claps will not pay NHS workers’ rent or bills and cannot I also thank all those working in vaccination centres be exchanged for weekly food shops. across Scotland, including the armed forces, who have It must also be emphasised that the ramifications of been utterly invaluable. The vaccination numbers have this pay cut are not just confined to the household been truly astonishing, with 2,214,672 first doses finances of our NHS workers. It will exert further administered in Scotland as of yesterday. I particularly pressures on our local high streets at an already precarious want to thank the staff working in the six vaccination time for our local and regional economies. A proper pay centres across Glasgow, including in my own constituency rise for the staff of University Hospital Coventry would at Easterhouse. After a difficult year, we can see light at feed directly into the shops and businesses in my the end of this tunnel. It is clear today that we are all constituency. I have heard at first hand from small thankful for the work of NHS staff during this crisis, business owners that high streets such as Jardine Crescent, but, as many Members have said, warm words alone are Holbrook Lane and Wolseley Avenue would warmly not enough. welcome the rise in local spending power to ameliorate I have sat here today and listened to Members from the conditions of the last year. different parts of the room—I would not say all parts of In addition to the impact on our local high streets, I the House, given that there is only one Conservative feel compelled to touch on the staff vacancies crisis that Member here—the Minister—and I remain to be convinced our NHS faces. It is alarming but unsurprising that the about how much attention she has paid to the debate. mental and physical toll of being overworked and underpaid All Members have lavished praise on the NHS and its is driving too many NHS workers out of the profession. staff. The Prime Minister stood outside 10 Downing The extent of this crisis is vast, with an estimated Street and clapped for the NHS, but, as has also been 100,000 staff vacancies, and it is clear that we must act said, nurses and doctors cannot be paid in rounds of quickly to retain current NHS workers and recruit applause. The NHS has faced a once-in-a-lifetime event. many more to reduce the significant over-reliance on Its staff have risked their lives facing a previously unknown expensive bank and agency workers. No clearer message disease and now the UK Government’sproposed financial can be sent to current and prospective NHS workers recognition falls way short of what is acceptable. about their value than fair remuneration. We know that this UK Government have been Finally, I want to highlight the inequalities that this incompetent throughout the pandemic—not delivering pay cut will exacerbate. The effect of the pay cut will be on vital PPE, handing out contracts to friends and Tory heavily skewed against women. Some 76% of workers— donors, producing a test-and-trace system that has proven nearly 1 million NHS staff—affected by this Government ineffective, locking down too late and endangering too pay cut are women. Surely this is not the message we many people’slives. Now,with the vaccination programme want to send about the worth that our society places on in full swing and the UK Government publishing their the work of women. A pay rise will not begin to cover road map out of lockdown, it seems that they have all the personal sacrifices made by NHS workers while forgotten about the NHS staff who work every day to caring for strangers at a time of need. It is incumbent save lives. on the Government to ensure that NHS key workers are We in the SNP are proud of our record on NHS pay. paid fairly. Staff receive the most favourable pay settlement anywhere in the UK. Moreover, Scottish nurses are the best paid 10.23 am in the UK. To give an example, the salary of a band 5 nurse at the top of their pay scale is currently 3.38% higher David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): It is always a than the English equivalent, and social care staff in pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. Scotland are already paid better than those in England I, too, pay tribute to the hon. Member for Liverpool, and Wales, but we have not stopped there. In Scotland, Wavertree (Paula Barker), who secured and opened this the SNP Government have delivered a £500 bonus—a debate so eloquently. thank-you payment—to NHS staff after an unprecedented As we know and has been said before, this week year treating and responding to covid-19. marks the first anniversary of the beginning of lockdown. The £500 payment is for Scotland’s NHS and social This anniversary gives us all the chance to reflect on the care workers employed during the pandemic. It includes past year and the tragedy and hardship that we have all staff who have had to shield or have since retired and experienced. We have had an opportunity to remember includes final-year nursing students who have worked all those who have lost their lives due to the virus and to on temporary contracts during the pandemic. The Scottish recognise the grief of their families and friends. Government have repeatedly called on the British 383WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 384WH

[David Linden] staff survey, published this month, show that 300,000 staff have worked unpaid hours, and that almost 13,000 more Government to allow the payment to be exempt from staff reported working unpaid overtime compared with income tax. Sadly, the ability to exempt the bonus in 2019, suggesting that over 1 million hours of unpaid this way is not within the current gift or the current overtime have been worked during this pandemic. It is powers of the Scottish Government. little wonder that NHS staff are exhausted and that We in the SNP just want a simple payment of £500 to they are leaving. go to all NHS staff in Scotland, to reward them for My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree their unprecedented work during the pandemic. The made a strong case that pay increases can have a positive best and most straightforward way of doing that is by effect on retention levels, which is something that urgently exempting the payments from income tax and national needs addressing. The Minister will know all about the insurance. I again call on the UK Government to step shocking number of healthcare staff who have left their up and ensure that that £500 is exempt from income tax NHS roles for better pay conditions and work-life balance and national insurance. The UK Government have to in recent years, because she has seen the data—it is the put their money where their mouth is and truly recognise Government’s own data that say this. She will be well the sacrifice of our NHS staff, not just with claps, but aware that over the last year, 31,000 nurses and health with cash. visitors left the NHS—an increase of 50% since 2010-11.

10.28 am Jamie Stone: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Hosie. I thank Justin Madders: I am sorry, but I will not have time to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree take any interventions. (Paula Barker) for securing this important and heavily The Minister will know that since 2010-11, there has subscribed debate today.She gave an excellent, impassioned been a 181% increase in nurses and health visitors introduction. She summed the issue up very well when resigning due to their work-life balance,and an 82% increase she said that NHS staff are being asked to do more for in the number leaving for health reasons. She will be less. That really does sum up the Government’s approach aware that there has been a 57% increase in resignations to a lot of things: more for less. since that time because people found a better reward I thank all other hon. Members for their contributions package elsewhere. today. There are too many to mention individually, but Years of pay freezes, record vacancies and relentless I will pick out one or two during my speech. I particularly pressure have had a devastating effect on our NHS thank my hon. Friends the Members for Luton South workforce. Not surprisingly, as a last resort, hard-pressed (Rachel Hopkins) and for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley) staff are voting with their feet. That should ring alarm for co-sponsoring the debate. bells loud and clear that Ministers are not getting things Every Member spoke with great passion, sincerity right, that they need to change course and that they and knowledge about why the Government’s approach need to start listening to the NHS workforce. It is to the NHS pay deal is flawed. It is disrespectful and simply unacceptable that instead of giving our NHS ultimately self-defeating. Members who spoke showed staff the pay rise that they were promised, the Government clear support for and appreciation of the NHS workforce. are recommending that they should receive just 1% this Every single Member had that in common. They also year, an amount that the Government are fully aware is have in common that they are all from Opposition actually a real-terms pay cut. NHS staff are not being parties. Not one Back-Bench Tory MP has come today properly rewarded, as the Secretary of State said they to defend their party’s policy—not one. Worse still, not would be. That is not what is set out in the legislation one has come to defend the NHS workforce. That says passed by this House, which the Government voted for it all, doesn’t it? in the NHS long-term plan. I am sure we all agree, certainly among Opposition As the Minister knows, the plan set out a 2.1% pay Members, that our amazing NHS staff have been the increase for all NHS staff. The head of NHS England, ones who have kept this country going during the Sir Simon Stevens, has confirmed that the NHS did pandemic, who have kept us safe and who have looked indeed budget for that 2.1% pay rise, so the Government after our loved ones. They have been on the frontline have broken their promise. The Office for Budget looking after not just the 450,000-plus people who have Responsibility forecasts that inflation will rise by 1.5% this been hospitalised with coronavirus, but everyone else year, so instead of a pay rise that was budgeted for and who has needed medical attention, while at the same indeed voted for, NHS staff will see a real-term pay cut time putting their own lives on the line. Our NHS staff of hundreds of pounds. Experienced nurses will see a are feeling the strain. Do not forget that we entered the paltry £3.50 per week extra in their pay packet, which is pandemic with a record 100,000 vacancies in the NHS, just 50p a day. My hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and with a health workforce smaller than many other and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) told of a healthcare countries, meaning that our NHS staff have worked worker who will get 9p an hour extra. longer and harder than others during the covid crisis. Counting for inflation since the Conservative party For many people, the added pressure has had a took power in 2010, some NHS workers have seen their profound impact on their psychological wellbeing. Almost pay slashed by thousands of pounds a year. The starting half of NHS staff in England have reported feeling salary for nurses, physiotherapists, radiographers and unwell from work-related stress—the highest rate recorded numerous other NHS roles has seen a real-terms pay in the past five years—and NHS staff took 3.5 million cut of £841 per year, and average salaries have reduced sick days off between March and October last year due in real terms by around £2,379. That is not being to mental health issues. The latest figures from the NHS properly rewarded; it is not being rewarded at all. It is 385WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 386WH not good enough for those who have performed heroically After the last year, we should not have to fight a over the last year to be rewarded in this way. For many, battle to ask the Government to consider more than a real-terms pay cut will be the last straw. My hon. a 1% pay rise. It says everything about how little value Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Olivia Blake) those efforts over the last year have been appreciated. made the point that we are in an international market Our NHS staff deserve more than that. They deserve for healthcare staff and cannot afford to be complacent an agreed fair and sustainable pay settlement. Ministers in such matters. should admit their mistakes and undertake to agree a It could not be clearer that we need investment in our multi-year pay deal with NHS staff. In starting talks, workforce. Waiting lists have spiralled out of control, they should take the pay cut off the table and not set and we will need the staff more than ever. The Government a ceiling. Time and again, the Prime Minister said that urgently need to reconsider their approach; otherwise, the NHS would not pay the price for the pandemic. The the exodus that we are seeing at the moment will become Chancellor promised that the NHS would get whatever a flood. Hon. Members, the public, UNISON, other it needed. It is time to put those words into action. It is unions, the NHS Confederation and other bodies are time to ditch the empty promises and gestures. It is time all urging the Government to reconsider their 1% pay to do the right thing. rise proposal, so what is stopping them? It cannot be a We stayed at home to protect the NHS. We clapped lack of money, because, as we have heard, £37 billion for our carers during the pandemic, and we on the can be found for Test and Trace, millions can be spent Opposition side meant it. As my hon. Friend the on unusable PPE, and we have had £2.6 million for the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree said, claps and Prime Minister’s new media centre. It is a political smiles do not pay the bills. That is why the Opposition choice, and it is a choice that cannot be defended. will not rest until our brave NHS staff get fair pay and Indeed, as we see today, it seems that no Conservative the long-term settlement that they truly and honestly Back Benchers want to defend it. deserve. I am sure that the Minister is well aware of the anger the proposals have generated, but let me read out a few 10.37 am quotes from bodies representing the workforce so that The Minister for Care (Helen Whately): It is a pleasure she can see the strength of feeling. The British Medical to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I thank Association said it is a the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Paula Barker) “total dereliction of the Government’s moral duty” for securing the debate on this important issue and and a kick in the teeth. The Royal College of Nursing giving me the opportunity to talk about our NHS staff. said: I come from a family of doctors and nurses, and before “This is pitiful and bitterly disappointing” I became an MP I spent years working in hospitals and other NHS organisations, particularly to make the NHS and “dangerously out of touch”. Unison said it is the a better place to work, because NHS staff are our “worst kind of insult” and “some kind of joke.” The health system’s greatest asset. In normal times, they go TUC said it is the extra mile, but in the pandemic they have done so “a hammer blow to staff morale” time and again. and Unite described it as “unyielding contempt”. So I I welcome many of the points made by hon. Members do not think there is any mistaking how NHS workers this morning. Many have talked about the huge sacrifices feel. that staff have made during the pandemic—not only That mood is matched by the public, who overwhelmingly them, but their families. Some, for instance, moved out oppose the Government’s position. A poll showed that of their family home to ensure they did not bring 83% of the public and 78% of Conservative voters think coronavirus home with them. the Government should increase their pay offer. For a Colleagues have talked about not only nurses but Government who routinely pit people against one another other members of the healthcare workforce, including when it comes to pay, that must surely tell them they are healthcare assistants, who are often overlooked in these on the wrong side of the argument. If it does not, they conversations but are a vital part of our health service. must surely know they should think again when the Some Members have talked about vacancies in the former Health Secretary, the right hon. Member for NHS workforce, of which I am well aware, and I will South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt), calls their offer a provide some reassurance on that in my remarks. Hon. “miscalculation”. As understatements go, that is right Members have talked about PPE, but I do not see it as a up there. Wedo not know whether that view is widespread choice between paying the NHS workforce and providing on the Tory Benches, because no Conservative Member PPE—we must do both. PPE is not a choice; it is is here to tell us what their view is. I am not surprised essential to protect those working in the NHS, and to that the Prime Minister wants to avoid putting the me, it is non-negotiable. The shadow Minister, the hon. proposals to a vote, because how could any Conservative Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), Member look their constituents who work for the NHS spoke about the need to invest in our workforce. I in the eye if they vote for that? I do not know. wholeheartedly agree with that, and the Government It should not have come to this. The Government are doing so. really need to think again. The whole country is watching As I said, NHS staff are the NHS’s greatest asset. In and waiting for them to do the right thing. It is not fact, the NHS is, in essence, its people. The Government enough to say, “Wait for the pay review body” without are determined to ensure that the NHS can retain and giving a guarantee that, should the pay review body recruit the staff it needs. Over the last few years, the have recommend a real-terms pay rise, that will be honoured worked with trade unions to deliver multi-year pay and by the Government. If the Minister confirms at least contract-reform deals for more than a million of our that today, that would be a start. NHS staff. Over the last three years, nurses specifically 387WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 388WH

[Helen Whately] As the pay review bodies are independent, I cannot, and would not wish to, pre-empt their recommendations. have seen their starting salaries increase by more than We have asked the NHS pay review body, and the 12%. We have increased the lowest starting salary in the review body for doctors and dentists, to report later in NHS by more than 60%. the spring, and we will carefully consider their We all know that our NHS staff work around the recommendations when we receive them. clock to provide care. That is why, on top of the basic Justin Madders: The Minister is setting out the pay salary, NHS staff earn premium rates of pay for working review process, but it is also the case that she voted for a at night and over the weekend, and for agreed overtime. 2.1% pay increase only last year. Why has that changed? That increases individual pay by around £4,000 on average. On top of that, the NHS reward rightly includes Helen Whately: I am very glad that the hon. Gentleman benefits that go beyond the statutory minimum on has brought this point up. There have been no changes holidays, sick pay and pensions. to the 2.1%. I specifically looked into that, and we are Wehave also invested in our junior doctors, recognising absolutely consistent—the 2.1% in the long-term plan the huge contribution that they make to the NHS. The will be invested in the workforce as planned. That deal that we have agreed with the British Medical 2.1% includes the funding not only for the pay agreements Association improves junior doctors’ working lives, that we will reach through this process, but for existing protecting rest requirements and reducing the number pay deals and further workforce development, so we of consecutive shifts worked. By the end of that deal, will be standing by that 2.1%. junior doctor pay scales will have increased by at least As would be expected, I have had many conversations 8.2%, and around one in eight junior doctors will with NHS staff, from porters to healthcare assistants, receive more as they reach a new higher pay point to nurses, allied healthcare professionals, junior doctors reflect their level of responsibility. For our nurses and and consultants, both during the pandemic and for non-medical staff, this is the final year of the multi-year many years before. I have asked many times what would “Agenda for Change”deal. Wehave asked the independent help; what do staff most want? Pay is rarely mentioned pay review bodies to make recommendations on the pay in those conversations—[Interruption.] The hon. Member of our NHS staff for 2021-22. for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols) may laugh, As the Government have set out, the coronavirus but I am describing the many conversations I have had pandemic has placed a huge strain on public finances, over many years with NHS staff, including during the and the economic outlook remains uncertain. The pandemic. What is most often mentioned to me is that Government’s written evidence to the independent pay staff want more colleagues. They want more staff working review bodies set out that, in settling the Department of alongside them so that they can have more time to give Health and Social Care and NHS budgets, the Government patients the care that they want to provide. anticipated a headline pay award of 1% for NHS staff. That compares with the pay freeze for the wider public Justin Madders: Will the Minister give way? sector and, as we all know, with the context of many Helen Whately: I will make some progress, as time is people facing unemployment and pay cuts in many limited. Staff have told me many times that they want to parts of our economy. feel genuinely supported and valued in their work. Someone said that one of the upsides of the pandemic David Linden: The Minister is setting out the bleak is that when a colleague asks them how they are, they fiscal picture for the Government and the tough financial feel that the question is actually a meaningful one at the choices that have to be made. Will she explain, then, moment. If they say, “No, I’m not okay”, it has led to a why they have seen fit to invest in more nuclear warheads conversation in which they have talked about what would but not in pay for NHS staff? help. I would like to see that continued in easier times. Staff told me many times that they would like more Helen Whately: The hon. Gentleman will recognise autonomy in their jobs, and to be able to really make a that although the Government have to make some difference and make improvements in the area they difficult decisions, various things are non-negotiable. work in. Most recently, staff told me how much they One of those things is ensuring that the NHS is there want to be able to take time off, to have some time to for all our constituents who need it, and another thing spend with their families and time to recover and recuperate is ensuring that we have the defence that we need to from the stresses and strains of the pandemic. I am protect people from threats from overseas. determined that we shall deliver all those things for our Let me return to the matter in hand and set out a bit NHS workforce. more about the process that we are going through on Throughout the pandemic, I have worked with NHS NHS pay. As I mentioned, the evidence that we recently England to make sure that all possible support is in submitted to the NHS pay review covered a wide range place for staff. That includes practical support, like hot of data that was relevant to the decisions that that pay food and drinks and the free parking that has been review body will make. The pay review bodies themselves much talked about; and psychological support: mental are independent advisory bodies made up of industry health support, “wobble rooms”—which I have spoken experts. Their recommendations are based on a to staff about and they value them—dedicated support comprehensive assessment of evidence from a range of lines and helplines, and access to specialist support stakeholders, including trade unions. The wide range through new mental health and wellbeing hubs. As set of factors that they will consider includes the cost of out in the people plan, we are working with the whole living, recruitment and retention in the NHS, affordability NHS to build a more supportive, compassionate and and value for money for the taxpayer, and comparisons inclusive culture. A culture in which those who care are with wider public and private sector earnings. cared for in turn. 389WH NHS Pay 24 MARCH 2021 NHS Pay 390WH

On the first of the asks that I mentioned, that NHS over-subscribed. I hope today’s debate will go some way staff want more colleagues, we are making real progress. towards demonstrating to our incredible NHS workers In the NHS there are now over 6,500 more doctors, that they are valued by some people in this place. almost 10,600 more nurses and over 18,700 more health support workers compared with a year ago, and we are I am astounded that the Minister has come here well on our way to delivering 50,000 more nurses for the today to try to defend what is, frankly, indefensible. I NHS by the end of this Parliament. extend an invitation to the Minister to meet the NHS staff that I speak to, because they will tell her that what We estimate that there are 70,000 nurses and midwives they need and want is a pay rise. in training at the moment, and that includes 29,740 students who began nursing and midwifery courses this academic I am horrified to hear that some things are non- year. That is an increase of 26% from last year. Forty-eight negotiable, yet NHS staff do not seem to fall into that thousand students have applied to start nursing and category. I assure every worker who has held the hand midwifery courses later in the year. That is an increase of someone in their last moments, who has comforted of over a third compared with the number of applicants family members who were unable to be with their loved at the same time last year, so I can assure hon. Members ones at the end or who is currently vaccinating people that the supply of people training and coming forward to ensure that the spread of this virus comes to an end, to train to work in the NHS is strong. that I, and my colleagues on the Opposition Benches, Vacancies in the NHS—indeed, there are vacancies, will continue to fight for the pay rise they deserve, and but they are decreasing—have fallen by over 11,000 since the dignity that they should be afforded, because that is last year. There are 2,500 fewer nursing and midwifery what we believe is non-negotiable. vacancies and 1,800 fewer doctor vacancies. The Minister’s Government has the power to do the NHS and social care staff do a fantastic job, and they right thing. They do not have to wait for the pay review continue to go the extra mile time and again, especially body to tell them what the majority of people in this during the pandemic. We must recognise their skill and country already know. If there are billions of pounds dedication and make sure the rewards of work in the for Serco’s failed Test and Trace and for failed PPE NHS support the recruitment and retention of the contracts, there is money to reward those who have workforce our health service needs. That is why we have personally given so much during the pandemic. Our the independent pay review bodies. They will properly NHS staff must be awarded a decent pay rise because assess all the evidence, and the Government will consider nothing less will do. their recommendations and respond in due course. Those of us who have spoken today may disagree Question put and agreed to. about many things, but we all care deeply about our NHS and our NHS staff. I thank all the hon. Members Resolved, who spoke today for showing their support. That this House has considered NHS pay. 10.49 am Paula Barker: I thank all the hon. Members who spoke today and all the hon. Members who applied to 10.52 am speak but were unable to do so because the debate was Sitting suspended. 391WH 24 MARCH 2021 Luton Airport Expansion 392WH

Luton Airport Expansion in as much traffic as possible into often inappropriate locations. Luton airport and its owners, Luton Borough 11 am Council, appear during that period to have ignored the expectation in the framework that Stewart Hosie (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members “growth in aviation should ensure that benefits are shared between that there have been a few changes to normal practice in the aviation industry and local communities.” order to support the new hybrid arrangements. I remind When the last major expansion application was approved Members participating virtually that they are visible at in 2012, it was to double passenger capacity from 9 million all times, both to anyone else on the call and us in the to 18 million. At that time, the growth was envisaged to Boothroyd Room. Members attending physically should be over a period of 15 years to 2028 but, pre-pandemic, clean their spaces before they use them and as they leave that capacity had already been maxed out. The approval the room. I remind Members that Mr Speaker has went hand in hand with noise control limits, to be stated that masks should be worn in Westminster Hall, achieved by the modernisation of the operating fleet except when speaking. over that period. Community campaigning groups such as St Albans Quieter Skies and the Luton and District Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD) [V]: I beg to move, Association for the Control of Aircraft Noise were both That this House has considered the planned expansion of given assurances by the operators that expansion plans Luton Airport. were to be mitigated by that revolutionary technology. It is a real privilege to serve under your chairmanship, They understood that as the skies got busier they would Mr Hosie. I am pleased to have secured this debate and also become quieter. to welcome the hon. Members for Hitchin and Harpenden In fact, those groups tell me that the opposite has (Bim Afolami) and for North East Bedfordshire (Richard happened. The uncontrolled growth of operations means Fuller), who are keen to speak. I will keep my remarks that the 2028 limits were not only reached but exceeded to around 10 minutes, so that others can contribute. in 2019. The huge spike in passenger numbers has Let me start with the history and background. Luton meant greater numbers of aircraft, and even larger, airport is poorly sited on top of a hill, with no direct noisier ones. That has resulted in the noise control limit access by mainline trains. Although the M1 is close by, being breached with increasing severity in 2017, 2018 there are very poor east-west transport links.The passenger and a record-busting 2019, the same year in which the transport modality still favours cars and taxis. number of permitted passengers was also breached. My constituency of St Albans lies some distance to Trust from community groups and residents has therefore the south of Luton airport. Until the latter part of the completely broken down. They describe how they have last decade, the existence of the airport was of little been fobbed off with talk of the introduction of quieter consequence to the residents of St Albans. However, planes, and asked to ignore real-world data showing two main changes have taken place in that time, causing that they are at best only marginally quieter than the significant disruption to residents of the city and the ones they replaced. What measures will the Minister surrounding towns and villages. First, in the 10 years to take to compel Luton to keep its promises on real, 2019, passenger numbers have doubled from little more meaningful noise mitigation? What can he do to speed than 9 million to a record 19 million in 2019. That has up the much needed improvements to already congested resulted in a 50% increase in aircraft movements over airspace, to reduce the noise impact on Hertfordshire the same period. Secondly, the ever-increasing number residents? of flights arriving and departing the airport are being I will turn now to the question of the climate emergency, concentrated in a very narrow corridor between St Albans and emissions. The newer aircraft were supposed to be and Harpenden. The area navigation, or RNAV, system, quieter, but there was also a requirement that they introduced in 2015, has exacerbated the misery of my would be less polluting. Any further expansion to the constituents by directing planes to fly over the same airport must take into account the devastating impact homes and communities over and over again. of increased air traffic on climate change and the grave Let me start with aircraft noise. It will come as no health consequences of further air pollution for surprise that the most pressing concern of my constituents neighbouring districts. Once again, community groups is the noise from those flights. For many, the noise such as LADACAN and STAQS have pressed Luton disrupts their peace and quiet and their sleep and rest, airport on what progress is being made on reducing and is a major distraction from work and recreation. emissions from its operations; once again they are being There is also increasing evidence that this noise can given the runaround. The operators are keen to espouse have a profound effect on physical and mental health. A the improvements that they are making to airport study carried out by Queen Mary University of London operations, but the airport buildings account for only for the Airports Commission in 2015 identified increased 3% of emissions. The overwhelming majority of carbon incidences of heart disease, stroke, obesity and diabetes emissions are from the aircraft themselves, and the in the areas studied, as well as negative effects on surface transport to get to the planes—cars dropping psychological health and overall wellbeing. More research off and picking up passengers. The airport tells me that is needed, but I raise that study to shine a spotlight on those 97% of emissions are out of its control. What can how seriously we must take all the legitimate complaints the Minister do to reconcile the further expansion of of local residents. operations at Luton with the recommendations of the The next issue is expansion and consultation. Luton Climate Change Committee that set out a very aggressive growth plan a decade ago. It “demand cannot continue to grow unfettered”? was egged on by the Department for Transport’s aviation Will he commit to making sure that there is no further policy framework of 2013, which encouraged airports growth in capacity at all until the promised noise reductions such as Luton to make best use of their existing capacity. are delivered and aircraft have switched to sustainable That led to a free-for-all for regional airports, squeezing aviation fuel? 393WH Luton Airport Expansion24 MARCH 2021 Luton Airport Expansion 394WH

Finally, I want to touch on a real or perceived conflict The airport operators have voiced concern that there of interest. We have been told that the rapid growth to will be an oversupply of capacity at many airports for 2019 was unprecedented and unexpected. Weare apparently some time as we recover from covid. I would like to ask expected to ignore the incentivisation deal by Luton the Minister whether the situation presents a unique Borough Council, the owner of the airport, which opportunity to re-evaluate Luton’s suitability as a high- encouraged airport operators and their airlines to deliver capacity air hub in light of the airspace constraints, its consistent year-on-year growth. All the while, I and my poor location and its highly irregular ownership structure. constituents look on as Luton Borough Council spends tens of millions of pounds preparing an application for Stewart Hosie (in the Chair): For a brief contribution, a development control order to more than double I call Richard Fuller. capacity—again—to 32 million passengers per annum. At the heart of those plans is a complicated arrangement 11.11 am whereby Luton Borough Council owns the airport but Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): Thank the airport supposedly has an arm’s length company you very much indeed for calling me, Mr Hosie, and it is running it, and contracts an apparently independent a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. operator. Somehow we are expected to believe that the I also thank the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy owner of the airport, Luton Borough Council, has no Cooper), first for permitting me to speak in this debate, input into the strategy of continued expansion. but more importantly for her consistent campaigning The reality, as I have demonstrated, is that the authority against the further expansion of Luton airport. She is more than happy to incentivise growth at its airport. is right to call out Luton airport for its excessive That is where the whole arrangement becomes most and rapid growth and consistent breaches of noise troubling. The authority charged with making impartial limitations, and because expansion is inconsistent with judgments on planning and enforcement matters at the our environmental goals and our pathway to net zero. airport stands to lose the most from rejecting applications Minister, the current application for further expansion for expansion, and from enforcement. There is of Luton airport is an egregious example of a disregard understandable concern that although noise control of the principles of net zero, and that alone is sufficient limits were breached over the three years to 2019 no reason for the Government to oppose it. apparent enforcement action has been taken by the The other issue that she rightly mentioned is the planning authority to remedy the situation in the same conflict of interest between Luton Borough Council— period. Instead, we see the submission of a further Luton’s unitary council—and the airport expansion. As planning application to regularise the breaches to make the Minister knows, it is a great concern for local the problem go away. residents in Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire that somehow I do not accuse the local authority of any legal or Luton’s local authority has a major conflict of interest procedural impropriety, but it is very difficult for a and it is right and responsible for the Minister to act. In casual observer to be persuaded that there is no fact, the Minister has an opportunity to act. He has an predisposition for Luton Borough Council to be in opportunity to stop the consultation on air flight pathways favour of expansion. It is well documented that the between Luton and Stansted. That would give him airport is an enterprise that keeps the council solvent; in further time to consider what should happen. As the fact, there have been accusations that it is too reliant on hon. Member for St Albans said, he can call in this it as an income stream. expansion plan and provide confidence to residents in When the expansion of the airport was last debated Bedfordshire that due diligence and a proper appraisal in this place just over three years ago, it was in the of it will be undertaken. context of the medium to long-term proposal to increase the passenger limit at Luton to 32 million. I was encouraged Stewart Hosie (in the Chair): For an equally brief by the Minister who responded to that debate, the hon. contribution, I call Bim Afolami. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), who said that the Government would take 11.13 am the decision about expansion out of the hands of the Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): Thank local authority as a nationally significant infrastructure you for calling me to speak, Mr Hosie; it is a pleasure to application. serve under your chairmanship. I welcome the opportunity Today, I take the opportunity to ask the Minister if to contribute to the debate and I thank the hon. Member he will ensure that the decision on the current planning for St Albans (Daisy Cooper) for giving me that application, which would increase the passenger limit to opportunity. 90 million, is called in by the Secretary of State. That is Quite simply, there should not be any further expansion absolutely critical to restore the trust of our local of Luton airport—no ifs, no buts. It is in the wrong communities; a first step on that journey would be to place to have a larger airport. As has been outlined by make sure that the decision is not only impartial but both the hon. Member for St Albans and my hon. seen to be impartial. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard In conclusion, I accept that this debate takes place in Fuller), the airport has consistently shown disregard for the shadow of the pandemic. Luton, like other airports, local residents and their views. In particular, there is a has seen an extraordinary reduction in the demand for conflict between Luton Borough Council’slargely financial flights as we have faced rolling lockdowns and indeterminate interests and its need for Luton airport to grow and travel restrictions. However, the airport tells me that it grow for financial reasons, and the interests of local wants to ramp back up as soon as it can. That is all the residents in my constituency, and indeed those in more reason to put the brakes on these irresponsible many other surrounding constituencies in Hertfordshire expansion plans. and Bedfordshire. 395WH Luton Airport Expansion24 MARCH 2021 Luton Airport Expansion 396WH

[Bim Afolami] and necessary mitigation are developed and decided on locally, wherever possible. The Government’s involvement This process should not go on any longer. I urge the should be where there are strategic decisions to be Minister to outline how we can stop any further expansion. made, such as the national night flight policy currently In addition, I would welcome an update on the flight being consulted on. path reorganisation work being done over the coming I am aware that Luton’s proposed application for a years, not just from Stansted but from all the different development consent order would involve construction airports in the south-east, because that will significantly of a new second terminal to the north of the runway. impact the lives of my residents. Local people have had the opportunity to consider and comment on that proposal, as part of the statutory 11.15 am consultation undertaken by Luton. That consultation The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport ran between October and December 2019 and asked for (Robert Courts): It is a great honour to serve under your feedback on all aspects of the proposal, including the chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I congratulate the hon. Member layout, surface access, environmental mitigation, land for St Albans (Daisy Cooper) on securing this important assembly and compensation. I welcome the ambition debate on Luton airport expansion. I recognise the and the proposed further investment from Luton, but, importance of this matter to her constituents, and to as the final decision on Luton’s proposed development those of my hon. Friends the Members for Hitchin and consent order rests with the Secretary of State for Harpenden (Bim Afolami) and for North East Bedfordshire Transport, I hope hon. Members will understand that (Richard Fuller). I know it matters a great deal to them it is not appropriate for me to comment any further at and I welcome the chance to respond on behalf of the this stage. Government. Turning to airspace, I am aware of the proposed new For context, the UK enjoys one of the best connected, Luton airborne holding stack and the arrival arrangements. best value and safest aviation industry of anywhere in I am also aware of the concerns about increased overflight the world, and that strong industry is vital as we build and noise in those communities that may be affected. a truly global Britain and level up the country. It is That has been mentioned by all hon. Members today. I important to recognise at the outset the great social and am conscious that some of that arises out of the earlier economic benefits that the growth of the aviation sector performance-based navigation changes, which is the has brought. Airports serve local communities, support corridor to which the hon. Member for St Albans refers. thousands of jobs, and connect places and people across The Civil Aviation Authority is the consenting authority our Union and the world. Before the pandemic, the for airspace changes. It is important to distinguish sector contributed at least £22 billion to GDP each between the planning process with regards to land, and year and supported approximately half a million jobs in the airspace changes that are linked, of course, but are the UK. separate from the planning process. None the less, local Turning specifically to Luton airport itself, the authorities have the opportunity to consider and comment Government welcomes the ambition of airports to provide on proposed changes that could affect them. The Air better facilities and choice for passengers, and there has Navigation Guidance 2017, which was itself subject to a been significant investment in the terminal, airside and major public consultation in early 2017, is embedded in surface. I look forward to the opening of the Luton the Civil Aviation Authority’s CAP1616 process. It is DART,or direct air-rail transit, in 2022. That £225 million relatively new and is just beginning to take effect, but it infrastructure will support more sustainable travel to requires airspace change sponsors to undertake air pollution the airport. Pre-covid, Luton airport provided impressive and noise impact assessments of their proposals. It connectivity with 128 routes serving destinations across requires airspace sponsors to actively engage and consult Europe, the middle east and north Africa, illustrating with key stakeholders, including communities, on their the importance of global travel and spreading global proposals. understanding. Luton airport is a key employer in the When determining those proposals, the CAA will local area, supporting around 30,000 jobs in 2019, and consider the environmental benefits, the operational contributing £1.5 billion to the UK economy and requirements and the impact on communities. The CAA £500 million to the local economy surrounding the will also consider how the sponsors have reacted to the airport. consultation feedback that they have received. We will The Government are supportive of airports making expect a proposal to be submitted to the CAA over the the best use of their existing facilities. However, we summer. I hope hon. Members will understand that, recognise that the operation and development of airports given the potential for Ministers to call in the airspace can have negative, as well as positive, impacts for local change proposal, I am unable to make any further communities. In particular,I have listened to the comments comments on Luton’s specific proposal. made by my hon. Friends the Members for Hitchin and I turn to climate change, which has quite rightly been Harpenden and for North East Bedfordshire. They raised by all hon. Members who spoke today. The made excellent points in their speeches and I will continue Government of course recognise that the fight against to consider them in the weeks and months ahead. I look climate change is the greatest and most pressing of the forward to working with them. challenges facing our modern world. All hon. Members The Government’s position is that proposals for will know that the UK was the first major economy to development should be judged by the relevant planning pass laws to end our contribution to climate change by authority, taking careful account of all relevant 2050. We will be setting out ambitious plans in the considerations, particularly economic and environmental run-up to COP26 this year. The jets that we see today impacts, and proposed mitigations. Specifically on noise, are approximately twice as efficient and half as polluting, the Government’s aim is that any management strategies not to mention much quieter, than the ones that looked 397WH Luton Airport Expansion 24 MARCH 2021 398WH similar but were flying 20 years ago. However, we know STEM Subjects: Science and that more can be done. The Government’s starting Discovery Centres point is that emissions, not aviation—emissions, not flights—are the problem. We are taking decisive action in establishing, for [MRS MARIA MILLER in the Chair] example, the Jet Zero Council. The council, whose plenary met again last week, is a partnership between 2.30 pm industry and the Government, with the aim of delivering zero emission transatlantic flights within a generation. Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members It is focused on developing UK capabilities to deliver that there have been some changes to normal practices both net zero and zero emission commercial flight. That to support the new hybrid arrangements. Timings of includes considering how to develop and industrialise debates have been amended to allow technical arrangements clean aviation and aerospace technologies, establishing to be made for the next debate, and there will be UK production facilities for sustainable aviation fuels suspensions between each debate. and developing a co-ordinated approach to the policy I remind Members participating physically and virtually and regulatory framework that is needed to deliver net that they must arrive for the start of the debates in zero by 2050. Westminster Hall. Members are expected to remain for We are the first major economy in the world to pass the entire debate.I must also remind Members participating laws to end our contribution to global warming by virtually that they are visible at all times, both to each 2050. We have recently launched the green fuels, green other and to us in the Boothroyd Room. If Members skies competition, which is a £15 million funding attending virtually have any technical problems, they programme to support the development of first-of-its-kind should email the Westminster Hall Clerk’s email address. production plants, with the aim of producing sustainable Members attending physically should clean their spaces aviation fuel plants at scale in the UK. That builds on before they use them and, please, when they leave the the success of the earlier future fuels for flight and room. I remind Members that Mr Speaker has stated freight competition. In addition, £3 million will be used that masks should be worn in Westminster Hall, except to establish a sustainable aviation fuel clearing house, of course when people are participating in the debate. alongside the commitment to consult on a SAF blending Members attending physically who are in the latter mandate later this year. stages of the call list may use the seats at the back—I do I am keen to stress that the Government recognise not think that will be a problem for us in this debate. that we cannot act in isolation. Aviation emissions are I will not need to set a formal time limit for this debate, an inherently global issue. For a country where more but I encourage Members to be aware of the call list than 90% of those emissions originate from international and the time. I will call Front-Bench speakers from about flights, co-ordinated global action is especially important 3.28 pm. With that, let us move on to the main debate. if we are effectively to tackle the sector’s climate impact. The UK continues to take a leading role in the work of 2.31 pm ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organisation, to Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con): reduce emissions from international aviation. We are I beg to move, determined to see ICAO’s carbon offsetting and reduction scheme for international aviation succeed. The UK That this House has considered the Science and Discovery Centres’ support for education in science and careers in STEM volunteered to take part in that scheme from the start. subjects. We continue to advocate for increased environmental integrity within CORSIA. It is a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Mrs Miller, and to have the opportunity to discuss this Although airports are a key part of our commitment vital subject. to global connectivity, we are also a Government who are committed to a greener future. We take our The debate is timely, as we talked this week about the commitments on the environment, clean air and reducing road map to recovery and our ambitious plans to carbon emissions very seriously, and the expansion of consolidate the UK’s position as a world leader of any airport must always meet our climate change science and innovation. I start by thanking the Association obligations. In the coming months, the Department will for Science and Discovery Centres for its work and be consulting on a net zero aviation strategy that will set support, in particular Dr Penny Fidler, Chas Bishop, out the steps we will take to achieve net zero ambitions Linda Conlon and Professor Alice Roberts for their by 2050, and I warmly welcome contributions from all work and for their discussions with me, and every staff hon. Members present and their constituents as part of member,volunteer and everyone who teaches and inspires that consultation. science. I will talk about science’s role in our society In conclusion, the Government are committed to a before moving on to the role of science and discovery world-leading aviation sector. We are also committed to centres and support for our education, workforce and ensuring the sector can grow in a sustainable way, and I careers in STEM subjects—science,technology,engineering look forward to discussing that further in the weeks and and maths. months ahead. Science brings hope and progress towards a better future. Throughout the pandemic, we have seen that the Stewart Hosie (in the Chair): As this is a half-hour solutions and the way out have been driven by science. debate, there is no winding up or summing up. Now, we talk about new vaccines and new treatments, Question put and agreed to. built on the back of thousands of hours of research and 11.25 am development and an immense scientific and engineering workforce. Throughout history, the UK has been central Sitting suspended. to many scientific innovations and discoveries, from 399WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 400WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres [Dr Ben Spencer] this link and its wonder in a way that is interesting and exciting, but above all accessible. As with all engagement Jenner’s work on the smallpox vaccine to Watson, Crick activities, it is the staff and volunteers who are the and Rosalind Franklin’s discovery of DNA—the seed beating heart of the institutions, transferring their wonder that grew to offer hope today in our world-leading at science on to the next generation. That can come genomic sequencing programme surveying new covid through launching a water rocket, touching a lunar lander variants. or building an earthquake-resistant tower or through Science also offers hope for the future when we look something as simple as watching leafcutter ants demolish at the broader challenges that we face. For climate a plant. change, we look to science to clean up our pollution Science and discovery centres allow us all to discover and to provide sustainability. For novel threats, we look science and nature. Pre-pandemic, over the course of a to science to respond and defend us. For economic year they showed almost 10 million school-age children pressures and dropping productivity, we look to science the wonder of science. They inspired disadvantaged and to innovate. Even for how we talk in this debate, with under-represented groups into education, and set the Members appearing on Zoom, we look to science to path to careers in STEM subjects. keep us connected. Of course, science engagement is not limited to science Scientific method is founded on the principle that one and discovery centres. In my constituency,Royal Holloway, can never prove, only disprove, which means that we University of London, and Brooklands College do always strive for better understanding, ever challenging great science and engineering engagement activities and changing, and ever improving. Science is a deeply respectively, and today I want to celebrate all centres of human endeavour that dares, with uncompromising learning and science engagement. In particular, I call on audacity, to hope that nothing is beyond the reach of the Government to support all these centres as we open mankind’s understanding, that knowledge can be gained up again, and as part of our plan for the recovery of and the world and the universe understood with the education after covid. tools of hard work, discipline and careful observation. Each discovery builds on the work of others, all part of The covid pandemic has hit everyone hard, and science this great human endeavour—striving, yearning, learning and discovery centres, like many other charities, have and progress. had to close their doors. Many of their staff have been made redundant. Some centres have shifted their offering We depend on science for our future prosperity, for online, but it is just not the same as being in the centre our health and wellbeing, and for our very survival. We and seeing science in action, up close and personal. need a future workforce ready to build on the work that we do today, to make new discoveries, build the machines We have heard a lot about the impact that the covid and buildings, and offer new hope for generations to pandemic has had on children’s education, and rightly come. We must invest in science and ensure that it sits the Department for Education has focused on how we centre stage in our national plans, beginning with education can ensure that our children do not become the covid and reaching right through our social, cultural and generation. We have worked very hard over the years to economic policies. support and broaden access to careers in STEM to The Government have rightly made science, innovation, disadvantaged groups. The Minister for School Standards research and development the backbone of their plans has rightly worked hard to increase uptake in STEM for economic recovery and sustainability, to turn us into subjects at A-level for women. Science and discovery centres a science superpower—or, I would argue, to return us to are a key part of our educational offering, enriching the being a science superpower. We must celebrate science school experience and inspiring people to consider the and we must teach it to our children, but most of all we opportunities of a career in science. need to build and consolidate our scientific workforce I have spoken many times about the pandemic being for the future. a pandemic of inequality, as it has accentuated existing We know that women and people from disadvantaged health inequalities; those who were already worse off in backgrounds are under-represented in science, technology, our society are being hit the hardest and sadly, that is engineering and maths—the so-called STEM subjects. also the case in education. I regularly hear from teachers Stereotypes and social barriers can mean that many in my constituency their worries about the differential young people are not exposed to science, or consider it impact on children, and that those who are already alien. Science, maths and engineering can be portrayed disadvantaged will have the inequalities they experience as “unfeminine”; sadly, Hansard cannot record me tutting entrenched. in disgust at the nonsense of that statement, but there That situation also affects the enrichment offered by we are. science and discovery centres. With school trips called This is where science and discovery centres come in, off and centres closed, teachers have to make careful playing a vital role in breaking down these barriers. financial decisions, given the costs of education during Science and discovery centres—community hubs of science the pandemic. Of course those pressures will be highest engagement—showcase the wonder of science. They take in deprived areas,where the need for educational enrichment a lead role in our nation’s engagement with science. is greatest and where visiting a science and discovery They are places where people of all ages can learn and centre could be the spark of wonder that leads someone discover for themselves what science is, and they also on to a different path towards a career in science, support schools in bringing the science curriculum to life. technology, engineering and maths. Science can often be seen as dry and intellectual, and Science and discovery centres have benefited from the —dare I say it—geeky,but at its core is the experimentation main headline financial support schemes, such as furlough, with and observation of the world and its natural but many of them have missed out on sector-specific phenomena. Science and discovery centres reintroduce support as a result of not being seen as cultural institutions. 401WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 402WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres Consequently, they are really struggling. They need to that in Widnes and Runcorn we saw the birth of the open their doors again to all of us, but in particular to chemical industry in the UK, an industry that since schoolchildren. the 19th century was responsible for many innovations, I ask the Minister, who I know is passionate about inventions and products that improve all our lives. ensuring equality of opportunity for all and the role of ICI became the largest Halton chemical company, education in achieving that aim, to ensure that in a but it has now gone. Today, the largest chemical company world of competing pressures the vital work that science is INEOS, whose operations at the Runcorn site are of and discovery centres do is supported within our plans strategic national importance to the UK and which is for the recovery of education. also a strong supporter of Catalyst. For a long time the This debate is very personal to me. As a young boy chemical industry provided thousands of jobs, many growing up, I was inspired by the wonder of science by taken up by immigrant workers, mainly from Ireland my parents. This was nurtured and reinforced by the and eastern Europe, as well as workers from other parts trips I took to science museums and nature reserves, of the UK moving to Halton. In fact, my own family’s many of which would now be seen as science and heritage has huge connections to Ireland and many of discovery centres. I try to pass on the wonder of science my relatives worked for ICI, including my dad who was to my own children, be it through watching tadpoles a process worker. The industry also brought its problems, turn into frogs or seeing dinosaurs and space rockets at with dangerous working conditions and pollution. Catalyst the science and discovery centres. does not shy from that part of our heritage. The debate today is a celebration of the amazing The chair of the friends of Catalyst, my constituent work of our science and discovery centres, and all those Professor David Hornby from the department of molecular who inspire a love of science across our communities. It biology and biotechnology at the University of Sheffield, is also a plea to ensure that the current generation of wrote to me and said: school children do not miss out on these amazing “The Catalyst SD&HC is a unique repository of historic opportunities to discover and explore the possibilities documents and artefacts relating to the Industrial Revolution in that science offers, to pursue careers in STEM subjects the UK. The contribution of the Chemical Industry sector to the and to be the ones to lead future innovation and provide UK’s dominant global economic position over the period up to hope and inspiration for future generations. Every child and including WWII is remarkable in itself. needs the opportunity to discover science. We cannot let In addition, following Fleming’s discovery of antibiotics and the pandemic extinguish science’s spark of wonder for Florey and Chain’s translation of penicillin for the treatment of our next generation. bacterial infections, the Chemical Industry paved the way for the Pharmaceutical sector, which remains one of the UK’s most 2.41 pm lucrative sectors. Without which, the battle to overcome the current pandemic would have left the UK (and the world) much Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. more exposed.” Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) So, no Brunner Mond, no ICI; no ICI, no AstraZeneca. on securing this important debate. He went on to say: The Catalyst Science Discovery Centre in my constituency “The parallels between the last 50 years in Silicon Valley, is a unique hybrid, combining a museum and a science California and the first 50 years of Halton’s chemical industry are centre.It plays an important role in promoting STEM—the compelling. fields of science, technology, engineering and maths—and Both have arisen from the coalescence of a small group of learning to young people. I will concentrate mainly on highly educated and cultured pioneering individuals around a set that in my speech today, but we also have the brilliant of favourable geographical and logistical factors together with the Sci-Tech Daresbury in the borough of Halton as well. rapid deployment of a largely migrant workforce.” Catalyst is on the cusp of dramatic changes that will The conversion of Catalyst’s paper archive into a digital transform lives and create a new and exciting visitor one is critical to secure the amazing legacy of the place attraction for the north-west of England and beyond. It for the future. I pay tribute to the museum’s trustees and will have a Liverpool city region-wide impact, and draw friends group and the staff who have worked tirelessly in visitors from across the country and internationally. I over the years to keep it going through many financially am pleased that the city region Mayor, Steve Rotheram, challenging times. I pay special tribute to Chris Lewis, is a huge supporter of Catalyst. who recently stepped down but was the longstanding It all began in 1982 with an exhibition in the old town and highly effective chair of the friends of Catalyst. hall in Widnes to celebrate 100 years of the Society of On what Catalyst can do to promote STEM, I could Chemical Industry. The museum finally opened in the not do better than quote Dr Diana Leitch MBE, chair old Gossages building in the West Bank area of Widnes of the trustees of Catalyst and one of its most longstanding in 1989 as the Museum of the Chemical Industry. The supporters. She says: Catalyst building stands tall on the banks of the River “We at Catalyst strive to inspire younger generations to become Mersey, looking towards Runcorn and close to our three scientists and engineers and believe in themselves and their futures magnificent bridges—the silver jubilee bridge, the new through improving their education and their well-being. and huge Mersey gateway and the historic railway By a combination of heritage and vision of the future, we can bridge. A stunning glass observatory was added to the achieve much and put the Catalyst as a ‘Visitor Experience’ at the top of the Catalyst building, giving spectacular views heart of Halton and NW England’s great developments.” across the Mersey. It has a unique collection and has It is important that funding is secured for Catalyst’s won many awards over the years. future. Last year, the Government awarded it a grant of The Mersey is about much more than just Liverpool. £162,000 as part of the £1.57 billion culture recovery The heritage of the towns of Runcorn and Widnes, and fund, and the National Lottery Heritage Fund awarded their chemical industry, is tied to that great river, just as it £8,600. However, it continues to face a real financial much as the city of Liverpool. There is a strong case challenge. Martin Pearson, its chief executive, told me: 403WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 404WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres [Derek Twigg] five-year-old and a six-year-old—and they have talked about the coronavirus and are acutely aware of science “We play an active role in supporting all the STEM subjects on the back of the pandemic. We have an opportunity that schools do not have the ability to teach any more and work to train the next generation of scientists. Science and closely with industry partners to stimulate young people into discovery centres must play a key role in that, but they work in our area. cannot do so when they are on their knees.The Government However, being an independent Science Centre and Museum need to support these centres. Perhaps this year alone means we are totally reliant on visitor income and local company sponsorship. Our own estimates show that the income stream for we could set them a specific mission with regards to 2021/22 will be 50% of that in the 2019 pre-Covid year. We are not COP26. It would help plug a funding shortfall if we out of the woods yet. We employ 18 staff and have a small but were able to task the centres with local missions to dedicated group of volunteers.” engage young people on the back of an educational Catalyst is a brilliant interactive museum and science recovery plan that is needed for schools. centre. It is vital to our heritage and to encouraging Whether it is the Department for Education, the future generations of our young people to take up Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport or careers in science, research and engineering, and we the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial need to support it. I leave the final words to Professor Strategy,I urge the Government to look at the opportunities David Hornby, who wrote to me and said: that COP26 provides for sustainability.Ultimately, science “It seems to me to be vital not only to acknowledge the and discovery centres are well placed to teach the lessons importance of Halton to this country’s manufacturing past but to and the science of sustainability, and to train up a support the Catalyst in stimulating a younger generation to future generation of new scientists and responsible citizens become creative scientists who will be vital to this country’s future who will take the future of the planet incredibly seriously. success.” Science and discovery centres can help them achieve 2.47 pm that. Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con) [V]: I will be 2.52 pm brief. If hon. Members can hear any background noise, it is because I have a 16-month-old baby in a high chair Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure, as next to me watching “Paw Patrol”. I am hoping she will always, to serve under you in the Chair, Mrs Miller. I be okay. I want to make some comments both as a thank the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge former Science Minister who recognises the importance (Dr Spencer) for securing this incredibly important and of science and discovery centres and as chair of the timely debate, and for his passionate opening contribution. all-party parliamentary group on museums. We have I will focus my remarks on the Eureka! national seen the impact of the culture recovery fund and what children’s museum, which I am incredibly proud to say that has meant for keeping museums afloat over the is located in my Halifax constituency.I am an ambassador past year. Science and discovery centres have been unable for Eureka! and in my maiden speech I spoke about my to access the culture recovery fund. I wrote to the Minister memories of its opening back in 1992. I was six years about that, but it was not possible to achieve change. old, so hon. Members can imagine my excitement at the I want to talk about We The Curious, the science and time. It is a real privilege to advocate for Eureka! as an discovery centre in Bristol. I remember it as the Exploratory adult, with no less enthusiasm than I had for it as a from when I was growing up, and I have vivid memories child. of the wonderful experience I had visiting it several As I am sure hon. Members will agree, science and times. I would be taking my children to We The Curious discovery centres play a crucial role in inspiring the next if it were open now. Before covid, it had 300,000 visitors generation of scientists and researchers, as well as in a year, of which 70,000 were school visits, so Bristol broadening access to STEM subjects by making them schoolchildren had huge opportunities to visit this centre more accessible. That is absolutely essential for people right in Bristol city centre. However,it has lost £2.7 million from disadvantaged backgrounds and more marginalised of revenue since the pandemic began. It has had to communities. If it was not already obvious, the past restructure, making 46% of its education team redundant. year has shown just how crucial it is to nurture the next The restructuring of staff has led to £1.1 million-worth generation of scientists and big thinkers. Without them, of savings, but it is in dire straits. the covid vaccine would simply not have been possible. We need to recognise that there were 60 science and Eureka! is the only fully interactive museum for nought discovery centres in the national network across the to 11-year-olds anywhere in Britain. Prior to lockdown, country. There have been several closures as a result of Eureka! attracted 315,000 visitors every year, with my covid, but they had 25 million visitors a year, 11 million two-year-old and me regularly among them. Significantly, of whom were schoolchildren. Of those 11 million however, 19% of those visitors were from areas with visits, 20% were organised through the STEM curriculum high levels of deprivation. Having recently met Leigh-Anne directly delivering lesson plans in science, physics and Stradeski, the chief exec of Eureka! it is clear to me that chemistry. We have seen an enormous loss over the past although every attempt has been made to be diligent year, and we have to make sure that this loss is not and to build up reserves and financial resilience for the compounded by the closure of centres, which means future, the museum will be in trouble in the next few that children in local areas will miss out on the potential weeks. It has been unable to access support during the for science and discovery centres to enrich their curriculum pandemic and has received no Government recognition and inspire the next generation of scientists. of the role it plays and the important work it does. Some will be unable to access the cultural recovery Up until now, the museum has spent more than fund. I say to the Minister that this is the year of £1 million of its available reserves. It has reduced the COP26 and this is the generation that is going to workforce by more than a third, through a redundancy actually deliver on net zero. I have young children—a programme, and it has been forced permanently to 405WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 406WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres close the Eureka! nursery and, significantly for the current North East Technology Park—in Sedgefield. We are the debate, the education department. Based on the current home of such innovations as the first passenger railway, plans to reopen on 21 May, and assuming it will be able introduced almost 200 years ago by George Stephenson. to remain open thereafter, it forecasts visitor numbers I am absolutely convinced that it is through the stimulus of 127,000 through to the year end and a drop in of places such as the Life centre that young local minds reserves to just above the amount required by the board can be open to considering careers in such exciting to support the costs of winding up, should that become areas as research and innovation or engineering and necessary. If for any reason the museum is unable to science. We have all seen, in recent months, the difference open as planned, that will inevitably result in a further that scientists can make to our life on this planet. The deterioration of the financial outlook, so we can see more young minds we can encourage, the better off we what an anxious time it is for all involved at Eureka! will be. It was able to take advantage of some of the local My constituency’s businesses and colleges are the government covid grants, the furlough scheme and reduced opportunities through which young people can develop VAT rates for hospitality businesses but, like all other and grow and have stimulating and fulfilling careers science museums, it has remained ineligible for any and lives, but it is places such as the Life centre that significant support. It has, however, applied for a grant open the first door on that route. It is difficult to of £112,00 via the most recent round of DCMS funding overstate their importance. Whichever primary school I through the Heritage Lottery Fund, on the basis that visit, the importance of aspiration and the opening of a we have heritage assets on the site with a significant mind to a world of discovery is precious. Those things cultural and economic impact on our region, so I very can be the catalyst for aspiration to a life that youngsters much hope that the decision makers for that fund are could not previously have imagined. Later this week I taking note of the debate. shall be at Ferryhill Station and Bishopton Redmarshall The reason that the loss of the education team at primary schools and will make that point again. Eureka! is so worrying is that prior to the pandemic just Young minds engaged in STEM through science and 15% of scientists were from working-class backgrounds. discovery centres are stimulated regardless of gender, We are faced with an attainment gap that is increasing and that adds enormous value to the scientific community. for the first time in 10 years, and it is clear that science For example, Universal Technical College South Durham and development centres such as Eureka! are more inspires young women to go into science, technology, important than ever. STEM-based education programmes engineering and maths. A STEM-focused curriculum are delivered to an average of 32,000 key stage 1 and 2 and experiences with employers put aside traditional children every year on school visits to Eureka! and the stereotypes and allow youngsters to divine their own visits are undertaken by schools from across the region career path. Some 75% of the young women who go and beyond. through the UTC have gone on to degree-level STEM Another exciting project under way is Eureka! Mersey, apprenticeships in design, engineering or accountancy, a second Eureka! children’s museum in the Wirral, or have done STEM at university. which is set to open in 2022. That project is secure, but I have visited many of the businesses in Newton retaining and utilising the expertise of the Halifax staff Aycliffe and Sedgefield. They are all enhanced by the will be instrumental if we are to assist in unlocking the supply of young people with an interest in STEM potential of even more children in that part of the world subjects. It is through places such as the Life centre that as well as our own. seeds are planted to grow our scientists, engineers and Eureka! is the national children’s museum, and if any mathematicians. I cannot overstate my desire that we museum ever deserved support it is surely the national support their efforts. children’s museum. It does not receive any funding from the Government. I have met various Ministers about the issue and several have visited. Some genuine dialogue 2.59 pm about that in the long term would be welcome. Right Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab) now, if the Government are serious about enhancing [V]: It is a pleasure to contribute to this debate under the accessibility of STEM subjects, which will be vital your chairmanship. I congratulate the hon. Member for to the country’s future, they would not get a better Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) on bringing return on their investment than by backing Eureka! the this important debate to the House. It goes without national children’s museum. saying that our nation’s regional science and discovery centres play a crucial role in the country’s STEM success, 2.56 pm delivering inspirational science learning to schoolchildren Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con): It is a pleasure to and families, and working in partnership with schools, serve with you in the Chair, Mrs Miller. I congratulate teachers, universities, businesses and local communities. my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge As a London MP, I know that many children in my (Dr Spencer) on bringing this important debate. I do constituency have been inspired on visits to the very not have a science and discovery centre in my constituency. popular Science Museum in South Kensington. Indeed, I wish I did. However, I am sure that the vast majority our own Mayor excelled at science and maths at A-level, of the residents are well aware of the fantastic Life and his original desire was to be a dentist. Look what centre in Newcastle. My daughter went many times to happened to him: he is now the Mayor of London. Eureka! in Halifax. Such inspirational visits have helped herald a generation My constituency has a fabulous university technical of children and young people captivated by science and college at Newton Aycliffe, supported by great companies intent on a career in the UK’s promising scientific such as Hitachi and Gestamp, as well as an amazing industries. It is these scientific industries we need to science and innovation-led business park at NETPark—the be doing our utmost to foster and support right now. 407WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 408WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres [Catherine West] children and adults wide-eyed, laughing, playing and learning—indeed, I was one of them. The most accurate I know this all too well as a recipient of the Oxford- analogy I can think of is being let loose in Willy AstraZeneca covid-19 vaccine. Professor Sarah Gilbert Wonka’s chocolate factory.Xplore! has myriad interactive from Oxford University, who invented the vaccine, would installations akin to Wonka’s chocolate factory—for have been inspired by the Science Museum, and I wonder inquisitive minds but without the calorie count. whether she visited as a girl. I am proud that Wrexham has one of the 29 golden-ticket Many of those involved in the Oxford vaccine pipeline interactive science and discovery centres in the UK. will have come through the state education sector and Particularly for Wrexham, it is critical that these centres will have been inspired to pursue their dreams through survive and thrive post covid. Science centres such as visits to science museums, but I am deeply concerned Xplore! are essential not only in promoting and inspiring about their future. Due to covid-19, science centres have the next generation into STEM careers, but in aiding mainly been closed since March and have had to make the teching up of our older generation. It was only a few 50% to 80% of their education teams redundant in weeks ago that I stood in the main Chamber and asked order to protect the long-term survival of their charities. the Prime Minister whether he agreed with me that These closures and redundancies have come when we Wrexham is an excellent hub to lead the charge for the most need our regional science centres to help with the STEM revolution. There are very few positives to have educational recovery, to reduce inequality, to inspire come out of covid, but the production and roll-out of young people from our most disadvantaged communities the UK vaccine is one of them—a Union vaccine, into science, and to encourage our young people into created in England, trialled in Northern Ireland, bottled science and technology careers to support our industry here in Wales and distributed in Scotland and across the and our learning. rest of the Union—which means that this is a unique At the same time, the Government have abandoned moment in time to promote and invest in opportunities any pretence of having an industrial strategy and, as the and jobs in STEM sectors. Chair of the Select Committee on Science and Technology, I would like the young people of Wrexham to learn the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), and remember that Wockhardt in my constituency has has made clear: bottled the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. I want them “It is deeply concerning that at the very moment when the to be inspired by that. We have numerous pharmaceutical whole country recognises the importance of scientific research… companies here on the Wrexham industrial estate. We that the science budget should be facing immediate and substantial have a major hospital, the Maelor, for those who seek a cuts involving the cancellation of current research.” career in healthcare, and brilliant higher education facilities We know that these cuts will undermine UK productivity. at Wrexham Glyndwˆr University and Coleg Cambria, Every pound spent on research in the UK reaps a return which are able, keen and willing to facilitate STEM of £1.60, and any cuts end up costing our economy education. And we have Xplore! to provide the perfect millions. foundation for the promotion of those careers from an Rather than saying, as the Prime Minister has done, early age. that we have a successful covid-19 vaccine due to “greed” The science centres are more important now than and “capitalism”—which could not be further from the ever. Not only should we be using them to promote minds of people such Professor Sarah Gilbert—the STEM; we should also be using them as a key component Government are well placed to recognise the contributions for educational recovery post covid. The majority of of British science and address the myriad challenges children have had a limiting year learning at home. facing the sector. This must start with restating an Within our collective aim to build back better, there industrial strategy with science, research and development must be an element of recapturing the lost hands-on and international collaboration at its heart. It must also education. For those children who are tactile learners, have a holistic approach, recognising the challenges to home schooling is hugely detrimental and utilising the the pipeline if science and discovery centres are unable centres for educational recovery will be vital. to reach out and inspire the next generation of scientists. With science and discovery centres having the potential British science has played a key role in shining a light to be such crucial players in the covid recovery education out from the darkness and despair of this pandemic. system, their funding model needs to reflect that importance. Without action, we risk extinguishing the lights that Over the past year,science centres in Wales have struggled. will show us a path away from future challenges before Xplore! has received minimal covid funding from the they even begin. Welsh Labour Government. Ordinarily, Xplore! receives funding via the Welsh Government’s school programme 3.3 pm in order to offer reduced cost visits and workshops. Sarah Atherton (Wrexham) (Con) [V]: May I first Thankfully, that funding scheme, which was due to end thank my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and this month, has been extended until early next year. Weybridge (Dr Spencer) for securing this debate, which That is most welcome, but what happens in 2022? The gives us a brilliant opportunity to champion the impact fear is that children will lose out not only in terms of the of science centres in our constituencies? catch-up agenda but on ongoing interactive learning In Wrexham, we have a brilliant science discovery which in turn promotes the take-up of STEM subjects. centre called Xplore! It was formerly called Techniquest There is a domino effect. and I took my child there many times when he was We have the opportunity to be forward thinking in growing up. In September last year I was honoured to our approach to protecting our science and discovery be invited to the Xplore! rebrand event at its new centres. I urge the Welsh Government to contractually location in Wrexham town centre, and to see at first embed school visits within the national curriculum for hand its brilliant facilities and demonstrations. I saw the benefit of future generations of Welsh children. 409WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 410WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres 3.7 pm including a national engineering hub, not least because that was the heart of the site when British Rail engineered Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: It carriages there. is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mrs Miller. I am Imagine stepping out of the science and discovery delighted to speak in today’s debate and I thank the centre and walking into an engineering company. That hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) is what we should be striving for: not just investing in for calling it. science and discovery centres, which are desperately As people step inside the National Railway Museum, needed now,but building science and discovery communities which is undergoing its biggest refit since first opening and consolidating engineering, with young residents, 50 years ago, their passion for engineering will be museums, schools, universities and industry all working ignited. Steam, engineered almost 200 years ago, captured together to create a pathway into engineering. global attention and was soon used to advance trade, Will the Minister commit to working towards building travel and engineering. In 2023, the museum opens its science and discovery communities and providing seed new Wonderlab in the heart of York. We believe it will funding for that work, so that we can build for our catch global attention once more, not just displaying future? If we are serious about investing in science and the achievements of a great engineering past but birthing discovery centres, and about growing our economy with a new generation of great engineers who will one day the necessary skills, the Government have to get serious rival any the world over. about growing the whole pathway, from Wonderlab to The UK’s economy, already facing an annual shortfall wonderful global engineers. of around 59,000 engineers and technicians, is dependent 3.12 pm on science and discovery centres to engage young people Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): I welcome the debate to reach into a new world of possibilities. While the and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for dissected Ellerman Lines engine shows how steam-powered Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) on making trains, through combining heat and water, drove forward the running and on his excellent opening remarks. the engineering of the past, the new Wonderlab, which is part of the museum’s £55 million upgrade, will enable I will not detain the House for long, but I want young people to explore modern engineering, equipping to make a few comments about the Winchester Science them with the curiosity to find solutions to pressing critical Centre,whichIamveryfortunatetohaveinmyconstituency. and global challenges. It is an independent educational charity that receives no statutory funding from local authorities or Government I do not want the experience to be just a memory; rather, and raises more than £3 million every year to supports I want it to be a journey for young people. The National its core purpose of sparking curiosity in STEM. Many Railway Museum’s “Future Engineers” programme is a of your constituents will no doubt have visited it over start to that. How we continue to engage all who visit the years, Mrs Miller. will be key. Nurturing a passion for engineering, from It is all the more disappointing, then, in the context the moment of the first visit into a movement of budding of the debate, that the Winchester Science Centre will engineers, is the next step for science and discovery lose an expected £2.5 million in revenue because of this centres. Does the Minister see that ongoing relationship dreadful pandemic. I place on record how incredibly as a central pillar of this work, especially for local children? grateful we are to the Government for their support I also want to see the centres secure stronger links with the furlough scheme and the many other support with local universities and colleges. Imagine what could packages for businesses, which, it is no exaggeration to be developed in fostering a young engineer. A significant say, have prevented what could have been a much worse programme focusing on inclusion could ensure that outcome. The Winchester Science Centre charity,however, future engineers are representative of the country we has been excluded from applying for additional Government live in. Those who would otherwise write themselves off support—namely, the culture recovery fund, which I might embark on a path into engineering. As so many have spent a lot of time scrutinising as a member of the others have said, those who have struggled with their DCMS Committee. Other organisations in the local education this year might re-engage in the curriculum. area that do similar activities have received large grants, Girls, as much as boys, might realise the opportunities which has created an uneven playing field. thatengineeringopensup.Iwantthosesparksof imagination Some excellent research published by University College to catch fire. London in 2017 clearly states that informal science education must start at primary school age, which is Engineering is not theoretical but practical, so the good, because the Winchester Science Centre has been way science and discovery centres link to the economy is focusing on five to 12-year-olds since 1986. That means also vital. In York, we are fortunate to have some of that almost 4,000 children, who might otherwise not the greatest rail engineers in the country, working for have had the opportunity, have taken part in free, predominantlyspecialistsmallandmedium-sizedenterprises, informal science activities this past year, thanks to the designing stations, rail systems, future infrastructure centre’s widening participation in STEM outreach and high-tech digital rail. York is also home to one of programme. Network Rail’s operations. Imagine one of our young The facts speak for themselves. Some 170,000 visitors engineers experiencing that. enjoy live science, hands-on activities, and an immersive The National Railway Museum is the centrepiece 360° planetarium show each normal year—it is a fantastic of the York Central brownfield site adjacent to York show. Forty-five thousand school visitors engage with Central station, which is about to undergo major the activities every year, from 16 different counties development. It opens up new opportunities, so rather across the south-east. That includes, of course, constituents than suffocating the site with luxury apartments, it must of my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and be used to build York’s future economic footprint, Weybridge. 411WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 412WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres [Steve Brine] York and the Winchester Science Centre, among others. We are painting a picture of the role science centres can Just to touch on the careers part of what we are play in highlighting STEM opportunities to young people. discussing today, we in Winchester have strong STEM As we look to economic recovery post covid, we need relationships across the extremely sci-tech rich M3 corridor, young people with STEM expertise to play an active including a multi-year partnership with Airbus, role. According to the all-party parliamentary group on memorandums of understanding for public engagement diversity and inclusion in science, technology, engineering with the University of Southampton and the University and maths, 65% of the STEM workforce are white men, of Surrey, which is in Guildford, and many collaborations so any initiatives we can take to improve diversity will with industry through, among others, the Enterprise be of economic benefit to us all. M3 local enterprise partnership. The Scottish Government are determined to improve Going back to covid—as, regrettably,we always must—I the take-up of STEM subjects in schools and to encourage know that the BBC gets all the plaudits for singing its diversity in STEM careers, and we are making progress own praises for its home learning work in the past year, on that. Compared with 2007, we now have 20% more but I would argue that science centres have more than female undergraduates and 36% more female postgraduates done their bit. Winchester’s digital Science@Home in STEM courses. However, a 2017 survey commissioned campaign reached over a million people during a crisis by the Scottish Government found that young people where many organisations were not able to operate at from the most deprived areas were 20% less likely than all. Almost a quarter of a million children from across those in the least deprived areas to choose to study the UK watched a digital Christmas coding pantomime—it STEM courses. There is a continuing need to reach out sounds such fun. That was developed as part of our “Get to young people in whatever way we can, with a focus with the Program”, and promoted through Winchester’s on girls, black, Asian and minority ethnic students and schools network in last December. those from deprived backgrounds. We have heard today about the Association for Science With that in mind, the role of science centres in and Discovery Centres, and I suspect that the Minister Scotland is key and they work in partnership with local will be aware of that organisation. Winchester is, of course, authorities to provide outreach and programmes that a respected member of it, regularly participating in complement the school curriculum. That is recognised special interest groups to share best practice for the things by the UK Association for Science and Discovery Centres, they are doing. I know that, during the first lockdown, which states: the Winchester team co-created a new website offering “The arrangement in Scotland seems particularly fruitful, whereby other science centres around the country best advice on Scottish Science Centres have an agreement with the Scottish how to make their experiences more accessible to all. Government to reach children in schools and support teachers The future should be very positive and strong. We and families with inspirational STEM as part of the National have not come this far to go down now. I know the team Science Engagement Strategy.The Scottish Government particularly at Winchester,led by the excellent Ben Ward, are determined wants to reach families and communities from its most deprived to move on from covid and come back stronger. areas… especially now, and contracts science centres to do this for them, as they already have the relationships, the centres, the The truth is that, whatever the restrictions say, the science, the activities, the means and the passion.” school trips are not coming back any time soon, possibly That is something that we have to see more of. I not even in September—no matter my view on the would like to talk a bit about Glasgow Science Centre. over-caution that that would represent—so I would like The centre is 20 years old and I first visited it as a the Minister, when she sums up, and colleagues across physics teacher when I took youngsters there to enjoy it, Government and at the Department for Education, to which they did. It was a great day out and they had fun. make the positive case for school trips later this year, At that point, there were a lot of activities that did not and to give school leaders the confidence to get back really lead to anything; it was not joined up. Over those out there. 20 years, much more has been done and there has been As we have heard today, science centres will benefit great development in linking better with the curriculum from that because their main customer base is back, but and linking activities to careers and opportunities, so the country will also benefit because of their obvious that it is a much more holistic experience for young support for education and careers in STEM subjects—and people rather than just a fun day out. boy, has the past 12 months shown how much we need them. The work of the centres during the pandemic has continued, albeit in a different format, and I will talk Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): We now move to the about some of the activities taking place at Glasgow Front-Bench speakers. I remind the Minister that, when Science Centre over the last challenging year. When she makes her contribution, she will need to wind up by lockdown first commenced, the centre committed to about 3.58 pm to enable Dr Spencer to make his winding-up broadcasting new science content for every dayof lockdown. speech. By the end of the first lockdown, it had created and broadcast over 100 pieces of new science video content, 3.18 pm which has been viewed more than 1 million times on Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]: social media. The centre created a printed magazine of The debate has given lots of Members the opportunity science activities called The Spark, which was included to speak fondly of science centres in their areas. I in care packages and distributed to vulnerable families. congratulate the hon. Member for Runnymede and It broadcast weekly on Sunny G and Paisley FM radio. Weybridge (Dr Spencer) on bringing forward this debate. With no organised school visits possible, the centre We have heard today from Members talking about developed a learning lab with lesson plans, experiments, Eureka! the national children’s museum in Halifax, videos, homework activities and “meet the expert”sessions, Xplore! in Wrexham, the National Railway Museum in which are all packaged together to create a fully supported 413WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 414WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres and interactive eight-week programme in STEM. Already “Be curious”. Those are the words of the late Stephen nearly 3,000 pupils from 72 schools have taken part, Hawking in that powerful moment of opening the with 77% from deprived areas. The centre has adapted Paralympic games in 2012, when the world’s gaze fell on its employability programme, STEM Futures, for online our country. His message was somehow amplified by delivery and initiated a foundation apprenticeship the sight of his crumpled frame, because he did not just programme to provide opportunities for young people encourage us, he urged us. To quote him fully, when they need it most. “look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense The Scottish Government have continued to support of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. the work of science centres throughout the pandemic. Be curious.” Scottish science centres have received £2 million in It was a rare public appearance for someone so famous emergency funding from the Scottish Government in in the scientific community, but less well known beyond. addition to their usual contributions. To see centres His global message sought to inspire the world through in England excluded from the arts and heritage rescue hope and optimism. That invitation—that urgency—was package is concerning. We hear that 96% of science and to create a brave, new and better world for everyone by discovery centres say they will not be able to cover costs challenging perceptions and stereotypes that limit the when they reopen, and the Science Centres for Our Future potential of the human body, mind and spirit. It was a campaign warns that the sector is at “imminent risk”. special moment. The UK Government must support the science and If we needed telling—and perhaps we did—science is discovery centres in England and ensure their success. all around us. It is only a matter of opening our eyes, of Not only are the Government failing to support science what we are able to see, what we are trained to see, or and discovery centres, but they have removed other what we have the innate talent to see. For some, such as opportunities for STEM research through Brexit, whether Stephen Hawking, that talent was able to flourish. It through the Erasmus programme or faffing about with may have developed in the classroom, but it was his the funding for Horizon Europe. The hon. Member for observation of the universe that made him wonder. So Hornsey and Wood Green (Catherine West) was right much great scientific thinking has come from observing to highlight the brutal cuts to the science budget. the world around us and asking why or how. Those I am sure that hon. Members have gathered that reflections can spur deep thought as we ponder the Glasgow Science Centre is one of Scotland’smost successful natural world and have spurred, through the centuries, and loved visitor attractions. As the world recovers the work of Archimedes, Galileo, Leonardo da Vinci, from covid-19, visitors will return, but we need to look and, closer to home, that of Newton, Mary Anning, at a blended approach between in person and digital Charles Darwin, and countless others—all by asking content that better serves our communities. Science the simple question of why. centres can create long-term and sustained relationships The UK has a proud history of science and innovation, with young people and build supportive ecosystems in though many scientific discoveries, including penicillin schools, families and communities. Those centres are by the Scot Alexander Fleming and the structure of much more than a good day out, but they need support. DNA by Franklin, Crick and Watson. UK inventions I hope this Government, which professes to support include Stephenson’s steam engine, as we heard from science, will support those vehicles that are driving our my hon. Friend the Member for York Central; the future talent. television, by another great Scot, John Logie Baird; the jet engine by Coventrian Frank Whittle; the World 3.25 pm Wide Web by Sir Tim Berners-Lee; the modern bicycle; the flying wing that led to the development of Concorde Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): It is and ultimately the stealth fighter; the jump jet; the a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Miller. I lithium-ion battery; graphene—all British or co-developed congratulate the hon. Member for Runnymede and with other nations. I could go on. Weybridge (Dr Spencer) on securing this important and Through time, these discoveries have helped to improve timely debate. I agree with his comments on the differential our understanding of the natural world and the science impact on young people of the pandemic, particularly that forms it. So much of that has originated from the in education. I agree, without exception, with the observations of curious minds: Newton observing how contributions from around this virtual Chamber on the apples fell perpendicularly to the ground; Boyle observing challenge and opportunities that the pandemic brings, in a laboratory as those early scientists sought to explain and the impact on these centres. the relationship between pressure, volume and temperature We heard about the impact on the Catalyst Science that would ultimately lead to the development of power and Discovery Centre from my hon. Friend the Member and engines; Baird, who built what was to become the for Halton (Derek Twigg); on the National Railway world’s first working television set, using items including Museum from my hon. Friend the Member for York an old hatbox, a pair of scissors, some darning needles, Central (Rachael Maskell); on the Xplore! Centre from a few bicycle light lenses, a used tea chest, and sealing the hon. Member for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton); on wax and glue that he had purchased; and Sir Frank the Winchester Science Centre; on the Eureka! Centre Whittle, who became fascinated by the gas engine and in Halifax, and on the Bristol Exploratory Centre, the work of pistons in his dad’s small workshop in which the right hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris Leamington—those observations ignited his interest in Skidmore) discussed. I was not aware of its being propulsion and ultimately led to his work in developing known as “the Exploratory”, but I did once visit it the jet engine. Few of us have those workshops or when it was known as At-Bristol. garages, or the courage, in the case of Baird, to conduct All those centres, as we have heard, provide the spark experiments in the kitchen or lounge. In fact, Baird’s that encourages young people to think about the world landlord threw him out of his rented property when he around them. I quote a particular individual who said, discovered what he was doing. 415WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 416WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres [Matt Western] the UK lose during the past decade a significant amount of its world-leading pharmaceutical manufacturing For all these reasons, having places to observe and capabilities—capabilities vital for drug and medicine appreciate the physical and scientific world is so important, development. And the failure has resulted in the north and that is why the value of centres of science and receiving less than half the life science investment per discovery cannot be overestimated. Some 15 years ago, head in the south of England, despite having great I visited the discovery centre—that was how it was known teaching hospitals and significant health inequalities. In —in Bristol. It was a triumph, appealing to young and the midlands, the investment is as low as £16 per person. old minds and demonstrating the fascination of physics This is not simply a question of geographic inequality; and the workings of the natural world. In total, the UK there is also inequity by gender and ethnicity. Presently, boasts a network of almost 60 science and discovery 65% of the STEM workforce are white males, and more centres, including science museums, science centres, directly the STEM workforce has a lower share of discovery centres and natural history and environment female workers than the rest of the workforce—27% centres. Rather impressively, some 19% of the UK versus 52%. It is therefore striking when we hear of population said that they had visited a science and those women who have broken through and excelled in discovery centre once or more in 2019, with 33% claiming their field, such as Professor Sarah Gilbert. Just the that they had visited a science museum. other day, we heard of the latest young woman engineer These centres do a terrific job in stimulating young of the year, Ella Podmore, who spends her days pushing minds, as so many hon. Members have commented. the boundaries working in material composites at McLaren. That is important, particularly in encouraging the uptake But they are sadly rare in the science sector, with of related subjects in our schools. I will just look at the women representing only 9% of people in non-medical statistics for England, if I may. The proportion of STEM careers. Elsewhere, BAME men are less likely to A-level students entering for any maths or science subject work in STEM than white men, yet we face a shortfall has increased from 35% in 2015-16 to 46% in 2019-20. of 173,000 STEM workers, costing the sector £1.5 billion That increase in interest is important if we are to build a year. on our established reputation, renowned around the This gap was highlighted last year by the all-party world—a reputation that underpins a science sector parliamentary group on diversity and inclusion in science, that is worth £63.5 billion and provides jobs in research technology, engineering and maths, which published a institutes and universities and in businesses of all sizes report following a 15-month inquiry on whether the across the country. education system and schools provide equal opportunities As my hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey and for students of all ages to learn STEM subjects in Wood Green (Catherine West) said, we have only to England. Its recommendations included the need for a look at the leadership of Dr Sarah Gilbert and her team Minister responsible for adjusting inequity in the education at Oxford University and its tie-up with AstraZeneca to system; STEM education that is more relevant to the understand how important this is and how vital it is lives of all young people; and greater action to address that we attract more women, and indeed black and teacher shortages in STEM subjects. We can therefore minority ethnic students, into the sector. understand why the centres that we have discussed The centres themselves are threatened, as so many today are so important. Members have said in the debate. According to a survey We must invest in a science future and not rely on this conducted by the UK Association for Science and Government’s science fiction, where promised research Discovery Centres last June on the impacts of the investment has been cut. We need to ensure that young pandemic, some 96% of science centres felt that they would people have the opportunities to be curious to discover not be able to cover costs at 30% capacity. Revenues are in the classroom. This is why Labour is more ambitious down by 50%, as my hon. Friend the Member for Halton than this Government. We would build on the UK’s mentioned. There are staff cuts across the board. In the science successes and ensure that we continue to be an case of the Eureka! centre, as my hon. Friend the innovation nation by spending 3% of our GDP on Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) said, the staff are research and development, because it is a no-brainer for down by one third. our economy. The financial uncertainty was underlined by the The Campaign for Science and Engineering has shown Government’s announcement that these centres would that, for every £1 invested by the Government in research be largely excluded from the arts, heritage and culture and development, we get back 20p to 30p each and rescue package of £1.6 billion. In October 2020, the every year. Likewise, research by King’s College London UKASDC, chaired by the brilliant Professor Alice Roberts, and Brunel University London has shown that for every wrote to the Government and called for £25 million of £1 invested in medical research, we get back 25p to the emergency financial support for the sector. The letter, economy each and every year. The Labour party would signed by 160 professionals working in STEM, said that also seek to champion our universities as engines of the sector was at imminent risk; 62% of the facilities regional progress, strengthening regional economies by have said that they could cease to be a going concern in rebalancing R&D investment. We would address the the next 18 months. shortfall of STEM workers by helping to encourage Let me turn briefly to the wider issue of this country’s women and those from BAME backgrounds into STEM, recent record on science, where unfortunately the starting at school level, to ensure there is the pipeline of Government’s warm words have often not been matched talent we need for the future. Widening access is not just by deeds, and where their industrial strategy seems to the right thing to do for individuals; by tapping this have been mothballed. Indeed, the Chancellor of the talent, we will strengthen the sector by diversifying Exchequer did not even mention such a strategy in decision making and we will encourage continuous either of his Budget statements. That failure has seen lifelong learning and reskilling. 417WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 418WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres Labour has a long and proud history of supporting trips to the Eureka! centre. I completely agree with the science—judge us on our record. In the first 10 years in hon. Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) on how amazing government, we more than doubled the science budget. and inspirational that is. If we are to meet the challenges of the future, it is vital that we excite our young people in science and encourage Science is vital not only for the economic good of our them to be inventive in every sense. While STEM is country,but for the prospects of individuals.The Winchester important, I would add words of caution: we cannot all Science Centre and Planetarium, as my hon. Friend the be coders or scientists and we must also value our arts, Member for Winchester (Steve Brine) outlined, runs which are so important to us culturally and economically. innumerable fantastic initiatives, including workshops As Stephen Hawking said: “Be curious.” To that I would for primary schools, with computer program classes add: “Be inquisitive.” where children case use code to explore solutions to deep-sea noise pollution, getting the next generation not only able to progress skills in these areas, but excited 3.38 pm about saving the environment. As my hon. Friend pointed The Minister for Universities (Michelle Donelan): I out, they have had various initiatives to reach out to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede more than 1 million during the pandemic. I agree with and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) on securing this important my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton) debate. I want to reassure him, and other Members who that it is vital that these centres survive and thrive post have spoken today, that this Government are absolutely covid, including the Xplore! centre in her constituency. committed to having a strong STEM workforce and in fertilising the pipeline for that workforce. As a Back As hon. Members have explained today, the network Bencher, I ran the Wiltshire festival of engineering and of publicly accessible UK science and discovery centres manufacturing, which targeted primary schools to provide an important role in inspiring people of all ages encourage and inspire local children to engage in these to discover the vital role that science has played in areas, and to seed a thought about aspiring to a career creating the world we now live in, and how it can help to in those sectors. In my constituency we are not lucky create the world that we want to live in in future. They enough to have a science centre,but I encourage constituents also offer invaluable support to schools, colleges and to visit those in neighbouring areas, including the fantastic universities. We The Curious science museum in Bristol, which my The pandemic has challenged us all, and science and right hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris discovery centres have certainly not been immune. That Skidmore) rightly spoke extremely highly of. is why the Government supported all the science centres, It is absolutely imperative that we challenge the negative which are accredited museums, that applied for funding stereotypes that some young people might associate in England through the culture recovery fund. The with STEM, including any notion that these should be £1.57 billion support package is the largest ever one-off male-dominated careers. Some of the centres even have investment in UK culture, and we have continued to programmes to do just that, including the Catalyst support national museums and galleries with £100 million Science Discovery Centre in the constituency of the of targeted support for national cultural institutions. hon. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg), which holds That support was announced last year, and a further free careers events for years 8 and 9 to inspire the next £90 million was announced at the recent Budget. Also, generation. the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport It is also vital that we ensure that the education sponsors numerous museums that are also members of system feeds the skills shortage. On that point I disagree the ASDC. with the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington Visitor attractions,which are not categorised as museums, (Matt Western), whom I welcome to his post, because it will continue to benefit from the reduced rate of VAT, is far from the case that the Government have simply which the Government have temporarily applied to offered words and not deeds. In fact, we have spent the visitor attractions, as well as the pan-economic measures past 10 years seeking to do just that with the EBacc; such as the coronavirus job retention scheme, Government- reforms to further education, including the introduction backed loans and business rate deferrals. I am sure that of T-levels; higher technical qualifications; the internet my counterparts in DCMS will meet Members to discuss of things; and a drive to raise quality and investment in the cultural recovery fund in more detail, and I am sure STEM in higher education. That said, we recognise the BEIS will respond to the ideas illuminated by my right value and importance of working in partnership with hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood. I am more communities and our treasured community assets,especially than happy to co-ordinate and lead a meeting with any science discovery centres. Members who would find it useful. The Government were elected on a manifesto to level up. We absolutely believe that anyone, regardless of As I previously stated, covid-19 has had a profound their background, should have the opportunity to pursue impact on the country. Despite the progress that we a rewarding career in STEM. My hon. Friend the have made, research published by Engineering UK suggests Member for Runnymede and Weybridge and others that the pandemic has disrupted our efforts to widen pointed out how much of a role the science discovery the demographic and encourage more people to pursue centres play in that objective, especially in encouraging STEM subjects and occupations. Demand for jobs in those from disadvantaged backgrounds to discover a science, research, engineering and technology are going love of science and STEM more broadly. My hon. only in one direction. To meet the demand, it is crucial Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Paul Howell) put it that we not only attract the brightest and best in these jobs, correctly when he said that they can be a catalyst for but improve the diversity of our workforce to meet the aspiration. They not only bring science alive, but make demand for the skills that will underpin the UK economy’s it accessible for all. When I was at school, I had several recovery and our mission to build back better. 419WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 STEM Subjects: Science and 420WH Discovery Centres Discovery Centres [Michelle Donelan] confirm to my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge and other hon. Members that I shall In fact, engineering-related sectors contribute at least raise the role that those centres can play directly with £280 billion in gross value added to the UK economy, Sir Kevan Collins and the Minister for School Standards, some 20% in total. In 2018, however, EngineeringUK my right hon. Friend the Member for Bognor Regis and reported an annual shortfall of 59,000 engineering graduates Littlehampton (Nick Gibb). and technicians to fill core roles. In 2018-19, only 17% of I also look after opportunity areas,including Opportunity engineering and technology undergraduates were female, North East, and I pledge today that I will raise the meaning that the vast majority were male. That translates points made in this debate with the chairs, including the into the engineering workforce, where women represent value that those centres can play in raising attainment only 12% of those in engineering and technicians, and in STEM subjects and career aspirations. ethnic minorities represent just 8%. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede We know that studying engineering and technology and Weybridge and others that we must seize the degrees leads to increased employability and earning opportunity to do everything we can to encourage more potential. In 2015-16, the earnings of those who had people to study and take up careers in STEM, especially studied engineering and technology were 18% more, on where they are from under-represented groups. Science average, for first-time degree graduates in the first six and discovery centres should play an integral part in months of leaving university.The hon. Member for Glasgow that. They already inspire 5 million schoolchildren and North West (Carol Monaghan) was right to say that we their families with science every year. Their curriculum- must encourage the next generation to consider STEM- linked STEM workshops support more than 1.5 million related pathways, especially those in under-represented students. groups. I will end by urging all parents and schools to consider Science and discovery centres can play a key role in visiting their nearest centre, when restrictions allow. that but, as we know, remote teaching for children and Many are free and, as detailed by hon. Members today, young people has been substantially impacted during they can bring science to life in innovative and exciting the pandemic. It is crucial to ensure that our children ways. can catch up, so that no child is left behind as a result of the pandemic. To address that challenge, the Prime 3.49 pm Minister has committed to developing a long-term plan to help schools support pupils to catch up on their Dr Spencer: I thank the Minister for her speech and, learning over the course of the Parliament. in particular, for reaffirming the importance of science We have appointed Sir Kevan Collins as education and discovery centres, and for the points that she will recovery commissioner. He is engaging with parents, take forward. I would very much like to take her up on pupils and teachers in the development of this broader the offer of the meeting that she agreed to convene. approach,andisreviewinghowevidence-basedinterventions As an aside, I noted the comment of the hon. Member can be used. We have made available £1.7 billion funding for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) about the to support the education recovery, which began in June separation of arts and science. Personally, however, I 2020. Wehave announced a £1 billion catch-up programme, see that as a false dichotomy—what is Beethoven’s including a national tutoring programme and a catch-up “Moonlight Sonata” without the invention of a piano; premium for this academic year. In February 2021 we and what is rock and roll without the pickup and the committed a further £700 million to fund summer schools, amplifier? For so long, we have differentiated and created the expansion of the tutoring programme and a recovery artificial divisions, but at their core, arts and science are premium for the next academic year. one and key to us as human beings and to our society. We are also funding programmes to increase the I thank Members for their fantastic contributions to take-up of maths, computing and physics, and to support the debate. What came out for me and, I suspect, for the improved teaching in schools. That includes more than people watching at home who work in the science and £80 million for computer education, through the National discovery centres and who inspire and teach children Centre for Computing Education, and more than about science and discovery, was the personal stories £100 million for teaching for mastery programmes. The that so many Members brought out—bringing their Government also fund STEM learning to deliver a children to science and discovery centres. Hearing about national network of science-learning partnerships,providing the National Railway Museum, it is difficult not to high-quality continuing professional development for conjure up images of steam trains, with the smells and science teachers. seeing the pistons, thinking back over the changing As has been raised in debate, last year, for the first industrial age. Science is such a personal experience, time, girls made up more than half of the science and what makes science and discovery centres—what A-level entries, and there was an increase of more than makes them special—is not just the machines, the ants, 30% in girls’ entries to STEM A-levels in England since the space rockets or all the different bits of tech or kit to 2010. Unfortunately,despite our best efforts, girls continue be seen when there, but the people. It is about the to make up relatively small proportions of entries to volunteers and staff who work in the centres, who are maths, physics and computing at A-level. Weare therefore passionate about science, teaching, learning and innovation funding research programmes to investigate ways to —as passionate, or more passionate, as the Members tackle the gender balance in those subjects. who took part in the debate, who talked with such love I agree with hon. Members that science and discovery about their science and discovery centres and about the centres can play a part in the catch-up mission, by role of science in our society going forward. enhancing learning and reigniting that love of learning, The centres are so important to all of us, to our which may have waned while some have studied future and to our future workforce. They need to be predominantly online throughout the pandemic. I can open, and they need the financial support and backing 421WH STEM Subjects: Science and 24 MARCH 2021 422WH Discovery Centres to stay open. My hon. Friend the Member for Winchester Bakerloo Line Extension (Steve Brine) made such a strong point—the centres should not just be open; we have to ensure that kids get back into them, and as soon as possible. Particularly 4.5 pm over the next few months, that will be such a challenge— Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members inspiring the confidence and getting back into the centres, that there have been changes to normal practice in back learning and having the great experience and order to support the new hybrid arrangements. We do opportunities that they offer. not have anybody participating virtually in this debate. In wrapping up, I again thank Members for taking I remind Members who are here to clean their spaces part in this important debate. In particular, I thank before they leave the room. I also remind Members that everyone who works in science and discovery centres Mr Speaker has stated that masks should be worn in and everyone who inspires our next generation about Westminster Hall other than when you are speaking. science. Question put and agreed to. Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab): Resolved, I beg to move, That this House has considered Government funding for the That this House has considered the Science and Discovery Bakerloo Line extension. Centres’ support for education in science and careers in STEM subjects. It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair,Mrs Miller, for the second time—it might be the Minister’s first, but 3.53 pm it is my second. We are limited in time and very limited Sitting suspended. in number today, but it is quality that counts—I am speaking about the Minister, rather than myself. Many colleagues have sent apologies, including my neighbours, my hon. Friends the Members for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi) and for Lewisham, Deptford (Vicky Foxcroft) and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), the Mother of the House. Well they might send apologies, because the Bakerloo line extension was first mentioned in 1913, so our constituents have been waiting more than a century for this debate and for Bakerloo line trains to arrive a bit further than the Elephant and Castle, where they end currently. I start by thanking the Secretary of State for Transport and the wider Government ministerial team for the safeguarding work. The land above and below ground for the Bakerloo line extension has been protected. I am grateful that the Government acted swiftly on the safeguarding directions, in response to my question in December, and I was glad to see that published on 1 March. This is a decisive milestone for the project. It is important that the time and resources already spent on the extension are not wasted and that the Government remain committed to the next stages of development for this vital and hugely popular scheme to progress. I say it is hugely popular, because there is so much evidence to back that up. The Transport for London public consultation saw a tiny fraction—less than 3%—of the people who responded objecting to the extension. The public overwhelmingly see the benefits of the scheme, and more than 20,000 people have signed the “Back the Bakerloo” petition online, including many of my constituents. The project has the backing of the leaders, mayors, councillors and councils of five London boroughs. Southwark Labour has campaigned collectively on it for years. The planning and preparatory work is already well under way and delivery for the extension is embedded into the local development plan for the borough. In Southwark alone, it is estimated that the extension will help deliver more than 2 million square feet of employment space for a range of new work. It also features heavily in Lewisham’s local development plan. The BakerLewisham extension campaign was a brilliant success for Damien Egan, the mayor, and outgoing councillor Joe Dromey. It is a fantastic campaign with lots of public support. 423WH Bakerloo Line Extension24 MARCH 2021 Bakerloo Line Extension 424WH

[Neil Coyle] Elephant and Castle right out to Kent. That route takes the extension through some of the most disadvantaged I and eight other local MPs whose constituencies are parts of London. Parts of south Bermondsey and north directly affected by the extension have all been campaigning Walworth have 40% child poverty. There is a reason why together to see it delivered. It is a cross-party campaign. the Old Kent Road is the cheapest square on the classic The hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Sir Robert Monopoly board. Neill) is a prominent backer of the Bakerloo line extension The next steps to success are to reach a single preferred and, of course, the former Mayor of London, now the option, and all of it is contingent on funding. Since right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip 2016 Sadiq Khan has been an excellent Mayor for (Boris Johnson) and the Prime Minister, has backed the London. He has stabilised Transport for London’sfinances, campaign for some years. The Bakerloo line extension reduced the operating deficit by 71% and increased the formed a major part of his 2011 London plan and, cash balance by 30%, while delivering the Hopper fare, since then, it has been embedded in successive London which has benefitted more than 200,000 people on plans, highlighted as an integral piece of infrastructure routes through Southwark. All Londoners—millions of within the economic, environmental, transport and social people on routine journeys—have benefitted from the framework for the development of all London. Indeed, fares freeze, but we cannot ignore the last year, which has in 2015, the Prime Minister said: been devastating for Transport for London’s finances. “The extension of the Bakerloo line will provide a vital new The pandemic has meant a 90% drop in passenger transport link for people living and working in south London…We’re revenue in 2020, meaning a loss of £2.4 billion in fares now firmly on track to get construction on this major project and rendering Londoners entirely reliant on Government underway by 2024 and have it up and running by 2030.” for funding for future capital projects of this scale and He now holds the key to unlocking all the benefits for smaller projects. I hope that we are not going to see that the extension could bring. He flagged up today at the Minister try to pass the buck for these costs on to Prime Minister’s questions that the Government are Londoners. In his letter to the Mayor of London in spending £640 billion on national infrastructure—an October, the Transport Secretary acknowledged that amazing sum. I am genuinely impressed. It is good to Transport for London will need support for capital see infrastructure coming forward. We need nuclear projects even when Transport for London becomes investment, we need other infrastructure investment self-sufficient in running costs again under Heidi Alexander’s and the Bakerloo line extension should form part of excellent leadership. That self-sufficiency target is set that infrastructure development. for 2023-24. One reason the extension is so universally popular is The Government could help by returning the annual all the benefits it would bring. It is not just about operating grant to the capital city. The last payment in transport—it is about regeneration, the delivery of housing, 2015 was £700 million, before the previous Mayor gave jobs and the post-covid economic recovery, and tackling away the operating grant, which was perhaps a foretaste the climate emergency. Of course, it does have transport of his negotiating abilities. That money would go a long benefits. Improved transport links and reduced journey way to meeting the projected costs for the extension times would benefit my constituents and hundreds of from Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, which are thousands of people across south London. It would estimated to be between £4.7 billion and £7.9 billion. bring capacity for 87,000 more people every morning in The range of cost reflects the contingency and uncertainty peak time. It would mean that a tube train every two to that a major capital scheme like this requires at this three minutes between Lewisham and central London is stage of the development. possible. No other major city operates on this system. In Paris It has environmental benefits.The Bakerloo line extension and New York fares account for just 38% of revenue, in would help reduce air pollution and congestion on the Hong Kong for 37% and in Singapore for 21%. Londoners roads by increasing capacity on the tube and taking are being asked to shoulder far more cost for their many journeys off our congested streets, including the underground system than people in any other major Old Kent Road. Improving and expanding public transport city. That system, built on uncertainty, has been added options is also central to the Government’s plans to to in the last year by covid. On Monday, the Government tackle the climate emergency and meet our carbon agreed another short extension to the Transport for emission targets, a priority that is particularly significant London funding deal, on the same conditions. This given that COP26 is rapidly approaching in Glasgow temporary extension will now end in May, with a new later this year. agreement needing to be negotiated by 18 May, following It also has significant housing benefits. The extension the mayoral election. of the Bakerloo line from Elephant and Castle would The Minister may wonder why the Government’s mean 20,000 new homes for the Old Kent Road alone, candidate is languishing in the polls in London. It is including7,000genuinelyaffordablehomesinmyconstituency partly because Londoners are not stupid. They have and that of my right hon. and learned Friend the Member seen the contrast between being punished with a deal for for Camberwell and Peckham. Across London, it would Transport for London, which has restrictions and a cost mean the development of 110,000 new homes, which imposed for Londoners that we did not see in any other would be a significant contribution to the Government’s deal for any other part of the country, and rail companies commitment to deliver 300,000 new homes a year. This being provided with £3.5 billion of public money with is and should be seen as a partnership between national no conditions. Londoners were told to stay at home to Government and the devolved authority in London. protect the NHS. They did their bit and they are losing Of course, it brings many jobs: 10,000 new jobs in the out through a deal with terrible conditions attached. immediate area of the extension, but 130,000 jobs across As part of the current negotiations, Transport for London. It would create a new work space along the London is making the case for continued funding to whole route, generating a growth corridor from the close out the current stage of design, to protect the 425WH Bakerloo Line Extension24 MARCH 2021 Bakerloo Line Extension 426WH

Bakerloo line extension safeguard from challenge, and communities can work together to achieve their ambitions to develop a single preferred option that would be of having prosperous, safe and vibrant places to live. shovel-ready. That would put the scheme in a position Indeed, it has never been more important than in the where it would be ready to be taken forward to planning, period of recovery from the covid-19 pandemic. if and when funding was identified. Transport for London The proposals for the Bakerloo line would extend the hopes to provide an update on that by the end of May, route from Elephant and Castle to Lewisham. Transport by which point the next funding deal should have been for London’s plans include new stations along the A2 agreed. Old Kent Road and at New Cross Gate, a new Bakerloo We obviously cannot ignore the context; we all know line ticket hall at Elephant and Castle, and an improved what has been happening. The vaccine is providing a jab interchange at Lewisham station. It is important to in people’sarms, but the whole country needs an economic note, as I know the hon. Gentleman already understands, shot in the arm. We need an economic boost and the that this is a Transport for London project and Transport Bakerloo line extension would deliver just that for the for London is devolved, so this is the responsibility of whole country. By supporting London, the Minister the Mayor of London and Transport for London, whose would support the whole country. When London is responsibilities include capital projects. Therefore, it is operating at full capacity, it delivers a net contribution for the Mayor of London and Transport for London to to the Treasury of £39 billion a year. The Government assess the merits of capital projects and make decisions need that money coming in and Londoners want to get on investment. back to work. The Bakerloo line extension helps to As the hon. Gentleman has discussed already, the rebuild post-covid, and by investing in London’s Secretary of State has recently issued safeguarding directions infrastructure the Minister and the Government would for the proposed extension route. Safeguarding does support regeneration across the United Kingdom. not represent a Government commitment to fund the I will give just one example of how the Bakerloo line project, but it does ensure that the route is protected for extension would contribute to the national recovery. the future, because without safeguarding the project’s The Prime Minister has visited the Siemens plant in costs could become significantly higher over time. Goole up in Yorkshire—more than once, I think. That Safeguarding directions have been issued because the site is the expected place of manufacture of the trains Government agree with the hon. Gentleman that the and carriages that would run on the Bakerloo line in Bakerloo line extension has the potential to unlock London. Investing in the Bakerloo line extension provides housing and economic growth. Therefore, it is key to a boost for London, but it also provides jobs in Goole. understanding the opportunities that the Bakerloo line Of course, the Government talk a lot about levelling extension, and other projects in London and across the up. Levelling up does not just apply outside London. country, present for our goals on housing supply. Ministers must not just talk the talk; they need to walk The hon. Gentleman will know that Transport for the walk, or better still take the tube, perhaps. I hope London is yet to secure the funding required to progress that the Minister will agree that the Bakerloo line this project and Transport for London’s commissioner extension is an excellent example of levelling up. I invite confirmed to the London Assembly earlier this month her to come and see these sites, to see where these jobs, that the extension is on hold for the time being. Webelieve housing and transport infrastructure would be. I hope that safeguarding has provided Transport for London that if she made such a visit, I and others who support with the opportunity to take the extension forward at a the extension would be able to prove to her that the best future time. way to level up is to get the Bakerloo line extension I will use this opportunity to briefly reflect on the track down. That would be a fantastic opportunity for broader context in which we are having today’s debate. her to see. The hon. Gentleman has referred to some of these In conclusion, I look forward to hearing how the matters. Our focus right now remains on responding to Minister will ensure that her Government meet their the pandemic, and there are significant challenges facing housing targets, environmental agenda, infrastructure the whole country, including the transport network. In plans and levelling up agenda, and I also look forward London’scase, the Department for Transport is continuing to hearing how we will work together to deliver this to work closely with Transport for London to ensure project to boost the national economy. that the transport network can support the restart and 4.16 pm recovery of the city. The Government have already The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport shown a significant commitment to supporting London’s (Rachel Maclean): It is a great pleasure to serve under transport network and Londoners throughout the your chairmanship for the first time, Mrs Miller. I am pandemic, including more than £3 billion in emergency extremely grateful to the hon. Member for Bermondsey funding since May 2020. That is a significant amount of and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) for securing this debate money that has been provided to help Transport for on Government funding for the Bakerloo line extension. London keep the essential networks going. On Monday, I agree with him—I think the debate is definitely about the Government agreed an extension to the current quality. He has demonstrated that in his remarks, in Transport for London funding deal, which had been which he set out his passionate case to represent his due to expire on 31 March. constituents. I commend him on that wholeheartedly. Neil Coyle: I am keen to explore the future funding Of the 270 operational London Underground stations, specifically. from the, Point 5 of the letter from October only 29 are in south London. As I am sure the hon. from the Transport Secretary to the Mayor of London Gentleman already knows, there are more underground says: stations in Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire than “In relation to any long-term plans, HMG define financial there are in his home borough of Southwark. We agree sustainability as TfL’s ability to cover, from sources available to it that transport infrastructure is critical in ensuring that (including, the consideration of potential new sources of income 427WH Bakerloo Line Extension 24 MARCH 2021 428WH

[Neil Coyle] UK Rare Diseases Framework but excluding government grant): operating expenditure; capital 4.50 pm renewals; servicing and repaying debt; and capital enhancements. For major capital enhancements and major renewals (i.e. replacement Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members of life expired rolling stock and signalling), TfL would not be that there have been some changes to the normal practice, expected to solely finance these from operating incomes; as is in order to support the new hybrid arrangements. Timings consistent with other transport authorities.” of debates have been amended to allow technical It is about that next step, rather than the immediate arrangements to be made for the next debate, so there temporary measures to carry the capital through the will also be suspensions between each debate. I remind covid crisis. I am keen for the Minister to move on to Members participating physically and virtually that they that agenda, if possible. must arrive at the start of the debate in Westminster Hall. Members are expected to remain for the entire Rachel Maclean: I fully understand the hon. Gentleman’s debate. I must also remind Members participating virtually desire to move on to the future of the project. What I that they are visible at all times, both to each other and wish to say on that point is that, obviously,the Government to us here in the Boothroyd Room. If Members attending will be working very closely with Transport for London virtually have any technical problems, they should email on the future funding settlement, so that we can continue Westminster Hall Clerks. Members should clean their to ensure the sustainability of the transport network. I spaces before they use them and before they leave the very much encourage him to continue his work and his room. I remind Members that Mr Speaker has stated communications with my noble Friend in the other that masks should be worn in Westminster Hall except, place, Baroness Vere, who is intimately involved in the of course, when speaking. discussions, and with the Secretary of State for Transport, because the Government absolutely wish to ensure that There are no more notes from me but a reminder that there is a sustainable transport network for London and we shall move to winding-up speeches at about 5.28, the whole country. and after the first speech I am afraid I shall have to put in a formal three-minute time limit, because it is a heavily I thank the hon. Gentleman for securing the debate subscribed debate. on this topic; it is a very important matter. The issuing of safeguarding directions has protected the proposed 4.51 pm route for the future, which is a very positive step. It provides Transport for London with more time to put Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab): I beg to move, together a funding package without the cost of the That this House has considered the implementation of the UK project significantly escalating. That is a very important Rare Diseases Framework. step in the right direction. I also encourage the hon. It is a pleasure to serve under you in the Chair, Mrs Gentleman to aim his questions about funding at the Miller. About one in 17 people will during their lifetime Mayor of London and Transport for London following be affected by a rare condition. Around 70% of such May’s election. conditions begin in childhood and are lifelong. Genetic Question put and agreed to. Alliance UK estimates that rare diseases are responsible for about one third of infant mortality in the UK. 4.23 pm Those living with a rare condition can face significant Sitting suspended. challenges in getting a diagnosis,getting access to treatment, and receiving co-ordinated care, as well as challenges with employment, education, social life and mental health. The UK rare diseases framework, which was published earlier this year, presents an opportunity for the rare diseases community. There is hope that the framework will enable people living with rare, genetic and undiagnosed conditions to get access to the appropriate care and the treatment that they need to manage their condition. However, we have been here before. In 2013 the UK strategy for rare diseases was published, with the promise that no one would be left behind just because they have a rare disease. When the strategy expired last year, people living with rare conditions were confused and disappointed. Although the strategy had made some progress, it had failed in its commitment to transform the lives of all those affected by rare conditions. A major factor that prevented the true potential of the strategy from being realised is the long delay from the Department of Health and Social Care or NHS England in developing and publishing an implementation plan. The strategy was published in 2013, yet an implementation plan for England was delivered only in 2018. Not only did that prevent progress in England; it also stymied developments in the devolved nations, which were unable to collaborate effectively without a plan. As yet, the Department of Health and Social Care 429WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 430WH and NHS England have not published the outcome of how many people have been waiting for five, 10 or the strategy. If we are to learn from the mistakes of the 20 years for a diagnosis from the NHS? Will we track past, we must evaluate what happened with the strategy. such people? Will we monitor whether everyone is receiving Will the Minister comment on whether the Department equitably the tests to which they are entitled? Will the of Health and Social Care and NHS England will in Minister please comment on that? fact report on the outcome of the strategy? The second priority of the framework is to increase The UK rare diseases framework is the beginning of awareness among healthcare professionals of rare diseases. a new chapter. For it to be implemented effectively, the People affected by rare conditions meet many healthcare Department of Health and Social Care and NHS England professionals on their journey to find a diagnosis, and must work together to deliver a timely and comprehensive beyond while they live with their rare condition. For action plan. That action plan is needed now more than some it is a positive experience; for others it can be ever because the rare diseases community has been particularly challenging. This year, Genetic Alliance waiting long enough for improvements in care and UK received an inquiry from an individual whose GP treatment. The pandemic continues to bear heavily on had told them that they could not possibly have the the health and wellbeing of those with rare conditions, genetic condition that they were concerned about, because who are among the most vulnerable to covid-19 impacts. it is just too rare. Any individual clinician cannot be There is a gap in detailed policy to drive improvements expected to know about all rare conditions, but they can for people living with rare conditions in the UK, until be empowered to understand how to handle such cases. action plans are published to implement the framework. The framework does not address in detail how it will The framework covers four key areas and seeks to increase awareness among healthcare professionals of make progress. The first priority is to help patients to rare diseases. It does not provide details of how education get a final diagnosis more quickly. On average, rare programmes will be delivered, nor does it explain in disease patients wait four years to receive a diagnosis, detail how success will be measured. What measurements with some waiting over 20 years. For people with a rare will be put in place to ensure learning for healthcare condition, it is often a long journey, frequently with professionals in the NHS? Will there be a survey of several misdiagnoses, until a final correct diagnosis is experience now and in the future, to demonstrate reached. Often this journey is labelled as the diagnostic improvement? Will that be included in the English action odyssey.The framework describes what is already happening plan? to improve diagnosis, but it does not talk about improving When clinicians do not engage with an individual the screening service for people living with rare conditions. who has a rare condition in order to understand their The UK National Screening Committee currently screens diagnosis and ensure that care is compatible with their for just nine conditions using the heel-prick test. That needs, it can and has led to life-threatening situations. compares poorly with many European countries: Italy One way to prevent such situations from occurring is by and Iceland screen for more than 40, Poland and the providing rare disease patients with alert cards, which Netherlandsscreenformorethan30,andHungary,Slovakia include information about the patient’s rare disease and and many others screen for more than 20 conditions. any particular aspects of the treatment of that rare Earlier this month, the National Institute for Health disease that need to be taken into account in providing and Care Excellence approved access to a new gene care. In January 2018, NHS England promised that all therapy for spinal muscular atrophy. NICE said that for rare disease patients in England would have access to a some babies who are diagnosed before they have symptoms, rare disease alert card. May I request an update from it might come close to being a cure. For it to have the the Minister on alert cards specifically? How many rare chance to be a cure, however, we need to identify the disease patients have been issued with an alert card? babies before they begin to be affected by the condition. The third priority of the framework is to improve Todo that, we need newborn screening for spinal muscular co-ordination of care. Many patients have numerous atrophy.Weneed joined-up thinking that allows a screening professionals involved in their care and therefore it is programme to be developed in parallel as such medicines essential that there be co-ordination and communication come over the horizon. Will the Minister confirm whether among healthcare professionals, their patient and the we will increase the scope of newborn screening in the family. The framework does not address how care UK or make changes to the UK National Screening co-ordination can be mainstreamed within rare condition Committee’s processes? care in the NHS. There are no details as to how the The framework also talks about Genome UK and the challenges of ensuring continuity of care during the NHS genomic medicine service helping patients to get a complex transition between rare condition services might final diagnosis more quickly, but it does not talk about be addressed. Again, how will success be measured? how patients will access such services. The framework Will there be outcome measures demonstrating increased recognises that people with non-genetic conditions needs care co-ordination services in the NHS, and will there to be diagnosed through other means. We will need an be a survey now and in the future to demonstrate action plan that sets out a realistic way to improve this, improvement in the experience of people living with rare and we will need to demonstrate that the system becomes and genetic conditions? better at diagnosing everyone, not just those who are The final priority of the framework is to improve found through genome sequencing. Can the Minister access to specialist care, treatment and drugs. Only confirm that that will be done? about 200 medicines are specifically available for rare Moreover, the framework does not talk about what conditions, and fewer than that are available on the happens after a diagnosis is delivered. Wecannot abandon NHS now. Small patient populations and accelerated people after we have given them their diagnosis. My market authorisation mean that rare disease medicines final point on diagnosis is this: what about the people can rarely have sufficient evidence to meet the expectations who are stuck on the diagnostic odyssey? Do we know of health technology assessors in the UK. Few life-saving 431WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 432WH

[Liz Twist] Huge progress has already been made, particularly in terms of understanding which genes cause the disease treatments are reaching rare disease patients, which and of subsequent pioneering gene therapy trials such means not only that the UK is falling behind other as that conducted by Professor Chris McDermott at the European nations in terms of treatments available, but University of Sheffield. that patients and their families can be left in the dark, It would be disappointing, when scientific advancements unsure of what is next. are at their most promising, to see Government funding We have extremely frustrating situations such as that for MND research plateauing. Although charities have faced by families affected by phenylketonuria, who, picked up the shortfall, this source of funding is under 12 years after marketing authorisation for the drug, are more pressure than ever because of covid-19. In this not receiving access to Kuvan, despite the Prime Minister’s context, the Government’s recent announcement of the promises to work on the issue and the treatment being rare diseases framework provides a welcome and much available in 24 European countries. Again, the framework needed opportunity. It is encouraging that one of the does not talk about how success will be measured. Will framework’s key priorities is to improve access to specialist there be outcome measures demonstrating increased care, treatment and drugs, and that one of its underpinning access to specialist care, treatments and medicines, and themes is to encourage and support pioneering research will there be a survey now? Will the Minister comment into rare diseases. Key to successfully delivering this on that? will, in part, be the completion of ongoing NICE My final point is this. Understanding the experiences methods and a process review changing how we access and preferences of people affected by rare conditions is new medicines. It will also come from close partnership fundamental to providing care and treatment and to between the devolved Administrations and the voluntary ensuring that support, information and services are sector, which is already working to support pioneering available and targeted to meet needs. The national research. conversation on rare diseases on which the UK rare In the same vein, MND Scotland and My Name’5 diseases framework is based does not reflect the whole Doddie Foundation are asking the Government to consider rare disease community. It is important that the English investing £50 million over five years to establish a action plan is created in consultation with a more virtual MND research institute. It would be designed to diverse and inclusive group, so that we can understand create a world-leading drug discovery and development and meet the needs of all those affected by rare, genetic programme, to establish a sustainable MND trials platform and undiagnosed conditions. and to implement a rigorous clinical research programme. I want to finish by talking about something that The institute and the funding would help the national happened yesterday.I want to mention Norman Clayton, and local delivery of this new framework’s key aims of who watched Prime Minister’s questions last week and improving the lives of those living with MND and heard me ask my question on access to Kuvan for those embedding personalised care in the UK healthcare system. with PKU. Norman is 91 years old and was moved, I thank the Government for the support they have after all these years, to contact NSPKU—the National already shown, and I look to them for more regarding Society for Phenylketonuria—and tell us about his daughter, the research institute. Denise, who was born in 1958, before newborn screening, and whose PKU was diagnosed late. Despite the best 5.6 pm efforts of Norman and his wife, Denise’s development Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab) [V]: It is a suffered and she disappeared off the radar of the NHS. great honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs She still requires a huge amount of care, because her Miller. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for condition was not recognised from birth. That story Blaydon (Liz Twist) on securing the debate and on her speaks to so many rare diseases and to the need to get excellent opening speech. The rare diseases framework the implementation of this framework right. is welcome, but in order to deliver on the vision it is Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): We now move to a important to reflect on the experiences of those with three-minute time limit, to help as many hon. Members rare diseases over the past year. as possible to participate. I chair the all-party parliamentary group on muscular dystrophy, and last month our meeting brought together 5.3 pm people living with muscle-wasting conditions, leading health professionals and charities representing relatives Andrew Lewer (Northampton South) (Con) [V]: It is to discuss the impact of covid-19. It came after a a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Miller. month-long survey conducted by Muscular Dystrophy I congratulate the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist) UK to assess the impact of covid-19 on people living on securing this important debate. with muscle-wasting conditions and their families and Motor neurone disease is a devastating and rapidly the effect on accessing healthcare services. There were progressing neurological condition that leaves individuals over 400 survey responses and they were very concerning. unable to walk, talk, eat and, ultimately, breathe. It is a The comments made at our APPG meeting backed up rare disease in this sense, because sadly one third of many of the survey’s findings. people die within one year of receiving their diagnosis, We heard that the delivery of standard care had been but at present one in 300 people will develop it in their put on hold and essential services were interrupted, and lifetime. that it was proving very difficult to regain muscle strength There is currently no cure, but as chairman of the after losing six months to a year of physiotherapy. all-party parliamentary group on motor neurone disease, Some had experienced diagnostic tests being put on I have had the privilege of hearing about the pioneering hold as resources were diverted because of the pandemic research that is under way to find effective treatments. and a number of clinical trials were also halted. Worryingly, 433WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 434WH the physical and mental impact of shielding has left NICE has published its preliminary assessment on many people reluctant to go out even to hospitals when the use of Kuvan, recommending its use for children up restrictions are relaxed. to the age of 18, which is welcome, but not necessarily Our APPG also considered what might happen when its use for people over 18. I say to the Minister that this restrictions are relaxed and we return to some kind of is a lifelong condition and therefore we need lifelong normal life. Infrastructure challenges for service provision treatment of Kuvan on the NHS. Anything less than still remain, and there is concern about if and when that will cause enormous distress for those young people staff and resources redirected to covid-19 will return to with PKU who are making the transition to adulthood, neuromuscular services. Virtual clinics have had a positive so I urge the Government to consider placing Kuvan impact and there are benefits to be taken forward of within the framework as a priority for the future. continuing these for some people, especially taking into account issues such as long travel times. However, not 5.12 pm everything can be assessed or picked up virtually.Routine Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: It is a pleasure face-to-face appointments are still critical. to serve under you as Chair, Mrs Miller. I was not aware Members of the APPG are always grateful for the of the rare metabolic disorder phenylketonuria, or PKU, support of our secretariat Muscular Dystrophy UK, until my constituents with PKU explained that it prevents medical professionals and those with muscle-wasting them from metabolising phenylalanine, or PHE, which conditions. On their behalf, I ask the Minister to outline is an amino acid in protein foods. The standard treatment how the action plans for the framework will learn from is a low-PHE diet, removing almost all natural protein patient and health professional experiences during the and replacing it with prescribed medical dietary proteins pandemic, and will also shape the priorities for accessing to ensure adequate nutrition. essential specialist care and mental health support. The PKU dietary regime is very complex, very restrictive and very difficult to manage. I joined the all-party 5.9 pm parliamentary group on phenylketonuria, which was formed by my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con) [V]: I thank the (Liz Twist), and became vice-chair. I congratulate her hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist) for securing this on securing another PKU debate today. The National important debate on the challenges faced by people Society for Phenylketonuria, a charity set up in 1973, is living with rare diseases. I am delighted to have the remarkable. It has no premises and no full-time staff, opportunity to speak about phenylketonuria, which has but is run by wonderful volunteers with personal experience been mentioned already, and to put on record my own of PKU. concerns about access to treatment for this condition, Managing PKU is extremely demanding. Every meal, including the drug Kuvan. snack and drink must be planned in advance. People I am raising this issue on behalf of constituents who with PKU and their families spend on average 19 hours have been in contact with me about it. In particular, I every week preparing their diet. Many of them have am grateful to Leanne Barnett for meeting me to discuss applied for personal independence payment, which is the impact that PKU continues to have on her twin assessed on the basis of how much help is needed with daughters, who were born with the condition, and on ordinary daily living activities, one of which is managing the family as a whole. I really appreciated gaining an therapy or monitoring a health condition. understanding of the extraordinary challenges of living The Department for Work and Pensions has not with rare diseases such as PKU, and I believe that accepted that the PKU diet is a therapy, so many Leanne’s case illustrates the problems that many people people, including my constituents, have been denied the face, which are unacceptable problems in a modern society. daily living activities component of PIP, even though I will not go into the details of the condition, but we they need hours of help from relatives every week to know that the main treatment available at the moment manage their diet. However, in 2020 a tribunal decided is a strict low-protein diet. For anyone who is a parent that the PKU diet qualifies as a therapy, following a of young children, babies or toddlers, managing any legal challenge by a 21-year-old man whose PIP application diet is challenging, but managing a diet with low protein had been refused by the DWP. He appealed to the is extremely difficult. Everyday life becomes filled with first-tier tribunal, but it agreed with the DWP that his anxiety, putting incredible strain upon the parents, who PKU diet was not a therapy. He appealed again to the know that one mistake might cost the child their life or upper tribunal, which found that the first-tier tribunal lead to brain damage. Leanne explained to me that should re-examine his case, because the reasons it gave “PKU life can feel extremely isolating as the condition is so for reaching its decision were not adequate. The case rare. It’s exhausting having to explain the condition and even then re-examination found that his PKU diet was a therapy most people think it’s just a food allergy”. under PIP criteria, because he needed more than 14 hours She told me that managing her daughters’ diets is of help per week and therefore met the criteria to “difficult and time consuming to manage and almost impossible qualify for PIP, and should receive £87.65 per week. to adhere to well enough for optimum treatment”. That is good news, but it remains to be seen whether She explained that, as her daughters grew, she would this will govern future DWP decisions about PKU. I have to sincerely hope that it will, to help the brave PKU “measure and monitor everything they eat, restricting the amount sufferers who struggle every minute of every day to live of natural protein they consume, which was really…stressful”. with such a challenging rare metabolic disorder. This dietary treatment can also be incredibly costly for families, particularly if they are on a low income, which 5.15 pm is a real barrier. The drug Kuvan, having been licensed Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to to treat PKU back in 2008, has not been available to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Miller. I congratulate patients in the UK, except in limited circumstances. the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist) on securing 435WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 436WH

[Tom Randall] of a Greggs sausage roll, PKU patients cannot even grab a healthy salad or a vegetarian sandwich. The disease the debate. It is a welcome debate and an opportunity to requires an exacting regulation of food intake. discuss those rare diseases that, by their very nature, do I met Liam, a 20-year-old constituent who has PKU. not have the large advocacy organisations to speak The first thing that struck me was Liam’s mother bringing about them. This week I received a mailshot from one him bags of special ingredients. Careful planning is of the UK’s leading cancer charities. While that is a essential. Everything is homemade and all the ingredients welcome and worthwhile effort, rare diseases—those have to be measured out, for Liam’s safety. Preparing that affect fewer than one in 2,000 people—do not have the food is a full-time job. Liam has never had Kuvan those resources and it is important that we speak about and is in his second year at university studying policing. them. He is planned and worked hard to contribute to society, I welcome the publication of “The UK Rare Diseases but he fears that without Kuvan this would not happen. Framework”, which has four priorities. I will speak There are hundreds like Liam who want to make a briefly on priorities 2 and 4. Priority 2 is to increase positive contribution. I asked him for his thoughts on awareness of rare diseases among healthcare professionals, the decision. He said: which I think is crucial. I am co-chair of the all-party “The overwhelming feeling right now is one of betrayal. We parliamentary group on axial spondyloarthritis, which have spent 12 years fighting for this drug, seeing it within our is not a rare disease—it affects one in 200 people—but sights, our hopes finally rising at the prospect of receiving such a the eight-year delay in diagnosis has been attributed, in life changing drug, only to have it snatched from us.” part, to a lack of knowledge by healthcare professionals. I ask BioMarin and the Government to put people I fully support any increased awareness of rare diseases. like Liam at the forefront of their decision making. Priority 4 is to improve access to specialist care, People are being denied the quality of life that is possible treatments and drugs. As others have said, I have seen and that they deserve. that myself with phenylketonuria, which I had not heard of until I met the parents of Hurley, one of my youngest 5.20 pm constituents. They came to see me to discuss Hurley’s Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure condition. PKU affects fewer than one in 10,000 babies. to serve under your chairmanship today, Mrs Miller. It As we have heard, it means that the body cannot process was also a pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for protein, which results in a severely restricted diet. Blaydon (Liz Twist), who opened this evening’s debate. The drug Kuvan has been available but was not She has been a tireless campaigner for those who suffer widely licensed despite promising results. I welcome the from phenylketonuria and I congratulate her on securing news that Kuvan is now available, but it is not available this important debate. for over-18s. That causes understandable concerns not One in 10,000 babies across the United Kingdom is only for adults, but for those in their late teens who are born with PKU. That rare inherited disease means approaching a point when their treatment will become that individuals cannot break down phenylalanine. If unavailable. I will add my name to those calling for the the condition is untreated, it can lead to damage of the wider licensing of Kuvan for those with PKU. brain and nervous system. Sadly, a number of my This is a welcome debate and there is a responsibility constituents suffer from the disorder, including, as I on all MPs to speak up for their constituents who have learned today,a three-month-old infant. I thank Samantha rare diseases, to make their case heard. I look forward Parker, Kelly Thompson and Amy Duston, who suffer to continuing to do so with colleagues. with PKU or have a child who does, for their engagement with me. Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): Order. After the next It was a bittersweet moment last month when NICE speaker, I will move to a two-minute time limit, in an released its draft recommendation that, following discussion attempt to get more speakers in. with the manufacturer of Kuvan, it could be used for children up to the age of 18. It was bittersweet because 5.18 pm it means that as those children turn 18 they will face a cliff edge in their treatment. I fear that NICE has not Ms Marie Rimmer (St Helens South and Whiston) fully considered the problem of an 18-year-old abruptly (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, stopping treatment with Kuvan. The decision will lead Mrs Miller. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member to further difficulties down the line, and it does not for Blaydon (Liz Twist). address the treatment of adults with PKU. PKU is a disease that leaves people unable to break I am hopeful on three counts for my constituents. I down protein. It can lead to severe brain damage. am optimistic that children will soon be able to access Kuvan is a life-changing drug that can help people cope that life-changing drug, that NICE will reconsider the with PKU.NICE’sdecision to offer Kuvan only to patients use of Kuvan for adults, and that as the exclusivity of up to the age of 18 is wrong. There is no miraculous Kuvan to BioMarin comes to an end it will become cure for PKU when patients turn 18. cheaper and more cost-effective as a treatment for all The transition to adulthood is a tough time already; who suffer from PKU. 18-year-olds are moving away from school and often away from parental support, whether attending university, 5.22 pm beginning an apprenticeship or starting a career. It is a difficult time. NICE’s decision strips young people of a Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab) [V]: I, too, life-changing drug when they are at their most vulnerable. congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon Giving patients Kuvan and then taking it away turns an (Liz Twist) on securing the debate. I chair the all-party 18th birthday into a day of dread. Never mind the joy parliamentary group on life sciences and want to raise a 437WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 438WH couple of wider points. I am grateful to the Association higher threshold for cost-effectiveness. If they do not of the British Pharmaceutical Industry and the UK meet the HST criteria, new technologies are stifled. Bioindustry Association for advice. NICE is risking needlessly complex and convoluted We are all familiar with the figure of Sir John Bell on criteria that will not allow for transparency on why our television screens, but in the current circumstances particular medicines are put into the programme. I would the Minister tell us a little about the status of the hope it will register the concerns expressed by the ABPI life sciences industrial strategy and sector deal? It seems and others. that the industrial strategy has gone by the wayside. The Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory What is going on? Will she also tell us how the various Agency is talking about new pathways to licences. Such initiatives, including the NICE methods review, the work needs to be joined up and supported by NICE’s innovative medicines fund and the recently published processes. Early engagement is positive, but NICE must commercial medicines framework will work together to avoid premature decisions, including about the commercial support access to medicines for rare diseases? aspects and pricing. There has been a long-running issue around the NICE process review in relation to the single technology Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): To ensure that we appraisal programme, which many feel is not very suited can get all Members in, the Minister has very generously to the specialised medicines world. It led to the highly given some of her time, so I hope that I can bring in specialised technologies programme, but there is a every Member on the list. continuing gap between the two, and perhaps she can shed some light on that. 5.26 pm Professor Lucy Raymond was professor of medical Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): It genetics and neurodevelopment at the department of is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Miller. medical genetics in Cambridge, and has welcomed I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon me on Rare Disease Day in previous years. She made a (Liz Twist) on securing this important debate and on couple of important points, saying that despite the her excellent opening speech. welcome work done by the 100,000 genomes project at As chair of the all-party parliamentary group on such places as the Wellcome Sanger Institute, there are sickle cell and thalassaemia, I know that this subject is still long delays, and testing is limited by resources and of great interest to people with thalassaemia. I will NHS England funding. Secondly, there is the question focus my speech on one of the four high-level priorities of making sure there is sufficient access to clinical trials. of the framework: improved access to specialist care, Professor Raymond suggests that as we have a limited treatment and medicine. People with rare diseases say number of nationally funded genomic laboratories, it that the tantalising prospect that one day there will be a could be possible to introduce a statutory obligation to cure for the rare diseases affecting them is something notify, which would produce a bigger group for clinical that gives them hope and huge motivation, and that trials. drives them to campaign passionately for the development, Finally, on the question of our relationship with the and then approval, of that medicine or therapy. When it European Union, what progress has been made on comes to assessing the effectiveness of such drugs or developing a rare disease trial protocol? treatments for rare diseases, however, the approach taken by NICE leaves a lot to be desired. 5.24 pm Recently, NICE gave a provisional negative appraisal Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to a ground-breaking gene therapy treatment that would to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Miller. I draw have eliminated the need for the chronic treatment of attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ many people with a severe form of thalassaemia. One of Financial Interests. the contentious issues with NICE’s assessment has been the inflexibility of the arbitrary discount rates. The NICE was established to determine cost-effectiveness, small number of people with rare diseases means that and it quickly became the best at this in the world. there is often insufficient evidence available to satisfy Given the pandemic, the importance of the life sciences NICE’s assessors. I note that NICE has undertaken a sector to our country has never been clearer. If we want methods review process in which the discount rate is a to retain our global reputation, however, NICE needs key area of potential reform, which I very much welcome. to alter the way it works. The rare diseases framework Additionally, I want to ask NICE to take greater account should be seen in this context. Its themes of pioneering of the testimony from patients, because only by research and being a global player are the right ones. I understanding patients’ lived experience can a committee am encouraged that NICE recognises the challenges we properly assess the effectiveness of a drug or treatment. face. That said, I am not yet convinced that NICE has got to the right place on the detail. Unless we get it For people with rare diseases such as thalassaemia, right, we risk reducing the number of new medicines arriving the approval of a drug or treatment can be the difference to treat patients. between life and death. It is imperative that we get this right, and that means things have to change quickly. We Within the framework, priority 4 is all about improving need the implementation of an action plan for the rare access to specialist treatments. The review has identified diseases framework, and we need it now. the need to change and update the discount rates, but less helpful are the suggestions in the current process review consultation on how we evaluate new health 5.28 pm technologies. Essentially, there are two routes: the regular Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con) [V]: It is single technology appraisal process; and the highly a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Mrs Miller. I specialised technology option, which is far more flexible. wish to speak about neurofibromatosis, which for obvious Medicines for rare diseases need that flexibility and the reasons is more commonly known as NF1. As far as 439WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 440WH

[Kevin Hollinrake] Those affected by rare diseases too often feel that they are struggling alone, so as we move from publication rare diseases go, it is pretty common. It affects one in of the UK Rare Diseases Framework to the development 2,700 people born today,and it is more common than cystic of action plans, I urge the Minister to ensure that fibrosis, Duchenne muscular atrophy and Huntingdon’s patient voices are truly heard, and positive outcomes disease put together. I particularly want to echo the reflect patient needs, not just those of the healthcare words of the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist), system. who made an excellent opening speech, and I really appreciate the opportunity to speak on these issues. 5.32 pm My focus is on diagnosis and monitoring. I came Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]: across NF1 because the Watts family in my constituency I, too, extend my congratulations to the hon. Member had a son, Chris, who had the condition since he was for Blaydon (Liz Twist) on securing the debate and my born. He was 31 when he took his life, having managed gratitude to the Minister for the extra time. to pursue a career and live independently. The thing The devolved nature of health and the need for about NF1 is that it can be mild, but then it can become proper planning and co-ordination between the nations quite severe. He had a tumour that started to grow and of the UK have been brought into sharp focus as a was painful, but he was nevertheless told, “Nothing result of the covid-19 pandemic. For people living with to worry about; it’s cosmetic.” Sadly, it ended up being rare diseases, planning and co-ordination within health malignant and he passed away. I think this illustrates systems is key, as they face additional barriers to receiving the fact that we have a divided approach to NF1. It is a diagnosis and treatment, compared with those people seen as either complex or non-complex. For non-complex, who are suffering more common illnesses. In Wales, there is very little monitoring of what happens, even around 175,000 people will be affected by a rare disease though it can become complex, and there is very little at some point in their lives. A Welsh action plan that treatment for the complex conditions other than a commits to proper joint working and collaboration couple of specialist treatment centres in London and between the four nations will be imperative in ensuring Manchester. However, there is no clear pathway for one the best outcomes for people living with rare and genetic assessment—the non-complex to the complex. conditions in Wales. I am very grateful to Vanessa Martin at the Childhood That should involve data sharing between Wales’s Tumour Trust. They have set up some simple changes Congenital Anomaly Register and Information Service they would like to see, and I urge the Minster to engage and other rare diseases registries in the UK to help with them to implement those changes. researchers identify non-genetic rare diseases that are not picked up through screening and genomic testing. It would also involve better cross-border co-ordination 5.30 pm for care and treatment between Wales and the other nations, including education for clinicians and healthcare Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) staff. (Lab) [V]: Thank you, Mrs Miller,for chairing this debate. There is a question as to how the Welsh plan will I thank the Minister for allowing us to get in. integrate with health entities with a UK-wide remit, Whatever the rare disease, it cannot be right that and challenges associated with decision making. I urge families are spending their time and energy fighting for all national Governments to commit to publishing their treatments when they should be spending precious time action plans within 2021 so that we avoid delays in with their children. I congratulate my hon. Friend the implementing the framework, to ensure that there is Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist) on securing this debate, equitable treatment for those living with rare conditions. and I echo the concerns about Kuvan, particularly the I would like to mention my constituent Mark Edwards recommendation for its use only by children. One of my of Llanegryn, who has proved to be such an excellent constituents whose daughter is living with PKU raised ambassador for PKU, and to add my voice to the call very legitimate concerns with me about the detrimental for wider licensing of Kuvan. impact this could have on the mental health of children and teenagers whose lives are transformed by this drug, Mrs Maria Miller (in the Chair): We now move to the but know the clock is ticking towards it being taken Front-Bench speeches. I call Marion Fellows. away from them as they turn 18. One of the themes underpinning the UK Rare Diseases 5.34 pm Framework is patient voice, which the Department for Health and Social Care says is essential to its Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) [V]: implementation, and I could not agree more. However, Thank you Mrs Miller. It is a pleasure to serve under we must understand that there is a long way to go your chairmanship. Congratulations to the hon. Member before families coping with the impact of rare diseases for Blaydon (Liz Twist) on securing this important truly feel valued by the system. Gail and Matthew Rich debate; she is a doughty fighter. from my constituency fought a long campaign that I Around 437,000 people in Scotland have a rare disease. supported to access Brineura on the NHS for their It is therefore important that the NHS and other services daughters Nicole and Jessica, who have CLN2 Batten provide this large and diverse patient population with the Disease. Ahead of this debate, Gail told me: best possible care. The UK Government published the “Patients and parents are not included or listened to enough, new UK Rare Diseases Framework in January, listing and children are suffering as a result of following an antiquated the priorities and underlying strategic themes and detailing system which seems all about number-crunching and balancing how the four nations of the UK will address the challenges figures rather than what is essential and morally acceptable.” faced by those living with rare diseases. 441WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 442WH

As part of that ongoing commitment and with the live in the UK, their Government are committed to the support and advice of the rare disease strategic oversight framework and to making it work. Does the Minister group, the Scottish Government published their final agree? progress report, which assesses the implementation and progress against the 51 commitments in the UK strategy 5.38 pm and their own implementation plan, “It’s Not Rare to Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/Co-op): It is a Have a Rare Disease”. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Miller. In developing a new action plan for Scotland, the I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon Scottish Government will work closely with the rare (Liz Twist) on securing the debate, and on the case she disease community to ensure that their needs are made and her inspiring work championing those with appropriately reflected across wider Government policy rare diseases through the all-party parliamentary groups too, including mental health and social care, that all the that she has chaired, currently the APPG on rare, commitments are actionable and measurable, and that genetic and undiagnosed conditions and previously the the patient voice remains at the heart of the new action APPG for phenylketonuria. She set out a very strong case. plan. The Scottish Government will establish a new rare She started by saying that we have been here before. If disease implementation board to oversee the action we followed some of the suggestions that she made, it plan and further details will be in the action plan due to would make sure that we are not here forever. be published this year. I want to pick up on the point around childhood Recognising a gap in Scotland’s population health screening. I hope the Minister will address the points on charter, work is now well under way and established on the report and the outcome of the strategy. That learning a national congenital anomalies register for Scotland— is really important. CARDRISS. Once fully established, it will register babies It is hard not to be struck by the wide range of affected by a major structural or chromosomal anomaly conditions that colleagues raised—NF1, raised by the or recognised syndrome. hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake); While the congenital anomalies register is still being thalassaemia, raised by my hon. Friend the Member for developed, a great benefit has already been seen just by Enfield,Southgate(BambosCharalambous);motorneurone linking historical datasets to provide, for the first time disease, raised by the hon. Member for Northampton in Scotland, a record of congenital anomalies. The South (Andrew Lewer); and muscle wastage, raised by dataset and the register are beginning to help inform the my hon. Friend the Member for North Tyneside (Mary planning of services for individuals and families affected Glindon). The right hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris by congenital anomalies and rare diseases. Once the Skidmore) and the hon. Members for Gedling (Tom register is live, it will also allow NHS Scotland to Randall) and for Darlington (Peter Gibson) raised PKU, support the prevention of anomalies where possible, as did my hon. Friends the Members for Neath (Christina understand the impact of antenatal screening and support Rees) and for St Helens South and Whiston (Ms Rimmer). research. They made important points around welfare reform and The Scottish Government have also made great progress the accessibility of Kuvan. in delivering genomics medicine in Scotland. An allocation I hope that the Minister will also cover the more of £4.2 million over a two-year period by the Scottish general points around NICE, made by the hon. Member Government supported the transition of genomic testing for Peterborough (Paul Bristow) and on the life sciences of inherited rare disease from the research setting into sector deal, made by my hon. Friend the Member for regular genetic testing services. As a result, more families Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner). have been able to get the right genetic test and receive an The debate tells us that while rare diseases are rare often long-awaited diagnosis, enabling them to get the individually, collectively they can affect up to one in 17, support and treatment they need. A well-established so they are not rare at all. That is more than 3.5 million network of clinicians and clinical scientists has been people in the UK. We will all know someone with a rare delivering evidence-based genetic testing for NHS Scotland disease and we will all have constituents for whom we patients for more than 30 years. Continuing advancements need to advocate. Rare diseases can be life-limiting and in genomics medicine improve a range of factors for life-threatening. As was mentioned, three quarters of rare disease patients,including diagnosis,access to treatment them affect children, and sadly more than 30% of and co-ordination of care. children with a rare disease die before their fifth birthday. In Scotland, access to new medicines for rare, very That is a truly heartbreaking statistic. With that in rare and end-of-life conditions is significantly increased mind, we welcome the Government’s plans, but I want through a new ultra-orphan medicines pathway,introduced to test some of the detail. in October 2018, ensuring that those with the rarest On the first priority relating to diagnosis, I am keen diseases will get faster access to new treatment where to know what the Government’s plans are in greater appropriate. In the light of the benefits seen from the detail. Will the scope of newborn screening in the UK use of genomic medicine, the Scottish Government are be increased? Many countries screen for more than increasing their investment in this area to £2.3 million, 20 conditions; indeed, Iceland and Italy screen for more as announced in the new Scottish Budget. The investment than 40. Here in the UK, we screen for nine. Will that be will support the implementation plan and the plan will revisited? How do the Government intend to measure set out actions aligned with the three pillars in the success in diagnosis more broadly? strategy—diagnosis and personalised medicine, prevention On the second priority, awareness, we need to skill up and research. The Scottish Government will work closely our wonderful healthcare professionals. I find that, with NHS Scotland laboratory genetic services to continue whoever I speak to—especially those whose diseases their approach to embed genomics in routine healthcare. were not diagnosed at a very young age—lack of awareness Families and patients need to know that wherever they often prevented diagnosis and access to the correct 443WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 444WH

[Alex Norris] recommending Kuvan for people with PKU who are under 18. Hon. Members have quite rightly acknowledged treatment and care pathways. A couple of weeks ago I that when children and young people reach the age met a wonderful group of people from the Pernicious of 18, that is a problematic step. Anaemia Society who do great work for people struggling NICE’s draft guidance is a huge step forward for with pernicious anaemia. As we went around the room— children who stand to benefit from Kuvan as a treatment, virtually, of course—it was striking that everybody had but I understand that it will be disappointing for adults. been diagnosed with something different at some point, It is important to stress that this is not the final guidance. and often multiple things, incorrectly. What will we do NICE will carefully consider all comments received about that? Do the Government intend for rare diseases during the recent consultation. The Government encourage to have a larger part in undergraduate courses? Will the company to continue working with NICE, NHS they be part of continuous professional development England and NHS Improvement to ensure that Kuvan for already qualified medical professionals? More is priced affordably, so that more patients may benefit. importantly, because there is no new money with this That is a sort of round-robin answer to a number of the strategy, from where will the resourcing come to increase questions that have been asked. training and develop additional tools? I would like to pick up the first question that the hon. I want to touch on priorities three and four on Member for Blaydon asked about the report to be improved co-ordination and access to care treatment published on the outcomes of the UK strategy for rare and drugs. I will lean less on the latter, which was diseases. We have published yearly updates on the UK covered by others, but, on priority three, well co-ordinated strategy for rare diseases implementation plan. Those care is crucial to patients and their families. Last year, a updates highlight areas of progress and ongoing action Genetic Alliance UK report found that more than against the commitments described in the strategy. The 70% of respondents were responsible for their own or a Department is constantly engaging stakeholders to learn family member’s care. That means reduced work—or what has worked in the strategy and the implementation giving up work—and reduced education and other plan. opportunities that the rest of us take for granted. We need a family-centred holistic and equitable approach We are constantly engaging and looking for areas of to care. It would not change everything, but it would improvement, and we took the learnings into consideration make their lives much better.Again, I know the Government when we developed the UK rare diseases framework. have committed to that, but how will they measure progress? The framework builds on the previous strategy, outlining clear,concise and actionable priorities that were developed Finally, on understanding the action plans, health is in close collaboration with the rare diseases community, devolved and it is important that we take the different including patients themselves. nations approach, but when do Ministers intend to hear back? When do they think they will hear back? What The shadow Minister asked about screening newborns will we do to ensure that the care pathways are properly in the UK. As part of our screening improvement co-ordinated? programme, the Department is considering how better to integrate targeted screening of high-risk groups in I will finish there to give the Minister a chance to our population-based screening programmes. The chief address all the points raised. This has been a great medical officers of the UK have established a screening debate, and hopefully those with rare diseases, who do advisory working group to consider the scope and remit not always think their voices are heard, will feel that of the single screening advisory body proposed by today they have been heard and not missed or forgotten. Professor Sir Mike Richard. We have committed to If we come together, we can do something really special making better use of technology to develop a more in this space. personalised screening offer, including important genetic testing, inter-screening and diagnostics. In the 2019 5.43 pm report, “Generation genome and the opportunities for The Minister for Patient Safety, Suicide Prevention screening programmes”, the UK National Screening and Mental Health (Ms Nadine Dorries) [V]: It is a Committee concluded that there is “clear potential” for pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Miller. genomics in the testing for many of the conditions I am afraid that I have been asked a huge number of currently included in the blood spot test. I think that all questions. The shadow Minister just said he hoped I of us here today would agree on one fact: screening and could answer them, but I am afraid that is not going to medical science are moving forward at a rapid pace. be possible. However, I will write to the hon. Member Only last month, we marked Rare Diseases Day. We for Blaydon (Liz Twist) and answer her questions in have heard many touching stories today from Members, detail. I congratulate her on securing this important but last month we also heard many touching stories and debate. I think someone described her as a doughty how rare diseases, including PKU, can have an impact campaigner, and I pay tribute to her tireless work on patients and on their family members. As many championing the rare disease community as chair of the Members of this House know, while rare diseases are all-party parliamentary group on rare, genetic and individually rare, they are collectively common: one undiagnosed conditions. I will try to answer a few of the in 17 people is affected by rare disease at some point in points in the short time that I have and I will write on their lifetime. In the UK, that amounts to more than the rest. 3.5 million, which is a significant group of people. First, I will answer a more general point. Many I am sure that the hon. Member for Blaydon would hon. Members brought up the drug Kuvan, which is like to respond to the debate, so I will end. We will write indicated to reduce blood phenylalanine levels in patients to her with detailed responses to her thoughtful and with phenylketonuria. PKU is an inherited metabolic detailed questions. I hope she will be able to share that disorder. NICE published draft guidance on 25 February information with the rest of the people who have spoken. 445WH UK Rare Diseases Framework24 MARCH 2021 UK Rare Diseases Framework 446WH

5.48 pm Question put and agreed to. Liz Twist: I thank the Minister and all hon. Members Resolved, who took part in the debate. The diseases we have mentioned—motor neurone disease, muscular dystrophy, That this House has considered the implementation of the UK Rare Diseases Framework. PKU, thalassaemia, neurofibromatosis and Batten disease —are all important, but there are so many more rare diseases that we could have mentioned. I look forward to the Minister’s detailed reply, and I will certainly 5.49 pm circulate it to all those Members who have taken part today. Sitting adjourned.

51WS Written Statements 24 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 52WS

Work has already begun to implement these measures Written Statements across UK Government Departments, allowing this improved collaboration between the UK Government Wednesday 24 March 2021 and the devolved Administrations to begin as soon as possible. Wewill continue to reflect on these arrangements to ensure they remain fit for purpose. CABINET OFFICE The UK Government and devolved Administrations continue to work together on the common frameworks programme. This has resulted in further frameworks Strengthening the Union and Intergovernmental being agreed, including Food Compositional Standards Relations and Labelling; Blood Safety and Quality; Organs, Tissues and Cells Safety and Quality; and Public Procurement, which have been laid in Parliament. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): Today I am Quarterly report on the UK Government engagement providing an update on the UK Government’s work on with the devolved Administrations the Union and intergovernmental relations (IGR) with Our first quarterly report on the UK Government’s devolved Administrations. These are: engagement with the devolved Administrations reflects A progress update on the joint IGR review. the value the Government place on the core principles The inaugural quarterly report on the UK Government’s of transparency of intergovernmental relations. Due to engagement with the devolved Administrations. the pre-election periods in Wales and Scotland, we are publishing this information early, covering a shorter The Dunlop review into UK Government Union period of two months; the next quarterly report will be capability, alongside our response to Lord Dunlop which published in July 2021. sets out UKG’sprogress in implementing recommendations. This report predominantly provides information from Copies of all these documents have been laid in the all UK Government Departments on their participation Libraries of both Houses of Parliament and are available in intergovernmental meetings with the devolved on gov.uk. Administrations in January and February 2021. It is The UK Government are steadfast in their commitment supplemented with a summary of engagement which to protect and promote the hundreds of years of shared has taken place since July 2019. The report will support history, beliefs and interests embodied in our Union, the UK Parliament’s capacity to scrutinise our role in the most successful political and economic partnership intergovernmental relations, so that parliamentarians the world has seen. can help guide our approach to strengthening our Union, Our response to the coronavirus pandemic has while also demonstrating our commitment to transparency highlighted the importance of the broad shoulders of of IGR. the UK Government in supporting the whole country. Dunlop review into UK Government union capability It has shown we are at our strongest when we come together as one United Kingdom. Together we are Weare very grateful to Lord Dunlop for his independent better able to tackle big problems, from defending our and expert assessment and analysis of the UK Government borders and fighting national cyber security threats, to operations in the areas of devolution and IGR. We have delivering the furlough scheme to protect our jobs, and carefully studied all of his recommendations and his being first to secure the covid-19 vaccine for citizens report has provided the impetus for a wide-ranging across the UK. programme of reform that I and my colleagues will continue to pursue vigorously. Today demonstrates the UK Government commitment to putting the foundations in place for our covid-19 [HCWS885] recovery. For our family of nations to thrive—for the Union of the UK to prosper—the UK Government will continue to work smarter for people in every part of the BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL country, building back better and stronger from covid-19 STRATEGY and able, outside the European Union, to target money where it is most needed. Progress update on the IGR review North Sea Oil and Gas and Clean Energy Transition The IGR review is a joint review by the UK Government and devolved Administrations to make sure intergovernmental structures are fit for purpose. This The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial publication is the product of months of detailed analysis Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): Today I am delighted to of how the UK Government and devolved Administrations announce a landmark agreement between the Government can work together effectively, reconciling a range of and the oil and gas industry—the North sea transition goals and aspirations from all parts of the UK. It deal—to support the industry’s transition to clean, green details our ambitious and forward-looking approach to energy and secure future of high-skilled oil and gas future IGR, ensuring an effective culture of collaboration workers and the supply chain. This follows our commitment and co-operation, protecting the integrity of our Union to securing a deal in the 2019 Conservative party manifesto and shaping our common future. Where discussions are and is the first of its kind to be agreed by a G7 nation. ongoing, the UK Government suggested position is The offshore oil and gas industry has been a major included in square brackets.Weare committed to continuing British industrial success story. For decades, the sector discussions with our devolved Administration colleagues has strengthened our energy security,generated significant on these areas after the May elections. tax revenue to fund our public services, and currently 53WS Written Statements 24 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 54WS supports around 260,000 jobs across the UK. From the A 60Mt reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, including Shetland Islands and Aberdeen to Teesside and the 15Mt through the progressive decarbonisation of UKCS Humber, the industry is critical to the health of local production over the period to 20301. economies across the country. Support for up to 40,000 direct and indirect supply chain jobs in decarbonising UKCS production and the CCUS and In the energy White Paper, we have committed to hydrogen sectors. work with industry to make the UK continental shelf a Today’s announcement delivers on the Prime Minister’s net zero basin by 2050. The oil and gas industry will 10-point plan and builds on our ambitious energy White have a critical role in maintaining our energy security Paper, which set out how the Government would support through this transition. Domestically produced gas still the decarbonisation of offshore oil and gas production met approximately 46% of the country’s supply of gas while promoting opportunities for the sector to transition in 2019 and the Climate Change Committee forecasts to clean energy. our continued need for fossil fuels for years to come. To aid the transition to a green economy, today’s The North sea transition deal between the UK package follows the recent Budget in which the Chancellor Government and the oil and gas industry will support committed to funding that targets the oil and gas sector workers, businesses, and the supply chain as it transitions and supports businesses to develop green energy. This to a net zero future by harnessing the industry’s existing includes up to £27 million for the Aberdeen energy capabilities, infrastructure, and private investment potential transition zone to transform the area into a green to exploit new and emerging technologies such as hydrogen energy hub and up to £5 million additional funding for production, carbon capture, usage and storage and the global underwater hub based in Aberdeen to open offshore wind—as well as offshore decommissioning. up opportunities for the city to become a global hub for Through the deal, the oil and gas sector and the underwater engineering, including in offshore wind and Government will work together over the long term to hydrogen—further supporting the creation of green deliver the skills, innovation and new infrastructure jobs and helping the transition to net zero. required to decarbonise North sea production, as well I will place a copy of the North sea transition deal in as other carbon-intensive industries. Not only will the the Libraries of both Houses. deal support existing companies to decarbonise in The Review of Future Licensing of Offshore Oil and Gas preparation for a net zero future, but it will also attract new industrial sectors to base themselves in the UK, We committed in September 2020 to reviewing policy develop new export opportunities for British businesses, on licensing for North sea oil and gas to ensure it was and secure new high-value jobs. compatible with our climate change objectives. This included assessing whether licensing for new oil and gas Through the package of measures, the deal is expected exploration and production should continue in its current to support up to 40,000 jobs across the supply chain form, as well as the scope for formalising any aspects of and is expected to cut pollution by up to 60 million our existing processes to provide additional assurances. tonnes by 2030 including 15 million tonnes from oil and Noting the ongoing role of oil and gas on our path to gas production on the UK continental shelf—the equivalent net zero, the Government will introduce a new climate of annual emissions from 90% of the UK’s homes. compatibility checkpoint on future oil and gas licensing The North Sea Transition Deal rounds to ensure they are compatible with wider climate Delivery of the new green industrial revolution will objectives, including net zero emissions by 2050. This require a strong partnership between the Government, checkpoint will use the latest evidence of the time, regulators and industry. This deal sets out a template looking at the UK’s demand for oil and gas, the sector’s for that partnership and includes an ambitious plan to projected production levels, the increasing prevalence of meet stretching greenhouse gas emissions reduction clean technologies such as offshore wind and carbon targets. The deal aims to support and anchor the expert capture, and the sector’s continued progress against its supply chain that has built up around oil and gas in the ambitious emissions reduction targets. UK, to both safeguard and create new high-quality jobs. Design of this checkpoint will be completed by the end of 2021, before the next oil and gas licensing round. The deal includes: The Oil and Gas Authority has already indicated that The sector setting early targets to reduce emissions by 10% that it will not be running a new licensing round this by 2025 and 25% by 2027, and it has committed to cut year. In parallel, the Offshore Petroleum Regulator for emissions by 50% by 2030. This will be supported by joint Environment and Decommissioning is commencing work work to address the commercial and regulatory barriers to on a new offshore energy strategic environmental assessment electrification of offshore platforms to realise these targets. which will underpin future licensing rounds. Joint Government and industry investment of up to £16 billion Government response to the public consultation “Aligning by 2030 to reduce carbon emissions. This includes up to £3 billion to replace fossil fuel-based power supplies on oil UK international support for the clean energy transition” and gas platforms with renewable energy, up to £3 billion on At the Climate Ambition summit on 12 December carbon capture usage and storage, and up to £10 billion for 2020, the Prime Minister announced that the UK will hydrogen production. end new direct financial or promotional support for the By 2030, the sector will voluntarily commit to ensuring that fossil fuel energy sector overseas, other than in limited 50% of its offshore decommissioning and new energy technology circumstances, as soon as possible. A consultation on projects will be provided by local businesses, helping to this and how to accelerate growth in UK clean energy anchor jobs to the UK. This will be supported by the exports was subsequently held until 8 February 2021. appointment of an industry supply chain champion who will support the coordination of local growth and job opportunities Following the consultation, the Government will no with other sectors, such as carbon capture, usage and storage longer provide support for the fossil fuel energy sector and offshore wind. overseas from 31 March 2021. This will include UK 55WS Written Statements 24 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 56WS

Export Finance support, international aid funding, and TREASURY trade promotion for new crude oil, natural gas and thermal coal projects. Public Spending: Devolved Administrations To support the UK’s energy sector in making this transition, we will provide a one-year exemption for small and medium-sized enterprises, to ensure the most The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Steve Barclay): vulnerable firms are given time to adjust; provide a new On 15 February the UK Government announced an “transition export development guarantee”, so that oil additional £2.1 billion for the devolved Administrations and gas focused companies with credible transition through the Barnett formula to support people, businesses plans can benefit from UK Export Finance’s working and public services affected by coronavirus. This was on capital support to achieve these plans; and publish a top of the £16.8 billion that had previously been guaranteed. comprehensive and transparent description of the In recognition of the exceptional circumstances and exemptions underpinning the policy shift, to provide in response to calls for flexibility, the devolved clarity and certainty for business and civil society. Administrations were given the option to carry forward This balanced approach will make the UK an even any of the £2.1 billion into 2021-22 on top of their stronger and more credible international partner to the existing facilities to transfer funding between financial growing number of countries who are seeking to make years. the transition to a cleaner future. The UK will build on The devolved Administrations have now confirmed the implementation of the policy shift by working with they wish to carry forward the following amounts. They likeminded partners to make similar commitments, will receive this funding at Main Estimates 2021-22. including through our G7 and COP26 presidencies. 1The 60Mt also includes emissions savings from CCUS and Northern hydrogen already set out in the PM’s 10-point plan. Scottish Welsh Ireland £million Government Government Executive [HCWS879] Resource 873.510 497.557 238.054 DEL excluding Climate-related Financial Disclosures Consultation depreciation Capital DEL 236.845 137.130 74.964 (general) The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth Capital DEL 41.532 25.530 14.039 (Anne-Marie Trevelyan): Today,the Government published (Financial their consultation on proposals requiring mandatory Transactions) climate-related financial disclosures by publicly quoted Total DEL 1,151.888 660.218 327.057 companies, large private companies and limited liability partnerships (LLPs). The devolved Administrations’ 2020-21 funding as at Supplementary Estimates 2020-21 is therefore being In November 2020, the Chancellor of the Exchequer reduced by the same amount. announced that in order to accelerate progress on climate risk disclosures, the UK will move towards mandatory In line with the Statement of Funding Policy, the Taskforce on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures Welsh Government are also switching £501 million from (TCFD) across major segments of the UK economy by Resource DEL to Capital DEL (general). 2025, with a significant portion of requirements to be This means that revised 2020-21 funding is as follows: introduced by 2023. This will make the UK the first G20 country to make TCFD-aligned disclosures mandatory Northern Scottish Welsh Ireland across the economy. £million Government Government Executive TCFD is an industry-led initiative which seeks to develop recommendations for climate-related financial disclosures. Resource 39,210.215 17,923.931 14,974.531 DEL In 2017, the TCFD launched its recommendations, excluding which set out how companies of any size, and in any depreciation sector or geography, could better manage and disclose Capital DEL 4,836.545 2,837.569 1,591.874 their climate-related financial risks. Our proposed (general) regulations will require companies to disclose information Capital DEL 612.198 313.696 214.816 in line with the four pillars of TCFD: governance, (Financial strategy, risk management and metrics and targets. Transactions) High-quality disclosure of how organisations will Total DEL 44,65.8957 21,075.195 16,781.222 manage the material financial risks and opportunities [HCWS882] arising from climate change will improve transparency and encourage better informed pricing and capital allocation. As a result, and over time, TCFD-aligned DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT disclosures will support investment decisions aligned with our transition to net zero. Our ambitious proposals Flags will ensure the UK is leading the way ahead of COP26, where we will have an opportunity to encourage other The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and countries to replicate our action. Sport (Oliver Dowden): The Union flag will now be I will place a copy of the consultation document in flown on UK Government buildings every day unless the Libraries of both Houses. another flag is being flown—acting as a visual symbol [HCWS880] of the UK’s union, heritage and pride. 57WS Written Statements 24 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 58WS

Currently, Union flags are only required to be flown protection expertise of Public Health England into an on all UK Government buildings in England, Wales organisation focused wholly on protecting people from and Scotland on designated days, such as the Queen’s external threats to this country’s health. birthday. The changes will apply to all Government buildings From 1 April, we will formally establish the new UK across the UK, with the Union flag being flown by Health Security Agency (UKHSA). The UKHSA will default if nothing else is being flown, such as another be this country’s permanent standing capacity to prepare national flag of the UK, or a county flag or other flags for, prevent and respond to threats to health. to mark civic pride. The guidance will also encourage The UKHSA will plan for the risk of future infectious other buildings, such as councils, to follow this example, disease pandemics and other major health threats, where they have a flagpole and wish to fly a flag. maintaining this focus both during a crisis and in better The Union flag is the national flag of the United times. It will work with partners around the world and Kingdom, and it is so called because it embodies the lead the UK’s global contribution to global health emblems of the three constituent nations united under protection research. The new agency will prevent threats one sovereign—the Kingdoms of England and Wales, by deploying the full weight of our analytic and genomic of Scotland and of Northern Ireland. It serves as a capability, on infectious diseases and beyond, and will reminder of our shared history and union. Flags other hold responsibility for our health security scientific than the Union, such as national flags of the constituent capabilities including those at Porton Down and Colindale.. nations of the United Kingdom, the armed forces flag, It will respond to the threats we face with speed and the Commonwealth flag, county and other local flags, scale,including terrorist threats to health, another pandemic can be flown on non-designated days. or environmental hazards. We will also cut red tape to allow dual flagging—where two flags can be flown on one pole. This will allow The agency will operate with local and national partners organisations to highlight local and national identities, to deliver its brief, including building a strong partnership for example by flying a Middlesex county flag alongside with local government and directors of public health. It the Union flag in Middlesex, or the Saltire alongside the will work with the national public health bodies for Union flag in Scotland Where organisations have two flag Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, continuing strong poles, they can fly the Union flag alongside another collaborative work such as the joint biosecurity centre flag—for example, flying the Saltire alongside the Union to support health security for the whole of the UK. flag in Scotland. UKHSA will be empowered to hire the very best The Union flag must always be flown in the superior team possible from around the world. Its chief executive position. will be Dr Jenny Harries, who has performed brilliantly Following our departure from the European Union, during this crisis. Dr Harries previously led the public planning regulations (in England) introduced by the health response to the Novichok poisonings, she played then Government in 2007 that allow the EU flag to be a critical part in the UK’s Ebola response, and last year, flown on public buildings without securing express consent as deputy chief medical officer, she delivered the shielding in the normal way will also be removed. programme which is both incredibly sensitive and has Instead, new “deemed consent” will be granted for been superbly delivered. Dr Harries’ distinguished career the NHS flags. This will allow for NHS flags to be as both a public health physician, and crucially, as a flown, without the need for express consent—alongside public health leader, make her impeccably qualified for the Union flag. this role. The changes will help champion the UK’s national Ian Peters will be UKHSA’sChair.Under Ian’sleadership identities and strengthen our shared pride in the Union as chairman of Barts Health NHS Trust, the trust through the institutions that define Britain. has built an impressive track record in life sciences with This guidance is published today and will apply from the combination of private sector, academic and the summer. Government capability that is so important to delivering The attachment can be viewed online at: http://www. excellence at scale. Ian brings his extensive experience of parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions- leadership in the public and private sector to this task, answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2021- including several years as managing director of British 03-24/HCWS883/. Gas. Both Dr Harries and Mr Peters will be appointed [HCWS883] from 1 April. To protect operational continuity and provide for HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE necessary staff consultations, the transition of responsibilities and capabilities from Public Health England UK Health Security Agency and NHS Test and Trace into the new agency will take place over the coming months, with the UKHSA fully The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care operational from October 2021. Until this date, PHE (Matt Hancock): I wish to inform the House of progress and NHS Test and Trace will continue to deliver their in establishing the UK health security agency and the existing functions. appointment of its leadership. I will provide a further update in due course on the In August 2020, the Government announced its intention Government’s wider plans for public health reform, to create a new body, bringing together the at-scale including on arrangements for promoting and improving operational response capability of NHS Test and Trace, health. the joint biosecurity centre’s intelligence and analytical capability and the public health science and health [HCWS884] 59WS Written Statements 24 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 60WS

Sale of a Credit Guarantee Finance Loan HOME DEPARTMENT

New Plan for Immigration The Minister for Health (Edward Argar): In 2005 the Department of Health, as it was then, made two loans The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the under a policy created by HM Treasury called credit Home Department (Chris Philp): Wehave today published guarantee finance, one for the private finance initiative the “New Plan for Immigration”—the Government’s scheme at the Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust for landmark programme to deliver the first comprehensive the Bexley oncology wing and the other for the PFI overhaul of the asylum system in decades. scheme at the Portsmouth Hospitals University NHS Trust for the redevelopment of the Queen Alexandra These reforms are explained in more detail in our Hospital. The purpose of the policy was to reduce the policy statement, which we have published today. To financing costs of private finance initiative deals and inform the proposals set out and ensure we can deliver improve their value for money. An assessment at the effective change across the system, we have also launched time concluded that these objectives had been met. a public consultation and run a wide-reaching engagement process. We will use this opportunity to listen to a wide It has now been agreed that the Department of range of views from stakeholders and sectors as well as Health and Social Care will sell its entire interest in the members of the public. credit guarantee finance loan which was used for the The policy statement and consultation are available PFI scheme at Queen Alexandra Hospital, Portsmouth. at: The credit guarantee loan which was used for the PFI https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/new- scheme at Bexley oncology wing, at the Leeds was plan-for-immigration repaid in full in 2017 [HCWS881] [HCWS881] TRANSPORT

Specialty and Associate Doctors’ Contract Agreement Roads

The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps): The Minister for Care (Helen Whately): I am pleased Since becoming Secretary of State for Transport, I have to confirm that specialty and associate specialist doctors shared the concerns of many regarding All Lane Running have backed a multi-year pay and contract reform (ALR) motorways. Any question about safety on our agreement. road network must be taken with the upmost seriousness. This is a diverse group of doctors who play a vital Therefore, one of my first actions as Secretary of State role in delivering high-quality care within healthcare was to commission a stocktake to set out recommendations teams and we recognise the particular issues they have to raise the bar on safety. While the evidence has faced. This agreement focuses on fixing long-standing suggested that ALR motorways are in most ways as safe concerns around equality of pay and terms and conditions as, or safer than, conventional ones, I am determined to for this group of staff. The agreement will improve their go further and ensure that they are the safest roads in experiences of work and provide more opportunities to Britain. progress in their careers, in return for contractual changes To this end, in March 2020,1 announced a package of which will deliver improvements to NHS services. 18 measures, costing £500 million, including the faster The deal will give around 10,000 doctors the option rollout of a radar-based stopped vehicle detection (SVD) to transfer to new contracts. The contract changes across the ALR motorway network. prioritise doctors’ physical and mental wellbeing through Earlier this year, I asked for a one-year-on report introducing new limits on work in unsocial hours and from Highways England detailing its progress in delivering additional annual leave to improve equity with other the 18-point action plan and identifying actions that staff groups.The new pay scales will have fewer progression can be delivered ahead of schedule. I asked for this by points, enabling faster progression to the top of the pay 12 March 2021. scale, heeding the recommendations from the gender Highways England has now provided my Department pay gap in medicine review. The introduction of a new with that anniversary report, and work is rapidly being senior grade will expand opportunities for career progression completed to assess it, including stocktake actions, and for specialty doctors. to establish next steps. The report will be published by summer, once I am assured that the proposals are Over recent years we have sought major contractual sufficiently robust. reforms right across the NHS workforce. Public sector pay must deliver value for money for the taxpayer The publication of this report will not, however, and this agreement commits investment in return for mark the end of the process, and I am determined to reforms which will help improve recruitment and retention, ensure all possible actions to make ALR motorways enhance morale and boost capacity and productivity. safer still are explored. I have therefore ordered my officials to continue to work with Highways England on This agreement delivers on the commitment in the developing possible future options, working closely with NHS People Plan to make these roles more attractive road safety groups and parliamentarians, as well as the and fulfilling and will help us retain more talent to ensure Transport Select Committee, which currently has an our NHS is there for everyone in the years to come. active inquiry into this issue. I am interested to receive [HCWS877] its final report. 61WS Written Statements 24 MARCH 2021 Written Statements 62WS

The latest safety evidence drawn from data and analysis Within this role, the ORR already scrutinises Highways of the 2019 STATS19 official statistics has been produced England’s delivery of the smart motorway stocktake by Highways England and will be contained within its actions, and its performance against its road safety report. There has been considerable public and media KPIs. However, I believe there may be scope to go interest in understanding motorway accident and fatality further. In addition to asking ORR to undertake an data and I have commissioned the Office of Rail and independent review of the available safety evidence on Road (ORR) to independently review the data to provide ALR motorways, my officials will explore what further further analytical assurance and ensure that the conclusions independent scrutiny may be appropriate. arrived at are robust. The ORR is the independent Ensuring our roads are safe for those who use them is statutory monitor of Highways England and its my top priority. management of the strategic road network. [HCWS886] 5P Petitions 24 MARCH 2021 Petitions 6P

The GRS covers the cost of wages for hours not worked. Petition For these non-worked hours, there is no entitlement to a minimum wage. Employers can pay employees more Wednesday 24 March 2021 than the grant amount and wider support is available. OBSERVATIONS The National Living Wage (NLW) and National Minimum Wage (NMW) are calculated on the basis of TREASURY hours worked, which includes time spent travelling on Wage floor to the furlough scheme business or training. Under the GRS, for hours worked, The petition of residents of the United Kingdom, those on minimum wages will continue to be paid their appropriate minimum wage. Declares that no-one should ever be paid less than the National Minimum Wage; further declares that the The GRS covers the cost of wages for hours not Government furlough scheme is leaving millions of worked. For such hours, employees are not entitled to low-paid workers on less than this basic minimum pay; the NLW or NMW. As a result, for time spent not notes that new official figures show that over two million working, the employer is not required to pay more than workers have been paid less than the National Minimum 80% of the usual wage for furloughed hours, even if Wage this year; further that this is nearly five times as that means the furlough pay is less than the appropriate many workers as in 2019; and further declares that this minimum wage. Time spent training is counted as working crisis should not be paid for on the backs of low-paid time and so must be paid appropriate minimum wage. workers. This is a decision for employers to make alone, but The petitioners therefore request that the House of the terms of the scheme do allow for employers to make Commons urge the Government to introduce a wage a top-up payment, should they deem this affordable and floor in the furlough scheme to ensure that no worker is appropriate. paid less than the National Minimum Wage. The GRS is just one part of a £407 billion support And the petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Richard package of Government support, which has protected Burgon, Official Report, 2 February 2021; Vol. 688, jobs and helped millions of people across the UK c. 925 .] continue to provide for their families. This package has boosted the generosity of the welfare system by £7.4 billion [P002648] in 2020-21. To support those on the lowest incomes, the Observations from The Financial Secretary to the Treasury Chancellor announced at the Budget that the temporary (Jesse Norman): £20 uplift to universal credit will continue for a further The Government thank Richard Burgon for submitting six months, and working tax credit claimants will receive the petition on behalf of his constituents about introducing an equivalent of six months of support through a a wage floor to the GRS. one-off payment of £500.

ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 24 March 2021

Col. No. Col. No. PRIME MINISTER ...... 907 WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—continued Engagements...... 907 Covid-19: Working Parents ...... 904 Female Participation in STEM ...... 901 WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 899 Safer Streets for Women...... 901 Conversion Therapy...... 903 Same-sex Couples: Insemination Services ...... 899 Covid-19: Disabled People ...... 902 Topical Questions ...... 905 Covid-19: Female Employment...... 900 UK’s G7 Presidency: Role of Women ...... 900 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Wednesday 24 March 2021

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE...... 57WS STRATEGY ...... 52WS Sale of a Credit Guarantee Finance Loan...... 59WS Climate-related Financial Disclosures Specialty and Associate Doctors’ Contract Consultation ...... 55WS Agreement ...... 59WS North Sea Oil and Gas and Clean Energy UK Health Security Agency ...... 57WS Transition ...... 52WS HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 60WS CABINET OFFICE...... 51WS New Plan for Immigration ...... 60WS Strengthening the Union and Intergovernmental Relations...... 51WS TRANSPORT ...... 60WS Roads...... 60WS

DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 56WS TREASURY ...... 56WS Flags ...... 56WS Public Spending: Devolved Administrations ...... 56WS PETITION

Wednesday 24 March 2021

Col. No. TREASURY ...... 5P Wage floor to the furlough scheme...... 5P No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Wednesday 31 March 2021

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 691 Wednesday No. 196 24 March 2021

CONTENTS

Wednesday 24 March 2021

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 899] [see index inside back page] Minister for Women and Equalities Prime Minister

New Plan for Immigration [Col. 921] Statement—(Priti Patel)

Liverpool City Council [Col. 937] Statement—(Robert Jenrick)

Coronavirus (No. 2) [Col. 950] Bill presented, and read the First time

Gaming Hardware (Automated Purchase and Resale) [Col. 952] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Douglas Chapman)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Backbench Business Online Anonymity and Anonymous Abuse [Col. 955] Covid-19: Hospitality Industry [Col. 988] General debates

Petition [Col. 1025]

Waste Incinerators [Col. 1027] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall NHS Pay [Col. 365WH] Luton Airport Expansion [Col. 391WH] STEM Subjects: Science and Discovery Centres [Col. 398WH] Bakerloo Line Extension [Col. 422WH] UK Rare Diseases Framework [Col. 428WH] General debates

Written Statements [Col. 51WS]

Petition [Col. 5P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]