_latll SMfeI. Vol. L. No. 47 Tbora",. Mill!. 1'" --- Valllkba 21,1911 (SUa)
LOK SABHA DEBATES (English Version)
Thirteenth SeaIOD (Ei&htb Lot Sabha)
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(Yol. L cOlJtaim Nos. 4110 49)
LOK SABHA SECRETARlA1 NEW DELHI hIe. I Itt.G.OO (OIlODiAL BNGLIIH paOcaDINGI INCLUDD IN BNGLISII VDSION AND OaIOINAL HlNDI n.ocuDINGS INCLUDID IN HINDI VDIION WILL • t'UATID AS AUTBOIJTATIVB AND NaY TBI TaAHILATlOH TRDao•• ) CONTENETS
[Eighth SSfles, Volume L- Thirteenth Session, 198911911 (Saka)]
No , 47- Thursday, May", 1989/Valsakha 2', 1911 (Saka)
COLUMNS
Papers LaId on the Table 20-22
Messages from RaJYa Sabha 22-23
Matters Under Rule 377 23-29
(I) Demand for a reallway line between 23 Morena and Phooph In Mahdya Pradesh
Shn Kamrodllal Jatav
(II) Demand for installing a wIreless machine 23-24 at Jaypore Airstrip In Orrssa for safe and smooth operatIon of Vayudoot flights
Shn K Pradhanl
(III) Demand for provIsIon of a railway link to 24-25 Tonk In Rajasthan and action on Survey Report for railway line between Swal Madhopur and Tonk
Shn Banwart Lal Balrwa
(IV) Demand for provIsion of rtgs etc for dnillng 25 deep tubewells In Kalahandl and Bolanglr districts of Orissa to meet dnnklng water scarcity In the region
Shn Jagannath Pattnalk
oJ) Demand for commissioning the proposed radio 25-26 station at Barmer, Ralasthan
Shn Vlrdhl Chander Jam (ii) CoLUMNS
(vi) Demand for disclosing facts to Parliament 26-27 before signing treaty on export of toxic wastes from industrialised countries to Third World Countries.
Shri Somnath Chatterjee
(vii) Demand for effective measures to insure 27-28 uninterrupted supply of raw materials to the Electric Arc Furnace Industry and rationalising customs and excise duty on ferrous scrap.
Shri Ram Narain Singh
(viii) Demand for urgent steps to provide drinking 28 irrigation water in Palamau and Mazaribagh districts of Bihar.
Shri Yogeshwar Prasad Yogesh
(ix) Demand for financial assistance to Vidyasagar 2~ University in West Bengal.
Shri Basudeb Acharia
Reprosentation of tho People (Amendment) Bill 30-87
Motion to ccn8 ider
Shri B. Shankaranand 30-31
Shri C. Madhdv Reddi 31-34
Shri Vijay N. PFJti! 34-36
Shri Satyagopal Mishra 36-38
Shri Virdhi Chander Jain 3~--40
Shri V.S. Krishna Iyer 40-42 '
S:ui Surnnath Rath 42-43 ~
Shri ViJoy Kumar Yadav 43-45 COLUMNS Shri Shankar Lal 45-47
Dr. Datta Sam ant 47-50
Shri Ram Singh Yadav 50-52
Shri Balwant Singh Ramoowalla 53-54
Shri Oal Chandar Jain 54-55
Shri Shantaram Naik 55-57
Shri Syed Shahabuddin 57-59
Shn Jagannath Pattnalk 59--60
Shri V.S. VIJayaraghavan 61--62
Dr. Chander Shekhar Tnpathl 62--63
Shri Dharam Pal Singh Malik 63-64
Shri PIYus Tlraky 65-66
Shn AZlz Qureshi 66-67
Dr. G.S. Ra}hans 67~8
Shn Ram Bhagat Paswan 68-69
Dr. Phulrenu Guha 69-70
Shri Sharad Dighe 70-72
Kumari Mamata Banar;ee 72-74
Shri C.P. Thakur 74-75
Shri Abdul Rashid Kabuli 75-76 (iv) CoLUMNS
Prof. N.G. Ranga 76-78
Clauses 2 to 6 and 1 80-85
Motion to pass
Shri B. Shankaranand 78-84
Shri Sriballav Panigrahl 85-86
Punjab Pre-Emption (Chandigarh and Delhi Repeal) Bill 87-107
As passed by Rajya Sabha
Motion to consider,
Shn Sontosh Mohan Dev 87-89
Shri B.B. Ramaiah 89-90
Shri Gadadhar Saha 90-91
Dr. G.S. Rajhans 91-92
Shri Ram Narain Singh 92-9~
Shri G M. Banatwalla 94-98
Shri Balwant Singh Ramoowalla 98-99
Shri Syed Shahbuddin 100-102
Clauses 2, 3 and 1 105-107
Motion to Pass
Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev 102-105
Statement Re: Release of Further Instalment of Dearness 99-100 Allowance to Central Government Employees.
Shri B.K. Gadhvi 99-100 (v) CoLUMNS
Centraflndustrial Security Force (Amendment) Bill 107-125
As passed by Rajya Sabha
Motion to consider
Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev 107-109
Shri K. Ramachandra Reddy 109-113
Shr; R.P. Das 113-115
Shri Mohd. Ayub Khan (Udhampur J & K) 115-116
Shri Thampan Thomas 116-118
Shri Ramashray Prasad Singh 118
Kumari Mamata Banerjee 119
Dr. Datta Sam ant 119-121
Clauses 2 to 5 and 1 123-125
Motion to pass
Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev 121-125
Shri K. Ramachandra Reddy 124
Dr. Datta Samant 124
Discussion Under Rule 193 125-154 Liberalisation of orders improving representation of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes In Central Government Services.
Shri Yogeshwar Prasad Yogesh 125-129
Shri Oaf Chander Jain 129-130
Shri Sriballev Panigrahi 130--132 (vi) CoLUMNS Shri Thampan Thomas 132-134 Shri Mohd. Ayub Khan (Jhunjhunu Rajasthan) 134-136 Shri Keyur Bhushan 136-139 Shri Harish Rawat 139-142
Shri K.D. Su~anpuri 142-147 Shri Anandi Charan Das 147-151 Shri R. Pradhani 151-154 lOK SABHA DEBATES
LOKSABHA tho C & AG's Report. 1 will humbJy request you to give your ruling on this and directthem to lay thiS Report on the Table of the House.
Thursday, May 11 1989Naisakha 21, SHAt SOMNATH CHATTERJEE 1911 (Saka) (Bolpur): That is a mandatory requirement under the Constitution. There is no question The Lok Sabha met at Eleven 01 the ClocA of their comments on the Report.
[MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF EXPENDITURE IN THE [Eng/ish] MINISTHY OF FINANCE (SHRI B.K. GADHVI): As far as I recollect, the Press MR. SPEAKER: Yes, Mr. Dandavate. report is that the Finance Ministry received the Report four weeks back. It is not a correct PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Ra statement of facts. japur): A Privilege Motion was pending. I have received from you, through your Secre PROF. MADHU OANDAVATE: You tariat, a memorandum given by the Finance received it on 27th April. You have stated in Ministry regarding a breach of pnvilege your memorandum. concerning non-presentation of the Report. There they have argued that firstly, there is SHRI B.K. GADHVI: That is what I am no condition stipulated in Article 151 that is a saying. Kindly don't be impatient. We re definite period is there in which a Report is to ceived the Report on the 27th April. Nor be submitted; secondly, their contention is mally, for any report which ;s being pre that two or three weeks are required to sented, I can cite the number of days also process the C & AG's Report before it is taken for laying the Report on the Table of presented. So, I must humbly point out to the House for both the years 1988 as well as you that as far as the convention and the 1989. Normally, in some cases, it has taken spirit of the Constitution are concerned, 22 days, 24 days; even in one case, n has though this stipulation is not there, it IS sup taken 46 days. posed to be expeditiously laidonthe Table of the House. Secondly, they have said that SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: For they will required three-four weeks for proc what purpose? They cannot edit it; they essm9 the C & AGts Report. cannot comment on it: they have only to file it. (Interruptions) In the case of Commission of Inquiry Report, they have to present rt to the House not only the Report but the Action Taken SHRt B.K. GADHVI: We are not com .. Report also. Therefore, there I can under monting on it. stand they have to prepare what action is to be taken. But as far as the C & AG:s Report SHRt BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): is concerned, there is no Action Taken Report The Report of the C & AG should be laid on and 1h.8 is no question of their processing the Table of the House immediately. 3 MAY 11, 1989 4
SHRI B.K. GADHVI: The Finance Min have asked him to explain. ister was in China. When a Report comes, then it is looked into; it is also read; it is also [ Translation] compiled to see whether something is miss ing or not and everything is Okay. (Interrup Please, let him speak first. tions), ( Interruptions) SHAt BASUDEB ACHARIA: Why compilation is required? (Interruptjons) [English]
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY SHRI B. K. GADHVI: The Finance Min (Katwa): Why any processing ;s required ister returned from China only on the early before laying the Report on the Table of the morntng of 9th. House? (Interruptions) PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: What SHRI B.K. GADHVI: I am not yielding. clbout the Minister of State? He did not go to After it is received in the Ministry, it is sent to China or Malaysia. the President; and under Article 151 of the Constitution, the President has to cause it to SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Some be laid on the Table of the House. The body was in charge of the Ministry's busi Report ;s with us. We af e looking into It. ness. (Interruptions) SHRI B.K. GADHVI: Under Article 151 SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: What are there IS no obligation; there is no time stipu you looking into? lated. But we believe that as soon as the process is over it should be presented to the SHAt SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: For Ho~se. It will be presented at the appropriate what purpose? What are you to look ,into? time. Thore IS no undue delay at all.
SHAI B.K. GADHVI: Wecannot chango SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: the Report. (Interruptions) Kind Iy look at Article 151.
[ Translation) SHRlINDRAJITGUPTA(Basirhat): The session was due to end, according to the SHRI VIJOY KUMAR YADAV (Nal calendar, yesterday. That means that the anda): What is the problem in presenting the session would have ended but for the exten report in the House in the same fOI m as it has sion which has now been given. So, this been received by the Government. report would not have been laid. My informa tion is-I would like him to confirm that-that [English] after receiving the report the Finance Minis try has passed It on to the Defence Ministry SHRI RAJ KUMAR RAI (Ghosi): What for their comments. Is It d part of the process are they looking into? Ing?
[ Translation] PROF. MADHU OANDAVATE: You cannot tamper with the report. You cannot MR. SPEAKER: How can be listen to process it. Your job is to straightaway lay in you until the Hon'ble Minister has completed on the Table of the House his reply.
[English] SHRI B.K. GADHVI: The Government is not going to tamper with the report. The That is what I am asking; that is why I Govetnment cannot tamper with the repl'p1 5 VAJSAKHA 21, 191 ~ (SAKA) 6
PROF.MADHUDANDAVATE: Why do of the Houa,. they need time to fay it on the Table of the House? Why are you delaying ~? SHRI B.K. GADHVI: For the purpose of making a point that there is no delay, twould SHRt INDAAJIT GUPTA: Have you say that the first report, Civil Finance and passed it on to the Defence Ministry for their Appropnation Accounts, 1988 was laid after comments? 22 days; Union Government Appropriation Accounts was laId after 30 days: Railway SHRI B.K. GADHVI: Till the report IS Report was laid after 20 days; Indirect Taxes laid on the Table of the House, I would not be report was laid after 23 days; Direct Taxes in a position to tell you anything. f cannot tell rEt po rt was laid after 25 days; Scientific you anything. Department support was laid after 46 days; Deihl Admlntstratlon report was laid after 27 PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Why? days: Other Autonomous Bodies report was laId after 25 days: and the Union Govern SHRI B.K. GADHVI: You cannot expoct ment (CIvil and Pubilc Debt and nGS & D) something confidential from me. report Wc.lS laid after 78 days. (Interruptions)
SIiRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: What IS the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: You meaning of processmg? are only quoting how many times you have commItted the blunder. SHRI B.K. GADHVI:I cannot say how the things are happening In the Ministry. SHRI B.K. GHADVI: The (sPOrt was They are confidential matters. Those things received only on the 27th Aprtl and it IS not cannot be mentioned here. correct to say that undue time IS taken in presenting the report to Parliament. SHAI BASUDEB ACHARIA: I am on a point of order. SHRI SOMNA TH CHATTERJEE: Not a Single reason has been given why the SHRI INDRAJIT GUPl A: The whole repol t could not be placed on the Table cf the thing is Irregular. House.
SHRI B. K. GADHVI: I Will read Article SHRI B.K. GADHVI: We are not sup 151. Article 151 says: posed to give any reason
liThe reports of the Comptroller and SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI (Guwahati): Auditor General of India relating to the The House a gOing to be over on the 15th. If accounts of the Unton shall be submit· the report IS not laid by the 15th, then the ted to the President, who shall cause report shall have to wait till September. them to be laid before each House of Therefore, It depends on case to case. If in Parliament. " case Parliament IS not In seSSion, the report may be submitted after 20 or 25 days. But in So, there is no stipulated penod. I Will the case of an Important report like thIS, submit that there IS no delay. (Interruptions) v\lhon Parliament IS 10 session and it was gOtng to be over by the 10th. It was lOcum PROF. N.G. RANGA (Guntur): Are we bont on the part of tne Ftnance Ministry to lay to have a debate on this? What is all tillS? It before the 10th or at least now before the Why do you not call them to your Chamber 15th The only thing IS, It has to be sent to the and diSCUSS it with them? PresIdent and the President shall cause it to be laid on the Table. SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWOHARY: It should be immediately placed on the Table PROF. MADHU DANOAVATE: There 7 MAY 11, 1989 8
Is no scope for comments, there is no seape SHRIS0MNATHCHATTERJEE: Proc for edltlng or any processing whatsoever. essing for what purpose? (/nte"UCllions) You should direct them to fay it on the Table. SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Why proc SHRt B.K. GADHVI: We have to read h essing is required? (/nte"uptJons) and .. have to send it to the President. SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: You SHAI INDRAJIT GUPTA: May I draw protect the dignity of the House. (/nts"up your attention to the fact that in reply to my tions) question, the hon. Minister has said, III am n01 going to say anything; I am not going to SHRI C. MADHAV REDOI (Adilabad): reply whether the report has been sent tothe The reports can go to various Ministries Ministry of Defence or not"? concerned including Defence Ministry. But immediately the report should be Jaid on the SHRI B.K. GADHVI: I have not said like Table of the House. There is nothing that the that. Government can do with it.. (Inte"uptions)
SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: I take it that SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Before it is they have passed it on to the Ministry of laid, the concerned Ministry is interested Defence for their comments. This is highly because of the strictures passed against it irregular; this sort of a thing is being done in by the CAG. Before it is laid here, it cannot be the nameof processing. Beforethat, it should sent to that Ministry for their comments. be laid on the Table of the House. They must put it here on the Table of the House ... (Interruptions) SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARV: No processing is required to be done. SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: To protect the dignity of the House is your concern ... SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: He has ( Interruptions) admitted that the report was submitted to the Government on the 27th April. And it IS MR. SPEAKER: I do not think they can obligatory on the part of the Government to change anything in this. lay the report on the Table of the House as soon as possible. Sir, the report has n01 yet PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: You been sent to the President Ithink. It has gone are right. Processing would mean that they to the Defence Ministry, which is not at all would go through the report, make neces necessary. Why has the report been sent to sary alternations and then place it. They are the Defence Ministry for their comments? not permitted to do so. You have rightly said Their comments are not necessary. (/nter that they are not allowed to tamper with the rupfions) report ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: Sir, SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: The exact one relevant question you may ask the report of the CAG should be laid on the Ministry, as to what they are processing. Table of the House. Why has that report That is only the relevant question ... (Inter· been sent to the Defence Ministry for their ruptlons) comments before it is laid on the Table of the House? .. (Interruptions) tAR SPEAKER: There is no relevance. SHRI B.K. GAOHV1: As soon as the processing is over, it will be laid on the Table of the House. I assure that this Government SHRI BASUDEB ACHAAIA: Sir. it is would never tamper with the report of the here in the Constitution ... (Interruptions) CAG ... (Interruptions) VAISAKHA 211 1911 (SAKA)
SMAI BASUOE8 ACHARIA: Why proc" AN. HON. MEMBER: They do not W8l't essing is r.quired? .. (lnt9"uptions) that. .. (Interruptions)
PROF. MAOHU DANDAVATE: Kindly PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: What.. ask the hone Minister, what does he mean by ever Bofors touches, there is complication ••• the term 'processing' •.• (Interruptions) ( Interruptions)
SHRI BAOUOee ACHARIA: You say MR. SPEAKER: Article 151 reads: that compilation would be required. Why compilation is required? .• (Interruptions) "The reports of the Comptroller and Auditor-Gsneralof India relating to the SHRISOMNATHCHATTERJEE: What accounts of the UnIOn shaU be submit is meant by compilation? .. (lnterruptions) ted to the Prestdent, who shall causa them to be laid before each House of SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: You Parliament. " know that in regard to the report on subma rines, it was laid on the Table of the House at the end of the session ... (Interruptions) Please do in accordance with it as soon as possible. SHRI B.K. GADHVI: I said about proce dure and processing and as soon as It IS ( Interruptions) over, we will lay it on the Table of the House. I cannot give any assurance whether it will SHRI B.K. GADHVI: Agreed Sir. My be laid in this session or in the next sessIon ... only point I was making that the report will be ( Interruptions) placed before the House and that there is no time stipulation. There is no limitation stipu SHRISAIFUDDINCHOWDHARY: Why lated. Time is not stipulated under Article not? 151. There is no time limitation ... (Interrup tIOns) SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: The report should be laid on the Table of the House In SHRI SHANTAAAM NAIK (Panaji): You this session itself ... (Interruptions) cannot dictate the Government.. (Interrup tfons) SHRr INORAJIT GUPTA: Sir, what is your difficu~y in giving a direction to the MR. SPEAKER: I have expressed your Minister to lay it on the Table of the House sentiments to him. wtthin this session? ... (Interruptions) PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, what SHAI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY. IS your dIrection? Whether there will be another sec;sion, who knows that ... (Interruptions) ( Interruptions)
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: You direct MR. SPEAKER: My direction is that the Government to lay the report on the they should lay it on the Table of the House Table of the House before the House ad as soon as poSSible. journs ... (Interruptions) ( Interruptions)
SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Sir, if it ;s laid in this session. the PAC will be able to PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Before take note of the report. Otherwise, how will the adjournment of the House ... (/ntflt1"l.J) be PAC take note of that? .. (/nterruptions) tions) 11 MAY 11,1989 12
MA. SPEAKER: Mr. Gadhvi, you see MR. SPEAKER: Yes. the sentiments of the House and do it ac cordingly. PROF. MADHU DANOAVATE: Before the adjournment of the House or before our ( Interruptions) death, which ever is eartier.
PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Is it the KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE intention of the ruting party to suppress the (Jadhavpur): I would like to draw your atten report? tion to the fact that serious violation had taken place regarding use of PM Relief Fund SHRI SHANTARAM NAtK: You cannot during Janata regime. It is a very serious riieate the period. matter ... (Interruptions)
SHRI B.K. GADHVI: We do not want to [ Translation] surpress it from Parliament. (Interruption) The report is to be seen and it is to be MR. SPEAKER: Please give it to me in processed right upto the level of FM. As writing. I will get it examined. explained earlier by me, the Fmance Minis ter arrived here only three days back. There [EnO/ish] fore, after our processing, it w:1I be senttothe President. And then it will be laid on the KUMARI MAMATA BANERJt:t:: One Table of the House. Under Article 151, the member of a particular political party mis President shall cause it to be laid on the used this Fund ... (Interruptions) Table of the House. MR. SPEAKER: Ido not know. How can MR. SPEAKER: Do it expeditiously. I do it? But let me see It.
SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWOHARY: KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: It is What do you mean by 'processing'? most important...
SHRI B.K. GADHVI: Processing means MR. SPEAKER: I cannot say offhand. reading of the report, going into the report, submitting it to the President, then President SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: The Pan also going through the report ... chaya! Bill as of now is not before the House. Hut threats are being given by one of the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: The members of this House that in case it is Minister says: "Processing means reading of brought and passed, they will repeal it. the report."Dowetake itforgranted that th~y have not read the report so far? MR. SPEAKER: It is a free coulltry.
SHRI B.K. GADHVl: I sayan behalf of SHRI SHANTARAM NA1K: Unless the the Government that processmg Includes Bill,s brought before the House, threat can .. reading of the report also. It will go to the not be given. 11 amounts to breach of privi President. President, ~ he thinks fit, will also lege of the Members of the House. They are go through the report. Thereafter, the Presi~' threatening that "if you bring the Bill and pass dent can cause it to lay on the Table of t"9 it I we will do this and we will do that" ... House. ( Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I would like you to take ( TranslatIon] expeditious steps to put it before the House. MR. SPEAKER: Shanta Ramji, it is a SHRI SAIFUODIN CHOWDHARY: In free country. soma body will say you should this session? enact a laws while some others would stresa 13 VAISAKHA 21,1911 (SAKA) that you should not pass ~an act. It is your [Translation) Govarnm,nt and you are free to make laws. SHRI RAJ KUMAR RAt (Ghosi): 1have [EngHsh) given In writing about Swadeshi Cotton Uih at Mhow. Notice has also been given about SHRf SHANTA RAM NAIK: The House it One thousand labourers are going to be is supreme. Nobody can give threats in thlS r(;ndered jobless just due to the mistake of manner. Let him come here and speak He the Government Government is not doing cannot give threat from outside ... (Int(}rrup· anything in this regard. tions) (English] [ Translation] PflOF. MADHU DANDAVATE: ~'ir, MR. SPEAKER: BairagiJI, you may yAst~Hda.y you ob;erved that the question of speak. appoIntment of PAC Chairman is under your consldel ation and you are trying to find out SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI (Mandsaur) the solution, We want to know whether the Sir, I would like to submit that session IS solution will arrive before we adjourn. drawing to an end and Government had SClld that the report of Bachawat Wage Board fOI Mn SPEAKER: Yes, Sir, sure. Surely Journalists would be presented by 31 st M ly it w,11 Jrnve. I am thinking about ~. I am And now hardly 10·15 days are left. It Will be tDlktng t:lbout It, I am getting all the material very kind of the Government If It gIves the &bOLJt It and I Will also talk to you, whatever latest position and progress in regard to tile It IS Look here, anybody can make mrstakes report on this matter. It IS a very importnnt WIth fJOOd IntentIons In dOing something. issue. Now we will do whatever we can We have to fInd soene way out. I have noted down your MR SPEAKER: Please note what hns spntlments nnd I Will see what can be done. been stated by BairagiJi. Now I proceed further. PROF N.G. RANGA: Mr. Speaker, Sir, With rOGard to thiS partIcular question of [English] appointing the ChaIrman of the PAC, it was never the intentIon of Parliament that some .. body who 13 dictated by some particular DR. DATTA SAMANT (Bombay Sauln OPPO'-,Itlon party Dione has got to be ae Central): About 600 VIllagers wpre e~ACU cf'pted by the Speaker Secondly, when we ated from Nagpur because of he~vy fire In sugge~ted, I was then the Chairman of the the Ordnance Depot. Again yesterday In thp PAC On behalf of the Ruling party, I made Poona Ordnance Depot there wns fire Stdl rn,'~(J1f ,o~pon5jble in suggesting that an the fire IS going on. Both the ordnance dp Opf'CI "Ilton Memb€r should be apPOinted as pots are under fire. Thousands of people the Chdltl11dn, as far as It IS possible. The have been affected ... UnterruptlOl1s) then PnfT'tJ ~J1lnl5tel Pand!t JawaharJaJ Nehru he,H.h·)d my adVice c.1nd then the ~iarted this [ Translation] present process At that time wo are hoping that tht~rc would be only one consolidated MR. SPEAKER: Please give It to f1'1tJ In Opr"O~.l~tjon p~~rt)' or () mJjorOpposition party, writing. ttldt IS. hZiVlrlg more thnn fifty Members. But It h.) -, IH)V(-l( I1dP~'8ned The Speaker always [English] exurct:·ed hl~ dl5cretlon and thts time the gcr.tleman whom you have indicated. has DR. DA ITA SAMANT: Let the Govern been 0 M~mber of this House for how many ment make a statement on it. yeats, yOu ..,hould know. He has been a 15 MAV 1',1989 18
Memb8r for more than ten years. Does he MR. SPEAKER: The questiqn is th .. not deI8tW it? Is it not justifiable on your part the Rules Committee is always meeting off and on hit part also to accept to be nomi and on and the hon. Members oan always nated IS the Chairman? Since you have refer thetropinions. Prof. Ringa has so beatl good enough to spot him as a worthy of many times written and so many new inno being the Chairman, I do not want the Speaker vations he wanted to be included in the to insult the House, to insult the Member and Rules. to insult the group that he has represented here in this House in great dignity, by chang PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Ad ing your decision. Thank you. journment Motion may also be included.
SHRI CHANDRA PRATAP NARAIN MR. SPEAKER: Anyway, we can do it SINGH (Padrauna): Sir, I would like to bring and we are always considering these new to your attention once again unfortunately proposals and there are some new ones that within the present rules, sometimes which have been incorporated. We are brinO Members like to raise certain issues of grave ing out a new book on rules now. If anythrng importance, of national importance. but more is to be done, you are welcome to somehow they fall along the line and do not suggest and I will put it before the Rules manage to institute a particular debate. We Committee. have been seeing what has been happening because of certain leaks or sometimes ~ven SHAI CHANDRA PRATAP NARAIN because of certain lacuna in the rules of th~ SINGH: It is not just a suggestion. A treason House. Sir, you have very pointedly many a able offence is Ilot debated in the House and time said that you are governed by rules and no prosecution takes place. Whereas issues regulations of the House. But as the rules are like 'sati' and under the new Drug Act people an on-going process, don't you think that can be punished and hanged. It is not a there needs to be a certain codification? question that I should give it in writing, this is What the hon. Members just now were agi somethmg which should be automatic to tated about is in a way something that they present the daily occurrence what is hap could be agitated about because the rules do pening in Parliament. not say that a certain paper should be placed within a particular time. Sim ilarly, I asked for MR. SPEAKER: That is not the thing. a Half-an-Hour discussion on the various The question is that we h~V9 to go through leakages and the Official Secrets Act in the process. But the Business Advisoi)' March. What has been happening unfortu Committee IS to allot the time for certain nately is because of the obsolete Act of 1923 discussions. There tS a list in which there are and the rules of this House which we have so many discussions under Rule 193 land framed for ourselves. I have not been pe rm It other things. These have to be sorted out in ted. Unless we keep alT,ending them, If a the B.A.C and they sort them out. I am democracy does not keep codifying its rules subject to that and they are put before you. and regulations and leaves it just to certain considerations that have been done earllor, SHRI CHANDRA PRATAP NARAIN I am afraid we Will have the hassles that we SINGH: Is not treason important? Is not a have been having. Like in a Short Notice Short Notice Question on treason impor Question, we do not get a reply that it has tant? Should we not get it in writing also that been rejected, on a Privilege Motion we do rt has been rejected? not get a reply that it has been rEtJected, unless we gat up and make a racket. So. Sir. MR. SPEAKER: You are all informed. I would request you and the hon. Members thai should we or should we not get ~ in DR. KRUPASINDHU BHot (Sam writing that a particular question or a discus balpur): Sir, under rule 184, I have given a sion has been (ejected? motion about the abrogation of the Article 75 11 VAISAKHA 21.1911 i(SAKA) 1. of th. Constitution because we gave a Privi· Thjs has to be discussed. lege Motion against Mr. A.K. Sen and Shri V.P. Singh. But you told that this thing has to [ Translation] be discussed in the House and said, l·you fix the norm ".If somebody leaks out some secret SHRtBALKAvtBAIRAGI: Mr. Speaker, or violates oath of secrecy as a Minister, the Sir, Of.. Shei has rightly caned Qandavateji norms should be fixed for aU time and de as Oraunacharya. cided on the floor of the House. It is yet to be discussed here. Sir, we are very miJch terri .. MR. SPEAKER: Alright. fied and horrified as junior Members of p~( liament by hearing the hon. Dronacharyaji, SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGt: Whosoever Prof. Madhu Dandavate, his ejaculatory becomes him disciple like Draunacharya. aggressiveness. Myfriend, Shri Chowdhary, gets him thumb cut off and you can notice is predicting like Jean Dickson. that in this Central Hall there a're a number of such disciples who are without thumbs. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: A de famatory remark, comparing me with Dro [English) nacharya. It is insult to an Dronacharya. SHRI BHADRESWAR TANTI (Kalis DR. KRUPASINDHU SHOI: Sir I only bor): The dastardly killing on 7th April 1989 want your ruling on this. at RaJapukhuri in Assam-Nagaland bord~r was raised by me and you were pleased to SHRI HAROOBHAI MEHTA (Ahme call for the reports on two occasions. May I dabad): Sir the papers have published the know whether the report has come? reports about the Aircrash that took place In Ahmedabad in October ~ OS8. Even some [ Tr;)ns/ation] newspapers have written letters, The House is not getting an opportunity to discuss the MR. SPEAKER: What can I do? I have report. air eady allowed a diScussion on it.
MR. SPEAKER: We have admitted It. lEng/Ish] But we could not find time, That IS the only problem. We discussed it in the B.A.C. and SHf11 8~iAOAESWAA TANTI: What the Members also agreed that we should about the report. Sir? discuss it in the House. The only question IS the lack of time. [ Trans/,ltion)
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: SIr, the MR SPEAKER: What have I to do, youth of our country are today holding diSCUSSIon has already been held. meetings and convontions. They are de manding that the right to work should be [English] included in the Fundamental Rights. SHRIBHADRESWARTANTI: Butwhat MR. SPEAKER: You can bring It out In about the report, Sir? a discussion on the subject. I will see. You are always welcome to bring it out In a discussion on this subject, 'Unemploymont'. MR. SPEAKER: What more can I do?
SHRISAIFUDOINCHOWDHARY: Only SHRI BH/\DRESWAR TANTI: The discussion can't help. Sir. matter ;s very important, Sir.
MR. SPEAKER: This has to be done. MR. SPEAKER; I do notknofl about it. 1i MAV 11,1989 Papm Laid 20
SHAI C. MADHAV REDDI: Sjr, t 5ug have admitted, but the fact remains that it gestthatthe order of the items on the Agenda should be given priority. Today h shOuld be ~ be slightly changed so that we may discussed because from Orissa distress take up discussions under Rule 193 today. reports are coming that 12 people were. Ther. are four discussions under Rule 193 ( Int9rruptions) which .relisted and they can be disposed of today and tomorrow we can take up the Bills. MR. SPEAKER: let us see. Your State as welt as Raiasthan, they are all affected. Now, Paper~ Laid. Shri Z.R. Ansari.
SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY 11.31 hrs. (Pun): Sir. the most important problem fac· ingthe nation now is the shortage of drinkmg PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE water. So, kindly immediately get this sub· ject discussed here. (Interruptions) lEngllsh]
SHRt BASUDEB ACHARIA: In the Annual Report of the Review on Indian Business Advisory Committee also it was Institute of Forest Management, Bho decided. pal, 1987·88 and a statement re-delay In laying these papers MR. SPEAKER: We allowed it. THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY: You MINISTRYOFCIVILAVIATION AND TOUR have allowed, Sir. But mv c;ubmission is . ISM (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATll): Sir, on (Interruptions) behalf of Shri Z.R. Ansari. I beg to lay on the Table:- [ Translation] '1) (I) A copy of the Annual Report SHRI VIJOY KUMAR YADAV (Nal (Hindi and English versions) anda): The report of C. and A.G. should be of the Indian Institute of Forest presented here in the form as it has baen Management, Bhopal, for the received. yoar 1987-88 along with Au dited Accounts. MR. SPEAKER: That IS all what I have (Ii) A copy of the ReView (Hindi got here with me. I have not concealed and Enghsh vf:trs'ons) by the anything. There has been no delay on my Government or, the working if oart the Indian Institute of Forest Management, Bhopal, for the y;jo.r 1987-88. (Interruptions) ') ( ~ I A statement (Hindi and English rEnglish) VI?rSlons) showing reasons for delay In laYing the papers men SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Sir, the tioned at (1) above. [Placed in jiscussion on shortage of drinking water Library. See No. LT-7959/89] should be allowed under Rule 193. and not as Calling Attention. We should have dl:'cus Annual Report etc. of and Review on sicn on ~ under Rule 193. We also want to the working of Vayudoot Ltd, New Deihl participate. (Interruptions) '981·82, 1962-83, 191J3..84, 1984-85 and 1985 .. 86. and Statement re-delay In laying these papers MR. SPEAKER: We have alrCflfjy THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE agreed. it is on the agenda. MINISTRYOFCIVILAVtATIONANDTOUR .. I~~M (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): I beg to lay SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY You on the Table:- 21 VAISAf(HA 21. 1911 (SAKA) M9SSII(JIIS ftom R.S. 22
(1) A copy each of the foUowing (v) AnnuaJ Report of !he papers (Hindi and English ver Vayudoot limited, New ,io"l) under au~sQCtbn (1) of Delhi. for the year 1aes- section 619A of the Companies 86 along with audled Act. 1956:- Accounts and comments of the Comptroller and (8) R.view by the Government on Aud~or General thereon. the working of the Vayudoot (Placed in Library. SHNo. Limited, New Delhi, for the LT·7964189] years 1981-82. 1982-83, 1983· 84,1984·85 and 1985-86. (2) A Statement (Hindi and English .. versions) showing reasons for (b) (I) Annual Report of the delay in laying the papers men Vayudoot Limited. New tioned at (1) above. (Placed in Delhi, for the year 1981- Library. See No. 7960 to 79641 82 along w~h Audited 89] Accounts and comments of the Comptroller and Auditor General thereon. [Placed in library, See No. 11.32 hrs. LT-7960/89] MESSAGES FROM RAJYA SABHA (ii) Annual Report of the Vayudoot Limited, New [English1 Delhi, for the year 1982- 83 along with Audited SECRETARY-GENERAL: Sir. I have to Accounts and comments reportthe followmg messages received from of the Comptroller and the Secretary-General of Rajya Sabha: .. Auditor General thereon. [Placed In Library. SeeNo. (i) IIln accordance with the provi .. LT-7961/89] sions of rule 127 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of (iii) Annual· Report of the Business In the RaJya Sabha. Vayudoot Limited, New I am directed to inform the Lok Delhi. for the year 1983- Sabha that the Rajya Sabha at 84 along with AudIted Its Sitting held on the 1Oth May, Accounts and comments 1989, ageed without any of the Comptroller and amendment to the Railways Auditor General thereon. Bill, 1989, which was passed [PlacedinUbrary. SeeNo. by the lok Sabha at its sitting LT-7962/89] held on the 3rd May, 1989.-
(ii) IIln accordance with the provi (iv) Annual Report of the sions of sub·rule (6) of rule Vayudoot Limited, New 196 of the Rules of Procedure Delhi, for th() year 1984· and Conduct of Business in 85 along with Audited the RajyaSabha. lamdirected Accounts and comments to return herewnh the Appro· of the Comptroller and prlation (Railways) No. 3 Bift, Auditor General thereon. 1989, which was passed by (Placed in Library. See No. the Lok Sabha at its sitting l T· 7963189) held on the 3rd May. 1881. MAY 11,1989
and transmitted to the Rajya Hyderabad to Bhubaneswar via Rajahmun. Sabha for its recommend.- dry, Visakhapatnam and Jeypoteto return to 1ions ~and to state that this Hyderabad in the e\iening. This flight is House has no recommenda operating tor about two years. The air strip at tions to make to the Lok Sabha Jeypore is owned by the State Government in regard to the said BilL" of Orissa. There is no wireless machine at this airstrip. During cloudy weather and monsoon season, when there is poor visibil ~y, it becomes very difficult for the flight to 11.33 hr •. find out the weather condition at the airstrip and also to locate the place. The place MATTERS UNDER RULE 377 surrounding the air strip being hilly area, the pilot takes great risk to land there. Some [ Translation] times, the flight has to be cancelled due to poor visibility. This Vayudoot service is pro (I) Demand for railway line viding very good service to the passengers. between Morena and Phooph In Madhya Pradesh Therefore, I request the han. Minister for Civil Aviation to direct the Government of SHAI KAMMODILALJATAV (Morena): Orissa to instal a wireless machine at Jeypore Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is only one train with an operator to receive and despatch which runs on Agra-Bombay lina in Morena Information to help the pilots to land at this air district of Chambal division of Madhya strip smoothly without any risk. Pradesh. There is a metre gauge line from Gwalior to Sheopur Kalan, which serves no [ Trans/ation] purpose. No railway line has been laid so far between Morena and Phooph. The distance (iii) Demand for provision of a between the two places is approximately railway link to Tonk In Ra 100 k.rns. jasthan and action on sur· vey report for railway line There are only a very few buses in this between Sawal Madhopur area, and there are no railway facilities here. and Tonk People have to face lot of difficulties on that account in respect of passenger and freight SHRI BANWARI LAL BAIRWA (Tonk): traffic. Mr. Speaker, Sir, so far, there has been no railway line in my parliamentary consthu I, therefore, urge upon the Han. Railway ency Le. Tonk in Rajasthan. After independ Minister to issue orders immediately for the ence, a ray of development had downed construction of a railway line from Morena to even on this district. New means of educa Pooph after getting a survey conducted in tion and agriculture also reach here. People this regard. were Imparted knowledge of agriculture implements by scienlnic methods but in [English] absence of railway facilities, we could not go ah ead on the path of progress. Today we are (IQ Demand for Installing a wir.· In the period of renaissance in this country less machine at Jaypor. In and without railways we have been groping Orissa for Saf. and Smooth in the dark. Since last 10 years. I have been operation of Vayudoot compaigning for the provision of a railway Flights link to Tonk and have been raising this issue everywhere at variOus steps in this regard. SHRt K. PRADHANf (Nowrangpur): On my special request, a survey was con There is a Vayudoot Service operating from ducted for the construction of a railway Une VAfSAKHA 21, 1t11'(SAKA)
ttom S.wal MadhpCr to Tonk durinq the fast accorded for the setting upof a radb .teton few years. Survey report has also bee,.. in the border district of Barmet in Rajasthan submitted to the Ministry but 1his matter Is abOut 1i". years back and tiff ~y only a betng postpontd In tho name of constraints building for the radio station has been con ... of resources. I. therefore, urge upon the structed and no macninery has been In· Government to take immediate and positive stalled therein. Th. pace of constructfon of steps in thIs rtgard. the studio is also very slow.
(English] I, therefore, urge upon the Ministery of Information and broadcasting to set up a (Iv) Demand to provision of radio station at the district headquarters in sophisticated rlg8 etc. for the border district of Barmer in Rajasthan drilling deep tubeweUs In w~h in three months so that people living in Kalahandl and BoJanglr dis this far·flung area of Barmer-district might be tricts of OrJssato meet drink benflted, Ing water scarcity in the region. (Eng/ish]
SHRI JAGANNATH PATTNAIK (vi) Demand for disclosing facts {Kalahandi}: Acute shortage of drinking water to Parliament before .'gn in various parts of the country has become a Ing treaty on export of toxic matter of grave concern. The problem is wastes from Industrlalt_d more serious in hilly areas where due to countries to third World communication problem digging of tubew countries. ells w~h sophisticated rigs is n01 possible, In drought prone areas like Kalahandi a'nd SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE Bolangir in the State of Orissa, due to large (Bolpur): It is understood that an Interna scale devastation of forest, water sources tional Convention to control the transport have gone low. and disposal of hazardous waste was agreed by representatives of more than 100 coun The problem of cattle, Qjrds and other tries sometimes in March, 1989. The Con animals has become all th~more serious, A vention supposedly aims to prevent illegal war footing strategy shourd be devised and export of toxic wastes from industrialised implemented by adeqlJate finC\ncial assIs countries to developing nations. It is be .. tance and supply of ,sophisticated rigs, ve lieved to provide that countries exporting hicles and other $quipment for drilling deep wastes should have the written assent of tubewells. All preventive and precautionary importing countries for each specific cargo measures should be taken to ensure that and for management of waste in 'environ unhygienic condition and unclean water Will mentally sound" manner which of course not lead to any epidemic. A national level has not been defined. micro-plan should be adopted to ensure that there will not be any shortage of drinking The Conventton, however, has not made water at least by 2000 A.D. the countries which produce wastes Hable for Its ultimate dispo~al and does not prevent [ Translation] importation of wastes to countries which do not have the same level of facilitie. and (v) Demand for commissioning technology as exporting nations nor does it the proposed radio stat Ion insist on sophisticated verification proce ... at Barm., In Rajasthan dura inctuding inspection of disposet sit... 4t ;s reported that no specWic measurrs have SHR1 VIRDHI CHANOER JAIN been included in the Treaty to discourage (Barmat): Mr. Speaker, Sir, sanction was the international transport of wastes. 1tIJ- 21, '.... Und.r MAY 11, 1989
[$t\ $emn.th Chatterjee) ent difficLlIt 8Jt~t I woukl urge the Goy· emment that 0) affactive measure. shoUld cording to G.... n peace, the environmental be taken to ensure uninterrupted supply of action group. the demands of developing raw material; (ii) the question of waiving (he oationsforprotedion from internationatwS$te customs duty on imports of ferrous sctap or I trade have largely betn ignored and the to bring it to the level prior to the escalation Treaty has legalised the export of wasta to in international prices of scrap and; (iii) the the Third countries. question of rationalisation of excise duty by reducing it to Rs. 105/- per tonna at April 17.38 hr •• 19771eve1 may kindly be considered sympa theticaJly ~ {MR. OEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chai~ [ Translation] It is not known whether India has signed the Convention regarding the transport and (vII) Demand for urgent steps to disposal of hazardous wastes. Our national provide drinking and Irriga interest will be seriously jeopardised if India tion water In Palamau and becomes a party to the Convention without Hazarlbagh districts of Bihar disclosing the facts fully to the Parliament and people as a whole. In the circumstances, 1 demand that the full facts should ba dis SHRI VOGESHWAR PRASAD VO closed by the Government at the earliest GESH (Chatra): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, opportunity and it should not sign any treaty with the spring season coming to an end. the which compromises our national interest. scorching heat of summer is gaining inten sity and with the increase in heat the drinking (vii) Demand for effective meas water crisis in the hill areas of Bihar is deep ures to ensure un-inter ening further. Due to scanty rainfall this year, rupted supply of raw materi rab; as well kharif crops have almost been als to electric Arc furnace destroyed and a famine like situation has Industry and raUonalising developed. Apart from that, drinking water customs and excise duty on crisis, especially in latahar, Chandwa. ferrous scrap. Balumath, Manatu. Panki blocks in Palamau district in Bihar has been depending further. SHRI RAM NARAIN SINGH (Bhiwani): Chatra, Pratappur, Hanterganj blocks in The Electric Ar-c Furnace Industry in the Hazaribagh district and Dumaria,lmamganj, country which supplies 70 Per cent of bars Amas, Barachatti, Mohanpur and Fatehpur and rods requirement in the priority sector of blocks in Gaya district are also hit by this house construction as also special alloy steel crisis. Moisture of land has already dried up for engineering, automobile and transport and water level is fast going down. There has industries besides railways and other impor been drinking water crisis and all sources of tant segments of national economy. has irrigation. whatever were there. have also been passing through a critical phase be failed. cause of inadequate availability of basic raw material resulting in heavy financial losses. Excise duty on its products which was ex In view of above difficutties, J would like empted till April, 1979 has been increased to make an appeal to the Government to fram Rs.· 383/.. per tonne to Rs. 525/· per provide drinking water and irrigation facilities tonne bringing it a1 par with the integrated to the people on a what footing. Besides, steel plantt. keeping in view that it is mo$tly a stony ares, I would like to request the Government to send diamond boring rigs in .arg. number to To salVage the industry from the pres- that area. I 21 ",.""tJrxItJ, VAtSAI REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPL&j (IX) Dtmand for ftnanclal assIs (AMENDMENT) BILL tance to Vldy ...gar Unlver. slty In Welt Bengal {English] MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, weare SHRI BASUOea ACHARIA (Bankura): taking up item No.4, Consideration and Sir, it has become impossible for the Univer.. Passtng of R&presentation of the People sity of Calcutta alone to respond 10 the need (Amendment) Bill. of the rising student population for higher education in West Bengal. A 1001., increase in Shri 8. Shankaranand. the seats allotted 10 Post-Graduate Studies of Calcutta University was a meagre attempt THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUS .. to accommodate this rush. So, the urgency TICE AND MINISTER OF WATER RE· of establishing a new university was seri SOURCES (SHRI B. SHANKARANAND): I ously felt. beg to move: "That the Bill further to amend the In November, 1975, a twelve-member Representation of the Peopl. committee was appointed, under the chair .. Act, 1950, be taken into considera manshipofthethen Education Minister, which tion." proposed for opening of Vidyasagar Univer sity as a teaching-cum-affiliating university. Mr. Deputy"Speaker, Sir, the Bill is a In framing the guidelines for the course cur sequel to the Constitution (Sixty-first Amend riculum, the committee in suggested blend .. ment) Act, 1988 amending article 326, The ing of non-traditional subjects with traditional Amendment has come Into force with effect subjects. On this basis, on 24th June, 1981, from 28th March, 1989 having been ratified Vidyasagar University Act as unantmously by the legislatures of mora than one half of adopted in the Wastage Bengal LegislatIve the States, as required by the proviso to Assembly. article 368 (2) of the Constitution. It has reduced the age of vot.ng from 21 to 18 years. Sir, the State Government has already spent a sum of nearly As. 7 crores. But the Section 19 (a) of the Representation of UGC has not granted a single paisa till this the People Act. 1950 specifies the age of date. In spite of this financial burden. the voting as 21. After the Constitution (Sixty .. Univ9rshy is running 13 departments of non first Amendment) Act. 1988 this has to be traditional. and traditional subjects and 12 amended wtth retrospective effect from 28· departments at the post-graduate level. 3-1989. AlmOst 30,000 students from 32 affiliated colleges are studying under this university. Under Section 14(b)ofthe 1950 Act, the IIquallfymg date" in relation to the prepara tion or revision of every electoral roll means Underthes8 circumstances, I urge upon the 1st day of January of the year in which n the Government to release funds for the IS so prepared or revised. Elections are due Vidyasagar University and save this newly this year and if the electoral roUs are revised created institution of Higher learntng in West and updated, in the usual manner, with 1st Bengal. January, 1989 as the quaUfYlng date. the younger generation in the age group of 1a to 21 which has become entitled to vat. from s, MAY 11, 18$9 (Sh. B. Shankaranand] support to this BRI. It was last year In Oecem· ber that we have passed the ConstlMion 28-3-1989 would not be able to exercise Amendment Bill, the 61 st Amendment Bill. their riOht to vote in the ensuing elections. The intention behind Iowefino the voting age As a matter of' fact. this should have it not that the new voters should wait for a been the first Amondtnent Bill but for further period before taking part in the next constitutional requirement btcause unless elections. It is. therefore, proposed to amend the Constitution is amended, it Is advised Section 14 (b) with a view to providing that that this particular Section 19 of the Repre the 'qualifying date", in relation to the prepa sentation of People Act, 1950 cannot be ration or revision of every electoral roll under amended. It was indicated to the House at Part .. 111 of the said Act, shall be the 15t day of that stage that the amendment of this Sec April, 1989. In fact, the Eledion Commission tion would be necessary to see that this is had already initiated the necessary steps for given effect to. But w~h regard to the ad· enrolling all those who attained the age of 18 vance action taken by the Election Commis as on 1-4-1989 in all the States and the sion for enrolment of voters, I am happy that Union territories so that the task of updating action has been taken and instructions have the etactoral roO covering also the new cate been issued to see that the youth who attain gory of electors during the current year is not the age of 18 years as on 1-4-1989 are delayed on any account. Therefore, a provi enrolled as voters. As far as that goes, there sion has been added in the Bill to validate all is no objection because such an advance things done and alt steps taken in anticipa action is necessary so that we may go to tion by the Election Commission. polls by December based on the new elec toral rolls. But the Clause dealing with the It is further proposed to amend Section validation of all acts done by the Commis 9 of the 1950 Act for empowering the Elec sion or by any staff of the Election Commis tion Commission to consolidate all informa sion, is being validated. I do not understand tion relating to delimitation of Parliamentary the reasons for this because I have informa and Assembly constituencies. tion that in some of the States, the electoral rolls had already been published. I would like The Fourth Schedule to the 1950 Act to know from the hon. Minister whether it is specifies the local authorities for pu rposes of a fact. If the electoral rolls had been pre elections to legislative Councils. The State pared and then kept ready for publication Government of Maharashtra has informed then it is O.K. But if the electoral rolls had us that Town Committees listed in the said already been published and Hthey are invit Schedule under the heading "Maharashtra" ing claims and objections under the Repre no longer exist. It is, therefore, proposed to sentation of the People Act, 1950. then it is delete this item from the Schedule. a very serious matter because it may lead to various complications; people may go to I am sure that the House would pass the Court because the electoral rolls which are Bill unanimously. Sir, I commend the Bill for not valid, cannot be published for inviting the consideration of the House. claims and objections. If that has been done, as it is reported and that is sought to be MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Motion validated, then there is a serious lacu.,a in moved: this Bill. It has to be looked into. May be, perhaps you have to publish the electoral -rhat the BiU further to amend the rolls again 10 see that they conform to the Representation of the People Ad, rules. 1950 be taken into consideration. ' Regarding the change of the quallfVing SHRI C. MADHAV REDO I (Adilabad): date from first of January to first of April, I Mr. Deputy Speak.r~ Sir, I rise to extend my presume that ~ is only for this year. But Hit is VAISAKHA21. 191'1 (SAKA) fot all time to GOtAe, then there is serious With these words, I supporttha BHI. objection. if it is only for this particular year when we have to ravise the e'ectoral roUs MR. DEPUTY ·SPEAKER: Shrl ViJav N. basad on 18 years of age, then it is all right. Patil ... lrequestthehon. UamberstobaWMy brief. Many Members are interested to ••• SHRtSHANTARAMNAIK(Panaji): You Only two hours have been attotter'. SO, I have mentioned that. request the Members to be verly brief. PIeUe taker five minutes. SHRI C. MADHAV REODI: I presume that it is so. That is the meaning. OtherWise, SHRI VIJAY N. PATll (Erandol): Mr. ~ the Government ;s going to change for a" Deputy-Speaker, Sir, this is an enabling time to come, then there is a serious objec· provision for the Election Commission to tion. The point is that on the first of January gear up its machinery and prepare for th. every year, electoral rolls are being revIsed etact;ons. The hon. Minister has already automatically by the Chief Electoral Officers mentioned that the first of April 1989 is of the State. The rolls are revised, published meant only for this particular ejection year. and so on. There is a procedure laid down 10 Afterwards, the electoral reforms will be this regard. That should be continued. Only prepared as usual and published in January forthe current year, the qualifying date should every year. be first of April and not for all time to come. That is be clarified. We know that the Britishers tried to show that they were bringing a partial d. Sir. the information relating to the De· moe racy in India. Some people-the peopfe limitation of Parliamentary and Assembly who were paying the land revenue above a Constituencies seems to have been com· certain limit or some other educated people piled, for which Section 9 is to be amended. or a selected class of people-were allowed The Government is going to amend Section to vote. But after getting Independence, W. 9 of the 1950 Act for empowering the Elec .. have brought in so many progressive meas tlon Commission to consolidate all informa· ures. We have reduced the age of voting to tion relating to Delimitation of Parliamentary 18 years which is one of the most progrea ... and Assembly Constituencies. I am not able sive measures adopted by our young Prime to understand this. Why does the Govern· Minister and supported by almost all sec ment require this amendment to Section 9? tIons of the society and majority of the people This requires certain clarification because In India. as ~ is the hone Minister pointed out last time that the Defim~atjon of Constituencies IS not Shn Madhav Reddiji should not have going to be taken up this year because of the any fear in his mind about empowering the fact that it is likely to be delayed. Advance Election Commission for consolidating the action has to be taken by the Government Information about delimitation of different earlier. But it has not been done. Now we constituencies. There are reserved const~u· have to contest the elections on the basis of aneies which are reserved for Schedufed the old Delimitation and there is not gOln9 to Castes faryaars together. Scheduled Castes be any change in the Assembly or Parlla· people from other constituencies do not;.t mentary Constituencies under the Delimita the opportuntty to stand for election because tion of Parliamen1ary and Assembly Con gener any they are allotted seats by any party stituencies Order, 1976. Where is the need In the reserved area only. On the other hand. for empowering the Commission to consoli· the other community people in the reS8fWd date the information?This is an inherent constituencies do not get the opportunity to power of the Commission. Already I the contost and represent the peopl. in that Commission has got that power. Why does area. I can tell you my example. I fought the" the Govemment need amendmtnt to Sec eleelton in 1978 from Dhule Const~uencv .. tion 91 This requires cJarHication. One seat of Scheduled T~ was to be • Rep. 01 PfIOpkl MAY 11,1989 (Amdt) 811 38 [Sh. Vijay N. Peil] more aspect that when mora and more __ people are to be given opportunities in our incF.8ased in Maharashtra. And from Chan democratic set up, there should be certain drapur. in altthe earlier three elections, from limits at certain stages. What I would lik. to ageneral seat, a Scheduled Tribe man used suggest taking this opportunity-although it to come. Ther. is also 22.S per cent Sched is not directly related to this BilJ-is that there uled Tribes popuJation in one constituency in should be some restriction or limitation for a Chandrapur. In my constituency, the popula person to remain in power. For example. a tton of Scheduled Tribes was 23. 1 per cent. person at the central level should not be What happened was that both the seats in allowed to continue after ten years as a Chute got reserved and reservation was cabinet minister. Exceptions can be made removed in chandrapur. If this is rotated, for the leader or the deputy leader of the then people can get the chance turn by turn. House and the Opposition leaders, so that This is high time that we have to think of this other young and new people will get oppor rotation and think of this shifting of constitu tunities. This is my suggestion forconsidera ency. That is why, this enabling provisior tion atthe appropriate time. Because you are has been brought. bri nging more and more people in the demo cratic process who will want to make their I would like to urge upon the hon. Minis contribution directly. Instead of voting their ter and the Prime Minister: you have reduced representatives they would like to directly the age of voting. it is welcomed by all, but come to the House and contribute to the are you going to allow them to only vote or democratic process of welfare in this coun allow them to participate in the democratic try. representation also? What I mean to say is: are you going to think of reducing the age SHAI SATYAGOPAL MISRA (Tamluk): limh for filing the nomination for Assembly, The Bill to amend the Representation of Lok Sabha or Rajya Sabha elections? We People's Act 1950 has become necessary in can think otherwise in the case of Rajya accordance with the 61st constitutional Sabha as the Rajya Sabha is the House of Amendment. Elders and really elders should go there and not youth congress or youth Janata or youth This is the recognition of the right of the BJP people. You can increase the age limit younger generation of our country to partici for filing the nomination to Aajya Sabha of 35 pate in the process of electing their repre years. But for Lok Sabha and Assembly sentatives of the Parliament, State Assem seats, na person can vote at the age to 18 blies and other bodies. This was the tong years, after five years experience, he may be standing demand and the result of a demo allowed to contest for Lok Sabha or Assem cratic movement of the students and the bly seats. Even though it is not within the youth of our country. For a long time they scope of this Bill, I am taking this opportunity have been demanding it. Though delayed, it and making my suggestion. Are you going to is better late than never. Therefore I support consider this also? thIS Bill as it is the outcome of the victory of the students and the young movement of our 12.00 hr•• country. About the other amendment, that IS In this connection I would like to point deleting the word 'Town Committees' with out that the young generation of 18 years reference to Maharashtra. I would say that it was given the right for electing their repre should have been done long back. It has sentatives in the municipal elections in West come only now. But this amendment should Bengal during the regime of the Left Front have been brought long ago. government. Since then the younger gen eration of 18 years are enjoying that right in In the end I would like to mention one West Bengal. Now the youth of our country 31 Rep. of PeopIs .VAISAKHA 21. 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt) iii sa wftl.njoy this right as well. entitled to be included in the electoral roUs, are excluded. I request them to take proper I cannot also forget that at that time in steps for this. With these words, I support West Bengal the Congress Party opposed it this Bill. and chaUenged it in the Calcutta High Court and the Supreme Court also. Now they have [ Translation] understood its importance. Perhaps, having been alienated from the people they are SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN thinking of some methods like lowering of (Barmar): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. 'support voting age and bringing Panchayat Bill etc. the Representation of the People's (Amend .. ment) Bill, 1989 moved in the House. This amendment is taken as imple mented since March 28, 1989 and the enu We took a historic steps when youths of meration process is going on throughout the 18 years were given voting rights by lowering country. In this context my suggestion is that voting age from 21 to 18 years under the the Election Commission should take proper constitution (61 st Am endment) Act 1988. It care so that all the young people of 18 years was widely welcomed in the country and the are enrolled in the electoral rolls. It was students are very much pleased with this estimated that about 5 1/2 crores of the step. On this occasion. I would like to ex people who have just completed 18 years press my thanks to our young Prime Minis will be enrolled in the Yoters list. But I do not ter, Shri Rajiv Gandhi who took this very know howfarthis process has gone on. How important step to strengthen democracy in many young v9tBrs have already enrolled the country. With the steps that we have their names-in the electoral rolls? That is to taken to amend the constitution it has be be seen. come necessary to amend the Representa tion of people Act also and the present Bill is lastly, I want to point out some cases, a equal to that process. I fully support it. It which are happening in Tripura. Two cases wotdd ~have, what I feel, put much more are there, where foreigners are included in impact had an amendment been brought, the preparation of voters-list. I only give two forward in the Representation of the People examples. In- Jubarajnagar Assembly Con Act about issuance of photo identity cards to stituency .-part No: 3, Serial No: 285-a the voters. I had been to my constituency person, who is serving as an Officer In and the people in my area totally want that Bangladesh Sunali Bank, has enrolled his photo identrty cards should be issued to name in Tripura's voters list. Another ex voters all over the country. The Government ample is, 22. Dharampur Assembly Con .. has issued identity cards in our border areas. stituency-part No: 28, Serial No: 36. His Identity cards have been issued in Chohtan name is Joynal Mia. He has enrolled his aod Jasailmer districts. It is necessary to name in the voters Jist. He is serving in the have photo identity cards in border areas so Bangladesh Army. All these things are hap that anti-national and foreigners could be pening, particularly in Tripura. I am saying detected and- denied voting rights. But I from my own experience about what had came across certain instances in my con happened in a bye-election in Tripura. I was st~uency especially in Jaisatmer that photo present there. Despite my presence, the identity cards have not been issued to genu contesting candidate, from my party, was ine persons who are supposed to get the not allowed to yote. This had happened in same. They were not issued cards on suspi Tripura. cious ground so as to prevent them trom exercising their franchise. This is also a Therefore, I would urge upon the Gov .. happy situation. I would specialty like to ernment to see that proper steps are taken, make a submission that there should be a so that all the eligible persons are included in provision to issue photo identlty cards In the electoral rolls and those, who are not border areas. Ladakh Region, Sarmets, 39 Rep. of P«Jple MAY 11,1989 (Amdt.) BiN 40 [Sh. Virdhi Chander Jain] far exercised their franchise, other people caste votes for them. It is very necessary to Jaisalmer and border of Punjab. It will be a have photo identity cards to check this prac great achievement if photo identity cards are tice. Concrete steps need to be taken in this issued to people in these areas. regard. The steps ro far taken by Govern ment have been beneficial bu1 until and I was thinking that delimitation of my unless photo identity cards are iSSUed, these constituency will be done. My parliamentary people cannot make proper use of their constituency is spread over 70 square kilo rights. metres.ln area it is equal to Punjab state and the population of the area has increased With these words, I support this Bill. tremendously and our area is making rapid development on account of Indira canal. [English] While the population of the country increased by 2.25 per cent annually, in my constituency SHRI V.S. KRISHNA IYEA (Bangalore it has been 4.5 per cent annually. In this way, South): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the number of voters in my constituency has the amending Bill which has been brought by also gone high. This Parliamentary Constitu the Law Minister. At the same time t must ency consists of 8 Assembly segments and express my dis-appointment at the long the number of voters has also increased awaited electoral reforms. Acomprehensive much. In view of this is necessary to increase Bill is yet to come. Of course, there have the numberof constituencies. It will be highly been certain amendments during the last beneficial if some tangible steps are taken in Session which are welcome but the most this regard. Secondly, there are resentments Important amendment which the Opposition in the Assembly Constituencies that a par and even the Ruling party have been press ticular area is always kept as reserved can· ing for is regarding containing the money stituency for Scheduled Caste. In my con· Influence, liquor influence and muscle power st~uency, the Siwana Assembly segment In the elections. It is the experience of every has all along remained a reserved ronstltu body that money plays an important part and ency right from 1952 till now. Similarly the atfoC"ts the fair and free elections. One of the population of Chauhan Assembly segment suggpstlons made from this side was that has also gone much high. Even after a high electl~ns should be State funded. Unfortu rise in population, the size of the constituen nately it was not accepted by the Govern cies is not being changed. The delimitation ment but at least they should have thought of Programme has been held up. I want that some alternative. We know that cQrtain delimitation work may please be started and people and certain parties are in a position to oonstituencies reserved for scheduled castes amass lot of money for elections but certain and scheduled tribes may be changed. You individuals and parties cannot do that which should take concrete steps in this regard. IS obvious. But unfortunately, Government has not at all thdught about the matter. When I would like to request you once again te, the new lok Sabha was constituted, an issue photo identity cards. This will help In assurance was given in the very first Ad checking bogus voting. There are several dress of the Rashtrapathi that an Erectoral areas in Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan where Reforms Bill will be brought to ensure fair people belonging to caste Hindus imperson and free elections. But this Lok Sabha is ate in the voters belonging to scheduled coming to an end and unfortunately, Gov castes and scheduled tribes. The scheduled ernment has failed to see that elections are castes and scheduled tribes are not allowed held by fair and free means and to give equal to casta their votes. I would like to apprise the opportunity to every party and candidate. hone Minister of Law that there are several The Government has failed in this regard. areas belonging to scheduled castes and scheduled tribes in which people have not so Another important thing in which the 41 Asp. of People VAISAKHA 21,1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) Bill 42 Government has failed during the present elections whether it is this party or that party. Lok Sabha is that they have not taken steps Within one hour of the commencement of to delimit the constituencies which is over voting, bogus voting would have been com due during the current period. Many hon. pleted. Some individuals and some parties Members including Mr. Jain have explained are adopting this method. Even now, w~h all ~. In my constituency, there are eight assem this experience, we have not been able to bly segments. One of the disparities is that in check bogus voting. I think even in the next one constituency, the number ot voters is elections, it will be there. Government must less than 75,000 and in another constitu see to it that this practice is eliminated. The ency, the number is more than two and a half Government says that due to the cost in lakhs. Even if the youngsters of today are volve'd they do not want to introduce the included the number which is less than 75,000 practice of photo identification. Many han. will not increase that much whereas I am told Members have suggested this pradice of that in the other constnuency wher~ there photo identification. Some foolproof arrange .. are two and a half lakhs voters, the number ment must be the~e because elections are has increased to 4 lakhs since it is a city coming very soon. It is not only for Lok Sabha border area and new extensions are coming elections butforU,e Assembly elections also. up. This disparity between one constituency Government must take some steps to pre and the other, not only in the Assembly vent the practit;e of bogus voting by introduc elections but also in the Lok Sabha elections In9 the practice of photo identification. As it must come to an end. Everybody knows is, identification slips are being issued by the about this. I can understand the matter if It is political parties. But officially, you must see an hilly area or H it is an area like La that the office itself must issue the identity kshadweep where there are only 50,000 cards which was there during the previous voters for Lok Sabha elections or if it is the years, particularly in the municipal elections north-eastern region where there are a few which we had in our State. So, it is very number of voters for Lok Sabha elections. necessary that you should issue identity But even in cities like Bangalore, this dispar cards. I hope that at least now, Government ity is going on which should have been of India will think ofthis matter seriously. The removed. I am sure that it is all over now for most Important point ~s to see that money the coming elections. We connot do any and liquor influence are completely abol thing. Anyhow, it is a lapse on the part of the ished. Bogus voting should also be elimi Government and it should have been recti nated completely. So, as far as this Amend fied by now. ment Bill is concerned, , have no objection and I support the Bitl. Another point which many hon. Mem bers have spoken about is regarding keep SHRt SOMNATH RATH (Aska): Mr. ing the same constituencies reserved for the Deputy Speaker Sir, I rise to support this Bill. SCs and STs. The han. Minister also knows Section 9 empowers the Election Commis very well that in our State, a number of sion to maintain the delimitation order upto constituencies are being reserved for the date. As we all know. delimitation has been SCs and STs for the past 30 or 40 years. delayed for some time and by this time, the They should be given opportunities to con nature of the constituencies has changed. In test in other areas also. The Government of some constituencies, population growth is India should take note of this point. So, such that they deserve to be a Scheduled during delimitation, this point should be taken Caste or Scheduled Tribe reserved constitu care of. ency and other constituencies to be general constituencies. Also the Government has Another point which I would like to rightly reduced the voting age from 21 to 18 mention is regarding identity cards. Many years and the Government has been con Members have already spoken about this. gratUlated for this action throughout the This is the experience 01 every candidate for country. As such, it is necessary that the 43 Rep. 01 People MAY 11,1989 (Arndt) iiI 44 [She Somnath Rath] also get help from the Government machin ery. In the present revision of voters' list. delimitation should take place soon so that in names of people who have attained 18 years the Assemblies and the Parliamentary can· of age have been left out and names of those stituencies, the real representatives of those who can hardly become voters have been constituencies are elected. entered. Names of large number 01 bogus voters are being entered in the voters list in For the information of the han. Minister, Bihar. in Orissa even if in a district headquarter or a sub-divisional headquarter, the Assembly I want to give this information to you. I constituency t the scheduled caste and sched did not utter any particular persons name in uled tribe population is more, it is not recog this connection. You are officers. As such nized as the reserved constituency for the you are at liberty to enter the names of simple reason that it happens to be a district people in the voters' list, wherever you want. headquarter constituency or a sub-divisional headquarter const~uency. ~his conception Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last year the should be given a goodby, and whether it is result of Assembly elections in respect of a district headquarter constituency or a sub Islam pur Assembly segment under my con divisional headquarter constituency, if the stituency was declared and my candidate population of that constituency is more for was declared elected in the contest and he the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes, was issued a certificate to this effect. After it should be recognised as a reserved can- two years the same Returning Offtcer de 8t~uency for scheduled castes and sched clared the Congress candidate elected. (Inter uled tribes only, not that because it happens ruptions). Perhaps it is for the first time that to be a sub-divisional or district headquar a thing which took place in Nalanda Con ters, it should be made a general constitu stituency has taken place in the world. In our ency. I would like to know from the hon. state the officers deeply connive with the Ministerwhetherthere is any direction or rule candidates and the elections are won with to that effect. H not, this position may be the help of rifles, guns. bullets and bombs. clarified soon. The Government machinery is widely mis used. All this is done to help the candidate of [ Trans/ation] the ruling party. The Polling Officers, Presid ing Officer and the Police Officials help them. SHRI VIJOY KUMAR YADAV (Nal The genuine voters are not allowed to caste anda): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I whole their votes. It is a commendable thing that heatedly support the proposed amendment youthS of 18 years age will be given the right in the Representation of the People Act. I of voting. If the purpose is served by merely support the amendment for the reason that it granting the right of voting, then it is all right. was a long standing demand of all leftist If this right is confined to paper and in actual parties, progressive parties and youths of practice people do not come to caste their our country. The proposed amendment in votes or they are not allowed to caste their the people's Representation Act will fulfil the votes, it will be a serious matter. above demand and it will receive full support all over the country. SHRI RAM BHAGAT PASWAN (Ros .. era): Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, I am on a I would like to inform the hon. Minister point of order. A lot of bogus voting was done the situation prevailing in Bihar. Here we are in 1he elections that were held in 1977 ... (/ntsr talking of granting voting rights to youths of ruptions) 18. But in Bih~u, even 10 years aged children have been included in the voters' list and [Eng/ish] they caste their votes. They are the wards of influential people who wield power. They MR. OEPUTY SPEAKER: You come to 45 Rep. of People VAISAKHA 21, 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt) BiR 46 the point. be no need of further amendment for this and ~ is also true that the proposed legislation witt SHRI VLJOYKUMAAYADAV: Sir. why be valid for this year only. are they objecting to it? I think these are the hard facts. [English] [ Translation] ... Qualifying date in relation to the prepa .. ration or revision of every electoral roll Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Bihar is the under this Part in the year 1989, shall be State in which total number of votes caste the 1st day of April. 1989." exceed the total number of voters, suppose voter list contains 1000 voters, total number [ Translation] of votes caste come to 1020.1 had raised this point in the Parliament (Interruptions) It means that the qualifying date for revision of every electoral roll in the year I would like to make a suggestion that a 1989 shall be the 1st day of April and for Parliamentary Committee should be consti reVISion of other classes, it will be 1st Janu .. tuted which would go into the facts of misuse ary. So the doubt raised by Shri Madhava of Government machinery and misuse of Reddy is baseless. Amendments have been officers in favour of the ruling party candi made in sections 9-A, 14 and 19 of the date. people Representation Act. Under the pro posed amendment in section 9-A, the Elec If the officers are not independent, you tlon Commission has been empowered to cannot give the guarantee of holding free delim itise the constituency of scheduled and fair elections. With these words, I sup castes and scheduled tribes after the elec port the Bill that has been brought forward In tions. Going by the demand of the time, we the House. are conferring votir,g rights to four crores youths who have attained the age of 18 SHRI SHANKAR LAL (Pali): Mr.Dep years. This has warranted delimitation of uty Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Repre con:;tltuenCles of scheduled castes and sentation of the People (Amendment) Bill, scheduled tribes in different states. In order 1989, moved in the House. to achit"we this end, amendment has been made In sectIon 9-A. This is a very reason Sir, it is true that process has begun to able amendment. In December, our leader add those voters who have attained the age Shri RajivGandhi and his Government made of 18 years and and in order to clear the an amendment in section 29-A of the people doubts raised by Shri Madhav Reddy about Representation Act, making it obligatory for the modality, I would like to read out the the political parties to pledge allegiance to clause 14. The proposed amendment IS quite the constitution. They have to insert a clause clear and is In their party constitution that they have faith in secularism. socialism and unity and integ [English] rity of the country. At that time, some hon. Members of the opposition party opposed it., IIln section 14 of the Principal Act, to but now they are realising that fair and real clause (6), the following proviso Will be elections in our country are possible if politi added, and shall be deemed to have cal parties are committed to the socialism, been so added with effect from the 2Bth secularism and unity and integrity of the day of March, 1989." country and oledge allegiance to the consti tution. Such revolutionary steps are being [Translation] taken under the leadership of Shri Rajiv Gandhi. I would also like to make yet another So it clears all the doubts and there WIll submission. It is true that mO'ley plays a big 47 Rep. of People MAY 11,1989 (Amdt.) Bill 48 [She Shankar lal] or 60,000 voters per constituency. If it is so, . . ... then how many new constItuenCIes, are you role in elections. We should find ways and going to r.reate? Proportionately. there must means as to how we can minimise the elec also be an increase in the number of oon .. tion expenditure. In this connection, I would stituencies. I think the increase may come to like to offer a suggestion that one month time about 60 or 70 constituencies. Still there is is given between filing the nominations and time for delimitation of const~uencies. That hokJing the elections. This should be re is why I say that there may be lot of compli duced. This should not be more than one cations. week. Hyou and your party is really popular among the masses and you have worked for You say that from 1st April. 1989 you the people, there is no need of one month's are going to implement this Act. I would like time. Only such candidates who have large to know from you, what efforts the Govern amount of funds at their disposal can utilise ment had made while making enumeration. this time for more publicity and keeps people How many voters were added? in illusions. So the time gap between the filing of nominations and holding the elec How many new constituencies are you tions should be reduced. This Nill reduce the gOing 10 create and how many seats are you expenditure and the deserving person will going to add? be elected. With these words, I conclude. PROF. MADHUDANDAVATE: Till 2000 [English] AD, there will be no charge! DR. DAnA SAMANT (Bombay South DR. DAnA SAMANT: I don't know. In Central): Sir, it is a technical Amendment. addition to that, I would say, every year the The whole proposal regarding giving voting population is increasing a1 the rate of 2.5 per rights to the youths-who have attained the 18 cent. Accordingly, the votters list is also years of age-of this country has come from gojng up. So, I think for every five years, the Opposition. I would like to mention that there will be an addition of another fifty seats the whole campaign was started by Shri V.P. and every constituency is going to get 50,000 Singh. I remember his words and I quote or 60,000 new voters. This is going to create "When you hang a man who has attained the a lot of problems forthe enumerators. Th~re age of 18 years, why not give him the voting fore. I would request that the Government right?" Therefore, it is the victory of the should make clear all these points. Opposition campaign. NOW, I would come to identity cards. So SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. far as the elections are concerned, I would like to mention that the Government must (Int9"upt;ons~ issue photo identity cards. h is very impor tant. In-the Bombay Municipal Elections I SHAI PRATAP BHANU SHARMA had seen with my own eyes that at 8 '0' clock, (Vidisha): He was not here in the House. directions were given to people to go and cast votes. The same people again and DR. DAlTA SAMANT: As far as this again go to the polling booths for casting Amendment is concerned, it is good that you their votes. So i.npersonation is there. No are giving voting righttotheyouths. Regard body bothers. All your machirlery could not ing this, already some survey and enumera do anything. There are merely watching like tion had been done. I would like to ask the the silent spectators. They are afraid of people h~n. Minister as to what is the total number who are standing outside the porting booths. of additional voters. I think by doing so, you By doing so, the democratic principles are have added approximately another 4.7 crores really violated. The same is the case w~h the fresh voters and it will come to about 50.000 AurangAbad and Thane Municipal Elections. 49 Rep. of People VAISAKHA 21 I 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) Bill 50 In spite of my workers who were .waiting in tions, corrupt practices are being followed. the queues outstde, they were not allowed to People false assurances to the people. cast their yotes. That is why I am saying that Regarding reduction of expenditure, I would there must be some check. If it is not possible say it is very difficult to follow. Not even a to provide them the photo identity cards, sing~e candidate wilt be able to fight eJection then at least you provide them some identity without incurring any expenditure. slips with a proper certificate from the ration office saying that the particular man is a What I am saying is that although we are voter by giving his full description. saying a lot of things, but they are all treated as useless. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: How can you say that? Now, focus is being given to the P~'n chayat elections. I am sure the DADAS who DR. DATTA SAMANT: Sir, the ration will be having lot of money will be able to get ing officer can issue such identity cards. at least 200 to 300 voters, each, Now, you are starting a process of decentralisation at MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Without the village level. I am sure this is not going to photo, the same person may once again help much. The people who will be elected come and cast his vote. The suggestior for the Panchayats-some 200 or 300 which you are making regarding identity people-are not going to decide anything. card is correct. Regarding the certificate which you are mentioning, how can you say Therefore, I would mention here the that he will be the same person? machinery which you are going to adopt here, whether it is the Election Commission DR.DATTASAMANT: Why lam saying or whoever may be, is going to fail. Though is that, at least some check may be kept. the tdea may be good, it is not going to work. Anyway, the Government is not going to agree. The people who cast such vo1es are I support this small Amendment which not sent by the genuine voters. IS a technical sort of thing. I hope ~ is meant for only this year and not for the next year. If they introduce this system, at least they will be able to verify whether hp. is the SHRI RAM SINGH YADAV (Alwar): I real voter or not. rise to support the Representation of the People (I'.mendment) Bill, 1989. by which MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There may the hon. Minister has sought to amend be chances that somebody may bring that Sections 9, 14 and 19 of the Representation slip afterwards also. of the People Act, 1950. DR. DATTASAMANT: GeneraUy, (hey The present amendment is the outcome go as perthe instructions of some other man. of the strong determination and political wilt Here. whaUs happening i~ entirely different. of our leader Shri Rajiv Gandhi, the Prime If you issue identity cards, at least soma Minister of India; and he is the only man at check may be kept. whose instance this amendment has been brought in, and the young men of 18 years Now you are going to introduce elec have been given the right to vote. Today. in tronic voting machines. I don't know whether the whole of the world it is the power of the the electronic voting machines will be able to youth which counts; and in ademoeracy, it is give the correct results. Whatftver we are the power of the youth which can survive and discussing here, I don't think they are going strengthen democracy. to satisfy the people. What is happening in the neigh bourlng I have seen now-a-days in the ele",- countries today? The youth are a:tgftating, 51 ,Ifep. d People MAY 11.1989 (Amdt) 8JI 52 (She Ram Singh Vadav) encouraging democracy t with faith in de mocracy and secularism. (Interruptions) whether it is in China Qf some other neigh bouring countries. The credit for this Bill Therefore, whatever may be the appr. goes to our Prime Minister Shri Rajiv Gandhi. hensions expressed by Or. Datta Samant He has given the benefit to the youth and and others, they are not correct, becau&8 in young people. They have been involved in amending Section 9 of the Representation of the democratic functioning of our nation. the People Act, the hone Minister has very clearly mentioned this. I quote the proposed The claim from the side of the Opposi· amendment in Section 9: tion that this has been done at the instance of the Opposition is totally wrong, because "(aa) make such amendments in the the Opposition has always resisted this. Delimitation of Parliamentary and As (Interruptions) sembly Constituencies Order, 1976 as appear to it to be necessary or expedi SHRI SATYAGOPAL MISRA: No; it is ent for consolidating with that Order any not correct. give one example. (Interrup notification or order relating to delimita tions) tion of parliamentary or assembly con stituencies (including reservation of SHRI RAM SINGH YADAV: You never seats for the Scheduled Castes or the preferred that. (Interruptions) You were In Scheduled Tribes in such constituen power from 1977 to 1980. What did you do in cies) issued under any Central Ad;- this direction then? (Interruptions) You have not taken any action. Therefore, it is a wrong The han. Minister has taken very appro statement, it is a wrong assessment that is priate steps in amending Section 9, because i.e. to say that this has been done at your Section 9 provides for Delimitation of Parlia instance. It is the Congress party. it is Prime mentary and Assembly Constituencies Or Minister Rajiv Gandhi who has done this. der, 1976; as also when the Election Com (Interruptions) You are not doing it, because mission should be empowered to see that no step was taken by your Government from the constituencies are properly delimited. 1977 to 1980. Had there been a political will, And, therefore, the amendment to Section 9 you could have taken the decision then. but was very appropriate. you did not have it ... (Interruptions) I requestthe han. Ministerthat appropri SHRI SATYAGAOPAL MISRA: We ate steps should be taken under Section 9, have done it in West Bengal...(Interruptions) when it is amended by this hon. House in my State of Rajasthan, there are some constitu SHRI RAM SINGH YADAV: You lacked encies which are reserved constituencies political determination ... (Interruptions) The since 1952. Some people do not have the Opposition parties are lacking in the political right to contest eladions from a particular will, and in political determination. There constituency because they do not belong to fore. they cannot say. (Interruptions) a particular commun~y or caste. Therefore. this sort of an action should be taken by the The development of the nation is pos Minister. and a provision should be incorpo sible only when we involve actively our rated, saying that imbalances in constituen younger generation, and our youth; and it is cies, population and regions should also be Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi who has 10- removed by way of amending. or by using, volved all the youth, to enable them to par the powers under Section 9. ticipate in the actual fundioning of democ racy. This is one of the historical and very important decisions in the history of With these word,~ I support the amend India ... (/nt9rruptions) This is how our party is ing Bill moved by tne hone Minister. 53 Rsp. of P.opIe VAISAKHA 21, 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) BIll ~ [Translstion] the confidence of the people in the polity of the county. I have a high praise for it~ SHRI BALWANT SINGH RAMOOW ALIA (Sangrur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I SHRI DAL CHANDER JAIN (o,01oh): support this amendment. Some of ourfriends Mr. Depu1y Speaker, Sir, I support the Rep have confused themselves in casting nsper~ resentation of the people (Amendment}.BUI, sions and counter-aspersions on this his 1989 moved in the House. It will enable our toric and great work done by this House. In youths to exercise their right to vote. I con .. fact, I congratulate the people of India and gratulate the han. Prime Minister Shri Rajiv this House for we, the people representa Gandhi and the han. Minister of law, Shri tives of India have done a historic work of Shankaranad for they have done this work in conferring voting rights to youths of 18 years this session itself and it has instilled a new age, I extend my congratulation to Shri Inspir ation in the hearts of the our youths. Shankaranand as this event has taken place India IS the largest democratic country in the during his tenure. Besides, I would like to world In no other country democracy has submit two to three points more. Firstly, I become so much successful as in India. would like to say about de-limitation of con stituencies. It is long overdue. To my knowl A number of our friends have raised the edge, in Punjab, there are constituencies Issue of delimitation of the constituencies. where this work has not been done for the When voting right has been provided to the last twenty years. I don't know why we failed youths of 18 years of age. de-limitation has 10 drawing your attention to this. It may b6 become a nocessity. In this regard I would failure on our part of you could not real15G It. like to submit that the area around Sagar As stagnant water starts giVing foul smoll, University falls under reserved constituency same is the case with it. People have started because it is situated at the outskirt of the becoming disinterested in their constituen city. There is grumbling in the people for it. I cies because of failure in undertaking de would request the hon. Minister of Law to limitation work of the constituencies. So, it consider seriously on 1he issue of de-limita should be completed and the reserved con tion. stituencies are required to be rotatGd. It has always been the effort of Election The second thing which I would like to Commission to conduct fair elections and as say is about the mass media of the Govern a matter of fact fair elections are held in our ment. I never make vague allegations. but country. It is true that some complaints are some times it so appears from the news registered but we should ensure complaint broadcast that a particular party IS being free elections in our country. Our opposition bUild. When they are trying their best to friends have stated that this proposal was create an impression that they are totally mooted by them. I would like to ask them that Impartial, a system is required to be devel If it is their proposal why did they not brought oped or a 5 member committee of Members the 8ill in thiS regard when they were in of Parliament should be formed to ensure power from 1977 to 1980? The hon. Prime Impartiality in the news and other pro Minister of our count' y has won the hearts o~ grammes broadcast on radio and T.V. 11 Will Our count,ymen by taking such brave and help in increasing the reliability of the media. timely step. Some of our friends suggested Sometimes news bulletins are twisted In that the time for compai,ning elections should favour of a particular party. So I would sug be reduced after the declaration of dates 01 gest that some sort of steps should be taken eloctlonc. This should be reviewed and if it is to increase reliability of the media. posslhle. the time gap should be reduced. I consider it a historic moment and it will In the end, I would like to suggest that play an important role in shaping future of the the matter of de·limitation should be seri· COuntry and strengthening it and increaSing ously considered. Similarly, tha announce 5S Rsp. of People MAV 11,1989 (Amdt} 811 66 [Sh. Oal Chander Jain] started beating their drums and said, "We have said ~ 'in such and such a meeting. we ment of our worthy leader Shri Rajiy Gandhi have said it in such and such a year" and all about the implementation of Panchayati Raj that sort of things. If their bonafides are and decentralisation of power is a historical correct, th~y would not have raised any event and thus he has suggested to transfer objections, which they are raising tOday. the power to the masses. I would like to congratulate our worthy leader and the Lot of objections were raised from ottier me.mbers of his Cabinet for taking a step sides also. But our Government has said it, which is historical, timely and suitable to the and our Party has stated it if a boy of 18years requirements of the country. of age can defend the country, can defend the sovereignty of this countrY by sacrificing (English) himself. is he not entitled to cast a simple vote? If a girl of 18 years can share the SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK (Panaji): burden of a family, can produce children, rise to 'support the Representation of the nourish them and bring them up, to be the People (Amendment) Bill. This Bill not only citizens of the country, can that girl not cast shows the determination, the will of the a vote in the election? This was our argu Government but also even the strong bonafi ment by which we have the people this des of our Prime Minister are revealed in this voting right. Bill. Shri Madhav heddi had mentioned that The Constitution (Amendment) Bill was the qualifying date may be only this year. But brought in the last session for the purpose of the provision clearly states:- reducing the voting age. Thereafter, it has to be rectified by not less than one half of the "'Provided that ·qualifying date", the State Assemblies. The process had gone relation to the preparation or revision of through. Only two months back. we com every electoral roll under this Part in the year pleted the process of getting it rectified by 1989, shall be the 1st day of April, 1989.' II the State Assemblies. Now, as a conse quence, we have to bring this amendment to -, hiS provision IS very clearly there and the Representation of the People Act. Now, therefore there is no question of getting if our bonafides were not strong, if our will confused in this manner. But as far as the was not strong, we could have said that only objectIon with respect to the electoral rolls after the entire process is completed. only which are being put forth is concerned, I afterthis Bill is today passed. the rorls can be would urge upon the han. Ministerto see that prepared by the Election Commission. That things are really rectified in a proper manner. process would have gone on till monsoon or Otherwise, after we complete all this proc even after monsoon, so that if we had elec ess, after we give the voting right to the tions, we do not know whether the ydungor younger generation, the people will go to the generation would have been entitled to vote courts to challenge it on some procedural or not. But despite that, despite this process ground to deny the younger generation the of formalities, the Election Commission has voting right. Therefore, in our interest, in the started the process of preparing the rolls and interest of the Government and in the inter those who are opposed to the reductIon of est of the younger generation it is very much the voting age have now started raising required that we shoulri rectify the procedure technical objections asking how the rolls in a proper manner. have been started to be prepared, when we As far Goa ;s concerned, I know that had no1 completed the various formalities. 16th ;s the date of the publication of the What does it indicate? This only indicates electoral rotls. So, how the things will shape, that as we said ;n the past also, the Opposi whether the retrospective clause which is tion Parties are opposed to this measure and there can cure that defector not, it may kindly only when we started taking measures. they be sa·en. S1 Rep. of PtKJp/e VAISAKHA 21, 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt) BIll 58 Lastly, I woutd like to say that as far as Act. J take it as a second instalmant of the delimitation is concerned, no doubt, there is electoral reform. But I hope that it is not the abar in the Constitution about it, that titl2000 end of the line because many proposals still AD the Census figure of 1971 has to be appear on the national agenda as far as considered. But this was there even in case electoral reform is concerned and I do hope of Goa Mizoram and Arunachal Pradesh the that this Bill will be followed by another more States which were born very recently. De comprehensive Bill to put into effect the ljm~ation of Arunachal Pradesh, Mizoram various ideas electoral reform which have and Goa was done in 1988 on the basis of achieved the consensus of the nation. the Census figures of 1971. You can imagine thatl That was the lacuna which was there I would also like to made one general and the Election Commission in my humble point particularly relating to the revision of submission would have certainly taken the the electoral rolls. There are situations in figures of the 1981 Census if they were various parts of the country and I am con available. scious of my own constituency, for example In Bihar I where long term residents have Secondly, there are respective laws been summarily excluded or their names which granted statehood to these States. deleted from the electoral roUs, shall I shay, What did they say? They said that regard on some illegal and understandable pretext. has to be had to the provision of the Consti My humble suggestion very briefly is that H tution. Regard did not mean any time you there is any long term resident whose name could resort to the figures of 1971 Census for has already appeared in any electoral rollin the purpose of delimitation of constituenCies the past, his name should not be deleted for the new born States like Arunachal without due process of law if he is suspected Pradesh, Goa and Mizoram-born in 1988- to be not an Indian national but a foreign and this aspect has to be considered. national, without a proper proceeding under the law of the land to establish his national 13.00 hrs. status. I Will not further labour this point. I think, we have got to make every possible The Lok Sabha adjourned for I unr.h till lfforts that the Assam like situation which is Fourteen of the Clock sought by many vested interests to be re- enacted in other States, shall be avoided. Now I come to clause 2 of the Bill which The Lok Sabha re-assembled after Lunch relates to section 9 of the Principal Act. at five minutes past Fourteen of the Clock Frankly, it is a very cryptic section and worded In a manner which serves to confuse rather [MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in the Chair] than to clarify. The han. Minister is his State- "ment of Objets and Reasons simply says: REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE (AMENDMENT) 8JLL-CONTD. "Opportunity is also being availed of to amend section 9 of the 19S0 Act for [EnglishJ empowering the Election Commission to consolidate all jnformatior'l relating to SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan DelimItation of Parliamentary and As ganj): The Bill before us, for the most part, is sembly Constituencies." a technical Bill and particularly the substan· tive clause 3, 4, 5 and 6. I have no reserV2· He is not taken us into confidence about tion in supporting the Bill in general terms. what information has come into the hands of But this is second time within this year that the Election CommissIon, what experience the government have come with an amend has been gained by the Election Commls ment to the Representation of the People stan which requires this particular amend- 59 Rep. of PlJOpls MAY 11,1989 (Amdt) 811 SO (Sh. Syed Shahabuddin] demand of the NSUI and the Youth Con. gress to give the voting right to the younger manto As far as I can see, the Order ot 1976 generation. It was the outcome of that that refers only to the work of Delimitation Com the Constitution (Sixty-First Amendment) Bill mission established under Act and sfter that of 1988 was introduced and passed. After under the powers vested in the Election that, apprehensions have been going on that Commission under the Representation of university campuses may become a hot bed People Ad the Order has been issued. There for politicians and will lead to degeneration of is no reference to any other Act or any other the younger generation. But we have to keep piece of Central legislation. Now what is faith in the creative capability and the sense sought to be done on the face of it is to of responsibility of our younger generation. If harmonise the situation if certain orders are we think that the younger generation is a issued under any Central Act and if that problem for us, that means we treat our create a contradiction or conflict with the de future to be our problem. That is why. it was limitation order, then the Election Commis highly appropriate to create a sense of con sion is sought to be empowered to remove fidence, a sense of responsibility in the that discrepancy. That is the apparent pur younger generation of the country. Now the pose of this. But the han. Minister has not Prime Minister has told openly that the coun told us which Central Act dbes he have in try IS safe in the hands of the future genera mind or whether any such situations have so tion. So, it has created a great boom in the farcometo his noticethat any notifications or mind of the younger generation. orders issued under any Central Act have, In fact. come into conflict with the provisions of As a consequential measure after the the 1976 Order. I would request the hon. Sixty-First Amendment Act, there was a Minister to clarify this with reference to some necessity to amend some of the provisions illustrations that he might have in mind. ac of the Representation of the People Act, tual or potential. 1950. In order to validate the actions of the Election Commission and to make list of Apnl, 1989 as the qualifying date for the Finally, I find here in para 2 of the persons with eighteen years of age to be Statement of Objects and Reasons about eligible to vote, there is a necessity to amend the election Commission revising the elec section 14 of the 1950 Act. Also there is a toral rolls covering all those who have now need to amend section 19 of the 1950 Act become eligible to vote. Now we know that because it will provide an opportunity forthe everyone of 18 years of age has become 18 years voters to be eligible to vote. Amend eligible to vote. The qualifying date is 1st ment of section 9 of the 1950 Act also be April. 19S9. I would like to know whether the came necessary in order to empower the revised rolls which have already been pre Election Commission to consolidate all infor pared by the Election Commission, were matIon relating to Delimitation of Parliamen prepared with reference to the 1st of January tary and Assembly Constituencies. or the 1st of April. These are the two ques tions I have in mind and I would request the han. Minister to clarify these. Otherwise, In addition to this, I want to suggest that generally I support this Bill. this opportunity should be used to introduce electronic voting system and photo identity cards and to take all other measures, for SHRI JAGANNATH PATTNAIK which we have already passed many legis (Kalahandi): Sir, while supporting this lations, to see that both capturing and other Amendment Bill, I want to take the privitege anti-social elements' predomination in the to congratulate the hon. Prime Minister electioneering is completely curbed. There because it was his strong will and faith in the should be legal action for that. With these younger generation fo the country and the words, I support this Amendment Bill. 61 Rep. of P9OfJI8 VAISAKHA 21. 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) BiN 82 [ Translation] Kerala. It is a very serious matter. Although the Election Commission is in charge of the ·SHRI V.S. VIJAYAAAGHAVAN preparation of electoral tist, it is being pre (Palghat): Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, I whole pared by ttie State Government officials. heartedly support the representation of These officials belong to associations owing peoples (Amendment) Bill. By all accounts it allegiance to different political parties. natu .. is a revolutionary measure. By giving voting rally their work will be coloured by political right to aJl those who have attained the age bias. I would therefore suggest that the en of 18 years, Shri Rajiv Gandhi has acceler tire work of preparation of the v01ers' list ated the pace of the transfer of power to the should be done directly by the Election youth in the country. It represents a big leap Commission. The State machinery should in that direction. With this step the youth will be kept out of it. In this connection 1 would be fully involved in the governance of the further suggest that those who are respon country. One hon'ble member from the sible for manipulating the voters' 'list should oppos~ion was saying that it is their achieve be severely punished so that it would act as ment, as it was they who raised this q ues a deterrent to others. In this connection I tlon. I want to tell them that Kerala was the would request the Government to send first state to lower voting age to 18 in the observers to all the States from where seri Panchayat elections. This was done by the ous complaint and rectify the mistakes. Congress (I) Government under the Chief Ministership of Shri A.K. Antony and the Finally I would suggest that photo at Opposition friends might not have even tached identify cards should be issued to the thought about it. So there is no point in the voters, This will eliminate the possibility of opposition claiming credit for this measure. bogus voter. Thereforethe Government must Coming back to the point 1 am sure this will seriously consider this suggestion. further strengthen democracy, and the na tion. I congratulate the Prime Minister for I once again support the bill. this. Sir, the base of democracy is electIon through which the people express their SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR TRIPA choice. And the base of election is the voters THI (Khalilabad): Mr. Depaty Speaker, Sir, list. The voters list has to be correct and I support the Representation of the People complete.lnthisconnection Iwoulddrawthe (Amendment) Bill. The whole nation is proud attention fo the hon'ble Minister to the com that the Hon. Prime Minister has lowered plaints which are coming from my state in down the voting age from 21 years to 18 respect of the revision of voters' list. Large yem s in order to strengthen the democracy. scale manipulation of voters List has taken ThIS step has been appreciated everywhere. place there at the behest of the ruling party there. I have personal knowledge about it in It is true that in view of the strength, my constituency. I am In possession of courage and competence of the youth they documentary evidence to prove it. There are should get an opportunity to participate in the cases where some persons are included In democratic process and running the admini .. the list at different places. There are cases stratlon of tho country. Sir, a number of the where in one list the residential addresses hone Members have proposed this and it are given and in another list the address of appears to be justified. It is true that the the CPM Party office is given. There are also number of voters would increase to 5 crores. cases where the address of some of the But it IS generally found that the names of voters is shown as the office of the Electricity persons between the age of 12 and 14 ar$ Board. Under the rule the chief of the family included in the voter's list while the raal has to sign the list after the enumeration of voters are deprived of casting their votes. members is completed. I wonder who signed Therefore, we welcome this Bill. We had the list in this case. These are some of the hoped that a comprehensive Bill would be clear cases of irregularitjes in voters' Jist in introduced which would have guaranteed -Translation of the speech or;g~nally delivered in Malayalam. RIJp. of People MAY 11,1989 (Amdt.) Bill 64 ISh. Chandra Shekhar Tripathi utility of identi1y cards. Identity cards would not only identify the voters but also check checking of impersonation and would have bogus voting because 10 per cent of the provided the facility of identity cards. The voters are those who have registered their proposal of delimitation of constituencies is names at many places and thus they cast also justified. vote at all those places. Identity cards would curtail this malpractice. In the prevailing cir· We are making rapid progress and our cumstances, anti-social elements engage in population is increasing at a high rate. Even booth-capturing, adopt illegal methods to the isolated and deserted area are being cast their votes and spoil the voting system. developed for residential purpose and new The identity card system would enable to towns and cities are coming up. Conse curtail these mal·practices. Therefore, I would quently, the number of voters have also stress upon the need of issuing identity cards. increased considerably. An M.P. is elected In Haryana, the victory of the contestant by 9-1 0 lakh voters is a constituency which is depends not on his popularity or the number more than the total population of a State like of supporters but on the support of anti Sikkim. De-limitation is essential for the social elements. The more the support of proper functioning of democracy and the these elements the better are his chances of Government must take this measure. There victory. A man with high principles cannot should be delimitation of the constituencies win elections in Haryana. In case the situ which have been kept reserved for the last ation is not controlled, people would Jose 30 years, so that it may become evident that faith in the present electoral system, and the principles of democracy are being fol ultimately it would not be favourable. In order lowed in the real sense. According to the to win the confidence of people, election present practice, a number of non-serious system will have to be made foalproof so that candidates file their nominations in the elec nobody can manage to create disorder and tions as a result of which the list of nomInees the candidate who enjoys popularity among on ballot paper becomes too long and it the masses, is elected. Representation of takes at least 10 minutes for a voter to find the People (Amendment) Bill does not refer out the name of the candidate whom he to Impose any restrictions on the number of wants to vote. The Government should find members in the cabinet in a particular State. out a way to eliminate the non-serious can In some States like Haryana, every third didates. It is quite regrettable that antisocial person is a Minister and every second per elements are also getting involved in politics. son is a Chairman of a Board. My submis The Government should take stringent sion in this regard is that unless a serious measures to check their entry into 1h~ poli thought is given to the matter and legal tics. Electronic machines enable fast count restriction is imposed over the number of ing. It is cheap and also enables to solve the Members in the State Cabinet, things cannot problem of law and order. In view of this, I improve. The public money which ought to would urge upon the Government to provide be utilised for the development of people is electronic machines for elections. With these wasted. I would like to give an example. In words I support the Bill. Haryana if the Goojars do not have any representation in the State Ministry, they SHAI DHARAM PAL SINGH conduct a separate meeting. Same is the MALlK(Sonepat): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, case with Jats. through you, first. I thank the Hon. Prime Minister on behalf of the youth of the country ...... * for giving voting right to about 5 crore youth. I also support the Bill and would like to give So this is what is happening there. some suggestions. All the speakers who Restrictions should be imposed on them. spoke before me have repeated the same With these words I support the BUI and suggestions. I would first speak about the conclude. ··Expunged as ordered by the Chair ), 8S VAISAKHA 21,1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) Bin 66~ [EngDsh] they have ?ot the influence of money power and muscle power. They are the people who SHRIPIYUS TIRAKY (AUpurduars): Mr. are realty representing in the Panchayats, DepUlY Speaker. Sir, the Representation of Assemblies and others. So, one class of the People Amendment Bill has been brought people, that is poor section of the people, il fOl'Y!ard by the hon. MInister. There is noth bEting neglected.' They have got no repre ing to oppose her•• but there is nothing new sentation in the erected bodies. They may also, where the Government can take credit. belong to any casts, any religion or any It is the demand of the youth of the nation that language. but they are neglected. For in· people of 1B years must be given the right to stance, I cite Assam. The authorities are vote and it is the victory for the youth of India saying that some of them are foreign nation· for which they have fought for many years. als. Whom should they go for the redressal Many of the States have already accepted . and whether they will get voting right or not? this for Panchayat elections also. I can cite West Bengal where they have given voting Even Scheduled Castes and Sched right to those who are 18 years and above in uted Tribes are on the mercy of the State the Panchayat elections. Government as to whetherthey ca be recog- • nised as such. So long as Scheduled Castes Sir. the election in our country is gOing and Scheduled Tribes remain on the mercy difficult day by day. Now the election is not of the State Government, you will not be able free and fair. As the hon. Minister is aware, to find out the actual number of these peopJe. we had a discussion also about this some How are you going to provide reservatfon time back but this is not the time to discuss and other facilities which are extended to about what we have discussed. Now the them? That would be a very difficult task. So, politics has gone to money power and muscle all these things should be kept in the mind of power and the Government should think the Government. I think, the hon. Minister deeply about controlling this money power will think over it and take necessary steps. and muscle power in elections. Many of our friends from the ruling party and from this [ Translation] side have expressed apprehension that bad elements and goondas as are employed by SHRI AZIZ QURESHI (Satna): Mr. the parties sometimes to influence the vot Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the ers. Many times we have heard that booths Representation of People (amendment) Bill. have been captured and the actual voters, It IS true that the Hon. Prime Minister and the especially the poor category , the Scheduled Government of India have done a com· Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Harijans are mendable job by giving voting right to all not at all allowed to vote. They are not even those who have attained the age of 18 years. allowed to go to the booth. So. in that sense. and history w'ould bear testimony to tt. But I the election in our country is becoming a would like to submit in this regard that at the farce and the people at large have no faith in time of preparing voters' list, the names of a the elected representatives. In some States. large number of harijans, Adivasis, people of we have seen that the conduct of the elected backward classes, even the whole colony or people is not good. There is no code of the whole village, are left out from the list conduct to them; they can be purchased, deliberately. I would like the Government to they can change their party and they can do introduce a provision or even an amendment anything to get some position in the Ministry of the Bill H required, so that the officers or in the office. This sort of business is going incharge for preparing the voters' list are on the election process in our country. So, held responsible for any such lapse wherein the election rules must be made in such a the names are left out and action can be way that the real representatives should be taken against them. elected. Big zamindars are there, exploiters .. there, black-marketeers are there and Secondly, I would like to submit t"- the 87 RtIp. of P90ple MAY 11,1989 ! (Amdt.) BiR 68 ISh. Aziz Qureshi] cards witl not yield any results so long as booth capturing is practised by the muscles people of backward classes or those who men as this discourages genuine voters are economically poor and exploited are from casting their votes in elactions because unable to make use of their right to yote, and of the tear of incurring the wrath of goondas. K at all they use this right, either they are Therefore inthe sensitive areas, C.R.P.F. or directed under some pressure or find them .. B.S.F. should be deployed to enable the selves unable to make a proper use of it. people to cast their votes; this is very essen Therefore, the Government should provide tial for checking the criminals for getting the facility of mobile polling stations with full elected to the House as mere passing of police security everywhere, and Specially in legislations will hardly serve any purpose. If those areas where the people are terrari~ed the seriousness of the situation is not real for casting their vote, so that people can cast ised today, it will take a turn for the worse, their vote without any fear"independently. making it very difficult to find a solution to it. So I request the Government to put an end to . Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the matter of menace of capturing booths so as to ensure issuing identity cards to voters has been fair elections. raised in the House many times. I am of the view that identity cards should be compul~ Secondly the use of electronic voting sarily issued to every youth and every citizen machines should be made familiar to the of th& country. I would like to appreciate the voters through giving wide publicity on Tele administration for introducing the provision vision. of delimitation of constituencies. But people in many areas have still been deprived of In the end I would like to tell our opposi getting the right to vote. I would like the tion r,,1embers that a very good step has House to pay attention to this matter. to been taken by the Han. Prime Minister to review the situation and take measures so reduce the voting age to 18, and confer the that people can make use of their right to voting right to the students. As such political vote without any fear. parties should come to an undertaking that they will not disturb the students of 18 years With these words, Isupportthe (Amend of age who are studying in schools which is ment) Bill. a common phonomenon in Bihar and U.P. H at all conversing is required, it will be done D. R. G.S. RAJHANS (Jhanjharpur): outside the schools. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as time is short, I will confine myself to two to three topiCS only. In the end I support this Bill. I strongly emphasise upon the need to find some wage and means for eradicating the SHRI RAM BHAGAT PASWAN (Ros· menace of booth capturing if we are inter era): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the ested in preserving the democracy in the Bill being discussed in the House. the reduc country. Some suggestions have also been tion in the voting age to 18 years for students made by the leaders of the opposition In the by the Han. Prime Minister is an encouraging House. In some parts of Bihar and U.P. and step for the Indian democracy. The name of whole of Haryana booth capturing is bla the Hon. Prime Minister will be written in tantly practised. From such areas criminals golden letters in the history. The youths are are jumping into the political frag. If this trend ver'l jubilant at it. is allowed to be continued unabetted, a time will come when only criminals will ge1 elect ad Sir, as far as the voting is concerned, I to the House. On such an important issue would like to emphasise upon the need to both the opposition and the ruling parites make arrangements for the poor and weaker must think seriously. Introduction of elec sections to caste their votes without any fear tronic machines and issuance of identity and strict action should be taken against the 89 Ft.". of PtJopfe VAISAKt-f'A 21, 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) Bill 70 persons indulging in bogus voting. A com .. Sir, usually youth are againstth8 estab mission should beset upto make permanent lishment knowing fully well that our Govern arrangement for awarding strict punishmen1 ment has agreed to reduce the voting age. to persons preventing people from casting To us, the country is more important than OUr their votes and indulging in bogus voting. party. When we have voters list with peopl. of 21 years of age, what are we wnhessing In Sir, the experience of 1977 is before us. our State, particularly in my Constituency? I Then Janta Party came in power with the can give you a number of examples that help of bogus voting as genuine voters were boys and girls of 14 years of age were not aHowed to cast their votes with the help enlisted as voters at that time. When we of muscles power. Therefore strict action pointed out that we were told that the matter should be taken against the persons indulg would be looked into and it would be seen. ing in bogus voting. As far as setting up of What have we seen so far? but even after booths is concerned, in rlU'al areas at some the date was over, WA saw again and again places villagers have to travel long distances that no action was being taken. They are not for casting votes. So, I would like to suggest going to take any action even now. I am the Government to make voting arrange afraid that during this time boys and girls of ments in the villages itself hewing population 10-12 years of age would be included in the of 500 and above, to enable the voters to voters' list. I know that we can go on protest caste their votes. Because villagers find it ing against this but no action will be taken by dHficu~ to travel long distances thereby giv the concerned authorities. The persons who ing the opportunity for casting of bogus votes. are in charge of the elections and who are in charge of looking after the voters' list in our Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the provision State cannot take action because they are made in the Bill about delimitation is a good afraid of the cadres of the ruling party. one. I would like to suggest to the Govern ment to set up a committee to bring about Sir, before I sit down I would request changes in this area. that it should be found out as to what action can be taken or what verification can be Sir, I support the provision of issuance made with regard to voters' 1st having false of identity cards to the voters in the Bill. This voters. This is not the time for me to speak is essential forthe voters of weaker sections, about the false voting done there. I suggest to enable them to cast their votes. that identity cards should be issued immedi atelyand as soon as possible we must have With these words I thank you for giving the electronic voting machines during the me the opportunity to speak on the Bill. election time. [English] With these words, I support the Bill. DR. PHULRENU GUHA (Contai): Mr. SHRI SHARAD DIGHE (Bombay North Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a simple SIll but Central): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, J support it is a very very important Bill. the Representation of the People (amend ment) BiB, 1989. There are two parts in this The Congress is a great believer in the Bill. The first part, according to me, is only youth of the country. Throughout the life of consequential i.e. conseq'bent upon the the Congress, it has supported the youth of passing of the Constitution 61 st Amend .. the country. It is because the Congress has ment Act, 1988, we have to amend Section faith in the youth of the country that its 19 to incorporate the lowering of the age of Government has come up with this Bill. the voters from 21 to 18 years. In fact, at that time ~setf, I had pointed out that while doing This Bill reduces the age of voters from that constitutional amendment, this amend· 21 years to 18 years. ment was necessary in the Representation 71 R.p.ofPIIOpIe MAY 11.1989 (Amdt) Bill 72 [She Sharad Oighe] under th& constitutional provisions to change any deltmhation or reservation of the seat. of the People Act. But somehow or the other Therefore I I do not, really speaking, under h was postponed till that Constitution S1 st stand the import or the meaning of Clause Amendment Act was ratified by all the States. (aa) which is sought to be added to Section I can understand that. That part of the amend 9. It says: ment was welcomed by every section of this House. h is not necessary to dwell upon the liThe Election Commission may, from subject at this stage again. tIme to time, by notification published in the Gazette of India and in the Official Sir, the second part. which is contained Gazette of the State concerned shall in this Bill, is regarding Delimitation. My make such amendments in the Delimi submission ;s that it is very vague. Not only tation of Parliamentary and Assembly. that. But the Statement of Objects and Constituencies Order, 1976 as appear Reasons also does not make clear or does to .t t9 be necessary or expedient for not throw light upon the intention of the consolidating with that Order any notifi Government in making this amendment in cation or order relating to delimitation of Section 90fthe Representation ofthe People parliamentary or assembly constituen Act. In fad, the Delimitation has been frozen cies issued under any Central Act." at the year of 1971 population under Article 81 and 82 of the Const~ution particularly by Therefore, the Law Minister may explain as the proviso which says: to what is exactly meant by it, what is in tended under this clause, which are these "Provided also that until the relevant orders which are to be consolidated and figures for the first census taken after what is the purpose of this clause? If the the year 2000 have been published, \it delimitation or dereservation is not to be shall not be necessary to readjust the touched under the provisions of the Consti allocation of seats in the House of the tution and they are frozen at the year 1971 People to the States and the division of what further thing this Election Commis each State into territorial constituencies sioner is going to do by taking the powers under this ArticJe.~ under Section 9 (aa)? What are these ena bling provisions? What is the real intention? Therefore, this has been frozen at the 1971 the Statement of Objects and Reasons also population. Similarly, the reserved seats are does not make it clear. It has not been made also frozen to the population figures of 1971 clear up till now to the House by giving as far as the proviso to Article 330 is con illustration. Therefore, I would urge upon the cerned. Law Minister to clarify this point so that we WIll understand what is the purpose, mean It says: ing and intention of this clause which we propose to add. "Provided that the reference in thiS Explanation to the last preceding cen KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE sus of which the relevant figures have (Jadavpur): Sir, I would like to congratulate been published shall, until the relevant our Government for bringing the Represen figures for ,the first census taken after tation of the People (Amendment) Bill, 1987. the year 2000 have been published, be We have already discussed the electoral construed as a reference to the 1971 reforms in this Session. Government has census." brought this amendment bill because of the urgent need. I would like to congratulate our As far as delimitation and de-reservation are Government because our Government re concerned, the figures of population are duced the voting age from 21 to 18 years. It alreaday frozen at 1971 and it is not possible is a welcome measure. I only want to point 73 VAISAKHA 21.1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) Bill 74 out one or two things $pecially about my have even raised this issue in the consulta Stat. as the time is Hmited at my disposal. I tive Committee meeting also. am not going to discuss about all the parts of our country and I witl concentrate on my To tackle this problem you kindly i$.ut State only. i~entjty cards in the border areas. Other ... wise, you cannot check this kind of infiltra Actually, there is no democracy in West tion. Because with the help of the local Bengal. H you see the voters' list. you will Panchayat and the CPM cadres. these find that it is full of bogus voters. and in this Bangladeshis have enlisted their names in voters' list, one person's name of one par the voters' list. I do not know who are the ticular cadre is listed ten times in the voters' citizens of India and who are the citizens of list. Each party cadre is giving at least ten Bangladesh. There is no difference. So, I votes in ks own favour. I would request the would request you to please look into these Minister to please instruct the Election matters very carefully and issue identity cards Commissioner to Jook into this matter and for this particular border area. al8010 see whetherthis grievance is genuine or not. We have already represented to the I would like to say a few words about the Election Commissioner. We have recom electronic machines. Jadavpur which is a mended so many proposals and we have sensitive area is my constituency. This is a also personally met the Election Commis stronghold of Marxists. Since independence s;oner so many times. The voters' list is full this was the first time that the Congress got of bogus and duplicate voters. These bogus this seat. In this particular constituency CPM and duplicate voters should be deleted from does not allow any other political party to the voters' list. Otherwise, how do we expect work. That is why I would request you to fair elections? In my State, particularly, this please allow electronic computer machines fair election will become unfair election if this in that particular area. thing goes on. In our State, money power and muscle power always works during lastly. I would say that in West Bengal election time. If this thing continues, then you have to give special attention at the time there will be no value for democracy. of elections. Because once Abraham Lincon had gIven definition for democracy as ·of the Today contesting of election is too much people, by the people and for the people'. expensive. Now .. no middle-class people can But In West 8engal if you come there you will contest elections because of money and see that the Government is a government of muscle power. Some elements are working the Marxists, by the Marxists and for the with this money and muscle power. So I Marxists! they are using power like anything would request the Government to look into particularly during the election time. ~ want this matter very carefully. justice from you. This justice should not be denied and should not be delayed. -The Minister must be aware that so [ Translation] many Bangladeshis are coming to my State. Due to this infiltration, if you see the voters SHRI C.P. THAKUR (Patna): Mr. Dep list you will find that thousands of Bangla uty Speaker. Sir, I rise to support this Bill. It desh people's names have been enlisted is revolutionary because the Han. Prime there. If you see the draft publication of 1st Minister has given as opportunity to the April. you will find that Bangladesh voters' youths to participate in the political process. names are enlisted there. One CPU mem· AU the miracles in the fields of religton, litera ber said that two foreigners' names are there ture and science had been attained by the in Tripura votars' list. I do not know about persons in their early ages and in the latter this. But in my state it is full. we have com· haJf of their lives they could achieve som. plained about this so many times and we thing by virtue of experience only. To en •• 75 Rep. 01 People MAY 11,1989 (Amdt.) Bill 78 [Sh. C. P. Thakur] the country. If a Government come$ to power because of the misuse of the Government few examples, we can quote the names of machinery and with the helpof muscle power. Shankaracharya, Jesus Christ and Newton the very existence of the country will be who did quite important work at a very young endangered. The main strength of India ties aga. in unity and integrity of the people and i1 the democracy is attowed to be weakened. the One thing more has been raised in the ,esu~s wifl be vnry suicidal. In 1985 Parlia House. (/nt8"Uptions) ...... it has been a1· ment eledions, condition worsened in the leged that in Bihar booth capturing takes state of Jammu and Kashmir, then the Elec .. place, but I say this is totally wrong. If even tion Commission deployed C.R.P.F. and two persons in a village are against booth 9.S.F. for holding fair elections. but in the capturing then it is not allowed to be prac assembly elections of 1987 exactly opposite tised. Here is an example. In 1977 when the happened. This is dangerous forthe country Congress Party was defeated at the polls because at that time people in Jammu and and the Janata Party came into power be Kashmir were deprived of the voting rights cause of booth capturing but same Janata and official machinery was grossly misused party got acrushing defeat later, though their resulting in the present chaos. In the 1987 booth capturers were very much there to elections, the voting rights were denied to repeat their performance of 1977, but they the youths through the misuse of official were not allowed to do so. So, booth captur machinery and the election results were ing cannot be alleged to have taken place in totafly distorted ones. I would like to mention Bihar. This allegation is totally wrong. the rigging which took place in 25 to 30 constituencies in the state thereby totally Second issue is of the participation of annoying the voters there ... (InterrtJptions) ... criminals in politics as alleged by som e of the In the State emphasis is being laid upon the hon. Members. When criminals go to people power of bullets not ballot. In the matter of in time of difficulty and our so called intellec elections all of us should be pretty watchful tuaJs do not go, the former will on Iy be voted and if the democracy is to be strengthened, to power. It is fact that the intellectuals are then the power of the ballot should be relied shy of going to the people and think of getting upon and the voting right of the people is elected without approaching them. When requirgci to be protected. such is the situation then criminals will only join politics. [English] With these words f thank you for giving PROF. N.G. RANGA (Guntur): Mr. me the opportun~y to speak. I support this Deputy Speaker,/Sir, I would like to con Bill. gratulate the Election Commission for the very good reputation they have gained for SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABULI (Shri India's democracy. They have done their nagar): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to work so well, during all these years-nearly support the Bill and voting rights given to 5 half a century-that they have enabled us to crore youths is a praise worthy step. have free and dean election process, when compared to other countries, which are I think in present contexts we are facing supposed to be democratic, especially the three major difficulties in holding free and fair developing world. India's is the best election elections. i.e. misuse of Government ma system: thanks to the very efficient manner chinery, use of muscle power and money in which the Election Commission had con power. Because of these factors free and fair ducted our elections. At the same time, it is elections have been facing trouble. However necessary that the Government should pro the persons having faith in democracy in the vide further protection and strength to the country want democracy to be preserve in Election Commission. n Rep. 01 People VAJSAKHA 21,1911, (SAKA) (Amdt.) Bill 78 Secondly, boeth capturing has become is much better to ensure the SU(;C8SS of our a di8ease~ In many places, it is not only the democracy by helping people to vote in a communal factions which are worked up, but genuine manner and preventing spurious caste factions and rivalries are also worked people from posing as if they are the r.a1 up. These are responsible for the success of voters although they are not the real voters the so·callE'd booth capturing in a large of th~t place. These safeguards have got to number of areas. be taken by the Government and they have to see to it that our democracy becomes It is all right, to extend the franchise to much more effective and genuine than what the young men and women. But, when it it IS today. comes to young women. it becomes a spe cial responsibility of the Election Commis THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JI.'S sion to ensure freadom forthe young women TICE AND MtNISTER OF WATER RE to go to the polls and cast their votes. That SOURCES (SHRI B SHANKARANANO): means. you have got to have much larger Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. at the outset' must police force and security force. than what is express my gratitude to all the hon. Mem being made available to the Election Com bers who have partIcipated in the debate and mission. Therefore, it is necessary to have unequivocally supported the Bill. Members the election process over a number of days, have expressed their concern mostly forthe not on the same day, not within the same conduct of free and fair elections. Views week. but over two or three weeks, so that have been expressed regarding the elec .. the police force which are detailed to do wo rk toral reforms which are not at the moment in one area, would have enough time to go the concern of the Bill. The Bill is 1im~ed to to another area also, to do their work. the ex1ent of enumeration of the voters fall .. Ing withm the age group of 18 to 21 and 15.00 hrs. revIsing the voters' list to that extent. As far as possible the police force must I am grateful to the Members for their be inter-mingled as between cast~s and serious concern for the effective functioning communities so that there would be some of tho democracy and the participation of the safety for the people of one caste in an area youth also within the age group of 18-21 from the violence of the people of another years Firs! I wi" take up the issues which are caste. The police force has got to be Stl ength very relevant to the Bill. A few Members have ened and the police force of ont3 dish iet expressed their concern about the provi· should be detailed to do work in another slons of the 8ill. They have expressed their district and as far as possible communal and doub1 s. Some Members have sought clarifi caste interests have got to be kept in mind so cations. They have said that there is not that their prejudices do not come into play so enough clarification in the statement of Aims far as the elections are concerned. and Objects of the Bill. The r)nly Member who has suggested amendments to the Bill Sir, we have got the hackward and the is Mr. Shahabuddin and his amendments poorer classes and the Hal ijans. These are are eSp€.clally with reference to Clause 2. socially dis-abled people which are under SIr, before I go into the area of clarification, great distress and pressure. They have to be as sought by the hon. Members with regard given protection. How and in what manner It to the certain Clause of the Bill, I would like should be done a special thought has to be to SdY that after the introduction of this BilJ. I given for that. Electronic machines have got am getting it passed. of course. with the to be introduced everywhere. There ~hould support of the House in time, so that the not be any exception to that. IdentifIcation youth of this country, specially falling within cards are needed not only in the strategic, the age glOup of 1a to 21 can exercise their sensitive and border areas but over the fight of franchise in thQ coming elections of whole country. It may cost lot of money but tt ParlIament or In the Assembly elections. It 79 Rgp. 01 P.opl9 MAY 11,1989 (Amdt.) Bill 80 (Sh. B. ShankranandJ b} where the boundaries or name of any district or any territorial thows the intense desire of the Government division mentioned in the Or· and the Prime Minis1er to involve the youth of der are or is altered, make this country. not for the purpose of campaign such amendments as appear of eJections. but for the purpose of showing to it to be necessary or expedi their way up to influence their choice with ent for bringing the Order up regard to stadions of the candidates who are to-~ate. supposed to represent them in Parliament. . This intense desire and concern is of the (2) Every notification under this Sec Prime Minister and the Government. The tion shall be laid as soon as may be senior most leader in the House. Prof. Ranga after it is issued, before the House has just now said about the objective func of the People and the Legislative tioning of the Election Commission regard Assembly of the State concerned. ing the conduct of elections of a fair and free manner. I do not want to waste the time of the This is the proviSIon in 1950 Act as ~ stands House because matters regarding the cor under Section 9. What is the amendment rupt practices, impersonation of the voters, that we are seeking for this Section? booth capturing and other matters have al ready been dealt with at that time itself when Clause 2 says: we took up the Constitution Amendment Bill and the People's Representation Act. All "In sectIon 9 of the Representation of these things have been discussed In detail the People Act, 1950 (hereinafter re and so, I need not dwell upon those is~ues ferred to as the principal Act), after once again and waste the time of the House. clause (a), tr.e following clause shaH be For the purpose of clarifications sought by Inserted: Mr. Shahabuddin and Mr. Dighe, with regard to Clause 2, which seeks to amend Section "(aa) make such amendments in 9 of the Act of 1950 by adding Clause (aa), the Delimitation of Parliamentary I wish to quote Section 9 of the Act of 1950. and Assembly Constituencies Section 9 says: Order, 1976 as appear to it to be necessary or expedient forconsoli- HPOWB' of Election Commission to mamtain dating with that Order ...... " DB/imitation Order up-to-dats: I repeat: (1) The Election CommiSSion may, from time to time, by notification ".... as appear to it to be necessary published in the Gazette of India or expedient for consolidating with and in the Official Gazette of the that Order any notification or order State concerned: relating to deHmitation of parlia mentary or assembly constituen cies (Including reservation of seats a) correct any printing mistake In for the Scheduled Castes or the the Delimitation of Parliamen Scheduled Tribes in such constitu tary and Assembly Constitu encies) issued under arty Central encies Order, 1966 or, as the Act." case may be, the DelimItation of Parliamentary and Assem From the plain reading of this clause. I bly Constituencies Order, 1976 would say that it has not given any p\)wer to or any error arising therein from the Election Commission to change the inadvertent slip or Commas constituency; the only power that we are sjpn; giving to the Election Commission is that 81 R9P"dPeople VAISAKHA 21 f 1911 (SAKA) (Amdt.) 811 , 12 they should consolidate such orders as Mizoram and Arunachal Pradesh. Thea. appear to be necessary or expedient for orders have been passed after 1976. We consolidating with the order of 1976. gave Statehood to Goa recently; the strength of the Assembly was raised. This power has Perhaps the hon. Members have linger been given to the Election Commission. ing doubts in their minds that some authority is being given to the Election Commission. So also the Mizoram and Arunachal As I said earlier, and as is clear from the plain Pradesh. As I said, the order relating to the reading of the Clause, we are not giving any delim itation will be available in one place in power except the power to consolidate such a consolidated form. Orders .as appeared to be necessary or expedient for consolidating with the order of Sir, the Central Act with regard to the 1976. This has given an impression in the State of Mizoram Act,. 1986 (Act 34 of 1986) minds of the people that something fishy is and the State of Aruf1achal Pradesh Act, there and it has not been mentioned in the , 986 (Act 69 of 1986), the Election Commis .. Statement of Obje7ts and Reasons. sion has been vested with the power to delim it the constituencies in the new States The hon. Members who had sought to and also to reserve seats for St;heduled amend this has, of course, not expressed his Tribes. The power tQ consolidate those or doubt about the authority or power to oe ders with the Delimitation of Parliamentary given to the Election Commission, except and Assembly Constituencie$ Orda'r, 1976 that he wants to know as to which are the is not specifically available under either . Orders which the Election Commission wants section 8 of the Representation of the people to consolidate.'1 think, I have understood him Act, 1950 referred to above or secUon 9 correctly. which refers only to correction of printing mistakes in the i 976 order. Now, delimitations of constituencies occurred in 1972. In 1976, th~ Order was So, the Election Commission itself passed. Thereafter, many Central Acts have sou9ht the authority from the Parliament so been passed which have to be put togetber as to have the power to consolidate these by the Election Commission, so that they are things. Besides this, I think the Hen. Mem .. available at ooe plac~ for the purpose of bers have no doubt about the power and convenience. authority of the Election Commission. , SHRf K RAMACHANDRA REDDY SHRI K. RAMACHANDRA REDDY: (Hindupur): will you please give an example What exactly do you m€an by consol1dating? so that we are able to understand? I am not able to make out. What are those orders SHAI 8. SHANKARANAND: Consoli which you want to consolidate? Why is this dating mear:s putting all the orders together. amendment necessary? The purpose of rhis amendment is not understood by us. With regard to the qualifying date, soma SHRI SHARAD DIGHE: Please give Hon. Members have expressed their appre some illustrations. . ciation for the advanced action taken by t~e . Election Commission. The qualifying date SHRI B SHANKARANAND: I was about which has been indicated is 1st April, 1989. to tell you that. Kindly have patience and Some Members have expressed their doubts listen to me. . as to whether it ;s going to be continued in future also. If you read the amendment itsetf, The Orders that are to be consolidated it is only with reference to a particular year, are the delimitation orders th 3t have been Le, 89. It has been very clearly given in passed thereafter with regard to Goa, Clause 4. MAY 11,1989 (Arndt.) BIR 84 [Sh. B, Shankaranand] those sections as jf the principal Act as so amended was in force at 1he time So, Si,. these are a few things which such things were done or such steps perhap$ are relevantto the clauses of the Bill were taken." and about which the Han. Members have· expressed their observations and reserva So everything is dane from First of tions. I am not taking up the points which are April. not relevant to the clauses of the Bill as I do not want to take much time of the House. Sir, all the hone members who Moreover, they have already been discussed. participated in the debate have unani mously supported the Bil. I hope that the The Election Reform is a continuous House will unanimously accept the Bill. process. As one Member said this is not a ona-time affair. Many things are yet to come MR. DEPUTY S,PEAKER: The before the House. In a parliamentary de question is: mocracy where we are thinking of revolu tionizing the social change to create an IThat the Bill further to amend the egalitarian society through peaceful means, Representation of the People Act, through the election process, we have to 1950, be taken into consideration." give protection to the States so that they have a right to have a Government of their The motion was adopted own choice. So, the electoral reform is a continuous process and as we gain experi MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: The House ence in the field of elections, we will come WIll now take up clause by clause consid before the House with many more amend eratIon of the Bill. On Clause 2, Shri ments which the House will appredate and Shahabuddln, are you moving your pass. I don't want to take much time of the amendments? House. SHRI SYEO SHAHABUDDIN: In the SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan light 01 the explanation given by the Minister, ganj): I had requested one more clarifica I withdraw my amend ments. tion, about the revised rdes which are now under finalisation. What wa~ the qualifying MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Has the hon. date? Was Hthe 15t January, 1989 or was it Member leave of the House to withdraw his 1st April, 19891 That point has not been amendments? cleared. And if it is April, 1989. then the question of retrospectivlty. as raised by the Hon. Member, does arise. SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Clause 6 Amendments Nos. 1 and 2 were by leave, makes it amply clear and it says: withdrawn !lAIi things done and all steps taken, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques before the commencement of this sec tion is: tion in relation to the preparation or revision of electoral rolls under part III of "The Clause 2 stand part of the Bill", the principal Act in the year 1989 shall. in so far as they are in conformity with The motion was adopted the provisions of the Principal Act, as amended by sections 3 and 4 of this Act, Clauses 2 was added to ths Bill be deemed to have been done or taken under the principal Act as amended by MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There are no 85 VAISAKHA21.1911 (SAKA) (Amdt) 811 88 am.ndments to clauses 3 to 6, the question the students in educational institutions who Is: ate studying in + 10 and above class •• will become voters. This means that the stu -That clauses 3 to 6 stand part 01 the dents studying even in the junior colleges aill·. also become voters. We welcome it. w. have tremendous faith in the youth force and The motion was adopted they will now have a very effective participa tion if' the aftairs of the State. But there is on. Clauses 3 to 6 were added to the Bill lurking fear too. I have spoken to many professors. Many professors and guardianl MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques are apprehensive that the educational insti tion is: tutions may be turned Into political battle fields. Therefore, proper remedial measures "The ciauss 1. the Enacting Formula should be taken well in time to prevent this. and the long Title stand part of the BiII.- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Dr. Raj Hans has already made this point. Please s~ down. The motion was adopted SHRISRIBALLAVPANIGRAHI: lwould Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the just like to give one suggestion and seek a Long Title were added to the Bill clarification. Please permit me. This ;s a matter of great concern for all of us. Enthu SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I beg to siastic young voters in educational institu move: tions may erect Pandals and inv~e all politi cal candidates at the time of parliamentary "That the Bill be passed." elections or assembly elections. But do we have the time to attend to all those things? MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Motion 8 ut if if we do not oblige them, what will be the moved: repercussions? I have one Simple sugges tion. Temples and other religious places are "That the Bill be passed." not to be used for publicity and propaganda purposes. The priests and devotees are no SHAI SRIBALLAV PANIGRAHI (Oeog doubt voters. But they cannot carry out arh): Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in the third public~y or propaganda work from refigious reading. I would just like to seek a clarifica places. So, there should be a similar provi tion from the han. Minister on one very sion in the relevant law prohibiting election important point. This is a very sim pIe amend pubhc~y and propaganda in educational ment. After having reduced the voting age instiluJions. It will have a very good effect. from 21 to 18. it has got to be incorporated in Since last several years J think from 1975- the Representation (8) of the People Act. 76, we have not gone in for the delimitation Accordingly. it is being done and the elec of constituencies. So many changes are toral rolls are being revised. I have nothing to there. Have the Government any proposal say about it. now for going in for the delimitation of the constituencies and also pebarring prohib· This reduction of voting age from 21 to itory election propaganda in educational 18 is a historic step. Barring four or five Institutions? For that, serious thought should countries, all over the world the vot Ing age is be given bv the Government. 18. So, it is in the f~ness of things that in the largest democracy also, it should be brought SHAI B SHANKARANAND: t do ap down to 18 from 21. This step has generated preciate all the fears of the hon. Member but a lot of enthusiasm among our youngsters. they are not relevant to the provisions of the But there is a dark aspect to it. Now. most of Bill. 87 Pu_ Pr•• mpdon MAY 11,1989 t»lhl RBpMQ 88 (Chandlgarh & SUI MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- Punjab Pre-emption Act, 1913 is applicable tion is: in that territory also. "That the Bill be passed." The Act specifies the categories of persons, in the order of priority, who have the The motion was adopted right of pre-emption in respect of rural and urban immovable property whenever it is proposed to be sold or transferred. 15.26 hr •• Sir, due to the following reasons, ~s repeal has been proposed in the ~Unjon PUNJAB PRE-EMPTION (CHANDIGARH Territories of Delhi and Chandigarh:- AND DELHI REPEAL) BILL (i) It is an archaic piece of legisla [English] tion which does not fit in he pres· ent day society; MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now, the House will take up Punjab Pre-emption (II) It places unreasonable restric (Chandigarh and Delhi Repeal) Bill. tions or. the free transfer of prop erty and is also against the spirit THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE of the socialistic pattern of SOCI MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI ety; and SONTOSH MOHAN OEV): I beg to move: (ill) It leads to unnecessary and "That the Bill to repeal the Punjab Pre undeSirable litigation. emption Act, 1913, as in force In the Union Terr~ories of Chandigarh and Sir, the law of pre·emption gives a pref Delhi, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be erential right to a person to purchase proper taken into consideration." ties in a Mahalia ThiS custom has become out of date. The Punjab Pre-emption Act, Sir, the Chief Commissioner's Province '913 has been repealed in the State of of Delhi was created out of certain areas Punjab. taken from the former Province of Punjab In 1912. The Pre-emption Ad was enacted In The Metropolitan Council of Delhi has Punjab in 1913 and it was extended to the considered and recommended the repeal of said areas of Delhi which were earlier parts • the Punjab Act. It is considered necessary to of former Province of Punjab. The Act contin repeal the Act In the Union Territories of ued to be in force in the areas of the Union Chandlgarh and Delhi. Territory of Delhi to which it had been ongi nally extend, with the exception of the areas Sir, thus It IS a Bill to repeal the Punjab to which the Delhi Land Reforms Act, 1954 Pre-emption Act, 1913 as in force in the became applicable subsequently. This latter Unton Territories of Chandigarh and Delhi as Act now governs right of pre-emption in it does not fit well in the present circum resped of agricultural land in the areas to stances. which it appUes. The ataas to which the Punjab Pre·emption Act, 1913 is now appli Sir, the BIIt was generally welcomed tn cable in Delhi are the walled city of Deihl, 51 the Rajya Sabha. I hope that this will also be urbanised villages and urbanised portions of welcomed by this House. I commend this Bill 18 other villages. to the House for consideration and accep- lance. The Union Territory of Chandigarh was MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Motion earlier a part of Punjab and therefore, the moved: 8. Pun1M' p,..mptlon VAISAKHA 21, 1911 (SAKA) Delhi Reps_I) 90 (ChandJgam & Bill That tha Bill the repeat the Punjab to various factors, and that now they would Pre-emption Act, 1913, as in force in like 10 take it UP. because of the number of the Union Territories of Chandigarh cases pending in courts, and of the legalities and Delhi, as passed by Rajya Sabha, which are causing problems. He said that we be taken into consideration. ,. should be able to eliminate disputes, espe dairy in the Union Territory of Delhi. Shri B.B. Ramaiah. I was just wodnering whether he has SHAI B.B. RAMAIAH (Eluru): Mr. taken enough support from minorities and Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Bill, that is. the elicites their suggestions and opinions. That Punjab Pre-emotion Ad, 1988 has been is the orlly point on which we should be brought to repeal the Punjab Pre-emption ) careful, because this affects only the minori Act, 1913, as in force in the Union Territories ties, their rights and their security. However, of Chandigarh and Delhi. The Union Terri in regard to the rest, there is no problem. tory of Chandigarh was earlier part of Punjab They must have done it on the basis of the and now it has been separated from Punjab. present circumstances. We should not bother about it, They say that it has been approved In 1913, the Bill was passed to give by the Metroporitan Council of Delhi. Proba particular rights to various people. bly, they have taken the'entire responsibility regarding the interests of minorities and The Punjab Pre-emption Act, 1913· was various other people in the Delhi metropoli enacted in Punjab in 1913. This Act, as tan area which forms a major portion of the amended up to 1938, was extended to Delhi territory. If this has happened, probabfythere in March, 1939, only to that portion of Delhi should not be any problem. I really wish that which is mentioned in Schedule A to the he is able to take sufficient precaution in the Delhi Laws Act, 1912, namely, that portion of case of minorities. If he has taken that pre District of Delhi comprising the Tehsil of caution, there is no problem. Delhi and the Police Station of Mehraull. With these words, I support the Bill. The territory now constituting the Union Territory of Chandigarh was earlier a par1 of SHRI GADADHAR SAHA (Birbhum): Punjab. As such, the Punjab Pre-emption The main objective of this Bill is to repeal the Act is appliable in that Union Territory. ThiS Punjab Pre-emption Act. 1913 which is in law of pre-emption was based on particular force in the Union Territories of Chandigarh considerations, under which strangers should and Delhi, and also to prohibit the courts in not be allowed to own property in a Mahalia these two Union Territories from passing mentioned therein. This Act enables a per any decree in any suit for pre-emption. son having a preferential right to purchase all properties in a Mahalia. The custom of not The Union Territory of Chandigarh was allowing strangers to own property in that earl18r a parr of Punjab: and the Punjab Pre Mahalia was maintained because of the emption Act was once extended to the area conditions prevailing at that time. of Delhi, which was earlier a part of former province of Punjab. The Punjab Pre-emption Act, 1913 was repealed in the State of Punjab by the Punjab The areas of Delhi !o which this Act is Pre-emption (Repeal) Act, 1973. applIcable are the walled city of Delhi, which includes urbanized villages in the UnJon Actually they should have, at that time, Ten Itory of Delhi. So, the Act is in force in taken steps to introduce this Bill also, along both the Uruon Territories, viz. Chandigarh with the 1973 Bill. But I do not know the and Delhi. rtasons why it was p,ostponded and de rayed. The Minister has said that ~ wa~ due The Punjab Pre-emption Act, 1913 was 91 Punjab~ MAY 11, 1989 Delhi RfIpMI) 82 {Chandigarh & 811 ISh. Gadadhar Saha) been brought much earlter by tlla Govern ment It is surprising that we should talk Of repealed in Punjab by the Punjab PreOlemp such things in thea. prograasive times. The lOn (Repeal) Act, 1973" Moreover. the Met law of Pre-emption has been enforced not ropofitan Council of Oelhi debated this Bill, only in Delhi but in other States also. I can and considered tt nacessal)' to repeal the say from personal experience that a mam. Act on the ground that it was a dead piece of ber of a family desirous of selling some part legislation. it was inconsistent with modem of the family land was. asked not to do so as ideas and it had put unreasonable restric it would disturb the family's privacy. This Bin tions on the fr .. transfer of property, and led prohibits the sale of land to strangers as their to unnecessary litigation. presence would disturb the privacy of the neighbourhood. Whereas the fundamental The right of pre-emption is correctly rights say that a citizen of this country can characterised as a legacy and relic of the buy or sell land anywhere in the country. This feudal past; and this is totally inconsistent in itself is a product of feudal legacy. When with the constitutional scheme and modern this Bill was first introduced in 1913 its objec ideas. The reasons that justified Its reqagni tive was to protect the privacy of people by tior more than a quarter century ago, is today not allowing strangers into the neighbour· totally irrelevant. This feudal legacy and relic hood. Having read the entire background is being removed through this measure. I against which this Bill was introduced I am support this Bill on behalf of my party. convinced that the conditions prevalent In 1913 are in no way relevant today. I have As regards free transfer of property and read the entire proceedings of the Rajya litigation, the Central Government should Sabha debate on this matter. Over there ~ have a fresh look at Delhi land problems, for was said that views of the minorities shoult't the DDA is more involved in speculative land be taken into consideration. because the dealings and Delhi Administration also paid minorities would be affected. But this will on the one hand a very very little compensa hardly affect any of the minor~y communi tion or low market price to the farmers for ties. Instead it is the poor who will be affected acquisition of their land ir the urbanised most as this Bill does not offer any scope for villages in the Union Territory of Delhi, de t')utsiders to buy land. priving them of their alternative house sites and adequate compensation and market I congratulate the Government for the price for their land and allowed on the other timely introduction at this Bill. If the law ot, hand DDA to sell the same land for residen pre-emption is in force in other parts of the tial. Commercial and any other Government countty it should be withdrawn. Everyone in projects at exorbitant rates beyond the pay the country should be allowed to exercise his ing capacity of the small saJaried group people right of buying property. Fundamental rights and ordinary citizens. So, my request is that should be honoured. I would say that this is the legitimate interest and rights of these a very progressive step. I request all minority farmers and this group of people should be commun~ies to side with the Govemment in protected. Moreover, the DDA has failed to this matter. This Bill has been brought at the protect and utilise the land already allotted to right time although ~s introduction earlier it. a substantial part of which is either thE' would have been much better. This law was subject matter of litigation or under unauthor withdrawn in Punjab a long time back. There Ised occupation. The Central Government is no point in continuing with it in Delhi and must stop such trading in land by DDA. Chandigarh. [ Translation] I whole-heartecJly tf.lepre8S my supOOrt for this Bill. DR. G.S. AAJHANS (Jhanjharpur): Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Sir, this Bill should have c)HRI RAM NARAIN SINGH (Bhiwani)' 93 Punjab p,...",ption VAISAKHA 21. 1911 (SAKA) DttIhl FWpea/) 94 (Chancilgarh & I Bill Mr. Oepu1y-Speaker, Sir, Jopposethe Punjab should be given to farmars. The Repeal But Pre"Emption Ad, 1913. This Bill was passad will be detrimental to the interest of small during the time of Britishers to protect the farmers. Some viUages coming under Delhi property of small farmers and poot people, and Chandigarh have been left. In other At that time farmers in Punjab took loans viUages farmers have b•• n put to a lot of from money-lenders who in turn used to· trouble. This is the policy of a Government mortgage thair land and then owned those which calls ~self pro-farmer. I oppose this 8in lands. The Britishers fen that farmers should as it is detrimental to th.lnterests of farmers be protected as they were an arm of the and poor people. Indian Army and assisted the Government during times of war. So the Pre-Emption Act, [English1 1913 was enacted to save small farmers from the clutches of money-lenders. This SHRI G.M. BANAlWALLA (Ponnani): law was enforced in the towns where it was Mr. Deputy -Speaker, Sir.. the Bill seeks to useful as a protection against take·over of repeal the law of Pre-emption and to provide entire neighbourhood. But atthe village fevel that no court in the Union territories of Chan this Ad was a means to thwart money~ digarh and Delhi shall after the commence lenders from acquiring land belonging to ment of this Act pass a decree in any suit for farmers. If the need arose, the land was sold pre·emption. to people within the clan or to the person who owned the adjoining piece of land. The cuI-. Sir, I submit that this Bill has been brought tivators could also be given the right to without any serious application of mind. There purchase land. The Britishers made several has been no serious application of mind with' other Acts besides this one. Previously, respect to the provision of law, which is Harvana and a part of Himachal Pradesh sought to be repealed through this Bill. This were part of Punjab and this law was en ist very obvious from the Statement of ()b. acted to protect farmers overthere. A Golden Jects and Reasons itself, and I quote' Act was also made for the farmers. As the fundamental rights have come jnto being it 'The law of pre-emption is based on becomes all the more important to pass thiS Mohammadan law and custom accord Bill. This is the unanimous view of the entire ing to which strangers should not be House. But I personalty feel that if this Bill,s allowed to own property in a Mohalla to passed it will be detrimental to the interest of maintain ·Purdah System'. This Act small farmers and poor people. Farmers of enables a person having preferential Delhi hava only 3-5 acres of land and they right to purchase aU properties in 8 will be subjected to injustice if this Bill IS Moha1la. The custom "of not. allowing passed. The Government is turning a blind strangers to own proPerty in a MohaJla eya to this injustice, Members of the ruling to maintain 'Purdah System· has be party say in the House everyday that a come out of date." maximum of As. 21/- is being paid as price for one square foot of land, Rs. 1.25 takh are Such a thing goes on in the Statement 'Of given for one acre of land. In other villages Objects and Reasons. I take a strong excep land cannot be bought for even Rs. 2,000 per tion to this, which has been incorporated in square foot. Here land costs Rs. 10,000 per the Statement of Objects and Reasons. It is square foot. \liUages have become slums totally misleading. I heard the hone Members and farmers have become labourers. Today who spoke before me. I found that the State farmers pull rickshaws otherwise they would me nt of Objects and Reasons has fuUy suc have become millionaires. This point has' ceeded in misleading the various Members been raised many times by members of the here. Congr.ss (I) and other parties. Vet the injus .. tice continues. DevelOpment or other charges Sir, the Statement of Objects and Rea.. may be taken but the rest of the, amount son. cloariy shows that no attempt whatso- Punjab Pre-emption MAV 11,1989 D.lhi R9pHi) 96 (Chandlgarh & Bill [Sh. G.M. Banatwalla) this concept was introduced by the Muslim legal system. ever has baen made to understand this law and the situation. The right of pre ..emption is In Audh Behari Singh V. Gajadhan Jaipuria. the right of a person to buy a land or a AIR 195, SC 417, the Constitution Bench of properly in preference to another on the the Supreme Court observed: ''The Courts in same terms, on the same genuine terms. But British India administered the Mehammedan it is not a very general law so that our law of pre .. emption as between Moham Bovernment may come forward and say that medans entirely on grounds of justice, eqUity a person may get u~ and buy alf the proper and good conscience." So, here this is the ties in a Mohalla whatsoever. What is aU question of partners. It is the question of a this? It shows a total misunderstanding of land or property which is conjoined to the the law of pre-emption. Jt should be under land of the pre"emptor. It is the question of stood that the land or the properties sold one partner in a joint property having legal must be conjoined to the law of pre-empor. title to the share 01 another person. Looking That is an essential condition for the applica at this law of convenience, in course of time, tion of this law. Hindus also came to adopt pre-emption as a custom for reasons of convenience. This The second essential condition is that also was observed in the same case to which there must be title of one partner in joint I have just referred. We are being told ~ is an property to the share of another partner. It is outdated law, an outmoded Jaw and all sorts only then this law coma into force, and not of things. Does the han. Minister know what that one Mr. X gels up. does not allow any our courts have said about this law and its stranger to come in a Mahalia, and buys all grand principles? In several judgements our the properties of the Mohalla in preference to courts have come forward to pay tribute 10 anybody else. I think. it is high time the thiS concept of pre-emption which is the Government should withdraw this particular concept of shufaa in the Muslim law, and piece of legislation that they have brought they have said that it is a grand principle. without understanding of the situation. They have praised this principle. They have said it IS based on justice, it is based on the Sir, we arafurthertold all sorts of things law of convenience, it is based on the law of and wild attack has been made on the Muslim equity. I may refer to the judgement of the Law. The concept of pre-emption has been Allahabad Court in Sant Ram V. Labh Singh, introduced by the Muslim law. Hamilton's AIR 1962-this is AIR 1962; I am not refer Hedaya-Hedaya, of course, but I mean ring to 1662-SC 199. Justice Srivastava Hedaya as translated by Hamilton-Vol. III. observed and I quote: page 591 says and I quote: UHarmonious enjoyment of the joint "Besides. according to our tenets, the property, therefore t can b.,secured grand prinCiple of shufaa-this is just a only if a co-sharer is given a preferen pre-emption-is the conjunction of tial right to purchase the share 'Of property, and the object ... to pr9'¥ent another co-sharer." the vexation arising from a disagree· able neighbour ... " So, this IS the principle. We are concerned with JOInt property. The law of pre-emption It is a doctrine of convenience. All sorts of does not apply to any property and every things have been brought. Purdah system property. It applies to only such categories of it has gene outmoded. This law is to uphold properties which are joint properties. There purdah system which is all outdated. What is are co .. sherers. one sharer having a prefsr aU this? This is where we have a doctrine of enttal rig~ to the purchase of the pr~rty convenience. The law of pre-emption is over anybody else on the same genuine founded on the doctrine of convenience and terms. And our courts have upheld the 17 PunjabPrfl..mptJon VAlSAKHA21, 1911 (SAKA) D.,hl Rspsal) ga fChandigarh & Bill constitutional valid~y of the same. They have go on elucidating this particular concept and also said that it is a principle based on the how our courts of law have upheld this as a question of convenience, justice and equity. very glorious gem, as a gem in our legal concept in our history. It is unfortunate that From the sama judgement, I quote: linking it with all sorts of considerations, the Bill has been brought without any ser40us "There appear to be good grounds for application of mind. I strongly object to the this attitude of society towards this law. Bill. I strongly oppose the Bill. The han, Some of the advantages which accrue ·Minister has made the matters worse in his from it are summed up by Saxena in tpeech while pi10ting the Bill. In the State his Muslim Law 1954 Third Edition at ment of Objects and Reasons, we are told page 667," that the concept has become out-modad and then while piloting the Bill he came Then the judgment goes on listing the ad forward with another statement of say that it vantages oft he principle of shufaa or the law is Inconsistent with the principles of social of Pre-emption given to our country by the ism and all sort of other things, I take strong Muslim Legal system and which has been exception to the light-hearted and caHous adopted even by the Hindus for the sake of manner in which the Bill has been brougl1t convenience because of its nature. tn the forward. I am pained to see that because of same judgment it is said and I quote this the Statement of Objects and Reasons, even because it has just been said that the prin some han. Members of this House have ciple of pre-emption is not consistent with the been mIsled. I appeal to the Government to modern society and modern times. The withdraw this Bill. If the Government refuses Government has also come with an attack to do so, I appeal to the House to throw It out on the Muslim legal system. It has also lock, stock and barrel. pleaded that it has gone out-molded. It is a universal law that holds good for all times to 16.00 hrs. come. It did not befit this Government to come to this HOUSEl with such types of perni· [ Translation] cious statements about one legal system and without even seriously applying its mind SHRI BALWANT SINGH RAMOOW· to the question. ALIA (Sangrur): ~r. Deputy· Speaker, Sir, several hon. Members expressed their views MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now. or pre-emption. I am a product of the previ· ous generation. Based on my experience f SHRIG.M. BANATWALLA: I wanted to would say that it IS very important to do away say a lot but then I will respect your bell. I wijh this law. Many hon. Members are in have already said that I want to quote from favour of continUing with this law in Delhi and the same judgement and I quote: Chandlgarh. But the real issue of the Prop· arty owner and the farmer is being over "If in spite of all the advance Which looked. We are all guihy of using the Govem· society claims to have made, these ment to exploit the farmer in an organised characteristics of human nature are manner. Even the British did ndt act in this still there, it is difficult to accept the way. I am not blaming anyone partioular • contention that the law of pre-emption Government for this. In a family of four bro1h has become out-moded." ers if the family land is divided among the brothers and also the paternal uncles, a I quoted the judgment of the Constitu family member could chattenge the safe of tion Bench of the Supreme Court. I quoted the land. This led to many disput.s. In my the judgment of the Allahabad High Court. vinage there are SO civil suit's pending in t~. Ther. 'are several other judgments With me Court. This systlim was discontinued In hera. You pIe_ give me two, three hours to Pun,lab a long time back. Governm.~, be It St II. DA to Central MAY 11. 1989 Punjab Pre..mption 100 Govt Employees (Chandigarh & Delhj Repeal) BIN [She &alwant Singh Ramoowalia] (General) (Base 1960-100) for the period end Ing 31. 12.1988 over the index average the Akali Oal or the A.G'P' I are ruining the of 608. the base figure to which the revised farmers by acquiring land for cities at throw .. pay scales are pegged. The twelve monthly away prices .. Hon. Shri. Ram Narain Singh average Consumer Price Index for the pe .. rightly said that a number of laws were made riod 'nding 51.12.1988 is 786.75 which works in Punjab. One of the laws said that a non .. out to an increase of 29.39% over 608. farmer could not purchase land belonging to... Employees drawing basic pay upto Rs. 3500/ a farmer. Money-lenders exploited the farm .. .. are to be allowed 1000/0 neutralisation, ers. One law was that the bullocks and the those drawing basic pay between As. 3501/ bullock-cart of a farmer could not be auc .. and Rs. 6000/- 750/0 and those drawing tioned. They were safe. As compared to basic pay above Rs. 6000/- 65% and are. those times. today a person is at liberty to therefors, entitled to revised D.A. of 29%1 buy as much land as he desires. Farmers 220/0 and 19% of basic pay respectively with were given a mere pittance for their land effect from 1. 1.1989 as against 23%. 7% and where palatial mansion are buitt. We weI· 150/0 of basic pay respectively from 1.7.1988. come the decision to withdraw this law. As it is the land is acquired against the wishes of Government has decided to pay the the farmer and proper compensation also is instalment of dearness allowance due to not paid. h is reaUy too much of an injustice Groups 'A', 'B', IC' and '0' employees from with the farmer. Again I emphasise that the 1.1.1989 In cash. Orders in this behalf will be farmer should be fully compensated for the Issued by the Ministry of Finance. land acquired from him. With these words, I conclude. The annual cost of this instalment of D.A. payable to aU Central Government employees(with effect from 1.1.1989 is esti mated at Rs. 425/ .. crores. However, during 16.05 hr •. the ftnancial year 1989-90, the additional expenditure on account of this instalment of STATEMENT RERELEASE OF FUR D.A. will be Rs. 496 croras. THER INSTALMENT OF DEARNESS ALLOWANCE TO CENTRAL GOVERN· MENT EMPLOYEES 16.07 hrs. [English) PUNJAB PRE·EMPTION (CHANDIGARH THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE AND DELHI REPEAL) BILL-CONTO. DEPARTMENT OF EXPENDITURE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI B.K. [English] GADHVI): Sir, I beg to make the following state ment:- ~ MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let us now resume the debate on the Bill. Now, Mr. On the basis of the re(X)mmendations of Syed ShahabuddlO may speak. the Fourth Central Pay CommiSSion, as accepted by the Government for Groups 'A', SHRI SYEO SHAHABUDOIN (Kishan 'B' f 'e' and '0' of Central Government em ganJ). Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Sir. I fully and poyees, dearness allowance at revised rates without any reservation endorse the views has become due for consideration ~;th ef expressed by my learned colleague, the fect from 1.1.1989, on the basis of percent honourable Mr. G.M. Banatwalla with regard age increase in whole numbers in the twalve to the ~ill which is before us. I oppose the Bill monthly average of All India Consumer Price and I request the Government to withdraw Index Numbers for Industrial Workers the Bill for further consideration and if ne('~I- 101 PunjabPfHmpIion VAISAKHA 21.1911 (SAKA) DeIhl R",.,) 102 (Chandigarh & Bill sary t refer the matter-the principle of pre brought this Bill Simply in an automatic emption as applicable to modem conditions manner w~hout going into the question about to the Law Commission for consideration the applicability of the principte of pre-emp before coming back to the House. tion all over the country. I do not think it ts in confllct with the fundamental right. One may Sir, the Statement of Objects and Rea .. talk about the fundamental right of the rich to sons, as stated in this Bill-one wishes buy every available piece of property, but ware framed in a happier manner I think if the that is not the fundamental right to which we han. Minister' applies his mind. he wotJld are wedded. In fact, the right to property perhaps appreciate our sensitivity on the stands repeated. It only means the right, as point. h raised some very far .. reaching ques I said, of establishing a socially harmonious tions about the mind of the Government, atmosphere. Therefore, I would suggestthat about the line of its thinking, about the direc the Government have a fresh look at the tion which it is proceeding. cntive problem, understand the principles behind Haq-e-shuffa and at least clarify Sir, there is a deep sense of insecurity im mediately that it is not intended to degrade about the future of Muslim Law in the country the application of Muslim law, as established as established by law and as recognised and under the law of the land and as established applied by our courts. One feels that the under the Shariat Act of 1937. Muslim Law is under continuous attack, one feels that by various legislation it is being Sir, once again, with every emphasis at deliberately nibbled at and the manner in my command I oppose this piece of legisla .. which the objects and reasons have been tion. It is pernicious, it is vicious, it is degrad stated in this Bill simply serves to confirm this ing to the Muslim community, it attacks the fear and to reinforce this apprehension. dignity of the community, it attacks an essen tial principle of Muslim law I request the Sir, I would not like to go into any details Government to ~ithdraw the Bill and refer because I think Mr. Banatwalla has stated the matter to the Law Commission for further the case in a very comprehensive manner. consideration in its application to the na The fact is that this doctrine of Islamic JUriS tional territory as a whole. prudence was found acceptable even by non-Muslim communities not only in India THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE but all over the world. In fact it is almost a MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI universal piece of legislation where the right SONTOSH MOHAN OEV): Sir, about this of the neighbour, the right of the partner. the Bill, I thought the House would unanimously right of the blood relative is re~ngised to accept it. This is a simple Bill, a step forward have a superior claim to acquire if a property towards the socialistic pattern of sociel¥ and is under alienation and if it is avftilable for to repe~1 those laws which are archaic in sale. Sir, all this reference to Purdah system todays time. As I said in my introduction. in and so on is without any sense, but I would 1973, it has been repealed in certain parts in just like to summarise by saying that this.Law Punjab. Mr. Banatwalla and Mr. Shahabud of Pre-emption makes social sense from the din have ptaced certain views and similar point of view of desirability of harmony in a a views were placed by one or two members in Social environment. It makes legal sense the Rajya Sabha also. I did check up from the from the point of view of justice and equity. It Delhi Metropolitan Council, from their office is in full conformity w~h the laws of natural bearers and they told me that they had a justice and if I may say so, ~ also makes discussion about it with the representatives economic sense. After aU, what is the law of of the various Muslim leaders and by 'and consolidation of holdings, Pre-empton ;s an large, it has been accepted. Jwould not say automatic consolidation of holdings, if (me that it was a unanimOus recommendation looks at it from that point of view. Therefore, from the MUslim community. There was Sir, J think the Government have obviously reservation. Now, Mr. Shahabuddin has said 103 PunJab Pre-.mption MAY 11,2989 Deihl Repeal) 104 (Chandlgarh & B.ll ISh. Sontosh Mohan Dev] which has been sold to another per son." that this is an attack on the Muslim law and on tn- sentiments of the Muslim community. These are the reasons; these are the Legis I strongly refute this. I strongly refute this. We la1ions which are hapening. We have no have no intention as such, in any way t to hurt intention whatsoever to go against any par the ..ntiments of any communhv. It is not the ticular tyPtJ of people or religion. With all aim of the Bill. This particular law, as Mr. respect, I must say, we are a secular Banatwala has cited, has certain decisions State ...... in favour, but he has not cited decisions against it also. given by various courts. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: Then, why Various courts have also recom mended are such observations made in the Objects striking down certain provisions and even and Reasons. the taw, itsaH. So, this is the position. I would like to quote here for his information what SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN OEV: Hon. was quoted in Rajya Sabha by one of the Members, when they go to the objeds and hone Members about two eminent JUrists' reasons, perhaps have not gone through my opinion about his. One is from Justice Ameer speech in the Rajya Sabha. In my speech in Ali: Rajya Sabha, I had extended apology. I did say, It should not have been there. I did say "The right of pre-emption or Shufaa what has been done is wrong and it should means the right possessed by one not have been done. Again I repeat it. I agree person to acquire a property sold to with Mr. Banatwalla that that cannot be the another in preference to that other by reason for introducing this Repeal Bill. paying a price equal to that settled, or paid by the latter; and the Moham SHRIG.M. BANATWALLA: Thereisno medan system owes ~s origin to mo application of mind. The Government is re tives of expediency and a deSire to tracting its own statem ent of objects and prw/ent the introdur;tion of a stranger reasons. That means, there is no application among co-sharers and neighbours of mind seriously by the Government. Such likely to cause inconvenience or vexa a Bill should not be considered here. tion. The Sunni Hanafi Law of Pre emption was introduced in India wIth SHRt SONTOSH MOHAN oev: When the Mahaooedan Government, and In I said, I am sorry for it...... certain places, ~ has become a part of the lex loci; for example in Behar parts SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: Let them of the Punjab and the United Prov withdraw the Bill and study the subject. inces, both Hindus and Mohammedans are entitled to claim the nght of pre SHR' SON10SH MOHAN OEV: When emption. And so well-established is I said. I am sorry, one of the ex-Chief Jus that right, that it is almost invariably tices of India said-I am wrong in saying so recorded in greater or less detail In the because Pardah system is definitely one of village-administration-papers called the reasons for ~. Mr. Bahrullsla"m said it. the Wajib-ul-Arut." So there is a difference of opinion. I am not saying it. We do not want go into this This is one opinion. Another opinion was contradIction. given by Justice Mulla. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: T~e Gov -The right of shufaaor pre-emtpion IS a ernment is apologizing for the Statement of right which the owner of an immovable Objects and Roasons and insisting on the property possesses to acquire by pur Bill. That is the contradiction we are having chasing another immovable property now. 105 PunjabPrfJ.emption VAISAKHA21, 1911 (SAKA) Delhi Repeal) 106 (Chsndigarh & Bill SHAt SONTOSH MOHAN OEV: Sir, liThe clause 1. as amended, stand part we have no desire to wound the sentiments of the Bill" of any particular communky. If that has wounded the sentiments, we are sorry for it. The motion was adopted With these words, , request that the 8'" Clases " as Brnended, was added to the may be passed. Bill SHRI G.M. BANA TWAlLA: We are not Enacting Formula satisfied. Are you satisfied? It is a wonderful situation. (Interruptions) Amendment made: MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Banat- Page 1, line 1,- walla, plaase take your seat. for "Thirty-ninth" substitute- The question is: "That the Bill to repeal the Punjab Pre emption Act, 1913, as in force in the (Shri Sontosh Mohan OeV) Union territories of Chandigarh and Delhi, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques taken into consideration" tion is: The motion was adopted "That Enacting Formula, as amended, stand part of the Bill." MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, the House will take up clause-by-clause consid The motion was adopt9d eration of the Bill. Enilcting Formula, as amended. was Clauses 2 and 3 added to the Bill MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques·" tion is: tlon is: "That clauses 2 and 3 stand part of the "That the Long Title Stand part of the Bill." Bill." ~, The motion was adopted The motion was adopted Clauses 2 and 3 were added td the Bill The Lont title was addsd to ths Bill Clauss 1 (Short title) SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN OEV: I big to move ...... Amendment made: SHAI G.M. BANATWALLA: We .r. Page 1, line 4, - walking out in protest. 10,"1988" subsrllut9 "1989" (2) 16.18 hrs. (Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev) ~MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques At this stage Shri G.M. BanatwaJla and tion is: some other hon. Members left the Hous. 107 Centrll/lndustrial sscurity MAY 11,,1989 Force (Amdt.) 8111 108 ( SHRI SONT:OSH MOHAN OEV: J beg offences were given to make k a more effec to move: tive instrument for providing security to vital industrial undertakings. The responsibility of urhatthe Bill, as amended, be passed." security coverage to vhal undertakings in creased manifold and today CISF has been MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques depJoyed in 187 Government/Public Sector tion is: Undertakings spread all over the country. -That the eill, as amended, be passed." In view of the prevailing security envi ronment in some parts of the country, CISF is hard pressed to provide security not only Ths motion was adopted to the installations of the undertakings but also to officers and workers engaged in running the public sector undertakings. 16.20 hr •• In the present Act_ CISF has limited powers under Section 11 (1) (iii) of the CISF CENTRAL INDUSTRIAL SECURITY Act, whereby CISF can act only at the time of FORCE (AMENDMENT) BILL "imminent danger". With these provisions under the present Act, CISF cannot exercise [Eng/ish] the limited power of arrest under this Section unless these conditions are fulfilled. The MR. DEPUTY ·SPEAKER: We go to the word 'imminent' qualifying the word 'danger' next item No.6. is a serious limitation upon the powers of CISF to act in the face of various threats. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Such stipulation does not seem warranted in MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI the prevailing security environment of our SONTOSH MOHAN DEV): I beg to move: country_ Therefore in the larger public inter est, the word "imminent" should be deleted. "That the Bill further to amend the Central Industrial Security Force Act, It is also considered appropriate to take 1968, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be this opportunity to substitute the word "re taken into consideration." moval" for the word "suspend" in clause (i) of Section 8. This will bring Section 8 of the Act, In the context of the serious disturbance in conformity with the provisions contained that too1< place in certain industrial areas in in the Constitution of India and other service the early sixtjes, the need for creating an Rules governing the public servants. Industrial Security Force for the better pro tection of vitai undertakings 01 the Central This may give rise to misapprehension Government was keenl1 felt. Consequently I in certain quarters that CISF is being con the Central Industrial Security Force was verted into a Potice Force; but as it was made raised under the Central Industrial Security clear by the Government at the time when Force Act, 1968 for the better protection and the CISF Amendment Act, 1983 was moved, security of the Central 'Government tndus· there is no intention at all to make CISF a trial Undertakings. With the growth of the parallel police Force. Instead efforts are being Force. the responsibil~ies of the Force also made to ma~e it a weU .. regulated, well ..trained grew greatly in magnitude as well as com· and wall-equipped security Organisation on plexity. In the year, 1983 the Central Indus· All India basis. Even today we would tike to trial Security Force Act was amended by Act reiterate that there is no such intention of the No. 14 of 1983. whereby CISF was declared Contral Government to encroach upon the as an Armed Force of the Union and some jurisdiction of the States, as provided under additional powers of arrest in cognisable the Constitution of India. The only purpose of 109 ,Ctlntralkldustrlal sflCurity VAISAKHA 21. 1911 (SAKA) Forc.IAmdt) BlI 110 the present proposal is to achieve the main been crEiated with an idea ~ giving same objective i.e. to provide better protection and protection and safeguard to the Central security to the Public Sector Undertakings 1ndustriaJ Institutions. At that time itself, the by, enabling the Force to provide timely pro Bill was referred to the Selected Committee tection and help 10 the officers and met at and the Select Committee, after due defib work. H we consider that protection of the erations, had made a number of changes. employees of the undertakings would be Also, there were a number of objections filed conducive for better secur~y of the undertak at that time itself. Then, afterdueconsidera .. ings' such vital power should not be left to tion, that Bill had been passed and the Act (emain unused in the domain of law and had been brought forward. The Government order and general policing because of the made some amendments to this Act in the obvious constraints and heavy demands on year 1983. But now they are trying to meddle the Stale Police forces and the law and order with this even stili further. Even though the!. machinery. In any case, the investigation amendments apparently seem to be innocu and prosecution of the offenders will con ous and not dangers but in actual pradica, tinue to be the responsibility of the State tht1Y are very dangerous. SOt this Bill hat to Police. be rejected. It deserves only to be rejected. The villain of peace is Section 11. Here, 16.24 hrs. Clause 5 hns been introduced to amend Section 11. As far as Section ,11, Amend [SHAI SOMNATH RATH in the Chnirl ment No. 1 is concerned, I don't think the,. is much danger. I do not know why it has With a view to making this Force, which been brought forward. Except one word, has grown in strength and popularity during there IS not much difference. If you compare ~s existence, more effective and in order to th,s with the original Section, you will find that achieve the purpose for which it has been these SectIons are the same except ona created in the year, 1968, the present Amend word. It has been mentioned in this clause ment eill is being introduced. which is to be substituted: MR. CHAIRMAN: Motion moved: "to c:lny emrloyee, referred to in clause (d) of r,ectior 10, or to him or any other "That the Bill further to amend the member of the Force, in discharge of Central Industrial Security Force Act, his duty as such employee or in execu 1968, as passed by Rajya Sabha, be tion of hIS duty as such member, as the taken into consideration." case mav b3"." SHRI K. RAMACHANDRA REDDY Excopt one word. there IS no change. I am (Hindupur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to not able to understand why this whole sec oppose this Bill on vanous considerations. tion has be ..~n quoted when only one word is By this Amending Bill, the Government IS to be added. I think the hon. Minister will trying to seek amendments to Sections 2, 8, explain the Implication of this amendment 10 and 11. These amendments apparently NO.1. It is not intelligible. It is not definite. look innocuous but there is very great dan· gar to the workers. This Bill will go against AS far as Amendment No. 3 is con the workers to suppress their genuine dis cornea, It is again the most dangerous sent. genuine right to strike. So, I am oppos amendment. 1 hay say th&t they are remov .. ing this Bill. ing only the word "imminent". Section 7 gives the right 01 arrest to this CISF. It gives right Before going into these sections. I would of arrf-st. Evrn the prjvatecitizen has got the Uke to bring the history of this Act to the right of arre~t. Potice have got the riOht of notice of this hon. House. In the year 1968, arrest. It is In between the two. So. now the the Central Industrial Security Force has Gov~lnrnfJnt 15 trying to give the right 'of 111 CIiIntrallndUstrial security MAY 11.1989 Force (Amdf.) Bill 112 (Sh. K. Ramachandra Reddy] of the State Government. You have not cion. so. Can you create such a force without the arrest to this Foree through this Bill. Under consent of the State Government? It is a Section 43 of the Cr. PC, a private person question which, I think, the Minister wiH take can also cause someone to be arrested. But some 1rouble to answer. I think, such a thing the conditions are different. It has some is not good. I request the Minister to be strings attached to it. Some restrictions have gracious enough. Do not think that you can been placed. It cannot ad on its own free will. rule this country for ever. This thing can be A man can be arrested only when an offence used by an unscrupulous Government. is being committed in the presence of the man who arrests. Force etc. It should be SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS (Mave cognizable and non-bailable. Then only a likara): There is no other 90vernment other person can be arrested. In the same way, than the unscrupulous Government. soma restrictions have been placed by Section 11. It is about the imminent danger. S.K. RAMACHANDRA REDDY: There The personnel of the security force get the are number of occasions when workers go right to arrest when is imminent danger. It is on strtke. Th&y make some d~mands. They not Ilks what a paisen merely perceives or go on strike. And they are arrested. This imagines. There must be imminent danger. section can be used tocow-down workers. to That means, there are restricts on the pow intimidate them, to arrest them, to disturb the ersot arrest. So, the framers of the Bill at that unity. It is a Mala fide intention with which this time had taken a lot of care to see that this Bill has been brought forward. Secur~y Force do not go out of the way to arrest persons without any rhyme or reason. Next is about the Clause 8. I am not able So, there are some restrictions placed on to understand whytheGovernment has come them. We have got a salutary provision by forward with it. It says: having these restrictions. Some strings have been praced on the security force. I have "Any supervisory officer may dismiss, already submitted that they are not eqUIva suspend or reduce in rank any enrolled lent to the police force They are entIrely member whom he thinks ... " different. So, onty in case of imminent dDn gar to the installation or to industnf:.:s or to VJhen the superior officers feel that one of persons, they get a right to arrest. Now, thIs the members of the force has committed an salutary provision is sought to be tdken away otfepce, It has got a right to dismiss him. by this amendment. That is why, I say that suspend him or reduce him in rank. Now, out though this amendment looks very innocu of these three things, the word Isuspend' is ous, yet it is pregnant with danger. (Interrup being taken away and the word 'removal' is tions) I am not talking about the extran80US ther~. \Vhat IS the difference between dis factors. I amtatking only about the Bill and Its missal and removal? Are they synonymous? clauses. Please give me some tIme. You Is there any difference? when the Centre has want to remove the word Imminent. You got the right to dismiss why do you want to want to remove it in almost the same way as thiS word 'suspend' to be substituted by the the police force had done. There are a number WOld 'romoval'? Why do you want this word? ~fc8ntral industries and public sector under Suspension means when a person is found takings in the States also. Some of the to have committed an offence in the derelic States are ruled by non .. Congress Govern tion of his duty, he is entitled to an inquiry. ments. PoJice force is there. You are giving DUring inquirY, he is suspended and then almost &qual powers to this force. Ttl at enqUiry Qoes on. And if in the enquiry, allega means, fOU are creating a conflict between tlon~ against him are proved, he is dis the forces. Is it correct? Now, when you are missed. But If In the enquiry, allegations are trying to create forces in the States like thot, not provtJd, he is reinstated and his suspen it is incumbent upon you to seek the opInion sion is revoked. That is a salutary provision. 113 c.ntraJ Industrial security VAISAKHA 21,1911 (SAKA) Force (Amdt.) Bill 114 Now you are removing the word 'suspen workers. But in this Bitt it has bean sug .. sion'. In section 8, the word 'suspend' is gested that the word 'suspend' be substi .. substituted by the word remove. That means, tvted by the word -remove'. This means that nobody can suspend him. You can only the Government intends to remove all the remove him. And you will go with inquiry after workers who woukf not toe the 1.n8 of the removing him and then you" will come for- management of the Government instaUa ward and say whether the allegations are tions. proved or not. When it is proved, you dismiss him. Is it the purpose of this amendment? I Just nowthe 4th Pay Commission award am not able to understand it. I am sure that In respect of DA was announced in this this word 'suspension' and substituting it House. The award was meantforthe Central with 'removal' will put it into danger. I do not Government employees only. Nobody knows know why the Government has come for whether it will be extended to other Govern ward with this amendment. ment undertakings also. Perhaps not; at least not for all the Government undertak Under these circumstances, I am not Ings. This is one of the reasons for the able to support this Bill. 1requesttheGavern glleva:1ce of the employees of different ment to rec;onsider this Bill. Do not rush It Government undertakings. For this reason through. You please see what has been they may go In for a strike. If the working recorded while the Bill has been sent to the force goes on strtke and if they do not follow Select Committee and what were the cbjec~ the Itna of the management ot these Govern tions? What were the reasons? Why do you ment undertakings and if any strike is staged simply interfere in this well-considered Bill In these undertakings, what will happen to that has been brought in 1968? You have not the stnking wOlkers? Suddenly the manage taken car~ of going through it. ment would think that they are hampering the working of the installations and they may With these words, I conclude my speech. evan remove the striking workers. SHRI A.P. DAS (Krishnagar): Mr. In the earlier provision the m&nagement Chairman Sir, I raise to oppose this Bill. could only suspend the workers. Rut accord When it was first tabled in this House it was Ing to this amending Bi:1 they can be re opposed by all the Opposition leaders at that moved summarily. This shows thattne ints,,· time. Even whon it was sent to the Select tfon of the Government;s malfide. 'tdoes not Committee, the OpPOsition again in the even hide thi~ Intention which may go against Committee meetings opposed it. We have the nght of the workers who have been got no other alternative but to oppose this Bill struggling for many years. Therefore to the in strong terms. extent we could say that it is anti-workers and anti-people Bill. That iswhy I oppose this The very intention of this Bill is to en 8111. . croach upon the rights of the States. The Bill also intends to curb the democratic rights of The second provision that has been the workers and all the working force of the given in Section 1 1 of the principal Act is that country. For these two reasons I cppose thiS in clause (iii) the word 'imminent' shall be Bill. onlittE\d. In the earlier provision the phrase was 'Imminent danger'; thereby the word Although it may look very innocent, If we 'trnmlnent' was a qualifying one. The word take thase two provisions-one in SectIon 8 'Imminent' is a qualifying word to danger. and another in Section 11-they will prove But, here, in this amending Bin, it has been that he intention of the Government is not as provided that the word 'imminent' should be innocent as H appears. In the first place, In omitted. By saying that. the very meaning of Section 8 of the principal Act in clause (i) danger has been widened. But in the earlier there was a provision for suspension of the prOVISion, the danger was Qualified by the 115 OfIntrallndwtrial security MAY 11,1989 Force (AmdL) BII 116 [Sh. R.P. DIS] 'English] wold 'imminent'. That way, the CISF could In section 10 of the principal Act 'or clause, take no action, until the danger was immi (d), the following clauses shall be SUbsti nent. But, here, the word limminent' has tuted namely: been omitted. Therefore, Sir, now, the power of CISF has bean widely enhanced, by which I(d) to pratset and safeguard the employees they could take any action against the strik of the industrial undertakings and installa ing workers. At the same time, I do not have tions any doubt the functioning of the manage ment. But. whenever the management finds [ Translarion] itee" in trouble, it takes the help of the CISF by taking action against the unwanted strik Emphasis has been laid on this aspect only. ing workers. In that way, the CISF acts But in the amonded section it has been against the interests of the workers and fhe stated that: employees. Therefore, I think the very provi· aion is anti-democratic and anti·wofkers. So, [Engljsh] , oppose the amending Bill in its entirety. 'to protect and safeguard the employees of [ Translation] ttte tndu~trical undertakings and installations referrod to 1ft clauses (b) and (c);' SHRI AUUB KHAN (Udhampur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. The [ Trans/ation] Central Security Force Act was enacted in 196810r regulating thepowersofth~ C.I.S.F. This means that by this amendment the in the Public Undertakings. Tho present Bill responsibility of safeguarding and protect has been brought with a view to remove ing the employees and workers of the Public certain shortcomings in the 1968 Act. Undertakings h3S been fixed. It was neces sary to mCl~e this amendment as well. Simi The amendments which have been larly. an amendment has been made in proposed in this Bill are necessary. They are SectIon 11, of the principal Act. In this, the necessary for clarifying the powers of the Gov(!rnment has given unlimited powers to C.I.S.F. For example. every Offlc.,lll of tile Force, which I think is not proper. Th8se powers should be vested with [English] an oiflcer of a specified rank or level. There fOI e, I would lih.e to suggest that the Govern In section 8 of the principal Act, In clause (i) ment should look into this amendment and for the word 'suspend' the word 'remove' see whethAr unlimited powers should be shall be substituted. 9'VP.rl at all levels. It should be kept in view that powers should not be given to every [ Translation] officor 01 the force ~,nd should be given at a SpeCifip.d level or rank. The officers of this Force had the powers to VVlth this suggestion, I support this suspend their subordinate but they did not amonding Gill. have the powers to remove them. The pow ers do no1 become clear with the word tsus- [English) pend'. Therefore. it was essential to substi tJJte the trrm 'suspend' with the word 're SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS (Mava move'. Similarly, the second amendment lika,a): MI. Chairman, Sir, this Bill has got has been made in section 10 of the prinCipal very su,ious consequences. It is in the garb Act as under: ot a lamb but it is a wolf. It is going to affed ~ the industrial ' .. Iatio(te in the vari have to ..avoided Md for that .... COOt ous public eector undertaldnp ~ 1M dinatlan is ,.,...", inVOJY8fMId of ClSF in strikes and without any inhibition and at their own dloice is N.1he end Iwould 1k8 to say thai ..81 permitted by this SUI. Th. word 'imminent' i& very dangerous and I request that • mar when it is changed mea,. these pare-mili be withdrawn and Government may ..., tary forces can arrest a peraon without any make mare inquiry, Into the wortdng of CISF other normal process of law. It can take and private security force in this country. cognizance of any offence and arrest them. They wHI utilise this Bill against the working class. Therefore, I oppose this Bill. Gov.m ment must give the guarantee that it will not [ Translation] be used against the working class. I fear that ~ will be used against the working class. SHRI RAMASHRAY PRASAD SINQH (Jahanabad): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I strcMgIy oppose the Central Industrial Security Faroe The second point is that if we analyse (Amendment) Bill. The Government Intendl the working of the CISF at present really it is to make amendment in Section 11 of this BIlL some sort of a new kingdom estabfished On the face of it. it appears to be a very inside the State territories. Clashes between ordinary Bill but in reality, a very dangereul CISF and local police have been reported legislation is being proposed. It is an _ul several times. Cases have been registered on the rights of the workers as it can be uMd of these clashes and they are pending in to crush the strikes. This Act was amende4 in Cochin port. In fact CISF clashed with the 1983 and it is being amended again. Cia.. local police. This becomes a question of e of the Ad. which provided for suspensbn, jurisdiction and law. What steps Govern has been now substituted by removal. This Is ment propose to take to streamline the CISF the most dangerous provision. Previously, in so that such clashes are avoided. case of such charges, a worker was first suspended. thereafter. due enquiry was Another thing which I would like to point conduded and only after that the procadute out is that along with this there is another set for his removal was taken up. Now the pR) of private security force working in several cedure for removal will start directly. 1bta II public sector undertakings where CISF is what is e~ident from the amending BiU. This enrolled. Similarly t there ara 80 many agan exposes your real intentions. This BiH was cies which are running private s~rity serv .. opposed earlier also. Subsequently, it w. ice in various parts of the country. These referred to the Select Committee. In fact. the agencies ara looting money from the people. Report of the Select Committee should have They register ex-servicemen and aft that. been discussed before bringing this BI In They make a list and they say they are being the House. On the one hand, the Govern sent to serve the public sector undertakings. ment hails the democratic procais ancfon I have com. across several such instances. the other the very system is being under Therefore, I subm1lthat in the name of secu mined. Sometimes the Government claims rity force there is exploitation by way of that it is taking measures for the decentralI establishing private security force which sation of power and sometimes ov.,..c.n should be checked. It seems Government tralisation is resorted to. By this Bli the has given licences 10 numerious such or Central Govamment will tak~ away the rtghta ganisations. They wear the uniforms of tome of the State Govemments also. When" the other colour. They also work along with Govemment prot_ to uphold lGCialilm CISF. I wonder although what will be the and the democratic system then th1I III poattion .the number of workers in a factory should be withdrawo. All the powers _ may be lees than the number d prtrate already there. ~ is no nMd to make.,. MnlJriIv force and CISF. Thia anomaly wNI amendments. Hence, I oppose the _ 1,. Cen"'" Indultrial Ht:UrIty MAY 11.1989 Fott»(Amdt.),. 120 KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE these seventy-thousand people.. Have you (Jadavpur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I support the made a study to flncl"out how much they are Central Industrial Security Force (Amend helping for the national cause and to What ment) BHt. This is a very a importam Bill, for extent they are protecting the public sector the maintenance of industrial peace. Many undertakings? Onfy day before yestelday, hone Members have submnted that the the Ordnance Factory at Nagpur had a big management 18 Hable 10 misuse powers fire; some six thousand people were evacu against the workers. Therefore. tt is impor· ated. Next day. again in Maharashtfa in tant to pay attention in that direction. In our another Ordnance Depot at Pune there was country thare is a common tendency to fire. I want to know what is the contribution of misuse power. The C.I.S.F. s engaged in this force in respect of assistance to the Industries and in the Punjab Sector Under public sector undertakings. That must be takings. The CJ.S.F. cannot take any action mentioned in this House. in a deteriorating Jaw and other situation. The r.serve forces engaged in the industries I am connected with some of the Umon have to take instructions from outside. law In Mazagaon DOCK. In this public sector and order is a State subject. It shou Id be undertaking, the major culprits are Ibig offi made clear whether the C.I.S.f. can take cers and bosses. They are draining away all action, without the prior instructions from the the money; they are linked with some priva18 State Government. This position shoutd be sector people. In BHEL, in the last eight clarified. In case there is a question of mak months, there is no work and contracts are ing arrests. it should be essential io consult being given outside. What is the use of th.concerned Union. The management may bringing para-milrtary force at the gate? Are misuse it powers during strikes and demon they going to protect the worKers? Sir, you strations of the workers. The management are a union leader. Is there any fight among should not be given one-sided powers. The the workers? There are no fights. They are \ unions should be taken into confidence irre CIvilians, they are ordinary people. When spective of whether the union workers have such people are working there, at the gate affiliations with the CPM or the HMT. Their and in the factory, you are bringing para opinion should be taken into consideration. military force with fIrst class training. What is The ex-servicemen should be recruited in the need? They can arrest anybody, if they theC.I.S.F. The people who have served the fmd them assaUlting. Have you got any In country should be given an opportunity in stances of the workers fighting among them such services. It is important to recruit ex selves? Why are you giving them summary servicemen atso from the point of view of powers? Earher, if there was imminent dan maintaining industrial peace. With these ger, they could arrest them; now they can words. I conclude. arrest anybody. That is too much. [English] With applying its mind, this Government is bringing forward such type of legislation OR. DATTA SAMANT (Bombay South and unnecessarily incurring such type of Central): Mr. Chairman, Sir, there are sev expendIture. These workers are governed enty thousand Central Industrial Security by the Industrial Disputes Act and the Stand Force in 188 public sector undertakings. And ing Orders recen~y. four hundred of them are being Fourteen thousand wotkers come at given black-cat training. I have pone through dIfferent times to the Mazagaon Dock. You the report and I get an impression as if hav~ para-military force at the gates. They something is happening on the China front. do not hflve 303 rifles now, they have been According to the report, they have JO far given new machines. They are goin_g to act rpvered stolen property worth ~s. 75.84 at the gates as mttitary men. I rl,ust tell you lakhs; some 1806 criminals have been sr: that this Is defin~ely going to lrlcrease the ...ted. You are spending a lot of money ~ labour unrest. 121 GllnttallndustrialstICurlty, VAISAKHA21, 1911 (SAKA) Forcs(Amdt.}BIII 122 Then, the workers have got legnimate His main crtticism was that the workers should rightS to resort to agitations, slow down, sit not be harassed; they should not be led to down. strike etc. What Is the training of these any undue harassment. people to handle such situations? Even Russia is considering of giving striking rights CISF, as you have rightly said, started to the workers, but here you are going to its function in 1968 and subsequently the Act have para-military forces with strengths in was brought in 1983. In the beginning. h was their hands. a force of only 3192 members and its mem bership now has grown to 63000 and ~dd. SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN OEV: You Not only that, they are now protecting about mean to say that in India there is no striking 182 installations all over the country. Gov right. But they have no right to damage the ernment is trying to increase Hs capacJty to public property. see that about 200 installations are pro tected by the CISF. During the period from DR. DATTA SAMANT: What is the 1968 till now, CISF has done a very wonder .. need to have military men with stenguns at ful job. the gate? I must say that this piece of legis lation is unwarranted. It is not needed. As I I have my personal experience about it. said, such type of military force at the gate of I come f rom Assam and I have seen the the public sector undertakings is definitely Assam agitation days. You said that this going to increase the labour unrest. In force should be removed from the gate and Mazagaon Dock, we have strongly objected they should not be kept there. But during the to this. They do not know how to deal with the Assam agitation we have seen CISF doing a workers. I am, therefore, totally opposed to wonderful job of protecting the public sactor this Bill. undertakings and other refineries. They had done their work with a lot of responsibility. 17.00 hr •• SHRI SATYAGOPAl MISRA (Tamluk): I totally oppose the second and the last It is not true in all the cases. In the case of amendment. some semi-conductor complex in Chandi garh... Then, it has been said that you remove the word ·suspend'. I think they are not going SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN oev: It is to suspend the workman; they are not gOing very difficult for us to satisfy all the unions. I to suspend the follow workmen. So, all such know the unhappiness of CPM and Dr, Datta types of words should be removed. Sam ant because you always want to create agitation tor some or the other reason. Many Members from the other side were Government is not against the legitimate saying that the retired military force should demands of the workers. The have been be used in the public sector units as they are given the right to strike and for 100 hrs, 20 better and mors discipl!ned people. I would hrs and 15 hrs strtkes have bean called. say that you please do not create this ghost Government has never gone against it. in the industry. They may be good for the Recently in the Dock strike, you said that border bijt they are not required to serve at Government has negotiated with all the un the gate. ions. The role of the secur~y force is to secure the installations. It is wrong to say THE MINISTER .OF ST-\TE IN THE that when the security force protects any MINJSTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI installation, it protects the interest of the SONTOSH MOHAN OeV): Sir, I think, Mr. workers alone; it protects the interest of the Datta Samant was the only parson who Government also because Government is opposed this Bill vehemently and the others also interested to protect the interest of the opposed it for the sake of Opposition only. workers. I 128 c.ntreIlntIustrIaI s«:urIty MAY 11, 1989 'FtJI'CII (AmdL) • 124 [$h. 8ontoeh Mohan Oev] The motion was ado/bd.\ So, our intention is not to do anything. Clauses 2 to 5 KI.,. addMJ to tINt M. TheIl.,. very simple amendments. (Inter- rupt/onI) MA. CHAIRMAN: The question, is: MA. CHA1RMAN: Please take your "That clause 1, Enacting Formula and aut. Whatever you are saying will not go on Long Title stand part Df the Bil. - record. Ths motion was adopted. (lnterruptions)* Clause 1. Enacting Formula .ndthtl) Long SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV: I know Title were added to the BUI. that in certain areas even your Govemment haaukedfortheCISF. So, how can you say SHAt SONTOSH MOHAN DEV: I beg that that is not the thing? The amendments to move: which have been brought are very simple am.ndments and the Government's inten tlThat the Bill be passed. tion is to see that the CISF could work .ff&dively. It is not to harass any particular MA. CHAIRMAN: Motion moved: type of workers. As you very rightly said, .uepenaion is not against the workers. "That the Blil be passed.· Then there has been a misktake in the SHRI K. RAMACHANDRA REDDY: I original draft which has been corrected. The would like to know from the hone Minister right of removal is always there. It is an whether the power to arrest given to the inherent right and by amending it we are not CISF will not be used against the workers. trying to bring anything new. This was al Will you give a guarantee? ready there. I can say that the CISF is functioning very effectively and efficiently in DR. DAnA SAMANT: The Home protecting the installations. We have no Minister cannot give any guarantee. All these reason whatsoever to go into confrontatIon powers given to the CISF are only to sup wtth working class. Rather, we protect the press the working class movement in this int.ests of the labour. This is a very simple country. I oppose this Bill and I walk out. 811 and I hope you an will accept it. 17.06/1/2 hrs. MR. CHAIRMAN: The question is: [At this stage. Dr. Dana Samant kit the 'That is the Bill further to amend the House] Central Industrial Security Force Act, 1968. as passed by Rajya Sabha, be SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DE". :;11', I taken into consideration. " am not an astrologer. Sitting here I cannot visualise any situation that may emerge tater. The motion was adopted. ~ is not possible for me to alva any guarant.. about it. MA. CHAIRMAN: The House will now taM up Clau.. by Clause consideration of SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: Sir, thie the BiI. Bill is against the interest of the work ...... The question is! .."", CIau... 2 to 5, stand pan of th~ 811.- (inten'uptions)· -Not recorded. VAISAKHA 21 .. 1.911 (SAKA) Rule 1Q3 126 MR. CHAIRMAN: No plesse. 'cannot GESH (Chatral): Mr. Chairman, Sir, in con allow you. Nothi~ goes on record. nection with the diSCUssion raised by Shri E. Ayyapu Reddy on the Statement mad. bi (Interruptions) • the Minister of State in the Ministry of Per sonnel, Public Grievances and Pensions In SHRl1liAMPAN THOMAS: This Bill is the House on 19th April 1989 regarding against the wori(ing class. I oppose it and in liberalisatiot:1 of orders with a view to impftw protest I walk out. ing the representation on Scheduled ca.tea and Scheduled Tribes communities in Ce~ 17.07/1/2 hra. tral Government Posts/Services, I would JIka to submit that the Government is deeply (Shri Thampan Thomas then Isft the concerned about the upliftment of the.. House] communities and is making all out efforts in that direction. A number of Acts and laws SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN oev: I beg have been enacted to protect the interasts of to move: the adivasis and harijans and they are baing strictly implemented. Shri Ayyapu Reddy -That the Bill be passed." belongs to the opposition which suffers from the habit of finding fault with every actiOn of MR. CHAIRMAN: The question is: the Government. Therefore, when the Gov ernment initiated this progressive propos a' "That the Bill be passed." first. the hone Member raised this discussion with a view to get some credit out of it. StUhhe The motion was adopted. subject is very-good and IU'Ch a step had been essential not only frDm the point of view of our guiding principles and policies but also 17.08 hr•. from the ethical angle as well. The Govern ment's eHorts regarding thaliberaUaation of (Eng/ish1 the reservation policy with a view to improv ing the representation of scheduled cast.. DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193 and scheduled tribes in Central Govemment posts and services ;s praiseworthy. In this LlberallNtlon of Order improving connection, I would like to submit that unless Representation of Scheduled Castes these downtrodden and suppressed ~Ie end Scheduled Tribes In Central are involved in the development of the coun GovemmMt Service. - Contd. try and are made to participate in the devel opmental aclivhies as a group, we cannot MR. CHAIRMAN: Discussion under hope for the all round development of our Rule 193. We win not take up further discus .. country. sion on the StStement made by the Minister of State in the Ministry of Personnel, Public I would like to tell you that in good olden Grievances and Pensions in the House on days, people used to say this very p,roudly the 19th April. 1989 regarding liberalisation that in 1he Mahabharata times, whil, the of orders with a view to improving the repre soldiers were Ughting in the battles, thatarm &entation of Scheduled Castes and Sched ars were ploughing their fields undislUfbed. uled Tribes communities in Central Govern This might be a subject of false pride but It ment PostafServices. raised by Shri E. could prove extremely dengerious and inju Ayyapu Reddy on 4th May, 1989 rious if a war is [T~ 17.11 hr•• I SIR Y9GEstMAA PRASAD YO- {MR. DEPUlY SPEAKER In the C1!iJ ·Nat ...... 127 Disc. Under MAV 11, 1989 Rule 1" 128 [Sh. Yogtshwar Prasad Yogesh] them. This is so etther because they do notget an opportunny to reach that leve' or going on and the masses do not have else they are lacking the required know .. any Interest in it. The country cannot prog how. Therefore, their vacancies are not ful rass in this way. This is why even though the filled. We also find that their vacancies are freedom movement started in our country deliberately not flUed, so that when such long ago, our country got independence only vacancies remained unfulfilled for 5 to 10 when there was full involvement of everyone years, they get them dereserved to fill such In it and awareness dawned on the hariJans, posts With people from general category. the adivasis, backward classes and the Such persong are related to or in the good minority community people. We know that books of the bureaucrats who are appointed the freedom movement started by Rani out of the general category. They somehow Lakshmi Bai of Jhansi and Tipu Sultan could fulfill the qualifications and grab the pOSition. not succeed because of lack of invo'vement Thus what happens IS that their is big prob of the people belonging to all sections of lem faced In the promotion avenues. society. The Government has" taken a very Mahatma Gandhi had recognised thiS appropriate step to Increase the percentage very well. He was instrumental in encourag of vacancies reserved for the hanjan adiva Ing the harijans. the adivasis and the Igno SIS. I feel that thIS is a practical step because rant people who hitherto indifferent to the only such people can prove successful in freedom to movement, by creating aware bureaucracy who have liberal outlook and ness in them. In this way, the freedom who have no antIpathy for the harijans and movement got its full momemtum and then the adlvdslS We have seen that the adlvasis alone did It truly bear fruit. Therefore, unless made Significant contnbutlons to the free there is collective involvement of people dom movement There has been a collective working In the farms and forests, desired Involvement In the adlvasls areas as the king development of harijans cannot be achieved. as well as the common masses fight to gether With full commItment. ThIS is men One of the psychological and practical tloned If' history and I would like to draw your reason for involving the harijans and the attention to one such adlvasis area in Bihar adivasis in the freedom movement would called Palamau distriCt. The king Madni of also be that there are bureaucrats In power that district had fought With the Dritishers and who have a feudalistic outlook. These people It was due 10 the feeling of team-spirit, dedi· belong to rich and prosperous classes and cation and saCrifice that the Britishers were feel jealous of the progress of the poor defeated and they could not rule them. Thus sections. They lack the democratIc outlook these people do not have any feudalistic and the perspective of equality which shaul menttlhty. nor are they jealous of anybody's be present In them and therefore, they try to progress Thus the hanjan adivasis should suppress people. But the hariJan adlvaSIS enjoy an equal nght in the administration and who are holding high posts, do not create progress of ths country not only from moral obstructions in the way of the progress of point of view but even justice advocates that other people because they possess the they should be brought to the path of prog qualities of head and heart. They are not ress by aU means. If they are lacking the prejudiced against anyone and they have no know how, It is the responsibitity of t~e narrow considerations. It IS the bureaucrats Gov&rnment to take steps in this directidn. with feudal outlook who create obstructions Therefore, we want that the percentage of in the progress of others. It has been our the reservation made for the harijan adivasis practical experience that the scheduled should be Increased for their progress. castes and the scheduled tribes people are not able to get the benefit of the 15 percent BeSIdes, I would like to add thal all the and 7/112 percent reservations made for directions ar& required to be implememed VAISAKHA 21 t 1911 (SAKA) ,ffedivety In 1M Central Government. As the scheduled castes and scheduled tribe some of my colleagues pointed out that the are a prey to the set up created by our laCuna can be removed by filing the class 4 SOCiety. Today when our country and the . and class 3 vacancies by appointing the whole world is heading towards prog,.88. harljan adivasis without much consideration we have to destroy such a set-up. Mahatma since these people have the calibre of qu~li .. Gandhi was the pioneer in raising voice tying the high posts in the I.A.S. and I.P.S. against such a set up. Thereafter, Congress, However, so far as the States are con the largest party which got independence to cerned, corruption is noticed there to such India, took steps for the prosper~y of the .. an extent, that most of the vacancies meant backward classes. A certain percentage was for the adivasis are not filled. h is alleged that fixed for giving them jobs in the Govemment the vacancies have not been filled because services. Today the environment is nQt such the number of applications from the harijans that all the reserved posts may be filled. My or the adivasis was inadequate. This does suggestion is that such an atmosphere should not mean that there Is no problem of unem .. be created amidst the people belonging to ployment in the adivasis and the harijans. I the backward classes and the adivasis, so would like to subm~ that some people opine that they may come in Ught. Besides, the that the involvement of harijan adivasis is not Government should introduce aspecialtrain even considered in the semi-government. ing course for them so that vacancies meant For example a discussion on Municipality for them which are laying unfulfilled may be and C.S.I.F. was also being made and we fiHed by them. I would like to submit that the are not sure whether the position of reserva adlvasis and the people belonging to back tion exists there or not. Some of the hon. ward classes were respected even in the Members submitted that ex-servicemen time of lord Rama lord Rama had very should be appointed there. This s all right as kindly tasted the fruit plucked by Shabri. We the ex-servicemen may be dedicated and all believe in Lord Rama who was known as disciplined and must be appointed. However the Maryada Purushottam. Today we wor viewing the problem of unemployment in the ship him and follow his fQotsteps. Thereafter harijans adivasls, they too should be re Mahatma Gandhi and now the Congress cruhecl in such places. A certain percentage Party is propagtating the same tradition. We should be reserved for them since all the should give full and active contribution for adivasis who live in villages and forest areas the upliftment 01 such people. are unable to get news papers, my sugges tion.;s that the Government should take With these words f conclude while sup steps of a proper planning so that such porting the statement made by the hone oeople may be found and recruited for these Minister. vacancies. Those people should be given their due right in appointment. [English1 SHRI OAL CHANDER JAIN (Damoh): SHRI SAIBALLAV PANIGRAHI (Bhu Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I welcome and baneswar): I rise to support this Billbecausa support the statement made by the han. the Government has come forward with this Minist" of State in the Ministry of Personnel, resolution attar examinfng-the pros and cons Public Grievances and Pensions on April 19 , of it. Our objective is to bring about a parity 1989 for liberalising the orders from the point in all spheres, in sociat sphere. in economic of view of .ncreasing the representation of sphere. Since time immemoriaJ there have the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes been imbalances in our SOCiety. To remove in the Central Government. those imbalances, when the society is futl of inaquatitias, n~turatly to bring about a parity I feel that the resuns of the discussion what is required is to give some apeclal initiated on this subJect by Shri Ayappu Reddy treatment to the weaker section, to U.bIck will be positive. Our brethren belonging to ward peop'e: unless 1hat is done, they will '31 DIIt:. Under MAY 11. 1189 ",.,. 132 (Sh. SrtMlRav Panigrahl) towed to continue unfulled 1ndIfirJis.Iy .. t1fteworksuffers. Tho88~''''''bI never come up: they can never come at par filled up on She oonditloft that .... suitabli witt others. Therefore, tMre is much foroe candidates from the waakar Hdb1s and behind thts resolution. On the other hand, the SchechAed Castes aM Tribes are avaft. there is a plea taken by some people to able the incumbents wi1 be replaced by divide from the provisions of any rule or law.. candidates beloDging to those sedions. h People with vested int«est take such a plea can thus be ensured that work does not and defeat the purpose of the law. There suffer. Wlttl thesa wonts, Jsupportthis stat. for •• the present provisions wiN go a tong ment way to defuse that situatiOn and 10 ensore that things are brought at par. But at the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKEA~ Shri Tham sama I woutd bring to the notice of the hone pan Thomas. Minister that a situation should not be al lowed to prevail in which the vacancies [ Translation] continue to be unfilled just because proper candidates are not available. For instance SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI (Mondsaur): vacancies in a hospital or a college should Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Congratulate him be fiDed up urgently. "they are not filled up today is his birthday. for a very long time, then the work will suffer and such a situation should not be created. [Eng/ish] Another point I want to emphasise IS SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS (Mava· that proper training also should be imparted likara): Thank you very much. Sir. this is also 80 that the people working on their jobs can another gimmick when elections are com· show improvement in their work. Suitable ing. The statement made by the hon. Minis· training courses should be there for candi· ter and also the publicity show that their dates belonging to SC/ST categories so that intention is to protect the interests of the they can be property equipped to appear for Scheduled Castes and Tribes and they want examinations and they can come out with to gain popularity. That is one of the aims of flying colours. this statement. I have reasons to say so. With these words I support fully the PROF. N.G. RANGA (Guntur): Why? statement made by the hone Minister, be How? cause, as I said, steps should be taken to fill up the vacancies so that the situation does SHAt THAMPAN THOMAS: I have not deteoorate and the work does not suffer. reasons to tell. If the Government is bona Therefore, there should be some -period or fide interested in securing the posts for the time Imit, keeping the interests of the weaker Scheduled Castes1and Tribes, I would like to MCtions of the Scheduled Castes and Tribes ask, how many Managing Directors of Public in mind. W. know that- backwardness has Undertaktngs to the country are there now, bien there for a long time, there were differ belonging to the Scheduled Castes and ent types of atmosphere aJso and they can Tribes. Is there any anyone? not be Cf'U8d ovemight. It cannot be crued OM hundred percent. As I said, I repeat, in a PROF. N.G. RANGA: How manyyaars IOCIaty fuft 01 inequalities the objective should has one public servant to go on in service In be toaiv. equality and naturally some differ order to reach the Manager·s p:)sition? At ...1 treatment a preferential traatment is that time. were there ~ .~It candi· OIled tor. But at the same time there should dates to fill up those posts? be 1r1ining programmes, and emphasis IIIIutd be on «iucating tbam and vacancies SHA' ANADl CHARAN DAS (JaipUr)~ in 01 U..... -..d hospitals IhouId not be al- Have you got a Managmg 0iFed0r in '" VAtSAKHA21. 1.1' (SAKA) pUbIc unde~' the resuJt of exploitation 1or,**,d... Af .. time every one was equal Some paopte got PROF. N. G. RANGA: What was the the apportunily and exp10ited them. TheN paIIitiah five years ago? fore. the Harijans are the 8OCiD-eoonotllllc resu1t. When a Harijan 'eav•• , tris faith and SHAJ THAMPAN THOUAS: Rangaji, 1 joints any other faith. he is ~ of the am sony 10 say that, if the Gowernment can benefit of reservation. A Harijan joining take people from anywhere else belong to Christianity or Muslim ;s o~ changing ,. 1M inftuantial classes in this society t why faith. What is the criterion for a H.~an ac could the Government of India not find out cording to the Government? The dentaJ of peopIafrom the Schedu led Castes and Trbes benef"s 10 the Harijans who ware converted and such sections which are oppressed, to to Christianity means the violation of the head at least some of the public undertak Helsinki Convention and the U.N. Chart.r.1t ings? Nonel Still we found that these posts is a violation of human rights. Nobody should are baing filled up by peopte who be10ng to be denied legalrighton account of change of the forward class and upper class. faith. I request that the converted Christians from Harijans should getthe benefits of SCs In our polHical set up. how many SCs and STs. The Government should clarify and STs were brougtrt1nto lime light? Has their stand on this point. anybody thought of making a Harijan as the Prime Minister or the President or the Vice. The need of today is that necessary President of the country? We never thought reservation has to be made and necessary in that line. We find that no one has been Constitution amendment will have to be made encouraged or promoted in the political arena if you are reaJly interested in the cause of the to take up such posts. If you are really oppressed classes. interested in the upliftment of SCs & STs. then in the political set up that could have ( Translation] been done. It has not happened so. We have no will for that and we have never worked in SHRI MOHO. AYUB KHAN that line. Just six months before the elec (Jhunjhunu): Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I tions. you have come forward with a state support the Bill presented by Hon. Chidam ment. What is the consequence of this state baram which in'eludes the recommendations ment, I do not know. Because of this state made by Shri Ayyapu Reddy. ment, a few vacancies numbering about a hundred. wiUlbe created in Geologv Depart It is our responsibility to provide protec ment. Statistics Department and in some tion and to meet the sociaJ and moral needs other small Departments. I understand that of all the people of aU castes and communi .. the Prime Minister will intervene tomorrow, ties living in our country. There are a large and he may tell the entire nation that they are number of Harijans and Adivasis in our going to take up the cause of ses and ST s-. country. Mahatma Gandhi lived with them This will only be an election propaganda. I and realised their difficulties. It is our respon would •• to know from the Prime Minister sibility to retain the teservalion provisions when he intervenes or from the Minister and to fill up the quota prescribed for them. when he replies, the exact number of per- ,Vacancies reserved for them 818 not baing 10118, who are going to be benefited out of /filled up by the States on ona pretext orrha this Statemant. For the past forty years, we other. People of these communities _ .... not able to bring up these downtrodden deprived of promotions for one reasons or people to a normal leave. We should admit other. But, for how long are we going to keep ourfaiU•. these dasses away from us. It is our duty to provide protection and to giv8 proper Ie I would IIw D tar one more point. to ~ to them. God has created no distinc .... ,.cIirectr connecled. Harijans are ~n betWeen man and man, it II we Who t86 Disc. UntkK MAY 11. 1989 Rule 193 136 (Sh. Uohd. Aylb Khan) country. Most of the people of these commu nities are farmers and work in the fields. The create such distinctions, one who creates improvement in the agriculture achieved by such a distinction between man and man our country is due to the hard work done by lacks eense of humanity. A class was kept these people. Today we have established oppressed for pretty long time but the time our place in the field of agriculture. Our has now come when full respect should be country stands second after China in the given to our Harijan and AdJvasi brothers. It world in the matter of produdion of rice. is our duty to protect their rights. Percentage grounnuts sugar cane fruits and vegetables. of re.ervation in the services forthem should We have achieved fourth place. so far as befilled by thecandidates belonging to these production of wheat is concerned. This is the communities and they should also be given result of hard work done by these people and some percentage in higher services in army thiS cannot be ignored. Adion should takan etc. Some people want to exploit them in against the people who are occupying high every way but there is a great awakening POSitions and hate Hanjans. Our Hon. Prime among them at present and they cannot Minister has paid attention to their welfare. tolerate such exploitation. I may go to the He said that people of these communities extent of saying that they should not be Will be given full justice under Jawahar Rozgar called Harijans, h is a matter of shame for us Yojana. We should appreciate his feelings that we take some people as higher and for backward classes. Reserved vacancies some lower in our own country. It is our duty will be fIlled because of his instructions in this to give equal respect to all. It will happen only regard We should give him full honour and when we understand their problems by living respect. With these words, I conclude. with them, when we help them and remove the feelings of higher and lower from our SHRI KEYUR BHUSHAN (Raipur): Mr. minds. Djlputy Speaker, Sir, the Government is gOing to adopt a liberal policy in order to A good number of scheduled castes Increase the representation of scheduled and scheduled tribes people live in my area. castes and scheduled tribes in services. They should get Bank facilities and hOUSing This step should be appreciated by all of us. facilhies. The posts reserved for them In the We should give suggestions to make it more services should be filled regularly by the librae. Shri Thomas criticised it a little while candidates of scheduled castes and sched ago. He said that the Government wants to uled tribes. Strict action should be taken gain popularity because the elections are against those who try to hurt their religions near. It IS unfortunate that the opposition sentiments. We should visit there establish· pal110s want to reduce Its importance by ments and homes in order to solve their calling It on election stunt. We thought that problems. I should be our duty. They should the members of opposition would like to get equal respect even on religion baSIS. All diSCUSS thiS matter in depth and suggest those people who go to the mosque are measures so that the facilities being pro considered equal. No one is big or small. Vided by the Government may reach there Similarly. they should not have the feelings people and these facilities can further be that there is a different God for them. God extended. This aspect should have been has created all any every body has a right to discussed. I understand that Ayyapu Sahib worship Him. If somebody creates a differ has brQught this matter forward for discus ence, he J think, is devoid of human touch. If sion With the same object and he has thus a section of our people remains backward I It discharged his responsibility towards the is not in the interest of the nation also. We country. It is the responsibIlity of this House have to bring that section of people in the al:;o to see that Adivasis and Harijans. who main-stream of the country. It is only then ale the foundation stones of our country, the country witl gain its real strength. It will progress. 1n the army we find them posted on 8110 contribute to the development of the the border. In the fields, in the cities, wher- 191 DItc. Under VAISAKHA 21. 1911 (SAKA) Rukl193 '8 ever the development work as are being ridden and still after independence the~ .. undertaken, people belonging to scheduled leading the same type of life. It is. 1herefore, castes and scheduled tribes are found en he emphasised the need of reservation fa· gaged in alt the development works. What cilities to be provided for these people. have we done for them?' The steps admini stration is going to take are the results of the Bo1h Mahatma Gandhi and Baba Sahib instructions given by the Prime Minister. I Ambedkar were signatories to H. Even Madan feel proud to say that he was really a great Mohan Malviya who had deep knowladgeof man who made it a matter of principle. We religion also accepted it. At that time it was will implement the 'Anatyodaya' scheme and claimed th~t within 10 years the different we will try to ameiorate the lot of the poorest strata of society would be brought together. of the poor. These are the views of Mahatma Till now we have been unable to do so. The Gandhi and Shri Rajiv Gandhi is trying to reason for this is that we have notfilled upthe give a practical shape to the views of Ma reservation quota in the Central Govern hatma GandhLlf you look to the efforts being ment services. To fill up that quota we need made to establish peace in the world you will to bring about some charges in rules. But we find that Rajiv Gandhi speaking the 'lan are talking of the Central about the State guage of Gandhiji and the world is looking Government and the Private Sector? In fact, towards him. Mahatma Gandhi brought the the private sector offers 75% of the employ ideal of world peace before the people and ment opportunities in the country. Will the gave a new direction to the world. His sec policy of reservation not extended to that ond ideal was to raise the downtrodden sector? Cement iron and such other indus .. people from their miserable conditions. Shri tries in the private sector have been aUowed Rajiv Gandhi is trying to achieve that re· a free hand in this matter. People belonging solve. I and my party members are proud of to the Scheduled Castes work as sweepers ~. Somebody said why other political partft)s in Municipal Corporations. Why should the did not make efforts in this regard and why Scheduled Cac;tes alone do this work? Why Shri Rajiv Gandhi is very much particular should they spend their lives cleaning drains about it. I think that those who did not work and carrying sacks of garbage ortheir heads? within regard locked understand. We take class as a base and our leftist friends also After all Mahatma Gandhi had some understand the importance of the class hase. thing in mind when he said that all sections But, here caste has been the basis in our of society should work together and he put country. BabaAmedkar Sahib said that class this into practice throughout his life. Anum· basis has no significance where caste basis berofwomen belonging to Scheduled Castes exists. Class basis is not being adopted here are not getting any facilities despite their because caste basis exist, in our country. haVing studied upto Matriculation or B.A. Shri Rajiv Gandhi has now realised that this level. Even with these qualifications they will have to be removed. The Saba Sahib have to clear drains and carry garbage. How Amedkar ~nd Mahatma Gandhi felt that this lona will this go on? They should be given country wi"~et complete freedom and will be jobs in rnduslr'ial and other sectors on a reconstructed only when the lot of the poor priority basis. No educated women belong est of the poor is ameliorated. Poona pact ing to Scheduled Castes should to carry signed 6n 24 Dec. 1932 was a step in this garbage. Mahatma Gandhi wanted to uplift direction. It was fett that the struggle for poople belonging to the lowest strata of freedom will only be won if the entire society society. Out today they continue to work as came forward. History of India changed after sweGpers and their status is as low as be that. We got freedom. Baba Amedkar had fore. There should be a charge in this situ certain apprehensions at that time that the ation. And this charge can be brought about upper classes might not let lower classes by enacting new lawsorby providing afmore came up ~nd they will remain deprtved of all facilities to this section of society. The nMd facftities b~use they have been poverty of the hour is to increase reservation quota MAY 11,1988 {Sh. Key.- Shushan] Through a Constitutional amendment the reservation facility was extended uPto .,ct iapova the lot of the people engaged in 1990. Today the hone Prima Minister staled cIIuiAg perations_ There should be cent that reservation t~ tor Harijans, Girijana percent reservation for them till they are at and Adivasis will continue beyond 1990. par with other with other sections of society. AllpoIiti:af pMies should make joint efforts The statement given by the hone Minis· bIard. improving the social status Of Sched ter of State ft,r Home Affairs is in c0nso uled Castas 10 that people belonging to this nance with th.J feelings of the han. Prine section feel proud of their ptace in the soci .. Minister and the principles of Congress (1). I aty. Today peop1a belonging to Scheduled would say that the he was inspired by the Castes do not want to be a part of that hon. Prime to make that statement. These seciion because there has not been any sections are not getting reservation quota in significant change in their social status. Government jobs according to vacancies reserved for scheduled Castes and Sched j hope that according ~o the wishes of uled Tribes to the prescribed rules are not the hone Prime Minister every possible effort filled up and ~re kept vacant for some time. will be made to elevate the social status of Later on these vacancies are filJed upthrough Scheduled Castes and the Opposition will the general category. I also oo-operate in this matter. [English] . SHRI HARISH RAWAT (AJmora): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I thank the hone Prime SHRI E. AYYAPU REDDY (Kurnool): Minister for his declaration that even after That is not correct. 1990 there would be suitable amendments in the Constitution to protect. The reserva SHRI HARISH RAWAT (Almora): If this tion prov.isions for Harijans, Girijans and is not correct, I think I must thank you. From Adivasis. the opposition, you are saying that this is not the position. SHRI ANADI CHARAN OAS: The han. Prime has not announced any extra bene SHRI E. AYVAPU REDDY: As per the fits. As long as the Constitution is not changed Union Public Service Commission's report the reservation facility for this section will they have clearly stated; for one vacancy in remaaTI as it is. the General Class there are 122 people; amongst the Scheduled Castes for one vacancy there ara 120 applicants and SHRI HARISH RAWAT: My hone col amongst the Scheduled Tribes for one va .. league Shri Das is a Congressman to the caney there are 173 applicants. Therefore, oora. Yat he has not understood what the they have clearly stated that so far as the A. hone Prime Minister wants to convey. I have B, ..:: categories are concerned. there is no welcomed the hone Prime Minister's state necessity for reservation. As a matter of fact. ment keeping in mind the provisions existing more than the necessary quota is being fled in the Constitution. Probably hone Shri Das is up. lOme that I thanked the hone Prime Minister. 80th the hone Prime Minister and the Con SHRIHARISHAAWAT: I am coming to gr'" (I) truly deserve of praise. When this that point. matter was raised in 198'-' the late Prime Minister Shrimati Indira ;GaQCIhi categori. [ Translation] caIy stated that reserv,.tion tacUity would ....Iin these a. long as Harijans Girijans Sliveral urnes this matter has been and Adivasis do not come at par with other \ raised. It isciaimed thatpoltl rem_"' IdvancId .Ita of society. becaus. suitable candidIIIea •• ,.at ... 141 DIsc. Under VAISAKHA 21, 1911 (&AKA) Rule fS3 142 ..I thank8d fit hon. Minister because he also we are having tome other Items under said thai I a IUJtabt. Clndidate is not avail Rule 193. Therefore. at least it may take haI abfe the post wil not be fRIed up through the an-hour for lOme members tocOmpl•• their g.neral category. Vacancies aftha rtserved speeches. The House is ext.ndad by haf· quota wi" be filled up by Harijan candidates an-hour. Please be brief. only. This is the realOn why ~ thanked the hon. Minister and I think there should not be SHRI HARISH RAWAT: Sir, within five any causa for complaint over this issue. To a or six minutes I wfll-conclude. certain extent I am a critic of the Governmflnt and I am speaking more or teas in your line MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. there of thinking. At least this should make you are already 10 members waiting. Please toe happy. brief. ::Ir. the point I was coming to is that our [ Translation1 services are influenced by the upper caste mentality. Reservation may have helped 18.00 hrs. Harljans come into the services but the fur ther progress in their careers is hampered by SHAr HARISH RAWAT: It is very often adverse entries in their Confidential Reports. seen that of 40 vacancies exist, all the va Appropriate entries should certainly be made cancies are not advertised at a time. Vacan Ha Harijan works inefficiently or indulges in cies are advertised on piece-meal basis at misconduct. But I have seen Harijans work the rate of 3 to 4 posts at a time. these piece ing well. even better than there colleagues meal advertisements are aimed at circum because they have to prove that they are in venting the provisions relating to reserva so way less efficient even if they come from tions. The recruiting authorities apprehend areservedcategory.lrequestthehon. Home that if all the 40 posts are advertised at a Minister to take action against officials who time, the number of reserved posts will be deliberately make adverse entries in the higher than in case of advertisement for 3 to Confidential Reports of people from reserved 4 posts at a time. Now this mentality Is quite categories so that they are unable to rome common in Government offices. Our Harijan up in IWe. A strict warning should be issued to brethren and the people from the villages discourage such efforts by other officials have complained about it. I would like to also. Sir, many times it has also been S8en., request the hone Minister of Stat. in the Ministry of Home Affairs that all the vacan .. [English] cies likely to occur during a year. including those to created, should be assessed in MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now nis six advance and all the vacancies should be C1 clock. What about extending the House notified through a single advertisement 80 by half-an-hour? that prescribed number of vacancies .. reserved and reserved categories of people SHRI HARISH RAWAT: It is upto the are actually benefbed. House. Hyou want. I can continue tomorrow. I would also like to submit that today THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE there is discontent among the educated MINISTRY OF SURFACE TRANSPORT Harijan youths in the cOuntry that they have AND DEPUlY MINISTER IN THE MINIS no land. no other means of livelihood, no TRVOFPARllAMENTARYAFFAIRS (SHRI money 10 set up industries because they" P. NAMGVAL): Sir, we can allow to few of traditionally poor. Same is the positkH\ in them and W8 can continue the discussion regard to Adivasis. The number ~ such ' tomorrow also. educated people has incrNMd COftIidIIr. bIy and jobs are not available to them Md tAR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Tomorrow Government aervica .. the onty,..... of 14~ DIsc. Under MAY 11,1989 [Sh. Harish Rawat] in my are •• who ful1y quaJitv tope declared • scheduled tribe. They should be givan this livelihood for them to fall back upon. I would status. Similarly survey has be",n conducted like to say that a survey of these youths in respect of other castes also. I request that shoufd be made. It is all right if we could such tribals living in hUl areas of Uttar Pradesh provide them alternative employment, oth may also be granted the status of Scheduled erwise they should be provided ad hoc Tribes. employment. We should try to absorb Har ijans and tribal people against the daily wage With these words I support the state posts so that discontent among them result ment made in the House by hone Minster of ing from their miserable position could be State in the Ministry of Home Affairs. At the removed. same time I again express my thanks to the hon. Prime Minister for his announcement in Yesterday and earlier also some of my respect of Harijans and Girijans. which has hone friends raised the issue that the benefit solidly identified the Congress Government of reservation should be made available to a w~h the avowed policy of the Congress and person only once. I feel that it is a very the cherished principles of Gandhiji in this delicate matter since son of a person, who regard. has already availed the benefit of reserva· tion, may have attained a specific standard SHRI K.D. SUL TANPURI (Simla): Mr. to be in a position to be able to qualify for a Deputy Speaker, Sir, I welcome the state higher post. But when we say that the benefit ment made by hon. Minister Shri Chidamba of reservation should be extended to one ram on 19th April on which Shri Ayyapu person only, his son will not able to qualify Reddy has sought a discussion. for the next post. That is why the Govern ment should categorically State that the I feel that from the day the Congress benefit of reservation wilt continue to be party and especially truly Indian Govern made available to Harijans, Girijans and ment took over the reigns of the nation, tribals uninterrupted as hithertofore. Simi enormous efforts have been made for the larly the benefit for more than once should uplift of Harijans and Adivasis and it is the also continue. 'f there is any controversy on culmination of these efforts that we find full this point, it should be left to scheduled reprosentation of Harijans and Adivasis in all castes and scheduled tribes to sort it out as the State Legislatures and Parliament. Simi to how many times they could avail this larly these communities enjoy representa benefit. Let them find an answer to it. tion in the I.A.S. and the I.P.S.ln other words we can say that every effort has been made For quite some time a demand is being by the Government to provide them better made to include certain castes in the list of facil~ies of education. No parallel to it is to be scheduled castes and scheduled tribes, found in any other country. Our friends inthe which were left out during the survey made opposrtion made some suggestions here at that time. In my own constituency also that the Prime Minister, the President of the there are a number of castes which were left country should be selected from among the out. I repeatedly wrote to the Ministry of Harijans and Adivasis. But there are no such Welfare, Planning Commission and the provisions in our Constitution either debar Ministry of Home Affairs and I again make a ring persons belonging to other castes from fervent appeal here today that the Gand· becoming Prime Minister or reserving ~ for a harvs caste, who are now starving due to Harijan. The opposition in our country never lack of protection and patronage to their gave a chance to a Harijans or a p~rson traditional mode of making their living through belonging to a minority community to be singing and dancing, should be extended appointed President or General Secretary of the benefit of reservation since they are their party. You take up any party C.P.M., Harijans. Then there are Anws/s in my area, C.P .1. or for that m.Uer any other party, no VAISAKHA 21, 191' (SAKA) Harfta" has everba{m made the party Chief. ciea in insta1ment* of. or 5. Elq)Jainlng It It is only the Congress party which made further he clarified that it was intended to Babu Jagjiwan Ram as their national Presi deprive thachildren of Harijans their rightfUl dent. It is the same part, which made Dr. share in Government jobs. Ambedkar as the Minister of law of the country, who provided guidelines of the As regards public undertakings, large constitution to the nation. Today, our hone institutions like Air India, Railways, I had the Prime Minister Dok a very bold decision by oppar.tunity 10 see their functioning. Repre· establishing a University after the name of sentation of scheduled castes and sched· Dr. Ambedkar. I WOlJId like to congratulate uled tribes in jobs in these undertakings is him forshowingconcem forthe Harijans and not even 0.2 percent. When they are asked Adivasis. The opposition parties have been the reason for itt they say that they are not engaged in the exercise of somehow bring capable and they lack training. I, therefor., ing the Harijans and Adivasis to their fold and ask you to open training institutions for them explo~ing them. You may recall that the hone so as to enable them to come up to your Member from Karnal, Shri Chiranji Lal requirement. I want to tell you that people not Sharma, was telling that the Government of in lakhs but in crores are available in the Haryana, neighbouring the State of Punjab, Employment Exchanges,who are capable to bulldozed 120 houses. The hone Member man these posts, but they are not appointed. had raised this issue during the zero hour I am very grateful to the hon. Prime Minister also. for taking for reaching decision that backlog of reserved posts would no more be carried SHRI HARISH RAWAT: The members over. Along with it he has taken one· more of the Janata Dal are unhappy over the decision that there will be 30 percent reser .. setting up of a University after the name of vation for the Harijan women in the Jawahar Dr. Ambedkar by the hone Prime Minister. Rozgar Yojana. The opposition parties go on The Janata Oal people in Uttar Pradesh saying that it is an election stunt. I would like have criticised it. to tell you that ~ is not at all an election stunt howsoever you may term ~ as election stunt. SHAI K.D. SULTANPURI: Hon. Mem Our Hon. Prime Minister is working for taking bers occupying the opposition benches are the country forward, you should cooperate very wise. Today only Shri Ayyapu Reddy with him and help us in our efforts aimed at raised the issue as to what could be done for welfare of the people. You are yourselves the Harijans. We welcome it. He has crossed indulging in election stunts. Every day you over from this side. We have to do lot of work cast aspersion on the Prime Ministerthrough in this direction and the opposition should newspapers and try to malign him. It lowers extended its Co-operation in this respect. I the dignity of the office of the Prime Minister would like to request the hone Minister of of the nation in other countries. But he is Home Affairs, who is sitting here, to pay unnerved by your tirade. more attention to filling up the backlog of reserved vacancies, as pointed out by the The focal point of our deliberations in hon. Member, Shri Harish Rawat. The Gov .. this august House is the interest of the nation arnmant shoufd identify tha natura of atroci and these have international impact. I am ties committed on Harijans. They are impli grateful to the hon'ble Prime Minister for his cated in false cases of rape, dacolty and endeavour to take democracy to the gross murder. I suggestthat in such areas, in camp root level and to uplift the weaker sections of posts, policy stations etc., I.P.S. Officers, the society. Our constitution provides for Collectors, Superintendents of Pol1ce and reservation for these peopfe. Our hontJte other officers belong mgot Scheduled Castes Prime Minister has taken a decision to con .. should be posted to protect them from such tinue it. When the Janata Government cam. atrocities. I share the views of Shri Rawat into power, they did not extend it. But wMn against advertising piece-mlal 100 vacan- our leader Shrimatllndira Gandhi cam. back 1.7 DIsc. l.JntW MAV 11, 1181 ISh. K.D. Sultan TanpurJ) parsons belonging to the generalcategoMe are appointed. to power t she extended it for a further period of tan years. Today we are thankful to the I would like to reter to a circular BSued Hon'ble Prime Minister for further extending by the Director in the Department of Person this facility and he has also said that this nel, which required an Adivasi or Harijans ptOYislon will remain in force tiN poverty is candidate to have obtained the same per removed and they are brought above the 08ntage of marks as prescribed for general pQY8I1y lin •. I again thank him for this. caAdidates to make him eligible to apply for a post under the Government. They can I would Uke to say something about apply on if they have obtained that very banks. As regards appointments in the banks percentage of marks and then only their against the reserved quota tor Scheduled cases can be considered. I want to know Castes and Scheduled Tribes backlog con whether you have withdrawn the above cir tinual year after year. There is a shortfall in culate or not. Unless this circuJar is with· lh. reserved posts for Scheduled Castes drawn, the Harijan and Adivasis candidates and Scheduled Tribes in the State Boards can not apply for the posts because many also. I would say w~h all emphasis at my institutions mention in their advertisements command that when you have issued guide that candidates should have obtained 50 per lines for the whole nation, the orders regard .. cent marks and if any Harijan or Adivasi ing reserved posts should be implemented candidate has obtained 35 per cent marks, uniformly in all our institutions. Besides, there he can not apply for such a post. Department are people who are not given leas8'of land of Personnel had issued this circular in the and who are not given possession of land past. You have not withdrawn it so far and allotted to them. The' number of people who many undertakings still specify this mini violate laws regarding land, whosoever they mum percentage of marks in their advertise .. may be, should be identified and they should ments. So the very first thing 1want to know be punished. The poor people have not been is that whether you have withdrawn this allotted land, Therefore, I would like to say circular Qr not? that the decisions taken by us should be lawfully implemented. These people should I have many other questions to ask but also be helped in setting up industries upto if I ask all the questions, the discussion maximum possible extent. I hope that our would be prolonged. We do not know exactly hon'bla Home Minister would implement what the reservation policy is and the bro thea.decisions fully and see that the people chure on reservation policy is too long. There belonging to Scheduled Castes and Sched are many things in the brochure about the uled Tribes are benefited. reservation policy and soma point or the other continues to be raised and people take With these words, I thank you for giving them to High Courts and Supreme Court and me time to speak. the number of cases go on pilling up there. Even today 100 cases about reservation are SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS (Jaipur): pending in the variouS' High Courts and the Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, the Hon'bl. Home Supreme Court. I would like to suggest that Minister has given a statement banning de you should set up a Tribunal to hear and reseNation of posts but I would like to submit decide cases of schedUiedcast88 and sched that are lot of draw backs in the existing uled tribes so as to .nsure their speedy reservation policy and therefor., the whole disposal. You have mentioned just now about policy Ihould have been listed for discussion de-reservatbn but you have not speclfted in the House,. Adivasis and Harijans are not the number of years the policy wiI remain.' galing the benefit under the policy and on force. WiH you kindly specify the period? the "..xt of non-avdability of suitable candidat.. belonging to these caIegoriea I would ... to submit one more poIIC. 149 Disc. Und., VAISAKHA 21,1911 (SAKA) Rut.193 150 When recruitment is made only 50% of the to take tough adion against the default.ra? backlog is covered. I would like to know What steps do you propose to take? about the policy regarding the remaining 50% posts which are carried forward. These The Government has provided suitable things can not be discussed her. properly reJaxatton in qualification and experience and these can be better discussed across and standard of suitability for SC and ST the Table. People belonging to scheduled ... candidates ;n direct in r89ruitment. Why such castes and scheduled tribes are not going to relaxations are not advertised while callJng be very much benefited by the statement for applications to fill the posts? At that time made by you. You will have to think as to how nseff this relaxation should be there. In that these people can be provided more jobs. context what steps do you propose to take? Therefore, the statement made by Shri Chi· dambaram appears to me to be ** ... Harijans There are nearly 240 public sedor and Adivasis will be the losers and the do not undertakings In the country. May I know In stand to ben9f~ in any way. (Interruptions) how many of these undertakings the Chair· man and Manading Directors belonging to [English] SC and ST have been appointed? What steps the Government propose to take in this MA. DEPUTY SPEAKER: That word regard? will not go in record. It is a well established practice that SHAI C. MADHAV REDDI (Adilabad): sweepers' posts who clean toilets8tc. should u ... It is not unparliamentary. be given to SC only. It is the policy of the Government previously. Now-a-days even MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: If it is unpar the upper caste people are applying and are liamentary I it will not go on record. getting these posts. In that context what steps do you propose to take? There are [ Translation] many high caste people who are also apply ing and getting these posts. SHAI BAPULAL MALVIYA (Shajapur): He has changed after crossing the floor. A number of scientific and technical posts have been kept outside the purview of SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS: That is reservation. It was probably done in 1960. I why I want to know as to how long will you would like to know whether you propose to carry forward this backlog? take action to revise this so that some Adi vasi and Harijans can also be accommo My second question is that the Prime dated in these posts. You have given a very Minister made a statement on 12.4.89 that long list. I want to know whether a new list fist serve action would be taken against those can be published so that Adjvasi and Her who did not fill up the reservation quota. I ijans will also get those posts. would like to know the follow up action taken by you in pursuance of the statement of the It has been provided in reservation rules Prime Minister. that a reserved vacancy be filled up by a general candidate if suitable SC or ST can [English] didate is not available. Under the garb of suitabil~y, even the suitable candidates are The Prime Minister had announced that rejeded to accom modale the general candi Government would take tough action W the dates even for stereotyped jobs like clerks reservation quota for the SC and ST were and peons. What suitable steps do you pro not filled. I would like to know whether any pose to take in this regard? Government Order has been issued to this effect. If not, how the Government propose There are many cases pending in the "\ "Expunged as 'ordered by the Chair. 151 Disc. Under MAY 11,1989 Ru/IJ 193 152 [Sh. Anadi Charan Das] men!. He stated that a large number of people have applied for the UPSC for only courts. How do you finalise all these cases? one post and many people were left without I would like to know whether a tribunal can be .employment. I would like 10 say that it is only appointed for SC and ST candidates to rep in the case of UPSC Class A and Class B resented their cases and where their cases Services in which so many people have will be settled in a few days' time. There are appJied and only some people have got it. some rules about application for SC and ST During the last five years, in UPSC, cent candidates. When they apply, you have to percent of the posts reserved for Scheduled give them TA and CA. Now ~ is given only if Castes and Scheduled Tribes had been filled It is more than 80 kilometres. I would like to up by the upse, only out of the pressure know whether you are going to relax this rule given by the Home Ministry and the Prime 80 that Harijans and Adivasis can come from Minister. It is not so with the other Depart 20 Km8. or 30 kms. distance also to appear ments. I will read out a statement about the in the interview and get their TA and CA. Like employment position In Madhya Pradesh. that, the huge backlog of reserved posts as on 1.4.1989 will be dereserved or carried SHRI E. AYYAPU REDDY: It Is for the forward. Will thesa posts be filled up by Union Services. Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe candidates? This is a very vital question. SHAI K. PAADHAN I: I have already You may reply to this. Like this, there are said that. I agree with your statement. In many other points. But I do not want to raise upse, only 100 to 200 persons are recruited all those points. I have already referred to all every year and that will not satisfy our posi those points. The Government should give tion. A large number of people are employed proper thought to it so that the Scheduled by the State Governments, public undertak Caste and Scheduled Tribe people will get ings, banks and the railways. benefit. The reservation policy should be discussed thoroughly, so that they will get I will read out a statement about the the benef~, out of it. Old policy is there and employment position in Madhya Pradesh. In a new thought should be given to this effect. Madhya Pradesh, the reservation quota for Scheduled Castes in 15% and for Sched MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just a min uled Tribes is 18%. The present strength of ute. The word used by Shri Anadi Charan Scheduled Castes in Class I is 2.13; in Class Das, according to our bulletin, is unparlia II is 5.31; in Class III is 9.17 and Class IV is mentary. 11.75. For Scheduled Tribes, ~ is Class I - 1.04; Class II - 2.44; Class III - 9.45 and SHRI K. PRADHANI (Nowrangpur): Mr. Class IV -8.67. These figures are by 1.1.1986. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to congratulate I am quoting this from the report of the the personnel Ministry for having made a Commission for Scheduled Castes and statement, banning the dereservation of the Scheduled Tribes. I mean to say that there is quota reserved for Scheduled Castes and a large gap between the reserved quota and Scheduled Tribes. the achievement of the reserved vaoancies , of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes Secondly. he has applied the formula of in States and many other Departments of promotion of reservation to the posts where Government of India, except UPSC. That is the recrukment percentage has gone upto why I there should be some method to fill up 75%. I congratulate the personnel Ministry the gap. Ther. is a rule that after every three for giving this privilege to the Scheduled years, the posts carried f'orward from the Castes and Scheduled Tribes. vacancies of backlog will be dareserved and transferred to the general quota. That has, First of an, I wouJd like to mention some now, been ended. The Government has thing, about Shrt E. Ayyapu Reddy's state- banned dereservatlon of posts; no post will 153 Disc. Under VAISAKt1A 21, 1911 (SAKA) RU/B 193 154 be dereserved; any post lying vacant against IB' posts why there are not sufficient applica the quota of Scheduled Castes and Sched tions for Class 'C' and 'D'Fsts when a large uled Tribes will be filled up only by the number of vacancies are lying in backlog in Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. every State for these categories of posts. This is a very great advantage for the sched The fil!ing up of vacancies in Class' II is to the uled castes and sCheduled tribes. On the tune of only 9.45% against the quota of 180/0 whole I would like to say that in Class III and and in Class IV it is 8.640/0 against the quota Olass IV there should be some policy change of 18%. Do you mean to say that there are no regarding recruitment. I agree that literacy candidates ready to be employed for Class percentage of tribals as a whole is worse III and IV posts? The candidates are there than the scheduled castes. It is because but they do not like to go to places outside the ~cheduled castes people are spread through district. They are concentrated in certain but the country In a uniform way whereas parts of the State and they do not want to go scheduled tribe people are concentrated in to other places to serve as peons or clerks. certain areas. Further education of the chil They are ready to go to serve in Class I and dren of the tribals is very poor because of II posts. Here I would like to mention about poverty. Even when their children get the Orissa. In Orissa we have 13 districts and in facility of boarding, lodging and staying in five districts they are concentrated where residential schools these children do not their percentage is 50 to 73 percent. In our want to stay there as their parents are poor Tribal Advisory Council in Orissa the Chief and they want to employ them for collecting Minister was kind enough to adopt district fuel and grazing cattle. I understa~d the reservation policy and according 10 the per· Ministry of Welfare has introduced a scheme centage of the population we give reserva to give some incentives to their parents also. tion in the district. Of course it is subject to It is a very good scheme. I welcome this the maximum of 50 percent. In the Report of proposal. I would like this scheme to be the Commissioner for Scheduled Castes applied throughout the tribal areas so that and Scheduled Tribes for the year 1984 it is the poor parents do not try to engage their mentioned that if this district formula is children in collecting fule or grazing cattle adopted in every district then even the sched· and on the other hand send them to schools uled tribes quota'will be filled up in Class III to pursue their education. This incentive and IV posts. Personnel Ministry should take money should be paid to the parents and up this matter and issue guidelines to the residential schools should be increased in State to adopt this district reservation sys tribal areas so that their education percent tem. age gets increased. 18.35 hr•. As far as r9cru~ment policy is concerned I wish there is a change especially in respect of Class IC' and '0' posts. Shri Ayyapu The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eleven Reddy mentioned that whereas there are of ths Clock on Friday, May 12, 1989/ large number of applicants for Class lA' and Vaisakha 22, 19 11 (Saka) Printed At : S. Narayan & Sons, Delhi-11 0 006