Wednesday Volume 528 18 May 2011 No. 160

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 18 May 2011

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 323 18 MAY 2011 324

I am sure the Secretary of State will join me in House of Commons congratulating the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the Garda on the recent Northern Ireland weapons Wednesday 18 May 2011 finds in East Tyrone and South Armagh. Will he give an assurance that the amnesty previously offered under the decommissioning legislation to those handing in, The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock and in possession of, such weapons will no longer apply, and that anyone caught in possession of weapons will be brought before the courts and any evidence arising PRAYERS from examination of the weapons will be used in prosecutions? [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Mr Paterson: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his question, and I entirely endorse his comments on the co-operation between the PSNI and the Garda and Oral Answers to Questions the recent arms finds in Tyrone. The amnesty to which he refers expired in February 2010, and we have no plans to reintroduce it. There is no place for arms in NORTHERN IRELAND today’s Northern Ireland. Everyone can pursue their legitimate aims by peaceful democratic means, and those caught with arms will go through the due process The Secretary of State was asked— of law. Independent International Commission on Decommissioning Security Threat 1. Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): When he expects to receive a final report on armaments 2. Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): What discussions from the Independent International Commission on he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the level of security threat from dissidents. [55380] Decommissioning. [55379] The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson): With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to Paterson): Close co-operation with the Northern Ireland begin by paying tribute to David Cairns, the former Executive plays a major part in our efforts to counter Member for Inverclyde, who died recently. He served as the threat from terrorism in Northern Ireland. This a Minister in the Northern Ireland Office for a short involves regular discussions with the Executive’s Justice time in the run-up to devolution in 2007, and was liked Minister. I look forward to continuing work with the and respected in all parts of the House. I speak for new Executive in the coming weeks and months on the many in Northern Ireland in passing on our sincere security, economic and community aspects of this problem. condolences. The British and Irish Governments have been Mr Hanson: First, may I thank the Secretary of State presented with the IICD’s final report, which focuses on for his tribute to David Cairns, whom I served with as a commissioners’ experiences and lessons learned. I am Northern Ireland Minister some years ago? considering the report with my counterpart in the Irish Government and we will publish it in due course. The Secretary of State will know that the PSNI is making good progress in capturing weapons and Semtex, Heidi Alexander: I thank the Secretary of State for but, with more than 100 bombings in the last year his reply, and may I associate myself with the condolences alone, I believe it is clear that supply is coming from he expressed? outside Northern Ireland. Will he work with the Executive, When the Secretary of State announced the dissolution the Home Office, the Irish authorities and, indeed, of the IICD and the Independent Monitoring Commission international authorities to ensure that he does everything at the end of March, he thanked the commissioners for possible to stem the supply of such material from the crucial part they played in assisting Northern Ireland’s outside Northern Ireland? transition to a peaceful, stable and inclusive society. Given developments since, what plans does he have to Mr Paterson: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for continue the work previously undertaken by those bodies? his question, and pay tribute to his work on Northern Mr Paterson: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her Ireland. He is absolutely right that we must make sure question and her comments. I would like to put on that at every level of government we work to stem the record our thanks to General de Chastelain, Brigadier flow of fresh arms into Northern Ireland. We now have Nieminen and Andrew Sens for the work they have unprecedented co-operation. That is the case not only done over the years. We intend to keep Parliament between the Westminster Government and the Northern updated on developments, probably by written statements. Ireland Executive—I pay tribute to all those who have recently been elected to the Executive, and I am delighted Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP): that David Ford, whom I spoke to this morning, has May I pay tribute on behalf of my colleagues to the late been re-elected—but there is also exceptional co-operation David Cairns, former Northern Ireland Minister, for with the Garda. I discussed this matter with the Home the excellent work he undertook during his time in that Secretary yesterday as well, so we are clearly working at post, and pass on our sympathies to his family? all levels. 325 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 326

Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): May I £200 million over the next four years. We are absolutely also pay tribute to David Cairns on behalf of the Select determined to stand by Northern Ireland and do the Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs? I had the right thing. honour of working with him on a number of Committees and always found him to be extremely efficient and Mr Shaun Woodward (St Helens South and Whiston) courteous. (Lab): I join the Secretary of State and hon. Members in their tribute to David Cairns. He was a much respected All Members will recall the show of paramilitary Minister when Labour were in government and a much strength by men in balaclavas over the Easter period, loved colleague and friend. Our deepest sympathy goes which brings shame to Northern Ireland. Will the Secretary to his family and his partner, Dermot. of State give an update on what is being done to pursue It would be remiss not also to take this opportunity those who obviously have common cause with those to put on the record the fact that the Queen’s extraordinary who were threatening violence? visit to Ireland at the moment is an enormous success. It is as healing as it is inspiring. The visit both symbolises Mr Paterson: I thank the Chairman of the Select the peace process and represents the next step in that Committee for his remarks. As he will have seen over process. The process is still necessary, as dissident republican the weekend, the police investigation into those shocking groups pose new threats to the police and the public; scenes at Easter took its course, and in one case charges just this Monday, a coded bomb warning brought huge were laid against Marian McGlinchey. I took the decision disruption to central London. What is the Secretary of to revoke her licence as she was charged under the State’s evaluation of the capability of this growing Terrorism Act 2000. I spoke to the chief constable this number of dissident terrorists, not only in Northern morning. The police investigations continue, and I am Ireland but here in Britain? confident that the PSNI will bring further charges when there is sufficient evidence. Mr Paterson: I entirely endorse the right hon. Gentleman’s comments on the significance of Her Majesty Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Will the the Queen’s visit to the Republic of Ireland. It is a Secretary of State accept—I am sure he will—that the wonderful way to end the current President of Ireland’s outcome of the recent Assembly and council elections two terms and it is a wonderful, ringing endorsement of in Northern Ireland showed a clear endorsement of the normality between our two nations. Significantly, moving Northern Ireland forward and a clear rejection the right hon. Gentleman and I are not in Ireland this of those who would use violence, whose philosophy is morning; we are here answering questions in Parliament. to wreck Stormont and drag us backwards? Will he give This is an endorsement of the tremendous progress that a clear commitment to work closely with the security has been made and a sign of how we will move further forces, the police and the new Minister of Justice in forward. On the question of capability here, we do not Northern Ireland to protect society and do whatever is like to get into operational matters but, as he knows, we necessary to protect all of us from dissident terrorist do not underestimate the threat of these groups and we threats? have done a significant amount in the past year to bear down on them. Mr Paterson: I wholeheartedly endorse the right hon. Mr Woodward: The threat, none the less, has clearly Gentleman’s comments; there is absolutely no place for heightened, not only in Northern Ireland, but here in the pursuit of any political aim by physical violence in Britain. We must all ensure that in Northern Ireland, as Northern Ireland. I congratulate all those who were well as here in Britain, no part of government resides in elected to the Assembly and to the Executive. Obviously, just hoping for the best; realism is as vital a tool in on this particular issue, I congratulate David Ford, to containment as is prevention. As part of that realism, whom I spoke this morning. I can assure the right hon. the British Government must continue to recognise Gentleman that we will keep up the very closest co-operation their responsibility in addressing the sectarian legacy of with the Stormont Executive on this issue. the troubles. What is the Secretary of State’s response to Co-operation Ireland’s bid for £20 million from the Mr Dodds: I welcome the Secretary of State’s action British Government—not from the Assembly—to ensure on the revocation of the licence of Marian McGlinchey—or that in Northern Ireland the big society is more than Marian Price, as she was known—as it sends out a clear just aspiration? signal to those who would threaten violence. Will the Secretary of State give us his assessment of the number Mr Paterson: Again, I thank the right hon. Gentleman of people he believes are involved in dissident terrorism? for his question. We increased the threat level from What is his assessment of the current level of police and moderate to substantial in Great Britain last year and other resources deployed to combat that threat? we are doing what we think is necessary to work closely with the authorities not just in Northern Ireland but in Mr Paterson: I am not sure that the number of those the Republic and to bear down on this issue. The right involved is as important as their capability. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that this is a policy hon. Gentleman knows as well as I do that these people of containment long term and we need to break the are continuous in their efforts to attack not just the cycle. We are extremely interested in the projects run by police, but completely innocent members of the general Co-operation Ireland, such as that in Kilwilkie, but public who are going about their day-to-day business. many of these projects are also run by the devolved Although these people are small in number, as we saw in Administration. As I mentioned in my reply to the right the recent elections, they do have capability and we do hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), we will discuss not underestimate the threat. That is why we endorsed this work with the new devolved Ministers. I had a £50 million of spending last year, and we managed to meeting with the chairman of Co-operation Ireland this negotiate an extraordinary settlement of a further week and I shall see him in Dublin later in the week. 327 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 328

Personal Protection Training With a new Executive and new Assembly in Northern Ireland and as this issue is a fundamental part of the 3. Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con): Whether he has Good Friday agreement and the political process over reviewed the personal protection training plan for the last number of years, will the Minister undertake to Government workers and VIPs in Northern Ireland in try to seek consensus among all the political parties in the light of recent trends in terrorist activity; and if he Northern Ireland as soon as he can? will make a statement. [55381] Mr Swire: The Secretary of State and I have been The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo very clear. We said we would return to this after the Swire): The Government regularly review the guidance election of the new Assembly, which has now happened. issued to staff on personal security and make them The right hon. Gentleman might not be aware of the aware of any changes in the terrorist threat. The Chief commission on a UK Bill of Rights, and the Lord Constable is responsible for the operational provision Chancellor has written to the First Minister asking for of close protection, which can include Government two people from Northern Ireland to advise on the workers and VIPs. implications for Northern Ireland. The Executive need to initiate a parallel process to come to some consensus Patrick Mercer: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend on what specific rights that recognise Northern Ireland’s for his reply. Can the Minister assure the House that, particular circumstances might look like. following the terribly sad death of Constable Kerr, specific training methods are being put in place to help Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): When members protect VIPs, policemen and the like against the threat of the United States Congress asked the same question, of under-car booby-traps? perhaps not as elegantly as it was phrased by my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), Mr Swire: Yes, I can. My hon. Friend will know, as he the Prime Minister replied in a letter that he stood did many tours in Northern Ireland, that the enemy to “ready to facilitate agreement”. Will the Minister tell personal security is complacency. It is incumbent on all me what steps he and the Secretary of State have taken those employed by the state in one way or another to be in the past six months specifically to facilitate this vigilant at all times. The Chief Constable goes to bed agreement? thinking about the security of his policemen and women and he wakes up thinking about them, too, as do we in Mr Swire: We have talked to a number of people, not the Northern Ireland Office. least the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, and we are currently advertising for replacements. The Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): Secretary of State and I have been quite frank and have The Minister will be aware that a small number of said that we want to return to the issue after the election civilians work in security establishments in Northern and to move forward on it, which the hon. Gentleman’s Ireland, particularly in areas with a high dissident terrorist party, I point out gently to him, did not do for 12 years. threat. He should also be aware that I wrote to him some three months ago about one such person who was Union (Referendum) trying to get a personal protection weapon to ensure his safety as he went to and from his work. Will the 5. Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Minister ensure that he gets in touch with the Chief Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): What his policy is on the Constable to ensure that person’s safety, in so far as that treatment of any request by a Northern Ireland can be guaranteed, in the light of this threat? political party for a referendum on the future of Northern Ireland as part of the Union; and if he will Mr Swire: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. make a statement. [55383] We take applications for PPW licences extremely seriously and they are looked into in great detail and independently The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo assessed. I am aware of the case to which the hon. Swire): No such request has been made to the Government. Gentleman refers and we will get back to him once we The policy and legal position on this issue is set out in have all the necessary details. the Belfast agreement and the subsequent legislation, the Northern Ireland Act 1998. Bill of Rights Gregg McClymont: I thank the Minister for his answer. 4. Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab): What progress has He will be aware that Sinn Fein raised the issue of a been made on a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland. referendum in the recent Assembly elections. May I [55382] push the Minister a little further and ask what mechanisms would be used to deal with any future request for a The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo referendum? Swire): As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, progress on this issue has been difficult in the absence of any Mr Swire: I do not want to dwell on the hon. Gentleman’s agreement within Northern Ireland on how best to domestic situation in Scotland—it is not the same in proceed. We want to see the issue resolved and we will Northern Ireland. The Secretary of State has the right be taking the views of the new Executive, political to hold a referendum at any point and he has a duty to parties and others in Northern Ireland on how best to hold one if it appears there is likely to be a majority for move matters forward. a united Ireland. It is quite clear in the Belfast agreement, but no such situation arises in Northern Ireland. Indeed, Paul Murphy: I am grateful for that answer. I want to we very much hope that the new Executive will concentrate pay my own tribute to the late David Cairns, who was a on bread-and-butter issues such as the economy rather fine Minister and a fine man. than issues that seem to be of interest in Scotland. 329 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 330

Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Does the Minister courts would have granted bail to the Old Bailey bomber recognise that dissidents try to make the argument on on charges of support for an illegal organisation? What the ground in nationalist areas that those of us who sort of message do our courts send out if they seem to support the Good Friday agreement have gone derelict take a softly, softly approach to confronting dissident on Irish unity? Does he recognise therefore that he has republican terrorists? to treat with validity those of us who make the case for framing progress towards unity? Will he confirm that in Mr Swire: The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the event of a referendum the British Government justice is a devolved matter. I believe that my right hon. would play no part in imposing or opposing any free Friend acted extremely swiftly and that he was right to choice that would be made by the Irish people? do what he did. The legal process will take its usual course. Mr Swire: The hon. Gentleman’s party’s position is well known and I pay tribute here again to the way in Economy which his party has embraced the ballot box and the democratic process. In a referendum, that would be for 7. Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): What the people of Northern Ireland to decide. I can do no recent assessment he has made of the state of the better than support the words of my right hon. Friend Northern Ireland economy. [55385] the Prime Minister—it is probably a career-advancing thing to do—who, in a speech in May 2010, stated The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen clearly and unequivocally: Paterson): Like many in Northern Ireland, I believe that we need to rebalance the Northern Ireland economy “I will never be neutral on our Union. We passionately believe that England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are stronger and boost private sector growth and investment. The together, weaker apart”. Government will work closely with the Northern Ireland Executive to help make Northern Ireland a beacon for I believe that, as Aristotle said, the whole is greater than foreign investment and growth. the sum of its parts. Terrorism (Powers of Detention) Alun Cairns: Enterprise zones in England are an exciting opportunity to grow the private sector, and I hope they will be delivered in my constituency by the 6. Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): Welsh Assembly Government. Will the Secretary of What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary State update the House on what progress is being made of State for the Home Department on powers to detain in Northern Ireland to deliver such an innovative terrorist suspects. [55384] opportunity?

The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Mr Paterson: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the Swire): My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and question. I have been travelling to Northern Ireland for I are in regular contact with my right hon. Friend the nearly four years and wanting to turn the whole of Home Secretary regarding this issue. The Government Northern Ireland into an enterprise zone, making it an are absolutely clear that reducing the maximum pre-charge attractive place for investment and building on all the detention period to 14 days will strike the right balance advantages that it now has. On my hon. Friend’s specific between civil liberties and the need to protect the public question, enterprise zones as described in the Budget from the terrorist threat. are now in devolved hands and I hope the devolved Ministers grasp the opportunity with both hands. Paul Goggins: I thank the Minister for his reply. [Interruption.] David Cairns was a fine colleague and I join all those who have paid tribute to him this morning. Mr Speaker: Order. There are far too many noisy The recent detention of three terrorist suspects in private conversations taking place in the Chamber. The Northern Ireland for periods of 13 and 14 days indicates House must hear Mr Sammy Wilson. that the Government are right to bring in arrangements to extend the maximum period of detention beyond Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): Recently the 14 days in exceptional circumstances. Given the likely Irish Republic abolished air passenger duty, which has pressures of those circumstances, does the Minister put at risk cross-Atlantic flights from Northern Ireland agree that the mechanism for implementing those and had an impact on the tourist and investment strategy arrangements needs to be both swift and straightforward? of the Executive. Ironically, that was done as a result of loans facilitated by the UK Government. Will the Secretary Mr Swire: The Minister does very much agree with of State ensure that in the renegotiation of those loans what the right hon. Gentleman has just said in his usual or any further loans, conditions are attached that stop responsible manner. The right hon. Gentleman is on the the Irish Republic gaining such competitive advantage? Joint Committee that is scrutinising the draft emergency legislation. I agree with everything he has said and I Mr Paterson: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on urge him to make his point very forcefully. The principle his re-election and re-election to his Ministry. He is is right and we must make certain that, if necessary, we right that maintaining good, cheap and quick transport can enforce that principle swiftly whether Parliament is links between Northern Ireland and the rest of the sitting or not. world is vital. I have discussed APD with Treasury colleagues. A consultation is going on and I would like Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): I welcome the to meet the hon. Gentleman to discuss how we work decision by the Secretary of State to revoke the licence together on the matter. In meetings with the Government of Marian Price. Is he as concerned as I am that the in Dublin, I will also raise the issue. 331 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 332

West Lothian Question Ian Murray: A successful and prosperous future for Northern Ireland requires the Government to deal 8. Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): responsibly with all outstanding issues related to the What discussions he has had with ministerial peace process. Does the Secretary of State intend to colleagues on the establishment of a commission to honour all those outstanding issues? examine the West Lothian question. [55386] Mr Paterson: Yes, I understand the tone of the hon. Gentleman’s question. We endorse the agreements. We The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo made that clear, as our record over the past year shows, Swire): I discussed the matter recently with the Minister but we also recognise that the past continues to be an with responsibility for political and constitutional reform, issue. That is why I am continuing to talk to a wide the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. range of groups, as is my right hon. Friend the Prime Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper). Minister, to see whether we can find a way forward on The Government will establish a commission this year which we can work with the Executive. to consider the West Lothian question. Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): Does the Secretary Harriett Baldwin: Does the Minister agree that, given of State agree that a coherent and comprehensive strategy the complexity of the West Lothian question, no time to deal with legacy issues is vital if we are to build a should be lost in establishing the commission? stable future for the people of Northern Ireland? Mr Swire: The programme for government promised Mr Paterson: I could not quite hear the hon. Lady’s to establish it in this Parliament, so the answer is yes. question, but I think I got the gist of it. As she knows, it is not easy to achieve consensus on this issue, which is Security Threat why we are carrying on this listening exercise and talking with a wide range of groups, and I am very happy to 9. Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): What talk and listen to her. assessment he has made of the security threat from dissident republicans; and if he will make a statement. [55387] PRIME MINISTER

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen The Prime Minister was asked— Paterson): The threat level in Northern Ireland remains at severe. Despite the overwhelming community rejection Engagements of their murderous strategy following the despicable murder of Ronan Kerr last month, the terrorist groups Q1. [55953] Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): If continue to pose an indiscriminate threat to the lives of he will list his official engagements for Wednesday police officers and the general public, who just want to 18 May. go about their lives without fear, disruption or intimidation. The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): I am sure Mr David: I welcome the Secretary of State’s comments, that the whole House will want to join me in paying but may I have a reassurance that everything possible is tribute to Marine Nigel Mead from 42 Commando being done to make sure that those people are apprehended Royal Marines, who was killed by an improvised explosive as quickly as possible? device in Afghanistan on Sunday. He was a selfless, enthusiastic and committed Marine who has made the Mr Paterson: I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that ultimate sacrifice in the service of our country. Our we take the threat extremely seriously. We do not thoughts must be with his family, his friends and his underestimate it. As I said earlier, we endorsed an extra colleagues. £50 million package last year for the PSNI and we have This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues negotiated an exceptional four-year plan of £200 million and others. In addition to my duties in this House, this over the coming years. I know that Matt Baggott, the afternoon I will be travelling to Dublin as part of this Chief Constable, to whom I spoke this morning, is week’s historic state visit by Her Majesty the Queen. already putting those funds to very good use. We are determined to bear down on that small number of Mr Hollobone: May I associate myself and my wholly unrepresentative, dangerous people. constituents with the Prime Minister’s words of condolence? Under rules introduced in 2003, illegal migrants who Legacy Issues manage to avoid the authorities for 14 years can apply for permanent stay, have full access to the welfare 10. Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): Whether he system and even obtain a British passport. Given that in plans to provide further direct funding for projects to the past eight years nearly 10,000 such migrants have deal with legacy issues in Northern Ireland. [55388] won such rights, and with an estimated half a million illegal immigrants in Britain today, will the Prime Minister The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen seek to change those rules and restore some sanity to Paterson): This Government funded the four public Britain’s border controls? inquiries into legacy cases, which were set up under the previous Government, so that they could be completed The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an important as soon as possible. I am currently considering what, if point. We have pledged to break the link between any, further role the Government can play in dealing temporary migration and permanent settlement in the with the past in Northern Ireland. UK because we believe that settling in Britain should be 333 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 334 a privilege, rather than an automatic right for those who the end of today. That is the first thing the Prime have evaded the authorities for a certain amount of Minister should do. The second thing he should do is to time. We are going to consult on further measures, drop this policy, because this policy, which they are including the future of the 14-year rule he mentioned, defending, is the idea that if you plead guilty to rape and make announcements later this year. We have already you get your sentence halved. That could mean that announced that there will be tighter rules for those rapists spend as little as 15 months in prison. That is not wanting to settle here and have already implemented a an acceptable policy, and the Prime Minister should new income and English language requirement for skilled drop it. workers who have been here for more than five years. The Prime Minister: I think that what the Leader of Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): May I the Opposition might be doing is jumping to conclusions start by joining the Prime Minister in paying tribute to on this issue. The point is this: there is already a plea Marine Nigel Mead from 42 Commando Royal Marines? bargaining system in Britain, for one third, and we are He showed exceptional bravery and courage, like all our consulting on whether to extend the system to make it troops in Afghanistan, and our thoughts are with his even more powerful. We have not yet decided which family and friends. offences it should apply to, or how it should be brought The role of the Justice Secretary is to speak for the in, because there is a consultation, but the aim of plea nation on matters of justice and crime. This morning he bargaining—it is worth remembering this, because plea was on the radio suggesting that there were “serious” bargaining is used in very tough criminal justice systems, rapes and other categories of rapes. Would the Prime such as America’s—is to ensure that more people get Minister like to take this opportunity to distance himself prosecuted, more people get convicted, and it actually from the Justice Secretary’s comments? saves the victim from having to go through a court process and find out at the end that the culprit is going The Prime Minister: First of all, let me say that rape to submit a guilty plea at the last minute. That is what is one of the most serious crimes there is, and it should the Government are looking at, and when we have be met with proper punishment. Anyone who has ever listened to the consultation we will announce our met a rape victim and talked with them about what that conclusions—but he needs to be patient until we do that. experience means to them and how it stays with them for the rest of their life could only want it to have the Edward Miliband: We are getting used to this. As we most serious punishment possible. The real disgrace in saw on health, when there is a terrible policy the Prime our country is that only 6% of rapes reported to a police Minister just hides behind the consultation. Frankly, it station end in a conviction. That is what we have to sort is just not good enough. Let me tell him what people out. I have not heard the Justice Secretary’s interview, think of this policy. The judges are saying the policy is but the position of the Government is very clear: there wrong, End Violence Against Women is saying that it is is an offence called rape and anyone who commits it the wrong policy, and his own Victims Commissioner should be prosecuted, convicted and punished very says that the policy is “bonkers”. I know that he is in the severely. middle of a consultation, but I would like to hear his view on this policy, which he should drop. Edward Miliband: Let me tell the Prime Minister what the Justice Secretary said this morning. He was The Prime Minister: The terrible fact that the right asked about the average sentence a rapist gets. The hon. Gentleman refers to is that only 6% of rape cases interviewer said, “A rapist gets five years,” and then the are prosecuted and end in a conviction. That is after 13 Justice Secretary said in reply, “That includes date rape, years of the Labour party running the criminal justice 17-year-olds having intercourse with 15-year-olds”. He system, so that is the improvement we want to see. He went on to say that there were categories of “forcible wants to know my view: my view is get out there, rape” and “serious rape”. The Justice Secretary cannot convict, prosecute and send these people down for a speak for the women of this country when he makes decent period of time. That is what we should be doing. comments like that. Rape is such a serious offence, so he should wait for the outcome of the consultation, rather than just jumping The Prime Minister: As I said, I have not heard the on the bandwagon. interview, but the point is this: it should be a matter for the court to decide the seriousness of the offence and Edward Miliband: This is about the way the Prime the sentence that ought to be passed. I served on the Minister runs his Government, because yesterday the Sexual Offences Bill under the last Government, where Justice Secretary said that this we looked at all the issues about whether we should try “proposal is likely to survive”—[Official Report, 17 May 2011; to differentiate between different categories of rape—and Vol. 528, c. 150] I seem to remember that one of the right hon. Gentlemen the consultation, and the prisons Minister was defending now sitting on the Opposition Front Bench was leading the policy. People are rightly angry about this policy; the debate for the Government. We decided, as a House they think that it is the wrong policy. All I am asking is of Commons, not to make that distinction. What matters something very simple: why does not the Prime Minister is this: do we get more cases to court, do we get more give us his view? cases convicted, and do we get more cases sent down for decent sentences? That is the concern we should have. The Prime Minister: I have given you my view, and I will give you my—[Interruption.] I have. I want to see Edward Miliband: When the Prime Minister leaves more people prosecuted and convicted for rape, and we the Chamber, he should go and look at the comments of are going to take steps to make sure that happens. But I the Justice Secretary—and let me just say to him very will give you my view on something else—[HON.MEMBERS: clearly: the Justice Secretary should not be in his post at “Oh!”] Yes, which is this: I think there is merit in having 335 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 336 a plea bargaining system, which we have already—and Hyman, who is seeking to set up one of the coalition’s which should be discretionary, to try to make sure that excellent new free schools in east London? we convict more. What we had under the previous [Interruption.] Government was a mandatory release of all prisoners, irrespective of what they had done. [HON.MEMBERS: The Prime Minister: It is funny that Labour Members “Ah!”] Yes, the right hon. Gentleman sat in the Cabinet do not want to listen to Tony Blair’s speechwriter, as that let 80,000 criminals out of prison. That was not a they listened with such rapt attention for so many years discretionary policy; it was a mandatory policy—and it to what he said. I welcome the free schools policy, and I was a disgraceful policy. very much welcome what Peter Hyman is doing in trying to establish a free school. I think this is an Edward Miliband: Does the Prime Minister not realise excellent policy. Yesterday we had a new policy from what people are thinking of him on crime? Before the Labour when the shadow Education Secretary said that election he made a whole series of promises, and now he just because he is opposed to the free schools policy, is breaking them one by one. He was out of touch on that does not mean he is opposed to every free school. anonymity for rape victims, and now he is out of touch We are back to the days of John Prescott, being told on sentencing for rape. He is cutting the number of that we cannot have new good schools because everyone police officers—cutting 12,000 police officers. Why does might want to go to them. We are back to old Labour. he not go back to the drawing board on crime, and get rid of his Justice Secretary? Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Does not the visit of Her Majesty the Queen to the Irish Republic The Prime Minister: Talking of broken promises, I this week demonstrate not just her own personal courage remember the Leader of the Opposition saying at his in carrying out such a visit in the face of severe dissident party conference, about Ken Clarke: terrorist threats, but also, whatever reservations some of “I’m not going to say he’s soft on crime.” us may have about one particular aspect of her visit, the Well, that pledge did not last very long. One of these extent of the improvement in relations between the Irish days the Labour party is going to realise that opposition Republic and the United Kingdom, of which Northern is about more than just jumping on a bandwagon and Ireland is a proud part, as well as a recognition of picking up an issue; it is about putting forward a serious Northern Ireland’s status? Is it not also an opportunity alternative and making some serious points. [Interruption.] to build on co-operation to fight the dissident terrorists who still plague us in Northern Ireland and in the Mr Speaker: Order. I call Sir Alan Haselhurst. Republic?

Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con): This The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman is question is by way of contrast, Mr Speaker. In harmony right in every respect. This is a remarkable visit that with the priority being given by the Government to demonstrates that the relationship between Britain and strengthening relations with the Commonwealth, does the Republic of Ireland is strong, and has probably my right hon. Friend attach importance to the particular never been stronger, with the successful devolution of role of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, policing and justice that made the visit possible. The and will he do his best to find a way of marking that scenes on our television screens last night of the visits when the centennial conference of the CPA takes place that Her Majesty made to heal the wounds of the past, in London in July? but also to look to a very bright future between our two countries, are remarkable and hugely welcome. The Prime Minister: I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for raising this issue. The Commonwealth Q4. [55956] Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Parliamentary Association is an important part of the Since it is the people of this country who have paid the Commonwealth. For the celebration of that anniversary enormous bills for bank failures, should not they get I have had an extremely attractive invitation to go along some reward for their sacrifice by being given shares and say a few words, and I will certainly see whether I when the banks are eventually denationalised? Will the can. Prime Minister look at the imaginative scheme put forward by my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol Q2. [55954] Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and West (Stephen Williams), which is now backed by The East Cleveland) (Lab): Why is the Prime Minister Sun newspaper, to do that? giving private and confidential NHS prescription records of 9 million British citizens to multinational The Prime Minister: I will certainly look at all the private companies that will no doubt show no mercy possible ways of putting the nationalised banks back with that information? into the private sector. I personally strongly support the idea of widening share ownership, so we will look The Prime Minister: What we are trying to do is clean carefully at the scheme that the right hon. Gentleman up the mess of Labour’s NHS IT programme, which suggests. We also have to make sure that we secure value cost billions of pounds and is still struggling. We are for money for the taxpayer as we try to fill in the great desperately trying to get it under control and make sure deep pit of debt that we were left by Labour. we can save money to put into health care. Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): Today hundreds Q3. [55955] Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): of women in their 50s, supported by Age UK, have Will the Prime Minister join me in sending a message come to Parliament to protest against unfair changes to of support to Tony Blair’s former speechwriter, Peter their pensions. The coalition agreement says that there 337 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 338 will be no increase in women’s state pension age before That is partly because the Government’s policy is absolutely 2020, yet under the Pensions Bill that increase will start clear: we are committed to retaining an independent in 2018. Why the U-turn? nuclear deterrent based on Trident. My right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary will make a statement to Parliament The Prime Minister: Yet again, here is another reform today announcing our decision to proceed with initial important for making sure that our pensions system is gate. affordable and sustainable that Labour has completely given up on. What we are doing with pensions is linking Dr Lewis: I am grateful to the Prime Minister for them back to earnings—something that was promised repeating our commitment to the future of Trident, its repeatedly but never done—and making sure that our renewal and a continuous at-sea deterrent. Would he pensions system is sustainable for the long term. That is give his blessing to hon. Members in the Conservative what we are delivering—something never done by Labour. party and on the Labour Benches who, like him, think that the nuclear deterrent should be above party politics, Q5. [55957] Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): if they formed an alliance on this important issue, just The people of England have almost as much to lose as we did so successfully on the alternative vote? from any move towards Scottish independence and the break-up of the Union as the people of Scotland. Will The Prime Minister: I agree with my hon. Friend that the Prime Minister therefore give us all a vote in a it would be better if we could elevate this issue above referendum on the subject? party politics. Indeed, when we voted to go ahead with Trident it was on the basis of a Labour motion that was The Prime Minister: I have made my views clear: if supported by most Labour MPs and almost all Conservative the Scottish Parliament wanted to hold a referendum, MPs. However, I have a feeling that my hon. Friend although I think that that would be a retrograde step, would never be satisfied, even if I placed a Trident we would have to grant it. I would then join with submarine in the Solent, opposite his constituency, and everyone in this House and beyond who supports our handed him the codes—something, I am afraid, that I United Kingdom to ensure that we keep it together. am simply not prepared to do. That is the process that we should go through, and it would involve a vote for people in Scotland, not for Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Why continue to those in the rest of the United Kingdom. waste billions on a national virility symbol that has played no part in any of the military operations that we Q6. [55958] Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East have taken part in over the last seven years, and is Falkirk) (Lab): I am a very generous person, so I unlikely to play any part in the future? Does it not give compliment the Government on eventually deciding to justification and encouragement to other countries in sign up to the EU human trafficking directive. A recent acquiring their own nuclear weapons? report by the Children’s Commissioner for Scotland said that he could identify 200 children trafficked into The Prime Minister: I do not accept either part of the Scotland, and ECPAT UK has stated that 1,000 hon. Gentleman’s argument. First, we are signatories to children have been trafficked into the rest of the UK. the non-proliferation agreement and are strong supporters Both bodies recommend that the Government appoint of it. Secondly, the point of our nuclear deterrent is just an independent human trafficking rapporteur and that—deterrence. It is the ultimate insurance policy strengthen the guardianship system for children. Given against blackmail or attack by other countries. That is that the Government have cut specialist teams in the why I believe it is right to maintain and replace it. Home Office and the police in this area, how can they assure the House that the UK is prepared for the Engagements responsibility that comes with signing up to the EU directive? Q8. [55960] Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is no case The Prime Minister: I will look carefully at what the for giving the EU powers over taxation, least of all in hon. Gentleman says, because I know that he has a deep the present circumstances? Will he assure me that the concern about trafficking, as do many Members of our Government will simply say no to the proposed EU House. Frankly, the fact that children and young adults directive for a common corporate tax base? are trafficked for sex and other purposes in our world is completely disgraceful, and we have to stamp it out. We The Prime Minister: I can certainly reassure my hon. have signed up to the directive, as he said, and we were Friend. Those in the EU who want to see further tax already complying with the terms of the directive. We harmonisation usually make one of two arguments: must do everything we can to stamp out this repulsive either they want to raise more money for the EU, which practice. I do not agree with, or they are trying to reduce tax competition within the EU, which I also do not agree Nuclear Deterrent with. It is important that we keep our competitive tax rates and do not give the EU further coverage over our Q7. [55959] Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): tax base. What recent discussions he has had with the Leader of the Opposition on the future of the nuclear deterrent. Q9. [55961] John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab): The ministerial code is extensive in its guidelines The Prime Minister: Although I have discussions on and rules governing Ministers. What is the policy of the many issues with the Leader of the Opposition, the Prime Minister and his Government on Ministers who nuclear deterrent has not recently been one of them. break the ministerial code? 339 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 340

The Prime Minister: Obviously, breaking the ministerial review the case and the paperwork. On the issue of code is an extremely serious offence. I know that the Dr David Kelly, I thought the results of the inquest that hon. Gentleman has asked questions before about the was carried out and the report into it were fairly clear, Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, and I do not think it is necessary to take that case my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell forward. (Chris Grayling), and let me be clear that the Employment Minister played no part in the decision-making process Q12. [55964] Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Is to award Work programme contracts. I want to make the Prime Minister aware that the most revealing that point clear to the hon. Gentleman, as he has asked statistic in recent days has been the fact that in me the question. recession-hit Britain, the billionaires have gone up by 20—an increase of 37%—in the first year of this Q10. [55962] Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Tory rule, while in the real world inflation is going Devonport) (Con): May I echo the tribute that my right through the roof and thousands of blind people are hon. Friend paid to Nigel Mead, the young Royal having to march through the streets of London to hang Marine who was serving with 3 Commando Brigade, on to their disability living allowance? What a savage which is based in my constituency? indictment of this lousy, rotten Tory Government, Given the recent inflation figures and the loose monetary propped up by these pathetic Liberals—[Interruption.] conditions that contributed to the causes of the credit crunch, should my right hon. Friend now lead a The Prime Minister: I can see that the hon. Gentleman fundamental debate reviewing the inflation target, and enjoyed that—[Interruption.] the operation and workings of the Monetary Policy Committee? Mr Speaker: Order. I want to hear the Prime Minister’s reply. The Prime Minister: The point that I would make to my hon. Friend is that one of the fundamental causes of The Prime Minister: I think that the most revealing the problems during the credit crunch was the poor statistics today are the unemployment figures, which regulation of our banking system and credit. We have show that employment in our country is up by 118,000, taken steps to put that right by putting the Bank of that unemployment is down by 36,000, and that youth England back at the pinnacle of that system, after the unemployment fell by 30,000. Those are the statistics of failure of the system put in place by the Labour party. what is happening in the real world, rather than in the On inflation, I strongly support monetary policy being dinosaur land that the hon. Member for Bolsover independent and established by the Bank of England. I (Mr Skinner) still inhabits. do not want to go back to the bad old days of the Treasury setting interest rates. I think it is better to have Q13. [55965] Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): Hard- that power vested in the Monetary Policy Committee of working families in Broxtowe want a cap on benefits, the Bank of England. but the Labour party will vote against such a cap. Would the Prime Minister help us in this way: who is Q11. [55963] Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): A living in the real world and who is representing real number of my constituents with very serious health families—us or them? conditions are being declared fit for work under the Department for Work and Pensions work capability The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right. assessment. Can the Prime Minister give me a We are proposing a cap of £26,000 on the benefits that a guarantee that the assessment will be fit for purpose by family can receive. People would have to earn something the time of the big move from incapacity benefit to like £40,000 to get that level of income. Frankly, some employment and support allowance, especially in the people will be watching this and thinking, “I’m earning light of cuts at the DWP? £15,000”—or £16,000, or £17,000—“Why am I paying my taxes to go to families that are getting more than The Prime Minister: Of course we want to get the £26,000 in benefits?”To answer my hon. Friend’s question, tests right, but I believe that the tests are showing that it the Government are in touch with what people want, has been wrong to leave so many people on benefits for and the Labour party seems to have gone to sleep. so long without proper assessment. Of course, we can always improve the processes, and we will ensure that Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab): What can we do that as we go along, but I think it is absolutely the Prime Minister say to the people of Sunderland, the right to go through people on all benefits and ask largest city in the north-east, and to my constituents, whether they can work, and what help they need to about the news that the Olympic torch is not stopping work. Then if they are offered work that they do not in the city? take, frankly, they should not go on getting benefits. The Prime Minister: I have to say that I was not aware Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): Now of that. Perhaps I can look into the route that the that there is to be a full investigation into the abduction Olympic torch will take—and if it is possible to divert it or murder of Madeleine McCann, is there not a much via Sunderland, I will certainly do my best. stronger case for a full investigation into the suicide or murder of Dr David Kelly? Q14. [55966] Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): An increasing number of European Court of Human The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is raising two Rights and European Court of Justice judgments are issues. First, on the issue of Madeleine McCann, it is deeply unpopular in our country, and intrude on what welcome that the Metropolitan police has decided to should be the preserve of member states. Will the 341 Oral Answers18 MAY 2011 Oral Answers 342

Prime Minister assure my constituents that he will use this—is to change the fact that 94% of rapists are every ounce of his considerable personal authority to walking the streets free because they have not been support efforts to push back those overbearing convicted. That is what we have got to change. institutions? Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): There are The Prime Minister: I agree with my hon. Friend. We currently 2,500 trade union representatives across the are leading the process of trying to reform the ECHR public sector paid not to provide the service that they so that it pays more attention to the decisions of national represent but to carry out campaigning activities that Parliaments and, crucially, national courts. As for the should be funded by the unions—and because the unions ECJ, one thing that we must do is stop the transfer of do not pay their salaries, they can spend their subs on further powers from Westminster to Brussels. That is other things, such as subsidising that lot over there. why we are putting in place the referendum lock. Does the Prime Minister not think it time that that was reformed? Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Does the Prime Minister think that the power and influence The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend raises an important of this House of Commons will be diminished or increased point. [HON.MEMBERS: “No he doesn’t!”] It is interesting by the reforms to the House of Lords that were announced that whenever someone raises a point about union yesterday? funding they get shouted down by the Labour party, because Labour Members do not want any examination The Prime Minister: I think that Parliament as a of what trade unions do, or how much money they give whole will be increased in terms of authority and respect. to the Labour party. [Interruption.] I think that they It is right to insert into the House of Lords some elected protest a little too much. peers, so that we recognise that in the modern world, it is right to have two Chambers that are predominantly Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): I am absolutely delighted elected. That is the policy of the Government. It is clear to be supported by the trade union movement. May I to me that there are massive divisions on both sides of ask the Prime Minister why he has not sacked his NHS the House about that policy.However, this is an opportunity adviser, Mark Britnell, who said that the NHS would be for the House of Commons to try to find a path shown “no mercy”, and that the reforms would be a through those, which we must do to achieve what was in “big opportunity” for private profit and would transform every manifesto: elections to the House of Lords. the NHS into an “insurance provider, not a state deliverer″? Q15. [55967] Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): An The Prime Minister: I am very grateful to the hon. independent investigation is due to report on Gentleman for allowing me to clear this up. When I allegations that Reading borough council, when last read about Mr Britnell being my adviser, I was slightly under Labour control, diverted section 106 moneys to puzzled, because I have never heard of this person in plug gaps in the general budget, and also to fund my life, and he is not my adviser. However, I did a little unrelated projects. Can the Prime Minister offer any research, and it turned out that he was an adviser to the advice on how residents can make use of the Localism previous Government. [HON.MEMBERS: “More!”] Oh, Bill to ensure that section 106 money is spent correctly? don’t worry, there is plenty more. He helped to develop Labour’s NHS plan in 2000, which increased the role of The Prime Minister: I would make two points to my the private sector, he was appointed by Labour as chief hon. Friend. First, the Localism Bill gives local people a executive of one of the 10 strategic health authorities greater ability to influence what happens to section 106 set up by Labour, and when the Leader of the Opposition money. Secondly, because of the new homes bonus, was in the Cabinet, Mark Britnell was director general councils that go ahead with building homes will get for NHS commissioning. Although I do not know him, more money, so they need not feel that they must go for therefore, I suspect that Labour Members know him one huge development in order to draw in the section rather well. 106 money. It could be that a different pattern of development—one more in tune with what local people Hon. Members: More! want—would deliver some of the benefits that local people want to see. MrAndrewTyrie(Chichester)(Con)rose—[Interruption.]

Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): May I return Mr Speaker: I cannot understand why the House the Prime Minister to his earlier remarks on rape? We does not wish to hear Mr Andrew Tyrie. all support moves to make the justice system easier for women, but many people out there—victims and non- Mr Tyrie: I was rather impressed by that last answer, victims alike—find his proposals to reduce sentences by but I will draw the Prime Minister on to something else. up to 50% abhorrent and frightening. The only responsible Yesterday the Government announced plans to reform thing for him to do is to take that out of any consultation the second Chamber. Can he tell the House whether he now. will use all means necessary, including the Parliament Acts, to protect the coalition’s legislative programme? The Prime Minister: The point is that what the hon. Lady says is not what we are proposing—[HON.MEMBERS: The Prime Minister: The short answer is yes. This is “Yes it is!”] Let me make this point as well: because this Government legislation, like any other piece of Government Government take the crime of rape so seriously, we legislation, and will be scrutinised, carried through, have boosted the funding for rape crisis centres. The debated and discussed, and then passed in the same real need—frankly, the whole House should unite on way. 343 18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Industry Safety 344

Nuclear Industry Safety Paul Flynn: The nightmare of Fukushima continues and intensifies. In the past seven days, the no-go area has been extended from 20 km to 30 km, and the 12.33 pm residents of the towns of Kawamata and Iitate have Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab) (Urgent Question): been expelled from their homes. There is now proof that To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate the greatly feared meltdown has taken place, and it is Change if he will make a statement on the implications out of control. This is all in the past seven days. It is not of the Weightman report. [Interruption.] possible in just eight weeks to make any assessment of the extent of this terrifying event, but that is what the Government have tried to do. This is not about science; Mr Speaker: The Energy and Climate Change Secretary this is about spin and PR. The whole reason for putting will answer the urgent question on behalf of the out the report so prematurely is to shore up collapsing Government. I appeal to right hon. and hon. Members public opinion and investor opinion. leaving the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, affording the Secretary of State the courtesy of a decent Of course Britain is not Japan, as the report says, but hearing. there have been tsunamis here too. There was one that affected my constituency, destroying all human and animal life, and that was on the Severn estuary, where The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change several nuclear power stations are placed. Our threat (Chris Huhne): Earlier today I laid before the House the comes from two possibilities: a terrorist attack, and chief nuclear inspector’s interim report on the events at especially an attack by air, or a unique climatic event. Japan’s Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear site in March. Sadly, unique climatic events are happening regularly Dr Weightman’s final report is due in September. Safety throughout the world and are more likely to happen in is, and will continue to be, our No. 1 priority, and I future because of the climate change that is afore us. believe that it is vital that the regulators and industry The residents of Three Mile Island, Chernobyl and continue to adhere to the principle of continuous Fukushima were all assured of the absolute safety of improvement for all existing and future nuclear sites the installations. What Weightman does is give false and facilities. Dr Weightman has drawn a number of reassurances for commercial reasons, to suit the conclusions. He states: Government’s programme. This report has been produced “The direct causes of the nuclear accident, a magnitude 9 in haste. We may regret at leisure shoring up this earthquake and the associated 14 metre high tsunami, are far unnecessary, subsidised form of energy creation, which beyond the most extreme…events that the UK would be expected the public, because of their well founded fears, might in to experience.” future prevent from being built. It is right that we In that respect, he concludes that there is should look again at the lessons of Fukushima. We do “no reason for curtailing the operation of nuclear power plants or not know what they are at the moment. We should other nuclear facilities in the UK.” pause and look to developing the safe renewables that Nevertheless, Dr Weightman notes: are inexhaustible, British and sustainable. “severe events can occur from other causes and learning from Chris Huhne: I respect the hon. Gentleman’s long- events is fundamental to…the robustness of” standing opposition to nuclear power and his concern, our nuclear safety arrangements. I can therefore confirm interest and expertise in these issues, but I think he has that once further work on the recommendations is gone too far in impugning the integrity of the chief completed, any proposed improvements to safety nuclear inspector. I am not a scientist, but I have had a arrangements will be considered and implemented in number of meetings with Dr Weightman, and I am line with our normal regulatory approach to nuclear absolutely convinced that he is an entirely independent, safety. well respected professional. Indeed, he is so well respected The interim report also identifies various matters that that after I asked him to conduct the inquiry and make should be reviewed to improve the safety of the UK his recommendations, he was subsequently approached nuclear industry. I consider it an absolute priority that by the International Atomic Energy Agency to lead the the regulators, industry and Government should act international inquiry into Fukushima. It beggars belief responsibly to learn from the 26 recommendations in not to recognise his standing in the international community today’s report and respond to them within one month. and his independence. This is a fact-based and evidence- My officials will review the interim report carefully, but based report. My concern has always been to base our from my discussions with Dr Weightman, I see no policy on the facts and the evidence, and I think that the reason why we should not proceed with our current report does that. policy—that nuclear can be part of the future energy The hon. Gentleman raised two specific points. He mix, as it is today— providing that there is no public will find that I entirely agree with him on extreme subsidy. The interim report does not identify any weather events. It is absolutely essential that all our implications for the strategic siting or assessment of critical energy infrastructure needs to be proof against new reactors, and I do not believe that the final report such events, not just the nuclear facilities. On page 97 of will either. Subject to careful consideration of the detail the report, he will find a useful table that summarises of Dr Weightman’s interim report, I intend to bring the extent to which our existing nuclear power stations forward the energy national policy statement for ratification are prepared against seismic hazards and flood heights. as soon as possible. I strongly welcome Dr Weightman’s The hon. Gentleman’s description of our vulnerability interim report. I encourage the regulators to work on this front simply does not accord with the facts as set closely with industry and other partners to take the out in Dr Weightman’s report. First and foremost, we recommendations forward, and I look forward to receiving do not have the same reactor design. Secondly, we are the final report in the autumn. not subject to earthquakes of anything like the same 345 Nuclear Industry Safety18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Industry Safety 346 magnitude. The earthquake that so unfortunately hit On the hon. Lady’s final point, I set out in October a Japan was 65,000 times stronger than the largest earthquake very clear statement about public subsidies. She has to ever recorded in British territorial areas, which was recognise that there is an enormous difference; money centred on Dogger Bank in 1931. The situation is such as that available under the European Union emissions therefore entirely different. The hon. Gentleman will trading scheme penalises activities that generate carbon also see a discussion in the report about the vulnerability and therefore implicitly subsidises activities that do not to tsunamis, and about whether the flood defence heights generate carbon, and is designed to correct what Lord set out for each of the power stations on page 97 are Stern has described as adequate, and the conclusions stand. “the greatest market failure of all time”. I entirely take the hon. Gentleman’s point about the On that basis, we will continue to have policies that importance of security against terrorist attack. This encourage low-carbon alternatives, but there will be no Government have been very careful to improve the support to nuclear; it is a mature industry and there is security arrangements in our nuclear facilities since we no justification for extra support. came into office a little over a year ago, and we will continue to do so. Several hon. Members rose—

Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ Mr Speaker: Order. There is considerable interest, Co-op): We, too, welcome the report. Safety in the but the House is under real time pressure today, with a nuclear industry is of paramount importance, and it is statement to follow before the remaining stages of an worth noting that the UK has a good safety record. I important Bill. Economy in questions and answers alike welcome Mike Weightman’s view that we need to be is of the essence. continually vigilant in that regard. Nuclear is clearly crucial to security of supply in a low-carbon economy, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): Having especially in the light of yesterday’s decision. What is discussed the Fukushima problems with the Japanese, I the Secretary of State now doing to ensure that the know that they have concluded that not only did the nuclear programme is still on track? When will we see reactor need to be built stronger to withstand the extreme new plant in this country? Will he be pressing ahead climatic conditions, but that the primary weakness was with the national policy statements over the summer, or that there was no secondary power source to circulate will he wait for the final report in the autumn? Will the the water to keep the nuclear core cool. However, if they lifespan of the existing nuclear stations be extended as can design out those problems, they are perfectly happy coal-fired power stations go off-line? Will he step up his in principle to build new nuclear power stations. Should efforts to boost renewable energy to fill the emerging we not take some lessons from those statements? energy gap? That is an area in which we have seen a lack of action from the Government. Finally, although the Chris Huhne: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. Secretary of State keeps denying the subsidy issue, to The lessons from Japan are extraordinary. First of all, hide his embarrassment, will he acknowledge the need the earthquake, however terrible and powerful, did not for market support to ensure that we have safe new damage the reactors. The damage came through the nuclear in this country as soon as possible? subsequent tsunami, which flooded the secondary cooling system and made it inoperable. It shifted away the diesel Chris Huhne: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her supplies for the back-up generating plant. That is precisely questions. Clearly, there has been a delay in the new why it is so important to look at these secondary nuclear programme preparations as a result of systems and ensure that they are proof against any Dr Weightman’s report, and I signalled that we needed extreme weather events in this country. to do that when I asked Dr Weightman to look at this matter. I am determined, as are the whole Government, Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): The to base our evidence on fact, rather than on emotional, Secretary of State referred to a raft of recommendations knee-jerk responses, which would be entirely inappropriate in the report, which he said the Government would given the importance of the issues. We will bring forward accept. I have not read the report, but does he have any the energy national policy statements as soon as we can, idea of the cost of those recommendations and who will and I would very much hope that we will be able to pay for them? catch up over the next few months and years following the delay. As I mentioned in the House yesterday, we Chris Huhne: It is too early to assess the likely cost. I have already begun work at Hinckley Point, where EDF merely point out that, as far as any new nuclear programme is preparing the earthworks for the first of the new is concerned, we are still at the stage where negotiations nuclear reactors. I am keen to deliver on the commitment are going on between the regulators and the companies in the coalition Government programme that new nuclear interested in providing new reactors, making it possible should, subject to the proviso that there is no public to incorporate into the design stage any changes that subsidy, have a place in our energy mix. flow from Dr Weightman’s recommendations. That means I am not going to take any lectures on renewable that it will be substantially cheaper than it would have energy from the hon. Lady. Our inheritance was to be been if we were attempting to retrofit. 25th out of 27 European Union member states for installed renewable capacity. We are in the dunce’s corner Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): I congratulate the as a result of 13 years of Labour policy, so the best hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) on drawing commitment I can make is to say that over the next few the attention of the House to this report. On the alleged years we are absolutely determined to be the fastest prematurity of drawing early conclusions from the improving pupil in the class. Weightman report, will the Secretary of State reassure 347 Nuclear Industry Safety18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Industry Safety 348 the House that he will keep this matter under review, Chris Huhne: The hon. Gentleman has considerable given that, as the hon. Gentleman has said, this is very expertise in this area. As a humble economist, I shall be much a changing scenario in the Fukushima area? happy to take away his questions and correspond with him on the answers. Chris Huhne: There may well be longer-term implications. The key conclusions of the interim report relate to the Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): What happened potential choice of sites, for example, and therefore the in Japan was clearly a disaster, but we should be considering implications for national policy statements and the new both the design and the siting of new nuclear reactors. nuclear programme. We now need to look at any Has my right hon. Friend had a chance to assess whether implications for the generic design assessments and the the report will have any implications for the siting of the design of new nuclear reactors. There may also be proposed new nuclear power stations? longer-term implications for civil contingencies, as Dr Weightman points out. We will very much keep Chris Huhne: Dr Weightman makes clear in the report those matters under review. that he believes it will not. Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): Will Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Once the Secretary of State be considering the implications of again, the Secretary of State has claimed that new the additional expense of new nuclear building as a nuclear will not receive a public subsidy. However, in its consequence of the Weightman recommendations? Will report on electricity market reform, the Select Committee he also be considering the present target of bringing on Energy and Climate Change says that the Government’s one new nuclear power station on stream every nine proposals are designed to give nuclear a substantial months between 2018 and 2025 in the light of those subsidy. Can the Secretary of State explain why there is additional costs? How fundable does he expect the such a difference of view between him and the Select programme to be? Committee? Chris Huhne: As I said in my response to the question asked by the right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford Chris Huhne: The hon. Lady will be aware, even after (Joan Ruddock), the cost impact may well be limited by only a year in the House, that it is not the first time— the fact that the programme is at the design stage. I can [Interruption.] I was a colleague of the hon. Lady in the also tell the hon. Gentleman that the Government do European Parliament for six years, and I have enormous not propose to subsidise nuclear reactors or to invest respect for her. However, she will know from her experience public money in them. The funding will be up to private both in the European Parliament and here that it is not investors, who have shown no lack of desire to finance a entirely unknown for Ministers and Select Committees new nuclear programme. to reach different views on these issues. The key point is that there is a huge difference between offsetting the Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): Every market failure—which, as Lord Stern pointed out, has time I go home to my village of Westleton, I see the been white dome of Sizewell B. My local energy company is “the greatest market failure of all time” very concerned about safety, and is not at all complacent. —and subsidies directed at a particular way of doing I am sure that it will welcome the additional review. that. On the matter of nuclear industry safety, the newly formed Office for Nuclear Regulation is part of the Health and Safety Executive, which reports to my right Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): I welcome what hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. the Secretary of State said today. The British nuclear Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would make industry adheres to the highest standards of safety and sense to transfer responsibility for the ONR to his own excellence in engineering. To underline that, may I Department, so that all nuclear matters can be—so to invite the Secretary of State, or a member of his team, speak—under one roof? to visit Graham Engineering in Colne, which manufactures nuclear waste drums, next time he is in Lancashire? Chris Huhne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her question and, in particular, for the benefit of her scientific Chris Huhne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his background. The first read-out of our nuclear regulatory kind invitation. We will certainly consider it, and we system produced very good results in comparison with hope to see him in due course. those in other countries, and we were recently given a clean bill of health by the IAEA inspection team. The system is very independent: for example, in the event of Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): I welcome the a hazard, our regulators are able to shut down the interim report. It would appear from the flooding risk facility immediately with no political sign-off. We have assessments in conclusion 6 and annexe G that agreed that the Office for Nuclear Regulation will be set Dr Weightman may not have taken account of recent up statutorily as an independent body, which is entirely research at Delft university on eustatic sea level drop. I appropriate. urge the Secretary of State to investigate that. As for the conclusion on MOX—mixed oxide—can he tell us exactly Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): Will the Secretary how the plutonium fallout relates to the testing of of State acknowledge and respect the fact that planning nuclear weapons? I believe that after the second world consent on nuclear issues is devolved, and that under war Japan agreed not to undertake any nuclear weapons the newly re-elected Scottish National party Government, testing. there will be no new nuclear power stations in Scotland? 349 Nuclear Industry Safety18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Industry Safety 350

Chris Huhne: Yes. Chris Huhne: There is an enormous difference between our vulnerability to seismic shocks and, sadly, that of Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): In parallel the Japanese. That is a matter of record. There is a good with the Weightman report, the Council of the European discussion of the matter in Dr Weightman’s report, and Union has requested that national regulators carry out I urge my hon. Friend to look at it. stress tests on nuclear power stations. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on the development of Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I am not opposed those tests, and on when the results are likely to be to the nuclear industry at all, but has the Secretary of reported? State or his Department been able to ascertain details of the deaths that have taken place recently? It has been Chris Huhne: The Minister of State, Department of indicated that there have been many deaths, but it has Energy and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member not been made clear whether the people who lived for Wealden (Charles Hendry), discussed the stress tests nearby were involved in repairs to nuclear reactors. This recently at an informal EU Energy Council meeting in is not a case of dwelling on tragedy; it is a case of the Hungary, and during bilateral meetings with Commissioner lessons that we can learn. Can we learn any lessons Günther Oettinger. Good progress is being made in from the Japanese authorities about how we can improve defining the tests, and I believe that we will be in a the safety of people who live close to nuclear reactors? position to make an announcement shortly. Chris Huhne: It is far too early to reach conclusions John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): However in relation to the Fukushima accident, but there have much the Secretary of State tries to dress it up, is it not been estimates on the basis of past accidents. A comparison the case that the new carbon floor price represents a of the casualty rates of different generating technologies massive subsidy to the nuclear industry, possibly to the appeared recently in the New Scientist. We are acutely tune of £2 billion? Is that not why the nuclear industry aware of the issue, but, sadly, casualties and deaths are has been lobbying for it? associated with almost all energy sources.

Chris Huhne: I return to the point that I made in Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): The Secretary of State answer to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion may accept that some of us find the inspector’s answers (Caroline Lucas). As Lord Stern said, we have experienced to the essential safety questions as predictable as those the greatest market failure of all time. We will only be of Churchill the dog. As for the question of public able to provide the incentives that will lead all of us, in subsidy, is he telling us that any additional infrastructural the private and public sectors, to change our behaviour protections that arise as a result of the report will be if we offset that market failure by incorporating the funded not from the public purse but by the nuclear costs. What there will not be is any subsidy for the industry, and that the carbon floor price will not be nuclear industry. adjusted in the light of those additional costs to provide additional subsidy? Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I am sure my right hon. Friend will confirm that a magnitude 9 Chris Huhne: The considerations that are taken into earthquake hit western Europe in its not too recent account in setting the carbon price support—and, indeed, history, and that the consequent tsunami crossed territorial all our other measures—are related to our need to maritime boundaries and hit the United Kingdom. mitigate carbon emissions and have nothing to do with Given evacuation and compensation bills running into the costs of any particular technology. In that sense, we tens of billions of pounds, and sea contamination at are technology-neutral; we want the lowest possible 18,000 times the safe limit, is not the real lesson of cost response in making sure we have a low-carbon Fukushima that in the event of an unpredictable catastrophe economy. Whether that points to alternative technologies of any kind, nuclear is the worst possible power source to nuclear will be a decision for the market, not the to be in its path? Government. 351 18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Deterrent 352

Nuclear Deterrent the case for alternatives. As Secretary of State for Defence, I am absolutely clear that a minimum nuclear 1pm deterrent based on the Trident missile delivery system and continuous at-sea deterrence is right for the United The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox): Kingdom and that it should be maintained, and that With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to make a remains Government policy; but to assist the Liberal statement on our nuclear deterrent programme. Democrats in making the case for alternatives, I am also The House will be aware that we have been considering announcing today the initiation of a study to review the the next stage of investment—called initial gate—in the costs, feasibility and credibility of alternative systems programme to deliver a successor to our current nuclear and postures. The study will be led by Cabinet Office deterrent. This is the point in the Ministry of Defence’s officials overseen by the Minister for the Armed Forces. procurement cycle at which we decide on broad design A copy of the terms of reference of the study will be parameters, set out our plans for detailed system assessment placed in the House of Commons Library. and order any long lead items that might be required. Taking this action enables us to be sure that we will As I have said, the Government have approved the make the right decisions at the key investment stage, at initial gate for the nuclear deterrent successor programme. the main gate, which for this submarine programme will We have now agreed the broad outline design of the be in 2016. I am announcing today that we have approved submarine, made some of the design choices—including the initial gate investment and selected a submarine the propulsion system and the common US-UK missile design that will be powered by a new generation of compartment—and the programme of work we need to nuclear propulsion system—the pressurised water reactor start building the first submarine after 2016. We have 3—that will allow our submarines to deliver our nuclear also agreed the amount of material and parts we will deterrent capability well into the 2060s if required. need to buy in advance of the main investment decision. At this milestone in the project, I think it is useful for We expect the next phase of work to cost in the me to remind the House of this Government’s policy on region of £3 billion. That is a significant sum, but I am the nuclear deterrent. The first duty of any Government confident that it represents value for money for the is to ensure the security of their people. The nuclear taxpayer, as every aspect of the programme has been deterrent provides the ultimate guarantee of our national carefully reviewed by MOD, Treasury and Cabinet Office security, and for the past 42 years the Royal Navy has officials. It will fund the programme that we need to successfully operated continuous deterrent patrols to conduct to make sure that we can bring the submarines ensure just that. I pay tribute to the crews and support into service on time. Overall, we assess that the submarine staff who ensure the continued success of deterrent element of the programme will still cost within the operations, and I extend that tribute to the families of £11 billion to £14 billion estimate set out in the 2006 all those personnel, many of whom are regularly away White Paper, but these costs were estimated at 2006 from home for long periods. prices, of course, and did not account for inflation. The equivalent sum today is £20 billion to £25 billion at We assess that no state currently has both the intent out-turn, but it is important to recognise that there has and the capability to threaten the independence or been no cost growth in the programme since the House integrity of the United Kingdom, but we cannot dismiss first considered the findings of the White Paper. the possibility that a major direct nuclear threat to the UK might re-emerge. We simply do not know how the Between now and main gate we expect to spend about international environment will change in the next few 15% of the total value of the programme. That is years, let alone the next 50 years; and as this House entirely consistent with defence procurement guidance. concluded in 2007 when it voted on whether the UK The cost of long lead items is expected to amount to should start a programme to renew the deterrent, the about £500 million, but it is not true to say that large time is simply not right to do away with it unilaterally. parts of the build programme will have been completed That is not to say that if the time is right we will not by main gate. Although we are ordering some of the move away from nuclear weapons at some time in the specialist components, that does not mean that we future. Our long-term goal remains a world without are locked into any particular strategy before main gate them, and we are doing all we can to counter proliferation, in 2016. to make progress on multilateral disarmament, and to I would like to focus for a moment on the matter of build trust and confidence with nations across the globe. nuclear safety. There has been some ill-informed comment In this spirit, as part of the value-for-money study we suggesting that our nuclear propulsion systems are not reviewed carefully how we manage our deterrent safe. That is simply not true. All our nuclear propulsion programme, and concluded that we could take significant plants meet the stringent safety standards set out by the steps to demonstrate our commitment to disarmament: defence nuclear safety regulator and the Health and by reducing the number of warheads carried on each Safety Executive. However, we are developing a new deterrent submarine from no more than 48 to no more design of submarine, and it is right that we take advantage than 40; by consequently reducing our overall stockpile of the opportunity that that affords to advance our of nuclear weapons from no more than 225 to no more policy of seeking continual improvement of nuclear than 180 in due course; and by giving a stronger assurance safety. A new propulsion plant allows us to do that to non-nuclear weapon states in compliance with the while also giving us the opportunity to improve the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. The value-for-money availability of propulsion systems and lower through-life study delivered £3 billion of savings and deferrals over support costs. the next 10 years. I have announced a major step forward in this The coalition agreement reflected both coalition parties’ programme. We have some of the finest submarine commitment to a minimum credible nuclear deterrent, builders in the world, and the approval of the next but also the desire of the Liberal Democrats to make phase of work in the programme will secure the jobs of 353 Nuclear Deterrent18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Deterrent 354

[Dr Liam Fox] remain committed to the NPT and to be an active disarmer, alongside our allies and other nuclear weapons the highly skilled and professional work force already states. Maintaining our independent deterrent as part involved in it, as well as providing further opportunities of international non-proliferation efforts is therefore for the engineers and apprentices of the future. However, vital in enabling us to combat the threats we face at both my Department and industry will have much to do home, and to sustain regional and global security. to deliver this programme and to ensure both that we I now wish to deal with some specific questions about continue to maintain the sustainability of the submarine the review announced today. In 2007, Parliament took industry and that we improve performance and drive the view that it would support the position set out by costs down through more efficient and inclusive working. the previous Government in the 2006 White Paper of I am confident that all sides will respond to this challenge. replacing the current Vanguard class submarines and This is a programme of great national importance, so maintaining an independent, continuous at-sea submarine- today I am placing in the Library of the House a report based nuclear deterrent. The decision then was based that sets out in detail the work that has been completed on evidence and military advice. The Government have so far, the key decisions that I have presented to the announced today that as we move towards main gate House today, and the work that is required over the there is logic in looking again at some of the defence coming months and years. I believe that the decisions capability and financial issues relating to how best to we have taken on our nuclear deterrent programme at maintain a credible, minimum, independent nuclear initial gate are the right decisions for the country and deterrent. It is important that this is an open process. that, as a result, future generations will continue to What is crucial is that the process is evidence-based and benefit from the security we have been so fortunate to in the interests of national security, and that it is not, on enjoy. occasion, driven by the dynamic within the coalition parties. Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab): I thank I wish to ask the Secretary of State some specific the Secretary of State both for his statement and for questions. Will the review look at the Government’s providing advance sight of it. I join him in paying procurement policy in this Parliament for materials for tribute to all our forces operating our deterrent and successor submarines? Will the review look at international their families, and to our skilled civilian work force who co-operation over nuclear policy, including deeper help to build and maintain our defence capabilities. Let co-operation with France above and beyond the agreements me also stress once again that where the Government made in the UK-France defence co-operation treaty, do the right thing on defence policy, we will, in the which we welcomed? Finally, on the review, can he national interest, support them. confirm that the Minister for the Armed Forces is a Britain’s independent deterrent has been the cornerstone one-man ministerial review team? of our peace and security for over half a century, and It was announced in the SDSR that initial gate was our view is that, in today’s world, as long as there are due to take place by the end of 2010. Can the Secretary other countries with such capability it is right that the of State tell us the reason for the delay and how much it UK retains an independent nuclear deterrent. In what will add to the cost of the programme over its lifetime? will be a detailed debate on the military, technical and He said there were £500 million of costs for long lead financial aspects of today’s announcement, there is a items. Can he say what these items are? Can he say what careful judgment to be made: whether we believe the the total cost of the replacement programme will be, threats posed to our nation and our interests to be such and over what period? He made some comments about that we are more secure with the UK having our own that, but can he also say from which budgets the overall independent deterrent. Most of us believe in a world costs will be met? Can he say whether both the running free of nuclear weapons and a multilateral process to and construction costs will come from the core defence achieve that, whereas others take a different and unilateralist budget, and whether he has any estimate on the impact view, born of a myriad of traditions such as faith, that may have on other equipment programmes? passivism, political commitment or concerns about costs. The SDSR stated that the Government would reduce I respect all those views but take a different approach. the costs of the successor programme by a total of The previous Government met their commitment in £3.2 billion over the next 10 years. Can the Secretary of the December 2006 White Paper to reduce the number State say whether that takes into account the £1.2 billion of operationally available warheads to fewer than 160, to £1.4 billion additional costs of extending the life of meaning that the UK has reduced its nuclear arsenal by the Vanguard class submarines in service until 2028? 75% since the end of the cold war. We welcome this What reassurances has he been given that extending the Government’s announcements in the strategic defence life of the Vanguard class submarines is indeed safe? and security review to reduce the number of operationally Can he make it clear how much is being spent on the available warheads and the overall weapons stockpile. new PWR3 reactors, and over what period? We will continue strongly to advocate the nuclear non- In conclusion, Labour remains committed to a minimum, proliferation treaty. Its three pillars—non-proliferation, credible, independent nuclear deterrent, and we welcome disarmament and the right to use civil nuclear power the announcements made today by the Government. peacefully—provide the framework around which we This decision will have an impact on our nation and should base our policy. beyond for decades to come, and it is crucial that The greatest nuclear threats we face today come from government finds additional ways to involve Parliament proliferation and unilateral armament, specifically from in the decision-making process. Labour will always do North Korea, which we know has a nuclear capability, what is right for the UK’s defence and national interests, and Iran, which we know has nuclear ambitions. The and the country would expect the Government to continue most robust response to those threats is for the UK to to do the same. 355 Nuclear Deterrent18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Deterrent 356

Dr Fox: I shall do my best to answer the long list of Dr Fox: I have always thought that our independence questions that the right hon. Gentleman asked. I shall of mind was why we were sent to the House of Commons check Hansard, and if I have missed any I shall write to in the first place, but perhaps I was mistaken. Because him with further details. of the nature of the content of the report, most of it May I thank the right hon. Gentleman for the will remain unpublished, but I will consider whether its Opposition’s support for the principle of this policy? conclusions might be published without in any way Cross-party support adds greatly to the credibility of prejudicing the security of the project itself. As I have our deterrence policy, which is an essential part of the just outlined, the Government are committed to the protection of our country. He rightly says that the replacement of the Trident system, and the spend will major proliferation risk at the moment comes from go ahead through the rest of this Parliament. North Korea and Iran. We do not know whether other Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab): On countries will join in that so, as he says, it is entirely costs, does the Secretary of State accept that since the prudent to retain a minimum, independent, credible election two things, effectively, have gone on? Savings nuclear deterrent for the United Kingdom. have been made as a result of the joint missile compartment The right hon. Gentleman asked a number of specific and the reduction in the number of war heads, but those questions about costs. The costs of the various items savings have been completely wiped out by the political were set out in the 2006 White Paper, when they were decision demanded by the Liberal Democrats to extend broadly split into: £11 billion to £14 billion for the the procurement period beyond the next election. I submarine; £2 billion to £3 billion for the warhead; and would have thought that those political decisions have £2 billion to £3 billion for infrastructure. We believe led to costs approaching £2.5 billion, if one takes into that those costs are still contained in the programme account the necessity to build an additional Astute class itself. He asked specifically about long lead items, on submarine just to keep Barrow going. One might think which, as I said in my statement, approximately £500 million that in the circumstances faced by the Secretary of State will be spent. They include: the specialised high-grade this might not have been his priority, what with all the steel; the main boat systems, such as the computer other cuts he was making and the additional maintenance systems, hydraulic systems and atmospheric systems, round that will now be needed for the existing fleet. the generators and the communications systems; and How much more additional cost will there be as a result specialist components, including steam generators and of the separate review? In a Department in which we are test rigs for the propulsion plants. bearing down on manpower and reducing the skills On our wider international co-operation, we continue available, we are now applying the skill base to an to work, as we set out in our treaty with France, on the ongoing, second round assessment and review. capabilities required constantly to maintain the safety of our warheads. There are no plans for collaboration Dr Fox: The costs of the alternatives review are met on deployment of a deterrent that goes beyond the from existing departmental budgets and no additional treaty that has been signed. Agreement with the United costs will be associated with it. As I have said, when we States on the major parameters of the jointly developed take into account the different developments, including common missile compartment design, which will be the fact that we have taken costs out of the missile capable of carrying the Trident D5 missiles and any compartment, as the right hon. Gentleman correctly replacement once the D5 reaches the end of its life in says, and have reassessed the infrastructure required, we the 2040s, has been a major part of our cost containment believe that there has been no additional net cost to the during the process. programme on the 2006 prices. The right hon. Gentleman asked about the overall Mr James Arbuthnot (North East Hampshire) (Con): costs of the programme. As I said, £3 billion of those Whatever my right hon. Friend’s openness of mind, will fall between now and 2016. The costs for the years does he personally agree that the real choice is between that fall within the current comprehensive spending a ballistic system and no nuclear deterrent at all? Although review are met by the current defence budget settlement. there are perfectly respectable arguments for both He asked about the life and costs of the Vanguard class propositions, the idea of having a vulnerable cruise-based submarines. Our assessment when we undertook the system misses the point of nuclear deterrence altogether. value-for-money study was that we could extend Vanguard’s life to 2028 without having huge additional maintenance Dr Fox: I have made it clear on a number of occasions and upgrade costs, and while preserving our continuous why I believe that having a ballistic, submarine-based at-sea deterrent—CASD. To go beyond 2028 would system providing continuous at-sea deterrence is the almost certainly have huge cost implications and may only way to guarantee the level of deterrence that this have implications for CASD that we are not willing to country has come to regard as the minimum credible undertake. Those were the reasons we took the overall level. A number of disadvantages relate to any cruise decision, and I hope that I have answered the right hon. system, including the fact that the missiles are more Gentleman’s specific questions. vulnerable to anti-missile defences, that they are slower and that there are cost implications because we would Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): My require more of them and more platforms from which right hon. Friend is well known for his independence to launch them. I am very relaxed about any consideration and openness of mind, as was shown by his recently of the alternatives because I believe that anyone who published correspondence with the Prime Minister. May has looked at the criteria and the information behind we take it that the conclusions of the study to which he the 2006 White Paper will rapidly come to the conclusion has referred will be published? Given that independence that if we want a minimum credible nuclear deterrent of mind, may we also take it that if the study produces for the United Kingdom, this system, which will be credible procurement and policy alternatives, he will provided by the replacement Trident system, is the best take proper account of them? and in fact the only credible one. 357 Nuclear Deterrent18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Deterrent 358

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): This is a very actions, I believe that people have the right to understand depressing statement today. First, the Secretary of State whether this weapons system can be used. What are the gave us no indication of the long-term total costs of the circumstances in which Trident would be used? Will the system—he said only that £5 billion would be committed Secretary of State tell the House? now. Will it cost £70 billon in total, or more? We should be told. Secondly, 184 countries manage without their Dr Fox: This has always been at the heart of the own nuclear weapons, and most countries see no need deterrent argument. The whole point is that there is whatsoever even to think about getting them. We are uncertainty about the circumstances in which the United spending a vast amount of money on a status symbol Kingdom would respond, and the system therefore acts that will make the world not a safer place but a more as a proper deterrent. We would hope that such weapons dangerous one. The Secretary of State’s arguments about would never have to be used because they would deter deterrence are nonsense because those arguments could any threat against us. That is the principle and the core be used for any country in the world. Most choose to of the issue and it is something that the unilateralists take active steps to bring about a nuclear-free world; never understood. this country should do the same. Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): Without, Dr Fox: I appreciate the sincerity of the hon. Gentleman’s obviously, asking the Secretary of State to go into any views; I just profoundly disagree with them. As I have sort of detail, will he make absolutely certain that the said, we assess that the costs have not changed from the phasing out of Nimrod will not make our submarines 2006 basic programme. I also said that, taking inflation more vulnerable to counter-attack? into account, we expect them to be some £20 billion to £25 billion at out-turn. The hon. Gentleman is quite Dr Fox: We have a number of ways of ensuring the wrong: there is a growing nuclear threat in the world protection of our deterrent and, as my hon. Friend says, from such countries as North Korea and Iran. Who he would not expect me to go into it. As for the Nimrod knows what other countries might be trying to develop MRA4 programme, to which he might be referring, I nuclear technology and weaponisation? Those countries must remind him that that capability was not available pose a wider risk and our nuclear deterrence is not just to us because the programme was already nine years the UK’s independent deterrent but part of the wider late and the aircraft had not flown other than in one test NATO nuclear umbrella. It is important that the reductions that was abandoned for safety reasons. I am afraid that that have been announced as regards warheads and the failure of procurement over a number of years stockpiles are not only within the letter but within the made that capability unavailable today. spirit of the NPT and set a clear direction for future Government policy. Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): I thank the Secretary Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): I am really of State for advance notice of his statement. He is well rather worried that my right hon. Friend is in danger of aware that majority opinion in Scotland is opposed to inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on the Minister Trident, yet the UK Government are planning to spend for the Armed Forces, who is really quite a decent chap. billions of pounds of Scottish taxpayers’ money on it. If the Secretary of State, like me, had had the experience Scotland’s Churches, the Scottish Trades Union Congress of watching the hon. Gentleman address the Liberal and Scottish civic society are also opposed to Trident, Democrat conference on this subject, he would have but the MOD wants to base these weapons of mass seen that it was indistinguishable from a CND revivalist destruction in Scotland while cutting conventional defence. meeting. How is it fair to the Minister for the Armed Scotland’s parliamentarians have not voted for this. Forces to confront him on the one hand with serious What kind of respect agenda is this from the London arguments about why Trident is the only option while Government, who totally ignore Scottish opinion and on the other hand requiring him to go back to the go ahead anyway? The Secretary of State is making the Liberal Democrats and tell them that unavoidable most eloquent case for Scottish independence. conclusion? Dr Fox: It would be hard to make a less eloquent case Dr Fox: I rather fear that my hon. Friend is a little too for Scottish independence! It is important that we recognise late. Having made my hon. Friend the Minister for the that defence was retained in the UK Parliament in the Armed Forces sit through some 57 hours of the strategic devolution settlement and that decisions about national defence and security review, I feel I have already inflicted security are taken by this House of Commons. Given a cruel and unusual punishment on him. I refer my hon. the attitudes of the Scottish National party, the whole Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) of the United Kingdom should be grateful. back to the advice he gave me when we were in opposition, which was that we should never be afraid to have the Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): It is of most rigorous look at alternative systems. When one course always open for any political party or any part of considers the evidence, the costings and the threats, one any political party to take a different view from Her inevitably comes to the conclusion that a submarine-based Majesty’s Government. Can the Secretary of State think continuous at-sea deterrent based on the Trident system of any precedent whatsoever for public money, ministerial will be the best protection for the United Kingdom. I time and resources being used to bolster and examine take him at his word and I am not at all afraid to the manifesto commitment of one particular party that consider the alternatives. might or might not be part of the coalition?

Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): Given Dr Fox: There are realities of coalition government the phenomenal cost of this weapons system and given that simply have to be faced. As part of the coalition that we will commit future generations to it by these agreement, we made it very clear that we would continue 359 Nuclear Deterrent18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Deterrent 360 and move to the decisions I have announced today, but How big that credible deterrent is will obviously be we also made it clear that the Liberal Democrats, as one reviewed as a matter of policy, but as long as it is of the coalition partners, would be free to make the case required and as long as this Government are in office we for alternatives. We have lived up to that commitment will retain it. today. James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): The Secretary of State said that it is difficult for us to The Secretary of State knows that approval of initial predict events that will happen in the future, but what gate is overdue and it is good that more work can finally we do know is that we have instability in Pakistan and a go ahead, but let me be clear: he has placed yet another nuclear-ambitious Iran and that North Korea is developing review on the future of the deterrent in the hands of a further nuclear capability. Does he agree that it would Minister from the Liberal Democrats—a party that is be strategically naive for the UK Government to make predisposed to rejecting the only option that makes any any decisions that would prevent us from being able to sense. How can the Secretary of State give us confidence deter threats and emerging threats in the world in that he will prevent his colleagues, from the Prime future? Minister down, from playing politics on this issue and that he will back Barrow so that it can deliver for the Dr Fox: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I nation? wonder how many in the House predicted the Arab spring or what was going to happen in Libya. We have Dr Fox: What I am making clear today is that for the little ability to predict what is happening in the strategic rest of this Parliament we will be going ahead with the security environment and as long as the threat remains replacement programme. We are setting out the budget, there and, in particular, as long as nuclear proliferation the areas of policy and the industrial implications for continues in states such as North Korea and Iran, the doing so. As I have said, it is part of the coalition Government simply will not gamble with the future agreement that the Liberal Democrats are able to look security of generations of British people. at these alternatives. Having looked, as Secretary of State since we came to office, at all the alternatives in Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): May I press the great detail, including the costs and the implications for Secretary of State on his decision to introduce a study defence, I remain absolutely confident that the study is to assist the Liberal Democrats in making the case for very likely to come to exactly the same conclusion as the alternatives? What will really be the extra cost of this 2006 White Paper, but we have given a commitment and new study? we are carrying that out, through Cabinet Office officials, Dr Fox: I repeat the answer I have already given to for our Liberal Democrat partners in the coalition. We this question. I have already said that the costs are made an agreement and we are going to honour it. contained within departmental budgets. The study will be led by Cabinet Office officials, there is more than Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): Does my right hon. sufficient expertise on this subject, believe me, inside the Friend agree that the independent nuclear deterrent is Ministry of Defence, and ministerial oversight will be being used all the time because it is, by definition, a provided by my hon. Friend the Minister for the Armed deterrent to potential enemies? The firing of the weapon Forces. would be a disaster of course, but the point of its possession is to prevent that. Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): May I first welcome the statement by the Secretary of Dr Fox: I cannot fault my hon. Friend’s logic. He State? Does he agree that the United Kingdom’s capability understands the whole basis of the concept of deterrence. as a nuclear-armed state helps it to have a seat on the Of course, the deterrent is designed to protect the international top table and helps with global policy? United Kingdom from the threat of nuclear blackmail, but we still have to work hard to prevent the proliferation Dr Fox: I do not think that having a nuclear deterrent of nuclear weapons in other parts of the world as a does anything to diminish the status of the United complementary, not an alternative, policy. Kingdom but our ability to influence world events is a combination of a range of things including military Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): The Secretary power, economic power and diplomatic power, all of of State said in a small phrase in his statement that “if which we exercise in the furtherance of our national the time is right”, we could move away from nuclear interests. weapons. Given the strategic arms agreement between the United States and Russia and the successful outcome Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): of the non-proliferation review conference last year, The Secretary of State has demonstrated that he is a neither of which he has mentioned, when does he think principled and honourable man. Does he therefore the time will be right to put British nuclear weapons understand the concern on both sides of the House, and into international disarmament multilateral negotiations? indeed in the country, that given the decision not to have carrier capability for more than a decade, as the Dr Fox: In making reductions that go further than First Sea Lord confirmed last week to the Select Committee necessary we are, as I have already said, not only within on Defence, we could, for financial reasons, have no the letter of the NPT but well within the spirit of it. The continuous deterrent at sea because the decision will be reductions that we have made in going ahead with this postponed for so long that it becomes financially unviable? programme show that we are committed to seeing lower levels of nuclear weapons worldwide. As long as the Dr Fox: I am not entirely sure that I grasped the threat to the United Kingdom remains, it is prudent for essence of the hon. Gentleman’s question. We will have us to maintain a minimum credible nuclear deterrent. continuous at-sea deterrence because this programme 361 Nuclear Deterrent18 MAY 2011 Nuclear Deterrent 362

[Dr Fox] jumps the gun in determining what his party’s position will be at the next election before the study on alternatives will seamlessly move into the replacement programme has been carried out. in 2028. The whole point is that we have continuous at-sea deterrence to give us a credible deterrent for the Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- country. op): Does the Secretary of State understand that many people will find it shocking that we are talking about Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Does my right hon. value for money in the context of weapons of mass Friend accept that the main plank of deterrence is destruction, for which no moral case can be made? May mutually assured destruction but that for MAD to I press him further on the point made earlier in relation work one has to be sane and the countries that want to to deterrence? Surely if something is to act as a deterrent, acquire nuclear weapons today are very different from there must be a reasonable assumption that at some the countries that have them and had them in the cold stage it may be used. What are the circumstances in war? Does he agree that the Government, NATO and which the Secretary of State would sanction the use of other western nations should revisit the strategic defence nuclear weapons? If he cannot give a straight answer to initiative so that we have the ability to destroy nuclear that, is it not time for the UK to move towards disarming weapons if they are unleashed from such regimes? and not to replace Trident?

Dr Fox: The point of our nuclear deterrent is to deter Dr Fox: I have never accepted the arrogant attitude a nuclear threat to the United Kingdom from wherever that there is no moral case for a deterrent. I can appreciate that threat occurs. I make the point again that it is not a that there are arguments for and against, but the argument choice between having a nuclear deterrent and having a that only one side has any moral legitimacy I have stronger non-proliferation policy—we need both if we always found rather repugnant. We believe that protecting are to have a safer Britain and a safer global environment. the 60 million people of the United Kingdom from the threat of nuclear blackmail from wherever that threat Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): The may come is not only morally justifiable, but is the duty Secretary of State rightly says that the “first duty of any of the Government. Government is to ensure the security of their people”. Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) If it really is the case, as he also says, that the “nuclear (Con): I, too, welcome the statement from my right deterrent provides the ultimate guarantee of our national hon. Friend and his full commitment to future investment security”, does he accept the logic of his own argument, in our nuclear deterrent. What assurances can he give which means that all nations should seek to acquire me that that investment will be spread as widely as nuclear weapons to ensure the security of their people possible across the UK to make sure that companies in and does he look forward to a world in which every my constituency, South Basildon and East Thurrock, nation is nuclear-armed? have an opportunity to benefit from this announcement?

Dr Fox: I look forward to a world in which the Dr Fox: We will spread the costs wherever we are nuclear threat is being reduced, and we are reducing our achieving our objective industrially, which is sustainability, nuclear stockpile as part of taking that process forward. secured by getting the costs down and the performance I hope that we will see a time when fewer countries will up. I am sure that if my hon. Friend has any specific want to enter into nuclear proliferation. We have an examples of companies that would like to bid for the international non-proliferation treaty for exactly that work, the Ministry of Defence will be only too happy to purpose and the status of the United Kingdom and listen. other countries was recognised in that treaty when it was drawn up. In putting forward the proposals we Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): The believe not only that we are providing a safe future for Secretary of State seems to believe that simply by the United Kingdom by maintaining our deterrent but reducing the number of weapons, he is complying with that in reducing the number of warheads we have, we the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Does he accept are setting our direction very clearly towards a world in that we need to do far more in that regard if we are to which we hope to see the elimination, over time, of this have any influence in Iran, North Korea and all the wider threat from weapons of mass destruction. other states that we do not know about, which are developing nuclear weapons? Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I welcome the study of alternatives. It would be a shame to waste that Dr Fox: I am just a little stumped by the logic of that. initial investment should a subsequent Government We announced some time ago that we are reducing the decide to cancel Trident, having read the report, at the number of warheads carried per submarine, the number main decision point in 2016—I suspect that during the that are operationally available, and our total stockpile. 2015 election campaign that is what the Liberal Democrats Countries such as Iran and North Korea are continuing will argue should happen—so can the Secretary of State with their proliferation policy, so there does not seem to confirm that new propulsion systems and other technology be any correlation between what we are doing—making could be used in submarines deployed in other contexts those gestures—which goes well beyond the letter of and not just as part of a Trident programme? what is required of us under non-proliferation, and any ability of the rest of the world to predict what rogue Dr Fox: There is a certain read-across from the Astute regimes such as North Korea will do. As long as that to the Trident replacement and the UK should certainly threat remains, and as long as proliferation remains a take great pride in our technical capabilities in the threat to the United Kingdom, we must maintain the submarine arena. However, the hon. Gentleman rather protection of our people. 363 Nuclear Deterrent 18 MAY 2011 364

Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): The Secretary Points of Order of State indicated that the costs between now and 2016 were containable within his budget for the spending 1.45 pm review period, but there have been widespread reports in recent days that he is looking for further cuts in his Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): On a point of budget to meet his commitments. Can he reassure us order, Mr Speaker. Have you had any indication that that the costs can be met without detriment to the rest the Prime Minister will return to the House and correct of the defence budget? the record in relation to the role of Mr Mark Britnell under the previous Government? Mr Britnell was chief Dr Fox: The short answer is yes, but what I said was executive of an NHS hospital and then a civil servant in that a proportion of the costs that I outlined today, the Department of Health, not an adviser to the Labour which go to 2016, fall within the current comprehensive Government, as the Prime Minister claimed earlier spending review period. I am happy to give the hon. today. Lady the reassurance that the cost of that element which falls within that CSR period is already met by the Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her departmental budget. point of order. Mr Britnell is known to me, but I think the hon. Lady is seeking to continue the debate and argument. She may earn her spurs on her side by doing Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I welcome the so, but it is not a point of order on which I can rule. Secretary of State’s statement. He mentioned that the programme was of great national importance for Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): On a point of the whole United Kingdom. A majority of our great order, Mr Speaker. I seek your advice in relation to a nation want our national defences to be strong, and a procedural matter. Would it be in order for the Health nuclear deterrent is clearly a core part of that. It is also and Social Care Bill to be recommitted to a further clear that we need to work alongside our European Public Bill Committee, in light of the Deputy Prime colleagues to have a strong deterrent. What discussions Minister’s comments last night, when he said that it has the right hon. Gentleman had with them to ensure would be in order to remove one third of the 299 clauses that the cost of maintaining the deterrent falls on the in the Bill—those that relate to the new economic shoulders not only of the United Kingdom, but of regulator, Monitor? some of our European colleagues? Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is correct in supposing Dr Fox: Clearly, the costs of the British deterrent fall that it would be procedurally possible for the Bill to be upon the British taxpayer, the costs of the French recommitted to a Public Bill Committee, but the handling deterrent fall upon the French taxpayer and the costs of of the Bill is the Government’s responsibility; it is not the US deterrent upon the US taxpayer. There is a great mine. deal of work that we can do together to minimise costs. We have worked with the US on the missile system, we Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): On a point have worked on the common compartment, and we of order, Mr Speaker. We have just heard a lengthy have worked with the French on reducing the costs of statement from the Secretary of State for Defence about ensuring the safety of our warheads. When it comes to the replacement of the Trident nuclear missile system. I the consensus in the House and the country, it is fair to was not aware of any remarks by the right hon. Gentleman pause and reflect that at the general election, the two about when Parliament would debate that, when there largest parties supported the replacement of the Trident would be a vote on it, and when Parliament could fully programme. The Liberal Democrats supported the concept consider it, as a great deal of money appears to be of minimum credible deterrent, so any idea that the committed to the project. public have not given their assent to this in principle is to fly in the face of the reality of the ballot box. Mr Speaker: I hope the hon. Gentleman will not take it amiss if I say that I think he has given the House advance notice of his intention to be present in the Chamber tomorrow for business questions, for that will present an excellent opportunity for him to make his request. 365 18 MAY 2011 Road Safety 366

Road Safety insurance, legal and other costs, and potentially compensation costs. The cost to the economy is massive. Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order According to the Department for Transport, fatal accidents No. 23) cost on average more than £1,750,000. The cost of better mirrors and technical additions would be very 1.48 pm small in comparison to the huge cost of a new HGV. Fitting such technology to older vehicles could at least Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): I beg to be achieved on a gradual basis, at a cost of around move, £700 on present estimates. That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require the Secretary of State to make provision requiring the fitting of equipment to Clearly it is best for these measures to be introduced heavy goods vehicles to eliminate driver blind spots; to make across Europe, because HGVs travel all over the continent other provisions relating to the safety of cyclists, pedestrians and and our roads see numerous haulage vehicles from other road users; and for connected purposes. other European countries. For British hauliers, it would The Bill is about saving the lives of vulnerable road be much better if their competitors from continental users, particularly cyclists but also pedestrians and others. Europe were subject to the same requirements as they The particular vulnerability that it deals with is caused are. Although the Bill would give our Transport Secretary by blind spots on heavy goods vehicles. It is a problem powers to make regulations for the fitting of equipment that is particularly acute in city traffic, especially at to vehicles, its underlying purpose is to demonstrate junctions. The problem is likely to increase as cycling that Parliament wants to see the British Government becomes ever more popular as a means of getting to actively involved in securing Europe-wide regulations work in urban areas and for leisure, and as lorries get and not holding back. I am glad that the Under-Secretary bigger. of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), who has responsibility for A daughter of a constituent of mine lost her life in a roads, has been present throughout my speech to hear collision with a tipper truck. Eilidh Cairns was cycling this case. from her home in Kentish Town to her work in Chiswick. She had cycled this route daily for three years and she Other safety provisions could be incorporated in the was an experienced cyclist. She was caught up under the Bill, and it will be drafted in such a way as to allow wheels of the lorry, probably because its front bumper this. The details of its provisions can be examined made contact with her rear wheel. The coroner described carefully if the House allows it to be brought in and it as a gives it a fair wind. I have found very ready support “terrible, terrible tragedy that unfortunately is not an uncommon across the House for the Bill; the list of sponsors was occurrence here in London where a cyclist and a large vehicle filled up to the limit within an hour or so of it becoming come into contact with each other, and invariably the cyclist will known to the House and many more hon. and right suffer very serious or fatal injuries… It’s a huge problem that I hon. Members would have liked to have added their think the Government, cyclists and safer cycling groups are going names. The all-party group on cycling has been particularly to be grappling with for quite a considerable time”. supportive of the campaign, as have a number of The purpose of the Bill is to encourage the Government newspapers—The Independent, the Evening Standard to grapple with that problem in order to safe lives, and and the Newcastle Journal have all given it substantial using mirrors or technical means to eliminate drivers’ coverage. blind spots on HGVs is a vital weapon in doing so. Coroners’ verdicts often refer to the deaths of cyclists After her death, Eilidh’s family and friends set up the in the circumstances I have described as accidental “See me, Save me” campaign, which has gained massive deaths, which is much resented by many of the support. It shares a name with a motorcycling safety families involved. They feel very strongly that campaign that similarly seeks to secure greater road “accident” implies something that was beyond control safety. In the European Parliament, my colleague Fiona or prevention. It also seems to preclude culpability Hall MEP tabled a written declaration on the issue and where a driver has ignored the fact that he cannot see well over half of all MEPs—more than 400—have put an area of road on to which his vehicle is encroaching. their names to it. This means that the Commission must RoadPeace, the national charity for road crash produce proposals to deal with the issue, probably by victims, is pressing for the word “accident” not to be revising an existing directive so that newly-registered used in future for road crashes or collisions. The case HGVs will have effective means of eliminating blind that we are putting today is that many collisions that spots, emergency braking and lane departure warning lead to the deaths of cyclists and other vulnerable road systems. users could be prevented. We should not miss the Here at home, the Transport Secretary last week opportunity to call for practical measures to save lives. published a road safety consultation document with a Question put and agreed to. short section on vehicle technology. It stressed a preference Ordered, for voluntary compliance rather than regulation. On some issues I would share that preference, but on this That Sir Alan Beith, Dr Julian Huppert, Mr James issue I think regulation is needed, first because the Arbuthnot, Meg Munn, Naomi Long, Sir Peter Bottomley, problem remains so serious, and secondly to ensure that Andrea Leadsom, Jeremy Corbyn, Tom Brake, Mr Don hauliers who want to invest in good technology do not Foster, Fabian Hamilton and Natascha Engel present feel that they will be undercut by those who are unwilling the Bill. to do so. Sir Alan Beith accordingly presented the Bill. In fact, the costs to a haulage business of involvement in a fatal accident are substantial, including the loss of Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on a driver’s services for a long period, the disrupting Friday 9 September, and to be printed (Bill 191). 367 18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 368

Localism Bill Amendment 352, in clause 168, page 148, line 7, at end insert— [2ND ALLOCATED DAY] ‘(e) a majority of those London borough councils whose Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill borough contains any part of the designated development Committee. area agree to the designation.’. Government amendments 213 to 215, 218 to 220, [Relevant documents: The Second Report from the 223, 253 to 255 and 265. Communities and Local Government Committee, Abolition of Regional Spatial Strategies: a planning vacuum?, HC 517; Robert Neill: We are dealing with part 7 of the Bill, Written evidence submitted to the Communities and Local which relates to governance in Greater London, and Government Committee on the General Power of Competence, part 3, which relates largely to business rate matters HC 931; The Third Report from the Environmental Audit and, I am delighted to say, has not proven controversial. Committee, Sustainable Development in the Localism I hope that part 7 will not detain us terribly long either, Bill, HC 799.] as a good degree of consensus was achieved in Committee and there are just one or two matters that it is necessary to debate further. New Clause 21 I will start with new clause 21, the lead provision in the group, and the majority of associated matters. With TAX the exception of only two topics that I will come to in a ‘Schedule [Transfers and transfer schemes: tax provisions] moment, the rest of the group comprises a large number (provision about tax in connection with certain transfers and of technical amendments relating to two tax issues. transfer schemes) has effect.’.—(Robert Neill.) Although the new clause is the first new clause listed on the amendment paper, it is not really the natural starting Brought up, and read the First time. point, so perhaps I will be forgiven if I leapfrog over it to new clause 20, which will amend the Greater London 1.56 pm Authority Act 1999 and require the Greater London The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for authority to undertake certain specified activities for a Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): I commercial purpose through a taxable body. It relates beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. to the transfer of a large number of functions of the Housing Corporation in London to the Mayor, to the Mr Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss movement of the London Development Agency into the following: the GLA’s main body and to the establishment of mayoral Government new schedule 2—‘Transfers and transfer development corporations in London. All of those schemes: tax provisions. potentially involve commercial activity, so we have to get the tax treatment right. Government new clause 20—Authority may be required to carry on commercial activities through a Mr Speaker: Order. It might be helpful if I interrupt taxable body. to make the point to the House that, although that is Amendment 351, in clause 158, page 138, line 45, at indeed the lead new clause, the order in which representatives end insert— on the Treasury Bench deal with matters is entirely a ‘London Housing and Regeneration Board matter for them. Members can come in on such matters “333ZDA London Housing and Regeneration Board within the grouping as they think fit. (1) The Authority must establish a London Housing and Regeneration Board within six months of the Localism Act 2011 Robert Neill: I am grateful, Mr Speaker. being passed. I will encapsulate the technicalities as swiftly as I can, (2) The London Housing and Regeneration Board is to consist but it suffices to say that these amendments are necessary of such numbers (being not less than six) as the Authority may to ensure that those commercial activities that are from time to time appoint. undertaken by the GLA are done so within a taxable (3) The Authority must appoint one of the members as the environment. As a local authority, it would normally person with the function of chairing the London Housing and have tax-exempt status, but some of those activities are Regeneration Board. not of a local authority nature but more of a commercial (4) In appointing a person to be a member, the Authority— nature and so have to be properly taxable. There is a (a) must have regard to the desirability of appointing a long-established tax principle in that regard to ensure a person who has experience of, and shown some capacity level playing field between the public and private sectors in, a matter relevant to the exercise of the functions set out in this Chapter, in relation to commercial activities. That is particularly important in this case because the GLA will inherit, as (b) must be satisfied that the person will have no financial or other interest likely to affect prejudicially the exercise a consequence of our devolution measures, a significant of the person’s functions as a member, and portfolio of land interests, some of which operate on a (c) must ensure that at least 50 per cent. of the number of commercial basis and are subject to corporation tax members on the Board are appointed representatives and capital gains tax. It is not a new state of affairs. of London boroughs. Section 157 of the 1999 Act made light provision in (5) In exercising its housing and regeneration functions and relation to the activities of Transport for London. That powers subsequent to the enactment of this Chapter the Authority is the background to what we are doing. must consult and obtain agreement from the London Housing In a nutshell, the list of specified commercial activities, and Regeneration Board.”’. which will be set out in a detailed order, will be worked Government amendments 205 to 210 and 212. up by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the 369 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 370

[Robert Neill] which did not prove satisfactory, and as he knows the Government are looking at the matter in a different GLA during the passage of the Bill, but essentially the context. activities of the London Development Agency and We seek to introduce proper accountability to the Homes and Communities Agency will be transferred to London mayoral development corporation. There was the Mayor. That is how new clause 20 kicks off the a debate about whether it would be appropriate to give whole proposition. the boroughs a veto, and that possibility has foreshadowed New clause 21 introduces new schedule 2, which will an Opposition amendment. The Government have reflected neutralise certain tax consequences—the other side of on the matter, and we take the view that it probably is the coin—that might otherwise arise from the transfer appropriate and sensible to include a check and balance of various property, rights and liabilities from the Office in the system, but we conclude that, because the Mayor for Tenants and Social Landlords, the Homes and of London is a strategic authority and charged with the Communities Agency and the London Development economic development policy and oversight for London, Agency to other public bodies. There is a measure to the check and balance should not be through any one enable the Treasury to make similar tax provisions for London borough or group of London boroughs, as future mayoral development corporations. As we know, they have their own important role, are in any event the one is proposed, and we will come to that in a moment, statutory consultees on these matters and would have but the provision will technically permit others to be set the opportunity to put their views forward anyway. up and, therefore, embrace properly, within a legal It is more appropriate if the check and balance framework, all those related activities. mirrors other checks and balances in the GLA’s governance Essentially, every Government new clause and scheme, so that the London assembly, which is amendment with which we are concerned relates to that democratically elected and represents all Londoners, is process. The Opposition have tabled a couple of able to veto a proposal for a mayoral development amendments, which I can deal with conveniently either corporation by a two-thirds qualified majority vote. now or in due course once they have been spoken to, but suffice it to say that the only Government amendments Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): I am grateful that do not form part of the tax treatment provisions to the Government for accepting the approach that I are amendments 212 and 213. They relate to the mayoral outlined in Committee in response to an amendment development corporation, which is proposed for moved by the right hon. Member for Greenwich and establishment, and I hope that we can find some common Woolwich (Mr Raynsford). Will my hon. Friend confirm ground, because in Committee there was a discussion that, because of the two-thirds majority to which he and Members generally accepted as desirable both the refers and the GLA’s electoral system, one merit of the idea that the Mayor of London should have the power proposal is that it will effectively ensure the need for to establish a mayoral development corporation, and cross-party consensus behind any MDC designation? the current Mayor’s intention to establish such a corporation broadly relating to the Olympic park in east London. Robert Neill: My hon. Friend is entirely right, and I am grateful to him for raising the suggestion in Committee, The provision is more widely cast than that, for good because it fits neatly with an established pattern of reasons, and it will permit the establishment of other working in the GLA. As he rightly observes, the proposal mayoral development corporations. None is envisaged will require any Mayor to achieve a measure of cross-party by the current Mayor and I am not conscious of any consensus. The system is established in relation to the envisaged by potential Mayors, either, but it would be Mayor’s budget and the various strategies that he is on the books for the future. entitled to bring forward, and it is logical to include The question that arose, and which the Government such an important issue in the same regime. Not only is seek to address with the proposed changes, was what there an electoral system in the GLA which requires are the appropriate means of holding the Mayor to cross-party consensus for a two-thirds majority, but the account for mayoral development corporation proposals. assembly is seized of certain powers not unlike our If a future Mayor—I am sure that it would not be the powers in this place to call for people and papers, so it current Mayor—were to come up with a proposal for a can summon people and, therefore, carry out robust mayoral development corporation which was thought scrutiny. objectionable, by what means would a control or brake Importantly, the assembly is also elected on a basis be put on that process? that includes constituency representatives and those elected through a list system, so any London borough that might be affected or concerned by a proposed Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): Does my mayoral development corporation has its constituency hon. Friend agree that the anecdotal evidence from the assembly representative at City hall who is able to stand Thames Gateway is that the level of accountability and up, ask questions and challenge on their behalf. I hope the funding streams were often indistinct, that there was that that meets the Opposition’s point, and that their an insufficient level of democratic accountability through amendment will not be necessary. boroughs outside London, London boroughs and the mayoralty, and that the proposed changes before us seek to rectify that situation? Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): I doubt it, because having representatives from borough councils on the assembly is not a strong enough measure; Robert Neill: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. they may not comprise the majority. There is still the There is a history to the incremental growth of the view in London borough councils, which we will hear London Thames Gateway Development Corporation, more of when we come to our amendments, that they 371 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 372 should have a veto. The designation of a mayoral discussion between the Mayor and the five London development corporation in an area is a very powerful boroughs affected. There has been some negotiation, measure. I heard the Minister say that he did not believe which is probably a mature thing to have in the current the current Mayor had any extra MDCs in mind, but he circumstances. The upshot is that we now have a proposal could do, and the power is cast quite widely. to which the Mayor and the London boroughs are satisfied they can sign up. The boroughs accept that Robert Neill: I am disappointed in the hon. Lady’s they cede some planning power for a period, but now response, because I thought that we had got a good deal do so by agreement with the Mayor. I think the same of the way down the track to meet what were sensible process can be achieved in other cases. concerns. There is a difference between recognising that the establishment of a mayoral development corporation Mr Stewart Jackson: Setting aside the sui generis is part of the outworking of London-wide policy, in nature of London governance, does my hon. Friend which the Mayor will have to have regard to the strategic agree that the level of direct accountability of these economic and developmental interests of the whole Government proposals is greater than that which existed city, which may be different from the individual interests hitherto in, for instance, West Northamptonshire of a single local authority, and recognising that the Development Corporation, North Northants Development assembly is the body that this House has already charged Corporation and most of, if not all of, the housing with holding the Mayor to account for the way in which market renewal areas? This is indeed an improvement in he exercises those powers. terms of direct accountability for regeneration policy. There is a difficulty with giving a veto to an individual London borough, because the borough’s interests are Robert Neill: My hon. Friend is absolutely right for very properly not required to be strategic in the same two reasons. First, the power to set up the corporation way as those of the Mayor and of the assembly. Often is devolved, and a directly elected regional figure, in the they are, in fairness, and I do not mean to diminish the shape of the Mayor, takes that decision. Secondly, there importance of the London boroughs. As the hon. Lady is the veto, which did not exist in relation to the other, knows, I spent 16 years as a London borough councillor earlier-style development corporations. There is therefore before spending eight years on the London assembly. a significantly enhanced degree of accountability. That may indicate precocious sadness on my part, but that is a different matter. Both bodies fulfil very important Simon Hughes: I heard what the Minister said about functions, but they are different functions, and, if we the discussions that have been going on in east London are rightly going to put a check and balance on the between the Mayor and the local authorities. If, for Mayor’s exercise of his strategic role, we must do so example, the current Mayor or any future Mayor had through the assembly—the elected strategic check and the further idea that there should be mayoral development balance. The boroughs have an important role in this corporations south of the river, would that, of necessity, because the Mayor is required to consult them, among require him to have the agreement of the local authority other bodies, and they therefore have a powerful tool in or authorities in question if they had a different view, being able to raise their concerns and to lobby their given that there could be a conflict? Co-operation is borough elected representative on the assembly to ensure fine, but a difference of view that means that the local that their case and their voice is heard. authority’s views were disregarded is not so fine.

Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) Robert Neill: In theory, a Mayor could seek to disregard (LD): Our colleagues on the London assembly are a local authority’s views, but in practice we reckon that supportive of the Government’s amendments and new the new clause makes that unachievable. There are two clauses, as are my London colleagues and other colleagues reasons for that. First, the Mayor will have to consult in this place. Let me seek clarification on one thing; I the local authorities, which will have registered their hope that I might catch the Speaker’s eye later to speak objection. As with any public law decision, he has to on the substance of it. If the Mayor were to set up behave in a way that is rational and reasonable within development corporations in London, would there be the terms of the Associated Provincial Picture Houses v. any changes in the planning processes in those areas Wednesbury Corporation case. Secondly, because of that took democratic control away from the elected the electoral arrangements in London, the local authority councillors? That was controversial under the old urban would be well placed to ensure that a blocking majority development corporations set up by the Conservative was created in the assembly to prevent the policy from Government when Lord Heseltine was the relevant going through. There is a theoretical possibility that the Secretary of State. Mayor would be able to create the sort of rogue corporation that one might be concerned about, but in reality it is Robert Neill: Yes, the corporations could act in that pretty much inconceivable. way. They do not have to, because we have not been as specific as was the case in the past with the old-style Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): development corporations as to exactly what they have The Minister knows that it is not just a theoretical to include. The likelihood, it is fair to say, is that they possibility. The Bill states very clearly that if the Mayor would, because part of the objective of a development applies to the Secretary of State for a mayoral development corporation generally is to bring the development function corporation and has gone through the processes of and the planning function for a particular area together consultation, if that proposal then comes before the to speed up development. In practice—I hope that this Secretary of State, he must, under the terms of the Bill, will reassure my right hon. Friend—the east London create that mayoral development corporation. When I MDC that was proposed for the Olympic park area has put these points to the Minister in earlier debates in this been involved an iterative process, with a degree of Chamber on Second Reading and in Committee, I said 373 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 374

[Mr Nick Raynsford] the individual borough is opposed to it. Will he now please concede that I was not wrong on that point, the real danger was that a Mayor who had considerable because that is what the Bill says? support in the assembly, as can happen following an election, would be in a strong position to railroad Robert Neill: I will give the right hon. Gentleman through his proposal against the opposition of the local this: he is right on textual analysis but remains wrong borough. That remains the case, and I hope that the on policy, because his solution is a centralist one that Minister will accept that. would give the Secretary of State a veto. The whole point of what we are doing, in improving the Bill from 2.15 pm its original state, is that we do not allow the Secretary of Robert Neill: I am sorry, but the right hon. Gentleman State to veto a decision taken by elected representatives has been consistently wrong on this point. If he will in London; rather, we allow the assembly, which is the forgive my saying so, I know that he is offended when established body for keeping the Mayor of London in somebody comes up with an idea in London governance check, to exercise the veto. In policy terms, that is which is not his own. With respect to him, as he has preferable. considerable experience in this field, his solution to the I am disappointed that the Opposition object to this. risk, which I do accept, that a Mayor might seek to set As I recall only too well, in 1999 they made great play of up a rogue or an unacceptable development corporation having devolved power to London by establishing the was, in effect, to give the Secretary of State the veto—in Greater London authority. I now accept that that was other words, instead of saying, as the Bill does, that the the right thing to do. We are following the logic of that Secretary of State “must” approve the proposal, that he by enabling Londoners to take the decision as to what is “may” approve a policy, and that the veto would rest the best shape and size of an important regeneration with a Minister. That was a highly centralising means of tool for London. They do that with the Mayor making resolving the problem. Instead, the Government have the proposal and the assembly having the ability, if trusted the elected representatives of London and said necessary, to veto it, and the boroughs being able to be that the assembly, through qualified majority voting, consulted and to exercise influence through their elected may exercise the veto. That is much more consistent members of the assembly. I am sorry that the Opposition with the localist thrust of the Bill, and I would have seem to want to start a bit of a war where none need thought it was closer to what the right hon. Gentleman, exist, because there is consensus among all parties in the who after all introduced devolution in London, would assembly that it is desirable to go down this route. himself wish to see. Barbara Keeley: I think I am right in reporting the Mr Raynsford rose— Minister as saying that a principle of the Localism Bill is to trust local representatives. I hope that Ministers Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con) will bear that in mind as they take the Bill through its rose— final stages in the House, because I want to question Robert Neill: I give way first to my hon. Friend and them about why that does not carry through to the then to the right hon. Gentleman. imposition of shadow mayors, although I know that that is outside the scope of this debate. If we are to be Andrea Leadsom: As my hon. Friend knows, West true to the principle of trusting elected representatives, Northants Development Corporation has been hated which the Minister has just stated, we must not impose by local residents for the simple reason that it was on them. forced on them to try to implement a central Government Various people have intervened in this debate. It housing policy that has not been successful and that we would help if we moved on to considering the amendments hope to eliminate within the next couple of years. fairly soon, because we will be able to take the arguments in the round if we do that. Robert Neill: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for sharing her experience of that body, which is a matter of Mr Speaker: Order. That is in the hands of the Chair. great concern to her and to others. We have endeavoured At this stage, the hon. Gentleman will continue his to learn from past experience and past failings in the remarks. way in which we construct our arrangement, and we have therefore put a democratic veto into our proposals. Robert Neill: I am grateful, Mr Speaker. I am anxious Mr Raynsford: I want to correct the Minister’s assertion to deal with as many of the issues raised by hon. that I was wrong in my interpretation of the Bill. I Members as possible, because this debate is time-limited, repeat the point that was put to him by the right hon. and for good reason. I hope that I have dealt, in large Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon measure, with why it is appropriate to adopt the Hughes): if the Mayor decides to proceed with a Government amendments, and why that is preferable to proposal for a mayoral development corporation, the placing a veto in the hands of the boroughs, which Secretary of State has to give effect to it if it is not would create a potential conflict of interest, or the blocked by the assembly. We have had debates about earlier Opposition proposition of leaving a veto with the proper mechanisms for blocking such a proposal. central Government, which would be entirely contrary However, as the Minister must concede because it is to the spirit of the Bill. in the Bill, if those mechanisms do not work, the I will cover one final topic before I finish, if I may. Secretary of State has no discretion and has to give Another proposal in the group, which I anticipate will effect to the Mayor’s requirement to bring into effect be put, is amendment 351, tabled by the hon. Member such a development corporation irrespective of whether for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), the next-door 375 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 376 neighbour of part of my constituency. The amendment They would give councils and councillors a voice, and relates to the London housing and regeneration board. they would give people in London the same say as It is important that the Bill transfers housing powers people elsewhere in the country. and responsibilities from central Government agencies, Amendment 352 would make it a requirement that a in the form of the Homes and Communities Agency, to local authority in a proposed MDC area must agree to the Mayor. That has been welcomed across the piece its establishment. If more that one local authority is politically in London. It is envisaged that the London affected, all must agree. The Bill gives complete power housing board will be the vehicle within which that to the Mayor and the Secretary of State. Under Government work is carried out. amendment 213, the support of two thirds of the assembly As I read it, and I will happily be corrected if I am will be needed for a proposal to move forward. That is wrong, the amendment would prescribe in statute a not a sufficient assurance. There could be a situation in requirement that the GLA should have a London housing London in which local people are completely against and regeneration board. I cannot go that far because the setting up of an MDC, councillors and the local although it is no doubt a sensible thing to have, certainly authority in the area are completely against the setting at the moment, and is something that works well enough up of an MDC, and the GLA constituency member is with the involvement of the Mayor’s office and the completely against the setting up of an MDC, and yet if boroughs, we do not think it is consistent with the spirit the Mayor wants it to happen, it will happen. I ask hon. of localism for us to prescribe, in one particular area, Members, what is localist about that? the manner in which the GLA should carry out its We had some fun in Committee. On Second Reading, activities. Interestingly, that again seems to be a little bit my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and of potential centralism creeping in through the back Woolwich (Mr Raynsford) talked about the prospect of door. I would prefer to give the Mayor and the boroughs a new Mayor of London—perhaps Ken Livingstone in flexibility in determining how to take those issues forward. a year’s time—choosing to establish a mayoral development I hope that I have dealt with all the topics in what has corporation in Bromley. I will not repeat those comments. perhaps been a livelier debate than might have been anticipated when we started to talk about tax clauses, Mr Raynsford: Why not? which I note have not featured in the controversy at all, perhaps not surprisingly. Heidi Alexander: I will not repeat them because I am under strict instructions to keep the debate moving as Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): I am grateful quickly as I can. for the opportunity to speak to the two amendments in my name, although it feels rather strange to be doing so Mr Stewart Jackson: I am interested in the hon. when we have already had much of the debate. I will Lady’s views and I am listening to her with great attention. speak to amendment 351, which relates to the establishment Does she not feel that her proposals are a recipe for of a London housing and regeneration board, and institutionalised impasse? Having served on such benign seeks to guarantee that at least 50% of the membership bodies as the London Ecology Committee, the London of such a board would be made up of representatives Waste Regulation Authority and the London fire and from the local authority. I will also speak to amendment civil defence authority, I know that it is almost impossible 352, which we have already debated at some length, and to get all the boroughs to agree. Therefore, if one which relates to the process that has to be gone through borough has a de facto veto, there would never be any to establish a mayoral development corporation. Under major progress on housing and regeneration across the amendment, the agreement of any council that is Greater London. affected would be required before an MDC could be established. I am conscious that there is much to debate Heidi Alexander: That is quite a negative view of this afternoon, so I will limit my remarks. politics in London. I do not think that my proposal I will move on to why I tabled the amendments. I would lead to institutionalised impasse. The proposals should say at the outset that the amendments have been on the ability to set up an MDC in any area are promoted and supported by London Councils, which, incredibly important. The things that an MDC could as hon. Members know, is the cross-party organisation do, such as granting planning permission for different that represents London boroughs. We can debate the developments, compulsorily purchasing land and agreeing localist merits of the Bill as a whole, but the provisions plans for an area, are significant matters for people who on London are distinctly regionalist. Whereas in other live in the neighbourhood. Local councils and councillors parts of the country there is the abolition of regional would also have views on those matters. I would hope spatial strategies, we still have the London plan. The that all parts of London government could come together Bill proposes the winding up of the London Development and agree whether an MDC was an appropriate vehicle Agency and the London part of the Homes and in a local area. I therefore question whether retaining Communities Agency, with their powers being transferred the powers with the Mayor and the Secretary of State in to the London Mayor. Due to the Government’s the Bill is true localism. That was my reason for tabling understandable desire to ensure that the regeneration amendment 352. legacy of the Olympics takes effect, there are proposals As the Minister said, amendment 351 to clause 158 in the Bill to enable the Mayor to set up a mayoral proposes the establishment of a new London housing development corporation. However, as drafted, the Bill and regeneration board. With the winding up of the suggests that there could be an MDC anywhere in London Development Agency and the London part of London, and not just at the Olympics site. My amendments the Homes and Communities Agency, many powers will would act as a brake on the concentrating powers that be transferred to the Mayor of London. We also see in the Bill puts into the hands of the Mayor of London. chapter 3 of part 6 that provision is made for the 377 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 378

[Heidi Alexander] rather strange for Conservative Members to be defending city-wide government and for Labour Members to be devolution of local authority housing finance. That will making the case for the boroughs. Incidentally, I say in mean an enhanced role for local authorities in providing, passing that I always find it slightly grating when people commissioning and funding affordable housing in London. refer to London as a region. It is a city, and I consider myself as living not in a region but in the world’s 2.30 pm greatest city. I believe it is vital that local authorities and the Having started on that note of disagreement, I wish London Mayor work together to ensure a joint focus on to say that on Second Reading and in Committee the the delivery of much-needed new affordable homes. My right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich amendment would establish a board within six months (Mr Raynsford) correctly diagnosed a problem with the of the Bill coming into law, and as I said earlier, at least Bill. There was a danger that a future Mayor would 50% of members of that board would be local authority designate a mayoral development corporation despite representatives. That would be a good way of achieving widespread cross-party opposition in all parts of the the joint working that London so desperately needs. affected area. There would be nothing that the Secretary The Minister said that the amendment was unnecessarily of State could do but accept that designation. He was prescriptive and asked why we should legislate to set up absolutely right about that, and we had a good debate such a board in London. I cannot let that pass, because about it in Committee. in other parts of the Bill, that idea has not prevented the As my hon. Friend the Minister said, the problem Government from being incredibly prescriptive, whether with the solution that the right hon. Gentleman proposed about arrangements to establish a neighbourhood forum at that point was that it would have centralised the or the process for nominating land as a community decision back with the Government. I made the suggestion, asset. The Bill is hugely prescriptive in many ways, and I which I am grateful to the Government for adopting, suggest that on a matter as important as regeneration that we should go with the grain of the existing and the provision of affordable housing, perhaps we arrangements, for which the right hon. Gentleman was could have a bit more prescription to ensure that we probably responsible, and use the London assembly to achieve what we all want in London. hold the Mayor in check. The provision of new homes in London at a rent that The hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), people can afford is one of the most pressing challenges who made a very good contribution throughout the in the capital. It is difficult, because we do not see huge Committee stage, has proposed an alternative solution. amounts of land lying around in London and it cannot The problem is that, if just one local authority were easily be bought cheaply. Also, the Government have involved, that local authority would essentially be given brought forward a huge programme of swingeing cuts a veto. There might be good public policy reasons for to capital budgets for house building. We have seen the the Mayor wanting to pursue a development corporation proposals for the affordable rent model, and there are solution in a particular area. I therefore believe that the many important questions to ask about how workable it Government have adopted the right model in the Bill. I is in London, particularly in funding the building of suppose I would say that, having proposed it in Committee, three and four-bedroom family homes. Perhaps they but I hope that Ministers will consider a couple of can be built, but whether anyone living in London can minor tweaks that could be made. If they are persuaded, afford to live in them is another thing altogether. perhaps that can happen in another place. I shall come There are important issues to deal with in the provision to those tweaks in a moment. of new affordable housing in London, and we have to find a way of getting the Mayor of London, the Greater My hon. Friend the Minister will know that many London authority, the local authorities and local of the people who serve on the London assembly communities to work together to achieve that aim. That are themselves councillors in the local authorities is the only way in which progress will be made. It is not concerned. In Croydon and Sutton, our London assembly about one part of London government blaming another; member, Steve O’Connell, is a Croydon councillor. In it is about genuine partnership. I am not making a party the neighbouring GLA constituency of Merton and political point—yes, politics will come into the discussions Wandsworth, Richard Tracey is a local councillor. that take place between the Mayor and London boroughs, but sometimes the arguments will be between politicians Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con) of the same party. I want us to raise the issue above indicated assent. party politics and give it the importance that it deserves. I urge Members to listen carefully to the rest of the debate and to ask themselves the following questions. Gavin Barwell: My hon. Friend, who is a former Does part 7 of the Bill represent a new era in localism? member of the assembly, knows that many members are Does it devolve decisions to the lowest possible level? in that position. Does it give more power to London residents and The right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old citizens? I do not think that it does, and if Government Southwark (Simon Hughes) referred to urban development Members agree with me, I suggest that they join me in corporations. I see that he is in heavy conversation at the Lobby when we vote on my amendments later, the moment, but he talked about the lack of democratic because I intend to press them. accountability in those corporations in the 1980s. It is important to make the point that in this case, the Gavin Barwell: I will restrict myself to commenting designation of a development corporation would be on mayoral development corporations. There is an irony made not by central Government but by the Mayor of in the positions that the parties are taking today. It is London, who is democratically elected. 379 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 380

I am conscious of the time and know that other That handover of powers to the UDCs was very Members wish to speak, so I end with two points that controversial, because it meant that planning decisions Ministers might wish to consider. Schedule 21 deals were taken by a group of unelected people. It was with the detailed arrangements for mayoral development possible to influence the people who took the decisions, corporations. Paragraph 1 is about the membership of but never possible to hold them directly accountable. I them, and perhaps the Government could consider a used to go to planning committee meetings following requirement that the people whom the Mayor appointed lots of community activity—they were not always in to them, or at least some of them, should have a Southwark: sometimes, for major planning schemes in connection with the local area covered. That is not the Surrey docks or along the riverside, meetings were mentioned in the schedule. It sets out the need for held at the LDDC in the Isle of Dogs or elsewhere—but people to have experience and to have shown some communities often felt alienated afterwards. The legacy capacity in the relevant functions of the corporation, is the feeling of remoteness when decisions are not and for them to have no financial interest. Those are taken by locally elected representatives. both good and sensible provisions, but there may well I am not saying that the local community comes be a case for ensuring that at least some members have a away feeling deliriously happy after every local council local connection with the area and perhaps a relationship planning committee meeting. I have seen enough local with the local authority. planning committees in Southwark over the years make Paragraph 6 of schedule 21 is about committees controversial planning decisions—under Labour, Liberal established by mayoral development corporations. Sub- Democrat and Liberal Democrat-Conservative coalition paragraph (3) states: administrations. However, at the end of the day, the public at least know that they can kick those people out “A committee or sub-committee may, with the agreement of at the next election if they want to do so. My premise, the Mayor, include persons who are not members of the MDC, but a majority of the members of a committee or sub-committee therefore, is that the starting point should always be must be members of the MDC.” accountable decision making, particularly on planning matters, and particularly on the big planning matters I, and I suspect other Members, have received that “urban development” by definition implies. This is representations from both the Mayor and the assembly not about whether someone can have a bedroom in the stating that they would be happy with a much more mansard roof of a flat or house, or whether someone’s relaxed rule that gave MDCs more freedom to appoint garage can be an extra bedroom; this is about schemes a greater proportion of people who were not members for industrial sites and other things on that scale. of its board. Those people may well be members of the local authority or have connections with the area. Given Mr Stewart Jackson: I hasten to say that I do not that we have not yet achieved complete consensus on know as much about the right hon. Gentleman’s this matter, the Government could look at some of the constituency as he does, but surely the history of the details of schedule 21, to see whether we can address LDDC is that the political administrations in, for instance, some of those concerns. Tower Hamlets and Newham, which happened to be In conclusion, it is greatly to Ministers’ credit that Labour-run at the time, were viscerally hostile to central they listened to the debate in Committee and came back Government, and refused to undertake any realistic with a solution, which I think is a good one that action on regeneration or to face up to post-industrial improves the Bill. If they went away and looked at a decline in their boroughs. Central Government was couple of details on schedule 21, it might be possible to therefore forced to step in to provide a template for address some of the concerns that hon. Members have regeneration and housing. raised in this debate. Simon Hughes: I shall not help the House to hold a seminar on London in the ’70s and ’80s, which would Simon Hughes: I shall make a brief contribution to actually be very interesting. The hon. Gentleman is what is an important debate for London, which I am nevertheless right. Local authorities did not get on with happy to take part in once again. development. There were frozen developments, including one in the Royal Docks and some in my constituency, I agree with the hon. Member for Lewisham East after the closure of the London docks in the upper pool (Heidi Alexander) that the two biggest issues that affect in places like Bermondsey, and their move down to my constituents and hers, and that fall directly or indirectly Tilbury. That is why the Government intervened, and I within the remit of local government, are jobs and understand why they did so. It was necessary to get housing. Most people are most concerned about those something moving. Whatever else we say about it, the two issues most of the time. I am afraid that I come to LDDC certainly did that. Its legacy has, in general this debate with long experience in this place. When I terms, been very benign. The regeneration has been was first elected, Lady Thatcher’s Government had just hugely successful. Southwark is as prosperous as it is, set up urban development corporations throughout the and the business rates that are collected in Southwark country, of which the London Docklands Development are as high as they are, because of the regeneration Corporation was one. Indeed, that was the backdrop to along the riverside from London bridge down to the my by-election, because my predecessor, Bob Mellish, end of my constituency at the other side of the Greenland was appointed as vice-chairman of the LDDC. That dock, on the border with Deptford. was not uncontroversial in Bermondsey, because people in general, and particularly those in the Labour party, did not think that a quango should be given the powers 2.45 pm over Southwark, Newham and Tower Hamlets that the To pursue the housing and jobs theme, it is clear that LDDC was given, so appointing a Labour MP to the there are huge opportunities for employment-regenerative LDDC was not consistent with Labour party policy. activities in inner-London boroughs if the conditions— 381 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 382 meaning rate relief, sites and so on—are right. I visited Democrats voted against the creation of a Mayor of the Tower Bridge Business Centre in my constituency London. He might have supported the concept of an just the other day, which is on the site of the old Peek assembly, but the Liberal Democrats did not support Freans factory in Bermondsey. That hugely successful, the GLA architecture as it exists. privately owned enterprise provides a nursery and units of various sizes for people as they grow their businesses. Simon Hughes: The right hon. Gentleman is of course It is one of a set of businesses run by the same company correct. He knows that as well as anybody, because it around Greater London, where it does all its business. was his plan that the Government were delivering on. It has very innovative ideas. There is no shortage of Liberal Democrats wanted devolution to London, but individuals, small firms and others that want to come in we were not sold on that model, which is why we still— to take over the spaces that were previously occupied by Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. May larger businesses. The large wholesale warehouses and I just say that we need to get back to dealing with the distribution centres, for example, are not in London any new clause? We are having a history lesson in the more, and we no longer need storage centres because we Chamber. As interesting as that is, other people are store on micro-files rather than in paper files. waiting to speak. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman The opportunity for London to continue as a place of now wishes to address the new clause. employment still exists, and not just in the financial industries of the City. London has fantastic creative Simon Hughes: I stand rebuked, Mr Deputy Speaker. industries, small engineering enterprises and so, and we I was tempted by the right hon. Gentleman, but I will must make the most of these opportunities. not be anymore. I will make a few more comments, and There is a huge need to ensure that we continue to then sit down. build homes at prices that our constituents can afford. The next issue is how exactly the transfer of powers The other day, I met some representatives of the G15 back to London will work. It is certainly right that, as group of London housing associations, which owns the the Bill proposes, we get rid of the London function of largest number of properties in London—it is known to the Homes and Communities Agency, which is a quango, all London Members. The G15 is concerned about how and transfer it to a democratically elected Mayor answerable the financial picture and envelope will permit them to to the 25 elected members of the London assembly. develop. I undertook to the G15 that I would seek to That is a good thing. It is also certainly right that the convene a meeting in June to try to sort out what Government abolish the Government office for London. appears at the moment to be a set of policies that is not There is no need for a Government office for London as yet fully connected. Invited are the Housing and Local well as a Mayor, a London assembly and a Greater Government Minister, who has agreed to attend; Lord London authority. All those policies are heading in the Freud, the Under-Secretary of State for Work and right direction. Pensions; colleagues from throughout London from all We now need to solve the further dilemma of how we parties; the Mayor, who has shown an interest; local strike the right balance between London-wide decisions, councillors representing the 33 local authorities;, and which are perfectly proper, and the interests of the the housing world. How do we deliver more affordable boroughs. I understand that there is still some unresolved homes, particularly the larger homes with three or four tension in that regard. My colleagues on the London bedrooms for families, and deliver on the Government’s assembly and across London think that, on balance, the general approach to welfare without making it impossible Government are heading in the right direction, so today, for people to stay in the sorts of homes that we want although obviously the hon. Member for Lewisham them to be in? I hope we can join up that remaining part East is entitled to make her case, we cannot support her. of the policy, and I welcome the advice of the hon. However, I do not want her to take that to mean that Member for Lewisham East, who has experience of the there are not further conversations to be had. Obviously matter. I will work with her colleagues and Conservative the Bill will go to the House of Lords, and there will be colleagues, and I am sure that we can make further opportunities to look at these things afresh. progress. I also welcome the fact that the Mayor is I am hopeful that today’s debate will flag up the need taking a direct interest. to ensure—I am happy to have further conversations The proposals in this group are about further transfers with colleagues about this—that the new architecture is of power to the Mayor. As a veteran of both the the right architecture. I heard clearly what the Minister legislation to the abolish the Greater London council, said about the Mayor’s power being subject to the which I opposed, and the legislation to set up the two-thirds support of the London assembly, and I agree Greater London authority, which I supported, I believe that that amounts to a requirement for a cross-party that more powers should be given to London government endorsement or cross-party veto. That will be a welcome from central Government. Indeed, the difficulties that control mechanism. I do not criticise the fact that the the Government have run into on other policies—for representatives, particularly the constituency representatives, example, on the NHS—could have been less had they should be able to speak for their constituencies, including accepted our advice. I and my hon. Friends argued and for the borough councils within those constituencies, voted for amendments on transferring strategic health which is one of their jobs. powers to London government, for example, because it is better to get rid of unaccountable quangos and Heidi Alexander: What does the right hon. Gentleman regional bodies and to replace them with accountable make of what I see as something of a conundrum in the regional bodies. Bill? If a neighbourhood forum in his constituency came up with a neighbourhood plan, it could be completely Mr Raynsford: I was a little surprised when the right overridden by the establishment of a mayoral development hon. Gentleman said that he supported the restoration corporation, over which his community, councillors of the GLA. My recollection is that he and the Liberal and local authority will have had no say. 383 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 384

Simon Hughes: They will have had a say, because, as we need to aim for consensus by the time the Bill the hon. Lady will know, the Bill contains a requirement completes its passage through the House of Lords and for formal consultation with a list of people, including Parliament. every local authority and others. The Government are trying to take power from the Mr Stewart Jackson: I am pleased to follow the right centre and hand it down to the regions, including London, hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark and then further down, not just to local authorities but (Simon Hughes). It goes without saying that I support to neighbourhoods. Southwark has eight community the Government amendments. The Bill will disturb the councils, which is very welcome. That is what the Under- equilibrium that we established in 1998 and the settled Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, view of London governance. The right hon. Member the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford) piloted Neill), who has responsibility for planning, asks us to the legislation on this matter through Parliament. I had support. However, that does not mean that there should the pleasure—generally speaking—of serving with him not be overarching responsibilities on a London-wide in the last Parliament on several Bill Committees, but in basis. some respects he is resiling from earlier commitments. His proposals opposing the Government amendments I say to the hon. Member for Lewisham East that and the views expressed ably and articulately by the there is certainly a wish to continue arguing for a hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) London-wide responsibility for housing strategy, and seek effectively to undermine the authority and autonomy we need to work out the best way of delivering that. of the boroughs. They would set up an institutionalised Boroughs will do their own thing to develop as much conflict between the boroughs and the Greater London as they can, but we will clearly need a London-wide authority, with the Mayor quite possibly acting as the policy to meet the needs of the homeless, asylum seekers de facto referee and invigilator. That is a serious concern. and refugees, for instance, who do not immediately and naturally become the responsibility of a particular borough, On the hon. Lady’s amendment 351, we should because they do not have a fixed link with that borough. acknowledge the consensus in the House on the need I and my London colleagues are keen to work with her for more affordable housing, better quality housing and and her London colleagues and the Minister and his aesthetically pleasing housing, and above all for regeneration colleagues to try to ensure that at the end of the to consolidate London’s position as the pre-eminent deliberations we put in place the best possible structure, city in Europe. However, looking at what was delivered providing appropriate responsibilities at the level of in the dozen or so years of the regional development boroughs and the Mayor and the London assembly, agencies, when we had a centralised policy, and an and as far as possible allowing for democratic accountability over-prescriptive and—one may even say—draconian for all policies, particularly housing and regeneration. approach to housing targets, I am not convinced that instituting a pan-London borough body would achieve the key objectives that we all seek. Gavin Barwell: I tried to address in my speech the point that the right hon. Gentleman is making, but he I mentioned earlier, albeit perhaps in a slightly irreverent was in discussion with a colleague at the time. If paragraph 6 way, that for eight years while I was a London borough of schedule 11 was amended, it would give the Mayor councillor, I served on bodies that were largely non-political. more flexibility to put people from neighbourhood To get agreement on waste transfer and ecology centres planning groups or local authority representatives on to was difficult enough, so making value judgments as the MDC planning committee. That may be one way of between different boroughs and in effect resiling from a squaring this circle. strategic overview of what is good for a whole city or region probably would not work. Incidentally, I have to disabuse my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Simon Hughes: At the moment, of course, the legislation Central (Gavin Barwell) of one notion. Peterborough provides for how the Mayor chooses the people to be on is, in fact, the greatest city in the world, but we might the development corporations. That could be looked at have to beg to differ on that. However, with all due again. I do not think that my colleagues would object to respect to the hon. Member for Lewisham East, while there being nominees either from the local authorities in my heart agrees with her, my head says that her proposals the areas in question—whether from more than one or probably would not work or deliver what we wish. a single local authority—or from the community councils Let me briefly address the Government amendments and elsewhere. I think the hon. Gentleman’s idea, which and the points made by the hon. Member for Worsley we need to consider, is a good one. and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) and the right hon. There needs to be good democracy in London whereby Member for Greenwich and Woolwich. As the right people can be held to account for the decisions they hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark make. The fact that the London Development Agency said, we would be returning to something like the is going is helpful, because it means that the Mayor will situation that prevailed with the London Docklands be responsible for London’s economic regeneration as a Development Corporation, with the Secretary of State whole. That is what mayors of big cities should do. required to make the value judgment that the neither Whether people support mayors in big cities is a separate the boroughs nor the GLA could sort something out, debate, but if we have them, that is what they should do. and would therefore impose a regeneration body. We The Mayor should be held to account by the assembly, have moved on from that. We now have a more mature so I hope that we can say to the Minister that he is on and nuanced political culture. Once we establish the the right track, but that he should remain alert to the bona fides of London governance through the GLA concerns expressed by the hon. Member for Lewisham and the Mayor, with the proviso that there will effectively East and her Front-Bench colleagues. If we can get it, be a two-thirds veto for the directly elected individuals, 385 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 386

[Mr Stewart Jackson] A powerful point about the history of London was made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey who will debate among themselves and with their boroughs, and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) and my hon. it would seem invidious to undermine that by putting so Friend the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell), much potential power—again, effectively in the form of and it was also reinforced by my hon. Friend the Member a veto—in the hands of the Mayor. for Peterborough. They all have long experience in London government. Their point was that there are 3pm some details that can be looked at, but it is important to On that basis, I would urge Ministers—and in particular recognise that the relationship between the Mayor and the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member the assembly has matured, even in the short time that for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill)—to reject the assembly has been in existence. Indeed, the relationship the Opposition’s views and to make the case strongly. between the Mayor and the boroughs has matured What we have is the best consensual way forward to regardless of party, under Mayors of both principal ensure that we get what we all want, which is better parties, as it happens. We should not underestimate the quality housing in London and for the economic engine brokerage and leverage role that exists in the system, in driving the south-east and the wider country to be a addition to a purely legalistic role. success. That is why I support the Government amendments. If I may be permitted to mention one bit of history, something that we learned from the previous GLC is Barbara Keeley: I want to speak briefly in support of that it was not simply the disagreements of Ken Livingstone the amendments so ably presented by my hon. Friend with the Government of the day that undermined the the Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander). GLC. Rather, the GLC was undermined by the tension There was much consensus on this part of the Bill, between the two tiers and the risk, on occasion, of unlike on others. There was much consultation with the impasse—impasse that arose regardless of the party Mayor, the Greater London assembly and London councils. controlling the GLC and the London boroughs at the To me, this part of the Bill shows the value of early and time. That is my concern. Giving boroughs an absolute thorough consultation. Perhaps there is a lesson for us veto in the way suggested by amendment 352 risks there. recreating the tensions of the old GLC days, rather than As my hon. Friend has argued, the powers of a the more collaborative working that we currently have. mayoral development corporation would be great. The The proposal put forward by my hon. Friend the power of the Mayor to establish new mayoral development Member for Croydon Central, to which my right hon. corporations anywhere across the Greater London area Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark is cast widely, as we discussed extensively in Committee. also referred, is a sensible one. We can consider the Amendment 352 quite rightly seeks to ensure that where details and discuss them sensibly to find a way to take it a Mayor seeks to establish a further mayoral development forward. We have learned from the rather remote model corporation, the majority of the borough councils affected of operation of the earlier development corporations, by such a designation would have to agree to it. The and we want to embed that learning in how we go Opposition do not believe that this would create any forward in future. form of impasse. However, it is important that a borough Even at this late stage, I hope that the Opposition will council with only a small representation in the assembly— think about the necessity of pressing their amendment 352 one that could therefore in no way seek to achieve a to a vote. However, if they really insist, I would ask the two-thirds majority through its assembly representation— House to reject it. should be able to come to agreement with either one or Question put and agreed to. all the other boroughs if another development corporation New clause 21 accordingly read a Second time, and was designated. We agree with my hon. Friend’s added to the Bill. amendment 352 and will support it in a Division. Robert Neill: This has been an interesting and worthwhile New Schedule 2 debate, although I accept that there has been an element ‘TRANSFERS AND TRANSFER SCHEMES: TAX PROVISIONS of déjà vu for some of us. I say that as someone who served on the old Greater London council and who PART found its abolition quite painless, partly because at the TRANSFER UNDER PARAGRAPH 60 OF SCHEDULE16 same time I was serving on the fire authority, the waste regulation authority, the waste disposal authority and 1 (1) For the purposes of any enactment about income tax or corporation tax, the Office and the HCA are to be treated as the the borough council. My hon. Friend the Member for same person. Peterborough (Mr Jackson) is quite right that we created a somewhat convoluted architecture thereafter, which is (2) In particular, the transfer effected by paragraph 60 of Schedule 16 is to be disregarded for those purposes. why it is right to restore as much decision making as we can to London. That is why I am grateful for his (3) Accordingly, that transfer is not to be regarded for the purposes of Part 8 of the Corporation Tax Act 2009 (gains and support for the general thrust of where we are going. losses from intangible fixed assets) as involving any realisation of I understand the point that the hon. Member for an asset by the Office or acquisition of an asset by the HCA. Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) made about the (4) In this paragraph— importance of employment and housing. She is absolutely “enactment” includes an enactment contained in an right about that. I also accept the need to take all the instrument made under an Act, agencies in London along with any such proposal, but I “the HCA” means the Homes and Communities cannot accept her proposition that we cannot trust Agency, and London’s politicians to come to a mature decision on “the Office” means the Office for Tenants and Social the best way forward. Landlords. 387 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 388

PART (b) immediately after the transfer takes effect, the stock is to be treated as trading stock of the transferee, and CERTAIN TRANSFERS UNDER SCHEME UNDER (c) paragraph 3 does not apply in relation to the transfer. SECTION161 OR162 (2) Sub-paragraphs (3) and (4) have effect in calculating for any Interpretation of Part 2 of Schedule corporation tax purpose both— 2 In this Part of this Schedule— (a) the profits of the trade in relation to which the stock is “CTA 2009” means the Corporation Tax Act 2009, trading stock immediately before the transfer takes “public body” means— effect (“the transferor’s trade”), and (a) a person which is a public body for the purposes (b) the profits of the trade in relation to which it is to be of section 66 of the Finance Act 2003 (stamp treated as trading stock (“the transferee’s trade”). duty land tax: transfers involving public bodies), (3) The stock is to be treated as having been— or (a) disposed of by the transferor in the course of the (b) a person prescribed for the purposes of this Part transferor’s trade, of this Schedule by order made by the Treasury, “relevant transfer” means— (b) acquired by the transferee in the course of the transferee’s trade, and (a) a transfer, in accordance with a transfer scheme under section161, to a taxable public body of (c) subject to that, disposed of and acquired when the property, rights or liabilities of the Homes and transfer takes effect. Communities Agency, or (4) The stock is to be valued as if the disposal and acquisition (b) a transfer, in accordance with a transfer scheme had been for a consideration which in relation to the transferor under section162, to a taxable public body, would have resulted in neither a profit nor a loss being brought “taxable public body” means a public body which is into account in respect of the disposal in the accounting period of within the charge to corporation tax, the transferor which ends with, or is current at, the time when the “transferee”, in relation to a transfer in accordance transfer takes effect. with a transfer scheme under section161 or162, (5) In this paragraph “trading stock” has the meaning given by means the person to whom the transfer is made, section 163 of CTA 2009. and Continuity in relation to loan relationships “transferor”— (a) means the Homes and Communities Agency in 5 (1) For the purposes of the application of Part 5 of CTA 2009 relation to a transfer, in accordance with a (loan relationships) in relation to a relevant transfer of rights and transfer scheme under section161, of property, liabilities under a loan relationship to which immediately before rights or liabilities of that Agency, and the transfer takes effect the transferor is a party for the purposes (b) means the London Development Agency in of a trade it carries on, the transferee and the transferor are to be relation to a transfer in accordance with a treated as if at the time of the transfer they were members of the transfer scheme under section162. same group. Computation of profits and losses in respect of transfer of a trade (2) For the purposes of the application of Part 5 of CTA 2009 in relation to a transfer that— 3 (1) This paragraph applies where a taxable public body (“the predecessor”) is carrying on a trade or part of a trade and, as a (a) is to a public body, result of a transfer scheme under section 161 or 162— (b) is in accordance with a transfer scheme under section (a) the predecessor ceases to carry on that trade or part of 161 or 162, and a trade, and (c) is of rights and liabilities under a loan relationship to (b) another taxable public body (“the successor”) begins which immediately before the transfer takes effect the to carry on that trade or part. HCA or LDA is a party otherwise than for the (2) For the purposes of calculating, in relation to the time when purposes of a trade it carries on, the scheme comes into force and subsequent times, the relevant the HCA or LDA, and the person to whom the transfer is trading profits or losses of the predecessor and the successor— made, are to be treated as if at the time of the transfer they were (a) the trade or part is to be treated as having been a members of the same group. separate trade at the time of its commencement and (3) In this paragraph any reference to being members of the as having been carried on by the successor at all times same group is to be read in accordance with section 170 of the since its commencement as a separate trade, and Taxation of Chargeable Gains Act 1992. (b) the trade carried on by the successor after the time (4) In this paragraph— when the scheme comes into force is to be treated as the same trade as that which the successor is treated, “the HCA” means the Homes and Communities by virtue of paragraph (a), as having carried on as a Agency, and separate trade before that time. “the LDA” means the London Development Agency. (3) If a trade or part of a trade is to be treated under this Chargeable gains: disposal on transfer to be treated as no gain/no paragraph as a separate trade, such apportionments of receipts, loss disposal expenses, assets and liabilities are to be made for the purposes of 6 (1) For the purposes of the Taxation of Chargeable Gains computing relevant trading profits or losses as may be just and Act 1992, a disposal constituted by a transfer within sub-paragraph reasonable. (2) is to be treated in relation to the transferor and transferee as (4) This paragraph is subject to the other provisions of this made for a consideration such that no gain or loss accrues to the Part of this Schedule. transferor. (5) In this paragraph “relevant trading profits or losses” means (2) A transfer is within this sub-paragraph if— profits or losses under Part 3 of CTA 2009 in respect of the trade or part of a trade in question. (a) it is a transfer in accordance with a transfer scheme under section 161 of property, rights or liabilities of Transfers of trading stock the Homes and Communities Agency and the transferee 4 (1) This paragraph applies if— is a public body, or (a) under a relevant transfer, trading stock of the transferor (b) it is in accordance with a transfer scheme under section is transferred to the transferee, 162 and the transferee is a public body. 389 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 390

(3) In section 288(3A) of the Taxation of Chargeable Gains (c) the Secretary of State or Mayor of London to be Act 1992 (meaning of the “no gain/no loss provisions”) at the required or permitted, with the consent of the end insert— Treasury, to determine, or to specify the method for “(m) paragraph 6(1) of Schedule [Transfers and transfer determining, anything which needs to be determined schemes: tax provisions] to the Localism Act 2011.” for the purposes of any tax provision so far as relating to anything done for the purposes of, in Stamp duty relation to, or in consequence of, the transfer. 7 Stamp duty is not chargeable on a transfer scheme under (5) In this paragraph— section162 if the transferee is a public body. “relevant tax” means corporation tax, income tax, Modifications of transfer schemes capital gains tax, stamp duty, stamp duty land tax 8 (1) This paragraph applies if— or stamp duty reserve tax, and (a) a company delivers a company tax return, “tax provision” means a provision of an enactment (b) subsequently an agreement is made modifying a about a relevant tax. transfer scheme under section 161 or 162, and (6) In sub-paragraph (5) “enactment” includes an enactment (c) as a result of that, the return is incorrect. contained in an instrument made under an Act.’.—(Robert (2) The return may be amended under paragraph 15 of Schedule Neill.) 18 to the Finance Act 1998 so as to remedy the error, ignoring any Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added time limit which would otherwise prevent that happening. to the Bill. (3) An amendment may not be made in reliance on sub-paragraph (2) more than 12 months after the end of the accounting period of the company during which the agreement is made. New Clause 20 (4) Sub-paragraphs (5) and (6) apply if the company does not amend the return so as to remedy the error before the end of that AUTHORITY MAY BE REQUIRED TO CARRY ON 12 month period. COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES THROUGH A TAXABLE BODY (5) A discovery assessment or a discovery determination may be made in relation to the error, ignoring any time limit which ‘(1) The Greater London Authority Act 1999 is amended as would otherwise prevent that happening. follows. (6) Such an assessment or determination may not be made in (2) After section 34 insert— reliance on sub-paragraph (5) more than 24 months after the end “34A Restriction on exercise of certain powers except of the accounting period mentioned in sub-paragraph (3). through a taxable body (7) Expressions used in this paragraph and in Schedule 18 to (1) The Authority may carry on specified activities for a the Finance Act 1998 have in this paragraph the meaning they commercial purpose only if it does so— have in that Schedule.’. (a) through a company that is a subsidiary of the PART Authority, or (b) in pursuance of an authorisation under section 38(1), TRANSFERS UNDER SCHEME UNDER SECTION171(1) OR through— (4) OR187(1) (i) a body that is specified in section 38(2) and is within 9 (1) In this paragraph “transfer scheme” means a transfer the charge to corporation tax, or scheme under section 171(1) or (4) or 187(1). (ii) a company that is a subsidiary of a body specified (2) The Treasury may by regulations make provision for varying in section 38(2). the way in which a relevant tax has effect from time to time in (2) Subsection (3) applies if— relation to— (a) any property, rights or liabilities transferred in (a) the Authority carries on a specified activity for a accordance with a transfer scheme, or commercial purpose otherwise than as permitted by subsection (1), and (b) anything done for the purposes of, or in relation to, or in consequence of, the transfer of any property, rights (b) the activity is actually carried on by a body (whether or liabilities in accordance with a transfer scheme. the Authority or another) that, disregarding this section, is in respect of the carrying-on of the activity (3) The provision that may be made under sub-paragraph exempt from corporation tax and income tax. (2)(a) includes, in particular, provision for— (a) a tax provision not to apply, or to apply with modifications, (3) The body mentioned in subsection (2)(b) is to be treated in in relation to any property, rights or liabilities transferred; respect of the carrying-on of the activity as not being a local authority for the purposes of— (b) any property, rights or liabilities transferred to be treated in a specified way for the purposes of a tax (a) section 984 of the Corporation Tax Act 2010 provision; (exemption of local authorities from corporation (c) the Secretary of State or Mayor of London to be tax), required or permitted, with the consent of the Treasury, (b) section 838 of the Income Tax Act 2007 (exemption of to determine, or to specify the method for determining, local authorities from income tax), and anything which needs to be determined for the purposes (c) section 271 of the Taxation of Chargeable Gains of any tax provision so far as relating to any property, Act 1992 (exemption of local authorities from capital rights or liabilities transferred. gains tax). (4) The provision that may be made under sub-paragraph (4) In this section— (2)(b) includes, in particular, provision for— (a) a tax provision not to apply, or to apply with “company” means— modifications, in relation to anything done for the (a) a company within the meaning given by section purposes of, or in relation to, or in consequence of, 1(1) of the Companies Act 2006, or the transfer; (b) a society registered or deemed to be registered (b) anything done for the purposes of, or in relation to, or under the Co-operative and Community in consequence of, the transfer to have or not to have Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Act 1965 a specified consequence or to be treated in a specified or the Industrial and Provident Societies Act way; (Northern Ireland) 1969, and 391 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 392

“specified activity” means an activity specified in an Amendment proposed: 352, page 148, line 7, at end order made by the Secretary of State with the insert— consent of the Treasury.” ‘(e) a majority of those London borough councils whose (3) In section 420(8) (orders subject to annulment) after the borough contains any part of the designated entry for section 25 insert— development area agree to the designation.’.—(Heidi “section 34A;”.’.—(Robert Neill.) Alexander.) Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added Question put, That the amendment be made. to the Bill. The House proceeded to a Division.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I ask the Clause 161 Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby. TRANSFER OF PROPERTY OF HOMES AND COMMUNITIES The House having divided: Ayes 222, Noes 310. AGENCY ETC Division No. 280] [3.7 pm Amendments made: 205, page 143, line 31, at end insert— AYES ‘(ba) a company that is a subsidiary of the Greater Abbott, Ms Diane Cunningham, Tony London Authority,’. Abrahams, Debbie Curran, Margaret Amendment 206, page 143, line 38, at end insert— Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Dakin, Nic ‘“company” means— Alexander, Heidi David, Mr Wayne (a) a company within the meaning given by section Ali, Rushanara Davidson, Mr Ian 1(1) of the Companies Act 2006, or Anderson, Mr David Davies, Geraint Austin, Ian De Piero, Gloria (b) a society registered or deemed to be registered Bailey, Mr Adrian Denham, rh Mr John under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Act 1965 Bain, Mr William Dobson, rh Frank or the Industrial and Provident Societies Act Balls, rh Ed Docherty, Thomas (Northern Ireland) 1969;’. Banks, Gordon Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Barron, rh Mr Kevin Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Amendment 207, page 143, line 42, at end insert— Beckett, rh Margaret Doyle, Gemma ‘“subsidiary” has the meaning given by section 1159 of Begg, Dame Anne Dromey, Jack the Companies Act 2006.’.—(Robert Neill.) Bell, Sir Stuart Dugher, Michael Benn, rh Hilary Durkan, Mark Benton, Mr Joe Eagle, Ms Angela Clause 162 Berger, Luciana Eagle, Maria Betts, Mr Clive Edwards, Jonathan Blackman-Woods, Roberta Efford, Clive ABOLITION OF LONDON DEVELOPMENT AGENCY AND Blears, rh Hazel Elliott, Julie TRANSFER OF ITS PROPERTY ETC Blenkinsop, Tom Engel, Natascha Amendments made: 208, page 144, line 8, at end Blomfield, Paul Esterson, Bill insert— Blunkett, rh Mr David Evans, Chris ‘(ba) a company that is a subsidiary of the Greater Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Farrelly, Paul London Authority,’. Brennan, Kevin Field, rh Mr Frank Amendment 209, page 144, line 17, at end insert— Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Fitzpatrick, Jim Brown, Mr Russell Flello, Robert ‘“company” means— Bryant, Chris Flint, rh Caroline (a) a company within the meaning given by section Buck, Ms Karen Flynn, Paul 1(1) of the Companies Act 2006, or Burnham, rh Andy Francis, Dr Hywel (b) a society registered or deemed to be registered Byrne, rh Mr Liam Gapes, Mike under the Co-operative and Community Campbell, Mr Alan Gardiner, Barry Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Act 1965 Campbell, Mr Gregory Gilmore, Sheila or the Industrial and Provident Societies Act Campbell, Mr Ronnie Glass, Pat (Northern Ireland) 1969;’. Caton, Martin Glindon, Mrs Mary Amendment 210, page 144, line 21, at end insert— Chapman, Mrs Jenny Goggins, rh Paul ‘“subsidiary” has the meaning given by section 1159 of Clark, Katy Greatrex, Tom the Companies Act 2006.’.—(Robert Neill.) Clarke, rh Mr Tom Green, Kate Clwyd, rh Ann Greenwood, Lilian Coaker, Vernon Griffith, Nia Clause 168 Coffey, Ann Gwynne, Andrew Connarty, Michael Hamilton, Mr David Cooper, Rosie Hamilton, Fabian DESIGNATION OF MAYORAL DEVELOPMENT AREAS Cooper, rh Yvette Hanson, rh Mr David Amendment made: 212, page 148, line 7, at end insert ‘, Corbyn, Jeremy Harman, rh Ms Harriet (e) the Mayor has laid before the London Assembly, in Crausby, Mr David Harris, Mr Tom accordance with standing orders of the Greater Creagh, Mary Havard, Mr Dai London Authority, a document stating that the Creasy, Stella Healey, rh John Mayor is proposing to designate the area, and Cruddas, Jon Hendrick, Mark (f) the consideration period for the document has expired Cryer, John Hepburn, Mr Stephen without the London Assembly having rejected the Cunningham, Alex Heyes, David proposal.’.—(Robert Neill.) Cunningham, Mr Jim Hillier, Meg 393 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 394

Hodge, rh Margaret Onwurah, Chi Bebb, Guto Field, Mr Mark Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Osborne, Sandra Beith, rh Sir Alan Foster, rh Mr Don Hood, Mr Jim Paisley, Ian Bellingham, Mr Henry Francois, rh Mr Mark Hopkins, Kelvin Pearce, Teresa Benyon, Richard Freeman, George Howarth, rh Mr George Phillipson, Bridget Beresford, Sir Paul Freer, Mike Hunt, Tristram Qureshi, Yasmin Berry, Jake Fuller, Richard Irranca-Davies, Huw Reed, Mr Jamie Bingham, Andrew Gale, Mr Roger Jackson, Glenda Reeves, Rachel Binley, Mr Brian Garnier, Mr Edward James, Mrs Siân C. Reynolds, Emma Birtwistle, Gordon Garnier, Mark Jamieson, Cathy Reynolds, Jonathan Blackman, Bob Gauke, Mr David Jarvis, Dan Robertson, John Blunt, Mr Crispin George, Andrew Johnson, rh Alan Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Boles, Nick Gibb, Mr Nick Johnson, Diana Rotheram, Steve Bone, Mr Peter Gilbert, Stephen Jones, Graham Roy, Mr Frank Bradley, Karen Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Jones, Helen Roy, Lindsay Brady, Mr Graham Glen, John Jones, Mr Kevan Ruddock, rh Joan Brake, Tom Goldsmith, Zac Jones, Susan Elan Sarwar, Anas Bray, Angie Goodwill, Mr Robert Jowell, rh Tessa Seabeck, Alison Brazier, Mr Julian Gove, rh Michael Joyce, Eric Shannon, Jim Bridgen, Andrew Graham, Richard Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Sharma, Mr Virendra Brine, Mr Steve Grant, Mrs Helen Keeley, Barbara Sheerman, Mr Barry Brokenshire, James Gray, Mr James Kendall, Liz Sheridan, Jim Brooke, Annette Grayling, rh Chris Khan, rh Sadiq Shuker, Gavin Bruce, Fiona Green, Damian Lammy, rh Mr David Simpson, David Buckland, Mr Robert Greening, Justine Lavery, Ian Skinner, Mr Dennis Burley, Mr Aidan Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Leslie, Chris Slaughter, Mr Andy Burns, Conor Griffiths, Andrew Lewis, Mr Ivan Smith, rh Mr Andrew Burrowes, Mr David Gummer, Ben Lloyd, Tony Smith, Angela Burstow, Paul Gyimah, Mr Sam Love, Mr Andrew Smith, Nick Burt, Lorely Halfon, Robert Lucas, Caroline Smith, Owen Byles, Dan Hames, Duncan Lucas, Ian Spellar, rh Mr John Cairns, Alun Hammond, rh Mr Philip MacShane, rh Mr Denis Straw, rh Mr Jack Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hammond, Stephen Mactaggart, Fiona Stringer, Graham Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hancock, Matthew Carmichael, Neil Hands, Greg Mahmood, Shabana Stuart, Ms Gisela Mann, John Cash, Mr William Harper, Mr Mark Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Marsden, Mr Gordon Chishti, Rehman Harrington, Richard Tami, Mark McCabe, Steve Chope, Mr Christopher Harris, Rebecca Timms, rh Stephen McCann, Mr Michael Clappison, Mr James Hart, Simon Trickett, Jon McCarthy, Kerry Clark, rh Greg Harvey, Nick McClymont, Gregg Turner, Karl Clegg, rh Mr Nick Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan McDonnell, John Twigg, Derek Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hayes, Mr John McFadden, rh Mr Pat Umunna, Mr Chuka Coffey, Dr Thérèse Heald, Oliver McGovern, Alison Vaz, Valerie Collins, Damian Heath, Mr David McGovern, Jim Walley, Joan Colvile, Oliver Heaton-Harris, Chris McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Watson, Mr Tom Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hemming, John McKinnell, Catherine Watts, Mr Dave Crabb, Stephen Henderson, Gordon Meale, Mr Alan Whitehead, Dr Alan Crockart, Mike Hinds, Damian Mearns, Ian Wicks, rh Malcolm Crouch, Tracey Hoban, Mr Mark Michael, rh Alun Williams, Hywel Davey, Mr Edward Hollingbery, George Mitchell, Austin Williamson, Chris Davies, David T. C. Hollobone, Mr Philip Morden, Jessica Wilson, Sammy (Monmouth) Holloway, Mr Adam Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Winnick, Mr David Davies, Glyn Hopkins, Kris Morris, Grahame M. Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Davies, Philip Horwood, Martin (Easington) Wood, Mike Davis, rh Mr David Howarth, Mr Gerald Dinenage, Caroline Howell, John Munn, Meg Woodcock, John Murphy, rh Mr Jim Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hughes, rh Simon Wright, David Murphy, rh Paul Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Huhne, rh Chris Wright, Mr Iain Murray, Ian Dorries, Nadine Hunter, Mark Nandy, Lisa Tellers for the Ayes: Doyle-Price, Jackie Huppert, Dr Julian Nash, Pamela Phil Wilson and Drax, Richard Hurd, Mr Nick O’Donnell, Fiona Lyn Brown Duddridge, James Jackson, Mr Stewart Duncan, rh Mr Alan James, Margot NOES Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Javid, Sajid Ellis, Michael Jenkin, Mr Bernard Adams, Nigel Baker, Norman Ellison, Jane Johnson, Gareth Afriyie, Adam Baker, Steve Ellwood, Mr Tobias Johnson, Joseph Aldous, Peter Baldry, Tony Eustice, George Jones, Andrew Alexander, rh Danny Baldwin, Harriett Evans, Graham Jones, Mr David Andrew, Stuart Barclay, Stephen Evans, Jonathan Jones, Mr Marcus Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Barker, Gregory Evennett, Mr David Kawczynski, Daniel Bacon, Mr Richard Baron, Mr John Farron, Tim Kelly, Chris Bagshawe, Ms Louise Barwell, Gavin Featherstone, Lynne Kirby, Simon 395 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 396

Knight, rh Mr Greg Raab, Mr Dominic Willott, Jenny Young, rh Sir George Kwarteng, Kwasi Randall, rh Mr John Wilson, Mr Rob Zahawi, Nadhim Laing, Mrs Eleanor Reckless, Mark Wollaston, Dr Sarah Tellers for the Noes: Lamb, Norman Redwood, rh Mr John Wright, Jeremy Michael Fabricant and Lancaster, Mark Rees-Mogg, Jacob Wright, Simon Mr Philip Dunne Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Reevell, Simon Latham, Pauline Reid, Mr Alan Leadsom, Andrea Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Question accordingly negatived. Lee, Jessica Robertson, Hugh Lee, Dr Phillip Robertson, Mr Laurence Clause 168 Lefroy, Jeremy Rogerson, Dan Leigh, Mr Edward Rosindell, Andrew DESIGNATION OF MAYORAL DEVELOPMENT AREAS Leslie, Charlotte Rudd, Amber Amendment made: 213, page 148, line 22, at end Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Ruffley, Mr David insert— Lewis, Brandon Rutley, David ‘(4A) For the purposes of subsection (3)(f)— Lewis, Dr Julian Sanders, Mr Adrian (a) the “consideration period” for a document is the Lidington, rh Mr David Sandys, Laura 21 days beginning with the day the document is laid Lloyd, Stephen Scott, Mr Lee before the London Assembly in accordance with Lopresti, Jack Selous, Andrew standing orders of the Greater London Authority, Lord, Jonathan Shapps, rh Grant and Lumley, Karen Sharma, Alok (b) the London Assembly rejects a proposal if it resolves Macleod, Mary Shelbrooke, Alec to do so on a motion— Main, Mrs Anne Shepherd, Mr Richard Maude, rh Mr Francis Simmonds, Mark (i) considered at a meeting of the Assembly throughout McCartney, Jason Simpson, Mr Keith which members of the public are entitled to be McCartney, Karl Skidmore, Chris present, and McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Miss Chloe (ii) agreed to by at least two thirds of the Assembly McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Henry members voting.’.—(Greg Clark.) McPartland, Stephen Smith, Julian McVey, Esther Smith, Sir Robert Clause 171 Menzies, Mark Soames, Nicholas Mercer, Patrick Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline TRANSFERS OF PROPERTY ETC TO A MAYORAL Metcalfe, Stephen Stephenson, Andrew DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION Mills, Nigel Stevenson, John Amendments made: 214, page 150, line 12, at end Milton, Anne Stewart, Bob insert Moore, rh Michael Streeter, Mr Gary ‘, or Mordaunt, Penny Stride, Mel (c) a company that is a subsidiary of the Greater London Morgan, Nicky Stuart, Mr Graham Authority.’. Morris, Anne Marie Stunell, Andrew Amendment 215, page 150, line 23, at end insert— Morris, David Swales, Ian Morris, James Swayne, Mr Desmond ‘(8A) In subsection (4)(c)— Mosley, Stephen Swinson, Jo “company” means— Mowat, David Swire, rh Mr Hugo (a) a company within the meaning given by section 1(1) Mulholland, Greg Syms, Mr Robert of the Companies Act 2006, or Mundell, rh David Tapsell, Sir Peter (b) a society registered or deemed to be registered Munt, Tessa Teather, Sarah under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Murray, Sheryll Thurso, John Societies and Credit Unions Act 1965 or the Industrial Murrison, Dr Andrew Timpson, Mr Edward and Provident Societies Act (Northern Ireland) Neill, Robert Tomlinson, Justin 1969, and “subsidiary” has the meaning given by Newmark, Mr Brooks Tredinnick, David section 1159 of the Companies Act 2006.’.—(Greg Newton, Sarah Truss, Elizabeth Clark.) Nokes, Caroline Turner, Mr Andrew Norman, Jesse Tyrie, Mr Andrew Clause 187 Nuttall, Mr David Uppal, Paul Offord, Mr Matthew Vara, Mr Shailesh TRANSFERS OF PROPERTY, RIGHTS AND LIABILITIES Ollerenshaw, Eric Vickers, Martin Amendments made: 218, page 158, line 26, at end Ottaway, Richard Walker, Mr Charles insert— Paice, rh Mr James Wallace, Mr Ben Parish, Neil Walter, Mr Robert ‘“company” means— Patel, Priti Watkinson, Angela (a) a company within the meaning given by section 1(1) Paterson, rh Mr Owen Weatherley, Mike of the Companies Act 2006, or Pawsey, Mark Webb, Steve (b) a society registered or deemed to be registered Penning, Mike Wharton, James under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Penrose, John Wheeler, Heather Societies and Credit Unions Act 1965 or the Industrial Percy, Andrew White, Chris and Provident Societies Act (Northern Ireland) 1969;’. Perry, Claire Whittaker, Craig Phillips, Stephen Wiggin, Bill Amendment 219, page 158, line 31, at end insert— Pickles, rh Mr Eric Willetts, rh Mr David ‘(ba) a company that is a subsidiary of the Greater Pincher, Christopher Williams, Mr Mark London Authority,’. Poulter, Dr Daniel Williams, Roger Amendment 220, page 158, line 34, at end insert— Prisk, Mr Mark Williams, Stephen ‘“subsidiary” has the meaning given by section 1159 of the Pritchard, Mark Williamson, Gavin Companies Act 2006.’.—(Greg Clark.) 397 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 398

New Clause 19 (b) provide him with (or secure that he is provided with) advice and assistance in any attempts he may make to CAPITAL RECEIPTS FROM DISPOSAL OF HOUSING LAND secure that accommodation becomes available for his occupation. In section 11 of the Local Government Act 2003 (use of capital receipts by a local authority) after subsection (5) insert— (3) The applicant’s housing needs shall be assessed before advice and assistance is provided under subsection (2)(b). “(6) The Secretary of State and a local authority in England may enter into an agreement with the effect that a requirement (4) The advice and assistance provided under subsection (2)(b) imposed under subsection (2)(b) does not apply to, or is modified must include information about the likely availability in the in its application to, capital receipts of the authority that are authority’s district of types of accommodation appropriate to specified or described in the agreement.”’.—(Andrew Stunell.) the applicant’s housing needs (including, in particular, the Brought up, and read the First time. location and sources of such types of accommodation).”. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for (2B) Omit section 192.’. Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): I Amendment 274, page 111, line 39, leave out ‘two’ beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. and insert ‘five’. Amendment 275, page 112, line 12, leave out ‘two’ Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it and insert ‘five’. will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 3—Disestablishment of an arm’s length Amendment 276, page 112, line 34, leave out management organisation— subsection (6). ‘Schedule [Disestablishment of an arm’s length management Amendment 361, in clause 126, page 113, line 15, at organisation] has effect.’. end insert— New clause 24—Landlord notification of succession of ‘(1A) In preparing its tenancy strategy a local authority must tenancy— ensure that to the greatest extent possible, tenancies granted in its area provide security of tenure so as to support and develop ‘In Schedule 2, Part 3, Ground 16, sub-paragraph (b) of the stable and confident communities.’. Housing Act 1985, after “date”, insert “on which the landlord was notified”’. Amendment 363, page 114, line 19, leave out clause 128. New clause 25—Recovery of a tenancy granted on Amendment 13, page 114, line 36, leave out clause 130. ineligible grounds— Amendment 271, in clause 130, page 115, line 7, at ‘In section 167(8) of the Housing Act 1996, after “scheme”, end insert— insert “and any allocation which is not in accordance with the allocation scheme shall be void and shall not give rise to a ‘(2A) Subsection (2) shall not apply to a secure tenancy if tenancy”’. immediately before the tenancy was granted the person who New clause 26—Housing co-operatives— became the tenant under the tenancy, or in the case of joint tenants, one or more of them was— ‘(1) Schedule 14 of the Housing Act 2004 is amended as follows. (a) a secure tenant of the same or another dwelling-house, or (2) In paragraph 6 insert new sub-paragraph— (b) an assured tenant of a private registered provider of “(3) This paragraph does apply to any building which is owned social housing or a registered social by a fully mutual co-operative housing association as defined by section 1(2) of the Housing Associations Act 1985, the landlord (otherwise than under an assured shorthold management of which is undertaken by general meeting.”.’. tenancy) in respect of the same or Amendment 273, in clause 123, page 108, line 11, another dwelling-house.’. after ‘1985)’, insert Amendment 272, page 116, line 33, leave out from ‘or who have been owed such duties at any time within the beginning to end of line 30 on page 117 and insert— previous five years’. Amendment 360, in clause 124, page 110, line 37, ‘sections 83 to 85A of the Housing Act 1985 shall apply equally to Flexible Tenancies and references to secure tenancies in Clause 124, leave out ‘two’ and insert ‘five’. those sections shall be read accordingly.’. Amendment 270, page 110, line 39, at end insert— Amendment 362, page 116, line 33, after ‘Subject’, ‘(7A) In subsection (7AC) at end, insert— insert “(d) In so far as reasonably practicable, the private rented ‘to the discretion of the court, in circumstances where the tenant sector offer must be within the local housing authority’s has made representations against the granting of possession, not district.”’. to make an order if it considers that order disproportionate, and Amendment 269, in clause 125, page 111, line 33, at subject’. end insert— Amendment 14, page 118, line 19, leave out clause 131. ‘(2A) Omit section 190 and replace with— Amendment 277, in clause 134, page 121, line 36 at “190 Duties to persons becoming homeless intentionally end insert— or who are not in priority need. ‘(c) or P is another member of the tenant’s family and has (1) This section applies where the local housing authority is resided with the tenant satisfied that an applicant is homeless and is eligible for assistance but are also satisfied that he became homeless throughout the period of 12 months ending with the intentionally. tenant’s death.’. (2) The local authority must— Government amendments 191 to 203. (a) secure that accommodation is available for his occupation Amendment 364, page 128, line 35, leave out clause 148. for such period as it considers will give him a reasonable Government amendment 204 opportunity of securing accommodation for his occupation, and Amendment 278, page 130, line 18 leave out clause 153. 399 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 400

New clause 23—Litter deposited from motor vehicles— (2) Where the certificate is in the latter form, the Secretary of State shall not determine the application until the authority ‘In Part IV of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 (litter certify as regards the tenants originally consulted— etc) in section 87 (offence of leaving litter) after subsection (7) insert— (a) that they have vacated the dwelling-house in question, or “(8) Where litter is deposited from a motor vehicle, the person (b) that the requirements of paragraph 3 as to consultation in charge of the vehicle shall, for the purposes of subsection (1) have been complied with; above, be treated as having deposited the litter whether or not he gave any instructions for this to be done. and a certificate under sub-sub-paragraph (b) shall be accompanied by a copy of the notices given by the authority in accordance with (9) The registered keeper of a vehicle shall, for the purposes of paragraph 3. subsection (8) above, be deemed to be the person in charge of the vehicle unless within twenty one days of receipt of the summons Requirements as to consultation for an offence prosecuted by virtue of subsection (8) above the 3 (1) The requirements as to consultation referred to above are registered keeper provides in writing to the prosecutor notification as follows. of such identifying details as are available to him of any other (2) The authority shall serve notice in writing on each tenant person he claims to have been the person in charge of the vehicle informing him or her of— at the relevant time. (a) such details of their proposal as the authority consider (10) For the purposes of subsection (8) above a constable or an appropriate, but including the identity of the person authorised officer of a principal litter authority may by notice in to whom the transfer is to be made; writing served on him, require any person to furnish such information (b) the likely consequences of the transfer for the tenant, specified in the notice as may reasonably be required to ascertain and the person in charge of the vehicle at the relevant time, in such form and within such period, being not less than fourteen days (c) the effect of the provisions of this Schedule and following service of the notice, as is so specified. informing the tenant that he or she may, within such reasonable period as may be specified in the notice, (11) It is an offence for a person, without reasonable excuse to make representations to the authority. fail to comply with any requirement imposed under subsection (10) above.”’. (3) The authority shall consider any representations made to them within that period and shall serve a further written notice New clause 33—Street litter notices— on the tenant informing him or her— ‘(1) In Part 4 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 (litter (a) of any significant changes in their proposal, and etc.) in section 93(2) after “unoccupied” insert “or where there is (b) that the tenant may within such period as is specified multiple occupancy”. (which must be at least 28 days after the service of (2) In Part 4 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 (litter the notice) communicate to the Secretary of State his etc.) in section 94(1)(a) omit “commercial or retail premises” and or her objection to the proposal, insert “premium other than dwellings”. and informing him or her of the effect of paragraph 4. New clause 38—Protection of businesses and non-domestic (4) When a notice has been served under sub-paragraph (3) the users of buildings from complaints— authority shall arrange a ballot of the tenants in accordance with ‘(1) The Environmental Protection Act 1990 is amended as sub-paragraph (5) to establish whether or not the tenants wish follows. the transfer to proceed. (5) The authority shall— (2) After section 80(2) insert— (a) make arrangements for such person as they consider 2AA (1) Except that a local authority must not issue an appropriate to conduct the ballot in such manner as abatement notice to a business, place of worship or other that person considers appropriate; or non-domestic user of land for a statutory nuisance falling within (b) conduct the ballot themselves. section 79(1)(g) if the following conditions are met. (6) After the ballot has been held the authority shall serve a (2) The first condition is that the relevant premises was already notice on each tenant (whether or not he or she voted in the in use for the same purpose at the time when the complainant ballot) informing the tenant— became a local resident, and that such use resulted in a similar noise, and a similar level of noise, at that time. (a) of the ballot result; and (b) if the authority intend to proceed with the transfer, (3) The second condition is that use of the relevant premises that the tenant may within 28 days after the service of complies with the planning permission for that land and other the notice make representations to the Secretary of legislation in force.”.’. State or (as the case may be) the Welsh Ministers. New schedule 1—‘Disestablishment of an arm’s length Consent to be withheld if majority of tenants are opposed management organisation— 4 (1) The Secretary of State shall not give his or her consent if 1 This Schedule applies to the disestablishment of an arm’s length the result of a ballot arranged under paragraph 3(4) shows that a management organisation (ALMO) by a local authority as a majority of the tenants of the dwelling-houses to which the result of which responsibility for the management for housing application relates who voted in the ballot do not wish the previously managed by the ALMO is transferred to the local transfer to proceed; but this does not affect his or her general authority. discretion to refuse consent on grounds relating to whether a 2 (1) The Secretary of State shall not entertain an application transfer has the support of the tenants or on any other ground. for his or her consent to the disestablishment of an ALMO and a (2) In making this decision the Secretary of State may have transfer of management to which this Schedule applies unless the regard to any information available to him or her; and the local authority certify either— authority shall give him or her such information as to the (a) that the requirements of paragraph 3 as to consultation representations made to them by tenants and others; and other have been complied with, or relevant matters, as he or she may require.’. (b) that the requirements of that paragraph as to consultation Government amendments 221, 222, 224 to 252, 256, have been complied with except in relation to tenants 257, 259 to 262, 267 and 268. expected to have vacated the dwelling-house in question before the transfer; Andrew Stunell: The Bill brings forward a package of and the certificate shall be accompanied by a copy of the notices reforms to social housing. Taken together, they strengthen given by the authority in accordance with that paragraph. localism, giving greater flexibility to local authorities 401 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 402

[Andrew Stunell] There are some concerns that I think any sensible observer of the social housing market understands and and to social landlords in providing the needed housing shares. The current market does not work as well as it and the right basic safeguards for tenants. The provisions could. The right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline will allow landlords to make better use of resources, Flint), the shadow Secretary of State, made that point allocating existing homes more sensibly, making sure herself when her party was in government, and the facts that support is better focused and providing the right speak for themselves. There are about 5 million people basic safeguards for tenants. on the social housing waiting list, and a quarter of a The Bill’s provisions include: giving back to local million overcrowded households already in social housing. authorities the freedom to determine who should qualify At the same time, there are 400,000 homes in the social to go on the housing waiting list; new flexible tenancies housing sector in which more than one bedroom is in addition to, rather than replacing, secure and assured under-occupied. tenancies for council and registered social landlord tenants; flexibility to meet the homelessness duty with Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): Will the an offer of accommodation in the private rented sector; Minister make it clear what the disparity between and, perhaps most popular of all, replacing the unpopular overcrowded and under-occupied properties actually housing revenue account subsidy with a devolved system means? Is it not the case that overcrowded accommodation of self-financing. is overwhelmingly concentrated in London and the New clause 19 relates to that, ensuring that the Secretary south-east, while under-occupied property is almost of State may continue to enter into agreements with wholly concentrated in the north of England? How local authorities to determine that specified new homes does the Minister expect those two types of stock to be be exempt from the requirement that most of the receipts matched under his proposals? from any sale under the right to buy should be surrendered to central Government. This will help remove obstacles 3.30 pm to local authorities investing their own resources in new homes. To be clear, new clause 19 preserves an existing Andrew Stunell: I have news for the hon. Lady. As one relaxation in the rule that requires 75% of receipts to be who represents a constituency outside London, I can paid to the Treasury in certain circumstances. tell her that I see both problems. In the last two months, The Government are also taking the opportunity at I have been contacted by a family with three teenagers this stage to make technical improvements with regard living in a two-bedroom house who have little chance of to flexible tenure and succession, which I would like being allocated a larger house in the near future. Meanwhile, briefly to outline. Amendments 202 and 203 exclude many older people, widowed, are under-occupying large shared ownership leases from the landlord repairing three-bedroom houses. I appreciate that, as is often the obligation, in line with established practice and policy. case, London presents a special set of problems, but I do not want the hon. Lady to get away with the mythology Amendments 191 to 201 are needed to rectify drafting that this particular problem does not affect every errors in clauses 134 and 135, which deal with succession constituency. People visit the surgeries of all Members rights. They clarify the original intention that where to discuss it. I hope that the hon. Lady is not seeking to there has not already been a succession, someone who is sweep that under the carpet. not a spouse or partner can succeed where there is an express term in the tenancy agreement to allow it. Ms Buck: The Minister may wish to respond to a The Opposition have tabled a number of amendments. statistical point anecdotally, and of course it is true that Proposals for social housing reform proved to be one of there are individual examples of both problems in almost the more contentious areas of the Bill in Committee, every constituency and part of the country. However, with strongly held views often reflecting points of principle. will he confirm for the record that it is statistically the That is reflected in Opposition amendments 13 and 14 case that the bulk of under-occupation is concentrated as well as in amendments 271 and 272, which would in the north of England while most overcrowding is remove flexible tenure in the one case or, frankly, make concentrated in London and the south-east? Nothing it unworkable in the other. There have been some that we have seen so far in the Bill explains the mechanics misunderstandings over points of detail, so it would be of how it will deal with the problems of overcrowding in good for me to address them. the south-east and under-occupation in the north without Simon Hughes: Before my hon. Friend deals with the need for large numbers of people to be moved. that, will he put it on the record that nothing in the Bill changes the status of any single person who is a tenant Andrew Stunell rose— in a local authority home or a housing association social home in England in respect of security of tenure? Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am Will he also confirm that nothing in the Bill will require sure that the Minister wants to answer that question any local authority or any social landlord to change briefly, but I think that any further interventions should that policy in future—in other words, that the Bill is relate directly to the new clauses and amendments. enabling, not prescriptive, in that respect? Andrew Stunell: Thank you for your guidance, Mr Deputy Andrew Stunell: My right hon. Friend is right on both Speaker. I would have been tempted to talk about our counts. housing investment programme and the impact that our Let me begin by saying that, as I ended up summing affordable rents policy can have on the securing of new up a two-hour debate in 16 seconds yesterday, I hope affordable accommodation, particularly in areas with the House will forgive me if I do my summing up at the high rental values, of which London and the south-east start of today’s debate. is an outstanding example, but as you— 403 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 404

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. I think the Minister is I want to put clearly on the record again that our pushing his luck. As he knows, he will be summing up proposal does not affect any existing tenant, even if the Third Reading debate as well. I think that if he they swap or transfer their home, and even if the person sticks to the new clauses and amendments from now on, they swap with has a flexible tenancy. Our current everyone will be happy. system for social housing is not working as well as it can and should. A one-size-fits-all approach to social tenancies Andrew Stunell: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. does not take account of the different needs of both The housing measures in the Bill will provide greater individual tenants and local communities. A more flexible discretion for social housing landlords and their professional approach is essential. staff. They will relax the rigid rules set by central Government in the past, and together they will allow Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): May I take landlords to exercise greater discretion, adapt the services the Minister back to the scenario he was describing of a they offer to local needs, and manage a valuable public family who move into a three-bedroom house until the resource more effectively in the best interests of local children leave, perhaps to go to university or because people. they get jobs? I am a little confused as to what exactly I recognise that flexible tenure and the proposals to will happen. After the children have left, will a housing deal with homelessness have caused the most concern to officer turn up and tell the parents that they should date. Let me repeat what I said in Committee. In the move out of the property? Based on my experience as a vast majority of cases in which a social landlord offers a councillor, this is what currently happens in such situations: flexible tenancy, we will expect that tenancy to be for at a housing officer goes to the three-bedroom house to least five years. It will often be appropriate to provide visit the person—often an elderly lady—and has a longer—in some instances, lifetime—tenancies. If an conversation with them about perhaps moving to a elderly lady is offered sheltered accommodation or a smaller property, but they may well choose not to do so, bungalow, any sensible landlord will doubtless provide because that is their home. a lifetime tenancy. However, if that family in my constituency with three teenagers in a two-bedroom Andrew Stunell: Under our proposals, gradually over house are finally allocated a three-bedroom house, it a period of time there will be a more diverse pattern of surely makes sense to give them a 10-year tenancy, tenancies for new tenants. There will not be a wholesale subject to renewal. After 10 years, when the children are shift to short-term tenancies however, and social landlords in their twenties and have probably left home and the have clearly indicated that they will remain focused on family’s circumstances have changed, they will have had maintaining sustainable and cohesive communities and time enough to decide whether that is the accommodation providing appropriate periods of stability to tenants. they want. Andrew Percy: Will the Minister give way again? Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab) rose— Andrew Stunell: Just give me a moment. Andrew Stunell: I will give way, but then I must make some progress. Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Give an answer. Alison Seabeck: Does the Minister not accept that the Andrew Stunell: I will give an answer, but I thought it situation he describes will end up involving an amazingly might be useful to give a complete answer, rather than a complex series of different tenures and rents, which will partial one. be a nightmare for housing providers to manage, and that it will clearly lead to the system stagnating at times The provisions already in the Bill and our proposals and being hugely unfair? for a new 10-year standard will be binding on every social landlord, and they contain important protections Andrew Stunell: Of course I do not accept that. A for tenants. Under the new system, the regulator will set housing provider who decides that this is too complex a 10-year standard, the local housing authority will can choose not to take it up. As has been said, we are have to develop a housing strategy, and the registered offering social landlords an additional way to let tenancies, provider will have to publish a tenancy policy. That and they can choose whether or not to take it up. They policy will be drawn up in consultation with tenants, can base that decision on any sensible factor, including and landlords’ decisions on allocating tenancies will their administrative convenience. We propose that five have to be in line with it. A landlord’s decision to end a years should be the minimum term in normal circumstances. tenancy will be subject to appeal—that is in the Bill—and We would expect it to be appropriate to offer less than if the appeal is unsuccessful and the tenant is not five years only in very exceptional cases, and we have satisfied, possession can only be granted by a court So stated in the Bill a two-year lower limit. such a process can never come as a surprise to a tenant. They will have taken that flexible tenancy knowingly, in Mr Raynsford: The Minister has said he would like advance of moving in. If, at the point when the tenancy the five-year limit to be the normal minimum, with is being allocated to them, they do not wish to accept shorter terms only in very exceptional circumstances. the terms and they think them unreasonable, they can Will he therefore tell us why the Bill does not state that, ask for a review of that tenancy before they start. They and why he is proposing to vote against the Opposition will be taking up any flexible tenancy knowing that it is amendment proposing that five years should be the flexible and knowing what the procedures will be subsequent normal minimum term? to their doing so. Andrew Stunell: Yes of course I will, although I will The Government have made it clear that we intend take just a few minutes to reach that point in my that the tenure standards, which the regulator sets out, remarks. will include the guidelines that cover all these matters. It 405 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 406

[Andrew Stunell] Andrew Stunell: No, someone’s fixed-term tenancy is subject to review at the end of the term. There is no is a little perverse that the Opposition’s amendment 363 automatic eviction; the tenancy is subject to review and would take away the Secretary of State’s power to issue the— instructions to the regulator to cover those tenure and mobility standards. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): Will the Minister give way? Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): Will not Andrew Stunell: I will when I finish the sentence, if one of the results of this change be that local authorities that is all right. such as mine in Great Yarmouth will have much more flexibility to manage the housing stock? That will ensure The tenure standard will prescribe what local housing that they do not have problems with the situation that authorities can and cannot include in their housing has been outlined, where people who need a one-bedroom strategy—[Interruption.] At the moment, as the Minister property are in a three-bedroom property and families, for Housing and Local Government is correctly prompting including the ones I deal with in my casework all the me, we have ever-growing waiting lists, with people time, cannot get into properties because they are not unable to access the accommodation that they desperately available. People are being blocked out and this flexibility need. This is a step towards dealing with that problem. will allow local authorities to have better management It is not the only step and it will not be a quick step, but across their housing stock, which will benefit residents it is an important step towards the better allocation of in each area. housing. Andrew Stunell: The hon. Gentleman is right. 3.45 pm This process is not going to be an instant event and a Ms Buck: Going back to the Minister’s assurances miracle cure; it will happen only as re-lets take place that landlords will not adopt the minimum standards of and only then when a social landlord decides that it tenancy and that the approach will be regulated, how wants to implement flexible tenancies for some or perhaps does he explain the fact that Notting Hill Housing all of its tenancies. At the current national rate of wrote to everybody in my constituency on the homeless turnover, which is about 5% a year, the evolution of this waiting list saying that from 1 April it would immediately will be slow. Gradually, it will lead to a better match adopt short-term tenancies at the lowest number of between the needs of tenants and the housing available years permissible? for them. Andrew Stunell: Fortunately, I do not have to take Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): The Minister responsibility for the actions of that body—[HON.MEMBERS: is doing a very good Pontius Pilate impersonation. He is “You do!”] Let us be quite clear that letters can be sent saying, “I’ll wash my hands of it and we will leave it to out by anyone to anyone saying anything. However, others.” But he is leaving it to authorities such as they are only enforceable if they are consistent with the Hammersmith and Fulham council or Notting Hill tenure standards set by the regulator and with the Housing, the second biggest social landlord, which have housing strategy derived from them. Registered providers both said that they will opt for the minimum possible will need to have in place a tenancy policy that is terms for all tenants, including the elderly and the published and drawn up in consultation with tenants. It disabled. What he is allowing as a Liberal Democrat sounds to me very much as though the letter to which Minister—if that means anything—against what many the hon. Lady refers has been sent in advance of any of Liberal Democrats are arguing in constituencies such as those things being in place. It is therefore of no value or mine, is the removal of all the security that people, significance other than that it does something that including the elderly and the disabled, have come to concerns me a great deal about our debate on this depend on. Will he not take a stand on this issue? issue—that is, it serves to whip up misunderstanding and fear among existing tenants that in some way they Andrew Stunell: The hon. Gentleman has not been might be affected by these new proposals. That is absolutely listening, and that is perhaps not unusual. We are not the case. setting tenure standards that the regulator will be imposing, Nic Dakin: I thank the Minister for giving way, as he if that is the correct word, and to which local housing is being very generous. I think the answer to the question authorities must have regard in creating their borough-wide from my constituency neighbour, the hon. Member for housing strategies. In other words, there will not be a Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), is that clearly somebody completely unregulated market and his fears are grossly who has had a 10-year tenancy and brought up their overstated. family can find that when their circumstances change Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): Of course they lose their home. These are homes that people invest one person’s flexibility is somebody else’s inflexibility—in in; they are not simple utilitarian houses. this case, we are talking about the authorities and, Andrew Stunell: No, that is not correct. Let us be potentially, the tenant respectively. Will the Minister clear that the tenure standards will provide specific confirm that he is saying what I think he is saying? Let protection for the vulnerable. We have already said that us suppose that somebody has secured a flexible tenancy in our response to the consultation, and the consultation while their children are living with them and those responses themselves show that the vast majority of children then leave home. Is it possible that such a landlords will provide longer terms. person could find themselves in court and being thrown out of their home because a local authority wants the Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): Does the house back? Is that honestly the situation that we are Minister have any practical examples? He has talked creating? about long waiting lists for family houses, but there are 407 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 408 actually long waiting lists for pensioners’ accommodation, “suitable” he also means “local”? The biggest issue for too. If a couple in their 60s, whose children have left my constituents is being placed far away from their home, were on a flexible tenancy, the local authority friends, family, schools and jobs, outside London, based could ask them to move. If no pensioner accommodation on the excuse of the cost of property. If that is for two was available, as bungalows are in very short supply in years, it might be sustainable, but if it is for ever it will many areas, that couple could be forced to move into a not be. Will he deal with those two points? block of flats where the majority of people were young single people or young couples with a completely different Andrew Stunell: Yes, I certainly will. I hope that the lifestyle. Is that the sort of situation that he envisages? If hon. Gentleman does not mind if I do so in sequence, not, will he say precisely where in the guidelines it states but I will respond. that the regulator will stop a local authority or housing We need to keep a realistic view of the private rented association doing that? sector and the impact of welfare reform. I recognise that there are some concerns and I am prepared to Andrew Stunell: The tenure standards will set that consider further the need for additional protections for out, the housing strategy of the local housing authority homeless households placed in the private rented sector. will reinforce it and the tenancy policy of the provider, The Secretary of State already has powers to set out in if it is not the housing authority itself, will also set it secondary legislation the circumstances in which out. accommodation is or is not to be regarded as suitable and to specify other matters that are to be taken into I want to make some progress and move on to a account or disregarded when determining suitability. I second issue that is, I know, of real concern to Members: am prepared to consider using those powers for the the provisions on homelessness. Much of the debate on provision of additional protections on standards of our homelessness proposals started off from the proposition accommodation or other matters. that private rented landlords are a rogue sector and incapable of offering decent quality accommodation to Diligent readers of the Bill will know that there are those families who might benefit from it. I made it clear already important safeguards. Any offer has to have in Committee, as has my right hon. Friend the Minister regard to the health and welfare of the tenant, social for Housing and Local Government on a number of impacts and affordability for the tenant. Existing legislation occasions, that the draft legislation includes a number is already clear that any loss of income outside the of safeguards that together provide reassurances that control of the tenant cannot create intentional homelessness. an offer of private accommodation would be made only That would be unintentional homelessness and so the when it is reasonable to do so and when the accommodation duty to deal with that situation would remain with the is suitable for the needs of the household. local authority. The accommodation has to be suitable, or fit for purpose. On the point that the hon. Member It is important to go back to why we are making the for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter) made, existing housing changes in the first place. It is not because we want to legislation says that as far as the local housing authority make the plight of homeless families worse, but because is concerned location must be in the local district so far we want to make their situation better. In London, the as is reasonably practicable. average stay in temporary accommodation of resettled homeless families before they get a permanent offer of Ms Buck: I am grateful to the Minister, who is being social home accommodation is two years. The impact extremely generous in giving way. In central London, of that time on schooling, quality of life, health and which is obviously important to me as a central London stress is not acceptable and needs to be tackled. I agree MP, the changes in housing benefit mean that only with the hon. Member for Westminster North (Ms Buck) 7% of the entire central London broad market rental that this probably is not a countrywide problem, and I area for housing benefit or local housing allowance suspect that my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley purposes will be accessible to individuals on that benefit. (Gordon Birtwistle) does not have the problem because How then can any central London authority obtain he has 2,500 empty houses to begin with, but in places accommodation, as a reasonable discharge of duty, in of high housing stress it is a real problem. That is why the private rented sector when there is no accommodation we are making these proposals. to be obtained? In Committee and elsewhere, hon. Members have Andrew Stunell: The hon. Lady speaks of 7%. That raised a number of concerns about the homelessness was her figure; I do not know whether it is exactly right, measures. Some of those focused on standards of but a proportion of the rental market will be affordable. accommodation in the private rented sector, the interplay Those who are in temporary accommodation in her that there might be with housing benefit changes and borough or whose homelessness arises in her borough related issues of affordability. There were also concerns are being shunted around. We want to end that regime about the location of those private rented sector homes and have people permanently established in their borough and whether there might be some loophole in creating in accordance with the legislation. We believe that our intentional homelessness. I want to respond to each of measure will achieve that. those points in due course. Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): My Mr Slaughter: Before the Minister moves on, will he hon. Friend seems to suggest that there are protections deal with two points regarding what he has said so far? in the Bill already for people discharged into the private First, how is it an improvement to go from an average rented sector, but there is a role that secondary legislation two-year wait for permanent accommodation to never can play. When I pressed the point in Committee, in the getting permanent accommodation and staying perpetually context of the viability of a national accreditation in the private rented sector? Secondly, I assume, but will scheme for landlords to ensure standards—not just in he confirm this on the record, that in his definition of relation to suitability and size, but taking account of 409 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 410

[Stephen Gilbert] have a starry-eyed vision of social housing, when compared with the private rented sector, that blinds us to the the types of lease offered and whether repairs are done essential reality we are trying to tackle, which is that the in a timely way—the Government did not seem keen to average stay in temporary accommodation for homeless pursue it. If that already exists de facto, can it not be families in London is two years. That is unacceptable brought together in a legal sense? and this reform puts us on the way to ending it.

Andrew Stunell: My hon. Friend makes an important 4pm point, which he made in Committee. As he knows, there are a number of local accreditation schemes and in Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Does the some boroughs it is a requirement that the landlords of Minister not agree, however, that for many people the tenants who receive housing benefit in their area are attraction of the housing association or council sector members of an accreditation scheme of one sort or is security of tenure and the fact that they can settle, another. I will take stock of his point. The Government rather than living in the private rented sector, where are not minded to introduce a national scheme, but they will always have a sword hanging over their head there may be aspects that he is rightly drawing to our because the landlord may decide to end the tenancy at attention for further consideration. any moment? It is not just about the relative qualities of the properties, but about people’s sense of security. Simon Hughes: I was reassured by my hon. Friend’s words about the Government’s intention that people Andrew Stunell: I understand the hon. Lady’s concern, should not have to move outside the district or community. but I think that it undervalues the history of tenants in The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has given the private rented sector. There is certainly a lot of a similar reassurance. There is particular concern in churn, but there are also many people who spend long Greater London because of the acute pressure on property, periods in very successful private rented sector property prices and so on. I am sure my hon. Friend is accommodation. We must be careful not to generalise aware that his right hon. Friend has agreed, together and should recognise that, if there is a need as a result with, I hope, the responsible Minister at the Department of a tenancy breaking down, the duty on the authority for Work and Pensions, Lord Freud, to meet to see to deal with that situation remains in the Bill and is part whether, across parties and with the Mayor of London, of the protection that tenants have. the housing associations and local authorities, the remaining concerns can be alleviated. I hope my hon. Friend and Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): Does my hon. his colleagues will give full assistance to that measure as Friend agree that the Government could perhaps do a the Bill proceeds from this place to the other end of the little more to look at other ways of encouraging the building. private sector to offer longer tenancies—for example, through more work on real estate investment trusts—so Andrew Stunell: Yes. Perhaps my words were a little that people can invest in property in a way that is more too opaque a little while ago when I said that we are long term, rather than having buy-to-let properties with prepared to consider the need for additional protections one or two landlords, which I think is the sort of thing for homeless households. Clearly, what my right hon. that concerns Opposition Members? That might offer Friend has just set out forms part of that process. some assistance and I would like the Government to do more on that. Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): Two unitary county councils have been established in the north-east of Andrew Stunell: Yes, I entirely agree that there is England in the recent past which are now the housing scope for innovative solutions. It is by no means the authorities. The right of a tenant to stay within the Government’s position that in a majority of cases it will housing authority area becomes meaningless in the be appropriate for social landlords to follow this route, context of a county that provides housing, because the but where it is clear that there is an obvious disadvantage county can be 40 or 50 miles from border to border. If to tenants who are stuck in the temporary accommodation no housing is available in the immediate neighbourhood, loop, it is surely right to take steps to deal with that the right to stay within the county means that a tenant more effectively, and I hope that the House will agree. may have to move many miles away. The homelessness code of guidance provides that the location of accommodation will be relevant to the Andrew Stunell: I take stock of what the hon. Gentleman suitability of the tenancy and that the appropriateness says. My hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and of the location relates to all members of the household, Newquay (Stephen Gilbert) might want to make a who must all be considered. Employment, schooling, similar point. Perhaps that is one for us to consider and family and social connections are all relevant matters more fully. that will be taken into account. The existing legislation requires local housing authorities New clause 3 and new schedule 1 relate to changes in to locate people within their district so far as reasonably the governance of arm’s length management organisations, practicable. The homelessness code of guidance sets out and I hope that I can be helpful to hon. Members as far all the factors that it is right and appropriate for housing as that is concerned. New clause 3 would oblige all authorities to take into account. Those of us who see councils with ALMOs to undertake a statutory ballot real life at constituency level know full well that when of their tenants and seek the consent of the Secretary of those families eventually get their social housing offer, it State before an ALMO can be closed down. I have is seldom in the plum house on the smart estate. It is listened to the comments that have been made and read more likely to be the bottom flat in the hard-to-let block the amendment and the briefing from the organisation. on the least desirable estate in town. I hope we do not I am sympathetic to a number of the arguments put 411 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 412 forward, particularly the need to protect tenants and By a quirk of the legislation, they are caught by the have a consistent consultative model for ALMOs in houses in multiple occupation requirement for licensing cases where local authorities are minded to change their and, sometimes, planning permission. The Department status and take them back in house. has been lobbied by the Friendly Housing Action campaign For those councils that hold a ballot before establishing group to secure an exemption for fully mutual housing an ALMO, it seems reasonable that they should hold a co-operatives, and I am very sympathetic to the campaign, ballot when they are minded to wind up such an as such organisations were never intended to be caught organisation. I understand that of the 61 ALMOs that by the licensing provisions. are currently extant, around 30 were formed following We have to be careful to ensure that in granting an such ballots. The principle of “ballot in, ballot out” exemption we do not inadvertently allow other categories does not seem a bad one to hold on to. For those to slip through the loophole, so I am asking for further councils that did not hold a ballot, our departmental advice on how we might achieve that. I hope to return guidance already stipulates that they should consult to the issue at a later stage, so I hope that my hon. widely with tenants before an ALMO is wound up. It Friends will not feel the need to press new clause 26 to a does not stipulate what specific format the consultation Division. should take. I have asked my officials to look again at I thank the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View that guidance and the options for strengthening it so (Alison Seabeck) for new clauses 25 and 24, which she that all tenants can be assured of their rights. and her hon. Friends have tabled. They both relate to Stephen Gilbert: I welcome the commitment to “ballot cases in which courts made decisions that the common-sense in, ballot out” in the disestablishment of ALMOs, but man would not have expected. New clause 25 refers to a the principle should be to give the 50% or so of ALMOs situation in which the housing allocation scheme was that are left—the 30 to which my hon. Friend referred—as perverted—I think that is the right word—by an officer, much power as possible to set their own destiny, rather and consequently the courts decided that, because of than being buffeted about by the will of the local the nature of the current legislation, it was not possible authority. May I strongly impress upon my hon. Friend to recover the properties that had been misallocated. I the fact that a ballot for all ALMOs seeking am certainly minded to take some steps in the right disestablishment would be very welcome? direction. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government recently launched a 10-point plan Andrew Stunell: I understand that that would be very for tackling council fraud, and that included vetting welcome, but at the moment I am not convinced of the staff. I hope that that means that it is very unlikely that need for councils to follow that rule. I remind my hon. the situation will recur, but we are going to look at how Friend that ALMOs are completely the creatures of we might move forward. On a rather significant technical local government, but the tenant participation in ALMOs point, the place where Opposition Members have chosen is a positive feature. The ALMO covering my constituency to insert the words means that the provision would works well and is well regarded, but even so it is a apply only to Wales; I suspect that that is not what they matter for the local authority. It is not appropriate for a really meant to do. Minister or the Secretary of State to get in the driving New clause 24 deals with a situation where a death seat, but it is right for us to give careful consideration to was concealed at the transfer of a tenancy and therefore the guidance, particularly on the ballot point. a vital time line was missed and it then proved impossible to correct that. The new clause changes the time limit Mr Betts: I follow the hon. Member for St Austell restrictions so that when a local authority seeks to and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert) in his request for a repossess a property, the date at which it became aware ballot in all cases, because that would give us the of the change in circumstances, rather than the actual security of a proper consultation. Changing so date of the circumstances, will be relevant. I fully accept fundamentally the management of a tenant’s home is the point drawn to our attention. We will explore the almost as important as changing its ownership, and we issue in more detail and talk to various local authorities should give weight to that. If the Minister is not prepared and representative bodies with a view to tabling a to go that far, but is simply going to look at “ballot in, Government amendment in the other place. I hope that ballot out”, which at least would be a step forward, and the hon. Lady feels that that is a helpful way for us to again at the guidance on consultation, will he have a proceed. real look at how the guidance might be underpinned statutorily so that, before an ALMO is allowed to be I cannot be so consensual on other amendments changed and moved back into a local authority, the tabled by the Opposition. I do not want to detain the Secretary of State can insist that real consultation takes House unduly, but I must say that we have a considerable place and tenants’ views are listened to? That does not mixture of amendments of one type or another, to happen at the moment. which I will perhaps respond to in my final 16 seconds, if that is how it turns out. Some of them are direct Andrew Stunell: Yes. It is important that we review negatives of our proposals in the Bill, some are wrecking the guidance—I just said that we should do so—and it amendments to one degree or another, and some are would be an unusual local authority that disregarded it. quite seductive in their tone, if not their impact. Several I undertake to reflect further on the best way forward, of them duplicate safeguards that are already in the Bill and I hope that my hon. Friends and the hon. Gentleman or even in legislation as it has stood for some time. feel that that is a step forward which allows them not to Some of the amendments seem to be based on an press their amendments today. Opposition view that social landlords are even worse My hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Withington than they think private landlords are, with their principal (Mr Leech) has tabled new clause 26, which relates to a business being to get people out of their homes as specific situation for fully mutual housing co-operatives. quickly as possible. Of course, that is not the primary 413 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 414

[Andrew Stunell] long and will be granted a tenancy for as little as two years. Tenants whose financial circumstances improve purpose or intention of social landlords, which is to above an arbitrary level will potentially be told to pack provide suitable accommodation for those who need it, up and move on. as will continue to be the situation in future. Other As a result of the complexity of the system that is amendments seem to be more about whipping up being brought forward, which will be a bureaucratic misunderstanding among vulnerable families than about nightmare, a household in a three-bedroom house could making a contribution towards solving the heartrending pay less rent and have greater security than a household problems of homelessness. next door in a two-bedroom flat. Frankly, that will be I urge hon. Friends and other Members to support divisive. We all have people who come to our constituency the Government’s sensible and thoughtful proposals surgeries and say, “We don’t understand why so-and-so and to reject the many temptations offered by the has higher priority than me.” These proposals will add a Opposition. further layer to that and will be problematic. We heard in the run-up to the announcement on the Alison Seabeck: I repeat the declaration I made at the military covenant—I digress a little, but this is housing- start of the Public Bill Committee, which is on the related—about how difficult it is for military families to record. have to move every couple of years. That often happens I thank all those involved in Committee proceedings and I see it a lot at the naval base. Only this week in on this large and extensive Bill, including the two very questions, the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, patient Chairs, my hon. Friend the Member for York the right hon. Member for South Leicestershire Central (Hugh Bayley) and the hon. Member for Southend (Mr Robathan), said that he had spoken with the Minister West (Mr Amess). Although we had well-informed for Housing and Local Government on this issue. The discussions in Committee—Members on both sides of Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. the House are to be commended—I am left with the Member for South Leicestershire has said in the past feeling that we could have done with significantly more that this instability is unacceptable and that soldiers, time to debate the issues. sailors and airmen need and deserve help to protect the Yesterday, the Minister started by saying that the stability of their families’ homes and education. Committee was consensual—not so on the housing However, the message from the Department for proposals, I am afraid. We debated more than Communities and Local Government to all families in 40 amendments and new clauses on this part of the Bill, social housing is, “Get a better job and you will lose and not one was accepted by Government Front Benchers. your home. Invite your partner to move in with you and Although I welcome the moves that the Minister has start a family, and you will put your home at risk.” At a made today on a couple of our proposals, I do not get a time when we want people to do their best to get on in sense that he is giving any ground. Indeed, having life, and to build something better for themselves and listened to his speech and responses, I think he is rather their families, this is the wrong policy. Labour will stand digging in; of course, that is his prerogative. up for people who strive and who put the hours in to The Opposition cannot let these proposals go better their lot. What will happen to people who fall unchallenged. I will therefore speak to amendments foul of the new Tory rules and are told to leave their 269, 270, 273 to 276 and 360, new clauses 24 and 25, council or housing association home simply because and amendments 13, 14, 271, 272, 277 and 278, which they have worked hard if they subsequently lose their stand in my name and those of my hon. Friends. I flag it job or fall ill and are unable to work? What will their up at this stage, given that the Minister has not astounded entitlement be then? They will go to the back of the us with a number of U-turns, that we will press for votes queue and start all over again. Where is the incentive to on amendment 13 on flexible tenancies and on work and where is the fairness? amendment 271 on security of tenure. In Committee, we received a powerful submission from a young woman called Jessica Sim, who lives in social housing. Her experience will be mirrored by 4.15 pm many other tenants. She said: New clause 19, which will allow local authorities to “To get an affordable secure home was a great incentive to keep capital receipts relating to right-to-buy sales, is pursue my career. I also spent a great deal of time and money welcomed by the Opposition, although we would like to improving my council home and garden…and getting involved in see more detail. We understand that it involves the my community association to improve the area, knowing that we removal of the ring fence around the proceeds from could stay.” sales of land or property in that account. That raises the She went on: concern that that money could be moved away from “What if the people who are kicked out lose their job or get fed meeting housing need. up being hardly better off working? Back on housing benefit, The Government’s proposals on housing and back in the queue, the bill will be enormous. Families have a homelessness are deeply damaging, and none more so better chance if they have a secure place to live. Moving people on than the proposal to end security of tenure in social does not solve a shortage of housing.” housing. That will create two classes of tenant in social She rightly identified that to solve the housing crisis, the housing. There will be great uncertainty, because there Government need to build more homes. Their policy will be different lengths of tenure and different levels of seems to be aimed at trying to solve the shortage of rent, with little rational relationship between the two. social housing by allowing everyone a year or two in a There will be a divide between those who have been social home before moving them on. Ministers seem to fortunate enough to get security of tenure in their social have failed to realise that to house people we need not housing, and those who have been made to wait for too to give them shorter tenancies but to build homes. 415 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 416

What will be the consequences of that policy of Friend the letter from Notting Hill Housing that I limiting social housing so that it is not available to those mentioned, which I have now obtained? It states: who work hard to build something for themselves, or to “The Government have recently set out their plans for the those who invest in their homes and communities? future of social housing. Up until now, this has been known as What will happen when we reduce estates to being areas permanent housing. New homes will be let with fixed-term tenancies that people pass through at their most vulnerable point for a minimum of two years”. and transitional communities of the most deprived? We It finishes: will go back almost to the state of social housing in the “Since permanent housing will no longer be available, these first half of the last century, when access to it was changes will affect everyone seeking housing from April 2011.” limited by law to the “working classes”. That term was Does that not indicate that the Minister was completely only ever defined once in legislation, in paragraph (12)(e) wrong in the assurances that he gave? of the schedule to the Housing of the Working Classes Act 1903, as those Alison Seabeck: That is clear evidence of the case that “whose income in any case does not exceed an average of thirty shillings a week”. we are trying to make. There is always a risk, when minimum standards are set, that eventually everybody In today’s money, that would be an annual income of will end up at that level. Clearly some people want to just over £7,000. Mean as the Government are, I do not move more quickly than others in that direction. expect them to set a threshold as low as that, which would make them comparable with Tory Governments Let us not forget that there is a stronger localist voice of the late 19th and early 20th century. However, the if a range of interests are represented in an area. message that their change will send is the same now as it Amendment 271 is intended to address the threat in the was then: that social housing is for the poor. It is to Bill to take security of tenure away from existing social segregate people from other sections of society that are tenants. That is something of a sore point for the seen as doing better. Government, because the Bill represents just another broken promise. Before the general election, the now It has been more than 62 years since the House Prime Minister’s spokesman was briefing the media decided, without a Division, to accept that segregating that the Tory party had no plans to alter security of social housing off for just one deprived section of tenure. The Liberal Democrat manifesto said nothing society was entirely wrong. In that debate, Aneurin on the subject, and the Housing and Local Government Bevan said—it is as true now as it was then—that it was Minister spent only about 10 minutes in the Chamber “entirely undesirable that on modern housing estates only one on Report. type of citizen should live…that from one sort of township should come one income group and from another sort of township another income group…if we are to enable citizens to lead a full Clive Efford: Some of us who fought very hard on the life, if they are each to be aware of the problems of their issue of secure tenancies and the future of rents at the neighbours, then they should be all drawn from the different last election were accused of scaremongering and lying. sections of the community”. The Conservatives’ election manifesto explicitly states The principle of mixed communities in social housing, that they will in which the Labour party should take great pride, was “respect the tenures and rents of social housing tenants.” welcomed at that time by the Tory Front-Bench spokesman, Ministers have made promises today on respecting the the Member for Hertford. He said: future of tenancies and rents, but how can we believe “It is, of course very desirable that the black-coated workers”— them when the Conservatives said that in their general administrative workers— election manifesto and wrote it off so soon afterwards “should not be shut out from the benefit of local authority in the coalition agreement? housing accommodation.”—[Official Report, 16 March 1949; Vol. 462, c. 2126-38.] Alison Seabeck: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I am only sorry that the wisdom of Churchillian During the general election, we fought and battled hard conservatism, such as it was, has not carried through to throughout the country to get those assurances from coalition Cameronism. the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, but they are Sixty years on, the idea that this country is stronger now reneging on them. It is as simple as that. when its communities are more diverse, and that its society is more cohesive when it comprises of a broad Simon Hughes: I am very clear that secure tenancies and mixed swathe of people, is no longer supported by are a good thing, that council housing is a good thing, the Conservative party. Nor is it supported by the and that housing association properties are often good Liberal party, whose MPs did not oppose the measures things—they are not always as good as council properties. in this Bill in Committee despite trying to raise their Will the hon. Lady confirm that the proposal does not concerns by tabling amendments. They consistently affect secure tenants? Does she now accept that? Will withdrew those amendments without a vote. Just where she also confirm that the proposal affects people only in is their fabled voice in government and their backbone? future, and that it gives discretion to local authorities? We still believe in mixed communities in social housing, If there were any Government imposition on local underpinned by security of tenure, which the Bill targets authorities, I would not support the proposal for one so directly. second, but the proposal gives discretion.

Ms Buck: Earlier, the Minister assured us that there Alison Seabeck: If the right hon. Gentleman will would be regulations to protect secure tenants—he allow me, I shall address some of those points later in mentioned a period of five years and, I believe, used the my speech. I find the Liberal Democrat position quite word “scaremongering”. May I share with my hon. extraordinary. 417 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 418

[Alison Seabeck] councils, but no Labour councils—are already saying they want to introduce this proposal quickly. The system The Liberal Democrat manifesto said nothing on the allows for discretion, but the evidence suggests that it issue, and as I pointed out, the Housing and Local will not be used, and that Hammersmith and Fulham, Government Minister, who is sadly no longer in the Westminster and other councils will simply say, “Sorry, Chamber—he obviously has more interesting things to no!” If someone chooses to move—the key point is the do than listen to a debate on housing—said that choice—they will probably find themselves with a higher “there is no chance of, or way in which, a social tenancy can be rent and a shorter tenure. These proposals contain no broken or changed for anybody already in council or housing guarantees and are inadequate, which is why we tabled association homes.”—[Official Report, 28 February 2011; Vol. 524, our amendments. We need to consider the tenants. The c. 19.] council in Southwark could become a Conservative In November, I asked the Minister of State, Department council in the future— for Communities and Local Government, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) whether he Simon Hughes: It’s unlikely. would give me his personal guarantee that secure tenancy rights would not be changed. He gave a brief, direct Alison Seabeck: Perhaps, but the point is that there is answer: “Yes.” If only the Bill that those Ministers now clearly an appetite among Conservative councils for promote were consistent with their previous statements making use of this provision, offering the minimum in the House. they need to and removing security of tenure from The framework published by the Department is quite people who choose to move. clear that tenancies will be secure only for tenants who It is not a choice I would wish on any family, and it have a secure tenancy before 31 March 2012. Therefore, will create disincentives to move within the sector by tenants with a secure tenancy will lose their security if throwing sand in the wheels. We need to make it easier their family grows and they need to move to a larger for people to move within the sector, yet the Government’s home, or if a person wishes to downsize to a smaller proposals will make it harder. If the Government press home and the only properties available for re-let are ahead and create this dog’s breakfast of a flexible offered on a flexible tenancy. tenancy, we want them to stick to their promise not to The Homes and Communities Agency is clear that break secure tenancy rights of existing tenants, even if the expectation is for both flexible tenancies and affordable they choose to move. I and my right hon. and hon. rents in re-lets and new developments. In future, those Friends raised this issue with the Minister in Committee families will have an absolutely impossible choice. Do during the stand part debate on clause 132. He revealed they stay in a home that is no longer suitable for their that the previous guarantees given by his ministerial needs, leaving them overcrowded but with the security colleagues were worthless, when he said that the decision they crave and a rent they can afford, or do they accept on whether tenants would keep their security of tenure the move to a larger home, lose their security, and risk would rest with the discretion of the landlord, but that losing their home altogether if they are deemed no “if a tenant chooses to move to an affordable rent property, it is longer to meet the eligibility criteria for social housing, reasonable that discretion should be available to the landlord as which could happen two years down the line? to whether that remains in place”.––[Official Report, Localism Public Bill Committee, 8 March 2011; c. 856.] Simon Hughes indicated dissent. For us, that is simply not good enough. It does not retain security of tenure, and gives landlords a degree of Alison Seabeck: The right hon. Gentleman sits there flexibility that we think is negative for tenants. That is and shakes his head, but there are enough questions why we oppose it. I am disappointed that amid the 234 about this measure. The Minister had four goes at Government amendments and new clauses there is no answering those points in Committee, but his answers amendment to match their rhetoric. That is why we were not entirely satisfactory. I urge the right hon. tabled amendment 271. The Government might not be Gentleman either to abstain on Government new clause 19, willing or able to stand up for the rights of existing or to come into the Lobby with the Opposition. tenants, but the Labour party certainly is. Amendment 277 is similar to an amendment debated Simon Hughes: I appreciate that this is very serious briefly in Committee at the end of a morning sitting. At and I am listening very carefully to the hon. Lady—I do the time, the Minister said that clause 134 was part of a not doubt her commitment. I am open to correction, cleaning-up exercise, to which I said we would leave but my understanding is that in the circumstances she things there and consider whether we needed to come describes, when somebody needs to move from a council back to the issue on Report. As the House of Commons home because their family has grown, it does not necessarily Library rightly points out, the clause removes the statutory follow that they will be unable to be offered a secure right of those other than spouses and partners to succeed tenancy where they go to. If Southwark council kept to a secure tenancy. Currently, in the absence of a secure tenancies for all its council stock, people would spouse or partner, the close relatives of a secure tenant move to a secure tenancy if they moved to another who have resided in a dwelling as their only or principal council property. Will the hon. Lady please at least home for 12 months prior to the tenant’s death also accept that that option will be just as possible next year have a right to succeed to the tenancy. as it is this year? Our amendment would extend statutory succession rights beyond spouses and civil partners, to those who 4.30 pm have acted as live-in carers for at least one year and Alison Seabeck: The right hon. Gentleman makes a siblings who have co-habited for at least one year. point about Southwark council, but evidence suggests Carers contribute an enormous amount to society and that significant numbers of councils—largely Conservative to those—almost always close family members—for 419 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 420 whom they care. We will all know of cases in our right to complain directly, as they can now. The National constituencies in which family members have moved Housing Federation represents landlords, who possibly into their parents’ or other relatives’ homes to act as have the most to lose from the change, yet they are very carers. It is an act of love that can place tremendous relaxed about allowing tenants that direct link. strain on the carers, and the commitment it requires New clauses 24 and 25 seek to clamp down on should not be underestimated. Nor, on a more transactional loopholes in housing law that can be exploited by level, should the amount of money they save the Treasury fraudsters and to deal with the issue of fairness—on be underestimated. Age UK, in its submission to the which the Minister, he say yes! I am grateful to him for Bill Committee, wrote: acknowledging that we brought to his attention something “Given the contribution of carers, they deserve to succeed to a on which he thinks he can build. I look forward to tenancy or have an offer of alternative social housing with a seeing further amendments in the other place. When it lifetime tenancy.” comes to fairness in the allocation of homes and the transparency of the process, we felt that the local authorities Andrew Stunell: Does the hon. Lady accept that the in the cases that we highlighted needed a right of Bill will give registered landlords the opportunity to redress. Neither case is sub judice. They were highlighted have tenancy agreements that allow carers to succeed to for us by Arden Chambers, and they are Birmingham v. a tenancy even if they are not related to the person Qasim and Newport v. Charles. We would be grateful if holding the original tenancy? The Bill will give landlords both cases could be looked at in detail and amendments that flexibility for the first time, not take anything away. brought forward. There are a host of issues concerning homelessness Alison Seabeck: Yet again, this is all about discretion that, given enough time, deserve to be debated properly and saying, “Trust us.” I am afraid that we would like to on the Floor of the House. However, given the constraints see something clearer in the Bill. on Report, it is neither appropriate nor possible to give Live-in siblings is another area where there should them another airing or vote on them all, as we did in also be statutory succession. Once again, we can all Committee. I am sure that a number of those issues will look at our constituency experience. During the passage be raised again in another place, given the depth of of the Civil Partnership Act 2004, the Conservative expertise there. In Committee, we sought a requirement Front-Bench spokesman said: for better standards in the private rented sector—a “It is profoundly unfair that carers and siblings who cohabit point touched on by the hon. Member for St Austell are disadvantaged on the death of one or other of them by being and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert)—through proposals forced out of their home by their tenancy terms”.—[Official for an accreditation scheme. I would support any move Report, 12 October 2004; Vol. 425, c. 188.] in the other place to resurrect that and look at it in more That legislation was the wrong place for that debate. detail. This Bill is the right place, and our amendments would address the issue. Something else that ought to be Stephen Gilbert: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for addressed, and which we sought to address in Committee, indicating her party’s support for such a proposal. It is the right of unmarried couples. I am pleased that the could be quite transformative if the Government, while Government seem to have shelved the idea of giving discharging the homelessness duties into the private £2 a week—or whatever it was—to get married. However, rented sector, were to become a big purchaser of services the Bill gives newlyweds more succession rights to a in that sector, and we could drive up standards through tenancy than a cohabiting unmarried couple who have an accreditation scheme. Does she agree with me on shared a home for decades, even when those newlyweds that? have cohabited for only a matter of days. That is not fair or appropriate. If passed unamended, clause 134 Alison Seabeck: The hon. Gentleman knows that I would not reflect modern family life for many families agree. I tabled the amendments in Committee proposing in Britain. exactly that, so the answer is yes. We tabled those The Minister said in Committee that there was some amendments because we wanted to see an end to homeless tidying up to be done. I acknowledge that Government applicants being placed in sub-standard or unsafe amendments 194 to 201 try to improve the provisions accommodation. Sadly, the Government rejected those and address the succession issues. In so far as they amendments, and we shall have to wait to see how the represent a degree of Government movement since matter pans out in the other place. Committee, I welcome those amendments. I also welcome In Committee, we also sought to improve the advice the Minister’s acknowledgment at the time that the Bill offered to people presenting as homeless, but that, too, was far from perfect. A host of Government amendments was rejected, as was our amendment to ensure that the have been tabled—more than the norm on Report—which Government’s changes to housing benefit would not largely reflects the lack of pre-legislative scrutiny that leave families intentionally homeless. The Government the Bill received and the rushed consultations. also rejected our amendment to ensure that any private I shall try to get through our remaining amendments sector accommodation into which homeless applicants as quickly as possible. On the right of tenants to complain were placed should be deemed to be affordable, although directly to the housing ombudsman, we oppose clause 153 the Minister has mentioned taking affordability into and seek to remove it with amendment 278. Clause 153 account. An amendment seeking to prevent homelessness would require tenants to seek permission and approval through better advice, with statutory guarantees on the from their elected representatives to complain about quality of that advice, was also rejected. The hon. their social landlord to the housing ombudsman. We Members for Bradford East (Mr Ward) and for St Austell support the National Housing Federation position on and Newquay expressed similar concerns, but sadly, this issue. Amendment 278 would allow tenants the they withdrew all their amendments and held the coalition 421 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 422

[Alison Seabeck] secure other accommodation is distinct from the main homelessness duty. Extending this provision to those line. I hope that we will be able to convince some not in priority need would help an individual facing a Members on the Government Benches to join us in the crisis who might just need some short-term accommodation Lobby today because of the Government’s failure to to get back on their feet. It would give the individual listen to the arguments that we and they made in and the authority the opportunity to work towards Committee. I am sure that their colleagues in the Lords resolving their homelessness, perhaps outside the social will also look closely at these issues. sector, helping to ensure that no one faced a situation More than 160,000 people presented as homeless last with no option but to sleep rough. year, and I am disappointed that a Bill that will have a profoundly negative impact on the lives of hundreds of thousands of people has returned to the Floor of the 4.45 pm House after its Committee stage, and after a lengthy On that point, perhaps I can press the Minister to tell pause, with no amendments to address the criticisms us whether the rumours on the street are correct—that and concerns levelled by charities and experts who deal his Department is considering announcing that no with homelessness on a day-to-day basis. Two very one should sleep rough for more than one night. Do good reports have been published in the past fortnight. these rumours have any foundation? If so, does he One from Crisis, on single homelessness, flags up the expect to table amendments in the other place to deal areas in which the most can and should be done to with the issue and what will be the additional funding prevent homelessness. The other, from the Homeless alongside it? People’s Commission, points out that offering better I am sure that the Minister will have noted the story advice will save the Exchequer money. of Chris, a young homeless person in crisis in a recent The Bill is a retrograde step. Homeless applicants Crisis publication, “The Hidden Homeless”. Told that found to be in priority need and unintentionally homeless he was not entitled to succeed the tenancy of a social will no longer be able to draw on the security and home in which he had been living and caring for his stability of a social home with security of tenure. Instead, grandmother for 15 years up to her death—this brings they will be placed directly into the private rented sector me back to my earlier point about succession—Chris and if they refuse an offer, for whatever reason, the found himself homeless and without decent advice or local authority will no longer have a duty to house support from the local authority. As a consequence, he them. They would then have almost nowhere to turn for slept rough, broke into buildings for shelter, ended up help. It does not take much to realise the circumstances with a criminal record and no break from the cycle of in which an offer might be unacceptable to an applicant. homelessness. Something must be done to address this; The accommodation might be too expensive, too far the Government’s Bill falls far short of the mark. I hope away from their child’s school—a point made by my the Minister will reconsider his position on our amendments hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith to deal with the problem. (Mr Slaughter)—or too close to an abusive ex-partner. Amendment 270 would ensure that, whenever possible, It might also be damp, mouldy or unsafe—the list goes any homeless applicant to be placed in the private on. Key among all this is the insecurity that a private rented sector is offered somewhere within the borders of rented sector offer can sometimes bring. There was a their own local authority first. The point has already very good article in Inside Housing this week, following been made. For a family with children, this will be a survey that clearly showed that a homeless person essential to avoid having to pull the children out of placed in the private rented sector was likely to face school, and it is always preferable for reasons of community eviction very early, and to be turned around and around and stability not to make people move out of an area, in a circle of homelessness. except where there are valid reasons such as domestic The third biggest cause of statutory homelessness violence, when a placement out of district might be last year was the loss of an assured shorthold tenancy. preferable. There are going to be pressures, given the As I said earlier, stability is vital in order to prevent changes coming to housing benefit, so I hope that the what people have referred to as the revolving door of Minister and his colleagues in the Department for Work homelessness. With tenancies in the private rented sector and Pensions will bear that in mind. being less stable and of a shorter duration, the risk of If the Government are insistent that they wish to recurring homelessness is greater, so the need for stronger place homeless applicants directly into the private rented statutory protection increases. Amendments 273, 274, sector, it is only right for them to acknowledge the need 275, 276 and 360, taken together, would extend the to strengthen protections for the very predictable outcome period within which the homelessness duty would recur of their choices. Evidence shows that homeless people from two years to five years when the applicant was housed in the private rented sector are more likely to be placed in the private rented sector. They would also evicted. provide, during that five year period, that a household Let me finish by saying that it is not just this Bill’s accepted as homeless should receive “reasonable preference” provisions that give cause for alarm, as changes to on their local authority’s housing allocation scheme. housing benefit will increase homelessness and rough Under amendment 269, the duty of local authorities sleeping. We have already seen homelessness increase by to find temporary accommodation for a period that some 15% since this Government came into office. The enables the homeless person to find accommodation Government’s consultation on statutory duties on local themselves would be extended to intentionally and authorities has seen Tory councils like Hammersmith unintentionally homeless people who were not in priority and Fulham viewing it as an opportunity to scale back need. It is important to note that this duty to accommodate their duties to homeless people, while Westminster council for long enough to give reasonable opportunities to has been busy trying to ban soup kitchens. 423 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 424

If we had several days to debate this Bill on the Floor Andrew Percy: My local authority had a clear policy. of the House, we could easily fill that time, as many Housing officers would talk to tenants and try to encourage issues deserve to be debated—not least issues of supply, them to move into smaller, more appropriate whether or not the new homes bonus will work, and accommodation if it was available, although of course why the planning Minister, the Minister of State, it is not always available. There is nothing wrong with Department for Communities and Local Government, that, but I understood from the Minister’s response that the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells, yesterday people might end up in the courts when the terms of brought forward an amendment at the behest of the their flexible tenancies were enforced, and might effectively Minister for Housing and Local Government, who is be forced out of their homes. obviously getting desperate: houses are not being built I am also worried about the two-year period. One of and his new homes bonus needs a kick-start, so he is the problems on our estate was the difficulty of making trying to buy planning permissions. We could have had people feel part of the estate and part of the community. an entire debate on that provision alone. As I say, many A transitional arrangement, with people coming in for issues deserve to be debated and I have no doubt that two years and then being forced out and different my noble Friends in the other place will seek to pursue people coming in for another two years, does not help these areas when they eventually get their hands on the to maintain the sustainability and viability of the Bill. community. Our new clauses and amendments are designed to defend mixed communities, to extend protections and Stephen Gilbert: My hon. Friend is making a number advice to homeless people, to stand up for security and of excellent points. Does he agree that the Government stability for low-income families and to prevent the cannot create a big society and increase community segregation of those sections of our society that this Bill cohesion if we continue to move people around? will surely deliver. I urge colleagues of all parties to join Andrew Percy: I agree. We experienced several problems us in the Lobby on amendments 13 and 271, which we of antisocial behaviour in the community that I used to intend to press to the vote. represent, but we dealt with them over a period. After a Andrew Percy: I wish to discuss amendments 13 and while, people who had moved in from outside the area 271, and in doing so to draw on my experience of started to appreciate the community in which they were serving for 10 years as a local councillor in the city of living and became part of it. Children befriended other Hull in east Yorkshire. I represented a large council children at the local school, and their parents then estate, including the house in which my dad grew up, as befriended one another. The sense of community was well as the three-bedroom house in which my grandma protected, which had a major impact on what had been lived until the day she died because it was her home. huge antisocial behaviour problems. We had a sustainable community in which people had invested and in which I have no problem with the concept of flexible tenancies, they wanted to remain. There is a risk here. If people and I think that councils should be given tools enabling are constantly moving after short periods of time, they them to offer some form of flexibility. However, although might not look after their houses and gardens. That I broadly support the Bill—an odd feature of this place may sound a bit silly, but the condition of houses and is that Members tend to get to their feet when they are gardens gives an impression of what a community is unhappy rather than happy about something, but I like. If people feel they have a personal investment in assure Ministers that there are plenty of provisions in their homes, they will maintain their gardens and do the Bill about which I am perfectly happy—I should work to their properties; they will have some pride in like to be given a few more details. The Bill states that the house in which they live because they see it as their local authorities may offer flexible tenancies, but I home. should like to see more commitment in regard to the proportion that they should offer, and also an absolute Alison Seabeck: The hon. Gentleman is making a guarantee that they will continue to offer secure tenancies. strong case. Does he accept that because such rapid The Bricknell estate, which I used to represent, illustrated turnover of tenants will inevitably result in a lack of the importance of mixed tenure. We had some problems. care for properties, lenders on housing association properties People lived in three-bedroom houses long after their in particular will start getting nervous about their investment children had left. The worst experience that I used to and may want to revisit their loan books and reduce have at my surgeries was being asked by people after their investment in certain properties? someone had died, “May we please have their house?” Andrew Percy: That is an interesting point, and I People were literally on death watch trying to obtain hope all Members would want to avoid that, but it is a homes. I do not pretend that there is not a problem with possible consequence of short-term tenancies. If authorities people living in homes that are too big for them. However, are to be allowed to offer flexible tenancies, I would they should not be forced out of their homes, to which prefer there to be a requirement on them to continue to they have a sentimental attachment. I do not want some offer secure tenancies as well so that people can work official from the local authority to turn up all of a towards that and so that there is at least some tenure sudden and tell people whose children happen to have mix. left home that under the terms of their flexible tenancies their time is up, and they must move on and make a On the point about housing officers turning up at the home somewhere else. end of a secure tenancy and suggesting to the tenant that it is time for them to move on, the issue of what Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): My hon. Friend is independent advice will be available to tenants has been making an interesting point, but the fact is that many raised. I would not want tenants to go through a court people downsize whether they are in social housing or process and, perhaps, end up being forced out of their not. They should not be forced out, but offering them home without ever having had access to the correct and alternative accommodation might be a solution. appropriate advice. 425 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 426

[Andrew Percy] appropriate changes in the House of Lords, Senate or whatever it is going to become at the appropriate time. I If we are to take into account the structures of am not convinced that we could not have a situation modern families, tenants cannot simply be told, “You where somebody who has been living in their home for have a three-bedroom house and two people have moved five or 10 years is then suddenly dragged before the out, so you’re only using one bedroom,” because family courts and removed from their home. I am sure that members frequently move out and back in again. Where that is not what Ministers intend or what any local is the security for the parent and for the kid who pops authority would want to see, but I am not convinced off to university or to do a job somewhere else, or who that the protection is robust enough in the Bill. I am moves out because they are in a relationship which then sure that Ministers are discussing how those protections ends so they want to return to the family home? I keep can be put in place, and I look forward to the response using the word “home” because these properties are not at some point in the future. merely a facility that belongs to the council—although I suppose legally they are that. They are much more than Ian Mearns: I am grateful to my hon. Friend the that, however, so where is the security for the young Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), person who moves out and then wishes to return home? the shadow Minister, for mentioning the new homes I have absolutely no doubt that these proposals have bonus, because people in Gateshead are considering been made with the best of intentions. On the estate I what to do with the magnificent award of £68,000 that represented we had huge problems with such patterns we have been given by the Government under the new of occupation and young people not having a chance to homes bonus. That is approximately 28p per head of get a home, but we do not want to use a sledgehammer population to spend on the development of new homes to crack a walnut. within the borough of Gateshead. However, I do not want to discuss that today, because I want to talk about Mrs Main: My hon. Friend is making a powerful my new clause 23. I declare an interest, because I had point, but I have to say that young families who are assistance in drafting my new clause from staff at the seeking a home—very much like ambulance chasers, Local Government Association, and I am a vice-president although I am not saying they are like ambulance of that organisation. chasers—come to my surgery. This issue works both New clause 23 proposes that the Bill should be amended ways, and unless my hon. Friend comes up with an to include a provision to support local authorities in alternative solution, the proposal before us has to be reducing the level of littering from vehicles. The Bill considered as a creative thought that is worth exploring. provides an excellent opportunity to amend section 87 in part IV of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 to Andrew Percy: The radical solution that I have always enable local authorities to deal specifically with littering favoured—which is not very popular among my party from vehicles. Such an approach would help to reduce colleagues—is that we should build more council houses, the high level of litter, not only at road junctions, and I am pleased that Conservative-run East Riding of roundabouts and exits from service areas, which are Yorkshire council in my constituency is, indeed, building difficult to clean up, but in our streets generally. The more council houses in Goole, as it recognises there is a new clause fits with the overall aims of the legislation, need there. and with the specific new powers for local authorities to I think I did offer a solution to the question asked by tackle persistent fly-posting and graffiti. my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans (Mrs Main), Anyone who wanders around the streets of Britain however. I said that I wanted better protection in the will notice that litter thrown from vehicles is a problem Bill so that we can ensure that secure tenancies are affecting the cleanliness of highways and roadside verges, guaranteed and will continue. I have nothing against a creating cleansing issues for many local authorities up proportion of council housing stock being made available and down the country. Furthermore, many drivers and for flexible tenancies, and as the Minister said, local passengers feel that they are anonymous when they authorities can certainly determine to do that. However, throw litter from vehicles. The introduction of a specific I fear that, particularly where there is high demand and offence where the owner of a vehicle is held responsible limited stock, some local authorities will make decisions for such littering, unless they can prove otherwise, would that will mean we end up with a situation where nobody discourage drivers and their passengers from throwing can ever work towards having a secure tenancy. I would litter. Such an offence would also provide a further not want that at all. means for local authorities to tackle the growing problems We heard much about tenure standards from the of roadside litter. Minister, and we had many assurances on that. Perhaps Littering from vehicles is a major issue for the public. if he gets more than 16 seconds to respond to the In 2009, Keep Britain Tidy launched a campaign to debate, we can have a little more detail about those encourage members of the public to report incidences standards and how robust they will be. I agree there is a of littering from vehicles. Although the campaign ended problem here, which is why I have concerns about two years ago, more than 9,500 such reports were amendment 13 on the basis that it takes out flexible received from members of the public. We have all seen tenancies entirely. Amendment 271 perhaps has more drivers who smoke depositing the contents of their going for it. ashtrays on the kerbside, usually not in their own street but in someone else’s or, as is common, around the 5pm country. We have all witnessed soft drinks containers, I just hope that Ministers will be able to offer me fast food wrappers, residue from fruit, half-eaten sandwiches more assurances that if, after careful consideration, and much worse being flung from moving vehicles or they decide that something a little more robust needs to being deposited from a vehicle parked at the side of the be put in the Bill to protect tenants, they will make the road when a snack break is over. 427 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 428

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I endorse tenancies? That question really needs to be addressed in what my hon. Friend is saying. Is he also aware that the other place. I would hate to see the churn that might those of us who cycle face a danger from unthinking happen. I also think that the idea of a mix of tenancies, motorists who open their window and throw rubbish from a minimum of, say, five years through to secure out, and that is an assault on cyclists? tenancies, probably has quite a lot to offer. We should not need to be prescriptive from the centre. We ought to Ian Mearns: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for be enabling local authorities, but obviously some alarming making that point, with which I wholeheartedly concur. information has been put before us today and that I was going to come on to that. It is mainly cyclists, means that the regulatory side will have to be very pedestrians and local residents who have to negotiate secure. their way through the mess that is left. This selfish, antisocial and irresponsible activity must be curtailed. Jeremy Corbyn: Will the hon. Lady give way? In London, the power to tackle littering from vehicles Annette Brooke: If the hon. Gentleman does not was recently introduced by the London Local Authorities mind, I would like to be brief so that my colleagues can Act 2007. Section 24 gives a London borough council get in. the power to serve a penalty charge notice on the registered keeper of a vehicle if any passenger throws I want to put on record my concern about the two-year litter from it. In that case, the use of a penalty charge tenancies. True, it is said that they will be exceptions but notice rather than a fixed penalty notice means that that there is a big “but” once we start using the term is a civil offence rather than a criminal one. Furthermore, “exceptions”. The Liberal Democrats want this issue to due to defective drafting, the 2007 Act is not active until be revisited in the House of Lords. It is incredibly amending legislation has been given Royal Assent. I important to get it right. propose that the enforcement section of the Localism Let me briefly address the homelessness issue. Having Bill should be amended to include a reference to vehicle a roof over one’s head by having something in the related litter. That would follow on from the commitment private sector might be a good option. However, the to finding a solution to the problem made by Lord point has been made—and I have to go along with Henley, the Minister responsible for local environmental it—that we must look at all the individual circumstances quality, at the national litter convention in December such as whether there has been domestic violence and last year. whether there are children in the family who have to be New clause 23 has legislative precedent and is in line able to access their current school. If they have experienced with the legislation on other road traffic investigation trauma, it is important that they stay in their school. and fly-tipping offences and the approach taken to Like yesterday, time is incredibly short and we are left littering from vehicles in the 2007 Act. The Government with very important issues to address, which will affect have a chance today to do something about the problem people’s lives, and we have no time to get to the bottom and I hope that they will do so. I am convinced that the of them. That is why it is so important that as we pass vast majority of the public that we serve would not this Bill to the other place, we do so with a lot of regard new clause 23 as contentious in any respect questions. whatsoever. Mr Betts: May I begin by congratulating my hon. Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison I shall be very brief, as I wish my colleagues to have time Seabeck) on her effective criticism of the Government’s to make their quite important contributions. We have proposals on security of tenure? Her comments were some concerns about the issues raised this afternoon. excellent and I thoroughly support them. Let me start with new clause 26, tabled in my name I also give credit to the hon. Member for Brigg and and those of my hon. Friends. I was pleased with the Goole (Andrew Percy), who made some very perceptive Minister’s response. The clause aims to free small fully comments. The reality is that people will be dragged out mutual housing co-operatives from burdensome regulation of their homes at the end of a flexible tenancy and told, and significant costs that they cannot and really should “That is no longer your home.” If people resist, they not have to shoulder in the same way as private landlords. will be dragged in front of the courts and evicted. That This would obviously help to provide a more conducive is what is going to happen; there is no getting away from environment for new housing co-operatives and would that. He was absolutely right to say that it changes the not cost the Government much money. I know it fits in status of the offer that is made to someone at the well with the coalition Government’s agenda for community beginning of a tenancy from offering them a home that self help and a mutual approach. That and other innovative will be theirs for as long as they want it, as long as they schemes will, I hope, emerge from the Bill. abide by the tenancy rules, to offering them a temporary residence. With that temporary residence comes the risk I also want to endorse the amendments on ALMOs. of temporary schooling, temporary communities and I, too, urge the Minister to consider a ballot if there is a all the problems that the hon. Gentleman rightly identified, question of bringing things in-house, whatever the such as lack of community stability and the possibility circumstances. Poole Housing Partnership, which is an of simply creating estates of people on benefits who are excellent and outstanding ALMO, has provided a lot to moved out as soon as they get off benefits and get a job our local communities over and beyond good housing because their tenancy is then brought to an end. That is stock. I want to put that on the record. not the sort of arrangement that I want to see. Let me turn now to the key issues we have discussed this afternoon. Is there a place for flexible tenancies? Jeremy Corbyn: I absolutely endorse what my hon. We must ask that question. I think there is a place for Friend is saying. Is there not a strange contrast here in flexible tenancies, but is there a case for two-year flexible that Parliament is apparently about to vote to take away 429 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 430

[Jeremy Corbyn] in a number of cases, local authorities have simply been flouting the correct processes. Councils are saying, “We permanent tenancies for new council tenants but the are going to get rid of your ALMO; it doesn’t matter Government would not dream of doing the same thing what you say—it’s going.” They are then putting factually for owner-occupiers or others in our society? Why should inaccurate reports to housing committees. They are not we demote council tenants to this level of insecurity? offering people a real choice in the consultation, they are not explaining the facts, and they are not presenting Mr Betts: My hon. Friend makes a very good point. balanced arguments. They talk about saving money on These measures are changing the status of council the general fund as one reason for getting rid of ALMOs. tenants, downgrading them almost to second-class citizens. They do not refer to the new proposals on self-finance That is what this effectively means and it is creating a or the Government’s reforms. form of welfare housing. There will be people who are All those facts are being kept from tenants in unbalanced, so desperate for security that they will over-extend one-sided consultations. I hear what the Minister says. I themselves in trying to become owner-occupiers, which shall not press the new clause, and I look forward to could lead to real problems. I say to the Liberal Democrats further discussions with him and his colleagues about that they should not hide behind the idea that the the best way of constructing the measure to get the best measures are all right because existing tenants will not deal for ALMO tenants and to ensure that in the end be affected or because local authorities will have to they make the decisions which affect their homes. choose whether to go for these forms of tenancies. The reality is that, currently, as long as people abide by the rules, they cannot be evicted from council or housing 5.15 pm association properties—they cannot have their tenancy Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): ended by their landlord—but under the Bill that will be Like the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), I possible, and if Liberal Democrats vote for the provisions, shall speak not about housing, but about litter, and I they will be allowing that to happen. shall say a little about new clause 33. The new clause Let me say one thing about the homelessness provisions. would extend street litter control notices to office buildings It might surprise some to hear that I am not, in principle, by amending the Environmental Protection Act 1990. against local authorities being able to discharge their Although this is only a minor amendment, it would homelessness responsibilities by making an offer in the have a major impact on the ability of local authorities private rented sector, but I do want to see clear safeguards. to clean up their streets. If a house becomes available in my constituency, where Four years ago I launched a project in my constituency some areas have very limited social housing, it is by no called Litter Angels to highlight the nuisance of litter. means apparent to me that someone who has just The idea of Litter Angels—which has now applied for become homeless should get that property as opposed charitable status, so I suppose I should declare an to someone who has been in the private rented sector interest as one of the trustees—is to work with our local waiting on a housing list for six years. However, if an primary schools to educate children about the harm offer is made, it has to be made with the standards of that litter does to our local environment. We take the the private rented property being approved by the local view that catching them young might encourage more authority, with the landlord or their agent being part of of them to practise good habits as they get older. an accredited scheme—probably with regular inspections to make sure that the property is kept to a reasonable More recently, Litter Angels launched a “Big Clean standard—and with a minimum tenancy length. I would Up” campaign in Sittingbourne and Sheppey, which is certainly want those conditions to be included. encouraging local groups and individuals to commit to undertaking at least one project to clean up our local Finally, let me address new clause 3, which is in my area. The “Big Clean Up” will take place during August, name. I heard the Minister’s comments but I still feel and I am proud that my constituency was one of the that a ballot is the best way of ensuring that the views of first in the country to embrace the national “Love ALMO tenants are really taken into account and that Where You Live” campaign being run by Keep Britain we do not simply have consultations in which the tenants Tidy. say one thing and the local authority does another, which is already happening. A ballot is the best way It was Keep Britain Tidy which highlighted to me a forward, but if the Minister is saying that the same particular problem with smoking-related litter, with process that was used to set up an ALMO should be which new clause 33 deals. Sections 93 and 94 of the used to dismantle it, he must firm up the guidance and 1990 Act give local authorities the power to issue street make it a statutory obligation for local authorities to litter control notices on premises that have a frontage comply with that. I see him nodding, and that is very on a street and outside of which litter or refuse is good. causing a defacement of the land. The problem is that the legislation was originally envisaged to tackle fast Andrew Stunell: I did give that assurance; we certainly food litter and other such rubbish, and pre-dated the are going to take a very close look at the point he is ban on smoking in public buildings and places of work. raising. The House might be surprised to learn that the latest local environment quality survey of England revealed Mr Betts: The Housing Minister has said that he is that smoking-related litter is present on 76% of the sites prepared to have a meeting with me and other officers surveyed and is the most frequently found litter type. of the parliamentary all-party group on arms length Much of that smoking-related litter can be found management organisations. The information we have outside office buildings. Unfortunately, street litter notices got from the National Federation of ALMOs, with cannot normally be served on office buildings unless which we recently had a very good meeting, shows that, they sell food and drink, whether or not for consumption 431 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 432 on the premises—for example, from a canteen or snack and designed simply to close a loophole in the current kiosk. Extending the street litter notice provisions to legislation. I hope that the Minister will agree to include include office buildings would provide local authorities it in this important Bill. with the means to deal with localised litter problems and would close an unintended loophole in the legislation. Mr Raynsford: I draw attention to the interest I The new clause would also allow local authorities to declared at the beginning of the Bill’s passage through require occupiers or owners of offices and non-food the House and again in Committee. retail outlets to play a greater role in dealing with the It is, in my view, a sad day for housing when we come scourge of litter and encourage members of the public to consider this Bill on Report, as it involves a series of to take increased responsibility for their litter. retrograde steps that are damaging to the future housing It is worth pointing out that in June 2007 the Department prospects of millions of our fellow citizens, weaken for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs undertook a tenant rights and safeguards for homeless people, and final regulatory impact assessment on the extension of undermine the future of social housing in this country. street litter control notices. This was as a response to the It is particularly sad that we have had most of the potential impact of the smoking ban on littering and its debate during the extraordinary absence of the Minister extension to office buildings. That assessment confirmed for Housing and Local Government, who is responsible that if local authorities were able to issue street litter for this and yet graced us with his attendance for only a control notices in respect of offices and other venues few minutes in a previous sitting and has made no not currently covered by the provisions, it would give contribution whatsoever to the passage of the Bill through them the power to place a greater responsibility on the the House. That is an extraordinary comment on his occupiers or owners of those premises to clean up, values. His approach, which the Government have adopted particularly the smoking-related litter in the area since coming to power last year, has been to cut drastically immediately around them, perhaps by installing appropriate the funding for social housing, including a massive 65% disposal facilities where this form of littering is a significant reduction to the Homes and Communities Agency budget. problem. We are seeing individual rights cut back, such as The assessment noted that such a proposal was in line tenant rights for homeless people. There is a curious with changes introduced by the Clean Neighbourhoods element in this that the hon. Member for Brigg and and Environment Act 2005, which followed the “polluter Goole (Andrew Percy) hinted at in his impressive pays” principle by improving the powers available to contribution. He rightly highlighted the fact that the local authorities to take action. A cost-benefit analysis Government are giving greater priority to the interests undertaken by the Department for Environment, Food of the providers of housing than to the public, the and Rural Affairs in June 2007 calculated that such a customer and the user of services. That is not compatible proposal would result in a net benefit to society overall with normal Conservative rhetoric, and we have heard, because notices would be issued only in a minority of again and again, their attack on provider interests and cases and that costs imposed on local authorities and their wish to support the position of the customer businesses would be relatively small and outweighed by and the user of services, but not here. Tenants’ rights the benefits associated with improved amenity, reduced and the rights of homeless people are being cut back, cleaning costs resulting from preventive measures and a and when we argue that point we get the answer, “Don’t reduced fire risk. worry, because the providers will do the right thing. They will look after the interests of tenants. They will To allow notices to be issued in respect of any type of give lots of security, they won’t undermine tenants’ office premises, rather than the current limited number security and they will look after the interests of homeless of offices, the new clause proposes to widen the definition people. Trust the providers.” set out in section 94(l)(a) in part IV of the 1990 Act by That is an interesting stance for the Government to omitting reference to “commercial or retail premises” take in this policy area, because in almost every other and inserting “premises other than dwellings”—I draw we hear a completely different rhetoric—the rhetoric of the House’s attention to a typing error in today’s amendment increasing the power and the influence of the customer, paper, which shows “premium” rather than “premises”. of the user of the service. Indeed, this Bill contains a My proposal has a legal precedent in London, where great many passages where exactly that has motivated street litter control notice powers are currently extended the Government, so there is a curious disconnect between to office buildings by part III of the London Local the Government’s rhetoric and what they are doing on Authorities Act 2000, which, in reference to the 1990 Act, housing. The only way I can explain it is by saying that explicitly omits the words “commercial or retail premises” they clearly have no interest at all in the future of social and substitutes the words “premises other than dwellings” housing and in the interests of the people who live in for notices issued in the capital. All I seek to do is social housing or depend on it for their future prospects. extend that principle to other areas of the country. Additionally, section 93(2) of the 1990 Act states that Andrew Stunell: We do have a concern: it is for the the local authority may serve a street litter control 5 million people who are waiting for social housing, and notice about trying to make a better fit between the houses and homes that we have and the people who desperately “on the occupier or, if the premises are unoccupied, on the owner need them. of the premises”. As office buildings may have multiple occupancy, I Mr Raynsford: Were that true the Government would propose an amendment specifying that notices may be not have cut the Homes and Communities Agency issued on the owner of any premises where there is investment budget by 65%. This Bill is the fig leaf multiple occupancy. New clause 33 is uncontroversial presented by the Government to cover their embarrassment 433 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 434

[Mr Raynsford] security, but is genuinely interested in maximising the number of tenants who enjoy security of tenure. That at their failure to provide adequately for the needs of would at least be a step in the right direction, and I hope social housing in the years ahead, and it is shameful that the Government will change their mind. I note, that the Minister should try to cover that policy by however, that he did not bother to respond to my pretending that they are acting in the interests of the question about why they have not accepted the amendment homeless and the badly housed. on a minimum of five years, so perhaps I might do a little better on this second try. Andrew Stunell: I understand what the right hon. Gentleman says, but will he not acknowledge that at the 5.30 pm end of 13 years of Labour government there were fewer Amendment 362 is designed to safeguard the social homes in this country than there were at the Government against embarrassment. As the Minister start? At the end of this period of government there will will know, because we debated it in Committee, this is be more than there were when we started. about the incompatibility of the phrasing of the Bill with article 8 of the European convention on human Mr Raynsford: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely rights, as interpreted by the Supreme Court in two wrong. There is no way in which there will be more recent judgments. The Supreme Court indicated that social homes, because he knows perfectly well that the where tenants make representations against a possession only social homes provided will be provided because the action, the courts must have the discretion to be able to previous Government funded them, and that most of consider whether it is proportionate to grant possession the homes for which this Government will be responsible in the circumstances. That is clearly incompatible with will be the so-called affordable homes—although that is the passage in the Bill that says that the courts must a travesty of English, given that they are based on the grant possession in all cases, without any doubt at all. I principle of 80% of market rents, which will in many do not see how it is possible for the Secretary of State to cases be a real test of affordability—and homes that are have signed the statement saying that the wording of the created as flexible tenancies under the Bill. Bill is compatible with article 8 when clearly it is not—or The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well, because perhaps compatibility can apply only if it is put aside we have debated it and I am sorry he cannot acknowledge when cases come before the courts. It would be a rather it, that the previous Government inherited from their odd position for a Minister to take if he was expecting predecessor the most disgraceful backlog of poor condition the courts to ignore the wording of a Bill that he was housing in the social sector and rightly concentrated putting before Parliament. In the interests of avoiding investment in the early years on putting that backlog embarrassment for the Government, I hope that they right. A huge number of tenants now live in decent will accept the amendment, which the Minister will homes because of the Labour Government’s work, but know I have slightly amended to take account of one of that Government also allowed those tenants who wanted the objections that he put up in Committee. to buy their homes to do so, and that inevitably accounted The Minister entirely misinterpreted my purpose in for some reduction in the volume of social housing. tabling amendment 363, which was not to weaken tenancy standards but to safeguard housing associations from Alison Seabeck: Will my right hon. Friend acknowledge the risk of reclassification as public sector bodies. This that in the five years between 2005 and 2010 the Labour is a long and complex story, and I will not go into it, but Government built more than 250,000 affordable homes? it was debated at length when the legislation creating In the five years between 2010 and 2015, we expect at the Tenant Services Authority was going through most 150,000. Is that not pretty pathetic? Parliament. I took a similar line then, from the Government side of the House, which is that while we want to see Mr Raynsford: My hon. Friend makes an extremely frameworks in place that ensure proper safeguards for good point that I entirely endorse. It shows that the standards, we should be very careful about creating a Minister’s claim was entirely incorrect, and he should chain that goes directly from a ministerial fiat to an be ashamed of making it. instruction to a housing association which could lead to The first amendment in my name, amendment 361, is the view being formed that they are no longer independent about security of tenure. It is not the wrecking amendment bodies that can be classified as being in the private that the Minister tried to pretend it is. It simply states: sector, or not in the public sector. If such a change were “In preparing its tenancy strategy a local authority must to take place and housing associations were to become ensure that to the greatest extent possible, tenancies granted in its classified as public sector bodies, they could no longer area provide security of tenure so as to support and develop borrow from the private sector without that counting stable and confident communities.” against public expenditure. That would, at a stroke, That is absolutely in keeping with the intelligent comments wholly undermine the programme of housing association of the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole investment, and it would cause considerable financial (Annette Brooke) on how there is a place for flexible embarrassment to the Government. tenancies, but they should not take over, and to the I hope that the Government will think carefully about greatest extent possible we should try to support security this. The individual, particular reference to standards and help to build stable communities. would not necessarily, of itself, constitute sufficient That is the purpose of the amendment, and I cannot grounds for the classification to be changed, but understand why the Government are reluctant to accept cumulatively the impact of an ever-increasing number it. I give the Minister one last chance. If he wants to be of instances where the Secretary of State was able to held to have any real credibility on the issue, he should instruct the Tenant Services Authority, or whatever accept it, because it would indicate that he is not simply body, to then instruct a housing association on how to performing a sleight of hand that will deny tenants act could lead to the view being formed that these are 435 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 436 no longer bodies that are independent of the public I commend the speech of my hon. Friend the Member sector. That is a very dangerous step. I tabled the for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy). I, like him, have amendment simply to advise the Government that this an absolute commitment to council property, and think is a dangerous area that they need to think about that we should have more, not less, of it. I think that carefully, because it could seriously undermine the whole local authorities should be encouraged to build it, not funding of social housing in this country. discouraged from doing so. He speaks from his personal Now that I have explained my amendments, I hope and constituency experience. I think that I am still the that the Government will be more thoughtful and Member of Parliament who represents more council reasonable in responding to them than was evident in tenants than any other Member in England, so this the line that the Minister adopted earlier. If there is no issue is hugely important in my constituency. change, I sincerely hope that all Members of this House Of course we need to deal with under-occupying and who care about the future of social housing will vote to with the fact that people may become council tenants safeguard the interests of the public, users of the service, when they are poor and then become very rich. It seems tenants and homeless people rather than those of the to me that the way to deal with that is not to evict them, providers. but to ask them to pay more money for the property, so that rather than changing their status, the cost of the Simon Hughes: I remind the House that one of the property reflects their ability to pay.Otherwise, communities new clauses and amendments in this group is my new are broken up. Social housing should provide people clause 38. The Minister did not specifically refer to that with a spare bedroom to deal with the flexibility of the in his introduction. I had helpful conversations with household. The hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor Ministers before tabling it, and I hope that the View (Alison Seabeck) and my hon. Friend the Member Government will be sympathetic towards it. I understand for Brigg and Goole referred to that issue. As they grow that it may not be possible to agree to it today, but older, a couple may need two bedrooms rather than one. obviously there will be other opportunities if the principle Somebody might need a carer or their family or friends is accepted. to come and stay. I therefore hope that we will always assume that there should be a spare bedroom. My proposal deals with the straightforward point that, often, an existing occupier of land who is acting Lastly, I hope that while accepting the principle of perfectly properly and within planning permission, such flexibility, the Government will have a presumption that as a bakery, a print works or another business, is the stability and security of communities is what we are challenged by people who move in nearby—often it is striving for. Every year, about a quarter of the electors residential occupiers, who in my constituency will have in my constituency move on or off the electoral roll. paid quite a large price for their property—who complain They do not necessarily move in or out of the constituency, about the activity that was known to happen there when but sometimes within it. I appreciate that the position in they moved in. People who had moved into Bermondsey inner London is more extreme than elsewhere. However, street alongside the Ticino bakery, which has been there we must build communities, and that is done by having for decades, if not centuries, complained that there was more, not less, security. That does not mean that there a noise at 4 o’clock in the morning because people were should be no flexibility or that councils and other baking bread. That complaint is completely unacceptable. providers should have no ability to have tenancies that People who had moved in opposite the print works on are not secure, but security of tenure should be the Surrey docks complained that vans came in and out in presumption. I hope that as the Bill goes from this place the middle of the night to deliver newspapers. That is to the other place, the concerns from across the House not altogether surprising and is absolutely obvious. will continue to be considered. This is not just an urban That complaint is therefore unacceptable. I could go on. issue, but a rural one. People who move in next to farms complain about the I look forward to Ministers being positive about the cockerels crowing, people who move in next to churches noises that they have heard from Government Members, complain about the bells ringing, and people who move as well as from Opposition Members, this afternoon. in next to mosques complain about the imam calling people to prayer. Those complaints are all nonsense. Sheila Gilmore: I rise to speak in support of the I want it to be clear that caveat emptor or caveat amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for mover-in is the principle that we should apply. The Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck). There appears important point is that such unacceptable complaints to be inherent conflict between different Bills that are threaten businesses. They threaten the livelihood of the proceeding through the House. I have been sitting on farmer, the baker, the print works or the night club. My the Welfare Reform Bill Committee, and it seems to me constituency is regularly afflicted by people who think that we are not looking at the whole picture. That Bill is that they have a right to complain, even though they are concerned with, among other things, the amount of the Johnny or Joanna-come-lately. I hope that that issue housing benefit that is paid out. There are concerns can be dealt with. about the rising bill and what has to be done about it, I will move on to the wider subjects in this group of and the Government are proposing measures to bring amendments. I am very supportive of the comments of down the bill that will affect people up and down the my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North country. Poole (Annette Brooke), who expressed her concern not At the same time, there are proposals in the Localism that the Government are not listening, but that they Bill that would have the opposite effect. For example, it may need to go further in the House of Lords to would create so-called affordable houses at 80% of accommodate the points made by those of us who for market rate. However, the people who need those houses, years have had a passionate concern for social housing the people everybody is wringing their hands about, will and council housing. not be able to afford those properties unless they can get 437 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 438

[Sheila Gilmore] same time there is a united theme to which we are opposed. We are concerned that in four or five years, housing benefit, which means that the housing benefit the welfare state will have shrunk out of all recognition. bill will rise. The Government are cutting benefit for some people and making their lives more difficult, but 5.45 pm at the same time creating measures that will inherently increase the housing benefit bill. Dan Rogerson: The key to social housing is longer-term tenure, which gives families, and particularly those with In the same way, increasing the use of the private young children, confidence that they have a home for rented sector for homeless families will have an effect on their family for the future. That is why we need to focus the housing benefit bill, because inevitably their rents on the fact that social housing is meant to be not for will be higher than they would be if we could find short-term crisis accommodation but for family homes. genuinely and truly affordable homes for people. I am concerned that two parts of the Government appear to I should preface my remarks by saying that I absolutely be proceeding in conflicting ways. accept that my hon. Friend the Minister’s intention is to tackle the waiting list problem, which is a huge— Another aspect of welfare reform that we hear about [Interruption.] I hear an Opposition Member say, “Build constantly, in the Welfare Reform Bill Committee and more homes,” but as we all know, the waiting list is elsewhere, is the need to make work pay and get people longer than it was when the Labour Government took into employment, which we all agree about. Flexible office 13 years ago. We can therefore take that with a tenancies may well have exactly the opposite effect. I pinch of salt. was not on the Localism Bill Committee, so it may have been different there, but I noticed today that the one I absolutely understand the Government’s aspirations issue related to flexible tenancies that the Minister was to increase the availability of social housing, but we comfortable in talking about was the vexed question of need to look at how we can increase and stretch shorter-term houses that are under-occupied or overcrowded. We all tenancies in the private sector, rather than reducing know that that is a problem, and it is not a simple one to social housing tenancies to equivalent levels. address. Flexible tenancies are not only intended to I also accept that the Government are saying that the address that situation, but that was what the Minister minimum level would not be an expectation, but, as we wanted to talk about. Perhaps it is the slightly more have already heard, some providers of social housing cuddly side of flexible tenancies. It might make people are taking it as such. Good councils and the better think, “Oh, I can see the point of that. We have to get a registered social landlords will not do that, but some bit of flexibility to get that changed.” will be waiting to implement that measure, which concerns Actually, flexible tenancies are about much more me. I am worried about tenants when providers take than that. If they are implemented in the way suggested that proposition seriously. in some of the speeches that we have heard and the We have more second homes than council houses in articles that we have read, it will mean that people who my area. The previous Government failed to tackle that are trying to get back on their feet and have found jobs huge problem, but I hope that this Government listen to may be told that it is time to leave their home. What what Cornwall Members and Members for other rural incentive does that give people to enter employment or areas say about it. We need to look at how to ensure that work harder to increase their income? those who are fortunate to get a social tenancy can have confidence that they can raise their family without fear Alison Seabeck: My hon. Friend is making some very of being moved on. People live in fear of being pushed strong points. Does she— into assured shorthold tenancies in the private sector, where they might be asked to move on every six months Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. or so. We must avoid that situation. Could the hon. Lady turn around, so that the microphone Although my hon. Friend the Minister’s intention is picks up her voice and the whole House can hear her? to provide good local authorities with the flexibility to use the measure when that might help, my worry is that Alison Seabeck: Sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker. the measure is not robust enough to stop others misusing Does my hon. Friend share my surprise at the fact it and making it the norm. That is where my concerns that the Minister has signed a number of early-day with new clause 21 lie. motions on the subject, including one clearly saying This is not Third Reading, but I should say that I am that is he a supporter of security of tenure, for all the very keen on many aspects of the Bill. However, I am reasons that we have been giving? very concerned about the provisions on tenure. I should like a great deal of reassurance in that regard from Sheila Gilmore: I certainly find that extremely surprising those on the Treasury Bench before I join the Government given what is in the Bill. in the Division Lobby. We have to ask the Government why they are moving in different directions in different legislation and why John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): In they cannot get their act together. Surprisingly, however, two minutes, I shall try to make three points. I apologise there is an underlying similarity between the two Bills—they for not being in the Chamber throughout the debate. I are about shrinking the welfare state and leaving only was here at the beginning, but then I attended a debate residual provision, whether it is residual housing for the in Westminster Hall and chaired a meeting elsewhere. poorest and neediest or residual benefits for the most My first point is a warning, and it comes from the vulnerable. That illustrates the difference between the excellent speech by the hon. Member for Brigg and Government and Opposition, about which we must be Goole (Andrew Percy). He asked whether tenants will clear. There are inconsistencies in the Bills, but at the be evicted when councils come round to inspect a 439 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 440 property. The answer is that they will be—that is what was under the enlightened Conservative Administration will happen. Just as universities increased fees to £9,000, at the time and the targets determined by Harold the bulk of councils will seize upon the two-year tenure Macmillan. rule. As a result, we will see the invidious inspection of I cannot get my head around the aim of the Bill. My properties to see how much people are earning, and hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole used a there will be evictions. I give this warning to hon. line I gave him during one of his interventions: more Members: if this measure is enacted, MPs will be the flexibility for the landlord means more inflexibility for first people those tenants will come to. On Monday, I the tenant. What happens when children who have left tied to prevent a constituent from being evicted from a home want to come back has not been satisfactorily private rented property. She was being evicted not because dealt with. I share the view of my right hon. Friend the she had not paid the rent and or because of antisocial Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon behaviour, but simply because the landlord wanted the Hughes) that a spare room for carers or returning property back so that he could re-let it on a higher rent. children should always be available in a home. Ministers That will happen time and again, and those who are know of my concerns. I raised them with three Ministers evicted will come to our surgeries. I warn Members to in Committee and on Second Reading—I am sure that be careful what they vote for tonight. The measure will my Second Reading speech was bedtime reading for all cause untold suffering that will land on our doorsteps. Front-Bench Members—but to sum up: how will shorter My second point is a statement. The reality is that tenancies help to achieve stable communities? tonight is the end of council housing as we know it. The argument has been made that there is a turnover of 5% Andrew Stunell: I certainly have longer than yesterday, a year in tenancies. If so, within a generation nobody but not quite long enough to answer all the points will be given a secure tenancy. We need to be aware of raised. what voting for this legislation would mean: let us admit I start by saying that we absolutely and emphatically that it is the end of council housing. refute the argument that we are ending security of Thirdly, as someone who is proud to have been brought tenure for social housing tenants. We are not doing that. up in a council house in a thriving community, I do not This is not the end of council housing or social tenancies. understand why council tenants should be discriminated On spare rooms, I would say to my hon. Friend the against in this way. We are not a different type of Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) that the under- people: we, too, want secure accommodation; sometimes occupation figures that I quoted were for properties when our children grow up and leave, we enjoy that with more than one spare bedroom. extra bedroom; or when things go wrong and they want The amendments are wide ranging, but at their heart to come home, we want them to be able to do so; but they are about not permitting a flexible tenancy arrangement above all people want security. This is discriminatory at all and about under no circumstances transferring legislation, and to be frank it discriminates on class families for whom the council has accepted a homelessness grounds. As my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield duty to the private rented sector. To my hon. Friends South East (Mr Betts) said, it is as though council and Opposition Members who have raised concerns house tenants are second-class citizens, yet their rents that there might be unscrupulous public landlords as cover the costs of their properties—in fact, they subsidise well as unscrupulous private landlords I would say that others because of the amount they pay in relation to the the point of having a housing regulator and tenure and cost of the property itself. mobility standards is to provide a solid framework for For those three reasons, people need to think very the decisions that providers make when they draw up carefully before voting tonight. People will interpret their housing strategies and tenancy policies, which this measure as an attack on a large number of people, they will be required to do in consultation with tenants some of whom are vulnerable, and it will undermine the too. There is a legislative framework, and there will be basis of housing in our country for a long time to come. tough rules and guidelines. There is also the guide on homelessness, which sets out the factors that must be Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): I will be brief, taken into account. because many of my points have been made already. Let me say to colleagues on both sides of the House Indeed, I could have written the speech of my hon. that the Government are trying to help homeless families Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) to get into satisfactory accommodation sooner, not for him. If he needs a speech writer, I am readily handicap them. In relation to those who require social available. My speech will contain some repetition, therefore. housing, our reform and the introduction of flexible The Government’s aim not just in the Bill, but in all tenancies will be one way of improving the fit and their policies, is to build and strengthen communities, getting more of the 5 million people who need council but strong communities mean strong, stable and settled housing into council housing. There are various myths, communities. I have a concern about the Bill, so I put one of which is about the insecurity of the private this simple question to the Front-Bench team: how will rented sector. In fact, in the past three years only 8% of the Bill and the tenancy provisions build stronger, more low-income households in the private rented sector settled communities? I am afraid that I remain unconvinced. moved because the tenancy was ended by the landlord. It has been said that people grow attached to their The other 92% moved because they wanted to move. We homes. They are not just bricks and mortar; they are need to keep the facts of the case in proportion and try homes, not houses. I suppose, in one sense, I speak from not to overdo the mythology. experience, because I was brought up in a council Let me deal with some of the other issues raised. I house. I can vaguely remember moving from Fuller thank my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and street in Cleethorpes at the age of 5 to a new build North Poole (Annette Brooke) for her kind words about council house in the centre of Grimsby. No doubt that our views on new clause 26. I have already responded to 441 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 442

[Andrew Stunell] Cunningham, Mr Jim Kendall, Liz Cunningham, Tony Lammy, rh Mr David the hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) Curran, Margaret Lavery, Ian on the ALMOs legislation. To those who have raised Dakin, Nic Leslie, Chris their concerns about tenure security let me say that the David, Mr Wayne Lewis, Mr Ivan guidelines on tenure standards will be available for Davidson, Mr Ian Lloyd, Tony Davies, Geraint Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn inspection shortly. De Piero, Gloria Love, Mr Andrew Let me deal now with those Members who have made Denham, rh Mr John Lucas, Ian specific proposals. I can tell my right hon. Friend the Dobson, rh Frank MacShane, rh Mr Denis Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Docherty, Thomas Mactaggart, Fiona Hughes) that I am making “sympathetic noises”—I Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Mahmood, Mr Khalid think that is the correct phrase—even if the neighbours Dowd, Jim Mahmood, Shabana are not in his case. On new clause 23 and 33, let me tell Doyle, Gemma Mann, John the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns)—who Dromey, Jack Marsden, Mr Gordon was speaking, I thought, on behalf of the LGA—and Dugher, Michael McCabe, Steve to one of my hon. Friends who made the same point in Eagle, Ms Angela McCann, Mr Michael Eagle, Maria McCarthy, Kerry relation to a separate amendment that we will certainly Edwards, Jonathan McClymont, Gregg look carefully at the matters that have been raised. Efford, Clive McDonnell, John I am under strict instructions to stop promptly. I Elliott, Julie McFadden, rh Mr Pat apologise to the House for not responding in the depth Esterson, Bill McGovern, Alison that I would have liked to the many points that have Evans, Chris McGovern, Jim been raised. I have been listening, as have my colleagues, Farrelly, Paul McGuire, rh Mrs Anne and we will obviously take forward the views that have Field, rh Mr Frank McKechin, Ann been expressed and ensure that they are not overlooked Fitzpatrick, Jim McKinnell, Catherine when the Bill is considered in the other place in due Flello, Robert Meacher, rh Mr Michael Flint, rh Caroline Meale, Mr Alan course. I urge my hon. Friends to support the Government Francis, Dr Hywel Mearns, Ian amendments this evening and to resist the Opposition Gapes, Mike Michael, rh Alun amendments. Gardiner, Barry Mitchell, Austin Question put and agreed to. George, Andrew Moon, Mrs Madeleine New clause 19 accordingly read a Second time, and Gilmore, Sheila Morden, Jessica added to the Bill. Glass, Pat Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Glindon, Mrs Mary Morris, Grahame M. Godsiff, Mr Roger (Easington) Clause 130 Goggins, rh Paul Mudie, Mr George Greatrex, Tom Munn, Meg Green, Kate Murphy, rh Mr Jim FLEXIBLE TENANCIES Greenwood, Lilian Murphy, rh Paul Amendment proposed: 13, page 114, line 36, leave out Griffith, Nia Murray, Ian clause 130.—(Alison Seabeck.) Gwynne, Andrew Nandy, Lisa Question put, That the amendment be made. Hain, rh Mr Peter Nash, Pamela Hamilton, Mr David O’Donnell, Fiona The House divided: Ayes 223, Noes 298. Hamilton, Fabian Onwurah, Chi Division No. 281] [5.59 pm Hanson, rh Mr David Osborne, Sandra Harman, rh Ms Harriet Paisley, Ian AYES Harris, Mr Tom Pearce, Teresa Havard, Mr Dai Phillipson, Bridget Abbott, Ms Diane Brown, Lyn Healey, rh John Pound, Stephen Abrahams, Debbie Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hendrick, Mark Qureshi, Yasmin Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Brown, Mr Russell Hepburn, Mr Stephen Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Alexander, Heidi Bryant, Chris Heyes, David Reed, Mr Jamie Ali, Rushanara Buck, Ms Karen Hillier, Meg Reeves, Rachel Anderson, Mr David Burnham, rh Andy Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Reynolds, Emma Austin, Ian Campbell, Mr Alan Hood, Mr Jim Reynolds, Jonathan Bailey, Mr Adrian Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hopkins, Kelvin Robertson, John Bain, Mr William Caton, Martin Howarth, rh Mr George Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Balls, rh Ed Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hunt, Tristram Rogerson, Dan Banks, Gordon Clarke, rh Mr Tom Irranca-Davies, Huw Rotheram, Steve Beckett, rh Margaret Clwyd, rh Ann Jackson, Glenda Roy, Mr Frank Begg, Dame Anne Coaker, Vernon James, Mrs Siân C. Roy, Lindsay Bell, Sir Stuart Coffey, Ann Jamieson, Cathy Ruane, Chris Benn, rh Hilary Connarty, Michael Benton, Mr Joe Cooper, Rosie Jarvis, Dan Ruddock, rh Joan Berger, Luciana Cooper, rh Yvette Johnson, Diana Sarwar, Anas Betts, Mr Clive Corbyn, Jeremy Jones, Graham Seabeck, Alison Blackman-Woods, Roberta Crausby, Mr David Jones, Helen Shannon, Jim Blenkinsop, Tom Creagh, Mary Jones, Mr Kevan Sharma, Mr Virendra Blomfield, Paul Creasy, Stella Jones, Susan Elan Sheerman, Mr Barry Blunkett, rh Mr David Cruddas, Jon Joyce, Eric Sheridan, Jim Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Cryer, John Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Shuker, Gavin Brennan, Kevin Cunningham, Alex Keeley, Barbara Skinner, Mr Dennis 443 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 444

Slaughter, Mr Andy Vaz, Valerie Graham, Richard Main, Mrs Anne Smith, rh Mr Andrew Walley, Joan Grant, Mrs Helen Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Angela Watson, Mr Tom Gray, Mr James McCartney, Jason Smith, Nick Watts, Mr Dave Grayling, rh Chris McCartney, Karl Smith, Owen Whitehead, Dr Alan Green, Damian McIntosh, Miss Anne Spellar, rh Mr John Wicks, rh Malcolm Greening, Justine McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Straw, rh Mr Jack Williams, Hywel Griffiths, Andrew McPartland, Stephen Stringer, Graham Williamson, Chris Gummer, Ben McVey, Esther Stuart, Ms Gisela Winnick, Mr David Gyimah, Mr Sam Menzies, Mark Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Halfon, Robert Mercer, Patrick Tami, Mark Wood, Mike Hames, Duncan Metcalfe, Stephen Hammond, Stephen Miller, Maria Thomas, Mr Gareth Woodcock, John Timms, rh Stephen Hancock, Matthew Mills, Nigel Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Trickett, Jon Harper, Mr Mark Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Wright, Mr Iain Turner, Karl Harrington, Richard Moore, rh Michael Twigg, Derek Tellers for the Ayes: Harris, Rebecca Mordaunt, Penny Umunna, Mr Chuka David Wright and Hart, Simon Morgan, Nicky Vaz, rh Keith Phil Wilson Harvey, Nick Morris, Anne Marie Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Morris, David NOES Hayes, Mr John Morris, James Heald, Oliver Mosley, Stephen Adams, Nigel Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Heath, Mr David Mowat, David Afriyie, Adam Clegg, rh Mr Nick Heaton-Harris, Chris Mulholland, Greg Aldous, Peter Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hemming, John Mundell, rh David Andrew, Stuart Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hinds, Damian Munt, Tessa Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Collins, Damian Hoban, Mr Mark Murray, Sheryll Bacon, Mr Richard Colvile, Oliver Hollingbery, George Murrison, Dr Andrew Bagshawe, Ms Louise Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hollobone, Mr Philip Newmark, Mr Brooks Baker, Norman Crabb, Stephen Holloway, Mr Adam Newton, Sarah Baker, Steve Crockart, Mike Hopkins, Kris Nokes, Caroline Baldry, Tony Crouch, Tracey Horwood, Martin Norman, Jesse Baldwin, Harriett Davey, Mr Edward Howarth, Mr Gerald Nuttall, Mr David Barclay, Stephen Davies, David T. C. Howell, John Offord, Mr Matthew Barker, Gregory (Monmouth) Huhne, rh Chris Ollerenshaw, Eric Bebb, Guto Davies, Glyn Hunter, Mark Ottaway, Richard Beith, rh Sir Alan Davies, Philip Huppert, Dr Julian Paice, rh Mr James Bellingham, Mr Henry Davis, rh Mr David Hurd, Mr Nick Parish, Neil Benyon, Richard Dinenage, Caroline Jackson, Mr Stewart Patel, Priti Beresford, Sir Paul Djanogly, Mr Jonathan James, Margot Paterson, rh Mr Owen Berry, Jake Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Javid, Sajid Pawsey, Mark Bingham, Andrew Dorries, Nadine Jenkin, Mr Bernard Penrose, John Binley, Mr Brian Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Gareth Perry, Claire Birtwistle, Gordon Drax, Richard Johnson, Joseph Phillips, Stephen Blackman, Bob Duddridge, James Jones, Andrew Pincher, Christopher Blunt, Mr Crispin Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, Mr David Poulter, Dr Daniel Boles, Nick Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Jones, Mr Marcus Prisk, Mr Mark Bone, Mr Peter Dunne, Mr Philip Kawczynski, Daniel Pritchard, Mark Bradley, Karen Ellis, Michael Kelly, Chris Pugh, John Brady, Mr Graham Ellison, Jane Kirby, Simon Raab, Mr Dominic Brake, Tom Ellwood, Mr Tobias Knight, rh Mr Greg Randall, rh Mr John Bray, Angie Elphicke, Charlie Kwarteng, Kwasi Reckless, Mark Bridgen, Andrew Eustice, George Laing, Mrs Eleanor Redwood, rh Mr John Brokenshire, James Evans, Graham Lamb, Norman Rees-Mogg, Jacob Brooke, Annette Evans, Jonathan Lancaster, Mark Reevell, Simon Bruce, Fiona Evennett, Mr David Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Reid, Mr Alan Buckland, Mr Robert Fabricant, Michael Latham, Pauline Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Burley, Mr Aidan Featherstone, Lynne Leadsom, Andrea Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Burns, Conor Field, Mr Mark Lee, Jessica Robertson, Hugh Burrowes, Mr David Foster, rh Mr Don Lee, Dr Phillip Robertson, Mr Laurence Burstow, Paul Fox,rhDrLiam Lefroy, Jeremy Rosindell, Andrew Burt, Lorely Francois, rh Mr Mark Leigh, Mr Edward Rudd, Amber Byles, Dan Freeman, George Leslie, Charlotte Ruffley, Mr David Cairns, Alun Freer, Mike Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Rutley, David Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Fuller, Richard Lewis, Brandon Sanders, Mr Adrian Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Gale, Mr Roger Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Sandys, Laura Carmichael, Neil Garnier, Mark Lidington, rh Mr David Scott, Mr Lee Carswell, Mr Douglas Gauke, Mr David Lloyd, Stephen Selous, Andrew Cash, Mr William Gibb, Mr Nick Lopresti, Jack Shapps, rh Grant Chishti, Rehman Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lord, Jonathan Sharma, Alok Chope, Mr Christopher Glen, John Loughton, Tim Shelbrooke, Alec Clappison, Mr James Goldsmith, Zac Lumley, Karen Shepherd, Mr Richard Clark, rh Greg Goodwill, Mr Robert Macleod, Mary Simmonds, Mark 445 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 446

Simpson, Mr Keith Uppal, Paul Corbyn, Jeremy Johnson, Diana Skidmore, Chris Vaizey, Mr Edward Crausby, Mr David Jones, Graham Smith, Miss Chloe Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Creagh, Mary Jones, Helen Smith, Henry Walker, Mr Charles Creasy, Stella Jones, Mr Kevan Smith, Julian Walter, Mr Robert Cruddas, Jon Jones, Susan Elan Smith, Sir Robert Watkinson, Angela Cryer, John Joyce, Eric Soubry, Anna Weatherley, Mike Cunningham, Alex Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Stephenson, Andrew Webb, Steve Cunningham, Mr Jim Keeley, Barbara Stevenson, John Wharton, James Cunningham, Tony Kendall, Liz Stewart, Bob Wheeler, Heather Curran, Margaret Lammy, rh Mr David Streeter, Mr Gary White, Chris Dakin, Nic Lavery, Ian Stride, Mel Whittaker, Craig David, Mr Wayne Leslie, Chris Stuart, Mr Graham Whittingdale, Mr John Davidson, Mr Ian Lewis, Mr Ivan Stunell, Andrew Wiggin, Bill Davies, Geraint Lloyd, Tony Swales, Ian Willetts, rh Mr David De Piero, Gloria Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Swayne, Mr Desmond Williams, Mr Mark Denham, rh Mr John Love, Mr Andrew Swinson, Jo Williams, Roger Dobson, rh Frank Lucas, Ian Swire, rh Mr Hugo Williams, Stephen Docherty, Thomas MacShane, rh Mr Denis Syms, Mr Robert Williamson, Gavin Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Mactaggart, Fiona Tapsell, Sir Peter Willott, Jenny Dowd, Jim Mahmood, Mr Khalid Teather, Sarah Wilson, Mr Rob Doyle, Gemma Mahmood, Shabana Thurso, John Wollaston, Dr Sarah Dromey, Jack Mann, John Timpson, Mr Edward Wright, Simon Dugher, Michael Marsden, Mr Gordon Tomlinson, Justin Young, rh Sir George Eagle, Ms Angela McCabe, Steve Tredinnick, David Zahawi, Nadhim Eagle, Maria McCann, Mr Michael Truss, Elizabeth Tellers for the Noes: Edwards, Jonathan McCarthy, Kerry Turner, Mr Andrew Jeremy Wright and Efford, Clive McClymont, Gregg Tyrie, Mr Andrew Mr Shailesh Vara Elliott, Julie McDonnell, John Esterson, Bill McFadden, rh Mr Pat Evans, Chris McGovern, Alison Question accordingly negatived. Farrelly, Paul McGovern, Jim Amendment proposed: 271, page 115, line 7, at end Field, rh Mr Frank McGuire, rh Mrs Anne insert— Fitzpatrick, Jim McKechin, Ann Flello, Robert McKinnell, Catherine ‘(2A) Subsection (2) shall not apply to a secure tenancy if Flint, rh Caroline Meacher, rh Mr Michael immediately before the tenancy was granted the person who became the tenant under the tenancy, or in the case of joint Francis, Dr Hywel Meale, Mr Alan tenants, one or more of them was— Gapes, Mike Mearns, Ian Gardiner, Barry Michael, rh Alun (a) a secure tenant of the same or another dwelling-house, George, Andrew Mitchell, Austin or Gilbert, Stephen Moon, Mrs Madeleine (b) an assured tenant of a private registered provider of Gilmore, Sheila Morden, Jessica social housing or a registered social landlord (otherwise Glass, Pat Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) than under an assured shorthold tenancy) in respect Glindon, Mrs Mary Morris, Grahame M. of the same or another dwelling-house.’.—(Alison Seabeck.) Godsiff, Mr Roger (Easington) Goggins, rh Paul Mudie, Mr George Question proposed, That the amendment be made. Greatrex, Tom Munn, Meg The House divided: Ayes 227, Noes 294. Green, Kate Murphy, rh Mr Jim Greenwood, Lilian Murphy, rh Paul Division No. 282] [6.13 pm Griffith, Nia Murray, Ian Gwynne, Andrew Nandy, Lisa AYES Hain, rh Mr Peter Nash, Pamela Abbott, Ms Diane Blunkett, rh Mr David Hamilton, Mr David O’Donnell, Fiona Abrahams, Debbie Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hamilton, Fabian Onwurah, Chi Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Brennan, Kevin Hanson, rh Mr David Osborne, Sandra Alexander, Heidi Brown, rh Mr Gordon Harman, rh Ms Harriet Paisley, Ian Ali, Rushanara Brown, Lyn Harris, Mr Tom Pearce, Teresa Anderson, Mr David Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Havard, Mr Dai Percy, Andrew Austin, Ian Brown, Mr Russell Healey, rh John Phillipson, Bridget Bailey, Mr Adrian Bryant, Chris Hendrick, Mark Pound, Stephen Bain, Mr William Buck, Ms Karen Hepburn, Mr Stephen Qureshi, Yasmin Balls, rh Ed Burnham, rh Andy Heyes, David Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Banks, Gordon Campbell, Mr Alan Hillier, Meg Reed, Mr Jamie Beckett, rh Margaret Campbell, Mr Ronnie Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Reeves, Rachel Begg, Dame Anne Caton, Martin Hood, Mr Jim Reynolds, Emma Bell, Sir Stuart Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hopkins, Kelvin Reynolds, Jonathan Benn, rh Hilary Clarke, rh Mr Tom Howarth, rh Mr George Robertson, John Benton, Mr Joe Clwyd, rh Ann Hunt, Tristram Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Berger, Luciana Coaker, Vernon Irranca-Davies, Huw Rogerson, Dan Betts, Mr Clive Coffey, Ann Jackson, Glenda Rotheram, Steve Blackman-Woods, Roberta Connarty, Michael James, Mrs Siân C. Roy, Mr Frank Blenkinsop, Tom Cooper, Rosie Jamieson, Cathy Roy, Lindsay Blomfield, Paul Cooper, rh Yvette Jarvis, Dan Ruane, Chris 447 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 448

Ruddock, rh Joan Turner, Karl Gale, Mr Roger Lidington, rh Mr David Sarwar, Anas Twigg, Derek Garnier, Mark Lloyd, Stephen Seabeck, Alison Umunna, Mr Chuka Gauke, Mr David Lopresti, Jack Shannon, Jim Vaz, rh Keith Gibb, Mr Nick Lord, Jonathan Sharma, Mr Virendra Vaz, Valerie Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Loughton, Tim Sheerman, Mr Barry Vickers, Martin Glen, John Lumley, Karen Sheridan, Jim Walley, Joan Goldsmith, Zac Macleod, Mary Shuker, Gavin Watson, Mr Tom Goodwill, Mr Robert Main, Mrs Anne Skinner, Mr Dennis Watts, Mr Dave Graham, Richard Maude, rh Mr Francis Slaughter, Mr Andy Whitehead, Dr Alan Grant, Mrs Helen McCartney, Jason Smith, rh Mr Andrew Wicks, rh Malcolm Gray, Mr James McCartney, Karl Smith, Angela Williams, Hywel Grayling, rh Chris McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Nick Williamson, Chris Green, Damian McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Owen Winnick, Mr David Greening, Justine McPartland, Stephen Spellar, rh Mr John Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Griffiths, Andrew McVey, Esther Straw, rh Mr Jack Wood, Mike Gummer, Ben Menzies, Mark Gyimah, Mr Sam Mercer, Patrick Stringer, Graham Woodcock, John Stuart, Ms Gisela Halfon, Robert Metcalfe, Stephen Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Hames, Duncan Miller, Maria Wright, Mr Iain Tami, Mark Hammond, Stephen Mills, Nigel Thomas, Mr Gareth Tellers for the Ayes: Hancock, Matthew Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Timms, rh Stephen Phil Wilson and Harper, Mr Mark Moore, rh Michael Trickett, Jon David Wright Harrington, Richard Mordaunt, Penny Harris, Rebecca Morgan, Nicky NOES Hart, Simon Morris, Anne Marie Harvey, Nick Morris, David Adams, Nigel Carswell, Mr Douglas Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Morris, James Afriyie, Adam Cash, Mr William Hayes, Mr John Mosley, Stephen Aldous, Peter Chishti, Rehman Heald, Oliver Mowat, David Andrew, Stuart Chope, Mr Christopher Heath, Mr David Mundell, rh David Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Clappison, Mr James Heaton-Harris, Chris Munt, Tessa Bacon, Mr Richard Clark, rh Greg Hemming, John Murray, Sheryll Bagshawe, Ms Louise Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hinds, Damian Murrison, Dr Andrew Baker, Norman Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hoban, Mr Mark Newmark, Mr Brooks Baker, Steve Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hollingbery, George Newton, Sarah Baldry, Tony Collins, Damian Hollobone, Mr Philip Nokes, Caroline Baldwin, Harriett Colvile, Oliver Holloway, Mr Adam Norman, Jesse Barclay, Stephen Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hopkins, Kris Nuttall, Mr David Barker, Gregory Crabb, Stephen Horwood, Martin Offord, Mr Matthew Bebb, Guto Crockart, Mike Howarth, Mr Gerald Ollerenshaw, Eric Beith, rh Sir Alan Crouch, Tracey Howell, John Ottaway, Richard Bellingham, Mr Henry Davey, Mr Edward Huhne, rh Chris Paice, rh Mr James Benyon, Richard Davies, David T. C. Hunter, Mark Parish, Neil Beresford, Sir Paul (Monmouth) Huppert, Dr Julian Paterson, rh Mr Owen Berry, Jake Davies, Glyn Hurd, Mr Nick Pawsey, Mark Bingham, Andrew Davies, Philip Jackson, Mr Stewart Penrose, John Binley, Mr Brian Dinenage, Caroline James, Margot Perry, Claire Birtwistle, Gordon Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Javid, Sajid Phillips, Stephen Blackman, Bob Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Jenkin, Mr Bernard Pickles, rh Mr Eric Blunt, Mr Crispin Dorries, Nadine Johnson, Gareth Pincher, Christopher Boles, Nick Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Joseph Poulter, Dr Daniel Bone, Mr Peter Drax, Richard Jones, Andrew Prisk, Mr Mark Bottomley, Sir Peter Duddridge, James Jones, Mr David Pritchard, Mark Bradley, Karen Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, Mr Marcus Pugh, John Brady, Mr Graham Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kawczynski, Daniel Raab, Mr Dominic Brake, Tom Dunne, Mr Philip Kelly, Chris Randall, rh Mr John Bray, Angie Ellis, Michael Kirby, Simon Reckless, Mark Bridgen, Andrew Ellison, Jane Knight, rh Mr Greg Redwood, rh Mr John Brokenshire, James Ellwood, Mr Tobias Kwarteng, Kwasi Rees-Mogg, Jacob Brooke, Annette Eustice, George Laing, Mrs Eleanor Reevell, Simon Bruce, Fiona Evans, Graham Lancaster, Mark Reid, Mr Alan Buckland, Mr Robert Evans, Jonathan Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Burley, Mr Aidan Evennett, Mr David Latham, Pauline Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Burns, Conor Fabricant, Michael Leadsom, Andrea Robertson, Hugh Burrowes, Mr David Featherstone, Lynne Lee, Jessica Robertson, Mr Laurence Burstow, Paul Field, Mr Mark Lee, Dr Phillip Rosindell, Andrew Burt, Lorely Foster, rh Mr Don Lefroy, Jeremy Rudd, Amber Byles, Dan Fox,rhDrLiam Leigh, Mr Edward Ruffley, Mr David Cairns, Alun Francois, rh Mr Mark Leslie, Charlotte Rutley, David Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Freeman, George Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Sandys, Laura Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Freer, Mike Lewis, Brandon Scott, Mr Lee Carmichael, Neil Fuller, Richard Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Selous, Andrew 449 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 450

Shapps, rh Grant Turner, Mr Andrew (d) an express term of the tenancy makes provision for a Sharma, Alok Tyrie, Mr Andrew person other than such a spouse or civil partner of the Shelbrooke, Alec Uppal, Paul tenant to succeed to the tenancy, and Shepherd, Mr Richard Vaizey, Mr Edward (e) there is a person whose succession is in accordance Simmonds, Mark Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa with that term, Simpson, Mr Keith Walker, Mr Charles then, on the death, the tenancy vests by virtue of this section Skidmore, Chris Walter, Mr Robert in that person (and, accordingly, does not devolve under the Smith, Miss Chloe Watkinson, Angela tenant’s will or intestacy).’. Smith, Henry Weatherley, Mike Amendment 195, page 123, line 10, at end insert— Smith, Julian Webb, Steve Smith, Sir Robert Wharton, James ‘(1ZA) Subject to subsection (1B), in any case where— Soubry, Anna Wheeler, Heather (a) there is an assured tenancy of a dwelling-house in Stephenson, Andrew White, Chris England for a fixed term of not less than two years Stevenson, John Whittaker, Craig under which— Stewart, Bob Whittingdale, Mr John (i) the landlord is a private registered provider of social Streeter, Mr Gary Wiggin, Bill housing, and Stride, Mel Willetts, rh Mr David (ii) the tenant is a sole tenant, Stuart, Mr Graham Williams, Mr Mark (b) the tenant under the tenancy dies, Stunell, Andrew Williams, Roger (c) immediately before the death, the dwelling-house was Swales, Ian Williams, Stephen not occupied by a spouse or civil partner of the tenant Swayne, Mr Desmond Williamson, Gavin as his or her only or principal home, Swinson, Jo Willott, Jenny Swire, rh Mr Hugo Wilson, Mr Rob (d) an express term of the tenancy makes provision for a Syms, Mr Robert Wollaston, Dr Sarah person other than such a spouse or civil partner of the tenant to succeed to the tenancy, and Tapsell, Sir Peter Wright, Jeremy Teather, Sarah Wright, Simon (e) there is a person whose succession is in accordance Thurso, John Young, rh Sir George with that term, Timpson, Mr Edward Zahawi, Nadhim then, on the death, the tenancy vests by virtue of this section in Tomlinson, Justin Tellers for the Noes: that person (and accordingly does not devolve under the tenant’s Tredinnick, David Mr Shailesh Vara and will or intestacy).’. Truss, Elizabeth Norman Lamb Amendment 196, page 123, line 11, leave out ‘or’ and insert ‘, (1ZA),’. Question accordingly negatived. Amendment 197, page 123, line 11, after ‘(1A)’, insert ‘or (1AA)’. Clause 134 Amendment 198, page 123, line 14, leave out ‘(whether or not the tenant’s spouse or civil partner)’ and insert SUCCESSION TO SECURE TENANCIES ‘(and, accordingly, does not devolve under the tenant’s will or Amendments made: 191, page 121, line 36, at end intestacy)’. insert— Amendment 199, page 123, line 19, leave out from ‘(1A) A person (“P”) is qualified to succeed the tenant under a ‘housing’ to end of line 20. secure tenancy of a dwelling-house in England if— Amendment 200, page 123, line 23, at end insert— (a) at the time of the tenant’s death the dwelling-house is ‘(4A) In subsection (5) after “(1)(b)” insert “or (1A)(c)”.’. not occupied by a spouse or civil partner of the tenant as his or her only or principal home, Amendment 201, page 123, line 26, after ‘subsection’, insert ‘(1ZA), (1AA) or’.—(Greg Clark.) (b) an express term of the tenancy makes provision for a person other than such a spouse or civil partner of the tenant to succeed to the tenancy, and Clause 139 (c) P’s succession is in accordance with that term.’. REPAIRING OBLIGATIONS IN LEASES OF SEVEN YEARS OR Amendment 192, page 121, line 37, after ‘(1)’, insert MORE ‘or (1A)’. Amendments made: 202, page 125, line 11, at end Amendment 193, page 121, line 39, leave out ‘(whether insert ‘that— or not the tenant’s spouse or civil partner)’.—(Greg (i) is not a shared ownership lease, and Clark.) (ii) is’. Amendment 203, page 125, line 12, at end insert— Clause 135 “(1B) In subsection (1A)— SUCCESSION TO ASSURED TENANCIES “assured tenancy” has the same meaning as in Part 1 of Amendments made: 194, page 122, line 40, at end the Housing Act 1988; insert— “secure tenancy” has the meaning given by section 79 of the Housing Act 1985; and ‘(1ZA) Subject to subsection (1B), in any case where— “shared ownership lease” means a lease— (a) there is an assured periodic tenancy of a dwelling- house in England under which— (a) granted on payment of a premium calculated by reference to a percentage of the value of the (i) the landlord is a private registered provider of social dwelling-house or of the cost of providing it, housing, and or (ii) the tenant is a sole tenant, (b) under which the lessee (or the lessee’s personal (b) the tenant under the tenancy dies, representatives) will or may be entitled to a (c) immediately before the death, the dwelling-house was sum calculated by reference, directly or indirectly, not occupied by a spouse or civil partner of the tenant to the value of the dwelling-house.”’.—(Greg as his or her only or principal home, Clark.) 451 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 452

Clause 152 Schedule 24

POWERS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY FOR WALES

Amendment made: 204, page 130, line 4, leave out REPEALS AND REVOCATIONS clause 152.—(Greg Clark.) Amendments made: 226, page 381, line 13, at end insert—

New Clause 22

ART PRE-COMMENCEMENT CONSULTATION P 1A ‘(1) Subsections (2) and (3) apply for the purpose of determining whether there has been compliance with—

(a) a requirement for consultation imposed by this Act, FIRE AND RESCUE AUTHORITIES (b) a requirement for consultation which applies in relation to things done under an Act amended by this Reference Extent of repeal Act, or Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 Section 5. (c) a requirement (whether or not imposed by this Act) to Section 19. do something in connection with a consultation under a requirement within paragraph (a) or (b). Section 62(3).’. (2) The fact that a provision of this Act was not in force when consultation took place or anything was done in connection with Amendment 227, page 381, line 30, at end insert— a consultation is to be disregarded in determining whether there has been compliance with the requirement. ‘ In section 18— (a) subsections (4) and (5), and (3) The fact that consultation was carried out by a body from (b) in subsection (6) the words whom functions are transferred by this Act, or anything was “in Wales”.’. done by such a body in connection with a consultation, is to be disregarded in determining whether there has been compliance Amendment 228, page 382, line 5, at end insert— with the requirement by a body to whom those functions are transferred. ‘ (aa) in subsection (2ZA) the words (4) Subsection (3) is without prejudice to any other provision “in Wales”,’. of this Act that applies to the transfer. Amendment 229, page 382, line 6, leave out paragraph (5) References in this section to a requirement imposed by this Act include a requirement imposed by another Act as a result of (b) and insert— its amendment by this Act.’.—(Greg Clark.) ‘ (b) subsection (2A)(a) and (b),’. Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill. Amendment 230, page 382, line 13, at end insert—

‘ (da) in subsection (10A) the words Clause 201 “in Wales”,’. Amendment 231, page 382, line 14, leave out from ORDERS AND REGULATIONS ‘subsection’ to end of line 16 and insert Amendments made: 221, page 166, line 4, leave out first ‘or’ and insert ‘, the Treasury or the’.—(Greg ‘(13)(aa) the words from “by virtue of” to “England) or”,’. Clark.) Amendment 232, page 382, line 16, at end insert— Amendment 222, page 166, line 6, leave out first ‘or’ ‘ (ea) in subsection (13)(c) the words and insert ‘, the Treasury or the’. from the beginning to “in Wales”,’. Amendment 223, page 167, line 14, at end insert— ‘(10A) A statutory instrument that contains an order or Amendment 233, page 382, line 17, leave out paragraph regulations made by the Treasury under Schedule [Transfers and (f). transfer schemes: tax provisions] is subject to annulment in Amendment 234, page 382, line 25, leave out paragraphs pursuance of a resolution of the House of Commons.’.—(Greg (a) and (b) and insert— Clark.) ‘ (a) in subsection (3) the words from “(in the case of a local Clause 202 authority in England”to “Wales)”, (b) in subsection (6)(a) the words from “section 236” to “2007 or”, POWER TO MAKE FURTHER CONSEQUENTIAL (c) subsections (10) and (11), and (d) in subsection (12) the words AMENDMENTS “in Wales”.’. Amendments made: 224, page 167, line 41 , after ‘sections’, insert ‘8,9,’. Amendment 235, page 382, leave out line 29. Amendment 225, page 167, line 41, after ‘Parts’, Amendment 236, page 382, line 31, leave out ‘Section’ insert ‘1A,’.—(Greg Clark.) and insert ‘In section’. 453 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 454

Amendment 237, page 382, line 31, at end insert ‘— Clause 206

(a) in subsection (1)(b) sub-paragraph (ii) and the word “or” immediately preceding that sub-paragraph, COMMENCEMENT (b) in subsection (2) the words “or providing a copy Amendments made: 256, page 168, line 38, leave out of the document to a relevant partner authority”, (c) in subsection (6) in the definition of “exempt paragraph (f). information” the words “section 246 of the National Amendment 257, page 169, line 2, leave out paragraph (j). Health Service Act 2006 or”, and (d) in that subsection the definition of “relevant Amendment 258, page 169, line 2, at end insert— partner authority” and the word “and” immediately ‘(ja) section [Applications for planning permission: local preceding that definition.’. finance considerations],’. Amendment 238, page 382, line 32, at end insert— Amendment 259, page 169, line 4, leave out paragraph (l). Amendment 260, page 169, line 6, after ‘7,’, insert ‘ In section 21F (as inserted by the Local Government ‘except section168(3)(e) and (f) and (4A),’. (Wales) Measure 2011), in subsection (1) the words “in Wales”.’. Amendment 261, page 169, line 17, leave out from ‘it’ to end of line 18 and insert ‘is brought into force by Amendment 239, page 382, line 33, after ‘21F’, insert subsection (4)(f) and (fa),’. ‘(as inserted by the Flood and Water Management Act 2010)’. Amendment 262, page 169, line 21, at end insert— Amendment 240, page 382, leave out line 34 and ‘(3A) The following provisions come into force on such day as insert ‘In section 22(12A)(a) the words from “, or under” the Welsh Ministers may by order appoint— to “section 21B,”.’. (a) section8(1) so far as it inserts— Amendment 241, page 382, leave out line 36. (i) new sections 5A and 5B so far as relating to fire and Amendment 242, page 382, leave out line 37. rescue authorities in Wales, Amendment 243, page 382, leave out lines 38 to 42 (ii) new sections 5C and 5CA so far as relating to and insert— power of the Welsh Ministers to make orders, and

‘ Section 31.’. (iii) new sections 5E to 5K, (b) section8(2) so far as relating to fire and rescue authorities Amendment 244, page 382, leave out lines 43 to 48 in Wales, and insert— (c) section8(2A), (4A) and (4B)(a) and (c), ‘ Section 32.’. (d) section8(4B)(b) so far as it inserts new section 62(1A)(a) and (d), Amendment 245, page 382, leave out line 49. (e) section8(4B)(b) so far as it inserts new section 62(1A)(b) Amendment 246, page 382, line 49, at end insert— so far as relating to power of the Welsh Ministers to make orders, ‘ In section 33ZA the words “in Wales,”.’. (f) section9(1) to (3) and (4) so far as relating to fire and Amendment 247, page 382, line 50, leave out from rescue authorities in Wales, ‘33A’to end of line 51. (g) section9(3A), Amendment 248, page 384, leave out line 27. (h) the following so far as relating to fire and rescue Amendment 249, page 384, leave out line 29. authorities in Wales— Amendment 250, page 384, line 33, after ‘it),’, insert— (i) in Part 1A of Schedule24, the entries for sections 5 and 19 of the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004, ‘ (ab) subsection (2),’. and Amendment 251, page 384, line 37, leave out (ii) section203 so far as relating to those entries, and ‘paragraphs 23, 24, 25 and’ and insert ‘paragraph’. (i) in Part 1A of Schedule24, the entry for section 62(3) of Amendment 252, page 384, line 42, at end insert— the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004, and section203 so far as relating to that entry.’. ‘Local Government (Wales) Section 36(1)(b) and (c).’. Measure 2011 (nawm 00) Amendment 263, page 169, line 30, at end insert— —(Greg Clark) ‘(ea) section [Provision of advice and assistance in relation to community right to challenge],’. Amendment 264, page 169, line 32, at end insert— Clause 205 ‘(fa) sections [Provision of advice and assistance in EXTENT relation to land of community value in England] and [Provision of advice and assistance in relation to land Amendments made: 253, page 168, line 20, at end of community value in Wales],’. insert— Amendment 265, page 169, line 42, at end insert— ‘(aa) section [Tax] and Schedule [Transfers and transfer ‘(ma) section [Tax] and Schedule [Transfers and transfer schemes: tax provisions],’. schemes: tax provisions] so far as they confer power Amendment 254, page 168, line 26, after ‘Sections’, on the Treasury to make regulations or orders,’. insert ‘[Tax],’. Amendment 266, page 169, line 43, after ‘sections’, Amendment 255, page 168, line 26, after ‘207’, insert insert ‘[Pre-commencement consultation],’. ‘, and Schedule [Transfers and transfer schemes: tax Amendment 267, page 169, line 46, leave out ‘or (3)’ provisions],’.—(Greg Clark.) and insert ‘, (3) or (3A)’. 455 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 456

Amendment 268, page 170, line 12, leave out ‘section 65’ and everyone in between. A phrase that might have and insert gained his approval is one that we were not able to offer ‘sections 65 and [Provision of advice and assistance in relation to as frequently as he would have wished—“I agree with land of community value in Wales], and Chapter 4 of Part 4 so Nick.” Perhaps, there will be other opportunities for far as it confers power on the Welsh Ministers to make that. [Interruption.] I am delighted to see that the hon. regulations or orders,’.—(Greg Clark.) Member for Birmingham, Erdington is now back in his Third Reading place. Queen’s and Prince of Wales’s consent signified. In Committee, we had contributions of passion and deep experience of local government and community leadership from both sides of the Committee. It would 6.28 pm be invidious for me to single out individual members, The Minister of State, Department for Communities but the representation on the Committee of people with and Local Government (Greg Clark): I beg to move, long experience of local government and civic and That the Bill be now read the Third time. community leadership marked the Committee out as I shall keep my remarks brief because many hon. having been selected particularly appropriately and well. Members are anxious to attend the funeral of our late The Chamber tends to produce more partisanship than colleague, David Cairns. It is appropriate that everyone is often the case in Committee or below the surface. Of who can attend that funeral does so with the good will course we have had our disagreements during the past of the House. two years, but I do feel that we were able to make substantial progress with the Bill in Committee. It is a Let me begin by thanking Members who have taken landmark Bill. part in the scrutiny of the Bill on Second Reading, in our 24 Committee sittings and during the past two days Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) on Report. The level of interest in the Bill across the (PC): Let me continue in that spirit of partisanship. The House and during the 80 hours of scrutiny that it has Welsh branch of the Minister’s party had a manifesto received so far is testament to its importance and significance commitment in the recent National Assembly elections in the future of our national life. As well as paying to devolve planning power over energy stations up to tribute to members of the Committee, who laboured 100 MW—up from the current 50 MW level. Will he long in the Committee Room upstairs, I thank in particular include that pledge, which was made to the people of my ministerial colleagues for all their hard work in Wales only last month, at this late stage of the Bill? preparing and speaking to the Bill, as well as the Whips of both parties who kept us in order and made sure that we considered every clause without needing to curtail Greg Clark: We have a national system for consenting our deliberations. I thank my parliamentary private to major infrastructure projects. I have had meetings secretary, the hon. Member for Henley (John Howell), with Welsh Assembly Ministers on that and no doubt whose seminal paper, “Open Source Planning”, was the we will have meetings following the election of the new source of inspiration for many of the policies in the Bill. Assembly. I am very happy to meet the hon. Gentleman I pay tribute to all my officials and to Officers of the and Ministers from the Welsh Assembly Government to House who have worked hard on what has been a very discuss that point. long and detailed Bill to get us to the state we are in As Members know, the main features of the Bill are today. I pay tribute to all the efforts that went into that. to establish a general power of competence for local I am sure that I speak for everyone who served on the government, to increase opportunities for members of Committee when I pay tribute to the hon. Member for the public to participate directly in local democracy, York Central (Hugh Bayley) and my hon. Friend the especially via referendums, to vest in communities new Member for Southend West (Mr Amess), who chaired rights to challenge the way in which services are provided the Committee sittings with aplomb and expertise, thereby and to own assets of importance to their communities, making for very good-humoured and good-tempered to reform the planning system to remove the regional scrutiny. I think that I speak for every member of the tier, to permit neighbourhood planning and to establish Committee when I say that we have enjoyed scrutinising a new duty to co-operate at the strategic level. We have the Bill in Committee and in the House. It is fair to say clarified the functioning of local democracy in London that there was never a dull moment. The hon. Member with a degree of consent, as was pointed out earlier for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey), sadly, is today, and we have introduced new flexibilities into the not in his place—perhaps he has gone ahead of us to housing system so as to house people more reliably. the funeral I mentioned—[Interruption.] He has gone At the beginning of our deliberations, on Second to the Dog and Duck, it is said; I know that is a Reading and in Committee, I gave a commitment to favourite place of his. He treated the Committee to a respond positively to constructive debate and I hope tour of British history from the Magna Carta to the that the House believes I have done so. An hon. Member Chartists. We enjoyed that and were grateful for his was kind enough to mention yesterday that I have taken contribution. a listening approach, and I expect that to continue when The right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich the Bill goes to another place. I have not regarded my (Mr Raynsford) offered some historical perspectives of task as being simply to carry the Bill through Committee his own, some of which were drawn from his experience unamended and without influence from the House, and of introducing the measures we then went on to repeal. that continues to be my view as it progresses through The fact that he mostly kept his composure during that Parliament. time, I think we acknowledged. He had a flair for simile, Thanks to our proceedings in Committee and in the we noted, comparing Ministers and the Secretary of past couple of days we have introduced safeguards over State to everyone from Draco to Henry VIII to Dr Pangloss the use of the general power of competence and we 457 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 458

[Greg Clark] The hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) said that the Government had allowed a shameful amount of have strengthened the duty to co-operate. We have time for the debate, and for once we agree with him. substantially improved the provisions on neighbourhood I, too, thank all members of the Committee for their planning to make them more open and more representative work on the Bill, and particularly Opposition members and allow them to cross neighbourhood boundaries. who, I think we agree, carry a heavier work load. I Those are some examples of the progress that we have thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich been able to make. and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford), and my hon. Friends In a centralised system it is necessary, however the Members for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), for paradoxical it may seem, for the centre to lead on Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh), for localist reform. It does not happen without a positive Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott), for Gateshead (Ian programme, but the centre should do so in a spirit of Mearns), for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) and for Stalybridge co-operation. I will disclose to the shadow Chancellor, and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds). I pay tribute to my who I know is fond of his dividing lines, that the hon. Friends the Members for Plymouth, Moor View discussions that I have had with the Opposition Front-Bench (Alison Seabeck) and for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack team have been very constructive. Even where we have Dromey) for their excellent work and for leading the not been able to agree totally, we have been able to reach debates on our amendments. a better understanding of each other’s position and to I should mention the staff of our shadow ministerial make improvements as a result. team who worked long hours on speaking notes. Our I had hoped that that might be reflected in both sides work was supported immensely by the wise counsel of being able to support the Bill tonight. We will see in a Sarah Davies and her team in the Public Bill Office. I few minutes, but I am led to believe that that might not join in the thanks to our two able Committee Chairs, be the case, and I regret that. Although we may disagree my hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Hugh on some of the particular measures to implement the Bayley) and the hon. Member for Southend West vision of localism, I think localism is a cause whose (Mr Amess). time has come. It attracts support from across the Sadly, we still have concerns about and objections to political divide. What unites us in this place on localism a number of the Bill’s proposals. We object most strongly is greater than our points of difference, which the to the 142 extra powers that the Secretary of State House of Lords will no doubt continue to pursue. wants to take to himself, the most toxic of those being the Henry VIII powers in part 5 which we discussed Andrea Leadsom: Will my right hon. Friend give way? yesterday. Our amendment 37 proposed limits to those powers to amend, repeal, revoke or disapply any statutory Greg Clark: I will not, because I made a commitment provision. that Members would be free to go to our late colleague’s Ministers still do not understand the alarm and funeral. consternation they have caused by introducing these powers and the way they are conducting the review of It is a shame that, although the Opposition say they the statutory duties of councils. I hope they will reflect support localism, they have hit upon an ingenious solution on the debate and do more in the Bill’s later stages to to oppose it in practice, which is to seize on any instance limit those excessive powers. We disagree profoundly in which central Government intervene to pass down with the proposal to impose shadow mayors on 12 of power and to focus on that intervention, rather than on our largest cities, a proposal that Ministers spent months the transfer of power which is its purpose. But the denying they intended to introduce. It enjoys almost blindingly obvious fact is that the Bill is overwhelmingly unanimous opposition from political leaders in the decentralising. It favours the local over the central. Like cities affected, such as Bradford and Leeds. The Institute the movement en masse on a Thursday afternoon of of Local Government Studies at the university of Members from this place to their constituencies, so the Birmingham stated in a recent article: effect of the Bill is to see power leave Westminster and “It takes quite a determined political masochist to design a go where it is better vested, in local communities, and to policy that unites in opposition to it 100% of those most immediately give them their head. affected, regardless of party. Yet Communities Secretary Eric This is a significant Bill. I hope we will make continued Pickles would seem to have pulled it off with his Localism Bill’s progress in the House of Lords. I believe that we will elected mayoral package”. look back in 10, 20 or 50 years and see today as a I strongly urge Ministers to look again at their proposal turning point. The tide of centralisation has turned, not to impose shadow mayors when the Bill goes to the just because of the Government’s decentralising measures, other place. but because communities across the country are demanding On pay transparency, we welcome Ministers indicating change. That change is already under way. The Bill will that they will look at expanding their proposals to speed up the process and establish it in law. For its part include low pay, but they have not gone far enough. in that change, I commend the Bill to the House. Fairness and transparency must be applied to the private sector wherever staff are being paid from the public purse. Ministers can be assured, however, that our 6.37 pm opposition on a number of other issues not tested in Barbara Keeley: We have had more than 70 hours of Divisions is as implacable now as it was in Committee. debate and evidence during the Commons stage of the We reject the Government’s proposal to levy EU fines Bill, but I say to Ministers and Government business on local councils, which we think will prove unworkable managers that to have only 90 minutes or so on Report and hope will be thrown out when the Bill is debated in to discuss groups containing 70 new clauses and the other place. Ministers have talked about reducing amendments, as we did yesterday, was not satisfactory. burdens on local councils, but they are creating new 459 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 460 duties and financial responsibilities at a time when because at last it gives people the chance to allow councils are struggling with the challenge of dealing communities to determine the fate of their own with the Government’s swingeing, front-loaded cuts. environment. For so long, Northamptonshire has been Most importantly, we still have serious concerns and subject to a regional spatial strategy that has dumped objections to their proposals on planning and on housing all around its green spaces, and people have not homelessness and social housing tenure. As my hon. been able to have a real say over what happens. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington said, We have the West Northamptonshire Development the Government have not moved far enough on the Corporation, which was given planning powers to see duty to co-operate. Worse than that, the additional through those developments, yet we have not had the changes to planning announced in the Budget and section 106 money, and we do not have the infrastructure, Government new clause 15 have created, as my hon. roads or even school places and GP surgeries to cope Friend suggested yesterday, with the amount of centrally determined housing that “confusion, chaos and nothing short of a car crash.”—[Official has been foisted on Northamptonshire. Report, 17 May 2011; Vol. 528, c. 276.] On behalf of my constituents, I thoroughly welcome I hope that it is clear to Ministers after yesterday’s the Bill, but some questions remain, particularly in my debate that there are grave concerns about Government area, about how we get from where we are today to new clause 15, which allows financial matters to be where we want to be. Surely bodies such as the West material consideration in planning applications. This Northamptonshire Development Corporation and the effectively means that planning decisions could be for West Northants joint strategic planning committee, both sale. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich of which the previous Government foisted on us, have and Woolwich said, the new clause poses a threat to the to be removed in a post-Localism Bill world. I hope that integrity of the planning system. The national planning my right hon. and hon. Friends on the Front Bench will policy framework should have been made available so listen to that very carefully. that it could be part of our consideration. The Minister Finally, on wind farms, we are desperately keen to see says that it will be launched for consultation later, but local people able to influence the siting and number of that is not good enough in the context of a Bill that them in their area. makes such radical changes to the planning system. The Opposition want to give communities a say over 6.45 pm the future of their high streets. I hope that our new clause that proposes bringing in a retail diversity scheme Stephen Gilbert: Before I move on to my remarks will find favour in the other place after Government about the Bill, I should like to join colleagues from all Members rejected it yesterday. parts of the House in paying tribute to David Cairns, the former Member for Inverclyde. I understand that Ministers did not listen to our concerns or objections Opposition Members want to finish in order to attend on their proposals on homelessness and tenure reform his funeral, and that is perfectly understandable, so I in social housing, and there was no consensus on these will be as brief as I can. proposals. My hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View made it clear that there is much in the Bill’s Overall, this is a landmark Bill that should be welcomed housing proposals with which we cannot agree, from on a cross-party basis. Taking Whitehall out of the the Government’s plans to weaken the homelessness town hall has been a key feature of the double devolution duty to their plans to remove security of tenure, which that the right hon. Member for South Shields (David would act as a brake on aspiration and a barrier to Miliband) has spoken and written about. It will help employment. enable the big society, the vision of our country described best by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, and it On security of tenure, the Bill will cause instability is a huge step in the right direction of the community and insecurity for tenants. We are concerned about the politics that Liberals and Liberal Democrats have articulated Government taking away the rights of existing tenants. for many a year. Their proposals to put homeless people straight into the private rented sector could lead to a cycle of evictions The Bill frees councils, enables councillors and empowers and further homelessness. We hope that scrutiny of the local communities. For the first time, councils get the Bill in the other place will achieve important changes, power of general competence: the ability to act in any including an accreditation scheme for the private rented area that they think is in the best interest of their local sector. communities. They get extra financial freedoms, and the housing revenue account, long hated by councils In more than 70 hours of debate, we have worked and councillors, is being reformed. We are seeing increased hard to improve the Bill, but much more needs to be rights and responsibilities for councillors, and the end changed and revised. A Bill should not be rushed on to of the ridiculous notion that they can predetermine the statute book when it was not ready to start with, how they act by having an opinion on a local issue when it was not subject to adequate consultation and before going into a meeting to talk about it. We are when Ministers have rejected many sensible amendments seeing the right of communities to buy assets, which put forward during this and earlier debates. Therefore, may be lost to those communities without this Bill, we will vote against the Bill, because we want to send being passed. We are seeing local organisations have the the message that much more change and improvement right to challenge badly performing local authorities for is needed. contracts, and through the ability to hold referendums we are seeing additional democratic checks placed in 6.44 pm our community. Andrea Leadsom: I wish to speak very briefly on For 13 years we have seen that increasing behalf of my constituency of South Northamptonshire. centralisation—an increasing reliance on a top-down I and my constituents thoroughly welcome the Bill, approach to our communities—does not work. We know 461 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 462

[Stephen Gilbert] Cash, Mr William Harper, Mr Mark Chishti, Rehman Harrington, Richard that centralised systems cannot display initiative or Chope, Mr Christopher Harris, Rebecca difference, because they are too big to fail. By dispersing Clappison, Mr James Hart, Simon power throughout the country, we are going to have a Clark, rh Greg Harvey, Nick plethora of different approaches to service delivery, Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Haselhurst, rh Sir Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Alan reflecting the particular needs of local communities, Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hayes, Mr John and that will be healthy for the communities concerned Collins, Damian Heald, Oliver and for the country as a whole. Colvile, Oliver Heath, Mr David Briefly, I should like to turn to my concern, which we Cox, Mr Geoffrey Heaton-Harris, Chris were not able to debate yesterday, about the asymmetry Crabb, Stephen Hemming, John of the planning process. Colleagues will be aware that I Crockart, Mike Henderson, Gordon tabled new clause 4, which would have introduced a Crouch, Tracey Hinds, Damian limited community right of appeal. I am quite clear, Davey, Mr Edward Hoban, Mr Mark however, that the other 18 Members who signed that Davies, David T. C. Hollingbery, George new clause are keen to see work proceed to ensure that (Monmouth) Hollobone, Mr Philip Davies, Glyn Holloway, Mr Adam developers no longer have the whip hand on planning Davies, Philip Hopkins, Kris applications, and I know that the Minister of State, Dinenage, Caroline Horwood, Martin Department for Communities and Local Government, Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Howell, John my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Hughes, rh Simon (Greg Clark) made assurances on plans to address that Dorries, Nadine Huhne, rh Chris concern in the national planning policy framework. It Doyle-Price, Jackie Hunter, Mark was, after all, a manifesto commitment of both coalition Drax, Richard Huppert, Dr Julian partners. Duddridge, James Hurd, Mr Nick I pay tribute to my fellow members of the Bill Committee. Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jackson, Mr Stewart Duncan Smith, rh Mr James, Margot It seemed like a marathon session over many months, Iain Javid, Sajid and indeed it was. I pay tribute to the Clerks of the Dunne, Mr Philip Jenkin, Mr Bernard House who supported us in our deliberations, and to Ellis, Michael Johnson, Gareth the officials, who are already making an early exit from Ellison, Jane Johnson, Joseph their Box. I note that we managed to keep them awake Ellwood, Mr Tobias Jones, Andrew for the past two days. I hope that our noble colleagues Eustice, George Jones, Mr David at the other end of the building are equally able to keep Evans, Graham Jones, Mr Marcus them on their toes. I also pay tribute to the hon. Evans, Jonathan Kawczynski, Daniel Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) and my hon. Evennett, Mr David Kelly, Chris Friend the Member for Southend West (Mr Amess), Fabricant, Michael Kirby, Simon who so ably chaired our discussions, which were broadly Featherstone, Lynne Knight, rh Mr Greg non-partisan—although we saw a little bit of opportunistic Field, Mr Mark Kwarteng, Kwasi opposition from Labour Front Benchers this evening. Foster, rh Mr Don Laing, Mrs Eleanor Fox,rhDrLiam Lancaster, Mark Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third Francois, rh Mr Lansley, rh Mr Andrew time. Mark Latham, Pauline The House divided: Ayes 300, Noes 216. Freeman, George Leadsom, Andrea Freer, Mike Lee, Jessica Division No. 283] [6.50 pm Fuller, Richard Lee, Dr Phillip Gale, Mr Roger Lefroy, Jeremy AYES Garnier, Mr Edward Leigh, Mr Edward Adams, Nigel Blunt, Mr Crispin Garnier, Mark Leslie, Charlotte Afriyie, Adam Boles, Nick Gibb, Mr Nick Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Aldous, Peter Bone, Mr Peter Gilbert, Stephen Lewis, Brandon Andrew, Stuart Bradley, Karen Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Liddell-Grainger, Mr Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Brady, Mr Graham Glen, John Ian Bacon, Mr Richard Brake, Tom Goldsmith, Zac Lidington, rh Mr David Bagshawe, Ms Louise Bray, Angie Goodwill, Mr Robert Lloyd, Stephen Baker, Norman Bridgen, Andrew Graham, Richard Lopresti, Jack Baker, Steve Brokenshire, James Grant, Mrs Helen Lord, Jonathan Baldry, Tony Brooke, Annette Gray, Mr James Loughton, Tim Baldwin, Harriett Bruce, Fiona Grayling, rh Chris Lumley, Karen Barclay, Stephen Burley, Mr Aidan Green, Damian Main, Mrs Anne Barker, Gregory Burns, Conor Greening, Justine Maude, rh Mr Francis Bebb, Guto Burrowes, Mr David Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McCartney, Jason Beith, rh Sir Alan Burstow, Paul Griffiths, Andrew McCartney, Karl Bellingham, Mr Henry Burt, Lorely Gummer, Ben McIntosh, Miss Anne Benyon, Richard Byles, Dan Gyimah, Mr Sam McLoughlin, rh Mr Beresford, Sir Paul Cairns, Alun Halfon, Robert Patrick Berry, Jake Campbell, rh Sir Hames, Duncan McPartland, Stephen Bingham, Andrew Menzies Hammond, rh Mr McVey, Esther Binley, Mr Brian Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Philip Menzies, Mark Birtwistle, Gordon Carmichael, Neil Hammond, Stephen Mercer, Patrick Blackman, Bob Carswell, Mr Douglas Hancock, Matthew Metcalfe, Stephen 463 Localism Bill18 MAY 2011 Localism Bill 464

Miller, Maria Simpson, Mr Keith Benton, Mr Joe Griffith, Nia Mills, Nigel Skidmore, Chris Berger, Luciana Gwynne, Andrew Moore, rh Michael Smith, Miss Chloe Betts, Mr Clive Hain, rh Mr Peter Mordaunt, Penny Smith, Henry Blackman-Woods, Hamilton, Mr David Morgan, Nicky Smith, Julian Roberta Hamilton, Fabian Morris, Anne Marie Smith, Sir Robert Blears, rh Hazel Hanson, rh Mr David Morris, David Soames, Nicholas Blenkinsop, Tom Harman, rh Ms Harriet Morris, James Soubry, Anna Blomfield, Paul Havard, Mr Dai Mosley, Stephen Stephenson, Andrew Blunkett, rh Mr David Healey, rh John Mowat, David Stevenson, John Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hendrick, Mark Mulholland, Greg Stewart, Bob Brennan, Kevin Hepburn, Mr Stephen Mundell, rh David Streeter, Mr Gary Brown, Lyn Heyes, David Munt, Tessa Stride, Mel Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hillier, Meg Murray, Sheryll Stuart, Mr Graham Bryant, Chris Hood, Mr Jim Murrison, Dr Andrew Stunell, Andrew Buck, Ms Karen Hopkins, Kelvin Newmark, Mr Brooks Swales, Ian Burnham, rh Andy Howarth, rh Mr George Newton, Sarah Swayne, Mr Desmond Campbell, Mr Alan Hunt, Tristram Nokes, Caroline Swinson, Jo Campbell, Mr Ronnie Irranca-Davies, Huw Norman, Jesse Swire, rh Mr Hugo Caton, Martin Jackson, Glenda Nuttall, Mr David Syms, Mr Robert Chapman, Mrs Jenny James, Mrs Siân Offord, Mr Matthew Tapsell, Sir Peter Clark, Katy C. Ollerenshaw, Eric Teather, Sarah Clarke, rh Mr Tom Jamieson, Cathy Ottaway, Richard Thurso, John Clwyd, rh Ann Jarvis, Dan Paice, rh Mr James Timpson, Mr Edward Coaker, Vernon Johnson, Diana Parish, Neil Tomlinson, Justin Coffey, Ann Jones, Helen Paterson, rh Mr Tredinnick, David Connarty, Michael Jones, Mr Kevan Owen Truss, Elizabeth Cooper, Rosie Jones, Susan Elan Pawsey, Mark Turner, Mr Andrew Cooper, rh Yvette Joyce, Eric Penrose, John Tyrie, Mr Andrew Corbyn, Jeremy Kaufman, rh Sir Percy, Andrew Uppal, Paul Crausby, Mr David Gerald Phillips, Stephen Vaizey, Mr Edward Creagh, Mary Keeley, Barbara Pickles, rh Mr Eric Vickers, Martin Creasy, Stella Kendall, Liz Pincher, Christopher Villiers, rh Mrs Cruddas, Jon Khan, rh Sadiq Poulter, Dr Daniel Theresa Cryer, John Lammy, rh Mr David Prisk, Mr Mark Walker, Mr Charles Cunningham, Alex Lavery, Ian Pritchard, Mark Walter, Mr Robert Cunningham, Mr Jim Lewis, Mr Ivan Pugh, John Watkinson, Angela Cunningham, Tony Lloyd, Tony Raab, Mr Dominic Weatherley, Mike Curran, Margaret Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Randall, rh Mr John Webb, Steve Dakin, Nic Love, Mr Andrew Reckless, Mark Wharton, James David, Mr Wayne MacShane, rh Mr Redwood, rh Mr John Wheeler, Heather Davidson, Mr Ian Denis Rees-Mogg, Jacob White, Chris Davies, Geraint Mactaggart, Fiona Reevell, Simon Whittaker, Craig De Piero, Gloria Mahmood, Mr Khalid Reid, Mr Alan Whittingdale, Mr John Denham, rh Mr John Mahmood, Shabana Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Wiggin, Bill Dobson, rh Frank Mann, John Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Willetts, rh Mr David Docherty, Thomas Marsden, Mr Gordon Robertson, Hugh Williams, Mr Mark Dowd, Jim McCabe, Steve Robertson, Mr Laurence Williams, Roger Doyle, Gemma McCann, Mr Michael Rosindell, Andrew Williams, Stephen Dromey, Jack McCarthy, Kerry Rudd, Amber Williamson, Gavin Dugher, Michael McClymont, Gregg Ruffley, Mr David Willott, Jenny Eagle, Ms Angela McDonnell, John Russell, Bob Wilson, Mr Rob Eagle, Maria McFadden, rh Mr Rutley, David Wollaston, Dr Sarah Edwards, Jonathan Pat Sanders, Mr Adrian Wright, Jeremy Efford, Clive McGovern, Alison Sandys, Laura Wright, Simon Elliott, Julie McGovern, Jim Esterson, Bill McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Scott, Mr Lee Yeo, Mr Tim Selous, Andrew Evans, Chris McKechin, Ann Young, rh Sir George Shapps, rh Grant Farrelly, Paul McKinnell, Catherine Zahawi, Nadhim Sharma, Alok Field, rh Mr Frank Meacher, rh Mr Michael Shelbrooke, Alec Tellers for the Ayes: Fitzpatrick, Jim Meale, Mr Alan Shepherd, Mr Richard Mr Shailesh Vara and Flello, Robert Mearns, Ian Simmonds, Mark Norman Lamb Flint, rh Caroline Michael, rh Alun Francis, Dr Hywel Mitchell, Austin NOES Gapes, Mike Moon, Mrs Madeleine Gardiner, Barry Morden, Jessica Abrahams, Debbie Bain, Mr William Gilmore, Sheila Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Balls, rh Ed Glass, Pat Morris, Grahame M. Alexander, Heidi Banks, Gordon Glindon, Mrs Mary (Easington) Ali, Rushanara Beckett, rh Margaret Godsiff, Mr Roger Mudie, Mr George Anderson, Mr David Begg, Dame Anne Goggins, rh Paul Munn, Meg Austin, Ian Bell, Sir Stuart Greatrex, Tom Murphy, rh Mr Jim Bailey, Mr Adrian Benn, rh Hilary Green, Kate Murphy, rh Paul 465 Localism Bill 18 MAY 2011 466

Murray, Ian Spellar, rh Mr John Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): No Minister Nandy, Lisa Straw, rh Mr Jack has notified me that they wish to make a statement on Nash, Pamela Stringer, Graham this matter, or indeed on any other matter, but I am sure O’Donnell, Fiona Stuart, Ms Gisela that those on the Treasury Bench will have heard exactly Onwurah, Chi Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry what the hon. Gentleman says. Osborne, Sandra Tami, Mark Pearce, Teresa Thomas, Mr Gareth Pound, Stephen Timms, rh Stephen Business without Debate Qureshi, Yasmin Trickett, Jon Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Turner, Karl Reed, Mr Jamie Twigg, Derek EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Reeves, Rachel Umunna, Mr Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Reynolds, Emma Chuka Order No. 119(11)), Reynolds, Jonathan Vaz, rh Keith Robertson, John Vaz, Valerie MECHANISMS FOR CONTROL Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Walley, Joan That this House takes note of European Union Document Rotheram, Steve Watson, Mr Tom No. PE-CONS 64/10, relating to a Draft Regulation laying down Roy, Mr Frank Watts, Mr Dave the rules and general principles concerning mechanisms for control Roy, Lindsay Whitehead, Dr Alan by Member States of the Commission’s exercise of implementing Ruane, Chris Wicks, rh Malcolm powers, which was agreed by the Council and Parliament at First Ruddock, rh Joan Williams, Hywel Reading and formally adopted by the European Council on Sarwar, Anas Williamson, Chris 14 February 2011; and supports the Government’s approach to Seabeck, Alison Wilson, Phil ensure Member States can examine and scrutinise fully implementing Shannon, Jim Winnick, Mr David acts before they are adopted by the Commission.—(Miss Chloe Sharma, Mr Virendra Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Smith.) Sheerman, Mr Barry Wood, Mike Question agreed to. Sheridan, Jim Woodcock, John Shuker, Gavin Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Skinner, Mr Dennis Wright, David PETITION Slaughter, Mr Andy Wright, Mr Iain Smith, rh Mr Andrew Abduction (Devlan and Caelan Spooner) Smith, Angela Tellers for the Noes: Smith, Nick Lilian Greenwood and Smith, Owen Graham Jones 7.6 pm Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): I Question accordingly agreed to. should like to present the petition of my constituent, Miss Alice Bramall, of Newton Blossomville, which is Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. similar to one signed by 500 of my constituents. The petition states: Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): On a point of order, The Petition of residents of Milton Keynes, Mr Deputy Speaker. On Friday, a Department for Declares that Mr Ken Spooner’s children, Devlan and Caelan, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs written statement were abducted to Zambia by their mother; notes the existence of a said that there would no ban on exotic animals in High Court Order requiring Devlan and Caelan to be returned to circuses, as had been expected. On Monday and Tuesday, the UK. I sought an urgent question on that, and made a point The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons of order on Monday. It transpires that there is doubt as urges the Government to take all possible steps to ensure that the to the accuracy of Friday’s statement. Is it possible for a High Court Order in the case of Devlan and Caelan Spooner is Minister to come to the House to clarify that statement, enforced. because it is almost certainly wrong? And the Petitioners remain, etc. [P000922] 467 18 MAY 2011 Power Line Technology Devices 468

Power Line Technology Devices leak interference to some extent, but when electric wiring is used to carry broadband, the levels of interference Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House become a significant problem. do now adjourn.—(Miss Chloe Smith.) I have met constituents who are experts in the field. 7.7 pm They can walk down the street with a radio and pinpoint which households are using PLT devices just from the Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): It is a noise emanating from the buildings. We are talking pleasure to introduce this timely and important debate about the pollution of the 21st century. In previous in the House. Hon. Members who are intrigued by the centuries, we have fought smog with campaigns for title will perhaps read the first paragraph, so I should clean air, and now we are seeing a battle for clean sum up the debate by highlighting my concern, and that airwaves. My constituents are not alone in their concerns. of many organisations: Ofcom, and indeed successive As I said, there is a chorus of consensus on this issue. Governments, have adopted a reactive approach to the The Civil Aviation Authority has expressed concerns increasing interference from power line technology devices. about the threat posed to its instrument landing systems. We urge the Government to take a more proactive One briefing note states: approach. “The CAA is concerned that interference originating from the The area that I represent could be deemed to be the legitimate operation of PLT could adversely impact aeronautical home of radio communication. Milton Keynes, which critical systems. Furthermore, it appears that should this occur, it includes the famous code breakers’ base Bletchley Park, may not be possible to resolve in a timely and safe manner.” was integral in intercepting enemy messages during the Even if the effects of the PLT are mitigated—I will second world war. The city is surrounded by listening come to that later—the probability of interference is stations—one of which, the Foreign and Commonwealth reduced to 1%, which might sound low, but in aeronautical Office’s Hanslope Park, continues to protect our country terms it is still a significant safety risk. The threat posed to this day. to aircraft safety by radio interference has been taken Radio is paramount not just in preserving national very seriously in the past. For example, in October security; nor is it merely the preserve of outposts around 2009, in my neighbouring constituency of South West Milton Keynes. Across the world, such technology remains Bedfordshire, Ofcom paid a visit to 12-year-old Nickie essential to all communication. The spectrum is invaluable Chamberlain in Leighton Buzzard. His TV booster in so many ways: to television, radio, mobile phones, aerial, which was faulty, was emitting interference that the emergency services, the military and security services, caused pilots at nearby Luton airport to complain. hospital pagers, pilots’ landing systems, and many more. Ofcom acted quickly. Shortwave radio has proven time and again to be a Even NATO has investigated the effects of PLTs on vital back-up when other communication systems crash its equipment. One report states that the noise coming in the aftermath of natural disasters or terrorist attacks. from PLT devices For example, radio was used in the immediate aftermath “has the potential to cause problems for military HF (high of the attack on New York on 9/11, and in 2005 radio frequency) radio communications and communication intelligence was used to co-ordinate the relief effort following Hurricane in all NATO countries”. Katrina. However, there are fears that the efficiency of The Radio Society of Great Britain has been highlighting radio communication is being jeopardised by the concerns about PLTs’ unwanted noise for 10 years. It development of new technologies, specifically those clearly states that known as power line telecommunication devices. PLTs use a home’s mains electricity wiring to route internet “it will not be possible to recover the damage done to the spectrum unless action is taken very quickly”, and television around a household without using a data cable. As electricity wiring was not designed to carry and that this “invaluable natural resource”—the spectrum— radio signals, an unwanted by-product—interference—is “is being consigned to history”. emitted. That rasping hiss has the power severely to The BBC has also commissioned investigations into the disrupt radio communication. effects of PLT devices. The most recent, published in GCHQ, the BBC, the Civil Aviation Authority and March, described the “tearing” sound of the PLT, which even NATO are some of the bodies that have spoken at best was annoying and at worst made a broadcast out about PLTs’ power to interfere with, and therefore programme incomprehensible. impede, their highly essential work. We and our constituents However, the most damning indictment so far has might never have heard of PLTs or the noise they emit, come from GCHQ, which deemed PLTs but every single one of us is affected by, and relies on, radio, so this debate is relevant to us all. “likely to cause a detrimental effect to part of the core business of this Department.” As I said, PLT devices use the radio spectrum to send data signals via mains electricity supplies, and tend to In a statement issued on 10 March, it concurred with come in the form of large mains plugs that can share the others’ view that the interference from these devices internet between computers or high-definition television “was likely to pose a safety of life risk”. between rooms, providing an alternative to lots of cables It concluded that PLTs in the home. Most commonly they are provided by BT Vision packages, and it is estimated by the regulator “should not be available for sale/use within the EU”. Ofcom that there are about 1.8 million pairs of the However, when I asked, in a written question, for the equipment in use. In fact, the UK is one of the biggest Minister’s opinion on that statement, I was informed users of in-home PLT devices in Europe. As mains that it had, intriguingly, been withdrawn. Just as PLTs wiring was not designed for carrying radio signals, PLTs have an odd effect on surrounding radios, the issue has cause it to leak radio signals into the air. All appliances had a curious effect on the associated authorities. GCHQ, 469 Power Line Technology Devices18 MAY 2011 Power Line Technology Devices 470

[Mark Lancaster] Another problem is that Ofcom is basing its stance on the current situation, not future projections. However, as I said, expressed an unequivocal stance on the issue, the interference caused by PLTs is set to get worse, for but then withdrew it. Ofcom, too, is behaving rather various reasons. First, more and more people will sign strangely. up for television and internet packages that use PLTs, All electronic devices must adhere to the essential which are set to figure highly in the YouView package requirements—the Electromagnetic Compatibility due to be launched next year. One report, which I will Regulations 2006—which are based on the European discuss shortly, estimates that the number of PLT users electromagnetic compatibility directive. Ofcom was advised per square kilometre will increase from 159 in 2010 to a in a report it commissioned by ERA Technology in massive 703 in 2020. Secondly, as different PLT September 2008 that: manufacturers compete to provide better services the interference will get worse, because they will be using a “It is considered that the Ethernet Power Line Adapters do not greater part of the spectrum. They are already veering meet the Essential Requirements of the EMC Directive; emissions into the very high frequency range, which has reportedly could potentially cause interference to communications equipment.” increased interference. Thirdly, PLT devices are being However, Ofcom maintains that PLTs are not in breach, discussed as a way of communicating information about because it has investigated 227 complaints, and all but energy usage as part of smart grid technology, or as a one have been resolved by BT engineers. There are, way of providing data-linking between appliances around however, many problems with this methodology. First, a house. these are isolated cases and small-scale investigations. Ofcom’s stance on PLT devices is also at variance However, the report bases findings on results from with the conclusions of a report that it commissioned scientific experiments in the controlled conditions of PA Consulting Group to undertake in June 2010. Ofcom electromagnetic compatibility test laboratories. claims that the current situation is acceptable because Secondly, as I hope my hon. Friend the Minister will there are fewer complaints, in spite of a higher uptake agree, complaints tend to represent the tip of the iceberg. of PLT units. Conversely, however, the PA report said: If one receives 10 complaints about an issue, they are “there will be a high probability of interference to some existing likely to be indicative of scores of other qualms. Thirdly, spectrum users…if PLT device features do not change from those what has happened shows that Ofcom is taking a reactive currently implemented”. and not a proactive approach. Rather than heeding its PA recommends that in future, inference will be staved own commission’s report, which says that PLTs do not off only if devices are manufactured with mitigating comply with the directive, and then seeking out breaches, features such as power control. I would be grateful if it is relying on people to approach the regulator. Why is the Minister could say whether that has been put in Ofcom judging PLTs’ compliance not by the results of place. PA also says: scientific experiments, but by the number of complaints “notches in the VHF aeronautical radio navigation bands should that it has received? What other industry would prove be mandated”. the regulatory compliance of its products in that way? Does the Minister know whether that has taken place? If mitigation is so essential, what does Ofcom propose The crucial point for my constituents is that Ofcom to do about devices that are already in use—the ones says that there are no relevant standards when it comes that are circulated second hand or manufactured abroad, to PLTs and that it is waiting for the EU to formulate a none of which will have mitigating technology? The PA “harmonised standard”. The Minister recently told me report warns: in answer to a parliamentary question: “it should not be assumed that the existing installed base is “The Regulations do not set specific levels of interference”.— traceable or could be updated to incorporate these features”. [Official Report, 10 March 2011; Vol. 527, c. 1199W.] Moreover, what investigations have taken place into However, there is a standard: EN 22022, which is listed the efficacy of notching, considering that it is disputed under the EU electromagnetic compatibility directive—or whether this technique actually works? The Radio Society EMC directive—for controlling interference from data of Great Britain says that these technologies are “unproven” communication products such as PLTs. and that “in the home their effectiveness in reducing interference to radio Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The hon. Gentleman services will be much reduced”. has mentioned health and safety on a number of occasions I would like to know whether the Minister has liaised in his presentation to the House this evening. Does he with his colleagues heading up the excellent Digital see local government as having an enforcement role in Britain initiative. The current fibre-to-the-cabinet broadband responding to health and safety issues? upgrades that are being rolled out—some in my constituency, which is very welcome—share part of the same spectrum as PLTs. A report by the European Mark Lancaster: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid Telecommunications Standards Institute showed that point that perhaps the Minister will address when he PLTs can interfere with this new technology. BT may winds up. well be rolling out products that do not work alongside The EN 22022 standard includes a threshold that has each other. been agreed internationally for decades, and the ERA The problem is not without precedent. Every time a test report said that PLTs exceeded it. In fact, the new technology is introduced, it impacts on existing acceptable level of interference was surpassed by 30 dB. technology, not least in the world of radio communications. I am told that that equates to 1,000 times the interference In the early 1890s, spark transmitter radios were all the power that any other domestic product is permitted. rage, until the cacophony became overpowering and Why are we waiting for a new standard when there is legislation had to be introduced. Fifty years later, when already one in place? cars and televisions were new and exciting inventions, 471 Power Line Technology Devices18 MAY 2011 Power Line Technology Devices 472 people’s television pictures could be distorted by the delivery of digital services, including broadband access, spark plugs of a passing car. Soon after, suppressors smart metering, and television services from companies were introduced for all cars. such as BT. One of the practical benefits of PLT is that In 2011 we are replete with electronic devices. We it frees the user from a fixed location. want to do everything faster, and simultaneously. We It is acknowledged that as PLT moves to higher want to watch our high-definition televisions while surfing frequencies, above 30 MHz, there is increased potential the net and using our smart phones. The radio waves for interference, although as my hon. Friend pointed are crowded, competing with one another. We have an out, this is the case not just with PLT but with a wide electromagnetic compatibility directive that has hitherto variety of new and emerging electronic systems. Experiments kept interference in check. The Department says that by the BBC indicate there is some potential for localised the directive does not specify acceptable interference interference. In practice, however, the evidence from levels, but the standards that it lists do, and experts in people using the devices suggests that this problem is the field have been using them for many decades. The negligible. There are 1.8 million devices in service in the aforementioned ERA report shows that PLTs inherently UK, but the number of complaints has been confined breach that threshold. to a couple of hundred over the past three years. I shall Ofcom seems to place great importance on the fact turn to those in a moment. It is worth bearing in mind that the complaints have been received from users of that those complaints are centred on a specific group of shortwave broadcasts and hobby radio users, but the users, principally hobby radio amateurs, including those security services can pick up the shortwave broadcasts using citizens’ band radio. That is not to say that this of terrorists, pilots use shortwave broadcasts to help group is not important, but it suggests that the nature of them to land their aircraft, and ships have sent distress the problem is confined. The experience in the UK is signals half way across the world using these frequencies. reflected elsewhere. For example, following complaints We need to clear the way for such essential radio messages in Germany, the authorities investigated the situation, to be made or traced, and not allow their paths to be but declined to ban any products. In Austria, following blocked by radio pollution. a product challenge brought by the official regulator, Will the Minister acknowledge that this is an issue of the courts rejected the claim of non-conformity. great concern? Will he promise to base his stance on In common with most electronic products sold in the PLTs not merely on the number of current complaints, UK, power line technology equipment is required to but on the results of scientific experiments, on the comply with the Electromagnetic Compatibility Regulations conclusions of expert reports based on well-established 2006, which are based on the European electromagnetic interference limits, on the strength of feeling from experts compatibility directive of 2004. The essential requirements, in the field, and on the projections for the future number which I know the House will want to understand, are and usage of these devices? Will he also instigate some that PLT equipment, to quote that regulation, form of market surveillance? Instead of reacting only to individual complaints, will he initiate a holistic assessment “shall be designed and manufactured, having regard to the state of the art and good engineering practice, so as to ensure that the of the proliferation of PLTs? Will he reconsider the fact electromagnetic disturbance generated does not exceed the level that there are thresholds in place for interference, and above which radio and telecommunications equipment or other that PLTs currently do not meet those standards? Finally, equipment cannot operate as intended.” will he liaise with other Departments to press for category 5 broadband cables to be installed in all new homes as The current regulations, as we have heard, do not set standard? This whole issue strikes me as a result of specific levels of interference; rather, they set objectives short-termism, with homes having to be retrofitted with to ensure that properly designed radio systems will technology. There is no reason why we should not plan operate when other electrical equipment, such as PLT ahead and create a suitable data infrastructure, rather apparatus, is in use. The regulations are trying to remain than continuing with unsuitable piggybacking on existing flexible as this technology develops and adapts. Equally, technology. not imposing a mandatory fixed standard allows the regulatory environment to adapt as experience of the use of this new technology emerges. 7.22 pm My hon. Friend referred to EN55022, and I am sure The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation most Members are no more familiar with it than many and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I congratulate my hon. Ministers have been over the years. Let me explain that, Friend the Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark following discussions between the European Commission, Lancaster) not only on securing this important debate member states and the industry, it was agreed that this but on his highly informed speech. I will try to respond standard could not apply to PLT equipment for a to the specific points that he has raised, but perhaps it variety of technical and administrative reasons. The might help the House if I first set out some background Commission has therefore asked the European standards on power line technology products, the Government’s organisations to adopt an appropriate standard. Until policy on this matter and the potential impact for the such time as a standard is available—it is logical that it radio spectrum. will affect both the UK and the wider markets in which The main applications of power line technology are British manufacturers work—manufacturers will need in home networking—we are all familiar with local area to design products that meet the objective, taking into networks—as well as smart metering, with which we are account key issues such as the extent of knowledge, the becoming increasingly familiar, and home automation. requirements of other users of the spectrum—an important This is a global technology, responding to consumer principle—good engineering practice and the state of demand, and we see it being used not only here in the the art. This does mean that, for a period, there will be a UK but in the rest of Europe, in the United States and lack of absolute certainty as to what is acceptable. Let in Australia. The use of PLT enables the increased me be clear, however, that should products be placed on 473 Power Line Technology Devices18 MAY 2011 Power Line Technology Devices 474

[Mr Mark Prisk] subsequently been withdrawn. I am advised that the statement does not reflect the position of GCHQ, which the market that do not meet the objectives of the has informed my Department that PLT is not currently regulations—in other words, they cause unreasonable affecting its capability. interference—those manufacturers should expect The CAA has now specifically stated that it does not enforcement action to be taken. endorse or support the comments in the withdrawn Let me explain how enforcement works before coming GCHQ statement to which my hon. Friend referred. I on to the specific issues about GCHQ and others. In the accept that it is important to safety in aerospace, which United Kingdom, enforcement of protection of the he rightly mentioned, for all potential risks to be considered radio spectrum for radio amateurs is now the responsibility carefully, and the Government are clear about that. The of Ofcom, while the BBC is the relevant enforcement CAA tells me that at present it has no evidence that a authority for interference to commercial broadcasts. problem exists, but this is a new technology, and I can Ofcom takes a proactive approach to its enforcement tell my hon. Friend that the CAA intends to undertake role, but it can take action, like any regulator, only further testing as the higher-frequency products emerge where non-compliance can be shown. on the market. As my hon. Friend has already stated, in June last When I looked into the issue in preparation for the year Ofcom commissioned an independent study, “The debate, I was encouraged to learn that the Ministry of Likelihood and Extent of Radio Frequency Interference Defence, the police and the fire and rescue, ambulance, from In-Home PLT Devices”, better to understand the coastguard and lifeboat services have all reported no technical aspects behind its impacts. The study broadly complaints about interference. That breadth of evidence concluded that, provided that PLT equipment entering seems to me to support the conclusion that the problem the market continues to advance technologically—this is limited to a particular group of people. It is not a case is the key point—there will be a “negligible” probability of complacency; it is, as I know my hon. Friend will of interference to the majority of spectrum users in the understand, a case of trying to judge the proportion of coming 10 years. We all need to bear in mind that these the risk. advances in technology are often driven by consumer My hon. Friend raised the important question of demand, as my hon. Friend rightly pointed out, and by co-ordination in the context of the development of the desire to produce more energy-efficient and therefore category 5. The Digital Britain team emanated largely cheaper devices. from my Department, and we have close links with it as Mitigation techniques include fixed notching—limiting well as the Department for Culture, Media and Sport transmission to a part of the radio spectrum; smart and the Department for Transport. Ofcom tells me that notching—an automated scanning of the spectrum for it regularly consults all the relevant public and private free space; and power saving. In response to concerns stakeholders, including GCHQ, the CAA and the Radio raised by amateur radio users, including CB, their bands Society of Great Britain. are subject to fixed notching. As the use of PLTs and My hon. Friend asked whether category 5 broadband higher frequencies becomes more common, this situation cables would be installed as standard practice in all new might be revised and additional mitigation techniques homes. I am advised that that initiative was part of the such as smart-notching could well become more prevalent programme of the Digital Britain team. It must be said and be applied more widely. This is likely to coincide that although dedicated cabling may be the best engineering with the development of a European standard. solution, it is not generally practicable to install it in Let me deal now with complaints. Between July 2008 existing homes without significant cost or disruption. and March this year, Ofcom received 228 complaints For new build and rewiring it may make sense, but the that were attributed to PLT devices. To be fair, this rising cost of copper may make it prohibitively expensive. needs to be seen in the context of about 1.8 million As with all potential sources of interference in the pieces of PLT equipment supplied here. All the complaints radio spectrum, users, especially those with the potential about PLT have been referred to the supplier for resolution to affect security and safety-critical systems, we take and all except one have been resolved. Furthermore, I our responsibilities seriously. The current regulatory am advised that all the complaints were received from regime is more flexible than some users may wish it to hobby radio amateurs. Ofcom rightly points out that be, but that is for a good reason. As I have said, it must amateur radio licensees do not have an absolute legal be able to adapt to changes in technology and its use. right to an absolutely “clean spectrum”. It is also worth The Government intend to monitor the situation carefully, noting that the number of complaints received over the principally via Ofcom. Ofcom will continue to address last 12 months has been significantly less than during any complaints that arise, but so far it has concluded the previous 12 months—from 147 down to 53—even that the technology complies with the requirements of though, as my hon. Friend said, there has been an the legislation, and that the few instances of difficulty increasing rate of supply of this equipment. should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. My hon. Friend mentioned his constituent in the While the Government will continue to pay attention Bedford area. Reference to problems caused by television to the concerns of complainants, we believe that a ban aerial boosters serves to remind us that many products on PLT products would be wholly disproportionate. Let in common use do cause problems. In this instance me put it simply: our approach is to be vigilant in Ofcom was able to take prompt action, which I think is monitoring the situation and proportionate in enforcement. a sign that it is not being merely reactive. Question put and agreed to. Let me now deal with more serious issues relating to GCHQ and the Civil Aviation Authority. The GCHQ statement was issued by a staff member without proper 7.35 pm authority, and contained inaccuracies. It has therefore House adjourned. 77WH 18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 78WH

makes securing a Westminster Hall debate these days Westminster Hall far trickier than it was in the past. Nevertheless, last week’s debate focused primarily on the European directive Wednesday 18 May 2011 on human trafficking, so I hope that we can cover some new ground today. Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I [MR DAVID CRAUSBY in the Chair] apologise, Mr Crausby, for not being able to stay until the end of the debate. In last week’s debate, a point was Human Trafficking raised about there being an independent voice for children. Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting Does my hon. Friend agree that it is important that be now adjourned.—(Jeremy Wright.) there is an independent voice to support children in legally challenging the UK Border Agency, the police 9.30 am and other statutory or voluntary agencies, when the actions being taken are not in a child’s best interests? Mr Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con): It was only four short years ago that the United Mr Field: I have particular sympathy with that point, Kingdom reflected on the 200th anniversary of the not only because children are particularly vulnerable, Abolition of the Slave Trade Act 1807. At the time, but because having people acting in loco parentis in the among all the self-congratulatory celebration, I suggested way in which my hon. Friend has described is a well-known that our renewed focus should be on refreshing our legal process. resolve to tackle the modern equivalent of slavery—human It is important that we do not simply use the debate trafficking. Human trafficking involves the recruitment, as an opportunity to produce an hysterical portrayal of transfer and harbouring of men, and particularly women the problem or to condemn Governments, past or present, and children, so that they can be exploited for forced for a lack of progress. I accept that this is an immensely labour, sexual services or domestic servitude. It is the complicated issue; it obviously has legal bearings, as my most unpleasant by-product of globalisation in the hon. Friend has suggested, and it touches on many labour market and now scars each and every constituency. parts of our system from policing to immigration, The modern-day slaves that human trafficking has justice, housing and social services. I wish, however, to created are voiceless and vulnerable. They are stowed in encourage a measured debate about how we can best the untouched shadows of our communities. They exist create an environment that is hostile to traffickers. I also not just in the seedier corners of my central London want to send out a clear message that we are firmly on constituency or of Manchester, because the backdrop the side of the victims. to their exploitation can equally be the sprawl of suburbia, In discussing human trafficking, I want to pay tribute the fields of our countryside or even the beaches that to parliamentarians past. The erstwhile Member for line our shores. The means of their subjugation are Totnes, Anthony Steen, has probably done more than varied. Sometimes, there is violence, but traffickers might anyone to raise the profile of trafficking at the parliamentary equally threaten to harm a victim’s family; they might level. He founded the first all-party group on the issue enslave people through debt; they might reduce them in 2006, and he continues to work as the chairman of through shame; or they might manipulate them through the Human Trafficking Foundation, which is based at deception. Blackfriars in my constituency. I played a small part in As illicit ways to make money go, trafficking can be bringing Anthony together with the City of London perceived as comparatively low risk. A busy brothel corporation to ensure that the foundation was based in with five to 10 girls in central London, for example, can a high-profile place in central London. I cannot hope to make £20,000 a week, without the violence and risk emulate Anthony’s incredible passion for, and knowledge associated with the illicit drugs trade. As for those with of, this subject, which he displayed in an extremely even baser motives, trafficked victims working outside detailed debate that he led in the dying embers of the the established sex trade are attractively difficult to previous Parliament, but I hope that our discussion detect. pays homage to some of his work. Whenever we approach a subject such as trafficking, In putting my speech together, I was aware of the people inevitably demand numbers, so that they can imminent publication of the Home Office strategy on grasp the scale of the problem. Unfortunately, as we all human trafficking, which was promised in the spring, know, reliable statistics are difficult to come by. Some but which may now be released in June, owing in part to people contend that the number of trafficked victims is pre-local election purdah. I hope that the debate will very low, while others contend that the figures are prove timely and will, along with the strategy, help to grossly underestimated. As a covert crime, trafficking is create momentum by raising public interest and reigniting inevitably incredibly tricky to measure. the will to tackle trafficking more robustly. I also hope that it will serve to clarify what progress the Home David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I congratulate Office has made since October, when a number of the hon. Gentleman on this important debate, and we Members, including some in the Chamber, raised legitimate have had numerous debates on this issue in the Chamber. questions about the Government’s strategy in the debates The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Government strategy marking anti-slavery week. that will soon be published, and I do not condemn the A debate that took place as recently as last Monday Government for having a strategy, but it is action that helped to raise the issues before us, and I hope that the we need. Children in the United Kingdom are being Minister will not find this morning’s proceedings too sold on the streets at £15,000 or £16,000 a time, which repetitious. I put in for this debate some weeks ago, but, is an utter disgrace. We surely need action and some alas, the unquenchable enthusiasm of the 2010 intake serious penalties for these crimes. 79WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 80WH

Mr Field: I entirely agree. In fairness to the Government, that that tiny child was trafficked from Germany before it is important that we have a framework in place, but, being drugged and sacrificed in a ritual killing, his torso as the hon. Gentleman has said, any framework is dumped in the Thames. Lucy Adeniji, a Church pastor, pointless if action does not follow. One hopes that the has been recently sentenced for trafficking two children robust measures that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned and a 21-year-old woman to work for her as domestic will form an integral part of what the Government slaves, locking them up and regularly beating them. propose shortly. There is no uniform story for those who have been Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): I apologise for trafficked. Some of the markets in which they circulate being able to stay for only half the debate. Does my are closed to outsiders. Victims are often disconnected hon. Friend share my concern that with the various from mainstream society, so they find it incredibly policing reforms we will lose some of the more targeted difficult to seek help. Others may fear the consequences approaches to prosecution and the identification of of coming forward, whether that is punishment by their victims, such as Pentameter 1 and 2 and Operation oppressor or, indeed, the UK authorities—many victims Golf, which were very effective in these difficult and are illegal immigrants and fear deportation, for example. complex areas of prosecution? Migrants do not always understand that they have been trafficked, or they may be reluctant to reveal to strangers Mr Field: My hon. Friend makes an extremely good the full picture of their ordeal. Of course, some also point, which bears witness to what I said earlier about embellish their experiences in the hope that their case this not simply being a policing matter but one with a will be looked on more kindly by the British authorities. focus on justice and social services, housing and the The most recent study of the number of women work of local authorities. The most important thing to trafficked into off-street prostitution, Project Acumen, learn is that solving the problem needs a multidisciplinary released its findings last August. Conducted by the approach. Association of Chief Police Officers, it aimed to improve A pernicious trend emerged in my constituency of our understanding of the nature and scale of the trafficking vans depositing women and children by Knightsbridge of migrant women for sexual exploitation. It estimated—as tube station in the morning to be picked up in the I have said, we must always include a caveat with any evening after a lucrative day’s begging. A couple of figures—that 30,000 women are currently involved in years ago, police raided properties in the constituency off-street prostitution. Of those women, 17,000, or more of the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) to than 50%, are migrants, with 2,600 believed to have crack down on Romanian and Bulgarian gangs who been trafficked. Most were not found to have been had trafficked children to pick the pockets of Londoners subject to violence, but many were debt-bonded and in my constituency and beyond. strictly controlled. A further 9,600 women were considered Tackling adult trafficking is co-ordinated, as the Minister vulnerable, but fell short of what police officers regarded knows, by the UK Human Trafficking Centre, which as the trafficking threshold. was set up five years ago to bring together a range of Acumen examined off-street prostitution in part because stakeholders—police forces, the UK Border Agency, it is relatively easy to identify. Its organisers have to non-governmental organisations and so on. It acts alongside balance subtlety with the need to advertise their “product” UKBA as one of the competent authorities for the in a competitive marketplace. Nevertheless, criticism national referral mechanism. has been levelled at the study from some quarters. As a result, I do not intend to use it as an unimpeachable Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The Government benchmark, but rather as the best, and probably the have signed up to the directive on human trafficking, most recent, research we have in what, as I have said, is which is good news, but they have refused to appoint an a shadowy sphere. independent rapporteur who would have overseen it and ensured that they fulfilled their obligations. Does Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): the hon. Gentleman feel that that should be done as a Is the hon. Gentleman as concerned as me about other matter of urgency? statistics, which estimate that 80% of the 8,000 women who work in off-street prostitution in London alone are Mr Field: I confess that I do. It is important, and I foreign nationals, many of whom started to work as hope that the Minister will specifically pick up that prostitutes, or were indeed forced into prostitution, point, because in this shadowy world beyond what one when they were still children? might regard as the normal scrutiny of the political process, it is all the more important that the voiceless Mr Field: I am very concerned about that issue, and I are given a distinct voice of the kind that the hon. will come to it a little later. As the hon. Lady will Gentleman has described. understand, my speech focuses on my constituency, and The national referral mechanism is a framework for I have become aware of the extent of this problem identifying victims of human trafficking and ensuring through my dealings with local councillors and local that they receive appropriate care. It essentially means police in central London. that if the police, social services or NGOs believe that As I have said, the figures are pretty sketchy, and the they have encountered a trafficking victim, a referral is grim reality of the experience tends to smack us in the made for a decision on whether they qualify for a place face only when a case comes before the courts or in a Ministry of Justice safe house for 45 days. The because a raid has taken place in our constituencies. A 45-day period is designed to allow the referred person recent example here in London is the grizzly ongoing to recover and reflect on whether they wish to co-operate case of a five-year-old Nigerian boy, who was identified with police inquiries, return to their country of origin only in March, 10 years after his murder. We believe or take other action to get their life back on track. 81WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 82WH

The situation with child trafficking victims is slightly Fiona Bruce: My hon. Friend has referred to local different in having its focal point with the trafficking authorities, and one local authority department that unit of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection has an eagle eye on what is going on in property is the Centre. Its work is assisted in the London area by planning or development control department. Perhaps Paladin, a dedicated team of Metropolitan police officers we have missed a trick in not involving them in the and UKBA staff based at Heathrow, who are tasked partnership working of locating properties in which with stopping child trafficking through the entry points such activity is happening. into London. Profiled compellingly by Bridget Freer in April in The Sunday Times magazine, Paladin is an Mr Field: My hon. Friend is right. She has a background absolutely tiny team with an enormous remit. as a lawyer, and I am sure that she dealt with such There are many deep concerns about the effectiveness problems on a day-to-day basis in her former career. As of the approach being taken. UKHTC has been absorbed I see in my constituency, the reality is that agencies are into the Serious Organised Crime Agency, a move criticised generally only alerted to these issues when there is a on the basis that the sheer size of SOCA dilutes the tip-off from local residents—for example, we have all sense of purpose in dealing with human trafficking. been contacted by people who live next door or very With SOCA due to be replaced by a national crime near to a brothel. I suspect that a significant number of agency, where do we anticipate UKHTC being placed? safe houses—safe from the perspective of traffickers— operate for months or years without being detected. Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): I thank my hon. Friend for securing this debate, and I, too, must apologise Fiona Bruce: Those properties are often residential that I have to leave before its end. Does he agree that the properties in which a business is being run, and if that reorganisation has exacerbated the problem of the happened with many other types of business, the local re-trafficking of victims, which needs to be urgently authority would take immediate action due to the addressed? So many victims, who are initially secured in contravention of planning legislation. More initiative a safe house, are returned and re-trafficked by the very and activity from planning officers in that respect would people from whom they were saved. greatly assist us. Mr Field: My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. One difficulty, even with the 45-day cooling-off Mr Field: My hon. Friend’s point is well made, although, period, is that a probably tragically high proportion of without wishing to defend the planning officer fraternity those who go through that process become known to too much, I suspect that the phenomenal financial the authorities later for other human trafficking matters. constraints that most local authorities find themselves under mean that they are not necessarily prioritising The NRM has been rightly condemned for the quality this area, but it is important that we put those concerns of the decisions, the poor impression given to victims, on the record. the lack of an appeals process and the failure to gather comprehensive data on the scale of the problem. There is concern, too, that insufficient resources are directed Tom Brake: My hon. Friend is being generous in at policing teams. In April 2009, for example, the Home giving way. He has discussed different organisations Office decided to discontinue funding for the Met’s needing to be educated about the problem, so that they human trafficking unit—the only specialist police human can tackle it more effectively. Does he agree that when trafficking unit in the country. The Met has since allocated the elected police and crime commissioners take a portion of its own budget to continue its trafficking responsibility for policing, it will be essential for them work and to set up specialist crime directorate 9, which also to understand the importance that people place on is the human exploitation and organised crime unit. I tackling human trafficking? That should not be neglected. recently met Detective Superintendent Mick Duthie to discuss his work. There are now 38 people in his team, Mr Field: I am not sure that I want to go too deeply but their remit takes in not only trafficking, but a range into concerns about precisely where that legislation of other street problems, vice, kerb crawling, casino goes, not least given yesterday’s comments by the Deputy fraud, money laundering and obscene publications, which, Prime Minister, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right. as one might imagine, are massive problems in their If one considers the populist element of electing police own right in the mere 6 square miles of my constituency. commissioners, I hope that everyone—not only MPs, One wonders whether the other problems are crowding but interested residents, constituents and citizens—will out trafficking. make it plain that the problem needs to be tackled; We all appreciate that these are times of great financial indeed, it might be part and parcel of the manifestos of austerity, and there is no realistic expectation of huge would-be candidates for such a role. additional funding any time soon. The SCD team tries The Government have declared human trafficking to to be creative by setting up joint investigation teams and be a coalition priority; I mentioned earlier that we await applying for EU funding streams, for example, but there a new strategy that will shortly step up our efforts in are huge budgetary pressures, not least as trafficking that regard. We recently put our name to the EU investigations tend to be complex and lengthy, with directive on trafficking, so the UK has signed up to overseas elements adding substantially to the costs. various obligations. Nevertheless, and without wishing Detective Superintendent Duthie is convinced that to pre-empt the strategy, I want to put some of my more must be done to educate police officers, local thoughts to the Minister. authorities and health workers to spot the signs of It is quite clear from my work on the subject that the trafficking. Sometimes, the different teams that come current disparate, multi-agency approach has a multitude into contact with victims do not get the right information of fundamental flaws. I have alluded to some of those from them or pick up the trafficking indicators. flaws, which others also recognise. Some are the result 83WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 84WH

[Mr Mark Field] was championed by Anthony Steen, was referred to earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton of the inherent difficulty in dealing with such a complex and Wallington. I note from last Monday’s debate that and varied problem. However, the Government should the Minister is not convinced of that route, believing consider making a few reasonably small improvements. that local authorities are best placed to fulfil the The notion of a one-stop shop was put to me by guardianship role. With local authorities under the Detective Superintendent Duthie as a means of improving most enormous budgetary pressure, how will the Minister the treatment of trafficked victims and the collection of ensure that that duty is being fulfilled, and can he intelligence. Victims tend to have a variety of needs, and convince all stakeholders that the Government are not at the moment they are dealt with by a huge range of merely absolving themselves of responsibility? organisations based in different places. A one-stop shop—a I am reminded of the problems encountered by my human trafficking centre, as it were—might assist in local authority, Westminster city council, where there dealing with health, housing, legal aid, counselling, was a marked increase in homelessness following EU immigration, repatriation, family reunification and more. enlargement in 2004 and 2008. It had terrible difficulty I wonder whether the Minister would let us know his extracting additional funds from the Home Office to thoughts on that idea. deal with the localised effects of a national policy. As a When researching the subject in advance of this quick aside, I secured a debate here some four years ago debate, I was struck by the poor information available and the Home Office—at that juncture we had a Labour on the internet of all places. If I were a trafficked Government—mysteriously arrived an hour before the victim, the first resource that I would use to find a way debate with cheque in hand. I accept that these things out of my situation would be the internet. Although a can happen— one-stop shop might be seen as too expensive, has the Home Office or any other body considered setting up a Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I hope it presence on the internet that would provide easy, happens again. comprehensive and readily available advice to trafficked victims on how to report their experience and, more Mr Field: That is wishful thinking. It would probably importantly, how to escape? As things stand, information have to be the right hon. Gentleman making the speech. is dotted across a range of sites, which is incredibly In a similar way, the matter of trafficked children is confusing. probably bearing more heavily on certain local authorities. Earlier, I mentioned Paladin, the police unit tasked For example, I imagine that the London boroughs of with identifying trafficked children at London’s ports. Hillingdon and Hounslow take a great number of the Concern has been raised by the recently ennobled Baroness children that come through Heathrow. If the guardianship Doocey about alternative trafficking routes. Her fear is role is to be taken on by local authorities, will the that Paladin’s vigilance at Heathrow and other points of Minister assure hon. Members that, if there is evidence entry might persuade traffickers to use other routes; in of certain areas being badly affected, those local authorities particular, she is concerned that there are no specialist will be adequately funded and not be forced to choose child protection officers working full time at St Pancras, which of the competing aspects of child protection to even though that station is within Paladin’s remit. fund? I have referred to the Government’s commitment to Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): I making human trafficking a coalition priority, but there congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. is concern that the slipping time scale for producing a He has touched on routes into the UK. Does he agree robust anti-trafficking strategy is pushing some of the that we also need to establish the source from which best experts away. The Minister may have seen a report many of the unfortunate victims of trafficking come? If by Mark Townsend in The Guardian this weekend on it includes the small number of nations that have recently the loss of key UK staff in this area—it is an excellent joined the EU, we need comprehensive discussions and piece. A former police officer, one of the most senior negotiations with those member states to ensure that figures involved in investigating trafficking, reportedly the tap is switched off at source. stated that one of his greatest concerns is the lack of continuity in the Home Office team. Mr Townsend also Mr Field: I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. It highlighted concerns that the inter-ministerial group on would be wrong to suggest that the entirety of the trafficking has met only once. I would appreciate hearing problem is caused by the 10 nations that joined the EU the Minister’s response to these specific criticisms. over the past seven years, particularly Romania and Does the Minister believe that an independent rapporteur Bulgaria, to which I referred earlier. However, it is to track our progress on tackling trafficking—such an clearly a substantial problem, and the relatively open appointment was suggested last Monday by my hon. borders in much of the EU play a part. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone)—might I was discussing St Pancras. Eurostar has relatively prove useful in reassuring those who criticise the lax controls, and children under the age of 12 can travel Government by introducing a genuine sense of unaccompanied from Brussels and Paris, so long as accountability? they have a letter from the parents or guardians. Have In last October’s Westminster Hall debate, it was the Government considered making points of entry suggested that we should have a Pentameter 3, Pentameters 1 more robust, not only at St Pancras but in those parts of and 2 being two police operations to raid brothels, the country not covered by Paladin? massage parlous and private homes where trafficking Turning to the EU directive, one of its key requirements was suspected. The idea is that Pentameter 3 would is to provide every trafficked child with a court-appointed send out the message that we are and continue to be guardian to look after their interests. That idea, which tough on traffickers. The fact has been highlighted that 85WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 86WH precious few operational police units specifically target The hon. Member for Derry—[Interruption.] Forgive trafficking. I appreciate that those matters are essentially me—given my particular Irish descendancy, I cannot operational police matters, but I wonder whether the easily stick “London” in front of “Derry”. The hon. Home Office has had discussions with the police teams. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) said Yet more issues could be covered today, such as the that we must be robust with the new EU member states role of the Crown Prosecution Service, the responsibilities and any others that may be trafficking people into this of local authorities and details of how the UKHTC country. I agree with him, but is not the real robustness operates. Unfortunately I do not have time to touch on that we need on the demand side? These women—girls, them, as others wish to speak. children even—are here only because honest British men think that if they put down £20, £30 or £50, they Without being able to assess accurately the extent of have a God-given right to the use of a woman to put the problem, I accept that it is difficult for any Government their penis into at will. I am sorry to use such strong to be sure of the level and type of resources that are best language, but we must face up to the fact that unless we suited to tackling it. It is all too easy to ignore trafficking. tackle demand, the supply will continue to increase, and In short, if we do not go looking for the victims, we can all the words that the Minister will say—I do not for a too easily pretend that they are not there. When money second doubt his sincerity and I understand that he is is tight, the problem can only get worse. I sincerely hope working within terrible financial constraints—will come that today’s debate will give some small voice to that to nought and we will be having this debate next year forgotten group of the most vulnerable in our midst, and the year after that. and that it will provide the Government with an opportunity to reassert their commitment to rooting out this most We have laws. Without opposition from the Minister, despicable ill. who was in his shadow post at the time, my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) and other former Ministers changed the law to say that it is a 9.58 am crime to pay for sex with any person who may have been Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I congratulate coerced or forced to work as a prostituted woman. To the hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster my knowledge, and I stand to be corrected, there has (Mr Field) on securing this debate and on making an not yet been one single arrest, prosecution or conviction excellent speech. I should make it clear at the start that I using that new law. The police have the ability to go into consider this an all-party matter, but the fact that it is massage parlours and brothels—they are not that hard an all-party campaign does not mean we should let the to find; a couple of phone calls and they can find where Government off the hook. to go—and challenge the men and put them in front of magistrates courts. Those men should be named and I have been enjoying reading the Foreign Secretary’s shamed. It is not just a certain French gentleman in biography of William Wilberforce. There are some parallels. New York who should attract all the attention—and Wilberforce started his campaign to eradicate slave yes, I know that he is innocent until proved otherwise. trafficking in the late 1780s. It took a long 20 years—with There are hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of ups and downs such as fighting a little war against British men who are clients of this trade. They are Napoleon, and having to divert money to other causes— providing the demand and the money. The police must before the legislation came into effect, and a number of be asked why they have not used their powers. decades passed before other countries followed suit. I regret the shutdown of the different police agencies We are at the start of a long campaign, and certain dedicated to trafficking and their absorption within the fundamental issues must be addressed. I invite the Serious Organised Crime Agency, which is to face a Minister, who has a wholly responsible approach to this further dilution. The police are there with every energy matter, to reread his speech to the House of Commons in the world to tackle driving offences and to find out in 2008 in which he made a powerful plea for guardianship, how many points somebody has or has not got on their an increase in resources to the Human Trafficking Centre, licence, and to take part in other worthy investigations. and more joined-up work between local authorities and None the less, the language of Government should be the police—all the points that were made by the hon. the choice of priorities. I put it to my colleagues here Member for Cities of London and Westminster. It was and to the Minister—not in a critical way—that the a compelling speech in which he attacked and criticised police have not focused hard enough on this matter. We my right hon. and hon. Friends who were then in the do not know the figures and I do not want to enter into Home Office. the figures debate. The hon. Member for Cities of Sadly, the Minister is now in the position of having to London and Westminster cited some that were available, resile, deny and turn back almost everything that he but as he acknowledged, they have been widely criticised called for at the time. We have shut down the UK by other expert groups. We could have a row on figures, Human Trafficking Centre. Pentameter is no more, and but suffice it to say that we are talking about a substantial we will not appoint a guardian. After six months of number; it is not just one or two people, as this odd campaigning—I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the organisation the English Collective of Prostitutes claims, Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) with occasional support from journalists as well. for that—we have signed up to the EU directive, but We need a rapporteur. Appointing an individual and without the core element in it of a rapporteur. However, giving them a task to achieve can change policy. We we cannot sign up to a directive without finding the need to have a guardian for each child taken into care. I resources to give effect to it. Moreover, it requires us to can produce the figures on the children who disappear work collaboratively across the European Union. There from care. Children are put into care in Hillingdon, again, for good or ill, we have a Government who prefer from Heathrow; their traffickers come round, and out not to work collaboratively to build a stronger EU and they go through the door—obviously we cannot lock stronger cross-border policing and judicial procedure. up a child—to work as sex slaves. 87WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 88WH

[Mr Denis MacShane] virtual and the Government, having shut down the support for Eaves and the POPPY Project, are now Moreover, we must change the culture of making the potentially giving it hundreds of thousands, if not victims of trafficking into associate criminals. The approach millions, of pounds. I put it to the Minister gently—I of the Home Office and the UK Border Agency is to respect him—that that is opening the way for a scandal catch and deport. The figures can then be produced. It further down the line. happened under Labour because of the mass hysteria I also worry that the National Register of from some organisations and the right-wing press. Almost Unaccompanied Children, which was set up in 2004, any foreigner in Britain was unwelcome; it was said that has been shut down. Why? We have still got children there were too many of them. We have this tick-box leaving care—in Rotherham, Hillingdon, London and culture of wanting to report the numbers that have been elsewhere—and we also have the problem of deported. Of course, women are the most vulnerable; unaccompanied minors coming into the UK. My view they are easy to catch and deport. is that no airline should be allowed to fly somebody under the age of 14, possibly even under 16, if they are Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): The right hon. unaccompanied. There is also the problem of St Pancras. Gentleman makes some good points about how the We had the remarkably complacent answers in the system treats children. Is it not a scandal that according Lords from the noble Earl Attlee, saying, “Oh, there’s to ECPAT, children are more likely to be convicted of no problem, they’re all checked when they get on the offences—often they are forced through their trafficked train and go through passport control in Paris or Brussels.” status to commit offences such as growing cannabis—than For heaven’s sake: any of us who have gone through the the perpetrators themselves? maelstrom of getting people on to the Eurostar train as quickly as possible know that the notion that the hard- working officials in Paris or Brussels—I do not criticise Mr MacShane: It is a scandal, and I am grateful to them—are spotting potentially trafficked children is the hon. Lady for making that point. This question of ludicrous. It is exactly that complacency that is the criminalising the victims is one that should shame us. I problem. know that it is hard because everybody loves to kick the immigrant, the asylum seeker, the economic migrant I will finish there, as other colleagues want to speak. and the person here without papers, and they are easily There are other points that I want to make, but I think victimised. We even had the noble Lord Glasman saying there will be further debates on this issue. My sense is in Progress Magazine that Labour lied about immigration. that the House of Commons is seized of this issue. My He is a Labour lord accusing the Labour Government hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone)—I of telling lies. We may have got some things wrong, but call him my hon. Friend and my colleague—is not here he was expressing the notion that Ministers had lied. in Westminster Hall today, but he is one of my heroes That was the language of the election and it is a culture because he is working so hard on this issue, as did that we need to change. Anthony Steen. Indeed, Anthony Steen is still continuing his work on combating human trafficking. I have visited In his 2008 speech, the Minister eulogised the work of his offices down at Puddle Dock, and I thank the hon. Eaves and its POPPY project, which was a standard-bearer Member for Cities of London and Westminster for and a model. The Conservative party was right behind helping to arrange those very good facilities there. it and called on the Government of the day to give it I put it to the Minister that the debate on this issue more resources. I am now extremely distressed to find will continue, and I invite him to make a name for that Eaves is being shut down and its money handed himself on it. I also invite him to read the Foreign over to a religious organisation that has its proselytising Secretary’s biography of Wilberforce, and to try to put and evangelising duties. I have worked closely with himself in the shoes of that great Yorkshire MP at the many church charities, so I am not condemning it. end of the 18th century. Everybody, independently of None the less, we now have a mono-religious organisation, party affiliation, will appreciate it if there is substantial the Salvation Army, being told that it must be in charge change on human trafficking on this Government’s of women from different cultures and different faith watch. However, as is apparent from the points I have backgrounds. I am not criticising the Sally Army for made, I am concerned that we are going backwards, not one second; it is a great outfit. However, it is not forwards, on this issue. appropriate for it to replace the Eaves organisation and its POPPY project. 10.13 am The Salvation Army wrote to MPs—I do not know if it wrote to all MPs or just those who are interested in Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): combating human trafficking—to say that it is now Thank you, Mr Crausby, for calling me. It is a great going to transfer hundreds of thousands, if not millions, pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. of pounds to an outfit called STOP UK. I have tried to I want to start by applauding the work of Members— find out about STOP UK. It has a website, but that is current and former—from all parties in this House who all. It has no publications and there is no board of have championed the fight against human trafficking. I directors. It has a chief executive whom I think works in was elected just over a year ago, and there have been the Serious Organised Crime Agency. One of the big many opportunities since then to debate this issue and problems with victims of human trafficking is that they to raise concerns with the Minister responsible for need to be dissociated from potential police and criminal dealing with it. investigations for being prostituted women. STOP UK As was outlined by the hon. Member for Cities of has a couple of people with mobile phones, and I tried London and Westminster (Mr Field) in his excellent to call them. It has an office somewhere in south London. opening speech, the slave trade was abolished in our I do not doubt the sincerity of the outfit, but it is almost country 200 years ago, but another form of slavery has 89WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 90WH emerged since then. It is a more clandestine and immigrants” when they are in fact brought here, often underground form, but it is just as insidious and brutal. against their will, and forced into the most horrendous Unfortunately, it is also pervasive in modern Britain. type of work? Thousands of vulnerable people, mostly women and I want to say more about the protection of victims, children, are being trafficked into our country this year. which my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham As the hon. Gentleman said, we do not have a grip on also mentioned. I am deeply concerned that the POPPY the figures for the number of people involved. Nevertheless, project’s funding has been withdrawn and given to behind the figures are real lives. Tragically, many of another organisation that I am not sure has the project’s these women and children come to the UK on the specialism and experience in helping the victims of promise of a better life, only to find on arrival that they trafficking. Human trafficking is a hugely complex issue, are imprisoned and forced into slave labour or prostitution. and it is sometimes very difficult even to help these The criminal gangs and pimps who trade these women women talk about their experiences, because they have consider them to be like second-hand cars—like a been so violently abused. I worry about the rationale for commodity.According to some estimates, each sex trafficker withdrawing the funding for the POPPY project. Can earns an average of £500 to £1,000 per woman per the Minister explain why the funding was stopped for week. It is the most unimaginable treatment of one that organisation, which has great expertise in this field? human being by another, that they should think of people and treat them in this way. I turn to the Olympics. International sporting events are a magnet for pimps and traffickers—that is the The Observer recently highlighted the case of a 17-year- evidence from elsewhere in the world when there have old woman, Marinela Badea, who was abducted from been Olympics or World cups. Can the Minister say Romania, trafficked to Britain and forced into prostitution. what measures the Government are taking to ensure She was repeatedly raped, violently abused and held that the rise in demand for prostitution as a result of captive. Her experience is indicative of what happens to London’s hosting the Olympics next year—and, therefore, thousands of trafficked women in our country and the rise in human trafficking that will also unfortunately across the developed world. It is a great victory that her happen—will be dealt with? Have the Government traffickers are now serving the longest sentence for considered whether they could work with hotels and, if human trafficking ever imposed in British history, but it so, how? Hotels often turn a blind eye to prostitution, is extremely rare for the perpetrators of this horrible and the Government could raise their awareness of the and hateful crime to be caught and brought to justice. fact that many women in prostitution have been brought Prosecution rates are pitifully low, and proactive policing across borders and forced into it. operations to root out trafficking, such as brothel raids, are apparently being scaled down. Now, 200 years after the abolition of the slave trade, this Government and future Governments have a great Like other Members, in all parties, I am concerned responsibility to root out this modern, pervasive form that the Home Office is not doing enough to tackle this of slavery. I would like reassurance from the Minister most egregious human rights abuse. The new anti-human that the Home Office and the wider Government are trafficking strategy, which was promised earlier this taking the matter seriously enough. year, is late. Can the Minister explain why there has been a delay, and say when we are likely to see it? I echo the comments of Members from all parties: the words 10.20 am in that strategy and in the new EU directive on human trafficking, which the Government have finally opted Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): into, are welcome. However, it is the actions taken It is a pleasure to be here under your chairmanship, because of those words that count, and by which we Mr Crausby. I compliment the hon. Member for Cities need to judge them. of London and Westminster (Mr Field) on his excellent analysis of the issues, particularly of prostitution, and The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster of the scale of the problems we face in dealing with made such an excellent opening speech that I fear I what is a very well organised, multinational business in might repeat some of the points he made. Nevertheless, the criminal fraternity. Sometimes that business has I want to echo what he said about the concern, expressed technologies way beyond those available to even the in recent reports, that key specialists in this field have forces of Government. left the Home Office human trafficking team. As the hon. Gentleman said, there is real concern at the lack of No community is untouched by the problem. Small, continuity among the staff taking on this important peripheral communities on the edges of cities are very issue. Moreover, the inter-ministerial group on human attractive to people who are trafficking and setting up trafficking has met only once since the election of the brothels. It is amazing where brothels pop up, and how present Government. What does that say about this ill-equipped the police are to distinguish between communal Government’s resolve and seriousness regarding human living by immigrant workers and the very common trafficking? phenomenon of people being used for sexual exploitation—people who go into the cities in the evenings There is also evidence to suggest that many victims to ply their trade and come back to live in houses of escape their traffickers but are then classified as “illegal multiple occupation. immigrants”—a problem outlined by my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane). The debate is about not just prostitution but all types We must ensure that that does not happen. Can the of human trafficking, and I will make my speech in Minister reassure the House that something is being that context. The question for me, and for the Minister, done to ensure that victims are properly identified and is: are the Government equipped to carry out the treated as such, rather than being put down as “illegal responsibilities that they are about to take on by opting into the human trafficking directive and signing up to 91WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 92WH

[Michael Connarty] Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab): My hon. Friend makes a compelling argument the directive on sexual exploitation and abuse of children? for the Government looking seriously at the issue of a There are very serious concerns about that. In a debate formal guardianship programme for children. in the House on 9 May, the Minister said: Some of the statistics have worried me. I am sure that “We are confident that the UK is compliant with those my hon. Friend is aware of the 2007 ECPAT UK report measures.”—[Official Report, 9 May 2011; Vol. 527, c. 977.] that found that of 80 children trafficked over an 18-month period 56% had gone missing from the north-east, the He was talking particularly about measures to do with north-west and the west midlands. That shows the scale trafficked children, and I want to challenge him on that of the problem, and although the report is from 2007 I statement. I do not believe that the UK, using local do not believe that things have improved much since. A authorities under the present arrangements, is equipped 2009 Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre— to deal with the problem of the trafficking of children, CEOP—report identified 325 potential victims, 23% of many of whom are trafficked for other reasons but whom have gone missing without trace. It is unacceptable many of whom, sadly, are trafficked for sexual exploitation to carry on with that situation. of various kinds. I refer Members to the article in The Sunday Times of Michael Connarty: If we had the facilities and the 3 April 2011 about a woman who was multiple- teams, those statistics would pop up in any region in the trafficked—three or four times—in and out of the UK UK. Voluntary organisations that are in touch with and back to her home country. She was treated as a such people, but are not formally responsible for them, criminal and not as a victim, and that also happens with can give a large number of worrying figures. children. On Sunday 15 May 2011, The Observer highlighted ECPAT UK points out that children from China, something that we have been aware of in the all-party Vietnam and Nigeria are consistently ranked highest in group on human trafficking: the collapse of the Home CEOP national referral mechanism statistics, but there Office structure to focus on human trafficking. The have been no trafficking convictions of people who hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster traffic child victims from any of those countries, and talked about the specialist police force, which has been there are no specialist child trafficking police units left. absorbed—some say swamped—due to the changes that More trafficked children have been convicted by the the Home Office is making. courts for cannabis-related and other offences than have child traffickers for trafficking, as the hon. Member The all-party group had a meeting last week, during for Stourbridge (Margot James) said earlier. CEOP, the which we were supposed to be addressed by the director only Government agency to produce reports on child who was setting up the response from the Home Office trafficking, has disbanded its child trafficking unit, and and the UK Border Agency, but we received an apology the United Kingdom Human Trafficking Centre has saying that he had been sacked seven weeks previously never published any reports on child trafficking. The as part of the cuts in the Home Office. So the person Government say that they are going to go in and match who is organising the team has gone, and the people the best in the EU, if not the world, but they are who are supposed to be in it have gone. Where are the ill-equipped to do so. Government travelling? They are travelling in one direction, because of political pressure, into the EU directives, but I wish to refer in more detail to something I have in the other direction they seem to be stripping away the mentioned a few times in debates: the report of Scotland’s very facilities we require, and that troubles me. Commissioner for Children and Young People. Despite being a commissioner in Scotland, the commissioner is ECPAT UK is very keen on having formal guardianship part of the UK structure. I hope that the Minister has that is not just a local authority’s social work department read the April 2011 report, because it has recommendations being given charge of young people and putting them for the UK Government. It expresses deep concerns into what Barnardo’s referred to, when it spoke to the about having multiple responsibilities in the UK Border all-party group two or three weeks ago, as “just bed and Agency, and states that with guardianship there is conflict breakfasts”. The young people are not supervised, and regarding the responsibilities of local authorities. many of them run away and are picked up and trafficked The report recommends that the UK Government into some other environment. should have a rapporteur and go and look at other There is a huge ring in the Chinese community. European countries that have such people to look at Respectable Chinese businessmen that we meet in our Governments’ performance and oversee whether they business community meetings often use people who are just all talk and no action. It also recommends a have been trafficked from mainland China, and do not guardianship scheme, and clearly refers to the overarching pay them. One man, who came to see me after a speech, responsibility that we have because we signed up to the had been trafficked out of mainland China 11 and a Council of Europe convention on sexual abuse and half years previously. He lives in communal housing. exploitation of children. We have, however, not ratified He has been moved all over the UK and now lives in a that convention, and can therefore avoid doing anything. house in Armadale in my constituency—now that I We have put a signature on paper, but have not followed have said “Armadale”, he will probably be whisked it up with resources. away somewhere else. He does not receive wages; he is I hope that many of the report’s recommendations told that he is still paying back the cost of his trafficking. will be considered, including that for an independent There are thousands like him: every time one of my rapporteur on trafficking. The report also suggests that local restaurants is raided, trafficked people are found. the Government should consider the values of the The industry is massive, and we are not equipped to guardianship scheme being run as a pilot by the Scottish deal with it with the facilities that we have. Refugee Council and the Aberlour Child Care Trust 93WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 94WH and seek a guardianship that satisfies ECPAT’s expectations for example—means that the quality of our trafficking without necessarily being as burdensome as the Government strategy is less good than that of many countries that think it will be. we would expect to outperform. Apart from words on paper, will the Minister give us some examples of why the Government believe that Mr MacShane: My hon. Friend mentioned the London they are capable of dealing with child trafficking and School of Economics. Is she aware of its feminist political some indication that we can train police forces to see it theory course, taught by Professor Anne Phillips? In not as an extra but as fundamental to their duties? They week 8 of the course, students study prostitution. The must see trafficked children as victims—I mean children briefing says: up to the age of 18, not just children of four or five, or “If we consider it legitimate for women to hire themselves out as young as Baby P—and treat them as victims, which as low-paid and often badly treated cleaners, why is it not also means looking after them properly. legitimate for them to hire themselves out as prostitutes?” If a professor at the London School of Economics cannot make the distinction between a cleaning woman 10.30 am and a prostituted woman, we are filling the minds of Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): As is usual on this our young students with the most poisonous drivel. subject, we have had an excellent debate with a great deal of consensus among Members of all parties. I Fiona Mactaggart: I share my right hon. Friend’s thank the hon. Member for Cities of London and view about those attitudes. I hope that the LSE provides Westminster (Mr Field) for bringing this subject before sufficient contest to Professor Phillips’s frankly nauseating the House once again. As he pointed out, it was an views on that issue. accident that we discussed it only last week, but it is To return to victim care, one of my absolute concerns often helpful for Members of Parliament to be able to is that victims should be supported to be identified as follow up on a previous debate. Some issues in the last victims. I am anxious that the national referral mechanism debate were not resolved, and I hope that when the requires a referral, through a multi-tick-box questionnaire, Minister responds, we will hear some of the answers by an appropriate authority, does not accept all attempts that have been re-requested during this debate. at referral and does not always make good decisions. I welcomed the hon. Gentleman’s call for a multi-agency, During our recent debate, I asked the Minister whether one-stop approach. I agree that we need a strategy: not he would ensure that the new victim care organisations—the just broad aims, but specific commitments. In order to Salvation Army and its subcontractors—were supported deliver that as the House and society would want, we in challenging decisions under the national referral need a rapporteur of sufficient independence for everyone mechanism if victims were not initially identified as to have confidence in the information that they produce. such, and that they were funded to support those people. I welcome all those aspects of his remarks. The experience of the POPPY project is that many My right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham trafficked victims were not originally given reasonable- (Mr MacShane) reminded us that to tackle trafficking, grounds decisions or conclusive decisions on their trafficking we must have an effective strategy for driving down status. demand for the products of trafficking. I was concerned The Minister reminded me that to hear his remarks about STOP UK, and I hope that “support providers are asked to, and helped to, provide information the Minister will deal with that in his response. about victims’ experiences and circumstances to the competent My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton authority precisely to ensure that the correct NRM decision is North East (Emma Reynolds) reminded us that the reached”.—[Official Report, 9 May 2011; Vol. 527, c. 994.] women and children involved in trafficking are treated I hoped, in the cut and thrust of debate, that that was a as commodities, like used cars. It is not enough for us to positive answer, but my view on reflection is that it is say the right words across parties; we need action to not. I would like a specific commitment from him today tackle the problem, and specifically action to prevent that if an organisation supporting a victim helps that the threat coming to London along with the Olympics victim challenge a decision by the NRM, it will be in a year’s time. funded to support the victim. One of the tasks of such My hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East organisations, if they believe professionally that someone Falkirk (Michael Connarty) remarked on the Home is a victim of trafficking, is to advocate on their behalf Office’s problems in managing the process and advised with the competent authorities. I hope that he can give us of the opportunity to consider whether what Scotland us that assurance. is doing on child guardianship can provide models or In addition, I am concerned, as are other hon. Members, lessons for the rest of the United Kingdom. about the transparency of the process. The Serious In my view, we are a little complacent about our Organised Crime Agency has not produced an annual quality of victim care. I was rather shocked to read a report since Jacqui Smith was Home Secretary. We do research report by the London School of Economics not have any compelling data about decisions under the and the university of Goettingen suggesting that the NRM or enforcement actions taken by police. One United Kingdom was less effective than Albania at reason for calling for a rapporteur is to ensure that such tackling human trafficking. The reason why the report data exist. came to that conclusion involved our treatment of The Minister suggested that the role of rapporteur victims. Most of the study was done while the POPPY could properly be fulfilled by the inter-ministerial group, project, which we all admire, was providing victim the NRM and the United Kingdom Human Trafficking services, but the researchers felt that the UK habit of Centre. At the moment, that is not happening. Will he convicting the victims of trafficking—we have heard make a commitment during this debate to a specific about children being convicted of cannabis cultivation, mechanism for ensuring transparency? Unless we have 95WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 96WH

[Fiona Mactaggart] Strategic national interventions that are properly directed can protect people more effectively than a strategy and a formal rapporteur charged with providing that the warm words that we are able to produce in this transparency, we cannot properly interrogate what the Chamber. I believe that we are all on the same side, but Government are doing. we need a strategy to ensure that the shared ambition to A specific example is the disappearance of children eradicate this modern form of slavery actually works in from care, which Members have mentioned. If we believe practice. that local authorities are providing adequate guardianship services, can we please have a national study of how 10.43 am many trafficked children are in local authority care and The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green): Like of which local authorities lose children and how many, others, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for and a report to Parliament on how those issues are Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field) on securing handled? this debate, which, interestingly, follows a previous debate The Minister makes a reasonable point when he says on this issue. I should point out that it was not an that it is possible for the directive’s guardianship accident that the Government called that previous debate, requirements to be fulfilled by local authority because I made a commitment that we should have responsibilities. I think that that could be possible. I am proper scrutiny when we decided to opt in to the European not saying that his decision to do that is mere penny- directive. pinching—although it obviously is, partly because of This is a matter of undeniable significance to both pressure on funds—but it cannot be done under the Houses. Many thoughtful points have been raised today, present arrangement, because so many local authorities along with one or two slightly less thoughtful ones. I are, frankly, incompetent in this area. We do not know pay tribute to my hon. Friend and to Anthony Steen—it how many are involved or which ones are making good has become almost compulsory and certainly de rigueur progress. I hope that the Minister will commit to that, to pay tribute to him in debates such as these—for all because without that kind of transparency, any claim to his work. I also thank the hon. Member for Slough fulfil a rapporteur-type function is unfounded. (Fiona Mactaggart), who speaks for the Labour party, My final concern relates to the role of the police. My for her extremely constructive and thoughtful contribution. hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk She and I disagree about individual details, but what mentioned how Vic Hogg was invited to address the she said at the end of her speech is exactly right. We all all-party group on the trafficking of women and children, need to be—indeed, we all are—fundamentally on the but did not turn up because apparently, at the last same side on this issue. We are discussing how best to moment, he did not have a job. I have spoken to eradicate trafficking as much as possible. My hon. representatives from civil society organisations involved Friend said in his introductory remarks that it is much in this field. They feel that meetings with the Home better to conduct this debate in terms that are not Office to discuss the strategy have been frustrating, hysterical, which, as we progress, will be important not disorganised and unclear. only for our debates in this House, bur for debates among wider groups that are concerned about the issue. I do not believe that the Minister wants a disorganised and unclear strategy—I am not accusing him of a A wide range of issues have been raised this morning. deliberate policy. Nor do I believe that he wants to Members have reflected on the complex nature of tackling exclude those excellent organisations—ECPAT UK, the human trafficking. Many have acknowledged the challenges POPPY Project, the Salvation Army, the Medaille Trust inherent in tackling this appalling crime. Britain has a and so on—from contributing to the strategy. I am good record, under Governments of all hues, of tackling concerned, however, that there is a real risk, because the it, and this Government intend for that to continue. I former strategy was extremely specific and connected am, however, happy to acknowledge that we can always police operations, which have been the most powerful improve. Indeed, it is striking that, while many Members way of discovering the extent of trafficking. have paid tribute, as do I, to the work of the POPPY Project, the hon. Member for Slough produced a report The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster that says that Britain is doing worse on victim care than has pointed out how the research is not very good, Albania. I think that that point was designed to gain an because the subject is an illegal activity. Actions by the effect rather than to offer a truthful analysis of what is police have been more effective. They have illustrated going on, but it illustrates the complexities and difficulties. more powerfully the range of trafficking and where it is The Government are rising to the challenge of developing to be found, and have led to some successful prosecutions. more sophisticated ways of tackling traffickers in the I am concerned that, at present, we do not have any changing landscape of organised crime, while continuing, nationally directed operations, and that the consequence of course, to care for the victims of this trade in human of that will be that we will lose expertise among the misery. I listened eagerly to many of the contributions. police. It is clear that the subject of trafficking is close to the I hope that the Minister can reassure us that, even if hearts of many Members. I acknowledge the point that the Home Office does not wish, at present, to direct our work should be transparent and responsive to criticism, police forces to mount those kinds of national operations, when that criticism is well founded. it will support and enable them to do so. Without Operation Golf, the excessive trafficking of children Mr Field: Does the Minister accept that one of the from the town of Tandarei in Romania, many of whom key problems that we all face in our efforts to raise the were trafficked into my constituency, and the grotesque profile of this issue is that, to be brutally frank, there profits made by criminals in that town, would have are no votes in it? All too often, some of the people who continued unabated. suffer most are regarded by many of our constituents as 97WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 98WH a troublesome problem. It is, therefore, all the more identification is an area that can always be improved, important that we utilise this opportunity. I hope that and the NRM was set up by the previous Government the Minister does not see politics as a platform for his for that purpose. In the first 21 months of its operation, views and that he can try to do something fairly constructive. more than 1,250 potential trafficking cases were referred I hope that he will keep that in mind as he continues his to the NRM by a range of front-line agencies, and our speech. expert decision makers went on to grant a period of reflection and recovery in 65% of the cases decided. We Damian Green: My hon. Friend has made a good remain committed to working with partners to ensure point. This is not an issue that tends to gain huge that our arrangements for identifying and protecting headlines or create partisan politics, and nor should it. victims constantly improve. This is, therefore, an opportunity for Ministers and My hon. Friend recommended having a one-stop Governments simply to seek to do the right thing by shop to gather intelligence and care for victims. I will some very vulnerable people. obviously think about that but, at the moment, the Let me move on rapidly to address all the individual strategy has been to draw on the expertise of anti-trafficking points that have been made by my hon. Friend and groups to develop a support system that offers victims a others. I reassure him that the work that was done by more diverse range of services and enables more providers the UK Human Trafficking Centre will continue unaffected. to support victims of this crime. That has been the basis The UKHTC plays an important role in our overall of the approach up to now. The new victim care efforts to combat trafficking, and the Government are arrangements, which have been referred to, will mean committed to ensuring its continued success. When it that the Salvation Army is responsible for the co-ordination became part of the Serious Organised Crime Agency, and contracting of victim care and will ensure that all much work was done to ensure that the UKHTC retained identified victims receive support based on their individual its unique role, character and identity. That includes its needs. Those arrangements continue to be in line with focus on victim care and its competent authority role in the standards set out in the Council of Europe convention. identifying victims as part of the national referral It is important to bear in mind that victims must not mechanism. Merging the UKHTC into the national be compelled to share information with the police in crime agency will not affect its important work or order to access support services. The hon. Member for change its focus in any way. Specifically, as part of the Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) has referred NCA, the UKHTC will benefit from being able to draw to the POPPY project. I reassure her that money has on the resources and intelligence of the wider organisation, not been taken away. A new contract is being let and we while retaining its focus. are having a different model. Rather than one provider During the debate, it struck me that two contradictory doing everything, the Salvation Army will act as a demands were often made in the same speech: first, that gateway to other providers, so that a wider range of we need to work much better across different parts of expertise is available. the police, between police forces and between the police and different agencies; and, secondly, that specialist Emma Reynolds: Is it not the case that the resources units should be set up. There is clearly a tension between available for that contract are much reduced compared those two entirely legitimate demands. I am sure that with what was given to the POPPY project? hon. Members from all parties recognise that. Damian Green: Straightforwardly, no. That is simply Michael Connarty: The Scottish commissioner identified not the case. It is one of the areas that has been that dealing with trafficking is seen as additional work protected. While I am talking about the Salvation Army, within police forces. If specialist organisations are absorbed I strongly reject the comments about that organisation inside larger police forces, dealing with the matter will made by the right hon. Member for Rotherham clearly become a marginal activity, particularly for those (Mr MacShane). As he knows, I agree with many of the forces that are currently being slashed and are losing things that he said, but his attack on the Salvation 20% of their resources. Army was deplorable. He seemed to suggest that a faith-based organisation could not deal adequately with Damian Green: That is precisely why it needs to victims of other faiths or of no faith. That is a disgraceful become a mainstream activity, which is what the strategy thing to say. If he is saying that a Christian-based is designed to achieve. organisation is not capable of fulfilling such a role, that is anti-Christian bigotry and he really should be ashamed My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London of himself. and Westminster has referred to the national referral mechanism, as have other hon. Members. The NRM is Mr MacShane: For heaven’s sake! The Minister is a framework designed to make it easier for agencies—the rather spoiling a good debate. I am appalled at the police, the UK Border Agency, local authorities and bigotry against the Eaves organisation—the POPPY non-governmental organisations—involved in a trafficking project. Yes, I do believe that an organisation based on case to co-operate, to share information about potential women is best suited to help trafficked women from victims and to facilitate their access to support. The different faiths. That was my point. I said on the record framework is designed precisely to achieve the kind of that I have nothing but praise and respect for the coherence that we are seeking. Salvation Army. It is the decision to remove the money The expert decision makers—the competent from Eaves and the POPPY project that is deplorable. authorities—are based in the United Kingdom Human Trafficking Centre and the UK Border Agency, and we Damian Green: When he reads the record, the right are committed to ensuring that there are multi-agency hon. Gentleman will wish to reflect on what he actually working arrangements in both. I recognise that victim said about the Salvation Army. 99WH Human Trafficking18 MAY 2011 Human Trafficking 100WH

[Damian Green] If there is any suspicion that a child arriving at St Pancras is at risk, UKBA will refer to the appropriate The separation between sharing information with the authorities. Specifically, Operation Paladin’s coverage police and access to services is important in ensuring extends to St Pancras. that victims can reflect and recover, and to engage with law enforcement if and when they feel safe enough to do Michael Connarty: Will the Minister give way? so. The strength of our approach to tackling human trafficking lies in its diversity and in having the UKHTC as our repository for collecting data and the NRM to Damian Green: I apologise to the hon. Gentleman, draw together all those who may be involved in a but I have many points to respond to that were made in trafficking case to make the right decisions on victim the debate. status. However, I recognise the importance of ease of The issue of re-trafficking has been discussed. That is access to the information that is available to victims of precisely why, as a key part of our new strategy, we will trafficking on how to report their experiences, as a be working much more in the source countries—the number of hon. Members have mentioned. In that sending countries. I am sure that we all accept that regard, my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London prevention is better than cure. That has been lacking, and Westminster recommended having a website for all and it is something that we will address in the new the relevant information. I suggest that, given the situation strategy. Much criticism has been based on the lack of in which many victims find themselves, access to a provision of information across agencies, and another website may not be the most useful solution. Victims of key part of the new strategy will be to improve our forced prostitution might be locked in basements and performance in putting information around the system. will not have access to any basic services, let alone the The right hon. Member for Rotherham has mentioned internet. STOP UK, which is indeed one of the organisations In response to my hon. Friend’s points about the that will be part of the Salvation Army’s supply chain. Metropolitan police’s human trafficking unit, the previous It has satisfied the procurement requirements so far but, Government decided to discontinue that funding, which obviously, I will take what he has to say seriously. The was provided on a time-limited basis, because they hon. Member for Slough asked about NRM decisions believed that trafficking work should be mainstreamed and support providers. As I have said, support providers into the Metropolitan Police Service budget, as it is core advocate for victims in the provision of care and ensure police business. The team’s expertise was therefore not that competent authorities receive the information that lost and reorganisation ensured that it retained its capability they need to make the right decision. Although there is to support victims and mount investigations against no appeal system for the NRM, the decisions can be trafficking. judicially reviewed. I agree with my hon. Friend in congratulating the Let me move on to child guardians and the national team that runs Operation Paladin, which acts as a point rapporteur. I know that hon. Members found the previous of expertise and guidance for all UKBA officers and debate useful. We will, of course, be applying to the Metropolitan police officers. It is important to note that European Commission to opt into the directive. The although Paladin is a Met-UKBA joint operation, advice directive contains a number of important provisions on is not only restricted to the ports in London. Paladin the issue of child guardians. Local authorities already offers an advisory service and routinely offers support have a statutory duty to ensure that they safeguard and to officers outside the London area. A specific point has promote the welfare of children. So it is not, as some been made about St Pancras. Of course, all passengers hon. Members have suggested, an additional burden on arriving at St Pancras have been cleared for immigration them. Can local authorities do it better? Absolutely. I purposes at juxtaposed controls in France and Belgium. have no doubt that some of them can and should do so. 101WH 18 MAY 2011 Stillbirth 102WH

Stillbirth her organs was removed without her parents’ knowledge, and she was buried in a mass grave. That is what some 11 am would call a legacy case, and I would appreciate it if one of the Minister’s officials helped Angela finally to get Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): It is a pleasure the answers she needs as a mother, in order to come to to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. I have terms with what happened a few years ago. never been in this situation before, so I hope that you Some of the things that happened to Natasha no will treat me gently in the course of the next half an longer happen. The Human Tissue Act 2004, the Human hour. Tissue Authority Codes of Practice (2006), which apply I am grateful to have the opportunity to raise this in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and the Human important issue in Westminster Hall. Stillbirth is a Tissue (Scotland) Act 2006, which applies in Scotland, sensitive, painful subject that has a lasting effect on mean that parental consent is required before any organs thousands of people each year, and I am not convinced are removed from a stillborn baby. In most cases now, that enough is being done to support the families of funeral arrangements for a stillborn baby are a matter stillborn children. I am concerned that the UK seems to of decision for the parents, or by the relevant health or be failing to reduce the number of stillbirths that we local authority if the parents are unable to meet the have each year. cost. However, public graves for the interment of stillborn A few years ago, a couple who are good friends of and young babies remain to this day in some areas. mine were joyfully awaiting the birth of their second Another matter that causes great anxiety to parents child. The mother had what can only be described as a who have a stillborn child is certification. Parents I have normal pregnancy. When the baby was full term, she been in contact with have been very distressed that they had some intense pain in her stomach and decided that cannot legally register the birth of a baby born before it would be wise to head to the hospital. Rather than 24 weeks who did not breathe or show any signs of life. being admitted, she was sent home. When she returned While I understand that some parents would be distressed a day or so later, she was told that the baby she had been at the possibility of having to do that, I wonder whether carrying had died. we could have a more flexible system whereby parents Who knows what might have been different, had the have the choice of a formal birth certificate, a local circumstances a day or so previously been different? certificate issued by the hospital or—if they chose That is not the point of this debate, but what happened it—nothing. In modern society, I believe we have the then made up my mind that, should I ever be elected to ability and sensibility to deal with the matter of certification, this place, I would do my best to ensure that, in future, which is very important to most of the parents I have no parents would have to suffer the same fate as my spoken to, because it is a simple process of formally friends. Unfortunately, due to staffing problems, the naming their deceased baby. couple were sent home on that day, with the deceased Parents should be actively encouraged to see, hold baby still inside the mother. They were asked to return and care for their stillborn child. From all the various after the weekend for the delivery of their son. examples I have heard, while heartbreaking at the time, Clearly, that is not an acceptable or humane way to it seems to help parents come to terms with their loss treat someone who has received the worst of all news. It much quicker than they would otherwise have done. was, and still is, impossible for any of us here to know One of my correspondents on this subject has suggested or have the slightest clue about what my friends were that where parents do not wish to do that—with the feeling at that time, and what so many parents like them emotions running through them at the time, some parents go through each day. It is not a small number of feel confused and do not know how to deal with these families who go through this. Recent research shows matters—staff should take photos of the baby while it that 11 babies are stillborn every day in the United is being washed and dressed, so that, should the parents Kingdom, averaging out as one in every 200 babies change their mind at a later date, pictures of their child born, or 4,100 babies a year. are available. Some parents I have spoken to have had only the Without a doubt, the hardest thing for anyone to do nicest things to say about how they were treated following when a family member passes away is to say goodbye. the stillbirth of their child. Others have stories that are Saying goodbye in these circumstances should be done not so good, which is why I have been trying to secure in the parents’ own time and in their own way, and they this debate for months. I want to impress on the Minister, really should have expert support to help them decide whom I know is very sympathetic, the need to help what is best for them. Leaving the hospital, without the spread best practice across the health service when it baby the parents expected to be taking home, is a comes to stillbirth. Sands, the stillbirth and neonatal terrible thing for anyone to go through. From what I death charity, has developed comprehensive guidelines gather, most maternity units now deal with this in a for professionals. However, I am not confident that that professional and responsible fashion, and should be best practice is used across the whole of the NHS. commended for the way they handle this circumstance. I acknowledge completely that we have come a long Invariably, in the weeks after a stillbirth, the parents way in how we deal with stillbirth. There is a lady in the have to go back to the hospital where their baby was Public Gallery here today, Angela, who has, alas, delivered for check-ups and medical tests. Many parents experienced some of the worst of what used to happen have suggested to me that more consideration should be not so many years ago. She created a group, I Have given to subsequent hospital visits, and that space for Rights Too, to help other parents after her baby, Natasha, those appointments should be made available away was born and passed away almost immediately. Born a from the maternity unit. Quite often, parents have to go Catholic, Natasha was denied the last rites, and her back to the place where they have just had such a parents were not allowed to hold her. At least one of distressing occurrence. 103WH Stillbirth18 MAY 2011 Stillbirth 104WH

[Chris Heaton-Harris] assurance that we will see whether there is anything we can do to help. I would certainly like to provide help if I would like to thank Melanie Scott, whose Finley that is humanly possible. was stillborn, and who received a lot of quality support. For most people, having a baby is the most profound She has written a book about her experience, and feels and important event of their lives. It is a time to make that the support she received allowed her and her family plans and look forward to a future with all the joys that to heal at the time, and to continue to heal. She now having a child can bring. To lose a baby, at birth or helps other families who have had the same experience. shortly afterwards, is devastating for parents and the Finally, I would like to come back to the issue of the wider family. Anyone who has been fortunate enough number of stillbirths that occur each year. As I mentioned not to have undergone such a tragic circumstance cannot earlier, more than 4,100 babies a year are stillborn; that fully appreciate the depth of devastation and despair of is 11 a day. That number is simply too high. I have been such a family; nothing could be worse in family life. told that approximately 30% of stillbirths remain It is important for parents who have lost a baby to unexplained, and that various factors play into the receive immediate and ongoing support and information deaths of the remaining 70% of those babies. I know at a time that is appropriate for their needs. Parents that the Minister is concerned that the UK is slipping might find it helpful to talk to their GP or community down the league table. According to a recent study in midwife who, as well as providing support, can provide The Lancet, the UK has one of the worst records for advice on the bereavement and counselling services stillbirths, ranking 33rd out of 35 high-income nations. available locally, such as those provided by specialist While it is important to acknowledge that all women bereavement-support midwives. are vulnerable, we need to work out why the women in our nation may be at a higher risk of stillbirth, and To support the NHS in the provision of such services, what we can do to change that fact. There are some in 2008 the Royal College of Obstetricians and troubling regional differences in the percentage rates of Gynaecologists published “Standards for Maternity Care”, stillbirth across the UK. How can we explain the 33% which sets out clear standards for the levels of care that difference between the south-west, with the lowest rates, should be provided to help patients and families whose and the east midlands, of which my constituency is a baby is stillborn or dies shortly after birth. Comprehensive part, which has the highest rates? guidelines for professionals, on “Pregnancy Loss and I have had discussions with people who point out that the Death of a Baby” have been developed by Sands—the in recent years, Britain has become one of the unhealthiest Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Charity. For parents, the nations in Europe. We are the most obese nation in pregnancy care planner on the NHS Choices website Europe, and we are the heaviest drinkers. As life expectancy provides information on stillbirth, to complement has increased, more British women are waiting until information provided locally, and signposts other sources later in life to become first-time mothers. Those of help, including Sands, which I hope individuals find could all be contributing factors to the horrid statistic helpful at what is a difficult time. of 11 stillbirths a day. Forms and certificates are often greatly valued by What research has been done into the reasons behind parents as a way to acknowledge and commemorate the our high stillbirth rate? Why is there so much regional life of their baby. The Births and Deaths Registration variation? More than anything, I want the Minister to Act 1953, as amended, provides for the registration of assure me and the House that the Government have an babies born dead after 24 weeks’ gestation, which is the ongoing commitment to reducing the number of stillborn legal age of viability. A certificate of registration and a children throughout the United Kingdom, and that he certificate for burial or cremation are issued. will do his best to ensure that best practice, which does Parliament supported a change to the stillbirth definition exist, gets spread through the whole NHS, so that from “after 28 weeks” to “after 24 weeks” in 1992, given eventually, fewer parents need suffer this terrible fate. a clear consensus in the medical profession at that time that the age at which a foetus is considered viable should be changed. The medical certificate of stillbirth 11.10 am records the name of the mother and details such as the The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon weight, the estimated duration of pregnancy and when Burns): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, the child died—before labour or during labour—as well Mr Crausby. as the cause of death and whether a post-mortem has I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry been or might be carried out. (Chris Heaton-Harris) on securing this important debate Some parents find it deeply distressing that they and on the sensitive way in which he commented on a cannot legally register the birth of a baby born before deeply distressing set of circumstances that, sadly, affect 24 weeks, as my hon. Friend mentioned; the definition far too many families in this country. My hon. Friend involves a baby born before 24 weeks who did not has an active interest in this area, with his support both breathe or show any signs of life. However, it is important for his constituents who have suffered the tragedy of to recognise that some parents would be distressed at stillbirth and for the I Have Rights Too campaign, to the possibility of having to do so. When a baby is born which he alluded. dead before 24 weeks’ gestation, hospitals may issue a My hon. Friend asked for help from Department local certificate to commemorate the baby’s birth. officials in an individual case. If he is kind enough to The devastating effect of any stillbirth cannot be contact me with further details, I will be more than overestimated, and we recognise the distress that parents happy to ask my officials to look into what could be might face when having to deal with the further impact done to help. I cannot prejudge what might happen—there of a post-mortem examination. The Human Tissue Act are too many unknown quantities—but he has my 2004, which applies in England, Wales and Northern 105WH Stillbirth18 MAY 2011 Stillbirth 106WH

Ireland, established the Human Tissue Authority to pregnancy, labour, birth and the postnatal period. It is regulate the removal, storage, use and disposal of any important that women access maternity services at an body parts, organs and tissue. Consent is the fundamental early stage; we believe that that is one of the most principle underpinning the Act. fundamental characteristics of high-quality maternity The HTA has issued codes of practice that provide care. We therefore included the maternity 12-week early practical guidance and lay down expected standards in access indicator as one of the measures for quality in relation to activities within its remit, such as the carrying the NHS operating framework for 2011-12. out of a post-mortem examination. The code on post- Encouraging early access to maternity services will mortem examination recognises the particular difficulties enable women who can be identified as being at increased involved when pregnancy loss or stillbirth has occurred, risk of stillbirth to receive additional support and and emphasises the need for sensitive communication monitoring. The National Institute for Health and Clinical and the provision of further advice and guidance for Excellence will develop new quality standards on antenatal parents when necessary. That is especially important care, the management and care of women in labour and when the pathology results have implications for future delivery, and postnatal care. Based on the best available pregnancies. evidence, the standards will play a key role in the The funeral arrangements for a stillborn child are a Government’s vision of an NHS focused on improving matter for the parents, or for the relevant health or local outcomes for patients. authority if the parents are unable to meet the costs. We believe that there should be more accountability Individual local authorities decide what burial facilities within the NHS, and the outcomes framework will be to offer, but public graves for the interment of stillborn used to hold the NHS to account for the outcomes that and young babies remain in some areas. In many cases, it delivers through commissioning health services from sections of the cemeteries may be set aside for the burial 2012-13. We also believe that the availability of a full of babies, and that can provide some comfort for bereaved range of services, as close to home as possible, is parents. Whatever arrangements are made, we expect fundamental to safe, high-quality maternity care. To them to be provided with dignity and sensitivity. help to achieve that, we have made extending choice in I turn to the UK’s record. My hon. Friend made a maternity services a key priority for the NHS. Maternity number of valid points. He alluded to a recent series on provider networks will help to make safe, informed stillbirth in The Lancet, which ranked the UK stillbirth choice throughout pregnancy and in childbirth a reality, rate 33rd worldwide, below many other high-income and will facilitate movement between the different services. countries. Since 1999, there has been a small reduction I am pleased to announce that my hon. Friend the in the stillbirth rate for England—from 5.3 per 1,000 Under-Secretary for Public Health plans to host a meeting total births, to 5.2 in 2009. However, over the past on stillbirth later this year. It will consider the issues in 50 years the rate has declined significantly; for example, more detail and consider what more can be done to help in 1960 the figure for England and Wales was 19.8. reduce the number of stillborn babies and provide an Historically, there has been a step in the right direction, opportunity for all pregnant women to receive accurate but I fully understand the validity of my hon. Friend’s and timely advice on risk factors and simple measures point: even if the rate has declined in the past 10 years, to reduce risk—for example, stopping smoking. the difference is marginal, suggesting that considerable Pregnancy is a vital time for health promotion. Parents work has still to be done to bring the rate down further are motivated to do the best for their children, so they and to minimise the number of occasions on which are particularly receptive to information and advice. families have such a traumatic experience. The Government That means that maternity services, when delivered well want to improve health outcomes, which is a key focus and with a holistic approach, can help to tackle some of of our NHS reforms. We have made the reduction of the biggest public health issues facing us as a nation, to perinatal mortality, including stillbirth, an improvement do with nutrition, physical activity and health area under domain 1 of the NHS outcomes framework inequalities—not just for infants and children, but for for 2011-12. all of us. What can be done to reduce the risk of stillbirth? My hon. Friend asked about research in the Department First, every unexpected death of a baby should be and the NHS, and I shall briefly address that issue. investigated. The National Patient Safety Agency has First, the Department of Health continues to invest in published a pro forma for the review of intrapartum-related research in this important area. The Department’s National perinatal deaths, for use by health professionals, and it Institute for Health Research in Cambridge has an may also be used for the review of all perinatal deaths. ongoing programme to look at women’s health. A major The aim is to find any avoidable factors, to identify any focus of that research is understanding the factors lessons to be learned, and then to develop and disseminate linked to stillbirth, and to use that information to an action plan to deal with issues arising from the improve the clinical care of pregnant women. I hope information. Secondly, it is imperative that we continue that that goes some way to reassure my hon. Friend that to drive forward improvements in maternity and new-born research is ongoing and that we take the issue extremely services, so that all women and their children have seriously because of the implications and level of the access to safe, high-quality and locally-led care. problem in this country, given its high income and In recent years, there have been encouraging standard of living compared with other nations around improvements in antenatal care. The Care Quality the world. We can do better, and we must do better. Commission’s survey of women’s experiences of maternity I want to speak about another issue that my hon. services was published in December 2010, and found Friend did not raise specifically, but I hope that he will that 92% of women rated their maternity care as good find it useful in the context of this debate. Financial or better. We should be proud of that, but more can be support is of great importance to families who may done and needs to be done to improve care during have a financial problem when they suffer the devastation 107WH Stillbirth 18 MAY 2011 108WH

[Mr Simon Burns] Waste Reduction of a stillbirth or early birth. Information on financial 2.30 pm support is made available through the “Money made clear” leaflet on Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): I am glad to have “Late miscarriage, stillbirth and neonatal death: financial help secured this debate, and that at least some hon. Members available”. are hoping to contribute. This is a timely debate given It collates the information that parents may need from a the Government’s review on waste policy. It is also real range of cross-Government organisations and the voluntary nappy week; later, I will explain my reasons for referring sector. The leaflet contains information on whether, to that. There is a pressing need for action. When following late miscarriage, stillbirth or neonatal death, launching the Government review, the Environment parents are eligible to receive free prescriptions and Secretary stated: dental treatment, Healthy Start free vitamins and vouchers, “There is an economic and environmental urgency to developing statutory maternity pay, maternity allowance, statutory the right waste strategy.” paternity pay, child benefit, the child trust fund and Or, to adapt the Prime Minister’s own words in another child tax credit. environmental context, the house is burning down. That document is easily accessible in its format, so Given my views on incinerators, that is perhaps not the people do not have to be referred from pillar to post to best analogy. find information and answers to questions that may be Waste is a pressing problem. One could refer to many relevant to them, or uppermost in their minds when of its aspects, such as the unrequired and/or excessive seeking a solution. It is worth putting that on the record use of materials in packaging, the ubiquity of single-use so that people have an opportunity, when it is applicable items to which we seem to be addicted, or products that or when they are suffering difficult financial circumstances, cannot be repaired, reused or used in a different way. to be able easily to ascertain where and what they may Some products are difficult to recycle because of their do to access help at what is always a difficult time. complex use of materials. When preparing for this I conclude by thanking my hon. Friend for calling debate, I read about changes in the automotive industry this debate. The issue is important simply because of where the use of plastics has been simplified so that the utter devastation, despair and misery that it causes recycling is easier. There are problems of inefficient to far too many families in this country. We take it energy recovery, and of waste being disposed of when it extremely seriously, as I hope my hon. Friend recognises could have been treated differently. from the activities and actions that I have outlined and As hon. Members will recognise, there is a hierarchy that the Department of Health and the NHS are pursuing. of waste disposal methods that runs from the most We continue to give the matter the highest priority, favoured options such as prevention or the preparation because we must do more to help families who face such of something for reuse, through to recycling, other a devastating and terrible loss. methods of recovery including energy recovery, and finally disposal. Much of the emphasis in the media and 11.27 am popular discourse concerns recycling, and in particular Sitting suspended. hitting—or missing—recycling targets. Such issues have obsessed us; I will refer later to targets in the context of Wales. The popular debate also looks at inefficiency and the mystifying use of recycled materials. Some hon. Members will have seen pictures of ships full of plastics being sent to China. There is public disbelief that such things happen, but it is a relevant issue. I have also heard rumours about compostable material going straight to landfill. Last night, one of my constituents called me to say that compostable material in my local authority was being carried by lorry to Skelmersdale for dumping. I checked this morning with my local authority, and I was assured that that was not the case. Controversies surround issues such as incineration and overflowing landfill sites, and when new landfill sites are proposed there are often local protests. I recently had experience of that in my constituency because a large quarry had been used for waste disposal for many years, and some people argued that it had been leaking into a local stream. That site has now been capped and closed, but finding a landfill site for the short period before another permanent site is found has been fraught with difficulty. I hope the problem has now been solved. Much less popular attention is given to reducing the amount of waste generated by producing and using a product—from source to end of life—and I would be glad if the popular press gave that issue more attention. Less attention is also given to the construction industry, 109WH Waste Reduction18 MAY 2011 Waste Reduction 110WH for example, which generates a large amount of waste. of the release of polychlorinated biphenyls, or PCBs. On a more positive note, efforts have been made by As I understand it, there are proposals to place a large some areas of industry to achieve significant reductions incinerator in Merthyr Tydfil. There is also talk of an in waste—I referred earlier to car manufacturers that incinerator in the Wrexham area, which is upwind from have taken steps to reduce the numbers of plastics used, large English conurbations and could have implications thus simplifying recycling. for people outside Wales. There has been much controversy Hon. Members may raise other issues this afternoon, over those plans and the possible health effects, and any but I would be interested in the Minister’s comments on research on the subject will be welcomed. what the Secretary of State described in her statement I want to refer to a recycling partnership that exists in as my constituency between the local authority and social “new approaches to dealing with commercial waste and promoting enterprises, and to the employment opportunities that ‘responsibility deals.’” that has provided. The Government have said that they have two ambitions: to have a zero-waste economy and Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): I congratulate to be the greenest Government ever. Obviously, tackling the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. He spoke waste offers an opportunity to create a more resource- about businesses disposing of waste. I have found that efficient and competitive economy, to create jobs and to despite paying business rates, local businesses in my save money. constituency are often asked to pay more and discouraged It is gratifying that the generation of household from recycling things such as paper, which we probably waste continues to decrease and that the public’s enthusiasm recycle automatically when throwing out our household for recycling is clearly growing. Recycling sites now waste. Because of the financial penalties, businesses are rival garden centres at the weekend as places to socialise—I actively discouraged from taking a full part in recycling had a peculiar experience in that regard the other day. and reuse. The recycling rate in England is 40.3%, according to the latest figures from the Department for Environment, Hywel Williams: The hon. Lady makes a good point. Food and Rural Affairs. However, that figure is behind We should not discourage recycling, but that should not the best in Europe—our ambition is to be the best, and necessarily be the first choice; generating less waste in the best rate in Europe is 70%-plus. The rate for Wales the first place might be a wiser course of action. Some in the third quarter of 2010 was 45%, so in Wales we are local authorities have withdrawn their charges for waste slightly ahead of the game as far as England is concerned. produced for the reasons mentioned by the hon. Lady. The figure for the last quarter of 2010 in Wales was I want to look at how we can prevent waste in the first 42%. Of course, there is a drop-off in the winter months place and at reuse, and I intend to use the example of because there is less garden waste, but in Wales we are real nappies—it is real nappy week. First, however, I still somewhat ahead. will look broadly at the waste review, and it will be useful to refer to Wales as well as to England. I am a Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): I want to refer back to Welsh MP, and as hon. Members may know, in some a point that the hon. Gentleman made earlier. Does he respects Wales is well ahead of the game as far as the not think that a more appropriate measure for any UK is concerned. The Welsh and UK Governments can Government, be they a devolved Administration or the learn much from each other, and the waste review UK Government, involves consideration of waste arisings, provides an opportunity for that. rather than recycling? As he said, the issue is avoiding What happens in one country is bound to have an waste going into the waste stream in the first place, effect—perhaps a profound effect—on the country next whether it consists of products for recycling or otherwise. door. I hardly need point out that incinerators in Wales For example, rather than recycling products through near to the border are bound to raise concerns downwind. recycling banks, one could take part in a bottle deposit For decades, farms in Wales suffered from the effects of scheme, as I do in respect of my doorstep milk collections; the wind that blew from Chernobyl, and farms in my reusing bottles rather than recycling them is surely a constituency suffered restrictions for many years. The better option than simply measuring recycling rates. wind blows as it pleases. Hywel Williams: The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent Nicky Morgan: The hon. Gentleman is generous in point. Of course, there are questions about the durability giving way again. He talks about incineration, and hon. of the bottles being recycled. Will we get the right bang Members from all parties will know constituents who for our buck by recycling? There are questions about feel passionately about that issue once an incinerator is transportation, the weight of glass and so on. However, proposed on a nearby site—I am thinking of Shepshed the thrust of the point is excellent. I am old enough to in my constituency, where Biffa wants to place an remember getting a penny, or a penny ha’penny, back incinerator. A couple of weeks ago, an article in the on a bottle of lemonade and I look back to those days Sunday Express stated that the Health Protection Agency with—well, I am showing my age now. is going to work with researchers from Imperial college The targets for Wales are 70% recycling by 2025 and in London to look at the health effects produced by zero waste by 2050, so they are very ambitious. Without incineration and the health worries felt by those who praising the previous Plaid Cymru-Labour Government live downwind from an incinerator. too much, I shall say that Wales is the first country in the UK to adopt statutory recycling targets for municipal Hywel Williams: Again, the hon. Lady makes an waste, following a Measure passed by the Assembly. It excellent point. We have long experience of such things was one of the first measures that the Assembly managed in Wales. In the south-east an incineration plant caused to pass on its own. The Waste (Wales) Measure 2010 tremendous worry to local people for many years because received royal approval in December. The first statutory 111WH Waste Reduction18 MAY 2011 Waste Reduction 112WH

[Hywel Williams] landfill, with some being diverted to incineration. It points out the inverse correlation between incineration recycling target set under that Measure is 52% by 2012. and recycling. Clearly, therefore, there is a pace of activity in Wales Denmark has a very high level of incineration but a that I am sure will be interesting to people over the low level of recycling. There might be a causal relationship border. there. Friends of the Earth points to other European Wales is also the only country in the UK in which examples. Flanders has a ban on landfill or incineration every local authority offers a separate food or food and of unsorted waste; it also has a very big network of green waste collection. That is the case throughout the reuse shops. Irish local authorities can levy a charge on country. It was the first country to introduce the landfill waste incineration, and similar taxes exist in Denmark, allowance scheme and it looks as though it will be the Austria, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden. There is first to introduce a carrier bag charge, in October 2011. a great deal that can be learned not only over the border We will see, of course, but that is the intention and it has within the UK, but from other European countries. widespread support. My local authority, Gwynedd, achieved I said earlier that this is real nappy week; indeed, that a recycling rate of 44% in 2010-11 and, I hope, will is what led me to apply for the debate in the first place. achieve the target of 52% in 2013. Earlier this year, I visited a small company in my constituency called BabyKind. I should say that I have Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): Will the hon. no particular interest in that company, but I was impressed Gentleman tell us a little about how the clearly more by its enterprise, by its commitment to its products and progressive, more advanced policies in Wales are being customers and by its enthusiasm for the wider cause of received by the general public? What binds the general promoting environmental sustainability. public to those higher aspirations? Some people might think that my referring to real nappies in this debate is eccentric or even frivolous. Hywel Williams: Speaking generally, I think that However, the waste produced by throwaway nappies is a there is a political consensus in Wales anyway. In the significant burden. The Nappy Alliance says that 3 recent election, it was sometimes difficult to see the billion nappies are thrown away every year—8 million a difference even between a party of government and a day—making up 4% of household waste. That is a huge party of opposition. There is a consensus on these amount—a huge negative contribution to the mountain issues and there is a tradition. I was talking to someone of waste. Throwaway nappies that go to landfill add to about this the other day. We used to call the rubbish not the problems that we all recognise: the increased pressure the rubbish, but the salvage—what we would be salvaging on landfill sites, the waste of land, the potential water from rubbish. There is a long tradition of that. I have pollution and the increase in greenhouse gas emissions, no idea what the basis is for what the hon. Gentleman particularly methane. refers to, but perhaps what is important is the outcome—a The Nappy Alliance also states that, according to the higher recycling rate. Environment Agency, the decomposition time scale for My local authority is introducing weekly food collections. some of the materials and chemicals used in throwaway There had been concern about bi-weekly collections nappies is more than 500 years, so we are storing up and possible dangers to health. The authority is bringing problems for the future. In that respect, throwaway in weekly food collections, with a target for the amount nappies are clearly misnamed when they are called collected by 2013. As I said earlier, it works with two “disposable”—they are far from disposable. third-sector organisations: Antur Waunfawr and Seren. Debate on this matter has been distorted, although They sort high-quality plastics and will be moving to some would go further and say that it has been plagued lower-quality plastics quite soon. They also collect textiles. by misinformation, unintended or otherwise. On Monday Those activities produce not only an income stream for this week, an article in a national newspaper criticised the organisations involved, but 35 jobs for people with local authorities for spending money on promoting real learning difficulties at Antur Waunfawr, so it is a win-win nappies. It claimed that situation. “taxpayers’ money was poured into real nappy campaigns even though the notion that re-useable nappies are better for the Antur also runs a furniture recycling scheme and a environment was discredited years ago.” confidential waste shredding scheme for 450 customers throughout north Wales, including MPs such as myself, It further claimed that there was “overwhelming evidence” and it is now employing five young people on in 2007 that such campaigns “were pointless”. apprenticeships in recycling. There is a great deal of I believe that that claim refers to the well publicised progress. The chief executive of Antur, Menna Jones, Environment Agency life cycle analysis report on nappies recently said to me—I am translating—“I don’t know in 2006, which some Members might recall. The report about the big society, but small social enterprises are was prominent in the press at the time—in 2006, not achieving a lot.” There is a good deal to emulate over 2007—and it made similar assertions, if in a less striking the border. way. However, when the report was revised in 2008, it At the same time, Friends of the Earth is pressing for showed that reusable nappies could be about 40% better another approach—halving residual waste by 2020. I for the environment than throwaways. News of that would be interested in the Minister’s comments on that. revision seems to have escaped the notice of Monday’s Targeting the reducing of residual waste—black bag newspaper—although I am sure that it is simply the waste that cannot be recycled—would reward waste result of a busy journalist not doing his homework. prevention, reuse and recycling, as well as reducing the Real nappies will directly solve much of the landfill use of landfill and incineration. Friends of the Earth problem, being reused and even passed on to be used by argues that zero waste must not mean zero waste to other children, as recently happened in my family. Their 113WH Waste Reduction18 MAY 2011 Waste Reduction 114WH use offers local authorities an excellent cost saving. is discovered, so permission is renewed and renewed According to the Nappy Alliance, the cost of disposing again. In some areas, a whole generation can be blighted of throwaway nappies in England is £90 million per by mineral extraction. year. Real nappies also fit into the waste hierarchy at a Following extraction, the holes are used for landfill. much higher level than throwaways, which are poor fuel Putting to one side the traffic and noise caused by gravel for incineration and tend to go for disposal. They are extraction, the landfill exercise generates more traffic, also higher in the hierarchy than recycling, and that too more noise and more pollution, particularly air pollution should be borne in mind, given that some look to and dust. In that respect, I have had considerable problems incentivise recycling while ignoring waste minimisation in my constituency over the last 30 years. For instance, and reuse. That is another point for the future. the Stockley site operated for a number of years after I realise that I have ranged fairly broadly in my the second world war and into the 1970s, and we were speech, but it is necessary to set the matter in context. plagued with dumping, which can be associated with However, I draw the Minister’s attention to the question illegal dumping, and then with methane fires under the posed by Friends of the Earth about the definition of ground. Because of such problems, we need to include zero waste. Is it zero to landfill, or is it in fact zero? I stricter controls on the development of landfill sites. would also like to know what his Department is doing Under the Localism Bill, greater authority will be given to promote the reuse of real nappies. to local authorities, councils and communities to have a say in refusing landfill developments. Andrew George: Before the hon. Gentleman draws his The second matter is incineration, a subject which remarks to a conclusion, I wonder whether he would has already been mentioned. Planning permission was like to comment on the opportunities for business in given to an incinerator at Colnbrook, which is outside recycling. For example, scrap metal merchants will be my constituency but adjacent to it. In recent years, the found in all constituencies and those who remember the site was given an extension. The prevailing wind means Corona bottle referred to earlier will remember that that pollution from the incinerator is blown across my licensed totters on every municipal site regularly recycled constituency. I have often raised questions in the House items. Those are honourable professions, but they are about the health impact of the pollution from incineration often pushed to the margins of society and treated during my 14 years as a Member. badly. Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that those people and professions should be harnessed and given a Research has been undertaken into the high level of central place in our business response to the need to birth defects, most of which was refuted by the Department reduce the waste stream? of Health, yet researchers still come up with increasing evidence of the association between incineration and Hywel Williams: The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent local health problems. I urge the Government to use the point. The Steptoe image is way out of date; indeed, it review to ensure that the Department of Health supports was out of date in the 1960s. There is clearly a huge additional research into the implications of incineration market for reused materials, and if the constabulary on the health of communities that live down-wind. We keep an eye on our manhole covers I would be very heard earlier about the research that is being undertaken. much in favour of continuing with it. It is still relatively small-scale, and I would welcome additional funding going to primary care trusts, or Will the Minister assure the House that his Department whichever body results from the health legislation, to is working closely with the Welsh and Scottish Governments assist them in undertaking research in areas with incinerators and the Northern Ireland Administration, as well as on where pollution could have an impact on local communities. a wide range of matters in the European context? There is one small niggle, but others might raise it. Welsh The third of my concerns is about council provision. authorities are doing rather well—for instance, Anglesey We have heard about excellent examples of recycling in and Denbighshire are now recycling 57 %—but there is Wales, but there is an inconsistency of approach between a sneaking suspicion that this might lead other authorities local authorities. We are all in favour of localism, but it to slacken in their drive to reach 50% by 2020. I hope would be welcome if the Government were to consider that that does not happen. standardising the opportunity to minimise waste as well as recycling it. For example, there is still an inconsistency in my area in the number of recycling centres, and we 2.54 pm do not have a food waste service, which is another John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I inconsistency among the London boroughs. I hate to wish to raise four matters that relate to my constituency use the phrase, but there is a postcode lottery for policy or are of personal interest. I congratulate the hon. on waste and for access to facilities to minimise waste or Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) on securing this to recycle food waste, compost and so on. In my area, debate; as he has said, coming in real nappy week, it is the figures are still significant. In my borough of Hillingdon, timely. 44,644 tonnes of waste is recycled and 64,566 tonnes is The first of the four matters is landfill. I represent a disposed of either through incineration or landfill. Therefore, west London constituency that still has considerable we are still disposing of more waste than we recycle. No open spaces. It covers a large geographical area. For the attempt is being made to assess what could be achieved past 40 years, it has been a site for gravel extraction, the through minimisation and prevention, which leads me gravel being used by the construction industry in London on to a personal campaign. I support the Nappy Alliance, and the south-east. I have appeared at every planning which is a representative organisation of the reusable inquiry for gravel pits in my area for at least 35 years, nappy sector. and only once did we prevent a gravel application going My youngest child was in reusable nappies 15 years ahead. Usually, the extracting companies are offered a ago, which is when I became an advocate of reusable five-year term for operating the site, but as more gravel schemes, working through the National Childbirth Trust. 115WH Waste Reduction18 MAY 2011 Waste Reduction 116WH

[John McDonnell] measure they possibly can to minimise waste rather than putting the pressure on recycling. Certainly they It is blindingly obvious that we would have a big impact must do everything they can to prevent landfill and on the environment if we could promote the use of incineration. In the past, I have been a supporter of the reusable nappies and provide disincentives for the use of landfill tax, but I can see how that has resulted in disposable ones. further illegal dumping. The Nappy Alliance has brought forward its own With the M25, M4 and the A40 all passing through charter, which I support. It believes that there should be my west London constituency, a large number of illegal a 1p tax on disposable nappies to try to prevent the dumpers have been able to take waste from central harm that they do to the environment. We should urge London, drive along the A40, the M4 or the M25 and the Government to exhort local authorities to work then fly-tip the illegal rubbish in my constituency. No with local community organisations to see what can be matter how much we put in place by way of detection done to support the development of reusable nappies. and legal action against fly-tippers—some of the legislation We have seen the figures about the impact on the that the previous Government introduced was excellent environment and the savings that could be provided. in giving us the tools to do that—the real solution is The cost of disposing of disposable nappies is estimated about minimisation and preventing the build-up of to be around £100 million. If the promotion of reusable waste products. The disposable nappy might seem a nappies leads to a 10% reduction in disposable nappies, small matter, but if we minimised its use and transferred we could save £10 million, which is worth considering. to reusable nappies, we would be making a major The savings could be significantly more as people begin contribution to the future waste policy of this country. to understand the benefits of using reusable nappies. 3.6 pm I urge the Government to enter into discussions with local authorities, the voluntary sector and private industry Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): I congratulate the to see whether we can promote local schemes for reusable hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) on securing nappies. In that way, we will assist in reducing landfill, this debate. These are vital issues that deserve much incineration and overall pollution. greater attention than they currently receive, and the need for action in this area is pressing. Let me also say Hywel Williams: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that it is a pleasure to face the Minister again. My hon. if this is to be a long-term change, there needs to be a Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John cultural change among young parents? It has taken McDonnell) has made some interesting and compelling many years for people to get out of the habit of using points about the issues facing his own constituency. the old-style terry nappies. Therefore, we need a sustained As the father of four children, the youngest of whom effort by third sector organisations, charities, local is five months old, I have to say that nappy week poses a authorities and central Government to achieve such a real challenge in terms of trying to convince people of change. the benefits of moving towards more sustainable nappy use. The Minister knows that he will have my support John McDonnell: It requires a sustained effort, of and the support of Opposition Members when the course, but it should not be an arduous task. In fact, it Government seek to do the right thing. None the less, could be a relatively easy exercise of advocacy. We one year into this Conservative-led Government, we could make use of the various mechanisms that already can see that environmental policies do not rate highly exist, particularly to improve the level of parenting. For on their agenda. Regrettably, over the past 12 months, example, the Sure Start centres and our local nurseries the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and schools could be used. The task could be relatively has become a struggling Department. It has been described easy, if there were a concerted effort by local authorities as being in special measures. It has settled for the and community organisations. biggest departmental budget cut across Whitehall; it has struggled to articulate policy; and it has been forced It is not like the old days, when we had to swill into a series of U-turns. It is a picture of absolute chaos. nappies around in buckets. The design of reusable nappies I genuinely regret the fact that the Department that is has moved on dramatically since then. Once parents meant to be the custodian of the green agenda is in such have been introduced to them, they will see the benefit a poor state. of them. Parents of younger children often look to see In his recent review of the Government’s environmental what wider goals there are in life. They want to ensure record, Jonathan Porritt summarised the situation most that they preserve the planet for their children, and they succinctly. are just at that period in their lives when they are open to the arguments about waste prevention, the protection 3.8 pm of the environment and overcoming climate change. Sitting suspended for a Division in the House. We need clear statements from national Government that this is an important issue that needs to be addressed 3.18 pm and from local government about what can be done in On resuming— the local area. They need to work together on a national plan that can be rolled out on a local level, with the Mr Reed: In an excellent piece of work undertaken support of the local voluntary sector as well as the for Friends of the Earth, Jonathon Porritt reviewed the private sector industries. Government’s environmental record one year in: In my area, there are increasing pressures on our “the bad and the positively ugly indisputably outweigh the good…It local environment as a result of illegal dumping. In is…unavoidably depressing to see just how rapidly things have their waste review, the Government must look at every gone backwards since May 2010.” 117WH Waste Reduction18 MAY 2011 Waste Reduction 118WH

Few would disagree with that assessment, and the ongoing others who care about this area is that political dogma inertia over waste policy illustrates the point further, is being placed above real outcomes, results and with the Government routinely being accused of lacking improvements to our environment, which is distorting ambition, as long-running disputes between DEFRA environment and waste management policy. and the Department for Communities and Local The economic opportunities that effective resource Government continue—disputes that usually end with management present are significant. The hon. Member an outright DCLG victory. for Arfon is right about the discourse in the country at The hon. Member for Arfon is right that waste policy large in all the nations of the UK. We need to change must be based on a whole-systems approach. That the terms of the debate and the frame of reference, means that it should concentrate not simply on recycling, which is a common responsibility for both Government but on reusing resources and reducing the resources and Opposition Members. Friends of the Earth estimates used by society. In short, it should consider how we use that 50,000 new jobs might be created across the economy, the resources available to us in the most sustainable, if recycling rates were to rise to 70%. environmental and economic ways possible, and not The CBI is even more optimistic about the benefits of simply how we deal with the waste produced by utilising a comprehensive approach to resource management resources. policy. It recently warned the Government about the The Labour Government’s record in this area was timidity in their approach to waste policy, and it rightly very good and was widely recognised as such. The identified a series of quick wins that the country might Independent reported last year that secure if the Government were bolder and more “waste management was one of the real success stories of the last ambitious—if they choose to show that boldness and government, which in a mere decade managed to raise the amount ambition, we will certainly support them. The CBI of household waste going for recycling…to nearly 40 per cent”. identified providing massive business opportunities, meeting Next month is the publication of the Government’s climate change targets, bolstering energy security and much vaunted and much delayed waste review, which unlocking infrastructure investments from the private has so far, regrettably, failed to set the political world sector as just some of the benefits of a comprehensive alight. That is a mutual regret for everyone involved in waste policy. this policy area. There are issues about the review to As 300 of the UK’s largest existing landfill sites have raise here, and no doubt there will be more issues after to close, the CBI estimates that it will require £1 billion the report’s publication. Will the Minister confirm that of investment in approximately 2,000 new waste it will be more than a “series of case studies”, as some management plants over the next 10 years to meet within DEFRA have briefed? Building on that, will the Britain’s minimum waste framework directive targets. waste review replace the 2007 waste strategy? If so, We have fewer than 10 years in extraordinarily difficult what is the time scale? Local authorities, businesses, economic circumstances to find an average of more communities and individuals require certainty on this, than £1 billion a year to invest in the infrastructure that and they are not receiving it now. we need to meet our targets. That will require private On the subject of certainty, I hope that the Minister and public investment, so how, credibly and specifically, will enlighten the Chamber on the recycling targets for do the Government intend to achieve it? local authorities in England. Will the waste review Where is the detailed Government strategy that sets cover the targets and, more importantly, does DEFRA out the investment required by and the roles and believe in such targets for local authorities in England? responsibilities of the public and private sectors? Will Can he guarantee that the waste framework directive the Minister provide us with details of how the change will apply to England as well as to Scotland, Wales and will happen and what discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland, all of which have significantly more Treasury about the contribution that it will inevitably ambitious recycling targets than the mandatory 50% by have to make towards the effort? The issue needs effective 2020? Is he content for Britain’s minimum 50% target to project management, not political abandonment. Will be met by home nations other than England exceeding he also update the Chamber on the infraction proceedings that minimum requirement? caused by the Government’s late transposition of the Surely the Minister does not want England to lag waste framework directive into law? behind, but wants to enable the English regions to The Minister is aware that energy from waste is an benefit from the economic opportunities that the waste incredibly exciting policy area, so will he spell out industry presents, which the devolved Administrations Government policy? Many hon. Members have mentioned seem to acknowledge and enthusiastically pursue. Will it, but can he be clear about what, specifically, Government he state categorically today that, however it is achieved, policy on waste incineration is? Ambiguity is not an England will meet the minimum requirements of the option. What assessment has his Department made of directive? If DEFRA has rolled over again because the the impact that the review of feed-in tariffs is having on Department for Communities and Local Government investment in energy from waste projects? I was fortunate has once again trumped it, and recycling targets for enough to visit a multimillion pound anaerobic digestion England are to be abandoned, will he assure us that the plant on a farm in Haselmere only yesterday—it is a UK will meet the directive’s minimum target? superb scheme which I urge him to visit. It is clear to me What is the future of the joint municipal waste and to others that continued uncertainty is damaging management strategies, which currently require local confidence in investment in the sector. authorities in two-tier local authority areas to work I know that the Minister is a good man and wants to together? What assessment has the Minister made of do the right thing. We both know that the Government the impact of the strategies’ removal on recycling rates have relegated their environmental policy concerns. I and other performance goals? The fear among non- have asked specific questions, and I look forward to governmental organisations, environmental activists and specific answers now. 119WH Waste Reduction18 MAY 2011 Waste Reduction 120WH

3.26 pm On the subject of nappies, it is also worth considering TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof StateforEnvironment, the work that the Government are doing with the clothing Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): It is a pleasure sector. In the UK, we buy some 2 million tonnes of to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby.I congratulate clothing a year. That has a huge impact on our environment the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) on securing right through the supply chain—from production to the such an important debate. end of a product’s life. We discard 1 million tonnes of unwanted clothing a year; 50% of it ends up in landfill The Government are reviewing all aspects of waste and only 24% is reused or recycled. The clothing sector policy and delivery in England, including how we can in the UK produces about 3.1 million tonnes of carbon encourage waste prevention and reuse. The review’s dioxide, about 1 million tonnes of waste and 70 million findings will be published in June. As waste is a devolved tonnes of waste water. However, those sums are minimal issue, the review focuses on England only, but I can compared with the impact of the clothing sector overseas, reassure the hon. Gentleman that my officials meet where 90% of the clothing that the UK consumes regularly with those from the Welsh Administration comes from. When we talk about waste, it is important and other devolved Administrations to learn about that we understand the breadth of what we are dealing experiences elsewhere. I congratulate him on the good with. case studies he shared with us today of Welsh local authorities that are achieving fantastic results for recycling, The hon. Members for Arfon and for Hayes and and in other environmental areas. We can learn from Harlington both mentioned incineration, as did the those and from the good case studies in England. What hon. Member for Copeland (Mr Reed), who said that is important is that we are all keen to prevent waste he wants a very clear statement about how incineration where we can. fits in with our waste policy. That will be clearly defined The hon. Gentleman talked about the hideous spectacle in the waste review; that is its purpose. However, I can of recyclets being placed on ships to China, and I say today that incineration is part of the mix and part of entirely understand where he is coming from, but the the waste hierarchy, as all hon. Members will know first thing we need to consider when we think about that well. is that it is better that that is happening than that they The question a lot of people ask about incineration is are buried. If recyclable material can be constructed on the public health aspect. I can tell the hon. Member into something useful, there is a business opportunity, for Copeland that in 2009 the Health Protection Agency and to make recycling work, we need business opportunities. reviewed the scientific evidence of the health effects of We obviously want to reduce the number of recycling modern municipal waste incinerators. I want to emphasise miles, but it is not an entirely bad story if we are the word “modern”, because there have been problems exporting materials that get used, and those materials in the past with incinerators. The HPA’s report on fit in with the import-export structure of our shipping incinerators is available on its website. It concluded that industry. There are new approaches to business waste, although it is not possible to rule out completely any which will come out in the review. There is also a lot of adverse health effects from incinerators, any potential good news on the co-responsibility deals the hon. damage from modern, well-run and highly regulated Gentleman discussed. incinerators is likely to be so small as to be undetectable. The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) mentioned that it is real nappy week. I I know that that will not make many of the protesters would like to be able to stand in front of the House and against incineration schemes go away quietly, and there say that I, as a father of five, was entirely virtuous and are many other factors to be taken into consideration in forced my poor wife—wives, if I am being perfectly siting an incinerator in a certain place. However, the honest—to use terry nappies, but I did not. I believe fact remains that modern incinerators are highly regulated. that I played my part in that function of parenting, but They are not monitored monthly or weekly, but all the both wives would probably disagree. Nevertheless, we time. The Environment Agency is extremely strict in must ask ourselves whether we want to impose reusable ensuring they are safe. One incinerator recently opened nappies on future generations of parents. I think that in Sheffield, and another in Bristol. They are a very the point made by the hon. Members for Arfon and for important part of how we deal with waste, in a society Hayes and Harlington is that this is a question of that simply cannot afford to bury it any longer. education and incentives. We have made great progress in this country in increasing Of course, reusing nappies is not a total-sum game. If recycling rates, but the best thing we can do with waste we managed to persuade many more parents to reuse is to prevent its arising in the first place. In accordance nappies, there would be increased use of water and with the waste hierarchy we have just discussed, and possibly increased use of non-biological washing powders. which is now enshrined in UK law, preventing waste So, it is not a total-sum game. Nevertheless, it is much helps individuals, businesses and local authorities to better than burying large amounts of disposable nappies, save money. It helps us to conserve scarce natural which of course contain chemicals. resources and it reduces damage to the environment. I want to give the hon. Member for Arfon an absolute Through our waste review, we have engaged widely with assurance about what we mean by zero waste. Zero individuals, communities and businesses, and we have waste does not mean that no waste exists—we are all received more than 300 responses to our call for evidence. realists. It means a society where resources are fully Many of those who responded supported our view that valued, financially and environmentally. One person’s we need to focus more on preventing waste from occurring waste is another person’s resource. Nothing is actually in the first place. Waste prevention covers many types of wasted over time; we get as close as we can to zero activities and behaviours. It means improving production landfill; and there is a new public consciousness about efficiencies in business; designing products so they work waste. That is how we define zero waste. efficiently and last for as long as possible; repairing 121WH Waste Reduction18 MAY 2011 Waste Reduction 122WH products when they are broken; reusing products to give themselves. We need to encourage companies to design them a second life; and not buying products we do not products differently to avoid waste. Products need to need. last longer—to be upgradeable, repairable and reusable. The Government cannot deal with waste prevention Working with WRAP, we are helping organisations to alone. The public, private and voluntary sectors need to develop new business models for a greener economy. work together to make it easy for people to do the right For example, under the sustainable clothing action thing. A great example of that is the existing work on plan I referred to earlier, more than 40 organisations are food waste prevention. Food is a valuable resource. now taking voluntary action, including reducing production Every tonne of food that ends up in landfill damages and packaging waste. If an unwanted item is still in the environment by producing the equivalent of four good condition, it does not have to end up in landfill; it tonnes of CO2. UK households throw away more than can be reused. Civil society organisations play a vital 8 million tonnes of food every year, most of which part in preventing waste through the reuse of goods. could have been eaten. Preventing that food waste could Charity shops and reuse organisations enable individuals save the average family £680 a year. to donate and buy items that other people no longer The “Love Food Hate Waste” campaign is run by the need, which provides social and environmental benefits. Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’ For example, the London Waste and Recycling Board is delivery body, the Waste and Resources Action Programme setting up a reuse network for the benefit of households in England. WRAP is working with businesses, across London. householders, civil society groups and local authorities There are lots of things that householders can do to to reduce the amount of food wasted. More than 300 local prevent waste and to reuse products, but we know it is authorities in England are running “Love Food Hate not always simple to do them. That is why the waste Waste” initiatives to help local residents buy the right review will consider how we can make it easier for amounts of food and to make the most of what they people to do the right thing. buy. I have seen such initiatives myself, working locally, The hon. Member for Copeland made a number of and they are excellent schemes. Between 2007 and 2009, points, and I say just this: he is rapidly running out of all these actions reduced food waste by more than ideas with which attack to this Government, because 380,000 tonnes a year, saving consumers more than each time he does so we cut him off at the pass. He will £860 million and preventing more than 1.6 million have to eat his words about the greenest Government tonnes of CO2 emissions a year. ever because, given the publication of the natural We want to do even more to prevent waste by working environment White Paper, the ecosystems assessment, with businesses and consumers. For example, WRAP the biodiversity plan and the many other documents— has recently collaborated with Hovis to examine why including the waste review, which has the environment consumers waste £1.1 billion of bread and bakery products absolutely at its heart—he sounds increasingly shrill in each year, and to consider how manufacturers can help his rather weak attacks. It is simply not good enough to consumers to waste less of their products. Organisations posit something utterly nonsensical to the House as if it such as FareShare, which is a social enterprise, also were fact. He says that there are endless disputes between make an important contribution to preventing food my Department and the Department for Communities waste. They work with industry to redistribute good and Local Government, and I can assure him that that quality surplus food that would have been wasted by is not the case. The two Departments are working giving it to people who might otherwise go hungry. together very closely—on a great many areas, including The Courtauld commitment, a voluntary initiative the Localism Bill, which is currently being debated in with retailers and manufacturers in the grocery sector, the House—and we have a good, sensible, hard-working has also helped to reduce food waste. Phase 2, which relationship, which brings benefits both to the environment was launched last year, aims to encourage further significant and to many other areas of our work. reductions in food waste. However, the Courtauld I return to the important, and I hope bipartisan, commitment is not only about food waste. It is a key issues that unite us. Waste prevention is not just for contributor towards our efforts to reduce packaging householders; it is for businesses to take action on too. waste and the carbon emissions associated with packaging More than 600 organisations have signed up to WRAP’s production. Packaging makes up between 18% and 20% halving waste to landfill commitment for the construction of household waste, and about 10% of commercial and industry. The signatories have committed to reducing industrial waste. Reducing packaging can have both the amount of waste they send to landfill, and they are economic and environmental benefits. By using only as well on track to halving it by the end of 2012. much packaging as is necessary to protect goods, businesses With the help of the national industrial symbiosis can save money on raw materials and transport costs. programme, more companies are able to use other Less packaging means that local authorities and businesses firms’ by-products as resources in their own businesses, have less waste to deal with. For example, B&Q has just diverting 35 million tonnes from landfill, eliminating announced that it has swapped the cardboard packaging 1.8 million tonnes of hazardous waste and saving businesses it used to use to transport kitchen components for a £780 million. We cannot afford to miss out on the reusable packaging system. That has prevented 435 tonnes opportunities offered by waste prevention, and we are of cardboard waste and saved the company about working towards a waste prevention programme, which £80,000 per year. will be in place by the end of 2013 at the latest. We will WRAP supports and encourages innovation in packaging set objectives to help us deliver economic growth while design, with the aim of ensuring that packaging uses as reducing waste and its negative impacts. We look forward little material as will do the job, and that it can be to saying more when we have published our waste reused and recycled easily. We are looking not only at review. I can assure hon. Members that if I have not the packaging that surrounds products, but at the products been able to answer their questions today, a cursory 123WH Waste Reduction 18 MAY 2011 124WH

[Richard Benyon] Manufacturing Sector look through that comprehensive document, which will set forth before the House a strategy for the coming 4pm years, will do so. Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): It is an honour Waste prevention can help us to make progress towards to have secured my first Westminster Hall debate on this a greener, zero-waste economy. It conserves natural important subject, and to serve, as a fellow north-west resources, reduces greenhouse gas emissions, and saves MP, under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. Before I local authorities, businesses and householders money, say anything about manufacturing, its status and its and the waste prevention programme will help us to role, I want to explain that I did not apply for this achieve those goals. The Government look forward to debate so that we could have a party political row. I working in partnership with others to tackle this important want to get into some of the specific technicalities of agenda, and I urge hon. Members to look at the waste what the Government are doing in relation to review when it is published and see the value of a proper manufacturing. I hope that the Minister will take what I strategic cross-government approach to this very important have said at face value and that he also wants to engage issue. with the issues, not the party political stuff that we often get caught up in. 3.43 pm I want to concentrate on two specific aspects of Sitting suspended. manufacturing. I want us to acknowledge that this is a time of opportunity for manufacturing. Over the past decade, we had a relatively high pound—sterling was riding pretty high. Now it is lower, which offers an opportunity. I also think that strategic changes in the global economy to do with the cost of fuel and transportation and the price of carbon offer us real opportunities in the supply chain. At this time, we as politicians must weigh in behind manufacturing as a sector. I hope that everybody present agrees with that sentiment. The first aspect that I want to look at relates to career choices, young people and reputation issues for manufacturing, but my real focus will be on the second aspect, which relates to exports, UK Trade and Investment and Government support. There is much else to be said about what manufacturing in Britain needs, but I am sure that we will address those at other times in the House. First, on reputation, less than 3% of people in London work in manufacturing, but many people work in the media and are journalists, so when it comes to talking about the presence of manufacturing businesses in Britain, the popular media gives us an unfortunate feeling and sense that Britain does not make anything anymore. I know that hon. Members present know that that is just not true. If anyone doubts that, let me put on the record how wonderful it is for me as a constituency Member of Parliament to visit Unilever, where we make a huge range of products that people buy every day in supermarkets. Those products are made in Britain, in my constituency, and we are very proud to have them. Not far from my constituency, Airbus makes the wings for the A380. It is inspiring for young people in Wirral to see my constituents go to Airbus and make those amazing aircraft, which are sold all over the world. Every time someone gets on an Airbus aircraft to go on holiday, they are likely to be on an aeroplane whose wings were made by some of my constituents. I say this to all Members: let nobody tell us that we do not make things in Britain; we do. We make amazing things. One reason why I applied to secure this debate was to start a discussion about how we can get that story told in a better way. The situation is having an impact on young people and employment. Throughout the country, young people feel that their options are limited. They are limited not only because it is a tough time for our economy, but by 125WH Manufacturing Sector18 MAY 2011 Manufacturing Sector 126WH knowledge. Without getting into the whole debate about couple of examples on my patch that I think are particularly careers, I think that young people face some difficult successful. It enables that body of knowledge to be used choices and are not necessarily aware of the opportunities by schools and young people as a natural link that does that exist for them in manufacturing. I do not blame not have to be forced. teachers for that. Teachers have a huge amount to do, The second issue that I want to address relates to and we cannot possibly ask them to know the latest exports and Government support. UK Trade and data about manufacturing opportunities as well. Investment recently produced an interesting strategy, I would like to draw the Minister’s attention to the and all of us who care about UK manufacturing and Manufacturing Institute’s “Make It” campaign, which exports need to pay attention to it. It is an important has run successfully in the north-west—without much document, because UKTI is in the lead now in terms of public subsidy, I might add—and with the support of exports from this country. That could not be more partners including Jaguar Land Rover, Siemens, Tetra important at a time in which we are seeing financial Pak, Cogent, Robert Wiseman Dairies, James Walker, difficulty throughout Europe and in this country. I have Chemicals Northwest, Aircelle, C-TEC and many others. said that I do not want a party political debate, but we Those are all fantastic companies and they are working have decided to change the structure of regional support with the Manufacturing Institute to engage young people in England. The Government have decided that regional and give them real skills. development agencies were not the answer, and we now have local enterprise partnerships. I am grateful for the Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): I one that has been set up in my area, in the Liverpool congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate. The city region. There is a changing picture and we need to sentiment that she has expressed is most welcome, and I work out how UKTI’s strategy will work. I have a few am sure that all hon. Members want to do their bit to questions about that, which I will ask the Minister in a increase the profile of manufacturing in this country. moment. Will she join me in supporting the associate parliamentary Before I do, I want to say briefly that one of the manufacturing group’s “Made in Britain” competition? biggest opportunities in manufacturing right now is It will seek to showcase the best that we have to offer in the supply chain. I mentioned in my opening remarks manufacturing and, as a by-product, encourage young the place of sterling now compared with what it was people to do the same. A career in manufacturing is an some years ago and the business case for the supply excellent way forward. chain shifting to the UK in the light of fuel and other transport costs. Some work could be done on that. I Alison McGovern: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his hope that businesses around the country and the intervention and for his steadfast support in Parliament Government are working to make that business case for manufacturing. The associate parliamentary group because it could go unnoticed; for many years, people is incredibly important to this discussion. The competition have had an assumption that the best thing for any that he has mentioned is fantastic. We should all get business is to source overseas because labour costs are behind it and make sure that people see that some of the cheaper elsewhere. things that are made in this country are fantastically diverse. It is not about telling a story about our past, but Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op): about telling a story about what is going on now. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for securing this important A company in my constituency makes the chemicals debate. I could not agree more when she says that the that are sent to Korea to help make iPhones. How cool perception is sometimes that this country does not is that? I think that young people from local schools make anything anymore. Part of the reason for that is who visit the company are genuinely inspired about past changes to supply chains; people perhaps think where a career in science could lead them. That is about that we do not manufacture anything at all. How can we making the things that we have and use now. It is not get a wider understanding of how the supply chain about old-style factories from many years ago. I should works? The example that my hon. Friend gave from her also mention the work of General Motors in engaging constituency of how one specific part of manufacture schools. It has one of the most productive car plants in leads to a much bigger picture was powerful. On the Europe in Ellesmere Port. Showcasing our high level of whole, manufacturing is a very successful story for this technology not only helps abroad—we will talk about country. exports later—but helps to inspire young people so that they can see that they have a future in this country and Alison McGovern: I thank my hon. Friend for that in making things that we all need. intervention. It is a difficult story to tell. When a Will the Minister agree to meet me and the journalist or somebody from the media is taken to Manufacturing Institute at some point to discuss how Vauxhall Motors or any number of big, exciting we can advance its ideas for the “Make It” campaign? It manufacturing locations, they can see what is happening. has been particularly successful in the north-west, and I However, in the future, there will increasingly be smaller, would like to see those opportunities widened to people more specialist suppliers. In addition to fuel costs, the elsewhere in the country. The approach to schools has quality of the product is another driving factor behind to be business-led. We cannot ask heavily-laden head the business case for moving the supply chain closer to teachers to do any more than they are already doing. sites of production. We have to enable businesses in manufacturing to take As we move towards higher-tech production and try the lead and to assist head teachers. to meet some of the challenges of the greener economy, Something else that we might want to consider as a we need a better quality of product. In terms of quality country is how we can get more business leaders from control, we might be looking at smaller, more specialist manufacturing to become school governors. There are a producers. It is difficult to tell that story, but it has to be 127WH Manufacturing Sector18 MAY 2011 Manufacturing Sector 128WH

[Alison McGovern] extended payment terms, with the average number of days until payment being around 88. That is astonishing done. As the BBC moves northwards, I hope that there and is affecting some good local manufacturers in a will be lots of opportunities for those of us from the very bad way—some have been forced out of business. north-west to get these stories out there. It is a difficult A European late payments directive has come into challenge, but it is about telling a story of high quality. force, but it does not seem to be addressing the issue. I hope that she agrees that that matter needs addressing. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): I congratulate my Alison McGovern: I thank the hon. Lady for her hon. Friend on securing this timely debate and I am intervention. She is absolutely right. She has reminded pleased to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. me of an important point that I wanted to make about On the supply chain issue, I represent a manufacturing UKTI—how we check its work and ensure that we, as area so I know that it is important to consider the green Members of Parliament, have full oversight. She is right economy, particularly renewables. Much of the investment about payment times; they can be absolutely make or in renewables will come from the Government and break. I have seen that with companies in my constituency. electricity bill payers. We need to have the imagination to ensure that those jobs come to the UK and to invest If there is a European directive, we, as a country, need in the supply chain, which my hon. Friend has mentioned to make Europe work for us. I suggest that in the British adroitly in her presentation. civil service, there has been a culture of applying directives absolutely to the letter in a way that is very formulaic, rather than saying, “Great, we’ve got this European Alison McGovern: My hon. Friend’s intervention is system. How do we make this work for us?” I gently important. I will come to some of my specific questions suggest that other European nations have done rather for UKTI, about how it recognises not just the sectors better than us. We need to see Europe as an opportunity. that are already successful at a high level, but the sectors If there are such directives, that is fantastic—let us that are strategically placed for the future, even though make them work for business, rather than just accepting they might be small at the moment. Green energy is them being handed down and administering them to certainly one of those. How are we going to ensure that the letter without watching what impact they have on Britain is selling green energy technology to Brazil, the ground for business. It is important for us, as a Russia, India and China in the future? We do not do community of politicians, to watch that. Businesses much of it at the moment, but do we want to do it in the often point out to me how British civil servants tend to future? That is an important question to ask in terms of treat the rules on state aid and state intervention differently strategy. from how civil servants do in other countries. That is an I shall shift away from the supply chain specifically important issue to watch because we can disadvantage and on to UKTI’s strategy, which is contained in an ourselves without even meaning to. interesting document that is important for all of us. I Aligned to that is the matter of how the UKTI want to ask the Minister the following questions. The strategy will affect different parts of the UK. I mentioned strategy identifies five groups with subsectors relating that only nearly 3% of people work in manufacturing in to five parts of the economy, one of which is manufacturing. London, whereas one in 10 in the north-west and more Of those five groups, what will the resource balance be than one in 10 in the north-east do; there is clearly a across UKTI? differential need. Many more people work in manufacturing It is easy to say that what we want is success and to in places close to the constituency of the hon. Member drive resources towards the bits of the economy where for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage). We must recognise we already have success in exporting parts abroad. We that if we have one strategy for the whole UK, we have might also say that if we are really going to rebalance to continue to watch how that helps different parts of the economy, we need to take somewhat more of a risk the UK with different needs. with our resources and invest in those things with which The strategy mentions working alongside the Welsh we might not have had a history of high-level success and Scottish Governments and the London Mayor on over the past 10 or 15 years but in which we know we their plans for exports. That is fantastic and I support need to invest for the future. I would be interested in that approach. However, we obviously need UKTI to understanding a bit more about resource balance. work with somebody in the English regions—the city On monitoring, when we develop the strategy, how regions. If UKTI is not working with regional development will we watch what happens and who will feed back to agencies, it needs to be working with local enterprise Parliament and to businesses on the ground? There has partnerships, which do not have anything like the same sometimes been a bit of a disconnect in terms of resources. They also do not have the same staff to call understanding to whom UKTI is responsible, who its on the services of UKTI. customers are and how it feeds back successes. When I have a final question. How will we check that we are will that happen? We do not want to spend all our time not disadvantaging those parts of the country that do bearing the costs of monitoring, with a thousand tick not have their own Parliament or Assembly? How boxes and charts. empowered will UKTI staff be to add resources to the parts of the country that need them? I have heard Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): I thank the hon. anecdotal evidence that in the past UKTI has been Lady for securing this valuable debate. As the owner of quite centralised around Whitehall. It would be much a manufacturing business, I have an enormous interest better to see that service as a network of people embedded in everything that she has to say. One question that I in local economic clusters. I hope that the Minister will would like to add to her list of things to mention is support less bureaucracy from the centre and more about cash flow. Although that is not a new problem, empowerment to people working alongside companies small manufacturing businesses are suffering from badly to deliver the strategy. That is important. 129WH Manufacturing Sector18 MAY 2011 Manufacturing Sector 130WH

In conclusion, I hope that the Minister will be able to perceptions of what modern industry means. The second respond to those specific questions—if not now, at a is how we equip people, so that industry gets the calibre later date. Manufacturing has a huge amount to offer and range of people that it needs. this country. I know that the Government agree and I Changing those negative perceptions—the hon. Lady am grateful for that support. There is every reason to is right about the media—will be a challenge; some of think that now is the time for a new impetus. Strategically them are deeply embedded. For example, in 2009, the and globally, we are well placed to improve our number of graduates in science, technology, engineering manufactured exports. They have a huge amount to and maths actually represented 43% of those leaving offer the country—not just next year, but in the next our universities. Only 5%, however, go on into industry. 20 or 30 years. Clearly many young people who have the potential In recent years, we have seen manufacturing go through skills that industry needs are going elsewhere. They have a high level of productivity improvements, so we are not seen industry as something for them. That is the very well placed at the moment to maximise impact. mindset that we have to change. We have to show young However, if we leave things to chance and have a people what is the case, rather than what they might do-nothing option, it will be business as usual and only think—to fire up their imaginations and ensure that the sectors that are already strong and influential will be they can see that there are genuinely rewarding careers so. I hope that we can all take this opportunity not to in industry. have business as usual and to empower both UKTI and I would like to highlight the work of the Manufacturing the rest of Government really to work alongside Institute, to which the hon. Lady referred. I would be manufacturing. more than pleased to meet its representatives and the hon. Lady. They have already met officials in my Department, and I strongly commend their organisation’s 4.21 pm work. I suspect that some of that work coloured my own views on what we needed to do when I was asked to The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation take on this role a year ago. When I started, I wanted to and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): May I also congratulate showcase, in the large reception area in the Department, the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) what we make. We have already been able to show a on securing the debate on this important subject? I wide range of products, through a series of exhibitions. gather that this is her first debate in Westminster Hall. It is about an excellent subject. The hon. Lady referred to the composite wings. After some challenges, not least having to take the door The hon. Lady pointed out that in her constituency, down, we installed one of the composite wings into the as in others, modern manufacturing is crucial. She reception area to demonstrate what we make. We also mentioned Unilever. We have learned about the role of exhibited the first zero-carbon motorbike made in this GM Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port and that of Airbus country. There are many other products that we want to nearby. All are at the cutting edge in their own fields. exhibit and we are building up that programme so that They are all businesses of which we should be proud people across business, and the wider public, can see and I know that they are directly important to her what we do. constituents. She is right to say that manufacturing should be a non-partisan issue. I share fully her desire We want to go further. We have announced open days to ensure that manufacturing is at the heart of Government across industry so that factories, and those who work in policy. We are determined to ensure that we establish a them, can show their neighbourhood what they make. more resilient economy so that when we face, as we will, Rather than telling people, it is often wiser to show different shocks and challenges, we have a broader them; that is the heart of this argument. That will economy. Manufacturing plays a vital role in that. change perceptions. GM Vauxhall and Jaguar Land Rover are among the many automotive businesses who I would like to put on the record my own encouragement have signed up to this, which we are calling, “See Inside and support—my private office will regret this, no doubt— Manufacturing”. We will roll that out now over the for the associate parliamentary manufacturing group, whole manufacturing sector so that we can engage which is very important. It is absolutely right that hon. people and show those who have never stepped into a Members across the House should feel that they can modern factory what it is really like. play a part in promoting this vital part of our economy, and I happily commend the group’s work. We want to ensure that we tackle the myth about low salaries. As the Manufacturing Institute points out, As the hon. Lady said, some would have us believe there is a misconception. According to the Office of that we are not in the business of making things. They National Statistics, the median salary for professional are wrong. In fact, this country remains one of the engineers is just more than £36,000 a year, which is in world’s leading manufacturing nations. Manufacturing the top 30% of UK salaries. As people’s careers develop, generates approximately £140 billion of our economy— that rises to a median level of £55,000 for a skilled some 11% of gross value added. On exports, to which engineer, which is in the top 10%. Most people do not she rightly referred, manufacturing represents 55% of realise that, and that is the mindset that we are working everything that we export to the rest of the world. with industry to change. Encouragingly, in the past year we have seen an increase I am aware of the time, so I will just touch on the in that programme—approximately 19% on a year-on-year issue of skills and then move on to the issue of exports. basis. That is good news. The issue of skills is crucial. If we fire up the enthusiasm Let me turn to the specific points that the hon. Lady of the next generation of engineers, we need to ensure raised about the profile and status of manufacturing. In that they are equipped to do the job. We have focused a sense, that is a broader and longer question. There are on university technical colleges, so that we can deal with two issues. The first is to tackle head-on the outdated the vocational desire that many young people have 131WH Manufacturing Sector 18 MAY 2011 132WH

[Mr Mark Prisk] Policing Costs (Football Matches) while still at school age—14 and onwards. They will be able to get their hands dirty and do practical things that 4.30 pm they can learn from. That is what UTCs are all about. Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): I am delighted That needs to be harnessed by going further, so we to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, are expanding massively the whole apprenticeship Mr Crausby. I am particularly grateful to Mr Speaker programme. There are excellent examples—I am aware for granting me this debate on contribution to the costs of the one in Wirral, the Wirral Apprenticeship Scheme, of policing football matches by premiership clubs. It is which local businesses take up. We are looking to put my first Westminster Hall debate, as it was that of the £180 million, from the last Budget, on top of what we hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern), have planned for, so there will be approximately 250,000 who secured the previous debate. additional places in the next four years. That will take To set the parameters of the debate, my proposals the perception of young people through to equipping this afternoon only relate to premiership football clubs. them with the skills that can benefit industry, too. We Policing costs are associated with other sporting events, need to deliver on that through-thinking. including lower league football matches. However, In the few moments I have left, I will touch on premiership football matches require a uniquely heavy exports and the supply chain issue. The five-year plan police presence, because of the number of fans involved set out by UKTI is crucial. The hon. Lady is right; if it and the rivalries. The policing requirements of Wimbledon, were to be run from London without any genuine local the Ashes at Lord’s or even an international rugby roots, whether in Merseyside, Manchester or the midlands, match at Twickenham are much lower compared with it would fail in its task. We have made sure that UKTI is those of premiership football. In general, sports spectators working with local enterprise partnerships across England, are not violent or confrontational, and other sports as well as our good friends in Wales, Scotland and do not have the same problems as football and hence do Northern Ireland, so that they have a strong national not need to separate fans or have strict alcohol laws. voice abroad, but deep local roots in terms of local Premiership games require a huge police presence, knowledge and information. In particular, that means and I am challenging the idea that the taxpayer should that the international trade directors, who are the local pay for the adverse effects of one party on another. My keys to this, are already developing strong working contention is not that all sporting fixtures should pay relationships with local enterprise partnerships. for the costs of policing their matches, because at the The hon. Lady mentioned the supply chain, which is poorer end of the scale that could wipe out the profit very important. The automotive sector is crucial. In the made on a small-scale fixture. However, with the average past 12 months, I have pushed the industry and worked salary of a premiership footballer now estimated at with it. We have now developed a road map. The £55,000 a week, and with some earning as much as four industry has identified £1 billion-worth of goods that it times that amount, or a salary of more than £10 million currently imports to use in the vehicles that it assembles, a year, the affordability of premiership football clubs and which it would be happy to procure in this country. paying the full costs of policing their highly profitable That is a good example of how we can develop, and I businesses cannot be questioned in any way. My simple want to build on it if I can. contention is that the total police costs attributable to In conclusion, I endorse totally the points raised by the policing of a premiership football match should be the hon. Lady. We need to ensure that people understand met by the clubs and not by the taxpayer. modern manufacturing and recognise it as a rewarding To give some background, the provision of policing career. That is why we have been showcasing leading at a football match, or at any other commercial event products and producers, promoting the benefits of STEM such as a music concert, is a special police service. subjects, and working with industry to show that there Special police services are governed by section 25 of the are good and valuable careers. There is a lot more to do Police Act 1996: in this field, but this is a welcome debate and I hope that “The chief officer of police of a police force may provide, at hon. Members on both sides of the House, across the the request of any person, special police services at any premises political parties, can work together—not just in Parliament, or in any locality in the police area for which the force is but with the rest of industry as well. maintained, subject to the payment to the police authority of charges on such scales as may be determined by that authority.” In effect, special police services are extra that police officers provide for security at commercial events. The event organiser must pay for the service at a price determined by the chief constable. If the cost is not met, the organiser can be denied a safety certificate and therefore cannot hold the event. In 2008, the Association of Chief Police Officers made a submission to the Home Office about the Green Paper on the future of policing, calling for the introduction of full-cost policing. Full-cost policing would extend the definition of special police services beyond the so-called footprint of the event to include consequential policing: policing that is provided beyond the event itself, at train stations or town centres, to deal with crowds arriving at and leaving a commercial event. How 133WH Policing Costs (Football Matches)18 MAY 2011 Policing Costs (Football Matches) 134WH is that ACPO submission currently viewed in the Home calculate such costs quite accurately. They know the Office? How would a similar submission by ACPO costs for policing in the ground—the footprint—and today—for recovery of full-cost policing from football outside, because we have obtained those figures under clubs—be regarded by Home Office Ministers? the FOI requests. A simple test would be to ask a police Under current arrangements, football clubs are only force what its extra deployment would be if there were a legally obliged to pay for the policing in their footprint, home match on a Saturday. The police would tell us which usually means inside the stadium and the surrounding straight away: they would have an extra 10 coppers at car parks. However, the provision of consequential the station, a sergeant to oversee, and everything else. policing outside a football match—for example, at the Those officers would not otherwise be deployed, so it is nearest railway or tube station, in nearby pubs and bars quite easy to calculate the extra costs. or even in the city centre—is currently the responsibility Further figures obtained by Miss Patel for the most of the police and is provided at their discretion and recent season, 2009-10, showed that West Midlands their cost. Clubs do not have to pay for that extra police recovered £1.23 million for policing the home service, so the cost is paid for by the taxpayer. That has games of Wolves, Aston Villa and Birmingham City. led to a disparity between what the police estimate the That is an increase of 40% on the previous season total cost of policing a football match to be, and what because of an extra west midlands club being in the top the clubs currently pay. In the 2007-08 season, it was flight—I accept that that might change by the end of estimated that the policing of 13 premier league football the week if Wolves or Birmingham go down. If the clubs cost the police £3.2 million in consequential policing. policing costs outside the football club premises went That difference was met by the taxpayer. up by the same ratio, the taxpayer bill for the 2009-10 The disparity is the result of current case law—in season would be an estimated £372,555. Extrapolated particular, the case of the chief constable of Greater across the country and the 20 premiership clubs, that Manchester v. Wigan Athletic—but also of Home Office would equate to £2.5 million, which is equivalent to guidance on charging for the policing of football matches. 106 police constables or 68 sergeants—at which point, The result, according to a report of the Select Committee such figures start to appear rather significant. on Home Affairs on this issue in July 2009, is that ACPO itself, in a BBC news article in October last “some forces recovered less than half, some as much as two thirds year, estimated that it costs the police up to £25 million of the costs of policing football”. to deal with all football matches, but that they only recover £12 million to £15 million a year from the clubs. The current disparity, therefore, is between what the That is for all football matches, whereas my proposal is clubs are legally obliged to pay in policing costs and for premiership clubs only. Hammersmith and Fulham what the police actually estimate those costs to be, council estimates that the total cost of policing football and it stems from grey areas in the current legislation matches in its borough, which, uniquely, has three and Home Office guidance. Can the Minister address premiership clubs, will be £5.69 million a season. Either that issue in his response, and ask his officials to look way, the cost of policing football matches ranges from into clarifying such an important area? £2.5 million to £5.6 million to £15 million, depending What are the actual costs? Sunita Patel, the London on how many clubs and matches are included, and correspondent for the Wolverhampton Express & Star, according to the different estimates by different forces has recently submitted freedom of information requests of policing their local games. However, one thing from to the West Midlands police on the issue. Her story, all those figures is abundantly clear. The taxpayer is published yesterday, revealed some interesting results. subsidising wealthy football clubs to the tune of millions Data obtained from the West Midlands police show of pounds a year, and my simple question to the Minister that the force estimated costs of £1.14 million to police is: why? Aston Villa and West Bromwich Albion’s home fixtures There is an issue and a principle. The issue is the in 2008-09. However, the force was only reimbursed disparity between what the clubs are legally obliged to £875,655, leaving a shortfall of £266,111. That quarter pay in policing costs, and what the police estimate those of a million pounds alone would pay for 10 police costs to be. The principle is that the polluter pays. On constables or seven sergeants. In essence, the police are the taxpayer subsidy provided to clubs through extra recovering only three quarters of the costs of policing paid-for policing, my personal feeling is that the estimated Villa and West Brom. consequential costs are far higher than freedom of information figures from the west midlands suggest. Let Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con): Does my us consider three recent examples. hon. Friend agree that the biggest challenge is the lack At the derby match involving Arsenal and Spurs on of transparency—that a freedom of information request 31 October last year, a large group of hooligans smashed had to be submitted? Coupled with that, if he was up several pubs after their side’s 3-0 defeat, causing granted his wish and football clubs in effect had to pay thousands of pounds of damage. Because of the nature for their own policing, surely they should also have a of the derby rivalry at the previous year’s game, the greater say in how that policing is carried out. police classified it as high risk, and almost tripled the number of officers on duty from 180 to 560. In the north- Mr Burley: That is a fair point. One of the challenges east alone this year, British Transport police has already to such arguments is that defining the cost of consequential overspent its football budget by around £400,000. In policing is difficult. Is a fight in a bar at midnight April, a dozen arrests were made after a town centre pub between two guys wearing football shirts, a long time was forced to close when Wigan Athletic, Sheffield after the match, the responsibility of Villa and West United, Barnsley and Manchester United fans turned Brom or of the police only? However, my argument, violent, and the police again had to call in hundreds of and what we found in the FOI figures, is that the police extra patrols to deal with the disturbance. 135WH Policing Costs (Football Matches)18 MAY 2011 Policing Costs (Football Matches) 136WH

Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): I reluctantly spent £2,000 on a special cage to encase his congratulate my hon. Friend on calling this important skip. My question to the Minister is: why are the same debate. As he is aware, British Transport police does not police not telling their local premiership football clubs police football grounds—it is completely separate from that it is their responsibility to make sure that the local that—but it estimates that in 2009-10, policing premiership community is safe, that the streets are cleaned, and that games on Saturdays alone cost £8 million and involved the train stations are protected from damage as a result deploying more than 300 police. That, as I say, excluded of their businesses? matches between Mondays and Fridays, and on Sundays. That is all extra expense for the public purse. Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate, and I thank Mr Burley: My hon. Friend makes a good point. It is you, Mr Crausby, for chairing it. I do not disagree with difficult to know how far the footprint goes. People the hon. Gentleman’s principle, but I would like to hear catch trains to football matches, and one sees them at his thoughts on some of the wider issues. He seems to all the stations. That is why I contend that the consequential have drawn a harsh line, although he has tried to policing cost is far greater than we think. Whatever the address that, and my question is: why just premiership figures, it is clear that it costs more than we recover clubs? from the clubs, and my question is: why? A recent English Defence League demonstration in We have all seen the extra police in tube stations and Blackburn on 4 April cost a fortune to police. The hon. town centres on match days. They are there for one Gentleman asked why taxpayers are paying for premiership reason: because it is match day. They are doing their job matches to be policed, but what about the EDL of safeguarding the community, preventing trouble from demonstration? What about other demonstrations that occurring, and dealing with scuffles and fights between cost local taxpayers a fortune? What about large community fans. My simple question is: why are the clubs not being events that must be policed? Where is the line to be billed for those extra policing costs? drawn? Will he explain why he is referring only to In other walks of life there is a principle of, the premiership clubs, and why that is fair? polluter pays. A constituent, Nigel Clempson, runs a successful shop-fitting company in Rugeley. I am grateful Mr Burley: I am more than happy to do that. I to Richard Littlejohn in the Daily Mail for highlighting framed my debate narrowly to premiership clubs. In his case in the national press. He said that my constituent essence, the direct answer is that there are two reasons. “is the kind of businessman upon whom Britain’s recovery depends.” First, they are unique in the intensity of policing and His team of craftsmen work seven days a week, mostly number of police required for their entertainment activities, at night, refurbishing shops and banks. All the debris which is very different from the number of police at that they strip out of the buildings they are refitting is Glastonbury, an athletics meeting or at Wimbledon. So taken back to the firm’s yard at Rawnsley, near Cannock, one reason is the number of police involved and the where it is dumped in a large skip to await recycling and regularity of matches, and the second is the clubs’ disposal. Because of the nature of the firm’s business, wealth. ACPO figures suggest that if the premiership the yard is accessible round the clock, and the skip clubs paid the total cost of policing their matches in the attracts the attention of local rag and bone men and whole country, that would amount to some £15 million groups of Travellers who sort through it in search of a year. I understand that Wayne Rooney is paid £10 million salvage. a year, and he is one striker in one club. Clearly, the clubs can afford it. Nigel Clempson has never had a problem with scavengers, who are looking for scrap metal and other materials There seems to be a fundamental inconsistency in our that they can sell for a few bob, but recently he had a messages to local businessmen and to premiership football visit from a police officer and an inspector from Cannock clubs. Is that because it is easier to pick on small council’s environmental health department. The police businesses than on giant football clubs? had seen some Travellers loading scrap from his yard into a transit van, and he was told that he needed a Graham Jones: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? licence to transport industrial waste. He assured them that his company was fully insured and licensed, but Mr Burley: I must carry on to my conclusion. At the was told, “Ah, but the Travellers aren’t.” Nigel was heart of this debate is a disparity between what clubs informed by the police that it was his duty to ensure that are legally obliged to pay in policing costs, and what the anyone taking material from his premises had a waste police estimate those costs to be. That stems from grey transfer certificate. areas in current legislation and Home Office guidance. We all know that Travellers come and go at all hours, It is not clear to what extent football clubs and other so how was Nigel expected to keep track of everyone, holders of commercial events are liable for policing and make sure that they were carrying the correct away from the footprint, and that leads to the disparity permits? The police said that that was up to him, but between the full cost of policing a match, and what the that if any of the material was fly-tipped and traced clubs believe they are liable to pay. There is also an issue back to him, he would face a hefty fine. People might of principle. If people like Nigel Clempson are being ask why the onus should be on Nigel, and not on the told by the police that they are responsible for putting Travellers themselves, who probably do not tax their cages on skips, why on earth are premiership football own vehicles, so they are hardly going to bother getting clubs not being similarly told that they are responsible a waste disposal certificate. The principle is that a local for the policing costs incurred by their businesses? businessman from the west midlands has been told that Finally, the reality of the wider economic situation is it is his personal responsibility to make sure that a gang that the police must make savings of up to 20%. We of Travellers do not remove stuff from a skip, so he has know that they are finding that a challenge, and officers 137WH Policing Costs (Football Matches)18 MAY 2011 Policing Costs (Football Matches) 138WH in many forces are being retired after 30 years, while Should an organiser be unwilling to pay for the level police community support officers and police staff are of policing deemed necessary to ensure public safety, being lost. West Midlands police alone must save the chief police officer can refuse to provide policing £125 million over the next four years. Why not provide services. That may mean that the event organiser is extra revenue from a source that can afford it? That denied a safety certificate by the relevant local authority, would help to mitigate the massive cuts being made to and without that certificate the event cannot take place. deal with the record deficit bequeathed to us by the last Although the Home Office does not have formal Government. powers to mandate charging or the level of charging, guidance has been provided in the form of circular 4.49 pm 34/2000. Chapter 13 of that guidance deals specifically with the policing of football matches. The Association The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green): I of Chief Police Officers—ACPO—produced guidance congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock on charging for special police services in 2005, as well as Chase (Mr Burley) on securing this debate on an issue in the 2008 document referred to my hon. Friend. that is important in itself. As a season ticket holder at Reading football club, and after last night’s play-off Football clubs are currently required by police forces results, I hope to be taking a personal interest in premier to pay only for the policing of their so-called “footprint” league policing next season. area. That usually refers to the area inside the stadium and, for example, the surrounding car parks or streets. First, I will comment on the vital role played by the In latter case, however, costs can be recovered only police in ensuring the safety of the public at all football when there is an express or implied request from the matches, not just those in the premier league. Levels of club for that service to be provided. The provision of football violence and disorder have fallen consistently “consequential policing” outside a football match—for over a number of years, particularly since the introduction example, at a railway station or town centre—is currently of tough banning order legislation and the associated the responsibility of the police. It is provided at their radical football disorder strategy in 2000. discretion and at a direct cost to them. Football clubs Last season, total attendance at regulated football are not currently required to pay for that extra service, matches in England and Wales exceeded 39 million as my hon. Friend has made clear. people, mostly in the premier league. Over the same period, football-related arrests fell by 10% and levels of I appreciate that in some cases that ambiguity has led football violence and disorder continue to be low. However, to a disparity between what a police authority estimates a lingering threat remains—it is perhaps more than as the total cost of policing a football match, and what lingering in some cases—and the police continue to play the football club actually pays. It is clear that there is a crucial role in ensuring public safety. Let me take this considerable depth of feeling about the extent to which opportunity to thank them for their continued hard football clubs, particularly those in the premier league, work and dedication. should cover the full policing costs incurred, and there are strong arguments on both sides. The police argue As my hon. Friend is aware, premier league football that policing a football match results in extra expense, matches are policed on a public order basis where the regardless of whether their presence is on the club’s aim is to prevent or deter trouble. Police adopt a visible “footprint” or not. The football clubs argue that the but low-friction approach. They will intervene in stadia distinction is not so clear cut, and that if they neither as appropriate—usually at an early stage to prevent require nor request police presence away from their escalation—and defuse, detain or eject anyone who is “footprint”, they should not be liable for the cost of engaging in violent, disorderly or antisocial behaviour. police services elsewhere. Such policing is intelligence-led and based on a dynamic risk assessment. It means that football clubs and police authorities are able to agree on an appropriate level of Mr Burley: On that point, is not the distinction rather policing in advance of each match, based on the level of more clear-cut than the football clubs would have us risk as determined by the latest available intelligence. believe? As I mentioned earlier, an inspector for an area That ensures that the policing service provided is with a premiership football club that holds matches on proportionate to the risk. Saturdays will sit down with their team and decide to deploy a certain number of extra officers at tube stations, The provision of policing at a premier league football trains and town centres. They know how much that match, or any other commercial event such as a music extra deployment will cost and that such costs are the concert, is considered a “special police service”, and it is direct result of the match that afternoon—if there were governed by section 25 of the Police Act 1996. Special no match, the extra deployment would not be needed. It police services are those provided beyond the normal is not confusing, because the extra costs are clear-cut. line of duty, such as when extra officers are deployed at a site to reduce the risk to public safety during an event. Where the event is seen as commercial—such as a Damian Green: My hon. Friend would be right if the premier league football match—the event organiser is number of police officers needed in anticipation of a responsible for meeting the costs incurred by providing particular crowd, disorder or other problem that might that service. The cost of policing an event is determined require special policing measures were unambiguous. I locally by the police authority in negotiation with the am afraid, however, that that is not the case. The police event organiser, and not by the Home Office. That already provide a policing service, which is their job, system allows flexibility and permits police authorities and deal with crime and disorder in town centres, to take into account any benefits and the ability to pay railway stations and so on. It would be easier if the of the event organiser when determining charges at a situation were as clear-cut as my hon. Friend has suggested, local level. but I do not think that it is. 139WH Policing Costs (Football Matches)18 MAY 2011 Policing Costs (Football Matches) 140WH

Eric Ollerenshaw: Last year, the Metropolitan police such services. That includes non-profit-making local said that 18,000 police had been deployed over the year and community-led organisations, which must not be to police premiership football. Have the Government prevented from their activities by prohibitive policing looked at the impact of that on other crimes that take costs. place while those policemen are deployed ferrying supporters between railway, bus and tube stations? Graham Jones: Will the Minister give way? Damian Green: My hon. Friend has made an interesting point, but the logic behind that argument is that we Damian Green: I apologise to the hon. Gentleman, should stop holding big public events that might excite but I have little time left. Having such a wide range of emotion or violence, because there will always be a parties with an interest in policing makes the situation knock-on effect on police costs. We have a police service even more complex. As a result, a solution to the case of so that people can go about their normal business, and premier league football matches cannot be reached for many people in this country, attending football overnight. I agree, however, that increasing the clarity matches is just that. I am not sure that it should be and consistency of existing guidance in the light of case regarded as an alien imposition on the wider community. law—such as the recent cases of Wigan Athletic and Greater Manchester police—could help to ensure a My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase more reasoned approach to charging for special police made the ACPO case for full cost recovery, but football services. That would help reduce the prevalence of clubs play a key role in local communities and do a lot disputes between event organisers, including premier of good work in education and health. I am keen for league football clubs, and police authorities, while them to remain in a position that enables them to maintaining the all-important principle of local discretion. provide those benefits to the community, and I do not want to tie them up with more red tape and obligations. I reassure my hon. Friend that Home Office Ministers This issue will not go away, and it is clear that many are considering carefully all options to ensure a mutually people feel strongly about who should pay for policing beneficial resolution to the problem. We are not there premier league football. We must make progress on yet, but an increasing body of evidence will enable us to that. I recognise that the disparity between what premier get close to a solution that I hope will square the very league clubs are required to pay for policing and what difficult circle, and allow our successes in policing football police forces estimate the full costs to be could be over the past few years to continue, so that people can interpreted as a form of subsidy. I argue, however, that carry on enjoying football just as much. that interpretation is too simplistic. It is important to Question put and agreed to. remember that the provision of special police services extends beyond premier league football clubs to all 4.59 pm organisations, both sporting and otherwise, that require Sitting adjourned. 13WS Written Ministerial Statements18 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 14WS

The review presents us with opportunities to support Written Ministerial dynamic UK businesses that will deliver innovation, growth and jobs in the years to come, it offers us the Statements chance of a future where there is a thriving market for Britain’s creative talent, where the value of innovation and research outweighs the fear of piracy and counterfeiting Wednesday 18 May 2011 and where we as customers are surprised and delighted by what digital technology offers us, not worried or confused. This report is the culmination of six months of BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS diligent inquiry by Professor Hargreaves and his panel of experts, and we thank him and his colleagues for their hard work. Local Enterprise Partnerships (Gloucestershire) The Government will aim to publish their substantive response before the parliamentary recess. Copies of the “Hargreaves Review” have been placed The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation in the Libraries of both Houses. and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I, together with the Minister of State with responsibility for decentralisation, Department for Communities and Local Government, my right hon. Review of Offender Learning Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), would like to inform the House that today we have The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong written to the proposed Gloucestershire local enterprise Learning (Mr John Hayes): I am publishing today “Making partnership inviting it to put in place governance Prisons Work: Skills for Rehabilitation”, the report on arrangements. the review of offender learning that I commissioned last Local enterprise partnerships see a real power shift summer. The document sets out our reform programme away from central Government and quangos and towards for offender learning. Our plans mark a departure from local communities and the local businesses who really existing practice. The means of managing the system understand the barriers to growth in their areas. This and measurement of outcomes will change dramatically announcement brings the total number of partnerships and, consequently, so will the allocation of resources. so far invited to put their governance arrangements in “Making Prisons Work: Skills for Rehabilitation”, place to 34. Taken together these represent 1.9 million which has been developed jointly with the Ministry of or 94% of all businesses (active enterprises) in England, Justice, takes careful account of the Government’s plans 22 million employees (employee jobs figures) or 94% of for reform of adult learning and skills over the remainder all employees in England and a population of 49 million of this Parliament, plans for reform in the criminal or 94% of England’s population. We will continue to justice system and the 98 responses to our call for work with other areas with a view to establishing further evidence. I thank all those who took the time to submit local enterprise partnerships across England. their views. The plans also reinforce our public service reforms, shifting power away from the centre of Government Review of Intellectual Property and Growth into the hands of front-line staff and the partnerships that operate at a local level to deliver services. The link between recidivism and the failure of The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and ex-offenders to find work is clear. If those in prison Skills (Vince Cable): I together with my right hon. acquire the skills needed to gain employment on release Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer would like to from prison there is a good chance that they will turn inform the House that Professor Ian Hargreaves has their lives around. today presented the Government with findings of their independent review of intellectual property and growth. We are determined to make prisons places where people learn skills to build lives beyond crime. And the We welcome this timely report and its identification authenticity of what is taught and tested will be assured of the IP system as a high-stakes issue and of innovation by its relationship with further learning and employment. as the key element in economic growth from intellectual Plainly, skills acquired through prison education must property. make ex-offenders more employable. In these terms Intellectual property has an enormous impact on prison must be made to work. Those closest to the individuals, businesses and industries and on the UK as effects of their decisions on the funding and management a whole. It affects what we can and cannot do in of learning provision should be responsible and accountable. business, in education and in our daily lives. The Some of the previous reforms to the skills system Government want to see a future where technological inside prisons have brought about improvements: certainly, innovation, successful creative businesses and strong we have increased prisoner participation in learning and international brands go hand in hand. skills. However, we are still failing to ensure prisoners The Prime Minister asked Professor Hargreaves to continue their progress on release in terms of further focus on the Government’s top priority, growth. The learning or employment. To address this, we will place a Hargreaves recommendations have the potential to add much greater focus on developing the vocational skills between 0.3 to 0.6% to annual GDP and to cut the costs demanded by employers in the areas to which prisoners of doing business with IP by £750 million a year by are to be released, making offender learning an authentic 2020. part of the wider skills system. That sharpened focus 15WS Written Ministerial Statements18 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 16WS will also enable us to support the drive towards prisons where there is a serious threat to financial stability or increasingly becoming places of meaningful work. As market confidence. I ensured that the Commission and responsibility is devolved to those closest to the effects the Council, thanks to a written statement, would work of their decisions, accountability will be assured through during the trialogues to find a solution taking into measurement of outcomes. account the concerns expressed by member states in the We will reflect the Government’s focus on payment ECOFIN Council regarding the powers of ESMA in by results by introducing outcome incentive payments: article 24. providers’ payments will be based, in part, on their Savings taxation directive success in helping get people into jobs. Our new emphasis The Council held an orientation debate on how to on decentralised control and accountability means we proceed with a proposal aimed at strengthening the will change the distribution of resources between prisons, provisions of the EU’s directive on the taxation of supporting our determination to put in place the right savings interest. The Council agreed to continue working skills offer for the offender while they are within the on reaching agreement. justice system. That will be framed by a significant Financial sector taxation change from the current system, introducing a focus on clusters of prisons between which prisoners tend to The Commission updated the Council with an interim move and with wide implications for the way people report of financial sector tax and regulation. The Council work together. also received a report from the Economic and Financial Committee, providing a factual overview of financial To put these changes in place, we shall re-procure the levies and taxes. Ministers took note of the reports. The offender learning contracts for delivery in adult prisons Commission was asked to produce an impact assessment in England. on various options of financial sector taxation. The For offenders in the community, supervised by the high-level working party on tax will continue work on probation service, we will place a new collaborative this subject and report back as appropriate. emphasis on the skills system in helping offenders gain Nomination of the President of the European Central the competences that will help them into work. Bank My Department will not be able to do all of this The euro area member states, in Council, adopted a alone. The interaction between the Department for recommendation on the nomination of Mario Draghi Work and Pensions, especially the Work programme (Italy) as President of the European Central Bank, to and Jobcentre Plus’s other employment support, and succeed Jean-Claude Trichet, whose term of office expires the skills system will be critical to our success in making on 31 October 2011. The Council’s recommendation sure that offenders use their newly acquired skills to will be submitted to the European Council, which will secure work. Just as important is the need to engage consult the European Parliament and the ECB, with sectors, social enterprises, charities and voluntary a view to adopting a final decision at its meeting on organisations whose dedication and expertise makes 23-24 June 2011. such a positive difference to so many lives. Financial back-stops “Making Prisons Work: Skills for Rehabilitation” is available on the BIS website at http://www.bis.gov.uk/ The Council approved a draft statement on guiding and copies will be deposited in the Libraries of both principles on financial backstops, for financial institutions Houses. which are shown to be vulnerable by this year’s EU-wide stress tests. The presidency confirmed that bank stress test results will be published later this year. Review of economic adjustment programme for Ireland TREASURY Finance Ministers adopted a decision to modify the conditions underpinning financial assistance to Ireland ECOFIN (17 May 2011) under the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM), in order to prepare the disbursement of a second loan instalment. This follows a review by the The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): IMF and the Commission, liaising with the European The Economic and Financial Affairs Council was held Central Bank, of progress made by Ireland in implementing in Brussels on 17 May 2011. The following items were its economic adjustment programme, which was approved discussed: last November. Economic governance Financial support to Portugal The Council took note of a report from the presidency The Council adopted a decision allowing for ¤26 billion on progress in negotiations with the European Parliament of financial assistance to Portugal under the European on a package of legislative proposals on economic Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM), part of an governance. The presidency took on board the views of overall ¤78 billion package of assistance. This will also member states and agreed to take these forward during comprise ¤26 billion of loans under the euro area-only further negotiations with the European Parliament, European Financial Stability Facility and ¤26 billion which are ongoing, with a view to finalising legislation from the IMF under its Extended Fund Facility. The by the end of June. EFSM loan will have a maximum average maturity of Short selling regulation 7.5 years and a margin of 215 basis points on top of the The Council agreed a general approach on the draft EU’s cost of funding. The aid will be provided on the regulation on short selling and credit default swaps. The basis of a three-year policy programme for the period intention of the regulation is to harmonise short selling up to mid-2014, which was negotiated with the Portuguese requirements across the European Union and harmonise authorities by the Commission and the IMF, in liaison the powers that regulators may use in exceptional situations with the European Central Bank. 17WS Written Ministerial Statements18 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 18WS

The economic and financial adjustment programme customer-centric approach to digital identity assurance includes; across all public services. This will allow service users to structural reforms to boost potential growth, create jobs, log on safely to digital public services in a way that and improve competitiveness; ensures personal privacy, reduces fraud and facilitates a fiscal consolidation strategy, supported by structural fiscal the move to online public services. measures and better fiscal control over public-private- Today I am setting out the context and vision for this partnerships and state-owned enterprises, aimed at putting delivery programme and will explain how my Department the gross public debt-to-GDP ratio on a firm downward will draw on expertise from organisations in the public path in the medium-term and reducing the deficit below 3% of GDP by 2013; and private sector to agree the design for this new a financial sector strategy based on recapitalisation and approach. NO2ID and other privacy advocates are deleveraging, with efforts to safeguard the financial sector being kept closely informed of developments and given against disorderly deleveraging through market-based the opportunity to contribute and comment. This is a mechanisms supported by backstop facilities. cross-departmental initiative and the approach will be Financing climate change introduced in the near term through major Government The Council adopted conclusions on climate finance. initiatives such as DWP’s universal credits, NHS These conclusions outline the key issues and next steps HealthSpace, HMRC’s one click programmes and the in international climate finance. The Government welcome Skills Funding Agency. these conclusions. Online services have the potential to make life more Information on the Informal ECOFIN meeting convenient for service users as well as delivering cost Ministers received a summary from the presidency on savings. However, currently customers have to enter the issues that were discussed at the Informal ECOFIN multiple log-in details and passwords to access different which took place in Budapest on 7-8 April 2011. public services, sometimes on the same website. This involves significant duplication, is expensive to operate Draft general budget for 2012 and is highly inconvenient for users. It acts as a deterrent The Commission presented its proposed general budget to people switching to digital channels, hampers the for 2012 to the Council, which included a 4.9% increase vision of digital being the primary channel for accessing in payments. I made it clear that this proposal was Government information and transactions, and provides completely unacceptable. In line with the agreement an opportunity for fraudsters. made between the UK, France, Germany, the Netherlands Our intention is to create a market of accredited and Finland in December 2010, the Government’s opinion identity assurance services delivered by a range of private is that growth in the EU’s annual budget must be sector and mutualised suppliers. A key improvement curbed, in order to reflect difficult economic conditions will be that people will be able to use the service of their and tough measures taken by national Governments to choice to prove identity when accessing any public cut spending. service. Identity assurance services will focus on the key Dialogue with EU candidate countries imperative to ensure privacy. My Department is leading Ministers held an informal meeting with their the project to develop the design and the creation of the counterparts from the EU candidate countries: Turkey, market within the private sector. By October 2011 we Croatia, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, expect to have the first prototype of the identity assurance Montenegro and Iceland. The meeting focused on the model to test with transactional Departments and public candidate countries’ economic policies. sector identity assurance services, with a date for AOB: Purple File implementation from August 2012. This item was added to the agenda at the request of Poland. They raised their concerns with the Purple File, which sets out procedures to follow when a member COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT state seeks a flexible credit line from the IMF. The UK believes that the procedure needs to be identical for both euro and non-euro area countries, whereby the Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Economic and Financial Committee is informed of, Affairs Council Agenda (19 May 2011) and given the opportunity to discuss, any request for financial assistance by any EU member state. European Stability Mechanism The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for In an inter-governmental meeting preceding ECOFIN, Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): it was agreed that member states could forward a draft The Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer of the inter-governmental treaty (between euro area Affairs Council will be held on 19 May in Brussels. member states only) creating the new, permanent European Andy Lebrecht, UK Deputy Permanent Representative stability mechanism to national parliaments. I will write to the EU will represent the United Kingdom. to the chairs of the European Scrutiny Committees This will be a single-issue Council on the subject of with the draft text. Roma integration. On 5 April, the European Commission published a communication on an EU framework for national Roma integration strategies up to 2020. Based CABINET OFFICE on this, the presidency has invited the Council to hold an exchange of views and adopt a set of Council Identity Assurance conclusions and an opinion from the Social Protection Committee. The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster The UK will agree that Roma in many parts of General (Mr Francis Maude): The Government agreed Europe experience extreme poverty, discrimination and on 14 March 2011 to the development of a consistent, exclusion and that the primary responsibility for tackling 19WS Written Ministerial Statements18 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 20WS this lies with the member states. We will therefore welcome ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE the fact that the conclusions represent a clear political commitment by EU member states to take concrete Fukushima (Interim Report) steps to improve the situation of their Roma nationals, while recognising that the situation in each member state is different. The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change We will outline the fact that in the UK we have a (Chris Huhne): Today I have laid before the House the strong and well-established legal framework to combat chief nuclear inspector’s interim report on the events at discrimination and hate crime and that this protects all Japan’s Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear site in March. individuals, including Roma, Gypsies and Travellers, Dr Mike Weightman, supported by his colleagues in from racial and other forms of discrimination and the Office for Nuclear Regulation, produced this racially motivated crime. We will also acknowledge that independent report which examines the immediate lessons the UK’s Gypsies and Travellers none the less experience learned for the UK nuclear industry. The final report is inequalities and we will summarise the action being due in September. undertaken in the different parts of the UK to deal with Safety is and will continue to be our number one this. priority. We take the incident at Fukushima very seriously. We also acknowledge the importance of co-ordination Although the plant is stabilising, the situation remains between member states to tackle organised crime, critical. However, progress in securing the site is being particularly trafficking, which can affect Roma, especially made; and the operator, Tepco, has outlined a roadmap Roma children. to recover the plant during the next year. We will note the opportunity that EU funds provide Dr Weightman believes that there is sufficient information to member states to add value to their policies to available for his interim report to reach a number of improve the situation of Roma and other disadvantaged conclusions and recommendations, which have concentrated people. on potential lessons for the nuclear power reactor sector. And finally, we will underline the importance of However some of his recommendations are relevant to sharing good practice between member states and of all sectors. His final report will cover all of the nuclear ensuring that any EU activity complements, rather than industry in more detail. duplicates, that of other international organisations. Dr Weightman has drawn a number of conclusions. He states that the direct causes of the nuclear accident—a magnitude nine earthquake and associated 14-metre high tsunami—are far beyond the most extreme events DEFENCE the UK could expect to experience. In this respect he concludes there is no reason for curtailing the operation of nuclear power plants or other nuclear facilities in the UK. Nevertheless Dr Weightman notes severe events UK/Iraq Bilateral Agreement can occur from other causes, and that learning from such events is fundamental to the robustness of our nuclear safety arrangements. I can therefore confirm The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox): I that once further work on the recommendations is wish to inform the House that the UK/Iraq training and completed any proposed improvements to safety maritime support agreement that has provided naval arrangements will be considered and implemented in training and maritime support to Iraq will conclude on line with our normal nuclear safety regulatory approach. 22 May 2011. The interim report also identifies various matters that British Forces have been involved in this important should be reviewed to improve the safety of the UK task since 2003 and, under the agreement signed in nuclear industry. I consider it an absolute priority that 2009, Royal Navy trainers have developed the capacity the regulators, industry and Government act responsibly of the Iraqi maritime security forces to protect their to learn from the 26 recommendations in the report; territorial waters and offshore oil platforms, which are and to respond to them within one month of today’s vital to Iraq’s economic revival. publication. Having successfully completed their mission UK Dr Weightman’s recommendations require the personnel deployed to Iraq under this agreement will review of a wide range of nuclear safety matters, including now leave the country. international and national emergency response arrangements, This will mark the formal conclusion of Operation public contingency planning, communications and the Telic but it is not the end of our bilateral defence review of flooding studies, site and plant layouts, electricity relationship with Iraq. We will: continue to train members and cooling supplies, multi-reactor site considerations, of the Iraqi security forces at UK training establishments; spent fuel strategies and dealing with prolonged accidents. continue to contribute to the NATO training mission in I very much welcome this approach, and I believe it is Iraq; and continue to engage with the Government of vitally important that the regulators and industry continue Iraq at the highest levels on defence and security issues. to adhere to the principle of continuous improvement Finally, we will maintain defence capabilities in the for all existing and future nuclear sites and facilities. The wider Gulf region as part of our enduring contribution interim report does not identify any implications for the to Gulf security. strategic siting assessment of new reactors and I do not I pay tribute to all UK service personnel who have believe the final report will either. served in Iraq over the last eight years and to the In taking this important work forward Dr Weightman sacrifices made by so many for the benefit of the people deserves our thanks. The International Atomic Energy of Iraq and our national security. Agency (IAEA) has recently noted that the UK has a 21WS Written Ministerial Statements18 MAY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 22WS mature, transparent and independent regulatory system, ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS an advanced review process, and highly trained and experienced nuclear inspectors. The reputation of the Annual Report of the Veterinary Products Committee UK’s regulatory regime is further endorsed by the and its Sub-Committees 2010 appointment of Dr Weightman to head up the IAEA’s review of events in Japan. I would like to congratulate The Minister of State, Department for Environment, him on his appointment, which reinforces our belief Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice): Ihavereceived that he is the right person to consider the lessons the annual report of the Veterinary Products Committee learned for the UK’s own nuclear industry. and its sub-committees 2010, which has been published In the light of the events at Fukushima, we have today. agreed with our European colleagues that the safety of Copies of the report have been placed in the Libraries existing nuclear sites and equipment in the EU should of both Houses. be subject to “stress testing”. We believe these stress I am pleased to acknowledge the valuable work done tests will supplement the UK’s already robust regulatory by the distinguished members of the Veterinary Products regime. The scope of the stress test is currently being Committee and its sub-committees and thank them for developed by the European nuclear safety regulators the time and effort dedicated in the public interest to group and the European Commission. this important work. My officials will review carefully the interim report, Single Payment Scheme but from my discussions with Dr Weightman I see no reason why we should not proceed with our current policy: namely that nuclear should be part of the future The Minister of State, Department for Environment, energy mix in the future as it is today, providing that Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice): In my statement there is no public subsidy. of 31 March, Official Report, columns 35-36WS, I outlined the measures the Rural Payments Agency (RPA) This policy has recently been supported by the Committee was taking to speed the flow of the remaining payments on Climate Change in its “Renewable Energy Review” to farmers under the 2010 single payment scheme (SPS). which states that The introduction of those measures, including making “nuclear should play a key role in taking Britain towards a clean manually validated payments in some circumstances, prosperous future as it is a safe power and the lowest-cost, ensured that RPA exceeded its revised payment profile large-scale, low-carbon electricity source”. in April. Some claimants who the agency had estimated could be paid in that month were not, often because Subject to careful consideration of the detail of they were linked to others through a complex web of Dr Weightman’s interim report, I intend to bring forward entitlements transfers. Apart from a few exceptional for ratification as soon as possible the energy national cases, RPA has either telephoned or written to all those policy statements, which are principally about the planning affected to explain the position and will look to prioritise guidance on energy infrastructure for the IPC but will their payments where possible over the coming month. also include a list of potential sites for nuclear power The agency kept above profile overall by managing to stations. resolve issues preventing payments on some claims that Any further implications from the final report can be had been estimated to be paid in May or June. taken on board subsequently. Regulators and industry As of Friday 13 May, the total value of payments will continue to work together to take forward the made to some 101,176 farmers had reached £1.63 billion generic design assessment process. They will need to (94.54%). The number of eligible claimants left to pay factor into this work the recommendations outlined in at that point was estimated to be 3,177. The agency the interim report. We encourage them to work together remains on course, therefore, to meet the EU benchmark in setting out their timeline for conclusion of the process. to avoid late payment penalties; that is, making 95.238% of the total value of payments, by the end of this I strongly welcome Dr Weightman’s interim report. I month. The RPA oversight board, which I chair, will encourage the regulators to work closely with industry continue to monitor progress to ensure that, wherever it and other partners to take the recommendations forward, is legally possible to do so, these remaining payments and I look forward to receiving the final report in the reach farmers by the end of the regulatory payment autumn. window on 30 June.

193W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 194W Written Answers to Devolution Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Questions Wales (1) whether her Department will lead on the proposal for a process for Wales similar to the Calman Commission on devolution funding; [56146] Wednesday 18 May 2011 (2) what recent discussions she had had on the proposal for a process for Wales similar to the Calman Commission on devolution funding. [56147]

WALES Mrs Gillan: I am considering with Cabinet colleagues how best to take forward the Government’s commitment Departmental Billing to establish a process for Wales similar to the Calman Commission. I look forward to discussing the issue with the First Minister following his recent reappointment. Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales (1) how many invoices her Department received Greater Manchester in respect of goods or services supplied by tier 1 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and how many of those invoices were not paid within the period of Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for time specified in the Government’s Fair Payment guidance; Wales whether her Department has made any payment [55857] to (a) the Manchester college, (b) Manchester college for arts and technology and (c) City college, Manchester (2) what mechanism her Department has established since 1997. [55750] to ensure its payments are passed through the supply chain to each tier in accordance with the last date for Mr David Jones: No. payment defined in the Government’s Fair Payment guidance. [55880]

Mr David Jones: Being a small department, the Wales WORK AND PENSIONS Office does not procure contractors directly and therefore received no invoices between 1 May 2010 and 1 April Departmental Accountancy 2011. The Wales Office uses contracts granted by the Ministry of Justice and larger Government Departments. Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether any ministerial directions have Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers been issued to the accounting officer of his Department since his appointment. [52018] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how much her Department spent on special advisers’ Chris Grayling: No ministerial directions have been travel by (a) Government car, (b) private hire car, (c) issued to the accounting officer at the Department for train, (d) bus, (e) commercial aircraft and (f) private Work and Pensions since my appointment. aircraft since May 2010. [56091] Departmental Billing Mr David Jones: In line with the Secretary of State’s decision in May 2010 all Wales Office Ministers, Officials Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for and Special Advisers travel standard class rather than Work and Pensions how many invoices his Department first class by rail. received in respect of goods or services supplied by tier The Wales Office has spent £3,284.70 on train travel 1 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and for our special adviser since May 2010, which is a how many of those invoices were not paid within the significant saving on the previous year when the Department period of time specified in the Government’s Fair had two special advisers. Payment guidance. [55856] We have made no expenditure on Government Car, Chris Grayling: The following information details the private hire car, bus or any air travel for the special volumes of payments to suppliers made to the Department adviser. for Work and Pensions’ (DWP) suppliers between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011 by the Department: Departmental Mobile Phones To note, DWP payment terms are calculated from the receipt of a valid invoice rather than the date of invoice. Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Total number of invoices received was 772,209. Of what the name is of each contractor or supplier of (a) which 13,964 payments were made outside the 30 day mobile telephone and (b) mobile data services to her payment target; 17,906 were made outside the 10 day Department. [56052] payment target; and 104,572 were made outside the five day payment target. The Government’s Fair Payment Mr David Jones: Such devices are obtained by my guidance relates to the construction sector. The Department Department through the central procurement arrangements for Work and Pensions’ (DWP) estate is managed under provided by the Ministry of Justice. Under this arrangement, contract by Telereal Trillium so the Department has no the suppliers are Vodafone and Orange. direct construction requirements. 195W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 196W

The “Prompt Payment Code”, published-by Institute These figures include some costs that -were payable of Credit Management (ICM) on behalf of the Department on behalf of the child maintenance and Enforcement for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) gives a code of Commission which is a Non-Departmental Public Body practice for prompt payment. DWP has been a signatory for which the Department provides some litigation services. of the code since June 2009 and adheres to this through These figures do not include some costs in relation to the Prompt Payment Targets. motor accident claims in 2008-09 which were handled under outsourced arrangements. Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for In answering this question, the Department has assumed Work and Pensions what mechanism his Department that the term “civil claims” refers to claims issued in has established to ensure its payments are passed through England and Wales, in the courts of civil jurisdiction. the supply chain to each Tier in accordance with the last The figures provided do not therefore include employment- date for payment defined in the Government’s Fair related claims pursued through the Employment Tribunals. Payment guidance. [55879] The increase in spend in 2010-11 can be attributed to the final resolution of costs payable in a case that had Chris Grayling: The Government’s Fair Payment been heard in the Court of Appeal in 2008. guidance relates to the Construction sector. The Department for Work and Pensions’ (DWP) estate is managed under contract by Telereal Trillium so the Department has no Departmental Mobile Phones direct construction requirements. Where DWP suppliers use sub-contractors to deliver Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Work a contract, our terms and conditions insist that a provision and Pensions what the name is of each contractor or is included in the sub-contract requiring payment to be supplier of (a) mobile telephone and (b) mobile data made of all sums due by the contractor to the sub- services to his Department. [56053] contractor within a specified period not exceeding 30 days from receipt of a valid invoice. Chris Grayling: The department sources its mobile The DWP website confirms that where suppliers use telephone and mobile data services through a contract sub-contractors, invoices should be paid within 30 days with BT Plc. BT in turn subcontract these services to and sub-contractors are able to report non compliance Vodafone Plc. and a suitable e-mail contact address is provided to enable them to do so. Employment Schemes: Barking and Dagenham The “Prompt Payment Code”, published by Institute of Credit Management (ICM) on behalf of the Department Margaret Hodge: To ask the Secretary of State for for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) gives a code of Work and Pensions how many voluntary organisations practice for prompt payment. DWP has been a signatory will be involved in the delivery of the Work programme of the code since June 2009 and adheres to this through in Barking and Dagenham; and what proportion of the the Prompt Payment Targets. supply chain this figure represents. [55277]

Departmental Legal Costs Chris Grayling: Nationally there are over 300 first tier Third sector organisations. In addition, there are a significant number of organisations providing ad-hoc Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Work support as customer requirements dictate. and Pensions how much his Department paid in (a) damages, (b) claimant costs and (c) defendant costs The competition is still underway at the moment, in respect of all civil claims brought against his when contracts have been signed, further details of the Department in which the claimant was successful or contracts will appear on Government websites (Contract the Department settled in each of the last three years. Finder) as part of the ongoing commitment to the [54636] Transparency agenda.

Chris Grayling: The amount of damages paid by the Incapacity Benefit: Glasgow Department for Work and Pensions is not held centrally and this information could be provided only at Mr Davidson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work disproportionate cost. The Department uses both its and Pensions how many claimants of incapacity benefit own litigation department and external suppliers of in Glasgow South West constituency are receiving incapacity legal services in the conduct of its litigation and the benefit because of (a) alcohol dependency, (b) drug costs of these services in relation to civil claims in which dependency and (c) obesity-related illnesses; and if he the claimant was successful or the Department settled will make a statement. [53919] are also not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. The amount of claimant costs Chris Grayling: The information requested is given as paid in respect of each of the last three years is as follows. follows: Condition in Glasgow South West parliamentary constituency— August 2010 Financial year Claimant costs (£) IB/SDA ESA 2010-11 1,038,396.87 Alcoholism 240 70 2009-10 818,704.46 Drug Abuse 160 40 2008-09 629,665.31 Obesity 10 — 197W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 198W

“—” denotes nil or negligible. offences; and if he will conduct a review of the common Notes: law practice of joint enterprise. [56014] 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. To qualify for incapacity benefit (IB), claimants have to undertake a medical assessment of incapacity for work called a personal capability Mr Blunt: The law on joint enterprise already provides assessment. Under the employment support allowance (ESA) regime, that members of a group who embark on an agreed new claimants have to undergo the work capability assessment. plan to commit an offence may all be found guilty. The From April 2011 incapacity benefit recipients have begun to also question of whether to prosecute an individual gang undertake this assessment. The medical condition recorded on the claim form does not itself member involved in the commission of an offence is a confer entitlement to incapacity benefit or employment and support matter for the Crown Prosecution Service taking account allowance. So, for example, a decision on entitlement for a customer of all the evidence available. We are not planning a claiming IB or ESA on the basis of mental and behavioural disorders review at this stage. would be based on their ability to carry out the range of activities assessed by the personal/work capability assessment. Antisocial Behaviour: Fixed Penalties 3. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment and support allowance from October 2008. 4. Data include people in receipt of benefit and also those who fail the Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for contributions conditions but receive a national insurance credit, ie Justice how many fixed penalty notices for disorder ‘credits only cases’. were issued for (a) shop theft and (b) criminal damage Source: in each police force area in each year since their introduction; DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS. and how many such notices remain unpaid. [55929]

Mr Blunt: The number of penalty notices for disorder JUSTICE issued and the payment rate for the offences of retail theft and criminal damage by police force area, in Aiding and Abetting England and Wales, from 2004 to 2009 can be viewed in tables 1 and 2. Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for It is not possible to make an accurate assessment of Justice pursuant to the answer of 11 May 2011, Official how many penalty notices remain unpaid as, once fines Report, columns 1259-60W, on joint enterprise, what are issued in default of payment, they are indistinguishable steps he is taking to ensure the prosecution of all those from other fines. The overall payment rate for all fines in a gang or group involved in the commission of in the financial year to March 2011 was 93%.

Table 1: Number of penalty notices for disorder issued, paid and percentage paid for persons aged 16 and over, for criminal damage by police force area, England and Wales 2005-091 2004 2005 2006 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

Avon and Somerset 25 16 64 404 287 71 478 309 65 Bedfordshire 11 6 55 143 88 62 214 129 60 British Transport police 0 0 0 0 0 0 108 70 65 Cambridgeshire 9 7 78 107 72 67 171 108 63 Cheshire 37 13 35 317 175 55 300 161 54 Cleveland 13 9 69 280 141 50 461 192 42 Cumbria 14 11 79 66 47 71 226 152 67 Derbyshire 21 17 81 283 195 69 512 339 66 Devon and Cornwall 74 47 64 659 440 67 932 612 66 Dorset 19 16 84 217 151 70 244 162 66 Durham 1 0 0 32 22 69 111 53 48 Essex 43 26 60 405 265 65 358 223 62 Gloucestershire 2 2 100 205 114 56 476 276 58 Greater Manchester 70 39 56 482 255 53 982 520 53 Hampshire 36 23 64 211 138 65 354 238 67 Hertfordshire 12 9 75 148 104 70 751 427 57 Humberside 16 9 56 182 102 56 719 338 47 Kent 35 22 63 782 471 60 1,196 650 54 Lancashire 91 44 48 822 394 48 1,394 648 46 Leicestershire 19 14 74 180 112 62 240 133 55 Lincolnshire 36 24 67 250 159 64 236 147 62 London, City of 0 0 0 2 2 100 6 5 83 Merseyside 52 23 44 961 416 43 1,187 516 43 Metropolitan 154 82 53 932 465 50 1,217 572 47 Norfolk 0 0 0 0 0 0 93 60 65 North Yorkshire 0 0 0 11 9 82 306 198 65 Northamptonshire 23 0 0 84 44 52 313 159 51 Northumbria 1 13 57 132 86 65 467 318 68 Nottinghamshire 28 21 75 121 80 66 139 81 58 199W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 200W

Table 1: Number of penalty notices for disorder issued, paid and percentage paid for persons aged 16 and over, for criminal damage by police force area, England and Wales 2005-091 2004 2005 2006 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

South Yorkshire 0 0 0 6 2 33 344 156 45 Staffordshire 11 9 82 193 120 62 326 182 56 Suffolk 14 10 71 91 64 70 140 88 63 Surrey 0 0 0 11 8 73 284 190 67 Sussex 0 0 0 289 176 61 521 308 59 Thames Valley 36 22 61 310 203 65 458 276 60 Warwickshire 19 16 84 158 102 65 172 119 69 West Mercia 12 9 75 236 150 64 509 311 61 West Midlands 32 15 47 541 271 50 620 282 45 West Yorkshire 146 62 42 1,138 598 53 1,169 622 53 Wiltshire 15 8 53 41 33 80 35 15 43

England 1,127 644 57 11,432 6,561 57 18,769 10,345 55

Dyfed Powys 25 12 48 147 97 66 229 155 68 Gwent 14 8 57 153 89 58 303 155 51 North Wales 21 15 71 320 183 57 560 289 52 South Wales 3 2 67 116 66 57 759 407 54

Wales 63 37 59 736 435 59 1,851 1,006 54

England and Wales 1,190 681 57 12,168 6,996 57 20,620 11,351 55

2007 2008 2009 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

Avon and Somerset 346 232 67 312 207 66 245 166 68 Bedfordshire 142 83 58 84 40 48 53 32 60 British Transport police 152 105 69 124 76 61 105 70 67 Cambridgeshire 277 170 61 195 126 65 111 72 65 Cheshire 171 102 60 132 75 57 115 66 57 Cleveland 374 168 45 231 101 44 183 79 43 Cumbria 189 123 65 63 44 70 52 31 60 Derbyshire 417 245 59 262 158 60 102 57 56 Devon and Cornwall 621 422 68 262 199 76 208 153 74 Dorset 147 100 68 97 68 70 75 56 75 Durham 137 69 50 108 57 53 285 139 49 Essex 323 199 62 205 129 63 103 56 54 Gloucestershire 261 141 54 102 70 69 53 37 70 Greater Manchester 1,116 650 58 913 528 58 675 384 57 Hampshire 528 328 62 289 188 65 317 215 68 Hertfordshire 560 319 57 325 221 68 319 209 66 Humberside 982 422 43 500 235 47 351 173 49 Kent 1,230 675 55 1,069 567 53 861 476 55 Lancashire 1,340 546 41 978 441 45 762 364 48 Leicestershire 257 148 58 165 93 56 68 37 54 Lincolnshire 157 98 62 94 69 73 61 48 79 London, City of 15 13 87 2 2 100 2 1 50 Merseyside 616 254 41 402 182 45 304 138 45 Metropolitan 1,293 631 49 996 501 50 728 385 53 Norfolk 127 79 62 171 114 67 94 60 64 North Yorkshire 457 306 67 254 172 68 109 79 72 Northamptonshire 307 158 51 188 95 51 126 76 60 Northumbria 543 372 69 525 337 64 431 245 57 Nottinghamshire 195 124 64 141 92 65 123 84 68 South Yorkshire 736 345 47 611 277 45 419 224 53 Staffordshire 286 160 56 184 105 57 124 74 60 Suffolk 175 117 67 169 110 65 99 71 72 201W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 202W

2007 2008 2009 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

Surrey 341 251 74 139 97 70 118 77 65 Sussex 524 331 63 271 169 62 184 125 68 Thames Valley 645 385 60 488 314 64 346 228 66 Warwickshire 128 83 65 96 65 68 101 65 64 West Mercia 371 245 66 244 139 57 154 94 61 West Midlands 582 315 54 320 168 53 237 120 51 West Yorkshire 862 492 57 389 228 59 299 178 60 Wiltshire 43 23 53 113 66 58 75 45 60

England 17,973 10,029 56 12,213 6,925 57 9,177 5,289 58

Dyfed Powys 187 134 72 150 111 74 148 106 72 Gwent 258 123 48 332 155 47 233 119 51 North Wales 733 405 55 448 251 56 332 199 60 South Wales 795 381 48 284 182 64 255 153 60

Wales 1,973 1,043 53 1,214 699 58 968 577 60

England and Wales 19,946 11,072 56 13,427 7,624 57 10,145 5,866 58 1 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used.

Table 2: Number of penalty notices for disorder issued, paid and percentage paid for persons aged 16 and over, for retail theft by police force area, England and Wales 2005-091 2004 2005 2006 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

Avon and Somerset 43 14 33 836 342 41 1,335 617 46 Bedfordshire 2 1 50 247 90 36 449 159 35 British Transport police 0 0 0 0 0 0 221 66 30 Cambridgeshire 6 5 83 148 85 57 411 205 50 Cheshire 58 22 38 523 158 30 532 209 39 Cleveland 24 6 25 479 178 37 689 201 29 Cumbria 29 18 62 123 72 59 244 127 52 Derbyshire 17 9 53 175 98 56 545 274 50 Devon and Cornwall 137 57 42 1,361 591 43 1,768 744 42 Dorset 18 11 61 238 157 66 448 240 54 Durham 1 1 100 33 17 52 67 29 43 Essex 106 62 58 700 375 54 896 461 51 Gloucestershire 0 0 0 255 79 31 770 285 37 Greater Manchester 72 43 60 811 445 55 1,785 935 52 Hampshire 58 29 50 429 225 52 656 300 46 Hertfordshire 14 12 86 357 221 62 1,491 696 47 Humberside 14 6 43 329 120 36 1,221 360 29 Kent 46 22 48 1,630 681 42 2,520 993 39 Lancashire 188 42 22 1,546 487 32 2,259 667 30 Leicestershire 37 23 62 357 177 50 491 201 41 Lincolnshire 44 17 39 310 136 44 283 124 44 London, City of 0 0 0 6 2 33 21 9 43 Merseyside 163 61 37 2,241 655 29 2,920 778 27 Metropolitan 373 138 37 2,914 1,100 38 4,227 1,773 42 Norfolk 0 0 0 0 0 0 286 139 49 North Yorkshire 2 0 0 26 13 50 369 179 49 Northamptonshire 35 2 100 101 32 32 705 283 40 Northumbria 0 15 43 155 93 60 518 330 64 Nottinghamshire 41 19 46 170 94 55 189 102 54 South Yorkshire 2 2 100 0 0 0 553 295 53 Staffordshire 14 11 79 165 74 45 371 169 46 203W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 204W

Table 2: Number of penalty notices for disorder issued, paid and percentage paid for persons aged 16 and over, for retail theft by police force area, England and Wales 2005-091 2004 2005 2006 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

Suffolk 11 5 45 87 46 53 232 139 60 Surrey 0 0 0 19 9 47 472 251 53 Sussex 4 2 50 566 267 47 1,057 524 50 Thames Valley 34 19 56 342 173 51 913 482 53 Warwickshire 33 15 45 151 64 42 223 126 57 West Mercia 25 17 68 413 243 59 950 512 54 West Midlands 66 25 38 1,082 417 39 1,281 511 40 West Yorkshire 200 78 39 963 445 46 884 459 52 Wiltshire 12 6 50 25 14 56 21 9 43

England 1,929 815 42 20,313 8,475 42 35,273 14,963 42

Dyfed Powys 30 10 33 132 43 33 129 70 54 Gwent 48 16 33 631 181 29 639 199 31 North Wales 62 27 44 659 246 37 1,130 386 34 South Wales 3 2 67 262 112 43 1,601 551 34

Wales 143 55 38 1,684 582 35 3,499 1,206 34

England and Wales 2,072 870 42 21,997 9,057 41 38,772 16,169 42

2007 2008 2009 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

Avon and Somerset 1,089 532 49 1,315 652 50 1,260 689 55 Bedfordshire 389 135 35 505 178 35 624 254 41 British Transport police 227 87 38 225 83 37 187 68 36 Cambridgeshire 813 311 38 759 368 48 855 431 50 Cheshire 598 291 49 620 331 53 732 391 53 Cleveland 767 195 25 675 188 28 724 251 35 Cumbria 308 130 42 227 140 62 271 177 65 Derbyshire 632 291 46 672 311 46 684 346 51 Devon and Cornwall 1,402 634 45 939 553 59 860 533 62 Dorset 503 262 52 434 204 47 472 235 50 Durham 149 65 44 224 81 36 621 217 35 Essex 1,040 517 50 1,453 758 52 1,285 718 56 Gloucestershire 576 183 32 256 110 43 241 123 51 Greater Manchester 2,759 1,515 55 2,961 1,681 57 3,308 1,970 60 Hampshire 1,447 729 50 1,331 735 55 1,621 962 59 Hertfordshire 1,464 730 50 1,423 919 65 1,974 1,176 60 Humberside 1,827 457 25 1,608 431 27 1,333 461 35 Kent 2,857 1,027 36 3,129 1,047 33 2,934 1,207 41 Lancashire 2,642 882 33 2,325 809 35 2,078 928 45 Leicestershire 587 238 41 564 272 48 519 263 51 Lincolnshire 217 104 48 169 83 49 280 166 59 London, City of 18 7 39 14 5 36 11 5 45 Merseyside 2,422 773 32 2,457 852 35 2,371 927 39 Metropolitan 5,040 1,870 37 6,260 2,669 43 6,903 3,398 49 Norfolk 495 258 52 724 367 51 727 433 60 North Yorkshire 589 274 47 461 226 49 376 230 61 Northamptonshire 749 290 39 667 261 39 630 312 50 Northumbria 812 497 61 959 504 53 1,074 475 44 Nottinghamshire 400 211 53 498 265 53 514 318 62 South Yorkshire 1,318 650 49 1,449 715 49 1,924 1,029 53 Staffordshire 446 198 44 455 206 45 618 339 55 Suffolk 402 233 58 470 265 56 565 320 57 Surrey 669 352 53 599 327 55 629 372 59 Sussex 1,000 500 50 915 489 53 1,071 650 61 205W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 206W

2007 2008 2009 PNDs PNDs PNDs Police force area issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage issued Paid Percentage

Thames Valley 1,459 779 53 1,861 1,027 55 1,951 1,176 60 Warwickshire 221 133 60 280 151 54 277 155 56 West Mercia 855 486 57 919 502 55 886 479 54 West Midlands 1,150 484 42 918 417 45 564 269 48 West Yorkshire 611 320 52 431 240 56 542 332 61 Wiltshire 71 36 51 600 272 45 504 266 53

England 41,020 17,666 43 42,751 19,694 46 45,000 23,051 51

Dyfed Powys 124 60 48 143 68 48 169 110 65 Gwent 717 269 38 737 278 38 783 287 37 North Wales 1,193 420 35 899 343 38 901 384 43 South Wales 2,092 696 33 1,086 520 48 1,308 697 53

Wales 4,126 1,445 35 2,865 1,209 42 3,161 1,478 47

England and Wales 45,146 19,111 42 45,616 20,903 46 48,161 24,529 51 1 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used.

Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme disproportionate costs. The available information from MoJ chart of accounts, from May 2010 to April 2011, is Mr Nuttall: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice provided in the following table: what recent progress has been made on the review of the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme. [56231] Travel by type: OPG NOMS HMCS TS

Mr Blunt: The Government intend to make an Private hire — 376,778 408,593 27,343 announcement before the summer recess. of vehicles Trains 146,000 1— 82,806 21,057 Departmental Data Protection Buses — — — — Overseas 2,000 221,643 9,190 0 Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for travel2 Justice how many contracts his Department holds Private 0000 which allow contractors to store personal data of UK aircraft citizens overseas; to which contracts this applies; in Travel — 13,276,866 26,266,305 4,702,338 other3 which countries the data for each such contract is held; and how many people have their data stored overseas under each such contract. [55744] Total travel 148,000 13,875,286 26,766,894 4,750,737 spend Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice does not have Of which: any contracts where personal data of UK citizens is Business 146,000 13,657,568 26,747,506 4,744,191 stored overseas. unit Chief 2,000 217,718 19,388 6,546 executive Departmental Travel officer4 1 Included under travel other Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2 Overseas travel represents travel by commercial aircraft in most (1) how much each executive agency of his Department cases. 3 has spent on travel by (a) private hire vehicles, Travel other includes all other travel spend that can not be disaggregated further on the accounting system and includes all prison officer, (b) trains, (c) buses, (d) commercial aircraft and (e) judiciary, magistrate and juror travel costs which would include rail, private aircraft since May 2010; [56071] buses, private vehicle hire, taxis and private mileage. (2) how much has been spent on travel in respect of 4 Agencies cannot provide discrete costs for the CEO but only for the CEO’s budget area which includes his wider office and direct support (a) each of his Department’s executive agencies and staff. (b) the chief executive of each such agency since May 2010. [56181] Legal Aid: Gurkhas Mr Djanogly: The Department is unable to provide this information fully in the categories requested directly Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for from its accounting systems. The journey types by trains, Justice how much legal aid relating to the processing of buses, cars or other are aggregated under single travel immigration cases for former Gurkhas was paid to account codes and to disaggregate those would incur each law firm in each of the last five years. [56160] 207W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 208W

Mr Djanogly: The information requested is not available. subsequently convicted of a similar offence (a) in total Records held by the Legal Services Commission do not and (b) in each region in each of the last five years; indicate whether or not a particular case related to a [56013] former Gurkha. (2) how many people who were released from prison Legal Aid: Reform were subsequently convicted for offences related to violent crime (a) in total and (b) in each region in each of the last five years; [56015] Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what progress his Department has made on his proposed (3) how many people who were released from prison were subsequently convicted of a sexual offence (a) in reforms to civil legal aid. [56216] total and (b) in each region in each of the last five Mr Djanogly: We are making good progress in preparing years. [56016] the Government’s response to the consultation. I anticipate being able to publish the response soon after Whitsun Mr Blunt: The following figures relate to offenders recess. released from prison in England and Wales. Regional break-downs of these figures are not available. Prison Service: Manpower Table 1 as follows provides information on the number of adult offenders released from prison in the first Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice quarter of each year after serving a sentence for burglary (1) how many vacancies there were at each prison who went on to commit another burglary offence in the directly operated by HM Prison Service in the (a) West following twelve months. Midlands and (b) East Midlands for each grade of staff employed by HM Prison Service on 31 March Table 1: Number of adult offenders who subsequently committed a 2011; [56004] burglary offence after release from a prison sentence for burglary (2) what the (a) operational staffing requirement 2005 344 and (b) number of staff in post was at each prison 2006 322 directly operated by HM Prison Service in the (i) West 2007 308 Midlands and (ii) East Midlands for each grade of staff 2008 394 employed by HM Prison Service on 31 March 2011. 2009 490 [56005] Table 2 as follows provides information on the number Mr Blunt: Information on the operational staffing of adult offenders released from prison in the first requirement, staff in post and funded vacancies for quarter of each year who went on to commit either a each grade in each establishment within the East Midlands violent or sexual offence in the following twelve months. and West Midlands regions on 31 March 2011 is contained Table 2: Number of adult offenders who subsequently committed a in a table which has been placed in the Library. sexual or violent offence after release from prison Prison Service: Manpower 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 Sexual 97 104 121 143 138 Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Violent 2,051 1,890 1,833 2,517 2,390 (1) pursuant to the answer to the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) of 16 March 2011, Official Report, For more detail on how re-offending is measured columns 459-61W, on the Prison Service: manpower, please see the Ministry of Justice website: how many individuals have been appointed on the new http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/ prison officer contract since 31 December 2010; and reoffendingofadults.htm how many such individuals remained in post on the latest date for which figures are available; [56040] Reoffenders: Crimes of Violence (2) pursuant to the answer to the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) of 16 March 2011, Official David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for Report, columns 459-61W, on the Prison Service: Justice how many people have been convicted on more manpower, how many of the individuals appointed on than one occasion for offences related to violent crime the new prison officer contract between 30 September in each region in each of the last five years. [56007] 2009 and 31 December 2010 remained in post as at 31 March 2011. [56041] Mr Blunt: The following tables show the numbers and proportions of offenders sentenced between 2005 Mr Blunt: Between 31 December 2010 and 31 March and 2009 for an offence of violence against the person, 2011 143 staff took up post as prison officer 2s. Of in each region of England and Wales, who at the time of these 136 were still in post on 31 March 2011. their sentence had at least one previous conviction for Of the 851 staff who took up post as prison officer 2s an offence of violence against the person. between 30 September 2009 and 31 December 2010, Table 1: Number of offenders1 sentenced for an offence of violence 771 remain as officers as at 31 March 2011. against the person, by region, 2005-09, who had a previous conviction for an offence of violence against the person Reoffenders Number Region 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009

David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for North East 1,092 1,197 1,410 1,433 1,441 Justice (1) how many people who were released from North West 3,201 3,492 3,553 3,602 3,389 prison having served a sentence for burglary were 209W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 210W

Table 1: Number of offenders1 sentenced for an offence of violence are in custody; and what proportion of such children against the person, by region, 2005-09, who had a previous conviction were formerly looked after children in care. [55645] for an offence of violence against the person Number Mr Blunt: The YJB does not hold data down to local Region 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 authority level; however we do hold data down to Yorkshire 1,791 1,871 2,087 1,940 2,057 Youth Offending Team level. The majority of Youth and Offending Teams are coterminous with local authorities Humberside in England and Wales; however there are some exceptions East 1,167 1,225 1,228 1,274 1,190 where a single YOT covers two or more local authorities Midlands (see Annex A for a list of YouthOffending Teams which West 1,825 2,050 1,991 1,972 1,928 cover more than one local authority area). During Midlands 2009-10, there were 157 YOTs; 139 in England and 18 in Eastern 1,217 1,227 1,242 1,292 1,312 Wales. The following table shows the average proportion London 2,195 2,263 2,461 2,604 2,623 per 1,000 young people aged (a) 12 to 15 and (b) 16 South East 1,674 1,812 1,885 1,981 1,925 and 17 year olds in each youth offending team in South West 1,067 1,079 1,067 1,146 1,193 England and Wales that were in custody (remanded and Wales 1,117 1,163 1,181 1,231 1,079 sentenced) for the period of 2009-10. The population England 16,346 17,379 18,105 18,475 18,137 data are from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) and Wales and are based on mid-year estimate from 2008, which is the latest available population data with the age breakdown. Table 2: Percentage of all offenders1 sentenced for an offence of violence against the person, by region, 2005-09, who had a previous Accurate data are not available on the number of conviction for an offence of violence against the person looked after children. Percentage These figures have been drawn from administrative Region 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 IT systems, which, as with any large scale recording NorthEast3737414243system, are subject to possible errors with data entry Northwest 38 38 39 41 41 and processing and may be subject to change over time. Yorkshire 36 37 39 37 37 Period 2009-10 and Age 12-15 per 1,000 Age 16-17 per 1,000 Humberside YOT population population East 31 36 34 37 34 Midlands Barking and 0.48 3.02 Dagenham West 36 36 37 37 36 Midlands Barnet 0.11 1.09 Eastern 32 33 34 35 34 Barnsley 0.02 1.01 London 33 33 35 33 35 Bath and North 0.26 1.17 East Somerset South East 34 34 35 35 35 Bedfordshire 0.06 0.88 South West 33 33 34 34 36 Bexley 0.14 0.47 Wales 36 37 37 40 36 Birmingham 0.44 2.61 England 35 36 37 37 37 and Wales Blackburn with 0.16 2.28 1 The figures are based on counts of sentencing occasions where the Darwen primary offence related to violence against the person and where the Blackpool 0.38 3.47 offender had at least one previous conviction where the primary Blaenau, Gwent and 0.19 0.65 offence involved violence against the person. An offender may be Caerphilly counted more than once if he or she has been sentenced more than Bolton 0.16 1.42 once during the period. Bournemouth and 0.10 0.70 These figures have been derived from the data used Poole for table 6.1 of ‘Sentencing Statistics, England and Bracknell Forest 0.18 0.69 Wales, 2009’ which was published by the Ministry of Bradford 0.26 1.94 Justice on 21 October 2010. Criminal history statistics Brent 0.40 2.50 for 2010 will be published on 26 May 2011. Bridgend 0.31 1.90 These figures have been drawn from the police’s Brighton and Hove 0.11 1.81 administrative IT system, the police national computer, Bristol 0.46 2.82 which, as with any large scale recording system, is Bromley 0.20 0.77 subject to possible errors with data entry and processing. Buckinghamshire 0.03 0.51 The figures are provisional and subject to change as Bury 0.22 1.68 more information is recorded by the police. Calderdale 0.34 1.95 The Ministry of Justice holds data relating to England Cambridgeshire 0.06 0.75 and Wales. Information for Scotland and Northern Camden 0.08 1.99 Ireland are matters for the Scottish Executive and Northern Cardiff 0.28 3.15 Ireland Office respectively. Carmarthenshire 0.06 1.47 Ceredigion 0.00 0.27 Young Offenders: Children in Care Cheshire 0.06 1.02 Conwy and 0.13 0.93 Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Denbighshire (a) Justice what proportion of young people aged 12 Cornwall 0.04 0.61 to 15 and (b) 16 and over in each local authority area 211W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 212W

Period 2009-10 Period 2009-10 Age 12-15 per 1,000 Age 16-17 per 1,000 Age 12-15 per 1,000 Age 16-17 per 1,000 YOT population population YOT population population

Coventry 0.23 2.13 Newham 0.43 4.77 Croydon 0.47 2.73 Newport 0.23 1.44 Cumbria 0.08 1.11 Norfolk 0.13 0.66 Darlington 0.17 1.25 North East 0.33 1.33 Derby 0.73 3.75 Lincolnshire Derbyshire 0.07 0.67 North Lincolnshire 0.39 2.75 Devon 0.07 0.40 North Somerset 0.08 1.06 Doncaster 0.24 1.37 North Tyneside 0.22 1.21 Dorset 0.02 0.20 North Yorkshire 0.14 0.71 Dudley 0.02 0.87 Northamptonshire 0.08 1.31 Durham 0.04 0.93 Northumberland 0.04 0.52 Ealing 0.26 2.41 Nottingham 0.60 5.60 East Riding of 0.03 0.55 Nottinghamshire 0.13 0.83 Yorkshire Oldham 0.48 1.03 East Sussex 0.03 0.92 Oxfordshire 0.06 0.72 Enfield 0.15 1.67 Pembrokeshire 0.00 0.17 Essex 0.05 0.66 Peterborough 0.62 3.14 Flintshire 0.19 1.07 Plymouth 0.02 1.23 Gateshead 0.24 1.41 Powys 0.02 0.73 Gloucestershire 0.05 0.53 Reading 0.14 0.66 Greenwich 0.14 2.49 Redbridge 0.17 2.18 Gwynedd Mon 0.14 0.62 Rhondda Cynon 0.11 1.30 Hackney 0.89 5.80 Taff Halton and 0.20 1.31 Richmond-upon- 0.12 0.79 Warrington Thames Hammersmith and 0.72 3.76 Rochdale 0.42 1.59 Fulham Rotherham 0.20 1.57 Haringey 0.32 3.47 Salford 0.37 2.49 Harrow 0.22 0.63 Sandwell 0.28 1.88 Hartlepool 0.07 1.69 Sefton 0.06 0.72 Havering 0.10 0.75 Sheffield 0.28 2.84 Hertfordshire 0.05 0.54 Shropshire, Telford 0.05 0.73 Hillingdon 0.13 1.73 and Wrekin Hounslow 0.09 0.96 Slough 0.17 1.50 Islington 0.31 5.32 Solihull 0.07 0.89 Kensington and 0.24 3.94 Somerset 0.07 0.31 Chelsea South 0.00 0.24 Kent 0.11 0.88 Gloucestershire Kingston-upon-Hull 0.53 2.39 South Tees 0.29 1.55 Kingston-upon- 0.26 0.77 South Tyneside 0.10 0.77 Thames Southend-on-Sea 0.33 2.12 Kirklees 0.31 1.79 Southwark 0.70 6.54 Knowsley 0.47 1.92 St. Helens 0.04 2.16 Lambeth 0.70 7.53 Staffordshire 0.05 0.80 Lancashire 0.22 1.26 Stockport 0.11 0.77 Leeds 0.48 2.26 Stockton-on-Tees 0.16 1.43 Leicester City 0.31 2.80 Stoke-on-Trent 0.43 2.63 Leicestershire 0.04 0.37 Suffolk 0.11 0.67 Lewisham 0.50 3.72 Sunderland 0.08 0.96 Lincolnshire 0.06 0.83 Surrey 0.04 0.31 Liverpool 0.42 3.45 Sutton 0.00 0.61 Luton 0.03 1.01 Swansea 0.16 0.91 Manchester 0.53 5.86 Swindon 0.11 1.19 Medway 0.18 0.85 Tameside 0.10 1.22 Merthyr Tydfil 0.65 7.71 Thurrock 0.23 0.72 Merton 0.25 1.26 Torbay 0.00 0.98 Milton Keynes 0.12 0.90 Tower Hamlets and 0.16 3.83 Monmouthshire and 0.04 0.65 City of London Torfaen Trafford 0.16 2.22 Neath Port Talbot 0.02 1.08 Vale of Glamorgan 0.39 0.88 Newcastle-upon- 0.18 1.78 Wakefield 0.13 0.84 Tyne Walsall 0.15 1.31 213W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 214W

Period 2009-10 Coastal Areas: Access Age 12-15 per 1,000 Age 16-17 per 1,000 YOT population population Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Waltham Forest 0.46 2.42 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what recent Wandsworth 0.78 5.30 progress has been made on the implementation of the Warwickshire 0.12 0.43 coastal access provisions of the Marine and Coastal Wessex 0.13 1.22 Access Act 2009; [55585] West Berkshire 0.12 0.57 (2) what plans she has to implement the coastal West Sussex 0.09 0.60 access provisions of the Marine and Coastal Access Westminster 0.46 1.72 Act 2009 following the completion of implementation Wigan 0.14 0.92 of the planned sections in Dorset, Norfolk, Kent, Wiltshire 0.03 0.32 Somerset, Durham and Cumbria; [55586] Windsor and 0.15 0.49 (3) what her policy is on the maintenance of coastal Maidenhead paths. [55591] Wirral 0.14 1.25 Wokingham 0.00 0.14 Richard Benyon [holding answers 16 and 17 May 2011]: Wolverhampton 0.26 2.21 The Government plan to introduce the new right of Worcestershire and 0.08 0.75 coastal access under part 9 of the Marine and Coastal Herefordshire Access Act 2009 on a 30 km stretch of the English coast Wrexham 0.28 2.31 between Portland and Lulworth Cove in Dorset in York 0.02 2.15 time for the Olympic and Paralympic sailing events in July 2012. Annex A—Note on YOTs Natural England submitted its Weymouth Bay coastal Bournemouth and Poole (made up of Bournemouth LA and access report to the Secretary of State for Environment, Poole LA) Food and Rural Affairs, the right hon. Member for Cornwall (made up of Cornwall LA and Isles of Scilly LA) Meriden (Mrs Spelman), on 22 March 2011. There is now a period until 17 May 2011 for any objections to Halton and Warrington (made up of Halton LA and Warrington LA) the proposals in the report and representations to be made. Shropshire, Telford and Wrekin (made up of Shropshire LA and Telford and Wrekin LA) In due course we will be discussing with Natural South Tees (made up of Redcar LA, Cleveland LA, and England its priorities and timetable for implementation Middlesbrough LA) of the coastal access provisions beyond the initial coastal Tower Hamlets and City of London (made up of Tower stretches at Weymouth and in Cumbria, Durham, Kent, Hamlets LA and City of London LA) Norfolk and Somerset. Wessex (made up of Isle of Wight LA, Hampshire LA, Local highway authorities are responsible for the Southampton LA and Portsmouth LA) maintenance of all rights of way in conjunction with Worcestershire and Herefordshire (made up of Worcestershire landowners. LA and Herefordshire LA) Departmental Legal Costs

Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her Department paid in (a) damages, (b) claimant costs Biodiversity and (c) defendant costs in respect of all civil claims brought against her Department in which the claimant Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for was successful or the Department settled in each of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy is last three years. [54635] on the European Commission’s proposed 2010 Biodiversity Strategy. [56206] Richard Benyon: The resources needed to obtain the information in relation to each of the last three years Richard Benyon: The UK welcomes the recent publication would exceed the disproportionate cost threshold. of the Commission’s EU Biodiversity Strategy as an important contribution towards implementing the Floods: Insurance international commitments on biodiversity agreed in Nagoya last October. The Strategy, which includes six Mr Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, targets and 20 related actions, is also intended to help Food and Rural Affairs what models she has identified the EU and its member states meet the EU’s 2020 for insurance for areas of significant flood risk; what biodiversity target agreed in March 2010. assessment she has made of such models; and if she will The Hungarian presidency of the EU is aiming to make a statement. [55952] adopt Council conclusions on the Strategy at the June Environment Council. Richard Benyon: A working group that includes We will shortly publish a new England Biodiversity representatives from the Government, the Environment Strategy, following the publication of the Natural Agency, the insurance industry and other organisations Environment White Paper, which will set out how our is looking at a range of potential flood insurance models international commitments will be met in England. for the future. 215W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 216W

These include the role that specialist brokers can play Richard Benyon: The Environment Agency undertakes in helping people at high flood risk to access insurance, pollution prevention activities and has a role to investigate the potential role of local authorities, and various pooling and remediate pollution incidents. It also has powers to arrangements for flood risk. Further information will prevent or stop pollution and operates under the ’polluter be provided in the working group’s interim report, pays’ principle recovering its costs where possible. which is due to be published shortly. The Environment Agency has a specific duty to protect and enhance water quality in rivers and other water Mr Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, bodies in England and Wales. It is funded to undertake Food and Rural Affairs what recent assessment she has its duties partly by government grant in aid (GIA) and made of her Department’s compliance with the Statement partly through charges for Environmental permits for of Principles on the provision of flood insurance of water discharge activity (EPR charges). July 2008. [55994] The following table outlines all expenditure associated with activities aiming to ensure the cleanliness and Richard Benyon [holding answer 17 May 2011]: In quality of rivers and other water bodies continues to be July 2008 the Statement of Principles required the protected and maintained. Government to continue to make progress on a range of flood and coastal erosion issues. In relation to the £000 specific issues identified: Sources of funding We have incorporated the EU Floods Directive into law; Pollution The Environment Agency have streamlined arrangements for Total water incidents providing flood risk data to insurers; quality EPR cost spending charges recovery1 GIA/other The Environment Agency published a long-term investment strategy for flood and coastal erosion risk management; 2010-112 132,272 62,749 1,473 68,050 Through the Flood and Water Management Act we have 2009-10 130,768 64,424 1,345 64,999 established how flooding from surface water will be better 2008-09 141,550 64,761 1,059 75,730 managed in the future; 2007-08 141,053 65,671 689 74,693 We have completed a review of outcome measures and have 2006-07 148,442 65,073 957 82,412 consulted on reforms to the way capital budgets are allocated; Five year 694,085 322,678 5,523 365,884 We are committed to preventing unnecessary building in areas total of high flood risk and to giving a greater say to local communities 1 In addition to pollution incident costs recovery, a significant proportion through a faster and more democratically accountable planning of such incidents are funded from GIA. system within a framework of clear national priorities; and 2 As yet unaudited. We continue to explore the role that non-regulatory approaches In addition to the grant in aid that will be provided to such as resilience grants, funding mechanisms and information the Environment Agency this year, the Secretary of can have in encouraging flood resilience and better building State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the design. right hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), announced on 13 April 2011 that an additional £92 million would Land: Contamination be spent over the course of the spending review period (2011-15) by a range of organisations, to help deliver Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for additional improvements to our rivers, lakes and estuaries. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent representations she has received from bodies representing local authority regulators on her Department’s recently SCOTLAND proposed revision of the statutory guidance in respect Departmental Billing of the contaminated land regime. [55984] Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: DEFRA held a public consultation Scotland how many invoices his Department received in on proposed changes to the contaminated land statutory respect of goods or services supplied by tier 1 suppliers guidance from 21 December 2010 to 15 March 2011. between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and how many Over 50 responses were received from local authorities, of those invoices were not paid within the period of including Local Government Regulation (part of Local time specified in the Government’s Fair Payment guidance. Government Group), individual authorities, groups of [55859] authorities and other organisations whose membership includes local authority officers. The Secretary of State David Mundell: Between 1 May 2010 and 1 April also received a letter in response to the consultation 2011 the Scotland Office received 1,039 invoices. The from the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health. Scotland Office aims to pay invoices within five days of These responses are currently being considered alongside receipt. During this period, 1,025 invoices were paid other responses to the consultation, and a summary of within five days. 14 invoices were not paid within five responses will be published in due course. days. All payments were made within the 30 day contract obligation. Rivers Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what mechanism his Department has established Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for to ensure its payments are passed through the supply Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her chain to each tier in accordance with the last date for Department spent on cleaning rivers in the last five payment defined in the Government’s Fair Payment years. [55239] guidance. [55882] 217W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 218W

David Mundell: Other than minor purchases, the Trade Unions Scotland Office does not undertake direct procurement or tendering projects. It utilises existing service contracts Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland between suppliers and the Scottish Government or the how many staff of his Department are entitled to work Ministry of Justice. The Scotland Office follows the (a) full-time as trade union representatives and (b) principles of the Government’s Fair Payment guidance part-time on trade union activities; how many such in its dealings with direct suppliers. staff are paid more than £25,900 annually; and what the cost to the public purse of employing such staff on Departmental Mobile Phones such duties was in the latest period for which figures are available. [56448] Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what the name is of each contractor or supplier of (a) David Mundell: No staff work full-time or part-time mobile telephone and (b) mobile data services to his on trade union activities. Department. [56050]

David Mundell: The Scotland Office makes use of a Government framework contract with Vodafone for HOME DEPARTMENT mobile telephone and data services. Animal Experiments Departmental Taxis Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland Home Department what steps she is taking to ensure how much his Office has spent on private vehicle hire that all available non-animal methods in scientific for ministerial travel (a) in total and (b) for each research are implemented. [53687] Minister in his Department since 11 May 2010. [56112] Lynne Featherstone: Under the Animals (Scientific David Mundell: The Scotland Office spent £40,527 Procedures) Act 1986, the Home Office can only license on private vehicle hire for ministerial travel between the use of animals for scientific purposes where there is 11 May 2010 and 30 April 2011. The following table no non-animal alternative, and then only when both the shows the split by Minister. number of animals to be used and any expected suffering is minimised. This reflects the principles of the 3Rs—the Minister Cost (£) refinement of scientific procedures, the reduction of the number of animals used and their replacement with right hon. D. Alexander MP 750 other methods wherever possible. right hon. M. Moore MP 26,327 right hon. D. Mundell MP 13,450 To ensure that no relevant replacement, reduction or refinement measure has been overlooked, all applications are considered by the local ethical review processes in Devolution place in all user establishments designated under the 1986 Act. They are also assessed in detail by Home Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Office Inspectors, who are all either medical or veterinary Scotland what assessment he has made of the merits graduates. and demerits of the Calman Commission process; and The Government also encourages the development if he will make a statement. [56145] and use of alternatives and improvements in laboratory animal welfare through its support for the UK National David Mundell: The Government introduced the Scotland Centre for the Replacement, Refinement and Reduction Bill on 30 November 2010, in line with our programme of Animals in Research (NC3Rs) and European and for government commitment to implement the international 3Rs initiatives. recommendations of the Calman Commission. The coalition agreement includes a commitment to The Commission’s Final Report was the culmination work to reduce the use of animals in scientific research. of a thorough process that considered a wide range of We are working on a strategy to deliver this commitment views through a strong programme of stakeholder and I expect to make an announcement on this shortly. engagement. Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the Greater Manchester Home Department if she will bring forward proposals to reduce the 12-year period for ending the use of wild Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for caught primates for scientific research in the UK. Scotland whether his Department has made any payments [53721] to (a) the Manchester College, (b) Manchester College for Arts and Technology and (c) City College, Manchester Lynne Featherstone: Article 10 of European Directive since 1997. [55751] 2010/63 requires that animals of all species of non-human primate used in scientific procedures must be purpose David Mundell: The Scotland Office was established bred unless there is justification for the use of wild on 1 July 1999. Since that date no payments have been caught animals. The United Kingdom has operated a made to (a) the Manchester College, (b) Manchester similar policy since 1995 and has not authorised the College for Arts and Technology and (c) City College, first time use of wild caught primates for more than Manchester. 10 years. 219W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 220W

Article 10 also requires that from the dates set out in Entry Clearances: Married People Annex II to the Directive all non-human primates should be the offspring of animals bred in captivity or sourced Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for the from self sustaining colonies. Under Article 10, the Home Department how many applications for spouse European Commission must carry out a feasibility study and partner visas have been denied on the basis that by 10 November 2017 to confirm or amend the dates in they have not met the English language requirements Annex II. The United Kingdom contribution to the since 29 November 2010; and what proportion of the feasibility study will be considered at the appropriate total refusals for spouse and partner visas since that time when consulted by the Commission. date this group represents. [55986] Directive 2010/63/EU must be implemented by member states from 1 January 2013. Damian Green: This data is based on management information. It is provisional and subject to change. Community Safety Local Partnerships Period: from 29 November 2010 onwards Refusals (Not met English language requirements ) for spouse Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for the and partners—71 Home Department what assessment she has made of Total refusals—for spouse and partners—6,126 the adequacy of business representation on community safety partnerships. [55907] Immigrants

James Brokenshire: We expect community safety Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for the partnerships to engage and work with local people, Home Department what plans she has to address gaps including the business community, when developing in local data on migrant populations. [55985] their annual strategic assessment and agreeing their local priorities. Membership of partnerships, beyond Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply. the statutory responsible authorities, is determined locally The information requested falls within the responsibility and as such it is not possible to make an accurate of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority assessment of the adequacy of business representation. to reply. Departmental Mobile Phones Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated May 2011: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for the have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking what plans the Secretary of State for the Home Office has to Home Department what the name is of each contractor address gaps in local data on migrant populations. [55985] or supplier of (a) mobile telephone and (b) mobile ONS produces estimates of long-term international migrant data services to her Department. [56065] flows for each local authority. Over the last decade these have attracted extensive interest. The Migration Statistics Improvement Damian Green: The suppliers to the Home Department Programme (MSIP) work programme was initiated in April 2008, for the provision of (a) mobile telephones are Vodafone, with the purpose of improving population and migration statistics Orange and o2, and for (b) mobile data services, Vodafone. in line with recommendations made in the 2006 Interdepartmental Task Force on Migration Statistics and subsequent Parliamentary Driving Offences reviews. The programme is led by the National Statistician and the Office for National Statistics, working in partnership with the Department for Communities and Local Government, Home Mr Ruffley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Office, Department for Work and Pensions, Department of Health, Home Department how many drink driving offences Department for Children Schools and Families, Department for were recorded in each police force area in England and Business, Innovation and Skills, Her Majesty’s Treasury, devolved Wales in each year since 1997; and how many successful administrations and the Bank of England. prosecutions for these offences there were in each such Phase 1 of the MSIP ended in May 2010 and resulted in year. [53428] significant improvements to migration and population statistics at a Local Authority (LA) level. This work included: James Brokenshire: There were 93,973 breath tests in the development of an immigration model that uses a range of England and Wales in 2009 whose outcome was positive more timely administrative data and other sources to allocate immigration data to local authorities. This replaced the direct or refused, compared with 91,666 in 2008 and 97,590 in use of Census data for this purpose. This was a significant 2007. Data by police force area can be found on page 84, improvement as it meant that changes in distribution since the table 4.04 of the Home Office Statistical Bulletin “Police 2001 Census were taken into account Powers and Procedures 2009-10. The publication is the use of data from the Higher Education Statistics Authority, available in the Library of the House and at the weblink which for the first time includes student term time address, and provided below: been used to produce better estimates of student migration http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- a methodology has been introduced to produce an initial set of statistics/research-statistics/police-research/hosb0711/ short-term migration estimates at LA level; These were published Historical data, going back over the past decade can in a research report followed by a period of extensive user be found on page 83, table 4.01 of the same publication. consultation which has fed into the further development of these estimates Prosecutions are dealt with by the Ministry of Justice Phase 2 of the MSIP is now underway and will run until in their “Criminal Statistics” publication, copies of which March 2012. Phase 2 is concentrating on making greater and are available from the Library of the House and the better use of administrative data to produce further improvements weblink as follows: to migration and population estimates at LA level. This includes: http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/ undertaking reconciliation work to understand the gaps between criminal-justice/criminal-annual.htm administrative sources and population estimates 221W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 222W

distributing long-term migrants to LA level using proportions and their failure to comply with the documentation from administrative sources instead of the current modelling process, which can lengthen the period of time spent in approach immigration detention. developing estimates of short-term migration for local authorities We are working with international partners to return which will help to explain some of the gaps between the current population estimates and information contained in a people to their home country at the earliest opportunity range of administrative sources which include short-term migrants and will continue to tackle the delaying tactics used by (particularly workers and students) those who attempt to frustrate their removal. All publications from the Migration Statistics Improvement Every effort is made to ensure that a foreign prisoner’s Programme can be found at the following link: deportation coincides, as far as possible, with his or her http://www.ons.gov.uk/about-statistics/methodology-and- release from prison. Where sentence length allows, quality/imps/index.html deportation will be considered up to 18 months prior to the earliest point of removal. Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans she has to collect data Immigration: India on public opinion on migration following the discontinuation of the Citizenship Survey. [55989] Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: The Home Office currently has no Home Department pursuant to the answer of 18 March plans to commission public opinion research on migration. 2011, Official Report, column 683W,on entry clearances: India, which categories of natural person would be limited under the proposed EU-India Free Trade Immigrants: Detainees Agreement; whether a minimum salary would be required for those persons admitted for less than 12 months; and Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the what her estimate is of the number of persons likely to Home Department how many people who were detained be admitted for less than 12 months. [53292] for immigration purposes and then (a) deported and (b) released in the last six months of 2010 had been Damian Green [holding answer 3 May 2011]: The detained for more than (i) three months, (ii) six months, EU-India Free Trade Agreement is still under negotiation. (iii) one year and (iv) two years. [53113] No decision has been taken as to the categories of person that the Mode 4 elements may apply to though it Damian Green [holding answer 3 May 2011]: For the is likely to cover intra-company transferees, contractual purposes of this response, we have assumed “deported” service suppliers and independent professionals. The to mean deported or removed. The following table show conditions of entry and numbers involved are still under details of those leaving detention under immigration negotiations. powers in Immigration Removal Centres between 1 July and 31 December 2010, broken down by length of detention. Data showing those leaving detention under Shoplifting immigration powers in Her Majesty’s Prisons is not available. Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what discussions she has had with All Removed/Deported Released the Secretary of State for Justice on the number of penalty notices for disorder issued for shop theft which Total 8,410 4,660 remain outstanding; and if she will make a statement. [55829] Detention length: Three months to less 515 305 James Brokenshire: I have had no such discussions. than six months Six months to less than 225 135 The Ministry of Justice attend the National Retail 12 months Crime Steering Group, the national partnership to tackle 12 months to less than 55 65 retail crime. One aspect of its work is to ensure the 24 months effective use of existing sanctions and deterrents to 24 months or more 10 20 retail crime. Magistrates courts are responsible for collecting Notes: fines arising from unpaid penalty notices for disorder in 1. Figures rounded to the nearest 5. the same way as any other fine. The overall payment 2. Release and Removal totals are given ’per event’ not ’per individual’. rate for all financial penalties in the financial year to This means that individuals could be counted more than once. March 2011 was 93%. 3. The time period refers to the continuous period of detention immediately prior to release or removal. Please note these figures are based on internal management information and should be treated as provisional and subject to change. They have not been NORTHERN IRELAND quality assured under National Statistics protocols and may not agree with published figures. Inward Investment The majority of those detained under immigration powers for periods beyond 12 months are likely to have 11. David Rutley: To ask the Secretary of State for been former foreign national prisoners (FNPs). Despite Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with the the best efforts of the UK Border Agency, deportation United States Administration on inward investment of FNPs can be delayed by the use of judicial challenges into Northern Ireland. [55389] 223W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 224W

Mr Swire: The lead responsibility for attracting inward During this period 43% of invoices were paid within investment to Northern Ireland lies with the Executive, five working days, and 98% within 10 working days. All but we co-operate closely in support of their efforts. payments were made within the period specified by the The Secretary of State has had regular discussions on supplier. inward investment with representatives of the United States Administration, including Secretary Clinton when Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for he met her in Washington. Northern Ireland what mechanism his Department has established to ensure its payments are passed through Corporation Tax the supply chain to each tier in accordance with the last date for payment defined in the Government’s Fair 13. Mr Andrew Turner: To ask the Secretary of State Payment guidance. [55884] for Northern Ireland what his policy is on the powers of the Northern Ireland Assembly to set the rate of Mr Paterson: My Department uses a third party corporation tax in Northern Ireland. [55391] provider to process all financial transactions to suppliers. Where possible payments are made within five working Mr Paterson: A Government consultation on rebalancing days of receiving an invoice. the Northern Ireland economy runs until June 24, and includes a discussion of the potential benefits of devolving Departmental Mobile Phones to the Assembly the power to vary the corporation tax rate. Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern More effective competition with the low rate in the Ireland what the name is of each contractor or supplier Republic of Ireland could prompt a step-change in the of (a) mobile telephone and (b) mobile data services levels of private sector investment and employment to his Department. [56049] necessary to transform the Northern Ireland economy. Universal Credit Mr Paterson: For mobile telephones, the Northern Ireland Office uses the services of Vodafone, Orange and O2 14. Mark Durkan: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with Data services are provided by BT, Vodafone and O2. ministerial colleagues and Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive on the implications for Northern Ireland of the Government’s proposals for universal credit. [55392] TRANSPORT

Mr Swire: I have not been approached by Northern Cycleways Ireland ministerial colleagues to discuss universal credit but I am happy to engage in such a discussion. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department for Work and Pensions keeps in Transport (1) how much his Department has spent on close contact with the Department of Social Development maintaining cycle lanes in the last five years; [55324] on the subject of welfare reform at ministerial and official levels. (2) how much his Department has spent on promoting the use of cycle lanes in the last five years. Pat Finucane [55325]

15. Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does Northern Ireland when he plans to announce the outcome not provide funds specifically for maintenance of cycle of his consideration of whether to establish a public lanes, which are part of the highway and maintained as inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane; and if he will such. Local authorities determine their own spending make a statement. [55393] priorities and it is for them to decide how much to allocate to general road maintenance. Mr Paterson: I have not taken a decision on this issue. However, in 2010-11 the Department provided a grant I hope to do so shortly. of £1.5 million to Sustrans for maintenance of the National Cycle Network. Through the project 385 kilometres of Departmental Billing traffic-free (i.e. off road) sections of the National Cycle Network were upgraded, maintained or even built. Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department for Transport does not specifically Northern Ireland how many invoices his Department promote the use of cycle lanes as they are only one of received in respect of goods or services supplied by tier several measures which can improve conditions for cyclists. 1 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and how many of those invoices were not paid within the Between 2006-07 and 2010-11 the Department for period of time specified in the Government’s Fair Payment Transport, via Cycling England, provided funding for guidance. [55861] 17 Cycle Towns and one Cycle City aimed at encouraging more people to cycle more safely, more often. Infrastructure Mr Paterson: My Department received 9,115 invoices improvements, including cycle lanes, were an element of in the period 1 May 2010 to 1 April 2011. The Northern many programmes. More details of these are available Ireland Office aims to pay all invoices within five working at: days. http://www.dft.gov.uk/cyclingengland/ 225W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 226W

Departmental Mobile Phones exhibitions and roadshows. Of these, one is SCSPB2, two are SCSPB1, three are PB6, and three are PB4. Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport When further resources have been necessary, support what the name is of each contractor or supplier of (a) from other areas of the Department has been requested. mobile telephone and (b) mobile data services to his 45 HS2 Ltd employees attend roadshows as part of Department. [56051] their duties. The positions are a mixture of administrative and specialist posts (i.e. engineer) and are formed of Norman Baker: The information for the Department DfT secondees and directly employed HS2 Ltd staff. for Transport and its agencies is as follows: The make-up of these staff are identified in the following tables: Contractor or supplier of Contractor or supplier of DFT secondees to HS2 mobile telephone services mobile data services Band Number of employees DfT Vodafone T-Mobile (Central) SCSPB2 1 DVLA Vodafone and Orange Orange SCSPB1 2 HA Vodafone, Orange and O2 Vodafone PB7 1 DSA Vodafone Vodafone PB6 9 VOSA Orange Vodafone PB5 1 MCA Vodafone and Orange Vodafone and Orange PB4 3 VGA Vodafone Vodafone PB3 1 GCDA Vodafone Orange Directly employed HS2 staff Band Number of employees Driving Offences: Fines Senior Manager 2 Meg Munn: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Manager 11 how many people normally resident in EU countries Adviser A 4 other than the UK were liable to pay a speeding fine in Adviser B 1 England in each of the last five years. [51867] Assistant A 1 Assistant B 3 Mike Penning: In 2006, we estimated that around 3% Assistant C 4 to 4% of all speeding offences detected on camera were Executive member 1 by foreign-registered vehicles. However, we do not have data on the nationality of drivers of vehicles and we have no practical mechanism to count those foreign Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Secretary of State for licence drivers who are committing offences undetected Transport whether anyone acting on behalf of his or GB licence holders driving foreign registered vehicles. Department or of High Speed 2 Ltd approached any of the business leaders who wrote an open letter to the We are aware that the current systems mean that editor of the Financial Times in support of High foreign drivers are less likely to face the consequences of Speed 2 to encourage them to do so. [54016] dangerous road use. We are looking at ways of improving enforcement where we do not have details of the driver who committed the offence. We are also considering Mr Philip Hammond [holding answer 4 May 2011]: innovative approaches to fine collection by using third No permanent civil servants or employees of HS2 Ltd parties to improve enforcement. approached any of the individuals who signed the letter referred to. Great Western Railway: Franchises I and other Ministers in the Department regularly urge business and civic leaders who support high speed Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for rail proposals to make their views known publicly, as Transport what plans he has for the Great Western those who oppose high speed rail have done. franchise beyond 2013. [56141] Special advisers in the Department will have had follow up contact with some of these supporters of high Mrs Villiers: The specification for the new franchise, speed rail to make them aware of the opportunities to to commence in 2013, will be developed over the next make that support known. year in consultation with the railway industry and stakeholders. Tristram Hunt: To ask the Secretary of State for High Speed 2 Railway Line Transport whether he has any plans to revise the service assumptions for demand modelling in respect of the Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for High Speed 2 proposals. [54803] Transport what the (a) position and (b) payband is of each member of staff of (i) his Department and (ii) Mr Philip Hammond: An indicative service specification High Speed Two assigned to work on the High Speed has been produced by HS2 Ltd for the purposes of Two mobile exhibitions and roadshows. [52967] preparing an economic case for HS2. This is indicative only and should not be considered as binding on the Mr Philip Hammond: The Department for Transport eventual service pattern that operates on HS2. The has nine members of staff in the High Speed Rail policy service specification is likely to be further refined as the team, who spend some of their time working on the project progresses. 227W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 228W

HM Coastguard First registered First registered before 1946 after 1971 but Dr Wollaston: To ask the Secretary of State for manufactured Transport what definition of national resilience his before 1946 Department uses in relation to its proposals for the With a With a Make Licensed SORN Licensed SORN Total future operating model for HM Coastguard. [54505] Carbodies 1 — — — 1 Mike Penning: In relation to the proposals for a Case — — — 1 1 future operating model for HM Coastguard, national Chevrolet 14 89 6 25 134 resilience is the interoperability between all Coastguard Chrysler 44 44 4 12 104 Centres within a national network. This would enable Citroen 83 63 12 19 177 HM Coastguard to maintain the provision of its mandated Clark 1 — — — 1 operational responsibilities during specific threat periods, Commer 3 1 — — 4 intense loading or impairment to one or more centres as Daimler 264 59 43 16 382 a result of staff shortages or infrastructure impairment. Datsun — 1 — — 1 Dennis 5 — — — 5 Motor Vehicles: Registration Dodge 4 38 — 10 52 Douglas 1 1 — — 2 Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Enfield 1 — — — 1 how many motor cars of each make registered on or Fiat 113 43 15 10 181 prior to 1945 are recorded as still in existence by the Ford 911 965 141 257 2,274 Driver Vehicle Licensing Authority database. [55462] Fordson 2 1 1 — 4 Hillman 300 77 45 6 428 Mike Penning: The following table provides an estimate Humber 319 62 62 11 454 of the number of cars which were first registered (or are Jaguar 82 44 9 8 143 likely to have been first registered) before 1946 and were James 2 — — — 2 either licensed or had a Statutory Off Road Notification Jensen 6 1 1 2 10 (SORN) applied on 31 December 2010. Jordan — 1 — — 1 However, it is impossible to know exactly how many Lancia 126 19 9 6 160 pre-1946 cars are still registered for two reasons: Land Rover 1 — — — 1 (1) An unknown number of pre-1946 cars that were neither Leyland Cars 4 — — — 4 licensed nor had a SORN on the 31 December may still be in Lincoln 8 7 — 2 17 existence. Nothing is known about these vehicles. Marshall 1 — — — 1 (2) Before 1971 registration was carried out by local authorities. Maserati 1 3 — 1 5 From 1971, registration was carried out centrally. Any vehicle Matchless 1 — — — 1 that had been first registered before this date but was unlicensed at the point of the change will have received a new, post-1971, Mazda — 2 — — 2 date of first registration if and when the vehicle was licensed Mercedes 31 17 2 5 55 again. The only way to identify these vehicles is through the date Mercury — 2 — 1 3 of manufacture; this information is not available for all vehicles, MG 1,349 307 191 46 1,893 especially older ones. Morgan 239 104 41 16 400 Morris 3,214 603 624 106 4,547 First registered First registered before 1946 after 1971 but Norton 1 — — — 1 manufactured Oldsmobile 14 39 2 11 66 before 1946 Opel 14 3 2 2 21 With a With a Other British 7,068 2,824 1,224 600 11,716 Make Licensed SORN Licensed SORN Total Other 249 33 49 7 338 Countries AC 13 3 4 — 20 Other East 11 1—3 AC (Electric) 33 8 6 1 48 European AJS 13 — 3 — 16 Other Electric — 1 3 — 4 Albion 2 — 1 — 3 Other French 57 22 8 4 91 Alfa Romeo 53 38 5 9 105 Other German 10 1 1 — 12 Aston Martin 156 34 30 6 226 Other Italian 20 9 1 2 32 Austin/Austin 6,547 1,383 1,172 243 9,345 Other —2——2 Henley/Austin Japanese/Asian Morris Other Us/Aust/ 24 99 4 35 162 Bedford 9 4 — — 13 Can Bentley 935 314 138 54 1,441 Other West 51 1—7 BMW 11 17 1 6 35 European Bond 1 — — — 1 Other/ 21——3 Bristol (Blmc) 1 2 — — 3 Commercial/ BSA 100 28 15 7 150 Thorneycroft Bugatti 7 52 4 25 88 Peugeot 14 23 5 9 51 Buick 105 84 18 24 231 Plymouth 1 15 — 3 19 Cadillac 14 47 4 18 83 Pontiac 4 16 3 3 26 229W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 230W

Railways: Wales First registered First registered before 1946 after 1971 but manufactured Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for before 1946 Transport what recent discussions he has had with the With a With a Welsh Assembly Government on future rail franchise Make Licensed SORN Licensed SORN Total agreements involving Welsh and cross-border rail lines. Porsche — 1 — — 1 [56142] Raleigh 5 2 — 1 8 Mrs Villiers: As part of the Intercity West Coast Renault 71 39 12 12 134 Franchise Consultation, which ended on 21 April, Riley 1,490 200 167 17 1,874 departmental officials have met with officials from the Rolls Royce 1,374 600 184 95 2,253 Welsh Assembly Government and received a written Rover 565 114 82 17 778 response to the consultation, which will be included Saab — 1 — — 1 within the summary of the Stakeholder Briefing Document. Saxon 1 — — — 1 This summary of consultation responses will be published Singer 432 95 68 16 611 in due course. There have been no recent discussions Steyr 1 — — — 1 about other future rail franchises. Sunbeam 295 53 41 1 390 Talbot 164 60 25 7 256 Shipping Toyota 1 2 — — 3 Triumph 229 39 28 4 300 David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Vauxhall 414 111 64 21 610 Transport whether he plans to bring forward the Marine Volkswagen 2 22 — 6 30 Navigation Bill proposed by the previous administration. [55795] Volvo — 3 — — 3 Westfield — 1 — — 1 Mike Penning: We continue to look at opportunities Wolseley 595 111 83 25 814 for taking forward the measures that were contained in Yale — 1 — — 1 the draft Marine Navigation Bill. An example of this Make 11 1 1 1 14 approach includes the progress of implementing the Unknown Wreck Removal Convention by means of a private Total 28,265 9,114 4,666 1,852 43,897 member’s bill.

Railway Stations: Access COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Departmental Mobile Phones what progress his Department is making in ensuring that railway stations are more accessible. [55643] Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the name is Norman Baker: We are committed to improving access of each contractor or supplier of (a) mobile telephone to rail travel and have continued with the Access for All and (b) mobile data services to his Department. [56055] programme. This will provide accessible, step free routes to 148 priority stations by 2015 and is in addition to the Robert Neill: The suppliers of (a) mobile telephone upgrades being delivered through franchise commitments and (b) mobile data services to the Department are and major programmes of investment such as Crossrail Vodafone and Orange. and Thameslink. Good progress is being made with work complete at 51 stations and in progress on site The Department has placed a strict approvals process at 27. (only approval by directors) on ordering new handsets and commencing new contracts. Due to the restructuring In addition, we have introduced a new ’Medium Tier’ of the Department, many handsets are being returned fund for access improvements at intermediate sized either by those leaving or as a result of role changes stations, for which we are currently inviting applications where the devices are no longer needed. Any phones and will continue to set aside around £5 million per year given to staff will be from the existing DCLG mobile over the spending review period for train operators to phone estate. New devices will only be ordered where use for smaller access enhancements. telephones are broken or lost and where there are no replacements handsets held in stock. Railways: North West Faith Communities: Places of Worship

David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Alun Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what representations he has received from Communities and Local Government if he will bring transport groups in the North West on links between forward proposals to identify the requirements of faith west coast rail services and the channel tunnel; and if communities and places of worship within the National he will make a statement. [55797] Planning Policy Framework. [56155]

Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport has not Robert Neill [holding answer 17 May 2011]: All received any responses from Transport User Groups proposals for changes to the wording of planning policy regarding future links between the West Coast Main in England on the provision of community and social Line and the High Speed 1 line. infrastructure will receive careful consideration as we 231W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 232W continue to work to create the National Planning Policy such development. Should a landlord wish to convert a Framework. At this stage I cannot say what exactly will larger HMO to a family house then this will require a appear in the draft Framework, but we are committed planning application if the local authority considers to full public consultation in the summer and we will this would be a material change of use. welcome responses from faith communities as part of that public engagement. Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether he Greater Manchester plans to review the changes in permitted development rights for small scale houses in multiple occupation (C4 Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for use class); and if he will make a statement. [56017] Communities and Local Government what payments his Department and its agencies have made to (a) the Robert Neill: In October 2010, we introduced a permitted Manchester College, (b) Manchester College for Arts development right to allow changes of use from family and Technology and (c) City College, Manchester houses to small houses in multiple occupation to take since 1997; and for what purpose in each case. [55749] place without the need to submit planning applications. We are committed to reviewing the impact of those Robert Neill: The Department for Communities and legislative changes in 2013. Local Government and the former Office of the Deputy In areas where there is a need to control houses in Prime Minister were created following the machinery of multiple occupation, local authorities can use an Article government changes on 5 May 2006 and 29 May 2002 4 direction to remove these permitted development respectively. rights and require planning applications for such changes There are no records of any payments to the Manchester of use. This gives councils the flexibility to tackle problems College for Arts and Technology or the City College, where they occur without imposing red tape on the Manchester since May 2002. Details of payments to the wider rental market. Manchester College are given in the following table, for both the central Department and the Government offices. Payments were in relation to Human Resources training, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT predominantly in relation to Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development qualifications. Departmental Billing Details of payments prior to May 2002 could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many invoices £ his Department received in respect of goods or services Financial year Central Department Government offices supplied by tier 1 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and how many of those invoices were not 2002-04 0 0 paid within the period of time specified in the Government’s 2004-05 1,677 0 Fair Payment guidance. [55872] 2005-06 0 2,643 2006-07 0 2,678 John Penrose: The Department received 4106 invoices, 2007-08 29,498 13,259 between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011, in respect of 2008-09 15,977 14,102 goods or services provided by its tier 1 suppliers. Of 2009-10 5,800 16,850 these invoices 19 were not paid within the period of 2010-11 0 5,745 time specified in the Government’s Fair Payment guidance. Total 52,952 55,277 Departmental Mobile Phones Multiple Occupation Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what the name is of each David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for contractor or supplier of (a) mobile telephone and (b) Communities and Local Government what assistance mobile data services to his Department. [56056] his Department makes available to local authorities seeking to return houses in multiple occupation to John Penrose: The information is as follows: single units. [55793] (a) Vodafone and Nokia supply mobile telephone services and Grant Shapps: The overwhelming majority of Houses (b) Blackberry, Vodafone and O2 supply mobile data services in Multiple Occupation (HMOs) are privately owned— to the Department. particularly those which might be suitable for conversion Government Art Collection to family housing. It is for the owner of a privately rented HMO to decide whether to convert their property Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for back into a single unit suitable for a family. If the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport if he will assess the property is well maintained, well managed, and has any merits of maintaining spending on the Government Art necessary planning consents, then the local authority Collection at current levels. [53270] has no powers to seek a change of use. Generally, a change of use from a small HMO to a Mr Jeremy Hunt: The Government Art Collection’s family house does not require an application for planning (GAC) budget for 2010-11 was £540,000. This included permission unless there are local concerns about such £194,000 for capital acquisitions. I have now agreed the development and the local authority have made an GAC’s budget for the spending review period, which is Article 4 direction requiring planning applications for as follows: 233W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 234W

Hugh Robertson: Sport England currently funds £000 34 National Governing Bodies of Sport to establish and Total Revenue Capital develop links with local schools in order to increase the 2011-12 347 347 0 number of young people participating in community 2012-13 354 354 0 club-based sport. They will be providing £4.1 million 2013-14 478 374 114 per annum exchequer funding until 2012-13 to continue 2014-15 492 373 119 this work. In addition, the School Games and Change 4 Life In the first two years the GAC will not be making Sports clubs will support young people to make the acquisitions, but will be focussing instead on making transition between school and community based sports the collection more accessible to the public through five clubs. exhibitions at the Whitechapel Gallery and subsequent tour.

Olympic Games 2012: Smoking DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) what discussions he has Elections: Armed Forces had with (a) the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games and (b) the Secretary of State for Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister Health on making the London 2012 Olympics tobacco- (1) how many armed forces personnel serving (a) abroad free; [56010] and (b) in Afghanistan were registered to vote in (i) (2) what steps he is taking to ensure the London 2012 total and (ii) each parliamentary constituency in (A) the Olympics are tobacco free; whether the Olympic 2010 general election and (B) the 2011 referendum on athletes’ village will be a designated no smoking area; the voting system; [55972] and whether ticketed venues for the London 2012 (2) how many armed forces personnel serving (a) Olympics will be designated no smoking areas. [56042] abroad and (b) in Afghanistan (i) were registered for postal voting and (ii) voted using a postal ballot in (A) Hugh Robertson: Officials in the Department and the the 2010 general election and (B) the 2011 referendum Department of Health have discussed our aspiration on the voting system; [55973] for a tobacco free Games with the London 2012 Organising (3) how many armed forces personnel serving (a) Committee (LOCOG) on a number of occasions. abroad and (b) in Afghanistan (i) were registered for LOCOG has confirmed that it will not be appointing proxy voting and (ii) voted using a proxy in (A) the a tobacco sponsor and that tobacco and cigarettes will 2010 general election and (B) the 2011 referendum on not be sold at any of the Olympic or Paralympic venues. the voting system. [55974] Smoking will also be prohibited in all ticketed sports competition, venues for the games (for example the Mr Harper: No central record is kept of the number Olympic Stadium and the Velodrome), as well as the of armed forces personnel who registered and voted at athletes’ village. either the 2010 UK parliamentary election or the referendum on the voting system earlier this month. Sports: Schools Armed services personnel may register to vote as ordinary electors, as service electors or, where appropriate, as Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State overseas electors and therefore it is not possible to for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what plans he readily identify all of them. has to assess the outcomes of the School Olympics; and However, the Defence Analytical Services and Advice what criteria he will use to conduct that assessment. Survey conducted by the Ministry of Defence in 2009 [55652] showed that an estimated 69% of service personnel were registered to vote. The report of that survey is available Hugh Robertson: The outcomes of the School Games from the Library of the House. The latest survey is will be assessed in two ways. The School Games website currently being analysed, and a copy will be placed in will record the number of schools taking part; the the Library of the House upon completion by the number of sports being played; and the number of Minister for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans. young people taking part in intra and inter school Under targeted initiatives implemented for service competition. Secondly, Sport England will be carrying personnel who were in Afghanistan during the May out a full impact evaluation of the School Games over 2010 and 2011 polls, service voters were able to register four years. An independent research organisation will for a proxy or postal vote and specific processes were be commissioned to carry out the evaluation (managed put in place to support their participation. I understand by Sport England). Further details will be announced in that for the 2010 UK parliamentary election, 217 postal the autumn. votes were successfully returned and distributed out to returning officers. In addition to this 294 applications Sports: Young People to vote by proxy were received and forwarded to electoral registration officers. The corresponding figures for the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State referendum on the voting system in 2011 were 40 postal for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport if he will bring votes and 281 proxies. The use of proxies in such forward proposals to encourage young people to join circumstances is recommended by both the Electoral sports clubs. [55718] Commission and MoD. 235W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 236W

However, it is not possible to know the overall totals £68 million was allocated as grants to the Global of service personnel registered for postal or proxy votes Environment Facility and to bilateral country programmes. whilst based in Afghanistan as they could have signed There is an important role for both grants and loans in up outside the initiative—either as a service voter or as climate finance. Climate finance loans are offered on an ’ordinary’ elector. highly concessional terms and can maximise the total amounts of money available for developing countries. Electoral Register: Scotland The UK’s 2011 and 2012 Fast Start contributions will be drawn from the £2.9 billion International Climate Ann McKechin: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister Fund. We will report on this when it has been disbursed. which local authorities in Scotland participated in the data-matching pilot scheme aimed at increasing the number of people eligible to vote. [55651] Departmental Mobile Phones Mr Harper: Three local authorities in Scotland will be participating in the data matching pilot schemes—the Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy City of Edinburgh, East Lothian, Midlothian and West and Climate Change what the name is of each Lothian; the City of Glasgow and Renfrewshire and contractor or supplier of (a) mobile telephone and (b) East Renfrewshire and Inverclyde. mobile data services to his Department. [56060] I expect to make a full announcement on the data- matching pilots in June before the schemes are launched Gregory Barker: DECC’s supplier of (a) mobile in the summer. telephone, and (b) mobile data services is Vodafone Ltd.

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Energy Performance Certificates Carbon Reduction Commitment Energy Efficiency Scheme Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change if he will bring forward Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State legislative proposals for the roll-out of display energy for Energy and Climate Change what changes have certificates to commercial properties. [56199] been made to the Carbon Reduction Commitment levy in respect of energy which also covered by a Climate Change Agreement (CCA) where the CCA holder Gregory Barker: Better provision of energy usage purchases energy from a landlord since the October information will be key to delivering our ambition of 2010 comprehensive spending review. [55842] considerably higher levels of energy efficiency across the economy. However, we do not believe it appropriate Gregory Barker: No changes have been made to the to extend mandatory DECs to the private sector before CRC Energy Efficiency scheme requirements where a fully understanding how the potential benefits can be Climate Change Agreement (CCA) holder purchases achieved without placing undue burdens on business. energy from their landlord. It remains the policy intent We are continuing to explore the evidence. that there should be no double counting of energy use under CRC and CCAs. Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs Where a CCA facility draws their energy from their landlord, the energy use will be counted to establish the CRC qualification of the landlord and that landlord James Wharton: To ask the Secretary of State for will need to include the energy use from a tenant’s CCA Energy and Climate Change how much he plans to facilities as part of their once per phase footprint reporting spend on feed-in tariffs; and how much was planned obligations. However the landlord does not need to for expenditure on the scheme under the previous report energy use covered by a CCA facility in its administration. [55983] annual report and it does not need to purchase CRC allowances for this energy use. Gregory Barker: In last year’s spending review, the Climate Change: Developing Countries Government committed to improving the efficiency of the Feed-in Tariffs (FITs) scheme to deliver £40 million Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy of savings in 2014-15. This would be equivalent to and Climate Change how much of the Government’s approximately a 10% saving in 2014-15 compared with contribution of £1.5 billion to Fast Start finance for original projections, reducing costs to consumers to climate change from 2010 to 2012 will be provided as approximately £360 million (in nominal undiscounted prices). loans. [56497] Part of the aim of both the fast-track review and the Gregory Barker: Of the £568 million Fast Start finance comprehensive review of the FITs scheme being carried committed by the UK in 2010, £500 million was allocated out this year will be to consider how best to deliver the to the Climate Investment Funds (CIFs), the Forest savings committed to as part of the spending review Carbon Partnership Facility and the Congo Basin Forest while ensuring maximum deployment at or above the Fund as a capital grant used to make highly concessional levels anticipated in the FITs model inherited from the loans, and with a small proportion available as grants. previous administration. 237W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 238W

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office ensures that construction contracts between itself and al-Qaeda Tier 1 contractors include a provision for payment between the contractor and sub-contractor in accordance Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign with the prompt payment provisions. The standard and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he wording is used: has had with his US counterpart on al-Qaeda in the “Where the Contractor enters into a sub-contract with a Arabian Peninsula. [55170] supplier or contractor for the purpose of performing its obligations under the Contract, It shall ensure that a provision is included in such a sub-contract which requires payment to be made of all Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and sums due by the Contractor to the sub-contractor within a Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member specified period not exceeding 30 days from the receipt of a valid for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has regular discussions invoice.” with the US Secretary of State where they discuss a Israel: Terrorism range of issues including counter-terrorism. Senior officials across Government are in close contact Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign with their US counterparts on Yemen, including on and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what reports he has countering the threat from al-Qaeda in the Arabian received of terrorist incidents in Israel since January Peninsula. 2011; how many British citizens were (a) killed, (b) The Government’s engagement with the US, and seriously injured and (c) slightly injured in each incident; other international partners, goes wider than just counter- and if he will make a statement; [55248] terrorism and includes discussions on much needed (2) what recent discussions he has had with the Arab political and development reform in Yemen. League on terrorist incidents in Israel; and if he will make a statement. [55249] British Nationals Abroad: Sexual Offences Alistair Burt: Since January 2011, there have been Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for two terrorist incidents involving British citizens. On Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has 23 March 2011 a bomb exploded at a bus station in to ensure that consular staff receive adequate training West Jerusalem: one British national was killed and one on legislation for prosecuting travelling sex offenders. dual British-Israeli national was treated for shock. On 7 April 2011 an anti tank missile hit a school bus in [55924] Southern Israel injuring one dual British-Israeli national who later died of his injuries. Mr Lidington: Consular staff in our embassies around the world are there to support British nationals in The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth difficulty abroad. When Consular staff are notified of Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond the arrest of a British national for certain serious offences, (Yorks) (Mr Hague) has made clear our concerns about including child sex abuse, they are required to notify the recent violence in Gaza and southern Israel. other relevant UK authorities. This is made clear in our We have made clear to the Government of Israel that publication “Support for British nationals abroad: a while Israel has every right to protect its people, it is Guide” and is addressed in our Consular training courses also important that in so doing that it also shows for staff. restraint and makes every effort to avoid causing civilian casualties. Departmental Billing We continue to call on all parties to act with restraint and do all they can to prevent loss of innocent life, to Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for bring the perpetrators to justice and to reduce current Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many invoices tensions. We renew our calls on all sides to commit to his Department received in respect of goods or services peace talks. supplied by tier 1 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and We continue to have regular dialogue with the Israelis, 1 April 2011; and how many of those invoices were not Palestinians and the Arab League at both ministerial paid within the period of time specified in the Government’s and official level. A wide range of issues are discussed at Fair Payment guidance. [55866] these various meetings, including terrorist attacks and violence. Mr Lidington: Fair Payment guidance refers to construction Malaysia: Burma contracts only. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office does not hold a central record of all construction contracts Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign signed between posts in more than 170 countries and and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has local, tier 1 suppliers. Similarly on the number and had with his Malaysian counterpart on (a) the right of timing of invoices and payments to those suppliers, this refugees from Burma to live and work in Malaysia, (b) information is not held centrally and could be obtained attendance by children of such refugees in government only at disproportionate cost. schools and (c) conditions in immigration centres. [55717] Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what mechanism Mr Jeremy Browne [holding answer 17 May 2011]: his Department has established to ensure its payments Malaysia is not a state party to the convention and are passed through the supply chain to each tier in protocol relating to the status of refugees. Malaysia accordance with the last date for payment defined in therefore classifies all undocumented migrants as illegal the Government’s Fair Payment guidance. [55889] immigrants under their Immigration Act. 239W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 240W

Officials at our high commission in Kuala Lumpur For all new UK aid programmes approved from maintain contact with Malaysian officials at the Ministry January this year, the Government have also modified of Home Affairs, raising issues of refugees and migration. the way DFID programmes are designed so that they Our high commission staff are also in regular contact are based on rigorous evidence of what works and what with United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees maximises value for money and results, through the (UNHCR) in Kuala Lumpur, and other domestic and introduction of a Business Case model. All DFID international non-governmental organisations. projects are scored annually against expected results. In October 2010 the EU delegation discussed the Under the new Aid Transparency Guarantee we will rights of refugees from Burma to live and work in ensure Business Cases for all projects as well as annual Malaysia with the Malaysian Ministry of Home Affairs reviews and project completion reports are published during the visit of a UNHCR team. The issue of on the DFID website so they can be scrutinised by the refugees will be discussed at the negotiations of an British taxpayer. EU-Malaysia Partnership and Co-operation Agreement. The National Audit Office audits my Department’s accounts and scrutinises our systems for ensuring effective United Arab Emirates: AssetCo management and proper use of the development budget. I have also created a new Independent Commission for John Cryer: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Aid Impact, the first of its kind, which is able to and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has scrutinise any area of UK bilateral and multilateral aid made of the use of (a) military and (b) other equipment spending. sold to the government of United Arab Emirates by Departmental Billing AssetCo plc in recent actions in (i) Manama, Bahrain and (ii) other cities or towns in Bahrain; and if he will make a statement. [54888] Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how many invoices his Alistair Burt: We have seen no evidence that military Department received in respect of goods or services or other equipment sold by AssetCo plc has been used supplied by tier 1 suppliers between 1 May 2010 and in Bahrain. We have not seen Emirati forces on the 1 April 2011; and how many of those invoices were not streets in Bahrain and we have seen no evidence that paid within the period of time specified in the Government’s Gulf Co-operation forces have done anything other Fair Payment guidance. [55863] than safeguard installations. The Government take their arms export responsibilities very seriously, and operate Mr Duncan: The Department for International one of the most rigorous arms export control regimes in Development (DFID) is not able to disaggregate tier 1 the world. We do not export equipment where there is a suppliers invoice from other payment types without clear risk it could be used for internal repression. incurring a disproportionate cost. DFID UK made 19,244 payments between 1 May and 31 March 2011, of which 15,113 were paid within the period of time specified in the Government’s five day Prompt Payment Guidance. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what mechanism his Africa: Overseas Aid Department has established to ensure its payments are passed through the supply chain to each tier in accordance Hazel Blears: To ask the Secretary of State for with the last date for payment defined in the Government’s International Development what management and Fair Payment guidance. [55886] accounting mechanisms are in place to audit the utilisation of financial aid provided by his Department to (a) Mr Duncan: In accordance with Government’s five Sierra Leone, (b) Niger, (c) Liberia and (d) Mozambique day Prompt Payment Guidance, the Department for and delivered through the (i) World Bank, (ii) UN and International Development (DFID) aims to pay all lead (iii) African Development Bank. [55923] suppliers within five days of receiving a valid invoice. The Department for International Development (DFID) Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Government have rigorous contract under the Central Government Framework systems and procedures to ensure effective financial Arrangement for Managed Service Contracts in relation oversight of its funding and to ensure that aid achieves to construction. We are currently reviewing our terms maximum value for money and delivers results for its and conditions for construction contracts to ensure intended recipients. they align with central Government policy, including We subject all UK aid to rigorous financial auditing, the Government’s Fair Payment Guidance. monitoring and evaluation processes. For all grants provided by the Department for International Development (DFID), we require evidence about the use of funds from the partners’ own audited accounts, or other audited HEALTH arrangements as agreed. DFID requirements are built into the funding agreement which details; the annual Abortion audit requirements; the monitoring and review requirements; and the option for the Government to Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State take any reasonable and necessary steps to address the for Health what steps his Department is taking to situation in the event that there is any significant failure reduce the number of (a) abortions and (b) repeat in the commitments set out in the agreement. abortions. [55990] 241W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 242W

Anne Milton: Reducing the number of abortions and Mr Simon Burns: Where the contractor enters into a repeat abortions is very important. In 2009, the number sub-contract with a supplier or contractor for the purpose of abortions fell by 3% from 195,296 in 2008 to 189,100. of performing its obligations under the contract, it shall Contraception plays a vital role in preventing unintended ensure that a provision is included in such a sub-contract pregnancy and repeat abortions. Since 1 April 2009, any which requires payment to be made of all sums due by woman having an abortion on the national health service the contractor to the sub-contractor within a specified must be given advice about and supplies of contraception period not exceeding 30 days from the receipt of a valid before they leave the clinic. In addition, a specification invoice. for abortion services has been issued to support implementation of this requirement. Departmental Data Protection The Department invested £11.5 million in 2010-11 to improve access to contraception. Abortion should not Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for be seen in isolation, but in the context of wider public Health how many contracts his Department holds health issues as the public health White Paper ‘Healthy which allow contractors to store personal data of UK Lives, Healthy People: Our strategy for public health in citizens overseas; to which contracts this applies; in England’ highlights and the forthcoming sexual health which countries the data for each such contract is held; document to be published in autumn 2011 will make and how many people have their data stored overseas clear. under each such contract. [55741]

Mr Simon Burns: Neither the Department nor NHS Departmental Billing Connecting for Health hold any contracts which allow contractors to store personal data of United Kingdom citizens overseas. Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many invoices his Department received in respect of goods or services supplied by tier 1 suppliers Diseases: Health Services between 1 May 2010 and 1 April 2011; and how many of those invoices were not paid within the period of Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for time specified in the Government’s Fair Payment guidance. Health (1) whether he plans to implement the [55865] recommendation of the Chief Medical Officer in his 2009 annual report to appoint a national clinical director Mr Simon Burns: The quantity of invoices received for rare diseases; [55820] and the number not paid within 30 days are shown in (2) if he will publish an outcomes strategy for rare the following table. diseases; [55937] (3) whether he plans to publish a consultation document Total number of invoices on his proposed plan for rare diseases; [55938] Month Number of invoices paid over 30 days (4) what discussions he has had with external May 2010 16,491 218 stakeholders on the development of his proposed plan June 2010 17,530 163 for rare diseases. [55939] July 2010 17,330 103 August 16,122 47 Mr Simon Burns: We are not yet in a position to say 2010 how the recommendation of the former Chief Medical September 16,069 65 Officer regarding the appointment of a new National 2010 Clinical Director for Rare Diseases might fit with the October 14,848 58 new arrangements for specialised commissioning that 2010 are set out in the Health and Social Care Bill. The issue November 14,956 38 2010 of such an appointment is being considered as part of December 13,183 29 the design work for the NHS Commissioning Board. 2010 The Department is working with the devolved January 16,825 72 Administrations and key stakeholders to develop a plan 2011 for rare disease by 2013 in line with the European February 16,959 88 Council recommendation. Officials in the Department 2011 have held meetings with the devolved Administrations March 16,950 44 and several key stakeholders as part of the development 2011 of a plan for rare disease and will continue to engage Total 177,263 925 with key partners. Note: The Department does not differentiate between Tier 1 suppliers and The NHS Outcomes Framework sets out national other creditors. The figures in the table therefore reflect invoice outcomes goals. The NHS Commissioning Board would payments made to all commercial creditors. decide how best to deliver improvements on the ground and translate the national outcomes into outcomes and Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for indicators that are meaningful at local level in the Health what mechanism his Department has established Commissioning Outcomes Framework. It will be for to ensure its payments are passed through the supply the shadow NHS Commissioning Board to take forward chain to each tier in accordance with the last date for work on developing the Commissioning Outcomes payment defined in the Government’s Fair Payment Framework, with the support of the National Institute guidance. [55888] for Health and Clinical Excellence. 243W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 244W

Fluoride: Drinking Water Mr Simon Burns: Further to the answer given to my hon. Friend on 3 May 2011, Official Report, column 701W, Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for as of 12 May the Government have received 10 letters Health whether his Department has (a) commissioned from hon. Members representing Welsh constituencies and (b) evaluated research on whether to mandate on the proposed reforms to the health service in England. strategic health authorities to add fluoride to water The issues raised included competition, general practice supplies. [55763] commissioning, waiting times, the private income cap for national health service foundation trusts, service Anne Milton: Since 1964, the Department has failure and the implementation of reforms. commissioned a number of studies, which show that In my previous answer it was stated that we had dental decay is lower in areas in which the fluoride received 12 parliamentary questions from hon. Members content of the water supply has been adjusted to a level representing constituencies in Wales. I regret that this of one milligram per litre. No research has been conducted was an error and the correct number was three. We have on mandation since it has been the policy of successive received no further parliamentary questions since then governments that decisions on fluoridation should be from hon. Members representing Welsh constituencies. taken locally. The Health and Social Care Bill proposes that responsibility for consultations on proposals for Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for fluoridation schemes and the ascertainment of opinion Health when he plans to publish his proposed amendments should transfer to local authorities. to the Health and Social Care Bill. [56248]

Hospitals: North East Mr Simon Burns: Proposals for changes to the Health and Social Care Bill will follow the conclusion of the Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for listening exercise and the report of the NHS Future Health whether (a) he and (b) any other Minister in Forum. The report is expected in early June. his Department have visited a hospital in the North East since May 2010. [56249] Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what guidance he has issued to the NHS on Mr Simon Burns: Since May 2010 the Secretary of the effect of the pause in the progress of the Health and State for Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for Social Care Bill on the implementation of the proposed South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), has not visited changes set out in the Bill. [56250] any hospitals in the north-east. My noble Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary Mr Simon Burns: The Government are currently pausing, of State (Earl Howe) has visited Darlington Memorial listening and reflecting to improve plans regarding the Hospital. Health and Social Care Bill. Sir David Nicholson, the NHS chief executive, wrote to the national health service NHS: Managers on 13 April. The NHS chief executive addressed delivery of NHS services in 2011-12 and beyond, progress on modernisation to date and the effect of the Listening David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Exercise on NHS activity. Health what steps he is taking to ensure that NHS managers with previous experience in the private sector The NHS Chief Executive’s letter is available at: are recruited; what importance he places on experience www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ in external organisations for NHS managers; and if he documents/digitalasset/dh_126060.pdf will make a statement. [55798] and a copy has been placed in the Library.

Mr Simon Burns: There are no current initiatives Nurses: Manpower designed specifically to recruit people with previous experience in the private sector or external organisations, Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Health as national health service managers. how many specialist nurses for (a) breast cancer, (b) The NHS welcomes suitable employees from all haemophilia and (c) sickle cell and thalassaemia there backgrounds, and all NHS employers are expected to were in the latest period for which figures are available. ensure that their local recruitment policies are fair, [56008] transparent and free from discrimination. In addition, all NHS trusts and primary care trusts are expected to Anne Milton: The information is not collected centrally comply with the guidelines for the process for senior through the annual national health service work force appointments set out in a letter of 18 October 2006 census. The annual work force census does not separately from the NHS Chief Executive. Foundation trusts are identify specialist nurses. However, the 2010 Census of required to follow Monitor’s Code of Governance for Cancer Specialist Nurses in England shows that of the NHS Foundation Trusts, published in September 2006. 2,771.1 full-time equivalent (FTE) cancer specialist nurses, Copies have been placed in the Library. 523.32 FTE worked in breast cancer care.

NHS: Reorganisation Nurses: West Midlands

David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Health what recent representations he has received if he will take steps to protect nursing in the West Midlands from hon. Members representing Welsh constituencies from the reduction in nursing commissions planned by on proposed reforms to the NHS in England. [54615] the West Midlands strategic health authority. [56006] 245W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 246W

Anne Milton: The service level agreement between the Funding (£ million) Department and the strategic health authorities (SHAs) for the Multi-Professional Education and Training budget 2006-07 20.6 requires SHAs to base their education and training 2007-08 24.2 commissioning plans on the work force plans of providers. 2008-09 28.2 The West Midlands SHA has confirmed that they have 2009-10 38.6 finalised their plans based on work force planning 2010-11 47.8 information and following discussions with national health service organisations and higher education institutions providing health professional training programmes. Departmental officials will work with the SHA to review the situation and ensure that the planned EDUCATION level of commissions remains appropriate. Academies School Milk Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many schools have yet to agree a final Health what consideration the Early Years Strategy will balance with the local education authority on transferring take of the effect on children’s health of the provision to academy status. [55915] of free school milk in nurseries. [55839] Mr Gibb: There is no legal obligation for converting Sarah Teather: I have been asked to reply. schools or local authorities to notify the Department The Government believe that the early years are that they have agreed a balance on conversion to academy crucial to the future success and well-being of all children status. and will publish a statement of their vision for the early The Secretary of State can determine the level of years later this summer. Ensuring that children enjoy deficit or surplus if there is a dispute between the local good health, including through a properly balanced authority and the academy. So far the Secretary of State diet, is an important factor in securing a strong foundation has not exercised this power. for later life chances. The Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) sets out Academies: Berkshire standards for the provision of healthy, balanced and nutritious food and drink for children in child care up to age five. Dame Clare Tickell’s recent review of the Alok Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State for Education framework looked at this issue, informed by the report what recent assessment he has made of progress on the of the Advisory Panel for Food and Nutrition in Early academies programme in (a) Reading West constituency, Years. The Government have welcomed Dame Clare’s (b) Reading and (c) Berkshire. [55719] report and we intend to respond to it in full in the summer, and consult on improvements to the EYFS. Mr Gibb: To date in the Reading West constituency, The report was published on 30 March and is available Churchend Primary School opened as a converted academy at: on 1 February 2011 and The Avenue School has an www.education.gov.uk/tickellreview academy order and is aiming to convert on 1 September 2011. John Madejski Academy opened as a sponsored Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for academy on 1 September 2006. A further nine schools Health how many children in each local authority area have expressed an interest in becoming an academy. We received free milk in each of the last five financial years. do not release details of these schools at this early stage [55840] in their thinking about converting to Academy status. In the rest of Reading, Highdown School and Sixth Anne Milton: The Department does not collect Form Centre opened as a converted academy on information on how many children in each local authority 1 November 2010, Reading School and Kendrick School area receive a free drink of milk through the Nursery opened as converted academies on 1 February 2011. A Milk scheme. All children under five in day care for two further two schools have expressed an interest in becoming or more hours a day receive a daily drink of milk an academy. (one-third of a pint). It currently funds free milk for In West Berkshire, Kennet School in Thatcham opened approximately 1.5 million children under five years old as a converted academy on 1 April 2011 and Park in approximately 55,000 child care settings throughout House School and Sports College in Newbury opened Great Britain. as a converted academy on 1 May 2011. A further five schools have expressed an interest in becoming an Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for academy. Health how much funding his Department has allocated for the provision of free milk in schools and Full details of schools that have formally applied for nurseries in each of the last five financial years. [55841] academy status, as well as a list of academies that have opened in the academic year 2010/11 can be found on Anne Milton: The Department has allocated the funds the DFE academies website at as outlined in the following table for the provision of http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/ free milk in schools and nurseries in each of the last five typesofschools/academies/a0069811/schools-submitting- financial years. applications-and-academies-that-have-opened-in-201011 247W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 248W

Children: Day Care Disadvantaged: Milton Kenyes Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many children received free school meals Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Education in each school in the Milton Keynes local education how many childcare places for children under five years authority area in the latest period for which figures are were provided in each local authority area (a) in total available. [51929] and (b) as a full-time equivalent in (i) 1997, (ii) 2003 and (iii) 2009-10. [54121] Mr Gibb: Information on free school meal eligibility is shown in the following table. School level information, for all schools in England, Sarah Teather: This is a matter for Ofsted. The HM can be found at the following link: Chief Inspector, Christine Gilbert, has written to the http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000925/ hon. Member and a copy of her reply has been placed index.shtml in the House Libraries. under the heading ‘Publication’s Underlying Data’.

Maintained nursery, maintained primary1, state-funded secondary1,2, special schools3 and pupil referral units: Free school meal eligibility in Milton Keynes local authority4,5—As at January 2010 Number of pupils knowntobe Percentage known eligible for and to be eligible for Establishment claiming free and claiming free number School name School type Number on roll4,5 school meals4,5 school meals4,5

6905 Milton Keynes Academy Academy 1,055 242 22.9 2000 Wavendon Gate School Primary 411 14 3.4 2001 Merebrook Infant School Primary 174 16 9.2 2002 Portfields Combined School Primary 564 11 2.0 2003 Chestnuts Primary School Primary 263 41 15.6 2005 Brooksward School Primary 279 44 15.8 2006 Howe Park School Primary 174 17 9.8 2007 Long Meadow School Primary 423 35 8.3 2008 Monkston Primary School Primary 421 27 6.4 2009 Knowles Junior School Primary 177 47 26.6 2010 Knowles Infant School Primary 161 43 26.7 2011 Queen Eleanor Primary School Primary 167 100 59.9 2012 Christ the Sower Ecumenical Primary 353 23 6.5 Primary School (VA) 2015 Castlethorpe First School Primary 40 0 0.0 2016 Middleton Primary School Primary 423 23 5.4 2017 Broughton Fields Primary School Primary 405 69 17.0 2035 Emberton School Primary 28 5 17.9 2042 Hanslope Primary School Primary 219 14 6.4 2043 Haversham Village School Primary 37 1— 1— 2062 Oldbrook First School Primary 155 27 17.4 2067 Lavendon School Primary 91 5 5.5 2076 New Bradwell School Primary 293 65 22.2 2082 Olney Infant School Primary 238 14 5.9 2112 Russell Street School Primary 172 3 1.7 2121 Bushfield School Primary 287 58 20.2 2122 Wyvern School Primary 232 45 19.4 2133 Eaton Mill Primary School Primary 348 118 33.9 2185 Holne Chase Primary School Primary 277 26 9.4 2231 Water Hall Primary School Primary 259 116 44.8 2238 Barleyhurst Park Primary Primary 202 21 10.4 2247 Pepper Hill School Primary 123 43 35.0 2272 Greenleys Infant School Primary 136 58 42.6 2277 Simpson School Primary 211 70 33.2 2281 Olney Middle School Primary 365 26 7.1 2284’ Langland Community School Primary 263 116 44.1 2285 Falconhurst School ’ Primary 329 53 16.1 2294 Moorland Infant School Primary 81 39 48.1 2299 Southwood School Primary 178 60 33.7 2301 Stanton School Primary 223 73 32.7 2303 Great Linford Primary School Primary 269 50 18.6 2305 Greenleys Junior School Primary 201 74 36.8 2306 Wood End First School Primary 82 32 39.0 249W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 250W

Maintained nursery, maintained primary1, state-funded secondary1,2, special schools3 and pupil referral units: Free school meal eligibility in Milton Keynes local authority4,5—As at January 2010 Number of pupils knowntobe Percentage known eligible for and to be eligible for Establishment claiming free and claiming free number School name School type Number on roll4,5 school meals4,5 school meals4,5

2309 Bradwell Village School Primary 241 32 13.3 2310 Orchard School Primary 173 53 30.6 2313 Downs Barn School Primary 86 24 27.9 2314 Meadfurlong School Primary 262 53 20.2 2316 Germander Park School Primary 65 34 52.3 2319 Shepherdswell School Primary 99 32 32.3 2320 The Willows School and Early Primary 80 23 28.8 Years Centre 2322 Priory Common School Primary 162 29 17.9 2323 Giffard Park Primary School Primary 261 32 12.3 2324 Heelands School Primary 86 16 18.6 2325 Penwith School Primary 128 49 38.3 2326 Ashbrook School Primary 179 11 6.1 2327 Summerfield School Primary 326 55 16.9 2330 Willen Primary School Primary 371 18 4.9 2331 Heronsgate School Primary 385 29 7.5 2332 Loughton School Primary 470 44 9.4 2334 Holmwood School Primary 178 46- 25.8 2336 Caroline Haslett Primary School Primary 432 47 10.9 2337 Green Park School Primary 291 14 4.8 2346 Cedars Combined School Primary 250 21 8.4 2347 Glastonbury Thorn School Primary 254 21 8.3 2348 Abbeys Primary School Primary 273 75 27.5 2349 Heronshaw School Primary 170 14 8.2 2350 Kents Hill School Primary 167 26 15.6 2351 Drayton Park School Primary 218 85 39.0 2353 Emerson Valley School Primary 458 59 12,9 2506 Loughton Manor First School Primary 180 11 6.1 3000 Cold Harbour Church of England Primary 277 17 6.1 School 3003 Newton Blossomville Church of Primary 25 0 0.0 England School 3004 North Crawley C of E School Primary 36 0 0.0 3005 Sherington Church of England Primary 23 0 0.0 School 3006 Stoke Goldington Church of Primary 19 0 0.0 England School 3058 St Mary’s Wavendon C of E Primary 95 3 3.2 Primary 3066 St Andrew’s C of E Infant School Primary 38 0 0.0 3348 St Mary and St Giles Church of Primary 209 13 6.2 England Junior School 3369 St Thomas Aquinas Catholic Primary 283 6 2.1 Primary School 3376 Giles Brook Primary School Primary 416 15 3.6 3377 Bishop Parker Catholic School Primary 189 16 8.5 3378 St Monica’s Catholic Primary Primary 386 33 8.5 School 3379 St Mary Magdalene Catholic Primary 265 29 10.9 Primary School 3383 St Bernadette’s Catholic Primary Primary 305 18 5.9 School 3384 Bow Brickhill C of E VA Primary Primary 95 1— 1— School 3385 New Chapter School Primary 280 75 26.8 3388 Oxley Park Primary School Primary 430 20 4.7 3389 Tickford Park Primary School Primary 320 13 4.1 3392 Priory Rise School Primary 116 11 9.5 5207 Two Mile Ash School Primary 653 53 8.1 5208 Rickley Park Primary School Primary 400 69 17.3 251W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 252W

Maintained nursery, maintained primary1, state-funded secondary1,2, special schools3 and pupil referral units: Free school meal eligibility in Milton Keynes local authority4,5—As at January 2010 Number of pupils knowntobe Percentage known eligible for and to be eligible for Establishment claiming free and claiming free number School name School type Number on roll4,5 school meals4,5 school meals4,5

1105 Manor Road Resource Centre Pupil referral unit 57 22 38.6 1106 Fenny House—the Milton Keynes Pupil referral unit 84 4 4.8 Tuition Service 1107 Milton Keynes Primary Pupil Pupil referral unit 3 0 0.0 Referral Unit 4000 Walton High Secondary 1,070 75 7.0 4018 Ousedale School Secondary 1,649 50 3.0 4077 Leon School and Sports College Secondary 627 232 37.0 4097 Shenley Brook End School Secondary 1,203 76 6.3 4702 St Paul’s Catholic School Secondary 1,297 112 8.6 4703 Oakgrove School Secondary 874 98 11.2 4704 Hazeley School Secondary 910 60 6.6 5400 Stantonbury Campus Secondary 2,107 392 18.6 5405 Lord Grey School Secondary 1,209 122 10.1 5406 The Radcliffe School Secondary 817 204 25.0 5410 Denbigh School Secondary 1,012 78 7.7 7009 White Spire School Special 109 32 29.4 7015 Romans Field School Special 50 13 26.0 7021 The Walnuts School Special 115 13 11.3 7026 Slated Row School Special 133 45 33.8 7033 The Gatehouse School Special 39 13 33.3 7034 The Redway School Special 77 25 32.5 1— One or two pupils, or a percentage based on one or two pupils. 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies, however there are no city technology colleges in Milton Keynes local authority. 3 Includes maintained and non-maintained special schools, however there are no non-maintained special schools in Milton Keynes local authority. Excludes general hospital schools. 4 Includes sole and dual (main) registrations. Pupil referral units include pupils registered with other providers and further education colleges. 5 Includes pupils who have full time attendance and are aged 15 or under, or pupils who have part-time attendance and are aged between five and 15 (age as at 31 August 2009). Source: School Census

Drama: Finance Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what estimate his Department has made of the number Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State of applications for funding in academic year 2011-12 for Education how much funding he has allocated for under the proposed 16 to 19 bursary. [55038] the provision of dramatic arts in schools in 2011-12. [54955] Mr Gibb: We have estimated that around 12,000 young Mr Gibb [holding answer 12 May 2011]: Schools’ people may be eligible each academic year for a guaranteed baseline funding includes provision for them to deliver annual bursary of £1,200. Beyond this, the 16-19 Bursary a broad and balanced curriculum. No specific funding Fund is discretionary and decisions as to who will be allocation has been made on top of this for the provision supported will be made by schools, colleges and training of dramatic arts in schools in 2011-12. organisations; no central estimate has been made. We will monitor the introduction of the new arrangements, Education: Finance including how many young people receive support from the 16-19 Bursary Fund. Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether the £1,200 guaranteed bursary allocated from discretionary learner support funds for Free School Meals: Sunderland those in a vulnerable group is part of the same funding stream as the remainder of the 16 to 19 bursary fund. Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Education [53651] how many children in Sunderland received free school Mr Gibb [holding answer 12 May 2011]: Under our meals in the last five years. [55647] proposed arrangements for the 16-19 Bursary Fund there will be a single funding stream covering allocations Mr Gibb: Information on the number and percentage to schools, colleges and training providers. The funding of pupils known to be eligible for and claiming free will allow them to award discretionary bursaries and school meals in Sunderland for 2006 to 2010 is shown in guaranteed bursaries to those young people in vulnerable the following tables. The answer includes full time pupils groups. aged 0 to 15 and part time pupils aged five to 15. 253W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 254W

Maintained nursery, maintained primary1, state funded secondary1,2 and special schools3: free school meal eligibility4,5, as at January each year, Sunderland local authority Maintained nursery and maintained primary schools1 State-funded secondary schools1,2 Number of Number of pupils known to pupils known to be eligible for Percentage known be eligible for Percentage known and claiming to be eligible for and claiming to be eligible for free school and claiming free free school and claiming free Number on roll4,5 meals4,5 school meals Number on roll4,5 meals4,5 school meals

2006 21,891 4,874 22.3 18,242 2,748 15.1 2007 21,189 4,674 22.1 17,777 2,581 14.5 2008 20,701 4,920 23.8 17,087 2.992 17.5 2009 20,003 4,434 22.2 16,901 2,903 17.2 2010 19.822 4,852 24.5 16,478 3,234 19.6

Special schools3 Maintained nursery, maintained primary, state-funded secondary and special schools1,2,3 Number of Number of pupils known to Percentage known to pupils known to Percentage known to be eligible for be eligible for and be eligible for be eligible for and Number on and claiming free claiming free school and claiming free claiming free school roll4,5 school meals4,5 meals Number on roll4,5 school meals4,5 meals

2006 492 191 38.8 40,625 7,813 19.2 2007 481 175 36.4 39,447 7,430 18.8 2008 462 180 39.0 38,250 8.092 21.2 2009 450 168 37.3 37,354 7,505 20.1 2010 444 170 38.3 36,744 8,256 22.5 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies. 3 Includes maintained and non maintained special schools. Excludes general hospital schools. 4 Includes sole and dual (main) registrations. 5 Includes full-time pupils aged 0 to 15 and part-time pupils aged five to 15. Source: School Census

Free Schools: Teachers hold information regarding the actual number of maintained (state) schools and sixth form colleges offering Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Education the International Baccalaureate. whether teaching staff in free schools will be required to have qualified teacher status; and if he will make a Learning Disability: Parents statement. [54972] Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Mr Gibb: Innovation, diversity and flexibility are at what assistance his Department provides to parents the heart of the free schools policy. In that spirit we will with learning difficulties. [53149] not be setting overly prescriptive requirements in relation to qualifications, although a free school’s special educational needs co-ordinator and designated teacher for children Sarah Teather: The Government appreciates that some in care will still require Qualified Teacher Status. parents need extra help because they experience a multitude of problems, which can include learning difficulties. We will expect applications to demonstrate how each There is a great deal of evidence that parenting and free school’s governing body intends to guarantee the intensive family intervention services are cost effective highest quality of teaching and leadership in their school. and can provide much needed help for these families. In No school will be allowed to proceed unless its proposals December 2010, the Prime Minister announced a new for high quality teaching are soundly based. national campaign to support and help turn around the lives of all families with multiple problems. All parents International Baccalaureate of young children, including those with learning difficulties, are also able to use their local Sure Start Children’s Michael Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for Centre to gain access to early years services. Education how many (a) state schools and (b) sixth These activities are funded through the Early Intervention form colleges offer the International Baccalaureate. Grant of £2,222 million in 2011-12. The Government [53671] wants to retain the national network of Sure Start Children’s Centres with a core universal offer, while Mr Gibb: There are 42 maintained (state) schools and also ensuring they deliver proven early intervention 12 sixth form colleges offering the International programmes to support those families in greatest need. Baccalaureate. The grant is intended to fund universal programmes These figures have been based on students entered for and activities available to all children, young people and the International Baccalaureate in maintained (state) families, as well as specialist services where intensive schools and sixth form colleges for 2010. We do not support is needed. 255W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 256W

All parents, including those with learning difficulties, with the Impetus Trust, has been established to fund are able to access the online and telephone family bold and innovative approaches to raising the attainment support services funded by the Department. The online of these pupils. services have to meet the Department’s accessibility We have also introduced the pupil premium, which specifications and the telephone services use trained guarantees additional funding for schools with deprived staff who are able to support all service users effectively. children, and ensures that the poorest children, wherever they live, are able to receive the right support. Total Music: English Baccalaureate funding will be £625 million in 2011-12, and will rise to £2,5 billion a year by 2014-15. Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for The pupil premium—£430 per pupil—will be allocated Education if he will review the decision to exclude to schools, including those in Pendle, in June based on music from the English Baccalaureate in light of the the number of pupils known to be eligible for free conclusions and recommendations of the independent school meals (FSM) and those pupils who have been Henley Review of music education in England. [55604] looked after continuously for at least six months in each school. It will be for schools to decide how to spend Mr Gibb: The English Baccalaureate is not intended their pupil premium allocation in order to achieve the as a list of the only valuable or rigorous subjects. best results for their disadvantaged pupils. We recognise the importance of music which is why we commissioned Darren Henley’s review of music Pupils: Dyslexia education. We will respond to his recommendations with a new national plan for music education in the Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Education summer. how many people have been assessed as having dyslexia in each local education authority area in each of the last Physics: Teachers three years. [54230]

Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Sarah Teather: Information on pupils with dyslexia is what recent representations he has received on the number not available. of physics teachers in schools. [55588] A table showing the number of pupils with statements of special educational needs or at School Action Plus Mr Gibb [holding answer 16 May 2011]: We have whose primary need has been identified as specific routine discussions with representatives of the science, learning difficulty (SLD) by local authority area for technology, engineering and mathematics community 2008 to 2010 has been placed in the House Libraries. and other subject associations which help inform policy Pupils with dyslexia as their primary need are included development. We have also received letters recently in the SLD category. from both the Institute of Physics and the Royal Society This information has been published in the series of in which teacher recruitment has been raised. Raising Statistical First Releases entitled “Special Educational the number of specialist science teachers in schools is a Needs in England”: high priority for the Government and we have already 2010 data: confirmed that trainees starting postgraduate teacher training courses in physics will be offered the highest http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000939/ bursary rate of £9,000 in academic year 2011/12. index.shtml in tables 23 to 25; The Department will shortly publish a discussion document on the funding of initial teacher training, 2009 data: including financial incentives for trainees in physics, http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000852/ from academic year 2012/13. The document will provide index.shtml the opportunity for those who have an interest in, or are in tables 21 to 23; directly involved with, the training of teachers to provide 2008 data: comments on our proposals. http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000794/ Figures from the School Workforce Census published index.shtml by the Department on 20 April showed that in November in tables 20 to 22. 2010 the headcount of teachers teaching physics in all publicly funded secondary schools was 5,600. Of this School Leaving number, 68.6% held a relevant post A-level qualification. Andy Burnham: To ask the Secretary of State for Pupils: Disadvantaged Education what plans he has for the future of the September Guarantee in the comprehensive spending Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for review period. [54400] Education what steps he is taking to improve the educational achievement of disadvantaged children in Mr Gibb [holding answer 9 May 2011]: My noble (a) Pendle and (b) England. [55598] Friend, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Schools, wrote to all local authorities on 17 February to clarify Mr Gibb: In line with the Coalition Government’s that the process of offering 16 and 17-year-olds a suitable commitment to raising the attainment of disadvantaged place in education or training by the end of September, pupils in under-performing schools we have invested which has been known as the ‘September Guarantee’, £125 million in the Education Endowment Fund. This will continue. This will help to ensure that more young fund, administered by the Sutton Trust, in partnership people have the opportunity to continue their education 257W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 258W as we move towards full participation of 16 and 17-year-olds inadequate. The report also noted that “one of the by 2015. A copy of this letter is available on the successes reported this year is the effectiveness of many Department’s website at: [non-maintained] residential special schools, often www.education.gov.uk/offersofeducationandtraining outstanding at helping children achieve and enjoy what Data from local authorities shows that in 2009, 95.9% they do”. of 16-year-olds and 89.5% of 17-year-olds received an The Schools White Paper, ‘The Importance of Teaching’, offer of a place in education or training. In 2010, 96.6% and the Green Paper, ‘Support and aspiration: A new of 16-year-olds and 91.3% of 17-year-olds received an approach to special educational needs and disability’, offer of a place. set out a strong strategic role for local authorities acting as the champions for parents and families, vulnerable Schools: Admissions children, and educational excellence. For disabled children and those with SEN the Green Paper sees one of the Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for core features of the local authority role as working Education what steps he is taking to ensure that collaboratively with providers to commission a range of commissioners are able to assess the effectiveness of the high quality provision, and to identify and challenge placement of pupils in (a) non-maintained and (b) services that are letting down families. maintained special schools. [55540] Mr Andrew Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Sarah Teather: Local authorities place children with Education how many and what proportion of pupils statements of special educational needs (SEN) in non- there are in (a) primary, (b) secondary and (c) all maintained and maintained special schools. Local schools in each local education authority area. [55583] authorities are under a duty to arrange appropriate provision for such children so that their SEN are met and to review the statement at least annually to ensure Mr Gibb [holding answer 13 May 2011]: The requested that the provision continues to meet the child’s SEN. data is shown in the following table. Local authorities have Ofsted inspection reports available Information on pupil numbers by school type and to help them assess a special school’s overall effectiveness. local authority is published as part of the Statistical The Annual Report of Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector First Release ’Schools, Pupils and their Characteristics: 2009/10 found on assessment of overall effectiveness January 2010’, available at that 35% of maintained special schools were outstanding, http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000925/ 43% were good, 17% were satisfactory and 5% were index.shtml

Number and percentage of pupils by type of school1, 2, 3. As at January 2010. In England, by local authority area and region Maintained primary1 State-funded secondary1, 2 All schools4, 5 Percentage of Percentage of Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3

England5 4,093,715 50.8 3,252,135 40.3 8,064,300

North East5 202,870 51.5 169,215 43.0 393,780 Darlington 6,801 55.9 5,888 37.4 15,730 Durham 39,538 53.1 30,467 40.9 74,455 Gateshead 15,170 51.8 12,605 43.0 29,305 Hartlepool 8,665 57.2 6,234 41.1 15,155 Middlesbrough 13,661 60.8 8,269 36.8 22,475 Newcastle upon Tyne 19,237 47.0 15,978 39.0 40,955 North Tyneside 15,785 51.7 13,202 43.2 30,530 Northumberland 17,912 37.2 29,265 60.8 48,115 Redcar and Cleveland 12,434 56.2 9,366 42.3 22,140 South Tyneside 11,811 54.7 9,066 42.0 21,610 Stockton-on-Tees 17,414 56.1 11,340 36.5 31,045 Sunderland 22,440 53.1 17,537 41.5 42,260

North West5 575,700 53.2 433,975 40.1 1,082,195 Blackburn with Darwen 14,316 52.2 9,456 34.5 27,425 Blackpool 11,338 55.0 7,897 38.3 20,610 Bolton 25,138 52.3 18,910 39.4 48,030 Bury 16,154 53.9 11,117 37.1 29,970 Cheshire East 26,858 49.7 22,337 41.3 54,065 Cheshire West and Chester 24,982 48.4 21,656 42.0 51,600 Cumbria 37,484 50.0 33,576 44.8 74,975 Halton 9,971 54.6 7,536 41.3 18,260 Knowsley 14,223 64.1 7,497 33.8 22,205 Lancashire 89,941 52.8 69,324 40.7 170,400 Liverpool 35,665 51.3 30,766 44.2 69,535 259W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 260W

Number and percentage of pupils by type of school1, 2, 3. As at January 2010. In England, by local authority area and region Maintained primary1 State-funded secondary1, 2 All schools4, 5 Percentage of Percentage of Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3

Manchester 41,604 57.6 23,400 32.4 72,290 Oldham 23,499 56.9 15,918 38.6 41,285 Rochdale 19,307 58.2 12,695 38.3 33,150 Salford 19,080 56.9 10,946 32.6 33,550 Sefton 21,706 48.9 19,176 43.2 44,430 St Helens 14,620 55.5 10,661 40.4 26,365 Stockport 22,563 52.4 14,665 34.1 43,020 Tameside 19,747 56.9 14,307 41.3 34,675 Trafford 19,667 50.8 16,562 42.8 38,685 Warrington 17,267 55.6 13,318 42.9 31,075 Wigan 25,382 56.0 19,114 42.1 45,365 Wirral 25,190 49.2 23,142 45.2 51,240

Yorkshire and the Humber5 435,500 53.6 331,175 40.8 811,885 Barnsley 19,228 58.9 12,920 39.6 32,645 Bradford 53,648 57.3 33,952 36.3 93,570 Calderdale 18,734 52.2 15,391 42.9 35,880 Doncaster 25,896 54.4 20,493 43.0 47,620 East Riding of Yorkshire 24,476 49.1 22,630 45.4 49,870 Kingston upon Hull, City of 21,012 57.3 13,696 37.3 36,700 Kirklees 35,923 55.2 25,872 39.8 65,025 Leeds 61,545 54.3 45,732 40.3 113,375 North East Lincolnshire 13,390 56.2 9,591 40.3 23,810 North Lincolnshire 13,598 56.9 9,932 41.6 23,900 North Yorkshire 42,761 47.3 40,249 44.5 90,445 Rotherham 22,671 52.4 19,374 44.8 43,240 Sheffield 41,770 54.7 30,392 39.8 76,325 Wakefield 27,911 51.9 21,019 39.0 53,630 York 12,936 50.4 9,931 38.7 25,655

East Midlands5 349,885 51.0 292,555 42.7 685,800 Derby 21,551 53.6 16,262 40.4 40,230 Derbyshire 58,830 51.9 48,390 42.7 113,450 Leicester 28,099 57.2 17,933 36.5 49,085 Leicestershire 46,950 47.0 45,506 45.5 99,950 Lincolnshire 50,610 47.9 48,250 45.7 105,605 Northamptonshire 55,686 50.0 47,788 42.9 111,420 Nottingham 23,177 55.5 14,733 35.3 41,785 Nottinghamshire 62,442 53.3 51,321 43.8 117,235 Rutland 2,542 36.1 2,372 33.7 7,040

West Midlands5 461,070 52.2 360,475 40.8 883,975 Birmingham 102,093 55.2 69,082 37.3 185,080 Coventry 27,599 53.6 19,878 38.6 51,465 Dudley 26,792 56.3 19,694 41.4 47,590 Herefordshire 12,382 50.6 10,058 41.1 24,480 Sandwell 30,280 59.3 20,326 39.8 51,075 Shropshire 20,839 48.0 16,832 38.8 43,370 Solihull 19,183 49.5 17,020 43.9 38,785 Staffordshire 60,940 49.1 56,279 45.3 124,195 Stoke-on-Trent 21,003 59.8 13,105 37.3 35,105 Telford and Wrekin 14,043 51.2 11,823 43.1 27,450 Walsall 25,716 52.5 20,721 42.3 48,940 Warwickshire 39,929 49.1 33,602 41.3 81,275 Wolverhampton 21,959 54.6 15,298 38.0 40,235 Worcestershire 38,303 45.1 36,755 43.3 84,925

East of England5 431,910 43.1 386,960 43.0 898,860 Bedford 9,288 31.2 14,872 50.0 29,725 261W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 262W

Number and percentage of pupils by type of school1, 2, 3. As at January 2010. In England, by local authority area and region Maintained primary1 State-funded secondary1, 2 All schools4, 5 Percentage of Percentage of Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3

Central Bedfordshire 15,789 40.3 22,085 56.4 39,155 Cambridgeshire 43,932 50.5 32,373 37.2 87,050 Essex 104,289 50.2 89,028 42.9 207,600 Hertfordshire 92,917 46.6 80,327 40.3 199,235 Luton 19,161 57.1 12,294 36.6 33,580 Norfolk 58,632 50.6 49,500 42.7 115,930 Peterborough 15,795 52.7 13,177 44.0 29,970 Southend-on-Sea 13,438 47.7 13,000 46.2 28,155 Suffolk 44,635 42.4 51,422 48.9 105,180 Thurrock 14,032 60.3 3,880 38.1 23,280

London5 644,625 51.5 451,055 36.1 1,251,135

Inner London5 232,100 51.6 140,330 31.2 449,800 Camden 11,489 39.2 9,892 33.8 29,290 City of London 233 10.3 6— 6— 2,260 Hackney 18,074 53.1 8,551 25.1 34,060 Hammersmith and Fulham 9,940 41.5 7,051 29.4 23,960 Haringey 21,952 56.8 13,205 34.2 38,665 Islington 13,313 59.7 7,913 34.2 23,145 Kensington and Chelsea 7,046 30.5 3,596 15.5 23,135 Lambeth 20,848 62.3 9,747 29.1 33,490 Lewisham 22,040 56.9 14,065 36.3 38,715 Newham 31,984 61.3 17,970 34.4 52,215 Southwark 22,380 53.3 13,107 31.2 41,970 Tower Hamlets 23,212 56.9 14,783 36.2 40,795 Wandsworth 17,815 44.9 11,494 29.0 39,700 Westminster 11,272 39.7 8,958 31.5 28,395

Outer London5 412,530 51.5 310,720 38.8 801,335 Barking and Dagenham 20,144 59.9 13,013 38.7 33,630 Barnet 27,169 48.3 21,516 38.2 56,280 Bexley 20,259 49.1 19,943 48.3 41,290 Brent 24,247 53.7 17,973 39.8 45,190 Bromley 23,706 46.2 22,638 44.1 51,280 Croydon 29,345 49.9 21,032 35.8 58,765 Ealing 27,771 53.6 17,865 34.5 51,835 Enfield 28,679 54.2 22,235 42.0 52,905 Greenwich 21,752 53.8 14,429 35.7 40,455 Harrow 19,793 56.3 9,967 28.4 35,125 Havering 19,228 51.9 16,655 44.9 37,055 Hillingdon 25,339 52.4 18,534 38.3 48,365 Hounslow 19,646 51.8 16,561 43.7 37,930 Kingston upon Thames 12,153 46.4 9,960 38.0 26,200 Merton 16,133 56.1 8,553 29.8 28,740 Redbridge 26,200 50.0 21,624 41.3 52,390 Richmond upon Thames 13,882 46.1 6,649 22.1 30,120 Sutton 14,886 44.0 16,775 49.5 33,855 Waltham Forest 22,196 55.6 14,799 37.1 39,920

South East5 625,470 48.1 504,930 38.8 1,300,695 Bracknell Forest 8,903 48.2 6,330 34.3 18,450 Brighton and Hove 17,340 49.3 12,160 34.6 35,135 Buckinghamshire 39,859 47.3 34,724 41.2 84,345 East Sussex 34,898 49.7 27,418 39.0 70,260 Hampshire 94,440 51.5 69,678 38.0 183,475 Isle of Wight 6,293 33.3 11,436 60.5 18,905 Kent 108,669 47.1 99,329 43.1 230,570 Medway 22,196 50.9 19,292 44.2 43,620 263W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 264W

Number and percentage of pupils by type of school1, 2, 3. As at January 2010. In England, by local authority area and region Maintained primary1 State-funded secondary1, 2 All schools4, 5 Percentage of Percentage of Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3 pupils Number of pupils3

Milton Keynes 21,884 53.8 16,674 41.0 40,660 Oxfordshire 47,668 47.2 35,785 35.4 101,070 Portsmouth 13,929 52.0 8,956 33.4 26,780 Reading 10,930 52.3 6,345 30.4 20,890 Slough 12,860 52.6 9,958 40.8 24,435 Southampton 16,152 56.3 10,314 35.9 28,710 Surrey 79,501 44.4 59,584 33.3 179,125 West Berkshire 12,344 43.3 12,067 42.4 28,480 West Sussex 56,398 49.2 44,587 38.9 114,665 Windsor and Maidenhead 8,748 34.9 10,123 40.4 25,040 Wokingham 12,457 47.8 10,170 39.0 26,080

South West5 366,685 48.5 321,800 42.6 755,980 Bath and North East 11,839 40.5 12,518 42.8 29,250 Somerset Bournemouth 10,246 47.2 9,742 44.8 21,730 Bristol, City of 29,430 53.5 17,079 31.1 54,980 Cornwall 37,462 51.7 31,859 43.9 72,525 Devon 51,855 50.0 42,628 41.1 103,770 Dorset 23,753 39.7 29,697 49.6 59,885 Gloucestershire 41,593 45.9 39,710 43.8 90,685 Isles of Scilly 275 100.0 6— 6—275 North Somerset 15,245 52.0 12,749 43.5 29,330 Plymouth 18,579 48.3 17,894 46.5 38,450 Poole 10,135 51.6 8,296 42.2 19,640 Somerset 35,387 46.3 31,245 40.9 76,435 South Gloucestershire 20,847 51.9 18,376 45.8 40,130 Swindon 16,355 55.7 12,388 42.2 29,345 Torbay 9,532 50.0 8,582 45.0 19,075 Wiltshire 34,151 48.5 29,037 41.2 70,485 1 Includes middle schools as deemed. 2 Includes city technology colleges and academies. 3 Excludes dual registrations. In Pupil Referral Units, also includes pupils registered with other providers and further education colleges. 4 Includes maintained and direct grant nursery schools, maintained primary and secondary schools, city technology colleges, academies, maintained and non-maintained special schools, pupil referral units and independent schools. 5 National and regional totals and totals across school categories have been rounded to the nearest 5. There may be discrepancies between the sum of constituent items and totals as shown. 6 Not applicable, no schools of this type. Source: School Census

Schools: Coventry Schools: Standards

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Jackie Doyle-Price: To ask the Secretary of State for for Education how many children in Coventry are being Education with reference to his letter of 10 March 2011 taught in temporary classrooms. [54952] to local education authorities, how many local authorities have submitted plans to raise the performance of schools Mr Gibb [holding answer 12 May 2011]: Local above minimum standards. [55916] authorities are not asked to report on the number of children being taught in temporary classrooms, and this Mr Gibb: Of the 152 local authorities in England, information is not held by the Department. 147 have submitted plans to raise the performance of their maintained schools above the floor standards. The Schools: Nurses remaining five local authorities do not have schools below the floor standards and, therefore, did not need to submit a plan. Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Education which (a) primary and (b) secondary schools in Walsall South constituency employed a school nurse in the Special Educational Needs latest period for which figures are available. [55009] Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gibb [holding answer 11 May 2011]: Neither the Education pursuant to the contribution of the Minister Department for Education, nor the Department of of State for Children and Families of 30 March 2011, Health, collects this information. Official Report, column 92WH, on children with 265W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 266W special educational needs, what mechanisms he plans established the National Resource Centre for Supplementary to put in place to ensure (a) (i) planning, (ii) Education in 2006 to support their development. Funding consistency and (iii) quality of local provision and (b) was provided by both parties on the understanding continuation of shared services for schools, including that the centre would become financially self-sustaining training of the schools workforce by speech and from 2012. language therapists under his proposals that speech and language therapy services may be provided for Teachers: Manpower under personal budgets. [53322] Andy Burnham: To ask the Secretary of State for Sarah Teather: The Green Paper on special educational Education what estimate he has made of the likely needs and disability, “Support and aspiration; A new number of teaching posts in England in (a) 2011-12, approach to special educational needs and disability”, (b) 2012-13 and (c) 2013-14. [53115] sets out how personal budgets could be used to enhance the control parents have over the support services they receive for their child. We are piloting the personal Mr Gibb [holding answer 3 May 2011]: Based on the budget approach to ensure that local authorities properly school funding settlement for 2011-15, and assuming understand how they and their partners should commission current spending and salary patterns remain constant, services to ensure all children can access high quality our estimates are: provision, whether or not their parents take up the option of a personal budget The pilots will look at how Number (full-time equivalents) we can best ensure effective commissioning and high 2011 459,700 quality services in the new system. 2012 461,900 2013 465,100 Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2014 467,000 Education what provision he expects non-maintained special schools to make for children with special These figures are an estimate to inform the Department’s educational needs or disabilities; and if he will make a planning. The number of teachers that each school statement. [55153] employs in future years will, as now, be a matter for them to decide, according to local needs and subject to Sarah Teather: Non-maintained special schools (NMSS) statutory requirements on class sizes where appropriate. provide an important contribution to the range of provision available for pupils with special educational needs (SEN), Teachers: Merseyside especially for those pupils with the most complex and severe needs. The majority of pupils in NMSS are Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for placed by local authorities, who are responsible for an Education how many unfilled vacancies there are for individual pupil’s statement of SEN. It is for the local school teachers in Merseyside. [55454] authority to ensure that the provision made by the school continues to be appropriate to meet the needs of Mr Gibb: Latest figures from the November 2010 an individual pupil as set out in their statement. School Workforce Census show there were six unfilled Sports: Clubs teacher vacancies in the former Merseyside metropolitan district area in November 2010. A vacancy is defined as an advertised post for a Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State full-time permanent appointment, or an appointment for Education what recent assessment he has made of of at least a one term’s duration, and includes posts the role of sports clubs in the delivery of physical being filled by a teacher with a contract of less than one education. [55654] term.

Tim Loughton: It would be for head teachers’ to Teachers: Training decide on the extent to which they involve sports clubs in the delivery of physical education in their schools. The Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), what recent representations he has received on the proposals has made no recent assessment of the extent to which in his Department’s Schools White Paper to trial and they do so. evaluate assessments of aptitude, personality and resilience as part of the candidate selection process for teacher Supplementary Schools training. [55564]

Mr Gibb: We have regular discussions with representatives Angie Bray: To ask the Secretary of State for Education from within the teacher training sector to discuss a what plans he has for future support for supplementary range of aspects of teacher training policy. We are schools. [55036] currently considering the detail of the implementation of our teacher training reforms set out in the White Mr Gibb: We recognise the contribution that Paper, including the proposals on assessments of aptitude, supplementary schools can play in providing out-of-hours personality and resilience. We intend to publish shortly educational opportunities for children. In partnership for discussion an initial teacher training strategy document with the Paul Hamlyn Foundation, the Department with further detail. 267W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 268W

Teachers: West Midlands Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer for Education what estimate he has made of the likely what assessment he has made of the adequacy of the number of teaching posts in the West Midlands in information held by his Department to be used to 2011-12. [54953] calculate compensation to be paid to Equitable Life policyholders; and what method is to be used to calculate Mr Gibb [holding answer 12 May 2011]: The such compensation. [56122] Department has made no such estimate. The number of Mr Hoban: The data that HM Treasury’s actuaries teachers that each school in the West Midlands employs have used to calculate payments have come from Equitable during 2011-12 will, as now, be a matter for them to Life’s policyholder data. The methodology for calculating decide, according to local needs and subject to statutory payments can be found in Annex A to the Equitable requirements on class sizes where appropriate. Life Payment Scheme design document that was laid before Parliament on 16 May 2011. Teenage Pregnancy Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for what assessment he has made of the implications for the Education pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member income tax liabilities of Equitable Life policyholders of for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) the receipt of compensation from the public purse in of 17 March 2011, Official Report, column 614W, on relation to such policies. [56124] the teenage pregnancy scheme: finance, at what point after conception the term pregnancy applies in respect Mr Hoban: The Chancellor announced at the spending of the scheme. [55637] review on 20 October 2010 that authorised payments made through the Equitable Life Payment Scheme will not affect recipients’ UK income tax liabilities. Sarah Teather [holding answer 13 May 2011]: Teenage pregnancy is monitored using conception statistics published Financial Services: Qualifications by the Office for National Statistics (ONS). All conceptions to under-18s that result in either one or more live or still Jason McCartney: To ask the Chancellor of the births, or a legal abortion under the Abortion Act 1967, Exchequer (1) what the pass rate for diploma examinations are included in the under-18 conception statistics. sat by independent financial advisers has been since Conception statistics are produced to high professional their introduction; [55910] standards and released according to the arrangements (2) what the cost of sitting diploma examinations is approved by the UK Statistics Authority. Conception for independent financial advisers; [55911] statistics are compiled by ONS by combining information from birth registrations processed by ONS and abortion (3) how many independent financial advisers have sat notifications from the Department of Health. the new diploma course examinations since their introduction. [55912]

West London Free School Mr Hoban: The Financial Services Authority’s (FSA) professionalism requirements, as part of the Retail Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Distribution Review (RDR), require all retail investment when he expects to publish the funding agreement for advisers to meet a minimum qualification standard. the West London Free School. [55444] The FSA’s website provides information on the different types of qualifications which meet the required level: Mr Gibb [holding answer 13 May 2011]: The funding http://www.fsa.gov.uk/smallfirms/your_firm_type/financial/ agreement for the West London Free School will be rdr/rdr.shtml published around the time that the school opens. A range of providers offer these qualifications. Pass rates for such examinations are commercially sensitive to qualification providers and, as such, are not publicly available. Out of the number of students sitting TREASURY such examinations, the number of those that are independent financial advisers is not tracked by qualification Departmental Data Protection providers. However, research carried out by NMG for the FSA in 2010 showed that over 48% of ail investment advisers had already attained an appropriate qualification Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Chancellor of the level. While the cost of examinations varies between Exchequer how many contracts his Department holds providers, the NMG research stated that the median which allow contractors to store personal data of UK cost of attaining an appropriate qualification level per citizens overseas; to which contracts this applies; in adviser would be £749. which countries the data for each such contract is held; and how many people have their data stored overseas Financial Services: Voluntary Organisations under each such contract. [55730] Mike Weatherley: Toask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Justine Greening: HM Treasury does not currently whether he has assessed the merits of regulating the hold any contract that allows contractors to store personal provision of savings and loan advice by the voluntary data of UK citizens overseas. sector. [55765] 269W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 270W

Mr Hoban: It is vital that financial advice is regulated, WOMEN AND EQUALITIES where necessary, to protect consumers. The Financial Services Authority (FSA) and the Office of Fair Trading Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers (OFT) regulate financial services and consumer credit activities respectively. Generally, advice on deposit savings is not regulated, except where it is covered by the Maria Eagle: To ask the Minister for Women and Regulated Activities Order Article 52B, regarding providing Equalities how much the Government Equalities office advice on stakeholder products. Activities such as debt spent on special advisers’ travel by (a) Government car, counselling are regulated by the OFT. (b) private hire car, (c) train, (d) bus, (e) commercial aircraft and (f) private aircraft since May 2010. [56110] While the same regulatory rules apply to industry as to the voluntary sector, in many cases the kind of advice Lynne Featherstone: The Government Equalities Office provided by the voluntary sector would not fall within does not have funding responsibility for any special the scope of FSA regulation. Voluntary sector bodies advisers. that meet the relevant exemption criteria are not charged by the OFT for a licence to conduct consumer credit activities. Departmental Public Transport

Palestinians: Agricultural Products Maria Eagle: To ask the Minister for Women and Equalities on what date she last travelled by (a) London Mr Slaughter: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Underground and (b) public bus in her capacity as when HM Revenue and Customs plans to implement Minister for Women and Equalities; and how many the new arrangements under the EU-Palestine trade times she travelled on each such form of transport agreement to give duty-free access to imports of agricultural whilst on government business in such a capacity since produce from the West Bank and Gaza. [56137] May 2010. [50276]

Mr Gauke: Procedures in the European Union and Lynne Featherstone: Since May 2010, the Minister for Palestine for the conclusion of the Agreement are still Women and Equalities has not made any journeys using ongoing. However, when the date of entry into force of the London Underground or via public bus on official the Agreement is known HMRC will issue a Customs Government business. information Paper which will provide UK importers with information about the new improved preferential rates of customs duty for Palestinian products. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Taxation: Underpayments Convention on International Interests in Mobile Jason McCartney: To ask the Chancellor of the Equipment Exchequer (1) how many cases involving suspected tax underpayment by individuals which were successfully appealed were due to pension payments being incorrectly Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State overstated in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09, (c) 2009-10 for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will bring forward proposals to ratify the Cape Town convention. and (d) 2010-11; [55931] [55653] (2) how many cases involving suspected tax underpayment by individuals were successfully appealed Mr Davey: The UK is committed to its ratification, (a) (b) (c) (d) in 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10 and and issued a Call for Evidence last year July seeking 2010-11. [55932] stakeholder views. Following the Call for Evidence, officials held several meetings with industry stakeholders Mr Gauke: When an individual is issued with notice to discuss the benefits of UK ratification. A Government of an underpayment this is not an assessment of tax Response to the Call for Evidence will be released in the and therefore does not create a legal debt. These notices, near future. known as P800s, simply tell customers what HMRC has calculated as the customer’s correct tax position, using the information it holds. Departmental Legal Costs Appeals can only be made when a formal assessment of tax has been made and, on that basis, no appeals Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for have been made. Individuals who think the calculation Business, Innovation and Skills how much his Department is incorrect in any way should contact HMRC in the and its predecessor paid in (a) damages, (b) claimant first instance. costs and (c) defendant costs in respect of all civil claims brought against his Department in which the Jason McCartney: To ask the Chancellor of the claimant was successful or the Department settled in Exchequer how many underpayment of tax notices each of the last three years. [54641] were issued to pensioners by HM Revenue and Customs in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09, (c) 2009-10 and (d) Mr Davey: The Department and its predecessor paid 2010-11. [55933] the following damages, claimant costs and defendant costs in respect of civil claims brought against the Mr Gauke: The information requested is available Department in which the claimant was successful or the only at disproportionate cost. Department settled: 271W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 272W

of at least £3,000. All institutions that intend to charge £ more than the basic rate for tuition from 2012 are Nature of payment Financial year required to participate in the programme. 2010-11 2009-10 2008-09 2007-08 The Government are investing £50 million in the programme in 2012-13, which will rise to £100 million Damages 0 1,000 0 4,500 in 2013-14 and £150 million in 2014-15. From 2014-15, Claimant 0 5,297 0 4,500 with match funding from institutions, we expect that costs the programme will be supporting up to 100,000 students Defendant 0 3,052 0 11,258 annually. The programme funding cannot be used by costs the institution to support outreach activities. Total sum 0 9,349 0 11,258 paid out London College of Traditional Acupuncture and The 2007 case was for the Department for Trade and Oriental Medicine Industry and the 2009 case was for UK Trade and Investment within the Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Reform, there have been no civil claims brought against Innovation and Skills whether he has had discussions the Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills. with representatives of (a) the University of Portsmouth and (b) the Student Loans Company on the future of Domestic Service: Conditions of Employment the London College of Traditional Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine; and if he will make a statement. Margot James: To ask the Secretary of State for [54863] Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on the proposed International Labour Organisation convention Mr Willetts [holding answer 9 May 2011]: Neither on domestic work. [56489] the Secretary of State nor any other Ministers from this Department have had meetings on this subject in their Mr Davey: The UK Government support the principle roles as Ministers. of a new International Labour Organisation convention I have received correspondence on the subject and, in (and accompanying recommendation) on decent work my role as constituency MP, discussed this with the for domestic workers. We will continue to work to Vice-Chancellor of the University of Portsmouth. secure a workable convention that can be ratified by as many countries as possible, and consequently protect Research: Finance vulnerable domestic workers worldwide.

Higher Education: Scholarships Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what monitoring his Department undertakes of the level of investment in Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, (a) research and development and (b) new technologies Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking to support by the (i) business sector and (ii) regions and nations of university outreach work to wider participation under the UK. [55847] the National Scholarship programme; and if he will make a statement. [56517] Mr Willetts: The Office of National Statistics (ONS) collects figures on Business Expenditure on Research Mr Willetts: The Government have been very clear and Development (BERD) within the UK. The most about the importance of widening participation and recent data, published in December 2010, showed £15.6 improving fair access in higher education. We are billion was spent in 2009 on research and development establishing a new framework, with increased responsibility (R&D) performed within UK businesses. Total R&D on universities to widen participation; and greater expenditure in 2009 represented 1.1% of GDP, in line Government investment in improving attainment and with recent years. The regional breakdown for business access for young people from disadvantaged backgrounds. R&D in 2009 is as follows: Higher education institutions (HEIs) will deliver a range of outreach activities as part of their access agreements, BERD, 2009 agreed with the Office for Fair Access, and their widening £ million participation strategic assessments, agreed with the Higher UK 15,624 Education Funding Council for England. England 14,361 Broad details of the National Scholarship programme North east 313 were announced by my right hon. Friend the Deputy North west 2,050 Prime Minister on 10 February and details were placed Yorkshire and Humber 452 in the House Libraries. East midlands 984 The programme is designed to help people of all ages West midlands 873 whose family income is no greater than £25,000 per East of England 3,898 annum. HEIs will set their own criteria for determining London 926 entitlement to an award from amongst this broad group South east 3,598 of people. Institutions will offer a range of support South west 1,267 from a menu which includes tuition fee waivers or Wales 321 discounts, subsidised accommodation and other Scotland 644 institutional support, and a cash bursary—capped at Northern Ireland 297 £1,000. Each eligible full-time student will get a benefit 273W Written Answers18 MAY 2011 Written Answers 274W

The ONS, on behalf of the Department for Business, The latest figures showed 58% of UK businesses Innovation and Skills, also collects data on innovation engaged in some innovation activity during the three and investment in new technologies through the UK year period 2006 to 2008 by either developing a new Innovation Survey. product and/or process or investing in a future innovation.

1MC Ministerial Corrections18 MAY 2011 Ministerial Corrections 2MC

Ministerial Correction Transaction date Supplier Amount (£) 02 July WP-Mal Maison 84.00 Wednesday 18 May 2011 Limi

Chief executive 2008 COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT 29 September www.Ibahn.Com 15.00 9 October Hospitality Services 15.00 Audit Commission: Government Procurement Card 10 November Southern 22.80 19 November Nat Express E Cst 53.00 Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for 4 December Sofitel St. James 73.69 Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 4 December Fredericks 108.56 answer of 26 April 2011, Official Report, column 195W, 8 December Hilton Hotel 206.05 on the Government Procurement Card, which Audit 9 December Sofitel St. James 114.75 Commission transactions on the Government Procurement 11 December Fredericks 153.79 Card in (a) 2008-09 and (b) 2009-10 were made by 12 December Marriott 35.60 each director and board member of the Commission. 12 December Coq D’Argent 112.16 [54539] 15 December Jurys Birmingham 429.90 [Official Report, 10 May 2011, Vol. 527, c. 1175-77W.] 16 December Indigo Restaurant 107.94 Letter of correction from Mr Robert Neill: 18 December Lescargot 605.03 18 December Sherpherd’s 105.75 An error has been identified in the answer given to 19 December Portland Spa Hotel 166.87 the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric 19 December The Butlers Wharf 147.54 Ollerenshaw) on 10 May 2011. Chop The full answer given was as follows: 21 December Crowne Plaza 133.99 22 December Holiday Inns 259.25 Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive 2009 of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend 29 January Arbutus 94.84 direct. Restaurants Lt Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 10 May 2011: 29 January Bank Restaurant 94.56 Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. B001 The following table lists transactions made on the Government 29 January Bank Restaurant 82.35 Procurement Card for 2008/09 and 2009/10 by the Audit Commission’s B001 Chief Executive and Chairman. No other directors or Commissioners 29 January Bonds Restaurant 85.33 hold cards. and Bar No transactions were made between January and March 2010. 29 January OXO Tower 101.53 Restaurant Transaction date Supplier Amount (£) 29 January Quirinale Ltd 122.63 29 January Quirinale Ltd 108.00 Chairman 29 January Quirinale Ltd 101.25 2008 29 January Roussillon 497.89 27 October Newquay Airport 5.00 24 April Parliamentary Book 45.00 6 November British -191.50 Shop AIRW1252449202641 5 May Quirinale 240.19 12 November B A Int-Dom 349.80 15 May Coq D’Argent 90.00 1252451231894 11 June Le Cafe Anglais 108.06 12 November Newquay Airport 5.00 19 June The Don 109.46 19 November B A Int-Dom 6.00 29 June Shepherd’s 98.44 1252451458879 30 June Swisscom Internet 60.00 19 November Transpennine Exprs 2.90 22 July Albannack 92.81 Radisson Edwardian 5 August Islington Pay and 7.30 Display 12 December Manchester 156.95 23 September Marriott 15.00 17 December St Martins on the 125.00 Isle 24 September Hakkasan 91.76 25 September Shepherd’s 73.13 1 October Hilton Hotel 90.45 2009 1 October Hilton Hotel 3.95 29 January The Cinnamon 230.29 5 October Virgin (WC) Trains 193.50 Club 6 October The Olive Press 52.00 19 May Air France 88.76 (Manchester) 0572181224177 19 May www.Flybe.COCW3042 44.48 8 October Jurys Manchester 620.00 24 June Corinthia Towers 528.37 21 October Hotel Du Vin 74.69 Hotel 22 October Hilton 121.80 3MC Ministerial Corrections18 MAY 2011 Ministerial Corrections 4MC

Transaction date Supplier Amount (£) Transaction date Supplier Amount (£)

22 October Holiday Inns 29.20 18 June Hospitality Services 15.00 29 October Sofitel St. James 96.75 25 June Fredericks 153.79 2 November Quirinale 87.69 3 July Marriott 35.60 29 December Parliamentary Book 59.35 14 July The Butlers Wharf 147.54 Shop Chop 3 September Coq d’Argent 112.16 The correct answer should have been: 4 September Oxo Tower 101.53 Restaurant Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the 10 September Quirinale Ltd 122.63 Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive 15 September www.ibahn.com 15.00 of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend 1 October Jurys Birmingham 429.90 direct. 9 October Holiday Inns 259.25 Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 17 May 2011: 21 October Crowne Plaza 133.99 Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. 27 October Arbutus 94.84 The following table lists transactions made on the Government Restaurants Ltd Procurement Card for 2008/09 and 2009/10 by the Audit Commission’s 29 October Quirinale Ltd 108.00 Chief Executive and Chairman. No other directors or Commissioners 4 November Bank Restaurant 94.56 hold cards. B00l No transactions were made between January and March 2010. 10 November Southern 22.80 26 November Sofitel St. James 114.75 Transaction date Supplier Amount (£) 16 December Roussillon 497.89

Chairman 2009 2008 30 January Portland Spa Hotel 166.87 17 April British -191.50 Airw1252449202641 27 February Bonds Restaurant 85.33 and Bar 22 May Newquay Airport 5.00 9 March Bank Restaurant 82.35 27 May St Martins on the 125.00 B001 Isle 19 March Quirinale Ltd 101.25 27 May Newquay Airport 5.00 26 March Sofitel St. James 73.69 2 June BA Int-Dom 349.80 1252451231894 24 April Parliamentary Book 45.00 Shop 11 June BA Int-Dom 6.00 1252451458879 5 May Quirinale 240.19 19 June Transpennine Exprs 2.90 15 May Coq d’Argent 90.00 20 June Radisson 156.95 11 June Le Cafe Anglais 108.06 Edwardian Man 19 June The Don 109.46 24 November The Cinnamon 230.29 29 June Shepherd’s 98.44 Club 30 June Swisscom Internet 60.00 22 July Albannach 92.81 2009 5 August Islington Pay and 7.30 Display 19 May Air France 88.76 0572181224177 23 September Marriott 15.00 19 May www.flybe.co 44.48 24 September Hakkasan 91.76 CW3042 25 September Shepherd’s 73.13 24 June Corinthia Towers 528.37 1 October Hilton Hotel 90.45 Hotel 1 October Hilton Hotel 3.95 2 July WP-Mal Maison 84.00 5 October Virgin (WC) trains 193.50 Limited 6 October The Olive Press 52.00 (Manchester) Chief executive 8 October Jurys Manchester 620.00 2008 21 October Hotel du Vin 74.69 11 April Fredericks 108.56 22 October Hilton 121.80 24 April Nat Express E Cst 53.00 22 October Holiday Inns 29.20 16 May Indigo Restaurant 107.94 29 October Sofitel St. James 96.75 4 June Shepherd’s 105.75 2 November Quirinale 87.69 12 June Lescargot 605.03 29 December Parliamentary Book 59.35 Shop 18 June Hilton Hotel 206.05 ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 18 May 2011

Col. No. Col. No. NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 323 NORTHERN IRELAND—continued Bill of Rights ...... 327 Terrorism (Powers of Detention) ...... 329 Economy...... 330 Union (Referendum)...... 328 Independent International Commission on West Lothian Question ...... 331 Decommissioning ...... 323 Legacy Issues ...... 331 PRIME MINISTER ...... 332 Personal Protection Training...... 327 Engagements...... 332 Security Threat ...... 324 Engagements...... 338 Security Threat ...... 331 Nuclear Deterrent ...... 337 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Wednesday 18 May 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 13WS DEFENCE...... 19WS Local Enterprise Partnerships (Gloucestershire) .... 13WS UK/Iraq Bilateral Agreement ...... 19WS Review of Intellectual Property and Growth...... 13WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 20WS Review of Offender Learning...... 14WS Fukushima (Interim Report)...... 20WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL CABINET OFFICE...... 17WS AFFAIRS...... 22WS Identity Assurance ...... 17WS Annual Report of the Veterinary Products Committee and its Sub-Committees 2010 ...... 22WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 18WS Single Payment Scheme...... 22WS Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer TREASURY ...... 15WS Affairs Council Agenda (19 May 2011)...... 18WS ECOFIN (17 May 2011) ...... 15WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 18 May 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 270W EDUCATION—continued Convention on International Interests in Mobile Drama: Finance...... 251W Equipment ...... 270W Education: Finance...... 251W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 270W Free School Meals: Sunderland...... 252W Domestic Service: Conditions of Employment...... 271W Free Schools: Teachers...... 253W Higher Education: Scholarships...... 271W International Baccalaureate ...... 253W London College of Traditional Acupuncture and Learning Disability: Parents...... 254W Oriental Medicine ...... 272W Music: English Baccalaureate ...... 255W Research: Finance...... 272W Physics: Teachers...... 255W Pupils: Disadvantaged...... 255W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 230W Pupils: Dyslexia ...... 256W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 230W School Leaving...... 256W Faith Communities: Places of Worship...... 230W Schools: Admissions ...... 257W Greater Manchester ...... 231W Schools: Coventry ...... 263W Multiple Occupation...... 231W Schools: Nurses...... 263W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 232W Schools: Standards...... 264W Departmental Billing ...... 232W Special Educational Needs...... 264W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 232W Sports: Clubs ...... 265W Government Art Collection ...... 232W Supplementary Schools...... 265W Olympic Games 2012: Smoking ...... 233W Teachers: Manpower...... 266W Sports: Schools ...... 233W Teachers: Merseyside ...... 266W Sports: Young People...... 233W Teachers: Training...... 266W Teachers: West Midlands ...... 267W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 234W Teenage Pregnancy...... 267W Elections: Armed Forces ...... 234W West London Free School...... 267W Electoral Register: Scotland ...... 235W EDUCATION...... 246W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 235W Academies...... 246W Carbon Reduction Commitment Energy Academies: Berkshire...... 246W Efficiency Scheme ...... 235W Children: Day Care ...... 247W Climate Change: Developing Countries ...... 235W Disadvantaged: Milton Kenyes ...... 248W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 236W Col. No. Col. No. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—continued JUSTICE—continued Energy Performance Certificates...... 236W Reoffenders...... 207W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 236W Reoffenders: Crimes of Violence...... 208W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Young Offenders: Children in Care ...... 209W AFFAIRS...... 213W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 222W Biodiversity...... 213W Corporation Tax ...... 223W Coastal Areas: Access ...... 214W Departmental Billing ...... 223W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 214W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 224W Floods: Insurance ...... 214W Inward Investment ...... 222W Land: Contamination ...... 215W Pat Finucane ...... 223W Rivers...... 215W Universal Credit...... 223W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 237W SCOTLAND...... 216W al-Qaeda ...... 237W Departmental Billing ...... 216W British Nationals Abroad: Sexual Offences ...... 237W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 217W Departmental Billing ...... 237W Departmental Taxis ...... 217W Israel: Terrorism...... 238W Devolution...... 217W Malaysia: Burma...... 238W Greater Manchester ...... 217W United Arab Emirates: AssetCo...... 239W Trade Unions ...... 218W HEALTH...... 240W TRANSPORT ...... 224W Abortion ...... 240W Cycleways ...... 224W Departmental Billing ...... 241W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 225W Departmental Data Protection...... 242W Driving Offences: Fines...... 225W Diseases: Health Services ...... 242W Great Western Railway: Franchises...... 225W Fluoride: Drinking Water ...... 243W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 225W Hospitals: North East ...... 243W HM Coastguard...... 227W NHS: Managers ...... 243W Motor Vehicles: Registration...... 227W NHS: Reorganisation...... 243W Railway Stations: Access...... 229W Nurses: Manpower...... 244W Railways: North West ...... 229W Nurses: West Midlands ...... 244W Railways: Wales ...... 230W School Milk ...... 245W Shipping...... 230W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 218W TREASURY ...... 267W Animal Experiments ...... 218W Departmental Data Protection...... 267W Community Safety Local Partnerships...... 219W Equitable Life Assurance Society: Compensation .. 268W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 219W Financial Services: Qualifications ...... 268W Driving Offences ...... 219W Financial Services: Voluntary Organisations...... 268W Entry Clearances: Married People ...... 220W Palestinians: Agricultural Products ...... 269W Immigrants ...... 220W Taxation: Underpayments...... 269W Immigrants: Detainees ...... 221W WALES...... 193W Immigration: India...... 222W Departmental Billing ...... 193W Shoplifting ...... 222W Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 193W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 239W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 193W Africa: Overseas Aid ...... 239W Devolution...... 194W Departmental Billing ...... 240W Greater Manchester ...... 194W JUSTICE...... 197W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 270W Aiding and Abetting ...... 197W Departmental Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 270W Antisocial Behaviour: Fixed Penalties ...... 198W Departmental Public Transport ...... 270W Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme ...... 205W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 194W Departmental Data Protection...... 205W Departmental Accountancy ...... 194W Departmental Travel ...... 205W Departmental Billing ...... 194W Legal Aid: Gurkhas ...... 206W Departmental Legal Costs ...... 195W Legal Aid: Reform ...... 207W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 196W Prison Service: Manpower ...... 207W Employment Schemes: Barking and Dagenham..... 196W Prison Service: Manpower ...... 207W Incapacity Benefit: Glasgow ...... 196W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Wednesday 18 May 2011

Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT .1MC Audit Commission: Government Procurement Card...... 1MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Wednesday 25 May 2011

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), on application to the Stationery Office, c/o the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons, from whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Office.

PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN compiled by the House of Commons, giving details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. The Annual Subscription includes also automatic despatch of the Sessional Information Digest. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscriptions: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 528 Wednesday No. 160 18 May 2011

CONTENTS

Wednesday 18 May 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 323] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Prime Minister

Nuclear Industry Safety [Col. 343] Answer to urgent question—(Chris Huhne)

Nuclear Deterrent [Col. 351] Statement—(Chris Huhne)

Road Safety [Col. 365] Motion for leave to introduce Bill—(Sir Alan Beith)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Localism Bill [Col. 367] As amended, considered; read the Third time

Petition [Col. 466]

Power Line Technology Devices [Col. 467] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Human Trafficking [Col. 77WH] Stillbirth [Col. 101WH] Waste Reduction [Col. 108WH] Manufacturing Sector [Col. 124WH] Policing Costs (Football Matches) [Col. 132WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 13WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 193W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 1MC]