I

KtlrcouvER Every month we play a musician a series of records marching brass band. My father director and "Wa-Wa-Wa" f rom lfi ng Oliver's which they're asked to identify and comment on - was a marching band Dixie Syncopators (Ace of Hearts) w:th no prior knowledge of what they're about to hear. all my uncles were in marching got in mY blood. This is nice. I lrke this. lHe sings, bands, so l've that between conducts and stomps his leetl l've So there is a connection heard the song, but I have no idea all these elements - especially in who it is. l'd almost say it was Jabbo the spirit that the elder musicians Smith, but l'm not really sure. lt's had. not Louis Armstrong. No, but he gave Louis one of his frrst GURU/DONALDBYRD jobs "Loun gin"' f ro m ! azalmatalz Oh yeah. That's a pretty good hint (Chrysalis) - it's King Oliver. Okay. Yeah. I like It sounds like Xiles, but this ain't that. ljust like the whole idea of this Doo-Bop.ls it Donald Byrd? Yeah, music - the sound, the way it's but I don't know who the raPPer is. played, and just the spirit of the l'm not familiar enough with their music basically. You really have 1o styles to know one from the other. capture your era, and this is a really It's Guru from Gang Starr. He proJect "an good example of what Dixieland describes this as expen- jazz". came to later be. But this is a much mentalfusion of HiPHoP and purer form. And it's tricky too. This is a good effort to try to make but I don't Do you think it's important for a iazz some sort of fusion, player to listen to music from this really think it comes 0ff. You've period? really got to put a little bit more into Oh yeah, definitely it's important. it lt kind of sounds like the Jazz These are things that are essential. players are playing down a bit. l'm These the basics roots ofjazz in favour of fusion, but I don't are m trumpet playing you have to lis- v believe in playing down to anyone l - just ten to King Oliver, to iabbo, think you should put as much o creative energy into a fusion as you Beiderbecke, Louis Armstrong, any ots I of those guys. I use it as reference o would to anything else. Xore could material and try to somehow incor- be done with the form; something porate that into what l'm doing lt's should be added. You can'tjust essential that elements of early jazz layer put a solo over a raP track lester bowie - you've are embedded in your mind and then call that it reallY by Philip \lllatson - because the only way you are going tested got to put some music in there. to create something new is to be Brass Fantasy have a tune that's an familiar with what has already hap- Lester Bowie is one of jaz work with his own groups and experiment in this area, but it's pened. Because if you're not, you music's great mavericks. A the AEOC, he has played in Jack quite different from this approach may think you're creating some- founder member of the Art DeJohnette's llew Edition, There is rapping, but there's an thing new and actually you aren't. Ensemble of Chicago, and recorded with such players as arrangement and everything We Are there connections between this leader of the boisterous, Piano- Archie Shepp, David llurray actually put some time in thinking music and the music you play in less I 0-piece Brass Fantasy, and Taj l,lahal, and lived and about how it was going to be Brass Fantasy? trumpeter Bowie has been a played in Nigeria with Fela Kuti. voiced, what kind of feeling it was Well, there is a very good connec- musical provocateur for over 35 l'lost recently he appeared on going to have And we wanted to tion in that we are both trying to years. Famous for his on-stage his namesake David Bowie's CD, do it without a guitar, without a deal with contemporary music. And lab coats, two-pronged goatee, BlsckTie White Noise, emphasis- backing track, without any scratch- you gonna I think that some people, especially theatrical soloing and pugna- ing his continuing interest in ing. But feel all of the you now in jazz, have forgotten that cious intelligence, Bowie was popular music and songs. His grooves you would feel if had they have to be contemporary. Our brought up in St louis but latest album, The Fire fhis Time heard a rap record. That's the way I brass thing is kind of an extension moved to Chicago in 1966. (ln & Out), is a live CD recorded approach those kind of things For of the New Orleans traditional Since then, in addition to his in Switzerland last year. me, when I experiment with other

46 The Wire forms, it's a point take-off l mean, to about fusion, because he has And I get particularly angry with to make a Iegitimate contribution to we play Willie Nelson songs, but we really done it successfully. He people who try to defame him. the extension of the music That's play good arrangements of Willie opened up the whole world music Especially now that he's dead. I whatthose guys, Xiles, Cecil Taylor, Nelson songs. lt's not half an effort thing. Greatjob done, greatjob. As heard Wynton [Xarsalis] say some- Omette, Coltrane, Bird taught us: be that ends up with somethrng half- always thing about l'1iles recently and next different. As Max Roach once said to arsed. time I see Wynton somebody may JoJones: you can'tjoin the throng And Donald Byrd? BRYANFERRY have to hold me back from slap- until you sing your own song. That's l've been a Byrd (Virgin) Donald fan for a "Rescue lle" f rom Taxi ping him upside his head. He's said always been the way it goes. long time. I mean, I knew about That almost sounds like "Rescue things about Xiles that ljust can't Cats today should be finding out Donald Byrd before I knew of Bird. lYe" man Wooaaahhh Yeah! understand. I was always brought some new notes, some newways of And when Brrd died I thought they Fontella got [Bass] has to hear this up with the idea that if you can't playing that I don't know anything were talking about Donald Byrd. He I got get to this. lt sounds like David say anything good about the dead, about l'm a grandfather-what lam used to play like these really long Bowie, but I don't know who it is you don't say anything Now what's doing being the revolutionary? There lines Donald Byrd was a mon- sings along.) guy - [He this talking about accusing should be some guy outthere, 2 5 ster. I mean, he could play a line It's Bryan Ferry and I think this song Miles Davis of treason. Who rs this years old, playing things that I can't that would go around the corner means something to you doesn't it? guy, who has done nothing yet to even imagine Wynton, for instance, and then meet itself coming the yeah, Oh it sure does. I must have even approach the level of anything hasthetechnique if he applied it other way. But played - then he had a lot of that song about six million Xiles did? ln a recent issue of to play some remarkable things, problems - with his chops, and he times. I And that's a nice version. Downbeatl he said Xiles was like a but he'sjustwasting his fucking can't play like anymore. you that But at mean, know, things like that I general who had sold out and gone talent. least he's still making an attempt to can respect He takes a familiar over to the other side That was the So I take it you don't want to hear make a connection. Whether it's song and comes up with a different straw that broke my back. I was the Wynton track I was going to successful is another thing. version. He puts something into the already mad and didnt like what he play you? music That kind of stuff I like - to was doing, but then I thought man Oh well, no, we can talk about that. l.tAt{DtltcoGRtoT do a song like that in an original this guys's really out to sabotage SOCIETY/DONCHERRY way, to me, is just great the music for real WYNTONI.IARSAI,IS "llusubalanto" f rom The That was [first recorded by] my f irst After that last interview l've staft- "Allegro; Cadenza" f rom llandingo (Ftying Griot Society wife, Fontella Bass, and lwas her ed to seriously question just what Tomasi's Concerto for Trumpet Fish) musical director. I remember when his involvement with this music is. I and Orchesfia/Philharmonia Okay. Well it sounds like Don wefirstcameto England, my name think it's detrimental I think there's Orchestra/Esa-Pekka Salonen Cherry on trumpet. Don Cherry, to was never mentioned in the papers someihing evil somewhere. (CBSltasterworks) me, is one of the most underrated "Fontella - theyjustwrote Bass was Because ifs getting out of the You can stop it there l've heard musicians l mean, - Don Cherry, first accompanied by a coloured realm ofjust not knowing orjust this before. l'll tell you about this of all, rs music. This guy is just a one trumpeter" Those were the f irst being young. This is like a deliberate whole conspiracy thing. This is how big piece of printed music His whole being words about me in England effort to sabotage the development Wynton has been tricked himself is music Now, people speak about Butthat record was very popular, of the music. I mean, if that's the You see, he's been miscast. Now, technique, but that has only a and still is. way he's talking about Miles, he Wynton is an excellent musician I minor part to do with music, You've always had a very positive must think l'm a piece of shit. think Wynton could be the greatest because Don has done more for and open attitude to pop music Wynton was in my band when he classical trumpet player that ever trumpet players, more for opening Well, rt didnt get to be pop music first came to New York, but now he lived. But they tricked him They're up the music, than people any of these because didn't like it For doesn't come around me. I think using him too. They're tricking him guys who can play the concertos. jazz me, as a musician, it's not he's scared of me or something. out of that because I don't think So it's not about technique, it's play, about what I it's about how I Yan said once that you think they want him up in there, being about who really I play contributes. it So I take influences from all Wynton is using the concept of the that good. You'd be surprised mean, after Miles Davis, it was - Don directions. And in pop music there's trodtton to destroy the tradtton there's so much racism in classical Cherry who really freed up the lan- the appeal of the song, the melody, Yeah, to destroy it He's using a music. Those guys give him a hard guage of the trumpet it gave - us the rhythms - there's something partial concept of the tradition lf time they try to'sabotage his the impetus to really go and search - there that can be explored. And I you're talking about the tradltion in performance, the orchestra will hall out our own ways. So his influence think the artist has an obligation to Jazz, what about the tradltion of play their parts, the conductors will has really been felt in anybody who reach the audience. And when I say innovation, creativity, moving for- be trying to fuck with him Plus the is playing so-called free jazz on that I don't mean go down l'm ward, being contemporary. Is that vibe is always funny and when trumpet they're - - coming from trying to bring people up to my not part of the tradition of jau? you're trying to play music you Don Cherry He's really made a level, not condescend. But l've What about the tradition of having don't need a funny vibe you strong contribution - and he's been never had anything against pop and maintaining an individual voice. don't need guys in the orchestra really neglected. People always see pop music. I like music, and I don't Tradition has to be taking the music looking at you funny as if to say, him as some sort of fucking joke or see anything wrong with it. as a whole who is this negro here; who does something, but Don Cherry's a total Whatwe were doing in the 60s was he think he is? But if Wynton was musician, and a true traveller Now, l.ltLEsDAvts trying to be different that'sthe really strong, if he had nerve, if he you talk about fusion Don (Columbia) - - "Agitation" f rom ESP whole idea. AII the guys then taught was really a man, he would frght all Cherry does real fusion. He takes That must be Tony lWillrams] on the usto be creative, so whatwerewe that shtt and stick in there and the elements and puts he really a drums. And that's Xiles after the going to do come up with an become the greatest classical spirit into the music. - - Don Cherry's first note, you know who it is. Xiles imitation of them?We hadtocome trumpet player ever He should like travelled the whole world Davis was one of the greatest up with - - an alternative -that'sthe be developing orchestras, he's the guy you really need to talk trumpet players who ever lived waywe thought itwas done. (continued You try on page 7 1 )

The Wire 47 (continued from page 47) we are just perpetuating the same developing black orchestras, racism, the same homophobia, the getting some things together - same bullshitthat's already going on. you know what l'm saying. So my objective, what l'm trying to do But because he could do that, with the music, istotryto getoutof because he can play the concerto, this kind of situation, totry make it doesn't make him the king of things a little bit better jazz.Ihe thing about jazz is that it We've run ofi of time. There's no reveals who you really are. Wynton time to play you the Kenny Dorham is not a jazz innovator - he's just track l'd dug out. not that kind of a person. But he's Oh, that would have been nice. l'm an excellent trumpet player and he crazy about Kenny Dorham. Kenny has a knowledge of music that Dorham's the reason l'm playing none of these classical guys can trumpet now. He was just so hip,

even touch. They couldn't even get and I just wanted to be like that. I close - Wynton would kick their just wanted to be a cat like Kenny arse. Yeah, he's a brilliant trumpet Dorham - he was a musicians' player; he's just not a. . . brilliant musician. But, you know. . . there is person. something l'd like to hear. Do you just happen to have any Rex ICE.T Stewart. "\ifarning" f rom Home lnvasion Yeah, but only some of his later (RhymeSyndicate) sWfrom the 50s, I think. lThe track is a waming that if you Well play me some of that are offended by such words as people tell me I sound lust so much 'slut', tramp','btrch','shtt', like Rex Stewart 'nigge/' and'low motherfuckel', you shouldn't continue listeningl REXSTEWART [Laughs]Well, music can be used a "Tillie's Twist" f rom Rendezvous lot of ways, and a lot of ways can ItithRex(limelight) be detrimental. A lot of people just Yeah, I sure do sound like Rex use things to get attention or cause Stewart. Rex has this more vocal controversy orjust sell albums. approach; I think what l've done is None of these words were words taken up where he left off. Where that my five-year-old grand some guys use his tricls or his daughter hasn't heard. So it's not comments, l've taken them as a as if these things are out of the basis for a whole other ordinary But I don't think the conversation. Like I say, the music emphasis should be put on them as was so wide open years ago. Now much. I think a lot of it can teach a it's getting that it's so closed When lack of respect for women, for gays I first went to New York there were Some of the things in this music so many different trumpet sounds are very negative and l'm against - Kenny Dorham, Blue Xitchell, negative images in music Johnny Coles - I mean, they could So where do you stand on 'Cop play the same song and you'd hear Killef'? five totally different solos. Now you lLaughsl l think that eveMhing get these guys copying Wynton - should be available; I think people copying a copy - and they sound should know about these rhings like fucking clones. That's why I call But I don't want to say what I really these guys fucking androids. think. l'm not going to say. I know They're clones man l how to deal with Wynton, but the police l've got to deal with every Lester Bowie appears wtth the Art day. In some ways, his attitude Ensemble of Chicago at London's towards the police was realistic Union Chapel on 8 July, and at the because the police kill so many Glasgow Jazz Festival (l -1 1 July). people, needlessly lf I was in that bag, if I were a guerilla warnor, yeah I would do a whole lot of cop killrng. I would be a really good terrorist you know. Butwe aretryingto promote a positive image - as long as we keep promoting these negative attitudes

The Wire 7l