CONSTITUTION OF KENYA REVIEW COMMISSION (CKRC)

NATIONAL CONSTITUTIONAL CONFERENCE (NCC)

Verbatim Report of

PRESENTATION OF THE REPORT OF THE TASK FORCE ON AD HOC COMMITTEE ON CULTURE HELD AT THE BOMAS OF KENYA

ONONON

202020 THTHTH AUGUST, 2003

Page 1 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM CONSTITUTION OF KENYA REVIEW COMMISSION NCC - PRESENTATION OF THE REPORT OF THE TASK FORCE ON AD HOC COMMITEEE ON CULTURE HELD AT BOMAS OF KENYA ON 20.08.2003

Meeting was called to order at 9.30 a.m.

PLO Lumumba: I request Lorna Laboso, Asenath Nyamu and Were Domtila to kindly come forward to take the oath in a few minutes. Lorna Laboso, Asenath Nyamu and Were Domtila, kindly come forward.

Prof. Yash Pal Ghai: Please take your seats. We shall start with prayers in one minute please. Good morning, Ladies and Gentlemen. Baldip Singh Rihal, Ms. Beatrice Mwaringa and Sheikh Ali Shee will say the prayers this morning. So I will first call upon Mr. Rihal, then Mwaringa and then Sheikh Ali Shee. Please stand up for prayers.

Hon. Delegate Baldip Singh Rihal: Let us pray. Oh Supreme God, Absolute All-pervading, the Eternal, the Creator of the universe, the Cause of causes without enemity, without hate, both eminent in your creation and beyond it. You are not the God of one nation but the God of grace. Oh God, Delegates to the National Constitutional Conference have gathered for the second and most critical stage of the Constitution writing for Kenya. We pray that you give the Delegates the wisdom and selfless sense of service to write a new Constitution for Kenya. Oh Supreme God, we pray for your mercy and blessings on all people of this nation.

Hon. Delegate Sheikh Ali Shee: Bismilahi Rahman Rahim. Kwa jina la Mwenyezi Mungu, mwingi wa rehema na subira na hekima, tunakushukuru kwa kuungwa mkono na wewe katika kazi ngumu ambayo tumekuwa tukiifanya. Utupe nguvu zako, utupe busara, utupe uwezo wa kuvumilia na kusubiri katika shida zote ambazo tutazipata. Utulinde katika hali iliyo bora, ulinde taifa letu lote. Uwape wananchi wetu nguvu za kusubiri na kuvumilia. Ewe Mola, tunakuomba wewe, hatuna mola mwingine. Wewe ndiwe mwenye miliki ya ardhi na mbingu. Tupe uwezo wa kuweza kufanya kazi hii ya Katiba, tuweze kutoa Katiba iliyo nzuri ya kunufaisha vyumbe vyako vilioko katika nchi hii. Utupe uhusiano mwema, utupe kila la kheri

Page 2 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM na baraka, utuondolee fitina, utondolee wasiwasi, tunakuomba hatuna mwingine wa kumuomba ila ni wewe, utubariki. Amen.

Hon. Delegate Beatrice Mwaringa: Baba Mwenyezi Mungu, tunakuhimidi asubuhi hii ya leo kwa sababu ya uzima ambao umetupa. Mungu tunajua kwamba ni wengi waliotamani kuiona siku hii ya leo, lakini Bwana hawakuweza. Sio kwamba wao ni wenye dhambi kushinda sisi, lakini Bwana tunajua una lengo nasi katika asubuhi hii ya leo na mchana huu wote. Tunaweka kila jambo katika mikono yako ili Bwana wewe utuongoze.

Sisi wenyewe hatuwezi na tunajua ya kwamba umetupa jukumu kubwa la kufanya katika nchi yetu hii. Ni wewe tu ndiwe ambaye ulituchagua kwa sababu sisi wenyewe hatungeweza kufanya hivyo, lakini ulituona. Basi Bwana tunaomba uwezo wako uingie katika kila mmoja wetu, ili Bwana lile lengo ambalo ulituitia hapa litimie. Tunajua ya kwamba Wakenya wote wametia tumaini lao kati ya Wajumbe hawa. Basi Bwana waongoze, wao wenyewe hawawezi kufanya, lakini wewe ukiwa katikati yetu tunajua yote yatatendeka. Nasi tuna imani kubwa ya kwamba ingawaje tuko kabila mbali mbali hapa, tuko na dini mbali mbali, lakini Bwana umetupa uwezo wa kuja pamoja, ili sote tufikirie Kenya yetu kama kitu kimoja. Bwana tupe uwezo huo, tupe amani katika jengo hili, hasa kwa siku hii ya leo. Ondoa michafuko yote ambayo shetani yuko tayari kuiweka. Tunajua ya kwamba wewe ukiwapo hakuna yeyote ambaye anaweza kufanya lolote.

Bwana tunatumaini kwa sababu wewe ni Mungu wa uwezo, ni Mungu wa mapenzi na unatupenda ndiposa ukatuweka pamoja ili tujifikirie maisha yetu ya baadaye. Basi Bwana utende hayo kwa mchana huu wa leo, nasi tunaamini ya kwamba yatatendeka maana uwezo wako ni mkuu, hakuna ambaye anaweza. Na tumeuliza hivi, sio kwamba sisi ni wenye haki, bali tumeuliza ni katika jina kuu la Mwanao Yesu Kristo ambaye ni Bwana na Mwokozi wetu tumeomba na kuamini.

Prof. Yash Pal Ghai: Thank you very much. There are a number of Delegates who need to be sworn in today. I will ask them to please come to the podium in front of me, then I will administer the Oath. Now, can I ask you if you are all going to take the oath as opposed to affirmation?

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Hon. Delegates: Oath.

Prof. Yash Pal Ghai: Oath, okay. I am going to read the oath and you will repeat after me. When I say “I” you say “I” and then you mention your name and then you will repeat after me. So please raise your hand.

Could I ask for silence please so that we have the swearing in?

(Oath administered as follows to Hon. Delegates Llorna Labos, Asenath Nyamu and Were Domtila)

“I being appointed a Delegate to the National Constitutional Conference under the Constitution of Kenya Review Commission Act, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully and fully, impartially and to the best of my ability discharge the trust and perform the functions and exercise the powers devolving upon me by virtue of this appointment without fear, favour, bias, affection, ill-will or prejudice and to the end that in the exercise of the functions and powers as such Delegate, I shall at all times be guided by the national interest. So help me God”.

Well, I welcome you to the Conference and look forward to your contribution. Please sign the Oath and I will come to sign it later on. Thank you.

Communication from the Chair:

Prof. Yash Pal Ghai: I would like to make a few announcements before we proceed to the business of the day. I have been asked by the Chair of the Welfare Committee to announce that the meeting of that Committee will be held at 1.00pm, in one of the tents where we normally adjourn for coffee. There will also be a lunch time meeting of the Convenors and Rapporteurs of the Technical Committees in the youth tent, which I believe is somewhere in that direction (pointing). I also have to state that we have received proposal for Motion from Hon. Karua to set aside some time for the Plenary discussion on Affirmative Action and we are now considering

Page 4 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM when to bring that forward but we will do that in a day or two and I need to discuss with her the precise formulation of the Motion. So if Hon. Karua is here, could she please see me later today so that we can arrange the time for this presentation.

The main programme today will be the presentation of two reports, the first one is the Task Force on Culture and the other one is the report of the Task Force on Devolution. As Prof. Okoth Ogendo explained yesterday, the Commission set up two Task Forces to explore topics that had received inadequate attention, at least on the case of Culture and the case of Devolution perhaps the recommendations in the Draft are subject to detailed discussion, that it was felt that some re- thinking was necessary and that report that I mentioned does that task.

So I will begin with the Task Force on Culture. Three Commissioners who are sitting with me will be presenting that report; each will take a section and each Commissioner will take about half an hour to present that section. So I am not sure what the order is. Commissioner Adagala will start the presentation and I invite her now to begin.

REPORT ON TASK FORCE ON CULTURE

Session Chair - Wilfred Koitamet Ole Kina

Presenters - Com. Kavetsa Adagala Com. Salome Wairimu Muigai Com. Abubakar Zein Abubakar

Com. Kavetsa Adagala : Thank you very much, fellow Delegate. Today we are pleased to be here and to present to you and we want probably before we do anything else to thank this Conference for the affirmative approach they had towards culture so that we have been able to bring our culture into our Constitution and perhaps this will be the most distinctive part of our Constitution. It is a good thing because we are preaching to people who are already converted so we do not have to justify much but definitely we owe our gratitude to you. We are here, three Commissioners; on my left is Salome Muigai and on my right is Zein. We shall present in three parts, it does not mean that we are the only ones who were on this, I shall read to you the people

Page 5 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM who were with us in the committee and we were, myself - Co-convenor, Commissioners Salome Muigai - Co-convenor, Bishop Bernard Njoroge - member, Abubakar Zein, Pastor Zablon Ayonga, Domiziano Ratanya, Nancy Baraza, Dr. Phoebe Asiyo, Prof. Wanjiku Kabira, who is a cultural worker who is in Devolution making sure that we have our cultural component there.

I would like to say that we had a very able Secretariat led by Mr. Charles Oyaya who worked day and night and during weekends to make sure that this report came out, Peter Kanyi who was the Data Analyst and Joash Aminga, who is a librarian and was on the internet trying to get us a lot of materials, Ms. Liz Kingi who is an officer also dealt with the audit of the present draft that we have, Silvia Nyaga who dealt with how culture comes out in legislation and also how other Constitutions in other parts of the world have handled culture, Noor Awadh and Maurice Kepoi who were also working on different sections and Wycliffe Owade who worked on globalization, Leah Symekher who was also with us working on views I think with Noor and with Maurice Kepoi. Noor Mohamed Abdi also worked on the views of Kenyans together with Geoffrey Mosoti, these officers worked very hard and it was a very inspiring period for them, because it was also transformative and we are grateful that they worked so hard. To help us, there was Dr. Isaac Were of Institute of African Studies who teaches cultural identity and also gender issues at the Institute of African Studies.

We shall present in three parts; I shall present the beginning, which is conceptualization that we worked on, on culture. Commissioner Muigai will present on the views of Kenyans and how they came out and Commissioner Zein will deal with the latter part, which will be international instruments and the recommendations which have come out of all this work. I would like to assure the Conference that here are your views from the Conference, which also guided us, the views that you gave and it appears in every chapter where you are saying our culture should say this and that on a particular issue. We are also doing a file on the verbatim presentation and we shall have that for the Technical Committee on Culture when it will be presented. I want to thank the Ad hoc Committee on Culture although we were not able to work together because of the decisions which were made at the end of the Conference, but we had documentations from there which were very useful in working out some of these aspects of our culture. The document was supposed to have been printed, but it was not printed, I think it is in the process of being

Page 6 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM printed so you will bear with us, perhaps take notes and then we can discuss, but we will try to be clear as we are presenting.

We have terms of reference from this Conference and it is that we should prepare a background paper on the Constitutional promotion and protection of Kenyans cultural diversity and activities. That is the background paper we are presenting to you now, to conduct an audit on the Draft Bill, to determine the extent to which Kenyans cultural heritage has been provided for, that is the cultural audit of the Draft Bill, to explore and propose for other ways of giving Constitutional legitimacy and protection to that heritage, and that we have done in the sense that we have looked for the way in which we can bring up our culture: to prepare a report for consideration by the relevant Technical Working Committees of the National Constitutional Conference. Those were our terms of reference and we have then our mandate which comes from the Review Act and we have it such that it is saying to secure provisions therein, respecting ethnic and regional diversity and communal rights including the rights of communities to organize and participate in cultural activities and the expression of their identities.

At the same time, we were expected to examine and review the social cultural obstacles that promote various homes of discrimination and recommend improvement to secure equal rights for all. On that particular point, I would like to say that we considered the section on equality, equity, or sections and articles which are in the Draft Constitution and the one on Affirmative Action and also on Devolution, that these take care of those negative and discriminatory and harmful aspects of our culture. We can discuss that a little bit more but we consider that, that has been taken care of. And then we have also in section (d) of the Review Act, sub-section 11, specifically required that the rights of the child are examined and reviewed with a view to making recommendations on mechanism that will guarantee protection thereof. That has been taken care of in the Bill of Rights and section 5(c), subsection 3, requires that the review process is guided by respect for the universal principles of human rights, gender equity and democracy.

Section 3, sub-section (h) mandates that the organ of the review includes provisions that aim at strengthening national integration and unity. Section 17(d), sub-section 14 required the Commission to examine and make recommendations on the necessity of directive principles of state policy. I would like to say also that in the Review Act, it is expected that our Constitution

Page 7 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM would be endogenous and that strengthens the argument for the cultural component. The concept of culture and its application, culture is often defined as the symbolic and learnt non-biological aspect of human society including language, custom and convention by which human behaviour can be distinguished from that of other primates. This implies that culture is a uniquely human enterprise, so that is generally so. Then we also have a definition here, the sum total of the solutions supplied by human beings to the problems the environment sets them and in addition we have many definitions. We have some by people like Okot Bitek whom some of you probably remember, we have definitions by Sadat Senghor, the former President of Senegal who said that culture is the sum total of our life. So that is the general universal definition. We have another definition here by Ruth Kibiti who defines culture as the totality of people’s way of life. I think that is very simple and she elucidates that culture is the universal phenomenon in human society which is complex and dynamic in nature.

Dr. Kibiti, however, has a gender perspective to the definition of culture, a concept that is only implied or completely obliterated in literally all previous definitions. On highlighting this, she says that culture provides an identity to both men and women as members of society and then goes on further to say that culture as the ideology which provides justification for the oppression of women creates justification for their exploitation and creates adequate space for male domination and control over women. This is cited to show that culture is not monolithic but within it there are divisions and there are hierarchy and we think that we have taken care of this in the individual human rights which we have put forward and we would like to think that with the water with which we have washed the baby culture, we have thrown out the negative, the discriminatory as it is defined there so that now we can deal with the real substance of culture that can promote the positive aspect of culture.

One of our Delegates, Hon. Mwandawiro Mghanga, has attempted to capture an all encompassing definition of culture and it says that culture is the sum total of a people’s life, it is about people’s struggles against nature for subsistence survival and development as well as struggles and accommodation of other human beings. It includes eating habits, dressing habits, housing trends, designs, art, education, science and technology, how people spend their leisure time, ethics, morality, religion, politics, traditions and customs. It is in short the experience of our civilization. As you can see it covers order of life.

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UNESCO also has definitions which go along the same lines talking of spiritual, material, intellectual, emotional features in a social group in society and it also takes in arts, literature, lifestyle, ways of life, ways of living, value systems, traditions and beliefs. It includes customs, values, language, attitude, behaviour patterns, belief systems, systems of production as well as social and political organizations. Therefore you can see that culture really gives its members their identity. It defines the people who have a shared heritage or a people who have a shared history passed on from generation to generation, dynamic and total. And also culture always has to give that sense of dignity, identity and continuity and security bonding together in society.

Now, there is a section here which says what culture is not. Culture is not merely an accumulation of works and knowledge which an elite produces, collects and conserves in order to place it within reach of all. This particular definition is what is called in some places high culture, there is high culture and low culture. But sometimes it is thought - and I think there was one time when we had a director of the French Cultural Centre who said there is no culture in Africa because he could not see what he calls culture in France here. And this was actually in the papers, he said there is just no culture because of the arts and literature that is produced and what he recognizes as culture, he could not find here and that is perhaps how we have been handled by the colonial masters that it has to look like theirs in order for it to be there otherwise it is a clean plate.

We are people who are rich in the past and in our heritage and we offer our model according to our history and any people do that. Then culture is not limited to works of arts and humanities but it is at the same time the acquisition of knowledge, the demand for a way of life and the need to communicate; that is UNESCO stating that, you will be hearing more about UNESCO as we go on because we want to put ourselves in a context.

Now, when we come to the issue which has preoccupied us as a nation, which is development, we want to see how culture is applied; there are many issues involved here but the first one which comes up is globalization.

Page 9 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Globalization in this region has gone on for five hundred years from the so called discovery of the Eastern Coast and with the Portuguese, with Arabs, with the British, all that was globalization and we were taken up in colonialism and the occupation from the European countries. An article on the drawbacks of cultural globalization traces the genesis of cultural homogeneity in the 16 th century when Western adventurers colonized us, imposed Western religious and cultural practices on people who had their own way of life. So it says that until the late 20 th century it was assumed that development for the colonized people must involve a denial of history, a rejection of their cultural heritage and the adoption of the Western cultural practices and this, as you are familiar with, is actually the tragedy that has befallen us; that we have been put in a catch up kind of situation in other people’s model of development which quite sincerely cannot be achieved because you will always be doing what Okot Bitek called aping, you will be just an ape trying to see what they are doing and follow.

So, the brainwashing of the African (inaudible) the aftermath being definition of African cultures, that is the tragedy that was actually brought upon us, so we are dealing with the situation of tragic proportions. Colonialism became the conduit through which colonial intrusion pervaded and subdued the African continent. And here we find in ‘Things Fall Apart’, Okonkwo saying that the white man has put a knife on the things that held us together, the centre cannot hold, things fall apart. So we are really about that kind of situation where things have fallen apart and we need to pick them up. There are many, many definitions here, but globalization manifests itself and Toepher, the UNDP Director, says many cultures and their indigenous knowledge are being lost partly as a result of the globalization of trade, of media and the rising dominance of Western or Northern style values and traditions. This I think is very familiar with us.

Then he further advances a radical departure on the view held by previous theories regarding the cultural dimension in development policy. H observes that conserving and promoting cultural diversity was no nod in the right direction of nostalgia. It is not a matter of a golden age that used to be, it is not a thing that we are looking back to and just wishing it could be. He observed that culture was an economic imperative. So here we have that issue of globalization and further, another writer says that open-minded people are becoming aware that the hatching up theory of development is guilty of excessive Euro-centricism. That is, it is euro-centric in the sense that it

Page 10 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM is centered on the European values. The indigenous culture of the people of the Third World has been largely neglected. We go on and we see how it affects all spheres of life; when you will get this you will be able to read it in more detail.

So, our country for the last 40 years has been struggling with this and partly because of this gap, the cultural gap, partly because it is not in our Constitution. So there has always been an attempt to bring it into development planning, into policy and somehow there is always something that doesn’t hold. That is why we think it is important that it is in the Constitution so we can carry it forward as a Constitutional issue rather than as a development option.

We have several documents and I will just go over them quickly. One of them is Sessional Paper No.10 of 1965, that is African Socialism and its application to planning in Kenya. I think many of you are familiar with this and essentially what this Paper does is, it affirms the values, the African values in the first part of the Paper, which is African Socialism. When it comes to application it is another story, because what they talk about in application does not really carry over and this is not an unusual situation because we also have other ideas, other ideologies which have come up among them: negritude, which was Pan African, African authenticity which came from the Congo, Ujamaa of Tanzania and African Renaissance which has now come out of South Africa and is taking up, but essentially it is the same kind of ideas, that we have an African world and an African ideology which we should include in all spheres of life. The most fundamental tenets of African socialism in Sessional Paper No. 10 are outlined as:-

1. The economic, social and political development of Kenya will be guided by and on the basis of African socialism;

2. Control on use of resources will be selected and designed to promote African tradition of mutual social responsibility in Kenya’s development;

3. Africanization of the economy: that is, the system of African socialism must draw on the base of African traditions and personnel and the African traditions here encompassed are:-

Page 11 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM (a) Political democracy - this is one of them which is equality, protection of minorities, freedom of expression, devoid of social status and checks and balances against excessive use of power.

(b) Mutual social responsibilities – members do their very best for each other, equal opportunities to all citizens, elimination of exploitation and discrimination and availability of social services such as education, medical care and social security. This particular one I think many of you are familiar with, isn’t it? Many of you are familiar with Sessional Paper No. 10, so we are drawing on that one as part of our history and part of our ideology for culture.

There was a scholar who said it was neither African nor socialist and another one said it was neither socialist nor scientific, so there has been very many debates on this, but we see this as a good starting point. In our national development plans there has always being this urge to go to the community to plan with culture, to look at the African way of life, equity, self-reliance, to bring up the living standards of the people, increasing their skills and experience and always there has been a reference to culture. We have the mutual responsibility, voluntary self-help organizations, I think we are very familiar with these. Our self-help organizations are actually based on our culture. The participatory element all this comes up. So 1970 to 1974 we had the national plan which defined culture of people as: sum of knowledge, belief, organized action possessed by those people. They saw that Kenyans were heirs to a diverse cultural tradition which should be included in planning. Therefore institutions like the national archives were set up, the National Library Services, the National Museums of Kenya and the Kenya Cultural Center together with the drama school at the Kenya Cultural Center.

The recognition of the richness of the arts comes up, but the problem with this, as with other plans, is that the aspirations are there but the implementation now doesn’t come through as it should. Also the same with other plans like the one of 2002, which also has that aspiration but doesn’t really get there. Presently there is a draft cultural policy document from the department of culture, and it too follows the UNESCO definition of culture. It follows on what has gone on before, and deals with religion where there is freedom, social organization to establish a cohesive

Page 12 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM nation, in which cultural diversity does not jeopardize its national unity and cultural identity. The family should be protected, that is what it says. Revive, develop and popularize traditional and modern games and sports. A recognition that Kenya is a multicultural and multi-ethnic society that requires cultural policy that recognizes its diversity. It deals with other issues like food and drink, language. It says traditional languages should be developed and other issues there and even Kiswahili should go into IT. Here we have a number of issues which can be read when we get that document.

On media and TV they have proposed that 50% of the programs should be culturally oriented. I think the government has proposed 20% now but the draft cultural policy says 50% on TV and radio, and encourage community based culturally oriented and high professional quality broadcasting programs. Print media also takes on this - that there should be documentaries, dairies and maps and also the Copyright Act should recognize the freedom of expression.

They have cultural institutions, and it says that it is the protection and promotion of institutions which promote African culture and values. They propose a national council for cultural affairs, which should be there to coordinate cultural development in the country. They even propose the national award scheme to honour and recognize outstanding artists and other persons in the cultural sector. Tourism is also dealt with there, national dress and costume are addressed, that we should promote this and support it. Traditional medicine is also brought up in that draft policy.

We have culture, linguistic, diversity and language policy, we have tried very hard to deal with the language policy in this country and we still are at crossroads. Ngugi wa Thiong’o states that language as culture is the collective memory bank of a people’s experience in history. To Ngugi every language has two aspects: one aspect is its role as an agent that enables us to communicate with one another in our struggle to find the means of survival. The other is its role as a carrier of history and the culture built into the process of that communications over time. Those two aspects are inseparable and have a dialectical unity.

We have many issues on languages. I think probably many of you have heard ideas about language also, but here we have that in other countries they have taken language in different

Page 13 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM ways Some countries like Switzerland recognize all the four languages that are spoken there as national languages. How does this happen? A major language in a given country according to Ferguson is a language which has one or more of the following characteristics: it is spoken as a native language by more than 25% of the population or by more than one million people. It is an official language for the nation. It is the language of education of over 50% of the secondary school graduates of the nation. A minor language in this definition is the language spoken as a native language by no more than 25% of the population and by either more than 5% or more than 100,000 people. It is a medium of instruction above the first years of primary schools, having textbooks other than primary texts published in it. There are many issues on language there, but I think we recognize that we have many languages and therefore we would need to make a decision on this, we are not the only ones on the continent, but we would need to make a decision on this.

In the current constitution English is recognized as the official language and Kiswahili as the national language and I think this Conference will also make decisions about the draft constitution. Language brings about national unity and should be seen as that and especially in a country like ours which has linguistics diversity which presents a challenge and this Conference, I think, can also deal with that.

The education system is connected with language, how you teach, what you teach and so you cannot just leave it hanging there, it must be somewhere in the medium of instruction. It is also connected even with the religion and religious delivery of messages and so forth. A language policy is central to the whole cultural debate. It cannot be avoided, sometimes you have tended to avoid it.

Let us look at some of the language policy in planning in multi-linguistic settings. In the case of India, it has more than 1,600 languages and there is a kind of policy of assimilation through its colonial education system in the 18 th hundreds, but there are 200 classified languages spread throughout the country. So in keeping with other people we don’t need to see ourselves as people who are in a unique situation, and sometimes actually ours is moderate. In Tanzania they chose the Lingua Franca Kiswahili which was already even used by the Germans, but they made a decision at Independence time that this would be a language which they would use. I think you

Page 14 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM are familiar with this situation and they have like the National Swahili Council of Tanzania to promote the development and usage of the Swahili language throughout the United Republic, to cooperate with other bodies in the United Republic which are concerned in promoting the Kiswahili language and to endeavour to coordinate their activities, to encourage the use of Kiswahili language in the conduct of official, business and public life generally, to encourage the achievement of high standards in the use of Swahili language and to discover its misuse. To cooperate with the authorities concerned in establishing standard Swahili translations of technical terms, to publish a Swahili newspaper or magazine concerned with the Swahili language and literature and to provide service to the Government public authorities and individual authorities writing in Kiswahili with respect to Kiswahili language. I think this is our neighbour and we know much more experientially about what goes on in Tanzania than probably what is even written down.

The problem with language is the globalization element which is a very nice word for what we have gone through in colonialism and neocolonialism, so that now if we must make a decision it must be a decision based on what we want, not necessarily what has been handed down to us through the colonial system. If that also fits it is fine, but we need to do this so that we can deal with communication technologies, household use, common usage and also in the media and film. Because there is the element of globalization and culture, and we have to deal with it and sift through it and see what is fitting for us and what is not. So that we have a situation where we don’t have a hegemony, one aspect of the human race ruling over all the others. There is an atlas of the world’s languages in danger of disappearing; there is actually such a follow-up that there are languages which are disappearing and that in about 200 years’ time there will be very few which will be remaining. I don’t know who would like to give up their language, but it would be important to resist this. We have much more there on language which I will leave for you to read when you get the document.

Part two of our document deals with culture in international policy and law. We have many things here which we will deal with as we go on but we have an aspect of the conceptualization that we dealt with which was called multi-culturalism. Multi-culturalism is the new approach to cultural diversity and nearly all the countries are handling this and are dealing with them in such a way that you do not lose, it is a win-win situation, you do not lose out. I think South Africa,

Page 15 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Australia, and Sweden are cited as the ones at the forefront. Nonetheless, I would like to say that in our situation, we can actually do something much better than those particular countries are doing.

I think I will now just give you an overview of the legislation that we have in Kenya on culture. We have The Adjudicature Act which has several legislations but probably the most important one on African culture is the one that says that African Customary Law in civil cases be a source of law so long as it is not repugnant to justice and morality or inconsistent with written law. Now, part of the problem here that we dealt with as a Task Force was, “What is repugnant?” because when you look at it from the point of view of the Adjudicature which is informed by English Law, there could be aspects which are repugnant, but then these are the people who would find you face repugnant, your colour repugnant, your hair repugnant, your nose is repugnant. So, we saw that we have to look at this much, much more but at the same time as we said, we will get rid of the negative harmful and the discriminatory aspects of African Customary Law.

So, we have in The Adjudicature Act such a provision, their doctrines of equality which also come through; we have several Acts which come up, the Magistrate’s Courts Act, the Public Archives, the Penal Code, Criminal Procedure Act, Witchcraft, Chang’aa Prohibition, that is Cap 70, Statistics, Traditional Liquour Order Legislation which you are really familiar with. The newest one of these is the Children’s Act, which really is in tandem with what we have in the Draft Bill and we have also on Marriage and I think we are familiar with this. So, we have several pieces of legislation which we can look at and particularly the Technical Committee can look at and deal with, including Technology, and Antiquities, Law of Succession, Hindu Marriage and Divorce, Mohammedan Marriage, Divorce and Succession, Subordinate Courts - All that is in the present aw and we have put it together for you.

Lastly, I want to very quickly deal with the provisions which are found in other constitutions because we do not live in an island. When we went to their Swaziland Embassy to find their Constitution, they told us, ‘but you people do not have culture’, because they have kept their traditional culture as you have seen. So they have the Act on the King, the Act on the

Page 16 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Nklombokazi, the Great She-Elephant, and all their governance is informed by their culture. Their official languages are Swazi and English.

Chapter 15 is dedicated to Traditional Institutions. The whole Chapter on Traditional Institutions is for application of these provisions, it is provided that they shall not apply in respect of any custom that is, and to the extent that it is inconsistent with provision of the Constitution or a statute and so forth.

Uganda also has this:

a) the directives provide that the State shall promote and preserve those cultural values and practices which enhance the dignity and well-being of Ugandans;

b) encourage the development, preservation and enrichment of all Ugandan languages;

c) promote the development of sign language for the deaf: and

d) encourage the development of a national language or languages.

In their case, it is a bit different from us because Kiswahili has not taken up as well as it has here.

South Africa also has a situation where from the very beginning they have a Chapter on Language in which they have eleven languages, nine of which are indigenous. Maybe, I should not say that about South Africa lest I get into problems, but nine of them are African and so in a way it is modelled according to that cultural divide of languages. It provides for the cultural, religious and linguistic communities. It specifically provides that persons belonging to a cultural, religious, or linguistic community may not be denied the right with other members of that community. It goes more like our Draft Constitution now to enjoy their culture, practice their religion and use their language, and to form, join and maintain cultural, religious and linguistic associations and organs of a society.

Page 17 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Now, we have also the Gambia. The Gambia Constitution in the Bill of Rights, guarantees the right of every person to enjoy, practice, profess, maintain and promote any culture, language, tradition, religion, subject to the terms of the Constitution.

Namibia, the Constitution of Namibia provides in Article 19 that every person shall be entitled to enjoy, practice, profess, maintain and promote any culture, language, tradition, religion, subject to the terms of this Constitution and so forth.

We have other states here like Albania, which affirm their language. Ethiopia is a case study; I have been reliably informed by Dr. Were in Cultural Identity in the sense that they have Article 91 on Cultural Objectives. But even before that, their Constitution is based on ethnic diversity, so it is usually called Ethnic Federalism and they have the political rights, economic rights, social rights and cultural rights as the pillars of their Constitution. So, what we have cited here is just part of it, what is in a particular Article, but it is really something which is quite extensive in their culture. Then they have the responsibility of the State to protect and promote the equal development of customs and cultures in-so-far as they are not inconsistent and this is a very important part that everybody says that human rights, human dignity, democracy and the Constitution cannot be compromised because of the customs, it cannot be inconsistent. The State and all Ethiopian citizens shall have the duty to preserve the natural resources and historical heritage. The State shall have the duty within the limit of its resources to promote the arts, sciences and technology. Article 5 provides for the languages, that all languages shall enjoy equal State recognition and that Hamaric is the working language of the Federal Government. Members of the Federation may by law determine their respective working languages.

We have Italy there also, we have cited Ghana and India, which I have referred to, Lesotho, Liberia.

Nigeria says that:

a) The State shall protect and promote Nigerian cultures which enhance human dignity and are consistent with the fundamental objectives as provided in the Chapter and then

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b) Encourage the development of technological and scientific studies which enhance cultural values.

We have Vietnam, Cambodia and Leos which in their Preamble first of all, pay tribute to their glorious civilizations which have been trampled on in recent years. So, they re-claim their civilization, philosophy and that which they see as indigenous and glorious. These three countries, perhaps because of the wars they have fought with Imperialism, find that their culture has to be upheld so that it shall be national, modern and humanistic and that it shall inherit and promote the values of the cultures of all nationalities in Vietnam, the thought, the morality, the style of ----- ( inaudible) , the quintessence of human culture and that all creative talent among people shall be developed to the full. Cambodia also does the same and talks about preserving ancient monuments, artifacts and restoring historical sites.

Canada has provided in its Constitution a statute that contains the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Under this Charter, English and French are recognized as the official languages of Canada. However, citizens of Canada have to do what applies to their situation, but we must say with the Canadian and the US Constitutions, there is a major problem because the indigenous people have been totally marginalized and largely eliminated. In our case we are the indigenous people, so we cannot now decide to eliminate ourselves. You see here Canada says that there are two languages, what happens to the others, of the --(inaudible) and the Indians in Canada? In fact, in this particular respect, the American Constitution is probably the most efficient on this issue because it does not take on the culture of the indigenous people but leaves it out. In fact, they are put in reserves and left untaxed and living on their own.

That is what I will present to you now but probably at the end I might talk to you little bit about what we found out in the neighbouring country which has been cited here, more on how the workings go beyond the Constitution and the application of it. I would like to introduce Com. Salome to talk on the views, which we heard from the people.

Com. Salome Muigai : Thank you very much Commissioner Kavetsa Adagala for that introduction.

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Kenyans gave their views to CKRC on various aspects of life as they relate to culture. The historical and the present political, economic, social and cultural factors influenced the views that were expressed to us. Kenyans agreed, as Ms. Kavetsa has said that the colonial experience greatly demeaned culture in its bid to impose a foreign political, legal and social order to an extent that the Kenyans had come to regard our cultures as retrogressive, backward and incapable of being incorporated in the modern society. The recognition and acquisition of our culture as a good order when applied today with modification and needs to take root in the country through the Constitution. But in addition to having an indigenous Constitution, we need a different mindset so that we guard against short-changing our own culture in favour of a foreign one.

Kenyans also understood clearly that traditional African societies are governed by political and socio-cultural norms that are well known and observed even if they are un-coded. The main purpose of such norms is to maintain social order. These norms are the forerunners of the modern Constitution and therefore Kenyans felt that ours should also inform our Constitution. The views that Kenyans gave us are divided in this presentation into sets, about eighteen sections and these are just for reasons of presentation, they do not serve any other purpose. The first topic that we will look at is ethnicity.

Some Kenyans felt that ethnicity should be discouraged. The integration of all cultural groups should be encouraged and drama festivals should be used to harmonize ethnic diversities. The Constitution should establish a national advisory board of elders to forge a unity of diversity. The Constitution should establish all ethnic groups which form Kenya as a nation so that nobody feels left out. All Kenyans should be taught national patriotism to wipe out ethnocentrism and tribalism as explained by the previous speaker. Ethnicity should be used to harmonize our cultural values and traditions but not to be used as a basis for discrimination. Seminars should be organized to enlighten people of ethnical diversities so that we are each informed by the others culture.

The Constitution should ban all tribal names given to districts to allow for neutrality. Some people felt and differed with others on some aspects. For example, we were told at one place

Page 20 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM that the Maasai ‘ manyattas ’ should be abolished, yet at another place we were also told that they should be protected by the Constitution. We were also told that cultural interests of Kuria should be taken care of. The Kuria Council of Elders should be recognized by the Constitution and the Merus also felt that ‘ Njuri Ncheke ’ should be part of the recognition of the Meru culture. Witchcraft should be banned, we were told. Some outdated cultural practices should be removed and retain the cultures of good morals. The mode of dressing, traditional practices and age sets or ‘ rikas ’ should be captured in the Constitution. Ethnic differences on clashes should be dealt with. How? Dialogue and peaceful conflict resolutions, through arbitration, should be immediately effected and find their space in our Constitution.

The Constitution should ban all tribal and ethnic organizations, we were told. Ethnic, district and provincial boundaries should be replaced with economic boundaries. The Constitution should set up a commission to unearth the tribalism factor in the Civil Service. The Constitution should alleviate tribalism, nepotism and racism in all aspects. We were also told that intermarriages should be promoted to end ethnicity. Ethnicity and discrimination should be discouraged to ensure unity in diverse and security of all persons and property. The Constitution should not promote cultural and ethnic diversity, we were told in another region. Favouritism and tribalism should be impeachable offences under the new Constitution dispensation. The Constitution should cement the forty-two tribes together to form a National culture.

On education, we were told the following. Recruitment into national institutions should be on the quota system to avoid ethnic bias. The Constitution should education as a means of creating national unity and building national heritage. Informal education by families, which is related to culture on morals and religion should be retained in the Constitution. Community rites should not be hampered by the State. Each community should be given a day to celebrate cultural events. Cultural events such as moranism should be outlawed, we were told and yet we were also told the sacred Maasai rites and sites should be protected. The Constitution should provide that the government enforce patent laws to safeguard the cultural practices of the Maasai and other communities against commercial agents copying of cultural materials and artifacts.

Supremacy of the people and sovereignty of the Constitution. No group should feel superior over the others and there is need to develop a national outlook to progress in this country. Each

Page 21 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM group of people needs to be given equal importance and recognition. Customary laws, cultures and traditions should not take precedence over legal structures.

Preservation and documentation of cultural practices. Cultural systems of sport and cultural dances should be documented for the benefit of future generations. The government should create an institution to enable all cultural backgrounds to be researched, documented and preserved with the original identity. The Constitution should establish an institution that will research, document and preserve all cultural backgrounds. Community, cultural museums and cultural heritage centers should be opened at localities all over the country to act as a supermarket for our cultural exhibitions.

The Constitution should provide for the establishment of district archives and museums, where material culture of the district inhabitants can be preserved. All indigenous groups in Kenya should be protected to guard them from extinction. The Constitution should facilitate the promotion of our cultures and its protection through such avenues as music, film, fashion designs, artwork, architecture and any other modes.

Judiciary: traditional oaths should be recognized in the Constitution. Oath of office should be administered traditionally. When swearing in public officers, traditional oathing practices should be used and yet we were also told that oath taking should be forbidden. The Constitution should allow every community to have an independent court of elders to preserve their culture. A commission should be established to recommend against the unnecessary laws. The Constitution should give legal recognition to practices and unwritten customs within our society especially those that promote fairness and equality. Women adulterers, we were told, should forfeit some of the dowry just like men.

The breech of communal guidelines and rules should be left to the competent elders to arbitrate. Their decision should not be overruled by a court of law. The Constitution should reserve culture norms associated with adultery and cohabitation because they ensure morality was upheld. Positive forms of traditional punishments should be upheld and rural people should be required to leave a will behind that should supercede the customary requirements, we were told in another region. Forced wife inheritance should be considered a crime. Action should be taken

Page 22 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM against men who inherit women for exploitative reasons. Traditional cultures and traditions that are acceptable to communities and are allowed by the law should be promoted in the Constitution. The Constitution should provide that each tribal list of customs and traditions be incorporated into law.

Media: The public media should air African programs and do away with the European operas of the present.

National goals and values: Peace, harmony and unity should be captured in the Constitution. The Constitution should specify cultural values from our collective experience such as respect of elders, women, payment of dowry, land boundaries and social life values. The Constitution should reflect on the diverse social and cultural diversities and ensure that there is no conflict between national unity and tribal autonomy. Our common belief in God should be captured in the Constitution.

Female Genital Mutilation: Those who practice FGM should be severely punished, we were told. FGM should not be practiced because of the health reasons, others told us. And yet the Constitution, we were advised should allow Kisiis to circumcise their children as per their tradition. Traditional behaviours in every community should be respected, we were told and this includes circumcision of both male and female in Kisiiland. The Constitution should respect Kenyan cultures, which include female circumcision.

Languages: Kenyan sign language should be made a national language. Besides English and Kiswahili, the nation should be divided into five zones: Kiswahili for the Coast; North Rift Valley should have Kalenjin; Western should have Luo; North Eastern should have Somali. Each of these languages should be taught ( Murmurs ) Indigenous languages are ways through which, as Commissioner Kavetsa said, specific tribal groups express cultural affiliations. For this reason, the use of indigenous languages should be promoted and protected. The Constitution should recognize and promote indigenous languages, they should be left to grow. All books should be translated into local languages.

Page 23 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Local languages should be acknowledged, but not necessarily promoted, others felt. Mother tongue should take center stage to educate the children in the primary up to standard six. Kiswahili should be the national language, while English remains the official language. Indigenous languages should be recognized as a way of passing information and communication. The Constitution should be written in local languages. The government should establish a national language-training center where indigenous languages can be taught. The Constitution should not promote indigenous languages, we were told by others. Only Kiswahili should be recognized as the national language. Instructions at primary level of school should be administered in various indigenous languages. Kenyan styles of languages and music tradition should be among ethnic values captured in the Constitution, others felt.

Material Culture: Traditional culture of various communities of Kenya should be protected. People should be sensitized to learn about traditional medical care and technology including pottery and indigenous foods. Herbal medicine should be promoted in the Constitution. Cultural rights which are not repugnant to justice and morality should be implemented. Positive aspects of the cultures of Kenya’s diverse communities should be incorporated into the Constitution. The government should check the smuggling of the country’s cultural materials and introduce high levies of such materials to develop a national reservoir.

Minorities: Waswahili should be regarded as an ethnic group as they have their own cultural identity, we were told at the Coast. The Constitution should guarantee and protect the rights of the minority tribes such as Lembus, Nubians, Dorobo, Ogiek, Mandi and Terik amongst others.

Traditions: The Constitution should guarantee protection of culture and specify progressive cultural promotion. The traditional aspect of a woman marrying another woman should be discouraged ( Clapping ). Original cultures should be maintained. Widows and widowers should be protected against harassment from relatives. The Constitution should protect against the discriminatory aspects of culture e.g. FGM, wife inheritance, bride price, inheritance of land and resources by boys and men only, which have excluded the girls and women. The widows should have the right to decide whether to remarry or not.

Page 24 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM The Constitution should protect the Kenyan traditions that promote equality and fairness, as said before. Permanent communal boundaries of land should be established to reduce tribal clashes. Traditional practices such as removal of teeth and female circumcision should be retained and protected. Men should not be allowed to wear women’s dresses and vice versa. ( Clapping ) There is a discussion on the high table on who is wearing a woman’s dress. ( Laughter ) The culture of feasting and dancing should be discouraged, during funerals. Traditions must be respected and people from the same clan should not marry.

The Constitution should draw a balance whereby the negative cultures do not unnecessarily hinder, harm or act as an obstacle to people especially women and girls, and they should be allowed to enjoy their inalienable human rights and development. Certain aspects of our culture such as traditional dances, weapons, foods and marriage ceremonies should be recognized by the Constitution. Traditional culture and customs of different ethnic groups, wife inheritance, bride price, inheritance of land and resources by boys and men only which have excluded the girls and women. The widows should have the right to decide whether to re-marry or not. The Constitution should protect the Kenyan traditions that promote equality and fairness as said before. Permanent communal boundaries of land should be established to reduce tribal clashes. Traditional practices such as removal of teeth and female circumcision should be retained and protected. Men should not be allowed to wear women dresses. And vice versa

There is a discussion on the high table on who is wearing a woman’s dress. The culture of feasting and dancing should be discouraged during funerals. Traditions must be respected and people from the same clan should not marry. The Constitution should draw a balance whereby the negative cultures do not unnecessarily hinder, harm, or act as an obstacle to people especially women and girls and they should be allowed to enjoy their inalienable human rights and development.

Certain aspects of our cultures such as traditional dances, weapons, food and marriage ceremonies should be recognized by the Constitution. Traditional culture and customs of different ethnic groups should be recognized as long as they are not repugnant and Commissioner Kavetsa has talked of repugnancy and its definition.

Page 25 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Governance and representation: The Ministry of culture and social services should enhance its efforts to promote the peoples culture. e.g., by encouraging cultural entertainment.

Tribal rights should be recognized so that nomination of candidates for elective posts is done by respective tribes. All ethic groups should be represented in parliament. No candidate to Parliamentary elections should be discriminated against due their to tribal background. Police recruitment should be done from each tribe. All those who seek elective positions should be indigenous people of the area and should speak the indigenous language.

Family and Marriage: Certificates of marriage should be issued for customary marriages. The Government should substitute the modern ways of family planning with the traditional ones. Families should be encouraged to use their clan names to preserve cultural diversity in Kenya. African family values should be captured in the Constitution. The Constitution should protect the issues of dowry and marriage. The Constitution should outlaw marriage between men or between women. The traditional marriage initiation to manhood or womanhood, recognition of a man as the head of a family and woman as the helper should be included in the Constitution. Elsewhere we were told that women should be involved in the issuance and distribution of dowry.

Compensation: The Constitution should protect and promote the cultural concept of the compensation of fines paid by men or women who commit adultery and this compensation should go to the spouses of those whom they have committed adultery with.

On Mau Mau freedom fighters, Political detainees should be taken care of by this Constitution.

Traditional Brews: Traditional brews should be allowed for traditional practices that go with them. The Constitution should allow brewing of traditional brews by local communities. The Constitution should recognise local brews as sources of entertainment, as well as income.

Intellectual Property Rights: Traditional Intellectual Property rights should be institutionalized under the realm of traditional diversity.

Page 26 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM All herbalists in a region should show proof of running established medicinal arboretum upon which they should be registered and licensed. Laws should be enacted to guide cultural values. Traditional medicine men, women and their drugs should be protected, promoted and allowed to serve as curative measure for Kenyans.

Places with cultural values should be gazetted and protected. In Summary the Kenyans want to see the following:-

Recognition and equality of all cultures, harmonization of the differentials to ensure unity and diversity, highlighting of the commonalities of the Kenyan Communities, need to look within and without our boundaries in order to address the regional participation as well as globalization.

Protection of minorities: this will include an audit on rights of children, people with disabilities, girls and women, the elderly in the present day context, and the rights of widows and orphans within the reality of such modern calamities as HIV/ Aids. In other word, we as Kenyans need to establish a thread that runs through what was, what is and more importantly, the future we all desire for this country and for ourselves. Thank you, Honourable Delegates.

Hon Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much, Honourable Delegates. At this juncture, we would like to adjourn for tea as we digest the very, very heavy cultural views that were give by our people. We will reconvene at 11.30.

After Tea

Hon Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: We will begin in two minutes, so let us settle down please. I will now-- Order, order, Delegates. Please settle down. Commissioner Kavetsa, please proceed from where we left.

Com. Kavetsa Adagala : We are now proceeding if you could give me your ears including Honourable Angwenyi; Honourable Angwenyi, we are presenting. If you could settle down, we are presenting, please.

Page 27 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Can we please have order.

Com. Kavetsa Adagala: Excuse me, we have a section here-- Delegates do I have your ears?

Hon. Delegates : Yes

Com. Kavetsa Adagala: Do I have your ears?

Hon. Delegates : Yes

Com. Kavetsa Adagala: Thank you. Honourable Angwenyi, give us a chance. We have an analysis of Social Cultural Profiles. In the late 1980’s the Institute of African Studies carried out district Social Cultural profiles. They carried them out in ten districts, one in every province and I believe Rift Valley had two.

Hon Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Order, Honourable Delegates, the Presenter is unable to present with you talking. Please give her your ears.

Hon. Delegate Khalwale Bonny Bosire: Point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Hon Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Point of order, Honourable Delegate 052? Honourable Delegate 052, you have the floor.

Hon. Delegate Khalwale Bonny Bosire. Mr. Chairman, my name is Dr. Bonny Khalwale, I am Delegate No. 052 and Member of Parliament for Ikolomani. Mr. Chairman, you notice that there is a lot of unrest. Mr. Chairman the reason is that we are now discussing a very important chapter about the African Culture and one of prominent abuser of the African Culture has been allowed to come in to the hall.

Com. Kavetsa Adagala: Y ou should not allow that.

Page 28 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Khalwale Bonny Bosire: Mr. Chairman, could you tell us in what capacity this lady has been allowed to come into this hall, because we are not children? Mr. Speaker, if it is out of order, she must be ordered to leave the hall so that we maintain the dignity of the African man (Applause).

Hon Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. Order, order, I would like to respond to that. There are many people who have come here on various occasions with different invitations, I will take this opportunity--

Hon. Delegates : No!

Ho. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Sorry, just listen, I am not aware under which invitation she is here and I am going to investigate and take the necessary action.

Hon. Delegates : No way!

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Honourable Delegate 015.

Hon. Delegate Billow Kerrow: Mr. Chairman, I am Delegate number 015, Honourable Billow Kerrow of Mandera Central. Mr. Chairman first and foremost, I think there are rules and guidelines governing this Conference. I do not think in any Conference like this you would change the rules immediately. I do not understand when we are discussing culture, such a fundamental issue that Honourable Khalwale has mentioned, somebody who has done nothing but abuse the fundamentals of African culture can be entertained. I believe, Chairman, this is an attempt to drag this Conference and to derail it. Could we have instructions while you search for the answer for her to be told to step outside while you find out the answer? And we demand that before we proceed.

Hon. Delegates : Yes!

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Delegates, order. 231.

Page 29 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Kitambi Mwalimu Digore : Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman, do I have your attention, Mr. Chairman?

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Yes.

Hon. Delegate Kitambi Mwalimu Digore: Thank you, Mr. Chairman for giving me this opportunity. My name is Mwalimu Digore from Kwale and I stand to say, Mr. Chairman, that it is very unfortunate that an Honourable Delegate here alluded that it is an insult for this Honourable gracious lady to walk in here, yet we are talking about culture and we are talking about a culture that is modernizing. We are not talking about ancient culture! No! We are talking about culture that is moving on with time. We are talking about assimilation. We are talking about-- (murmurs and noise.)

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Okay, order.

Hon. Delagate Kitambi Mwalimu Digore: Mr. Chairman, I think I have made my point.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Order, order, I was asked to find out how the lady is here and I have information that she is an Observer and has not broken any rule, that she is procedurally here and so we shall continue.

Hon. Delegates : No.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Commissioner Kavetsa, please lets continue .

Com. Kavetsa Adagala: Can I continue? Okay continuing with our presentation--

Hon. Delegates : No, no!

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Order, order, may I ask for your indulgence. Delegates, Honourable Delegates, we have to have order, in order to continue. I am aware that you are not happy with her presence--

Page 30 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM

Hon. Delegates : Yes.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: --but at the same time, I am also aware that she is a citizen of this Country and she has a right to be here--

Hon. Delegates : Yes!

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: --so we are torn in between and we have to tolerate each other. Please I indulge on those who are intolerant to kindly tolerate the presence of those who we don’t like in this Conference.

Hon. Delegates : Yes.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Constitution making is not an easy thing. You will have to tolerate each other even when we don’t like each other. So please let us tolerate each other in order to come up with a good Constitution.

Com. Kavetsa Adagala: May I continue?

Hon. Delegates: No! (Noise & mummurs)

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Just to remind you, Honourable Delegates, we have rules and regulations that are guiding us here. Rule number 8 subsection (2) states this: “The Commission may invite any person or group of persons to attend the proceedings of the Conference as Observers or guests for each period and in respect of such deliberations as it may deem fit”. And so please, let uss close that debate and continue with the presentations.

Com. Kavetsa Adagala : The District Social Cultural Profiles - I will shorten this now - looked at different spheres of life and these include philosophy of life, which refers to the Preamble, the sovereignty of the people, the National goals, values and Principles. Also we have political organization which is very important to us and that is the Executive, Legislature, devolution and

Page 31 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Judiciary. It is important to keep this in mind, that culture is a cross cutting issue in the Draft Bill. Social Organization includes inter-generational relations, gender relations and division of labour.

The Judicial system and the arbitration, crime, punishment and representation, socialization and education, that is the initiation and learning. The Economy, land property, environments and natural resources. So when the Committee is dealing with this, they will be able to look at that so that they introduce it. Thank you very much.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Order, order 055, point of order.

Hon. Delegate George Khaniri: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am Delegate No. 055, Honourable Khaniri Member of Parliament for Hamisi. Mr. Chairman, I think you can see the mood of the house. Mr. Chairman Sir, I think we are setting a very, very bad presence. Tomorrow we are going to invite homosexuals here and we are going to use the same excuse to allow them to be here. Mr. Chairman, I think we are not going to continue until this matter is resolved. Thank you.

Hon. Delegates: Yes.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: 251.

Hon. Delegate Hubbie Hussein Al-Haji: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to express my sentiments about what is happening. What we are doing is un-African. Wambui has done nothing wrong.

Hon. Delegates : Yes.

Hon. Delegate Hubbie Hussein Al-Haji: There are those who are land grabbers here, there are those who have enhanced massacres within the community and there are gays and lesbians within this hall. We don’t see why Wambui is being harassed over no reason.

Page 32 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegates: Yes.

Hon. Delegate Hubbie Hussein Al-Haji: This is gender discrimination and we cannot stand it. We are here to correct historical injustice and we are here for the sake of minorities. We should not be harassing Wambui. Thank you very much.

Hon. Delegates : (Murmurs).

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Order, order. Honourable Delegates, you will have an opportunity to express your views after we make the presentation, if this is what you want.

Hon. Delegates: No.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: You can clearly see that our views are divided even on our issues just as they are divided on our issues of culture. So please let us give ourselves an opportunity to express our views on culture. I will now call upon Commissioner Zein to give us his presentation.

Com. Abubakar Zein Abubakar: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I beg this forum of distinguished and Honourable members of this National Conference to give me a hearing and allow me to make reference to the issue which is diving us on many points of order. If you give me a hearing, you will hear what I have to say.

If mama Wambui Otieno’s presence here raises the question--

Hon. Delegates: No!

Com. Abubakar Zein Abubakar: Wait, what raises a cultural question, many people have said it raises a cultural question, what better opportunity to discuss this than in her presence?

Hon. Delegates : Yes.

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Com. Abubaker Zein Abubakar: If you disagree with her on her personal life from a cultural, perspective, why don’t you wait until your turn comes for you to make a contribution on culture to make that point? Give me a hearing and I am saying this with a lot of humility and begging because it is my turn to present an important aspect of this Task Force work. Some people do not see Mama Wambui Otieno from the Cultural perspective of whom she married but as a freedom fighter. So please, please I am begging you give a chance for us to finish the presentation on culture, then you will have your say for today, tomorrow or the day after. We are your servants and we will obey your orders (Uproar) . Do you give me the right to make a presentation? Can I with a lot of humility, can you kindly allow me to make the last parts of the presentation on the findings of the cultural Task Force. (Uproar) Mr. Chairman.

Honourable Delegates : No, no.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Honourable Delegates, we are faced with a very difficult situation here, but at the same time I realize that it is not, because all of us have rights and we should not violate any individual’s rights (Uproa). We are here to form a Constitution and the Constitution we are forming, we are going make a very bad precedent by coming here to violate a human right, a constitutional right of an individual, yet we are purporting to be making a Constitution. On this account please let us allow Commissioner Zein to make his presentation.

Com. Abubakar Zein Abubakar : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make the following background knowledge about the Cultural Task Force findings. It is very important for us first and foremost to know that this paper will be given to each and every member of this House, and also that when we are discussing the findings of the Cultural Task Force, it will be absolutely important ( Uproar) .

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Honourable Delegates, I think we are not communicating so at this juncture, I would like to adjourn for 10 minutes as we look into this matter.

Page 34 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM The meeting was adjourned at 12.15 p.m and reconvened at 12.30 p.m.

Hon. Delegate Bonaya Godana: Delegates, take up your seats. Honourable Delegates, take up your seats. Delegates please take up your seats. Order! Delegates please take up your seats. Mr. Shakeel, Mr. Cheruiyot, Delegates please take up your seats. Honourable Delegates please take up your seats. Those Delegates who are standing in the middle of the hall, Please move to your seats. Order! Order! Mr. Shakeel please lead the way, move to your seats. Honourable Munya, please move to your seats, lead the way. Order! Order! Honourable Delegates, Honourable Delegates, silence please. Honourable Delegates, please take up your seats, we are starting the presentation of Commissioner Abubakar. So those who want to hear, and we presume everybody here wants to hear the presentations.

Com. Ababukar Zein Abubakar: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman, Honourable Delegates, we are presenting the last part of the Task Force findings on culture. The first point we would like to establish is that in establishing cultural rights, we looked at.

An Honourable Delegate : Point of Order.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : This could be another attempt and I would ask you not to play into the hands of any individual or individuals trying to do so. And for this reason, I am indulging you to tolerate each other and kindly allow us to continue.

Com. Abubakar Zein Abubakar : Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. When we were presenting the Task Force Report, we said that the last part of the presentation which I am making is the one which deals with the recommendations of the Task Force, both general and specific. I would like first of all to make a few comments before I go to the principles and recommendations.

The first one is that when we were going through our work in the Task Force we had to do many things including doing an audit on international instruments, which have a relation to aspects of culture. Some of the instruments that we looked at include the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, The Universal Declaration on Human Rights, The African

Page 35 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Charter on Human and People’s Rights, and the Convention concerning the protection of the World’s Cultural and Natural Heritage. It is very important also to say that from the experience my fellow Commissioners have related to you, concerning how other countries have dealt with the concept of culture in their Constitution, there are many lessons to be learnt. One of them is, that for Kenya we need to think creatively, so that whatever provisions and the rights we want to establish – like cultural rights, they must become justifiable. Most of the other cultural rights provided for under other Constitutions, are provided for in the Chapter of Directive Principles of State Policy, and that has a legal definition and has problems in how and if they can be enforced or implemented. Allow me to say that by tomorrow each and every delegate hopefully will be able to get a copy of this report.

We are still working hard to get this report in circulation, so please bear with us. When you get that report, you will find out that general recommendations are established on page 101. Now allow me to go through some of the principles and thematic areas we have identified as the most crucial, as far cultural rights and provisions are concerned. Before I do that, allow me also to tell you that we had to consider how these provisions will be included in the Constitution. There were those who were saying that we should have a separate Cultural Chapter. There were those who said that because of the crosscutting nature of culture, we will need to do two things.

1. We will need to mainstream it. 2. We will need to establish special mechanisms and devices, which will then give life to these provisions.

Now we adopted the latter, the second approach, which is: one, to mainstream it, and two, to establish mechanisms and devices, which will then make the cultural rights come alive and be operational. The first principle in the general recommendation is that we as a Nation should recognize and respect all Kenyan communities. This is a principle which if established, will be expanded to include identification and acceptance of all communities. When we were collecting views from majority of Kenyans, many communities and many groups came to us and said to us that there are these mythical 42 communities of Kenya. They told us that, “we are not included in this mythical 42” You will recall some Delegates here alluding to the same fact and

Page 36 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM mentioning communities like the Ogiek community, the Malakote community, the Watta community, the Munyoyaya community, and I can go on and on and on.

I will come back to this theme towards the end of my presentation and show you that we made an effort to develop a schedule which defines who the peoples of Kenya. This is an effort and I would advisely tell you that you wait until I make the last presentation, so that you will not take me to task or take us to task or take the Task Force to task, that a certain community has been left out. Then in the recognition and respect of all communities, we must also agree on the equality of these communities. We must also agree on non-discrimination on any community. We also need to agree on the philosophy of inclusion so that each community feels that they belong to this beloved nation of ours.

The second principle is the right to manifest and practise. For those who have diligently read the Draft Bill, you will realize the right to manifest and practise has been catered for, but we felt as a Task Force also analyzing the views of Kenyans, that that particular article needs to be redrafted and expanded to include among others the right to maintain, protect and develop the past, present and future cultural manifestation. So this right would be transcending time, past, present and future. Secondly among other things, we need to recognize the right to observe, practice, reclaim customs, traditions, rituals, conventions, which will include dress code, food and so on and so forth.

The third principle, is the history and heritage. We need to expand the understanding of history and heritage to include the right to transmit to future generations, histories, languages, oral traditions, philosophies, writing and other community systems and literature. We also need to expand this understanding of cultural heritage to mean and to include monuments, artifacts, architectural works, elements of all structures of archeological nature, creative and artistic works, designs, inscriptions, caves and forest dwellings. You will remember the Ogiek people speaking in this forum and in the presentation to the Commission, saying that they define who they are partly by where they live in the forest. Therefore we are saying caves and forest dwellings should be recognized as part of the cultural heritage of the people of Kenya, and also to include other structures or features which are of outstanding value from the point of view of history, arts or science.

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We have indicated in this report that we will need to expand Article 63, also we will need to include in the interpretive section of the Constitution what culture is and what cultural heritage is.

Honourable Delegates, the fourth principle deals with historical and/or religious sites. I assure you, Honourable Delegates, we received many views on this issue. One of the issues we need to deal with in this principle is, recognition, respect, preservation, protection and promotion of religious, historical, sacred and archeological sites. To give you an example, when we went into Western Kenya around Bungoma District. The Dini ya Msambwa people came and told us our religion is not only marginalized and persecuted in the colonial times and history, but we still feel marginalized and persecuted even today, because we cannot even access some of the sacred sites which we have.

We also received views from Kenyans saying that sacred places like Churches and Mosques should not be violated by police or other people who have no business being there. Therefore, this recognition, respect, preservation, protection and promotion of religious and historical sites is important to all people.

The other issue we will need to deal with is acceptance of rights and claims including property rights, access and visitation and other rights. There are many communities who have told us that they have historical claims for instance to land. We have to have a mechanism to address that, not necessarily saying we accept them here, but there has to be a mechanism which deals with that. We were told by the Bukusu speaking people that when they are going through the ritual of circumcision of boys, they have problems and hindrance to visit certain holy places near the river, because they are not recognized that they have visitation rights to these places.

The other principle which is the fifth principle which we have to deal with, is intellectual property and knowledge. This is a cross-cutting issue through out the Constitution or aspects of the Constitution. You will recall that when we were dealing with the Chapter on Environment, one of the issues which was raised by a number of delegates, had to do with what happens to the indigenous knowledge and practices, that relate to environmental protection.

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Now, under intellectual property and knowledge, there are certain issues we need to deal with.

1. We need to cover indigenous and local knowledge and know how, including folklore, design, creative and performing arts, including song, music, dance, story-telling, stories, painting, sculptures and ceremonies, festivals, games and symbols. These can fall under the constitutional protection.

2. To include knowledge of scientific, agricultural, technical and ecological, including cultigens, medicines and sustainable use of flora and fauna, seeds and other bio-diversity. We have identified that we need to rework Article 14 and 63(a).

3. To include genetic material including DNA and tissue.

The sixth principle is the right to be involved in a national life. The argument of many communities of Kenyans have told us that if you give the first principle which is recognition and acceptance, that Kenya is made up of many different communities, and celebrating of this diversity must include the principle that every community has a right to be involved in the national life of Kenya. Under this we must consider that all communities should have equal opportunity in decision-making processes, particularly when decisions may affect them directly or indirectly, and we have identified some of the Articles that need re-working.

Two, that national institutions should reflect the national character of diversity of Kenya. Such institutions could be in education, in employment, recruitment into national institutions like the Police, the Armed Forces and Parliament, Judiciary, the Executive and so on and so forth.

Thirdly, measures including Affirmative Action should be used to redress past injustices and/or neglect.

The seventh principle, Mr. Chairman, is that although people want us to celebrate our diversity, they also say that we should develop a national culture, identity, values and symbols. These could be, in the views of Kenyans, could be a way of finding ways and means of reflecting our

Page 39 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM shared experience and values into a national culture. But they also want us to promote African and other Kenyan cultures, to promote Pan-Africanism and the integration of Africa, to start with East Africa, to establish national days that will be celebrated using Kenyan values, to safeguard and promote the National Anthem and Flag, to recognize and respect freedom fighters-past, present and future, and the future is not highlighted; to establish a heroes and heroine acre, to establish institutional framework to promote the national culture and shared values e.g. the Kenya Broadcasting Corporation, to affirm the use of African and other Kenyan values and symbols in national institutions including mode of dress or dress code in Parliament, in the judiciary and in other formal and national government functions; and for avoidance of doubt, they want the cultural dress codes to be highly promoted and encouraged including in this national institution.

The eighth principle, Mr. Chairman and Honourable Delegates, is the one to deal with family and marriage and I know a lot of people will listen to this carefully because this is one area where people made a lot of contribution and said, ‘you did not reflect this from a cultural perspective’. So one of the issues which was raised in this principle of family and marriage is that all marriages including cultural, religious and so on, should be recognized by law and issued with a marriage certificate, and many people told us ‘when we are married under African traditional context, we do not get certificates and we want that to be rectified’.

(2) Recognize marriage under any traditional system of religious personal law or family as it is indicated in Article (38). (3) Recognize marriage between individuals of opposite sex. (4) Outlaw same sex union, and (5) Recognize the extended family and its role as a social support system in the African context.

The ninth principle:- Cultural institutions, in this principle, we need to recognize (1) Recognize and facilitate the form and development of traditional institution. (2) Use strength of cultural institution and promotion of peace, negotiation and district settlements, solidarity and conflict resolution. (3) Strengthen and devolve national institutions that promote and preserve various aspects of culture for instance Museum’s, National Archive, Kenya Broadcasting Corporation, Kenya Cultural Centre and the Kenya National Library.

Page 40 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM The tenth principle, Mr. Chairman, is a designed principle. This designed principle assumes that, if you have accepted the principles that we should develop a national culture based on our shared experiences and values as a people, then you must have an institution mechanism or way of promoting this national culture. And one way of doing it, is the propagation to establish the national council for the promotion and protection of Kenyan cultural heritage. And we have indicated some of the functions that these national council for promotion and protection of cultural heritage in details. Allow me not to go into those details right now.

The eleventh principle is that of conflict management and resolution. We are proposing that, (1) under this principle of conflict management and resolution, we should encourage the use of traditional conflict resolution mechanisms where applicable. We were invited to examine the historical experience in Kenya where all other modern conflict resolution mechanism, have failed and people would go back to communities and ask elders from one community to meet elders from another community to resolve disputes. So people want this to be encouraged. (2) Allow alternative conflict resolution on civil matters where both parties consents and (3) Recognize the traditional oathing system in the judicial system.

Number twelve, is the principle dealing with media and we are suggesting that there need to be a new clause added. We are proposing a start of that institution framework to encourage a national culture that KBC be made an independent institution with constitution protection so as to act as a primary source of information on culture and national culture.

We also propose that they need to be legislative direction in governing licensing of media houses with requirements on criteria of local contents on culture and education and public welfare. Allow me to run through some of the formulations which will then summarize these principles which I have been going through.

1. That the formulation reads, “all Kenyan people cultural, linguistic and religious communities are equal”.

2. All Kenyan people’s cultural linguistic and religious communities have a right to manifest, practice and revitalize their cultural heritage. This includes the right to

Page 41 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM maintain, protect, and develop the past, present and future manifestations of their culture such as archeological and historical sights, material culture, design, ceremonies, knowledge, technologies and Visual and Performing Arts, literature, as well as the right of restitution of cultural, intellectual, religious and spiritual property taken without their free will and consent, all in violation of their laws, traditions and customs. And this last part is highly designed to facilitate Kenyan communities to reclaim some of the material culture which they have lost to colonial forces and other forces.

3. All Kenyan people’s cultural linguistic and religious communities have a right to gain directly from benefits arising from their cultural heritage which includes monument, archeological sites, historical sites, material culture, knowledge, designs, technologies, ceremonies and visual on performing Acts.

4. All Kenyan people’s cultural linguistic and religious communities have a right to have their sacred places including burial sites to be preserved, respected and protected.

5. All Kenyan people’s cultural, linguistic and religious communities have a right to revitalize, use, develop and transmit to future generations their histories, languages, oral traditions, philosophies, writing and other communicating systems, and literature and to designate and retain their own names for communities, places and practices.

6. All Kenyan people’s cultural, linguistic and religious communities have a right to establish and control cultural institutions at their own costs, this may include education institutions. These rights included the right to providing education in their own language and in a manner appropriate to their cultural methods of teaching and learning.

7. All Kenyan people’s cultural, linguistic and religious communities shall be respected and not be discriminated in any form.

8. No Kenyan people’s cultural, linguistic and religious community may be addressed by the pejorative and offensive types, stereo types or profile.

Page 42 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM These are the summary in a nutshell of the principles that we are proposing.

Allow me to go to the schedule which I had promised I will do and I want you to listen to me carefully and allow me the latitude in interpretation of what I am saying. People in Kenya have had a problem with the mixed 42 communities. Now, in order to give effects to the first principle which we said was recognition and acceptance, we must by the very nature of the principle, be able to tell how many communities exists in Kenya.

There are two ways of going about establishing that. The first one would be to establish an institutional framework through a legislative process in other words by an Act of Parliament, an institution which will be then charged with this research to identify how many communities exist in Kenya, ever existed in Kenya and may exist in the future. So the mechanism might allow for future development. That is the first way. Then there is another way. The other way is to try like in other constitutions like the Indian constitution, to have a schedule in the constitution, which defines all the people of Kenya. The problem with the second part which is developing a schedule, we could go into a big argument which exists even today. If we go through that process, some people might accuse us of the same crimes that the colonial forces committed against our people by marginalizing, changing names, merging some communities, and giving them a name. So, when I go through this list of the schedule, please bear in mind that we are not claiming that we have exhausted which communities exist in Kenya. So if there is a community which has been missed, please inform us, it has not been missed by design to marginalize that community. I do not know if that is clear. Thank you very much.

Let me go to these schedules. The schedule you will read, says the peoples of Kenya. The peoples of Kenya consist of diverse ethnic groups which can be broken down into three main ethno linguistic groups namely Bantu speaking people, Nilotic speaking people and Kushetic speaking people. These different people not only speak different languages but also occupy diverse archeological zones. The archeological diversity presupposes different modes of resource appropriation and utilization. The respective population groups are thus adopted each in their own unique ways to these zones. There are also other non African groups such as Kenyan Europeans, Kenyan Americans, Kenyans of Asian origin and Kenyan Arabs and so on.

Page 43 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM So let me read the Bantu-speaking group which is defined as the Western Bantu. So if you don’t find the Bantu from this one, you wait until I deal with the Eastern Bantu groups.

Now starting with alphabetically, Abaluhya, some people will tell us if you use the word Abaluhya you are compounding many different communities in one word, so allow me to articulate the different communities among the word used Abaluhya – Bukusu, Maragoli, Banyore, Idakho, Kisa, Marachi, Bakhayo, Banyala, Wanga, Bachoni, Isukha, Kabras, Marama, Tiriki, Samia.

Followed by Abagusi – there is a different community – Abakulhya, Suba. Central Bantu – Agikuyu, Akamba, Aembu, Ameru, and within the Ameru people we are also advised to articulate the nounses of the difference of the Ameru people. Aigembe, Atigania, Aimenti, Amwimbi, Amuthambi, Achuka, Amuthambi-Achuka-Atharaka.

And then go to the article of Ambere. And then come to the Coastal-Eastern Bantu, Waswahili, some people will find other nounses to just define Waswahili, Wabajuni, Wapati, Wamvita, Wavuba, Waosi, Wafudi, Wasim, Washera, Waamu.

The Miji Kenda group – The Digo, the Duruma, the Rabai, the Ribe, the Kambas, the Jibana, the Choni, the Giriama, the Kauma.

Then another group – the Segeju, the Pokomo, Ataita, Adawida, Ataveta, Amarati and the Marakote speaking people.

Nilotic Speaking groups - Eastern plains Nilotic – The Maasai, Samburu, Turkana, Teso, Ichamos, Elmolo, Sakweni, Dorobo.

Highlands Nilotic Kalejin group s – Nandi, Marakwet, Pokot, Tugen, Kipsgis, Elgon, Elgel, Sabaot, Terek, Nembus, Mandi, Ogiek, Sengwel. River Lake Nilotic – Luo, Nubians. Kushetis Speaking groups – Southern Kushaitic, Boni. Eastern Kushaitic : Somali, Rendille.

Page 44 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM When you get this report, the next group might read Oromo. Please we advise and correct it very quickly, least we get into problems and read ‘Oruma’. The people in our borders are Oruma. The Oromo speaking people are in Ethiopia. Then go on, Borana, Gabra, Sekuel, Bashna, Mnyoyaya, Bulji, Wata.

And then we need to add non-African groups, Kenyans of European and American decent, Kenyans of Asians decent, Kenyans of Arabs decent. But add another category which we were advised to add. Other Kenyan African, because we were advised there might be other Africans from other countries who have settled and are living in Kenya, so we should add that.

The reason why I took time to go through the names of the people is, it was important to our task force to affirm that we were taking cognizance of these many different communities and we have never had a chance to alter those words in a holy place like this one where Kenyans have met to deliberate on a new dispensation.

I thank you very much. God bless (C lapping)

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Thank you very much Presenters. You will agree with me that we have had very good presentations and, before we adjourn for lunch I have two or three announcements.

One Committee members for Land Rights and Environment, that is Committee J, who have not collected their files kindly collect them over lunch hour from Tent number 10.

Announcement number two, the Committee members for Public Finance, that is group H, who have not collected their files also do the same from Tent number eight.

Then there will be a joint meeting for Convenors and Rapporteurs to be held in the Steering Committee Tent at 1 p.m. Thank you very much. Let us meet after lunch.

The meeting was adjourned for lunch at 1.05 p.m.

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Meeting was called to order at 2.30 p.m.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Honourable Delegates, let us settle down for our afternoon session. May I take this opportunity to welcome you back to this afternoon session and remind you that we had a very lively presentation this morning and it is now your turn to give us your views on all the issues that were handled this morning.

To remind you of the way we used to conduct this during the other sessions we have divided ourselves into blocks. Beginning from here, this is A, B all the way up to block I. So I am going to pick speakers from each block, and I hope we will be as understanding as we were during the other sessions. I am going to begin by asking anybody from Block A who is ready to speak. 385.

Hon. Delegate Caleb Jumba: Thank you, Chairman, Honourable Delegates. My name is Caleb Jumba, Delegate number 385 from Vihiga. I would like to say a few words on culture. Culture is one of the most important paragraphs in the Draft Bill and since it had been left out, I am happy you have brought it back to the Constitution. I would like to say that in Kenya we have many tribes. As the Commissioner has taken us through, I appreciate the work you have done and brought before the Delegates and I would like to say I recognize the structure of people. Most of the people have forgotten our grandfathers and grandmothers. If you go as per my clan, I am a Maragoli by tribe, you find the Maragoli who actually brought forth these Maragolis lived in cave. Usually we have utamaduni in our area whereby we had even the former President come to Vihiga to enjoy our culture.

We have forgotten about the place where Maragolis used to live in the cave. We have not even put a structure in that place. But when you go to places like Israel you will find where Jesus was in prison, you can reach Caliphus house; you have seen (inaudible) house; they have put at least something there for their ancestors so that when people go there they visit these places. I would like this item to be emphasized so that we have at least people remembering their tribes and put at least something where these people lived to remember them.

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In addition, culture entailed people brewing their own drinks like busaa to celebrate their cultural activities like circumcision. But in Kenya they had to do away with liquor licensing that prohibits busaa and other things. Many people in these parts have taken to taking changaa, which I think is killing our people. People would like to have what they take very fast and swallow.

When you go to neighbouring countries like Uganda next door where I used to be in vehicles go round collecting this liquor drinks and take it to the factory before taking it to the market. In Kenya it is as if we have given the Police a source of cheap money. I would request that we have traditional drinks. If we could legalize the brewing of busaa, it could be taken during celebrations and because it has (inaudible) inside it is not like Changaa when you swallow you close your eyes, it is like an injection in the body and has ruined many people’s lives. I am requesting the Task Force that is working on culture, that we should have the traditional drinks in our customary law. I will also come to the Task Force to give my views. Unless that is done many people will die. The Government has allowed people to include sulphur in brews which is killing our children……

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Thank you.

Hon. Delegate Caleb Jumba: So I am requesting most of the Delegates to see that at least we take this chapter of culture very seriously because it is our utamaduni.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Thank you very much. In the next block I will recognize someone from the Religious Organizations, number 522.

Hon. Delegate David Gitari : Mr. Chairman, my name is David Gitari, number 522. I want first of all to express my deep appreciation for the work which has been done on Culture which was presented to us this morning. I also want to make two observations. The phrase ‘preservation of culture’ was repeated many times and I want to express caution about it, because we cannot preserve everything in culture. For instance, in the Kikuyu culture, in the past, when a woman gave birth to twins they were both considered as a bad omen and had to be destroyed. When a

Page 47 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM child grew upper teeth first, that child became a bad omen and had to be destroyed. Therefore anything that is life-threatening cannot be preserved in culture.

We are also reminded, for instance, in India, there was a cultural habit called ‘sanji’ where a dead husband was buried together with his living wife. Such culture, surely, however much we like it, cannot be preserved.

If I may put it theologically, because we are created in God’s image, much of our culture is full of beauty but because a human being is a foreign creature, some of his culture may be demonic. So we will preserve that which is honourable, beautiful, that which enriches our inheritance but anything that is life threatening or demeaning to any group of people cannot be preserved. I say that because this morning we were even told about female genital mutilation which is a widespread cultural practice in Kenya but which we also know can be dangerous to women. Surely, we cannot continue preserving such things. There are many aspects of culture which also are very discriminative especially to women and I think we have to be careful in praising every cultural inheritance we have.

The second thing I want to say is that culture is not static, culture is dynamic. We cannot just say we are only going to preserve culture because we inherited it. We must remember, for instance, 100 years ago our culture was very different from today because culture is dynamic. Our culture has been changed here and there but what went wrong was for those who brought the religion or colonialism, they did not see anything good in African culture. There was much which was good but nearly everything was condemned. So we have to bear in mind that as we progress, culture cannot remain static and we have to embrace the new good things that we may come to learn and abandon things in culture which may not be of much use. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. (Clapping)

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: On the other block, I will recognize a Member of Parliament. There is only one.

Hon. Delegate Kipkalya Kones: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman I would like first of all to congratulate the Mover of this Chapter, who did it--

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Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Identify yourself first.

Hon. Delegate Kipkalya Kones: My names are Kipkalya Kones, Member of Parliament, Delegate number 216. Mr. Chairman, I would like to bring up an issue which was not raised when we were hearing the schedules on the tribes of Kenya. Mr. Chairman, there is a small sub tribe of the Kipsigis people called the Talaik. The Talaik, Mr. Chairman, are people who were actually the Kipsigis until when the British decided to alienate them from the rest of the Kipsigis people.

Mr. Chairman, in 1908 the leader of the Talaik clan was detained, removed from his home and detained in Port Hall which is in Nyeri. He stayed there until he died and buried in Nyeri and today his grave is in Nyeri and he wad detained there because of political reasons. Mr. Chairman, we as the Kipsigis are not even allowed or we were never allowed during those days even to visit his graveside. Mr. Chairman, we talked about the graves and how we should be giving some honour to certain heroes of those days, the long days, and I think one of the areas that we should be looking at is where our elder, our freedom fighter called Koitalel was buried in Nyeri.

Mr. Chairman, in 1937 a clan, the same clan was evicted from Kipsigis land and taken to a place in Nyanza called Rusinga Island. They were detained there and they were not allowed to come back home whatsoever. They stayed in Gwasi and it was only until we attained independence in 1963 when they were allowed to come back home. Mr. Chairman, this was a family of 200 people. Mr. Chairman, during that time they did not intermarry with the communities around there, the Luos. They stayed unmarried; the young men did not marry. They did not go to any school, they lost their properties and a lot of them died out there, Mr. Chairman because of tsetse flies.

Mr. Chairman, when they came back in 1963, they found that all their land had been taken away by the rest of the Kipsigis people. They were admitted back home but they were never given land. They stayed around Kericho Town and up to today they are there Mr. Chairman. They have lost almost everything they had, they are now living there, as squatters, they are living there

Page 49 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM in a very poor state of life and yet it was the colonialists who actually created that thing. Mr. Chairman, I read through the eviction order and the order was saying they were going to be settled in Rusinga Island in Gwasi. They were not settled because during independence they were brought back.

Mr. Chairman, I am wondering whether under this culture and the under the schedule of tribes we should not include this as one of the minor and marginalized tribes of this country. Mr. Chairman, thirty years away from home is a long time. Thirty years away from any style, any education or any social improvement is a long time. Mr. Chairman, we feel that these people were the leaders of the Kipsigis and they fought for independence. They were fighting for independence as early as 1901 and these days you are hearing so much about the people who fought for independence in the early fifties and we are forgetting that infact the Kipsigis were the first people who resisted the British rule.

Mr. Chairman, I very strongly feel that this community should be included in the schedule. They should be compensated in that some land should be given to them, they should be compensated for the lose of lives, they should be compensated for the properties that they lost and they should be recognized as part of the people who actually lived and resisted the British rule. Mr. Chairman, with those few remarks about this Chapter on culture, particularly the Talaik, I feel very strongly that these people should be given a place among the tribes of this country. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you. Should we all keep time like that, I think we will proceed very well. In block D, I would like to recognize someone from Political Parties, Special Interest Groups, Professional Organization, Trade Unions. Is there anyone? Okay, 447.

Hon. Delegate Kennedy Kiliku: Asante sana Mwenyekiti kwa kunipa nafasi. Kwanza tujifundishe mila ya kuzungumza hasa wanasiasa. Mwenyekiti, mimi nilichaguliwa na Bunge kuenda kuchungunza mizozano iliyokuwa ikiendelea katika nchi hii, watu ambao waliuwana, wakapigana na hasara nyingi ikapatikana. Chanzo chake ilikuwa ni wanasiasa, viongozi kutokujali mtu akipata jukwa kuzungumza. Hii imeleta hasara katika nchi hii kwa sababu, ikiwa mwanasiasa atasimama na kusema watu ambao si wa hapa, sitaki kuwaona. Mwanasiasa

Page 50 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM hupewa heshima katika nchi hii sana. Hasa Mbunge hupewa heshima na watu. Mbunge akizungumza kitu, huchukuliwa kama ni sheria na wananchi na watu wanapigana, wanapigana maanake wamesikia viongozi wao wanasema nini, kisha baadaye wanasema tuende tukachunguze. Tukichunguza, ni wale wale ambao walikuwa wakihusika. Tunataka hivi, mtu yoyote ambaye alihusika na kuleta maafa katika nchi hii kwa sababu ya taabia zake, matamshi yake, tafadhali katika zile jukwa za kuzungumza uhusiano mwema na nini, wale watu waitwe waonywe, waambiwe tafadhali tumeanza Kenya mpya.

Mwenyekiti, katika nchi hii, watu wengi wamepotea kwa kufuata mambo ya Wazungu. Huwezi kulaumu huyu ama kulaumu yule. Mambo ya Wazungu tafadhali yameharibu kwa sababu hapa ni Afrika. Zamani tukiwa wadogo wadogo ilikuwa ukizungumza mbele ya mtu mzima, lazima uwe na heshima lakini siku hizi unaona hata ukizungumza mbele ya baba yako ama mama yako hata heshima hakuna. Ni vizuri tufundishane. Kwanza tuwe na heshima kwa wale wazee wetu, mila inaanza hapo. Tuwe na heshima kwa wale watu ambao wametuzaa na ikiwa utaheshimu wale wakubwa na watoto wako wape heshima. Lakini utaona siku hizi Mwaafrika anaenda kwa swimming pool na watoto wake hata wasichana wengine ni wakubwa, wanaenda ku-swim pamoja katika beach, aibu kubwa. Vile Wazungu wanafanya na sisi tunafuata hivyo.

Nimeona Bwana Chairman, nimeona wazee katika Beach Hotel, mtu anaenda na msichana miaka kumi na nane, matiti yanaonekana, yeye na mama yake wanavaa vinyasa huko wanaenda ku- swim pamoja. Msichana aki-swim hapo na wewe una-swim hapo na mama yake. Hiyo ni heshima gani? Hayo ni mambo ya Wazungu. Kwa hayo machache, naunga mkono.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Asante. In the other block, I would like someone from the Women’s Organization. 378.

Hon. Delegate Dorcas Mbelesia: First, I am not from the Women Organization. I am a District Delegate, my names are Dorcas Mbelesia from Kakamega District. I would want to talk about some cultures that I would want rejected. For example, in Western Province especially Kakamega District where I come from, we have a routine where a lady gets married to her husband, unfortunately that man has very little income so he is not able to pay the bride price. When this lady dies, the family members of this lady do not allow the bereaved or bereaved

Page 51 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM husband to burry the body of this lady. Now, they carry you back to their family home and they do not burry you in the direct homestead, they take it to the banana plantation which is very unfair. Such cultures, I think, should be done away with.

Secondly, we have another culture that when a husband dies you are given some conditions as a wife to follow which are very nasty and even somebody is talking about an elderly daughter. Those customs are done even when your daughters are seeing. So please, as the Constitutional review group we should abolish some things. We have something they call ‘ busyukhu ’ A person has a swollen leg or hand and you might be having ‘oedema’ , who knows, and that is just a disease which can be treated. You are forced to take some herbs.

Another problem we have on the positive aspects of our culture is that we have some drugs which can cure boils, procured abortions, measles and even infertility in women but they are not recognized. Whenever you are talking about them the KEMRI people come and then they take the whole programme to be theirs. So I think we should retain our own drugs and at least the government should come to our rescue so that we can have own way to make these drugs be used by us and the revenue comes back to us as Kenyans. Thank you.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. ( Clapping). In Block D, I will recognize someone from Political Parties, Special Interest Groups. Is 421 from Special Interest? No. 412, yes.

Hon. Delegate Thomas Marengo: Asante Bwana Mwenyekiti kwa kunipa nafasi hii kwa mjadala unaoendelea hasa kuhusu mila na desturi. Mimi ni Merengo Thomas kutoka Kuria, nambari 421. Kwa upande huo Bwana Mwenyekiti, napenda kusifu Commission kwa kuleta mswada huu ambao ni wa culture. Kwa upande wetu, imeshasemwa hapo kwamba upande wa Kuria tuna aina ya Council of Elders ambao tunawaita Ritongo na tuna vijana wetu ambao wanalinda nchi. Hapo mbeleni kulikuwa na shida ambapo wakati wa Idi Amin, vita vya Nyerere kule Uganda walijitolea wakaenda wakapigana vita. Waliposhinda wale vijana wa Tanzania wakarudi kwao na bunduki na zile bunduki wao hawakuwa katika establishment ya Tanzania Army. Ilibidi waziuze Kenya kwa sababu sisi tuko katika mpaka na sehemu ya Kuria ikajaa

Page 52 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM bunduki na kila aina ya uhalifu ukaanza na tukawa na shida kweli, wizi, unyang’anyi, cattle rustling na kila kitu.

Lakini tulipouliza Serikali, ikaturuhusu tukaenda wazee hawa wanaita “ Ritongo” na vijana wetu tunaowaita “Sungusungu ”. Walijaribu kusanya hizo bunduki na marisasi na wakarudisha kwa Serikali. Serikali walikua wameshindwa. Na hata majirani zetu, Wilaya zetu, jirani Trans-Mara na Migori, wanaweza kushuhudia kwamba tangu tuaanze hio, tumekua na amani na wafanyi kazi wa Serikali wanaofanya kazi sehemu zetu wana amani. Wanafanya kazi. Watoto wanasoma na kuna amani ya kutosha kwa ajili ya hawa wazee ambao tunaita Litongo. Kwa hivyo sisi tumetumwa kuuliza kwamba katika Katiba hii, sehemu hii ya Litongo na Sungusungu, iwekwe katika Katiba ili isaidie Serikali na isaidie wananchi wa Kuria kulinda amani na kuleta ustawi katika jamii.

Jambo lingine ni kuhusu Busaa. Kwa kweli Busaa katika jamii nyingi tunawatu ambao wanaenda wanatafuta madawa mbali, mbali. Sherehe nyingi katika jamii zetu lazima inaenda na Busaa. Na hata kuna nyingine ninasikia unaenda kwa mila na unaambiwa, nenda utengeneze Busaa, uite wazee wafanye sherehe fulani. Kwa hivyo ni mila ambayo ilikua inahifadhiwa na watu wa zamani na inafaa kwamba hio Busaa ikirudishwa itakua nzuri kwa minaajili ya desturi za jamii.

Kwa hivyo Bwana Mwenyekiti, hizo jambo za mihimu ni kwamba sisi katika community ya Wakuria, wametutuma kusema kwamba Ritongo na Sungusungu ihifadhiwe. Kama kwa mfano hivi juzi, Mbunge wetu hapa alifanyiwa madhambi humu katika mji huu, wa Nairobi. Alishambuliwa kwake nyumbani hapa Nairobi, juzi, juzi akashambuliwa, mlizi wake akawawa. Dereba wake akajerehiwa ni mahututi. Na ingekuwa hivyo pale kwetu, wale Sungusungu wakiwachwa kuja hapa Nairobi, watasaidia hio ( laughter ) na sugu itakwisha. Kwa hivyo tunaomba kwamba hio ihifadhiwe. Asante sana.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Thank you very much. In Block G, I will recognize someone from the Professional Organization. 547.

Page 53 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Abdulrahman Wandati Mirimo : Mr. Chairman, my name is Abdulrahman Wandati. Delegate No. 547. It seems to me that what you are trying to discuss as culture or cultural practices has a lot to do with the identity of the people than simply with the practices and the question I therefore ask myself, Mr. Chair, is whether it is possible to regulate Culture outside the Culture itself. Whether for example, taking the example that has just been given by the previous speaker, the Hon. Delegate from Kuria, it reminds me of the incidents that take place within Kisii District for example where in the recent past, we have read about community members going after people they know as witches and hunting them out and making some punishment on them and the question that comes to mind, is whether the activity carried out in that manner is not an internal mechanism of regulation within the Cultural practices of the area.

So, if there are witches within the community, then the community or the Cultural environment within whatever is being rectified, has its own internal mechanism and I am asking myself, if this is the case, is it possible for us, for the Constitution of Kenya to prescribe a general guideline or a general regulation within Cultures? Can I sit here and identify certain practices within the Luhya Culture as a member of this Conference and say, this ought to happen or this does not have to happen? Or is it a matter that would be best left to the Luhya community itself and that this Conference only gives guidelines in terms of the framework that the Constitution may use?

The second question that I am raising is, whatever we prescribe in terms of Culture, what is the linkage between Cultural practice for example and the religious consciousness that we have also adopted or followed since possibly before colonialism?

The third question that disturbs me at the moment is the linkages between the recommendations that we will make in respect of Culture here and the traditional Courts that we are proposing in a devolved kind of Kenya that we are already anticipating within this discussion. So, I am persuaded to believe it might not be possible for us to do anything other than merely giving a general guideline in terms of cultural practices of the different peoples of Kenya than to go deep and try to pick out a Culture from a particular tribe or a particular region and say, this is right and this is not right for it. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : In the next row, I recognize 414.

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Hon. Delegate Elizabeth Okelo Nyangetha : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am Elizabeth Okelo, a district Delegate from Migori District. It is good that most of our Delegates remembered about our Culture as people. But I want to put my voice on some of the Cultures that have followed or have been practiced long time ago. There are some Cultures which should be preserved as some of the Delegates have said, like respect for the older people among the young people. But there are some Cultures, which you find are difficult to be preserved like in our Luo Culture, which was the wife inheritance. At this time of age, you find that it is a very difficult Culture to continue with because you find that most people are dying because of this Culture and it is not good to lose our people we want as we continue with Culture.

There is another Culture, which is practiced by our Bantu groups like the women circumcision. You find that the girls go under the severe pain and they suffer the body injury because they want to preserve Culture. I think some of those Cultures should not be preserved and I thank the people of Kenya to think about some good Cultures, which we should preserve, and the others, which are not good and should not be preserved. Thank you Mr. Chairman and Fellow Delegates.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Thank you very much. In the next row, I will recognize an MP. 221.

Hon. Delegate Ruth Oniang’o : Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am Delegate 221, Ruth Oniang’o. I first of all want to congratulate the Commissioners for truly doing an excellent job at researching and also presenting this particular topic to us and surely given what has come out, it would appear to me that in fact it just might deserve its own Chapter.

Mr. Chairman, the issue of Culture is a very crucial and I do not want to belabour the very good points that have been put forward already but to say that Culture indeed defines us and like Hon. Rev. Gitari said in fact it is not static and it is dynamic. But, Mr. Chairman, there are some aspects of Culture which in fact needs to stay static especially those which define who we are especially when it comes to issues of death, marriage and probably burial. Not in their totality because there are some aspects of them, which we must truly change as, we move ahead.

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Then Mr. Chairman, I just felt also that the issue of food and in regard to health is very crucial especially now in the wake of new diseases such as HIV AIDS and where Africans are associating most of the new diseases to new food that we have in our diet and I think it is important to look back at the Cultural and traditional foods we have had and what health and disease controlling implications they had so that we can begin to go back and address those.

Mr. Chairman, the issue of family is so critical to Africans and we are tending to forget this and again in the wake of HIV AIDS and so many orphans and widows, we don’t know how to cope with these problems and this a new problem we have in our midst and maybe we need to look back on our Cultures to see how widows and orphans were treated and see to what extent we can address that issue and then seek Government support to be able to address this. Otherwise we are going to be caught up in a major crisis.

Then Mr. Chairman, the issue of inter-generational issues. We are finding that we are not respecting the different age groups because we are trying to follow and ape the West when in fact as Africans, I believe that we had a lot of respect for each other and even women were respected in a Cultural environment. This situation where we are having women marginalized and orphans and children marginalized, I believe is a transitional stage and is not really African and I want to appeal to our Delegates here and tell them that in fact, the woman is the backbone of a family.

The woman is in fact the backbone of a family and without women, men are absolutely heads who can do nothing and therefore we need to work together for mutual respect and to ensure that in fact we promote the family as Africans. Without a family, we are lost as a people and therefore this I want to over-emphasize and say that family is so crucial and therefore we have to make sure that we actually support this. Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Point of Order?

Hon. Delegate David Marcos Rakamba : Thank you Mr. Chairman for giving me this opportunity. My names are David Marcos Rakamba, Delegate Number 433. Mr. Chairman, we

Page 56 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM have the regulations of the running of this Conference. The regulations have been violated from morning until this time with Honourable Delegates who have been leading these regulations. It is wrong to refer to some members in the Conference that they can do nothing. There is better language that we can use to deliver some points in the contribution and I beg to ask the Honourable Delegate who has just stood to refer to the men that they “can do nothing”; so that she can withdraw that statement in good faith. ( Uproar and noise from the Honourable Delegates ).

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : Honourable Delegates, I think we should be understanding. Let us speak in a manner that respects all of us because we do not want to be in a situation where we have gender insensitivity. So, when we are talking about men or women, let us talk about members of our community. Drive your point home but I do not really think there was anything abusive in what she said as far as I understood. ( clapping ). So, I will come back to this and I will get somebody from Special Interests Groups.

Hon. Delegate Sophia Abdi: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Sophia Abdi Noor and my number is 470. I would like to contribute to the issue of culture. I am a strong believer in cultural values and principles and I know culture is dynamic and we are losing some of the most important and fundamental values of our community. If we can take basic things like the way the African’s community used to greet one another, the way they used to call themselves. At my age I can’t call someone who is older than me by the name. But today what do we see, our children calling us by our names. Our children greeting us telling us, ‘Daddy vipi?’ Those are the things that are going on, so really preserving some of those important cultures, not only preserving, but disseminating them. Going out of your way, talking to the young ones telling them the stories over the fires, our grandmothers used to tell us. Those are not there. So we need to go back to our cultures, the important values. We know we have very beautiful culture although we have some cultures which created opportunities by some individuals within every culture. In every African community, we will find people who have created their own opportunities to serve themselves.

Those are the cultures that really discriminate against the communities. Those are cultures that really create an enabling environment. Like where you have, female genital mutilation. It is a culture that really threatens the lives of human beings. So those kinds of cultures, should not be

Page 57 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM preserved. Those are cultures that really gives us a lot of problems. But we have very many beautiful cultures. Like the Somalis have got smart structures like traditional governor systems. Almost all African communities have traditional governor system. They have very beautiful cultures with structures, with rules and regulations and many other things. We need to capture those kinds of structures. Like the Somali traditional governor system which is over five hundred years old and before the colonial times, there used to be one person elected by the entire community and that person could….you know….without these telephones, without E-mails of today, reach every corner and we really knew how these things were going. Those were our African traditional cultures. We could take our messages round and we need to capture those kind of traditions. Then we have the council of elders.

Finally, what happened this morning was not an African culture. It was something which was bad. We didn’t want that to happen. Whatsoever that happens outside this Conference is not really something which we could talk about. Someone who stood on the point of order. We cannot do two wrongs to make a right. Already there was a wrong which was committed and it was not in order for the Honourable Delegates who are here to raise that point of order and create unnecessary, an un-African culture in telling us things that we do not want to hear. We are collecting those things. The person who came has a right to be here like any other Kenyan.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you Delegate. We don’t want to get into that.

Hon. Delegate Sophia Abdi: Mr. Chairman, let me finish. I have not finished my time please.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: I am saying I ruled on that, let’s not bring it back. I take your point.

Hon. Delegate Sophia Abdi: Thank you so much. So my points are; let’s have the….the culture is a very important thing and let’s think. We know it is not in our Draft and we had to go out of our way and the Commission has really given us a background, very important and useful information. A foundation to work from, so my proposal is, that we have a Chapter of its own that really can tell us and get the principles and the values of our cultures. Thank you so much.

Page 58 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. In the next row I will recognize a Member of Parliament. No. 043.

Hon. Delegate Mirugi Kariuki: Thank you Chair, my name is Mirugi Kariuki, Delegate 043. I would also like to support the fact that we should have some constitutional provision for culture. Much has been said about culture but I would like to say that we are running into danger as a country where we bring up children who don’t even know their mother tongue. They go to a school where their mother tongue is not taught. It is very challenging; I have been to some European countries, in Scandinavia in particular where it is mandatory for all children to have three lessons in a week to study their mother tongue. Because those Governments appreciate that without a mother tongue, without a culture, you destroy the child’s self-confidence. Even at the height of colonialism here. Colonialism allowed us to be taught in mother tongue up to standard two. Because they realize the foundation of a good and a stable citizen is to have a stable culture. So it is important to ensure that in our curriculum, we make provision for those who want to expose their children to their mother tongue, so that they become citizens who are confident. We hear incidents, when our children go to America and Europe, trying to ape Western culture and we become embarrassed when we hear the kind of practice they are involved in. It is because we never gave them lessons in our culture. It is therefore important that we build a strong foundation for our culture. It is very interesting to see what is happening around Nairobi over the weekend. People going for traditional foods and dances. We are beginning to realize, rather belatedly that our foods are some of the healthiest foods in the world. After exposing ourselves to Western foods and getting sick. We have began to realize that Githeri and Irio and Ugali is really the most healthy food you can have. Somebody mentioned about traditional drinks.

Let me say that there is law in this country for traditional liquor. But traditional liquor has been looked down upon by the lawmakers, merely because it is not a source of revenue. c hang’aa has been condemned. But I really don’t know the difference between chang’aa and whisky . The only difference is whisky is western and there is duty on it and chang’aa is for a poor man and there is no duty on it. That’s basically the difference. If we have to condemn liquor, lets’ condemn liquor across the board. Let’s not do it selectively, because muratina is African, a drink for a poor man we condemn it and because Tusker is a rich man’s drink, we embrace it. Those are double standards. I think it is time we recognize the place of our culture both in food and in drinks.

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Mr. Chairman, let me also mention about intellectual property rights. We have for example a popular herb in this country called mwarubaini . Experts have come to this country, they have extracted its content, they have gone back to Europe. They have registered it as a patent right under the intellectual property law in their countries. They have produced it in factories. They have exported it here and we consume that. Yet the intellectual property in that medicine is local African here, mwarubaini, we all know it. It cures Malaria and many other diseases. It is time we preserved our cultural heritage by ensuring that we promote even our herbal medicine and make it a modern day medicine where we can manufacture it in our factories.

Finally, let me say, there is a lot of fear that Culture might conflict with human rights of certain individuals. It is important that we uphold human rights. They are universal and they are supreme and where the culture of our people conflicts with the fundamental human rights, I think the fundamental rights should prevail. Thank you Chair.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. The other row I will recognize someone from the women’s organizations. Number – 510.

Hon. Delegate Atsango Chesoni: Thank you Mr. Chairperson, my name is Atsango Chesoni, Delegate 510, representing Women’s Organizations. I just wanted to raise three issues pertaining to general principles in relation to Culture. First of all, I would like to commend the CKRC for having ensured that the Task force was able to do its work. The first issue I want to refer to is the issue of the principle of inter-generational equity, which had been referred to by one of the earlier speakers and just say that this is a principle that comes out of cultures. It is a principle that recognizes that everybody has a role to play in the community regardless of their age and that is the principle we would like to see through our mainstream throughout the Constitution.

Therefore, it is actually against our culture, to having clauses that discriminate against people of certain age groups. Whether be younger or older people and it is the absence of respect of this principle that has resulted in some of the anger and inability to create a sustainable approach to development. The second principle that I would like to raise is, the principle relating to intellectual property. It is very important in this area. Because as a cultural worker, as a writer, as

Page 60 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM an artist, I personally find myself in a situation where I am faced with a legal framework that does not protect my rights. This is not unique to just me, all Kenyan artists find ourselves in this environment. So, having a legal framework that actually protects intellectual property in all its forms, whether it is relates to scientific or the creators and artist aspect is important.

On that note, to note that Kenya has never had a cultural policy. Forty years after independence, we are still devoid of a national cultural policy. So unfortunately, despite the fact that I think the Constitution needs to deal with principles in general, it may be necessary to say that we actually need to have a requirement as the Government poliogates national policy on culture for this country. The final point is in relation to African customary law. Unlike other forms of law in this country, we have not required that it be document so that we are unable to actually look at it and understand its development. It is actually unable to grow as a form of law and as we approach from the perception that it must remain static. Also in the absence of its documentation, we find that only certain aspects are over it therefore recognized.

For instance, in respect of women rights, we very often hear about the practices that are negative. We don’t hear about practices that could have protected women’s rights and this is just one area. So I think if we are going to recognize African customary law, there must be a requirement that like other areas of law, it is documented, that it is treated with the same seriousness and subjected to the same principles as other forms of law are and in respect of its relationship to the Constitution. Thank you.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. I will recognize a representative of the professional organizations. Then I will recognize someone from political parties. Number 605.

Hon. Delegate Ngorongo Makanga: Mr. Chairman, my name is Makanga from the Political Parties. I would like to recommend the CKRC for the research they have done and to also portray to us that culture is a valuable instrument, in this Constitution. Probably what we would do is to promote the Ad hoc committee on culture to be a fully pledged Technical Committee. So that we really, like Commissioner Adagala said we do not marginalize ourselves even when we are making the Constitution. Because it looks, all of us here, the indigenous people of this country

Page 61 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM are marginalizing themselves even when it comes to bringing out the principles and the ways they want to live in this country called Kenya.

The second point is probably what we will do, because the Honourable Delegate Wathati said, it is very difficult to discuss about the cultural values of all the communities that live in Kenya in this hall. So probably the Ad hoc committee if it is promoted, it should probably try to create committees from every community, so that all the communities of this country would be in a position to rewrite about their culture. Which then probably would be put in the library or would be put in a house, like we were saying the Upper House, should be a house of national wisdom where all people of this country would be represented. So that our cultural values, our cultural ideas do not die. The other point was; in the African culture, everything starts from a home and the way we are brought up, we are brought up to bring glory and pride to our parents. The same way we are also bringing up our children, for them to give us the pride and to bring glory in our homes. So we must understand that all those things will start from the home and yet when we marginalize our children when we are bringing them up because they don’t know the mother tongue, they can only speak Kiswahili and English, then we are really destroying ourselves. Because a people without a culture, their creativity I think is almost destroyed. That’s why Africa, what it has probably managed to excel in is to photocopy or to imitate the Western values and western culture.

Probably the fourth point is, we need in this Constitution to create a House from down to the top, where anybody who wants to see a reflection of Kenya, you can look at reflection of Kenya, if it is an El moro, you still can see an El moro where they live and at the top or an Ogiek. You can see them at the top. So that Parliament will not also marginalize our languages and our values. Because immediately we start using English and Kiswahili as the national languages and as Commissioner Adagala said we have some languages which are spoken by more than a million people and we do not make those languages national, then I think as a people, as a community, as a country, we are failing our future. Thank you very much.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much and in the next row I am recognizing a Member of Parliament. Hon. Delegate number 083.

Page 62 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Wangari Maathai: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. I too would like to join those who have congratulated the task force for doing an excellent job. The Honourable Delegates will remember that when we were on recess, we decided that we did not want the Ad hoc committee to continue working and therefore the Ad hoc Committee Members are seeing this document and listening for the very first time also. For that reason, we would like to request the Conference Delegates to allow the Ad hoc Committee or to recommend to the secretariat to promote this Ad hoc Committee to a full time committee so that we concentrate on these materials now. It will be very difficult for this committee to siege the other committees with whatever recommendations we come up with even though we recognize that this is the very cross cutting issue. It seems to me that unless we work parallel with the other committees, then produce document and have a chapter in the Constitution then we shall not have prioritized our culture and we shall not have given it the attention it deserves in the document.

Mr. Chairman, I am saying that I would like to agree with Arch Bishop Gitari with fact that yes culture is dynamic and especially when culture react with other cultures it must change, it cannot be static. There are certain aspect of culture show which we cannot keep and there are those which we really should keep. But for me even the very fact that we have devoted a whole day to this subject is already a wonderful recognition that this subject is very important.

I know for sure that there are no people anywhere in the world who were once noticed, who know who they are and who recognize who they are that do not have a culture. Any people without a culture are nobody and if we do not retain our culture, if we do not recognize our culture and retain them, then we shall have condemned our future generation to nothing. I am therefore very, very happy with respect to one aspect of category I would like to bring out is the agri-culture, that is a very important part of our culture. For thousands of years our four fathers, our generations back cultivated world seed, they allowed them to change, they domesticated them and we came to own certain seeds, certain crops and to know how to prepare certain food and our bodies evolved a long certain habitats, certain environment which we can only keep and nature if we do not use our culture.

Once we loose our seed, especially in this age of globalization, we shall become completely dependent on foreign seeds and seeds that are privatized by foreign companies. I think that

Page 63 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM according to me this is the most important subject in this whole document, this is what will sustain our generations to come. And therefore I want to appeal to the Delegates to allow us to work in the committee to devote the whole time so that we can do justice to this very very important sector. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. In the next row, I will still recognize a Member of Parliament. Honourable Delegate number 131.

Hon. Delegate Mwandawiro Mghanga: Asante sana Mwenyekiti. Kwanza nitaungana na Wajumbe wenzangu kuwapongeza wale walioshughulikia kwenye commission, walishughulikia swala hili la utamaduni na mambo yote ambayo wametuelezea ambayo kwa kweli, wametupa mambo mengi muhimu sana kuhusu utamaduni.

Jambo ambalo nadhani limefikia, tutakalofanya zitakazofanywa tulishughulikie na kujaribu sasa kutafuta njia ya kuyaweka mambo hayo kwa muktasari ili yaambatana na kanuni za kuandika Katiba. Na moja kwa moja nitaanza na kumuunga mkono Mwenyekiti wa hilo jobo lililotengenezwa la kushughulikia utamaduni kwamba ligeuke kutoka kuwa jobo na kuwa kamati kamili lenye watu sitini wa kushughulikia swala hili kwa marefu na mapana, manake wengi wetu tumetambua umuhimu wa utamaduni. Na umuhimu hapa ni kusisitiza kwamba, utamaduni ni kioo cha jamii. Tukiangalia jamii yetu ya Kenya, pahali imefikia leo tunajiona na ndio tunaona utamaduni wetu.

Hata shughuli hii ambayo tunafanya ya kuandika Katiba mpya ya kitaifa kwa kweli ni shughuli ya kujaribu kuandika muktasari wa utamaduni wetu kama taifa. La muhimu ambalo ningeomba kuchangia ni kwamba wakati tutaenda kuandika utamaduni katika Katiba mpya, tukumbuke kwamba tuko pahali tulipofika na tusijaribu kurudisha nchi nyuma kwa jina la utamaduni. Tuanzie pahali tulipo kuyaondoa ule utamaduni mbaya wa kupinga maendeleo, utamaduni wa unyanyasaji, utamaduni wa kutojali maslahi ya wengine, utamaduni wa kuvunja haki za binadamu na tuunge mkono utamaduni wa kimaendeleo wenye kupeleka mambo yote mbele ya haki, ya kimaendeleo, na tukumbuke hata sayansi na teknologia ule utamaduni unakuja kama computers, vile vile unakuwa sehemu ya utamaduni wetu.

Page 64 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Kwa hivyo, kwa ujumla ni kuenda kuandika utamaduni, misingi ambayo inawezesha kwamba kila mtu katika jamii hii atafuata misingi hiyo. Haina maana kuendelea kwa kirefu sana kwa undani, kuzungumza utamaduni wa kila mtu kwa undani kabisa. Ni kuweka miingi tu ambayo inaingia katika Katiba ya kusema kwamba tunataka kudumisha utamaduni wetu na utamaduni wetu ni wa kimaendeleo, utamaduni wetu ambao utatuunga kama taifa tukitambua tuko na makabila mbali mbali na kabila ina haki ya kuheshimiwa katika nchi yetu.

Jambo lingine ambalo tunaomba tusisahau ni kwamba tuna bahati kama Wakenya ambayo watu wengine duniani hawana. Tuna Kiswahili, Kiswahili ni lugha ya Kiafrika ambayo tuna bahati tuko nayo, tumeikubali, imetuunganisha pamoja. Na zaidi inatuunganisha na wenzetu wa Africa Mashariki, Afrika ya Kati na vile inasikika kwote duniani. Tusije tukaipoteza hilo lugha ama kujaribu kuidunisha. Ingawa lazima tutambue kwamba tuna lugha zetu na lazima tuzidumishe. Kila mtu ana lugha yake na naunga mkono wale ambao wanasema tusije tukapoteza Kikuyu, tusije tukapoteza Kijaluo ama Kitaita, lakini tukumbuke tuna Kiswahili ambacho kinatuunganisha sisi pamoja na ni bahati tuliyoko nayo na lazima tuindeleze. Asanteni sana.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Asante sana. In the other row, I recognize someone from the political parties. Honourable Delegate number 611.

Hon. Delegate John P. Nyakundi: Thank you, Chairman, for giving me this very opportunity, but before I start I would like you to allow chapter three--

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Your name please.

Hon. Delegate John P. Nyakundi: My name is John Peter Nyakundi, Honourable Delegate number 611 from political parties, Kenya Social Congress. Before I say anything in the field of culture, first let me take this very opportunity to thank the Constitution Review Commission for allowing the Ad hoc cultural committee to be formed where I am one of the committee members.

To begin with, the concept of culture is the most important thing because it discusses everything that affects human life.

Page 65 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Number two, culture is representing the following: -

• A style of life. • Economics • And social relationship.

All these are determined at a particular moment in human evolution and form a political life where we get African democracy.

Number three, culture can be used as an advance to create work within (Inaudible) it posses (?) tradition.

Number four, culture contains the Bill or Rights in which establish the fundamental rights and freedom of Kenya as a democratic state. A framework of social, economic and cultural policies of all the tribes in Kenya lays the necessary right ways to protect human lives. Presiding the dignity of individuals and communities. Promoting social justice and realistic potential of all human beings. Sorting out the problems and evils which have taken root for a long time in this country such as tribalism, corruption, witchcraft, police brutality, land clashes and the evil of prosecutions which has mainly contributed towards the HIV/Aids in the country.

Culture sphere, in order to advance the cultural policy of the Kenyan people, it is necessary to start from a correct understanding of Kenya’s current reality. The character of culture policy as it is in stage and its future course must be known.

Number six, because Kenya is composed of many tribes, yaani rationalities, the cultural policies should be used to solve the contradictions among the tribes. Culture shall provide people with a choice to come out with their own creative activities and encourage contacts between them.

Number eight; culture shall allow decentralization of activities and decision making functions in its field. Culture shall be designed with regard to the experience and needs of disadvantaged groups. It facilitates creativity and cultural innovations, it shall guarantee for the cultural heritage. I have got some more points.

Page 66 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Yes, you will present that.

Hon. Delegate John P. Nyakundi: If you don’t allow me, I will still submit because I have a lot on culture. Yeah, this was the summary of my submission. Tafadhali mimi nawaambia culture ni kitu cha umuhimu sana ingawa saa zimekwisha.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Yes, please, please let us respect our time.

Hon. Delegate John P. Nyakundi: Okay. Asante sana.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: In the next row, I will recognize a District Delegate number 361.

Hon. Delegate William Ole Yiaile: Asante sana Bwana Mwenyekiti. Jina langu ni Ole Yiaile kutoka Narok Delegate number 361.

Kwanza nataka kusema hii ni subject nzuri, kwa sababu utamaduni ndio kamba inayounganisha jamii. Ukiona ile jamii ambayo inakosa heshima, inakosa adabu, unakuta ni kijana anaenda kuoa nyanya yake, unakuta ni nyanya anaenda kuoa mtoto wa mtoto wake, ni kwa sababu ile kamba ya kuunganisha jamii imekatika. (Clapping).

Jambo la pili, kama tuko na hasara ambayo civilization ya mashaidi ilituletea ustaharabu ya Mashariki na Magharibi ni kuua utamaduni uliokuwa mnono, uliokuwa mtamu wa Mwafrika katika Afrika nzima. Na ni aibu sana, miaka elufu moja kutoka leo Mungu akiangalia Afrika na aitishe utamaduni wote ule alipatia mtu mweusi uende kumuimbia Mungu kwa Kizungu, unaenda kumuimbia Munga na lugha ya kigeni kwa mana ulipoteza yako na hakuna mtu ataenda mbinguni kama hajui kusifu Mungu kwa lugha yake ile mama alimpea, ile Mungu alimpea. (Clapping). Na kama vile imeandikwa ya kuwa mtu atasimama mbele ya kile kiti kikubwa cha Mungu, kila mtu atatoa habari na ataanza na mother tongue na wewe utasema yako ilipotelea wapi.

Page 67 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Nataka kusema hivi, tunataka katika kila district uwe na committee ya utamaduni ambayo Katiba imeheshimu na kusimamisha. Katika kila district na hawa ndio watatoa utamaduni ulio mzuri na utamaduni hii ilirudishwa nyuma na kwa hivyo hii ya kurudisha nyuma iwachwe wewe mwenyewe ndio utaamua kwa sababu huo ni utamaduni na wao na huamuliwa na mgeni. Wao wenyewe ndio wataamua vile wanataka.

Nimesema ya kwamba katika Katiba hii mpya ni lazima tuweka lugha ya vernacular kusomeshwa kama zamani. Kutoka darasa la kwanza mpaka darasa la saba. Halafu kutoka hapo hebu angalia katika oxford dictionary, inasema yule mtu ambaye anajua kusoma ni yule ambaye anaweza kusoma na kuandika lugha ya mama yake. Na saa hii tuko na watu wana ma-degree na hawawezi kuandika lugha za mama wao na baba wao, kwa hivyo hawajasoma. Na kwa hivyo ni lizama tusimamishe huo utamaduni na tutambue utamaduni in a positive way, sii haya mambo yote kila siku ni kubadilisha maneno.

Halafu nikiendelea hebu kumbuka, na lazima ukweli usemwe hata kama ni uchungu ni lazima usemwe, kwa maana uchungu wa mtoto ajuaye ni nani? Ni mamaye. Kumbuka kama ni wewe mtoto wako alinyakuliwa na pepo halafu anakuja hapo, kisha unasikia huyo mama hata ni ngumu dakika moja kusimama kukumbuka mama wa kweli aliyesimama na maisha yake yakaenda kwa sababu hangependa kuona mtoto ameenda na pepo. Uchungu wa mtoto ajuaye ni mama na ukweli lazima usemwe na tunakuja kuongea juu ya Katiba yetu na wale ambao walikuwa wanapanga hiyo na hiyo ni uchungu kwa kanisa, ilikuwa ni uchungu kwa taifa, ilikuwa ni uchungu kwa watu wa roho safi na kwa sisi sote na ni lazima ukweli usemwe. Kumbuka kama ilikuwa ni wewe na kama ni mtoto wako aliyenyakuliwa ungesikia namna gani? Ukisikia mama ya mama yako ndiye anakuja kuolewa na hata hajasema kitu, hawezi kutambua mama yake. Amepumzika kwa Yesu sasa. Asante.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: In the next row I will recognize someone from the professional organization. That is 487.

Hon. Delegate Baldip Singh Rihal: Thank you Mr. Chairman. My name is Baldip Singh Rihal I am representing the professional organization Delegate number 487.

Page 68 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Order please Delegates.

Hon. Delegate Baldip Singh Rihal : I would like to make a couple of points Mr. Chairman. First of all I will also like to join other Delegates in commanding the task force of the Commission which has written an excellent paper setting out various cultural diversification that are prevailing in Kenya at the moment.

I am also supporting the idea put forward by honourable Delegate Wangari Maathai that the cultural committee of this Conference be turned into a full-fledged Technical Committee. I think that can be resolved at the next Steering Committee meeting. Because culture will be cutting across so many different areas, it will be good if we make that Committee a full Technical Committee so that it can deliberate on all the issues and details and then come with final recommendations here. I believe and I would like to say that the culture aspects in the Constitution will have to be written as a separate chapter and this perhaps will have to be in very general terms, because of the diversification of the different communities we have. I also say and believe that culture is and should be dynamic and this I would like to illustrate by two or three points that concern the sikh community for example. The Sikh community and the Sikh religion because culture is an integral part of every religion. You cannot separate religion from culture and whatever religious practice and beliefs you have pertain into your culture. For example when Guru Nanak the founder of the Sikh religion, five hundred years ago created some new concepts and he broke away from and he questioned a number of the practices that were going on in India at the time.

One of them was the caste system and Guru Nanak said all the human being are equal in the eyes of God. Therefore there should be no caste system distinguishing an upper class and a lower class of the community and then as far as the women are concerned in the sikh religion women are treated equal as men. This was done five hundred years ago. Today over the world, women are fighting for equality whereas in the Sikh religion women had basic quality for over five hundred years now.

There are also many other practices which are done by different cultures and different communities. We have to respect each others cultural practices but there are some practices

Page 69 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM which bring physical harm to the body and I am now alluding to the FGM and the circumcision. The believe of the sikh community or the sikh religion is that God made human beings, both man and woman equal as His own image. If God wanted to have a man circumcised and if He wanted to have a woman with FGM, He would have done it up wherever He operates not here on this earth. I don’t understand why are you mutilating a human body that God has created in His own image. For this reason the sikh don’t do any of these practices but I respect what the other communities do, but as long as they don’t harm the human body like some practices that don’t harm young girls and young boys. Thank you very much.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: On this I will recognize a Member of Parliament. Since there is no a Member of Parliament, I will recognize a district Delegate, 238.

Hon. Delegate Badawy Adbulrahman Ahmed : Bwana Mwenyekiti na honourable Delegates ningependa kuchukua shukrani kubwa kwa kupata fursa hii. Jina langu ni Abdulrahman Ahmed Badawy, Delegate number 238 kutoka Malindi. Kenya iliponyakua uhuru kutoka kwa Muingereza Lancaster House, haikuzingatia swala la utamaduni na haki za watu sawa sawa kila mmoja apate haki yake. Ikatia makabila arubaini na mbili na ikaacha mengine kadha wa kadha ambao kwamba wana haki kamili na ni Wakenya safi. Hakuna kitu kikubwa kama mila na utamaduni wetu. Hakuna kitu kikubwa kama watu kuweza kufaulu, au ni kushikamana na utamaduni wao na mila yao. Wenzetu wameweza kuikuza lugha ya Kiswahili hapa jirani Tanzania kwa sababu ya kuchunga na kuweka baraza au Kamisheni ya kusimamia kazi kama hiyo. Ndiyo ukaona kwamba wameweza kuviza maneno kadha wa kadha na kuyakuza, kuyaunda na kuyaanzisha kwa sababu ya Kamisheni kama hiyo.

Pwani ambapo kwamba kuna mkusanyiko na utumaduni mzito na utajiri wa utamaduni, ingelikuwa ni wajibu wetu sisi tukaufisha utamaduni huo na kuuendeleza, kuusoma, kuukuza na kuueneza kila pahali. Utamaduni huo umejaa katika mikusanyiko na vugu vugu la ukanda wa Pwani, sehemu yote kutoka the Horn of Africa mpaka kuenda Msumbiji na chini. Hilo sio jambo la kuzuuwa ni jambo la historia, siyo ya maandishi lakini la mabaki la ujenzi. Utamaduni huo ulifishwa na Wabajuni, Wasiu, Wapate, Walamu, Wamalindi, Wamvita na wangineo ambao kwamba nimesahau kuwataja. Umeanzisha utamaduni wa tenzi, utamaduni wa mashairi, utamaduni wa Wayu wayu, utamaduni wa kishemia, yote hayo ni mambo ambayo kwamba ni

Page 70 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM mkusanyiko na ni urithi na ni utajiri wa Kiswahili na uswahili. Inatakikana utamaduni kama huo ukuzwe na ufiswe na uenezwe kila pahali.

Hii sauti tunayoitumia ya kuimbia mashahiri, katika utamaduni wa Kiswahili na utamaduni wa Pwani kuna sauti zaidi ya kumi ambazo kwamba mimi mwenyewe ninazijua na huziimba, lakini leo hatuzifudishi wala hatuzisomeshi wala hatuwafundishi watoto wetu katika shule. Watoto wanaimba mashairi wakiwacha hule utamaduni wa ushairi na watenzi na wa wayu wayu, ambao kwamba huo ni utumanduni uliyoko. Huo utamaduni ukifizwa na ukifunzwa utaeleza utamaduni na mila yetu. Kwa hivyo ni wajibu wetu sisi hapa kwanza tutilie nguvu na tuunge mkono hii fikira ya kuleta sehemu ya utamaduni katika Katiba yetu na vile vile tuwe na kamati ambayo kwamba kati ya Technical Committee ambayo kwamba itasimamia jambo kama hilo iangalie mambo yote haya. Isitoshe vile vile, kuna umuhimu sana baadaye na ninataka kupendekeza tuwe na Kamisheni ambaye kwamba itasimamia utamaduni wote na kuangalia ule uzito wake na asili yake yatoka wapi. Hii itatuwezesha kuenda mbele na kupinga hatua kubwa zaidi kwa sababu Pwani kuna utamaduni mkubwa ambao kwamba bado hatujaufika na kuukuza. Asante sana Mwenyekiti.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: In the next block, I am in block B. I will recognize a district Delegate 323.

Hon. Delegate Peter Ejore : Bwana Chairman nambari yangu ni 323. Ningepende kuchangia juu ya utamaduni, kwani mimi ambaye nimetoka mahali ambapo utamaduni bado uko. Hiyo ni sehemu ya Turkana huko, na inapakana na makabila ambao wametoka Ethiopia, Sudan na Uganda ambako utamaduni bado unajaa kwao kabisa. Kwa hivyo ningependa kufahamisha washiriki wenzangu juu ya utamaduni, desturi, mila, lugha, majina na dini. Kwa sababu mambo hayo yote ambayo tunajaribu kuongea kama hakuna mambo hayo, tumepotea tayari. Bwana Chairman, waswahili wanasema mwacha mila ni mtumwa na sijui kama tutakuwa watumwa ama tumekuwa watumwa tayari. Basi utamaduni ndio msingi wa kila jamii, kama mtu hana utamaduni wa kwao hana msingi wowote. Tukija kwa desturi, desturi ndiyo kitu cha kurithi, usipokuwa na desturi ya kwenu, hakuna kitu ambayo utaridhi dunia hii kwa sababu utakuwa mpotefu na utapotea zaidi. Nikija kwa mila, kimila inapatana na mavazi. Nikitazama hapa ndani ninatazama wanawake Waswahili na Waislamu ambao bado wanajivalia mavazi yao ya kimila.

Page 71 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Kwa hivyo nawapongeza na mwendelee hivyo. Wengine wako na ma-degree na bado wanavaa nini? Wanafunga vile na pia eti hawajasoma ndio bado wanavaa kitamadumi. Kwa hivyo, mjiweke namna hiyo na mungu atawasaidia.

Na nikija kwa mambo ya lugha, Bwana Chairman, ningependa tuandike Katiba kwa lugha 53. Lugha 53 ndio ziko katika Kenya na ninasema hivi kwa sababu hata Biblia takatifu ina lugha kumi na tano pekee ndio watu wamewahi kuandika na tuko na makabila 42. Ni ajabu sana na watu wamebeba ma-degree na hawajajua hata kuandika lugha yao. Ningependekeza hapa tunakuja tunasema kuna kitu inaitwa national language eti ni Kiingereza na Kiswahili. Ningepinga hiyo kwa sababu haitakuwa national language. Lugha yangu, kama ni Kiturkana, ndio inaitwa national, kama ni Kikuyu ni national. Hatuwezi kuleta lugha ambayo tumeiga tu kwa kusoma tuiite ati national language. Kwa hivyo, mimi napinga hiyo na ningependa haya mambo ambayo tunaandika tuandike kwa lugha 53.

Halafu nikija kwa majina, Bwana Chairman, majina yetu, tungekuwa na majina milioni thelatini peke yake. Lakini nashangaa kwa sababu tumekuwa na majina zaidi ya milioni ngapi? Thelatini, kwa sababu tumejipandikia majina ya wazungu, Mwafrika anajiita Williamson na yeye si mtoto wa William; eti Peterson na yeye sio mtoto wa Peter. Kwa hivyo, tungejiita Ejore Emase basi. Hiyo ndio majina yetu ya kitamaduni. Tungekuwa na majina millioni thelatini peke yake hapa Kenya badala ya kujibandika majina ya Wazungu. Mnajua Mzungu alikuja kufanya ukoloni ili tupoteze kimila, desturi na majina yetu.

Halafu neno jingine ni dini. Hapa ni vizuri tuko na mavazi ya Ma-pastor. Hata zamani, kabila 42 za Kenya tungekuwa na dini ngapi? Arubaini na mbili peke yake, lakini tumewacha dini zetu tumerukia dini ya watu wengine halafu tumesema tuko na dini zaidi ya mia moja na kabila zetu ni 42. Na hizi dini zingine 68 tutampa nani, ikiwa tuko na dini zaidi ya 100? Kwa hivyo, watu wa dini hizo ninaona wametupotezea ile kimila na dini zetu na tumekuja kuiga dini nyingine. Ndio juzi, Bwana Chairman, tumesikia kule ngambo wanaume wawili wanaweza kuunganishwa ili wawe eti bibi na bwana, sijui itakuwaje. Hiyo ni kazi gani? Eti wameruhusu hata mama na mama waoane, hii tayari ni laana na tumekuwa hayawani. Sisi si wanyama, sisi ni wanadamu na mungu aliumba Adam akaona hawezi kuishi peke yake akaumba mama ili watu wasaidiane wazae

Page 72 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM watoto. Sijui mume na mume watazaa nani? Watazaa baba au watazaa nani? Asante sana. Ningependelea…

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much.

Hon. Delegate Peter Ejore: Ningependelea tuweke desturi kama ya Sudan-tunakaa kama Wasudanese ambao hawawezi kubali wewe kuoza msichana wao kwa sababu desturi yao itaharibika. Lakini sisi tumekimbilia kuoana ovyo ovyo na hiyo ni kuharibu desturi. Asanteni sana.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. In the next row, I will recognize someone from Trade Unions.

Hon. Delegate John Katumanga: Mr . Chairman, thank you very much. We will not waste so much time. We join everyone who has congratulated you. Mr. Chairman, we seem to be blaming colonialists but I don’t think we should do that forty years after independence. In 1963..

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Name and number please.

Hon. Delegate John Katumanga: My name is John Katumanga, number 435. Nawakilisha walimu. Yes, it is true that the colonist demonized anything African. They had an aim which succeeded to divide and rule. It is our duty now to change that picture because forty years after independence we should not be doing that. I was saying in 1963, when Africans were taking over responsibility, I think it was called Africanisation, and anybody who was taking over a white mans job in Kiswahili walikuwa wanamwita rijinazii somebody who is taking over a white man’s job. Indeed, if you did not speak English or behave in an English way it meant you did not go to school. We even told our children to speak in English and behave more or less like the English. I remember even some people forbidding their parents to come to Nairobi because they didn’t want to be associated with the African culture and so on. We must change our hearts now. Culture means “we”, it is not the rules we shall make. We must know other people have got their culture and it must begin in the home. If children don’t know what their grandfather or grandmother is or was, or the kind of language or how people behave, it will be difficult to make

Page 73 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM rules to make them change, if we speak English all the time. Even we do not know our own mother tongue it must begin with us. However, Mr. Chairman the church has also let us down. It is true I concur with that man….Mheshimiwa ambaye amezungumza. The church was also used to demonise African religions and even now some people believe they can pray for other people or through them God can listen. I believe each one of us has a loving God, you can pray to him directly and He will answer you directly rather than going through proxy. Yes, it is a profession but some people are using that for other… I don’t want to mention, yes, commercializing, they are commercializing it. What I am trying to say is, the church can also help us because if you went through the church’s walls anything dirty was black, any picture of a sinful person was painted in black any good thing was white; the statues were white, good pictures about angels were white. There is no black angel in any church, I have never seen it.

Mr. Chairman, we have a ministry of Culture and Social Services which is associated more with sports, football and athletics. There is nothing cultural I have ever heard being run by that ministry and I think we should wake it up so that it can have more responsibilities about the things we are recommending now. There are a lot of African artefacts which were taken by colonialists and which people in West Africa are reclaiming from France and Britain. I think the Minister for Culture should have been here to listen to what we are saying so that the artefacts can be brought back to our National Archives for our children to learn from. There are so many useful historical things.

Mr. Chairman, my fear is about globalization, and particularly the influence of TV and DVD to our children. I am sure quite a number of us here may be having two TV rooms, one for the parents and other for the children. Some of the pictures that are shown on the TV are not African. In fact, when somebody was talking about swimming in Mombasa, I said ‘what about the TV’? Yet our government knows some of those pictures are pornographic and yet are aired on our TV and our children know how to switch on TVs. Even if you hide the keys, they have ways even of borrowing video cassettes from others. I think our ministry should help us to decolonise our minds and those of our children to make them feel proud to be African. Our own mentality should change.

Page 74 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM What about our own dressing? I feel really ashamed sometimes when a man of my age wants to behave like a teenager and puts on very tight-fitting clothes that his son should be wearing, or a woman the age of my wife putting on short dresses. I mean people have freedom, but I think even freedom and democracy must be controlled because they have influence on our children.

Mr. Chairman, I don’t want to take so much time because other must speak. What we are saying is, let us allow that Committee to go and sit down and put these things in some kind of order so that we can discuss them very very first because I think we have covered almost everything. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. In the next row, I will recognize someone from the group of People with Disability.

Hon. Delegate Dubat Ali Amey: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to say bravo to the Commissioners. I have very few comments, Mr. Chairman. I think if we are talking of culture and family values, the Kadhis’ court is one important institution that has been protecting our culture and family values as members of the Muslim community. Mr. Chairman, the other thing which I want to say is, the institution of marriage should be recognized, provided that they are not people of the same sex. Mr. Chairman, we have seen how some of our women have been humiliated after the death of their husbands just because they did not go to a, b, c, d process. I think African culture should recognize marriage institutions.

The other thing which I want to say Mr. Chairman is, we should recognize and enhance local technology. I want to tell the Conference that one time when the government wanted to build the district headquarters of Liboi, which is bordering Somalia, the elders of that area told the architects that that place was swampy, it was very dangerous and so they should not build in that place. Just because it was from a Somali mouth, people went ahead and invested heavily in the divisional headquarters with about Ksh. 5 million of that time and today nobody is occupying those houses. So I think the culture of the people and their technology should be enhanced. One time I talked of the meteorological department and I want to repeat that the pastoralists can predict rain better than these highly-paid scientists and they should borrow and enhance the local technology.

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Mr. Chairman, the other thing is, all of you are aware that in North Eastern Province, there have been persistent problems, people fighting among themselves, people fighting others because the administrators sent there didn’t look at our culture and family system, but when a Somali PC was posted we sat down and used our system of solving conflict. Today, that province is peaceful but just because he was employed by KANU the NARC government decided to throw him out, not considering the good job he has done. Mr. Chairman, I can rightly say I owe no loyalty to the NARC government, because according to what government is, if you are not represented in it, is not yours. So long as there is nobody in the government who speaks my language, who comes from that area, I can rightly say I have no loyalty to it. Moving from that, Mr. Chairman, there are some people who are really disadvantaged.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Point of order, 593.

Hon. Delegate Gervase A. Akhwabi: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am Delegate number 593 G. B. K Akhwabi, Political Parties. Mr. Chairman, I think it behooves you to stop disorderly conduct in this Conference. It is upon you to stop anybody not properly conducting himself in the Conference. It is not right for an Honourable Delegate to say that he has no loyalty to the Government of the Republic of Kenya and you should reprimand him for that.

Honourable Delegates: No! No! No!

Hon. Delegate Dubat Ali Amey: Mr. Chairman, let me finish the few minutes which are remaining for me.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: You have only one minute.

Hon. Delegate Dubat Ali Amey: Mr. Chairman, it is my humble feeling that there are some small tribes like Shankilla, Burji and Awer who are very small and their culture and languages should be improved.

Page 76 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM The other thing is Mr. Chairman, let us thank the Maasais for conserving their culture which is earning this country a lot of money and I think they should be given some funds for Affirmative Action from the tourist fund. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.

Hon Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: In the next row, I will recognize 594.

Hon. Delegate Orie Rogo Manduli: I am Orie Rogo Manduli from the Political Parties and as you probably are aware already from FORD people. If there is any person who believes in culture it is me. I have fought for this culture that this subject be included but I did not know it was going to be used as it was today, to disrupt our very very serious deliberations. They were disrupted deliberately. Somebody organized for the disruption hoping that they can throw this dignified assembly into disrepute. (inaudible) I am a strong woman who believes that women should be free to do what they wish to pursue but freedom only comes with reason. Freedom comes at the cost of reason and common sense and the kind of freedom that tramples on the freedom of others is not freedom. If your freedom is causing tears and misery to others, there is no freedom. I want to talk like this because I walked out and I just came back. I could not handle it. What I could not handle is the fact that we want all the gains that the women of this country have made, all the work they have done and they have worked very because Kenyan women are very hardworking.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Honourable Delegate, I hope you are not taking us back to a debate we completed.

Hon. Delegate Orie Rogo Manduli: I am not taking you back. I am going forward.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Let us concentrate on Culture.

Hon. Delegate Orie Rogo Manduli: Thank you Chairman. Our Culture is such that - that is our culture. I am talking of the Kenyan Culture – As I know, the women have been the upholders of dignity in this country. The women have been the voice of reason in this country and I want the women to continue being the voice reason. There are certain things that the men do that are not

Page 77 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM right and I am saying that the women folk should not jump in and do the same things because two wrongs do not make a right.

The only way the women of this country will remain strong and have a strong moral ground to correct what is in our culture or in our everyday life is by remaining steadfast. We have thieves but we all know that stealing is wrong. We also have murderers and we do not join the murderers in murdering because we know murdering is wrong. So let the women stay strong. Let the women be given their rightful place in this nation to participate in nation building, to participate in government and everything. I am in the forefront for that but we have to do it from a very strong moral standpoint. We have to do it from a high moral ground and we can do it and we have done it.

At this very important time in our lives, none of the women sitting here today will be here 200 years from now. This Constitution is going forward to show the culture of Kenya and the culture of the Kenyan woman. Those 200 years it will still be there in writing. Let us write something we shall be proud of. Let us write something we will not be ashamed of. More importantly my fellow women- now I am addressing you the lady Delegates - don’t trivialize do not let us spoil all the gains we made over the years, all the sympathies we have from our fellow men. They know that they treated us unfairly and I want that at the end of the Constitutional Conference, the culture component will have been done in such a way that all the unfairness in the cultural component are removed and they are there. Like in widowhood, we know that the widows are not treated well and daughters are not treated well. Those we know, those are the kind of cultures we want to correct and we want to correct them here and now and we will but I want us to proceed as we have. I know that tomorrow, we will be talking about Affirmative Action. Isn’t it? When we talk about Affirmative Action - Mr. Chairman, I am just winding up - I want us to go forward not backwards. I do not want anybody and there are people who are ready to take us backwards, I want us to go forward together with our men. Thank you very much indeed.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: On the next row, I will recognize a Member of Parliament, 218.

Page 78 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Adelina Mwau: Thank you, Chairman. I would like to congratulate the Commission for doing--

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Name and Number?

Hon. Delegate Adelina Mwau: My names are Adelina Ndeto Mwau. I am Delegate 218. I want to say that Culture must be given a Constitutional provision. It must be in our Constitution so I would like to support those who have come up to say this committee that was set up to look at the issue of Culture must be mainstreamed in this Conference.

I would also like to support the speakers who have come up to say, let us teach Culture in our schools. I would like to support this because many of us and many of our children actually are lost. They neither speak Kiswahili nor speak their mother tongue, they are actually Europeans. They cannot name trees in their own mother tongue and they cannot even name insects in their own mother tongue. So we have a generation that is actually lost. So it is important that Culture is taught and examined in schools. So we need to have a curriculum that teaches mother tongue. Let children in Kenya know their mother tongue, learn Kiswahili and let English be their third language together with many other languages. The medium of teaching now has become English so you speak to your child in your own mother tongue and he or she responds in English. It is therefore important because language makes you the person you are. It is important to root our children in Culture and the first thing is for them to learn their culture. There are stories that I was told by my own grandmother. Those stories are not told today because the grand mothers of today actually do not even have those stories. It is important for those stories to be revived, to be taught to children. There are riddles that we used to have in mother tongue and those need to come back. A documentation of these things is therefore very important.

I would also like for us to analyze and rewrite Culture, because there are lots of proverbs and lots of sayings that actually discriminate against the powerless. For example there are lots of sayings that women’s mind are like, Wanawake hawana akili, akili yao ni kama ya squirrel. Those kinds of sayings that women cannot make decisions. We therefore need to rewrite those stories. We need to rewrite the proverbs and we need to rewrite songs, so that we do discriminate against the powerless.

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Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that we need to contain diversity. We have said that culture is dynamic therefore we cannot talk of culture as static. There are mixed marriages for example, so it is important for those children that are being born out of mixed marriages to know their father’s culture and to know their mother’s culture. What is happening now is that the dominant culture, if for example I am married to a Kikuyu, then my children are going to learn their father’s culture, if they are going to learn. So for those mixed cultures, it is important for us to contain and learn that. Let the mother tongue be learnt, let the mother culture be learnt, let the father culture be learnt so that we do not have a dominating culture. Thank you.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: In the next row, I will recognize a district Delegate 317.

Hon. Delegate John Kinuthia Waitiki : Thank you Mr. Chairman. My name is John Waitiki, 317, from Thika. First let me state that we would have made a big mistake had we not considered injecting our culture value and entrenching that in our Constitution. In the same breath I thank the Commissioners for the work done.

Culture is dynamic and at this level if we try to come up with a litany of dos and don’ts we would be making a mistake. What I suggest we should do at this level is give general guidance of what we mean by culture. I would suggest the control and promotion of culture be left to the devolved units because culture cannot be controlled from the top; it is from the grassroots starting from the families. Let me also say that in doing so we must recognize that language is the most important thing in the promotion of culture.

If you examine what we are trying to do today we speak and think in foreign language and since we do not teach mother tongue there is that danger that foreign beliefs and foreign thinking are creeping into our day-to-day lives. In our African way we talk of “Msichana aliolewa na mvulana” but in English we say the boy and the girl marry one another. So it will not be a surprise soon if we shall start hearing “Mariam alioa Juma” and this is perhaps what will end up coming. If that is the case so be it, but let us give it time, let it come naturally then we cannot resist it. Thank you very much.

Page 80 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina : I would like to recognize one of the Lancaster House veterans in the next row so that they tell us why they did not include. 595. Hon. Delegate please.

Hon. Delegate Martin Shikuku : Asante sana Bwana Chairman kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Kule Lancaster House, lazima mfahamu tulienda kwa watu weupe. Shida yetu ya kwanza ni kumngoa mbeberu kutoka hapa. Hii culture tuliwacha kidogo kwa sababu hata Nkrumah alisema “seek ye the political kingdom and the rest shall follow”. So it was not our top priority. Kwa hivyo wacha imekuja, na ninashukuru wewe Bwana Chairman. Kabla sijazungumza nataka kutoa asante kwa Mwenyezi Mungu na pia kwa wajumbe wote ambao waliwahi kuniombea nilipokuwa huko hospitali ICU. Kwa hivo Mungu na asifiwe na nashukuru kwa maombi yenyu.

Pili, Jambo hili la utamaduni tunakubaliana na wale waliosema, na ninapozungumza hutasikia narudia lolote abalo wengine wamesema, ndio maana ya kukaa kwa Conference usirudie yale yaliyosemwa na wengine.

Jambo langu la kwanza ningependa kupendekeza kwamba Waluhya, Wapokomo, Wakikuyu, haya makabila yote yakae na yaandike mila zao na ile mbaya watoe na ile nzuri wawache. Ile mbaya watoe ile nzuri wa wache. Na hiyo iandikwe katika kijitabu, kusema Waluhya ama akina nani wamesikizana kwamba haya ndio tunataka yaandikwe na watoto wote waweze kusoma hizo mila za Kiluhya au Kipokomo au Kiturkana.

Jambo la pili ni habari ya heshima. Saa hii hatuna heshima katika Kenya. Wakiona wazee wanaona hawa wazee hawana maana. Hilo jambo katika Kiluhya walikuwa wanasema hivi: Bibi ni mali ya ukoo huo au hiyo sub-clan. Ukimchezea unacheza na clan nzima, na hata wewe bwana ukimuonea mama, clan yako itakaa chini iseme wewe unaonea binti ya fulani na wewe kutoka leo ujue huyu ni bibi yetu na ukicheza utachapwa pia, wewe mwanamume, na wanakuambia kama hutaki, kwenda utafute malaika wako lakini huyu ndiye wetu.

Pia wakati huo discipline ilikuwako. Ikiwa mtoto amekosa mimi naweza kumchapa na akija kwako wewe baba yake akisema nilichapwa na mzee Shikuku huyo baba yake tena anamchapa, na ndio tukanyooka. Bwana Speaker saa hii tunaambiwa ati mtoto akiwa shule asichapwe

Page 81 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM kiboko. How shall we discipline this nation if a kid cannot be disciplined even by the parents? What are we creating in this nation? We are bringing about anarchy and disorder to this nation.

Pili, jambo lingine ningependa kusema, kuna mambo mengine kama haya ya matanga. Wajaluo, na Wakikuyu na Waluhyia na wasikie kwa sababu mtu akifia watu walikuwa wakileta chakula kwa yule aliyefiwa. Siku hizi matanga ni arusi, watu wanakuja kula badala ya kuleta chakula pale. Jambo kama hilo liondolewe kwa sababu wanafilisi ile familia iliyobaki.

Bwana Speaker siwezi kukaa chini bila kukwambia, katika mila zetu familia maana yake ni bwana na bibi. Hili liandikwe kabisa: bwana na bibi na mtoto, hii maneno yote itaisha, haya maneno tunapata ya fujo hapa. The meaning of a family should be, Mr. Chairman, man and woman and child. Lakini women and women that is not a family: man and man that is not a family; that must be clearly written and we make no bones about it.

Nikimaliza, Bwana Speaker, naunga mkono chapter ya cultural. Mimi na wewe Bwana Chairman tulifanya makosa lazima tuungame hapa. Tulifanya makosa, hili ni jambo tumefikiria baadaye. Culture is an afterthought and this should be shame on us all in this Conference. How come we forgot it? Now we just said an ad hoc, saa hii ndio tunaamka tunasema iwe chapter. This we must agree we made a mistake and we should be frank about it and from now on, Mr. Chairman, this Committee will be a very important Committee and we will make sure that culture is injected in every chapter in this new Constitution we are talking about.

Mr. Chairman, may I sit down by saying this. A nation without discipline is a destroyed nation. Kenya today looks like a nation without discipline. Ukienda barabarani wale matatu wanavyofanya kule hata utashtuka. Hawajali wewe ni mzee. Na wengine ukiweka rule anakuambia wewe mzee utoke barabarani. Niliambia wengine fanya adabu, mimi ni mzee, na ukinipigia kelele nikiku-curse itakushika. Nikikulaani utakufa. Hii lazima iweko -- that respect hata hapa nitachukua wakati huu kuwajulisha Bwana Chairman.

Juzi Mheshimiwa Bwana Oneko alikuja hapa akasema: “mimi nimetembea maili nane kwa matope ndiyo nikapanda basi kuja kwa Conference hii”. Vijana waliokuwa hapa hawakuona hiyo ikiwa mbaya; Hata hii Conference haijaona hiyo ni mbaya. Hata mimi saa hii naambiwa nije na

Page 82 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM public means when I have got a car, niambiwe na wale watoto katika matatu mzee kaa square. Mimi nawezakukaa square Bwana Chairman? Unaona vile adabu inaenda? Wanataka nije na public means when I have got my own car, and I am the only surviving Lancaster House man hapa. Mimi natakiwa nije kwa mguu lakini wale vijana waliozaliwa juzi wana motokaa kubwa hawawezi kunilipa mileage. Hii ,siku moja, mambo yakizidi, nitauliza raia hiyo ni kweli? Wakifanya hivyo wazee kama Oneko?

Kama juzi walienda wakampanguza mate mtu fulani. Niliwaambia tangu hapo watu walioleta uhuru ni watu sita, waangaliwe, hawajaangaliwa, mnafanya siasa nao. Na nyinyi kama hamtoi heshima kwa wale wazee walioko hapa nyinyi pia siku moja mtakuwa wazee na mtafanyiwa maovu kushinda yale mnatafunyia sasa.

Watu waliopigania nchi wasije wakafanywa ati sisi tuko sawa. Yes, tuko sawa, lakini vidole vyote haviko sawa. Pia utaenda mbinguni na mimi sidhani Petro akiingia huko mbinguni atasimama wewe ukae. Lazima tutoe heshima na ikiwa mna-treat wale wazee vile mna-treat hawa wengine mtapata cha mtema kuni katika siku zijazo. Asante Bwana Chairman.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: We go to the next lot but I will ask the honourable Delegates not to curse us because we still want to survive in this nation. So I will recognize 405.

Hon. Delegate Fibie Ochola Atieno: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman, I am number 405, Fibie Atieno Ochola, a district delegate from Kisumu District. I want to join my fellow Honourable delegates in commending the Commissioners and the Taskforce for bring unto us the culture to be discussed in this Conference.

Mr. Chairman, I am a Luo and I have a few things that I am going to say: as Luos, culture was intended to protect the society, it was an insurance cover. Because I want to give an example when the Luos were removing the six teeth that was an identity, to identify the Luos from the rest of the people and another issue was, whenever a Luo was sick and could not take drugs, that was going to be used to give drugs and to feed the person, to protect that life, that is why I say culture was intended to protect the society.

Page 83 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM There is another thing, in early marriages Mr. Chairman, I want to say that our Constitution should be entrenched, early marriages on girls, young girls being married off before they are old enough to get married, this should be banned in our Constitution. Because hata hakuna kati yetu mtu ambayo ako na shamba anaenda kuvuna maindi ambayo haijaiva, na why do we marry off our young girls before they are mature enough?

Mr. Chairman, there was an issue of promoting inter-tribal marriages. Marriage is also another way of ensuring the continuity of a society. When we promote inter-tribal marriages, I want to say biblically, God was against inter-tribal marriages, he told his servant that it is not right for you to marry from other people because you are going to copy them and I know there are some societies that God destroyed completely on the face of the earth because of inter-marriages. But I want to say that in the Luo community we had Lwanda Magere, we had enemies around when the Nandis wanted to know where his strength was, they gave him a girl and that girl got to know where his strength was and he was killed.

In the bible, when the Philistines were fighting the Israelites, Samson was given Deleila and she came to know where his strength was and that is how the Philistines killed Samson. But when we come to creating peace and given that in our Anthem we say, ‘may we dwell in unity, peace and liberty’, and we want to live as a society in Kenya, we now say that Solomon married from all over the people around him, so that he created peace with them and I think Solomon was also one of the greatest Kings in Israel but I want to say this, peace is going to be there just as I have said that culture is to protect a society or a community. Let our sons marry the daughters from other tribes but let those girls come--- if you come to marry my daughter, I am going to give you my daughter to go to Taita and let her remain a Taita and copy the Taita culture and everything (clapping. ) Not to go there with a Luo culture and then to mix up those people and to destroy them (clapping).

In language Mr. Chairman, when we want to protect our language, there is no way we are going to protect our language when, we marry, ‘lugha ni ya mama’. If I marry from my colleague here – she is not there – when my son marries from there, mama akinyonyesha mtoto anasema na yeye lugha yake. Mtoto akiwa hajui lugha ya Kijaluo na ameolewa na Mjaluo, sasa that is how we are also destroying our tribes and our languages. So in inter-tribal marriages some languages

Page 84 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM are getting destroyed. Culture was intended to protect our society Mr. Chairman as an insurance cover because God did create me a Luo, there was no mistake. He meant to create me a Luo.

Let us ensure that these societies are living in harmony. If inter-marriage is going to create harmony between the societies, let it be entrenched in the Constitution. When a girl marries from another tribe, the girl comes and belongs to the society. Mr. Chairman, that is all I had for now. Thank you very much.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. In this row, I would like to recognize Mzee Githu Kahengeri, number 316.

Hon. Delegate John Sambu: Point of Order!

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Number 183.

Hon. Delegate Gitu Kahengeri: Shukrani sana Bwana mwenyekiti

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Point of order, number 183.

Hon. Delegate John Sambu: I am on a point of order my number is 183, my name is John Sambu, MP Mosop. I want historical record to be put straight, that is why I am on a point of order . When Hon. Kipkalya Kones spoke, Mr. Chairman, he did say that Koitalel Samoei was a Kipsigis leader who led the rebellion of the Kipsigis and was killed or taken to detention and killed in Nyeri. For the records, I want it written in history that Koitalel Samoei was the leader of Nandi people, he was the Nandi Laibon who led the Nandis against the British resistance (clapping) or resistance against the British rule and we know where he was killed, he was killed on 19 th October 1905 at Kesfara near Nandi Hills and so he did not die in Nyeri, he was killed by a Colonel Manhattan, a British Colonel in Nandi Hills and that is why I want the record straight because I do not want to hear something that I know has been put on record and it is not straight. Thank you.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you for your historical fact, Mzee Gitu.

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Hon. Delegate Gitu wa Kahengeri: Shukrani mwenyekiti. Jina langu ni Gitu wa Kahengeri, Delegate number 316 kutoka Thika. Bwana mwenyekiti, mimi nina maneno kadha ambayo mimi nataka kujulisha delegates waliyo hapa kwa sababu wengi wao wamekuja katika dunia hii nyuma yangu. Kitu moja mimi nataka kusema ni ya kwamba tumechukua mila ya Waingereza na mnajua Waingereza, ndio ambao watu walikataa na uhuru wetu, walichukuwa vichaka vyetu na kwa hivyo wanataka mpaka sasa, sisi tuwe watu wasio na mila na ambao kwa kila njia hawawezi kusikilisana. Tuna watu wetu ambao sasa wamesoma na mimi nasikitika sana kwa sababu wengine, hawajui hata kuzungumza katika lugha ya mama yao. Na wamekwenda zaidi ya kwamba katika malishe ya watoto wao wamewafundisha ya kwamba si haki kusikilika ukizungumza Kijaluo au Kikikuyu au Kisomalia. Anataka tu mtoto azungumze Kiengereza. Hii itamaliza sisi kabisa ikiwa tutaendelea kwa miaka mingine hamsini. Mtakuja kujiona hata wengine wanataka kuitwa a British. Hiyo nitawacha na niseme wale walioko hapa na watakaporudi kwao nyumbani, waeleze watu ambao ni katika nchi yetu mila zetu ni lazima zifwatwe.

Jambo la pili, wakati tulipokuwa tukisomewa tuliambiwa habari Ya African Socialism Sessional Paper No.10. Hii ilitolewa tu si kwa makusudi ya kutengeneza habari za watu wa nchi ya Kenya, kukawa pamoja wakiwa na mila zao, ilitengenezwa tu kupumbaza sisi kwa sababu viongozi hawakufwata hiyo ili kuwaonyesha watoto wetu desturi ya kukaa na mila zetu.

Nitaenda zaidi ni seme lugha zetu ambazo sisi tunazungumza, mimi ningependa kila lugha ya nchi hii, kuna lugha moja nilijua ya Wata hapo mbele hatukusikia sana habari ya Wata. Lakini mimi ningependa lugha zote ambazo zinazungumzwa katika nchi yetu ziwekwe katiba yetu. Hiyo mila zetu nitawacha hapo.

Nitakwenda mahali ya television na radio. Mimi wakati mwingine, nafunga TV tu kwa sababu kutokea mwanzo mpaka mwisho ni picha ya Wazungu wanaofanya mambo machafu na sisi tunaendelea kufanya hivyo. Mimi naulizaje kama KBC ni television ya wananchi wa Kenya, ni nani anaruhusu mambo haya, kwa nini ilionekana ya kwamba tukiona Wakalenjin wakicheza, Wagiriama wakicheza, Wajaluo wakicheza, kwani sisi tukiwaona wakicheza tutakuwa wagonjwa? (Clapping) Hiyo ni mambo ambayo mimi ningesema wale wanaoweza kupata yule

Page 86 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM Minister anaitwa Hon. Tuju aangalie mambo hayo. Sisi tunataka kuona mambo ya watu wa nchi yetu. Hiyo nitamaliza hapo vile vile.

Mimi ningesema labda litakuwa la mwisho ya kwamba wakati ambapo tutafika mahali pa kufanya recommendation, mimi ningependelea iweko na Commission ya Culture katika nchi yetu. Na katika Commission hiyo, iwe imehusishwa makabila yote ya nchi ya Kenya. Ndio nini, wakiwa wanazungumza katika mambo ya Commission hiyo, kila kabila mambo yake yanaangaliwa.

Nitakwenda la mwisho, ya kwamba mambo mengi ya nchi hii “advert” inachukuliwa na Wazungu waliokuwa hapa. Maana ninyi hamkujua kama watu hawa walikuwa hatari? Lakini tunajaribu kuwaambia ninyi, na kwa sababu mmeenda sana ndani yake, ndani ya hawa, hamfahamu “advert” yote yetu, kila kitu chetu kilichukuliwa na hawa. Kwa hivyo wakati tutakapounda chama hiki cha Culture Commission ni lazima vile vitu vyetu vilichukuliwa na serikali ya mbeberu virudishwe katika nchi hii yetu. (Clapping)

Wakati nilipokuwa nikitelemka nilisikia Hon. Shikuku ambaye ni mzee kama mimi akizungumza habari ya Matatu. Na ni kweli mambo haya ni ya haki kabisa hata ninyi ambao si wazee kama sisi mnatendewa tu vibaya vile vile na wale vijana ambao hawajajua habari ya Culture ya nchi yetu. Na ni bahati mbaya kwa sababu si makosa yao Serikali yetu haijachukua jukumu kamili kuelimisha watu wa nchi hii wafwate mtindo wa watu wa nchi ya Kenya.

Sijui kwa nini watu wanafikiria Waingereza Wagerumani na watu wengine ndio watu wa muhimu kuliko watu wengine wanaoishi katika dunia kwa sababu nilitembea kwa mtu moja ambaye amesoma mwenye kusoma halafu jambo la kwanza aliponiambia nilipofika kwake ni ya kwamba, “you know these children cannot speak Kikuyu, you had better speak to them in English”. Na huyu mtu ni jirani wangu katika kijiji. Niliona machungu kwa sababu niliona kweli hafahamu sisi kwa nini tuliundwa watu weusi na tukawekwa katika nchi ya Kenya. Tukisistahili sisi hata wakati mmoja mtakwenda kuona Wazungu, wakipenda kuja hapa wakitamani mila zetu, desturi zetu na wakazifwata. Uingereza ilikuwa kichakani tu kama hapa Bomas of Kenya lakini watu wake walitia bidii wakajenga mpaka sasa mnaona watu wanahangaika nitakwenda UK, nitakwenda Amerika na mahali pengine. Ndugu zanguni

Page 87 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM mkirudi nyumbani na hata wakati huu lazima tujaribu kuwasomesha watoto wetu kuwa na fahari juu ya nchi yetu. Shukrani.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. I would like us to have the last speaker for this afternoon and I would like to ask for your indulgence to allow me to welcome other veteran, that is Dennis Akumu, so that we can benefit from his wisdom.

Hon. Delegate Dennis Akumu: I want to thank you Chairman very much for giving me a few minutes. Practically everything I wanted to say has been said, and I really want to congratulate the task force for a very, very good job. Let me tell you that at Lancaster, Shikuku and I and others were not insiders; we were outsiders. We were lobbing, we were in the committees. Kiano was inside. I and Joseph Paul Mathenge and others tried to bring the question of culture, the British lawyer told us “No. You people had no culture. Go back and … (inaudible) what is wrong with you people?” So we asked Kiano, “Please go inside and tell Odinga, Mboya and others to raise this.” We were told, “No, you might delay independence. Allow this, when we go back, a sovereign Government in three years time, 64-65, we call a huge all Kenya Conference, we will work out on our own culture.” You what has happened; it is forty years now.

Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you, it is very sad that today, as you go round Nairobi, the statistic is showing – not my age group, the younger group-, that three out ten, their children do not even speak their mother tongue. I mean, only three out of ten can speak their mother tongue; the rest cannot. I was at a club where a young man said to another “what is wrong with you? Why did you bring this old man of 85 years? He should live in the rural areas to die there.” We have lost our culture. And anybody who wants to ruins you, who wants to destroy you, the first thing they do anywhere in the world, is to destroy your culture. To make you not to be yourself. And they are succeeding in Africa, am afraid. They have failed in China, they have failed in Japan – go there, they are technologically advanced, they copy the …(inaudible), but a Japanese is a Japanese. They still greet each other the Japanese way. The same, India has gone back. And the Arabs, since Nasser revolution, are trying to go back. There are people who are busy copying the British and the French, they want to speak perfect English, they want to copy their culture and their way and are the Africans. Please, I want to plead with you, what …(inaudible) has said, what Shikuku had said, if you can, lets have this cultural committee be a technical committee.

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Let me mention one or two things and then I finish. In 1959, before the first Lancaster and second, Pio Pinto was in detention. He wrote to me as a general of the workers saying, “at Hola near you there, eleven people have been massacred by the British, ten Kikuyus and one Turkana.” I can circulate the names for you tomorrow. The Turkana I think I knew was called Ekiro but among the Kikuyus, number two, was called Ndung’u Kibaki. We wrote letters to (Inaudible) the thing brought uproar. There is a memorial college today, a Girls’ secondary in Hola, where those eleven names were named. I have not heard anybody complaining here about people who were killed. In India they are claiming, in China they are claiming, everywhere, people are claiming they lost their people because you know the enemy who killed these people. Don’t you people know them?

I have not heard of any other Conference like this one here, this is the first sovereign Conference of Kenyans, discussing all Kenya problems, going to lay claims against enemies of Kenyans who have robbed us our culture, stolen our wealth, taken our artifacts, destroyed ourselves; I haven’t heard it. I have been here faithfully, in the first session and this session, I have been here. So I am sure that you people will put the claim across. They destroyed your culture, they killed the Mijikenda, the Nandi, they massacred many people and so on. They culturally did this, they took your land, some of them still own it up to now. They stole some of the artifacts, some of your cultural traits, your shrines, how do you explain this? Kenyatta himself, when he was in Britain, what did he write in the dedication book “Facing Mt. Kenya?” That the fight is for the dispossessed people of Africa, it is the perpetuation of the communion. And I firmly believe that the dead, the unborn and the living shall unite to reveal the destroyed land or you will have failed the society, because you will never have another Conference like this. We are lucky there was pressure on President Moi, so he did it half way. We are lucky that President Kibaki has kept his word.

It will take another a hundred years to have a Conference and posterity will never excuse you. So please I plead with you. Strengthen a Nation, the nation which knows who they are, where they come from and culturally we are not fifty as was said there, we are over eighty. However small an ethnic group is, let their language be known, let them keep their culture, let them be together.

Page 89 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM And in another fifty to hundred years, let us have a Parliament of multi-language. Other Parliaments have ten languages, five; people speak different languages, and so on.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I am grateful. Chairman, thank you very much, but please, strengthen the committee, we will come back and pin you on this. I thank the leaders of Malibu who have spoken, I thank Shikuku for raising this, I am very grateful to you people – the Task Force - that was good work you have done. Let us see how we make this part of our day. God Bless you people. Thank you.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. Yes, No. 484.

Hon. Delegate Sylvester Wafula: My name is Sylvester Wafula. Bwana Chairman, I find that it may not be in order for us to forget the person who struggled in May, to bring this issue to this Conference, a chance to contribute. What I mean is, Paul Nakitare really struggled to bring this issue to this house and he has not been given a chance at all to contribute. I find it-- (C lapping).

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much. I think the claps show that everybody would like to listen to him, so, Paul Nakitare Please.

Hon. Delegate Paul Nakitare: Thank you, Honourable Chair. I tried very hard to be recognized but it was not easy. But let me say how very grateful I am that this particular decision has now matured. And the reason why I say so, is because of every single thing that everyone has about culture. I would not like to repeat, but I would like to support everything completely. And I am particularly very grateful about the fact that I hope the Conference will support the idea of a technical committee because, as everyone has said, culture is our national foundation. And culture also, is the constitution, the unwritten constitution of everyone of our communities. So it is wonderful that as I stand here, this honorable and August Conference supports this particular idea. And may I also, honorable Chair, contribute very briefly, as an …(inaudible) steward of the Commission, the task force that has done this very excellent job. Because, my question of course is, where do we go after this very excellent contribution, where do we go from here? Even when we go to the committees, honorable Chair, we need to have the kind of Draft that every other

Page 90 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM committee is going to have. And for that reason, if you will allow me, let me just make my very humble contribution in support of what the task force has done.

I would like to very quickly, hoping that I will not bore you, go through the major goals and principles that this committee will look at when they start. And very quickly, one is, to reflect in the constitution, useful and practical Kenyan traditions relating to the family, marriage, child socialization, leadership, land, environment, rights, integrity, leisure and worship. To capture the institutions which facilitate the cultural expression practices, to portray cultural preservation modalities, to capture the contribution of culture in social economic development, to reflect the role of traditional cultural practices in the health management endeavors through herbal dispensation. To capture the role of traditional dispute resolution in matters of land and family institutions; to isolate repugnant cultural traditions for rejection and prohibition. To recognize cultural invention in traditional and intellectual properties for protection and patterning. To prevent the illicit trafficking of cultural artifacts from the republic of Kenya, to reflect the place of languages, both official, and indigenous, in communication and educational processes. To reflect the use of traditional food and crops including culinary arts for food security. To capture the wisdom of the still living sages by enlisting their contribution, to preserve the ecological and environmental habitats and to safeguard such resources as herbal medicinal plantation, forest and (Inaudible).

Having said that, Honorable Chair, then the provision that the committee can deal with can include, for example, that the state shall respect and encourage the values inherent in the African extended family systems, including the care of children, the senior citizens, persons with disability, the orphans, including marriage typologies. The state shall encourage and promote the role of the wisdom enshrined in the community sages, in all aspects of socio-economic and education affairs, including land, environment, integrity, leadership, arbitration matters touching on cultural traditions.

The State shall generally respect the customs and values of different communities, except those, which are retrogressive, repugnant, harmful, depraved, even to the communities by whom they are professed.

Page 91 of 93 Last printed 1/26/2006 11:54:00 PM The State shall prohibit the importation of alien and repugnant cultural trends of other States and nations, which reflects the moral fabric of the Kenyan nation. The State shall encourage and promote the preservation of all the Kenyan traditions by means of modern technologies, including print and film for future generation and also for education purposes. The State shall establish, encourage and maintain institutions which facilitate cultural expression and preservation including among others, art galleries, theaters museums, archives, cultural centers, conservation laboratories, national political monuments, recording studios and televisions.

Also honorable Chair, the State shall facilitate the economic contributions of the cultural phenomena, including employment creation, within the scope of performing arts, which include dance, drama, acrobatics, theater, music, plays, games and sports. And visual arts, which include painting, fine arts, national dress or costume, historical monuments, scenic sites, and tourist attractions, religious shrines, artifacts and ornaments. And also that the State shall promote and encourage cultural creativity, in the areas of traditional technology, traditional herbal medicinal dispensation, protection and observe such intellectual property and the protection of the same from illegal trafficking and expatriation, which include movable and immovable cultural property. The State shall in addition to the major languages of Kiswahili, English, sign and Braille, encourage and promote indigenous African languages, in which children shall first become literate and encourage developed facilities for teaching in schools.

The State shall promote and formalize the dispensation of traditional medicine throughout the republic, throughout the public health institutions including activating the role of the Kenya Medical Research Institute, in traditional medicinal research and shall further recognize traditional medical practitioners.

The state shall encourage and promote the development of and consumption, and marketing of traditional food and food crops, including indigenous or traditional vegetables, cereals, cheaper plants, and the concomitant culinary arts. And the State shall prohibit unnatural forms of marriages and intoxicating substances including: harborages, bang’, marijuana and such categories. That the State shall ensure adequate popularization of Kenyan culture through media house such as radio, television and cinema houses, so as to counter excessive and adverse foreign cultural influences.

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And finally, to implement fully the provision of this Chapter, the State shall create, under Chapter 17, a special purpose cultural heritage, national pride and national identity commission. These are my suggestions and I also have similar suggestions about the formation of a possible commission that will see to the implementation of this particular principle. Because one thing, discuss several issues and, if they are not implemented, then of course we shall not follow what other honorable delegates have said.

I don’t want to bore you, but I want to thank you so much honorable Chair for your chance. Thank you.

Hon. Delegate Wilfred Ole Kina: Thank you very much for your great contribution. That was our last contributor this afternoon and I would like to thank you all very, very much for your patience, and hope that we will continue being patient, even when we break into our technical committees. We are coming back tomorrow for Devolution and probably Affirmative Action. So, I would like to formally adjourn this afternoon. Thank you very much.

The meeting was adjourned at 4.45 p.m.

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