THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Mark-Mary: You're listening to the Poco a Poco Podcast, sponsored by Spirit Juice Studios. (singing) Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Poco a Poco Podcast. This is Father Mark-Mary.
Father Angelus: And Father Angelus.
Father Innocent: And Father Innocent.
Father Mark-Mary: And Father Innocent.
Father Innocent: We are here.
Father Mark-Mary: We are the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal. We are pumped to be here with you. Welcome.
Father Innocent: Very excited to be back.
Father Mark-Mary: Thank you, Spirit Juice Studios. You guys rock. Thanks for making this happen. Check them out for your own good. Facebook.com/SpiritJuice. Again, until we get to that number 2,000, I'll be quiet. I'll be quiet. Any help in giving us a little rating would be helpful. We're just trying to put that at the beginning. All right, boys. Update, what are some updates? Father Innocent is my superior now.
Father Innocent: Come on.
Father Angelus: Father Mark-Mary has moved into the house.
Father Innocent: It's just best if you do what I say, Father Mark-Mary. This is going to go well if you just do what I say.
Father Angelus: Father Mark-Mary, you've got to push back a little bit.
Father Mark-Mary: Is that how it works?
Father Angelus: Early on, you've got to push back.
Father Mark-Mary: All right, set the boundaries. That's what Saint Francis said. Just moved from the Bronx to Harlem. The band is reunited.
Father Angelus: Very happy to have you.
Father Innocent: It's going to be a whole lot easier doing this podcast.
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, it's going to be a heck of a lot easier. It's summer. We're in the basement, St. Joseph's table.
Father Angelus: It's hot.
Father Mark-Mary: You guys don't do heat that well.
Father Angelus: You just asked us to turn off the fan, and now I'm sweaty.
Father Mark-Mary: That's true. Be prepared, Father Angelus might...
Father Angelus: You like the heat.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, I like the heat.
Father Angelus: What is that all about?
Father Mark-Mary: Father Ang just might start crying because of it.
Father Innocent: Crying because it's hot.
Father Mark-Mary: One of things is, I'm commuting to the Bronx, because I still work in the office there, by walking.
Father Innocent: How is that going for you?
Father Mark-Mary: I've been sweating nonstop for the last week. It's all right, I don't mind.
Father Innocent: What's the walk like?
Father Mark-Mary: It's cool, it's interesting.
Father Innocent: How long, about 45 minutes?
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, about 45 minutes.
Father Innocent: That's not bad.
Father Mark-Mary: No, it's not bad. The streets are so interesting. There's a lot of people. You see some folks every now and then. I'm working on my mask tan.
Father Angelus: Excuse me?
Father Innocent: Wow, you wear a mask?
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Angelus: You do that?
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, I do the mask. I mean, it's a populated city.
Father Angelus: Oh, a mask.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, I'm walking out in the sun with a mask on.
Father Angelus: You walk with a mask on?
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah. Hello, welcome to...
Father Innocent: 2020.
Father Mark-Mary: 2020, dude.
Father Innocent: Mid New York City 2020.
Father Angelus: I don't walk outside with a mask on. When I go in places, I have a mask on. I have a mask on me, but I don't... just social distance, bro.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, walk from here to the Bronx social distancing. Good luck with that. Father Angelus...
Father Angelus: Yeah, can you tell I just got back from retreat?
Father Mark-Mary: Father Ang just got back from retreat.
Father Innocent: What you don't see is Father Angelus has a veil over his face.
Father Angelus: Radiant face, radiant face. Actually, first time, we have a solitude every year. We've talked about that before I think, but eight days. I did the full eight days. It was a guided retreat. One of our brothers, Brother Elijah, was really blessed. Retreat, guys. Oh man, I feel like we're all kind of in transition a little bit. New guys at the house, new jobs, new responsibilities, new stuff going on. I just became the vocation director, and just spiritually-
Father Innocent: You kind of just dropped that.
Father Mark-Mary: That's a big thing, bro.
Father Innocent: You just dropped that.
Father Mark-Mary: That's a big thing.
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Angelus: There's a team. There's another guy.
Father Mark-Mary: If you know any young men between...
Father Angelus: Yeah, 21 to 35. Healthy, holy, desiring the Lord. Just freeing up and maybe open to what the Lord is doing. Yeah, it's a beautiful gift. I just needed a spiritual way to enter into that, just reality, and just take a break from this last year. It was really great. We're going to talk a little bit about that today, the theme on experiencing true rest in the Lord. I'll share more, but I'm really looking forward to it. I was really blessed, guys. It was really an experience that if we give the Lord space, he's really faithful.
Father Innocent: Amen.
Father Angelus: Super grateful. I just come back with a grateful heart. Come back to the craziness of course, right? The craziness of the neighborhood. Plenty of stuff to do. We're getting ready to do some other things and some other traveling too, so get ready for that. The Lord is super faithful. It was just really good.
Father Mark-Mary: Are you less of a meany-pants since you got back?
Father Innocent: Yeah, he has changed. It's only been a couple days. Too early to tell.
Father Angelus: First of all, if I was ever mean to you, you deserved it.
Father Mark-Mary: All right, so here's what we're doing. We're in the middle of a series. We're continuing to follow more or less the chapters of The Way of the Disciple, which is a book by Erasmo Leiva-Merikakis. And just going into him a little bit. We're going to look at, first of all, it really is a great read. Again, we don't get whatever that's called, money.
Father Angelus: Endorsements.
Father Mark-Mary: Endorsements, whatever. Treasure in heaven. Only treasure in heaven, folks. This is a good book. It's chapter two, Invitation: Come to Me. We're going to read. It's one of our favorites certainly. It's probably one of your favorites. The end of chapter 11 in the gospel of Matthew. All right, ready? Should I read it?
Father Innocent: Please.
Father Angelus: Let's do it, bro.
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Mark-Mary: This is starting at verse 25. At that time, Jesus declared, "I thank you, father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding, and revealed them to infants. Yes father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been delivered to me by my father. No one knows the son except the father, and no one knows the father except the son. Anyone to whom the son chooses to reveal him, come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden. I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart. You will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light." Do you guys have anything that you want to kick it off with?
Father Innocent: My heart is moved by this passage pretty regularly. It's an incredible place of prayer. What I'm struck with, and I think that can orient some sort of our conversation today, is it's beautiful that Jesus gives a striking word. He says that all things have been hand delivered to me by my father. No one knows the son except the father. No one knows the father except the son, and anyone to whom the son chooses to reveal him. We can't know the father without the son. Thank God it doesn't end there. If I can't know the father without the sun, Jesus, you've got to teach me.
Father Innocent: You've got to bring me closer. You've got to do this for me. This is what we're waiting for. It's like okay, Lord Jesus, what are you going to do? In a masterly way, what are the next words? Come to me. It's almost like Merikakis goes on to say that he turns. He's proclaiming this truth, and he turns to his disciples. He says, "Now, I'm going to be the son that reveals the father. Come to me." This is the invitation to intimacy.
Father Innocent: Now he's going to make this a reality, this coming to the father that we can't do by ourselves, that we can't figure out by ourselves. Now he's turning to us, looking at us and saying, "Now you come to me." Brothers, it's beautiful. We've talked about a lot that Jesus, his own merciful heart, Jesus, the good shepherd Jesus. The one that goes out in search of the one who is lost. Jesus is doing the work. Now he turns to us and says, "Now you come to me." Now we have to come. We have to let go. We have to trust. Now it's like, okay, whoa.
Father Innocent: That's a challenge. Will I come to you, Lord? If you're the only one that can reveal the father to me and you're asking me to come to you, will I come? Will I let go? Will I run to you? It's almost like now, we have to do the work. Jesus is not coming out in search for us now. He's looking at us saying, "Now you come to me." I think that's a good starting place. With the gaze of Jesus on us, are we willing to come to him? Are we willing to do the work, like we talked about, of the spiritual life, to let go of everything and come to him?
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Angelus: I think it's just important because we can get caught in our heads a little bit. This is a nice idea.
Father Innocent: A nice idea, nice words. It becomes this reality where these are nice thoughts. The father and Jesus invite me to them. They invite me to have rest. It can be nice thoughts, but the challenge is this invitation to not just have it be in my mind. But what does it mean to offer my heart to this truth? What does it mean to realize that the father pursues me and turns to me in the person of his son and says, "Come to me," and gives this invitation? It's beautiful, brothers, to get outside of our heads sometimes.
Father Innocent: We talked about this before, that thinking is not just praying. Thinking is not actually the end of prayer, where I am able to think about how nice these things are. What does it mean for my heart to be open to this truth that Jesus is looking at me saying, "Come to me?" Jesus is looking at me, inviting me to have the posture of a child. Inviting me to have the posture of a son or daughter. That it is the in need that looks to him, and feels little, and feels small, and feels the sense that we can't do it. We are able to realize that he's the one that does it for us. He's the one that invites us, for us. It's just such a beautiful invitation. When we can get out of our heads and into our hearts, it's profound that the father sends his son so this relationship and this movement of the heart can happen.
Father Mark-Mary: Just a little explanation here. We're recording on the street here in Harlem. You might be getting some of the Harlem noise.
Father Angelus: Which is kind of cool, right?
Father Mark-Mary: It could be cool.
Father Innocent: For the audio, it's not very cool.
Father Mark-Mary: Or it could be annoying. If it's good ambiance, I'm grateful. If it's annoying...
Father Angelus: Sorry.
Father Mark-Mary: Sorry.
Father Angelus: It's kind of urban-like.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, this is it.
Father Angelus: This is it.
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Mark-Mary: Our rule talks about how the Friars, part of our life of penance is just gratefully accepting, receiving the annoyances of big city living.
Father Angelus: And the heat.
Father Innocent: Also, the fan off right now.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah. Also, when your brother just won't stop complaining.
Father Innocent: Wow. I have not complained at all.
Father Mark-Mary: All right, let's get back to rest. We covered a little bit of the first part, right? As we opened, speaking with the chapter on Merikakis, we talked about God's invitation of his call to be with me, right? In that part, we were really focusing on the way in which a very concrete, privileged place to come to Jesus is the scripture. What's the line that you brought up at the beginning? Something along the lines of, "You can't be a disciple without being a contemplate." Something like that.
Father Innocent: Yeah, you can't be a disciple.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah. We really do need this life of prayer in relationship with the Lord. And this privileged place is the scripture. Again, to shout out, we talked about it recently. But again, the privileged place. You've got to have a relationship with scripture. Just to build off of what Father Innocent was saying there as well, let me find the chapter here. Let me find the page. 49, page 49.
Father Innocent: Erasmo here.
Father Mark-Mary: For those of you following us at home, please turn to page 49. [Latin 00:11:50]
Father Angelus: Is that Latin?
Father Mark-Mary: That's Latin. All right, Father Angelus has got the right language. Do you know what that means, Father Innocent?
Father Innocent: Rest that requires effort.
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Angelus: You have that book right in front of you. Don't pretend that-
Father Mark-Mary: Say it again into the microphone.
Father Innocent: Rest that requires effort.
Father Mark-Mary: I think that's kind of what you're saying. We said this before. It doesn't begin with me. It's not dependent on me, it doesn't end with me because God is in it, but it does require our participation and our response.
Father Angelus: And it's hard work.
Father Mark-Mary: And it's hard work.
Father Innocent: Right, this is the work of the spiritual life.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah. We want rest, but we've got to... It's the fruit of labor. Come to me and I will give you rest. It's not just the rest that is going to be received sitting on your couch eating bonbons.
Father Angelus: Going back to the bonbons. It's different. It's not the rest that we think of as an escape from the world. It's not a rest to escape from my problems or escape from my weakness. I think deep down, that's what we want. I want to know that prayer is going to be the answer to all my life's difficulties and make my life perfect. Everything is just going to recede into the background. Life is going to be incredible and there's going to be no suffering. That's not the rest Jesus is talking about, because the rest that he wants to give us is a rest in relationship. Again, how many times do I say that?
Father Angelus: It's a rest in relationship with him. It's the choosing every single day to stay in that place of prayer, to stay in that place of intimacy even when it's difficult, right? I can't explain it, but brothers and sisters, if we stay in this place, then suffering becomes different. The labor of life, the labor of... we can talk about our life here. The labor of our penances, the labor of our fraternal life. We can talk about the labor of marriage and raising kids. If we stay in relationship with Jesus and that intimacy is flowing, then the rest is there and it becomes different. It's not like we're burdened by life. It's not like we're crushed by life, but there is this strange rest because we are living in relationship with Jesus.
Father Innocent: I think it's important to recognize too that Jesus lived this rest. Jesus modeled this rest. What was this rest? This rest was the gift. Also, the rest of the father at creation. This rest where the father gazes upon his work, and has this contemplative look upon his life and what he created. When we are living in
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
relationship with God, and we can step back and look at the blessings, and live in gratitude to how much God is present. How much he comes in his patience and mercy, and how much he is able to allow me to be a follower of him. Whether I'm married, or in religious life, or in the world, or whatever it might be.
Father Innocent: I can take a step back and look at that, and see that, and gaze upon that. Then I can be at peace because I'm like, "Well, God is working and God is here." This is the rest that ultimately is a gift. We don't conjure up this rest because I follow Jesus. This rest is given because I can take a step back and see the way the Lord works in my life, and the way the holy spirit works in my life. It's a fruit of trusting that, of living in that.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah. Let's get into it a little bit. What is this rest? Again, on page 49, Leiva- Merikakis, now Father Simeon, has a really good reminder. It's not resting up in order to get back to the daily toils of life. It's not just recreation or distraction or vacation, all of which are ordered to the serious part of life. It's not just taking a break. That's not the rest that Jesus is giving you. Okay, relax. But it's a rest which endures and pervades all areas of life, even when your hand is to the plow, your hand is still to the plow.
Father Innocent: You got it, yeah.
Father Mark-Mary: Thank you. Do you have something, Father Innocent?
Father Innocent: No, I'm right with you.
Father Mark-Mary: Here, we're going to take a step back. We're going to talk about a couple of things. First of all, let's just talk about how much we love the Abiding Together women.
Father Innocent: How much we love...
Father Mark-Mary: And admire and reverence them. Half the emails we get now reference the Abiding Together ladies. One was a little suspect whether or not there was a bit of a negative spirit in our joking. There's no negative spirit.
Father Innocent: None whatsoever.
Father Angelus: We just want to throw that out there and be very clear.
Father Mark-Mary: Also, we got spies out there, just so you know. One of our spies is in the Abiding Together Facebook group. I think it's a private group, and someone made some reference like, "Am I getting kicked out if I say that I'm enjoying
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
the Poco a Poco Podcast?" Whoever you are, thank you for that. If you get kicked out, you're welcome here.
Father Angelus: You're very welcome on the Facebook pages that we have.
Father Mark-Mary: But today, instead of trolling the Abiding Together ladies, I'm going to come after... There's this young lady. We'll call her MC. MC, she's been trolling me a little bit. I run her social media. Trolling means giving a hard time to. I gave this talk at FOCUS. You guys know FOCUS?
Father Angelus: Yeah.
Father Innocent: Oh, yeah.
Father Mark-Mary: FOCUS, Fellowship of Catholic Young Adult Students.
Father Angelus: University students, yeah.
Father Mark-Mary: University students. Say it again. What is it?
Father Angelus: Fellowship of Catholic University Students.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah.
Father Angelus: FOCUS, it's spelled out.
Father Mark-Mary: Oh.
Father Angelus: Yeah.
Father Mark-Mary: Thanks, Father Angelus. We're going to go a long time on this one just to keep you in the heat.
Father Angelus: Is this episode [crosstalk 00:17:59]
Father Mark-Mary: It says everybody. I was helping out with one of their discernment weekends, which is when one of these college students, really bright, really beautiful young people. Full of hope, full of faith. Really a great experience of the hopefulness for the church. They're discerning basically giving two years of their life as FOCUS missionaries. Which involves a number of things, like a dating fast, some fundraising, and an obedience. You can get sent wherever you go. There's a lot of parallels to our life. The closing little hum I give is, "Everybody chill." I was using chill as an equivalent to rest, because you can get...
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Angelus: That's creative. I liked it.
Father Mark-Mary: Thank you. I liked it. Our girl MC was giving me a hard time for it. She's about to be a sister of life, so we're going to give up on trolling Abiding Together and give a hard time to our friend who is about to become a sister of life. Love you. I bring it up because I think, okay, we can get so anxious we can lose our rest. We can get so anxious, so worked up, feel this burden of trying to figure everything out, of thinking that... It's essentially a burden of trying to live life without confidence in the father. It's like, rest. It's like, chill. God is going to take care of you. I can do it because it's like, you're freaking out about your dating fast for one year.
Father Angelus: Chill out, dude.
Father Innocent: It's fine.
Father Mark-Mary: You've got to chill. You're going to fundraise for whatever. It's like, a vow of poverty, chill. You know what I mean? The chill that I'm saying is not just like, "Don't worry about it. It's not a big deal." It's the chill of, okay, you know what? I hear you, I see you. But I've also experienced God in my life taking care of these things. Rest, have confidence. I think that's part of the rest that God wants to offer us. It's the rest of living from our identity in relationship to the father, as Jesus has that relationship. No matter what's happening, the storm, the famine, whatever it is, to a certain extent, the difficulty, it's like, okay. I'm going to trust in God and his goodness. At the end of the day, eschatology speaking, good is going to win.
Father Angelus: Bro, I love how you brought up identity. Because if we know who we are, we know our identity, then we can rest in the storm.
Father Mark-Mary: Why do you say that every episode?
Father Angelus: What?
Father Innocent: Every episode.
Father Angelus: What?
Father Mark-Mary: That's not a bad thing. I'm encouraging you to say that every episode because...
Father Angelus: Hey, I'm just observing that.
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Mark-Mary: As soon as everybody who is listening has figured out who they are and are living from that place, we'll stop saying it.
Father Angelus: Exactly, as soon as I live from that place. When this is a truth in our lives, then we can be in the boat with Jesus. There can be a storm, and it's okay because he's here. I love the image of that scripture, Jesus in the boat. He's sleeping in the back. He's obviously resting.
Father Mark-Mary: You mean the one we're going to talk about on the next episode?
Father Angelus: That one, exactly.
Father Mark-Mary: Okay, good.
Father Angelus: You should have told me that pre-recording. That's interesting. The point is that if we know who we are and we know who Jesus is, then that rest is real. We don't have to be afraid.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah. Thanks, Father Angelus for your...
Father Innocent: Thanks for your... yeah. We definitely talk about that a lot.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, I've heard it before.
Father Innocent: It's definitely the heart of what we're doing here at Poco a Poco.
Father Mark-Mary: Check this out. Are you ready for some more?
Father Angelus: Talk to me, Merikakis.
Father Mark-Mary: Can you guys hear everybody outside?
Father Angelus: Here's what's going on outside. You want to know what's going on outside right now?
Father Mark-Mary: I want to know what's going on outside.
Father Angelus: We have basically started a youth camp out front. They recently realized that we have a hose. Kids are playing with water outside.
Father Innocent: Water fights.
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THE POCO A POCO PODCAST EPISODE 19 – “Christian Rest Hits Different: Receiving Christ’s Rest” www.franciscanfriars.com
Father Angelus: It's kid of been a 2020 tough times in the world pandemic time, so the neighbors get together. The kids get together. The moms are hanging out. The Friars are there. It's totally blessed, but that's the kids having fun right now.
Father Mark-Mary: We'll just continue on here. We can come back to it. This is how Merikakis describes the rest of Jesus in Matthew 11. Such rest is utter trust actually lived out moment by moment. It's rooted in the relationship to God, that's father.
Father Innocent: Amen. Moment by moment.
Father Mark-Mary: Moment by moment.
Father Innocent: Day by day. I think the reality is that we need formation in that, right? We need to be able to get up every day. We need to be able to have a real experience of what it means to have an interior journey. So then I can prepare to go to work in the morning and trust God. I can prepare to dive into relationships that are difficult with my family, or challenges that I have, or the anxieties or fears that I have, or the distractions that I have. That, I think, is the gift of continual conversation. In tier formation, it's hearing the truth over and over and over again. When I have to start again every day, God's mercies are new. Let me tell you something. God's mercies are new. He gives me an opportunity to reclaim again and relive again the fact that I'm his son.
Father Mark-Mary: Can you explain that again? You talked about interior formation.
Father Innocent: Yeah. You have this exterior interior reality. There's an exterior way of being Christian. Most of us have that pretty much down. There's things I do, there's things I say, there's a particular behavior and particular actions that I have. He's Christian, this is what he does. He goes to church. He does physical things that manifest the reality that he's a follower of Jesus. I can look at him and say, "Yeah, he follows the Lord." Pope Benedict talked about this in episodes before. There's an exterior land. The Promised Land is a physical place. The challenge is that Jesus came to manifest by the power of his spirit interior-ly. That's our inheritance because there could be crazy things, like in the scriptures all the way back to the Old Testament, where there's exterior things that are way outside of my control.
Father Innocent: There are famines. There are all sorts of crazy things. There are wars. There are good days and bad days. What happens in my interior life, in my heart, where I can still trust and be at rest because I know who God is and I know what the covenant means? I know in this covenant that God is my God, and
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I am his son. What does it mean to live that out? The challenging reality is that interior formation is what it means to learn to pray, and what it means to live the moral life. What it means to live virtue. What it means to have emotional freedom to where my emotions don't control me, and then lead me to this place that makes me angry, or upset, or afraid, or worried. I guess we've received that in religious life. This is, I guess, what this podcast or plenty of people in the church are trying to do, is lead people on an interior journey, Poco a Poco.
Father Angelus: And I think the interior journey forms and shapes us to know that this is possible every single day. We have to trust moment by moment. What does that mean for us though? It means exactly what it says it means, that I have to get up every day and I have to choose Jesus. I trust you, Jesus. I believe in you. It's funny because it's like, that's how it happens. It's the daily yes, the moment by moment yes, that my life can be different if I choose to live in relationship and think this rest is not only possible, but God's will for me.
Father Angelus: It's the walk on the way to the Bronx. It's you taking a deep breath and saying, "Okay, father. You're in this journey with me. I'm walking through the Bronx. I'm in a place where I'm open to you. I trust you. I love you. You're caring for me. Those you bring into my life is a manifestation of your providence, and your will, and your openness." It's the guy at his desk taking a deep breath before he starts the day and says, "Father, my coworkers, the work I'm going to do, the way I serve you. I'm going to experience your care for me and love for me."
Father Innocent: And that's restful if I live like that.
Father Angelus: Because it's not phonetic or a response, an anxious response. It's not something that I have to prove. It's not something that I have to do. It's not something that I have to control. But if we don't do that, then life takes over. All of a sudden, you're started for the day and you're hurrying to the Bronx, or the guy at his desk, or the mom is already getting, at 8:00 A.M., impatient with her kids because life happens. Stuff gets crazy, and I lost my interior space. I lost this space. The father says always to encounter the father, who is giving me everything I need to have this rest every day. Rest is not some sort of, oh, this is nice. I'm going to yawn. This is peaceful. This is great. Rest, again, like Merikakis says, is a trust. It is a surrender to grace and God's life in me that allows me to be faithful.
Father Mark-Mary: I want to contrast and briefly name the opposite. In this particular instance, I think rest, it's tangible. It's very attractive. One of the things I think that's genius about what he does on page 53 is he contrasts it with the story, I'm going to say it with the right words, where the people of Israel, they want a
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king. God is like, "Are you sure you want a king? I'll give you a king. If you want a king, I'll give you a king. But if you have this king," basically he goes, "He'll take your daughters to be perfumers and cookers and bakers. He'll take the best of your fields. He'll take a tenth of your grain. He'll take your maid servants and the best of your cattle. He'll take a tenth of your flocks." All of this where it's like, okay, if you have somebody else be king, okay. I'm going to give it to you. But just so you know, there's going to be some consequences.
Father Mark-Mary: I think this is part of what the struggle is. If you allow something else to rule your life other than... yeah, I'll say that. To rule your life other than this relationship with your identity, with your relationship with the father. Okay, you have freedom and God is going to allow you to do that. But you're going to be giving up your peace. You're going to be giving up your freedom. You're going to be giving up all this sort of stuff. If you go to someone else seeking the rest, Jesus, because love requires freedom, he's going to let you go. But you're not going to find ultimately what you're looking for. There's going to be consequences.
Father Innocent: There's going to be big consequences. It's going to masquerade as something like, oh... Merikakis, in a few pages before that says, "You're going to turn to..." pick your drug. Pick media, entertainment, Netflix. Whatever your drug of choice is that's going to provide the rest for you. It's going to masquerade as something like a momentary escape, but it can't fulfill you. It can't give you what your heart desires. We desire to be free. We desire to live in that place of deep, deep freedom. To know who we are and to receive everything from the father, and everything as a gift. But when I give, when I make my master, Merikakis, sticking with the scripture of Jesus, when I take other yokes upon me, they will crush you.
Father Innocent: Again, we've all been in that place that we become exhausted. It sucks the life out of you. That's what happens when we give our next to other yokes. There's only one yoke that will set you free. There's only one yoke that will bring you rest. We know that's the yoke of Jesus.
Father Mark-Mary: Which is his relationship with his father, yeah.
Father Angelus: I was just thinking when you were talking, Father Mark, of Saint Francis. This is why he wanted to be poor, is because when you own things, you have to protect them. You have to upkeep them, and you're distracted by them. This is the heart of Francis. This is the heart of why he wanted him and his brothers to be protected from worldly things, so that they could be concerned about one thing. They could be concerned about the primary thing.
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Father Angelus: It does fit in with this interior poverty. This interior reality where I can be detached from things of the world. I can cling to the Lord and find true rest in him, and not try to find, like Father Innocent said, momentary rest and pleasure in other things. We all have those things. We talk about the things, our own things on this, before the things that we think are helpful and think give us kind of momentary fleeting pleasures.
Father Mark-Mary: Lord, what I'd like us to do at this point is give a little witness. I'll share a little bit of rest experience. Maybe you can share some of the rest from your retreat, Father Angelus, Father Innocent. If you could maybe speak of some of the rest of how you encounter rest being in charge of this house with everything going on, including some of the-
Father Angelus: You're not supposed to talk about my weaknesses.
Father Mark-Mary: Some of the recent stuff.
Father Angelus: The challenge.
Father Mark-Mary: As I was actually preparing for this, praying for it and sitting down, I was like, "I really think I should..." It's the [Latin 00:31:18]. Like sort of the [Latin 00:31:19], but kind of on life. The contemplation, the enjoyment of the fruits of life, which are the fruit of work. You were talking about how the father, after creation, he has this sort of contemplative gaze on creation. He just takes it all in as good. In my own experience, I had a chance very recently to do a number of things, which has left my heart really filled.
Father Mark-Mary: I had a chance to be with some of my spiritual daughters. A lot of them are FOCUS people, had mass with them. The rest that I experienced, the fullness I experienced, the overflowing that I experienced of really living out and experiencing spiritual fatherhood. It's such a real thing, a tangible thing.
Father Innocent: Yeah, for sure.
Father Mark-Mary: I was with some of the friends, some of the FOCUS friends out there. It takes work. There was a lot of sacrifice. There was a lot of time spent, all this sort of stuff, to cultivate these relationships. They cultivate the soil of my own heart. But the rest, it was so real. What was another one? I think a lot of my experience of rest, it's living my relationship with the father. But it's also being made more likened to the son. That's one of these things that I underline and give a shout out too because of, as you'll see, a very particular reason. The Lord Jesus wants to associate us with himself so that little by little...
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Father Angelus: Come on.
Father Mark-Mary: We may come to resemble him more and more.
Father Angelus: That's Poco a Poco. That's in Spanish, little by little.
Father Mark-Mary: Wait, what do you mean?
Father Angelus: The old Espagnole.
Father Mark-Mary: Little by little. We've got another little by little guy, Merikakis.
Father Angelus: Nice.
Father Mark-Mary: That's the thing. I had a chance to be with the Sisters of Life, who I had been walking with for the past year, who were postulants, who just became novices. Seeing them in their veil the first time, and being able to rejoice with them in that. Again, this experience of the rest. There was a lot of work. On these Fridays that I'm with them, it's like a five, six hour investment. There was a lot of work, but there's rest in it of a full heart of experiencing the father's love for them. But also in that, the father's fidelity to his promise and this goodness of in some way, having to share in being more like the son. I don't know.
Father Innocent: Beautiful.
Father Angelus: Beautiful, I love it.
Father Mark-Mary: Oh, you said the same thing. You guys are like twins. I kind of shared a little bit of rest from fatherhood, spiritual fatherhood, spiritual motherhood. The fruit of that. How about some of the rest of your experience on your time of prayer, if any?
Father Angelus: Absolutely. Did you save any, as if there was a possibility?
Father Mark-Mary: I realized I was putting you on the spot a little bit. I wanted to give you a little...
Father Angelus: It's interesting. When was this? Probably five or six years ago now on retreat. A good Jesuit friend, a priest friend of our communities, gave us the retreat. I was just looking at his notes. Not at this particular retreat, but recently. He said, "Every once in a while, you should look back over your own vocation story and tell Jesus your own vocation story in conversation. You should tell him your own version of how he's worked and how you've experienced
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conversion, how you've experienced healing, and how you've experienced being called." It's beautiful. On this particular retreat, just having a real opportunity to, like you had mentioned, really gain upon my life and be grateful.
Father Mark-Mary: Before we go too far, can you explain a little bit? For us, it's like, solitude retreat. I know exactly what that means. What does that actually mean?
Father Angelus: Yeah, so we have a couple retreats. We have a directive. We have a priest retreat, where there's a lot of priests that actually preaches and gives us retreats. The solitary retreat is actually silent. We get six to eight days once a year to go be by ourselves, with the small caveat of having someone that can lead you. Basically, you pray. I prayed four holy hours a day and met with my director once for an hour. He would pray with me and see what the Lord was doing, and how the father was working.
Father Innocent: That's some serious prayer time.
Father Angelus: Yeah. God, brothers, it was beautiful. A little moment of self revelation here. I fall the sleep all the time in prayer here because I'm tired. You kind of pour yourself.
Father Mark-Mary: Meaning in the Friary.
Father Angelus: Yeah, in the Friary. I was telling my director this. "I didn't fall asleep once in eight days in those four hours of prayer every day." There was real grace. I'm really grateful for that. Again, I'm kind of coming off the mountain on cloud nine. The Lord is really merciful and really good. It was really silent. Most of the day, it was silent, which was really blessed. Here I am going over past journals, which is always dangerous. Because you're looking at past realities, you're looking at past spiritual direction preparations. You're looking at path preparations for confession.
Father Angelus: You're like, "That was five years ago. I struggled with the same exact things. That could be my preparation for tomorrow." It's humbling, but it's beautiful because you also see the way I've grown. Honestly brothers, my experience of rest is just to be less afraid of life and less afraid of what's to come. Less worried about things happening, and results, and people's opinions. It was great to look back and say, "Wow, I've come a long way." But also to enter into this space of rest and offer my heart to the father, and hear the father actually speak through his scriptures. Words that have authority and words that can allow me to experience the truth of who God is and what he wants to do in my life.
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Father Angelus: The quiet and the rest allowed me just to receive that, and to again, come back and feel like I'm ready to enter into a new space, into a new responsibility, again, a new Friary. I was able to receive that. I'm just really, really grateful. There's quiet and silent, but that doesn't necessarily mean rest. It was beautiful to struggle. You're going to the desert, if you will. Can I just tell you a story real fast?
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, go for it.
Father Angelus: Are you ready? I don't know if I told you this. There is some trails, hiking trails, by this retreat house I was at. I'm not much of a hiker. I think we talked about that before. I like being outside. I like exercising, but the trails were beautiful. Every day, I would go on these trails. You kind of make your way around. Every day, I passed this trail that was titled The Wetland Walk. It seemed interesting to me, but I was never really particularly moved to go in there.
Father Angelus: Halfway into my retreat, I was like, "You know what? I'll give The Wetland Walk a try today." Let's be very honest. It was a swamp. It was an overgrown swamp. It was nasty. It was beautiful because my heart often is an overgrown swamp. I didn't want to go in there. Oftentimes there's places that I don't want to go in my heart. There's nice, beautiful trails. How nice is this, Lord? This is beautiful. But we get to that place, and they have signs. You get halfway through the swamp and it's like, look for the birds. You get another halfway in and you start to look for reptiles and things like that.
Father Angelus: There's nothing attractive about looking for snakes in a swamp, nothing. But here I am in the middle of this swamp. No one else is on these trails. It's the middle of the week during COVID, so no one is out hiking. The swamp lingers. The swamp keeps going on and on, and brothers, it was beautiful, because I don't like those things. I generally am not attracted to those things, but it was a really beautiful breakthrough because it was like the father is still here. This is all his. It was this breakthrough. It was beautiful.
Father Innocent: You walked the swamp.
Father Angelus: The swamp physically. But interior-ly, my heart, sometimes I don't want to go into it. It was beautiful because the Lord invites me in. He has mercy on me there. He reveals that it's his place too. That allows me to be at peace and take a deep breath and be like, "You're here." Totally undeserved mercy and grace from the Lord. I feel physically rested, but just ready and trusting and open and excited to see what the Lord is doing. It's a grace that has lasted two days since I've been back, which is a good sign of, wow. This could be a
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longterm thing. Real change and real grace. I'm waiting for somebody to make me upset and then have that change.
Father Mark-Mary: That's the spirit. That's what to look for. You can have rest in the swamp, the swamp of your heart.
Father Angelus: Rest in the swamp. If you go to that place, that sign and say, "Actually, I'd rather not go there. There's nothing attractive about that place." That's where the Lord wants us to go. He takes control there, and he speaks life there and words there of authority.
Father Innocent: Beautiful.
Father Mark-Mary: Great. Thanks, Father Angelus.
Father Innocent: There's a couple things. I think, Father Mark-Mary, very similar to you, I experienced my rest in the gift of fatherhood. You mentioned I'm a superior of the house, so I am responsible for eight Friars, or seven Friars. And then also the postulant director of our younger brothers. I don't know if I experienced much rest being victim to Friars.
Father Mark-Mary: That's because you're a tyrant.
Father Innocent: Whoa, bro. You've been here for a week. Take it easy.
Father Mark-Mary: Merciless. We know exactly what the book of Samuel is talking about. We'll give you a king.
Father Innocent: We'll give you a king. Just do what I say.
Father Angelus: Do everything.
Father Innocent: Do what I say.
Father Mark-Mary: And give a tenth of your house. [crosstalk 00:41:44] I'll just explain though, because I think I did some talk like that on rest or confidence or whatever. Someone was like, "You're Friars. What could you possibly be concerned about?" Being a servant of this house, it's a big location. Maintenance, all of these people. There's a finance aspect of it, and then there's forming all of these guys. There's a lot.
Father Innocent: Yeah, there's a lot of movement pieces here. A big part of it is just wanting... there's the administrations part of it. There's the building, that's just a thing. But also, I love the brothers. I want to care for the brothers. When you feel
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responsible, you're a father to 17 other people, you feel it. I feel that desire in my heart to love guys, to walk with guys, to really care for guys as they walk this life. A couple things. Our postulant brothers just got invested last week, so it's awesome.
Father Mark-Mary: What does that mean?
Father Innocent: They were invested as novices. They got the new habit. You're so good. You're coaching us with these words. They got invested in the holy habit of Saint Francis. It was awesome. They received new names. People probably saw it on Instagram. It was a really beautiful moment. These guys are stepping in deeper to consecrated life. They get new names. It's a huge step for them. I remember being at mass and really for the first time, I was humbled to give the homily. You're preaching to these young men and your heart is just out there.
Father Innocent: After I sat down from the homily, my heart was just overwhelming with great gratitude. I was just so humbled to be able to walk with these guys. I looked up and I looked at them. I just took a deep breath. I'm like, "Lord, these are such good men. These are your sons." I was so proud of them. There was that incredible rest that we're all resting in you right now, father. Because what you've done in these men and the vocation you've given them... I just had that moment. It's lingered for a week now. Father, this is your gift. These men have come to you. They have found rest in you. You have chosen them and spoken words of life to them, and called them to this amazing life.
Father Innocent: That was a real moment of grace. I was just a father looking at his sons. I'm like, "Wow. They are so good because the father is so good and doing this work." I was such a proud father. There was such a moment of deep gratitude and rest in the Lord because I'm like, "Lord, you did this. You did this work in these men." It was beautiful.
Father Angelus: You also went to bed early that night.
Father Innocent: Exactly. The other thing brothers, just about the brothers here, is that it was actually in a recent spiritual director. I find a lot of rest in my own relationship with my own spiritual director. I bring this up concretely because I think all of us have spiritual fathers and spiritual fathers that we can talk to, that are places of rest for us. It can be a priest or religious, but it can just be a spiritual friend that is a spiritual father or mother. We all have them. People, our brothers and sisters listening, we all have these places.
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Father Innocent: I find incredible rest in my relationship with a lot of the spiritual fathers in my life, but my spiritual director. The gift of, he always just kind of reminds me subtly and sometimes not so subtly. I was just carrying the burden of this house, and the brothers, and a lot of moving pieces here. I was tired. This was a month ago or so. I was just tired. He could tell I was anxious. To be honest, I let the anxiety pull me away from that place of relationship with the Lord where I'm so confident in him. It was so good because my director, my spiritual father just said, "Why do you do this to yourself?" I'm like, "I think I do a pretty good job around here." Do you know what I mean?
Father Innocent: He's like, "Why do you do this to yourself? Why do you think you have to do this by yourself? You're tired and exhausted because you think you have to do it by yourself, or you have to have all the answers by yourself. You rely..." It's called self-reliance. I don't know if anybody struggles with that. He's like, "Why do you do this to yourself? Why do you think that you have to do it by yourself?" He pulled me back to the place of prayer, back to the place of rest. It was almost immediate. I'm like, "No, Jesus. I want you to be the one that I rest in. I want you to be the one who is the Lord and who figures all this out, because I can't do it." Immediately, there was a grace. Okay, we're back. We're back. It's like something has readjusted and it's like, okay, the rest has returned because I know Jesus will do it. Jesus will care for me.
Father Mark-Mary: For the folks who are listening, I think one thing that's important is the... because it's like, "I want that. I want someone to say something, and snap their fingers, and I'm back in a place of total rest." But part of that was possible because you've already been, for lack of a better word, working at this for...
Father Innocent: A long time.
Father Mark-Mary: A long time. You already had experienced and knew the truth, so you could make the adjustment.
Father Innocent: I want people to know that we have practice, but that's for everybody.
Father Mark-Mary: Oh, 100%.
Father Innocent: A gift that's for everybody.
Father Mark-Mary: 100%. But if someone is maybe a little bit earlier on in their journey, it's okay.
Father Innocent: Don't you worry.
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Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, Poco a Poco. We had a couple of experiences of rest. I hope to get into it a little bit further on. The rest that comes from actually being a spiritual father or a spiritual mother. The rest that comes in prayer, and particularly the rest which gives us trust and confidence that the mud of our own hearts isn't...
Father Innocent: A swamp?
Father Mark-Mary: A swamp, whatever. Yeah, sorry, the swamp. I didn't want to just...
Father Angelus: Mud, come on.
Father Mark-Mary: The mud.
Father Innocent: There's mud in the swamp.
Father Angelus: It wasn't just a swamp. There was real things in that thing.
Father Mark-Mary: Was this a swamp for you, or was this a real swamp?
Father Innocent: It was the swamp that Father Angelus was in. No.
Father Angelus: Guys, I'm telling you. When you hear Wetland Walk it's like, oh, a kindergarten nature walk. This was a swamp. Snakes and birds and things. Anyway...
Father Mark-Mary: There's that rest of allowing the Lord to go into these places with us. I think there's a rest even in, we can get into it in another episode, but in discernment. When we're realizing that discernment is not totally up to us and God is in it as well, there can be a huge source of rest. One of the things I want to end with here... Is that okay?
Father Innocent: Yeah.
Father Angelus: Yeah, it sounds awesome.
Father Mark-Mary: Some of the practical’s, I think. Can we get some practicals? Then we'll have some closing shout outs here. I think you had something. Oh, this whole telling your... It can be maybe not a vocation story, but maybe telling your conversion story. Your relationship with Jesus story to Jesus.
Father Innocent: Yeah, if you could look at it from moments of grace, look at the past month of your life. Retell Jesus in a moment of silence in your life when you can create some space and go away in the next room, outside, the garden,
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wherever. Re-look at the moments of grace in the past month, and how the Lord worked in these moments of grace. What the fruit of those moments of grace were. Look at yourself surrendering your anxiety, your fear, your worry, the troubles of your heart in these moments. See yourself experiencing the Lord providing, and the Lord moving, and the Lord working, and the Lord being present. It's funny. It's great to look back because in the moment, we never feel like we're going to get out of it.
Father Innocent: We never feel like this is going to solve itself, or that I'm going to be able to experience peace in the midst of this craziness. But we maybe can look back and be grateful. We're like, "Wow, the Lord really did provide." Therefore, that then prepares me, strengthens me, sustains me to be able to move forward. I can take a deep breath, and I can trust, and I can be at peace. Moments of grace in the last month, and you can write them down, you can pray with them, but contemplate them. Be like, "Wow, where was the Lord in this? Where was he providing for me?" That can help us.
Father Mark-Mary: There's that psalm we pray. I think often it's a Sunday daytime prayer psalm. "Blah blah blah happened, because his mercy endures forever, because his mercy endures forever."
Father Innocent: Psalm 139.
Father Mark-Mary: Psalm 139, right. There's a spirituality of revisiting God's marvelous deeds in the past, or his presence in the past.
Father Innocent: I've done this before. Create your own Psalm 139. This is what happened in my life because the Lord's love endures forever. His mercy endures forever. This is what happened because his mercy endures forever. You can take the last couple weeks, take the last month and do that, and see it. Write it out, see it, and pray it. Offer your heart in it. This is what bears fruit in this rest we're talking about.
Father Mark-Mary: Beautiful. Are you gripping at the mic to say something, or are you good? Go ahead.
Father Innocent: Two words. Surrender Novena. You sound practical.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah.
Father Innocent: The Surrender Novena, look it up online. It's awesome. Obviously it's a super short novena. It basically surrenders, obviously, hence the word. I think the refrain you say 10 times is, "Jesus, you take care of everything."
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Basically something like that. "Jesus, you take care of everything." There's a small other little line. It just gives you-
Father Angelus: Can you just clarify? Super short novena, it's still nine days.
Father Innocent: I know, but really.
Father Angelus: I'm just kidding.
Father Innocent: It's a couple sentences, and you say this prayer like, "Jesus, I surrender everything. Take care of everything." That's it.
Father Mark-Mary: Okay. We'll put it up on our... if you go to FranciscanFriars.com/PocoaPoco...
Father Innocent: Powerful.
Father Mark-Mary: Look it up. We'll put it up there.
Father Innocent: If we practice it, again, it's the every day little by little. We can say this little prayer. "Jesus, I surrender everything to you. Take care of everything."
Father Mark-Mary: Just to summarize, come to me all you who are labored and burdened, and I will give you rest. There is the coming to Jesus. We're talking about a rest which requires work. There is coming to Jesus, a privileged placed to do that. It's certainly through scriptures. We're talking about reading Psalm 139. 139, consider praying with it, but also writing your own Psalm 139. Coming to Jesus with prayer, with honesty. Then also, as Father Innocent talked about, this Surrender Novena. Just doing the work of surrendering very concretely. Again, we'll make that available to you. We thank you all for listening. We had a real live virtual Friary on the roadside experience. There's been a Friar running back and forth shooting like a...
Father Angelus: Squirt guns and hoses.
Father Mark-Mary: Yeah, a six-year-old with a mask on running back and forth, shooting with a hose.
Father Innocent: This is what we do. Poco a Poco inside and summer camp outside.
Father Mark-Mary: This is what you'd be hearing if you were inside of here, in the Friary. I'm going to give a little shout out to me... I wasn't sure if I was going to name them. I'm going to name their first names.
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Father Angelus: Please.
Father Mark-Mary: To my little daughters out there, who feel my heart so much. Liz, Lizzie, Katie, and Mattie, and MK, and Emma, and Sophia, and Sam. I love you. It was great to hangout with you. I was really, really enriched by being with you. Thank you for giving me rest and an experience of the father's goodness. MC, our girl, we look forward to walking with you as you give your entire life to Jesus. Just don't forget to chill. You got anything else, Father Innocent?
Father Innocent: All good, bro.
Father Angelus: All set.
Father Mark-Mary: Okay, everybody. If you're enjoying the podcast and you want to help us out, you want to help a brother out or help three brothers out, here is the three most helpful things for us at this point practically speaking, other than praying for us. Number one, we're really trying to drive those likes on Apple Podcasts, or no, the reviews. Whatever, you know what I mean. The reviews. You don't have to give us five stars. Traditionally, most people have given us five stars, but you're free. That's one.
Father Mark-Mary: Definitely sending us an email. Those have been really helpful. Thirdly, telling a friend. Anything you're putting out on social media that you're tagging us. CFR_Franciscans Instagram, we're sharing. We love that and it helps to get the word out, which we hope helps to get the gospel out. If you want to keep feeding yourself, Facebook.com/SpiritJuiceStudios. We're really solid, the content. Cool?
Father Angelus: Awesome.
Father Innocent: Amen.
Father Mark-Mary: All right, we'll peep you next week at the virtual Friary Poco a Poco. We're going to make it. [foreign language 00:54:39] Bye.
Father Angelus: Peace.
Father Innocent: Bye, everybody. (singing)
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