Minnesota Youth Gang Research Project Minnesota Historical Society

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Tape 43 Static on first part of tape Interview with QUAN 18 year old Black American Rochester Black Disciple

Interviewed by Kate Cavett of Hand in Hand Rochester Juvenile Detention Center July 18, 1998 .05 KC: Ok, tell me your name, your age and where you are from. Q: My name is Quan, I'm an 18 year old Black male. I'm originally from Chicago, Illinois. KC: How long since you've moved form Chicago, Illinois. Project Q: Urn, about three years. KC: So, you were about 15 when you moved, left Chicago. And where did you move to first? Q: Urn, when I first left Chicago, I was stayin in Kentucky with my urn, my mother's brother, but things didn't work out there, so I come here ta Minnesota with my mom an her boyfriend. KC: And what city did you move into first? Q: Urn, first city I pretty much had any interaction when ISociety first came to Minnesota was Owatonna. Urn, small population, ya know whatResearch I'm sayin, basically whachu might call a hick town, whatever. KC: Let's back up and then let's get back to Owatonna. When did you first become aware of such a thing as a gang or an association?Gang Q: I'd say like, pretty much I can, ya know what I'm sayin, I might as well say, I grew up around that type a, ya know what I'm sayin, stuffHistorical Cuz, ya know, the people on, like as far as my mom's side a the family, ya know what I was sayin there was one type a gang an on my father's side, there was another type a gang, so I was, ya know what I'm sayin, pretty much all around it all my life.Youth 1.54 KC: What affiliation did your mom's side have and what affiliation did your dad's? Q: Most a the people on my mom's side of the family were like GO's, BGD's an on my dad's side it was like ViceMinnesota Lords, MC's, Blackstone's, ya know what I'm sayin, (unclear) that type a stuff. KC: Very definitely two different sides. One's six point, one's five point. Was there friction in theMinnesota family because of that? Q: Urn, I wouldn't, ya know it was friction like every now an then, but cha know what I'm sayin, not like, like blown out a proportion or nuttin like that, ya know. It'd be like somebody who wadn't like immediate family, like into one a my dad's like, ya know what I'm sayin, one a his members or somethin like that that was always around or somthin like that, but never like, like family, ya know what I'm sayin. (Unclear) violence (unclear). KC: Were you raised around both mom and dad? Q: Uh uh. I spent time with, ya know what I'm sayin, my grandma pretty much raised me when

COPYRIGHT: HAND in HAND, Post Office Box, 65522, Saint Paul, MN 55165 ===651-227-5987 I was little, ya know what I'm sayin, cuz my rna had me when she was like 15, ya know what I'm sayin. She didn't no nothin bout raisin no kid, so my grandma pretty much raised me as well as my grandma on my dad's side, but cha know what I'm sayin, my dad was around a lot. More than my rna was when I was comin up. KC: So, your dad's side pretty much raised you? You were around it, gangs were something you'd always known, but when did you become affiliated? Q: I'd say probably around when I turned like 11 or 12 years old. Like I said I pretty much grew up around it, but ya know I chose ta go my own way. Everybody on my rna's side was one thing, ya know, what I'm sayin, an everyone on my dad's side was somethin else, even though ya know what I'm sayin, I'm still Folks, I chose ta go with (unclear) 3.55 KC: So, grandma on your dad's side raised you. They were more Vice Lords into 5 points, but you chose to go towards your mom's side and go with the Folk? Q: Right. Project KC: How old were you? Q: When I first got blessed in, I was like 12 at the most. 12 earliest was 11. But, for sure, like I was blessed inta the gang before I was 13. Before I could say I was a teenager, ya know what I'm sayin, so really young. KC: What was one of the first things that you did as far as being part of the gang? Q: Well, bein the age that I was, they didn't require us ta do a Societywhole lot a stuff, ya know what I'm sayin, maybe like petty stuff, like go steal likeResearch somethin from a store or somethin like that, little petty thing, jewelry stuff like that from like houses that they would pick out, ya know what I'm sayin. They would get us ta go on in bein as though we were kids an if we do get caught, ya know what I'm sayin, the charge would be minimal, they probably jus take whatever they found an then releaseGang us to the custody of our parents or somethin like that. Might as say we was like the guinea pigs,Historical ya know what I'm sayin, at first. Tryin ta prove our worth, ya know. KC: Did you have to do anything or prove anything before you got blessed into the BD's? 5.18 Youth Q: Nope. Not really cuz, like it was, a dude in our neighborhood he use ta be on the same, an everybody that was on my mom's side a the family that was GD' s and BGD' s, he was like the only BD who hung out with my rna's buddy's an uncles an stuff like that, so ya know what I'm sayin, he was recruitin an back then they didn't really care how old you was, if you wanted ta belong, Minnesotaok, it's all good come on, ya know what I'm sayin, jump on the band wagon. So, he (unclear) he's like you wanna belong (unclear). He was cool with the family soMinnesota it wadn't no problem for me ta go somewhere with him, ya know what I'm sayin, so he took me down there on the end, with all the older BD' s an stuff, an let them know I wanted ta be a member, took it from there. 6.15 KC: Was there a ritual or some type offormal ceremony that took place for you to be blessed in? Q: It was like, it'd be like many people of authority, ya know what I'm sayin, Ministers, (unclear), Bishops, that sort a thing, ya know what I'm sayin, an a couple foot soldiers ta witness. What ya had ta do is like, you sit up there an they say the prayer an you have ta

repeat after them, ya know what I'm sayin, then when you said the whole prayer you get up do the handshake wid em, then from that moment on you like, (unclear), you part a the organization, ya know what I'm sayin. You jus don't really like get inta most a the things that the organization does til yer like 17 or 18. KC: Did they teach you any of the lit at 12 or anything along the line? Q: Uh uh. Ya don't, like I said, ya don't really like get inta stufflike that til you get old enough ta understand it, when you can be able ta recite it like whenever you get axed to, ya know what I'm sayin, you be able ta jus know it all talk like it was, like it was natural. Like me speakin ta you, ya know what I'm sayin, it's spose ta become natural like that, so you have ta get that when you like 17 or 18, but you pretty much pick it up befoe that from bein around all the older Folks. KC: Now, your 17 or 18, but you haven't been living around them,Project so have you had an opportunity to learn the lit. Q: Oh yeah. Ya know, I still go back home an visit Chicago, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm, thas one thing about me, ya know, I'm never gonna forget where I come from, ya know what I'm sayin, or where I was raised an whenever I get a chance to, ya know, I got back home, ya know what I'm sayin. Go visit some a the old Folks an stufflike that, ya know, see what's goin on, see ifany new laws, new creeds or anything like thatSociety (unclear) so I stay in touch, ya know. It ain't like I became one an left, left everythingResearch behind, ya know what I'm sayin. I still know what's going on. But, yeah I know some lit. KC: Is the lit confidential? Q: Yeah. KC: You had shared when we were talkingGang before that you were a Foot Soldier. I know, I've had people with higher rank share lit with me. Well, they've shared ..... How did you feel when you were blessed in? What was that likeHistorical for you? Q: Ya know, I felt like, ya know what I'm sayin, like I belong, not ... .like my uncles an the people on my dad's sideYouth a the family, ya know, I could say I belong ta somethin, I was a part a somethin, ya know what I'm sayin. Like a second family so ta speak. Older brothers, older sisters, whatever ya wanna call it. People who, if I got inta somethin, ya know what I'm sayin, I could go to one a them they wouldn't question whether I was right or wrong, ya know what I'm sayin, (unclear). KC: What was mom's reactionMinnesota the fact that you had joined BD like her family? Q: Nuttin really. I mean what could she do? All she could try ta do was, ya know what I'm sayin,Minnesota keep me from goin (unclear) but that wouldn't stop it none, she try ta keep me in the house an as soon as she turn her back all I'd do was ask my grandma, ya know what I'm sayin, my grandma didn't know. An, my grandma didn't wanna believe my rna when my rna was tellin, ya know what I'm sayin, she told me I couldn't go outside, I'd go behind her back an be like - ah, grandma can I go outside? She be like go on, go play, jus be back before the street lights come on. I go outside an go right down there with the BD's, ya know what I'm sayin, hang out whatever. 9.55 KC: What was dad's reaction that you had (unclear) Vice Lord's, that you had joined the BD's?

Q: He didn't do anything. He was mad. He got mad, he called BD's Black Souls, ya know what I'm sayin, so he was like if anything, boy you shoulda come home, ya know what I'm sayin, your daddy's side an all this, ya know what I'm sayin. I looked at it like, ya know, even though I went towards the Folks well, ya know what I'm sayin, I didn't become GD or BGD, ya know what I'm sayin, I went BD. Thas like, it's a branch a the Folks, but it's somethin totally different from GD and BGD, ya know what I'm sayin. Like they got the forks, ya know what I'm sayin, we got the tres, ya know what I'm sayin. KC: You said you went BD or BGD? Q: BD. 10.40 KC: BD, Black Disciple. That's what I thought you said before. As a young soldier, what were some of the things that you did? What were some of the things thatProject you enjoyed as BD? Q: Pretty much, ya know what I'm sayin, gettin money from the older Folks, ya know what I'm sayin. Cuz, when I was 11, 12, ya know what I'm sayin, ten, twenty dollars, that was a lot a money ta me, ya know what I'm sayin, by you bein in the organization, ya know what I'm sayin, back then I wadn't, you wadn't too young ta sell drugs, ya know what I'm sayin, distributor, ya know what I'm sayin, like transport. But we was too young ta stand out in front a the buildins, ya know what I'm sayin an try at a sellSociety em, like the police an stuff (unclear) not knowin what the under cover detectivesResearch look like, ya know what I'm sayin, we pretty much easy prey for like crack heads too, cuz they could find out we sellin the shit, ya know or whatever, an take it from us, ya know what I'm sayin, by us bein so young an (unclear), ya know what I'm sayin .. But, say like the money, ya know what I'm sayin, havin a sense ofbel ongin, ya know what I'mGang sayin, knowin that ifya have any type of problem, you can go to yer Nation or yer Organization or whatever, like I said they ain't gonna question whether you right or wrong or not, ya knowHistorical what I'm sayin, they gonna be right there for you, not matter what. KC: So, some of the older soldiersYouth would just plain give you money? Q: Yeah. Ya know what I'm sayin, if they felt like, ya know what I'm sayin, you ain't never spose ta be scared for anything, ya know what I'm sayin, if you wanted somethin an you needed somethin you suppose ta be able ta go ta one a the older Folks or one the Folks with money or so ta speak an ask em an ya know what I'm sayin, they suppose ta give it to you especially if they gotMinnesota it, they can't hold out on ya, ifya know what I'm sayin. Cuz you all strivin for the same cause. So, if he got money an he see you, (unclear) it shouldn't be no problemMinnesota for him ta put 5, 10 dollars in yer pocket or nothin like that. If anything he should be offerin you money, ya know what I'm saying, without chu askin, but it you come to him an you ask him for it, it shouldn't be no problem for him ta go in his pocket an pull it out. KC: Did they ask you to do anything for the money, or it was just given to you? 13.04 Q: No, no they didn't ask me to do nothin for em (unclear) it wadn't nuthin like that, ya know what I'm sayin. It wadn't never like ... you had ta work ta get money, ya know what I'm sayin, until you got old enough, ya know what I'm sayin. But why you was a shorty, like I said you did certain things ta prove yer worth, but it wadn't like when you did these things

you got paid for it. You was doin this ta show them, ya know what I'm sayin, that you gonna (unclear) jus not some phony kid or some phony member who jus (unclear) cuz you a punk: (unclear) thas pretty much all they did. KC: What kind of things did you do to prove your worth? 13.41 Q: Rob a couple a people, transported a couple a guns, took drugs here, took drugs there, ya know what I'm sayin. One time, I was asked ta steal from my rna, an back then I didn't really care so, like I said I do whatever. Snatch purses from old people an stuff like that. Only thing back then, like I said it was mostly petty stuf( ya know what I'm sayin. But, as you got older thas when you got into the more serious stuff Like, you was the one out there standin in front a the building sellin the drugs. You was expected ta hold yer own, if anything went wrong it was the pistol that was inside the building at yer disposal thatProject chu could get to an ifanythin happened you were suppose ta use that, ya know what I'm sayin. No matter what you spose ta get ta that pistol an take care a yer business. KC: Did you ever have to get to the pistol? Q: Maybe two or three times, thas about it. That was jus nothin. I had ta bust it a couple times, but that was ta scare somebody off, maybe the opposition or somethin like that. Ta let somebody know, ya know, hey man (unclear) we ain't no jokeSociety over this way. I would never pull anythin an be flashing it like, yeah- we got aResearch gun over here. Anytime I went an grab the pistol, it was for a reason. Had ta take care a somethin. 15.12 KC: You said that one of the things that they asked you to do, was to steal from your mom. Was that kind oflike a test to see if the BD'sGang were stronger influence than your biological family? Q: I think: it was. Ya know, cuz like I said, it's like a second family, but cha ya know when you actually get in the organization, they gonnaHistorical be lookin at it as like you lookin at them as yer only family. Ya know what I'm sayin, you gonna steal for them, kill for them, you'll do whatever it takes. You'llYouth lie for them, whatever. So, I think: it was. KC: Did they ever ask you to kill for them. Q: No, I didn't really never get that serious. I only, the only way you .. .1ike somethin like this, for you ta hafta kill somebody that'd hafta be a (unclear) go ahead from the man, ya know what I'm sayin. Either that or, like a reason an ain't nobody really wanna war with the BD's, I mean we had littleMinnesota wars an stuff like that, but rarely did anybody wanna war wid us. But, when we did, like people (unclear) the incomin Foot Soldiers, we didn't really get a chance taMinnesota get involved in the wars like that. Only the BD's who had like been involved for like a year, year an a half, two years, stuff like that got ta participate in the wars an stuff KC: When you warred, would you war against the GD's or the Vice Lord's, or who would you war against? Q: You warred against any opposition, like GD's, (unclear) sometimes you even warred with the BD's, like, ya know what I'm sayin, like BD's from like one side a the set. There might be nd some BD's from over there on 5 pt an BD's from over there on 42 , they'll war wid each nd other, cuz they're from two different sets. They're BD's, but ya got BD's from 42 , BD's from 51 st, BD's from (unclear) they at war wid each other, ya know what I'm sayin, we war

'-' COPYRIGHT: HAND in HAND, Post Office Box, 65522, Saint Paul, MN 55165 ===651-227-5987 Quan6

with GD's, Stone's, Vice Lord's, Latin Kings, MC's. I didn't matter, whoever. Whoever (unclear) if they wanted ta ... wars don't really kick off, unless somebody in the gang got shot or somebody got whooped really bad. Thas the only time a war really kick off I war won't really kick off if somebody jus got beat up. But, if somebody get jumped by like about 12 or 13 people or one organization an they alljumpin on like 2 or 3 ofya all, an ya all end up in the hospital, ya know it's time ta go ta war. Ifanybody in the gang get killed, or even a little flesh wound, like a shot in the shoulder thas automatic means for war. Thas grounds for war right there. KC: What kind of weapons did you carry when you were in Chicago? 18.08 Q: When I got old enough, it was like .22's, maybe a deuce deuce, gloc, maybe a nine, ya know what I'm sayin. But the biggest I ever had was like a .357, but the ProjectBD's they had all types a guns. I mean; street sweepers, tecs, 380's, 357's (unclear) rifles with scopes on em, rifles with infra red beams, M-16's. I'm talkin like military type stuff that you would see in the military, the BD's had. KC: This is how your rank had this? Q: Yeah. I mean, they distribute it to like all, several people in the gang had weapons in their homes. Like, one BD might have like 9 pistols in his crib, anotherSociety BD might have like 3 or 4. It wadn't like the high rankin Folks was holdinResearch all of em, ya know what I'm sayin, they jus was givin, you had ta go through them ta get certain things. KC: What weapons did they give you? 19.14 Q: I had a .9, a Deuce Deuce an like aGang .357. I had like 3 pistols. KC: How old did you have to be before you were given guns? Q: It wadn't really no set age, but like, you prettyHistorical much had ta be like, I'd say like when you get around like 15. Like up there like teenage years, like junior high, high school like that. After you proved yer worth,Youth ya know what I'm sayin. An, they feel like, yeah ok if we give him, this he gonna take care a the business. He ain't gonna get in no trouble, ya know, run ta the police an - oh, they gave me the guns or nothin like dat. KC: How old were you when they finally let you stand out in front of the buildings and do some direct dealing? Q: Like 16. 16 years old.Minnesota KC: You left Chicago at about 15. What happened that decided you needed to get out of Chicago?Minnesota Q: It wadn't really me. My grandma had passed away an stuff, on my mom's side, she had passed away an my rna, ya know what I'm sayin, my rna she couldn't do nothin with me, so she was like, she sent me an my little sister ta live with her brother, but she stayed up here in Chicago an even though I was livin down there I had managed ta get back an forth, ya know what I'm sayin, cuz I still had my dad an my grandma livin in Chicago, so I used that as an excuse ta get back up there, ya know. Thas pretty much what I did, like I had, went down there an we left I had ta stay wid my uncle like up until Christmas an then I left sometime around June, stayed up there til like about Christmas an I had time up there for like Christmas

break for like 2 or 3 weeks an stayed up there an I spent like the 1st week with my grandma an them, an then like the last 2 weeks I was with the BD' s. KC: How did it feel to be back with that family? 21.17 Q: It felt great. I didn't wanna leave. Once I got back an got ta doin some a the 01 stuff that I was doin before I left, I was like, man, ya know. Plus, Kentucky was borin, ya know, I mean there wasn't nothin there, no action or nothin. My uncle lived in like a little quiet neighborhood with nothin but houses, no action, nobody ta play around me, nobody hung out, nobody stood out on the street comers, nuttin like that. Shit, a couple people in their backyard playin basketball, ya know what I'm sayin but, plus I wasn't use ta seein grass til I came ta Kentucky. I mean, I'm so use ta seein gravel, broken glass an stuff like that. You go to a totally different State you see grass an deer an all this other stuff,Project it's like what?, what is this am lout in the country or somethin, ya know what I'm sayin, an then you get back ta that city life an all a this come back to you, it's like - yeah, ok, everything is goin cool, no problem. KC: Did you find any gangsters in Kentucky? Q: Nope. KC: Nope. So, how old were you when you came to MinnesotaSociety with mom? Q: I'd say like about, it was right before I had, rightResearch before I turned 17. Right after I came back from Chicago, bein like a couple a months after my birthday. I'd say like around March or April. I came up here ta Minnesota an started livin here with my mom. KC: So you've been here for a little over a year. Q: Yep. Gang 23.04 KC: You moved to Owatonna. Did you findHistorical some gangster in Owatonna? Q: Found a couple a wannabe's in Owatonna.. Some dudes from Texas, couple a Mexicans, call themselves Crips an theyYouth (unclear) an all this other stuff It was gangs tha use ta come ta Owatonna like from Minneapolis, Rochester, Austin, surroundin areas use ta come inta Owatonna, ya know what I'm sayin. You could tell the real ones from the fake ones. Even when they was comin in in big groups, you can jus look at em an it'd be like, man you all is punks, man. You all ain't seen no action. Nothin. KC: How could you tellMinnesota the real ones from the fake ones? Q: Cuz the real ones, the real ones they don't, when you see em they the type tha you jus sit thereMinnesota an ya wonder about, cuz they ain't the ones thas allover in the comer flashing wid the jewelry an all this, or runnin around with big groups. Runnin their mouth about what they do an what they done did an ya know, how much money they got an all this other stuff The real ones be the ones, they sittin back in the, like in the comer, jus watchin everythin around, watchin they surroundings, ya know what I'm sayin. Readin people jus by talkin to em, gettin a feel for em jus by hearin how they talkin an how they talk about situations that they've been in, what they done been through, what they wanna do, what they plan on doin. Thas how you distinguish the real ones from the fake ones. 24.34

KC: How did you feel about being in Owatonna and finding some gangs, different from Kentucky, but the (unclear) Chicago? Q: I thought it was sweet. For me ta come up ta Minnesota an hear all this, ya know what I'm sayin, I'm lookin at ya all's punks, I can do whatever I wanna do up here. Ya all don't know nothin, ya all don't know nothin about the gang or nothin. I could sit up here an have ya all doin, dis, dis, dis an dis. Ya all don't know if I'm right or wrong, ya all jus listenin ta me, becuz ya all know I'm from a big city, ya know what I'm sayin, where it's a lot a gang bangin there. An by me, even if I wasn't what I'm sayin I am, ya all believe me becuz a the simple fact that I'm from Chicago an when ya all hear Chicago ya all - ooh thas a bad place. An, so automatically right there I got cha, ya know what I'm sayin. KC: Did you do any recruiting into the BD's yourself? Q: False recruitin. I ain't gonna say like recruitin, recruitin, like you actuallyProject a member, I was whachu would call gettin peon's. I was havin people gimme like $30 an stuff like that ta even say they was BD's. But, I wasn't teachin em no lit, nutthin, ya know what I'm sayin. Jus, ya know, ya wanna be a BD? Yeah, well get $30, ya know what I'm sayin, every week I expect ta get this right here from ya, ya gotta give ta the organization. I was pretty much gettin paid off on it, so I could have money for the weekend. They didn't know, ya know what I'm sayin, they never questioned me or nothin. As longSociety as they got ta walk around, somebody ask em - what is you? ya know, I'mResearch BD, I didn't care. KC: Did you show them a handshake? Q: NO. 26.13 KC: Did you teach them any lit? Gang Q: No. KC: Now, didn't they want to learn something?Historical Did you show them a fake handshake? Q: F or sure, I showed em a couple a fake handshakes. Ya never show peons the real handshake, ya know what I'm sayin,Youth cuz once you gone, they might try ta use it an I wadn't tryin ta use it ta like, get people hurt, cuz after I left, what if I showed em the real handshake an showed em lit an stuff like that an they, a real BD, another real BD done came in they'd a try ta put it, they'd a got hurt, ya know. Like, ain't no such thing as a White BD, or a Mexican BD. Ain't no such thing at that, there ain't nuttin but Black BD's. I mean the name says it all, Black Disciples. Not,Minnesota Black White Disciples, not Black Mexican Disciples, ya know, it's Black Disciples so like I said I was pretty much usin em as peons ya know an money fer the weekend.Minnesota I wasn't showin em nuttin real an the little handshake I did, shit it was like a regular handshake, ya know what I'm sayin. Spiced up a little bit, when it come ta like a ... maybe two finger pointin up, throwin down a five or somethin like that, it was a regular handshake. KC: You were putting one over on them. 27.37 Q: Basically, yeah. KC: Now the other BD that I interviewed said that you can be BD from all kinds of different ethnic backgrounds. That there are White and Mexican and Native BD's.

'-., Q: Thas not how I was, naw. I don't know where he from, what he did or what State he from, but where I come from the BD's that brought me inta it an taught me all about it, wadn't no such thing as, nothin else but a Black Disciple, ya know what I'm sayin. There wadn't no, all ethnic groups, ya know what I'm sayin. Thas what you got these other gangs for, like GD an what have you. Vice Lord an all that. I could see if it was, but there ain't no such thing as a White Black Gangster Disciple, no such thing as a White BGD, Mexican BGD. BGD says it all. Like I say, I could see if the, it the GD was like GDBWM, ya know what I'm sayin, Gangster Disciple White Mexican, like that, ok, cool. But, it don't say dat. But still thas how they affiliate they selves, there's White GD's, Mexican GD's, but ain't not Black, ain't no White BD's, I know this foe a fact. There ain't no Mexicans, ain't no Native Americans, ain't no none a that. KC: How many recruits did you have that were running under you? Project Q: When I came up here, I had, I'd say like a good 15 ta 20. Cuz like Owatonna it wadn't really that big, ya know what I'm sayin. There was a lot a, there was a lot a kids runnin around there, who jus wanted ta be a part a somethin, so I gave em dat. But, at the same time, I wadn't given em nothin. I was given em what I wanted, an usin them ta get it. They didn't know the difference, but .... like I said, I'm from a big city. Ok, I'm in this small town an I'm gonna use everything I know from the city on these peopleSociety here who probably ain't been nowhere outside a Minnesota. Like a real, likeResearch probably Minneapolis is ok, but they ain't never really got out an got in Minneapolis, ya know what I'm sayin, like in them, some a them neighborhoods like up there on Hennepin Avenue, North Minneapolis, South, somewhere like dat. They ain't never been out, like in it, ya know what I'm sayin. They drove through, ya know, maybe seen a couple Blacks Gangon the comer, like oooh, wow, couple a Asian's or what have you, ya know. So I used what I learned in the city on a little hick town, an it worked to my advantage. Historical KC: Did you have functions? Q: Yeah, I pretty much, yaYouth know we'd meet up at Central Park or somethin like that. I'd be like, ya know what I'm sayin,yeah, woo, woo, woo, you didn't pay, woo, woo, woo, you owe this, an maybe I'll get a couple a the so called members ta beat em up or somethin like that so he'll learn his lesson then. Like tell em, now you owe double an ifwe don't get this you from next week, you gonna get dealt with again. The next day they was comin back wid the money, ya know what I'm sayin,Minnesota like a week in advance befoe they was suppose to, jus cuz they feared that other whoopin that they was gonna get. Cuz the first whoopin you get I had like one a theMinnesota so called members do an the second one that you hafta get, I be in on that one, ya know what I'm sayin. It was jus pretty much a power thing, about me bein from the city an knowin so much. They was scared a me already, ya know, jus cuz I the way I talked, I mean cuz I give em a look like, don't play wid me man, do I look like a joke to you or somthin. An, they see that look an they .. .it's pretty much like given a little child a look like, ya know what I'm sayin when dey do somethin wrong, ya know you give em a certain look an he freeze like I ain't gonna do it no more an go sit down. So, thas how, thas the type a look I was given em, like man if you ever do it again, dude. 31.18

KC: Did you give yourself some rank? Did they think that you had rank? Q: They thought I had rank, but I never, ya know what I'm sayin, came out like - oh I'm this, I'm that. Cuz, like I said, if I was any a that, ifl came up ta Minnesota a Region or any a that, the BD's woulda made sure I came here with some type a money, or somethin, where I coulda made money for the organization while I was in another state as well as myself, ya know what I'm sayin took care a the Nation as well as myself, too, but I didn't come up here wid nothin, but myself an my word. Thas all I came up here with an thas what I used. KC: So, when you'd go back to Chicago would you tell them back in Chicago, the little set that you were running here? Q: Yeah, yeah I tell em. If anything they all they gonna do is laugh about it. Say like, man, bring me up there, ya know what I'm sayin. I brought a couple BD's up here from my set, ya know what I'm sayin. Man, thas all they be like, man, I had, man Folks, I Projecthad woo, woo, woo, up here doin this, doin that. Man you lie Folks, no Folks on the D I did, Folks I'm comin up dere. Man, Folks is it straight, yeah it's straight Folks ... come on through. They runnin up here. KC: You said you had 12, 13? What was the ethnic background of those that were running under you? Q: White, Mexican an like one or two Asian. But, the majoritySociety was White, Mexican stuff like that. Cuz, when I came there, it was like, thereResearch wadn't that many Blacks. I say like, when I first came, it was like probably ten Blacks in the whole town of a population oflike probably 27,000 an thas, thas small, in my eyes thas small right there. 27,000, probably like 10, not even 5% Black, so it's pretty much like White an Mexican majority. There wadn't even that many Asians there Gang 33.20 KC: So, you said around New Year's there wasHistorical a problem and the law enforcement said get out of town? Q: Urn huh. It had, like I Youthhad said, it had stemmed from a incident that happened. Like around October, like right before the New Year had came in, it was me, this one Blackstone dude well actually it was three Blackstone dudes. Two of em had jus came up from Chicago, my cousin, this urn Mexican dude we use ta hang out wid an this one White dude, so it was, like I said, a total a six of us in a mini-van, right. An, the White dude tha was wid us, he had like a little altercation withMinnesota this other White dude an the other White dude he had like 9, 10, 11 people ridin around him, ya know what I'm sayin, they was like two, three cars deep. Big BlackMinnesota dudes, big Mexican dudes and shit, they-we gonna whoop his ass, woo, woo, woo, we gonna beat the hell outa him. We like, man, ya know what I'm sayin, we ridin around wid em, he got people threatenin him course we gonna take it like they threatenin us, too. So, ya know, we like man, whacha all wanna do? So, they like man, meet us up here, an woo, woo, woo an all this. We like man, we ain't gonna meet no where, you all wanna box, let's do this right here. So, the dude who wanted ta fight the dude that was wid us, he was like, well, let him come wid me an I'll drive us out in the country an me an him can fight an I'll bring em back. We like, man what the hell, ya know what I'm sayin, we never heard a nothin like that. You don't like him, but chu want him ta get in your car wich you and ride off wich you

somewhere an fight, man, please man, get the hell outa here. So we had get ta this park called Mineral Springs, right. We get out, we tell him, ya know what I'm sayin, we ... we the whole way there, we give him the gang plan, we like man look you jus swing on em one time an jus get out the wayan we gonna bum rush em and fuck everybody up. Cuz they had been like man it's one on one, it's one on one. So, then we got in the van, we like it ain't no damn one on one. You hit em once, you miss, jus get out the way, let the real mother fucker take care of..so, we get up there, he swung at em, right, an he slipped in some damn rocks man, he slipped an he fell an the dude jus jumped on em an started beatin the hell outa him .. An, so the Mexican dude I was with, he walked up ta me he was like, you get the big dude, I'm bout ta go over here. So, we like awright cool. Everybody get to pickin who they gonna go knock right, so after that dude walked up to another Mexican dude an he jus - wuz up now, bitch? An, started stompin dude in the head right, then we jus got ta knockinProject people's ass's out, I mean we jus, we beat everybody up. I mean, we jus man, we went ballistic. We beat dudes up, we beat girls up, we beat everybody up. An, my cousin, she a female right, but you wouldn't a knowed if she was fightin, cuz she fight like a man. I mean she take licks an she give emjust as good as she can take em too. KC: What's her affiliation? 36.31 Society Q: She GD, she a GD. But, man for her ta be a GDResearch boy she (unclear), I'm tellin ya she (unclear) boy. KC: So, it sounds like this was a group of friends and you were from all different gangs? So this wasn't per say about defending one gang? Q: No, it wadn't like that at all, but likeGang I say, when it all boiled down ta what came down like after the New Year had came an thas how the police made it, ya know what I'm sayin, thas how the police printed it in the paper. LikeHistorical it was gang related. Cuz, it was like, like I said the town, the town of Owatonna the majority is pretty much White, with a little bit a Mexican thrown in there, ta try Youthta even it out. But, it was like a whole bunch a minorities against a whole lot a White people, so they try ta make it seem like it was gang related cuz they had already knew about the White boys runnin around callin they selves White Power, ya know what I'm sayin, New World Order before they NWO wrestling stuff even came out, they was callin they selves this, so it all happened like right downtown on Main Street, it was people pullin over, like stoppinMinnesota cars an gettin out an lookin. An, here we are like 5 or 6 of us fightin a whole bunch a White people in the middle a the street an shit. KC: DidMinnesota you get arrested right then and there? Did the police come? 38.03 Q: We like, we ran, right. Then the dude who was drivin, we had a route already made out. This dumb ass, he went the wrong way, right an we ended up gettin caught by the police, man. I was, man it was, man I was straight, I was pissed off KC: Why did you pick Rochester as a place to move to? Q: Blacks. I'm one a, I ain't, me gettin ready ta have a kid, ya know what I'm sayin, I didn't wanna go back ta Chicago an try ta raise my child in that type a lifestyle, ya know what I'm sayin. Worry about my baby's mother not wantin ta come ta Chicago an live there, cuz all

the stories an stuff An, I didn't wanna put her through that as well as my child, an so I made the decision ta jus, ya know what I'm sayin, come ta Rochester. Like it said on thing when I was drivin here, it's a Minnesota Star City, ya know, so let me check it out. KC: Now, when you'd find girls to date, would you find Black girls or White girls or .... Q: I don't discriminate when it comes ta females, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm .... Black, White, Mexican, Asian, don't matter ta me. A females, a female as long as they look good. KC: So the mothers of your two children, what's there cultural background? Q: Urn, my first baby's mother she White an one thas carryin my child now, she Puerto Rican. KC: Did you find that a lot of the Minnesota girls were anxious to date you? 39.4? Q: Yeah, like more than you believe. More than you would think. Jus for them ta even say they, they went with a Black dude, thas a big thing. Like when I first wentProject ta Owatonna, I mean, I mean it was unbelievable, ya know, it wadn't like I wadn't use ta havin females wantin me or nothin like that. But, when I got ta Minnesota it was like, jus like totally blown outa proportion, like I came here an they was actin like I was a pop star, ya know what I'm sayin, a rap star, a movie star or somthin like that. They, they was comin at me from all angles. An, I be datin one an her friend or maybe somebody who knowed em would be tryin ta get wid me at the same time, an don't even care. I be like, man but I Societygo wid..... she ain't gotta know, ya know what I'm sayin, stufflike that. I'm like,Research man you all like here like that, I thought that only happened in Chicago. I guess they fool me, boy, they fool me. KC: So when you say they wanted to get with you, they wanted to date you in hopes oftaking you away from the other girl? Or they just wanted to have sex with you? 40.48 Gang Q: Both, both. Whichever one came first, like I found like, when I was in Owatonna it was, I ain't gonna say it was easy ta sleep wid a Historical'girl there, but it all depended like, in Owatonna you could pretty much talk a girl up out a drawers, ya know what I'm sayin, thas jus how easy it was. Not ta say that theyYouth was sluts or whatever, cuz most of em was like preppie girls who never had sex before in their lives, but for them ta hit like some of the stories they, some a things they been through in your life an how you act an stuff like that. Thas like, like wow man, we ain't around too many guys who act like him, I mean, cuz when I first went there I was loud, rude obnoxious, ya know what I'm sayin. I say what the hell I wanted ta say, I didn't wanna worryMinnesota about nobody. I wadn't scared a nobody an I let it be known. Man, I'm gonna do what the hell I wanna do here an they liked it. They looked at it like, man, oh my god,Minnesota he is, he is totally different. By you bein different, that attract people to you even more, ya know what I'm sayin. Cuz that, ya know, they be so use ta seein one thing for so long when somethin new and excitin come along they wanna be the first one ta say they was a part of it, ya know what I'm sayin, so thas how it was. KC: How many girls did you talk outa their drawers? 42.09 Q: Man, man, I ain't braggin an I ain't the one ta lie on my Johnson (?) or whatever you wanna call it, more than 15, I can put it that way more than 15. KC: This is at the same time you're dating our baby's mom?

<." COPYRIGHT: HAND In HAND, Post Office Box, 65522, Saint Paul, MN 55165 ===651-227-5987 Quan 13

Q: This was befoe. Like befoe. KC: Did you have any girls in your set in Owatonna? Q: Urn, naw, I wouldn't say that. KC: Now, you'd been blessed in. Most of the time in Chicago, people are blessed into the BD's, am I correct in that? Q: Yeah, you correct. KC: You don't beat people in. But, here when you were creating this click, did you bless them in or beat them in. 43.03 Q: We's beatin people. Thas somethin new right there, I was man, I was enjoyin it. I mean we wasn't like physically hurtin em, hurtin em, ya know what I'm sayin, ta put em in a hospital, but we was givin em good face shots, ya know, an body shots jus taProject see if they could take it, ya know what I'm sayin. Yeah, I was beatin the hell outa people up here. KC: Did they think they needed to be beat in to be real gangsters? Q: Yep. They thought whatever got done to em was suppose ta be done in order for them ta say they belong. KC: How did you know that you were suppose to beat them in, even though you'd never been exposed to that in Chicago? Society Q: I didn't, ya know, it was jus I'd get mad, ya knowResearch what I'm sayin, or have aggression built up, I'd be like: man, ok it's time ta do this, whoever wanna be a BD we gonna beat the hell out a him, beat their ass. Cuz, some a the little so called clicks that was there when I got there, thas how they went about doin it. So, I'm like what the heck, if they get away with beatin the hell outa people I gonnaGang beat the hell outa some people, ya know, I'm the real gangster around here. Hell, let me beat some ass, ya know what I'm sayin, see how they react, so thas what I was doin. Historical KC: Is the click in Owatonna still going since you left? 44,18 Youth Q: Uh uh. Mos a them like, like I said, the dudes that I got into it with about their racism stuff, it..the majority of dem was the same dudes who use ta be a part a that little click I had goin. But, as they got older I guess they wanted ta be Black people haters, Mexican haters an stuff like this, so, ended up havin ta beat their ass. KC: So, the dudes you Minnesotagot into had been in your click and then they were leaving your click and become White Supremists? Q: Yep,Minnesota basically. Yep, thas how it was. KC: Curious. What happened when you moved to Rochester? Did you say, hey this is a good deal, I'm gonna start a new click? 45.03 Q: When I came to Rochester, I was pretty much lookin at stuff like man, I done been locked up, I done been through this, I done been through that. I had jus got into that altercation at Owatonna an got that 2nd degree assault. Now thas a felony in itself right there, I already got two a them. Ifl get one more by the time I'm 25, I'm doin prison time. An, by me bein 18 if I get another felony they gonna bring up all three in court, an by me having three felonies

alone, they ain't gonna be no sense for no trial, ya know, I'm automatically goin ta prison, so I came here with the mentality like~ man, ya know what I'm sayin, man, I'm... fuck that, I know what I am, I ain't gonna be ashamed ta say what I am, but I ain't gonna get out here an get ta acting stupid neither, ya know what I'm sayin, at the same time, so I came out here with the mentality like man get out here an try ta get my shit together an do right. I got a baby comin, an this was befoe my first child was born. Thas the type a attitude I came ta Rochester with. KC: How long were you dating your baby's mom? Q: I say, we was off an on, for like six months. When she had got pregnant, she hada got pregnant on like probably my 17th birthday or somthin like that. KC: Did you tell your girlfriend that she could be a BD by dating you? Q: Uh uh. How I ended up with my first baby, she had like, she was goinProject with my cousin. She use ta date my cousin an she was like a virgin when she first started him. He hit it or whatever, he left for long .... an moved on to somethin else. Then I had came around, an she - oh, I like him, woo, woo an all this. Then she found out I was his cousin an she wanted me even more then. So, ya know what I'm sayin, so I hit a couple a times, started callin myself Santa whatever. Off an on, go with her, hit it, break up wid her, go with it, break up with her, don't even touch it, then jus break up with her for someSociety stupid thing. She jus so happened ta get pregnant on my birthday an we wadn'tResearch even goin together then. It jus, I was drunk an messed up, wham, wham, boom, bing, ended up gettin pregnant. She thought tha was gonna keep us together, but I let her know, hey - when you got pregnant, we wadn't together, ya know what I'm sayin. I don't want chu no moe, but - I don't want chu becuz you pregnant, but ya know I don't wantGang chu becuz a you, but I wanna be there for my child. But as far as me an you concerned, ain't nothin. Me an you is pretty much a memory, only ties I gonna have wich you from here on Historicalout is becuz a my child. Ain't no moe us, it's me an my baby, now, ya know what I'm sayin. Ain't me, the baby an you. It's me an the baby an you ain't no factor no moe,Youth ya know what I'm sayin. It's whatever, I prefer you ta move on. Go get chu another man, but thas my child an he gonna grow up knowin I'm his dad ya know plain an simple. KC: How do yo know that you were the daddy if you weren't dating her anymore? 48.44 Q: Blood test when theMinnesota baby were born. I didn't really hafta get the blood test, ifthey let us have picture in here, I could show you a picture a my son an you sit up here an say ain't no way youMinnesota could deny that. I mean, he look jus like me, he got the round face, the big cheeks an all that. He look jus like his daddy. He jus a lighter version a me. Curly hair, but I got blood test, stuff like that that 90% positive that the baby was mine, ya know what I'm sayin. KC: How did you feel when you found you were a dad? Did you believe you were going to be the dad when she was pregnant? Q: I pretty much, I was like 8 out a 10 times I was positive it was mine, but I had 1 or 2% that I thought, yeah my ass this baby mine, probably might be my cousin's baby. She mighta went back ta him. But, I was pretty positive the baby was mine, an when she had it, I seen him. I'm like man, thas mine, thas me right there. He gonna carry on the name when I'm gone.

Now that I got another one on the way, it's like two boys, man I got two ta carry on the name. I wanted a girl though, but I ain't picky, I love it either way, ya know what I'm sayin. KC: Now you said you were both messed up. How old were you when you started using chemicals? 50.25 Q: Like the first time I ever had some weed I was like 7 years old. An tha was on, I remember it too, it was like on a Christmas day an like we was like, you might as well say poor, right, cuz we didn't get nothin for Christmas, ya know what I'm sayin. My rna was real depressed an shlfl: she had lit a joint, right, an she was smokin an cryin an stuff She was like hell, here go ahead, I ain't gonna hit cha, here. Ya know, by me bein 7, ya know, I didn't know no better, ya know, mama tellin me ta do it. Obviously it must not be too bad so, ya know what I'm sayin, no problem. A little coughin, a little chokin like I'm aboutProject ta die. Then like a couple years like around when I turned 13, I started smokin weed an stuff like that, ya know. I mean I never like ventured away from like smokin weed. Ya know, I never went ta go try like cocaine, heroine or nothin like that. All I've ever smoked is weed, I ain't never try ta go lookin for a better high than weed. Cuz in my eyes, man, if the weed can't do it for me than I'm straight. Cuz as far as I'm concerned ain't nothin wrong with smokin weed. I can see ifit, you smoke weed an go out an commit a murder or somethinSociety like that, you don't do, you don't do nothin like that off a weed. You do stuffResearch like that off a heroine an coke an ya know what I'm sayin, stufflike that. Acid an stufflike that, that can mess you up. Like, I think it was like you take so many hits a that you, like to the society you described as bein psychotic an crazy. I ain't with that. I do drink alcohol, but as far as like chemicals thas all I've ever used since I started. Gang 52.22 Historical KC: Do you smoke blunts or joints, bowls? Q: I smoke blunts. KC: How many blunts a dayYouth have you smoked when you were smoking the most? Q: I'd say when I started smokin the most, I was like smokin, you could pretty much say like whole ounces a day. Anywhere ta like 12, 15,20 blunts a day. I meanjus non-stop from the time I wake up ta the time I pass out that night, whatever. KC: How old were you? Q: Varied, like when IMinnesota really started like gettin inta the big time, chiefin, as we call it, I was like 17, 18 now ya know. But like before that it was like two, three blunts, four blunts man I'm bombed.Minnesota Now, it's like man 12, 15 ... ah, man we jus gettin started, let's see how many moe we can smoke, ya know. KC: You used the word chiefing C-H-I-E-F-I-N-G? Q: Yeah. KC: Define chiefing for me. 53.21 Q: Like smokin weed, gettin bombed or whatever, ya know. Smokin herb, weed, marijuana, whatever you wanna call it or we call it chiefin, gettin blowed, gettin bombed. Sometimes we even say we about ta get jig, a know what I'm sayin. It all mean the same thing, we just got

different slang terms for it. KC: What all have you sold as far as chemicals? Q: I've sold coke, heroine ... thas pretty much it, I dabbed with acid when I came ta Owattona an dabbed with some shrooms when I came, but I never really got inta that. But, I always sold coke an heroine. 54.1 KC: Do you sell weed too? Q: Thas one thing I learned, you don't ever sell nothin you gonna smoke. So, I ain't never really tried ta sell no weed, cuz I be smoked up all my weed, ya know what I'm sayin, cuz I smoke weed, so I ain't gonna try ta sell no weed when I smoke weed, cuz I know I'm gonna smoke jus as much as I sell, cuz I know I ain't got ta buy it. It's jus right there, so if it' s right there course I ain't gonna run out an buy it from somebody else. IfI got myProject own weed, jus ta keep me from smokin up my own product, naw I ain't never tried ta sell no weed. KC: Did you get product through BG or would you find other suppliers here in Minnesota to get our product from to sell? Q: Sometimes I got through the BD's, sometimes I like ... go through a friend a mine. Like (unclear) who gots some people up in the cities. I got a couple a relatives up in the cities that I go through, so it depends. Society KC: So you basically go to Minneapolis or St. Paul toResearch get your supplies? Q: Yeah. KC: Which city more? Q: Probably Minne. KC: And more connecting with the GD'sGang up there to get supplies? Q: Um? KC: Would you connect with the GD's up thereHistorical more to get supplies or did you connect with BD's up there? 55.31 Youth Q: I connected with the GD's, cuz like I said, I got some relatives up there an most a them GD's an they get they stufffrom Chicago, ya know what I'm sayin, so it's jus like I'm gettin the product from home, cuz they bringin it from home. By it comin from there, I know it's potent, back home you ain't gonna make no money unless you got some (unclear) ya know what I'm sayin. The (unclear)Minnesota take a hit an they right back, the gonna rob somebody for it, so, if you gettin it from the (unclear) like that, ya know if you bring it down here to a place like Rochester,Minnesota Owatonna, you know you gonna make a killin. You know you gonna get chu money. So, man, yeah. KC: Would it be already cooked up for you or would you cook it up yourself? 56.15 Q: Sometimes I'll, I'll rock it up when I get up der, either that or I'll go up an get it in powder then bring it back down here, den rock it up, cuz it's better ta have it in powder in case you get caught, ya know what I'm sayin. Cuz you get more years for havin it rocked up an stuff like that. You need, you need like so many grams a powder befoe you can even get 5 years, ya know, but whereas if you have it rocked up, two like $50 rocks, you get you some times

injail, you know what I'm sayin? Whereas the powder you got ta have, I think it's like 100 grams befoe you can even get 5 years, so. I rather, pretty much have the powder. KC: How old were you when you were taught how to cook it up, produce product? 57.00 Q: Like 14, 15 . Young, I was, like I said 14, 15. Seen my uncles an them do it. I seen people on my dad's side do it, an my ... couple a my aunties on my daddy's side, they was Vice, Sister Vice Lord's an stuff like that, cuz sometimes the Lords or whatever you wanna call em, will bring it to they crib an they'll cook it up for the Lord's an stuff like dat. I use ta sit up there an watch them, or they try ta keep me from watchin them. But, I try some way ta see what they was doin. So, you know...... KC: Since you've been in Rochester, you didn't try to start another set ofyour own, so have you been hanging out with a different set? Project 57.54 Q: Like, like I said I'm real picky about who I kick it wid. Like anybody I hang wid, they .. J put anybody I decide I wanna like hang out wid or wanna hang out wid me, I put em through like a little test that they don't know about. I'm lookin at the, the individuality. I'm tryin ta see if they a leader or a follower, ya know what I'm sayin. Cuz, myself, ya know, people might consider me a follower cuz a the way I went about gettin intaSociety the gang, but as far as up inta this point right now by me bein 18, an even befoeResearch this I consider myselfbein a leader, becuz I'm not gonna follow somebody else's lead. Even though I went towards the Folks way, I still went into a different organization, you know what I'm sayin. I didn't become a GD, I didn't become a BGD, I became a BD. So, ya know, I look for people like - individuality ya know what I'm sayin. I like people Gangta be real (unclear), I hate ta be with people that like beat around the bush. An I'm always gonna try ta find somebody ain't gonna snitch, like we do some dirt together, I wanna at least be ableHistorical ta trust in who I'm kickin wid enough ta know as soon it get hot they ain't gonna be like - well, Johnny Woo Woo did it an me an him, an we got the gun from hisYouth crib an yeah, um.. he live over there by woo woo, yeah, I'll take you to his house. Ya know I don't wanna, like I said you can pretty much distinguish the real ones from the phonies, ya know what I'm sayin, so thas what I do. KC: What are the affiliations of those that you're kickin it with now? Q: Um, some GD's, like two Crips an every now an then I'll run across an occasional Vice Lord or Blackstone. Minnesota KC: What's the cultural background of those that you're hanging with? Q: They,Minnesota they pretty much all Black, except for like the one, one dude is named Barrett, White dude. He cool though, ya know what I'm sayin. I consider him Black, too, ya know. He cool as hell. KC: What makes him cool? Q: Even though he White, he bout it, he is all man, I mean he still young. He's 16, 17 whatever, but cha know what I'm sayin, he got it upstairs. He got a brain. He think for his self. Jus cuz somebody else doin somethin, he ain't gonna run out an do it, too. Thas what I like about people, for them ta have they own mind. Ya know if I be like - man, we gonna rob this jewelry store an you comin in with us. I at least want you ta be man enough ta be like - man,

what the hell you talkin about, you go rob it yourself, I ain't gonna sit in jail fer you. If anything, I'm gonna go ta jail, cuz I want to, not cuz ya all gonna do it an ya know I wanna cut an we all end up gettin caught an I'm gonna sit in jail for a,a lick that wadn't even mine. Ya know what I'm sayin, I'd rather get licked up fer somethin that came from my brain, that I thought about doin instead of somethin that came from somebody else's brain. KC: So now these GD's and couple Crips, do you kind of have your own set? I mean do you hang out every day? Q: Yeah. We even got ta the point where we call ourselves Unknown. KC: Unknown? So you're just kind of like Unknown gang? Q: Yeah, like .. cuzit's like there's so many organizations, like it's all ofus together an we so cool wid each other, instead a, ya know what I'm sayin, always bringin up the fact what we is, we jus say we Unknown, ya know what I'm sayin, we one. We all differentProject types a organizations rolled inta one, so we jus call ourselves Unknown so we don't be no problems. KC: How many member are there in Unknown? Q: There's like 15 a us. KC: Fifteen all Black kids having been initiated into various other gangs? Are you all from other places other than Rochester? Q: Urn huh. All of us is. Some of us from ah ... some of emSociety from Minneapolis, some from Milwaukee, some from Chicago, there's like oneResearch or two thas from L.A., two or three thas from like down South in Louisiana. I say it's only like 2 a the 15 a us, thas actually from Minnesota. All of us like scattered from different states an stuff. KC: There's only one White dude in all of this group. Q: Urn huh. Gang KC: Is he from Minnesota? 102.34 Historical Q: Uhuh. KC: Where is he from? Youth Q: Tennessee. KC: [laugh] I want a picture of your facial expression. Why is that, cuz you're so surprised he could be from Tennessee and be a "good gangster"? Q: Basically, yeah. Cuz, like I said, I was in Kentucky (unclear) an we drove through Tennessee, we was in Oak GroveMinnesota an Clarksville, Tennessee where he from, that ain't nowhere from Oak Grove, Kentucky, thas like you walk outside or walk a couple blocks up the street an you there.Minnesota It was rainin in Clarksville you could be like standin on the line like this an this is Oak Grove, this is Clarksville, it's rainin right here on the Clarksville side, but it's dry right here, ya know what I'm sayin, so as soon as you step over here, you gettin rained on, soon as you step back it was dry. It was like that. So, ya know what I'm sayin, thas why I couldn't see it, ya know, I'm like WHAT? You from Tennessee? Clarksville, WHAT? Whachu talkin about an you like this. An, but like I said, he cool as hell, man. He cool. KC: What do you guys do? What's the day in the life of Unknown's in Rochester? 103.53 Q: Eh, we pretty much, ya know what I'm sayin, stay up til 2:00 in the mornin, wake up about

Noon, smoke a cigarette. Sometimes we wake up jus in time ta watch Jeny Springer, ya know what I'm sayin, smoke a couple squares, plan a day. Maybe go next door to the part or somethin, play ball. Figure out how we gonna get up on a bag a weed, ya know what I'm sayin. Pretty much we wake up every mornin lookin at a hustle. If we broke we always wake, like man, what we gonna do ta get some loot in our pocket an thas so we can get chiefed, or man, how we gonna get a drink or somethin. We always like, our brain is constantly workin when we sleep, sometimes we'll wake up like awright man, this is what we gonna do right here man, this is gonna be a quick $100. Boom, we wake up, if everybody else feel like, yeah, thas straight, thas what we doin foe the day. KC: How many of you live together? 104.40 Q: No none of us live together, we jus always meet up at the sameProject spot like every day an sometimes, I mean I guess you could say we kind of live together, cuz we always end up stayin at each other's houses. Ya know none of us go to school. An the ones that do, they go ta night school. An one of em go ta RTC, like once a week an stuff, so we pretty much got time, ya know what I'm sayin, where we ain't got ta wony about no certain curfews or nothin like that cuz it ain't like we gotta get up at 7 in the mornin an go ta school or go ta work or nuttin like that, so. Society KC: What's the age range of all 15 of you? Research Q: Like, the youngest is like 16, but I say like between 16 an ... I'm pretty much the oldest one, 16 ta 18. KC: Do some live with their families? Because you live independently. Q: Yeah. The majority of em live withGang their families. KC: In Minnesota usually organizations will do a variety of money making adventures. You know, sometimes there's car robbing, carHistorical jacking to home invasions? What's all the different money making activities that you participate in besides drug dealing? 105.58 Youth Q: We pretty much be on beat out type shit, ya know what I'm sayin, we too .. .1 ain't never been a one like stealin no cars or nuttin like dat. I have like broken inta cars an like checked em for money an stufflike that, valuable stuff, but like I said Rochester ain't really the place ta be breakin in no houses an breakin in cars an all this, but, they may sound odd, the way we come up with our Minnesotalittle money makin things, but they work. Sometimes we'll go stand downtown at the Galleria an jus bum dollars all day, ya know what I'm sayin, a dollar here, twoMinnesota dollars there an by the end a the day, we can came up with $30 in one dollar bills, somethin like that. Or, we'll go lookin aroun .. man, who want weed? who want this? Oh we want some weed. How much you want? A fifty. Ok, give us yo money. They give us their money, they never see it again, ya know what I'm sayin. We jus, pretty much we call it a donation to the poor nation when we ain't got no money, ya know what I'm sayin. We try ta look for anybody who gonna be stupid enough to pull some money out they pocket an jus give it to us an let us walk away from em, wid out them comin wid us. Like I said they sweeties, anytime we can find a sweetie, I'm happy. Ya know, ifI'm broke thas the main thing I'm lookin at - man, ok, who can I get today?

KC: Sweetie is a vulnerable person that's just going to blindly trust you, right? Q: Right. KC: Do you find in Rochester, there's lots of sweeties? Q: A whole lot a sweeties here, a bowl full of em. A bowl full of sweeties. KC: All White folk? Q: White, Black, Mexican, Asian. Like I said, I don't discriminate, it was jus, ya know what I'm sayin, like I said in Owatonna tha was the majority of the people, Whites, I ain't got no problem wid White people or no other ethnic background, but if I find that I can get, that I got a way that I can get chu without havin ta physically hurt you, I'm gonna do it. I mean I'm not gonna blindly ride chu, I'm gonna ride you while you lookin dead at you. Like, say foe instance I'm runnin script on you about somethin, I'm like - man, I need this, I need that, ya know what I'm sayin an you know foe a fact that I don't need it, butProject I'm talkin ta you so good, tha you ain't got no choice but ta believe an think that I need it, tha you gonna actually give it ta me. KC: So, ifyou're such a smooth talker and can just dish out all this shit, how do I know that you don't think I'm a sweetie and you're just giving me a bunch of bull shit. 108.29 Q: Cuz # 1, the way you came at me, the way Cheryl came at Societyme, ya know, # 1 lain 't got no reason ta sit up here an lie about how I done livedResearch an what I done been through, cuz # 1 I feel thas for stupid mother fuckers, ya know what I'm sayin, who embarrassed about they, they childhood ya know what I 'm sayin. Everything I done sat up here an tol you right now ain't nothin but fact, an ifI had a stack a bibles I'd put my hand on that. IfI felt like you was a sweetie, I wouldn't be sittin hereGang talkin ta you right now. I could be in my room asleep right about now, cuz thas normally what I'd be doin right about now, ya know what I'm sayin. Either dat or I wouldn't a been hereHistorical even this long talkin ta you, I woulda jus said a couple a things an be like I'm done, I don't wanna say no more. I'm pretty much gave you a run down a my wholeYouth life an what I been doin up ta this point. All this time, an I don't even know you. I'm jus goin on what chu tol me an what I read on that little page or whatever, thas all I 'm doin, so like I said, lain 't got no reason ta sit up here an lie ta you about nothin. An, ifyou feel like it's a lie all I got ta say is you can stop the tape. KC: No, I don't. I think you're being straight with me. What information you're giving me is similar to other informationMinnesota I have about BD and other people that have come in from other states. So, no I think you are being straight. But, you know you gotta ask that question. DoMinnesota you have females in Unknown? Q: Uh uh. It ain't, not like we be tryin ta discriminate, but it'd be like, when it, when it's us, ya know what I'm sayin, be like so many of us dudes kickin it. It ain't, it ain't really I ain't ran inta that many females at all here in Rochester who even call they selfbein affiliated with a gang. They may hang out with gang members, but they don't be like - ah, yeah I'm GD or I'm BD or I'm Crip or none a that. They'll be like I hang out with Crips, yeah I hang out with GD's, yeah I hang out with this, but they don't affiliate they selves with it. They jus look at it as like - ok, they jus a much cool mother fuckers, who like ta party, we like hangin wid em, ya know what I'm sayin, an they cool. We don't disrespect em or nuttin like dat.

KC: Do you find here in Rochester that the girls find you something unique and they're willing to lay down for you? Q: Not really here, cuz there was Blacks here befoe I even came, ya know what I'm sayin, so they might a got that game, or whatever ran on em, back in the day, so they hip to it now. So, ain't nothin really excitin to em. They probably done seen it all from like somebody from out a state come in here an showin it to em rather than you gonna actually bein in the situation. So some of em kinda got (unclear) either that or they know somebody or use ta be mends with somebody who was goin through it from somebody else an learned from they mistakes. A may, shoulda never fall victim ta anything like that, so, uh uh. KC: When we were talking before, earlier today, you had said that the police had rolled up on you in Owatonna. What's your opinion of the police in Owatonna and then in Rochester? 111.57 Project Q: The police in Owatonna they flat out racism. They'll let ya know they racism. They don't care, they let chu know. Hey, this is our town, this is White town, you Whites, you Mexicans, you Asians you all don't need ta be here, an they'll let chu know. Whereas Rochester, there's couple a racist policemen here, like the day I had got arrested, on Memorial Day, the cop that arrested me he was real racist, cuz ya know what I mean, some a the things he did in the process a him handcuffin me wadn'tSociety even called foe. Ya know, like a course when you gettin handcuffed, a course youResearch gonna be mad, specially when you gettin cuffed on a public .... .like I'm on North Broadway, South Broadway, Broadway period. Broadway always full a people, there's always cars drivin by, there's always business type people walkin by. Ok, cool, I might not know all these people but then again, I don't want all these people seein this stuff happenGang ta me, ya know what I'm sayin, he's sittin out here handcuffin me, he's got em tighten up, like man, like I'm goin somewhere, motherfucker, ya know what I'm sayin, you can loosen theHistorical cuffs. He like you better shut the fuck up befoe I make ya. I'm like .... man, bitch, I'm like ... what? I'm like .... man take these handcuffs offme, I'm gonna show you motherYouth fucker. So he gets ta slammin my head up against the newspaper stand an shit, right cuz when I first came in here I had like two big ass knots right here from him slammin my head on the newspaper stand machine. Man, I was mad an the mother fucker, man an tha was the same cop I had told you I had got into the little altercation with earlier that day, cuz he wanted ta know my name, cuz that was the first time I seen him at circle park an I wouldn'tMinnesota tell em who I was. Then when he finally got me, he was like - yeah, I tol you I was gonna find out who you was an all this, but I done run into a couple racist cops,Minnesota but I also ran into some cops who caught me with weed an jus took it from me an be like - yeah, don't let me catch you no moe, ya know what I'm sayin, caught me wid weed an wrote me a ticket an be like don't let me catch you down here again. They didn't take my weed, jus gave me a ticket. Nine times outa ten they jus gave me the ticket ta scare me an I ain't even end up havin ta go ta court. I show up at court an it'd be like, I sat in there - an is the date right on here, ya know what I'm sayin, the day be right, the time be right, then I go look on the little sheet, my name ain't nowhere on the paper. So, they jus gave me the ticket ta try ta scare me an maybe try ta get me ta stray away from that lifestyle, but never really turned the ticket in. I done ran inta a couple police like that, but I done ran inta some

racist ones too. KC: What's the name of the guy that beat you up? 114.35 Q: Fred Fanning. KC: Fred Fanning? Q: Yeah, Fanning, whatever, I call him fattening though. KC: So, you've seen some racist cops, you've seen some cops that don't hold you accountable, what's your opinion of the cops here in Rochester? Q: It varies man, from cop ta cop, ya know what I'm sayin. There's this one Asian cop here, he tries so hard, ya know what I'm sayin, ta be like the White police he, it jus makes me sick ta my stomach even amongst people who like, his ethnic background, they can't stand em, cuz he don't even, he don't even relate to the Asians or Vietnamese, whatever.Project He don't even talk the language no more. He try ta talk like a White person, ya know what I'm sayin. I ain't sayin there's nothin wrong with bein proper, cuz it ain't, ya know what I'm sayin, you can tell when somebody tryin ta be somethin they ain't, ya know what I'm sayin, an thas how he act. Like he - well, urn, ya know, we're gonna hafta take ya downtown an we're gonna hafta book you on these specific charges - ya know, that type a bull shit, ya like - what? man what? Come on dude, why don't ya act yo color? An, as Societyfar as I'm concerned they need some moe Black cops here, cuz they ain't got none.Research As far as, jus like in Owatonna, ya know, they gettin all these female policemen up here in Rochester an all these other ethnic groups, why don't ya all get some Black cops here. Like some cops that can relate. Cuz, I done said this plenty a times befoe, you can take every cop in Rochester an put them in Chicago environment an bring like 5 or 6 policemenGang from Chicago an put them here, I guarantee the policemen from Rochester they would not survive one day in Chicago on those streets. Cuz, anytime you come to a city, like the peopleHistorical or the gangs or whatever don't give a damn about you bein a cop an will shoot at yo ass no matter what. Man, how, how can you deal wid dat. How can you, I mean theyYouth so use ta bein here, lookin at it like, ya know what I'm sayin, the police in Chicago, anytime they patrol the streets you best believe they wearin bullet proof vests. They got bullet proof glass on the cars and stuff like that. KC: Do you take the cops in Rochester seriously? 116.49 Q: Theyajoke. Minnesota KC: Why are they a joke? Q: Cuz,Minnesota cuz they, like I said, they phony man, they ain't never really seen combat. I'm gonna put it to you like that. All they know is a typical jaywalk, ok a typical drug bust. Ok, no big deal. They ain't never been fired upon or nothin like that, ya know what I'm sayin. They ain't never been put in no life or death situations. Kinda like the police in Chicago had, undercover detectives and stufflike that infiltratin inta gangs, ya know what I'm sayin, thas serious, they kill an stuff like dat. They ain't never been subdued ta none a that man, ya know, they don't know nutthin about it. All they know is what they done seen on documents an what people like me or what other people might say, thas all they know. They don't know nothin.

Quan 23

KC: Do you think: the cops in Minneapolis/ St. Paul are real soldiers? 117.45 Q: Most definitely. Most definitely, they know, cuz I pretty much look at Minneapolis as a baby Chicago. In couple a years, Minneapolis gonna be right up there with Chicago, ifnot worse, ya know what I'm sayin. Cuz, it's pretty much so many people in Minneapolis that migrated from Chicago or Milwaukee. There's a couple people from LA up in Minneapolis, so it's people, the make-up of Minneapolis is made up of people from like big inner cities. I'm gonna say they like, like places where violence an drug dealin an stuff like that is like a every day part a livin, so they come ta Minneapolis an apply them tactics to their everyday livin like they would where they originally from an thas why Minneapolis the way it is, I think:. 118.33 KC: Have you ever thought about leaving the gang? Project Q: Honestly, nope. I ain't, I ain't never really thought about leavin it, but. . .I do, ya know, I ain't gonna never leave the gang. I'm always gonna be a part a it, no matter what. But, as far as the way I carry myself, I got kids ta worry about, ya know what I'm sayin. I'm responsible for they safety. I'm not gonna, go back, get back ta all that fast livin lifestyle, that gang bangin, fightin an all this an all, ya know, every day, becuz I don't wanna subdue my kids ta that. I don't want them, one a them ta end up gettin hurt overSociety somethin, a beef that I got with somebody else. I don't never want my kids taResearch hafta go through nothin like that, but I'm always gonna be BD, I'm gonna die BD an I'm gonna let it be known wherever I go what I am, if somebody ask me. But, as far as the gang bangin an the shootin an all this shit, uh uh, I ain't got time for it, ya know what I'm sayin. KC: How are you going to earn the moneyGang to support your kids? And, are you going to keep smoking? Q: Well, when I get outa here, I plan on gettinHistorical employment. Thas the first thing I plan on doin an plus, I won, I recently won some money from a lawsuit, like about a year an a half ago, like about $100,000 right. An,Youth like my first kid, he already got a trust fund set up for him an when this, when this boy come I'm gonna have one set up for him, too. So, when they get ta about 17, 18, that money bein grew an built for, ya know what I'm sayin, so they have somethin ta get they lives started. KC: How did you earn money from a lawsuit? Q: I had got into a carMinnesota accident an I sued the insurance company. KC: How old were you? Q: LikeMinnesota 17, like right befoe I turned 17, like midway me bein 16, around there. KC: So, is even your money in a trust fund because you've just turned 18? 120.53 Q: It was, but as of now, I'm goin through the process of gettin all my money liquidated, ya know what I'm sayin, like turned over ta me, so ya know so it's in my name. Cuz at first I had like a guardian over my money, who I'd hafta call an like, she had ta send me checks monthly, now I'm gettin it where I can get it in my own bank account under my name. So whenever I need it I can jus go an get it widout havin ta call an wait two or three days or a week or somethin like dat.

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KC: What did you think I was going to ask you that I haven't asked you? What am I not smart enough to ask you? Q: You pretty much, you pretty much touched bases, you know what I 'm sayin, on a lot a things, but I thought you was gonna ask me if you ever killed anybody here in Minnesota or somethin like that. Some thin lame like that or ifI...do you sleep wid a gun an all this other stuff. Have I ever been shot an all this, stuff like that, but other than that you pretty much touched bases on the issues that need ta be touched You didn't ask me no stupid ass questions that I probably woulda looked at chu like you was crazy for askin me or some thin like that. But, ya know, it was decent an I appreciate it ya know. KC: Why do you stay in the gang, what's the most important thing for you about being in the gang? What do you get out of it most? 122.17 Project Q: Like I said, a sense a belongin. Even though I'm all the way in Minnesota, ta this day ifl got inta somethin that I felt like I couldn't handle, it wouldn't take nothin but a phone call an they'll be here in less than 24 hours. An thas a guarantee an they come in here ready ta do whatever, whether it be kill, or whoop somebody else, whatever. It don't matter to em, they'll come up here, kill two or three mother fuckers an go back the same day, like ain't shit happened. An, ride back talkin about it, ya know what I'mSociety sayin. So, like, like I said, like a sense a belongin, cuz I ain't really had no familyResearch structure when I was comin up. An I ain't sayin that this is a family structure for me neither, but as far as I'm concerned it is, cuz it's always been there for me, they never turned they back on me. Like my family has, so ya know, a course I ain't gonna tum my back on it an try ta walk away an jus get out an leave it alone. So, never, thas why I say IGang never think about gettin out a the gang. Never. KC: Can you retire from active gang activity? 123.28 Historical Q: Oh, a course you can. You can retire, whenever. But, you gonna always be what chu is, ya know what I'm sayin, whetherYouth you still involved in the killin or the money launderin, the dope slingin, the gang bangin, whatever. If you retire or refrain from all that, you still gonna be what chu was. You still gonna be BD, you jus probably gonna be one a them BD's who, ya know what I'm sayin, like they would call a OG. Somebody who did it all, seen it all an now jus livin life. Now jus enjoyin the rest a his life, ya know what I'm sayin. I ain't old enough ta be a OG, but I doneMinnesota seen enough in my life ta say I can be a OG. But, I'm not there yet. I wanna be able ta say that til I'm like 30 years old. KC: What'sMinnesota the scariest experience you've ever had? 124.21 Q: What I'd hafta say the scariest one was, let me see, it was like a Christmas, like about two or three years ago an it was snowin, right, an we was all outside, like right in front a the buildin. An there was this one dude, like opposition, he had came up ta one a the Folks like, like I'm standin like he is right here ta you an he jus came up ta him in broad daylight an jus like boom, ya know what I'm sayin, jus shot em right in the damn head, jus walked off like it wadn't nuttin. An here I am sittin, I got blood all on the side a my face an shit, why didn't he shoot me ta, ya know what I'm sayin. Then I look down an see my boy layin right here, pieces a his

III

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head, it was jus man. I can honestly say, death is one thing, even if you do see it up close you can never get a feel foe it, why it happens or nothin like that. I mean you see it an it's like, man, but at the same time you can't get a logical understandin for it, ya know, like why is it happenin. How can it be so easy foe somebody ta jus come take somebody else's life an then jus walk away like it ain't shit. KC: Do you have nightmares about that? Q: To this day, still. I mean, like I said thas not the only scariest experience I ever had, I mean, I had ta take like classes an stuff .like that. I had ta take temper management classes an stuff like that. Psychology classes, I done had take take psychology courses. Them crazy tests or whatever, I done had ta take stufflike that, cuz a the stuff that I seen in my life an sometimes I think I be a little bit too honest when I shouldn't be, ya know what I'm sayin. Like ta help myself, but I feel like I ain't got no reason ta lie ta nobody, I'm gonnaProject keep it real no matter what. I'm always been the one ta speak my mind an deal with the consequences later cuz the way I was brought up, I was brought up not ta bite my tongue for nobody, no matter what the situation is. Only way you suppose ta lie is if you feel like your life or somebody you love life's in danger. Other than that, I'm gonna always tell the truth, know what I'm sayin. No matter what, ifl don't like you, I'm gonna tell you, ifl feel a certain way about someone that chu know, ifyou don't like it an you wanna whoop my ass anSociety you gonna hafta whoop my ass, but don't think I'm gonna stand up there an let youResearch whoop my ass, becuz we gonna be some fightin mother fuckers, ya know what I'm sayin. You gonna hafta show me that you can whoop my ass, but I'm not gonna sit up there an lie ta you about how I feel about chu. Ifl don't like you, I'm not gonna sit up there an act like I like you cuz somebody else want me to, cuz thas not me. Like in here, theyGang tell you ta respect people, but ta disrespect people, uh uh, ifl don't like you, I'm gonna disrespect you, no matter what. I rather disrespect you in yo face an you know about it, than you leaveHistorical an I whisper an talk about yo behind yo back, cuz that right there is bein a coward in itselfta me. Ifyou ain't man enough ta tell somebody what chu got ta say aboutYouth em in their face, then you ain't no man, you can't consider yourself no man, if you gonna bite yo damn tongue, for another man who breathes the same air as you do. Thas how I look at it, so man, I say what the hell I wanna say, always have, always will. I might die cuz a dat, but oh well, at least I'm gonna die speakin my mind or get killed .. .leavin this world lettin people know, let them remember me as the one who like didn't bite his tongue, said what heMinnesota felt he had ta sayan left it at that. 128.23 KC: IfIMinnesota ran into you in five years, what do you think your life would be like? Q: Hopefully, if I can stick to the goals that I got planned for myself when I get outa here, hopefully, in five years when you see me you'll see a family man. Somebody who'll learn to accept what he done did in his life an move on. Like try ta make a better livin environment foe his family, or his family an his wife, or his girlfriend ifl may have one five years down the line. But, as far as I'm concerned right now when I get outa here, all I'm livin foe is my kids, ya know what I'm sayin. A woman is optional right now, ifI do get to the point where I do have one, hopefully, she'll love me foe who I am an not what I can give her. She gonna be wid me cuz, a my, my character, ya know, she love me foe who I man, cuz I got a good heart.

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Cuz, I believe like I do got a good heart an I mean, I ain't gonna say I'm the most outgoinest person in the world, but if! can do somethin foe you, than I'm gonna do it, ya know what I'm sayin. But, ya know, like I said my main goal is when I get out a here is get a job, a steady job, somethin thas gonna bring me at least, where I'm makin like $7.50, 8 buck a hour, somethin like that. Not no $6.50 or less, not no McDonald's job or nuttin like that. I at least wanna be makin 8, $8 or moe, plus the little money I got comin in from the settlement ya know. Ya know what I'm sayin, get a job, get an apartment, basically get my goals set. When I get outa here I plan on goin an take the main G.E.D. test, cuz I been takin it when I been in here, but I can't take the main test in here, so I gotta go ta (unclear) an take it. So, when I get out a here I plan on finishin that up. KC: Do you want to do any other schooling? Q: I kinda want to, but I'm gonna hafta wait. I'm gonna hafta hold off onProject that til like my kids like start kindergarten or stuff like that. Like I said, right now my main focus is on my kids. KC: Do you have to pay child support for your son that's already born? Q: No, no 130.47 KC: Uh uh. What are you going to do about the smoking? Are you going to continue ... chiefin? Q: I probably will, but probably not as much. I look at it like this,Society if I can manage ta take care a things that need ta be taken of, I can make sureResearch that my bills gettin paid, I got a roof over my head, my family got a roof over their head, ya know what I'm sayin, there's food an stuff in the frigerator an all that other stuff, course I'm gonna continue ta smoke weed or whatever, as long as I feel like, I'm gettin done what needs ta be done. When I feel like I'm not gettin that done, then I'm gonna hafta giveGang that up, ya know what I'm sayin, but until then ... uh uh. KC: Do you have any other friends in town, other than the Unknowns? Q: No Historical KC: Do you see yourself as there will be other people that you will be able to make friends with in this new life that you'reYouth creating for yourself It's going to hard to hang out with them if you have to get up and go to work in the morning. R: Thas true, but, ya know what I'm sayin, hopefully I'm .. .1 wanna get there but I'm not gonna force it. I mean some a the dudes that I hang out with now, like some a the Unkowns, some of em work. Some of em wanna work, they jus ain't made that step yet or that effort an once they finally do that,Minnesota they know jus as well as I know waz goin down when I get outa here. True enough, we still have our weekends, but durin the week, ya know what I'm sayin, in the mornin'sMinnesota they don't. I'm probably gonna be one a them type a people thas goin ta be at work from probably 6:30 in the mornin til like 3:30 in the afternoon or somethin like that, ya know what I'm sayin, cuz I plan on gettin a job where my day is filled an all I got is probably like the rest a my afternoon, til I go ta work the next day. KC: How old were you when you dropped out of school? Q: I don't even know, 15. Like right befoe they made legal age like 18 to dropout, I had jus dropped out a couple years ago. I had dropped out like .... KC: When you still lived in Chicago? Q: Like 10th, 11th grade I dropped outa school.

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KC: Did you go to school much before you left Chicago? Q: Yeah. I was one a them people, ya know what I'm sayin, you .. you can get paid while you in school in Chicago. Thas how it was up there, you can go ta school an still make money. So, big deal, yeah, I go to school. Plus, ya know what I'm sayin, I kept a .. maintained a B, C average ya know what I'm sayin, so I was passin. I jus lost the motivation. It got borin ta me after awhile, it wadn't challengin ta me, so I jus dropped out. Got tired a the same old routine every day for like six months. Ya get tired a doin the same thing, true enough you learn new lessons, but it pretty much be a repeat a what you learned like last week or ya know a couple months when you first started, so, I jus said fuck it man. KC: What do you think school could have done to make it more interesting for you? Q: It coulda like, had like more outside a school projects, ya know what I'm sayin, issues that dealt like with real life. Like as far as like, like environments an stufflikeProject that. They coulda did, like somethin like they could a took the class like, the whole class like to a certain part a the neighborhood, an jus let them sit an jus from a distance, jus see what goes on, ya know what I'm sayin. Do a report or somethin like that, like ya know what I'm sayin, daily livin an stuff like that. Ifthey'd a done somethin like that, I'd a stayed in school, cuz it's so much that goes on in Chicago that you can fill up a whole four years a high school, ya know what I'm sayin. You go ta school every day for four years, cuz there's Societyalways somethin new happenin. Always man, always somethin happenin in Chicago.Research 134.57 KC: What I'm hearing you say is that if school was more practical you would have stayed in school. Q: Yes, ture enough school does get youGang father in life. But some of these people in Rochester, all they know is Rochester. They get a taste of violence every now and then. But in the really really big cities they gonna need moreHistorical than just a smart education to applly in the world. I feel like, I got all the street knowledge to survive in the world. I'm not the smartist person in the world, but I'm notYouth gonna say I'm a dummy. As far as the book sense goes, I fell I know all I need to know as far is like schooling. But I know what I mainly I need to survive in the world, which is the street knowledge which is what you need to survive out here in the world when you get to cities like LA and Minneapolis. End of tape 135.5 Minnesota Minnesota