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Vol. 596 Wednesday, No. 4 2 February 2005 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 2 February 2005. Leaders’ Questions ………………………………1337 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach …………………………………1346 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ………………1360 Order of Business ………………………………1361 European Council Meetings: Statements ………………………1365 Disability Bill 2004: Second Stage (resumed) ………………………1387 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Foreign Affairs Priority Questions ……………………………1390 Other Questions ……………………………1403 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1418 Disability Bill 2004: Second Stage (resumed) ………………………1418 Agri-food Sector: Motion (resumed) …………………………1468 Adjournment Debate Job Losses …………………………………1499 Rail Network ………………………………1502 Community Development……………………………1505 Waste Disposal ………………………………1508 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1513 1337 1338 DA´ IL E´ IREANN Provisional IRA and would have had the sanction of the army council and be known to the political ———— leadership. That was made clear without equivo- cation and unambiguously. De´ Ce´adaoin, 2 Feabhra 2005. Wednesday, 2 February 2005. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: Did they present you with evidence? ———— Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Give back the money. Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m. Mr. O’Dea: Where is Deputy O´ Snodaigh this morning? ———— An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach without Paidir. interruption. Prayer. The Taoiseach: The position is clear. Collec- ———— tively, the two Governments and all the parties did an enormous amount of work last year and the previous year. That is set out in the joint dec- Leaders’ Questions. laration and in the working documents that were Mr. Kenny: Will the Taoiseach report to the presented on 8 December in a complete position. House on his meeting with the British Prime If we get a definitive answer from Sinn Fe´in, for Minister yesterday and the briefing both Prime which both of us have asked, about how to deal Ministers were given by the Garda Commissioner with decommissioning and, as Deputy Kenny and the Chief Constable of the PSNI? Were the said, if we can get the progress that we were close Taoiseach and the Prime Minister Blair given to getting on 8 December, it would be helpful to new information which further confirmed their the process now and into the future. The second stated views that the Northern Bank robbery was issue is an end to paramilitarism and the related carried out by the Provisional IRA with the issues of criminality. That is the position. knowledge of the leadership of Sinn Fe´in? Can As we both said yesterday, in a strange way the Taoiseach confirm that both Governments the position is clear now. All the work on various are more clear in their understanding that such aspects of equality, human rights, demilitarisation was the case? In particular, will the Taoiseach and other important issues is documented and confirm that, following the briefings he was given listed and the position we are at is now in the yesterday, it is now apparently obvious that this public domain. There are no secrets about it; bank robbery was being planned over a period of everybody knows it. We can build on those if we two years and that the Sinn Fe´in leadership was get a clear position, which means a road that well aware of a so-called fund raising spectacular brings us to the end of criminality, decom- being prepared? missioning and paramilitarism. We have In view of the huge damage caused to the addressed those issues as well. It is really a ques- Good Friday Agreement and the break down of tion of whether people are prepared to do that or negotiations, will the Taoiseach repeat that the not. I hope people are reflecting on that. onus is on the republican movement to show It is worth putting it on record again that the clearly that it is committed to democratic politics reason this is so important is that there is no and the path of peace and that a gesture of credi- possibility of getting any trust and confidence bility which could be made by the IRA and the back with the parties if we cannot answer those republican movement is the unilateral decom- questions. This is a difficult enough year anyway missioning of arms that will never be used and because of the local elections in the North, the which have become the subject of barter in the general election in the UK and the UK having negotiations? Does the Taoiseach believe they the presidency of the G8 and the EU Presidency. could do this as a measure of credibility and to If we do not get clear positions on these issues, show that they are serious about getting back to therefore, there is no possibility of us being able a position where negotiations towards a con- to build up trust and confidence over the months clusion of the peace process can begin again? ahead. I have now talked to all of the parties. I had spoken to some of them before reporting to The Taoiseach: I will report briefly on yester- the House last week. I have spoken to all of them day’s meeting. The meeting was divided into two now and that is the position of all parties. It is not sections. One was a briefing by Commissioner a question of the Government being able to move Conroy on his assessment, with Hugh Orde, Chief forward. There is no possibility of getting any- Constable of the PSNI. Both confirmed their where until we get answers to those questions. positions, that is, Hugh Orde’s public statement and the advice given to us by Commissioner Con- Mr. Kenny: Based on the information supplied roy. They believe that a number of operations by the Taoiseach and on his words, it is obvious which took place during 2004, not just the that Sinn Fe´in has been negotiating with the Irish Northern Bank robbery, were the work of the and British Governments over a period of time in 1339 Leaders’ 2 February 2005. Questions 1340 [Mr. Kenny.] I put on the three areas of decommissioning, par- very bad faith. Sinn Fe´in has clearly destroyed the amilitarism and criminality, we are not going to level of trust by serious breaches of faith. get anywhere. Everybody knows that. We have to get an answer on those issues. It is not a question Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: That is totally untrue. of it all happening in negotiations, as Deputy Kenny knows, in December. While it was not all An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy O´ Caola´in, it is going to happen overnight, at least there was a Deputy Kenny’s question. clear plan of how it was going to happen. We are talking about whether that is possible. Mr. Kenny: It shows the level of folly of the I accept what Deputy Kenny said about what Taoiseach’s Government in putting on the table was going on while we were in the negotiations. the issue of the early release of the killers of There is no doubt that the planning and operation Detective Garda McCabe. The Taoiseach con- of these issues were taking place. I heard yester- firmed last week that the matter had been taken day for the first time face to face from Hugh off the table. In the context of his comments Orde, the head of the PSNI, and from the Garda about the re-commencement of negotiations, is Commissioner that the Dunmurry, macro and the Taoiseach saying there will be no further cigarette issues arose last year. There was no negotiations with Sinn Fe´in until such time as going around the houses in the conversations criminality is ended or a statement of intent to given their security briefings. Obviously, we were end criminality is made by that party and the Pro- in negotiations then. Having said that, many of visional IRA? At issue is an end to smuggling of the issues over the years were taken on trust. All whiskey, knee-capping, punishment beatings, prisoners were allowed out at different times and diesel laundering, confiscation of cigarettes, we did all sorts of things on that basis. Many smuggling of vodka, bank robberies and all the times one was ambiguous to try to make progress, other elements of racketeering and criminality as we both said yesterday and on previous which abound and are driven by the Provisional occasions. IRA with, as the Taoiseach says, the knowledge That was then and this is now. Things move on. of the leadership of Sinn Fe´in. We are trying to establish in Northern Ireland the Is the Taoiseach saying there will be no more Assembly for which people voted and the Execu- negotiations with Sinn Fe´in until it states that tive to get the operation of the administration criminality is at an end or we see it is at an end there working on a cross-party basis. We cannot or is he just waiting for a statement of intent? do that unless we end these issues. Quite frankly, When one follows the line of breaches of trust if we had succeeded in concluding these matters and confidence in the way Sinn Fe´in has nego- on 8 December, we would have been going tiated to date, it strikes me as remarkable that through the period of preparation when events in 2002, as the Special Criminal Court was told would have blown the roof off our houses. There yesterday, election posters stating “Sinn Fe´in, No. is no doubt that we were not going to get any- 1O´ Snodaigh” were found along with stun guns where as happened a few years ago when other and CS gas in the boot of a car.