Thursday Volume 531 14 July 2011 No. 188

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 14 July 2011

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 447 14 JULY 2011 448

students, but what about the rest? Most of the vice- House of Commons chancellors I talk to are very unhappy about the destabilisation of the sector and cannot see their way Thursday 14 July 2011 forward. Mr Willetts: The hon. Gentleman does higher The House met at half-past Ten o’clock education a great disservice. In my experience, vice- chancellors are looking forward to the challenge of attracting students and know that one in four students PRAYERS will be bringing their money to the university that they choose, as we push back the quotas. They also see that in our White Paper we envisage universities having [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] 10% more cash coming to them in four years’ time than they have now. BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS Mr Speaker: May I just remind the House that the TRANSPORT FOR LONDON (SUPPLEMENTAL TOLL question is specifically about the Open university? I PROVISIONS)[LORDS] know that that is what the hon. Gentleman on the Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Opposition Front Bench will be asking his question time. about. Hon. Members: Object. Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): I Bill to be read a Second time on Wednesday 7 September. am always grateful for your helpful advice, Mr Speaker. As the Minister reflects on his important meeting with the vice-chancellor of the Open university this Oral Answers to Questions week and as he worries, too, about the number of would-be students set to be turned away from university this summer on his watch, can he tell the House which of the following he is most proud of? Is it the decisions BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS that have already been taken by the Government to axe 24,000 student places? Is it his plan to axe another 20,000 places at quality universities in order to fund an The Secretary of State was asked— auction to the lowest bidder? Or is it his claim that universities charging the full £9,000 would be the exception? Open University Mr Willetts: The hon. Gentleman is in danger of 1. Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): When becoming the mad axeman. There are no 24,000 places he next plans to meet the vice-chancellor of the Open being axed—he has invented that figure. What we have university. [66016] been able to do, even in tough times and even when we are reducing spending across the board, is broadly The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David maintain the number of student places. Willetts): I meet representatives of the Open university regularly. My most recent meeting, covering a range of Green Investment issues, took place earlier this week. The Open university has, of course, particularly welcomed the extension of loans to part-time students, which will benefit up to 2. Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): What 175,000 students overall, including many from the Open assessment he has made of the effects on growth of university. green investment; and if he will make a statement. [66017] Iain Stewart: Some 20% of the newest undergraduates at the Open university come from the 25% most 4. Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): What disadvantaged communities in the country. Does my assessment he has made of the effects on growth of right hon. Friend agree that the widening participation green investment; and if he will make a statement. allocation is crucial to delivering results and will be [66019] essential to widening access in the future? The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Mr Willetts: Yes. My hon. Friend is referring to Skills (Vince Cable): In the transformation to a green something that, in many ways, is the equivalent of the economy, low-carbon industries will grow, while other pupil premium in schools. The Higher Education Funding sectors will face significant challenges from increased Council for England is now consulting on how best to energy prices. There could be significant transitional deliver the money in future, but we have made it clear costs in the near term, but those could be manageable, that it is very important to reflect the additional costs with targeted Government action. We have committed that under-represented groups face. to announcing in the autumn a package of measures to reduce the impact of Government policy on electricity Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Is costs for energy-intensive manufacturers whose international the Open university the only happy university at the competitiveness is most affected by our energy and moment? I note the 10% increase in the number of its climate change policies. 449 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 450

Anas Sarwar: Ernst and Young’s latest survey found Regulation (EU Directives) that only 8% of renewable energy professionals said that they were optimistic that the Government would 3. Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): What establish the conditions for success in the next 12 months progress he has made on reducing regulatory burdens and that only 14% of those surveyed expected significant on business arising from EU directives. [66018] growth and new jobs, which is a decrease from last November’s figure of 65%. Is it not clear that the Government are undermining confidence in growth in The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, this important sector and are costing real jobs at a Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): I am pleased difficult time for our economy? to have this opportunity to remind the House of our recent successes. The recent political agreement to exempt micro-enterprises from onerous accounting and financial Vince Cable: The renewable energy sector will, of reporting obligations should save British companies course, be given confidence and clarity as a result of the between £150 million and £300 million a year. Thanks electricity market review, which my colleague the Secretary to the UK’s persistent efforts, a further commitment of State for Energy and Climate Change launched this from the Commission to introduce proposals to exempt week, and it will be given further confidence by the micros from new and existing legislation was also secured investments of the green investment bank, which will at the European Council in June. take shape in the coming months. Mr Laurence Robertson: I thank the Minister for that Paul Flynn: Why have the Government inexplicably response. Is he aware of the EU waste electrical and cut the investment in tidal power by 50%, given that the electronic equipment directive, which requires all showers immense power of the tide in my constituency is the that are not fitted to be registered through a costly second greatest in the world? We have this vast resource, system, whereas those which are considered to be fitted with huge potential. It is green and inexhaustible, yet need not be registered? There is a great debate about the Government refuse to invest in it. Should they not what constitutes a fitted shower. Such nonsense is not give the powers to the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish helping British business or jobs. Is that really why we Parliament, which thoroughly understand the potential put so much money into the EU? of tidal power? Mr Davey: I am delighted to be able to tell the House Vince Cable: Tidal power may well have an important that I am now aware of that issue, because I have role to play in the long-term development of renewables answered the hon. Gentleman’s written question on it. and that is why it is one of the components of the new He is right that the scope of the EU waste electrical and technology innovation centre that will focus on renewable electronic equipment directive has been problematic energy. since its adoption at the end of 2002. For example, there is no reference in the directive to exemption for fixed Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): To unlock the installations, but the European Commission’s guidance full growth potential of the green investment bank, the does allow for one in its interpretation of article 2(1). UK will need to secure state aid approval. What progress European negotiations on a recast of the regional directive is the Secretary of State’s Department making to obtain are under way and we hope for greater clarity on that that approval and to ensure that the legislation is introduced and other scope issues once a new directive is agreed. as soon as possible? Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) Vince Cable: The proposals are at such a stage that (Con): I thank my hon. Friend for his answer, but will they are being referred to the European Union for state he also assure me that he will do all he can to reduce any aid approval. Legislation will follow, but in the meantime home-grown regulatory burden that might crop up, the Department will be able to make available loans and especially for small and micro-businesses? other forms of investment under the green investment bank, as we originally envisaged. Mr Davey: My hon. Friend will be delighted to know that in the Chancellor’s Budget we announced a three-year Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): Clear regulatory frameworks moratorium on regulations for micros. We have also set are essential to facilitate green investment. The construction up the red tape challenge. We are dealing not just with industry, which is flat on its back at the moment because future regulation but with the stock of regulation, an of the Government’s policy, is desperate to take forward exercise that was long overdue. the green deal but it does not know the rules of the game. When will it have some clarity from the Government Engineering to facilitate investment and build jobs and growth?

Vince Cable: The answer to that question will be 5. Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): What steps he has included in the green economy road map that will be taken to support the engineering industry; and if he announced at the end of this month. It involves a will make a statement. [66020] process of collaboration across Government by my Department, the Department of Energy and Climate The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Change and the Department for Environment, Food and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The Government are actively and Rural Affairs in discussion with business and trade supporting engineering and manufacturing by boosting unions that will provide a consensus framework within innovation, increasing business investment, improving which such decisions can be pursued. skills and encouraging exports. 451 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 452

Mr Spellar: I thank the Minister for the departmental be able to lead on enterprise zones, lead on the regional mission statement, but the reality is that the Thameslink growth fund and make sure that we strip away some of contract is being given to Siemens without even getting the local regulatory problems on the ground, which I the company to build in the UK. The Minister cannot am afraid the Labour party did nothing about. hide behind EU rules, because the French buy only from France and the Germans buy only from Germany— Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): and the last time I looked they were in the EU. Will he As LEPs are business-driven, they could have businesses stand up for British industry at last, meet the Transport working with local authorities and local education providers Secretary before the contract is signed and ensure to provide a much better and more localised match of that we keep train building in the UK at its historic skills needs and skills provision. Can the Minister say home in Derby? how many LEPs are taking that responsibility on and whether any examples of best practice will be rolled out Mr Prisk: We are concerned for those workers in with other LEPs? Derby and that is why we have already taken prompt action. I welcome the support of local Members, but I Mr Prisk: It is encouraging that almost all the LEPs say to the right hon. Gentleman that the contract’s that I have visited have demonstrated that they are tendering rules were set in 2008 and you were responsible involving FE colleges in their programmes. The hon. as a party for the first two years of the contract. I also Gentleman is right that that is crucial. They are ideally remind the right hon. Gentleman that 1.7 million jobs suited to get FE colleges producing what local businesses were lost in manufacturing under the previous Labour need; that is one of the crucial projects that at least half Government. a dozen of them have already begun. Mr Speaker: Order. I remind the Minister that I was not responsible for any such contract at all. I am entirely Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): The pan-Humber innocent in the matter. local enterprise partnership is now up and running and it has recently put in a bid for a local enterprise zone Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con): In across the Humber, which will be based around the South Staffordshire in the past year we have had renewables sector. As a result, the area covered by that considerable success in attracting engineering manufacturing potential enterprise zone is quite large. Can the Minister jobs, but I am constantly being told that we do not have give an assurance that its size—and the need for it to be enough engineering graduates coming out of colleges of that size given that it will be structured around the and universities after 13 years of Labour government. renewable energy industry—will be taken into account? What are we doing to rectify that? Mr Prisk: Absolutely; the key issue is the added Mr Prisk: Absolutely right—what we, rather than value. The case will be judged on such merit and we will yourself, Mr Speaker, are doing about it is making sure not seek to preclude anything on, perhaps, spurious that we have apprenticeships in place and that we put grounds. vocational education, which was neglected by the Labour party, back on a proper footing. We are also making Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): sure that people are able to transfer between engineering According to recent OECD research, the single most firms. There is good news to be told. important factor in regional growth is innovation, but LEPs do not even have responsibility for that, let alone Local Enterprise Partnerships any money, and it is not even mentioned in the regional growth fund criteria. The £440 million that the 6. Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): What progress he regional development agencies invested annually in regional has made on local enterprise partnerships; and if he innovation is gone, the Technology Strategy Board’s will make a statement. [66021] new strategy makes no reference to it and in any case it still does not have a budget for next year. I know that The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation the Secretary of State enjoys chaotic Maoism, but does and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): Both the number and regional growth not merit a more coherent approach? activity of local enterprise partnerships is continuing to rise. Dorset is the latest to be cleared, bringing the total Mr Prisk: The hon. Lady is ignoring the fact that we to 36—or 97% of the country. Of those, 18 now have have made sure that the science budget is retained and full board recognition and have begun their work. strengthened, and that we are putting £200 million into technology and innovation centres. When we look at Tony Baldry: I am sorry to ask my hon. Friend what I individual schemes and the regional growth fund, we suspect will be perceived as an unhelpful question, but see that £2 million is being put into 3D printing, which local enterprise partnerships are going to have to raise is a vital technology for this country—we lead on it and their game seriously if they are to have any traction or we are investing in it. impact. I am sorry to have to report to him that, so far, they seem to have no traction or impact in my area of Azerbaijan (Investment) the country.

Mr Prisk: I am disappointed by my hon. Friend’s 7. Mr Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) comments. I have visited 25 of the 36 LEPs and they are (Con): How much outward investment to Azerbaijan already setting up boards to make sure that they are was supported by his Department in (a) 2009-10 and ready to involve small businesses. Now they are going to (b) 2010-11. [R] [66022] 453 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 454

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Mr Prisk: Indeed; we have trebled the amount that Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): I would like the Labour party originally proposed to £3 billion. So, to thank my hon. Friend for the work he is doing as yes, additional funds are very much in place. chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on Azerbaijan to develop the relationship between our two Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): Does my hon. countries. I am pleased to say that more than 100 exporting Friend agree that, ideally, the home of the green investment and investing companies have been assisted in Azerbaijan bank will have a mix of commercial and ethical banking, through UK Trade & Investment in the past two financial a strong network of professional services firms, green years alone. non-governmental organisations, charities and sustainable businesses? That strongly suggests that the city of Bristol Mr Field: I thank the Minister for his answer. As he is the ideal home for the green investment bank. will be well aware, over those past two years there has been compound double-digit growth in Azerbaijan. Is Mr Prisk: We duly note that excellent representation. he convinced that his Department is doing enough in two specific areas—the fledgling financial services industry Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): Can the Minister in Azerbaijan and infrastructure investment, on which identify the key criteria in the selection process for the our companies could add a lot in that part of the world? green investment bank location?

Mr Davey: Across the Government, our new approach Mr Prisk: I have just set out that, in fact, the process to commercial diplomacy is working in all those areas. is under way for the rules and criteria. The location, My right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe visited which is obviously the issue at hand, is one that we will Baku last year and took with him a number of companies bear in mind when we see the business cases. The key involved in the infrastructure project. I am sure that my issue is what will deliver the best result for the bank hon. Friend will agree that the British music industry itself. will take all the possible opportunities presented by the Eurovision song contest being held in Azerbaijan next Apprenticeships year, and that they are not “Running Scared”. 9. Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): How many people Green Investment Bank in (a) Crawley constituency, (b) the south-east and (c) England have started an apprenticeship in 2011. [66024] 8. David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Which locations he is considering for the headquarters of the The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and green investment bank. [66023] Skills (Vince Cable): In the first three quarters of this academic year, 550 apprenticeships were started in the The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Crawley constituency, 41,890 started in the south-east and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): Ministers will consider all region and 326,700 in England. Overall, that is 114,000 submitted business cases for a potential location for the more than last year—more than a 50% increase. By the green investment bank. To date, London, Edinburgh end of this spending review, there will be funding for and Bristol have made representations. However, others 250,000 more adult apprenticeships than were planned might wish to do so, and once state aid approval is by the previous Government. granted, Ministers will choose a location that best enables the bank to fulfil its mission. Henry Smith: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer. Will he join me in congratulating Central David Mowat: I thank the Minister for that reply. Sussex college in my constituency on administering When the Secretary of State announced the bank in 900 apprenticeship places and Virgin Atlantic Airways May, it was stated that there was a shortlist of the three on creating 42 highly skilled engineering apprenticeship locations that have been mentioned, two of which are places in my constituency? Does that not prove that capital cities. Further to the reply today, can the Minister further education and the commercial sector working confirm that the selection process will be based on together can improve the offer for apprenticeships? rigorous and transparent criteria and that other towns and cities will be judged on their merits? Vince Cable: Yes indeed; it does exactly that. My hon. Friend’s constituency can demonstrate that this is a real Mr Prisk: Absolutely—those three are merely early success story. There has been a 62% increase in such applicants, not a shortlist. All proposals will be considered places in Crawley over the past year. I certainly welcome on a fair and open basis. the news from Virgin Atlantic Airways about engineering apprenticeships. We have had massive shortages in this country at intermediate level and in graduate and Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ postgraduate engineers, and we really now must buckle Co-op): I am sure that the Minister will understand the down to increasing the supply in this and other ways. strong case for the bank to be based in Edinburgh, but can he confirm that the bank will not end up just taking up the cuts made elsewhere in Government expenditure? Space Sector I was concerned by the earlier suggestion that wave power could be funded by the green investment bank. I 10. Mr Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): What his hope that the bank will provide new, additional funding policy is on future space travel and exploration; and if for greener industries and not just pick up slack elsewhere. he will make a statement. [66025] 455 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 456

The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David and does not result in excessive bureaucracy. The best Willetts): My hon. Friend’s question is very topical: this evidence that apprenticeships give value for money is in morning, a statue of Yuri Gagarin is being unveiled just the results. Typically, employers get payback in three a few hundred yards from here. It commemorates the years. An intermediate level of skill, level 2, results in, I first human space flight 50 years ago. I am sure that think, £73,000 more over a lifetime. A level 3 qualification Members on both sides of the House will wish to send produces £105,000 added income over a lifetime, and their best wishes to Yuri Gagarin’s daughter, whom I the Government get £40 back for every £1 that they will meet later today. spend on apprenticeships. In the growth review, we set out our support for innovative forms of space travel, such as Virgin Galactic, Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): On that involve British entrepreneurs and British inventors. the future of apprentices, has the Secretary of State yet had a chance to look at the new report from the Mr Brine: I thank the Minister for that. He will all-party parliamentary motor group about an industry remember the exciting HOTOL—horizontal take-off that supports 700,000 jobs and contributes £1 billion and landing—project in the 1980s, which certainly put a towards research and development? One of the conclusions spring in the step of the British space industry. The of the report, to which Ministers in the Department single-stage-to-orbit Skylon programme looks equally have contributed through discussion, is about the skills promising today. I hear what the Minister says—and I gap in the automotive industry. The Secretary of State send my best wishes, too—but I wonder what role an has referred to the skills gap in engineering before; what ambitious Government see for the UK in future human practical steps can he take to ensure that the issue is space travel. addressed?

Mr Willetts: I have visited the company to which my Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is right in the hon. Friend refers, and he mentions an excellent British premise of his question; the automotive industry is technology that is securing a lot of private backing. The enormously important. As he knows, some very welcome future of space travel rests much more with commercial investment is taking place in the west midlands, the businesses now, but I look forward to the day when north-east, Luton and elsewhere. Indeed, I have been to Major Tim Peake, the British astronaut, makes it into Japan, Detroit and elsewhere to encourage that investment. space; I regularly raise the issue of that programme with He is right also that potential investors stress the need the head of the European Space Agency. for skills. A great deal of investment is now taking place; specifically, there are the 10,000 places for advanced Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): Would the apprenticeships, which will be directed specifically to Minister expand on how the UK might increase its small and medium-sized enterprises in the supply chain participation in the European space business development of industries such as the vehicle industry. plans? Employment Law Mr Willetts: We have specifically identified the space sector in the growth review, and we are committed to a 12. Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): What major role for British business in that. Indeed, only last progress his Department has made on its employment week we celebrated a £110 million satellite order. law review. [66028]

Apprenticeships The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): As part of the 11. Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): How many review, we have consulted on employment tribunals and people in (a) Stafford constituency, (b) the west unfair dismissal, launched the employer’s charter, midlands and (c) England have started an commissioned reviews of sickness absence and of apprenticeship in 2011. [66027] compliance and enforcement regimes, repealed the default retirement age, introduced a moratorium for micro- The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and businesses and start-ups, and announced that we will Skills (Vince Cable): In the first three quarters of this not proceed with the dual discrimination provision in academic year, there have been 570 apprenticeships the Equality Act 2010. We have announced future work started in the Stafford constituency, 38,350 started in priorities for the review, and the red tape challenge will the west midlands, and 326,700 started in England. also consider cross-Government employment-related regulations. Jeremy Lefroy: I thank the Secretary of State for his response, and I congratulate him, and the Minister for Julian Smith: I thank the Minister for that answer. I Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, who am really worried about the lack of engagement with is not in his place, on their achievements in delivering the review by other Departments. Does he agree that such strong growth in apprenticeships. Quality is also the Department for Work and Pensions and the Home important. Will the Secretary of State share with the Office also impose significant burdens on employers? House the steps that his Department will take to monitor May I encourage the Minister to throw his weight the quality of apprenticeships, and the career progression around with those other Departments? We have an of apprentices once they complete them? urgent need for jobs.

Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right Mr Davey: I assure my hon. Friend that all Departments that quality is important as well as quantity, but it is with responsibility for employment-related legislation important that the quality assurance is proportionate are contributing to the review; it is important that they 457 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 458 should, if the review is to have a real impact on burdens advantages, for young people, who see benefits for their on business. I will talk to colleagues in other Departments own careers, and for the Government, who have prioritised to ensure that they are taking a clear role in it, as I am them and seen the results. sure that they will. Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): Does the Secretary Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Given that the well of State welcome the apprenticeship initiative led by respected Chartered Institute of Personnel and Johnson Matthey and announced this week in my Development considers that the Government are constituency of 100 days for 100 new apprenticeships, “justified in seeking to reform procedures to resolve workplace the launch of which I attended, and will he recommend disputes”, it to other Members as a course of action to provide but suggests that support for the local economy and local new “the decision to increase the qualifying period for rights against apprenticeships? unfair dismissal is questionable” and could be Vince Cable: I would strongly recommend it. I believe “potentially harmful to the long-term performance of the UK that 24 such schemes have already been launched and economy”, more than 5,000 apprenticeships have been generated in will the Government stop using a tax on employment that way. I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his role rights as a pathetic and unproven substitute for any real in promoting it in his constituency and compliment the growth strategy and drop plans to increase from one to company, whose headquarters in Royston I visited a two years the qualifying time for unfair dismissal? few weeks ago. It is a superb and innovative British manufacturing company that is exporting most of its Mr Davey: The hon. Lady is right to quote the production and investing in skills for the long term. Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development on this issue, because it supports much of the coalition Government’s better regulation agenda in this area. She Women (Corporate Boards) will know that the unfair dismissal period is out to consultation. A number of responses are very much in 14. Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): What recent favour of the proposal, but she would not expect me to progress his Department has made on implementing prejudge the consultation today. the recommendations of the report of Lord Davies on female representation on corporate boards. [66030] Apprenticeships

13. Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): How The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and many people in (a) Mid Bedfordshire constituency, (b) Skills (Vince Cable): Lord Davies’s report rightly challenges the south-east midlands and (c) England have started directors and investors to increase the number of women on boards. The report is already having an impact on an apprenticeship in 2011. [66029] FTSE 100 companies; some 21% of new board members The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and appointed since February are women, up from 13% last Skills (Vince Cable): I am beginning to appreciate that year, but there is scope to do more. I fully support this there is a lot of heavy lifting involved in being acting initiative and will shortly consult on requiring quoted Minister responsible for skills. companies to publish the proportion of female directors and senior executives in their organisations. In the first three quarters of this academic year, 420 apprenticeships have been started in the Mid Bedfordshire constituency. It is not possible to quantify the number Claire Perry: I thank my right hon. Friend for that of apprenticeships started in the south-east midlands encouraging reply. I am sure that he is very aware of the region, but 28,230 have been started in the east of large body of evidence, including Lord Davies’s report, England. that associates a higher number of women on corporate boards with higher stock price performance and corporate Nadine Dorries: In 2013, Centre Parcs will be opening returns. If that is right for the private sector, it should be in my constituency, and have already turned the first right for the public sector. What is he doing to encourage sod of earth. It will need a wide variety of employees, the number of women in financial regulation posts in from accountants, HR professionals and medical staff particular, and could we have a female head of the to caterers, landscape gardeners and beauticians, all of green investment bank? whom require skills. What will the Government do further to relieve the burden on employers who wish to Vince Cable: The starting point of the hon. Lady’s take on apprentices, so that we can continue with the question is absolutely right, and I congratulate her on impressive trend that we have started already? the effective pressure she brings to bear on the issue. Her central point is that having more women on boards Vince Cable: To reduce what is unfortunately the has nothing to do with political correctness; it is about substantial amount of bureaucracy in this area, we are sensible economics, good business and tapping into the greatly simplifying the number of funding channels and potential that women can bring. The force of her argument the number of institutions and introducing outcome-based is reinforced by the statement made at the beginning of payments for large employers that are training providers. the week by leading institutional investors that they will The point behind the hon. Lady’s question is that punish companies that do not make progress in this apprenticeships and vocational training are a great success area. I will certainly receive her CV for the green investment story for employers, who are beginning to see their real bank if that is what she has in mind. 459 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 460

Construction Industry Siemens one? That is directly within his responsibilities, and I think that the package is now being negotiated. It 15. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): would be something that the banks could do, for once, What recent assessment he has made of the state of the to back British industry instead of filling their own construction industry. [66031] pockets.

The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation Vince Cable: The Minister of State, my hon. Friend and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): For three years now, the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), has construction has faced very tough times after one of the already explained the background to the Bombardier sharpest recessions ever, but there are encouraging signs. contract. It was confined to very narrow tendering Output in May rose by 0.4%, with increases in new terms of reference that, in the circumstances, we could work for most of the construction subsectors. We have not avoid, but the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to published the national infrastructure plan, for the first focus on how public procurement can be used, within time in this country, with £200 billion of investment European rules, to support British industry. I have over the next five years. taken an initiative with the Secretary of State for Transport to try to make sure that, in future, tenders do reflect that priority. Diana Johnson: The purchasing managers index for construction shows that in June employment in the UK Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): Will the construction industry fell at its fastest rate since January’s Secretary of State meet me and members of the Derby VAT rise, and cuts in social housing investment, particularly and Derbyshire Rail Forum to talk about how we can in areas such as mine in Hull, are not helping. Would help those who are made redundant from Bombardier, not a temporary VAT cut help to protect these skilled how Bombardier can move forward and get further construction jobs at this difficult time? contracts, and how we can make sure that procurement rules benefit the people of this country as well as those Mr Prisk: I am fascinated to see this re-presented to abroad? the House. As I recall, when the opportunity came for Labour Members to vote on it, they ducked it—they Vince Cable: The hon. Lady is absolutely right about abstained. It is a shame that they do not have the the procurement rules. As I said, we are taking an courage of their convictions. initiative to try to address an anomaly whereby Britain Manufacturing appears to be uniquely open in relation to other European countries. Regarding the work force who are, sadly, affected by these redundancies, I have already announced 16. Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): the launching of a taskforce in Derby led by a former What steps he is taking to promote manufacturing. senior executive of Rolls-Royce to try to mobilise assistance. [66032] Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): At The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and the previous Business, Innovation and Skills questions, Skills (Vince Cable): Recent initiatives include a high-value the House united to welcome the confidence shown by manufacturing, technology and innovation centre, Japanese, German and Indian companies in UK and a financial commitment that by the end of this manufacturing through their investment in Nissan, BMW spending review there will be funding for 250,000 more and Jaguar Land Rover, so is it not a tragedy that in the adult apprenticeships across all sectors than were planned past few weeks this British Government have put their by the previous Government, including 10,000 higher confidence in German manufacturing to provide our apprenticeships. We have also launched the “see inside Thameslink trains? Will the Minister confirm Network manufacturing” initiative to promote and showcase Rail’s estimate that in addition to Crossrail, between manufacturing careers to young people. 12% and 25% of the 12,000 trains in Britain will need replacing over the next 10 years? What is the Secretary Chris White: Given the success of the “Made By of State doing to ensure that there is a UK manufacturer Britain” exhibition last week, will the Secretary of State capable of designing, building and winning orders for join me in congratulating the businesses showcased at those trains? the event and give an assurance that the Government will continue to support such initiatives in the years Vince Cable: I am surprised that the shadow Secretary ahead? of State keeps returning to this theme. I have to repeat the point that my colleague, the Secretary of State for Vince Cable: Yes, it is a brilliantly successful initiative. Transport, inherited a tendering process defined in law, I congratulate the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member which, if abused, is open to judicial review and which for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) on the efforts that made it absolutely imperative for him to conduct the they put into developing it, and all the hon. Members order in the way he did. If it had been cast differently, who have contributed—50 so far, I think, and I hope there could have been a different outcome. We must others will do so. We shall have a great virtual exhibition learn from that experience. The shadow Secretary of next year for the Olympics. State is absolutely right that it is in the British national interest that we have a capacity to produce locomotive Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): equipment in this country. There will of course be a Is the Minister aware that one of the most useful things significant increase in that capacity in the north-east he could do to promote British manufacturing would be with the Hitachi project, but we must also ensure that to get the banks together to come up with a financing future tenders for the contracts that he describes are package for the Bombardier contract that matched the properly constructed, which they were not in 2008. 461 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 462

Mr Denham: That was not a strategy for the future of The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation the UK rail manufacturing industry. Does the Secretary and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): Ministers and officials of State not know that the factory in the north-east is regularly consult their equivalents in Northern Ireland. there purely and simply because Labour Ministers were Their discussions include promoting growth and the prepared to challenge a procurement process and get importance of reducing regulation, including its the right deal for UK manufacturing? Will he confirm enforcement. that the Department for Transport could have run a separate funding competition? Will he confirm that Mr Dodds: Will the Minister undertake to intensify Siemens still does not have a proven energy efficient efforts to discuss how regulation that affects Northern bogie system for the new trains, while Bombardier does? Ireland but is not in the remit and purview of the Is it not the truth that these and other issues could have Northern Ireland Executive, including European regulation, been used to get the best deal for UK manufacturing? may be reduced or diminished to promote growth in an Does he realise that it is not good enough to just blame area that is lagging behind other parts of the United the last lot and do nothing when it is his responsibility Kingdom? to ensure that we have a UK rail manufacturing industry Mr Prisk: It is a priority to ensure that the red tape to win orders? that the right hon. Gentleman talks about, which holds back business in Northern Ireland and elsewhere, is Vince Cable rose— dealt with. That is one of the reasons we are ending gold-plating across the UK, including in Northern Ireland. Mr Speaker: Order. I know that the Secretary of I very much welcome positive ideas that come from the State will provide a single and pithy reply to those four Northern Ireland Executive. questions. Regional Growth Fund Vince Cable: The shadow Secretary of State knows perfectly well that the decision to reopen the contract in 19. Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): What the relation to Hitachi was not about the tender but about outcomes were of the second round of applications to the whole project. We cannot do that in the case of the regional growth fund; and if he will make a Thameslink—a project that was already 10 years late. statement. [66035] Local Enterprise Partnerships The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Vince Cable): Bidding for round two of the fund 17. Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) closed on Friday 1 July and we were pleased with the (Lab): What assessment he has made of the potential positive response. There appear to have been just over role of further education colleges in the work of local 500 applications for round two, with a total ask of enterprise partnerships. [66033] £3 billion. We are currently processing the detail of the bids and will release summary information on the bids The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation later in the month. and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I am pleased to report that further education colleges are already playing a role Tony Lloyd: Given that the Secretary of State is not with local enterprise partnerships in the north-east and yet in a position to give a full account of the regional elsewhere. In Yorkshire, the Leeds city region held its growth fund, will he give a commitment that investment first skills conference with the West Yorkshire consortium in basic science and engineering, and research thereon, of colleges and it is now setting up its own skills will be at the forefront of the regional growth strategy? network. That is one of several examples. In particular, will he break the establishment view that only the triangle of London, Oxford and Cambridge Catherine McKinnell: I am sure that the Minister will should get that investment, so that other parts of the agree that for FE colleges to contribute to local economic country can benefit? growth, their work forces are key. Has he engaged with Vince Cable: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right Newcastle college about its plans to make 180 staff that there has to be regional rebalancing of the economy, redundant and to cut the pay of some existing staff by and that manufacturing and associated industries are at up to £10,000 a year? Given that that is driven in part by the core of any revival. It happens that the share of a combination of funding cuts and Government priorities, manufacturing is particularly high in areas such as the is this not a worrying trend for the future of FE? north-east, so they will benefit from a manufacturing recovery. I remind him that in the first round of the Mr Prisk: The hon. Lady paints a very negative regional growth fund, there were nine successful bids in picture. When I talk to local FE colleges, they say that the north-west, generating about 7,500 jobs, including they are delighted that we are freeing them from red at Bruntwood in Manchester, which I think is in his tape and that they can respond to local businesses. Of constituency but is certainly in the city. course they would like additional funds, but we all know why there is no additional money any more. Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): Will the Secretary of State ensure that in the next round of the regional Regulation and Growth (Northern Ireland) growth fund, the Government take into account the national benefit of regional growth, particularly in respect 18. Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): What of the Goonhilly earth station application, which will recent discussions he has had with the Northern provide the opportunity of radio astronomy for the Ireland Executive on reducing regulation and country as a whole? It is an issue not just of regional promoting growth. [66034] growth but of national opportunity. 463 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 464

Vince Cable: I am sure that Lord Heseltine, Sir Ian Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): What Wrigglesworth and their team will hear my hon. Friend’s assessment have the Government made of the effect of advocacy on behalf of one of the 500 projects. It the core and margin proposals for student funding on sounds a very good one, and I look forward to seeing it conservatoires such as Trinity Laban in my constituency, in the pipeline. of which I am an unpaid director?

Topical Questions The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David Willetts): The Government understand the particular value and needs of conservatoires, which is why we T1. [66041] Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): If drew particular attention to their need for proper financing he will make a statement on his departmental in our grant letter to the Higher Education Funding responsibilities. Council for England.

The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation T3. [66044] Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con): Using and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The Department is responsible his extensive business experience, as demonstrated by for reducing regulation, increasing trade, growing the his confident and oft-repeated ability to foresee the economy and promoting excellence in higher education economic downturn over many years, would the and skills. Secretary of State like to impart some of his wisdom and comment on how his Department, under his expert Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): With regard leadership, has helped small businesses to flourish, to deregulation, the Minister will have seen the report particularly management and IT consultants? from the CEOs conference held by The Times, which suggests that an unencumbered supply side is key to Mr Prisk: As you can see, Mr Speaker, we are able to growth. One of the key recommendations was moving work closely together as a team and assume all sorts of to faster deregulation—far from one in, one out, it identities. hoped for five out and only one in. Can he make any The key thing to bear in mind is that when we look at statement on that? the number of small business start-ups this year and last, we see an increase of 51,000. According to leading Mr Prisk: I am always keen to accelerate matters, but independent surveys, there were 470,000. That is a good it is worth putting it on the record that in the past sign that we are making early progress, but there is 12 months this Department alone has been able to scrap much more to do. regulations that would have cost business £430 million every year. It is a good start, but, yes, we want to move Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): Is the Secretary forward. of State aware that the British train building industry hangs in the balance following the decision to appoint T5. [66047] Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) Siemens as the preferred bidder for the Thameslink (Lab/Co-op): In January, at a cost of £300,000, the contract? Unless it is reversed, it will cost the Exchequer Prime Minister stripped the Business Secretary of his more than £100 million in lost tax revenue. Derby does responsibility for media competition and policy issues not need a task force, we need a reversal of the decision. after he declared war on Rupert Murdoch. Given Will he give a commitment to make representations to yesterday’s announcement by News Corp that it is the Transport Secretary and the Prime Minister to call dropping the bid for BSkyB, does he expect to have in the decision, to protect thousands of jobs and stand those powers transferred back to him at BIS? up for British industry?

The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Mr Prisk: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s passion, Skills (Vince Cable): I do not know the answer to that but I think that the taskforce is important. If we start to question, but I am delighted to discover that the unpick the contract now—in the third year of its whole of Britain and the House of Commons now running—we will face legal reviews and problems with agrees with me. how the project progresses. We need to deal with the procurement system as a whole. I am sorry to say that T2. [66043] John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): Central his Front-Bench team failed to do that in 13 years. Government clearly has a major role to play in supporting and helping business, but we often T4. [66045] Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): underestimate the importance of local government’s University Centre Milton Keynes, in conjunction with ability to support, or indeed hinder, business. Does the local partners, is developing a knowledge gateway to Secretary of State believe that returning business rates stimulate enterprise and skills. May I urge my right to local government control will be good for business? hon. Friend to meet the dean of UCMK to explore how his Department might be able to support this Vince Cable: Yes, I think it is a good idea in principle. initiative? Indeed, I announced it in a statement to the House last year. It could incentivise councils to attract businesses Mr Willetts: I would be pleased to meet the dean. Of to their area. That is the reasoning behind it, but we course we absolutely support these types of initiatives, have to be careful to ensure that there is an equalisation which improve the links between universities, employers mechanism—some areas, of course, have a strong starting and businesses. That is one reason we have invited Sir advantage—and to protect businesses from a very large Tim Wilson to consider how we can revive the sandwich increase in business rates, which could have the opposite course that disappeared under the previous Labour effect. Government. 465 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 466

Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) does the Secretary of State think it appropriate that his (PC): What consideration has been given to creating a Lib Dem colleagues are in Parliament today hosting a dedicated Minister for manufacturing within the reception to endorse it? Department to promote this vital economic area? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Mr Prisk: We have one—it is me. Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): The hon. Lady will know that the Government are working very closely with Citizens Advice on all these sorts of issues T6. [66048] Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South and that it is important to listen to the industry on a Pembrokeshire) (Con): One of the major barriers to the range of issues. I would have thought therefore that she growth of small and medium-sized enterprises in west welcomed hon. Members listening to the industry. She Wales is banks refusing to offer facilities to—or, worse often does not listen to the industry and so often is not still, withdrawing facilities from—companies that are as informed as she could be. perfectly viable and with which they have had a relationship over many years. Will the Minister offer T8. [66050] Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): The Secretary any advice to those companies and ensure us that he of State will be aware that more than 80% of jobs in my will work with the Treasury to iron out these issues? constituency are in the private sector. Will he therefore congratulate the world-famous jam-makers Wilkin & Vince Cable: My hon. Friend recognises a real Sons, based in Tiptree, on its outstanding international problem—there remains an issue with the supply of business, on all it is doing to create good local jobs and finance. Indeed, an independent survey on Monday on all that it does to promote its brand—a great demonstrated that about 15% of companies are probably international British brand—at home and abroad? discouraged from applying for it. We must wait for the figures in August from the Merlin process, but, as I have Mr Prisk: I am delighted to support the company made clear in the House before, the Government can in Tiptree; hon. Members can perhaps see that I tend take further action if those figures are not satisfactory. to do that too often, given my breadth. It is an excellent business that is showing the way, through its Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): In exports and productivity. It is a business that we can be response to a question from my hon. Friend the Member proud of. for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), the Minister’s answer was more fairy story than fact. What Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): Five independent he did not tell the House was that by 2015 the number schools send more pupils to Oxbridge than 2,000 other of private housing starts will be 14% lower than in 2007, schools combined. What is the Minister going to ask that public housing starts will fall by 39% over the next Oxford and Cambridge to do about that? three years and that road construction spending will be Mr Willetts: That is why we have required of them halved by 2014. These are the facts—what is he going to much more ambitious programmes on access than the do about them? previous Government required. Oxford’s proposals, released this week, show a big extension of summer schools and Mr Prisk: We are investing £10 billion in the road an extra effort to reach precisely that pool of talent to programme, £14 billion in the rail programme and which the hon. Lady refers. £200 billion in infrastructure. We have put in place the first national infrastructure plan, which the Labour Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): The French company EDF party failed to do. We are working with industry and is about to build a giant wind farm off Redcar. The construction, and I am sorry that the Labour party has main contractor will be German, and most of the nothing positive to add. materials will be imported. What more can the Government do to ensure that British business benefits more from T7. [66049] Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): Will the such projects? Secretary of State confirm that he will consider the proposal for the technology and innovation centre for Mr Prisk: This comes back to ensuring that our offshore renewables that brings together a network of procurement system is reformed and reviewed, and that key hubs across the country, such as OrbisEnergy in is what we are going to do, to ensure that errors are not Lowestoft in my constituency, so as to ensure that the repeated. whole of the UK benefits from the proposed TIC? Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of the Scottish Vince Cable: We will certainly consider the proposal, Government’s decision to charge English students tuition but, as my hon. Friend knows, there is a proper process fees of up to £9,000? for evaluating different bids. The third TIC will centre on renewables, substantially on wind, and existing centres, Mr Willetts: I know that there is strong feeling in such as the one in his constituency, are eligible and may England about that, but it is a matter for the Scottish well be considered. Government and therefore not one for which this Government are responsible. Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): Yesterday the Prime Minister told us that Citizens Advice was one George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): I know that of the most admired organisations in the country. Given the Minister shares my passion for the potential of our that it and Consumer Focus are boycotting the payday biomedical sector to create new jobs and businesses. industry proposals on a voluntary code of practice, Will he update the House on some of the exciting 467 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 468 developments at Sandwich, Charnwood and Stevenage, Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): Following on in regard to the opportunities for the UK in reorganising from the question from my hon. Friend the Member for the pharmaceutical sector? Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), may I ask the Minister whether he is surprised that the Scottish National party, Mr Willetts: This morning, I will be going to the which voted in this House against tuition fees, is planning topping-out ceremony of the bio-incubator at Stevenage, to impose them now that it is in government in Scotland? which represents precisely the kind of future for our life What discussions has he had with the Scottish Government sciences that we wish to see. It is also very good news to ensure that English students can attend excellent that Pfizer has now decided that it wishes to have a Scottish universities such as Queen Margaret university continuing presence at its research centre in Sandwich. in my constituency?

Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Mr Willetts: I do discuss this issue with the Scottish Cleveland) (Lab): Can the Secretary of State confirm or Government because it is important that students deny that his Department is giving grants to fire authorities throughout the whole of the United Kingdom have to set up arm’s length companies that will tender for proper opportunities to travel to universities around the private sector contracts? United Kingdom. I also observe that, proportionally, many more Scottish students still wish to study at Vince Cable: I can neither confirm nor deny that; I English universities than the other way round. will certainly investigate it. Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): The Secretary Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Given that of State will be aware of the recent announcement in Northamptonshire has one of the fastest-growing Edinburgh by the climate change Minister of £20 million populations in the country and that it sits at the crossroads to be channelled into marine energy. Does he agree that of England, will the business Minister look favourably the green investment bank could play a key role in this at the bid that is now on his desk to establish a local exciting sector and could do that best by being located enterprise partnership there? in Edinburgh near to the hub of this developing sector?

Mr Prisk: My hon. Friend knows very well that an Vince Cable: I am well aware—I am tempted to say excellent south-east midlands proposal is already under painfully aware—of the volume of representations coming way. I am encouraging people to work together, but we from Edinburgh and elsewhere on this subject. They will certainly always look at representations on a fair make a very good case for themselves, but will ultimately and open basis. have to be judged against a variety of criteria relating to how the mission of the green investment bank will be Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Will the Secretary advanced and the talent pool available. of State actively seek to get responsibility for competition policy in media ownership back into his Department? The fact that he was honey-trapped in his surgery does Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): Will the not mean that it should not be a Minister in his Department acting skills Minister tell me whether we will definitely who takes such decisions. We have now seen the error of be able to see the equality impact assessment of the sending these matters to the Department for Culture, Government’s proposed changes to ESOL—English for Media and Sport. speakers of other languages—next week? It has been promised to me twice, but we have still not seen it. Vince Cable: Unlike my predecessors, I do not see my job in terms of empire building; I am more concerned Vince Cable: Yes, I have indeed seen the equality that we should get good policy. The Deputy Prime impact assessment; it will be released very soon. Minister has spoken today on the need radically to reform policy in relation to competition and cross-ownership Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): More than two in the media. Indeed, we might well have to revisit the fifths of places to study medicine are awarded to prospective legislation, because it is clearly unsatisfactory. students living in the top fifth of areas for higher education participation. Will the Minister for Universities Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con): With reference and Science consider the social background profile of to the Minister’s response to the question from my hon. students on longer degree courses, so that the Office for Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), Fair Access can demand specific actions for these courses Triton Showers, which employs 400 people in my in future access agreements? constituency, is extremely concerned that the waste electrical and electronic equipment directive is now Mr Willetts: I know that the medical profession is being aggressively enforced by the Environment Agency. committed to trying to ensure that it attracts talented Bearing in mind the Minister’s earlier answer, will he people who can contribute to medicine regardless of now make representations to the Department for their background. Of course, together with the Secretary Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on this issue, of State for Health, I recently announced a very fair which is causing real concern in the electric shower funding arrangement for medical students, which I hope industry? will ensure that the profession will continue to be open to young people—whatever their background. Mr Davey: I will certainly look at this. As I said in my answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury, Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): The Minister the guidance is slightly separate from the directive, so is aware that private and public sector have been working there is a need for clarity. That is why we are trying to together to try to deliver 1,200 new jobs and training renegotiate these matters in the recasting of the directive. opportunities to east Durham through the film studio 469 Oral Answers14 JULY 2011 Oral Answers 470 and centre for creative excellence. Has he given any of Lord Mervyn Davies encourages chairmen and chief further consideration to some sector-specific measures executives to publish their aspirations and to have a to encourage this development? strategy for their aspirations to have more women on boards. When we consult on the future of narrative Mr Prisk: My Department and, of course, the reporting, we want to consult on the proposal to make Department for Culture, Media and Sport will want to the top FTSE 350 companies disclose their performance, look at this together. I am aware of the proposal, as the including on women on boards. hon. Gentleman knows, and I will look at it on that basis. Mr Speaker: Earlier in this question session, the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills lamented the absence of his colleague, the Minister for Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): On Tuesday, Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, and LVMH, which produces perhaps some of the Minister’s referred to the increased burden on him by virtue of favourite luxury brands of Louis Vuitton and Moët that absence. I thought I would share with the House Hennessy, signed the “woman on the board pledge for the very courteous letter I have received from the Minister Europe”. Will the Minister update us on what steps he of State, the hon. Member for South Holland and The will take to encourage British business to sign this Deepings (Mr Hayes), who wrote earlier this week as pledge, and does he agree that increasing the representation follows: of women on British boards is a matter of necessity, not luxury? “Dear Mr Speaker, My apologies for not being present for either DfE or BIS questions as I am abroad on Government business. I hope that your disappointment is as great as mine at Mr Davey: I strongly support the sentiments behind the missed opportunities for a heady mix of scrutiny and theatre my hon. Friend’s question. He will know that the report beloved by we connoisseurs of such things.” 471 14 JULY 2011 Common Fisheries Policy 472

Common Fisheries Policy their national fleets. It would be good if the Minister could go to the Council and argue for a level playing field for British fishermen. 11.34 am Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con) (Urgent Richard Benyon: The short answer to my hon. Friend’s Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, first question is yes. The Government recognise the Food and Rural Affairs if she will make a statement on value of recreational sea angling, and we want to encourage the European Commission’s proposed reforms of the it. We are running a specific project to identify sea European common fisheries policy, which were published anglers and their numbers, and to support their work on 13 July. The House will know of my special interest for both tourism and the natural environment. Sea in fisheries. angling from the shore has no connection with the common fisheries policy, and will remain our national The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for responsibility. We hope to see more sea anglers fishing Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon): onshore and from vessels. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the opportunity to As for my hon. Friend’s second, more technical question apprise the House of yesterday’s important announcement about the 12-mile limit, we will look for any opportunity and the Government’s ongoing agenda in regard to to take more control over the management of our reform of the common fisheries policy. fisheries at a local level. The thrust of our proposals has The United Kingdom Government welcome the release been, and will continue to be, a decentralisation of of the European Commission’s proposals. The current fisheries management. We, too, want a level playing CFP has failed. It has not given us healthy fish stocks, field, and my hon. Friend was entirely right to suggest and it has not delivered a sustainable living for our that. Any examples of countries’ failing to comply will fishing industry. Only genuine, fundamental reform of be our responsibility in the negotiations. this broken policy can turn around those failures, and Finally, let me say something about our marine the proposals released by the Commission yesterday are conservation measures. We want to ensure that we do a vital first step. not limit the activities of our fishermen in our waters, The key elements of the proposal are the introduction and then see other fishermen, with historic rights that of a phased ban on the discarding of commercial fish; may precede 1972, coming into our waters and fishing decentralisation of decision-making, away from micro- in an unacceptable way. I assure my hon. Friend that I management in Brussels; a longer-term approach am determined to see a level playing field. focused on the introduction of multi-annual plans that deliver maximum sustainable yield by 2015; Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): May I integration of fisheries management with other marine offer the Opposition’s support for the reforms proposed policies; market measures allocating transferable fishing by the European Commission yesterday? They present concessions; improvements in the sustainability and a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reshape the current transparency of fisheries agreements with developing top-down, broken common fisheries policy into one countries under the CFP’s external dimension; and that can better serve the fishing industry and consumers, commitments to improve scientific knowledge and and protect our marine environment. encourage the development of sustainable aquaculture. This marks the start of lengthy negotiations, and the Will the Minister join me in welcoming the potential United Kingdom will play a full part of helping to that the reforms have to end the scandal of up to 60% of improve the proposals and get the detail right. We are fish in some European fisheries being discarded at sea ready to work alongside our allies at home and abroad by introducing individual, nationally tradeable catch to grasp this once-in-a-decade opportunity. shares? Will he also support further incentives for the fishing industry to increase investment in selective fishing nets and other monitoring equipment, which could cut Sheryll Murray: I thank my hon. Friend for coming the levels of discards and by-catch still further? Will he to the House to give us that update, and for his efforts take up the challenge from the WWF to call for specific thus far on behalf of the fishing industry and fish measures to ensure that environmental targets are met stocks. by a new common fisheries policy, and to rebuild fisheries Article 25 of the proposed basic regulation states that which the Commission said yesterday have been over- a member state may adopt measures for the conservation exploited by 75%? Small-scale fleets account for 77% of of fish stocks in European Union waters within up to total EU fleet size, but only 8% in terms of tonnage. 12 miles, which will apply to vessels flying the flag of Will the Minister indicate how these proposals will that member state, or, in the case of fishing activities secure the viability of that sector? that are not conducted by a fishing vessel, to persons Finally, does the Minister share my disappointment established in the territory. Will my hon. Friend confirm that although a consensus in favour of these changes that he will not apply any restrictions to recreational sea is building throughout the EU, the Scottish anglers who fish from the shore around our coastline? Government have chosen this moment to isolate When he goes to the Council of Ministers, will my themselves in Europe by opposing these reforms, hon. Friend make representations to enable the United and although their views will be respected, they will not Kingdom to introduce high standards of management shift the unanimous will of this House, nor of the and conservation in respect of all fishing vessels that 700,000 people who have signed the Fish Fight petition, fish within the 12-mile limit in our territorial waters? to seize this moment for reform in the interests of the There is a precedent: most of the new member states, sustainability of fish stocks and the future of the fishing and Greece, restrict fishing within their 12-mile limits to industry? 473 Common Fisheries Policy14 JULY 2011 Common Fisheries Policy 474

Richard Benyon: I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s conservation schemes—our marine-protected areas, continued support for the Government’s position. I said our marine conservation zones under the Marine and this was a once-in-a-decade opportunity, but I rather Coastal Access Act 2009—are entirely in accordance prefer his reference to this being a once-in-a-generation with that directive, so it is impossible for other countries opportunity. If we do not get this right this time, we all to try to say we are acting in a discriminatory way. I got know what the state of both fish stocks in United the verbal support of the Commissioner on this in my Kingdom waters and the fishing industry could be, so a negotiations with her, and I want to make sure we lot is riding on this. Things do not come much more underpin this issue in the negotiations going forward. important than success in these rounds. The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the point about Austin Mitchell (Great Grimsby) (Lab): I hope that discards, as that is fundamental to these reforms. Steps the Minister will accept that the Commission’s proposals such as the great work that was going on before we are rather like the curate’s fish: good in parts, but very came to government—and which I hope he feels we smelly in others. There is a particular problem, which I have continued—and the development of concepts such hope he will pursue, with the national input, which is as Fishing for the Markets, which looks at the 54% of now beginning. First, in the process of decentralisation, discards created by the fact that there is no market for more power should be passed down to the regional these fish, are all good in themselves, but the Fish Fight advisory councils, which involve the industry and have campaign came at precisely the right time and has lit a done a good job. Secondly, in pushing the question of fuse under what we are seeking to achieve. The discards back to the national Governments, the Commission’s proposals are bold and we want to support commissioner is trying to perform a populist trick, that spirit of boldness, and also to make sure that they because discards pose a particular problem for mixed are practical. We think the Commissioner is going in fisheries—which we have—and quotas. There are bound the right direction on discards. to be discards, and the fish are dead, whether they are I want to make sure that fishermen are seen as part of landed or dumped at sea. We have to deal with the the solution, and not just hit by yet more control and problem, but it is better dealt with in the way that the regulation. Where we have worked with fishermen, such industry is dealing with it now—by selective measures, as on catch quotas and Project 50%, and what we are which have cut discards by 50% over 10 years—than doing on Fishing for the Markets, show that this is the through the blanket ban that the Commission proposes. way forward. I hope that the Minister will bear that in mind in the negotiations. The hon. Gentleman raised a point about the under-10 metre fleet. We have just finished a consultation on trying to improve the fishing opportunity for the under-10s. Richard Benyon: I entirely endorse the hon. Gentleman’s The wording in the Commission’s document offers the concerns about decentralisation. If I have a disappointment, potential for a one-way valve. We could transfer some it is about the tone of the document. I do not think that of the rights-based proposals to enhance the under-10 there is quite as much as we had hoped for on regionalisation metre fleet without disadvantaging the over-10 metre and decentralisation. What do we mean by that? It fleet, which is also suffering. I am therefore mindful of means that we want fisheries to be managed on an the difficult balance we have to achieve. ecosystem basis. It means that when it comes to the On the final point about Scotland, I just give the hon. Irish sea, for example, we are talking with the Irish Gentleman my assurance that I will work very closely Government and devolved Governments to try to with all the devolved Governments. I want to achieve a match what we know is a complex mixed fishery; UK position on this, because that will give strength to and, when it comes to his constituency, we are our negotiating position. I do not recognise a huge proceeding in a similar way on the North sea. We will difference between us and the Scottish Government. I push hard for that, because we absolutely agree with the know they have concerns about rights-based management, hon. Gentleman that top-down micro-management, under but I think we can get round that and I hope we can which net sizes and other technical measures are decided have a UK position going forward. in Brussels, has failed and would be a disaster if allowed to continue. Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): First, may I congratulate The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that if most my hon. Friend the Minister on his negotiating skills of the 700,000 people who signed the Fish Fight petition and endorse the comments of my hon. Friend the saw a headline with the words “discards” and “ban” in Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray)? In it, they might think, “Great! Job done,” but he and I respect of inshore fishing and in particular the 12-mile know that it is not as simple as that. In order for the limit, will my hon. Friend the Minister ensure that the measure to be effective, particularly in mixed fisheries, historic rights of foreign vessels operating within that we need to be nuanced and careful. That is why we have zone are properly scrutinised, particularly where they to ensure that we work closely, as he said, through the are towing away the gear of some of the inshore men, system of management that we develop and that we do and ensure that there is equality of enforcement within not just allow a problem that at the moment happens at those 12 miles? sea to be converted to a landfill problem, which is what could happen unless we are imaginative. Richard Benyon: I am happy to give my hon. Friend the assurance that I am absolutely determined that Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): One cannot ring-fence vessels from overseas respect whatever rules we bring in. European fisheries. Will my hon. Friend update the Looking at the wording of this document, the means we House on what is happening on the fisheries partnership are applying here is the marine strategy framework agreements with developing countries, and how that directive. The policies we are implementing through our might affect what happens in EU waters? 475 Common Fisheries Policy14 JULY 2011 Common Fisheries Policy 476

Richard Benyon: This has been one of the most The point about the consultation is that it is a UK—or worrying developments of the common fisheries policy English, in this case—Government responsibility. We in recent years. We cannot get our act together just in can carry it out and make changes that will advantage UK waters and in EU waters while ignoring the EU’s my hon. Friend’s fishermen and, I hope, not disadvantage footprint on fisheries—if one can have a footprint on others. The Commission paper offers opportunities to fisheries—further afield. I have been visited by fishermen rebalance the industry where we feel it is necessary, from Mauritania, Cape Verde and Senegal, and have without disadvantaging either side, through market been truly shocked by what I have heard about the mechanisms that will see the transfer of fishing opportunity impact not just of EU vessels, but of vessels from other between willing buyer and willing seller in a direction countries. Those vessels have been fishing totally that fishermen in her constituency will find very attractive. unsustainably, which has had a destabilising effect on the economies of those coastal communities, along with Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): I welcome other, social effects and the increased migration that Commissioner Damanaki’s proposals and ask the Minister this has caused. We have to understand that we in the to confirm that he will support the proposal to establish EU really have to get our house in order, because it will a legal obligation to set fishing limits at sustainable have huge implications for developing countries if we levels by 2015. On the question of discards, the requirement do not. to land all catch of specified species and the catch limits will effectively act as a ban on discarding the species Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): I most commonly associated with the problem, but will very much welcome the Minister’s commitment to radical not tackle the problem for all the species. Notwithstanding reform of fisheries management policy in Europe. I also the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for welcome his commitment to working with the devolved Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell), the Minister will Governments in that process. However, I hope that he know that if we are to assess stock levels and to obtain will also share my concern that according to the European the scientific data that we need to consider on an Commission’s own impact assessment, the proposals ecosystems basis, that is the only way of achieving the could result in a 20% reduction in the Scottish fishing legal— fleet—a fleet that has already been halved in the past 10 years. What assurances can the Minister give that the Mr Speaker: Order. I am extremely grateful to the most conservation-conscious and aware fleet in Europe hon. Gentleman. will not be further punished for the failures of the common fisheries policy? Richard Benyon: I know that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to see the words “ecosystem approach” at the Richard Benyon: The hon. Lady is right to raise heart of the document and he is right to have pushed for concerns on behalf of her constituents. I can give her an that. We are committed to fishing to a maximum sustainable assurance that we are working through the detail of the yield by 2015. Many people talk about that as though it proposals. As she knows, this is a major step, but it is is the great nirvana of fisheries management but many also a first step in the negotiations, which will take people do not understand what maximum sustainable another 18 months to secure. I will be working closely yield actually means. People talk about it as a line or a with my colleague Richard Lochhead in Scotland and bandwidth and many people do not understand its with other devolved Ministers to try to ensure that we implications for a mixed fishery. The Government made represent all the UK fleets. I cannot say at this stage that commitment in Johannesburg and it fits in with our whether the impact assessment would have the effect move towards good environmental status in 2020. Those that she mentioned. However, I entirely concur with her commitments are solid. The hon. Gentleman also that the Scottish fleet has taken great strides in fishing mentioned discards. He is right that many species are more sustainably, embracing concepts such as catch discarded, as I said, because there is no market for quotas. I will continue to work with her and others to them. Markets are being developed through good work ensure that this is understood not just here, but abroad being done by DEFRA as well as retailers and celebrity as well. chefs and we will make sure that we extend that—

Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): I have been Mr Speaker: Order. We are grateful. speaking to my Thanet fishermen this morning and they very much welcome what they see as an opening up Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I spent of opportunities for the under-10 fleet. Will the Minister 10 years listening to warm words from the European confirm that that will offer us the opportunity to take Commission. May I urge the Minister to take as much advantage of technical measures and effort control to unilateral action as possible, first, to ban discards from see a significant reduction in discards as a devolved our 12-mile limits, at the very least, and to use that fish mechanism that will be the responsibility of the Government efficiently both to eat and to process for fish farms and, and not determined by the EU? secondly, to look after sea anglers and the under-10-metre fleet? We can do much more as a nation; let us lead by Richard Benyon: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for example and take the rest of the European countries facilitating a useful meeting with fishermen in her with us. constituency last week to hear their concerns about our under-10-metre consultation, which, like all Richard Benyon: I am grateful to my hon. Friend and things to do with fisheries, is welcomed massively at one I recognise his experience and the cynicism born out of end of the spectrum and treated with suspicion at the his many years on the other side of the channel. I assure other. I want to ensure that we can keep as many happy him that I will do all that. I want to ensure that Britain as we can. continues to be at the forefront of calling for radical 477 Common Fisheries Policy14 JULY 2011 Common Fisheries Policy 478

[Richard Benyon] treaties and this House might collectively decide to do that at some point in the future, but we are dealing with reform and I am concerned with outcomes, not warm an industry with genuine problems that are affecting words. I am sure there will be plenty of warm words, but coastal towns socially through jobs, people’s livelihoods the proof will be found in what my fellow Ministers do. and processing industries as well as affecting our food Co-decision among his erstwhile colleagues in the European security. That is why I want to put all my efforts into Parliament is now really important. trying to get the right result out of these negotiations. I hope I have the support of the House in doing that. Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ Co-op): I agree with the Minister that one of the more Several hon. Members rose— welcome aspects of what the Commission has said is the move towards longer-term arrangements. Does he Mr Speaker: Order. These are very important exchanges share my concern that without a parallel move to local but they are slow—I have checked the record—and they management such arrangements will not solve the problems need to get sharper as regards the speed of both questions inherent in the CFP? and answers.

Richard Benyon: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): right and that is one of the problems with the cod The proposals are very welcome, but does the Minister recovery plan. We want to see a much more localised agree that given the finite nature of the European management of the long-term management plans. I like maritime fisheries fund, they will work only if he is able long-term management plans because to an extent, to convince British consumers to develop a test for although not totally, they take power away from politicians. those species that are discarded? Notwithstanding his The frankly ridiculous process we go through every comments about Jamie Oliver, how does he propose to December will become less of a horse-trading event if do that? plans are written into a solid long-term process. That is why I am pleased to see this development in the document Richard Benyon: I refer my hon. Friend to the Fishing and that the Government’s firm views on this matter for the Markets scheme, which I mentioned earlier and have been listened to. is trying to do precisely that. It is trying to create new supply chain mechanisms for various species as well as Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): I commend the to give us a more eclectic taste in the fish we eat. We Commissioner for her statement and the Minister for basically eat five species of fish in this country and in his hard work on this subject. There are two scandals Spain, I think, they eat 20 or 30. I urge my hon. Friend with how fisheries are managed in Europe: discards, and other colleagues to start eating dab, coley, gurnard which are now out in the open; and slipper skippers, and other species that are thrown away much too readily that is, people who hold and trade quota and have no and are absolutely delicious. connection with the industry. What is he doing to address that elephant in the room? Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Richard Benyon: I thank my hon. Friend for raising Murray) on securing the urgent question. It is good to that issue. I share his concern and with many issues hear such all-party support in the Chamber for the relating to fisheries I always start by thinking, “I would position being taken by the Minister. That is extremely not have started from here.” We have these so-called important. However, he will be aware that the industry slipper skippers—although we do not have quite as feels very strongly that what we are seeing is basically a many as are sometimes declared—because many of the framework with a few headline-grabbing statements but trades of fishing opportunity were done privately. We not a lot of substance. There is a considerable amount have never created a clear right; we have created a of work to do. Given that we did not have a proper deemed right of access to a national resource. That is fisheries debate last year, will he ensure that this year we why I hope that a rights-based management scheme, as have a proper, full day’s debate so that this crucial issue I have outlined, will offer the opportunity for clarity. I can be properly discussed? believe the work we are doing in DEFRA and through the Marine Management Organisation to identify who Richard Benyon: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman owns quota will go a long way towards dealing with the for his work through the all-party group; he is very urban—or aqua—myths about quota being held by much respected in the House for his views on this issue. football clubs and celebrities. We had a four-hour debate on discards and working towards maximum sustainable yield not long ago. I Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): The CFP has share his disappointment that the annual fisheries debate been an unmitigated disaster and during my 14 years in was moved to Westminster Hall; I hope that this year it this Chamber I have called many times for its abolition will take place in the Chamber and that we will have a and for Britain either to seek its abolition or to give full day’s debate. notice that at some point we will withdraw from the CFP and reclaim our 200-mile historic fishing limits. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): By any objective Will the Minister keep that possibility open in any measure, the common fisheries policy has been a complete negotiations? and utter disaster for British fishermen and British consumers, not to mention the fact that it has not been Richard Benyon: My priority, as I have said to the too good for fish stocks. Could the Minister please hon. Gentleman before, is to deal with an industry in inform the House what benefits for Britain, if any, he crisis. I could spend all my energies trying to unpick thinks there have been from the policy? 479 Common Fisheries Policy14 JULY 2011 Common Fisheries Policy 480

Richard Benyon: I cannot. I share my hon. Friend’s Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): The Minister view that the common fisheries policy has been a failure has spoken cautiously about the need to navigate through on every level. He rightly points out that there are fewer the different interests within the fisheries group. Does fishermen and fewer fish. However, we have to recognise he nevertheless recognise that in the past 20 years the that fish move between national boundaries and I hope massive benefit of the tradeable quota has largely been he will agree that we should operate on an ecosystem with the producer organisations—the larger fisheries? basis, looking at the full extent of where fish move in a Can he assure us that there will be emphasis during all passport-free, Schengen-agreement type way. We can negotiations on ensuring that the under-10-metre fisheries adapt our fishing policies to how fish behave. are restored to their former glory?

Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Minister for his response to the urgent question. The common Richard Benyon: My hon. Friend, like many Members fisheries policy has galvanised all the fishing industry in of the House, is very good at standing up for fishing Northern Ireland to oppose it. This morning, we perhaps interests in her constituency. I assure her and them that have an opportunity to get things right for the future. my commitment to getting a better deal for the under- The Minister mentioned regionalisation. Could he enlighten 10-metre fleet remains absolutely solid. I am grateful us further on how he sees that happening? Will control for the work that she and fishermen in her constituency, in Northern Ireland be with local representatives in the as well as the New Under Ten Fishermen’s Association Northern Ireland Assembly or will it be with the villages and other organisations have been doing to make as well? He has not mentioned decommissioning. With consultation become a reality. Let me reassure her that I regionalisation, will there be decommissioning? If so, want a better deal for our inshore fleet, which largely will it ensure that the fishing industry is sustainable in fishes sustainably and needs better fishing opportunities. future? Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): May I return Richard Benyon: There has been no word of to the important point raised by the hon. Member for decommissioning per se in the document, but I recognise Banbury (Tony Baldry) earlier? The problem of overfishing that it might be required in some areas by some fishing is global and threatens life in the oceans as a whole. This communities as a possible way forward. At this stage, I is urgent: will the Minister give a commitment that the cannot promise any money from the UK Government British Government will use the opportunity presented or suggest that it could be forthcoming from the EU, by this review of the common fisheries policy to but I assure the hon. Gentleman that when we talk internationalise this process and to make sure there is about localised, regionalised or devolved management, investment in the real scientific research this problem I want to see much more involvement from fishermen in needs? communities such as his. I want this to be addressed on a sea-basin basis, with consideration of where fishermen are fishing. The regional advisory councils have been a Richard Benyon: On the latter point, absolutely. Science very good model for this and I believe that is the way has not been mentioned this morning, but it is very forward. important that we develop a much closer working relationship between scientists and fishermen and that Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): It is hard to our scientific understanding of fish stocks is improved. believe that the Minister believes the twaddle he has I am very pleased to see in the document a commitment been talking today. The common fisheries policy has to address fisheries partnership agreements and the been an unmitigated disaster and the British people impact they could have on seas and ecosystems beyond want to come out of the European Union—would not EU borders. I think we should all be concerned if our that be the simple solution? taxpayers’ money is going in benign or actual subsidies to fishing practices at home or abroad that are hugely Richard Benyon: That is not really on the subject and damaging not only to the marine environment but to is slightly above my pay grade, but I agree that the the societies that the marine environment should be common fisheries policy has been an unmitigated disaster. supporting.

Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): Having worked at Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): The European Commission’s the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food during proposals will ban the discard of quota fish only, but the so-called tuna wars of the mid-1990s, I am keen to many discards are non-quota, as the Minister will be ask my hon. Friend what focus will be given to monitoring aware. Do the Government propose a total ban on the practices of foreign fishing vessels under any future discards or not? CFP regime. Richard Benyon: We want to work with the industry to achieve an end to discards, which means looking at Richard Benyon: The good news is that there is much the whole range of species that are discarded. I was on a better technology now. I have sat in the operations room trawler last week watching perfectly edible fish being of the Marine Management Organisation looking at thrown into the sea. I know what an affront that is to us, vessel monitoring systems data on where every vessel is. and the great British public are outraged by it. We have One can tell precisely what those vessels are doing, and to make sure that we follow this up and do not simply that is improving with e-log books. I went out with a follow the letter of the document. The good work being Fishery Protection Squadron patrol the other day and done by DEFRA and partners in our Fishing for the saw the work it does, and I was really impressed by its Markets project and other schemes really makes a difference. professionalism. I can give my hon. Friend a commitment I think we can get there. that we will work extremely hard to continue to be 481 Common Fisheries Policy 14 JULY 2011 482

[Richard Benyon] Business of the House experts in what we do. We are respected throughout the world for our work on monitoring fisheries, and technology 12.10 pm is on our side. Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): Will the Leader of the House give us the forthcoming business? Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): The Minister will be aware of concerns that the proposals might allow an international trade in quotas to result in The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Scottish fishermen’s not being able to fish in Scottish Young): The business for the week commencing 18 July waters. Will he find time to meet me and other MPs to is as follows: discuss this matter during the consultation? MONDAY 18 JULY—Motions relating to national policy statements, followed by a motion to approve the Richard Benyon: I would like to meet hon. Members appointment of the Parliamentary Commissioner for from both sides of the House during this process and to Administration and Health Service Commissioner for keep up a regular dialogue. I think there are England. misunderstandings about the possibility of creating a TUESDAY 19 JULY—General debate on matters to be market mechanism in tradeable quotas. I want to make raised before the forthcoming Adjournment, as nominated sure that they are retained in member states, that there by the Backbench Business Committee. is no possibility that more fishing opportunity can be The House will not adjourn until the Speaker has grabbed by fewer and fewer people and that there is a signified Royal Assent. social dimension to our fisheries policy. I want to try to get UK-wide agreement on this. Colleagues will wish to be aware that, subject to the approval of the House, the House will meet at 11.30 am Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): From 2013, when on that day. the new regulations come in, would it be possible for The business for the week commencing 5 September some very clever people, perhaps in DEFRA, to design will include: a system so that fish discards are distributed to charity, MONDAY 5SEPTEMBER—Remaining stages of the perhaps at home or even abroad? Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill.

Richard Benyon: The commissioner mentioned that TUESDAY 6SEPTEMBER—Remaining stages of the Health as part of the process; there are mechanisms within the and Social Care Bill (Day 1). common fisheries policy and common agricultural policy WEDNESDAY 7SEPTEMBER—Remaining stages of the to do that but they are a bit bureaucratic and are not Health and Social Care Bill (Day 2), followed by a very successful. I agree that it is an affront in a hungry motion to approve European documents relating to world, when we know that people live in poverty in our victims of crime. own country, that perfectly edible, quality fish are being thrown away, dead. We want to create new supply THURSDAY 8SEPTEMBER—If necessary, consideration chains that will address my hon. Friend’s concerns. of Lords amendments, followed by the remaining stages of the London Olympic Games and Paralympics Games Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Is it not the (Amendment) Bill. case that my hon. Friend the Minister would be carried FRIDAY 9SEPTEMBER—Private Members’ Bills. shoulder-high through the fishing villages and towns of Britain and up and down every high street in the land I should like to inform the House that the business in were he to announce the UK’s withdrawal from the Westminster Hall for Thursday 8 and 15 September common fisheries policy and the repatriation of British 2011 will be as follows: waters to British fishermen? That would be the best way THURSDAY 8SEPTEMBER—A debate on future flood of conserving fishing stocks and reviving our once-great and water management legislation. fishing industry. THURSDAY 15 SEPTEMBER—A debate on scientific advice Richard Benyon: I assure my hon. Friend that I did and evidence in emergencies. not enter this job in any belief that it would make me As these are the last business questions before the popular, but I do seek to get a good result for British summer recess, may I, as usual, thank the staff of the fishermen. I know and understand where he is coming House for all their hard work? I hope that they have a from. These discussions will no doubt be had in our good break before we return in September. party and others in future, but we want to deal with the here and now and with the art of the possible, and I Hilary Benn: I am grateful to the Leader of the assure him of my commitment to that. House for that reply. It is good to see him back at the Dispatch Box in his day job, after covering for the Prime Minister, who twice this week has sent someone else to the House when he should have been here himself. Last Friday, he was quite happy to be questioned by journalists on phone hacking, but he did not give Members that privilege until yesterday. So do we not now need the Procedure Committee’s recommendations on ministerial statements to be agreed as soon as possible? Will the Government find time for that? 483 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 484

The House knows that it took the Prime Minister a free of charge, whereas every other council must pay for little while to get it on News International, but some its regional development agency’s assets? Why is there others still do not get it. To argue that the story published one rule for London and another for the rest of the country? about the son of my right hon. Friend the Member for Finally, as these are the last business questions before Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) was acquired the summer recess, may I thank the Leader of the by legitimate means is to miss the point completely: it is House for his unfailing courtesy in answering Members’ never legitimate to publish medical information about a questions and in responding to the occasional provocation four-month-old just because of who his father is. on my part? May I wish him, the Deputy Leader of the This has, however, been a good week for Parliament, House, you, Mr Speaker, Members on both sides of the as the Leader of the House and the Leader of the House and, most importantly, the staff, who support us Opposition said yesterday: asking questions, scrutinising, so ably and work so hard, a very pleasant summer revealing the truth and working with the Government break? Who knows, perhaps the Leader of the House to hold News International to account. Can the Leader will find some time to start blogging again? of the House confirm this morning that the inquiry will now be established immediately? We need clarity about Sir George Young: I am grateful to the right hon. the setting-up date, to protect all the potential evidence. Gentleman. I used to put some light-hearted items on Given that it has been reported in the last few minutes my website, until he started to use them against me at that Rebekah Brooks has now agreed to appear before business questions. At that point, I am afraid, the the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport but practice had to stop. that a summons to appear is to be served on James Turning to the issues that the right hon. Gentleman Murdoch and Rupert Murdoch, can the Leader of the raised with me, I think that what he said about the House confirm that such orders apply regardless of Prime Minister was unworthy. The Prime Minister was nationality and that a further refusal to appear might be at the Dispatch Box for one hour and 56 minutes reported to the House as a breach of privilege? yesterday. He answered 78 questions from hon. Members, Can the Leader of the House tell us how many in addition to the questions that he answered during written ministerial statements the Government expect Prime Minister’s questions. He has made more statements to publish next Monday and Tuesday, given that we to the House than his predecessor did. The accusation have had 16 yesterday and 30 today? that he has in any way shirked his duties in the House is an unworthy one that simply cannot be sustained. I The Health and Social Care Bill is three times longer contrast my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister’s than the 1946 Act that set up the NHS and has now performance yesterday with the cry of pain that we heard been considered in Committee twice; but second time from the former Prime Minister from the Back Benches. round, only 64 of the Bill’s 299 clauses were looked at again. The Criminal Justice Bill 2003, which the Prime I would welcome a debate on the Procedure Committee’s Minister remembers well, had three days’ consideration report on ministerial statements. As the right hon. on Report; but given that this lengthy Bill has had to go Gentleman knows, it is a matter for the Backbench back to Committee a second time, will the Leader of the Business Committee to find time for such a debate. House find time for four days’ consideration on Report, We want to go ahead with the inquiry as soon as instead of the inadequate two days that have been possible. We have made a commitment to consult the offered? devolved Administrations and, indeed, others on the Last week, the Leader of the House was asked by my terms of reference and we will want to consult the judge right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) on the panel’s composition, but we want to get on with about Ministers who have refused to meet Members. I it as soon as we can. In the meantime, it is a criminal am now aware of at least eight cases in which that has offence to destroy evidence when criminal proceedings happened. I am surprised, Mr Speaker, because it is are under way. Once a tribunal has been established, surely the duty of every Minister to meet parliamentary additional penalties apply if evidence is destroyed. colleagues if they ask. May I thank the Leader of the We hope to make perhaps fewer written ministerial House and, indeed, the Deputy Leader of the House for statements than the right hon. Gentleman’s Administration their willingness to help to sort this out? We will pass did just before the summer recess; but of course, we them the details. want to keep the House informed and let hon. Members When will we have a debate on the higher education know of planned commitments before the House goes White Paper? The Minister for Universities and Skills into recess. promised that fees of £9,000 would be charged only in On the Health and Social Care Bill’s consideration on “exceptional circumstances”. However, we have learned Report, we have been very generous compared with the this week that the truth is very different: 80 universities previous Administration in having two days’ consideration will charge £9,000 for some courses, and the average fee on Report for the remaining stages of important legislation. will be £8,393. We have done that twice in the past month, and it was a May we have a debate on the north-south divide? The very rare event indeed under the right hon. Gentleman’s Yorkshire Post reports that, although 109,000 more Administration to get two days’ consideration on Report. people are in work in London compared with a year Last week, I did indeed answer a question from the ago, there are 20,000 fewer in Yorkshire and 15,000 right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar). I asked for fewer in the north-east. Yesterday, we saw the fastest details of incidents in which Ministers had refused to rise in the number of jobseeker’s allowance claimants see Members. To my knowledge, I have not received that for more than two years. In light of that, why is it the evidence; if the shadow Leader of the House has it, of Government’s policy that the Mayor of London has course I will pursue it and encourage my hon. Friends been given the London Development Agency’s assets to see Members who want meetings. 485 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 486

[Sir George Young] the Government to account. We cannot debate matters such as ministerial statements and handheld devices, or On higher education, if one looks below the surface, all the business coming out of the Procedure Committee, and includes the fee waivers, the average cost of courses unless the Government allocate us the time for those in 2012-13 comes down to £8,161. It will come down debates. I have repeatedly asked the Leader of the even further once we award 20,000 places to institutions House to consider allocating a regular, weekly slot, in charging less than £7,500, as we announced in the which Back Benchers can hold the Government to White Paper. That figure includes the extra support that account on the Floor of the House. Has he considered students will receive, amounting to an average £368 of that, and if he has, what are the arguments against it? benefits in the form of bursaries. Turning to the powers of Select Committees to summon Sir George Young: I welcome the work that the hon. witnesses, a Select Committee can make a report to the Lady does on her Committee. We have, of course, House if it is believed that a contempt has been committed. allocated a day next week to the Backbench Business It is then for you, Mr Speaker, to decide whether that Committee for the pre-recess Adjournment debate. Of should have precedence; the issue is then referred to the the 35 days to which we are committed, we have so far Select Committee on Standards and Privileges, which provided 32, which I think is a good record, considering can take the matter further. A range of sanctions is that there are many months of the Session still to go. available to the House for contempt. One includes you, She asked about a regular, weekly slot. She was a Mr Speaker, admonishing somebody who appears at member of Wright Committee, which looked at the the Bar of the House—a responsibility that I know you matter. It recognised the idea of a standard day every would discharge with aplomb. There is a range of other week, but also that leaving the matter to negotiations penalties, including fines and imprisonment, but that would avoid the rigidities of a set-day approach. The has not been used for some time. Committee’s alternative was a set number of days per Finally, I am grateful to the shadow Leader of the Session, provided for in Standing Orders. That is the House for what he said about business questions. In approach that we have taken. However, I take the point return, I hope that he has a very good recess. Of course, that the hon. Lady makes, and at the end of the Backbench it is not the case that when the House goes into recess, Business Committee’s first year, I think we can review Members stop working; the recess enables us to focus how it has worked and come to some conclusions on with even greater concentration on our responsibilities how we allocate time in future. in our constituencies. Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): The Leader Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): The Government of the House will have heard encouraging remarks from have encouraged the Procedure Committee to take on the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food the remit of the now defunct Modernisation Committee and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for in addition to its own work load, and there are three Newbury (Richard Benyon)—the Fisheries Minister—in Procedure Committee reports awaiting a decision of the previous item of business. He will have noted the this House, with a fourth report on the way. If the wide interest across the House in the issue of common Leader of the House is not prepared to allocate Government fisheries policy reform, and particularly the interest in time to determining those matters, will he give more the plight of the under-10-metre fleet and the crucial time to the Backbench Business Committee, and allocate issue of the 12-mile sovereign territory limit. Will the that time in a less erratic way, so that we can make some Leader of the House agree to put aside substantial time progress? for a proper debate on the issue, in time for the House to influence negotiations on reform of the CFP? Sir George Young: I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for the work that he is doing on the Procedure Sir George Young: That, in a sense, follows on from Committee; as he says, it is now in effect the work of the two earlier questions about the responsibilities of two Committees—the Procedure Committee and the the Backbench Business Committee. Previous debates now defunct Modernisation Committee. We remain on issues such as fisheries, defence and the EU were committed to allocating 35 days in a normal Session, provided for by the Government, in Government time. plus injury time in this Session, to the Backbench The recommendation of the Wright Committee was Business Committee. Those days may not be allocated that all those days, which would include days for debates evenly throughout the Session, because the volume of such as the one to which my hon. Friend refers, should Government legislation, and the commitment to it, be put in a pot and allocated to the Backbench Business means that at this time in the Session, we are doing a lot Committee. That is exactly what we have done, so of heavy lifting, but I hope that at the beginning of a responsibility for finding time for the debate to which Session, and perhaps towards the end, we will be able to he refers falls to the Backbench Business Committee, make up any ground that has been lost. We are committed using, in the rest of the Session, one of its 35 days plus. to the 35 days, plus extra days because this Session is longer than usual. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): I was in the unfortunate situation, on Tuesday in my Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): housing market renewal Westminster Hall debate, of Following on from the point raised by the right hon. having before me a Minister who was not able adequately Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight), the Leader of to answer the debate. He was clearly out of his depth the House is aware that since the Whitsun pre-recess and referred to very serious issues experienced by my Adjournment debate two months ago, the Backbench constituents as sob stories. My hon. Friend the Member Business Committee has been given precisely one day to for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey), asked the allocate to debate on the Floor of the House holding Minister to withdraw his comments, and he did not. 487 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 488

Realising that he had made a mistake, the Minister got Members of the House have, in their constituency, pub his civil servants to doctor the record, which, two days landlords who have faced difficulties negotiating with later, has still not been corrected—all while the Minister their pubcos. I will draw to the attention of relevant for Housing and Local Government, who should have Ministers in both the Department for Communities and been answering the debate, was tweeting about a round-table Local Government and the Department for Business, discussion in his Department just five minutes down the Innovation and Skills the fact that the period has now road. To ensure that those mistakes do not happen expired, and ask them to consider whether legislation is again, will the Leader of the House ensure that the now necessary to rebalance the terms of trade between relevant Minister answers the very real concerns of our tenants and landlords. constituents that we articulate and debate? Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): I was fortunate enough Sir George Young: I understand that the debate was to accompany Sergeant James Main and the Respect replied to by a Minister from that Department who has team to see at first hand the work they are doing in responsibilities for housing, and I am sure that he Scunthorpe to reduce antisocial behaviour by young discharged his responsibilities adequately. The hon. Lady people. May we have a debate in the House on the very mentioned doctoring the record; it is not, so far as I am good work the police have done in recent years to aware, possible to doctor the record. The Hansard Reporters reduce youth crime? report faithfully that which is said. Sir George Young: I do not know whether the hon. Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Can consideration be Gentleman applied for a debate on the pre-recess given to a debate on the future of animal experimentation, Adjournment, which would have provided an opportunity particularly in light of the latest statistics, which show for such a debate. Otherwise, there will be an opportunity that in 2010, the number of experiments increased at Home Office questions in September to highlight the by 3%? excellent work being done to reduce antisocial behaviour in his constituency. Sir George Young: There will be an opportunity to ask Ministers in the Home Office questions about the James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): number of experiments. I simply add that the experiments May we have a debate on transparency in Government? are often necessary. If medicines that have life-saving If we are serious about reforming public services, my properties are to be brought on to the market, they need constituents require data at a deep level, for example on to be adequately tested to ensure that they are safe. We GPs’ clinical performance, if they are truly to be able to must get the right balance and use animals only where make choices about local public services. there is no alternative.

Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab): Sir George Young: My hon. Friend will know that the Has the Leader of the House had the opportunity to see Prime Minister wrote to all Ministers earlier this month the latest National Audit Office report on the Independent committing us to publish key data on the NHS, schools, Parliamentary Standards Authority, and in particular criminal courts and transport. This represents the most has he read that 91% of all Members asked now believe ambitious open data agenda of any Government anywhere that they are subsidising their job? Could he raise that in the world and will help to drive up standards in with IPSA and explore the reasons why that is? exactly the way my hon. Friend describes.

Sir George Young: I have read the report, and the Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): The Leader hon. Gentleman will know that IPSA gave evidence to of the House knows that regular statements are made the Public Accounts Committee earlier this week. The about the situation in Libya, but it is some time since we House has resolved to set up a committee to look at the have had a substantive debate with an opportunity to legislation under which IPSA was established, and I am put the motion to a vote. Given the duration of the sure that that committee will be happy to take evidence conflict and the issues that are of concern, will he from the hon. Gentleman. I am sure that IPSA will also discuss with Government colleagues the possibility of take on board his comments. I think it quite wrong that having another debate on the situation in Libya and the Members should have to dig into their own pockets to long-term prospects? carry out their responsibilities to their constituents and the House. Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman will know that we have made regular statements on Libya, and Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): The save indeed on Afghanistan and Iraq, and on one or two the pub group was delighted when the coalition Government occasions we have, exceptionally, provided time for a agreed to stick to the plan put in place for pub company debate. There will be an opportunity next Tuesday in reform by the previous Government, based on the excellent Foreign and Commonwealth Office questions to press Select Committee recommendations. The deadline is Ministers about the latest situation in Libya, and no now up, and it is clear that pub companies have not doubt the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire done what was asked of them, so may we have a debate (Natascha Engel), who chairs the Backbench Business on that important matter, and a statutory code with a Committee, will have heard the suggestion for a debate. genuine free-of-tie option? Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): May we have a debate Sir George Young: I commend my hon. Friend on his on the Laffer curve and petrol taxes, because figures activity on the issue; in the previous Parliament, he from the AA show that the Treasury received £637 million initiated a number of debates on it. I am sure that all less in revenue from petrol taxes than in the equivalent 489 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 490

[Robert Halfon] debate and then break it within a matter of weeks without coming to the House to explain himself, and period three years ago? Will my right hon. Friend make will he ensure that the Minister answers for this issue in representations to the Treasury to ensure that we do not the House before it rises for the summer recess? raise petrol taxes next January? Sir George Young: I take the right hon. Gentleman’s Sir George Young: As someone with an economics point seriously. He and I have a mutual interest in degree, I am always happy to debate the Laffer curve. housing matters and I know how important security of The fair fuel stabilizer means that fuel duty will rise by tenure is to tenants. He will understand that I would like inflation only when oil prices are high. As he knows, the to make some inquiries about the exchange that has measures we have already taken mean that pump prices taken place, as I do not keep myself as up to date on are about 6p a litre lower than they would have been housing matters as I used to, but I will convey his had we simply carried forward the previous Government’s concerns to my right hon. Friend the Minister and see plans. We are also encouraging retailers wherever possible whether we can get a reply to him addressing those to pass on savings to consumers as quickly as possible. concerns before the House rises.

Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Will the Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con): Sixteen- Leader of the House update the House on whether year old Hayley Bates from Biddulph was killed in a there has been any change in the policy on meetings of road traffic accident last year. Her parents have recently the Northern Ireland Grand Committee and will he discovered that a Facebook page has been created called undertake to discuss with the Secretary of State for “Hayley Smash Nissan”, displaying shocking and disgusting Northern Ireland an early meeting of the Committee images relating to Hayley and the accident. Will the after the summer recess? Leader of the House find time for a debate on this important issue so that we can determine what we can Sir George Young: I am grateful to the right hon. do to protect other families from this shocking crime? Gentleman and happy to have those discussions with the Secretary of State about the Northern Ireland Grand Sir George Young: This is a horrifying case and our Committee and report back to him. sympathies go out to the family and friends. I know that it can cause great distress if these incidents are mishandled. Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): Network Rail has I will raise the points my hon. Friend has just made with given an abysmal performance, missing eight out of the relevant Ministers and ask them to write to her. 10 of its own targets. Surely it is time we had a debate on that, given the impact it has on First Capital Connect, Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): other train lines and commuters in my constituency. Has the right hon. Gentleman seen early-day motion 2070, which stands in my name and those of several Sir George Young: I hope that my hon. Friend will other hon. Members? apply for an Adjournment debate in Westminster Hall, [That this House notes that previous Prime Ministers, or indeed on the Floor of the House. Network Rail including Edward Heath, Margaret Thatcher and John needs to be made much more accountable than it is at Major, were meticulous in replying personally to letters the moment, and its corporate governance structure is from hon. and right hon. Members; and further notes the obscure to say the least. If we get that right, we will be present Prime Minister does not.] better able to hold it to account on the specific issues she mentions. May we have a debate so that the Prime Minister can come to House and explain whether he feels that he is Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): more important than his predecessors, or is just too In a Westminster Hall debate on 28 June, the Minister lazy? for Housing and Local Government, speaking about his new fixed-term social housing tenancies, said: Sir George Young: I understand the right hon. “I am being clear, in all our language and in the tenancy Gentleman’s concern. I think I am right in saying that standards that we will put in place, that two years is to be there have been occasions when, having written to a considered as an exceptional circumstance, and that at least five Prime Minister, I have received a reply from someone years would be the norm.”—[Official Report, 28 June 2011; else, which I do not think is wholly unusual. However, Vol. 530, c. 212WH.] in view of the length of time that the right hon. Gentleman Because some of us are a little cynical about Government has been in the House and the fact that he is a Privy pledges on “exceptional circumstances” following our Counsellor, I will raise the matter with the Prime Minister experiences with higher education fees, I pressed the and see whether any changes are necessary in his Minister on this point and was assured that there would correspondence office. be provision in the regulations to be issued by the Government. The Leader of the House will not be at all Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): Select surprised at my horror when I saw the draft regulations Committees will have a vital role in getting to the truth appear less than two weeks later with no such provision behind the allegations of phone hacking and other and, even more so, when I saw a copy of a letter sent by corrupt practices, but in modern times this place has the Minister to the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy not used criminal sanctions against witnesses who lie to Lefroy), who had secured the debate, stating that he had Select Committees. In the light of the inquiries announced no intention of giving effect to this pledge. Will the this week and the public interest, would it be possible to Leader of the House confirm that it is completely out of have an urgent debate when the House returns in September order for a Minister to give a pledge in a parliamentary on why this is? 491 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 492

Sir George Young: If a Select Committee feels that not apply to the press. I know that the Prime Minister there has been a contempt, the procedure is that it will take on board the suggestions that have been made makes a report to the House and then the Speaker about changing the terms of reference, and we will decides whether to give it priority, and if he does it is consider that before final decisions are made. put on the Order Paper and referred to the Standards and Privileges Committee. If that Committee finds that John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): On there has been a contempt, it has at its disposal a wide Tuesday, I raised under a point of order a concern that range of penalties, including fines. the Ministry of Justice has written to all chief probation officers announcing the commencement of the privatisation Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Wrong! of probation services. That was done without any statement to the House whatsoever. On Wednesday, there was a Sir George Young: It is entirely a matter for the written statement to the House that dealt with probation Standards and Privileges Committee, and ultimately the services but also announced the closure of two prisons House, what sanctions should then be applied to anyone and the privatisation of a range of other prisons. May I who has committed a contempt. suggest to the Leader of the House that that warranted an oral statement to the House, and ask that a Minister Mr Speaker: Mr Chris Bryant. attend for that purpose next week? It is important that we discuss this issue, because it is the most significant Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Thank you, Mr Speaker; change in the criminal justice service over the past you are very cheeky. decade. If we cannot have a statement to the House, As I understand it, the Deputy Serjeant at Arms has may we have a debate in Government time in early already served the summons on the lawyers of the two September? Murdochs, and as I understand it, there is no bar on foreign nationals being summoned. Let me make a Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman referred to suggestion to the Leader of the House. There is a the written ministerial statement. We are committed degree of urgency about this. Parliament is going into to delivering reform in our public services, and we recess next Tuesday, and the Select Committee is only want to improve efficiency and effectiveness in going to meet on Tuesday. If the Murdochs still refuse outcomes for victims, offenders and the wider to come next Tuesday, an alternative route would be for community. On the question of whether the matter is him to table an emergency motion on Monday to dealt with in a written statement or an oral statement, I require the Serjeant at Arms to bring the Murdochs understand his point, but the Government must also either to the Bar of the House or to the Committee. I have regard for the business of the House. Wednesday— think that he would have the support of the whole yesterday—was an Opposition day with a lot of important House in doing so. business, and I am not sure what the reaction would have been if we had had yet another statement, compressing Sir George Young: I think I would like to take some the business even further. We will of course always look advice before I go down that particular route. The at the balance between written and oral statements, but position is that if a witness fails to attend when summoned, in this particular case I think we were right to do what the Committee reports the matter to the House and it is we did. then for the House to decide what further action to take. As I said, there has not been a case of that kind for some considerable time. The House can order a witness Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): Will the Leader of the to attend a Committee; apparently this has not happened House follow me in condemning the appalling bombings since 1920. I would like to take some advice on the that took place in Mumbai yesterday, which resulted in rather dramatic course of action that the hon. Gentleman 17 deaths? In particular, does he agree that at this very has recommended to me, whatever the consequences difficult time for India, this House and Britain should might be with regard to News International. stand firm in its support of India?

Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): With regard to the Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. terms of reference for the Leveson inquiry, will my right The whole House will want to send its sympathy to the hon. Friend make a note of early-day motion 2088, friends and relatives of those who lost their lives in which is signed by 14 Select Committee Chairmen from these terrorist atrocities. The Foreign Office consular all three main parties, the chairmen of the 1922 committee team is already in Mumbai providing consular support and the parliamentary Labour party, and representatives to any British nationals who may have been caught up of the Northern Ireland party and Scottish national in these events. We are working very closely with the party which lead the devolved Assemblies, and has been Indian authorities, and we are committed to working passed on to No. 10? It proposes that the terms of with the Indian Government and our allies to combat reference of the Leveson inquiry should the threat from terrorism in all its forms. “be extended to the whole media, including sound, visual and social media, and include blagging and other unethical or illegal Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): We have only two sitting practices” days left, and it is important that this House is reported and not be confined to phone hacking. to on the progress of the Leveson inquiry in terms of securing evidence. In response to my right hon. Friend Sir George Young: My hon. Friend made this point in the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) yesterday’s exchanges. Of course, the broadcasting media on Monday, News International said that if he would already have their own statutory regulation that does give it the details of his complaint, it would investigate 493 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 494

[Clive Efford] powers of a Select Committee in calling people to give evidence? In the 10 years in which I was Chair of the it. For us, that is not good enough. It is the police who Education Committee, the situation was never really should carry out that investigation, or the inquiry. All clear, and it seems to be totally unfair. People such as the information should be made available and secured the rich, the famous and celebrities used to evade us—we now. We need a statement before the recess in order to never managed to get Jamie Oliver to give evidence. We understand what progress is being made on securing sometimes used to brag that we had this power—at one that evidence. stage, on the basis of that threat, I forced the National Union of Teachers to come and give evidence—but it Sir George Young: The Prime Minister dealt with this was never clear and precise what it was and who we in his statement yesterday. It is a criminal offence to could call. destroy documents when a criminal investigation is under way. Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman will know that under the previous Administration there was a Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): When does Joint Committee on Parliamentary Privilege. When it the Leader of the House envisage our being able to reported in 1999, it recommended that failure to appear debate the opening up off public services outlined in the before a Select Committee should be a criminal offence. White Paper this week? No doubt parish councils and The Administration whom he supported never took communities across the country, as well as in Great that Committee’s recommendations forward. We are Yarmouth, are excited about the opportunities that this committed to introducing a draft privilege Bill that will may give them to be more in control of their destiny. be based on the recommendations of the 1999 Joint Committee report. I therefore hope that we can begin to Sir George Young: I am delighted that there is an find a solution to the uncertainty to which he refers. appetite in Great Yarmouth to take forward the agenda In reference to an earlier question, I am advised that that the Minister of State, Cabinet Office outlined on it is doubtful whether the House can any longer impose Monday with the White Paper. We want to give everyone a fine; this was last done in 1666. However, that could the choice of helping to improve and control the services be addressed in the draft Bill. they receive and to end the big Government, top-down way of running public services. I hope that it will be possible to have a debate at some point in future to Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): In areas as diverse as explain how we plan to take this agenda forward. energy-intensive industries and children with myalgic encephalomyelitis, the issues cross two or more Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): Departments, whereas debates are traditionally answered May we have a debate on patients’ rights in the national by one Department. Will the Leader of the House health service? My constituents, Frances and Magdalen investigate how cross-departmental issues can be better McAleavy, have been removed from the doctors’ list at covered by this House in future? their GP surgery. They have not moved home. Frances McAleavy is 75 years old and has been with this GP Sir George Young: The hon. Gentleman may know practice since she was five months old in 1936. Will the that in the last Parliament, we had cross-cutting questions Government look for more protection for patients in in Westminster Hall. The issues that he raises might such situations? therefore be dealt with by the House. I think I am right to say that that experiment was not an outstanding Sir George Young: I am sorry to hear of the problems success and that that is why it lapsed. It might be worth that confront the hon. Gentleman’s constituents. There looking at again, and perhaps the Procedure Committee will be an opportunity to touch on some of these issues or the Backbench Business Committee could do that. when we debate the remaining stages of the Health and Social Care Bill, but in the meantime I will draw his Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): The recent remarks to the attention of my right hon. Friend the announcements of huge increases in gas and electricity Secretary of State for Health. prices have left many of my constituents anxious about how they will get through the next winter. They also feel Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): The recently published angry and ripped off because Ofgem does not seem to accounts of S4C, the Welsh fourth channel, showed that be able to manage the small number of energy companies, the interim chief executive was paid a pro rata salary of which are making excessive profits. Can we have an £212,000. Is it possible to have a debate in the House urgent debate on the energy industry and price rises, about how a public body such as S4C continues to and can it be held in the autumn before this issue prioritise high salaries at the expense of front-line services becomes a winter crisis? such as programming? Sir George Young: The hon. Lady may know that Sir George Young: I understand the concern that my when my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for hon. Friend has expressed. I should like to share it with Energy and Climate Change made his statement on the Welsh Assembly, if that is the appropriate department, electricity market reform on Tuesday, the issues that she or with one of my ministerial colleagues, and I will let has just touched on, such as how we tackle fuel poverty, him have a reply as soon as possible. were raised. He outlined the measures that are available through the Department for Work and Pensions to help Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): May those on low incomes to meet their fuel bills. She will I reinforce the fact that this is a unique opportunity for also know that the green deal is going through the the House to make very clear the responsibilities and House at the moment, which will enable people at no 495 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 496 cost to themselves to have measures introduced to their Sir George Young: I think that the OBR was looking home to reduce their electricity bills. We are working on ahead many decades and outlining the impact of increased a range of other initiatives. I would welcome such a longevity on the national health service and pensions. It debate, but it would again fall to the Backbench Business said that if nothing else was done, that might be a Committee to find time for it. consequence. For the hon. Gentleman to attribute that long-range forecast to anything we have done in the Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): Will the past 14 months is heroic. To minimise the impact on the Leader of the House agree to have a debate on jobs? In public finances of the sort of demographic changes that one year, three out of every four jobs went to foreign I have outlined, we have increased the state retirement workers. That seems to substantiate the comments of age and moved from the retail prices index to the my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work consumer prices index. We are therefore taking steps and Pensions. Does that not demonstrate why we must that hopefully will reduce the necessity for an increase be stronger on employment for Britons? in income tax.

Sir George Young: It is very important that as the Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con): Can economy recovers and the 900,000 jobs are created, as we have a debate on the NHS, and specifically on the forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility, more measures the Government are taking to reduce the people who are already here have the skills to apply for number of NHS managers? and secure those jobs. Part of the agenda of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Sir George Young: Yes; we can have two debates on is to achieve the objective, through the Work programme, the NHS when we come back in September. Since the of enabling more people who are already here, perhaps general election, there are 2,500 more doctors, 200 more the long-term unemployed, to have access to the new nurses and 2,500 fewer managers. The situation may jobs, rather than having to import people to do them. have changed even more by the time we return.

Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): Given that the Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I have been working Government launched what was described as a six-month with and on behalf of my constituent, Miriam Khan, review of our reserve forces on 19 October last year, whose mother was tragically murdered. The chief suspect, does the Leader of the House agree that this House Miriam’s father, escaped justice by fleeing to Pakistan, should have the opportunity to digest and discuss the where he lives to this day. The Pakistani authorities are findings of that important review before the recess? aware of this case, and sadly there are many similar cases around the country. Can the Leader of the House Sir George Young: I will convey to my right hon. secure a debate or at least a ministerial statement about Friend the Secretary of State for Defence the strong the hope for an extradition agreement between this view of the hon. Gentleman that we should have a country and Pakistan? report on the Territorial Army and reserves review. My Sir George Young: There will be an opportunity on right hon. Friend hopes to keep the House up to date on Tuesday to cross-question Foreign and Commonwealth a number of issues before we rise, such as the basing Office Ministers about our relationship with Pakistan review. I will see whether this matter might be included and extradition. In the meantime, I will raise the case in such a statement. with Ministers. I quite understand the distress of the hon. Gentleman’s constituent, Miriam Khan, and her Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): There anxiety to see that whoever committed this murder is has been a correlation between the rise in the gold price brought to justice. over the past few years and the number of gold thefts in my constituency. The police seem to have a particular Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con): Given the roll-out problem in tracing stolen jewellery. Will the Leader of of the academies programme, does the Leader of the the House find time for a debate on the individual House agree that it would be timely to have a debate on registration of gold dealers, which would require people the Floor of the House on academies and their progress? who sell gold to provide personal identification? That would help the police to detect and prevent these crimes. Sir George Young: I would very much welcome such a debate to draw attention to the huge increase in the Sir George Young: I am sorry to hear of the increase number of academies under this Government, from 203 in burglaries in Wolverhampton now that the price of in May 2010 to 801 in July this year, and the many more gold has gone up. I would like to touch base with my that are in the pipeline. Perhaps my hon. Friend would right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, go to the Backbench Business Committee and put in a Innovation and Skills to see whether such a registration bid for such a debate. scheme might be cost-effective in reducing the incidents of such burglaries or tracing those responsible for carrying Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Certain elements them out. in our constitution are well represented in the Palace of Westminster with statues, portraits and stained-glass Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I was windows, but there is almost a total absence of memorials astonished to read in one of today’s papers that the to progressive groups, such as the Chartists and the independent Office for Budget Responsibility is predicting Tolpuddle martyrs, that did so much to shape all that is that income tax might have to rise by 12p in the pound. best in our modern democracy. Can we debate early-day If things have got that bad after only 12 months of motion 2067, which suggests that we represent, for a coalition Government, should the Chancellor not make start, the sacrifice of the Newport Chartists of 1839, a statement before the summer recess? 20 of whom died in what they called “a noble cause”? 497 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 498

[Paul Flynn] Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): I hope that the Leader of the House, his deputy and [That this House salutes the work of the Head of State; most importantly his courteous and professional staff notes that the role of royalty is commemorated extensively have a good rest. throughout the Palace of Westminster; regrets that there Further to the question asked by my hon. Friend the are few, if any, portrayals of heroic work for democracy Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis), given the over recent centuries; believes that the work and sacrifices huge national interest in the basing announcement that of Chartists, and many other progressive movements, is due very shortly, can the Leader of the House confirm should be honoured and celebrated by depictions of events that the Secretary of State for Defence will come to the in their proud histories.] House on Monday and make that announcement rather than slipping it out either on Tuesday or in written Sir George Young: It is right that we have statues in form? the Palace of Westminster that remind us of our traditions and the roots of our democracy. I think that whether Sir George Young: I commend the hon. Gentleman and where new statues are erected are matters for the for his tenacity on this subject. My right hon. Friend House of Commons Commission. If the hon. Gentleman certainly plans to update the House on the basing would like me to raise the issue on the Commission’s review before we rise for the summer recess. agenda, I would be happy so to do. Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): The Government Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): Can we have can be rightly proud that we have done more in 13 months a debate on school discipline? Teachers, parents and than the Labour party did to compensate victims of the pupils in my constituency tell me that the education Equitable Life scandal. However, there remains one reform they most want to see is the introduction of group of people—the pre-September 1992 annuitants—who measures to ensure that the vast majority of young are trapped and vulnerable, and their cases are not even people who want to learn are not disrupted by the small being assessed. Will my right hon. Friend find time to minority who do not. lean on the Treasury and encourage it to come forward with a statement on the progress of payments so far, so Sir George Young: We have published new guidance that we can question it on what will be done for that for teachers, which is greatly reduced in volume from small group of people? 600 pages to 52. It restores adult authority to the classroom and makes it clear that teachers have a legal Sir George Young: My experience of leaning on the power to use reasonable force to remove a pupil who is Treasury is that it tends to lean back, but I am very disrupting a lesson or to prevent a child from leaving a happy to raise with my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary classroom. I hope that that sets a new tone in the to the Treasury the issue of those annuitants. Speaking classroom and enables teachers to teach and children to from memory, I think the finding of the ombudsman learn. was that the regulatory failure began after 1992, which may be why those who had policies before 1992 were excluded from compensation. None the less, I will raise Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Given that a the matter with my hon. Friend the Financial Secretary rating agency has suspended its classification of US and ask him to write to my hon. Friend the Member for sovereign debt pending a review and given the problems Harrow East (Bob Blackman). in the Italian bond market and the rest of the eurozone, can we have a debate on the adequacy of reserving Jon Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): Does the Leader policy in UK banks before, rather than after, any economic of the House share my disappointment that the Department disaster? for Business, Innovation and Skills has still not published the equality impact assessment of cuts to the provision Sir George Young: The UK banks have been stress of English for speakers of other language? He will be tested. I cannot offer the hon. Gentleman the sort of aware that many Members are seeking to raise the issue debate that he has asked for. However, he reminds the of ESOL provision in Tuesday’s Adjournment debate. House of the importance of having adequate fiscal Will he ensure that the assessment is published by then policies to ensure that we do not suffer the same problems and not sneaked out over the summer recess? as Greece, Portugal, Ireland and other countries. Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): With the growing concern, and I believe that the matter was raised a few popularity of academies in mind, may we have a debate moments ago during questions to BIS Ministers. They about the school funding formula, particularly to raise will publish the document to which he refers as soon as the question of disparities in funding for local authorities, possible. and to mention the need to get money where it needs to be—the schools and the pupils? Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): This year has been an amazing one for the scrutiny of Parliament, Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is right: the funding the best in decades. That is down partly to the hon. regime for academies is no longer appropriate. It was Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel), designed at a time when there were relatively few academies, the Back Bencher of the year, who chairs the Backbench and now there are many more. My right hon. Friend the Business Committee; partly to the shadow Leader of Secretary of State for Education is consulting on a new the House, who has done such a good job in parliamentary funding regime for academies, which I hope will address terms; partly to you, Mr Speaker, for your leadership the issues to which my hon. Friend refers. from the Chair; partly to the star Parliamentary Private 499 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 500

Secretary to the Leader of the House, my hon. Friend Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): My question the Member for Henley (John Howell), who gives us a follows the answer given to my hon. Friend the Member lot of suggestions, none of which I take; and partly to for North West Durham (Pat Glass). A little over a the Deputy Leader of the House, who has gone from month ago, Scottish Power announced an energy price poacher to gamekeeper very easily. Of course, it is increase of 20%, I asked the Leader of the House for an mainly down to the Leader of the House, who, when I urgent statement from the Energy Secretary detailing ask him a question, always gives a full, frank and honest what discussions he had had with energy suppliers, and answer, but never to the question that I asked. what measures would be taken to reduce the impact on To move things forward a little, has the Leader of the hard-working families right across the country. Given House had a chance to ask the Chief Whip whether, in that this week British Gas has announced that gas the first week back, the Government are going to support prices will increase by 18% and electricity prices by my private Member’s Bill, which would just slightly 16%—perhaps a cynical attempt to hide bad news when amend the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975? everyone is focusing on the hacking scandal—may we now have an urgent statement from the Energy Secretary Sir George Young: If my hon. Friend is referring to and not, as the Leader of the House suggested, a some personal vendetta that he has with the Whips Backbench Business Committee debate? Office, and a Bill that I think would disqualify the Whips from being Members of Parliament, I have to Sir George Young: My right hon. Friend the Energy say that I have a very good relationship with the Chief Secretary made a statement on electricity market reform Whip and would not be minded to support any measure on Tuesday, and he addressed precisely the concerns that removed from me the pleasure of having his company that the hon. Gentleman expresses. He outlined the next to me on the Front Bench at every Prime Minister’s measures that we were taking to provide security of questions. supply and stability of prices in future. He was asked many questions about the rising cost of fuel, and he Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): In a week outlined the measures that the Government were taking when the House has rightly been focused on the phone to address it. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman looks in hacking scandal, there is of course an emerging Hansard, where he will find an answer to some of the humanitarian crisis in east Africa, with thousands upon questions that he has raised. thousands of people without access to adequate food and water. Will the Leader of the House monitor the Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Later this year, private situation over the summer recess and, if necessary, find sewers will be transferred to water and sewerage companies, parliamentary time to debate the UK’s response to the and many householders will be relieved of concerns tragedy? about future maintenance bills. May we have a debate to consider the implementation of the change, so that Sir George Young: It is an important issue, and my we can acknowledge the work of those who have right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International campaigned on the issue, including the all-party group Development made a statement about our aid policy on sewers and sewerage, previous Members for Rugby not so very long ago. There were also questions to and my constituent Pam Brockway of Woodlands residents DFID Ministers yesterday. Of course we will keep the association? humanitarian crisis under review. I cannot promise that the House will be recalled if there is any deterioration, Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is quite right that but we will do all we can to keep Members in the picture later this year, responsibility for private sewers connected on the steps that the UK is taking to reduce the human to the mains will transfer from householders to the suffering. water authorities. That is a welcome step forward that will remove the incidence of householders suddenly Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): being confronted with huge bills for sewers for which May I ask the Leader of the House for an urgent debate they simply did not think they had any responsibility at on the Floor of the House on the quality of care all. I commend those who campaigned for that enlightened provided at Medway Maritime hospital? An independent measure. It will have an impact of roughly £5 on the report found that there were actions that could be bills that people pay, but I think that is an acceptable construed as bullying of a senior surgeon, Mr Mufti, price to pay for the security of mind that goes with the the former medical director at the NHS trust. Since policy. then, other professionals at the hospital have contacted my office to say that they have encountered such behaviour. Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): That followed a recent survey showing that one in five Earlier, in response to my hon. Friend the Member for workers at Medway hospital had encountered harassment Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman), the Leader of the House or been abused. My constituents are very concerned outlined the position with regard to criminal sanctions about the implications that that may have for patient care. for contempt of the House and the proposal of the Joint Committee on Parliamentary Privilege in 1999. I Sir George Young: Bullying and harassment of NHS am sure that it is totally coincidental, but those were the staff by patients, members of the public or other staff is very points that I made in a letter that I copied to the wholly unacceptable, and the NHS constitution specifically Prime Minister and the Leader of the House yesterday. refers to measures that should be taken to reduce bullying. However, we are living in a very fast-moving world. Will I understand that the Medway trust is aware of the the Leader of the House examine the two specific concerns to which my hon. Friend refers, and is having provisions made in the 1999 report, and incorporate discussions with the trade unions to come up with a them into emergency legislation that I am sure would policy that reduces such incidents to a bare minimum. command support from both sides of the House? 501 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 502

Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s Sir George Young: I am sorry to hear of my hon. concern. He is asking us to do as an emergency something Friend’s problems. I understand that the director of that the previous Administration had 11 years to do operations at IPSA has offered a meeting with my hon. and did absolutely nothing about. The answer that I Friend, which I hope addresses his particular concerns. gave the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) As he knows, we have just set up a Committee to look at earlier was that we are considering a draft parliamentary the legislation that covers IPSA. He will have an opportunity privilege Bill. I welcome the suggestion of the hon. to feed in to the work of that Committee his suggestions Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) that as to how we might make future changes. contempt should be made a criminal offence, as suggested in the 1999 report. I can assure him that it will be Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Can the Leader considered, and he will have a chance to feed his comments of the House imagine the reaction there would have into future consultation on the Bill. been if Tony Hayward, the then chief executive officer of BP, refused to appear before that congressional Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): I think everyone in the committee in the US? My hon. Friend the Member for House is agreed that our pensions should be no different Rhondda (Chris Bryant) has pointed out to the Leader in principle from the pensions of others in the public of the House that he has the power to introduce a sector. Will my right hon. Friend tell us when the House motion that would require the witnesses who are refusing will have an opportunity to make it clear that we to come to the Culture, Media and Sport Committee to consider that our pensions should be reformed in line attend, and for the Serjeant at Arms to go and fetch with the principles set out in the Hutton report, and them. Will he at least pledge today, on the Floor of the when will he table a motion that will unequivocally pass House, that he will use whatever powers are at his responsibility for MPs’ pensions to the Independent disposal to ensure that those witnesses turn up next Parliamentary Standards Authority? week?

Sir George Young: My hon. Friend will know that a Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s written ministerial statement today outlines the concern. My view is that that is a matter for the House Government’s position on MPs’ pensions, which is exactly rather than for the Government. as my hon. Friend describes. We should be treated no differently from other public servants, and I will table a Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): When motion before the House rises, but for debate subsequently, does the Leader of the House expect my right hon. that asks the House to endorse that position. It will also Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food propose that we transfer to IPSA responsibility for a and Rural Affairs to make a statement on tuberculosis? new pension scheme for MPs. That motion will reassert Twenty-five thousand cattle a year are being slaughtered, the importance of the independent determination of and it costs £100 million of taxpayers’ money, and yet MPs’ remuneration. that pall of disease out there in the wildlife is not being tackled. A statement from the Secretary of State is Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): The Scottish urgent. National party has decided to impose huge tuition fees on English students who go to Scottish universities. Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s Given that the SNP previously called those tuition fees concern. TB causes real difficulties for farmers in many both “discriminatory” and “anti-English”, and that it parts of the country. My right hon. Friend the Secretary has said that the of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has been consulting on a range of options to tackle that “added cost of a 4 year degree means we won’t see English disease. I cannot promise an immediate response from students going to Scottish Universities”, her, but I will convey my hon. Friend’s interest and see may we have an urgent debate on the impact that those whether we can get a reply on the timing of any Government politically motivated policies, which are designed to announcement as soon as possible. promote a separatist agenda, will have on both English students and our wonderful Scottish universities? Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): Earlier this week, I was surprised and just a little shocked to Sir George Young: I gather that that matter was learn from the National House-Building Council that raised during Business, Innovation and Skills questions. only one house was started in my constituency in the How the SNP Executive manages tuition fees is a matter last six months for which figures are available. With the for them. What the hon. Gentleman describes is a massive cut in grant funding for affordable housing, consequence of devolution. and with the shambles that appears to be developing over the Government’s so-called affordable rents policy, Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): I am loth to may we have an early debate, preferably in Government ask the Leader of the House this question just before time, in September, to discuss the future of affordable the recess, but may we have a debate on IPSA? Earlier housing in this country? this week I spoke to the operations team at IPSA, which tells me that it now processes and pays claims, on Sir George Young: I understand that there was a average, in six or seven days, but in my experience, it debate on housing market renewal on Tuesday in takes twice that long, which is in breach of its service Westminster Hall. I hope the hon. Gentleman welcomes level targets, and places a real difficulty on some Members the measures announced in the Budget to help first-time in managing their cash flow. May we therefore discuss buyers, and that he recognises that house building starts how we can help IPSA to improve those service levels, fell to an all-time record under the Administration so that it can help us to do our job? whom he supported. 503 Business of the House14 JULY 2011 Business of the House 504

David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): The Leader very concerned about the place they call home. May we of the House will be aware that four times now, Opposition have a proper debate on this topic directly on our return Members have objected to the setting up of the Committee in September? to scrutinise the draft Financial Services Bill. Does he know what they have against better scrutiny of financial Sir George Young: There will be an opportunity on services, and in particular why they do not want that our return in September to discuss health-related issues Committee to start its important work? during debate on the remaining stages of the Health and Social Care Bill. The hon. Gentleman will also have Sir George Young: I share my hon. Friend’s concern heard the Minister of State, Department of Health, my that we have been unable to establish that Joint Committee hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul to look at the draft Financial Services Bill. I very much Burstow), reply to an urgent question on Tuesday following hope that when the motion comes before the House Health questions. Our primary concern remains the later today, it will be possible to make progress and set welfare of the residents. Whatever the outcome, no one up that Committee. I cannot endorse what has happened will find themselves homeless or without care, and we on the Order Paper, where Members of one political party are working closely with the Local Government Association, have sought to interfere with the nominations of another. the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services and the Care Quality Commission to ensure that Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): appropriate arrangements are in place in the event of With the publication this morning of the national crime any need. statistics showing that burglaries have gone up 14%, and that domestic violence, worryingly, has gone up Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): May we 35%, may we have a debate on the risks that the Government haveadebateontheYorkshire Post “Fair Deal for are taking with the 20% cuts to the police force and on Yorkshire” campaign, particularly regarding the need the 12,000 police officers who will lose their jobs? for a fair deal on tourism funding between Yorkshire and Scotland, and the huge benefits of locating the Sir George Young: I understand where the hon. Lady green investment bank in Leeds? is coming from on this, but I must just remind her that before the last election, the then Home Secretary made Sir George Young: My hon. Friend might be opening it absolutely clear that he could give no guarantee at all a bidding war in stating that he wants the green investment that the number of police officers would not be reduced bank to be located in Leeds—I am sure that other hon. were the Labour party to be re-elected. A Labour Members think it could be located in their constituencies. Government would have been confronted by the same I would have thought that the benefits of Yorkshire sorts of decisions as this Government were, but we would speak for themselves as a holiday destination, believe that our police reforms will put more on the but I am sure that VisitBritain will do what it can to front line and enable the police to make further progress promote York, along with—I hope—Hampshire. in preventing and detecting crime.

Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): May we have a Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and statement and debate on the increasing amount of our Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): Like so many ex-servicemen, national debt? That would give the House the chance to my constituent Mr William Young has found it difficult highlight the fact that, despite all the measures being to enter the domestic labour market. May we have a taken to control public spending, because of the sheer debate on what more the Government, the armed forces size of the budget deficit bequeathed by the previous and the nation can do to help ex-service personnel as Government, the national debt will actually increase by they transition from the forces to civilian society? around £350 billion before the next election, and not decrease by that amount, which, according to a poll out Sir George Young: The purpose behind one of the key this week, seven out of 10 of the British public wrongly components of the military covenant was precisely to believe will happen. help those leaving the armed forces to develop alternative careers. One particular opportunity was to encourage Sir George Young: I listened, as I am sure my hon. them to join the teaching profession, for which many of Friend did, to my hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove them have the necessary skills. However, I will raise with (Sajid Javid) introducing a ten-minute rule Bill on the my right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary the question same theme—the size of the national debt. One reason of our progress, through the military covenant, on why that continues to increase is the very high interest finding work for those retiring from our armed forces. bill on the outstanding debt, which we inherited from the previous Government. My hon. Friend the Member Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): The number for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) will know that we have of jobseeker’s allowance claimants in the Vale of Glamorgan made some difficult decisions to reduce the pressure on has fallen by 25% over the past year and according to public finances, including bringing forward the state the latest figures, unemployment fell across the whole of retirement age, changing to the consumer prices index the UK. May we have a debate on unemployment to for benefits, and accepting Lord Hutton’s recommendations establish what policies are working best and why they to reform public service provision. I very much hope that are working in some areas better than in others? my hon. Friend agrees that what we have begun to do will help to reduce the escalating nature of national debt. Sir George Young: I am delighted to hear that unemployment has fallen in my hon. Friend’s constituency, Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): In the next few and I hope that we will continue to make progress in months, Southern Cross will be broken up. During that bringing it down. As I said a few moments ago, the period, the 30,000 residents in 400 constituencies will be Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts that there 505 Business of the House 14 JULY 2011 506

[Sir George Young] Coastguard Modernisation will be 900,000 extra jobs between now and 2015. There are encouraging signs in the labour market figures. The 1.23 pm Work programme, which has just been introduced by The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work Hammond): With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like and Pensions, is encouraging new providers into the to make a statement on the Government’s intentions for market to provide long-term jobs for those who are taking forward the process of coastguard modernisation unemployed. I hope we will make some progress there. in the light of responses received to the consultation The challenge is to help people into employment and to that ended on 5 May 2011. help the recovery. The Work programme is up and The key drivers behind the modernisation proposals running and will offer jobseekers flexible support tailored are the need to address the limited resilience of current to their needs in order to help them into employment. arrangements, distribute more effectively the work load experienced by different coastguard stations and provide Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Food prices continue enhanced opportunities for coastguard officers to develop to rise at an alarming rate across the whole of the professional skills, with pay levels reflecting enhanced United Kingdom. In the past year, they have risen by responsibilities. There is also a need to contribute to the 6.5%, whereas the overall inflation rate for June was wider deficit reduction agenda. 4.2%. Will the Leader of the House agree to a debate on an issue that affects everyone in the UK? The consultation set out proposals to create a nationally networked coastguard system with two maritime operations Sir George Young: Was the hon. Gentleman referring centres—one in the Southampton/Portsmouth area and to fuel prices? one in Aberdeen—together with a 24-hour centre at Dover and five daytime-only centres. In addition to Jim Shannon rose— delivering greater resilience and better career progression, the proposals identified ways of managing costs while Mr Speaker: Order. If clarification is required, we are still delivering high levels of service to seafarers and the happy to have it. public. The proposals also set out our commitment to increase by 32 the number of regular uniformed coastguards Jim Shannon: I said “food” prices. I am sorry for my deployed to support the front-line volunteer coastguard. accent. These drivers for change and our strategic objectives in this exercise remain unaltered, but throughout the Sir George Young: Food is every bit as important as consultation process, I have been clear that we are fuel. I cannot promise time for an early debate on food willing to listen to the views of the public, coastguard prices, but of course the Government are taking appropriate staff and other interested parties on the best way to action to try and bear down on inflation. However, for deliver the outcomes we need to achieve. More than those confronted by rising food prices, support is available 1,800 responses were received, including many from through the index-linked benefits from the Department serving coastguards. Of the total, 27 submissions suggested for Work and Pensions. specific alternative solutions, all with a reduced number of stations but with differing concepts of operations. Mr Speaker: I thank the Leader of the House, the We are very grateful to all those who responded to the shadow Leader of the House and all 62 Back-Bench consultation and to the Transport Select Committee for Members who took part in this session. also looking at the issues. This has been a model consultation, with many serious and thoughtful responses recognising the need to deliver the overall objectives but proposing alternative ways of doing so. A number of common themes emerged from the consultation responses: first, widespread acceptance, as illustrated by all the alternative solutions put forward, that change is necessary; secondly, concerns about the potential loss of local knowledge and local contacts with volunteer coastguards and other search and rescue partners; and, thirdly, concerns over how the detailed concept of operations for the MOCs and sub-centres would work in practice, particularly how a handover between a daytime centre and a 24/7 MOC would work in practice. A review of all the consultation responses has been produced under the leadership of a non-executive director of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, involving a number of serving coastguard officers and members of the Public and Commercial Services Union, and has been placed in the Library of the House. A formal response from the Government to the report of the Transport Select Committee will be provided separately. In the light of the consultation responses, the Government have now concluded that it remains right to continue with the proposals for a nationally networked 507 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 508 system with the introduction of one MOC capable of not staffed, at Dover. By moving to more efficient watch managing incidents anywhere and ensuring optimum patterns, we will still be able to offer higher pay across distribution of work load across the system. Establishing the service to reflect higher levels of responsibility, one MOC, rather than the two previously proposed, while ensuring that costs overall remain within our allows us to address concerns over local knowledge and planned funding for the coastguard as a whole. the robustness of the future concept of operations by The changes to the original consultation proposal retaining one of each of the current paired stations, that I have announced today will be the subject of a with the retained centres operating as part of the nationally further period of consultation. This will run for 12 weeks networked system 24 hours a day rather than during the from today, ending on 6 October 2011. Specifically, this daytime only. Staff in each of the current pair of includes the decision to retain Holyhead rather than stations are already familiar with, and frequently experience, Liverpool; the choice of Milford Haven rather than managing incidents in an adjacent area. Swansea; the decision to retain stations at Shetland and We have also decided that the Northern Ireland Stornoway; and the decision to operate a single maritime coastguard station at Bangor should be retained because operations centre, rather than two. These changes to of the specific requirement to manage the civil contingency our original proposals will deliver the modernised and arrangements unique to Northern Ireland and the more cost-effective service that we need for the 21st relationship with search and rescue partners in the Irish century, while also responding to the genuine concerns Republic with whom we co-ordinate closely in air sea raised during the consultation process. I therefore commend rescues in the waters around the island of Ireland. In them to the House. the light of the decision to retain one station from each pair and concerns raised about Welsh language Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): I thank communication, it has been decided to retain the Holyhead the right hon. Gentleman for his statement today, and station, rather than the one at Liverpool. In response to for giving me early sight of it. I also thank him for concerns expressed over the resilience of infrastructure coming to the House today; this is the first time that a and communication links within the Scottish islands Minister has made a statement at the Dispatch Box on and between the islands and the Scottish mainland, we this issue at any stage of this process. I must also tell have decided to retain coastguard centres in both Stornoway him, however, that it was wholly inappropriate for him and Shetland. A further review of the potential costs of to brief The Sunday Telegraph and the Sunday Mirror vacating the existing sites in Swansea and Milford Haven at the weekend, both of which reported a “senior has shown that there are no financial or operational Government source” as confirming the changes to the reasons to favour either location, and in view of my proposals. He has clearly given even more detailed Department’s already substantial levels of employment information on the fate of specific stations to regional in Swansea, we have decided to retain the coastguard newspapers and broadcasters for use this morning. Does centre at Milford Haven rather than at Swansea. he not understand that it is outrageous that our brave In summary, subject to consultation on the changes local coastguards should be hearing about their future to the previously announced approach, we will now through anonymous briefings to the press from Department proceed with the creation of a modernised coastguard for Transport officials? This is not the way to treat those service providing a nationally networked system comprising: who work to make our coastline a safer place. The one maritime operations centre in the Southampton- Secretary of State should not have sought to spin such Portsmouth area with a disaster recovery back-up facility an important announcement in advance in the way that at the Dover station, which will retain its responsibilities he chose to do. for the Channel Navigation Information Service and The changes that the Secretary of State has announced will also serve as a sub-centre; and a further eight today are a partial victory for the tireless campaigning sub-centres, all operated on a 24-hour basis, located at of coastguards up and down the country. They are the Falmouth, Milford Haven, Holyhead, Belfast, Stornoway, people who best know the level of provision needed to Shetland, Aberdeen and Humber. The stations at Clyde, keep our coastline safe. It has been an honour to meet Forth, Portland, Liverpool, Yarmouth, Brixham, Thames and hear from so many of them over the past few and Swansea will close progressively over the period months and to see at first hand their dedication. The between 2012 and 2014-15. The station at Solent will be campaign that they have fought has been based entirely replaced by a new maritime operations centre in the on their concern for the safety of the communities that Portsmouth-Southampton area. The small London station they serve, and today’s changes are a tribute to their is unaffected by these proposals. commitment and tenacity. These revised proposals will deliver the modernisation It is incredible to think that the Secretary of State required, and they are capable of delivering the same believed that the majority of our coastguard stations level of savings in the longer term as our previous should not provide round-the-clock cover. It is right proposals. They are right for the future of the coastguard that he has abandoned those plans and recognised the service. I recognise, of course, that they will none the need for stations to operate 24 hours a day, and I less represent a huge disappointment to those hon. commend him for doing so. However, today’s Members whose constituencies are affected by the proposed announcement will result in the loss of just under half closures. of all of Britain’s coastguard stations. That will be a The additional costs generated by retaining a total of devastating blow to the stations that he proposes to 10 centres overall, plus London, all operating on a close, to the coastguards, to their families and to the 24-hour basis, and the higher coastguard numbers that communities that they serve and in which they are held will be needed to do so, will be offset by operating only with such respect. one maritime operations centre, in the Southampton- These closures are driven entirely by the Government’s Portsmouth area, with a back-up centre, equipped but decision to cut the transport budget too far and too 509 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 510

[Maria Eagle] “It is fair to say that with the demise of the Nimrod we do not have the extent of search and rescue top cover that we had fast. It is incredible that the Secretary of State’s statement before.” today focused almost entirely on issues of cost, rather As a result of its own cuts, the MOD will be without than on the safety considerations that should have maritime surveillance capability after 2015, leaving a driven this review from the start. massive capacity gap that will only compound the impact The chief executive of the Maritime and Coastguard of the Secretary of State’s decision to close nearly half Agency was very clear when he appeared before the Britain’s coastguard stations. Transport Select Committee on 8 February this year. May I ask the Secretary of State to tell the House He said that he had been exactly how many jobs will be lost as a result of the “required to find 22% budget reduction in my programme between closures that he has confirmed today? What is the grade now and 31 March 2015”. and post breakdown for the jobs that will be lost? What He went on to say that the closure of coastguard estimate has been made of the cost of redundancy stations was payments? Will he agree to carry out and publish a new detailed risk assessment of the revised proposals, so “part of an overall strategy to bring my....expenditure into line that it can be considered before the period of consultation with the budget provision I have been given now for the comprehensive begins? It is difficult to see how a genuine consultation spending review.” can take place without such an assessment being carried These reforms are about cutting budgets, not about out first. Will he also ensure that this new risk assessment improving the safety of Britain’s coastline. is carried out jointly with the MOD? It is essential that All along, the proposals have been ill thought out, we have joined-up government when it comes to the careless and rushed. It was quite clear that Ministers safety of our coastline. Will he commit to coming back had already decided exactly which stations were to close to the House in person, following this further period of when the original consultation was published. The leaked consultation, rather than briefing any further changes early draft of the consultation that I was sent showed to the media—out of respect for our coastguards, if for clearly that the public were to be asked for their views no other reason? not on alternative options but on a decision that had The excellent report of the Transport Select Committee clearly already been made in the Department. Only just into these closures concluded: before publication did Ministers decide to put in the “The evidence we have received raises serious concerns that choices between Liverpool and Belfast and between safety will be jeopardised if these proposals proceed”. Shetland and Stornoway, making it clear that this was The confirmation that certain stations will remain open done for no other reason than to give the impression of and the decision to retain 24-hour cover will be welcomed, a consultation when it was nothing of the sort. but the revised set of proposals that the Secretary of Most incredible of all is the fact that no risk assessment State has set out today will not provide the reassurance was published alongside the proposals. The Select that the public need and expect. The communities served Committee found that by the stations that are to close in Clyde, Forth, Portland, “by failing to publish a risk assessment of the current plans or an Yarmouth, Brixham, Thames and Swansea, and my impact assessment of the previous round of closures until prompted, own local station in Liverpool, will be devastated at the the MCA management has badly miscalculated. It has mishandled loss of their local coastguard. The reality is that coastguards the consultation and made it appear opaque rather than clear and have seen their work loads increase in recent years, as open-minded.” our shipping lanes have become busier and they are It is clear that, had it not been for the campaign fought called out to deal with more incidents. How can the up and down the country, and the impressive expert answer be fewer operating bases? Improving the work of the Transport Select Committee—I pay tribute interoperability between the existing centres is surely to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside possible without a reduction in the number of coastguard (Mrs Ellman) for her chairmanship of that Committee— stations, with the loss of local expertise that this will Ministers would have implemented these spending review- entail. Axing one out of each paired station will lead to driven closures. a considerable loss of local knowledge; it is Throughout this process, there has been a failure by incomprehensible that staff based in Belfast will have the Secretary of State adequately to ensure joined-up the same local knowledge about Liverpool bay as the government with the Ministry of Defence, or even existing local coastguards. within his own Department, on the cumulative impact What the right hon. Gentleman must do now is not of the planned cuts. The coastguard station closures are have a consultation on the changes announced today, compounded by the separate decision by his Department but have a full new consultation on the entire set of to end funding for emergency towing vessels. Let us not proposals, following a fresh risk assessment and covering forget that they were a recommendation of Lord all of the proposals across government, including from Donaldson’s inquiry into the Braer disaster. The Select the Ministry of Defence, that impact on the future Committee report found: safety of our coastline. “The decision to cease the MCA’s provision of the Emergency Towing Vessels, which was made without consultation and against Mr Hammond: I do not remember the hon. Lady the findings of an independent risk assessment, is unwise and being quite so sanctimonious about briefing during the short-sighted. It is, quite literally, inviting disaster”. years that she was in government. She says that this is a The Secretary of State failed to consider the cumulative victory for people who have protested up and down the impact of the cuts being proposed by the MOD, not country. I will tell her what it is: it is a victory for least the loss of the Nimrods and Sea King helicopters. common sense and a victory for the consultation process. The chief executive of the MCA told the Select Committee: The Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. 511 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 512

Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), will find that the coastguards at Holyhead routinely the Shipping Minister, has been around coastguard deal with operations in Liverpool bay and have a working stations up and down the country and received delegations local knowledge of the conditions in that bay. from every coastguard station and every major seafaring I believe that these proposals are a robust solution to community in the country and talked to them about deliver a future coastguard service that will be resilient, their specific concerns. Working with the professional effective and affordable into the 21st century. team at the coastguard agency, we have woven those concerns into the revised proposal that I have presented Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con): I did today. not hear an awful lot about safety in the Secretary of The hon. Lady says that she cannot believe that the State’s statement, but I did hear an awful lot about cost. original proposals I presented included the loss of round- Will my right hon. Friend please tell me why he has not the-clock cover. That is a little strange, because the already published the risk assessment relating to the proposals I presented were those that my hon. Friend proposals? A Minister told the House about three weeks the Shipping Minister found on his desk when he inherited ago in an Adjournment debate that there would be full the post in May 2010. The Labour party had failed to consultation on the new proposals, so will my right hon. present those proposals publicly for fear of dealing with Friend explain why that Minister did not say then that the fallout. the consultation would relate only to the adjustments? I recognise, of course, that the loss of a significant Will he reconsider and consult the experts—the coastguards number of local stations is a blow to those communities themselves who work at the front line of every co-ordination that host them, but it is absolutely wrong for the hon. centre around the coast—about these proposals and Lady to say that this process is driven only by the need take on board what they have to say? to save costs only, although there clearly is a need to save costs in the light of the chronic fiscal situation that Mr Hammond: I understand my hon. Friend’s specific we inherited from Labour. The fact is that the current local concerns; she has campaigned extremely hard on structure of the coastguard does not reflect the technology behalf of her local community and its concerns. Of or the concept of operations current today. We have to course safety is paramount. This whole process is about reinforce the ability to share work around the system, to making the coastguard service more resilient and more deal with fluctuations in work load and variations in effective, and creating a proper career structure that will work load between different parts of our coastline. attract and retain the quality of people we need in a I can tell the hon. Lady that risk assessments have service that, frankly, has not had a good experience of been published and, in answer to her specific question, industrial relations and personnel issues over the last a further risk assessment relating to these proposals will few years. My hon. Friend says I should consult the be published. My hon. Friend the Under-Secretary tells experts; that is precisely what we have done. My hon. me that he thinks that will be done within the next week. Friend the Under-Secretary has been around the country, talking to coastguards and has received countless I am somewhat bemused by the hon. Lady’s foray delegations here, tapping into their expert knowledge. into the area of Sea Kings and Nimrods since we are The proposals I have announced reflect that very useful talking here specifically about the coastguard control input that they have made. centres. I would be happy to talk to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, but I do not Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): Will the Secretary believe that he wishes to make any further input into of State comment on two points along the same lines as this process. questions already asked? First, with the announcement The hon. Lady asked me specifically about the total that the coastguard station on the Clyde in Greenock in job losses. The total number of uniformed coastguards my constituency is to close, I must ask the Minister will, as a result of these proposals, fall from 573 at whether he feels that safety has been compromised, present to 436 once the transformation is completed by especially on the west coast of Scotland, which is a 2014-15. That includes coastguards based in the operational particularly challenging coastline with demanding waters centres, coastguards deployed to support the front-line and a big increase in shipping in the area. Is safety on volunteer coastguard and a small number at Maritime the west coast of Scotland being compromised? Secondly, and Coastguard Agency headquarters. I cannot provide will the right hon. Gentleman comment on the number an exact breakdown of the grades of the jobs that will of job losses in my constituency that will result from the be lost, but I am happy to write to the hon. Lady and closure of this station? place a copy of my letter in the Library in the usual way. I am also quite happy to confirm that I will make a Mr Hammond: On the safety issue, the hon. Gentleman further statement, either written or oral, once the will know that the proposal in the original consultation consultation process is over. was also to close the station in the Clyde—and that If the hon. Lady had looked a little more closely at position still stands. This questioning of whether the what we are proposing, she would understand that we closure of local stations will compromise safety betrays, have responded very effectively to the central thrust of I think, a failure to understand how the coastguard the responses that we have received, which was about works and operates. What is really important is that the the loss of local knowledge and concerns about handing part of the service that receives calls and directs front-line over from daytime operations to the 24-hour marine rescue operations is effectively networked together. At operation centre. The retention of one centre from each the moment, we have what I consider in the 21st century pair does answer the local knowledge question, and the to be a frankly shocking situation whereby each coastguard example the hon. Lady gave, relating to her own station is able to communicate and share work with constituency, is ill informed since Liverpool is actually only one other coastguard station. If there is a surge of paired with Holyhead, which will now be retained. She work on the west coast, for example, due to a particular 513 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 514

[Mr Philip Hammond] it there. We have: we are retaining the station at Holyhead, which is paired with Crosby and routinely operates in weather pattern, it is impossible at the moment for that tandem with it, using the same areas of local knowledge work load to be shared with stations on the south coast, around the north Wales coast and Liverpool bay area the east coast or elsewhere in the United Kingdom. It is which both stations cover. to deliver that resilience that these proposals have been brought forward. The professionals who have evaluated Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): My them and who advise us are quite clear that this will right hon. Friend predicted huge disappointment, and enhance the resilience of the system and thus the safety in that respect at least I can agree with him. The of seafarers and coastal communities around the UK. I proposed closure of Forth in my constituency will be am quite happy to write to the hon. Gentleman specifically received with profound disappointment, not least because on the job loss issues relating to his constituency. of the unsatisfactory nature of the public meeting held by the MCA in Anstruther in February. Is my right hon. Several hon. Members rose— Friend aware that Aberdeen, which he proposes to retain, is the most expensive station in the United Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. A Kingdom—that excludes staff costs—while Forth has great many Members wish to contribute. If questions the lowest running costs in the UK? Is he also aware and answers are shorter, most of them will hopefully be that in 2010, 40% of lifeboat launches in Scotland took able to. place within Forth’s area of responsibility? Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): My right The Forth station offers value for money, and is hon. Friend will not be surprised to learn that I am increasingly busy because of the increase in leisure and disappointed that Great Yarmouth will not retain a commercial traffic in and around the River Forth. Why station. However, I have supported the modernisation on earth should it be a candidate for closure? programme from the outset. The good news is that our twin station at Humber will now be open for 24 hours, Mr Hammond: As my right hon. and learned Friend so local knowledge will be retained, but I should appreciate will appreciate, given that we have decided to retain one some information about the number of job losses at station from each pairing in order to respond to the Great Yarmouth. I know that that station is already concerns about local knowledge, there will inevitably be slightly under-resourced, but if vacancies arise at the a series of questions such as his from Members representing Humber station, will Great Yarmouth staff have an the station in each pair that has not been selected for opportunity to relocate and take their knowledge there? retention. A multi-criterion approach was adopted to the decisions about which station in each pair should be Mr Hammond: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for retained. I should be happy to explain to my right hon. the way in which he has dealt with the issue. We certainly and learned Friend the detailed logic behind the decision hope that it will be possible to transfer staff from some in this case. of the stations that are closing to some of those that are remaining open. I can tell my hon. Friend that 25 full-time Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): equivalent posts will be lost at Great Yarmouth; I can There is widespread concern at the prospect of the also save the taxpayer a stamp by telling the hon. closure of coastguard stations, especially among the Member for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie) that 31 such many people who use pleasure vessels and fishing vessels. posts will be lost at the Clyde station. Their concern matters as much as that of those in the commercial sector. I welcome the Government’s acceptance, Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): The news that in full, of the Select Committee’s recommendation of Crosby coastguard is to close comes as a bitter blow to 24-hour cover in all stations, and their acceptance of staff and to the public in my constituency and much the strong point made by the Committee about the further afield. Other Members have said the same about significance of local knowledge. However, I must ask the closures of their own coastguard stations. the Secretary of State whether he considers it credible Many will view this as a cut too far, which poses a that eight local closures will enable local knowledge and risk to public safety. Crosby has a number of experienced local team working to save the maximum number of and outstanding staff who have key relationships with lives. search and rescue staff, police officers and firefighters. They want to make the most of new technology, but Mr Hammond: First, let me restate my gratitude to they want to do so by using the existing network rather the Select Committee for the time and trouble that it than through large, remotely located operations in took over the inquiry. The hon. Lady will know, because Southampton and Aberdeen. In retaining the 24/7 stations she heard the evidence herself, that people who are that he has mentioned, the Minister has presumably closely involved with the service do indeed accept the accepted that new technology is most effective when need for change. As for local knowledge, it is precisely combined with existing local knowledge and relationships, because the point about its importance was made so so why has he not allowed that to obtain at Crosby and powerfully that we decided to look again at the original the other stations that are set to close? Is the truth that pairings of stations and see how the network could be this move has been driven by the Treasury? organised around the retention of one station in each pair. Because of the way in which the pairs work, people Mr Hammond: The hon. Gentleman talks of “using working in either one of a pair of centres have full local the existing network”, but, as I have just explained, knowledge of the entire coastline covered by both. We there are no existing networks except between the paired have addressed the concern expressed about local stations. He talks of the local knowledge at Crosby, and knowledge, while still building the resilience that the asks why we have not applied the principle of retaining network needs for the 21st century. 515 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 516

Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): I welcome the that are remaining open 24/7, will operate with a total news that there will still be a station in the Solent area, of 23 staff and will work in networked tandem, 24/7, which, after all, is one of the busiest sea lanes in the with the marine operations centre on the south coast. world. May I encourage the Secretary of State to consider also retaining the new command centre in the Lee-on- Martin Caton (Gower) (Lab): The Secretary of State the-Solent area, where it is currently located? Not only has completely failed to justify his decision to close does it benefit from the experience and local knowledge Swansea and keep Milford Haven open. That makes that, as we have learnt, is so important, and also from absolutely no sense, certainly in maritime and coastal an ideal location between Portsmouth and Southampton, safety terms; it may make sense in terms of narrow but the MCA already owns a big site at Daedalus, where party political advantage. Swansea is better strategically there is a runway, so its retention makes good financial placed than Milford Haven and deals with twice as sense. many incidents. Swansea also has a history of liaising with different police services across south Wales and Mr Hammond: The Daedalus site is certainly one of south-west England, while Milford Haven has only ever the sites being considered by the agency as a possible dealt with Dyfed Powys. The MCA’s original proposals location for the marine operations centre, which will recognised that if we had to get rid of one of the pair, provide 96 jobs, but no final decision has yet been made. Swansea was the one to retain. What is now proposed is a huge mistake. The consultation should not be about Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) something that is settled; it should be a real consultation (SNP): While I obviously have sympathy for Clyde and where we can make the case for Swansea. Forth, I am, of course, over the moon for Stornoway and Shetland. This has been a good campaign for my Mr Hammond: As I said to my right hon. Friend the constituents in Stornoway. Praise to Comhairle nan Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight) a few moments Eilean Siar, and praise to Shetland Isles council; praise ago, I recognise that in the case of every pair there is also to the shipping Minister, the Under-Secretary of likely to be some internecine warfare over which of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead them is to be selected. The hon. Gentleman says the (Mike Penning), who visited, listened and genuinely original recommendation was to close Milford Haven consulted, and has the respect of many in the islands. and retain Swansea. That was based on an understanding The decision took account of distance as well as local within the agency then about onerous obligations in knowledge. Can the Secretary of State reassure us that respect of the site and buildings at Swansea. It has this is now a settled situation, and that we can look subsequently become clear that they do not impose as forward to a period of stability at the coastguard operation great a financial cost as was first thought, and the view centres in both Stornoway and Shetland? within the agency now is that there are no operational or financial considerations that dictate that the choice Mr Hammond: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, should be either Swansea or Milford Haven. The hon. and I also thank him on behalf of my hon. Friend the Gentleman has completely failed to recognise that my shipping Minister. It is nice to receive an acknowledgment Department already employs more than 5,000 full-time of some of the effort that goes into getting some of equivalent staff in and around Swansea. I am not sure these things right. whether we employ any staff in Milford Haven at present, Of course the proposals are subject to the consultation but if we do, the numbers will be very small. I believe that I have announced, but we envisage this as a settled that in these circumstances, and with no financial or situation which deals with the long-running question of operational drivers, the right decision is to distribute how we can modernise the coastguard not just to make the employment opportunities as equitably as possible. it technically resilient, but to create a career structure and, indeed, a pay structure that will solve the deep-rooted Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): When and long-running industrial relations problems that the Government brought forward the original proposals, have existed in the service. I greatly appreciated that they clearly said they were not a done deal. There has genuinely been a huge change Mr Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): I thank my from those original proposals, as the Government have right hon. Friend and his ministerial team for listening listened to what coastguards such as mine in Falmouth to the representations that I, and others, have made have told them. However, it is clear from the contributions about the Humber coastguard. While this is clearly of my hon. Friends that there are still considerable good news for my constituents who are employed in concerns. Therefore, may I have a reassurance from the Bridlington, is not the overriding issue the need to Government that over this 12-week period they will improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the whole properly listen and take into account any further concerns service? As the Humber station is in effect being asked that are raised about these proposals? to take on more responsibility, what will be the ultimate effect on staffing levels? Will they be increased rather Mr Hammond: The consultation is about the parts of than decreased? this proposal that differ from the previous proposal that is already being consulted on, so we will not receive Mr Hammond: What my right hon. Friend must take further responses to the original consultation proposals, into account is that there will be a marine operations but we are open to responses to the changes in the four centre in the Portsmouth-Southampton area, with areas I outlined in my statement. 96 staff operating 24/7. That will provide a great deal of back-up for all the operations in the country. At Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Secretary Humber there will be a loss of six full-time equivalent of State for his statement and the hard work he has posts. The station, like all the other stations and sub-stations clearly done. I also want to put on record my thanks to 517 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 518

[Jim Shannon] on who is best qualified and most experienced to do the job, but on what alternative employment is available, my colleague, the hon. Member for North Down (Lady and is that really a rationale for providing the best Hermon), who along with me fought a strong campaign service to the public? on behalf of the people of North Down and Strangford. I pay tribute, too, to the staff who have worked hard as Mr Hammond: If the hon. Lady had listened more well, and been very supportive. I should add that the carefully, she would have understood that there is no shipping Minister was very courteous and helpful. He difference between Swansea and Milford Haven in terms came over to Northern Ireland, and to Bangor, to see of operational, technical or financial considerations. exactly what needed to be done and to hear the views of The professional advice we received was that either of the people and explain the options. those centres could provide the service required. Before The decision that has been made reinforces the position the hon. Lady gets on her high horse about this, she of Bangor and its status as a 24/7 station. It was a 24/7 should remember that the proposal my hon. Friend the station before this consultation process, but there was a shipping Minister inherited from the previous proposal to downgrade it to a daytime station. The Administration when coming into office in May 2010 current proposal, however, is to maintain it as a 24/7 would have provided a single coastguard station in the station, for which we are thankful to everyone involved. whole of Wales. What we are proposing today gives I am grateful to the Minister for what he has done. Wales two coastguard stations and a very effective solution to protect the safety of Welsh coastal communities In the penultimate paragraph of the statement, the and seafarers. Secretary of State refers to the consultative process that will take place. He does not specifically mention Bangor, however. Can I take it that in respect of the process Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): The outlined today the position of Bangor is secure? If that shipping Minister should be applauded for the fact that is the case, we will be very happy to welcome the the consultation process has led to the remaining stations shipping Minister and the Secretary of State to the being a 24-hour operation. That was very important, Bangor station in the near future. but can the Secretary of State clarify how these stations will operate alongside the proposed single maritime operations centre and can he assure me that this will not Mr Hammond: I am glad to be able to tell the hon. lead to any scaling down of operations at the remaining Gentleman that we consider that the issue of the potential centres? closure of the station at Bangor was addressed in the previous consultation and there is no need for further Mr Hammond: We have already set out how the local consultation on that. I acknowledge the local issues he stations will operate, with 23 full-time equivalent staff. raised, but I should say that the decision to keep Bangor They will be permanently networked with the marine was made primarily on the basis of the national importance operations centre, which will have 96 staff in total, so of having a station that could deal with the specific civil that each centre will deal with a core base load of work, contingency issues in Northern Ireland and the very but will easily be able to transfer overload work via the important relationships with the Irish Republic in search marine operations centre, either to be handled at that and rescue. centre or to be transmitted on to another centre elsewhere in the UK that is experiencing low work load at the Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): I warmly congratulate time. This will be a genuinely national networked solution. the Secretary of State on his announcement today, which is most welcome in relation to Holyhead. May I Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): I am obviously also pay tribute to the hon. Member for Ynys Môn very pleased that there will still be a coastguard station (Albert Owen) for his leadership of what was a strong at Aberdeen, but I am deeply disappointed that it has cross-party campaign? Does the Secretary of State agree been downgraded from a marine operations centre to I that the waters around north Wales will be safer as a do not know what status. Aberdeen is a crucial location result of this announcement because of the retention of because of the North sea oil and gas industry. My local knowledge in Holyhead, not least the ability to disappointment is mitigated somewhat because we have recognise Welsh language place names? managed to keep the stations in Shetland and Stornoway, which is one positive measure. The station in Aberdeen Mr Hammond: I am glad that there was that outbreak has been gearing up for its new status, and there has of cross-party consensus. My hon. Friend is right that been investment in new technology. What are the jobs the concerns about Welsh language competence, and implications of the fact that its status has been downgraded? particularly recognition of Welsh place names, was one of the factors that determined the ultimate decision. Mr Hammond: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concern, and I appreciate the measured way in which he Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Choosing to close one has presented it. He will, perhaps, have to discuss the of each pair is more like a party game—or “The decision that has been made with my hon. Friend the Apprentice”—than any rationale for designing a shipping Minister. It is only by deciding to go for a service. I do not want either Milford Haven or Swansea single marine operations centre that we have been able to close, but given what my hon. Friend the Member for to provide the resources to allow 24/7 operations to Gower (Martin Caton) said about Swansea’s expertise continue at eight other sub-centres around the country, in covering the whole of the Bristol channel and north and to deliver the result that reflects the consultation Devon and the volume of its work compared with that responses we received and the recommendations of the of Milford Haven, am I to understand from the Secretary Select Committee on Transport in respect of local of State’s comments that he has made his decision not knowledge. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s specific 519 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 520 question, Aberdeen currently has 31 staff. As a result of on the holiday season. I would be grateful for an assurance these proposals, it will lose eight full-time equivalent that it will be possible to transfer that detailed local posts, operating like all the other sub-centres 24/7 with knowledge to Humberside. 23 full-time equivalent staff. Mr Hammond: The Humber station already covers Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): Twenty-five staff the coastline of Norfolk and part of Suffolk, and the are employed at the Brixham maritime co-ordination people working there will have the experience and rescue centre. I pay tribute to their dedication. Can the knowledge that my hon. Friend talks of. I would like to Secretary of State reassure those staff that they will be take this opportunity to remind hon. Members that treated fairly when applying for jobs either at Falmouth part of the proposal involves reinforcing professional or at the maritime operations centre? That is a real coastguard support for the volunteer coastguard operation. concern and will be essential to retaining local knowledge. An additional net total of 32 uniformed officers will be I am concerned at the suggestion that those staff will deployed in direct support of the volunteer coastguard, not have an opportunity to contribute to the further further reinforcing the resilience and effectiveness of consultation, because neither I nor anyone else in south the service. Devon can understand how safety can be preserved Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): When with the closure of that maritime operations centre. the Minister was proposing two marine operations centres, he proposed to have 96 staff at the Solent centre. Now Mr Hammond: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that he is proposing one marine operations centre, he is the measured way in which she makes her point. First, still proposing to have 96 staff at the Solent centre. her constituents, like anybody else, will of course be Does he envisage the service being half as good nationally able to respond to the consultation, but the consultation or the staff working twice as hard? itself is limited to the issues that represent changes from the previous consultation. The coastguards employed at Mr Hammond: Neither. The point about reducing the Brixham are civil servants. They will be entitled to be proposal to a single marine operations centre is that considered for deployment elsewhere in the civil service. resources that are not deployed in the other centre will Wherever possible—and where they are willing—we remain deployed in local stations around the country, will look specifically to secure their knowledge and which is the thrust of most of the representations that experience by redeploying them to other stations that we received—that we should seek to protect and maintain will remain open. This process will take place over a local knowledge deployed in local stations. Resilience in number of years; it is not going to happen overnight. If the event of disaster will be provided by a ghost facility at the end of that process there are people remaining at Dover, which would allow the marine operations who cannot be accommodated elsewhere in the service, centre in the Southampton-Portsmouth area to be they will be offered voluntary redundancy terms. We transferred en masse to Dover in the event of any hope that it will not be necessary to make compulsory catastrophe befalling the Southampton-Portsmouth area. redundancies, and any that are made will be made only as a last resort. Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con): I warmly welcome the news Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): that, subject to the consultation, Milford Haven will There will be considerable anger in Liverpool at the remain open. Will the Secretary of State join me in Secretary of State’s announcement today. Can he tell congratulating the work of the Save Milford Haven the House how many jobs will be lost in Merseyside as a Coastguard group, the Western Telegraph and the Milford result of this decision, and what account, if any, he has and West Wales Mercury, and my hon. Friend the taken of the concerns expressed by the Merseyside fire Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) on service about the implications for safety at sea? the measured way in which they put the case for our area and the wider Welsh community? Can he assure Mr Hammond: We have taken account of all concerns me that during the consultation, the unique nature of that have been expressed to us through the consultation Milford as an energy hub for the whole of the UK will process. The hon. Gentleman will know that under the be taken into account? previous proposals, the Liverpool centre would have been reduced to 10 posts; therefore, today’s announcement Mr Hammond: I am happy to congratulate all those that it will close represents a net loss of 10 further jobs. who have taken part in the process for the measured He should also know—as he indeed does know—that way in which, on the whole, they have done so. As he my hon. Friend the shipping Minister has bent over has travelled round the country, my hon. Friend the backwards to try to accommodate the aspirations of shipping Minister has found that behind what can Liverpool city council to change the status of the cruise sometimes be the public rhetoric, well thought through, liner terminal in Liverpool in a way that will create jobs well argued and sensibly considered proposals and cases and enhance the status of the city. have been put to him. My hon. Friend the Member for Carmarthen West Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): I endorse the comments and South Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart) has asked me of my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour the about the status of Milford Haven as a major port. I Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), and I have said before—I will repeat it—that the professional take some assurance from the fact that we are keeping advice that we have received is that either Milford the 24-hour service on Humberside. When it comes to Haven or Swansea could have delivered the requirement harnessing local knowledge, my concern relates to leisure in south Wales from a technical, operational and financial and tourism. Norfolk has a long coast, with remote point of view. Ultimately, we made the decision to come beaches and currents that change, and Suffolk and down on the side of Milford Haven in the interests of Essex have plenty of estuaries. We are about to embark equity. 521 Coastguard Modernisation14 JULY 2011 Coastguard Modernisation 522

Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): First, I pay tribute Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): I very to all the volunteers, coastguards and full-time search much welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. I am and rescue crews operating helicopters and lifeboats a member of the Select Committee on Transport, so I around our coastline. I welcome the retention of the know that he has clearly listened to many of the concerns Holyhead station, which is based not only on the that were identified, particularly on daylight-only operating. importance of the Welsh language, as has been noted, When we spoke to coastguards as part of our inquiry but on the links with 22 Squadron at RAF Valley. The we were very struck by their willingness to modernise Secretary of State mentioned a nationally networked the service. May I invite him to say a little more about system, as well as consultation. When that is set up, will how the new maritime operations centre will harness he ensure that there is internal consultation of individual new technology to augment the safety that the existing front-line coastguards, so that they can contribute to stations provide? the best and safest network, one that is fit for the 21st century? Mr Hammond: I am grateful to my hon. Friend and to the Committee for the work that it did. I suspect that Mr Hammond: Yes, of course, that process is already he may get the prize for being the Member with the under way. constituency furthest from the coast who has contributed to this discussion today. I would be happy to talk to him Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Well, well, offline, but I sense that Mr Deputy Speaker would not what a surprise! Faced with the choice, a Tory Minister encourage me to explain in detail the technical features decides to close a facility in Liverpool. I genuinely do of the new maritime operations centre. not believe for a moment that the closure of the Liverpool coastguard station was agreed for any reason other than Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) political expediency. If it was not, why was Liverpool (PC): What discussions has the Secretary of State had left out of the original consultation document? The with the new Welsh Government about the proposal to Minister cannot justify his decision. He has just mentioned aim the axe at Swansea rather than Milford Haven? Has that Liverpool may well get a cruise liner turnaround he received any representations from new Welsh Ministers? facility that will increase traffic along our corridors, but he has taken the easy political way out. He should Mr Hammond: No, I have received no representations reconsider his decision, based on the information that about the choice between Swansea and Milford Haven. he has just presented—that Liverpool could indeed get a cruise liner turnaround facility. Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): I welcome the Mr Hammond: Perhaps I am guilty of making a rod improvements to the original proposals that were floating for my own back, Mr Deputy Speaker. I mentioned the around for some years. I particularly welcome not only cruise liner turnaround facility simply to demonstrate the switch to 24-hour cover, which is essential, and the that my hon. Friend the shipping Minister is leaving no increase in the number of stations from that originally stone unturned in trying to help the maritime community proposed, but the opportunity to improve coastguards’ around Liverpool, but the decision has been properly pay. Morale in the coastguard service has been very made, after a full assessment. The station at Holyhead poor, and under the previous Government strikes took will provide proper cover for the maritime areas that place—a very rare thing in this service. Ultimately, the were previously by Crosby. To suggest that there is some purpose of this whole system is not about providing jobs, but about public safety. Can the Secretary of State kind of party political advantage—[HON.MEMBERS: “Shameful!”] Frankly, it is not just shameful; it is also assure the House that public safety will be preserved or illiterate. The hon. Gentleman should look at the map. improved by the modernisation and changes that he proposes? Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I welcome the retention of both Stornoway and Shetland on a 24-hour Mr Hammond: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for basis, which is a big improvement on the original proposals. that comment, and I can give him that reassurance. I However, the closure of the Clyde station leaves a huge can assure him further that the result we have come to area of sea between Bangor and Stornoway without and announced today is based on the input of professionals, any station, as can be seen from the illustrative map. As who understand the needs of the system and the safety I said in the Westminster Hall debate, that coastline issues at stake. As he rightly says, not only the presents unique challenges. So far, we have had a genuine communications resilience and the IT resilience, but, consultation. I think that the Clyde coastguard station above all, the improvement in morale that will be delivered should be kept. Will the Secretary of State agree to by lancing the boil of the long-running industrial relations receive representations on that in the coming consultation? problem that has been festering in this service for many, many years will hugely improve the way in which the Mr Hammond: No. I have made it clear that that will service is delivered and the safety it affords to our be outside the scope of the coming consultation. My communities. hon. Friend said that the Clyde station covers a “huge area of sea”. I understand that it is difficult to get out of Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ that mode of thinking, but that is not the way to think Co-op): Given what the Secretary of State told my hon. about a networked 21st-century coastguard service. Belfast Friend the Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran) has been twinned with Clyde. The station in Belfast has about the loss of jobs under the new plans at the the working local knowledge of the huge area of sea Aberdeen centre, it is hard to see that there will be any that has previously been covered by the Clyde station, opportunity for workers from the Forth coastguard and the arrangements that we have put in place are station to be redeployed to Aberdeen. Therefore, there resilient and will serve us well for the 21st century. is a real risk that their local knowledge will be lost. 523 Coastguard Modernisation 14 JULY 2011 524

Does the Secretary of State really expect us to believe Points of Order that two stations on the entire east coast mainland of Scotland and England, at Aberdeen and Humber, will be able to provide the same kind of local knowledge 2.26 pm that we have at the moment? Kevin Brennan: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Would it be in order under the Parliamentary Mr Hammond: I am sorry to be repetitious, Mr Deputy Witnesses Oaths Act 1871 for the Select Committee on Speaker, but those stations will be working fully networked Culture, Media and Sport, if it so chooses next week, to with the marine operations centre at Southampton, require witnesses appearing before it to do so under which itself will have a much bigger complement of oath? Can you confirm that if they did appear under staff, and much better equipment and communications oath, any false evidence would be subject to the penalties technology, 24/7. It will deliver the level of resilience for perjury under the Perjury Act 1911? and safety that we require. On the first part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, I Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Yo u a r e understand why he made the statement that he did, but correct about the Act; the decision on whether to take there is a degree of turnover going on within coastguard evidence on oath is a matter for the Select Committee stations now, and we expect that, even in areas where and therefore it would be for the Committee to do that. the natural twin will not be recruiting additional staff, On perjury, you are absolutely correct. there will be opportunities for the redeployment of many, if not all, of the staff over the next three or four Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): On a years. point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the Secretary of State for Transport to table a written Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): The Secretary of ministerial statement, as he has done today, that says State said that he had listened to the consultations. All only that an oral statement will be made later the same the coastguard stations said that they should remain day? This appears to be a clear attempt to avoid committing open, reluctantly accepted that there should be change to an oral statement on a matter of great importance and also said that there should be more than 10 stations, prior to seeing whether Members of the House apply so it seems to me that they were not particularly heard. I for and are granted an urgent question. It was only after am disappointed that he is limiting the next bit of the an urgent question was granted that he agreed to make consultation to the few points he has listed. Will he an oral statement today, thus leaving a written ministerial reconsider that decision, particularly if safety issues are statement on the Order Paper purposeless and empty of raised? content. Is this not an abuse of the WMS procedure? Surely it cannot be right for Ministers to attempt to Mr Hammond: No, I am afraid not, as a very extensive manipulate the procedures of the House to attempt to consultation has taken place. It lasted for 20 weeks, avoid facing it in person in this manner. Can we have which is much longer than the Government’s normal your guidance please, Mr Deputy Speaker? standard for consultation. We have responded in detail—the response is in the Library today—to that consultation process. The further consultation is simply about the Mr Deputy Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Lady changes that we have proposed since that document was for giving me notice of that point of order. I do not published. believe that there has been any breach of the House rules. Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab): I am extremely grateful for your generosity in calling me, Mr Deputy Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): On a point of Speaker, given that my Public Bill Committee duties order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I recently tabled a question meant that I could not be here earlier. The Minister may for oral answer from the Department for Business, recall that I tabled a written question on the number of Innovation and Skills. In fact, I believe that it would vacancies for watch officers at Fife Ness station, and I originally have been Question 11 on the Order Paper was alarmed to hear the number given. On Saturday, I today. I subsequently received a letter telling me that my will be at the Dunbar lifeboat day, celebrating, with the question was outwith the Department’s remit. It was local community, the bravery, service and sacrifice of about the computer games industry, which is a big the Dunbar crew. I want to be able to reassure them that business in my constituency—I repeat the word “business”. this decision was not taken before the end of the Many people are involved in developing the games, consultation and that Fife Ness was not being wound which is innovation, and most people involved are down. Did the Minister visit Fife Ness during the graduates from the university of Abertay, which would consultation? suggest a high level of skills. I am at a loss as to why the question was refused. In which circumstances can Mr Hammond: The hon. Lady makes the important Departments refuse to answer questions from people in point that the uncertainty that this process has inevitably this House? introduced has led, in some cases, to recruitment difficulties; there are unfilled posts within the coastguard service as Mr Deputy Speaker: I can completely understand the we speak. Our hope is that the signals we are sending hon. Gentleman’s frustration at losing the opportunity today on certainty, better pay, better conditions, better to ask an oral question, and that frustration builds up. career progression and improved industrial relations Transfers are the responsibility of the Department and will make it possible for the coastguard service to man not me, and I know that the Table Office does its best to up to the level it needs to be at to implement these advise hon. Members of a possible transfer. The frustration changes and keep our coasts safe for the future. carries on, but this is not a matter for me to decide. 525 Points of Order 14 JULY 2011 526

Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): On a point Sovereign Grant Bill (Allocation of Time) of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. We are just about to proceed to our business on the Sovereign Grant Bill, but because of the timetabling that has been agreed 2.31 pm there will be no Second Reading. I know that you are The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): not responsible for that, but it is worth putting down a I beg to move, marker that these are very important subjects. We have That the following provisions shall apply to the proceedings on waited since 1760 for this important reform but I am the Sovereign Grant Bill: not sure that it is so desperately urgent that we do not Timetable need Second Reading. Perhaps in future we can so conduct our business, particularly with sensitive matters 1.–(1) Notwithstanding the practice of the House as to the interval between the various stages of a Bill brought in upon a such as this, which concern the Head of State, so that financial resolution, proceedings on Second Reading, in Committee, we get a Second Reading of important Bills. on Consideration and on Third Reading shall be completed at today’s sitting in accordance with the following provisions of this Mr Deputy Speaker: Let us see what the Minister says paragraph. when he moves the motion. (2) Proceedings on Second Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at 2.30 pm. BILL PRESENTED (3) Proceedings in Committee and on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at 5.00 pm. CYCLES (PROTECTIVE HEADGEAR FOR CHILDREN)BILL (4) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) concluded) be brought to a conclusion at 6.00 pm. Annette Brooke presented a Bill to require the wearing Timing of proceedings and Questions to be put of protective headgear by children while riding cycles; 2. When the Bill has been read a second time— to prescribe penalties for contraventions; and for connected (a) it shall (notwithstanding Standing Order No. 63 (Committal purposes. of bills not subject to a programme order)) stand committed to a Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Committee of the whole House without any Question being put; Friday, 4 November 2011, and to be printed (Bill 220). (b) the Speaker shall leave the Chair whether or not notice of an Instruction has been given. 3.–(1) On the conclusion of proceedings in Committee, the Chairman shall report the Bill to the House without putting any Question. (2) If the Bill is reported with amendments, the House shall proceed to consider the Bill as amended without any Question being put. 4. For the purpose of bringing any proceedings to a conclusion in accordance with paragraph 1, the Speaker or Chairman shall forthwith put the following Questions (but no others)— (a) any Question already proposed from the Chair; (b) any Question necessary to bring to a decision a Question so proposed; (c) the Question on any amendment moved or Motion made by a Minister of the Crown; (d) any other Question necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded. 5. On a Motion so made for a new Clause or a new Schedule, the Chairman or Speaker shall put only the Question that the Clause or Schedule be added to the Bill. 6. If two or more Questions would fall to be put under paragraph 4(c) on successive amendments moved or Motions made by a Minister of the Crown, the Chairman or Speaker shall instead put a single question in relation to those amendments or Motions. 7. If two or more Questions would fall to be put under paragraph 4(d) in relation to successive provisions of the Bill, the Chairman shall instead put a single Question in relation to those provisions. Miscellaneous 8. Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business) shall apply so far as necessary for the purposes of this Order. 9.–(1) The proceedings on any Motion made by a Minister of the Crown for varying or supplementing the provisions of this Order shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement. (2) Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business) shall apply to those proceedings. 10. Standing Order No. 82 (Business Committee) shall not apply in relation to any proceedings to which this Order applies. 527 Sovereign Grant Bill (Allocation of 14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill (Allocation of 528 Time) Time) 11.–(1) No Motion shall be made, except by a Minister of the 2.33 pm Crown, to alter the order in which any proceedings on the Bill are taken or to re-commit the Bill. Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): I emphasise (2) The Question on any such Motion shall be put forthwith. that my remarks have nothing to do with the measure we will debate today. We can express our views on that 12.–(1) No dilatory Motion shall be made in relation to proceedings to which this Order applies except by a Minister of the Crown. one way or the other if we wish. My concern is that we are going to take all stages in one day—we are not, in (2) The Question on any such Motion shall be put forthwith. fact, because we will not even have Second Reading. 13. The Speaker may not arrange for a debate to be held in When Ministers come along, as the Chancellor has accordance with Standing Order No. 24 (Emergency debates) at today’s sitting before the conclusion of any proceedings to which today, and argue that it is important to deal with all this Order applies. stages of the Bill in one day they might make their case, 14.–(1) Sub-paragraph (2) applies if the House is adjourned, or but that does not mean that the House should be the sitting is suspended, before the conclusion of any proceedings complacent about the procedure. Last Thursday, the to which this Order applies. same procedure applied. We had all stages of the Police (2) No notice shall be required of a Motion made at the next (Detention and Bail) Bill in one day and the Home sitting by a Minister of the Crown for varying or supplementing Secretary explained its urgency, but even on that occasion, the provisions of this Order. I expressed my concern over the way in which we were 15. Proceedings to which this Order applies shall not be hurried. interrupted under any Standing Order relating to the sittings of I consider this way of presenting measures to the the House. House and telling us that everything has to be done 16.–(1) Any private business which has been set down for quickly in one day to be undesirable. What will happen consideration at 3.00 pm at today’s sitting shall, instead of being when the Bill goes to the other place? It will have a considered as provided by Standing Orders, be considered at the Second Reading, perhaps, which it has not had here, but conclusion of the proceedings on the Bill today. the rest of the stages will be taken formally. I want to (2) Paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business) ask a question about motions such as this one on the shall apply to the private business for a period of three hours from the conclusion of the proceedings on the Bill or, if those proceedings allocation of time. What other measures are going to be are concluded before the moment of interruption, for a period introduced in the same way? The procedure being pursued equal to the time elapsing between 3.00 pm and the conclusion of shows disrespect to the House. Yes, Ministers always those proceedings. have an excuse for why things must be done in such a We are going to follow a rather unusual procedure hurried way, but it is undesirable and it should not be here, I think, because we have run out of time for repeated except on very rare occasions. I want to register Second Reading. I looked to the Chair for guidance on my protest accordingly. how to handle that and I suggest that as we have some time for debate in the Committee of the Whole House 2.35 pm this afternoon we should use the time on clause 1 stand Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I will detain the part to have, in effect, a Second Reading debate. Since House for only a very short time. First, I strongly agree no amendments were tabled to that clause, either, that is with the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for fine. As I understand it through the usual channels, the Walsall South— official Opposition are happy with that. That will address the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for Mr Winnick: Walsall North. Walsall South is your Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) and we can have what feels sister. to the House like a Second Reading debate albeit on clause 1 stand part. Keith Vaz: Walsall North (Mr Winnick); my hon. Friend is definitely not my sister, my hon. Friend the 2.32 pm Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz)—I would have recognised that. I agree with what he said and I thank Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): We him. are clearly making a momentous decision today with I think the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the the biggest change in the royal finances since 1760, so it shadow Chancellor are trying to be helpful but there is obviously important that we should have a full debate. were issues that I wanted to raise on Second Reading We had a full debate a fortnight ago and we have that concerning the Act of Settlement and my Bill on the opportunity again today. Given the fact the statements removal of primogeniture, which is currently before the have run on so long, the Chancellor is correct that we House and ought to be considered alongside the very have a difficulty. The Opposition will be happy to have a sensible changes being made by the Chancellor in clause 9 full debate on clause 1 stand part and obviously the of this Bill, which gives a female heir of the Duke of sooner we start that debate, the better. Cornwall the chance to get a settlement equal to a male heir. I agree with what the Chancellor and shadow Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): On a point Chancellor have said, but there is no opportunity to of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I just need your guidance raise these issues if we simply have a debate on clause as I have a particular general point that I wanted to stand part instead of on Second Reading. Like the hon. make. It pertains to clause 13 but I would normally have Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh), I should like to made it on Second Reading. Will you immediately call know whether it is your intention, Mr Deputy Speaker, me to order if I seek to raise it? to allow a clause stand part debate to proceed as if it were Second Reading, thus enabling us to raise concerns Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I think we about the modernisation of the Act of Settlement, will need to listen to what the hon. Gentleman has to which as the hon. Gentleman has said, we have been say. waiting to do for two centuries. 529 Sovereign Grant Bill (Allocation of 14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill (Allocation of 530 Time) Time) Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): The stand Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, has made his part debate on clause 1 will be quite broad. significant points; there are others. The one that most concerns me is that if passed—I have questions about 2.37 pm the level of financial support—there can never be any change, because the provisions will not be debated in Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): May I raise an the same way as the civil list is debated each time the issue in support of the points that many people have monarch changes. made about the role of the monarchy outside the well- known ceremonial role—the crucial role of Head of We are setting in perpetuity a system for paying the State? This matter gets little or no attention. The royal family that cannot be challenged thereafter. Even Conservative historian, Robert Rhodes James, a former George III would have baulked at that—[Interruption]— colleague of ours, gave a lecture in Cambridge, which even though some Conservative colleagues from a sedentary was largely ignored, about a time when the role of the position seem to think that it is a good idea. Therefore, monarchy might have been absolutely crucial in our should we not put this off? Festina lente. We do not history. It was at the time when the skids were under need to rush this through today. We could return to the Margaret Thatcher and everyone wanted her to go and Bill in the autumn. We could then have a proper debate tearful members of the Cabinet were coming to No. 10 and proper public discussion, and deal with it properly. Downing Street asking her to go. Robert Rhodes James, who was a very distinguished and respected Member of 2.40 pm the House at that time, said that the Conservative party suddenly became terrified because there was a possibility Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): Members want that Mrs Thatcher might call a general election and she to go back to 1700 and something. I am happy to go [Interruption.] could not have been stopped from doing so by the back to 1690. Given the week that we Conservative party, the Cabinet or the House of Commons. are in, we are close enough. At home, we often say, “We won the battle, but they kept the river.” In this instance, I am happy to support the Government and go with the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We proposal. are talking about the allocation of time. I know that history is part of time but I am not sure it is relevant to the Bill. 2.41 pm Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): I Paul Flynn: This point is crucial to why we need extra am— time. This issue is virtually unknown, but it is important because the only person who could then have stopped Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab):Going back to Margaret Thatcher from acting in her own interests 1066. rather than in the national interests, as she might well have been elected, was the Queen. This is a question Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am not going to go back to 1066, about the personality of the monarch, because the but I am not sure whether it was auspicious to schedule strong personality of the monarch might have been the debate for Bastille day. Debating the monarchy vital then. This matter is so important that we should today of all days might not have been wise, but to limit have a greater allocation of time and a full debate. the debate so much is not necessarily as constitutional as it ought to be, and perhaps Her Majesty’s Government 2.38 pm might like to bring the Bill back, as the right hon. Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): It is a serious Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) suggested, point that we are rushing through today a fundamental when we can have a little bit of time for a proper debate change. Reference has been made to 1760, so we are on Second Reading. proposing in two hours, if that, to change what has Question put and agreed to. been in place for more than 200 years. There has been virtually no publicity in the press. For obvious reasons, we have been dominated in the House and in the public SOVEREIGN GRANT BILL sphere by other events since the Chancellor and the shadow Chancellor first spoke on this issue and since 2.42 pm the Bill was read the First time two weeks ago. At that time, of course, none of us would have imagined what Question put forthwith (Order, this day),That the Bill would be the only story dominating the press. be now read a Second time. This is profoundly important. My right hon. Friend Question agreed to. the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who is the Bill accordingly read a Second time. 531 14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 532

Sovereign Grant Bill will use the debate on clause 1 to have something akin to a Second Reading today, too. I hope to address all Considered in Committee the issues that people raised two weeks ago in my response on clause 1. Of course, we will have time later [MR LINDSAY HOYLE in the Chair] today to go through other parts of the Bill. The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): The Committee will have seen from the provisional Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): A fortnight ago, selection list that I have selected a number of manuscript the House was exceptionally thinly attended, even for a amendments tabled by the Minister this morning. I Thursday. Will the Chancellor tell the House when would not as a rule select such manuscript amendments Back Benchers were informed that the Bill was coming without good reason. I can see no reason why they were before the House? not tabled in the proper time, but in the unusual circumstances of the Bill, I am prepared to select them. Mr Osborne: The problem that Parliament had was that under the procedures of the House, we had to Clause 1 receive a gracious message from Her Majesty the day before. I do not expect the hon. Gentleman to agree THE SOVEREIGN GRANT with the procedure, given his broader views on the monarchy, but we had to wait for that gracious message 2.43 pm before making it publicly known that we would have a The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): debate in the House. That is what happened. I spoke to I beg to move, That the clause stand part of the Bill. the official Opposition, and the Prime Minister spoke to the Leader of the Opposition a week earlier, but I I concede that we are engaged in a rather unusual accept that the debate was not as fully attended as it procedure. To have what I hope will amount to a might have been. However, we did spend a couple of Second Reading debate, we will debate clause 1 stand hours discussing the matter a couple of weeks ago, and part. Clause 1 will create a sovereign support grant and there were quite a number of speeches made, so even so, in effect, it lies at the heart of the Bill. I completely though the debate was not as fully attended as, for respect and understand what has just been said by hon. example, yesterday’s proceedings in Parliament, attendance Members on both sides of the House. I would point out was not that dissimilar to attendance today. Of course, that we had something akin to a debate on Second there has been lots of notice of today’s debate. Reading a couple of weeks ago, when we debated the principle for several hours. I freely concede that we did not have the Bill in front of us. Paul Flynn rose— I was following the procedure established over many decades, and I worked with the Clerks and, indeed, Mr Osborne: I will give way, and then I should through the usual channels to try to create something probably make some progress on clause 1 stand part. akin to a debate on Second Reading a couple of weeks ago. Our intention was to debate the Bill in Committee Paul Flynn: I do not think it is fair to blame the and on Report on the Floor of the House, because it is a monarch for the way that the measures were rushed into constitutional Bill. In effect, the House of Commons the House. Normally, if there is a change to business, a will have two days on the Floor of the House to debate business statement is made to the House as early as the legislation, but I am the first to accept that we have possible; I cannot remember one being made at all in adopted a rather archaic procedure. I am glad that we this case. Most hon. Members had other pressing business used a bit of modern innovation to allow this debate to on that day, and only those who were here in the take place under clause 1 stand part. morning had any idea that the measures were going ahead. 2.45 pm Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Obviously, The Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I have listened to what the Chancellor said, but will he Order. I have sympathy for the hon. Gentleman, but we bear in mind that we did precisely the same thing last have just decided on the process that we are following; Thursday, on a subject that is not his responsibility? It is we now have to stick with where we are. all the more irritating that on two successive Thursdays we have had this situation in the House. Mr Osborne: All I would say is that I have followed Mr Osborne: I cannot speak on what happened last the advice of the House authorities throughout. The week, but I would just draw the hon. Gentleman’s procedure has been unusual. People have said that this attention to this distinction: two weeks ago, on the is the most important change since 1760, but of course Floor of the House, we had something like a Second in the early 1970s, the House made some significant Reading debate about the principles of the Bill. In the changes, so we are partly following procedures laid comprehensive spending review statement last October, down then. I set out how we proposed to proceed on the subject; Let me get on to the substance of the Bill. Everyone that was quite well known. There is not a great deal of has now had a chance to read it. Amendments have surprise about the idea in the Bill of a sovereign grant, been tabled by Opposition Back Benchers, Opposition linked to the revenues of the Crown Estate and so on. Front Benchers, and Government Front Benchers, and I As I say, I accept that the procedure is rather unusual, shall say something about that. We have basically accepted but the effect is that the House had something akin to a some of the amendments that the shadow Chancellor Second Reading debate a couple of weeks ago, and we and his team tabled, and I will explain why later. 533 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 534

[Mr George Osborne] Audit Office and that the Public Accounts Committee should be able to look at it. That is a fairly dramatic I will begin, as we should do on such occasions, by increase in the transparency before Parliament. putting on the record the House’s gratitude for the service that the Queen has provided to our country over Mr Kevan Jones rose— many decades. Indeed, her time on the throne recently exceeded that of George III and she now has Queen Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op) Victoria in her sights. The recent visit by the Duke and rose— Duchess of Cambridge to Canada and California reminded us that other members of the royal family also make an Mr Osborne: Let me just answer this point before enormous contribution. As I said a couple of weeks giving way again. ago—it is a view shared by nearly everyone in the Although I do not want to speak for the Comptroller House—we want a system that provides the Queen with and Auditor General or the PAC, I suspect that if they dignity and allows her and her family to do their official wanted to look at the funding arrangements between jobs, which in her case is Head of State, but to do so in a the MOD and the royal family, they would be able to do way that is accountable, transparent and delivers value so under the provisions of this legislation. for money for the taxpayer. The current system of financial support has some Mr Jones: A couple of weeks ago I welcomed the very serious shortcomings. It is very inflexible, so money increased transparency in the auditing process that saved in one spending area such as travel cannot be the proposals bring forward, but if we are to determine spent in another area such as the maintenance of royal the size of the sovereign grant—it is £30-odd million a palaces. It is not very transparent, as the National Audit year—surely a good starting point would be to find out Office is not the auditor of royal finances; that is done what the actual cost of the royals doing their public by the permanent secretary to the Treasury. I pay tribute duties is. I accept that some of the things the Ministry to my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough of Defence does are directly linked to the royals’ public (Mr Leigh), the former Chair of the Public Accounts duties and I do not suggest for one minute that the royal Committee, for the work it did in recent years to look at household should subsidise that, but surely to determine value for money studies on particular areas of royal the size of the sovereign grant we need a better financing, which has been quite opaque and which this understanding of all costs coming from the public legislation seeks to change. Critically, the current system purse, whether from the Ministry of Defence or any has relied on a reserve of public money that was built other Government Department. up over the past 20 years and is now depleted. That was a crucial part of the royal household’s annual funding Mr Osborne: Let me give way to the hon. Member for for the continuance of their official duties. That money Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson) and then I will has run out, so in other words the system is broken and answer both hon. Gentlemen’s points. we have to fix it. Mr Davidson: The Chancellor mentioned his view Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Does the that income from the Duchy of Cornwall and the right hon. Gentleman agree that if we are have true Duchy of Lancaster is private money of the royal transparency in the costs of the royal household, we family. Surely he recognises that in the previous Parliament need to know about all expenditure, including, as I the Public Accounts Committee established quite clearly suggested a couple of weeks ago, the contribution made that that is not the case—that this is not the private to the household by the Ministry of Defence in terms of property of the monarch or her family but a trust staff? We learnt last week from The Mail on Sunday that established by the nation in order to fund the various Prince Charles has apparently objected to the full costs members of the royal family. That is different from of the royal flight being put on the royal household, saying that it is the private property of the royal family which effectively means that the MOD is subsidising the themselves. household. If we are to get the true costs, do we not need full transparency on everything paid to the royal Mr Osborne: I should make it clear that it is an household? established principle that the income from that property, which is held in trust, is for the private purposes of the Mr Osborne: I will move on shortly to some of the royal family. issues that the hon. Gentleman raised two weeks ago on In response to the hon. Member for North Durham the use of accommodation on the royal estate, for (Mr Jones), I point out that there are of course some example by the MOD, and say something on that and areas of royal financing—I will come on to say something other areas of royal spending. The Bill establishes a about royal protection—where it is very difficult to be distinction between the royal family’s public expenditure public about some of the sums of money involved. The and their private finances. It is a long-established principle Bill—I hope that we will soon get into the meat of it—is of the system that their private finances, for example a mechanism for helping to continue the current level of from the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall, are their spending. As I say, it is perfectly within the rights of the private money. There are checks and balances on that, National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee, such as the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if they want to, to look at payments from the Ministry having to be a member of the Government. We are of Defence, but that has to be a matter for them. saying that all the royal family’s public expenditure, which goes to their official duties and those parts of the Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): As the most royal estate that are not part of their private income or senior member of the Public Accounts Committee in assets, should all now be auditable by the National the Chamber—because I am the only one here—I think 535 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 536 that I speak for everybody on that Committee when I 3pm say that we welcome the additional transparency and On the level of the sovereign grant, as we discussed very much look forward to bringing the royal household two weeks ago, for many centuries the Government of before it to answer the questions that have rightly been the day have used taxpayers’ money to fund the official raised across the Chamber. duties of the monarch. In return for that financial support, every King and Queen since George III in 1760 Mr Osborne: I thank my hon. Friend. When the has agreed to surrender for their lifetime the full income Chair of the PAC, the right hon. Member for Barking of the Crown Estate to the Government. Nothing in the (Margaret Hodge), spoke in the debate two weeks ago, Bill changes that. The Crown Estate’s profits will continue she was very generous in her tribute and made it pretty to flow into the Exchequer, as they have done for the clear that the PAC would be getting to work on its job. I past 250 years, and we will continue to use them for served on the PAC, as its most junior member, with the general public expenditure. The funding for the monarch hon. Member for Glasgow South West, and I remember will continue to be provided by the taxpayer out of the us making an interesting visit to Kensington palace to money voted in the estimates. investigate royal finances. For some years, therefore, the Our approach is new in the sense that we are choosing PAC has been establishing a reputation for examining a new reference point for the calculation of the support the books in this area. that we give the sovereign. We propose that the Queen should receive a grant equivalent to 15% of the profits Paul Flynn rose— made by the Crown Estate in the financial year two years earlier. To put it another way, the sovereign grant Mr Kevan Jones rose— in 2013-14, which is the first year in which the mechanism will operate, will be equivalent to 15% of the Crown Estate’s profits in 2011-12. Why do it in that way? We Mr Osborne: I would like to make a little progress, if could of course have chosen some other measure. We both hon. Gentlemen will allow me. Let me say a little chose this mechanism partly because it establishes the more about the Bill, and then I will be happy to take historical connection between the Crown Estate and questions. financial support for the monarch. The real reason was Clause 1 proposes the creation a sovereign grant that we were looking for a mechanism that was broadly designed around three principles. First, it is sustainable, in line with the economy and that would be more so that it provides reliable, long-term financing for the permanent. sovereign that is free from annual political argument One important change in the Bill, which was referred but gives the House of Commons proper checks and to in the debate on the time resolution, is that we will no controls. Secondly, it is flexible in dealing with the longer require Parliaments—I hope future Parliaments—to problem I described whereby money saved on travel pass primary legislation within six months of the arrival cannot be spent on palace maintenance and vice versa. on the throne of a new monarch, which is the case Thirdly, it is accountable, as I have been saying, because under the civil list arrangements. We are trying to of the historic increase in parliamentary scrutiny of establish arrangements that are not to do with the royal expenditure. current personality of the monarch, but that endure Because the Queen is one of the few Heads of State in beyond that and allow the royal household to plan for the world who is genuinely completely above the party the future with certainty. political fray, I want to take this opportunity to thank my opposite number, the shadow Chancellor, and his Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): Will team for conducting themselves in a very proper way as my right hon. Friend confirm that in the theoretical the loyal Opposition in asking questions. We will come circumstance that a new monarch decided to keep the on to the questions that he has rightly asked. [Interruption.] Crown Estate revenues, it would be open to such a I suggest that his Parliamentary Private Secretary, the monarch to do so? hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane), banks this moment, because it might not come again in this Mr Osborne: I think that that is pretty unlikely and Parliament. We have tried to be as open as possible. I pretty theoretical, to be honest. Since 1760, it has been know that members of the shadow Chancellor’s team an established precedent that the monarch hands over met the Treasury officials on the Bill team yesterday. As the revenues of the Crown Estate to the Government of I will explain, I propose to accept a couple of his the day. There are many powers that we vest in our amendments. monarch. The Queen has wisely, like her predecessors, The shadow Chancellor asked four questions in the chosen not to use those powers. As I say, I think that debate two weeks ago. I propose, for the rest of my that question is pretty theoretical. remarks, to answer those four questions. It will be up to him and the House to decide whether they are adequate Paul Flynn: In the debate two weeks ago, the Member answers, but I thought that that was the best way to who represents the middle ages, the hon. Member for approach this matter. His first question was about the North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), suggested level of the sovereign grant, the second was about the that the Queen paid income tax at a higher rate than mechanism for uprating it, the third was about the new any other citizen. Will the new arrangements be so arrangements for greater parliamentary scrutiny, and transparent that we know the precise rate of tax the the fourth, which relates to some of the interventions monarch pays and whether the monarch gets the expected we have just heard, was about the way in which the windfall of revenue from wind and tidal generation in Government provide other forms of support to the their 15%? If that revenue becomes excessive, will it be royal family. I will take each question in turn. curtailed to a suitable level? 537 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 538

Mr Osborne: I will deal in my remarks with that Mr Osborne: May I make some progress before taking specific point about what will happen if the revenues of a few further interventions? the Crown Estate suddenly grow beyond people’s I should just mention, although the change to the expectations, or even in line with the expectations of Duchy of Cornwall is in a later clause, that as I explained those who think that there will be a windfall from the to the House a couple of weeks ago, all Dukes of marine estate. Cornwall are heirs to the throne, but not all heirs to the throne are Dukes of Cornwall. As a result, there is Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): The potential for there to be an heir to the throne who was guidance to the Bill suggests: not the Duke of Cornwall, because the Duke of Cornwall “The Crown Estate is not the sovereign’s private property”. can only be the eldest son of the monarch. The heir to However, we know that in 1760, as the guidance states, the throne could be either a daughter, granddaughter or George III grandson of the monarch, and they would not have “surrendered these revenues (but not ownership of the capital access to the duchy’s income. The Bill proposes a change assets)”. to that, but does not propose to change the Act of Where do we stand on the clarity of ownership? Settlement.

Mr Osborne: It is understood that there are certain Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab) rose— pieces of property, such as Buckingham palace, Windsor castle and the Crown Estate, that belong to the institution Mr Osborne: I suspect that the Chairman of the of the monarchy, and certain pieces of property and Home Affairs Committee wants to intervene on that assets that are the private property and assets of the point. Windsor family. That is a well-established precedent and has been recognised by the House for many decades. Keith Vaz: I feel very guilty that the Chancellor has Nothing in the Bill changes that. been speaking for so long and, because of all the interventions, is only on clause 1. I will not detain him Mr Davidson: Will the Chancellor of the Exchequer for long, but I thank him for giving way. Will he update give way on that point? the House during the course of his speech, if he ever gets to complete it, on the negotiations that have been Mr Osborne: I will give way on that point and then conducted by the Deputy Prime Minister with the Prime make some progress on clause 1. Ministers of 17 other Commonwealth countries, and let us know whether there has been any progress on the Mr Davidson: I am very grateful. The Chancellor is matter? undoubtedly correct that some pieces of property are tied in with the institution of the monarchy, such as Buckingham palace, but the coastline of Scotland and Mr Osborne: I think I will leave it to the Deputy the undersea surface are not intimately connected with Prime Minister to update the House on that. It is one of the monarchy and have never, as far as I am aware, been the many benefits that come from being Deputy Prime visited by the monarchy. In those circumstances, I am Minister that he gets to conduct these important not clear why the two categories are being conflated. negotiations. [Interruption.] They are extremely important Surely it would be better, if the Chancellor wants a negotiations. The right hon. Member for Leicester East method that is tied to growth in the economy, if it were (Keith Vaz) makes a good point in reminding the House simply tied to, say, gross domestic product. If GDP that this question involves a lot of other countries. That went down the Queen and the monarchy would suffer explains why something that people assume would be the same as the rest of us, and if it went up, they would quite simple to deal with in the House of Commons benefit in line with the rest of us. That would be better is not. than tying the fund to a measure that I envisage will Let me talk about the actual numbers. How much is make it grow at a far greater rate than the economy as a 15% of the Crown Estate profit, and how does it compare whole. with what the royal family has spent in recent years on its official duties? In 2006, they spent £33 million; in Mr Osborne: First, I do not want to speak for the 2007-08, they spent £35 million; and then £37 million Queen, but I think she is quite familiar with the Scottish and £34 million. The latest annual accounts, which were coastline. last week, showed that they spent £32 million. The amount varies a bit, because one-off capital projects are Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): Underwater? either undertaken or not in given years, but the average of the past five years is £34 million. It is interesting to Mr Osborne: Let us try to keep focused on the issue at note that it was £49 million 20 years ago, so the latest hand. figure shows quite a dramatic reduction compared with Secondly, I completely accept that I could have brought what they used to spend. In real terms, the reduction is other mechanisms before the House, but the Crown more than 50%. Estate is a large commercial property company that is run in a pretty conservative way. It is not a bad proxy Mr Kevan Jones: That is very interesting, but if we do for how the country and the economy are doing. That is not know which Government Departments are subsidising why we are proposing this mechanism, but of course if the royal household, how can we tell whether those people want to propose something else they are entitled efficiencies are real ones? I suspect that in some cases, to do so. Departments are cross-subsidising them. At the moment, the grant in aid for certain palaces comes from, for Mr Kevan Jones: Will the Chancellor give way? example, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. 539 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 540

I know that in 1999, Marlborough house was included 3.15 pm as part of that. Will there be limitations on what other royal properties can be added so that the sovereign Mr Osborne: The money is not paid directly. It comes grant can be spent on them? into the Exchequer, like other revenues, and is then paid out to the royal family. It is paid out of general public Mr Osborne: I will get back to the hon. Gentleman funds through estimates voted by Parliament. The only specifically on that point—I do not have specific information link is that we have a formula for how much we give the on Marlborough house with me at the moment—but on royal family. However, there is no direct transfer of his broader point, for the first time, we will allow the money from the Crown Estate to the royal family. National Audit Office to crawl over the arrangements that he describes. Paul Flynn rose— I was going to go on to explain that some senior members of the Ministry of Defence and our military Mr Osborne: If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I live in properties that are rented from the Crown Estate will make some progress. at below the market rate. The properties are within I hope that I have answered the shadow Chancellor’s extremely secure zones, and it would not be possible to first question about the level of funds. In the end, it is a rent them to virtually anyone else. That arrangement matter of judgment whether £34 million or so is the suits the MOD, because it gets properties—not very right amount for the future. The newspapers’ reaction many—at below the market rate, and equally, it suits the to my statement a couple of weeks ago was not much of royal estates, in that they can rent out properties that a guide. The Independent headline read, “Queen guaranteed they would not be able to rent out otherwise. £35m ‘recession-proof’ income”, while The Daily Telegraph Let me talk about those sums. As I have pointed out, wrote, “Monarchy ‘shorn of its dignity’ to save money”. the average over the past five years is £34 million, which I think we probably got it about right somewhere in is much less than 20 years ago, when it was £49 million. between the two. In 2013-14—the first year in which the new sovereign That leads to the second and probably most important grant mechanism will apply—the level will be determined question that the shadow Chancellor asked: how can we by the profits in 2011-12, as I said earlier. We do not ensure that the sovereign grant is neither too high nor know precisely what those profits will be, because we too low, and what can we do about it if it is judged to be are in the middle of the financial year, but the recently either? Basically, the Bill introduces a number of important published Crown Estate annual report for last year safeguards. First, it provides for a reserve fund so that showed profits of £231 million, and the Crown Estate any unspent surplus from the sovereign grant that year confirms that that is pretty much what it is expecting in will go into a reserve fund. Under the civil list, there profits for 2011-12. The result of all that—this is the has always been a reserve fund. Indeed, it reached key point for the House—is that the sovereign grant in £37 million early last decade. We propose that the 2013-14 would be £34 million, which is in line with the reserve fund should be capped so that it does not go average for the past five years. I would not say that that above about 50% of the annual grant. In other words, is a coincidence, because we have partly designed the assuming that the grant is likely to be £34 million, the mechanism to ensure that that has happened. reserve fund would not be allowed to rise above £17 million. If projections for the Crown Estate are correct over However, it is right that the royal household has a the rest of this Parliament, we should see a real-terms reserve to call upon for major capital works that it cut of up to 9% in the funding for the official duties of needs to undertake, although, as I said, we are introducing the sovereign in that period. for the first time a cap on that reserve. Mr Davidson: The Chancellor will be aware, from The Bill retains as the three royal trustees the Prime discussions on the Scotland Bill, of a proposal for part Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the of the Crown Estate to be devolved to the Scottish Keeper of the Privy Purse. It is our responsibility to act Parliament in Edinburgh, or handed to local authorities, in any given year to ensure that the reserve remains community groups and so on. What would happen to within that 50% cap. If it is going to be higher, we can the Crown Estate and the money going to the royalty if act to reduce the cash going to the royal household that proposal were passed? through the grant to below 15% of Crown Estate profits. That is one check. Mr Osborne: That is not something that the Government are proposing today. If we were to propose it, we would Mr Kevan Jones rose— of course address the impact of such a decision on the royal finances. I am assuming that even under such Mr Osborne: May I set out the checks and then invite arrangements, the Queen would remain the Queen of questions—I mean interventions? I am not going to Scots. I believe that most of us are happy with the make the mistake of some right hon. Members in current arrangements. thinking that interventions are questions. Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) The second check concerns the in-year controls that (SNP): Will the Chancellor give way? the Treasury operates for all public expenditure. The permanent secretary to the Treasury remains the accounting Mr Osborne: I will give way, but then I really must officer for the disbursal of Treasury funds, and the make more progress. Keeper of the Privy Purse will be the accounting officer for the royal spending we are talking about and can be Mr MacNeil: Will the money from the Crown Estate summoned and asked to give account for that. The hon. be paid directly to the royal family or will it go to a third Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams) asked party? whether Buckingham palace will be able to open for 541 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 542

[Mr George Osborne] that not every Member of the House will agree with that, but the effect, which is surely the important thing, longer this year than it did last year. I can confirm that is that the amount of money going from the public that will be the case, as the palace is looking for additional purse to the royal family will be broadly the same. They sources of income. were receiving about £34 million on average from the The key check, however, for ensuring that the level of civil list, the palaces grant and the travel grant, plus the funds is appropriate and that the 15% amount is being money put into the reserves by the taxpayer, and they paid will be the review of the 15% mechanism. The will go on receiving £34 million. We can have a debate legislation requires that a review is carried out seven about the mechanism, but the effect will be pretty much years after the Bill comes into effect and every seven to continue through this Parliament with the sums that years thereafter. The shadow Chancellor and his team they were getting during the last one. We are of course have suggested some amendments. I have discussed talking in cash terms, which will mean about a 9% real them with him and I am now proposing, through cut, coming on top of a more than 15% real cut over the Government manuscript amendments today, basically past 20 years. to accept his amendments. That means that the first I know that we are still debating clause 1, but I hope review will be carried out four years after the grant that the Committee will acknowledge that, in accepting comes into effect—he suggested three years, but having the shadow Chancellor’s amendments to clause 7, we discussed it, I have decided on four years—and therefore have tried to show that we are open to argument and that the first review will be carried out in 2016. That will open to trying to work on a cross-party basis. We want be one year after the general election, which is a good to ensure that the Bill proceeds with the consent of and sensible moment for us to review royal finances. those in all parts of the House of Commons. I am also accepting the right hon. Gentleman’s amendment that proposes a five-yearly, instead of seven- I want briefly to deal with the shadow Chancellor’s yearly, review thereafter. In other words, in every Parliament, third and fourth questions. He asked about the issue of assuming that the fixed-term Parliament provisions are accountability, and he has tabled amendments proposing adhered to, the review will take place one year after the annual value-for-money studies. I would much rather general election. There will be a review in every Parliament, leave the discretion with the Comptroller and Auditor assuming that they are five-year Parliaments. General and the Public Accounts Committee. If they want to undertake such studies, they may do so, but I propose to leave that discretion with them. I remind the Mr Kevan Jones: Will the Chancellor explain how the Committee that we are undertaking a pretty historic controls over the reserve will work? Who will take the transfer of accountability to Parliament here. Parliament decisions about how it is spent? It does not take a genius has fought for many decades to get scrutiny of the or a financial wizard to work out that, if we draw down official expenditure of the royal family, and that is now the reserve, we can certainly keep up the annual income happening through the Bill. Of course, the Public Accounts at 15%. Who will have a say over how the reserve is Committee will be able to ask the Keeper of the Privy spent? Will the Government of the day have any control Purse, as the accounting officer, to come before it to over how it is spent? give evidence. Mr Osborne: First, the reserve will be audited by the Let me deal with the fourth question, which was National Audit Office, as the legislation makes clear. about royal protection. I am afraid that I will not be Secondly, the trustees of the royal finances—the Keeper able to answer the shadow Chancellor’s request here. I of the Privy Purse, who is the Queen’s appointment, but have looked into it and made quite a number of inquiries also the Chancellor and the Prime Minister of the to probe whether it would be possible for me to give the day—have oversight of the reserve. That is similar to Committee more information about how much is spent the current arrangement. The Chancellor of the on royal security. I have to say that I have run into a Exchequer—who undertakes this work more than the metaphorical brick wall in Whitehall, probably for very Prime Minister—and the Treasury will ensure that the good reason, which is that it would not be appropriate—this reserve is used for proper purposes. As I have said, the was a view taken by Home Secretaries over many years—to reserve is also accountable to the National Audit Office reveal how much was spent on royal security because and the Comptroller and Auditor General. that might present a security risk. Unfortunately, I am not able to accede to the shadow Chancellor’s request. Paul Flynn: I have listened carefully to what the Let me reassure the Committee, however, that in the Chancellor has said, but I am still baffled as to why a process, I have taken a look at the protection arrangements simple mechanism that could be easily understood has and costs, and I certainly satisfied myself that they are not been used, perhaps similar to the one used to reasonable, proportionate, in line with the current threat change pensions every year. Instead, we are to have a assessment and pretty cost-effective. I am fairly confident complex system under which, if the Crown Estate does that the Queen and her family are adequately protected. well, royalty will win, and if it does badly, the taxpayer I hope that I have answered the various questions will lose. asked. My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough asked a question about Frogmore, particularly the Mr Osborne: As I have said, we could have chosen mausoleum for Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. The another mechanism, but I thought that it was not royal household has confirmed that it expects to carry unreasonable to take a large, small-c conservatively run out conservation work on the mausoleum over the next property company to determine expenditure by the five to eight years, so in a few years’ time, my hon. royal household, given that a lot of its expenditure is on Friend will be able to visit a much restored and improved property maintenance and the like. I completely accept mausoleum at Frogmore. 543 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 544

Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): Given that the However, we also made clear that it was mausoleum is currently on the English Heritage buildings “the responsibility of Her Majesty’s Opposition to scrutinise the at risk register, will the Chancellor confirm whether actions of the Government to make sure that it is done in a fair what he announced means that it will shortly be removed and proper way”. from that register? Those are the guiding principles that lie behind today’s debates on clause 1 and, more widely, our amendments. Mr Osborne: The honest answer is that I have absolutely In that debate a fortnight ago, I cautioned the Chancellor no idea, but I will find out and let the hon. Gentleman that know. I might even be able to find out during this debate. “At a time when many families and businesses are under real financial pressure” Mr Kevan Jones rose— there was more work to be done, and a need for more “detail and reassurance” on Second Reading—which Mr Osborne: I give way one final time, but then I we have not had—or in Committee shall conclude. “to establish a consensus not only across the Dispatch Box but in the country as a whole in support of these reforms.”—[Official Mr Jones: Has not the Chancellor just confirmed Report, 30 June 2011; Vol. 530, c. 1150.] that we are giving the royal household freedom to spend I also asked the Chancellor to provide more clarity and the sovereign’s grant on additional properties? detail on the level of the sovereign grant and the wider [Interruption.] It is an additional property if the facts costs of the royal household, the arrangements for are understood. At the moment, the properties covered regular parliamentary scrutiny, and the mechanisms for by grant in aid are Buckingham palace, St James’s uprating the grant. palace, Clarence house and Marlborough House Mews, I thank the Chancellor for the detailed way in which the residency opposite Kensington palace, the Royal he has sought to answer those questions in the debate so Mews royal paddock and Windsor castle and the buildings far, and for the serious consideration that he has given in the Great park. Are we thus going to see an extension? to our amendments. I am also grateful to him for giving Who in the royal household makes the decision on that, Members more information than they were given two or does the Chancellor have any say over which other weeks ago. However, it is difficult to hold a debate such properties not currently covered by the grant in aid as this when time is so constricted, and I share the from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport can concern expressed about that by Members on both be added in, increasing costs? sides of the House. As I said to the Chancellor earlier, I think that he could have provided even more information Mr Osborne: We do not propose to add anything in. to help Members to understand the debate. Frogmore is part of the Windsor castle estate, or part of the Windsor Great park, which I am sure the hon. Setting the sovereign grant at 15% of Crown revenues Gentleman knew before he made his intervention. will mean, from next year until the end of the current Parliament, a 3.2% real-terms rise in the grant available Let me sum up this rather lengthy clause 1 stand part to the royal household. That is significant, and is set debate. We do not want a cut-price monarchy; nor do against a real-terms fall over the Parliament as a whole. we want an excessively lavish monarchy. What the country wants is a monarchy properly funded to do the job we Let me turn to the thinking behind our amendments, ask of it. It does that job well. Long may that continue. and respond to the points made by the Chancellor. It is I commend the clause to the Committee. right that Parliament and the National Audit Office should be properly able to scrutinise whether the Chancellor is setting the sovereign grant at the right level, given Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): I both the costs and the pressures on the royal household. commend your patience and flexibility, Mr Hoyle, in On one hand, the Queen has managed to deliver a 50% allowing this clause stand part debate to include the reduction in the total expenditure of the royal household status of mausoleums and the role of English Heritage, over the past two decades, but these proposals, and the which somewhat stretches the clause. Having a Second cash floor, effectively mean that the process of making Reading-type debate on clause stand part in this way is further efficiency savings has effectively come to an end. probably a revolutionary approach to parliamentary procedure. After the events of the last few days, that Mr Kevan Jones: I hear what my right hon. Friend may not be surprising. However, I should reassure the says, but unless we know the full amount of money that hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) is being paid to the royal household by other that he need not feel destabilised by my use of the word Departments—for instance, the Ministry of Defence—how “revolutionary” in this context. can we determine, first, that those efficiencies are real A fortnight ago, during the debate on the financial and this is not just about moving money across and, motion relating to the Bill, the Opposition made it clear secondly, that 15% is the right level? that “the monarchy continues, and must continue, to play a vital role Ed Balls: I shall deal with that point in a minute. in the affairs of our nation in the new century, but that to play this role and to command public support, the royal household must… Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): be financed in a proper, open and fair way”. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that if those costs We expressed our intention to support the Chancellor’s are indeed taken into account the reduction between proposals to reform the current 250-year-old arrangements 1991-92 and the present day becomes even greater? The and figures do not include, for instance, the royal yacht, “to strike a fair and workable balance between the legitimate which has been decommissioned and is no longer a needs of the household and the interests of the taxpayer.” burden on the Ministry of Defence. 545 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 546

Ed Balls: What concerns me is not the fall in expenditure we thank him for taking our concerns seriously and over the past 10 or 20 years, which most people would making sure Parliament will be able to take an early consider sensible—notwithstanding the issues raised by view on these arrangements. my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham On our third issue, however, I have a continuing (Mr Jones)—but the fact that we are set to see real-terms concern, which has prompted our amendment 8 to rises in the years ahead. That is where we should focus clause 7. The issue is the level of profits from the Crown our scrutiny. Estate. The Chancellor has told the House that On the other hand—on the side of the ledger that “we need a funding mechanism that prevents the sovereign coming does not feature efficiency savings—we are seeing rising to Parliament each year for resources, and that provides funding pressures on the royal family. As I said a couple of broadly in line with the growth of the economy…There will be a weeks ago, the combination of the success of the wonderful cash floor to protect the monarch from cash cuts, but basically royal wedding and the visit of the Duke and Duchess of the monarch will do as well as the economy is doing.”—[Official Report, 30 June 2011; Vol. 530, c. 1146.] Cambridge to Canada and the USA, following Her Majesty’s historic visit to Ireland, has resulted in a rise We do not know going forward that the figure of in both the popularity of the royal family and the 15% of Crown revenues will prove to rise in line with the demands on them around the world, and that trend is overall performance of the economy. That obviously set to continue. It is important that we scrutinise whether depends on the performance of the Crown Estate and the resources that are in place are sufficient and right. Crown revenues. As I pointed out, the Crown Estate income from renewables grew by 44% in the year 2009-10, I raised in the last debate the fact that it has been and it is widely expected to increase again in future reported that a number of members of the royal family years because of the financial potential of the exploitation have had their security reduced or removed over the of wind and tidal energy on the foreshore around the past year. I accept the Chancellor’s assurances that country. there are no concerns in that regard, but it was right The Crown Estate’s annual report describes current that we raised the issue. We have tabled amendments to growth as “exponential”and growth over the next 10 years clauses 2 and 4 that are designed to ensure both that as “significant”. Given the potentially significant changes there would be full and independent scrutiny of all the in income from renewables and, perhaps, wider sources, different aspects of royal expenditure, including the as well as the prospect that this could lead to an level of the grant and, more widely, value for money unintended rise in either reserves or, as described in the and the effective spending of resources across the piece, Bill, simply the overall level of expenditure, it is important and that the National Audit Office would have sufficient that the proposals are robust in meeting significant powers and resources to do that job. My hon. Friend unintended rises in revenues. the Member for North Durham asked about wider expenditure outside the sovereign grant. As I understand Some have called for a cap on the overall level of the it, it should now properly come within the purview of sovereign grant. Instead, we have tabled amendment 8, the NAO to look across the piece. In our upcoming which would require the trustees to review the arrangements debate on those clauses, perhaps we could receive an if the Crown Estate’s income were to rise faster in the assurance that the NAO will be able to look at all the previous financial year than the underlying trend growth budgets, not just this particular one. Clearly, the NAO rate of the economy. I think that the public would will not be able to reach a judgment on value for money expect the trustees to review matters immediately if in terms of royal household expenditure under this revenues were to rise much faster than had been expected. grant unless it can do so in the context of the other I also think that the amendment is fully consistent not expenditures by Government Departments for the royal only with the spirit of the Chancellor’s reforms, but household. It is important to maintain royal protection with their detailed intention, as he set out in his spending and security, but protecting value for money is also review speech. Therefore, I ask him to look at the issue important. The NAO and the Public Accounts Committee again over the next hour and a half. Our proposal is will need to respond to the issue my hon. Friend has fully consistent with protecting stability for the monarchy raised and make sure they can see the full picture. I say and the proper role of Parliament in scrutinising the again that we seek assurances in the upcoming debate arrangements. In order to ensure that his reforms are on those clauses that the NAO will be able to look right implemented as he intended, we should agree to the across the royal household’s expenditures, rather than amendment. only at the expenditure financed by the sovereign grant. The Chancellor has moved very much in our direction Paul Flynn: As I understand it, the royal trustees are on our second issue. I argued a couple of weeks ago the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Keeper of that, given the historic importance of these reforms and the Privy Purse. Does my right hon. Friend not think the inevitable uncertainties at the beginning of a new that we would get a more balanced decision if Members financing regime, Parliament would need to keep a of this House were represented among the trustees? closer eye on the arrangements. I also said that that They would give a much better opinion than the needed to be consistent with the Chancellor’s proper establishment one on this issue. desire to give the royal household stability and certainty. In our judgment, waiting seven years for a review, and Ed Balls: It is obviously nostalgic for me to be back in certainly seven years for the first review, was too long. Committee debating with the Chancellor of the Exchequer In our amendments to clause 7, we propose that the across the Dispatch Box, although I would remind my first review should happen in the period up to April hon. Friend—these moments have been rare in my 2015—three years from now—with five-yearly reviews parliamentary career—that the Chancellor and the Prime after that. The Chancellor has gone pretty much to Minister are both Members of this House. Therefore, where we would like to be on these matters. Therefore, they are representatives of both the Government and 547 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 548 the House of Commons in those discussions. The important views have always been expressed here, and in the thing is that the trustees should not be able to sit on 1971 debates considerably stronger views were put by their hands if there is an unexpected surge in revenues Members on the Opposition Front Bench than anything that is faster than the trend growth rate of the economy. that has been said in this debate, where we have sought When the trustees produce a report, Parliament should to help the Chancellor to deliver the intention of his be able to scrutinise it properly, after a report of the reforms. That is the motivation behind our amendments. NAO. The latter is clearly set out in the legislation, but It is important to say that we are debating a significant at the moment, whether there is a review in the five-year reform; it is the biggest reform of the royal finances period is at the discretion of the trustees. Parliament since the accession of King George III in 1760. I read should legislate today to say, “If you see something through the Hansard record of the contributions made happening to revenues that is outside the Chancellor’s in recent decades by my hon. Friend, so I thought that I intentions as clearly set out by him, then there should should read the pre-Hansard record of the debate and be an immediate review.” It would still be for the trustees resolution in this House on 25 November 1760, when to decide what recommendation to make. We are not the then Government set out clearly their view that the imposing a cap, because although some would like that, use of the revenues of the Crown Estate was for Parliament it would be outside the Chancellor’s intentions. I said to determine. [Interruption.] I do not know whether the from the beginning that I would support his reforms, hon. Member for North East Somerset recalls that and our amendment 8 delivers his reforms in detail. particular debate. Therefore, I hope that he will reconsider and support In the recent House of Commons Library note on our amendment. these matters provided to Members, the clear view of the experts in this House was: Mr Kevan Jones: I think the Chancellor has tried to have an effect on that by, for example, putting a cap on “The Crown Estate is not the personal property of the Monarch. It cannot be sold by the Monarch, nor do any profits from it go to the reserve, but does my right hon. Friend agree that it is the sovereign.” also important to see how the reserve is spent? I said to the Chancellor that it does not take a genius or a I think that that is the position as things stand. It was financial wizard to work out that the way to do it is by also the argument made on 25 November 1760 by the keeping the reserve as low as possible by spending the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Henry Bilson Legge— money, so the Government’s proposals will actually probably a relative of the hon. Gentleman—who said lead to more inefficiency, rather than driving up efficiency. that it was for Parliament to determine the use of these revenues and that they should do so in a manner Ed Balls: As I said, part of the motivation behind our “as may best conduce to the utility and satisfaction of the amendments to the clauses that deal with the role of the public.” NAO is precisely to ensure that the value-for-money In return, at the end of that debate the House resolved question is at the centre of the NAO’s thinking and the that PAC’s reports to this House. I am happy with “there be granted to his Majesty, during his life, such a revenue” the Chancellor’s view that it should be for the PAC and as would the NAO to decide when to do those reports, but they “support of his Majesty’s household, and of the honour and clearly cannot have a report looking at value for money dignity of the crown”. without looking at all aspects, and that includes all expenditure that is financed by the taxpayer, and the use That was how the House of Commons resolved that of reserves. For Parliament, that is the right mechanism. issue on that day. I understand that not everyone in the House will agree For 250 years, the Crown Estate has been at the with those proposals, which is why it is important to get disposal of this Parliament but, as then so today, it is on to that debate. the responsibility of Parliament to ensure that a fair and proper balance is struck between the interests of 3.45 pm the taxpaying public and the needs and dignity of the royal household. As we enter the second decade of Sadly, my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover the 21st century, that is our task, not just today, but in (Mr Skinner) is not here, but in the last debate I referred the months and years to come. to the fact that he voted against these reforms when they were last debated in substance in this House in 1971 and mentioned his barracking of Norman St John- Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): I am humbled, Stevas from a sedentary position. I have since checked Mr Evans, that you should have called me before my my hon. Friend’s subsequent contributions. In recent hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset years, he has questioned Chancellors and Prime Ministers (Jacob Rees-Mogg). I am grateful that there is somebody regularly in this House, doing so most recently in the who is even more royalist and reactionary than me in July 2000 debate on the renewal of the civil list. His best the Chamber; my hon. Friend reminds me of one of the contribution came when he described the £7.9 million French courtiers who was plus royaliste que le roi—more civil list settlement to Her Majesty as royalist than the king—and that is no bad thing. “a pretty big winter heating allowance…If the Prime Minister Of course I agree with the substance of what my right really wants to save money, the answer is to kill two birds with one hon. Friend the Chancellor is trying to do today, but I stone by shipping them off to the millennium dome, where they hope that he will accept a couple of bits of advice or can have a zone apiece.”—[Official Report, 4 July 2000; Vol. 353, warnings. The constitutional position of the monarch c. 164-5.] and Back Benchers is rather similar: we warn and we That option is not now available to the Chancellor of advise. The difference is that the Queen does so in the Exchequer and it is not one that would find any private and is listened to and we do so in public and support from Members on the Labour Benches. Strong were never listened to, but we will try our best. 549 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 550

[Mr Edward Leigh] Why do I think that is dangerous? Let me make it clear that I am not against the move in any way. I [Interruption.] Well, perhaps we are listened to sometimes. welcome it and I am grateful that the Chancellor had a I am a bit worried about some parts of the Bill, particularly private word to brief me on this before he made his about how fixed in concrete the sum of money is. announcement. I am grateful for what he is doing, We all know that there is no point having the British which is in response to the constant campaign that we monarchy as a cycling monarchy or having it on the members of the PAC have waged for many years to have cheap. I know from my experience of looking at the greater transparency. No present or previous member accounts during the last two Parliaments that they are of the PAC and nobody in Parliament doubts that we right on the edge of the £34 million. If one was trying to want more transparency about the public duties, the maintain extremely expensive buildings—I am not official travel, the official expenses and so on. That is just talking about Frogmore now, but about large and modern, transparent and right. complex buildings such as Buckingham palace or places The difficulty is where we draw the line. I am worried such as Windsor great park—one would struggle. Some that the PAC and the Comptroller and Auditor General people, particularly in this House and particularly those will gradually be dragged into the debate on precisely with a slightly republican bent, might say that we are all the sort of point that the hon. Member for Newport making sacrifices, but this is part of our national heritage West (Paul Flynn) has made. How will the system work? and it is not as if they are living in anything like the The CAG will effectively be able to look at everything, whole palace. They have a modest flat: as we know from but a defence is built into clause 13. The clause states: one of the tabloid stings, the Queen lives very modestly “Any reference to the support of Her Majesty’s official duties with her Tupperware in a small flat in Buckingham includes the maintenance of Royal Palaces and related land.” palace. Ultimately, we, the public, are benefiting from That is fair enough. Subsection (9) states: Buckingham palace, Windsor and St James’s palace and “Any reference to the Royal Household if limited to that they must be properly maintained. I am not sure whether Household so far as it is concerned with the support of Her we might need looser arrangements so that—I will not Majesty’s official duties.” use the phrase “raid the reserves”—there is some sort of The clause also states: mechanism to handle that. Will the Chancellor comment “Any reference to the use of resources is to their expenditure, on that when he sums up? It is terribly important that consumption or reduction in value.” there should not be a constant constraint on the treasurer of the royal household to skimp on maintaining the I suspect that subsection (9) was included to try to royal palaces, because that is clearly happening at the prevent the whole debate from widening to cover the moment. private travel, private expenses and private servants of the royal family. Why is there a danger?

Paul Flynn: One example of many of royal spending Paul Flynn: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? was a trip by Prince Charles and Camilla from Buckingham palace to Balmoral for which the taxpayer—[Interruption.] Mr Leigh: May I make some progress first? I want to develop this point and if the hon. Gentleman is not Jacob Rees-Mogg: On a point of order, Mr Evans. I satisfied he can come back to me. wonder whether you would rule on the correct way of If the PAC was a normal Select Committee that set referring to Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales its own agenda, we would have some people who were and the Duchess of Cornwall. very pro-royal family and some who were not so pro, and there would be tremendous pressure on the Chairman The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel in private sessions, with people saying, “We want to Evans): I think that respect for members of the royal look at this aspect of travel,” “Why did the Prince of family is warranted and it would therefore be appropriate Wales make this official trip and spend all this money,” to show proper respect in referring to them in the or “Why did they bring all their servants?” There would House. be a great argy-bargy. At the moment, our defence is that, uniquely, the PAC’s agenda is set not by the Committee or politicians but by the Comptroller and Paul Flynn: I shall ask the question again. Is it an Auditor General. That acts as a kind of backstop to example of people with financial limits skimping when protect the royal family, but the changes could bring a the heir to the throne and his wife take a journey that real danger for them. Why? Because we do not live in an costs £29,000 without any public engagements being entirely fair world. involved—the journey was a private one—and send that The royal family is not like the Department for Work bill to the taxpayers? and Pensions—I shall not labour this point because I made it in the last debate on this. When the PAC looks Mr Leigh: I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman at the DWP or another Department, it does its work has made that point. He is making the precise point I and investigates the spending of billions of pounds, want to make, although we come from different directions, which is sometimes spent wisely and often not so wisely. of course. That is the danger. As so often happens in the With those reports there is limited public interest and House of Commons, we are rushing at things and there the report tends to get into The Times, the Financial are many unforeseen consequences; it would have been Times or the serious pages of The Guardian. With the preferable to consider the Bill more closely and for royal family, things are completely different: not only is longer. The point that the hon. Gentleman has made there massive public interest and huge pressure from will be made in the Public Accounts Committee and journalists, but some newspapers have an agenda of such subjects will be dragged into the public debate. constantly attacking the royal family and its members. 551 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 552

Paul Flynn: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? a bill to the taxpayer for a private visit. May I take him back to his previous speech to the House on this issue in Mr Leigh: I am going to develop my point; the hon. which he spoke as the former Chairman of the Public Gentleman can come in later. Accounts Committee—the guardian of the taxpayer’s We have seen that agenda in the Daily Mail campaign interest—when he said that he had approved royal against the Prince of Wales and in the Murdoch press— spending that he described as “fantastically wasteful”? against many members of the royal family. We are Is that the way to guard the taxpayer’s interest? getting into dangerous territory. Mr Leigh: The fact is that we must take everything in the round. I was making comparisons with the Heads of Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): Will my hon. State of Germany and Italy, which are republican Friend give way? institutions that cost more and have virtually no public impact whatsoever and do nothing for the economy. I Mr Leigh: Let me go on a bit and then I shall give am afraid that it makes absolutely no sense in providing way to both hon. Members, as I want to be fair to both value for money to Great Britain plc to get rid of the sides. monarchy. I do not accept that the institution of the When I was the Chairman of the Committee I put no monarchy is fantastically wasteful. pressure on the Comptroller and Auditor General, but members of the Committee, including the hon. Member 4pm for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson), who is present, Mr Spencer: Does my hon. Friend agree that, as we Mr Alan Williams and others quite rightly had serious are talking not only about the Head of State but about questions about the royal family. They took a particular the next in line to the crown of this great nation of ours, view and were always agitating for us to do more work, they should be allowed to travel in such a manner? Can but I was able to say that it was not my decision. It was he imagine a circumstance where the President of the the decision of the Comptroller and Auditor General United States arrived in the UK on easyJet? We should who, frankly, took quite a conservative approach and be proud that the head of this nation is allowed to travel did not allow many reports to come to the Committee in such style. or do much initial work. Although there is massive public and media interest in this issue, particularly in Mr Leigh: We live in such a public world now that the the tabloid press, there is much more important work Prime Minister took Ryanair when he went on holiday. that we need to be doing on public expenditure. Hon. Members might ask what I am worried about, Mr Davidson: I am grateful to the former Chairman given that we can surely rely on the Comptroller and of the Public Accounts Committee for giving way, and I Auditor General—although I think that he will be have to tell my colleagues that he is not nearly as bad a under a lot of pressure via members of the PAC because man as he often appears. Does he accept that there is a they are eternally under pressure from the media to difference between what the royal family undertake as raise these sorts of questions. Why am I worried about their public duties, which should, quite rightly, be examined all this? Because I wonder whether clause 13 is an by the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority adequate defence. How do we define exactly what are or a similar organisation, and what they undertake in the private affairs of the Queen? We know what she their private lives, which should not be accessible to the does in the homes that she owns—in Sandringham or public? Does he accept that extravagances in their private Balmoral. We know about the gardener and the cook lives should not be charged to the public purse? That she employs and about private travel around the estate. really is the difference. Like the hon. Gentleman, I That is completely out of all this. but what about what recognise that we do not wish to intrude into every goes on in Buckingham palace and Windsor great park? element of that family’s life; but if they do not want us Is the Comptroller and Auditor General going to be to intrude, they should not charge such things to the under pressure to investigate value for money, the number public. of servants and what happens with the private office? When does official travel start and when does private Mr Leigh: I am not sure whether the Queen or the travel start? There have been attacks on Prince Andrew Prince of Wales charges “extravagant” aspects of their for taking official trips and then going on elsewhere to private lives to the public purse, but what worries me is play golf. There will be more and more pressure mounting that if Prince Charles went on an official trip to America all the time and that could be extraordinarily damaging and took so many hairdressers, butlers, private secretaries to the royal family, which is a very fragile institution. In and all the rest, the media and the hon. Gentleman, if no other major country is there a royal family; it survives he was still a member of the PAC, would immediately on public opinion and I am afraid that there are some demand a public inquiry, and there would be a gradual people, particularly in the tabloid press, who simply are drip, drip of attacks in the tabloid press against the not fair and who want to go on pushing and pushing royal family. We should be aware of that and warn because they want as damaging a story as possible. I about it. That is why the role of the Comptroller and shall now give way to the hon. Member for Newport Auditor General is absolutely crucial; he is not a politician. West because he asks about precisely the sort of story The reason I am making these remarks—if he reads that they will try to raise through the National Audit Hansard—is that he must stand firm and make an Office and the PAC. overall judgment.

Paul Flynn: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for Mr Davidson: I can assure the House that, when I giving way, although I am sorry that he has not answered have travelled abroad, I have certainly never taken a my question about why a multi-millionaire should send hairdresser with me. 553 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 554

[Mr Davidson] Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con) rose— The sort of rules that apply to the Prime Minister ought to apply to the royal family in this context. The The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Prime Minister and senior members of the Government Evans): Is the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) must have a certain degree of support and status when giving way, or has he sat down? they travel abroad on parliamentary and official business. The royals similarly ought to have some status when Mr Leigh: My hon. and learned Friend the Member they travel abroad. However, the two ought to be for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) is comparable. To be fair, the Prime Minister has never desperate to get in, so I give way to him. taken hairdressers, butlers, valets, chauffeurs or anything similar with him. Stephen Phillips: I am not sure that I have ever been desperate to get into anything. I think it was in 2005, Mr Leigh: This debate is useful in a way, because it when my hon. Friend was the Chairman of the Public shows precisely the problem. I understand that the Accounts Committee, that the Committee published a Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have taken extremely report, which he will probably remember, that drew modest entourages and staff on previous trips. Apparently, attention to a potential conflict of interest between the the Duchess has had more than 37 different changes of Duke of Cornwall and future Dukes of Cornwall. That outfit in America and Canada. I do not suppose that is not addressed at all in the Bill. Does he share my hope the Prime Minister or even the hon. Gentleman changes that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer his outfit 37 times when he goes on Select Committee will deal with that point in his wind-up, and that the trips abroad. There is a completely different order of Government will look at the issue in future? scale between a Head of State, who is part of the ornamental part of the constitution and who represents Mr Leigh: That is a serious and important point. We our country, and even the Prime Minister. If we are now have had mention of the Duchy of Cornwall; I should to have questions and relentless pressure in the PAC say that we did some trailblazing work in our hearing about how many dresses need to be taken on every royal about the duchy. The hon. Member for Glasgow South trip, it will be ridiculous, and it would start to make the West (Mr Davidson) will remember that we ranged royal family look more and more ridiculous. That is widely over all aspects of its management. One of the what I am warning against. issues that we raised was whether we should maximise resources—income and capital—for the present Mr Kevan Jones: Does the hon. Gentleman think that Duke of Cornwall, or for future generations. I hope this country’s defence budget should subsidise the royal that the Chancellor can also reply to that point when he flight? If we believe what was reported in The Mail on winds up. Sunday last week, the Ministry of Defence did the right thing by charging the going rate for use of the royal flight. Only because of complaints to the Chancellor of Several hon. Members rose— the Exchequer by the Prince of Wales was that amount reduced. Therefore, every flight that the royal family The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel takes is being subsidised by the defence budget. That Evans): As Members can see, there are at least six cannot be right. people trying to get in on the debate on this clause; we are incredibly time-limited, and I ask people to respect Mr Leigh: I do not know the exact truth about that that. particular aspect. Mr Kevan Jones: The aim of the Bill is right: to Mr Osborne: The part about my involvement is provide the sovereign with the funds that she and other completely untrue. members of the royal family require to do their public duties. I do not think that there is any disagreement on Mr Leigh: All that I know—the Public Accounts that at all. Committee having had all those accounts over the past two decades—is that steps are constantly being taken to On the point about how we arrived at 15%, I welcome deliver a better-value-for-money monarchy. If that is the Chancellor’s acceptance of some of the amendments not true, why has the cost gone down from £49 million in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for to £34 million? I shall sit down now, because we are only Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls), but there are a few on clause 1 stand part. questions still to be answered. I understand why the amount is set at 15%—to get to the figure of £34 million Paul Flynn rose— in future years—but my concern is that if we are to have a proper look at what the sovereign costs, we should Mr Leigh: I will not give way; I have already given include all costs, and then determine that the Government way to the hon. Gentleman once. I want to emphasise or state should provide the money to the sovereign for this point to the Chancellor: I hope that there is a carrying out those duties. flexible arrangement, so that we can protect the structure I accept that there is greater transparency under the of the royal palaces. I sincerely hope that the Comptroller Bill, which is welcome, but the hon. Member for and Auditor General will take a very conservative—with Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) seems to think that we will a small c—view of his responsibilities when he draws up somehow be intruding into areas into which we should reports, and that he will focus them absolutely and not go. I am sorry, but if we are talking about public firmly on the public duties of the royal family, in the money, its spending has to be scrutinised, as does the spirit of the Bill. spending of public money by any Government Department. 555 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 556

My concern is that we arrived at the £34 million figure, from the defence budget, which I do not think is right. based on 15%, without taking into account the moneys If the full cost of the royal flight is £13,000 an hour, the that go from Government Departments to the royal Government should pay for that to support members of household to support the royal family in their duties. I the royal family who need to travel on official duties. I shall talk about defence, an area that I know more have no problem with that, but I have a problem with about, as a former Defence Minister. where it comes from and how it is accounted for. A large number of individuals in the armed forces—I have asked how many—have a role supporting the royal Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): Does the household. Some people might question whether that is hon. Gentleman not accept that these military equerries necessary, but I think that it is, because they play an and the like are on secondment from military duties? important role in supporting the monarch and other They remain military officers in the service of the members of the royal family. However, I do not think Crown via the Ministry of Defence, so it is quite appropriate that the costs involved should come out of the defence that they should be paid by the Ministry of Defence? budget, as they currently do. The costs should be taken from the moneys we pay to support the sovereign’s Mr Jones: No, I am not suggesting that somehow work, because those men and women of the armed they should be taken out of the military while they do forces clearly do an important job in supporting the these duties, because there is an important link between sovereign in her duties as Head of State, but we do not the royal household and the military, but I do not think know what those costs amount to. that they should be paid for from the defence budget Similarly, is it legitimate for Her Majesty the Queen while they are on these duties. In trying to get full and other members of the royal family to use private transparency in what the royal household costs and aircraft for state duties? I fully support that, not just therefore what the sovereign grant should be, we need to from a security point of view, but because of the status know about all these other costs so that we assess what that we wish to give members of the royal family when is needed to support the sovereign in her work as Head they represent this country on royal duties, as my hon. of State. There needs to be transparency. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson) The Chancellor said earlier that the NAO could look suggested. However, I do not think that the defence at this, but there is nothing in the Bill that says it will budget should be used to subsidise that expenditure. look at costs in kind in relation to the Ministry of For example, if it costs a set amount for the RAF to fly Defence and other budgets. If we are to ensure that the Her Majesty or any other member of the royal family royal household has the money needed for the royal somewhere, that amount should rightly be met by the family to do their official duties, it is important that taxpayer if it is an official duty. there is transparency and that the costs do not fall on the Ministry of Defence, for example. Mr Spencer: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that Some people argue that there should be a cap every defending our nation includes defending our Head of year on the sovereign grant. That is possibly a bit too State? blunt a mechanism. I accept what the Chancellor has said about the size of the reserve. However, if we are to Mr Jones: Yes, but what I am talking about does not ensure that the efficiencies that have taken place so far relate to security. I am talking about equerries and in the royal household continue, we need to consider other people who play a vital role in running the royal not only how the sovereign grant, but the reserve, is household and who are important in Her Majesty’s spent each year. It would be quite easy to run the representational role. In the previous debate people reserve down each year to ensure that more money is tried to conflate the two issues, but I am talking about needed every year. There needs to be some scrutiny of ceremonial duties that are being paid for from the exactly how the reserve is spent. defence budget. 4.15 pm Dr Murrison: Until recently the hon. Gentleman was The next issue is what the sovereign grant is spent on. a Defence Minister, and a very good one, so I wonder, At the moment, some of the arrangements are totally since he feels so passionately about this, what efforts he inefficient in that the Government are paying the royal made to identify those costs. household and then being paid back for services. There is a debate to be had about whether the royal palaces are Mr Jones: I also chaired the value for money group in royal households or part of the history of this country the Ministry of Defence, and those costs were on the that should be paid for by the taxpayer. The places radar screen for the work it was carrying out. There is a currently covered by grant in aid are Buckingham palace, sense of grievance in the MOD and the armed forces St James’s palace, Clarence house, the Royal Mews, the that this money comes out of the defence budget. There residence and offices in the area of Kensington palace, should be some recognition of this vital work, but it the royal paddock at Hampton Court, and Windsor should not come out of the defence budget. That would castle and the buildings in Home park and Great park. also avoid the nonsense that we saw last week in The The list is quite well defined. It would be interesting to Mail on Sunday, which claimed that the Prince of Wales know whether the sovereign grant will be limited to being and other members of the royal family stopped using spent on those places or there will be flexibility to use the royal flight because the cost was being charged to the money for other households. In 1990, Marlborough the royal household. I understand that after representations house was added to the list of properties that the were made to the Treasury the cost was reduced by Department for Culture, Media and Sport supports £6,000 an hour for the use of one of the royal flights. through grant in aid. To ensure that we are not cross- Therefore, a basic subsidy is going to the royal household subsidising things that are already covered, it will be 557 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 558 important for the Chancellor or the trustees to clarify For this “prepared speech” and exactly what the sovereign grant could be spent on; “divers offensive matters touching Her Majesty” otherwise, other properties that are not currently covered he was taken prisoner to the Tower and held there for a by the civil list or grant in aid payments could be month at the insistence of the House of Commons. I included. That is an important point. must say that I think they knew how to behave in 1575, I take the point made by the hon. Member for and it is a model for us today. Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) about the titillation factor in I want to come on to who really owns the Crown looking at what the royal household spends money on. Estate, because that is important in this discussion. However, the core point is that this is Government— That is why I intervened on the Chancellor, and I am public—money. If we do not want the royal family to be grateful to him for taking my intervention. It is important denigrated but rather to gain support for them, one way to remember that the Crown Estate is the property of would be to ensure that the sovereign grant is well spent the sovereign in an ultimate sense, though gifted for a and that people see that that is the case. We accept that reign. The importance of that is that the sovereign some items are very expensive to undertake, such as the therefore has a right to ask for money. One might think upkeep of royal palaces and—I have to agree with the that they would get the money anyway, but sovereigns hon. Member for Gainsborough—the way in which have been promised money by Parliament that has been people have to travel for security reasons, but there must stopped. One just needs to go back to Charles II, who be an emphasis on ensuring that the taxpayer gets value handed over all his feudal dues to the Government for for money. That is a way of strengthening support for £100,000 a year in perpetuity for all his heirs and the sovereign and the work that she and her family do successors. I am not sure that that £100,000 has been on behalf of the nation. If we going to get this right, paid once in the last three hundred and some odd years. and the Bill is a good attempt at trying to do so, we The Crown, by virtue of owning the Crown Estate, can must ensure that we not only get value for money but guarantee that it is entitled to a revenue. The fact that at are very clear and honest to everybody about all moneys the beginning of each reign it could theoretically demand that are spent on supporting the sovereign in the work the Crown Estate back is important reassurance and a that she does. reassertion of that right.

Michael Ellis: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): Is my hon. Friend conscious of the fact that at the time of the secret treaty Mr Jones: I was about to conclude, but go on. of Dover in 1670, the Crown would not recall Parliament because Louis XIV insisted that we should do what the Michael Ellis: The hon. Gentleman refers to concern French and the rest of the Europeans wanted, in return about value for money. Does he accept that the royal for which he would give enough money to Charles II to family bring in hundreds of millions of pounds to the keep him in with his mistresses and the royal household state every year as juxtaposed with the few millions that in the manner to which he felt he should be accustomed? it costs to run the royal family, most of which is spent Jacob Rees-Mogg: I remember the secret treaty of on public buildings? Dover well, although I was not an active participant. However, it is not particularly relevant to this debate. It Mr Jones: That is another debate and it is difficult to has to be borne in mind that Louis XIV did not deliver quantify what the hon. Gentleman says is brought in. I the cash, which is always a slight problem in such do not just look at this in terms of money, but take the negotiations. more fundamental view that we have a Head of State The Crown Estate belongs to the sovereign. Any and should support her in the work that she does on other great landowner who has inherited land owns that behalf of this nation. What I am saying is that we need property outright and is free to pass it from generation to be clear about what that costs. We should be honest to generation. The Crown Estate is in that position. We about how much it costs, even if it costs more than have discussed before whether, because it is exempt £34 million, and not hide the way in which moneys from death duties or because it used to be used to pay are spent. for Government expenditure, it is in some sense different I broadly welcome the thrust of the Bill, but I hope and the nation’s. I would argue that that reasoning is that the NAO report looks not just at how royal expenditure not accurate. In the same way that the feudal duties that is spent on the sovereign grant, but at other moneys that fell upon other landowners were abolished as time went are paid to the royal household. It might suggest, for on, so the Crown Estate would in all normal circumstances example, that the money that comes from the Ministry have become the Queen’s outright. of Defence should not come out of defence expenditure. I therefore go back to my point, which the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) dislikes, that Jacob Rees-Mogg: The shadow Chancellor concluded the Queen pays an 85% tax rate. There would be his remarks by saying that he had looked up the Commons £200 million or more in income for the Queen every Journal for 1760. He is, of course, a very modern man. I year, but in fact there will be only about £30 million. So went a little earlier and looked up the Commons Journal Her Majesty is the highest-paying taxpayer in this country. for 1575. I thank the Library for its assistance in helping Members of Parliament might like to think that we me to find what I was looking for. I was looking for the could do a deal with the Government, hand over our behaviour of the House towards a Mr Peter Wentworth, salary and be given £9,000 a year back. a man who represented a Cornish seat and had the temerity to criticise the then sovereign, Elizabeth I. He Mr Davidson: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise said that that there is a distinction between the monarch as an “none is without fault, no, not our noble Queen”. individual and the monarchy as an institution? The 559 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 560

Crown Estate is the property of the state, inasmuch as it changed by the fact that many hon. Members, who are is the property of the monarchy as an institution, not forced to say an oath—they have no choice—put a the monarch as an individual. It is therefore untrue to preamble to that oath that alters its meaning? The say that the monarch as an individual is paying 85% tax. process of a decision to go to war was changed when the House decided to vote on wars in 2003, and probably Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am very grateful to the hon. on all future wars. Gentleman, but I think it is immeasurably confusing when we start trying to divide the Queen up in that way. Jacob Rees-Mogg: There is a completely separate Her Majesty is our sovereign, full stop. She is one question, outside the remit of this debate, on the prerogative person, indivisible. She is not the trinity—Her Majesty powers. It has well been established that the prerogative the Queen, Her Majesty Mrs Windsor and Her Majesty can be bound by legislation, and legislation comes from the third party of the trinity. It does not work like that. this House. However, that has very little to do with the She is one sovereign individual. Crown Estate and the financing of our sovereign, which, The next point that I want to make is one on which I as I said, is something that we should do properly. agree, as I often do, actually, with the right hon. Member We then have the question of scrutiny and the Public for North Durham. [HON.MEMBERS: “Honourable.”] I Accounts Committee. I make no bones about it, I think am so sorry, the hon. Member for North Durham it is inelegant, ungallant and improper to look at every (Mr Jones). It is in Her Majesty’s gift, of course, to biscuit that Her Majesty wishes to buy. I think Her promote him, and perhaps she might have looked more Majesty should have as many biscuits as she likes, and if favourably on that if he had been a bit more loyal in his they are chocolate Bath Olivers rather than Rich Tea, so comments. However, I agree with his point that we have be it. I just do not think it right for a Committee of this to pay for the constitution that we have. The Queen is House to look into that. not here to bring in tourism and things like that. She is here as an essential part of our constitution. That is 4.30 pm why it is worth the military taking on the costs of sending attachés and so on and so forth. The military There is a risk—my hon. Friend the Member for owe their loyalty to the Crown, not to politicians, senior Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) put this incredibly well, as he generals or people who could abuse that power to always does—of people using that for political advantage. change how this country is run. That may have changed, because yesterday, sitting in Our constitutional settlement, which works this Chamber, we suddenly discovered that all politicians extraordinarily well and has worked well for hundreds now loathe the press and think that they are not worth of years, is worth paying for. On that basis, we get dealing with, so my previous concern that members of stability as a nation and the effective operation of our the Public Accounts Committee might use investigating constitutional system. The judges owe loyalty to the the monarchy to get publicity is clearly no longer true, Crown; the military owe loyalty to the Crown; we, as because they so dislike the press that even to appear on Members of Parliament, swear an oath to the Crown. It the front page of the newspapers would be such an is the Crown that is at the pinnacle of our constitution, embarrassment that they would eschew the opportunity. outside and above politics and a defender of our liberties. However, times may change again, and it is of serious Indeed, as Charles I said at the scaffold, he died the concern to me that the Public Accounts Committee martyr of the people, because he had been defending could spend time looking at the £35 million spent on the the liberties of the people, as the Queen has done now sovereign grant rather than at the £6 billion that was for jolly nearly 60 years. We must be willing to pay the wasted by the Ministry of Defence. We really do not right price for our constitutional settlement, and I think want to get into a situation in which the PAC concentrates that should be a generous price. on something that is de minimis in the broader scheme of things because that is more appealing in terms of Michael Ellis: Does my hon. Friend agree that the publicity. fact that each sovereign since 1760 has been asked by Let me conclude—[Interruption.] Thank you. Let successive Governments to sign over the proceeds of the me conclude with the words of Her Majesty on her 21st Crown Estate, in and of itself, proves that the estate birthday in South Africa: belongs not to the country but to the person of the “I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long sovereign? or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.” Jacob Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend is of course right. Mr Evans, God save the Queen. It is often said that Her Majesty is the golden thread that binds our nation together, and the key part of that The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel phrase is the word “golden”. Her Majesty is not the Evans): Follow that, Mr Davidson! cotton thread, or the silver thread, or the woollen thread, she is a golden thread that binds the nation Mr Davidson: It is difficult to follow a speech like that together as one unique, great and noble nation. because in many ways, it took the biscuit.

Paul Flynn rose— Chris Ruane: Bourbon! Jacob Rees-Mogg: It is always an honour to give way to the hon. Gentleman. Mr Davidson: Of course, as my hon. Friend says, that biscuit would be a Bourbon. Paul Flynn: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for It is worth while clarifying the question of the ownership giving way before he goes into hyper-rant. Does he of the Crown Estate. Is it owned by the monarch as an realise that the fantasy that he is describing has been individual or the monarchy as an institution? When the 561 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 562

[Mr Davidson] has spent over the past five years. On average, £34 million of public money has been given per year through various Public Accounts Committee looked at this matter, there forms of grant and money drawn from a reserve built was a consistent attempt by officers of the monarchy to up using public money. I have said that that is not a bad confuse and conflate the two. We need to ask ourselves guide for the future and that 15% of Crown Estate this question: were the monarchy abolished, would Crown revenue will provide that amount over the rest of the Estate moneys and properties belong to the deposed Parliament. In 2016, we will review whether that is the monarch as an individual or would they remain with right amount. the state? It is quite clear that they would remain with the state. Therefore, the moneys and the estates are not Mr Cash: The Chancellor referred just now to something the property of the individual who happens to be the that I found difficult to accept. He distinguished between monarch at any particular time. That clarifies a number a cut-price monarchy and a lavish monarchy. Given Her of things. Majesty’s incredibly distinguished performance over the past nearly 60 years, to which my hon. Friend the Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Will the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) Gentleman give way? referred, does he appreciate that this is not about being lavish, but about effectiveness and dignity? Mr Davidson: No, I want to proceed because we are short of time. Mr Osborne: I agree that it is all about effectiveness I am seeking clarification from the Chancellor, who, I and dignity, and I think that the Bill strikes the right remember, was on the Public Accounts Committee when balance between those who say that the monarchy is he was a young whippersnapper—I have often wondered spending too much and those who say that it is not what happened to him since. Will the National Audit getting enough money for its official duties. The Bill has Office, the interventions of which I will welcome, also been discussed with the royal household, and it is be able to look at all elements of royal involvement? In content with it, which is why the whole process began particular, can it look at the royal art collection, about with a Gracious message. which there were serious discussions and disputes in the I want to clear up a misunderstanding. There will be past? That would seem to be covered by what he has a real-terms increase in the annual sums that Parliament said, but it is not immediately clear. provides, but that is because the royal household has Is the Crown Estate the right body to take into been relying on a reserve of public money that has built account when determining the monarch’s income? Those up over time. That reserve has come to an end, and as I of us on the Public Accounts Committee who examined said a couple of weeks ago, the previous Chancellor of the Duchy of Cornwall’s accounts were absolutely clear the Exchequer, perfectly reasonably when confronted that the Duke of Cornwall was manipulating the money with this issue before the general election, said, “I think involved, by playing a major role in determining the we’ll wait until after the general election and let whoever amounts of expenditure and income, thereby determining are the Government then deal with it.” We are here how much money came, or was available, to him as an because we have been relying on a reserve of public individual. money that has run out. However, with the mechanism Quite clearly, the Crown Estate could be leant on by we are putting in place there will be a real-terms reduction the monarchy to make decisions on expenditure and of up to 9%—on our estimates—in public support for income in the short term to affect the amount of grant the royal household. that the royal family receive. The grant would then be The shadow Chancellor and others, including the on, as it were, a golden ratchet—a bit like EU expenditure, hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson), it would always go up, and never down. There is clearly asked what would happen if there was a windfall from, scope for abuse in those circumstances. Will the Chancellor for example, the offshore marine estate. At the moment, clarify those points? that constitutes a very small part of the revenues of the Will the Chancellor also take into account the fact Crown Estate—about 1%, as I understand it. It is that there is due to be a windfall from wind and wave perfectly possible that, in the latter part of the decade power? Will he assure the Committee that all of that or in the next decade, there will be a big increase, but, will be taken into account when the review takes place because I have accepted the spirit of the Opposition in due course? amendment, we will now have a review in 2016 and will be in a much better place to assess whether there will be Mr Osborne: I shall deal briefly—because time is such a windfall. However, I think that it is highly short—with the points raised. I should say first, however, unlikely. No one is predicting a massive windfall in the that I am grateful to the Committee and the Opposition next three or four years leading up to that review. Front-Bench team for the general support they have The reserve provides a check. The expenditure of the given to clause 1 and indeed the whole Bill. royal household is audited by the National Audit Office My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough and if the money is not being spent for purposes for (Mr Leigh) raised the key question: how do we create a which it is provided by Parliament, it will come out in mechanism that preserves the dignity of the monarchy the audit. If there is an excess—in other words, if the while ensuring that the House is accountable for the sovereign grant is more than it needs—it goes into a expenditure of public money? As I said in my opening reserve. That is a long-established principle. There is remarks, there is the question of whether the money now a check on that reserve so that it cannot rise above provided is enough or too much. I said that we do not 50% or thereabouts of the money from the sovereign want a cut-price monarch or a lavish monarchy. As a grant, which was not the case before the Bill was presented general guide, I have looked at how much the monarchy to the House. The trustees—the Prime Minister, the 563 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 564

Chancellor and the Keeper of the Privy Purse—have to than 200 major companies have now signed up to the provide an annual report to the Treasury, and through London living wage campaign. The Prime Minister the Treasury to Parliament, on that reserve. himself described it as A couple of specific points were made about “an idea whose time had come”. Marlborough house. The hon. Member for North Durham The Leader of the Opposition appeared with him on a (Mr Jones) raised this point a couple of times. Marlborough platform before the general election with members of house will remain the Government’s responsibility and London Citizens to sign up to the London living wage. is currently used by the Commonwealth Secretariat, as I Every mayoral candidate has supported it. Why? Because am sure he knows. It will be up to the royal household all of us want to see people living out of poverty. Yet in to decide what premises it needs. It would, for example, the royal household, which is only a mile and a half be able to rent premises if it needed to, but I do not away from here, the workers who are employed by think that that is relevant to the support that we are contracting companies including KGB— providing. Chris Ruane: The Russians! The hon. Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams), who is no longer in his place, asked about the mausoleum. John McDonnell: It is an unfortunate name, but there It will stay on the English Heritage buildings at risk we are. register until it is repaired in five to eight years’ time. People working in the royal household for companies My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough asked such as KGB and GreenZone are being paid £6.45 an about the governance of the Duchies of Lancaster and hour, maximum. We have discovered that many of them Cornwall. I did not think it appropriate to open up that are organised by the Public and Commercial Services issue in this legislation, which is more narrowly focused Union, which is not recognised by the companies. Many on the official support that Parliament provides to Her of those people do not even have written contracts, Majesty. which is an illegal practice. The number of jobs there I hope that I have now answered all the questions that has just been cut, and the work load has increased. have been raised, and that clause 1 can now proceed to Some people have had their hours increased, but they stand part of the Bill. are still living on poverty wages. Question put and agreed to. The amendment would simply ask the royal household Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. to publish the information on how many people working for the royal family, cleaning their rooms and corridors and serving them in different ways, are being paid below Clause 2 the London minimum wage. In this way, I want to recruit the royal household to support the London ACCOUNTS OF THE ROYAL HOUSEHOLD Citizens campaign. I want it to lead the campaign. As John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I rise the Mayor of London himself has said, no company in to speak to amendment 1, page 2, line 31, at end add— London should be paying less than the London living “(4A) The statement must be accompanied by information wage. The Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition showing the numbers of directly or indirectly employed hourly-paid and, I believe, the Chancellor and the shadow Chancellor staff of the Royal Household working in or in connection with have signed up to the campaign in the past. The amendment the Royal Palaces in London who in the financial year in question simply seeks to tackle poverty wages in London. On were paid at or below £8.30 an hour.”. that basis, I hope that we can expect the unanimous I shall be as brief as possible, given the time constraints. support of the House. The amendment is straightforward. Clause 2 proposes that the royal household’s accounts are to be reported. I 4.45 pm am asking that a statement be included in that report to The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel show the number of employees who are directly or Evans): The Question is proposed that the amendment indirectly employed by the royal household and who are be made. being paid at or below £8.30 an hour. The reason that I have arrived at the figure of £8.30 is that that is the Hon. Members: No. London living wage, as set by the Mayor of London, John McDonnell: On a point of order, Mr Evans. I do who has described it as the wage level designed to not wish to move the amendment at this stage. Having provide a made my statement, I do not wish to delay the Committee, “minimum acceptable quality of life” as there are more important amendments to consider. for people working in the capital. Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill. The London living wage was started by a group of Clauses 3 to 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill. religious organisations, churches and trade unions 10 years ago, as part of a campaign by London Citizens. They Clause 7 came together to try to tackle poverty, and recognised that the national minimum wage did not allow people REVIEW BY ROYAL TRUSTEES OF SOVEREIGN GRANT to avoid living in poverty in the capital city. They have Manuscript amendment proposed: A, page 6, line 7, campaigned over the past decade to press employers to leave out ‘7’ and insert ‘4’.—(Mr George Osborne.) pay the London living wage. They have targeted cleaners, in particular, who are living in poverty. They campaigned The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel and they won. First, they won in a number of banks at Evans): With this it will be convenient to discuss the Canary Wharf, then they came to Parliament and ensured following: that we paid our cleaners the London living wage. The Amendment 6, page 6, line 7, leave out ‘7 years’ and campaign continued right through the capital, and more insert ‘3 years’. 565 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 566

Government manuscript amendment B. Amendment 8 would help. It would limit Amendment 7, page 6, line 8, leave out ‘7 years’ and disproportionate increases to the royal household. I insert ‘5 years’. welcome the fact that the Government have tabled Amendment 8, page 6, line 8, at end add— manuscript amendments in response to our amendments which would provide an earlier review period. As the ‘(6) The Trustees shall also review the percentage for the time Bill was originally drafted, the first review of the new being specified in Step 1 of section 6(1) as soon as practicable if, arrangement would not have taken place for seven years over the financial year immediately preceding the base year, the income account net surplus of the Crown Estate increased by and there would then have been a review every seven more than the trend rate of GDP growth. years after that. We thought that the first review should take place within three years and that subsequent reviews (7) In subsection (6), “the trend rate of GDP growth” means should take place every five years. We have listened to the estimate of the trend rate of GDP growth most recently published by the Office for Budget Responsibility which is what the Government had to say about three years applicable to that year. being unfortunate in that it would coincide with the (8) Subsections (2) to (4) shall also apply to a review carried out next general election. We are happy to accept the under subsection (6).’. Government manuscript amendments that the first review should be four years and subsequent reviews every five Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I wish to speak years. We do think, however, that there should be another briefly to amendment 8. This would introduce a check mechanism to address the fact that no cap is in force. on potential future rises in income from the Crown There is a cap on the reserves, but there is no cap on the Estate. At a time when Departments and the public potential increases that the 15% figure, linked to the generally are having to take very difficult decisions to income of the Crown Estate, could generate. make their limited budgets cover the essentials, we I shall skim over much of what else I was going to say, should at least apply careful analysis to what sort of but we think it important to have some upward cap. I income the 15% figure would bring in for the royal shall be interested to hear what the Minister or the household over future years. I would appreciate any Chancellor have to say in response. information Ministers have on forecasts for the sovereign grant over the coming years, particularly regarding this Mr George Osborne: As was acknowledged by the spending review period. shadow Chancellor, we have taken on board what I We are very short of time, but I shall press on with consider to be the most significant amendments in the issue of meeting the royal household’s needs. When tabling our own manuscript amendments. There will I met the Economic Secretary yesterday—I was pleased now be a review in 2016, and there will be a review every to have the opportunity to discuss these issues with her five years after that. If the House accepts our amendments and the Bill team—we had a discussion about the fact we shall be able to prevent some windfall from offshore that the civil list has not adequately reflected the needs renewable energy from not being taken into account of the royal family in the past. At one point, it was before it comes about. We will have a chance to do that being paid too much money and amassed significant in 2016, and that is partly because we have accepted the reserves; then, it was not paid enough to meet its needs Opposition’s amendments. and had to draw down on the reserves. I appreciate that I have already dealt to some extent with the point the current formula may not be appropriate, but a raised by the shadow Chancellor, and by amendment 8, formula fixed to income on the basis of something like about whether some other mechanism is needed. A fair the Crown Estate is not necessarily any more likely to number of checks are already in place. If the grant meet royal spending needs. turns out to be more than the royal household needs—and In 2010-11, the Crown Estate profits were £230.9 million. the assessment of need will be checked by the National If the new mechanism were already in use, that would Audit Office—it will go into a reserve. If the reserve hits mean a grant in two years’ time of £34.7 million. 50% of the grant, the trustees will step in and reduce the Instead, the 2012-13 grant has been set at £31 million in amount of money coming in. They will turn down the recognition that 15% would not be appropriate or taps. That is a sensible mechanism, and it means that we proportionate. This is why we are asking the Government will not be having an annual debate in the House about to consider a more flexible mechanism in future. royal finances, entertaining though the last few hours have been. When the Chancellor spoke in the preliminary debate the other week, he said that the grant to the royal family The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) should reflect generally how well the economy is doing. specifically asked why the figure for 2012-13 was £31 million. The particular concern we have—it has been touched In a sense, that question lies at the heart of the issue. I on already—is that the Crown Estate includes investment accept that this is a complicated concept. The royal in offshore wind, particularly the new wind-power projects family have been relying on grants from Parliament—either that are coming on board. I think the chief executive of the civil list or the royal travel or royal palaces grant—and the Carbon Capture and Storage Association said that supplementing them with a reserve which has been built the carbon capture and storage industry is likely to be up, with the use of public money, in the last decade or very big in the future, probably measured in trillions of two. In 2012-13 the royal family will get the £31 million, dollars. We think that could have an impact on the but they will also expect to draw on the last of the accounts, too. reserve that was built up in the 1990s and 2000s. They will, in effect, receive more than £1 million from public We were grateful for the Chancellor’s assurances during money—money raised through taxation—because they the debate on the funding resolution that we will not will be using the last of that reserve. allow revenues from offshore wind to lead to a disproportionate rise in revenues for the royal household. Ed Balls: When I said that there would be a 3.2% real- I would be grateful for any further information about terms rise from next year until the end of the Parliament, what safeguards could be put in place. I did not mean a rise in the grant; I meant a rise in total 567 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 568 expenditure. Total expenditure in 2012-13 will be £33 million David, Mr Wayne McFadden, rh Mr Pat and will rise to £35.5 million, which, in 2010-11 prices, Davidson, Mr Ian McGovern, Alison is a rise from £31.3 million to £31.9 million. Although Dobson, rh Frank McKechin, Ann the Chancellor has made an important historic point Docherty, Thomas McKinnell, Catherine about the reserves, the 3.2% real-terms is not driven by Dowd, Jim Mearns, Ian the reserves: it is merely an overall rise in total expenditure. Dugher, Michael Mitchell, Austin Eagle, Ms Angela Moon, Mrs Madeleine I do not think that the Chancellor was entirely right on Edwards, Jonathan Morden, Jessica that point. Elliott, Julie Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Ellman, Mrs Louise Morris, Grahame M. Mr Osborne: The point I was making was that, Engel, Natascha (Easington) although there are lumpy movements in individual years—in Evans, Chris Murray, Ian 2010-11, for various reasons, some capital works were Field, rh Mr Frank Nandy, Lisa delayed and will be undertaken next year—the average Fitzpatrick, Jim Nash, Pamela of £34 million, which was £37 million two years ago, Flynn, Paul O’Donnell, Fiona amounts in effect to a cash freeze and a real-terms Fovargue, Yvonne Onwurah, Chi reduction. Francis, Dr Hywel Osborne, Sandra Gapes, Mike Pearce, Teresa Ed Balls: Over the Parliament. Gardiner, Barry Perkins, Toby Gilmore, Sheila Pound, Stephen Mr Osborne: Over the Parliament. But the point is Glass, Pat Raynsford, rh Mr Nick that it strikes the right balance between too much and Glindon, Mrs Mary Reed, Mr Jamie too little. Greatrex, Tom Reeves, Rachel I think that the checks are adequate, and for that Green, Kate Reynolds, Emma reason, although I have accepted a couple of the Greenwood, Lilian Reynolds, Jonathan Opposition’s amendments, I do not wish to accept Gwynne, Andrew Robinson, Mr Geoffrey amendment 8. Hanson, rh Mr David Roy, Lindsay Harman, rh Ms Harriet Manuscript amendment A agreed to. Ruane, Chris Havard, Mr Dai Ruddock, rh Joan Manuscript amendment made: B, page 6, line 8, leave Hepburn, Mr Stephen Sarwar, Anas Heyes, David out paragraph (b) and insert— Seabeck, Alison Hillier, Meg ‘(b) every period of 5 years beginning at the end of Sharma, Mr Virendra Howarth, rh Mr George another review period.’—(Mr George Osborne.) Shuker, Gavin Hunt, Tristram Amendment proposed: 8, page 6, line 8, at end add— Slaughter, Mr Andy Irranca-Davies, Huw ‘(6) The Trustees shall also review the percentage for the time Jamieson, Cathy Smith, rh Mr Andrew being specified in Step 1 of section 6(1) as soon as practicable if, Jarvis, Dan Smith, Owen over the financial year immediately preceding the base year, the Johnson, Diana Spellar, rh Mr John income account net surplus of the Crown Estate increased by Jones, Graham Stuart, Ms Gisela more than the trend rate of GDP growth. Jones, Mr Kevan Thomas, Mr Gareth (7) In subsection (6), “the trend rate of GDP growth” means Jones, Susan Elan Thornberry, Emily the estimate of the trend rate of GDP growth most recently Joyce, Eric Timms, rh Stephen published by the Office for Budget Responsibility which is Kendall, Liz Trickett, Jon applicable to that year. Khan, rh Sadiq Turner, Karl (8) Subsections (2) to (4) shall also apply to a review carried Lammy, rh Mr David Twigg, Stephen out under subsection (6).’.—(Ed Balls.) Lazarowicz, Mark Umunna, Mr Chuka Question put, That the amendment be made. Lloyd, Tony Walley, Joan Love, Mr Andrew The House divided: Ayes 148, Noes 241. Watts, Mr Dave MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Whitehead, Dr Alan Division No. 327] [4.55 pm MacShane, rh Mr Denis Wicks, rh Malcolm Mactaggart, Fiona Wilson, Phil AYES Marsden, Mr Gordon Winnick, Mr David Abrahams, Debbie Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben McCann, Mr Michael Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Brown, Lyn McCarthy, Kerry Alexander, Heidi Bryant, Chris McClymont, Gregg Tellers for the Ayes: Ali, Rushanara Burden, Richard McDonagh, Siobhain Mr David Hamilton and Allen, Mr Graham Campbell, Mr Alan McDonnell, John David Wright Ashworth, Jon Caton, Martin Bailey, Mr Adrian Clarke, rh Mr Tom NOES Bain, Mr William Clwyd, rh Ann Balls, rh Ed Coffey, Ann Adams, Nigel Benyon, Richard Banks, Gordon Connarty, Michael Aldous, Peter Beresford, Sir Paul Barron, rh Mr Kevin Cooper, rh Yvette Amess, Mr David Berry, Jake Beckett, rh Margaret Corbyn, Jeremy Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Bingham, Andrew Begg, Dame Anne Crausby, Mr David Bacon, Mr Richard Binley, Mr Brian Benn, rh Hilary Creasy, Stella Baker, Steve Blackman, Bob Benton, Mr Joe Cruddas, Jon Baldry, Tony Blackwood, Nicola Betts, Mr Clive Cunningham, Alex Baldwin, Harriett Blunt, Mr Crispin Blackman-Woods, Roberta Cunningham, Mr Jim Barclay, Stephen Boles, Nick Blenkinsop, Tom Cunningham, Tony Baron, Mr John Bradley, Karen Blomfield, Paul Dakin, Nic Bebb, Guto Brady, Mr Graham Blunkett, rh Mr David Darling, rh Mr Alistair Beith, rh Sir Alan Brake, rh Tom 569 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 570

Bray, Angie Heath, Mr David Perry, Claire Swales, Ian Brazier, Mr Julian Heaton-Harris, Chris Phillips, Stephen Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Brine, Mr Steve Hemming, John Pincher, Christopher Swinson, Jo Brooke, Annette Henderson, Gordon Poulter, Dr Daniel Swire, rh Mr Hugo Browne, Mr Jeremy Hendry, Charles Pugh, John Syms, Mr Robert Bruce, Fiona Hinds, Damian Raab, Mr Dominic Thurso, John Bruce, rh Malcolm Hoban, Mr Mark Randall, rh Mr John Tomlinson, Justin Burley, Mr Aidan Hollingbery, George Rees-Mogg, Jacob Truss, Elizabeth Burns, Conor Hollobone, Mr Philip Reid, Mr Alan Turner, Mr Andrew Burns, rh Mr Simon Hopkins, Kris Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Tyrie, Mr Andrew Burstow, Paul Howell, John Robertson, Mr Laurence Uppal, Paul Burt, Lorely Hughes, rh Simon Rosindell, Andrew Vaizey, Mr Edward Byles, Dan Huppert, Dr Julian Rudd, Amber Vara, Mr Shailesh Cairns, Alun James, Margot Ruffley, Mr David Vickers, Martin Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Javid, Sajid Rutley, David Walker, Mr Charles Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Jenkin, Mr Bernard Sandys, Laura Walker, Mr Robin Carmichael, Neil Johnson, Gareth Scott, Mr Lee Carswell, Mr Douglas Jones, Andrew Selous, Andrew Wallace, Mr Ben Cash, Mr William Jones, Mr David Shannon, Jim Walter, Mr Robert Chishti, Rehman Jones, Mr Marcus Shapps, rh Grant Watkinson, Angela Clark, rh Greg Kawczynski, Daniel Sharma, Alok Weatherley, Mike Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Kelly, Chris Shelbrooke, Alec Webb, Steve Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Knight, rh Mr Greg Skidmore, Chris Wharton, James Colvile, Oliver Kwarteng, Kwasi Smith, Henry Wheeler, Heather Cox, Mr Geoffrey Lamb, Norman Smith, Julian Whittaker, Craig Crabb, Stephen Latham, Pauline Smith, Sir Robert Wiggin, Bill Davey, Mr Edward Leadsom, Andrea Soames, rh Nicholas Williams, Stephen Davies, Glyn Lee, Dr Phillip Soubry, Anna Williamson, Gavin de Bois, Nick Leech, Mr John Spencer, Mr Mark Willott, Jenny Dinenage, Caroline Lefroy, Jeremy Stanley, rh Sir John Wilson, Mr Rob Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Leigh, Mr Edward Stevenson, John Wilson, Sammy Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Leslie, Charlotte Stewart, Bob Wright, Jeremy Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Lewis, Brandon Stewart, Iain Wright, Simon Doyle-Price, Jackie Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Stewart, Rory Young, rh Sir George Duddridge, James Lidington, rh Mr David Streeter, Mr Gary Zahawi, Nadhim Duncan, rh Mr Alan Lilley, rh Mr Peter Stride, Mel Ellis, Michael Lopresti, Jack Stuart, Mr Graham Tellers for the Noes: Ellison, Jane Lord, Jonathan Stunell, Andrew Mr Robert Goodwill and Eustice, George Loughton, Tim Sturdy, Julian Miss Chloe Smith Evans, Jonathan Luff, Peter Fabricant, Michael Lumley, Karen Question accordingly negatived. Fallon, Michael Maude, rh Mr Francis Field, Mr Mark Maynard, Paul Foster, rh Mr Don McCartney, Karl 5.8 pm Francois, rh Mr Mark McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Proceedings interrupted (Order, this day). Freeman, George Menzies, Mark Freer, Mike Metcalfe, Stephen The Chair put forthwith the Questions necessary for Fullbrook, Lorraine Miller, Maria the disposal of the business to be concluded at that time Fuller, Richard Mills, Nigel (Order, this day). Gale, Mr Roger Milton, Anne Clause 7, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Garnier, Mr Edward Mordaunt, Penny George, Andrew Morgan, Nicky Clauses 8 to 17 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Morris, Anne Marie Schedules 1 and 2 agreed to. Glen, John Morris, James The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair. Goldsmith, Zac Mosley, Stephen Grant, Mrs Helen Murray, Sheryll Bill, as amended, reported. Gray, Mr James Murrison, Dr Andrew Bill, as amended in the Committee, considered. Grayling, rh Chris Neill, Robert Third Reading Green, Damian Newmark, Mr Brooks Greening, Justine Newton, Sarah Griffiths, Andrew Nokes, Caroline 5.10 pm Gummer, Ben Nuttall, Mr David Mr George Osborne: I beg to move, That the Bill be Gyimah, Mr Sam Offord, Mr Matthew now read the Third time. Halfon, Robert Ollerenshaw, Eric Hammond, rh Mr Philip Osborne, rh Mr George I shall be brief. I want to thank the House for the two Hancock, Matthew Ottaway, Richard days of debate and for the scrutiny and entertainment Hands, Greg Paice, rh Mr James that has been provided. We have discussed chocolate Harper, Mr Mark Parish, Neil biscuits, Tupperware, secret treaties and what the hon. Harris, Rebecca Patel, Priti Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) said in 1971, the Hart, Simon Paterson, rh Mr Owen year in which I was born. I particularly want to thank Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Penning, Mike various participants, such as the hon. Member for Newport Heald, Oliver Percy, Andrew West (Paul Flynn), the hon. Member for Glasgow South 571 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 572

West (Mr Davidson), who is not in his place, and my mechanism if revenues from the Crown Estate rise hon. Friends the Members for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) rapidly in coming years, but there are measures, checks and for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg). They and balances in the legislation to make sure that we can all showed a passionate interest in this subject and knew properly do our job as parliamentarians in ensuring what they were talking about. They argued from different that money is well spent but also that the monarchy is points of view but helped to enlighten the debate. properly financed. Of course, it is not just Ministers and the Chancellor Let me conclude by saying it is of great regret that who do the work on such legislation. An official team at the—oh, he is still here. For a second, I feared that the the Treasury have been working on it for more than a hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) year and I want to thank them for their hard work. I had left and I wanted to thank him for his contributions thank the royal household for its engagement as well as to the debates. It is an open question whether the Alan Reid, the Keeper of the Privy Purse, with whom I financial settlement for the Crown Estate that the Chancellor have been liaising throughout. We have got the balance generously set out will make affordable the finest horses right between providing the funds to allow the monarch and the gold-gilt carriages that the hon. Gentleman and her family to do their official duties with dignity called for in the debate a fortnight ago as befitting Her and the kind of support we would expect for our Head Majesty. However, I assure him that it will certainly be of State while at the same time providing checks and enough to pay for Bath Oliver biscuits with chocolate balances on how that money is spent and allowing on the outside; there is no doubt about that. His Parliament to scrutinise those resources for the first contributions have been welcome. As I said, this has time. I suspect that such scrutiny would have been been an important debate about history as well as the unthinkable decades ago. future and it is good to have present an hon. Member Many people have referred to the fact that in 1760 the who has a great grasp of that history. Indeed, some of arrangement was put in place whereby the revenues us sometimes think he might have been there in 1760—more from the Crown Estate were handed over for the lifetime in style than in substance. We thank him and all hon. of the monarch in return for a parliamentary grant. I Members who have contributed to the debate. The job do not know whether the arrangements in the Bill will of scrutinising these matters now starts for Parliament last for 250 years—that is probably a bit ambitious—but and I thank the Chancellor for helping us to ensure that I hope they last for many years and decades to come. that will be done properly in the years to come. That might mean that the House will miss the entertaining debates we have had over two days, but it will also 5.16 pm ensure that our monarchy is properly funded, that it is above the annual political fray and that it can get on Tristram Hunt: In Committee, the hon. Member for with doing what it does so well: representing our country Gainsborough (Mr Leigh) said that the monarchy was a and being our Head of State. fragile institution, but I beg to differ. The monarchy has shown itself to be a very powerful and strong institution, 5.12 pm lasting over the centuries. If the British state was beginning again, we probably would not start by creating a monarchy: Ed Balls: I echo the Chancellor’s thanks to Members it is irrational, inequitable, inherently sexist, myopic on both sides of the House for the way in which they and averse to many of the principles of progressive have participated in the debate. In particular, I thank politics and the social democratic future that we on the my hon. Friends for the way in which they have helped left hold dear. However, we are where we are and there us play the Opposition’s proper role in scrutinising such is no enthusiasm for dismantling the monarchy. legislation. There have been many historical references and when we look back to the last serious debate in Mr Davidson: Yes, there is. Parliament, in 1971, we can see that the tone of those debates was very different from that of our debates today and a fortnight ago. That shows that there have Tristram Hunt: Among the public as a whole. been many changes since the early 1970s, including We in opposition should be brave and confident more pressure on and exposure for the monarchy, as enough to think about some of the monarchy’s strengths, well as an unprecedented degree of international exposure. which is partly what the Bill is about ensuring. First, the The consensus on the role of the monarchy in our monarchy gives a broader notion of citizenship. We on constitution and in our country is stronger now than it the left often get in a lather about being subjects rather was during the previous debate, which has been shown than citizens and whether that holds back our politics, by the speeches from both sides of the House as we have but the virtue of the monarchy is that it creates a notion scrutinised the Bill. I thank the Chancellor of the of citizenship that is not necessarily linked to ethnicity. Exchequer for being willing to brief us and to be It is not a blood-and-soil notion of citizenship. The involved in serious discussions that have led to changes political scientist John Gray put it rather well when he in the legislation. The manuscript amendments that he wrote: was willing to table following our suggested amendments “The monarchical constitution we have today—a mix of antique were welcome. survivals and postmodern soap opera—may be absurd, but it The change will lead to an unprecedented increase in enables a diverse society to rub along without too much friction.” the scrutiny of the royal household by the National It also points to a wonderful thing about Britain—that Audit Office, the Public Accounts Committee and we have no purpose in the world, unlike the great Parliament. As the Chancellor has said, that is a good republics of France, America or Italy, where there is an thing in building further trust and support for the endpoint, or telos, to do with happiness or improving monarchy in our country. Obviously, I regret the fact equality. Britain has no ultimate endpoint and monarchy that we did not manage to get agreement on our trigger is part of that. 573 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 574

Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): dangers of a written constitution, although my hon. My hon. Friend has demonstrated that he has a far Friend the Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) superior knowledge of history than perhaps any other would vehemently disagree and do so in quite some Member of the House who was not actually there detail if pressed. during large sections of it. Does he agree that the Part of our strength as an old country is connected to histories of the United States and France are histories the royal family and monarchy, which has taken different of violent revolution, whereas we have had a period of forms over the years. We have in this country a natural stable evolution, apart from a dark period in the 1650s resource in history.As other nations have oil and diamonds, and so on, largely because we have had a constitutional we have the past, and we need to use it as a source of monarchy? leverage in the world. In addition to soft power, the royal family also brings Tristram Hunt: I take my hon. Friend’s point, but we hard currency.I am privileged to represent Stoke-on-Trent, should not over-emphasise our Whiggish stability over where the Chancellor will soon visit many successful the years. We often used to think of the 18th century as businesses in the area. Many ceramics companies in my the age of equipoise and stability. In fact, underneath constituency have enjoyed record profits on the back of that monarchy, all sorts of revolutionary fervour was the royal wedding. The profits of Bridgewater, Portmeirion going on. The campaign of my hon. Friend the Member and Hudson and Middleton show that the ceramics for Newport West (Paul Flynn) to have the Chartists industry is booming on the back of the royal wedding. properly recognised in the House hints at a slightly different history. It is a source of great sadness to many According to VisitBritain spokesman, Paul Eastham, people that, although the House was rebuilt in the “Our culture and heritage reputation is very strong around the 1830s and ’40s, it took until mid-1890s for the statue of world. At the heart of that lies monarchy.” Cromwell to appear outside. Many historians and I would disagree that the nature of Britain is innately bound up with monarchy, but we For all its narrow, Eurocentric and white family structure, should not kid ourselves about the fact that, as the the royal family also has a curious internationalist success of the visit of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge sensibility, for to understand the British royal family in to Canada and California has shown, it brings remarkable the 19th and 20th centuries is to understand empire and attention to Britain. I was involved in constituency the nature of Britain in the world. As we have heard business in Australia at the time of the royal visit to today in respect of reforming the Act of Settlement, the Canada and California, but the media attention focused monarch was also monarch of imperial nations across on that young couple—and another great global icon, the world, then the British Commonwealth and then Ms Kate Moss—from right around the world was the Commonwealth. That points to the unique nature remarkable. of Britain: its openness and sense of citizenship, which is, again, above and beyond blood and soil. Part of the There is a job to be done, and many members of the strength of monarchy is that it speaks to the multicultural, royal family do it very well. We come to the tricky multi-faith age in which we live. There is a curious question of financing it. I share my Front Benchers’ modernity about the nature of monarchy, which, again, concerns about making sure that we have a proper keeps its strength going. vehicle to ensure that excessive profits and marked changes in the amount of money flowing to the royal The real virtue of the royal family today is the soft family are properly looked after. I, too, still have questions power embodied within it. We have heard, quite rightly, about the shared ownership of assets when it comes to detailed discussions about £35 million or £37 million the royal family. I also share concerns about security costs this afternoon, but the royal family as a brand costs. We in Stoke-on-Trent were greatly privileged to vehicle for Britishness is worth huge sums more than have a visit by the Earl of Wessex recently, but I have to £35 million or £37 million. The sums regained from the say that I thought that the security costs and the entourage world’s media focus on London during the royal wedding involved were not wholly necessary. recently were far in excess of its cost. Although our beloved former Prime Minister, Tony Blair, used to On timetabling, the move from seven to five years is describe Britain as a young country, it is, in fact, a very quite right. When we return to government in the old country. imminent future and return, hopefully, to four-year Parliaments, that period can go down to four years Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): I am from five years, to reflect the length of a Parliament. listening carefully to the hon. Gentleman, but does he The Chancellor has come up with the least worst agree that that is the reason why we do not need a new, option for financing the royal family. As the hon. Member written constitution? We have gradually evolved as a for Gainsborough suggested, the royal palaces are in country.Other countries look at us and at Parliament—the real danger of decay. Many of them have not had the mother of all Parliaments—because we have been through infrastructure investment that they demand, and demands a great, long history. We have managed to achieve on their fabric will grow. As part of the quid pro quo of something. We stand for things in the world. We stand the settlement, we need from the royal family further for democracy, freedom of speech, common law and the opening-up of some of the royal palaces, and we need rule of law, whereby this country has made the sort of to think more creatively about the art collection held by decisions that it has over the past few days. Her Majesty. We need to continue bearing down on costs, and we need the kind of public accountability Tristram Hunt: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his and audit that the Bill brings to bear. intervention, but he knows far better than I do that, of The Chancellor and shadow Chancellor spoke of the course, in the quote about the mother of Parliaments, language of utility and satisfaction, in terms of the John Bright was referring to the whole country, rather relationship between Parliament and monarchy, and than to Parliament. The hon. Gentleman points to the this settlement sets us on that road. 575 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 576

5.27 pm goes back to general public usage. For example, most of the communications allowance is spent on writing paper, Michael Ellis: I am delighted to follow the hon. stationary and clerical costs for responding to items of Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), correspondence received by the royal household. With who is clearly a royalist, and who is a founding member regard to entertainment costs, tens of thousands of of the all-party parliamentary group on the Queen’s British subjects receive hospitality at garden parties, for diamond jubilee, and I congratulate him on that. example, so costs are incurred in that way. It is easy to try to put a price on monarchy, as I think The royal palaces account for a huge part of royal the hon. Gentleman was saying. Of course, to a certain expenditure. If we did not have a royal family, it is extent, one has to do that especially in such a debate as reasonably safe to assume that we would retain the this, but the monarchy, personified so ably by our palaces—one would hope that they would not be knocked sovereign, is not bounded by monetary value; it is about down to build car parks—and consequently there would honour, nobility of conduct, its historical nature, and be museums that would need to be maintained, although an institution of which we can all be proud. If we look no doubt few people would visit them. The roofs would in some detail at the mischief that the Bill is trying to still need to be fixed and leaks repaired, so the Exchequer redress, the finances of the royal household, designed to would not save. When one takes the care to look at the support Her Majesty, are currently overly complex. expenditure, one will see that it is extremely modest There are no fewer than four grants, which are themselves and, as has been alluded to, extremely impressive savings hidebound and bureaucratic. They have a tendency to have been made over the past couple of years. be inflexible in that if there is a depletion of one grant, there cannot be a transfer from the other grants to fill The current system is inflexible, overly bureaucratic the gap. Consequently, the system clearly does not and has not been as transparent as it could have been. work. That, in and of itself, irrespective of one’s ideological One cannot rationalise romance, and I take the point views about monarchy as an institution, needs to be made by my hon. Friend the Member for North East redressed. Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) and others that the institution of the monarchy is about more than just money, but However, it goes deeper than that, because the sums one must bear in mind that although the monarchy is an of money we are talking about—approximately emotionally unifying institution and, in my view, crucial £35 million—are, in governmental terms, de minimis. to the success of this state, it is also susceptible to They are miniscule. I dare say that this area of expenditure proper analysis of its finances, which is what the Bill is more scrutinised, deeply analysed and debated in will do. Consequently, I give it my full support. various forums, including this House, than other areas of the public finances, where hundred of millions, or even billions, of pounds are spent, so there is no shortage 5.35 pm of scrutiny whatsoever. It is clear that for the first time since the early 1970s Parliament is looking at a proper Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) modernisation of the finances of the royal household (PC): I have a series of concerns with the Bill. First, it and the monarchy. creates an artificial link between the profits from an estate given up by the royal family in 1760 and an amount required to carry their official duties in the Thomas Docherty: The hon. Gentleman refers to the present day. My major concern is with the escalator level of scrutiny that the household finances receive, but process that is put in place, whereby the amount that is this debate will last less than three hours. Does he not received each year will be the same as or greater than think that that is a flaw? that of the previous financial year, either through the floor introduced in the Bill or because 15% of the Michael Ellis: I think one can tell from the number of Crown Estate’s profits is greater than the floor. I am Members in the Chamber that the matter has been disappointed that the Opposition amendment on that debated perfectly clearly. was defeated in Committee. The Crown Estate is the property of the sovereign There are curious oddities in the Bill. Why is there a and is in the right of the Crown. In the generations since need to round up the Crown Estate’s profit to the George III’s accession in 1760, successive Governments nearest £100,000? Why round it upwards and not have gone to the sovereign of the day and asked, “May downwards? Why round it up at all? The profit of the we have the proceeds from the Crown Estate?” All Crown Estate is a red herring. There is no link between sovereigns since, including George IV, William VI and the successful organisation of the estate’s affairs and the so on, have signed away those rights. However, from a amount received by the royal family. This is not a legal perspective, the fact that the application has been business arrangement. I recognise that there are arguments made and the request granted on each occasion perhaps that the royal family should receive a lump sum and be indicates how the law would look at the matter. It seems able to transfer funds for better use. I also recognise the clear to me that the revenue is surrendered to the argument that the money provided is given for a specific Exchequer and that the legal implication of that act of purpose. However, if it is not being used for that purpose, surrender is that the revenue belongs to the Crown. on what grounds is that amount of funding being given? The sovereign grant is normally set as equal to 15% of As many Members have said, there should be a the profit from the Crown Estate, as has already been regular needs-based analysis of the royal family’s alluded to. It could be argued that that is sufficient, but expenditure, with grants provided accordingly. Having it is not over-generous, and no one could reasonably said that, I like the idea of a reserve fund for money that argue that it is disproportionate to the affairs of the is not used. This sounds like the end-of-year flexibility Crown. If one takes the care to look at where Crown that the Welsh Government set up under Plaid Cymru a expenditure actually goes, one will see that much of it few years ago, only for the Treasury to steal back 577 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 578

[Jonathan Edwards] things for a range of people, such as the Tolpuddle martyrs, the Chartists and the suffragettes, who have £400 million earlier in the year. I look forward to the contributed hugely to the strength of our democracy day when the Treasury follows the same pursuit in and transformed this country into the proud modern taking back money allocated to the royal family. democracy that it is now. The Crown Estate, which is a key part of the Bill, is Whenever royalty is discussed, the House becomes owned by the state and administrated by commissioners. infantilised. It is worth mentioning again that because It owns large areas of land in Wales and claims the of our own decisions, which go back seven centuries, we seabed and foreshore as part of its urban, rural and are not allowed to criticise not only the monarch, but maritime portfolios. Yet last week’s annual report fails any member of her family. When an attempt was made to provide a nation-by-nation or regional breakdown of to have a debate on the conduct of Prince Andrew on the investments and profits of the Crown Estate. Figures two occasions, I and other Members were gagged in for Scotland are provided on the website, but apparently saying anything about him that was not emetic, sycophantic no comparable figures for Wales are published. In the drivel. We must understand that in this debate and interests of transparency, we would like to see those many others, we are denied the opportunity as a free figures published. In the interests of Wales, we would Parliament to discuss the personalities and behaviour of like to see responsibility for the Crown Estate in Wales the entire royal family—not that I want to be critical transferred to the Welsh Government. This is our land tonight. and our seabed, and it should be used for investments I tried to make a point in the earlier debate about the that benefit the people of Wales. special need for the role of the Head of State. The point of the story that I told about Mrs Thatcher is that we Mel Stride: I feel that I must return to the status of need someone who is above politics to act when a Prime the Crown Estate. Does not the hon. Gentleman accept Minister gets out of control. There was a possibility in that it is effectively owned by the institution of the 1990 that Margaret Thatcher could have caused a general monarchy and not by the state at all? election and that Parliament, the Cabinet and the Conservative party would not have been able to stop Jonathan Edwards: I do not agree. My belief is that her. However, the Queen could have stopped her and the Crown Estate in Wales should now be devolved to almost certainly would have done so given the Queen’s the Welsh Government. personality and status. It is questionable whether other Profits are coming from the use and exploitation of Prime Ministers would have had that strength of character these assets. Those profits, be they for renewable energy and whether possible other monarchs would have had on land or sea, should be given to the people of Wales. that strength of character. I am thinking of the Queen’s Having control of the Crown Estate land and sea in uncle and the Queen’s successor, who suffers from an Wales would give us the opportunity to be a world incontinence of interference in matters that are way leader in renewable energy and to develop our economy outside what a monarch should be involved in. accordingly. In the meantime, the Bill should not include reference to the Crown Estate and should instead provide Thomas Docherty: On a point of order, Mr Deputy a series of grants according to the needs of the royal Speaker. Could you remind me whether it is appropriate family to undertake their duties. If we are to have one for an hon. Member to make remarks that appear to be single sovereign grant that is not needs-based, then why disparaging about a member of the royal household? not simply increase it by the consumer prices index, as that seems to be the Government’s preferred measure of Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I have already inflation? had to remind Mr Flynn that when he is referring to the royal family, he should do so with dignity, as their status 5.38 pm in this country behoves. I hope that he will refrain from disparaging remarks in the future. Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Paul Flynn: That is a splendid illustration of the fact Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards). I agree with every single that we are infantilised and incapable of the freedom of word of his speech. expression that I would have if I was writing a blog, These are delightful occasions. I am sorry that the speaking on the radio or writing in a newspaper. This hon. Member for the middle ages and North East House and our role is diminished because of that. As an Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) has left us, because he elected representative who has long been regarded by gave us another cameo performance today, although he my constituents as a republican, I am denied the opportunity did not give the same peroration. He would have been of speaking the truth as I see it. very much at home in the court of King Canute. A couple of days ago, the hon. Member for Tristram Hunt: On my hon. Friend’s substantive point, Northampton North (Michael Ellis) rather optimistically does he not think that the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill sent me a letter—addressed to me by my first name, will withdraw the capacity for such royal interference in although I do not really know him in any way—requesting elections? a contribution for the new stained glass window. I am afraid that I had to send him a rather disappointing Paul Flynn: I think that many advances have been reply. He did persuade me to put down an early-day very beneficial. One of the most important was the motion drawing attention to the fact that we are already decision we took in 2003 to vote on whether we go to fairly well supplied with statues, pictures and paintings war. Some 230 Members voted against. Unlike my hon. of royalty in this place, but very badly off in those Friend, I do not agree with many of the attributes that 579 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 580 give us our national status in the world of being “wider essentially altering arrangements that were first made at still and wider”. Many people praise us for that because the time of the accession of George III in 1760. The it means that we can punch above our weight. It also most famous Member of Parliament for the old city of means that our soldiers have to die beyond our Bristol seat was Edmund Burke, and he coined the term responsibilities. We have taken on an unreasonable share “the fourth estate”—our dear friends, and indeed some of the dying in Afghanistan and Iraq because of the enemies, in the press. Of course, they have had the wind elevated view we have of our status, which is a damaging of change blowing through them over the past hours view. and weeks. The second and third estates, of course, are ourselves in the Lords and Commons, and we have also Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. We are experienced change, with more change to come. The going far wide of what we are here to speak on, which is first estate is the Crown itself, which is now receiving the Third Reading of the Bill. Other Members wish to change. It is right that it should do so. speak, so keep to the Bill, Mr Flynn. In particular, it is right that the Crown should be Paul Flynn: The hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr more open and transparent about its finances. I was Leigh) made a point about the Bill and about whether delighted that the Chancellor confirmed that Buckingham those at Buckingham palace listen to our debates. I palace itself would be open on more days of the year so assure him that they do. The last time I spoke on these that members of the public can see inside, whether they issues, I had a call from Buckingham palace within an are going to garden parties or are paying visitors, who hour telling me that the information I had given about currently go in August. If they see the finest horses and the heir to the throne’s income increasing by 50% in a the finest coaches, they can also see probably the finest year and his spending of taxpayers’ money increasing art collection on the planet. by 18% was absolutely accurate but could be misleading. I agree with the sentiment expressed by several of my So we are under that surveillance, I am happy to say. hon. Friends that we do not want to see a bicycling I believe it is a complete myth to think that the Crown monarchy, but we do need a monarchy that is accessible Estate is the property of the royal family, and it is a and transparent to the public. That would also make it disingenuous view. In the Bill there is an attempt to more enduring. refresh and replace that idea. I saw an interesting quote in the Financial Times from a Government source, who 5.48 pm said: “There is a major constitutional issue with appearing to say Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): First, I want to that” apologise for not being here in the earlier part of the day. I was at the hospital all day having some nuclear the Queen medicine, they called it. It is a new-fangled thing, and I “owns all this stuff when she doesn’t”. would warn anybody, if you have got a chance to avoid It is quite clear that the Crown Estate is the property of it, avoid it. They stick a drug in you, and you feel like the country, and that the revenue should go to health, you are dying. What they are trying to do is put your social security and the other issues before us. heart under so much pressure that they can see I cannot understand why Members, particularly our whether you can stand the anaesthetic for a hip replacement own Front Benchers, having seen that the Bill was in the near future. That is where I have been, and I coming up—we have one every 250 years—are maximising missed all these wonderful contributions on the Queen’s the understandable current popularity of the royal family new allowance—her winter heating allowance, or to ensure that it gets through and that there is a settlement whateveritis. that could be very expensive in future. If the Bill had I remember well, way back in 1971, being joined by a been presented to the House at the time of Diana’s lot of people in the House who were on the left wing at death, or another time when the royal family were very the time in voting against the Queen’s money. Quite a unpopular, the House would have given a very different number of them are now in the House of Lords— view. Clearly this is a honeymoon time in which to [Laughter.] [HON.MEMBERS: “Name them!] I can’t name introduce it. all of them because I ain’t got time. They are all there. I I believe that, as has been suggested, a simple mechanism remember that occasion very well because they were should have been adopted. As is the case for other dining and wining on the fact that they had just voted taxpayers, such as recipients of income support and against the Queen’s money, or the royal money. housing benefit, there could be a mechanism linked to I am here today—I just managed to get back in time inflation. I suggest again that it should be the same for Third Reading. My view about the monarchy has mechanism that decides on pensioners’ increases, which been pretty much the same all my life. I remember in the have sadly been reduced because of the change from the pit village of Clay Cross, when I was a bit of kid during retail prices index to the consumer prices index. If that the second world war—or maybe just a bit before—kids measure were introduced and the funding were divorced on the street saying that the royal family had blue from the Crown Estate, it would work and it would blood, but I just could not buy that. My inquiring mind seem fair. Would it not be marvellous if we demanded prevented me from being like the rest of the lads on the from the royal family the same freedom of information street. that is demanded of all the rest of us? There is no doubt about it: the royal family were very popular in those days, notwithstanding King George VI 5.47 pm not being able to speak properly on the radio. I heard all Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): I will be brief that, but notwithstanding, they were popular then, but because I think a couple of other Members want to there have been phases since when their popularity has speak. As the Chancellor said earlier, today we are waned, especially when Murdoch was the toast of the 581 Sovereign Grant Bill14 JULY 2011 Sovereign Grant Bill 582

[Mr Dennis Skinner] Mr Skinner: I am trying to explain that there are people out there who do not give a hoot about the royal town—which he now ain’t. We have been slagging off family. The truth is that my old mate Joe, who has now Murdoch all week and telling him to sling his hook passed on, wanted the pass, and that is how he felt back to America and all the rest of it, but his papers about it. He wanted to be in the royal enclosure, unlike had an influence. I am sure that there were times when me. Obviously I did not go to the garden party—I have Murdoch newspapers made a reasonable contribution never been to one, although they tell me that Willie to the talk about the dysfunctional royal family and all Hamilton did. I don’t know about that. I’ll tell you one the rest of it, but I also believe that Charles himself thing though. Despite all the security, they are still made a contribution, because quite frankly, he is not using the same car passes now. So we have had the IRA, liked. Those hon. Members who are royalists know in Islamic fundamentalism, 9/11, bombs on the underground their hearts that they do not really want to see him be and buses, and they are still using the same passes on the king. When I take people from the women’s institute the Mall—so they tell me. round the House of Commons and the House of Lords Anyway, to get back to the Bill—[HON.MEMBERS: and show them the throne, they say, “Who sits in that “Yeah!”] I know they didn’t really like those stories other seat? I say, “Well, perhaps it’s Charles, but eventually, anyway and we have only got a couple of minutes left. he’s gonna sit in the big seat.” They say, “Who will be in What I wanted to say is that I have always taken the the other one?” and I say, “Camilla,” and they say, “No! view that the royal family cannot be regal and common We don’t want her!” at the same time. I thought when television came in they wanted to appear regal on the one hand but also to be Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I am like “Coronation Street” people on the other. So they speaking now from this big seat. It would be very good, got on the telly and they were playing those games and firstly, if the hon. Gentleman could at least refer to the all the rest of it. I think that the Queen was badly royal family in a dignified manner, as has happened advised. She should have kept control of them. If I had almost throughout the debate, and secondly, if we could been on the advisers list, I would have told her that. But get back to Third Reading. I know that for unavoidable I wasn’t. I know that Charles wanted to meet me one reasons, the hon. Gentleman was unable to be here day, and that Nicholas—well, whatever seat he stands earlier, but I am sure he knows what the Bill says. Could for, he sits over there—who was a friend of Charles, he get back to it? said to me, “Charles wants to speak to you”. I said, Mr Skinner: I know that the Bill is all about £35 million “Why?” He said, “He thinks you’re very interesting.” I in the time of a recession. The truth is that people out said, “Why, has he stopped talking to plants?” there, notwithstanding what anybody else tells them [Interruption.] It’s a friendly remark! and irrespective of this debate, will be saying, “Here we Anyway, I believe that at that time support waned are. We’ve got a pay freeze, inflation’s going through the quite remarkably. I think it is a bit higher now, but I still roof and energy prices are going up. Because of welfare believe it is not the 90-odd per cent. that some people reform, they’re cutting disability allowance. Three thousand imagine it. It is more like 60:40. I do not accept either blind and disabled people have marched through London that the Queen does not have powers. I was here in 1974, for their money, and yet, on one given day, they are able during the strike and the “miners’ election”, when Heath to find the money for the royal family.” said, “You either vote for me or you vote for the So, to go back chronologically to my story about the miners.” The truth is that Labour won a marginal royal family, I was a bit of a kid, but then I got elected victory. We had a tiny number of seats more than the to Clay Cross council. I do not know what happened, Tories. but when I became chairman of the council, I got a big package, which turned out to be an invite to the royal Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. This is going to come as a garden party. I looked at it, and found they had included great disappointment to you, Mr Skinner, but you cannot a little diagonal cross to put in the car—of course, I talk this Bill out because at 6 o’clock, I am going to put hadn’t a car, a bank account or a telephone. I said to a the question. If you could now refer specifically to the mate of mine, “You’d never believe the bumf that Bill, we would be grateful. they’ve sent—all these different things for the royal garden party.” He said, “What did you do with it?” and Mr Skinner: I know I have talked out several Bills in I said, “I chucked it in t’dustbin.” I said, “There were the past, but I did it by moving a debate on the writ for even a thing to put in your car.” He says, “What colour the Brecon and Radnor by-election and the Richmond were it?”—[Interruption.] No! He was asking what by-election and all the rest of it. But now you have colour the pass was, not the car. He had seen one before, stopped me doing it, Mr Deputy Speaker. What I have because he had been to the races to Cheltenham and to say is that here we are at a time of welfare reform, Ascot and seen it. He says, “Get that pass!” I said, inflation and all the rest of it, and suddenly, in one day, “Well, it’s in the dustbin,” and he says, “We’ve not the House of Commons changes its whole attitude and emptied Wheatcroft close yet.” So I got the pass out. I says, “We’ve got enough money. The royal family need saw him after he had retired, and I said, “Ay up, Joe, did more to live on.” And what does it do? It votes for it. you ever use that pass?” “Use it?” he says, “It’s here in Well, if I can find another teller, I’ll be voting against. t’glove compartment. I’ve used it every year. I go straight Thank you very much. into Royal Ascot, not just the royal enclosure.” 5.59 pm Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. I let the hon. Gentleman finish the story because I wanted to hear the end, but it Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): still has nothing to do with the Bill. May we please get I am not sure whether I have more trepidation when I back to the Bill? follow the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob 583 14 JULY 2011 Business without Debate 584

Rees-Mogg) or when I follow my hon. Friend the Member DELEGATED LEGISLATION for Bolsover (Mr Skinner). It is slightly ironic that we Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing are having this debate in one of the royal palaces, and Order No. 118(6)), perhaps we should recognise the contribution that the royal household makes to the upkeep of some of the LAND REGISTRATION rather expensive parts of this building. It is probably worth reflecting on some of the more turbulent debates That the draft Land Registration (Network Access) (Amendment) Rules 2011, which were laid before this House on 7 June, be that the House has had with the royal family about their approved.—( James Duddridge.) financing over the centuries— Question agreed to. 6pm Debate interrupted (Order, this day). EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing proposed from the Chair (Order, this day), That the Bill Order No. 119(11)), be now read the Third time.

Question agreed to. DRAFT EU BUDGET Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. That this House takes note of European Union Documents No. 11779/11 and No. 11775/11 relating to the preparation of the Business without Debate EU Budget, and an unnumbered explanatory memorandum dated 27 May 2011 from HM Treasury on the Statement of Estimates of the Commission for 2012 (preparation of the 2012 Draft Budget); recalls the agreement at the October 2010 European Council that DRAFT FINANCIAL SERVICES BILL (JOINT it is essential that the European Union budget and the forthcoming COMMITTEE) Multi-annual Financial Framework reflect the consolidation efforts Motion made, being made by Member States to bring deficit and debt onto a That this House concurs with the Lords Message of 21 June, more sustainable path; notes that in spite of this agreement the that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons Commission’s proposal has come at a time of particular austerity be appointed to consider the draft Financial Services Bill presented in domestic budgets across the EU; agrees that the 4.9 per cent to both Houses on 16 June (Cm 8083). increase in payment appropriations proposed for 2012 by the Commission is therefore unacceptable; notes that UK contributions That a Select Committee of six Members be appointed to join to the EU budget have also risen in recent years due to the 2005 with the Committee appointed by the Lords to consider the draft decision to give away parts of the UK rebate; supports the Financial Services Bill presented to both Houses on 16 June Government’s objective to deliver the terms of the language (Cm 8083). secured by the Prime Minister’s December letter that the growth That the Committee should report on the draft Bill by 1 December of European public spending must be consistent with the considerable 2011. efforts made by the Member States to bring their public spending That the Committee shall have power— under control and that action to curb budget growth in 2011 should be progressively stepped up in 2012; and so supports the (i) to send for persons, papers and records; Government in seeking significant savings to the Commission’s (ii) to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House; proposals across all headings and its strenuous efforts to limit the (iii) to report from time to time; growth of payments to below inflation.—( James Duddridge.) (iv) to appoint specialist advisers; and Question agreed to. (v) to adjourn from place to place within the United Kingdom. That Mr Nicholas Brown, Mr David Laws, Mr Peter Lilley, David Mowat, Mr George Mudie and Mr David Ruffley be PRIVACY AND INJUNCTIONS (JOINT members of the Committee.—( James Duddridge.) COMMITTEE) Resolved, Hon. Members: Object. That this House concurs with the Lords Message of 27 June, that it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider privacy and injunctions, including: SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE (19 JULY) (NO. 2) (1) how the statutory and common law on privacy and the use Ordered, of anonymity injunctions and super-injunctions has operated in That, on Tuesday 19 July, the House shall meet at 11.30 am practice; and references to specific times in the Standing Orders of this (2) how best to strike the balance between privacy and freedom House shall apply as if that day were a Wednesday.— of expression, in particular how best to determine whether there ( James Duddridge.) is a public interest in material concerning people’s private and family life; (3) issues relating to the enforcement of anonymity injunctions BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (18 JULY) and superinjunctions, including the internet, cross-border jurisdiction Ordered, within the United Kingdom, parliamentary privilege and the rule of law; and That, at the sitting on Monday 18 July, the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of the proceedings on the (4) issues relating to media regulation in this context, including Motions in the name of the Prime Minister relating to the the role of the Press Complaints Commission and the Office of appointment and pay of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Communications (OFCOM); Administration and Health Service Commissioner for England That the Committee should report by 29 February 2012; not later than one hour after their commencement; such Questions That a Select Committee of thirteen Members be appointed to shall include the Questions on any Amendments selected by the join with the Committee appointed by the Lords; Speaker which may then be moved; proceedings may continue after the moment of interruption; and Standing Order No. 41A That the Committee shall have power— (Deferred divisions) shall not apply.—( James Duddridge.) (i) to send for persons, papers and records; 585 Business without Debate 14 JULY 2011 586

(ii) to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House; Early Intervention (iii) to report from time to time; Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House (iv) to appoint specialist advisers; and do now adjourn.—(Mr Vara.) (v) to adjourn from place to place within the United Kingdom; That Mr Ben Bradshaw, Mr Robert Buckland, Philip Davies, 6.3 pm George Eustice, Paul Farrelly, Martin Horwood, Eric Joyce, Mr Elfyn Llwyd, Penny Mordaunt, Yasmin Qureshi, Ms Gisela Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab): Early Stuart, Mr John Whittingdale and Nadhim Zahawi be members intervention not only requires no new net public expenditure, of the Committee.—(James Duddridge.) it is also the biggest deficit reduction programme that we have. If we implement it properly, it will produce PETITION results beyond the Chancellor’s wildest dreams. We need to change our default public expenditure culture, High Speed Rail which is one of late intervention, to one of early intervention. Late intervention is expensive and not 6.2 pm very effective. Early intervention, by contrast, is inexpensive and highly effective. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): I I shall give the House an example. Delivering the wish to present a petition. intensive health visiting service of the family nurse The Petition of residents of South Northamptonshire and partnership to 115 teen mums and their babies in my others, constituency costs about the same as putting three Declares that the Petitioners are strongly opposed to the 16-year-olds in a secure unit for a year—an average of proposed High Speed Railway; declares that the Petitioners believe two of whom, incidentally, will reoffend. Family nurse it to be a massive waste of money; declares that it will destroy partnership services delivered in the first years of life miles of beautiful countryside, thousands of homes and villages; and further declares that there is no business case or environmental can reduce the number of arrests at the age of 15 by case for this railway and upgrading existing rail networks is a 80%. So dealing with several hundred individuals and better alternative. doing so effectively costs roughly the same amount as The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons failing to deal effectively with three young people, 16-year- urges the Government to reconsider its support for the proposed olds, later on in life. High Speed Railway and support the upgrading of existing rail networks. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): And the Petitioners remain, etc. The hon. Gentleman and I are in huge agreement on [P000944] this subject. Does he agree that more than 80% of long-term prison inmates suffer from problems that stem back to early infant attachment?

Mr Allen: Indeed, and the costs are absolutely enormous and continuing. They continue through the generations, whereas one effective early intervention costs only for the one occasion, does not need to be repeated and proves to be very effective. I make many recommendations in my recent report for Her Majesty’s Government, “Early intervention: Smart Investment, Massive Savings”. The ones I would particularly like to talk about tonight involve the Treasury. I ask the Minister for her first thoughts on these recommendations. I am very grateful for the assistance I received from the Chancellor, the whole Treasury team and, indeed, Treasury officials—and, above all, from the Minister herself. She helped me in various ways— although the faults in the report are entirely my own—to make the second report a practical and pragmatic programme of work rather than a flight of fancy. There are no magic bullets. This is all about a practical, long-running and consistent effort to try to bring social and emotional capability to our babies, children and young people, which will repay us over and over again throughout the life cycle, as we avoid the costs associated with drink and drug abuse, teenage pregnancy, a lifetime on welfare benefits, educational underachievement, and so on and so forth. That benefit can come from just a little bit of early investment. The key relevant recommendations to the Treasury concern the comprehensive spending review; rebalancing central Government spending from late to early intervention; a Whitehall task and finish group, which I shall talk about; a serious proposal for departmental 587 Early Intervention14 JULY 2011 Early Intervention 588 payments, introducing a payment-by-results system home for the start of a transition from late to early effectively across Whitehall; liberating our local authorities intervention. Similarly, £55 billion is spent on children so that they can be our partners in pursuing early and children’s services in the United Kingdom. A minor intervention policies; and using the 2012 Budget to adjustment, in percentage terms, made incrementally incentivise early intervention investment. I propose to on an annual basis could begin to shift us from the costs look at each of those in turn. of failure to investment in the success of our babies, First, I have suggested that the Treasury consider children and young people. theming the next CSR around early intervention. The The Department of Health, the Home Department usual cross-departmental effort that goes in ahead of and the Ministry of Justice already have machinery for every CSR should be directed at early intervention such an incremental change. They run prevention across all Departments. That includes the research programmes of various sorts, all of which could be programme and the evaluation, which should be used to steadily and progressively geared up. Such a reorientation assess what is being spent on early intervention by of internal spending could also provide some of the Departments, thus providing a baseline from which we resources needed to pay investors for the outcome-based can judge the costs, benefits and potential savings to contracts to which I referred in my report, and about taxpayers from early intervention policies and programmes. which I shall say more later. It could be described as This CSR preparation should also include commissioning payment by results. long-range surveys, studies and longitudinal programmes I also propose the establishment of a task and finish so that we can add daily to the evidence base for early group. This may sound an internal, dry subject, but in intervention and its role in saving massive amounts of preparing my report I discovered that although tremendous taxpayers’ money from being captured by the long-term work is going on throughout Whitehall in different costs of failure. Above all, doing this in the CSR will Departments, it is not always joined up; it does not symbolise the Government’s approach and the switch in always connect. People do not always know what the philosophy to give strong signals to Departments next Department is doing, for one reason or another. throughout Whitehall and indeed in local areas. We will That is not a criticism of anyone working in those thus be demonstrating that we are moving from talking Departments or on those programmes—on the contrary, the talk to walking the walk. I was very impressed by the way in which all Departments I want to put on the record that it is evident from the set about their work—but it is a criticism of the fact discussions I have had with all parties and with all party that no Governments have co-ordinated such action to leaders, including the Prime Minister, that there is a the level that I would like to see, a level that would add very strong desire to move—incrementally, admittedly— value if people all worked together. across this divide between our typical, traditional late I have suggested that the existing Cabinet Social intervention policies and early intervention. This is not Justice Committee should be given more teeth, and that just to save money; it will also help to make good many it should have a task and finish group—perhaps with an of the social failures that arise because we do not tackle independent chair, but that is a matter for Government problems early enough and let them get rooted before to decide—which could offer an independent eye, and we start to invest money in them—often too little, too promote Government change via the Committee. Through late. consistency, long-termism and progress-chasing, it could The second issue is the rebalancing of funding in achieve, through Whitehall, some of the important Departments. It is easy to demand big switches of objectives and milestones that the Government may financing from one place to another, but that is a pipe choose to set in the early intervention strategy that I dream which we did not entertain in the report. What proposed in my report. we did consider was the fact that we have spent billions Such a group should, as a matter of course, report to of pounds, decade after decade, often with only marginal all party leaders to maintain what I hope is the helpful impacts on, in particular, the social and emotional benchmark that has been set of establishing this as a capabilities of babies, children and young people, especially non-party issue. I am delighted to pay tribute to those those in poorer areas and constituencies such as mine. Members of all parties who have taken this issue so We discussed how we might push back the spending seriously, and the fact that the three main party leaders and personnel juggernaut of late intervention, and start have kindly said good things about both the first and to invest, gently and incrementally, in early intervention. second reports underlines my belief that this is a non-party A great deal of evidence was given to my inquiry. One issue. Indeed, they have supplied quotes, expressing of our proposals is a gentle shift—within departmental embarrassingly kind sentiments about the philosophy budgets, and involving no extra money—from late to of early intervention, for the back page of each of the early intervention. Following discussions with Departments, reports. What we now need to do is make a practical I propose—modestly, I hope—not a top-slicing of budgets proposition, and I hope we can put into effect my to a pooled early intervention fund run by one Department recommendation of establishing an effective task and or another, but a slow, incremental migration of funding, finish group. within existing budgets, from late to early intervention. Another Treasury-oriented recommendation is our I proposed that it should amount to just 1% a year, proposal about the Treasury, Departments and local which is incredibly modest. It would be possible to areas introducing a proper payments-by-results system, move such spending slowly and relatively easily, and no so that benefits can accrue to central and local government additional spending by Departments would be required. for investing in the right package of policies and getting In education, for instance, an obvious way of using external investors interested in this field. Central an existing function, organisation or budget head would Government need to play a role in co-commissioning, be through the early intervention grant itself, which or co-paying for, the outcomes set by local areas. Her currently amounts to £2.2 billion. That would be a good Majesty’s Treasury and other Departments would therefore 589 Early Intervention14 JULY 2011 Early Intervention 590

[Mr Allen] investment calculations. Short-term cuts that jeopardise massive long-term returns should, of course, be avoided. need to work at putting in place methods of accounting Rules and methods of working established in a different to ensure that future payments based on successful local era, in a different public expenditure environment, need outcomes are honoured. It is obviously a matter of to be reviewed. great concern that local authorities feel, rightly or wrongly, If we can do that, and if our friends in the Treasury that if they are successful they will be penalised by the can take some of these proposals seriously—as I know withdrawal of other grants or financial assistance. When they would, as they made a strong contribution to my drawing up the contracts and talking to local authorities review—we will be on the verge of changing the spending about this issue, we need to make it clear that their culture in our country, moving from wasteful, expensive payments will be honoured when they reach the endgame spending when problems are deep-seated to pre-emptive of the payment-by-results exercise. and preventive spending to help babies, children and In my report I have outlined a number of areas where young people develop the social and emotional capability local authorities have an important role to play. I do not that will see them realising their potential in the same have time to go into them now, but one that would bear way that we want to see our children realising theirs. examination is the possibility of looking again at issuing This is an important field. In many ways, it is a slow a capitalisation directive to councils that will perhaps burner, not one that heralds dramatic change. This is a allow up to £500 million-worth of early intervention field in which there must be a serious commitment to spending to be capitalised, provided that it is funded change public policy on behalf of all parties. If we do through the local bond market. If one accepts, as the that, not only will the benefits to those children be Government and the main political parties now seem immense, but the repayments to the taxpayer will be to, that early intervention represents an essential investment massive. in human capital for future generations, there is a strong case for allowing local authorities to finance that 6.22 pm by using money in the same way as they would to finance a bridge or a building. The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Justine Greening): There are a number of Adjournment debates The final recommendation that the Treasury may that I might have a chance to respond to as a Treasury want to think about now that my report is in the public Minister, but of all of them, this is probably the one in domain is to do with the 2012 Budget and whether the which I would be most keen to participate. The hon. Treasury can assess properly the possibilities of incentivising Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) has done a early intervention investment. It was clear from my great deal of work in an area that for many years was review that tax incentives would be a popular and debated on moral grounds—“What’s the right thing to effective way of incentivising early intervention and do?” That was absolutely right, but his contribution has social investment more generally. The possibility of been to say why it is in everybody’s interest to address creating a market in social investment and social finance these issues and, in particular, to focus on early intervention. is a prize indeed, and if we manage to create a social That work will have longevity in this place and beyond. finance market within, perhaps, 10 years, that will be a Indeed, I think that I speak for Members across the measure of our success. House when I pay tribute to the work that he has done, Of course everyone would like to have an incentive. I not just in contributing to this Government’s policy, but did not see it as my role to provide a set of demands to in the years prior to that. which Government had to say yes or no. However, I The hon. Gentleman talked about some of the would like there to be a serious exercise before the recommendations in the recent, second—and final—report Budget, so that the Government examine all possible on his review of early intervention. As he knows, we are ways of sucking into early intervention investment still looking at those recommendations. I shall not philanthropic, ethical business and retail investors and pre-empt the conclusion, but I want to emphasise one wholesale investors. That would be extremely helpful. I thing. He said that he hoped that Ministers would take will say no more than let us learn from the creativity in those recommendations seriously, and I can absolutely other countries, such as tax credits in the Netherlands assure him that we do. In the time left, I shall try to and Australia, and money to contribute to social impact respond to as many of his points as possible, but I have bond payments in the USA. The US President has no doubt that in the weeks, months and perhaps even introduced rule changes so that money can be committed years to come, we will continue to debate these issues over longer periods than is commonplace in public both inside this Chamber and outside it. contracts. I agree that the case for investment in preventive In conclusion, the Treasury often says, rightly, that services is clear. As the hon. Gentleman set out in his having less money can drive us all to be more creative speech and in his review of early intervention, there is a and to challenge the old ways and the old rules. One of clear argument. That argument shows that the more the threads in the report is that this should apply that we can do in government and the more that those equally to Government thinking, and to Treasury thinking working with children can do to intervene earlier, the in particular. Money is scarce, so ideas on how better to more likely children are both to reach their full potential, spend existing public funds should be encouraged and as he said, and to develop well both socially and emotionally. new sources of funding should be incentivised. Due Not only are the costs of not doing so significant for diligence, which is commonplace in the private sector, them as developing people, but there are financial costs should now be used at all levels of government to for the rest of society, as he pointed out, including in question the comparative costs of wasteful, late intervention local communities. So the costs of not tackling these versus early intervention alternatives. Levels of savings issues are significant and they do contribute to an to be achieved should be an integral part of all public ongoing negative cycle. 591 Early Intervention14 JULY 2011 Early Intervention 592

The hon. Gentleman discussed just some of the examples way, to understand where Government spending is going in this area. Let us consider that of children on the edge in relation to early intervention and some of the complex of care. A three-year study of multi-systemic therapy at aspects of early intervention. I hope that the projects the Brandon centre in Camden, which he is probably that we now have running across government should aware of, has shown that cost savings ranged between give us a much better chance of doing that as we £1,200 and £8,900 per family intervention, in addition approach the next spending review. As the hon. Gentleman to there being a reduced risk of offending and family proposes, we will continue to push on that within the conflict. Data from 10 of those multi-systemic therapy Treasury and across government to make sure that we pilots for children on the edge of care or custody do understand the costs and benefits of different policies indicate that, by the end of the intervention, custody or and programmes, both individually and collectively. care was avoided for 90% of children who had been at One thing that he referred to less in his speech, but risk of those outcomes. Of course, children who avoid which is important, is coming out of the work on early care are more likely to succeed academically, and are years and that is the need to continue investment. Once therefore more likely to earn more and lead more fulfilling initial investments are made, they should be followed up lives. That is just one example of how powerful early with the individual. intervention approaches can be. I know that I am going to run out of time, but I want I want to discuss public spending, because the hon. to mention community budgeting and the need to consider Gentleman talked about the next spending review being budgets from the perspective of the individual who based on the theme of early intervention and said that, receives the services rather than constantly considering in preparation for this, the balance of central Government them in silos. We want to address that. spending should be shifted by 1% per year from late to The hon. Gentleman talked briefly about tax measures early intervention. One of the things that I want to say and he is right to flag up that we should not lose sight of to him is that in the year and a bit that I have spent as a the fact that much of the early intervention agenda has Treasury Minister I have found that the key to this is involved money transfers. For us, one challenge is something that may seem boring but actually becomes considering how that money is invested, whether we incredibly important. He talked about the need for an have alternatives and how some of the services and evidence base, and I think that he has created that with programmes he talks about stack up in terms of value the work that he has done, as has some of the work for money for the public and those who receive them carried out in other countries. One of the challenges for when set against some of the more traditional methods the Government is to ensure that we have a good we have used, such as income transfers between families, internal evidence base on where our money is being the Government and individuals. spent. The agenda is very exciting and I know that the The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the children Government will have the chance to respond to the hon. and families taskforce that was set up by the Prime Gentleman’s second report. I look forward to taking Minister, which informed some of our spending review. forward some of his suggestions and developing them. One of the exercises involved looking at where the portfolio mix of spend currently is, for example, on Mr Allen: Does the hon. Lady realise that she might early years provision. That was not perhaps as easy a have three more minutes and that the debate does not task for us as it ought to have been. One of the key need to stop at 6.30pm? I know she has further notes things that the Treasury is now doing is progressing prepared. what seemed like mundane “accountantesque” projects, such as putting in place a chart of accounts and upgrading the Combined Online Information System—COINS— Justine Greening: I did not realise that. I am delighted database so that it is actually one that we can use to because it means I will be able to get through a few analyse data. The “themes” that the hon. Gentleman more of the comments I wanted to make. describes are part of a broader challenge the Government As I mentioned briefly, the agenda is not just about face in understanding where the money is going; we money but about the quality of public services delivered need to understand our normal items of spend and the on the ground. The hon. Gentleman talked about joined-up aim of them. That will give us a chance better to join up government and we must focus more on that. Community the oversight across spending as it happens in different budgeting will help as will stopping ring-fencing at local Departments. authority level, but there are broader challenges in how I talked about the Prime Minister’s children and we knit together national and local government policy families taskforce and in the 2010 spending review we at that local level. The work he is doing could feed into did allocate significant resources to support early some of those thoughts. intervention. The hon. Gentleman talked about the Just the other week, on 11 July, we published our value of the family nurse partnership programme. We “Open Public Services” White Paper, which set out the are recruiting 4,200 health visitors and expanding that Government’s vision for excellent services. The principles programme. Of course we have also established the that we have set out of choice, decentralisation, diversity, early intervention grant. In doing so, we intend to fair access and accountability will start to open up local signal the importance of this agenda that we all care authorities’ ability to deliver services more innovatively. about so much. We have committed to maintain a The contribution to this agenda made by the charities network of Sure Start children’s centres and, as he and organisations we all come across—perhaps the knows, to expand the free early education entitlement hon. Gentleman more than other Members—will be to disadvantaged two-year-olds. We are also putting in better able to be made with a more open approach to place other measures such as the fairness premium. I public service delivery than we have perhaps had in the hope that we will be able, perhaps in a more sophisticated past. 593 Early Intervention14 JULY 2011 Early Intervention 594

[Justine Greening] does not hinder the right projects. He also mentioned payment by results, which is one thing on which we are I also want to talk briefly about a couple of other keen to push ahead across government. aspects. The hon. Gentleman talked about the independent I can see that I have now run out of time— foundation he wants to set up and we very much welcome that as it can play an important role in this whole process. He also mentioned the use of innovative financing 6.33 pm mechanisms and he was absolutely right. Again, that is one of those boring but important aspects of the agenda. House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order We need to unlock Government financing so that it No. 9(7)). 155WH 14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 156WH

there must be scope for a significant part of that finance Westminster Hall to be channelled into wealth-focused, pro-poor development funds. We certainly believe that a well-targeted, well- Thursday 14 July 2011 managed fund could unlock a lot more for pro-poor development.

[MR CHARLES WALKER in the Chair] Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): As a fellow member of the Committee, I praise the Chair and his Future of CDC draft, which we accepted without any amendments. He [Relevant documents: Fifth Report of the International rightly says that diaspora communities want to invest in Development Committee, HC 607, and the Government their mother countries. One example is the Pakistani response, HC 1045.] community, which invests heavily in Pakistan. However, Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting one regular problem is that the investments are risky be now adjourned.—(Mr Newmark.) and do not give the returns sought. If CDC reformed itself to appeal to diaspora communities, that could 2.30 pm lead to much more effective aid and development in their countries. Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): I am glad to have the opportunity to open this debate on the future of CDC, and I appreciate the fact that the Secretary of State for Malcolm Bruce: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that International Development has undertaken to respond intervention. CDC opens up the opportunity to do a lot to it. of things differently in the future that could unlock funding from a variety of different sources. That will be CDC is a remarkably important part of our development a mark of its success. armoury, and it is likely to undergo substantial changes in the coming years, as our Committee recommended in We also recommend that CDC should try to invest its report. I need not detain hon. Members long by funds where private capital otherwise might not go—or saying that CDC—originally the Colonial Development not on a scale or on terms that would meet the needs of Corporation, subsequently the Commonwealth Development the poor. There is plenty of evidence throughout the Corporation, and now just the CDC—is the Government’s world that some market opportunities do not always development finance institution and the fourth largest attract adequate investment because they are regarded in the world. On its own terms, it has been a success, in as unfashionable or remote, or because their benefits the sense that it has grown its assets from £1.2 billion to are counter-intuitive. One example from the not-too-distant £2.7 billion since 2004. In 2009, which is the last year for past, and from quite close to home for me, is the which I have figures, it contributed £222 million towards Highlands and Islands Development Board. An interesting the UK’s official overseas development assistance. thing about the board is that it invested in its heyday in From a personal point of view, I would say that CDC stimulating new companies and initiatives across the has done well in terms of what it was asked to do, but it highlands and islands region. needs to do more and differently, and that is certainly I remember the chairman of the board giving evidence the recommendation of the Committee’s report. The to a Select Committee. When he was asked what return Government have reviewed CDC. The Secretary of the board made on its investment, how many losses and State said to me that as a fund of funds it is fine, but it bad debts it had and how that compared with the needs to be something more—I agree. Indeed, it has private sector, he answered, in summary, “Actually, our been my view for a number of years that CDC is too rate of return and bad debt is almost exactly the same distant from the Department for International Development as in the private sector.” That prompted the question, and that its full potential for helping to achieve private “Well, why do we need you, then?” and he answered, sector growth and development in our priority areas “Because the private sector wouldn’t go where we went.” has not been realised. I welcome the Secretary of State’s That is classically the case with CDC. It will and can go statement that he wants CDC to be to places where investment might not otherwise be “more pro-poor focused than any other development finance made, but where genuinely positive economic returns institution, doing the hardest things in the hardest places.” can be secured. [Interruption.] I am glad that my hon. If I may say so, that quote is characteristic of him. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) has I have often said that the International Development found his right place in the Chamber. I hope that he Committee is not the overseas aid Committee. If we are might catch your eye in due course, Mr Walker. to provide sustainable development that will lift poor It is right that a development finance initiative such people out of poverty and keep them out, we must as CDC should have, in addition to such priorities, an strengthen the private sector’s ability to support them. investment code that meets the Department’s environmental, As a fund of funds, CDC has levered additional finance, social and governance standards. That code should be and there is clearly a role for that to continue—indeed, used not as a barrier to attracting funds, but as a means that will probably be its predominant role—but we have of effectively certifying the quality of investment and suggested that CDC should consider whether it can, for attracting money from investors who want to meet example, attract more capital from diaspora funds. Diaspora certain high standards. There are examples of ethical finance far outweighs our overseas development assistance investment funds in the UK. People with such investments to many developing countries, but it is fair to acknowledge want to invest their money in ways that have particularly that, understandably, much of that money goes back to beneficial social outcomes. I am certain that people will the families and communities from which the diaspora want to invest in ways that deliver benefits to the poor, has come. However, the Committee took the view that but they will also want to know that it is being done in a 157WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 158WH

[Malcolm Bruce] their use is that they create financial efficiency that attracts more money than would otherwise be the case, businesslike and commercial way—not through a charity, and that that does not, in fact, mean that taxes are not but through an organisation designed to create sustainable being paid. Unattached—orphan—money that was economic development. not directly related to a particular geographical area or One problem with and criticism of a fund of funds is activity could be reinvested in the fund and, in effect, that, by definition, it creates long lines of communication the tax not paid on the tax haven funds represented and limited direct control. Many transactions are happening money available for reinvestment. The Norwegian at a long remove. Given that it is a development finance development finance institution recently took a policy institution, it is therefore necessary, first of all, to decision to pull out of tax havens, and doing so dramatically ensure that the impact is properly assessed and measured. reduced the attraction of additional finance. Our view We have called on the Government to ensure that that is is that we should look at the situation clearly. There done more effectively than in the past. A proper assessment should be transparency and institutions should always should be made of what jobs were created, whether they pay taxes appropriately and properly, but we have asked were quality, permanent jobs, and whether those jobs the Government to consider whether they should provide were adequately paid. That is the essence of sustainability a rule about the correct role of tax havens. To be frank, as well as of the pro-poor benefit of the investment. the Committee did not feel that there was enough The same applies to transparency. People need to know authoritative evidence to make a definitive recommendation. where the money is being invested and whether it is being invested in appropriate things with which people Anas Sarwar: In the spirit of transparency, does the feel comfortable. They need the assurance that its primary right hon. Gentleman agree that it might be a good idea outcome is benefiting poor people. for the Government to consider whether they should request that CDC publishes what taxes it pays and what That point raised a debate in the Committee about profits it makes for every country it works in? what people should be paid. It is somewhat embarrassing that the CDC has suffered criticism for that in the past. Given that its primary purpose is to help the poorest Malcolm Bruce: Absolutely, and I obviously hope the people in the world, high rates of remuneration and Secretary of State can give us that assurance. bonuses for its executives create an uncomfortable anomaly In a sense, the organisation needs to be a trailblazer that needs to be addressed. for what an investment model in developing countries ought to be, and a role model not only for other DFIs, Mr Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) (Con): Does the right but for the well-intentioned private sector. We have hon. Gentleman agree that it is not just about the concluded that there is scope for clarification at the very absolute level of salaries and bonuses, but about the least and for the maximum transparency. time horizon within which they are paid? If we are to do We were as shocked as the Secretary of State that serious development work or to make investments with despite the sale of Actis, the fund manager, for £373,000 a development impact, people should be thinking about and the fact that the Government were apparently the long term, rather than about short-term gains. entitled to 80% of the proceeds, not a penny had been paid by the time the Committee took evidence. I know Malcolm Bruce: I absolutely agree. My view is that that he was anxious to vent his spleen about that when that is a good criterion for every form of investment, he gave evidence to us. I do not know whether he will be but especially in this context. able to give any indication today of whether the Government can sell their share and, if they do so, The Committee received interesting evidence on whether we will get a fair rate of return—after all, that remuneration, which we debated. The standard response will be reinvested for the benefit of poor people. on CDC has been, “It has been set up as a market-based model competing for funds in the marketplace, so we Perhaps the Committee’s most significant have to pay people market-based salaries.” I am not recommendation was that the investment model for saying that there is no connection between those things, CDC should be changed. I know that the Government but we received significant evidence that there were have not entirely accepted our recommendations, but I people who would be prepared to work for considerably think that they acknowledge the strength of their principle less than the market rate, although not necessarily for and the spirit. We recognise that the fund of funds peanuts, given that, in the peak year, the chief executive’s model could unlock a substantial amount and that it package totalled £1 million, which included a salary of does attract investment. Particularly if the report’s several hundred thousand pounds. However, there are recommendations are taken on board, that could be people who will work not for £20 a week, but perhaps focused in a way that gives real, sustainable, long-term for £50,000, £100,000 or £150,000 a year, on the grounds benefits to poor people in poor countries. that they have an opportunity to give something back We felt that some of the money needed to go into from their own career by contributing their experience more direct, riskier and more pro-poor investment. at a time when they do not need the money. We asked That means not that it should be thrown away or the Government to look at that. I appreciate that that invested irresponsibly, but that lower rates of return can create tensions, but as long as the process is done should be acceptable or that a mix of grants and loans openly, the model would draw some of the sting out of should be applied. We suggested the name “CDC Frontier” the criticism that has been levelled in the past. to indicate that the body would be operating slightly Similarly, the Committee had an interesting discussion more experimentally. about the use and role of tax havens. We recognised that One point about our recommendation of having two things were not as simple as we had thought when we separate businesses was that because the fund of funds started to look into the situation. The argument for has been very successful at attracting and unlocking 159WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 160WH substantial extra funding—it has provided very good Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): Is it not leverage—we were concerned that a more risk-associated true that CDC could help not only with productivity set of investments in the same fund might frighten off and increasing yield, but by working with the farmers some investors who have contributed. I hope that the with very small plots of land to enable them to join Secretary of State will reassure us and that his response together as a co-operative, because that would give shows that he has taken our concern on board. As long them a greater income overall? When the Committee as the Department and the way in which CDC is went to India, we saw a diversity of products compared established are able to reassure those people, the Committee with the sorts of crops grown in Burundi, Rwanda and, will be content if our specific model is not adopted. I indeed, the Democratic Republic of the Congo. It would hope that the Secretary of State understands that the be better if people could diversify and have larger plots proposal was not a gimmick, but a genuine attempt to so that they can make more money, which would come ensure that we had the balance of the changing nature back to CDC and benefit all those incredibly poor of the business right and that we did not have a higher-risk people we saw when we stayed in Burundi. aspect undermining the area with a proven track record. The Committee felt that there should be some agreement Malcolm Bruce: I certainly agree that we want a on the sort of sectors within which CDC should operate, partnership that looks at the best way of optimising and but the Government did not entirely accept that maximising production from which the community can recommendation. I appreciate the reason behind the benefit. I know that the Government have said that they absence of the hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy). are unwilling to direct CDC into particular sectors, but He is a valued member of our Committee and has real I hope that the Secretary of State will indicate that he expertise in agricultural development in east Africa. He will also not be telling it not to go into particular was rightly exercised by the view that most countries in sectors. I hope that the Government will listen to the which we have the greatest commitment to pro-poor Committee’s view that CDC should try to explore such development are rural, and agricultural productivity is an area because that approach would give it an expertise a major cause of poverty. The Committee accepts that that would be beneficial and could be replicated elsewhere. the world is changing. We have produced a report on Although today might not be the appropriate time urban poverty and increasing urbanisation, so we do for the Secretary of State to comment on this, he will be not see development as something that just happens in aware of the engagement that we have all had in our remote parts of rural Africa, which is sometimes the development programme in India. He has set a target of public image. However, it is true that in both the sub- 50% for the level of Indian overseas development assistance continent and Africa, a high proportion of the poorest going into private sector development by the end of people depend on agriculture for their livelihoods, yet 2014-15. For absolute clarity, I should say that the the productivity of agriculture is frankly abysmal in Committee did not dissent from that as a principle, but many cases. we were concerned about whether the mechanisms existed, When the Committee recently visited east Africa, or would exist, to achieve that figure. It will be interesting some of us spent a night in a village in the heart of rural to see the role of CDC and equivalent partners in Burundi— relation to that, particularly because the Government of India have made it clear that they are not keen on the Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab) rose— UK Government’s aid programme being used to subsidise private sector investment. Malcolm Bruce: I will not take any interventions on To return to the example I cited with regard to the that point. There is an internal issue in the Committee. Highlands and Islands Development Board, there were In Burundi, we witnessed for ourselves some of the projects in the states that we went to—Bihar and Andhra poorest of the planet’s poor people struggling. I was Pradesh—that probably would yield a return, but are going to say that they were on the edge, but they were unable to attract investment because they are off the beyond the edge—they were not operating at survival sexy horizon of where people want to invest in India. It levels. If it were not for the intervention of non- is possible for the Secretary of State’s objectives to be governmental organisations, I do not think that they achieved, but the revamped CDC and the equivalent would have survived. It was estimated that their per-capita model may have to be worked up to a point where that income was 20p a day. Apart from very basic and poor can deliver. That is not possible at present and, to be living conditions—no electricity, one tap for 4,000 people fair, the Secretary of State has not said that it should and pit latrines, although not for everybody—we saw happen as of today. However, a lot needs to be done in exhausted soil, diseased plants and minimal yields that the next three or four years if that is to be delivered. were inadequate even for self-sufficient farming, never I can summarise things with a slightly personal view. mind cash-cropping. I have been Chair of the Committee for six years, The hon. Member for Stafford, as someone who including throughout the previous Parliament. As I knew a little more about agriculture than other Committee have said before, the creation of DFID was a considerable members, said that it should be possible to perform a achievement of which the previous Labour Government soil analysis, to work out nutritional benefits and to had every justification to be proud. I have no hesitation advise on disease-resistant plants, and possibly to increase in saying that. However, after that length of time and the yield of the agricultural holdings by up to eight to with a new Government in office, it is also right and 10 times. That would be a massive return, so we felt that proper to review, reprioritise and reassess. CDC should be part of the process of tackling that Until recently, DFID was not comfortable with the problem. We would like to think that it would consider role of interacting with the private sector. What people investing in improving agricultural outputs in such poor in DFID do in development terms is brilliant and world countries. class. Indeed, I am not criticising the people involved 161WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 162WH

[Malcolm Bruce] and how the Secretary of State sees it. When we visited India, that issue came home to me when we came across because they did what they were asked to do. However, a target of 50% for how much of the Department’s whenever there was a discussion about private sector budget should be spent in the private sector. I had not co-operation and partnership, there was a tendency to heard of that before. It is obviously very well known say, “Well, that’s what CDC does. We’ll park that and that the Government felt that more of the Department’s get on with our development job.” In future, there needs activities should be channelled through the private sector—I to be more of a mingling of the two. When one role is do not necessarily demur from that—but it was the first more risky, complicated and difficult, there is always a time I had heard that there was actually a target of 50%. worry that it could compromise the other. I understand A number of my colleagues and I found that a bit those concerns, but the relationship between the Department surprising because, if DFID is about doing what is right and CDC as it changes needs to be slightly more hands to combat poverty, the private sector should be utilised on. There needs to be more parallel working between where it is appropriate, and what in some places might CDC in country and DFID programmes in country, be called the third sector and the public sector should and a greater understanding about them between the be utilised where that is appropriate. The objective two. should determine the percentage. That is not what My final example about that comes from a briefing seems to be happening here, where the percentage is in the Committee enjoyed—my hon. Friend the Member danger of determining the objective. for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham) was there in As we asked more questions about that, I got more Aberdeen—from the Wood Family Trust, which I hope confused about exactly what the policy was. When the will give evidence to us in the autumn on a different Secretary of State winds up, will he clarify where the inquiry. The trust was engaged in a project in east 50% figure comes from, rather than 40%, 30%, 60% or Africa on making markets work for the poor. It is a 80%? Why 50%? If such a target is appropriate for private family foundation, and it started off by saying, India, is there a 50% target for other areas where the “We’re going to give the money we’ve made”— Department is operating? If so, what is that based on? predominately out of the oil and gas industry—“and Is it based on the same criteria as for India or is it based put it into development in Africa, because that’s about on different criteria? If the figure is not 50% for other putting something back. We’re business people and areas, how did he arrive at the different percentages? I we’ll do the business thing.” Indeed, that was precisely am genuinely confused about how that works. what it was doing. However, it rapidly realised that it I would also like to know what the join is between could not do what it wanted without being in partnership that figure and the role of CDC. Certainly there was an with the public sector. It is interesting to note that the uneasiness among some of our interlocutors in India public sector needs to partner the private sector and the about DFID saying that it wished to devote 50% of its reverse is also true. It is the working together that activities to the private sector. That was not because the delivers the best results. people we spoke to considered private sector investment I commend to the Secretary of State the fact that, to be unimportant. Indeed, a number of the most when the Committee is visiting any bilateral partner in creative projects that we saw there could go under the the future, we are likely to get a briefing about what is heading of private sector projects, and they were often happening between the development programme and very small scale and very pro-poor. As the right hon. CDC in that country. We have not had that in the Member for Gordon mentioned, the people concerned past—CDC has almost been a different organisation. were questioning whether, if this is going to be done on I commend our report to hon. Members. I am very an industrial scale and on the basis of a particular grateful to the Secretary of State for attending the percentage, it should be a private sector-led activity—the debate and, indeed, for his constructive response to private sector investing—rather than something done the report. I look forward to him updating us because I by DFID directly. am aware that since our report was published, things have moved on a bit with regard to initiatives to revamp Anas Sarwar: Does my hon. Friend recall the conversation and reinvigorate CDC. The Committee is very much that the Committee had with representatives of the looking forward to hearing about that. Indian Government, who said that they would not see direct private investments by the Department for International Development as aid assistance? They recommended that 2.56 pm DFID create a private sector wing, or arm, of its organisation Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): I to make those investments. In this case, it could be endorse and congratulate the right hon. Member for argued that that wing is CDC. If that 50% of funding Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), the Chair of the Committee, does not go through CDC, does that not highlight the on the way in which he has introduced the report. As I failures of CDC? am a Committee member, it would be rather surprising if I said that I disagreed with the report, so I will say Richard Burden: My hon. Friend makes a good point. that I agree with it, having participated in its compilation. In a sense, that is what I am getting at. I well remember In addition, my life on the Committee would not be that discussion. There was unease about the percentage. worth living if I said anything else. There was certainly a view that there was a need for I would like to ask the Secretary of State a couple of vehicles specifically attuned to that, rather than simply questions. In a sense, this picks up where the right hon. a percentage of the aid assistance programme. Does the Gentleman finished. He talked about the join between Secretary of State see CDC as the vehicle for delivering the Department’s private sector activities and those of that percentage, or do CDC’s activities somehow sit on CDC. I am still a bit uncertain about where that join is top of that? If he does see it as the vehicle, has he 163WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 164WH communicated that down to his officials in the field, so claims was paid for its investment in a Nigerian fertiliser that they are not necessarily structuring their budgets in company, and what was actually received for the shares a way that might not be what he wants to achieve? If he in Nigeria. The fertiliser company is reported—alleged—to does not see it as the role of CDC to take that role—back be a front for Mr Ibori. Yet this appears to have gone to my original question—where is the join between unnoticed by CDC and, once it was informed, unreported what the Department itself does directly and what CDC too. In future, will CDC be required to report such does, particularly in regard to its direct investments, information, if there are reasonable grounds to suspect rather than its role as a fund of funds? that a crime has been committed? There are other causes for concern. CDC continues 3.1 pm to be an investor in a bank whose director has been jailed and in other indicted investee companies. Those Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I am companies include one where a former CEO is facing grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate, criminal charges in Nigeria as well as civil action in the particularly because I am not a member of the International UK and another which Private Eye magazine has accused Development Committee, although I follow its work of tax evasion and corruption. DFID’s response has closely. I welcome the Committee’s report on CDC, been equally worrying. When concerns were raised, did which has operated in the shadows for too long and it seek further information from Mr Oloko? No, it did which is increasingly a subject of public concern. not. Did it bring in independent investigators? No, it I am pleased to note that the issue of compliance by did not. All it has done is to ask the funds and CDC—the CDC fund managers with the Department for International very institutions whose actions need investigation—to Development-sponsored CDC investment code has been give assurances that no wrongdoing occurred. That is raised in the report, because it is an important issue. I not sufficient to reassure the public. have followed the issue at first hand after one of my A key question, still to be answered, is whether CDC constituents, Mr Dotun Oloko, came to see me about passed on the information that it received from Mr Oloko the investments of two CDC-backed funds in Nigeria, to the police, as required under the Proceeds of Crime Ethos and Emerging Capital Partners. Mr Oloko’s concerns Act 2002. We do not know, because CDC refuses to say. have been set out in written evidence received by the When I met the director of the Serious Fraud Office Committee, so I will not detail them here. Suffice to say earlier this year, he told me that he learned about the that Nigeria’s Economic and Financial Crimes Commission concerns directly from my constituent, Mr Oloko. reports that four of the companies in which CDC-backed CDC’s Nigerian investments are not the only causes funds have been invested are fronts for laundering money. for concern. CDC also invested in funds that have That money is said to have been corruptly obtained by backed companies accused of human rights abuses, James Ibori, the ex-Governor of Nigeria’s Delta state. such as Anvil Mining, and of profiting at the expense of Mr Ibori, who has previously been convicted twice in the poor. For example, in Uganda the CDC-backed the UK, is on trial here again, this time for alleged power distributor Umeme has hiked electricity prices to money-laundering offences involving CDC investee the point where many poorer Ugandans have been companies. forced to steal electricity from the grid; Umeme’s manager CDC’s investment in such companies raises many is reported to have called for their execution. concerns. As hon. Members will recall, CDC’s investment DFID officials have argued that the measure of CDC’s code requires that all businesses in which CDC’s capital contribution to relieving poverty is the profitability of is invested must the companies backed by its funds, which is not a “comply with all applicable laws and international standards serious argument. While investment is certainly needed intended to prevent bribery and financial crime.” to relieve poverty, it is both simplistic and irrational to Under these rules, companies with links to a politically assume that any investment, even if conditioned by exposed person, such as Mr Ibori, his relatives and close environmental and social safeguards, automatically associates, should have been subject to an enhanced due translates into positive impacts on poverty reduction diligence process. Why did the funds fail to pick up on simply because that investment generates growth. these links, even after they had been brought before a Before I was elected to this House, I worked for Nigerian court and were widely publicised in print and Oxfam for more than 10 years. I have seen some of in the electronic media? A simple internet search would these development questions at first hand. Many of the have revealed the details of corruption associated with funds in which CDC invests make extensive use of tax these CDC investee companies. havens. I listened with interest to the right hon. Member I also want to know whether procedures were in for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) on the complications and place, both within the funds and within CDC, to ensure issues around tax havens, which is a matter of concern. compliance with money laundering laws in the UK, the Those funds are using tax havens, and although the US, Jersey, South Africa and Mauritius—all countries right hon. Gentleman explained that that is not always where the funds and CDC are variously registered. For to avoid paying taxes, it still raises concerns. example, here in the UK, the Money Laundering Regulations 2003 require CDC to implement procedures Malcolm Bruce: I want to reassure the hon. Lady that to forestall and prevent money laundering. If, as the we share those concerns. We did not dispel them; we evidence from this case suggests, CDC has failed in that just felt that the matter was more complicated than we respect, will there now be a broader review of CDC’s had appreciated. In a wider inquiry, we did not have portfolio with regard to money laundering risks? time to come to a definitive conclusion. The concerns My constituent Mr Oloko’s own investigations revealed exist and we need assurances, but she should accept the another stunning fact: a discrepancy of several million danger that investment may be driven away if the matter pounds between the amount one of CDC-backed funds is handled wrongly. 165WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 166WH

Caroline Lucas: I hope that the issue can be looked at governance regimes are simply not there in some of in greater detail. I appreciate that it is complex, but these countries, and especially in those that face conflict. none the less there are real causes for concern. Ultimately, the UK taxpayer could suffer as a result. The Government have acknowledged many of the There was therefore the difficulty of returns, the political concerns about CDC. I am encouraged that that has risk and the issue of operating in conflict areas. That strengthened CDC’s environmental, social and governance was the attitude with which I approached the Committee’s procedures. CDC is also committed to introducing new report. development impact indicators and to developing new Having looked at the report and been on our visit to investment instruments, so that it no longer operates Rwanda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and exclusively as a fund-of-funds investor. By 2015, 20% of Burundi, I realise that private sector companies simply its investments will be loans and 20% of them will be will not take on certain types of investment, because the direct equity investments. However, that still leaves 60% returns are not there, and they will not allocate capital of its investments being delivered through private equity to such projects. With that in mind, it makes a lot of funds. I question whether such turbo-charged profit sense to see whether much of CDC’s effort could be seekers are always the appropriate development finance refocused, and the horizon is absolutely important. vehicles. Indeed, fund managers themselves are sceptical When CDC changed its business model, a lot of bankers about the compatibility of the fund-of-funds approach and private equity players ended up working there, and with DFID’s development objectives, particularly in from my experience in banking, I know that their outlook addressing poverty. is slightly different and the returns they look for are There are some important lessons to be learned here, very different. If an organisation is staffed by such most notably about the need for proper scrutiny of people, it might not always be consistent with looking development projects and for CDC’s investments to be at agriculture or infrastructure projects, which take properly monitored on a regular basis. My constituent quite a long time to deliver the development output that has looked at a relatively small proportion of CDC-backed we would expect. funds, but what he has already discovered makes me Having seen the Secretary of State’s response to the extremely concerned that there deep-seated problems Committee’s report, I have a couple of questions for that needed to be addressed as a matter of urgency. him. The first relates to sector focus, which was touched on by the Chair, who also mentioned the experience and Profiting from development at the expense of the expertise of my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford poor is easy; history is, unfortunately, replete with examples (Jeremy Lefroy) in agriculture. In the whole of Africa, of that. The more difficult challenge is to assist poorer we are seeing some of the consequences and difficulties people in designing and developing programmes for that come about if we do not have some of the best their own benefit, rather than that of their financial practice in agriculture. As we know, people in CDC had backers. I very much hope that CDC can rise to that that experience before it changed its business model, so challenge in the future. is there a case for saying that we should look at some Finally, I sincerely apologise for the fact that I cannot sort of sector focus to make a development impact? be present for the whole debate, although I will be here That is particularly relevant given what DFID came up for some time. I understand that it goes on until 5.30 with after the bilateral and multilateral aid reviews. pm. They did not say much about agriculture, so could CDC be the vehicle for looking at the issue? Malcolm Bruce: It can do. My next question for the Secretary of State relates to the skills and the knowledge base. If CDC is to change Caroline Lucas: If it does, I cannot be here until then. its business plan, I want to know a little more about I hope that the Secretary of State will forgive me, and how it will get the skills to deliver what will be a very none the less address some of the issues that I have different investment model. If it is going to focus on raised. I will avidly look at his response in Hansard. sub-Saharan Africa and Asia, it will need a lot of country knowledge and to be able to identify the best 3.10 pm transactions. It will also need people who are committed to the sector they are dealing with, which is very different Mr Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) (Con): It is a pleasure from a fund-of-funds model, where people’s skills base to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mr Walker. probably relates to choosing the right fund to put Most of us here agree about the vital role that an money into, rather than identifying the right investment organisation such as CDC can play, if it gets its model and the right management team, which will then be right, in driving growth and prosperity and in alleviating given ongoing support to ensure that the investment poverty in the process. yields a return. What work has been done on that? How I was not a member of the Committee when it will CDC be almost re-engineered to deliver the new conducted its inquiry, and I was quite worried, before I business plan? looked at its excellent report, about changing CDC’s The final point I want the Secretary of State to clarify business model. I was concerned about whether CDC is how the accountability link to the UK taxpayer will would be able to make the same returns. I thought we work. Obviously, it will be through the Department, but might be asking too much of an investment fund that I would like a greater sense of how that will work. The operates in some of the most difficult parts of the world Secretary of State has rightly focused on results as if we told it to focus only on those places that need regards our development and aid budget, and the its help the most, on those sectors where it can make Committee’s report focused a lot on how we can assess the most difference and in environments where levels development impact, but I want to know how we work of corruption could be quite high—as we know from out whether the UK taxpayer is getting value from what organisations such as Transparency International, is done. 167WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 168WH

Anas Sarwar: As the hon. Gentleman has rightly What do we want to achieve? There are two or three said, he was not a member of the Committee during our things that we need to do with this new-model CDC. inquiry. Having immersed himself in our work since he The first point to note, as my right hon. Friend the joined the Committee, however, he will agree that it was Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) and my hon. bizarre that when CDC’s managing director, chief executive Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) stressed, and chair came before us to give evidence, they could is the importance of agriculture. It is vital that private not, between the three of them, answer basic questions investment goes into agriculture. There has been news such as how many staff they employed, what the total in the past two or three years of major investments in wage bill was and what the total bonuses paid to their agriculture in sub-Saharan Africa. Those consist quite 46 members of staff were. Is that not an indication that often of sovereign funds taking large chunks of land on we need improved transparency, so that we can show a lease or perhaps a freehold basis, to promote their those things to the British people and get their trust in own domestic food security. I see some dangers in that. the process? First, the food security that we need to be most concerned about is in the countries in which the investments are Mr Gyimah: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his made. We do not want food to be exported from countries point. I totally agree that the British public need that are already suffering deficits, to other parts of the transparency about how the organisation is run. However, world. We need to encourage local production for local the success or failure of the fund’s operations also markets. Of course we need to encourage trade and depends on such details. exports. However, I have had personal experience of how there can be a surplus in one part of a country, I want the Secretary of State to clarify the points that which is traded overseas, while there is a deficit—indeed, I have raised. Let me say once again what a pleasure it is semi-famine—in other parts of the country. The problem to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Walker. is the logistics and infrastructure. We need to be a little wary about such investments. Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair): I call Miss Ali. [Interruption.] Sorry, Mr Lefroy—it would be helpful if I see CDC as having a tremendous role to play in Members could stand so that I can see that they want to encouraging a sustainable investment in agriculture, of speak. two kinds. That might, first, be in direct investments in socially responsible agribusinesses, and in businesses Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): I was standing. that perhaps work with smallholders at one remove. The future of increased productivity in agriculture in sub-Saharan Africa, and other parts of the world, is Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair): You were? Very often in the hands of smallholders, who know their land funny. best and are able to get fantastic results. Sometimes it is said that smallholder production is not up to the standard of that of large estates, but I dispute that. Where 3.17 pm smallholders have access to training, inputs, fertiliser, Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): I am grateful to you, up-to-date seeds, research and modern plants, they can Mr Walker. I was not sure whether I would be allowed produce at the same level as estates, and perhaps surpass to speak, not having notified you. I was in a Bill it. The cocoa crop is an example; it is produced almost Committee and I was not sure whether I could leave it. entirely by smallholders, not estates, for the simple reason that the smallholders generally do a much better I would like to follow my right hon. and hon. Friends job than estates have, where they have existed. It is clear and other hon. Members on the Committee by raising a that CDC in its new guise, either through CDC Frontier few points, and I apologise if I repeat some of what they or the existing CDC, could improve or increase its have said. I want to stress two or three issues that have investments, and go from what I believe is currently 6% come out of the report. I very much welcome the in agriculture to a much higher level. Government’s positive response and the way in which they have set about dealing with CDC—a body that Secondly, I believe that CDC has an important role has, let us not forget, been extremely successful. Its to play in the support and development of small and investments have gone up by something like £1.5 billion medium-sized enterprises. Our report showed that the over six or seven years, and any organisation would be average size of a company in which CDC had made an proud of that performance. CDC has received no taxpayer’s investment was quite substantial. If I remember rightly, money since 1995, and it is something of which the it would have an average of more than 1,000 employees. British people and the British Government—the previous Clearly, within that there were successful smaller companies. Conservative and Labour Governments and the current However, I believe that CDC could be one of the major coalition Government—can be proud. We need to set sources of funding in the spheres where it operates—perhaps all our remarks in that context. not directly for SMEs, because it might be too much to ask that it would invest in them directly, but certainly in As I said, I welcome the Secretary of State’s engagement funds such as GroFin, in which I believe it already with CDC right from the start, as well as his support for invests, and ManoCap in Sierra Leone; funds that invest the Committee’s work and the Government’s reaction in SMEs. CDC already has expertise in that area, and I to our recommendations. He did not necessarily accept would like it to expand that. that CDC should be split into two separate legal entities, and perhaps there could be two separate parts to the Finally, I believe that CDC needs to consider same legal entity. I understand his position, and we do infrastructure. It already invests quite a lot in that. I not want to create more complexity than is absolutely have referred to the importance of infrastructure in necessary, but we must aim to achieve what we want to agriculture and getting crops around the country. I achieve. think that DFID has a tremendous role through the 169WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 170WH

[Jeremy Lefroy] hand in hand with tackling global inequality. We must be mindful of that responsibility in our investments Private Infrastructure Development Group in supporting through CDC and in our other investments. infrastructure in sub-Saharan Africa and elsewhere. The right hon. Member for Gordon also discussed However, CDC could look at more local and smaller the linked matter of ethical investment and the need for scale investments in infrastructure, which would help social outcomes and sustainable economic growth, and not only the SMEs I have spoken about but the agricultural other hon. Members have reinforced those points. sector. Historically, while CDC’s role has been important and I welcome the Government’s response to the report. I has often been positive, it has had a mixed history. This believe that CDC is poised to set off in new areas is a great opportunity for us to look ahead at how it can without losing its expertise and performance in existing play a bigger and more significant role. areas. It is extremely important that the Government should continue to support CDC. The report pointed My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield out that DFID should perhaps take greater interest (Richard Burden) raised the important question of than it has in the past, when CDC has almost been left about 50% of the international development budget to to get on alone. It has done a good job, but if the India being channelled through private sector investments. Secretary of State continues to show the kind of engagement He sought clarification from the Secretary of State and involvement with CDC that he has done, both in whether that figure is accurate and whether that investment his public pronouncements and the response to the will be channelled through CDC or some other route. I report, it will have an excellent future. will appreciate that being clarified in the Secretary of State’s response. 3.24 pm The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): It is a Lucas) raised some important issues about compliance pleasure to speak today from the Labour Front Bench with the spirit and letter of international law and about about CDC. I thank the Chair of the International tax, transparency and money laundering laws, among Development Committee, the right hon. Member for others. She reiterated the role of ethical investment and Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), and the rest of the Committee the need to be mindful of human rights, in particular for their work. It is crucial and vital that CDC should when investing in mining companies and others. Many play its part in promoting investment in developing organisations have expressed concern about the impact countries to promote economic development and poverty that particular kinds of investment can have and the alleviation. need for greater care to ensure that such investments are In 2009 development finance institutions contributed ethical and that human rights violations do not take about $33 billion of new private sector investment in place. developing countries. The contribution made by institutions such as CDC to developing countries has the potential Jeremy Lefroy: Does the hon. Lady agree that we to make an even more significant impact on economic have the opportunity not only to be careful about bad development and poverty alleviation, as part of the practice, rooting it out wherever it occurs, but to promote UK’s continuing work in international development. As good practice with investments made by CDC, whether the right hon. Member for Gordon has pointed out, it is through funds or perhaps in future directly? vital to build on its work and to focus on areas where improvements can be made. With a mandate to boost economic growth by investing in private sector development Rushanara Ali: CDC has an important opportunity and more than £2 billion of planned investment in the to lead by example, and we must require it to set that next five years, there is, as I have said, a great opportunity. example and to implement the focus on human rights, I want to focus on some of the issues raised by right given the interest in human rights in those countries. I hon. and hon. Members in the debate. The right hon. very much accept the hon. Gentleman’s point. Member for Gordon highlighted the importance of I also want to mention what the hon. Member for CDC’s acting as a fund of funds and of the need to Brighton, Pavilion said about CDC acting as a fund of focus on pro-poor development and the connection funds as well as a poverty alleviator. It is important to between investment and development. Economic growth consider compatibility. There are many examples of in its own right will not bring about development if we incompatibility and, as she rightly stated, some bring do not use our investments appropriately, as many hon. into sharp focus the tensions between the two objectives. Members have pointed out. The two are welcome, but greater monitoring is needed to ensure that the objectives do not contradict each Malcolm Bruce: The hon. Lady has made an important other. point. A World Bank report on sub-Saharan Africa will often give an annual figure showing rates of growth that The hon. Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) most of Europe would envy, but it does not show that discussed returns on investment. His insights included the distribution of that wealth is not helping to alleviate recognising the importance of creating the appropriate poverty. Wealth by itself is no use, if it does not get to investment horizons and environments. He raised two the people who need it. key issues on skills: first, on skills and the knowledge base, he pointed out the importance of ensuring that Rushanara Ali: I welcome that comment. As we that capacity and technical expertise is available as the have seen recently, in many middle-income countries, investment takes place in developing countries; and, economic inequality coupled with injustice are a devastating secondly, he indicated the importance of sector focus, in combination and can lead to conflict. Economic particular in agriculture. Several hon. Members mentioned development is vital. Growth is vital, but it must go accountability and transparency. 171WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 172WH

I will wrap up, because I am conscious that I do not Rushanara Ali: I accept that point. If CDC wants to have a huge amount of time. be a trail-blazer and to encourage investment by others, there must be some way of framing its activities to Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair): You have plenty of enable some appropriate risks to be taken. That might time. involve a special innovation fund to identify potential investments, which could recognise that failure rates are Rushanara Ali: I have lots of time, which is good. greater with particular kinds of investments such as In 2010, CDC’s capital was invested in about 143 smaller businesses. funds, supporting 930 individual companies worldwide. Although innovation journeys in business, technology Companies benefiting from CDC investment employ and elsewhere may attract a large amount of investment, almost 1 million people in 70 different countries. As the there are often only a small but significant number of International Development Committee report successes, but they may generate new sectors. There acknowledges, CDC has contributed to employment must be discussion about the level of risk that CDC can and the tax base in developing countries, which are take, and it would be helpful if the Secretary of State critical to development and economic growth. That is, were to reflect on some of those points and tell us however, only part of CDC’s contribution, and other whether particular efforts can be made to recognise notable examples of success can be found in developing that, for example, diaspora and smaller communities infrastructure and technology and in linking those countries have a big role to play in those countries, but that there to the international economy. So CDC has a vital role must be a way of enabling them to invest. The pool of to play in the future in infrastructure development and investors is often smaller. Is there a way of pooling in poverty alleviation, although a number of issues were investments or collaborating to ensure that more targeted raised by the Select Committee report as well as by investment from those groups goes to developing countries? those who submitted evidence and who have campaigned Those matters should be explored. for continued reform of CDC. I want to ask the Secretary of State about ensuring Pauline Latham: Is it not true that diaspora communities the appropriate monitoring of impact, of what happens invest in and send money back to the communities that to the investment and of how development objectives they came from, because they know those communities? are met. I also want to reiterate the points made in the Trying to get another organisation to co-ordinate how debate about investments being ethical, fulfilling human they spend their money might seem to them to be telling rights objectives and not contradicting our overall national them how to spend that money. Would it not be better aims to ensure that our investments are appropriately to leave them to form their own associations to help geared towards economic development as well as poverty their own communities, because they often know many alleviation. people in the area? They are better left to get on with On smaller investments and support to SMEs, as funding in areas that they know and whose needs they hon. Members have mentioned, we must be vigilant in know, instead of giving it to someone else to invest. If ensuring that CDC does not merely replicate what other we are not careful, we might stop them investing at all. investors do but provides added value. It should give support and investment to smaller investors or those Rushanara Ali: Diaspora communities may be interested from diaspora communities. As was acknowledged, such in developing businesses that connect between, for example, communities provide more investment in developing the UK and Pakistan. They may need advice, support countries—their countries of origin—than all development and technical assistance, and they sometimes need access aid put together. CDC has a great opportunity to tap to investment funds to start up a business. There may be into that resource and channel the aid and investment areas where they can do that themselves, but my essential going into those countries to help fulfil economic point is that opportunities are being missed. We do not development and poverty alleviation objectives. want to duplicate or squeeze out direct investments to I will cite one recent example from my constituency. help families, but second and third-generation British A small group of UK Bangladeshi entrepreneurs developed citizens with links to their countries of origin are increasingly a cargo business with their own investment—only a interested in investment in and support for business small amount of money—because they could not get rather than direct support to family members. It is access to resources elsewhere, and it is now a multi-million important that CDC looks at opportunities for such pound business. That is a small but significant example, investment, which is different from the traditional support because those entrepreneurs did not have access to to families and friends because it involves putting money investment from organisations such as CDC and because into businesses in their home country or city, or the area it illustrates the profound interest among diaspora where they come from. communities in investing in their countries of origin to CDC’s business plan, which follows the various reports, develop the economies of the cities that they come including that of the International Development Committee from. Many of their ideas are incredibly innovative, as and the Government response, is welcome, as is the in my example, and have the capacity to promote investment general thrust of its focus on economic development, and connections between the two countries. including its fund-to-fund focus, and on poverty alleviation, but we must look closely at where CDC goes next and Mr Gyimah: I certainly agree with the hon. Lady’s how it implements the overall vision that it has set for comments about focusing on small and medium-sized itself, recognising the many issues that have been raised. enterprises. Given the high failure rate, however, especially Those issues include internal practices and how CDC is among small enterprises, does she agree that if we have perceived by the public. Hon. Members have acknowledged greater focus by CDC on SMEs, we must accept that it that there are still concerns and reputational issues might not have the returns that it has previously achieved? about how CDC is perceived to be using resources, 173WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 174WH

[Rushanara Ali] determined to refocus the development programme so that the aid programme is fuelled by the engine of remuneration packages, pay and so on, and how its development—the private sector. Here, I turn to some money is spent. The public deserve the best value for of the comments made by the hon. Member for money, as well as transparency and accountability, so Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), who is my that our investments create a genuine space for others to hon. Friend in Birmingham, where our constituencies follow. In areas where CDC invests, it creates new are close together. He asked about the 50% figure for opportunities for others to follow, and it acts as a the amount that will be spent through private sector trailblazer and a catalyst. That is the ethos that we all development in India, and for which other countries we want CDC to achieve. We all want it to succeed. were minded to adopt that policy. He also asked me to I again commend the work of the International explain why I saw the private sector as a key means of Development Committee and look forward to seeing development, and we had some exchanges on that when CDC thrive and succeed in increasing investment in I appeared before the Select Committee. developing countries, in helping to reduce inequality I suspect that, although the hon. Gentleman sees through economic growth and in making its contribution intellectually that the private sector is the engine of to reducing poverty. development, he may have residual reservations, and sometimes under the bedclothes late at night he may think that it is perhaps the enemy of development 3.45 pm rather than its engine. The truth is that if one believes The Secretary of State for International Development that the private sector is the engine of development, one (Mr Andrew Mitchell): It is a pleasure to appear under wants to bring to bear all the available skills in the your benign chairmanship, Mr Walker, for the first private sector to try to drive development forward. time. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member Some 90% of the world’s jobs are created not by for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce), who launched this debate Governments but by the private sector. Wealth creation today, and his Committee on its work not only on CDC, and economic growth empower societies and enable which has been enormously helpful to my Department, them to lift their citizens out of poverty. but on a range of other matters to which it brought Richard Burden: I do not know what the bedclothes extraordinary expertise and experience as well as energy, are like in the north of Birmingham, but the Secretary when considering difficult and intractable development of State is searching under the wrong bedclothes in the problems. Secretaries of State do not always agree with south of Birmingham because that was not the question Committees on every issue, and that is true of the I asked. I wanted him to explain the figure of 50%, as International Development Committee and this Secretary opposed to 40%, 60% or 80%. If there is a logic to that of State. However, for the record, it is a pleasure to figure, what is it based on? Does it apply elsewhere, and work with such an expert Committee. The Department if so, on what is that based? and its Ministers draw huge strength from the way in which the Committee goes about its business, and I am Mr Mitchell: As I made clear to the Committee, the extremely grateful to all its members for that. figure of 50% feels right in the context of India. I This has been an excellent debate on many of the key suspect that in many bilateral programmes over the issues that the Government are trying to address in years, there will be an increasing role for the work of the connection with CDC. Let me start by emphasising the private sector as countries move down the path of point that several hon. Members made—that CDC, lifting themselves out of poverty. In Vietnam, for example, given the terms of reference under which it has operated we can see how that engine has driven the alleviation of in recent years, has done an extremely good job. It has poverty. There is no science to the figure of 50%, but it provided an excellent return to taxpayers, and it has feels right in the case of India. As I said when I gave increased substantially the funds under management, evidence to the Committee, it is not an arbitrary target but my submission is that in development terms it is a but an aim. greatly under-utilised asset, and needs to be changed. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, in defending our decision to continue with an aid and development It is fair to say that some years ago, CDC perhaps programme in India, it is important to respond to had too much development DNA in its work, and not public concern. We must explain that, yes, India is enough financial rigour. Indeed—I hope that this does roaring out of poverty, but there are more poor people not cause Labour Members to blush—the then Prime in India than in the whole of sub-Saharan Africa. Seven Minister, Tony Blair, was minded to privatise CDC, but and a half times the total population of the United that did not proceed. The pendulum has now swung to Kingdom live on less than 80p a day, and it is right to the other extent, and it is a very strong, financially walk the last mile with India on development. The aid driven organisation that is not much different from and development programme is important, and makes many other organisations that operate in emerging markets. up part of the rich tapestry of Britain’s relations with It seems to have lost some of its development DNA, India that were so singularly reinvigorated by the Prime and we need to put that back in the centre so that it has Minister’s visit last year. Those relations are important both rigorous financial control DNA, as well as strong and we all—not only people in India but those in development DNA. That is our intention, and I am Britain as well—have a huge amount to gain from pleased that it was strongly endorsed by the Committee Indian prosperity. For that reason, we decided to freeze in its response to our proposals. the programme, focus on work in the poorest states It is worth emphasising the point that was made by and redirect a significant part of the budget—up to the Committee’s chairman, my right hon. Friend the approximately 50% by the end of the next four years—to Member for Gordon, that aid is a means to an end, not pro-poor private sector development. That will create an end in itself. The coalition Government have been the jobs and prosperity that are essential for India. 175WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 176WH

Anas Sarwar: I wholeheartedly agree with the case Mr Mitchell: The hon. Lady is nodding assent, and I that the Secretary of State makes for aid to India, and will write to her on that basis. there was strong cross-party support for the report on The point I seek to make is that by helping the India by the International Development Committee. I world’s poorest people to create wealth and build up want to follow on from the question asked by my hon. their own assets, we will help them to pull themselves Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard out of poverty, and become less reliant on aid and more Burden). The issue is not about whether the private resilient in the face of natural disasters. During her sector has a role to play in development—that is a excellent speech, the hon. Member for Bethnal Green given; the private sector is crucial if we are to develop and Bow (Rushanara Ali) underlined the point that underdeveloped nations. However, if the Department development finance institutions such as CDC should for International Development aims for 50% of its do more to reduce poverty. I completely agree with her. money to be spent in the private sector—as in India, for We need to see the new CDC leading the way and example—what percentage of that money will go through demonstrating how other international financial institutions, CDC? If the Department is making direct investment including the International Finance Corporation, can and not using a third-party organisation such as CDC, set a good example. We are pressing the IFC to do more will that risk the integrity of DFID, which makes in lower-income countries and particularly fragile states, untied, direct grants and investments in a bilateral and to be more demonstrably pro-poor in middle-income sense, rather than direct investments from which it countries. There is no difference of opinion between the looks for a return? Front-Bench spokespeople on that point. At the heart of the approach that we are discussing is Mr Mitchell: I will come directly to that point. CDC a reformed and revitalised CDC that will be a catalyst investments in India will be in addition to the 50% of for change in the most challenging environments where the programme funding that we expect to be spent on the transforming power of successful financial investment pro-poor private sector development over the next four is most needed. In that context, the previous six months years. If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I will come have seen an enormous amount of activity, and if I may, in a moment to some of the other points that he has I will remind the Committee of what the Government raised. have been doing. In October 2010, I informed the House of the Government’s decision to reconfigure Caroline Lucas: I am sorry to delay the Secretary of CDC to boost its development impact, and a public State on this issue, but I want to return to the point consultation was set up as part of that process. In raised by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield March this year, the Committee published its report on (Richard Burden). The Secretary of State said that the CDC. The Government responded on 4 May, welcoming figure of 50% was not arbitrary, but he then said that that report and agreeing with the vast majority of its the criteria were that that figure “feels right”, which recommendations. On 7 June, I reported to the House does sound arbitrary. Will the Secretary of State be that the Government and CDC had agreed on and clearer about the criteria that led to the discussion and published a new high-level business plan. agreement on a figure of 50% for India, and what In his opening remarks, the Chairman of the criteria were used elsewhere? International Development Committee stated how important it was that the Department should not be too Mr Mitchell: At the moment, the target exists only in distant from CDC. He expressed the view that the India. I can only repeat what I said to the hon. Lady: Department had previously seemed distant, although the figure feels right; it is not a science and I am not the two buildings are only about 300 yards apart. I setting an arbitrary target in that sense. It is an aim and completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman, and as long as we move down that course over the next four we are intent on rectifying that within the important years—which I am sure we will—we will see the benefits confines that Ministers and civil servants should not in terms of what is happening in India and of the pick winners or make decisions on individual investments. effectiveness of our programme. They are, however, entitled as the 100% shareholder in I know that the hon. Lady has an urgent constituency CDC to express a clear understanding of the direction matter to attend to and may leave before the end of my in which CDC should be moving. That is what we are speech, so I will address the point she raised. She made doing. a number of detailed comments about the nature of the operation of CDC’s investment in Nigerian companies Malcolm Bruce: I take the Secretary of State’s point against which corruption allegations have been made. I about Ministers, but what about departmental staff and hope that she will forgive me if I draw her attention to CDC staff who work together, particularly in bilateral the fact that some of those matters are before the courts areas? Our experience in the past is that CDC is never and I must therefore be careful about what I say in my mentioned during programmes of visits to other countries. response. I can tell her, however, that the Department I hope that that will not be the case in the future. and CDC take allegations of corruption extremely seriously. We have looked at the allegations in exhaustive detail, Mr Mitchell: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely and I have written in great detail on the matter to the right. We will, I hope, see secondments between the chief executive—I think—of the Jubilee Debt Campaign. Department and CDC in the future, and we are intent I would be happy to share the contents of that on promoting much closer involvement, including at correspondence with the hon. Lady, and if she would country level. When I first visited India, I, too, was like me to do that, she has only to say. struck by the distance between the Department and CDC, although it is fair to say that, such is the quality Caroline Lucas indicated assent. of the staff that we are fortunate enough to have in 177WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 178WH

[Mr Andrew Mitchell] In addition, my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) and the hon. Member for Bethnal India, that is rapidly being rectified. The Chairman of Green and Bow mentioned the position of CDC in the Select Committee will agree that that is a most relation to SMEs. It is worth making it clear that CDC important matter. is already one of the major backers of SME funds, such In the early part of his remarks, the Chairman mentioned as ManoCap and GroFin, and it will do more. Last the importance that the Committee attached to the role November, it committed ¤8 million to a new SME fund of the diaspora and, in particular, to remittancing and based in west Africa. I hope that the hon. Lady will feel related matters. On page 2 of the Government response that the direction of travel in that respect is also a good to the Committee’s report, we make it clear that making one. intelligent and innovative use of that should be something Following the changes, CDC will no longer work that we progress, and we have every intention of doing exclusively through private equity funds managed by that. others and, as I have said, it will offer loans as well as equity financing. It will become more transparent in its I do not want to waste the valuable opportunity dealings, so that taxpayers and the people whom we are presented by today’s debate by repeating the details that trying to help can see where and how the money is being I have already given the House. Instead, I want to spent. It is already publishing more corporate and remind hon. Members of the broad thrust of the changes investment data on its website, and more of its evaluations that we have made to CDC—changes that reflect the will be carried out independently. responses to the consultation and many of the comments made in the Committee. As I mentioned, DFID will work more closely with CDC, not only at country level but at the centre. CDC’s Under its new business plan, CDC will become a business plan will be kept under regular review, and it pioneering investor—the most pro-poor investor in the will report annually to my Department against published world. As members of the Committee made clear, there targets. DFID will not interfere in CDC’s investment have been too many examples of CDC behaving like decisions, for the reasons that I explained, but it can any other emerging market private equity fund. I noticed offer valuable information and expertise from a development that on one occasion CDC was the seventh investor in a perspective. fund, which does not suggest a great deal of pioneering. The issue of remuneration was raised. Pay and bonuses What CDC has that the market does not have is the will be brought down to a level that is fair and appropriate ability to deploy patient capital, which does not require but not excessive. I am pleased to be able to tell members the same returns as are returned by the market. It can of the Select Committee that the CDC Board has take a much longer view. That is one of CDC’s unique already cut bonus levels by 50% this year. selling points, and it is extremely important that it is deployed. Anas Sarwar: I thank the Secretary of State for giving CDC’s focus will be on development impact rather way again; I am sorry to be a nuisance. He rightly than corporate profitability. It will channel all its new mentions that CDC will report every year to the investments into the poorer countries in sub-Saharan Department. Will that process include transparency Africa and Asia, where more than 70% of the world’s about what profits are made, and what taxes are paid, in poorest people live. It will become bolder in its approach each country? to innovation and risk, accepting higher financial risks where those are justified by greater development benefits. Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman, despite his comment, In other words, as I said, it will be a patient investor. is never a nuisance. If he bides his time, I will come directly to the point that he has raised. Anas Sarwar: I agree wholeheartedly with the suggested Once the new chief executive is in place, the Government reforms for CDC. The Secretary of State rightly mentions will decide how to restructure pay. We will ensure that the fact that CDC will have to make more risky investments. the new remuneration framework links performance to If CDC made more risky investments and did not get development results rather than simply profit. I was the returns that it hoped to get, would the Department asked a number of questions about how CDC would be willing to put further funds into CDC to protect it? deliver that new agenda. I expect CDC to start to make rapid progress in a huge number of different directions once the new chief executive is appointed. The head-hunters Mr Mitchell: The hon. Gentleman asks an important charged with finding the person for what I have described— question. We have taken nothing off the table in that accurately, I hope—as one of the most interesting and respect. I will come on to why the time to deal with that exciting jobs anywhere in the financial world have advised point is when the new chief executive has been appointed me that they have been overwhelmed by an incredible and the business plan for CDC under his or her direction response from highly talented people. We all look forward has been set out. to seeing the result of that process. A number of members of the Select Committee In addition, we have already reinforced and strengthened raised the overuse of private equity funds by CDC in the board of CDC, which has managed in the past to the past. However, ManoCap, for example, which is a attract a very high calibre of expertise. Once the new brilliant organisation and fund in Sierra Leone, run by chief executive is appointed, he or she will be able to Tom Cairnes and his colleagues, is highly developmental. take the wider remit that we have agreed with the board Under its new approach, CDC will support pioneering for the work that CDC will carry out in the future and equity investment and will increasingly also deploy ground it with much more detail. He or she will also be other tools, including lending, guarantees and co-investment, able to start to recruit the team who will carry out that but they will be introduced carefully and over time. important activity. 179WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 180WH

We want CDC to become the most successful and the Anas Sarwar: I thank the Secretary of State for giving best development finance institution in the world and to way again. Paragraph 60 of the report recommends that blaze a trail and set an example that others will follow. “CDC should follow standards of best practice. By doing so, As the Chair of the Select Committee said, the organisation CDC could raise standards across all DFIs. The tax payments is extraordinarily attractive both to those who are coming made by CDC’s fund managers and investee companies should be to the latter stages of their business life, who perhaps transparent. They should be published annually on a country-by- have been successful and made a great deal of money country basis.” and want to put something back—they can bring huge Does the Secretary of State broadly agree with that expertise to the work of CDC—and to younger people statement? Will the code that he mentioned include who perhaps do not want to work on a production line other investee companies? in the City of London but want to leave a footprint in the sand and to make their contribution at this time Mr Mitchell: We should wait for the code to be when so much can be done to alleviate poverty—to published, but when the hon. Gentleman sees it he will make their contribution to the workings of CDC and to realise that we are at precisely the same place. I hope the exciting propositions that will undoubtedly come that it will win his approval. forward for them through the work that CDC is doing. The hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow asked Getting together that team, developing the resources me about the monitoring of CDC’s development impact. required by CDC and motivating and leading the team As I indicated earlier, it is important that CDC’s work is one of the key jobs that I hope the new chief executive should be judged by both its development impact and will take forward. its financial returns. No one is in the business of wanting The CDC board has responded willingly and it to support unprofitable enterprises. Monitoring CDC’s constructively to the changes. The reforms answer directly achievements will show why it is of such great importance the criticisms that have been made of CDC and the that it makes a profit, but I hope that the hon. Lady will concerns voiced by the Government and the Select agree that we are becoming better at demonstrating Committee. They make CDC a far more effective tool both aspects. We are pressing hard for CDC to come up in the Government’s development armoury. I need to with proposals on this, and it is being supported with make it clear that quite a significant chunk of CDC’s strong advice from development experts in my Department. capital is locked up in binding legal contracts for a CDC is committed to more than 50% of evaluations of number of years to come, so reform in that respect will its investments being done by independent evaluators. take place over time, but I and the board are committed I have answered my hon. Friend the Member for East to making it happen. Surrey on getting the right skills in CDC, but I would I now pick up on a couple of other points made like to add that we have appointed someone to head during the debate. The Committee Chair and my hon. CDC Innovation, a new CDC team, to consider frontier Friends the Members for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) and pioneering opportunities. However, as I have indicated, for Stafford made important points about CDC’s role in the real momentum on that front will come after the developing agriculture. I completely agree with what appointment of the new CEO. they said. Agriculture is crucial to our efforts. DFID is I hope that I have covered most of the points raised in highly active in supporting agriculture through research this debate. I again acknowledge the important role and development and value change development, and played by the Committee in the development of CDC. in many other ways. I think particularly of the work Its thinking has helped shape CDC’s new business plan, that we are doing with the World Food Programme in and I greatly value the expertise that the Committee has Karamoja in northern Uganda, a food-stressed part of deployed in helping us all to take these developments the world where people have regularly needed support forward to the best possible effect. and food aid; we hope that it will become self-sustaining so that they will not need such aid in future. When investing in agricultural enterprises is the best 4.14 pm way to generate sustainable jobs and income for poor Malcolm Bruce: I thank the Secretary of State for his people, CDC will certainly consider doing so more than full response to the debate and also all hon. Members it has in the past. In many parts of the world, one of the who have participated. I thank my Committee for its best ways of helping people in rural areas is to generate work in producing the report. employment in non-agricultural sectors. Although CDC will consider investing in agriculture, it will also be I do not wish to detain the Chamber, other than to helping to create off-farm enterprises and businesses in wish the Secretary of State well in reforming CDC. On other sectors. behalf of the Committee, we look forward to an early I turn to the important question on transparency meeting with the new chief executive officer, albeit not asked by the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas necessarily formally. The Committee will be anxious to Sarwar). He wanted to know whether the Government have an exchange of views with the new CEO and the would ask CDC to publish data on all countries in executive staff so that we can interact in a mutually which it works. CDC will shortly be publishing a new beneficial way. I hope that the Secretary of State regards disclosure policy. It will be substantially more transparent, that as a perfectly reasonable wish for the Committee. publishing significantly more data on the businesses in CDC has the potential, together with DFID, to become which it invests, on its fund managers, on the impact of one of the most innovative pro-poor investment investment country by country and on taxes paid. If, for opportunities in developing countries. We very much some reason, it cannot disclose the information that look forward to seeing that development. it is asked for—perhaps for reasons of commercial I thank the Secretary of State personally for the confidentiality—it will be incumbent on CDC to energy with which he is driving things forward, for his explain why. vision for maintaining the successes and advantages 181WH Future of CDC14 JULY 2011 Future of CDC 182WH

[Malcolm Bruce] Question put and agreed to. that are built into CDC, and for enabling it to be innovative and flexible in ways that I hope will be of 4.16 pm great benefit to poor people throughout the world. Sitting adjourned. 35WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 36WS

Modernising Customs and Excise Law—a consultation on Written Ministerial modernising the provisions of the Customs and Excise Management Act (CEMA) 1979 and other customs and excise law with a view to simplifying the legislation, closing Statements the tax gap, removing burdens on business and strengthening the UK’s borders. Thursday 14 July 2011 VAT: online registration and online filing of VAT returns—a consultation on the next steps in moving VAT online, and the assistance into digital that will be required in support. TREASURY Digital by Default—a consultation seeking views on making online the Digital by Default channel to register for direct Asset Protection Agency business taxes (income tax self assessment/class 2 NICs, corporation tax, PAYE). The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Hoban): The annual report and accounts 2010-11 of the COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Asset Protection Agency (APA) has been presented to Parliament today. Affordable Homes Programme The report contains commentary on key developments in relation to the APA and the asset protection scheme (APS) over the period from 1 April 2010 to 31 March The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant 2011. Shapps): Further to my written statement of 14 February, Official Report, column 36WS, I am today announcing I am pleased to note the statements in the report that the outcomes of the Homes and Communities Agency’s the likelihood of the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) invitation for proposals for affordable rent under the being able to make a claim under the APS has further Government’s affordable homes programme for 2011-15. receded and that the British taxpayer is therefore expected to make an overall profit of £5 billion from the APS. The affordable homes programme, which I launched Moreover, the amount of covered assets has further on 9 December 2010, was designed to support the reduced from £234 billion at scheme inception to delivery of up to 150,000 new affordable homes through £182 billion at 31 March 2011. a mixture of new investment (some £4.5 billion over the next four years) and greater flexibility for social housing The APA has today also published a legal agreement providers to make the best use of existing and future relating to the APS. This aligns the operation of the assets. The new affordable rent model, which will be the scheme more closely with RBS’s regular “business as principal element of the programme, will make public usual” finance and risk management process. This subsidy go further while enabling local authorities and agreement is in addition to the supplemental agreements providers to target support where it is most needed. on the implied write-down trigger for long-dated assets, revised arrangements for the assessment of APS When I launched the invitation for bids under the performance-related remuneration for relevant RBS staff framework in February, I said that my aspiration was to and a move from annual to quarterly fees, which were deliver more than 150,000 new affordable homes, and outlined in the written ministerial statement laid on challenged the sector to deliver. The response from 15 February 2011. It is expected that this agreement will providers to the invitation for proposals under this increase operational efficiency for RBS and the APA programme has exceeded my original expectations, and leading to reduced costs for both and, by extension, the I now believe that we will be able to deliver up to taxpayer. 170,000 new affordable homes. The programme I am announcing today includes around 80,000 homes for Tax Consultations affordable rent or affordable home ownership, supported by funding of £1.8 billion from the Government. Further details of the programme can be found at: The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David http://www.homesandcommunities.co.uk/affordable- Gauke): Budget 2011 announced a number of tax policy homes changes and longer-term tax reforms that will be subject to consultation. These, and other consultations, are Firebuy Ltd summarised in the tax consultation tracker, which is available on the HM Treasury website at: http://www.hm- treasury.gov.uk/tax_updates.htm. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has today Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): A published the following documents: copy of the annual report and accounts of Firebuy Ltd Working with tax agents: dishonest conduct—a discussion for the financial year 2009-2010 has today been laid document which seeks views on draft legislation which reflects before Parliament. comments received during earlier consultation. As part of a Firebuy Ltd is an Executive non-departmental public wider modernisation of HMRC’s powers, deterrents and body sponsored by the Department for Communities safeguards this document looks at how HMRC interacts and Local Government to help deliver procurement with tax agents to deal with dishonest conduct other than by way of a criminal investigation. efficiencies for the fire and rescue service in England HMRC will publish the following remaining consultations through nationally negotiated framework contracts with before the end of July: suppliers. It also has a range of contract management and technical functions. Civil Investigation of Fraud - Contractual Disclosure Facility—a discussion document which explores one option for toughening It was announced on 14 October 2010 that Firebuy and tightening HMRC’s approach to civil investigation of would be closing in 2011 as part of Government’s fraud through the concept of a contractual disclosure facility. review of arm’s length bodies. 37WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 38WS

Building Stock overseas competitors benefit from access to the market in Great Britain without bearing a fair share of the costs of regulation, or of research, education and treatment The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for of problem gambling. Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): I am pleased to announce that I am today laying before I am proposing that the Gambling Act should be Parliament the third report required under the provisions amended so that remote gambling is regulated on a of the Sustainable and Secure Buildings Act 2004. point of consumption basis, so that all operators selling into the British market, whether from here or abroad, The report considers the progress towards the will be required to hold a Gambling Commission licence sustainability of the building stock in England and to enable them to transact with British consumers and Wales in the preceding two years. It reports on changes to advertise in Great Britain. made to building regulations over the period and their expected impact, plans for future legislation, and proposals As I intend to allow operators anywhere in the world for the setting of targets in relation to sustainable to apply for a Gambling Commission licence, my proposals buildings. The report also covers changes in the energy will mean that the white list will be phased out, although and carbon efficiency of the building stock, the extent the Gambling Commission will ensure that regulatory to which buildings have their own facilities for generating good practice is recognised so that overseas-based businesses energy, and the recycling and reuse of construction in trusted jurisdictions such as the white-listed countries, materials over the period. will have much lighter touch approach and, for example, will not have to duplicate regulatory work. During the period covered by the report, one of the key legislative changes was the introduction of improved To ensure the minimum disruption for operators in energy efficiency requirements to the building regulations the British market, I intend to put in place a period of and the publication of updated practical and technical transition which will see operators already licensed in guidance with respect to these requirements in October EEA member states and the existing white-listed 2010. The new Government have also initiated a programme jurisdictions entitled to or eligible for an automatic of work looking at potential deregulatory changes to transitional licence to prevent them having to cease the building regulations to be introduced in 2013. It trading. also includes work to deliver the Government’s commitment These proposals are an important measure to help to further increase energy efficiency through part L address concerns about problem gambling and to bridge (conservation of fuel and power), delivering the next a regulatory gap, by ensuring that British consumers steps to zero carbon for homes and non-domestic buildings, will enjoy consistent standards of protection, no matter and will consider the wider policy for the retrofit of which online gambling site they visit. For example, existing buildings. previous work by the Gambling Commission has The report also notes this Government’s commitment highlighted deficiencies in some remote operators’ to zero-carbon new homes from 2016 and their arrangements for preventing under-age play, and, for announcement as part of the growth review that the the first time, overseas operators will be required to 2016 standard would require a 100% reduction of emissions inform the UK regulator about suspicious betting patterns from energy use covered by the building regulations. to help fight illegal activity and corruption in sports The report highlights the progress in the last two years betting. in the energy efficiency of dwellings, including heating These reforms will ensure consistency and a level and insulation measures, as well as providing data on playing field as all overseas operators will be subject to the first year of the Government’s feed-in tariff scheme the same regulatory standards and requirements as which aims to encourage deployment of additional British-based operators. small-scale low-carbon electricity generation. The Government will work with the Gambling Improving the sustainability of the country’s building Commission and other stakeholders to develop the stock is critical to tackling climate change. The Climate detailed arrangements for the new licensing system Change Committee’s recent third annual report reminds which will require changes to primary legislation. us of the size and nature of the challenge. Building Horserace Totalisator Board regulations have a vital role. The work described in the report which I am publishing today describes the progress The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, which has been made, but we need to take this further, Olympics, Media and Sport (John Penrose): In my ministerial and I expect to return to the House with further proposals written statement to the House on 7 June, Official in the coming months. Report, columns 6-7WS, I announced that the Government have reached a legally binding agreement with Lightcatch CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Ltd, the parent company of BetFred, for the sale of the Tote. The Government are now able to announce that Remote Gambling the sale was completed yesterday. The Government would like to place on record their gratitude to the board and staff of the Tote, past and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, present, for their stewardship of the Tote, and to wish Olympics, Media and Sport (John Penrose): British the combined businesses of BetFred and the Tote a consumers face different consumer protection arrangements successful future. and have to deal with myriad different regulators and The Government will now enter into detailed discussions languages depending on where the gambling they are with representatives of the racing industry on the design taking part in is regulated. This problem is growing as of a scheme for disbursing its share of the net proceeds more countries permit online gambling. At the same of sale in a manner which complies with EU state aid time, it is unfair to GB-licensed gambling operators that rules. 39WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 40WS

DEFENCE ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS

Defence Vetting Agency DEFRA Agency (Annual Report and Accounts) The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan): Key priorities have been set for The Minister of State, Department for Environment, the chief executive of the Defence Vetting Agency (DVA) Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice): The 2010-11 for financial year 2011-12 to deliver national security annual report and accounts for the Food and Environment vetting and related services for Defence personnel and Research Agency was laid before Parliament on 13 July. for contractors working for the Ministry of Defence. Vetting for its repayment customers across Government will be delivered against standards set in individual Hazardous Waste (National Policy Statement) joint business agreements with the agency. Following Defence reform, it is likely that vetting The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and services will be provided under a new business model Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): The Planning from 2012, and I expect the DVA to be disestablished as Act 2008 provides for national policy statements (NPSs) a next steps agency from April 2012. The following key that set out Government policy for particular types of priorities are for its final year of operation. They also development. It requires the draft NPSs to be publicised, reflect the introduction in March 2011 of a major new consulted on, and laid in Parliament with the intention vetting management and information system (Cerberus). of enabling public and parliamentary debate to take As is common in such substantial transition programmes, place. short-term operating difficulties have been encountered. Public consultation on the hazardous waste NPS for These are, however, being resolved, and the expected England started today, 14 July, lasting for 14 weeks. At benefits should be delivered within the period covered the same time I have laid it before Parliament for a by the key priorities. period of scrutiny (the “relevant period”) ending 20 January Maintaining quality 2012. Key priority 1: External validation of quality of defence The hazardous waste NPS sets out our need for vetting cases. hazardous waste infrastructure to enable hazardous To achieve at least a 98% satisfaction rating with 200 waste to be managed in a way that safeguards human cases independently selected and reviewed from a random sample of security cleared (SC) and developed vetting (DV) health and protects the environment. Although we are cases completed in the preceding 12-month period. taking steps to minimise the production of all waste, Key priority 2: Delivering excellent customer service to there will remain for the foreseeable future processes all our customers. that will produce hazardous waste and products that contain hazardous substances and which will need to be To maintain customer service excellence accreditation. managed as hazardous waste when discarded. Hazardous Restoring service delivery waste arisings remain significant with around 4.8 million Key priority 3: For all routine defence cases received after tonnes arising in 2008 and are expected to rise further in 1 January: future years as improvements in waste management a. 85% of counter-terrorism checks (CTCs) to be completed such as producer responsibility schemes and European within 25 calendar days, changes to the definition of hazardous waste take effect (improved from 30 days); and require the management of more waste streams b. 85% of SCs to be completed within 25 calendar days, separately as hazardous waste. It is important that we (improved from 30 days); have sufficient infrastructure both to manage this waste c. 85% of DVs to be completed within 95 calendar days, (improved from 100 days). in an environmentally sound manner and to move the management of hazardous waste up the waste hierarchy Key priority 4: For all defence priority cases received so that we maximise the amounts recycled and recovered after 1 October: and minimise amounts sent for disposal. a. 95% of CTCs and SCs to be completed within 10 calendar days, (no change); We look to the market to provide the facilities. The b. 95% of DVs completed within 30 calendar days .(no national policy statement for hazardous waste does not change). make proposals, therefore, for any specific developments. Key priority 5: Completing defence aftercare cases received However, it sets out the types of nationally significant or scheduled for action after 1 October: infrastructure required and sets a policy framework to a. Take into action all aftercare incident reports (AIRs) guide the determination of applications for development within seven calendar days of receipt, (no change); consent. b. Take into action 95% of scheduled aftercare within 30 The hazardous waste NPS is available on the calendar days of the scheduled date of review, (no change) DEFRA website at www.defra.gov.uk/consult/2011/07/ c. Taking into action (where appropriate) 95% of security 14/hazardous-waste/. appraisal reviews within 21 days of receipt, (no change). The above timeliness targets represent net performance that excludes delays outside of the DVA’s control. Agency Key Business Outcomes Business Improvement Key priority 6: Business transformation The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and By 30 September 2011 produce a transition plan to Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): The Animal implement the move to the Defence Business Support Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA) Organisation during autumn 2011, and remove agency will work to the following key business outcomes for status by 31 March 2012 (new). 2011-12: 41WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 42WS

Value for money (Operational efficiency and value for Science excellence money) Demonstrated by: Demonstrated by: Numbers of published papers and media references. Meeting the financial performance target by the end of financial year 2011-12. Level of customer satisfaction in scientific quality of work. Delivering savings in line with the CSR settlement in 2011-12 Delivery of ongoing investment in new science and capabilities. and producing plans to achieve savings required in later Employee engagement years. Implementing and harmonising clear SLAs with all customers Demonstrated by: to reflect their priorities. The relative performance in the annual staff survey compared Driving sustainability through carbon reduction and water to cross civil service scores. usage reduction. Delivery of specific actions including sickness absence Customers (Customer satisfaction) improvement. Demonstrated by: Social Responsibility Striving to maintain and develop excellent relationships with the devolved Administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Demonstrated by: Ireland, and with the new Animal Health and Welfare Board Delivery of H&S key performance indicators. for England once it is established. Maintenance of OSHAS18001 and ISO14001 accreditations. Designing and implementing a customer insight programme— this will provide the baseline from which, in consultation Delivery of sustainability priorities concerning wastewater with customer groups, an improvement plan will be driven discharge, increasing volunteering and reduced car travel on for key segments. business. Capability, resilience and outbreak management Further details are given in the CEFAS business plan Demonstrated by: for 2011-12, a copy of which has been placed on the As far as possible safeguarding resilience in the face of CEFAS website. reducing funding levels and continuously working to improve The Veterinary Medicines Directorate (VMD) will outbreak management through learning from the structured work to the following key business outcomes for 2011-12: programme of exercises (focusing in 2011-12 on arrangements for resource sharing across Great Britain in the light of the Value for Money devolution of budgets). Demonstrated by: Developing a scanning and surveillance model which will Achieving cost recovery and demonstrating progress in the optimise investment (in staff, estate and technology) and three elements of value-for-money (economy, efficiency and maximise the use of external providers and the farming effectiveness). industry to deliver the greatest benefit in the prediction of new and recurring threats. Customers Implementing release six of the business reform programme Demonstrated by: to deliver efficiency savings and capability enhancements, ensuring that resilience is protected. Ensuring that at least 80% of customers in the veterinary pharmaceutical industry consider the level of service provided Bovine tuberculosis by the VMD to be good or excellent and that the VMD act Demonstrated by: on areas identified requiring improvement within the confines Pulling together the joined capabilities on research, evidence of the available resources. generation, analysis and delivery to offer innovative options Policy customers in DEFRA and 0ther Government to policy and industry customers, to support the delivery of Departments considering the level of service provided by the TB eradication programmes for England and Wales, and the VMD to be satisfactory. risk-based testing approach for Scotland. Operations/Policy Delivery Further details are given in the AHVLA business plan for 2011-12 a copy of which has been placed on the Demonstrated by: AHVLA website. Authorising veterinary medicinal products according to legislative The Centre For Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture requirements and their ongoing benefit: risk assessment Science (CEFAS) will work to the following key business remaining positive through taking proportionate action on outcomes for 2011-12. These are demonstrated through quality, safety and efficacy as necessary. a combination of detailed metrics and actions summarised Providing evidence of actions that encourage the responsible, as: safe and effective use of veterinary medicinal products according to the legislative requirements through proportionate surveillance Value for money (Finance) and inspection activities—and where necessary using enforcement Demonstrated by: action to detect and deter illegal use. Delivering full cost recovery. Ensuring UK policy principles influence EU legislative change, Delivery of sound financial management and governance. further the principles of market harmonisation and the Successful widening of CEFAS’ customer base and growth development of efficient and effective procedures and guidance of non DEFRA income. within the European Medicines Regulatory Network. Delivery of tangible effectiveness gains. Capacity and Capability Customers (Customer satisfaction) Demonstrated by: Demonstrated by: Ensuring the VMD utilises its funding streams efficiently to Levels of customer satisfaction for each project. maintain capability and capacity to deliver its business objectives CEFAS impacts: Progress against the four priority DEFRA and is fit for purpose. customer impact areas (CFP reform, marine planning and licensing, evidence needs for marine strategy framework Further details are given in the VMD business plan directive and enhancing the sustainable contribution offish for 2011-12 to 2014-15, a copy of which has been placed and shellfish to UK food security). on the VMD website. 43WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 44WS

The Food and Environment Research Agency (Fera) Further details are given in the interim RPA business will work to the following key business outcomes for plan for 2011-12, a copy of which has been placed on 2011-12: the RPA website. That plan, including objectives and Value for money (financial performance) indicators will be reviewed and updated when a longer-term strategic plan is implemented in late summer. Demonstrated by: Meeting agreed financial performance, service delivery and Copies of the business plans will be placed in the efficiency targets. Libraries of the House. Customers (Customer focus) Demonstrated by: Veterinary Residues Committee Delivering the outcomes detailed in the DEFRA/Fera SLA through the provision of independent and impartial advice. Performance The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Demonstrated by: Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice): On 14 October 2010, the Government announced the outcome of their Delivering effective and efficient plant health, bee health and review of non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs). PVS policy services and outcomes. This reported that the majority of DEFRA’s scientific Science Capability and Incident Response and technical advisory bodies were to be abolished and Demonstrated by: reconstituted as expert scientific committees to provide Providing a robust food and environmental research, response advice on specific areas. As part of implementing and recovery capability that supports Fera’s, DEFRA’s and these reforms, the Veterinary Residues Committee (VRC), wider Government requirements. which is a non-statutory advisory NDPB, will be Leadership reconstituted as an expert scientific committee on 14 July 2011. Demonstrated by: The VRC will continue to support DEFRA, the Developing and maintaining a culture of ownership and devolved Administrations and the Food Standards Agency accountability that values everyone for their contribution. on the scope and operation of surveillance for residues Embedding Sustainability and Support for the Big Society of veterinary medicines in food and the significance to Demonstrated by: consumers of any residues detected. Driving value by maximising the exploitation of our assets The committee’s membership and new terms of reference and embedding the principles of sustainability further into can be found on the VRC’s website: www.vmd.gov.uk/vrc. our business operations. Further details are given in the Fera business plan for 2011-12, a copy of which has been placed on the Fera website. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE The Rural Payments Agency will work to the following interim key business outcomes for 2011-12: Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council Value for money (Effectively delivering accurate and timely payments) Demonstrated by: The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): The Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council The single payment scheme fund being paid, in an accurate and cost-effective manner, between 1 December 2011 and will meet in Brussels on 18 July. My right hon. Friend 30 June 2012. the Foreign Secretary will attend the Foreign Affairs Council. I will attend the General Affairs Council. (i) SPS 2011 payments by value to customers in regulatory window (> 95.238% by 30 June 2012). FOREIGN AFFAIRS COUNCIL (FAC) (ii) Additional indicators to be available after the delivery of Initiatives in the area of the EU’s Common Security and the RPA strategic improvement plan. Defence Policy (CSDP) To process and pay valid claims for trader schemes and rural We expect Baroness Ashton to present a report on development implementation schemes. CSDP which will be used as the basis for a discussion by (i) 90% within Ministerial guidelines (28 days). Ministers. This follows an interim report which was (ii) 99% within set EU Commission deadlines or in their presented to Defence Ministers at a FAC on 23 May. We absence 60 days of receipt of the claim. are keen to support any initiatives that ensure the EU Customers (Putting customers at the heart of Agency and NATO complement each other better. More generally, delivery) we will encourage the continued development of European civilian and military capabilities, and improvement to Demonstrated by: the co-ordination between EU civilian and military Demonstrating strong commitment to focus on customers planning structures to help achieve a more joined up by delivering a clear set of customer service standards for the approach to crisis management. But we are opposed to end of August 2011. the creation of any new institutions. Delivering operational excellence Southern Neighbourhood (Syria/Lebanon/Libya) Demonstrated by: On Syria, we expect the Council to agree conclusions Minimising the risk of disallowance and make payments which will keep up the pressure on the Syrian regime to accurate to within materiality for all subsidy schemes under end the violence engage in meaningful reforms and take RPA’s direct management with current indicative levels. forward a genuine and inclusive national dialogue. 45WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 46WS

We also expect conclusions on Lebanon which, while GENERAL AFFAIRS COUNCIL (GAC) we recognise the complex challenges of the country’s Multiannual Financial Framework internal political structure, make clear our expectations The European Commission will present their proposals that the new Government uphold their international for the EU budget multiannual financial framework obligations, particularly by committing to co-operate 2014-2020. The proposals can be found at: http:// with the Special Tribunal for Lebanon. ec.europa.eu/budget/index_en.cfm. And on Libya, we expect EU Ministers to take their This could be the opportunity to remind the Commission lead on the discussion at the contact group meeting due of the joint letter to the President of the European to be held on 15 July. We may also take the opportunity Commission signed by the Prime Minister and leaders to remind Ministers of the need to push ahead with from Germany, France, the Netherlands and Finland in implementation of the ambitious new approach to the December 2011. This letter can be found at: region set out in the new European neighbourhood http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/statements-and- policy endorsed by the European Council and the FAC articles/2010/12/letter-to-president-of-european- in June. commission-58224. Climate Change and Security Reform of the Statue of the European Court of Justice Following a joint request by the Foreign Secretary The Court of Justice of the European Union has and his German counterpart, Dr Westerwelle, that the submitted a number of proposals for reform to improve FAC discuss climate change in the light of the urgent its efficiency and, in particular, to clear the significant and serious threat it poses to growth and security. backlog of cases in the General Court (GC). The GC is Foreign Ministers will have the opportunity to consider important because it has jurisdiction to hear at first the respective roles they, the High Representative, the instance competition and trademark cases that are vital European External Action Service (EEAS) and National to the functioning of the single market. The key proposal Diplomatic Services can play in responding to climate is to increase the number of judges in the GC by 12, change. Our view is that there is a need for greater from 27 to 39, at a cost of an additional ¤13.6 million a emphasis on this in both member states’ and the EEAS’s year. While we support reform, we will have to take approaches to foreign policy. We also expect the adoption account of the need to deliver real budgetary restraint of formal conclusions. at EU-level. Middle East Peace Process (MEPP) Presentation of the Presidency’s Programme Ministers will be given a presentation by the Polish The 18 July FAC will receive a report from Baroness presidency on their main priorities for the next six Ashton on the 11 July quartet meeting. We expect months. More information on the Polish presidency can Ministers will want to support quartet efforts to get the be found at: http://pl2011.eu/en. Israelis and Palestinians back into direct talks. There is also likely to be a discussion of how the EU should June European Council respond to proposals for a UN vote on Palestinian Ministers will discuss follow-up to the June European statehood in September. Council, which covered migration, economic policy, north Africa and the middle east. Following the Council, Pakistan the Prime Minister reported the outcomes to the House We welcome the opportunity to discuss Pakistan. We in his statement on the want to emphasise Pakistan’s strategic importance to “Statement on the European Council”. the EU, and the need to re-energise the EU-Pakistan The statement can be found at the following link: relationship. We would like conclusions which include http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/latest-news/2011/ commitments that will lead to a broader and deeper 06/statement-on-european-council-meeting-2-65137 relationship and set the framework for a third EU-Pakistan summit. The conclusions of the June European Council meeting can be found at: http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/ Afghanistan en/11/st00/st00023.en11.pdf. Discussion on Afghanistan is likely to cover a wide range of issues including security transition, the EU’s Malawi (Bilateral Relations) long-term engagement with Afghanistan, and the EU police mission (EU POL). We will encourage a focused The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth discussion, emphasising the importance of the EU’s Affairs (Mr William Hague): I would like to update the commitment to Afghanistan post-2014 and urging progress House on the outcome of the review of the UK’s on key areas of the EU’s expertise such as governance relations with Malawi which I announced in a written and capacity building. statement on 28 April 2011, Official Report, column 13WS. Strategic Partners This followed Malawi’s unwarranted decision to expel If there is time. Ministers may consider the EU’s our High Commissioner. relations with its strategic partners. They would focus in I told the House on that occasion, the FCO had particular on Brazil and South Africa (given forthcoming already instructed Malawi’s acting high commissioner EU summits with those countries in October and September in London to leave, which she did. Her invitation to respectively). They may also cover China, Russia and attend the royal wedding was also rescinded. the US, following Baroness Ashton’s work last year to The review covered the full range of the UK’s relations define EU priorities with those countries. We are keen with Malawi, including migration, defence relations, that the EU identifies concrete goals, preferably using and educational and cultural relations. This review has its trade levers, with each country. And that the EU been undertaken in close consultation with the Secretary places an equally high priority on its relations with of State for International Development as it also covered India. development assistance. Aid from all donors accounts 47WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 48WS for one-third of the Malawian Government’s budget; During a discussion on e-health. Member states outlined the UK is one of the largest bilateral donors. The review development at a national level and considered work at also took into account the very significant links between EU level. Scotland and Malawi, which are an integral part of the Finally, Sweden raised the issue of the environmental overall relationship. The overriding principle in conducting impact of pharmaceutical production in third countries. this review was to demonstrate the serious consequences This attracted support from several member states, which we told Malawi would come from a decision to including the UK. expel the British high commissioner, without letting the Malawian people suffer for the actions of their Government. Our position remains that, while formal diplomatic relations continue to exist between the UK and Malawi, HEALTH the UK will not appoint a new high commissioner to Malawi for the time being; nor will we accept a new ″Healthy Lives, Healthy People″ high commissioner from Malawi to the UK. We have also taken certain measures concerning our visa service for senior Malawian visitors to the UK. The The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): present visa arrangements for all other Malawian citizens Today I am laying before Parliament “Healthy Lives, however are unaffected. Healthy People: Update and way forward” (Cm 8132), The review also considered the UK’s relations with which sets out the progress we have made in developing Malawi in the context of the various international our vision for public health, and a timeline for completing organisations to which we both belong—particularly the operational design of this work through a series of the Commonwealth—as well as of Malawi’s relations public health system reform updates. with the European Union. The UK will not be supporting The White Paper “Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Malawian candidates for elections to international Our Strategy for public health in England” (Cm7985), organisations of which the UK is a member for the time described a new era for public health, with a higher being. priority and dedicated resources. It set out that local On the issue of UK aid to Malawi, my right hon. authorities would take new responsibilities for public Friend the International Development Secretary has health, tackling the wider determinants of health, supported decided to halt all general budget support until progress by a ring-fenced budget, with directors of public health has been made in economic management, but to continue leading on this work locally. A new integrated public the programmes which protect Malawi’s many poor health service, Public Health England, would bring people. together in one body the diverse range of public health expertise to provide public health advice and support at all levels of the system. HEALTH The White Paper generated real enthusiasm for a new approach to public health. We want to maintain this Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer momentum, and by setting out progress to date, and Affairs Council clear next steps, we aim to reduce uncertainty and encourage local authorities and public health professionals to continue to plan and build the local relationships and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health partnerships that will be key to implementing the new (Anne Milton): EU Health Ministers met in Sopot, public health system. Poland for an informal meeting of the Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council on This policy statement sets out how we expect the 5 and 6 July. I represented the UK. reformed public health system to work and the progress we have made in a number of areas, including the role There was a discussion on the prevention and treatment and functions of Public Health England as an executive of communication disorders among children. Member agency. It sets out greater clarity about the role of the states stressed the importance of improving access to Director of Public Health within local government, screening for communication disorders and early including how public health advice will be provided to intervention. help inform NHS commissioning. It provides an update The presidency presented an item on organ donation, in relation to commissioning routes for public health which focused on sharing of best practice to improve funded activity and provides greater clarity around donation rates across the EU. roles and responsibilities for preparedness, resilience The presidency highlighted the risks presented by the and response to health protection incidents and emergencies. growing availability of “designer drugs”. Member states It also indicates the functions we plan to mandate of encouraged the sharing of information to help address local authorities, and what general conditions we intend the issue. to place on the ring-fence grant. Member states received an update on the recent E.coli The high-quality of consultation responses received outbreak in Germany and France and the measures put also helped us to identify where we need to do further forward by the European Commission to control the work to address concerns raised around a number of marketing of seeds from Egypt. policy and implementation issues. We will continue In a discussion on health determinants, diet and to engage with key stakeholders to ensure that by physical activity.Member states emphasised the importance the autumn we have developed credible policy and of addressing inequalities between and within member implementation solutions for those issues which need states, through a range of mechanisms including social, further development. We will produce a series of public economic and behavioural change. health system reform updates to complete the operational 49WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 50WS design of the public health system including on: the The implementation of the first DATV regime helped public health outcomes framework; the Public Health to export the UK border and allowed us to run England Operating Model, public health in local comprehensive checks on those transiting the UK. Since government and the role of the Director of Public the original introduction of the DATV there has been a Health; public health funding; and a workforce strategy. noticeable fall in transit passengers destroying their Copies of “Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Update travel documents before claiming asylum. And where and way forward” are available to hon. Members from they do, the information we have collected as part of the the Vote Office and to noble Lords from the Printed application process (including biometrics) makes identifying Paper Office. and re-documenting them simpler. The document is also available at: Since the introduction of the DATV regime a number www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/ of countries have been added to the list of those required Healthyliveshealthypeople/index.htm to obtain clearance before transiting the UK. This has been done in response to emerging counter-terrorism threats to the UK. We are already committed to reviewing HOME DEPARTMENT the whole DATV regime when we conduct the next visa Code of Practice (Examining Officers) waiver test. Recent events have highlighted Yemen as being of real and pressing concern to the international community. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the It was in Yemen that the Detroit bomber received his Home Department (James Brokenshire): I am today training and it was the source of the bombs disguised as issuing a Home Office circular to all chief constables toner cartridges in cargo aircraft last October. We feel advising them that the code of practice for examining that imposing a DATV regime on those Yemeni citizens officers introduced by order SI NO 2009/1593, following who are transiting the UK is a sensible and proportionate resolutions of both Houses, contains a factual inaccuracy response to the threat. in the TACT2 (Notice of Detention) form included as annex B. The Criminal Defence Service (General) (No.2) Independent Police Complaints Commission (Amendment) Regulations 2002 (SI NO 712 2002) provide that the Legal Services Commission shall fund advice and assistance as it considers appropriate in relation to The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Nick any person detained under schedule 7 to the Terrorism Herbert): I am pleased to announce that today my hon. Act 2000. This was not reflected in the TACT2 form Friend the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury and I included in the code of practice. The Home Office are publishing the annual report of the Independent circular provides a revised form, which examining officers Police Complaints Commission (IPCC). Copies of the are required to use. This advises those detained under report have been laid before the House and will be schedule 7 that they may consult with a solicitor and available in the Vote Office. that this may be at public expense (subject to the This is the seventh annual report from the IPCC. The normal requirements of merit and means testing). We report covers the work of the IPCC during 2010-2011 will lay a draft revised code of practice before Parliament and includes a discrete chapter on the discharge of their in due course. responsibilities in respect of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Criminal Records Bureau (Annual Report and Accounts)

JUSTICE The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Lynne Featherstone): I am pleased Office for Judicial Complaints to announce that the 2010-11 annual report and accounts for the Criminal Records Bureau is being laid before the House today and published on the CRB website. Copies The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice will be available in the Vote Office. (Mr Kenneth Clarke): With the agreement of the Lord Chief Justice, I will today publish the annual report of Direct Airside Transit Regime (Yemen) the Office for Judicial Complaints (OJC). The OJC provides support to the Lord Chief Justice and myself The Secretary of State for the Home Department in our joint responsibility for the system of judicial (Mrs Theresa May): Today my right hon. Friend the complaints and discipline. Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth This report is the fifth published by the OJC, and Affairs and I have written to the Government of the marks the end of a year which has seen the OJC Republic of Yemen announcing that on 14 July 2011 we transition from an arm’s-length body, sponsored by the will be imposing a Direct Airside Transit Visa (DATV) Ministry of Justice, to become a part of the Judicial regime on Yemeni citizens who wish to transit at a UK Office, which supports the Lord Chief Justice and senior airport. judiciary in discharging their responsibilities. Britain is a major hub for transit passengers travelling While now a part of the Judicial Office, the OJC on long-haul flights. Since 2003 we have required certain retains both its operational and decision-making nationalities to obtain a visa (DATV) before they travel independence and continues to report to both myself even if they are arriving at and leaving from the same and the Lord Chief Justice on matters relating to judicial airport. This was introduced as an immigration tool to conduct and discipline. I am confident that this arrangement prevent people destroying their documents before claiming will realise significant administrative and organisational asylum (possibly using a false identity or nationality) savings while protecting the independence of the on arrival at a UK airport. investigatory and disciplinary process. 51WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 52WS

I am pleased to note that the OJC continues to deliver The Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010, an effective complaint-handling service to all of its which achieved Royal Assent in April 2010, conferred customers, which is both transparent and efficient; powers on the Independent Parliamentary Standards processing over 1,600 complaints and 800 inquiries in Authority (IPSA) to determine hon. Members’ salary the last year. None the less, it is always possible to seek and pensions, independently of the House. The independent further efficiencies and improvements and to that end determination and administration of these matters is a the Lord Chief Justice and I have agreed that the OJC crucial part of the process of restoring trust in Parliament, should conduct a thorough review of the Judicial Discipline and any decision to defer the move to independence will (Prescribed Procedures) Regulations to identify any areas result in MPs continuing to determine their own where the disciplinary process may be improved or remuneration, which the House has firmly rejected. streamlined. That review is ongoing and the OJC will be Additionally, the Independent Public Service Pensions consulting key stakeholders and inviting submissions Commission, chaired by Lord Hutton of Furness, was from interested parties before providing both the Lord established in June 2010, and published its Final Report Chief Justice and myself with recommendations in 2012. on 10 March 2011. We have consistently made clear that Copies of the report are available in the Libraries of parliamentary pensions must be reformed in the light of both Houses, the Vote Office and the Printed Paper Office. the Commission’s findings and subsequent application Copies of the report are also available on the internet at to other public service schemes. There is no case for http://www.judicialcomplaints.gov.uk/publications/ MPs being treated differently from other public servants publications.htm. on this issue. As the next step, I will table a motion before the Justice’s of the Peace Act 1949 (Compensation) House rises for the summer recess. This will invite the Regulations House to support the approach to public service pension reform set out in the Final Report of the Independent Public Service Pensions Commission. The motion will The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice propose that IPSA should introduce a new pension (Mr Kenneth Clarke): I am announcing today that I scheme for MPs by 2015, informed by the Commission’s have approved a recommendation by Her Majesty’s findings, and their subsequent application to other public Courts and Tribunals Service that the Justice of the service pension schemes. In recognising the case for an Peace Act 1949 (Compensation) Regulations as amended increase in pensions contributions made in Lord Hutton’s (known as “Crombie” regulations) are to be revoked by interim report, the motion will invite IPSA to increase a statutory instrument that will be laid before Parliament contribution rates for hon. Members from 1 April 2012 on the 14 July 2011. in line with changes in pension contribution rates for Under arrangements dating back to 1949 justices’ other public service schemes. clerks and their assistants are currently entitled to receive The motion, which will be debated, will also reassert higher compensation than other civil servants—in certain the importance of independent determination of MPs’ circumstances—for loss of office, resettlement and remuneration. Subsequently, I will commence the relevant retirement. We have a duty to ensure that we get value sections of the Constitutional Reform and Governance for taxpayers’ money and following consultation the Act 2010, transferring all future responsibility for MPs’ Ministry of Justice has decided to revoke this entitlement. pensions to IPSA. All civil servants, including justices’ clerks and their This approach is similar to the one followed for MPs’ assistants will continue to benefit from the protection of pay, where the House resolved to freeze pay, before the the civil service compensation scheme. relevant commencement order transferred responsibility Copies of the response to consultation on the proposal to IPSA. to revoke the “Crombie” regulations have been placed Once responsibility for MPs’ pensions has been in the Libraries of both Houses. transferred to IPSA, MPs will have finally relinquished the power to set the terms of their own remuneration. LEADER OF THE HOUSE Given the failure of self-regulation, which so damaged Parliament’s reputation, this represents a significant Members’ Pensions step in drawing a line under the problems of the past and rebuilding public confidence. The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young): I am today announcing the next step in the TRANSPORT Government’s approach to MPs’ pensions. Aviation Security On 26 July 2010, I issued a written ministerial statement (Official Report, column 70WS) on the publication of the Senior Salaries Review Body’s (SSRB) fundamental The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip review of parliamentary pensions. This statement also Hammond): Today I am launching a consultation on the set out our longer-term approach to the reform of MPs’ Government’s proposals to modernise the way we regulate pensions, including our expectation that the current aviation security. Better regulation for aviation security final salary terms of the scheme would end. The SSRB proposes a new outcome focused, risk-based approach report was a thoughtful and welcome consideration of to regulation which builds on the successful and similar the pension arrangements for Members of Parliament. approach to aviation safety. However, as recognised at the time, there had been While the UK is recognised internationally as having several developments in the area that could not be one of the most effective aviation security regimes in the ignored in reaching a sustainable conclusion on the world, we also face a continuing threat from international issue. and domestic terrorism. The Government’s recent strategic 53WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 54WS defence and security review set out its proposals for Coastguard Modernisation securing Britain in an age of uncertainty and included a commitment to improve aviation security. The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip The proposals in this consultation offer a new approach Hammond): I will be making an oral statement later to the regulation of aviation security. Our current system today, following the Leader of the House’s business can place significant financial burdens on the aviation question. industry along with inconvenience to passengers, and could be more consistent with the Government’s better Humber Bridge (Debts) Order 2011 regulation principles. I think we can do better—with a new regime that maintains and improves security standards but in a more efficient and passenger-friendly way. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport I therefore propose that the Government should move (Norman Baker): I am pleased to announce that I have from prescribing security processes to setting security today laid the Humber Bridge (Debts) Order.2011 before outcomes. This will give airports and airlines greater Parliament. flexibility to deliver high standards of security in ways The order provides for the interest rate payable on the that that are better integrated with their day-to-day debt owed by the Humber bridge board to the Department business and designed around the needs of the passenger. for Transport to continue to remain at the reduced rate It will allow them to adopt appropriate new technology equivalent to 4.25% on the total debt of £332 million as it become available. I want to move away from the during the period 1 April 2011 to 31 March 2016. The current, highly prescriptive, one-size-fits-all approach debt represents borrowing from Government for the where all operators run the same regime to one where construction of the Humber bridge and the subsequent industry takes a more proactive and more innovative capitalisation of annual deficits in the early years of its and tailored approach to security. operation. This approach will also enable the regulator to operate Without this order, the interest rate payable on that a system of “earned autonomy”—rewarding those part of the debt not suspended (£275 million) would operators with the most robust systems of aviation revert to 7.75%, as set by the Humber Bridge (Debts) security with greater trust in how they deliver the specified Order 1998. The value of the interest rate reduction to outcomes. Conversely, the level of scrutiny by the regulator the Humber bridge board amounts to £48 million over will increase proportionately where any concerns arise the five years, which the board can use to fund maintenance about the delivery of the required outcomes. and renewals and/or to make capital repayments. The safety and security of passengers will remain of This order demonstrates a major commitment by this paramount importance to the Government, and so the Government to the council taxpayers, travelling public new arrangements will have robust oversight procedures and businesses of the Humber area. Without it, the in place to ensure security standards are not compromised. Humber bridge board would have been obliged either To do this, I am proposing to require all industry to surcharge council taxpayers in the Humber area, or operators to develop a security management system. to increase the tolls on the bridge by as much as 60%. This would demonstrate a clear commitment to providing The arrangement forms part of the base case for an overall high-level of security and set out how security second phase of the Humber bridge review announced outcomes specified by the UK regulator and EU on 14 June, and is made separately to the process of the requirements will be delivered. Integral to this will be review, which is now under way and on which the robust internal quality assurance and auditing arrangements Economic Secretary to the Treasury and I will make a which will complement the regulator’s own assurance further announcement in November. and compliance processes. I have stated that the reduced interest rate on the loan The consultation also proposes new reporting is the equivalent of 4.25% payable on the entire debt of arrangements whereby industry will regularly report to £332 million. In 2011-12 this will comprise 5.13% charged the regulator on performance and occurrences (including on the active portion of the debt (£275 million) and nil the rectification measures to be taken). This gives the payable on the suspended portion of the debt (£57 million). regulator a fuller picture on which to base decisions and As set out in the 1998 Order, the suspended portion of direct regulatory effort. I also propose to introduce a the debt will progressively be added back into the active system that allows staff to report on a confidential basis debt over the three years to 2014. The interest rate will any concerns relating to aviation security. These proposed be reduced accordingly to equate to the 4.25% on the arrangements will provide an additional layer of assurance. whole debt. Therefore the rate payable on the active This approach offers a new partnership between debt in the three years 2011-12 to 2013-14 will be 5.13%, Government and the industry, one that is dedicated to 4.82% and 4.52% respectively. maintaining the highest standards in aviation security This order is made under the provisions of the Humber while also improving the passenger experience. Bridge (Debts) Act 1996, and comes into force on These are complex proposals, which require further 9 August. Upon the coming into force of this order, a development in consultation with the aviation industry revised loan agreement will be signed between the Secretary and other interested parties. The Department for Transport of State and the Humber bridge board. will be making extensive efforts to engage industry during the consultation process to explain the proposals South East Airports Taskforce further and to seek input. Following the end of the consultation, the Government The Minister of State, Department for Transport will then consider all responses and produce a summary (Mrs Theresa Villiers): On 15 June 2010, the Government report along with next steps. I will make a further announced the establishment of the South East Airports statement to the House at that point. Taskforce with representatives from the aviation industry 55WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 56WS to explore the scope for measures to help make the most The second phase will run from July 2012 to September of existing airport infrastructure and improve conditions 2012, providing the added benefit of enabling greater for all users. I chaired the taskforce. Its focus was on resilience during the London Olympic and Paralympic action at our three biggest airports—Heathrow, Gatwick games when the UK’s airports will be under more and Stansted. Today I am announcing the publication pressure than normal. The trial will be undertaken by of the taskforce’s final report. BAA, the airport operator, under the supervision of the The taskforce was given a challenging remit. It had Civil Aviation Authority, the independent aviation regulator. 12 months to identify operational improvements that BAA will be required to engage fully and transparently could enhance the performance of these airports and with relevant local authorities, communities and other bring benefits to passengers. The report is the culmination stakeholders throughout the process, particularly on of a year-long programme of work across seven areas, the monitoring of noise impacts. Once assessed, the including punctuality, security and border controls. It results of the trial will form the basis for a consultation sets out the issues considered by the taskforce and its with local communities which would in due course conclusions. inform the Government in deciding whether an operational I would draw particular attention to the chapter on freedoms regime should be adopted at Heathrow. improving punctuality, tackling delay and strengthening I am grateful to the taskforce members not only for resilience. The focus of this chapter is on Heathrow, their constructive input into the taskforce over the past which is the UK’s biggest, busiest and most capacity few months, but also for their continuing commitment constrained airport. The main recommendation is that to delivering real improvements for passengers. I intend the scope for establishing a set of operational freedoms to reconvene the taskforce in a year’s time to review the at Heathrow should be explored. These would enable progress made. the greater use of tactical measures in defined and Copies of the report document are available from the limited circumstances to prevent or mitigate disruption Department’s website at: www.dft.gov.uk. and to facilitate recovery. These measures are consistent with our commitment to runway alternation at the airport and there would be no increase in the number of flights at the airport which will remain capped at current WORK AND PENSIONS levels. Tactical measures, such as operating twin arrivals streams for limited periods to tackle inbound delays, are Work Capability Assessment already used at Heathrow; implementation of these proposals would mean greater use of such measures on days when the airport faced particular disruption. The The Minister of State, Department for Work and taskforce has concluded that such an approach would Pensions (Chris Grayling): Today the Government will deliver benefits, particularly in improving reliability, but publish a call for evidence as part of Professor Malcolm would also mean some limited redistribution of noise Harrington’s second independent review of the Work when measures were applied. Capability Assessment (WCA). The work carried out so far indicates that the proposals In November 2010 we published Professor Harrington’s could result in net environmental benefits,—for example, first review, which was the first of five annual independent through reducing stacking and cutting the number of reviews of the WCA. Professor Harrington concluded unscheduled flights during the night period. However, that the WCA was not broken but made a number of on the limited occasions where these freedoms would recommendations to improve its fairness and effectiveness. operate, some communities would be likely to experience We fully endorsed his review and have implemented the aircraft noise during current respite periods; hence the vast majority of its recommendations, with all the need for safeguards to ensure they are deployed only to recommendations relating to IB reassessment already in anticipate, prevent and mitigate disruption and to facilitate place. recovery. We reappointed Professor Harrington to undertake Before any commitment is made to implementing the second year review of the WCA and this call for such operational freedoms, better evidence is needed of evidence will be one of several methods used to gather the potential benefits and impacts. I am therefore information to support the review and inform its announcing a phased trial of operational freedoms at recommendations. The call for evidence is particularly Heathrow. The trial will provide firm evidence on the interested in views and evidence about: benefits and impacts of these measures and will provide The implementation of Professor Harrington’s year 1 a basis for consultation with local communities before a recommendations and the impact they are having; decision is taken on whether the proposed additional What, if any, further work is required in future reviews; and operational freedoms should be adopted on a permanent The face-to-face assessment. basis and what safeguards should apply in relation to The call for evidence runs until 16 September 2011. their use. Professor Harrington will make his final recommendations The trial will be in two phases to enable evidence to to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions by the be gathered for both winter and summer operations. end of the year. Following engagement with local communities, the first phase will run from November 2011 to February 2012, A copy of the call for evidence will be placed in the followed by a four-month period of initial assessment Libraries of both Houses and will be available on the and further engagement on how the regime might be Department’s website. refined to mitigate any impacts of particular concern http://www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/welfare-reform/ and deliver additional benefits. employment-and-support/wca-independent-review. 57WS Written Ministerial Statements14 JULY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 58WS

Informal Employment and Social Policy, Health and age; and solidarity between generations. The United Consumer Affairs Council Kingdom chose to participate in the workshop discussing reconciliation of work and family life. My hon. Friend, The Minister of State, Department for Work and described the success of the right to request flexible Pensions (Chris Grayling): The informal meeting of working and how the Government plan to extend this Employment and Social Policy Ministers took place on to all employees. He further described how the United 7-8 July 2011 in Sopot, Poland. The Under-Secretary of Kingdom Government are consulting on changes to its State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend parental leave system to make it more flexible by allowing the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), greater sharing of leave between partners and for leave who is responsible for employment relations, consumer to be taken in blocks rather than a continuous period. and postal affairs, represented the United Kingdom. Other member states described their own domestic priorities. The theme for this informal meeting was active labour In conclusion, the presidency once again underlined the market policies and reconciliation of work and family value of sharing experiences and stated that its family life. On the first day of the meeting, the presidency ministerial conference on 21 October would build on invited views on how to increase the effectiveness of these discussions by focusing on reconciliation of work pro-active employment policies through greater competition. and family life issues including the pregnant workers The Commission stressed the need to improve further directive. the efficiency of public employment services. For the United Kingdom, my hon. Friend, delivered a keynote speech explaining how, in the UK, we are using competition to help reduce the numbers of people on-out-of work Social Fund Reports benefits. He highlighted that the recently introduced Work programme aimed to help those furthest from the labour market, including providing support for people moving off incapacity benefit and those coming from The Minister of State, Department for Work and the most challenging backgrounds. This support would Pensions (Steve Webb): The Secretary of State’s annual be provided by specialist private and voluntary sector report on the Social Fund for 2010-11 is to be laid providers, rewarded on a payment-by-results approach. before Parliament and published later today. Copies The funding for this programme would come from will be available in the Vote Office and the Printed savings generated as well as from the European Social Paper Office. Fund. On the second day, there were three simultaneous The Social Fund Commissioner’s report will also workshops aimed at sharing national experiences covering: be published today and copies will be available in the reconciliation of work and family life; raising the retirement Libraries of both Houses. 425W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 426W Written Answers to Lloyd Banking Group: Redundancy

Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Questions Scotland whether he has had recent discussions with representatives of Lloyds Banking Group on planned Thursday 14 July 2011 redundancies in Scotland. [66144]

Michael Moore: I met with representatives of Lloyds SCOTLAND Banking Group on 4 and 7 July 2011. Andy Coulson Olympic Games 2012 Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew Scotland what recent assessment he has made of the Coulson since 21 January 2011; [66067] benefits to the economy of Scotland of the London (2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) 2012 Olympics. [66087] Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew David Mundell: Scotland stands to gain from the Coulson between 12 May 2010 and 21 January 2011. wide range of opportunities created by the Games, [66068] through businesses winning Games-related work, increased Michael Moore: As has been the practice of previous tourism and cultural celebrations. Administrations information relating to internal meetings, As of June 2011, 25 Scottish businesses directly involved discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. in the construction programme have supplied the Olympic I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s Delivery Authority, to the value of almost £24.5 million. statement to the House of 13 July 2011, Official Report, This figure does not include the value of contracts columns 311-14. further down the supply chain. British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation Trade Groups Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for attended which were also attended by (A) representatives, Scotland (1) who will be members of the Scottish trade (B) journalists and (C) other employees of (1) News group announced on 8 July 2011; and what criteria will International and its subsidiary organisations including be set for membership; [66161] newspapers, (2) News Corporation and its subsidiary organisations and (3) BSkyB since 12 May 2010. [66060] (2) what powers will be provided to the Scottish trade group announced on 8 July 2011; and what Michael Moore: As has been the practice of previous funding the Government plans to provide to the group. Administrations information relating to internal meetings, [66162] discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s Michael Moore: Overseas trade and investment is statement of 13 July 2011, Official Report, columns 311-14. vital to the economic recovery and it is essential that Departmental Lost Property Scotland plays its part. On 8 July 2011, I established the Scottish Trade Group to examine ways in which the UK Government can do more to help Scottish companies Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for do business overseas. Scotland what property has been (a) lost and (b) stolen from his Department in the last 12 months; and This is a non-statutory group which will provide what the cost of replacement was. [66570] advice to me in my capacity as Secretary of State for Scotland. Its purpose is to serve as a direct channel for Michael Moore: In the last 12 months, one item has companies and others in Scotland to share views with been reported as lost. The Scotland Office incurred a the UK Government on their trade and investment cost of £125 to replace this item. priorities. Devolution We are working in partnership with the Scottish Council for Development and Industry (SCDI), who Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for will provide secretariat support and hosting facilities. Scotland what recent discussions he has had with the The Group will draw on the expertise of UK Trade and Prime Minister on a referendum on independence in Investment, Scottish Development International and Scotland. [66145] SCDI who are working hard to help Scottish companies do more trade across the globe. The Group will include Michael Moore: I have regular discussions with the representatives from a range of industry sectors from Prime Minister on a range of policy matters. across Scotland, drawing on SCDI’s broad membership. 427W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 428W

DEFENCE In doing so, we draw on a wide range of specialist personnel. Details of their numbers, ranks or positions, Cybercrime are being withheld for the purpose of safeguarding national security. Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what his most recent assessment is of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory threat faced by the UK from cyber attack; and what his policy is on how to respond to that threat. [64842] Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what factors were taken into account when Dr Fox: The Government take cyber security very deciding to relocate the Defence Science and seriously and has recently announced additional funding Technology Laboratory. [65049] of £650 million to protect the United Kingdom and to respond effectively to threats from cyberspace. Peter Luff: In 2009, Defence Science and Technology The national cyber security programme went live in Laboratory (DSTL) completed a programme of site April 2011 and is managed by the Office of Cyber rationalisation which reduced its footprint from 17 to Security and Information Assurance (OCSIA). The OCSIA three core sites: Porton Down, Fort Halstead and Portsdown supports the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster West. I have interpreted this question to refer to the General, my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham subsequent decision which I announced on 17 June (Mr Maude), and the National Security Council in 2011, Official Report, columns 87-88WS, to further determining priorities in relation to securing cyberspace. rationalise DSTL’s footprint and relocate staff from The unit provides strategic direction and coordinates Fort Halstead to Porton Down and Portsdown West. action relating to enhancing cyber security and information The following factors informed that decision: assurance in the UK. Capability Within the Ministry of Defence (MOD) there are The majority of the capabilities based at Fort Halstead will technical, organisational, procedural, and physical measures benefit from relocation because of potential synergies of skills in place to protect against and mitigate the impact of and facilities with capabilities already based at the other DSTL cyber attacks. We do not comment on the specific detail sites. No capabilities will be disadvantaged by such a move. of cyber security incidents or threat assessments. Flexibility The MOD is leading on work to develop a cyber Focusing on a smaller number of sites will increase DSTL’s security and information risk management regime under ability to flex resources between capabilities in response to changing the auspices of the pan-Government Information customer demand and priorities—including any potential future Communications Technology (ICT) strategy to apply to draw-down. all major ICT projects and common infrastructure and Career development services Staff will have greater opportunity to develop their careers by The MOD reviews the adequacy of its overall protection moving within DSTL without needing to move home. on an annual basis to inform its planning round process. Smith review Nearly 800 civil service posts will be relocated out of the Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for south-east of England. Defence what the timetable is for delivery of each Sustainability programme funded through his Department’s allocation Much of the building stock and infrastructure at Fort Halstead to cyber security. [64907] is old and not carbon efficient. The move will enable DSTL to significantly improve its performance against its sustainability Dr Fox: The Defence Cyber Security Programme, targets. which is responsible for delivering the Defence element Finance of the National Cyber Security Programme in the Ministry DSTL will save about £1 million of operating costs per month. of Defence, will deliver its objectives by 2015. Departmental Pay Cybercrime: Manpower

Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many (a) military and (b) non-military Defence what salary each Minister in his Department serving personnel are assigned to cyber security tasks; received in 2010-11. [64568] and what the rank or position is of each such person. [64908] Dr Fox [holding answer 7 July 2011]: On 13 May 2010 this Government introduced a 5% reduction in Dr Fox: Cyber security is the responsibility of all ministerial salaries compared to Ministers in the last personnel within the Ministry of Defence, and we are Government. taking action to mainstream it into the way we conduct Salaries paid to Ministers in the Ministry of Defence operations and business. for financial year 2010-11 are as follows:

Period:

Ministers From To Salary to 31 March 2011 (£)

Dr Liam Fox MP 12 May 2010 31 March 2011 61,056.18

Nick Harvey MP 13 May 2010 31 March 2011 29,187.29 429W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 430W

Period: Ministers From To Salary to 31 March 2011 (£)

Gerald Howarth MP 14 May 2010 31 March 2011 20,894.13 Andrew Robathan MP 14 May 2010 31 March 2011 20,894.13 Peter Luff MP 26 May 2010 31 March 2011 20,129.71 Lord Astor of Hever 26 May 2010 31 March 2011 0

Disclosure of Information Government Departments and in relation to collaborative projects where the payments are made through international Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for procurement agencies or overseas Governments; Defence how much the inquiry established to determine From 2004-05, the individual subsidiaries and joint responsibility for the unauthorised disclosure of the ventures relating to EDS Defence Limited have been letter from the Secretary of State to the Prime Minister reproduced from the corporate structures published in published in The Daily Telegraph on 28 September 2010 Table 1.17a of UK Defence Statistics. We have used the has cost to date. [65514] Hewlett Packard corporate structure for 2008-09 onwards following their takeover of EDS. Where a contract is Dr Fox [holding answer 12 July 2011]: There has novated during the year, annual payments are recorded been no net additional cost, as it is being undertaken by against the company taking ownership of the contract. staff as part of their official duties that are already Figures before 2004-05 may not reflect the full holding resourced. company structure for EDS Defence Limited owing to data limitations. Electronic Data Systems Marines Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how much his Department paid to EDS Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for between 1997 and 2010; and how much his Department Defence whether the Royal Marines are configured to paid to EDS in compensation for changes to the operate at brigade level following implementation of Defence Information Infrastructure project in (a) 2006 the proposals in the strategic defence and security and (b) 2007. [63470] review. [65854]

Peter Luff: Payments made by the Ministry of Defence Nick Harvey: By implementing the proposals set out (MOD) to EDS Defence Limited are shown in the table. in the strategic defence and security review, the Royal No compensation payments were made to EDS Defence Marines will be configured to deliver one Lead Commando Limited for changes to the Defence Information Group of up to 1,800 personnel. Infrastructure project in 2006 and 2007. The necessary project enhancements were effected through the MOD’s Medals programme change procedures. Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Financial year Payments (£ million) how many Polar Medals have been awarded since 1997. 1997-98 n/a [65889] 1998-99 141 Mr Robathan: 73 Polar Medals and seven Clasps have 1999-2000 116 been awarded since 1997. 2000-01 118 2001-02 144 Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence 2002-03 179 what criteria are applied to determine the award of the 2003-04 181 Polar Medal. [66014] 2004-05 201 2005-06 336 Mr Robathan: The criteria are clearly outlined in the 2006-07 570 Royal Warrant of 1998 which was published in the 2007-08 634 London Gazette No. 55252 dated 14 September 1998. 2008-09 775 All nominations are considered in accordance with the 2009-10 818 Royal Warrant. n/a = Not available. Figures are at current prices and exclude VAT. Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence The payments reported have been extracted from the what his policy is on the Polar Medal; and if he will MOD’s central contracts database on which is recorded make a statement. [66015] the majority (about 95%) of all MOD payments. Any payments not processed centrally are not included and Mr Robathan: The policy is clearly outlined in the may have been made on behalf of other Government Royal Warrant of 1998 which was published in the Departments, by the MOD’s Trading Funds and Executive London Gazette No. 55252 dated 14 September 1998. Non-Departmental Public Bodies (which lie outside the Her Majesty the Queen is the final arbitrator of the MOD’s accounting boundary), locally by the Department, recommendations received from the Polar Medal through third parties such as prime contractors or other Assessment Committee. 431W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 432W

Military Aircraft Norman Baker: The Department has traditionally promoted both the Cycle to Work Scheme and the Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Cycle to Work Guarantee to employers, employees and Defence how many flying hours the Sentinel R1 other Government Departments across the country through aircraft undertook in (a) Afghanistan and (b) Libya a number of Departmental led promotions and projects. in the latest period for which data is available. [65856] The Department also funds the National Business Travel Network (NBTN). NBTN launched a DFT part funded Peter Luff [holding answer 13 July 2011]: Iam ’ways2work’ tool kit in November 2010 to help people withholding the information requested as its disclosure and businesses work more efficiently. The tool kit includes would, or would be likely to, prejudice the capability, a section on encouraging cycling to work. effectiveness or security of our armed forces. Most recently the Cycle to Work Scheme has been promoted through guidance to the members of the Military Police Physical Activity Network which is part of the Department for Health led Public Health Responsibility Deal. I have Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for also provided a foreword in support of the Cycle to Defence (1) how many service police are assigned to Work-Alliance’s Behavioural Impact Analysis. each location in the (a) Army, (b) RAF, (c) Navy and Finally, the results of bids for Tranche 1 of the Local (d) the Service Police Crime Bureau; [64911] Sustainable Transport Fund were released on 5 July (2) how many (a) military personnel of each rank 2011, many of which included elements relating to and (b) non-military personnel of each grade serve in cycling to work. the (i) Royal Military Police, (ii) Royal Air Force Police, (iii) Royal Navy Police and (iv) Service Police Crime Bureau. [65071] Dartford-Thurrock Crossing: Tolls

Mr Robathan: I will write to the hon. Member. Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether any external consultants have been engaged as part of the planned introduction of TRANSPORT free-flow charging on the Dartford Crossing. [65037] Business: Billing Mike Penning: External consultants have been engaged by the Highways Agency to support the development of Oliver Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for the options and business case for the introduction of Transport what proportion of invoices from small and free-flow charging at the Dartford-Thurrock river crossing. medium-sized businesses were paid by his Department within five working days of receipt in the last Departmental Procurement 12 months for which figures are available. [63556]

Norman Baker: The percentage of invoices paid within Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for five days by the Department for the 12 months June Transport what provisions in respect of behavioural 2010 to May 2011 is 90.66%. It is not possible to standards have been included in procurement contracts distinguish those which relate to small and medium-sized issued by his Department since May 2010. [61679] businesses. This represents 181,653 invoices paid within five days Norman Baker: While the Department for Transport for the 12-month period out of 200,374 invoices received. does not require contractors to comply with specific The Department does not currently record and publish ‘behavioural standards’, where relevant, the standard information about the size of suppliers as this does not terms of the Department’s contracts include requirements fully reflect the number and size of businesses engaged in respect of discrimination, health and safety, the in supplying goods and services. We do not discriminate environment, and the protection of employment in the by size of business because many SMEs can be found event of a transfer of an undertaking (TUPE). within larger supply chains. Departmental Regulation Crown Relocations Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the name is of each regulatory measure Transport how many contracts his Department holds revoked by his Department between 2 March and 31 with Crown Relocations; and what the (a) purpose and May 2011; and what estimate he has made of the (b) monetary value of each such contract is. [58640] potential annual saving to those affected by each Norman Baker: The Department for Transport holds revocation. [60574] no contracts with Crown Relocations. Norman Baker: The Department for Transport made Cycling two statutory instruments (not counting temporary and local ones) that came into force during the period Karl McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for between 2 March and 31 May 2011 and contained Transport what steps he is taking to promote the Cycle revocations. They are listed in the following table. Neither to Work Scheme in (a) Lincoln constituency, (b) was expected to result in any saving to those affected as Lincolnshire and (c) the UK. [66148] the changes to the law were technical. 433W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 434W

Title No. In force

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency Trading Fund (Revocation) Order 2011 SI 2011/630 1 April 2011 The Air Navigation (Dangerous Goods) (Amendment) Regulations 2011 SI 2011/650 4 March 2011

Departmental Responsibilities also maximises the environmental benefits of plug-in vehicles by using low carbon night-time generation and Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for is economically preferable, as it allows consumers to Transport on how many occasions a request for a take advantage of cheaper off-peak tariffs. meeting by an hon. Member of each political party has been refused by (a) a Minister in his Department Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport directly and (b) his Department on behalf of a what assessment his Department has made of the Minister since May 2010. [64418] potential effect of his policy on charging points on the take-up of subsidies for the purchase of electric- Norman Baker: I regret that the information requested powered vehicles in each of the next four financial is not held in the format requested and could be provided years. [64389] only at disproportionate cost. It is my general policy to accede to all requests for Norman Baker: The Department for Transport’s plug-in meetings requested by hon. Members, irrespective of vehicle infrastructure strategy “Making the Connection” party allegiance, unless there are exceptional reasons published on 30 June 2011, sets out the Government’s not to do so. strategy for promoting the installation of recharging infrastructure to support the growth in the plug-in vehicle market that we expect to see up to 2020. As well Electric Vehicles as this Strategy, the Government are also supporting the growth of the plug-in vehicle market through the Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Plug-In Car Grant providing a 25% discount (up to a what steps he is taking with electric vehicle manufacturers maximum of £5,000) on eligible vehicles. These policies to develop a standard electrical connection. [63475] support each other with the aim of maintaining the UK at the global forefront of the plug-in vehicle market. Norman Baker: This is a matter on which industry leads. Key players, as represented by the Society of Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Motor Manufacturers and Traders’ Electric Vehicle what recent estimate he has made of (a) the likely Group, the Plugged-In Places and the Institution of take-up of subsidies for the purchase of electric-powered Engineering and Technology’s Electric Vehicle Group, vehicles and (b) number of such vehicles which will be favour moving to a dedicated plug-in vehicle recharging subject to the subsidy in (i) Glasgow, (ii) Scotland and connector (the IEC62196-2 Type 2) to allow faster (iii) the UK in each of the next four financial years. recharging rates (up to 32A) than are possible with a [64467] three-pin plug. Given this clear direction of travel from industry, the Plugged-In Places will start to install public Norman Baker: The information requested is as follows: infrastructure with Type 2 connectors. We will continue (a) Although the market for these new generation vehicles is to monitor the emergence of standards with industry growing, it is still at a very early stage. There is a provision of £300 and internationally. million out to 2015 for consumer incentives. The Government are committed to keeping the scheme under regular review to ensure Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport value for money and to keep in step with market developments. what analysis his Department has conducted of the Manufacturers provide quarterly forecasts of UK merits of (a) charging points and (b) domestic supply and sales of eligible vehicles to inform financial charging of batteries for electric-powered vehicles. planning. However this information and estimates derived [64385] from this data is commercially sensitive and cannot be shared. Norman Baker: As set out in the Department for (b) 10 vehicles are currently eligible for the Plug-in Car Grant Transport’s plug-in vehicle infrastructure strategy “Making with five currently available for purchase anywhere in the UK. the Connection”, published on 30 June 2011, we want When required by ultra-low emission vehicle manufacturers, OLEV the majority of recharging of plug-in vehicles to take will run assessment panels to determine if additional vehicles will place at home, at night, in a period of off-peak demand be eligible for the Plug-in Car Grant. for electricity. This will be supported by recharging at workplaces and public infrastructure targeted at those Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport places where they are most likely to be used. what support his Department plans to provide for This approach is supported by the findings of the charging points for electric-powered vehicles in (a) Technology Strategy Board’s Ultra Low Carbon Vehicle Glasgow, (b) Scotland and (c) the UK in the next four Demonstrator programme, one of the largest trials of financial years. [64489] plug-in vehicles in the world, the Energy Technology Institute’s Plug-In Vehicle Economics and Infrastructure Norman Baker: The Government have made £30 million programme, Element Energy’s work for the Committee available through the Plugged-In Places programme to on Climate Change and WWFs recent report “Electric match fund pilot projects in eight areas across the UK, Avenues”. These show that recharging at home, at night, as part of our Carbon Plan commitment to install 8,500 is how drivers prefer to recharge. This type of recharging chargepoints. Transport Scotland was awarded £1.2 million 435W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 436W on 14 December 2010 as part of this programme to Costs include: install 375 chargepoints in Central Scotland, including Direct costs of Coastguard MRCCs, including operating costs Glasgow. comprising: payroll, running costs and accommodation costs. In addition on 30 June 2011, the Government published Some running and accommodation costs include those relating “Making the Connection: the plug-in vehicle infrastructure to other Maritime and Coastguard Agency co-located offices and strategy”, which set out a range of support that the non-separable district office costs. Government are providing to promote the installation Costs exclude: of recharging infrastructure in the UK including: Running and maintenance of National Information Removing barriers to the market, such as the requirement for Communication Technology infrastructure such as radio planning permission for public recharging infrastructure and communications networks, masts and towers, as such costs are working to enable charegepoint operators to charge the market not held on a site by site basis. rate for electricity from public chargepoints; Similarly, capital projects such as IT and equipment refresh are Producing a conducive environment for private investment by not held on a site by site basis. encouraging infrastructure through planning policies, supporting Sector managers’ pay (those responsible for managing the the move to standardisation and, if raising finance proves a volunteer coastguard rescue officers (CROs)) and the cost of the barrier, the potential for targeted financial solutions through the volunteer CROs. Green Investment Bank; and Helping the consumer by enabling all public infrastructure to Scotland be interoperable and improving the provision of information about public chargepoints. Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Rail Value for Money Review Transport what proportion of contracts issued by (a) his Department and (b) agencies for which he is responsible were awarded to small and medium-sized Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for enterprises in (i) Scotland, (ii) South Lanarkshire and Transport what assessment he has made of the effects (iii) Rutherglen and Hamilton West constituency in the of the recommendations of the McNulty review on the latest period for which figures are available. [60204] number of (a) ticket offices and (b) on-board rail staff working (i) at stations and (ii) on trains between Norman Baker: The information requested is as follows: Brighton and London. [65719] (a) (i to iii) DFT(C) would incur disproportionate costs in trying to obtain this information. Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport will be working closely with the Office of Rail Regulation and (b) (i) VOSA awarded two contracts—3.63 % of their totals contracts awarded to small and medium enterprises (SME) in the rail industry over the next few months to analyse Sir Scotland. DSA, HA and MCA would incur disproportionate Roy’s recommendations and to agree proposals for the costs in trying to obtain this information. DVLA, GCDA and reform of the industry. VCA have awarded no contracts to SME in Scotland. Railways: Halton (b) (ii) VOSA awarded 0% of total contracts to SME in South Lanarkshire. (b) (iii) VOSA awarded 0% of total contracts to SME in Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for Rutherglen and West Hamilton. Transport whether he has assessed the feasibility of opening the Halton Curve for scheduled passenger Shipping: EU Action services. [66281] Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Mrs Villiers: Merseytravel has carried out a study to what estimate he has made of the potential change in establish whether there is a business case for a new local costs of inspection of foreign registered vessels calling passenger service between Chester/North Wales and at British ports arising from the implementation of the Liverpool using an upgraded Halton Curve. In the light European Port State Control Directive. [64099] of this, it is for Merseytravel rather than the Department for Transport to determine whether this scheme should Mike Penning: An estimate of the potential cost of be a priority for funding. inspection of foreign registered ships calling at UK Rescue Services: Expenditure ports arising from the implementation of the European Port State Control Directive is set out in a consultation stage impact assessment. The present value of the monetised Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for cost has been estimated at around £3.2 million over ten Transport how much it cost to run the coastguard years. station at (a) Bangor, (b) Liverpool and (c) Aberdeen in the last 12 months for which figures are available. [65165] INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Mike Penning: The costs for the three Maritime Rescue STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE Co-ordination Centres (MRCC) for the financial year 2010-11 are as follows: Members: Allowances

MRCC Costs (£ million) Adam Afriyie: To ask the hon. Member for (a) Belfast (Bangor) 0.70 Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for (b) Liverpool 0.80 the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, (c) Aberdeen 1.40 pursuant to the answer of 4 July 2011, Official Report, column 959W, on Members: allowances, whether the 437W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 438W

Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 13 July 2011: intends to make an assessment of the effects on public As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards confidence in Parliament of the bi-monthly frequency Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary of its publication of claims. [64900] Question asking for what reasons the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority’s policy of retaining recordings of telephone Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls calls for more than six years is not stated on its website. within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary We do not envisage that there are business reasons to retain Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. recording of telephone conversations beyond the retention period. Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 13 July 2011: This policy is currently being reviewed and a revised policy will be published before the end of the year. As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking whether the Independent Parliamentary Standards Helen Jones: To ask the hon. Member for Authority intends to make an assessment of the effects on public Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for confidence in Parliament of the bi-monthly frequency of its the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, if publication of claims. he will place in the Library a copy of the advice given Transparency is central to our efforts to restore public confidence to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in the manner in which MPs are reimbursed for expenses and by the Information Commissioner on the retention of business costs. The lack of transparency under the former regime recordings of telephone conversations. [64457] governing MPs’ expenses was one of the factors that brought it into disrepute. Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls A recent survey commissioned by the National Audit Office within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary found that public confidence is increasing: 55% of the general Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. public thought that the situation with respect of MPs’ expenses had improved in the last year. Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 13 July 2011: IPSA’s view is that our approach to publication needs to strike As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards a balance between cost effectiveness on one hand and public Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary confidence on the other. The evolution is clear—from the declining Question, if I will place in the Library a copy of the advice given number of hits with every publication—that everybody is becoming to the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority by the used to bi-monthly publication as a regular feature of our transparency Information Commissioner on the retention of recordings of regime. We see no reasons to undertake further research on this telephone conversations. issue. We have neither sought nor received such advice. When IPSA first started operations it drew up a draft records management Telephone Calls policy which contained a retention policy of six years for electronic and digital files, which include telephone calls. IPSA is currently reviewing this policy and envisages amending Helen Jones: To ask the hon. Member for the retention period for a range of records, including recordings Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for of telephone conversations. A revised policy will be published the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, before the end of the year. for what reasons the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority’s policy of retaining recordings of telephone calls for more than six years is not stated on its website. [64455] LEADER OF THE HOUSE Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 13 July 2011: As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Luciana Berger: To ask the Leader of the House (1) Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers Question asking, for what reasons the Independent Parliamentary and (ii) special advisers in his Department attended Standards Authority’s policy of retaining recordings of telephone which were also attended by (A) representatives, (B) calls for more than six years is not stated on its website journalists and (C) other employees of (1) News It is currently IPSA’s policy to retain all digital and electronic International and its subsidiary organisations, including records, which include telephone calls, for six years. This policy is newspapers, (2) News Corporation and its subsidiary currently being reviewed and a revised policy will be published before the end of the year. organisations and (3) BSkyB since May 2010; [66070] (2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Helen Jones: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew Parliamentary Standards Authority, for what business Coulson (A) between 12 May 2010 and 21 January reasons the Independent Parliamentary Standards 2011 and (B) since 21 January 2011. [66072] Authority considers it may be necessary to retain recordings of telephone conversations after a period of six years Sir George Young: As has been the practice of previous has elapsed. [64456] Administrations information relating to internal meetings, discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary statement to the House on 13 July 2011, Official Report, Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. columns 311-14. 439W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 440W

HEALTH Dementia: Bexley

British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what estimate he has made of the number of people in Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the London Borough of Bexley who have been what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers diagnosed with dementia in the latest period for which and (ii) special advisers in his Department attended figures are available. [65566] which were also attended by (A) representatives, (B) journalists and (C) other employees of (1) News Paul Burstow: Data on new diagnoses of dementia International and its subsidiary organisations, including are not collected. However the Quality and Outcomes newspapers, (2) News Corporation and its subsidiary Framework (QOF) collects each year the number of organisations and (3) BSkyB since 12 May 2010. [66064] patients on the dementia register in general practices. The figure for the latest year (2009-10) for Bexley Mr Simon Burns: As has been the practice of previous Care Trust (the primary care trust area corresponding Administrations information relating to internal meetings, to the London borough of Bexley) is 908 patients. discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. I refer Note: the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s statement to Coverage of QOF. Patients will only contribute to the figures in the House of 13 July 2011, Official Report, columns 311-14. QOF if they are registered with a general practice participating in QOF. Carers Dental Health: Devon Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what procedures regulate the (a) quality Anne Marie Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) safety of care providers in receipt of personal Health what assessment his Department has made of budget payments; [65664] the level of tooth decay amongst children aged 12 and under in (a) Devon and (b) Teignbridge in the latest (2) what safeguards his Department has put in place year for which figures are available. [64517] in respect of the expenditure of personal budgets on unregistered carers. [65665] Mr Simon Burns: The ‘NHS Dental Epidemiology Programme for England Oral Health Survey of 12 year Paul Burstow: Under the Health and Social Care Act old Children 2008/2009’ shows that the average number 2008, all providers of regulated activities as defined in of decayed, missing and filled teeth (DMFT) among regulations made under the Act, regardless of how the 12-year-old children in Teignbridge was 1.06 compared activity is funded, must be registered with the Care to a DMFT of 0.77 for Devon and 0.74 for England as Quality Commission (CQC) and meet and continue to a whole. In order to address persistent inequalities in meet 16 essential requirements of safety and quality. oral health the Department is developing a new dental Personal care provided by a family member or friend, contract based on capitation, registration and quality. with no commercial consideration, does not require registration with the CQC. The full results of the survey are available at: Where the care is arranged and directed by the person www.nwph.net/dentalhealth/survey-results-12.aspx receiving the care, without the involvement of an agency, The two tables from the survey that include the above the provider is not required to register with the CQC. data have been placed in the Library. This allows the individual to use the personal budget Health Authorities: Postgraduate Education flexibly and choose whatever arrangements suit them best. If they wish to use a provider that is registered with the CQC, with the assurances that registration Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for provides, then they are free to do so. Health what duties strategic health authorities have in respect of postgraduate education; and which organisations Where an individual purchasing support employs will take on such duties following the abolition of the someone from an agency, the agency has the responsibility authorities. [66141] of supplying staff who have had a Criminal Record Bureau (CRB) check. However, if the individual chooses Anne Milton: Strategic health authorities are responsible to employ someone directly they can also request that a for funding, planning and quality assuring the provision CRB check is carried out before they employ that of postgraduate education and training, including medical person as a personal assistant. and dental post-graduate training programmes and post- Adults with capacity to consent to direct payments or graduate programmes for other healthcare professionals. a suitable person are not obliged to obtain CRB checks In line with the recommendations of the Future Forum for someone they employ. on education and training, strategic health authorities In both cases, the council should still inform the are working with stakeholders and their local healthcare direct payment recipient that, while a CRB check is not providers to develop employer-led partnerships to plan mandatory, they may still wish to consider obtaining and develop their local work force, including planning one as part of their overall risk management plan. for relevant clinical post-graduate programmes, when However, it is ultimately a matter for the individual. the strategic health authorities close in April 2013. In the case of a suitable person managing a direct A new national body, Health Education England, is payment on behalf of someone lacking capacity who is to be established to provide national leadership for not a close relative, regulations do require a CRB check education and training and hold to account the new for anyone providing care via a direct payment. local arrangements for providing the best quality education 441W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 442W and training. The transition will be phased so that colleagues through the Home Affairs’ Sub-Committee provider-led partnerships can take on responsibilities as on Public Health. This work continues through the they are able to demonstrate their capacity and capability Sub-Committee, and as part of wider discussions in against a rigorous authorisation process. We will set out other ministerial meetings. further details in the autumn. Health Services Hospitals: Waiting Lists

Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for for Health whether commissioning groups will decide Health what the median waiting time for (a) inpatient when to (a) use and (b) prevent a competitive market and (b) outpatient treatments was for patients in York when delivering certain health services; and if he will in (i) May 1997 and (ii) May of each subsequent year. make a statement. [66296] [65610]

Mr Simon Burns: Our intention is that the application Mr Simon Burns: Since 1997 the national health of choice and competition should be driven by patients’ service has changed the way it measures waiting times, needs and expectations, and may vary across different therefore more than one set of data are provided to service areas. answer the question. As now, it would be for commissioners to take decisions Information on median wait times for in-patient (elective on when and how to use choice and competition in care admissions) at York Teaching Hospitals NHS improving services in line with guidance from the NHS Foundation Trust (FT) between June 1997 and March Commissioning Board and the mandate and regulations 2010 is shown in the following table: set by the Secretary of State. The Government’s focus is on increasing patient choice Month ending Median wait (in weeks) as the key driver of higher-quality, more personalised June 1997 12.2 care. However, competitive tendering would remain an June 1998 16.8 option where commissioners decide this is the best way May 1999 12.9 to improve services for patients. May 2000 16.2 Health Services: Freedom of Information May 2001 16.4 May 2002 15.9 May 2003 14.8 Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for May 2004 11.5 Health if he will ensure that any private companies May 2005 9.9 providing health care services for NHS patients will be May 2006 8.8 subject to the provisions of the Freedom of May 2007 6.4 Information Act 2000. [66235] May 2008 4.9 May 2009 4.7 Mr Simon Burns: The Freedom of Information Act March 2010 3.5 (FOIA) applies to public authorities and companies Notes: wholly owned by public authorities in England, Wales 1. No figures are available for May 1997, as waiting times data was only and Northern Ireland. collected quarterly in 1997. Therefore, figures for June 1997 have been provided. 2. Figures on in-patient and out-patient waiting times were only published Where national health service commissioners contract monthly from June 1998. Therefore, figures for June 1998 have been provided. with private providers for the provision of health care 3. Data on in-patient waiting lists not collected after March 2010. Therefore, figures for March 2010 have been provided. services, the NHS standard contract would require that 4. The figures show the median waiting times for patients still waiting for the provider must acknowledge that the commissioners admission at the end of the period stated. are subject to the requirements of FOIA and shall assist 5. Median waiting times are calculated from aggregate data, rather than patient level data, and therefore are only estimates of the position on average waits. and co-operate with each commissioner to enable the Source: commissioner to comply with its disclosure obligations Department of Health KH07, Monthly monitoring return. under the FOIA. Information on the median referral to treatment (RTT) Health Services: Standards waiting time (weeks) for patients completing a pathway for York Teaching Hospitals NHS FT between 2008 Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State and 2011 is shown in the following table. for Health what discussions he has had with ministerial Admitted (adjusted) pathways completed during month: colleagues on implementation of the recommendations Period Median waiting time (in weeks) of the Marmot review of health inequalities in May 2008 10.1 [66172] England. May 2009 10.2 May 2010 8.2 Anne Milton: ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Our April 2011 6.5 Strategy for Public Health in England’ (Cm 7985) was Notes: the Government’s response to the Marmot review on 1. The figures show the median time for patients completing a pathway in the health inequalities in England. It adopts a ‘life course period stated. 2. Median waiting times are calculated from aggregate data, rather than patient approach’ for tackling health inequalities by addressing level data, and therefore are only estimates of the position on average waits. the social determinants of health, in line with the review’s 3. May 2011 figures will be published on 14 July 2011. recommendations. This cross-Government approach to 4. These figures reflect the total time waited from referral to treatment as compared to in-patient stage of treatment as shown in the previous table. tackling health inequalities and the wider social Source: determinants of health was developed with ministerial Department of Health Referral to Treatment return 443W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 444W

Information on median waiting time (weeks) for out- Number of patients still waiting over six patients seen during the quarter May to July between Month ending months at month end 1997 and 2007 for York Teaching Hospitals NHS FT is shown in the following table. 1998 2,744 1999 1,641 Out-patients seen during the quarter: 2000 1,752 Quarter ending Median wait (in weeks) 2001 1,884 June 1997 6.5 2002 1,900 June 1998 6.6 2003 1,711 June 1999 8.9 2004 826 June 2000 8.5 2005 532 June 2001 5.7 2006 0 June 2002 5.7 2007 0 June 2003 5.7 2008 0 June 2004 6.4 2009 0 June 2005 5.9 2010 0 June 2006 4.6 Notes: 1. Since 2006, figures reflect number of patients waiting over 26 weeks. June 2007 3.8 2. Data on inpatient waiting lists not collected after March 2010. Notes: Source: 1. Data on out-patient times waited are only available quarterly, so figures for Department of Health KH07, monthly monitoring return. quarter ending June have been provided. 2. The figures show the median time waited for patients having a first consultant In addition, since 2007, waiting times on a referral to led out-patient appointment in the period stated. treatment (RTT) basis have been published. Information 3. Out-patient waiting times are measured from general practitioner referral to on the number of patients who waited over 26 weeks on first out-patient appointment. 4. Median waiting times are calculated from aggregate data, rather than patient an admitted RTT pathway at York Teaching Hospitals level data, and therefore are only estimates of the position on average waits. NHS FT between 2008 and 2011 is shown in the following 5. Figures last published September 2007. table: Source: Department of Health return QM08 Number of admitted patients who waited 26 Information on median RTT waiting time (weeks) for Financial year weeks or more from RTT non-admitted patients completing a pathway for York Teaching Hospitals NHS FT between 2008 and 2011 is 2008-09 498 shown in the following table. 2009-10 622 2010-11 410 Non-admitted pathways completed during month: Note: Period Median waiting time (in weeks) Data shown for whole financial year. Source: May 2008 5.2 Department of Health RTT return. May 2009 4.3 May 2010 3.9 April 2011 3.1 Influenza: Vaccination Notes: 1. The figures show the median time for patients completing a pathway in the Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for period stated. 2. Median waiting times are calculated from aggregate data, rather than patient Health how many pensioners in the North Yorkshire level data, and therefore are only estimates of the position on average waits. and York primary care trust area received influenza 3. May 2011 figures will be published on 14 July 2011, injections in each year since 2005. [65615] 4. These figures reflect the total time waited from referral to treatment as compared to the out-patient stages of treatment waiting time as shown in the previous table. Anne Milton: The information requested is set out in Source: Department of Health Referral to Treatment return the following table.

The most recent RTT data will be published on the Number of people aged 65 or over vaccinated Department’s website on 14 July 2011 at: Influenza season against seasonal influenza

www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Statistics/ 2006-07 110,892 Performancedataandstatistics/ReferraltoTreatmentstatistics/ 2007-08 111,177 index.htm 2008-09 113,431 2009-10 113,478 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2010-11 114,426 how many people in York waited for more than six months for NHS treatment in each year since 1997. [65611] It is not possible to provide data for 2005 as North Yorkshire and York primary care trust was not formed Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number of until 1 October 2006. patients waiting over six months for inpatient admission at York Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust (FT) from March 1997 to March 2010 is shown in the Medical Records: Databases following table: Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Number of patients still waiting over six Month ending months at month end what the original estimate, in current prices, was of the cost to the public purse of the electronic patient record March: system commissioned in 2002; and what the final cost, 1997 935 in current prices, was at the time of completion. [65632] 445W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 446W

Mr Simon Burns: The National Audit Office (NAO) Mental Health Report (2008) stated that the estimated total cost of the national programme for information technology would Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for be £12.7 billion. The latest NAO report (2011) stated Health if he will estimate the cost to the public purse of that the Department plans to reduce the overall cost of mental health problems arising from bereavement in the programme to £11.4 billion and that, as of 31 the latest period for which figures are available. [66090] March 2011, the Department and the national health service (in England) have spent £6.4 billion on the Paul Burstow: There is currently no mechanism for programme. These costs are based on a 2004-05 price recording whether or not bereavement has been a causal base. Certain elements of the programme have not yet factor contributing to someone’s need to be treated for been delivered. mental health problems. NHS: Drugs

Members: Correspondence Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for for North Wiltshire of 7 March 2011, Official Report, Health when he plans to answer the letter sent to him column 896W, on drugs: finance, how much the NHS by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton on spent on medicines including primary and secondary care in each year between 2005-06 and 2009-10 as a 27 May 2011 with regard to Ms M. Robinson. [65669] proportion of total NHS expenditure recorded in the National Programme Budgeting Database. [65663] Mr Simon Burns: The Department replied to the right hon. Member’s letter of 27 May 2011 on behalf of Mr Simon Burns: The requested information is detailed Ms Robinson on 29 June 2011. in the following table.

NHS medicines expenditure and as a proportion of national programme budget expenditure £ million Drugs as a proportion Primary care drugs Secondary care drugs Total drugs Programme budgeting of programme budget expenditure expenditure expenditure expenditure expenditure (%)

2005-06 7,235 2,764 9,999 80,185 12.5 2006-07 7,593 2,969 10,562 84,193 12.5 2007-08 7,663 3,274 10,937 93,183 11.7 2008-09 7,749 3,647 11,397 96,815 11.8 2009-10 7,946 3,974 11,920 103,975 11.5 Sources: Prescription Pricing Division of the NHS Business services Authority, England, Department of Health Finance Division, Foundation Trust year-end accounts. Department of Health resource accounts, primary care trust and strategic health authority programme budgeting returns.

NHS: Training people living and (B) age structure of the population which the PCT serves. [65619] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the cost to the public purse will be of the NHS Bursary Scheme in (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13; and if Mr Simon Burns: North Yorkshire and York primary he will make a statement. [66150] care trust (PCT) was established on 1 October 2006 as a result of a merger between Craven, Harrogate and Mr Simon Burns: The estimated expenditure for the Rural District PCT; Hambleton and Richmondshire NHS Bursary Scheme in 2011-12 is £525 million. The PCT; Scarborough, Whitby and Ryedale PCT; and costs are dependent on the number of students and the Selby and York PCT. As recurrent revenue allocations package of support available to each student. An estimate had already been made to the predecessor PCTs for of the costs for 2012-13 will be made once further 2006-07 and 2007-08, the first allocation made directly information is available about the number of student to North Yorkshire and York PCT was for 2008-09. places that will be filled in 2012-13. The following tables set out the allocations to predecessor North Yorkshire and York Primary Care Trust: Finance PCTs from 2003-04 to 2007-08, and to North Yorkshire and York PCT from 2008-09 to 2011-12. Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Recurrent revenue allocations to PCTs for 2012-13 Health what resource allocation was made to North will be announced later this year. Subject to the passing Yorkshire and York primary care trust (PCT) in the of the Health and Social Care Bill, the National Health year it was created and each subsequent year to Service Commissioning Board would take over 2011-12; and what allocation is planned for (a) responsibility for the allocation of resources from the 2012-13 and (b) 2013-14 in (i) cash terms, (ii) cash Department of Health for 2013-14 onwards. Allocations terms deflated by the retail prices index, (iii) cash terms would be made to clinical commissioning groups. Further deflated by inflation in health care costs and (iv) cash detail on allocations and processes will be announced in terms deflated by inflation in health care costs and due course. adjusted for demographic changes in the (A) number of 447W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 448W

Table 1: Recurrent revenue allocations made to the predecessor PCTs 2003-04 to 2007-08 £000 2003-04 to 2005-06 allocation round 2006-07 to 2007-08 allocation round 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08

Craven, Harrogate and 166,668 181,585 197,111 235,518 254,740 Rural District PCT Hambleton and 91,187 99,349 107,843 129,360 139,918 Richmondshire PCT Scarborough, Whitby 138,792 152,118 166,123 198,010 216,805 and Ryedale PCT Selby and York PCT 216,207 235,557 255,791 307,131 335,917 Total 612,855 668,610 726,867 870,019 947,379

Table 2: Recurrent revenue allocations made to North Yorkshire and York PCT 2008-09 to 2011-12 £000 2008-09 allocations 2009-10 to 2010-11 allocation round 2011-12 allocations 2008-09 recurrent revenue 2009-10 recurrent revenue 2010-11 recurrent revenue 2011-12 recurrent revenue allocation allocation allocation allocation

North Yorkshire 999,125 1,076,587 1,139,019 1,151,558 and York PCT Notes: 1. Allocations for 2006-07 and 2007-08 were announced for 303 PCTs on 9 February 2005. These became 152 PCTs on 1 October 2006 and involved the merger of the four PCTs in Table 1 that became North Yorkshire and York PCT. 2. Allocations are not always comparable between years because of changes to baseline funding. Source: Financial Planning and Allocations Division, Department of Health.

Nurses: Pay Mr Simon Burns: The starting salary of a newly qualified national health service nurse in England since Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for May 1997 is shown in the following table. Health what the average pay of an NHS nurse was in Qualified nurse starting salary: May 1997 to May 2011 (a) cash and (b) real terms in (i) May 1997 and (ii) £ May of each subsequent year. [65608] Starting pay—cash Starting pay—real Year terms1,2 terms 2011-12 prices Mr Simon Burns: The average pay of a qualified national health service nurse in England in the period 1997-98 312,230 17,234 requested is set out in the following table. 1998-99 312,630 17,429 Estimated earnings per full-time equivalent member of staff 1999-2000 14,400 19,489 £ 2000-01 14,890 19,891 Financial year Cash Real Terms 2001-02 15,445 20,181 1997-98 20,830 29,352 2002-03 16,005 20,260 1998-99 21,042 29,038 2003-04 16,525 20,344 1999-2000 22,329 30,220 2004-054 17,060 20,435 2000-01 23,427 31,295 2005-06 18,698 21,998 2001-02 24,733 32,317 2006-07 19,166 21,816 2002-03 25,702 32,535 2007-08 319,454 21,527 2003-04 26,342 32,430 2008-09 20,225 21,778 2004-05 27,697 33,176 2005-06 28,784 33,864 2009-10 20,710 21,943 2006-07 29,863 33,992 2010-11 21,176 21,790 2007-08 31,150 34,469 2011-12 21,176 21,176 2008-09 32,335 34,817 1 Starting pay for a newly qualified nurse is normally the minimum of 2009-10 33,378 35,364 the grade applicable to basic grade qualified nurses. The annual uplift Notes: date (unless staging applied) is 1 April. 1. These figures are estimated using NHS paybill data relating to 2 The grades applicable to basic grade qualified nurses in the years set entire financial years, with further adjustment to deduct employer out in the table are as follows: pension and national insurance costs, and data on work force numbers 1988-89 to 2004-05 D Grade from the NHS Census taken each September. 2005-06 to 2010-11 Agenda for Change Band 5 2. Real terms figures are based on 2011-12 prices. Figures given are for the minimum of these grades in the year in 3. Estimates relating specifically to May are unavailable for this question, as of 1 May. This excludes any staged increases. period. 3 Staged increase in the following years: 4. The latest available paybill data relate to 2009-10. 1997-98—Increased to £12,385 on 1 December 1997 1998-99—Increased to £12,855 on 1 December 1998 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08—Increased to £19,683 on 1 November 2007 4 The rate given is the D Grade rate as of May 2004, pre Agenda for Health what the starting salary of an NHS nurse was in Change. The effective implementation date for Agenda for Change (a) cash and (b) real terms in (i) May 1997 and (ii) was 1 October 2004. The minimum of Agenda for Change Band 5 May of each subsequent year. [65609] from that date was £18,114. 449W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 450W

Primary Care Trusts: Manpower Auschwitz-Birkenau Foundation’s Perpetual Fund

David Miliband: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr MacShane: To ask the Prime Minister how much Health how much has been spent on redundancies at the Government has donated to the Auschwitz- primary care trusts in (a) the North East and (b) Birkenau Foundation’s Perpetual Fund since the fund’s England since May 2010; how many previous employees inception. [65884] have been rehired elsewhere in the NHS; and how many temporary posts have been created by primary care Andrew Stunell: I have been asked to reply. trusts. [65587] The Department of Communities and Local Government and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office Mr Simon Burns: Data on the redundancy costs for have each contributed £1 million in 2011-12 to the 2010-11 are not yet available, as work on the accounts Auschwitz-Birkenau restoration fund. The Department and the audit is not yet complete. of Culture, Media and Sport will contribute a further £100,000 in 2013. The fund will ensure the consolidation, The NHS Summarised Accounts are currently expected restoration and long-term maintenance of the Auschwitz to be laid before Parliament in early September, and and Birkenau concentration camps. data will therefore be available from that date. Nationally, an estimated 145 national health service News Corporation staff were made redundant and subsequently re-employed by NHS organisations on a permanent basis between 1 April 2010 and 31 March 2011. During the same period, Steve Rotheram: To ask the Prime Minister how an additional estimated 90 staff were made redundant many conversations (1) he has had with (a) Mr Andy and subsequently re-employed on a fixed-term contract Coulson and (b) Rebekah Brooks on allegations of basis. phone hacking since 11 May 2010; [66086] Figures are not currently available for those staff (2) when he last met in his official capacity (a) Mr made redundant and rehired only from primary care James Murdoch, (b) Rebekah Brooks and (c) Mr trusts, nor those made redundant and rehired in the Andy Coulson. [66132] north-east due to technical problems with the Department’s reporting mechanism. I will write to the right hon. The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the Member very shortly with this information and a copy statement I made on 13 July 2011, Official Report, of the letter will be placed in the Library. columns 313-14 and the answer 1 gave to the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) on 13 July 2011, Official Report, columns 321-22. A list of my official meetings with external organisations PRIME MINISTER is published quarterly and can be found on the No. 10 website: Andy Coulson http://www.number10.gov.uk/transparency/who-ministers- are-meeting/

Helen Goodman: To ask the Prime Minister what the job description of Mr Andrew Coulson was during his employment at 10 Downing street. [66093] JUSTICE

The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation answer I gave on 2 June 2010, Official Report, column 37W. Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements Helen Goodman: To ask the Prime Minister what the (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department role was of each official who reported to Mr Andrew attended which were also attended by (A) representatives, Coulson during his employment at 10 Downing street. (B) journalists and (C) other employees of (1) News [66094] International and its subsidiary organisations including newspapers, (2) News Corporation and its subsidiary The Prime Minister: Mr Andrew Coulson had no line organisations and (3) BSkyB since 12 May 2010; [66133] management responsibility for any officials. (2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department Helen Goodman: To ask the Prime Minister whether attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew Mr Andrew Coulson had access to any classified Coulson (A) between 12 May 2010 and 21 January information relating to (a) security matters in Northern 2011 and (B) since 21 January 2011. [66136] Ireland, (b) police policy, (c) police operations and (d) police appointments; and whether he attended any meetings Mr Kenneth Clarke: As has been the practice of on these subjects. [66143] previous Administrations, information relating to internal meetings, discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s answer I gave on 13 July 2011, Official Report, statement to the House on 13 July 2011, Official Report, column 336W. columns 311-14. 451W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 452W

Community Orders Mr Kenneth Clarke: The unlawful obtaining or disclosure of personal data is an offence under s.55 of the Data Mike Wood: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Protection Act. The Ministry of Justice has been exploring whether a financial limit will be placed on contract bids ways of making the illegal obtaining and disclosure of for the purpose of tendering for unpaid work for personal data less lucrative, for example, through the offenders in England and Wales. [65954] use of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, under which unlawfully gained assets can be recovered. This was Mr Blunt: There will be no financial limit placed recently used successfully in connection with the upon a returned contract bid, but the authority will Information Commissioner’s prosecution of two offenders provide bidders with a contract threshold price. The who had sold customer information relating to mobile authority would expect bids to identify cost savings phone contracts. I have also asked the Sentencing Council (efficiencies) against existing operational arrangements to consider the production of a sentencing guideline on and to be affordable within MOJ/NOMS budgetary data protection offences, and we are keeping the question constraints. of greater penalties for such offences under review. I expect that these matters may be of relevance to the Mike Wood: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice inquiry to be chaired by Lord Justice Leveson. Draft what assessment he has made of the reasons for terms of reference for that inquiry have been placed in probation service confidentiality clauses in respect of the Library of the House. the tendering for unpaid work in England and Wales. [65956] Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if he will review the penalties provided for in Mr Blunt: All bidders in Community Payback mini- Section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1998. [66229] competitions are required to sign the confidentiality undertaking, accepting that they have a fiduciary duty Mr Kenneth Clarke: The Government are keeping the of care to the authority in respect of written and oral matter of penalties for offences committed under section information provided during the course of a competition. 55 of the Data Protection Act 1998 under review. This is usual practice and necessary to protect the Departmental Compensation integrity of the competition itself.

Mike Wood: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice who will be responsible for providing evidence to the pursuant to the answer of 22 March 2011, Official courts of a breach of unpaid work conditions Report, column 972W, on departmental compensation, following the completion of the tendering processes for what steps he is taking to reduce the need for his unpaid work in England and Wales. [65957] Department’s agencies and non-departmental public bodies to compensate the public for errors made. [63942] Mr Blunt: Following the Community Payback (unpaid work) competitions, probation trusts will continue to be Mr Kenneth Clarke: The following steps are being responsible for the presentation of uncontested breaches taken to reduce departmental compensation by the in court. In single unpaid work requirement cases in Department’s agencies and non-departmental public which a Community Payback provider is responsible bodies who have made compensation payments. for offender management, they will be required to submit The amount of claims received, the outcome and the evidence to support the breach action available to the type of error that has been made for each compensation relevant probation trust. claim is monitored. Feedback and training are given to the staff concerned. Where appropriate, changes to Courts: Enforcement policy, work practices and processes are made to improve service delivery. Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Complaints-handling processes have been restructured whether any private sector company responsible for within the Department to ensure all trends are better criminal court enforcement will be required to conduct captured and that action can be taken quickly to deal risk assessments on offenders. [66053] with any significant issues that arise. Further work is being done this year to develop this customer intelligence Mr Djanogly: Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals function and to better identify those areas where customer Service are developing a strategy for the enforcement of expectations are not being met. fines and how best to improve this in the future. This Judicial Review: Costs could include forming a partnership with a commercial partner. Details of any partnership with a commercial company to deliver enforcement functions for criminal Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for court fines or how a partnership might be run are not Justice how much his Department spent in each cost yet known. category on representation and related costs in relation to completed judicial reviews relating to inquests in each year since 2006-07. [66089] Data Protection Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice is not a party Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for to judicial review proceedings which name the coroner Justice what steps he proposes to take to prevent the as the defendant. Costs incurred during these proceedings unlawful trading of confidential personal information. will be met by the coroner’s local authority and the [66226] applicant bringing the proceedings. 453W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 454W

There are, however, some judicial reviews of inquests raised concerns around the company’s financial into deaths in prison custody where the National Offender management and claims irregularities and as such, the Management Service is represented as an interested Trustees of the IAS decided that the organisation had party. It has not, however, been possible to provide to enter into administration on 8 July 2011. expenditure for these cases as this information could The IAS’s current position reflects the company’s only be obtained by going through all invoices sent by past financial management and claims irregularities the Treasury Solicitor, who represents Government in and is not a direct consequence of the proposed legal such proceedings, which would be at disproportionate aid reforms, not least because these reforms have yet to cost. be implemented. It is the current and historic financial management failures, that have resulted in significant Legal Aid Scheme liabilities which IAS has found itself unable to meet. During recent negotiations with the Legal Services Mr Mark Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Commission, the IAS confirmed that they had plans in Justice what the cost to the public purse was of place to continue to operate after proposed legal aid unsuccessful cases supported by legal aid in (a) reforms were implemented and would be in a position 2008-09 and (b) 2009-10. [65911] to return a surplus of around £500,000 per annum. As such, this makes it clear that it is the debt owed to the Mr Djanogly: The information is shown in the following LSC that has placed the IAS into administration, not table: the as yet unimplemented reforms.

Total costs to civil legal aid Legal Aid Scheme: Immigration Financial year (£ million) 2008-09 284.50 Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2009-10 232.76 in how many cases his Department has provided legal aid for advice or assistance in relation to an application Mr Mark Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for for a visa to enter the UK (a) for the purposes of study Justice what proportion of clinical negligence and (b) under the points based system in each of the claimants supported by legal aid were identified as last three years; and what the total expenditure was in disabled in (a) 2007-08, (b) 2008-09 and 2009-10. each respect. [65482] [65913] Mr Djanogly: The Legal Services Commission (LSC) Mr Djanogly: The Legal Services Commission (LSC) did not record data on legal aid in relation to visas at a is able to provide this information and it is shown in the level which would enable them to say whether they were following table. Figures relate to civil representation for the purposes of study prior to May 2009. The LSC only. does not record data on whether the legal advice was provided for an application in relation to someone Proportion (percentage) entering the UK, or to someone already in the UK. The LSC provided 1,965 acts of assistance in relation 2007-08 46.3 to visa applications for the purposes of study in the 2008-09 45.6 calendar year 2010; the associated costs were £893,775, 2009-10 46.0 The LSC is unable to provide information on visa applications relating to the points based system, as it Mr Mark Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for does not record information in this way. Justice how many clinical negligence cases supported from public funds were investigated and not pursued Members: Correspondence beyond the investigation stage in (a) 2008-09 and (b) 2009-10; and how much was spent in legal aid for such Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for cases in each such year. [65914] Justice when he plans to answer the letter sent to him Mr Djanogly: The information requested is shown in by the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton on 1 the following table: June 2011 with regard to Mr W. Howe. [65670]

Volume Costs (£ million) Mr Kenneth Clarke: A reply has now been sent to the right hon. Member. I apologise for the delay. 2008-09 2,401 14.3 2009-10 2,016 13.0 Privacy

Mrs Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for what assessment he made of the effects of the Justice if he will ask the Information Commissioner to reduction in expenditure on legal aid on the ability of update his paper entitled, What price privacy now?, as the Immigration Advisory Service to carry out its a matter of urgency. [66228] functions; and if he will make a statement. [66236] Mr Kenneth Clarke: I understand that since his ‘What Mr Djanogly: The Legal Services Commission has price privacy now?’ report the Information Commissioner been working closely with Immigration Advisory Service has continued to prosecute offenders and raise public (IAS) for some time now following an audit which awareness of the unlawful trade in personal information. 455W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 456W

The Commissioner is independent of Government, this activity and NOMS would expect them to absorb and decisions on producing reports are entirely a matter any additional costs within their existing budgets. for him. Under the Data Protection Act 1998, and in Young Offenders: Remand in Custody addition to his Annual Report, the Information Commissioner may at any time lay reports before Parliament on his functions as he sees fit. Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice for what offence each person under the age of 18 held on remand was accused on the latest date for Probation which figures are available. [66098]

Mike Wood: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Blunt: Information held by the Youth Justice what the anticipated cost is to each probation trust in Board records the primary offence group for young England and Wales of tendering for unpaid work. people on custodial remand, on their Secure [65955] Accommodation Clearing House System (SACHS). The following table shows the 2009-10 average custody Mr Blunt: It is a matter for probation trusts to decide population of young people under 18-years-old, and whether to act as a prime bidder for the provision of held on remand by the primary offence group they were Community Payback (unpaid work). No separate funds charged with, including those who breached the conditions have been made available to probation trusts to support of their bail.

Offence group1 2009-10 average

Violence against the person 161 Sexual offences 32 Burglary 87 Robbery 156 Theft and handling stolen goods 24 Fraud and forgery 2 Criminal damage 15 Drug offences 40 Other indictable offences 27 Indictable motoring offences n/a Summary offences (excluding motoring) n/a Summary motoring offences n/a Total under 18 remand population by offence group2 587 n/a = not available2 1 As defined by Justice Statistics Analytical Services within the Ministry of Justice. 2 Some offence descriptions used by the Youth Justice Board SACHS system do not include sufficient detail to permit them to be assigned to a standard offence group used by the Ministry of Justice. The total in this table includes 45 juveniles where this is the case.

WALES James Brokenshire: The requested data on arrests are not collected centrally. Data on arrests are collected by Welfare State: Reform offence category, such as “violence against the person” and “drug offences”, and are not available at more specific levels such as “alcohol-related violence”. Data Owen Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales on the offence categories described above are published what assessment she has made of the conclusions and annually in chapter 1 of the Home Office Statistical recommendations of the report by Sheffield Hallam Bulletin “Police Powers and Procedures”. Current and university on the effects on Wales of the Government’s previous editions of this are available in the Library of proposed welfare reforms. [65470] the House.

Mr David Jones: I refer the hon. Member to the Asylum: Information and Communications Technology answer given by the Minister for Employment, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for the Grayling), today. Home Department what the cost to the public purse was, at current prices, of the Siemens computer system for processing asylum applications. [65629] Damian Green: The Home Department does not have HOME DEPARTMENT a contract with Siemens for a computer system to process asylum applications. Accordingly, there has been Alcoholic Drinks: Crime no cost to the public purse. Departmental Contracts Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people have been Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the arrested for alcohol-related violence in (a) Yo rk , (b) Home Department what the total monetary value is of North Yorkshire and (c) England in each year since contracts her Department holds with (a) Co sponsor, 2005. [65932] (b) Steria and (c) Blue Light Solutions. [65941] 457W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 458W

Damian Green: The Home Department and its Executive James Brokenshire: We are working closely with the Agencies has no recorded contracts with (a) Co Sponsor Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), National or (c) Blue Light Solutions. The total monetary value Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA), as well as the of contracts held with (b) Steria is £56 million. Forensic Science Service (FSS) board and other partners across the Criminal Justice System (CJS) to put in place Departmental Dismissal plans to maintain a sustainable operational and research capability within the forensics market both during and Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for the after the transition. We are committed to minimising Home Department how many officials in her Department the impact on the CJS and the continued provision of were dismissed for under-performance as a result of the effective forensics is a priority for the Home Office. procedures arising from her Department’s staff appraisal ACPO have been clear that the forensics market can system in each of the last three years. [64684] cope with the managed wind-down of the FSS. Feedback from the police and suppliers suggests that a managed Damian Green: The number of staff dismissed for wind-down will allow for an orderly transfer of capacity under-performance (inefficiency) is shown in table 1. that minimises the cost to the taxpayer and enables us This covers dismissals arising from both poor performance to manage the risks to the CJS. and poor attendance. The numbers relate to the Home Office, UK Border Agency, Identity and Passport Service Illegal Immigrants and Criminal Records Bureau in each of the last three financial years. Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for the Table 1: Number of staff dismissed for inefficiency Home Department how many people have overstayed Total number dismissed for inefficiency (poor attendance and poor their visa in each of the last six months for which data is performance) available; and of those, how many (a) have been identified and deported and (b) remain in the UK. [65958] 2010-11 42 2009-10 25 Damian Green: It is not possible to accurately quantify 2008-09 114 the number of overstayers in the UK as some deliberately 1 IPS are unable to provide data for 2008-09 due to changes in HR recording systems and the unavailability of records pre 2009. evade immigration control in order to remain in the country illegally. EU Justice and Home Affairs The e-Borders system enables checks to be made on individuals arriving or exiting the country at a majority Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home of the points of entry to the UK, but it is not yet fully Department what police and criminal justice rolled out. E-Borders is currently tracking around 55% instruments adopted under the pre-Lisbon treaty third of inbound and 60% of outbound passenger movements pillar arrangements would be liable to transfer to the to and from the UK. This equates to approximately 126 jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in 2014 million passengers a year on over 2,800 routes, and should the UK opt to accept the transfer at the end of includes over 90% of non-EU aviation passengers. The the transitional period granted under Article 10 Of Government are committed to increasing the number of Protocol 36 to the consolidated version of the treaty on UK ports undertaking exit checks to ensure that a more European Union. [65845] complete passenger travel history is recorded. This will enable provision of the information requested James Brokenshire [holding answer 13 July 2011]: to be developed as e-Borders is progressively rolled out. There are between 80 and 90 Acts currently in force that were adopted before 1 December 2009 under the We are however able to provide the number of identified Police and Criminal Judicial Co-operation chapter overstayers and of those how many have been subsequently (Title VI) of the treaty on the European Union. Article removed, between January 2011 and June 2011. 10(4) of the Protocol on Transitional Provisions (Protocol 36) to the treaty on the functioning of the Month Identified Removed European Union applies to these Acts. This list is January 2011 2,109 1,035 subject to change, as Acts that are repealed and February 2011 2,394 1,147 replaced or amended by new instruments cease to fall March 2011 2,767 1,381 within the scope of Protocol 36. In accordance with the April 2011 1,780 643 Minister for Europe’s written ministerial statement on May 2011 2,022 695 20 January 2011, Official Report, columns 51-52WS, June 2011 2,384 719 Parliament will be kept informed of developments. Total 13,456 5,620 Officials are currently liaising with the European Note: All figures quoted are internal management information only and are subject to institutions to establish a definitive list and the Government change. This information has not been quality assured under National Statistics have committed to providing this list to Parliament as protocols. soon as possible. John Hagee Forensic Science Service: Closure Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for the Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what assessment she has made Home Department what assessment she has made of of whether the admission to the UK of Pastor John the potential effects of the closure of the Forensic Hagee is conducive to the public good; and if she will Science Service on policing and justice. [65713] make a statement; [64735] 459W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 460W

(2) what discussions she has had with (a) Damian Green: The Government do not routinely representatives of foreign governments and (b) comment on individual exclusion cases but in this instance representatives of groups and organisations in the UK the Secretary of State for the Home Department, my about the forthcoming visit of Pastor John Hagee to right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs the UK. [64736] May), has considered it important to do so. Mr Salah has himself put details of his case into the public domain. Damian Green: It is Home Office policy not to comment Raed Salah was excluded from the UK on 23 June as routinely on individual cases. a result of numerous statements he had made, details of which were obtained from a variety of sources. Exclusion Knives: Crime and deportation decisions are confidential to the individual concerned, and operationally sensitive, and it is not our Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for the practice to consult widely in making the decision or to Home Department how many offences involving the inform others in a way which may breach that use of a knife were recorded in Blackpool North and confidentiality.Both decisions were based on an assessment Cleveleys constituency in each of the last three years. of whether Mr Salah had expressed views which fell [65838] within the scope of the Government’s published unacceptable behaviours policy. James Brokenshire: The Home Office holds data on The Secretary of State concluded that Mr Salah had knife and sharp instrument offences at police force area made a number of statements that were considered to level only. Data are therefore provided for the Lancashire be unacceptable behaviour. police force area. Young Offenders In 2007-08, Lancashire police recorded 374 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument for a select group Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for the of offences. These offences are homicide, attempted Home Department how many crimes were committed murder, grievous bodily harm (GBH) with intent, GBH by juvenile offenders in York in each year since 2005. without intent and robbery. [65931] In 2008-09 the offence coverage was expanded to also include actual bodily harm (ABH), threats to kill, sexual James Brokenshire: The information requested is not assault and rape offences. Therefore figures for 2008-09 collected centrally. It is not possible to identify the age and 2009-10 are not comparable with those offences of alleged offenders from the recorded crime statistics recorded in 2007-08. collected by the Home Office. In 2008-09, Lancashire police recorded 849 offences involving a knife or sharp instrument. The corresponding figure for 2009-10 was 632 offences. WORK AND PENSIONS 2010-11 data will be published on 14 July 2011. British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation

Members: Correspondence Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for in his Department attended which were also attended the Home Department when the Minister for by (A) representatives, (B) journalists and (C) other Immigration plans to answer the letter from the right employees of (1) News International and its subsidiary hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton of 31 May 2011 organisations including newspapers, (2) News with regard to Mrs H. Farhat. [65671] Corporation and its subsidiary organisations and (3) BSkyB since 12 May 2010; [66054] Damian Green: I wrote to the right hon. Member on (2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) 12 July 2011. Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew Raed Salah Coulson (A) between 12 May 2010 and 21 January 2011 and (B) since 21 January 2011. [66057] Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) what discussions she has had Chris Grayling: As has been the practice of previous with (a) representatives of foreign governments and administrations, information relating to internal meetings, (b) groups or organisations in the UK on the (i) discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. admittance to and (ii) presence in the UK of Raed I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s Salah; [65000] statement to the House of 13 July 2011, Official Report, (2) what allegations against Raed Salah she (a) columns 311-14. considered and (b) investigated in determining her Community Care Grants policy on her exclusion and deportation from the UK; and which of these allegations she considered to be Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for well-founded; [65086] Work and Pensions what discussions he has had with (3) for what reasons she made her determination that (a) Ministers in the Scottish Executive and (b) charities Raed Salah should be (a) excluded and (b) deported and non-governmental organisations on the replacement from the UK on the grounds that his presence was not of community care grants and crisis loans with local conducive to the public good. [65001] welfare assistance. [66159] 461W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 462W

Steve Webb: Ministers have had a number of meetings to deliver the application maintenance and support with Ministers in the Scottish Executive to discuss element of the Adams 2 contract from an offshore welfare reform including social fund reform. Since the location will form part of the review of plans to formation of the current Scottish Government no such increase the amount of work delivered by HP from meetings have taken place. However my noble Friend non-UK locations; if he will commission from HP an the Lord Freud spoke with Nicola Sturgeon, Deputy impact assessment of its plans to transfer work on this First Minister of Scotland, on 16 June 2011, and it is contract to an offshore location; and if he will make a expected that this call will be followed by further discussions. statement; [65999] I held a roundtable event with a number of non- (3) pursuant to the answer of 27 June 2011, Official government organisations in March 2011, and departmental Report, column 603W, on Hewlett Packard, whether officials are continuing to meet with these organisations. data security will form part of the review of plans to Departmental officials are also working closely with increase the amount of work delivered by Hewlett Packard their Scottish counterparts on their reform plans. from non-UK locations in respect of the application maintenance and support element of the Adams 2 Habitual Residence contract; and when he expects the review to be concluded. [66000] Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 20 June 2011, Chris Grayling: The Department is currently in discussion Official Report, columns 192-3W, on habitual residence, with HP regarding future Adams 2 plans. This review whether a person entitled to a benefit must be present in has not yet been concluded and specific proposals are the UK to receive it; what benefits are eligible to be paid not yet complete. to families and dependants not in the UK or persons who are working in the UK; and what the value is of All aspects of security, including access to any data that may be required, will be a part of this review. such benefits. [64028] Proposed offshore activities need to gain formal approval Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. against stringent DWP,CESG—the Information Assurance (IA) arm of GCHQ—and Cabinet Office requirements The main purpose of child benefit and the child tax before being permitted. credit is to support families living in the United Kingdom. Consequently, the general rules for both benefits do not The review is expected to conclude towards the end of provide for them to be paid in respect of children who the year when any specific discussions required with HP reside outside this country. will take place. However, both child benefit and the child tax credit The exact location and number of jobs needed by HP are “family benefits” under the European Community to deliver the required services and its impact on their (EC) social security co-ordinating regulations (EC staff in the UK is a matter for HP to determine. Regulations 883/2004 and 987/2009, previously EC Regulations 1408/71 and 574/72), which the United Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Kingdom has administered since it joined the European and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 27 June 2011, Economic Community in 1973. Under these EC regulations, Official Report, column 603W, on Hewlett Packard, nationals of other member states who are employed or when he last met representatives of Hewlett Packard to self-employed in the United Kingdom and are paying discuss the Adams 2 contract. [65998] compulsory national insurance contributions are entitled to claim child benefit and the child tax credit in respect Chris Grayling: The Department is currently in discussion of children resident in other member states. United with HP regarding future Adams 2 plans. Kingdom nationals who work and are compulsorily insured in another member state have reciprocal entitlement This review has not yet been concluded and specific to family benefits in that other state by virtue of the proposals are not yet complete. All aspects of security, same EC regulations. including access to any data that may be required, will The value of family benefits paid by the United be a part of this review. Proposed offshore activities Kingdom under the EC regulations is only available at need to gain formal approval against stringent DWP, disproportionate costs. This is because not all such CESG—the Information Assurance (IA) arm of GCHQ awards in respect of children resident in other member and Cabinet Office requirements before being permitted. states are made at the full United Kingdom rate of The review is expected to conclude towards the end of benefit. the year when any specific discussions required with HP will take place. I met with HP representatives last week Hewlett Packard The exact location and number of jobs needed by HP to deliver the required services and its impact on their Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work staff in the UK is a matter for HP to determine. and Pensions (1) whether he plans to conduct an assessment of the data security implications of the application by Hewlett Packard to move offshore the application maintenance and support elements of the Adams 2 Pensioners: Poverty contract that the company holds with his Department; [65861] Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and (2) pursuant to the answer of 27 June 2011, Official Pensions what his most recent estimate is of the level of Report, column 603W, on Hewlett Packard, whether pensioner poverty in rural communities in each of the the number of jobs required by Hewlett Packard (HP) next four financial years. [66366] 463W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 464W

Steve Webb: In recent years, the Department has not collected on the Family Resources Survey covering rurality in published assessments of future trends in pensioner Northern Ireland, it has not been possible to present figures for poverty. Currently, macroeconomic uncertainty and the the United Kingdom as a whole. Department’s significant programme of welfare and Social Security Benefits: Scotland pension reform mean that it is not possible to produce any reliable estimate of future trends in pensioner poverty. Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Estimates of pensioner poverty are published in the Work and Pensions what discussions he has had with Households Below Average Incomes series. The most Ministers in the Scottish Government on methods of commonly used measure of pensioner poverty relates to distribution of local welfare assistance in Scotland. those people with income below 60% of contemporary [66160] median household income, after housing costs. This is often referred to as relative poverty. Chris Grayling: The Secretary of State and DWP The latest data available from the Households Below Ministers have met with Scottish Ministers on a number Average Incomes for 2009-10, show that in England, of occasions to discuss a range of subjects including the after housing costs, the proportion of pensioners in introduction of a universal credit through a real time relative poverty is 16% in rural areas compared to 16% earnings system as per the Universal Credit White in urban areas. Paper and Welfare Reform Bill before parliament. For Wales, the latest data available from the Households Spotlight on Kinship Care Below Average Incomes for 2007-08 to 2009-10, shows that, after housing costs, the proportion of pensioners Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for in relative poverty is 17% in rural areas compared to Work and Pensions if he will review and respond to the 17% in urban areas. recommendations of the report of Buttle UK and the In England and Wales, the corresponding figures University of Bristol entitled Spotlight on Kinship based on 2009-10 data are 16% in rural areas compared Care, published in April 2011. [63447] to 16% in urban areas. Tim Loughton: I have been asked to reply. In Scotland, the corresponding figures based on 2007-08 to 2009-10 data are 14% in rural areas compared to 13% The Spotlight on Kinship Care study by the University cent in urban areas. of Bristol makes a very helpful contribution to our understanding about the numbers of informal family Notes: and friends carers and the circumstances in which they 1. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income are living. (HBAI) data sourced from the 2009-10 Family Resources Survey (FRS). This uses disposable household income, adjusted using Statutory guidance requires English local authorities modified OECD equivalisation factors for household size and with responsibility for children’s services to publish, no composition, as an income measure as a proxy for standard of later than 30 September 2011, a policy setting out their living. approach towards supporting the needs of children 2. Net disposable incomes have been used to answer the question. living with family and friends carers. The information This includes earnings from employment and self-employment, in the Spotlight on Kinship Care report should aid local state support, income from occupational and private pensions, authorities in doing this and help ensure that the needs investment income and other sources. Income tax, payments, of kinship care families are addressed in local service national insurance contributions, council tax/domestic rates and some other payments are deducted from incomes. delivery. 3. Figures have been presented on an after housing costs basis. State Retirement Pensions: York 4. All estimates are based on survey data and are therefore subject to a degree of uncertainty. Small differences should be treated Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Work with caution as these will be affected by sampling error and and Pensions how many people resident in (a) the City variability in non-response. of York local authority area and (b) York Central 5. The reference period for HBAI figures is the financial year. constituency were in receipt of (i) the basic state 6. Proportions of pensioners in low-income households have been pension and (ii) pension credit in (A) May 2010 and (B) rounded to the nearest percentage point. the latest date for which figures are available; and what 7. Three survey years have been combined for Scotland and Wales the average weekly value of pension credit received was because single year estimates are not considered to be sufficiently in each case. [65623] reliable. 8. Due to different definitions of rurality in Scotland compared Steve Webb: The information available is in the following to England and Wales, and the fact that no information is tables.

Recipients of state pension and pension credit in the York central parliamentary constituency

Average weekly amount of pension York parliamentary constituency State pension recipients Pension credit household recipients credit (£)

May 2010 15,480 3,910 50.73

November 2010 15,420 3,840 50.26

Recipients of state pension and pension credit in the city of York local authority area Average weekly amount of pension York local authority State pension recipients Pension credit household recipients credit (£)

May 2010 37,710 6,650 £49.80 465W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 466W

Recipients of state pension and pension credit in the city of York local authority area Average weekly amount of pension York local authority State pension recipients Pension credit household recipients credit (£)

November 2010 37,800 6,540 £49.18 Notes: 1. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. State pension figures are for the total state pension caseload. Around 1% of state pension recipients are not in receipt of the basic state pension, but are receiving additional state pension only or graduated retirement benefit only. 3. Pension credit household recipients are those people who claim pension credit either for themselves or on behalf of themselves and a partner. Source: DWP Information Directorate Work and Pensions Longitudinal Study 100% data

Winter Fuel Payments: Carmarthenshire Mr Vaizey: No assessment has been made.

Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mass Media: Privacy and Pensions how many households in Carmarthenshire received winter fuel payments in (a) 2009-10 and (b) Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010-11. [66278] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what representations he has received from the Information Steve Webb: The information for 2009-10 is available Commissioner on breaches of personal privacy by in the document Winter Fuel Payment (Number of media groups. [66227] Households) 2009-2010 by local authority and gender. This is available in the Commons Library and on the Mr Vaizey: No representations have been received. internet at: Royal Parks http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=wfp Information for 2010-11 is not currently available. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the answer of 16 June 2011, Official Report, column 888W, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT on the Royal Parks, what steps the Royal Parks take to Broadband support considerate cycling. [65892]

Mark Tami: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, John Penrose: The Royal Parks has issued advice Olympics, Media and Sport in the event that a 4G encouraging considerate cycling, including publishing a spectrum licence does not provide for a 99 per cent. code of conduct. It has also held a series of free public population coverage obligation, what measures he plans cycling events across the estate to promote safe cycling. to take to ensure that those consumers who cannot Over the past three years, the agency has improved and receive superfast broadband will be offered broadband increased the amount of cycling routes, and now provides by an alternate technology. [65511] 27 miles of off road cycle routes, and 32 miles of park roads. Mr Vaizey: The Government are committed to ensuring that the UK has the best superfast broadband network Tourism: VAT in Europe by stimulating private investment to ensure superfast broadband to 90% of all UK premises and Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for standard broadband to virtually all communities by 2015. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on Broadband: Scotland the effect on the (a) tourism, (b) heritage and (c) sporting industries of the increase in the rate of value Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for added tax. [65714] Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent discussions he has had with Scottish Ministers regarding the roll-out John Penrose: I regularly meet with the Chancellor of of superfast broadband in Scotland. [65481] the Exchequer to discuss a wide range of issues. However, VAT is a matter for Her Majesty’s Treasury. Mr Vaizey: I have had regular discussions with Scottish Government Ministers regarding the roll-out of superfast Video Games broadband in Scotland. The Government are supporting the Scottish Government to deliver superfast broadband to 90% of all premises in Scotland and standard broadband Jim McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for to virtually all communities by 2015. I have also had Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps his similar communications with Wales and Northern Ireland Department has taken to support the computer games Ministers. industry. [66026] Broadband: YouView Mr Vaizey: The Plan for Growth, published with Budget 2011, outlined the Government’s aim to create Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for the right overall business environment to support the Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment growth of UK companies, including video games businesses. he has made of the potential effects of the introduction The Plan for Growth also announced that industry will of YouView on demand for high speed broadband. be establishing a Creative Industry Council. The [65644] Government are supportive of this step. 467W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 468W

The Council will look at barriers to growth for the allow the distribution of assets received as bona sector, which may include access to finance, skills, export vacantia to (a) the location in which the deceased markets, intellectual property, innovation and infrastructure. person lived and (b) wards in the top 10 per cent. of In addition, the Department for Culture, Media and disadvantaged communities as set out in the Index of Sport (DCMS) is also working with a number of other Multiple Deprivation; and if he will make a statement. Government Departments to ensure their range of support [65731] for business, such as R and D tax credits and Government- backed funds, including the UK Innovation and Investment Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. Fund and Enterprise Capital Funds, is accessible to the Surplus bona vacantia income available to the UK games industry. Government are passed to the Consolidated Fund to Specifically, the Government are giving £2.5 million benefit the general Exchequer. It therefore indirectly of grant support to the University of Abertay to create benefits numerous organisations and locations. There a new games prototyping programme, including a UK-wide are no plans to change the current system. £2 million fund launched in July 2010. There are also discretionary grants from the Technology Strategy Board for collaborative R and D and feasibility studies. Following Departmental Billing the publication of the NextGen review of the skills for the video games and visual effects industries, the Government are currently considering recommendations Mr Denham: To ask the Attorney-General how many and DCMS will issue its formal response in the summer. invoices received by the Law Officers’ Departments have been paid (a) on time and (b) late in each month ATTORNEY-GENERAL since May 2010; and what the monetary value was of invoices paid late. [62493] Bona Vacantia Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Attorney-General if he The Solicitor-General: The latest available information will consider bringing forward legislation which would is outlined in the following tables.

Treasury Solicitor’s Department Month Number paid within 30 days Number paid over 30 days Value of invoices paid over 30 days

May 2010 1,813 741 622,435 June 2010 1,895 933 843,949 July 2010 2,222 918 836,246 August 2010 1,550 684 617,271 September 2010 2,061 882 635,506 October 2010 1,807 677 504,821 November 2010 2,011 954 886,067 December 2010 2,053 723 585,109 January 2011 2,195 688 347,769 January 2011 1,948 618 306,108 March 2011 3,049 781 376,779 April 2011 1,477 332 25,527

Attorney-General’s Office Month Number paid within 30 days Number paid over 30 days Value of invoices paid over 30 days

May 2010 40 3 6,158 June 2010 47 1 306 July 2010 44 0 — August 2010 41 3 2,475 September 2010 39 0 — October 2010 44 0 — November 2010 35 4 13,960 December 2010 45 1 832 January 2011 50 2 445 January 2011 52 0 — March 2011 52 2 249 April 2011, 30 0 —-

HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate Month Number paid within 30 days Number paid over 30 days Value of invoices paid over 30 days

May 2010 100 1 93 June 2010 35 — — July 2010 169 4 5,527 August 2010 84 2 155 September 2010 78 2 1,888 October 2010 66 2 2,445 469W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 470W

HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate Month Number paid within 30 days Number paid over 30 days Value of invoices paid over 30 days

November 2010 56 3 1,442 December 2010 145 9 861 January 2011 59 11 3,865 January 2011 129 6 3,542 March 2011 95 4 793 April 2011 78 7 45,785

Crown Prosecution Service Month Number paid within 30 days Number paid over 30 days Value of invoices paid over 30 days

May 2010 20,705 2,937 3,121,313 June 2010 23,435 3,820 3,295,145 July 2010 22,342 3,419 3,432,075 August 2010 22,671 2,617 3,315,611 September 2010 23,561 2,633 2,518,926 October 2010 21,573 3,734 3,374,824 November 2010 23,734 3,927 3,308,077 December 2010 17,454 2,782 1,833,391 January 2011 20,079 3,469 2,847,605 January 2011 24,508 3,632 3,625,296 March 2011 25,889 2,691 2,987,154 April 2011 18,273 1,454 1,165,893

Serious Fraud Office Month Number paid within 30 days Number paid over 30 days Value of invoices paid over 30 days

May 2010 727 67 294,120 June 2010 953 56 267,084 July 2010 667 41 106,980 August 2010 654 61 212,787 September 2010 560 66 704,126 October 2010 806 38 138,147 November 2010 619 70 367,846 December 2010 521 48 215,659 January 2011 563 39 164,407 January 2011 526 28 40,469 March 2011 909 43 116,820 April 2011 590 33 40,311

Departmental Freedom of Information Number of requests

2006-07 13 Chris Ruane: To ask the Attorney-General how many 2007-08 6 requests under the provisions of the Freedom of 2008-09 2 Information Act 2000 the Law Officers’ Departments 2009-10 10 received from (a) hon. Members from each political 2010-11 8 (b) party and members of the public in each year since None of the Law Officers’ Departments collect statistics the Act’s entry into force. [63587] specifically about the background of individual requesters. This is because the Freedom of Information Act is applicant and motive blind and it is therefore not necessary The Solicitor-General: The number of requests received to record or determine whether a requestor is a Member by the Law Officers’ Departments from members of the of Parliament or a member of the public. public in each year since the Act’s entry into force is The Attorney-General’s Office (AGO) has however available from the Ministry of Justice website: identified some records about requests originating from http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/foi/ MPs; but it should be noted that these figures may not implementation.htm represent all requests from MPs as we only record those that are clearly identified in our records as coming from These statistics cover the period from implementation an MP. to 31 March 2011. Statistics for the period from 1 April 2011 will be published in the quarterly statistics from AGO-FOI requests from Members of Parliament by party (January 2006 to the Ministry of Justice in due course. May 2011) Party 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 The Ministry of Justice figures do not cover the HM Labour — — 1 — 9 0 Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate. The number Conservative — 1 — — 1 — of requests received by them since 2006 are recorded in LibDem1 4———— the following table. 471W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 472W

AGO-FOI requests from Members of Parliament by party (January 2006 to The Department has a procedure for maintaining May 2011) satisfactory standards of performance comprising a Party 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 number of warnings which could result in disciplinary Total1 510100action and ultimately lead to dismissal for poor- performance.

Enterprise Zones COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation Communities and Local Government whether he will take into account (a) sub-regional unemployment figures, Stephen Pound: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) levels of pay and (c) skill levels when considering Communities and Local Government (1) what (a) meetings applications for the next round of enterprise zones. and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special [64947] advisers in his Department attended which were also attended by (A) representatives, (B) journalists and (C) Greg Clark [holding answer 11 July 2011]: The other employees of News International and its subsidiary Government will assess how proposed enterprise zones organisations including newspapers since 12 May 2010; can best deliver local growth and jobs. [66061] As set out in the guidance published on 27 May 2011, (2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) the assessment of bids will focus on three criteria: the Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department extent to which the bid will deliver growth; the value for attended which were also attended by (A) representatives, the money of the bid; and if the plans for delivery are (B) journalists and (C) other employees of News robust. Corporation and its subsidiary organisations since 12 May 2010; [66062] Fire Services: Finance (3) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department attended which were also attended by (A) representatives, Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for (B) journalists and (C) other employees of BSkyB since Communities and Local Government what the percentage change is in his Department’s grant to each 12 May 2010; [66168] precepting fire and rescue authority between 2010-11 (4) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) and 2011-12. [64889] Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew Coulson (A) between 12 May 2010 and 21 January 2011 and (B) Robert Neill [holding answer 11 July 2011]: Figures since 21 January 2011. [66169] for year-on-year changes in Formula Grant in 2011-12 compared with adjusted 2010-11 figures, from which Robert Neill: As has been the practice of previous percentage changes can be obtained for single-tier Fire Administrations information relating to internal meetings, and Rescue authorities, are available at: discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/1112/ 1112chngs.xls I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s statement to the House of 13 July 2011, Official Report, Details of changes in the revenue spending power for columns 311-14. all authorities including Fire and Rescue authorities from 2010-11 to 2011-12 are also available, at: Departmental Dismissal http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/1112/ spannexas.xls Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Inequalities Communities and Local Government how many officials in his Department were dismissed for under-performance as a result of the procedures arising from his Department’s Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State staff appraisal system in each of the last three years. for Communities and Local Government what [64690] assessment he has made of the outcome of the Marmot Review into health inequalities in England; and if he Robert Neill: The Department for Communities and will make a statement. [66171] Local Government (DCLG) has not dismissed any official for under-performance as a result of the procedures Robert Neill: The Department for Communities and arising from the Department’s appraisal system in each Local Government has not made an individual assessment of the last three years. of the outcome of the Marmot Review on health DCLG makes a distinction between under-performance inequalities. We have worked closely with other Departments and poor-performance. Under-performance occurs where on the public health reforms and through the Public the job holder contributes notably less than can be Health Sub-Committee to ensure a cross government reasonable expected of the grade, while poor-performance approach in addressing the social determinants of health is defined as a consistent or repeated failure by a inequalities. The public health consultation ran until member of staff to carry out effectively the requirement 31 March 2011 and the Government will be responding of their job. in due course. 473W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 474W

Homelessness Robert Neill: The work of the Local Government Resource Review has been taken forward by existing Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for teams within the Department for Communities and Communities and Local Government what assessment Local Government, alongside their existing policy his Department has made of likely levels of homelessness responsibilities. Taking account of support from legal in the next five years; and if he will make a statement. and analyst colleagues, 14 officials have been involved [65571] in the substantive work of the review at various times. In addition, support has been provided by three additional Grant Shapps: This Department has not made forecasts members of staff, one of whom is employed by HM for future levels of homelessness. Treasury but who is co-located with this Department.

Housing: Older People Local Government: Debts

Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Nigel Mills: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps his Communities and Local Government how much interest Department is taking to encourage and promote the on debt has been paid by each local authority in England provision of specialist homes for older people moving in (a) 2009-10 and (b) 2010-11; and what estimate he to reside in a smaller home who wish to remain has made of interest on debt that will be paid by each homeowners. [R] [65953] local authority in England in 2011-12. [65788] Andrew Stunell: Current national planning policy for Robert Neill: I have today placed in the Library of the housing makes clear that local planning authorities House a table that gives information on interest payable should carry out a strategic housing market assessment and similar charges by each local authority in England to provide information on the level of needs and demand for outturn 2009-10 and budget estimates for 2010-11 for housing in their area. The housing requirements of and 2011-12. older people should be included in these assessments. Based on the requirements identified, planning authorities should develop policies and implementation strategies Local Government: Procurement to ensure that sufficient, suitable land is made available to achieve their housing objectives. Clear local housing Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for policies can encourage developers to bring forward Communities and Local Government what guidance proposals for housing which reflect market demand and his Department issues to local authorities regarding the the needs of different households, including older promotion of local businesses and employment in their households. procurement policies. [66142] The forthcoming National Planning Policy Framework consultation will cover all forms of development. This Robert Neill: Procurement in local government is a will include policy on planning for housing. matter for local discretion. My Department does not prescribe to local authorities how they should promote Local Government Finance local businesses and employment in their procurement policies. Government are, though, committed to Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for encouraging a more open and level playing field for Communities and Local Government how much his small and medium enterprises to bid for contracts. In Department and its public bodies have spent on the February, the Prime Minister launched a new, free-to-use firms (a) Poisson Rouge and (b) Red Fish Corporation online Contracts Finder portal and simplified pre- in each of the last five years for which figures are qualification questionnaire to make it easier and cheaper available; and for what purpose in each case. [59218] for small and medium enterprises to bid for public sector opportunities. Robert Neill: I refer my hon. Friend to my answer of DCLG has also recently consulted on new statutory 13 July 2011, Official Report, column 361W. guidance on Best Value (the consultation closed on £3,417.71 was paid to Poisson Rouge, an events 14 June). It makes clear that councils should seek to management company who arranged the venue and avoid making disproportionate reductions to small and team building. medium enterprises and the voluntary and community The Department’s finance system has made no records sector. of other payments to (a) Poisson Rouge or (b) Red The new Code of Recommended Practice for Local Fish Corporation in each of the last five years. Details Authorities on Data Transparency will also ensure greater of expenditure by the Department’s public bodies are accountability and scrutiny on the awarding of contracts not held centrally and could be supplied only at over £500. disproportionate cost. Local Government Resource Review Non-domestic Rates: Durham

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State Communities and Local Government how many officials for Communities and Local Government what in his Department (a) are working on the local government assessment he has made of the effect on the revenues of resources review and (b) have been seconded to HM Durham county council of localising business rates. Treasury to work on the review. [65961] [66170] 475W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 476W

Robert Neill: No assessment has been made of the EDUCATION effect on the revenues of Durham county council of localising business rates. The Local Government Resource Departmental Regulation Review has been considering options to allow local authorities to keep at least a proportion of their business Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for rates. The review will be publishing shortly its proposals Education how many regulations that impose costs on for consultation. businesses his Department has (a) introduced and (b) The Government have been clear that any proposals removed since 1 September 2010; what the net effect on will ensure that all councils will have adequate resources the costs on businesses of such introductions and to meet the needs of their local community. As the removals was; and what regulations have been excluded Deputy Prime Minister recently said to the Local from the one-in one-out system because they address (i) Government Association’s annual conference, no local emergencies and (ii) systemic financial risks since authority will receive less funding when the new 1 September 2010. [65336] arrangements are introduced than they would have Tim Loughton: In the period between 1 September done under the previous funding system. 2010 and 12 July 2011, the Department for Education made five statutory instruments which imposed costs on business. In the case of these five statutory instruments, Recycling: Schools impact assessments were carried out which identified the likely costs implications associated with their implementation. These impact assessments can be viewed Michael Fallon: To ask the Secretary of State for using the links provided. Communities and Local Government what guidance he The Breaks for Carers of Disabled Children Regulations 2011: issues to local authorities on the practice of charging http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2010/9780111503850/ schools for recycling. [66091] pdfs/ukdsiem_9780111503850_en.pdf Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector of Education, Children’s Services and Skills (Fees and Frequency of Inspections) (Children’s Homes Robert Neill: My Department has not issued any etc.) (Amendment) Regulations 2011: guidance to local authorities on the practice of charging http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/553/pdfs/ schools for recycling. uksiem_20110553_en.pdf The School Finance (England) Regulations 2011: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/371/pdfs/ Social Rented Housing uksiem_20110371_en.pdf The Visits to Former Looked After Children in Detention (England) Regulations Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010: Communities and Local Government how much his http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2797/pdfs/uksiem Department spent on new social housing for rent in (a) _20102797_en.pdf the City of York and (b) England in each year since The Childcare (Fees) (Amendment) Regulations 2010: 2005; and how much it expects to spend for such http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/307/pdfs/uksiem purposes in each year of the comprehensive spending _20100307_en.pdf review period. [65613] None of the statutory instruments which were revoked by the Department between 1 September 2010 and 12 July 2011 imposed any costs on business. Andrew Stunell: The following table shows the grant The one-in, one-out regulatory management system, funding through the Homes and Communities Agency’s although announced in September 2010, did not come National Affordable Housing Programme, Local Authority into force until January 2011. A list of regulatory measures New Build Programme and Kickstart programme for introduced or removed in the first half of 2011 can be social rent in each financial year in the City of York found in the Statement of New Regulation in the Libraries local authority area and in England. This includes both of the House. new build and acquisition and refurbishment. None of the statutory instruments which have been £ million made or revoked by the Department since January 2011 Period City of York England has been excluded from the one-in, one-out regulatory management system on the basis that they either addressed 2005-06 0.87 933 (i) emergencies, or (ii) systemic financial risks. 2006-07 0.83 1,433 2007-08 2.44 1,552 2008-09 6.36 2,038 CABINET OFFICE 2009-10 1.41 2,992 British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation 2010-11 3.58 2,110 Paul Blomfield: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Source: Homes and Communities Agency Office (1) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department We are investing nearly £4.5 billion to help deliver up attended which were also attended by (A) representatives, to 150,000 affordable homes for Affordable Rent and (B) journalists and (C) other employees of (1) News Affordable Home Ownership in England from 2011-12 International and its subsidiary organisations including to 2014-15. Figures for individual authorities are not newspapers, (2) News Corporation and its subsidiary yet available. organisations and (3) BSkyB since 12 May 2010; [66164] 477W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 478W

(2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) women and (c) people in York were in (i) May 1997 and (ii) May Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department of each subsequent year (A) in cash terms and (B) at constant attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew prices. (65675) Coulson (A) between 12 May 2010 and 21 January Average levels of earnings are estimated from the Annual 2011 and (B) since 21 January 2011; [66166] Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), and are provided for all employees on adult rates of pay whose pay for the survey period Mr Maude: As has been the practice of previous was not affected by absence. The ASHE, carried out in April each administrations information relating to internal meetings, year, is the most comprehensive source of earnings information in discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. the United Kingdom I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s The following tables show the median gross weekly earnings statement to the House of 13 July 2011, Official Report, for full-time employees in York in April each year from 1997 to columns 311-14. 2010 and also these estimates expressed in 2010 prices by using the Retail Price Index as a price deflator. Government Departments: Procurement Median gross weekly earnings for full-time employee jobs1 in York in April for years 1997 to 2010 Chi Onwurah: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet £ Office what guidance his Department offers to Government Full-time Departments on the promotion of local businesses and Men Women All employment in their procurement policies. [66138] 1997 *363 *235 *297 Mr Maude: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I 1998 *372 *250 323 gave her on 27 June 2011, Official Report, column 629W. Contracting authorities are required to treat 1999 *382 *267 *340 suppliers from across the UK and from the EU and 2000 *403 *286 368 various other countries on an equal footing. 2001 *402 *303 372 Authorities cannot prescribe the deployment of local 2002 448 *306 *400 labour, although clearly for some types of contract, 2003 *446 *335 405 such as those requiring face-to-face services, locally-based 2004 *460 *342 *419 labour is more likely. 2005 *454 *356 414 New Businesses: Romsey 2006 481 *391 451 2007 *500 *393 *462 Caroline Nokes: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 2008 *483 **398 *462 Office how many business start-ups there have been in Romsey and Southampton North constituency since 22 2009 *527 *400 *476 June 2010. [66446] 2010 *505 *447 *479

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Full-time earnings at 2010 prices2 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have £ asked the authority to reply. Men Women All

Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2011: 1997 518 335 424 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I 1998 510 342 442 have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking 1999 516 360 458 how many business start-ups there have been in Romsey and 2000 528 375 482 Southampton North constituency since 22 June 2010. [66446] 2001 517 391 479 Annual statistics on the number of enterprise births are available 2002 568 388 507 from the ONS release on Business Demography at: 2003 548 412 497 www.statistics.gov.uk 2004 552 411 503 However, unfortunately these statistics are not available for 2010. 2005 527 414 482 The latest data for business births are for 2009. 2006 545 443 511 2007 542 426 501 Pay: York 2008 503 415 481 2009 555 421 501 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 2010 505 447 479 Office what the average weekly gross earnings of full-time 1 Employees on adult rates whose pay for the survey pay-period was not affected (a) men, (b) women and (c) people in York were in (i) by absence. 2 Estimates of earnings at 2010 prices have been derived using the Retail Prices May 1997 and (ii) May of each subsequent year (A) in Index as the price deflator. cash terms and (B) at constant prices. [65675] Guide to Quality: The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5% we responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. asked the authority to reply. Key: CV<=5% Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated July 2011: * CV >5% and <= 10% ** CV > 10% and <=20% As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I CV = Coefficient of Variation have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking Source: what the average weekly gross earnings of full-time (a) men, (b) Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), Office for National Statistics 479W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 480W

TREASURY Justine Greening: The details requested can be found in HM Treasury’s 2010-11 annual report and accounts, chapter 9, remuneration report, HC984. British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation Departmental Regulation

Luciana Berger: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Umunna: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) how many regulations that impose costs on businesses Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department his Department (a) introduced and (b) removed in the attended which were also attended by (A) representatives, six months prior to 1 September 2010; and what the net (B) journalists and (C) other employees of (1) News effect on the costs on businesses of such introductions International and its subsidiary organisations, including and removals was. [65402] newspapers, (2) News Corporation and its subsidiary Justine Greening: In the six months prior to 1 September organisations and (3) BSkyB since 12 May 2010; [66069] 2010, the Treasury introduced one regulation which (2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) imposed costs on business: The Debt Relief (Developing Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department Countries) Act 2010. The average costs to business were attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew Coulson estimated to be £26 million a year over six years, with (A) between 12 May 2010 and 21 January 2011 and (B) direct benefits of between zero and £26 million a year to since 21 January 2011. [66071] heavily indebted poor countries. In the six months prior to 1 September 2010, the Justine Greening: As has been the practice of previous Treasury did not revoke any regulations that imposed Administrations information relating to internal meetings, costs on business. discussions and advice is not normally disclosed. I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s Mr Umunna: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer statement to the House on 13 July 2011, Official Report, how many regulations his Department has introduced columns 311-14. (a) in the six months prior to 1 September 2010 and (b) in the six months after 1 September 2010 which it has determined do not impose costs on businesses. Departmental Redundancy [65403] Justine Greening: In the six months (a) prior to and Mr Redwood: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (b) after 1 September 2010 the Treasury has introduced how much (a) his Department and (b) each non- the following statutory instruments which do not impose departmental body for which he is responsible has spent costs on business: on redundancies since May 2010. [66333] (a) Introduced before 1 September 2010:

Statutory instrument number Title Date made

2010/2220 The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Contribution to Costs of Special Resolution Regime) Regulations 7 September 2010 2010 2010/1880 The International Monetary Fund (Limit on Lending) Order 2010. This Order is not regulatory. 21 July 2010 2010/1197 The Al-Qaida and Taliban (Asset-Freezing) Regulations 2010 7 April 2010

(b) Introduced after 1 September 2010:

Statutory instrument number Title Date made

2011/548 The Libya (Financial Sanctions) Order 28 February 2011 2010/2937 The Iran (European Union Financial Sanctions) Regulations 2010 9 December 2010 2010/2956 The Somalia (Asset-Freezing) Regulations 2010 13 December 2010 2010/2613 The Iran (European Community Financial Sanctions)(Amendment) Regulations 2010 27 October 2010 2010/2628 The Capital Requirements (Amendment) Regulations 2010 28 October 2010 2010/3023 The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Administration Orders Relating to Insurers) Order 2010 18 December 2010 2011/239 The Investment Bank (Amendment of Definition) Order 2011 7 February 2011 2011/245 The Investment Bank Special Administration Regulations 2011 7 February 2011 2010/2578 (S.5) The Bank Administration (Scotland) (Amendment) Rules 2010 21 October 2010 2010/2583 The Bank Administration (England and Wales) (Amendment) Rules 2010 20 October 2010 2010/2586 The Bank Insolvency (Scotland) (Amendment) Rules 2010 (S.7) 21 October 2010 2010/2579 The Bank Insolvency (England and Wales) (Amendment) Rules 2010 20 October 2010 2010/2854 (S.6) The Building Society Insolvency (Scotland) Rules 2010 21 October 2010 2010/2581 The Building Society Insolvency (England and Wales) Rules 2010 20 October 2010 2010/2580 The Building Society Special Administration (England and Wales) Rules 20 October 2010 2011/133 The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Regulated Activities) (Amendment) Order 2011 25 January 2011 2010/2479 The Premium Savings Bonds (Amendment etc) Regulations 2010 11 October 2010 481W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 482W

Mr Umunna: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer one-out system because they address (i) emergencies how many regulations that impose costs on businesses and (ii) systemic financial risks since 1 September 2010. his Department has (a) introduced and (b) removed [65406] since 1 September 2010; what the net effect on the costs on businesses of such introductions and removals was; Justine Greening: Since 1 September 2010, the Treasury and what regulations have been excluded from the one-in has (a) introduced and (b) revoked the following regulations which impose costs on business:

(a) Introduced SI number Name of regulation introduced Costs/benefits

No. 2010/2993 The Financial Markets and Insolvency (Settlement Finality and £0.5 million transitional costs, estimated £15 billion benefits, based Financial Collateral Arrangements) (Amendment) Regulations on EU Commission Impact Assessment. Equivalent annual net 2010: EU directive not in scope of One In One Out benefit to business > £1 billion

No. 2011/99 The Electronic Money Regulations 2011: EU directive, not in £1 million transitional costs, £7 million transitional benefits. £0.7 scope of One In One Out million Equivalent Annual Net benefit to business over 10 years The Terrorist Asset-Freezing Act 2010 The costs imposed by this Act replicate the costs removed by the revocation of SIs 2001/3365, 2203/1297, 2005/1525, 2006/2657, 2009/1747, 2009/1911 so there was no net effect on business

(b) Revoked Statutory instrument number Name of regulation revoked Costs/savings

No. 2011/883 The Friendly Societies (Proxy Voting) Regulations 1993 Savings of £10.2 million per year in conjunction with the Mutual Societies (Electronic Communications) Order 2011 The Friendly Societies (Proxy Voting) Regulations 2011 revoked The Friendly Societies (Proxy Voting) Regulations 1993 (as of 1 October 2011), but all the provisions in the 1993 regulations were included with amendments to allow electronic communications

(S.I. 2001/3365) Terrorism (United Nations Measures) Order 2001 The costs removed by this revocation were replaced by the Terrorist Asset Freezing Act 2010

(S.I.2003/1297) Terrorism (United Nations Measures) Order 2001 (Amendment) The costs removed by this revocation were replaced by the Terrorist Regulations 2003 Asset Freezing Act 2010

(S.I. 2005/1525) Terrorism (United Nations Measures) Order 2001(Amendment) The costs removed by this revocation were replaced by the Terrorist Regulations 2005 Asset Freezing Act 2010

(S.I. 2006/2657) Terrorism (United Nations Measures) Order 2006 The costs removed by this revocation were replaced by the Terrorist Asset Freezing Act 2010

(S.I. 2009/1747) Terrorism (United Nations Measures) Order 2009 The costs removed by this revocation were replaced by the Terrorist Asset Freezing Act 2010

(S.I. 2009/1911) Financial Restrictions Proceedings (UN Terrorism Orders) Order The costs removed by this revocation were replaced by the Terrorist 2009 Asset Freezing Act 2010

(i) Since 1 September 2010, my Department has introduced the following regulation which was excluded from the one in one out system because it was an emergency:

Name of regulation Costs/benefits

2011/548 The Libya (Financial Sanctions) Order Minimal costs on business

A number of asset freezing regulations introduced (ii) Since 1 September 2010, my Department has dealt with emergency situations; however these were introduced the following Statutory Instruments which exempt from the one in one out system because they have been excluded from the one in one out system were EU related measures. because they address systemic financial risk.

Systemic financial risk SI number Name of regulation Costs/benefits

2010/3023 The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Administration No net cost to business Orders Relating to Insurers) Order 2010 2011/239 The Investment Bank (Amendment of Definition) Order 2011 No net cost to business 483W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 484W

Systemic financial risk SI number Name of regulation Costs/benefits

2011/245 The Investment Bank Special Administration Regulations 2011 No net cost to business

2010/2220 The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (Contribution to No net cost to business Costs of Special Resolution Regime) Regulations 2010

2010/2578 (S.5) The Bank Administration (Scotland) (Amendment) Rules 2010 No net cost to business

2010/2583 The Bank Administration (England and Wales) (Amendment) No net cost to business Rules 2010

2010/2586 (S.7) The Bank Insolvency (Scotland) (Amendment) Rules 2010 No net cost to business

2010/2579 The Bank Insolvency (England and Wales) (Amendment) Rules No net cost to business 2010

2010/2854 (S.6) The Building Society Insolvency (Scotland) Rules 2010 No. No net cost to business

2010/2581 The Building Society Insolvency (England and Wales) Rules 2010 No net cost to business

2010/2580 The Building Society Special Administration (England and Wales) No net cost to business Rules 2010

2011/1301 The Investment Bank Special Administration (England and No net cost to business Wales) Rules 2011

2010/2628 The Capital Requirements (Amendment) Regulations 2010 No net cost to business

No. 2010/2993 The Financial Markets and Insolvency (Settlement Finality and £0.5 million transitional costs, estimated £15 billion benefits, Financial Collateral Arrangements) (Amendment) Regulations based on EU Commission Impact Assessment. Equivalent annual 2010 net benefit to business > £1 billion

Departmental Visits Abroad Justine Greening: The Government are committed to addressing fuel poverty, notably by introducing the Warm Home Discount to assist more of the most Caroline Lucas: To ask the Chancellor of the vulnerable households with their energy bills and Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 6 July 2011 introducing the Green Deal from 2012 so that households Official Report, columns 1241-2W, to the hon. Member and businesses can improve their energy efficiency at no for Glasgow North, on Bilderberg Group, when he will upfront cost, repaying through their savings on energy post on his departmental website data of expenditure bills. on official overseas visits up to the end of June 2011. [65717] Financial Services: Taxation Justine Greening: The Department has committed to publish details of all Ministers meetings, hospitality Chris Leslie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer and overseas travel. This is in accordance with the when he next expects to discuss the proposal for a Government’s transparency agenda. financial activities tax with his (a) EU and (b) other Details of the costs of overseas travel are published international counterparts. [65862] quarterly on the Treasury website on the following page: Mr Hoban: To inform further discussions of financial sector taxation, ECOFIN asked the European Commission http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/minister_hospitality.htm to prepare an impact assessment on financial sector It is expected that the quarter covering 1 January to taxation, including financial activities taxes. The 31 March will be published shortly. The quarter covering Commission has now stated that it plans to publish this 1 April to 31 June will be published in due course. impact assessment alongside proposals on financial sector taxation in the autumn. Energy: Prices Intestacy Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will use the increased revenue to the Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer resulting from energy suppliers’ recent Exchequer what the value was of assets which passed increases in prices to support measures to reduce fuel to the Crown as bona vacantia in each of the last five poverty. [66213] years. [65732] 485W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 486W

Justine Greening: The value of the assets transferred National Insurance: Income Tax to the Crown as bona vacantia for each of the last five years was: Mr Frank Field: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what his policy is on the role of the Value (£ million) contributory system in his proposed review of taxation 2010-11 25 and national insurance. [66350] 2009-10 40 2008-09 18 Mr Gauke: The Government will maintain the 2007-08 30 contributory principle which underpins the national 2006-07 137 insurance system, and will ensure that this is reflected in any proposed reforms. The Chancellor set this policy 1 Which included a payment of £30 million to reduce a surplus balance. out in his speech at Budget 2011. It was confirmed in the document ‘Integrating the operation of income tax These figures are published annually in the Crown and National Insurance contributions: A call for evidence’, Nominee Accounts. which was published on the Treasury website on 11 July: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/consult_income_tax_national Liverpool Cruise Terminal _insurance_contributions.htm The call for evidence will inform the Government’s Mr Denham: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposals for reform, on which they will consult in the what discussions his has had with (a) the Secretary of autumn. State for Transport and (b) representatives of Peel Holdings on the future operational role and functions Public Sector: Pensions of the Liverpool Cruise Terminal. [66201] Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Danny Alexander: Treasury Ministers and officials (1) what the current (a) average employee contribution, have discussions with other Departments and a wide (b) average employer contribution and (c) retirement variety of organisations in the public and private sectors age is in the pension schemes for (i) teaching, (ii) NHS, as part of the process of policy development and delivery. (iii) civil service, (iv) warranted police, (v) fire service, As was the case with previous Administrations, it is not (vi) armed forces and (vii) local government; [65181] the Government’s practice to provide details of all such discussions. Department for Transport (DFT) launched (2) what changes are proposed to the (a) average a consultation on 7 July 2011 on the City of Liverpool employee contribution, (b) average employer contribution cruise terminal and the proposal to withdraw DFT’s and (c) retirement age in the pension schemes for (i) objection to the removal of a grant condition which teaching, (ii) NHS, (iii) civil service, (iv) warranted precludes its use for turnaround cruise operations. police, (v) fire service, (vi) armed forces and (vii) local government. [65182]

Loans: Belarus Danny Alexander: The current average employee contribution and employer contribution for the main Mr Streeter: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer public service schemes are set out in Table 3G of the if he will ensure that the UK will not support an IMF final report of the Independent Public Service Pensions loan to Belarus unless there is conditionality in respect Commission (IPSPC) chaired by former Labour Minister of improvements in human rights and the release of Lord Hutton of Furness. The average retirement age in political prisoners. [65737] the main public service schemes are presented in column 3 of Table B1 of the IPSPC’s interim report. Mr Hoban: We will assess Belarus’s request for assistance Spending review 2010 announced that the Government from the IMF on its merits, taking account in particular would make progressive changes to employee contributions whether Belarus will implement serious and far reaching saving £2.8 billion pa by 2014-15 and that the armed reform. The latest IMF press release can be found at: forces will be exempted from these changes. This will http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2011/pr11229.htm result in an average increase of 3.2pp across the other public service schemes. The design and distribution of Members: Correspondence this increase is being considered in discussion with trade unions and other stakeholders. Mr Baron: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer On retirement ages, one of Lord Hutton’s when he plans to reply to the letters of 9 May and recommendations was that the normal pension age for 8 June 2011 from the hon. Member for Basildon and public servants, except for the police, firefighters and Billericay regarding a constituent, Mr Roy Jennings. armed forces, should be linked to the state pension age. [66155] At Budget 2011 the Government accepted all of Lord Hutton’s recommendations as basis for consultation with trades unions and other stakeholders. Mr Hoban: I wrote to all hon. Members on the 16 May and again on 30 June to set out the Government’s position on Equitable Life. These letters were also the Rescue Services: Diesel Fuel Treasury’s response to outstanding correspondence that hon. Members may have raised regarding Equitable Andrew Bingham: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Life. For convenience my officials have resent the letters if he will take steps to permit mountain rescue teams to to my hon. Friend. use red diesel in rescue vehicles. [63380] 487W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 488W

Justine Greening: Red diesel is a duty rebated fuel for (2) what (a) meetings and (b) other engagements (i) exclusive use away from public roads. It would be difficult Ministers and (ii) special advisers in his Department to make a clear distinction between vehicles used by attended which were also attended by Mr Andrew mountain rescue teams and privately owned vehicles Coulson (A) between 12 May 2010 and 21 January and would risk undermining fuel duty anti-evasion 2011 and (B) since 21 January 2011. [66010] efforts. However, discussions are continuing on determining Gregory Barker [holding answer 13 July 2011]: As a suitable grant system for distributing funds to support has been the practice of previous Administrations the purchase of mountain rescue equipment and an information relating to internal meetings, discussions announcement will be made in due course. and advice is not normally disclosed. I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s Taxation: Aviation statement to the House on 13 July 2011, Official Report, columns 311-14. Adam Afriyie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 30 June 2011, Official Report, Carbon Emissions column 904W,on aviation: pollution control, what fiscal steps his Department is taking to create incentives for the aviation industry to reduce aircraft noise. [66153] Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what action he is taking to Justine Greening: Noise levels from aircraft in the reduce carbon emissions. [66291] UK are an important issue that can best be addressed through regulatory means. Aircraft noise certification Gregory Barker: The Prime Minister pledged to make levels are set internationally by the International Civil this the greenest Government ever and recently announced Aviation Organisation and the Government are pushing that carbon emissions from Government HQs and offices for these levels to be tightened for new aircraft types. have been cut by nearly 14% in just one year. Following The Government published a scoping document in this, he committed the Government to go further by March 2011 seeking views on a range of strategic issues, reducing emissions by 25% by 2015. We are also supporting including noise. The responses to the scoping document greater energy efficiency across the economy by introducing will inform the development of a sustainable framework the Green Deal, leading technological development with for UK aviation which will be published for consultation support for the world’s first commercial scale CCS in March 2012. demonstration, and rolling-out smart meters and a smart grid will build on this progress. Moreover, on Welfare Tax Credits 12 July 2011 the Government published ‘Planning our electric future: a White Paper for secure, affordable and Mr Weir: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer low-carbon electricity’. The White Paper sets out key what the cost to the public purse was, in real terms, of reforms to the electricity market to attract investment, replacing (a) family credit with working families tax reduce the impact on consumer bills, and create a secure credit, and (b) working families tax credit with (i) child mix of low-carbon electricity sources including renewables, tax credit and (ii) working tax credit. [65638] new nuclear and carbon capture and storage. Emissions projections, published in May 2011, show Mr Gauke: The information requested could be provided that the UK is on track, on central forecasts, to meet only at disproportionate cost. our first three carbon budgets and our 2020 target to reduce emissions by at least 34% against the 1990 baseline. Welsh Assembly Government: Borrowing Emissions have already been reduced by over 26%, taking into account the effects of emissions trading. Paul Murphy: To ask the Chancellor of the We also recently set in legislation the level of the Exchequer whether he plans to meet the First Minister fourth carbon budget for the 2023–27 period which of Wales to discuss the granting of borrowing powers equates to a 50% reduction in emissions. This autumn to the Welsh Government. [64791] Government will be publishing a comprehensive strategy which will set out how the fourth carbon budget might Danny Alexander: Treasury Ministers meet with Ministers be met, pathways to our 2050 target as well as a live of the devolved Administrations from time to time to Carbon Plan which will set out shorter-term actions the discuss various issues. Government commits to undertake, and key milestones to keep us on track to delivering our ambitious climate change goals. ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation Departmental Carbon Emissions Ian Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (1) what (a) meetings and (b) Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special advisers Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made in his Department have attended since his appointment of the carbon dioxide emissions from his Department which were also attended by (A) representatives, (B) in (a) June 2010 and (b) June 2011. [66758] journalists and (C) other employees of (1) News International and its subsidiary organisations including Gregory Barker: The carbon dioxide emissions from newspapers, (2) News Corporation and its subsidiary DECC’s estate were 93.75 tonnes in June 2010, and organisations and (3) BSkyB; [66007] 76.87 tonnes in June 2011. 489W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 490W

Energy 4. Introducing the Green Deal to improve the energy efficiency of the housing stock. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State 5. Cutting red tape for smaller suppliers. for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he In addition, Ofgem is tackling other barriers to effective has made of the (a) current and (b) future costs to (i) competition and consumer engagement (such as tariff individual energy consumers and (ii) the public purse complexity and low wholesale market liquidity) in its of onshore wind. [64641] Retail Market Review. While greater competition should put pressure on prices consumers should also regularly Charles Hendry: Renewables Obligation (RO) support evaluate the best deal on the market. has been classified as “tax and spend” by the Office for National Statistics. Fuel Poverty Onshore wind stations were issued with 7,237,999 Renewables Obligation Certificates (ROCs) in 2009-10, Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy according to Ofgem’s latest RO annual report. At a and Climate Change if he will make an assessment of ROC value for that year of £52.36, this implies a the impact of projected changes in energy prices for nominal terms onshore wind cost to consumers of domestic (a) gas and (b) electricity on the level of fuel around £380 million under the RO in 2009-10. poverty in (i) Glasgow, (ii) Scotland and (iii) the UK. The UK Renewable Energy Roadmap 2011 suggests [66357] a central range of 24-32TWh/y of onshore wind generation in 2020. This would cost around £l-1.3 billion in RO Gregory Barker: No formal assessments of the effects support in 2010-11 prices. of recent changes in domestic energy prices on fuel poverty levels have yet been undertaken at UK level. Energy: Prices The recent changes in domestic energy prices on fuel poverty will lead to upward pressure on fuel poverty in Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy 2011 and 2012. Nevertheless, the true effect will only be and Climate Change what steps he is taking to increase known when we have full information on price changes awareness of social tariffs offered by energy companies. from all suppliers and the 2011 English Housing Survey [65690] (EHS) and other housing surveys in each of the devolved Administrations. These housing surveys provide vital Gregory Barker: Energy suppliers are now required information for calculating the level of fuel poverty, by law to provide support with energy costs to more of including the mix of domestic fuels used by households, their most low income and vulnerable consumers through the income of those living in the households and the the Warm Home Discount scheme. Over the next four energy efficiency of the housing stock. years they will provide support worth up to £1.1 billion. However, an assessment of the likely impact of all Under arrangements designed to provide a smooth changes for England will be made today when DECC transition from the previous voluntary agreement, which will publish 2011 projections of fuel poverty for England. ended in March 2011, suppliers are able to continue offering social and discounted tariffs as part of the Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Warm Home Discount scheme. How these tariffs are and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the made available to vulnerable consumers is a matter for effects of his Department’s policies on the level of fuel the energy suppliers and will be monitored by Ofgem. poverty in (a) Glasgow, (b) Scotland and (c) the UK The majority of the new support available this year in (i) each of the next four financial years, (ii) by 2020 will be in the form of rebates to a core group of older and (iii) by 2030. [66358] poor pensioners—who will be identified to energy suppliers by Government through a data matching and sweep-up Gregory Barker: The annual report on fuel poverty process using benefit information. We estimate (based statistics, published today, shows that in 2009 there were on current casework figures) that about 600,000 of around 5.5 million fuel poor households in the UK. The these pensioners will receive a rebate worth £120 in Department does not calculate projected figures for the winter 2011-12. UK. Fuel poverty is a devolved issue. Scotland publishes Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy its own report on their national level of fuel poverty. and Climate Change what steps he is taking to mitigate The latest report was published in November 2010 and the impact on consumers of energy price rises. [65691] relates to fuel poverty in 2009. The report is available at: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/11/23125350/0 Charles Hendry: Consumers deserve the best possible The Scottish Government also publish fuel poverty deal, which means strong competition in the marketplace. figures at a local authority level, which are available at: We are taking a range of actions to boost competition http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/SHCS/LA0709 and help consumers control their costs, including: 1. Requiring better information on bills to facilitate switching between suppliers. Heat 2. Introducing the Warm Home Discount scheme to help tackle fuel poverty. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for 3. Extending the Carbon Emissions Reduction Target scheme, Energy and Climate Change what progress has been which obligates energy suppliers to help households install energy made in his Department’s internal strategic analysis on efficiency measures. the future supply of heat in the UK. [64362] 491W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 492W

Gregory Barker: DECC’s internal strategic analysis North Sea Oil: Safety on heat supply continues and will inform the Government’s response to the Committee on Climate Change’s Fourth John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Carbon Budget report in the autumn. Energy and Climate Change if he will take steps to ensure that the regulatory regime applying to safety Meters representatives on offshore oil and gas installations in the North Sea is included in the scope of the current Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy review of the UK oil and gas safety regime. [66259] and Climate Change if he will make it his policy to allow people to opt-out of the national roll out of Charles Hendry: The Panel established earlier this smart meters on health grounds. [65787] year to review the UK’s regime for regulating the upstream oil and gas sector has been gathering views and evidence Charles Hendry: The Government recognise that there from a range of stakeholders including the relevant may be a small proportion of customers who have trade unions. I can confirm that the role of safety concerns of one kind or another about receiving a representatives is being considered as part of the review, smart meter. These may include people with concerns the findings of which will be published later this year. about electromagnetic sensitivity. During the coming months, we will be doing further work to make sure we Oil fully understand the concerns individuals may have and how the programme can best respond to them. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State We estimate that over the next 20 years, the rollout of for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he smart meters will deliver £7.3 billion net benefits to has made of the effects of levels of future changes in consumers, energy suppliers and networks. A large levels of oil production on the security of UK energy proportion of the benefits of smart metering are supplies. [65449] underpinned by the ability to access the meter remotely and to provide customers with real time data on their Charles Hendry: The security of the UK’s energy gas and electricity consumption. supplies is assessed annually in the statutory Security of Supply Report, produced jointly by DECC and Ofgem, Meters: Radio Frequencies and available at: http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/meeting_energy/ Guto Bebb: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy en_security/sec_supply_rep/sec_supply_rep.aspx and Climate Change what research his Department has Total UK oil production peaked in 1999 and has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on the effects of since declined by around half. But the security of UK radiofrequency signals emitted by smart meters on the energy supplies depends more on global oil markets health of householders. [65786] than UK oil production. Charles Hendry: At this stage communications The UK looks at a variety of sources to assess the technology solutions have not been selected for the security of global oil supplies in the future, including smart metering system. Both wired and wireless technologies the International Energy Agency, industry and other exist that could be used, and for practical and technical research organisations. These conclude that in the longer reasons, both will need to be utilised by installers during term conventional oil production is unlikely to grow as the rollout. it has in the past, so there is a risk of significant rises in oil prices and volatility that needs to be tackled. Where wireless technologies are used they will have to comply with relevant regulations, best practice and The Government are taking a number of actions to international standards as set out by the International promote secure oil supplies, including working through Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection. international partners such as the International Energy Compliance with these standards will be a requirement Forum (IEF) and G20 to reduce oil demand, improve for the smart metering equipment. Suppliers will have a the functioning of the global oil market, and enhance licence obligation to install smart metering equipment transparency in physical and financial oil markets. that meets the requirements. The Health Protection Agency (HPA) is responsible Solar Power: Housing for providing advice on standards of protection for exposure to non-ionising radiation, including the radio Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for frequency electromagnetic fields (radio waves) associated Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of with smart metering technologies. The programme will 7 July 2011, Official Report, column 1375W, on solar continue to engage with the Department of Health, power: housing, whether he has (a) met and (b) HPA and our full range of other stakeholders on all corresponded with representatives of the solar photovoltaic relevant practical issues as work progresses on sector on the subject of (i) regulations for and (ii) the communications for smart metering. implementation by local authorities of planning regulations We estimate that over the next 20 years, the rollout of for the installation of solar photovoltaics on domestic smart meters will deliver £7.3 billion net benefits to properties. [66527] consumers, energy suppliers and networks. A large proportion of the benefits of smart metering are Gregory Barker: DECC Ministers meet regularly with underpinned by the ability to access the meter remotely industry representatives to discuss a range of issues. It and to provide customers with real time data on their has been the practice of successive Administrations not gas and electricity consumption. to reveal details of such meetings. 493W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 494W

Tidal Power: Manpower BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Entrepreneurs Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the number of people to be employed by the 20. James Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for wave and tidal energy sector in (a) 2020, (b) 2030, (c) Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking 2040 and (d) 2050. [65708] to encourage entrepreneurship among young people. [66036] Gregory Barker: The Department has not made any independent assessment of the potential number of Mr Willetts: We want every young person to have people that could be employed by the wave and tidal hands-on experience of enterprise in school, college sector up to 2050. However, RenewableUK state in their and university. That is why we are supporting the 2010 report “Channelling the Energy—A Way Forward development of student enterprise societies in every for the UK Wave and Tidal Industry Towards 2020” university by 2015. that the potential numbers of full-time equivalent (FTE) In particular we want stronger links between universities staff working directly in the marine energy industry and business. I have asked Professor Sir Tim Wilson to could be: undertake a review into how we make our country the best place in the world for university-industry collaboration. Number of individuals directly We want to reverse the decline in sandwich courses employed inherited from the previous Government. 2020 10,000 Inward Investment 2035 19,500 2050 19,000 21. Sheryll Murray: To ask the Secretary of State for There would also be a substantial number of additional Business, Innovation and Skills what recent progress he induced jobs in the wider economy supplying the wave has made on increasing levels of inward investment; and tidal sector. and if he will make a statement. [66037] Mr Davey: As reported in the written ministerial Wind Power statement of 11 July 2011, Official Report, columns 1-2WS, the UK recorded a strong inward investment Phil Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy performance in 2010/11, attracting 1,434 projects one of and Climate Change whether he has made an the highest project figures ever. assessment of the efficiency of on-shore wind turbines; and if he will make a statement. [64316] These inward investments created and safeguarded an estimated 94,598 jobs, slightly up from previous year. Charles Hendry: Onshore wind is a cost effective Space Sector source of renewable energy despite its intermittency and load factors which averaged 21.5% in 2010. 22. Stephen Hammond: To ask the Secretary of State Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent and Climate Change what steps his Department is assessment he has made of the state of the space sector; taking to invest in offshore wind off the coast of Suffolk. and if he will make a statement. [66038] [65830] Mr Willetts: The space sector has been growing at Charles Hendry: Government are working to support some 8% a year, even during the recession. That is why the deployment of offshore wind and attract turbine we made it a priority in the growth review. We are manufacturers to the UK. It is for manufacturers, not working with industry to finance the national space Government, to decide where the best locations are technology programme and to accelerate the development from a business perspective. The Government’s focus is of the International Space Innovation Centre. on ensuring that investors have confidence in the Only last week Surrey Satellites, with active Government development of the UK market more widely. As part of support, secured a £110 million contract to provide this work, the Renewables Roadmap published this data and services from three satellites to China. week shows that a central scenario of up to 18 GW of Apprenticeships UK offshore wind deployment is possible by 2020. The Electricity Market Reform White Paper published on 12 July also set out the long-term framework needed to 23. Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for give investors confidence. Business, Innovation and Skills how many people in (a) Enfield North constituency, (b) London and (c) The Renewables Obligation (RO) is currently the England have started an apprenticeship in 2011. [66039] Government’s main financial mechanism for incentivising the deployment of large-scale renewable technologies, Vince Cable: In the first three-quarters of this academic including offshore wind. New offshore windfarms are year there have been 420 apprenticeships started in the currently awarded two Renewable Obligation Certificates Enfield North constituency; 28,120 apprenticeships started (ROCs) per MWh. in London; and 326,700 apprenticeships started in England. The Renewables Roadmap announced up to £30 million, Overall, this is 114,000 more than last year—over a 50% subject to value-for-money assessment, to support increase. By the end of this spending review there will innovation in the production of offshore wind components be funding for 250,000 more adult apprenticeships than over the next four years. were planned by the previous Government. 495W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 496W

Mr Marcus Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Prisk: In addition to cutting small firms corporation Business, Innovation and Skills how many apprenticeship tax rates; and extending tax relief we are modernising starts there were in the first nine months of the 2010-11 business information online; cutting red tape and have a academic year in (a) England and Wales and (b) in national network of business mentors to help small Nuneaton constituency. [65570] firms grow. Mr Willetts: Table 1 shows the number of apprenticeship Apprentices: Greater London starts in England and Nuneaton parliamentary constituency in the first nine months of the 2010/11 academic year, from August 2010 to April 2011, based on provisional Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for data. Business, Innovation and Skills what recent estimate he Figures for apprenticeship starts in Wales in 2010/11 has made of the number of apprenticeship vacancies are not currently available—they will be published in advertised by the National Apprenticeship Service in November 2011 by the Welsh Government. (a) the London borough of Bexley and (b) Greater London in the last 12 months for which figures are Table 1: Apprenticeship starts in England and Nuneaton constituency, between 1 August 2010 and 30 April 2011 (provisional) available. [65564] Number Mr Willetts: Apprenticeship vacancies (on line system) Nuneaton constituency 560 data shows that for the academic year 2010/11 employers England 326,700 posted 66,560 apprenticeship vacancies in England between Notes: 1. All figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 1 August 2010 and 30 June 2011. Information on the 2. Geography information is based upon the home postcode of the learner. number of vacancies posted at parliamentary constituency Source: and Government office region levels of geography is not Individualised Learner Record Information on the number of apprenticeship starts available. Apprenticeship vacancies are available to is published in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). candidates based across England. The latest SFR was published on 23 June 2011: Apprenticeship vacancy reports are updated on a http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ monthly basis and published by National Apprenticeship statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current Service on the fourth day of each calendar month at the following link: Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for http://mireportslibrary.thedataservice.org.uk/apprenticeships/ Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his apprenticeship_vacancy_reports/ Department is taking to encourage small and medium- Apprenticeship places are secured through a range of sized businesses to take on apprentices. [65649] sources. The latest available data for academic year Mr Willetts: Apprenticeships provide substantial 2010/11 shows there were a total of 326,7001 apprenticeship economic benefit both to employers and to their workers. starts between August 2010 and April 2011 (provisional) It is therefore crucial that smaller employers, who form in England. the backbone of our economy, have the opportunity to 1 Information on the number of apprenticeship starts is published reap the benefits that apprenticeships offer. We are in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). The latest SFR was working to ensure that the process all employers go published on 23 June 2011: through to recruit an apprentice is as straightforward as http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/statisticalfirstrelease/ possible. This includes creating a new on-line toolkit, sfr_current taking employers through the ’end to end’ journey from initial interest to actual recruitment, and developing new Apprentices: Kettering delivery standards enabling employers to fully understand the level of service they can expect from the National Apprenticeship Service and the apprenticeship provider. Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many people in We are also working with employer representative (a) Kettering, (b) Northamptonshire and (c) England bodies (such as the Federation of Small Business and have started an apprenticeship in 2011. [66096] the British Chamber of Commerce) as well as employers from small and medium-sized enterprises (SME) to identify the barriers these firms may face in recruiting Mr Hayes: Table 1 shows a quarterly breakdown of an apprentice. We will come forward in the autumn with Apprenticeship starts in Kettering parliamentary proposals to facilitate greater SME engagement with constituency, Northamptonshire local education authority apprenticeships. and England in the first nine months of the 2010/11 academic year, from August 2010 to April 2011, based Microbusiness on provisional data. 24. Mr Andrew Turner: To ask the Secretary of State Figures relating to the calendar year are not available, for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he taking however quarterly provisional totals for each of the last to support the growth of microbusinesses. [66040] three quarters are shown for reference.

Table 1: Apprenticeship starts Kettering, Northamptonshire local education authority and England, between August 1 2010 and 30 April 2011 (provisional) August 2010 to November 2010 to February 2011 to August 2010 to October 20101 January 20111 April 20111 April 20111

Kettering constituency 240 190 190 620 Northamptonshire local education authority 1,570 1,160 1,370 4,090 497W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 498W

Table 1: Apprenticeship starts Kettering, Northamptonshire local education authority and England, between August 1 2010 and 30 April 2011 (provisional) August 2010 to November 2010 to February 2011 to August 2010 to October 20101 January 20111 April 20111 April 20111

England 122,200 93,900 110,600 326,700 1 Provisional. Notes: 1. All figures are rounded to the nearest 10 except England total which is rounded to the nearest 100. 2. Geography information is based upon the home postcode of the learner. Source: Individualised Learner Record

Information on the number of Apprenticeship starts Mr Davey [holding answer 13 July 2011]: For the is published in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). purposes of this independent review, a high street is The latest SFR was published on 23rd June 2011: defined as a geographically distinct area within a built-up http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ area (i.e. a village, town, city or conurbation) which statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_current contains a concentration of publicly accessible facilities which may include retail outlets, leisure facilities, and Copyright: Broadcasting public amenities. The geographical coverage of the review is England. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what his Department’s policy is Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for on the World Intellectual Property Organisation’s Business, Innovation and Skills how many hours Mary Broadcasting Treaty negotiations. [65755] Portas plans to work (a) each week and (b) in total on the independent review of the future of the high street. Mr Davey [holding answer 12 July 2011]: International [65995] protection of broadcasters’ rights is out of date. In particular, piracy of broadcasts on the internet is a Mr Davey [holding answer 13 July 2011]: Mary Portas border-crossing phenomenon requiring international action. is working on this review in her own time and will The UK therefore strongly supports proposals to update commit the time necessary to complete it. Mary Portas the protection of broadcasters at a global level through is not being paid for the time she spends on the review. a treaty at World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO), including providing broadcasters with an exclusive Higher Education right to authorise re-transmission over the internet. Employment: Young People Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills whether he plans to regulate the recruitment practices of private for-profit Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for higher education institutions; and if he will make a Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking statement. [66157] to increase employment opportunities for young people. [65648] Mr Willetts: The White Paper “Higher Education: Mr Willetts: The Government are creating the conditions Students at the Heart of the system” (Cm 8122) sets out for sustainable private sector growth, upon which the proposals for a single, transparent regulatory framework creation of new jobs for both young and older adults for all providers. There will be a new role for the Higher depends. Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE) as lead regulator. We are expanding the apprenticeships programme and will fund up to 250,000 more apprenticeships over For-profit higher education institutions that want the next four years compared to the previous Government’s their students to access student support funding would plans. We are also introducing a new Access to have to comply with requirements on quality, dispute Apprenticeships pathway for 16 to 24-year-olds that resolution, information, access (if charging over the will benefit up to 10,000 vulnerable young people who basic tuition charge), financial sustainability, any reformed need extra help to become an apprentice. student number controls and tuition charge caps. As now, HEFCE would sit within a framework of ″arm’s In addition, we will help young people into work length″ principles precluding it from any role in admissions. through pre-employment training for those on active This framework, on which we will consult, provides the benefits, work experience opportunities and continuation necessary safeguards for students in respect of quality of the graduate talent pool. The Government’s new and information; protects the autonomy of institutions; Work programme was recently launched and will provide and ensures government is able to maintain control of those young people who are unemployed for longer its financial exposure. with personalised support and training to help them into sustainable employment. Higher Education: Admissions High Street Review Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many young Business, Innovation and Skills what definition of high people from York Central constituency (a) applied for street is being used for the review on the future of the and (b) started a degree course in each year between high street led by Mary Portas; and which geographical 1997 and 2010; and how many have applied to start a areas the review covers. [65987] degree course in 2011. [65739] 499W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 500W

Mr Willetts: The figures are given in the table. (Cm 8122) makes clear that we want a diverse, competitive Applicants and accepted applicants to full-time undergraduate courses from York system that can offer different types of higher education Central constituency aged 20 or under so that students can choose freely between a wide range Applicants Accepted applicants of courses and providers. Overall, students are likely to see increased choice. 1997 305 242 1998 316 246 The White Paper also sets out plans to improve the 1999 334 274 information available to prospective students so they 2000 342 284 are able to make better informed choices about what 2001 375 312 course to study. The Key Information Set will for the 2002 375 320 first time bring together comparable information on 2003 393 321 student satisfaction, course content, assessment methods, 2004 403 347 costs, financial support and employment outcomes. 2005 439 366 2006 391 327 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State 2007 423 354 for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will assess the 2008 430 362 potential effects on (a) publicly-funded universities 2009 486 389 and (b) standards of quality and (c) equity in the 2010 502 388 university sector of private sector universities offering 2011 560 — two-year degrees for £6,000 per annum in tuition fees; Notes: and if he will make a statement. [65819] 1. Figures for the years up to 2010 are final end of year totals and include applicants who applied via the main UCAS application scheme, which closes on 30 June, or via clearing. Mr Willetts: The White Paper, “Higher Education: 2. Applicant figures for 2011 entry are the latest figures as at 30 June. Students at the Heart of the System” (Cm 8122) makes Source: UCAS clear that we want a diverse, competitive system that can offer different types of higher education so that Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, students can choose freely between a wide range of Innovation and Skills how many applications for providers. Two-year degrees are offered currently by undergraduate study were made to (a) the University both publicly funded and alternative providers and of York, (b) York St John University and (c) all offer scope for efficiencies which can deliver lower overall English universities in each year since 1997. [65740] costs and will be attractive to those students wanting to study intensively. Mr Willetts: The figures are given in the table. We are also planning to introduce a new regulatory UCAS main scheme applications to University of York, York St John University framework which will ensure that all providers wishing and England 1997 to 2010—Full-time undergraduate courses to benefit from public funding are treated on a more University of York St John All institutions consistent basis with respect to quality, dispute resolution, York University in England information, access, tuition charge caps and financial 1997 15,027 4,890 1,760,143 stability. Students will benefit as a result. 1998 15,846 4,228 1,713,484 1999 15,947 3,794 1,661,828 Higher Education: York 2000 16,479 3,785 1,636,336 2001 16,606 4,137 1,644,864 2002 19,447 3,523 1,650,420 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Secretary of State for 2003 20,695 4,661 1,709,911 Business, Innovation and Skills how much capital 2004 20,533 4,795 1,749,087 funding his Department and its predecessors allocated 2005 21,441 5,447 1,909,257 to (a) York college, (b) the university of York and (c) [65742] 2006 20,346 5,547 1,835,600 York St John university in each year since 2005. 2007 20,090 6,050 1,973,194 2008 18,434 5,541 1,852,623 Mr Willetts: Total capital payments for each of the 2009 21,543 6,194 2,021,546 institutions named since 2005 are as follows: 2010 24,548 7,685 2,303,678 Notes: £ 1. Since 2009 each applicant has been able to submit up to five applications University of York (choices), or four if they are applying to medical, dentistry or veterinary science York college St John University of York courses. In previous years applicants were able to submit up to six applications. 2. Figures cover applicants who applied during the main application scheme 2004-05 0 3,371,602 10,254,589 which closes on 30 June. Applicants who subsequently applied during clearing 2005-06 6,045,528 280,000 8,649,369 are excluded. Source: 2006-07 7,556,909 3,101,758 3,257,349 UCAS 2007-08 7,556,910 939,152 16,182,678 2008-09 0 1,308,627 31,442,103 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for 2009-10 0 1,251,150 26,823,315 Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has 2010-11 128,950 939,136 1,746,914 made of the potential effects on choice of university degree courses of proposals for the expansion of private degree The university figures given cover capital payments providers; and if he will make a statement. [65818] for both teaching and research—hence the much higher figures for the university of York. £2 million of the Mr Willetts: The Higher Education White Paper allocation to York is repayable in future years to Higher “Higher Education: Students at the Heart of the System” Education Funding Council for England (HEFCE.) 501W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 502W

Student Loans Company The Strategy does not set specific targets however the agreed actions should ensure there are no unnecessary Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for obstacles to the development of England’s AD industry. Business, Innovation and Skills (1) whether he plans to Agriculture: Land Use enable the Student Loans Company to withhold loans for students wishing to study at institutions deemed to be offering an unsatisfactory quality of higher Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for education by the Quality Assurance Agency; and if he Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy is will make a statement; [66149] on making available for food production suitable land which is at present set aside or otherwise unavailable. (2) whether he plans to require higher education [65212] institutions whose students are in receipt of loans from the Student Loans Company to subscribe to the Mr Paice: Set-aside was originally introduced as a Quality Assurance Agency; and if he will make a means to control food production and this scheme was statement. [66151] abolished from January 2009. This Government recognise that we need to produce more food while protecting the Mr Willetts: The Higher Education White Paper environment. I do not believe that Government should published on 30 June proposes a single, transparent regulate if the farming industry delivers enhanced benefits regulatory framework with which all providers in the on food production. Higher Education system will need to comply if they wish to benefit from public funding. We will consult this The Government strongly support the need for more summer on detailed proposals for the framework, which growing spaces to be made available for people to grow will include quality requirements. their own fruit and vegetables, as a contribution to helping people understand more about where food comes from and to eat a healthy, sustainable diet. We are working with colleagues at DCLG which is the Department ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS leading on the work to encourage communities to take ownership or management of significant community Agriculture: Carbon Emissions assets which includes food producing land such as allotments and community orchards. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Air Pollution: Aviation Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) if she will assess the impact of anaerobic digestion on achieving Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for her Department’s policy for greenhouse gas emissions Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many reduction from agriculture in the next four years; complaints her Department and its predecessor received [64530] about air pollution related to Heathrow airport in each (2) what measures she plans to adopt to increase the of the last 10 years. [64366] potential of further greenhouse gas emissions abatement from anaerobic digestion to meet the targets Richard Benyon: DEFRA does not hold a central for greenhouse gas reduction in the next decade beyond register of information and datasets on complaints those set out in the agriculture industry’s action plan. about air pollution related to Heathrow airport. To [64554] produce a definitive list of such complaints would involve disproportionate cost. Richard Benyon: Anaerobic digestion (AD) can play an important role as a means of dealing with organic Ammonia: Carbon Emissions waste and avoiding, by more efficient capture and treatment, the greenhouse gas emissions that are associated with Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for its disposal to landfill. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy The Government made a commitment to work towards is on the renegotiation of the Gothenburg Protocol on a ‘zero waste’ economy in the Coalition Programme for restrictions on ammonia emissions. [64539] Government of 20 May 2010, and to introduce measures to increase energy from waste through anaerobic digestion. Richard Benyon: A key EU aim for the renegotiation This was incorporated into DEFRA’s Business plan. of the UNECE Gothenburg Protocol is to increase On 14 June 2011 Government published the Anaerobic ratification of a revised protocol among non-EU parties Digestion Strategy and Action Plan. The Strategy sets in the UNECE region, which will further reduce levels out a vision for AD, while the Action Plan sets out the of transboundary air pollution across Europe. actions in detail that are needed to bring about an The UK is fully engaged in this process. For all air increase in energy from waste through anaerobic digestion. pollutants likely to be covered by the revised Protocol, The AD Strategy and Action Plan has been worked including ammonia, the UK supports further emission up in partnership between Government and Industry. reductions in line with current national and EU policies. Within the document a number of barriers have been identified and appropriate actions to overcome those Angling: Licensing hurdles, for example the development of a tool to calculate GHG savings associated with feedstocks, evidence Stephen Gilbert: To ask the Secretary of State for on the value of digestates and the establishment of a Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many line working group to look at current opportunities to support caught fish licences were issued but not active during environmental benefits of on-farm AD. the latest period for which figures are available. [64954] 503W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 504W

Richard Benyon [holding answer 11 July 2011]: There employment and salary and (e) activities associated are very few licences issued that specifically relate to with a large-scale badger cull in England in each year permitting a vessel to fish with hand lines. Instead, of the project. [64364] licences are structured primarily to control what species a fisherman can target. For example, a category A Mr Paice: Under the proposals set out in our public licence allows a fisherman to target any species subject consultation on bovine tuberculosis: the Government’s to UK quotas. Within this, they can use a range of approach to tackling the disease and consultation on a gears, depending on any EU or national technical badger control policy, we would expect the farming conservation measures in place—for example, there are industry to bear the direct costs of badger control. restrictions on the use of beam trawl gears based on Government would fund licensing and monitoring. historic activity. An impact assessment setting out the various estimated There were 1,386 category A licences issued in 2010 costs was included as part of the consultation and can to vessels spread around the UK, all of which could have be found at: potentially used hand line gears. Of these, for example, http://archive.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/tb-control- only 345 vessels actually fished for mackerel with hand measures/100915-tb-control-measures-annexf.pdf lines in 2010 in the South West, i.e. ICES areas 7e to 7h. This does not necessarily mean that the other vessels Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for were inactive as they may have fished with other gears. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which species of (a) wild and (b) domestic animal her Department has Animal Welfare found to have contracted bovine tuberculosis. [64481]

Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: Nearly all warm-blooded animals are Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy susceptible to bovine tuberculosis and it has been found is on provision of incentives for animal health schemes in a range of species worldwide. As well as cattle and in each of the next four financial years. [64540] badgers, the species in which it has most commonly been confirmed in Britain are deer, llamas, alpacas, Mr Paice: Funding is available under the Rural pigs, sheep, goats, ferrets, wild boar, cats and dogs. Development Programme for England for measures to Further information of the number of cases in these improve the animal health of farm livestock, where species can be found on the DEFRA website. such support would result in improvements going significantly beyond the levels required by law, and Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for where it would also lead to significant increases in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent estimate profitability and competitiveness of the agricultural she has made of the timescale for the introduction of an holding concerned. effective bovine TB vaccination for (a) badgers and (b) There is no specific budgetary allocation for this cattle. [64581] purpose, separate from other aspects of competitiveness support. DEFRA is currently considering a new and Mr Paice: The first injectable badger vaccine, more nationally consistent delivery model for the remaining BadgerBCG, was licensed in March 2010. An oral two and a half years of the programme so far as the badger vaccine, which may be a more practical option, socio-economic measures are concerned, and support is in development but is still several years away. for animal health improvement will be one of the elements A cattle vaccine is also being developed. However, which that model will cover. vaccination of cattle against TB is prohibited under existing EU legislation. This will need to be changed Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control before a vaccine can be used in the field. Changing EU legislation is a lengthy and uncertain process which is Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for likely to take several years. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what advice her It is therefore not possible to say with any certainty Department has received from the Government Chief when a cattle vaccine and oral badger vaccine might be Scientific Adviser on a badger cull; and if she will available for use in the field but it is several years away. publish any such advice. [64204] Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice [holding answer 6 July 2011]: Sir John Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what evidence Beddington, the Government chief scientific adviser, she has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on the and his officials discussed the evidence around bovine effects of bovine TB on the number of families working TB and badgers with Professor Watson and DEFRA in the dairy industry. [64582] officials when the proposals (and supporting documents) in the public consultation were in development. He has Mr Paice: No work has been commissioned or reviewed also discussed this issue with me and the Secretary of specifically on the effect of bovine TB on the number of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my families working in or leaving the dairy industry. The right hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman). decline in the number of dairy farmers is likely to be DEFRA officials continue to be in regular contact with due to the combination of a range of factors and it Sir John and the Government Office for Science. would be difficult to precisely isolate the effect of bovine TB.

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for George Eustice: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her her Department has made of the cost of (a) purchase Department’s policy is on testing badgers that are found of equipment, (b) transport, (c) staff training, (d) dead for TB. [65209] 505W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 506W

Mr Paice: The local authority (or, in the case of for a court to determine the application of, and compliance motorways, the Highways Agency) is responsible for with, the Human Rights Act 1998 in relation to any the removal of badger carcases found beside roads. Post action taken by the NWC. mortem examinations to establish disease status are not Further public consultation on the NWC, in the routinely carried out for badgers found dead. context of the transfer order, will take place in the autumn. Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment British Waterways Board: Freedom of Information she made of the risk of sanctions against the Government by the EU in the event of a failure to prevent the spread of bovine TB. [65396] Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will put in Mr Paice: DEFRA and the devolved Administrations place measures to ensure that British Waterways will work closely with the European Commission to ensure continue to be subject to the provisions of the Freedom that we comply with EU legislation and that they of Information Act 2000 and the Environmental understand the bovine TB situation in the UK. The Information Regulations 2004 following any transfer to Commission has supported our approach, approving charitable status; and if she will make a statement. the UK Bovine TB Eradication Plan for 2011, which [64008] includes controls to prevent the spread of bovine TB within the UK and to other countries. On that basis the Richard Benyon: The Government recognises the current risk of EU sanctions is low. However, cattle can importance of making appropriate provision for access only be exported if they are individually certificated, to information from public bodies and those outside the come from officially tuberculosis free herds and if over public sector with public functions. With this in mind, 42 days of age have passed a pre-export tuberculin skin we are considering the principles involved in the transfer test within the previous 30 days. This is in accordance of functions to the New Waterways Charity (NWC), with Community law. and will be discussing this in due course with the transition trustees. Bovine Tuberculosis: Vaccinations Further public consultation on the NWC, in the context of the transfer order, will take place in the Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, autumn. Food and Rural Affairs what financial contribution her Department has made towards research and development Carbon Emissions of oral TB vaccines for badgers in the latest period for which figures are available. [64936] Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: Since 2005-06 DEFRA has invested over Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what response £6 million on research into oral badger vaccines. she has made to the recommendation in the Committee on Climate Change’s Meeting Carbon Budgets—3rd British Waterways Board Progress Report to Parliament to consider options for further greenhouse gas emissions abatement from Duncan Hames: To ask the Secretary of State for agriculture beyond that in the current industry action Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment plan to meet the targets for greenhouse gas emission she has made of the compatibility of the provisions of reductions in the next decade. [64531] the Public Bodies Bill in relation to the convention rights of itinerant live-aboard boaters under Article 8 Richard Benyon: The Government welcomes the of the European Convention on Human Rights. Committee on Climate Change’s 3rd Annual Progress [64832] Report, published on 30 June. The Government will carefully consider the recommendations set out in the Richard Benyon [holding answer 11 July 2011]: The report and will formally respond later this year. Minister for the Cabinet Office made the statement under section 19(1)(a) of the Human Rights Act 1998, Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, that in his view the provisions of the Public Bodies Bill Food and Rural Affairs (1) what measures she plans to are compatible with the convention rights. There is adopt to increase the potential of further greenhouse nothing in the powers contained in the Bill to prevent gas emissions abatement from using better soil management them being exercised in a way which is fully compatible techniques to meet the targets for greenhouse gas reduction with the convention. in the next decade beyond those set out in the industry’s The Public Bodies Bill is an enabling Bill and therefore action plan; [64532] the Bill itself will not effect any changes to the British (2) what measures she plans to adopt to increase the Waterways Board. Subject to parliamentary approval potential of further greenhouse gas emissions abatement and any necessary consultation, the Public Bodies Bill from using better nutrient management techniques to will provide the necessary enabling powers to allow an meet the targets for greenhouse gas reduction in the Order to be made transferring the powers and duties of next decade beyond those set out in the agriculture the British Waterways Board in England and Wales to industry’s action plan; [64552] the proposed New Waterways Charity (NWC). (3) what proposals her Department has to encourage The Government recognise the importance of the the selection of crop varieties by farmers which rights of those who live on and use the inland waterways increase the rate of abatement from nitrous oxide which will transfer to the NWC. Ultimately, it would be emissions by 2020; [64537] 507W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 508W

(4) what measures she plans to adopt to increase the Coastal Erosion: East Sussex potential of further greenhouse gas emissions abatement from manure management to meet the targets for Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for greenhouse gas reduction in the next decade beyond Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what those set out in the agriculture industry’s action plan; discussions her Department has had on coastal erosion [64553] between Brighton and Peacehaven; [65680] (5) what measures she plans to adopt to increase the (2) what steps her Department is taking to prevent potential of further greenhouse gas emissions abatement erosion of the (a) coastline and (b) A259 coastal road from livestock feed to meet the targets for greenhouse between Brighton and Peacehaven. [65681] gas reduction in the next decade beyond those set out in the agriculture industry’s action plan; [64555] Richard Benyon: Under the Coast Protection Act (6) what measures she plans to adopt to increase the 1949, Brighton and Hove city council and Lewes district potential of further greenhouse gas emissions abatement council are the competent operating authorities with from livestock breeding to meet the targets for greenhouse permissive powers to undertake coastal erosion management gas reduction in the next decade beyond those set out in work for the coastline between Brighton and Peacehaven. the agriculture industry’s action plan; [64556] The Environment Agency provides the strategic coastal (7) what measures she plans to adopt to increase the overview on behalf of DEFRA. It assesses all risk, potential of further greenhouse gas emissions abatement prioritises risk management programmes, and allocates from using more nitrogen efficient plants to meet the and manages funding for work programmes. targets for greenhouse gas reduction in the next decade The recently reviewed Beachy Head to Selsey Bill beyond those set out in the agriculture industry’s action Shoreline Management Plan (SMP) includes the Brighton plan; [64557] to Peacehaven frontage. For the majority of both the (8) what measures she plans to adopt to increase the frontage and the A259, the SMP recommends a policy potential of further greenhouse gas emissions abatement of ″holding the line″ of the toe of the cliff. For part of from using nitrification inhibitors to meet the targets the frontage at Telscombe cliffs, which includes a smaller for greenhouse gas reduction in the next decade beyond section of the A259 and currently has no defences, there those set out in the agriculture industry’s action plan. is a policy of ″no active intervention″. [64558] The forthcoming Newhaven Harbour to Brighton Marina Flood and Erosion Risk Management Strategy Richard Benyon: The Government, in partnership will develop the SMP policy further and identify options with the devolved Administrations, have invested £12.6 for managing the coastline for the next 100 years. This million over a four and half year period to improve the will include a detailed assessment of the likely costs Agriculture Greenhouse Gas Inventory R and D Platform. involved, including the likelihood of central Government Through a series of projects, covering data management funding in accordance with the latest DEFRA flood and modelling and methane and nitrous oxide emissions, and coastal resilience partnership funding policy. this research will strengthen our understanding of emissions This strategy is to be led by Lewes district council, produced on farm and better capture the positive actions and a request for flood defence grant in aid of £325,000 that farmers are currently taking. This platform forms has been submitted in this year’s Medium Term Plan part of a wider programme of R and D into reducing for funding to begin in 2012-13. GHG emissions from agriculture. This is an extensive programme of research that Crops: Research looks at specific techniques, such as improved animal feed, livestock breed, crop varieties, etc, that will reduce Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, on farm emissions. Details of all R and D projects Food and Rural Affairs how many regional research commissioned by DEFRA can be accessed through the hubs for groupings of crops will be supported by her Department’s website. Department in each of the next four financial years. [64814]

Coastal Areas: Public Footpaths Mr Paice: Crop research is undertaken within research institutes and university departments across the UK. DEFRA does not fund regional research hubs for groupings Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State of crops. There are no plans to establish such hubs. for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the answer of 27 June 2011, Official Report, column Departmental Consultants 491W, on coastal areas: public footpaths, when she expects to discuss with Natural England its priorities Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for and timetable for the implementation of the coastal Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her access provisions beyond the initial coastal stretches set Department (a) has spent and (b) plans to spend on out in March 2011. [64338] consultants as part of the National Ecosystems Assessment. [65054] Richard Benyon: We have announced our plans to implement coastal access at Weymouth and in five lead Richard Benyon: The National Ecosystem Assessment areas. My officials are reviewing with Natural England was not commissioned as a consultancy, but as a scientific the possible next steps for coastal access, following any research project co-ordinated by the World Conservation lessons learnt from the current implementation and in Monitoring Centre. DEFRA’s contribution to the project the light of available resources. was £674,820. The funding consortium included all of 509W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 510W the devolved Administrations as well as the Natural Farmers: Carbon Emissions Environment Research Council and the Economic and Social Research Council. The study was a major project Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State involving over 500 economists and scientists, many of for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her whom gave their knowledge and time for free. The Department has issued any advice to farmers on the Natural Environment White Paper includes a commitment generation of low-carbon energy on their land. [65458] to build on the National Ecosystem Assessment by supporting a further phase of research, but financial commitments have not been finalised. Mr Paice: Farmers can access free telephone and web advice on low carbon energy generation and energy Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for efficiency from the Carbon Trust, which is funded by Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC). Department (a) has spent and (b) plans to spend on The Government are keen for farm businesses to consultants as part of the England Biodiversity improve their energy efficiency through the uptake of Strategy. [65055] low-carbon and energy efficient equipment. We are therefore working closely with DECC, which leads on Richard Benyon: No consultancy costs were incurred energy policy, to ensure that its policies and advice directly in developing our new England Biodiversity include farm businesses. Strategy (2011-20), which is due to be published shortly. We do not have quantified plans for overall future Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, consultancy costs associated with implementing this Food and Rural Affairs what proposals her Department wide-ranging 10-year strategy. There will occasionally has to (a) improve energy efficiency, (b) encourage be some consultancy spend where this is necessary to greater uptake of renewable energy sources by farmers provide the required expertise or independence of view, and (c) reduce land use change emissions from agriculture for example, in relation to the Nature Improvement to meet greenhouse gas emission reduction targets in Area competition panel. 2020. [64538]

Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: Energy efficiency is a key focus of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her Government’s energy and climate change strategy. The Department spent on external consultants as part of Government are also keen for farm businesses to improve the waste review. [65056] their energy efficiency through the uptake of low-carbon and energy efficient equipment. We are working closely Richard Benyon: No external consultants were employed with the Department of Energy and Climate Change to work on the Government’s Review of Waste Policy in (DECC), which leads on energy policy, to ensure that its England. policies include farm businesses. A wide range of policies are in place or under Dogs: Sales development, as set out in the Carbon Plan published in March. These include major initiatives such as the forthcoming Green Deal and Energy Company Obligation, Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for and the existing Carbon Emissions Reduction Target. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her DEFRA’s contributions to improving energy efficiency Department has assessed the merits of extending the cover a range of policy areas including product standards, provisions of the Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) corporate carbon reporting, water efficiency, and resource Act 1999 to regulate the sale of dogs online. [62118] efficiency. Mr Paice [holding answer 27 June 2011]: The Breeding Agri-environment schemes have the potential, either and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999 largely amended through previous, current or new land management the Breeding of Dogs Act 1973 and does not exclude practice to deliver greenhouse gas reductions of 3.46 businesses that breed dogs and sell them over the internet, million, tonnes of CO2 equivalents per year. as long as such businesses are based in Great Britain. Fertilisers Eggs: Labelling

Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her Department has Food and Rural Affairs if she will discuss with plans to require the collection of data on the impact of representatives of the egg industry the introduction of a soil testing measures on the use of fertiliser. [64536] labelling scheme to indicate the production method of multi-ingredient food products containing eggs. [66198] Richard Benyon: We do not have plans to collect such Mr Paice: DEFRA Ministers are happy to discuss data although DEFRA is committed to helping make industry initiatives. While we have no plans to introduce available the best advice on the frequency of soil sampling a Government-led labelling scheme to indicate the and analysis as part of good nutrient management. production method of multi-ingredient food products We welcome the work that industry is doing including containing eggs, such information can already be provided the compilation of soil test data across England and on a voluntary basis so long as it is not misleading to Wales, and in providing advice and promoting nutrient consumers. management planning. 511W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 512W

Fertilisers: Grasslands In addition, DEFRA is developing training for catering managers and procurers in the public sector on efficient Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for and sustainable food procurement based around the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will make Government Buying Standards and using examples of an assessment of (a) the extent of fertiliser use on best practice from around the country. grassland areas in England and (b) its effects on the We believe that local people are best placed to decide density of nitrous oxide emissions in each of the last what is best in their communities. Greater transparency four years. [64529] across Government is at the heart of our shared commitment to enable the public to hold politicians Mr Paice: Volatility in fertiliser prices over recent and public bodies to account. Local government are years has been a significant influence on year on year required to publish details of contracts over £500, and usage levels. The following table shows overall1 nitrogen NHS bodies are required to publish contracts over fertiliser use on grassland in England and to better £10,000. illustrate the longer term trend, data for 2004 to 2010 are shown. These figures relate to manufactured fertiliser Food: Origin Marking only and do not include organic manures. Overall nitrogen fertiliser use on grassland (kg per hectare) Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Total nitrogen Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what progress her Department made on the introduction of the EU’s 2004 73 Country of Origin labelling proposals. [65266] 2005 69 2006 67 Mr Paice: We have been pressing for improved origin 2007 61 information in the current EU negotiations on a new 2008 52 regulation on the provision of food information to 2009 54 consumers. The European Parliament agreed a compromise 2010 61 proposal on 6 July. This is expected to be formally adopted by the Council by the end of the year. The downward trend in fertiliser application on grassland has been one of the main drivers of the reduction in For origin labelling, this would mean: nitrous oxide emissions from UK agriculture which Fresh and frozen meat would have to be labelled with its origin; have fallen from 30 million tonnes of carbon dioxide Where origin claims are made concerning the origin of a food, the origin of the main ingredients will have to be given if these are (CO2) equivalent in 2004 to 27.6 million tonnes CO2 equivalent in 2007 and 27.4 million tonnes in 2009. 2010 different to the claim. data are not yet available. The Commission is also charged with looking at 1 The overall application rate is defined as the total quantity of extending the rules to other foods such as meat as an nutrient used, in kilograms (kg), divided by the total extent of ingredient, milk and dairy products. It is currently crop area, in hectares (including any areas without application of expected that the regulation will be published by early 2012. the nutrient). Sources: Foxes: Disease Control The British Survey of Fertiliser Practice DECC, UK Climate Change Statistics Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy is Food on measures to address the spread of alveolar echinococcosis in the fox population; and what discussions Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for she has had with the devolved administrations on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the matter. [65211] answer to the hon. Member for Totnes of 27 June 2011, Official Report, column 497W, on food, what steps she Mr Paice: Ongoing surveillance of wild foxes has plans to take to ensure that food procured by the public demonstrated that the fox population in the UK remains sector meets British or equivalent standards of free of echinococcus multilocularis. Similarly, no domestic production wherever this can be achieved without cases of human infection by the tapeworm E. multilocularis increasing overall costs. [64439] have been found. The UK’s geographic separation from continental Europe essentially eliminates the risk of the Mr Paice: We want to improve standards of public introduction of E. multilocularis through the cross-border food procurement where this can be achieved without movement of wild animals to a negligible level. increasing the overall costs. This means closely assessing A qualitative assessment of the risk of importing the the costs and benefits of various options for the tapeworm E. multilocularis via the movement of pet procurement of food that is healthy, sustainable and animals to the UK has been carried out by DEFRA. ethically sourced. Our proposals have been submitted Exposure of a pet to infection depends on the country to external review to make sure we get this right and we visited and whether the pet has ingested any infected have published guidance for buyers alongside the standards. rodents. Alveolar echinococcosis is restricted to the We are working with major local authority buying northern hemisphere and has become more of a problem organisations in the PR05 group to encourage the voluntary in some urban fox populations. The risk is currently inclusion of Government Buying Standards into national mitigated by a requirement to treat all cats and dogs food and catering procurement frameworks, which will with Praziquantel (certified by a vet in the pet passport enable public sector bodies to achieve cost savings without or third country official veterinary certificate) before compromising on quality or sustainability. entering the UK. 513W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 514W

We recognise that without our current treatment Richard Benyon: The Government are committed to regime there would be an increased risk of disease delivering on its vision of clean, healthy, safe, productive introduction and the disease could become established and biologically diverse oceans and seas. Creating an in the UK rodent or fox population. The European ecologically-coherent network of Marine Protected Areas Commission has given a strong indication that it will (MPAs), which includes Marine Conservation Zones shortly come forward with proposals that would enable (MCZs), is central to conserving marine biodiversity the UK and other tapeworm free countries to retain and will contribute to the wider health of our marine tapeworm controls with a treatment window of one-five ecosystem. days. The four stakeholder-led regional projects have made The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and good progress and presented their draft final Rural Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for recommendations for prospective MCZ sites, including Meriden (Mrs Spelman), recently wrote to the devolved identifying conservation objectives for most sites, at the Administrations, updating them on the changes to the beginning of June. Taking account of comments from pet movement controls, including the steps being taken the MPA Science Advisory Panel they will present their to retain controls on tapeworm. DEFRA officials hold final site recommendations and conservation objectives regular discussions with counterparts in the devolved at the end of August. Administrations on these issues. The MCZ site recommendations, the formal advice Horticulture from the Statutory Nature Conservation Bodies, and the impact assessments will be sent to Ministers in January 2012. We will give these and the scientific and Claire Perry: To ask the Secretary of State for economic evidence and stakeholders’ views careful Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take consideration, before making a decision on sites to take steps to support the gardening industry through research forward to public consultation in early summer 2012 and development of ornamental horticulture. [64223] with a view to designation by end the end of 2012. Mr Paice: DEFRA continues to fund research on The Statutory Nature Conservation Bodies’ Ecological horticulture through its research and development (R Network Guidance to the regional projects describes and D) programmes on sustainable farming systems, the requirements for an ecologically coherent network, agriculture and climate change, and sustainable water including those habitats and species of conservation management. Research into areas such as crop protection, importance considered to be most appropriately protected nutrient management, control of pests and diseases, using MCZs. The guidance is available on Natural water use and growing media are generally applicable to England’s website. For habitats and species requiring a wide range of ornamental and food crops. In addition, the requiring the establishment of European sites (Special the industry supports R and D through its DEFRA Areas of Conservation and/or Special Protection Areas sponsored levy body, the Horticultural Development (SPAs)) in accordance with the EC habitats and birds Corporation, a part of the Agricultural and Horticultural directives, it is considered that these European sites will Development Board. provide the requisite contribution to the network.

Marine Conservation Zones MCZs should only be proposed for habitats and species that are protected under the EC habitats and wild birds directives in exceptional circumstances, and Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for where they are essential to meet the ecological coherence Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what progress objectives of the wider MPA network, as our guidance the statutory nature conservation bodies have made makes clear. towards the objective of designating an ecologically- coherent network of marine protected areas by 2012. When selecting MCZs for habitats and species of [63903] conservation importance, particular attention is given to areas of additional ecological importance. These Dr Whitehead: To ask the Secretary of State for include areas that support particular ecological processes, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) whether she are important for particular life stages or behaviours of plans to designate a management regime for species any species, are highly productive or support high and habitats that are not features of conservation biodiversity. Spatial protection mechanisms are not, in importance to ensure their protection within a marine isolation, the most effective way of protecting highly conservation zone; [64004] mobile species. Protecting some habitats important to (2) by what means marine conservation zones will mobile species can aid their conservation, as part of protect species and habitats listed in the Annex to the wider protection measures that can be applied across Habitats Directive which are found at nationally rather their range. We will continue to develop bespoke management measures for vulnerable mobile species, than internationally important thresholds; [64005] such as acoustic deterrents to reduce dolphin bycatch (3) what assessment she has made of the management and fisheries protection for endangered sharks. For provisions resources required to ensure that requirements birds the SPAs, combined with other sector-wide initiatives for site objectives and requirements for an ecologically (for example under the EU Seabird Plan of Action), coherent network of marine protected areas are fulfilled; will be the primary methods for protection. If areas [64006] important to habitats or species not specified in the (4) whether marine conservation zones may be designated Ecological Network Guidance are identified, the evidence in respect of species and habitats which do not constitute should be provided and we will consider their protection features of conservation importance. [64007] through MCZs. 515W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 516W

The regional projects are working with stakeholders be delivered in a less burdensome way through a voluntary to identify possible management measures, such as byelaws approach. DEFRA is now working with a range of or voluntary agreements that may be needed. Their businesses to explore the potential for new responsibility likely social and economic effects will be assessed in an deals in a number of different sectors. impact assessment. This will include the potential resources required for management provisions: for example the Rabbits: EU Law potential cost to the Marine Management Organisation and Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities of Oliver Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for putting byelaws in place. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether regulation Nitrates of rabbit farming in the UK is affected by EU legislation; what recent assessment she has made of the (a) standards Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, and (b) reputation of rabbit farming in (i) the UK and Food and Rural Affairs what her policy is on the (ii) the EU; and if she will make a statement. [63939] inclusion of all regions of England within nitrate vulnerable Mr Paice: Council Directive 98/58/EC of 20 July zones under the EU Nitrates Directive. [64541] 1998 on the protection of animals kept for farming Richard Benyon: We expect to consult on a range of purposes sets out a general framework for the protection proposals and the indicative new nitrate vulnerable of all farmed animals, but there is no specific provision zone (NVZ) boundaries in the autumn. Final decisions for rabbits. will depend on a range of factors, including the cost However, in 2005, the European Food Safety Authority implications and the outcome of the consultation. produced a report describing housing and husbandry systems and their impact on the health and welfare of Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, farmed domestic rabbits. This report fed into the Council Food and Rural Affairs if she will make an assessment of Europe’s draft recommendations concerning the of the impact on greenhouse gas emissions abatement minimum standards for farmed rabbits which are still of the inclusion of all English regions within nitrate under negotiation. vulnerable zones under the EU Nitrates Directive. The UK has a relatively small rabbit farming industry [64542] compared to some EU member states. The keeping of commercially farmed rabbits is adequately provided for Richard Benyon: The Department is currently funding by way of the provisions in the Animal Welfare Act a research project that is looking at the impact on 2006 and the Welfare of Farmed Animals Regulations greenhouse gas emissions from changes to manure 2007 which contains a specific schedule for rabbits. In management practices as a result of the Nitrates Action addition, DEFRA has a code for rabbits which provides Programme. The project will evaluate the effects of the good husbandry advice including recommendations for implementation of several possible Action Programme housing, feed, water and space allowances which should measures, including designating the whole of England be regarded as absolute minimum. as a single Nitrate Vulnerable Zone (NVZ). Evidence from this and other research projects will assist Ministers Reservoirs in making their final decisions on the designation of Nitrate Vulnerable Zones in England under the EU Nitrates Directive (91/676/EEC) due in 2012. This work Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for is part of an integrated approach to tackling diffuse Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the (a) pollution from agriculture. capacity and (b) number of reservoirs was in England in (i) 1989 and (ii) 2010. [65180] A consultation document on the review of the NVZ designations in England is due to be published this Richard Benyon: At the end of 2010 there were 1,909 autumn. This will provide further information on the reservoirs classed as “large raised reservoirs”, based on option of a whole territory approach proposal. the definition laid down in the Reservoirs Act 1975. Producer Responsibility These had a combined maximum capacity of 2,264,376,534 cubic metres. Figures for 1989 are not available. Records Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for of reservoirs outside the “large raised reservoir” category Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent are not held centrally. discussions her Department has had with industry representatives on producer responsibility; and if she Shooting: Weather will make a statement. [64358] Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: Ministers and officials engaged with Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will review a wide range of stakeholders, including on producer the arrangements to set the dates of the shooting seasons responsibility, as part of the Government’s Review of to provide for the extension of a season in cases where Waste Policy in England, which was published in June. severe weather has prevented shooting. [65167] The stakeholders included representatives from central and local government, environmental groups, businesses Mr Paice: The close season for birds listed on Schedule throughout the supply chain, the waste management 1 Part 2 and Schedule 2 Part 1 to the Wildlife and industry and civil society organisations. Countryside Act 1981 is set to avoid birds being shot at The Review concluded that while statutory producer a time when this could interfere with breeding. Shooting responsibility can be an influential driver for change, during this period would likely have an impact on the better environmental outcomes can in many circumstances conservation status of these species. 517W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 518W

Following a severe winter, the close season for listed spending review period in pro-poor agricultural growth species is particularly important in order to ensure wild through his Department’s bilateral programmes for the birds are able to recover to breeding condition, move purposes of mitigating the likelihood of future food between wintering and breeding grounds, and successfully security crises in the developing world. [65584] breed. Therefore, there are no plans in England to extend the shooting season in years where severe weather Mr Andrew Mitchell: At least 16 of the Department has resulted in the voluntary or statutory suspension of for International Development’s (DFID) bilateral shooting. programmes are currently planning programmes which Squirrels will deliver improvements in the food security and nutritional status of poor people in the countries concerned. DFID also provides significant support for food security Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for through our investments in agricultural research and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will consider our contributions to the work of relevant multilateral the merits of introducing a bounty for grey squirrels to institutions such as the World Food Programme. Over reduce the population of that species. [65157] the next four years, DFID’s support will stop 10 million more children going hungry and ensure anther four Richard Benyon: It has sometimes been suggested million people have enough food throughout the year. that a restoration of the bounty scheme operated by the Government in the 1950s could help to eradicate grey The Department for International Development (DFID) squirrels or at least make a serious impact on numbers. has further allocation decisions to make in the later The scheme made no significant impact on natural years of the current spending review period. These fluctuations in numbers, however, and was abandoned decisions will be informed by the need to meet the as ineffective. Populations of grey squirrels actually conditions of DFID’s spending review settlement and rose during most of the scheme’s lifetime. Therefore, we to ensure that the Department’s business plan objectives have no plans to reintroduce a bounty scheme for grey are delivered. squirrels. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what his policy is on investing in agricultural growth through bilateral programmes for the purposes INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT of mitigating the likelihood of a future food security Afghanistan: Religious Freedom crisis in the developing world. [65736]

Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Andrew Mitchell: Currently, at least 10 of the International Development what representations he Department for International Development’s (DFID) has made to the Government of Afghanistan on the bilateral programmes and our regional programmes in imprisonment of Said Musa. [65161] Africa and Asia are planning to provide support for agricultural sector development. In total, at least 16 Alistair Burt: I have been asked to reply. country programmes are planning programmes which We understand Mr Musa was released from custody will deliver improvements in the food security and in February 2011. During his detention we worked with nutritional status of poor people in the countries concerned. international partners to raise Mr Musa’s case with the DFID also provides significant support for improvement Afghan Government. The UK Attorney-General also in global food security through our investment in raised this case with the Afghan Attorney-General, agricultural research and our contributions to the work when he visited Afghanistan in January. of relevant multilateral institutions such as the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation and the International Jim Shannon: To ask the Secretary of State for Fund for Agricultural Development. International Development if he will request the Government of Afghanistan to release from prison all Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for those imprisoned for offences related to their conversion International Development if he will allocate a from Islam. [65162] proportion of the £1.5 billion retained for allocation in the later years of the comprehensive spending review Alistair Burt: I have been asked to reply. period to pro-poor agricultural growth to mitigate the We are not aware of any current cases in Afghanistan likelihood of future food security crises. [65782] of individuals imprisoned for offences relating to conversion from Islam. Mr Andrew Mitchell: At least 16 of the Department We continue to work closely with international partners for International Development’s (DFID) bilateral to monitor the situation of Afghan Christians, and to programmes are currently planning programmes which raise this issue with the Afghan Government when will deliver improvements in the food security and appropriate. nutritional status of poor people in the countries concerned. DFID also provides significant support for food security Developing Countries: Agriculture through our investments in agricultural research and our contributions to the work of relevant multilateral Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for institutions such as the World Food Programme. Over International Development if he will consider investing the next four years, DFID’s support will stop 10 million some of the £1.5 billion retained by his Department for more children going hungry and ensure anther 4 million allocation in the later years of the comprehensive people have enough food throughout the year. 519W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 520W

DFID has further allocation decisions to make in the The Department for International Development (DFID) later years of the current spending review period. These is working in a number of countries such as Rwanda, decisions will be informed by the need to meet the Ethiopia, Bangladesh and Kenya to develop innovative conditions of DFID’s spending review settlement and new approaches designed to help girls increase the age to ensure that the Department’s business plan objectives of first marriage, delay the age of first birth, reduce are delivered. their overall fertility rate and ensure that they can manage their reproductive health during adolescence Developing Countries: Diabetes and beyond. DFID is also supporting long-term research on how to improve access to family planning for adolescent Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for girls. International Development what steps he is taking to promote improved diagnosis and treatment of diabetes Health Services: Finance in developing countries. [65650]

Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Development’s (DFID) focus is on improving the health International Development what methodology his of the poor through support to Governments and other Department used to estimate that 25 per cent. of its organisations to deliver health services. We believe that health funding supports human resources for health. by strengthening health services so that they are better [65783] able to diagnose and treat all major causes of ill health including diabetes we will improve health outcomes. Mr O’Brien: The estimate that 25% of the Department Developing Countries: Marriage for International Development’s (DFID) health funding supports human resources for health (HRH) was drawn from data analysis undertaken for DFID’s 2009 Health Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Portfolio Review. A desk-based analysis of Overseas International Development what steps he plans to take Development Assistance in the 2008-09 financial year to reduce the incidence of early and forced marriage in was used to quantify the volume and percentage of developing countries. [64151] DFID spending on “aid to health” that was committed Mr Andrew Mitchell: Investing in adolescent girls, to HRH spending across all countries. In addition, an including delaying the age of marriage and first pregnancy, in-depth review of HRH programming in four countries is a central part of DFID’s Strategic Vision for Girls and a survey of HRH programming across 12 countries and Women. were used to test the assumptions made in the desk-based analysis. In Ethiopia, DFID is taking to scale a successful pilot, supported by the Nike Foundation. The scaled up The Health Portfolio Review can be found at: programme will delay marriage for 220,000 girls in two http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/News-Stories/2010/ specific locations, with the vision to expand to the entire Health-portfolio-review-2009/ Amhara region—which has the highest rate of child marriage in Sub-Saharan Africa. Horn of Africa: Agriculture DFID is also supporting the Population Council’s Transitions to Adulthood programme, which is addressing Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for child marriage. The programme works with communities International Development what steps his Department in Bangladesh, Ethiopia, India, Kenya and Nigeria, to is taking to increase long-term resilience in the national foster an environment that is supportive of later marriage. agricultural systems of the countries of the Horn of The programme offers families the resources and options Africa for the purposes of reducing the effects of they need to defer marriage, while also supporting potential future food crises. [65585] married girls by addressing the isolation and disempowerment that characterizes their situation. Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International Developing Countries: Maternity Services Development (DFID) has provided a £10 million grant to the African Union’s Comprehensive Africa Agriculture Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Development Program (CAADP) to boost agricultural International Development what steps his Department productivity and improve resilience to food insecurity in is taking to meet the commitment in the Framework Africa. CAADP is working with the national agricultural for Results on improving reproductive, maternal and systems in Ethiopia and Kenya, among other African newborn health to raise the average age at which girls countries, to define strategies for halving hunger and achieving increases of 6% in agricultural growth each first marry and conceive. [64152] year through policy reform and better investment. For Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Framework for Results example latest figures we have from 2009 show that recognises the risks associated with adolescent pregnancy annual agricultural growth rates were 6% in Ethiopia and highlights the importance of ensuring that adolescents and 3% in Kenya. have control over their fertility. Adolescent pregnancy is DFID also provides resilience through country led not only dangerous for the health of the mother and the programmes in Africa. In Ethiopia we support the child but also has other consequences, such as the Productive Safety Net Programme which provides cash mother dropping out of school and damaging her future and food transfers to around 8 million vulnerable people, opportunities to participate in the labour market. It can while in Kenya we are supporting more than 60,000 of also have an adverse affect on their status as well as on the most vulnerable households by providing regular the children and their wider communities. cash payments through our Hunger Safety Net Programme. 521W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 522W

Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Andrew Mitchell: Our central recording systems International Development how much funding for do not capture such detail for project expenditure. The climate change adaption and mitigation finance his UK Government have committed to providing £1.5 Department has provided to smallholder farmers in the billion in Fast Start finance over the period 2010-12, to Horn of Africa in (a) absolute amounts and (b) as a help the developing world carry out the urgent work proportion of overall climate change funding in (i) needed to adapt to climate change, adopt clean technology 2010-11 and (ii) 2011-12. [65586] and reduce emissions from deforestation. 50% of this will help developing countries adapt to climate change, Mr Andrew Mitchell: Our central recording systems a significant share of which is designed to benefit do not capture such detail for project expenditure. The smallholder farmers. UK Government have committed to providing £1.5 billion The Department for International Development (DFID) in Fast Start finance over the period 2010-12, to help recognises that smallholder farmers are particularly the developing world carry out the urgent work needed vulnerable to climate change. For example, DFID funded to adapt to climate change, adopt clean technology and researchers in Ethiopia are working with farmers to reduce emissions from deforestation. 50% of this will make better decisions in the face of risks from drought. help developing countries adapt to climate change, a In Kenya DFID supports research on improved early significant share of which is designed to benefit smallholder warning so that farmers can adjust their cropping strategies farmers. to increase production. The Department for International Development (DFID) recognises that smallholder farmers are particularly Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for vulnerable to climate change. For example, DFID funded International Development how much and what proportion researchers in Ethiopia are working with farmers to of its funding for climate change adaptation and mitigation make better decisions in the face of risks from drought. his Department has provided to small holder farmers in In Kenya DFID supports research on improved early the Horn of Africa in the latest period for which figures warning so that farmers can adjust their cropping strategies are available. [65781] to increase production. Mr Andrew Mitchell: Our central recording systems Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for do not capture such detail for project expenditure. The International Development what steps his Department UK Government have committed to providing £1.5 is taking to develop long-term resilience into the billion in Fast Start finance over the period 2010-12, to national agricultural systems of countries in the Horn help the developing world carry out the urgent work of Africa. [65734] needed to adapt to climate change, adopt clean technology and reduce emissions from deforestation. 50% of this Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International will help developing countries adapt to climate change, Development (DFID) has provided a £10 million grant a significant share of which is designed to benefit to the African Union’s Comprehensive Africa Agriculture smallholder farmers. Development Programme (CAADP) to boost agricultural The Department for International Development (DFID) productivity and improve resilience to food insecurity in recognises that smallholder farmers are particularly Africa. CAADP is working with the national agricultural vulnerable to climate change. For example, DFID funded systems in Ethiopia and Kenya, among other African researchers in Ethiopia are working with farmers to countries, to define strategies for halving hunger and make better decisions in the face of risks from drought. achieving increases of 6% in agricultural growth each In Kenya DFID supports research on improved early year through policy reform and better investment. For warning so that farmers can adjust their cropping strategies example latest figures we have from 2009 show that to increase production. annual agricultural growth rates where 6% in Ethiopia and 3% in Kenya. Horn of Africa: Human Rights DFID also provides resilience through country-led programmes in Africa. In Ethiopia we support the Anas Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for Productive Safety Net Programme which provides cash International Development what consultation he is and food transfers to around eight million vulnerable undertaking on a joint response to the humanitarian people, while in Kenya we are supporting more than crisis in the Horn of Africa. [66221] 60,000 of the most vulnerable households by providing regular cash payments through our Hunger Safety Net Mr Andrew Mitchell: The British Government are in Programme. regular contact with UK non-government organisation Horn of Africa: Climate Change (NGOs) in Ethiopia, Kenya and Somalia to discuss joint working and co-ordination in response to the humanitarian crisis in the Horn of Africa. I anticipate Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for an official announcement on humanitarian funding in International Development how much funding for response to the crisis in Somalia over the coming days. climate change adaptation and mitigation finance his Department has provided to smallholder farmers in the Horn of Africa in each of the last four financial years Overseas Aid (a) in cash terms and (b) as a proportion of overall funding provided by his Department for climate change Anas Sarwar: To ask the Secretary of State for mitigation; and how much funding he plans to allocate International Development (1) if he will reconsider his for such purposes in each year of the comprehensive decision to end funding to the Consortium of British spending review period. [65735] Humanitarian Agencies; [66222] 523W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 524W

(2) what pre-qualification mechanism his Department Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for will use when allocating funding to non-governmental International Development whether his Department organisations during the first 72 hours of a humanitarian monitors the number of tuberculosis deaths among crisis; [66223] people (a) with and (b) without HIV. [65779] (3) what plans his Department has to help the work of (a) UK non-governmental organisations (NGOs) Mr O’Brien: The UK works with its partners, particularly and (b) NGO consortia in responding to humanitarian UNAIDS, the World Health Organisation (WHO) and disasters. [66224] affected countries, to track global progress on HIV and TB. WHO and UNAIDS have the mandate to monitor global progress on reducing deaths and illness from TB Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Consortium of British and TB-HIV and WHO reports on global tuberculosis Humanitarian Agencies (CBHA) funding will finish as control annually. planned in April 2012. As a result of the Humanitarian Emergency Response Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for Review (HERR) the Government have decided to establish International Development whether his Department two new funding mechanisms for non-governmental plans to provide assistance to the UNAIDS and Stop organisations (NGOs): a new facility that will enable TB partnership’s goal of reducing tuberculosis deaths prequalified NGOs and charities to respond to crises of people with HIV. [65780] within the first 72 hours; and, a new mechanism to support the strongest performing British NGOs to improve Mr O’Brien: In ‘Towards zero infections: The UK’s timeliness and quality of responses to humanitarian position paper on HIV in the developing World’ the UK crises. Government stated that the UK will contribute to the UNAIDS and Stop TB Partnership’s goal of reducing For both mechanisms we would welcome applications HIV-related TB among people living with HIV by 50% by NGO consortia. by 2015. We also made clear that the UK will maintain The prequalification process will involve compliance our funding to UNAIDS and the World Health with a series of eligibility and suitability criteria, and Organisation and increase our contribution to the Global demonstration of past results. Together these will determine Fund to Fights AIDS, TB and malaria pending if the organisation in question has the correct policy implementation of crucial reforms, as outlined in the approach and experience to provide the most effective multilateral aid review. and value for money response. Funding decisions for The UK Government committed £4.5 million over prequalified NGOs will be based on need and will three years, (2008-11) to the Stop TB Partnership to depend on the nature of the emergency. support the delivery of the Global Plan to Stop TB We will also increase our policy dialogue with NGOs whose goal is to halve deaths due to tuberculosis by and other civil society groups, including diaspora groups. 2015. We are in discussions with the Stop TB Partnership Dialogue will focus on United Nations (UN) reform on a new funding cycle. and on improving humanitarian response more generally. We will actively support efforts by NGOs themselves to resolve the problems posed by their multiplicity in humanitarian emergencies, particularly NGO co-ordination FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE and accreditation. Afghanistan: Drugs Tuberculosis: Disease Control Mr Frank Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what expenditure Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for his Department has incurred on the National Drug International Development what plans his Department Control Strategy Programme in Afghanistan in the last has to (a) prevent the spread of tuberculosis, (b) 12 months. [66255] prevent deaths from tuberculosis and (c) track tuberculosis patients living (i) with and (ii) without HIV. [65778] Alistair Burt: The UK supports the implementation of the Government of Afghanistan’s National Drug Control Strategy (NDCS) in a number of areas including Mr O’Brien: The UK Government highlighted their support for law enforcement agencies, targeting of poppy commitment to supporting global efforts to halve eradication, promoting economic development and tuberculosis (TB) deaths by 2015 in ‘UK aid: Changing alternative livelihoods, and building the capacity of lives delivering results’. The recently launched ‘Towards central and provincial government departments. zero infections; the UK’s position paper on HIV in the developing world’ outlines how the UK will contribute Foreign and Commonwealth Office funding for this to the UNAIDS and Stop TB Partnership goal of support currently comes from two sources: Conflict reducing HIV-related TB among people living with Pool (tri-departmentally funded by the Foreign and HIV by 50% by 2015. This will be done through UK Commonwealth Office, the Department for International multilateral and bilateral support to help deliver the Development and the Ministry of Defence); and the Global Plan to Stop Tuberculosis 2011-15. We work Strategic Programme Fund. with our partners, particularly UNAIDS, the World Total spend on support to the implementation of the Health Organisation and affected countries, to track NDCS from both these sources for the financial year global progress on HIV and TB. 2010-11 was £28.1 million. 525W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 526W

Andy Coulson Bahrain on 25 May 2011. Our outgoing ambassador to Bahrain has also raised our concerns at the highest level with the Government of Bahrain. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) meetings We repeatedly urge the Bahrainis that due process and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special should be carefully and transparently followed in the advisers in his Department attended which were also ongoing trials. In this context, we welcome the Government attended by Mr Andrew Coulson (A) between 12 May of Bahrain’s decision to hold the remaining trials in 2010 and 21 January 2011 and (B) since 21 January civilian courts. 2011. [66167] Brahmaputra River: Hydroelectric Power Mr Lidington: As has been the practice of previous Barry Gardiner: To ask the Secretary of State for Administrations information relating to internal meetings, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions discussion and advice is not normally disclosed. his Department has had with the Chinese Government I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s on its hydroelectric and diversionary plans for the statement to the House on 13 July 2011, Official Report, Brahmaputra river. [64330] columns 311-338. Mr Jeremy Browne: The British embassy in Beijing Bahrain: Politics and Government has discussed this issue with Chinese academics and with the Indian embassy in Beijing. But to date we have not had any direct discussions with the Chinese Government Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign on their hydroelectric and diversionary plans for the and Commonwealth Affairs with reference to the statement Brahmaputra river. by the Minister for the Middle East on 22 June 2011, what representations he has made to the Bahraini authorities British Nationals Abroad: Homicide on the sentencing of the 21 Bahraini civilians. [65384] Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: We have raised our concerns about the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what funds his arrests of protestors and medical staff, including when Department has set aside to support the families of the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth British citizens killed abroad. [64226] Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), met the Crown Prince of Bahrain Mr Jeremy Browne: We are finalising arrangements on 25 May 2011. Our outgoing ambassador to Bahrain to enhance our relationship with the Victim Support has also raised our concerns over the conduct of the National Homicide Service by providing funding of up trials with the Government of Bahrain, at the highest to £100,000 per year for financial years 2011-12 and level. On 29 June 2011, Official Report, columns 957-61, 2012-13 to enable them to commission services on behalf the Secretary of State made a statement to the House of of bereaved families in England and Wales when a Commons expressing the UK’s concerns about the British national dies as a result of murder, manslaughter suspension and investigation of political parties, the or infanticide abroad. imprisonment of leading moderate politicians, the alleged mistreatment of detainees and the trial of members of British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation the medical profession before tribunals containing a military judge. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what (a) meetings Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and (b) other engagements (i) Ministers and (ii) special and Commonwealth Affairs with reference to the advisers in his Department attended which were also statement by the Minister for the Middle East on attended by (A) representatives, (B) journalists and (C) 22 June 2011, what reports he has received on the other employees of (1) News International and its sentence given to Abdulhadi Al Khawaja; and if he will subsidiary organisations including newspapers, (2) make a statement. [65386] News Corporation and its subsidiary organisations and (3) BSkyB since 12 May 2010. [66165] Alistair Burt: I am aware of the sentence received by Mr Al Khawaja, and am deeply concerned by the Mr Lidington: As has been the practice of previous nature of the charges brought against him and the Administrations information relating to internal meetings, 20 other political figures. We continue to raise our discussion and advice is not normally disclosed. concerns over the conduct of the trials. The Secretary of I refer the hon. Member to the Prime Minister’s State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right statement to the House on 13 July 2011, Official Report, hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr columns 311-338. Hague) made a statement to the House of Commons on 29 June 2011, Official Report, columns 957-61, expressing Burma: Politics and Government the UK’s concerns about the suspension and investigation of political parties, the imprisonment of leading moderate Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for politicians, the alleged mistreatment of detainees and Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is the trial of members of the medical profession before taking to encourage the regime in Burma to (a) cease tribunals containing a military judge. The Foreign Secretary threats to Aung San Suu Kyi and the National League also raised our concerns about the arrests of protestors for Democracy and (b) guarantee her safe and free and medical staff when he met the Crown Prince of movement around the country. [66265] 527W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 528W

Mr Jeremy Browne: In response to veiled threats in Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State the Burmese state media towards the National League for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has for Democracy and Aung San Suu Kyi, the Secretary of discussed the adequacy of the Emergency Disaster State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right Reserve system with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr [64921] Hague), issued a statement on 30 June. He reminded the Burmese authorities that Aung San Suu Kyi should be Mr Hague: I and other Foreign and Commonwealth able to travel freely without risk to her personal safety Office Ministers regularly discuss our responses to consular and that the authorities’ stance was at odds with their crises including the Emergency Disaster Reserve system message on dialogue and reconciliation. He reminded with Ministers from Her Majesty’s Treasury including the Burmese Government that the safety and security of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend all Burma’s people is their responsibility. Foreign and the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne). Commonwealth officials raised this issue with the Burmese ambassador on 8 July. Our embassy in Rangoon continues to monitor the situation and remains in close touch India: Prisoners with Aung San Suu Kyi and the National League for Democracy. Emma Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Coordination Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he raised the case of Professor Davinderpal Singh Bhullar Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of during his meeting with his Indian counterpart on 30 State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what June 2011. [65245] steps he has taken to strengthen working relationships between officials in his Department and those in the Mr Jeremy Browne: The Secretary of State for Foreign Department for International Development. [64918] and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), did not Mr Hague: Officials in the Foreign and Commonwealth discuss Mr Bhullar’s case with Indian Foreign Minster Office (FCO) and in the Department for International Krishna when they met on 30 June. I wrote to the Development (DFID) work closely together, both in Indian high commissioner on 20 June, reiterating the London and across our respective networks overseas. UK Government’s strong opposition to the death penalty The National Security Council process has embedded and urging the Government of India to reconsider Mr joint working at ministerial and official level in London. Bhullar’s sentence. I have also raised our concerns with Overseas, the FCO and DFID are co-located in two Indian Foreign Secretary Rao on 28 June, and with thirds of those countries where DFID is present. We are Indian Minister of State for External Affairs Preneet promoting shared services, joint working and joint Kaur on 5 July. We continue to urge the Government of programming, including on joint conflict-related activity India to establish a formal moratorium as a first step in the Peacekeeping and Conflict Pool tri-departmental towards the abolition of the death penalty in India. (FCO-DFID-MOD) funding mechanisms.

Departmental Statistics Indonesia: Minority Groups

Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what statistical Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for data his Department has ceased to collect in the 12 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions months; and what the (a) reasons for and (b) savings he has had with his counterparts in the Government of Indonesia on the protection of minority communities arising from each such cessation were. [63667] such as the Ahmadiyya community in that country. Mr Lidington: This information is not held centrally [65487] and is available only at disproportionate cost because this is devolved to our missions overseas and to individual Mr Jeremy Browne: We have strong relations with the directorates and strategic programmes within the UK. Government of Indonesia and this includes raising any issues of concern, including freedom of religion, both Emergency Disaster Reserve bilaterally and through the European Union (EU). Our ambassador raised freedom of religion concerns Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State with the Indonesian Attorney-General on 21 April 2011. for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment On 5 May 2011, the EU in Jakarta held a meeting for he has made of the adequacy of the Emergency Disaster EU partners with members of the Ahmadiyya community Reserve system in supporting evacuation operations. that were subjected to a violent attack in February [64920] 2011. Mr Hague: The adequacy of the Emergency Disaster Tackling discrimination and protecting minority Reserve system was considered as part of the Review of communities was also discussed with the Indonesian Consular Evacuation Procedures that I instructed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at the EU-Indonesia Human Foreign and Commonwealth Office to carry out on Rights Dialogue in Brussels on 9 March 2011. 23 February 2011. A copy of the review was placed in Along with our EU partners, we continue to call for the House on 4 July 2011, Official Report, column religious tolerance across Indonesia and to press the 74WS. I have given instructions that its recommendations authorities to ensure respect for the rights of all religious should be implemented in full by 31 December 2011. minorities. 529W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 530W

Iran: Baha’i Faith Mr Hague: Our top priorities in Gaza are to ensure that aid reaches those who need it, and, that, homes, Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign schools, hospitals and other essential buildings are rebuilt. and Commonwealth Affairs what recent representations All parties to the conflict need to respect international he has made to the Iranian government on the (a) humanitarian law and allow full and unhindered access recent raids on the Baha’i Institute for Higher Education for humanitarian aid and aid workers. and (b) detention of 11 of its staff and faculty members. Israel’s decision to move from a list of 120 permitted [66249] goods to a list of specific prohibited items was a positive step. However there has been no fundamental change in Alistair Burt: We are concerned by Iranian action to the crossings regime and economic stagnation and shut down the Baha’i Institute of Higher Education. de-development in Gaza remain the norm. We are clear We raised this issue with the Iranian Chargé d’Affaires that more needs to be done, particularly to enable on 25 May 2011 making clear that we wanted persecution exports, accelerate key imports for reconstruction and of the Baha’is to cease. We will continue to call on Iran ensure free movement of people. to respect the full and equal rights of its people regardless of their faith or ethnicity in line with its international The UK continues to press the Israeli Government, obligations. bilaterally and by working with others such as the EU, on the issue. We will be working alongside our EU Libya: Armed Conflict partners with Israel to achieve the real changes on the ground that we are looking for. Without economic Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State growth in Gaza, there is a risk of fostering a more for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs in what broadly radicalised environment. An improved economy international structures his Department is participating and a resurgence of Gaza’s pragmatic business community to undertake post-conflict planning for Libya. [60076] are not only essential for the people of Gaza, but are also firmly in Israel’s security interests. Mr Hague: Post-conflict stabilisation in Libya must We are taking practical steps to improve access to be owned by the Libyan people, with the UN co-ordinating Gaza through our support to the UN Access Coordination international support. The UN will lead on post-conflict Unit, our capacity building work with the Palestinian planning and the UK is in close contact with them both Authority and our work with the Office of the Quartet in London and through our network of Posts. As a Representative on confidence building measures to facilitate member of the UN Security Council, the EU, NATO exports from Gaza. and the Libya Contact Group, the UK is helping to shape the international effort in post-conflict Libya. The International Stabilisation Response Team, which recently visited Benghazi to identify stabilisation challenges Politics and Government facing the Libyan people, will help identify areas where the international community can support Libya during the transition period. The UK participated in this Team, Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for along with Italy, Australia, Denmark, the US and Turkey. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he has made of the security situation in (a) Middle East: Peace Negotiations Yemen and (b) Somalia. [65686]

Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: The UK Government remain extremely Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is concerned about the situation in Yemen. Following the on recognition of a Palestinian state. [66266] attack on President Saleh’s mosque on 3 June the President is currently receiving medical treatment in Alistair Burt: The unprecedented changes of the Arab Saudi Arabia. Since President Saleh left Yemen on 4 spring make progress on the peace process more urgent June, the capital has experienced a welcome lull in the than ever. President Obama has called for the parties to fierce inter-factional fighting seen in previous months. return to the table for negotiations based on 1967 But the situation elsewhere in Yemen remains tense. The borders with agreed swaps and security arrangements Yemeni cities of Taiz and Aden have seen continuing that protect Israel and respect Palestinian sovereignty. fierce fighting. The Yemeni Government admit that The UK backs this call. they have lost security control over five governorates. We urge all parties to seize this moment of opportunity Yemeni security forces are fighting to contain attempts and return as soon as possible to direct negotiations. As by Islamic militants and others to control the towns of I told all sides during my visit to the region on 27 June-1 Zinjibar and Ja’ar in Abyan governorate. Continuing July, we do not know if there will be a resolution in conflict is exacerbating the serious humanitarian crisis September, or what it will look like—so we have not that Yemen already faces. made any decisions. Instead we urge both sides to look towards the things that are necessary to get a negotiated Nonetheless, we continue to work with the Vice President settlement and to return to talks as soon as possible. and other key players in the Government and opposition to secure the political change that Yemen so badly Palestinians needs. We continue to urge Vice President Hadi to engage with all sides to begin a peaceful political transition Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State on the basis of the Gulf Co-operation Council agreement. for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent We encourage all sides to participate in an inclusive assessment he has made of levels of (a) access for aid dialogue as a way forward and to refrain from further to and (b) legitimate trade with the Gaza Strip. [60225] violent clashes. 531W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 532W

Given the unstable security environment we advise Member for Braintree during his visit to Syria in June against all travel to Yemen at this time and strongly urge 2011 to meet President Assad of Syria. [64836] all British nationals to leave the country now while commercial carriers are still flying. Mr Hague: The Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s There is ongoing serious violence, dangerous levels of Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Braintree criminal activity and general internal insecurity in the (Mr Newmark), travelled to Syria and met President southern and central regions of Somalia, and there are Assad in a private capacity, Our embassy in Damascus regular outbreaks of inter-clan violence and a high did not provide any material support for his visit, but threat from terrorism throughout Somalia. We advise did provide him with an oral briefing to make clear the against all travel to Somalia, including Somaliland. UK position on the unacceptable violence in Syria and the steps we think the Syrian regime should take to stop However, African Union Mission in Somalia (AMISOM) the violence and begin meaningful political reform. has made good progress in recent months to secure Mogadishu. At present, AMISOM controls roughly Syria: Arms Trade 60% of Mogadishu’s territory, home to around 80% of its population. I commend the bravery of AMISOM troops, and am encouraging the Transitional Federal Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Government to ensure that they build on these security Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he gains to promote further stability in Mogadishu. Security has received on the (a) extent and (b) nature of the and governance is also improving in Somaliland, as use of Russian-made arms by the Government of Syria demonstrated by its recent successful and peaceful in the suppression of protests; and if he will make a presidential elections. statement. [65885] Piracy in the Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean continues Alistair Burt: We have received no specific reports on to be a significant threat, especially for shipping which the extent and nature of the use of Russian made does not take appropriate precautions or follow agreed military arms by the Government of Syria although shipping industry best practice guidelines. Syria’s armed forces are primarily supplied with equipment South Africa: Trials from the former Soviet Union. The UK strongly supported the adoption of EU Kwasi Kwarteng: To ask the Secretary of State for restrictive measures on Syria, which included an arms Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has embargo and restrictions on the supply of equipment made representations to the South African authorities which could be used for internal repression. In addition, on the trial of Shrien Dewani. [62225] the UK supported an EU wide asset freeze and travel ban against individuals and entities responsible for, and Mr Jeremy Browne: Shrien Dewani’s case is a matter associated with, the unacceptable violence and ongoing for the judicial authorities in the UK and in South repression against the civilian population in Syria. Africa. We have made no representations to the South African authorities on this matter. We do however Syria: Politics and Government continue to follow the case closely. We have provided consular assistance to Mr Dewani and his family, and Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for we will provide consular support to Mr Dewani should Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what he return to South Africa. representations he has made to the Syrian Government on arrests and house raids in the city of Hama. [65436] Sudan: Politics and Government Alistair Burt: As the Secretary of State for Foreign Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) said in a with his South African counterpart that country’s statement on 5 July 2011: involvement in the demilitarisation of the Abyei region ″Violent repression in Hama will only further undermine the of Sudan. [62326] regime’s legitimacy and raise serious questions about whether it is committed to the reforms it has recently announced. No meaningful Mr Jeremy Browne: The Secretary of State for Foreign political dialogue can take place while there is a brutal military and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the crackdown. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), and his The UK has made clear that President Assad must reform or South African counterpart, Ms Maite Nkoana-Mashabane, step aside. If the regime continues to choose the path of brutal discussed Sudan, including Abyei, at the recent UK-South repression, pressure from the international community will only ″ Africa bilateral forum. There have also been ongoing increase. discussions between British Ministers and ex-President My officials in Damascus regularly raise with the Thabo Mbeki in his Chair of the African Union Higher Syrian Government the indiscriminate violence perpetrated Implementation Panel, which is helping to mediate against peaceful demonstrators, calling for the regime between the two parties to the comprehensive peace to show restraint and to respond to the legitimate agreement. demands of his people with immediate and genuine reform, not with brutal repression. Syria Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what support discussions he has had with Amnesty International on the British embassy in Damascus offered to the hon. the political situation in Syria. [65689] 533W Written Answers14 JULY 2011 Written Answers 534W

Alistair Burt: I refer the hon. Member to my answer Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs Special Representative of 12 July 2011, Official Report, column 258W. on Human Rights at the 19th Round of the UK-China human rights dialogue in January. Tibet: Politics and Government Yemen Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has to meet Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for with the newly-elected leader of the Tibetan Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what objectives he Government. [65942] has set for his policy on Yemen. [65687]

Mr Jeremy Browne: There are no plans to invite the Alistair Burt: Our overall objective is securing a more Kalon Tripa to the UK. Since 1980 the UK has not peaceful and stable Yemen, which presents a reduced accorded recognition to governments; we only accord risk to UK interests at home and in the region. Our recognition to states. So no question of our recognising work focuses on achieving a peaceful settlement to the the Tibetan Government in exile can arise. current political stalemate; halting the country’s decline into state failure; and working with the Yemeniauthorities Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and others to disrupt Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula’s and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions his activities and operations. This is proving extremely difficult Department has held with the Chinese government on in the current volatile security climate in Yemen. Given its future relations with the Tibetan government. our serious concerns about the security situation, we [65943] have drawn down our embassy to a small core team. That said, we continue to work with the Vice President Mr Jeremy Browne: While we recognise Tibet as part and other key players in the Government and opposition of the People’s Republic of China, we believe long-term to secure the political change that Yemen so badly stability in Tibet can only be achieved through respect needs. We continue to urge Vice President Hadi to for human rights and genuine autonomy for Tibet within engage with all sides to begin a peaceful political transition the framework of the Chinese constitution. We have on the basis of the Gulf Co-operation Council agreement. urged the Chinese Government to engage in meaningful We encourage all sides to participate in an inclusive dialogue with the Dalai Lama’s representatives as the dialogue as a way forward and to refrain from further best way to make this happen. I raised this with the violent clashes.

5MC Ministerial Corrections14 JULY 2011 Ministerial Corrections 6MC Ministerial Correction Letter of correction from Nick Clegg: An error has been identified in the written answer given to the right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) Thursday 14 July 2011 on 5 July 2011. The full answer given was as follows: The Deputy Prime Minister: There were 14 members of staff employed in my private office on 31 July 2010. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER The precise figures for 5 July 2010 are not available. There were 17 members of staff employed in my private office on 30 June 2011. Departmental Staff The correct answer should have been: 15. Mr Spellar: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister The Deputy Prime Minister: There were 14 members how many staff were employed in his office on (a) 5July of staff employed in my private office on 31 July 2010. 2010 and (b) the most recent date for which figures are The precise figures for 5 July 2010 are not available. available. [63501] There were 16 members of staff employed in my private [Official Report, 5 July 2011, Vol. 530, c. 1161W.] office on 30 June 2011.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 14 July 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 447 BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Apprenticeships ...... 454 Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 461 Apprenticeships ...... 455 Manufacturing...... 459 Apprenticeships ...... 457 Open University...... 447 Azerbaijan (Investment)...... 452 Regional Growth Fund ...... 462 Construction Industry...... 459 Regulation and Growth (Northern Ireland) ...... 461 Employment Law...... 456 Regulation (EU Directives) ...... 450 Engineering...... 450 Space Sector...... 454 Green Investment...... 448 Topical Questions ...... 463 Green Investment Bank ...... 453 Women (Corporate Boards) ...... 458 Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 451 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 14 July 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 36WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 49WS Affordable Homes Programme...... 36WS Code of Practice (Examining Officers)...... 49WS Building Stock ...... 37WS Criminal Records Bureau (Annual Report and Firebuy Ltd...... 36WS Accounts) ...... 49WS Direct Airside Transit Regime (Yemen)...... 49WS CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 37WS Independent Police Complaints Commission...... 50WS Horserace Totalisator Board ...... 38WS Remote Gambling...... 37WS JUSTICE...... 50WS Justice’s of the Peace Act 1949 (Compensation) DEFENCE...... 39WS Regulations...... 51WS Defence Vetting Agency...... 39WS Office for Judicial Complaints...... 50WS

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 51WS AFFAIRS...... 40WS Members’ Pensions ...... 51WS Agency Key Business Outcomes ...... 40WS DEFRA Agency (Annual Report and Accounts)... 40WS TRANSPORT ...... 52WS Hazardous Waste (National Policy Statement)...... 40WS Aviation Security...... 52WS Veterinary Residues Committee ...... 44WS Coastguard Modernisation ...... 54WS Humber Bridge (Debts) Order 2011...... 54WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 44WS South East Airports Taskforce...... 54WS Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council ...... 44WS TREASURY ...... 35WS Malawi (Bilateral Relations)...... 46WS Asset Protection Agency ...... 35WS Tax Consultations...... 35WS HEALTH...... 47WS Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 56WS Affairs Council ...... 47WS Informal Employment and Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council ...... 57WS HEALTH...... 48WS Social Fund Reports ...... 58WS ″Healthy Lives, Healthy People″...... 48WS Work Capability Assessment...... 56WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 14 July 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 467W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Bona Vacantia...... 467W Employment: Young People...... 497W Departmental Billing ...... 468W Entrepreneurs ...... 494W Departmental Freedom of Information ...... 469W High Street Review...... 497W Higher Education...... 498W Higher Education: Admissions ...... 498W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 494W Higher Education: York...... 500W Apprentices: Greater London ...... 496W Inward Investment ...... 494W Apprentices: Kettering ...... 496W Microbusiness ...... 495W Apprenticeships ...... 494W Space Sector...... 494W Copyright: Broadcasting ...... 497W Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS— Student Loans Company ...... 501W continued Angling: Licensing ...... 502W CABINET OFFICE...... 476W Animal Welfare ...... 503W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 476W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 503W Government Departments: Procurement ...... 477W Bovine Tuberculosis: Vaccinations ...... 505W New Businesses: Romsey...... 477W British Waterways Board...... 505W Pay: York ...... 477W British Waterways Board: Freedom of Information ...... 506W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 471W Carbon Emissions...... 506W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 471W Coastal Areas: Public Footpaths...... 507W Departmental Dismissal...... 471W Coastal Erosion: East Sussex ...... 508W Enterprise Zones...... 472W Crops: Research ...... 508W Fire Services: Finance ...... 472W Departmental Consultants...... 508W Health Inequalities...... 472W Dogs: Sales...... 509W Homelessness...... 473W Eggs: Labelling ...... 509W Housing: Older People ...... 473W Farmers: Carbon Emissions...... 510W Local Government: Debts...... 474W Fertilisers ...... 510W Local Government Finance ...... 473W Fertilisers: Grasslands...... 511W Local Government: Procurement ...... 474W Food ...... 511W Local Government Resource Review...... 473W Food: Origin Marking...... 512W Non-domestic Rates: Durham ...... 474W Foxes: Disease Control...... 512W Recycling: Schools ...... 475W Horticulture ...... 513W Social Rented Housing...... 475W Marine Conservation Zones...... 513W Nitrates ...... 515W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 465W Producer Responsibility ...... 515W Broadband ...... 465W Rabbits: EU Law...... 516W Broadband: Scotland ...... 465W Reservoirs ...... 516W Broadband: YouView...... 465W Shooting: Weather...... 516W Mass Media: Privacy...... 466W Squirrels...... 517W Royal Parks...... 466W Tourism: VAT ...... 466W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 524W Video Games...... 466W Afghanistan: Drugs...... 524W Andy Coulson...... 525W DEFENCE...... 427W Bahrain: Politics and Government ...... 525W Cybercrime ...... 427W Brahmaputra River: Hydroelectric Power ...... 526W Cybercrime: Manpower ...... 427W British Nationals Abroad: Homicide ...... 526W Defence Science and Technology Laboratory...... 428W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 526W Departmental Pay ...... 428W Burma: Politics and Government ...... 526W Disclosure of Information ...... 429W Departmental Coordination...... 527W Electronic Data Systems ...... 429W Departmental Statistics...... 527W Marines...... 430W Emergency Disaster Reserve ...... 527W Medals ...... 430W India: Prisoners...... 528W Military Aircraft ...... 431W Indonesia: Minority Groups ...... 528W Military Police ...... 431W Iran: Baha’i Faith...... 529W Libya: Armed Conflict...... 529W EDUCATION...... 476W Middle East: Peace Negotiations...... 529W Departmental Regulation...... 476W Palestinians ...... 529W Politics and Government...... 530W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 487W South Africa: Trials...... 531W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 487W Sudan: Politics and Government...... 531W Carbon Emissions...... 488W Syria...... 531W Departmental Carbon Emissions ...... 488W Syria: Arms Trade...... 532W Energy...... 489W Syria: Politics and Government...... 532W Energy: Prices ...... 489W Tibet: Politics and Government...... 533W Fuel Poverty...... 490W Yemen ...... 534W Heat ...... 490W Meters...... 491W HEALTH...... 439W Meters: Radio Frequencies...... 491W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 439W North Sea Oil: Safety ...... 492W Carers ...... 439W Oil...... 492W Dementia: Bexley...... 440W Solar Power: Housing ...... 492W Dental Health: Devon...... 440W Tidal Power: Manpower...... 493W Health Authorities: Postgraduate Education...... 440W Wind Power ...... 493W Health Services ...... 441W Health Services: Freedom of Information...... 441W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Health Services: Standards...... 441W AFFAIRS...... 501W Hospitals: Waiting Lists...... 442W Agriculture: Carbon Emissions...... 501W Influenza: Vaccination ...... 444W Agriculture: Land Use ...... 502W Medical Records: Databases ...... 444W Air Pollution: Aviation...... 502W Members: Correspondence ...... 445W Ammonia: Carbon Emissions ...... 502W Mental Health...... 446W Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH—continued PRIME MINISTER—continued NHS: Drugs...... 446W Auschwitz-Birkenau Foundation’s Perpetual NHS: Training ...... 445W Fund ...... 450W North Yorkshire and York Primary Care Trust: News Corporation ...... 450W Finance...... 445W Nurses: Pay ...... 447W SCOTLAND...... 425W Primary Care Trusts: Manpower...... 449W Andy Coulson...... 425W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 425W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 455W Departmental Lost Property ...... 425W Alcoholic Drinks: Crime...... 455W Devolution...... 425W Asylum: Information and Communications Lloyd Banking Group: Redundancy ...... 426W Technology ...... 456W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 426W Departmental Contracts ...... 456W Trade Groups...... 426W Departmental Dismissal...... 457W EU Justice and Home Affairs...... 457W TRANSPORT ...... 431W Forensic Science Service: Closure...... 457W Business: Billing...... 431W Illegal Immigrants...... 458W Crown Relocations...... 431W John Hagee ...... 458W Cycling...... 431W Knives: Crime ...... 459W Dartford-Thurrock Crossing: Tolls ...... 432W Members: Correspondence ...... 459W Departmental Procurement...... 432W Raed Salah...... 459W Departmental Regulation...... 432W Young Offenders ...... 460W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 433W Electric Vehicles ...... 433W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Rail Value for Money Review...... 435W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 436W Railways: Halton...... 435W Members: Allowances ...... 436W Rescue Services: Expenditure ...... 435W Telephone Calls...... 437W Scotland...... 436W Shipping: EU Action...... 436W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 517W Afghanistan: Religious Freedom...... 517W TREASURY ...... 479W Developing Countries: Agriculture ...... 517W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 479W Developing Countries: Diabetes...... 519W Departmental Redundancy ...... 479W Developing Countries: Marriage...... 519W Departmental Regulation...... 480W Developing Countries: Maternity Services ...... 519W Departmental Visits Abroad ...... 483W Health Services: Finance...... 520W Energy: Prices ...... 483W Horn of Africa: Agriculture...... 520W Financial Services: Taxation ...... 484W Horn of Africa: Climate Change...... 521W Intestacy ...... 484W Horn of Africa: Human Rights ...... 522W Liverpool Cruise Terminal ...... 485W Overseas Aid...... 522W Loans: Belarus ...... 485W Tuberculosis: Disease Control...... 523W Members: Correspondence ...... 485W National Insurance: Income Tax...... 486W JUSTICE...... 450W Public Sector: Pensions ...... 486W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 450W Rescue Services: Diesel Fuel...... 486W Community Orders ...... 451W Taxation: Aviation ...... 487W Courts: Enforcement...... 451W Welfare Tax Credits...... 487W Data Protection...... 451W Welsh Assembly Government: Borrowing ...... 487W Departmental Compensation...... 452W Judicial Review: Costs...... 452W WALES...... 455W Legal Aid Scheme ...... 453W Welfare State: Reform ...... 455W Legal Aid Scheme: Immigration ...... 454W Members: Correspondence ...... 454W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 460W Privacy ...... 454W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 460W Probation ...... 455W Community Care Grants...... 460W Young Offenders: Remand in Custody...... 456W Habitual Residence ...... 461W Hewlett Packard ...... 461W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 438W Pensioners: Poverty ...... 462W British Sky Broadcasting: News Corporation...... 438W Social Security Benefits: Scotland ...... 464W Spotlight on Kinship Care ...... 464W PRIME MINISTER ...... 449W State Retirement Pensions: York ...... 464W Andy Coulson...... 449W Winter Fuel Payments: Carmarthenshire ...... 465W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Thursday 14 July 2011

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CONTENTS

Thursday 14 July 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 447] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills

Common Fisheries Policy [Col. 471] Answer to urgent question—(Richard Benyon)

Business of the House [Col. 482] Statement—(Sir George Young)

Coastguard Modernisation [Col. 506] Statement—(Mr Philip Hammond)

Sovereign Grant Bill (Allocation of Time) [Col. 526] Motion—(Mr George Osborne)—agreed to

Sovereign Grant Bill [Col. 531] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr George Osborne)—agreed to Considered in Committee; as amended, considered: read the Third time and passed

Petition [Col. 585]

Early Intervention [Col. 586] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Future of CDC [Col. 155WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 35WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 425W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 5MC]