CANADA VOLUME 135 S NUMBER 045 S 1st SESSION S 36th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Friday, December 5, 1997 Speaker: The Honourable Gilbert Parent CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire'' at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 2787 HOUSE OF COMMONS Friday, December 5, 1997 The House met at 10 a.m. against three additional candidates for the single opening for another votable bill. However, if we look at the process in more _______________ detail, the Chair is of the opinion that the member will not really suffer any prejudice. Prayers [English] _______________ First, we should note that unlike the draw itself, which is entirely D (1005 ) random, the selection of votable items is based on the merits of the bills or motions put forward by members. Indeed Standing Order PRIVILEGE 92(1) specifically states: PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BUSINESS—SPEAKER’S RULING In making its selection, the Committee—shall allow the merits of the items alone to determine the selection—. The Speaker: Colleagues, I am now ready to render a decision on the question of privilege raised by the hon. member for The merits of the member’s bill are not directly affected by the Sarnia—Lambton on December 4 concerning the draw for Private number of bills being considered by the subcommittee. Members’ Business. It is nonetheless true that the subcommittee is, on occasion, On December 4 the hon. member for Sarnia—Lambton rose on a unable to choose as many votable items as it might like because the question of privilege regarding a random draw to establish an order votable items selected after a previous draw remain in the order of of precedence for additional items on Private Members’ Business. precedence on the order paper. While ruling that the matter did not constitute a question of privilege, I undertook to return to the House after having examined As some of you may recall, the subcommittee in the previous the situation about which the hon. member complained. Parliament was put in the unenviable position of not having openings for additional votable items following a draw. Unfortu- Notice of the draw was given on Wednesday, in accordance with nately, votable items chosen at the same time all tend to remain on Standing Order 87(2), and the draw is scheduled to be held today at the order paper for approximately the same length of time, after 1.15 p.m. The member pointed out that a draw had recently been which several openings may be created within a short period of held on Tuesday, November 25, 1997, when 14 names were drawn. time when they are put to a vote. The subcommittee on private members’ business is planning to meet next week to begin the process of deciding which of the This is because all votable items may be debated for up to three members whose names were drawn on November 25 have items hours. How many openings for votable items exist at the time the which should be selected as votable. subcommittee meets to select additional votable items is something over which none of us have any control. The hon. member for Sarnia—Lambton pointed out that there were already only two openings for additional votable items, one Members should remember that although draws are usually held bill and one motion. By holding another draw at this time the when there are only 15 or 16 items remaining in the order of subcommittee might be faced with having even more items from precedence, the standing orders do not stipulate that a draw cannot which to choose, namely nine bills instead of six. This, the member be held sooner. Standing Order 87(2) provides that: suggests, would put him at a disadvantage. In effect, he would have to compete against a slightly larger field of candidates for what was The Clerk of the House, acting on behalf of the Speaker, shall, when necessary during a Session, conduct a random draw to establish an order of precedence for not already a very small number of openings. more than fifteen additional items of Private Members’ Business— [Translation] It is thus possible to conduct a draw even though there are more The member’s concern is not at all unreasonable. At first blush it than 15 items in the order of precedence, provided it is considered does appear that he might be disadvantaged by having to compete necessary to do so. 2788 COMMONS DEBATES December 5, 1997 Government Orders The principal reason for not holding draws more frequently than Sarnia—Lambton but will allow another member to have the we normally do is in order to limit the number of meetings of the opportunity to participate. subcommittee on private members’ business. _____________________________________________ D (1010 ) The order of precedence used to contain 20 items, but in the 34th Parliament this was increased to 30, the present number, precisely GOVERNMENT ORDERS because the subcommittee at that time wanted it so. [English] The Chair would point out that the subcommittee is by no means obliged to consider any new items placed in the order of prece- dence following today’s draw. The subcommittee may confine its CANADA MARINE ACT selection to the items added after the November 25th draw. Furthermore, members whose names are drawn later today will Hon. David M. Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.) have until the end of the day Tuesday to designate which of their moved that Bill C-9, an act for making the system of Canadian bills or motions are to be added to the order of precedence, and the ports competitive, efficient and commercially oriented, providing subcommittee has 10 sitting days following the draw before it must for the establishing of port authorities and the divesting of certain begin the process of selecting votable items. harbours and ports, for the commercialization of the St. Lawrence Seaway and ferry services and other matters related to maritime Moreover, and there is no way to predict this, some members trade and transport and amending the Pilotage Act and amending whose names are drawn may not wish to be considered by the and repealing other acts as a consequence, be read the third time subcommittee. They may prefer that their bills or motions not be and passed. designated votable. He said: Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure to be able to speak to members about Bill C-9 for this third reading debate. Before I talk The Chair would also draw members’ attention to the fact that about the bill I want to take a moment to acknowledge the critical the subcommittee may select an item as votable at any time before role that has been played by members of the House, in particular it is taken up by the House. Thus, if an item is not selected as those members of the House of Commons Standing Committee on votable by the subcommittee next week, it may still be selected in Transport, for their work on this bill, the very thoughtful improve- February. There may be more openings for votable items at that ments they have made which I think have illustrated very construc- time. tively the role that the committee system plays in our legislative process. Finally, the member suggested that since this draw is being held to remedy a problem arising from the accidental exclusion from the I also want to thank the critics for the other parties, the members previous draw of a member with a motion, then the proper course for Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Beauport—Montmorency—Or- would have been to conduct a draw for motions only. However, that léans, Cumberland—Colchester, and Churchill because they have would have meant that the number of bills in the order of all worked in a very collegial fashion. They have brought forward precedence would decrease faster than the number of motions, very sensible recommendations. Some of them we have accepted, causing more bills to be drawn next time. some for various reasons we have not accepted. In any event, it has been a very collegial process which I think is a testament to the way Since Standing Order 87(1)(b) stipulates: Parliament should work. —the draw shall be conducted so that there shall be in the order of precedence an D (1015 ) equal number of motions and bills originating in the House of Commons— All members have displayed a great diligence in working to The Chair is of the opinion that any draw should be held for both prepare what I consider to be a quality piece of legislation which bills and motions. will ensure the best marine transportation system for all Canadians. I thank the hon. member for bringing this matter to the attention There was also a great contribution made by the transportation of the House. This may seem to some like a lot of quibbling over community across the country. They stayed with us throughout the numbers and technical details, but it reminds us all that in length of the process. They really were in for the long haul. attempting to remedy a wrong done to one member, we must not cause harm to another. As you know, Mr. Speaker, this bill has been in the works for many years, in fact about three years, and we have seen it debated After considering the situation thoroughly, I am of the opinion twice in this House. It has been shepherded through that time not that the draw will not adversely affect the hon.