1 BOROUGH OF RINGWOOD CITY COUNCIL BUSINESS MEETING 2 Ringwood Borough City Hall 60 Margaret King Avenue 3 Ringwood, New Jersey 07456 4 ------: PURPOSE OF MEETING: : 5 : TO provide background and : TRANSCRIPT OF 6 complete information concerning: PROCEEDINGS past evaluation of O'Connor : 7 Disposal Area (OCDA). : ------: 8 DATE: May 3, 2016 9 Tuesday MAYOR & COUNCIL M E M B E R S: 10 JOHN M. SPEER, Mayor 11 JAMES MARTOCCI, Deputy Mayor DONNA S. ANDERSON 12 WILLIAM E. MARSALA SEAN T. NOONAN 13 LINDA M. SCHAEFER 14 ALSO PRESENT: 15 SCOTT HECK, Borough Manager, Director of Department 16 of Public Works LAWRA J. DODGE, (President, Excel Environmental 17 Resources, Environmental Consultant to Borough KELLEY HALEWICZ, RMC, Borough Clerk 18 APPEARANCES: 19 WANDA CHIN MONAHAN, ESQ., Environmental Counsel to 20 Borough 21 22 ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. Certified Court Reporters & Videographers 23 425 Eagle Rock Ave. Roseland, NJ 07068 24 (973) 228-9100 1-800-662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 25 2 4 1 I N D E X 1 MAYOR SPEER: Here. 2 Page 2 MS. HALEWICZ: Deputy Mayor Martocci? 3 Opening Comments by Mayor Speer 4 3 DEPUTY MAYOR MARTOCCI: Here. 4 Presentation by Mr. Heck 7 5 4 MS. HALEWICZ: Council Members. Anderson? 6 Presentation by Ms. Dodge 22 5 MS. ANDERSON: Here. 7 6 MS. HALEWICZ: Marsala? 8 Presentation by Ms. Monahan 51 9 7 MR. MARSALA: Here. 10 MEMBERS OF PUBLIC 8 MS. HALEWICZ: Noonan? 11 9 MR. NOONAN: Here. 12 10 MS. HALEWICZ: Schaefer? 13 Lad Bell 88,177 Al Connelly 102 11 MS. SCHAEFER: Here. 14 Lisa Chiang 110 12 MAYOR SPEER: Also present, Borough Manager, David Wunsch 117 13 Director of the Department of Public Works, Scott Heck; 15 Robin Canetti 123 Robert Ferretti 130 14 Deputy Borough Manager/Borough Clerk, Kelley Halewizc; 16 Vivian Milligan 134 15 Borough Attorney, Richard J. Clemack; Lawra Dodge, Lisa Hess 138,170 16 Excel Environmental; and Wanda Chin Monahan, Esq. of 17 Sue Ellen Murphy 153 17 Sedita, Campisano and Campisano. Thomas Conway 157 18 Peter Sando 160 18 If you would please rise for the pledge of Wenke Taule 163,176 19 allegiance. 19 Phil Kozielski 164 20 (Pledge of Allegiance recited) Brian Bolton 166 21 MAYOR SPEER: Thank you. On tonight's 20 Ann Milligan 167 21 22 agenda, besides our regular business, we're going to 22 23 start with presentations by Lawra Dodge, Excel 23 24 Environmental and Wanda Chin Monahan. Lawra is our 24 25 25 special environmental engineer. That all goes with the 3 5 1 (On record at 08:23:39 p.m.) 1 Upper Ringwood Superfund site. And Wanda Chin Monahan 2 MAYOR SPEER: Folks, thank you and good 2 is our legal counsel that is dealing with us on the 3 evening. Welcome to the May 3rd, 2016 business meeting 3 Upper Ringwood site. 4 of the Council of the Borough of Ringwood. 4 We're having this meeting because we had a 5 This meeting is being broadcast live. It is 5 similar meeting now in 2012 and 2013 to kind of address 6 being watched, beamed to our courtroom and it will be 6 what the Borough's position was in all this and lay the 7 replayed on Channel 77 throughout the week. 7 facts out in front of everybody. In light of the 8 Kelley, statement of compliance, please. 8 recent finding of 1,4-Dioxane, questions have been 9 MS. HALEWICZ: Adequate notice of this 9 raised again, so we think it's time to have this 10 business meeting has been provided in accordance with 10 meeting one more time. 11 the Open Public Meeting Law, Appeal 1975, Chapter 231, 11 I'm going to save you my editorializing and 12 setting forth the time, date, place and purpose of this 12 turn the meeting right over to Wanda. But I want you 13 business meeting. 13 to understand one thing. If you take anything out of 14 By consent of general resolution 2016-13 14 this, the Borough's water supply is in a different 15 adopted January 5th, 2016, through legal notice 15 watershed than this Superfund site. This Superfund 16 published in the Suburban Trends issue on January 10th, 16 site cannot impact our water supply. Our water supply 17 2016 and through notice e-mailed in fact to the 17 is primarily ground water. 18 following named newspapers and posted on the bulletin 18 It can, it has, it will sometimes show an 19 board at Borough Hall on January 6, 2016: the Suburban 19 excedence for one component or another, it's the nature 20 Trends, the Bergen Record and WJHT. 20 of a ground water system. Anytime that happens, it 21 At this time please turn off all electronic 21 would be remiss for anybody to look at the Upper 22 devices during the meeting. 22 Ringwood Superfund site. That is not what -- these 23 MAYOR SPEER: May we have a roll call, 23 things are not connected to each other. I need you to 24 please. 24 understand that. 25 MS. HALEWICZ: Mayor Speer? 25 If you have any questions about the water ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 6 8 1 system, don't hesitate to call or e-mail me or call Mr. 1 are going to take you through some history of the 2 Heck, ask your questions. Get the facts. There is 2 Superfund site. The purpose of tonight's meeting is to 3 nothing connected to the water system from Upper 3 provide the necessary background and complete 4 Ringwood. That's the first thing I need you to know. 4 information concerning the evaluation by the Council 5 At the end of -- okay, folks, this is going 5 three years ago, specifically regarding the O'Connor 6 to be -- this is not a CAG meeting. The EPA has these 6 Disposal Area, which the proposed remedy at that point 7 CAG meetings. They're the Community Advisory Group. 7 was the most protective at that time. 8 And those are little bit more freewheeling and 8 Unfortunately, we have to say this to you. 9 informal. We're not going to be able to do that this 9 Unfortunately, as in all legal matters, we're going to 10 evening. 10 be as open and direct as we can, but we can't violate 11 This evening we're going to be making a 11 any confidentiality provisions that are in place. 12 presentation to you folks. We want to put this on the 12 For reference this evening, for those of you 13 public record, okay? We want your comments on the 13 who don't know, anytime we refer to O'Connor disposable 14 public record. We want to have a full and open 14 area, that's the area where the new recycling center is 15 dialogue, but we're going to have to have it orderly. 15 proposed or has been proposed. 16 We have a court stenographer here to make 16 I have attended virtually every CAG meeting 17 sure we take accurate notes. We are videotaping this 17 since I have been involved in 2008, including the two 18 thing. We've got a full audio feed. It's being 18 most recent CAG meetings on March 1st and April 20th. 19 broadcast live. It's on the Internet. You can 19 I want to clarify some confusion about the 20 download it probably in the morning, I don't know, I 20 CAG meetings. The CAG meeting is a function of the EPA 21 never tried, but they told me you can. 21 and is not a Borough meeting. The EPA and the DEP have 22 So we can't have any kind of outbursts. We 22 a place on the agenda. Unfortunately, in spite of our 23 don't want any kind of cross talking. We really just 23 requests, the Borough has no place on the agenda and we 24 want to get this information out. You'll get a lot of 24 participated, at the CAG meetings, through the public 25 information. 25 portion like all the other public. So is it not a 7 9 1 We had, over the past month or so, we 1 Borough function. 2 broadcast the meetings that we did in the spring of 2 At the last CAG meeting there were many 3 2012 and 2013. I was sitting rapt at my TV watching 3 residents who voiced their opinions and asked many 4 them. There was actually pretty darn good stuff we 4 questions, mainly because, as of their own admission, 5 did. And we're going to give you an abbreviated 5 they hadn't got involved and they just started to get 6 version of it this evening. Please abbreviate, we 6 involved. 7 would appreciate it, because those meetings went on for 7 And you know, it's easy to look at one issue 8 two, three hours. 8 and say this is the solution. And that's simple when 9 So with that I'd like to turn the meeting 9 you have the opportunity to look at it myopically, when 10 over to Ms. Monahan. Wanda. 10 you look at just one specific issue. Unfortunately, we 11 MS. MONAHAN: Actually we're going to have 11 don't have that luxury. We have to look at the cause 12 Scott Heck, the Borough Manager, begin by making some 12 and effect in all aspects of this and there isn't a 13 opening remarks and also talking a little bit about the 13 simple solution. 14 process and procedure of how the meeting will be run. 14 But with that said, we will come up with a 15 MR. HECK: Good evening, everybody. For 15 remedy that works for all the residents. 16 those who don't know me, my name is Scott Heck and I'm 16 As new information and evidence becomes 17 the Borough Manager for Ringwood. 17 available to us, we will continue to look at the 18 I'm also a 49 year resident of the Borough. 18 information with an open mind and always the best 19 I was also elected to the Borough Council in 1994, 19 interests of the Ringwood residents. 20 served on the Council until the end of 2005. 20 I have taken the time to speak to and explain 21 In 2005 I was a Council member, along with 21 the issues with every resident who has contacted me or 22 Joanne Atlas who made the motion to re-list the 22 stopped by the office and there's been many. 23 Superfund site because of the paint sludge that was in 23 There's a lot of information to go over 24 evidence at the time and that was in 2005, folks. 24 tonight, so as the Mayor asked you, we ask you for your 25 Much like the meetings in 2012 and 2013, we 25 patience, your attention. Hold off all questions and ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 10 12 1 comments until the end and the presentations are 1 Ford's wastes in the Peters Mine, Cannon Mine and also 2 complete. 2 in the former sluice pond that became known as the 3 As the Mayor said, the meeting is being 3 O'Connor Disposal Area. Charles O'Connor Trucking was 4 televised live on our local cable station for those who 4 the main disposal contractor for Ford, hence the name 5 could not be here. The schedule where you can replay 5 O'Connor Disposal Area. 6 you can obtain by the Borough website by clicking Watch 6 This area was used from the mid-1700's to the 7 TV Online and then clicking the Program Guide. 7 early 1900's for washing, grinding and magnetic 8 We will also be live streaming the meeting 8 separation which provided pulverized crushed rock. The 9 for those individuals who so not have cable TV. They 9 O'Connor Disposal Area and the low lying areas were 10 can get it right off of our website. Many people take 10 utilized for the settlement of the mine waste and 11 advantage of that already. 11 tailings were from the wet, from the ore process in the 12 Tonight's video will also be posted on 12 operations, so all that process went into these low 13 YouTube for people who can't watch and they can watch 13 lying areas. 14 it at their convenience. Somehow Kelley is going to 14 The sluice pond was a low lying area where 15 take this and turn it into YouTube, she did that with 15 the operators of the mines brought the spent rock once 16 some of the others. 16 the iron ore was mined out. And this product, when you 17 Additionally, so that everybody can have full 17 talk about mine tailings, this product is the 18 access to the information, we've arranged for a Court 18 consistency of flour or baby powder. This is something 19 Reporter to be present, so the transcript of tonight's 19 for you to remember after they start talking about it, 20 meeting will be prepared and posted on the Borough's 20 so you at least know what the consistency of this might 21 website. 21 be. 22 In order for this transcript to be 22 According to Ford's internal memos, Ford 23 meaningful, we ask that every person speak one at a 23 considered gifting 437 acres of the 930 acres to 24 time, so the stenographer can transcribe the meeting 24 something called the Ringwood Solid Waste Management 25 accurately and completely. 25 Authority on the condition that the Authority continue 11 13 1 This is a Council meeting, it's a public 1 to operate the landfills of the two mines and the 2 Council meeting and we ask that when you approach the 2 O'Connor Disposal Area. However Ford then later 3 microphone, you give your name and your address for the 3 offered to gift only 290 acres of the 437 acres, 4 record, as you have to do for every Council meeting. 4 because Ford wanted to retain its disposal rights on 5 I've been the primary contact on behalf of 5 the portion of the property that O'Connor Disposal -- 6 the Borough regarding the Superfund site since 2008. 6 O'Connor Trucking was already using for Ford waste. 7 I'll give a brief background of the history and the 7 As a result, Ford retained 150 acres, 8 ownership of the operation of the property which makes 8 including what is known as the O'Connor Disposal Area, 9 up the Superfund site. 9 and continued to dispose of the plant waste at that 10 After that, I will turn the meeting over to 10 site. 11 Wanda and Lawra and they'll give you some more of the 11 In 1972 Ford still owned 208 acres of the 930 12 details from the legal end and from the environmental 12 acres, consisting of two parcels. One was a former 13 end. 13 railroad bed about 57 acres, which was sold to PSE&G, 14 In 1965 Ringwood Realty, a division of Ford 14 and the other was 151 acres which had been withheld 15 Motor Company, acquired 930 acres in Ringwood to 15 from the conveyance to the Ringwood Solid Waste 16 support Ford's Mahwah Assembly Plant. In large part to 16 Authority. 17 provide a place for Ford to dispose of their waste, 17 By Ford's account they stopped disposing at 18 including paint sludge, from their plant. They also 18 the Ringwood site in 1971. 19 planned to build a housing development for the 19 Finally in 1973, Ford's creative final 20 workforce and unfortunately that never happened. 20 divesting plan of contaminated property was to donate 21 These acres include the entire Superfund 21 100 acres to the State of New Jersey and 45 acres to 22 site, Peters Mine Area, Cannon Mine Area and O'Connor 22 the Housing Operation With Training Opportunity, 23 Disposal Area. 23 otherwise known as the HOW-TO Corporation, a government 24 The record shows that immediately after 24 sponsored self-help housing entity. The 100 acres is 25 acquiring the property, Ford's contractors disposed of 25 part of Ringwood State Park today and the 45 acres is ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 14 16 1 today's O'Connor Disposal Area. 1 the Borough land in the future. 2 The Borough of Ringwood never wanted this 2 Another part of the history of the site was 3 property nor had any controlling interest in the 3 the Borough entered into an agreement to lease the 4 property at O'Connor Disposal Area, which is subject to 4 property that was known as the O'Connor Disposal Area 5 the new recycling center as we've been talking about. 5 to a private entity in the 1990's for an operation of 6 The HOW-TO Corporation failed to pay its 6 radio towers. I believe the digging of these footings 7 taxes on the 45 acres, which is the O'Connor Disposal 7 were what ultimately led to the discovery of paint 8 Area, and in 1980 the Borough involuntarily acquired 8 sludge. 9 through tax lien foreclosure, which there should be 9 The property was going to be used as an 10 protection for against the liability through an 10 income property for the Borough back in the 1990's. 11 exemption in CERCLA, which Wanda will address a little 11 In 2008 when I came back to work for the 12 later. 12 Borough, one of the responsibilities I was given, to 13 In 1981 the Ringwood Solid Waste Management 13 get involved in this massive project called the 14 Authority was dissolved and their ownership of the 290 14 Superfund site. 15 acres was abandoned. Ringwood, as the sovereign 15 I determined we needed to hire the best 16 entity, the Borough involuntarily acquired the title to 16 environmental attorney and environmental consultant 17 290 acres as well. 17 that we could get to give us a clear picture of the 18 It's important that you understand how and 18 technical data and the actions that led us to where we 19 when the Borough came to own the two portions of the 19 were today. 20 Superfund site, which was significantly years after the 20 As an example, we have very different legal 21 Ford disposal activities had stopped. 21 and technical issues with all the parties involved. So 22 In 2009-2010, one of the first legal actions 22 we need to know how to address and protect the 23 that Ms. Monahan took, our environmental attorney, was 23 Borough's interest in differing environmental and 24 to provide ownership history to the EPA and request 24 technical issues, and that's why I hired the 25 that the EPA release the Borough from any CERCLA 25 individuals. 15 17 1 liability for the Superfund site in light of how the 1 The Borough's professionals and I have 2 ownership was acquired. Even though there is an 2 attended virtually every CAG meeting since becoming 3 exclusion in the CERCLA documents that eliminates 3 involved. We have monthly meetings and conference 4 liability for involuntary acquisition, EPA did not 4 calls with the Ford team, EPA, New Jersey DEP, the CAG 5 grant the request. 5 and we are fully involved in the process. In many 6 Since we have been ordered by EPA to 6 instances, beyond what the agencies requested, the 7 participate and cooperate with Ford, we've worked 7 Borough has requested for more work to be done and 8 together to monitor the environmental work that Ford 8 conducted soil and groundwater studies to ensure that 9 and its consultants were doing, the work of the EPA and 9 the investigation is complete and the remediation is 10 the New Jersey DEP at site and to ensure that the work 10 also complete. And we owe the professionals that. 11 would be protective of human health and the environment 11 As an example, excuse me, as an example and 12 and would also protect the Borough's legal interests. 12 for the reasons that are apparent to all of us right 13 The Borough has a dual role. First we are 13 now, and based upon the 1,4-Dioxane, the Borough 14 the host community and our job is to protect the 14 several years ago opposed the EPA separating the 15 health, welfare and safety of the residents. Second, 15 remediation plan for the three land areas, the three 16 as a Superfund responsible party and as the current 16 different spots where -- the land areas where they 17 owner of a portion of the Superfund site, our role is 17 were, with the groundwater, because the groundwater 18 to ensure that the property is cleaned up and the 18 remedy and the land remedies we believe are part and 19 financial integrity of our town and our taxpayers 19 parcel to the total solution. We don't think you can 20 protected. 20 really solve one without solving the others. 21 Our goal has always been and continues to be 21 We'll take you through that discussion a 22 to achieve a cleanup of the site as soon as possible, 22 little bit later about how we found the 1,4-Dioxane and 23 while maintaining the protection of human health and 23 what it means in a few minutes, but it was the Borough 24 the environment. We also want to minimize the 24 that took the action to do the additional testing that 25 Borough's liability as a responsible party and protect 25 the 1,4-Dioxane was discovered in the groundwater at ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 18 20 1 the site. 1 what the appropriate remedy alternative should be, the 2 Our Borough team has participated in both 2 Council has a dual role as the host community and 3 National Remedy Review Board processes for the EPA in 3 responsible for the -- responsible party, as well as 4 May of 2012 and 2013. Each time we held special 4 representing 12,335 of its residents, there are many 5 Council meetings open to the public where presentations 5 other factors that also have to be considered. 6 were made very similarly to this to the Council and the 6 Lawra is going to give you a brief summary of 7 public just like tonight's forum. 7 the technical data and Wanda will cover some of the 8 Only eight residents attended the May 2012 8 factors that went into the Council's decision to 9 Council meeting. Two residents made comments to the 9 evaluate, which resulted in the supporting of the 10 Council. 10 contingency remedy. 11 As part of our submission to the National 11 The Council made their decision based upon 12 Remedy Review Board in 2012, page two, we cite, and I 12 information, data, expert opinions provided by those 13 quote: 13 retained to protect the Borough's interest, which 14 “At the conclusion of the National Remedy 14 include first and foremost the protection of the health 15 Review process, the Borough will further evaluate the 15 and the environment of -- human health and environment, 16 remedial action alternatives after considering the 16 as well as the factors that are important to the 17 technical recommendations by the National Remedy Review 17 Borough overall. 18 Board, EPA Region Number 2, New Jersey DEP, Excel 18 With that said, the Council has maintained 19 Environmental and the community and resident concerns.” 19 that if evidence comes to light that it is necessary to 20 In May of 2013 we held another special 20 reconsider, they will do so with an open mind and in 21 meeting with presentations focused on the groundwater 21 the best interest of Ringwood. 22 data, analysis of risks and the remediation 22 Before I turn the meeting over to Lawra, I 23 alternatives -- remedial alternatives. 23 also want to inform some of you who may not be aware of 24 The Borough submitted additional comments to 24 the Toxic Tort Lawsuit brought in 2006 by over 600 25 the National Remedy Review Board in 2013. 25 Ringwood residents against Ford, Ford's contractor and 19 21 1 In the National Remedy Review Board's memo to 1 the taxpayers of Ringwood. 2 EPA Region 2, page 3 stated that: 2 The lawsuit was for personal injury, health 3 “Based upon the presentation, the Board notes 3 claims and also property damage. These Ringwood 4 that removal actions -- much of the total site 4 residents settled the lawsuit with Ford Motor Company, 5 contamination includes removal actions since the re- 5 Ford's contractor and Ringwood in 2010. 6 listing of the site.” 6 I'm going to refer to a Bergen County -- a 7 Page 5 of that document stated: 7 Bergen Record article that reported that the settlement 8 “In the package provided to the Board, the 8 for the residents in the suit was 12.5 million, of 9 preference remedy, nine criterial evaluations for 9 which the Borough was responsible for 1.5 million. I 10 O'Connor Disposal Area, appears to be equally 10 refer to the article because the attorneys for the 11 protective, but significantly more expensive than any 11 other responsible parties required a confidentiality 12 other of the evaluated alternatives. The Board 12 agreement, so I can't talk about the actual items 13 recommends that the Region's decision document contain 13 contained in that document, but I will tell you that 14 a more thorough explanation as to why alternative 5A 14 the article that they ran appeared to be credible. 15 provides for the best balance of the tradeoffs when 15 A few more facts. Just before the cleanup in 16 compared to the alternatives 4A and 4B.” 16 the 1980's, the Borough paid -- for the cleanup in the 17 The one thing that I've learned throughout 17 1980's Borough paid $130,000 or 28.6 percent of the EPA 18 this experience is that the environmental investigation 18 oversight costs. That's just the oversight costs for 19 is a dynamic ever-changing evolutionary process. The 19 EPA to watch what went on, while the insurance 20 Borough has maintained consistency that they will not 20 companies didn't pay any of these costs. 21 make any decisions about technical positions until the 21 Ford paid 325,000 to the EPA for the balance 22 work is completed. The EPA and the DPA (sic) give 22 of that oversight cost. 23 their expert opinions and the Borough is provided 23 During the current cleanup of a much smaller 24 opinions from their environmental professionals. 24 area called SR-6, Ford Motor Company cleaned up the 25 While the data is significant when evaluating 25 waste and contaminated soil and left the other ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 22 24 1 excavated items that had been dumped there for the 1 you might have heard about, different types of 2 Borough to address and take care of. 2 properties where a municipality may need to have 3 The EPA required the Borough to pay to clean 3 something productively done with that property, so I 4 up what Ford had left behind. And again, we paid for 4 have a lot of experience from the private sector 5 that with taxpayers' dollars and the insurance company 5 development part of it as well. 6 refused coverage. 6 So when I was retained by the Borough to take 7 So that's a little bit of the history that 7 a look at what was going on up here. It was January 8 they asked me to go through. I wanted to be as brief 8 2010 when we started. At the time Ford's consultant, 9 as I could so I could leave more time for them. 9 Arcadis (phonetic), was in the midst of completing 10 So, Wanda or Lawra, if you want to take the 10 what's called the remedial investigation. 11 opportunity to go through the rest. 11 And this is a lot of information, so if you 12 MS. DODGE: Good evening everybody. I'm 12 have questions later, please do just take some notes to 13 going to try to do this as quickly as I can, but it's 13 yourself and ask at the end and I will be happy to 14 kind of an intense amount of information and I 14 answer. 15 apologize in advance to those who have already heard 15 A remedial investigation is a very extensive 16 this a few times and we have heard it on the close 16 process under the Superfund regulations. It involves a 17 captioning. 17 very extensive investigation of soil quality, 18 First of off my name is Lawra Dodge and as 18 groundwater quality, surface water quality, sediment 19 the Mayor and Scott indicated I'm the Borough's expert. 19 quality. 20 I am actually a professional geologist, I'm not an 20 It looks at the behavior of any contaminants 21 engineer. 21 in the subsurface, their occurrence and why they're 22 I have 33 years of experience in New Jersey 22 there, how sensitive they are, whether or not what's in 23 doing environmental geology and consulting with an 23 the soil is affecting groundwater quality adversely. 24 expertise in geochemisty, which is behavior of 24 Whether or not groundwater quality is affecting surface 25 contaminants in the subsurface and ground water in 25 water quality and whether or not any of that is rising 23 25 1 particular and also in all the different types of 1 to a level that action is necessary to remediate it or 2 remediation or cleanup techniques for both soil, ground 2 clean it up. 3 water, land etcetera. 3 So when I say remediation, I mean cleanup. 4 So this is what I do day in and day out. I 4 And I will try not to use a lot of acronyms, 5 represent about 75 to 80 municipalities, cities large 5 unfortunately our industry is acronym crazy. 6 and small across New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania. 6 So again, it's a kind of a small figure, but 7 I'll give you my background in a little bit 7 for those who don't really know what it looks like, 8 so you have an idea of where I'm coming from when I'm 8 this is kind of -- I'm sure you can see every detail 9 retained to look at a situation like this. 9 here. 10 I'm also a professional geologist, actually 10 This gray blob is basically about 12 acres 11 licensed and a licensed site remediation professional, 11 and, as Scott said, historically this area was not a 12 which in New Jersey is actually a license much like a 12 subgrade area, it was basically a low lying area that 13 professional engineer. I'm actually appointed by the 13 was used in the mining operation. At the bottom of it 14 governor to the licensing board for that industry. 14 is a berm of a mine tailings that stops the liquid 15 I've served on it for the past six years. 15 sluice that was the area known as Peters mine pit. And 16 I've also been appointed by the Passaic 16 it was funneled over here and then used to water the 17 County Board of Chosen Freeholders, the Passaic County 17 mine tailings in the sluice. 18 Brownfields Commission and I actually do pro bono work 18 So at the very bottom of this you have a 19 for a significant number of cities across the State 19 dammed up area where this very fine grain rock flour, 20 helping the Mayor and Council identify ways in which 20 as Scott very accurately described, was settling and 21 they can address environmental issues on properties 21 then building up. So you have this layer of that 22 that they've taken responsibility for through tax 22 material that becomes the whole base of this. And 23 foreclosure or through the property being abandoned. 23 again a berm along the end that created the ability for 24 I also work for the private sector for trying 24 that to actually function. That went on for many, 25 to put the public/private partnerships together that 25 many, many years. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 26 28 1 So that is, by all rights, what predisposal 1 They also found five drums of miscellaneous 2 conditions would be for this area. Predisposal 2 material that was from the Ford operation in Mahwah 3 conditions is referenced in the EPA's record of 3 which were also disposed of off site. 4 decision for this Superfund site, for O'Connor, that 4 What was left behind after that investigation 5 restoration to predisposal conditions would be what the 5 was conducted were essentially fill material mixed with 6 -- one of the two of the expedition remedies that would 6 some solid waste. And I saw it first hand, because 7 actually give you back, would give you back what pre- 7 when I first got on the site there were some -- 8 existed prior to the disposal basically of mining -- 8 developments and there were things that you would 9 So it's important to remember this because 9 imagine related to a Ford operation solid waste. All 10 when we get into the details of why and how we 10 kinds of physical things that you would imagine being 11 evaluated the entire entity of OCDA prime disposal 11 thrown away in a garbage bag. 12 area. 12 And that was basically it. Car parts, there 13 We were taking all of these factors into 13 were some other things like that, nothing else related 14 consideration because we right now have a situation in 14 to something that would be to me an environmental 15 2015, when the rock came out, that the pre-remediation 15 concern. 16 conditions in O'Connor are stable. All right? It's 16 Soil quality gave us some sporadic detections 17 very important for you to understand that we are 17 of things that are typically related to what we refer 18 looking at this holistically. You've got to take into 18 to in my industry as historic fill. Basically 19 account all of the information that's been generated 19 miscellaneous concentrations that you would see in any 20 and it's been extensive. 20 number of industrial sites that are not really 21 So I was tasked in 2010 to take a look at 21 impacting groundwater, they're not rising to a level 22 literally reams and reams of data for not just 22 that you would have to remove it by excavation. 23 O'Connor, but also Peters or Cannon. But tonight we're 23 Basically no rhyme or reason to distribution 24 focusing on O'Connor. 24 of it, nothing saying that oh, we had some paint sludge 25 So it was right at the point where they were 25 here, so the soil’s area affected, you have to remove 27 29 1 completing the second phase of the investigation. They 1 that soil. There was absolutely no rhyme or reason for 2 did one in 2006 and one in 2010. And you can't really 2 distribution and nothing that was rising to a level 3 see from here, but there were over 100 soil samples 3 that warranted additional removal beyond the 2,200 tons 4 processed over the area, 3200 linear feet of trenching 4 and the five drums that were removed. 5 of what these -- looks like a fish scale, kind of a 5 In addition to this, there were five 6 fish bone thing situation there. Borings that are not 6 monitoring wells installed that were in the OCDA, all 7 even shown on here dotted all the way through, but 7 throughout the area. There has since been an 8 these little orange rectangles are test trenches, where 8 additional bedrock well installed along with that, that 9 you excavate down because you get to see the physical 9 is going to be sampled in May. But those five wells 10 layering of it, it gives you much more information. 10 have ben sampled in the last 15 years. 11 So what they were looking for were obviously 11 There have been more than 15 rounds of 12 signs of disposal of paint waste or paint sludge, that 12 sampling conducted and in all of that sampling nothing 13 would be the target that they were looking for to see 13 related to the material that we see in the fill have 14 if it was there. And they were also looking to see 14 ever shown up in groundwater. We've seen one or two 15 what the composition of this material was and whether 15 detections in a few of the wells of arsenic. I'm sure 16 or not there was soil impacts that were related to the 16 you've heard about it when you look at the articles 17 disposal or anything from the Ford operation that would 17 that were written. Arsenic is a native metal that 18 have been of concern. 18 occurs in the bedrock system in this area. 19 What was found as result of the soil quality 19 I mean you've got a former mine here that was 20 investigation, after over 100 soil samples that were 20 being mined for iron. Along with the iron you're going 21 collected, was 2,200 tons of paint sludge were 21 to get other metals that precipitate and you're going 22 encountered, usually in deposits that were literally 22 to get very high concentrations that are concentrated 23 solidified flows. That material was all completely 23 in certain parts of this bedrock. 24 excavated and removed, along with some soil that 24 The bedrock, for anybody that's a geology 25 associated with it and disposed of off site. 25 geek, is actually -- metamorphic rock that has very ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 30 32 1 fine grains of minerals in it that will, when you grind 1 that I agreed with. And I said you know what, you're 2 it up like you would when you're mining and then you 2 right. We need to identify and answer some of these 3 take out the trap rock and you get your iron, you throw 3 key questions. 4 all the other stuff away, you'll have occasionally some 4 So we worked together and started to turn 5 elevated metal in it. 5 this around in terms of there being this feeling like 6 You're going to see a lot of iron and that's 6 everything was just kind of snowballing without really 7 not, you know, of environmental concern from the 7 a lot of understanding of why certain things were being 8 Superfund site perspective, but it is something that 8 done. EPA was asking for things that made no sense but 9 you see when you go out there, you'll see that iron 9 they weren't asking for things that did make sense that 10 staining. I mean people get concerned when they see 10 weren't being done. 11 that, but it's actually just iron. It's a natural part 11 So we've worked over the last six years very, 12 of this system. And it's actually a very important 12 very hard to stand up and speak up and say we want this 13 metal because, for me, from a geochemical point of 13 information. I'm not standing up to the public, I'm 14 view, it's one of the tracer metals that we've used to 14 not going to advise the Mayor and Council unless I am 15 figure out where groundwater flows. 15 convinced. I'm not a hired gun. I'm a professional 16 And one of the things that we did do is a few 16 expert. I know what this should look like in terms of 17 years after we got involved in this site, as Scott 17 characterization and we need to get it there. 18 said, we were disillusioned that EPA had split the 18 So that is what we wound up doing. And we 19 investigation and decision making for groundwater from 19 did a lot of additional work from 2012 all the way 20 the land remedies, from Peters, from O'Connor, from -- 20 through to the end of that year still getting the data 21 they were doing everything separately from groundwater. 21 for groundwater. And I finally got to the point where 22 That's inconsistent with the way we would have like to 22 I was satisfied that what's in this area, based on all 23 have seen it. 23 this work, is approximately 183,700 cubic yards of 24 We would have liked to have seen the 24 material. About 112,000 of those yards are mine 25 groundwater go along with the land remedies so we could 25 tailings. The balance, and I'll be giving that real 31 33 1 look at it together. So what we did to is identify 1 quick, 73,700 is fill material. All right? 2 gaps and there were quite a number of them in my 2 So there's more mine tailings in there than 3 technical opinion when I first got on board in the 3 there's fill, first off. All of that 73,000 -- so 4 project. 4 based on the actual numbers that we generated from all 5 So in 2012, much to Ford's chagrin, I stepped 5 of this work, it's all in the record decision by the 6 up and said look, I'm not satisfied. I think you need 6 way if you want to check me. 73,700 of fill material. 7 to fill in a lot of these gaps with respect to the 7 Some of that material is interspersed with debris from 8 understanding of soil and groundwater. 8 the Ford Motor Company plant and just debris in 9 Whether EPA separated these things or not, I 9 general, garbage. Some of it is intermingled or 10 just don't care. I think we have to be responsible in 10 commingled with mine tailings. Some of it isn't just 11 understanding this site. We cannot stand up in front 11 clean layers of fill. When I say clean, I mean not 12 of the public like I'm doing tonight unless I really am 12 debris inter layered in it. 13 convinced in my understanding of how these areas and 13 The paint sludge flows were removed. So all 14 groundwater and surface water are all interrelated. 14 that's left are pieces that you may encounter or you 15 And so we need to step up this investigation 15 may not. In fact when additional investigation was 16 and expedite it. And we've got to catch up the 16 done this past year to finalize the perimeter, you 17 groundwater investigation which was years behind the 17 know, edges of it, there was no paint sludge 18 soil investigation. And we've got to do that quickly 18 encountered whatsoever. Not even little chunks. 19 and we want this extensive additional investigation 19 So in our assessment, in looking at this 20 conducted, which actually did happen in 2012. 20 under pre-mediation conditions, pre-cleanup, all right? 21 So we got Ford on board. We got EPA and DEP 21 The only impact to groundwater that I can associate 22 on board. We all sat down with the technical advisors 22 with the materials in the fill and not with the actual 23 that we had at the time. There was Chaffin (phonetic), 23 baby powder size crushed mine tailings, that the 24 who've I known in the industry for a number of years. 24 arsenic is actually coming and going and chemically 25 He had made some comments on some of the earlier work 25 it's not significant. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 34 36 1 There is not an arsenic problem at the site. 1 rise to a level of what's called principal threat 2 Which is very good news by the way. Because other mine 2 waste. 3 sites where you have acid drainage you can have a 3 Principal threat waste is anything that could 4 problem with metals including arsenic. We do not have 4 or is affecting groundwater quality adversely or could 5 that here. And it's very important for people to 5 or is migrating and getting away from the area. And 6 understand. 6 there is no principal threat waste either in O'Connor 7 As Scott indicated before, we do not have a 7 Disposal Area or anywhere else at the site, either in 8 drinking water issue with respect to anything in 8 Peters or in Cannon. 9 Ringwood. All of the Borough wells have been tested 9 So in accordance with both EPA and DEP 10 clean repeatedly. The same with regard to the 10 protocol, the presumptive remedy, which is a remedy 11 reservoir. 97 percent of the Borough's drinking water 11 that you would typically go to, is an engineering 12 is from production wells. 12 controlled capping remedy. That is a typical remedy 13 And as Scott said very correctly, those are 13 that we would look to on any other site, whether it be 14 in a different aquifer completely. A different water 14 in New Jersey or anywhere else in the country. That is 15 bearing source than this site. And there's no 15 the typical process. 16 connection between the two. And even if there were, 16 If we had a situation that was dissimilar to 17 the concentrations are so low comparatively and so far 17 what we encountered here, then we would be looking at 18 away that they would not ever show up, but it's not 18 other types of alternatives. Nonetheless, the 19 even possible for it to happen, because it's a 19 feasibility study process is exhaustive. 20 different geologic setting completely. Those 20 So we go through this list. No action, which 21 production wells are in a sand and gravel aquifer, this 21 obviously not appropriate, because we do have surface 22 is on top of the ridge in a shallow bed and bedrock. 22 soils that need to be covered, so there's not a direct 23 So it's important to dispel that concern, 23 contact issue. That's the soil -- that we were talking 24 that you know that we're not trying to doing anything 24 about before. No impact to ground water, but it has to 25 other than what I was tasked to do, is to look at this 25 be covered in terms of there being no direct contact, 35 37 1 hard from my expert technical perspective. Not to come 1 but it's not moving anywhere and it's stable under pre- 2 to any preconceived decision or have any preconceived 2 remediation conditions. 3 notion. Nobody has told me, whether it be Ford or the 3 So we're looking at trying to work with that, 4 Borough or the EPA or DEP, we want this, this is the 4 because when we compare the alternative, which is, okay 5 approach that we want to see. That was not ever a 5 what else could we do, the only other set of 6 discussion. 6 alternatives involved excavation. Because in a 7 We have looked at this space and all the 7 situation like this you can't treat it in place, you 8 parameters of how we have to go about this kind of an 8 really want to do something really to target. There's 9 investigation. And in that process we go from 9 nothing to really treat. You wouldn't be able to go 10 understanding the site to then evaluating. Okay, based 10 out there and jump on anything to treat like you could 11 on this situation, what are the feasible or possible 11 on some other types of sites. 12 cleanup alternatives. 12 So it really boils down to two separate 13 And the universe of those alternatives are 13 alternatives. Either you consolidate it and -- you 14 outlined in the record decision or in the feasibility 14 have to consolidate it to get it away from the brook, 15 study that happened after the investigation is 15 because you can't just have it where it's sitting in 16 completed. And as Scott said you have nine criteria 16 its current place. You've got to be able to get it to 17 that you go through to evaluate alternatives again. 17 a place where you can physically do it. Or you look at 18 And they include things like technical 18 the removal alternatives. 19 implementability. How easy is it to implement. Of 19 So we looked at both. And what is the 20 course first and foremost is protection of human health 20 concern that we have regarding removal? And this is 21 and the environment. 21 why we looked at it this way. These are -- excuse me, 22 In a situation like this, because we had 22 these are what's called geologic cross sections that 23 nothing that was rising to a level of requiring removal 23 are kind of a slice through. So this is going from 24 in terms of excavation in any kind of little spot or in 24 Peters Mine Road straight out to Park Brook. And 25 general because it's inside the groundwater, it did not 25 here's Peters Mine Road. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 38 40 1 The fill material is about 16 feet adjacent 1 disrupting when under current conditions it's stable. 2 to the roadway. It's 1100 linear feet of O'Connor that 2 And it's been stable because it's been standing there 3 hugs Peters Mine Road. If the removal excavation, 3 for so many years. 4 alternative 5A, were to be implemented, that would 4 And once you've had all the time for these 5 involve excavating straight down, adjacent to Peters 5 filings to settle and to form this layer on the bottom 6 Mine Road, across that whole 1100 linear feet, down to 6 that becomes kind of setting for the material above it, 7 depths that are variable, but up to depths of 120 feet, 7 that becomes a known condition. Under current pre- 8 as well as all the way down to Park Brook. 8 remediation conditions, we know what we have. We have 9 If that were to happen, obviously you'd have 9 no impact to ground water, we have no impact to the 10 to take down all the trees, all the shrubs, and it 10 property related to O'Connor. 11 would totally be devastated. And this is a 12 acre 11 Under full excavation alternatives the 12 area. At the end of that process, which would have to 12 Borough's environmental expert raises very significant 13 probably be done from the bottom up, so you would have 13 concerns that I brought to their attention saying if 14 to probably protect Park Brook, you'd have to possibly 14 this material is excavated I don't know if we're going 15 redirect it. 15 to be able stabilize the road. 16 It would take approximately two and a half 16 I don't know if we're going to be able to 17 years I think to accomplish this. In that time frame 17 stabilize those mine tailings with this on top of it. 18 it would be basically taking all of this material out 18 I don't know how we're going to make the two of those 19 and then exposing the area adjacent to the part two 19 things mesh with the fact that we don't have any issues 20 Peters Mine Road. 20 currently with groundwater quality. We don't have any 21 Now this alternative, because the remedy 21 issues with respect to the park brook, but if we start 22 doesn't require restoration back to anything but pre- 22 to do that and we start to go in that direction, we 23 disposal conditions, all that the remedy includes is 23 potentially could be in training something that we're 24 putting six inches of soil back into this what I 24 not in training now and I would be more concerned about 25 describe as a crevasse, as a lack of a better way of 25 that than I am about the conditions now. 39 41 1 doing it. 1 So we start to weigh all of these variables, 2 You've got to visualize, if you haven't been 2 right? And then we start to look at the regulatory 3 out there and walked over it and looked up from the 3 framework within which we work. We don't have 4 base of Park Brook like I have. It's a very large area 4 principles about waste. We don't have anything that 5 and it would be essentially just, you know, stripped 5 warrants going back and doing that. We don't have a 6 all the way down. 6 situation that rises to the level where we really are 7 So we're looking at this and we're saying 7 going to now have to be responsible from a professional 8 okay, that 183,700 cubic yards translates to 275,000 8 environmental point of view. I've got to make 9 tons, because you have to do a conversion from yards to 9 recommendations to the Borough and to the Mayor and 10 tons. When you actually get something, you've -- it 10 Council. This is what I did back in 2012, '13. 11 stands out and it winds up being a larger volume. 11 But at the end of this process, when you 12 So now you're talking about 7400, 7,400 12 weigh all the variables, you go with the known. You be 13 trucks that have to be brought in to take this material 13 careful about the unknown. And that's always why you 14 and run it all the way Peters Mine Road and out to 14 use the industry guidelines that we have in front of 15 wherever it's going to go. 15 us, the standards that are set for the industry, the 16 You've got that activity and then you've got 16 presumptive remedies and then you look at the EPA 17 this crevasse. And you're doing all of this because 17 standards. 18 you have material in here that largely is intermingled 18 Capping is as protective for human health and 19 solid waste, not hazardous waste, solid waste, garbage 19 environment as full removal would be, as long as that 20 and it's commingled mine tailings and underneath is all 20 cap can be protected. And the protection of that cap 21 the mine tailings from the sluice operation. 21 is so it doesn't get run over by a vehicle or someone 22 So then look at those sluice operation mine 22 going out and essentially having interaction with the 23 tailings and look at the proximity to Park Brook and 23 cap when they should be staying off of it. 24 look at the possibility that we're now disrupting this 24 So that was when the concept came to me that 25 whole thing. We're ripping it apart and we're 25 at the end of the day, if we could protect that cap by ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 42 44 1 presumptively re-utilizing the property, that would 1 take a closer look. This is all mine tailings. This 2 give us an added level of protection over the integrity 2 is all mine tailings, this berm down there is mine 3 of the cap that's underneath it. 3 tailings. 4 So this is how the process is going to 4 This is debris with the solid waste, garbage 5 evolve. As Scott also said, this entire process is -- 5 basically, next to the mine tailings. There's a little 6 alright, it's dynamic. It starts with the 6 bit of fill here, there's a little pocket of fill here. 7 investigation, it goes to the feasibility study, it 7 So this is why we're looking at this to 8 goes to the record of decision. But because we're 8 discuss some of the things that have been discussed. 9 still doing the groundwater investigation because it 9 There is no estimate that we have of sludge or paint 10 was split off from the land investigation and more data 10 sludge remaining at O'Connor. We can't estimate it, 11 is still being generated, we are still looking at the 11 because we don't have anything definitive that we can 12 data that's being generated and that's what we will 12 estimate. If there's small little chunks we can do 13 continue to do. 13 maybe a minor estimate of total volume to that minor 14 If anything shows up that changes the 14 percent. 15 assessment that I've just walked through and then we 15 But that's not something that can be done 16 will sit down and make the recommendations, if we feel 16 after. It's just small concentrated smaller pieces and 17 it's appropriate, to shift the cap. 17 we can't -- and it's not impacting groundwater. So 18 And that is the responsible process that 18 you'd have to sift through all of this to get at that 19 we're in. It's defined by regulation, it's defined by 19 and that's one of the reasons why we evaluated this the 20 industry standards and it's defined by my and Wanda's 20 way we did. 21 and the Borough's experts, professionals' experience 21 I just wanted to talk very quickly about 22 and recommendations. 22 groundwater. Okay, so this is -- again I know it's 23 And because we have so much experience in 23 really hard for everyone to see this. This here is the 24 situations like this, I actually have in my 33 years 24 Peters mine pit. This gold shaped area here is 25 sat there and been responsible for physically pulling 25 O'Connor. These blue lines are representing lines of 43 45 1 apart something like this on a Superfund site in Rhode 1 people's groundwater elevation. That's how we 2 Island many years ago, also in Delaware. I'm also a 2 determined the direction of groundwater flow. 3 technical adviser for a Superfund site, a community 3 We installed these black dots, which are 4 advisory group actually, in central New Jersey. And 4 monitoring wells. You can see all the wells in 5 that's also a land disposal site. 5 O'Connor. These are all the wells that are down 6 So I've done this firsthand. I can tell you 6 gradient in Peters and these are some that are down 7 from firsthand experience that this is not as easy as 7 gradient of everything. 8 it looks. People who just drive up and go oh, well, 8 When we first got on to the site, on to the 9 yeah, we can just get that all. It's a very involved 9 project in 2010, Ford's consulting work was looking at 10 process. 10 Peters separately, all their figures just had Peters 11 That's why it's estimated to take over two 11 and all their other figures just had O'Connor. But we 12 and a half years to actually execute it, if it were to 12 made the recommendation to combine them, to look at 13 be executed. And that's why you have to be -- you have 13 them together holistically, because we could use the 14 to take pause, all right? And you have to consider all 14 data from the wells from Peters and the wells from 15 of the actual facts. 15 O'Connor together, because the groundwater flows from 16 You've got to make decisions based on the 16 Peters towards O'Connor and then down. 17 data and based on the extensive data that's been 17 And in the investigation report for 18 generated and based upon the expertise and experience 18 groundwater, which was massive, that was issued in 19 of the people that the Borough has reached out to. And 19 2012, the site wide investigation that was called a 20 again, it's been six years now. It's not like we've 20 conceptual site model and that conceptual site model 21 just, you know, joined the team yesterday. 21 established a groundwater flow pathway that essentially 22 This is just another figure that shows a 22 originates in the bedrock, because remember this is a 23 similar cut. You can see a similar drop. And this is 23 very large mine system underneath Peter. So it's 24 a larger. I just want to point this out, if you can't 24 basically holding and storing water. So it's very 25 see it as good I can leave it up here if you want to 25 unique. It's not like anything that you see in a non- ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 46 48 1 minded area. 1 here in Ringwood. There's been over 60 that have 2 So you've got to take all that into 2 occurred in Passaic County. 3 consideration. The groundwater comes up from the 3 During the course of that investigation 4 deeper rock and then into the overburden and flows out. 4 there's never been any affect whatsoever on anything, 5 All right? And then ultimately you'll see the surface 5 whether it be Peters or O'Connor. And O'Connor again 6 waters that are here. 6 being above ground you would expect that there would 7 And so that's why we monitor not just 7 be. It's sitting above the rock. Earthquakes occur, 8 groundwater quality, but also surface water quality. 8 as everyone would likely know, in the bedrock. 9 And samples are taken all along the stretch of Park 9 During that time we've had Hurricane Irene 10 Road from Peters all the way down and then recently all 10 and had Hurricane Floyd. We had Super Storm Sandy. 11 the way down through -- well, not just recently, 11 We've had massive nor'easters. We've had times where 12 because all the way through the annual sampling of it, 12 the park brook has overflowed and we've had times where 13 it's all been down to the mine brook down by Cannon. 13 it's been bone dry. 14 And then additional sampling has been done. 14 During all of those times, high water levels, 15 So this is showing that the connection 15 low water levels, winter, spring, summer, fall, we have 16 between the two and the flow of groundwater out in this 16 data during all of those time frames. So if we 17 direction has been monitored now for years and years. 17 understand what happens when the seasons change, what 18 So we have an understanding, we can predict. 18 happens when a storm event occurs, and the bottom line 19 When you have a very extensive database in 19 is there's nothing discernible that changes. 20 our industry, one of the things it enables you to do, 20 From a statistical point of view, from the 21 just like anyone that works in the financial industry, 21 importance of a data trend point of view, nothing that 22 you know, you track the performance of the economy, the 22 changes. 23 performance of a stock. After a number of years you 23 And the reason why I'm going into all this 24 get good at predicting what's likely going to happen by 24 detail is because I want to try to address things that 25 looking at all the factors. 25 you might be wondering about. Things that you might 47 49 1 It's the same with anything else, no matter 1 have heard that were inaccurate. And I don't think 2 what industry you're in or what job you have, you get 2 it's because people have anything other than just a 3 good enough over time to be able to predict what's 3 concern and that was the reason we're here tonight and 4 going to happen. 4 why we came in the prior years and why we'll always be 5 Well, we have an incredible opportunity on a 5 available to address it. 6 site like this where we have a 30 year database of 6 Because my concern for the entire community 7 monitoring the groundwater, monitoring the surface 7 and for the Borough is that we all just make sure we're 8 water. We can predict what is going to happen going 8 doing the job that needs to be done based on the 9 forward. We know that O'Connor is stable, all right. 9 information, the extensive amount of information that's 10 We know that Peters is stable. We know that Cannon is 10 available. 11 stable. 11 And again because it is an interdynamic 12 It's been years and years and years that 12 process, we will continue to provide the oversight that 13 they've been sitting there and the groundwater quality 13 we've been providing to this investigation. I am not a 14 has not changed, all right? It has gotten better in 14 shy person. I do not hold back if I think that 15 Peters and the levels are coming down, but nothing has 15 something should be done in addition to what's been 16 ever gone on in O'Connor and that's unlikely to change 16 done. And we have continued to play that role and will 17 no matter what happens. 17 continued to do it. 18 I've been asked the question well what 18 And anytime that something occurs where we 19 happens if we get a storm event, what happens if we 19 get the concern related to anything that I'm picking up 20 have an earthquake? What happens if we have, you 20 or Wanda's picking up or Scott's picking up, that 21 know, anything along those lines? Well, let me tell 21 concern is generated before anybody comes to us. 22 you, we've already had those. All right? 22 We have a different approach that existed in 23 During the course of our investigation from 23 the past. We are not knee jerking to someone else's 24 the early 2000's to the present date, all right, 24 directive. We are generating the directive. That's 25 there's over 22 earthquakes that have occurred right 25 the reason why when the sampling was done earlier in ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 50 52 1 April of 2015, we were the ones who identified it. We 1 redevelopment lawyer. I've been focused on 2 were the ones who said we need to look into this. We 2 environmental law exclusively since 1992, over 24 3 were the ones who said additional sampling was 3 years. I began my career in environmental law being a 4 necessary. 4 Deputy Attorney General with the New Jersey State 5 We're not going to change that approach 5 Attorney General's office. My client was actually the 6 because that's the way we do business. All right? 6 New Jersey Department of Health and Environmental 7 That's my philosophy of doing business and that's 7 Protection for several years, the site remediation, 8 Wanda's. And I think that at the end of the day -- 8 cost recovery sections. 9 what are we doing, are we doing questions? 9 And like Lawra, I also have representation of 10 MR. HECK: We'll have Wanda do her 10 both private and public clients. I represent a number 11 presentation and then we'll take questions after that. 11 of municipalities and counties. I've been working on 12 MS. DODGE: So I just want to leave you with 12 remediating sites, small sites like a gas station, 13 a few, you know, closing thoughts. 13 corner gas station and large sites over 400 acres. 14 The process of evaluating these alternatives 14 With remediations that, you know, run the gamut of full 15 was exhaustive. The recommendations that were made 15 excavation and more commonly a cap remedies as well. 16 were based on the results of the investigation 16 I'm also a member of the Passaic County 17 completed in 2012. Additional information continues to 17 Brownfields Commission, having been appointed by the 18 be developed. It will continue to be looked at very 18 Passaic County Board of Chosen Freeholders. 19 closely. 19 I want to start with regard, in terms of 20 The drinking water is safe. Both the 20 background, how I came to represent the Borough on this 21 production wells that supply 97 percent of your water 21 matter in later 2008. And as Scott mentioned earlier 22 approximately and -- that's important for everybody to 22 that Plaintiff's toxic tort lawsuit was handled by 23 know that very clearly from me. And I'll be here 23 another lawyer in my firm. 24 throughout the night if there's another question. 24 And my task initially was to get a better 25 Thank you. 25 understanding of the technical and legal issues, what 51 53 1 (Audience applause) 1 work had been completed, the nature, quality and 2 MS. MONAHAN: Good evening everyone. I 2 thoroughness of that work due to the failed first 3 really appreciate your patience. I know this meeting 3 cleanup, because the Borough really did not want to 4 got started a little bit late and we apologize for 4 repeat that failure a second time. And also what work 5 that. 5 remained to be done and what time line would it take to 6 And I know Scott's already gone through a lot 6 achieve cleanup. 7 of the background. Lawra's done a great job, I think, 7 This entailed reviewing all of the documents 8 walking you all through the technical background which 8 in the Borough's possession, as you can imagine, it 9 we think is really important for many of you to 9 could fill a room this size. Working very closely with 10 understand. And you know I think she did it in a way 10 Lawra and her folks at Excel and their technical review 11 that's not so highly technical, because of course, you 11 of the documents and also with the Borough relative to 12 know, the data and the investigation work is really 12 the history of the property, including the ownership 13 highly technical, but we really try to make the 13 that Scott went through in his opening remarks. 14 presentation so that, you know, the average lay person, 14 At the time that I became involved on behalf 15 you know, someone who's not in our environmental world, 15 of the Borough of Ringwood, the Borough was facing 16 you know, could understand it. 16 threats of a lawsuit by Ford Motor Company for 17 And, you know, you could, you know, just jot 17 contribution for past costs, including the first 18 down some notes if you have questions for Lawra, we'll 18 cleanup, for over $31 million initially and also for 19 take those at the end. 19 the cost going forward, because there was still 20 Some of you may know who I am or recognize 20 investigation and obviously remediation work to be 21 me, you've seen me at various CAG meetings and public 21 done. 22 meetings. But I do want to start briefly by just 22 And the Borough was also facing a 2005 23 giving you a little bit of my background and my 23 unilateral administrative order that the EPA had issued 24 experience. 24 to the Borough requesting that the Borough perform 25 I am an environmental Brownfields 25 supplemental investigative work at the site that was ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 54 56 1 set forth in the statement of work. 1 While Ford continued to return to the site several 2 And as I went back through the documents to 2 times to remove more paint sludge, at the request of 3 prepare for tonight's meeting, you know, it was 3 the Borough and also at the request of several 4 interesting for me to note that in the first cleanup 4 residents, significant amounts of paint sludge were 5 the EPA only issued administrative orders on consent to 5 found in Cannon mine pit and also the OCDA, the 6 Ford to do first cleanup. First in March of 1984 for 6 O'Connor Disposal Area, both of which are now currently 7 them to do a remedial investigation of the site. 7 owned by the Borough. 8 And then two additional orders were issued in 8 In 2009 Ford made an initial settlement offer 9 June of 1987, one to do a feasibility study as well as 9 to the Borough, trying to address the threat of the $31 10 the order before and also to remove all paint sludge in 10 million claim for past costs, the allocation of the 11 the areas that had been identified in the remedial 11 current ongoing costs that they had incurred while the 12 investigation. 12 second cleanup began, the future investigation and 13 And that effort resulted in EPA issuing the 13 also, ultimately, the remediation costs, as well as the 14 first record of decision. And that's the document that 14 long term future operation and monitoring that would be 15 the agency issues to say what remedies should be 15 required after the remediation was completed. 16 implemented for the Superfund site that's been fully 16 September of 2010, after Excel was retained 17 investigated. 17 and completed their review, the Borough rejected the 18 That was issued in September of 1988. And in 18 Ford settlement offer. Negotiations are halted and 19 1998, the same year, the EPA formally identified Ford 19 then resumed and there were some accommodations made in 20 as a responsible party of the site and entered into an 20 terms of trying to see where we could come to agreement 21 agreement with Ford to do the long term monitoring that 21 with Ford and with the insurance companies on certain 22 was required in that record of decision. 22 issues. 23 Two years later in 1990 the EPA notified the 23 We came to realize very early that we were 24 Borough as a potentially responsible party. And as 24 never going to be able to resolve all of the issues, 25 Scott mentioned earlier, the Borough was forced to pay 25 all of the legal liabilities between the parties, and 55 57 1 a portion of the EPA's oversight costs. Those were the 1 so we made great effort to try to resolve what we could 2 costs that EPA's staff incurred in overseeing the first 2 resolve. 3 cleanup. 3 Meanwhile during this time the environmental 4 And the Borough paid $144,700 of EPA's costs. 4 investigation work was continuing to go on with Ford 5 Ford paid $435,600. And that's -- the Borough's share 5 removing paint sludge from several sludge removal areas 6 was about 28 and a half percent. And as Scott 6 that are referred to in the documents as the SR areas. 7 mentioned, that money was paid out of the taxpayer's 7 I believe we're up to 16 different SR areas. These are 8 money. The insurance companies refused to pay that 8 separate sludge removal areas, separate from the Peters 9 portion. 9 mine pit area, the Cannon mine pit area and the 10 And we mention that again because, you know 10 O'Connor Disposal Area. 11 there's been a lot of discussion in the public record 11 And Ford has fully cleaned up each of these 12 about the insurance coverage that the Borough of 12 16 sludge removal sites and has not looked to the 13 Ringwood has. 13 Borough for payment of those costs for their work. 14 And what is important for you to understand 14 As Scott mentioned earlier in his opening 15 is that we already have some experience and some 15 remarks, the Borough has made two separate requests to 16 incidents to point to relative to what kind of a fight 16 the EPA to try to help the residents here, both of 17 we're going to have with the insurance companies 17 which the EPA denied. 18 relative to coverage. 18 One was first to release the Borough as a 19 So here's where EPA's oversight costs, and in 19 responsible party due to the nature of how the Borough 20 my view and I know I'm looking backwards here, should 20 of Ringwood came to own this property, first the 21 have been fully covered and yet the insurance companies 21 O'Connor Disposal Area through the tax foreclosure and 22 refused to pay it and it came out of the Borough's 22 the HOW-TO Corporation and then secondly when the 23 pocket. 23 RSWMA, the Ringwood Salvage Management Authority, was 24 Continuing on with the background. The site 24 dissolved and that property fell to the Borough as the 25 was removed from the national priorities list in 1994. 25 sovereignty in charge. Again EPA denied that request ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 58 60 1 to release the Borough as a responsible party. 1 or more. And we certainly had that situation here in 2 We also asked the EPA to further help the 2 Ringwood. 3 residents by re-defining what was initially identified 3 So CERCLA, the environmental statute for the 4 as this 400 acre site. And I guess at that time no one 4 Borough government, required that EPA Region 2, which 5 knew in the beginning of this, you know, how extensive 5 is the region that New Jersey is in along with New 6 was the disposal and what were the outer limits of this 6 York, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, to take 7 disposal. 7 their remedy proposals to the National Remedy Review 8 So they basically drew a very large circle of 8 Board and present the facts, present the background on 9 that 400 acres that we knew over time while this 9 this Ringwood site and go over all of the remedial 10 remediation and investigation work was going on, it 10 alternatives that are in the feasibility study and then 11 really then filtered down to these 16 sludge removal 11 discuss with the Remedy Review Board what Region 2's, 12 areas which had been fully excavated. Post excavation 12 you know the current case team here, you know, locally, 13 samples have come back clean. The EPA and DEP have 13 what their recommendation was for the remedial actions 14 accepted those as full complete cleanups. 14 for each of these land areas. 15 And then we're left now with these three land 15 EPA initially thought they would be ready to 16 areas of concern. The Peters mine pit area, Cannon 16 go to the National Remedy Review Board in June of 2012, 17 mine pit and O'Connor Disposal Area. And if you add up 17 but unfortunately for whatever reason EPA wasn't ready. 18 the total acreage of these three land areas you only 18 I think they also realized that it would be a mistake 19 have about 30 acres. And we requested that the EPA re- 19 to go to the National Remedy Review Board prematurely. 20 define this Ringwood mines land or superfund site to be 20 As Lawra mentioned, EPA made a decision 21 instead of this 400 acre site, a 30 acre site, to help 21 somewhere along the way to separate the soil work from 22 try to remove some of the stigma that, you know, you as 22 the groundwater work. And by delaying going to the 23 residents and property owners in this town, you know, 23 NRRB by a year, it allowed the groundwater 24 suffer from. 24 investigation to catch up a little bit more so that 25 You know I've heard a lot through Scott, 25 they could be a little bit more certain. 59 61 1 through, you know, your comments to him relative to the 1 And frankly we were relieved that they waited 2 difficulties of trying to get a new mortgage, to 2 another year, because we were concerned that we didn't 3 refinance your mortgage, to sell a house, you know, and 3 necessarily have the full information relative to the 4 all of that. 4 groundwater to be making any sort of informed 5 And having this 400 acre site, you know, if 5 knowledgeable decisions and responsible decisions 6 you don't know any better, if you don't live in this 6 relative to the remedies for the land areas of concern. 7 town, you know, what do you think? You think all 400 7 As I mentioned earlier and it bears repeating 8 acres is full of paint sludge and it's all 8 now that this Mayor and Council would not go out ahead 9 contaminated, when we know and the EPA knows and agrees 9 prematurely, ahead of the EPA or the NJDEP throughout 10 that it's now confined to these three land areas that 10 this process. 11 again total only 30 acres. But again, EPA denied that 11 The Council held us back frankly and wanted 12 request. 12 to hear first what the federal and State environmental 13 Scott mentioned the National Remedy Review 13 experts had to say, including the National Remedy 14 Board process and I want to just elaborate on that a 14 Review Board, and then it wanted to hear from its 15 little bit so that you can understand the extensive, 15 retained environmental professionals and also to hear 16 and I think Lawra said exhaustive, the exhaustive 16 from the technical advisor for the Community Advisory 17 process by which this investigation has undergone 17 Group, the CAG, and the consultants for the Ford team. 18 review and scrutiny, not just by EPA and the DEP and 18 And only then could or would the Council make 19 Ford and the Borough. 19 any sort of informed decision and authorize the Borough 20 The National Remedy Review Board is a group 20 position to be made publicly official through a 21 of high level expert experienced EPA folks from every 21 properly presented and voted upon resolution. 22 region. There are 10 regions of EPA across the country 22 And during that NRRB process initially in May 23 to make up this National Remedy Review Board. And 23 of 2012, there were only 15 letters sent to the 24 they're tasked with reviewing any Superfund site for 24 National Remedy Review Board supporting the excavation 25 which the remediation is estimated to cost $25 million 25 remedy for OCDA. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 62 64 1 There were 13 citizen letters, five of whom 1 were Ringwood residents. 2 were residents, eight were non-residents, including one 2 I'm going to now talk a little bit about the 3 from New Hampshire. There was one combined letter from 3 insurance coverage. I mentioned it a little bit 4 Senators Lautenberg and Menendez at the time and there 4 earlier. I want to talk just a little bit more about 5 was a letter sent by the Edison Wetlands Association 5 it. It's been reported and stated publicly by various 6 and the Sierra Club. 6 attendees at different meetings that the Borough of 7 In the May 2013 NRRB process, there were 7 Ringwood has over $80 million of insurance coverage 8 eight letters sent. Five were residents, including a 8 and, you know, why is the Borough Council so concerned 9 member of the Sierra Club. Two were unknown, 9 about what the excavation remedy would cost at the 10 unidentified whether they were residents or not. And 10 O'Connor disposal area. 11 frankly one was trying to sell a product for 11 And tonight you've already heard the couple 12 remediation purposes. And there was one letter that 12 of instances of where these same insurers have refused 13 was sent opposing the excavation of the O'Connor 13 to pay for the Borough's costs which were paid then 14 Disposal Area. 14 directly by the Borough taxpayers. The EPA oversight 15 The Borough of Ringwood sent in comments 15 cost and also when Ford removed paint sludge from the 16 relative to its position at that time both in May of 16 SR 6 sludge removal area. They took out the paint 17 2012 and May of 2013. And in October of 2013 the EPA 17 sludge and they left the impacted residual waste for 18 issued what's called a proposed remedial action plan. 18 the Borough to get rid of. 19 So following their discussion with the NRRB 19 And the EPA directed the Borough to get rid 20 and comments that were made by the National Remedy 20 of it, not Ford, directed the Borough to get rid of 21 Review Board and the responses that EPA Region 2 gave 21 that waste. And the Borough did so. The insurance 22 to the NRRB, the EPA Region issued this practice which 22 companies refused to cover the Borough for removal of 23 debuted a preview of what they were going to select in 23 that waste and that was borne again by the taxpayers of 24 the record of decision for the remedial actions for 24 Ringwood. 25 these three areas. 25 So again we have a preview already as to the 63 65 1 And we also, the Borough, also had comments 1 willingness or I should say the reluctance of the 2 made relative to the proposed remedies. And in 2 insurance carriers to pay for and to cover the 3 addition to many of the risks and concerns that Lawra 3 Borough's costs relative to these remedial actions at 4 already went over, and I won't repeat them here, there 4 this site. 5 was a traffic study that was performed by Ford Motor 5 And we have to keep that in mind as one of 6 Company on behalf of Ford Motor Company talking about 6 the factors. There's absolutely no guarantee 7 the number of truck trips and whether or not that 7 whatsoever that the insurance companies would pay 8 effort over a two and a half year period for excavation 8 Ringwood's share of these remedial actions at this 9 would cause an increase risk of incident of both 9 site. 10 vehicular and pedestrian traffic accidents. 10 And also -- it also bears mentioning that, 11 And that study demonstrated there would be a 11 you know, an insurance policy has limits, right? You 12 significant increase in both vehicular and pedestrian 12 buy a life insurance policy or, you know, insurance on 13 accidents, as well as an increase in at least resulting 13 your house, it's for a certain amount of money. And so 14 in one fatality. 14 these insurance policies for the property are no 15 And as part of the Borough's comments there 15 different, they all have policy limits. 16 was a letter written by your Chief of Police that also 16 And all the money that the insurance 17 expressed concerns whether or not emergency response 17 companies have spent to date paid for the legal 18 vehicles would be able to traverse through the 18 defense, paid my fees, paid for Excel's fees and the 19 neighborhood amidst all the truck traffic that would be 19 professionals are paid before us, as well as the 20 required for the full excavation remedy. 20 contribution to the settlement of the toxic tort 21 And as some of you may recall and some of you 21 lawsuit. 22 may have attended, the EPA then held a public meeting 22 All of those payments have continued to erode 23 on November 7, 2013 to discuss the practice. And at 23 those policy limits. This is not a never ending open 24 that meeting there were 41 speakers, comments that were 24 checkbook. So that's something that you also have to 25 made. And among those 41 speakers, between eight to 15 25 keep in mind as well. And we don't know, you know, ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 66 68 1 what else, you know, might be down the road. 1 mixed in with the various fill material that can be 2 We're also dealing with the completion of the 2 safely contained under a properly designed remedial 3 investigation of the groundwater and we don't have a 3 cap. 4 sense yet, you know, a confident sense yet what EPA may 4 We know there's localized limited impact to 5 or may not require relative to the remediation of 5 groundwater that is attributable also to natural 6 groundwater and also what portion of that is going to, 6 occurring -- from the rock, the arsenic perhaps being 7 you know, be attributed to the Borough of Ringwood. 7 attributable also to the mine tailings. And that the 8 And not withstanding other factors, the 8 groundwater out of O'Connor is not migrating. 9 Borough of Ringwood can't take voluntary action, 9 Although we don't have the same concerns with 10 because if you take voluntary action, if you're not 10 O'Connor that we do for the other two areas, Peters 11 forced to take the action, but you do it voluntarily, 11 mine and Cannon mine, because those are pits, these are 12 the insurance companies will absolutely deny coverage 12 deep, you know, areas. You know, O'Connor is 13 because you are doing something of your own volition. 13 surficial, that there is nothing, you know, really deep 14 You're not being required to by any sort of 14 there. 15 governmental entity. 15 What's happened, you know, historically at 16 And so if the Borough were sued, you know, 16 the O'Connor Disposal Area, as Lawra went over, from 17 there would be coverage to defend the lawsuit. But 17 the mid 1700's through to the early 1900's, this area 18 understand that lawsuits will mean delay and it will 18 was used for mine ore processing operations. And the 19 mean time that will cause further delay relative to the 19 O'Connor disposal land, unfortunately, was used as a 20 completion of the remediation. 20 sluice pond to dry out the leftover mine tailings and 21 And as Scott said in his early remarks, you 21 they were left there and still remain there. 22 know, the primary concern for the Borough is to get 22 So you've got this, you know, kind of layer 23 this site fully remediated in such a way that it's 23 cake effect at O'Connor disposal. And again, you know, 24 fully protective of human health and the environment as 24 if any of you have ever been and I've been to the site 25 soon as possible, so they can get the site de-listed 25 several times, as you might imagine, when you're 67 69 1 from the NCP and so they can remove this stigma from 1 standing at the top of Peters Mine Road and you walk 2 your community. 2 down through to O'Connor Disposal Area all the way down 3 So all of these factors and as a lawyer and 3 to the Park Brook, when you get to the bottom and you 4 as a legal, you know, defense lawyer for the Borough of 4 look back up to the top of the road, you know, you may 5 Ringwood, these are all things that of course I have to 5 not realize that there's a fairly good steep slope 6 think about. 6 there, you know, just naturally occurring. 7 These are the things that I have been hired 7 But when you are down at the bottom by Park 8 to advise the Borough about relative to, you know, if 8 Brook and you look back up to see how high up Peters 9 you take this action, what are the potential 9 Mine Road is, you really have a sense of, you know, 10 ramifications. I'm not here to say that this will 10 just the topography that this property has taken. But 11 absolutely happen, that lawsuits will ensue. 11 when you go back up to the top of Peters Mine Road, and 12 But you know, these are the things that we 12 you look straight down, as Lawra said, the testing and 13 have to talk about with the Mayor and Council in terms 13 the investigation has already shown that there is fill 14 of possibilities and what does that mean to the Borough 14 material that would need to be removed as part of this 15 in terms of costs and in terms of, you know, how much 15 excavation remedy. It goes right up against Peters 16 further delay this could mean to the remediation 16 Mine Road for a length 1100 feet. 17 process. 17 So when you're standing there and you look 18 So in this time frame in 2011, what does the 18 down, straight down and try to visualize 16 to 20 feet 19 Borough know about the O'Connor Disposal Area? As 19 of that surface being removed. I mean you're really 20 Lawra mentioned we know that a significant amount of 20 creating this cliff and this, you know, very unsafe 21 paint sludge has already been removed from the OCDA, 21 condition and we are weighing that against the 22 the extensive trenching and test pits that Lawra went 22 potential, you know, additional protective benefit 23 over with you and that the Borough remains confident 23 relative to the remaining paint sludge that is in the 24 that what remains in the O'Connor Disposal Area is 24 O'Connor Disposal Area. 25 residue, meaning paint chips and remnants and likely 25 And because the Borough of Ringwood is the ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 70 72 1 current landowner of the O'Connor Disposal Area, as 1 have a more flat surface that will be easier to cap 2 their lawyer, that's something I've got to advise them 2 with 24 inches of clean soil as well as then building 3 about in terms of the future. Do we want to trade a 3 an asphalt recycling center on top of it. 4 present problem for a future problem for the Borough of 4 So in terms of protectiveness, you will be 5 Ringwood? 5 left with four acres of O'Connor disposal area which 6 The EPA was concerned about putting a cap in 6 will be fully clean and excavated down to the mine 7 this area, because they were concerned about the 7 tailings. And you'll be left with an eight acre cap of 8 historic use of these areas by trespassers and, you 8 again just residual paint chips that will be mixed in 9 know, more specifically ATV users and so forth, right? 9 with this fill. 10 So they're concerning about, you know, them tearing up 10 The cost estimate for the excavation remedy, 11 a soil cap and that's the reason why they didn't pick 11 in the record of decision, is $32 million. There's 12 the capping remedy to begin with and picked excavation. 12 also an alternative for excavation in the ROD that's 13 So with the excavation remedy, as Lawra said, 13 estimated at $26 million, which would leave all the 14 the only thing that the record of decision requires is 14 mine tailings in place. And that's compared and 15 after all this material is cut out and taken off site 15 contrasted against the $5 million cost to us for the 16 and disposed of, six inches of clean soil would be put 16 contingency remedy. 17 on. 17 So at this time in 2011, again what does the 18 And so, I wonder -- 18 Borough know about the O'Connor Disposal Area? It 19 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Six inches? 19 knows what the cost estimates are for the remedial 20 MS. MONAHAN: Six inches. It's in the record 20 alternatives and it also knows the Ford Motor Company 21 of decision. Six inches after you've removed over 16 21 is threatening to sue them for a minimum of $31 million 22 to 17 to 20 feet deep of this material. 22 plus the future cost going forward against the Borough. 23 And so as the property owner, you know, we've 23 And at this time in 2011, the Borough has 24 had discussions relative to are we trading a present 24 already paid to settle the toxic tort lawsuit in 2010. 25 problem for a future problem in terms of people 25 And again, there's no guarantee of insurance coverage. 71 73 1 trespassing on the property, getting hurt. And if 1 Lawra has already gone over what material 2 anybody gets hurt, who are they going to sue? They're 2 remains in OCDA, so I won't repeat those. But it's 3 going to sue the property owner. 3 interesting to note that in the EPA October 2013 4 So again, this is not the only factors, but 4 proposed remedial action plan that I referenced 5 it's one of many factors that the Mayor and Council 5 earlier, EPA states, and this is a direct quote: 6 have to think about. 6 “The excavational alternatives present the 7 Whether the excavation remedy or the 7 greatest potential for impacts on the community and 8 contingency remedy, that's the capping remedy 8 workers during implementation. The extensive 9 consolidation along with the proposed recycling center, 9 excavation, loading and off site transportation of 10 it will require that the entire surface of the O'Connor 10 contaminated fill associated with these excavational 11 disposal area, all 12 acres, will have to be clear. So 11 alternatives presents the greatest potential for 12 all the vegetation, the shrubs, the trees, everything 12 community overexposure to contaminated material.” 13 will have to be cleared out of there. 13 I want to talk a little bit about the actual 14 And as Lawra went over, the contingency 14 excavation remedy versus the contingency remedy. In 15 remedy is not just a cap, it requires that the fringes 15 the ROD, the EPA selected was known as Alternative 5A 16 of the outer portions of the O'Connor disposal area be 16 which calls for excavation, off site disposal and the 17 excavated and it also requires that any paint sludge or 17 on site re-use of mine tailings. 18 any drummed materials or any foreign waste that is 18 It calls for a full removal of all impacted 19 revealed during this consolidation excavation has to be 19 materials, including any solid waste, some of which has 20 removed by Ford and disposed of off site. 20 been alleged to have been put there by the Borough 21 So what you are keeping consolidated and 21 itself or the Ringwood Solid Waste Management Authority 22 moving into the center of O'Connor, into now a smaller 22 or was put there with the consent and knowledge of 23 eight acre area, will also build up the grade, the 23 either the Borough or the RSWMA. 24 elevation of this property. Instead of having this 24 These statements have been made publicly by 25 slope down from Peters Mine Road, you're now going to 25 some Ringwood residents themselves. And when you think ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 74 76 1 about the insurance coverage that you think you've got 1 the future, you know, liability of people getting hurt 2 protection under, if you contaminate or damage your own 2 there is the Borough has a real concern relative to 3 property, that is the best defense for the insurance 3 future illegal dumping. Again, do we want to trade a 4 company to say we don't cover that. 4 present problem for a potential future problem? 5 If you think about, you know, your own home 5 Also what I want to talk about now is to 6 owners insurance, if you do something to your own home 6 really go over the other factors. Lawra has gone 7 or to your own property, you're not going to get 7 through extensively the technical data relative to the 8 insurance coverage for it. If somebody else comes and 8 protectiveness of the remedies and frankly what remedy 9 damages your house of your property, that's what your 9 is appropriate for the O'Connor disposal area. 10 insurance is for. It's to cover you for third party 10 And so, as she mentioned, we have 30 years of 11 damage. 11 data, both soil and groundwater. We have the expert 12 And here our third -- we'll all agree what's 12 opinions of the National Remedy Review Board, the 13 third party damage here is the Ford paint sludge, 13 Federal EPA, the State NJDEP and also Excel 14 because clearly the Borough and the RSWMA did not put 14 Environmental Resources all stating unequivocally that 15 the Ford paint sludge at the property. That's the 15 the contingency remedy is fully protective of human 16 damage for which we believe we would get insurance 16 health and the environment. 17 coverage for. 17 And so the Council had to take that factor 18 But the difficulty in O'Connor is, as Lawra 18 into consideration along with these additional factors. 19 explained, the paint sludge has intermingled with all 19 The liability. Presently the Borough of 20 of this other solid waste, all this other garbage that 20 Ringwood has a responsibility, liability under CERCLA 21 Ford is going to clearly disclaim responsibility for. 21 to the EPA, because it's the owner of the property, 22 We already had an incident at the SR-6 area 22 that's just the way CERCLA is drafted. That liability 23 where Ford took out all of the paint sludge and the 23 is called strict liability. It's also a joint and 24 impacted material, they got rid of the paint sludge and 24 several liability. 25 they left the impacted material for the Borough to pay 25 Strict liability meaning you don't need any 75 77 1 for to get rid of. And EPA sided with Ford and 1 proofs. The fact that you are owner is proof enough, 2 directed the Borough to do that cleanup. 2 you have strict liability under CERCLA. 3 So we already have some foreshadowing here in 3 Joint liability means that the Borough and 4 terms of what Ford may do, what the insurance companies 4 Ford were both 100 percent liable for the remediation 5 may do and more importantly what EPA may direct the 5 and for the cost. Several liability means if Ford 6 Borough of Ringwood to do relative to the impacted 6 Motor Company were to fall by the wayside, the Borough 7 materials in the O'Connor disposal area. 7 is 100 percent responsible. The same would be true of 8 The contingency remedy, and that's again 8 Ford. 9 talking about excavating the four outer acres into a 9 And relative to liability, the EPA has 10 smaller eight acre area, leaving the four acres fully 10 already issued three separate unilateral administrative 11 excavated down to the mine tailings, would allow for a 11 orders to the Borough of Ringwood. One in 2005, as I 12 level grade to be built in this center portion of the 12 said, to conduct supplemental investigations of the 13 O'Connor Disposal Area to be re-used for the new 13 site. Another one is 2010 to conduct the remedial 14 recycling center. 14 investigation and feasibility study for the site. And 15 And while the cap itself, the 24 inches of 15 most recently in 2014, to conduct and to perform the 16 clean soil alone would be fully protective of human 16 remedial design for the land remedies that were in the 17 health and the environment, constructing the recycling 17 June of 2014 record of decision. 18 center on top of the capped OCDA would provide further 18 And more recently EPA has requested that both 19 protection through the asphalt of the recycling center. 19 Ford and the Borough sign an administrative order on 20 It would also have regular on site Borough personnel. 20 consent to fully implement these three land remedies. 21 It would also be fenced and it would also be secure and 21 And when you sign that document, you're signing on to 22 the area would also be lighted. 22 say you are jointly and severally liable. 23 One of the other risks I think that Lawra 23 So when you sign, you're not saying I'm 24 didn't mention relative to a full excavation area for 24 signing on for 10, 20 percent, you're saying I'm 25 O'Connor, besides this, you know, steep crevasse and 25 signing on for 100 percent. Both parties are saying ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 78 80 1 that, if the Borough were to sign that document. 1 the restoration of the ecological habitat, because if 2 Let's talk about future liability. With only 2 you don't have vegetation, you're not going to have 3 six inches of topsoil being required to enable re- 3 wildlife, you know, coming to the site. 4 vegetation of the O'Connor disposal area, we are 4 I don't want to repeat myself so I want to 5 concerned about the deep slopes that would be 5 just go over my notes here. 6 resulting. We are concerned about the illegal dumping. 6 Relative to potential future liability for 7 And we're also concerned, relative to the 7 the Borough of Ringwood, no one has talked about the 8 mine tailings. You know, both Scott and Lawra talked 8 possibility that if EPA were to select the excavation 9 about the consistency of these mine tailings. It's not 9 remedy at O'Connor Disposal Area, the possibility that 10 like it's pebbles and rocks. It is the fine 10 Ford would say no. Everyone seems to assume that if 11 consistency of flour or baby powder. 11 the EPA says excavation, Ford would just say yes and do 12 And so because most of that material is right 12 the excavation remedy and maybe sue the Borough for 13 at the bottom of Park Brook and the EPA has agreed that 13 contribution costs. 14 some of the arsenic at the site could be coming from 14 Ford already has a very good record relative 15 the mine tailings themselves. We as the property owner 15 to the protectiveness of the contingency remedy. And 16 of that property where these main tailings are, the 16 we believe that there's a real possibility that Ford 17 Borough has to be concerned about the future that if 17 would refuse to do the excavation cleanup, EPA would be 18 the mine tailings are only covered with six inches of 18 forced to bring an enforcement action against Ford and 19 soil, which is all that's required in the record of 19 frankly the Borough as a potentially responsible party. 20 decision by the EPA, that material eventually eroding 20 As I said earlier, if lawsuits do ensue, what 21 and falling into Park Brook and potentially causing a 21 will that result in? It will result in further delay 22 future arsenic problem. 22 of remediation of these sites. And as Scott said 23 Again, you know, are we willing to trade a 23 earlier, you know, the Council's first priority is to 24 present problem for a future problem? And again that's 24 get these sites remediated as quickly as possible in a 25 my job to at least advise the Borough as to the 25 manner that's fully protective of human health and the 79 81 1 potential future liabilities in their decision making 1 environment. 2 process. 2 And so in those lawsuits, the Borough would 3 Another issue that's been raised in the 3 be forced to hire a lawyer to defend it in that 4 public forum that I want to talk about as well is the 4 lawsuit. Whether or not, you know, the insurance 5 future re-use of the land. The zoning for the O'Connor 5 coverage would kick in is also another unknown or 6 Disposal Area has been brought up several times. 6 whether that would be, you know, borne by the taxpayers 7 The zoning for the O'Connor disposal property 7 of Ringwood. 8 is what's known as R40-D. The permitted principal uses 8 We've also talked already about the efforts 9 include single family dwellings, municipal parks and 9 by the Borough to get some protection or some limit of 10 playgrounds, municipal parks and playgrounds, municipal 10 liability from EPA itself and at that request EPA has 11 buildings, library and fire stations and parks and 11 said no to the Borough. You know, perhaps that's worth 12 playgrounds to be owned and operated by the 12 revisiting at this point, you know, with the agency, 13 Neighborhood Property Association on a non-profit 13 whether or not they would want to help the Borough. 14 basis. 14 So I mentioned earlier that relative to how 15 The Borough of Ringwood has presented the 15 the Borough came to own the O'Connor Disposal Area, 16 proposed recycling plant as a courtesy review to the 16 because that's primarily the land area that we're 17 Planning Board in Ringwood and there were no objections 17 talking and focusing on tonight. 18 raised at that Planning Board hearing. 18 In the CERCLA statute there is a provision 19 With the complete deforestation that both the 19 under Section 101:20D that says that: 20 excavation and the contingency remedy were to require 20 “The term “owner or operator”, the owner, 21 at O'Connor Disposal Area, we do question how long the 21 does not include a unit of State of local government 22 re-vegetation would taken for the upper Ringwood area 22 which acquired ownership or control involuntarily 23 residents to be able to enjoy the plant food gathering, 23 through bankruptcy, tax delinquency, abandonment or 24 the hunting and cultural resources. 24 other circumstances in which the government 25 We also have the same concerns relative to 25 involuntarily acquires title by virtue of its function ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 82 84 1 as sovereign.” 1 The Borough team continues to evaluate the 2 So that's something that I think that, you 2 1,4-Dioxane closely and as Scott and Lawra and the 3 know, could be further explored with the EPA, perhaps 3 Mayor have already mentioned there is no impact 4 with the assistance of the residents. 4 whatsoever to the drinking water. The drinking water 5 The other environmental concerns that the 5 in the Borough of Ringwood is safe. 6 council has considered is whether or not the Borough 6 As Scott said at the outset of the meeting, 7 should support an excavation remedy which only means 7 the purpose was to provide the Council and also the 8 taking this contaminated impacted fill material, moving 8 public with a complete and accurate background leading 9 it out of Ringwood and placing it in a landfill 9 up to the Council's consideration before taking the 10 somewhere else, preferably out of state. And so are 10 actions that they took in the past few years. 11 you really solving an environmental problem or are you 11 We believe that this presentation, while 12 just transferring the problem to someone else. 12 quite extensive and long, should answer most, if not 13 (Multiple persons speaking at same time) 13 all, the questions that have been raised in the prior 14 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It's going to get ugly in a 14 two CAG meetings. 15 few minutes and you know, I know I'm out of order, but 15 We thank you for your patience in listening 16 I think we should end this and have the public's point 16 and for allowing us to finish. I'll turn the meeting 17 of view. 17 back over to the Mayor to begin the questioning and 18 MS. MONAHAN: I think that we -- I just have 18 comments section of the meeting. Thank you. 19 a couple more closing remarks and -- 19 (Audience applause) 20 (Multiple persons speaking) 20 MAYOR SPEER: Thank you, Wanda. I'm going to 21 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: People are leaving. 21 ask the members of Council, I think we've all heard 22 MS. MONAHAN: We understand it's late. We 22 this presentation, you know, a couple of times. Do we 23 have attended many CAG meetings that went past the 23 have any questions from the Council table or should we 24 time. We have never allowed -- we have never stopped 24 turn right to the public? 25 any of those meetings. 25 MS. ANDERSON: I just have one comment, the 83 85 1 And again for those folks who have not been 1 time line that was handed out, just so people know it's 2 privy to all of the information, we want all the 2 not quite accurate, just so that they know that. 3 residents to have all the information so that you can 3 MAYOR SPEER: Yeah, I haven't seen that. 4 understand and then make your own decisions about how 4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: All the way in the 5 you feel about what's happening in this town. 5 beginning, we have these CAG meetings. The EPA doesn't 6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You've given this 6 give us a spot on the agenda? 7 information already. 7 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I can hardly hear you. 8 MS. MONAHAN: Where are we today? The 8 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: My question is for the 9 Borough, Ford and the agencies have been -- 9 Council, we have these CAG meetings, however the EPA 10 (Multiple persons talking at same time) 10 does not provide us with a spot on the agenda. That's 11 MS. MONAHAN: -- working together on 11 my question. 12 designing selective remedies and also completing the 12 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- you want one? They'll 13 groundwater investigation, including the 1,4-Dioxane. 13 give you one. 14 And if we stay on schedule the remedy implementation 14 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The Mayor sits on CAG, 15 can begin as early as the first quarter of 2017. 15 right? The Council -- sits on CAG. 16 The detection of 1,4-Dioxane that was 16 MS. MONAHAN: Right. Both Mayor Speer and 17 mentioned earlier, as you know, was due solely to the 17 Councilwoman Schaefer sit as non-voting members on the 18 Borough's action to take samples of the groundwater in 18 CAG. While the Borough of Ringwood is not on the 19 2015. 19 agenda, like the EPA and the NJDEP are, the Borough of 20 The Borough has been and will continue to 20 Ringwood, Scott Heck, the Borough Manger, and myself 21 remain vigilant in its oversight, participation and 21 have attended nearly all of the CAG meetings, but for a 22 involvement of all aspects of the proposed work and 22 long time they were taking place monthly. 23 implementation of the approved work plans, the 23 And when questions are asked of the Borough, 24 technical evaluation, the scrutiny of the data and the 24 we do respond and so forth. But we participate in 25 conclusions that are drawn. 25 those meetings like the members of the public could ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 86 88 1 attend those meetings as well. 1 the record. 2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: We don't have -- the 2 MR. BELL: Hi, Lad Bell, 16 Chris Terrace. 3 Ringwood residents don't have a spot on the agenda 3 COURT REPORTER: Spell your name and address, 4 either. 4 please. 5 MS. MONAHAN: Well, the CAG is made up of 5 MR. BELL: L-A-D B-E-L-L, 16 Chris, C-H-R-I-S 6 mostly Upper Ringwood area residents. 6 Terrace. Three minutes, Mr. Mayor? 7 MAYOR SPEER: We're going to go with the 7 MAYOR SPEER: Yes, please, sir, if you could. 8 public in just one second, as a matter of fact. And as 8 You can come back again if you need to, but I just want 9 far as the CAG goes, the Borough -- there would be a 9 to make sure we get enough people through. 10 Borough spot on the agenda a few years ago when we had 10 MR. BELL: Okay. The question remains -- I 11 like the relocation issues and all that kind of stuff. 11 have other questions. I'm going to start off with the 12 There would be a time when the CAG would question the 12 government's first duty is to protect the people, not 13 Borough about the status of these things and such. 13 run their lives. 14 It was really -- the CAG is more about the 14 I also want to congratulate the Ringwood 15 EPA and the DEP getting their presentation out to the 15 Police Department. If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't 16 community is where we took it. There was no need for 16 be named the 69th out of 100 safest places to live in 17 the -- in the same room, in this room, you know, 17 the country, so congratulations. 18 another week later, there would be a Council meeting 18 How much did the Borough pay for this $87 19 and there would be another Council meeting a few weeks 19 million dollar indemnification policy? How much money 20 after that in between these CAG meetings. 20 is left on it? Can we sue the insurance company for 21 So there wasn't really a need for the Council 21 not honoring the policy? If New Jersey Manufacturing 22 to be, you know, kind of preaching to the CAG. 22 didn't honor my policy, I'd be all over them, I'd be 23 Also one other thing, our experts always do 23 suing them. 24 kind of -- the EPA for splitting out these land areas 24 I'd like to know what your hourly rate is. 25 and the groundwater solution. That was done at the 25 And your salary is being paid for by this insurance 87 89 1 request of the CAG. I thought it was a good idea at 1 policy for the Borough. And where did the 1,4-Dioxane 2 the time. 2 come from? 3 What it was, was the CAG was really concerned 3 MAYOR SPEER: Good questions. 4 that this wasn't moving fast enough. So they said you 4 MR. BELL: You're rescinded. This is as 5 know what, if you can't starting drilling holes and 5 simple as taking your pen, a stroke of a pen, rescind 6 getting your groundwaters done, start with this and 6 resolution 2013-338 dated 12/17 of '13. We don't want 7 they just kept on pushing and pushing. 7 a recycling center, the Borough is the one who wants a 8 The CAG, I'll tell you what, it was grueling, 8 recycling center. You, Council, want a recycling 9 it was tough. They were not easy on anybody, 9 center, nobody else wants it on O'Connor. They want 10 especially and foremost EPA. I observed for eight 10 the stuff removed. 11 years. The CAG and the -- the CAG had a technical 11 (Audience applause) 12 advisor paid for by the EPA through Ford. And they 12 MR. BELL: The $87 million indemnification 13 would beat EPA mercilessly. 13 policy is for legal defense costs, is that true or 14 I've got to tell you folks, I think we got as 14 false? 15 well as a government program could work, this Superfund 15 Another disturbing thing which I've been 16 program kind of worked for it. If we don't like the 16 bleary-eyed on line, working on line, is the $1,739 17 solution, don't like the answer, but it -- there was no 17 airline tickets to the Ford headquarters on November 18 -- there was no limit to the input that the public had 18 20th of 2012. It was just tickets. Now was that paid 19 and the residents had and this CAG had to the EPA. 19 for by Ford, the insurance policy, the Borough. We 20 We're going to go to take some public 20 gave this man back his money. 21 questions. I'd like to have Ringwood residents come up 21 Although it's interesting under the bill list 22 first. Please step up to the microphone. Keep a 22 or any other resolution, I couldn't find any hotel 23 little distance between yourself and the microphone, 23 bills, any car bills. Did you eat? Why did you have 24 because you might break it up a little bit. 24 to go to them? Why didn't they come to us? They 25 Please state your name and your address for 25 created the problem. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 90 92 1 So again I want answers to these questions. 1 Mr. Bell, if you could assist us, because you asked a 2 They made the mess. They should have came here. The 2 lot of questions and we want to make sure we answer all 3 phones weren't working? You had to meet them face-to- 3 of them 4 face? And as petty as it is, I want to know where you 4 I think your questions were relative to the 5 stayed. I want to know where you ate and I want to 5 insurance policies. Number one, how much was paid for 6 know who paid for that. 6 those policies? I don't have the answer, I mean I 7 We are 69 out of 100 safest places to live in 7 don't know if -- 8 this country. We are the number one toxic waste site 8 MR. HECK: I'd have to look at the -- I'd 9 in this country. That's great, that's really great. 9 have to look back in the '80's to find out what the 10 You're laughing. I don't think it's very funny, Mr. 10 price was. I can do that. 11 Mayor. 11 MS. MONAHAN: And I'm sorry, could you just 12 Another thing is why did we have to sign in, 12 go back, yeah, just slowly so we can answer the 13 in this Council meeting? Any other Council meeting, 13 questions. We didn't want to interrupt you. 14 you don't have to sign in. Another question. 14 MR. BELL: With all due respect -- 15 Correct the liability before others become 15 (Several persons speaking at the same time) 16 ill or even worse. I'm embarrassed and I want to owe 16 MS. MONAHAN: We didn't want to interrupt 17 the Ramapo Indians an apology for not getting involved 17 you. 18 12 years ago. I'm only giving you -- 18 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- write down the 19 (Audience applause) 19 questions. 20 MR. BELL: I'm embarrassed. To the people I 20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: May I suggest a process. 21 know on the Council, I'm embarrassed to be a resident, 21 We will write down all of your questions, you will be 22 because this is going on for how long? How long? And 22 answered on them publicly on the Ringwood website. Is 23 there's no end in sight. 23 that acceptable? 24 You spoke very well and I understand 24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, we want to hear them 25 perfectly what you say. When this attorney started 25 here. 91 93 1 speaking, that was the end of it. That was, you know, 1 MR. HECK: I have some of the questions. The 2 I don't want to insult anybody, but we want the poisons 2 first was how much did the policies cost. I would have 3 out of the ground. If they're commingled, who cares? 3 to look at that, I wasn't here back then. 4 It's HAZMAT technicians. Level one HAZMAT suits. Get 4 (Several people talking in the background) 5 them in, get it out of here. 5 MS. MONAHAN: You're not going to be able to 6 And as far as putting it somewhere else, FYI, 6 hear the answers. 7 no one in this country is accepting the toxic waste, 7 MR. HECK: The next question, Wanda, was 8 it's going to Canada. Yes or no? Yes or no? 8 where did the 1,4-Dioxane come from. Lawra will 9 MS. DODGE: That's not true actually. 9 probably answer that better. 10 MR. BELL: Okay, please, just clarify. We 10 MAYOR SPEER: It's a technical question, so 11 need these clarify. And as long as you meet, in 11 it needs a technical answer. 12 closing, in confidential executive sessions on matters 12 MS. DODGE: This is Peters up here. The 1,4- 13 of public concern, we're not going to be privy to it. 13 Dioxane was detected in the water at the base of this 14 It's all -- you can talk about anything you want. Who 14 structural mine feature that's sampled. 15 knows what transpired -- what transpired in Michigan 15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It's a shaft. 16 with Mr. Heck and the Council? 16 MS. DODGE: It's a shaft, but it's -- I mean 17 But on the mere surface of it, it does not 17 I'm not sure if everybody knows that. That's -- at the 18 smell good. Thank you. 18 base of that is where we located it for the first time 19 (Audience applause) 19 and in certain wells that are in the Peters area down 20 MR. CONNELLY: -- 20 gradient, meaning down flow direction. 21 MAYOR SPEER: There was quite a bit there, 21 We are still in the process of investigating 22 should we try to take that apart a little bit. Give us 22 the area in general, looking at all of these wells, and 23 just one second Mr. Connelly. We will try to be brief. 23 it's good question, because it may have been in all of 24 Wanda? 24 these wells that are being sampled again, but right now 25 MS. MONAHAN: Yeah, I guess I'll start and, 25 -- looking at the area if comes from is what we're ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 94 96 1 doing now. 1 There's nothing else to -- there's no other shoe that's 2 This is not a site that 1,4-Dioxane, for 2 going to drop per se. You know, that's not what this 3 anyone who knows it -- you'll find that it is typically 3 process is. 4 associated with chlorinated solvents, things like 4 This is a highly regulated process. There's 5 glassoline. That is not what you have at this site. 5 a list of specific things that EPA looks for and 6 So it was never something that we would have 6 requires us to look for. 7 thought to look for, that we would have suspected this 7 Now, as we said before, being an inner 8 deep. And the levels again were in the Peters mine 8 process, being a dynamic process, as science evolves 9 area and not in the down gradient. 9 EPA could ask us to look for another constituent, but 10 It's not related to the materials. There's 10 in all my 33 years of doing this, that's happened like 11 no indication at all, at this point in time, as I'm 11 one time. So it's not something that likely will 12 standing in front of you now, of it being from here. 12 happen again. 13 It's up in this area. And what it is, is an additive 13 So that's why we constantly monitor and 14 to a chlorinated solvent. So the question becomes well 14 that's where that monitoring will continue. But I'm 15 why would you see the additive and not the chlorinated 15 glad you asked that question. 16 solvent? 16 So right now the surface water criteria, 17 So that's a good question and that's what 17 because there is none for 1,4-Dioxane, we are now 18 we're looking at. 18 looking and Ford is going to be looking at this, 19 MS. DODGE: No, there was dioxane that had 19 working with the EPA, what is the appropriate standard 20 been detected in samples in the upper regions up here 20 for surface water? 21 and then down, as it goes down that direction, but at 21 And if you want to look at this, 1,4-Dioxane, 22 levels that are now -- to a groundwater quality 22 D-I-O-X-A-N-E, all right, surface water screening 23 standard, because there is no surface water quality 23 levels in California, Oregon and Michigan. Those are 24 standard that exists for dioxane. 24 three states where there are screening levels that have 25 It's not -- it is considered a merging 25 been developed. And in all of those places you'll see 95 97 1 contaminant, it's coming on to the radar screen and so 1 that the levels are in the part per million range, not 2 because it's not a suspect site for it, it was not 2 the part per billion range. 3 looked for specifically, but it was found when we did 3 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What about the -- 4 our samples, it was -- a different methodology that we 4 MAYOR SPEER: Please, please. We want to get 5 wanted to double check the work and then we identified 5 more public comments on the record. 6 it. 6 MS. DODGE: So that's something you can look 7 Now it did not just get discharged, it's been 7 into if you want to inform yourself to get a better 8 there from the beginning. 8 understanding of it. And again, we have continued to 9 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Are there other chemicals 9 monitor the surface water and -- I hope I've answered 10 there? 10 your question. 11 MS. DODGE: No, I think -- 11 MR. HECK: Okay. I'm going to the next 12 MAYOR SPEER: It's hard to track that. 12 statement was he wants us to rescind the recycling 13 MS. DODGE: No, there are no -- the question 13 plan. The third statement was the Borough of Ringwood 14 I was asked and it's a very important one and I'm glad 14 spent $1,739 to send myself, Wanda to Michigan to talk 15 you asked it, which is were there any other chemicals 15 to Ford. I'll let Wanda explain why we did that. 16 that we're missing. 16 And that was the -- he wanted to know where I 17 When an analysis is done it's done by regular 17 stayed? Across the street, I don't remember the name 18 lists that EPA puts out into the world and says this is 18 of the hotel. He wanted to know where I ate? In the 19 the list you have to follow. This one constituent and 19 hotel, because you can't drive around or walk in 20 two others somehow didn't get on that list. The two 20 Michigan because it's not very safe. I don't know if 21 others are nowhere on the site. The one was the 1,4- 21 you've been there. 22 Dioxane that was, you know, detected up in here. 22 And you want to know who paid. Well, I paid 23 And we now have gone back and double checked 23 for myself. I think the total bill, which I'm sure 24 it all and that's it. There's no more lists, there's 24 you've already looked at if you knew that much 25 no more other constituents that are going to be missed. 25 information, was $1,739 for both us, inclusive of hotel ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 98 100 1 and travel and transportation back and forth to the 1 And then soil that was in contact with that 2 hotel. 2 was already removed and some of that did go out as 3 I will let Ms. Monahan answer why we went 3 hazardous waste, some didn't. 4 there. 4 There are disposal facilities in Canada that 5 MS. MONAHAN: As I mentioned in my comments, 5 do receive it, but there are also facilities all across 6 we had several discussions with Ford relative to their 6 the United States that also are certified and permitted 7 settlement offer made in 2009 and Ford, as you may 7 to receive it. There's a facility called Model City in 8 know, travels to New Jersey quite frequently for the 8 New York, there's facilities in Michigan in Lansing and 9 CAG meetings that took place monthly. 9 there's others across the country in different 10 We took it upon ourselves to go out to 10 locations. 11 Michigan because we were at a critical juncture in 11 So it really is a question of what its 12 terms of the settlement negotiations relative to many 12 characteristics would be. Some of it would go out as 13 factors including the $31 million threat of a lawsuit. 13 solid waste, I mean, because a lot of what's in there, 14 That's the reason for the trip. 14 as I said before, is solid waste. 15 MR. HECK: The next question was why did you 15 The quality of the fill that's in O'Connor 16 sign in, you never signed in at Borough Council 16 disposal area is not dissimilar to a lot of ground fill 17 meetings. Well, Ica n give you two answers for that. 17 sites that we work on where that material could even, 18 You sign in at every CAG meeting, they ask you for more 18 you know, go to facilities that are in the tri-State 19 information, they ask you for, I think, your phone 19 area, depending upon the levels. There's nothing in 20 number, your e-mail, your what not. 20 there that's high enough, from all the data that I've 21 Also for our building. We have to provide 21 looked at, that would preclude it from going to certain 22 security. We have people in the back. If there's a 22 facilities that are fairly local. 23 fire here, we need to know, the police officers need to 23 MR. HECK: Okay. The next question was what 24 know who's here so we can assure that everybody gets 24 are your fees. 25 out. We don't know who's here. We have no idea except 25 MS. MONAHAN: Right. 99 101 1 for the sign-in sheet and that's a fact of life. 1 MR. HECK: And I will tell you, before you 2 They do this in schools. No, we do this at 2 even -- you can answer how much your fees, we 3 every public meeting where there's a lot of people. 3 negotiated with the insurance carriers to pay our 4 And this is the first public meeting we've had where we 4 defense fees for Ms. Monahan, which was different than 5 have an alternate location. 5 what the previous Council had done. They paid for it 6 They do this in schools, so that they know 6 and then tried to get reimbursement from the insurance 7 that they can evacuate the building. And if you don't 7 carriers and that's another example where there was 700 8 believe that you can talk to the Chief of Police, 8 and some thousand dollars worth of fees and I think we 9 because he's the one who requires these things so that 9 only recovered 500,000 of those fees from that. 10 we can ensure who's here in case of an emergency. 10 So we in turn decided, hey let's get ahead of 11 I didn't get anything afer that. 11 this, let's go to the insurance companies, let them 12 MS. MONAHAN: Yeah, well there are no 12 select an attorney with us and let them pay for her 13 facilities in the US with the hazardous wastes. It all 13 fees and Lawra's fees. 14 goes to Canada. 14 MS. MONOHAN: Right. And there's Council 15 MR. HECK: Oh, yeah. 15 resolutions authorizing my retention and the hourly 16 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Attorney fee was a 16 rate that I'm paid by the insurance companies is $285 17 question. 17 an hour. 18 MS. DODGE: Just the material that would be 18 MR. BELL: How much of the $87 million 19 generated from any excavation of O'Connor, it's not a 19 insurance -- 20 given that it would be hazardous waste in the first 20 MAYOR SPEER: Mr. Bell, we'll get you an 21 place. Because as Wanda was trying to explain and I 21 answer on that. How much of the $87 million has 22 was trying to explain before, the investigation 22 already been wound down. We will have to look into 23 identified the areas where paint sludge existed and 23 that. 24 that material has already been removed. The big 24 MR. HECK: I asked the insurance company to 25 deposits that were the flows as they call it. 25 give me the total. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 102 104 1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You were chosen by the 1 water quality standard. 2 insurance company? 2 And this is another thing I should mention is 3 MR. HECK: No. That's not what I said. What 3 that the EPA has not developed a drinking water 4 I said was we had a collective group where we selected 4 standard for us. The drinking water standard may be 5 groups of attorneys and we got the approval of the 5 consistent with the groundwater quality standard. 6 insurance carriers. 6 In other states, this is something that you 7 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Yeah, okay, but again, the 7 can also Google, groundwater quality criteria in other 8 approval of the insurance carriers -- 8 states, drinking water recommendations, EPA has a fact 9 MR. HECK: To pay for the fees. 9 sheet online that you can download on. 1,4-Dioxane and 10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Okay. 10 you can go through all the different data there and 11 MR. HECK: We selected the individual, but 11 you'll see some very high standards, much higher than 12 they were involved in the process in that we got them 12 anything we've seen up here that EPA is saying is still 13 to agree to pay for the fees. 13 within a range that's safe. 14 MAYOR SPEER: Let's go to the next speaker, 14 MR. HECK: Mr. Connelly, just so I can 15 please. Name and address for the record. 15 follow-up. Trace levels at one location, we re-tested 16 MR. CONNELLY: Al Connelly, 49 Channing 16 and we re-tested again in 2016 and they're non-detected 17 Drive. 17 in any of the wells. 18 COURT REPORTER: Spell both, please. 18 MS. DODGE: Right. In 2013 it was checked 19 MR. CONNELLY: C-O-N-N-E-L-L-Y. Channing, 19 and found to be non-detected. And then again in 2016. 20 C-H-A-N-N-I-N-G Drive, D-R. 20 MR. CONNELLY: Okay. Now the next question 21 First question, Mayor Speer, you said that 21 is something that I've been hearing pieces of it, we've 22 Upper Ringwood is not connected to the Ringwood water 22 gone through about tearing out all of this fill and 23 supply. So maybe you didn't get this latest piece of 23 then I heard that we're talking about using that area 24 information from EPA dated April 20th, that 1,4-Dioxane 24 as an asphalt recycling area? 25 has been detected, trace levels, in the Borough water 25 MS. DODGE: No, not asphalt recycling. It 103 105 1 supply. 1 would be an asphalt paved surface above the soil cap 2 Now one of two things is true. One, your 2 and then above that it would be a recycling center that 3 information was not in sync or two, there's another 3 would be -- 4 source. 4 MR. CONNELLY: Oh, okay. So in effect then 5 MS. DODGE: There was a concentration in one 5 we're putting a cap -- you're talking about putting a 6 of the wells in 2013, I think it was 0.1 parts per 6 cap and then putting another cap on top of that? 7 billion and change, 0.1, in one well, one time and then 7 MS. DODGE: Correct. 8 it was re-sampled and found to be non-detected, 0.07 8 MR. CONNELLY: So it seems to me like whoever 9 which is parts per billion micrograms per liter. 9 is wanting that is a little crazy, but that's -- 10 That detection, and I'm glad you brought this 10 MS. DODGE: That's EPA. 11 up, because 1,4-Dioxane, being that it is a common 11 MS. MONAHAN: That's EPA. 12 thing that is starting to be seen in drinking systems 12 MR. CONNELLY: Oh, the EPA. Thank you. The 13 in other places, could be coming from virtually 13 EPA is created by -- it's not an act of God, we know 14 anywhere. 14 that. And we know that Congress does what they're paid 15 And so it is something that is on the 15 to do. Why is Ford almost the vestal virgin in this 16 Department of Environmental Protection's radar screen 16 thing, right? 17 now in New Jersey. You probably have seen in the 17 So we need to be -- I urge the Council and 18 Record that other towns in North Jersey and other 18 whoever else to be a little more proactive in getting 19 places, even in Central New Jersey now, are looking for 19 our representatives to take control of the creature 20 it, because it has now risen to everyone's attention 20 that they created. And that's the end of my story. 21 where even a year ago it had not at that point. 21 MAYOR SPEER: Real quick. Congressman 22 The reason -- so the level is not related to 22 Lautenberg when he was alive sent a representative to 23 Ringwood, not to the Superfund site, it is not. It's 23 just about every CAG meeting. Senator Lautenberg, 24 in a completely different water bearing zone then the 24 sorry about that. Senator Menendez used to send a 25 Superfund site itself and that .1 is also below the 0.4 25 representative to every CAG meeting. Congressman ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 106 108 1 Garrett (phonetic) recently started to send 1 this 1,4-Dioxane thing. It was just benzine. They 2 representatives to the CAG meetings. 2 were seeing some benzine, it was found deep in the 3 Menendez and Lautenberg sent a letter 3 Peters Mine pit, there would be different 4 requesting a full cleanup to the EPA and you see what 4 concentrations. They knew there had to be a source, 5 EPA came back with. They came back with -- and this is 5 they couldn't find the source. 6 important, I think we're missing this. There's three 6 But the thing about the benzine is that they 7 land areas here that are getting capped. There's the 7 couldn't find it anywhere else. They took great pains 8 Cannon mine area, most of that property is owned by the 8 to look for it. They looked for it underneath the Park 9 Borough. It has a whole different fact pattern than 9 Brook thinking that it was actually in the groundwater 10 what Wanda went through with the relationship between 10 and coming up. Because as soon as benzine hits air, it 11 how much sludge, how much solid waste and how much old 11 dissipates and it's gone. But they went hunting for it 12 mine stuff, shock rock, is in that hole. 12 everywhere, they can't find this benzine. 13 And then there's the Peters mine pit, which 13 So that's kind of where it's at. I just 14 is really cool that they didn't decide to cap that. 14 wanted to kind of make it clear. I don't even know how 15 They didn't decide to fully remove all that material 15 I got started on it. Sorry folks. 16 there, because that one's owned by the State, all 16 MS. DODGE: I just want to clarify one point. 17 right? So they don't get that strict liability stuff 17 The data that we have does not indicate at this point 18 that they stuck the Borough with for some reason. 18 that 1,4-Dioxane in groundwater is underneath the 19 And that has also a different combination of 19 O'Connor Disposal Area. 20 solid waste and paint sludge residue and old mining 20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- 21 waste in it. But that one is different in that that 21 MS. DODGE: Yeah, yeah, no. Right now, and 22 one actually hasn't impacted groundwater. As long as 22 again, -- 23 they're showing that 1,4-Dioxane seems to be coming 23 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That was not in your 24 from the Peters mine pit, actually going from the 24 statement. 25 Peters mine pit and traveling underneath the O'Connor 25 MS. DODGE: No. Because the data right now 107 109 1 Disposal Area. 1 is showing that's in just the Peters mine pit area and 2 EPA decided not to fully remediate, fully 2 again it dissipates and we are still evaluating that 3 remove that, and that has actual impacts to 3 source and looking at the co-occurrence of the levels 4 groundwater. You would notice that that is polluted 4 of benzine. 5 from somewhere outside of the site. I would think that 5 Benzine is very biodegradable, as John 6 is a big criteria here. 6 indicated quite accurately. It will degrade -- it will 7 Now the O'Connor Disposal Area, as Lawra was 7 degrade through other processes and that's why the EPA 8 describing, they couldn't even find paint sludge when 8 has been looking at monitoring Peters and has approved 9 they went in there for their investigation. They did a 9 a capping remedy for it, because again there's no 10 remedial investigation to try to figure out okay, what 10 principal threat waste in any of these three areas that 11 kind of answers will work here. And then they went 11 would have risen to a level where more aggressive 12 back this year or the end of last year and they did 12 action would have been warranted. We do not have 13 another investigation to see okay, exactly what is the 13 principal threat waste at this site. 14 plan there. At what line do we draw and consolidate 14 And there was also a comment that Mr. Bell 15 this stuff. And they couldn't find any sludge in the 15 made that I want to correct and I don't understand 16 O'Connor disposal area. 16 where it came from. In terms of this being the most 17 So there's -- we've got to keep in mind, 17 toxic Superfund site in the country and I can tell you 18 there's three things -- there's four things happening 18 from my experience it is absolutely not that case. It 19 at the same time. Three land areas, which are all 19 is not the most toxic by a long shot. 20 considered under this operable unit number two, and 20 It is the first and only one to be re-listed 21 that is the plan that we currently have in front of us, 21 and that's where it's gotten after it's been de-listed 22 and then we have operable unit number three, which is 22 and then re-listed. That is the reason why it's 23 the groundwater, which just got really complicated all 23 notorious in terms of -- 24 of a sudden because of this 1,4-Dioxane. 24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: People live there. And 25 The groundwater was pretty simple up until 25 people live there. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 110 112 1 MS. DODGE: Right. I just wanted to address 1 would justify it becoming a Superfund site in those 2 that too, because we have worked on and currently are 2 deposits deposited by Ford Motor Company.” 3 working on sites that do have principal threat waste 3 So that information on the record, that's a 4 and do have much more severe actual conditions with 4 determination by a previous Borough attorney. -- to 5 respect to the site data. 5 take to the EPA and/or to the insurance companies to 6 MR. HECK: Thank you. Yes, please. 6 help them to fight it. 7 MS. CHIANG: My name is Lisa Chiang, C-H-I-A- 7 You yourself in 2011, August 16, 2011, were 8 N-G. 376 Skyline Lakes Drive. 8 counsel at this meeting where you addressed those 9 And so first, Mr. Speer, I wanted to respond 9 insurance coverages specifically. And what you said 10 to your comment that there are these three different 10 was that the Borough has insurance coverage for 11 areas at the site and you wonder why -- it's something 11 whatever are termed as party claims. You talk about 12 that you said even before, why is it that this is the 12 that a little bit. 13 one that people are concerned about, which are there 13 But you've also said the Borough is the 14 are such deep waste areas -- 14 current owner and title of the company, which is why 15 Is it not necessarily the case that people 15 under CERCLA law we are considered the responsible 16 don't want that waste removed as well. However it is 16 party. 17 the case that we can appeal to you and our Council at 17 But the fact that we're the owner is a -- 18 this point to change the decision about the O'Connor 18 that's a separate issue for the insurance companies. 19 site. There are different kinds of actions that need 19 That makes us responsible, but our actions do not. 20 to take place in order to address those other issues, 20 So in fact a lot of the contamination that is 21 because of the determination by the EPA. 21 being addressed by the EPA was done by Ford, a third 22 The EPA has kind of passed the buck back to 22 party. You're -- now that the property damage -- third 23 you on O'Connor. And so that gives us this forum. 23 party which is assertable interest that is covered 24 My other question then now, Ms. Monahan, in 24 under the insurance. It as though you have car 25 some of the things that you say that we've talked 25 insurance or sort like in that phrase property 111 113 1 about, the different insurances, the way that those are 1 insurance. 2 covered, I just want to take look back at some of the 2 So if that's the case and that's what we're 3 historical minutes from the past Borough meetings where 3 looking at, we have all this historical information and 4 those issues have been addressed before and look at how 4 now there's a little bit of a contradiction here, why 5 they're being addressed now and maybe just better 5 is that? 6 understand why that is. What's changed or why we're 6 Why are we not fighting harder to get that 7 not fighting harder, based on the past information that 7 money and use it to actually -- the site. It's, you 8 we have. 8 know, this ongoing problem -- to say it was -- once, 9 Okay. So, April 24th, 2007, former Borough 9 but the only way -- so we look at these. Things 10 attorney Joe Marriziti (phonetic) stated that: 10 happen, you know, we look at what's going to happen in 11 “County Road deserves a great debt of 11 the future. We can predict -- you know, it's unlikely 12 gratitude to the citizens of Ringwood for having 12 this is going to happen. Our case is unique. It's 13 relentlessly dug up those insurance policies that go 13 already unique. 14 back years that have given the Borough the opportunity 14 And so how can make those connections in 15 to go against the carriers for not only reimbursing for 15 light of -- care of the cost. 16 a significant portion, but for 100 percent of the legal 16 MR. HECK: Before you answer, I'm just going 17 fees and also for coverage that is the front line of 17 to say one thing is completely inaccurate by Mr. 18 defense fo the citizens of this Borough -- the $80/90 18 Marizitti. We did not have the insurance company 19 million with respect to -- insurance policies.” 19 paying for all of his bills. 20 I understand that sometimes people are having 20 As a matter of fact there was a lawsuit to 21 trouble getting those actually pay those off. 21 get recovery of his bills Mr. Clemack participated in 22 But his further comment was: 22 where the insurance companies did not pay for all of 23 “The single fact that is so clear and 23 it. There were a lot of things that were denied, there 24 important in this situation is that there is not one 24 were a lot of things. 25 ounce of material that was deposited at that site that 25 So that statement is not accurate, but I can ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 114 116 1 let Wanda answer the rest of them. 1 percentage is paint sludge and the rest of it is fill. 2 MS. MONAHAN: Relative to, you know, what I 2 We'll pay for the paint sludge, but like SR-6, we're 3 said about the insurance coverage and the property 3 going to turn the Borough and say that's your problem 4 damage, again, you know, we feel confident that 4 to take care of. 5 relative to the Ford paint sludge that there would be 5 And EPA again, at least in the SR-6 area, 6 insurance coverage for that. 6 sided with Ford and directed the Borough to pay for it 7 However, the insurance coverage isn't even 7 and the Borough did pay for it and the insurance 8 necessary, because Ford has taken care of paint sludge 8 companies refused. 9 where they found it. As I mentioned all the SR-16 9 And I'm not saying that will -- actually will 10 areas, Ford has really taken care of all the paint 10 happen here. As I said, you know, I'm here to advise 11 sludge. They've taken care of all the costs relative 11 the Borough in terms of, you know, what potential 12 to the investigation of the sight. They've also taken 12 liability exists here. 13 care of disposing of all the paint sludge that they 13 And again, in SR-6 we were talking about a 14 removed out of O'Connor, Peters and Cannon mine sites. 14 few hundred thousand dollars. I think the Borough paid 15 The issue that we have with O'Connor though 15 $130,000 to remove the material here. Here the cost 16 is that because the bulk of the paint sludge has 16 estimate for OCD is $32 million. 17 already been taken out, paid for by Ford, is that 17 And let me just say, if we were to say that 18 what's remaining is all mixed in with all this other 18 the Borough would be 20 percent responsible, and I've 19 solid waste. 19 heard that number talked about quite a pit at public 20 And as I mentioned earlier, as Scott 20 meetings, that $6.4 million. 21 mentioned, in the SR-6 area there was paint sludge that 21 MS. CHIANG: And the 80 to 90 million 22 was taken out and also the impacted fill material was 22 indemnification? 23 excavated out as well, because it has paint sludge 23 MS. MONAHAN: Well again that's assuming that 24 mixed in with it. 24 the insurance company would pay for it. And I'm not 25 And what did Ford do? They took the paint 25 suggesting, you know, that they absolutely wouldn't. 115 117 1 sludge and they disposed of it off site and they left 1 But if there's a fight with the insurance companies, is 2 the impacted material for the Borough to take or to 2 the Borough prepared to pay out of its pocket, you 3 dispose of. 3 know, the legal fees and the consulting fees to fight 4 And EPA -- let me just finish. The EPA 4 that fight with the insurance companies? That's just 5 required the Borough to take care of it and the Borough 5 another issue, another factor that the Council has had 6 did and the insurance company refused to pay for it. 6 to take into consideration. 7 So it's the, you know, sort of having a 7 MS. CHIANG: Considering the Council as a 8 foreshadowing. And so in the O'Connor Disposal Area, 8 whole I would say, as a resident of the town, I think 9 you're talking about a much larger area. You're also 9 that my health and safety and the health and safety of 10 talking about exponential, you know, difference in cost 10 my family is more important than the cost of the 11 relative to what we saw in SR-6. Imagine what we've 11 cleanup. 12 got at the O'Connor disposal area with the $32 million 12 (Audience applauding) 13 cost. 13 MS. MONAHAN: I'm totally fine with that. 14 And as Lawra talked about earlier, the 14 MR. WUNSCH: David Wunsch, W-U-N-S-C-H, 16 15 majority of the material that's in O'Connor is either 15 Dewey, D-E-W-E-Y, Drive in the Borough of Ringwood. 16 fill material or mine tailings. A small portion of it 16 I find the choice of building a recycling 17 is the remnants of the paint sludge. 17 center on this site very intriguing, because you were 18 MS. CHIANG: But the remnants of the paint 18 talking about the zoning, you could build parks there, 19 sludge are so intermingled that we would have to remove 19 you could build recreational complexes, you could build 20 the waste with it. Wouldn't that then still be a way 20 schools, you could build that and you're building this 21 that it can be removed? -- that waste -- 21 recreation (sic) center with fences around, this 22 MS. MONAHAN: It can be, it can be, but what 22 concrete slab that's going to protect everybody and it 23 Ford would do is they would say, okay, of all the 23 just reeks of something. 24 commingled material that we've taken out that includes 24 You don't want to build something that the 25 paint sludge and fill, they could very easily say X 25 public can go there, because you're not sure what the ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 118 120 1 long term health ramifications are. I can tell you 1 right the first time, okay? And let's get this town 2 these people know. Okay? They know what's going to go 2 back to -- you know what, this is the 69th safest town 3 in that ground and they know why they were getting 3 in the world, no one wants to come here. 4 sick. Okay? 4 When I moved in 2000 and we were rated by New 5 Mr. Heck, you have had a dream of building a 5 Jersey Monthly as one of the top 50 communities in New 6 community center. I applaud you for that, okay? Now 6 Jersey, okay? I wonder where we are now. Thank you. 7 if you really wanted a community center, you would want 7 MS. DODGE: There's actually a reason why -- 8 to put it on that spot. But you know deep down, and 8 because the surface of this area, the yellow indicates 9 this is a rhetorical question, I'm not going to ask 9 the area where the fill would be moved out from. That 10 this, in your conscience, that you don't want to build 10 would be restored as wetlands buffer. 11 something that kids are going to run on, okay? And 11 This slope, as you can see here, is something 12 families are going to go to, because you're sure what's 12 that would be vegetated and there would be possibly 13 going to happen. Okay? 13 retaining walls around the bottom of it. 14 And that's why you chose a recycling center. 14 The surface up in here is a flat surface that 15 Because you go in, you drop your cans, you go out, you 15 would need to be re-utilized. It's not an appropriate 16 drop your newspaper, you go out. You're in and out, 16 configuration for something that would be -- going down 17 really quickly. No one hangs out at a recycling 17 to there and to go over the edge of, etcetera, 18 center. 18 etcetera. 19 And no one comes to a town saying I want to 19 When it comes to protectiveness, I'll repeat 20 live in Ringwood, because they've got a great recycling 20 this because I think it's very important. EPA has 21 center. No one does that, okay? They don't. 21 stated unequivocally in the ROD that capping this site 22 (Audience applause) 22 is equally as protective of human health and the 23 MR. WUNSCH: It's very simple, you're not 23 environment as removal. They have ranked them the 24 sure what's going to happen with this, okay? And 24 same. The only concern they have was ensuring that the 25 that's why you chose a recycling center. Clean it up 25 integrity of the cap is maintained. 119 121 1 the right way. Okay? 1 So if you were to make it a community center, 2 I ask you all this, okay. If we the town 2 it would be harder to ensure that integrity, but it 3 members decided to build you all houses on that site, 3 would not be less protective. The use could be for 4 would you all live there? No. I'll pass the can 4 anything that the Borough would want to put there. It 5 around, we'll build you houses there and you wouldn't 5 could be a -- 6 live there, okay? 6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Why can't we get a new 7 So the thing is, it's got to be cleaned up 7 football field? 8 the right way. You don't want to sweep it under the 8 MR. HECK: Again, Lawra, Lawra -- 9 carpet. 9 MS. DODGE: It's not the appropriate 10 Lawra, I tell you what, empirical data, 10 configuration or size for something like that. We 11 that's what you're all about, okay? Empirical data. 11 didn't look at those kinds of things. It made more 12 You want some empirical data? The richest one percent 12 sense to do something that would enable the top surface 13 of this country, and they talk about something that 13 above the soil cap to be covered with an asphalt cover 14 rolls downhill, okay, I won't say it here, it's a 14 that wouldn't be part of the cap, it would be a 15 public meeting. 15 protected layer and that the Borough would then occupy 16 Okay, the richest one percent of this 16 it so that they could keep the security of it so that 17 country, empirical data basically goes against the 17 people wouldn't go roaming around on the cap. 18 poorest here and they never act in the greatest 18 Not because the cap is not going to be safe 19 interest and the government does the same thing. 19 for direct contact, it will be. It will be covered 20 And you know, you're doing your best, I 20 with soil and then vegetated again. So it could be. 21 understand. Mr. Speer, you're coming up with some 21 And uses like this all over the State of New 22 great points, but you've got to do better, okay? We 22 Jersey occur. Ball fields are created. This is not 23 deserve it, okay? Our townspeople deserve it. 23 the kind of location you want to put a ball field and 24 (Audience applause) 24 then have the ball go running down the slope and have 25 MR. WUNSCH: I urge you, just clean it up 25 kids go chasing after it. It doesn't make any sense to ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 122 124 1 do that, but it not because of protectiveness. 1 insurance company has no problem paying for experts to 2 And that's really important because I 2 have -- this is probably my third or fourth meeting 3 understand your comment and this is based on empirical 3 that you guys have run. There may have been more. I 4 data. It's based on demonstrated protective remedies 4 get confused with the CAG mixing up. 5 that are selected by the experts who are involved in 5 But it's interesting that we paid all this 6 the process. Not by Ford, not specifically by the 6 money for your guys to keep trying to tell the public 7 Borough, but by our collective experts recommending, 7 why we shouldn't clean it up and the insurance isn't 8 ranking of this protectiveness and then EPA is 8 going to pay for us to clean it up. So it's a conflict 9 selecting whether it's protective or not. And EPA 9 to me. 10 ruled and decided that it was equally as protective as 10 The comment about the Council not having a 11 removal. 11 place on the CAG, and I said before but I'll see it 12 So that's the reason why. And I wanted to 12 again, the Mayor and Councilwoman have a spot on CAG 13 address it because I know it's hard from these stupid 13 and Pat Seffee (phonetic) sends around an agenda and a 14 figures to visualize this. And this is why you have to 14 note before every CAG meeting asking the CAG members 15 try to put yourself in the position of thinking about 15 what we would like to add to our agenda. 16 what this would look like and how small of a surface 16 You have always had an opportunity to add any 17 area you are really talking about, once this is all -- 17 experts you want, to have any information you want and 18 this is all slopes down. But this would all be 18 yet tonight there's a lot of talking about EPA not 19 wetlands. All right. 19 doing this and not doing this and not doing this, so I 20 And it would not just be -- and it would be 20 find it very interesting that we're doing that when 21 flat, so you wouldn't have the runoff concerns that we 21 half a dozen or so crop of EPA people aren't here to 22 had before with respect to leaving it as it was a 22 answer you, when you never ask those questions when 23 crevasse and then having that -- on it and then having 23 you're in a CAG meeting and you sit as a member of CAG. 24 all the runoff from Peters Mine Road go right down that 24 We have a whole room full of EPA people, but 25 crevasse out to the Park Brook. 25 we never hear from you. So, you know, did they side 123 125 1 I think you can envision how that would be a 1 with Ford? I don't know, I've never heard that 2 concern. Thank you. 2 mentioned before. 3 MS. CANETTI: Robin Canetti. Robin with an 3 I do find it really a miracle that according 4 I, C-A-N-E-T-T-I, 310 Lakeview Avenue. 4 to Ms. Dodge's presentation there's so little left at 5 Not for nothing, but you guys have had about 5 O'Connor. I' m not even sure why we're a Superfund 6 two hours and we started with 100 and some odd people 6 anymore, because it seems as though I've been wasting 7 and we've had about 20 minutes. So there's been a lot 7 the last six years going to CAG meetings when it's 8 of sludge coming downhill tonight, so I am not quite 8 gone. It's wonderful. Hallelujah. 9 sure where to start. 9 And we talk about the topography, how 10 I have a follow-up question for Mr. Wunsch. 10 difficult it would be to clean it and the topography 11 And I've said this before. I don't need you guys to 11 and the composition of the soil. Well, EPA knew all of 12 live there, but if this was in Briskin (phonetic) Lakes 12 that. EPA knows all of that, but their original 13 or Capsaw (phonetic) or Skyline, you would clean it up 13 recommendation, before you came up with the recycling 14 and fight with the insurance company later. You 14 center, was to remove it and excavate it. That's not a 15 wouldn't even think about. You're going to clean up 15 mystery to them. 16 the Borough all -- 16 (Audience applause) 17 (Audience applause) 17 MS. CANETTI: They know every inch of that 18 MS. CANETTI: You'll get a bond for it and 18 site. They know exactly what that site looks like and 19 you're not going to think about it. But because of 19 yet that was their first recommendation. And the only 20 where it is, we're worrying about it. And in truth, if 20 thing that derailed that was the proposal for a 21 the lawyer can't get the insurance company to pay, we 21 recycling center that nobody else seems to want except 22 need a different lawyer because -- 22 you guys. 23 (Audience applause) 23 So when -- 24 MS. CANETTI: -- that's why you pay for 24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That wasn't the first 25 insurance. And I find it very interesting that the 25 recommendation. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 126 128 1 MS. CANETTI: Pardon? 1 billion in profits and get it out. Thank you. 2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: That wasn't the first 2 (Audience applause) 3 recommendation. 3 MS. CANETTI: Someone said that to get it all 4 MS. CANETTI: That was the first 4 out would cause a delay, would possibly change the 5 recommendation. 5 whole -- of the effort and they may have a problem 6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, the first 6 going into -- and also -- what happens, do we have to 7 recommendation was to cap it. And then they -- 7 worry about sinkholes? That's a concern. So we don't 8 (Several people speaking at the same time) 8 think it's just money. That's a big concern, but it's 9 MS. CANETTI: Not O'Connor. Not O'Connor. 9 not a laughing matter. 10 O'Connor was a full remediation. And I don't know 10 MS. DODGE: No. Yeah, the question that the 11 about the six inches of sludge, the sluice things, 11 Councilwoman asked me was whether or not there would be 12 because Walter Mugdan said to our face, for anybody who 12 concern over the in training that the mine tailings, 13 doesn't know that's the Director of EPA Region 2, he 13 that powdery -- and that is a concern. 14 said originally the plan was to restore it to its 14 That's one of the things that we need to look 15 natural state so that the people who lived in that area 15 at and I think it's something that will still be looked 16 could hunt there. 16 at. Because again you're destabilizing an area that is 17 They would have really crappy hunting if all 17 currently under existing conditions is stable. 18 that was left was six inches of topsoil. So I'm pretty 18 I also wanted to -- the last comment was -- 19 sure that was not his plan. Or maybe it would be 19 there was one statement that you made that I just want 20 really good hunting, because you'd have a hard time 20 to correct. I didn't say it was all gone. I said that 21 missing the game. 21 2,200 tons of paint sludge was removed from O'Connor 22 And as for the R40-B zoning that the Planning 22 during that, you know, slicing of the whole area after 23 Board had absolutely no problem with, well, they don't 23 doing test pits and borings. 24 live there. Did anyone notify the residents that you 24 Every single one of those test pits, which I 25 were going to consider changing the zone and why did 25 was personally able to inspect, there was no physical 127 129 1 you go to the Planning Board, not the Zoning Board, if 1 evidence remaining. 2 you're going to change a residential zone to an 2 So I did not say it's 100 percent gone, I 3 entirely different use? I think the use variances 3 said that if any is remaining of paint sludge itself, 4 would be going to the Zoning Board not the Planning 4 it would be in small pieces and it would be very 5 Board. 5 difficult, if not impossible, to separate. And as a 6 Ms. Monahan said that you'd have a hard time 6 matter of fact -- 7 getting money from the insurance company if you 7 MS. CANETTI: That's why they wanted to dig 8 voluntarily agreed to clean up just out of the goodness 8 it out, not -- 9 of your heart and because it's the best thing for the 9 MS. DODGE: No, but you have to remember it 10 people, but if you didn't put a dump there that EPA 10 occurs in pockets, it's not across the whole area and 11 would put that in their recommendation and then you 11 that was the point I was trying to make before that 12 wouldn't have been doing it voluntarily, they would 12 over 100,000 yards of what's in there is mine tailings. 13 have been dragging and kicking and screaming and then 13 It's not this paint sludge like it's a whole huge 14 you could have gone to the insurance company and gotten 14 deposit at this time. 15 us reimbursed for the cleanup because the EPA would 15 MS. CANETTI: I understood all of that. But 16 tell you to do it. 16 again, so does the EPA and that was still their 17 And $7.4 billion. I'll say that again, $7.4 17 recommendation. 18 billion was Ford's profits last year. So when it's all 18 MS. DODGE: It was their recommendation, but 19 over and done with, I still find it unbelievably 19 they also equally rated consolidating and capping it as 20 difficult to fathom EPA putting a burden on our Borough 20 equally protective for the reasons that I stated, which 21 of 1285 people -- 21 is that there isn't a lot to remove to begin with and 22 MR. HECK: 12,335. 22 it is not impacting groundwater quality or surface 23 MS. CANETTI: 12,335 residents versus a $7.4 23 water quality. 24 billion corporation. I say we should get it done, get 24 And so that's -- I just wanted to correct the 25 the money while we know they still are making $7.4 25 record, that's all. Yeah, go ahead. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 130 132 1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- tons of toxic sludge 1 health catastrophe. And it leaked before they 2 there. 2 predicted it would. You know, it's life span, which by 3 MS. DODGE: Excuse me? 3 the way, if we cap this site, life span is 30 years. 4 MAYOR SPEER: No, no. 4 So again we're using this insurance money to 5 MS. DODGE: I'm sorry. 5 pay for things like this. In 30 years, my kid will be 6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You're leaving 150,000 tons 6 38, he'll be standing where I am and we'll be doing 7 of toxic sludge. 7 this all over again like Groundhog Day, which it feels 8 MR. FERRETTI: My name is Robert Ferretti, 8 like every meeting, by the way. Although I must say 9 F-E-R-R-E-T-T-I. I live at 26 Longview Lane. Good 9 the last three meetings -- the last three meetings the 10 evening. 10 crowd has grown. 11 Yes, I live in town. I love this town and I 11 Every meeting -- I'm going to get back to 12 love the people who live here. That's why I'm here, 12 what I want to say, because I know it's three minutes. 13 because I care. 13 If the Borough is given the opportunity to 14 I believe everybody in this room cares too. 14 have the pollutants removed by the Board and we do not 15 My issue is not with the people in this room, it's with 15 take that opportunity, we may be held liable down the 16 the decisions that may have been made and have been 16 road when we're shown to be hosting pollutants that are 17 made and may be made in the future. 17 getting into the drinking water for most of the State. 18 And the Borough Council and Mayor should be 18 The EPA originally recommended removal of 19 making decisions, as was stated, based on the welfare 19 this toxic waste and is only changing that decision 20 of the community. That has, however, come into 20 because of decisions that you Town Council made without 21 question. And I believe that's why this room was 21 taking into consideration the people of this 22 filled at 8:00 for sure and still has people standing. 22 community's welfare as the number one priority. 23 I haven't seen the other room and I can't see the 23 Because clearly in a residential zone there should not 24 people who are watching online regarding interest in 24 be dumping of toxic waste. 25 this subject. 25 (Timer going off) 131 133 1 I've seen one Facebook post alone get 1200 1 MR. FERRETTI: Can I just finish what I 2 views and more. And that's not a sponsored post by the 2 wrote, because I get emotional about this, that's why I 3 way. 3 wrote it down. 4 So one small sample of the way I question 4 It's at best a 30 year solution, at which 5 decisions being made, not so small is, that we know 5 point something will need to be done again. The cap at 6 there's 1,4-Dioxane and other pollutants in the surface 6 O'Connor is unusually large and is therefore expected 7 water in this area of the Superfund site, yet we still 7 to -- and its effectiveness is far less certain than 8 use stream water. I don't know, is that Clark Stream 8 the removal. The cost will be passed down to our 9 called Clark Stream, because comes right by our 9 children for the cap to be put into place. 10 property, where our kids play. 10 Toxic dumping happens, it happens in 11 The sign says “stream water used”. Not toxic 11 residential neighborhoods. The idea that this Borough 12 stream water. It doesn't say “caution, runoff from 12 would choose to change the zoning or intended use of 13 Superfund site, used for irrigation of children's 13 the site so the pollution does not have to be removed 14 ballfield” or anything of that nature. It says “stream 14 is completely unacceptable in my opinion. 15 water used”. 15 (Audience applause) 16 That stream water, by the way, in my opinion 16 MR. FERRETTI: With a stroke of a pen, this 17 is not okay to be sprayed on a ballfield or a 17 Mayor and Council can be working with this community, 18 playground at all. That's it. 18 which is what we want to do. We want to be working 19 I attended Ramapo College and I graduated 19 with you not against you in any way. 20 with a degree with in environmental space. I 20 In keeping O'Connor residential and enabling 21 understand very well how much less protective the cap 21 the EPA to force Ford to remove the pollution, as was 22 is over toxic waste rather than removing it. 22 originally proposed, Mayor and Council members, we ask 23 The Love Canal, for example, only capped less 23 you to do this today. We want you to write down that 24 than 9,000 tons. Only less 9,000 tons, right, of 24 you agree we should keep it residential and remove the 25 sludge and it leaked causing an environmental and 25 toxic waste for the welfare of our community. Please. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 134 136 1 (Audience applause) 1 that soft sludge. My sister's dead, you know, along 2 MS. MILLIGAN: Vivian Milligan, Vivian, 2 with a lot of other people. 3 V-I-V-I-A-N M-I-L-L-I-G-A-N, 31 Peters Mine Road. 3 So I know for a fact that stuff was very, 4 I don't have questions. I just have some 4 very bad. And I'm going to agree with you on one 5 comments to add on to what I've been listening about. 5 thing, DEP is getting off a little bit too easy here. 6 One of the first things I want to ask, this 6 They own Peters mine, the State owns that. It's time 7 Borough was incorporated in 1918, am I right. Can any 7 for them to step up and start, you know, getting some 8 of you tell us any mystery from 1918 to present day 8 responsibility around here, you know. 9 about the mining industry and everything that happened 9 (Audience applause) 10 at Ringwood? Do you have these records here, do you 10 MS. MILLIGAN: -- whatever, the DEP. They 11 have the history of the town? 11 just always sit back and that is State property. I 12 MR. HECK: There's historical data here, yes. 12 have to sit there and walk the -- instead around the 13 MS. MILLIGAN: Okay. So is it open to the 13 corner, because that's State property, so they can do 14 public? 14 that, you know, they're this close. 15 MR. HECK: Sure. 15 And I'm not going to say too much except for 16 MS. MILLIGAN: Okay. Next thing -- 16 I know Scott makes -- made a little bit of comment 17 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I think it's even at the 17 about the lawsuit. 18 library. 18 I do want to say this, there are plenty of 19 MS. MILLIGAN: Excuse me? 19 things about the lawsuit that aren't going to be said 20 MR. HECK: It's also at the library. 20 here that plenty of people don't know, so eventually if 21 MS. MILLIGAN: Old towns usually have, so 21 I get my presentation together, am I going to have the 22 that's why -- 22 opportunity to stand up with my presentation? 23 And the mining started in 1773. And I asked, 23 MR. HECK: Unfortunately I can't talk about 24 I have brought this up to the Borough, but I think DEP 24 the lawsuit, because there's a confidentiality -- 25 is the culprit, I'm not going to stand in their defense 25 MS. MILLIGAN: I didn't say lawsuit. I 135 137 1 either, to mark where we know where there's pits which 1 didn't say lawsuit. I just had a massive house fire on 2 have been totally -- a totally ignored question, a 2 my property. Unfortunately, the Borough didn't lay the 3 suggestion that I made before. 3 piping right, so we don't get water up there in the 4 You know, she's concerned about the pits, but 4 fire hydrants. I got -- you know my documents, I have 5 we know where most of the pits are. People come -- the 5 a lot of documents. 6 State park, you know, we could show them where some of 6 And I know, you now, I don't want to go 7 them are so they don't have to end up driving over 7 through too many details right now, but this is very 8 them. 8 devastating for me and I feel -- I can't get over the 9 And I also want to say, I got pride, but it 9 fact that the bombing and the explosions and wondering 10 ain't pride about being stupid. Back when they were 10 what the hell happened. I thought two planes had 11 doing that dumping in the '60's, there was some good 11 collided and I never, you know, prior to that, Marcie 12 furs and stuff that came from this fill, the landfills, 12 had the same type of fire in her yard. 13 that was some good stuff brought there. And they 13 It is kind of suspicious and which I 14 watched, they were bringing the --. Ford didn't dump 14 appreciate the fact that they sent for the prosecutors, 15 appliances, they didn't dump clothing, there's plenty 15 you know, arson squad and whatever. It just didn't 16 to see. 16 seem too right, I mean. 17 And the soft sludge, you said that there's 17 And the ballfield, when you're talking about 18 three sludges. Soft sludge which was found at O'Connor 18 kids playing ball down by Peters mine. If you know a 19 landfill was so deadly that it could not be taken 19 lot about the history, in 1924, the ballfield was up in 20 nowhere in the United States, it had to go to Canada. 20 Peters mine, right there, right in the sludge there. 21 If you want, I'll bring you some samples and 21 Everything was held up there, the fairs, the ball 22 show you the difference. I'll bring all three in. 22 games, that was the ballfield of the Town of Ringwood 23 Because I remember at that time, it happened in July, 23 where everything was held. 24 we found out it was in October or November. Lo and 24 So that's no stranger for being a ballpark. 25 behold my sister had a stroke in July when we uncovered 25 You know, they've done that for years. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 138 140 1 I don't want to take up too many people's 1 cap is then utilized by the Borough as the property 2 times here, I just wanted to -- oh, and I wanted to, 2 owner and as the responsible entity, they would then be 3 correct me, because I've been doing this since 2005, 3 manning the facility and then would have the obligation 4 I've been battling this. This is really the first 4 to be doing those inspections on a regular basis. 5 night that I've heard it said that the taxpayers are 5 They would be inspecting the asphalt surface 6 picking up the tab here. This is something that, you 6 that actually is on top of the underlying soil cap 7 know, this is the first night that I have heard 7 which would then be further protected from any 8 confirmation on the fact. 8 breaching. 9 I'm a taxpayer. I'm paying for a house 9 MS. HESS: So what happens if it does fail, 10 that's ain't worth shit, you know what I'm saying, 10 whose responsibility? If it's Ringwood's then we have 11 because it's lost its value. Most people assume we 11 to pay for that again. 12 don't pay taxes. But I just to commend you on it for 12 MS. DODGE: Well, no. At the end of the day 13 finally coming forward, you know. And I just say God 13 the dollars would be allocated for the long term 14 bless us all and yours. I'm done for the night. 14 maintenance and that's part of the remedy. There's an 15 (Audience applause) 15 allocation of cost in the cost estimate. 16 MS. HESS: My name is Lisa Hess, I live at 21 16 It's a very, very good question, I'm glad you 17 Joseph Lane. Hess, H-E-S-S-. 17 brought it up, because this is something that's 18 I have a couple of quick questions. So if we 18 misunderstood as to how this process is implemented. 19 put a cap on the site and like Rob said we're here, the 19 And then there is a reporting obligation. 20 cap's life span is 30 years maximum, and the cap fails 20 So at the end of the day the site will 21 underneath the recycling center. Whose responsibility 21 ultimately not be a Superfund site anymore. There will 22 is it then to remove the recycling center and to fix 22 be the long term maintenance requirement that will be 23 the cap or to then remediate the site which should have 23 maintained in perpetuity. That would go to DEP, 24 been done in the first place? 24 initially to both EPA and DEP, and then ultimately to 25 MS. DODGE: Okay, I'd like to address the 25 DEP. And that's a reporting obligation for any 139 141 1 comment. First off, the 30 year life expectancy of a 1 engineered cap in the State of New Jersey. 2 cap is not related to its effectiveness. It's related 2 MS. HESS: What happens if there is a problem 3 to standard monitoring periods under CERCLA. 3 with that -- 4 The cap will be maintained, it will be 4 MS. MONAHAN: Let me just add some of the 5 inspected and maintained, repaired on a regular basis 5 response to answer your question. 6 for in perpetuity. There's no end. 6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Covering up or removing, 7 MS. HESS: There's only one inspector for the 7 being equally protective. You can cover something up 8 whole State from what I understand. 8 or you can remove it. So in 30 years it's exposed 9 MS. DODGE: I'm sorry? 9 again or it's gone, it's still gone in 30 years. 10 MS. HESS: There's only supposed to be one 10 (Several persons talking at the same time) 11 inspector -- 11 MS. HESS: I just have one thing before Wanda 12 MS. DODGE: No, no, no, no. I'm not sure 12 talks. I did some research. There's a company in 13 what you're talking about with respect to specific 13 California called G. Fredly (phonetic) and 14 sites that there's a private decision made on with 14 Associations, they specialize in remediation and caps, 15 respect to individual locations. It's done by whoever 15 okay? 16 the responsible party is deemed to be. 16 They wrote: 17 In this case it would be worked out for long 17 “While in place capping is one of the least 18 term between the parties. So this is something that 18 expensive short term approaches for hazardous chemicals 19 would still be negotiated between the parties to 19 site remediation. It carries potential significant 20 determine which entity is going to be doing that. But 20 long term issues which should and must be addressed for 21 it will be done. It's a part of the regulatory 21 proper remediation. Those familiar to long term 22 process. 22 properties or CRA landfill covers know at best they 23 So the inspection, repair is done oon a 23 provide a temporary impediment to moisture and -- 24 regular basis. That's one of the reasons why in EPA's 24 area.” 25 decision, the record of decision, they said that if the 25 MS. DODGE: I think what you're talking about ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 142 144 1 is a specific type of material used as a cap and that 1 requirements. 2 doesn't apply here. Here it's called an engineer cap, 2 Number one, the parties who are responsible 3 which means that the underlying materials are 3 for the remediation, if the remediation is capping and 4 consolidated, compacted in a very specific manner. And 4 long term monitoring, those same responsible parties 5 on top of that is a lining that's placed and then on 5 are responsible for that long term monitoring. And so 6 top of that is two feet, so we're talking about a 6 it would be Ford and likely it would be the Borough. 7 thickness of approximately that of clean soil. 7 There would be a requirement to post a 8 All right? And then on top of that it's 8 financial assurance for again this arbitrary 30 year 9 vegetated to stabilize it on the side slopes. There 9 period to post the money of what it would cost to do 10 would be retaining walls incorporated and depending 10 the future of operations, maintenance and monitoring of 11 upon the engineering requirement. And then on the flat 11 that cap. 12 surface, on top, under the scenario that was proposed 12 Now under NJDEP regulations, you have 13 and obviously was selected, there would be an asphalt 13 responsibility to inspect that cap every year and every 14 surface on top of that two feet of clean soil. And 14 other year you have to provide a certification by a 15 then the facility would be operated, secured and fenced 15 licensed site remediation professional saying they've 16 and then maintained and inspected. 16 maintained the cap, they've fixed whatever cracks or, 17 Now what happens in the actual fact, 17 you know, whatever breaches or whatever else, and that 18 especially in the situation we have here where you have 18 it's still fully protective. 19 the wetlands at the base of it and you have a lot of 19 In addition to that, because this is a 20 vegetation, is that that vegetation takes hold of those 20 Superfund site, under CERCLA there are five year CERCLA 21 soils and helps it to be stabilized. 21 annual five year reviews for all the remedies that are 22 Which is why, under the other scenario, when 22 implemented. 23 we envision this crevasse that's created and exposing 23 So on top of the every year inspection, every 24 the mine tailings below, and then six inches of soil, 24 other year certification, every five years the remedies 25 not two feet and not -- 25 of the site, not just of O'Connor, but at Peters and at 143 145 1 (Both talking at same time) 1 Cannon also, have to be inspected and certified that 2 MS. HESS: -- this two feet, which would be -- 2 they're still protective or if they're not, measures 3 as you said, the roots would take hold and it would be 3 will be taken to correct and make them protective. 4 a much stronger -- 4 And if there is a remedy failure, the same 5 MS. MONAHAN: Let me try to -- 5 responsible parties, which would be Ford and again 6 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Is that part of the law? 6 potentially the Borough, would still be responsible for 7 MS. MONAHAN: Well, I'm just trying to 7 any remedy going forward. 8 address several questions. I want to make sure our 8 MS. HESS: All right. So my other question is 9 answer is complete. 9 that if Ford is willing to take responsibility for 10 As Lawra talked about, this 30 years, okay, 10 that, why didn't they take responsibility -- 11 is an arbitrary number of years or period that both 11 MS. MONAHAN: No one, and honestly, this -- 12 NJDEP and the EPA use when they talk about long term 12 (Audience applause) 13 requirements. They're not saying 30 years and you're 13 MS. MONAHAN: There's been a presumption that 14 done. And people have misconstrued the use of that 30 14 if EPA, if excavation was the remedy, Ford would just 15 year period by the agencies as a life expectancy -- 15 say okay. And I had advised the Mayor and Council here 16 (Both talking at same time) 16 that I think there's a possibility that Ford would say 17 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- 17 no, we're not doing excavation, because we believe that 18 MS. MONAHAN: -- as to effectiveness. 18 capping is fully protective. 19 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- that have failed 19 And if they refused, EPA would be forced to 20 quickly. 20 bring what's called an enforcement action again Ford, 21 MS. MONAHAN: Well, and you know what, I'm 21 the responsible party, and likely the Borough, because 22 sure that there are, but there any many, many more caps 22 we're not signing saying we're doing it either. And 23 that lived out, you know, very successfully. 23 then the battle would be, you know, fought out in court 24 But a couple of things I want to add to, you 24 taking who knows how long and how much money to finally 25 know you're being fully informed about the 25 get to a resolution. ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 146 148 1 And that resolution could very well be a 1 and saying it's 400 acres, it should really be three 2 Court deciding that capping is a protective remedy. 2 land areas. And EPA said no. 3 I'm not saying that's what a court -- but you know, 3 Now, you now, is it worth going back to EPA 4 these are all possibilities, you know, that we have to 4 again? Yes. And we've started those discussions. So 5 think about. 5 it's not as though the Borough sitting back and just 6 MS. HESS: Okay. So is there anyway that we 6 saying oh well, we ask this is and now, you know, we're 7 can get some kind of information? Same thing with the 7 just -- 8 insurance companies, why can't we speak to a 8 MS. HESS: -- this 1,4-Dioxane -- 9 representative and say okay, if I have this issue, what 9 MS. MONAHAN: Yes. 10 do you guys cover? They say okay, we cover it, okay, 10 MS. HESS; -- all this -- there's a lot of 11 thanks, great. We're done. 11 new information, so we should be able to go back to EPA 12 So why shouldn't we speak to a representative 12 and say yes, the record of decision said this, it's 13 in the same fashion? Obviously it's a larger scale. 13 their decision, so we should be able to reopen the ROD, 14 MS. MONAHAN: We've had those discussions 14 can’t we? 15 with the insurance carriers and what has happened in 15 MR. HECK: Well, I can't answer that. Wanda 16 those discussions is that we have had already past 16 can answer that. But I will tell you one of the 17 incidents with the insurance companies relative to 17 recommendations -- Wanda is an environmental attorney. 18 coverage items relative to some of the legal defense 18 One of the recommendations that I'm going to make to 19 costs that Scott talked about earlier, that preceded my 19 the Council is that we should get coverage attorney, 20 involvement in this site, where the insurance companies 20 because exactly what she's telling you, when we went to 21 refused to pay. 21 the EPA, the former attorney went to the EPA with the 22 We've had the incident SR-6, the materials 22 exact same request and was denied as well. 23 left behind by Ford, the insurance companies refused to 23 So the insurance companies aren't sitting by 24 pay. 24 really wiling to give us a listen. We have two 25 So, you know, we have some indication as to 25 different attorneys for the insurance carriers. We 147 149 1 what position the insurance company will take. Now 1 meet with them regularly to try and work these 2 again, if the Borough of Ringwood were to decide to 2 situations out, but it's going to be my recommendation 3 fight the insurance companies in court, you know, we 3 to have the Council to get a special insurance coverage 4 may win that battle, right? But there's no guarantee. 4 counsel to look at this while we're making the 5 And I guess that's really the main point here is that 5 decisions on what's before us at this particular 6 there's no guarantee. 6 junction. 7 Somebody talked earlier about, you know, 7 The other thing that you have to keep in mind 8 well, you know, make Ford take all responsibility. 8 is you heard a lot of things this evening, what some of 9 Okay? Well, right now EPA has not done that. EPA has 9 the professionals were telling you was why in 2013 the 10 said Ford is responsible and the Borough is 10 Council made the decision that they made. We wanted to 11 responsible. 11 explain to you why they made that decision. 12 MS. HESS: The Borough should -- it is in our 12 And this is an evolving thing and it changes 13 best interests -- 13 as things changes. The Council has reserved the right 14 (Several people talking at same time) 14 to say hey, listen, let's revisit this. I'll talk 15 MS. MONAHAN: They had -- 15 about that when we get done, but you can answer the 16 MS. HESS: -- billion of dollars -- 16 rest of that question. 17 MS. MONAHAN: And as I've said in my opening 17 MS. HESS: The huge thing is you need clarify 18 comments, we made two requests to the EPA. One was 18 what exactly was covered. That's huge. You can say it 19 that we shouldn't have responsibility, we should 19 might be, it might not be, but this is a lot of -- it's 20 qualify for this exemption under CERCLA that I read, 20 a huge endeavor and -- 21 because the Borough acquired the OCDA property, you 21 MS. MONAHAN: Well, yeah. Part of the 22 know, by a the tax court here. But in that law, the 22 problem though relative to going to the insurance 23 EPA said no. 23 companies and trying to get a preview of what would be 24 As I said, we asked the EPA to help the 24 covered and what would not be covered, it would be -- 25 residents by redefining what's now the Superfund site 25 it's not as simple as going to an insurance company ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 150 152 1 where you've got car insurance to say if I got into an 1 make sure the data sets are correct. We want to make 2 accident and somebody hit me, would you cover that. 2 sure that this is -- we didn't know that before, this 3 That's easy for the insurance company to say, yes. 3 is new evidence. 4 We have a situation here in the O'Connor 4 And again, what I said to you before was, the 5 disposal area where right now the selective remedy is 5 Council felt like they wanted to tell you and go over 6 capping. Okay? And so we haven't gone through the 6 again why they made the decisions that they made. And 7 process yet and we don't know if it will happen. 7 all of this discussion is exactly what led us up to 8 So when you go to the insurance company to 8 where we were. 9 say well this might happen and then we also don't know 9 As evidence, and I said it twice, Wanda said 10 what position Ford is going to take. Whether they're 10 it, I think the Mayor said it earlier, as more 11 just going to step up and do the excavation or if 11 information has become available, obviously, they're 12 they're going to sue the Borough or if they select to 12 going to look at things, they're going to revisit 13 do the excavation, are they going to sue the Borough 13 things, they're going to take input, they're going to 14 for contribution, you know, for the fill material, the 14 do all of these things before they go forward. 15 non-paint sludge. 15 Counsel instructed me to hold the check to 16 So to go to an insurance company with all of 16 send, not get any of the permits for the recycling 17 these if this was this and this, they are not going to 17 center, they told me to hold it. I have it sitting 18 provide us with any sort of, forget about a preview, 18 right here and I did that because this is what they 19 absolutely not certainty. The only certain answer I 19 instructed me to do. 20 think we're going to get is, you know, at the moment, 20 So obviously they have some concerns, things 21 you know, we're not inclined to cover it. 21 they want to answer, things that they want to talk 22 So you know, look, on behalf of the Borough, 22 about. They wanted to have this meeting. They felt 23 right, as a legal defense lawyer here, my job is to 23 like there's a lot of misinformation out there and they 24 protect the liability of the Borough. And if I had any 24 felt that the public has the right to know why we made 25 legally enforceable document by either the EPA, Ford or 25 the decisions we made as a group. 151 153 1 the insurance companies that would guarantee with 1 And like it or not, these are the decisions, 2 certainty the cost and the liability of this Borough 2 but that does not necessarily mean that they're not 3 for this excavation remedy, I think that would be a 3 going to re-look at everything and check at every 4 huge factor for this Council to reconsider. 4 point. 5 But we don't have that and I'm not saying the 5 So I think that answered your question. 6 sky is falling, but I am saying with that uncertainty, 6 MS. MURPHY: My name is Sue Ellen Murphy. I 7 as a lawyer, how can I have the Council members, you 7 live at 54 Snake Den Road. 8 know, vote on something that's not certain, that leaves 8 So I would like to bring you a little bit 9 them vulnerable to risk and liability in the future? I 9 beyond what was discussed here. There is a deeper 10 haven't done my job then. 10 meaning and a reason for it. And it might not resonate 11 MS. HESS: So what are the steps then to kind 11 with some, it might a little later I hope. 12 of get some of the answers? You know, even considering 12 So let's start. The existing or future 13 all the -- 13 problems would not go away if we individually refuse to 14 MR. HECK: Well -- 14 look into our behavior, emotions and preconceptions. 15 MS. HESS: -- what do we do? 15 Instead we need to think. 16 MR. HECK: I can -- you know the Council had 16 So we rather than jumping in and tackling 17 me on April 5th write a letter to the EPA somewhat 17 hard -- systems, we can start by changing things that 18 outraged about the fact that we had discovered this 18 are soft, our beliefs, values and individual choices. 19 1,4-Dioxane and through the course of the letter and 19 I am a member of Earth Citizens Organization. 20 other correspondence we've had with them, we kind of 20 And this organization proposes three changes. We 21 alluded to the fact that hey, listen, we don't want you 21 created a lot of dysfunctional systems and we are 22 to do anything more on these ground AOC's until the 22 witnessing that these systems are not working and we 23 groundwater catches, because in my opinion the 1,4- 23 are looking for solutions. 24 Dioxane give us a little pause to say, wait a minute, 24 So here is what our citizens organization 25 we want know a little bit more about this. We want to 25 proposes. We have to acknowledge the Earth as the ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 154 156 1 center value. We have to cultivate the natural healing 1 benefit all beyond personal benefit and interest. It 2 capacity within and we have to be mindful in everything 2 goes of the size of the job. We need heros, not just 3 we do. 3 one or two, but lots of them. 4 The first guides us to make right decisions 4 The current situation of the world requires 5 that benefit all. The second helps us get healthier in 5 every one of us to become a hero. Superman or 6 a simple and natural light. And the third allows us to 6 Superwoman is not coming. He or she is already here. 7 access the greatest qualities of human nature, such as 7 You are the superheros that the earth has been waiting 8 content and kindness. 8 for. 9 Earth, as our center value, seeing the earth 9 This organization I'm a member of, develops 10 as our most fundamental value is not difficult. It is 10 leaders who make a difference in their communities and 11 the most natural conclusion we would reach if we look 11 lead impactful changes locally and globally for -- 12 at what's at the root of the conditions that allow us 12 remain a sustainable world. 13 to pursue the values we want in life, such as health, 13 So as much as I appreciate your expertise and 14 happiness, peace and freedom. 14 your experiences, this would not serve us in the long 15 Clean air, water, sunlight, the temperature 15 term. We definitely need more leaders and providing 16 and the natural earth itself are the foundation. These 16 leadership programs -- all potentially is, supporting 17 are natural absolute values that are common and 17 outreach activities and developing learning centers 18 indispensable to all --. 18 around the world that people will ultimately change 19 This observation gives us a simple guideline 19 their thinking. 20 for making choices. What's good for you but not good 20 I'm going to repeat, our behavior, all this 21 for others wouldn't be good for you either eventually. 21 will be creating for ourselves. We have to look below 22 What's good for you or others, but not good for the 22 the behavior where are thoughts, where our emotions 23 earth wouldn't be good for you or others eventually. 23 are. And also that's kind of easy, but then we have to 24 What's good for you, for others and for the earth is 24 go deeper into preconceptions where we can find our 25 good for us all eventually. 25 true selves, creating what we think we are creating, 155 157 1 Soft things can change hard things. Changes 1 because we are talking about what we can do in the 2 in our mind set, change our choices and behaviors and 2 short term and somebody can roll their eyes if it 3 changes in our choices and behaviors will change the 3 doesn't resonate with them, but it's ultimately 4 world and experience. 4 something we have to do if we want to get to a level. 5 There are reasons why the threat of the 5 I will end it with something that I not only 6 changes proposed are so dreadful. First, we don't need 6 do with knowledge, but it's something by experience. 7 to create anything to integrate these changes into our 7 We do have to balance our male and female energies. 8 life. They are already inside us. We simply need to 8 Our evolution of the human race is all what we are 9 begin to use them. We don't use our will 100 percent, 9 actually experiencing right now. 10 -- will come. 10 Dominance, ego, male energies have to be 11 Second, these purely internal changes are 11 balanced with love. That's what we are talking about. 12 totally up to us. We don't need to wait for 12 We're talking about female energies are returning, 13 industries, governments or outside assistance to 13 coming to a golden age. That's what it is about. It 14 change. These changes are very soft, but so 14 is about bringing this love and female energies back. 15 fundamental and profound that they will affect all 15 And if we don't do that, we will just 16 aspects of our life from the inside out. 16 continue in this disaster we're dealing with. We're 17 And finally these changes are both free and 17 here every single day and this is our town. It's 18 stress free. The more we adopt them, the healthier -- 18 happening everywhere. Everywhere. 19 will get. And easier and -- our life will become, 19 So this organization is actually creating a 20 especially if we start from the beginning. 20 ground to bring new leaders, educate children, create 21 Healthier together by caring for the well- 21 new centers. So if anyone wants to look into that, 22 being of other people in our community. The change 22 it's Earth Citizens dot org. Thank you. 23 will be very good and enjoyable. 23 (Audience applause) 24 There is a question of if Superman will come. 24 MR. CONWAY: Thomas Conway, 29 West Circle. 25 So what makes one into a hero is the willingness to 25 Ford is going to love this meeting when they ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 158 160 1 watch it. They're going to love this. We got a piece 1 And lastly, thank you, Council, for bringing 2 of dirt on top of land right now that we're fighting 2 in the experts, for having this meeting tonight. I do 3 about. The citizens and the Council, the local people. 3 appreciate it, I learned a lot and keep fighting the 4 My biggest concern right now is drinking 4 battle. Thank you. 5 water. The water that goes into my children's body. 5 MR. SANDO: Peter Sando, 24 High Point Lane. 6 I'm not in the mine area, I'm not in Upper Ringwood, so 6 S-A-N-D-O. 24 High Point Lane. 7 it's a concern, but it's not my number one. 7 First of all whoever has a cell phone that 8 What affects our drinking water, it's not 8 keeps on going off, why don't you turn it off, because 9 going to be what we're talking about tonight. It's 9 it's distracting. 10 Peters Mine. There's miles of mind shafts going 10 A couple of things, simple points I want to 11 through the earth, through this bedrock. 11 make. You talked about the two requests you made of 12 If there's something you need to worry about, 12 the EPA, one about trying to remove the liability 13 it's the mine shafts that could possibly go to the 13 because of the land acquisitions, the way the land was 14 well. They filled with millions, I think over 100 14 acquired and they refused. 15 million gallons of polluted water. That's where the 15 Okay. What does that have to do with the 16 1,4-Dioxane is. It's in these mines. It's down below 16 people's health up there? 17 the surface of the earth. It's not on top. 17 And the second one was to shrink the area 18 If O'Connor is the source of it, I would be 18 from 400 acres to 30 acres to remove the stigma of the 19 shocked, but I really believe Peters Mine is our 19 size of the Superfund site. 20 biggest problem. 20 What difference does that make? People are 21 A quarter of a millennium mining activity has 21 getting sick. The main thing that it needs to be is 22 been going on here. In 1740 is when the first people 22 cleaned up, not the size, it doesn't really make any 23 came up into the area and just took the rocks. It was 23 difference. 24 1773 when actual mining began. 24 And Linda and John were at the last CAG 25 There's a big mining activity in the 1940's, 25 meeting where a professional from Ramapo talked about 159 161 1 this is World War II. They weren't worried about 1 the stigma of living in a Superfund site, not the 2 safety then. Right in the Peters Mine area there's, I 2 stigma of what the size of it is and what effect that's 3 just found this out recently, there's four big pits 3 going to have on people's real estate values or 4 where they stored diesel and fuel oil to run the mining 4 whatever. Which really is inconsequential when you're 5 operations there. There's more than just four here, 5 talking about people dying. 6 there's a lot of stuff under the ground that we should 6 So I think that maybe Linda and John could 7 be concerned about. 7 brief the rest of the Council members as to what the 8 1,4-Dioxane, it's tough for anyone to put 8 gentleman was talking about, like the stress level and 9 their finger on. But according to the World Health 9 the stigma on the community of living in this and then 10 Organization we could drink the highest level we've 10 having a not so satisfying remedy. Like I'm sure that 11 found so far in Peters Mine. So I'm not too concerned 11 they would feel a lot better if it was totally removed. 12 about that. 12 I would, if I lived up there. 13 And then lastly, it's funny sitting here 13 I would, living where I do live, which is 14 hearing everyone talk about the EPA's first solution. 14 kind of far away from there, but I understand how they 15 I guess we trust the EPA now. What they said first is 15 feel. I think I do. 16 right and we should just close the books on it. 16 And you know, I think you should -- 17 No, I don't think that's right. I'm glad our 17 MS. SCHAEFER: And I think I stated before 18 town has an outside expert. I wish we had more outside 18 that my concern is about their safety. My concern is 19 experts in here besides Ford and the EPA to talk to us 19 moving all of that out could change -- removing all 20 about O'Connor. 20 that soil could change, you could have sinkholes that 21 So in conclusion, I hope that Ford can be 21 have equal size of safety. That is my concern. 22 made responsible. I hope we don't distract the real 22 MR. SANDO: Well, I think that is also the 23 issue, which is the tunnel running underneath our 23 fact that you're kind of saying that the EPA -- the 24 houses, the tunnel that threatened to bring this 24 fact that the EPA is saying that both of these remedies 25 pollution into our water supply. 25 are equally protective now was kind of a change of ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 162 164 1 tune. And I think it's highly suspect. 1 Council pushes to that. If the water should be pumped 2 So I think they're just cooperating with the 2 out, altered and maybe put back in, as well the 3 Borough decision to build. 3 pollution that's coming from within Peters Mine. And 4 MS. SCHAEFER: You asked me to answer, so I 4 you should be supporting that to the EPA, that's what 5 am answering that. In fact at the -- 5 you support. 6 MR. SANDO: Well, I disagree with you. 6 Concerning the future land use, instead of 7 MS. SCHAEFER: -- at the CAG meeting I 7 putting an unneeded recycling center on top of 960,000 8 brought that up to Robin Canetti and she said, yes, 8 tons of toxic material, this Council should support a 9 that's Vivian's concern also. Do -- 9 full cleanup and reforestation of the site. And there 10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Vivian has always said 10 should be an interpretative center built honoring the 11 that. That is Vivian's concern. Never about O'Connor. 11 history of the mine and the people of the Ramapo 12 Never about O'Connor. Only Peters Mine. 12 community. 13 MR. SANDO: What I'm talking about is the 13 (Audience applause) 14 presentation that the professor from Ramapo made and I 14 MS. TAULE: We have worked for justice at 15 was wondering if you or John had spoken to the rest of 15 this site for over 40 years. This would be a perfect 16 the Council about it or whether there was any kind of 16 way for Ford, the EPA and the Borough of Ringwood to 17 -- I know that the guy showed up with a PowerPoint 17 atone for its past neglect, disrespect and unjust 18 presentation, there was no equipment. His microphone 18 treatment of the Ramapo community. 19 was broken, so it was kind of, you know, rough. 19 (Audience applause) 20 But I think there are videos of it and I 20 MR. KOZIELSKI: My name is Phil Kozielski, 21 would recommend that the Council -- he made an 21 K-O-Z-I-E-L-S-K-I. 8 Stone Ridge Drive. 22 excellent presentation about the psychological effects, 22 If we cap this area that's supposedly 23 the stress level of living in the Superfund site based 23 possible pollution in it, the pollution stays there, 24 on his experience in other places. 24 right? It doesn't -- we don't take it out. 25 MR. HECK: I requested that he send us a copy 25 The article in the record from Ogden Lakes: 163 165 1 of his PowerPoint. 1 “And officials overseeing the cleanup --“ 2 MR. SANDO: Yeah, he was excellent. 2 Officials. 3 MR. HECK: I don't have it yet. 3 “-- cleanup the contaminated groundwater 4 MR. SANDO: You should check it out. 4 beneath hundreds of homes in Pompton Lakes have said 5 Also one thing that really strikes me is a 5 for years the pollution was not likely to migrate 6 lot of this stuff that was said here tonight strikes me 6 beneath the lake to the Wayne side.” 7 as somewhat absurd, but the most absurd statement, I 7 “However two independent hydrologists who 8 thought, was yours saying that you're concerned about 8 looked at the geology underlying the region, at the 9 that this material was going to be moved somewhere 9 Record's request, said it's certainly possible 10 where it's still going to be an environmental threat to 10 contamination could have traveled under Pompton Lakes 11 some dumping site. 11 and then into the residential wells in the Iron Lake 12 We're talking about in the neighborhood. So 12 section of Wayne.” 13 wouldn't it be better to get it out of the neighborhood 13 Another example. 14 and into a dumping site, I don't care if it's in Canada 14 “Indeed chromium that spilled at an 15 or Pennsylvania or whatever. It just seems like rather 15 industrial site in Garfield decades ago and spread 16 insensitive to me. 16 beneath hundreds of homes has migrated underneath the 17 And that's about it. You know, I do think 17 Passaic River into the next town over to the City of 18 that the -- you know, I recall the EPA have the, you 18 Passaic.” 19 know, number one recommendation was having it cleaned 19 I consider the Wanaque reservoir and the 20 up. Now that they're changing their tune on that, I 20 Monksville reservoir my Passaic River, okay? If it's 21 find that highly suspect in my opinion. 21 in the ground, sooner or later it's going to start to 22 MS. TAULE: W-E-N-K-E T-A-U-L-E, 24 Highpoint 22 leak a little bit more. It's going to come that way. 23 Lane. 23 If you don't take it out, it's always going to be 24 Mayor Speer, I agree with you that we should 24 there. Thank you. 25 be concerned about Peters Mine. I hope that the 25 (Audience applause) ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 166 168 1 MR. BOLTON: Brian Bolton, 28 Glenn Road. 1 1737, 1783 and 1884. One intensity six, four intensity 2 Again thank you for having this meeting 2 five and at least three intensity three shocks have 3 tonight. I do want to say as somebody who recently 3 occurred in the New York area over the last 300 years.” 4 moved to town, there is a difference between the 4 “The time spans between the intensity for 5 availability of information and outreach for something 5 seven earthquakes was 46 in 101 years. This is data 6 that is so important. I would like to see my Borough 6 for the smaller intensity earthquakes imply the return 7 being far more proactive in communication to this 7 period for 100 years or less and suggests that New 8 community as opposed to the community taking it upon 8 Jersey is overdue for a moderate earthquake like the 9 themselves. 9 one in 1884.” 10 I'd also like say and echo a lot of what's 10 So I just wanted to point that out. 11 said tonight in terms of the long term view here. 11 MS. DODGE: I have actually the very specific 12 We're a town that is charged with protecting the water 12 data from the United States geological survey for the 13 for thousands upon thousands of people. My, my 13 New Jersey region, if you'd like to take a look at it, 14 children, my children's children and all of our 14 I can provide it to you. I can provide it to you 15 neighbors. 15 afterwards. 16 We have a moral obligation here and it seems 16 This is an area where there's activity and my 17 like we're neglecting it and quite frankly the meeting 17 point earlier was in spite of that activity, we haven't 18 kind of felt like it was being run by Ford. And I 18 seen any change in any of the water quality. 19 would like to see a little bit of a fight -- 19 MS. MILLIGAN: But there's always a 20 (Audience applause) 20 possibility. 21 MR. BOLTON: It doesn't seem like we're 21 MS. DODGE: Well and that also just is based 22 fighting hard enough for the right solution and that 22 on an inference though that there's something that is 23 just bothers me. I would rather pay the bill for 23 down there that we should be worried about and the data 24 failed lawsuits if we tried. If we tried to get the 24 doesn't support that. 25 full thing done and we tried to do it right and it came 25 We're seeing levels that have been monitored 167 169 1 back to us and we had to eat it, taxes are high enough 1 deep in the rocks, in the bottom of the air shaft and 2 already, I'll keep paying on it, but I want to at least 2 this combination of looking at those concentrations 3 fight. 3 where they moved over the period of the time that it 4 (Audience applause) 4 has been monitored and it's been about 30 years. 5 MS. MILLIGAN: Hi, my name is Ann Milligan, 5 And then the frequency of the earthquakes, 6 M-I-L-L-I-G--A-N. 64 Weir Place, Ringwood, New Jersey. 6 because 22 is just in this region and there's more than 7 I actually was reading something on the New 7 that. And I'm glad you brought this up because this is 8 Jersey Department of Environmental Protection's own New 8 something that constantly is being monitored, 9 Jersey geological and water survey, earthquake risk 9 constantly is being considered. The reason why we have 10 page. And it was about something that you had 10 this data is because we've been tracking it also. 11 referenced to that we had 22 earthquakes or so, 11 MS. MILLIGAN: Okay. My concern with that 12 whatever the number was. 12 would be is that over time and maybe it's not 30 years, 13 This is what I quote: 13 maybe it's 40 years, if we don't remove this, 14 “Frequency of damaging earthquakes in New 14 especially not the Cooper -- I'm talking about the 15 Jersey. Records for the New York City area, --“ 15 Peters Mine, things will over time, the water, things 16 Which is the, you know, the Ramapo fault that 16 adjust and things break down. 17 they're considering here. 17 So you have, hypothetically one of these 18 “ -- which have been kept for 300 years 18 things and you don't remove or remediate the situation 19 provides good information for estimating the frequency 19 now, you're going to have a large catastrophe later on 20 of earthquakes in New Jersey. Earthquakes with a 20 that nobody can do anything with, when we have an 21 maximum intensity of seven --“ 21 opportunity to do something now. 22 I don't know -- they're not doing it by the 22 MS. DODGE: Are you talking about Peters 23 Richter scale that I know of. See table of energy in 23 Mine, because O'Connor is -- 24 earthquakes. 24 MR. MILLIGAN: For the water, for the shafts, 25 “ -- occurred in the New York City area in 25 if something does -- ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 170 172 1 MS. DODGE: That falls into the realm of the 1 (Both talking at same time) 2 groundwater monitoring portion of it and the remedy 2 MS. HESS: Yes, it's effected more -- 3 which has not yet been selected. But thank you for 3 MS. DODGE: This actually goes into the realm 4 your time. 4 of the ongoing investigation of groundwater, which is a 5 MS. MILLIGAN: Thank you. 5 separate operable unit, as the Mayor indicated, it's 6 (Audience applause) 6 considered operable unit three. 7 MS. HESS: Lisa Hess. 7 Land, areas of concern, which is Peters, 8 So the 1,4-Dioxane is from Peters Mine. I 8 Cannon and O'Connor is a separate operable unit, that's 9 don't know that that's -- it looks like the brook 9 two. 10 travels, right? It sounds corny, but that -- again, 10 MS. HESS: Right. 11 does the brook go into the reservoir? 11 MS. DODGE: That's what the record of 12 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: All the way down the road 12 decision I have here is on. 13 towards -- 13 The groundwater investigation is ongoing and 14 MS. HESS: Right. So if that 1,4-Dioxane 14 that will be all taken into consideration prior to any 15 keeps leaking out of Peters Mine, aren't we going to 15 determination on the next steps. 16 have a problem in the reservoir? 16 MS. HESS: Okay. 17 MAYOR SPEER: You one thing I always -- 17 MS. MONAHAN: And I think too it's worth 18 always got to keep in mind. Whatever is in there got 18 mentioning and I don't mean to step into Lawra's realm 19 there 50 years ago. So it's not like you can't make a 19 here as a lawyer, but there are multiple networks of 20 mental model like there's some reservoir of gook that's 20 wells, wells that are called sentinel wells that are 21 just going to open up and flood into the reservoir. 21 downgradient of where contamination has been detected. 22 MS. HESS: I know, but I think -- 22 And the purpose of having those sentinel 23 (Both talking at same time) 23 wells down gradient is so that you have like a warning 24 MAYOR SPEER: You know it's kind of like -- 24 system, you know, so that if it shows up in a sentinel 25 what's that. 25 well, you have an opportunity to be noticed of it, so 171 173 1 MS. HESS: -- that's where you start testing. 1 that, you know, well four has any octane in reach, 2 MAYOR SPEER: What were the levels in 1972? 2 either the Borough would cut off the water supply or 3 What was then. You know then you would think that then 3 the Wanaque reservoir. 4 those pits were open and such, water was getting right 4 I think the point that the Mayor is trying to 5 on top of that material and it's moving down. 5 make relative to, you know, one of the advantages so to 6 But now after it been in the ground for 50 6 speak that you have at this site and I don't get in 7 years, it's kind of reached a, you know, what's that 7 many other sites that I work on, when the site is 8 called, a stayed state, is that the term? 8 investigated, it's generally done within a year or a 9 MS. DODGE: Well, it's not really coming out 9 year and a half and then remedial action decisions are 10 of Peters Mine -- 10 made based on one and a half years of information. 11 MAYOR SPEER: Well, it's evolving like for 11 In this situation, and I'm not saying it's a 12 the benzine, because they keep on finding it -- they're 12 good thing, but it's what we have and that is you've 13 finding it at very low levels and sporadically. 13 got four years of data, right? That's been collected 14 MS. HESS: Okay. So my question is if that 14 over all of this time. 15 1,4-Dioxane goes into the reservoir and it's now 15 And so if the Wanaque reservoir and the 16 poisoned, the water for four million people in 12 other 16 Borough wells has tested clean for 1,4-Dioxane and it's 17 towns. Is Ringwood on the hook financially as well as 17 being found at the bottom of this air shaft at 230 18 the water commission, because we knew it was there and 18 feet, the threat that it is affecting or could get to 19 we left it in the ground. 19 the reservoir, because as John said, you know, whatever 20 Without Peters Mine, we haven't taken the 20 was deposited it's either from the old historic mining 21 water out -- 21 operation in the, you know, mid 1700's to the 1900's or 22 MS. DODGE: We're talking about two different 22 during the dumping in the late '60's, early '70's. 23 things now, because I don't want to get them confused 23 That's already, the most recent, over 40 years ago. 24 with the discussion of O'Connor, because O'Connor again 24 So if something was going to happen, and 25 is not at the -- 25 again this is all before any remediation has taken ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 174 176 1 place, it's before any protective caps are put in 1 land, to the extent all these things -- it's geologic 2 place. Like the Mayor is saying everything's currently 2 time. It's like a ticking time bomb. That's the way I 3 exposed to the rain, the snow melting. 3 strongly feel about that. 4 So if there's going to be movement, you know, 4 MS. TAULE: I'm Wenke Taule. Back to Peters 5 it would have happened by now. 5 Mine, Mayor, you were wondering what was going on there 6 And so that predictability, in terms of going 6 before the recent testing. But in the '80's there was 7 forward, you know, how can we be so certain that it's 7 severe drought in the State of New Jersey and the 8 not going to move? You've got 30 years of actual data 8 federal and the government thought about using the 9 that tells you how it's behaving under all sorts of -- 9 water in the Peters Mine. 10 (Several talking at same time) 10 So they came up and they tested and it was so 11 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- 30 years ago, now 11 polluted that that was totally out of the question. 12 they -- 12 So that mine is totally polluted. And we 13 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It probably was -- 13 live on fractured bedrock and it is so right that 30 14 MAYOR SPEER: They couldn't mess with this at 14 years is nothing. 15 the time -- they couldn't even get like wild tests for 15 And by the way, that was not monitored 16 these levels that they want to look for. 16 properly for 30 years. Ford barely monitored that 17 MS. DODGE: The early methods were kind of 17 water at all. That was one of the reasons that it came 18 lost in the prior years and it was just until recently 18 back on the Superfund site. There's not 30 years of, 19 where they've been refined to be able to reliably, you 19 you know, testing that you can really go by. 20 know, get down to the low levels that we're seeing. 20 So again, Mayor, and Council you should 21 And those low levels, in some cases, are still above 21 support a full cleanup of the Peters Mine, absolutely. 22 the -- standards, which is why we're still going to do 22 And you can't tell me that what's coming out 23 the investigation and monitoring. 23 of Peters Mine and rolling around the O'Connor landfill 24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: The dioxane they just 24 and ends up I don't know where but – and the O'Connor 25 started. 25 landfill is totally polluted too, we've got to get it 175 177 1 MS. HESS: Right. Right. And again would 1 out. 2 you be responsible because you know it's there and New 2 (Audience applause) 3 Jersey water -- 3 MR. BELL: Just something real quick. Lad 4 MS. DODGE: Well, I -- 4 Bell, 16 Chris Terrace. L-A-D B-E-L-L. 5 MS. HESS: -- equally responsible -- 5 Just a quick question, Mr. Mayor, you know, 6 MS. MONAHAN: I mean again, you know, under 6 why did you authorize the traffic light at Erskine and 7 CERCLA the owner of, you know, the property, you know, 7 Skyline? 8 EPA has said that the Borough is a potentially 8 MR. HECK: Why did we authorize it? 9 responsible party here, you know, along with Ford. 9 MR. BELL: Yeah. What was the reason to put 10 MR. HECK: We actually own a part of it. 10 the light in? You have to think about this, seriously? 11 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How about if the people 11 MR. HECK: It was a decision. How long have 12 who, you know, drink that water are that concerned or 12 you lived in town? 13 Ford, whatever, if those 4 million people are really 13 MR. BELL: 12 years. 14 concerned about, maybe they can pay to take it out and 14 MR. HECK: So weren't you here for all the 15 not leave it on us, you know, there's three or 4,000 15 debates over the traffic light. The roundabout? 16 gallons here. 16 MR. BELL: I was, I was. What -- let me 17 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- the supplier though. 17 rephrase. What was the purpose of putting a traffic 18 Our region is the supplier, wouldn't they be 18 light in? Leave it was the way it was. Traffic got 19 responsible? 19 through then. Public safety, right? 20 (Several people talking at the same time) 20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Public safety. 21 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Tell them to buy the land. 21 MR. BELL: You did the right thing. 22 (Several people talking at the same time) 22 MR. HECK: How about you let him talk, so we 23 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- a lot of time, right? 23 can handle it on the recording here. 24 MR. HECK: Yes. 24 MR. BELL: You looked through the roundabout, 25 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: -- down a stream to the 25 because other countries are removing roundabouts. You ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 178 180 1 did the correct thing, the safe thing for everybody. 1 I, JONATHAN ROSENBERG, a Certified Court 2 It's THE best thing this town ever did was put that 2 Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New Jersey, 3 traffic light in. 3 do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and 4 So do the right thing now. 4 accurate transcript of the testimony transcribed at the 5 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: It was paid froM by -- 5 time, and place and on the date hereinbefore set forth 6 MR. BELL: Who cares who was paying for it, 6 to the best of my ability. 7 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a 7 you guys had a hand in it. You did the right thing. 8 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of any 8 It's the best thing this town has ever done. 9 of the parties to this action and that I am neither a 9 Do the right thing now. Do the right thing 10 relative nor employee of such attorney or counsel and 10 now. Remove the crap, remove the poison, so we don't 11 that I am not financially interested in the action. 11 have to keep on going with this. 12 12 I mean whether it's commingled, get it out of 13 13 there. Fight for it. You have to fight. You have to 14 14 at least fight. 15 15 MS. MONAHAN: We have been. 16 16 MR. BELL: Keep going. Fight with the 17 17 insurance companies, keep going. It's like you're 18 18 throwing your hands up and saying well Ford might not 19 ______19 -- how do you know they're not, just do it. JONATHAN ROSENBERG, C.C.R. 20 C.C.R. License No. 30X100207100 20 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: There's far more to it -- Notary Public of the 21 MR. BELL: I'm sure there's more to it than 21 State of New Jersey 22 we all as residents understand what you can and cannot 22 23 talk about. But you've got to do the right thing here. 23 24 (Audience applause) 24 25 MAYOR SPEER: Anybody else want to come up? 25 179 181 1 No? 1 CERTIFICATION 2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Seeing no one else, I'll 2 I, JENNIFER WILSON, the assigned transcriber, 3 make a motion to close the public portion. 3 do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and 4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Second. 4 accurate transcript of the testimony transcribed at the 5 MAYOR SPEER: Want take a roll call to close 5 time, and place and on the date hereinbefore set forth 6 to the public first. 6 to the best of my ability. 7 MS. HALEWICZ: Mayor Speer? 7 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a 8 MAYOR SPEER: Yes. 8 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of any 9 MS. HALEWICZ: Deputy Mayor Martocci? 10 DEPUTY MAYOR MARTOCCI: Yes. 9 of the parties to this action and that I am neither a 11 MS. HALEWICZ: Council Member Anderson? 10 relative nor employee of such attorney or counsel and 12 MS. ANDERSON: Yes. 11 13 MS. HALEWICZ: Marsala? 12 that I am not financially interested in the action. 14 MR. MARSALA: Yes 13 15 MS. HALEWICZ: Noonan? 14 16 MR. NOONAN: Yes. 15 17 MS. HALEWICZ: Schaefer? 16 18 MS. SCHAEFER: Yes. 17 19 MAYOR SPEER: Folks, we thank everybody for 18 20 coming out. Thank you for your endurance. 19 ______May 23, 2016 21 (Whereupon the meeting was concluded at JENNIFER WILSON, AD/T #623 Date 22 12:08:42 p.m.) 23 20 Certified Transcriber, 24 State of New Jersey 25 CERTIFICATION 21 ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 182

A 105:23,24 48:6,7 105:1 acquired 11:15 abandoned 108:6 110:13 105:2 121:13 14:8,16 15:2 14:15 23:23 110:18 111:1 174:21 81:22 147:21 abandonment 112:11 114:3 absolute 160:14 81:23 115:9,10,14 154:17 acquires 81:25 abbreviate 7:6 116:13,19 absolutely acquiring abbreviated 117:18 29:1 65:6 11:25 7:5 119:11,13 66:12 67:11 acquisition ability 25:23 122:15,17 109:18 15:4 180:6 181:6 123:5,7,15 116:25 acquisitions able 6:9 37:9 123:19,20 126:23 160:13 37:16 40:15 124:10,18 150:19 acre 38:11 40:16 47:3 125:9 126:11 176:21 58:4,21,21 56:24 63:18 128:7 133:2 absurd 163:7,7 59:5 71:23 79:23 93:5 134:5,9 acceptable 72:7 75:10 128:25 135:4,10 92:23 acreage 58:18 148:11,13 136:17,19,23 accepted 58:14 acres 11:15,21 174:19 137:17,19 accepting 91:7 12:23,23 about 5:25 139:13 access 10:18 13:3,3,7,11 7:13 8:19 141:25 142:6 154:7 13:12,13,14 12:17,19 143:10,12,25 accident 150:2 13:21,21,24 13:13 14:5 146:5,19 accidents 13:25 14:7 17:22 19:21 147:7 149:15 63:10,13 14:15,17 21:12 23:5 150:18 accommodat... 25:10 52:13 24:1 25:10 151:18,25 56:19 58:9,19 59:8 29:16 32:24 152:22 157:1 accomplish 59:11 71:11 35:8 36:24 157:11,12,13 38:17 72:5 75:9,10 38:1 39:12 157:14 158:3 accordance 148:1 160:18 40:24,25 158:9,12 3:10 36:9 160:18 41:4,13 159:1,7,12 according acronym 25:5 44:21 48:25 159:14,20 12:22 125:3 acronyms 25:4 55:6,12 160:11,12,25 159:9 across 23:6,19 58:19 63:6 161:5,8,18 account 13:17 38:6 59:22 64:2,4,9 162:11,12,13 26:19 97:17 100:5 67:6,8,13,19 162:16,22 accurate 6:17 100:9 129:10 70:3,6,7,10 163:8,12,17 84:8 85:2 act 105:13 71:6 72:18 163:25 113:25 180:4 119:18 73:13 74:1,5 167:10 181:4 action 17:24 75:9 76:5 168:23 169:4 accurately 18:16 25:1 78:2,5,6,9 169:14,22 10:25 25:20 36:20 62:18 78:17 79:4 171:22 109:6 66:9,10,11 80:7 81:8 175:11,14 achieve 15:22 67:9 73:4 83:4,5 86:13 176:3,8 53:6 80:18 83:18 86:14 91:14 177:10,22 acid 34:3 109:12 97:3 104:22 178:23 acknowledge 145:20 173:9 104:23 105:5 above 40:6 153:25 180:9,11

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ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 184 agreement 16:3 72:24 73:1 95:17 178:25 21:12 54:21 74:22 75:3 Anderson 1:11 anymore 125:6 56:20 77:10 80:14 4:4,5 84:25 140:21 agrees 59:9 81:8 83:7 179:11,12 anyone 46:21 ahead 61:8,9 84:3 97:24 and/or 112:5 94:3 126:24 101:10 99:24 100:2 Ann 2:20 167:5 157:21 159:8 129:25 101:22 annual 46:12 anything 5:13 ain't 135:10 113:13 144:21 27:17 34:8 138:10 114:17 another 5:19 34:24 36:3 air 108:10 146:16 155:8 16:2 18:20 37:10 38:22 154:15 169:1 156:6 167:2 43:22 50:24 41:4 42:14 173:17 173:23 52:23 61:2 44:11 45:25 airline 89:17 alright 42:6 77:13 79:3 47:1,21 48:4 Al 2:13 102:16 altered 164:2 81:5 86:18 49:2,19 alive 105:22 alternate 99:5 86:19 89:15 91:14 99:11 alleged 73:20 alternative 90:12,14 104:12 121:4 allegiance 19:14 20:1 96:9 101:7 131:14 4:19,20 37:4 38:4,21 103:3 104:2 151:22 155:7 allocated 72:12 73:15 105:6 107:13 169:20 140:13 alternatives 117:5,5 anytime 5:20 allocation 18:16,23,23 165:13 8:13 49:18 56:10 140:15 19:12,16 answer 24:14 anyway 146:6 allow 75:11 35:12,13,17 32:2 84:12 anywhere 36:7 154:12 36:18 37:6 87:17 92:2,6 36:14 37:1 allowed 60:23 37:13,18 92:12 93:9 103:14 108:7 82:24 40:11 50:14 93:11 98:3 AOC's 151:22 allowing 84:16 60:10 72:20 101:2,21 apart 39:25 allows 154:6 73:6,11 113:16 114:1 43:1 91:22 alluded 151:21 Although 68:9 124:22 141:5 apologize almost 105:15 89:21 132:8 143:9 148:15 22:15 51:4 alone 75:16 always 9:18 148:16 apology 90:17 131:1 15:21 41:13 149:15 apparent 17:12 along 7:21 49:4 86:23 150:19 appeal 3:11 25:23 27:24 124:16 152:21 162:4 110:17 29:8,20 136:11 answered 92:22 APPEARANCES 30:25 46:9 162:10 97:9 153:5 1:18 47:21 60:5 165:23 answering appeared 21:14 60:21 71:9 168:19 162:5 appears 19:10 76:18 136:1 170:17,18 answers 90:1 applaud 118:6 175:9 amidst 63:19 93:6 98:17 applauding already 10:11 among 63:25 107:11 117:12 13:6 22:15 amount 22:14 151:12 applause 51:1 47:22 51:6 49:9 65:13 anybody 5:21 84:19 89:11 55:15 63:4 67:20 29:24 49:21 90:19 91:19 64:11,25 amounts 56:4 71:2 87:9 118:22 67:21 69:13 analysis 18:22 91:2 126:12 119:24

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ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 221 payment 57:13 103:9 Peter 2:18 124:13 payments 65:22 percent 21:17 45:23 160:5 141:13 peace 154:14 34:11 44:14 Peters 11:22 phrase 112:25 pebbles 78:10 50:21 55:6 12:1 25:15 physical 27:9 pedestrian 77:4,7,24,25 26:23 30:20 28:10 128:25 63:10,12 111:16 36:8 37:24 physically pen 89:5,5 116:18 37:25 38:3,5 37:17 42:25 133:16 119:12,16 38:20 39:14 pick 70:11 Pennsylvania 129:2 155:9 44:24 45:6 picked 70:12 23:6 163:15 percentage 45:10,10,14 picking 49:19 people 10:10 116:1 45:16 46:10 49:20,20 10:13 30:10 perfect 164:15 47:10,15 138:6 34:5 43:8,19 perfectly 48:5 57:8 picture 16:17 49:2 70:25 90:25 58:16 68:10 piece 102:23 76:1 82:21 perform 53:24 69:1,8,11,15 158:1 85:1 88:9,12 77:15 71:25 93:12 pieces 33:14 90:20 93:4 performance 93:19 94:8 44:16 104:21 98:22 99:3 46:22,23 106:13,24,25 129:4 109:24,25 performed 63:5 108:3 109:1 piping 137:3 110:13,15 perhaps 68:6 109:8 114:14 pit 25:15 111:20 118:2 81:11 82:3 122:24 134:3 44:24 56:5 121:17 123:6 perimeter 136:6 137:18 57:9,9 58:16 124:21,24 33:16 137:20 58:17 106:13 126:8,15 period 63:8 144:25 106:24,25 127:10,21 143:11,15 158:10,19 108:3 109:1 130:12,15,22 144:9 168:7 159:2,11 116:19 130:24 169:3 162:12 pits 67:22 132:21 135:5 periods 139:3 163:25 164:3 68:11 128:23 136:2,20 permits 152:16 169:15,22 128:24 135:1 138:11 permitted 79:8 170:8,15 135:4,5 143:14 100:6 171:10,20 159:3 171:4 147:14 perpetuity 172:7 176:4 place 3:12 155:22 139:6 140:23 176:9,21,23 8:11,22,23 156:18 158:3 person 10:23 petty 90:4 11:17 37:7 158:22 49:14 51:14 phase 27:1 37:16,17 160:20 161:5 personal 21:2 Phil 2:19 72:14 85:22 164:11 156:1 164:20 98:9 99:21 166:13 personally philosophy 110:20 171:16 128:25 50:7 124:11 133:9 175:11,13,20 personnel phone 98:19 138:24 175:22 75:20 160:7 141:17 167:6 people's 45:1 persons 82:13 phones 90:3 174:1,2 138:1 160:16 82:20 83:10 phonetic 24:9 180:5 181:5 161:3 92:15 141:10 31:23 106:1 placed 142:5 per 96:2 97:1 perspective 111:10 places 88:16 97:2 103:6,9 30:8 35:1 123:12,13 90:7 96:25

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ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 226 reeks 117:23 regulations reluctance 173:25 refer 8:13 24:16 144:12 65:1 remediations 21:6,10 regulatory remain 68:21 52:14 28:17 41:2 139:21 83:21 156:12 remedies 17:18 reference 8:12 reimbursed remained 53:5 26:6 30:20 referenced 127:15 remaining 30:25 41:16 26:3 73:4 reimbursement 44:10 69:23 52:15 54:15 167:11 101:6 114:18 129:1 61:6 63:2 referred 57:6 reimbursing 129:3 76:8 77:16 refinance 59:3 111:15 remains 67:23 77:20 83:12 refined 174:19 rejected 56:17 67:24 73:2 122:4 144:21 reforestation related 27:16 88:10 144:24 164:9 28:9,13,17 remarks 7:13 161:24 refuse 80:17 29:13 40:10 53:13 57:15 remedy 8:6 153:13 49:19 94:10 66:21 82:19 9:15 17:18 refused 22:6 103:22 139:2 remedial 18:16 18:3,12,14 55:8,22 139:2 18:23 24:10 18:17,25 64:12,22 relationship 24:15 54:7 19:1,9 20:1 115:6 116:8 106:10 54:11 60:9 20:10 36:10 145:19 relative 53:11 60:13 62:18 36:10,12,12 146:21,23 55:16,18 62:24 65:3,8 38:21,23 160:14 59:1 61:3,6 68:2 72:19 59:13,20,23 regard 34:10 62:16 63:2 73:4 77:13 60:7,7,11,16 52:19 65:3 66:5,19 77:16 107:10 60:19 61:13 regarding 8:5 67:8 69:23 173:9 61:24,25 11:6 37:20 70:24 75:6 remediate 25:1 62:20 63:20 130:24 75:24 76:2,7 107:2 138:23 64:9 69:15 region 18:18 77:9 78:7 169:18 70:12,13 19:2 59:22 79:25 80:6 remediated 71:7,8,8,15 60:4,5,11 80:14 81:14 66:23 80:24 72:10,16 62:21,22 92:4 98:6,12 remediating 73:14,14 126:13 165:8 114:2,5,11 52:12 75:8 76:8,12 168:13 169:6 115:11 remediation 76:15 79:20 175:18 146:17,18 17:9,15 80:9,12,15 regions 59:22 149:22 173:5 18:22 23:2 82:7 83:14 94:20 180:8,10 23:11 25:3 109:9 140:14 Region's 19:13 181:8,10 37:2 40:8 145:4,7,14 regular 4:22 release 14:25 52:7 53:20 146:2 150:5 75:20 95:17 57:18 58:1 56:13,15 151:3 161:10 139:5,24 relentlessly 58:10 59:25 170:2 140:4 111:13 62:12 66:5 remember 12:19 regularly reliably 66:20 67:16 26:9 45:22 149:1 174:19 77:4 80:22 97:17 129:9 regulated 96:4 relieved 61:1 126:10 135:23 regulation relocation 141:14,19,21 remiss 5:21 42:19 86:11 144:3,3,15 remnants 67:25

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ROSENBERG & ASSOCIATES, INC. (800) 662-6878 www.rosenbergandassociates.com 234 stays 164:23 131:9,11,12 Suburban 3:16 140:21 steep 69:5 131:14,16 3:19 144:20 75:25 175:25 successfully 147:25 stenographer streaming 10:8 143:23 160:19 161:1 6:16 10:24 street 97:17 such 66:23 162:23 step 31:15 stress 155:18 86:13 110:14 176:18 87:22 136:7 161:8 162:23 154:7,13 superheros 150:11 stretch 46:9 171:4 180:10 156:7 172:18 strict 76:23 181:10 Superman stepped 31:5 76:25 77:2 sudden 107:24 155:24 156:5 steps 151:11 106:17 sue 2:17 71:2 Superwoman 172:15 strikes 163:5 71:3 72:21 156:6 stigma 58:22 163:6 80:12 88:20 supplemental 67:1 160:18 stripped 39:5 150:12,13 53:25 77:12 161:1,2,9 stroke 89:5 153:6 supplier still 13:11 133:16 sued 66:16 175:17,18 32:20 42:9 135:25 suffer 58:24 supply 5:14,16 42:11,11 stronger 143:4 suggest 92:20 5:16 50:21 53:19 68:21 strongly 176:3 suggesting 102:23 103:1 93:21 104:12 structural 116:25 159:25 173:2 109:2 115:20 93:14 suggestion support 11:16 127:19,25 stuck 106:18 135:3 82:7 164:5,8 128:15 studies 17:8 suggests 168:7 168:24 129:16 study 35:15 suing 88:23 176:21 130:22 131:7 36:19 42:7 suit 21:8 supporting 139:19 141:9 54:9 60:10 suits 91:4 20:9 61:24 144:18 145:2 63:5,11 summary 20:6 156:16 164:4 145:6 163:10 77:14 summer 48:15 supposed 174:21,22 stuff 7:4 30:4 sunlight 139:10 stock 46:23 86:11 89:10 154:15 supposedly Stone 164:21 106:12,17 Super 48:10 164:22 stopped 9:22 107:15 superfund 5:1 sure 6:17 25:8 13:17 14:21 135:12,13 5:15,15,22 29:15 49:7 82:24 136:3 159:6 7:23 8:2 88:9 92:2 stops 25:14 163:6 11:6,9,21 93:17 97:23 stored 159:4 stupid 122:13 14:20 15:1 117:25 storing 45:24 135:10 15:16,17 118:12,24 storm 47:19 subgrade 25:12 16:14 24:16 123:9 125:5 48:10,18 subject 14:4 26:4 30:8 126:19 story 105:20 130:25 43:1,3 54:16 130:22 straight 37:24 submission 58:20 59:24 134:15 38:5 69:12 18:11 87:15 103:23 139:12 143:8 69:18 submitted 103:25 143:22 152:1 stranger 18:24 109:17 112:1 152:2 161:10 137:24 subsurface 125:5 131:7 178:21 stream 131:8,8 22:25 24:21 131:13 surface 24:18

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