“What Was the War Like?”

Experiencing Surrender; Talking with Josh Fox James R. Ball III and Gelsey Bell

Experiencing Surrender The Arrival The performance has already started with a few people in fatigues barking orders at a long line of civilians on the street. Every audience member must sign a release form and, so it seems from the title of the show and the tone of the actors’ voices, surrender. Though the command form of “Surrender!” will later spin into a more elaborate poetics of war and human nature that will require every audience member to decide who or what they are surrendering to, the initial cul-

James R. Ball III is a PhD candidate in the Department of Performance Studies at NYU. His research considers the United Nations and the International Criminal Court through the lens of theatre and performance, identifying the theatrical conditions of possibility for the work of global politics. He also teaches Studies in Shakespeare to undergraduates in NYU’s Department of Drama. jim.ball.three @gmail.com

Gelsey Bell is a PhD candidate in the Department Performance Studies at NYU, currently completing her dissertation on 20th-century American experimental vocal performance. She is also a singer- songwriter with two studio albums, an experimental vocalist, a core member of the ensembles thingNY and Varispeed, and one of TDR’s Critical Acts Editors. For more information, please visit www.gelseybell.com. [email protected].

TDR: The Drama Review 56:2 (T214) Summer 2012. ©2012 56 New York University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Josh Fox’s Surrender 57 - to communicate about a week before — at the Ohio Theater in New York City, and ran City, York in New Theater at the Ohio . The Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by (Photo 2008. October Theatre, Ohio The . Surrender — noted four years ago have hardly passed. American troops noted four years ago have hardly passed. (created by Gyda Arber) had spectators traipsing about Red Cloud Rising (created by Gyda is a participatory theatrical production, “a simulated war deployment experience in war deployment “a simulated theatrical production, is a participatory

was first produced. In 2011 alone Punchdrunk staged their sprawling Sleep was first produced. Surrender

Josh Fox founded the International WOW Company in 1996 and has since created and WOW Josh Fox founded the International As we head toward another presidential election in the United States, it is worth remem- it is worth in the United States, As we head toward another presidential election Surrender Surrender current the concerns of 2008 seem farther removed than ever from our In some respects, City York have continued to proliferate in New Forms of interactive and immersive theatre Figure 1. (facing page) Audience members drill the proper way to carry, raise, and fire their replica rifles rifles replica their fire and raise, carry, to way proper the drill members Audience page) (facing 1. Figure Company’s WOW startthe at International of Spencer Gordon) this experience, to give a civilian audience terms they can use to address it, will never cease to terms they can use to address it, to give a civilian audience this experience, be relevant. Germany, Japan, the Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, produced over 30 theatrical events in Memorial Day and has more recently begun to work in film. and the United States, France, the documentary Gasland (2010) won a Special Jury and (2008) is a full-length feature film, Surrender Award. Academy Prize at the Sundance Film Festival and was nominated for an are still deployed worldwide, and as they return home, the violence of the battlefield often and as they return home, are still deployed worldwide, that characterize the experience of war cannot be The personal traumas returns with them. the efforts of Surrender than any other, and in this respect more shunted aside, engaged audiences at the HERE Arts Center in a theatrical engaged audiences at the HERE Lower Manhattan and Lush Valley Each of these shows is an example of the dialogue about founding a more perfect community. Surrender York. in theatre and performance in New trend towards interactivity and participation pro- and subsequent political theatre might do, used interactivity to push the bounds of what ductions have followed suit. bering that the problems Surrender Collective’s The Tenant Woodshed and the in a warehouse on Manhattan’s west side No More while the Avenue, Amsterdam Presbyterian Church on West-Park took up residence in the ­videogame-inspired rogate the ways in which pleasure and pain derive from the oscillation between passivity and passivity and the oscillation between and pain derive from ways in which pleasure rogate the agency. powerlessness and activity, US president Barack Obama was elected Theater for three weeks at the Flamboyan It then reopened of November. through the first half show was The in January 2009. City, York also in New Center, Velez in the Clemente Soto Theatrical Experience. in Unique Award Drama Desk nominated for the 2008/09 and in the current American troops left Iraq on 18 December 2011, moment: the last convoy of economic questions of foreign policy have so far taken a back seat to domestic election cycle, our focus is Of course it may be that when daily lives. issues in both our national discourse and has a curious Surrender the traumas of our recent history are most likely to reappear. elsewhere, and the show’s novel form and con- unexpectedly, way of popping back into one’s consciousness tent remain germane and profound in 2012. since three acts” as the subheading to the show tells us, created by the International WOW Company, Company, WOW by the International created to the show tells us, as the subheading three acts” Army written by Fox and and artistic director Josh Fox, WOW by conceived and directed Over the course of the epic three- and writer Jason Christopher Hartley. National Guardsman are deployed combat training, audience members learn basic event, and-a-half-hour (at least) to an episodic drama on a “home” and return set to use their training, through an elaborate perform in scenes with the aid of in which selected participants are asked to proscenium stage, in late October 2008 The show premiered a karaoke-like teleprompter. ture clash of casual New York–theatergoer chit chat and disciplined US military command sum- military command and disciplined US chit chat York–theatergoer of casual New ture clash terms of our engagement soldiers dictate the The basic sense. attention in the most mons us to to inter never ceases Surrender or resist. to submit us with our first opportunity and provide Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

58 Ball/Bell York City, June 2002. (Photo by Josh Fox) Company’s Figure 2. Aaron Unger (foreground) in International WOW January 2007. (Photo by Josh Fox) You Belong to Me, directed by Josh Fox. PS122, New York City, and Beth Griffith (left to right) in International WOW Company’s Figure 4. Katie Mullins, Irene Crist, Harold Kennedy German, December 2004. (Photo by Josh Fox) Company’s Expense of Spirit. Ohio Theater, New York City, Figure 3. Deborah Wallace (foreground) in International WOW Bomb, directed by Josh Fox. Flamboyan Theatre, New rience thatwentbeyondwords fun, deeplyenlightening expe- basic traininga “surprisingly ators ofMemorialDay foundthe for Iraq, in2005. As thepressrelease Soldier: A Year ontheGroundin lished asabook, Just Another demoted, hadalsobeenpub- troversial blog, forwhichhewas stationed since2004. Hiscon- National Guardunithadbeen New Yorkhis where Army recently returnedfromIraq, in Abu Ghraib. Hartleyhad of American soldiers’actions ueing intoaloosereenactment rals outofcontrolbeforeseg- Maryland, thatquicklyspi- wild weekendinOceanCity, Day combat procedures. Memorial who trainedtheactorsinbasic met JasonChristopherHartley, ing forMemorialDay, whenhe of Fox’sexperiencesprepar for stationed inIraq. in Germanytreating Americans present-day USmilitaryhospital War IIinGermany, andina War, thefinaldaysof World moments ofthe American Civil which wassetduringthelast and the prisonatGuantánamoBay; both tortureat Abu Ghraiband included imagesthatreferenced of Your OwnHome(2004), which in Iraq;TheComfortandSafety that herdaughterhasbeenkilled who refusestoacceptthenews (2004), aboutaBrooklynmother of 9/11;TheExpenseSpirit bombtotheevents on the atom J. Robert Oppenheimer’swork which coveredtopicsfrom tary, includingTheBomb(2002), with issuesofwarandthemili- many ­ ­continues thepreoccupationof Much oftheinspiration Surrender Surrender developedout You Belong To Me(2006), begins asagirls-gone- earlier WOW productions states, thecre- - Josh Fox’s Surrender 59 - for instance, there is a cer for instance, — The Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by (Photo 2008. October Theatre, Ohio The Surrender. Surrender. something different from the attitude of the clothes they are the ones yelling at you for tying your shoes — — marking the beginning of being trained “to be trained,” “to be trained,” marking the beginning of being trained — Figure 5. An audience member is handed deserthanded is member audience fatigues camouflage An 5. Figure WOW International participate to in Theatre Ohio the enters she as Company’s Spencer Gordon) Spencer - was the result, with a first act written primarily by Hartley, comprising the crash comprising Hartley, written primarily by with a first act was the result,

Surrender Surrender Simultaneously, the division between actor and audience begins to disappear quite literally the division between actor and audience begins to disappear quite Simultaneously, Audience members sign up for one of two roles, participant or observer, and are directed and are directed or observer, participant up for one of two roles, Audience members sign on the “participant,” Each tain way we have to tie the boot laces as Fox told us later. Actors can be identified before our eyes. that man in a uni- And yet, or taking your time. having your nametag hung incorrectly, wrong, is he an actor or an audience member that has form crossing through the space with purpose, actor and audience is here the hierarchical distance The fourth wall separating taken on a role? know we know our role, the sheets are taken down, By the time between officers and grunts. about in what is now revealed to be a warehouse-sized Before we can begin milling our place. control. Jason Christopher Hartley takes space, course in basic combat training that he leads; a second act essentially written by the audience as by the audience act essentially written that he leads; a second combat training course in basic by a third act written scenarios; and set of different combat through the maze-like they are led facilitate audience participation. concept to “dramatic karaoke” the using Fox, to are escorted of the audience members, a minority “observers,” The to perform accordingly. Actors and partic- the sidelines. before the training begins and seated on a corner of the lobby And while there is a the event. their plain-clothed presence during ipants alike mostly ignore a dis- there is also as an observer, the invisibility of experiencing the piece comfort and safety in observers act like the second act, In in the observer’s lack of agency. empowered melancholy of the Geneva Conventions are the action to see if the standards UN peacekeepers watching they are not. they have no recourse if they find that Of course, upheld. given is regularly other hand, As par the opportunity to act. we are issued an army ticipants, uniform and a pair of boots in the lobby and ushered into the where sheets strung theatre, throughout a large warehouse provide privacy for two dressing The intensity of the sol- rooms. diers’ voices and attitudes cre- ates an atmosphere of tension in which no one seems to be doing what they need to do correctly As Hartley or quickly enough. “always the goal is to explains, keep the people at least a little Always have an [...] off-balance. motor Your elevated heart rate. skills kinda go to crap when (Hartley n.d.). [and] making simple decisions can be difficult” you’re the least bit stressed-out, initial costume- The soldiers keep the pace up by dressing us down. As we dress for action, Feeling unpre- overture to the event as a whole. changing experience is an essential and fitting the desert camouflage momentarily in our underwear among strangers, pared and vulnerable, it conjures in Whether we are familiar with fatigues or not, is something we each must fit into. each of us a change of mind and bearing us for military discipline It also prepares we wore into the theatre. and challenged some of our most fundamental assumptions” (International WOW 2008). After After 2008). WOW (International fundamental assumptions” some of our most and challenged - collaborative proj about a subsequent Fox approached Hartley was completed, the filming ect. Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

60 Ball/Bell 2008. (Photo by Spencer Gordon) their replica M4 rifles at the outset of International WOW Company’s Figure 6. Jason Christopher Hartley newly arrived instructs audience members in the proper care and use of to Iraqafterafewweeksonleave, heconfessed: time: “Her nameis Wazina. She’sdarkandbeautiful” (2005:65). Severalmonthslater, returning Hartley wroteaboutthemomentwhenhereceivedanM4beforedeployingtoIraqforfirst weapon issignificantasthetechnologyofwarfareconditionsthosewhowagewar. Inhisbook, more thanexpected:theyfeelliketoys. The relationshipbetweensoldierand our rifle, andhowtoadjustourposture. Ourplasticreplicariflesareclearlyfakes, butweigh taught whichsidetoshootwith(itisnotassimplebeingleft-orright-handed), howto hold the loadedobject, powerpersonified, asuperhumanextensionofthebody. Intraining, we are cies ofgettingtoknowanobjectandthentakingcareitcanfillthespace. Agunis, literally, tion, whenyouarefeelingself-consciousordon’tknowwhattodowithyourself, theintrica- and elsewhere. An objectorprophastheabilitytostabilizeaperson’sattention. Inanysitua- opportunity tostepoutforafewmoments, butshedeclines. eyes seemsfaroutsideofhercomfortzone. An actornoticesandapproachesher, givingherthe a newshape, andalreadysomeparticipantsarelosingtheirway. A womanwithtearsinher he warnsus, orpush-upswillbeyourwholenightatthetheatre. Ourbodiesareproddedinto Push-ups now, just10, atasteoftheonlypunishmentproductiondolesout. Pay­ FAQ onlineanditsaidtherewouldbenostrenuousactivity[...]yourrecruiterliedtoyou.” social webtheseexperiencesbegintoweave. Hartleyhasbeentalkingtous: “If youreadthe to anddistancefromotherbodiesbecomethekeybothourphysicalexperiences forced intimacythatbeginstoformourcommunityexacerbatespoliticaldiscomfort. Proximity audience members. As itcontinues, agreatdealoftheeventisconstructedthroughtouch. The to usandspreadout. Justasthefourthwallhasfallen, downcomethephysicalbarriersbetween Hartley beginsbyinstructingustoputourrighthandontheleftshoulderofpersonnext Act 1:Basic Training We areeachgivenareplicaM4rifle, astandardissueintheUSmilitaryfortroopsin Iraq Surrender. The Ohio Theatre, October attention, Josh Fox’s Surrender 61 - dowels in order — expelling the other, “them,” “them,” expelling the other, — now some are charged with searching the bodies now some are charged with searching the — “nut to butt or bush to tush” as Hartley put it to us. When we are all as Hartley put it to us. “nut to butt or bush to tush” — the audience member/soldier is unable to give in fully to the fantasy, but the audience member/soldier is unable to give in fully to the fantasy, —

any separation between audience and protagonist has been erased. At the same time, At the same time, any separation between audience and protagonist has been erased. from provoking thought to activating new strategies for solving problems — —

This is not the environment for socializing; we are not even given the chance to learn the This is not the environment for socializing; I had missed Wazina. It felt good to hold her again. I loved how she looked, I loved how loved how I she looked, I loved how again. good to hold her It felt Wazina. I had missed to keep her after I wanted to a weapon. you can get It’s funny how attached she smelled. is An assault rifle the wall over my bed. to put her on I wanted to the States. we returned (296) security blanket. the ultimate an Shooting possibility for generating them. or at least the destroys social bonds, Violence We are getting a dress rehearsal for our mock-deployment in the second act. From Bertolt From in the second act. are getting a dress rehearsal for our mock-deployment We cannot help but present the character of soldier to those she performs with. Neither participa- cannot help but present the character of soldier to those she performs with. articulates its tion nor Brechtian alienation fully addresses the mechanism by which Surrender and role all converge spectator, Actor, might be a more useful term. “proximity” Rather, politics. but unlike Brechtian alienation or Boalian participation, in the body of the audience member, prevent the crit- “act in the moment” and the need to make quick decisions and pacing, touch, reflection can occur for Here, ical distance central to the theatre techniques of those theorists. only fleeting moments or must be deferred until after the conclusion of the show. this does not mean the actor/spectator disappears into the role she finds herself playing (see this does not mean the actor/spectator disappears into the role she finds herself playing Brecht [1964] 1992) to incite political activity. Here, the actor on the stage is the spectator as well (see Boal [1974] the Here, to incite political activity. 1979) even (or perhaps especially) violently, constructs our sense of “us.” By being shown the way in “us.” of constructs our sense violently, even (or perhaps especially) down the social lives of others (by taking their lives), which we would be charged with breaking between squad-mates contingent on cooperative we are also shown how we establish a bond violent acts. physical and Instead we go through the squads of six. names of the others in our newly formed urban spaces: clearing rooms of aggressors, verbal intimacies of securing potentially hostile metal ­ and Wooden and gathering what information we can. detaining non-combatants, Even if we did not name our weapons, we certainly had a chance to hold and smell them. Our and smell them. had a chance to hold we certainly did not name our weapons, Even if we became a unit composed of to the weapons we were given; the soldier bodies became molded in, head cocked, elbows at slight angles, feet Rifle butt against the collarbone, flesh and firearm. then a quick succes- to kill, until you intended positions: low-ready, rifle Two a slight crouch. pull the the safety with your thumb, flip the rifle barrel three inches, sion of movements: raise pull- There were no sound effects, bring the rifle down. put the safety back, trigger three times, intensity of the moment inevitably but the little more than a plastic click, ing the trigger made of firing a gun. imparted the gravity and yet it brings the processes form a new community with that individual, enemy is a refusal to relief into stunning can build communities, which of abjection, mark out a room with two doors on the floor. Our squad “stacks up,” lines up, outside the door, outside the door, lines up, up,” “stacks Our squad mark out a room with two doors on the floor. bodies touching bodies on and on up the end of the line taps the thigh of the next soldier, the soldier at the together, experience of Physical contact becomes the de facto language through which our shared line. again and again rehearsing Into the room we go, this troubling encounter binds us together. an insur shooting at an actor playing a soldier playing our order and path through the space, Our roles diversify when necessary. gent, whispering filming, Fox (who was present during every performance, of prisoners and corpses. select specific and then running sound during the third act) and the actors carefully to actors, participants asked to search bodies are observed to For instance, audience members for tasks. Making physical contact with the actors, and almost always female. be gentle and considerate, are pushed by the searchers from head to toe, hands on their bodies searching for contraband for raising, and not shy away from the crotch, their squad leader to be as thorough as possible okay?” “Is this really the dilemma of, some, politically oriented avantgarde theatre has sought to engage its audi- Augusto Boal, Brecht to ence Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

62 Ball/Bell few rooms. haps youarewoundedandmust becarriedtothehospitalsectionofsetandsitoutlast perhaps youembarrassyourself bylosingyourgunafterputtingitdowntosearchacorpse; per perhaps youbuildareputation inyoursquadforbeingthefirsttoraisegunandshoot; the ethicalsystemtheyhadengaged. A uniquestoryiscreatedforeachindividual’s experience: bers canfullyembodytheiranti-orpro-warpoliticsmove oninstinctonlylatertoconsider participants laughandmakejokes, whileothersretreat furtherintothemselves. Audience mem- look forwaystoresisttherepresentationofaneventweideologically oppose?Someaudience extent ofourparticipation keeps theparticipatingaudiencemembersengaged. We are forcedinaninstanttodecidethe been represented. The minimalismoftheevent prevents itfrombecomingmaudlin, butalso ence memberwithatoygunandanactorwhoknowshowto fallwell. Butweallknowwhathas bloodless, death(perhapsweareinavideogame). The firstkilloftheplay. index fingerssqueezetriggers, andtheactorwith gun followsthroughwithaconvincing, if a gunpopsout, andour90minutesoftrainingkicksin. Thumbs flipsmallplasticswitches, wait, behindher, outofthatpileclothinthecorner(areweanactionmovie?)amanwith our partnersnexttous, andmoveon. Inthenextroomawomanstandsaloneasweenter tle hasoccurredonlyexacerbatesthetension. We stackuponthewallleadingtoexit, tapup is unnerving, ouractionsmoreso. We aretense, waitingforsurprises, andthefactthatsolit- deciding howtorespondthemoansandwhimperingheardfromunderhood. The scene to achair, ahoodoverhisorherhead. Someoneinthesquadsearchesindividualquickly, tiles,” searchcivilians, stayalert, andmoveon. begins inaseparateroom, andeachroomplaysonthesameactions rely onthephysicalcueswehavebeentrainedtouseoryellinorderbeheard. Eachsquad insurgents. The lightingisdimandthesoniclandscapestilldeafening, forcingeveryoneto through doorsandwindinghallwayspopulatedbyactors-cum-civilianscivilians-cum-­ with screenedwindowstothecentralspace(whichobserversusewatchaction)connected for training, thesetisnowrevealedtobeawarrenofporousroomssimulatinganIraqicity, Though easilyignoredduringthefirstact, seeminglikestoredjunkpushedasidetomakespace squad entersmockcombatinthescenicconstructionsthatlineperimeterofspace. gunshots, andexplosionsannounceachangeofscene. Ourtrainingisputintoactionaseach The thunderousanddeafeningloopedsoundsofhelicopterblades, heavymetalmusic, sirens, Act 2:Deployment wants totellyou, “war is awesome”? efficacious politicalprojectmustbearticulatedanew, forindeed, whatdoyousaytoaplaythat emerges betweenthosewhohaveexperiencedwarandnot. Inthisabyss, any of nationalismandpatriotism. Butmoreimportantly, theaudiencewillknowabyssthat will getaninklingofthebondsoldiers, thebondthatmaybeoriginpointforanysense excluded fromthevisualandverbalregimesthatprevailintheatricalmedium. The audience drama situatesitsaudience, wearegivenaccesstoformsoftactileknowledgethatoften new decisions. Though suchreflectiveknowledgebecomesdeferredintheproximateplace for whomtheeventsofshowremaininpast, ordissolveinaflashasneweventsforce playing myself?” (Hartleyn.d.). ReflectionslikeHartley’sbecomeeithertheprivilegeofthose ian, hebegantoaskhimself, “Who amI? Am Iacting?[...] Am Iplayingacharacteroram I took onleadingthetraining, particularlybecausehispersonalityisnotnormallyauthoritar Hartley describesitasa “head fuck” (Hartleyn.d.). Surprisedbytheaggressiveattitudehe ical responses:notafacileidentificationwithcharacterorsituation, butsomethingdeeper. It isacuriousnon-eventinthisworld Our firstroomissmall, notmorethan150squarefeet, andatitscenterapersonsitsbound Surrender isnotpatient. The brainslipsoutofconsciousthought, intoinstinctual, uncrit- — do wegleefullygiveourselvesovertotheplay’sgame, or dowe — there isnosoundeffect, nomakeup, justanaudi - — move in, fireon “hos- — - no, - Josh Fox’s Surrender 63 - words placed in — so too were we in con- — able to kill the other, where discourse is able to kill the other, Figure 7. A participant audience member searches the body of of body the participantA 7. searches member audience Figure Company’s WOW International in insurgent or civilian dead a by (Photo 2008. October Theatre, Ohio The . Surrender Spencer Gordon) with other actors and spectators — -

In another room we enter with our weapons drawn to find two women; one falls immedi- In another room we enter with our weapons drawn to find two women; one falls A subsequent room fea- A subsequent your mouth from standardized phrases like “Room clear!” and later the audience script used in “Room clear!” your mouth from standardized phrases like possible, because you are compelled to speak, hear, and follow commands and follow hear, speak, because you are compelled to not possible, stant contact, both physically and intellectually, with the play itself. There was no distance from There with the play itself. both physically and intellectually, stant contact, As Fox puts it in the interview that follows: which to gauge one’s actions; one simply acted. is like building a world where you can’t see what you’re doing until it’s too late.” “Surrender alter The other woman stands aside, sure by whom. though we aren’t apparently shot, ately, She stares at her guard, us is commanded to guard her. and one of nately distraught and stoic, simply locking eyes and tear may fall down her cheek), not weeping (though one not speaking, be in “To As Emmanuel Levinas explains it, letting the face-to-face encounter speak for itself. It is also the situation of discourse” relation with the other face to face is to be unable to kill. and perhaps are few and far between within Surrender Moments such as this ([1951] 1996:9). Most to them. only occur to those audience participants who are given certain tasks or are open where you are the play keeps you in a place of the time, tured another reminder of inti- tured another upon a man and macy; we come both topless and bed, woman in to The man tries distraught. soldiers move calm the woman, and from in to search them, grabs a gun under the pillow she At once us. and begins firing on response. we fire our guns in so The casual nudity mixed seemed effortlessly with violence the first, sordidly gratuitous at easy choice for a simulation punches, that wants to pull no often sor but then war itself is our squad Now didly gratuitous. leader turns to a young woman look like “You in our squad: we’ll sit down, you’ve been hit, carry We get you out of here.” our wounded compatriot down a short staircase into a basement of the theatre where cots are actors playing med- Two set up. take the wounded ics receive us, inform us of her squad-mate, and send the rest of us prospects, Like most of back into the field. this episode feels the second act, with a fair amount of the hectic, adrenaline that accompanies emergency pumping through leaving us no time to our veins, reflect and only enough to do If we what needs to be done. were in constant physical contact with our fellow squad members Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021 64 Ball/Bell Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by Spencer Gordon) at Internationalduring the intermission WOW Company’s Figure 8. An audience member receives adult beverage a complimentary us throughouttherestofevent. the thirdact. A silentmomentofinteraction, oflockedeyes, functionslikeabeacon, haunting interview withFox, thepolitically incorrectlanguagethatpervadesthecultureof military distasteful ismixedwithanunexpected attraction. And asisapparentduringmoments ofour same timestirringupanintoxicating joviality. Muchlikethesentimentof “war isawesome,” the the mood. midst ofthebattlefield, andwejusthopetheywillkeep thebeerflowingsowecankeepupwith receiving lap-dances, andgropingthedancers. Carnival haseruptedquiteunexpectedlyinthe hoot andtransgressboundaries ence decorum(andthedazeofsensoryoverload)prevents restofusfrombecoming. They characters beyondtheirrolesasoursquadleaders. They becometherowdysoldiersthataudi- ago?) beginarelativelytameburlesqueroutine. Actors portrayingsoldiersbegintoemergeas ers anannouncerintones, “Welcome toKuwaitInternational Airport.” Cansofbeeraredistrib- are replacedbythejubilantpop/hip-hopofOutkast’s2004hit, “Hey Ya!” Overtheloudspeak- Spilling outintothecentralwarehousespaceagain, heavymetalmusicandhelicoptersounds Intermission and suddenly, withalltheothersquads, backintothewarehousewhereourtraininghadbegun. ago. As thesoundtrackbeginsloopingagain, weareleddownanotherhallthroughacurtain, bodies remainengaged, readytorespondwithmusclememoryweacquiredonlyanhourortwo no distance, andevenifthisisamomentofphysicalcalm, ourmindsarestillspinningand we havehadtodososincetheactbegan. Hardlyanyonespeaksorseemstowantto. We have through thewindscreenofahumvee. Oursquadleaderasksustotakestock, thefirstmoment screen televisioninfrontofuswewatchgreen-and-blacknight-visionfootagedesertshot around acorner, downasetofstairs. Oursquadleaderasksustotakeaseat, andonaflat- sweat isjustonemoreinescapablephysicalsensationtheplayinduces. We headoutoncemore, but ourmuscleshavenotunclenchedsincethesimulationbeganalmostanhourago. Infact, By nowwearesweatingprofusely The crudelanguageofthesoldiers canmakevisitorsextremelyuncomfortable, while at the — telling over-sexed jokes, homophobicallyteasing oneanother, — Surrender. The not thattheexercisehasbeenparticularlystrenuous, (mock) warfare. nomical commandsnecessitatedby ­others inoursquadbeyondtheeco- the playprovidestoconversewith walk. This isthefirstopportunity they aredrinkingbeerontheside- stop towonderifit’sokaythat Manhattan street fresh airandthecalmofasmall momentarily leavethebuildingfor ers gotintermission,” becausethey As Foxpointsout, “only thesmok- fix theyleftintheircivilianclothes. gratis toaddictsclamoringforthe members, andcigaretteshandedout uted tothenow-veteranaudience (weren’t theyinuniformsamoment the warehouse, andtwowomen bers soonformsatthecenterof cle ofactorsandaudiencemem- out tobeahalf-timeshow. A cir Inside, the “intermission” turns — only afeweven - Josh Fox’s Surrender 65 - - - our hallucination is and his inability to — —

and the word appears in readable white type in the right half of the screen. and the word appears in readable white type in the right half of the screen. —

“you wake up, you go home, and dinner’s on the table” and dinner’s you go home, “you wake up, —

Within minutes we are instructed to line up in order to begin boarding our plane home, that our plane home, order to begin boarding to line up in minutes we are instructed Within which now includes images of , of Friends There is something a bit off about this episode developed dramatic karaoke by placing artist, York–based a New Wintersberger, Sanford is, to sit on a set of bleachers in the far side of the theatre. There are almost too many of us, but of us, are almost too many There theatre. in the far side of the on a set of bleachers to sit is, but to touch, continuing knowing any better, squeeze together not we are no chairs, since there pragmatic slapping than the focused and tired smiles rather casual postures and this time with hallways of the second act. of thighs in the dark Act 3: Coming Home walking us through a attendants stand downstage left and right, women dressed as flight Two on the bleachers among the audi- The soldier/actors scattered pre-flight safety demonstration. each other as our in-flight enter needling observers remain boisterous, ence participants and plays at deafening of Friends a monitor above the audience an episode tainment begins: on from reality that can often char audience to return to the disengagement allowing the volume, and distance of the warehouse, nearly the One soldier walks far upstage, acterize daily life. and pulls a cigarette from his uni- He dismantles the smoke detector mimes entering a lavatory. the he lashes out at overcoming him, Emotion he begins to lose his cool. it, As he smokes form. toilet and sink. and we soldier is checking on his friend in the lavatory, Another war dead between the scenes. the flight attendants have moved on to telling us about the in-flight because must be in the air, a nice contrast to the nervous breakdown chipper, They are certainly shopping opportunities. sneak- and then who is that fellow in the kaffiyeh taking place in the lavatory beyond them, of the dead More photographs from the simulation. ing downstage? He looks like an insurgent The man approaches and stabs one of the flight attendants in the even less Friends. and dying, rivulets of red pour but now thick until this point, The whole evening has been bloodless neck. unaware that she is the vic- She continues her presentation, down the flight attendant’s side. Another soldier has noticed tim of what appears to be a terrorist attack. He swirls to shoot him. prepared yelling at the insurgent, He raises his gun, apparently. his too, who this time reacts, shooting the second flight attendant, and begins firing, around erratically, the ensemble rushes to the The sound of gunfire also breaks the scene and falling to the floor. celebratory Intermixed performances of the stage for a tautly choreographed dance interlude. of episodic meditations on war and coming home and the demented create a surreal progression audience par and giving the proscenium staging, that compose a theatrical play given a typical shirtless and One of our squad leaders, distance. some sense of theatrical at long last, ticipants, of returning to the telling us about his experience addresses us directly, covered in black paint, home front teach us chants Soon cheerleaders (soldiers with pom-poms) have taken his place to find peace. that will be used throughout the rest of “dramatic karaoke” and acclimate us to the system of the act. recite dra- a karaoke-style teleprompter in the hands of everyday people and asking them to performing dramatic karaoke explore the partici- His videos of people matic or poetic texts. articulate it. pants’ experience with the media and highlight how they discover the text as they the left half of the the screen is divided in half: on in his video Surprise (2006), For instance, some uncomfortably fidgeting and looking screen we see a steady shot on a crowd of people, After a long pause the speakers broad- a black rectangle. and on the right is toward the camera, “Surprise!” cast, as they articulate the word and as it The teleprompting literally surprises the filmed speakers, explains of his technique, Wintersberger As surprises the video’s audience. is also hard to throw off once embraced. Its macho rhetoric, for men and women alike, conveys and women alike, for men rhetoric, Its macho to throw off once embraced. is also hard a war. or even an actual gun, without the need of belonging Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

66 Ball/Bell intermission in Internationalintermission WOW Company’s Figure 9. Audience members are directed in the use of the play’s dramatic karaoke system following Spencer Gordon) true andearnest. The deadsoldier’s sisterbeginssobbingoverthe audiencemember/corpse, deliver aeulogy. The performanceissimpleanduninflected, and, forthisveryreason, sounds over him, whilehisfamily approachestomourn. A fourthaudiencemember iscalleduponto oke isnecessaryforthisrole. The audiencememberisinstructedtolieonabench, aflagdraped tling ononefinalname, anotheraudiencemember, who “madetheultimatesacrifice.” Nokara- She rattlesoffaboiler-plate congratulationsbeforeherdingmebacktothebleachers andset- audience memberuptoreceiveanaward. Then another, myown: “Gelsey Bell, comeondown.” one scene, meanttoevokeaNationalGuardawardsceremony, adisinterestedsoldiercallsan Once onstage, theaudiencememberwatchesamonitor facingthestageforhisorherlines. In front begins. of followingtheprompts, thefirstofseveralscenes reintegration intolifeonthehome acts asaconductortokeepsusevenmoretightlycontrolled. Onceweproveare­ process isnotunlikelearningphrasesduringbasiccombattraining; onlynowtheteleprompter words thatappearonthemonitorabovethem: “cat,” “pig,” “gay,” “awesome,” andsoon. The same monitorthatshowedFriends earlier. The cheerleaders directustorepeatafterthemthe In eachofthescenes, audiencemembersinuniformare calleduptoplaytheprotagonists. Fox interweavesthistechniquewiththescriptedplayactors enactonstage, usingthe in flux;renewingitselfwitheachrendition. (n.d.) disbelief. Ourfocusisontheeffectofmediumasmuchitsmessage. Itsstructureis discovery ofthetextissharedbetweenyouandeveryoneelse. There isnosuspensionof etc. You arereadingtoyourselfasmuchthepeoplearoundyouandcamera. The sent onlyyourself. There isnopressuretobeentertaining, cool, logical, interesting, sexy voice mightrevealsomethingaboutyou. [...] When doingDramaticKaraokeyourepre- While doingit, youarenolongerresponsibleforwhatsayalthoughthetoneofyour Surrender. The Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by capable Josh Fox’s Surrender 67 enters from upstage, out enters from upstage, — . The Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by (Photo 2008. October Theatre, Ohio The . Surrender . The Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by (Photo 2008. October Theatre, Ohio The . Surrender playing his girlfriend — Spencer Gordon) Spencer Figure 10. An audience member in desert camouflage fatigues plays a corpse desertin member audience corpse a fatigues plays camouflage An 10. Figure International of act third the during battlefield the from returned newly Company’s WOW Spencer Gordon) Figure 11. An audience member reads her lines from the dramatic karaoke karaoke dramatic the from lines her reads member audience An 11. Figure furry Outlandish ward. hospital a in set scene a during teleprompter International of act third the during disorientation her indicate costumes Company’s WOW - ­version this repeated this repeated —

An audience member is again An audience The next audience member is The Price Is Right’s “come on called to the stage called to the and his untrained delivery comes off as They talk about their relationship, of his line of sight. for whom it whom intimacy has become problematic, like someone for emotionally distanced, before has too often in recent memory been associated with the reassuring touch of a colleague Their conversation turns toward the battle or the disquieting sensation of searching a corpse. “I to hear: positive as the teleprompter gives our soldier the lines his girlfriend has been waiting She becomes giddy as his amorous professions I love you.” “I love you, “Say it again!” love you.” repeat and pile up on one another. her own words switching from switching from her own words Spanish before the scene English to dance number ends and another segue. serves as a ritual is beginning to feel like a ritual is beginning to ­horror-film nightmare of woman A middle-aged down!” and sits indescends the bleachers to her. From the wheelchair offered upstage others in wheelchairs in the furry, each dressed approach, of athletic team costumes over-sized a pig wearing mascots: a white tiger, This a polar bear. and a shark, a veil, menagerie helps her into a chip- munk costume before beginning to accost her verbally with the horrors She is told that that might follow. she is about to lose her leg and that her benefits will be denied if she shows any signs of mental illness. An actor places a prop of a severed The dutiful audience arm in her lap. member recites a monologue and her delivery becomes punctuated by real tears that begin to stream down The scene shifts from the her face. individual monologue to an inter action between the mass of seated audience members and the audience member onstage: we administer a psychological exam to our compa- each question she responds To triot. in the negative and soon we are able “You’re to deliver the happy ending. - and the shaken spec we read, fine,” tator returns to her seat. handed a beer, called to the stage, and directed to sit at the foot of a The man is seated fac- bed upstage. as a topless woman ing the teleprompter, Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

68 Ball/Bell Spencer Gordon) the third act of International WOW Company’s Figure 12. A lovers’ quarrel degenerates into a nightmarish reenactment of the abuses at Abu Ghraib during another actorashisdemonstrationmodel. An actressenterstotellmeaboutherexperiences A maninawhitecoatenters, trainingmeforthejob, tellingmehowtogutasteerusing it takesmeamomenttorealize. The othertellsmetheyhavefoundajobfor which Ieattherawfleshofananimal. Oneinterviewerbeginsspeakingtomein Arabic, though our trainingin Act One. the weapon, thistimewithfullsoundeffects. The GenevaConventionshadnotbeenpartof dead insurgentappearsdownstage, mycommandingofficertellsmetofinishthejobandIfire far upstageandinawayIamthankfulthatgettoperformsomethinghaverehearsed. A half- squad leaderappears, handingmemyrifle, andsendingmebackintocombat. We cleararoom I ambytheirsneeringquestions(“Well, youcanatleastmakeaspreadsheet, right?”). Soon, my They seemasputoffbymyscriptedanswers(“Ihadproblemsfeelingnormalatlastjob”) als. Itisajobinterviewandthesterndemeanorofmyinterlocutorssuggestsitnotgoingwell. bers aroundmearechanting. Iamsoonsittingacrossfromtwoprofessionallydressedindividu- implied fantasiesofsexualrole-playinggoneawry. Abu Ghraib lence, anddomination. The scenetakesontheaspectofacouple’stherapysessionheldat pyramid asksabouthisintimacyissues, abouthisneedtobeincontrol, hisinterestinsex, vio- to thereturnedsoldier/spectator, whofinallynoticesthenightmarearoundhim. Thehuman ing anovel. Another enterswearingleatherbondagegear, andsoonthehumanpyramidspeaks eral ofthemintoahumanpyramid. A fullynakedwomanentersdownstageleft, andsits, read- lovers. Actors dressedforotherscenes(someinfatigues, oneasaflightattendant)formsev- with blackhoodsovertheirheads, areledbyotheractorsintothespacestilloccupied The interviewisnotover. Ireadmylinesfromtheteleprompter, describingadreamin Suddenly it’smynameontheteleprompter: “Jim Ball, comeondown,” theaudiencemem - Gradually, half-nakedmenandwomen, wearingorangewhentheywearanyclothingatall, — the intertwiningoferoticsandtraumaticviolenceinhabitingstagethrough Surrender. The Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by — as abutcher. Josh Fox’s Surrender 69 are we still — are replaced — the words ricocheting the words ricocheting — the incessant questioning that can structure activism — is a piece of theatre that leaves room for multiple experiences, expectations, and expectations, multiple experiences, is a piece of theatre that leaves room for

? In our proximity to the lived experience of soldiering, precedent approaches to pro- ? In our proximity to the lived experience of soldiering,

why Blackout. The monitors light up and we, the audience, begin to speak in unison, a series of speak in unison, begin to audience, the up and we, The monitors light Blackout. without the aid of a tele- is called to the stage to play himself, Jason Christopher Hartley “What was the war like?” to Jason and asks, the mother of the bride turns Finally, Surrender ducing political activity first-person statements: “This is what I want, this is where I want to be.” These begin to take on These begin to be.” is where I want to this is what I want, “This statements: first-person - the existentially con designed to reground or self-help mantra of a daily affirmation the aspect mouth spoken enacts an ambiguous dance in the Every phrase fused. It is the last speech we are asked to give. to repugnant to familiar. from alien to comforting suf- He is aloof, wedding rehearsal dinner. He finds himself at his girlfriend’s sister’s prompter. of us called up previously inability to connect with this world as each fering from the same Her sister that he is distracted. His girlfriend can see enactments. portrayed in our prompted The unfazed. of course, He is, a car accident and witnessing carnage. tells a story about seeing facing us; their inebriation begins singing to the guests who are arrayed mother of the bride of rushing wind and the actors tense and There is a sound but also their joy. becomes apparent, an open window depressurization is pulling them towards lean as though a sudden on the plane? Act 4: Afterhours audience participants put The of the show being over. The fourth act sneaks in under the cloak Most people stick around and chat them cheap beer. their civilian clothes back on and Fox sells with cast members and other participants until it is time for easily mingling with each other, an alterna- , essential part of the structure of Surrender This period is an the theatre to close. the audience though post-show talk back, tive to the traditional and notoriously disappointing flows more easily without the pressure of pre- The conversation is never informed of it as such. As Fox explains of dialogue and political efficacy. sumptions regarding the relationship between And if we That’s what should happen. the theatre to exist. “[T]hat’s where I want the fourth act, we would have been.” could have been there all night, Hartley’s inability to answer the ques- with insistent questions that belie the gaps that remain. In the takes center stage as the very dilemma war has produced. “What was the war like?” tion, of being told what to do melts away as we reclaim our all the frustration and/or safety final act, Rather than falling conversation. and actions in the space of after-show postures, own voices, Surrender into the delusion that conversation creates a community to solve all of our problems, that forces us to feel intimately the gestures that can produce community in the same gestures rend it apart. castrating bulls, and to my right and left I realize two others are cooking meat on hot plates and meat on hot plates two others are cooking and left I realize and to my right bulls, castrating by permeated the space The smell has fully of the audience. on a clothesline in front hanging it return to the bleachers. the time I each individ- Its framework suggests the ways in which meaning resides uniquely in insights. Given the rigid scripts of military training and making it a concretely dialogic experience. ual, set of pos- individual agency finds its outlet from within a clearly demarcated dramatic karaoke, is just as telling as how people decide to negotiate them. What those possibilities are sibilities. the the ritual utterances of eulogies, exposes the scaffolding of military order-words, Surrender of lovers and the intimate dialogue job interviews, official scripts of mental examinations and The role of the theatre as a space for con- audience. by placing them within the mouths of the and names the meat of the piece. chews, one shoots, templation is exponentially enhanced when internally and in conversation, the memories of embodied action to spur active reflection With Either when one is placed the proximate participatory drama continues as a kind of haunting. turns in a situation that strays far from one’s habitual identity or when a theatrical situation it is impossible to ignore how one is performing and then to out to be disconcertingly familiar, ask Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

70 Ball/Bell Wintersberger, Sanford. n.d. “Dramatic KaraokeMenu” and “More About DramaticKaraoke.” Sanfordw Levinas, Emmanuel. (1951)1996.PhilosophicalWritings Basic . Eds. Adriaan T. Peperzak, SimonCritchley, International WOW Company. 2008. PressreleaseforSurrender. Hartley, JasonChristopher. n.d. “Jason ChristopherHartley:Infantryman, New York Army National Hartley, JasonChristopher. 2005. Just Another Solider: A Year ontheGroundinIraq. New York: Harper. Brecht, Bertolt. (1964)1992. “Alienation EffectsinChinese Acting.”on Theatre, InBrecht ed. andtrans. John Boal, Augusto. (1974)1979. Theatre oftheOppressed. Trans. Charles A. andMaria-OdiliaLealMcBride. New References BELL: Sowhenyougotoplays thatfeellikeapoliticaltheatre, doyoufeellikeit’sstill aplay? redundancy. Apolitical theatreisaneutered, completelyineffectual pieceofnonsense. society inordertoreflectupon thesocietythatyoulivein. Sotherefore, political theatreisa context orelseit’sworthless. That’s whatthetheatreis. The theatre existsatthecenterof FOX: Butit’s notabout “ends badly” withdrama. Dramaabsolutelyhastoinvolvethe social BELL: ...andtragedyendsbadly, soprobablyjustice isinvolved... definition ofdrama? There’sonlytwokindsofplaysright? Comedyandtragedy... that’s notpartofthething, thedefinitionofdrama, though, hastodowith... Well, whatisthe other thing. The definitionofacomedyisthat people getmarriedattheend, soyouknow, FOX: Well, comediesarenotaboutjustice. Comediesareaboutlove. Sothey’reabout a totally BELL: Why notcomedies? play FOX: No, ofcoursenot, becausethat’swhatI’mtryingtosay:thedefinitionofagreat BELL: Sowouldyoucallyourtheatreovertlypoliticaltheatre? somewhere, thepoliticsof America. It’s likewejustsuckeditout, likewithasyringe. And thenit’sinthatlittlesyringesomelab some reasonwe’veextractedthepoliticsoutofourart, andthat’swhatisdestroyingtheatre. have anygreatplaysgoingonrightnow.in Americawasagreatplay, Imean, Angels butfor There isn’tasingleone, fromtheScottishplaytoDeathofaSalesman. That’s whywedon’t mean there’snogreatplaythat’severbeenwrittenthatdidn’tincludethepoliticsofitstime. FOX: Well, Idon’tthinkyoucandoaplay ever thatdoesn’tinvolvethepoliticsofitstime. I “Oh, thisisjustathemethatkeepscomingupwithalloftheshows?” GELSEY BELL:DoyoufeellikethathelpedwhatbecameSurrender ? Ordoesitseemlike, that —war ethos. ferent productionsabouttheIraq War oraboutpost-9/11 “war politics,” andthingslike JOSH FOX: Ineverseemtogetawayfrom[war plays]. IthinkI’vedonenineortendif- was conductedon9February2009inNew York City. The followinginterviewwithJoshFox, theartisticdirectorofInternational WOW Company, Talking withJosh Fox (30 August 2010). (30 August .com. www.sanfordw.com/Karaoke_menu.htm, www.sanfordw.com/Karaoke/about/more_about.htm and RobertBernasconi. Bloomington:IndianaUniversityPress. Guard.” Willett, 91–99. New York: Hilland Wang. York: Theatre CommunicationsGroup. — any playthat’snotacomedy Big Think. http://bigthink.com/jasonchristopherhartley(26 August 2010). — involves that. Josh Fox’s Surrender 71 - I always and I — — all of which are out of — how does that work — Taylor Mac, Spalding Gray. I’m of a really traditional mind I’m of a really Spalding Gray. Mac, Taylor — is so unique in the sense that there is all the is so unique in the sense that there is all because Surrender — you know, not to be at the theatre, ’cause you get to be a junky not to be at the theatre, you know, —

There’s the one kind of narrative arc that starts someplace and ends further away There’s the one kind of narrative arc that was sitting at home, and I put on a movie on this huge flat-screen TV, completely overwhelmed TV, on this huge flat-screen and I put on a movie was sitting at home, and I was watching this movie and I started to click I sat there by it; it was not pleasant at all. I wanted to go to the next window. “What the fuck?” and I went, I had no mouse, on my knee. it still is linear, So while Surrender “Go! Different place!” I was like, I was bored with the film. where you can walk into any room; it’s definitely struc- It’s not this thing takes place over time. to absolutely move people’s bodies and brains where you In the internet society you have tured. at all. , Surrender nothing to do with the military, It has forcefully. want them to go, elaborate. BELL: Explain, elevates to theatre formance art and that with a catharsis, is an arc, and one of the rules theatre has rules, I believe about this. but unless you have that it to be, and crazy and fucked-up as you want can be as schizophrenic it And I also believe that do theatre. you didn’t near the end, somewhere, thunderous moment, that doesn’t mean that the classics And the idea of the themes of our era. has to involve at least aren’t relevant. can translate them into a new context. BELL: Because you War... There’s like four: Poverty, political issues. And there are only so many FOX: normally connected... Which are BELL: always used to say there’s They mankind’s struggle for justice. it’s about of course, Well, FOX: usually. out of three, and you only need two and Justice, God, only three things in drama: Love, BELL: So I’m curious how and the way the first and second act are working participation stuff, are? How does that help you with the arc? towards what your traditional ideas of theatre the model of , the idea of Surrender right? Because this is what’s interesting, see Well, FOX: is based on the idea that our narrative forms are changing. , Surrender mean our society’s narrative forms? You BELL: and the movies television, daily diet used to be novels, our Well, FOX: you could read I mean universe and you jump into them. They exist in their own your control. really wanted to be a serious deconstructionist. if you the book out of order, but most people don’t anyway. And some books tell you to do that, BELL: Now our what they’re doing is exactly what’s happening on the internet. Essentially FOX: move We Our daily diet is the internet. movies] at all. television, daily diet is not that [novels, in the- So here’s the challenge: because we want. through it with whatever associative pattern in conflict with are or formats, those two forms, atre you have to have that thing at the end, each other. hit the bat and then it has to go on this parabolic arc think of it as hitting a homerun: it has to gone You’ve then you know you’re there. somewhere, and once it gets to that to somewhere, our brains are working now totally But with the internet, over the left-field wall or whatever. weirded- I was so fidgety and the first weekend, Surrender When I went home from differently. out and depressed FOX: No it’s not. Fundamentally, it’s not. It might be performance art. performance It might be it’s not. Fundamentally, No it’s not. FOX: interesting... BELL: Okay, on useful as the commercials as interesting and art is also about I find that performance FOX: are moments when per I think there entertaining sometimes. Wonderfully Bowl. the Super Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

72 Ball/Bell BELL: It’sinaweb. newspaper wasthere. So yourmoralityorphilosophy... be abletodotherapeifyourwife waswatching. You wouldn’tbeabletopillage thetownif only subjectisthecommunity unit, thefamily. You havetoties, becauseyouwouldnever burn downavillage, thenextbeastatesmanatdinner. Individualsaretoofragmented. The a rapistoneday, thenextdaygohometohiswifeand kidsandbenicetothem, thenextdaygo The individualisapoorphilosophicalsubject Theweleit thatIwasinterestedindenialandhesaid, “No, it’snotdenial. It’sfragmentation.” ily allgoesintothebathroomandrealizeswhat’sgoingon, butnobodyspeaksaboutit. Itold for anhourandahalf, andeventuallytheycomeoutof thebathroom, andonebythefam- counter onthem, lockstheminthebathroomandthen proceedstohaveherChristmasparty in Iraq. Sherefusestoletthemgettheannouncement out. Shepullsagunfrombehindthe cult information. Soldierscometotelltheownerofavideo storethatherdaughter’sbeenkilled if you’vereadthatplay[TheExpenseofSpiritbyJoshFox];it’sabouthowpeopledenyverydiffi - been interestedinfragmentationofpersonalityordenial fan. We hadseveraltalks, andIreadhisbook, whichwasallabouttheseloveletters. I’vealways analyzed theirloveletterstowives. HesawYou BelongtoMeinGermanyandbecameabig finally gottheirdue, youknow? Theseguyshadnorelationshipswiththeirwives. [Theweleit] ravaging differenttownsthroughoutEurope, andthenbecametheSSin World War II. They after World War Iandcontinuedfighting World War Iallthewaythrough1920sand’30s, losopher whowroteabouttheFreikorps, thebandofGermansoldierswhorefusedtodisband phi- a bookbySlavojŽižek. German OrifyoureadKlaus Theweleit’s MaleFantasies —this Because soldiersenjoyittoo. What isenjoymentawholeothermagazineinandofitself, or FOX: That wasthewholepoint. Iftheydidn’thaveagoodtime, theyweren’tgoingtogetit. see peopleenjoyingthemselvessomuch. BELL: It’sinthere. And oneofthethingsIfoundreallyinterestingaboutSurrender ing word people played MacbeththreetimesandIdirectedit. There isawarriorthingthatlivesinsideofmost WOW company’s dailydiet, youknow, andthat’smilitarytraining. That’s martialarts. And I training. IdidSuzukitrainingforsevenfuckingyears, andItaughtit, anditwaspartofthe me anywhere, Iwannastaywiththeseguysandhavethisrifle.” MybackgroundisinSuzuki mind andkillingpeopleinmymind, andIwasjustreadytoinvadeIran. Iwas, youknow, send it’s afascistsystemtopromotedemocracy. Hesaid, “Here Iamgoingintotheseroomsinmy guys, andyouhavetheseriflesuniforms, andyouoperatelikeamachine. Jasonsaid Against War, andthenIgotintotrainingwithJason, andyou’reintherewiththissquadofnine comes fromthetrainingwithJason. Iwasoneofthesteeringcommitteemembers Theatres some bullshit, becauseIcouldn’tfigureoutwhyitwascalledSurrender. The genesisoftheidea to theend, andthenIsaid, “But thekickerisit’sgottabecalledSurrender.” Ithinktoldhim Jason whenIcalledhimupandtoldtheidea. Itoldhimthewholeideafrombeginning ingful tohavecalleditSurrender, butthiswasthemajorthingthatIworriedaboutwith order tofight, whichisalsointeresting. Ihavenotfiguredoutallthewaysinwhichitismean- ing yourfreewillasmuchpossible in thefuckingtheatrekillotherpeople, likewithinanhourandahalf. Butit’saboutprovok- act FOX: Ithastodowithfreewill. It’sabout theultimatesin BELL: Ohyeah, pleasedo. FOX: Iwill. This isTDR, Icangiveitallaway. — the worstthingyoucandoiskillanotherperson. It’samazinghowquicklyallthepeople — — men andwomen but it’sinthere. — and whenyoutapintothat, it’sprimal — you havetosurrender. Everysoldierhastosurrenderin — a poorcarrierofmorality. An individualcan be — — or atleasttheultimateheinous “expense ofspirit.” Idon’tknow — primal isadumbsound- is howyou Josh Fox’s Surrender 73 -

. I’ve always been convinced that there’s a very fine line between soldier and actor. a very fine line between soldier and actor. I’ve always been convinced that there’s . Surrender derous band of amoral crazy people, but then I got on the inside of the soldiers, all the pro- but then I got on the inside of the soldiers, derous band of amoral crazy people, So unless you can figure out like you wouldn’t believe. Gay testers looked like a bunch of fags. of people to and another group how to get one group of people to think those guys aren’t gay, you’re not going to get anywhere or worse, murderers, or think those people aren’t meatheads, with this. BELL: So are you trying to make a place of conversation between those two communities? have had two more soldiers sign up and join the cast We well there has been. Of course, FOX: of and out of control, anger, There’s a similar kind of lust for life, These thrill-seeking people. my drama teacher told me that there I was an actor, In high school when in need of structure. and the maximum was a soldier going into battle and were studies of adrenaline levels in people, I believe I believe. Which was an actor on opening night. just below that, the next beneath it, is like Surrender I thought this was interesting. right? So a web, ...is held together in FOX: but see, The observers until it’s too late. see what you’re doing world where you can’t building a quickly. the observers really you forget experience. different Very observing after participating. really interesting BELL: It was want everybody participating.” We any observers. don’t want “We At first we thought, FOX: Because the number have observers.” can sell more tickets if we We no. “No, Then I realized, because those shits are to buy, by the amount of rifles that we were able of tickets was limited or immedi- forget the observers, really interesting how you just completely But it’s expensive. are total pussies. ately think the observers gotten involved? Have the observers ever about that. BELL: I was wondering sat for the project, who was the dramaturg Jenness, Morgan there was one time... Well FOX: I would have told course if they had, And of who wanted to have a revolt. next to a few people don’t you this is very rude, you’re interrupting the performance, “Please, them very politely, . tried to overthrow Surrender No one has please sit down.” audience, know how to be a theatre and Jason at first got do anything, refused to who refused to do push-ups, There was one dude fucking my shit up “you’re he was like, threw him out, And then basically really mad at him. And I pulled him outside. and then basically sent him to me. dude,” the principal’s office? To BELL: (Laughing) I am I’m civilian authority. I’m the Defense Department. I’m Donald Rumsfeld. No. FOX: “What the hell are you doing?” So I took him outside: This is the way the army works. Mr. Fox. and I was like, would happen to me if I refused,” I wanted to know what “Well He was like, be on KP duty. You’d would lose your paperwork. We here’s what would happen to you. “Well, will be on You is to go through basic training. The easiest way to get through basic training gonna sit out here for a lit- so we’re tries to find your file, while somebody KP duty for a year, a complete fuck- “You’re And I basically was saying, and I’m gonna call you an idiot.” tle while, He why did you come to this show? Didn’t you know what was going to happen?” ing idiot, “Don’t but I was reaming him: in love with this guy, and I was very idealistic, was about 19, What’s going to try to take on this system? You’re you understand the way the world works? the activist community. was addressing what I felt to be a gap in Surrender wrong with you?” unwillingness. and I hate the naiveté or the idealism and the I’ve been an activist my whole life, people in A couple stopped talking to me? War] Against [Theatres THAW know people in You some were more real- Not all of them, “Why are you working with soldiers?” thought, THAW I think you’re “No, And I was like, don’t need soldiers.” “We but a few were like, istic than that, When (laughing). I think we would get invaded by Canada if we didn’t have soldiers” wrong. was that from the outside soldiers look like a mur I got involved with Jason what I realized Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

74 Ball/Bell JAMES BALL:Sothat wasn’tthereinthebeginning, theparticipation element. audience playingkeyroles.” works?” Idon’tremember exactlythemoment, butitoccurredtome “Oh, wehavetothe ing aroundwiththatonenight andaskedme, “Would youreadthisthingwithmeandsee ifit doing poemsthatpeoplewould read. Hewasthebrotherofmyroommate, and sohewasmess- FOX: Myfriend Sanford[Wintersberger] hadbeendoingtheseartexperimentswherehewas BELL: So, wheredidthedramatickaraokestuffcome from? all night, wewouldhavebeen. where Iwantthetheatretoexist. That’s whatshould happen. And ifwecouldhavebeenthere discussion free. That waskey, because peopledidn’tleave. We didn’tletpeopleknowbutthat’s Q&A, becausenobodywillstayforthat. What wewantedtodowasopenthebar:beeradollar, FOX: It’swrittenintotheproposalthatthere’safourthact. We didn’twanttohaveaformal BELL: Becauseyoureallywantabeerafterwards. hours later. out thereforatleastanotherhour. It’safour-hour fuckingshowandpeople wouldleavefive The fourthact, whichwedon’ttellyouisthefourthact, iswhenIopenthebar. Peoplehung the extenttowhichpeoplewalkoutofitgoing “War isawesome.” As fuckedupasthatistosay. FOX: We actuallysaid, “War isawesome.” Ithinktheextenttowhichthingissuccessful BELL: Ithinksomepeopleinterpreteditthatway. what theywanted. They stilldidn’tgetmesaying, “War isbad.” Which Iwasn’tgoingtosay. people togetreallyfuckedupbythefirstparts, andthensortofgetwhattheywanted I thinkthattherewasthiscrossoverthing. That waswhatIintendedanyway. Iwantedtheatre through werereallyshockedbyacts1and2, andthentheygotwhatexpectedinact3. So shocked byacts1and2, butwerereallyexcitedbyact3. And thenthetheatrecrowdthatcame came through. And sothereweretwodifferentarcs. The soldiersandtheirfamilieswerenot created awholenewaudienceforus. And thentherewerealsoalotofsoldiersandfamilywho think, youngerpeoplethatIhadn’treached, thathadn’tseen WOW companybefore. And that did, theygotpissed. Buttherewasawholenewaudiencethatgotinvented. An audienceof, I hole, we’renotdoingthis.” Idon’tknow. Buttheydidn’tcomeout, byandlarge, andwhenthey there. They wanted...theywerescared. OrIdon’tknowwhy. Ortheywerelike, “Josh isanass- NTUSA, allofmyfriends:didn’tcome. They justdidn’tcome. They justdidnotwanttobe Conni’s Avant GardeRestauranttoChuckMee, to Anne [Bogart]andtheSITIcompany, FOX: Normally, thewholecommunity oftheatrecomesoutandseeseachother’swork. From BELL: Okay. (Laughter.) FOX: ’Causethey’repussies. BELL: Why doyouthinktheywerescared? they werescared. my WOW companyaudiencecome. Ihadveryfewothertheatrecompanypeoplecome. Ithink see theatre. The theatreaudience, byandlarge, inNew York, rejectedSurrender. Ididnothave crowd FOX: There aretwodifferentarcsat play inSurrender thatcrossover. Oneforthesoldier York audience? BELL: What abouttheaudience?DidyoumakepieceforaspecificliberalNew and soldiers. there’s asimilaraddictiontocertainchemicalprocessinsidethebrainthatunitesactors — and wedidhaveafairamountofsoldierssoldiers’relativespeoplewhonever — sort of Josh Fox’s Surrender 75 - - no matter how no matter — have their on nights and they have their off nights. their off nights. on nights and they have have their —

if it starts going off, it’s very hard to get it back. [For me] every night it has to hit, I every night it has to hit, [For me] it’s very hard to get it back. if it starts going off, —

great they are, and they’re always great and they’re always are, great they to drive a U-haul around a race- it’s like trying a 35-member ensemble, And when you have track , Surrender With notes every night. I give I am there every night, that. drive people crazy with because that first act would fuck It always happened and it was always it never didn’t happen. There was no way to get through the well it was always the second act. act, the second you up, get through it without being couldn’t You happening to you. second act without something those songs play at intermission. and then when the room changing, being sweaty, affected, Only the smokers got inter give out cigarettes. We an intermission. don’t really give you We out- soldiers, about 20 smokers, But still there are get to go outside. because they mission, “Why are and they were like, on the street, smoking a cigarette a beer, side in uniform drinking And that beer tastes so in uniform!” “Because you’re beer on the street?” we allowed to drink I’m drinking three beers , a show! But during Surrender I never drink during every night. good, But I want to do the show again. and I run the sound! I gotta be on it. before I go in and act, Surrender So anyway, I think the fun part of it is the whole point. It’s really so much fun to do. All the roles are designed to be No matter what they did. the audience never failed. never failed, There were two people who refused to it’s better. not, So if they’re or not. read either deadpan, they were both guys that were at the theatre in the mid- And go through all of act 2 and act 3. because when So I thought that was really interesting dle of having fights with their girlfriends. anyone. you’re just not going to take orders from you’re having a fight with your girlfriend, I lectured for the one guy who had planned to refuse. Except no one refused. But beyond that, you’d be stuck “Well, “So what would happen to me?” him out in the hallway and he was like, doing pushups and all this shit.” be You’d in the corner. be wearing a dunce cap You’d in jail. So I stuck him on the other side from so put me in jail.” “So? I won’t do pushups, And he says, choosing people I walk around during the first act, the observers and I would fuck with him. First to hold. So I’d walk by and I would give him different things and doing a whole lot of shit. Then I took the broom away and I gave him a piece of I walked by and I gave him a broom. And he’s sitting there hold- it was this lump of nothing. And It’s broken.” “Fix this. machinery: ing this metal thing that I had found. way. BELL: So he surrendered even more in a and then Jason went over off in act 1, And then! Jason was ready to tear his fuckin’ head FOX: “That guy is really cool! and was like, and he came back to me, and talked to him during act 2, score one for you know, So, I love that guy.” he was just playing that part. He didn’t refuse, I do not remember that guy’s name; I would problems. for solving peace! For communication, I would fuck with you fell into this mindset. It was weird because like to know his name... “In that door! Go to “Where’s the bathroom?” me, People ask the audience for some reason. it In the ensemble also, But it makes life easier. Barking at people for no reason. the right!” “Can you move Instead of, “Smith! Police up your shit!” became really easy for the cast to say, that please?” BALL: Could you talk about why you decided to make it participatory? Map Fund and they had given me I was applying for a Rockefeller to be honest, Well FOX: I have to “It can’t possibly be my turn again. like, and I was three Map grants in four years, can’t refuse.” I’m gonna make them an offer they come up with something that’s really crazy. I survive off of those things and the small amounts of Basic survival. So it challenged me. money But then, . is really not enough to do Surrender which money that they’re able to give, stand or appreciate was how the production would simply never fail. Actors simply never fail. production would was how the stand or appreciate FOX: I can’t remember. I can’t remember. FOX: came in? and then the third act first and second act was it there for the BALL: Or what I didn’t under But it would work. good idea of how I had a fairly exactly. right, Yes, FOX: Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

76 Ball/Bell connection. You will getit, andyouwon’thavetoact, trustme, youwon’thavetoact.” it! Moreimportantly, youastheactorwillgoinsidethataudiencemember, andtherewillbea something willhappen. And thenwhateverhappens happens, andthey’llgetit, andyou’ll get and allthatkindofthing, butItoldthe[actorsplaying the]Iraqis, “Look intotheireyes, and because thatmeansthey’reflirtingwiththem. Well, notallofIraqiwomenarestrictlyMuslim, cry, notanyofthatstuff. This wasabreak, becauseIraqiwomenneverlookintheeyesofmen, needed wastheIraqisinroomstolookatpeople. And notoveract, notbeschmaltzy, not in fiveminutes. Sothat’swhatyoubelieveinNew York City. SoIdidn’tneedtheiPods, allI New York, ofcourse, whatIalwayssayis thatyouwanttokillyourselfandgeteverythingdone monitor onthecustomslinejustripsyourbrainoutofwhatyou werein. When yougetto when yougettoJFK[airport], yourfutureandpastlives willdieahorribledeathandtheCNN have in America. InIndia, withinthreedays you’regoingtobelieveinreincarnation. And then grab eachother’sthoughtsfromeverywhere. InBerlin youhavedifferentthoughtsthan language. This istheatre:yourthoughtonstagetheaudience’sthought. It’sculturealso matter, Iunderstoodeverysinglethingthattheyweresayingeventhoughdidn’t speakthe then Iwouldforgetwhat-the-fucknumberwaswhat. Butwhentheyweregoodactors, itdidn’t I hadalineinEnglishand Thai, andIcouldhandthelines, numberbynumber, and would writeinthetextandtheytranslateitinto Thai. We hadanumbersystemwhere me [that]whenIwasdirectingthefirst WOW companyshow, WOW realize wasthatinthetheatreyouheareverybody’sthoughtsanyway. WOW companytaught be hearingthethoughtsofallpeopleastheywalkedthrough. And whatI’dforgottento Bridge inahugetrafficjam, andtheaudiencewouldhaveiPodswiththeirriflesthatthey’d in ElSalvador, you’dwalkintoabusystreetinBangkok, you’dbeontheGeorge Washington wouldn’t beIraq;act2wouldallthesedifferentplaces. Likeyou’dwalkintoaclassroom all thepeople’sthoughts. Isn’tthatsuchanamazingscene?SoIwasthinkinginitiallyact 2 hilarious, I’llsendyousome ofthem, Ican’tsendyouthemall... cally throughInstantMessage, atfourinthemorning. Ihaveallthosetranscripts, andthey’re Wenders’s so thatpeoplewerehearinganentirelydifferentsoundtrack. Ithoughtofthescenein Wim ing awidescreenthingthroughspace, youknow?Ieventhoughtwouldhaveact2withiPods, Also whatI’mtalkingaboutwiththeinternetandhownarrativeformischanging, you’recarv- alone whenyou’rewatchingafilm, evenifyou’rewithsomebody, you’rewiththem amazing interiorscriptthatyouhavewhenyou’rewatchingafilm. You alwaysfeellikeyou’re I didsomethingelse. ButtheinterioreventwaswhatIwantedtohavehappen. To combinethe frame changeastheywentthroughsomething. Idon’tknowifgotwhatenvisioned, because FOX: ItwasaboutthesegrantsthatIhadduring thetraining. And Iwantedtoseepeople’s BELL: Soreallytheparticipatoryideawasjustkindof the moment. not sayingthatyoucan’thaveboth, althoughitseemslike, in America, youcan’thaveboth, at or asharedequitybreak, orasharedhealthcareplan. It’sjustbettertolivethatway. Which is it to, andthenyouhavesharedpurpose, whichismuchbetterthanhavingasharedequitycard, you’re upsetabout. And thenifyou’reupsetabouttherightthing, otherpeoplegetupsetabout tles. Ifyoucareaboutthewar, everybody’sgoingtostartcaringaboutthewar. You choosewhat as thedirectorcareaboutwaterbottles, everybody’sgoingtostartcaringaboutthewaterbot- And caringisaninterestingthingtoobecauseyoucan’tcareaboutthebullshitthings. Ifyou them care. Becauseyouknowthatwhenyou’renotpaid, everybodycares. Orelsethey’llleave. ing tofigureout. Trying tofigureouthowpaypeoplefirstofall, andthenwhenwe do, have care aboutit. And that’soneoftheweirdthingsthatin WOW companywearealwaystry- and ­ So commitment areinaninverseratio. You canpaypeopletodoanything;theydon’thave Surrender waswritteninthecourseof rehearsalperiod. JasonandIrehearsedbasi- Wings ofDesire wheretheangelsaregoingthroughsubwaytrainandtheyhear — , in Thailand, in Thai! I — alone. — we Josh Fox’s Surrender 77 but — but there are people and also for the gotcha and also for the gotcha — — I wanted it to be about wanting to be — I knew that people would expect that —

, and he said there was a lot of his thing with couples’ therapy written in there too. and he said there was a lot of his thing with couples’ therapy written in there too. , Surrender thing, the two in one. If the audience member is drunk or unruly or anything like that If the audience member is drunk or the two in one. thing, nicest looking I have a typecasting going on: I pick the sweetest looking, they never have been. who’s going to be cute or whatever and fun dude to go into that scene, waiting offstage to... BELL: Just in case. There were times when guy (laughs) you know? But it never was the case. ...house that FOX: the And then all the other people come in, the guy would just turn around and be [speechless]. And you invited all your I love you... I love you, “I love you, One guy was like, naked prisoners. “I love you’s.” the moment, that’s the funniest know, You friends.” was influenced by making the second part of that scene, BELL: How much of that, Memorial Day? And felt that one thing that we had to do was remind people that it was that I war. Well, FOX: was a big Memorial Day of course, So yeah, idea. I think up until that moment they lose that These is sex and death. this Thanatos, this is Eros and Freud, this is... And also, factor there. in the play that I feel is like me is Stefani’s charac- The only character things are intertwined. I Everybody else was somebody else. That’s the only one of them that I wrote myself into. ter. an intimacy problem that I wanted to think about. felt like that was the closest to dealing with the course which broke up during his relationship, And then when I was talking to Jason about of I didn’t want it to be about beating up I knew how I wanted to start it. And so that was a scene. your girlfriend beaten up yourself. it’s much more complicated than that. Yeah, BELL: I mean I think that’s more interesting. it’s more true, I think that’s true though, Well FOX: That and also role-playing! it’s so obvious. BELL: Oh yeah, had to take them We “Those aren’t your clothes.” were lines in it that were like, There FOX: because it just broke the fic- had to get taken out, Everything that was too on-the-nose out. “I’m the same And he says, “Do you know what you look like right now?” But she does say, tion. this is what you Oh yeah you did, “I didn’t sign up for this.” like, know, You as I always was.” or just do it without thinking I needed the audience to be either in the dilemma, signed up for. the dude saw the show, The night before you And they did it without thinking about it. about it. ) Some censored. BELL: (Laughing think about act 3: here’s what I “Alright, and say, I would go to Jason They’re redacted... FOX: have we scenario, we have a workplace we have a hospital, I think have a funeral, I think we (Clap) That’s of. scene that I thought scene was the first The bedroom a bedroom.” a fight in onstage with the entire audience member was that I wanted the It idea came from. where the but that a little different, more, It turned out to be something with them. in the bed cast naked, in bed with a naked actress?” “How can I get an audience member idea: was the genesis of the idea made me really happy. Something about that the audience member never of course, it, The two nights that we saw great. it’s Yeah, BELL: she’s topless. turns around to see that they sometimes did. Depends, FOX: reactions different? And were the BELL: that way is for Martina’s safety the reason why it’s staged Well, FOX: Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

78 Ball/Bell doing something? BALL: And doyouthink inyourwork, inthispiece, you’reactuallyphysically think that’sbecauseinthetheatre youalwaysfeellikearedoingsomething. NPR [NationalPublicRadio]about this totally disempoweredbyallthe Bushyears. Although inthetheatre don’t wanttoseeanythingyoucan’tdoabout. There’s thisincrediblefeelingofbeing to comedownandseeit. This isthething, thesamethingwithIraqwarmoviesI’msure. You FOX: Huge. PeoplecameafterObamawon. After. BeforeObamawon, wecouldn’tgetpeople guration influenceanything? BELL: Sothatbeingsaid, didthefactthatrunwas goingonduringtheelectionandinau- mental philosophicalproblem, thatlivingequalskilling. about theIraq War. It’snotaboutanti-warorpro-war. It’sthathumanproblem, that funda- FOX: There areallkindofwaystogetoutit. Right? That’s whatSurrender’s about. It’snot BELL: Someculturesdo, yeah. philosophy aboutthis, whichisthatyouthanktheanimalaskillthem. it FOX: Samethingwiththewar. You cantrytogetyourselfoutofit, butyoucan’tgetoutof Spencer Gordon) Company’s of a returning soldier towards the end of International WOW steer for intothe benefit of an audience member thrust role Figure 13. Two actors demonstrate the proper way to gut a rific, andthenhesitsbackdowngoes, “Nowheis,” andtheaudiencelaughs! ing whorightnow?” Finallyafteraboutnineshots, I’mthinking, “I’m done!” Itwasreally hor with the[sound]sampler, andI’mlike, “Are yougoingtostop? Am Igoingtostop? Who’s lead- And onedudewasjustlikebang, bang, bang, bang, andI’msittingheretryingtofollowhim and sohereweare, everynight, thesamethinghappens. He’snotdead, takecareofit, bang. bang, “now heis.” Onvideo, releasedaroundtheworld, on Al Jazeera, andthatguyisinjail, had adyinginsurgentonthegroundcallingforhelp, andtheotherguysaying, “he’s notdead,” moments intheIraqwarwheneveryonerealized, “This isn’tgoingsowell” is illegal. It’sawarcrime. It’sexactlywhathappenedinthatfamousvideo in termsofaninstruction, buteverynightwe’dtaketherifle, andshoottheguy, again, which shot thatguylike10times. [Thelineis:] “He’s notdead, takecareofit.” It’sveryambiguous, — at leastnotthisstageofhumanconsciousness. Native American mythologyatleasthasa Surrender. The Ohio Theatre, October 2008. (Photo by — Iraq playsweresuccessfuland the filmswerenot. I BELL: You havetodealwithit. out ofit. self outofit, butyoucan’tget an issue. You cantrytogetyour that we’reanimals, whatever, it’s mean it’sanissuewiththefact going tobekillingsomething. I there’s nowayaroundit, you’re babies. All I’msayingis, survival: to getpastacertainstageas beings havetomilkormeat what makesmehuman?Human makes meananimaloristhat into livingcows.” Isthatwhat often dreamofsinkingmyteeth the bestspeech, tome, isthe “I percent ofthetime. And then FOX: Yeah, prettymuch, 90 BELL: Everynight? — we gotinterviewedon —

— that’s oneofthe with theguywho - - Josh Fox’s Surrender 79 - in — - a theatre — whether it’s about the war — although talking afterwards — something that people don’t have. I mean this don’t have. something that people — but you figure them out by this osmosis of the mind that’s happening around but you figure them out by this osmosis , physically, your whole body feels it. physically, , Surrender —

it’s always the same problem, the problem is always humanity it’s always the same problem, changes the world. You can feel it. can feel it. You That changes the world.

— New York City, one room at a time, one room, each performance. So at the end of it we’ll have So each performance. one room, one room at a time, City, York New and we’ll So the audience will go in, or wherever we do the show. York, a new theatre in New is stressed in ensemble theatre. But it’s not always the case. You can walk into theatre produc- You But it’s not always the case. theatre. is stressed in ensemble about they’re complaining don’t give a fuck, they even know each other, tions and actors don’t you know, being tight and having a bond, But the thing of being with other people, each other. I think it’s not real. I think it’s real, I think it’s really dangerous. I think it’s really important. you can fool yourself and not intimate, it’s you know, it’s not friendship, I mean comradeship, it’s something else. but it’s not, think it is intimate, and people, I met her through other leaders at a party later, I saw one of my squad Yeah, BELL: and of course, all, But she didn’t remember at “Oh my god! I feel this connection!” I was like, that whole thing breaks down. in the company is my friend, Not everybody just because it’s a daily thing. But that’s FOX: but we’re are my friends, some of them Some of them are friends, or friends with each other. what I mean? So there’s a difference between those you know still all linked in that other way, So in the bedroom and one of them isn’t. them is intimate, The difference is that one of things. The the- we don’t have. you know, but community, the intimacy thing was a part of it, scene, where everybody goes to deal with the civilization that The theatre is a place atre is about this. is human- whether the problem We have a problem, they’re a part of in very specific terms. ity the problem of being old, or the problem of revenge, or Mother Courage or it’s about economics, not knowing how to listen correctly to somebody who is lying like in King Lear, the problem of, where we go to the theatre and we try to digest them and Those problems are the ones to you. and you don’t figure them out by talking either figure them out, but that’s what I The clothes that are different become this other thing, ing your own clothes. I’m really inter right up next to each other. each other, people who didn’t know wanted to see, did in Surrender but I’m also interested in the fact that what we ested in this phenomenon now, so I want to train them to build them to be trained, but train was not train them to be soldiers, The next piece is we’re building a sustainable energy building a building next. FOX: Yes, well sure. But even if you’re not physically doing something, in the theatre, you’re in you’re in the theatre, doing something, physically not even if you’re But sure. well Yes, FOX: with here “We’re sense of, there’s always this If it’s good, an action; it’s not passive. a room: It’s sometimes. mean, I that in a film. never get You out.” sussing something our community my Because to the sense of community? about about that, you actually talk more BALL: Can curi- and I’m little squad, community in your very strong sense of created a participating mind, that at all. ous if you thought about things I wanted to gen- that’s one of the the camaraderie, That’s the feeling, Of course. FOX: have this feel- You the squad. you have the same thing as you have in In an ensemble erate. a part of them people, ing of being with other FOX: Yeah, that’s what I wanted. I wanted people to be feeling that in their bones. to be feeling that in their bones. I wanted people that’s what I wanted. Yeah, FOX: BELL: I felt sore the next day. never had to fucking worry about if the audience is going to fit on those platforms. We FOX: they’ll lie on each fuck it, Who cares, to want chairs? Are they going squeeze ’em in. We’ll No! in Touching Touching! I wanted them all lying on each other by the end of the third act. other. People like to break that’s what I want to see. like get (clap) there, “Get nut to butt,” the squad! why you’re able to do this is that you’re not wear One of the reasons those barriers down. BELL: And in is important you. Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DRAM_a_00167 by guest on 29September 2021

80 Ball/Bell fails; somethingalwayshappens. for alittlewhileIthink. IthinkI’llhavetheaudienceonstageforareallylongtime. Itnever in theactor. SonowIfeellikeI’vefoundthisthingthatworks, andI’mgoingtokeepafterthis the ’60s?Fuckthat, youknow?I’vealwaysbeensointerestedintheaudienceand atre istheatre. Oritmeanssomethingfromthe’60s Experimental theatremeansperformanceart, whichisn’ttheatre, forthemostpart. Ithinkthe- see whattheresultsaregoingtobe. This isa10,000-year-old event, thisisn’tanexperiment. I’m provoking, butI’mnotexperimenting. I’mnotwearingalabcoat, I’mnotinterestedto like, “Oh, they’rejustexperimenting.” I’mnotexperimenting;Iknowexactlywhatdoing. FOX: Becausetomeitmeansrisk, whereasexperimentalissomehowpejorativeandfeels BELL: Why doyoulikeavantgarde?Justbecauseit’sFrench? like avantgardeactually, it’sFrench. you saypoliticaltheatretome, Ihatethatterm. Ialsohatethetermexperimentaltheatre a bunchofotherpeople, whoalsogoonthatjourneywithyou. It’sjustfundamental, sowhen have todealwiththeproblemofjustice, andtheproblemofyoursocialcontext, inaroom, with Surrender. [...] About theatre, Ifeelthat, fundamentally, therearerules, andtherules are: you about howgreatitistobehomelessandunmarried.. It’scalledReconstruction It’sthesequelto or there’sartisthousingwhatever, Idon’tknowwhattheplay’saboutyet. It’sprobably then youleave, andthere’satheatreintheroom, andyouleaveittothepeoplewhobuiltit, FOX: Hastobe, absolutelyhastobesustainable, hastobeableexistoffthegrid. And BELL: Butit’sstillgoingtobesustainable... that thedisciplinepartofithastostillbeait. this outwithanarchitect. Ican’tdecideifithastobearmycorpsofengineers, becauseIthink teach themsomething, aboutcarpentryorwhatever, Idon’tknowwhat, we’regoingtofigure — who wantstobedoingsomethingfrom — I