Da´Il E´Ireann

Vol. 634 Wednesday, No. 5 28 March 2007

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Wednesday, 28 March 2007.

Leaders’ Questions ………………………………1177 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach …………………………………1194 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ………………1208 Order of Business ………………………………1209 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2007: Report and Final Stages …………………1217 European Communities Bill 2006 [Seanad]: Report Stage …………………1222 Estimates for Public Services 2007: Messages from Select Committees ……………1230 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism Priority Questions ……………………………1230 Other Questions ……………………………1245 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1257 European Communities Bill 2007 [Seanad]: Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage … … … 1258 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: Report and Final Stages …………………1275 Estimates for Public Services 2007: Messages from Select Committees ……………1310 Private Members’ Business Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: Second Stage (resumed) ……………1310 Adjournment Debate Health Services ………………………………1339 Water Pollution ………………………………1341 RoadNetwork………………………………1345 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1349 1177 1178

DA´ IL E´ IREANN body that deals with legal fees, to approach the issue of costs in a measured and sensitive way. ———— The agency informed Ms O’Keeffe’s solicitor at that time and on the record, that while the same De´ Ce´adaoin, 28 Ma´rta 2007. arrangements would have to be made in respect Wednesday, 28 March 2007. of costs, there was no question whatsoever of her losing her house, which was the issue. Her solici- ———— tor informed the agency that she intended to appeal the case to the Supreme Court and it was Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas not possible to make a deal with her on the pre- ar 10.30 a.m. vious costs. In any event, the High Court placed a stay on the costs order pending the determi- ———— nation of the Supreme Court appeal. I have stated on many occasions that I sym- Paidir. pathise greatly with those who were subjected to Prayer abuse in our schools and in places in which they should have felt safe and protected. Child abuse, ———— regardless of where it occurs, is devastating and victims always carry a great deal of emotional Leaders’ Questions. pain. There is no doubt that a huge wrong was Mr. Kenny: I wish to ask the Taoiseach about done to young children in our schools in the past. a matter that has been raised by Deputy Enright While I feel deeply sorry for the victims, the and others on a number of occasions, which was courts have found that the State was not liable in the subject of a “Prime Time” programme last this regard. A number of cases have been heard week. I refer to the attitude of the Government in the courts. towards accepting responsibility for what happened to a number of children in day primary Mr. P. McGrath: A little sympathy does not go schools throughout the country. The Taoiseach very far. will be aware of Louise O’Keeffe, who lost her case — in respect of which a sum of \500,000 in The Taoiseach: Our education system has long costs is pending — in the High Court. The view been structured on the basis that schools are is that this is a public interest case and that the sponsored by religious and other patrons and run State should not pursue Ms O’Keeffe for costs. by local management on their behalf. Since the Will the Taoiseach clarify the position in this enactment of the relevant legislation, legal regard? responsibility in this regard is vested in boards of The Government wrote a letter advising vic- management. The courts found in four separate tims that the Department of Education and cases that the Department of Education and Science has no responsibility in this matter and Science was not liable for abuse that occurred in that they should pursue boards of management. schools. I accept that the State is not legally Under the Constitution, the State has a duty to responsible for what happened. That does not provide for people’s education. In addition, make matters any less awful for the people con- teachers are paid out of the public purse and the cerned, but the legal issue involved here is that Department of Education and Science sets down the Department is not responsible. the curriculum, pays capitation grants and provides buildings. Do the Taoiseach and the Ms O’Sullivan: The Taoiseach is washing his Government agree with the assertion by the hands of it. Minister for Education and Science and her Department that they will not accept responsi- Mr. Kenny: Do I take it the Government, bility for what happens to children in primary which has been led by the Taoiseach for the past schools throughout the country? Do the ten years, does not accept responsibility for sex- Taoiseach and the Government agree with the ual abuse of children in day schools throughout contents of the letter that was sent? If they do, the country? Do I understand that evidence pro- they are abdicating responsibility completely. If duced last week of a letter submitted to the they do not, are they prepared to have it with- Department of Education and Science, which drawn and have some other system devised under clearly indicated abuse by a teacher, was not dealt which justice would be done and responsibility with and that no action was taken? I will ask the accepted? Taoiseach again whether he agrees with the letter that was sent to victims advising them that the The Taoiseach: As the Deputy is aware, I Government has no responsibility in respect of cannot comment on the details of the O’Keeffe this matter and that they should sue boards of case, which has been appealed to the Supreme management. Such boards are comprised of Court. On the costs relating to the previous case, approximately 20,000 volunteers and lay people. I made it clear last March that the Government Why would anybody want to serve on a board of had asked the State Claims Agency, the statutory management if he or she would be likely to be 1179 Leaders’ 28 March 2007. Questions 1180

[Mr. Kenny.] Mr. Kenny: I agree. What will the Taoiseach sued in circumstances of this sort? Is it not a fact do about it? that, under the Constitution, the Government must provide for people’s education and that, for An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach without example, welfare officers, who have a role to play interruption, please. in ensuring children attend school, are part of the State machinery? Mr. Kenny: What will he do about it? Does he agree the letter sent out is in accordance with the Government views? How can he An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kenny, please, stand here, as head of Government, and state that you had your opportunity. all responsibility is abdicated for children who were abused in day schools throughout the land? Mr. McCormack: It is like signing a blank He apologised, in respect of the institutions cheque. arising from the Residential Institutions Redress Board, to all those victims who were abused in The Taoiseach: I said I sympathise greatly with institutions. Does he now apologise to all of those those who have been subjected to abuse. victims who were abused in day schools? Let me hear it again from the Taoiseach, as head of Mr. Allen: Weasel words. Government, that Fianna Fa´il and the Progress- The Taoiseach: Deputy Kenny is correct. I ive Democrats will not accept any responsibility apologised to those who were in institutions for the sexual abuse of children in day schools, of because in the institutions the State had a full which the Department of Education and Science obligation. I have never stopped taking criticism was notified officially and took no action. If that from the Opposition in this House for that is the case, we have come to a new low where he matter, but that is neither here nor there. will not even accept any moral responsibility for Boards of management are not sued as individ- an outrage that happened in so many cases uals but as boards of management, and they have throughout the land. indemnity insurance on that issue, which has been made quite clear. While members of boards have The Taoiseach: There are a number of points. a responsibility to ensure procedures are in place The letter sent is based on legal advice of the to keep their pupils safe and to investigate any legal position. allegations of abuse, they are not personally liable for claims against the school. Mr. Kenny: It is on behalf of the Government. Boards of management are a corporate entity and can be sued. However, the Education Act The Taoiseach: It is the legal position, that is provides that the individual members who serve the point. and who do a good job on boards, have protection. In addition, boards are required to have Mr. Kenny: It is on behalf of his Government. insurance policies to cover this. That is the legal position. The Taoiseach: Deputy Kenny asked me to It is important that there is local responsibility clarify the position. That is the legal position. and vigilance, but of course this does not mean volunteer members of boards being exposed to Mr. McCormack: That makes it worse. claims, which is the concern that individuals would have. Mr. Kenny: Hide behind it. Mr. Allen: Is it all about money? The Taoiseach: One does not hide behind the law. The Taoiseach: The Minister does not believe this issue will stop people from volunteering to Ms Lynch: That is the cover. participate in boards. The head of the Catholic Primary School Managers’ Association has also The Taoiseach: One does not hide behind the publicly assured board members that they are law; one quotes the law. protected by insurance and, therefore, I do not want to get into the position of scaremongering. A Deputy: It is all right if you change it. Mr. Allen: What about the victims? An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach without interruption, please. An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach: If cases are fought in court, one The Taoiseach: The position is that in the does not ignore that. If one is in this office, one entire history of the State primary schools have does not ignore cases fought in the court and just been State aided as distinct from State run. The make up one’s own mind. That is not what the Catholic Church and other churches which have Taoiseach does. set up the vast majority of our primary schools 1181 Leaders’ 28 March 2007. Questions 1182 continue to act as their patrons. Other patrons The Taoiseach: Deputy Rabbitte raised three include those of Protestant, Jewish and Muslim points. First, he is incorrect to state I did not raise faiths, and the patron bodies from Gaelscoileanna the hospital issue and the health service issue. and Educate Together schools. That is the way Last week I gave extensive detail on the health our school system is set up. issue at the Fianna Fa´il Ard-Fheis, including that The enactment of the Education Act ten years we are bringing in a national screening prog- ago gave statutory expression to the status of the ramme for breast cancer—— existing relationships between the Minister, the patron and board of management into primary Mr. McCormack: One could not watch it all. legislation, and it is the school’s management, rather than the Department, that recruits and Mr. Allen: It is not operational. employs teachers and other staff. That is the legal An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach position and that is why the cases have been dealt without interruption. with by the courts on that basis. The Taoiseach: ——extending the facilities in a Mr. Allen: A cop out. number of areas of treatments, improving the urgent care centre—— Mr. Rabbitte: I noted the “H” word was the only one that did not pass the Taoiseach’s lips on Mr. Quinn: Answer the question. Saturday night. There was no reference at all of hospitals, not to mention private hospitals and The Taoiseach: That was part of the question. the Government’s plan to build super private clinics on the grounds of public hospitals. There Mr. Allen: People are waiting two years. is not a single Member in any week of the year who does not deal with a number of harrowing The Taoiseach: I also referred to prostate cases of people languishing in queues for public cancer services. These will be important hospital care because of the inequality at the services—— heart of the health service intrinsic in the two- tier system. Mr. Stagg: We do not believe him. The two-tier health system will be worsened by the Harney plan, endorsed by the Cabinet and (Interruptions). supported by the Taoiseach. Up to now it was Mr. D. Ahern: Let him answer. believed that people would be treated equally in accident and emergency departments. Now there The Taoiseach: ——including finalising the will be a two-tier accident and emergency system. remaining beds that we need for public hospitals. Dr. James Binchy, speaking on behalf of That, of course, includes dealing with the issue of doctors at a recent conference, stated that the fol- co-location. The position is that I am not signing lowing had emerged during discussions on new any contracts. The HSE, on eight contracts—— contract talks for consultants: Under such a system [the system of co- Mr. Allen: Pontius Pilate. location], patients who opt to be treated pri- Ms Lynch: What is he there for? vately will be admitted directly to the co- located private facility, while those who cannot (Interruptions). afford private medicine will continue to langu- ish in A&E Departments while awaiting a bed The Taoiseach: If they do not want to hear in the public system. what is happening, there is no point in me The decision as to which patients will get a speaking. hospital bed will be made on the basis of the ability to pay rather than clinical need, Dr. (Interruptions). Binchy said. An Ceann Comhairle: Could I point out to When I asked the Taoiseach if he was going Members that this is Deputy Rabbitte’s question ahead with signing these contracts before the and he is entitled to hear the answer to it? election, he denied he knew anything about contracts. When I came back to it last week he stated Mr. Penrose: The Taoiseach is giving a non- that he thought it was going ahead, but he did not answer. know, on 16 April. Will he further worsen the two-tier divide in the health service by signing An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Members to contracts, for which he has no mandate, for which remain silent and allow that to happen. The he did not seek a mandate, which are not in the Taoiseach without interruption, please. programme for Government and on which he is proceeding on the eve of a general election? Is Mr. N. Dempsey: Even if the Deputy is not that still the position of his Government? interested. 1183 Leaders’ 28 March 2007. Questions 1184

Mr. McCormack: He will not sign any more With regard to what consultants will say about blank cheques. the industrial relations discussions on their contract, I wish Mark Connaughton and the other The Taoiseach: I apologise if I am provoking participants well over the next few weeks. the Opposition. The Government is trying to Public accident and emergency units are not make available, against the wishes of the Oppo- located in private hospitals. Deputy Rabbitte sition, more beds so that more public patients will does himself no good by trying to make the case be involved in hospitals. that we will have accident and emergency units in private hospitals for the first time in the history Mr. Allen: It is helping private business. of the State. We do not have accident and emergency units in Blackrock Clinic, the Mater Private Mr. Penrose: They have been given away to the Hospital, the Bon Secours Hospital or the private Taoiseach’s rich friends. hospitals in Cork and Waterford. That has never happened nor is it proposed. We are talking An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach, without about putting public beds into public hospitals interruption. and have co-located private beds. That is the proposal. Mr. Allen: The books are being cooked. Mr. Rabbitte: I am not the one who is saying An Ceann Comhairle: Does Deputy Allen wish this. Accident and emergency consultants have to leave the House? said they are extremely disturbed by proposals that would mean their patients would automati- The Taoiseach: The HSE is responsible for cally get a bed because they are privately insured. that. It seems desirable to this side of the House Under the co-location model, beds for emergency to reduce waiting lists even further than the admissions will now be allocated on the basis of reduction by half we achieved in recent years and ability to pay. to eliminate them if possible. To do that, we will need more beds. Mr. Cullen: That is not the case. Mr. Stagg: You said you would do it in two years. Mr. Rabbitte: It is not I who is saying this, but the consultants who are struggling in accident and The Taoiseach: If the Deputy would co-operate emergency units. with us, we might do so more quickly. Mr. N. Dempsey: They are wrong. Mr. Stagg: Five years ago, it was to be done in two years. Mr. Rabbitte: There is as much concern behind the Taoiseach as there is on this side of the House The Taoiseach: Deputy Stagg does not want to about how he is worsening the divide in the hear what I have to say about public hospital health services. beds. Currently there are several thousand private beds in public hospitals and there is no Mr. Allen: The Progressive Democrats is draw- access for public patients. We are endeavouring ing the Taoiseach into a strange one. to build co-located private hospitals so that those private beds can move out of public hospitals and Mr. Rabbitte: It is not acceptable for the be designated private hospitals. The same con- Taoiseach to come in here with sleeveen, weasel sultants would be able to work in their public and words about the HSE. private capacities but we would have more access for public patients. Accident and emergency units Mr. O’Donoghue: That is not nice. would not be affected. Deputy Rabbitte knows that the Minister for Health and Children issued Mr. Rabbitte: The Taoiseach is blaming the a statement on this matter last week. It will not HSE rather than the Government or himself. The affect accident and emergency services. HSE is being required to do this at the dictate of I accept the Deputy is opposed to this but we the Minister for Health and Children. That is the are trying to make more public hospitals available fact of the matter. in the short term to people who are on public waiting lists. With the increases in population and Mr. N. Dempsey: That is not happening. specialisation, we need more public hospitals, and this is one way of meeting that. It is additional to Mr. Rabbitte: I do not know who is performing all the new construction projects under way and the ventriloquism but the Minister either knows the several hospitals which have been com- nothing about the matter or he is in denial, just missioned in various locations. I do not see why as the Taoiseach is in denial about the contracts. anyone would be opposed to this. It will help public patients and the efficiency of our con- Mr. N. Dempsey: Deputy Rabbitte is mislead- sultants. ing the House, as usual. 1185 Leaders’ 28 March 2007. Questions 1186

An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Minister to through accident and emergency units and people allow Deputy Rabbitte to continue without will continue to go to public hospitals. The Mini- interruption. ster for Health and Children made that clear last week. That is not the issue. I believe, although Mr. Rabbitte: The Minister, Deputy Noel the Deputy does not, we have a mandate for this. Dempsey, did not seek any mandate for this We have a mandate to build additional private policy. He did not put it in the programme for hospitals and public hospitals. Government. The Taoiseach knows there will be no accident and emergency services in the private Mr. Rabbitte: Rubbish. hospitals. The consultants are saying that patients will be transferred out of casualty units on the The Taoiseach: I ask the Deputy to listen. basis of whether they have private insurance. That is how serious it is for the Fianna Fa´il back- Mr. Rabbitte: Where did you get it? benchers who will rendez-vous with distressed and concerned people in the coming weeks. The Taoiseach: We said we would provide additional public beds. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has concluded. Mr. Rabbitte: Exactly, but the Government did not provide them. Mr. Rabbitte: I am grateful to the Ceann Comhairle. While the Taoiseach refuses to The Taoiseach: This is a way of doing so. answer the question of whether he will sign the Deputy Rabbitte is trying to block the Govern- contracts, even if he does sign them, we will do ment hand over fist for a different industrial everything we can to examine the tax sections relations reason—— that allow the write-down in capital allowances to the investors who will build these super private Mr. Gilmore: Rubbish. clinics. Investors who put their money into these The Taoiseach: ——which I am aware of super private clinics should be well advised that because I have listened to the union side in this. if it is legally possible — I think a Government The Deputy is opposing the Government’s efforts always has the sovereign right to change a tax to provide additional public beds. section — we will make those changes if this side of the House is returned to Government. Mr. Allen: That is hysterical stuff.

Deputies: Hear, hear. The Taoiseach: That is the end result of his campaign. Mr. Roche: Is that also Fine Gael policy? Mr. Stagg: Not at all. Mr. N. Dempsey: Deputy Rabbitte made a uni- lateral decision. Does Fine Gael agree with it? An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption. An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach, without interruption. Mr. Rabbitte: Do not be ridiculous.

Mr. Hogan: I am aware of Deputy Roche’s The Taoiseach: It is not ridiculous, it is a fact. policies. The HSE is involved in negotiations and Deputy Rabbitte should know but clearly does not — as Mr. Roche: Does Deputy Bruton agree? is more likely, he wants to mislead — that the entire health Vote is in the hands of the HSE. An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Members on both sides of the House to allow the Taoiseach to con- Mr. Kehoe: He is passing the buck. tinue without interruption. The Taoiseach: The HSE is the negotiator on The Taoiseach: Deputy Rabbitte is entitled to the issue. That is one of its functions and, unfor- say that if he is elected to power he will close the tunately, Deputy Rabbitte sought to misinterpret tax incentives for private hospitals. There are no the matter. super private hospitals. They are the same tax incentives that have given us 7,500 nursing home Mr. Allen: The Taoiseach should take responsi- units. If his policy is opposed to what we have bility for once. created successfully, he is entitled to do that. Deputy Rabbitte may say that I am using wea- The Taoiseach: It is amazing that the Deputy sel, sleeveen words, but that does not take away needs so much help. Is Deputy Allen and Fine from the facts of the case. The consultants are Gael opposed to co-location? negotiating a common contract and they know the law well, as should the Deputy. Road traffic Mr. Allen: I am opposed to making business accidents and other emergency services will pass out of health. 1187 Leaders’ 28 March 2007. Questions 1188

The Taoiseach: Will he also change the tax Mr. Roche: Sale or lease, we had that last week law? from Deputy Kenny.

Mr. Allen: I do not want big business to be An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Minister to made from health. allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Allen should stop interrupting. Mr. Roche: Weasel words.

Mr. Allen: I answered the Taoiseach’s Mr. Kenny: The Minister, Deputy Roche, question. should deal with the sewage in Arklow.

The Taoiseach: Is the Deputy opposed to Mr. Roche: Sale or lease. changing the tax law? An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach, without Mr. Kenny: Fine Gael has already made that interruption. clear. Mr. Connaughton: The Taoiseach has no Mr. Allen: I am opposed to making big busi- answer. ness out of health. Mr. F. McGrath: Where are the 3,000 beds to An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Allen will have be provided in a year? to leave the House if he continues to interrupt. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Connaughton is Ms Enright: He answered a question from the not the leader of the Labour Party and, therefore, Taoiseach. he is not entitled to intervene.

The Taoiseach: Is Fine Gael opposed to Mr. J. Brady: They are all the one. private medicine? Mr. Connaughton: When the Minister for the An Ceann Comhairle: I do not care who asked Environment, Heritage and Local Government the question. shouted a question earlier, the Ceann Comhairle did not say a word. He should try to be fair if The Taoiseach: Is it opposed to co-located he can. beds? An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach without An Ceann Comhairle: It is not his question, it interruption. Please allow him to conclude on is the Labour leader’s question. this question.

The Taoiseach: Will it change the tax regu- Mr. Connaughton: The Minister will not ask lations? Is that Fine Gael’s policy? that question again in a hurry. The Taoiseach has no answer. Mr. Kenny: The Fine Gael Party—— The Taoiseach: The issue is that for many years An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputies to desist 2,500 private beds have been ring-fenced in public from interrupting. hospitals. We are trying to provide more public beds so that the political support—— Mr. Kenny: On a point of order, I was asked a question by the Taoiseach. The Fine Gael Party Mr. Stagg: The Government should build them. is opposed to the sale of public lands at public hospitals for private hospitals. Mr. McCormack: The Government should open the beds it has closed. Deputies: Hear, hear. The Taoiseach: We are building hospitals in An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy Kenny to Tullamore, Cork and many other places. sit down. Mr. Stagg: The Government is building them Mr. N. Dempsey: That is not the same thing. privately.

The Taoiseach: That is a different issue. The Taoiseach: The investors who were shocked a few minutes ago by Deputy Rabbitte’s An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Taoiseach to statement have been reassured by Deputy return to Deputy Rabbitte’s question. Kenny’s statement. When one works all that out, it will be very interesting. The Taoiseach: Here we have two alternative views. Mr. Allen: That is pathetic. 1189 Leaders’ 28 March 2007. Questions 1190

Mr. Durkan: This is like Saturday night all The Taoiseach: I assure the House that improv- over again. ing services for children of special needs across a range of areas has been, and continues to be, a Mr. Hogan: It is nice to be prudent. major priority for the Government. We have worked hard to dramatically increase services in Mr. Boyle: Castrating the health service. Is that recent years. This year \820 million will be spent the Government’s job? on special needs education, which is an increase of more than 30% on last year. A total of 8,000 Mr. F. McGrath: When the 3,000 beds are pro- special needs assistants are working in main- vided and equipped, the Government can talk. stream primary and second level schools compared to 300 on the day I became Taoiseach. Mr. Eamon Ryan: We want financial More than 7,000 resource and learning school investment. teachers are in place compared to approximately 2,000 five or six years ago. Mr. Sargent: This sounds more like an Ard- Major progress has been made in the support Fheis. Last weekend the Taoiseach told the of children with autism, which is the important nation he had lots of money to give away. Earlier issue raised by the Deputy. The Department of the Committee of Public Accounts stated the Education and Science’s preferred approach to Government wasted \13 billion, which is more than the Taoiseach had in mind. However, the the provision of appropriate education for chil- contrast is stark. The message from the Govern- dren with autism is through the primary and post- ment regarding mental health provision is that it primary school network—— cannot afford the most basic services. The Irish Independent reports today that 5,300 pupils will Mr. Sargent: Not for all children. be hit by the withdrawal of psychological services from 29 schools in Dublin and Wicklow. The Taoiseach: ——whether through place- Did the Taoiseach see the media coverage of ment in mainstream classes, special classes or in the court case involving SeańO´ Cuanachaín, a special schools, a view supported by the findings young Wicklow boy with autism? Bearing in mind of the task force report on autism. Autistic chil- that the Minister for Education and dren in the school system have access to qualified 11 o’clock Science welcomed the court teachers using a range of methodologies. judgment, did the Taoiseach see the Over the past few years, 182 special classes for boy’s mother, Yvonne, stating, “The light of children with autism have been provided in learning has all but been extinguished from Seań special and mainstream schools and they are today”. I do not ask the Taoiseach to comment attached to the schools. We have provided five on the case because aspects of it are ongoing and special classes for children with Asperger’s syn- I do not suggest there is only one method for drome, 18 preschool classes to facilitate the ´ teaching children with autism. Given that Mrs. O demand for early intervention and 14 stand-alone Cuanachaín is seven months pregnant, spent nine facilities for applied behavioural analysis, the days in the witness box, is a trained psychologist ABA specific methodology, on a pilot basis. and only sought what her child needs — 30 hours of applied behavioural analysis a week, which Mr. Sargent: Which the parents are funding. would save the State money — does he welcome the outcome of the case? Does he welcome forc- The Taoiseach: Two of these facilities have to ing parents in that position into court to obtain be established. the services their children need? Following the case, will the Government provide funding for As Deputy Sargent acknowledged, ABA is not autism services such as ABA? Will the Taoiseach the only issue. I have met the groups and commit- ensure the waiting lists for an appointment for tees working on this issue. The Department’s assessment, which can take up to two years, will view and the expert opinion is that exclusive be reduced? Will the Government recognise intervention through ABA is not the only way. ABA as a sufficient qualification for teachers of The task force on autism recommended that a children with autism? Can the Taoiseach range of resources and approaches be made avail- seriously just sit there and welcome that able to meet the unique needs of each student judgment without answering these other with autistic spectrum disorder in all settings and questions? the Department is of the view that children with autism, in common with all children, should be The Taoiseach: I appreciate I have not been educated by suitably qualified teachers within the asked by the Deputy to comment on an individual school system where they can mix with the wider case but I do not take satisfaction in seeing peer group and have maximum opportunity for parents having to fight issues relating to their chil- integration. Pupils attending special classes in dren in court. mainstream school benefit from the wider range of special teaching methodologies open to them, Mr. Sargent: The Taoiseach welcomed the case. fully qualified national school teachers, a school 1191 Leaders’ 28 March 2007. Questions 1192

[The Taoiseach.] An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has structure and the option of integration into main- concluded. stream classes if that is suitable for them. I can well understand that a number of parents Mr. Sargent: ——in the fundraising? I will take the view that only one methodology suits reduce the basic point to a single question. their children but the State is providing—— An Ceann Comhairle: I would prefer the Mr. Sargent: It is more than a view. Deputy to conclude. We are running well over time. The Taoiseach: The Deputy cannot say the Mr. Sargent: I am concluding. This is the last effort and significant resources that have been sentence of the last question. I know this is a com- put in and the ongoing work and research in this plex issue. However, if the Taoiseach will not area are not a good response in this area. answer me in the House, will he at least meet——

Mr. Sargent: That is nonsense. An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to give way to the Taoiseach. The Taoiseach: The Deputy says it is nonsense for us to have appointed thousands of additional Mr. Sargent: ——Irish Autism Action in the staff to work in the education system. That is a wake of that court case to assess where we now huge improvement. That is what the Government stand and what must be done? is committed to and that is what the Minister for Education and Science has been doing so excel- The Taoiseach: Deputy Sargent understands lently over the past number of years. that ABA is only one such treatment.

Mr. Sargent: I must read between the lines. Do Mr. Sargent: I have already said that. I take it from the Taoiseach’s response that he will not provide additional funding for ABA tui- The Taoiseach: There are several. I have tion, he will not recognise ABA as a stand-alone answered on the question of resources. There has qualification and he is not prepared to reduce been an increase of more than 30% this year. waiting lists for assessment? I have to infer his reply from he does not say as much as what he Mr. F. McGrath: Unplugged gaps. says. Approximately one in 66 children is affected The Taoiseach: Resources have increased by by autism and that number is increasing. more than 30%. Public expenditure has risen by Resources will, therefore, have to be increased 38% or 39% and the Education for Persons with regardless. Approximately 150 families such as Special Educational Needs Act is regarded as the O´ Cuanacha´ins have been left with no option being one of the most advanced anywhere in the but to go to court to try their luck through the world. legal system because the State will not deal with their children in the way their psychologists have Mr. Sargent: Who considers it to be advanced? recommended. Does the Taoiseach not recognise investment in ABA will save the State money in Ms O’Sullivan: It has not been fully the long run? implemented.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s time has The Taoiseach: That is the consideration concluded. regarding this Act.

Mr. Sargent: This could be argued as a simple Mr. Sargent: Did the Minister for Education point of accountancy. and Science, Deputy Hanafin, tell the Taoiseach The Taoiseach spoke about ABA facilities. so? However, in Donaghmede, parents are obliged to provide funds of \10,000 and in the ABA school The Taoiseach: It is a fact. in Kilcloon, County Meath, parents must find Mr. N. Dempsey: It is a recognised fact. \12,000 monthly. Parents must go into debt at every turn to try to do what the Government Mr. Sargent: The Minister for Communi- should, namely, to get analysis for their children. cations, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Is it acceptable for the Government to drive Noel Dempsey, knows it all. such parents into court repeatedly? Is it acceptable to have groups such as NUI Maynooth An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Sargent, please. engaging in a sponsored cycle this Friday to try The Chair will be obliged to take appropriate to raise money to provide funds or to have enter- action. tainers such as Mr. Keith Duffy getting involved—— Mr. Sargent: I was looking for a source. 1193 Ceisteanna — 28 March 2007. Questions 1194

An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to The State is doing an enormous amount to behave himself in the Chamber and allow the help—— Taoiseach to speak without interruption. An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach should The Taoiseach: Autism is an important issue conclude. and as I noted, 182 special classes for children with autism are attached to schools. This is con- The Taoiseach: ——and the Government will sidered to be the best approach. There are also continue to have ongoing meetings with Irish special classes for different streams of autism. Autism Action on such issues. There are 18 pre-school classes to facilitate demand for early intervention and 14 stand-alone Ceisteanna — Questions. facilities have been provided for applied behavioural analysis. These are pilot schemes run ———— by the Department of Education and Science. They are not—— Official Engagements. Mr. Sargent: What about funding? 1. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Northern The Taoiseach: It is the Government’s priority Secretary, Mr. Peter Hain, in Wales on 4 to continue to expand provision for children with February 2007; and if he will make a statement autism. All primary and post-primary schools on the matter. [4723/07] have access to psychological assessments for their pupils through the various schemes. More than 2. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will 4,000 such private assessments were funded in the make a statement on his meeting on 4 February school system last year. The Government has 2007 with the Northern Ireland Secretary, Mr. continued to provide resources for this matter in Peter Hain. [6076/07] every way possible through the various representative groups for autism with which the Minister 3. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach when he keeps in regular contact. Several support prog- next expects to meet the British Prime Minister rammes to help them exist. to discuss the situation in Northern Ireland. In addition, on the phased implementation of [6077/07] the Education for Persons with Special Edu- cational Needs Act 2004, in the next few years 4. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will parents who believe the needs of their child are report on recent contacts with the British not being met will have a process of mediation Government; and if he will make a statement on and appeal open to them. This is likely to prove the matter. [6337/07] more appropriate and less costly than obliging people to go through the courts, which is certainly 5. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach his proposals not the Government’s preferred option. The full for the establishment of an Oireachtas committee implementation of the Education for Persons to deal with Northern Ireland; and if he will make with Special Educational Needs Act will help in a statement on the matter. [6747/07] this regard. While many other issues arise in respect of 6. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will autism, I will conclude by raising one more. report on his recent contacts with the political Students who attend special autism-specific parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a classes have a maximum pupil-teacher ratio of statement on the matter. [6748/07] 6:1. A minimum of two special needs assistants are provided—— 7. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will Mr. Sargent: Some require one to one tuition. report on recent developments regarding the peace process in Northern Ireland; and if he will The Taoiseach: ——per class with the possi- make a statement on the matter. [6749/07] bility of additional special needs assistant posts being made available on a one to one basis, where 8. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach his recent required. Deputy Sargent should note this is contacts with the British Government; and if he already in existence. Significant support is now will make a statement on the matter. [6750/07] available in the area of teacher training through an accredited autism-specific course, an 9. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he has approach-specific course, on-line courses and finalised his itinerary for his planned trip to the through special education. Moreover, specialist United States over the St. Patrick’s Day 2007 school transport, equipment and accommodation period; and if he will make a statement on the is also funded. matter. [7295/07] 1195 Ceisteanna — 28 March 2007. Questions 1196

10. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if the Patrick’s Day trips in 2007, including the cost for arrangements for his forthcoming visit to the car or limousine hire; and if he will make a state- United States of America have been finalised; ment on the matter. [11369/07] and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7812/07] The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 22, inclusive, together. 11. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will On Monday, we were witness to truly unpre- convene a meeting of the Ireland America Econ- cedented developments in Northern Ireland. omic Advisory Board during his next visit to the Anyone with any sense of the history and United States; and if he will make a statement on troubles of this island understands the signifi- the matter. [7813/07] cance of the meeting between Sinn Feín and the DUP and their unequivocal agreement to restore 12. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his pro- the devolved institutions on 8 May. I know that posals for the establishment of an Oireachtas everyone in this House applauds these devel- committee on Northern Ireland matters; and if he opments which have the potential to transform will make a statement on the matter. [8365/07] the future of this island. I discussed the emerging situation with Prime 13. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will Minister Blair on several occasions over the report on his meeting with the Northern Ireland weekend and we also met in Berlin on Sunday. Secretary, Mr. Peter Hain. [8935/07] We also spoke on the telephone immediately fol- 14. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he lowing the Sinn Feín and the DUP announce- will report on his recent contacts with the political ment. In view of the absolute commitment to the parties in Northern Ireland. [8936/07] restoration of the Good Friday Agreement institutions, we agreed to accommodate the new date 15. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach his of 8 May. The Prime Minister and I will remain priorities for his visit to the United States over in touch over the coming period. Emergency the St. Patrick’s Day period. [8937/07] legislation was last night passed at Westminster to accommodate the new date for restoration. 16. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will Northern Ireland has moved into a new and report on his recent visit to the United States; and very positive place. We will continue to assist the if he will make a statement on the matter. parties in any way possible as they prepare [9536/07] together for restoration. I urge them to make the best use of the preparatory period now available 17. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will to ensure the new Executive will be able to dis- report on his recent meeting with US President charge its responsibilities with full and immediate George Bush; and if he will make a statement on effect from 8 May. I welcome the announcement the matter. [9537/07] that the preparation for government will include regular meetings between the future First and 18. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will Deputy First Ministers. make a statement on the outcome of his meeting On 4 February, the Minister for Foreign with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair on 9 Affairs and I met with the Northern Ireland Sec- March 2007. [9616/07] retary of State, Mr. Peter Hain, in Wales. We discussed progress on the Northern Ireland peace 19. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will process and its assembly election. That election, make a statement on the outcome of the assembly which was held on 7 March, was an integral part elections in Northern Ireland on 7 March of the process and timetable agreed at St. 2007. [9617/07] Andrews. The results of the election were a strong validation by the people of Northern 20. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of his visit to Ireland of the St. Andrews Agreement. It is grati- the United States over the 2007 St. Patrick’s Day fying that the parties have now responded to the period. [9618/07] will of the people. The improved financial package for Northern 21. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will Ireland that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, make a statement on his meetings with President Gordon Brown, revealed last week includes a Bush and other political leaders during his visit substantial contribution from the South, which to the United States over the 2007 St. Patrick’s will result in improved linkages between North Day period. [9619/07] and South benefiting everyone on this island. While the parties envisage further discussions on 22. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will the package with the Treasury, I hope that what report on the costs incurred by himself and by has already been announced will enable the new Ministers of State at his Department on St. Executive to have the scope and opportunity to 1197 Ceisteanna — 28 March 2007. Questions 1198 achieve real economic progress in Northern of Monday of this week. Undoubtedly however, Ireland. the Adams-Paisley agreement was truly historic As at all stages in the peace process, close con- and every effort must now be employed to ensure tact is maintained at different levels with the Brit- that the Executive and the all-Ireland Ministerial ish Government and with the political parties in Council are up and running as of 8 May. I ask Northern Ireland. During my visit to the US, I the Taoiseach to outline the support measures the had an opportunity for engagement with a Government will undertake to advance all- number of Northern politicians and, together Ireland development and strengthen the under- with the Minister for Finance and the Minister for pinning of the agreement. Does he agree such Foreign Affairs, I met a Sinn Feín delegation last infrastructural and other developments will be week. I continue to advance the proposal to essential if the new Executive is to thrive and establish a new joint Oireachtas committee on the grow? Will he confirm that among the infrastruc- implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. tural projects the Government is prepared to sup- Officials are currently working on drafting orders port will be an enhanced road service from of reference for a new joint committee. Dublin to the north west serving Derry and I visited the United States from 13 to 16 March Donegal? Will he ensure the commencement of to mark the St Patrick’s Day period. During this the long promised flagship project dating back to time, I visited New York, where I met the United the Good Friday Agreement of 1998, namely, the Nations Secretary General, Ban Ki-moon, and Ulster Canal project and all that can arise there- key representatives of the financial services from? Does he agree that not only is it achievable industry. I also visited the Twin Towers memorial but that it is also required that we ensure the full centre, spoke at the Council on Foreign Relations potential is realised with regard to co-operation and met a delegation from the Irish Lobby for in health care delivery in order that every citizen Immigration Reform. can benefit from the pooled health care I travelled to Washington on 14 March and resources, North and South? The same applies to attended the American Ireland Fund national education and a raft of other areas. gala dinner. On 15 March, I attended the Speak- It is just over one year since the Daíl unani- er’s lunch on Capitol Hill and had meetings with mously adopted a resolution calling on the British a large number of prominent US politicians, such Government to establish a full independent as Senators Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid and inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane at the Mitch McConnell. I also met the Friends of hands of British agents. Since then further infor- Ireland group and the Ireland America Economic mation has come to light on the extent of col- Advisory Board. lusion between British forces and loyalist para- On 16 March, I participated in the traditional military surrogates. This includes the report of ceremonies at the White House when I presented the police ombudsman, Nuala O’Loan. Does the President Bush with a bowl of shamrock. I then Taoiseach agree that this is a vital part of the met the President in the Oval Office for dis- peace process and will he report on the progress cussions on Northern Ireland, immigration made in pressing the British Prime Minister to reform and several other current international fully co-operate? With little time, presumably, issues. The support and encouragement of the remaining of the current British Prime Minister’s President and our friends in the United States for tenure in office, will the Taoiseach avail of the our efforts in securing agreement in Northern opportunity to seek and secure a summit with him Ireland is greatly appreciated. I particularly wel- to specifically address this area? Will he give us come the fact that the President was in contact this commitment today? directly with both Dr. Paisley and Gerry Adams Will the Taoiseach advise us on whether before last week. this day is out we will have sight of the details of During the St Patrick’s Day period, the Mini- the McEntee report on the Dublin and ster of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Monaghan bombings? What is he prepared to do Deputy Kitt, visited Warsaw from 14 to 18 March. on receipt of same? The Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Treacy, was in Ireland for St The Taoiseach: The agreement is an historic Patrick’s Day. Detailed costs arising from both landmark and an important development. I am the Minister of State’s visit to Poland and my visit delighted we reached such a pivotal point in what to the United States are not yet available. has been a long process. I would rather see the institutions being set up this week but having said CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: At the outset, I wish that, the negotiations, agreements and under- to record my warm welcome for the agreement standings are even more important. Undoubtedly, reached between the DUP and Sinn Feín on the it is a golden moment and an unprecedented full establishment of the Executive by 8 May. The hope. We all have to work to ensure it will hap- Taoiseach is aware that Sinn Feín would have pen. We can see the agreement was front page preferred the Executive and all the other bodies news yesterday on every continent. In the Middle that arise from it to have been up and running as East stations took an enormous interest and 1199 Ceisteanna — 28 March 2007. Questions 1200

[The Taoiseach.] and the north west, including in particular the carried headlines throughout the day. It is a good development of a dual carriageway standard road message that a peace process can work and make to Derry and Donegal. This will remove the sin- progress. I know every peace process is different gle largest impediment to the future development but at least it gives encouragement to many work- of the entire north west and the Border counties. ing on others. To make last week’s announcement meaningful, Anyone with a sense of history of the Troubles we have provided additional resources which the will understand the meaning of all of this. There Minister for Finance approved last week. is no doubt that the meeting and agreement I understand the British Government signed a between Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams mark an retail consortium agreement with major compan- historic juncture. For the first time all of the par- ies to provide additional jobs in Northern Ireland ties in Northern Ireland have agreed on a way and that the financial package also contains a forward together. It is hoped in the years to come commitment to carry out a review of the differ- this will prove to be unprecedented, very positive ences in tax rates, North and South. This is an and welcome. It is important that we move on in important initiative. I have been supportive of the an entirely new spirit to implement all aspects of various groups lobbying for it during the past 18 the agreement. We have a few weeks to under- months. take a lot of preparatory work. I am glad the First Regarding the Finucane case, I met Geraldine Minister and Deputy First Minister elect will Finucane in the United States. This year a resol- engage directly during this period. It is enor- ution was passed in the US Senate which was mously important that no more time is lost. We another important step. There is great interest in have lost enough but will be positive that this can the case, on which I reported at length at a meet- happen. I hope for a lot of early engagement and ing of the Friends of Ireland at which there was that everyone will agree that the delay is a price a large attendance, the biggest I have seen since worth paying and that at least we can all sign up 1998. I should add that in the recent election a to it. number of new Friends of Ireland were elected, From the Government’s perspective, I can con- including a number of young members. This adds firm the work we have done on two fronts on to our list of contacts for the future and I thank North-South bodies. The staff of the North-South them for their engagement. I brought them bodies and those involved in various Government through the Finucane case, of which they were agencies across the system are ready to move on well aware, the various initiatives taken in the issues which were held up and work on new ones past year, the difficulty with the inquiry and the on a North-South basis. This was always the Government’s stand on it. Throughout the past dynamic of the Good Friday Agreement and I am year both the Minister for Foreign Affairs, totally committed to this work. We can make Deputy Dermot Ahern, and I raised the issue at enormous progress in a range of areas without every meeting with the British Prime Minister creating difficulties for anybody and are prepared and other Ministers. I reported before on the to do so, as we showed during the interregnum difficulties and the position of the British period and through our support for Derry airport Government so I will not repeat that. We will when major difficulties arose last year. continue to do this. Deputy O´ Caolaín asked about the financial It is not a question of having a separate meet- package. Last week the Chancellor of the ing as every time we meet members of the British Exchequer, Gordon Brown, announced that Government on this we put forward our strong Northern Ireland would benefit from an views to Secretary of State Hain, other Ministers improved financial package on top of the and the Prime Minister Blair, and we will con- measures announced on 1 November if the par- tinue to do so in trying to bring finality to these ties agreed to restore the Northern Ireland cases. Executive. This package consists of a sum of £35 I have received the McEntee report and I am billion over the next four years and will provide trying to work my way through it. I have not gone support for an £18 billion capital investment through it completely yet but there are a number strategy during the next ten years. The improved of points on which I will have to seek legal advice package also contains an additional sum of £1 from the Attorney General. I hope to give it to billion, of which £400 million will comes from the him so he can deal with it as soon as I have got Government to improve infrastructure and job through it — my officials have just about got prospects in Northern Ireland, specifically roads through it. I will not delay and it is my intention, and infrastructure in the north west. as soon as I receive the legal advice, to publish In January the national development plan iden- the report. tified key areas for North-South joint investment On the provisions of the committee of investi- initiatives which included a list of new strategic gations, I may not have got this right the last time projects. It is proposed to complete a high quality I answered a question by Deputy Rabbitte when road network on the inter-urban routes linking I stated that we would redact the names, as we the major population centres of Dublin, Belfast did with other reports, but on checking that, we 1201 Ceisteanna — 28 March 2007. Questions 1202 cannot do so with the committee of investi- or it will be after it. I do not think it will be recon- gations. I believed the case to be similar to the stituted before that. That will be a call for the Barron and other reports, but one of my officials Secretary of State but with the ongoing dis- brought to my attention what I said so if I misled cussions and negotiations, they will probably be the House on the issue, I apologise. done together. There was no particular endorse- I must publish the report as it is and I will have ment of how it would be done other than there to get the legal requirements right, but there will would be co-operation. be no redaction. The report will be published as it is given to me. Mr. Rabbitte: Does the Taoiseach believe it will be done quickly afterwards? Mr. Rabbitte: All of us wished that the institutions would have been up and running in full The Taoiseach: I think so. There are no out- from last Monday’s date. Nonetheless, what has standing reasons it cannot be reconstituted and happened is a landmark development. I had the moved on. opportunity yesterday to pay tribute to the I have no particular information on the arms Taoiseach on his role and patience in bringing issue. There are still subversive groups, though about that position. What does the Taoiseach small in number and dedicated in their unhelpful anticipate in respect of Sinn Feín’s participation mission. They are still about and there have been in the newly constituted policing board and the some reports of activities, all from the usual district partnerships? Is that likely to happen this sources. They still take up quite a large amount side of 8 May and will there be progress and of effort and resources. There is always the worry development in that regard? that they can strike and create problems. It is I also ask the Taoiseach about the activity of always when progress is being made that we dissident republicans. I presume he saw the worry most about these elements. Up to 8 May remarks made in the House of Commons yester- there will be heightened surveillance of these day by William McCrea, who asserted that arms groups. were imported into Northern Ireland last week. On the North-South issues, I have had the What, in broad terms, is the intelligence available Deputy’s letter checked by legal people and the to the Taoiseach on the threat from dissident Department, and we are almost ready to reply. I republicans in that regard? will provide a lengthy reply, dealing with many North-South bodies have been on a care and issues. The end result is that everybody who maintenance basis since the suspension of the examined the letter, which contained good points, assembly. Is legislation required in this House is satisfied that under the terms of the existing with regard to their functioning as envisaged in legislation, particularly the British-Irish Agree- the Good Friday Agreement? I wrote to the ment Act 1999, the bodies are fully and properly Taoiseach some weeks ago in that regard and I accountable to the Oireachtas. They are satisfied wonder whether he has had an opportunity to the necessary legislation is in place to provide for examine the issue? Will he state his position? appropriate parliamentary accountability of State Was the North-South interparliamentary forum bodies. I will give the Deputy a full reply contain- discussed during the negotiations and what is the ing references and analyses. The Deputy will position now? This has been one of the outstand- accept that many of the points are of a legal nat- ing issues since the signing of the Good Friday ure, but I have had them cross-checked. Agreement. With regard to the parliamentary forum, the In respect of our contribution of \400 million Minister for Foreign Affairs is anxious for us to to the \1 billion fund advanced by the Chancellor move on that. When I attended the British-Irish the Exchequer, is that contribution from the Irish Interparliamentary Body recently I spoke to Exchequer in addition to the allocation to the members on the issues. There is an opportunity North-South projects as envisaged in the national now, in the parliamentary and the British-Irish development plan? forum, to get back to where we were. It will prob- There was some unexpected advice by the ably not happen this side of the summer but we Government Whip to the Opposition Whips on should try to get the parliamentary groups and 13 January regarding a North-South committee. forums together in the autumn, with a new Daíl Is that still on the agenda and is it intended that and Assembly, with the imminent changes that anything will happen in this respect in the lifetime will take place across the water. The ideal time of this Daíl? would be late September or early October, with all of them being done together. Everybody is The Taoiseach: I thank Deputy Rabbitte for his agreed they should go on so we should move on acknowledgement of my role, which I appreciate. it. On policing, I do not believe anything will hap- Discussions with the Government Whip are pen prior to 8 May other than discussions will still active and I would like to finalise those take place. The board will have to be reconsti- issues. We will probably not get much work done tuted and I assume that will coincide with 8 May on them in the life of this Daíl but we could at 1203 Ceisteanna — 28 March 2007. Questions 1204

[The Taoiseach.] money goes towards integrated education and the least have arrangements made to start in a new fund is making good progress. It would have been Daíl term. We could agree the arrangements or a difficult area in Northern Ireland. The large enhance them if possible. number of projects, albeit small in overall terms, Regarding resources, the money will be are making a good impact and doing good work additional to make the package meaningful, build through committed people. on the initiatives of the national development As we move on and like the American Ireland plan and help the dynamics of last week. As Fund, a lot of our efforts must tackle the issues Deputy Rabbitte will appreciate, there was a lot around sectarianism, to try to make changes that of work in the background surrounding the were not possible in the past and to breathe new events in the past few days, a big part of which life into the issue. concerned the economic issue. For us to make a meaningful package and to work with the Treas- Mr. Sargent: Housing also. ury and Chancellor Gordon Brown, it was our considered view that we should take a whole- The Taoiseach: Yes, on the systems and allo- hearted approach, which has been acknowledged cation of housing. The Deputy raised the children by Dr. Paisley, Gerry Adams, the British Govern- issue yesterday. I have talked to the Minister for ment and the other parties in the North. Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, about it and he has his officials working on it. There is Mr. Sargent: I acknowledge the role of the ongoing dialogue through the Minister of State, Taoiseach and the Government and the Green Deputy Brian Lenihan, but we have asked to Party and all parties welcome the level of stability bring the matter to a conclusion. In the interreg- that has been brought to Northern politics. Last num, we will try to make progress. We have Friday, I was glad to be in Stormont to meet my moved a long way. newly elected Green Party colleague, Brian The same is the case in respect of the all-island Wilson. The assembly is changing and developing energy market. Work is almost complete. I have alongside wider society. Given that the category not been updated on it for some time, but it was of “Other” in the assembly is growing, is there at an advanced stage. It should not take too long any hope there will be a reduction in the level of to complete. segregation, particularly in terms of housing and education? Is it the plan of the Governments and Mr. Sargent: My other question was on the the assembly to address these issues, which EPA. should be a priority if we are to have any recon- The Taoiseach: Is the Deputy referring to an ciliation in society and not just between the all-island basis? politicians? Regarding all-island institutions, I would like Mr. Sargent: The Taoiseach might examine to press the urgency of bringing forward the regis- the issue. ter of persons considered unsafe to work with children. In the wider context of energy strategy, The Taoiseach: I will. in which the Minister for Foreign Affairs is interested thanks to his previous portfolio, what Mr. Kenny: What progress has been made in hope is there that we will genuinely and effec- equalising the corporation tax rate? Some 68% of tively develop on an all-island basis the energy the economy in Northern Ireland is driven by revolution being discussed in the European Com- public administration. With a limited number of mission? The Environmental Protection Agency exporting companies, it needs serious attention if is hampered by the fact it cannot operate as a it is to grow in comparison to the growth rates single organisation on an all-island basis. Does it in the Republic during the past ten years. The form part of the Government’s objective? Taoiseach realises that one cannot have an imbal- Yesterday, the Cabinet discussed the long- ance between the Twenty-six Counties and the awaited report of the 1974 Dublin-Monaghan Six Counties during the next decade. Are there bombings. Are we to debate collusion before the discussions on the matter or is Chancellor Brown Daíl rises? I understood the Government hoped making progress? It is difficult, as others may to publish the findings before Easter. Will the want investment in different parts of the British Taoiseach arrange a debate in the House? Isles. Will the Taoiseach update the House on the The Taoiseach: We should have a debate on provision of the North-South interconnector? For collusion. It will be during this Daíl. I thank a long time, the interconnector has been needed Deputy Sargent for his remarks. to apply downward pressure on electricity prices. On the first issue, we have invested an It would not be physically difficult to provide increased amount of resources in the American the infrastructure. Ireland Fund, which is dealing with the issue of I agree with the Taoiseach on the dual car- the segregation of education. A large part of the riageway from Derry to Donegal, as it is a neces- 1205 Ceisteanna — 28 March 2007. Questions 1206 sary and major piece of infrastructure. The N11 all-island basis. We should try to do so in the or N16 road from Enniskillen to Sligo, which the health sector, for example. The North has made Taoiseach visited recently, is bad and has seen advances in some areas, just as we have in other a number of serious accidents. Does that cross- areas. It is an ideal issue for co-operation. In the Border infrastructure not deserve attention? education sector, the universities have been co- Despite the North-South business, that major operating for the past seven or eight years. Other artery is clogged and the NRA does not give it organisations like the chambers of commerce the priority it deserves. need to get involved. The trade union movement In the next decade, does the Taoiseach foresee has always been organised on an all-island basis. a convergence of the economic development of We need to focus on the dynamics of trying to the island of Ireland? In due course, there may get co-operation to work in a way that helps be political convergence, but ours is a small island Northern Ireland and the South. Labour market on the edge of Europe, which is facing challenges issues will be hugely helpful. from the United States and the Far East. Mr. J. Higgins: When the Taoiseach met Pres- The Taoiseach: The Deputy raised a number of ident Bush in Washington recently, he presented issues. Work on the interconnector is continuing him with a bowl of green shamrock. Does he and is well advanced. Money in the national agree that it might have been more appropriate development plan has been provided for it. We to present Mr. Bush with a bunch of red clover have been supportive of the Border corridor of to symbolise the blood-drenched cataclysm that Sligo-Enniskillen-Dundalk, as it is hugely he and the rest of the US Administration have important for the economic development of the visited on the unfortunate people of Iraq? The region. The last three Border roads will be open fourth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq was by the summer and will allow far more contact four days after the Taoiseach tipped the cap to and activity, whereas many of the towns and vil- Mr. Bush. The recent meeting may have been the lages were separated for three decades. Taoiseach’s last time, in his current position, to On the tax issue, two good things have hap- meet Mr. Bush. Did the Taoiseach ask the US pened. We will not see a change overnight, as I President for an explanation of, or an apology for, predicted. I urged the parties not to get into that the utterly fraudulent reason he gave the space on it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Taoiseach for the invasion? Did Mr. Bush offer Mr. Gordon Brown, indicated in his budget this any such explanation or apology? Many of us day last week that he intends to reduce the UK knew at the time that President Bush’s expla- rate of corporation tax from 30% to 28%. That, nation was an exercise in outrageous mendacity, in itself, is a move in the right direction. More although the Taoiseach professed to believe him. importantly, during the discussions with Mr. Did the Taoiseach discuss the future of Iraq Brown last week, to which we contributed, a com- with President Bush? Did he ask him to get out mitment was made to carry out a review of the of Iraq and to allow the Iraqi people to work out different tax rates between North and South. I their future without the interference of the US? am pleased about that because that is what we Did the Taoiseach discuss with Mr. Bush the required. Until now, the groups lobbying for this Government’s collaboration in the use by the US change were talking about it in a general sense. of Shannon Airport for troops on their way to The economic case needs to be made, as participate in the invasion and occupation of Deputy Kenny said. The huge over-dependence Iraq? Did the Taoiseach pledge to continue that on the public sector is the difficulty, as is recog- collaboration? nised now by the political system. The business Following the Taoiseach’s discussions in the community in the North has always acknow- United States, what is the current position in ledged that. There is an enormous imbalance in respect of the tens of thousands of Irish people that regard. I hope the analysis will not bear out who are living in fear of deportation because they the British Government’s big fear about making do not have the proper papers to stay there? Did the change. It cannot be compared with Wales or the Taoiseach get any new assurances, or any new Scotland. That was not just going to happen as a hope of security, for those Irish men and women political decision, the case had to be proven by who wish to make their lives in the United States economic analysis. I am pleased about that. It will on a permanent basis and in peace of mind? not just be good for tax, it will also be good to see how we can integrate far more of the economic The Taoiseach: I discussed a range of inter- realities without upsetting people. national issues, including Iraq, with President I have been advocating co-operation on these Bush. The Americans are continuing to work issues for a long time, again without creating diffi- with the elected Government in Iraq to try to culties. We need the same type of co-operation bring peace and some harmony to that war-torn we have seen in areas like agriculture, fisheries area. Certain problems are continuing to this day, and disease eradication. There is no way we can unfortunately — a large number of people were sort out certain problems without working on an killed in Iraq today. I think the US Admini- 1207 Requests to move Adjournment of 28 March 2007. Daíl under Standing Order 31 1208

[The Taoiseach.] Requests to move Adjournment of Daíl under stration would be glad to be able to finish its man- Standing Order 31. date in Iraq by leaving a more peaceful society An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the there, but that does not seem likely in the short Order of Business, I propose to deal with a term. President Bush is of the view that the US is number of notices under Standing Order 31. making progress in Iraq and is playing an important role in trying to bring stability to that Mr. McHugh: I wish to seek the adjournment country. Deputy Higgins knows my view is that of the Daíl under Standing Order 31 to discuss a the Government did not support the war in its matter of national and local importance, namely, early stages because it did not have a UN man- the threatened closure of Seamount date. Obviously, when the UN mandate came 12 o’clock College in Kinvara, County Galway; some time later, we supported the US position. and the refusal of the Minister for I met representatives of the Irish Lobby for Education and Science to deal effectively with the threat of its closure; the lack of spare capacity in Immigration Reform during my recent visit to the the other two secondary schools in the area, Gort United States. The case of the undocumented Community School and Calasanctius College in Irish was one of the key issues I raised with Pres- Oranmore; the steps she intends to take to enable ident Bush, the Speaker of the House of Rep- Seamount College to survive into the future; the resentatives, Mrs. Nancy Pelosi, Mr. Niall need for the Minister to report to the House on O’Dowd of the Irish Lobby for Immigration her discussions with the Mercy Sisters; and the Reform and our colleagues in both houses on arrangements the Minister proposes to make to Capitol Hill. The Minister for Foreign Affairs, provide for an intake of first year students to Sea- Deputy Dermot Ahern, keeps in touch with that mount College next September. campaign every week. We have received a great deal of support on this enormously difficult and Mr. M. Higgins: In accordance with the terms complex issue, which affects 12 million people, of of Standing Order 31, I seek the adjournment of whom between 25,000 and 30,000 are Irish. The the Daíl to discuss the following matter of public undocumented Irish do not present the biggest interest: the urgent need for the Government to difficulty within the overall issue. We need to try act with swiftness in order to ameliorate the to reach agreement or devise some legislative for- deteriorated and unsafe condition of Galway’s water supply that is causing intolerable distress to mula that can be moved forward. families in the city and various parts of the Senator Edward Kennedy, who is the leading county; the need for capital moneys to be made supporter of immigration reform, is hugely sym- available to Galway City Council and Galway pathetic to the Irish case. The Bill he is proposing County Council to enable them to upgrade their was approved by the Senate judiciary committee filtration systems; the need to ensure all requests last year. Everybody agrees that Senator for measures to prevent an outbreak in the future Kennedy’s Bill should be the starting point for a and any temporary measures that may need to be new means of addressing the issue legislatively. taken will be heard speedily and acted upon; and He is having direct conversations with President that the Minister for the Environment, Heritage Bush, people on the other side of Congress and and Local Government will allocate such neces- the Speaker of the House of Representatives, sary funding. In view of the importance of the Mrs. Nancy Pelosi. We are supportive of this issue, I hope the Ceann Comhairle will agree to initiative and we hope it will be successful. It is this request. an issue of timing. We have to leave it to Senator Kennedy and his supporters to decide when this Mr. McCormack: Under the terms of Standing Bill will be tabled. I suspect that it will be intro- Order 31, I seek the suspension of business of the duced in the next month or two. That will be an House to discuss the following matter of national important step forward. The support of the White importance: the contamination of the water sup- House is needed if this legislative change is to be ply of Galway city and surrounding areas with the made. We have the support of the Speaker of the parasite known as cryptosporidium, resulting in the contamination of water to 90,000 homes, over House of Representatives. We certainly need the 100 reported cases of illness, including the hospi- assistance of those who support Senator talisation of some, and the particular threat posed Kennedy, who is a senior Senator. A 60-40 vote to those with weakened immune systems. in the Senate is needed, in effect, if this is to become a reality. Senator Kennedy is the only Mr. Healy: I seek the adjournment of the Daíl person who can get the necessary support on the under Standing Order 31 to discuss a matter Republican side of the house. The support of the requiring urgent attention: the need for the Mini- President is also needed. We are trying to work ster of State at the Department of Finance to with the three groups to get support for this develop Ormond Castle, Carrick-on-Suir as a sig- measure and I think it is possible. nificant heritage site, including the erection of a visitor centre, the provision of car and bus park- 1209 Order of 28 March 2007. Business 1210 ing facilities and the need for the Minister of concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1 p.m. State to make a statement on the matter. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, Mr. Cuffe: Under the terms of Standing Order include only those set down or accepted by the 31, I seek the adjournment of the Daíl to discuss Minister for the Environment, Heritage and a specific matter of urgent importance: that the Local Government; that Report and Final Stages Minister for Transport make a statement to the of No. 22 shall be taken today and that the pro- Daíl on the reasons for the major pile-up on the ceedings thereon shall, if not previously con- N7, M7 and M9 motorways yesterday and state cluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.45 p.m. by whether there were adequate warning or reduce one question which shall be put from the Chair speed signs in operation during periods when and which shall, in relation to amendments, there was fog yesterday morning and this include only those set down or accepted by the morning. Minister for Foreign Affairs; that Report and Final Stages of No. 23 shall be taken today and Mr. J. Higgins: I seek the adjournment of the that the proceedings thereon shall, if not pre- Daíl to discuss the decision by the Government viously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at not to reduce the fees paid to lawyers at the plan- 10.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put ning tribunal; the implications of this decision for from the Chair and which shall, in relation to the taxpayers of the State in terms of exorbitant amendments, include only those set down or costs into the future; and to afford the Tańaiste accepted by the Minister for Health and Children. and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Private Members’ business shall be No. 37, Reform an opportunity to apologise to Daíl Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007 — E´ ireann for his criticism of the costs of the tri- Second Stage (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m. bunal when he set the level of fees. An Ceann Comhairle: Is the proposal for the An Ceann Comhairle: It is not appropriate to late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for go beyond the notice submitted to my office. dealing with No. 21, Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2007, Report and Final Stages, agreed? Ms C. Murphy: I seek the adjournment of the Daíl to discuss a matter of national and local Mr. Kenny: I established before that we importance: that the majority of social and afford- objected to these three Bills being passed with able housing units acquired by Kildare County the use of the guillotine. We have made the Council have been small, two-bedroom apart- point previously. ments. The results of a Dublin City Council quality of life survey indicate that only 25% of apart- Mr. Stagg: Standing Orders were established ment dwellers in Dublin still expect to be living over a long period of time to ensure the Execu- in a flat in the future, a cause of great concern. I tive would be kept accountable by the House in call on the Minister for the Environment, Heri- matters of legislation. We are witnessing panic on tage and Local Government to ensure the way the part of the Government to rush legislation. in which Part V social and affordable housing is On many occasions in the last term there was no delivered is changed to track the number of units legislation available to debate. The need for the delivered but also the variety of housing types required accountability and scrutiny that Stand- and sizes made available to applicants. ing Orders must ensure is set aside by the Government on a regular basis to pass legislation An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the on a rubber stamp basis. Standing Orders were matters raised, they are not in order under Stand- not designed to do this and we are opposed to ing Order 31. such an approach. This week the debate on eight Bills will be guillotined by setting aside Standing Order of Business. Orders. It was the intention that Standing Orders would be set aside only in exceptional circum- The Taoiseach: It is proposed to take No. 21, stances, yet there are eight cases involving non- Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2007 — Order for exceptional circumstances where Standing Orders Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 22, Euro- are to be set aside to allow legislation brought pean Communities Bill 2006 [Seanad] — Order forward by the Executive to be rubber stamped. for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 23, We oppose this proposal. Medical Practitioners Bill 2007 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages. Mr. Sargent: The Government has forgotten It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in the basic principle that one should not use the Standing Orders, that the Daíl shall sit later than guillotine unless one has to. No explanation has 8.30 p.m. and that business shall be interrupted been given. Does the Government consider the not later than 10.30 p.m; that Report and Final Daíl to be an inconvenience and is use of the Stages of No. 21 shall be taken today and that guillotine a way to get through business without the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously being accountable? I ask that we desist from use 1211 Order of 28 March 2007. Business 1212

[Mr. Sargent.] ies in legislation. There are many examples of of the guillotine when there is no explanation as rushed legislation in recent years with no oppor- to why it is needed. tunity being given to properly address amendments and the reflective opinion of Opposition CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Little can be added to Deputies on deficiencies in legislation. I urge the what has been said because Deputy Stagg Taoiseach to prompt a revisitation of this covered the key points. On behalf of my col- approach. leagues in Sinn Feín, I make the point that this is Question put: “That the proposal for dealing an abuse of the House and will lead to deficienc- with No. 21 be agreed to.”

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 71; Nı´l, 56.

Ta´

Ahern, Bertie. Keaveney, Cecilia. Ahern, Dermot. Kelleher, Billy. Ahern, Noel. Kelly, Peter. Andrews, Barry. Killeen, Tony. Ardagh, Seań. Kirk, Seamus. Blaney, Niall. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Johnny. Lenihan, Brian. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Conor. Browne, John. McDowell, Michael. Callanan, Joe. McEllistrim, Thomas. Carey, Pat. McGuinness, John. Carty, John. Moloney, John. Cassidy, Donie. Mulcahy, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Coughlan, Mary. O´ Fearghaı´l, Seań. Cregan, John. O’Connor, Charlie. Cullen, Martin. O’Dea, Willie. Curran, John. O’Donnell, Liz. Davern, Noel. O’Donoghue, John. Dempsey, Noel. O’Flynn, Noel. Dempsey, Tony. O’Keeffe, Batt. Dennehy, John. O’Keeffe, Ned. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Fiona. Ellis, John. O’Malley, Tim. Fahey, Frank. Parlon, Tom. Finneran, Michael. Power, Peter. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Power, Seań. Fleming, Seań. Roche, Dick. Gallagher, Pat The Cope. Smith, Brendan. Glennon, Jim. Treacy, Noel. Grealish, Noel. Wallace, Dan. Harney, Mary. Wallace, Mary. Haughey, Seań. Walsh, Joe. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Wilkinson, Ollie. Hoctor, Maíre. Woods, Michael. Jacob, Joe.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Kenny, Enda. Broughan, Thomas P. Lynch, Kathleen. Bruton, Richard. McCormack, Pa´draic. Connaughton, Paul. McGinley, Dinny. Connolly, Paudge. McGrath, Finian. Costello, Joe. McGrath, Paul. Cowley, Jerry. McHugh, Paddy. Crawford, Seymour. McManus, Liz. Cuffe, Ciarań. Mitchell, Olivia. Deasy, John. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Deenihan, Jimmy. Murphy, Catherine. Durkan, Bernard J. Naughten, Denis. Enright, Olwyn. Neville, Dan. Ferris, Martin. O´ Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. Gilmore, Eamon. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Gormley, John. O’Dowd, Fergus. Hayes, Tom. O’Keeffe, Jim. Healy, Seamus. O’Shea, Brian. Higgins, Joe. O’Sullivan, Jan. Higgins, Michael D. Pattison, Seamus. Hogan, Phil. Penrose, Willie. Howlin, Brendan. Quinn, Ruairı´. Kehoe, Paul. Rabbitte, Pat. 1213 Order of 28 March 2007. Business 1214

Nı´l—continued

Ryan, Eamon. Stagg, Emmet. Ryan, Sea´n. Timmins, Billy. Sargent, Trevor. Twomey, Liam. Sherlock, Joe. Upton, Mary. Shortall, Ro´ isı´n. Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg.

Question declared carried. An Ceann Comhairle: Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23, Medical Practitioners Bill 2007, An Ceann Comhairle: Is the proposal for deal- Order for Report and Report and Final Stages, ing with No. 22, European Communities Bill agreed to? 2006, Order for Report and Report and Final Stages, agreed to? Deputies: No. Deputies: No. Question, “That the proposal for dealing with Question put: “That the proposal for dealing No. 22 be agreed to,” put and declared carried. with No. 23 be agreed to.”

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 72; Nı´l, 54.

Ta´

Ahern, Bertie. Keaveney, Cecilia. Ahern, Dermot. Kelleher, Billy. Ahern, Noel. Kelly, Peter. Andrews, Barry. Killeen, Tony. Ardagh, Seań. Kirk, Seamus. Blaney, Niall. Kitt, Tom. Brady, Johnny. Lenihan, Brian. Brady, Martin. Lenihan, Conor. Browne, John. McDowell, Michael. Callanan, Joe. McEllistrim, Thomas. Carey, Pat. McGuinness, John. Carty, John. Moloney, John. Cassidy, Donie. Mulcahy, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Coughlan, Mary. O´ Fearghaı´l, Seań. Cregan, John. O’Connor, Charlie. Cullen, Martin. O’Dea, Willie. Curran, John. O’Donnell, Liz. Davern, Noel. O’Donoghue, John. Dempsey, Noel. O’Flynn, Noel. Dempsey, Tony. O’Keeffe, Batt. Dennehy, John. O’Keeffe, Ned. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Fiona. Ellis, John. O’Malley, Tim. Fahey, Frank. Parlon, Tom. Finneran, Michael. Power, Peter. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. Power, Seań. Fleming, Seań. Roche, Dick. Gallagher, Pat The Cope. Sexton, Mae. Glennon, Jim. Smith, Brendan. Grealish, Noel. Treacy, Noel. Harney, Mary. Wallace, Dan. Haughey, Seań. Wallace, Mary. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Walsh, Joe. Hoctor, Maíre. Wilkinson, Ollie. Jacob, Joe. Woods, Michael.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Deasy, John. Broughan, Thomas P. Deenihan, Jimmy. Bruton, Richard. Durkan, Bernard J. Connaughton, Paul. Enright, Olwyn. Connolly, Paudge. Ferris, Martin. Costello, Joe. Gilmore, Eamon. Cowley, Jerry. Gormley, John. Crawford, Seymour. Hayes, Tom. Cuffe, Ciara´n. Healy, Seamus. 1215 Order of 28 March 2007. Business 1216

Nı´l—continued

Higgins, Joe. O’Dowd, Fergus. Higgins, Michael D. O’Keeffe, Jim. Hogan, Phil. O’Shea, Brian. Howlin, Brendan. O’Sullivan, Jan. Kehoe, Paul. Pattison, Seamus. Kenny, Enda. Penrose, Willie. Lynch, Kathleen. Quinn, Ruairı´. McCormack, Pa´draic. Rabbitte, Pat. McGinley, Dinny. Ryan, Eamon. McGrath, Paul. Ryan, Seań. McManus, Liz. Sargent, Trevor. Mitchell, Olivia. Sherlock, Joe. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Shortall, Ro´ isıń. Murphy, Catherine. Stagg, Emmet. Naughten, Denis. Timmins, Billy. Neville, Dan. Twomey, Liam. O´ Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. Upton, Mary. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Kehoe and Stagg.

Question declared carried. Mr. Kenny: ——but we still have to debate the Harris report on the quality of Irish language in Mr. Kenny: Under the legislation setting up the primary schools. We have had no publication tribunals, is it intended to implement the Govern- from the Minister, Deputy O´ Cuı´v, of the regu- ment decision to reduce fees for persons serving lations covering the Gaeltacht areas and no publi- on the Mahon and Moriarty tribunals? cation from the Minister for Education and Science of the proposed changes to the curricu- An Ceann Comhairle: That matter does not lum. It is proposed to have those matters dis- arise on the Order of Business. cussed or reports on them published before the Mr. Kenny: The Chair is being very—— white flag is raised?

An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair will assist the The Taoiseach: On the Harris report, I raised Deputy in finding another way to raise this it previously with the Minister for Education and matter. Science and I will raise it with her again. I cannot recall what I said about it the last time so I had Mr. J. O’Keeffe: What arises are the rising law- better check it. yers’ fees which were supposed to be cut. Mr. Kenny: It appeared on the Order Paper at Mr. Kenny: Under the regulations setting up one stage and then it disappeared. the Dublin Airport Authority, is it proposed to give effect to the commitment that Cork Airport The Taoiseach: I do not believe she agreed to should be debt free on becoming an indepen- publish it but I will ask her about it again. dent board? Mr. Rabbitte: During Question Time yesterday An Ceann Comhairle: That matter does not the Taoiseach was asked how the discussions arise either on the Order of Business. about fees at the Mahon tribunal were going and Mr. Allen: It does, charges are increasing. he said “I can ... inform the Deputy that those matters remain under discussion”. He said later An Ceann Comhairle: I do not want to spend that “I stated [already] that those matters are time reading Standing Order 26 but I will do so ongoing”. The matters had been decided earlier if necessary. in the morning and the Taoiseach was there. Why does he give answers like that to the House? Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach made a mighty burst at the auld Irish language on Saturday Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I have a question on night. I was in Berlin at a meeting of the EPP and the same matter. It was I who asked the question did not get to see him. on the Mahon tribunal. I wanted clarification on it because clearly the record of the House showed Mr. Roche: The Deputy can check the video. that the Taoiseach indicated that the issue of fees in the Mahon case was “[still] under discussion”. Mr. Kenny: I am not sure what the Taoiseach When did the Cabinet meeting take place yester- said—— day? We learned this morning that the decision had been taken. Mr. Rabbitte: He is not sure himself. 1217 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1218

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has made lation to Member of the House is in excess of that his point. which is allowed for in the Constitution. Second, it is likely that the variance that exists in the ratio Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: The decision was cer- of Member to population as between one con- tainly taken yesterday to continue the old fee stituency and another is outside the tolerance structure. If an error has occurred here, whatever which has been allowed by the courts to date in way it has occurred, the Taoiseach has a responsi- respect of the principle of equality of rep- bility to correct the record. resentation. In response to those issues at the time, the The Taoiseach: The position is that discussions Minister stated that it was his position and advice are ongoing with the Minister, a group of officials that what mattered here for the purposes of the and the Mahon tribunal on a number of issues. Constitution was not the provisional census fig- Until those discussions are concluded, the fees ures but the official figures when published. I stay in place. It is not a question that we have draw his attention to the indication on the CSO changed it. That is the position and I do not website that it is intended to publish the final believe it has changed. I had gone to lunch with official figures on 26 April by which stage we will the President of Slovakia so I was not actually have the official figures by area and by popu- there. I did not even know that they had extended lation. Will the Minister inform the House as to it further but I knew that the discussions were what is his advice in respect of that? If the general ongoing, and that is still the position. election does not take place before 26 April, which appears to be the likely scenario, what will Mr. Allen: I indicated that I was offering. be the position post-26 April if by then the official census figures are published? As we know An Ceann Comhairle: A number of Members from past experience, it is likely that the official did so but it is now 12.35 p.m. and the debate we figures will confirm to within perhaps 100 or 150 are moving on to is due to conclude at 1 p.m. the figures that were released in the provisional figures. Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2007: Report and Final Stages. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): I thank the Mr. Gilmore: I move amendment No. 1: Deputy for raising both those matters. He has In page 12, between lines 11 and 12, to insert raised a fair point. As I explained on several the following: occasions in the past, with regard to the census figures, the Deputy’s latter point is correct in that 2.—The provisions of section 1 regarding the difference between the provisional and out- the manner of making nominations shall come census figures is likely to be marginal. apply with any necessary modifications to There will be variances when we get down to the European and local elections in lieu of the level we need to get for the drafting of constitu- relevant provisions of the European Parlia- ency boundaries. Historically, that is where there ment Elections Act 1997 and Local Elections have been significant differences. We do not Regulations 1985 as amended by the Elec- know the variances until we have sight of the fig- toral (Amendment) Act 2002. ures. The Deputy is correct in that it will be the This issue was discussed on Committee Stage. It last week in April that the CSO will publish the is related to the question of whether the legis- figures. As I indicated, as soon as figures as pub- lation also requires to be amended in respect of lished, I intend to trigger the mechanism which local elections and the European Parliament elec- will appoint the boundaries commission, which tions. The Minister indicated on Committee Stage will then have six months to report and thereafter that it was intended to bring forward amending legislation will have to be introduced. That is legislation in respect of the Local Government entirely in accordance with the constitutional pro- Act, which applies to local elections, and the visions, the law and the practice that has been European Parliament Elections Act. Arising from adopted in the past. that I indicated that I would withdraw the amend- My advice is firmly based on Supreme Court ment. I invite the Minister to record that such judgments. The position is that we use the final legislation will be brought forward in which case and not the preliminary figures. Preliminary fig- I expect I will respond correspondingly. ures are simply preliminary and notwithstanding I would like the Minister to address a related that the variation between the preliminary and issue. He will recall that when we debated the final figures tends to be minor, the final figures electoral legislation earlier this year the question are those specified in legislation. arose as to the revision of the constituencies and I agree with Deputy Gilmore that it is neces- the position vis-a`-vis the census. At that stage sary to redraft the legislation for both local and what we had available to us were the provisional European elections. As I explained on Commit- census figures. As we know the provisional fig- tee Stage, we have adopted a different approach ures, which were published last July, indicate that than was previously adopted. It was a case of in the case of one constituency the ratio of popu- picking a line and making a change which is an 1219 Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1220

[Mr. Roche.] be the composition of the constituencies com- unsatisfactory approach to amending legislation. mission which I believe is fixed in the electoral We have therefore rewritten an area of this Bill legislation? What will be the commission’s terms to avoid having to refer back to various Acts and of reference? Given the increase in population in amendments and this is the appropriate approach the State, will the Minister give the commission for any electoral legislation as such legislation any terms of reference in respect of the number must be clear and holistic in its approach. Deputy of Members of the House? Gilmore is correct; it will be necessary and it is The sequence is the publication of the census the Government’s intention to introduce similar figures on 26 April followed by the Minister trig- legislative change for both the European and gering the mechanism to appoint a constituencies local elections following the coming election or commission which then has six months to report re-election. I agree with the Deputy’s view that it is necessary to rewrite the legislation in both and by which time the general election will be those areas. Whomsoever will stand here would over. Is it his advice that this arrangement is take the same view. sufficiently robust to withstand any possible challenge? Mr. O’Dowd: We accept due custom and practice and that the law must apply regarding the Mr. Roche: In answer to Deputy Murphy, my redrawing of constituencies. Will the Minister advice is that if I were to do something other than charge the constituencies review commission with what I am doing, this would be subject to chal- examining the massive changes in local govern- lenge. A matter can always be the subject of chal- ment boundaries which have occurred and are lenge as any individual with the ways and means already obvious in the census, with the intention can challenge any issue in the courts. It is certain of a review of those boundaries? Will the com- that if I were to move in the direction which the mission review the crisis in some local govern- Deputy is suggesting, it would be subject to a suc- ment areas where city boundaries overlap with cessful challenge because the court in its other county boundaries and there is not a con- judgments has made it clear that the final report sensus for future action? of the census must be used. The Deputy asked whether a change in law in Ms C. Murphy: The Constitution does not spec- necessary and this point was taken up by Deputy ify that the figures used should be the final census Gilmore. It is always a matter that can be figures. The legislation which introduced the pre- reviewed whether a principle may be changed. liminary figures has not been tested. A significant However, it is only in relatively recent times that number of constituencies show wide variations Da´la have been running for fixed terms. There is which are either positive or negative. It will be a no provision in law for Da´la running a fixed term; case of constant catch-up because the census is ´ held every five years and a Daíl term may be up it is a coincidence that the last few Dala have run to five years unless this is changed. According to for fixed terms as will this Daíl run for its full the 2002 census figures Kildare North would have term. Changing circumstances always need to be been entitled to an extra seat but this seat is only borne in mind when legislation is being drafted. now available for this election. A constant catch- With regard to the constituencies commission, up is being played in the case of rapidly the terms of reference are established in Part 3 of developing areas. This problem will continue as the Electoral Act 1997 and I do not intend to the population is expanding and Governments depart from it. The membership of the com- last for a full five years. Does the Minister favour mission is also specified in that Act. It will include changing or introducing legislation to allow for a judge of the Supreme Court or, following con- the use of the preliminary census figures? Has his sultation with the President of the High Court, a legal advice given any prospect of or danger of judge of the High Court nominated by the Chief a challenge, given that it is out of line with the Justice who shall be chairperson of the com- Constitution in a number of locations? The Mini- mission. The other members are the Ombuds- ster has refused to publish the legal advice but man, the Secretary General of the Department of I ask him to inform the House whether advice the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- suggested a challenge could be made. The vari- ment, the Clerk of the Daíl and the Clerk of the ation between the number of seats and the popu- Seanad. I do not intend departing from this lation is significant and the value of the vote is membership. not of equal value as it depends whether one lives I have given an undertaking that I will trigger in a rapidly developing area or an area where the the mechanism within 24 or 48 hours, depending population is declining; this is not the essence of on the day of the week the CSO reports. I accept democracy. the Deputy’s point that it is somewhat frustrating to be in a constituency where the numbers have Mr. Gilmore: I wish to pursue the issue further. grown very dramatically and where a new I agree with Deputy Murphy that the coincidence situation may pertain but it would be even more of election time with the publication of the census figures is giving rise to the mismatch. What will dramatic if we changed at this stage. 1221 European Communities Bill 2006: 28 March 2007. Report Stage 1222

Ms C. Murphy: That was not my point. I refer counties Clare and Limerick. On a radio chat to the equality of vote, irrespective of which con- show at the time, a lady from the Clare side of stituency I represent. the boundary stated that if I were to facilitate this change it would be the worst travesty of natural Mr. Roche: This issue has been well tested. The justice since the day the Wehrmacht marched into Deputy will be aware of the number of Supreme Poland. Her contribution demonstrates some of Court judgments on this issue. The Supreme the attitude of locals towards the proposal. Court has spoken with clarity and I do not wish to People in Kilkenny are concerned that if we were do anything that would violate a decision which is to cede part of the county to the city of Waterford constitutional in its nature and which has been it would have a major impact on the county hur- handed down by the Supreme Court. It would be ling team. Even though I was born and reared in criminally unwise for any Minister to do that. Wexford and hurling is the sport I most actively There is a long history in this issue. I subscribe follow, I would be rightly criticised by the people to the general principle that there should be an of Kilkenny if I was to eviscerate their hurling equality of vote although the Constitution does team’s chances going forward. Wexford will be allow a variation which in itself somewhat tres- obliged to find another way to defeat Kilkenny. passes on the general principle. I accept that point made by Deputy O’Dowd Deputy O’Dowd asked whether the com- but I am of the view that, as has been the case in a mission will be examining local authority bound- number of instances, a smidgin of common sense aries. The commission will not be doing so would resolve the problem. The work of the com- because that matter will be considered separately. mission will not have a direct impact on that. The nature of the commission’s examination is to Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. consider local electoral divisions, LEDs, and where these should be drawn. The commission is Amendment No. 2 not moved. not charged with looking at the other matter which lies at the core of the Deputy’s question, Bill received for final consideration. namely, whether it should be responsible for resolving issues relating to boundaries such as Question proposed: “That the Bill do now those that have arisen in, for example, Waterford, pass.” Limerick and elsewhere. There is a separate mechanism to deal with such matters. This could Minister for the Environment, Heritage and be, but has not been, triggered. I am of the view Local Government (Mr. Roche): I thank the that politicians should make decisions of that Members who contributed to the debate, partic- nature. ularly Deputies O’Dowd and Gilmore who put a huge amount of effort into their contributions. I Mr. O’Dowd: What is the position vis-a`-vis agree with Deputy Gilmore that there are quite consent? a number of matters that need adjusting, particularly in the areas of local government and Euro- Mr. Roche: There is no great problem where pean elections. These matters will be dealt with consent exists. In Wexford, for example, the in separate and appropriate legislation. The point municipal boundaries were extended into the was made on Committee Stage that this is a county council area by common better way to approach legislative change, partic- 1 o’clock agreement. There is no such common ularly in the context of electoral law because it agreement between Limerick city makes it readable. This approach should be taken and county councils. In the latter case, and in that in respect of local government and European involving Waterford, I suggest that a much more elections. common sense approach, rather than a hegem- onic attitude, be adopted by both the ambitious Question put and agreed to. council and that which is trying to repel its ambition. Representatives of the councils should European Communities Bill 2006 [Seanad]: come together and negotiate. Report Stage. Many of our cities and towns have historic Acting Chairman (Dr. Cowley): Amendment boundaries that have nothing to do with modern No. 1 in the name of Deputy Costello and considerations. The last county was created in Amendments Nos. 2 and 3 in the name of Deputy 1604 and the decision in this regard had nothing O´ Snodaigh are out of order as they are in con- to do with Irish tradition or culture or the flict with the principle of the Bill. arrangements that preceded the shiring of Ireland into counties. It is astonishing, therefore, that Amendments Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, not moved. there is such vigorous support for proposals in this area. Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 4 in the I attended a meeting of Limerick City Council names of Deputies Costello and O´ Snodaigh at which major ambition was evident among arises out of Committee proceedings. councillors from across the political divide to change the boundaries and extend them into Mr. Costello: I move amendment No. 4: 1223 European Communities Bill 2006: 28 March 2007. Report Stage 1224

[Mr. Costello.] the Minister, who can then determine how the In page 3, to delete lines 16 to 33 and in page legislation from Europe will be implemented. 4, to delete lines 1 and 2. That is not good enough. It sends out entirely the I welcome the Minister of State belatedly to the wrong message. Daíl to take legislation which is before us again No doubt this legislation will be quoted the for a short time. My objection to this legislation length and breadth of this country when we are has been stated on Committee Stage and on putting through the next referendum on Europe. Second Stage. The principle of this legislation is When a referendum, whether on the consti- all wrong. It is giving full power to the Minister to tutional treaty or another treaty, is put to the operate as he or she sees fit in terms of European people, no doubt those eurosceptics who do not directives, resolutions and legislation and all want Ireland in the European Union will point to European proposals may be transposed by the this Bill and state the Government in 2007 in the Minister as he sees fit, in his own image and like- Daíl took power away from the people and ness, so to speak. This is an extraordinary power elected representatives and handed it to the Mini- we are granting to the Minister, both retrospec- ster. That, in itself, raises a serious question of tively in the case of matters that have already European Union accountability. been dealt with and in the future. The Minister My amendment relates in general terms to that is almost like an alchemist of old who can turn issue. I ask the Minister of State to reconsider whatever he wishes into a precious substance and his position and give us something more than the guild it as he sees fit. Not only will he transpose crumb he is allowing to be placed on the table it into legislation, but he can amend it. He can such as that statutory instruments be presented amend the legislation, providing for up to three on the floor of this House rather than laid in the years imprisonment for any citizen of this juris- Library for 21 days and that he give at least a diction or up to \500,000 in fines. Those are positive presentation on any proposals he is put- extraordinary powers the Minister is taking unto ting forward. himself in this legislation. What he is giving us is a crumb. He is prepared Mr. Allen: Although I do not like repeating to put the European legislation on the floor of myself, I stated on Second Stage that this Bill is the House for 21 days, but he is not prepared to dangerous. I will set out my reasons. From the do so in the normal fashion in which it would be start my party has been pro-European. We have debated, teased out and legislated for, which is seen our country and our people gain consider- our business as legislators. In that sense it is con- able benefits from our membership of the Euro- trary to everything we stand for. I am wholly pean Union. A large number of problems arising opposed to granting these extensive powers. This from our membership hit some of our traditional extends not merely to summary jurisdiction, but industries hard in the early days, and my city suf- to indictable offences which involve the Minister fered more than any other in the demise of tradit- taking much greater powers unto himself. ional industries because of open competition. On As well as opposing the principle of this legis- balance, Ireland has gained substantially through lation, I am also opposed to the message it sends its membership of the European Union and I out. I am sure the Minister of State was present hope people recognise that. last Sunday for the Berlin declaration, stating the This Bill gives hostages to fortune to the benefits the European Union had granted over opponents of the European Union. As Deputy the past 50 years and the wonderful benefits Costello stated, and we stated both on Second which would be granted in the future, but there Stage and on Committee Stage, this Bill will be were quite a few elephants in that room. There used as a weapon against the supporters of the was no mention of the constitutional treaty or of European Union in future referenda and in enlargement, in other words, the issues that con- future debates. cern citizens and that caused the citizens of the It will be difficult to get the support of the Netherlands and France to vote against the con- majority of the Irish people for the European stitutional treaty because they were fearful and constitutional treaty and there is a large hurdle to suspicious of the lack of accountability in the be surmounted in getting this constitution European Union. through. There are a number of reasons for this. If we are embarking on another 50 years in the There is a fear among the people and we must European Union we must ensure we do so with listen to them. We should stop lecturing people the right principles, and one of the basic prin- on the benefits the European Union has given ciples is that of transparency and accountability. them. We should listen to people’s concerns and This legislation avoids all of that. That is a bad fears and enter into two-way dialogue with them. start for us. Such dialogue has been attempted by the We set up the National Forum on Europe so National Forum for Europe, but we are not being citizens could have a sense of involvement and effective enough in getting out to the communi- engagement and we set up the scrutiny legislation ties and, first, listening to people and then dis- — both emanated from the Labour Party — so cussing their concerns with them. the Oireachtas would have a scrutiny process, but Their concerns include the drift of industry now we are in a process of legislation which takes from Western to Eastern Europe and the loss of away a raft of such measures and passes them to jobs to the newer member states, where compe- 1225 European Communities Bill 2006: 28 March 2007. Report Stage 1226 tition is keener and costs and overheads are be addressed by giving the Minister of the day lower. People are concerned about the ongoing the right to sweep aside the oversight function of enlargement of the Union and believe, to use a the Daíl and its Members and introduce by statu- basketball analogy, we should take time out to tory instrument EU directives that will override consider the impact of the most recent round of domestic legislation. It is wrong and dangerous enlargement involving Bulgaria and Romania, because it undermines our sovereignty. We will and the previous ones, and the long-term effects be hostages to fortune to the opponents of the of that enlargement on the Irish economy and the EU who will be very vociferous in future refer- Irish people. While I support it, we must bring enda and I worry about this. I have tabled a the people with us. It is pointless lecturing people number of amendments, which I will not debate about what they have gained, as we must also at length, and I ask the Minister of State to recon- meet their concerns. The Minister for Foreign sider his position on this and take on board a Affairs will take on unprecedented powers under number of the reasonable amendments tabled by this legislation. He is attempting to override the Opposition. It is reasonable to propose that a domestic legislation through a statutory instru- statutory instrument be laid before the House for ment and bypass the House. The concession 21 days for its consideration. In the interest of all made by the Minister of State on Committee Members and the people we represent, that Stage, while welcome, does not go far enough. A should be entertained. provision should be inserted to ensure a positive assent by the House to the statutory instruments Mr. Crowe: The powers the Minister is seeking introduced by the Minister of the day. The Daíl in the legislation represent a quantum leap. Many should have 21 days to oppose a proposal by the people’s nightmare that Europe would dictate to Minister, if it so wishes. Ireland what should be done will become a I am chairman of the Joint Committee on reality. While many positive initiatives have ema- European Affairs Sub-Committee on European nated from Europe, we should have a policy of Scrutiny. Last year most of our work was devoted critical engagement with the Union. We should to regulations, decisions and directives, which consider whether to support or oppose each new comprised 69% of the total documentation. initiative on the basis of merit and criteria relat- Approximately 56 Common Foreign and Security ing to its effectiveness, human rights compliance Policy proposals were considered, including the and whether it is good or bad for the people. The application of restricted measures against coun- legislation will take powers away from the Daíl tries such as Burma, Zimbabwe, Sudan and and its committees and put them in the hands of Liberia and against suspected terrorists. On issues a Minister. One person who was asked for a legal of such importance, we must not simply hand opinion on this described it as an attempted coup over absolute authority, retrospective or other- by the executive arm of the State against the wise, to the Minister of the day. I am not trying legislative arm, which is the Oireachtas. The diffi- to increase the sub-committee’s workload or culty about these powers, some of which are make my job more important, given that the elec- retrospective, is that we do not know what we are tion is imminent but the next Government must agreeing to or what legislation is covered. take a realistic approach to EU directives. The My colleague, Deputy O´ Snodaigh, tabled a sub-committee should become a full committee number of parliamentary questions to various of both Houses and adequate resources and Departments about this legislation and most powers must be provided to deal effectively with Departments are in the dark. We are being asked the avalanche of European documentation. to agree to the Minister deciding what regulations Unfortunately, we are dealing with it on a wing should be implemented without referring to any- and a prayer currently. We are dependent on a body. That is absolute madness and it is a dicta- small but very professional staff and I marvel not torial approach to this process. To hand power only at the quality of their work but also at the exclusively to a Minister and his or her officials is volume of documentation they scrutinise. They anti-democratic and that view has been expressed must decide on the implications for the State of by many Opposition Members throughout this all these regulations, directives and so on. debate. It is crazy that, as long as the Minister The inadequate resourcing of this sub-commit- claims it is necessary, European laws could be tee coupled with the Minister of State’s proposal implemented without seeking the permission or in the legislation is dangerous. Last week during acknowledgement of Deputies and Senators or Question Time I referred to the Government’s even having to notify them. I do not know how a failure to transpose many EU directives into Parliament could argue this is positive and domestic legislation. The Departments of the democratic. Environment, Heritage and Local Government A former President of Germany, Roman and Transport are the greatest culprits in this Herzog recently asked whether Germany could regard. Between 50 and 60 EU legislative pro- be called a parliamentary democracy because the posals have not been transposed into domestic EU drafts 80% of its laws. That is our current law because the system is not capable of dealing position without the enactment of this legislation. with the volume of work coming through. In 2006 the Sub-Committee on European Scru- We are faced with a dangerous vacuum and the tiny processed 329 legislative proposals, which sooner it is eliminated, the better but that will not amounted to 90% of legislation dealt with by the 1227 European Communities Bill 2006: 28 March 2007. Report Stage 1228

[Mr. Crowe.] statutory instruments. We are not asking the Oireachtas. We are relying on the goodwill of the House to allow us to do anything that was not Minister and his officials to inform us whether it done in the past. is good or bad. What is being proposed here is wrong. The nightmare will become a reality and Mr. Costello: It was done wrongly in the past. many of us have spoken about the centralised That was the decision of the Supreme Court. Europe which seems to be developing. We have argued against the direction Europe has taken in Mr. Treacy: Following the judgments, a signifi- recent years and the undermining of countries’ cant degree of analysis was carried out by the sovereignty. We have asked whether we are mov- Office of the Attorney General and by all ing towards a European super state. The legis- Departments involved in the transposition of lation certainly appears to be moving us in that European Community legislation. This issue direction and fewer powers are being given to affects every Department, in accordance with the sovereign parliaments. Our arguments were rub- importance of Europe to our economy and bished by many people, who said we were anti- society and the range of our European obli- European, but this type of legislation is the night- gations. The Attorney General advised at the end mare becoming reality. of this consultative process that new legislation My party will oppose the Bill at all stages. We was needed to fill the gap created by the two are being asked to agree to smoke and mirrors Supreme Court decisions. because we do not know what is coming down the track or what we will agree to retrospectively. Mr. Allen: We all agree with that. I do not see how anyone in his or her right mind could agree to these proposals if he or she gen- Mr. Treacy: The Supreme Court judgments uinely believes in democracy or giving people the mean that some of the body of legislation opportunity to scrutinise legislation. This Bill will developed since 1973 could be susceptible to legal undermine whatever powers of scrutiny are cur- challenge. Essentially, secondary legislation made rently possessed by these Houses and it rep- in good faith over three decades by dozens of resents the wrong way forward. We are giving too Ministers from successive Governments under much power to Ministers and it is anti-demo- the powers given to them by Acts of the cratic, if not dictatorial. I support the amendment Oireachtas may be in doubt. The Attorney but oppose the Bill. General’s advice to the Government was that the issue needed to be addressed and that is the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign reason for the Bill before us. Deputy Costello and Affairs (Mr. Treacy): Is cu´ is a´thais dom a bheith others referred to this issue on Committee Stage. ar ais arı´s le freastal ar an dı´ospo´ ireacht faoi na hathruithe ata´ molta ag an Fhreasu´ ra maidir le Our founding fathers and predecessors in Bille na gComhphobal Eorpach 2006. I thank government believed that secondary legislation Deputies for their contributions and the amend- was sufficient for the practical implementation of ments they brought forward on Report Stage, law and regulation. which allow for a full and frank debate on the Bill. Mr. Allen: Used correctly.

Mr. Allen: We cannot have a full debate Mr. Treacy: I will give Deputies a simple because the Bill is being guillotined. example. If primary legislation provides for a maximum limit of ten parts of sodium per million Mr. Treacy: We are here to do a job, we will in fertiliser and an EU directive subsequently do it together and, hopefully, we shall beat the reduces the limit to five parts per million, a statu- guillotine. tory instrument could be used to amend the relevant legislation. Mr. Costello: We do not have much time to do so. Mr. Costello: That is not an indictable offence.

Mr. Treacy: Our reasons for being here are Mr. Treacy: Is somebody saying that is not a clear from the Title to the Bill. This Bill arises proper way to proceed? because of the serious implications of landmark Supreme Court judgments in the Browne and Mr. Allen: The Government got unstuck in that Kennedy cases. The court found that a statutory regard with the nitrates directive. instrument to give effect to European Com- munity law can only be validly made where the Mr. Treacy: We were not unstuck on that. Oireachtas has specifically provided for it in the relevant primary legislation. We are not rein- Mr. Costello: That is not an indictable offence. venting the wheel. For the past 85 years, the Oireachtas has passed primary and secondary Mr. Treacy: I have not interrupted anybody legislation, and has given power to successive and would love to be given the chance to respond Ministers to bring secondary legislation through to the points made by Deputies. 1229 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1230

Mr. Allen: We just want to educate the Mini- the forum. The secretary general of the commit- ster of State. This is Report Stage so we should tee stated emphatically that the European Union be allowed a bit of interaction. believes that the National Forum on Europe is the best vehicle for communicating the European Mr. Treacy: I thought contributions on Report message to the citizens of Ireland. He recom- Stage were the preserve of the respective mended that the forum be replicated in every speakers. member state. This week, the forum will move to Deputy Allen’s great city, where it will address Mr. Allen: I stand corrected. the lifelong learning festival. It is visiting the people in rural and urban areas. Mr. Treacy: In his opening remarks, Deputy Reference was made to resources for the scru- Costello spoke about the Berlin declaration and tiny role of the Oireachtas. I have made it clear elephants in the room. The Berlin declaration is on Committee Stage that we are open to a review basically a statement of the evolution of the of the arrangements in place for Oireachtas scru- European Union, its success and the oppor- tiny. I fully support that. tunities it has created. It outlined how we can reflect on the past and have the confidence to Debate adjourned. enhance the European Union in the interest of its citizens. There is no elephant in the room. Estimates for Public Services 2007: Messages from Select Committees. Mr. Costello: What about the constitutional treaty? Acting Chairman: The Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights Mr. Treacy: The European Union is clear on has completed its consideration of the following what it has achieved and confident about its Estimates for public services for the service of the future. The European constitution is a way to year ending 31 December 2007: Votes 19, 20, 21, refine institutional requirements so that we will 22 and 23. be able to deliver an effective system to our The Select Committee on Health and Children people in an efficient manner so as to ensure has completed its consideration of the following equality of opportunity for all. Revised Estimates for public services for the service of the year ending 31 December 2007: Mr. Costello: When will we vote on the treaty? Votes 39, 40 and 41.

Mr. Treacy: As soon as a clear decision is taken Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at on how we can proceed. 2.30 p.m.

Mr. Costello: Two years down the road. Ceisteanna — Questions (Resumed).

Mr. Treacy: I am confident the treaty will be in Priority Questions. position by the next European elections. That is the goal of the European Union and Ireland. ———— Members of all parties will work together on the constitution to the benefit of the EU and our Arts Plan. country. We have to be mindful of the role the European Union has played in modernising our 61. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Arts, nation and our laws and in ensuring we have an Sport and Tourism his views on the finding of the effective mechanism to introduce fair and equit- recent NESF report, The Arts, Cultural Inclusion able legislation. and Social Cohesion, which showed there are I pay tribute to Deputy Allen on the outstand- major differences in levels of participation in the ing work he has done as Chairman of the Sub- arts, reflecting inequalities in society in terms of Committee on European Scrutiny. I salute him, education, class, income and age; the action his his colleagues and the officials of the sub-commit- Department or the agencies under his direct tee. Much work has been done in a quiet but responsibility will take to implement the findings efficient manner. My Department is proud to of the report; and if he will make a statement on have fulfilled its responsibilities under the Euro- the matter. [12114/07] pean Union (Scrutiny) Act 2002. The Act also obliges us to produce an annual report on devel- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. opments in the European Union. That is access- O’Donoghue): I have noted the recom- ible and transparent to everybody and is an mendations made in the National Economic and important tool for Members, citizens and Depart- Social Forum, NESF, report No. 35, The Arts, ments in terms of knowing the ramifications of Cultural Inclusion and Social Cohesion, and have any proposals coming from Europe. asked my officials to take steps in the first Deputy Allen spoke about the National Forum instance to put in place the institutional arrange- on Europe. Yesterday, I had the opportunity to ments to implement those recommendations. The attend the Committee of the Regions in Ireland, proposed strategy committee with an indepen- with the secretaries general of the committee and dent chairperson will have the role of delivering 1231 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1232

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] national cultural institution, further enhancement on this implementation. On carrying out appro- of the Chester Beatty Library, shared off-site priate consultations, I will announce the compo- storage facilities for the national cultural insti- sition of that committee. tutions and the provision of a new headquarters The finalisation of the national development for the National Archives as a public private part- plan earlier this year heralded the single largest nership project. capital allocation to the arts and culture sector in The Government’s policy on universal access the history of the State. A total of \904 million in to arts and cultural facilities will be furthered funding in the culture sub-programme has been through the exploitation of technological devel- allocated to projects and institutions under the opments that will enable it to begin a major aegis of my Department. The objectives set out digitisation programme for the collections in our in the sub-programme are entirely consistent with national collecting institutions. Digitisation will delivering on many of the recommendations of provide access to the national collections nation- the NESF report. wide and from abroad. It is an essential part of Until recently, other priority demands on broadening access to elements of the national col- resources in a growing economy, and the result- lections and will form the nucleus of public edu- ant pressure on the State’s finances, meant that cation in arts. For example, it will enable the funding allocated to arts and culture, while on a State to put on-line the collection of the National steady upward curve, did not provide the Library in every school in the country by Government with the wherewithal to undertake exploiting the Government’s recent investment to major investment in the sector. It was not until bring high-speed broadband to all 4,200 schools well into the 1990s that it was possible to commit nationwide. The digitisation programme will also substantial investment to the national cultural take account of the North-South dimension. My institutions and the millennium wing at the Department will lead this initiative and will act in National Gallery was the first landmark project to partnership with the cultural institutions and the be realised. The new national development plan private technology sector to realise this ambition. provides a platform for greatly increased invest- The culture sub-programme will also take ment in such institutions, which will ensure the account of the North-South dimension. There is State will have both national cultural institutions close collaboration between the Arts Council of of international repute and a network of world Northern Ireland and the Arts Council and I look class regional facilities. forward to expanding the opportunities for even The NDP includes funding for the develop- closer collaboration that should result from ment of a new national theatre and a new resumed political development. The co-operation National Concert Hall on a public private part- that is already in place for North-South tourism nership basis. Considerable progress has been provides a robust model for what can be made on these projects which, when completed, achieved. will provide Ireland with state-of-the-art facilities for the benefit of its people and for its enhance- Funding is included for an enhanced arts and ment as a tourist destination. cultural capital enhancement support scheme, ACCESS, programme for grant aid towards the It also includes funding for major capital developments at the other national cultural insti- development of arts and culture infrastructure tutions. The following key projects will be deliv- nationwide. A new round of ACCESS will run ered over the lifetime of the plan: the major from 2007 to 2009 and applications for funding extension of the National Library, delivery of a under this round have been evaluated by an inde- number of projects at the National Gallery in line pendent selection committee and I will make an with the gallery’s development control plan and announcement on grant awards shortly. The a major programme of works at the National primary focus of the scheme will be the refur- Museum at Collins Barracks involving the bishment and enhancement of existing arts and development of the new centre block exhibition culture facilities. The ACCESS programme is a galleries. A building will also be provided to key element of the Government’s regional arts house the Asgard at Collins Barracks, where it strategy. will be conserved and proposals to locate a sports Funding has also been allocated for the com- museum at Collins Barracks are under consider- pletion of major development projects at the ation. Such projects represent an ambitious Gate, the Gaiety, Smock Alley and Wexford agenda for the next phase in the development of theatres and for structural work on the Hunt the major national resource that Collins Bar- Museum, Limerick. I am glad to report that the racks represents. Gaiety and Wexford projects are proceeding apace and are on schedule. Additional information not given on the floor of I have served as Minister for Arts, Sport and the House. Tourism since June 2002. This Government’s Funding is also included for the enhancement record in arts, sport and tourism is one of which of facilities and the provision of additional exhi- it can be justifiably proud and I was delighted to bition space at the Irish Museum of Modern Art, garner such significant and unprecedented fund- IMMA, investment in upgrading the Crawford ing for all three areas in successive Estimates Gallery in Cork, which has been designated as a campaigns and in the NDP. In this fast-paced and 1233 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1234 vibrant economy, it is important to remember the arts is a relatively modern phenomenon and that economic indicators alone cannot measure a that this may be the first Irish generation with strong and healthy society. The well-being of Irish the monetary capacity to engage in meaningful society is also dependent on the vitality of its sponsorship of the arts. I strongly believe the arts communities. I believe strongly that the arts have have a critical role to play in enlivening, invigor- a critical role to play in enlivening, invigorating ating and distinguishing our society, locally, and distinguishing our society, locally, nationally nationally and internationally, and that Ireland’s and internationally, and that Ireland’s future future economic social and cultural success economic, social and cultural success requires requires that appropriate priority be given to the that appropriate priority be given to the nation’s nation’s creative and artistic constituents. creative and artistic constituents. In that respect, I believe the Government has made considerable progress due to increased Mr. Deenihan: I am glad the Minister has given funding for the arts and that programmes such a commitment in the House that he will establish as ACCESS I have been extremely successful. I a steering committee or a strategy committee to recently announced the establishment of implement the recommendations of this report. ACCESS II and applications are being con- I was delighted to serve on the committee that sidered at present. This will permit the continued produced it and am grateful that a number of creation of facilities for the arts nationwide in recommendations I made have been included. order that people may give expression to their The reason I welcomed the commitment made creative talents. today by the Minister is that although the Arts Digitisation is extremely important and I am Council and the Combat Poverty Agency pro- pleased the national development plan provides duced a similar report with many of the same for it as I campaigned for it long and hard. For recommendations in the 1990s, they were not example, we will be able to make available the implemented. Had they been implemented then, treasures in the National Library to every school we would not be facing the same problems and pupil in Ireland, thus enabling them to regarding cultural inclusion and social cohesion engage with the treasures held in the National that affect our society today. Does the Minister Library. Progressive digitisation will enable us to accept that many people are deprived from spread the arts across the nation in order that enjoying the arts to the extent they should people will be able to participate irrespective of because of their class, educational or socio-econ- their socio-economic background, which is omic backgrounds or ethnic origins? important. Although the Minister has little time remaining Continued investment by local authorities in to him, will he give a commitment that the tandem with the Arts Council in local areas is of Government will pursue a form of spatial strategy immense importance. While I do not for a regarding the provision of facilities nationwide in moment pretend that all has been resolved in order that communities will have access to arts respect of participation, enormous ground has centres and to quality performances? One barrier been made in a relatively short time and I do not that emerged strongly in this report concerned doubt that the seeds sown will bear further fruit the issue of geographical location. Those who live in years to come. in remote locations have no opportunity to see professional performances because Dublin and An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We will move to the other major centres are simply too distant Question No. 62. from them. There must be a commitment to some spatial distribution of arts centres nationwide in Mr. Deenihan: May I ask a short question? order that touring parties can visit such locations to provide quality performances, as can local An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy may groups. Moreover, the Arts Council requires a ask a brief question. considerable amount of increased funding to enable it to provide funding for more professional Mr. Deenihan: Because the report is so touring groups to tour, thus ensuring that people important I wish to ask the Minister whether can have access to quality performances. The particular emphasis will be placed on access for Minister should respond to these questions. young people to the arts when the Department establishes the strategy committee, which I hope Mr. O’Donoghue: I extend my thanks to the will be within the next couple of weeks. The representatives of all strands of the NESF, that report identifies barriers against young people is, the Oireachtas Members, namely, Deputies fully participating in the arts and exploiting or Deenihan and McManus and Senator Mooney, capitalising on their latent talent. The new Irish, together with the social partners, Departments particularly the African-Irish, have particular and agencies, for their tremendous work in com- expertise in music and dance. Will the Minister piling this report. It goes without saying that ensure particular attention is paid to them and people have not had equality of access to the arts that particular recommendations are made and in Ireland since the foundation of the State. I actions taken to include these groups in any would go so far as to suggest that sponsorship of future strategy? 1235 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1236

Mr. O’Donoghue: That will be done. The With regard to the Deputy’s reference to pos- implementation group will be established at the sible further challenges, legal or otherwise, earliest possible date after consultations have Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Com- taken place. I am conscious of the need to involve pany engaged in a sustained consultative process young people, which is why we established the with local residents and other bodies in the course arts and education committee last year. This com- of which it worked hard to fully understand and mittee had the task of formulating a policy to take on board real concerns to the greatest extent enable us to ensure the education sector became possible. I am confident this positive framework more involved as regards the involvement of chil- of consultation and constructive engagement will dren in the arts. The report to be furnished to me continue as the project moves into the construc- in the not too distant future will give expression tion and completion phases. to this. In concluding my response to these questions I would like to reflect for one moment on the cul- Lansdowne Road Stadium. tural significance of what is about to commence at Lansdowne Road. The stadium has been part 62. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Arts, Sport of Dublin history for 135 years, beginning in 1872 and Tourism his views on the decision of An as a multi-sports venue for athletics, cricket, cro- Bord Pleana´la to grant planning permission for quet, football, archery and lawn tennis and a little the new Lansdowne Road stadium; the timetable later hosting its first international rugby fixture in for the construction of the new stadium; his views 1878. Many great sporting moments are associ- on whether it will be completed by the 2009 tar- ated with the stadium and successive generations get date; if he anticipates further challenges, legal of Dubliners and others have their own particular or otherwise, to be made in objection to the con- memories of great victories and dramatic defeats, struction; and if he will make a statement on the whether in international rugby, soccer or the matter. [11960/07] many other sports events held there throughout the decades. It is a matter of great satisfaction Mr. O’Donoghue: As the House is aware, in that this element of Dublin has survived from the January 2004 the Government agreed to provide heyday of Charles Stewart Parnell and will host funding of \191 million towards the redevelop- fixtures that will enthrall Irish sports fans long ment of Lansdowne Road stadium as a 50,000 into the 21st century. capacity all-seater state-of-the-art facility. The recent decision by An Bord Pleana´la to grant per- Mr. Deenihan: It is amazing that the Taoiseach mission for the project cleared the way for the wanted to move it from there. redevelopment of Lansdowne Road to commence. Mr. Wall: I thank the Minister for his docu- This is an enormously important decision for mentative reply. This side of the House agrees sport in Ireland. The new Lansdowne Road with and fully supports the development of stadium will meet the needs of the IRFU and the Lansdowne Road. I have a number of questions FAI for hosting rugby and soccer matches, while and would appreciate it if the Minister answered also providing a platform to showcase the talent them. In recent days we saw the findings of a of our international teams to the world. I con- number of surveys which stated alcohol was gratulate the IRFU, the FAI and the Lansdowne associated with sport to too high a degree. The Road Stadium Development Company for their new Lansdowne Road stadium will have a total vision, painstaking preparatory work and com- of 2,410 sq. m of bar and licensed restaurant mitment to ensuring the proposed facility reached facilities. Croke Park also has such facilities. Is the present milestone. I am informed by the the Minister concerned that once again we must Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Com- associate alcohol with the development of our pany that it envisages construction getting under national stadia? Must they go hand in hand or way this May, all going well, and with an esti- can we get the maximum benefit from them with- mated construction period of 29 months the out the influence of alcohol? Is alcohol a major facility should be ready in late 2009 or early 2010. player in attracting attendances on the day? Is it Last week’s decision also means we can begin fair to state we should ensure the strict criteria to engage seriously with UEFA on its announce- which I am sure are in place are adhered to with ment last year that it was prepared to host either regard to opening hours for the sale of alcohol in a Champions League or UEFA Cup final in the such stadia? stadium when completed. The development of Statements were made with regard to the Dod- Lansdowne Road is hugely significant in econ- der and the fact that Dublin City Council must omic terms and the new stadium will undoubtedly determine the sale of a strip of land adjacent to be a valuable asset in attracting an increased river to the development company to allow it number of supporters and visitors to Dublin when ensure development of the stadium. Will the major games are played. Reports commissioned Minister comment on this? by the IRFU estimated that a rugby international Does the Minister still stand over the statement against England could generate in the region of that the maximum funding to be provided by the \52 million for the economy. Department is \190 million? Why will that money 1237 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1238 be paid upfront rather than in stages? Was it a Arts Funding. request from the IRFU and the FAI or did the 63. Mr. Connolly asked the Minister for Arts, Government decide to make the payment upfront Sport and Tourism his proposals to progress a and allow the two associations to develop the pro- new theatre in Monaghan town, which would be ject? What was the idea behind it? an invaluable asset to tourism in the county; the timeframe he envisages for the project; the fund- Mr. O’Donoghue: The provision of bar facili- ing that he will make available; and if he will ties at the new Lansdowne Road stadium is part make a statement on the matter. [11823/07] of the plan. It should be remembered that often modern stadia are not used solely for the pur- Mr. O’Donoghue: An application for funding poses of sport. Croke Park is often used for major was received from this project under the Arts and conferences. In the same way, I anticipate meet- Culture Capital Enhancement Support Scheme ings and smaller conferences will take place at II, better known as ACCESS II. This is the suc- Lansdowne Road. Therefore, I anticipate a need cessor to the highly successful ACCESS I scheme, for restaurant and bar facilities and it is only introduced in August 2001, which allocated fund- natural that these facilities would form part of the ing of almost \43 million to 40 projects plans. It is not the intention of the Lansdowne nationwide. Road Stadium Development Company nor mine ACCESS has been widely acknowledged as a to promote the sale of drink, far from it. significant intervention in the provision of high Regarding the Dodder river walkway, an inter- quality arts and culture infrastructure around the national sized rugby pitch will be provided at the country. Under the new scheme, 70% of the rear of the East Stand to be used by Wanderers funds will be directed towards the enhancement and Lansdowne rugby clubs. This development and refurbishment of existing facilities, with 30% requires a small strip of land along the Dodder available for new facilities. river walkway. Dublin City Council was An independent selection committee has just approached with this request and is fully aware completed the assessment of the applications and of what is involved. Discussions are continuing. has, in recent days, completed its report for my In return, land along the Dodder river just out- consideration. I am currently examining this side the stadium will be upgraded and improved report and hope to make an announcement in order that there will continue to be a Dodder regarding the successful applicants shortly. walkway from Lansdowne Road to Bath Avenue. The existing amenity will not be removed. Mr. Connolly: I note that ACCESS I was suc- Engagement with other statutory agencies will cessful but I understand the ACCESS II programme of \23 million included 25%, or approxi- be necessary as we progress with construction. \ There will be a necessity to have talks and reach mately 6 million, specifically for new theatres. I agreement with Iarnro´ dE´ ireann. understand there was to be an announcement before the end of March, so when will the Mini- The entire cost is \365 million, of which the ster make the announcement? The Minister has Exchequer will provide \191 million. Expendi- stated he is considering the report but will his ture to date is approximately \23 million which announcement come before the end of March, as was spent on matters such as design. The Depart- was originally promised? ment’s Vote this year made provision for expen- Is the Minister aware of the success of the local diture of \56 million in anticipation of An Bord Garage Theatre in Monaghan over the past 14 ´ Pleanala granting planning permission. I am glad years? Excellent work has been done by the CEO to state it did so. In the circumstances, it is clear of the VEC, Mr. Larry McCluskey, and his staff that Exchequer funding to be provided in the at the theatre there. There were many sceptics at period from now to the end of construction will the beginning but it has worked out and the be staggered. It is true that the FAI and IRFU facility is very successful. will come in at a later stage with their contri- Does the Minister consider the facilities in the butions. The reason is that to a large extent, their Garage Theatre to be totally inadequate for pro- funds will be raised by way of selling corporate fessional artists and local audiences? That is no box advance tickets. They are confident they will fault of the theatre staff and administrators, who each raise the required share of funding in are dedicated and hard working. Is the Minister accordance with the agreement. also aware that despite the shortcomings, the It is the Government’s intention to provide theatre has enjoyed notable success in fostering \191 million, which has been the aim since the individual artistic talent, not just at local level but beginning. It remains the position that the also at the national level? Government is committed to the provision of Does the Minister agree the existing arts infra- \191 million and no more. As of now, we hope structure in Monaghan, which has centred on the to see construction commence in May this year, Garage Theatre, is in serious need of an upgrade with construction of the new stadium completed by means of a new theatre? The Garage Theatre by the end of 2009. This would mean we have met has seen much use in the past 12 months, produc- every single deadline since the commencement of ing 106 shows, or over two shows per week. That the project. is a notable achievement in a town like 1239 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1240

[Mr. Connolly.] Europe; and if he will make a statement on the Monaghan. Does the Minister agree the theatre matter. [12115/07] project is deserving of funding, particularly with regard to the excellent record it has had over the Mr. O’Donoghue: I welcome the advent of the previous 14 years? open skies agreement, which has long been an Does the Minister agree the provision of a new objective of Irish tourism policy. Following on the theatre in Monaghan would be a major asset to open skies deal, Aer Lingus has announced new the town and the county in general? It would services to San Francisco, Orlando and Wash- attract quite a number of people in the develop- ington Dulles. These additional routes have the ment of the arts and culture-based tourism. We potential to benefit Irish tourism and business attract a number of people from the Fermanagh, links across the country. The new open skies Tyrone and Armagh area, and I am sure the regime will, of course, see the phasing out of the Minister would agree there is a good buzz about Shannon stopover policy. This is a challenge for cross-Border projects etc. This new theatre would Shannon but it is also an opportunity. If Shannon be ideally located in Monaghan. is to successfully rise to that challenge, a number of issues will need to be addressed. Mr. O’Donoghue: I had the pleasure of visiting The cost base of the airport is too high and if the Garage Theatre and I am aware of the diffi- it is not tackled, Shannon will not be able to meet culties under which the people running it and per- the challenge or exploit the opportunities forming there operate. Under the new ACCESS presented by open skies. In that context, it is scheme, 70% of funds will be directed to the encouraging to note recent positive developments enhancement or refurbishment of existing facili- on a severance and flexibility package for staff. ties, with 30% available for new facilities. We The airport will need to look beyond the north received 155 applications from right across the Atlantic and look at the opportunities presented country up to the closing date. An independent by routes to Britain and mainland Europe, build- selection committee has been assessing the appli- ing on recent positive experience in that regard. cations and I do not anticipate an announcement It is critical that visitors to the Shannon catch- prior to the end of this month. ment area are provided with accessible routes and An application was received from the Garage transport options. From a tourism perspective, it Theatre in Monaghan to build a new theatre in is essential that local interests work to enhance the town. The project has an estimated cost some- the range and quality of tourism product in the \ where in the order of 10 million, with the project region, having regard to Fa´ilte Ireland’s new \ promoters seeking funding in the order of 6 mil- product development strategies. lion. There is a difficulty with that in the context Tourism marketing will have optimum impact of the amount of funding available under the when the above elements are in place. A key aim scheme for new build and the amount of funding of any tourism marketing campaign would be an available generally. integrated regional response with a particular As I have stated, the matter is under consider- focus on maintaining good flows of off-peak busi- ation and an announcement in respect of theatres, ness. There have been demands for a special tour- as well as art and exhibition centres across the ism marketing fund for Shannon but these must country, can be expected in due course. be tempered by realism. The House should note that the total tourism marketing fund for 2007 is Mr. Connolly: The Minister has stated the new \45 million and that Tourism Ireland would have project in Monaghan is costed at \10 million and \ \ spent less than 8 million in direct marketing in 6 million is being allocated for new theatres. the USA during 2006 for the whole island. Does the Minister not consider the amount to My Department has considered the impact of be inadequate? open skies and has been in touch with the tourism agencies which are committed to working closely Mr. O’Donoghue: Irrespective of how much with Shannon development and the industry in money a Minister may have, he or she may regard delivering a response, and the Deputy can take it it as inadequate. The reality is I have a certain that there will be a response. fund which I have negotiated to the best of my Any tourism marketing response must, in my ability and it must be administered to the best of view, be delivered by Tourism Ireland, focus on my ability with regard to promoting arts in the the wider Shannon catchment area, have regard country, taking into account geographical demands. to the new super regions marketing framework introduced in 2006 and, in so far as North Amer- ica is concerned, conform to Tourism Ireland’s Tourism Promotion. new North American strategy. 64. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Arts, I understand that my colleague the Minister for Sport and Tourism if he will request Tourism Transport, Deputy Cullen, will be bringing his Ireland to launch a major marketing plan for the draft economic and tourism development plan for Shannon and western region following the bilat- Shannon to Cabinet very soon. That will provide eral open skies agreement between the USA and an opportunity for Cabinet to discuss the nature 1241 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1242 of any response and the need for additional This is a small island on Europe’s periphery resources, if any. and visitors arriving in such numbers will benefit every part of it. Last year, there was a substantial Mr. Deenihan: I am sure the Minister agrees increase on the previous year in the number of that Shannon Airport is critical to the future of visitors to the western seaboard. I forecast both the Shannon region and the western sea- another substantial increase this year. It is not board. The Minister is aware that 70% of all true to say last year was a poor tourism season. transatlantic traffic drops off in Shannon. It is estimated by the Shannon marketing group that Mr. Deenihan: I did not say that. I asked about Shannon will lose at least 100,000 transatlantic the Minister’s plan for Shannon Airport. tourists per year and I do not have to remind the Minister that at least 68% of all tourists disem- Mr. O’Donoghue: Regarding the open skies barking from Shannon end up in County Kerry. arrangement, it is anticipated by the chief execu- The issue has major implications for that county tives of Tourism Ireland and Fa´ilte Ireland, the as well. officials in my Department and the Department Some 50% of US companies and investment is of Transport and the Government in general that located in the Shannon region and the Shannon open skies will lead to a revolution in Irish tour- free zone has one of the biggest industrial parks ism. The number of visitors from the United in the country. One of the reasons States of America will increase considerably in the coming years. 3 o’clock US companies located in and around When we speak of open skies and the Shannon Shannon was the airport. There is a stopover, let it be remembered that there was distinct possibility that we could lose this type of quid pro quo, namely, our national airline could investment, which would be another major blow not fly from more than four gateway cities in the to the region. We could lose tourists and jobs. USA. It was restricted in terms of its growth and, The Minister is aware of the case of Prestwick therefore, the number of people it could bring Airport in Scotland. It was a refuelling stop, but here from the USA. That quid pro quo is gone, due to improvements in airline technology, that indicative of which is Aer Lingus’s announcement stop became unnecessary. The airport is under on the night of the agreement being made that it significant pressure to survive and I hope the will fly from three more gateway cities. same does not occur at Shannon Airport. Between 1999 and 2003, tourism lost approxi- Mr. Deenihan: None of those flights will go to mately 3 million bed-nights along the western Shannon Airport. seaboard. As the Minister knows, there have been a number of closures. Unless more visitors Mr. O’Donoghue: Tourism Ireland has iden- go the area, there will be further closures. The tified 15 major cities in the USA where we can Minister mentioned a few plans. The three expect substantial growth under open skies. This reports in the past three years on Shannon Air- will mean that we can anticipate a large increase port with which I am familiar suggested that if in the number of American visitors. the bilateral agreement came about, a plan should The Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, has be put in place immediately so that Tourism an implementation document regarding the Ireland or another body could enter the source future of Shannon Airport. I have examined the market to ensure business is found for the airport. document and stated that the demand for \44 On the same day Aer Lingus announced its com- million is unrealistic. However, my Department mitment to retain its 400,000 seats, it announced is considering our marketing of the region. It three new American destinations — Orlando, must be remembered that the number of visitors Detroit and Washington — from Dublin. passing through Shannon Airport last year This is an important issue. The Minister does increased by 23% on the previous year. Given the not agree with the Irish Hotels Federation that a pessimism expressed in some quarters, this was a major marketing plan must be put in place, but I tremendous performance. Inasmuch as the will warn him that this matter will have significant number of American visitors will increase under implications for our county, the western seaboard open skies, Shannon Airport will also grow. If it and the Shannon region. Will he be more specific grasps the opportunities outlined in my original concerning what strategy is in place to ensure the reply, I do not doubt that it will continue to survival of Shannon Airport? benefit the mid west, west, south west and north west as it has always done, albeit in an enhanced Mr. O’Donoghue: Last year was the best in the way. history of Irish tourism, as 7.7 million people visited the country and generated almost \4.5 billion Departmental Programmes. in revenue. It was an extraordinary performance 65. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Arts, and is indicative of the resilience of the tourism Sport and Tourism the policies, guidelines or industry. I anticipate that we will exceed those regulations in place regarding his Department’s figures this year, surpassing the 8 million visitor involvement, or the involvement of agencies mark for the first time. under his remit, in initiatives involving commer- 1243 Priority 28 March 2007. Questions 1244

[Mr. Gogarty.] their purchases must amount to almost \4,000 for cial promotions in the area of arts, sport or tour- a Gaelic football worth less than \20, a basketball ism; and if he will make a statement on the coaching bag requires \70,000 worth of purchas- matter. [12000/07] ing and a so-called free indoor hurley needs \3,800 worth of shopping. Unfortunately, this Mr. O’Donoghue: My Department operates a blatant commercialism and cynical use of children range of promotional programmes and initiatives and teachers is legal and made more attractive by in the arts, sport and tourism sectors directly or the lack of real investment in schools’ physical through the many bodies under its remit. The education equipment. overall policy framework governing the work of Does the Minister agree with the sports council the Department is set out in our statement of endorsing a commercial scheme overtly? Is it not strategy 2005-07 and regular annual reports, cop- a morally bankrupt and corrupt practice and what ies of which are available in the Oireachtas will the Minister do about it? Library or on the Department’s website. The terms, guidelines and procedures govern- Mr. O’Donoghue: The Sports Council is ing individual schemes and programmes operated neither morally bankrupt nor corrupt. The directly by the Department, such as the sports council is involved in so far as it can be in increas- capital programme, the local authority swimming ing children’s participation in sport. It operates pool programme and the arts and culture capital Buntu´ s, which is assisted by the commercial sec- enhancement scheme, are posted on the Depart- tor, as the Deputy pointed out. I do not know the ment’s website or are available on request, while modalities or methodologies of the situation, but details of initiatives operated by the State bodies the Buntu´ s programme has been successful. are available from the bodies themselves. Some We are trying to increase the number of chil- of the beneficiaries of the programmes and dren participating in sport because society has a initiatives referred to engage in commercial pro- problem in terms of obesity and its health-related motions as part of their operations, while others difficulties. While we use as much of our funding are purely voluntary or not-for-profit organ- as we can, we are involved with the commercial isations. sector where feasible through the sports council In general, I welcome commercial support and to achieve higher participation rates. Not for a sponsorship for the arts and sport, as such sup- moment do I believe the council would become port complements State support and facilitates involved in any corrupt or immoral practice. enhanced facilities, for example, additional or improved exhibitions or assistance for the devel- Mr. Gogarty: With all due respect, is the Mini- opmental activities of the governing bodies of ster a pimp? Is he trying to keep kids healthy by sport or individual athletes. allowing a body under his remit to prostitute itself The Irish Sports Council’s code of ethics and in providing equipment for them? That is what good practice for children’s sport encourages is happening. The reality is that the Irish Sports sports leaders to refrain from seeking sponsorship Council is endorsing Super Valu, a commercial from the alcohol and tobacco industries. Adher- company with commercial interests, by allowing ence to the code is overseen by the Irish Sports its logo to be used in Super Valu’s advertise- Council. Given the general nature of the ments. Is that an immoral practice, if not a cor- Deputy’s question, it is not clear as to what pre- rupt one? Is it right that a body under the remit cise information he is seeking, but if he wishes to of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism is clarify the matter in a separate question or ques- endorsing a company? Is the Minister saying he endorses Super Valu because it gives a person a tions, I would be happy to provide an appro- \ \ priate reply. GAA ball worth 18 if he or she spends 4,000 in its shops? Mr. Gogarty: The guidelines are woefully inad- Mr. O’Donoghue: I am neither a pimp nor a equate. Does the Minister not know that children wimp. I am trying to explain to the Deputy—— are being exploited with the approval of an agency under his remit? He knows of issues I Mr. Gogarty: The Minister should not wimp have raised with the Minister for Education and out of the question. Science, Deputy Hanafin, regarding the morality and sensibility of allowing commercial businesses Mr. O’Donoghue: The Department of Arts, to peddle their wares in schools, but the Mini- Sport and Tourism is involved, through the Irish ster’s Department has taken it one step further. Sports Council, in trying to help more children to I refer to the Irish Sports Council’s involve- participate in sport. ment in the Kids in Action scheme with Super- valu, the logo of which is in the scheme’s adver- Mr. Gogarty: They are making parents spend tisements. I welcome that since 2004, Supervalu a fortune. has supported Buntu´ s, a non-commercial scheme, but Kids in Action is different. It is an incentive Mr. O’Donoghue: We are using our own fund- scheme involving children collecting bundles of ing, where possible, to enable us to do this in the \10 vouchers to get equipment. For example, greater interests of society. We are also sourcing 1245 Other 28 March 2007. Questions 1246 funding from the commercial sector, where pos- tation group which focused on specific issues or sible. The Irish Sports Council does this where it themes were attended by representatives of rel- is appropriate to do so. evant Departments and State agencies, usually at the level of Secretary General or chief executive Mr. Gogarty: Is it ever appropriate? officer. This model which has worked well is supported Mr. O’Donoghue: It is most unfair of the by the tourism sector which is actively engaged in Deputy — I am surprised at him — to accuse the the process. The implementation group reported Irish Sports Council of being amoral and corrupt. that it was satisfied with the degree of progress in Nothing could be further from the truth. implementing the bulk of the recommendations contained in the action plan of the New Horizons Mr. Gogarty: The Minister should ensure the report. In May 2006 I appointed a successor Irish Sports Council’s logo is removed from Super group, the tourism strategy implementation Valu’s advertisements. group, to advise on implementation of the outstanding recommendations of the New Horizons Other Questions. report. This new implementation group is continuing to meet. It will host a tourism forum in ———— April, to which representatives of the tourism sector will be invited. Tourism Industry. 66. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Arts, Mr. Deenihan: I asked this question because it Sport and Tourism his views on the establishment was obvious that several Departments had some of a tourism standing committee comprising key connection with and involvement in the develop- Departments and State agencies with a view to ment of the tourism industry. It often seems that ensuring a co-ordinated approach to decision certain Departments do not know what others are making and implementation; and if he will make doing. I will give the Minister some examples of a statement on the matter. [11693/07] what I am talking about. When I was travelling on one of the new super trains recently, I was told Mr. O’Donoghue: I understand a Tourism that bicycles could not be transported on them. Council operated during the 1990s. It contained The efforts of Tourism Ireland and Fa´ilte Ireland representatives of various Departments and State to promote cycling as a holiday activity are being agencies and was chaired by the then Minister for stymied by the introduction by the Department Tourism and Trade. Despite some early progress of Transport, through CIE, of new trains which and enthusiasm, the council had a mixed experi- cannot carry bicycles. I was in attendance when ence. As its operation was not particularly satis- the Minister recently launched a new walks com- factory, it eventually petered out. I understand mittee under the aegis of the Irish Sports Council. the establishment of a similar body was con- It seems the committee will operate indepen- sidered but not recommended by the tourism dently of the walks development unit of Tourism policy review group in 2003. Ireland. The Department of Communications, While I fully appreciate the concerns which Marine and Natural Resources is responsible for underpin the Deputy’s question, many of the the development of the tourism product in coastal issues that impact on tourism do not come under areas but it does not seem to engage in great con- the aegis of the Department of Arts, Sport and tact with the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism alone. If the potential of the tourism Tourism in that regard. industry is to be fully realised, key policies and Decisions being taken in the Departments I decisions should reflect the needs of the sector. have mentioned, as well as the Departments of This was recognised as a critical issue by the tour- Finance; Education and Science; and the Envir- ism policy review group. Rather than recom- onment, Heritage and Local Government, mending the establishment of a tourism strategy impinge on the tourism product and affect the committee, the review group decided to focus on future of the tourism industry. It is obvious that the development of an intensive bilateral engage- there is little communication between the various ment with key Departments and State agencies Departments and the lead Department in this on priority issues. regard — the Department of Arts, Sport and Following publication of the review group’s Tourism. Other countries have established bodies report in September 2003, I established a group to co-ordinate their responses to various issues in to monitor implementation of the tourism action this area. The tourism industry will increase in plan. While the implementation group contained importance as the agriculture and fishing indus- considerable tourism expertise, it was not a cross- tries continue to decline in many rural areas. departmental group. During the two years of its Tourism is our main hope. A number of reports existence, the group and the Department of Arts, I have seen have recommended a greater focus Sport and Tourism engaged directly with a on joined-up thinking and cross-departmental co- number of other Departments and State agencies operation, but it is obvious that such progress is on key issues which affected the tourism develop- not happening. I strongly recommend that we ment agenda. The meetings of the implemen- take such an approach. 1247 Other 28 March 2007. Questions 1248

Mr. O’Donoghue: When I became Minister for I ask the Minister to talk to his colleague, the Arts, Sport and Tourism, I decided to establish Minister for Communications, Marine and the tourism policy review group to examine the Natural Resources, about the many problems tourism industry and ascertain how a greater being faced by those involved in the coarse fish- degree of interaction between the relevant ing sector, in particular. Many international Departments and State agencies could be facili- magazines are reporting that Ireland is not as tated. The review group which operated success- attractive an angling destination, especially for fully under the chairmanship of Mr. John Travers those interested in coarse fishing, as it used to be. produced a report that contained over 70 recom- Such factors are having a detrimental effect on mendations. When I received that report, I estab- the progress being made with this part of the lished an implementation review group to moni- tourism industry. tor implementation of the review group’s recommendations. The implementation review Mr. O’Donoghue: I have established a group to group has successfully engaged with Departments monitor implementation of the plans outlined in and agencies on their implementation. It has the New Horizons report. worked successfully with the Secretaries General of various Departments and the chief executives Mr. Deenihan: It is not a statutory body. of various State agencies. I recently established a follow-on group to ensure the action plan was Mr. O’Donoghue: It is obvious the Minister, implemented. This group is monitoring imple- Deputy Noel Dempsey, can answer questions mentation of the rest of the proposals from the about the Department of Communications, review group’s report. Marine and Natural Resources. A number of I am satisfied that the sector benefits from a far initiatives have been undertaken in recent times greater degree of co-operation and co-operation with a view to increasing participation in angling than used to be the case. The current leader of tourism. I accept that there has been a reduction the Fine Gael Party, Deputy Kenny, established in the number of anglers coming to this country the Tourism Council when he was Minister for from overseas. A substantial number of such Tourism and Trade. I am sure he would agree tourists used to come in the late 1990s, but that that the council did not work, unfortunately, and number halved in the following six or seven years. eventually petered out. The Government has taken steps in recent times to examine whether that trend can be reversed. Mr. Deenihan: The proposed committee would The House is aware of the measures upon which be totally different. we have embarked. We will see an increase in the number of angling tourists in the future. The Mr. O’Donoghue: The group I mentioned is central and regional fisheries boards are aware of successful and is working. the need to replenish the rivers.

Mr. Deenihan: That is not the recommendation Sport and Recreational Development. I have made. 67. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if he will report on the activi- Mr. O’Donoghue: The level of co-operation ties of the National Sports Campus; the number and co-ordination seen is unprecedented. of people that have utilised the facilities; the expected development of the stadium; and if he Mr. Deenihan: There is a lack of co-ordination. will make a statement on the matter. [11532/07]

Mr. Wall: I agree with Deputy Deenihan’s pro- 75. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, posal. When I attended a meeting of anglers in Sport and Tourism his intentions in regard to the Athy yesterday, those present expressed major development of the remainder of the Abbotstown concern that many of the English angling clubs site; if it will be in the context of Campus Stadium which used to come to their part of the country Ireland or otherwise; and if he will make a state- each year were no longer doing so because there ment on the matter. [11768/07] was a scarcity of fish in the rivers in the south Kildare area. The two representatives of the Mr. O’Donoghue: I propose to take Questions Southern Regional Fisheries Board who attended Nos. 67 and 75 together. the meeting said the board was not getting With regard to the overall development of the enough funding from the Department of National Sports Campus at Abbotstown, the Communications, Marine and Natural Resources House is aware that the Government has pro- to provide the necessary protection, etc. A major vided \149 million under the National Develop- tourist attraction in my local area is suffering ment Plan 2007-2013 for the development of a because the Department is not committed to its campus of sports facilities. This comprises \119 development. It is obvious that tourists are suffer- million to fund phase 1 of the campus project and ing as a result. I mention this case to highlight \30 million, committed at this stage, towards the the need for interdepartmental resolve to ensure development of further facilities in the next phase every aspect of the tourism industry is supported. of development. 1249 Other 28 March 2007. Questions 1250

The facilities to be provided in phase 1 of the development of phase 1 of the campus, I have development will meet the indoor and outdoor requested that the new board would identify and training needs of Irish elite sportspersons, who prioritise the next phase of the development of compete at national and international levels and the Abbotstown project. will also provide for the needs of the local com- The National Aquatic Centre, NAC, which was munity. Preliminary planning for this phase has the first facility on the site, was restored to the commenced and the National Sports Campus direct control of what is now the National Sports Development Authority is currently preparing a Campus Development Authority in November tender to appoint a design and project manage- 2006. This brought closure of an unhappy chapter ment team for the project. It is too early in the for that facility. The operation of the NAC is now development stage of the project for projected managed by a subsidiary company of the National statistics of use of the facilities but the national Sports Campus Development Authority. I am governing bodies have confirmed their willing- pleased to say the business of the centre is ness to use the facility extensively when it is operating satisfactorily — the facility is now in developed. good condition and a full check on the total The facilities provided in phase 1 of the project facility is being carried out with a view to putting will include a national field sports training centre the centre on a footing which is appropriate to catering for rugby, soccer, Gaelic games and the standard of service it is capable of delivering. hockey; a national indoor training centre that will The Abbotstown facilities, when completed, will provide world class training facilities for over 30 provide a much needed range of training and governing bodies of sport; accommodation for competitive facilities for our sportspersons who sports men and women; sports science and medi- continue to represent our country with passion, cal facilities; all-weather synthetic pitches for pride and success. community use and renovation of existing buildings to cater for needs identified by sports bodies. Mr. Deenihan: The NAC is a flagship develop- The Government decision for this stage of ment on the campus. Will the Minister confirm development included agreement to move the that extensive repairs have been carried out in headquarters of the FAI to the former State lab- recent times and that the building company, oratory building at Abbotstown. Planning per- Ascon Rohcon, has been on site for some weeks, mission for a change of use of the State labora- confirming that there were large defects in the tory was secured and work on the building is original building? This side of the House main- about to get under way. Subject to suitable terms tained the fine building should be repaired on the lease being finalised, it is expected the FAI because it was built speedily. What was the extent will relocate there during this year. It is also of the repairs? Has the snag list been resolved? intended to provide a headquarters for the Irish Since the subsidiary of National Sports Campus Institute of Sport by refurbishing an existing Development Authority took over the centre it is building on the site and the institute should be reportedly losing a considerable amount of based there later this year. money in running costs. A planning study for the Abbotstown site has recently been completed by an inter-agency Mr. O’Donoghue: I do not have the figures for group, including my Department, which was the running costs. This is an extremely successful undertaken under the provisions of the Fingal development, with thousands of people visiting it county development plan. This study sets out the every year. mix of sporting, leisure, and amenity facilities that would be appropriate for the site. The planning Mr. Deenihan: Is it making money? Everyone study was presented to Fingal County Council knows it is successful. and was considered at a council meeting on 12 March. A proposal to change the zoning of a Mr. O’Donoghue: There was a legal case large portion of the site to open space to allow involving Dublin Waterworld Ltd and CSID was for sports use and for the woodland area of the obliged to initiative legal proceedings against the site to be zoned high amenity will be considered former for forfeiture of the lease at the NAC by the council before the summer. because of its failure to comply with obligations In January, under the National Sports Campus under the lease. The NAC was taken over by Development Authority Act 2006, I established CSID, which is now the National Sports Campus the National Sports Campus Development Auth- Development Authority. There was a snag list ority on a statutory basis to succeed in function and, as with all construction projects, there is a and responsibility Campus and Stadium Ireland process for dealing with any snags that arise. Development Company Ltd, CSID. To coincide Dublin Waterworld Ltd refused to facilitate with the new authority, I appointed a board com- access to the centre while a dispute about the prising a judicious mix of the board members of lease was in progress. The final snag list is not the former company CSID and some new faces yet satisfactorily resolved. Some \23,000 has been who will bring expertise to the tasks facing the retained and will not be paid until the snag list new authority, under the chairmanship of Mr. has been completed. Getting these matters Dan Flinter. In addition to overseeing the resolved is a long, drawn out process in projects 1251 Other 28 March 2007. Questions 1252

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] that the institute will have a great deal of contact of this magnitude. Work will resume and remain- with a number of universities, the University of ing issues will be resolved without delay. If there Limerick, in particular, which has been enor- are any structural defects this is a matter for mously successful. The National Coaching Centre Rohcon. hosted more than 20 athletes who went on to win Olympic medals. That is indicative of the stan- Mr. Wall: Will the 30 national sporting organis- dard of facilities and personnel located at the ations have a presence at the campus or will the centre. However, the Institute of Sport will have total operation of each organisation be under- its headquarts at Abbotstown. While the arrange- taken from Abbotstown? What will be the cost of ments between the headquarters and constituent this? Will premises be leased for an annual fee? parts of the organisation have yet to be fully ironed out, suffice it to say the University of Mr. O’Donoghue: It is not intended that the Limerick will play an active part in the develop- headquarters of each body be located at ment of facilities for the institute and related Abbotstown in the near future. The FAI head- matters. quarters will move there immediately and the Institute of Sport will be there by the end of the World Tourism Organisation. year. Other national governing bodies of sport will move headquarters to Abbotstown. The 68. Mr. McEntee asked the Minister for Arts, training centre provided under phase 1 will Sport and Tourism the reason Ireland is not a provide world class training facilities for over 30 member of the United Nations World Tourism governing bodies of sport. It will not be an Organisation in view of the importance of that accommodation centre but a training centre for body as an instrument for tourism research and minority sports. For example, there will be a bas- policy development; and if he will make a state- ketball court for Basketball Ireland. This will ment on the matter. [11750/07] enable elite athletes from the governing bodies of sport to reach their full potential. Back-up will Mr. O’Donoghue: The World Tourism Organ- be provided by the Institute of Sport, providing isation, WTO, was established in 1975 to replace medical, nutritional and physiological advice. The the International Union of Official Travel Organ- intention is to ensure our athletes have the same isations, whose membership comprised the back-up as those in other countries. The vision is national tourism organisations of more that 80 that this commences the construction of a neck- countries, including Ireland. The WTO became a lace with pearls of varying sizes being added at specialised agency of the United Nations in 2003. varying intervals by various Governments until Ireland has never been a member of the WTO. I the necklace is complete. note that a number of other EU countries such as Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Finland and Mr. Deenihan: The Minister and the Taoiseach Sweden are not included in the current list of announced the establishment of the Institute of members. I understand the USA is also not a Sport some time ago. Legislation will be needed member. to underpin the establishment. Will there be time For most tourism administrations, the most to rush through legislation? Will the Minister useful aspect of WTO activity has been its role in refer briefly to the relationship between the new compiling international tourism statistics. Faílte institute and Coaching Ireland in Limerick? The Ireland has long co-operated with the WTO in experts will be in the institute, while the coaches this area and, as a result of supplying statistics will be developed in Limerick. Has the Minister to the organisation, receives full access to WTO determined what the relationship will be between statistical information. the two bodies? The Institute of Sport will The question of Irish membership of the WTO obviously include science and medical personnel, has been considered on a number of occasions while the coaching staff in Limerick will, no since 1975. The consistent opinion has been that doubt, include all the top coaches. the potential benefits to Irish tourism are limited and would not justify the costs involved. Both Mr. O’Donoghue: Since time and tide wait for Tourism Ireland and Faílte Ireland have access to no man, I do not anticipate that we will be in a WTO reports and indicated that Irish member- position to push through the legislation for the ship would not result in any improvement in Institute of Sport this session. I anticipate, information access. Neither do they view funding however, that the legislation will be introduced for membership of the WTO as a priority. When some time this year in order to put the institute the question of membership was considered in on a statutory footing. Clearly, it will be a matter 2003, it was estimated that the annual cost of Irish for the Minister, whoever he or she will be, to membership would be over \140,000 and it is decide what direction the institute should take. I likely to be even higher for future years. It is not have views of my own to which he or she may clear if additional calls for funding support will have access if I am not in office. arise. On the relationship of the Institute of Sport Since the WTO was established in 1975, the with the University of Limerick, it is the intention scale and performance of the Irish tourism indus- 1253 Other 28 March 2007. Questions 1254 try has changed beyond measure and I doubt that have to refute the Deputy’s contention that our membership of the WTO would have added sig- product is old and stale. Nothing could be further nificantly to that performance. The Deputy will from the truth. be aware of the record performance in 2006 when over 7.7 million overseas visitors came to the Mr. Deenihan: The Minister should read the country, generating almost \4.7 billion in associ- recent report compiled by Faílte Ireland. His own ated revenue. While I was pleased to secure a agency stated it. record level of Exchequer funding for the tourism services budget in 2007, it is also my responsibility Mr. O’Donoghue: The increase in the number to ensure money is used for the most efficient and of visitors last year to 7.7 million is clear evidence productive reasons. Accordingly, while there is a that a great many do not agree with the Deputy. cost to WTO membership, there are limited tan- gible benefits. I do not propose, therefore, to Mr. Deenihan: Is the Minister refuting what change Ireland’s long-standing policy of non- Faílte Ireland stated? It is mentioned on the first membership at this stage. page of its report.

Mr. Deenihan: The sum of \140,000 would Mr. O’Donoghue: Fa´ilte Ireland has long co- seem a small price to pay for sitting around the operated with the WTO in the publication of table with some of the leading players in world tourism statistics. tourism, including some of our main competitors. Tourism will become an even greater driver of Mr. Deenihan: As regards our product being economic activity with the decline of other native tired, it is mentioned on the first page of the industries such as agriculture and fisheries. As a report. wealthy country that is doing well, Ireland surely must play its role in international tourism inno- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Minister to vation and research. We have much to give, but continue without interruption. also much to learn. It is not doing our status as a driver of world tourism activity any good not Mr. Deenihan: I am just clarifying the position. being involved with this organisation, the recognised body for world tourism. There are benefits Mr. O’Donoghue: As I said, Fa´ilte Ireland has to be gained. Possibly the WTO might hold its long co-operated with the WTO in the compi- annual conference in Ireland, in which case the lation of tourism statistics. As a result of supply- Minister would recoup whatever investments ing statistics to the organisation, it has full access were made. He would make important contacts to WTO statistical material. Tourism Ireland also with other countries which would be of benefit to enjoys full access to WTO reports and analysis business tourism interests which his Department for little or no charge. I see little point, therefore, \ are pushing at this time. The WTO is an official in eking out 140,000 of taxpayer’s money to join UN agency and can facilitate close working an organisation from which there will be no relationships with other countries. additional benefit. Every day in Ireland we speak of product inno- \ vation but our own product has gone stale and is Mr. Deenihan: We pay out 900 million every tired. We know what is happening in other coun- year in overseas aid. tries. I know it may be read over the Internet, but it is only when one comes face to face with Mr. O’Donoghue: It would be absolutely point- experts from other countries that one learns less and I do not intend to do so now. The about what is happening in world tourism. The incoming Minister might have a different view on Minister has not read this issue correctly. The the matter, which is fine with me. However, it is my opinion that it is not worthwhile joining the next Minister will have to look seriously at it. I WTO. It would have been fine to join to see ask the Minister to have the Secretary General of whether it would be possible to attract additional his Department, Mr. Haugh, to take a serious tourism business but the reality is that tourism is look at it, to review the benefits in view of the one of the most competitive businesses in the developments that have occurred within the world. Far from helping one another, members of organisation in recent years and the fact that it is the WTO are in hard competition with one driving the tourism sector across the world, Third another. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, World countries included. There are Third World it is a tough world and we are in competition with countries which are members of the WTO. As we all WTO members. have an obligation towards least developed states, surely this would be a very important forum to Mr. Deenihan: We must learn from each which be a member, if only to provide assistance other too. for them, given our successful experience in attracting tourists. Arts Council. Mr. O’Donoghue: For 30 years and more this 69. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for country has not been a member of the WTO. I Arts, Sport and Tourism the discussions that have 1255 Other 28 March 2007. Questions 1256

[Mr. Eamon Ryan.] in my objective to enhance the resourcing of the been held with other Departments, including the arts and culture sector. I have taken the sector Department of Education and Science, with a from the periphery of the policy circle to its very view to seeking additional funding for the Arts core. For 2007, I secured more than \216 million Council for educational projects; and if he will for the arts and culture sector. The national make a statement on the matter. [11722/07] development plan has allocated more than \900 million for capital projects in the area. Unques- Mr. O’Donoghue: A special committee was tionably, neither I nor this Government has been established to advise the Arts Council on how found deficient in funding the arts and culture best to align the council’s strategies for the pro- sector. motion and encouragement of the arts with the priorities of the formal education system. The arts Mr. Gogarty: Will the Minister acknowledge and education committee members are Mary the provision of a dedicated funding channel is Nunan, Arts Council member, Jerome Morrissey, necessary for the Arts Council? Will he meet National Centre for Training in Technology, Pat regularly with the Arts Council? With Deputy MacSitric, assistant chief inspector, Department Boyle, I have met Arts Council representatives of Education and Science, Mr. Derek West, chair regularly and their one constant comment is that of National Association of Principals and Deputy the council does not have the moneys to secure Principals, Orlaith McBride, Arts Council performing arts and other art forms to attend member. The committee is due to report with its schools and enhance the primary and secondary recommendations, in May, after which consider- schools curriculum. ation can be given to their implementation and The Green Party has announced that if in any possible funding requirements. government, it will provide an additional \10 mil- In its deliberations, the committee will have lion from education funding to the Arts Council. regard to the wide-ranging demands on the Is the Minister prepared to push for this through school curriculum bearing in mind that responsibility for determining its content rests with the his Department or in consultations with the Mini- Minister for Education and Science. It will have ster for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin? regard to the need to prioritise and cost its The arts play an important role in society in recommendations; that these recommendations assisting in developing students’ creativity which must have regard both to their resource impli- can lead to better, more rounded individuals who cations for the Arts Council and the budgetary will ultimately benefit the economy. resources available over the next four years to the Minister for Education and Science for the Mr. O’Donoghue: After the establishment of development of services in the education sector the Arts Council, I established a committee to which must be allocated to fund existing policy examine policy for the traditional arts. Sub- commitments. Subject to these factors, it will consequently, the committee’s report set out a policy sider the identification of what additional sources framework. It was accepted there was no coher- of funding, if any, might be available to fund its ent policy for the traditional arts and they were recommendations and the roles and partnerships under-resourced. As a result of the policy docu- appropriate for relevant State and other agencies ment being accepted by the Arts Council, we suc- and bodies in this context, including the Depart- ceeded in funding the traditional arts. Ever since, ment of Education and Science, the Arts Council, they have been flowering. vocational committees and local authorities. The Following on from this, I established the edu- focus of the special committee’s advice should be cation and arts committee under Mary Nunan. It on making specific and deliverable recom- is continuing its deliberations with a view to pro- mendations for implementation over three to ducing a policy document which will be presented five years. some time in May. In the autumn during the Giving the arts a higher, more consistent pro- Estimates process I hope that under the tenure of file at both primary and post-primary levels, can whoever is the Minister responsible, the arts and bring significant benefits to students. It is education policy document will be implemented important to stress this applies to all students and with the same fervour, enthusiasm and enlighten- not just to those who are recognised as being ment as the traditional arts policy was. particularly gifted artistically. As the future of the arts resides with our children, it is vital the arts Access to Sporting Facilities. are embedded in our education system at all levels. I look forward to seeing the results of the 70. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Arts, committee’s work and am committed to encour- Sport and Tourism if he will expand on his recent aging participation in the arts as part of our chil- comments regarding his hope that Croke Park dren’s education. would be made available for soccer and rugby Any question of funding to implement the beyond 2007 and 2008; the expected scenarios recommendations of the committee will be that would arise if the GAA do not grant such addressed in the context of the 2008 Estimates permission; if he has had discussions with the process. During my tenure, I have been singular GAA, the FAI and the IRFU regarding same; 1257 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1258 and if he will make a statement on the matter. ration of a blind pension to a person in County [11734/07] Waterford; (3) Deputy Cowley — the need to provide funding for the Ballinrobe youth Mr. O’Donoghue: The question of the GAA development project, County Mayo; (4) Deputies continuing with its policy of accommodating Michael D. Higgins and McCormack — the need rugby and soccer in Croke Park is one for the for the Government to take steps to ameliorate GAA alone to decide. It has always been my the deteriorated and unsafe condition of policy not to interfere in this matter. I pay tribute Galway’s water supply; (5) Deputy Penrose — to the GAA for agreeing to accommodate inter- the turbary rights of farmers in the Carn Park and national rugby and soccer matches in Croke Park Crosswood Bogs; (6) Deputy Olivia Mitchell — in 2007. I commend the association on its decision the need to restore National Educational Psycho- of 17 February last, which will allow for the use logical Service cover to schools in the constitu- of Croke Park for rugby and soccer internationals ency of Dublin South; (7) Deputy Enright — the in 2008. The Lansdowne Road stadium will not need for adequate funding for the provision of be completed until 2009 and may not be available digital hearing aids for all applicants; (8) Deputy for games until 2010. I would hope the GAA O´ Snodaigh — the need for the Minister for would be in a position to accommodate the FAI Health and Children to address the longest wait- and the IRFU in 2009. This would benefit all ing list for drug addicts in the Ballyfermot area; sporting fans in ensuring that important inter- (9) Deputy Catherine Murphy — the need for the national fixtures are accommodated on Irish soil. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and In January 2004, the Government agreed to Local Government to address infrastructural provide funding of \191 million to the joint funding inadequacies in counties such as Kildare IRFU-FAI project for the redevelopment of in light of the significant population growth seen Lansdowne Road stadium as a 50,000-capacity in recent years; (10) Deputy Gilmore — the delay all-seater stadium. The recent decision taken by by the Department of Foreign Affairs in provid- An Bord Pleana´la has now cleared the way ing a certificat de coutume needed by a person to for the redevelopment to commence. The allow them to marry get married in Malta; and Lansdowne Road facility will be out of com- (11) Deputy Hayes — the pupil-teacher ratio in mission for a period. A welcome agreement has a school in County Tipperary. been reached between the GAA, IRFU and the The matters raised by Deputies Enright, FAI with regard to international rugby and soccer Michael D. Higgins and McCormack and fixtures in 2007 and 2008. Whether a similar Catherine Murphy have been selected for agreement can be reached in 2009 is a matter for discussion. the three organisations involved. The staging of the Six Nations rugby inter- European Communities Bill 2007 [Seanad]: nationals against France and England at Croke Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage. Park was a resounding success. Furthermore, Ireland’s European Championship qualifier Debate resumed on amendment No. 4: against Wales on Saturday, before a crowd of In page 3, to delete lines 16 to 33 and in page more than 70,000 spectators and watched by 4, to delete lines 1 and 2. many more at home, was another historic —(Deputy Costello). occasion. I am particularly pleased these matches Minister of State at the Department of Foreign have given international exposure to the GAA Affairs (Mr. Treacy): In the interventions, and Croke Park. No longer is the facility Ireland’s Deputies Allen and Crowe made negative best kept secret but rather a stadium which is the general comments about the European Union. envy of the world. I look forward to further great entertainment when the remaining international Mr. Allen: No. we did not. rugby and the soccer fixtures take place there over the next two years. Tonight, I hope we will Mr. Treacy: Deputy Allen said we ought to be celebrating at the expense of our friends stop praising the European Union and respond to from Slovakia. public concerns over jobs and enlargement. I do not agree with him. Fifty years of European Mr. Gogarty: Hear, hear. achievement is well worth celebrating, as hap- Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate. pened in Berlin last weekend. The EU has transformed Europe into a peaceful and prosperous place. It has also transformed Ireland. We need Adjournment Debate Matters. to remind ourselves of these gains and move on An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I wish to advise to tackle the new challenges that lie ahead. the House of the following matters in respect of Deputy Allen blames the EU, particularly which notice has been given under Standing enlargement, for certain negative developments. Order 21 and the name of the Member in each This is a strange position for a Deputy who is pro- case: (1) Deputy Costello — the need to include European. I am convinced the European Union a residents-only parking clause by amending the remains the best prospect that we in Ireland have Roads Bill 2007; (2) Deputy O’Shea — the resto- of securing a future in which the undoubted gains 1259 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1260

[Mr. Treacy.] Crowe’s tongue given his party’s recent accept- we have made since 1973 can be maintained and ance of the democratic principles on which this built upon. Da´il and State are founded. Deputy Crowe’s As regards enlargement, there is now a natural intervention reveals once against that his party’s pause in the process. No further accessions are politics on the European Union are at least 40 planned for some years. This allows time for all years behind the times. of us to make the best of the 27 member state Union that exists. Future accessions will take Aengus O´ Snodaigh: Therefore, the Minister place when a candidate country meets all the con- agreed with them 40 years ago. ditions for membership. In all the negotiations we have had since 2004 and since the accession of Mr. Treacy: I was a little boy in national school Bulgaria and Romania, Ireland and its colleagues 40 years ago. have made it clear that all candidate countries will have to meet all the conditions for member- Mr. Allen: The Minister of State is acting like ship. I do not envisage any large-scale enlarge- a little boy now with his reply. ment in the coming decades along the lines that occurred in 2004 when Ireland held the Mr. Treacy: I am now a mature adult having Presidency. served 25 years in this House—— Deputy Crowe spoke of his party’s fundamen- ´ tal opposition to Ireland’s membership of the Aengus O Snodaigh: The Minister of State’s European Union. He called this legislation a party might have agreed with them 40 years ago. “nightmare” and spoke of the European super- Mr. Treacy: ——and I am blessed to have great state. He used the word “nightmare” in his attack advice and great colleagues. I am guided by the on the Bill and on the European Union generally. wisdom of this House at all times—— All I can say is that the isolationist path favoured by the Deputy and his colleagues would be a Aengus O´ Snodaigh: There is very little wis- nightmare for this country if we were forced to dom on the Minister of State’s side of the House. reverse and to have to stand alone against the ravages of international pressures, global Mr. Treacy: ——and, more particularly, the inflation, major financial decisions being taken in wisdom of the Irish nation — the people of our international headquarters and capitals through- country. out the world and had to compete in a market I would have thought that a party which boasts where we were totally dependent on our own two Members of the European Parliament would resources without any support either structurally be better informed of the particular realities of or financially from an external organisation like defending Ireland’s interest in the European the European Union. Are they in denial about Union in 2007. I am sure that Deputies Costello the vast gains we have made since 1973, many of and Allen would agree with me that whatever our which are attributable to our EU membership? concerns about the direction of certain European Do they want us to return to a time of high unem- policies, we continue to respect fully the demo- ployment and high levels of emigration when our cratic decision of the sovereign Irish people taken best and largest export was the brightest people almost 35 years ago on 10 May 1972 to pledge we had, we left this country to build up econom- our future to peace and prosperity in Europe. ies across the world to the detriment of our own? That would be the likely result of following the Aengus O´ Snodaigh: If the Government had anti-EU line advocated by the Deputy and his lost that, it would have asked for a second vote. party. I remind the Deputy and his party colleagues Mr. Treacy: The late Jack Lynch spoke on the that this Bill is a subject for debate, which is an debate in this Chamber more than 40 years ago honest response by the Government to the when we had made the decision to reactivate judgments of the Supreme Court. We did not ask Ireland’s second application for membership for for this situation but as constitutional parliamen- membership of the European Economic Com- tarians we are all obliged to accept the decisions munity. He opted for EC membership because he of that court and respond to them. Members of understood, as leader of the nation at the time all parties in this House over the years have over 40 years ago, that our economic future lay in recognised the primacy of that court and the the Common Market and he saw that Irish people implications its decisions has for us as legislators. wanted to prolong and share in the ideal of a I have made that point time and again since 1 united Europe that was economically strong and December last when this debate commenced in a powerful influence for peace. How right he was. the Seanad. He said in this House that the freedom we enjoy Deputy Crowe used the term “coup d’e´tat” in has been hard won, other nations have fought describing the implications of a Bill to alter the hard for their freedom and they treasure it no less way that this State transposes its EU obligations. than we do. The countries which have subscribed This is an offensive exaggeration. Some might to the Rome treaty value what they have suggest that these words roll easier off Deputy achieved as separate nations. They value too what 1261 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1262 they are creating in common. Our wish is to share We do not have full knowledge of that. The in this great task. scraps of three sheets of paper that make up this Deputy Crowe and his party are slow learners Bill do not properly explain the full extent of on EU issues and on the pooling of sovereignty what we are dealing with today. I asked the Mini- that membership involves. They seem to see the ster to insert in the Bill a schedule of the laws political task facing this country through the lens and statutory instruments to be retrospectively of narrow nationalism. The Government and endorsed, but that was not produced. As the main Opposition parties recognise and are aware Minister has not proceeded that way and refused that the task we face is a broad one. Promoting on Committee Stage to produce such a schedule, and defending Ireland’s interest in the European my amendment proposes to delete this and other Union is a real national interest about which sections of the Bill. Without the inclusion of such there is no doubt. This Bill is part of our response a schedule the wool is being pulled over the eyes to our evolving obligations in the European of Members of this House but also, as my col- Union. We will not be found wanting in that league suggested, this Bill is a coup d’e´tat to a national objective by snipping comments about degree. the European Union from the Sinn Fe´in back- What we are doing is handing the Minister of benches. It is time that members of that party State and future Ministers additional powers but recognised that they, too, as citizens of this coun- we are handing the Minister of State in particular try like all other citizens have benefited from the the power to retrospectively endorse European Union. What we are doing today is 4 o’clock a swathe of statutory instruments and legislation. For any person to have simply putting through legislation that recognises that type of power amounts to a coup d’e´tat. At the responsibilities we have as a result of the two the very least and out of respect to this House a Supreme Court judgments and vis-a`-vis the Euro- list detailing the full implications of this legis- pean Union and that links the initial legislation lation should have been produced. The explana- of 1972 with our evolving requirements through tory memorandum does not contain a such list. legislative processes both primary and secondary We do not know the number of legislative since 1972 to today. We are refining our legis- measures being dealt with in this regard. lation to take account of the strength of the Union and of Ireland and our strong responsibil- Mr. Allen: I expected that we would have a ities to ensure that our laws concur and are sym- fairly adult and mature debate on the issues biotic and parallel with the directives of the Euro- before us but—— pean Union to ensure that we can fulfil our legislative operations and requirements as a sov- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy has ereign state within a proud and successful Euro- two minutes. pean Union. Mr. Allen: I will deal with the matter in two ´ Aengus O Snodaigh: I will not give a long minutes. I expected us to have an adult and response to the Minister of State’s bait other than mature debate on the issues. I tried to be as con- to say that nobody is denying the benefits of EU structive as possible in my earlier contribution membership. What we are denying are the but the Minister of State misrepresented my posi- benefits of further integration, further loss of sov- tion. He spoke about being a little boy in short ereignty and a further reduction in our indepen- pants but he is behaving like one now in dence. We welcomed and encouraged further attempting to misrepresent my views and those of enlargement and we have gone further than the my party. I said in my earlier contribution that Minister of State in encouraging that all new my party and I are strongly pro-Europe but that member states accede to the Union on an equal the actions of the Minister of State and of the footing with existing member states. Earlier this Government in trying to bypass this House by year the Government refused that to Romania introducing European directives and legislation and Bulgaria. by means of statutory instrument undermines this Turning to the Bill before us, I asked the Mini- House and Irish law. We set out procedures ster a number of questions on Committee Stage which could be followed to safeguard the integ- about the effect of this Bill when enacted and rity of the House, but he is not prepared to deal what legislation it will cover. What are we retro- with those positive proposals from this side of spectively trying to endorse by this legislation? the House. That is the nature of this Bill. The Supreme Court I said that I feared for the European Consti- asked us to do this otherwise those legislative tution and the referendum that may be held measures would have been found unconsti- within the next two years. I fear for its passing tutional. I accept this must be done. I have not because I believe the Minister of State’s actions denied that but it should be done by the House and those of the Government as well as what has on an individual basis in terms of the legislation been happening in this country in recent times concerned or at least in the full knowledge of the raise grave doubts in people’s minds. I referred legislation that will be covered by the enactment earlier to the drift of jobs from west to east, the of this Bill. new member states and people’s fears about the 1263 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1264

[Mr. Allen.] House so that citizens recognise we are not ongoing rush towards enlargement. I stated there undermining the House by means of European would need to be time out, as they say in basket- legislation. ball, to reassess the ability of the European struc- tures to accommodate the accessions that took Mr. Crowe: When I heard the Minister of place since 2004. State’s reply I returned to the House to reiterate We should not lecture people by telling them my position on this Bill. Before the sos I outlined that Europe is good for them but rather we my concerns about the Bill, but the Minister of should listen to the people’s opinions and fears State or whoever wrote the speech for him seems and try to address them. One issue of concern is to have come up with a different version of the undercutting of salary and wage rates by events. I expressed concerns about the direction people coming from the new member states. That in which this Bill is going and that we were being is not the fault of the people coming into this asked to agree to a blank page regarding future country but rather of Fianna-Faíl led Govern- legislation. ments for failing to have a decent inspectorate to I know that the Minister of State is accustomed deal with undercutting and the non-compliance to gilding the lily and he ended up before a tri- with the minimum wage in many cases, of which bunal about gilding the lily on a radio station. He the Minister of State and I are aware. All these has gilded the lily again today and I ask him to issues raise concerns which will make things diffi- retract his statement. Neither I nor my party are cult. To top it all, the Minister of State is anti-European, we are pro-European. I am not bypassing the Daíl with this type of legislation. anti-democratic but I believe this Bill is. The There is a way around it which will keep the Minister of State’s remarks are regrettable in the Opposition happy and alleviate people’s fears. manner in which he described our organisation The Minister of State’s response is to misrep- and our party. We were trying to outline our con- resent our position and that is wrong. We asked cerns about this Bill in a sane and logical manner. for a full and frank discussion, but the debate These concerns are shared by many in this coun- must end at 4.45 p.m., which is not a full and try and by many in this Chamber, in particular on frank discussion. We will be opposing this Bill. this side of the House. The Minister of State is trying to back us into Mr. Costello: The Minister of State was busy a corner and implying we are trying to do some- during the sos putting together that tome he has thing that we are not trying to do. I ask him to just delivered to the House. None of us on this reflect on my remarks made before the sos as side of the House said one bad word against the they will be written in the Official Report of Daíl European Union. We are in favour of the Euro- proceedings. I outlined the undemocratic nature pean Union, which we strongly support. It ill- of this Bill, which is bringing us in a direction that behoves the Minister of State to try to paint us as is of concern. I ask the Minister of State to read opponents of the European Union. my exact words on this issue. Our concern is that, because we support the European Union, we want to ensure that we get Mr. Treacy: I listened with great interest to all this legislation right so that others who do not the contributions before the sos. I always listen to support the European Union cannot use the legis- contributions and I take notice of what is said. lation to undermine our position and the good The best advice I could give to Deputy Crowe is work of the European Union. If proper channels to refer him to a Latin maxim, verba volant, littera of accountability are to be bypassed by means of scripta manet, meaning, words fly, the written this legislation, we are not doing a good day’s word remains. I ask him to read the record of the work. This is our concern and we pointed out House and balance what he said against what I what we consider to be the unacceptable aspects said in response and we can discuss it on another of the legislation. It confers on the Minister a day. I have been positively appraising, to the best power which up to this has never been conferred of my ability, all the remarks made. I made it on any Minister in the history of this House. It clear that the two main Opposition parties, with allows a Minister to alter and amend a directive the Government, are completely pro-Europe—— or legislation and present it to the House as a final product which must be obeyed under severe Mr. Crowe: I did not say what the Minister of penalty by every citizen of the State. The penal- State said I did. I am concerned about what legis- ties are not summary but indictable penalties. lation is getting past him. This has never happened before and it would be a bad day’s work if this House were to rubber- Mr. Costello: The Minister of State did not stamp it. make the position clear. The Opposition wants to ensure that the Euro- pean Union has a future and will not be under- Mr. Treacy: Deputy Costello might not have mined by Eurosceptics because we have left the been listening but I did so. A number of Members gate open here. Deputy Allen is Chairman of the referred to sweeping powers being granted under Sub-Committee on European Scrutiny. This legis- this legislation. I wish to make two points. First, lation should be properly processed through this such powers will be limited to Ministers and, 1265 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1266 second, they can only be used, where necessary, plenty of time in which to comment on the to give effect to our European Union obligations. amendment. We are not creating a carte blanche situation. Mr. Costello: On a point of order, the Minister Mr. Costello: The Government is doing so. of State indicated——

Mr. Treacy: The Deputy is an experienced An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Costello may Member of Parliament and he knows that we are reply to the debate at this point. not doing so. Every Minister is an elected Member of Parliament—— Mr. Treacy: I would like to respond on the amendment. Mr. Costello: The Minister of State should reread section 4(2). An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister of State responded to interruptions that were made, which An Ceann Comhairle: Is this Deputy Costello’s he should not have done. Is the House prepared third contribution? to allow him to comment on the amendment?

Mr. Costello: I would like to make a fourth Mr. Allen: No, we do not have enough time to contribution if I may. allow him to do so.

Mr. Treacy: I am somewhat confused. I was of An Ceann Comhairle: I hope Deputy Allen the view that on Report Stage we could only remembers that time is short during the remain- focus on the amendments and that the proposer, der of the debate. Minister and other Members could each make contributions before the proposer replies to the Mr. Costello: The first point I wish to make is debate. that the Bill will be guillotined. The Supreme Court made the two landmark decisions to which Mr. Allen: Why then is the Bill being the Minister referred, in 2003 and 2005, but it was guillotined? not until June of last year that the Government decided to examine the matter and, as a result, Mr. Treacy: I want everyone to have an oppor- the legislation must be dealt with as a matter of tunity to debate the various amendments. urgency. If it is so urgent, why have we been obliged to wait four years for action to be taken? Mr. Allen: This debate is due to conclude at Why, in the dying days of this Government’s term 4.45 p.m. The Bill is being guillotined. of office, is a guillotine being applied in respect of a matter that is so important in the context of Mr. Treacy: We are not granting sweeping democracy and the European Union? powers to Ministers. I must point out to the Minister of State that all power is being transferred to the Minister. He Mr. Costello: The Government is doing so. stated that such power will only be used where Mr. Treacy: Ministers are elected and then necessary. However, section 4(2) states: appointed by the Parliament. They are guided by A statutory instrument made for a purpose the Attorney General of the day, the parliamen- referred to in subsection (1) may contain such tary counsel and other legal advisers who help to incidental, supplementary and consequential ensure that legislation, both primary and second- provisions as appear to the Minister of the ary, conforms with the Constitution and takes Government making the statutory instrument account of previous Supreme Court decisions and to be necessary for the purposes of the statu- our obligations as a sovereign domestic Govern- tory instrument (including provisions ment and as a member state of the European repealing, amending or applying, with or with- Union. out modification, other law, exclusive of this Act, the Act of 1972 and the provision of the An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister of State’s statute under which the statutory instrument two minutes have concluded. is made). Mr. Allen: The Minister of State forgot to men- The provision does not refer to such incidental, tion one important point, namely, that the supplementary and consequential provisions as Government is accountable to Da´il E´ ireann. appear to the Minister, the Government and his or her advisers to be necessary. It refers, Mr. Treacy: May I respond on the amendment? however, to “repealing, amending or applying, with or without modification, other law”. It is, Mr. Costello: We want to be given the same therefore, as all-encompassing an item of legis- time to contribute as the Minister of State. lation as I have ever seen introduced in the House. The Minister will be able to do what is Mr. Allen: If the Minister of State had not been outlined in section 4(2) without reference to the spoofing for two minutes he would have had procedures used to introduce and process legis- 1267 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1268

[Mr. Costello.] indicated that the Minister is elected by the lation in the House. If the Minister of State tries people, but that is not the case. The representa- to say that it does not do so, he should, as he tives in this House are elected, while Ministers quoted earlier in Latin, allow the legislation to are appointed. Members are elected to legislate speak for itself. but Ministers are not elected to legislate, they are I am opposed to the Bill because I believe we appointed to be part of the process of legislating. should not do our business in this fashion. I am The Bill before us will make the Minister the also opposed to it because it sends out a message legislator and will give him full authority to usurp to the Eurosceptics and everyone who has a bone the functions of the Da´il and the Upper House. to pick with the European Union that this House That is why we have raised these fundamental is transferring power to a Minister of the Govern- issues of democracy. ment to legislate on behalf of Europe for this Question put: “That the words proposed to be country and its citizens. The Minister of State deleted stand.”

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 74; Nı´l, 59.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Kelleher, Billy. Ahern, Michael. Kelly, Peter. Ahern, Noel. Killeen, Tony. Andrews, Barry. Kirk, Seamus. Ardagh, Seań. Kitt, Tom. Blaney, Niall. Lenihan, Brian. Brady, Johnny. Lenihan, Conor. Brady, Martin. McEllistrim, Thomas. Browne, John. McGuinness, John. Callanan, Joe. Martin, Michea´l. Carey, Pat. Moloney, John. Carty, John. Moynihan, Michael. Cassidy, Donie. Mulcahy, Michael. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Coughlan, Mary. O´ Fearghaı´l, Seań. Cowen, Brian. O’Connor, Charlie. Cregan, John. O’Dea, Willie. Cullen, Martin. O’Donnell, Liz. Curran, John. O’Donoghue, John. Davern, Noel. O’Flynn, Noel. Dempsey, Noel. O’Keeffe, Batt. Dempsey, Tony. O’Keeffe, Ned. Dennehy, John. O’Malley, Fiona. Devins, Jimmy. O’Malley, Tim. Ellis, John. Parlon, Tom. Fahey, Frank. Power, Peter. Finneran, Michael. Power, Seań. Fleming, Seań. Roche, Dick. Fox, Mildred. Sexton, Mae. Grealish, Noel. Smith, Brendan. Hanafin, Mary. Smith, Michael. Harney, Mary. Treacy, Noel. Haughey, Seań. Wallace, Dan. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Wallace, Mary. Hoctor, Maíre. Walsh, Joe. Jacob, Joe. Wilkinson, Ollie. Keaveney, Cecilia. Woods, Michael.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. Gilmore, Eamon. Boyle, Dan. Gormley, John. Broughan, Thomas P. Gregory, Tony. Bruton, Richard. Hayes, Tom. Connaughton, Paul. Healy, Seamus. Connolly, Paudge. Higgins, Joe. Costello, Joe. Higgins, Michael D. Cowley, Jerry. Howlin, Brendan. Crawford, Seymour. Kehoe, Paul. Crowe, Sea´n. Lynch, Kathleen. Cuffe, Ciara´n. McCormack, Pa´draic. Deasy, John. McEntee, Shane. Durkan, Bernard J. McGinley, Dinny. English, Damien. McGrath, Finian. Enright, Olwyn. McGrath, Paul. Ferris, Martin. McHugh, Paddy. 1269 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1270

Nı´l—continued

McManus, Liz. Quinn, Ruairı´. Mitchell, Olivia. Rabbitte, Pat. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Ring, Michael. Murphy, Catherine. Ryan, Eamon. Naughten, Denis. Ryan, Seań. Noonan, Michael. Sargent, Trevor. O´ Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. Sherlock, Joe. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Shortall, Ro´ isıń. O’Dowd, Fergus. Stagg, Emmet. O’Keeffe, Jim. Stanton, David. O’Shea, Brian. Timmins, Billy. O’Sullivan, Jan. Upton, Mary. Pattison, Seamus. Wall, Jack. Penrose, Willie.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Stagg and Kehoe.

Question declared carried. ministerial instrument. This will not just involve any old directive because the Minister is giving Amendment declared lost. himself the power to amend or appeal legislation from the European Union as he sees fit. He will An Ceann Comhairle: Amendments Nos. 5 to be able to do what he likes, while avoiding the 7, inclusive, are out of order. House. Clearly, anybody who wishes to take exception to the European Union will be able to Amendments Nos. 5 to 7, inclusive, not moved. cite this bad day’s work of undermining normal procedures in respect of legislation emanating An Ceann Comhairle: Amendment No. 8 in the from the European Union. name of Deputy Costello. Amendment No. 9 is The explanatory memorandum makes no related. Amendments Nos. 8 and 9 will be taken bones about the fact that the Bill amends the together. European Communities Act 1972 to provide for indictable offences. My amendment tries to rec- Mr. Costello: I move amendment No. 8: tify this to some extent by providing that where In page 4, between lines 31 and 32, to insert an indictable offence is created, it should cease to the following: have effect after three months unless confirmed by an Act of the Oireachtas which sets out in sub- ““(5) Regulations under this section which stantive form the terms of the offence. We are create an indictable offence shall cease to not great at transposing European directives into have effect after 3 months unless confirmed domestic law and are particularly far behind on by an Act of the Oireachtas which sets out in all important environmental directives. However, substantive form the terms of the offence.”.”. if we transpose a directive at short notice or in This amendment is being brought forward an emergency with the result that an indictable because the Minister is abrogating to himself offence is created, we would at least have the fall- enormous powers which no other Minister has back position of having to reconsider it in the ever had. He will allow himself and the Govern- context of substantive legislation after three ment the power to introduce laws by way of statu- months. The minimum the Minister should do is tory instruments, the penalty for breaches of give us a period of reflection where a transposed which will be up to three years in prison and a European directive carries a penalty of up to fine of \500,000. No other Minister in the history three years imprisonment or a fine of \500,000. of the State ever attempted such a dastardly The Oireachtas could deal with the issues action. He should be ashamed of himself for what involved in the normal fashion and then get on he is doing today. with its job.

Mr. S. Ryan: He wants to make a mark before Mr. Allen: This amendment concerns the the general election. supremacy of the Oireachtas and its right to make or retain laws without being bypassed on the Mr. Costello: He is certainly making a mark. whim of a Minister. The Minister was given a way This side of the House has a problem with the out on Committee Stage when reasonable pro- principle of guillotining the debate on a Bill with- posals were made by Opposition spokespersons. out providing an opportunity to discuss it fully. He had the opportunity to redeem himself and The normal procedures of the House which we retrieve the situation but he chose to ignore it. were elected to follow are being bypassed. This I will not try to misrepresent the Minister of sends a bad message to those Eurosceptics who State in the way he misrepresented us earlier. He wish to attack the European Union. They will be said on Committee Stage that severe pressure able to say the Union is totally unaccountable could be put on the Government to introduce a because legislation is being introduced by way of regulation from the Europe Union at short 1271 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1272

[Mr. Allen.] An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should con- notice. Lack of action could, for example, result fine himself to the amendment. in the country being penalised. For that reason, he was unable to accept one of our amendments. Aengus O´ Snodaigh: The amendment provides However, the record is pathetic with regard to that legislation or statutory instruments would transposition of EU regulations into domestic have to be endorsed within three months by the law. Replies to questions I asked last week indi- House or it would fall. A list of the relevant legis- cate that a wide range of Departments have failed lation has not been provided and this debacle has utterly to deal with many of the directives coming been presented to us in this legislation. Most from the European Union. I do not wish to be Bills, which refer to a range of legislation and unfair to Departments as I do not have the fig- statutory instruments, have Schedules attached ures to hand, but 50 to 60 directives pertaining to but that is not the case with this legislation. It is the Department of Transport have only partially that undemocratic. It will stand to us in the Oppo- been transposed. In the area of the environment sition that we tried to ensure the public was the Government has failed to transpose a range aware of what was being done. of regulations. Few Departments are without sin I do not say we would have opposed all the in this matter. Therefore, the excuse that fear of legislation passed previously or that we disagree the heavy hand of the European Union forces the with retrospectively endorsing it because a mis- Government to bypass normal democratic pro- take was made but that opportunity is not being cedures and principles is pathetic. provided to us because a number of Departments In the seven minutes that remain on Report have been unable to provide us with the neces- Stage I ask the Minister to State to treat us in a sary information to properly scrutinise the Bill. realistic and fair manner. He should either con- The Minister of State and others have stated how sider Deputy Costello’s amendment or entertain important it is for Members to scrutinise Euro- the proposals made on Committee Stage that pean legislation. We cannot even scrutinise legis- regulations should not take effect until after they lation introduced in the House, never mind the have been laid before the Da´il for a period of 21 European Union, because we have not been sup- days. Members would then have an opportunity plied with the relevant data. We do not know to raise the contents on the floor of the House. what will be the full effect of this legislation. That is how disgraceful and undemocratic is this legis- Aengus O´ Snodaigh: I support the amendment, lation. It is a further disgrace that the debate is although I would prefer if we never had to deal being guillotined. The public will understand our with this issue. The primary approach should be position that at the very least we should have had to confirm in the Oireachtas any legislation retro- a proper debate and sufficient time to discuss the spectively validated by the Bill. full impact of the legislation. Last week I put a series of questions to Mini- sters and received varying answers. My intention Mr. Treacy: One would think we were rein- was to receive a list of legislation and statutory venting the wheel, which is not the case. instruments in order to bring forward an amend- ´ ment which would set out in a Schedule the laws Aengus O Snodaigh: The Minister of State is and statutory instruments affected by the Bill. creating a new wheel. Deputy Costello’s amendment would ensure Mr. Allen: He is ruining the wheel. regulations would have to be endorsed within three months. The Ministers for Defence, Social Mr. Treacy: Governments have been doing this and Family Affairs, Education and Science, since 1922 through primary legislation and statu- Foreign Affairs, Community, Rural and Gael- tory instruments. The constitutional validity of tacht Affairs and Arts, Sport and Tourism replied our approach is set out clearly in this legislation that no such instruments pertained to their and it was accepted in the Supreme Court in the Departments. The latter two qualified this by Meagher v. the Minister for Agriculture case in stating their Departments have only existed in 1994, IR 329, regarding the equivalent provision their current form since 2002 and, therefore, in the 1972 Act. other legislation may have been enacted in the past. The remaining eight Ministers were unable Mr. Costello: That is not true. to supply a list of the laws and statutory instruments within the time available. That period is Aengus O´ Snodaigh: The Minister of State dictated by the Government, not me, and the should list the relevant legislation. Government has guillotined this legislation at every turn. That is a living disgrace and it is the Mr. Treacy: We are responding to two reason people are suspicious of the EU and this Supreme Court judgments and updating the House. This is the most undemocratic legislation legislation. that has been introduced since my election to the As I stated on Committee Stage, I cannot House. It is an insult to those who take the time accept Deputy Costello’s proposal that regu- to elect us on the basis that we pass lations which make provision for indictable legislation—— offences should cease to have effect after three 1273 European Communities Bill 2007 28 March 2007. Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage 1274 months unless confirmed by an Act of the Aengus O´ Snodaigh: The debate is over. The Oireachtas. This arrangement would be com- time is up. pletely unworkable, as it would be a retrograde step, which would seriously and unnecessarily Mr. Costello: The Minister is blustering. delay the implementation of European Com- munity law in this State. It would leave us open An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Minister of to the damaging accusation of failing to live up to State to conclude. our EU obligations. Aengus O´ Snodaigh: We adhered to the Aengus O´ Snodaigh: What about the Govern- guillotine. ment’s Irish obligations? An Ceann Comhairle: If the Deputy had his An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Minister of way, the guillotine would have applied a long State to continue. time ago. He has prevented the Minister from making his contribution. Mr. Treacy: That status of regulations made in good faith by Ministers to give effect to European Mr. Treacy: The amendment is inspired by the Community law would constantly be in doubt. original sunset clause in section 4 of the 1972 Act. Failure to pass the required Act of the Oireachtas That clause has proved to be completely unwork- within the three-month period would cause sig- able, as I stated on Second and Committee nificant uncertainty for both the Government and Stages. The wisdom of Parliament subsequent to the citizens and that would not be fair. We cannot that was that it was deleted by the Oireachtas create a scenario where there is doubt about it. shortly after the Act came into force. The original Deputy Allen referred to the Government’s fail- section 4 arrangement was less practical than ure to implement European directives but we Deputy Costello’s complex suggestion. It envis- have a very good record. We have been very measured and careful in certain areas where the aged a sunset clause of six months and gave the pressures are very complex and to ensure the Oireachtas more time to assess and approve sec- legislation is refined, a great deal of attention and ondary legislation. We should not return to a time is devoted to it. totally unworkable proposal that was discarded According to the Internal Market for the first more than three decades ago. I regret I cannot quarter of 2007, we are the third best in the accept the amendment. Union. An Ceann Comhairle: As it is 4.45 p.m. I am Mr. Costello: We are not playing soccer. required to put the following question in accordance with an order of the Da´il of this day: “That Mr. Allen: Were we relegated last year? Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed”. Mr. Treacy: Our transposition rate is 2.7% and still reducing. Question put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 74; Nı´l, 59.

Ta´

Ahern, Dermot. Fox, Mildred. Ahern, Michael. Gallagher, Pat The Cope. Ahern, Noel. Glennon, Jim. Andrews, Barry. Grealish, Noel. Ardagh, Seań. Hanafin, Mary. Blaney, Niall. Harney, Mary. Brady, Johnny. Haughey, Seań. Brady, Martin. Healy-Rae, Jackie. Callanan, Joe. Hoctor, Maíre. Callely, Ivor. Jacob, Joe. Carey, Pat. Keaveney, Cecilia. Carty, John. Kelleher, Billy. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. Kelly, Peter. Coughlan, Mary. Killeen, Tony. Cowen, Brian. Kirk, Seamus. Cregan, John. Kitt, Tom. Curran, John. Lenihan, Brian. Davern, Noel. Lenihan, Conor. Dempsey, Tony. McEllistrim, Thomas. Dennehy, John. McGuinness, John. Devins, Jimmy. Martin, Michea´l. Ellis, John. Moloney, John. Fahey, Frank. Moynihan, Michael. Finneran, Michael. Mulcahy, Michael. Fleming, Seań. Nolan, M. J. 1275 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1276

Ta´—continued

O´ Cuı´v, E´ amon. Power, Peter. O´ Fearghaı´l, Sea´n. Power, Sea´n. O’Connor, Charlie. Roche, Dick. O’Dea, Willie. Sexton, Mae. O’Donnell, Liz. Smith, Brendan. O’Donoghue, John. Smith, Michael. O’Flynn, Noel. Treacy, Noel. O’Keeffe, Batt. Wallace, Dan. O’Keeffe, Ned. Wallace, Mary. O’Malley, Fiona. Walsh, Joe. O’Malley, Tim. Wilkinson, Ollie. Parlon, Tom. Woods, Michael.

Nı´l

Allen, Bernard. McGrath, Finian. Boyle, Dan. McGrath, Paul. Broughan, Thomas P. McHugh, Paddy. Bruton, Richard. McManus, Liz. Connaughton, Paul. Mitchell, Olivia. Connolly, Paudge. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Costello, Joe. Murphy, Catherine. Cowley, Jerry. Naughten, Denis. Crawford, Seymour. Neville, Dan. Crowe, Seań. O´ Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. Cuffe, Ciarań. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Deasy, John. O’Dowd, Fergus. Deenihan, Jimmy. O’Keeffe, Jim. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Shea, Brian. English, Damien. O’Sullivan, Jan. Enright, Olwyn. Pattison, Seamus. Ferris, Martin. Penrose, Willie. Gilmore, Eamon. Quinn, Ruairı´. Gormley, John. Rabbitte, Pat. Gregory, Tony. Ryan, Eamon. Hayes, Tom. Sargent, Trevor. Healy, Seamus. Sherlock, Joe. Higgins, Joe. Shortall, Ro´ isıń. Higgins, Michael D. Stagg, Emmet. Hogan, Phil. Stanton, David. Howlin, Brendan. Timmins, Billy. Lynch, Kathleen. Twomey, Liam. McCormack, Pa´draic. Upton, Mary. McEntee, Shane. Wall, Jack. McGinley, Dinny.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Nı´l, Deputies Neville and Stagg.

Question declared carried. citation of the Health Acts will include the new provision in section 57(9). Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: Report and The new sections on protected disclosure Final Stages. inserted in the Health Act 2004 include a reference to section 45 of the Medical Practitioners Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Act 1978 which deals with an application for an I move amendment No. 1: inquiry on fitness to practice. As the Medical In page 9, between lines 26 and 27, to insert Practitioners Act 1978 is to be repealed by this the following: Bill, it is technically necessary to make provision for the new replacement provisions under section “(2) The collective citation “the Health 57 of the Bill under which a complaint may be Acts 1947 to 2007” shall include section made to be referenced in the Health Act as a pro- 57(9).”. tected disclosure. This is purely a technical matter Amendments Nos. 1 and 55 are being discussed to take account of the repeal of old provisions together. On Committee Stage, I indicated I and their replacement with the new provisions in would bring forward an amendment to the Medi- this Bill. cal Practitioners Bill to take account 5 o’clock of the new provisions on protected Amendment agreed to. disclosures which were included in the Health Bill. The first in this group of two Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 2: amendments is included as a consequence to my In page 11, line 35, after “a” to insert proposed amendment to section 57 to ensure a “significant”. 1277 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1278

This relates to a concern I had with regard to dif- amendment on it and the Minister indicated she ferentiating between a significant failure by a would table one. practitioner to meet the standards of competence and the rather blanket term used at present. I Ms Harney: I had this matter examined. The understood the Minister would deal with this. medical profession specialist training bodies would have some expertise but other bodies such Ms Harney: I examined this and took legal as the Irish Medicines Board would also have an advice. The strong legal advice received and the interest. As it evolves, HIQA could have a partial advice of the Medical Council was to stick with role in holding information on some of these the case law. In his decision in O’Laoire v. The matters. On reflection, I consider this is not a role Medical Council on 27 January 1995, Mr. Justice appropriate to the Medical Council and I dis- Keane stated: cussed it with one or two staff members of the Medical Council. The information required to conduct which could not properly be character- implement this amendment is too wide and varied ised as “infamous” or “disgraceful” and which and would not always be available to the council does not involve any degree of moral turpitude, on an ongoing basis. While I appreciate the spirit fraud or dishonesty may still constitute “profes- of the amendment I consider it is not practical to sional misconduct” if it is conduct connected assign this function to the Medical Council. with his profession in which the medical practitioner concerned has seriously fallen short, by Ms McManus: I regret this as an opportunity omission or commission, of the standards of lost. One of the difficulties experienced was that conduct expected amongst medical prac- the Medical Council is seen as a distant august titioners. body which perpetuates the idea that doctors are Mr. Justice Keane also stated only conduct somehow superhuman and not like the rest of us. which seriously falls short of the accepted stan- I though the Medical Council reaching out to the dards of the profession could justify a finding by public would have been a good part of its brief. the professional colleagues of a doctor of professional misconduct on his part. This is the case Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. law and I am strongly advised by the Attorney An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendments General’s office and the Medical Council that the Nos. 5 and 6 are alternatives and will be dis- Bill is appropriate and only deals with what the cussed together. judge stated seriously falls short of accepted standards. Deputy McManus made the same point, Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: I move amendment that minor issues would not involve a doctor No. 5: being struck off. In page 17, line 44, after “order” to insert Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. the following: “following consultation and agreement by Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 3: the Council”. In page 16, line 11, to delete “where I commend this amendment to the Minister. I was appropriate,”. unable to contribute to Second Stage due to a I propose this amendment to take account of the personal health setback. I wish to take this oppor- matter raised by Deputy Gormley on Committee tunity to emphasise what was stated by my col- Stage. Following consultation with Parliamentary league, Deputy Crowe, who spoke on Second Counsel, the words “where appropriate” may be Stage on my behalf. This Bill is necessary and its removed. I hope this satisfies the Deputy. priority must be to ensure the best health care provision for patients through proper account- Mr. Gormley: I thank the Minister. ability and the highest standards of training for health professionals. Amendment agreed to. The core of the Bill and the subject of these amendments is the reform of the Medical Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 4: Council. There has been much controversy on this matter and the representative bodies, both In page 16, line 43, after “including” to insert the IMO and the IHCA, were extremely pro- the following: active. The last meeting I had on the Thursday “the advances, limitations and risks of cur- night was a first-time experience with the IHCA. rent medical knowledge and practice”. Little did I realise that within hours I would be dependent on their colleagues’ professional I raised this matter on Committee Stage on the services. basis the Medical Council has a public education The arguments around this Bill centre on role which should be specified in the legislation. whether there should be a lay or medical majority While I appreciate the Minister made the point on the council. I must state having given the argu- that this was sweeping, I expected a Government ments serious consideration, I do not have a diffi- 1279 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1280

´ [CaoimhghıńOCaolaín.] practitioners” and “the implementation of any culty with a lay majority. Whatever the case may directive or regulation of the European Union be, the real question is who will represent the concerning the practice of medicine, medical interests of patients. That is the most important practitioners who practise medicine and the thing to address. In our assessment of the matter recognition of qualifications of medical prac- we must ask whether the new Medical Council titioners exercising their right to freedom of will serve the patient better. That is the question movement within the European Union”. Clearly, in the minds of most people, certainly all those any functions assigned to the council relate to interested in the passage of this legislation. these matters. What is being attempted in amendment No. 5 There is also a provision under section 8(2), is to strike a balance between self-regulation and which states: “Every order made under this public accountability. Taking on board that the section shall be laid before each House of the immediate backdrop to the Bill is the dreadful Oireachtas as soon as may be after it is made and, experience of the women in the north east, as if a resolution annulling the order is passed by exposed through the Neary case, the shameful either such House within the next 21 days on treatment of the women victims of that scandal, which the House has sat after that order is laid one must say that the Neary case was a classic before it, the order shall be annulled accordingly, example of self-regulation failing miserably and but without prejudice to the validity of anything compounding the hurt and pain, as we saw in the previously done under it.” address of the cases concerned by Mr. Neary’s I should have stated at the outset that I am three colleagues. Following that there can be no delighted to see the Deputy back. I privately doubt in anyone’s mind that change was abso- wished him well. He seems to have got back to lutely essential. good health very quickly and I am delighted that Legitimate concerns have been raised. I have is the case. listened carefully to the arguments of the IHCA representatives and I respect the positions articu- CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: I thank the Minister lated. They believe the Bill may in some respects for her kind remarks, which she already conveyed go too far in one direction and confer too many to me personally. I am very grateful for that. powers on the Minister. My amendments and This is an important measure. There is a those of others on this Stage of the Bill’s passage serious chasm between the position argued for by attempt to address those concerns. the representative interests, who have lobbied Amendment No. 5 provides for consultation extensively, and what the Bill now proposes to with, which is very important, and agreement of do. While I have indicated, as my colleague did the new council before the Minister confers on Second Stage, that I have no difficulty with further functions or responsibilities on the council the lay majority issue, I am, nevertheless, mindful beyond those extensive powers and responsibil- of the arguments articulated very well to me some ities already outlined in the Bill. That is a reason- weeks back. There is good cause and justification able proposal which gives recognition to the to take on board this measure, which ultimately integrity of the council. It makes very clear that leaves a responsibility on the council to deter- the council is an integral component part of any mine the widening of its functions and remit. We consideration of future vesting of new should accede to that and accommodate it in the responsibilities or remits. Before any proposal to passage of this Bill. We should try to create a widen same, the Minister must consult and secure scenario where all interests will view the future the agreement of the council. role of the council and the whole area of govern- I commend the amendment to the Minister and ance, accountability and transparency of medical hope she will recognise and appreciate the good practice at all levels so that there is a broad wel- sense in this and the good practice it would rep- come and a good heart — a pun I did not intend resent. I expect that the Minister and the House — towards an effective and efficient working collectively will receive a good-hearted response relationship into the future. from the varying interests that this Bill seeks to I urge the Minister again to reconsider this address. I commend the proposition to the Mini- amendment. Amendment No. 6 in the name of ster. Consultation and agreement of the council Deputy McManus seeks to achieve the same should be central to this area, specifically the result. It is a very important issue. I do not wish widening of powers and responsibilities of the to see a gulf of distrust or distress arising out of council in the future. the passage of this Bill, which I again describe as very necessary. Ms McManus: I will withdraw my amendment. I will reserve the position I will take on this to take into account the decisions arrived at in the Ms Harney: This seeks to simply reinstate the course of this Report Stage. I urge the Minister existing power under section 62 of the 1978 Act. to reconsider and I commend the proposition In case there is confusion, the purpose here is to once again. assign additional functions connected with “registered medical practitioners, their education and Ms Harney: I have made my response. This is training and the practice of medicine by medical simply repeating in this legislation a provision 1281 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1282 that exists in the 1978 Act, which nobody would doctors and regulate in the public interest. The suggest has been abused. It concerns the func- representative bodies have issues regarding the tions of the authority around medical education legislation and, on foot of some of the represen- or the practice of medicine or EU directives. It is tations made, we made changes after the draft not reasonable to have to consult a body to assign heads were published. However, many doctors, functions. If a body were in a position to indicate particularly those who are younger, are happy it would not take the functions, another body with the legislation and will have confidence in it. would have to be established or the first body Referring to a comment made by Deputy O´ may have to be dissolved. This is normal practice Caolaín, the new council will probably not be in much legislation and I do not believe anybody appointed until July following the regulations has ever been accused of abusing it. As I have being made and the elections taking place, but it stated, it can be annulled by the Oireachtas. In would be my intention as the appointing Minister effect, it must be subject to the approval of the to appoint people who represent patients’ Oireachtas. interests in so far as they can be identified. There are a number of organisations. There are also Amendment put and declared lost. extraordinary, talented and experienced people, notwithstanding the negative experiences in some Amendment No. 6 not moved. cases, who have made invaluable contributions to public policy in a number of areas and who would Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 7: make similar contributions to the functioning of the council. The directions only relate to public In page 18, to delete lines 24 to 32. policy issues, not operational or ethical matters. While I welcome that the issue of professional conduct and ethics is excluded from the “general Ms McManus: Section 9(2) could create a con- policy directions” in the section, there is a contra- flict in that nothing “in directions given under diction. On the one hand, the Minister could give subsection (1) is to be construed to prevent the general direction on policy to the medical council, Council from, or to limit the Council in, per- but the council need not abide by the direction forming its functions”. on the other. If it did not believe the direction to On patient representatives, I remind the Mini- be in accordance with its functions, it could ster that when Professor Niamh Brennan exam- decide to fulfil its functions or not to limit its per- ined the issue of reform of the health service and formance in the way it perceives it has been sought people to represent the public interest, directed. This contradiction would create a thereby the patients, she could not find anyone to problem. fit the bill as well as public representatives. No I accept we are moving away from the old idea one else is democratically elected. of pure self-regulation and a closed professional This is the difficulty of the idea of patient rep- system into a new era, which is for the good, but resentatives. There are patient organisations and we must also acknowledge the danger of pro- able people speaking on behalf of patients, but fessionals abdicating their roles if they feel alien- there is a danger of self-appointed people carving ated by the Bill’s provisions and the establish- out a role they may fill well, badly or inap- ment of the new council. It is right that doctors propriately and to whom the checks and balances must pay for the council via registration fees, but placed on public representatives do not apply. I we should not remove the sense of ownership as challenge the idea of patient representatives we democratise the system. For these reasons I because it is a will o’ the wisp. It is not that people tabled the amendment. could not be found to speak on behalf of patients, but there are no patient representatives to whom Ms Harney: There is a misunderstanding. one could point as having been chosen for that Deputy O´ Caolaín’s amendment sought to insert role. This is a genuine difficulty to which I do not the clause “following consultation and agreement have a solution, but I would not use the term. by the Council”, that is, a Minister would only give a direction or extend the council’s functions Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. if it was consulted. It would be inappropriate to allow a council to decide against taking more Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 8: functions. It is not the case that the council can In page 19, lines 4 and 5, to delete “and in ignore the directions, as it is obliged to follow accordance with the request”. them. They relate to public policy on education, EU directives and so on rather than operational, This amendment relates to control, as the Bill fitness to practise or ethical issues. over-eggs the pudding. Throughout the Bill, the I agree with Deputy McManus in that it is ministerial control of the council is not healthy or important that the profession has confidence in necessary. The Minister can make an order or a the council. Regulatory bodies are to regulate in request and the council can make rules for the the public’s interest, but it would be foolish not purpose of better operation “in accordance with to regulate with the profession’s confidence in the the request”. It sounds as if belts and braces must regulatory function. The Bill aims to support be used because the people in question are juven- 1283 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1284

[Ms McManus.] polled this country’s 9,000 doctors to ascertain ile delinquents rather than sensible adults with whether they have any idea of what we are talk- considerable expertise. It is unnecessary wording ing about in this instance, one would find that and I ask the Minister to delete it. most of them know little about it. Most of this Bill is quite technical. The sections Ms Harney: Based on legal advice, it is neces- of the Bill providing for ministerial direction will sary to include the wording to clarify that the change the Medical Council quite fundamentally. request must be complied with. I am not sure that it should be called the Medical Council any more. Its role is being broadened so Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. that it will not just involve keeping doctors in check. The council will also be charged with An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendments examining the role of medicine throughout the Nos. 9 and 13 are related and will be discussed health service, for example. Last week, we con- together. sidered legislation on the Health Information and Quality Authority, which is being established CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: I move amendment because the HSE currently both purchases and No. 9: provides nursing home services. It also sets stan- In page 22, lines 26 and 27, to delete all dards in the nursing home sector and checks that words from and including “in” in line 26 down those standards are being upheld. Nothing or to and including “Minister” in line 27. very little was done over many years — certainly, patients were not protected. When the problems As with amendment No. 5, this amendment at Leas Cross, for example, hit the headlines, attempts to moderate the somewhat heavy- there was a slow movement to protect nursing handed approach implicit in the original wording home patients. I recently read an article which of the Bill, namely, “in a form and manner in mentioned that Professor Des O’Neill’s initial accordance with any directions issued by the report on Leas Cross was half the size of the Minister”. Deputy McManus has accurately report that was eventually published by the HSE. described the tenor of the Bill and this wording Various officials in the HSE had to include var- is another indication of a dictatorial approach on ious appendices to make clear they did not really the part of the Minister and the Department. do anything wrong, they should not be blamed, While I have no problem with that approach, it is they did everything they could and somebody else unnecessary, as there is a clear obligation on the was at fault. It was the patients who ultimately council to do all that is provided for in section 13. suffered. The words I am seeking to delete have the further negative connotation of suggesting the This House decided last week to take the HSE strategy will be devised by the Minister or his or out of the nursing home sector. We agreed to her office. Implicit in what is stated is a dictation establish an independent organisation, the Health that the strategy will be determined in the Mini- Information and Quality Authority, to set stan- ster’s office, not by the council. I really do not dards. We also gave the Social Services Inspector- think there can be any worthwhile outcome from ate the responsibility for protecting patients in the inclusion of those words in section 13, which the nursing home sector. The Minister has also requires the council to prepare and submit a introduced the Medical Practitioners Bill 2007, statement of strategy. As the Minister’s hopes under which HSE officials will be put on the and aspirations are already catered for in section board of the Medical Council. She has decided 13, it would not be weakened by the removal of to subsume the Postgraduate Medical and Dental these unnecessary words. If we delete these Board, which is responsible for specialist training words, this section will better reflect our of doctors and dentists and postgraduate approach and intent, in terms of the future work- research, into the HSE so that it is no longer an ing relationship in this regard. Therefore, I com- independent organisation. It appears that the mend this amendment to the Minister. Medical Council will have a role in the training and specialisation of doctors, thereby affecting Dr. Twomey: While we are revisiting some old the way in which they can register as specialists. ground with these amendments, it is no harm to It seems that this measure is being taken on foot emphasise the point we wish to make once more. of proposals from the HSE. I understand that the The Minister said she has met some young HSE will have a bearing on what will happen with doctors who welcome this legislation. I do not regard to the competence assurance of doctors. really believe that is true, although it does not The Minister has proposed that it will depend on matter very much. My instinct tells me that most resources being made available to the HSE. The doctors do not care about the legislation or are Minister has taken from the HSE the power to not aware of it. Like the rest of the public, simultaneously decide on standards and govern doctors tend to pay little heed to what happens what happens within a certain part of the health in the Daíl until the implications of legislation service — the nursing homes sector. However, become apparent. Very little has been said about she has also introduced a Bill regarding medicine the debates we have had on this legislation. If one to put the HSE in charge of doctors, more or less. 1285 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1286

I was a little surprised by the manner in which on State bodies. That is what happens — it is a the Minister spoke about the HSE this morning. fact of life. I refer to her comment that co-location is an issue I do not think what we are doing has occurred for the HSE and has nothing to do with her. I to the Minister or to the majority of people. The find it fascinating that the HSE is now like “Big general public is not engaged in this debate at all, Brother”, or like a computer that is more or less but it will be interested in it in years to come running itself. As a result of this legislation, the when a report is published on what went wrong HSE is now in charge of the health services. Some in the case of some serious disaster. I am not sure people do not give a hoot about self-regulation we have protected patients in the right way. I and lay majorities. Most doctors are not engaging have asked the Minister previously to point out in this debate at all. They seldom get engaged in where the huge problems of which she has been debates of this nature, other than when problems made aware arise within the Medical Council, as like those encountered at Leas Cross emerge. it currently exists, or in the context of the Medical When something goes seriously wrong in the Practitioners Act 1978. It is important that some health services — Leas Cross was not the only sort of critique be done on the effect on the Medi- example of such a difficulty — we should stand cal Council of the legislation before the House. I back and question how it was allowed to happen. do not think the sort of ministerial authority that In this day and age, how in God’s name did those is being copper-fastened by this Bill was envis- who were responsible for the inspection of nurs- aged by anybody. It was envisaged that we would ing homes, including administrators who were have proper systems of registration and com- being very well paid to protect elderly patients, petence assurance of doctors. It was intended to not only fail to notice what was going on in such leave training to the training bodies. The Medical homes but also seem to allow it to happen with- Council was supposed to have a specific role in out doing anything about it? maintaining standards and ensuring that bad In 20 years’ time, people will probably ask how doctors are rooted out of the system. The Mini- in God’s name we allowed legislation of this nat- ster has taken it a step too far. ure, which seems to give more powers to the We might rue the day that we brought this Minister, to be passed in 2007. The Minister legislation through the House. The provisions knows that such powers can easily be abused. contradict what the Minister is doing in other Policy directions can easily be issued to quieten legislation, including the legislation we voted on things down. The Minister has given herself the last week. None of it is based on patient safety. ultimate sanction of being able to threaten pri- Those who drafted the Bill in respect of HIQA vately or publicly to remove some or all of the had a different mind set to those who drafted the members of the Medical Council if they do not Medical Practitioners Bill. I do not know what play ball. She has given incredible power to the will happen with the Pharmacy Bill and whether HSE, which will be represented on the board of further amendments will be tabled before I read the Medical Council, and some other organis- it tonight. That changed dramatically between ations that are linked to the Government, rather Tuesday and Thursday. This is confused thinking. than to the protection of patients. The HSE is not I am confused by it and, after 20 years in the about protecting patients. Many of the organis- health service, I am interested in this area. ations and individuals which will be represented on the new Medical Council, such as the Royal An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy Irish Academy, the Minister for Education and should confine himself to the amendment. Science, the Health Information and Quality Authority and the Independent Hospital Associ- Dr. Twomey: This is relevant to the amend- ation of Ireland, have nothing to do with patient ment in respect of ministerial control. Serious safety. They are part of the mechanism of concerns have been expressed by people who pay government. attention to these matters. What is the Minister’s The HSE and its Government allies will control intention with regard to the legislation passed in things quite significantly. That is why I want to recent days? take the provision relating to ministerial responsibility out of the Bill. I have said that if I were the Ms Harney: I was in the company of four Minister for Health and Children, I would hate to doctors and a retired doctor at the weekend. I have so much control over the Medical Council asked their opinions of lay majorities and was sur- directly, which is what the ministerial responsi- prised that, in general, they thought it a good idea bility provisions give the Minister, or indirectly, in moving into a different era. I consult people I by means of the authority of the HSE and some know and other doctors do not have a problem of the other organisations which will now be part with this. of the Medical Council. The ministerial appointment provisions could be bad for patient safety. I Ms McManus: Were they looking for some- do not think it is a good idea to appoint to boards thing from the Minister? four or five people who usually have some connection with the Government. The Taoiseach has Ms Harney: It was a social occasion. They were said that he puts his friends, rather than donors, not looking for anything. 1287 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1288

Dr. Twomey: Did they understand the impli- CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: I wish to raise a further cations of this Bill or was the discussion on lay point with the Minister, who did not respond to majorities? any of the points I made. I refer to section 13, requiring the council to match the expectation of Ms Harney: It was a social occasion in a private the Minister and the Department in respect of the home and the only aspect we discussed was the statement of strategy. These words are unnecess- lay majority. We did not discuss the minutiae of ary and equate to the strategy being drafted in this Bill. Most people rely on their representative the Minister’s office. It may not happen but it bodies or read the media and take an interest might as well. This is implicit in the manner in only if it is relevant to them. Doctors are con- which this is presented. This further deepens the cerned that minor matters and vexatious com- discontent. It is within the Minister’s gift to plaints will not result in an appearance before fit- remove this provision from section 13 and ness to practice inquiries and their embark on a minor but important healing professionalism and reputation queried in an process. unfair fashion. The Prospectus and Brennan reports drew attention to the need for greater Ms Harney: It is in line with what is required accountability by public bodies in the health sec- of other public bodies. The Minister of the day may receive a strategy statement within six tor. In line with initiatives by the Department of months of taking office. The statement must deal Finance with regard to public bodies in general, with the performance of the functions of the regu- the Department of Health and Children issued a latory body, in this case, the Medical Council. framework of governance document that is in line The statement may contain information on the with this Bill. It outlines the form the strategy number of inquiries. The norm will be for such statement should take rather than the content. It inquiries to be held in public and there will be should conform with the form that applies to all more information available. It is in the public regulatory and statutory bodies under the aegis interest to know how many complaints were of the Department of Health and Children. received, how many were filtered by the prelimi- Competence assurance is a fundamental part of nary hearings committee, how many were health this Bill but we must wait a while before it is in issues and how many went to mediation. These place. Power in this regard is important for pati- are required in a strategy statement. Members of ent safety. A range of mechanisms are open to the Houses are constantly asking me such ques- the Medical Council, including the preliminary tions. At present we receive broad information hearings committee, the health committee and from the Medical Council. This is a good practice the mediation process. Fitness to practice applies and is nothing more than exists in other legis- to serious cases and immunity for doctors who lation. The Prospectus and Brennan reports drew report others is a matter that concerns doctors. attention to the need for greater clarity and better We did not agree with everything proposed dur- information. For accountability and effectiveness ing our widespread consultation but much of this it is a good for organisations to have strategy Bill is informed by representations and consul- statements. Departments publish them and they tation, before and after the heads of the Bill are the subject of public debate. This focusses the were published. minds of those who operate in such organisations, The only duty of a member of the Medical such as Ministers and public officials. Council is to the council. The member does not ´ sit in a representative capacity to report to CaoimhghıńOCaolaín: There is no objection to a statement of strategy. That was not the ker- another. It is important to have a broader per- nel of my argument. spective on the council and on bodies generally. This can inform the work of a regulatory body. Amendment put and declared lost. I am accused of having too much control. When the Accounting Officer position was given An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendments to the HSE I was accused of giving away too Nos. 10 to 12, inclusive, are related and may be much power. It seems I cannot win. Policy is discussed together. decided by the Minister and the Government and its implementation is a matter for the HSE. It is Dr. Twomey: I move amendment No. 10: not my role to receive tenders for co-location, sign contracts or decide on weightings. I do not In page 22, to delete lines 36 to 39. have the competence to do so, nor would it be This refers to the same issue of ministerial appropriate. That is the role of the HSE, availing control. of expertise to inform it, including outside legal When we talked this morning, it was clear that expertise. An Bord Altranais, which is responsible for nurs- The amendment is in line with what is required ing and midwifery training, will remain indepen- of all public bodies under the aegis of the Depart- dent, as will the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care ment. It is good practice in respect of account- Council, which looks after the training of param- ability and effectiveness. edics and ambulance staff. Even some of the 1289 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1290 bodies the Minister is talking about such as An Ms Harney: It is an independent body as Bord Altranais, the Royal Irish Academy, the regards operational, ethical issues and so on. Health Information Quality Authority and the However, as a body it also has an important role Independent Hospitals Association of Ireland, all as regards some public policy issues around edu- have boards of management with limited powers cational training, workforce planning perhaps, as well. The Minister is hell-bent on radically and the implementation of EU directives. As changing the Medical Council and not just as regards the training issues Deputy Twomey men- regards self-regulation and making it a lay tioned, we are implementing the Buttimer report. majority. She is making quite radical changes as The HSE is responsible for logistics and co-ordi- well as regards training. nation, but the Medical Council is the quality There is a need for many of the changes, but authority in so far as education and training are like the competence assurance issue, the Minister concerned, and that is an important distinction. is still unsure as to how this will work, apart from Earlier we mentioned the role of HIQA and that the fact she admitted on Committee Stage that it of the HSE, the service provider on the one hand, could take up to five years to achieve. That and the quality or standards authority on the means, in order to root out individuals who must other. Obviously the training bodies have an be watched as regards their competence, this will enormous role to play, but it is a matter for the take quite some time. There should be faster Medical Council to decide on the appropriateness ways of doing that. Even as regards education of training and provide for the registration of and training, words such as co-operation, collab- doctors, both general practitioners and specialists. oration and co-ordination tend to proliferate. The Deputy asked me what was wrong with the Regardless of what changes are being proposed, legislation. Clearly we have learned a good deal care must be taken, especially when training and much has changed in the intervening 30 bodies for doctors and dentists are being sub- years. Medical regulation all over the world is sumed into the HSE in the manner the Minister changing as we have to in light of the circum- is doing, The HSE has not covered itself in glory stances in which we find ourselves. This legis- in its two years in existence. There is a need for lation has been sought by the Medical Council for far greater clarity and it is missing in this quite some time. Most of its provisions refer to legislation. requests made or the informed views of the Medi- As regards these amendments, since they were cal Council, from its experience, particularly as not accepted on Committee Stage, I shall with- regards issues to do with training, education and draw them. competence assurance. Then there is the capacity of the council to be able to recruit people onto Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. committees. These types of initiatives have come about in response to suggestions made by the Amendments Nos. 11 to 13, inclusive, not council because of the major difficulties, chal- moved. lenges and workloads of its individual members, most of whom are very busy people. To try to An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendments allocate the time required under the current Nos. 14 and 15 form a composite proposal. approach where one has to be a member of the Amendments Nos. 16 to 18, inclusive, are related. council to serve on various committees is very Amendments Nos. 14 to 18, inclusive will be dis- onerous. This causes difficulties and pressure cussed together. points for the council. Much of what we are doing is to respond to the views of the council. Dr. Twomey: I move amendment No. 14: In page 24, line 12, after “Council,” to insert Dr. Twomey: The Medical Council would have “and”. agreed with many aspects of the competence I want to press, in particular in amendment No. assurance proposals, as regards specialist and 16, that the council shall, in preparing a business general registration, because so much of this is plan, “have regard to the policies and objectives important. Did it also agree there should be of the Minister and the Government as they strong ministerial control over policy and direc- relate to the functions of the Council”. If we are tion and see this as a positive issue, or did it have getting rid of self-regulation and introducing a lay concerns as regards the removal of the council’s majority we should at least give the council some independence to such a significant degree? I am independence, one way or another. Removing its not talking about the lay majority stuff, but independence in the manner the Minister has rather about—— done has neutered the Medical Council to a significant degree. The Medical Council has a role Ms Harney: To be fair to the council, I do not to play. It is akin to the question I have previously believe it advocated a lay majority. I met the asked about what was so wrong with the 1978 Medical Council after the heads of the Bill were legislation and the Medical Council as it is consti- published. We took on board many of its sugges- tuted that such a heavy-handed approach as tions. I met it after the Bill was published, and regards ministerial responsibility is required. Why again we made some changes based in particular cannot it remain independent? on what I have said earlier, about case law being 1291 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1292

[Ms Harney.] Council. A doctor felt a complaint against him or the appropriate test for the fitness to practise her was being examined by his or her peers. This issue. We also agreed on some other areas. For affinity could disappear if the council is appointed example, we have removed in so far as it is practi- solely by the Minister. One way of maintaining cable, difficulties in terms of the HSE having to its independence is having a proportion of the provide for competence assurance. The HSE will council elected by the medical profession, while have to do that and resources will not be an issue. maintaining the lay majority appointed by the Subject to correction, I do not believe the Minister. Such a structure would be closer to a Medical Council takes the view that there is a partnership rather than a structure being imposed good deal of ministerial control and direction on doctors. here, although perhaps some of its 6 o’clock members might. Assigning new func- CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Amendment No. 20 in tions was in the existing Act. We did my name is pertinent to this evening’s private not have the type of corporate governance struc- Members’ business. Many times, my Sinn Feín tures and framework for public bodies in place in colleagues and I have raised the unacceptability 1978. Much has changed over the years and a of the manner in which people are appointed to greater level of accountability.has come about in State bodies. This Bill is different in that the the intervening period. It was not an era of members of the Medical Council will be nomi- strategy statements and business plans. Public nated by specified bodies. Five lay people will be bodies did not operate to that type of agenda appointed by the Minister. As we have high- almost 30 years ago, so things have changed a lighted however, there is no way for any citizen good deal. to access these positions or offer their services or expertise to such bodies. There is no provision for Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. this in the Bill or any other legislation presented to the House in the past five or more years. There Amendments Nos. 15 to 18, inclusive, not is no openness in the process which requires moved. address. In deference to my colleagues in the Green Party, their private Members’ Bill will seek An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Amendments to address this serious deficiency. I will support Nos. 19 to 21, inclusive, are technical alternatives their Bill when it is voted on later tonight. and amendment No. 26 is related. Amendments As it is expected that the Government will not Nos. 19 to 21, inclusive, and No. 26 will be dis- accept the Green Party private Members’ Bill, I cussed together. ask the Minister to accept amendment No. 20. Itt will allow for an additional safeguard in the whole Dr. Twomey: I move amendment No. 19: process of the appointment of lay persons to the In page 25, lines 25 and 26, to delete all council. This will serve at least two purposes. It words from and including “the” where it firstly will temper the extensive powers, highlighted by occurs in line 25 down to and including “and” all Opposition Members, that the Minister is pro- in line 26 and substitute the following: viding for vis-a`-vis the role of the council. It will also add substance to the Oireachtas Joint Com- “a proportion of the members of the Council mittee on Health and Children and strengthen its shall be appointed by the Minister, a pro- scrutiny role. portion shall be appointed through election by the bodies regulated by the Medical Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk): I must mention Council, and the Council”. to the Deputy that this is Report Stage and there Is it possible that a proportion of the council are restrictions on time. could be elected by the medical profession and another proportion appointed by the Minister, CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: I am delighted to hear while still maintaining the lay majority? When the that. You are very welcome. Minister was sitting around the dinner table, dis- I urge the Minister to accept the amendment cussing the Medical Practitioners Bill with her and allow for the Oireachtas Joint — or Select — doctor friends—— Committee on Health and Children to have this further function. It would be a useful and wel- Ms Harney: I do not want to exaggerate that. I come development. The Minister may very well am sorry I mentioned it at all. It sounds like a find herself a member of the committee and wel- very boring night. come such an opportunity to participate.

Ms McManus: That depends on how much Ms McManus: I thought the Minister would wine was consumed. have conceded the point on nominating bodies. It is important that people feel engaged with the Dr. Twomey: I am sure the Minister’s doctor proposed council structure. It is easy for people friends could explain that doctors might feel dis- to walk away and not get involved in this type of connected from the Medical Council as envis- project. People are busier, work is getting tougher aged. Doctors had an affinity with the Medical and the days seem to be getting shorter. All these 1293 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1294 pressures are on people who give up their time Ms McManus: The amendments cover different to represent their profession. In terms of trust, issues. Deputy O´ Caolaín’s amendment has it should be possible to allow the profession to nothing to do with mine. nominate the persons it feels are best rather than I do not want to cause a problem but I under- have this oversight structure that pervades the stand a Member can move an amendment even it legislation. forms part of a group of amendments. In the past the Minister made the appointments but we should be able to trust these professional Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 19 was not bodies in making their choices. I am not certain defeated. At the discretion of the Chair appar- we can always trust Ministers. Deputy Twomey ently, that can be allowed. The important point referred to the Taoiseach’s approach to appoint- to bear in mind, as the original note indicated, is ments to State boards which hardly inspires that if the question on amendment No. 19 was confidence. agreed, amendments Nos. 20 and 21 could not be moved. Ms Harney: I gave an undertaking on Commit- tee Stage to examine this section. I wanted to Ms McManus: The question on that amend- make it clear there was no question of a Minister ment was not agreed. not accepting those elected. That is why I tabled amendment No. 26 which states the Minister may Acting Chairman: These amendments overlap, not refuse to appoint as a member of the Council address the same Part of the Bill and must be a person nominated by a professional body. discussed together, otherwise amendments Nos. When I was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and 20 and 21 would fall with the decision on amend- Employment, I was involved in nominating per- ment No. 19 and there would not be an oppor- sons to InterTrade Ireland. The Sinn Feín Party tunity to debate them. However, I am advised it directly nominated a person to the body who, the is possible, at the discretion of the Chair, to allow chairman informed me, made an excellent contri- those amendments to be moved. bution. I recently nominated a Fine Gael Party public representative to the Crisis Pregnancy CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: I move amendment Agency. I like to think I look out for good people No. 20: to nominate to appropriate bodies. That is the intention with this section. In page 25, line 26, after “Minister” to insert On Committee Stage, Deputies were con- the following: cerned that the specified bodies may elect per- “, following consultation and approval by the sons to the council which the Minister may refuse Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and to endorse. That is not the intention. Amendment Children”. No. 26 introduces clarity in this section to ensure the Minister shall not refuse nominations by It is almost like Ballinspittle; I feel something has those bodies which have powers to nominate to moved here. With reference to amendment No. the council. 20, the Minister did not comment on the proposal in the amendment regarding the possibility of the Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Chil- dren having a role in the approval and determi- Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 20 cannot nation of five lay people who would serve on the be moved. It has already been discussed with council. Is the Minister prepared to accede to this amendment No. 19. proposal in respect of that committee?

Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in: It cannot be moved? Ms Harney: No. If five people were to appear before a committee, it would be extremely con- Acting Chairman: No, it cannot be moved. troversial. I can give the Deputy an assurance Amendment No. 21, in the name of Deputy that if he wants to put forward suggestions to me, McManus, cannot be moved as it was already dis- I will be more than happy to consider them. I cussed with amendment No. 19. often sit in ministerial office talking to officials. If one considers the Health and Social Care Pro- Ms McManus: I would prefer to withdraw it. I fessionals Council, which met for the first time believe one could still propose an amendment on Monday, one would note that its members are even if it is grouped. extremely competent and highly trained individuals. There was widespread consultation on the Acting Chairman: I was not in the Chair when establishment of that council. The Deputy made we commenced the debate on amendment No. 19. a valid point in highlighting that there may be The Leas-Cheann Comhairle said that amend- excellent people in the country who do not know ments No. 19 to 21, inclusive, are technical alter- how to go about being nominated. I would be natives to the same part of the Bill and amend- delighted to facilitate a role for people making ment No. 26 was related. In effect we took the suggestions and they would be taken very three amendments in that context. seriously. 1295 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1296

Acting Chairman: How stands the (e) one registered medical practitioner, amendment? not being a consultant, practising medicine in a hospital, and Dr. Twomey: I am pressing it. (f) one registered medical practitioner not falling within any of paragraphs (a) to Amendment put and declared lost. (e).”. Amendment No. 21 not moved. Amendment agreed to. Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 23 is related to amendment No. 22 and therefore Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 26: amendments Nos. 22 and 23 may be discussed In page 27, to delete lines 36 to 45 and in together. page 28, to delete lines 1 to 5 and substitute the following: Ms McManus: Those amendments were sub- “(9) Without prejudice to the generality of mitted in error. the other provisions of this Act relating to the membership of the Council— Amendments Nos. 22 and 23 not moved. (a) the Minister may not refuse to Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 25, 27 appoint as a member of the Council a per- and 28, inclusive, are related to amendment No. son nominated under subsection (1)(a), 24 and therefore amendments Nos. 24, 25, 27 and (b), (c), (d), (e), (g), (h), (i), (j), (k), (l) or 28 may be discussed together. (m) or elected as referred to in subsection (1)(f), and Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 24: (b) a person who was a member of the In page 27, line 24, to delete “paediatrics” Council immediately before the com- and substitute “anaesthesia”. mencement of section 3 shall, on that commencement, cease to be a member of the I table these amendments as a result of consul- Council unless the person is appointed tation with the Medical Council. I was concerned pursuant to subsection (1) to be a member that the provisions, as drafted, in the original Bill of the Council.”. would not have given an option for a range of specialties to ever hold seat on the Medical Amendment agreed to. Council. Therefore, I have proposed an amendment to provide, first, that the specialty of anaes- Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 27: thesia, which has an important role, will have a In page 28, line 6, to delete “Subject to sub- seat on the council. The effect of this change also section (2), the” and substitute “The”. means that the specialties of pathology and radiology will share one seat on the council instead of having the right to sit on every third council. Amendment agreed to. I propose removing the guaranteed place for geriatrics and paediatrics as many of the issues Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 28: affecting these specialties can be covered by In page 28, to delete lines 10 and 11. others who are represented on the council. This leaves one open elected position which I hope Amendment agreed to. will satisfy the concerns expressed to me by the Medical Council. As I have stated before, the Amendments Nos. 29 and 30 not moved. council can include a much broader range of expertise, both medical and non-medical, on all Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 31: its committees. In page 30, line 14, after “satisfied” to insert the following: Amendments Nos. 27 and 28 are technical and consequential. “on the recommendation of the President of the Council”. Amendment agreed to. I make the same point in regard to this amendment. I feel I am repeating myself over and over Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 25: in speaking about the partnership that should In page 27, to delete lines 28 to 35 and substi- exist between the Minister and the Medical tute the following: Council. I propose that the recommendation of the president of the council should be included in “(d) one medical practitioner registered, the Bill to acknowledge the important place the or able to be registered, in the Specialist Div- president holds and the important role the Medi- ision in relation to pathology or radiology, cal Council plays in regard to this issue. 1297 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1298

Ms Harney: On the face of it, this seems Ms Harney: It has not been made; it was issued reasonable, but if the president, himself or her- for consultation. I can send the Deputy a copy of self, was the person to be removed, it would be it and I believe the hospitals have until this Friday difficult to see him or her recommending that. A to respond to it. member of the council can only be removed in specific circumstances such as illness, stated mis- Ms McManus: If I may point out a detail, when behaviour and matters covered under the ethics we received the Estimates it was stated that the in public office legislation. A member cannot be board has already been established. removed because he or she is someone the Mini- ster of the day does not like. A member can only Ms Harney: No. be removed for particular reasons and I do not Ms McManus: That was stated. believe it has ever happened in the past. Ms Harney: I invited a person to chair the Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. board and I announced that person’s name; it is Mr. Philip Lynch. The board has not been estab- Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 32 and 33 lished. It must be established under statutory are technical alternatives to the same Part of the instrument. I gave an undertaking to the hospitals Bill, amendments Nos. 34 and 35 are technical that they would be consulted. I believe that con- alternatives to the same Part of the Bill and are sultation process ends on Friday. related, amendments 36 to 38, inclusive, are related. Therefore, amendments Nos. 32 to 38, Ms McManus: I welcome that clarification. inclusive, may be discussed together. When I got the back up material for——

Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 32: Ms Harney: I apologise about that.

In page 31, line 7, to delete “Where” and Ms McManus: ——the Estimates, it stated it substitute “Subject to subsection (7), where”. was established. That is what confused me. I gave a commitment to examine this matter for I welcome the amendment. It improves the Bill Report Stage. The amendments I now propose immensely. I am glad to withdraw mine. will provide that the removal of council from office under the terms of subsections (5) and (6) Amendment agreed to. will require that a ministerial order, or draft of which, must be laid before both Houses of the Amendment No. 33 not moved. Oireachtas. The draft must be accompanied by a Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 34: statement of the reasons for the order. The order cannot take effect, unless a resolution approving In page 31, line 10, to delete “The Minister it is passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas. The may” and substitute the following: amendment to subsection (11) provides for the “Subject to subsection (7), the Minister continuation of the performance of the council’s may, by order,”. functions in any such situation.

Ms McManus: I welcome the Minister’s amend- Amendment agreed to. ment in this regard. It is a great improvement. I Amendments Nos. 35 and 36 not moved. am glad she has lived up to her commitment. She was sympathetically disposed towards the amend- Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 37: ment I put forward. I like her amendment because it also allows for more than the process In page 31, between lines 23 and 24, to insert whereby a document is placed in the Library and the following: we have 21 days to respond to it. The provision “(7) An order under subsection (5) or (6) in this respect is specific; a decision must be made removing the members of the Council from in effect and approval given by each House. That office shall not have effect unless— is a much more appropriate approach. It gives significance to something which may never be hap- (a) a draft of the proposed order and a statement of the reasons for the order pen but which would be a major and serious have been laid before the Houses of the decision for a Minister to make. The fact that it Oireachtas, and will be made by the Oireachtas rather than an individual Minister is appropriate to the import- (b) a resolution approving the draft has ance of such a decision. been passed by each House.”. I appreciate it is not fair to do this but I am still trying to chase up the statutory instrument in Amendment agreed to. relation to the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board. Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 38: 1299 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1300

[Ms Harney.] who is on the Medical Council but people can be In page 31, line 42, after “subsection (5)”to drawn in who are quite distant from the Medical insert “or (6)”. Council and who may have all sorts of reasons to want to gain influence. We need to be absolutely Amendment agreed to. scrupulous and tough about any possibility of conflict of interest arising that is not known and Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 39: understood and recorded. This is an important issue we need to address. In page 35, between lines 13 and 14, to insert the following: Ms Harney: I will revert to the Deputy. If the “(8) A disclosure under this section or ethics in public office legislation does not apply to section 31 shall be recorded in a register people co-opted on to committees then perhaps together with particulars of any interest of a code of conduct would be appropriate. I will members of the Council or committee or take advice. persons to whom section 31 applies, and the register shall be available to public inspec- Ms McManus: The only problem with a code tion during office hours.”. of conduct is that we will never know if people have complied with the code. The register con- This amendment deals with disclosure of interests tains information about any interest a person being recorded in a register. We must get our act may have. together regarding issues to do with conflict of interest. We have seen how easy it is for people Ms Harney: Where there is possible conflict to exert influence within the health service with- with a person’s work. out the checks and balances that apply in other countries. The register should be available for Ms McManus: When one considers the amount public scrutiny. of information that Members of this House give, there are no complaints because it is being done Ms Harney: This is a question as to whether for a good reason. We must give information the Medical Council should be required to go about our spouses and people unconnected with further than the requirements under the ethics in this House. It seems extraordinary that this could public office legislation and the standards in be an opening that could be availed of. This is the public office legislation. The council is required kind of body that could have significant influence to comply with both codes of conduct and it and power. would not be fair to single out the Medical Council for any greater scrutiny. I do not disagree Ms Harney: I will clarify what applies to people with some of the points made by Deputy co-opted. McManus regarding the need to have any conflicts of interest or disclosures appropriately dealt Dr. Twomey: Deputy McManus’s point is far with under a code of conduct which the HSE now more important than the Minister may realise. has for anybody appointed to positions in the The chief executive officer of the HSE is covered HSE. Members are required to sign a register and by codes of conduct and by the ethics in public declare their interests. office legislation but his advisers are not, even though they would have as much say and as much Ms McManus: I ask the Minister to clarify the authority in the way policies are formulated position. That may apply to the Medical Council because of their expertise which is also the reason members but are the people who may be co- they are acting as his special advisers. They will opted on to committees also governed by the not be covered but he is. same requirements? Ms Harney: They are covered by the code of Ms Harney: I will need to check that infor- conduct and they are required to sign a declar- mation for the Deputy. ation of their interests which is available to the board. Ms McManus: How can it be checked as we are dealing with Report Stage? Dr. Twomey: They are not covered by the more significant ethics in public office legislation. Ms Harney: The Bill must go to the other House and we may need to return to this House. Ms McManus: Is that declaration published? I do not know whether it only applies to the council members. It would obviously apply to the Ms Harney: I do not know. I have not seen it. CEO or the registrar under public office legis- The code of conduct was only approved recently lation but I will check. by the Department.

Ms McManus: It is more important that there Dr. Twomey: How recent is it? is transparency regarding people who are co- opted on to committees. Everybody will know Ms McManus: Since Dr. Maguire left? 1301 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1302

Ms Harney: I do not think it is since then but Amendment agreed to. it was this year. Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 43: Ms McManus: I will withdraw the amendment In page 39, line 8, to delete “designated.” on the understanding that the Minister will return and substitute “designated, and”. to the House.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Amendment agreed to.

Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 40 and 41 Amendment No. 44 not moved. are alternatives and may be discussed together. Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 45: Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 40: In page 39, between lines 8 and 9, to insert In page 38, line 40, to delete “after con- the following: sulting” and substitute “on the recommendation of”. “(c) the regulations made in exercise of that power provide that a person who was, We must be conscious that the balance is shifting immediately before the commencement of in this Bill and there is a danger that it will shift the regulations, lawfully using the title but to the point where people will simply feel disen- who, on that commencement, would contra- gaged. A process that works very well is one vene section 40(2) if the person continued to where the Minister responds through recom- use the title, may continue to use the title for mendation rather than simply consulting. The the period specified in the regulations (being word consulting is the most abused word in the a period reasonable in the circumstances but, English language. Everybody consults all the time in any case, not less that 6 months) without but that does not mean that it makes a blind bit contravening that section.”. of difference. Anybody who has served on a local authority knows this. Where there is consultation after all the decisions have been made is not a Amendment agreed to. productive use of anybody’s time. Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 46: Ms Harney: My amendment is similar in that it In page 39, line 34, to delete “A” and substi- seeks to achieve what Deputy McManus tute “Subject to section 39(2)(c), a”. suggested.

Ms McManus: I congratulate the Minister and Amendment agreed to. I will withdraw my amendment. Amendment No. 47 not moved. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 48 and 49 Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 41: are technical alternatives to the same part of the Bill and may be discussed together. In page 38, line 40, after “Council” to insert “or pursuant to a recommendation of the Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 48: Council”. In page 41, to delete lines 27 and 28 and substitute the following: Amendment agreed to. “(3) The register may be established and maintained in paper or electronic form.”. Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 42 to 46, inclusive, may be discussed together. On Committee Stage Deputy Twomey raised the matter of the meaning of section 43(3) and I Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 42: undertook to consult with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel. Accordingly, I propose In page 39, line 5, to delete “and”. an amendment which I hope clarifies the matter The Deputy and I have a similar interest here. I sufficiently for the Deputy. According to legal have sought advice on the matter and in the advice there must be one definitive version of the interest of fairness I recognise that time must be register, whether in paper or in electronic format. given to persons using a particular title in advance The alternative format can only be a repro- of implementation of regulations to either duction of the register at any particular time. achieve the standards required for its use or to That is the reason the phrase “in paper or elec- allow them an adequate opportunity to stop using tronic form or both” is not used in this provision. it in advance of the implementation of the regulations. I therefore propose an amendment to Amendment agreed to. section 39(2) to make it clear that the regulations would provide for this to happen. Amendment No. 49 not moved. 1303 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1304

Ms McManus: Is it for a particular reason that the directive differentiates between registration the Chamber is so cold? for the purposes of a more permanent establishment and registration for the temporary and Ms Harney: I agree with the Deputy that the occasional provision of services. I hope what I House is cold. have said may reassure the Deputy.

Ms McManus: A little bit of warmth would not Amendment agreed to. go astray. Amendment No. 52 not moved. Ms Harney: It is down to the Green Party trying to conserve energy. Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 53: Ms McManus: The Members of the Green In page 54, line 16, after “offence” to insert Party are all in their nice warm offices. the following: Dr. Twomey: If the heating is turned up it will “(being an offence which does or could increase the House’s carbon footprint. potentially reflect on the registered medical practitioner’s fitness to practice medicine)” Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 50: I made a point on Committee Stage regarding In page 42, between lines 31 and 32, to insert types of offences. The category of offences triable the following: on indictment are extremely broad and a com- “(9) A registered medical practitioner plaint could be made in respect of an offence that shall not be required to register his or her has nothing to do with a medical practitioner’s home address in any part of the register fitness to practice medicine. Such an offence which is open to public access.”. could, for example, relate to an infringement of planning or traffic laws. The provision appears The IMO is concerned, with some justification, too loose to ensure that the complaints process about the issue of security. Having been married will not be availed of in a way that is inap- to a GP for many years, I am aware that the propriate. family home becomes a place to which people readily come if they find themselves in diffi- Ms Harney: I accept the Deputy’s point but it culties. As a result, one’s family home can appear is difficult to rule things in or out. I am advised to be somewhat exposed at times. I am of the that if a complaint is not related to medical prac- opinion that the IMO was correct to raise this tice, the preliminary hearings committee will be matter. able to dispose of the matter very quickly. Ms Harney: The matter to which the amendment refers is covered. Ms McManus: I have a difficulty with that because there can be a timeframe involved. We Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. are discussing people’s livelihood and reputation. If someone loses trust in his or her doctor, it is Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 51 and 52 quite difficult for that trust to be won back. If a are related and may be discussed together. person makes a complaint that is completely without grounds because it is based on some Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 51: offence that has nothing to do with the practice In page 49, line 12, to delete “A” and substi- of medicine, he or she could still argue that the tute “Subject to subsections (2) and (7), a”. complaint has been put forward and that the Medical Council should pursue it. The council I understand why Deputy Twomey has concerns may decide that the complaint is frivolous and in respect of this provision. However, it is without foundation. However, it will still be included for the purpose of correctly transposing obliged to consider the complaint and it can take certain provisions of Directive 2005/36/EC, which time to do so. In the interim, the medical prac- relates to the provision of services on a temporary titioner who is the subject of the complaint would and occasional basis by visiting medical practitioners. The provisions of the directive reflect be in a vulnerable position. case law of the European court of Justice which A certain security would be provided if a com- has stated that the provision of services cannot be plaint could not be received or considered by the delayed unnecessarily by requiring a person who Medical Council because it did not adhere to the is lawfully established in another member state to requirements of the legislation. It would prevent again undergo a full registration process in the crazy people from making complaints to the member state he or she is visiting. However, the council on all sorts of grounds if it was possible directive provides for a process of temporary, to check an offence against the list provided in automatic or pro forma registration to be under- the legislation. If an offence is clearly discon- taken to allow for the application of disciplinary nected from the practice of medicine, a complaint procedures in the host member state. In this way should be immediately thrown out. 1305 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1306

Ms Harney: Section 57 specifies that the should be a requirement as to the nature of how grounds for a complaint to be made must relate a complaint is formulated. A complaint must be to professional misconduct, poor professional clear and comprehensive so that can a medical performance, a relevant medical disability, a con- practitioner can respond to it in a way in which travention of a provision of the legislation or a justice demands. conviction in the State for an offence triable on indictment, which would be a serious matter. It is Ms Harney: What the Deputy is seeking to not, therefore, possible to make a complaint in achieve is covered in sections 59(3)(a) and (b), respect of a trivial issue. We took legal advice and which give autonomy to the committee and thus were informed that it is difficult to restrict provide greater flexibility because it can prescribe matters any further. the form in which a complaint should be made etc. We are trying to strike a balance between Ms McManus: I referred to road traffic being fair to doctors, the persons against whom offences but these are not included in the list out- complaints are made and also to complainants. lined in section 57. There are, however, other Section 107(2)(a) provides that a specified form offences such as technical breaches of the Plan- may include a statutory declaration. ning Acts or the Companies Acts. An offence could, therefore, be committed in circumstances Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. that have nothing to do with the practice of medicine and the matter would have to go before the Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 55: Medical Council if a complaint was made. The In page 55, between lines 22 and 23, to insert council would then be obliged to waste time mak- the following: ing a decision on a frivolous complaint and the practitioner to whom it related would be left “(9) A complaint is a protected disclosure swinging in the wind. Due to the fact that pro- under the Health Act 2004 (as amended by vision is made in the legislation, the person bring- the Health Act 2007).”. ing the complaint would be in a position to justify his or her actions. Amendment agreed to.

Ms Harney: We took specific advice on this Amendment No. 56 not moved. matter, the substance of which was that we should not change the provision. I agree with what the Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 57: Deputy is saying and we do not want the Medical Council to deal with planning issues — it will not In page 57, between lines 27 and 28, to insert do so — or issues that have nothing to do with the following: a doctor’s fitness to practice. The council is not “(b) whether the nature of the complaint supposed to investigate any other matters even is such that it is capable of being resolved by though, I am sure, vexatious complaints will be means referred to in section 62,”. made from time to time by people who do not like particular doctors. Essentially, the legislation Ms Harney: If it is helpful, this is covered in is only designed to deal with professional issues. section 61(1)(c). I will take further advice and see if we can take on board the Deputy’s concerns. I do not disagree Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. with what she is saying, it is merely a question of whether we can do what she asks. Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 58 in the name of Deputy McManus. Amendments Nos. 61 Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. and 62 are related and are technical alternatives to the same part of the Bill. Amendments Nos. Acting Chairman: Amendments Nos. 54 and 56 58, 61 and 62 will be discussed together. are related and may be discussed together. Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 58: Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 54: In page 60, to delete lines 39 to 44 and in In page 54, between lines 19 and 20, to insert page 61, to delete lines 1 to 5 and substitute the following: the following: “(2) A complaint shall be made on a form “(2) A record shall be kept by the Fitness prescribed by the Council and shall contain to Practise Committee of the proceedings sufficient particulars to enable the registered before that committee, and the record shall medical practitioner to which the complaint be made available to the public by the Com- relates to respond to the complaint.”. mittee in the event of there being a finding It is stating the obvious but sufficient information adverse to the registered medical prac- and particulars should be supplied in order to titioner concerned, with the exception of any enable a medical practitioner to respond to a part of the record which the Committee complaint. This is such a serious matter, there decides to omit because it contains personal 1307 Medical Practitioners Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Report and Final Stages 1308

[Ms McManus.] In page 66, to delete lines 13 and 14. matters about any person which the Commit- tee considers should not be published, or Ms Harney: This is the ex parte application. because the Committee decides it would otherwise be appropriate to do so. The hear- Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. ings of the Committee shall otherwise be held in private unless the Committee other- Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 61: wise decides for substantial reasons.”. In page 71, to delete lines 15 to 21 and substi- Ms Harney: In my amendment, I have taken on tute the following: board a large part of the Deputy’s intent here by 85.—The Council shall, if satisfied that it requiring that the Council, after consulting with is in the public interest to do so— the Fitness to Practise Committee, may publish a transcript of proceedings. The transcript may (a) advise the public when— exclude identifying information of the parties to (i) any measure referred to in section the proceedings. This is where the proceedings 84(1) takes effect under this Part in are held in private, and for public interest respect of a medical practitioner, reasons. (ii) any measure referred to in section Ms McManus: I will accept that. It is broadly 84(2) in respect of a medical practitioner in line with what I am proposing and I welcome comes to the knowledge of the Council, that. (b) after consultation with the Fitness to Practise Committee, publish a transcript of Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. all or any part of the proceedings of the Committee at an inquiry, whether with or Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 59: without any information which would In page 65, lines 25 and 26, to delete all enable all, or any one or more than one, words from and including “(other“ in line 25 of the parties to the proceedings to be down to and including “71(a))” in line 26. identified.

Ms Harney: This is where no penalty or sanc- Amendment agreed to. tion is imposed, and the right of appeal and cen- sure. As I stated on Committee Stage, this is Amendments Nos. 62 and 63 not moved. being adjudicated on in the courts. The legal advice from the Attorney General’s office, and Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 64 is in the also from the Medical Council, is that we should name of the Minister. Amendments Nos. 64 and await the determination of the court before we 65 are technical alternatives to the same part of change the law here. the Bill. Amendments Nos. 64 and 65 will be discussed together. Ms McManus: What happens when the matter is determined? Would the Minister need to return Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 64: to the House with legislation? In page 73, lines 18 and 19, to delete all words from and including “with” in line 18 Ms Harney: If it was found that legislation was down to and including “Minister” where it necessary, we would have to amend this legis- firstly occurs in line 19 and substitute “after it”. lation. That will probably not happen for quite some time. I propose an amendment in lieu of Deputy Twomey’s amendment No. 65 to section 88(2)(a). Ms McManus: Is the Minister referring to the I am satisfied there is no particular requirement outcome of the court case or the amending for the council to obtain the consent of the Mini- legislation? ster for Health and Children on the approval of programmes of basic medical education and Ms Harney: I am referring to the decision of training, and the bodies to deliver these prog- the court. The case is being heard in June. It is a rammes. I have taken on board Deputy question of whether a determination will be made Twomey’s amendment. in June or a couple of months later. It could be a reserved judgment. I am advised that depending Amendment agreed to. on the decision, it could have implications for much other legislation as well. Amendments Nos. 65 to 67 inclusive, not moved. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 68 is in the Ms McManus: I move amendment No. 60: name of the Minister. Amendments Nos. 68, 69 1309 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1310 and 71 are cognate. Amendments Nos. 68, 69 and it meant they can use resources. We got rid of 71 will be discussed together. that for the reason Deputy Twomey outlined. The cost of competence assurance has not been Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 68: determined yet. We know the cost to the Medical In page 80, lines 24 and 25, after “practi- Council of administering competence assurance. tioners” to insert the following: Having heard from the Medical Council, I felt it was important the State would have to pay up “pursuant to a professional competence here. We have not determined the extent to scheme applicable to the practitioners which the State will have to pay up, but certainly concerned”. the idea is that it will be a large proportion of I gave a commitment to Deputies McManus and the cost. Twomey that I would introduce amendments on Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Report Stage linking section 91, in which the Medical Council is required to establish a pro- Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 71: fessional competence scheme or schemes. The purpose of these amendments is to make clear In page 80, line 30, after “basis” to insert that the duties of medical practitioners and the following: employers, including the HSE, relate to any such “pursuant to a professional competence professional competence scheme established scheme applicable to that practitioner”. under section 91 so that there is no doubt about it. Amendment agreed to. Amendment agreed to. Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 72: Ms Harney: I move amendment No. 69: In page 85, line 10, to delete “subsection In page 80, line 28, after “practitioners” to (2)(a)“ and substitute “subsection (3)(a)”. insert the following: This corrects a typographical error in the Bill “pursuant to a professional competence where an incorrect reference was made. scheme applicable to the practitioners concerned”. Amendment agreed to. Bill, as amended, received for final consider- Amendment agreed to. ation and passed.

Dr. Twomey: I move amendment No. 70: Estimates for Public Services 2007: Messages In page 80, to delete lines 29 and 30 and sub- from Select Committees. stitute the following: Acting Chairman: The Select Committee on “94.—(1) The Health Service Executive Finance and the Public Service has completed its and the registered medical practitioner shall consideration of the Revised Estimate of Vote 10 ensure that practitioner’s professional com- for services for the year ending 31 December petence is maintained on an ongoing basis.”. 2007; and the Select Committee on Agriculture and Food has completed its consideration of the The problem here is resourcing the competence Revised Estimate of Vote 31 for services for the assurance. The Minister has stated she has given year ending 31 December 2007. a commitment that the resourcing of the competence assurance will be looked after by the Sitting suspended at 6.50 p.m. and resumed at HSE, but it is not guaranteed that the HSE will 7 p.m. take full responsibility for resourcing. It is quite possible that registered medical practitioners Private Members’ Business. could also see their fee for registration with the Medical Council increase dramatically to pay for ———— the cost of this. As the Minister will be aware, medical registration is already a significant cost and this could add considerably to it. She has not Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: made quite clear for how much resources the Second Stage (Resumed). HSE would be responsible. Will the Department Question again proposed: “That the Bill be be responsible for the full costs of competence now read a Second Time.” assurance? Mr. Curran: I wish to share time with Deputy Ms Harney: In the Bill, as published, there was O’Connor. a reference to the HSE facilitating “to the extent practicable”, and the Medical Council made the Acting Chairman: The Deputy has ten minutes point of asking what that meant, for instance, if while Deputy O’Connor will have nine. 1311 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1312

Mr. Curran: I am sure he will mention Tallaght is a difference between full-time employment and sufficiently in the nine minutes. the work done by the members of various boards. These individuals have ability but I am concerned Mr. English: At least once a minute. that they would not respond to the procedures envisaged in the legislation. Mr. Curran: I welcome the opportunity to con- The Deputy also stated in his contribution that, tribute to the debate. I considered the Bill in “The Bill proposes several simple measures that detail earlier in light of last night’s debate and, can help restore public confidence in the system”. while it is thought provoking, I do not support it. This suggests an absence of public confidence but The explanatory memorandum states: I disagree. Many boards are respected and a substantial number operate effectively over a wide Public bodies are an essential feature of range of areas. The assertion that public confi- governance in Ireland and important decisions dence is lacking in all these boards does not stand affecting the lives of people are taken by indi- up to the scrutiny. viduals appointed to the boards of these The Deputy further stated: bodies. The present procedures for appointing board chairpersons and members are diverse It suggests that all public appointments to and badly defined. This has the potential of giv- State bodies and agencies [...] should, in the ing elite groups a monopoly of such positions first instance, be approved. We propose that an and therefore an inordinate degree of influence Oireachtas committee on appointments to on decision making. Renewed public confi- public bodies be established. dence is required in the integrity of procedures and there is a need to eradicate any element of However, this introduces another layer of patronage. This Bill seeks to establish an inde- bureaucracy. There are approximately 600 State pendent merit based appointment system, bodies, many of whose boards comprise 12 through a new institutional framework which members. More than 7,000 people, therefore, will allow for a systematic and transparent pro- serve on these bodies and the Deputy proposes cess of selection and appointments. This will that they should be appointed through a recruit- ultimately enhance accountability and rigor in ment competition overseen by a new Oireachtas these bodies. joint committee. That would involve considerable work. While there is merit in what Deputy Boyle is try- The Deputy seeks the establishment of the ing to achieve, the processes outlined in the Bill joint committee to carry out a review of all the will not achieve what he wants. Last night he procedures in place for the appointments of stated: chairpersons and board members of existing The overwhelming majority of those selected bodies and to establish a list of such appoint- to serve on State bodies are individuals of ments, which should henceforth adhere to the ability who contribute out of a sense of public new procedures. That involves significant work spiritedness. However, we must make a distinc- for many bodies. It removes from Ministers what tion between the people who are chosen and should rightfully be their responsibility and intro- the methods used to select them. duces another layer of bureaucracy. It is normal commercial practice for the share- The Deputy is correct that most of those holder to nominate people to the board to look appointed to State bodies are individuals of after the shareholder’s interest. In the case of ability and my concern is if the Bill is adopted, commercial semi-State bodies, the Minister with those people who are targeted currently would the relevant financial responsibility for the area not be attracted because of the bureaucracy and will nominate appointees to the board taking recruitment competitions proposed. In corporate account of the type of company involved. Ireland, when large companies recruit board Obviously, the Minister for Finance, as a share- members, people are head hunted based on holder or joint shareholder, is consulted on the ability, talent and expertise. Many of the individ- nomination. This system is in place and works uals serving on State bodies would not respond well. to the procedures envisaged in the legislation. I make this point because it could be construed One of the strengths of the present system is from the introduction of this Bill that people who that Ministers can approach those they consider are appointed to boards are able to go about their to have the qualities necessary to serve on the business freely. However, it is worth mentioning boards for which they are responsible. Many men that people who are appointed to boards do not and women on State boards have vast experience have a free hand as there are strict rules and in business or other relevant areas of public life guidelines in place. As recently as 2001, the Mini- and they have willingly accepted their positions ster for Finance issued the code of practice for out of a sense of public duty. I doubt many of the governance of State bodies. Its purpose was them would go through the process envisaged in to provide a governance framework within which the legislation. Such an approach would be the internal management and internal and exter- appropriate for recruiting employees but not nal reporting relationships of State bodies was to directors and chairpersons of State bodies. There take place. It is important to realise this point 1313 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1314 because one could draw the inference from the received by councillors was quite small and I Bill that one appoints people to State boards and know he had the same full-time job then as he so be it. However, nothing could be further from does today. It was unfortunate that the matter the truth as clear guidelines of codes of practice was raised in the House, where he does not have exist for the governance of such State bodies. an opportunity to defend himself. Moreover, it I wish to take issue with two points made by was not relevant to the Bill and on those grounds Deputy Gogarty during last night’s debate. He it was unfortunate that Deputy Gogarty raised it. stated: While I found the Bill interesting, it will not achieve Deputy Boyle’s intended objectives. The The same would apply for any other State procedures add nothing but another layer of body such as those in the education field, for bureaucracy and those with expertise, ability and example. In the case of a number of Bills... talent, who one tries to draw into such bodies and which I have been involved [in] during [the] boards, will not respond to the type of public Government’s term of office, the Minister for advertisement and recruitment procedures this Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, has Bill tries to set out. In that regard, I regret I will been requested to allow certain bodies rep- be unable to support the Bill. resentation on a board and various education partners have been requested to be on the Mr. O’Connor: As Deputy Curran mentioned boards concerned because of their specific Tallaght and South Dublin County Council, I skill[s]. ... The Minister has always stated that have hardly anything left to say. I welcome the she retains the right to appoint and she will opportunity to contribute to the debate on this weigh it up on balance. That is not good for Bill and I welcome the attendance of the Minister democracy. of State at the Department of the Environment, I fundamentally disagree with Deputy Gogarty as Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Batt I believe this constitutes democracy at work. The O’Keeffe. I could easily digress, as did other Minister of the day makes the decision. Democ- Members last night, and talk about everything but racy has allowed that person to be elected to this the Bill. House and subsequently to the office and that is our procedure of accountability. People are held Mr. English: That would be unlike Deputy accountable and the point made by Deputy O’Connor. Gogarty misrepresents and misunderstands the position. The State has accountability and democ- Mr. O’Connor: Perhaps the Minister of State racy and the election of the Minister to this and I could discuss the need to accelerate the House in the first instance and subsequently to programme for the development of the new fire the position of Minister constitutes democracy at station in Tallaght—— work. Mr. Boyle: Where? Deputy Gogarty made a further point that was at a tangent or not relevant to the Bill and which Mr. O’Connor: ——for which I have cam- was mistaken and regretful. He mentioned a paigned strongly. While I could easily spend number of people by name in respect of South seven and a half minutes talking about that issue, Dublin County Council. While I will not repeat I will resist that temptation. the names, he mentioned in particular a former councillor on South Dublin County Council who Mr. B. O’Keeffe: We gave you the money. now works as an agent to a developer in the area. Deputy Gogarty stated: Mr. O’Connor: I listened to Deputy Paul These are all people trying to do their jobs McGrath last night, when a more amenable Chair in private enterprise and there should be no allowed him to talk about everything, which was aspersions cast on their good character, but certainly entertaining. Without wishing to be dis- public bodies and public servants going to work ruptive about last night’s proceedings, it was sug- in the private sector should be subject to some gested that Government Members were not tak- form of control. ing an interest in the Bill. That was not true and I had looked forward to contributing to the debate. While I do not disagree with his point, the area I presume none of the Members present, he raised last night is not relevant to or reflected including my constituency colleague, Deputy in this Bill in any way. It was unfortunate that Crowe, has won the politician of the year award, individuals’ names were raised in the House last which is being announced as I speak. I am night in the context of this Bill, and it should not comfortable with that and can retain my low have happened. The Bill does not reflect the type profile. of issue that Deputy Gogarty was trying to raise. It is customary on these occasions to pay trib- This matter was particularly unfortunate in the ute to the mover of the Private Members’ Bill case of the former member of South Dublin and although I cannot support him, I compliment County Council, who was a councillor for a con- Deputy Boyle on his work and interest. The siderable time. I understand he was first elected Deputy and I go back for some time. If he does in 1991. In those days, the level of remuneration not mind me outing him, we were board members 1315 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1316

[Mr. O’Connor.] involved all sorts of people from all sorts of back- of the National Youth Federation. Politically, we grounds with all sorts of skills. went in different directions and I do not know Deputy Curran made the relevant point on the who was right and who was wrong. importance of the Minister of the day retaining, in so far as possible, discretion to pick people for Mr. Boyle: I was right of course. different boards. There will always be views expressed when people are not in Government, Mr. O’Connor: Of course. some of which change on entering office, as to what kind of people should be appointed and Mr. B. O’Keeffe: Deputy Boyle went off course what those appointments should be. I take the and strayed from us. view that all Governments will experience occasions when people disagree about particular Mr. O’Connor: In a debate like this, it is appointments. As far as many boards are con- important to acknowledge work that has been cerned efforts are made to get people with part- done. Reference has been made to this Bill which, icular skills and interests. unfortunately, I cannot support for a number of In my case, my community background, reasons. However, it has generated debate, which interest in health and education and pursuit of is positive. It has kept Members in the House on educational awards brought me to a situation a night when I would be happy to be in Croke where I was appointed to various boards. Later, Park, cheering on Richard Dunne from Tallaght I received a letter from a famous Fianna Faíl and the Irish team. However, I will conduct my Minister whom I shall not identify. She wrote and business and then watch the match on television. told me she appreciated the service I gave to the As for the business before the House, board and was now going to give somebody else Members should understand that the Private an opportunity to use their skills on behalf of Members’ Bill that has been tabled by their the State. Green Party colleague proposes the creation of It is fair to state the practices and procedures new procedures for the chair and boards of public adopted by the Government follow those bodies and for special appointments to inter- adopted by previous Governments. Through national organisations that are at the discretion these procedures a strong public sector has of the Government at present. Clearly, this is the evolved which delivers effectively a range of reason Government Members do not support public services. The House must be mindful of the Bill. the enormous contribution made by many people. I speak as someone who did not serve on major I hope it will refrain from putting in place pro- State boards. However, over time, I was cedures that would serve to deter rather than appointed to a number of different bodies. As attract people to positions in public bodies. I am Minister of Health after the 1987 general election, happy to have had an opportunity to make a the current Ceann Comhairle appointed me to short contribution on the Bill. I wish Deputy the board of St. James’s Hospital and sub- Boyle well but look forward to supporting the sequently to the Tallaght Hospital board. I was Government at 8.30 p.m. also appointed by other Ministers, not all of whom were members of Fianna Faíl, including Acting Chairman: Deputies O’Shea, O´ the former Minister, Deputy Howlin, who kindly Snodaigh and Crowe will share time. It is agreed appointed me to a hospital board. In addition, I Deputy O’Shea’s speaking time will be ten was appointed to the health promotion unit of the minutes, with five minutes each for Deputies O´ Department of Health and Children, as well as to Snodaigh and Crowe. Gaisce, the President’s awards. The relevant point in respect of the Bill and people’s com- Mr. O’Shea: I am pleased to have an oppor- ments on it is that I always considered such tunity to contribute to this debate on the appointments to be from the Minister of the day, Appointments to Public Bodies Bill. It is high including a Labour Party Minister, who examined time the Oireachtas addresses this area and I the skills that people possessed. I never pre- compliment the Green Party on bringing the Bill tended to be anything other than what I was. before the Daíl. Its drafting raises serious techni- However, I would not have been appointed to cal issues but the Labour Party will support it. those bodies at that time were it not for my com- The Labour Party introduced the 40% gender munity background. I do not make this point in a quota with regard to State boards. From my time virtuous way. It gave me an insight into the man- as Minister of State I recall great difficulties in ner in which such boards were set up and how appointing the best possible board. Having nomi- Governments work in that regard. nees from particular bodies on a board does not I was also appointed in 1996 by the then always lead to appointing the best people. Issues Taoiseach, Mr. John Bruton, to the Govern- such as worker participation on State boards are ment’s Devolution Commission. At the time I a different matter. I was never convinced of the was a lone Fianna Faíl representative on that prudence of having a number of people on boards body. When considering a Bill like this, one has who were nominees of particular bodies because time to reflect on such appointments, which one sometimes ended up with people who were 1317 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1318 good at getting themselves elected rather than on any such proposed appointments as it sees fit, people one would want. shall periodically consider and report upon the Ministerial discretion, if properly exercised, is general trend of such appointments, may suggest important in the context of appointing State alterations and improvements in procedures for boards. With regard to the gender quota, I recall making such appointments and may for those occasions when we had great difficulty in finding purposes hold hearings and take evidence. people with the proper qualifications to appoint It is important to have a full mechanism for to boards. It has become less of an issue in the accountability such as bodies responsible to the intervening time. Oireachtas which can take evidence through the I also remember issues raised when drafting committees. This issue concerns many of us. The legislation with regard to creating a proper for- main example is how difficult it is for us as mula to describe the people one wants and avoid- Members of the Daíl to obtain information from ing a situation where people who did not have the HSE. We table parliamentary questions the wherewithal to take up positions could be which are referred to the political division of the appointed. Phrases such as “experience in” and HSE. Even though procedures are improving and “knowledge of” were used. This is extremely we receive answers more quickly, I find it difficult important in terms of appointing the right board. to accept a scenario where there is no direct I wish to input some ideas to the debate and it accountability to the House and the Minister is is difficult to get the lay-out of legislation on this not answerable in a particular area. It is clearly a right. We must ensure openness, transparency problem not only with the HSE, other bodies are and public accountability when making public affected by the same issue. appointments. I suggest where appointments to I have outlined procedures that would be well any office, positions of employment or direc- worth exploring. The ideas include that pro- torships of a public body are proposed to be cedures shall apply to nominations for appoint- made by the Government, a Minister or a Mini- ment to any office or position which the Govern- ster of State, the Government or Minister should, ment, a Minister or Minister of State, by virtue of as soon as possible, lay certain documents before the State’s membership of an international body, the Oireachtas prior to making an appointment. proposes to make. Such procedure shall not apply I suggest among these documents would be a to appointments to membership of the Seanad, copy of a proposed contract or a statement in appointment of judges, offices of the Defence writing of the proposed terms and conditions Forces, members of the Garda Sıóchańa or civil applicable to the appointment, a statement deal- servants. I suggest this restriction is prudent and ing with the procedures followed for the purpose wise overall. of making an appointment specifying whether the Essentially, these are ideas I have floated. Ulti- vacancy was advertised and, if not, why not, whether applications were invited and, if so, from mately, the major issue with regard to any of whom and whether competitions or interviews these State bodies is that they serve the purpose were held. for which they are set up and that the member- I also suggest including a statement on the ship would be the optimum membership in terms selection criteria adopted by the Government or of achieving those goals. Minister, including any quotas, guidelines or The reason the Green Party introduced the Bill practices relating to the appointment of members and the reason other parties are concerned is to of particular groups specifying the qualifications ensure appointments are not made inap- considered necessary or desirable for the propriately, such as to reward political cronies appointment. etc. In these cases there would be very serious I also suggest that including a statement of the questions about the competence of the person qualifications of the person proposed for the being nominated to fill positions. appointment is relevant and a statement of any Other practices are operated by these bodies. previous appointments or contract for services For example, some directors or other appointees made or awarded in respect of that person by the would have a three-year span, with others having Government, a Minister or a Minister of State is a five-year span or whatever the case may be. It important. The documents should also include a is clearly important that people do not get dug in, statement on whether the person proposed for so to speak, and sit for too long on particular the appointment is or was a connected person to bodies when there is a need for fresh thinking. any public representative who is a member of a political party forming the Government or part of Aengus O´ Snodaigh: Ba mhaith liom faílte a it or a member of any such political party, specify- chur roimh an deis labhairt ar an mBille ta´bhacht- ing the connection and the political party. ach seo. Is trua e´ nach bhfuil an Rialtas ag gla- With regard to the public bodies we are dis- cadh leis, mar measaim gur a´bhar daírı´re is ea an cussing, a major necessity would be to instruct t-a´bhar seo. Ta´ an-chuid dos na boird Staít agus Oireachtas joint committees that under their na boird phoiblı´ lena bhfuilimid ag deileaíl ag orders of reference they may, and where a deánamh cinnithe rı´-tha´bhachtach o´ thaobh todh- request is made in writing by no fewer than one chaı´ phobal na tı´re seo. Bıónn tionchar ag na cin- third of the members shall, consider and report nithe a dheánann siad ar an bpobal i gcoitinne. 1319 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1320

´ [Aengus O Snodaigh.] an Bille agus molaim an Chomhaontas Ghlas as Sa la´ ata´ inniu ann, ta´ nıós mo´ agus nıós mo´ boird ucht e´ a chuir romhainn. Staít a´ chruthu´ ag an Rialtas. Cruthaı´tear bord Staít nua i mbeagnach gach Mr. Crowe: Maradu´ irt an Teachta O´ Bille a thagann roimh an Oireachtais. Deánann Snodaigh, ba mhaith liom faílte a chur roimh an an Rialtas iarracht cumhachtaı´ aírithe a thabhairt mBille. Sinn Feín welcomes the opportunity to dos na boird eágsu´ la. Nı´ ga´ ach feáchaint ar an speak on this Bill and commends Deputy Boyle meíd a dhein an Rialtas nuair a bhı´ siad ag and the Green Party for initiating a debate on the deileaíl le Aer Rianta anuraidh. Chruthaigh an issue. The question of who is appointed to State Rialtas trı´ chomhlacht as Aer Rianta. Ta´ an boards and how they are selected is very Rialtas ag roinnt Bord Sola´thar Leictreachais i important for society. The Green Party is right to gcodanna chomh maith. Bıónn ga´ leis na cinnithe point out that important decisions affecting the seo o´ am go cheíle, ach go minic nı´ fheicim an ga´ quality of life and services of people are taken sin don phobal. Ta´ an cumadh ar an sceál diadh by individuals appointed to the boards of these ar ndiadh go bhfuil na postanna seo a´ chuthu´ do bodies. Past practices have had detrimental con- chairde Fianna Faíl no´ an Paírtı´ Daonlathach. Ta´ sequences for the semi-State sector in particular. se´ seo ag ta´rlu´ . The process has been dogged by a lack of Cabhraıónn an cho´ ras seo leis an Rialtas agus accountability coupled with political appointees, le Airı´, ach go haírithe, ealu´ o´ n freagracht ata´ acu cronyism and an under-representation of women. do Tithe an Oireachtais nuair ataímid ag iarraidh The question that can be asked tonight is when freagraı´ ar a´r gceisteanna,. Luaigh an Teachta was the last time people from a marginalised or O’Shea cheist an HSE — ta´ se´ deacair du´ inn mar disadvantaged background, or minorities such as Teachtaı´ Da´la teacht ar freagraı´ ar na ceisteanna Travellers, were appointed to State boards. This mo´ ra a bhaineann le cho´ ras leighis na tı´re seo. has created a scenario that is rife with bad prac- Feicimid ro´ -mhinic go bhfuil daoine roghnaithe tice. No party that has served in Government is agus nı´ leı´r an bhfuil aon saineolas acu maidir leis free from complicity in these practices. an mbord ar a seasfaidh siad. Nı´ feídir linn a As was emphasised during the debate last bheith cinnte an bhfuil siad chun aon scil a tho´ - night, this has seriously undermined public confi- gaint go dtı´ an post nua ata´ acu. dence in public bodies in general. There is still a real, some might say justifiable, perception that Chuala me an Teachta Curran nıós luaithe ag public appointments are made on the basis of ra´ go bhfuil iad siu´ d ata´ tofa freagrach agus cun- who knows who and whether a person has con- tasach. Cad a tharlaıónn do´ ibh siu´ d nach bhfreas- nections to whatever parties happen to be in talaıónn ar cruinnithe na mbord? Bıónn mo´ rań power. In many cases political appointees have do´ ibh siu´ d ata´ tofa as la´thair don chuid is mo´ de little or no interests in promoting a healthy public cruinnithe na mbord. Nı´l aon freagracht acu don sector and in some cases they are opposed to its Teach seo. Go minic, deántar iad a ath-thofa no´ development. They may have very little if any rel- a ath-roghnu´ dos na mbord. Aontaı´m nach dı´re- evant experience. Sinn Feín has long argued for a ach ar cinneadh thobann amhaín gur choir du´ inn transparent and accountable appointment process daoine a ceapadh. Nı´ cho´ ir du´ inn postanna ta´b- where relevant qualification would be given due hachtach a lıónadh ar an bhonn sin. Deánann siad consideration. In many cases we have attempted cinnithe mo´ ra maidir le todhchaı´ na tı´re. to enshrine this in legislation before the House. B’fheídir go bhfuilimid beagaínıńnıós oscailte The North has many quangos and political na´ mar a bhıómar am amhaín. Ta´ eolas ag a lań appointees etc., and this will be addressed in the daoine faoi ca´sanna ina roghnaıódh daoine nach discussions taking place over the next couple of raibh oiriu´ nach. Ceńfa´th a bhfuil eagla ar an weeks. If we are to speak about a society based Rialtas maidir leis an mBille seo? Ba cho´ ir go on the principles of equality of opportunity, this mbeadh an cho´ ras rialtas nıós oscailte sa la´ ata´ quangoism and cronyism must be seen as wrong inniu ann. Conas is feídir le aon Rialtas chuir i and should not be allowed. Last night, the Mini- gcoinne an co´ d cleachtachas ata´ leagtha amach sa ster of State, Deputy Parlon, told the House that Bhille seo ag an Teachta Boyle agus a chomhlea- the Government considers carefully the attributes caithe? Aontaı´m gur cho´ ir go mbeadh na folu´ n- of the persons selected in the context of the tais fo´ graithe, go mbeadh ro´ l baill na mbord requirements of the post. The practices and pro- soileír, go mbeadh an reímse scileanna no´ an cedures adopted by the Government follow those cu´ lra riachtanach leagtha amach go soileír agus adopted by its predecessors. By telling us the go mbeadh an bunu´ s ar a roghnaıódh na baill seo Minister of State follows procedures adopted by leagtha amach. his predecessors, he confirms that the process and Ta´ ga´ ann cothramaıócht ceart idir scileanna bad practices of the past persist today. The Mini- agus cu´ lra a shonru´ . Ba cho´ ir go mbeadh na cinni- ster of State and the Government seem to be in the sna cha´sanna seo ar bhonn merit. Ag cur leis denial and are unaware of or oblivious to the an co´ d seo, ta´ ro´ lla´rnach a´ moladh sa Bhille seo damaging effect of cronyism on State bodies and do Tithe an Oireachtais, chun go mbeimid cinnte public confidence. How much time have I remain- go bhfuil an cinneadh is fearr a´ ghlacadh againn ing? The proposal in the legislation for a special o´ thaobh na mbord rı´-tha´bhachtach seo. Molaim unit to be attached to the Public Appointments 1321 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1322

Commission is worth consideration. The issue The legislation is timely and welcome and I will regarding the establishment of a joint Oireachtas support it in the House. It is worth referring to committee on appointments to public bodies may the explanatory memorandum, which lays out the be better dealt with by existing committees where Bill’s purpose. It states: “Public bodies are an members would have a better knowledge of the essential feature of governance in Ireland and specific State bodies in question. I would like to important decisions affecting the lives of people hear more discussion on this matter. It is correct are taken by individuals appointed to the boards that appointments must be made subject to of these bodies.” Therefore, it is important that greater scrutiny by the Daíl in particular. the right people — those with ability, the will of Another serious concern regarding public the people and a public service ethic — be appointments to State bodies is that many politi- appointed to the boards. Gender and age cal appointees have a selfish interest in promoting balances have been absent previously and a the privatisation of State companies from which number of groups that might not be seen as being they seek to profit. We should remember Aer particularly important in society have been Lingus and the actions of its management, which excluded. wanted to buy the company. What about the ongoing problems at An Post and the role its Ms C. Murphy: It would take a considerable board has played? Mismanagement at An Post amount of time and effort to analyse the systems has threatened the future of the post office net- that are in place for appointments to public work and rural post offices in particular. bodies. Thankfully, that time and effort has been invested by a group called TASC, a think tank An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy for action on social change in Dublin. In support should conclude. of the legislation, I will quote from TASC’s report, which captures what I want to say. In Mr. Crowe: Sinn Feín believes that a radical 2005, the report identified approximately 5,000 reform of the procedures for appointments to appointments to public bodies at national level, State boards is necessary. I commend the Bill to the majority of which were in the gift of Govern- the House. ment. If regional and local levels were included, that number would be significantly greater. The Mr. McHugh: I presume the Minister of State, report stated: Deputy Conor Lenihan, is playing snakes and Given the number of these appointments ladders. and the importance of the function which the appointees must perform, it is a big gap in our Ms C. Murphy: A crossword. accountability structure that Ireland has no clearly established mechanism to ensure that Aengus O´ Snodaigh: It is not a crossword. appointments are free from undue political or other influence or that there is an effective Mr. Healy: I wish to share time with Deputies independent appointments system in place. As Catherine Murphy, McHugh and Joe Higgins. of now, ministers and senior civil servants are responsible for appointing the majority of An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Agreed. members to Public Bodies. Moreover, the influence of the Oireachtas in the making of Mr. Healy: I welcome the opportunity to speak these public appointments is negligible... There on the Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007 is a lack of clarity as to the expertise or experi- and compliment the Green Party on introducing ence which might objectively merit such it. This is an important debate, but that the appointments. Without clear criteria there is matter has appeared on the Order Paper so late the danger of making appointments where the in the Daíl is a pity. appointee has either mediocre ability or is lack- The legislation’s background is the fact that ing the appropriate skills and knowledge. politics have been devalued during the years by broken promises and a lack of trust. For example, It also stated: “There are no effective mechanisms people make a series of promises in an election to ensure representation of the diversity of the manifesto or programme for Government, but Irish population: gender balance at 25%, is still upon entering office, they cast aside many if not short of the 40% guideline established in 1991.” all of their promises immediately and take a I am quoting, but not selectively. Had I the time, different road than indicated. Politics and poli- I would quote the entire report. ticians have consequently been brought into The report continues: dispute. Overall, the present system of appointment I do not disagree with the belief out there con- to Public Bodies effectively gives elite groups a cerning cronyism, namely, that Ministers have the monopoly of such positions and therefore an opportunity to ensure their friends are appointed inordinate degree of influence on decision to State bodies by way of a reward for being making in the State... The unplanned and ad members of the political parties in power rather hoc mushrooming of Public Bodies combined than on the basis of ability. with the lack of good information about them 1323 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1324

[Ms C. Murphy.] committees. It is obvious that decisions made by is bad for democracy. The very existence of An Bord Pleana´la which was mentioned many these agencies in the ad hoc and fragmented times during the debate last night are often of manner in which they have grown up adds a fundamental importance to communities. The further layer to the bureaucracy of govern- public can only have confidence in the decisions ment, constraining an individual citizen’s of a body such as An Bord Pleana´la if it has confi- ability to interact with an agency from which dence in the people making those decisions. The they are seeking a public service. The case has only way people can have confidence in such now been persuasively and repeatedly made decisions is if they are fully aware of the appoint- for a strategic overview to be taken of Public ments, if they are told why individuals are being Bodies, in accordance with clear criteria. appointed, if they are satisfied that appointees I will refer to two final quotes: “It is now more have no vested interests, if they are happy that than forty years since the absence of a clear the appointees will act impartially in making strategy for the establishment of Public Bodies decisions and if they are convinced that has been identified as a key problem in urgent appointees will act in the common good. A need of reform”. This is not exactly a rush. change in the system of making appointments to Further, “Given the growing importance of public bodies is needed if such a level of confi- Public Bodies and the influential role of non- dence is to be achieved. Despite what I said about elected individuals on important public decisions the establishment of another Oireachtas commit- and actions, this accountability system needs to tee, it may be appropriate to provide for a com- be extended to create an independent system for mittee to vet appointments to bodies such as An these appointments.” The report’s gist is clear. Bord Pleana´la. That might be the only democratic It is interesting that the Progressive Democrats way of verifying that the system is transparent Party, which described itself in its founding mis- and open. It is not alleged that all appointments sion statement as wanting to remove the State made under the present system are suspect. In from people’s lives, has been in government dur- many cases, people offer their time and experi- ing the years of a proliferation of State bodies. ence for a minimal allowance. The Government’s accountability has been removed from people’s lives. Indeed, the report, Mr. C. Lenihan: That is right. Outsourcing Government, from which I quoted is well named. I support the legislation. Mr. McHugh: As almost 500 public bodies with a national remit are in operation — there were Mr. McHugh: I am pleased to have an oppor- just 80 such bodies in 1980 — in effect, approxi- tunity to speak on the Green Party’s Appoint- mately 5,000 appointments at national level are ments to Public Bodies Bill 2007. While I compli- in the gift of the Government. The public bodies ment Deputy Boyle on introducing the Bill — I which have a combined annual expenditure of understand he did the spadework in this instance, \13 billion not only need to be accountable but as he so often does — I caution against the estab- also need to be seen to be accountable and trans- lishment of another quango to do quite a simple parent in the decisions they make. job. I have doubts about the practicality of the Bill’s proposal that an Oireachtas committee be Mr. J. Higgins: I welcome the Green Party’s set up to vet applicants or nominees for positions decision to raise the issue of the manner of the in public bodies. My wonderment is based on my appointment of individuals to public bodies. I feelings about the current operation of the com- have often raised this issue in the House during mittee system. Deputies are stretched to the limit my ten years as a Deputy. in many cases when trying to cover their commit- The State’s system of public appointments is tee work and follow proceedings in the Da´il rife with patronage; it is anti-democratic and open Chamber. I wonder if the establishment of a com- to mass abuse. Fianna Fa´il has been a past master mittee, the remit of which would be to vet in this regard, but only because it is the party people’s qualifications, would be successful. If which has spent the longest time in government one examines the work of the sub-committee since the foundation of the State. All the political which deals with EU directives, one will quickly parties which have spent time in government learn that it does not have enough time to con- throughout the history of the State have used sider issues in detail. If the proposed appoint- their positions, where possible, to promote party ments committee is established, I suspect similar members or supporters to the boards of public circumstances will be encountered. Will this pro- bodies. Individuals were appointed to prestigious posal genuinely improve the situation, or has it State boards because they were hacks of the pol- merely been suggested to improve the optics? itical parties which happened to be in power. While I agree that the process of making They were not appointed because of any expert- appointments to many public bodies needs to be ise they were able to bring to the position. Such scrutinised, a distinction needs to be made behaviour constitutes a gross abuse of public between appointments to An Bord Pleana´la, for bodies, State and semi-State industries, the example, and appointments to prison visiting employees of those industries and taxpayers. 1325 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1326

Five outgoing Fianna Faíl Ministers stuffed 60 pro´ iseás daonlathach amach is amach. Nı´ ceart go nominees onto a range of State boards after the mbeadh an Rialtas in ann a chairde fheín a sha´ 2002 general election, before a new Government isteach sna boird ta´bhachtacha seo ar mhaithe leis was put in place. During last autumn’s contro- na hAirı´ agus na paírtithe polaitıóchta a chru- versy involving the payment of money to the thaigh an cho´ ras a bhı´ agus ata´ ann go dtı´ an bpo- Taoiseach, it emerged that five of the Taoiseach’s inte seo. Ba cheart go ndeánfaı´ co´ ras daonla- 12 friends who assisted him financially had been thach, ina gcuirfı´ chun cinn lucht oibre — na appointed to important public bodies in the State, daoine a u´ saídeann an seirbhı´s — agus go rach- including Aer Lingus, the Central Bank, the faidı´s ar aghaidh chun a bheith tofa go dtı´ na Dublin Port Authority and Enterprise Ireland. boird seo, agus chun seirbhı´sda´ bhrı´ sin a chur ar The Taoiseach let it slip that they had been faíl agus comhlachtaı´ a tho´ gaint ar aghaidh a n- appointed because they were friends of his. Such oibreo´ dh i ndaírı´re mar seirbhı´s do mhuintir na a system is rotten to the core. There is no ques- tı´re seo. tion about this. I would like to highlight another key factor Minister of State at the Department of Foreign which is separate to the cronyism evident in the Affairs (Mr. Treacy): I propose to share time with way State boards have been appointed by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen. This Governments and the political parties which have Private Members’ Bill proposes new procedures comprised those Governments. It seems Govern- for the appointment of the chair and boards of ments appoint their ideological friends to these public bodies and for special appointments to positions. Persons who are in favour of privatis- international bodies that are currently at the ation, for example, are appointed to key positions discretion of the Government. We do not support in public bodies. When the Government disgrace- the Bill. The practices and procedures adopted by fully moved to privatise Aer Lingus, a crucial this Government follow those adopted by pre- public body, were those on the board so commit- vious Governments. A strong public sector has ted to public ownership that they were prepared evolved, delivering a range of services very effec- to voice publicly their opposition to the disgrace- tively. The House must be mindful of the contri- ful proposal? It was radically opposed by rep- bution made by such people and refrain from pro- resentatives of the workers and the trade unions, cedures that would deter rather than attract as well as many other members of society. people to positions on public bodies. I welcome this debate and I am pleased Deputy I listened to the proposals of Deputy Joe Boyle has raised this issue. The Socialist Party Higgins, which smack of McCarthyism. I can would take a more radical approach than that think of several supporters of other political par- envisaged in this legislation. The ties and Members of this House who were 8 o’clock boards of crucial State companies appointed by this Government and other such as Aer Lingus should be demo- Governments led by Fianna Faíl and served the cratically elected, rather than appointed. The State. One example is the former leader of the board of Aer Lingus, for example, should be Opposition, Mr. Alan Dukes, whom we elected from among that company’s workers who appointed to head the Agri-Vision committee to over decades have developed the State and semi- examine the agricultural industry up to 2020. He State company in question into a premier service did an outstanding job. To say that we only for the people, making enormous sacrifices along appoint our colleagues is crazy. the way. They know inside out how the company and its services operate and how such operations Mr. P. McGrath: Council colleagues are could be greatly improved. The users of the appointed to prison visiting committees. services of State and semi-State companies should be democratically elected to the boards of Mr. Treacy: The arrangements for the compo- such companies. People who regularly travel on sition of and appointments to the boards of State and use the services of Aer Lingus for their work bodies is usually set out in legislation establishing or holiday and personal travel should be allowed the bodies. Normally these appointments are to bring their expertise to the board. This model made by the Minister with responsibility for the could be applied to bodies across the spectrum of body, subject to the consent of the Minister for Irish society, including the health service, which Finance. Ministers must consider the merits of the would be transformed if they were opened to the appointees and ensure they have appropriate fresh winds of democratic accountability and the skills and experience for the position. Ministers democratic election of those who run them, are answerable to this House for such appoint- rather than being subject by Government diktat ments. They need flexibility to choose members to further layers of bureaucracy at the top. of State boards. The range of skills and experi- Mar focal scoir, cuirim faílte roimh an dıós- ence needed for the board of a major commercial po´ ireacht seo, ata´ curtha ar aghaidh ag an Chom- State company is significantly different from that haontas Ghlas, ata´ ag iarraidh athcho´ iriu´ a of a small regulatory body, of which there are dheánamh ar an bpro´ iseás ceapachaín comhaltaı´ many under the aegis of the Department of na boird agus comhlachtaı´ Staít, agus postanna Health and Children. There is nothing wrong speisialta aírithe eile. Ba cheart go mbeadh an with the current system and the success of our 1327 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1328

[Mr. Treacy.] The role proposed by the Bill for the commit- commercial State bodies supports the view that tee, to review all the procedures in place for the the boards appointed in the past worked exceed- appointment of chairpersons and board members ingly well. of existing public bodies and to establish a listing Deputy Boyle’s Bill does not have due regard of those appointments which should henceforth to the nature of State bodies. Such bodies report come under the new procedures set out under the to the Minister who has sectoral responsibility for Bill within one year, would impose a complex them. The joint committees of these Houses have administrative task on any Oireachtas committee. the authority to call in the chairman and top man- No criteria are provided in the Bill to select the agement of each State body. In most cases such bodies that must come within the remit of this bodies were established by legislation that sets Bill. How will the committee make the decision? out functions and responsibilities of the Minister What is an appropriate body to which this Bill and Department. These include the functions per- should apply? formed by the body, the submission of annual The procedures set out in Deputy Boyle’s Bill reports and accounts, borrowing, pay and pension would involve the establishment of a public matters, recruitment of staff, increases in fees or appointments unit in the office of the Com- prices as well as other matters. Ministers also set mission for Public Service Appointments, the out the policy to be followed. I doubt such people advertising of all public appointments and the would wish to reply to advertisements and com- holding of public recruitment competitions for all pete for positions. Such an approach is appro- positions. In addition, the appointments would be priate for employing people within organisations ratified by a joint Oireachtas committee. These but not as directors or chairpersons of State procedures are disproportionate and unwieldy bodies, which is fundamentally different from and likely to deter rather than attract suitable full-time employment. Tapping the experience of persons. Sections 17 and 18 deal with the dis- business people has been useful to the public sec- missal of a chairman or board member. Pro- tor, particularly for State companies and advisory visions dealing with dismissal suggest a lack of groups. Such groups have advised Governments understanding of the public service ethos on on policies and strategies. which we rely when filling the positions on boards Once a prospective board member accepts the of public bodies. offer of a position, he is subject to a range of The current arrangements for appointments to legislative guidelines, notably the Ethics Act and the code of practice for the governance of State State bodies are workable, practicable and help bodies. In October 2001 the Minister for Finance recruit people from whom the entire public published the code of practice for the governance service benefits. There is no reason to discourage of State bodies, which was formally approved by energetic, dedicated people with a proven track the Government as binding on all State bodies. record from being appointed to State bodies by The code stresses the code of conduct for direc- the Government of the day. tors and employees. These should be in written form and a template in the code acts as a guide. Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iamnot All State bodies must also have an internal audit convinced of the need for the Bill. The current function or engage external expertise. The code system for appointing people to State bodies has also refers to procurement and disposal of assets been in existence for a long time. It has worked and sets out a framework for best practice, cor- well. Governments of various hues have tapped porate governance of State bodies and principles into the advice and experience of experts, busi- of quality customer service. ness people and professionals, which has Membership of the board of a State body is a informed Government and helped to make pro- demanding role. The stringent requirements gress. The Bill is drafted to include State bodies, imposed by the Government bring significant boards, advisory groups and other agencies. responsibilities for all directors and a high degree Much of the comment has focused on board of accountability. The Ethics Act, the Ethics in members of State bodies. Public Office Act and the Standards in Public Many people who have successful careers in Office Act also have implications for directors. non-public work will not apply to be interviewed The Ethics Act requires directors of prescribed and vetted as proposed by this Bill. Busy people public bodies to make a declaration of interest who, when approached by Government to do to a nominated officer of the body such as the some public service, may respond positively when chairperson of the board or a company secretary. offered a position on an advisory group or State The proposed Bill is heavy-handed and bureau- body but would be unlikely to push forward to cratic. It would make it difficult to recruit appro- seek positions. State companies have progressed priate people to State bodies and advisory over the years in part because of the boards that groups. The Bill includes all executive bodies, oversee development. Other groups have advised advisory bodies and task forces. Up to 600 bodies Governments on economic and social policy and must be considered by the Oireachtas committee have contributed in this way. I see no reason to for the purposes of deciding who comes within change to a cumbersome and bureaucratic the remit of the Bill, a considerable task. system. The system is not perfect but Deputy 1329 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1330

Boyle’s proposals would not lead to a better parties, and who might not have shared my politi- system. cal view at all, because I regarded them as people My ministerial colleague, Deputy Parlon, set who had done a very good job and shown a com- out the reasons we oppose the Bill, the purpose mitment to public service. They had shown a of which is not clear. Where is the value added? particular flair and ability as regards the boards to The Deputy referred to a crisis of confidence in which they were assigned. I have done that—— our State bodies but I have not detected it. Mr. Cuffe: Would the Minister say the same for Mr. Boyle: The taskforce on active citizenship his Cabinet colleagues? released its report today. The Minister should read it. Public confidence in politics is very low. Mr. Cowen: ——on many occasions. The Eth- ics in Public Office Act 1995 and the Standards Mr. Cowen: It is amazing that party member- in Public Office Act 2001 requires the directors ship should mean disbarment from public service. of prescribed public bodies to provide annual statements of interests to a nominated officer of Mr. Boyle: I did not say that. It should not be the body concerned such as a chairperson of the the sole criteria. board or the company secretary. The statements of interest must also be given to the Standards in Mr. Cowen: I understand Deputy Boyle will Public Office Commission. The type of interests close the debate. I am entitled to speak uninter- that are to be disclosed include details of occu- ruptedly in the House. pation, shares, other directorships, land, travel or accommodation services provided at less than the Mr. Boyle: I have learned from the Minister’s commercial price, public service contracts, gifts combative style. etc. Directors may also voluntarily disclose other interests not listed in the legislation. If a director Mr. Cowen: If that is the case, fine. I am just needs to carry out a task and discovers he or she making the point to the Deputy that I have been has a material interest in it, he or she must inform Minister for Transport, Industry and Communi- the other directors. A director must not perform cations in charge of commercial State bodies. I such a task unless there are compelling reasons have been Minister for Health, Minister for to do so, and in the event, he or she must inform Foreign Affairs and Minister for Finance. On all both the other directors and the Standards in of the board appointments I make I seek to Public Office Commission as regards the compel- appoint competent people. I do not regard politi- ling reasons. cal party membership as a precondition for eligi- I remind Deputes that the code of practice for bility, but neither do I regard it as a disbarment. the governance of State bodies also seeks to That is a fair and honest assessment of the ensure that all State bodies are governed to the situation. This politically correct culture which best possible extent in line with best practice. The espouses that to be a member of a political party purpose of the code is to provide a governance is potentially a subversive activity, prohibiting framework within which the internal manage- one from meeting the required standards set ment and internal and external reporting of down by State-sponsored bodies is a non-runner. relationships of State bodies is to take place. The I am sorry but the evidence is not with the framework within which boards must operate is Deputies opposite on this. set by the code. It provides board members with the way in which to measure their actions. Mr. Cuffe: That is not the issue. Deputy Gogarty referred to instances where Mr. Cowen: I am sorry but the evidence is not former employees take up work after leaving the with the Deputies on this. That is the point. They public service. I am not sure how this Bill would bring their prejudices to the legislation and affect employees. However, there are procedures expect us all to agree with it. in place both in the Civil Service and the local authority area regarding the acceptance of out- Mr. Boyle: It is based on experience. How side appointments and consultancy engagements many party members has the Minister appointed? following resignation or retirement. In the Civil Service the code of standards and behaviour pro- Mr. Cowen: I have outlined my experiences, as vides that a civil servant should not accept an a Member of this House for 23 years. I challenge appointment or particular consultancy project the Deputies to find any board under my aegis where he or she believes the nature and terms of which did not comply with requirements. In fact such an appointment could lead to a conflict of I have reappointed—— interest or the perception of such, without first obtaining the approval of the outside appoint- Mr. Cuffe: It is the Minister’s colleagues we ments board established under the code, or of the worry about. Secretary General or head of office, as appropriate. Additionally, civil servants who hold posi- Mr. Cowen: ——-many people who were tions which are designated posts for the purpose appointed by my predecessors, of other political of the Ethics in Public Office Acts must, within 1331 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1332

[Mr. Cowen.] another very good reason for his appointments to 12 months of resigning or retiring, obtain the boards. It is clear that board appointments are approval of the outside appointments board or regarded as the spoils of war after an election. the Secretary General or head of office, as appro- I know this from my experience on Dublin City priate, before taking up any outside appointment. Council when the Green Party had the oppor- Similar provisions now apply in the local auth- tunity to be a minor player at local government ority area. level when we formed a coalition with Fine Gael, Deputy Sargent spoke about the composition the Labour Party and independent councillors. of school boards of management. This proposed We had the opportunity, then to select people for Bill would not affect such boards. Boards of man- board membership and we did that. The point agement are put in place in line with the legis- that has been made here is relevant. We dis- lation and are not appointed by the State. Deputy covered that it sometimes was difficult to get Eamon Ryan referred to pension entitlements of people, particularly when the position was not board members. I am not sure what he is refer- remunerated. However, if a position is paid well, ring to here since, in general, it is only the chief many people would like such a placement and executive officer and staff of boards who hold while the Minister might say that at all times he pensionable positions. acted in the public interest, if he is to be abso- I welcome the point made by Deputy Paul lutely honest, I am sure he knows of people on McGrath. It is one I have mentioned already, to boards and wondered why, in God’s name, they the effect that some people with great experience were appointed. Too often the reason for such will be unwilling to apply for posts, but might appointments is that they know someone. agree to a request from Government to serve. That is the difficultly. As a result of that, as I Any system must not be such so as to deprive have discussed with many colleagues in Oppo- people of the opportunity to use their experience sition, Fianna Faíl has this wonderful network for the good of the country. throughout the country of people it has In conclusion, I reiterate that the current appointed. Even when it is out of Government system has worked well. It is an appropriate and in Opposition, it has key people all over the system for appointments to various State groups. place. It has this very powerful network at all lev- This system allows us to benefit from the wide els of the community. It never ceases to amaze experience of people and allows them to do valu- me when fine people pop up and then at election able public service. If there are instances under time one sees them canvassing with Fianna Faíl. this system where that has not happened, there I am not saying—— are accountability mechanisms that can ensure no reappointment. If there is a clear issue where Mr. Cowen: Is that a crime? people are not competent in a particular area, their unsuitability will become obvious fairly Mr. Gormley: No, it is not a crime or a subvers- quickly. It is in line with the tradition of citizens’ ive activity and we have not said that. and public service in terms of the appointments system as it exists. This Bill would not enhance Mr. Cowen: I thank the Deputy very much. matters. Instead, it would reduce the attractive- ness of taking up public service and make it diffi- Mr. Gormley: I am saying they were appointed cult to draw on the necessary experience and because of their party political connections. It is expertise that has been available to Governments not a crime in any sense to be a member of a in the past. political party, and——- Mr. Cowen: That is a big concession. Mr. Gormley: I am sharing time with Deputies Cuffe and Boyle. I commend Deputy Boyle for Mr. Gormley: ——I am not suggesting the “de- drafting this legislation. Two of my colleagues Fianna Faílification” of society. won awards this evening for best politician and best TD, Deputies Sargent and Eamon Ryan. Mr. Boyle: That is an interesting idea. Deputy Boyle deserved to get something, but perhaps next year when he is serving in Government Mr. Cuffe: It is worthy of discussion. he will get an award. I very much welcome the opportunity to speak Mr. Gormley: It is an interesting idea. Some on this legislation. I listened earlier, briefly, to people may believe that is a fantastic idea and Deputy O’Connor. He is a fine guy and I get on perhaps it is worthy of further debate. with him, but he said something which caught my attention, namely, that he was appointed to var- Mr. Cowen: Even I do, sometimes. ious boards simply because he was an active member of the community. I am sure he is a very Mr. Gormley: It is a fact that elsewhere such active member of the community and he reminds decisions are made in a different way. At our the House all the time what he does for Tallaght. press conference I mentioned the example of the However, I believe that is not the only reason he UK, from which we could learn. I know of people was appointed. His links to Fianna Faíl were there, with no party political affiliations, who 1333 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1334 have been appointed on merit alone and because Mr. Cuffe: A peace commissioner should not they fulfil certain criteria. That is the example we be appointed by the Minister for Justice, Equality need to follow. It is not about getting bogged and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell. down in bureaucracy but about fairness and merit and, as a result, making our society more Mr. Cowen: On a point of information, will the effective. Deputy give way for the purposes of the debate?

Mr. Cuffe: This Bill is about merit rather than Mr. Cuffe: It is patently a political appointment patronage. There are still too many village chief- to be a peace commissioner. If there is any role tains in politics. There are too many pork barrel for a peace commissioner, it should be that of politicians who dispense the spoils of office to administering justice which should be beyond the those who have helped them along the way. For party political remit. The Green Party wants far too long appointments have depended on who change in this area. There have been many ques- one knows rather than what one knows. tionable appointments due to the existing system. If one examines the prison visiting committees Mr. Cowen: Or both. appointed by the then Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O’Donoghue, Mr. Cuffe: The Green Party is simply pro- was there something special about the people of posing that the best person is found for a job County Kerry that they got most of the jobs? rather than someone who knows the person Were there other factors at play? appointing him or her. For example, women only account for 25% of State board appointments Mr. Cowen: What do prison visiting commit- when it should be 50%. It is happening because tees do? the Minister for Finance and his pals around him — mainly fellas — know lads whom they get Mr. Cuffe: That is village chieftain politics appointed. rather than the politics of merit. I would rather see the politics of merit come to the fore. Last Mr. Cowen: I do not see too many women on year when the members of the heritage trust were the Green Party’s benches. appointed, the Minister responsible, Deputy Roche, ignored An Taisce. If that is not spite, Mr. Boyle: We are working on it. what is it? I cannot believe he passed over some of the people who have contributed most to the Mr. Gormley: We are waiting. protection, preservation and conservation of towns, villages and houses. There is something Mr. Cuffe: That is why the Green Party is sug- strange afoot. gesting it should not be within the remit of the fellas in Da´il E´ ireann to make these appoint- Mr. Cowen: Nonsense. ments. The Green Party suggests it be taken away from the chieftains and given to an impartial body Mr. Cuffe: The same Minister has appointed which can chose from the credentials of the right 400 persons to the boards of public bodies, while woman or man for the job. the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Mr. Cowen: We are elected to make decisions. Reform has appointed 1,900 in the past five years. The Deputy will find this out in due course. Is it correct for Ministers to make such appointments? Mr. Gormley: I thank the Minister for his confidence in us. Mr. Cowen: What is democratic accountability about? Mr. Cuffe: The Bill proposes the establishment of an appointments to public bodies unit, an Mr. Cuffe: Can I be allowed speak without Oireachtas joint committee on pubic appoint- interruptions from the gentlemen across the ments, and to provide for a Da´il vote of approval floor? for special appointments such as those to international organisations. Mr. Cowen: Will the Deputy take a question?

Mr. Cowen: Who would appoint the members Mr. Cuffe: I am happy to take questions in the of the appointments to public bodies unit? Minister’s time but not mine.

Mr. Cuffe: An Bord Pleana´la would do a better Mr. Cowen: If he does not wish to take a ques- job if the Minister for the Environment, Heritage tion, will he just indicate so? and Local Government, Deputy Roche, did not have the final say on who was appointed to the Mr. Cuffe: Can I have my time? board. Mr. Cowen: On a point of order, a Leas- Mr. Cowen: Who picks the board? Cheann Comhairle—— 1335 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1336

Mr. Cuffe: A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, can I be gist of his contribution was that everything was allowed to finish? all right. It was obvious from his contribution that matters are not all right. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: It is not normal The members of the boards of over 600 State practice to take questions during Private and public bodies are appointed by ministerial Members’ time. diktat. They come to 6,000 people. Since 1980 the increase has been tenfold. The Minister for Mr. Cowen: Is there a procedure to ask a Justice, Equality and Law Reform has appointed Deputy a question? close on 2,000 people to State boards; the Depart- ment of Health and Children, 1,400 people; yet, An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: If the Member we are to take this for granted as good public gives way. governance. It is not. On the day the Taoiseach wrapped himself in Mr. Cowen: At what stage does he indicate he the cloak of respectability with the launch of the gives way? Does he say yes or no? report of the task force on active citizenship——

Mr. Gormley: The Minister is losing his head. Mr. Cowen: He commissioned the report. He must be preparing for opposition. Mr. Boyle: The report states there is wide- Mr. Boyle: Is this a new principle from the spread disenchantment with the quality of public Minister? I would like to see him give some of life. That is feeding down to the way people con- his time. tribute to normal community and civic life.

Mr. Cowen: It is just a matter of clarification. Mr. Cowen: The report states the opposite. If the Deputy does not give way, must he indicate so? Mr. Boyle: Until we are prepared to grasp this as a problem, it will only be perpetuated. The first An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Yes. action must be to recognise 600 public and State bodies and 6,000 appointments need to be ration- Mr. Cowen: If he does not wish to give way, alised. The Green Party’s proposed public that is fine. appointments unit would have this as its first task. An appointments procedure must be open, trans- Mr. Boyle: This is not the House of Commons. parent and encourage public confidence. The current system does not do this. Mr. Gormley: He has indicated he does not I accept the majority of State appointees are want to give way. people who are civic-minded. Many of them, however, are also appointed on the basis of who Mr. Cuffe: I would like to use my slot. As we they are and where they come from. do not get that much speaking time in the House, we use it to our best ability. The Minister gets Mr. Cowen: What is the Deputy’s problem much more time to speak. with that?

Mr. Cowen: It is proportionate to one’s Mr. Boyle: If they are public bodies—— mandate. Mr. Cowen: In many instances, if I appoint a Mr. Cuffe: Many bodies such as Transparency person to a board, do I not need to know who he International and the Democracy Commission or she is? have called for reform in this area. Even the task force on active citizenship noted the lack of Mr. Boyle: They must properly reflect the public confidence in the bodies which the society they represent. The Minister cannot pre- Government appoints. Many countries such as tend the way in which current public bodies are New Zealand, Australia and Canada have refor- appointed and their composition properly reflect med their appointments processes. Appointments society. Instead, they represent particular must be made on merit, not the individual prefer- slanted interests. ences of Ministers. Mr. Cowen: Not at all. That is what is wrong Mr. Boyle: I thank those Members who have with the Green Party approach. contributed to the debate, particularly the Mini- ster for Finance. I admit yesterday I was discour- Mr. Boyle: Until we have a system that goes aged on hearing the contribution of the Minister beyond this, the slanted interests system will of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy remain in perpetuity. Parlon. He represents the junior partner in the I would like to respond to some of the criti- Government, a party which set out to break the cisms of the Bill, some of which were valid. The mould in politics but has ended up supping from point of a Second Stage debate is to accept the the bowl more deeply than any other party. The concept of a Bill and to let it proceed to Commit- 1337 Appointments to Public Bodies Bill 2007: 28 March 2007. Second Stage (Resumed) 1338 tee Stage, on which amendments can be accepted What we propose is an open system such as that that will improve the Bill. We propose that minis- which exists in other jurisdictions. The Minister terial responsibility in this regard should be main- may not like it now or for the eight weeks remain- tained and it can be further enhanced by the ing of the 29th Da´il but he will have to think hard Minister accepting a number of nominations about this because whatever government replaces from, what we propose to be, the commission on the current Government on the benches public appointments and the ultimate selection opposite—— can be made subsequently, which would be ratified by either a specified Oireachtas committee Mr. Cowen: Give me a break. or an existing committee. That could be teased Mr. Boyle: ——will have to seriously consider out on Committee Stage. these types of reforms. I take issue with the point that proposing two methods of assessment and ratification is an over- Mr. Cowen: I listened to this cant 12 years ago bureaucratisation of the process. Hundreds of as well. items of legislation govern our systems of public appointments and the approach to it is overly Mr. Boyle: Otherwise the party on this bench, bureaucratic. Our proposals would simplify the and expecting to be on the benches opposite in a system, which is badly in need of simplification. number of weeks’ time—— As regards the notion of people being too exalted in our Republic to be asked to account Mr. Cowen: I am glad to have an opportunity for themselves in terms of being servants on to come back in. This is nonsense. public bodies, the system could be modified in the Mr. Boyle: ——will not offer that level of sup- sense that people could directly apply by public port. I ask the House to support this Bill. advertisement or the public advertisement could be phrased in such a way that people could be Mr. Cuffe: Hear, hear. nominated by the public advertisement to go to the bodies that we propose for their assessment. Question put.

The Da´il divided: Ta´, 50; Nı´l, 58.

Ta´

Boyle, Dan. McGrath, Paul. Broughan, Thomas P. McHugh, Paddy. Bruton, Richard. McManus, Liz. Burton, Joan. Mitchell, Olivia. Connaughton, Paul. Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda. Costello, Joe. Murphy, Catherine. Cowley, Jerry. Naughten, Denis. Crawford, Seymour. Neville, Dan. Crowe, Seań. O´ Caolaín, Caoimhghıń. Cuffe, Ciarań. O´ Snodaigh, Aengus. Deasy, John. O’Dowd, Fergus. Durkan, Bernard J. O’Keeffe, Jim. English, Damien. O’Shea, Brian. Enright, Olwyn. O’Sullivan, Jan. Ferris, Martin. Pattison, Seamus. Gilmore, Eamon. Quinn, Ruairı´. Gogarty, Paul. Rabbitte, Pat. Gormley, John. Ryan, Eamon. Gregory, Tony. Sargent, Trevor. Hayes, Tom. Sherlock, Joe. Healy, Seamus. Shortall, Ro´ isıń. Hogan, Phil. Stagg, Emmet. Howlin, Brendan. Stanton, David. Lynch, Kathleen. Timmins, Billy. McCormack, Pa´draic. Upton, Mary.

Nı´l

Ahern, Michael. Carty, John. Ahern, Noel. Collins, Michael. Andrews, Barry. Cooper-Flynn, Beverley. Ardagh, Sea´n. Coughlan, Mary. Blaney, Niall. Cowen, Brian. Brady, Johnny. Cregan, John. Brady, Martin. Cullen, Martin. Callanan, Joe. Curran, John. Callely, Ivor. Dempsey, Tony. Carey, Pat. Dennehy, John. 1339 Health 28 March 2007. Services 1340

Nı´l—continued

Devins, Jimmy. Moynihan, Michael. Ellis, John. Nolan, M. J. Finneran, Michael. O´ Fearghaı´l, Seań. Fitzpatrick, Dermot. O’Connor, Charlie. Fleming, Seań. O’Donnell, Liz. Glennon, Jim. O’Flynn, Noel. Grealish, Noel. O’Keeffe, Batt. Hanafin, Mary. O’Malley, Fiona. Haughey, Seań. O’Malley, Tim. Hoctor, Maíre. Power, Peter. Jacob, Joe. Roche, Dick. Kelleher, Billy. Sexton, Mae. Kelly, Peter. Smith, Michael. Killeen, Tony. Treacy, Noel. Kirk, Seamus. Wallace, Dan. Kitt, Tom. Wallace, Mary. Lenihan, Brian. Walsh, Joe. Lenihan, Conor. Wilkinson, Ollie. McEllistrim, Thomas. Woods, Michael.

Tellers: Ta´, Deputies Boyle and Stagg; Nı´l, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher.

Question declared lost. Mr. Connaughton: I thank Deputy Enright for allowing me the opportunity to raise the same Adjournment Debate. matter concerning a number of my constituents, particularly one in south Galway. This elderly ———— man had an analogue hearing aid which did not suit him as is the case for many people. He has a Health Services. medical card and is on a very low income. He tried to better himself by acquiring an attachment Ms Enright: I wish to share time with Deputy for the analogue hearing aid which makes it a Connaughton. half-digital system. The hearing aid is relatively I am raising this matter from a degree of frus- good but it is extremely uncomfortable and is tration with the Billy to Jack service being pro- inconvenient. I wish to make a special case for vided by the HSE and the Department of Health the many hundreds of people at this stage in their and Children with specific reference to a constitu- lives. Thankfully, I do not have a problem with ent of mine but it is a matter of general concern my hearing. However, I imagine that it is a great of which Deputy Connaughton and other col- drawback to have a hearing impairment. As leagues also have experience. Deputy Enright stated, quality of life is a matter My constituent was informed he would be fit- of major importance to the people to whom she ted with a digital hearing aid in October 2005. He referred. We should at the very least provide digi- attended his son’s wedding last weekend without tal hearing aids for those who are on low incomes having been fitted with a digital hearing aid. The and who are also on medical cards. I understand HSE informed me on 1 December 2006 that it that the technology is so good that the units are would be commencing the process of supplying becoming less expensive. I cannot understand digital hearing aids in early 2007. It is now one why the HSE is not in a position to deliver the third of the way through 2007 and the digital type of equipment which can be life changing for hearing aids are only being supplied to children. many people. I accept this was the initial plan and I have no difficulty with prioritising children but I have a Minister for the Environment, Heritage and difficulty with the slow pace of delivery which Local Government (Mr. Roche): I am taking this extends to a year and a half for this gentleman. matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister He has endured a poor quality of life because of for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. his poor hearing. All he is asking for is a digital As the House will be aware, the Health Act hearing aid. These appliances cost in the region 2004 provided for the establishment of the Health of \1,300. I ask for a commitment from the Mini- Service Executive, HSE, which duly came into ster on the timescale within which those already being on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the HSE assessed will be supplied with their hearing aids. has the responsibility to manage and deliver, or This is a simple request and not something one to arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health would imagine would need to be raised on the and personal social services. This includes the floor of Da´il E´ ireann. However, because of the delivery of audiology services and the prioritising lack of response to date I had no other choice but and resourcing of the development of national to do so. I ask the Minister for a firm commitment community audiology services is now a matter for as to when the people who have applied will the HSE. Nonetheless, I am happy to set out the receive their appliances. position as regards this matter, as well as to con- 1341 Water 28 March 2007. Pollution 1342 vey the information provided by the HSE on the for Health and Children, rather than dealing with specific questions asked by the Deputies. the matter via this set-piece debate on the The national community audiology service pro- Adjournment. We had no other option but to vides free audiology services for all children, raise the matter on the Adjournment when our irrespective of their parents’ means, and for motions under Standing Order 31 were refused. adults who have eligibility. For an adult to be eli- I have every confidence in the Minister for the gible, he or she must be in possession of a current Environment, Heritage and Local Government medical card. The service held 4,822 clinics in but he will read from a prepared script that will 2006 and 39,432 patients were seen. A figure of be relevant to the subject but will not provide \1,663,430 was spent nationally on hearing aids answers in respect of some of the questions and accessories in 2006. Deputy Michael D. Higgins and I intend to pose. Until the end of last year, all hearing aids fitted The Minister is aware that the waters of the by the national community audiology service Corrib are seriously polluted and, as a result, were of the analogue type. However, since the 90,000 people in Galway city, Oughterard, Killan- beginning of 2007, the HSE, as part of the mod- nin, Moycullen, Oranmore, Maree, Derrydonnell, ernisation of the service, has started the roll-out Athenry, Corrandulla, Annaghdown, Headford, of the provision of digital hearing aids for chil- Tuam and elsewhere have been affected. The dren up to the age of 18 years. The reason for Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht this was the impact of hearing loss on children’s Affairs gave an interview in respect of this matter education. earlier this evening on national radio and he As Deputy Enright said, everyone would agree appeared to indicate that \21 million has been that if we are going to focus resources, they available since 2002 for water treatment works in should be focused in this direction. At present, Galway city and county. He more or less laid the the HSE does not provide digital hearing aids for blame at the door of local authorities for not tak- adults over the age of 18 years. However, it is ing up the offer of this money. Will the Minister examining the costs involved in providing digital for Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- hearing aids to adults. In addition, it hopes to ment, Deputy Roche, indicate why that \21 mil- establish a national review of audiology services lion was not spent in Galway, where the water to explore the delivery of such services in the supplies of city and half the county are sourced most appropriate setting. from the 60,000 acre Lough Corrib, which has Meanwhile, the HSE has worked to ensure been seriously polluted with the cryptosporid- national standardisation of approaches to waiting ium virus? lists and waiting times using a standardised tem- It is no wonder that the Corrib is polluted, plate. Data according to this revised template is particularly as a result of the Government’s fail- due to be reported at the end of the first quar- ure to provide sewage treatment plants and ter 2007. sewerage schemes in towns and villages which A further imperative is to develop integrated surround it such as Headford, Claregalway, working for those with hearing loss at primary Oughterard, Cornamona and Clonbur. The care level between audiologists, general prac- Government neglected its duty by not providing titioners, speech and language therapists, public the necessary infrastructure to which I refer. We health nurses, etc. The HSE also envisages the have been warning about the danger of pollution development of audiology services that will be in the Corrib for many years. fully integrated between acute hospitals and com- There appears to be an attitude that this prob- munity services and delivered in the most appro- lem in Galway should be hushed up. It is a serious priate setting. problem and well over 100 people were identified The Department of Health and Children is as having contracted the virus and several were committed to the continued development of com- hospitalised. However, several hundred more munity audiology services. I will ensure that the people, whose immune systems were better able comments of both Deputies are brought to the to combat the infection, were also affected. The attention of the Minister for Health and Children, virus is extremely dangerous for the elderly, the Deputy Harney. young and people who are receiving chemo- therapy. People who live in the affected area cannot touch the water, drink it, use ice cubes made from it or brush their teeth. The Govern- Water Pollution. ment’s attitude appears to be that the matter Mr. McCormack: I welcome the Minister. Earl- should be played down. ier today, Deputy Michael D. Higgins and I Deputy Paul McGrath tabled a parliamentary tabled motions under Standing Order 31 question earlier today in which he asked the requesting the Adjournment of the Da´il to dis- Minister for Health and Children the number of cuss this extremely important issue relating to the deaths that have occurred over the past ten years well-being and health of people in Galway. It from the presence of cryptosporidium in public would have been far more satisfactory if we had water supplies, and the groups vulnerable to engaged in a debate under Standing Order 31 serious injury or death from this organism. The with the Minister and his colleague, the Minister Minister replied to the question but did not 1343 Water 28 March 2007. Pollution 1344

[Mr. McCormack.] prepared and I have asked for an explanation of provide any information about the number of that. I have indicated to my Department that the deaths. From my research, I am aware that a brief, as soon as it is submitted, receive immedi- number of deaths have resulted from people ate attention and clearance in the Department. being infected with this virus in recent years. I hope this latest incident will prompt the Why is it not possible to face up to the fact council in this case to show urgency in the matter that we are faced with a serious crisis? Will the and will certainly prompt local council members Minister for the Environment, Heritage and to show more focus and ambition on the issue. Local Government outline the steps being taking After all, that is what the people of Galway city in Galway to put in place the necessary infrastruc- and Galway council have elected their councillors ture to facilitate the filtration and treatment of to do. Deputy McCormack might like to inquire drinking water of the population of Galway city locally as to precisely why there has been such and the surrounding area? This problem will not lethargy on the issue. My Department has spoken go away by itself, particularly since it has been to the council and I am convinced that it is work- established that the Corrib is polluted. What ing hard on the issue. steps is the Department taking to ensure the I also understand from the contacts that have problem in the affected area, in which I live, will been made with the city council that it is putting be remedied as soon as possible in order that temporary filtration facilities in place until the proper water supplies will be restored to the upgrade of the Terryland plant is complete and people who reside there? will produce a report on the available options later this week. As soon as that report comes to Mr. Roche: I thank the two Deputies who my Department it will receive attention. I whole- raised this matter. Deputy McCormack asked a heartedly support the idea and my Department specific question and I will cut to the details of will assist the council in any way it can. Moreover, that because he is entitled to specifics. we will look positively on and support any pro- The presence of cryptosporidium was con- posals from the council for advance works on the firmed on 20 March, as Deputy McCormack \ knows. It was found to be involved at the old Ter- 21.5 million permanent scheme. ryland plant, which is part of the Deputy McCormack mentioned other schemes 9 o’clock Galway city water supply. That was in the area and I will advert to two of them. The confirmed by further research the Headford water supply scheme is a small stand- following day. I understand that there is no cryp- alone scheme using raw water from Lough Corrib \ tosporidium to be found in the Galway council’s with disinfection only. A 29 million extension to second and more modern plant at Terryland. the Tuam regional water scheme to Headford, Deputy McCormack asked me specifically to which is also funded by my Department, is under clarify the position on funding. I am pleased to construction and commissioning is expected to confirm that the funding has been in place for a take place in August next. In the meantime, I number of years but that the Galway council still understand that Galway County Council has has to prepare the brief to draw down that secured an alternative supply, which could be in funding. place within a week or so, from the Caherlistrane- Inadequate filtration capacity at the old treat- Kilcoona group water scheme, which itself has ment plant in Terryland is at the centre of the had a \4 million treatment plant installed last problem in Galway city. Funding has been in month with funding from my Department. It is place for some considerable time, under my simply untruthful to suggest that funding is not Department’s water services investment prog- being provided by the Government. ramme. As Deputy McCormack acknowledged, the funding is in the sum of \21.5 million. That Mr. McCormack: I spoke about the past. money is intended to upgrade the plant and will minimise future risk of cryptosporidium entering Mr. Roche: The funding is in place now. As I the supply. I understand that Galway City stated, the council in Deputy McCormack’s area Council will submit a brief for the appointment has had \21.5 million available to it to do this of consultants to prepare a preliminary report for work. I realise he is not a member of the council, this scheme to my Department as soon as but local inquiries should be made as to why that possible. was not spent. As Deputy McCormack stated, the current difficulty for the people in Galway is an extremely Mr. McCormack: I was a member. serious matter. One of the basic and fundamental supplies which our local authorities are respon- Mr. Roche: I am sure Deputy McCormack sible for providing is clean water and it is aston- would have been much more active in this matter ishing that \21.5 million has been available to than certain current councillors, who preach carry out services, with which, as Deputy about the green agenda but do not practise it McCormack suggests, it has been known in this when they are in power in their local council. I area for some time that there were problems. I have clarified that funding of \21.5 million has cannot understand why the brief has not been been in place for some time for the Terryland 1345 Road 28 March 2007. Network 1346 upgrade and I look forward to the council coming up to good condition the 230,000 sq m of road forward with the proposals. that need to be addressed would cost \2.83 mil- Returning to the first point, I agree with lion, but it has allocated \300,000 for this year Deputy McCormack — I also spoke privately to which is significantly short of what is needed. Deputy Michael D. Higgins who is not in the Over the winter some of the bus services for Chamber but who I am sure has been inadver- school children were not provided because the tently detained — that it is wrong that 90,000 roads were inadequate. Some of the roads have people should be without water. It is doubly crumbled at each side and are not even capable wrong when 90,000 in an important city and sur- of taking cars in both directions simultaneously. rounding area are without water when the fund- Kildare motorists paid \35 million in motor tax ing is in place. Deputy McCormack and other last year into the local government fund, for public representatives in the area and, more which it is ring-fenced, and the local authorities importantly, the people of Galway, are entitled to in Kildare received \27 million back. I, therefore, an explanation for that. reckon that Kildare is the biggest net contributor I give Deputy McCormack and this House an to that fund. assurance that I will do everything in my power Taking the local government fund and the com- to ensure that as soon as the brief comes up, it mercial rates together, the two counties with the will not stay for a moment longer than required lowest spend per head of population were Meath in my Department. I have also stated that I made and Kildare, respectively. While within those clear to my Department that I want it to be help- counties the widespread perception is that the ful and to assist Galway through this great diffi- money must be spent in Naas, Newbridge or else- culty, particularly given the time of year. As where, it is the inadequacy of resources that is Deputy McCormack stated, it is not just an incon- the problem. By not spending enough, there is a venience but is a threat to public health and to degree of wastage by repairing roads rather than life itself. That is not acceptable, particularly doing a proper job. when local councils have funding available to Some years ago the former Minister, Pa´draig them. Deputy McCormack can assure his con- Flynn, declared a war on potholes and I want the stituents, as I have assured all the other public Minister, Deputy Roche, to declare a war on pot- representatives in the area, that I will encourage holes in north-west Kildare. I have a copy of the the council to be ambitious and will encourage photographs concerned to hand and if the Mini- my Department to co-operate fully with Galway ster saw them, he would agree this is not accept- to bring this matter to an end. able in a country that is as well off as we are. With regard to transport, a state-of-the art high- Road Network. way was constructed not far from this part of County Kildare by a public private partnership Ms C. Murphy: I particularly highlight the area which is not used by everyone because these of rural roads in north-west Kildare. Clearly, people face difficulties in accessing it. They feel there has been tremendous pressure on many of like the forgotten people. I would like to give the these roads because they are being used by Minister a copy of the photographs and I invite vehicles which are too large for them. Indeed, him to meet these people because I am sure they many gravel pits and the like have contributed to would welcome him if he came to see first-hand the damage. However, significant budgetary con- the difficult circumstances they are experiencing, straints are experienced by Kildare County although he would be shocked by the condition Council as a direct result of the population of the roads. I hope he will not tell me how many growth. Although it may well have escaped millions have been allocated to County Kildare or notice, Kildare is the fourth most populous how well-off the county is because that is a myth. county, behind Dublin, Cork and Galway. It has overtaken Limerick. Kildare now has a large Mr. Roche: I hope not to disappoint the population, with all the related demands placed Deputy but I intend to outline the extraordinary on it. Obviously, the stresses and strains are being resources currently available to Kildare County seen in areas such as roads. Council, not only from Exchequer funds but also Kildare County Council carried out a dilapi- due to the development contributions taken in by dation survey of roads in north-west Kildare the council in recent years and the buoyancy of which were west of the R402, the Enfield-Edend- its rates. If any local authority should be facing erry road. Subsections of the road were categor- difficulties in this area, it is not Kildare County ised as very poor, poor, fair, good or very good, Council. and good was identified as a road with good visi- I have significantly increased the allocation to bility which was free of potholes for at least 1 km non-national roads this year, with \947 million or which had no more than ten repaired potholes coming from the local government fund. General per 1 km. The council then carried out a costing purpose grants from my Department have also exercise to calculate the cost of bringing the road been significantly increased to meet the gap up to a good standard. The cost per square metre between the cost to local authorities of providing was based on the historical knowledge, VAT etc. a reasonable level of day-to-day services and the Kildare County Council concluded that bringing income they obtain from other sources. The 1347 The 28 March 2007. Adjournment 1348

[Mr. Roche.] upgrading local infrastructure. The Deputy is cor- amount I am providing this year represents an rect that there has been a significant increase in increase of 8% over the amount provided in 2006. commercial and construction traffic in County In the case of Kildare County Council, I have Kildare, with punishing implications for roads. provided \26.48 million in general purpose grants However, that traffic has also produced the 50% in 2007, or three times the amount received in increase in development levies. I am not sure 1997. This represents an increase of 10.8% on whether any other local authority achieved such 2006. The Deputy will accept the allocation is an increase. ahead of the rate of inflation. If any small or The raising of development contributions and medium business in County Kildare was able to the policy principles for expenditure are matters guarantee an 11% increase in its bottom line for local councillors but community gain should revenues, it would be very happy. be a primary consideration. If the Deputy has The provision, maintenance and improvement concerns about how resources are being of non-national roads is a matter for local auth- expended, she should raise them with her local councillors. I find it strange that the council has orities to fund from their own resources, sup- informed her it does not have the resources to plemented by grants provided by my Depart- carry out a comprehensive audit of roadworks for ment. In 2007, the grant allocation by my the county. I do not understand how a local auth- Department to Kildare County Council for ority representing a county which has experi- improvement and maintenance works on non- \ enced such a phenomenal increase in develop- national roads is 23.53 million, while the munici- ment levies could make such an excuse to a palities in the area received additional funding. public representative. This is three and a half times the funding pro- The Exchequer is also providing significantly vided in 1997 and seven and a half times the pro- increased funding to local authorities towards vision in 1994. Over the same period, Kildare infrastructure provision in other areas, such as County Council’s own resources have fluctuated national roads, housing and water services. In the dramatically. One of the problems for the county past decade, the substantial level of resources may be an eccentric voting pattern by councillors provided to local authorities through central with regard to funding. The figures available on funding and the fruits of economic success my Department’s website reveal some extraordi- resulted in a trebling of local authority expendi- nary variations. The council’s resources were \4.1 ture. Every local authority in the country is million in 2001 and \1.6 million in 2002, and sub- experiencing increases in population, although sequently increased to \7.4 million and \7.6 mil- these increases are higher in some areas than lion. I commend the council on its recent allo- others. When I establish general purpose allocations, which have amounted to \10 million over cations, I consider non-national road grants, the past two years. Like many other local auth- increased rates income and the resources now orities, the increased investment in non-national flowing into local authority coffers from develop- roads being made by Kildare County Council ment contributions. from its own resources is not keeping pace with This argument is too often made by local auth- the increases in those resources. orities. I believe there is insufficient ambition The Deputy has a lot of experience as a coun- among elected council representatives to perform cillor, so she will be aware that rate income in thorough audits of how funding is being spent. The Deputy may agree with me on that issue. It County Kildare has doubled over a six-year is the reason I have proposed establishing period. Development contributions have internal audit procedures in every local authority. increased even more spectacularly, from \6.4 mil- \ Good quality external auditing experience would lion in 2000 to 27.4 million in 2005. I understand give elected members the ammunition to ensure the estimate for development contribution \ more ambition, efficiency and delivery at local income was over 37.3 million last year, or a 50% level. I am familiar with the potholes in County increase in one year alone. Any council receiving Kildare, some of which are herculean in size. those sums has no excuse for potholes. That However, lack of funds is not a reason for the money is intended for a variety of purposes, lack of attention given to these potholes. Funding including public lighting, roads and pavements, is being provided but it needs to be used properly. rather than being simply lodged in the bank. Development contributions are specifically The Da´il adjourned at 9.20 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. designed to ensure developers play their part in on Thursday, 29 March 2007. 1349 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1350

Written Answers.

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The following are questions tabled by Members for written response and the ministerial replies as received on the day from the Departments [unrevised].

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Questions Nos. 1 to 22, inclusive, answered Limerick, which was included in their submission orally. to the Department of Finance on the National Development Plan. Questions Nos. 23 to 60, inclusive, resubmitted. Given the current priority to ensure the successful delivery of the National Conference Questions Nos. 61 to 70, inclusive, answered Centre, it may be premature at this time to orally. embark on a publicly-funded feasibility study for additional major conference facilities, although Public Private Partnerships. the issue will remain under review in the light of emerging demand for conference-related tour- 71. Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for Arts, ism business. Sport and Tourism if research has been carried out by his Department or Fa´ilte Ireland into the feasibility of providing a conference centre in the Performing Arts. Shannon area on a public private partnership 72. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Arts, basis; and if he will make a statement on the Sport and Tourism the reason he has not estab- matter. [11751/07] lished the Irish Academy for the Performing Arts as promised in the 2002 Programme for Govern- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. ment; and if he will make a statement on the O’Donoghue): As the Deputy is aware, my matter. [11765/07] immediate priority is the provision of a National Conference Centre in Dublin, in line with the 100. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Arts, commitment in the Agreed Programme for Sport and Tourism the reason the proposal for an Government. Following a protracted public academy for the performing arts was abandoned private partnership process, I am hopeful that by the Government; and if he will make a state- contractual arrangements with the preferred ment on the matter. [11753/07] tenderer will be completed over the coming weeks, leading to the delivery of the conference Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. centre some 40 months later. The Product O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. Development and Infrastructure sub-programme 72 and 100 together. of the National Development Plan 2007 –13, I refer the Deputies to my reply of 13th includes provision for the PPP funded capital cost October 2005 and 6th July 2006 in which I stated of this project which, when fully operational, is that responsibility for the establishment of a expected to generate additional foreign revenue third-level Irish Academy for the Performing earnings of between \25m and \50m per year. Arts was transferred from the Department of Neither my Department, nor I understand Education and Science to my Department in Failte Ireland, has undertaken any specific 2003. However, no transfer of capital funding for research into the feasibility of providing a con- the project occurred. Capital funding is not cur- ference centre in the Shannon area on a public rently available to me to progress the develop- private partnership basis. I am, however, aware ment of an Irish Academy for the Performing of a proposal by the Irish Tourist Industry Con- Arts. federation for the development of a major It should be borne in mind that in 2003 the Regional Conference Centre at Shannon/ Government initiated its first educational Public 1351 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1352

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] ment to assist in the preparation of the Strategy. Private Partnership in the form of its \58.4m It is envisaged that the Strategy will be completed investment in the Cork School of Music, part of by the summer. The overall aim of the Strategy the Cork Institute of Technology, which has is to identify the facilities needed for any given facilitated its development as “a centre of musical sport so that, insofar as is feasible and reasonable, excellence locally, regionally, nationally and all those who want to participate in sport can do internationally”. so within a reasonable distance of their home or base, and at reasonable cost. Sports Facilities. One of the key outputs from the Strategy will be a definition of an appropriate level of sports 73. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Arts, facility provision, based on relevant international Sport and Tourism if he will report on the nation- experience and practice, the Department’s policy wide audit of sports facilities; and if same will be objectives in this area, and Irish circumstances completed by the time this Government leaves and conditions. The outcome of this exercise office. [11715/07] should describe the mix and level of facilities that should be aspired to at national level (including 192. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Arts, meeting our high performance needs) at our main Sport and Tourism if he will report on the nation- cities; at smaller but regionally-important urban wide audit of sports facilities; and if this will be centres; and at a later stage, at local level. This completed by the time the Government leaves element of the strategy will greatly help in the office; and if he will make a statement on the completion of the audit. matter. [12001/07] By ascertaining and mapping what is already in place at a national and regional level, an Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. important part of developing a strategic approach O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. to future facility provision will be put in place, as 73 and 192 together. well as establishing the level of need that exists As I have informed the House on a number of in the sports sector and helping to determine occasions, the nationwide audit of sports facilities future priorities. has commenced and is being carried out in stages At the request of the London 2012 Task force, to help speed up the availability of information. the Department is also undertaking a separate Phase One is being carried out within my Depart- limited London 2012 sports infrastructural audit. ment and will establish a record of national and This will establish a list of facilities that are likely regional sports facilities. to attract Olympic and Paralympic training camps The work currently being undertaken is a data prior to London 2012. The audit will focus on uni- gathering exercise in conjunction with the main versities and national sports-specific facilities. sporting bodies and local authorities to identify the facilities for inclusion in this phase. My Department has compiled a list in excess of one Cricket World Cup. hundred sports facilities of national or regional 74. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for significance. Many of these have been funded Arts, Sport and Tourism the action the Govern- under the Sports Capital Programme since 1999 ment will take to recognise the achievements of and a considerable bank of information already the Irish cricket team in the world cup; and if he exists, although some of this information is not will make a statement on the matter. [11772/07] up to date and therefore an updating of data is being undertaken. Furthermore, details of facili- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. ties at third level educational institutions and O’Donoghue): I would like to put on record my swimming pools have also been included on this pride and delight at the outstanding performance inventory. Further engagement with the main of the Irish Team in qualifying for the Super sporting bodies, local authorities, facility owners Eight stage at the Cricket World Cup in the West and managers is being undertaken so that a com- Indies This is an unprecedented achievement for prehensive database on the range and nature of the Irish Cricket Team. Their impressive per- sporting facilities at national and regional level formances against Zimbabwe and in particular, can be completed. Pakistan has deservedly earned them a place in As stated previously, the enormity of complet- the coveted Super Eight of the World Cup. Their ing the complete audit of sports facilities should success has played a major role in raising the pro- not be underestimated and, given the experience file of cricket in Ireland. I congratulate the man- of other countries, is likely to take a number of ager Adrian Birell and his captain Trent Johnston years to complete. and wish them every success for the Super Eight The Programme for Government sets out a stage of the competition. commitment to put in place a national sports Since 1999, the Government has provided over facility strategy that will identify gaps in facility \1 million in funding, through the Irish Sports provision and set out an approach to fill these Council (ISC), to the Irish Cricket Union which gaps. A Steering Group has been appointed and is the National Governing Body for cricket. consultants have been engaged by my Depart- Included in this figure is the sum of \17,000 allo- 1353 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1354 cated in 2005 for the International Cricket same; and if he will make a statement on the Council (ICC) Trophy, a qualifying tournament matter. [11961/07] which was held in Ireland and through which the Irish team actually qualified for the World Cup Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. at which they are currently excelling. Also O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. included is \242,010 granted between 2006 and 76, 88 and 191 together. 2007 for the Cricket World Cup preparations. As the Deputy is aware the Government Funding to cricket from the ISC has been com- decided to proceed with the redevelopment of the plemented by funding from my Department for Abbey Theatre at George’s Dock on a Build, Fin- facilities and equipment under the Sports Capital ance, and Maintain (BFM) basis. At the same Programme. Since 2000, funding has been pro- time, the Government agreed to hold an inter- vided under the programme towards the national design competition for the new Abbey improvement of the facilities at cricket’s venue Theatre. for hosting international matches, the Clontarf The OPW is currently finalising the prep- Cricket Club, and for the establishment of the aration for the design competition. A competition national Centre of Excellence for the sport, at of this nature is a very complex one and takes North County Cricket Club in Balbriggan, Co. time to perfect. The technical documentation Dublin. must be very carefully specified and a design jury In addition, in consultation with the ISC and set up to select the winning design. I am sure the the Irish Cricket Union, a special provision of Deputy would agree, given the significance of this \254,000 was made available to improve the project, that time and care is vital in planning it. facilities of a number of cricket clubs for the host- The Government is committed to providing a ing of the ICC Trophy. In all, a total of \1.25 National Theatre of world class and this is not a million has been allocated under the Sports Capi- process which can be rushed. Once the winning tal Programme in the period 2000-2006. design has been selected the building will be pro- I look forward to continuing success for this cured on a BFM Public Private Partnership basis. outstanding Irish team in the major challenges It is expected that the planning and procurement facing them in the Super Eight stage of the World arrangements will take a further 12 months to Cup and to an enduring legacy for the promotion finalise and the building will take 18 months to and development of cricket in Ireland in the years complete. to come. I intend to mark their historic achieve- Given the timescale involved in procuring a ment in a suitable manner at an appropriate time. new National Theatre, the National Theatre is expected to remain in situ for some time yet. Question No. 75 answered with No. 67. Much of the equipment at the Abbey has become obsolete and age worn. The works being carried out are essential from a customer service and a Abbey Theatre. health and safety perspective and I am satisfied 76. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for that the works are necessary. The Abbey Theatre Arts, Sport and Tourism the reason for the delay Board is independent of me in decisions of this in advertising the international design compe- nature. I understand in any event that the seating tition for the proposed new Abbey Theatre; and installation is modular; it can be reassembled if he will make a statement on the matter. elsewhere, if necessary. Just because the Abbey [11747/07] is due to be relocated is not sufficient reason to allow our National Theatre to fall into disrepair. 88. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the position in regard to the Tourism Industry. proposed move of the Abbey Theatre to a new 77. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Arts, building at George’s Dock; his views on whether Sport and Tourism if his Department has exam- it is justifiable for the Abbey to spend almost ined the possibility of establishing a National \ 750,000 revamping its auditorium at a time when Institute for Tourist Innovation; and if he will the move to George’s Dock is being finalised; if make a statement on the matter. [11745/07] he has had discussions with the Abbey regarding same; and if he will make a statement on the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. matter. [11737/07] O’Donoghue): In recent years, innovation has emerged as a key consideration for most agencies 191. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Arts, involved in enterprise development, including the Sport and Tourism the position in regard to the key tourism agencies, Fa´ilte Ireland and Tourism proposed move of the Abbey Theatre to a new Ireland. This has been explicitly recognised by building at George’s Dock; his views on whether the Government which is providing over 6 billion it is justifiable for the Abbey to spend almost euro for Science Technology and Innovation \750,000 revamping its auditorium at a time when under the Enterprise, Science and Innovation the move to George’s Dock is being finalised; if Priority of the National Development Plan. It is he has had discussions with the Abbey regarding the goal of the strategy that Irish business should, 1355 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1356

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] value and avoid overlap or duplication with over the life of the NDP, become renowned for established agencies elsewhere. the excellence of its research and at the forefront Swimming Pool Projects. of generating and using new knowledge for economic and social progress, within an innovation 78. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Arts, driven culture. Sport and Tourism the number of public swimming pools in the north city and County Dublin There has been a high level of innovation in area; the proposals for new pools; and if he will tourism policy in recent years with the complete make a statement on the matter. [11531/07] overhaul of the institutional arrangements for the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. implementation of policy, the Report of the O’Donoghue): Funding is provided by my Tourism Policy Review Group and the develop- Department to local authorities towards the capi- ment of a range of programmes and initiatives in tal costs of a new or replacement public swim- product development, marketing and training. ming pool or the refurbishment of an existing Last month I launched Fa´ilte Ireland’s Tourism pool under the terms of the Local Authority Product Development Strategy for the period Swimming Pool Programme. The Programme 2007-2013. The strategy is a framework to guide provides for a maximum grant of \3.8million. public and private investment in tourism over the Where a project is being undertaken by an organ- next seven years. The Tourism Product Develop- isation other than a local authority, the proposal ment Review Group recommends the setting up must be considered, supported and submitted by of a National Centre for Innovation in Tourism the local authority. Before supporting such a pro- that will fund ongoing applied research, support ject, the local authority would have to be satisfied innovation and entrepreneurship in tourism that the proposal is viable, that the balance of SMEs, and embed a culture of innovation in the funding required to complete the project is avail- tourism industry. able and that the project when completed, would have a suitable level of public access. Conse- As part of a phased implementation of the new quently, the question of the location or operation product development strategy, Fa´ilte Ireland is of public swimming pools in any particular area considering this recommendation and is under- is a matter in the first instance for the relevant taking a preliminary examination of the proposal, local authority. taking into account the activities and operations Under the current round of the Local Auth- of a number of other relevant bodies and edu- ority Swimming Pool Programme, which closed cational institutions already working in this area. to applicants on 31st July, 2000, the following pro- In this regard it is important that any proposed jects in the Dublin area have been or are being National Centre for Innovation is seen to add dealt with:

Pool Project Status Funding allocated

Finglas (replacement pool) Completed 3.8 Ballymun (replacement pool) Completed 3.8 Ballyfermot (replacement pool) Under construction 3.8 Jobstown (new) Completed 3.8 Clondalkin (replacement) Under construction 3.8 St Michael’s House (new) Under construction 3.7 Skerries (new) Preparing contract documents * Glenalbyn (refurbishment) Preparing contract documents * Dundrum (replacement) Preparing tender documents * St Joseph’s School for Deaf Boys (refurbishment) Preparing preliminary report * *Grant aid is formally allocated at the stage when the tender for the project is approved.

The priority under the current round of the Local Programme at present. The Review is examining, Authority Swimming Pool Programme is to con- among other things, how the programme has tinue to support those projects remaining within worked to date and what changes, if any, are the programme. Of the 57 projects with the cur- required to ensure its effective and efficient deliv- rent round, 23 have been completed, 18 are under ery. The Review is currently being finalised and construction or about to start construction, 3 are it is my intention to publish it as soon as possible. out to tender and the remaining 13 are at various Following consideration of the recommendations stages in the process. in the review it is my intention to launch a new My Department is completing an Expenditure round of the Local Authority Swimming Pool Review of the Local Authority Swimming Pool Programme. When the Programme is re-opened, 1357 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1358 it will be open to all local authorities, including that there would be considerable cost impli- Dublin City Council and Fingal County Council cations and further delays if the stadium had to to submit applications under the terms that will be adjusted to cater for gaelic games; the dis- apply. cussions he has had with either the FAI or the GAA with a view to resolving the dispute; and if Arts Plan. he will make a statement on the matter. [11742/07] 79. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if his attention has been Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. drawn to the National Economic and Social O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. Forum’s Arts, Cultural Inclusion and Social 81, 86 and 89 together. Cohesion Report, January 2007; his views on its In response to approaches from South Dublin recommendations for a broad range of measures County Council, the FAI and Shamrock Rovers and initiatives to help more people participate in FC, I gave a commitment on behalf of the the arts; the action he will take following this Government that funding would be provided report; and if he will make a statement on the towards the completion of a soccer stadium in matter. [11727/07] Tallaght. The specifications for the stadium is that it would be capable of hosting soccer fixtures and 80. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Arts, that it would provide capacity for 6,000 seated Sport and Tourism his views on the findings of spectators and this capacity is provided for under the recent National Economic and Social Forum the planning approval. In supporting the pro- Report, The Arts, Cultural Inclusion and Social vision of a soccer stadium at Tallaght, I am seek- Cohesion which showed that there are major dif- ing to bring to completion a long-standing plan ferences in levels of participation in the arts, for a soccer stadium on this site and to fulfil the reflecting major inequalities in society here in Government’s undertaking to provide soccer terms of education, class, income and age; and if facilities. he will make a statement on the matter. Under the Sports Capital Programme, my [11756/07] Department allocated funding of \2.57m towards this project over the 3 years 2000 to 2002. \2.44m Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. has already been provided to Shamrock Rovers O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. Stadium Development Committee based on 79 and 80 together. work, carried out prior to the end of 2002. The I refer the Deputy to my answer given earlier FAI via Shamrock Rovers FC provided \457,000 today to Priority PQ 61. towards this stage of the project. It is my understanding that, to accommodate a Sports Stadium. full size senior GAA pitch in the available space 81. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Arts, and taking into account the works already com- Sport and Tourism if he will review his decision pleted on the site, significant changes would have to grant funding for a 6,000 seat stadium in to be made to the existing plans, which would Tallaght only if the facility is used for soccer impact on the approved capacity for the stadium, exclusively; if his attention has been drawn to the cause further delays and increase costs. recent request to the High Court by a local GAA I have discussed the matter with the GAA at club to bring a legal challenge to South Dublin both national and Dublin County Board level on County Council’s ruling on the matter; the posi- a number of occasions and my Department has tion of this issue; and if he will make a statement had meetings with senior officials of the South on the matter. [11729/07] Dublin County Council, the FAI and the GAA in seeking to progress the project. I am deeply disappointed at the continuing impediment that 86. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Arts, is delaying this project and which could have Sport and Tourism if his attention has been serious additional cost implications for its drawn to recent comments from the president of development. the GAA that the association is disappointed and I have no problem with the principle of unhappy at the Government’s refusal to allow Tallaght stadium being made available to other gaelic games to be played in the proposed sports codes, including GAA , once the stadium is com- stadium in Tallaght; his views on these comments; pleted to soccer specifications and the Govern- and if he will make a statement on the matter. ment commitment to the FAI and Shamrock [11730/07] Rovers can be honoured. I hope that South Dublin County Council will soon be in a position 89. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Arts, to make progress and complete this stadium in a Sport and Tourism his views on the completion timely and cost effective manner. of the Shamrock Rovers stadium in Tallaght; if it remains his position as set out in reply to an Tourism Industry. adjournment debate on 9 February 2006, that the stadium should be used primarily for soccer and 82. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- 1359 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1360

[Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin.] Plan, 2007-13. I am particularly pleased that the ster for Arts, Sport and Tourism the main NDP allocation of \800m for tourism — \317m elements of the new Fa´ilte Ireland seven year of which is earmarked for product development tourism programme; the shortcomings in the and infrastructure including provision for the PPP tourist industry here that the report has iden- funded capital cost of the National Conference tified; the initiatives that will be taken during the Centre — will enable essential development seven year period to develop tourism here; and if under the new product strategy to be activated he will make a statement on the matter. this year. It will also significantly ramp up support [11738/07] available for tourism product development compared with the level of funding provided under Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. the previous NDP. A capital financial envelope O’Donoghue): On 15 February last, Failte of close to \14m will be available this year to help Ireland published a seven year strategy to guide launch the new strategy. In addition, many of the public and private sector investment in tourism. other NDP programmes will also deliver The strategy was drawn up by an expert Review improvements in environmental and other infra- group, representing a cross section of tourism structure recommended by Fa´ilte Ireland. interests from both the public and private sectors. In preparing its recommendations, the group National Conference Centre. undertook a comprehensive analysis of international trends and of the responses of our com- 83. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Arts, petitors; it examined product opportunities; and Sport and Tourism the position in regard to the it undertook a very detailed assessment of the development of the National Conference Centre quality and the relevance of the Irish tourism including the timetable for its construction; and if product offering, including its ‘fitness for pur- he will make a statement on the matter. pose’, in today’s volatile marketplace. [11741/07] The Review group carried out a national tourism product audit to assess the quantity and qual- 85. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Arts, ity of the tourism product. The analysis showed Sport and Tourism when the contract for the that with selective investment the Irish tourism National Conference Centre at Spencer Dock will product has the potential to enable the industry be awarded; the expected timescale for construc- to substantially expand its market share. tion; and if he will make a statement on the The analysis recommended that support for matter. [11746/07] tourism product development should be market driven, with less of a focus on accommodation, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. other than in specified circumstances. More O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. investment is needed in tourism infrastructure 83 and 85 together. and attractions. Investment is also needed in As I have informed the House, most recently major new events and other tourism products that on 15 February, 2007, Spencer Dock Inter- will attract visitors. national Conference Centre Consortium has been The strategy proposes a framework and policy appointed Preferred Tenderer for the provision guidance for the long-term development of the of a National Conference Centre in Dublin. tourism product. The 67 recommendations cover The Centre is being procured under a Public areas that include: Private Partnership process under the auspices of the Office of Public Works — the Contracting • Capital investment in the hard tourism Authority. During the Preferred Tenderer phase product; the Consortium is required to develop and • Infrastructure and services relevant to provide the full range of project documents for tourists; review and approval by the Contracting Auth- • The physical environment; ority. The current expectation is that the contract will be awarded within the coming weeks. It is • Packaging and presentation; and envisaged that site enabling and related works in • Expanding the skills and capability of preparation for construction would commence people working in the tourism industry. shortly thereafter and that the Centre would be operational some 40 months later. The recommended proposals fall into two areas: I am delighted that delivery of another major firstly a series of actions around the broader tour- commitment in the Programme for Government ism agenda including protecting and managing may now be about to become a reality. the physical environment, enhancing access to and around the country and improving access to Tourism Promotion. cultural heritage and secondly a series of funding supports. 84. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for The key recommendations of the strategy are Arts, Sport and Tourism if he will request Tour- reflected in the tourism programme announced ism Ireland to launch a major marketing plan for in the recently published National Development the Shannon and western region following the 1361 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1362 expected bilateral agreement between the USA table for the construction of the stadium follow- and Europe; and if he will make a statement on ing the outcome of the planning appeals process; the matter. [11748/07] and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11739/07] 102. Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if the implications of the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. implementation of the US/EU Open Skies agree- O’Donoghue): I refer the Deputy to my reply to ment for the mid-west and western seaboard has Priority Question No 62 given by me in the been fully considered by his Department and the House today. tourism agencies that he has direct responsibility for; and if he will make a statement on the Arts Funding. matter. [11752/07] 91. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Sport and Tourism the extent to which he can O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. or will offer grants or other assistance to various 84 and 102 together. musical, arts or theatrical groups that have estab- I would refer the Deputies to my detailed reply lished a good track record for putting on local to the Priority Question No. 64 on this subject productions in towns and villages throughout the today. country; if he has proposals to assist such groups having particular regard to their invaluable rec- Question No. 85 answered with Question reational and cultural contribution; and if he will No. 83. make a statement on the matter. [11769/07]

Question No. 86 answered with Question Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. No. 81. O’Donoghue): Responsibility for the promotion of the arts at all levels throughout the country is Arts Funding. devolved to the Arts Council, a State body funded by my Department. Further details of 87. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Arts, funding programmes provided by the Arts Sport and Tourism his views on providing Council is available on their website www.arts- increased funding to the National Chamber Choir council.ie. following reductions of financial support for the Faílte Ireland allocates funding to assist choir from other sources; if his attention has been festivals/cultural events through its Festivals and drawn to the generally low salaries paid to Cultural Events Initiative. Further details on the members of the choir; and if he will make a state- initiative is available on the Faílte Ireland website ment on the matter. [11735/07] www.ireland.ie. Both the Arts Council and Faílte Ireland are independent of my Department in Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. relation to their day-to-day operations and fund- O’Donoghue): I am aware of the situation cur- ing decisions. rently faced by the National Chamber Choir (NCC). However, the main channel of State support to the NCC is the Arts Council. The Arts Crime Levels. Council under the Arts Act, 2003, is statutorily 92. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Arts, independent and I have no role to play in its Sport and Tourism if his attention has been funding decisions. drawn to the fact that there was an increase of I understand that the Arts Council is highly 6% in the number of tourists who were victims of supportive of the National Chamber Choir and crime here in 2006 compared with 2005 as regards them as an important element of the reported to the Irish Tourist Assistance Service; music infrastructure. Indeed funding to the Choir the action he will take to address this issue; and from the Arts Council has increased significantly if he will make a statement on the matter. \ \ in recent years, from 175,000 in 2001 to 345,000 [11770/07] in 2007 an increase of over 97%. This underlines the Council’s commitment to the NCC. Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. O’Donoghue): Crime and measures to prevent Question No. 88 answered with Question and combat it are, as the Deputy is aware, prop- No. 76. erly matters for my colleague, the Minister for Justice Equality and Law Reform. Question No. 89 answered with Question It is important to be clear that the 6% increase No. 81. referred to by the Deputy is in the number of referrals to the Service, primarily from the Stadium Redevelopment. Gardaı´. In its Report, the Service makes it plain 90. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Arts, that it will continue its awareness raising work Sport and Tourism the position in regard to the with the Gardaı´ to “increase the number of redevelopment of Lansdowne Road; the time- referrals”. 1363 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1364

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] Gaeltacht, and the Islands, and IBEC, would fund The referrals are of visitors from abroad who the costs arising on a 50:50 basis for 3 years. have been victims of crime. The figures do not In November 2002 the Board submitted a draft specify the length of stay of these visitors and the strategic plan for the development of the music noted increase could also refer to the fact that industry in Ireland. This draft strategy was care- visitors and agencies are now more aware of the fully considered in my Department, but the end work and assistance provided by ITAS for conclusion was that it was not satisfactorily dem- tourists. onstrated that the benefits accruing from the suite While the overwhelming majority of our visit- of programmes and activities proposed by the ors do not encounter crime, I fully subscribe to interim Board would be commensurate with the the view that there is no acceptable level of crime costs involved. Accordingly, it was decided not to and that one outrage is one too many. proceed to statutory establishment, and the All of us are aware of the impact a crime can Board was not renewed beyond its initial three- have on a person but tourists are even more vul- year term of office. nerable. They are in a strange environment and The main channel through which State aid is their problems can be compounded by language, provided to the arts is through the Arts Council cultural and legal issues. and all music genres continue to fall within its Although the remit of the Irish Tourist Assist- remit. This year, I was pleased to be in a position ance Service is not in the area of crime preven- to make an amount of \80m available to the Arts tion, it works closely with the Gardaı´ with whom Council to support all areas of the arts, includ- it has an excellent, co-operative relationship. ing music. The Irish Tourist Assistance Service booklet — Helping Tourist Victims of Crime — is available Film Industry Development. in Garda Stations, Tourist Offices and car rental 94. Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Arts, companies. 40,000 copies of the booklet were dis- Sport and Tourism his views on the decline in the tributed to tourists, through the tourism industry, competitiveness of the Irish film industry and the in 2006. I recently launched an ITAS DVD for fact that major productions are going elsewhere; distribution across the country which contains the measures he will put in place to make Ireland safety tips for tourists along with relevant infor- an attractive location for film production; and if mation on where to access assistance. he will make a statement on the matter. The Service, which is now known as Irish Tour- [11771/07] ist Assistance Service, was launched in 1994 and, since that time, has assisted over 8,000 visitors. It 198. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, may not be widely known but Ireland is seen as Sport and Tourism the extent to which he pro- a ‘best practice’ model in Europe in terms of the poses to enhance the development of the film support it provides tourists in the aftermath of industry here; and if he will make a statement on crime. the matter. [12093/07]

Music Board. Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. 93. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Arts, O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. Sport and Tourism the reason he has not estab- 94 and 198 together. lished the Music Board as promised in the 2002 I wish to refer the Deputy to my previous Programme for Government; and if he will make replies of 26th October and 30th November 2006, a statement on the matter. [11764/07] and of 15th February and 6th March 2007 regarding the issues surrounding the present status of Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. film-making in the State. O’Donoghue): The Music Board of Ireland was established on an interim basis in May, 2001 by Sport and Recreational Development. the then Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht, 95. Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Arts, and the Islands, Sı´le de Valera, T.D. Sport and Tourism the position regarding the The Mandate given to the Board was: plans to capitalise on the staging of the 2012 • to act as a forum for the industry; Olympics in London by updating, modernising and developing sporting facilities here; and if he • to devise and actively promote strategic will make a statement on the matter. [11740/07] policies for the development of the industry and the maximisation of its contribution to Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. the national economy; O’Donoghue): With London 2012 fast approach- ing, athletes and teams from other countries may • to assist Government and its agencies in consider using Ireland as a base to prepare and their efforts to develop the industry. train in the years prior to the Olympic and Para- The interim Board was established on the basis lympic Games in London in 2012. Ireland pos- that the then Department of Arts, Heritage, sesses the advantages of having the same climatic 1365 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1366 conditions and being in the same time zone as from this decision; and if he will make a state- London, as well as being within an hour by air ment on the matter. [11736/07] travel. Furthermore, this country will avoid most of the media hype that one often finds in the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. host country. O’Donoghue): The Arts Act 2003 gives the Mini- In order to ensure that Ireland benefits from ster for Arts, Sport and Tourism responsibility for the proximity of the Games, I established a Task promoting the arts within and outside of the Force in August 2006 comprising high level rep- State, thus recognising the international dimen- resentatives from the sporting, business, tourism sion of my remit. and cultural sectors. This group is working to In recognition of the changed legislative envir- ensure that Ireland maximises the benefits arising onment, new mechanisms for the promotion and from the proximity of the London 2012 Olympic support of Irish art and artists abroad were put in and Paralympic Games in the areas of training place in February, 2005, when a new non-statu- camps for athletes, tourism, business and cul- tory body (Culture Ireland) was established, tural opportunities. under the aegis of my Department. In relation to training camps specifically; if Since its establishment on a non-statutory Ireland is to be attractive to potential participat- basis, Culture Ireland conclusively demonstrated ing athletes, access to high quality sporting and that there is an important and substantial job to ancillary facilities must be available. In this be done in this area, and that the optimal way to regard, my Department has undertaken a London do it effectively is through a State agency inde- 2012 sports infrastructural survey of facilities that pendent of its parent Department. The advice of might be suitable to develop to meet the training the Attorney General is that a statutory body is needs of overseas teams preparing for 2012. the option which would most closely meet the National Governing Bodies of Sport and third requirements, i.e., it would have a separate legal level institutions have been contacted in order to identity, it could enter into contracts on its own establish the type, range and suitability of the authority, and have an independent responsibility sports facilities available for this purpose. for disbursement of funds. Accordingly, the What is currently being undertaken therefore Government authorised me to proceed with the is a data gathering exercise to gauge the level of preparation of legislation to establish the agency facilities Ireland has to offer to potential visiting on a statutory basis. athletes. This survey process is being completed The international context provides a whole in line with the standards set out by the London additional layer of opportunities for Irish artists. Organising Committee for the Olympic Games It provides new opportunities for exhibition and (LOCOG). We will then have a clearer picture of performances, and allows for very beneficial the facilities likely to be attractive to participating cross-fertilisation and sharing of experience and athletes in the build-up to London 2012 and my artistic expression with overseas counterparts. Department will then examine whether invest- Commercially, it opens up new markets that can ment may be required to bring these facilities up prove extremely valuable. Effective promotion of to the required standard. Any expenditure on Irish arts in the international context also has facilities will be aimed not only at attracting very significant benefits in promoting Ireland’s teams but primarily at ensuring a lasting legacy image abroad, which, in turn, can develop for Irish athletes and communities. important diplomatic relationships, highlight our profile abroad, and enhance our relations with Stadium Redevelopment. other peoples and cultures. 96. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Arts, The draft heads of legislation for the establish- Sport and Tourism the possible commencement ment of Culture Ireland on a statutory basis are date for the new stadium at Lansdowne Road; currently being prepared in my Department. and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11755/07] Sports Funding. 98. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Arts, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Sport and Tourism the position regarding the O’Donoghue): I refer the Deputy to my reply to recent round of negotiations between the GPA, Priority Question No 62 given by me in the the GAA and the Government in regard to fund- House today. ing for player welfare; if he will clarify the amount of money that will be made available for Culture Ireland. this purpose; when a final decision will be made; 97. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Arts, and if he will make a statement on the matter. Sport and Tourism if he will account for the [11733/07] recent Government decision to make Culture Ireland an independent statutory body; the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. potential benefits for the arts that will follow O’Donoghue): As I have previously indicated, I 1367 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1368

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] of the St Patrick’s Day celebrations in London. have had a number of meetings with both the St. Patrick’s Day has traditionally signalled the Gaelic Players Association (GPA) and the GAA start of the tourism season in Ireland and the at which player welfare issues for inter-county international celebrations at this time afford a players were discussed. unique opportunity to promote tourism to the At these meetings and in subsequent letters to island of Ireland. both the GPA and the GAA, I have set out the Great Britain remains Ireland’s most important position of the Government on this issue. I do not overseas tourism market and at the invitation of intend to provide direct funding to meet the costs the Mayor of London, Mr Ken Livingstone, I either of direct grants to GAA players or of attended the St Patrick’s Festival Dinner as Guest player welfare policies. This responsibility rests of Honour on the 17th March in the Savoy Hotel. with the GAA in the same manner as similar On 18 March, I attended mass at the London player welfare issues in other sports must be dealt Irish Centre following which I watched the with by the responsible National Governing Body London St Patrick’s Day Parade from the Trafal- of Sport. In this context it is the exclusive pre- gar Square stage in the company of the Mayor rogative of the Association to decide how it man- of London. I also attended the Ireland Holiday ages and funds such issues and I do not intend to Pavilion organised by Tourism Ireland at Trafal- influence the GAA as to the nature or cost of any gar Square on 18 March. new player welfare supports it may introduce. I am also pleased to inform the House that Cul- I have previously indicated, however, that in ture Ireland provided \35,000 to Bui Bolg to par- the event that agreement is reached between the ticipate in two London parades and a further GAA and the GPA on additional player welfare \15,000 to the Greater London Authority for a supports, I would be prepared to provide programme of Irish events at Leicester Square. additional funding to the GAA on an annual basis, either through the existing Sports Capital Question No. 100 answered with Question Programme in respect of prioritised infrastructu- No. 72. ral projects or through additional funding by the Irish Sports Council in respect of Games develop- Lottery Funding. ment or a combination of both. 101. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Any moneys provided under these programmes Arts, Sport and Tourism if consideration has would have the effect of freeing up existing been given to establishing an independent body moneys within the Association to meet the to administer lottery funding taking it out of the additional costs to the Association of agreed political arena; the reason this has not occurred player welfare issues. While I have indicated that to date; and if he will make a statement on the an amount of \5 million could be set aside, it matter. [11680/07] would be premature to lock into any particular funding mechanism or formally commit to any Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. specific amount of such funding until such time O’Donoghue): The sports capital programme, as detailed costed proposals have been submitted which is administered by my Department, allo- to me by the GAA under the headings of infra- cates funding to sporting and community organis- structure and games development and considered ations at local, regional and national level by my Department. As any financial support to throughout the country. The programme is adver- be provided by my Department would be con- tised on an annual basis. sidered in the context of the additional costs to I have no plans to transfer responsibility for the the GAA of new player welfare supports, I would allocation of this funding to an independent auth- have to be satisfied as to the extent and nature ority. I believe that the current arrangements for of such supports taking into account the ultimate administering the sports capital programme, responsibility of the GAA for funding such sup- which have been applied by successive govern- ports and in the context of the Government’s ments over many years, have been extremely suc- national sport policy. cessful in ensuring that the programme is respon- sive to local needs. Ministerial Travel. It is entirely appropriate that the Minister for 99. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport should be in a position to use this important Sport and Tourism if he will provide details of his instrument of sporting policy to achieve objec- recent visit to London for the St. Patrick’s Day tives such as supporting projects of particular 2007 parade and celebrations; and if he will make local or regional significance or encouraging the a statement on the matter. [11728/07] development of as many sports as possible. Over the period 1998-2006 inclusive, \483 million has Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. been allocated in sports capital funding in 5,781 O’Donoghue): I represented the Government at projects. This massive investment in the creation a number of events on 17 and 18 March as part of a sporting infrastructure is now yielding 1369 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1370 benefits both in terms of local community devel- application will receive a score, which will give its opments and increased participation in sport. The order of priority within its own county. scheme is administered in accordance with pre- Recommendations will then be made to me determined eligibility criteria, all of which must regarding provisional allocations for each county, be satisfied before projects may access funding based on the most recent Census of Population allocated to them. figures. I am satisfied that the programme achieve I would remind the Deputy that as Minister for a balanced geographical spread of funds through- Arts, Sport and Tourism, I am directly account- out the country, while also affording priority to abletoDa´il E´ ireann for the operation of the projects in areas of social and economic dis- sports capital programme. This accountability is advantage. ongoing and finds expression, for example, I intend to announce the grant allocations for through parliamentary questions, adjournment the 2007 programme as soon as possible after the debates, estimates debates and engagement with assessment and recommendation processes has Da´il Committees. This is a feature which would been completed. be notably absent were the administration of the sports capital programme to be made the Swimming Pool Projects. responsibility of an independent board. Apart from the obvious issue of how one determines 104. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Arts, ‘independence’, experience elsewhere has shown Sport and Tourism the progress made in provid- that decisions by independent boards do not ing a public swimming pool in always receive universal acceptance. Where a Ballybofey/Stranorlar; and if he will make a state- grant scheme attracts a level of applications well ment on the matter. [7198/07] in excess of available funding, as is the case with the sports capital programme, unsuccessful appli- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. cants will always experience an understandable O’Donoghue): Under the Local Authority Swim- sense of disappointment whatever the decision- ming Pool Programme there are four stages in a making process. swimming pool project. These, in order of progress, are: Feasibility Study/Preliminary Report; Question No. 102 answered with Question Contract Documents; Tender and Construction. No. 84. I understand that Donegal County Council has recently received a draft Preliminary Report on 103. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Arts, the swimming pool project from their consultants, Sport and Tourism the methodology that will be which is under consideration, and that the used to ensure an equitable distribution of lottery finalised Preliminary Report is to be submitted to funding for 2007; the role the census of popu- my Department in the next month. lation will play; the means of assessment for defi- The Council has also advanced the Part 8 Plan- cits in facilities that are available; and if he will ning application for the project to the public con- make a statement on the matter. [11679/07] sultation stage this month. I am advised that the strategy underlying the development of the pro- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. ject is to maximise the potential for the sharing O’Donoghue): The sports capital programme of physical and management facilities with other allocates funding to sporting and to voluntary and sports organisations in the area. community organisations at local, regional and national level throughout the country. The prog- Official Languages. ramme is advertised on an annual basis. Applications for funding under the 2007 prog- 105. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the lang- ramme were invited through advertisements in uages in which his Department’s telephone mess- the Press on October 15th and 16th last. The clos- ages are recorded; and if his Department’s mess- ing date for receipt of applications was November ages include a version in the Irish language. 24th 2006. All applications received before the [11896/07] deadline are currently being evaluated on an individual basis by my Department in accordance The Taoiseach: My Department’s switch with a detailed set of assessment criteria, which operates from Monday to Friday, 9.00 am to 7.00 are outlined in the guidelines, terms and con- pm. There is no main automated telephone mess- ditions of the programme. age for the Department, as calls are taken by The assessment process takes into account switchboard staff who provide a high standard of factors such as the existing level of facilities in an service in Irish and English. Indeed, in the area, the number and quality of the applications Department’s Official Languages Scheme, we received, the amount of funding being sought by state that we will request Eircom, who provide each applicant and the strategic positioning of the switchboard staff, to ensure that such staff major facilities that may be required. Following continue to have a good level of fluency in Irish. the assessment process outlined above, each Outside normal hours, calls are dealt with by 1371 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1372

[The Taoiseach.] ory impact assessment that was carried out on this security staff rather than by an automated proposal; and if he will make a statement on the message. matter. [11919/07] There is a facility for staff to create customised voicemail messages in any language on their Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Direct Dial number and this facility is used by Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take some members of staff. Questions Nos. 107 and 108 together. The Department of Community, Rural and The Private Security Authority, established Gaeltacht Affairs have prepared draft regulations under the Private Security Services Act 2004, is dealing with, amongst other things, recorded oral the regulatory body with responsibility for reg- announcements. We are currently working to ulating and licensing the private security industry ensure that we are ready to meet all the require- in the State. The Authority is independent in the ments of these regulations, when they come into exercise of its statutory functions. The Board of force. the Authority is comprised of industry, employee and employer representatives and is responsible Ministerial Appointments. for implementing the legislation and developing policy in this area. 106. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Taoiseach the I am informed that the licensing of contractors number of appointments to State boards, State installing intruder alarms commenced on 1 bodies or other like entities which he envisages August 2006. In the interest of creating an equit- making or nominating in the period 26 March able licensing regime which acknowledges the dif- 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify any such fering sizes of different businesses, the Board board, body or entity involved; and if he will agreed to introduce a sliding scale of licence fees make a statement on the matter. [11982/07] for contractors, depending on turnover. For The Taoiseach: The National Economic and smaller businesses the total licence and administration fee, for a licence lasting two years, is Social Development Office (NESDO) was estab- \ lished on a statutory basis on 1 January, 2007. 2,250. Nominations have been sought from the Social Regulation of the private security industry is Partners and appointments to the constituent being carried out by the Authority on a phased bodies [National Economic and Social Council basis in full consultation with the industry and (NESC), National Economic and Social Forum key stakeholders. The private security industry (NESF) and the National Centre for Partnership itself supports regulation and had actively cam- and Performance (NCPP)] will be made once that paigned for it for many years. The provision of a process is complete. regulatory environment for the industry will Following on from the Report of the Task increase confidence in its operation. It is the case, Force on Active Citizenship, an Active Citizen- however, that regulation will lead to some cost ship Office will be established, with an Implemen- implications for operators in the various sectors. tation Steering Group comprising senior rep- Ultimately, it is the industry and the consumer resentatives from relevant sectors to oversee the who will benefit from the licensing regime intro- implementation of the recommendations con- duced by the PSA. tained in the report. In relation to regulatory impact, Government There are no further appointments to other approval of the heads of the Private Security State boards or bodies under the aegis of my Services Bill 2001 — and the legislative process Department falling to be made before 31 May, which lead to the Private Security Services Act 2007. 2004 — predated the introduction of Regulatory Impact Assessment. However, I am assured that Security Services. the Private Security Authority is conscious of its responsibility to regulate in a way that promotes 107. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Tańaiste and positive change in the industry without overbur- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if dening it. he will urgently assist a person (details supplied) in Dublin 9; if he will take action regarding the Garda Equipment. new inspectorate costs which are damaging for a small operator; and if he will act on this 109. Ms Harkin asked the Tańaiste and Mini- matter. [11832/07] ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the percentage of Garda stations that have intoxiliz- 108. Mr. Bruton asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ers on their premises; and if he will make a state- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his ment on the matter. [11802/07] attention has been drawn to the fact that it will cost compliant alarm installers \2,000 to \3,000 Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and to continue to service and maintain alarm systems Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The approval, test- under the Private Security Authority; the regulat- ing and supply of evidential breath testing instru- 1373 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1374 ments to the Garda Sıóchańa is a matter for the district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to Medical Bureau of Road Safety, which also pro- 2006; and if he will make a statement on the vides training to An Garda Sıóchańa in their use. matter. [11841/07] The MBRS has responsibility for the continuing forensic integrity of the instruments. 113. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- I am informed by the Garda authorities that ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the evidential breath testing instruments are cur- number of headline crimes which were reported; rently installed in 64 Garda locations, including the number which were detected in the Enniscor- all Divisional Headquarters Garda stations as thy district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to well as other stations where they are available to 2006; and if he will make a statement on the all members of An Garda Sıóchańa on a 24-hour matter. [11842/07] basis, every day of the year. The installation of further evidential breath testing instruments is 114. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- currently under consideration. ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the These instruments, which determine the level number of headline crimes which were reported; of alcohol for evidential purposes, are not to be the number which were detected in the Gorey confused with other instruments which determine district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to the presence of alcohol and which are typically 2006; and if he will make a statement on the deployed at roadside checkpoints. matter. [11843/07]

Visa Applications. Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and 110. Mr. Costello asked the Tańaiste and Mini- Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his Questions Nos. 111 to 114, inclusive, together. attention has been drawn to the fact that a person Following the submission to me in 2004 of a (details supplied) has been on hunger strike for a report and recommendations by an expert group period of time, that they wish to receive a visa to on crime statistics, I decided that the compilation visit their spouse and family and that they are still and publication of crime statistics should be taken awaiting a decision on their application for refu- over by the Central Statistics Office, as the gee status; and if he will make a statement on the national statistical agency, from the Garda Sıóch- matter. [11833/07] ańa. The Garda Sıóchańa Act, 2005 consequently makes provision for this and the CSO has estab- Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and lished a dedicated unit for this purpose. Follow- Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): It is not the prac- ing the setting up of the necessary technical tice to comment in detail on an individual asylum systems and auditing of the data from which the application or on any other issues arising in con- statistics are compiled, I am pleased to note that nection with an application. the CSO is now compiling and publishing crimi- As the Deputy will be aware, applications for nal statistics and has published provisional head- refugee status in the State are determined by an line crime statistics for the third and fourth quar- independent process comprising the Office of the ters of 2006. In addition, it has compiled and Refugee Applications Commissioner and the published a series of quarterly and annual statis- Refugee Appeals Tribunal which make recom- tics for the period starting with the first quarter mendations to the Minister for Justice, Equality of 2003. I understand that the CSO are examining and Law Reform on whether such status should how the crime statistics published might be be granted. expanded and made more comprehensive. A final decision on this application will be Headline crime statistics for 2000-2002 for the made on receipt of the decision of the Refugee Garda Division of Wexford/Wicklow, which Appeals Tribunal. includes the Garda Districts of Wexford, New Ross, Enniscorthy and Gorey, are contained in Crime Levels. the relevant Garda Annual Reports, copies of 111. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- which are available in the Oireachtas Library. I ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the have requested the CSO to provide the infor- number of headline crimes which were reported; mation sought by the Deputy directly to him. the number which were detected in the Wexford district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to 115. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- 2006; and if he will make a statement on the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the matter. [11840/07] number of robberies and aggravated burglaries where firearms were used which were reported; 112. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- the number which were detected in the Wexford ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to number of headline crimes which were reported; 2006; and if he will make a statement on the the number which were detected in the New Ross matter. [11844/07] 1375 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1376

116. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- 119. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of robberies and aggravated burglaries number of robberies reported and the number where firearms were used which were reported; detected in the Wexford district, County Wexford the number which were detected in the New Ross in the years 2000 to 2006; and if he will make a district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to statement on the matter. [11848/07] 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11845/07] 120. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the 117. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- number of robberies reported and the number ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the detected in the New Ross district, County number of robberies and aggravated burglaries Wexford in the years 2000 to 2006; and if he will where firearms were used which were reported; make a statement on the matter. [11849/07] the number which were detected in the Enniscor- thy district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to 121. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- 2006; and if he will make a statement on the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the matter. [11846/07] number of robberies reported and the number detected in the Enniscorthy district, County 118. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- Wexford in the years 2000 to 2006; and if he will ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the make a statement on the matter. [11850/07] number of robberies and aggravated burglaries where firearms were used which were reported; 122. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- the number which were detected in the Gorey ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the district, County Wexford in the years 2000 to number of robberies reported and the number 2006; and if he will make a statement on the detected in the Gorey district, County Wexford matter. [11847/07] in the years 2000 to 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11851/07] Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Questions Nos. 115 to 118, inclusive, together. Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Questions Nos. 119 to 122, inclusive, together. Following the submission to me in 2004 of a report and recommendations by an expert group Following the submission to me in 2004 of a report and recommendations by an expert group on crime statistics, I decided that the compilation on crime statistics, I decided that the compilation and publication of crime statistics should be taken and publication of crime statistics should be taken over by the Central Statistics Office, as the over by the Central Statistics Office, as the national statistical agency, from the Garda Sıóch- national statistical agency, from the Garda Sıóch- ańa. The Garda Sıóchańa Act, 2005 consequently ańa. The Garda Sıóchańa Act, 2005 consequently makes provision for this and the CSO has estab- makes provision for this and the CSO has established a dedicated unit for this purpose. Follow- lished a dedicated unit for this purpose. Follow- ing the setting up of the necessary technical ing the setting up of the necessary technical systems and auditing of the data from which the systems and auditing of the data from which the statistics are compiled, I am pleased to note that statistics are compiled, I am pleased to note that the CSO is now compiling and publishing crimi- the CSO is now compiling and publishing criminal statistics and has published provisional head- nal statistics and has published provisional headline crime statistics for the third and fourth quar- line crime statistics for the third and fourth quarters of 2006. In addition, it has compiled and ters of 2006. In addition, it has compiled and published a series of quarterly and annual statis- published a series of quarterly and annual statistics for the period starting with the first quarter tics for the period starting with the first quarter of 2003. I understand that the CSO are examining of 2003. I understand that the CSO are examining how the crime statistics published might be how the crime statistics published might be expanded and made more comprehensive. expanded and made more comprehensive. Crime statistics for 2000-2002 for the Headline Crime statistics for 2000-2002 for the Headline Crimes of robbery and aggravated burglary for Crime of robbery for the Garda Division of the Garda Division of Wexford/Wicklow, which Wexford/Wicklow, which includes the Garda Dis- includes the Garda Districts of Wexford, New tricts of Wexford, New Ross, Enniscorthy and Ross, Enniscorthy and Gorey, are contained in Gorey, are contained in the relevant Garda the relevant Garda Annual Reports, copies of Annual Reports, copies of which are available in which are available in the Oireachtas Library. the Oireachtas Library. I have requested the CSO to provide the infor- I have requested the CSO to provide the information sought by the Deputy directly to him. mation sought by the Deputy directly to him. 1377 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1378

123. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- Garda Annual Reports, copies of which are avail- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the able in the Oireachtas Library. number of rapes and sexual assaults reported and I have requested the CSO to provide the infor- the number detected in the Wexford district, mation sought by the Deputy directly to him. County Wexford in the years 2000 to 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Garda Deployment. [11852/07] 127. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the 124. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- number of Gardaı´ of all ranks who were in the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the Wexford district, County Wexford at 31 number of rapes and sexual assaults reported and December in each of the years 1997 to 2006 the number detected in the New Ross district, inclusive; and if he will make a statement on the County Wexford in the years 2000 to 2006; and if matter. [11856/07] he will make a statement on the matter. [11853/07] 128. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the 125. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- number of Gardaı´ of all ranks who were in the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the New Ross district, County Wexford at 31 number of rapes and sexual assaults reported and December in each of the years 1997 to 2006 the number detected in the Enniscorthy district, inclusive; and if he will make a statement on the County Wexford in the years 2000 to 2006; and if matter. [11857/07] he will make a statement on the matter. [11854/07] 129. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the 126. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- number of Gardaı´ of all ranks who were in the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the Enniscorthy district, County Wexford at 31 number of rapes and sexual assaults reported and December in each of the years 1997 to 2006 the number detected in the Gorey district, inclusive; and if he will make a statement on the County Wexford in the years 2000 to 2006; and if matter. [11858/07] he will make a statement on the matter. [11855/07] 130. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and number of Gardaı´ of all ranks who were in the Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Gorey district, County Wexford at 31 December Questions Nos. 123 to 126, inclusive, together. in each of the years 1997 to 2006 inclusive; and if Following the submission to me in 2004 of a he will make a statement on the matter. report and recommendations by an expert group [11859/07] on crime statistics, I decided that the compilation and publication of crime statistics should be taken 131. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- over by the Central Statistics Office, as the ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the national statistical agency, from the Garda Sıóch- number of Gardaı´ stationed in the Wicklow ańa. The Garda Sıóchańa Act, 2005 consequently Wexford Garda division during the years 1997 to makes provision for this and the CSO has estab- 2006 inclusive; and if he will make a statement on lished a dedicated unit for this purpose. Follow- the matter. [11860/07] ing the setting up of the necessary technical systems and auditing of the data from which the Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and statistics are compiled, I am pleased to note that Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take the CSO is now compiling and publishing crimi- Questions Nos. 127 to 131, inclusive, together. nal statistics and has published provisional head- I have been informed by the Garda authorities, line crime statistics for the third and fourth quar- who are responsible for the detailed allocation of ters of 2006. In addition, it has compiled and resources, including personnel, that the personnel published a series of quarterly and annual statis- strength (all ranks) of An Garda Sıóchańa tics for the period starting with the first quarter increased to a record 13,178 following the attest- of 2003. I understand that the CSO are examining ation of 273 new members on Wednesday 14 how the crime statistics published might be March, 2007. This compares with a total strength expanded and made more comprehensive. of 10,702 (all ranks) on 30 June, 1997 and rep- Crime statistics for 2000-2002 for the Headline resents an increase of 2,476 (or over 23%) in the Crimes of rape and sexual assault for the Garda personnel strength of the Force during that Division of Wexford/Wicklow, which includes the period. The combined strength (all ranks), of Garda Districts of Wexford, New Ross, Enniscor- both attested Gardaı´ and recruits in training on thy and Gorey, are contained in the relevant 14 March, 2007 was 14,258. Furthermore, I should 1379 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1380

[Mr. McDowell.] is met. The Garda Budget now stands at \1.4 say that on 19 December, 2006, as part of a pack- billion, an 11% increase on 2006 and a 96% age of anti-crime measures, the Government increase since 1997 in real terms. approved the continuation of the existing Garda I have been further informed by the Garda recruitment programme to achieve a total Garda authorities that the personnel strength of each strength of 15,000. The accelerated intake of District in the Wicklow/Wexford Division on 31 approximately 1,100 new recruits per annum into December, 1997 to 2006 and on 26 March, 2007 the Garda College will continue until this target was as set out in the following table:

Wicklow/Wexford ’97 ’98 ’99 ’00 ’01 ’02 ’03 ’04 ’05 ’06 ’07

Wexford 76 86 88 81 89 87 89 86 90 101 105 Gorey 63 68 68 69 76 79 78 77 80 87 90 Enniscorthy 41 43 40 41 44 44 44 45 45 47 48 New Ross 37 40 37 42 41 42 41 41 43 48 48 Wicklow 52 56 57 55 58 58 60 55 54 61 68

Total 269 293 290 288 308 310 312 304 312 344 354

The personnel strength of the Wicklow/Wexford 134. Dr. Cowley asked the Tańaiste and Mini- Division on 31 December, 1997 and 26 March, ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if sur- 2007 was 269 and 354 (all ranks) respectively. veillance is being or has been carried out on the This represents an increase of 85 (or 31.5%) in land line or mobile phone numbers of a person the number of personnel allocated since that date. (details supplied) in view of the fact that he has Resources are further augmented by a number introduced the necessary legislation to do so; and of Garda National Units such as the Garda if he will make a statement on the matter. National Drugs Unit, the Garda National Immi- [11869/07] gration Bureau (GNIB), other specialised units and the Criminal Assets Bureau (CAB), all of 135. Dr. Cowley asked the Tańaiste and Mini- which have had increased resources. ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if sur- I should add that it is the responsibility of veillance is being or has been carried out on the Garda management to allocate personnel to and land line or mobile phone numbers of a person (details supplied) in view of the fact that he has within Divisions. These personnel allocations are introduced the necessary legislation to do so; and determined by a number of factors including if he will make a statement on the matter. demographics, crime trends and other oper- [11870/07] ational policing needs. Such allocations are con- tinually monitored and reviewed along with over- 136. Dr. Cowley asked the Tańaiste and Mini- all policing arrangements and operational ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if sur- strategy. This ensures that optimum use is made veillance is being or has been carried out on the of Garda resources and that the best possible land line or mobile phone numbers of a person service is provided to the public. (details supplied) in view of the fact that he has introduced the necessary legislation to do so; and Garda Operations. if he will make a statement on the matter. 132. Dr. Cowley asked the Tańaiste and Mini- [11871/07] ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if surveillance is being or has been carried out on the 137. Dr. Cowley asked the Tańaiste and Mini- land line or mobile phone numbers of a person ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if sur- (details supplied) in view of the fact that he has veillance is being or has been carried out on the land line or mobile phone numbers of this Deputy introduced the necessary legislation to do so; and in view of the fact that he has introduced the if he will make a statement on the matter. necessary legislation to do so; and if he will make [11867/07] a statement on the matter. [11872/07] 133. Dr. Cowley asked the Tańaiste and Mini- 138. Dr. Cowley asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if sur- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if surveillance is being or has been carried out on the veillance is being or has been carried out on the land line or mobile phone numbers of a person land line or mobile phone numbers of a person (details supplied) in view of the fact that he has (details supplied) in view of the fact that he has introduced the necessary legislation to do so; and introduced the necessary legislation to do so; and if he will make a statement on the matter. if he will make a statement on the matter. [11868/07] [11873/07] 1381 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1382

Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and ted initially for a period of 90 days or less on a C Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I propose to take Visa, save in very exceptional and unforeseen cir- Questions Nos. 132 to 138, inclusive, together. cumstances. The interception of telecommunications is gov- A wrap-around information sheet accompanies erned by the provisions of the Interception of every visa application form. That sheet makes it Postal Packets and Telecommunications Mess- clear to the applicant that, in general, persons ages (Regulation) Act 1993. It is not the practice granted visas for particular purposes are not per- and it would be contrary to the public interest to mitted to remain in the State for any purpose disclose if an authorisation to intercept has or has other than that for which the visa was granted. not been granted in any particular case. Every visa applicant is required to state on the The retention of and access to telecommunica- application form the dates on which he or she tions traffic and location data is governed by the proposes to enter and leave Ireland. He or she provisions of Part 7 of the Criminal Justice is also required to declare that the information (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005. It is not the prac- supplied is correct and complete. tice and it would be contrary to the public interest The person concerned must leave and reapply to disclose if a data access request has or has not for the appropriate visa from outside the State. been made in any particular case. Should they wish to return, they should include Section 9 of the 1993 Act provides for a Com- in their new visa application the purpose and dur- plaints Referee to examine complaints of contra- ation of their intended stay. vention of both the 1993 Act and Part 7 of the 2005 Act. Accordingly, it is open to any person, 141. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Tańaiste and if s/he considers that there may have been such a Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if contravention, to apply to the Complaints Ref- there are restrictions on Palestinian citizens who eree for an investigation into the matter. The cur- live and work in another EU State in applying for rent Complaints Referee is His Honour Judge holiday visas to visit Ireland; if such visas have Carroll Moran, Judge of the Circuit Court, who been granted in the past year; and if he will make may be contacted via of the Office of the Pres- a statement on the matter. [11880/07] ident of the Circuit Court, The Four Courts, Dublin 7. Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): There are no Departmental Reports. restrictions on Palestinian citizens who live and work in another EU State in applying for holiday 139. Mr. McGinley asked the Tańaiste and visas to visit Ireland. Eleven Visit Visas in total Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform were issued to Palestinian citizens in the last 12 when the casino committee report will be pub- months. lished; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11877/07] 142. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and the position regarding a written application to his Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I received the Department by a person (details supplied) in draft Report of the Casino Committee on 21 County Cork to extend their visa to remain here December 2006. The Report is a detailed and with their spouse. [11881/07] comprehensive document dealing with all the issues placed before the Committee. I expect to Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and receive the final version of the report shortly. The Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I refer the Deputy Government must then consider the Report. to my previous reply of 3 October 2006 in relation to the person in question. The position remains Visa Applications. unchanged. 140. Dr. Upton asked the Tańaiste and Mini- ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he Irish Language. will elucidate the options that exist within the cur- 143. Mr. Sargent asked the Tańaiste and Mini- rent visa regime for a Turkish national with a C ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the visa and Irish born children to upgrade their visa languages in which his Department’s telephone status in order that they would no longer need to messages are recorded; and if his Department’s leave the State every three months in order to messages include a version in the Irish langu- remain here and look after their children. age. [11894/07] [11879/07] Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): I wish to inform Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): ACVisais the Deputy that pursuant to the scheme prepared granted for visits of less than 90 days. As a con- by my Department under Section 11 of the sequence it is not the general policy to extend Official Languages Act 2003 my Department is permission to remain to persons who are admit- committed to providing a range of services 1383 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1384

[Mr. McDowell.] Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and through the medium of Irish and through the Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The total number medium of Irish and English. Under this scheme, of citizens of the United States of America con- my Department has given an undertaking that all sidered for deportation under Section 3 (6) of the prerecorded oral announcements to our Immigration Act, 1999 (as amended) and customers will be in both the English and Irish deported for the seven year period 2000-2006 are languages by the end of the life of the scheme, shown in the following table. which is June 2009. It is expected that this objective will in fact have substantially been achieved Deportation orders effected — 2000 to 2006 by the end of this year. Year Number of deportation orders effected in respect of Ground Rents Abolition. U.S. citizens 144. Ms O’Donnell asked the Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if 2000 2 there are plans to reform or abolish residential 2001 1 ground rents; and if he will make a statement on 2002 2 the matter. [11952/07] 2003 3 2004 Nil Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The law already 2005 Nil provides for a statutory scheme for the acquis- 2006 3 ition of the fee simple in dwelling houses which is set out in the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Total 11 Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978. Part III of that Act provides a special procedure, operated by the Prop- The majority of the above cases referred to in the erty Registration Authority, whereby a person Table involve persons who claimed asylum but may acquire the fee simple in their dwelling their claims were rejected. house. A legal challenge to the constitutionality of cer- Ministerial Appointments. tain provisions of existing ground rents legislation 147. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Tańaiste and was heard in the High Court during 2005. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform court’s judgment upholding the constitutionality the number of appointments to State boards, of the legislation was delivered in early 2006 but State bodies or other like entities which he envis- this has now been appealed to the Supreme Court ages making or nominating in the period 26 and it is likely that the appeal will be heard later March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify any this year. Any proposals for further reform of such board, body or entity involved; and if he will ground rents legislation leading to the abolition make a statement on the matter. [11980/07] of ground rents would need to take into account the outcome of the case before the Supreme Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Court. Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): As the Deputy will appreciate, vacancies arise and fall to be filled on Stardust Disaster. State bodies and other entities under my Depart- 145. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Tańaiste and ment’s aegis on a ongoing basis. Having reviewed Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if the vacancies which exist or are scheduled to arise he will give an undertaking to the Stardust Rela- during the period in question, the information tives Committee for an external examination; and requested is as follows. the eminent legal person who is dealing with this matter. [11953/07] State Board/Body Appointments/ Nominations Envisaged 26 Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and March, 2007- Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The position 31 May, 2007 remains as set out in my response to the Deputy’s parliamentary question on this subject yesterday Parole Board 1 (ref: 11108/07). Censorship of Publications Board 5 Inspector of Prisons and Places of Deportation Orders. Detention 1 146. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Tańaiste and Criminal Injuries Compensation Tribunal 7 Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Garda Sıóchańa Complaints Board 9 the number of US citizens who have been deported from Ireland to the United States in each of the years from 2000 to date in 2007. I also envisage bringing forward proposals to [11967/07] Government to fill vacancies on the Irish Legal Terms Advisory Committee in accordance with 1385 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1386 to the relevant legislation. The question of • 14 Stand alone facilities providing an appointments to the Prison Visiting Committees Applied Behavioural Analysis (ABA) during the period in question is under con- specific methodology on a pilot basis (two sideration. of these facilities have yet to come on stream). The scheme is operated directly by Temporary Release of Prisoners. the Department of Education and Science. 148. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Tańaiste and In addition, the National Council for Special Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if Education (NCSE) was established under the a person (details supplied) will be granted tem- Education for Persons with Special Needs Act porary release to attend an entrance exam on 31 (EPSEN) 2004 to improve the delivery of edu- March 2007 at 2.15 p.m. as they want to attend cation services to persons with special edu- college later. [12117/07] cational needs arising from disabilities with particular emphasis on children. Since it was Tańaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and established in 2005, the NCSE has been respon- Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The person sible for allocating resources for children with referred to by the Deputy is serving a four year special educational needs. The Council has a key sentence with the final two months suspended for role in the delivery of services and operates the Membership of an Unlawful Organisation. He through a network of special educational needs is serving this sentence under maximum security organisers (SENOs) who act as a focal point of conditions in Portlaoise Prison and is not due for contact for schools and parents. The Deputy may release until 5 January 2008. wish to note that it is projected that over \820 I have recently considered applications for tem- million of the 2007 Estimates allocation for the porary release from this person in relation to a Department of Education and Science will be degree course in music. In view of the very related to disability and special needs. serious nature of his offence and the fact that he is not due for release until next year, I was not Irish Language. prepared to override the negative recommend- 150. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Fin- ation from the Irish Prison Service and accede to ance the languages in which his Department’s this request. telephone messages are recorded; and if his Department’s messages include a version in the Tax Code. Irish language. [11891/07] 149. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Finance his proposals to extend the incapacitated child tax Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): There is credit to parents of children with Asperger’s syn- currently no prerecorded message service on my drome; and if he will make a statement on the Department’s main switch line. As outlined in the matter. [11798/07] Department’s scheme 2006-2009 under Section 11 of the Official Languages Act 2003, any tele- Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The posi- phone prerecorded oral announcements intro- tion is that the incapacitated child tax credit is duced will be provided in Irish and English. Indi- only available to parents or guardians in respect vidual staff record messages on an ongoing basis of a child who is permanently incapacitated either on their dedicated phone extensions and are free physically or mentally from maintaining himself to leave telephone voice mail announcements in or herself as outlined in Section 465 of the Taxes the language(s) of their choice. Consolidation Act 1997. I have no plans to extend the credit to parents or guardians of children with Tax Collection. Asperger’s syndrome who would not be con- 151. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Finance sidered as permanently incapacitated from main- if his attention has been drawn to schemes of taining themselves. avoidance of stamp duty (details supplied); if the It should be noted, however, that in recent Revenue Commissioner’s attention has been years the Government has significantly increased drawn to such schemes; the reason they have not the supports available through the direct expendi- chosen to act under Section 811 of the Taxes ture system for children with Autistic Spectrum Consolidation Act 1997; and if he will make a Disorders. In this regard the Department of Edu- statement on the matter. [11928/07] cation of Science has established: • 182 special classes for children with autism, Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam attached to special and mainstream schools; advised by the Revenue Commissioners that they are aware of licensing arrangements between • 5 special classes for children with developers and landowners. The arrangement Asperger’s Syndrome; mentioned in the question arises where the devel- • 16 pre-school classes to facilitate the oper obtains a licence from the landowner that demand for early intervention provision for entitles the developer to enter onto the land and children on the autistic spectrum; and erect buildings. The usual way of achieving this is 1387 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1388

[Mr. Cowen.] Duty at the same rate as if there were a convey- for the landowner to grant the developer or his ance or transfer of the land. bank or both a power of attorney, which allows them to execute a conveyance or transfer of the Drainage Schemes. legal title to the ultimate purchaser without 152. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for further recourse to the landowner. Because there Finance the reason the Office of Public Works is no conveyance of the land from the landowner will not maintain a drain which was originally to the developer stamp duty does not arise at this maintained at Creevagh, Milltown, Tuam, County point. Stamp duty does, however, arise when the Galway; and if he will make a statement on the ultimate purchaser buys the land on which a matter. [11939/07] building will usually have been erected by the Minister of State at the Department of Finance developer, subject to the availability of the nor- (Mr. Parlon): The Commissioners of Public mal stamp duty reliefs. Works have reviewed the status of the channels Section 811 of the Taxes Consolidation Act of the Corrib Mask Scheme in the area con- 1997 is a general anti-avoidance measure. It is cerned, and are not aware of any such channel intended to defeat the effects of transactions, requiring maintenance within the routine main- which have little or no commercial reality but are tenance programme. If a specific channel within intended primarily to avoid or reduce a tax the scheme requires further maintenance, this charge or to artificially create a tax deduction or should be brought to the attention of the Com- tax refund. Individual instances of licence agree- missioners whereon the matter will be ments of the kind described above would be investigated. reviewed from this perspective. To date no case has been identified for which it would be appro- Ministerial Appointments. priate to invoke section 811 by reference to an 153. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for absence of business purpose. Finance the number of appointments to State The Deputy will be aware that the Finance Bill boards, State bodies or other like entities which 2007 contains a specific proposal to amend the he envisages making or nominating in the period provisions of the Stamp Duty Consolidation Act 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify 1999, to bring in a charge to Stamp Duty in cer- any such board, body or entity involved; and if he tain circumstances where Licence Agreements will make a statement on the matter. [11977/07] are involved. Briefly stated, the proposal, which Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The follow- is subject to a commencement order, is that ing vacancies have arisen recently or are due to where by virtue of a licence agreement, the land- arise in the coming months on State boards, State owner receives a payment amounting to 25% or bodies or other entities under the aegis of my more of the market value of the land in question, Department and I would envisage filling the the agreement will be chargeable with Stamp majority of these vacancies by 31 May 2007.

Name of Body No. of Vacancies

Ordnance Survey Ireland (OSI) 7 State Claims Agency (SCA) Policy Committee 5 Valuation Tribunal 4 Civil Service Disciplinary Code Appeal Board 1 Decentralisation Implementation Group 1 Financial Services Consultative Consumer Panel 1 National Treasury Management Agency Advisory Committee 2 Disabled Drivers Medical Board of Appeal 2

on post mortem practice to me in March 2005, I Investigative Reports. was advised by the Attorney General that it could 154. Ms McManus asked the Minister for not be published for legal and natural justice Health and Children if 54 boxes of docu- reasons. Some sections of the report were mentation were presented to her by Anne released on 18 July 2006 in response to a request Dunne, S.C. on 31 March 2005: the location of under the Freedom of Information Acts from these 54 boxes of documentation; if an organis- Parents for Justice. However, in the light of the ation (details supplied) will be given access to this legal advice available to me, I have no plans to material; and if she will make a statement on the publish the full report. matter. [11901/07] The 54 boxes which comprise the report and appendices are stored in Damastown, Dublin 15 Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): at the premises of Glenbeigh Records Manage- When Ms Anne Dunne SC presented her report 1389 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1390 ment, who are contracted to provide secure offs- requested the Parliamentary Affairs Division of ite document storage for the Department. the Executive to arrange to have this case investigated and to have a reply issued directly to the Health Services. Deputy. 155. Ms Harkin asked the Minister for Health Hospitals Building Programme. and Children when an assessment will be forthcoming for a person (details supplied) in County 158. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Minister Leitrim. [11925/07] for Health and Children if, with regard to the private for profit hospital co-location plan, the Minister of State at the Department of Health competitive dialogue phase of the process with and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): Operational the Health Service Executive and the relevant responsibility for the management and delivery of hospitals has been completed; the core require- health and personal social services was assigned ments identified in respect of each public hospital to the Health Service Executive under the Health site involved in the scheme; if preferred bidders Act 2004, and funding for all health services has have been invited to tender to build and operate been provided as part of its overall Vote. The private hospitals; the specifications which have Executive is, therefore, the appropriate body to been determined in each case; if invitations to consider the particular case raised by the Deputy. tender have issued; if guidelines for contracts or My Department has requested the Parliamentary draft contracts have been drawn up in her Affairs Division of the Executive to arrange to Department or by the HSE; and if she will make have the case investigated and to have a reply a statement on the matter. [11800/07] issued directly to the Deputy. Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Water Pollution. The Health Service Executive is currently engaged in a public procurement process in 156. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for relation to the co-location of private hospitals on Health and Children the number of deaths that the sites of public hospitals. I understand that the have occurred over the past ten years from the competitive dialogue stage of the process has presence of cryptosporidium in public water sup- been completed and that the Invitation to Tender plies; and the groups vulnerable to serious injury will issue in the next few days. or death from this organism. [11955/07] The core requirement of a co-located hospital will be to treat the private patients that are cur- Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): rently receiving treatment in the public hospital. While illness associated with cryptosporidium are The minimum requirements a co-located hospital notifiable, the outcome of the illness is not cur- must provide include: rently recorded. Data from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre shows that in Ireland there • Ability to admit private patients directly were 432 cases of cryptosporidiosis in 2004, 570 from public hospital Emergency Depart- in 2005 and 361 in 2006. Between 1999 and 2002 ments, primary care centres and GPs on a there was an average of 60 cases per annum hos- 24/7 basis; pitalised (annual rate of 1.5 per 100,000 • Capacity to treat all private patients cur- population). The most vulnerable groups in the rently catered for in the public hospital; population are the young and the immunocom- promised. • Joint Clinical Governance between the public hospital and the co-located hospital; Hospital Services. • Performance Management requirements and documented service level agreements; 157. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Health and Children if she will intervene with the Mater • Shared Information and Records Hospital on behalf of a person (details supplied) Management. in County Sligo and have an appointment made Selected bidders must confirm their ability to instantly in view of their extenuating medical cir- meet these requirements before progressing to cumstances; and if she will make a statement on the invitation to tender stage of the procurement the matter. [11799/07] process. There will be full adherence to public procurement law and best practice. There will be Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): a rigorous value for money assessment of all pro- Operational responsibility for the management posals. Any transaction will be on a commercial and delivery of health and personal social services basis and will fully protect the public interest. was assigned to the Health Service Executive under the Health Act 2004, and funding for all Medical Cards. health services has been provided as part of its overall Vote. Therefore, the Executive is the 159. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Health appropriate body to consider the particular case and Children the number of medical cards that raised by the Deputy. My Department has have been issued in each of the past six months; 1391 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1392

[Mr. Costello.] the full year cost of Co-op developments com- the number of general practitioner only cards menced in 2006. These figures do not include the which have issued in each of the past six months; fees of the participating doctors. and if she will make a statement on the As the Health Service Executive has the oper- matter. [11828/07] ational and funding responsibility for this service, it is the appropriate body to provide the infor- Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): mation sought by the Deputy. My Department Details of the numbers of medical card and GP has therefore requested the Parliamentary Affairs visit card holders are provided to my Department Division of the Executive to arrange to address each month by the Health Service Executive’s this matter and to have a reply issued directly to Primary Care Reimbursement Service. The fig- the Deputy. ures are provided on a net basis showing the balance after new cards have been issued and other cards, as appropriate, have been deleted Adoption Services. from the Executive’s database e.g. following a 161. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for review of an applicant’s circumstances. Health and Children if, in view of waiting lists The following table shows the number of medi- encountered by adopted people and natural cal cards/GP visit cards for each of the last six parents who wish to trace and by those seeking months. assessments for suitability to adopt, and the sensitive and specialised nature of the work involved, Month No. of Medical No. of GP Visit Cards Cards it is the intention of the Health Services Execu- tive southern region to lay off staff working in its 1 March, 2007 1,228,468 58,712 adoption service, either permanently or tempor- 1 February, 2007 1,227,577 55,578 arily or with a view to replacing them, in order to avoid a contractual obligation to employ them on 1 January, 2007 1,221,695 51,760 permanent contracts; and if she will make a state- 1 December, 2006 1,219,829 47,550 ment on the matter. [11876/07] 1 November, 2006 1,216,344 42,026 1 October, 2006 1,209,284 36,017 Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Over 120,000 people work full-time or part-time in our public health services. In recent years, the General Practitioner Co-operatives. Government’s ongoing high level of investment in health has achieved and maintained significant 160. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Health increases in the number of doctors, nurses and and Children if her attention has been drawn to other health care professionals employed in the the fact that negotiations between her Depart- public health services. The Government has also ment, the Health Service Executive and the Shannon Doc Co-operative have broken down; if invested heavily in the education and training of her attention has further been drawn to the such personnel in order to secure a good supply adverse consequences of this breakdown on of graduates to provide for the healthcare needs services provided by general practitioners in the of the population into the future. Limerick area; if she will intervene in the dispute Subject to overall parameters set by Govern- to ensure that a realistic offer is made to meet the ment, the Health Service Executive has the concerns of the GPs in question; and if she will responsibility for determining the composition of make a statement on the matter. [11862/07] its staffing complement. In that regard, it is a matter for the Executive to manage and deploy Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): its human resources to best meet the require- Out of hours co-operatives allow general prac- ments of the Actual Service Plan for the delivery titioners to put in place arrangements to provide of health and personal social services to the services to their patients, while their surgeries are public. The Executive is the appropriate body to closed in the evenings, on weekends and bank consider the matter raised by the Deputy. My holidays. The development of GP co-operatives Department has requested the Parliamentary is in line with the overall health service policy of Affairs Division of the Executive to arrange to strengthening primary care services and ensuring have the matter investigated and to have a reply that to the greatest extent possible, people’s care issued to the Deputy. needs are met in the primary care setting. Out of hours co-operatives are now in place in all Health Service Executive (HSE) areas, provid- Irish Language. ing coverage in all or in part of all counties. 162. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Health \ Between 2000 and 2006 approximately 139 mil- and Children the languages in which her Depart- lion was allocated to the HSE for out of hours ment’s telephone messages are recorded; and if GP co-operatives. In 2007, the HSE Vote \ her Department’s messages include a version in includes almost 34 million in baseline funding the Irish language. [11893/07] for these services and a further \3 million to meet 1393 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1394

Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Working Group on Mental Health in Primary At present, prerecorded telephone messages are Care was established by the Health Service in the English language. My Department is com- Executive (HSE). The Working Group brought mitted to making specific provision for delivery together the expertise of General Practitioners, of services through Irish, and is in the process of Consultant Psychiatrists, Psychiatric Nurses, making arrangements to provide telephone mess- Clinical Psychologists, a Primary Care Director, ages in both official languages. Mental Health Promotion Officer, Director of Counselling and a Chief Pharmacist. Working in Mental Health Services. close collaboration, the HSE and the Irish College of General Practitioners developed and 163. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Health piloted guidelines. I am pleased to inform the and Children the details of the information team Deputy that I launched the Mental Health in for introducing the recommendations on the Primary Care Resource Pack on 31 January 2007. report A Vision for Change; and the number of Following the launch, the resource pack was times and dates that this team has met. circulated to all General Practitioners. The [11899/07] materials include: Minister of State at the Department of Health • Mental Health in Primary Care and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): I presume the question refers to the independent monitoring • Guidelines on the Management of group for “A Vision for Change” — the Report Depression & Anxiety Disorders of the Expert Group on Mental Health Policy. • Guidance on the Provision of Counselling I established the monitoring group in March in a Primary Care setting 2006. The Chair of the Group is Dr Ruth Barrington, Chief Executive Officer of the Health • Alcohol Aware Practice — Service Research Board. The other members of the Initiative Group are Dr. Tony Bates, Executive Director, • New referral forms to Adult and Child & National Centre for Youth Mental Health, Mr. Adolescent mental health services. Pat Brosnan, Director of Mental Health Services, HSE Mid-Western Area, Dr. Susan Finnerty, Hospital Services. Acting Inspector of Mental Health Services, Mr. Paul Flynn, Service User, Ms. Dora Hennessy, 165. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Health Principal, Mental Health Division, Department of and Children the reason for the delay in calling a Health and Children, Dr. Terry Lynch, General person (details supplied) in County Wexford for Practitioner and Psychotherapist, and Mr. the outstanding treatment, particularly as they Stephen Jackson, Department of Health, Social have been referred to another hospital. Security and Public Safety, Belfast. [11902/07] The Group’s terms of reference are: Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): • To monitor and assess progress on the Operational responsibility for the management implementation of all the recom- and delivery of health and personal social services mendations in A Vision for Change; is a matter for the Health Service Executive, and • To make recommendations in relation to funding for all health services has been provided the manner in which the recommendations as part of its overall Vote. Therefore, the Execu- are implemented; tive is the appropriate body to consider the part- • To report to the Minister annually on pro- icular case raised by the Deputy. My Department gress made towards implementing the has requested the Parliamentary Affairs Division recommendations of the Report and to of the Executive to arrange to have the matter publish the report. investigated and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. The Group is to submit its first report before mid- 2007. To date, six meetings have been held on the Hospital Procedures. following dates: 25 April 2006, 22 May 2006, 12 September 2006, 27 November 2006, 18 January 166. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Health 2007 and 15 March 2007. and Children when a person (details supplied) in County Mayo will be called to hospital in Galway 164. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Health for surgical procedures, in view of the fact that and Children the details of the National Working they have been given dates for surgery and they Group on Mental Health guidelines for the man- have been cancelled; the number of times dates agement of depression and anxiety disorders in have issued to this person for admission; the primary care. [11900/07] reason they are being cancelled; when can they expect to be called as the delay is causing this Minister of State at the Department of Health person unnecessary distress and worry. and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The National [11907/07] 1395 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1396

Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): sufficient to meet current and future demand to Operational responsibility for the management 2015 for speech and language therapists. and delivery of health and personal social services The health service acknowledges the major was assigned to the Health Service Executive importance of early intervention, hence the under the Health Act 2004, and funding for all decision to initiate implementation of the Dis- health services has been provided as part of its ability Act for children aged 0-5 on 1 June of this overall Vote. Therefore, the Executive is the year. Under the multi-annual investment prog- appropriate body to consider the particular case ramme for people with disabilities 2006-2009, the raised by the Deputy. My Department has sum of \12.5 million was provided in 2006 and a requested the Parliamentary Affairs Division of further \15 million is being provided in 2007 to the Executive to arrange to have this case investi- enhance the level and range of multidisciplinary gated and to have a reply issued directly to the support services with the priority in both years to Deputy. enhancing the assessment and support services to children with a disability. Services for People with Disabilities. 167. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Health Care of the Elderly. and Children the level of demand and supply for 168. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for speech therapy and other supports for children Health and Children if a person (details supplied) with special needs; her view on the importance of in County Galway will be admitted to a home; early intervention; and if she will make a state- and if she will make a statement on the ment on the matter. [10655/07] matter. [11940/07]

Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Minister of State at the Department of Health Demand for speech and language therapy in the and Children (Mr. S. Power): Operational health services is very significant, hence the sub- responsibility for the management and delivery of stantial investment which has been provided over health and personal social services was assigned the last number of years. The number of speech to the Health Service Executive under the Health and language therapists employed in the public Act 2004. Therefore, the Executive is the appro- health service has grown from 281 WTEs in 1997 priate body to consider the particular case raised to 654 WTEs at end December 2006, a 133% by the Deputy. My Department has requested the growth in that period. The Government has also Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Executive committed to further investment in disability to arrange to have the matter investigated and to services via the multi-annual investment plan and have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. this will see further increases in the speech and language therapy resources available. Nursing Home Subventions. A particular priority for the Department of 169. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Health and Children in recent years has been the Health and Children when an application for a expansion of the supply of therapy graduates, nursing home subvention on behalf of a person including speech and language therapists. In (details supplied) in County Galway will be pro- response to concerns regarding labour shortages, cessed; the level of subvention they are entitled the Department of Health and Children com- to; and if she will make a statement on the missioned a report from Dr. Peter Bacon and matter. [11941/07] Associates on current and future supply and demand conditions to 2015 in the labour market Minister of State at the Department of Health for speech and language therapists, occupational and Children (Mr. S. Power): Operational therapists and physiotherapists (Bacon Report). responsibility for the management and delivery of The Report was published in 2001 and arising health and personal social services was assigned from its recommendations additional courses in to the Health Service Executive under the Health speech and language therapy providing 75 places Act 2004. Therefore, the Executive is the appro- were established in three universities. UCC, priate body to consider the particular case raised NUIG and UL each established courses in speech by the Deputy. My Department has requested the and language therapy with 25 places on each of Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Executive the 3 courses. The first cohort of graduates from to arrange to have the matter investigated and to the UL masters level course in speech and langu- have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. age therapy graduated in 2005 and the first cohort from the bachelor degree programmes in UCC Hospital Services. and NUIG will graduate this year. This investment represents an increase in training capacity 170. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for of 300% in speech and language therapy. The Health and Children her plans to develop total number of speech and language therapy hospital services in the north west, particularly training places now stands at 100, the level at Donegal; and if she will make a statement on the which the Bacon Report recommended as being matter. [11951/07] 1397 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1398

Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): Minister of State at the Department of Health Operational responsibility for the management and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): As the Deputy and delivery of health and personal social services may be aware, a sum of \75 million for revenue was assigned to the Health Service Executive purposes was provided to the Health Service under the Health Act 2004, and funding for all Executive for Disability Services in the 2007 health services has been provided as part of its Budget. This sum incorporates the 2007 element overall Vote. Therefore, the Executive is the of the Government’s multi-annual investment appropriate body to consider the particular programme for the National Disability Strategy. matter raised by the Deputy. My Department has This Strategy is committed to enhancing the level requested the Parliamentary Affairs Division of and range of multidisciplinary support services to the Executive to arrange to have this matter adults and children with an intellectual, physical investigated and to have a reply issued directly to and sensory disability and those with autism. the Deputy. The Deputy’s question relates to the management and delivery of health and personal social Ministerial Appointments. services, which are the responsibility of the Health Service Executive under the Health Act 171. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for 2004. Accordingly, my Department has requested Health and Children the number of appointments the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Execu- to State boards, State bodies or other like entities tive to arrange to have this matter investigated which she envisages making or nominating in the and to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if she will identify any such board, body or entity involved; Health Service Staff. and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11979/07] 173. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Health and Children the number of persons employed by Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): the Health Service Executive within the hospital The information requested by the Deputy is as and health centre structure; the number set out below. It should be noted that the details employed by the HSE itself; the number presented represent both current vacancies on employed on a contract basis by using contract the boards of bodies under the aegis of my companies; the cost to the executive in each Department, which are in the process of being instance; and if she will make a statement on the filled, in addition to those vacancies which are matter. [11985/07] due to occur before 31 May 2007. I would envisage filling each of these vacancies in a timely Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): fashion to allow for the work of the boards in Over 120,000 people work full-time or part-time question to continue uninterrupted subject to the in our public health services. In recent years, the availability of suitable candidates willing to serve Government’s ongoing high level of investment in these positions. in health has achieved and maintained significant increases in the numbers of doctors, nurses and • Dublin Dental Hospital Board (14) other health care professionals employed in the • Health Research Board (10) public health services. The Government has also invested heavily in the education and training of • Irish Medicines Board (1) such personnel in order to secure a good supply • National Cancer Registry Board (10) of graduates to provide for the health care needs of the population into the future. • National Council on Aging and Older Subject to overall parameters set by Govern- People (1) ment, the Health Service Executive has the • National Social Work Qualifications responsibility for determining the composition of Board (17) its staffing complement. In that regard, it is a matter for the Executive to manage and deploy • National Treatment Purchase Fund (1) its human resources to best meet the require- • St Luke’s Hospital Board (2) ments of its Annual Service Plan for the delivery of health and personal social services to the • Voluntary Health Insurance Board (1) public. The Executive is the appropriate body to consider the matter raised by the Deputy. My Services for People with Disabilities. Department has requested the Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Executive to arrange to 172. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for have the matter investigated and to have a reply Health and Children if her attention has been issued directly to the Deputy. drawn to the fact that there is a four year delay for school children in County Cork who are being referred for an assessment for speech therapy; her Hospitals Building Programme. views on whether this is unacceptable; and her 174. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for proposals in this regard. [11984/07] Health and Children the value of the land 1399 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1400

[Mr. Gormley.] with other Departments/Offices that have an approximately, to be given to private individuals interest in this issue. to build private hospitals on public land; and if I anticipate that the examination of the Code she will make a statement on the matter. will be completed shortly and I will be in contact [12091/07] with the HSE at that point. The Executive will publish its code of governance once it has been Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): approved by me under section 35 of the Health No public land is being given to private individ- Act 2004 but I cannot say if this will happen prior uals to build private hospitals. In July 2005, fol- to the dissolution of Da´il E´ ireann. lowing Government approval, I issued a policy direction to the Health Service Executive to Food Safety Authority. develop co-located private hospitals on the sites of public hospitals. The aim of this initiative is 177. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Health to transfer private activity from within the public and Children if she will report on compliance hospital system to new privately-financed and with the requirement for restaurants and catering managed facilities and thereby free up approxi- outlets to display the origin of meat sold; the mately 1,000 additional beds for public patients. numbers of businesses that have been found to The land to develop co-located private infringe this requirement; and if she will make a hospitals will be leased on a commercial basis to statement on the matter. [9141/07] successful bidders. There will be a rigorous value for money assessment of all proposals. Any trans- Minister of State at the Department of Health action will be on a commercial basis and will fully and Children (Mr. S. Power): Responsibility for protect the public interest. There will be full the enforcement of food labelling legislation rests adherence to public procurement law and best with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland practice. (FSAI). Checks on compliance with the Health (Country of Origin of Beef) Regulations are being incorporated into routine hygiene inspec- Care of the Elderly. tions for establishments covered by these regu- 175. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Health lations. Such inspections are carried out by the and Children if further to a direct response to this Environmental Health Officers (EHOs) in the Deputy following a parliamentary question she Health Service Executive (HSE) operating under will provide documentary evidence that a person a service contract with the FSAI. (details supplied) in Dublin 10 refused a place in As the Health (Country of Origin of Beef) a nursing home on behalf of their son; and if she Regulations 2006 (S.I. 307 of 2006) which have will provide written evidence that the nursing been recently amended by Health (Country of home accepts patients who need to be fed Origin of Beef) (Amendment) Regulations 2007 through a peg and have MRSA. [12118/07] (S.I. 85 of 2007) are relatively new, the arrangements for recording specific checks for com- Minister of State at the Department of Health pliance have yet to be finalised. Discussions are and Children (Mr. S. Power): Operational ongoing in this regard. responsibility for the management and delivery of My Department has recognised the need to health and personal social services was assigned provide clear information to food business oper- to the Health Service Executive under the Health ators regarding their obligation to comply with Act 2004. Therefore, the Executive is the appro- the new regulations. An explanatory leaflet has priate body to consider the particular case raised been prepared by the FSAI and will be circulated by the Deputy. My Department has requested the to all relevant food businesses in the coming Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Executive weeks. A guidance note for EHOs on the to arrange to have the matter investigated and to enforcement of the regulations was circulated have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. earlier this month.

Health Service Staff. Animal Welfare. 176. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for 178. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Health Health and Children if she will publish the code and Children the training required by officials of governance for the Health Service Executive who inspect laboratories used for animal exper- prior to the dissolution of Da´ilE´ ireann; and if she iments; the number of tests carried out to date will make a statement on the matter. [11963/07] in 2007; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [9138/07] Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): As you are aware, a draft code of governance has Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): been prepared by the Health Service Executive Inspections of registered user establishments are and was submitted to me in late September. The carried out in accordance with Section 10 of the contents of this Code have been assessed by my Cruelty to Animals Act 1876, as amended. The Department and discussions are being finalised Act provides for all registered establishments to 1401 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1402 be visited from time to time by inspectors for the of the 2003 Act and every three years thereafter, purpose of securing compliance with the pro- that is to say, not later than 2009. Following a visions of the Act. Under the Act only persons review of designated events in 2006, I announced who hold a relevant medical or veterinary qualifi- on 5 April 2006 that it was my intention, follow- cation are eligible to be appointed as, or assigned ing consultation with my Cabinet colleagues, to the duties of, inspector. The role of inspector is continue to designate the current list of desig- primarily one of animal welfare and all appointed nated events as events of major importance to inspectors are veterinary officials of the Depart- society for which the right of a qualifying broad- ment of Agriculture and Food. Officials of my caster to provide coverage on a live basis on free Department do not carry out these inspections. television should be provided in the public The latest statistics on the use of animals for interest. experimental and other scientific purposes are in This decision was made following a public con- respect of 2005 and these are available on my sultation process conducted by my Department Department’s website, www.dohc.ie. The total that resulted in close to 190 submissions being number of live animals used in experiments in received from members of the public and 2005 was 37,940. interested parties. The designation of events as events of major importance to society provides a Drug Treatment Programme. right of access to qualifying broadcasters, that is broadcasters who provide near universal cover- 179. Mr. Crowe asked the Minister for Health age, to provide coverage of a designated event on and Children her views on the fact that drug users free television services subject to normal com- from rural areas are forced to travel long dis- mercial considerations for broadcasting. tances to Dublin to receive treatment and to enter detoxification. [7778/07] Telecommunications Services. Minister for Health and Children (Ms Harney): 181. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for The question relates to the management and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources delivery of health and personal social services, his views on offering grants towards the cost of which are the responsibility of the Health Service satellite broadband services for people in areas Executive under the Health Act 2004. Accord- unable to avail of low-cost broadband; and if he ingly, my Department has requested the will make a statement on the matter. [11878/07] Parliamentary Affairs Division of the Executive to arrange to have this matter investigated and to Minister for Communications, Marine and have a reply issued directly to the Deputy. Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The provision of telecommunications services, including Broadcasting Legislation. broadband, is a matter in the first instance for the private sector companies operating in a fully 180. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for liberalised market, regulated by the independent Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Commission for Communications Regulation, his preferred options for the broadcasting of all (ComReg). sporting events here; if he expects to be in a posi- The Government is addressing the infrastruc- tion to ensure free to air transmission of sport ture deficit in the regions by building high-speed, events in general; and if he will make a statement open access, carrier neutral Metropolitan Area on the matter. [12098/07] Networks (MANs) in 120 towns and cities nationwide, on a phased basis in association with the Minister for Communications, Marine and local and regional authorities. Twenty-seven of Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The Tele- these have been completed with the remaining vision Without Frontiers Directive provides that due for completion during 2007 and 2008. These member states of the European Communities Metropolitan Area Networks will allow the may designate certain sporting and cultural private sector to offer world-class broadband events as being of major importance to society services at competitive costs. Complementary to and that events so designated should continue to the MAN networks, the recently concluded be available on a free television service. The Group Broadband Scheme (GBS) has funded Broadcasting (Major Events Television over 120 projects specifically aimed at smaller Coverage) Act 1999 (Designation of Major communities. Events) Order 2003 specified the events desig- However, despite this Government investment nated as events of major importance to society and private sector investment I am aware that for which the right of a qualifying broadcaster to there are still some parts of the country where the provide coverage on free television services private sector is unable to justify the commercial should be provided in the public interest. provision of broadband connectivity. A Steering Section 9 of the Broadcasting ( Major Events Committee comprising officials from my Depart- Television Coverage) (Amendment) Act 2003 ment and ComReg is currently finalising a new requires me to carry out a review of designated scheme, the National Broadband Scheme. The events not later than three years after the passing scheme, when it is fully rolled out, will ensure 1403 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1404

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] the medium of Irish and English for the next that all reasonable requests for broadband from three years. The Scheme commits the Depart- houses and premises in areas unserved by broad- ment to work towards ensuring that all pre- band are met. Work on the design of an appro- recorded oral announcements to our customers priate public tender is under way. The tender will shall be in Irish, or in English and Irish. This be technology neutral, meaning all Service Pro- objective will be achieved by the end of the 3 year viders regardless of the platform over which a period. In the meantime, the telephone messages service is provided, can compete under the of the Department of Foreign Affairs are at tender process. present recorded in English.

Irish Language. Criminal Prosecutions. 182. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for 185. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Foreign Communications, Marine and Natural Resources Affairs if he will obtain an up to date report on the languages in which his Department’s tele- the police investigation into the case of a person phone messages are recorded; and if his Depart- (details supplied) in Dublin 11; and if he will ment’s messages include a version in the Irish lan- make a statement on the matter. [11921/07] guage. [11885/07] Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Minister for Communications, Marine and As the Deputy will be aware, the authorities in Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): My Bulgaria launched an investigation into the case Department has a telephonist assistant service in mentioned by him in June 2005 but it appears place to cover normal business hours. The that, as a result of administrative and personnel Department has facilities to utilise recorded tele- problems at the Regional Police Directorate in phone answering messages in both Irish and Sofia, there have been delays in the processing English outside of those hours. Staff are encour- of cases. aged to use both languages when recording their The Irish Embassy has been assured by the personal greeting for those occasions when their Bulgarian authorities that a decision will soon be assigned telephone extension is temporarily made on whether to proceed with a prosecution, unattended or engaged. and has been in direct contact with the person mentioned by the Deputy in order to ensure that Ministerial Appointments. she is fully informed of developments. I have 183. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for instructed the Embassy to continue to liaise with Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the Bulgarian authorities on this case and I will the number of appointments to State boards, contact the Deputy directly as soon as there is State bodies or other like entities which he envis- any further information. ages making or nominating in the period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify any 186. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Foreign such board, body or entity involved; and if he will Affairs if he will ask the Irish Consular auth- make a statement on the matter. [11971/07] orities if they will establish when or if the case of a person (details supplied) in Dublin 11 will pro- Minister for Communications, Marine and ceed to a court hearing as nothing has been heard Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The from the authorities in that State since November number of current vacancies as of 26 March 2007 2006; and if he will make a statement on the or falling due on or before 31 March 2007 is 55 matter. [11922/07] in all State Boards, State Bodies or other like entities. I intend to fill any vacancies that arise Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): between now and the end of May in the normal I would like to inform the Deputy, that on my way. instructions, the Irish Embassy in Madrid has made contact with the court authorities to ascer- Irish Language. tain when the case he referred to will be heard. I will communicate directly with the Deputy as 184. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Foreign soon as there is further information. Affairs the languages in which his Department’s telephone messages are recorded; and if his Ministerial Appointments. Department’s messages include a version in the Irish language. [11892/07] 187. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the number of appointments to Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): State boards, State bodies or other like entities The Department published its Scheme under which he envisages making or nominating in the Section 11 of the Official Languages Act 2003 in period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will November 2006. It details the services the identify any such board, body or entity involved; Department will provide through the medium of and if he will make a statement on the matter. Irish, through the medium of English and through [11978/07] 1405 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1406

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I Ukraine, suggesting that Irish business is becom- envisage making several appointments or nomi- ing more aware of commercial opportunities nations in the relevant period. The term of office there. of one member of the Ireland-United States Ireland has contributed to a number of Commission for Educational Exchange (the Ful- development projects in Ukraine. In particular, bright Commission) will come up for renewal in we are assisting in the area of administrative May 2007. The terms of office of the Administra- capacity building and would intend to continue to tive Council and Board of Management of the support Ukraine’s reform process to the degree FondationIrlandaise (the Irish Cultural Centre) in possible. Ireland is also an active participant in Paris expire in May and the composition of the the elaboration of EU policy to support Ukraine new Council and Board is currently under con- in the work of consolidating democracy and sideration. Ireland and France each appoints implementing economic reform under the Euro- seven members to the Administrative Council, pean Neighbourhood Policy Action Plan. In this while Ireland normally appoints 14 of the 15 regard, negotiations recently got under way on an members of the Management Board, which is a enhanced agreement between the EU and less formal subsidiary body of the Council. Ukraine.

Diplomatic Relations. Overseas Development Aid. 188. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for 189. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the position regarding Ireland’s Foreign Affairs if he will report on the implemen- relations with Ukraine; and if he will make a tation of the White Paper. [12112/07] statement on the matter. [12111/07] Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): The White Paper, published in September 2006, In recognition of the Ukrainian people’s choice sets out the direction that the Irish Aid prog- of democracy and reform in the Presidential elec- ramme will take over the coming years and reiter- tions of late 2004, Ireland took steps to ates the key principles that underlie our develop- strengthen bilateral links through increased con- ment efforts. It builds on the experience gained tact at political level with Ukraine. My visit to over our 32-year history and charts the path for Kiev in July 2005 and then Foreign Minister Tara- Ireland’s contribution to the achievement of the syuk’s return visit to Dublin in February 2006 Millennium Development Goals. were the first official bilateral visits at Foreign Many of the initiatives outlined in the White Minister level between our two countries since Paper are now underway and progressing suc- the establishment of diplomatic relations fifteen cessfully: years ago. The Ceann Comhairle and six members of the Oireachtas also visited Ukraine • We are in the final stages of the first in October 2005 and were received at the highest recruitment campaign for Ireland’s Rapid level; an invitation has been extended to the Response Corps. Establishment of the Speaker of the Ukrainian Parliament to make a Corps was a key element in the White return visit to Ireland in October. Paper. We have had a very positive Ukraine’s Parliamentary elections in March response to our call for skilled pro- 2006 consolidated the earlier democratic break- fessionals to apply to join the Corps. Inter- through. A new government was established in views are currently being conducted and August 2006. However, disputes centred on the training for successful applicants will begin relative powers of the President and the Prime at the end of April. Minister have persisted. The uncertain political • To further strengthen Ireland’s response to situation in Ukraine has caused some unavoid- disasters a new agreement has been able loss of momentum in bilateral relations. reached with the World Food Programme, Nevertheless, the procedure for periodic political for the pre-positioning of emergency sup- consultations between my Department and the plies at Brindisi, Italy, Accra in Ghana and Ukrainian Foreign Ministry agreed during my at the Curragh. The Irish Aid-funded sup- visit to Kiev was initiated with a high-level meet- plies are part of an international network ing last October. of bases designed to respond to major From a low base, the value of trade in goods crises within 48 hours of needs being and services between Ireland and Ukraine rose declared. from \59.2 million in 2004 to \96.3 million in 2005 and this trend is expected to continue. In June • In the coming weeks the first meeting of 2006, Minister of State Michael Ahern T.D. led the Interdepartmental Committee on Enterprise Ireland’s first Trade Mission to Development recommended in the White Ukraine. 21 Irish companies and organisations Paper will take place. The Committee will participated and a further trade mission is strengthen coherence in the Government’s planned later this year. There have been a overall approach to development and will number of significant Irish investments in ensure best use is made of the range of 1407 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1408

[Mr. D. Ahern.] of the Secretary-General’s Special Representa- expertise and skills available across the tive to Cyprus, Mr. Michael Moeller, to bring civil service. both sides together to seek progress toward a pol- • I will shortly announce the terms of refer- itical settlement. ence and membership for the Hunger Task The most recent initiative in this regard dates Force. The task force, made up of Irish and from July 2006, when UN Under Secretary international experts, will examine the General Gambari brokered an agreement particular contribution that Ireland can between President Papadopoulos and Mr make to tackling the root causes of chronic Mehmet Ali Talat, representing the Turkish food insecurity and hunger, particularly in Cypriot community, on a set of principles and Africa. decisions recognising that the status quo was unacceptable and that a comprehensive settle- • A key decision of the White Paper was to ment was both desirable and possible. They increase the number of partner countries in agreed to begin immediately a two-track process which Irish Aid works. Malawi was recently involving discussions by technical committees of designed as our ninth partner country and issues affecting the day-to-day life of the people a development cooperation programme is and, concurrently, of substantive issues leading to expected to begin there shortly. a comprehensive settlement. Regrettably • Increasing public understanding and however, these committees were not sub- awareness of the work of Irish Aid was sequently set up amid disagreements as to which another key decision in the White Paper. committee was responsible for which issues. Con- Last month a summary of the White Paper sultations to try to resolve the impasse resumed was distributed to every home in the coun- at the end of January 2007, under the auspices of try. We have had a very positive response. the Special Representative, but without success Over the past couple of months, over as yet. 50,000 people have downloaded the White On a more hopeful note, there have been some Paper and traffic on the Irish Aid website positive steps in recent months by both sides in has nearly tripled. Later this year, Irish Aid relation to access across the Green Line which will open an Information and Volunteering divides the communities. These have focused on Centre on Dublin’s O’Connell Street. The the Ledra Street Crossing in Nicosia, where most centre will be an important resource for recently the Cypriot authorities have removed a people interested in volunteering and in wall which has divided the communities there development issues more broadly. since 1963. We welcome this step, and all actions that help to create the conditions for the opening • Irish Aid is also working to implement the of these crossing points, which can in turn key decisions in the White Paper in areas increase the level of contact and confidence such as good governance, investing in social between the two communities. and productive sectors and in conflict pre- Ireland will continue, through our Embassy in vention and peace-building to ensure that Nicosia, to encourage both sides to renew their our programme is as effective as possible in commitment to the negotiating process and the tackling poverty and promoting the protec- achievement of the objective of a bizonal, tion of human rights and fundamental bicommunal federal State through an honour- freedoms. able, balanced and durable settlement protecting Full implementation of all the initiatives in the and guaranteeing the basic interests and aspir- White Paper is ongoing but we have made good ations of all. progress to date. The White Paper has set down a clear roadmap as the development assistance Question No. 191 answered with Question budget increases significantly over the coming No. 76. years. Question No. 192 answered with Question Foreign Conflicts. No. 73.

190. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Sports Funding. Foreign Affairs the position in relation to his efforts to support a solution to the Cyprus crisis; 193. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Arts, and if he will make a statement on the matter. Sport and Tourism the level of investment in [12113/07] sport over the past ten years; the sporting facilities that have been provided; the benefit to com- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): munities and sportsmen and sportswomen here; The United Nations has the lead role in the and if he will make a statement on the matter. search for a comprehensive settlement of the [11824/07] Cyprus problem. The Government fully supports the leadership of the UN Secretary General in Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. this important work, and we welcome the efforts O’Donoghue): The last ten years have seen a dra- 1409 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1410 matic increase in Government funding for Irish An Irish Institute of Sport has also been estab- sport, from \17 million in 1997 to over \295 mil- lished to deliver optimal support services for lion in 2007. By the end of 2006, the Government Olympic and Paralympic athletes and sports. had invested over \900 million directly into sport Government support for the horse and grey- since 1997, to support the promotion and hound racing industries is provided under the development of Irish sport and the provision of a Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund, as approved modern sporting infrastructure with high quality by the Oireachtas. Under the provisions of the facilities catering for the participation, coaching, Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001, the Fund training and competition needs of all levels and receives a guaranteed level of finance based on types of sport. This amount included expenditure the excise duty on off-course betting. Since 2001, under the Sports Capital Programme and the this Fund has provided a guaranteed level of Local Authority Swimming Pool Programme; funding to Horse Racing Ireland and Bord na funding allocated to the Irish Sports Council, gCon, which, by the end of 2006, amounted to Horse Racing Ireland and Bord na gCon; and \317 million and \79 million respectively. In spending on the redevelopment of Lansdowne 2007, the horse and greyhound racing industries Road, Croke Park and the development of a will receive over \58 million and \14 million sports campus at Abbotstown. respectively from the Fund. This commitment to Sports funding, mainly through the National funding has enabled Horse Racing Ireland and Lottery-funded sport capital programme adminis- Bord na gCon to undertake a programme of capi- tered by my Department, has been enormously tal investment that has underpinned a growth in beneficial to clubs, sports organisations and vol- the sectors. untary and community groups in virtually every Government funding to Croke Park amounts village, parish and town throughout the country. \ \ to approximately 114 million. This includes an In the past ten years, a total of over 494.8 mil- allocation of \3.65m at the end of 2006 towards lion has been allocated in sports capital funding the installation of floodlights, which has further to 6,296 projects in villages, towns and parishes enhanced what can now be regarded as a world- throughout the country, with special attention class stadium. This 82,300-capacity modern being given to facilities in areas of social and facility, fully equipped to cater for hurling, foot- economic disadvantage. ball and camogie matches, is a fitting platform for The projects funded include the provision and players, both male and female, to display their development of facilities such as natural playing talents. The stadium has also been the venue for surfaces, synthetic and all-weather playing sur- Ireland’s International Rules matches against faces, changing facilities, floodlighting, indoor Australia, hosted the ceremonies for the Special sports halls, and a vast range of sports equipment. Olympics held here in Ireland in 2003 and accom- While the majority of the funding has been to modate recent rugby and soccer internationals in local clubs and organisations, it has also catered for the development of sporting infrastructure at Croke Park, an arrangement which will continue regional and national level, thereby increasing the this year and next. general participation in sport while also enhanc- In January 2004, the Government agreed to \ ing the level of coaching and competitiveness. provide funding of 191 million towards the Significant national sporting centres funded redevelopment of Lansdowne Road Stadium as a include those for the sports of Rowing, Hockey, 50,000-capacity all-seater state-of-the-art facility. \ Boxing and Tennis. Expenditure to date amounts to almost 23 mil- Grant aid under the Local Authority Swim- lion. The recent decision by An Bord Pleana´la ming Pool Programme from 1997 to end February has now cleared the way for the redevelopment of 2007 amounts to \93,677,542. The provision of Lansdowne Road to commence. The new stadium sufficient public swimming pools throughout the will meet the needs of the modern games of rugby country, catering for both current and potential and soccer while also providing a platform to demand, is essential to broader societal goals for showcase the talent of our international teams to healthy adult lifestyles and the promotion of all the world, allowing them to build on the progress aspects of children’s development. that they have made to date. The Irish Sports Council, the statutory body The Government is committed to the develop- with responsibility for the development of sport, ment of a campus of sports facilities at has received funding totalling \204.6 million since Abbotstown, which can be seen as a real and tan- it was established in 1999 up to the end of 2006. gible symbol of Ireland’s determination to com- The Sports Council’s funding allocation for 2007 pete on the international stage by ensuring that stands at over \54 million. This money has been our sports men and women have at their disposal spent on initiating, developing and enhancing a cutting edge sporting facilities. The National wide range of programmes aimed at increasing Aquatic Centre, which opened in 2003, was the participation and raising standards in Irish sport, first facility developed at the Sports Campus at including direct support in terms of grant-aid and Abbotstown. The capital expenditure on the indirect support in terms of sport science and Centre was almost \71 million and the Centre medical backup to elite and top aspiring athletes. was completed on time and within budget. 1411 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1412

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. The Government has provided an amount of O’Donoghue): The sports capital programme, \149 million under the National Development which is administered by my Department, allo- Plan 2007 to 2013 for the development of the cates funding to sporting and to voluntary and Abbotstown Campus. This comprises \119 mil- community organisations at local, regional and lion to fund Phase One of the Campus project national level throughout the country. The prog- and \30 million, committed at this stage, towards ramme is advertised on an annual basis. the development of further facilities in the next The amount of sports capital funding allocated phase of development. on a county basis in each of the past ten years is contained in the following tabular statement. The facilities to be provided in Phase One of The 2007 sports capital programme was adver- the project will include: a National Field Sports tised in the Press on 15 and 16 October last. The training centre, catering for rugby, soccer, Gaelic closing date for receipt of applications was 24 games and hockey; a National Indoor Training November 2006. All applications received before Centre which will provide world class training the deadline are being evaluated against the prog- facilities for over 30 Governing Bodies of Sport; ramme’s assessment criteria, which are outlined accommodation for sports men and women; in the guidelines, terms and conditions of the sports science/ medical facilities; all-weather syn- programme. I intend to announce the grant allo- thetic pitches for community use; and renovation cations for the 2007 programme in the coming of existing buildings to cater for needs identified weeks. by sports bodies. Payments in respect of allocations under the sports capital programme and of other sports This unprecedented level of investment in capital grants such as those towards the establish- sport is clear evidence of the importance that the ment of key regional and national facilities and Government attaches to establishing modern, to national governing bodies of sport are made well-equipped and well-managed sporting facili- from the national lottery-funded C1 subhead of ties supported by a wide range of programmes my Department’s Vote. The total amount pro- that are significantly benefiting our communities. vided for in the subhead for payments to grantees progressing or completing their projects in 2007 is \63,092,000. Sports Capital Programme. Under the National Development Plan (2007- 2013) an investment of \991 million will be made 194. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Arts, in sports infrastructure over the period of the Sport and Tourism the regional breakdown of the Plan to ensure the provision of recreational facili- allocation of sports capital lottery funds over the ties on a nationwide basis, including local swim- past ten years; the level of funding that may be ming pools, the facilities at the Sports Campus at available in 2007 and the next five years; and if he Abbotstown and the redevelopment of will make a statement on the matter. [11826/07] Lansdowne Road. 1413 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1414 Sports Capital Funding by County 1997-2006 \\\\\\\\\\\ County 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 Total CarlowCavanClareCork 82,533Donegal 168,875Dublin 228,553Galway 55,868 3,984,438Kerry 121,895 226,013Kildare 2,821,358 126,974 120,625 401,237Kilkenny 1,237,995 256,487 333,941 1,580,189Laois 196,809 3,249,260 595,507 2,312,193Leitrim 369,494 198,079 247,599 452,027 6,466,776 203,158Limerick 1,170,699 3,850,481 5,142,439Longford 1,168,159 355,527 1,378,301 15,579,305 2,269,022Louth 591,698 63,487 74,915 4,769,132 3,211,168 48,250 898,975 297,119Mayo 13,908,710 2,515,351 489,000 1,512,258 901,514Meath 69,836 691,200 7,257,000 5,049,000 23,075,900 1,123,000 71,105 339,020Monaghan 2,541,381 330,132 57,138 3,192,122 1,258,310 440,000 109,197Offaly 14,605,500 5,545,400 1,177,500 1,125,000 580,000 35,553 217,125 3,853,655Roscommon 622,172 3,058,000 529,481 2,119,193 241,250 350,448 797,396 14,691,000Sligo 76,184 632,000 126,974 6,524,000 1,802,000 1,727,000 1,075,000 4,870,000Tipperary 2,558,000 110,467 166,336 3,335,200 66,026 15,897,652 437,425 763,747 132,053Waterford 146,020 956,113 83,803 8,374,000 1,572,000 666,612 446,000 275,533 1,356,000 3,166,000 23,699,037Westmeath 3,435,014 785,000 3,748,000 1,197,363 751,685 1,116,500 629,790 440,599 2,705,812 71,105Wexford 199,349 9,719,500 2,977,500 132,325,427 88,882 279,342 1,940,000 248,869 228,553 3,357,000 439,964 777,500 559,954 6,260,000 1,315,000Wicklow 4,476,000 1,189,000 74,280 53,674,448 24,707,808 2,776,000 648,836 942,500 982,777 143,480 1,192,284 9,893,010 419,014 120,625Total 1,750,000 401,237 4,581,179 1,339,574 4,108,500 6,114,636 502,181 3,603,000 167,605 311,086 821,600 2,485,500 450,000 1,625,265 128,244 215,855 1,477,975 759,400 850,000 1,821,500 495,198 26,897,002 2,545,000 714,863 402,507 4,087,500 688,198 615,823 299,658 152,369 454,800 1,925,000 11,829,514 2,284,000 25,451,267 1,605,000 786,000 1,384,000 1,042,455 859,613 24,479,751 1,342,100 1,206,251 576,000 85,072 591,063 1,233,000 1,010,711 618,997 3,392,000 7,554,942 1,574,600 492,658 479,000 2,560,000 1,891,000 1,802,393 1,644,000 771,000 1,301,000 651,376 745,000 1,250,692 267,915 3,133,714 25,382,064 5,429,000 1,594,000 485,000 1,227,837 405,000 2,260,000 8,094,321 2,478,000 660,000 1,377,000 1,283,000 1,319,258 45,496,874 777,600 1,527,600 1,115,465 3,253,000 21,094,072 703,000 1,422,000 1,004,000 1,576,000 996,000 915,481 1,657,000 2,844,000 6,870,552 56,179,561 953,000 2,569,000 1,027,000 1,405,600 2,210,000 963,000 2,390,000 1,157,000 2,670,000 726,000 12,163,332 78,830,400 2,206,000 2,398,000 944,000 4,656,548 1,813,000 2,080,000 707,000 12,885,893 880,000 1,453,000 14,117,069 1,260,000 53,358,500 5,125,777 1,221,000 2,177,000 2,544,500 1,003,000 1,925,000 1,083,000 1,148,000 61,783,014 2,020,000 2,954,000 1,887,000 3,631,000 7,894,426 1,700,000 1,787,000 66,233,652 1,905,000 7,610,859 1,306,000 8,709,367 16,265,125 2,267,000 16,095,241 88,185,997 1,527,000 1,447,000 9,833,836 2,412,500 494,834,518 10,743,771 2,323,960 13,092,931 11,456,867 1415 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1416

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] in the period referred to by the Deputy on the Boards of the key bodies under the aegis of my 195. Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Arts, Department. Sport and Tourism the time scale for the next A vacancy currently exists on the Board of the round of sports capital national lottery appli- National Library of Ireland for a member of staff cations and funding; and if he will make a state- of the National Library of Ireland and consul- ment on the matter. [11827/07] tations are in hand for the making of this appointment as set out in Section 19 (6) of the National Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Cultural Institutions Act, 1997. O’Donoghue): The sports capital programme, There are currently six vacancies on the Board which is administered by my Department, is the of the Irish Museum of Modern Art, IMMA. primary means of providing funding to sporting Appointments to the Board are made in accord- and community organisations towards the pro- ance with the provisions of the Articles of Associ- vision of sporting facilities at local, regional and ation of IMMA. national level throughout the country. The prog- There is currently one vacancy on the Board of ramme is advertised on an annual basis. Governors and Guardians of the National Gal- The 2007 sports capital programme was adver- lery of Ireland. There will be an additional vac- tised in the Press on 15 and 16 October last. The ancy on the Board from 31st March 2007. The closing date for receipt of applications was 24 National Gallery of Ireland, Board of Governors November 2006. All applications received before and Guardians was constituted under the the deadline are being evaluated against the prog- National Gallery of Ireland Acts, 1854-55. ramme’s assessment criteria, which are outlined Four vacancies will arise on the Board of Fa´ilte in the guidelines, terms and conditions of the Ireland on the 28th May 2007. Appointments to programme. I intend to announce the grant allo- the Board are made in accordance with the pro- cations for the programme in the coming weeks. cedures set out in Section 14 of the National Arrangements for the 2008 sports capital prog- Tourism Development Authority Act 2003. ramme have not yet been decided. In appointing persons to the Boards of key bodies under the aegis of my Department I follow Irish Language. the guidelines set out in the Cabinet Handbook 196. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Arts, regarding eligibility, transparency and gender Sport and Tourism the languages in which his balance. Department’s telephone messages are recorded; and if his Department’s messages include a ver- Question No. 198 answered with Question sion in the Irish language. [11884/07] No. 94.

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Arts Plan. O’Donoghue): In line with my Department’s 199. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, Scheme under Section 11 of the Official Langu- Sport and Tourism the degree to which his ages Act, 2003, the pre-recorded messages which Department controls policy in respect of the arts; are in place when the Department’s Offices are and if he will make a statement on the matter. closed or when the switchboard operator is busy [12094/07] are in both the Irish and English languages. Although the National Archives forms part of Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. my Department, it is designated as a separate O’Donoghue): My policy on the arts is to pro- public body in the First Schedule to the Official mote and strengthen the arts in all its forms, Languages Act, 2003 and is not covered by the increase access to and participation in the arts, Department’s Scheme. The National Archives and make the arts an integral and valued part of switchboard is manned at all times and therefore our national life. pre-recorded messages are not used. Responsibility for the promotion of the arts at all levels throughout the country is primarily Ministerial Appointments. devolved to the Arts Council. The Arts Council 197. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for is the principal agency through which State fund- Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of appointing is channelled to the arts. Under the Arts Act, ments to State boards, State bodies or other like 2003, the general functions of the Council include entities which he envisages making or nominating the following: to stimulate public interest in the in the period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if arts; to promote knowledge, appreciation and he will identify any such board, body or entity practice of the arts; to assist in improving stan- involved; and if he will make a statement on the dards in the arts. matter. [11970/07] The Arts Council is a statutorily independent body, funded by my Department and indepen- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. dent in its day-to-day operations, including in O’Donoghue): The following are the list of cur- relation to its funding decisions. During my own rent vacancies and vacancies that are due to arise term as the Minister responsible for the arts, 1417 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1418 funding for the Arts Council has increased by Government funding of the Irish horse and almost 68% from \47.67 million in 2002 to \80 greyhound racing industries through the Horse million in 2007. These are significant amounts of and Greyhound Racing Fund has enabled a prog- money in any context and have transformed and ramme of capital investment in horse and grey- increased access to the arts and allowed the Arts hound racing tracks in recent years which has Council to support artists and arts organisations underpinned a growth in both sectors. This will nationwide. continue under the new National Development My Department has taken a more direct role Plan for 2007-2013 which includes a provision of in relation to the provision of grant-aid for arts \70 million for both industries and will enable and culture infrastructure and has provided sub- Horse Racing Ireland and Bord na gCon to stantial funding for the capital development of undertake the further development of a network facilities around the country in recent years. For of racing stadium facilities. example, my Department has provided over The Deputy will be aware that my Department \43m to 40 arts facilities through the Arts and is currently developing a national Sports Facility Culture Capital Enhancement Support Scheme Strategy. The intention is that, when completed, (ACCESS). Furthermore I hope to shortly the Strategy will provide better policy direction announce the successful applicants under the new for future investment and grant assistance at round of ACCESS II funding. ACCESS has been national, regional and local level. Consultants widely acknowledged as a significant intervention have been recently engaged by the Department in the provision of quality cultural spaces to assist in this process and are currently manag- throughout the country. ing a consultation process to establish the views of sporting bodies, Local Sports Partnerships and Sports Capital Programme. any other interested parties on the future pro- 200. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, vision of sports facilities by Government. This Sport and Tourism if he has had recent dis- consultation process will offer National Govern- cussions with the various sporting authorities in ing Bodies of Sport an unique opportunity to regard to the development of their various stadia; have a say in the design of the future strategy for and if he will make a statement on the matter. sports facilities in Ireland. The Strategy should be [12095/07] completed by the Summer.

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. Tourism Industry. O’Donoghue): Funding made available by my 201. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, Department can be provided through a number Sport and Tourism the degree to which it is of channels to sporting bodies and there are anticipated to meet the travel and accom- ongoing lines of communications through which modation requirements of the tourist industry in the needs of sporting bodies are conveyed to the the future with particular reference to expected Department including those relating to their developments in the aftermath of the Open Skies plans and aspirations for stadia. I have discussed policy; and if he will make a statement on the stadia needs of National Governing Bodies at a number of meetings in the context of the allo- matter. [12096/07] cation of funding for such projects. The principal ongoing source of Government Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. funding for sports facilities is the Sports Capital O’Donoghue): I believe that the proposed Open Programme and since 1998, capital funding of Skies agreement between the EU and the US rep- \483m has been provided to 5,781 projects. resents a very positive development for Irish Included among these projects is a network of top Tourism. It has been a major objective of tourism quality national facilities including stadia for var- policy and has long been supported by industry ious sports bodies. These include the National interests and endorsed by the Tourism Policy Rowing Centre at Inniscarra, the National Tennis Review Group. The new services to the US will Centre, the National Boxing Stadium, the facilitate the opening of new markets for Irish National Hockey Stadium at UCD, GAA County tourism. In this regard, I know that the airline grounds, soccer stadia and rugby stadia. carriers will be anxious to exploit the new oppor- In addition there are separate individual prog- tunities. rammes of funding for major sports projects Aer Lingus has already announced that it pro- including the Government contribution to invest- poses to commence new services to San Franci- ments at Croke Park (\114m) for the GAA, sco, Orlando and Washington Dulles later this Lansdowne Road Stadium (\191m) for the IRFU year. and FAI jointly, and the development of the In terms of the additional accommodation National Aquatic Centre which benefit a number requirements, I am aware that Fa´ilte Ireland’s of water sports and leisure water activities and Hotel Survey recorded an annual room occu- the National Sports Campus at Abbotstown pancy of 64% in 2006 indicating that, throughout which will provide facilities for the benefit of over the year and across the regions, there is capacity 30 Governing Bodies of Sport. available in the hotel sector. 1419 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1420

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] door training needs of Irish elite sportspersons Developments will, of course, be kept under who compete at national and international levels review by the Tourism Strategy Implementation and will also provide for the needs of the local Group and the Tourism Agencies to ensure that community. Preliminary planning for this phase the Irish Tourism industry benefits to the has commenced and the National Sports Campus maximum extent from this excellent new Development Authority is currently preparing a opportunity. Tender to appoint a Design and Project Manage- ment Team for the project. It is too early in the Decentralisation Programme. development stage of the project to have projected statistics for utilisation of the facilities but 202. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, the National Governing Bodies have confirmed Sport and Tourism the degree to which his their willingness to use the facility extensively, Department has concluded its decentralisation when it is developed. programme; and if he will make a statement on The facilities to be provided in Phase One of the matter. [12097/07] the project will include: a National Field Sports training centre, catering for rugby, soccer, Gaelic Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. games and hockey; a National Indoor Training O’Donoghue): As the Deputy is aware, my Centre which will provide world class training Department was designated under the Govern- facilities for over 30 Governing Bodies of Sport; ment’s decentralisation programme as one of the accommodation for sports men and women; “early mover” Departments. The tender process sports science/ medical facilities; all-weather syn- in respect of the permanent building was com- thetic pitches for community use; and renovation pleted some time ago and the Office of Public Works (OPW) selected the preferred bidder, P. of existing buildings to cater for needs identified J. Hegarty & Sons. Planning permission has been by sports bodies. granted. The OPW expects the developer to be The Government decision for this stage of on site shortly and the building is expected to be development included agreement to move the ready for occupation by mid 2008. HQ of FAI to the former State Laboratory build- The total number of staff in the Department is ing at Abbotstown. Planning permission for a 130. Of that number, 47 staff (including 2 new change of use for the State Laboratory was Service Officers) have now moved to temporary secured and work on the building is about to get accommodation in Fossa, Killarney. In the sum- underway. Subject to suitable terms on the lease mer of 2007, the Department will decentralise a being finalised, it is expected that the FAI will further 22 posts to the temporary offices in Fossa. relocate there during this year. It is also intended Units from each of the sectoral areas of Arts, to provide a headquarters for the Institute for Sport and Tourism have been selected for Sport by refurbishing an existing building on the inclusion in the second phase of the advance site and the Institute should be based there later move. The temporary accommodation is capable this year. of accommodating up to 70 officers. A planning study for the Abbotstown site has The final phase, i.e. the move to the permanent recently been completed by an inter-agency accommodation in Killarney town is now group, which included the Department of Arts, expected to take place by mid 2008. Sport and Tourism, which was undertaken under the provisions of the Fingal County Development Plan. This Study sets out the mix of sporting, National Stadium. leisure, and amenity facilities that would be 203. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, appropriate for the site. The Planning Study was Sport and Tourism his proposals for the future presented to Fingal County Council and was con- development at Campus Stadium Ireland; and if sidered at a Council Meeting on 12 March. A pro- he will make a statement on the matter. posal to change the Zoning of a large portion of [12099/07] the site to “Open Space” to allow for Sports Use and for the woodland area of the site is to be Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. zoned “High Amenity” will be considered by the O’Donoghue): With regard to the future develop- Council before the summer. ment of the National Sports Campus at In January, under the National Sports Campus Abbotstown, the Government has provided an Development Authority Act 2006, the National amount of \149m under the National Develop- Sports Campus Development Authority was ment Plan 2007 to 2013 for the development of a established on a statutory basis to succeed in Campus of Sports Facilities. This comprises function and responsibility Campus and Stadium \119m to fund Phase One of the Campus project Ireland Development Company Ltd (CSID). To and \30m, committed at this stage, towards the coincide with the coming into being of the new development of further facilities in the next phase Authority, the Board was appointed which was of development. composed of a judicious mix of the Board The facilities to be provided in Phase One of Members of the former company CSID and some the development will meet the indoor and out- new faces who will bring their particular expertise 1421 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1422 to the tasks facing the new Authority, under the programme. I intend to announce the grant allo- Chairmanship of Mr Dan Flinter. In addition to cations for the programme, including those for overseeing the development of Phase One of the County Kildare, in the coming weeks. Campus, the new Board has been requested to The total amount provided for in the subhead identify and prioritise the next phase of the for payments of sports capital grants in 2007 is development of the Abbotstown project. \63,092,000. It is not possible to state at this stage The Abbotstown facilities, when completed how much of the subhead provision will be paid will provide a much needed range of training and to grantees from County Kildare in 2007 as pay- competitive facilities for our sportspersons who ments are dependant on grantees themselves pro- continue to represent our country with passion, gressing or completing their projects and pride and success. satisfying the conditions for grant payments as outlined in the guidelines, terms and conditions Sports Capital Programme. of the sports capital programme. 204. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the amount of allocations Irish Language. from the proceeds of the National Lottery to 207. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for County Kildare in the year 2006; his expected Enterprise, Trade and Employment the langu- expenditure under these headings in 2007; and if ages in which his Department’s telephone mess- he will make a statement on the matter. ages are recorded; and if his Department’s mess- [12100/07] ages include a version in the Irish language. [11889/07] 205. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the degree to which he Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- expects to increase expenditure by his Depart- ment (Mr. Martin): The Department’s telephone ment from the proceeds of the National Lottery messages are recorded in English only. The in 2007; and if he will make a statement on the inclusion of an Irish version is currently under matter. [12101/07] review. My Department is fully committed to the 206. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Arts, implementation of the Official Languages Act Sport and Tourism the degree to which he 2003. It is already fulfilling many of the require- expects to award grant aid from the proceeds of ments of the 2003 Act. the National Lottery to the various eligible projects throughout the country; his projected expen- Community Employment Schemes. diture in 2007 under this heading; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12102/07] 208. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. review the situation in relation to the eligibility O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. of people at 29 years of age having completed the 204 to 206, inclusive, together. community employment scheme cycle to continue The sports capital programme, which is admin- on this scheme. [11905/07] istered by my Department, is the primary means of providing funding to sporting and community Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- organisations towards the provision of sporting ment (Mr. Martin): Community Employment facilities at local, regional and national level (CE) is an active labour market programme throughout the country. The programme is adver- designed to provide eligible long term unem- tised on an annual basis. ployed people and other disadvantaged persons Payments in respect of allocations under the (including those with a disability) with an oppor- sports capital programme and of other sports tunity to engage in useful work within their com- capital grants such as those towards the establish- munities on a fixed term basis. CE helps unem- ment of key regional and national facilities and ployed people to re-enter the active workforce by to national governing bodies of sport are made breaking their experience of unemployment from the national lottery-funded C1 subhead of through a return to a work routine and to assist my Department’s Vote. them to enhance/develop both their technical and The amount of grant aid allocated under the personal skills. subhead to County Kildare in the year 2006 was As part of the restructuring of CE approved in \1,821,500. 1999, future participation in CE by an individual The 2007 sports capital programme was adver- was capped at 3 years, effective from April, 2000. tised in the Press on 15 and 16 October last. The This change was introduced to discourage closing date for receipt of applications was 24 repeated participation in CE and to encourage November 2006. All applications received before unemployed persons to avail of the deadline are being evaluated against the prog- training/education options where possible, which ramme’s assessment criteria, which are outlined are shown to have more successful progression in the guidelines, terms and conditions of the outcomes for individuals. The three-year cap was 1423 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1424

[Mr. Martin.] Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- amended in August 2001 to allow particularly dis- ment (Mr. Martin): The management of IDA advantaged persons to remain on the programme Ireland’s industrial property portfolio, including for a further period. In general, approximately the purchase of land is a day-to-day operational 20% of participants including persons less than 55 matter for the agency and not a matter in which years of age may benefit from an additional year I have a function. on the programme under the flexibility guidelines I understand from IDA Ireland that the agency introduced in August 2001. is in discussion with Teagasc regarding the pur- In November 2004, it was decided that the 3- chase of lands at Mellows College, Athenry, Co year cap would be extended for CE participants Galway. As of yet no contracts have been signed aged over 55. This category of participants is now but both parties are optimistic that contracts will eligible to participate on CE for a maximum of be completed in the near future. 6 years. In July 2006 my Department published its Sec- Ministerial Appointments. toral Plan under the Disability Act, 2005. One of 211. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for the key highlights of this Plan is to increase par- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number ticipation rates of people with disabilities on CE of appointments to State boards, State bodies or over the period of the Plan and to raise the CE other like entities which he envisages making or participation limits for people with disabilities, in nominating in the period 26 March 2007 to 31 order to provide additional training to assist pro- May 2007; if he will identify any such board, body gression to employment: for people with dis- or entity involved; and if he will make a statement abilities under 55 years of age, the participation on the matter. [11975/07] limit has been raised by one year from 3 to 4 years; for people with disabilities over 55 years of Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- age, the participation limit has also been raised ment (Mr. Martin): Some 2 appointments will be by one year from 6 to 7 years. made to the Board of Enterprise Ireland before I am informed by FA´ S that the participation 31 May 2007. Some 2 appointments will be made limits to which I have referred will continue to be to the Board of Shannon Development before 31 operated flexibly at local level. May 2007. Appointments to the Board are made by myself, with the agreement of the Minister for Health and Safety Regulations. Finance and the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. One appointment will be made to the 209. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Board of Forfa´s arising from the resignation of Enterprise, Trade and Employment the steps the acting Director General of Science Found- members of the Arts Council have taken to ation Ireland. The legislation provides that the satisfy themselves that the appropriate standards Director General of SFI must be on the Board of of health and safety for both circus workers and Forfa´s. Accordingly the incoming Director members of the public visiting circuses are General of SFI will be appointed to the board of implemented and adhered to by circuses (details Forfa´s on appointment. However I do not expect supplied). [11927/07] this to happen until possibly July of this year. Some 3 appointments to the Board of the Minister of State at the Department of NSAI will be made in April of this year. Some Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. 13 appointments consisting of 12 members and Killeen): The Arts Council comes under the remit a chairperson will be made to the Board of the of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism. National Consumer Agency, on enactment of the The Deputy’s question should accordingly be Consumer Protection Bill. It is most likely that addressed to the Minister responsible for that the Bill will be enacted within the timeframe Department, Mr. John O’Donoghue, T.D. referred to in the question and that the Board of The Health and Safety Authority is responsible the Agency shall be appointed by the Minister for the enforcement of occupational health and prior to the start of June. Some 6 Rights Commis- safety standards and would be happy to provide sioners will be appointed before 31 May 2007, 5 information in that regard to the Deputy in under the terms of Towards 2016, and I arising relation to circuses. from a vacancy. As 4 members of the Board of the NCC are Industrial Development. required to retire on 31 May each year, 4 appointments will be made subsequent to these retire- 210. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for ments. Some 16 appointments will be made Enterprise, Trade and Employment if the lands before 31 May 2007, to the Expert Group on earmarked for an industrial park (details Future Skills Needs, which has recently com- supplied) in County Galway have been purchased pleted its term of office. The Group will be in from Teagasc; if the contract has been signed; if place until end-2009. Appointments to the Advis- this land is in the ownership of the IDA; and if he ory Board of the NERA may be made before 31 will make a statement on the matter. [11937/07] May 2007. 1425 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1426

Redundancy Payments. good faith and consequently are prepared to give 212. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for serious consideration to the Court’s recom- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the reason a mendations. statutory redundancy payment was not made to a Recommendations of the Labour Court are not person (details supplied) in County Carlow; and legally binding however and ultimately, responsi- if he will make a statement on the matter. bility for the settlement of a trade dispute rests [11986/07] with the parties to the dispute.

Minister of State at the Department of Overseas Trade Missions. Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. 214. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Killeen): From enquiries made in the Redun- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will dancy Payments section of this Department, I report on efforts to improve trade with Ukraine; understand that the person concerned, who was and if he will make a statement on the matter. made redundant on 11th March 2005, received a [12110/07] statutory redundancy payment of \49,800.00 from his employer in respect of his employment from Minister of State at the Department of 30 September 1963 to 11th March 2005. He Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. M. signed Form RP2 acknowledging receipt of the Ahern): The Government’s efforts to strengthen statutory redundancy payment. A period of lay- off due to strike action, from 8th July to 8th Irish exports to Ukraine are primarily channelled August 1980 and from 16 to 26 September 1984, through Enterprise Ireland (EI). Since late 2004, which amounted to 43 days, was deducted from following the “Orange Revolution” in that coun- the calculation of total service. try, a number of initiatives have been undertaken An employee must seek a statutory redun- by the EI office in Moscow (which also services dancy lump sum or part thereof from his former the Ukraine), to increase and deepen trade ties employer within 12 months from the date of between the two countries. termination of his employment. If he were dissat- Following a successful EI seminar on business isfied with the Redundancy Lump Sum he could in Ukraine in 2005, I myself led Ireland’s first have lodged an appeal with the Employment ever official Trade Mission to that country in Appeals Tribunal also within 12 months from the June 2006. 21 companies and organisations par- date of termination. The Employment Appeals ticipated, including representatives of state and Tribunal has discretion to extend this 12-month semi-state bodies. Over 100 buyer meetings were period to 2 years. As it is now over 2 years since directly brokered by EI during the course of the the redundancy in question, the person concerned mission. In June this year, EI will run a 5 day is now out of time for bringing a claim for any Market Study Visit to Ukraine for a delegation balance of his statutory redundancy payment of their client companies. This visit will concen- before the Employment Appeals Tribunal. trate on the capital, Kyiv, but will also afford participants the opportunity to explore business Industrial Disputes. opportunities in Lviv, in Western Ukraine, where a number of Irish companies have set up 213. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for operations. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the com- EI has, over the past 2 years, built up a substan- pliance which can be enforced in respect of a tial network of Ukrainian contacts and support Labour Court hearing and decision in the matter resources, and has focused its efforts on sectors of a person (details supplied) in County Kildare; such as IT and Telecommunications, Financial and if he will make a statement on the matter. Services/ Banking Systems, Education, Medical [12103/07] Devices and Agricultural Machinery, which have Minister of State at the Department of been identified as markets likely to generate the Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. most opportunities in the short to medium term Killeen): The Labour Court conducts hearings on for Irish industry. Linkages have been developed trade disputes and then issues recommendations with local trade and business associations and setting out its opinion on the dispute and the with private contractors, to provide logistic sup- terms on which it should be settled. The law on port for Irish companies when they visit the industrial relations disputes does not generally Ukrainian market. seek to impose a solution on the parties to a dis- In 2006, EI launched a Ukrainian domain cor- pute but rather seeks to assist them in arriving at porate website, www.enterprise-ireland.com.ua,to a solution. provide Ukrainian businesses with economic I understand that the Labour Court held a information about Ireland and to highlight the hearing in relation to the dispute referred to by activities of Irish companies active there. The the deputy and their Recommendation on the website is in Russian and readily accessible as a matter issued in August 2006. As it is a Court of valuable information resource for the large last resort in the industrial relations process, it is section of the Ukrainian population who are expected that the parties come to the process in native and second language Russian speakers. It 1427 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1428

[Mr. M. Ahern.] welfare payments, such as disability allowance, is planned to add Ukrainian language content to invalidity pension and blind person’s pension. the website later this year. People resident in the State who are in receipt of Irish merchandise exports to Ukraine increased a social security invalidity or disability payment by 49% between 2004 and 2005 and by 8% from a country covered by EU Regulations, or between 2005 and 2006, when they reached from a country with which Ireland has a bilateral \25.2m. Irish services exports to Ukraine have social security agreement, and who have been in shown an even more dramatic change, with an receipt of this payment for at least 12 months, are increase of 71% to \60m between 2004 and 2005 also eligible for free travel. (the latest full year for which services data is There have been a number of requests and available). Merchandise imports from Ukraine enquiries in relation to the extension of entitle- have also been increasing and currently stand at ment to free travel in Ireland to Irish born people \9.3m for 2006, while services imports were \4m living outside Ireland, or to those in receipt of in 2005. pensions from my Department, particularly in the Discussions have been ongoing for some time UK, when they return to Ireland for a visit. to conclude a Double Taxation Agreement with I have been advised that it would not be pos- Ukraine, which would significantly reduce the sible to extend entitlement to free travel simply barriers to international business and trade to Irish born people living abroad as to do so between our two countries. would be contrary to European legislation which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of Irish Language. nationality. More recently, the European Com- mission has indicated that to extend the scheme 215. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Social to people in receipt of an Irish pension could also and Family Affairs the languages in which his be considered discriminatory. Department’s telephone messages are recorded; and if his Department’s messages include a ver- I have raised the issue with Commissioner sion in the Irish language. [11895/07] Spidla and officials from my Department met with European Commission officials on a number Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. of occasions in an effort to clarify the legal issues Brennan): My Department endeavours to ensure involved. I am keeping this issue under review. that customers who make contact by telephone speak directly to a telephonist or an officer. Social Welfare Benefits. Therefore, my Department uses limited pre- 217. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for Social recorded oral announcements in the delivery of and Family Affairs his views on whether families its schemes and services. Pre-recorded messages in receipt of social welfare payments, with chil- are confined to Lo-call numbers and the dren over the age of 22 years in full time edu- announcements are currently recorded in cation, should have the payments for these chil- English. dren granted until they are finished their I am aware of my Department’s obligations education and that age should not have a bearing under the Official Languages Act. When the on this; and if he will make a statement on the regulations in relation to pre-recorded oral matter. [11910/07] announcements are finalised, this service will be provided on all pre-recorded telephone messages. Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. Brennan): Most social welfare payments provide Departmental Schemes. for an increase in respect of qualified children. 216. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for Social Social welfare customers in receipt of a long and Family Affairs his views on whether in view term payment or in receipt of a short term pay- of the recent announcement that the free travel ment for more than six months can claim an scheme is being extended to travel within increase for each child who is over 18 years and Northern Ireland, it is now a perfect time to intro- up to age 22 and attending a full-time day course duce free travel to all Irish pensioners regardless of education at an institute of education. If the of their country of residence; and if he will make child reaches age 22 during an academic year a statement on the matter. [11908/07] while attending a full-time day course of education, they continue to be regarded as a qualified Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. child up to the end of that academic year, pro- Brennan): The free travel scheme is available to vided they continue to receive full-time all people living in the State aged 66 years or education. over. All carers in receipt of carer’s allowance I am satisfied that this provision assists social and carers of people in receipt of constant attend- welfare recipients in supporting a qualified child ance or prescribed relative’s allowance, regard- dependant up to and including primary degree less of their age, also receive a free travel pass. level in most cases. Any improvement could only The scheme is also available to people under be considered in a budgetary context and in light age 66 who are in receipt of certain disability type of competing priorities. 1429 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1430

I have no immediate plans to change current The removal of the remuneration limit was due arrangements but I will keep the matter under to the recognition that traditional differences in review. pay and conditions between manual and non- manual workers had been gradually eroded, that Grant Payments. the borderline between what constitutes manual work and non-manual work had become blurred 218. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social and and that similar arrangements in European social Family Affairs when the oral hearing in relation security codes were gradually being removed. to the appeal for a respite care grant for 2005 for Accordingly, it was decided there were arguments a person (details supplied) in County Mayo will for treating manual and non-manual workers be scheduled as the delay is most unfair in view equally within the social insurance system. of the fact that the matter has been ongoing for There is no record of a legal challenge in many months. [11911/07] relation to these provisions. Decisions made by Appeals Officers some thirty five years ago are Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. not now available. Brennan): The person concerned appealed Where a non-manual worker reached the against the decision to refuse him a Respite Care insurable limit and was therefore no longer com- Grant for 2005. In accordance with the statutory pulsorily insured, the legislation enabled that requirements, the relevant departmental papers worker to make voluntary contributions provided and comments of my Department were sought. he or she had a minimum of 156 contributions These have now been provided and I am paid and applied within a prescribed period. informed that the case has been referred to an There is no scope in legislation to facilitate the Appeals Officer who proposes to hold an oral payment of contributions that were not due or to hearing. retrospectively pay social insurance contributions I am advised that a date is not yet available for for which a person was not liable. However, in the oral hearing but that a date will be set as soon recognition of the fact that some workers may as it can be accommodated. have been in and out of insurance coverage over their working life because of fluctuations in their Tax and Social Welfare Codes. earnings, special arrangements were put in place in 1988 with the introduction of special partial 219. Mr. Cregan asked the Minister for Social pensions related to the average of the contri- and Family Affairs the situation in relation to the butions paid, subject to a minimum average of rules regarding categories of workers who had to five full-rate contributions paid or credited. pay PRSI during the years 1967 to 1974; if the necessity to pay contributions was based on Social Welfare Benefits. income or category of workers; the definition of manual or non-manual workers; the reason some 220. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social and workers were refused the opportunity to pay con- Family Affairs the reason a person (details tributions, while others deemed manual were supplied) in County Mayo was refused jobseek- allowed pay even if on higher wages; if this dis- er’s allowance. [11930/07] criminatory provision was ever challenged legally or set aside by an appeals officer; and if people Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. with gaps in their record can now have their con- Brennan): The person concerned made an appli- tributions restored or can they be given the right cation for jobseeker’s allowance on 23 February to purchase them back. [11915/07] 2007. Due to an administrative error, she was incorrectly informed that her means exceeded the Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. limit for entitlement to jobseeker’s allowance in her case. Brennan): Until 1974, liability for social insurance contributions was compulsory for almost all Her case is currently being re-examined and workers over the age of sixteen years who were she has been asked to supply further details in connection with her claim. A decision on her ether manual workers employed under a contract claim will issue as soon as possible once this infor- of service, regardless of their remuneration, or mation is received. non-manual workers whose remuneration did not The Department aims to provide a quality exceed a specified limit. service to customers and the error which occurred The remuneration limit in 1974 was £1,600 per in this case is regretted. annum for full-time workers or equivalent for part-time workers. This had been increased from £600 per annum from 5 January, 1953, £800 per Ministerial Appointments. annum from December, 1958, £1,200 from 221. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for September, 1965, and £1,600 from May, 1971 until Social and Family Affairs the number of appoint- the remuneration limit was removed on 31st ments to State boards, State bodies or other like March, 1974. There were no changes to insurance entities which he envisages making or nominating liability in 1967. in the period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if 1431 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1432

[Mr. J. O’Keeffe.] any such board, body or entity involved; and if he he will identify any such board, body or entity will make a statement on the matter. [11983/07] involved; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11981/07] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The following table outlines the existing and anticipated Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. vacancies on State boards and other bodies under Brennan): The five statutory agencies operating my aegis for the period in question. I will give under the aegis of my Department are the Pen- due consideration to filling any particular vacancy sions Board, the Combat Poverty Agency, the as and when that vacancy arises and taking Citizens Information Board (formerly account of the particular circumstances prevailing Comhairle), the Family Support Agency and the at the time. Social Welfare Tribunal. In addition the Pensions Ombudsman comes under the remit of my State Board Vacancies Existing Department. or Anticipated There are 2 vacancies on the Citizens Infor- mation Board which are in the process of being National Roads Authority 3 filled. Advisory Council to the Commission for Taxi Regulation 17 Parking Regulations. Commissioner for Taxi Regulation 1 222. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Trans- Advisory Council on Rail Safety 14 port if he will amend the Roads Bill 2007 to Irish Aviation Authority 1 reflect the wishes of the residents of the Croke Railway Procurement Agency 1 Park area who are seeking residents only parking CIE 1 permits on the occasion of big match and other Road Safety Authority 2 major event days; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11829/07] Dublin Airport Authority Nil Cork Airport Authority 0 Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The Shannon Airport Authority Nil imposition of restrictions and prohibitions on Dublin Transportation Office Nil parking on public roads is a complex matter and Medical Bureau of Road Safety Nil legal advice was sought in this regard from the Marine Casualty Investigation Board Nil Office of the Attorney General. I have included a section in the Roads Bill 2007, which is now Port of Cork 5 before the Houses, to deal with this matter. It will Drogheda Port Company 3 empower local councils to make bye-laws for the Dublin Port Company 6 application of restrictions and prohibitions on Dun Laoghaire Harbour Company 6 parking in areas (such as around the environs of Galway Harbour Company 6 Croke Park) when specified events such as a sporting or entertainment events are being held. Dundalk Port Company 9 Wicklow Port Company 9 Irish Language. Shannon Foynes Port Company 6 New Ross Port Company 6 223. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Trans- port the languages in which his Department’s telephone messages are recorded; and if his Department’s messages include a version in the Public Transport. Irish language. [11897/07] 225. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The out Transport if all the 100 buses purchased by of hours message on the Department’s main Dublin Bus are now in use on the bus corridors switchboard is bilingual with the English version they were identified to serve; and if he will make played initially followed by the Irish version giv- a statement on the matter. [12119/07] ing identical information. Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Dublin Individual voice mails are at the discretion of Bus has advised me that it has taken delivery of staff members as to the language(s) in which they the 100 additional buses. The deployment of the wish to record their message. buses is an operational matter for the company in which I have no role. Ministerial Appointments. 224. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Dormant Accounts Fund. Transport the number of appointments to State 226. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Com- boards, State bodies or other like entities which munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason he envisages making or nominating in the period Pobal has refused an application by a club (details 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify supplied) for funding from the dormant accounts 1433 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1434 fund programme; and if he will make a statement Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht on the matter. [11863/07] Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Ethnic minority groups are supported in the main under the Local Minister of State at the Department of Com- Development and Social Inclusion Programme munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. (LDSIP) and the Community Development Prog- Ahern): The group in question applied for assist- ramme. Other programmes and schemes adminis- ance from the Dormant Accounts Fund under the tered by, or on behalf of, my Department are measure providing supports for ICT (Information open to community groups regardless of their and Communications Technology) Initiatives for ethnicity. Information on the various schemes is Disadvantage Young People. The intention of available on the Department’s website at this funding is to provide greater access to ICT www.pobail.ie. and to promote ICT skills development among The LDSIP aims to counter disadvantage, pro- disadvantaged young people. mote equality, social and economic inclusion The proposal from the group in question did through the provision of funding and support to not score high enough to warrant a funding local partnerships. The programme is adminis- recommendation. The group was advised on 31st tered by Pobal on behalf of the Department and January of the outcome and of their right to seek is delivered through 69 local and community part- a review of the decision. A request for a review nerships companies and two Employment Pacts was received on 22nd February and this is cur- in designated areas. rently being processed. The group will be notified Refugees, asylum seekers, migrant workers and of the outcome of the review in due course. their families are all named as target groups of the LDSIP. Partnerships have developed actions to support the integration of ethnic minority com- Irish Language. munities in the areas of labour market, com- 227. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Com- munity development, and community-based munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the langu- youth initiatives. ages in which his Department’s telephone mess- Since December 2006 actions under the LDSIP ages are recorded; and if his Department’s have been complemented by the Initiative to Sup- messages include a version in the Irish langu- port the Integration of Legally Resident Immi- age. [11886/07] grants (which is the responsibility of the Ta´naiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Reform). One strand of this Initiative is specifi- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): During normal office cally for partnerships companies to support local- hours, people phoning my Department’s main level strategies. To date 15 Partnerships have numbers are usually greeted personally in Irish in been awarded funding. Gaeltacht based offices and in Irish, or Irish and In addition, six Partnerships were funded in English (bilingually), in other offices. 2006 through the Vulnerable Immigrants Outside of normal office hours, callers hear Measure of the Dormant Accounts Fund, to either a recorded message in Irish or a bilingual enhance the employability of legally resident recording in Irish and English. immigrants in their areas. Where a direct dial number is used (i.e. where My Department’s Community Development the caller has the direct number of a particular Programme supports the core costs of 182 com- person or business unit) and the phone is munity projects located in areas of disadvantage throughout the country. These projects are man- unattended, the caller will be invited by recorded aged by local voluntary management committee message to leave a message. That recorded mess- and provide a focal point for community activity age can be in Irish, be bilingual, or be in English, within their area of operation. Ethnic minority depending on how the person being called has set groups, where they experience disadvantage up their voicemail. In Gaeltacht based offices or and/or marginalisation, are one of a number of offices dealing with Irish language matters, staff target groups that benefit under the programme. record such messages in Irish while in other offices staff record such messages bilingually or, Ministerial Appointments. more usually, callers will be invited in English to leave a message. 229. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the Community Development. number of appointments to State boards, State bodies or other like entities which he envisages 228. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Com- making or nominating in the period 26 March munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the funding 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify any such initiatives he has developed to support organis- board, body or entity involved; and if he will ations seeking to build a sense of community inte- make a statement on the matter. [11972/07] grated into Irish life among ethnic minority groups; and if he has identified the need for Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht further development in this area. [11944/07] Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I do not envisage mak- 1435 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1436

´ ´ [Eamon O Cuı´v.] and if her Department’s messages include a ver- ing any appointments or nominating any individ- sion in the Irish language. [11883/07] uals to State Boards, State Bodies or other like entities in the period 26 March 2007 to 31 May Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary 2007. For completeness I might however add that Coughlan): My Department’s telephone messages a decision on possible retention of certain existing are recorded in English. Arrangements are being members of a particular board, whose terms will put in place to provide a version in the Irish lang- soon expire, may arise for consideration by uage in line with my Departments Scheme 2006- Government during the period in question. 2009 under Section 11 of the Official Language Act 2003. Grant Payments. Grant Payments. 230. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- culture and Food when a person (details 232. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Agri- supplied) in County Meath will be issued with culture and Food if there are grants available for their 2005 national reserve allocation and pay- a person (details supplied) who does not have a ment; the reason for the delay; and if she will herd number to build a slatted shed on the lands make a statement on the matter. [11861/07] which have been inherited from their late father; and if she will make a statement on the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary matter. [11917/07] Coughlan): The person named submitted an Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary application for an allocation of entitlements from Coughlan): The Farm Improvement Scheme will the 2005 Single Payment Scheme National be introduced as soon as EU approval is received Reserve under Category B. for the Rural Development Programme 2007- Category B caters for farmers who made an 2013. It is proposed that this Scheme will provide investment in production capacity in a farming grant-aid for the construction of slatted sheds sector for which a direct payment under Live- and, as in the case of previous Schemes, appli- stock Premia and/or Arable Aid schemes would cants will be required to have a herd number or have been payable during the reference period other Department identifier in order to apply for 2000-2002. Investments can include purchase or grant-aid under the Scheme. long term lease of land, purchase of suckler and/or ewe quota or other investments. The per- Farm Waste Management. son named applied under Category B(i) in relation to investment in land and B(iv) in 233. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Agri- relation to investment in buildings and has been culture and Food if the grant approved to a per- deemed successful. son (details supplied) in County Mayo will now The person named also benefited from another be granted. [11932/07] measure (Force Majeure during the reference period) under which the year 2001 was removed Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary when calculating his entitlements under the Sin- Coughlan): The person named above is an appli- gle Payment Scheme. cant under the Farm Waste Management The Regulations governing the Single Payment Scheme. Core documentation relating to his Scheme provide that checks must be made to application remains outstanding. My Department ensure that an allocation from the National is not in a position to further process this application until all relevant documentation has been Reserve, to an applicant who has already ben- received. efited under other measures associated with the Single Payment Scheme, does not result in double benefit. An applicant may only benefit from the Grant Payments. measure that is most beneficial. All checks have 234. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for now been completed and it has been established Agriculture and Food the outcome of an appeal that an allocation from the National Reserve is for extra entitlements for a person (details more beneficial in this case and therefore the supplied) in County Galway; if her attention has Force Majeure status has been rescinded in fav- been drawn to the fact that the farmer in question our of an allocation from the National Reserve. lost four cows from their quota of twenty cows in A formal letter outlining my Department’s 2002, if her further attention has been drawn to decision has issued to the person named and the the fact that they did their best to have them relevant payment due will issue shortly. replaced on time; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11934/07] Irish Language. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary 231. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Agri- Coughlan): The person named has now been culture and Food the languages in which her given credit for twenty suckler cows for the year Department’s telephone messages are recorded; 2002 in the calculation of his Single Payment 1437 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1438 entitlement. This will lead to an increased Single School Placement. Payment for 2005 and 2006 and the supplemen- 238. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Edu- tary payment will be processed without delay. cation and Science if her attention has been drawn to the case of a person (details supplied) Ministerial Appointments. in Dublin 15; if her attention has further been 235. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for drawn to the fact that the person has been with- Agriculture and Food the number of appoint- out education for a long period of time and is in ments to State boards, State bodies or other like need not only of education but of the stability of entities which she envisages making or nominat- a school place; if intervention has been made by ing in the period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; her Department to secure a school place for the if she will identify any such board, body or entity person; and if she will make a statement on the involved; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11839/07] matter. [11969/07] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Hanafin): Enrolment decisions are the responsi- Coughlan): I will be making two appointments to bility of the Board of Management of each indi- the Board of Teagasc in the period specified. vidual school. My Department has no role in relation to processing applications for enrolment School Accommodation. by schools. Section 29 of the Education Act 1998, provides 236. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- parents with an appeal process where a Board of cation and Science if funds will be provided in Management of a school or a person acting on 2007 for an extension to a school (details behalf of the Board refuses enrolment to a supplied) in County Dublin; and if she will make student. Where a school refuses to enrol a pupil, a statement on the matter. [11801/07] the school is obliged to inform parents of their right under Section 29 of Education Act 1998 to Minister for Education and Science (Ms appeal that decision to the Secretary General of Hanafin): I can confirm to the Deputy that the school to which she refers applied for capital my Department. It is only where an appeal under funding under the Department’s Small Schools Section 29 is upheld that the Secretary General Scheme, SSS, for 2007. The school’s application of my Department may direct a school to enrol was unsuccessful due to higher priorities under a pupil. the prioritisation criteria for the scheme. The National Educational Welfare Board However, it is open to the school authorities to (NEWB) is the statutory agency which can assist apply for funding under the 2008 scheme, details parents who are experiencing difficulty in secur- of which will be announced later this year. ing a school place for their child. The NEWB can In the meantime the school has applied for be contacted at National Educational Welfare grant aid to rent a temporary prefabricated Board, National Headquarters, 16-22 Green Special Education Room to cater for immediate Street, Dublin 7 or by telephone at 01-8738700. needs. This application is under assessment and An appeal under section 29 of the Education the school will be notified of the outcome shortly. Act 1998 was heard in October 2006 in respect of Advancement of a project for the school under a refusal by a Special School to enrol the child the traditional method of procurement is being referred to by the Deputy. The appeal was not considered under the Department’s Multi-annual upheld. In issuing it’s findings the appeals com- School Building and Modernisation Programme. mittee reported that the school in question was not an appropriate placement for this child in 237. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Edu- light of her educational needs. The child has been cation and Science if she has found alternative diagnosed with significant acquired brain injury accommodation for a school (details supplied) in and requires specialist advice and input regarding County Limerick as it has to vacate its current her educational placement. accommodation at the end of the 2006/2007 The appeals committee recommended that the school year; and if she will make a statement on National Educational Welfare Board, in consul- the matter. [11837/07] tation with The National Council for Special Edu- cation, should assist the child’s parents in arrang- Minister for Education and Science (Ms ing for a suitable educational placement. The Hanafin): A suitable building for the school in National Educational Welfare Board, NEWB, is question has been identified. A formal offer, sub- aware of this case and an Educational Welfare ject to Contract, for its purchase has been made Officer, EWO, has been assisting the child’s by my Department to the vendor’s agents within mother in seeking an appropriate placement. the past week. The vendor has been allowed 14 My Department has sanctioned home tuition days from the date of the offer in which to hours for the child as an interim measure. A respond and my Department is hopeful of a posi- home tutor with experience in working with per- tive response. sons with Acquired Brain Injury was sourced by 1439 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1440

[Ms Hanafin.] deliver a primary education programme; if she the EWO and this home tuition arrangement is will introduce measures to ensure that such currently ongoing. teachers who do not have the required certifi- The Appeals Committee also recommended cation in Irish could obtain it; and if she will make that a further assessment of the child should be a statement on the matter. [11875/07] carried out and this took place December 2006. Following the results of the assessment, the EWO Minister for Education and Science (Ms contacted and made applications to a number of Hanafin): Two Montessori qualifications are cur- schools in the Dublin area that cater for children rently recognised for the purpose of appointment with Mild Learning Disability. to the following posts in primary schools: The NEWB has informed my Department that, resource teaching posts, special classes and to date, one school has said it is full but will pro- special schools. The two recognised qualifications cess an application for September 2007. A second are (i) the three-year full-time course in the school has refused to enrol the child and my Association Montessori Internationale (AMI) Department is informed that the mother has College, Mount St. Mary’s, Milltown, Dublin 14 decided not to appeal this decision. A third and (ii) the HETAC accredited B.A. in Montes- school is reviewing the application and has asked sori Education or B.A. (Hons.) in Montessori the EWO to set up a professionals meeting and Education in St. Nicholas Montessori College, this process is in hand. Du´ n Laoghaire. Teachers with Montessori qualifications recognised by my Department are also Pension Provisions. eligible to work as substitute teachers in mainstream primary schools. 239. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Edu- Teachers with the above recognised Montessori cation and Science the position regarding the qualifications are granted restricted recognition entitlement of a person (details supplied) in to teach in special schools and in the categories County Tipperary under the new pension scheme of special classes in mainstream schools where for primary school caretakers employed under Irish is not a curricular requirement. Such the 1979 scheme; and if she will make a statement teachers are also eligible for posts as resource on the matter. [11864/07] teachers (low incidence) for children with special needs in mainstream schools (Circular 02/2005). Minister for Education and Science (Ms The conditions governing the recognition of Hanafin): In 2006 I introduced, with the concur- qualifications are set out in Circular 25/00, “Rec- rence of the Minister for Finance, pension ognition of Teacher Qualifications for the Pur- arrangements for caretaking staff employed pose of Teaching in National Schools”. under the 1979 Scheme. These arrangements The Deputy may be aware that, with effect provide that membership of the pension scheme from 28th March, 2006, the Teaching Council is will be effective from 1 September 2001 in the the designated authority for recognition of quali- case of eligible caretakers in service at that time. fications for the regulated profession of primary The pension scheme will be a contributory, teacher. The issue raised in relation to the Irish defined benefit scheme and will provide standard requirement for Montessori teachers should be public service pension benefits. taken up with the Council. Deduction of ongoing contributions com- I wish to inform the Deputy that my Depart- menced from eligible personnel with effect from ment has agreed to a request from the Irish Mon- 7 March 2006. Arrears of contributions are pay- tessori Education Board for a meeting to discuss able in respect of the period from 1 September issues of concern to them. The necessary arrange- 2001 to the date ongoing deductions commenced, ments for the holding of the meeting will be made or the date membership ended if earlier. Eligible as soon as possible. staff will be notified in due course of the arrears due in respect of that period. In accordance with Irish Language. standard public service arrangements, there is also provision for reckoning service given prior to 241. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Edu- 1 September 2001 subject to verification of the cation and Science the languages in which her service concerned and payment of the appro- Department’s telephone messages are recorded; priate contributions. and if her Department’s messages include a ver- The specific case referred to by the Deputy is sion in the Irish language. [11888/07] currently being examined. I will arrange to have a reply issued directly to the Deputy confirming Minister for Education and Science (Ms the position. Hanafin): Voicemail messages are bilingual (Irish and English) when a member of staff in my Department can provide a service through Irish. Teaching Qualifications. Where staff are unable to provide a service 240. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Edu- through Irish, the caller is offered the option to cation and Science her views on the recognition have the call returned, within one working day, of Montessori teachers as persons eligible to by an Irish speaking member of staff. 1441 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1442

My Department published its Scheme under agreement at an early date on the future manage- Section 11 of the Official Languages Act in ment arrangements for the hall, taking into December 2005. The Scheme, which covers the account issues relating to both school and com- period 2005-2008, includes a commitment to munity access. provide a dedicated telephone number for Irish speaking customers. In order to meet this com- School Transport. mitment, a targeted language training programme is being delivered to increase the numbers of staff 244. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for Edu- capable of providing services through Irish. cation and Science the reason students of a school (details supplied) in County Mayo have to cross a busy road to be collected by the school bus in Swimming Pool Projects. view of the fact that students of an adjacent 242. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Edu- school are collected in their school grounds; the cation and Science if her Department has plans to reason a bus shelter between the two schools is refurbish or to rebuild the swimming pool (details not being used which would avoid any unnecess- supplied) in Dublin 24; the timeframe to under- ary risk; and if she will make a statement on the take the necessary works; the estimated cost of matter. [11923/07] same; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11904/07] Minister of State at the Department of Edu- cation and Science (Mr. Haughey): I have asked Minister for Education and Science (Ms Bus E´ ireann to communicate directly with the Hanafin): The Department is in receipt of an Deputy as the planning and organising of school application from the school to which the Deputy bus routes is an operational matter for the refers for the refurbishment/redevelopment of its company. sports complex including the swimming pool. The project has been assessed in accordance with the Teaching Qualifications. published prioritisation criteria for large scale building projects and has been assigned a band 4 245. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for rating. Progress on the project will be considered Education and Science if, in order to ensure the in the context of the multi-annual School Build- delivery of the most appropriate teaching skills in ing and Modernisation programme. the teaching of English as a second language, she will ensure the religious ethos exemption will not be used in such a way as to impede the recruit- Physical Education Facilities. ment, establishment or promotion of those with 243. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Edu- exceptional skills who have come into the area of cation and Science when it is expected that an teaching, and whose contribution is both neces- agreement will be reached between the trustees sary and invaluable; if she has satisfied herself of a school (details supplied) in Dublin 11 and that to invoke the religious exemption in order to her Department regarding the management adversely affect the employment prospects of an arrangements for the sports hall and the way the applicant to a teaching position would breach the issue of community access will be addressed; and spirit and letter of Irish, European and inter- if she will make a statement on the matter. national equality legislation. [11926/07] [11920/07] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): I am anxious for schools to appoint the Hanafin): My Department has provided funding most suitable people to language support posts in excess of \34m for the construction of nine and am determined to ensure that language sup- dual use halls with enhanced facilities, attached port teachers have access to the right assessment to post-primary schools. tools to help them to establish the abilities and Eight of the halls, including the hall referred to needs of individual students. by the Deputy, are in Dublin and one is in Cork. In order to ensure that schools can accurately The halls in question have been built as part of and objectively assess the language requirement a joint programme to develop community sports of children, my Department will be sending to facilities in drugs task force areas. As the halls primary schools assessment materials which have are of a much greater magnitude than the average been developed by Integrate Ireland Language school PE hall, issues relating to the funding, and Training (IILT). The assessment materials management structure and staffing of the halls will enable schools to ensure that the specific lan- have had to be considered. guage requirements of children needing support My Department is at present considering are met in a targeted way. The IILT materials will detailed proposals which have been put forward also enable accurate initial and on-going assess- by the trustees of the school in question in ment of the language proficiency of the child and relation to the future operation of the sports hall. his or her need for continued language support. Following such consideration, my Department In relation to the question of ethos raised by will revert to the trustees with a view to reaching the Deputy, the position is that section 15 of the 1443 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1444

[Ms Hanafin.] A meeting was recently convened with Education Act states that it is the duty of the Officials from my Department, the Board of Board of Management “to manage the school(s) Management and the Design Team in order to on behalf of the patron” and “uphold, and be evaluate the Stage 2 submission. At the meeting, accountable to the patron for so upholding, the the project was approved to proceed to Stage 3 characteristic spirit of the school(s) as determined (Developed Sketch Scheme) of Architectural by the cultural, educational, moral, religious, Planning. Officials from my Department will be social, linguistic and spiritual values and train further contact with the school authorities ditions which inform and are characteristic of the when the Stage 3 documentation has been objectives and conduct of the school...”. received and evaluated. Progression of the project to tender and con- Schools Refurbishment. struction will be considered in the context of the 246. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Edu- multi-annual School Building and Modernisation cation and Science when outdoor toilets at Bally- programme. guiltenane, County Limerick will be replaced; and if she will make a statement on the Higher Education. matter. [11933/07] 249. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for Education and Science if funding is available to Minister for Education and Science (Ms support people undertaking distance learning Hanafin): The Department has been in contact courses; and if she will make a statement on the with the school authorities in relation to this matter. [11945/07] matter. An application from the school for funding to provide toilet facilities under the Emer- Minister for Education and Science (Ms gency Works Grant is awaited. Hanafin): My Department funds four maintenance grant schemes for third level and further School Transport. education students. These are the Higher Edu- 247. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for cation Grants (HEG) Scheme, the Vocational Education and Science if her attention has been Education Committees’ (VEC) Scholarships drawn to the fact that her Department gave an Scheme, the Third Level Maintenance Grants undertaking that encroachment into the catch- Scheme for Trainees (TLT) and the Maintenance ment area of a school (details supplied) in County Grants Scheme for Students attending Post Leav- Galway at Dysart by a bus serving the Athlone ing Certificate Courses (PLC). The decision on PPC would end in June 2006; if her attention has eligibility for third level grants is a matter for the further been drawn to the fact that this encroach- relevant local authority or VEC. ment is continuing; if the encroachment will end Generally speaking, students who are entering as and from June 2007; and if she will make a approved courses for the first time are eligible for statement on the matter. [11935/07] grants where they satisfy the relevant conditions as to age, residence, means, nationality and pre- Minister of State at the Department of Edu- vious academic attainment. In order to qualify for cation and Science (Mr. Haughey): My prede- financial assistance under the Third Level cessor agreed to sanction the continuance of the Student Support Schemes operated by my existing transport arrangements, referred to by Department, a person must pursue a full-time the Deputy, for the current school year. The rel- undergraduate course, which must generally be of evant Transport Liaison Officers will be notified at least two years duration, at an approved third of any change in these arrangements in advance level institution. of the next school year. Under the Free Fees Initiative, the Department meets the tuition fees of eligible students who are Schools Building Projects. attending full-time undergraduate courses which 248. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for must be of at least two years duration, at Education and Science if her attention has been approved colleges. drawn to the overcrowding at a school (details An undergraduate course by distance learning, supplied) in County Galway; if her attention has is not regarded as full-time study, accordingly, further been drawn to the length of time it is tak- such students are ineligible for grant assistance ing to their approval for a substantial extension under the Third Level Student Support Schemes. to this school; the stage the application is at; and Tax relief is available for tuition fees paid by if she will make a statement on the matter. students who are attending certain third level [11936/07] colleges. Such students, or their parents, as appropriate, can avail of tax relief, at the standard Minister for Education and Science (Ms rate, on tuition fees paid in respect of part-time Hanafin): The building project for the school undergraduate courses of at least two years dur- referred to by the Deputy is at an early stage of ation in such colleges, provided that both the architectural planning. college and the course satisfy the prescribed 1445 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1446

Codes of Standards and are approved by the Language Support Posts in Primary Schools in Donegal Minister for Education and Science. Further details and conditions in relation to tax School Year Number of Posts relief are available from each individual’s local tax office. 2002/03 Nil 2003/04 3 Computerisation Programme. 2004/05 5 2005/06 7 250. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for Education and Science her plans to update the 2006/07 15 software for the computers that all schools have been issued by her Department; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11946/07] 252. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for Education and Science the number of resource Minister for Education and Science (Ms teachers that have been newly appointed in each Hanafin): As the Deputy will be aware, the of the past five years in County Donegal; and if National Development Plan 2007-2013 provides she will make a statement on the matter. for investment of \252m in the ICT in Schools [11948/07] Programme and I will be publishing a comprehensive new strategy for ICT in Schools covering Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): I wish to advise the Deputy that the the period to 2013. The new strategy will aim to information sought in respect of the number of develop an e-Learning culture in our schools that newly appointed resource teachers in each of the will ensure that ICT usage is embedded in teach- past five years in schools in County Donegal is ing and learning across the curriculum. not readily available in my Department. I have recently announced the appointment of As the Deputy is aware, there has been enor- a Strategy Planning Group to advise me on the mous progress made over the past number of prioritisation of measures under the planned years in relation to increasing the number of investment over the period of the NDP. Among teachers in our schools who are specifically dedi- the issues which the new strategy will address will cated to providing education for children with be the provision of software and digital content special educational needs. for learning. It will also address teacher pro- My Department implemented a new scheme fessional development, the maintenance of the for allocating resource teachers to all mainstream national broadband network for schools, techni- primary schools in September 2005. The general cal maintenance and support requirements and allocation scheme is designed to ensure that each the upgrading and renewal of hardware. I have school has learning support/resource teaching asked the Strategy Planning Group to look at the available to meet the needs of children with high incidence special needs and those with learning critical success factors for those schools that are support needs. successfully integrating ICT into their teaching Pupils assessed as having low incidence dis- and learning and to take account of the full range abilities, such as autism, may be eligible for an of educational supports and funding available to individual allocation of resource teaching hours further the integration of ICT into teaching and following submission of an application by the learning. school to the local Special Educational Needs The Strategy Planning Group is chaired by Mr Organiser (SENO). Jerome Morrissey, Director of the National At primary level, there are now more than Centre for Technology in Education and its mem- 5,500 teachers in our primary schools working bership comprises individuals with a range of directly with children with special needs, includ- complementary experiences and expertise in edu- ing those requiring learning support. This com- cation, industry and the public service. It is pares to approximately 1,500 in 1998. expected that the Group will report in May. At second level, approximately 1,878 whole time equivalent additional teachers are in place to support pupils with special educational needs. School Staffing. This compares to the approximately 200 teachers 251. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for that were in place in 1998 for such pupils. In Education and Science the number of English addition, there are 533 whole time equivalent language assistant teachers that have been learning support teachers in our second level appointed in primary schools in County Donegal schools. in each of the past five years. [11947/07] The Deputy will also be aware that with effect from 1 January 2005, the National Council for Minister for Education and Science (Ms Special Education (NCSE) has taken over key Hanafin): The information requested by the functions from my Department in relation to special educational provision. The NCSE was for- Deputy is provided in the following table: mally established as an independent statutory body on the 1st October 2005 under the Edu- 1447 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1448

[Ms Hanafin.] staffing ratios than that — with two teachers for cation for Persons with Special Educational just 12 pupils in some cases and so on — but the Needs Act 2005. The Council acts under the general rule is that there is at least one classroom broad policy direction of the Department of Edu- teacher for every 28 children in the school. Next cation and Science but has the resources and the year (2007/2008 school year) this is being reduced remit to play the leading role in the delivery of to 27 children per classroom teacher. education services to children with A further initiative that has been of direct disabilities/special needs. benefit to primary schools has been the change in the criteria for developing schools. For the cur- 253. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for rent school year the threshold for getting a Education and Science the number of special developing school post was reduced specifically needs assistants that have been appointed to to help schools that are seeing large increases in primary schools in County Donegal in each of the enrolments each year. Over 280 such posts were past five years. [11949/07] sanctioned in the 2006/07 school year compared to 170 in 2005/06. Minister for Education and Science (Ms The improvements we have made in school Hanafin): There are currently 264 Special Need staffing in recent years are absolutely Assistants (whole-time equivalents) employed in unparalleled. primary schools in County Donegal. But we are determined to go even further, and As the Deputy is aware, there are over three so the 2007 Estimates include provision for thousand two hundred primary schools in the another 800 primary teachers. About 500 of these country. The compilation of information regard- will be classroom teachers, which includes our ing the number of SNAs appointed to individual commitment to reduce class sizes. schools would require an inordinate amount of I assure the Deputy that we will continue to administrative time in my Department. prioritise further improvements in school staffing going forward. We will also continue our focus on Pupil-Teacher Ratio. measures to improve the quality of education in 254. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Edu- our primary schools to ensure that increased cation and Science if she will supply the infor- resources lead to better outcomes for our mation previously requested in relation to schools children. in Dublin 15 (details supplied); and if she will make a statement on the matter. [11950/07] Ministerial Appointments.

Minister for Education and Science (Ms 255. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Hanafin): Information in relation to class sizes is Education and Science the number of appoint- provided in the annual census of primary schools. ments to State boards, State bodies or other like The details for the current school year entities which she envisages making or nominat- (2006/2007) are currently being compiled by my ing in the period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; Department and the information requested is not if she will identify any such board, body or entity readily available. involved; and if she will make a statement on the As the Deputy will be aware, major improve- matter. [11974/07] ments have been made in staffing at primary level in recent years. At the beginning of the current Minister for Education and Science (Ms school year there are no less than 5,000 extra Hanafin): The Deputy can be assured that in teachers in our primary schools, compared with appointing persons to State boards, State bodies 2002. The average class size in our primary or other like entities I will follow the guidelines schools is 24 and there is now one teacher for 17 set out in the Cabinet Handbook regarding eligi- pupils at primary level, including resource bility, transparency and gender balance. teachers etc. Children with special needs and those from dis- School Staffing. advantaged areas are getting more support than ever before to help them to make the most of 256. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Edu- their time at school. cation and Science if her attention has been Indeed, with the thousands of extra primary drawn to the fact the current enrolment of 247 teachers hired by this Government, recent years pupils at a school (details supplied) in County have seen the largest expansion in teacher Wexford is projected to increase to 319 by the numbers since the expansion of free education. year 2011 and that four classes are at present con- Furthermore, the Government is committed to ducted from prefabricated buildings; when her providing even more primary teachers next year Department will issue a schedule of accom- to reduce class sizes. modation works to enable this school’s building As the Deputy knows all primary schools are project to proceed to detailed design in view of staffed on a general rule of at least one classroom the urgent need for additional accommodation; teacher for every 28 children. Of course, schools and if she will make a statement on the with only one or two teachers have much lower matter. [12089/07] 1449 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1450

Minister for Education and Science (Ms to protect their pupils. Over the past number Hanafin): I can confirm to the Deputy that the years, a range of measures have been put in place school to which he refers has an applied to the to ensure that this is the case. Department for additional accommodation. The The Department has provided a range of sup- Long term Projected Staffing has recently been ports and guidance to schools in the implemen- re-examined in light of the projected demo- tation of child protection policy. Child protection graphics of the area and has been increased to guidelines and procedures, based on Children a Principal plus 12 Mainstream Teachers from a First — the Department of Health & Children’s Principal plus 8 mainstream teachers. Progress on national guidelines, have been issued to all the proposed project for the school is now being primary and post-primary schools. considered in the context of the multi-annual These guidelines make very clear the reporting School Building and Modernisation Programme. and investigation mechanisms to be followed in cases of suspected child abuse wherever they Sexual Offences. occur, and the lead role of the HSE in dealing with such cases. The Department has provided an 257. Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for extensive in-service training programme for Education and Science if boards of management school principals and teachers to assist them in of primary schools or individual members of such dealing with child protection issues and in imple- boards could be responsible for damages in menting these guidelines. respect of claims by persons who were abused by Procedures have also been introduced, based teachers who were convicted sex offenders in on Children First, for Departmental staff to assist view of the fact that the State has been deemed them in dealing with any allegations or com- not to be responsible for such damages; if her plaints of abuse which are made to them. Under attention has been drawn to the fact that many these procedures, the existences of allegations of boards of management are worried in relation to abuse are notified directly to the HSE and all their responsibilities in this regard; and if she will allegations of abuse received in the Department make a statement on the matter. [12090/07] are treated with the utmost seriousness. A range of other initiatives have been put in Minister for Education and Science (Ms place, including the Stay Safe programme, Social, Hanafin): Our current system of school manage- Personal and Health Education and Internet ment has served us well. It means that communi- Safety guidelines — all with a view to educating ties have a strong role in how schools are run and students in relation to issues of personal health, that Patrons can ensure that their ethos is pro- well being and safety. moted in their schools. I know that such a locally- In addition, from the beginning of the based system places a lot of responsibility on vol- 2006/2007 academic year, all new teachers and untary members of boards and I am anxious to other ancillary staff who have unsupervised ensure that members of boards are provided with access to children are subject to Garda vetting. the training and other supports that they need to Vetting will be broadened to include all 55,000 discharge their responsibilities. serving teachers over the next few years. The Department has provided funding to the various school management bodies to enable them to provide training for their boards of man- Schools Building Projects. agement. Since last year, the Drumcondra Edu- 258. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Edu- cation Centre has had responsibility for offering cation and Science if she will report on plans to training for boards of management to meet their provide a sports hall at a school (details supplied) identified needs. Areas covered by this training in Dublin 12; and if she will make a statement on include legal issues, financial management, bully- the matter. [12092/07] ing and child protection. While members of Boards have a responsibility Minister for Education and Science (Ms to ensure that procedures are in place within the Hanafin): I can confirm to the Deputy that an school to keep their pupils safe and to investigate application has been received for a sports hall any allegations of abuse, they are not personally from the school to which he refers. This appli- liable for claims against the school. The Edu- cation has been assessed in accordance with the cation Act specifically protects individual published prioritisation criteria for large scale members from being sued. It is important that building projects and has been assigned a band 4 there is local responsibility and vigilance in rating. Progress on the proposed works is being relation to child abuse but of course this does not considered in the context of the multi-annual mean volunteer members of boards being School Building and Modernisation Programme. exposed to claims. Nor do I believe that this issue will stop people from volunteering to participate School Accommodation. on boards. While the courts have found that State was not 259. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Edu- liable for cases of child abuse in schools, nonethe- cation and Science if progress will be made in less the Government is determined to ensure that respect of the need for additional accommodation all schools have policies and procedures in place at a school (details supplied) in County Dublin; 1451 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1452

[Mr. O’Connor.] are of a much greater magnitude than the average and if she will make a statement on the school PE hall, issues relating to the funding, matter. [12106/07] management structure and staffing of the halls have had to be considered. Minister for Education and Science (Ms My Department understands from County Hanafin): The Department has acknowledged the Dublin VEC that the appropriate staffing com- need to relocate the existing primary school plement is in place in the hall in question and that referred to by the Deputy to a greenfield site. The the hall is now being used for both school and acquisition of a site for this development is being community purposes. actively pursued. When this matter has been finalised, progress on the proposed project can be considered under the School Building and Mod- Irish Language. ernisation Programme. 263. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Defence the languages in which his Department’s Schools Building Projects. telephone messages are recorded; and if his 260. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Edu- Department’s messages include a version in the cation and Science if she will confirm progress on Irish language. [11887/07] the building programme at a school (details supplied) in Dublin 6W; and if she will make a Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): The staff of statement on the matter. [12107/07] my Department have access to a voice mail service and are free to leave telephone voice mail Minister for Education and Science (Ms announcements in the language of their choice. Hanafin): I am pleased to inform the Deputy that The current position is that some of the telephone my Department recently issued a letter to the messages are recorded in both Irish and English. school in question authorising the Board of Man- agement in conjunction with its Design Team to Defence Forces Reserve. proceed to Stage 4/5 (Detailed Design/Bill of Quantities) and on to tender stage. 264. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Defence the establishment of the Reserve 261. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Edu- Defence Force at commissioned officer level by cation and Science if she will confirm that con- command and unit; the vacancies that currently sideration is being given to the need for a new exist at commissioned officer level in the Reserve school building for a school (details supplied) in Defence Force by command and unit; the number Dublin 24; and if she will make a statement on of Reserve Defence Force officers that have been the matter. [12108/07] promoted to captain since 1 October 2005; the appointments of these promotions; and if he will Minister for Education and Science (Ms make a statement on the matter. [11959/07] Hanafin): The Department has acknowledged the need to relocate the existing primary school Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): The estab- referred to by the Deputy to a greenfield site. The lishment of the Reserve Defence Force at com- acquisition of a site for this development is being missioned officer level by command and unit, the actively pursued. When this matter has been finalised, progress on the proposed project can be vacancies that currently exist at commissioned considered under the multi-annual School Build- officer level in the Reserve Defence Force by ing and Modernisation Programme. command and unit, the number of Reserve Defence Force officers that have been promoted Sport and Recreational Development. to Captain since 1 October 2005 and the appointments of these promotions are outlined in the fol- 262. Mr. O’Connor asked the Minister for Edu- lowing tabular statements: cation and Science if she will confirm that proper provision is being made to allow for extensive (1) Annex A outlines the establishment of public use of the physical education hall at a the Reserve Defence Force at Brigade and school (details supplied) in Dublin 24; and if she Unit level. will make a statement on the matter. [12109/07] (2) Annex B outlines Officer promotions to Minister for Education and Science (Ms the rank of captain and appointments filled. Hanafin): My Department has provided funding (3) Annex C outlines current RDF Officer in excess of \34m for the construction of nine vacancies by Brigade and Unit level. dual use halls with enhanced facilities, attached to post-primary schools. Eight of the halls, includ- The military authorities anticipate that promotion ing the hall referred to by the Deputy, are in competitions to fill Commandant vacancies will Dublin and one is in Cork. be conducted before the end of April 2007. Com- The halls in question have been built as part of petitions to fill existing and consequent Captain a joint programme to develop community sports vacancies will be conducted subsequent to that facilities in drugs task force areas. As the halls date. 1453 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1454

ANNEX A

1 Southern Brigade Reserve

Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt Total Officers

Bde HQ 1 6 12 3 22 BTC 1236

32 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 DCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

33 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 DCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

34 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

31 Res Arty Regt Regt HQ 1 1 HQ Bty 3 1 4 GunBty 1348 GunBty 1348 GunBty 1348

31 Res Cav Sqn 1 3 6 10 31ResEngrCoy1337 31ResCISCoy1326 31ResMPCoy1225

31 Res Logs Bn Bn HQ 1 1 2 Med Coy 5 7 12 TptCoy 1258 Camp Staff 1214

Atts 3ADBty 1214 4ADBty 1214

Total 1 45 94 96 236 1455 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1456

[Mr. O’Dea.]

2 Eastern Brigade Reserve

Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt Total Officers

Bde HQ 1 6 12 3 22 BTC 1236

62 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 DCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

65 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

67 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

62 Res Arty Regt Regt HQ 1 1 HQ Bty 3 1 4 GunBty 1348 GunBty 1348 GunBty 1348

62 Res Cav Sqn 1 3 6 10 62ResEngrCoy1337 62ResCISCoy1326 62ResMPCoy1225

62ResLSBn Bn HQ 1 1 2 Med Coy 5 7 12 TptCoy 1258 Camp Staff 1214

Atts 2ADBty 1214

Total 1 42 90 87 220 1457 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1458

4 Western Brigade Reserve

Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt Total Officers

Bde HQ 1 6 12 3 22 BTC 1236

51 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 DCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

56 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

58 Res Inf Bn Bn HQ 1 4 5 HQCoy 1326 ACoy 1146 BCoy 1146 CCoy 1146 DCoy 1146 SpCoy 1326

54 Res Arty Regt Regt HQ 1 1 HQ Bty 3 1 4 GunBty 1348 GunBty 1348 GunBty 1348

54 Res Cav Sqn 1 3 6 10 54ResEngrCoy1337 54ResCISCoy1326 54ResMPCoy1225

54 Res Logs Bn Bn HQ 1 1 2 Med Coy 5 7 12 TptCoy 1258 Camp Staff 1214

Total 1 43 90 94 228 1459 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1460

[Mr. O’Dea.] Naval Service Reserve

Eastern Group Southern Group

HQ Technical Dublin Unit Waterford Unit Cork Unit Limerick Unit Total Support Group

Cdr LtCdr 1111 4 Lt12444428

Total Officers 12 555532

Reserve Defence Force Training Authority

Headquarters Infantry School Combat Support Combat Service Total College Support College

Lt Col 1 1 Comdt1111 4 Capt2456 17 Lt 1 1

Total Officers 5567 23

ANNEX B

Promotions to Captain since 01 October 2005

Appointment & Unit Brigade

Pl Comd, Recce Pl, 65 Res Inf Bn 2 Eastern Brigade 2i/c A Coy, 34 Res Inf Bn 1 Southern Brigade 2i/c B Coy, 58 Res Inf Bn 4 Western Brigade Pl Comd, A Coy, 34 Res Inf Bn 1 Southern Brigade Int Offr, Bn HQ, 32 Res Inf Bn 1 Southern Brigade Pl Comd, No2 Pl, 54 Res MP Coy 4 Western Brigade SO Logs (Capt), 65 Res Inf Bn 2 Eastern Brigade 2i/c B Coy, 33 Res Inf Bn 1 Southern Brigade Gen List, att 33 Res Inf Bn 1 Southern Brigade

ANNEX C

Reserve Defence Force Vacancies by Unit

2 Eastern Brigade

Bde HQ Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 711

Total 18

62 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 3

Total 3

65 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 13

Total 4 1461 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1462

2 Eastern Brigade

67 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 22

Total 4

62 RES Arty Regt Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

62 RES Cav Sqn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

62 RES Fd Engr Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 2

Total 2

62 Res Cis Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 1

Total 1

62 RES MP Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

62 RES Logs SP Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 53

Total 8

62 Air Def Bty Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

Total Vacancies 2 E Bde

Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 18 16 6

Total 40

a. 1 Southern Brigade

Bde HQ Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 281

Total 11

32 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0 1463 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1464

[Mr. O’Dea.]

a. 1 Southern Brigade

33 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 111

Total 3

34 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 11

Total 2

31 RES Arty Regt Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

RES Cav Sqn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 1

Total 1

31 RES Fd Engr Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 13

Total 4

31 Res Cis Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

31 RES MP Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

31 RES Logs SP Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 441

Total 9

3 Air Def Bty Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

4 Air Def Bty Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

Total Vacancies1SBde

Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

7158

Total 30 1465 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1466

4 Western Brigade

Bde HQ Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 15

Total 6

51 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 231

Total 6

56 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 1

Total 1

58 Res Inf Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 11

Total 2

54 RES Arty Regt Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

54 RES Cav Sqn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

54 RES Fd Engr Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 3

Total 3

54 Res Cis Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 11

Total 2

RES MP Coy Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

RES Logs SP Bn Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 68

Total 14

Total Vacancies 4 W Bde

Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 12 17 5

Total 34 1467 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1468

[Mr. O’Dea.]

Reserve Defence Force Training Authority

RDFTAHQ Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

Inf Sch Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt

Total 0

CSC Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 1

Total 1

CSSC Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 1

Total 1

Total Vacancies RDFTA

Lt Col Comdt Capt Lt 2

Total 2

b. Naval Service Reserve

NSR (Cork) Cdr Lt Cdr Lt 1

Total 1

NSR (Limerick Cdr Lt Cdr Lt

Total 0

NSR (Dublin Cdr Lt Cdr Lt

Total 0

NSR (Waterford Cdr Lt Cdr Lt 11

Total 2

Total Vacancies Naval Service Reserve

Cdr Lt Cdr Lt 12

Total 3

265. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Ministerial Appointments. Defence the number of appointments to State 1469 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1470 boards, State bodies or other like entities which The 2000 Act also imposed new duties on plan- he envisages making or nominating in the period ning authorities in the enforcement area. A plan- 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify ning authority must issue a warning letter in any such board, body or entity involved; and if he relation to any unauthorised development it will make a statement on the matter. [11973/07] becomes aware of (except in the case of trivial or minor development), no matter how it is becomes Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): Idonot aware of it. There is also a statutory obligation to envisage making or nominating any appointments carry out an investigation and expeditiously to State Boards, State Bodies or other like enti- decide whether an enforcement notice should be ties in the period 26th March 2007 to 31st May issued. The planning authority’s decision on 2007. whether to issue an enforcement notice must be entered on the planning register and, in cases Housing Estates Completions. where it is decided not to issue an enforcement notice, any complainant must be informed. 266. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for the Accordingly if the residents consider that this Environment, Heritage and Local Government if his attention has been drawn to the difficulties estate has not been completed in accordance with faced by residents in an affordable housing part- the planning permission, they should make a writ- nership (details supplied) in Dublin 11; the mech- ten complaint to the planning authority, who, as anism available to such residents to ensure an stated above, are obliged to follow up such adequate standard of completion of their homes; complaints. the steps he is taking to ensure acceptable stan- Section 180 of the Planning Act provides that dards in new homes in this sector; and if he will where estates have not have been completed to make a statement on the matter. [11805/07] the satisfaction of the planning authority and enforcement proceedings have not been com- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and menced within the relevant period, the planning Local Government (Mr. Roche): My Department authority must, if requested to do so by the has not received representations referred to in majority of the residents of the estate, initiate the the Question, which I understand is a private resi- procedures for taking the estate in charge. The dential development. decision as whether to take the estate in charge The developer of a residential estate is statu- is ultimately one for the discretion of the elected torily required to complete this development in members. accordance with the terms of the planning permission and a development which has not been Road Network. completed in accordance with the planning per- 267. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for the mission is unauthorised development. Enforce- Environment, Heritage and Local Government ment of planning control is a matter for the plan- the plans with his Department for the provision ning authority, which can take action where a of a relief road for Thomastown in County development requiring planning permission has not obtained permission, or where permission has Kilkenny. [11830/07] not been complied with. Under the Planning and Development Act Minister for the Environment, Heritage and 2000 planning authorities have substantial Local Government (Mr. Roche): The provision enforcement powers. The Act also contains other and maintenance of non-national roads in County relevant provisions in relation to the completion Kilkenny is a matter for Kilkenny County of housing estates: Council to be funded from its own resources supplemented by State grants provided by my Sections 34(4)(g) and 180(2)(b) of the Act Department. provide that a planning authority may attach a In July last year local authorities were invited condition to a planning permission requiring by my Department to submit applications for the giving of adequate security for the satisfac- consideration for funding under the 2007 Specific tory completion of a development, and, if the Improvements Grant scheme. The initial selec- development is not subsequently completed tion of projects to be submitted under this scheme satisfactorily, may apply the security to that is a matter for local authorities. Kilkenny County satisfactory completion. Council submitted six applications for consider- Section 160 of the Act provides that a plan- ation. Three schemes prioritised by the Council ning authority may apply to the Circuit Court received allocations, totalling \3,100,000, in 2007. or the High Court for an order requiring that a The Council’s application for funding for a relief development be carried out in accordance with road at Thomastown did not, however, receive the permission. an allocation. It is clear therefore that planning authorities have My Department will again be seeking appli- very substantial powers to compel the completion cations under the Specific Improvements Grant of housing estates by developers in accordance scheme later this year and it will be open to with the terms of the planning permissions. Kilkenny County Council to prioritise and submit 1471 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1472

[Mr. Roche.] water supply from Lough Owel at Mullingar, an application for consideration for funding in County Westmeath a few years ago, the grant aid 2008 under this scheme. allocated by his Department to Westmeath County Council to sustain an appropriate fil- Water and Sewerage Schemes. tration and treatment facility for the water supply at this location; the time frame from the outbreak 268. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for the to the commissioning of this treatment plant; and Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he will make a statement on the matter. the position regarding the proposed sewerage [11956/07] scheme for Killybegs, County Donegal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11874/07] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Mullingar Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Regional Water Supply (Treatment) Scheme, Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Killybegs which involved the construction of a new water Sewerage Scheme is approved for funding under treatment plant at the Lough Owel source, had my Department’s Water Services Investment been approved for funding under my Depart- Programme 20050-2007 at an estimated cost of ment’s Water Services Investment Programme \18m. and was being advanced through planning by I approved Donegal County Council’s Prelimi- Westmeath County Council when the cryptospor- nary Report for the scheme in November 2006. idium outbreak occurred in May 2002. The new The wastewater treatment plant for Killybegs will treatment plant became operational in September be procured under a single Design/Build/Operate 2003 and was fully commissioned in 2005. Grants contract that also includes Bundoran, while the amounting to some \9.1 million have been reco- collection system and outfall will be procured uped by my Department to the Council in respect under a separate traditional style contract. My of the scheme. Department is awaiting the submission of Con- tract Documents by Donegal County Council for both elements of the scheme. Election Management System. 271. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for the Irish Language. Environment, Heritage and Local Government the cost in relation to the unused electronic vot- 269. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for the ing machines, of storing those machines on an Environment, Heritage and Local Government annual basis, for county and constituency since the languages in which his Department’s tele- 2002; and if he will make a statement on the phone messages are recorded; and if his Depart- matter. [11957/07] ment’s messages include a version in the Irish language. [11890/07] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): Information Minister for the Environment, Heritage and provided by returning officers to my Department Local Government (Mr. Roche): The recorded in relation to storage costs (including insurance) greetings for my Department’s main telephone for the electronic voting equipment under local number give the name of the Department in both arrangements is set out in the following table; the the Irish and English languages: the remainder of information is provided by returning officers on the message is recorded in English. Arrange- a county/city basis and delivery of the equipment ments will be made shortly for the provision of for use at the June 2004 elections began towards the recorded message in both Irish and English. the end of 2003. Arrangements are now underway for the storage of electronic voting Water Pollution. equipment at centralised premises in Gormanston 270. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for the and machines from a number of constituencies Environment, Heritage and Local Government have already been transferred to the further to an outbreak of cryptosporidium in the Gormanston facility.

Annual Storage Costs 2004, 2005 and 2006

County/City Annual Storage Costs (incl. Annual Storage Costs (incl. Annual Storage Costs (incl. VAT) VAT) VAT) 2004 2005 2006

\\\

Carlow-Kilkenny 28,506.00 29,595.00 30,166.00 Cavan-Monaghan 25,828.00 25,828.00 27,075.32 Clare 10,800.00 3,600.00 3,600.00 Cork City 27,207.50 42,499.50 53,942.33 Cork County 37,609.30 37,609.30 35,124.00 1473 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1474

County/City Annual Storage Costs (incl. Annual Storage Costs (incl. Annual Storage Costs (incl. VAT) VAT) VAT) 2004 2005 2006

\\\ Donegal 9,293.00 15,714.00 16,685.80 Dublin City 65,000.00 72,350.00 71,265.00 Dublin County 62,938.66 62,938.66 49,034.86 Galway 5,253.00 5,253.00 Nil Kerry 26,125.00 26,125.00 22,624.96 Kildare 27,125.86 27,125.86 31,984.21 Laois-Offaly 28,178.00 28,178.00 27,647.60 Limerick 57,675.86 57,675.86 64,465.30 Longford 2,995.16 15,095.16 18,439.88 Roscommon 10,374.98 10,374.98 9,816.00 Louth 298.00 298.00 593.47 Mayo 34,930.00 34,930.00 37,426.00 Meath 20,366 20,366.00 21,976.51 Sligo Nil Nil Nil Leitrim Nil 3,000.00 3,150.00 Tipperary (N&S) 42,700.00 42,700.00 31,200.00 Waterford 52,888.48 52,888.48 57,699.17 Westmeath 22,805.34 22,805.34 21,772.62 Wexford 16,875.00 16,876.00 19,064.76 Wicklow 42,455.80 42,455.80 54,241.29

Total 658,228.94 696,281.94 705,995.08

Water Pollution. orities. This report provides comprehensive analysis of the cryptosporidium issue, together 272. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for the with recommendations in relation to prevention Environment, Heritage and Local Government of waterborne cryptosporidiosis and incorporates further to the recent outbreak of cryptosporidium a risk assessment model for use by sanitary in the water supply in Galway, the number and authorities. location of similar outbreaks each year for the Where a significant capital works programme past 10 years and if he will make a statement is required to respond to a cryptosporidium risk, regarding the testing procedure on water supplies funding is provided by my Department under the to identify the presence of abnormal levels of this Water Services Investment Programme. organism. [11958/07]

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Property Management Companies. Local Government (Mr. Roche): In recent years 273. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for the local authorities have notified my Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government suspected cryptosporidium infection of water sup- when the committee he set up to consider the plies in Carlow, Ennis, Mullingar and issues surrounding taking estates in charge and Roscommon. No evidence of such infection was management companies will conclude their work; subsequently found in the Carlow or if their report will be published; if that report will Roscommon supplies. be published within the lifetime of this Govern- My Department has issued detailed guidance ment; and if he will make a statement on the to all local authorities on minimising the risk of matter. [11962/07] cryptosporidium in water supplies. The guidance was prepared in consultation with the Depart- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and ment of Health and Children and the Environ- Local Government (Mr. Roche): My Department mental Protection Agency and, inter alia, covers set up a Working Group on Management source protection, monitoring, treatment pro- Companies/Taking in Charge of Estates which cesses, storage and distribution and responding to considered the question of responsibility for the an outbreak. maintenance of common shared facilities (roads, In November 2004, the National Disease Sur- sewerage, footpaths, public lighting, large open veillance Centre published the Report of the spaces, smaller landscaped open spaces, car-park- Waterborne Cryptosporidiosis Sub-Committee ing, etc) in residential estates, including the newer which has also been circulated to local auth- type of mixed high-density estate. The Group has 1475 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1476

[Mr. Roche.] arrangements as may be necessary for the pur- now completed its work and it is intended to issue poses of carrying out the functions of the local guidance shortly to planning authorities based on authorities for which he/she is responsible, sub- the outcome of its deliberations. ject to overall Government policy on the control and regulation of numbers in the public sector, Planning Issues. including local authorities, announced in the Minister for Finance’s Budget statement of 7 274. Ms C. Murphy asked the Minister for the December 2005. I am continuing to keep the Environment, Heritage and Local Government overall employment position in the sector under his views on the integrity of the planning system regular review, having regard to the need to if predicated on the ability of local authorities to deliver quality front line services and achieve enforce them; if his attention has been drawn to value for money within the parameters of the extent of reported unauthorised devel- Government policy on public service employ- opments and the timeframe they are dealt with by ment generally. county nationally; if a local authority has sought The Planning and Development Act 2000 gave sanction for the employment of additional staff in substantial additional powers to planning auth- relation to planning compliance; and if he will orities in the enforcement area. These were make a statement on the matter. [11968/07] further supplemented by provisions in the Plan- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and ning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) Local Government (Mr. Roche): According to Act 2006, which empowers planning authorities returns supplied to my Department for the to refuse permission to any developer who has Annual Planning Statistics 2005, a total of 6,419 seriously failed to comply with a previous plan- warning letters were issued by planning auth- ning permission and the developer will have to go orities in 2005, 2,667 enforcement cases were to the High Court if he wishes to apply to have initiated, 948 enforcement cases were complied this decision overturned. I am therefore satisfied with, a further 105 convictions were achieved and that local authorities have adequate resources planning authorities have the remainder in hands. and powers to take required action in such cases. Section 154 of the Planning and Development Act 2000 sets out the timeframes for dealing with Ministerial Appointments. enforcement notices under the Act. 275. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for the In relation to staffing, the Annual Statistics Environment, Heritage and Local Government indicate that 275 staff were engaged in planning the number of appointments to State boards, enforcement in planning authorities in 2005. State bodies or other like entities which he envis- There are no proposals with my Department ages making or nominating in the period 26 from local authorities for the employment of March 2007 to 31 May 2007; if he will identify any additional staff in relation to planning such board, body or entity involved; and if he will compliance. make a statement on the matter. [11976/07] The Draft Development Management Guide- lines, which will be finalised and published Minister for the Environment, Heritage and shortly, advise local authorities that adequate Local Government (Mr. Roche): The statutory staff, financial and other resources should be allo- processes involved in appointments to State cated to ensuring that compliance with the bodies and boards under the aegis of my Depart- development plan and planning conditions are ment are set out in reply to Questions Nos. 287 given the importance that they deserve. It is a and 288 of 8 March 2007. The number of such matter for the manager of each local authority, appointments or nominations envisaged in the under section 159 of the Local Government Act period 26 March 2007 to 31 May 2007 is set out 2001, to make such staffing and organisational in the following table:

Name Appointments/ Nominations envisaged between 26 March and 31 May 2007

An Bord Pleana´la 1 An Chomhairle Leabharlanna 1 Building Regulations Advisory Body 19 Comhar 8 Dublin Docklands Development Authority Board 8 Dublin Docklands Development Authority Council 25 Housing Finance Agency 3 National Building Agency 1 Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland 4 1477 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1478

End-of-Life Vehicles. the regulations, is a matter for the relevant local authority and my Department has no function in 276. Mr. N. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for the the matter. The licensing of relevant waste facili- Environment, Heritage and Local Government ties is a matter for the Environmental Protection the regulations for scrapping cars; the criteria to Agency, which is independent in the exercise of be met in establishing and laying out the site; and its statutory functions in this regard. the overall criteria for such a business. [11987/07] Special Areas of Conservation.

Minister for the Environment, Heritage and 277. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Envir- Local Government (Mr. Roche): Directive onment, Heritage and Local Government the 2000/53/EC of the European Parliament and of percentage of land, on a county basis and nation- the Council of 18 September 2000 on end-of life wide, that has been designated as included in vehicles (ELVs) sets out specific measures to be special areas of conservation; the percentage gui- put in place by EU Member States in relation to deline set by the EU in this regard; and if he will the collection, storage, treatment, dismantling, make a statement on the matter. [12087/07] reuse and recycling of end-of-life vehicles. Under 278. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Envir- the Directive, each Member State is required, onment, Heritage and Local Government the inter alia, to ensure that all end-of-life vehicles reason no consultation took place with persons are dismantled, treated and recovered at no cost affected in the recent designation of lands as to the final holder/owner of that vehicle and in a special areas of conservation in view of the manner that does not cause environmental impact this will have to land owners, land values pollution. and the future plans for the lands involved; and Enabling legislative provisions were included in if he will make a statement on the matter. the Protection of the Environment Act 2003 — [12088/07] which inserts a new part in the Waste Manage- ment Act 1996 — to facilitate the development 279. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Envir- of regulations concerning implementation of the onment, Heritage and Local Government the Directive. The Waste Management (End-of-Life amount of land of an area (details supplied) in Vehicles) Regulations 2006, which came into County Mayo that has been designated as effect on 8 June 2006, fully transpose the pro- included in a special area of conservation; if visions of the Directive in Ireland and have been objections have been lodged in this regard; and laid before each house of the Oireachtas. when a decision will be made on those objec- Any facility wishing to operate as an authorised tions. [12105/07] treatment facility for the collection and storage and treatment of end-of-life vehicles is required Minister for the Environment, Heritage and to hold a permit in accordance with the Waste Local Government (Mr. Roche): I propose to Management (Permit) Regulations 1998 or, as take Questions Nos. 277 to 279, inclusive, appropriate, a waste license in accordance with together. the Waste Management (Licensing) Regulations The following table shows the breakdown by 2004. The consideration of applications for waste county of hectarage proposed for designation as permits and the decision making process in SAC. The European Commission does not offer relation to the granting of waste permits, as well a guideline on the percentage of national cover- as ensuring compliance with the requirements of age that should be designated as a Special Area of Conservation (SAC).

County Area of county in HA cSAC Area in HA % Land covered by proposed cSACs

County Clare 319,773.09 38,398.90 12.01 County Cork 746,569.42 24,011.46 3.22 County Cavan 193,542.25 11,786.93 6.09 County Carlow 89,627.19 4,417.36 4.93 County Donegal 485,617.55 85,425.48 17.59 County Dublin 92,565.89 3,859.27 4.17 County Galway 612,429.28 129,270.64 21.11 County Kildare 169,535.88 1,728.12 1.02 County Kerry 475,000.06 119,697.04 25.20 County Kilkenny 206,337.18 4,285.13 2.08 County Laois 172,001.03 6,491.78 3.77 County Leitrim 159,009.41 17,842.05 11.22 County Longford 109,129.37 5,989.52 5.49 1479 Questions— 28 March 2007. Written Answers 1480

[Mr. Roche.]

County Area of county in HA cSAC Area in HA % Land covered by proposed cSACs

County Louth 82,559.06 3,861.56 4.68 County Limerick 268,557.32 5,999.64 2.23 County Mayo 559,763.32 124,702.53 22.28 County Meath 234,206.74 2,494.74 1.07 County Monaghan 129,544.64 49.45 0.04 County Offaly 200,103.48 6,486.69 3.24 County Roscommon 254,800.27 13,690.94 5.37 County Sligo 183,670.00 25,210.11 13.73 County Tipperary 425,455.04 14,509.29 3.41 County Waterford 183,812.93 10,392.32 5.65 County Wicklow 202,662.58 32,367.12 15.97 County Westmeath 183,950.36 9,490.51 5.16 County Wexford 235,889.00 6,570.63 2.79

Total (National figures excluding proposed 6,976,112.31 709,029.25 10.16 marine SAC’s)

Public consultation on proposed designation of Mweelrea/Sheeffry/Erriff Complex to which it is areas as proposed SAC is provided for under the assumed Question No. 279 refers. These objec- Habitats Regulations 1997-2005. Any person tions were received in early March and are under notified or with an interest in the land involved examination at present. Decisions will issue to the may within a period of three months lodge an objectors as soon as possible. objection to the proposal. My Department has received 33 objections to the proposed SAC to be known as