Lok Sabha Debates

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[Eighth Swiss, Vol. XLV, Twelfth Session, 198811910 (Saka)]

No. 23, Thursday, December 15. 1988/Agrahayana 24.1910 (Saka)

COLUMNS

'apers Laid on the Table 8-12

Public Accounts Committee- 13 Hundred and Fortieth Report- presented

Petition Re: Privatisation of 13 B.E.L. - Taloja unit

Matters Under Rule 377 - 13-21

(i) Need to direct the Government of Rajasthan 13-14 to ensure proper representation in jobs to backward classes -

Shn Shankar Lal

(ii) Need to sanction construction of a bridge over 14 river Sikarhana in Bihar in the next year's plan-

Shrimati Prabhawati Gupta

(iii) Need to check the spread of heart ailments, particularly 15 amongst the youth in the country -

Dr. Chandra Shekhar Trlpathi

(iv) Steps needed to encourage the use of Hindi and 15-16 other regionallanguaes -

Silri Madan Pandey

(v) Need to give clearance to the cotton procurement 16-17 scheme submitted by the Government of Maharashtra and also to ensure remunerative price for cotton -

Shrimati Usha Choudhari

(vi) Demand for revision of rate of royalty on oil to 18 Assam-

Shri Dinesh Goswami (ii)

COLUMNS

(vii) Need to remove the disparity in the levy price 1S-19 of sugar-

Shri Ram Narain Singh

(viii) Need to review the decision to discontinue the 19-20 Central Investment subsidy to non-manufacturing units-

Shri G.M. Banatwalla

(ix) Need to augment railway facilities in Bilaspur 20-21 (Madhya Pradesh)-

Dr. Prabhat Kumar Mishra

Constitution (SixtY-Second Amendment) Bill and Representation of 21-322 the People (Amendment) Bill

Motions to consider -

Shri Indrajit Gupta 22-36

Shri Jagan Nath Kaushal 36-53

Shri P. Kolandaivelu 53-5~

Shri Rajiv Gandhi 59-67

Shri Charanjit Singh Walia 67-70

Shri Balwant Singh Ramoowalia 70-72

Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo 72-77

Shri 0.8. Patil 78-S0

Shri Sultan Salah uddin Owaisi SO-S2

Shri Kali Prasad Pandey 82-85

Ch. Ram Prakash 85-87

Shri Satyendra Narayan Sinha 87-90

Shr; Shaminder Singh 90-92

Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara Rao 92-94 (iii)

COLUMNS

Shri Abdul Rashid Kabuli 94-95

Shri Brajamohan Mohanty 96-98

Shri Amal Datta 98-100

Shri B. Shankaranand 100-125

Clauses 2 and 1 of constitution (Sixty-Second Amendment) Bill 125-158

Motion to pass

Shri B. Shankaranand 141-142

Clasuses 2 to 16 and 1 of Representation of the people (Amendment) Bill 219-322

Motion to pass -

Shri B. Shankaranand 234-317

Shri K Ramachandra Reddy 317-318

Shri B.N. Reddy 318-320

Shri Thompan Thomas 320-321 LOK SABHA DEBATES

LOK SABHA ported that the Maharashtra Chief Minister stated in the Assembly that-the Union Home Minister has agreed ....

Thutsday lJBt»mbeI 15, 1988/Agrahayana MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. 24, 1910 (SakaJ

MR. SPEAKER: I will take action after The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the getting the facts verified. Clock SHRI H.N. NANJE GOWDA: It is shock- (MR SPEAKER in the ChairJ ing that the Maharashtra Chief Minister has said that the Un~n Home Minister has (lntsnuptions) agreed ... { Interruptions)

(EngIsh) MR. SPEAKER: Why are you shouting Mr. Veerendra Pati!? The Han. Member, MR.. SPEAKER : Please order, order. Shri Gowda is on his legs. I have allowed One-by one. Yes, Mr. Gowda. him. I will allow only one Member and not two. SHRI VEERENORA PATH.. (Gubarga) : You please dow me to make my submis- SHRI H.N. NANJE GOWDA: Sir, it is sion. more shocking because the Chief Minister has also stated and it is reported in the same MR. SPEAKER: I have aIowed Mr. Press that the Union Home Minister, Mr. Gowda.. Buta Singh has conceded the request of Maharashtra for a referendum .....•.. SHRI H.N.NAN.IE GOWDA (Hassan): We hav8 given a notice. In yesterdaYs In- MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Gowda. don' go on dian Post. a news item has appeared stat- Press reportrs until and unless I confirm. ing. ( Intenuptions) -Referendum on Border in March-. That is the caption. • is reported that MR. SPEAKER : Why are you shout- the Uaharashtra Chief Ynister..• ing? Please sit down.

MR. SPEAKER: You give it in wriling, I SHRI H.N. NANJE GOWDA: let the .. find out Home Minister deny it .

SHRI H.N. NANJE GOWDA : • is re- MR. SPEAKER : I wUl take adian 3 DECEMBER 15, 1988 4 cording to the facts. MR. SPEAKER: I will look into it. Not allowed. ( Interruptions) ( Interruptionst MR. SPEAKER : Does it cut much ice with me if you shout? Nothing goes on rec- SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: The Gov- ord. ernor has to act according to the advice of the Council of Ministers. ( Interruptions)· MR. SPEAKER: I will see to it. Now, sit MR. SPEAKER: I have told you once for down. all -you may say whatever you like Mr. ( Interruptions) Veerendra Patil. MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Acharia, I have heard you and over ruled you. Please sit SHRI VEERENDRA PATIL: let the down. Home Minister make a statement. SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Why, Sir? MR. SPEAKER: I have told you once for I have given a notice under Rule 184. all that I am to take action according to the giver) facts and not according to what you MR. SPEAKER: I have to go through say. I do not go on Press reports and I do not the process. believe them until and unless they are con- firmed. ( Interruptions)

( Interruptions) SHAI BASUDEB ACHARIA : What is your ruling? MR. SPEAKER: I will find out the facts first and then I will go to it. That is all. MR. SPEAKER : I will see to it Mr. Acharia, you are an Hon. Member and the SHRt VEERENORA PATll: We only leader of your group and still you shout like request the Home Minister to make a state- that. I said that I have to find facts and then ment and clarify. go according to it.

MR. SPEAKER: I will see to it, that is SHRI BASUDEB ACHAAIA: Facts are what I have said. Without finding facts he with you. cannot do it. MR. SPEAKER : Your motion is with SHRt BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): me. I will find out. Shri Kolandaivelu. Sir, I have tabled a motion under Rule 184. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: I will look into it. MR. SPEAKER : I have allowed Shri SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: The Gov- Kolandaivelu. ernment of Kerala refused to sign an ordi- nance approved by the Cabinet. ( Interruptions)

*Not recorded. 5 AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) 6

MR. SPEAKER: He is flouting the rules. Service Commission for the last three I don't know what to do with him. months. The Union Public Service Commis- sion is not prepared to accede to their re- SHRI BASUOEB ACHARIA: I am not quest to make Indian Languages as a me- flouting the rules. dium of examinations conducted by them even today. SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: (Gobichetti- palayam): I have given an Adjournment MR. SPEAKER : How dare they stop Motion. More than thousand Vanniyars have use of Hindi. been arrested ... (lnterruptions) SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI : It is a very MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Acharia. I have serious matter. allowed this gentleman. Don't you have any decency? Why do you interrupt him? MR. SPEAKER: No question.

SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: I have given SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI: Mr. Speaker, an adjournment motion. Sir, they want Indian languages.

MR. SPEAKER: I have not allowed it. MR. SPEAKER: Bairagiji, I think this matter came up earlier and it is com ing today SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: Sir, the also. Vanniyar agitation is going on. More than 12 buses have been burnt and more than a [English] thousand people have been arrested. Para- military Forces have been sent to Tamil I warn this Ministry also and I take Nadu. (Interruptions)* strong exception if something is done like that. I cannot allow it, and it shall not be allowed. I hope the Minister will take action MR. SPEAKER: Not allowed. immediately.

(Interruptions) * SHRI BASUOEB ACHARIA: What is your ruling Sir? SHRI BALWANT SINGH RAMOOW- ALIA (Sangrur) Sir, the Aanganwadi work- MR. SPEAKER: It is under my oonsid- ers of Punjab are not being paid well. They eration. will hold a convention in Bhatinda on 12th March. They have given a memorandum SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: The stating that they should be treated on par House will be adjourning tomorrow. with the primary teachers. MR. SPEAKER: It does not matter. We MR. SPEAKER: You can give it to me. will meet again.

[ Translation] SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS (Mav- SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI (Mandsaur) : elikara): I have given an adjournment mo- Mr. Speaker, Sir, students are observing tion about the Governor's role in relay fast in front of the office of Union Public Kerala ... (Interruptions)

*Not recorded. 7 oeceMBER 15. 1988 PaptNS Laid 8

MR. SPEAKER: I have not allowed it. 11.07 hrs.

SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: I have also PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE given a notice under Rule 184. [Eng/ish] ( Interruptions)" Review. on the working of and Annual MR. SPEAKER: Not allowed. Reports of Rehabilitation Industries Corporation Ltd., Calcutta for 1987-88, ( Interruptions)" Engineering Projects (India) Ltd., New Deihl for 1987-88, Mining and Allied PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Ra- Machinery Corporation Ltd., Durgapur japur): I have given a notice under Rule 184, for 1987-88 etc. etc. sending you some documents. The Eco- nomic Times has produced details that in THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY (SHRI spite of the directive of the Defence Minister J. VENGAL RAO): I beg to lay on the Table that in any contract of the Defence Ministry a copy each of the following papers (Hindi no middlemen should be used, they are and English versions) under sub-section (1) circumventing the guidelines and contracts of section 619A of the Companies Act, are gIven through middlemen. I have pro- 1956:- duced the documents. (a) (i) A statement regarding review MR. SPEAKER: I will see to it. by the Government on the working of the Rehabilitation Indus- SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY tries Corporation Limited, Cal- (Katwa): Sir, I have given many notices. In cutta, for the year 1987-88. this Nehru Centenary Year what has come to our notice is very sad ... (ii) Annual Report of the Reha- bilitation Industries Corporation MR. SPEAKER: What? Limited, Calcutta, for the year 1987-88 along with Audited SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: Accounts and comments of the The Nehru Yuvak Kendras have been con- Comptroller and AuditorGeneral verted into a wing of the Congress (I). thereon. (Placed in Library. See No. LT-7069/88] SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: It is a serious matter. (b) (i) A statement regarding review by the Government on the work- SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: We ing of the Engineering Projects have given notices also. (India) Limited. New Delhi. for the year 1987-88.

MR. SPEAKER: I will see to it. (ii) Annual Report of the Engi- neering Projects (India) Limited, New Delhi. for the year 1987-88 along with Audited Accounts and

*Not recorded. 9 Papers Laid AGRAHAYANA 24. 1910 (SAKA) Papers Laid 10

comments of the Comptroller (f) (i) A statement regarding review and Auditor General thereon. by the Government on the work- [Placed in library. See No. LT- ing of the National Instruments 7070/88] Limited, Calcutta. for the year 1987-88.

(c) (i) A statement regarding review (ii) Annual Report of the National by the Government on the work- Instruments Limited, Calcutta, ing of the Mining and Allied for the year 1987-88 along with Machinery Corporation Limited, Audited Accounts and com- Durgapur, for the year 1987-88. ments of the comptroner and Auditor General thereon. (ii) Annual Report of the Mining [P\aced in Library. See No. LT- and Allied Machinery Corpora- 7074/88] tion Limited, Ourgapur, for the year 1987-88 along with Audited Annual Report and Review on the Accounts and comments of the working of Rajghat Samadhl CommHtee Comptroller and Auditor General for 1987-88 thereon. [Placed in library. See No. LT-7071188] THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT (d) (i) A statement regarding review (SHRt DALBtR SINGH): I beg to lay on the by the Government on the work- Table-- ing of the Instrumentation Lim- ited, Kota. for the year 1987-88. (i) (i) A copy of the Annual Report (Hindi and English versions) of (ii) Annual Report of the Instru- the Rajghat Samadhi Commit- mentation Limited, Kota, for the tee for the year 1987-88 along year 1987-88 along with Audited with Audited Accounts. Accounts and comments of the Comptroller and Auditor General (ii) A copy of the Review (Hindi thereon. [Placed in Library. See and English versions) by the No. L T-7072188] Government on the working of the Rajghat Samadhi Commit- (e) (i) A statement regarding Re- tee for the year 1987-88. [Placed view by the Government on the in Library. 56e No. LT-7075/88] working of the Bharat Ophthal- micGlass Limited, Durgapur, for Notifications under Companies Act, the year 1987-88. 1956

(ii) Annual Report of the Bharat THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Ophthalmic Glass Limited, Our- DEPARTMENT OF INDUSTRIAL DEVEL- gapur, for the year 1987-88 OPMENT IN THE MINISTRY OF INDUS- along with Audited Accounts and TRY (SHRI M. ARUNACHALAM): I beg to comments of the Comptroller lay on the Table- and Auditor General thereon. {Placed in Library. S96 No. LT- (1) A copy each of the following 7073188] Notifications (Hindi and English 11 Papers Laid DECEMBER 15, 1988 Papers Laid 12

versions) under sub-section (3) (ii) A copy of the Review (Hind of sectior. 642 of the Companies and English ver~ions) by the Act, 1956:- Government on the working of the Engineering Export Promo- tion Council, Calcutta for the (i) The Company Law Board year 1987-88. [Placed in (Bench) (Second Amendment) Library. See No. LT-7077/881 Rules, 1988 published in Notjfi- cation No. S.O. 945(E) in Ga- Annual Report and Annual Accounts of zette of India dated the 14th Employees' State Insurance Corpora- October, 1988. tion for 1987-88 and Consolidated Annual Accounts of Employee~. (ii) The Companies (Central Provident Fund Organisation, New Government's) General Rules Delhi for 1987-88 and Forms (Fifth Amendment) Rules, 1988 published in NotIfi- THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE cation No. G.S.R. 1032(E) in MINISTRY OF LABOUR AND DEPUTY Gazette of India dated the 26th MINISTER IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIA- October, 19BB. MENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI RADHAK- ISHAN MALAVIY A): I beg to lay on the Table- (2) A copy of the Notiflcatior, No. G.S.R. 800 (Hmdi and English (1) A copy of the Annual Report versions) published in Gazette (Hindi and English versions) of of India dated the 8th October, the Employees' State Insurance 1988 declaring Mis. Dravindian Corporation for the year 1987- Benefit Fund Limited, Madras as 88. 'Nidhi', under section 620A of the Companies Act, 1956. [Placed (2) A copy of the Annual Accounts in Library. See No. LT-7076/881 (Hindi and English versions) of the Employees' State Insurance Corporation for the year 1987-B8 Annual Report and Review on the togethel with Audit Report working of Engineering Export Promo- thereon. [Placed in Library. See tion Council, Calcutta, for 1987-88 No. LT-7078/88]

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE (3) A copy of the Consolidated MINISTRY OF COMMERCE (SHRI P.R. Annual Accounts (Hindi and DAS MUNSI): I beg to lay on the Table- English versions) of the Employ- ees Provident Fund Organisa- (1) (i) A copy of the Annual Report tion, New Delhi. for the year (Hind and English versions) of 1987-88 together with Audit the Engineering Export Promo- Report thereon. [Placed in tion Council, Calcutta for the Library. See No. LT-7079/88) year 1987-88 along with Audited Accounts. 13 P.A.C. Repon AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) MatteI'S Under 14 Rule 377

11.08 hr•• Speaker, Sir, articles 15(4) and 16(4) of our Constitution provides that educationally and [English] socially backward people should be given special amenities. The recommendations PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE made in the report of the Mandai Commis- sion which was appointed by the Govern- Hundred and fortieth Report ment under article 340 of the constitution, are still under oonsideration of the Govern- SHRI AMAl DATTA (Diamond Har- ment. The Department of Social Welfare in bour): I beg to present the Hundred and Rajasthan has published a separate list of Fortieth Report (Hindi and English versions) backward classes for district Ajmer and of Public Accounts Com mittel:. on Wheel and remaining parts of Rajasthan. There is no Axle Plant, Yelahanka. provision to provide any facilities to the unemployed and weaker sections of society in securing Government job as these are available in other States. The Central Gov- ernment should issue suitable instructions to 11.81/2 hrs. the Government of Rajasthan in this regard.

PETITION RE: PRIVATISATION OF (II) Need to sanction construction BEl-TAlOJA UNIT of bridge over river Sikarhana In Bihar In next, year'. plan [English] SHRIMATI PRABHAWATI GUPTA SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): (Motihari): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the river I beg to present a petition signed by Shri Sikarhana (Burhi Gandak) divides East Sanjeev Shetty and other workers of Bharat Champaran district in the State of Bihar into Electronics limited regarding privatisation two parts. The entire area on the other side of BEl-Taloja unit. of the river remains full of greenary and is very fertile. But even then this area is very backward owing to lack of transportation facilities. Even after 40 years of independence the headquarters of this district re- 11.09 hrs. mains cut off from Motihari and the State capital Patna for 5 months during the year due to floods and rainy season. During the MATTERS UNDER RULE 377 Monsoon the entire area remains inundated and looks like vast sea. During that period no [ Translation] means of transport is available there. In view of this the life of 1.5 million people becomes (J) Need to direct the Govern- hell. Keeping in view the critical position of ment of Rajasthan to ensure transport, I request the Central Government proper representation In Jobs to issue suitable instructions to the State to backwar" classes Government of Bihar to indude the plan of constructing bridges over Sikarahana river at Katahaghat and Bhurkukhgat in the next SHRI SHANKAR lAl (Pali): Mr. annual plan of the Bihar State. 15 Matters Under DECEMBER 15.1988 Rule377 16

(III) Need to check the spread of Mr. Speaker. Sir, even after 40 years of heart aliments, partlcularty independence, it appears that English has among81 the youth In the been dominating allover the country. All Country work starting from education to offICeS is being done in English only. If someone does DR. CHANDRA SHEKHAR TRIPAlHl not possess knowledge of English he re- (Khalilabad): Mr. Speaker. Sir. today while mains deprived of higher education and on the one hand the people in the country higher post. A country can develop only suffer from so many ailments and the Gov- when its language is developed and the ernment is making aJl effo.-is to relieve countryman feel proud of speaking and us- people of these ailments by setting up hos- ing it. In our country while on the one hand pitals for treatment and by carrying out re- the Public Service Commission has been search programmes for new discoveries on prescribing English as a compulsory subject the other hand. the number of patients is for the Indian Administrative Service Exami- increasing constantly. The rise in the inci- nations, on the other hand the Department of dence of heart ailments has become a mat- OfficiaJ language which is supposed to be ter of great concern. According to a recently the agency of promoting use of Hindi. has conducted survey. at present about 3 crore itself been using English instead of Hindi in people are suffering from heart ailments in its Conferences. H the very agency en- the entire country. In Delhi alone about 2.5 trusted with the task of implementing Hindi lakh people between the age group of 25 to win not carry on its work in Hindi. what could 64 years are heart patients. About 9 lakh be expected of other departments? Similar people are suffering from hypertension treatment is being meted out to other Indian which may increase the chances of cardiac languages in their usa. arrest. It is distressing that this ailment -is spreading on an alarming scale among I. therefore. appeal to the Government young boys and girls. As per the break of India to take cona-ete steps for the use of through so far achisved in this direction. Hindi and other Indian languages and recruit patients of this ailment can be saved uptothe such offICerS in the institutions entrusted second attack, but it becomes very difficult to with the rasponsbility of implementing In- save any patient on the third attack. The dian languages. no matter whether it is the treatment of heart patients is very costly and case of Hindi or any other Indian languages, a common man dies an untimely death. who should have high proficiency of those languages and a strong zeal to implement I. therefore. appeal to the han. Minister them besides posing a good knowledge of of Health and Famity Welfare to take some these languages. concrete steps in this direction in order to relieve people of this ina-easing ailment so (v) Need to give clearar.- to cot- that spreading of this disease among the ton procurement scheme youth and people could be checked effec- submitted by Government of tively and people could be saved from un- llaharashtra and alao to en- timely death. sure remunerative price for cotton (Iv) Stapa needed to encourage the use of Hindi and other SHRIMATI USHA CHOUDHARI reglonallanguagea (Amravati): Mr. Speaker. Sir. Maharashtra is one of the colton growing States and • SHRI MADAN PANDEY (Gorakhpur): accords lOp priority to cotton growers' inter- 17 MatteI'S Under AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Rule 377 18 ests. In order to protect the coI1on growers [English) from being exploited by the middlemen and give fuU remunerative price to them tor their (vI) Demand for revision of rate of produces Maharashtra is the only State royalty on OU to Assam which c.onstitutad Cotton Federation and formulated Cotton Monopoly Scheme. But SHRt DINESH GOSWAMI (Guwahati): the State Government wiH have 10 approach The Stale of Assam is facing acute financial the Centre tor permission time and again to crisis. Inspite of this, the Central Govern- implement the Cotton Monopoly Scheme- ment has not revised the oil royaity due to the and though the scheme is in the interest of State Government since 1.4.1987. The the farmers, the State Government will have Government of Assam has demanded As. to face enormous difficulties in implementing 340/- pqr tonne on the t:asis of 20% of the the same and obtaining permission from the sale price of crude to the refineries, and has Centre. The duration of the existing permis- advanced justifiable arguments in support of sion expires on 30.6.1989. The Government the demand. Though the oil cess has been of Maharashtra has urged the T exlile De- increased to a h:gh percentage. and the partment of Central Government to give Government of india's profit from the crude extension to the said scheme lor ten years. has increased suostantially, the State Gov- I, therefore request the Government of India ernment has been deprived of its legitimate to give permission to this scheme for ten due. I demand for immediate revision of the years at a time keeping in view the interest of royalty at the rate demanded by the State the farmers. Govemment. and also for a share of the profit from the crude to be earmarked for the Secondly, the performance of our coun- State Government. try in cotton production is very good and its production could increase further if more (vii) Need to remove the disparity attention is paid to export instead of import- in the levy prlC8 of sugar ing cotton. if the grower is given adequate remuneration for his produce, he will make SHRI RAM NARAIN SINGH (Bhiwani): an all out effort to sea that production is There has been tremendous development in increased further. For this, there should be a Haryana in Sug3J'C8ne production. its quality proper announcement of import-export pol- and recovery. resulting in $ubstantial in- icy of cotton. D9spite heavy rains this year crease in State and C9ntral revenues. Hary- the cotton production in Maharashtra is likely ana Government has given As. 35/- per to reach 20 lakh bales and the position is quintal to the cane-growers, whict1 is the almost the same in the rest mthe country. highest price in the country. In addition. There is fear that the price of cotton may not cooperative mills in the Stat9 have paid As. 1)C down if its production rises. Therefore. 15.26 crores or. account of old losses. The the Government should ensure that under outstanding cane arrears, including interest no circumstances the farmw might nave to thereon, amounting to Rs. 22 Iaidls have resort te distress saie. also been paid to the cana-growers by tha miU-owners. while no sugar factory in the It is requested that keeping in view the country has paid even a single paisa as interests of farmers approval maybe given to interest to the cane-growers. continue the Cott.,n Monopoly Scheme submitted by the Govemment of Maharash- Haryana Government have earned a tra ur*' 10 years and permission may also profit of As. 4 croras in 1987-88. Whereas be given to the Government of Maharashtra the Central GovRmment should give incen- to elCpOrt cotton. tives and awards to Govem~nt of Haryana 19 Matters Under DECEMBER 15, 1988 Rule377 20

[Sh. Ram Narain Singh] the authorities had insisted on certificates to the effect that the various items had been for improving production and quality of sug- duly paid for, the units that had made invest- arcane, and achieving better recovery, it has ments prior to sanction of projects are now penalised the cane-growers by reducing the rendered ineligible for subsidy. price of levy sugar to Rs. 423. - per quintal. In other States, it is Rs. 459/- per quintal. The The discontinuance of the Central sugar factories in the State would be put to Investment Subsidy Scheme will hit hard the loss as a consequence. and would not be backward districts. tn the absence of able to pay remunerative prices to cane- adequate infrastructLlre, it is these subsidies growers. which sttract various units and projects. In the case of the backward district cf Malappu- I. therefore, request the Government to ram, for example, nearly three-hundred remove the disparity in the levy price of units face dosure. Discontinuance of the sugar in Haryana, and bring it at par with the scheme is a denial of economic develop- prices prevailing in other States in the ooun- ment to backward districts, in particular. try. I appeal to the Government that the (viii) Need to review the decision to scheme be continued. discontinue the Central In- vestment subsidy to non- { Translation] manufacturing units (Ix) Need to augment railway fa- SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnani)· cltitles In Bllaspur (Madhya The Government have decided to disoon- Pradesh) tinue the Central investment subsidy to non- manufacturing units. While a number of DR. PRABHAT KUMAR MISHRA manufacturing industries like garment-mak- (Janjgir): Mr. Speaker. Sir, Bilaspur in ing, wood-based industries, saw mills, print- Madhya Pradesh is the divisional headquar- ing etc. form part of the list of the ineligible ter of t"e South-Eastern Railway. Although ones, the decision hits hard and destroys a this division earned maximum income and large number of small scale industries. Fur- received substantia~ benefits during the last ther, it is shocking that the decision to dis- 4 years, yet its requirements have not been continue the Central investment subsidy is fulfilled. to apply with retrospective efte::!. Cancella- tion of subsidy sandicmed, but not disbursed We have demanded many times that is not only highly unjust and objectionable as 10th Railway Zone should be set up at a serious breach offaith, but would also deal Bilaspur (M.P). Direct train services should a fatal blow to the small scale entrepreneurs be provided from Korba to Bilaspur. Chhat- who have entered inte the field with bor- tisgarh Express should be run from Korba to rowed money, or who based their projects on Bhopal and Mahanadi Express from the promised subsidy. In most cases, delay Bilaspur to Delhi. Bilaspur-Mugeli- in the disbursement of subsidy has been due Mandla--Jabalpur railway line should be to governmental laxity or lapses. Similarly, sandioned for which survey is being con- the relevant notification in the Ministry of ducted. The proposad railway over-bridge Industry, Department of Industrial Develop- between Bilaspur and Sirgitti should be ment, suffers from a number of ambiguities, constructed at the earliest. All roads which infirmities and contradictions. Thus, while come under the railway area in Nail- 21 Matters Under AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Constitution (Sixty- 22 Rule 377 Second Amdt) Bill & Representa- tion of People (Amdt.) Bill

lachampa, Akaltara, etc. should be repaired got only one hour more left forthe discussion and gates provided at every railway cross- with us. Shri Indrajit Gupta will start the ing. These are the mO$t essential and mini- discussion. mum demands and should be met at the earliest in public interest. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Ra- japur): You give the entire one hour to him, Champa is a major junction and the rail- Sir. head of Korba industrial town. There is a distance of 40 kms between Champa and SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY Korba. Therefore, a railway hospital with all (Mahbubnagar): What about those who facilities should be opened at Champa which tabled tl1e amendments? should not only benefit th6 railway employees but also others. The proposal to link MR. SPEAKER: We will see to that later Gevra Road Station either with Gatora or on. Uslapur will reduce the distance between Bilaspur and Korba by 40 kms. This should SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO be included in the next year's Budget. (Parvathipuram): In one hour we may not be able to get a chance to speak.

MR. SPEAMER: There is no time left 1'1.20 hrs. with me. We have decided and we have to finish it within that time. I can give you five CONSTITUTION (SIXTY-SECOND) minutes. It is like this. Out of the allotted time. AMENDMENT BILL only 26 minutes are left with me. I have given you full time. Now I cannot do anything about AND it. We have been violating the rule. We cannot advance the t:rne allotted by th~ REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE Business Advisory Committee of the whole (AMENDMENT) BILL-Coi,M. House; and that is one hour. But I a!lcwed you two hours. [English] ( Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: The House s!1all now take up furtn~r -c.-O'isideration of the followi ng MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Basudeb Acharia, motions moved by Shri B. Shankaranand, you are a part and parcel of the decision. on the 14th December, 1988, namel~:- Now you are going back. Please sit dow" now. ''That the Bill further to amend the Constitution of India, be taken into ( Interruptions) consideration. • MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Kishore Dec, I will "That the Bill further to ame"d the give you five minutes. Since you are an Representation of the People Act, intelligent member, you· can make all the 1950 and the Representation of the points in five minutes. P~le Act. 195 ~. be taken into consideration.- SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (Basirhat): You can call another meetir.g of the Busi- I might remind the House that we have ness Advisory Committea ..• (JnterruptiotlS) 23 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 R9pI'8S9ntation 24 Second Amdt.) BiN & of People (Amdt.) BHI

MR. SPEAKER: What can I do now? how did the debate go. One thing he said Mr.lndrajit Gupta, now. you can carry on. I was that as far as the Constitution Amend- think much debate has taken place. Now, ment goes, it was like an obituary notice. You you can pin-point the specific points. which kno~ his usual sense of humour. He said you want to make. Otherwise, there will be a that everybody here spoke and sentence repetition. You can give :'"lew points. supporting and that was the end of it.

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: He will MR. SPEAKER: That is it. say the same points but in a different way. SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Should I add MR. SPEAKER: He will put the old win. to that obituary notice? I read in the press into a new bottle with a different label. reports today that there was some sort of a competition going on in the discussion as to SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA (Basirhat): who could lay the earlier claim having made express my regret that I was not able to be this demand for reducing the voting age from present here when this discussion on this 21 to 18. Well, it is not a question of compe- very important matter, two amending Bills, tition, but is is a fact that many parties have began yesterday and continued the whole of been demanding this reduction for many yesterday. I am sorry I was not here. The long years. I can say, our party has submit- biggest part of my constituency had been ted it to the Election Commission at least 10 devastated by the recent cyclone and, there- or 15 years age. However, it is a good thing; fore. I had to be away. After coming here this soon or late, better later than never. We morning, I asked myoid friena, Prof. Madhu wholeheartedly support this. But then, there Dandavate how the debate went on yester- should be some logic in the whole thing. H day. you are prepared to reduce the voting age from 21 to 18, then why should we not also MR. SPEAKER: The way he speaks, no consider reducing the minimum age of the longer can you caH him 'old'. people who are qualified to sit in this House which is now 25? Tna people who are voting SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: 'Old ftiend' I for them can b& pe~m itted to do so hence said. 'Old' is the qualifying word for'friend'. forward at the age of 18. I would suggest that the minimum age for people to be qualified to MR. SPEAKER: Then it is all right. be members of ParliSlment and legislators which is at present 25 years should also be PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Even a reduced to 21. There is nothing wrong. We dying man never concedes to be old. should have a comprehensive outlook about this whole thing. Why do we think in this SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: Daroavateji piecemeal fashion. I do not follow. is young in eYf:lry sense of the term. The Statement of Objects and Reas(lns tAR. SPEAKER: Yes. prepared by Mr. Shankaranand has described the young people as being the pres- SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): ent day youth, it says, they are literate and Honey is sweeter. enlightened. Literate is not the accurate word. There may be many of them who MR. SPEAKER: Yes. untol tunately may not be literate. But that does not mean that they are not politically SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: I asked him conscious. And he has also said that the 25 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 26 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill present day youth are very much politically being exercised? How is it actually being conscious. It he is politically conscious brought into operation during the last many enough to ,cast his vote, there is no reasons years which we have been seeing? There is why he cannot sit in this House. And, there- nothing in this Bill at all to act as an effective fore, I would suggest that you may come deterrent to the misuse of money power. forward as soon as you can with some more What have you put here? You have not even legislation amending these things, because provided for the State funding, at least a this is a very piece-meal type of exercise portion of the expenses to be funded by the altogether and we want a more comprehen- State which is a common pradice now-a- sive bill. Anyway, my party fully supports this days in many countries. At least they could Constitution Amendment and we hope that easily make a provision for State funding, for you will come forward with some more ideas providing the parties or the candidates with which will fit in with this whole idea of pro- some of the technical requirements for gressive legislation which will help to make which they have to spend money like voters' the whole electoral system and the work of list, voters' identity slips, some amount of the legislators themselves mora democratic postage, some funding fer transport pur- and reflecting more clearly the actual senti- poses. Nothing is provided here. But without ments and feelings of the people outside. giving them anything in the way of State contribution, you are dem:mding that the As fdr as the other bill is concerned, of parties must ~ reg,istered. Why should the course there are so many points in it. Some party be registered when it is getting nothing of them are, I should say, more or less in exchange from the Government? If you technical sort of points or procedural points. are providing some amount of State funding. But I would just request the Government to I can very well understand and I would sup- see thai how many of these changes which port the idea of registration of the parties. But are being proposed, which look quite good what for are you wanting them to be regis- on paper, many of them, not all of them-I tered now? Moreover, much of the registra- am coming to that later-but those which tion provisions also will not be imple- look good on paper are really capable of mentable on the ground. For eXaJT1ple. you being implemented on the ground. If they are have said that an application which is made not capable of being implemented on the by any party for registration should indude ground, that means they are capable of various things, including a specific provision being evaded without much difficulty. Then, that the association or body shall bear true simply incorporating them in the legislation faith and allegiance to the Constitution of will not only help in the long run but it may India as by law established and to the prin- further erode the credibility of the whole ciples of socialism, secularism and democ- system. racy. That means you want them to declare their loyalty to the Constitution. To that For example, you have been talking a extent, nobody can take exception. If there is lot about money power. There is nothing in any party which is not willing to declare that this Bill which will really act as a deterrent it wiH abide by the provisions of the against the misuse of money power. For Constitution. well certainly it should not be example, there is no ceiling put on the elec- treated as a party for the purposes of partici- tion expenses to be incurred by parties. pating in elections. But what is the guarantee There is nothing. The sky is the limit. The here that an utterly oommunal person or a donations by companies whether over the communal party will not also declare that he table or under the table will continue as believes in secularism. Is there anything to before. So, actually how is this money power prevent it? What Is there to prevent any 27 ConstiWtion (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 28 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. Indrajit Gupta] parliamentary democracy where we have got pluralist system of political parties, even representative of one of the big business I can understand their saying that they must houses declaring that he believes in social- believe in secularism, they must ~elieve in ism? They are doing it everyday. These democracy. But how should you compel things have no meaning in actual practice. everybody to say that they believe in socialism? 11.32 hrs. Suppose he does not believe in social- [MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in the Chaiij ism, will you exclude him from the voting process? I do not mind personally. You can Moreover Sir, I noticed one of the pa- excluded anybody who says that he is not in pers today, of course maybe with its own favour of socialism. But does it fit in with the motives, has questioned the right of the concept of a pluralistic democracy which, Government to insist that every party must after all. you are trying to function in this declare its loyalty to socialism. 'have consid- country? Do not do unnecessary things ered myself a behever in socialism, even which are qu!te unable to be implemented on more than socialism. But why should you ti1e ground. That is the point I am trying to insist? This argument may sound strangely make. coming from me. But' think you must consider it. You want to compel everybody in There is nothing here which says what every party to say that they believe in social- are these other particulars. In clause 29A. ism, which they may not want sub-clause "6 it is mentioned that the to ... ( Interruptions) Commission may call for such other par.icu- lars as it may deem fit from an association or SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL (Chan- a body. I do not support this ki:1d of omnibus digarh): Constitution says so. power being given to the Commission. What is the "meaning of such other particulars?" SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: But the They may want to know so many things. If Constitution said it in the Preamble. When they want to know whether any party is the Swantantra party was first formed and regularly holding its inner-party elections, came to this House in fairly good numbers, please put it here because that is very nec- could you expect the Swantantra party to say essary for the democratic process. Many that it must believe in socialism. Why is it so? parties have got their constitutions in which They were not a party of socialism. They it is written that they will regularly hold elec- were a party against tions of their party body. But the first party to socialism ... ( Interruptions) be de-registered on that ground would be the Congress Party which has not held its inner- SHRIJAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: That is party elections for the last perhaps 10 years. why they were evaporated ... (Int9"uptions) SHRI S. JAIP.4L REDDY: 16 years. SHRI INORAJIT GUPTA: Therefore, there is no meaning in this .... (lnterruptions) SHRIlNDRAJITGUPTA: Idonotknow.

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Why Will the Commission have this power to apply to Congress? ask every party organisation to state categorically not only whether in their SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: Anyway, in a constitution there is such a provision but 29 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Rspresentation 30 Second Arndt.) Bill & of Psopis (Amdt.) Bill whether in actual practice, they are adhering democratic. Many colleagues of mine have to it and regularly carrying out party elec- spoken about the Election Commission. that tions? Otherwise, what is the meaning of it? is to say, the selection and constitution of the I think. yOL} should not fight shy of putting Election CoMmission. This has become a such things in here. It will strengthen the very very sensitive and important matter whole democratic fabric and all the parties now. The Election Commission as an institu- concerned. I am sure. would agree to it. tion should be held above all suspicion or any kind of doubts about its impartiality and PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Major- functioning.That is essential. It is one of the ity will defeat that amendment. fundamental basic institutions on whose functioning depends the healthy conduct of SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Some all the elections in this col:ntry. Many things friends, I find from the record, have already have happened in the recent past. I do not spoken about replacing the present system want to go into all th at or to cast reflections on by a system of proportional representation. anybody, but at present we are not satisfied Therefore. I do not want to repeat those that the Election Commission is alwaysfunc- points very much. The reasons for it are quite tioning in a manner which is really impartial clear. And it will apply to every party. It does and which is free of any kind of political not apply to a particular party. It applies at the influence Oi political pressures. That is not Centre and it applies at the States also the case. Therefore, we have made sugges- where different parties are ruling, but with a tions. Here many amendments have also minority vote of 40 per cent, 45 per cent or been tabled. I would like to know what is your less than 50 per cent are able to get a specific objection to the suggestio:1 that the majority of seats and go on ruling for years Chief Election Commissioner, to begin with, together. Of course, atthe Centre it has been should be a person whCJ is appointed either happening all along. Is this a correct rE)pre- in consultation with the parties or let three sentation of democracy? Moreover, the people be given the authority-the Prime present system puts a premium, a big pre- Minister, the Chief Justice of the Supreme mIUm, on considerations other than policies Court and one senior Member from the and programmes of parties like caste con- Opposition. Let the three of them suggest siderations. communal considerations, the names. What is the wrong in it? That will other types of considerations and giving make it much more impartial, looking at priority to a particular individual, a personal- least, and would be more plausible that it is ity rather th3n the party and its programme. a body which is not likely to succumb to any These things are encouraged by the present kind of undesirable political pressures. But ~ystem. That is why, we have been always you are not considering any kind of reconsti- pr'dssing for the introduction of the system of tution of this Commission. We do not want it pn.lpOrtional representation or call it the list to be a one-man CoMmission. One man, S j's"'am or whatever it is so that focus should however honest and however well-inten- b", on the policies and programmes of differ- tioned he may be, but one man--any man, ent parties. Anif that is the basis of it which any individual-is always liable to make they should stand and fight and that is the mistakes. to become a little bit subjective basi~ on which the voter should make his and to not act from strictly impartial and chcic.:... However, I know, you are not agree- objective viewpoint. Therefore, we have ing to 7 ~ .-\1 and you will not agree to that suggested that there should be a three-man easily. H :)N.~ver. we shall continue to press Commission or a five-man Commission. The for this ClI. c-:ndment in the Constitution so Minister. , believe, has said that there is that the system can be really made more nothing to prevent it under the law. But 31 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Rspressntation 32 Second Amdt) BiD & o( Ps0p/8 (Amdt.) Bil

(Sh. Indrajit Gupta] Constitution. So. you please consider these matters carefully and do not rush ahead with nothing has prevented it all these years aJso. things which, as I say, and again I repeat. \\ ill The point is that the Government does not not be operable or capable of implementa- seem to be at all inclined to make this tion on the ground and will lead to more Commission a three-o-man or a five--man complications and troubles. Of course. the Commission and to be selected in a way amending Bill is disappointing in the sense which will give greater credibility to its func- that it is a piecemeal effort; it is not acompre- tioning as an impartial body which is so hensive thing. I am all in favour of the photo important for the whole process of demo- identity cards provided they are made for cratic elections. mUltiple purpose. Let me inform the Minister that in my constituency, not my present Connected with that has arisen the constituency, the constituency from where I question of all officials who work during the contested first time that I came to this House period of elections. whether they are State in 1960 in a by-eladion. then the Election Government employees or police officials Commission tried this experiment in that and others, being considered to be on depu- constituency. Calcutta South West. for hav- tation with the Election Commission. This is ing photo-identity cards for all the voters. I what you have brought here as an amend- had opposed it for practical reasons. The ment. I you make changes. as we are sug- matter went to the High Court in Calcutta. gesting. regarding the composition and $f'- The Court upheld the introduction of this lection of the Election Commission, then this system though it was only in one constitu- thing would be understandable. intelligible ency at that time. What difficuhy we faced? I that all the staff, all these officers and offi- think half the voters would never get photo- cials, the Polling officers, Presiding Officers, graphed till the end, till the polling date came. police officers and everybody should be on Some professional photographers were deputation to the Election Commission. It is enlistee and paid so much are able to take so understandable. But not as things stand at many photographs during the day. So, they present. Therefore, will the State Govern- go about from house to house and in our ment come into the picture or not when the country all sorts of people, different commu- Election Commission decides, let us say, nit~s ana classes are living in different sorts that in a particular State or a district or an of areas. They turn up to take photographs area or a town. it is nscsssary to induct during the day time. They cannot go about in CentraJ security forces during the election? night time. They go in day time 'and well What happens to the other provision in the generally menfolk are away at work. They Constitution that in order to induct Cent~al have gone to offices or factories or some- para-military forces, if not to request the where. Only womenfolk are at home during State Government. at least they should be the day time. The photographer comes consulted and their approval should be along and says "I have rome from the Elec- taken? But here you are making a blanket tion Body and come on I am going to photo- provision. 'What happens if the Election graph you". In some places pandemonium Commission says that we feel that for the took place. He was chased away. I can tell proper conduct of elections. the CAP or the you that , don' mean offence to anybody in BSF or somebody has to be sent to a particu- my constituency. In Calcutta South West. far place? State Government does not come there is one segment where a majority of the anywhere in the picture but then that will population belong to the minority community infringe on the powers of the Stat" Govern- and turning up there in the day time when the ment under the other provision of the men were away to take photograph of the 33 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) .R8pr9sentation 34 Second Amdt.) BRI & of People (Arndt.) BiR

MusHm ladies is an impos.~ible thing. No- SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: There body agreed that they were able to do it and is a provision, that is, a person convicted by I can quite understand it. Then somebody court in India and sentenced to imprison- started some rumours saying that -don't ment for not less than two allow yourseH to be photographed. These years ... (/ntfl"uptions} You should try to see, photographs are being taken to regiment in some cases it is fe~ than six months, in you into the army. You will be taken for some cases it is two years, that is the distinc- military purpose. So, the men should not be tion. Otherwise for any offence he has to be allowed for photograph". punished for not less than two years.

So. Sir, I think that this card is necessary PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: You for identity purposes. But it will only succeed can generally say, 'No man of conviction will if it is made for multiple purposes, that is, the be allowed to stand'! (Interruptions) card is used for other purpose like for ration- ing, etc. and for other purposes. Then people SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: In that case will have some incentive to get photo- only Congress will be qualified, Sir. graphed. H you,do it only for the purpose of voting in our country. in our society, I can tell SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: It strikes me you that a big section of the voters will be as some kind of verbal quibbling of al1 these excluded and the photographs will never be things. ff a person is convicted for not Jess taken. So, please consider this. About elec- than six months, thet'l no harm. He may have tronic voting machines, well provided they been convicted under some of these Acts, function properly they can be considered. I but he has not been sentenced to more than am told that they keep breaking down. six months. Then he is free to stand. He is a man of unimpeachable moral character in that case. But if the conviction is for a slightly Lastly, Sir, I do not want to repeat the longer period, then he falls within the ambit other points. , am in full agreement with what of this. So, I don't think all these things are my colleagues here have said. But I would going to make any difference on the ground. say one thing that you have declared in this You have not said anything about people Bill who are the categories of people who will who are guiltyof,let us say, infanticide. What not be allowed to stand. But you have not about that? He may be, he won't come under said anything about who are the people who this, or there may be, no amount of these will be allowed to stand. What about that? prosecutions and convictions or non-convic- Even your list of people who will be excluded tions can prevent somebody from beating from standing is not at all comprehensive in his wife at home. He can beat his wife at this Clause 4 of Chapter-III where you have home. He can practise all kinds of reaction- listed people who are convicted for offences ary or obscurantist social and religious prac- under variolJs Acts, Getting conviction is not tices, he won't come under all this. Why are joke in this country as the Government you talking about secularism and af! kinds of knows. But anyway you have not mentioned things? (Interruptions) the Prevention of Corruption Act. You have not mentioned the Official Secrecy Act. Why SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK (Panaji): people who have committed offence under 'Two years' is included here. sUCh Acts, let us say they have been convicted, even they have not been excfuded. SHRllNDRAJfT GUPTA: Don't show They have been allowed to stand. Why have me this letter of the law, I am talking about you omitted that? things which should be implemented in prac- 35 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 R9pI8Ssntation 36 Second Amdt) BIll & of People (Amdt) Bill

[Sh. Indrajit Gupta] Table of the House being made the propel1'J of the House and of the public. That should tice on the ground, whether you are capable be done and anybody who is found guilty of of doing it or not We have passed so many making a false statement of assets will have good Acts in this House about so many to be severely punished. If you want to things. Are they implemented? Child labour, cleans the democratic life of this country. for example, are we able to implement? We then kindly take it seriously_ cannot implement it. There are so many things like dowry. Dowry is made a legal Don't look so glum. Why are you looking offence. Are we able to stop dowry? So so glum? many things are there like that. That is why I am saying this. Finally, I would say one THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE thing, Sir. I suggest, when you come with MINISTRY OF LAW AND JUSTiCE (SHRI your next instalment of reforms ... H.R. BHARADWAJ): Mosi of your speech is coming from your side th~ugh prompting. SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS (Mav- (Interruptions). I was thinking whether you elikara): They will not come. are falling short of ideas today.

SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: That de- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: No, no. pends on the result of the election. How C9nsistent is the Opposition!

AN HON. MEMBER: Tamil Nadu? SHRIINDRAJrTGUPTA: So,Sir,lvery strongly feel about this matter of the declara- SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: About Tamil tion of assets. Nobody who has got a clear Nadu election I am having grave doubts as to conscience should be afraid of it. whether whether it is going to take place at all. (Inter- from here or any part of this House. ruptions). But I would suggest that every successful candidate, whether in the As- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Assets sembly or Parliament, once he is elected and and liabilities. when he takes his oath, before he takes his oath, he must make a statement of his as- SHRI INDRAJrT GUPTA: So. kindly sets and that statement of assets must be come forward with a more comprehensive laid on the Table of the House so that it Bill and do not bring in things which actually becomes public property_ The ether day will never be able to be implemented. when I mentioned this point, I found a large number of people on the Treasury Benches That is aU, I wanted to say. apparently supporting the idea. So, I suggest to them, 'Please take it seriously.' This SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAl (Chan- is one of the sources of much of the kind of digarh): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I had lis- doubts and allegations and things which tened very carefully to the speeches of the arise in the politica! life of this country. There various hon. Members who participated in is no use somebody saying, 'I have declared the debate yesterday and also our distin- my assets somewhere or other' o:>r • 'I will guished parliamentarian. Mr. 'ndrajit Gupta decfare them publicly'. No. When you are today. Most of the points have been covered. elected as a Member, your statement of your But one criticism which has been levelled by assets should be Iatd on the Table of the very senior leaders of the Opposition is that House~ that is, to the Speaker. That means, this Bill is only a window dressing; This Bill it is being given to the Speaker, put on the onty deals with periphery matters and one 37 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 38 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill han. Member went to the extent of saying years. Well, the Indian Majority Act says, a that it is acrucial joke. Well, I am surprised at person is adult at the age of 18 years. thiscriticis~.lcan understand the manner in which Mr. Indrajit Gupta has spoken. But to 12.00 hrs say that these two Bills are only a window dressing, is to ignore the very basis of these Opinions can always differ. It seems, Amending Bills. there was some opinion at that time that the right of vote should not be universal. The So far as the Constitution (Amendment) right of vote should be restricted. Right of Bill is concerned, now it is almost the view of vote should be given only to people having the House which is unanimous. The only some property and some education and the thing which Mr. Indrajit Gupta pointed out right of vote may not be given even to ladies. was as to who should get credit for doing this We all know even in enlightened countries, reform. Well, this question admits no other for quite some time, females were not al- answer except thE' one. The credit should go lowed the right to vote. But our forefathers to the ruling Party and its leader. A matter thought that we are going to have a which was pending for pretty long. on which Constitution which will permit universal adult people were having views on both sides, ,suffrage. Seeing the education and enlight- ultimately somebody has taken courage to enment among the people after 40 years of accept one view and that person who has independence, the !-aw Minister has said in accepted this view is the leader of the Con- his speech that according to the opinion of gress Party. The other day while he was the ruling party today, the youth of this coun- addressing the Members of the Congress try at the age of 18 is politically conscious to Parliamentary Party in Parliament, he de- take part in the formation of the Government. clared: "I have total faith in the youth of this Beyond this, I will not take the time of the country". Sir, we repeat this and since the House because, as I said once it is a unani- whole House is now accepting it, we need mous opinion, the whole House can take not now go on giving one argument after credit for it and the whole House can share another. According to my submission, this is the credit but the major part of the cake will a far-reaching reform. Some people have go to the ruling party. reservations even now. I heard a voice yesterday in this House where one han. Member Regarding the other Bill, I am surprised from our side said that this would politicalise that they say, it is window-dressing. Some the universities. People have different views very important aspects of electoral reforms in the matter but we have decided that the have been dealt with. voting age will be 18 years. The only thing which sometime was worrying me was, why There is one concept that election has our founding-fathers did notfix the age at 18. to be free and fair. Our experience has Well. the expression which was used in the shown-during the years that unless the elec- Constitution was "adult suffrage- and adult trol machinery is independent, we cannot suffrage we all know, ultimately was "univer- expect a free and fair eJection. There is sal adult suffrage". No quatification was put always a thinking that Election Commission as to who should be a voter. The only quali- cannot be provided with a machinery which fication was, he should be a citizen of the will run into lakhs and lakhs because we all country and he should be an adult. Now, the know that at the time of etedion, lakhs of question arose, who is an adult. Well, ac- Govemment servants are required to per- cording to our founding-fathers-they form election duties. AcQgrding to my sub- thought-a person is adult at the age of 21 mission. the Government has found a very 39 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Rsp.f8sentation 40 Second Arndt.) BiN & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. Jagan Nath KaushaO a candidate or his agent or by other person ... • So, once booth capturing has taken salutary method and the method is that place, it is a corrupt practice. Who wi" suffer during that period, the entire staff-it may the consequence? It is the candidate in belong to the State or to the Police or to the whose constituency booth capturing has Centre-will be deemed to be on deputation taken place and according to me, this is a with the Election Commission. very very salutary provision which has been made now. It is .J direct blow to the muscle No better method could be found to power. make the machinery absolutely free of any local or extraneous influence. Election Yesterday, oneot my hon. friends, most Commission WG all know, is an independent probably, Ms Mamata Banerjee said that body. We can go on saying whether it is some States are very famous for booth independent or it should be more independ- capturing and rigging and she said that ent and it should have more personnel etc special provision should be made for those and I will deal with that a little later. States. She has mentioned one or two States. I mean no disrespect to any of the But one point, according to me, is of far- States. But I would like to mention only one reaching importance. The purpose of the Bill instance. When I went to Bihar as a Gover- has been achieved that the entire machin- nor, for the first time, I learn of booth captur- ery, the entire electoral machinery, shall be ing. On our side, booth capturing was under the control and discipline of the Elec- unknown ... (/nterruptions) It was unknown. I tion Commission and it will be open to the must admire the courage of one Mini&ter. Election Commission to take action against One Minister of the Janata Government, on them. the Floor of the Assembly, had the courage to say: "Yes, we keep goondas. The only SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY: What about difference is I am confessing; others will not the media? confess ... " This is what he said. He further said that nobody could win t"e el8<.1ion un- SHAI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: My less thiS is done. So, as I said earlier, for the learned friend wm try to argue on a point first time Ileal nt that some such thing is also which is not at issue! The point at issue is know because on our side, booth capturing how can you fight with this provision. The is not known to us. provision has been made for freeing the electoral machinery from local influence and PROF. MADHU DANOAVATE (Ra- local Government. According to me, it is a japur): Is he the same one who crossed over vary important and far-reaching change. to the Congress and became Chief Minister. ( Interruptions) Another far-reaching change is the capturing of booth and rigging has been SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: No, he made an offence and a corrupt practice. is not...(lntsrruptions) That is why Ms Ma- mata Banerjee said that some States must One point of the criticism which has be clubbed on one side. She did mention always been raised is that the muscle power Haryana. Now, the other thing which I am should be dealt with. According to me, it is a bringing to your notice is this: I am today great blow to the muscle power. The provi- representing the constituency of Chand i- sion which makes booth~uring a corrupt garh. Booth capturing is totally unknown in practice reads Ike this: -sooth capturing by Chandigarh. We just do not know about that. 41 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 42 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

But we do know that in some constituency, isations from the electoral process in booth capturing does take place and all of us the interest of the country's unity and are unhappy. All of us are trying to say that integrity and in defence of nation's we ara not doing anything in that direction. aspirations ... Again, I would like to say that a decisive step has been taken and booth capturing has The provision which has been made, I been made as an offence as well as a corrupt am quite sure, is because of this Resolution. practice. This is the second important thing But is the provision effective? H it is not which has been done. effective, it is not too Ime even now to make the provision effective because according to The third important thing which accord- me, again, this is one of the most salutry ing to me is of great importance is registra- electoral reforms which could be thought of. tion of political parties. Shri Indrajit Gupta has his doubts as to how this will be effec- The other part of the Resolution says: tively given effect to. But, according to my reading, again a very salutary provision has "The Indian National Congress has been added that a political party which does always upheld secularism which we not believe either in socialism or which does consider as the basis of the Indian not believe in the sovereignty and integrity of polity and hallowed characteristic of the country will not be allowed to be regis- the Indian society through the ages. tered as a political party by the Election The emergence of communal forces Commission. Well, I am sharing some which regret ably has become more doubts of Shri Indrajit Gupta that by merely pronounced due to various causes in declaring that I believe in secula:-ism and I recent years threatens the basis of our believe in the unity and integrity of the coun- society. H is preposterous that such try, shall we be able to achieve the result forces should be allowed to take ad- which we want to achieve? On that matter, I vantage of the country's electoral am trying to agree with my learned col- process for this very destl uctive pur- league. But, otherwise, I would like to read pose. In the view of AICC, it is high time the Alee Resolution and its terms and I that communal bodies are excluded would like the han. Law Minister to tell me from the benefits of electoral process one thing. Have we, by this provision. ieally in an effective way. The AICe recom- given effect to the two parts of the Resolution mends this view to the Union Govern- which was passed by the AleC? One part ment for early action.· said: Again, , would request the Law Minister "The unity and integrity of the country and the drafters of the Bill to see whether the are absolutely sacrosant and invio- desire, whether the mandate of the AICC, lable. Every citizen is duty bound to has been achieved by the clause by the defend and protect them. The emer- manner in which it has been drafted. Other- gence of secessionist forces, organi- wise, the purpose is obvious. In the Bill itseH sed as political parties is thus anti- you have added a proviso and the proviso thetic to the basic tenets of the nation reads like this: and pose a danger which needs to be met squarely and effectively. The "Provided that no association or body AleC therefore urges the Union Gov- shall be registered as a political party ernment to devise immediate steps to under this sub-section unless the debar secessionist parties and organ- memorandum or rules or regulations 43 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 44 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. Jagan Nath Kaushaij striking at the very root of communalism and divisive forces by bringing this salutary proof such association or body conform to vision and to say that we are only at the the provision of sub-section 5.· periphery, I am not going to agree. It is not the periphery at all. It is ona of the basic But if it is confined to the declaration reqUirements of the electoral process today alone then I am afraid our purpose will not be that such political parties are not allowed to served because we now knoVi that people enter the arena. According to me, therefore, make a number of declarations and they it is a very salutary provision. One salutary don't live up to them. You have to make 115 provision was that the electoral machinery provision foolproof. You have to say, the has been made independent of :111 local party which is communal--we know what a influences. The second important provision communal party is. If even today we don't was booth capturing and rigging have been know what !s a communal party, then it is our made into an offence and corrupt practiCE:'. misfortune. Please make it foolproof by The third was political parties which do not saying, any party which is communal shall have any faith in the integrity or unity of the not be registered as a party entitled to fight." country or who do not have any faith in secularism of the country shall not be al- SHRt SOMNATH CHATTERJEE lowed to fight election because we have (Bolpur): What is the effect of non-registra- proclaiming, each one of us, and on that tion? matter nobody is disagreeing that the very foundation of this country is secularism. The SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAl: They moment secularism vanishes from this will not be allowed to fight. country, the country will not survive, democracy will not survive, the country as a whole SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: shall not survive. Where is it written? My learned friend Mr. Indrajit Gupta SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAl: It is says he will be very happy if everybody is there. H it is not there, I will request the asked to subscribe to socialism. He says, he drafters and the law Minister to add this will be very happy. provision because I am quite sure that no political party unless rEllgistered shall be al- SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: I don't want lowed to contest the election. (Interruptions) Mr. Sirla to slJbscribe.

SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (8ankura): SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: Not That proviso is not there. that you don't want it; you say, he will not subscribe. SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAl: My learned friends, we have to study the entire SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: That will be gamut of electoral Jaw to come to a conclu- the end of socialism itself. sion one way or the other. But I am in agreement with Mr. Somnath Chatterjee, if SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: What he has seen the whole of it, then I request the ! say is this. Once we have accepted and Government. I am one with Mr. Indrajit added the word socialism to the Preamble of Gupta when he says: "Please see that Jaw the Constitution-the Constitution as orgi- which you pass is implemented .. This is the nally drafted did not contain the word social- fundamental law we are passing. We are ism; but now about 15 years have passed 45 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 46 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill since it was added during the time when Mrs. We had a party here, again I must remind Indira Gandhi was at the helm of affairs- you, of which the leader at that time was my now to say that we don't want people to distinguished friend, Mr. Ranga. subscribe to socialism--with great respect to my Hon. colleague-is striking at the very PROF. N.G. RANGA (Guntur): My basic structure of the Constitution. friends whc came from Assam was making this allegation. There are different kinds of SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: V/hat will socialism-Gulid socialism, State socialism happen to the capitalists? and the Communist socialism also. I believed in agrarian socialism; I believe in it ShR! JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: even now. At that time neither Rajaji nor Whether Wf3 are living upto it or not is not the anybody else took any exception te, it. Why point. do you make that allegation now?

You are trying to say, why are we doing PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Prof this. Of cour.,e, we are doing this, we are Ranga, after your observations I went back striving for doing this, we want to achieve and checked the constitution of Swatantra socialism. Can anybody deny this? May I Party. There is no reference to socialism remind you about the speech of Pa:1dit even in an inairect manner. Jawaharlal Nehru that he gave during the freedom struggle days? He had said that if PROF. N.G. RANGA: There is no refer- after independence India is not going to be ence to capitalism either. That shows you socialist, I don't want independence. are only a professor. Jawah3rlal was so much wedded to socialism. I know Mr. Indrajit Gupta was talking PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I was sarcastically; otherwise he believes fighting the Swatantra Party at that time. absolutely in socialism. But on the ()ther hand, he says, it only befits him if he takes ot PROF. N.G. RANGA: You never roseto socialism and it does not befit us if we talk of the status of an Acharya. socialism. I am afraid, Mr. Gupta, I am not going to accept this criticism. We are respon- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: There sible for adding the word socialism in the is always a reference to private property and Preamble of the Constitution. a free enterprise. Read your constitution.

These are according to me the basics of PROF. N.G. RANGA: You have not the reforms which we have made. But seme understood the socialism then. freinds have the temerity to say that we are only window dressing. I don't know what is PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, the use of this criticism. The cirticism should aftel 'eaving Swatantra Party. he has given be valid. up the manifesto with retrospective effect! What can I do? SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: You are a PROF. N.G. RANGA: At that time, you distinguished lawyer. The point I was mak- were one of my students in Bombay. ing was, suppose there are some people who say and do not hide the fact that they PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: At that don't approve of socialism and they want a time, he had not joined the Swatantra Party. capitalist system. Do you want them by law He was a Congressm an. He left the Con- to be excluded from the election process? gress and joined the Swatantra Party. 47 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 48 Second Amdt.) BiD & of People (Amdt.) Bin

PROF. N.G. RANGA: We fought the provisions of the Constitution including against the Congress move towards Indrajit the Preamble, have we got a right to say that Gupta and collectivism of agriculture. I have we will not allow you to participate in the won in the end. Pandit Nehru had to yield and electoral process. This is the point to which we achieved both of us together a consen- we ~ant a reply. I am in favour of socialism. ~us to protect the peasants. But by that are we creating a situation in which instead of allowing them to participate PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Voudid in the democratic process, we will allow them not win Jawaharlal; Jawaharlal won you. to go to the streets and destroy or try to destroy the democratic process? . [ Translation] A reply to that is r~quired here. SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI (Mandsaur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, now you accept SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: This that 21 year old people should come here. question, which Mr. Dinesh Goswami has You understand this thing now. raised has been engaging the attention of the nation for quite some time. The matter [English] went to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court in the late3t decision-which all SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: I am friends practising law know; Keshavanand thankful to the Hon. Members who had inter- Bharati's case-they have said, Parliament vened. They have made the discussion very has no right to change the basic structure of lively. They have made the dicussion mean- the Constitution. The earlier view was to the ingful also. contrary. But even in the judgement that have not been able to define what is the I repeat, till the word socialism was not basic structure of the Constitution. They entered in the Preamble of the Constitution have only tried to give some illustration. The there could be an argument. But now the funniest part of that judgement is; 14 judges Constitution has accepted that this is !he were a party to that judgement, a number of society we want to bring about. Nobody can judgements were written-about seven or now quarrel with that proposition. eight-and ultimately the Chief Justice Sikhri could not find the majority view. Then, SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI (Guwahati): the Chief Justice Sikhri asked the judges as Sir, I raised this point yesterday and I would to what shall he say and which is the majority like a clarification. view. He said, according to him this is the majority view. He sent it back to the judges to We have not accepted the concept of agree at least this much. It is again a matter basic structure. The stand of the Congress of record. Only eight judges agreed that this Party and my stand has been a'i along that is the majority view. Others did not even no generation has a right to bind the future agree whether this is the majority view or not. generation. The only limitation is that, through Constitutional procedure of Article So far as Keshavanand Bharati's case 368 we have a right to amend all parts of the is concerned, Government has moved the Constitution including the Preamble. There- Supreme Court itself for reconsidering fore the point I was making and to which I this ... (/nt9rruptions) .. .I am in agreement hope Mr. Kaushal will reply is that if a political with what Mr. Goswami says that the Parlia- party says that through the Constitutional ment has the right to amend the Constitution. procedure of Article 368 we want to change But to try to put fetters on the right of Parlia- 49 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Repr9S9ntation 50 Second Amdt.} Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill ment in the garb of basic structure is not want this to be a hollow provision. You must acceptable to us. But so long as Keshava- make that provision effective. I have also my nand f;3harati'scase is holding the fields, that doubts as Mr. Indrajit Gupta had that this is that law. We are asking for Keshavanand clause will not be able to achieve the real Bharati's judgement to be revised. There is purpose. It has to be specifically stated. And a review petition pending in the Supreme who is going to be given that power? It is the Election Commission. Power is not taken by Court. Therefore the point which I was the Government. Power is being given to the making was, because I s.hould not be de- Election Commission wtJo from all angles is railed from the point which I was making, ... a wholly independent body. Now the Elec- tion Commission must decide 'vhether this SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: You are party is a communal party and once it is supporting me! decided that it is a communal party the Election Commission should thrc.w it out. SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: On all good matters we should support each other Therefore, my submission is please Where is the problem? I want you to support apply your full mind on this matter otherwise the BiI! which we have brought. the very purpcse of the Resolutions of the Alec- will be defeated.

SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: It is not a SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN good matter; that is why we are not support- (Barmer): What is the definition of commu- ing. On all good matters we support. nal party? You must define it.

SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: DI- SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAL: I think NESH, according to me, is a very reasonable by now it is ciear to everybody what is a person but I am surprised that on tho basic communal party. two, three or four things which I have mentioned there should be any difference. There The other thing which I want to bring to cannot possibly be any difference on the the notice of Shri Indrajit Gupta is this. h is Matters to which I have already made a the section which has been amended by reference adding a number of offences. A number of offences have been mentioned and very serious offences have been mentioned Sir, I was on this matter whether ~l -:rty there like prorTloting enmity between dfffer- whichdo~s not subscribe to one of the Id, .. :5 ent groups on grounds of religion, race, etc., of the Constitution - that ideal is we will offence of bribery, off~nces relating to rape, achieve socialism--should permitted to protection of civil rights which provides for contest elections. On that matter, accord1ng punishment forthe preachn '] .:3r1d practice of to me, unless the Constitution itself is untouchab;lrty. Then Sec~ion 11 (importing changed every party must not only adhere to or exporting of prohibit,~; goods) rt the the Constitution but also that party should Customs Act, the Foreign Exchange (Regu· not be allowed to contest the eiections be- lation) Act, the Narcotic Drugs and Psy- cause that party does not believe in the chotropic Substances Act, etc. Tha provi- Constitution. This is. as I said, a very basic sion is that pEK.'ple convicted of sl..lch of- reform which we are making. I am puttiny it fences shall ba disqualified for a ceriod of six again to the Law Minister and through the years from the date of such conviction. Law Minister to the drafters of the Bill that if There it is not mentioneo vvhether they this provision is not effective enough to should be punished Wltl, !>ix months, one or achieve our purpose as envisaged in the 1M) years. Serious offences have been Resolutions of the AICC then please make mentioned. The moment conviction comes this provISion effective because we do not disqualification should follow automatically. 51 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 52 Second Amdt.) Bill j of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. Jagan Nath Kaushal] ishment. Now this can be examined. But the provision, as has been broug"t forward to- Then there are four ot:"lfi categories of day, is again a salutary provision because offences which have bee.l ,"<':(. ,tioned where the l"lain provision is that the moment a they say': prevention of hoar\. mg orprofneo: person :s convicted under FERA, the mo- ing, adulteration of f00d or dt·ugs, Dowry m!?nt a person is convicted under Narcotic Prohibition Act arid Commission of Sati t".c Drugs and Other Substances Act, the dis- Thera it has been added 'and ~entenced to qualification follows. The point I am making imprisonment for not less than six months is this. These are not peripheral changes. shall be disqualified'. To say that this is a whitewashing electoral reform is highly misleading and -I shouldn't SHRI SA TYENDRA NARAYAN SINHA use that expression- a 'mischievous' (A'JrangabAd): I just wanted you to explain propaganda. It is not a whitewashing elec- to us. Under the Customs Act or FERA, toral reform. The electoral reforms, which there is no mention or indication of the quan- have dealt with substantial matters, have tum of sentence a person shoul<.J undergo been brought forward. before he is disqualified. If he is fined, will he be disqualif.Eld? Now, two matters, which were dealt with by the Working Committee as well as by the SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAl: Yes. AICC, have not been dealt with in this. yes. Those matters were: number one, non-- serious candidates. Well, the Law Minister SHRI ;iATYENDRA NARAYAN in his speech has given tow-4hree reasons. SINHA: That is very wide. Bu! we cannot forget onE' thing. The::;e non-.'Serious candidates are really creating SHRI JAGAN NATH KAUSHAl: That is a problem. And I borrow the expression another matter whether we agreg with this which has been used by my friend: They are provision or not. But the pro\lision is a nuisallce. There were 39 non-serious abso!lltely unequivocal. The provision is, candidates in a small c.onstituency like the rPoment there is a co(1viction for the Chandigarh. In some constituencies, there offences which ure mentioned in (a). the were 78 non--serious candidates. In soms disqualification follows. cases, there were 308. Viell, Mr. Law Minis- ter, I would request you to e)(amine this :-.Jaw my hend, Mr. Gupta says: Wt'ly matter also because you' c 'Ie said that this should there De a distinction? In soma is not your final instalment, all these things cases, yol.! '3ay, he should be punished for cannot be dealt with in one go. So, ti"ic; not iess than six mO:1ths. In other cases, you matter should be borne in mind. say. he ~hould net be punished for less than two years Then, this rnatter does require a The other matter which again has been sericus consideration at the hands of the referred to by ali the learned speakers on the Government. My own feeling is that tile other side is, how t~ reduce the expenses. should have no soft corner for a criminal. This i'3 absolutely a different matter whether Once a person has been convictad, then he the party spends or my friend spends or I should be at least debarred for six years. We spend. But the expenses are mounting should have no soft corner for a criminal. , every day. Can't we think at least of some am in agreeme.,t with Mr. Gupta. This dis- items which, according to me, are wholly tinction is being created. I don't know what useless and meant only for the purpose of is the rationale behind it except that the raising expensas. Can't we abolish the war original scheme of the Representation of the on posters and war on flags? The moment People Act was -that the person should not posters appear from the other side, my be debarred for all times to come unless workers come running to me and say: You there has been a serious imposition of pun- must also have posters. The moment flags 53 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 54 Second Amdt.) Bill & of Peopl8 (Amdt.) Bill are appearing, people come to me and I also SHRI P. KOLANDAIVElU: With regard succumb to it. Then, the rallies. One party to electoral reforms, Shri S.L. Shakdher, the is holding a ratly. The other party must have then Chief Election Commissioner, had 200 tr~ctor~ in 1hat rally. Can't we think of given some ideas. He had recommended abolishing at least these wholly useless the partial State funding of elections and manifestations of power? Power will be accounting of the private sector donations. tested at the ballot. V-Ihy are we trying to Actually, even new complete arrangemer.ts demonstrate our power otherwise? for the po!ls are being made by the Govern- ment. For makhg arrangements for polls. counting etc., nearly about Rs. 100 crores These matters, axording to me, de are being spent. Hthere is partial funding of need serious consideration, but on the the elections by the State, we can ask the whole, I must congratulate the Government candidates also to account for the money and the party for bringing this much :1eeded being spent by them on elections. That Bill and I whole-heartedly support it. would be a novel idea and I hope our Law Minister will come forward with a suitable SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU (Gobici)etci- amendment and with suitable electoral re- palayam): My Deputy -Speaker, Sir, we forms afterwards. welcome this amendment of Article 326 of the Constitution regarding reducing the vot· Regarding use of electronic machine, ing age from 21 to 18 years. It is a welcome we welcome it. Even thIS our late lamE'nted measure, but it ought to have been done leader, Shri M.G. Ramachandran wanted to much earlier Even then, we welcome it now. use in the Panchayat electiol1s. Actually this W3S used in one of the constituencies in By this amendme"lt, a large chunk of Tamil Nadu, but because of the failure etc., youth would be included in the electoral rolls. We werE' unable to use it for other constitu- By this near:y forty-sevEln million youths encies. will acquire voting rights. The other point is issu~ of identity cards In fact, we have already done it in Tamil to voters. I wou:d suggest that the identity Nadu for elec.~ions to local bodies, Pall- card system mu~t be a multipurpc~e one so chayat ejections and in 1982 itsel1, we re- that it 5erves the purpo3e for each and duced the voting 3ge to 18 years. Our late everything. lamented Chief M;nister, Shri M.G. Rama- chandrar. had don€' it; at that time ! was Late Shri JayaP' akasll Nararan and holdir.g the portfolio of local administration; I Jus!ice Tarkundl:? hav~ al£o sugges1ed was incharge of Panct,ayat raj, so I had done thes& electoral retorms as early as 1970 and it in 1982. However, as I said, it is a welcom~ the Stat& funding of elections, I have to say measure that the Government of Indie have that it is not a co~tly aifair. Most of the come forward to redu<.:e the voting age from arr.angements for the polling at e being done 21 to 18 years. by the Government only. We have to make arrangements for the se~jng up of the polling 8!.Jt, I want to ask one question to our booths, deployment of the personnel, count- Law Minister. \Ve have fixed the marriage ing of votes, running ofthe Election Commis- age at 1 9 years for the ladies and 21 years sion and for all these t"lngs we spend more for the males. Are we going to reduce the than hundred crores at rupees. So, State marriage age also for males from 21 to 18 funding is automatically there so that we ca., years? Has the Law Ministry and idea of have free ilnd fair elections. bringing a new Bill for this also? Sir. we have ~ plan, a programme for PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: These five years. We have a Budget of about As. are two different activities. 1,80,000 crores which we (".81"1 spend on it. 55 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 Representation 56 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. P. Kolanda~lu] and even in other Bills also we are not giving equal opportunity to the ladies. So, some And if we spend just about Rs. 200 cmrss on reservation must be there for the women. the elections, then it is just like the pea nut. That is what I would like to suggest to the Therefore, I suggest that the system of State Law Minister. funding should be invoked and the Govern- ment must come forward with this system. As far as media is concerned, nowadays the Doordarshan and the All India We know fully well that the money alone Radio are being misused and equal opportu- cannot win elections. I think almost all +,e nity is not being given to all the parties. I parties think thatthe votes can be purcha' ~ would suggest that equal opportunity should by money. Sir, as far as I am ooncerne ,I be given to all the parties according to their know fully well that it is not so. H this be 0, status. Sir, I have also represented this then many of the industrialists who oontest matter to the Minister of Parliamentary Af- from so many constituencies would have fairs who is also the Minister of Information won the elections. I find that they were and Broadcasting. Our party is having defeated by other people. So, money is not mannoth rallies and a number of pubiic the criterion for wining the elections. meetings are taking place. In large numbers the crowd is corning to attend these meet- The phenomenon of rigging and booth ings. But no opportunity is given to our party capturing was not known to the people of for the media coverage. I would request the Tamil Nadu. But in the ensuing elections, I Hon. Prime Minister and the Minister oon- am afraid such a system may be invoked just eerned to give equal opportunity to all the like in U.P. , Bihar and the border areas of parties, as far as media is concerned. Let Bengal where poll rigging and booth captur- there be a coverage of all the political parties ing is prevalent. Sir, I would request that let on the Doordarshan and also on the All India the system of rigging and booth capturing Radio. not come to the State of Tamil Nadu. With regard to the Election Commis- At the time of elections, a large sum of sion, I feel tl1at it should be a multi-member foreign money comes to our country. Huge Commission. Now we are having only a one amO'Jnt of money is being flown tl.) various man Comrnission. Let it be a mufti-member parties. That has to be curbed, and banned. Commission as per Article 324 of the Government must come forward with some Constitution. The Parliament should make a meaSL.:res to ban this inflow of foreign money law with regard to the composition of the which is being used in the Election process. membership of the Election Commission. It should be an independent body. An inde- Wrth regard to the electoral reforms, we pendent secretariat for the Election have been consulted by the Law Minister Commission should also be corlstituted. and alsc by the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs. We had suggested so many reforms About registration of political parties, I but we find that you have brought only one or have already given an amendment. The two reforms in the Bill. You should bring a former Law Minister, Shri Jagan Nath more comprehensive Bill and you should Kaushal. has been stating that communal come forward with almost all the sugges- parties should not be allowed to participate tions that we have given to the Minister in the elections. I want to know what he co.,cemed. These suggestions are work- means by a 'communal party'. In India, we able and acceptable. This Reforms Bill is have a communal party and even by its very much below our expectations. name, it is a communal party. I am referring to the Indian Union Muslim u.ague. Does he There shculd be some re508rvation for refer to the Muslim Leaguawhen he refers to the women fok. In the Electoral Reforms Bill communaJ parties? 'want to Know whether 57 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAVANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) ReprBSBntation 58 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill the Government of India wants to ban the CRP man have been deployed in four dis- Indian Union Muslim League. tricts of Tamil Nadu-South Arcot, North Aroot, Dharmapuri Salem and Madras. Why Now" come to the aspect of disqualifica- should there be deployment of CRP men? tion of members. The scope of this clause During the time of our late lamented Chief must be wide enough to include so many Minister, there was a similar agitation by offences which are found in the Indian Penal Vanniyars in Tamil Nadu. At that time, we Code. But there is no mention in the Bill were able to tackle the problem with the help about misappropriation of funds and there is of the police. Why have they now deployed no mention of offences under Sections 406, the CRP men in different areas of T ami! 407. 408.409. and 420 for cheating. I feel Nadu? It has been reported in the press also that offences listed under all these sections that they will remain there till the polls are of the Indian Penal Code should also be over. What does it mean? They want to hold included in the Bill. the elections with the help of the military. Then, how can we expect a free and fair SHAt G.M. BANATWALLA: The hone election? Is it a free and fair election? I member should know that the Indian Union would request the hone Prime Minister and Muslim league is not a communal organisa- also the law Ministry to immediately with- tion according to any defiAition of the com- draw the CRP men. It is only a handful of munal organisations. persons who are doing this. Vanniyars' agitation is not newto Tamil Nadu. We know SHAt P. KOLANDAIVELU: Very re- very well who are fill Vanniyars and who are cently. just about two days back, the Election all backing the Vanniyars and how they are Commission has announced the date for the agitating. You immediately withdraw the Assembly Elections in Tamil Nadu. I want to CRPF which have been deployed in orderto know why the Central Government is keep- have a free and 4air election. I hope, the ing mum with regard to elections to the lok Prime Minister will come forward in having a Sabha seats in Tamil Nadu which are vacant free and fair election in Tamil Nadu. Of for more than a year. Actually, elections to course, our Prime Minister had visited Tamil these lok Sabha seats ought to have been Nadu Six times during the last three or four held within six months. As regards the seats months. We welcome it. At the same time, that are vacant now. one belonged to Shri don't misuse the funds of the Government. A.G. Subbaraman who hailed from Madurai. The public money should not be misused in He is dead now and election has not been any way. held for the last one year in this constituency. When you have announced the date for ( Interruptions) Assembly elections, I wonder why elections are not held for the Lok Sabha seats which MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is it some- are vacant for a iong time. Are they afraid of thing relevant to the subject? You speak on the polls? They must come forward and hold Electoral Reforms. elections for Lok Sabha seats also along with the Assembly seats. Why are they ( Int9rruptions) afraid of the Lok Sabha elections? I do not know the reason behind it and I want to know SHRI VILAS MUTTEMWAR (Chimer) the reasons fmm the Government. Is it relevant to the subject?

Sir, the Vanniyar agitation is going on. During the last two days more than 12 buses ( Interruptions) have been burnt and more than a thousand people have been held. There is no safety for the people. Now. the CRP has been de- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I requestthe ployed in Tamil Nadu. More than a thousand Member to restrict himself to the subject. 59 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 60 Second Arndt) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

SHRI P. KOlANDAIVELU: I am saying regulating donations from companies, by that he is misusing. Let me tell you frankly. altering the Companies Act. We followed I want to express my feeling regarding Tamil that by bringing in a Bill to prevent the misuse Nadu. As far as Congress Party is con- of religious institutions. This is the fourth cerned, they can't come to power not only in step that we are taking during this Parlia- this century but even in the next century also. ment. (Interruptions) CInterruptions) AN HON. MEMBER: What about the THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRI RAJIV Lokpal Bill? (Interruptions) GANDHI): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I first like to thank all the Members that have MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Usten to him participated in the debate, for the serious- first. Why are you interrupting him. Listen to ness of the debate and many of the ideas him first; and then. afterwards you can say and suggestions that they have given. whatever you want.

Let me say at the outset that the legisla- ( Intenvptions) tion that this Government has brought. this legislation is a very major legislation and it is SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: This Bill ad- aimed at strengthening the roots of our dresses a number of areas. I won't go into all democracy. Our Indian democracy is the details. The Law Minister and other unique in many ways. It is a unique experi- Members have covered those details. Bin ment which is of global interest. It is the first there are some areas that I would like to time that a diverse society, with diverse touch. One of the most significant areas that cultures, with diverse languages, ethnically this Bill goes into, is to preserve secularism different. different regions, with different re- in our country. ligions and different castes had been brought under one democratic system. In a It is important to spend a minute on why sense it is the microcosm of the world as a secularism is important. And it is important demonstration to the world that democracy for us to understand what we mean by secu- is possible amongst a diverse society such larism. because there are some amongst us as ours which can ba a model for an interna- who, under the label of secularism, want to tional democracy, for people to live together destroy religion. Our secularism is not anti- on the globe. religion. nor is it for destroying religion. We must be very clear about that. And I would During these forty years. the experi- like to say categorically that anybody who ment of Indian democracy has been ex- thinks that secularism means the destruc- tremely successful, perhaps, the most suc- tion of religion or an antireligion act is doing cessful in any developing country. And I a disfavour to the word secularism, is doing would fike to thank and congratulate the a disfavour to our nation; and some who people of India for the success of this experi- believe in that, should revise their thinking, ment. because it is dangerous for our country.

During these forty years, we have learnt Secularism is essential because, in a a number of things and some weak areas in pluralistic society such as ours, it is essential our system have become noticeable and it is to separate politics and Government from necessary to correct these areas. This Bill, religion. If we do not do so, we run the for the first time in forty years, addresses gravest risk of dIsintegrating the country and itself to major issues relating to Electoral destroying our nation. Perhaps the effect will Reforms. We started the process. This be much beyond just the effect that it will Government started the process of bringing have on the nation. We will lose the nation; about electoral reforms, by first bringing the but the world will lose an experiment in Anti-Oefaction Bill. We followed that for building one humanity. So, the repercus- 61 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 62 Second Arndt.} Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

sions are much greater than even those recognised as a political party. affecting our nation. The path that Gandhi Ji has put us on to, that Pandit Ji has put us on SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: It is not to, that I ndl ra Ji took us on, has much greater already there, Sir? goals than just those limited by our boundaries; and we must not limit our vision by our SHRt RAJJV GANDHI: Not in the way boundaries. Our vision must go bayonet So, we have brought it in. And here I would like secularism is one key-word. and it is es- to thank two members, because we have sential that secularism is brought in, is actually covered this area. But, perhaps, it helped to be brought in. in every area of our was not covered as strongly and positively activities. Elections, the electoral process is as it should have been covered. one such very important area. Prof. Dandavate from the opposition We took the first step, like I said, when and Mr. Haroobhai Mehta from our side have we brought in, we brought the Bill f9f pre- recommended an amendment to bring in the venting the misuse of religious institutions. full provision of the misuse of Religious Insti- In this Bill, by requiring the political parties tutions Bill. We thought that it was already submit themselves to the Constitution of included, but, perhaps, it was a little soft; it India, we are pushing them further towards was covered but not completely. I have the secular goal; and I feel here it is important asked the Law Minister to bring in a Govern- for me to say that when we push people ment amendment because there are some towards secularism-and I am saying "push technical problem~ in the wording of the two people towards·, and not "force people to- proposals. We will bring in a Government wards". because when we start forcing. then Amendment to cover this area and I would things snap; people take hard decisions. We like to thank both the members. must coax them and bring them into the mainstream, and that is what we are trying to PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: It is the do. We could have taken a very hard stand. same. Members have been sitting here. listening to some Members. I have gone through the SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: Slightly differ- proceedings ot the House. Some Members ent. We have a legislative Department to feel that much stronger action shoulG have look at it. They said they wanted some slight been brought in. This was considered by the differences. So, we said we will bring it. But, Cabinet. I am thanking you for reminding us about it.

13.00 hr•• Another very important aspect of the Bill is the protection that we have sought for the We went Into it in depth and, in balance, weaker section when it comes to vote. like we felt that it was better to tread softly along I said, our eledoral system, our democracy this path, because if we try t9 force we may has functioned very wall. But there are end up in a situation where we will isolate certain weak areas; and one of the weak large section of our population and deliber- areas is when the feudal elements prevent ately cause fissiparous tendencies to de- the weaker sections from going and voting, velop. We have taken the route of pulling the when the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled people into the mainstream and convincing Tribes, the minorities, when women are them that this is the right way to go. We prevented from getting to the polling booth, believe by making political parties submit by wllatever means. Sometimes they are themselves to the Constitution of India, we prevented from leaving their homes; some- are only strengthening our eler..Joral proc- times they are prevented from getting actu- ess, our democracy and our nation. And any ally to the booths by the feudal elements. party that is not willing to submit itself to the This is. of course. one of the reasons. By Constitution of India does not deserve to be making booth capturing a cognisable of- 63 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 Representation 64 Second Arndt) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

[Sh. Rajiv Gandhi] There has been another area where there have been some differences between fence and by making booth capturing a cor- what some parties have felt and what we rupt practice, we feel that the hands of the have felt and what we have brought in and weaker sections will really be strengthened that has been on the question of the multi-- in these reforms. We have also brought in a member election commission. We have full number of crimes, which, if committed, will faith in the Election Commissioner and we debar people from contesting an election. feel that anybody who wants a multi- We have looked specifically at crimes which member election commis$ion seems to are antt-social and which are demeaning to have Some doubts about the Election the dignity of a particular section of our Commissioner. We have no doubts about people. Again, it is the weaker section the integrity, independence of the Election against whom these crimes are comm itted Commissioner and going to a rl'ulti--mem- and again we protect the weaker sections by ber Election Commission, we feel. would bringing in these provisions. have showed that we doubt the integrity of the Election Commissioner in some way. One major step that we are taking is in We have no doubt about the integrity. reducing the voting age from 21 to 18. I have noted that certain section of the House does SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI(Guwahati): not seem to be very happy about Are you dOlJbting the wisdom of the founding this ... (Interruptions) fathers of the Constitution also?

SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: No. I am only RAO{Vijayawada)' It is we who pressed for doubting your motives. Having said that, let it. It is our suggestion. (Interruptions) me also say that there have been a number of occasions when the decision of the E:ec- SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: I would have tion Commissioner has been contentous. thought that the hon. members, if they ap- The Opposition has not agreed with many preciated this measure, would have also decisions. They have made issues. We thumped the table; but, they did not. So, I have not liked many decisions. We have assume that they are not for this measure. made issues. But the fact is that it has been But I will request t"em that in their greater fairly universal and we have found that the wisdom they will vote for this measure. Election Commissioner was tied down by the lack of powers he had. We could keep PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: You compla!ning. But because the system was were not present in the House; yesterday we as it was, he was not able to do even what he the Opposition Members gave a thumping wanted to d..:>. So, we have thought that support to 18 years of age for the voting. instead of going for a multi-member commission, like has been suggested by SHRI RAJIV GANDHI: Obviously, all certain parties, wa would instead strengthen the support they had for re~ucing the age got the hands of the Election Commissioner finished and dep4eted yesterday when they because we have full faith in him. And this thumped the table. Bm strengthens the hands of the Election Comm issioner in many ways and fer the first We have tull faith in the youth of India. time perhaJis the Election Com missioner will The youth of India have demonstrated their have the powers to deal with th.e task that wisdom, their maturity in Panchayat elec- has been given to him. tions, kxal body elections and we feel that they are now ready to participate fully in the One more question had come up on demoaatic process. This amendment will identity cards. When we discussed this in bring in almost 50 minion peopla into tha the Cabinet, we very clearly said, "Yes, there efectoral system. must be identity cards." And we have 65 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 66 Second Amdt.) BHI & of People (Amdt.) Bill cleared identity cards. We will have mutti- mind that we cannot buy the people of India, purpose--whatever they are -identity we cannot buy the electorate of India. The cards. There are some problems on how it electorate of India is much too independent will be handled administratively and what it and wise for that. will cost and how we will bear it, how we will deal with these two areas. But we will start Sir, the second point that was raised-- the process now. Because of the size of the I think it does need addressing- is, some country, the size of the electorate and the Members have felt that this Bill has not other complications. We cannot say that we addressed the core issues and addressed will complete the whole process before the only to the peripheral issues. Well, I feel next elections or in a time deadline. But I am some of these Members are suffering from very keen that the process is put into motion, what could best be called peripheral myopia. and put into motion fast and rapidly. In the They have been on the periphery too long. Initial stageo; we will have to learn in the They have been on the periphery for so long process of putting this through but we would that they are most at home on the periphery like to see that it gets through quickly. We and the one time that they came to the core, will overcome the difficulties and we will try they started gnawing at the core from all and have identity cards as SOOri as possible. sides and even from within. And it was the wisdom of our people which very quickly put Amongst the many points that have then back where they belong. on. the periph- been raised during this debate I would like to ery. Let me say Sir .... (lnte"uptions) refer to only two: The first is State funding. I Ths problem is not State funding or not. The PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: it hap- problem as I understand it is the question of pened with you In three the amount of money that is being used for States .... (Interruptions) elections, money power in elections. Let me say very clearly from experience, I am very SHRI RAJIVGANDHI: Do notfeelguitty clear that our people are much too clever about it. It is not personal.. .. (lnterruptions) and much too wise to be misled by money power. Never has money power been the I was not being personal Dandavateji, deciding factor in an election in this country. you do not have to feel bad .... (/nterruptions) This is my feeling. H some people feel that our electorate can be misled by money PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: This is power, I think they are totally wrong. It is only party. I have nothing against you personally. the politicians who sometimes feel that by spending more money they can do some- SHRI RAJ IV GANDHI: Let me say very thing. But our electorate is much too wise for clearty that this Bill is a very major Bill. It!s that. And anyway State funding in no way a major electoral reform. I would go to the changes the amount of money that is being extent of calling it historical and revolution- used. In fact it will only increase the amount ary and we have brought it in the Centenary of money that is out there for electoral use. tt Year of Panditji significantly. 11 will will not reduce raising money for elections in strengthen the roots of our democracy and it any way. So, I do not see State funding re-establishes the faith of the Congress in tackling the issue of the cost of elections in the youth of India and in the wisdom of the any way. Hit did, we would have brought it people of India. here. But as it does not, I do not see the need SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Mr. Prime for it. But, I do see a need for trying to reduce Minister, there has been a suggestion from the cost of elections. On that if the hone the opposition for an independent Secretar- Members have a positive suggestion, we will iat of the Election Commission like the Sec- definitely consider it. But nothing concrete retariat of the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha to has really come to us on that issue yet. Let give it full independence. What is your me once again say that I am very clear in my reaction to that suggestion? 67 ConstitIIIion (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 68 Sec:ond Arndt.) BHI & of People (Arndt.) BiD

SHRI RAJrv GANDHI: Tathe best of my Constitution in the name of electoral re- knowledge, it is fu1ly independent ... (Inter- forms, which has been described by our ruptions) Prime Minister just now as historic and revolutionary I do not think so. After 40 years of SHRr DINESH GOSWAMI: Please independence they had brought the elec- examine it. toral reforms ... (lnte"uptions) Please bring the ·House to order. MR. DEPUTY- SPEAKER: Shri Char- anjit Singh Walia SHAI SOMNATH OHATTERJEE: This is the democracy they are talking of .... ( Inter- PROF. MADHUOANDAVATE: Before ruptions) you call him. we had a very interesting inter- lude just now when Kaushalji was speaking MR. OEPUTY SPEAKER: Please do between him and me whether the Swantan- not disturb the Member who is speaking. tra party was socialist or anti- Those who are not interested, they may go socialist.. ... (/ntsrruptions) By way of clarifi- out. But please do not disturb the member cation. Sir r am just reading out one para- who is speaking. graph. This is the inaugural address of Prof. Ranga... (/ntenvptions) SHAI CHARANJIT SINGH WALIA The substance of the electoral reforms is By way of explanation ...{/ntemlptions) very important. And we have been taJking and discussing the electoral reforms for the MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: When he is past so many years. I think. it may not be not here. why are you mentioning window dressing as my colleague, Shri that?( Int9rruptions) Jagannath Kaushal. was saying. It is more an exercise played to the gallery. I was PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: It has saying that this is more of a playing to the nothing to do with him personally ... He said gallery ratherthan an act with a revolutionary that "I am opposed to the Congress bias or a historic act. The House has been brands ... ( Interruptions) extended on the plea that they are bringing Jot of electoral reforms and that a Bill is - MR. DEPUTY- SPEAKER: You can coming in the Parliament. Except one thing, send it in writing; we will see. that is, the reduction of voting age from twenty-one years to eighteen years, I do not ' PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: All think there is anything substantial in the Bill. right. when he comes I should be allowed to The reduction of voting age from twenty-one read his speech where he says that Con- to eighteen is a welcome step and we wel- gress brands of socialism are come it. Our Prime Minister was very correct rejected .... (/nt9"Uptions} in saying that they have confidence and faith in the youth of India. But how this faith and SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK (Panaji): confidence has been posed after a long This is not the issue ... time? It has been posed under the pressure of the Opposition. It was a demand from THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMEN- every corner of the country that the youth TARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF IN- must be brought into the political main- FORMATION AND BROADCASTING stream. that they are intelligent, that we (SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT): It is really wrong should- have faith in the youth and they and very unfair .... (/nterruptions) should be involved in the mainstream and the political system of the country. and that SHRI CHARANJIT SINGH WALIA pressure. brought ~.¥rth from all corners, by (Patiala): Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Sir. we are an parties. has pressurised the Government discussing the 62nd amendment to the to bring this legislation in this House. 69 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) HsprSS8ntation 70 Second Amdt.) Bill & of P80pIe (Arndt.) SRI

The second thing which is also a very sometimes act in a partisan manner. So, to much discussed point is that the money avoid all these things, a provision for a multi- power should not be allowed to play its dirty member Commission should be there. game in~he politics of India. This is the basic malady and this is the basic disease which is The hen. law Minister, while piloting the eating the very vital issue of our democracy. Bill, said that the delimitation of constituen· Our people have faith in democracy. They cies can take a lot 01 time. But may I ask one are conscious of their rights. They are con- thing? After the 1971 census. about 20 yaars scious of everything. Here I say what the have passed, and no delimitation of constitu- Prime Minister said that they cannot be encies has been done so far. During these purchased by money. But money is playing 20 years period, a lot of changes have taken a very big role in the election process. place. I would request the Government, People may not be bought by this money, through you, Sir. that the delimitation of they may not be influenced in their judge- constituencies should be done as early as ment of voting. but it is playing a vital role. possible and a more comprehensive Bill Businessmen and big business houses in- should be brought forward before this fluence the voters and the candidates. So, House, wherein the suggestions and the the election should be funded by the State. demands of the Opposition Members and The expenditure should be brought to the also other Members of the House, whether minimum possible limit and there must be they are from the ruling party side or other some ceiling on the expenditure of individu- parties, will be met. I would therefore request als as well as of the political parties. The the Government ,hat they should bring for- Government has failed on this vital issue. ward a Comprehensive Bill in this House They should have incorporated some provisions in this Bill so that the role of money SHRI BALWANT SINGH RAMOOW- could be curtailed to the minimum possible ALIA (Sangrur): Sir, I on behalf of my party level and the State could bear the expendi- fully support the idea that voting age will be ture of the candidates and of the parties, reduced from 21 years to 18 years. This whether they are recognised or not. opportunity would certainly prove good generally tothe youth of the country. Sir, with The third thing which I would like to bring the heavy heart I want to refer to one thing. to your notice, and through you t9 the notice Everyone who spoke here mentioned about of the House, is that the media-the Ooord- the idea of reducing the age. But I am sorry arshan and the All India Radio- should not to say that many Members gave an impres- be allowed to be misused by the ruling party sion that seeularism and socialism are the at any cost. There should be some restric- monopoly of those people. Sir, everybody tions and every political party should be whosoever represents this House, belong- given the best possible time. They should be ing to different parties, is no less in the treated equally so far as the use of Doord- practise of socialism and secularism. Sir, I arshan and All India Radio is concerned. want to refer to one thing. The Government while bringing forward this Bill has failed to The fourth suggestio'; I want to make is satisfy the people of this country. Now, how this. Sir, the Election Commission should be much money power can influence the elec- made more independent. For this the sys- tion results? Sir, the total expend~ure on an tem of multi-member Election Commission election by an individual as also by the should be there. A provision for this should parties is mounting from one election to have been brought in this very Bill so that a another. Something should have been done multi-member Election Commission could in this regard particularly in view of the pre- effectively and impartially conduct the elec- vailing poverty and poor resources of the tions in this country. We do not doubt the country. Sir, I also fail to understand why integrity of the Elaction Commission. It is there should be registration of parties. What now in charge of one person. But he may for is it required? Here the use of WOlds 71 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Repr9Sfmtation 72 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) BiB

[Sh. Balwant Singh Ramoowalia] they can do, nobody will contest or only that person will file the nomination who win be 'communal parties' representing certain re- approved by those terrorists. I am not afraid ligions, representing certain regions which of elections. But in the name of the better- are there to fulfil certain aspirations of certain ment of the country I urge upon the Govern- section of people, should not be construed ment, through you, to postpone the pan- as communal parties chayat elections till the Assembly elections are held. You must first hold electinns for the Sir, a few days earlier, a reference was Assembly or Parliament. Parliament elec- made about Mr. Barnala as to why he ap- tions aredue in November or December next peared before the high priests. I would year. We should not give an opportunity so humbly say with very deep respect to every that at the local self government level, at the one that reference should not be made to lower level some people representing cer- certain religious bodies which will create tain areas come in pewel'" or the are elected further bitterness in their minds or lead to by means of threat from the gun or any other misunderstanding. Mr. Barnala submitted reasons. his resignation to the Jathedars. After submitting the resignation he only told the Akal Sir. I also want to make it clear that Takt that' if there is anything wrong regard- delimitation of constituencies must be done ing my religious conduct, I am here. Sir, I after every 10 years. want to make it clear that ... 13.32 hrs. SHRI VIR SEN: (Khurja) Was he punished for his religious misconduct? [SHRIMATI BASAVARAJESWARI In the Chailj SHRI BALWANT SINGH RAMOOW- ALIA: Yes, Sir, in the end I want to say that in our society, we have some minorities.. Some- SHRI VIR SEN: What was the rlJiscon- thing should be done, Madam, for the Sikh duct? people who are about 80 lakhs in Punjab and 70 lakhs living outside Punjab. Seventy lakh SHRI BALWANT SINGH RAMOOW- sikhs living outside Punjab never get elected ALIA: For his religious misconduct. He sub- to Lok Sabha. Some reservation should be mitted the resignation to the party, first only made so that 3-4 Silk gentlemen are able to to the Ja&bedars. Now, there is a panchayat be elected to the Lok Sabha so that the election in Punjab. Sir, the Government is involvelllent of the community is total. here. Through you, I want to make it clear to the people of the country that holding pan- With these words, I thank you very chayat elections at this stage in Punjab will much. cause a great damage not only to that particular system, but to the democratic system SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO. also. I would humbly urge upon the Govern- Madam I thank you for giving me this oppor- ment to direct the Goverl')Or of Punjab not to tunity at least at this late hour to participate I hold the panchayat election. The terrorists in the discussion on these important Bills. have already sent messages. Panchayat is a small unit. It;s very difficult tor a panchayat First of all. , am glad that after persistent member or the Head of the Panchayat to and consistent demands the Government face the threat of terrorists and extremists. has agreed and has brought forward today This is not the right stage. By misusing their the Constitution (Amendment) Bill to reduca gun powsr, the terrorists will succeed in the age of voting from 21 to 18 Madam. I only convincing many people in many vi"ages; I have one apprehension in my mind vis a can say that if in more than 3000 vAl ages vis this amendment that is going to come in 73 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 74 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill the Con~titution. I shall be failing in my duty, came in this Bill. But on the contrary, the if I do not express that view to this hon. Prime Minister who has probably been too House. You all know that the Election much part of the core, really forgot what was Commission is an autonomous body, techni- the core of the entire subject all about. Sev- cally speaking at least. Bu! we also know eral basic issues have not been dealt with in how the Commission is acting, and the this Bill. The hon. law Minister had detailed manner in which pressures have been consultation, not with members of various brought about on thie Commission from political parties, but I am sure with several various angles. Therefore, I would like an other eminent jurists and eminent citizens of assurance from the hon law Minister. (Inter- this country and ultimately it is rather sad to ruptions) see that this pathetic Bill has come before this House. Mr. law Minister please lend your ears, I shall be honoured. let me have your ears. While speaking earlier, the han. Prime Minister said that this was only yet another THE MINISTER OF ENERGY (SHRI attempt to strengthen the roots Of democ- VASANT SATHE): But don't catch them. racy and that the first such Bill was the anti- Defection Bill. This rang a bell is my ears. SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO The Anti-Defection Bill was brought in this : I would be glad if the hon. law Minister House with great fanfare and thumping of could assure this House on his part that he desk which the Prime Minister missed today will do his best to see that under the pretext from us. That Bill was to see that a Member of including this age group in the voting list. does not defect or leave a party on whose it does not result in postponement of elec- symbol he was elected Madam, the irony is tions whether by-elections to the lok Sabha that today as I speak before you, I am being or elections that have to come in 1989. This treated as an unattached Member. That is is an apprehension which is shared by many why I have to speak at this late hour and at people outside this House. Therefore, I the fag-end of the debate. I am an unat- thought I should mention this during the tached Member. For what? For having cho- course of my speech. sen to stay on in the Party on whose symbol I was elected to the House. The Anti-defec- Madam, coming to the next Bill, i.e. tion Bill was tirought into the House and it Representation of the People (Amendment) you read the Statement of Objects and Bill, for a long time, it has been the demand Reasons, Madam Chairman, the contrary is not only of the political parties but it has been being done today. The han. Speaker, such the cry of the nation to bring about electoral an upright and impartial man like the reforms. In a democracy, public participation Speaker, no less a person than the Speaker, and public opinion is the life-blood of the has to treat me as an unattached Memberfor system. The Prime Minister, when he spoke not defecting. This was after the Anti-Defec- said that this was a major legislation which is tion Bill was brought into this House. On the aimed at strengthening robts of democracy. facade of a split, what is sanctifying is mass sea'e defection. The Prime Minister went ** But unfortunately, after going through to engineer defection. why" It was because the Bill, I find that it is mainly a cosmetic he did not have a proper person whom he exercise which is rather inadequate and could appoint as Chief Minister in a particular disappointing to many of us who are looking State in the country. That shows the bank- forward to the electoral reforms. The Prime ruptcy of the Congress-I Party. After having Minister mentioned that because many of of brought this Bill in this House, the Prime us had been in the peripheries, we propably Minister went .* to engineer detection. though that it was only peripheral issues that MR. CH~\RM~N : '{our t\me \s o'ler.

**Expunged as ordered by the chair. 75 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Repressntation 76 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt) Bill

SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO: The Anti defection Bill was referred to by the I wiD walk out of this House, if you do not Prime Minister. to strengthen the roots of allow me to speak. democracy. This was mentioned by Shri P.R. Das Munsi, the han. Minister from that MR. CHAIRMAN: Why? side and by the Prime Minister himself that the Anti-def&etion Bill was the first measure SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S DEO to strengthen the roots of democracy I have It is a very important Bill. my right to explain to the House how the roots of democracy have been strength- MR. CHAIRMAN : The time for you is ened. I have every apprehension as to what only five minutes. There are many more will come out of this Bill which has come Members to discuss. The discussion is to be before us today. Please listen to completed. me. (Interruptions) Don't defend the indefen- sible. SHRI H.K.L BHAGAT: You are not expected to speak like that. MR. CHAIRMAN: Don't interrupt him. Let him complete. (Interruptions) SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO: This is what has actually happened. Truth is SHR' V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO: bitter. I cannot speak when I am disturbed.

SHRI.H.K.L.BHAGAT : You cannot MR. CHAIRMAN: Dont interrupt him. prove what you consider truth. What is your Let him complete. If you interrupt him he will evidence? Nothing. You never have any take more time. evidence. (Interruptions) SHRI SHANKAR LAL (Pali) : I am on a SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO: point of order. We are having discussion on With what moral authority does your Prime the Constitution (Amendment) Bill and the Minister have to speak like that ? I never Representation of People Bill. Why are you defected from the party. discussing the Anti-Defection Bill which is not under discussion? He is only wasting the MR. CHAIRMAN: Try to be brief. Please time of the House. listen to me. There are four or five Members from your party who are supposed to partici- MR. CHAIRMAN: Members have a right pate. to mention here and there about other things also. There .is no point of order. Please SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. OEO: continue. If you do not allow me to speak, I will go . PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Kindly SHRI CHAIRMAN: I never said that you tell him that today the Prime Minister began can go. his speech with Anti-defection law.

SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. OEO: MR. CHAIRMAN: I have given my rul- I have been called here not as a party ing. You can mention it. Member. Please see your list. I am the office -bearer of the party. SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. OEO: Member after Member has said that the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I people of this country cannot be purchased wanted to speak for 15 minutes more. My upon. I am one with all of them. If that was time might be given to him. the case, if people could be bought over with money. many of us would not have been SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. OEO: here to participate in this debate. I do not 77 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 78 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

doubt the integrity of the people of this coun- ( Interruptions) try. It is not political parties only. It is they who deserve democracy. But, elections are also SHRI S. JAIPAl REDDY a P9Vchological warfare. It is not a question (Mahbubnagar): This is an impof'tanl aill. of just bribes or purchasing of votes. We had How can you divide time like this? demanded when we met the law Minister that there should be a ceiling on the items MR. CHAIRMAN: The time has been that are used for elections. We had de- restricted. What we have to do? I have been manded that there should be ban on cut- calling only Opposition party Members one- outs, on welcome gates and banners. Are by-one. He also wants to speak. I have to you prepared to do it? The Prime Minister accommodate so many Members. But Shri has just said that you cannot purchase the Deo cannot walk-out like this, when I have country. But nobody has given any concrete been allowing him some more time to speak. suggestions. Here are my suggestions. Shn D. B. Patil. My suggestion is that you ban the use of cut-outs and banners and don't allow any SHRI D.B. PATIL: (Kolaba): Madam political party to construct their own plat- Chairperson, there are two Bills which are forms for speaking. Let the Government here under discussion and one of them is for provide them. Everybody will address the amending the Constitution of India to reduce meeting from the same platform. Are you the voting age from 21 years to 18 years. I prepared to accept the suggestion? welcome this amendment. The Prime Minis- ter has just iiow said that he has full faith in MR. CHAIRMAN: No. You have to the youth of this country. I entirely agree with conclude. him. I must say that the youth of this country will be added as new electorates for the next SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO: elections. This will have a good impact upon I will walk out. This is a very basic question. the policies- economic as well as social of the Government. There is a big problem of MR. CHAIRMAN: I do not want you to unemployment facing our Government. walk out. But you cannot take the entire time Therefore, our new youth, who are going to of the House. be included in the voters list, will influence the economic policies of the Government SHRI V. KISHORE CHANDRA S. DEO: and from that point of view, I very much I am walking out. welcome this.

13.45 hrs The other Bill is about amending the Representation of People Act. I wilt say that it is anti-climax in the sense that the people Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. D90: then left of this country expected that some basic the House measures would be taken for the successful functioning of parliamentary Democracy in MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reddy, you this country. The success of Parliamentary please listen to me. There are are four or five Democracy in this country depends upon the Members from the Opposition -side to fair and free election Unless and until there speak. I am not calling any Member from the are free and fair elections, Parliamentary ruling party. I have been calling only the Democracy cannot succeed and survive. opposition party Members. We have to We do agree that the people of this country complete the discussion by 2'0 Clock or by cannot be bought. But, still we a,9reethat the another 1 0 minutes and then the Minister will money power plays a very vitFi' role in the reply. But I have given him 10 minutes. You elections and so also the muscle power. must know that. Also, the use of anti-social elements are on 79 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBE:R 15, 1988 Representation 80 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. D.B. Pati~ People expected that State funding would be provided for in this Bill. While a very large scale. Of course, there are opposing the State funding. even th~ Prime various provIsIOns regarding anti-social Minister has said that it will be in addition to elements contesting the elections. But, noth- the expenses that are being already ining is being said about for not taking advan- curred. We can control all these expenses if tage of them while elections are being con- we have a wia to control it and we are very tested. I cite one example from Maharashtra serious about it. Saying that it is not in a State. A list of Special Executive Magistrates position to control this thing means they do was prepared. It was published in the official not want to curtail the expenses. Gazette also. But, after that, the list had to be withdrawn because in that list names of The day before yesterday, there was a certain well-known anti-social elements news item in certain papers about a particu- were included. Therefore, the list was with- lar representative of a particular party visit- drawn. I am citing this to show that money ing a particular district in a particular State. power, muscle power and the help of anti- where the aspirant was asked: how much social elements are being taken on a very you are able to spend for your elections. The large scale while contesting the elections aspirant had just opened the bag which he and nothing is being done here so far as had brought with him and it contained takhs money powei is concerned. I think, you will of rupees. But that has not been contra- agree with me. dicted. If this is the fate in the country so far as our election expenses are concerned. The other point is that the money spent this is not going to help the democratic is much more than what is provided for an process in the country. We are having elec- individual candidate to spend. Shri Gadgil, toral reforms. But this is a sort of anti-climax while opposing the state funding of elections as I have earlier stated said that the average expenditure for parliamentary Constituency is Rs. six lakhs. But [ Translation] he has nothing to say about reducing that expenditure, to control that expenditure. SHRI SULTAN SALAHUDDIN OWAISI There must be some measures to control (Hyderabad): Madam Chairman, the Bil! this expenditure. We can limit the expendi- presented in this House is not comprehen- ture incurred on preparing posters, banners sIve enough and I want that some more and other things. All those details have to be points should be included in it. In India every worked·out. But, if you are not prepared. and citizen is entitled to vote and atthe same time if you have no wiU to bring about a change in we also know that the people not in lakhs but the expenditure. nothing can be done .. in crores are hVlng in huts which are not (Interruptions) Madam, I would like to spell numbered. With the result that their names out only some important points because the are not included in the voters list. In this time is very short. I am very well aware of it. connection, I want to cite the example of When we talk about Parliamentary Democ- Hyderabad and of my constituency in par- racy, I don't think the present Congress ticular. The Government of Andhra Pradesh Party has any moral authority to talk about is of the view that these huts are un- democracy and other things. Because elec- authorised and therefore. it is not possible to tions are not being held in that party itseH, number them. In the absence of numbering. what moral right has it got to ask the people the names of the people living in huts are not of this country to have faith in the parliamen- Included in the voters' list. I want to know as tary democracy. There is an adage: "Charity to why these citizens are being deprived of begins at home.· Likewise, faith in the demo- their rights to vote? It is because they do not cratic principles should being from the party own any house? If they do not own any itsetf which is not_the practice in the ruling house you should get houses constructed party. for them. After all why should they be de- 81 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 82 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill prived of their voting-right? The majority of communalism. It is possible to talk of secu- the people in this country are poor and to larism after watching what is being shown on deprive them of thEm funtjamental right a T. V. Whanever there is any in auguration, great injustice to them. I want that Govern- coconuts are broken and worship is dona mer:t should pay 3tt&ntion to these people on and therafore, how is it possibla to taik of a priority basis so that these people in crores secularism under such circumstances ? It can also cast their votes. This is a b2sic has actually become a fashion to talk of issue, therefore, I want that hon. Minister secularism now-a-days, we should, theie- snould pay immediate attention to this mat- tore, stop talking of these things and ter and gettheir names included in the voters descend to the world of reality. If, in fact, we list which is drawn up by going from house to wantto do justice, we should talk of humanity house and a leceipt to this effect is also otherwise no one will be prepared to accept issued. But when these peopl9 go to cast our views regardi"g secularism. their votes they are told that th~ir names are not thme in the voters' list even when the I would reiterate that delimitation of receip~s are in their possession. constituencies should be made afresh and in a. manner which will reduce expenditure. Thus, many strange things are done The constitllencies are very foragmented. I while preparing the voters' list. voters list cit~ the exalnple of Hyderabad i"Lself. rne should be prepared properiy. The names of Government wa"ts election expenses to be lakhs of voters are omitted from the list reduced. In Hyderabad there is Hydeorabad deliberately whenever the party in power constituency. and it stretches upl:l fandus teels that they will nc~ cast their votes in Its which is 70 kms away. This is done to pre- favour. The voters may have the receipt but vent others from winning the election from his name is not there in the list. this constituency. There is another constituency ill Hyde:-abad which is ,lamed as Ma:- As regards the registration of political kapet Hvderabad and it stretches upto Nal- parties, it is not clear as to what for thiS gonda wnich is also 70 krns away from the registration should be got done. In the regis- city. ThesQ constituencies are fragmented tration prccess one has to go t~rough so because the party in power cannot win elec- many formalities that it becomes difficult for tion In Hyderabad proper. Therefore, under a political party to get :tself registered. The fresh delimlt3tions 5uch things shuuld be proposal for registration cf political parties taken into account and seen t'13t constituen- can be accepted If the procedure is sirnpll- cies are delimited ii1 such a manner that it fied to enable tlie political parties to get entails less expenditure. The sitl..!ation pre- themselves registered without any difficw6y. vailing is such that though every thing is done for personal gains yet it is said that rt h3.s been for the sake of seculansm. Thus, A mention has been made of st:lGular- we find a strang& interrogation POint &very- ism and commu,lalism. I cannot understand where. as to what these two terms mean. Such strange things are happening in tne whole Along with It, I want to submit ona mme country. Just see what IS haPP0ning in poillt he, e. As in the case ot Harijal"'s, the? Andhra Pradesh. When R~ddies nappen t.:> facility of reservation should also ~e ex- enjoy more authority all the Reddies of ~he tended to muslims. Either represe.ntation State get promotions. Similarly, when Kam- should always be ensured or there should be maon happer. to enjo)' more authorlty, the reservation for Muslims. Otherwise secular- people belonging to this commllnity get ism will be affected. promotions. For ins'lancq, a:1 officer has beoome D.G. B. after sU~Jerceding 6 persons Madam. Chairman, I thank you for giv- who werA senior to hi:",:. Thus, it would be ing me an opportunity to make my submis- better if we do not talk of secularism and sion. 83 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 84 Second Amdt) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

14.00 hra. I also won the election while I was also behind the bars. Everyone in Bihar is aware SHRI KAli PRASAD PANDEY (GopaJ- and it was also reported uninamously in all ganj): Mr. Chairman Sir, I want to first sup-- the newspaper at that time that Kali Pandey port the amending Bill brought forward by the had been implicated falsely. At that time, han. Minister for reducing the voting age Mishraji's Government was in power and I from 21 to 18 years. had exposed the bungling of crores of rupees at Pipra. I was pressurised to with- While listening to the views express ld draw my question. I did not do so with the by the hon. Members of the Ruling Party;: 'ld result that a case under section 302 of IPC the Opposition who participated in the f s· was filed against me, although I was in Patna cussion yesterday, I was non-plussed e- atthattime. I made every effort bL:t I was not cause I do not belong to any party. The main released from the Jail. I filed my nomination objective of the han. Member of the Ruling papers f~m inside the jail and today I am Party is to deprive of thE' Independent candi- occupying the Opposition bench. I won by dates frem contesting elections. It has been maximum number of votes and the candi- proposed thatthe amount of security deposit dates belonging to the Ruling Party as well for these candidates should be raised from as the Opposition, both lost their security Rs. 10,000 to Rs 25,000. deposits. Is there any justice today? If someO'lg speaks truth for justice, he is jailed. I am still sitting along with the opposi- But if somoone speaks what is far from truth, tion. Wh:le listening to hon. Sh. i Indrajit no action is taken against him. Gupta, it seemed to me that he supports our point. We think that, on the contrary to what As regards, the penal provisions being the Ruling Party Members have proposed, made in this Bill, I want to know from the hon. there should be a provision to debar a can- Law Minister as to how will it be prcved didate from oontesting electicns if he loses whether a candidate has in fact violated his socurity deposit irrespective of whether section 376 of IPC for which he is debarred he belongs to the Ruling Party or the Oppo- from contesting elections. There rs a possi- sition. I myself won the 1980 electio:1s by 45 bility that a case und9r this section, can be !housand votes as an Independent candi- filed against a candidate just before the date. I left my t~achers' training to oontest elections take place so that he is debarred. the elections. All other candidate,; belonging I wa~ listening 10 all the speeches. The hon. to the Ruling Party as w911 as the Opposition Prime Minister too has considered the can- lost their security d€po~its. didature of the independent candidates but he has been at least liberal to them. While So far as offences are concerned, you referring to the indeppndent candidates may reoollec:t that Shah Commission and yesterday, several hon. Members said that ether, CommissiOns were constituted to independent candidates contest elections enquire into the allegations made against for money. I would like to s~bmit to all the late Shrimati Indira Gandhi and she was also hon. Members that i will resign from the put behind the bars. Later on, the Magistrate meMbership of this House if this is proved. gave the verdr-t that those all3gations were But I have S!gen at th~ time of elections that false and far from the truth. When George no party could go beyond caste considera· Fernandes entered this rlouso as a Member ticns whil& distributing party tickots. You can of Janata Pc.rty, it was stated in this House, not put an end to caste considerations. I hail by the Ruling Party of that time that injustice from Arrah but I was made to contest from had been done to him and since the people's Gopalganj. There is no political party in the court had found him iMocent as h'3 had won country which does not give financial assis- the election while he was behind the bars, all tance to it!. candidates, the candidate con- the cases filed against him should, there- testir.g the election wants that even if he fore, be withdrawn. looses at least the money provide1 by the 85 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24. 1910 (SAKA) Representation 86 Second Amdt.) SOl & of People (Amdt.) Bill party must be with him. Unless the man is offICe. However after only 2 minutes the devoted to the cause of humanity this Bill is ruffians started stoning at the cars and jeeps not going to have any impact in rural areas or standing in front of my offICe. Not only this, on the common man. they even started firing. At this I came out of my office but they even fired at me. You are If the Government wants to conduct free aware that I was admitted in the hospital on and fair elections in the States. then they the 17th of June and the han. Prime Minister should give full authority to the Election himseH came to see me there. Both of my Commission. The party in power in a state legs got fractured due to the bullets which hit would certainly like to have the advantage of me. Democracy is there in the name only. its authority in elections. We have seen such things. An M.P.'s leg was injured and it was bleeding but no one Yesterday many hon. Members lev- was prepared to take him to the hospital. My elled allegations against the tA.S. and tP.S. colleagues Shri Bhajan Lal and Shri Sultan officers. It has been seen that if these offi- Singh carried me to the hospital. How can cers do not agree with them, they are trans- elections be free and fair at a place where ferred. such things are happening. I dare say that had there been no both capturing in Fari- With these words I would like to say that dabad, our party would have won that seat no restrictions should be imposed on the role very easily. , would request that such a of independent candidates. I am grateful to provision should be incorporated in p90ple's you for giving me the time to speak. Representatiori Act. that no person would have any arms, or even a lathi because they CH. RAM PRAKASH (Ambala): Mr. use it for terrifying the people. My submis- Chairman, Sir, this Bill was long awaited. sion !S that if this Bill for a election reforms is The Government has been kind enough in passed it will help the poor. introducing such a legislation in the Parlia- ment. The Government empowered the I would like to add that harijans are the poor with franchise after independence bl.1 worst victims of this atrocity. If they happen they were not able to caste the;r vote at their to cast their vote, they are not allowed to own will Now with the help of this Bill the enter the fields by t"e landlords and t"e big poor harijans will be able to vote for the zamindars for having voted against their Will. candidate of their own liking. They are not allowed to work in the fields ot zamindars, where is the democracy left I would like to narrate an anecdote hers. then? Hon Prime Minister deserves our Lok Sabha elections were conducted in thanks who inspired that such a Bill should Faridabad some time back. J""as put on duty be introduced. from the Congress side ~here in Palwal. I camped at the congress office and collected Be&ides I want to rnaka dnother point all the workers there. After a few days about that if the elections are nC'" ~-:;.ld I"": an "npar- 100-150 ruffians of Lok Dal and Bhartiya tial way and the Congress Party which rep- Janata Party collected at a distanca of 100 resel'lts the poor sections 0' the 30ciety loses yards. My workers asked me as to how can in the elections thE>n ! fee! t'"',at the poor will elections be conducted there successfdly not be left to survive. We often hear, particu- and how can a poor person cast his vote in larly about Haryana, that a number of girls the preS4nce of so many musclemen there. have been raped and beaten, p!:lople have I myself went there and informed the police been murdered, fal~e cases have been filed force and the S.P. about the whole state of and shooting orders issued. If ;'bryana affairs. The S.P. assured me that no booth (1ovArnrT"ent succeeds in all these things, capturing will take place there and in case it we are not going to be spared. How ca., a happens, he will himself be responsible for poer person be sCived when an M.P. can De that. At this 1got satisfied and ret,.Jfned to my killed. I am very grateful to our han. Primp. 87 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Repressntation 88 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Ch. Ram Prakash] of booth capturing. For the first time the booth capturing has been made a punish- Minister and Shri Bhagat who has done a able offence and a malpractice. In addition, great job fcr the poor al1d protectea their the officers have also been brought within freedom by introducing thIS bill in the Parlia- the purview of this because many a time we ment. filld that the officers also not only connive at but actual~1 collude with the parties in bogus [English] voting. So, this is a very salutary provision.

SHRI SATYENDRA NARAYAN SINHA I will go a step fUither now. The Prime (Aurangabad): Madam, I rise to welcome Minister said that the principle of introduction these two Bills. The Prime Minister has re- of mutti purpose Identity Card has been deemed his promise to the nation in bringing accepted and the details have to be worked forward these Bills. He had promised to the out. I suggest, Madam Chairman, that to n3tion that he wou!d initiate comprehensive begin w:th we shuuld introduca mutti-pur- electoral reforms and these Bills havQ baen pose Identity. Cards at least in the urban brought before the House after having done araas where our polling agents do not know a good deal of work, thinking and discussion all the voters. This will be a good step to stop w;th others. As my friends have already said, boglJS voting and impersonation in the urban these steps are in the right direction and the areas and we should start with it. It would not steps are revoluticnary and i.istorical. be difficult for us to do so. Before the elections, the Pakistan Government decided to For ipstance. the reduction OT voting introduce the Identity Cards and they did it agl::t shows that the Government place., a So, it should not be very difficutt for us to great faith in the youth, in the democracy and adopt this system and introduce it at least in in the people. By bringing the youth into the the urban areas. Mr. Gadgil told us yester- electora! process, we are providing an op- day that it casts about Rs 450 crores. That is portunity to the youth to influence the poli- a stupendous amount. So, on a selective cies of the nation c.n issues like education, basis we should do it and introduce it In the sports and JObs and all these will receive urban areas to start with. priority in cur thinking and pla'ining. I would also suggest that the Polling In the course vf next twelve years, the Ofticer should be provided with the armed new generation will completely take over. guard. If you have to inslJlata them from the We have chosen a young person to lead this tear and thraat of the criminals, then it is nation. Pakistan and India have shown the necessary that you should give them armed way. So, this decision is ir step with the world guards. trend and I do hope that the ideals which guided our frGedom figt"lters will guide our For the first time, Madam, we have youth in shapipg the policies of the country widened the scope of offences under section and in achieving the goals that have been set 8, conviction under which with entaij dis- out in the Con~titution. qualification and social offences have also been brought into it. The introduction of the voting machine in selected sensitive areas, numbering 150, Now, we should do something for pre- is a right step and will prevent booth captur- venting frivolous candidates from contesting i"g and bogus voting. This is fan experiment elections. Mr. Patil made a s'uggestion that which is being made. Earlier it was done in the limit of security deposits should be raised one of the constituencies in Bihar also and it to 20,000 and 10,000 in urban and rural worked very well. areas respectively. I endorse his suggestions. With regard to the ceiling on expendi- BAsides, this Bill provides for offences ture, m,uch has been said about the money 89 Constitution (Sixfy- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 90 SBCOnd Arndt.) Bil/ & of People (Amdt.) BNI power. The ceiling expenditure is supposed These are my suggestions and with to limit expenditure. Our experience is that these few words, I welcome the Bill and I we do not spend within the lim it set by the law congratulate the Govemment because they and mOS1: of us - I do not know about others have come fOlWard with definite steps to - but most of us submit false returns. Madam ensure free and fair elections and to rid the I would suggest in all fairness that we should democratic process of the criminal remove this clause altogether. We should elements. not be required to submit any return. Be- cause when we enter the House after sub- [ Trans/ation] mitting fatse returns, we come here with a guilty conscience that we are starting our SHRI SHAMINOER SINGH (Faridkot): career by making false declaration. Babu Madam Chairman, I support the Bill which Purushotham Das Tandon while Speaking has been introduced in the House in orderto in this House on the Representation of include the youth in the voter list. The youth People Act in 1950, urged strongly that the of our country needed franchise and the ceiling on expenditure should go because it Government is providing it. makes you submit false returns and make you tell lies right from the beginning. Besides I would like to add that now this Bill is going to be passed the youth of this Nobody has referred to the question of country too should be allowed to participate Election Petitions. Madam, the election peti- in future elections. In this regard the State tions take inoradinately long time so much so Governments should be given instructions that by the time they are decided the results that after this bill'is passed steps should be become infructuous. Even in a case where it taken to see that the youths participate in has to be decided as to whether the nomina- every coming election. These days Punjab is tion paper has been accepted rightly or under Gov9rnor's rule and Panchayat elec- wrongly, the court takes four years or more tions are going to be conduded there. Those to hear the arguments. Why should there be panchayat elections may be extended for such a long delay? Shouldn't the Govern- another 2-4 months but the youttl should be ment think of setting up "Of some kind of time included in the voters list to enable them to of span? The election pitition should be caste their vote in this election. disposed of well within the time so that it should not hang like the Damocles sword Secondly I want to submit that the sys- over the eJected members. And also those tem adopted for electing the Prime Minister who are going to be benefited by the results in Parliament and the Chief Minister in As- should also not be deprived of the decisions semblies should be adopted for the electiOO and their favour. Only recently, a candidate of Sarpanch in the villages. The eledions for from Bihar has been declared eleeted. But Sarpanch are held direct. My submission is there is a petition in this regard. Now the that the states should be directed through appeal will go to the Supreme Court and he the Election Commission that there should wilt be deprived of the benefit of this judge- be a uniform pattern of elections and. there- ment in his favour. fore, surpanch should not be eaacted through a direct election process but should RAO BIAENORA SINGH (Mahendra- be elected through the Members. gam): Some persons have died. But their cases are still pending. There are some apprehensions regarding the other Bin. Registration of the parties SHA' SATYENDRA NARAYAN is mere an eye wash. The Government wit SINHA: Yes. There are such instances. do what it feels right. Recently anti-defac:tion These pRJbIems must be tackled by the Bill was introduced bv the Government and Government and the MIction petitions must the ruling party aid what it felt was appropri- be disposai:l t1 expeditiously. ate. I give you an example of the Parliament 91 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 92 Second Amdt.) BiR & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. Shaminder Singh] thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak. wh8re if a Member wants to join the ruling Party, it is all right, but if a Member wants to [Eng/ish] go to the Opposition Party. he is unattached. SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA RAO (Vijayawada): Mr. Deputy Speaker, I shall cite my own example. Four Sir, thank you very much for giving me an months back we formed a separate party opportunity to speak on this Bill. I will be very and five our of the seven M.P.s joined the brief. I want to make only two or three points. party. Our party was accorded recognition by the Parliament. After seven months a The hen. Members who preceded me letter was produced in the name of another have appreciated some measures which are President and we were unattached. H a incorporated in the Bill to ensure a free and member of the Congress (s), which is unat- fair poll, such as prevention of booth captur- tached. wants to joint the Congress (I), he ing and deterrent punishment for that, as can do so. Therefore, I feel that this Bill which well as introduction of Electronic Voting is about the registration has been introduced Machines in some constituencies. Those with the objective of suppressing the minor- two measures themselves will not prevent ity communities, be they Sikhs or Muslims. bogus voting. I agree with the senior learned So I would request you to bring in such a colleague Shri Satyendra Narayan Sinha. legislation which should contain uniform who just spoke. It is a fact that in big" towns or provisions fo,r all. Nothing should be left to cities. we are not in a position to prevent the discretion. Such provisions should not impersonation because even the cadres be there. coukt not identify several hundreds of peop6e who come to the polling booth and 14.25 hra. unless one raises an objection, he is entitled to cast his vote. So my submission is - your [MR. OEPU rv -SPEAKER in the Chait} AICC (I) also had recommended - you issue multi-purpose identity cards. The hon. I shall say one last point before endihg Prime Minister has said that a beginning will my speed\. House number of the voters be made. h is a good thing. But my submis- should not be mentioned in the voters list in sion is why are you going back? Why are you our country. The name of every citizen of hesitating? After all, the same multi-purpose India- whether he is putting up in a MJhuggi' identity cards will be usefutfor Parliamentary or ' Jhopri' or whether his house bears a elections, Assembly elections and also the number assigned by the municipal commit- Local Body elections. So, the burden need tee or not. should be included in the voters' not be borne entirely by the Central Govern- list . This list should reach the viUage sar- ment. You borne half of the expenses and panch or '; numberdar' two months before the rest half. you pass on to the State the elections so that any person whose Governments. It is because when these name has been omitted, may also be in- identity cards are once issued, they will be cluded in it. Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Sir, actu- intact for another three or four elections. ally the members of the ruling party get the They will be of great help. In some countries updated list and votes are cast on lhe basis where these multi-purpose identity cards are of this n_1i8t on the polling day. The original given. they are found to be very-very useful. hi is ignoNd. There are several such ex- This win not only be ~I for elections, ampIea. On several occasions it so happens which comes once in five years, but wI1 also thai ,.,.. are found cmssed in the original be ~I" the farmers for obtaining loans 1st. 110m the -banks. They heed not go to the vIIage KIImam or PIIIWaIi altha way to take WtIh this I conclUde my speech and some CII'tiIicates.. Thae identity cards .. 93 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 94 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

enable them to get loans. You kindly come Doordarshan and AIR. This practice is now forward in this direction. After all you have continuing. But even now you are taking the spent ~ of money in organising the ASIAD lion's share in Doordarshan. which is a in Delhi and now you are spending lot of powerful mass media. So, I request that the money on IPKF which is kept in Sri Lanka. two mass media viz~ AIR and Doordarshan You know how much money, you are spend- also should be brought under the control of ing on them. I am told, it is more than a crore the Election Commission for that period. foroneday,lnthecircumstances, the money that is to be spent on identity cards will not be SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABULI much, when we take into consideration its (Srinagar): This epoch-making Bill which advantages. has been introduced in this House and is being passed, reduces the age of YOtingr. In the present Bill, you have not incorpo- from 21 to 18 years. I must appreciate the rated any penal provision to discourage sincerity of the Government. and I think this impersonation. We have suggested for a will revolutionize the whole democratic punishment - either for a week's jail or Rs atmosphere in our country. The younger 500/- as fine. Otherwise you cannot discour- generation now needs to play a vital role in age these crimes. our political life. They are being encouraged by this Bill. Thereby I feel that we have really The other point which I want to bring to entered into the 21st Century. your notice is regarding the disbursement of discretionary grants by the Government on Indian demoCracy has stood the test of the eva of elections. It should also be in- the times. I think it is because of the Indian cluded in the definition of corrupt practices. democracy that in Pakistan also, the revival Earlier the Election Commission has also of democracy was made possible ; and it recommended for such a proVision. It so was made possible because Indian democ- happened that just before the announce- racy had its impact on our close neighbour, ment of the elections to the Nagaland As- viz. Pakistan which suffered during the last sembly, the Prime Minister has announced eleven years. I remember that even Zul- that the State's Plan outlay has been en- fiquar Ali Bhutto, the late Prime Minister of hanced from Rs 210 crores to Rs 400 crores Pakistan had mentioned in his book, Ilf I am - just before the eJections, and that 90% of assassinated' the greatness of the Indian it will be met by the Union Government. Just democracy. He had preferred Indian democ- before the elections, this type of influencing racy to Pakistan's dictatorship, when he was the voters should not take place. So, this behind the bars there. aspect also should be taken into consideration. In this country also, there are many tensions. Unfortunately, in some areas Last point: you have said in Clause 5 people lost the sense of democracy. In this . that the State machinery should be brought respect. I mention Kashmir. From 1953 for under the control of the Election Commis- 22 years, unfortunately certain things hap- sion. Okay; but if you are sincere that this pened there, whereby there was no fairplay machinery should not be misused, why not in the elections; and when many Govern- agree to bring Allindta Radio and the Ooord- ments came to power there during that pe- arshan also within the control of the Election riod. There was no public participation in Commission during the period? Before the them, as such. After 1975 when there was Janata Government came into power in the Sheikh Saheb- Indira Gandhi accord. a 19n, it was only the ruling party her. which new role was played by the people in Ka- was utilising all the facilities of these bodies. shmir. They felt that they were part of this It was only after the Janata Government great country. came into being that this position was changed, and others got these facilities in It is my earnest desire that in thasa 95 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 R9pf9ssntation 96 Second Arndt) Bill & of Psople (Arndt) Bill

[She Abdul Rashid Kabulij SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY (Puri): At the fag end of the day I do not know border areas, .democracy is the only solu- what I should say about it. But one thing has tion. sometimes we talk about solutions to been very much pointed out by some of the some problems, but no solution can be there friends in the opposition; it relates to the role to problems, except through public participa- of money power in our electoral process. tion. So, when we think of political solutions, we should realise that only through mass AN HON. MEMBERS: Orissa is also participation by the electorate we can find there. the solutions. Sometimes there may be one ruling party in the State, and another at the SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY: Centre. A ruling party always thinks that it is Orissa is absolutely different from this. You the right of that party to rule that State, and know that Orissa is free from communal that by hook or crook it should come to power tension, free from caste consideration, free in the State. It is in the national interest that from booth capturing, free from all these there is fairplay in the exercise of the fran- problems. For the success of the electoral chise in the border States. I mention Jammu system, we have to re-structure all the politi- and Kashmir especially, where we should be cal parties. H the political parties ;tre not re- very careful to see that in future, we encour- structured, and do not respond to it, I am of age whosoever comes up with the support of the opinion that, even if all the statutory the people. When we trusted people from the measures are implemented, we will not centre from 1953 till 1975, we have seen that succeed. I congratulate the Law Minister for it has created many chronic problems. There making an attempt to improve the system of was no feeling of integration in the minds of re-structuring the political parties. the people. The country knows what price So, far as maintenance of accounts is we had to pay in that State. We must trust the concerned, it has not been provided. Every- people. They may opt for any party, but rest body knows the reason tor this. The political assure that they believe in the integrity of the parties fundion at different levels. Neither nation. they have any party office nor there is anybody to write an account. So all the cash in Thera is one very important point re- the form of collection into the pocket of garding the promises which the political somebody; that is a reality. Whether it is parties make at the time of election. You Congress Party or CPI or CPI (M) or any have to keep this point in mind. At the time of other political party, they have got their election, ruling party and the opposition accounts. I am watching the debate since parties always give people good promises yesterday. There is no violent reaction to for their development, for making their future section 13 (a) of the income-tax Ad which secure for giving them employment and so allows the political parties not to include on. But, unfortunately, when the election subscriptions in their accounts in their in- process comes to and end. those promises come. Then there is no violent reaction to are not implemented. So, the House should section 293 (a) of the companies Ad. Well, take cognisance of this point and the law ~body knowsthe limitations. We have to should be amended in such c1 ,*"y as when make this system a success. My friends those promises are not implemented by a have already said so much about the divisive particular political party, then such promises forceS which are working inside. We have to should come under the category of an of- build up a certain integrated force, a united fence; and that particular political party ~ culture, for this purpose; that is most impor- should be disqualified from seeking future tant; and that experimeat is going on. It is not efection.. So. those political parties which do that this is hundred per cent a perfect Bill. I not implement the promises given to the don't say that it is a perfect Bill nor that people at the time of election, should not be proc8ss IS stopped. Here, it is a Iong..,mg ~ to fight election in Mure. proceaa: 97 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 98 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Now, I would like to draw the attention of the matters which are to be considered. the House tothe statement made by the hon. Prime Minister at the Centenary celebra- SHRI AMAL DATTA (Diamond Har- tions. He has given guidelines. We have to bour): This Bill has been brought after the congratulate him because he has taken a scheduled session of the Lok Sabha ex- very important step. On page 35, it reads as pired. After extending the session the Bill follows: could be circulated only belatedly, and it shows the delayed reaction time of the "The country needs a politics of service Government. to the poor. The country needs a politics based on ideology and programmes. To PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: This is bring this about we must break the extended wisdom. nexus between political parties and vested interests. We will change the SHRI AMAL DATTA: Because, the electoral laws to ensure cleaner elec- genesis of the Bill has to found in the tions. We will make political parties Government's defeat in the by-election in accountable for the funds they receive. June, particularly the one held at Allahabad. We will wage an ideological war against Instead of their getting accolades from the those who exploit the poor in the name Opposition, the Government has come for of caste and religion." very sharp criticism both for what the Bill does not contain and for the provisions Another thing. Shri Indrajit Gupta has contained in the Bill. The Bill has dashed the pointed it out. He has made a very vital point. hopes of the Opposition, of a comprehen- We must be decisive about it. He says that sive electoral reform, which hopes were this is a plural society. Naturally, a political raised because of the Prime Minister's re- party bound to establish free enterprise in peated promises through the Presidential this country, should we allow it to participate Address in 1985 , his own address in Bom- in the election process or not? My submis- bay to the Congress Party, and repeatedly sion is that we should not allow. There is no he has been saying about bringing in com- controversy on th is. We should not allow it. A prehensive electoral reforms. party trying to establish a free enterprise we should not allow. And, as a matter of fact, The Bill that we have gottoday or we are somebody was referring to Birlas - I would discussing from yesterday, touches, as we not like to mention the names - but all the have all said, only the peripheral problems same, Birlas and Tatas have already taken and that too not adequately. their seats in the Rajya Sabha. There are clear words, they are expressed in the The main hopes of the Opposition are Constitution. So, indirectly they have al- geared to have a proportional representa- ready done. That is why I say, so far as the tion system. Because, as the statistics have Constitution is concerned, about our alle- made it very clear and as has been shown by giance there should not be hesitation about more than one speaker now, the popular will it and anybody who does not say it, and has has never got reflected in the composition of never said it, definitely cannot participate in the House. They very existence of the Con- the electoral process. We do not say that gress Party as a ruling party is dependant on they will have no existence in this country. that very factor. So, I do not think that the Congress Party as long as it is a ruling party And another, I have said it earlier also, and based on a minority vote will ever bring is thatthere are some citizens who are taking such a measure which will mean its own active part in terrorist acts. Somebody is in doOm. It will not do it. But that does not mean Canada, somebody is in UK and some- that one has to criticise and throwaway body is somewhere else. Will their citizen- through the window the system of propor- ship rights be continued? So, these are all tional representation. The Opposition will 99 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 100 Sscond Arndt.) BiR & of People (Amdt) BiD

[Sh. Amal Datta] constrained for lack of money and that wm again mean destruction of the Congress. demand it - this is a lop-sided system, the That is why they are opposing State funding. simple majority system which we have at the moment - not only because it will replace THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUS- the Congress Party not only because it will TICE AND MINISTER OF WATER RE- bring the Opposition into power, but also SOURCES (SHRI B,. SHANKARANAND): because -it is the,only system which does not Mr. Deputy-Speaker, first of all I must thank depend llJlOn the marginal voter. In a simple all the hon. Members who took interest in the majority system the vote shifts from this Amending Bills and had studied amply and party to that party which shows up 3 per cent expressed their views freely and did help the or 4 per cent, then the party is defeated at the debate to realise the importance of the polls, or the party wins at the polls. So, it is Amending Bills in view of the situation that only on what the marginal voter wilt like, that has developed in the country today. I must the policy of the Government is determined thank an those who have made some rele- and not in the national interests. This is vant suggestions or otherwise also. perhaps a far more grave or smious concern, serious reason why we should change I would not like to take much time of the over from the simple majority to proportional House on the points which have been raised representation and this may be made a in this House beyond the scope of the subject matter of a national debate. I am not Amending Bills because the time is very asking you to do it now, or to do it next year. short and the House has decided to pass You make it a subject matter for a national those Bills today. debate, which it has not hitherto been. Even at the time of the Constitution, there was no Sir, my humble political life started with national debate as to which system of rep- my contesting elections since 1956. I want to resentation we should opt for. say this to show how things have changed, how extraneous forces have been working in Sir, We have all wanted political funding order to grab power and come to the seat. In and Mt:.Gadgjj from the other side said that 1956, I spent only Rs 821- in a municipal 98 crores of rupees would be required if election. .... (/nterruptions) Sir, it is most three candidates of each Constituency have unfortunate that Mr. Amal Datta does not to be fundfd to the extent of around five realise the importance of what I say. You lakhs of rupees. The election expenses limit have come directly and I know how you have is only Rs 1.5 .Jakh in most of the major come. Why do you comment on somebody's States. In that way the expense will be much life? less. What is the style of the functioning of this Government? So much of money is In 1967 when I come first to the Parlia- being wasted in so many corners, in so many ment, I spent only As 7500/- I am saying this ways and in some money spheres. H that because a very valiq point was raised by money is spent for this purpose, this amount Prof. Dandavate yesterday. We were to- will be nothing. Even personal protection of gether even before pre-independence in an the Prime Minister requires more than Rs institution ... (Interruptions) 500 crores and even the visits made to the States for election purposes cost more than PROF. MADHU OANDAVATE: Even Rs.100croresforoneelection. Hthismoney we can meet together if you come this side. can be spent, then Rs. 98 crores is not a sum, which cannot be given to the electorate SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: The for the purpose of political funding. The r~ samething can happen if you come this side reason why the Congress cannot do and will ... -also, with us, not otherwise. not do is that it wiD put ;the opposition in a ....paaiIion and the opposition will not be Sir, all this exercise the House is cbing 101 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 102 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill since independence when this Clause was cided to eliminate me from the election put for adult franchise. Then the framers of scene. There was an attempt on my life in the the Constitution were involved in giving a election campaign thinking that, "Oh, this political right to everyone irrespective of his man is going to win with the help of the poor, economic situation. One man, one vote. how to defeat him just eliminate him". Whether he is a multi-millionaire or a poor man living in a hut, he has one vote only. The SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: What isthe situation in pre-independence period was provision in the Bill? entirely different. It was only the property owners who had the vote. And the people SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I am com- who did not possess any property worth the ing to that. Before adopting these measures, name, did not have the vote, they had no you must understand the social system in right to shape the political future of the coun- the country. It is not only money power and try. It is only after independence that we muscle power but the caste power also have been able to shape the political, and which is dominant. The dominant caste economic situation and position of the coun- always rules the weaker sections. They are try. We cannot transform the society by not allowed to vote according to their choice. violent revolution. It is Gandhiji who brought So it is not only the money and muscle power independence in this country through non- bu the social system also which is existing in violent revolution. Now the election process the rural areas .... is one through which we are trying to trans- torm the society, to create an egalitarian SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: But the society through the process of elections and Prime Minister said otherwise. in that every one who is of the voting age, till now 21 years, has the right to participate in SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I will come shaping the political future which will decide to your State. Please wait. Regarding the the economic situation of everybody in this communal parties I will tell you. country. SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: You are I had a very, interesting experience having an alliance with them. when I had a discussion with the political leaders on this subject. As per tile direction SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Unless the of the Prime Minister and as per his promise weak men, the weak voters, economically to Parliament, I did discuss various meas- weak men, socially weak men, suppressed ures before the political party leaders. I had and oppressed, have the necessary a very interesting discussion- discussion to strength with them, free exercise of vote is the extent that some leader went on to say, going to be difficult. It is not the corrupt leave alone the poor people getting the right practice alone, it is the social system which to vote, let us have power to buy time from is corrupting the very election system. Now the TV; we are willing to pay money. As the to create a society which is above these advertisers are buying time on the television, things, we must see that these people, who one of th political leaders said that they were are suppressed and oppressed, are given willing to buy the time. That shows how much an opportunity and scope to participate in the money that political party has. I am not election of their representatives. Is it done? talking only of the wretch od influence of And for that purpose under the leadership of money power on society while electing the Mr. Rajiv Gandhi, we have been able to Government of this country. There are other explore as 10 how this poor man, the weak things which I had experienced while con- man can come and exercise his valuable testing elections right from the rural areas. In right to send his representative. Now, who the election of 1984, leave alone the elimina- are these forces which J.o no! want theso tion of corrupt practices, the opposition party weaker sections to COOle. forward and ~1 which set up a candidate against me, de- The forces are the dominant caste psoolo. 103 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 104 Second Amdt.) BUI & of PeopIs (Amdt.) Bill

[She B. Shankaranand] essential and to keep democracy in tact, perhaps these measures are essential. May be they are very few in the village but it is the caste that counts. The forces are the I do not want to go into the other details landlords who have the economic strong- because the leaders from both the sides hold on the weaker sections. The forces are have made my task very easy, especiaHythe the political thugs who, at any cost, want to prime Minister who has said about the politi- capture the power and rule this country. cal philosophy for which we have brought These are the forces which are trying to these amending Bills. I should say again that prevent the poorer sections of the country to let us not treat these amendIng Bills so come to the polling booth and vote. With lightly. I am happy that almost all of you who them there are others also who very have spoken, have said nothing on the shrewdly, very intelligently participate in the amending Bills. You have spoken something process of rigging. Apart from booth captur- extraneous which is not concerned with the ing, a silent process of rigging of the polls Bills. One or two parties which do not believe also does take place. Now, these are the in the very system of the present elections things. How they can be prevented is a have, of course said something else and the problem. The recent experience in the vari- House knows who are those people and ous elections has shown us that these ugly what is the concept of their democracy be- powers are raising their heads. They are cause they do not believe in the present willing to do anything to capture power. They system of elections. They are after the Ust are willing to do anything to come to power, System. They are after the proportional not for the sake of the welfare of the country representation. But the concept of those but for their own sake, even at the Cost of the people is limited to their own ideas of the interests of the nation. They are willing to sell political system .... (/nterruptions) the interests of the nation to come to power even by indulging in the activities which, I SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE should say, are most detestable, con- (Panskura): May I know what is the concep- demnabte. This is what is happening today. tion of Your democracy? (Interruptions) I must thank the Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi that he.has shown his courage and SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Madam, conviction to bring such provisions today the definition of my democracy is entirely before the House that as far as possible, we different from that of yours. (Interruptions) should see that protection is given to this Don't try to insult the people of this oountry Wolak man: the poor man, the majority of who have brought us to this side by saying whom is in rural India. They should get so. The people who have believed in the strength and courage because they have democracy which we believe in have conviction in democracy, not the moneyed brought us on this side. You are forgetting man, not the landed gentry. They do not that. Oon't forget that. believe in democracy. Democracy in this country is required for the poor man because SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: You have he represents more than seventy per cent. come with the minority vote. (Interruptions) Democracy is not required for the rich people who want to exploit the poor people. Their SHRIB.SHANKARANAND:Mr. Dep- definition of democracy is entirely different. uty-Speaker, the han. Member has said Their democracy is for the rich gentry. Their about the majority vote and minority vote. I democracy js for those who exploit the poor want to give a very simple example. Perhaps people. Their concept of people is entirely though it is in a lighter vein still it will explain different. Real democracy is the one which about the minority and majority in regard to wit give power and strength to the poor what the Marxist Members have said. There people to shape the political destiny of this was a running race. How may political country. For those people democracy is parties have you got? We have 7 national 105 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) R9pI'8S9ntation 106 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill and 25 State parties. In the running race for bringing forward and amendment to the 400 metres, a man who came first was Constitution. That was a taxing problem. declared first and was to be awarded the Perhaps everybody has appreciated that medal. Tj1en rest of the people who could not thing. reach the goal in time said what is this? We have run and if you add the distances that we Another point ;s regarding multi-mem- have run, we are far more than that man's bership. The Prime Minister did make it running distance and "'e medal should be amply clear as to what was the problem and given to us" This is what you saying. Be- what was the solution. We said, the problem cause we got 400/0 or 45% of the votes and is yours and we have no problem. We have all of you put together got 50% or 55% of the full faith and confidence in the Chief Election votes, you think that you should come here. CommISsioner. We do not have any prob- You have done that exercise from 19n-79. lem. The problems and doubts have been You have done that and the country has expressed by you people. Now, may I inform , seen what you have done. You have been the House that when I had discussion with thrown out. Please don't speak about that. the political leaders, everybody said that the Now, what are you doing in West Bengal? Election Commission should be strength- My friends, Mr. Das Munsi and the hon. lady ened. Everyone said that the Election Member have amply said what your democ- Commission should be strengthened. Of racy is. They have given a challenge to Prof. course, they did say that there should be Dandavate to go and tour West Bengal and multi-member Commission. But no one said see the situation for himseH so that he may anything about improving the system that is know how democracy is functioning there. working in the pr~sent election Commission. Now, of course, you have made many sug- SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: You can gestions. But, don't you think that the also go there and see yourseH. Amending Bill has ample provision to give him power to have authority over the people SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Now, Sir, who are drafted for the work of the elections, many hon. Members have spoken about during the eledion period and during the one thing and that is that according to them time of preparation of electoraJ rolls? Don't many things have been left out in the Bill. you see that? Of course, you have nothing to They said about he delimitation. They asked say against that. why delimitation commission has not been set up before the next election. I have ex- Sir, an issue was raised about the ban- plained in my speech while introducing this ning of communal parties. The Prime Minis- Bill. I have said that it is not physically pos- ter also made the point very clear. Nobody sible even if you set up the delimitation will say that I belong to any communal party commission now. The Commission's work either by overt or (X)vert action in my political will not be complete by the time the next life. He will say, " don't belong to any com- general elections take place. munal party'. But now the House will see that as the Prime Minister has said we are appre- Now, the rotation of seats was sug- ciating and we are thankful to Prof. Dan- gested. Under the direction of the Prime davate and Mr. Haroobhaj Mehta for the Minister, I had discussion with the political amendment that they have made and we leaders. Many Members have said that there have accepted their amendment. We are has been a lot of resentment in the constitu- amending, t am moving it as a Government encies where the seats are reserved for the amendment in the form that is required and Scheduled Castes land Scheduled Tribes. I think the House can appreciate how keen This was expressed by them. But I asked and interested we are to see that people who them, -How could we do it'"? They say that are really not wanted in the House are pre- the delimitation is the only answer; other- vented from fighting the election and that is wise we cannot rotate these seats without the reason why we have brought these van- 107 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15.1988 Represenflttion 108 Second Arndt) BiR & of People (Arndt.) BiB

[Sh. B. Shankaranand] House very consciously to give the poor man not only the vote but also the opportunity to ous disqualifications. t need not go into the represent himself on behalf of the people details of these various disqualifICations. and sit in this House along with us. That sort of thing we are all interested in and that is the Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Sir, many things purpose why this amending Bill has been were said about the non-serious candidates. brought. How to eliminate non-serious candidates is definitely a problem because in my home Sir. regarding the registration of parties, town in Belgaum, for an Assembly election one or two political parties have resisted. I do there were more than 3000 candidates and not know, the House may realise or under- it was very difficult for the Election Commis- stand or think as to why these two political sion to give them symbols. and all sorts of parties are resisting for registration of politi- symbols were given. sticks and shoes and cal parties. As a matter of fact, every political what not, because they could not find sym- party is required to be registered under the bols. (Interruptions) I appreciate what the Symbols (Reservation and Allotment) Rules han. Members said that we must find some 1968. Every political party is required to do it. solution to eliminate those people who cre- Now, in the present amending Bill, we are ate complications rather than help and defining a political party for a purpose. All assist for the smooth election process. But sorts of political parties are there in our how do we do that? Suggestions came as to countty, political parties who believe in ex- why not raise the deposit money to Rs. ploiting the weaker sections, political parties 10,000/- or As. 5000/-. who with a sheer small number of organised strength can try to create disruption in the AN HON. MEMBER: Do that. productive activities of this country and development activities of the country. There SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Definitely are political parties which, though not com- you say • do that'. But nobody openly comes munar by name are communal. The hon. forward to say that. Suppose there is a Member who spoke from that side about his serious candidate who wants to fight elec- State. Names are very national. labels are tions and who is really economically poor very brand labels, very dignified labels but and is really popular in his constituency. 00 their content is comm una!. There are parties you want to prevent him because of this which are really communa(":The intention is. measure? should we allow these parties to exploit the democratic process in this country for their SHAt KAMAL CHAUDHARY ( Hoshiar- communal gains and ends and to create pur): Sir, it is not clear. The person who disunity and dissenston in the country? No, cannot poll votes must be put behind the ~ we should not allow that. But it is also true bars. put under rigorous imprisonment and that we should not drive them back to the wall charged As 1 lakh as a penalty. He is holding and prevent them from entering into the this country and the democracy to ransom. mainstream of national life. The purpose of That ;s the way to prevent him. the Bill today is to attract them, to persuade them to join the mainstream of national life MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: How can you and forget their comm unal, religious, funda- say that before? The question of polling 10 mentalist attitude in the entire process of per cent votes will come afterwards only. election.

( Interruptions) I need not go into these things because many of my colleagues on this side have SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Of course repliatl to various points made by the other I do not share the views c:A the hon. Member. side. Much more, the Prime Minister has What I say is, we must do everything in this given the political philosophy on which we 109 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) RBpTesentation 110 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) BiR have brought this Bill. Acharia,ShriBasudeb

One thing about the youth of this ooun- Agarwal, Shri Jai Prakash try. From this side on behaH of all of us, the Prime MiniSter has paid very glowing tribute Akhtar Hasan, Shri to the youth of this nation. The future of this oountry depends on them. They are the Alkha Ram, Shri people who will really shape the unity and integrity of the oountry . let us give tribute to Anand Singh. Shri the young Prime Minister of ours who has realised the strength, the ability,1he quality, Ansari, Shri Abdul Hannan the honesty and the integrity of the modem youth who will definitely save this country Ansari, Shri Z.R. from dissension and division, as certain political parties are interested in creating Antony, Shri P .A. problems in the democratic process of this country. Appalanarasimham, Shri P.

Sir, with these words, I should say, let us Arunachalam, Shri M. not divide ourselves, as far as the major aspects of the Amendment Bills are con- Athithan, Shri R. Dhanuskodi cerned. because they are really going to strengthen the forces of democracy. Let us Awasthi, Shri Jagdish not divide ourselves on this. I wish that the I House adopts these Bills unanimously. Azad, Shri Ghulam Nabi

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Before I put Baghel, Shri Pratapsinh the motion for consideration of the Bill to vote, I would like to say that this being a Bagun Sumbrui, Shri Constitution (Amendment) Bill, voting has to be by diviSIOn. Let the Lobbies be cleared- Bairagi, Shri Balkavi

Bairwa, Shri Banwari Lal The Lobbies have been cleared Baitha, Shri 0.1... The questions is: Bajpai, Dr. Rajendra, Kumari "That the Bill further to amend the constitution of India be taken into Bala Goud, Shri T. consideration. • Balaraman, Shri L The Lok Sabha divided Bali, Shrimati Vyjayanthimala 15.20 hr•. Banatwalla, Shri G.M DIvision No.8. AYES Banerjee, Kumari Mamata

Abbasi, Shri K.J. Barman, Shri Palas

Abdul Ghafoor, Shr; Basavaraj. Shri G.S. 111 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 Representation 112 Second Arndt) Bill & of People (Arndt) Bill

Basavarajeswari, Shrimati Chaturvedi, Shrimati Vidyavati

Basheer, Shn T. Chaudhary, Shri Manphool Singh

Basu, Shri Anil Chaudhry, Shri Kamal

Bhagat, Shri H.K.L Chavan, Shri Ashok Shankarrao

Bharat Singh, Shri Chavda. Shri Ishwarbhai K.

Bhardwaj, Shri Parasram Chidambaram, Shri P.

Bhoi, Dr. Krupasindhu Choudhari, Shrimati Usha

Bhoopathy, Shri G. Choudhary, Shn Jagannath

Bhosale, Shri Prataprao B. Choudhary, Shri Nandlal

Bhoye, Shri R. M. Choudhary, Shri Samar Brahma

Bhoye, Shri S.S. Chowdhary, Shri Saifuddin

Bhumij, Shri Haren Dalbir Singh, Shri

Bhuria, Shri Dileep Singh Dalwai, Shri Hussain

Birbal Shri Damor, Shri Somjibhai

Birendra Singh, Rao Dandavate, Prof. Madhu

Birinder Singh, Shri Das, Shri Anadi Charan

Biswas, Shri Ajoy Das, Shri Bipin Pal

Brahma Dun, Shri Das, Shri R.P.

Budania, Shri Narendra Das, Shri Sllt:iarsan

Buta Singh, S. Das Munsi, Shri Priya Ranjan

Chandrakar, Shri Chandulal Data, Shri Amal

Chandrasekhar, Shrimati M. Dennis. Shri N.

Chandrashekharappa, Shri T. V. Dec, Shri V. Kishore Chandra S.

Charles, Shri A. Deor'\, Shri Murli

Chatterjee, Shri Somnath Devit.Prof. Ch,andr~ ,Bhanu

Chaturvedi, Shri Naresh Chandra Dhariw~~ Shri Shant; 113 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 114 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

Dhillon, Dr. G.S. Gupta, Shri Janak Raj

Diga!. Shr; Radhakanta Guraddi. Shr; S. M.

Dighe. Shri Sharad Halder. Prof. M.R.

Digvijaya Singh. Shri Hannan Mullah, Shri

Dikshit. Shrimati Sheila Hansda. Shri Matilal

Dinesh Singh. Shri Harpal Singh. Shri

Dongaonkar, Shri Sahebrao Patll Iyer. Shri V.S. Krishna

Dube, Shri Bhishma Deo Jadeja. Shr; D.P.

Engti. Shri Siren Singh Jaffar Sharief. Shri C.K

Gadgil, Shri V. N. Jagannath Prasad, Shri

Gadhvi. Shri S.K. Jain. Shri Nihal Sing'"

Gaikwad, Shri Udaysingrao Jain, Shri Virdhi Chander

~, Gamit. Shri CD. Janarthanan, Sflri Kadambur

Gandhi. Shri Rajiv Jangde. Shri Khelan Ram

Ganga Ram, Shri Jatav, Shri" Kammodllal

Gavit~ Shri Manikrao Hodlya Jeevarathinam. Shn R.

Gehlot, Shri Ashok Jena, Shri Chintamani

Ghosal. Shri Debt Jhansi Lakshmi, Shrimati N.P.

Ghosh, Shri Simal Kant; Jhikram, Shri M. L.

Ghosh Gowsami, Shrimatl Bibha Jitendra Prasada. Shri

Gohil, Shri G.B. Jitendra Singh, Shn

Gamango, Shri Giridhar Jujhar Singh, Shri

Goswami, Shri Dinesh Kalpana Devi, Dr. T.

Gowda, Shri H.N. Nanje Kamal Nath, Shri

Guha, Dr . Phulrenu Kamble. Shri Arvind Tulshiram

Gupta. Shri Indrajit Kamla Kumari, Kumari 115 Conslitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 116 Second Amdt.) Bill & of Psople (Amdt.) BHI

Kamson. Prof. Meijinlung Mahajan. Shri Y.S.

Kaul. Shnmati Sheila Mahendra Singh. Shri

Kaushal, Shri Jagan Nath Makwana, Shri Narsinh

Keyur Shushan. Shri Malik Shri Purna Chandra

Khan, Shri Aslam Sher Mallick, Shri Lakshman

Khan, Shri Khurshid Alam Malviya. Shri 8apulal

Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (jhunjhunu) Mane, Shri Murlidhar

Khan, Shri Zulfiquar Ali Manorama Singh, Shrimati

Khattri, Shri Nirmal Masudal Hossain, Shri Syed

Khirhar, Shri R.S. Mavani, Shrimati Patel Ramaben Ramjibhai

Kidwai, Shrimati Mohsina Meena, Shri Ram Kumar

Kinder La! Shri Mehta, Shri Haroobhai

Kisku, Shri Prithvi Chand Meira Kumar, Shrimati

Kolandaivelu, Shri P. Mishra, Shri G. S.

Krishna Kumar, Shri S. Mishra, Shri Ram Nagina

Krishna Singh, Shri Mishra, Shri Shripati \ Kshirsagar, Shrimati Kesharbai Mishra, Shri Umakant

Kuchan, Shri Gangadhar S. Mishra, Shri Vijay Kumar

Kujur, Shri Maurice Misra, Shri Nityananda

Kuppuswamy, Shri C.K. Misra, Shri Satyagopal

Kurien, Prof. P.J. Modi, Shri Vishnu

Lachchhi Ram, Shri Mohanty, Shri 8rajamohan

Law, Shri Asutosh More, Prof. Ramkrishna lowang, Shri Wangpha Motilal Singh, Shri

Madhuree Singh, Shrimati Mukherjee, Shrimati Gaeta

Mahabir Prasad. Shri Mundackal, Shri George Joseph 117 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24. 1910 (SAKA) Representation 118 Sscond Arndt.) 8111 & of People (Arndt.) BiR

Murmu. Shri Sidha Lal Paswan, Shri Ram Bhagat

Murthy, Shri M.V. Chandrashekara Patel, Dr. A.K.

Murty, Shri Bhattam Srirama Patel, Shri Ahmed M.

Mushran, Shri Ajay Patel, Shri C. 0

Muttemwar, Shri Vilas Patel, Shri G.I

Naik, Shri Shantaram Patel, Shri Mohanbhai

Naikar, Shri O.K. Patel, Shri Shanti Lal

Natwar Singh, Shri K. Patel, Shri U.H.

Nawal Prabhakar, Shrimati Sunderwati Pathak, Shri Ananda

Neekhra, Shri Rameshwar Pathak, Shri Chandra Kishore

Negi, Shri Chandra Mohan Singh Patil, Shri Balasaheb Vikhe

Odeyar, Shri Channaiah Patil, Shri O.B

Oraan, Shrimati Sumati Patil. Shn H.B.

Pande, Shri Raj Mangal Patil, Shri Prakash V.

Pandey, Shn Damodar Patil, Shri Shivraj V.

Pandey, Shri Kali Prasad Patil, Shri Uttamrao

Pandey, Shri Madan Patil, Shri Veerendra

Pandey, Shri Manoj Patil, Shri Vijay N.

Panigrahi, Shri Chintamani Patnaik, Shrimati Jayanti

Pamgrahi, Shn Sriballav Pattnaik. Shri Jagannath

Panika, Shri Ram Pyare Pencnalliah, Shri P

Panja, Shri A.K. Peruman, Dr. P. Valla I

Pant, Shri K.C. Pilot Shri Rajesh

Panwar, Shri Satyanarayan Poojary, Shri Janardhana

Parashar. Prof. Narain Chand Potdukhe, Shri Shantaram

Pardhi, Shri Keshaorao Pradhan, Shri K.N 119 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Repl8sentatiorl 120 Second Amdt) BiN & of People (Amdt.JBiII

Pradhani, Shri K. Ranga, Prof. N.G.

Prakash Chandra, Shri Ranganath, Shri K.H

Puran Chandra, Shri Rao, Shri A.J.V. B. Maheswara

Purohit, Shri Banwari Lal Rao, Dr. G. Vijaya Rama

P urushothaman, Shri Vakkom Rao, Shri J. Chokka

Qureshi, Shri Aziz Rao Shri J. Vengala

Rai, Shri I. Rama Rao, Shri P.V. Narasimha

Rai, Shri Raj Kumar Rao, Shri Srihari

Rai, Shri Ramdeo Rao, Shri V. Krishna

Raj Karan Singh, Shri Rao, Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara

Rajeshwaran, Dr. V. Rath, Shri Somnath

Rajhans, Dr. G.S. Rathawa, Shri Amarsinh

Raju, Shri Vijaya Kumar Rathod, Shri Uttam

Ram, Shri Ram Ratan Ratna, Shri N. Venkata

Ram, Shri Ramswaroop Raut, Shri Shola

Ram AWaGh Prasad, Shri Ravani, Shri Navin

Ram Ohan, Shri Rawat. Shri Harish

Ram Prakash, Ch. Rawat, Shri KamJa Prasad

Ram Samujhawan, Shri Rawat, Shri Prabhu La!

Ram Singh, Shri Reddi, Shri C. Madhav

Ramachandran, Shri MullappaJIy Reddy, Shri D. N.

Ramaiah, Shri B.B. Reddy. Shri K. Ramachandra

Ramaiah, Shri Sode Reddy, Shri P. Manik

Ramamurthy, Shri K. Reddy, Shri S. JapJ

Rampal Singh, Shri Riyan, Shri Baju Ban

Rana Vir Singh, Shri Roy, Dr. Sudhir 121 Ccnstitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 122 Seoond Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Saha. Shri Ajit Kumar Sharma, Shri Nand Kishore

Saha, Shri Gadadhar Sharma, Shri Nawal Kishore

Sahi, Shrimati Krishna Sharma. Shri Pratap Bhanu

San, Shri Ebrahim Sulaiman Sher/ani. Shri Saleem t

Salah uddin, Shn Shingda, Shri D.B

Sambu, Shri C. Shlvendra Bahadur Singh. Shri

Sangma, Williamson Slddiq, Shri HafiZ Mohd.

Sankhawar, Shri Ashkaran Sidnal, Shn S.B.

Sankata Prasad, Dr. Singaravadivel, Shri S.

Sa!1tosh Kumar Singh. Shri Singh, Shri K. N.

Sanyal. Shri Mantk Singh, Shri KamJa Prasad

Satyendra Chandra. Shri Singh. Shri Krishna Pratao I Sathe, Shri Vasant Singh, Shri lal ViJay Pratap

SayGcd, Shri P.M Singh, Shri N. Tombi

Sen, Shri Bholanath Singh. Shri S.D.

Sethi, Shri Ananta Prasad Singh Deo, Shn K.P.

Sethi, Shri P.C. Sinha, Shnmati Kishori

Shah, Shri Anoopchand Sinha. Shn Sotyendra Narayan

Shahabuddin. Syed Sodi, Shri Mankuram

Shailesh Dr. B.l. Solankl, Shri Kalyan Singh

Shaktawat, Prof. Nirmala Kumari Somu, Shri N.V.N.

S hankarial Shri Soren, Shri Harihar

Shankaranand Shri B. SOZ, Prof. Saifuddin

Shanmugam. Shri P. Sreenivasa Prasad Shn V.

Shanti Oevi. Shrimati Sukhbuns K~ur. Shrimati

Sharma Shri C,hiranji laJ Sultanpuri. Shri K.D 123 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 124 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Suman, Shri R.P. Vanakar, Shri Punam Chand Mithabhai

Sunadararaj, Shri N. Venkatesan Shri P.R.S.

Sunder Singh, Ch. Verma, Shrimati Usha

Surendra Pal Singh, Shri Vijayaraghavan, Shri V.S.

Suryawanshi, Shri Narsing \lir Sen, Shri

Swell, Shri G.G. Vyas, Shri.Girdhari Lal

Tandel, Shri Gopal K. Wasnik, Shri Mukul

Tapeshwar Singh, Shri Yadav, Shri Mahabir Prasad

Thakkar, Shrimati Usha Yadav, Shri R.N.

Thara Dev;, Kumari D.K. Yaaav, Shri Ram Singh

Thomas, Prof. K.V. Yadav, Shri Shyam Lal

Thomas, Shri Thampan Yadav, Shri Vijoy Kumar

Thorat, Shri Bhausaheb Yadava, Shri Bal Ram Singh

Thungon, Shri P.K. Yadava, Shri D.P.

Tigga, Shri Simon Yashpal Singh, Shri

Tilakdhari Singh, Shri Yazdani, Dr. Golam

T.raky, Shri Piyus Yogesh, Shri Yogeshwar Prasad

Tomar, Shrimati Usha Rani Zainal Abedin, Shri

Tripathi, Shrimati Chandra Zainul Basher, Shri

Tripathi, Dr. Chandra Shekhar MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Subject to TulsirafTl, Shri V. correction-, the result of the division is:

Tyagi, Shri Dharamvir Singh Ayes 382

Van, Shri Deep Narain Noes Nil

-The following Members also recorded their votes for Ayes:

Shrimati Abida Ahmed, Saniashree Gurudas Kamat, R.S. Sparrow, Ajitsinh Dabhi, Mana- ranjan Bhakta. Swami Prasad Singh, K. Mohandas, Sitaram J. Gavali, Ch~udhary Raghuraj Singh. Shri Kalicharan Sakargaym, Dr. V.. Venkatesh and Shri Abdul Hamid. 125 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 126 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) BUI

The motion is carried by a majority of the Antony. Shri P.A. total membership of the House and by a majority of not less than two-thirds of the Appalanarasimham. Shri P. Members present and voting. Arunachalam, Shri M. The motion was adopted Athithan, Shri R. Dhanuskodi MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now we shall take up Clause by Clause considera- Awasthi~ Shri ~agdish tion of the Bill. Now. we are taking up Clause 2. There is no amendment to Clause 2. Azad. Shri Ghulam Nabi

Before I put Clause 2 to the vote of the Baghel, Shri Pratapsinh House, I would like to say that this being a Constitution (Amendment) Bill. voting has to Bagun Sumbrui, Shri be by division. Bairagi, Shri Balkavi The Lobbies have been already cleared. Bairwa, Shri Banwari La!

The que&tion is: Baitha, Shri D.L.

"That Clause 2 stand part of the Bill." Bajpai, Dr. Rajendra K'umari

The Lok Sabha divided Bala Gaud, Shri T.

15.22 hrs. Balaraman, Shri l.

Division No.9 Bali, Shrimati Vyjayanthimaia AYES Banatwalla, Shri G.M. Abbas;. Shri K.J. Banerjee, Kumari MarT'ata Abdul Ghafoor, Shri Barman, Shrr Palas Abdul Hamid, Shr; Basavarajeswari. Shrimati Acharia, Shri easudeb 8asheer, Shri T. Agarwal, S'"'li Jai Prakash Basu, Shri Anil Ahmed, Shrimati Abida Bhagat, Shri H.K.l. Akhtar Hsan, Shri Bhak.1a. Shri Manoranjan Afkha Ram, Shri Bharat Singh. Shri Anand Singh. Shri

Ansari, Shri Abdul Hannan Bhardwaj, Shri Parasram

Ansari. Shri Z. R. Bhai, Dr. Krupasindhu 127 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 128 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Bhoopathy, Shri G. Choudhar~', Shri Jagannath

Bhosale, Shri Prataprao B. Choudhary, Shri Nandlal

Bhoye, Shri A.M. Choudhury, Shri Samar Brahma

Bhoye. Shri S.S. Chowdhary, Shri SaHuddin

Bhumij, Shri Haren Dabhi, Shri Ajitsinh

Bhuria, Shri Dileep Singh Dalbir Singh, Shri

Birbal, Shri Dalwai, Shri Hussain

Birendra Singh, Rao Damor, Shri Somjibhai

Birinder Singh, Shri Danaavate, Prof. Madhu - ,~ Biswas, Shri Ajoy Das, Shri Anadi Charan

Brahma Dun, Shri Oas, Shri Bioin Pal

Budania, Shri Narendra Das, Shri A.P.

Buta Singh, S. Oas, Shri Sudarsan

Chandrakar, Shri Chandulal Das MUr'lsi, Shri Priya Ranjan

Chandrasekhar, Shrimati M. Datta, Shri Amal

Chandrashekharappa, Shri T.V. Dennis, Shri N.

C~arles Shri A. Deo, Shri V. Kishor~ Chandra S.

Chatterjee, Shri Scmnath OH ~. Shri Murli

new;, Prof. C~andra Bhanu Chaturvedi, Shri Naresh Chandra ;)

Chaturvedi, Shrimati Vidyavati Ohaf Iwal, Shri Shanti

Chaudttary, Shri ManphooJ Singh Dhillon, Dr. G.S.

Chaudhry, Shri Kamal Digal. Shri Radhakanta

Chavan, Shri Ashok Sankar Rao. Dighe, Shri Sharad

Chavda, Shr; Ishwarbhai K. Digvija}'a Singh. Shri

Chidambaram, Sori P. Dikshit, Shrimati Sheila

Choudhari, Shrimati Usha Dines Singh, Shr4 129 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24.1910 (SAKA) Representation 130 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Dongaonkar. Shri Sahebrao PaHI Han~da. Shri Matilal

Dube. Shri Bhishma Oeo Harpal Singh. Shri

Engti. Shri Siren Singh Iyer, Shri V.S. Krishna

Gadgil, Shri V.N. Jadeja, Shri D.P.

Gadhvi, Shri B.K. Jaffar Shanef, Shri C.K.

Gaikwad, Shri Udaysingrao Jagannath Prasad, Shri

Gamlt, Shri C.D. Jain, Shri Nihal Singh

Gandhi, Shri Rajlv Jain, Shir Virdhl Chander

Ganga Ram, Shri Janarthanan, Shri Kadambur

Gavit, Shri Manikrao Hodlya Jangde, Shri Khelan Ram

Gehlot, Shri Ashok Jatav, Shri Kammodilal

Jeevarathinam, Shri R. , Ghosal, Shri Debi Jena, Shri Chintamani

Ghosh, Shri Bimal Kanti Jhansi Lakshmi, Shrimati N.P.

Ghosh Goswami, Shrimati Blbha Jhikram, Shri M.L.

Gohil Shri G.B. Jitendra Prasada, Shri

Gomango, Shri Giridhar Jitendra Singh, Shti

Goswami, Shri Dinesh Jujhar Singh, Shri

Gowda, Shri H.N. Nanja Kabuli, Shri Abdul Rashid

Kalpana Devi, Dr. T.

Guha, Dr. Phulrenu Kamal Nath, Shri

Gupta, Shri Indrajit Kamat. Shri Gurudas

Gupta. Shri Janak Raj Kamble. Shri Arvind Tulshiram

Guraddi. Shri S.M. Kamla Kumari. Kumari

Halder. Prof. M.R. Kamson. Prof. Meijinlung

Hannan Mollah. Shri Kaul. Shrimati Sheila 131 ConstitutiDn (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 132 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bil;

Kaushal, Shri Jagan Nath Mahendra Singh, Shri

KeyurBhushan.Shn Makwana. Shri Narsinh

Khan, Shri Aslam Shar Malik, Shri Puma Chandra

Khan, Shri Khurshid Alam Mallick, Shri Lakshman

Khan. Shri Mohd.. Ayub (Jtwnjhunu) Malviya, Shri Bapulal

Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Udhampur) Mane, Shri Murlidhar

Khan, Shri Zulfiquar Ali Manorama Singh, Shnmatl

Khattri, Shri Nirmal Masudal Hossain, Shri Syed

Khirhar. Shri R.S. Mavam, Shrimati Patel Ramaben Ramjibhai

Kidwai. Shrimati Mohsina Meena. Shri Ram Kumar

Kinder LaI, Shn Mehta, Shn Haroobhai

Kisku, Shri Prithvi Chand Meira Kumar. Shrimati

Kolandaivelu, Shri P. Mishra. Shri G.S.

Krishna Kumar, Shri S. Mishra, Shri Ram Nagina

Krishna Singh. Shri Mishra. Shri Shripati

Kshirsagar, Shrimati Kesharbai Mishra, Shri Umakant.

Kuchan. Shri Gangadhar S. Mishra, Shri Vijay Kumar

Kujur, Shri Maurice Misra, Shri Nityananda

Kuppuswamy, Shri C.K. Misra, Shri Satyagopal

Kumen, Prof. P .J. Modi, Shri Vishnu

Lachchhi Ram, Shri Mohandas. Shri K. law, Shri Asutosh Mohanty. Shri Brajamohan

Lowang, Shri Wangpha More, Prof. Ramkrishna

Madhuree Singh, Shrimati MOlilal Singh, Shri

Mahabir Prasad, Shri Mukherjee. Shrimati Gaeta

Mahajan. Shri Y.S. Mundackal. Shri George Joseph 133 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 134 Second Amdt.) Bill & of Peopls (Amdt.) Bill

Murmu, Shri Sidha Lal Patel, Dr. A.K.

Murthy, Shri M.V. Chandrashekara Pate, Shri Ahmed M.

Murty, Shri Shaua!!' Srirama Patel, Shri C.D.

Mushran, Shri Ajay Patel, Shri G.I.

Muttemwar, Shri Vilas Patel, Shri Mohanbhi

Naik, Shri Shantaram Patel, Shri Shantilal

Naikar, Shri D.K. Patel, Shri U.H.

Natwar Singh, Shri K. Pathak, Shri Ananda

Nawal Prabhakar. Shrimati Sunderwati Pathak, Shn Chandra Kishore

Neekhra, Shri Rameshwar Patil, Shn BaJasaheb Vikhe

Negi, Shri Chandra Mohan Singh Patil, Shri D.B.

Odeyar, Shn Channaiah Patil, Sri H-B.

Oraon, Shrimati ~umati Patil, Shri Prakash V. .~.

Pandey, Shri Damodar Patil, Shri Uttamrao

Pandey, Shri Madan Patil, Shri Veerendra

Pandey, Shri Manoj Patil, Shri Vijay N.

Panigrahi, Shri Chintamani Patnaik, Shrimati Jayanti

Panigrahi, Shri Sriballav Pattnaik, Shri Jagannath

Panika, Shri Ram Pyare Penchalliah, Shri P.

Panja, Shri A.K. Peruman, Dr. P. Valla I

Pant, Shri K.C. Pilot, Shri RaJesh

Panwar, Shri Satyanarayan Poojary, Shri Janardhana

Parashar, Prof. Narain Chand Potdukhe, Shri Shantaram

Pardhi, Shri Keshaorao Pradhan, Shri K.N-

Pawan, Shri Ram Bhagat Pradhani, Shri K. 135 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 136 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Prakash Chandra, Shri Rana Vir Singh, Shri

Puran Chandra, Shri R.:;,.nga, Prof. N.G.

Purohit, Shri Banwari l.al Ranganath, Shri KH.

Purushothaman, Shri Vakkom Rao, Shri A.J. V.B. Maheswara

Qureshi, Shri Az;z Rao, Dr. G. VIJaya Rama

Raghuraj Singh, Chaudhary Rao, Shri J. Chokka

Rai, Shri I. Rama Rao, Shri J. Vengala

Rai. Shri Raj Kumar Rao. Shri P. V. Narasimha

Rai, Shri Ramdeo Rao, Shri Srihari

Raj Karan Singh, Shri Rao. Shri V. Knshna

Rajeshwaran, Dr. V. Rao, Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara

Rajhans. Dr. G.S. Rath, Shn Somnath

Raju, Shri Vijaya Kumar Rathawa, ShTi Amarsinh

J1am, Shri Ram Ratan Rat hod , Shri Uttam

Ravi. Shri Ramswaroop Ratnam, Shri N. Venkata

Ram Awadh Prasad. Shri Raut, Shri Bhola

Ram Ohan, Shri Ravani, ShT; Navin

I Ram Prakash, Ch. Rawat, Shri Harish

Ram Sa'11ujhawan, Shri Rawat. Shr; Kamla Prasad

Ram Singh. Shri Rawat. Shri Prabhu Lai

Ramachandran, Shri Mullappally Reddi, Shri C. Madhav

Ramaiah, Shn B.B. Reddy, Shr; B.N.

Ramaiah, Shr; Sode Reddy. Shri D.N.

Ramamurthy, Shri K. Reddy. Shri K. Ramachandra

Ramashray Prasad Singh, Sh-ri Reddy. Shri P. Manik. .Rampal Singh, Shri Reddy. Shr; S. JaipaJ 137 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 138 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Rlyan, Shri Baju Ban Sharma, Shri Chiranji Lal

Saha, Shri Ajit KlJmar Sharma, Shri Nand Kishore

Saha. Shri Gadadhar Sharma, Shri Nawai Kishore '. Sahl, Shrimati Krishna Sharma, Shri Pratap 8hanu

Sait, Shri Ebrahim Sulaiman Shervani, Shri Saleem I.

Sakargaym, Shri Kalicharan Shingda, Shri O.B.

Salahuddin, Shri Shivendra Bahadur Singh, Shri

Sambu, Shn C. Siddiq. Shri Hafiz Mohd.

Sangma. Shri Williamsen Sidnal. Shri S. B.

Sar'lkhawar, Shri Ashkaran Singaravadivel, Shri S.

Sankata Prasad, Dr. Singh, Shri K.N.

Satyendra Chandra, Shri Singh, Shri Kamla Prasad

Sathe, Shri Vas ant Singh, Shri Krishna Pratap

Sayeed, Shri P.M. Singh, Shri Lal Vijay Pratap

Sen, Shri Bholanath Singh, Shri N. Tombi

Sethi, Shri Ananta Prasad Singh, Shri S.D.

Sethi, Shri P.C. Singh, Shri Santosh Kumar

Shah, Shri Anoopchand Singh Oeo, Shri K.P.

Shahabuddin, Shri Syed Sinha, Shrimati Kishori

Shailesh, Dr. B.L. Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan

Shaktawat, Prof. NirmaJa Kumari Sodi, Shri Mankuram

Shaminder Singh, Shri Solanki, Shri Kalyan Singh

Shankar Lal, Shri Somu, Shri N.V.N.

Shankaranand, Shri B. Soren, Shri Harihar

Shaomugam, Shri P. Soz. Prof. Saifuddin

Shant; O~vi. Shrimati Sparrow, Shri R.S. 139 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 140 Second Amdt) BiN & of Peop/s (Arndt.) Bill

Sreenivasa Prasad, Shri V. Tulsiram, Shri V.

Sukhbuns Kaur. Shrimati Tyagi, Shri Dharamvir Singh

Sultanpur. Shri K.D. Tytler, Shri Jagdish

Suman. Shri R.P~ Vanakar, Shri Punam Chand Mithabhai

Sundararaj. Shri N. Venkatesan, Shri P.R.S.

Sunder Singh. Cn. Verma. Shrirnati Usha

Surendra Pal Singh. Shri Vijayaraghavan. Shri V.S.

Suryawanshi. Shri Narsing Vjr Sen. Shri

Swami Prasad Smgh, Shn Vyo~, Shri Girdhari Lal

Swell. Shri G_G. Wasnik. Shri Mukul

Tandel. Shri Gopal K Yadav, Shri Mahabir Prasad

T apeshwar Singh, Stvi Yadav. Shri R.N.

Thakkar, Shrimati Usha Yadav. Shri Ram Singh

Thara Devi. Kumari D.K. Yadav, Shri Shyam Lal

Thomas, Prof. K. V. Yadav. Shri Vijoy Kukar

Thomas, Shri Thampan Yadava, Shri Bal Ram Singh

Thorat, Shri Bhausaheb Yadava, Shri D.P.

Thungon, Shri P.K. Yashpal Singh, Shri

T I9ga, Shri Simon Yazdani, Dr. Golam

Tilakdhari Singh. Shri Yogesh. Shri Yogeshwar Prasad

Tiraky, Shri Piyus Zainal Abedin, Shri

Tomar, Shrimati Usha Rani Zainul Basher, Shri

Tripathi. Shrimati Chandra MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: SUbject to Tripathi. Dr. Chandra Shekhar correction,* the result of the division is:

*The following Members also recorded their votes for AYES : Shri Deep Narain Van. Shri G.S. Basavaraju. Shri Kali Prasad Pandey, Shri Sitaram J. Gavali. Shri Manik Sanyat and Dr. Sudhir Roy. 141 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAY.ANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 142 Sscond Amdt.) Bill & of Peopls (Arndt) Bill

Ayes ... 393 SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, I beg to move: Noes ... Nil "That the Bill, as amended, be The motion is carried by a majority of the passed." total membership of the Ho~se and by a majority of not less than two-thirds of the MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Already. the Members present and voting. Lobbies are cleared. Therefore, I put the motion to the vote of the House. The motion was adopted The questIOn is: Clause 2 was added to the Bill "That the Bill. as amended, be Clause 1 (Short Title) passed."

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now we are The Lok Sabha divided: taking up Clause -;. 15.15 brs. Shri Shankaranaod. Division No. 10 Amendment made: AYES Page 1, line 3.- Abbasi, Shri KJ. for "(Sixty-second Amendmentr substitute-- Abdul Gafoor, Shn

-(Sixty-first Amendment)- (1) Abdul Hamid, Shri

(Shri B. ShaNKARANAND) Acharia, Shri Basudeb

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques- Agarwal. Shri Jai Prakash tion is: Ahmed. Shrimati Abida ''That Clause 1, as amended, stand part of the Bill." Akhtar Hasan. Shri

The motion was adopted Alkha Ram, Shri

Clause 1. as amended, was added to the Anand Singh, Shri Bill Ansari. Shri Abdul Hannan MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The question is: Ansan, Shri Z.R.

"That the Enacting Formula and Title Antony, Shri P.A. stand part of the Bill." Appalanarasimham. Shri P. The motion was adopted Arunachalam Shri M. The Enacting Formula and Title were added to the Bill. Athithan, Shri R. Dhanuskodi 143 Constitution (Sixt)'- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 144 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Awasthi, Shri Jagdish Bhumij, Shri Haren

Azad, Shri Ghulam Nabi Bhuria, Shri Dileep Singh

8aghel, Shri Pratapslnh Birbal, Shri

Begun Sumbrui, Shri Birendra Singh. Rao

8airagi, Shri Balkavl Binnder Singh, Shri '. Bairwa, Shn Banwari Lal Biswas, Shri Aioy

Baitha, Shri D.l. Brahma Dutt, Shri

Bajpal, Dr. Rajendra Kumari Budania, Shri Narendra

Bala Goud, Shri T. 8uta SIr.gh, S.

Balaraman, Shri L. Chandrakar, Shri Chandulal

Bali, Shrimati Vyjayanthimala Chandrasekhar, Shrimati M.

Banatwalla. Shri G. M. Chandrashekharappa, Shri T. V.

Banerjee, Kumari Mamata Chadas, Shri A.

Basavarajeswari, Shnmati Chatterjee, Shri Somnath

Basavaraju, Shri G.S. Chaturvedi, Shri Naresh Chandra

Basheer, Shn T. Chaturvedi, Shrimati Vidyavati

Basu, Shri Anil Chaudhary, Shri Manphool Singh

Bhagat, Shri H.K.L. Chaudhry, Shri Kamal

Bhakta, Shri Manoranjan Chavan, Shri Ashok Shanker Rao

Bharat Singh, Shri Chavda, Shri Ishwarbhai K.

Bhardwaj, Shn Parasram Chldambaram, Shri P.

Bhot, Dr. Krupasindhu Choudhari, Shrimati Usha

Bhoopathy, Shri G. Choudhari, Shri Jagannath

Bhosale. Shri Prataprao B. Choudhary, Shri Nandlal

Bhoye, Shri A.M. Choudhury, Shri Samar Brahma

Bhoye, Shri S.S. Chowdhary, Shri Saifuddin 145 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 146 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Dabhi. Shri Ajitsinh Gadhvi, Shri B.K.

Oalbtr Singh, Shri Gaikwad, Shri Udaysingrao

Dalwai, Shri Hussajn Gamit, Shri C.D.

Damor, Shri Somjibhai Gandhi, Shri Rajiv

Dandavate. Prof. Madhu Ganga Ram, Shri

Das, Shri Anadi Charan Gavit, Shri Manikrao Hodlya

Das, Shri Bipin Pal Geholt, Shri Ashok

Oas, Shri R.P. Ghosh, Shri 8imal Kanti

Das, Shri Sudarsan Ghosh Goswami, Shrimati Bibha

DeS Munsi, Shri Priya Ranjan Gohil, Shri G.B.

Datta, Shri Arnal Gomango, Shri Giridhar

Dennis, Shri N. Goswaml, Shri Dlnesh

Oeo, Shri V. Kishore Chandra S. Gowda, Shri H.N. Nanje

Deora, Shri Murti Guha, Dr. Phulrenu

Devi, Prof. Chandra Bhanu Gupta, Shri Indrajit

Dhariwal, Shri Shant: Gupta, Shri Janak Raj

Dhillon, Dr. G.S. GlJraddi, Shri S.M.

Digal, Shri Radhakanta Halder, Prof. M.R.

Dighe, S;'1r! Sharad Hannan Mollah, Shri

Digvijava Singh, Shn Hasda, Shri Matilal

Dikshit, Shrimati Sheila Harpa: Singh, Shri

Dines" Singh, Shri Iyer. Shri \/.S. Krishna

Dongaonkar, Shri Saheorao Patil Jadeja, Shri D.P

Dube, Sori chishrna Deo Jaffar Sharief, Shri C.K.

Engti, Shr, Biren Singh Jagannath Prasad, Shri

Gadgil, Shri V.N. Jain, Shri Nihal Singh 147 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 148 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Jain, Shri Virdhi Challder Khattri. Shri Nirmal

Janarthanan, Shri Kadambur Khirhar, Shri R.S.

Jangde. Shri Khelan Ram Kidllliai. Shrimati Mohsina

Jatav, Shri Kammodilal Kisku, Shri Prithvi Chand

JeevarathJnam, Shri R. Kolandaivelu. Shri P.

Jena, Shri Chintamanl Krishna Kumar, Shri S.

Jhansl !...akshmi Shrimati N.P. Krishna Singh, Shri

Jhikram, Shn M.L. Kshirsagar. Shrimati Kesharbai

Jitendia Prasada, Shri Kuchan, Shri Gangadhar S.

Jitendra Singh, Shn Kujur, Shri Maurice

Jujhar Singh, Shri Kuppuswamy, Shri C.K.

Kabuli, Shri Abdul Rashid Kurien, Prof. P.J.

Kalpana Devi, Dr. T. Lachchhi Ram. Shri

Kamal Nath, Shri Law. Shri As~tosh

Kamat. Sh!"i Gurudas Lowang, Shri Wangpha

Kamble. Shri Arvind Tulshiram Madhuree Singh, Shrimati

Kamla Kumari, Kumari Mahabir Prasad, Shri

Kamson. Prof. Meijinlung MahaJan. Shri Y.S.

Kaul. Shrimati Sheila Mehendra Singh. Shri

Kaushal, Shri Jagan Nath Makwana, Shri Narsinh

Keyur Shushan. Sr.ri Malik, Shri Purna Chandra

Khan. Shri .Aslam Sher Mallick. Shri Lakshman

Knan. Shci Khurshid Alam Malv:ya, Shri Sapulal

Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Jhunjhun:J) Mane, Shri Murlidhar

Khan. Shri, Mohd. Ayub (Udhampur) Manorama Singh, Silrimati

Khan. Shri Zuffiquar Ali Masudal Hossain, Shri Syed 149 Constitution (Sixty~ AC:aRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Represe:Jtation 150 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdi.) Bill

Mavani, Shrimati Patel Ramaben Ramjibhai Nawal Prabhakar. Shrimati Sunderwati

Meena. Shri Ram Kumar Neeknra, Shri Ramtlshwar

Mehta, Shri Haroo~hai Negi, Snri Chandra Mohan Singh

Meira Kumar. Shrimati Odeyar. Sl1ri Channaiah

Mishra, Shri G.S. Oraon, Shrimati Sumati

Mlshra, Shri Ram Nagina Fande, Shri Raj Ma'lgal

Mishra, Shri Shripati Pandey, Shri Damodar

Mishra, Shri Umakant Pandey, Shr; Manoj

Mishra, Shri Vijay Kumar Panigrahi, Shn Chlntarnani

M;sra. Shn Nityananda Panigrahi, Shr; Sriballav

Misra .. Shri Satyagopal Panika, Shri Ram Pyare

Modi, Shri Vishnu Panja, Shri A K.

Mohandas, Shri K. Pant, Shri K.C.

Mohanty, Shri Brajamohan Panwar, Shri Satyanarayan

More, Prof. Ramkrishna Parashar, Prof. Narain Chand

Motilal Singh, Shri Pardhi, Shri Keshaorao

Mukherjee, 5hrimati Geeta Paswan, Sl1r; Ram Bhagat

Mundackal, Shri George Joseph Patel. Dr. A.K.

Murmu, Shri Sidha Lal Patel, Shri Ahmed M.

Murthy, Shri M.V. Chandrashekara Patel, Shri C.D.

Murty, Shri Bhattam Srirama Patel. Shri G.1.

Mushran, Shri Ajay Patel, Shri Mohanbhai

Muttemwar. Shri Vilas Patel, Shri Shantilal

Naik, Shii Shantaram Patel, Shri U. H.

Naikar. Shri D.K. Patel, Shri Ananda

Natwar Singh, Shri K. Pathak, Shri Chandra Kishore 151 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 RepresentatiQn 152 Sp,cond Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Patil, Shri Balasaheb Vikhe Raj Karan Singh, Shri

Patil, Shri D.S. Rajeshwaran, Dr. V.

Patil, Shri H.B. Rajhans, Dr. G.S.

Patil, Shri Prakash V. Raid, Shri Vijaya Kumar

Pari!. Shri Shlvraj \I. Ram, Shri Ram Ratan Ram, Shri Ramswaroop Patil, Shri Uttamrao Ram Awadh Prasad, Shri

PatH, Shri Veerendra Ram Dhan, Shn

PatiJ, Shri Vijay N. Ram Prakash, Ch.

Patnaik, Shnmati Jayanti Ram Sa~ujhawan, Shri

Pattanaik. Shri Jagannath Ram Sangh. Shri

Penchalliah, Shn P. Ramachandran, Shri Mullappally

Peruman, Dr. P. Vallal Ramaiah, Shri B.B.

Pilot, Shri Rajesh Ramamurthy, Shn K.

Poojary, Shri Janardhana Ramashray Prasad Singh. Shri

Potdukhe, Shri Shantaram Rana Vir Singh, Shri

Pradhan, Shri K.N. Ranga, Prof. N G.

Pradhani, Shri K. Ranganath, Shri K.H.

Prakash Chandra, Shri Rao, Shri A.J. V.B. Maheswara

Puran Chandra, Shri Rao, Dr. G. Vijaya Rama

Purohit, Shri 3anwari Lal Rao, Shrj J. Chokka

Purushothaman, Shri Vakkom Rao, Shri J. Vengala

Qureshi, Shn luiz Rao, Shri P.V. Narasimha

Raghuraj Singh, Chaudhary Aao, Shri Srihari

Rae, Shri, I. Rama Rao, Shri V. Krishna

Rai, Shri Raj Kumar Rao, Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara

Rao, Shri Ramdeo Rath, Shri Somnat~ 153 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 154 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Rathawa, Shri Amarsinh Satyendra Chandra, Shri

Rathod, Shri Uttam Sathe, Shri Vasant

Ratnam, Shri N Venkata Sayeed. Shri P.M.

~aut, Shri Bhola Sen, Shri Bholanath

Ravani, Shn Navin Sethi, Shri Ananta Prasad

Rawat, Shri Harish Sethi, Shri P .C.

Rawat, Shri Kamla Prasad Shah, Shri Anoopachand

Rawat, Shri Prabhu Lal Shahabuddln, Shri Syed

Reddi, Shri C. Madhav Shailesh, Dr. S.L

Reddy, Shri B.N. Shaktawat, Prof. Nirmala Kumari

Reddy. Shri D.N. Shaminder Singh, Shri

Reddy, Shri K. Ramachandra Shaker Lal, Shri

Reddy, Shri P. Manik Shankaranand. Shri B.

Reddy, Shri S. Jaipal Shanmugam, Shri P.

Riyar., Shri Baju San Shanti Devi, Shrimati

Saha, Shri Ajit Kumar Sharma. Shri Chairanji La'

Saha, Shri Gadadhar Sharma, Shrj Nand Kishore

Sahi, Shri:nati Krishna Sharma, Shri Nawal Kishore

Saito Shri Ebrahim Su!aiman Sharma, Shri Prat~p Bhanu

Sakargaym, Shri Kalicharan Shervani, Shri Saleem I.

Salah uddin, Shri Shingda, Shri D.B.

Sambu, Shri C. Shivendra BahBdur Singh, Shri

Sangma. Shri Williamson Siddiq, Snri Hafiz Mohd.

Sankhawar, Shri Ashkaran Sidnal, Shri S.B.

Sankata Prasad, Dr. Singaravadivel. Shri S.

Santosh Kumar Singh, Shri Singh, Shri K. N. 155 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1.988 Representation 156 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bifl

Singh, Shri Kamla Prasad Thara Devi, Kumari D.K.

Singh, Shri Krishna Pratap Thomas, Prof. K.V.

Singh, Shri Lal Vijay Pratap Thomas. Shri Thampan

Singh, Shri N. Tombi Thorat, Shri Bhausaheb

Singh, Shri S.D. Thungon, Shri P.K.

Singh Deo, Shri K.P. Tigga, Shri Simor.

Sinha, Shrimati Kishori Tilakdhari Singh, Shri

Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan Tira"y, Shri Piyus

Sodi, Shri Mankuram Temar, Shrimati Usha Rani

Solanki, Shri Kalyan Singh Tripathi, Shrimati Chandra

Somu, Shri N.V.N. Tripathi, Dr. Chandra Shekhar

Soren, Shri Harihar Tulsiram, Shri V.

SOZ. Prof. Saifuddin Tyagi, Stui Dharamvir Singh

Sparrow, Shri R.S. Tytler, Shri Jagdish

Sreenivasa Prasad, Shri V. Van, Shri Deep Narain

Sukhbuns Kaur, Shrimati Vanakar, Shri Punam Chand Mithabhai

Sultanpur, Shri K.O. Venkatesan, Shri P.R.S.

Suman, Shri R.P. Verma, Shrimati Usha

Sundararaj, Shri N. Vijayaragnavan. Shri V.S.

Sunder Singh, Ch. Vir Sen, Shri

Surendra Pal Singh, Shri Vyas, Shri Girdnari Lal

Suryawanshi. Shri Narsing Wasnik, Shri Mukul

Swami Prasad Singh, Shri Yadav, Shri Mahabir Prasad

Swell, Shri G.G. Yadav. Shri R.N.

Tapeshwar Singh, Shri Yadav, Shri Ram Singh

Thakkar, Shrimati Usha Yadav, Shri Shyam Lal 157 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Repres9ntation 158 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Yadav. Shri Vijoy Kumar MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The House will now take up CJause-by-Clause consid- Yadava, Shri D.P. eration of the Bill.

Yashpal Singh, Shri Clause 2 (Amendment of Act 48 of 1950)

Yazdani, Dr. Golam PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: 1beg to move: Yogesh, Shn Yogeshwar Prasad Page 2, line 11,- Zainal Abedin, Shn add at the end- Zainul Basher, Shri "after ens.uring that independence MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Subject to of the Election Commission is as- correction·, the result of the divisIon is: sured by providing an executive machinery of the Election Commis- Ayes 387 sion fully independent of the Government's machinery" (19) Noes Nil Page 2,- The motion is carried by a majority of the total membership of the House and by a after line 11, insert- majority of not less than two-thirds of the Members present and voting. "Provided that if the Election Commission required the deploy- The Biil, as amended, is passed by the ment of para-military forces in any requisite majority, in accordance with the constituencies during the elec- provisions of Article 3G8 of the Constitution. tions, such deployment shall take place cnly with the concurrence of Th9 motion was adopted the concerned State Government.· (20) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I will now put the consideration motion regarding the SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I beg to Representation of the People (Amendment) move: Bill, 1988 to vote. Page 2,- The question is: after line 11. insert-- UThat the Bill further to amend the Representation of the people Act, "Provided that the provision of this 1950 and the Representation of the section shall come into operation People Act: 1951. be taken into con- after the Parliament by law sets up sideration ... an independent Secretariat ofElec- tion Commission and the Commis- The motion was adopted sion is given total authority over the

-The fnibwing Members also recorded their votes for A YES: Sarva~hrl Ram Pal Singh. Salram Singh Vadav. Debi Ghoshal. Gc$al K. Tandel. Kinder La&. Kali Prasad Pandey. Sitaram J. GavaN. ManD< Sanyat Dr. Sudhir Roy, Shri Sade Ramaiah and Shri Madan Pandey. 159 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Repf'tlHfltation 160 Second Arndt.) BiN & of People (Amdt.) BiN

ISh. Dinesh Goshwamij "under the general superintendence of" (81) electrical staff employed by the Commission independent of the Page 2,- control of the Union Government. It (40) after line 11, insert-

SHAI AMAl DATTA (Diamond Har- "ExpJanation-For the purpose of bour): I beg to move: this sectbn, Election Commission means a multi-member Commis- Page 2, lines 9 to 11- sion appointed under Article 324 as an independent body with an inde- omit ·and such officers and staff pendent executive machinery in shall. during that period, be subject conSUltation with the Chief Justice to the control. superintendence of the Supreme Court of India and and discipline of the Election the Leader of Opposition, If any, in Commission." (46) Parliament." (83)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: I beg SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: I beg to to move: move:

Page 2, line 8,- Page 2,-

after ·shall" insert- after tine 11, insert-

-Subject to the consent of the State ·Provided that the police and other Government concerned·. (57) force which are called for keeping the peace during the election time page 2, line 11,- in the constituency shall be under the control of Election Commis- add at the end- sion, who shall have to take action against erring officers involved in "only in respect of the work as- influencing the election." (91) signed to them in connection with the election and for no other our- SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: I beg to pose." (58) move:

SHRI SVED SHAHABUDDIN: I beg to Page 2.- move: after line 11. if'sert-

Page 2. line 10,- HProvided that no!wilhstanding any laW providing for disciplinary/pun- after "the" insert ·exclusive" (68) ishing and appeJlate/revisional authority governing services of any SHRI C. MADHAV REDOI (Adilabad): I such officers or other employees, beg to move: in the matter of ads of indiscipline during the course of eledion proc- Page 2. line 8,- ess, the Election Commission shall be aote disciplinary authority with for "'deemed to be on deputation to· powers to impose penalties, pro- substitute- vided for under the law and. the 161 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAVANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 162 Sscond Amdt.) BJ11 & of People (Arndt.) Bill

concerned law dealing with disci- be selected by the national opposi- plinary matters related to the offi- tion parties and groups in Parlia- cers and employees concerned. ment.- (136) shall stand amended to that extent for the ,limited purpose and. any SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: I beg to provision with respect to the appeal move: and or revision available to the officers or other employees in the Page 2, line 8,- usual course, under the said law, shall stand suspended to that for "be deemed to be on deputation extent. - (97) to the Election Commission-

SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: I beg to substi- move: tute "function under the Chief Election Officer of the State- Page 2, line 8,- (146)

after "Commission" insert- (Interruptions)

"Provided the State Government MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have concerned agree" (119) spoken already. Do you want to speak?

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: I beg to PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I wiil move: speak only for one manute. (Interruptions)

Page 2, line 11,- SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (Mahbubnagar): What about my name? add at the end- MR. DEPUlY-SPEAKER: Only the first "exclusively provided that the Elec- ten Members: .. tion Commission shall seek concurrence of the State Government PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I wish concerned.- (128) to bring ...

SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARV: MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Can I re- beg to move: quest the Members to be silent please?

( Interruptions) Page 2,- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Why after line 11, insert- are they making noise? I think, let us wait for one minute.

"Explanation:---For the purpose-Of [ Transl3tion] this sadlon. E~lOl'rQommission means .Commi$- 8ion to be I, \ .1 • tlie p{e$t- THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE denton as'the u i~l'eCiimrf\eR MINISTRY OF FOOD PROCESSING IN- datiofts of • ~Iedion Committee DUSTRIES (SHRI JAGDISH TYTLER): consisting DC it. Chief Justtce of Where is your leader Raja Saheb, who used India. the Prime ~er and a to advocate lowering of voting age to 18 leader of the oppositbR parties to years? He has not cast his vote. 163 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 164 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: But Commission had to see that there is no your Maharaja did cast his vote. purchase of votes there are no malpractices and there is no impact of money power. such [English] a situation existed even in the Mother of Democracy. Sir, you will be surprised that in Please be satisfied with your M'lharaja. the 18th century in England even the con- (Interruptions) stituencies were purchased and they were sold. To one Member who was elected by You don't want support. Mr. Deputy- purchasing the constituency. one voter sent Speaker, in principal we have already ac- a letter saying that he should vote against cepted the fact that we want to strengthen the budget and against the excise duty. To the machinery of the Election Commission. that constituent and voter that member of But we want to go a step ahead and see that Parliament wrote: all the powers that are sought to be given regarding t;,e officers to be appointed, in all "Gentlemen. I have received your let- that matter, we want to put a condition ... ter about excise and I am surprised at your insolence in writing to me at all. MA. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Don't dis- You know and I know that I bought this turb when a Member is speaking. constituency. You know and I know that I am new determined to sell it. And PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I am you know what you think I don't know. putting the amendment. All these powers that you are now looking for another should be given after ensuring that inde- buyer; and I know what you certainly pendence of the Election Commission is don't know. that I have found another assured by providing an executive machin- constituency to buy." ery of the Election Commission, fully independent of the Government machinery. For That is what the Member of Parliament that number of tasks are .o be undertaken in the House of Commons said! and free and fair elections are to be main- tained. We had said the other day that if our Surely; we don't want such things to Lok Sabha machinery and Rajya Sabha happen here. Therefore is the Election machinery had succeeded, it is because the Commissioner has to take strong steps. he machinery of the staff and the secretariat of must not be under the pressure of the Gov· the Lok Sabha are not the part and parcel ernment.lts staff and its machinery. whether either of the Union Government or the State it is State or Centre. should be an independ· Government. They are not persons who are ent machinery like that of the Lok Sabha taken on deputation from the Government. Secretariat. Therefore I am moving this There is an independent machinery. There- amendment, I have not the least doubt, just fore, all over the country, there is an appre- as the Hall. Minister is going to accept an- ciation of the independent machinery of the other amendment of mine, in a similar man- Lok 'Sabha Secretariat. What under the inner he will also accept this amendment and spiration of Shri Vithalbhai Patel and Dr. prevent us to resort to voting. Mavalankar up to the present Speaker has been done is because of the independent SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI (Guwahatir machinery of the Lok Sabha. We want the Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the Hon. Prime same principle to be adopted. Here, I will Minister in his intervention has stated that he conclude by telling that not only in our coun- wants the Election Commission to be truly try but in other countries and even in Eng- independent. You are trying to bring all offi· land which is called the Mother of democ- cers on deputation to the Election Commis- racy, even there also unfair practices are sion. My amendment is that, this provision there. Just for record I would like to point out will come into operation only afterthe Parlia- to you that just as in our country the Election ment by law sets up an independent secre- 165 ConstItution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 166 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill tariat of the Election Commission and the PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, are Commission is given total authority over the you taking up separate amendments moved electoral staff employed by the Commission by the same person separately or all the independent of the control of the Union amendments to the same clause together? Government. MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: There are May I point out that this point was dis- so many amendments given. I am calling cussed during the Constituent Assembly each person to move his amendment to- debate? Dr. Ambedkar at that time stated gether to the same clause. that it may not be necessary to avoid deputation of staff; but when you are bringing PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Just every officer on deputation, that argument IS half a minute Sir. I have given a second no longer available. If you want to put every amendment-No. 20-to the same clause. officer of the State Government on deputation to the Election Commission. it is impera- My amendment is: tive that the Election Commission staff is made totally independent like the one that "Provided that if the Election Commis- we have now in the Lok Sabha and the Rajya sion requires the deployment of para- Sabha Secretariats. . military forces in any constituencies during the elections, such deployment Therefore, I press this amendment that shall take place only with the conc.ur- an independent secretariat should be consti- rence fo the concerned State Govern· tuted and the Election CommiSSion should ments." be given full independence. This clause should come into operation only after this It is our experience in Garhwal that if secretariat is so constituted. without the concurrence of the concerned State the para-military forces are put there- SHRI AMAL DAIT A: Sir, the reason as even the Chief Election Commissioner's to why I want this amendment is the same as observer has said that-the para-military already advanced by Prof. Dandavate and forces tried to over-awe the voters and, Mr. Dinesh Goswami. We have no reason to therefore, they had to put off the entire elec- believe as of now that the Election Commis- tion. Therefore, I stand by my second sion is fully independent or autonomous. amendment. Until that is assured. the Election Commis- sion cannot be given the power proposed in SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE the clause over the State Government (80Ipur): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Prime employees. We want such power to be Minister said even the proposal to have a given; but only after the independence of the multi-member Election Commission shows Election Ccmmission has been ensured by lack of confidence in the Election Commis- suitable amendment for the appointment of sion. I do not know why this proposal has the Chief Election Commissioner by a num- been brought at all-this 13 cc clause 2. ber of Members; a multi-member Election Where is the aUegation that the Election Commission; and a secretariat which is fully Commission finds it difficult to carry out independent and autonomous of the control election work through the State Government of the executive branch of the Government. officials? On the other hand I read out yester- And the members of the Election Commis- day that when a direct challenge was made sion should be removed from the temptation Supreme Court had gone into details of the of future promotion or their career prospects matter and had given its considered verdict like being appointed a Governor, as has that the allegations made against the offi- been done in one case at least. If that is cers who are discharging the functions done, then this power can be given; but until under t~ superintendence and control of that is done, this power cannot be given. the Election Commission they had done 167 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 Representation 168 Second Amdt.) Bill s of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. Somnath Chatterjee] fact, despite all that we have said in this Bill, rigging and booth capturing and so on can- their duties properly. Now there is a provi- not be eliminated unless we can ensure the sion which is sought to be introduced under neutrality and the independence of the staff which there will be 'deemed deputation'. I do deputed for the purpose. not know whether the Law Minister has considered it. Deputation for what pur- Ithink 13 cc is a step in the right direction poses? Do they become employees of the but, Sir, they are only partially on election Election Commission for all purposes? work either during the time the electoral rolls When certain officers are assigned for elec- are prepared or when the conduct of the tion work even the Chief Electoral Officer he election takes place. Now a member of the does not only discharge functions as Chief staff is under dual control. He has a parent Electoral Officer but also he has got his other department and a regime of dyarchy is very functions. In all the States this is happening. difficult to administer. Therefore, I feel that Now you do not have a separate independ- this aspect must be further emphasised by ent set-up of the Election Commission at adding the word exclusion so that for this Delhi. You want to have separate Election purpose he is not under dual control. He is Commission staff in the State Governments. not under diarchal regime and that he is This is an amazing attitude. That is why we under the sole and exclusive control of the say if the State Government wishes to spare Election Commission so that any act of some officers completely for election work ommission or commission in respect of elec- then you take the consent of the State Gov- tion work done by him while he is so engaged ernment and subject to the consent of the may invite and may visit upon him discipli- State Government if they depute such staff nary action, including-I presume and I or if they can release such staff you only take stand subject to correction by the hon. Law them and even then the deputation must be Minister-such punishments as suspension in respect of election work and nothing else. or even removal from office if he is actually- guilty. Unless this power is vested in the Therefore, my amendment is subject to Election Commission that for that work con- the consent of the State Government connected with the Election Commission, he is cerned they should be given to them and the under the exclusive control, that the State deputation if any should only be in respect of Government, from whosoever he comes, the work assigned to them for elections and has absolutely no say in the matter that the for no other purpose. Under the clause as it Election Commission alone shall judge him is framed they are completely dissociated whether he is right or wrong, whether he has from the State Government duties and func- committed a punishable disciplinary act or tions and they come completely for all pur- not, then only we can save the sanctity of the poses under the Election Commission which election. That is why I have suggested a very is totally unnecessary. It will also create simple amendment so that you put the mat- difficulties for the State Governments be- ter beyond any doubt that for that work he is cause they are assigned other work. There- under the exclusive control of the Election fore, I am pressing that my amendment Commission. should be accepted. Let the hon. Minister apply their mind and find out how can there SHRI C. MADHAV REDDI (Adilabad): be total deputation during the period of elec- Sir, clause 2 seeks to amend the Represen- tion when other has to discharged by them. tation of the People Act, 1950, by inserting a new section 13 CC. SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan- ganj): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the neutral- Before we go into this, let us see ity and the independence of the election staff whether such a change is necessary and must be guaranteed because that is the what is the present position with regard to primary pre-condition for proper elections. In the election machinery. the members of the 169 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 170 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

State Government, whether it is possible functions have to be vested with the State now to go ahead without this arrangement. Government itself as it is happening today; Article 324(6) says: these officers have to be disciplined by the State Government and the Commission has UThe Pr.sident or the Governor of a to write to the State Government to take State, shall, when so requested by the action against a particular officer. Election Commission, make available to the Election Commission or to a The second consequence of this is that Regional Commissioner such staff as lakhs of officer-as I had pointed out yester- may be necessary for the discharge of day-would be on deputation even though the functions conferred on the Election for a month or so. Everyone of these officers Commission by clause (1 ) ... will have to be paid deputation allowance. If you calculate roughly, you will find out that There is already a constitutional provi- an amount of about Rs. 25-30 crores per sion and the State Governments are under annum is required for revision of electoral an obligation to make all the staff available to rolls, for correction of rolls, for conducting the Election Commission for discharging the elections, for conducting by-elections, etc., functions. Now, you want to give the func- etc. The Government of India has to incur tions of disciplining the staff of the State this huge amount of about Rs. 25-30 crores Government to the Election Commission. which is additional burden. Nothmg has That is the point. Even though it is wrong, in been said in the Financial Memorandum that case, the Constitution has to be about this. amended. Article 324(6) is to be amended. Unless it is amended by providing in the The third consequence of this would be Constitution saying that such staff shall be that it will interfere with the State deemed to be on deputation to the Election Government's work. I agree thatthe Election Commission for the period during which the Commission' has no separate staff in the said staff is so employed, I am afraid the States. They have to depend on the State present amendment is violative of Article ;(3overnment's staff. But that does not mean 324. that Election Commission take them overan deputation. It will lead to a lot cjf complica- Sir, what is the need of such an amend- tions. ment? First of all, what are the conse- quences of this amendment? The first con- The han. Prime Minister haS said that it sequence is that it will lead to dual admini- is proposed to strengthen the Election stration because, as has been rightly Commission. I do not see any proposal to pointed out by my colleagues, all these offi- strengthen the Election Commission. What cers are in charge of various functions at the are the proposals? Ewn if you do not have State Government. They are not exclusively a multi-member Commission, if you want to working oRder the Election Commission. A strengthen the Commission today, the first Collector has to discharge several functions thing that you have to do is to define the in the district as a Collector. In addition to terms and conditions bf his appointment; that, he may be a returning officer of a also to say that he wiD dr*w his salary differ- parliamentary constituency. Now, suppose ently from what he is ~lOday. Today. his if disciplinary proceedings are started by the salary is not a charge OR;lConsolidated commission for some alleged erring of the Fund of India; it is voted. '.s. What is his Collector what will be the effect of this? cons!MlionaJ status? E . _, ugh there is a Where are you keeping the State Govern- menMi·m the Constitution:Y. he does not ment? The State Government will be totally have {h.same constitutional status as other in the dark if they do not know what proceed- officers, like C.A.G. etc. have. I think, there is ings are going on between the Commission no need for this amendment and I am op- and the erring officer. So, these disciplinary posed to it. 171 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representa.tion 172 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS; At the this amendment, he will be able to control, outset, I may say that unfortunately, the suporlntend. and exercise discipline on the Government has opted !o bring amend- oftlcers and employees. Now, there are ments only to certain provision5, and there- rules governing control and discipline with fore, we cannot m~r.tion about provisions regard to each class of workers. For in- other than those. In tact, there is need to stance, for an Under Secretary, there are have an overall look at the Representation of rules, Classification of Appeal Rules etc. the People Act. There are c.ertain other pro- There the authority has belln mentioned. visions in the main Act which require amend- Under this amendment, the disciplinary au- ments. I hope you will kindly give me a thority for this class would remain the same. chance to speak in the third reading with If an Under Sacretary commits a mistake or regard to those important polnts. I am now commits indiscipline the Election C smmis- speaking on my amendment only. sion will have no power to impose penalty on him; he will write to the Chief Secretary to As my previous speaker spoke, we are impose penalty on him. Therefore, all aware of the experience of the functionrng absolutely no power of discipline will be and the influence exercised by the paramili- given to the Election Commission. Actual tary forces and police forces at the time of power is vested under these rules only. My elections in the various constituencies. This amendment says that the particular power affects seriously the independence of the which is vested in that disciplinary authority elections and the election machinery. Two shall dUring the period of election orocess things are important; one, whether the Elec- remain suspended and all these powers tion Commission be a real autonomous would be exercised by the Election Commis- body, and two, the people should have belief sion during that period. in that machinery. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE Unfortunately, yesterday though the (Panskura): Sir, my amendment is just like Election Commission has notified elections the amendment moved by Shri Somnath to three Assemblies, Lok Sabha and Assem- Chatterjee. The points which he has already bly by-elections have not been notifIed tak- covered, I am not going to coverthem again. ing into account the convenience of the Instead I am giving some additional reasons ruling party. This creates a suspicion in the as to why we wanted the approval of the minds of the electorates of this country. State Government and also why the officers Therefore, if the electorate of this country should not be used for any other purpose. has to have a real confidence in the Election Commission, if should not only be away from Sir, had there been a reconstitution of the influence of the Government, but it the Electhn Commission, we could have should also appear to be away from Govern- thought over this but without any reconstitu- ment influence. In this context, the election tion, this amendment is very important. Commission should be a mul1i~member Secondly, Sir, it is an abridgementofthe body. and the paramilitary forces which work powers of the State Government. With all the in the costituencies during the elections declaration from the house-tops that there should also be independent of Government Will be decentralisation of power, why sud- influence. so that the electorate has faith in denly you have this centralisation, I would them. In view of this I press my amendment. like to know. Sir, prima facie I am not doubting any Election Commissioner as such. But, SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK; Under 13 Sir. it is also trua that tha Election CC, the statt which will be brought on depu- Commissioner's verdicts have been chal- tation to the Election Commission, obvi- lenged in the courts and the courts have ousty, the EJection Commission would exer- changed them many a time. Therefore, they are also not beyond the question. That is cise control. superintendence, and disci- why I think, Sir, these two provisions should pline. The question is whether by virtue of be there. 173 Constitution (Sixty- AtiAAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Rep,ese~tation 174 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY that context. When he said that we want to (Katwa): Sir, my amendment is: strengthen the Election Commission, that does not mean that we have anything ~o do "For the purpose of this section, Elec- with not holding the lok Sabha el~ctions. tion Commission means a three mem- We have always been prepared for the by- ber Commission to be appointed by the elections. President on the unanimous recommendations of a Selection Committee SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: Sir, consisting of the Chie! Justice of India, it is a very wrong way to try to appease a high the Prime Minister and a leader of the official. It is not a good way. Opposition parties to be selected by the national parties and groups in Parlia- Now, in this Probe of February, 1988, ment." there is one interview of a former -Election Commissioner, Shri S.L. Shakdhar, who is Now, Sir, we all know that our also known as a Constitutional expert. Constitution provides for a multi-Mernber When he was asked, Commission, there is nothing wrong when we moved this amendment. I take very "What kind of influences can be brought serious objection to ""'hat the Prime Minister to bear on the Election Commissioner?". said while he was speaking and also what the Minister said. The Minister and also the he replied, Prime Minister said that they have no problem with the Election Commissione.; has "It can be direct or through the Prime problem with the Election Commissioner. Minister's emissaries." Why should only opposition have problem with the Election Commissioner? Sir, by This was the reply. saying this you have cast aspirations on the Election Commissioner. Why are you happy with the Election CommiSSioner? Why There is one more question: should you be happy? If the Election Commissioner takes a decision to hold all "If pressure continues on the Election the by--elections of Parliament-the power Commissioner, what do you think wiil that is there with the Election Commis- t.:ltimately happen?". sioner-who can prevent him from taking this decision? This is a vital question. You The answer is: say that you are happy. Why are you happy, please tell us. Is that because it did not take II fhe Constitution will be subverted. decision to hold by election?

I have a magazine with me by the name. 'Probe'. He was asked next:

THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMEN- "Apart from using constitutional meth- TARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF IN- ods, in what other ways can one put FORMATION AND -BROADCASTING pressure on the Election Commis- (SHRI H.K.l. BHAGAT): The Prime Minister sioner?- said that there have been decisions taken by the the Election Commissioner which you Answer: have not liked and there have also been some decisions which we have not liKed. "One method can be to hold out some That is what he said. You should take it in kind of a promise tQ the Commissioner

* Not recorded. 175 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 176 Second Amdt.) BiN & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh~ Saifuddin Chowdhary] member body, unless it is made autonomous and Independent, the present malady and say that his future is safe in their that is there cannot be stepped. Yesterday, (the powers that be) hands. I have not Shri H.K.L.Bhagat observed that these experienced it personally.· steps would weaken the election Commis- sion. These steps will not weaken the Elec- When a denial is made for the constitution of tion Commission. These will rather a multimember Election Commission and strengthen it. So, I feel that the present when they express their happiness over the system which is functioning well should present Commissioner, we get doubts. Of remain. course, I do not doubt the integrity of the Commissioner. A . man cannot be one SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, I am hundred per cent perfect. But there should surprised that the Opposition is divided on be institutional safeguards and people this issue. should understand that the Election Commission is impartial by its very PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: They constitution. It is a very democratic point and are complementary amendments. You will it has to be conceded if you have any faith in know it if you read them. and respect for democracy. J do not want to take much of your time. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Some hon. members in their anxiety and concern SHRI BASUDEB ACHAR!A: My for the independence of the Election amendment is that the existing system Commission have suggested certain should ramain. I do not know what the amendments so that the Election Commis- intention of the Government is, when they sion can really be independent and strong to say that the employees, staff, etc. who will be exercise its power. required for election work, will be deemed to be on deputation to Election Commission. Some Members, especially from OPM Will this strengthen the Election Commis- and T elugu Desam are opposed to sion? I want to know whether this will create strengthening the hands of the Election problems. As has been stated by my col- Commission. leagues, these officers perform the election duties in addition to their normal work. For SOME HON. MEMBERS: NO. example, a District Magistrate or a Sub- Divisional Officer, etc. are appointed as SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Who said returning officers. They have to attend to the that? work in their respective Departments. If they anil deemed to be 'on deputation' to the SHRI 8. SHANKARANAND: You said Election Commission, what will happen to that. I am not saying this. (Interruptions) their work? Will they have to do election work only during this period of their deputa- SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: tion? This is not clear. Moreover, this Why are you allowing us to strengthen the amendment will also result in the erosion of hands? We want to strengthen the brain. the State Government's power. When the present systems is working well and when SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I really the officers perform these election duties in appreciate your brains. The brains that you addition to their normal work, what is the have ... intention of the Government in bringing about this amendment? PROF. MADHU DANOAVATE: When you reply. please note that each one of our Secondty, unless the Elec1ion CommIs- Amendments 'in supported by all others. sion is strengthened by making it a multi- ( Interruptionst 177 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 178 Second Amdt.} Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I never plate multi-member Election Commis- thought that the Opposition will blow hot sion. and cold at the same breath when they are proposing such Amendments. I never is it a crime? thought that. SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: What Shri Some Members say that staff should be H.K.l. Bhagat had said was that this will given so that they really function better. I weaken the Election Commission. (Inter- have no quarrel with that Amendment. But ruptions) some Members have openly said, we are opposed to this Amendment. Now, tell me SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I want to what is the fate ofthose who are sl!ggestlng know is it a suggestion of the Election something to strengthen this Amendment? Commission itself? What is your fate, when they are opposed to it? SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Unless you listen to me, I won't be able to convince PROF MADHU DANDAVATE: You tell you. You piease first try to learn how to your reaction. listen to others.

SHRJ B. SHANKARANAND: 1hen my First let me say Mr. Chatterjee, do not reaction is, J do appreciate the concern of arrogate to yourself knowledge of all the the hon. Members who are in favour of legal and Constitutional matters. making th~ Election Commiss:on Inde- pendent. But do you want to say that the SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: I am present Election Commission is not inde- oply reminding you. (Interruptions) pendent? Please let us know your views. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: ~ will SHRJ SA!FUDDIN CHOWDHARY: By reduce your dignity and respectability. I am dOing so you are 'creating a suspicion in our adviSing you. You cannot arrogate to your- minds .... self all the knowledge in the world about law and Constitution. SHRJ B. SHANKARANAND: let me know your views. SHRJ SOMNATH CHAITERJEE: Who is doing that? (Interruptions) PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: We are very clear that we want built-in safety valve SHRIB.SHANKARANAND: Oon'a~ 10 strengthen the Election Commission. rogate to your self as if you are the only man who understands law and Constitution. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, this IS not an occasion for discussing the Election Commission as such. I do not think it IS the SHRI SOMNATH CHAITERJEE: I am intemion of the Opposition. Election no, the author of the Constitution. Commission cannot bE' discussed in this way. I request the hon. Members not to tCtlk something which will further reduce the SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I Know strength of the Election CommiSSion which what they are doing in their State and that is independent, which is a Constitutional is why they are opposed to strengthening authority. the hands of the Election Commission. They don't want to strengthen the Election SHRI SOMNATH CHATIER-lEE: The Corr.mission. They don't want the Election Prime Minister and also the law Minister Commission to be independent That is have said that Article 324 does contem- why they are opposed to it. 179 eo17stitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 180 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

SHRI DASUDEB ACHARIA: What are MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why are you you doing here? You don't want the Elec- all shoutIng? tion Commission to be independent. All the rnulti-members will weaken the Ejection SHRJ SATYAGOPAL MISRA: You Commission. have destroyed it.

SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Regard- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Ing Staff about which had been :::>pokan, the MINISTRY OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI staff is real:y under the control of the Elec- H.R. BHARDWAJ): Incorrigibles. tion Commission and Election Commission ... {!nterruptions) SHRJ B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, cannot reply to the shouting part of it. Claiming the entire knowledge of law and Constitution .... ( IntRrruptions) MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr. Minister, you address the Chair. SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Nobody has claimed it. I only said that (Interruptions) Article 324 contained a reference to multi-- member Election Commission. Where is SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: For the arrogance here? (Interruptions) amusement of the House, may I tell one story Sir-just one story, so that the tension SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: t know. ;s reduced: In a court of law, one advocate You alse know everything about the law. was saying certain things. He shouted, (Inte.7uptions) I know what is the meaning thumped the desk, kicked in the air and of law in West Bengal. t know that also. blowed iC'l the air. When the othor advocate begaC'l repl)'ing, before the Judge, do you Sl-fRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: know what he started with? Without utter- You know everything. ing a he made simi!ar gestures. (Interrup- tions) The Judge asked him: 'What are you SHRI SATYAGOPALMISRA (Tamluk): doing?' The other advocate replied. "I am You only know cover--up. repiying to the observations of that advocate. Can I do that? (Interruptions) I do not MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, or- have that lung power to shout and reply. I der. Why are you dragging that in "ere? do not do that. I can only reply to reasonable propositions and reasonable argu- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I entirely ments. (Interruptions) condemn what he said against me personally. SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: He is a model of humility just now. ( Interruptio'ls) SHRt B. SHANKARANAND: I can say MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Why are you I rea!ly a,Jprecia1e the concern of those diverting the Minister? (Interruptions) Members who want really to see that the Election Commission .... (lnterlLlptions} But do you want to say that the Election SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Please Commission is not indepandent? learn something about parliamentary dignity and other things. You learn something. You SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY; have come for the first time to Parliament. Who said that? You shouJd know. (Intefft.Jptions) This is the highest forum. You should know how to SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Is it your behave in Parliament. (/nt9mJptions) case? (int9"uplions) On the othar hand. 181 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Hepresentafion 182 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

this prov!sio., gives the Election CommIs- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can I put sion an authority over all the staff who are rest of the amendments to the vote of the drafted for the purpose of election, during House? the etaction, and during !he time of enu- meration and finalizing the electoral rol:s. PROF. I\,~ADHU DANDAVATE: WfJ We want to brihg all the staff under the have given you in writing how to put these Jurisdiction of the Election Commis:;ion for amendments. a brief period. I will re3.d that. it says: MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Amend· "The officers referred to in ~hjs Part ments 81, 19 and 136 have to be put to the and say other officer or staff employed vote of the House separately. The other in connection with the preparation, revi- amendments C3n be put together. . sion and correction of the electoral rolls for, and the conduct of, a~i elections SHRI B SHANKARANAND: Let them shall b9 deemed to be on deputation to not expose themselves in favour of the State the Election Commission for the pel iod having :=tn authority fOI these elections so during which they are so employed .... that it wl:1 help rigging in favour of the State Authority. The period is also mentioned there. It IS no! for ail times. I will read further: MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will first put amendment no. 19 to the vote of the House. ~ .... and such officers and staff shall, The ~uestion is: during that period, be subject to the control, superintendence and discipline Page 2, lir.e 11,- of the Election Ci;mmission." add at the entf- We are bringing these people lmrier the. discipline of the Election Commission. "after ensuri~g that independence of Thele were complaints that thE: State ma- the Election Commission is assured chinery was also engaged in rigging, helping by providing an executive machirery in booth- capturing, thinking that they are of the Election Commissicn fully inde- unaer the dlract diSCiplinary jurisdiction of pendent of the Govemment's ma- the State authorities ... (lnterruptions) We chinery". (19) say: No; the Election Commission- should have the jurisdiction during that period, I.e. disciplinary authority on these people. From The Lok Sabha dividfJd: this point of view, I request the hon. Mem- bers who are really opposing this provision, 16.17 hrs. that they should not expo~e themselves, i.e.. that they were not in favour of an independ- Division 1'10.11 ent Election Commission. AYES So, I am not accepting anyone of their amendments. Acharia, Shri Basudeb

SHRI SHJ\NTARAM NAIK: I s~ek the Appalanarasimham. Shri P. leave of the House to withdraw my amendment, No. 97. Baitha. Shri D.L

Barman, Shri Palas Amendment No, 97 was, by leal/e. withdrawn. Basu. Shri An.! 183 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 184 Second Amdt) BiN & of People (Amdt) am Bhoopathy. Shri G. Ramashray Prasad Singh, Shri Biswas, Shri Ajoy Rao, Shri A.J.V.B. Maheswara Chatterjee, Shri Somnath Rao, Dr. G. Vijaya Rama Choudhary, Shri Samer Brahma Rao, Shri Srihari Chowdhary, Shri Saifuddin Rao, Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara Dandavate, Prof. Madhu Ratnam, Shri N. Venkata Oas, Sri R.P. Reddi, Shri C. Madhav Datta, Shri Amal Reddy, Shri, B.N. Ghosh Goswami, bhrimati Bibha Reddy, Shri K. Ramachandra Goswami, Shri Dinesh Reddy Shn P. Manik Guraddi, Shn S.M. Rlyan, Shri BaJu Ban Hannan Mollah, Shri Roy, Dr. Sudtur Hai1sda, Shri Matilal Saha, Shn Ajlt Kumar Het Ram, Shri Saha, Shri Gadadhar Iyer, Shri V.S. Krishna Sambu, Shn C. Janarthanan, Shri Kadambur Sanyal, Shn Manlk Jhansi Lakshmi, Shrimati N.P Shahabuddln, Shri Syed ~Ipana Devi, Dr. T. *Sinha, Shn Satyendra Narain Khan. Shri Mohd. Ayub (Udhampur) Thomas, Shri Thampan Malik. Shn, Puma Chandra T,raky, Shri PIYUS Masudal ~:ossai", Shri Syed Tulsiram, Shri V. Misra, Shri Satyagopal Yadav, Shn Vi!oy Kumar Mul

Pathak, bhri An~mda AbLasi. Shri KJ.

Patil, Shri O.B. Anmad, Shri Sarlaraz ·Wrongly voted for AYES. 185 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) RepreNntation 186 SfICOnd Amdt.) 8111 & of People (Arndt.) BiB

Ahmed, Shrimati Abida Birbal. Shri

Akhtar Hasan. Shri Birinder Singh. Shri

Alkha Ram, SHri Chandrashekharappa, Shri T.V.

Ansari. Shri Z.R. Charies, Shri A.

Anthony, Shri P.A. Chaturvedi, Shri Naresh Chandra

Arunachalam. Shri M. Chaturvedi, Shrimati Vidyavati

Athithan, Shri R. Dhanuskodi Chaudhary, Shri Manphool Singh

Awasthi, Shri Jagdish Chaudhry. Shri Kamal

Azad. Shri Ghulam Nabi Chavda. Shri Ishwarbhai K.

Baghel. Shri Pratapsinh Chokka Rao, Shri J.

8airagi, Shri Balkavi Choudhari, Shrimati Usha

8ajpai, Dr. Rajendra Kumari Choudhary, Shri NandlaJ

Bata Goud, Shri T. Dabhi, Shri Ajitsinh

Balaraman, Shri L. Oalbir Singh, Shri

BWlerJee, Kumari Mamata Oalwai, Shri Hussain

Basavarajeswan, Shrimati Damor. Shri Somjibhai

Basheer, Shri T. Das, Shri Anadi Charan

Bhagat, Shri H.K.L. Das, Shri Bipin Pal

Bhanu Pratap Singh, Shri Das, Shri Sudarsan

Bharat Singh, Shri Das Munsi, Shri Priya Ranjan

Bhardwaj, Shri Paras ram Dennis, Shri N.

Bhoi, Dr. Krupasindhu Deara, Shri Murli

Bhosale, Shri Prataprao B. Digal, Shri Radhakanta

Bhoye. 5hri 5.S. Dighe, Shri Sharad

Bhumij, Shri Haren Digvijaya Singh. Shri

Bhuria, Shri Dileep Singh Dikshit, Shrimati SheUa 187 COnstitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 R9pT9sentation 188 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) 8lI

Dube, Shri Bhishma Deo Kamla Prasad Singh. Shri

Engti. Shri Biren Singh Kamson, Prof. Meijinlung

Gadhvi. Shri B.K. Kaul. Shrimati Sheila

Gaikwad, Shri Udaysingrao Ken. Shri Lala Ram

Gamit. Shri C.D. Keyur Bhusan, Shri

Gavit. Shri Manikrao Hodlya Khan. Shri Aslam Sher

Gehlot. Shri Ashok Khan. Shri Mohd. Ayub (Jhunjhunu)

Gholap. Shri S.G. Kinder Lal. Shri

Ghosal, Shri Debi Kisku. Shri Prithvi Chand

Gohil, Shri G.B. Krishna Prataf? Singh. Shri

Gamango. Shri Giridhar Kshirsagar. Shrimati Kesharbai

Gopeshwar. Shri Kuchan, Shri Gangadhar S.

Gounder. Shri A.S. Kuiur, Shri Maurice

Gowda, Shri H.N. Nanje Kuppuswamy, Shri C.K.

Guha, Dr. Phulrenu Kurian, Prof. P.J.

Gupta, Shrimati Prabhawati Lachchhi Ram. Shri

Halder, Prof. M.R. Law. Shri Asutosh

Harpal Singh. Shri Madhurae Singh, Shrimati

Jain, Shri Virdhi Chander Mahabir Prasad, Shri

Jangde, Shri Khelan Ram Mahendra Singh, Shri

Jatav. Shri Kammodilal Makwana, Shri Narsinh

Jena. Shri Chintamani Malik. Shri Dharampal Singh

Jhikram. Shri M. L Mallick. Shri Lakshman

Jujhar Singh. Shri Malviya. Shri Bapulal

Kamble, Shri Arvind Tulshiram Manorma Singh. Shrimati

Kamla Kumari. Kumari Mavani, Shrimati Patal Ramaben Ramjibhai 189 Constitution (Shay- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 ($AKA) Rspresentation 190 Ssc:ond Arndt.) 811 & of People (Amdt.) BiI

Mehta. Shri Haroobhai Parashar, Prof. Narain Chand

Meirakumar.Shrimati Pardhi. Shri Keshaorao

Mishra, Shri G.S. Paswan, Shri Ram Bhagat

Mishra. Dr. Prabhat Kumar Patel. Shri Ahmed M.

Mishra, Shri Ram Nagina Patel, Shri C.D .

.Mishra. Shri Shripati Patel, Shri G.I.

Mishra. Shri Uma Kant Patel. Shri Mohanbhai

Mahandas, Shri K. Patil. Shri Balasaheb Vikhe

Mohanty. Shri Brajamohan Pati1, Shri H.B.

More, Prof. Ramkrishna Patil. Shri Prakash V.

Matilal Singh, Shri Patil, Shri Shivraj V.

Mundackal, Shri George Joseph Patil, Shri Uttamrao

Murmu, Shri Sidha Lal Patil, Shri Veerendra

Murthy, Shri M. V. Chandrashekara Patnaik. Shrimati Jayanti fJJushran, Shri Ajay Panwar, Shri Satyanarayan

Naik, Shri Shantaram Poojary, Shri Janardhana

Nawal Prabhakar, Shrimati Sunderwati Potdukhe. Shri Shantaram

Neekhra, Shri Rameshwar Prabhu. Shri R.

Negi. Shri Chandra Mohan Singh Pradhan, Shri K.N.

Odeyar, Shri Channaiah Pradhani, Shri K.

Draan, Shrimati Sumati Purushothaman, Shri Vakkom

'Pandey. Shri Damodar Pushpa Devi, Kumari

Pandey. Shri Madan Qureshi. Shri Aziz

Pandey. Shri Manoj Rai, Shri I. Rama

Panigrah;, Shri Srballav Rai, Shri Raj Kumar

Panb. Shri Ram Pyare Raj Karan Singh. Shri 191 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Rspresentation 112 Second Amdt.) Bill & of PflOpIe (AmcIt.) BiI

Rajhans. Dr. G.S. Shahi. Shri laliteshwar • Ram. Shri Ram Ratan Shaktawat, Prof. Nirmala Kumari

Ram. Shri Ramswaroop Shankaranand. Shrt B.

Ram Awadh Prasad, Shri Shankar Lal, Shri

Ram Ohan. Shri Shanmugam. Shri P.

Ram Prakash. Ch. Sharma. Shri Chiranji Lal

Ram Samujhawan. Shri Sharma, Shri Nand Kishore

Ram Singh, Shri Sharma, Shri Pratap Bhanu

Ramachandran. Shri Mullappally Shastri, Shri Hari Krishna

RampaJ Smgh. Shn Shervani, Shri Saleem I.

Rana Vir Singh, Shri Shivendra Bahadur Singh. Shri

Ranganath. Shri K.H. Siddiq, Shri Hafiz Mohd.

Rao. Shri J. Vengala Sidnal, Shri S.B.

Rath, Shri Somanth Singaravadivel. Shri S.

Rathawa. Shri Amarsinh Singh. Shri Lal Vijay Pratap

Rathod. Shri Uttam Singh. Shri S.D.

Ravani, Shri Navin Singjh Deo. Shri K.P.

Rawat. Shri KamJa Prasad Sinha. Shrimati Kishori

Rawat, Shri Prabhu Lal Sodi. Shri Mankuram

Sahi. Shrimati Krishna Soren. Shri Harihar

Sakargaym, Shri Kalicharan Sparrow, Shri R.S.

Salah uddin, Shri Sreenivasa PrasaiJ, Shri V.

Sankata Prasad. Dr. Sukh Ram. Shri

Sayeed, Shri P.M. Sultanpuri. Shri K.D.

Sen,Shri Bholanath Suman. Shri R.P.

Shah, Shri Anoopchand Sundararaj. Shri 193 eon.tIIution (Sixty- AGRAHAYAHA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 194 SIIOOtttI AmdtJ 811 & of People (Amdt) _

Sunder Singh, Ch. Yadav, Shri R.N.

Surendra Pal Singh, Shri Yadav. Shri Ram Singh

Suryawanshi, Shri Nars~rao Yadava, Shri D.P.

Swami Prasad SIngh. Shri Yazdani. Dr. Golam

Swell, Stiri G.G. Yogesh. Shri Yogeshw. Prasad

Tapeshwar Singh, Shri Zainul Basher, Shri

Tariq Anwar, Shri MR. DEPUTY -SPEAKER: Subject to correction* the result of the division is: Thakkar, Shrimati Usha Ayes: 55 Thara Devi. Kumari O.K. Noes:239 Thorat. Shri Bhausaheb The motion was negatived. Thungon, Shri P .K. MR DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I shaH 1igga. Shri Simon now put Amendment No. 81 moved 'by Shri Madhav Aeddi to the vote of the House. Tilakdhari Singh, Shri The question is : Tombi Singh, Shri N. Page 2, line 8, - Tripathi, Shrimati Chandra for .. deemed to be on deputation to .. Tripathi, Dr. Chandra Shekhar substitute-·under the general superintendence of II (81) Tragi, Shri Dharamvir Singh The LDk Sabha divid9d: -Yanakar, Shri Punam Chand Mithabhai 16.20 hr. Venl

Vijayaraghavan, Shri V.S. AYES

Vir Sen, Shri kharia, Shri Basudeb

~yas, Shri Girdhari lal Appalanarasimham. Shri P.

The following Members also record$d their votes AYES: Sarvashree B.B. Ramaiah. D. N. Reddy and P. PenchaHiah. ~OES: Shri Abdul Hannan Ansari, Dr. B.L Shailesh, Dr. G.S. Dhillon, Shrimati Prabhawati Gupta. Sarvashri Chandra Kishore Pathak. Satyendra Narayan Sinha. Mohd. Ayub Khan, Katl Prasad Pandey, Ramdeo Rai and Raj Mangal Pandey. 195 CDnstituIion (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 ~1. Second AmdL) Bill & of People (AmdL) Bill

BanatwaUa, Shri G. M. Mukherjee. Shrimati Geeta

Barman. Shri Palas Murty, Shri Bhattam Srirama

Basu, Shri AnD Patel. Dr. A.K.

Bhoopathy, Shri G. Pathak, Shri Ananda

Bhuria. Shri Oileep Singh Patil. Shri D.B.

Biswas, Shri Ajoy Penchalliah, Shri P.

Chatterjee. Shri Somnath Ramaiah. Shri B.B.

Choudhury. Shri Samar Brahma Ramashray Prasad Singh. Shri

Chowdhary. Shri Saifuddin Rao, Shri A.J. V.B. Maheswara

Dandavate. Prof. Madhu Rao. Dr.G. Vijaya Rama

Das. Shri R.P. Rao. Shri Srihari

Datta. Shri Amal Rao. Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara

Gosh Goswami, Shrimati Bibha Ratnam. Shri N. Venkata

Goswami. Shri Dinesh Reddi. Shri C. Madhav

Guraddi. Shri S.M. Reddy. Shri B.N.

Hannan Mollah. SOO Reddy, Shri Bezawada Papl

Hansda. Shri Matilal Reddy, Shri K. Ramachandra

Het Ram. Shri Reddy. Shri P. Manik

~er, Shri V.S. Krishna Riyan. Shri 8aju Ban

Janarthanan. Shri Kadambur Roy, Dr. Sudhir

Jhansi Lakshmi, Shrimati. N.P. Saha, Shri Ajit Kumar

Kalpana Devi, Dr. T. Saha. Shri Gadadhar

·Kamble, Shri. Arvind Tulshiram Sait, Shri Ebrahim Sulaiman

MalIk. Shrl Purna Chandra SanyaJ, Shri Manik

Masudal Hossain, Shri Syed Shahabuddin, Shri Syed tllIsra. Shri Satyagopal Thomas, Shri Thampan -wrangty voted for AYES. 1·97 ConsthuIioD (Sbtty- AGRAHAYANA 24.1910 (SAKA) Repr8sentation 198 Second Amelt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) SUI

Tlfaky. Shri Piyus Bhagat. Shri H. K. L

Tulsiram. Shri V. Bharat Singh. Shri

Yadav. Shri Vijoy Kumar Bhardwaj. Shri Parasram

Zainal Abedin, Shri Bhoi, Dr. Krupasindhu

NOES Bhosale, Shri Prataprao B. Abbasi. Shri K.J. Bhoye, Shri S.S. Abdul Ghafoor, Shri Bhumij, Shri Haren Ahmad, Shri Sarfaraz Birbal. Shri Ahmed. Shrimati Abida Birinder Singh. Shri Akhtar Hasan. Shri Chandrashekharappa. Shri T.V. Alkha Ram, Shri Charles, Shri A. Ansari. Shri Abdul Hannan Chaturvedi, Shrimati Vidyavati Ansari, Shri Z. R. Chaudhary, Shri Manphool ~ingh Antony. Shri P. A. Chaudhry, Shri Kamal Arunachalam, Shri M. Chavda, Shri Ishwarbhai K. Athithan, Shri R. Dhanuskodi Chokka Rae, Shri J. Awasthi. Shri Jagdish Choudhari, Shrimati Usha Azad, Shri Gulam Nabi Dabhi, Shri Ajitsinh Baghel. Shri Pratapsinh Darbir Singh, Shri Bairagi. Shri Balkavi Damar, Shri Somjibhai Baitha, Shri D. L Das, Shri Anadi Charan Bajpai. Dr. Rajendra Kumari Das, Shri Bipin Pal Bala Gaud, Shri T. Oas, Shri Sudarsan Balaraman. Shri L. Das Munsi, Shri Priya Ranjan Banerjee, Kumari Mamata Dennis, Shri N. Basavarajeswari. Shrimati Deors, Shri Murli 199 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 R9pnlsentation 200 Second AmtlL) BiB & of People (Arndt.) BiN

Dhillon, Dr. G.S Jangde, Shri Khelan Ram

Digal, Shri Radhakanta Jatav, Shri Kammodilal

Dighe, Shri Sharad Jeevarathinam. Shri R.

Oigvijaya Singh, Shri Jena. Shri Chintamani

Dikshit, Shrimati Sheila Jitendra Prasada. Shri

Dube. Shri Bhishma Ceo Jujhar Singh. Shri

Engti. Shri 8iren Singh Kamla Kumari, Kumari

Gadhvi. Shri B.K. Kamala Prasad Singh, Shri

Gaikwad, Shri Udaysingrao Kamson, Prof. Meijinlung

Gamit. Shri C.D. Kaul. Shrimati Sheila

Gavit, Shri Manikrao Hodlya Ken. Shri Lala Ram

Gahlot. Shri Ashok Keyur Shushan, Shri

Gholap. Shri S.G. Khan, Shri Aslam Sher

Ghosal, Shri Debi Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Jhunjhunu)

Gohil. Shri G.B. Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Udhampur)

Gomango. Shri Giridhar Kinder Lal, Shri

Gopeshwar, Shri Kisku, Shri Prithvi Chand

Gounder. Shri A.S. Krishna Pratab Singh. Shri

Gowda, Shri H.N. Nanje Kshirsagar. Shrimati Kesharbai

Guha. Dr. Phulrenu Kuchan, Shri Gangadhar S.

Gupta. Shri Janak Raj Kujur. Shri Maurice

Gupta, Shrimati Prabhawati Kuppuswamy, Shri C.K.

Halder, Prof. M. R. Kurian, Prof. P.J.

Harpal Singh. Shri Lachchhi Ram, Shri

Jagannath Prasad, Shri Law. Shri Asutosh

Jain. Shri Virdhi Chander Madhuree Singh. Shrimati 201 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24.1910 (SAKA) Rspressntatfon 202 S9COnd Amdt.) BRI & of People (Arndt) BiD

Mahabir Prasad. Shri Negi, Shri Chandra Mohan Singh

Mahendra Singh, Shri Odeyar. Shri Channaiah

Makwana, Shri Narsinh Oraon, Shrimati Sumati

Malik, Shri Dharampal Singh Pande, Shri Raj Mangal

Mallick, Shri Lakshman Pandey, Shri Damodar

Malviya, Shri aapulal Pandey, Shri Madan

Manorama Singh. Shrimati Pandey, Shri Manoj

Mavani, Shrimati Patel Ramaben Panigrahi, Shri Sriballav Ramjibhai Panika, Shri Ram Pyare Mehta, Shri Haroobhai Parashar. Prof. Narain Chand Meira Kumar, Shrimati Pardhi, Shri Keshaorao Mishra, Shri G.S. Paswan, Shri Ram Bhagat Mishra, Dr. Prabhat Kumar Patel, Shri Ahmed M. Mishra. Shri Ram Nagina Patel, Shri C.D. Mishra, Shri Shripati Patel, Shri GJ. Mishra. Shri Umakant Patel, Shri Mohanbhai Mohandas, Shri K. Patel, Shri U.H. Mohanty, Shri Brajamohan Pathak, Shri Chandra Kishora More, Prof. Ramkrishna P atil, Shri Balasaheb Vikhe Motilal Singh, Shri Patil, Shri H.B. Mundackal, Shri George Joseph Patil, Shri Prakash V. Murmu, Shri Sidha Lal PaUl, Shri Shivraj V. Murthy, Shri M.V. Chandrashekara Patil, Shri Uttamrao Mushran, Shri Ajay Patil, Shri Veerendra Naik,Shri Shantaram Patnaik, Shrimati Jaya,nti Nawal Prabhakar, Shrimati Sunderwati

Neekhra. Shri Rameshwar Panwar. Shri Satyanarayan 203 Conslitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 Representation 204 Sscond Amdt) BiI & of PIIOpIs (Amdl.) BiI

Poojary Shri Janardhana Rathawa, Shri Amarsinh

Potdukhe. Shri Shantaram Rathod. Shri Uttam

• Prabhu, Shri R. Ravani, Shri Navin

Pradhan. Shri K. N. Rawat. Shri Kamla Prasad

Pradhani. Shri K. Rawat, Shri Prabhu LaI

Purushothaman, Shri Vakkom Sahi. Shrimati Krishna

Pushpa Devi, Kumari Sakargaym, Shri Kalicharan

Qureshi. Shri Aziz Salahuddin,Shri

Rai~ Shri I. Rama Sankata Prasad. Dr.

Rai, Shri Raj Kumar Sayeed. Shri P.M.

Rai, Shri Ramdeo Sen, Shri Bholanath

Raj Karan Singh. Shri Shah. Shri Anoopchand

Rajhans. Dr. G.S. Shahi, Shri Laliteshwar

Ram. Shri Ram Ratan Shailesh. Dr. B.L

Ram,ShriRamswa~ Shaktawat, Prof. Nirmala Kumari

Ram Awadh Prasad. Shri Shankaranand. Shri B.

Ram ohan. Shri Shankar Lal. Shri

Ram Prakash. Ch. Shanmcdam. Shri P.

Ram Samujhawan. Shri Sharma, Shri Chiranji laJ

Ram Singh. Shri Sharma, Shri Nand Kishore

Ramachandran, Shri MuliappaJly Sharma, Shri Pratap Bhanu

Rampal Singh. Shri Shastri, Shri Hari Krishna

Rana Vir Singh, Shri Shervani, Shri Saleem I.

Ranganath. Shri KH. Shivendra Bahadur Singh. Shri

Rao. Shri J. VengaJa Siddiq. Shri Hafiz Mohd.

Rath. Shri Somnath Sidnal. Shri S.B. 205 Constitution (Sixty- AGAAHAY ANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 206 Second Amdt) Bill & of People (Arndt) Bil

Singaravadivel, Shri S. Thorat. Shri Bhausaheb

Singh, Shri Lal Vijay Pratap Thungon, Shri P.K.

S:ngh, $~lri S.D. Tigga, Shri Simon

Singh Dea, Shri K.P. Tilakdhari Singh, Shri

Sinha, Shrimati Kishori Tombi Singh, Shri N.

Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan Tripathi. Shrimati Chandra

Sodi, Shri Mankuram Tripathi, Dr. Chandra Shekhar

Soren, Shri Harihar Tyagi, Shri Dharamvir Singh

Sparrow Shri R.S. Vanakar, Shri Punam Chand Mithabhai

Sreenivasa Prasad. Shri V. Venkatesan, Shri P.R.S.

Sukh Ram, Shri Verma, Shrimati Usha

Sultanpuri, Shri K.D. Vijayaraghavan, Shri V.S.

Suman, Shri R.P. Vir Sen, Shri

Sundararaj, Shri N. Vyas, Shri Girdhari Lal

Sunder Singh, Ch. Yadav, Shri R.N.

Surendra Pal Singh, Shri Yadav, Shri Ram Singh

Suryawanshi, Shri Narsing Yadava, Shri D.P.

Swami Prasad Singh, Shri Yazdani, Dr. Golam

SweR, Shri G.G. Yogesh, Shri Yogeshwar Prasad Tapeshwar Singh, Shri

Tariq Anwar, Shri Zainul Basher, Shri

Thakkar, Shrimati Usha MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Subject to Thara Devi, Kumari D.K correction-, the result of the Division is:

*The following Members also recorded their votes: AYES: Shri D.N. Reddy. NOES: Sarvashri Arvind Tulshiram Kamble, T. Basheer. M.l. Jhikram, Nandlal Chaudhary. KaIi Prasad Pandey and Naresh Chandra Chaturv~i. 207 Con$titution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Fl9presentation 208 Sscond Amdt.) SRI & of People (Amdt) BiI

AYES: 58 Chowhary. Shri Saifuddin

NOES: 246 Dandavate, Prof. Madhu

The motion was negatived Das. Shri R.P.

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shan now Datta. Shri Amal put Amendment No. 136 moved by Shri Saifuddin Chowdhary to the vote of the Ghosh Goswami, Shrimati Bibha House. Goswami. Shri Dinesh The questibn is: Guraddi, Shri S.M. Page 2,- Hannan Mollah. Shri after line 11, insert· Hansda, Shri Matilal ·Explanation:- For the purpose of this section. Election Commis- Het Ram. Shri sion means a three member Commission to be appointed by Iyer, Shri V.S. Krishna the President on the unanimous recommendations of a Selection Janarthanan, Shri Kadambur Committee consisting of the Chief Justice of India, the Prime· Jhansi Lakshmi. Shrimati N.P. Minister and a leader of the opposition parties to be selected Kalpana Devi. Dr. T. by the national opposition parties and groups in Parliament.· Malik. Shri Puma Chandra (136) Masudal Hossain. Shri Syed The Lole Sabha divided Mishra. Shri Satyagopal 16.25 hrs. Mukherjee, Shrimati Geeta DIvision No 13 Murty. Shri Bhattam Srirama AYES Patel, Dr. A.K Appalanarasimham, Shri P. Pathak, Shri Ananda Barman, Shri Palas Patil, Shri D.B. Basu, Shri Anil Penchalliah. Shri P. Bhoopathy, Shri G. Ramaiah. Shri B.B. Biswas, Shri Ajoy Ramashray Prasad Singh, Shri Chatterjee. Shri Somnath

C~hmy,ShriSamarB~ma Rae, Shri A.J. V.B. Maheswara 201 Constitution (Sbtty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 210 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Rao, Dr. G. Vijaya Rama Akhtar Hasan, Shri

Rao. Shri Srihari Alkha Ram, Shri

Rao. Shn V. Sobhanadreeswara Ansari. Shri Abdul Hannan

Ratnam. Shri N. Venkata Ansari. Shri Z.A.

Reddi. Shri C. Madhav Anthony, Shri P .A.

Reddy, Shri B.N. Arunachalam, Shri M.

Reddy. Shri D.N. Athithan, Shri A. Dhanuskodi

Reddy. Shri K Ramachandra Awasthi, Shri Jagdish

Reddy Shri P. Manik Azad, Shri Ghulam Nabi

Riyan, Shri Baju Ban Baghel, Shri Pratapsinh

Roy, Dr. Sudhir Bairagi, Shri Balkavi

Saha, Shri Ajit Kumar Baitha, Shri D. L.

Saba, Shri Gadadhar Bala Goud, Shri T.

Sarnbu, Shri C. Balaraman, Shri L

Sanyal, Shri Manik Banerjee, Kumari Mamata

Shahabuddin, Shri Syed Basheer, Shri T.

Thomas. Shri Thampan Bharat Singh, Shri

Tiraky, Shri Piyus Bhardwaj, Shri Parasram

Tulsiram, Shri V. Bhoi, Dr. Krupasindhu

Yadav, Shri Vijoy-. Kumar Bhosale, Shri Prataprao B. Zainal Abedin, Shri Shove, Shri S.S.

NOES Shumij, shri Horen

Abbasi, Shri KJ. Bhuria, Shri Dileep Singh

Abdul Ghailor, Shri Birbal, Shri

Ahmad, Shri Sarfaraz Birinder Singh, Shri

Ahmed. Shrimati Abida Chandrashekharappa, Shri T.V. 211 Constitution (Sbcty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 212 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

Chartes. Shri A. Gadhvi. Shri B.K

Chaturvedi. Shri Naresh Chandra Galkwad. Shri Udaysingrao

Chaturvedi, Shrimati Vldyavati Gamit, Shri C.D.

Chaudhary. Shri Manphool Singh Gavit, Shri Manikrao Hodlya

Chaudhry. Shri Kamal Gehlot. Shri Ashok

Chavd&, Shri Ishwarbhai K. Gholap, Shri S.G.

Chokka Aao, Shri J. Ghosal. Shri Debi

Choudhari. Shrimati Usha Gohil, Shri G.B.

Chaudhary, Shri Nandlal Gomango, Shri Giridhar

Dabhi. Shri Ajitsinh Gopeshwar, Shri

Dabir Singh, Shri Gounder, Shri A.S.

Dalwai. Shri Hussain Gowda, Shri H.N. Nanje

Damor. Shri Somjibhai Guha. Dr. Phulrenu

Oas, Shri Sipin Pal Gupta, Shri Janak Raj

Das. Shri Anadi Charan Gupta, Shrimati Prabhawati

Das, Shri Sudarsan Halder, Prof. M.R.

Das Munsi, Shri Priya Ranjan Harpal Singh, Shri

Dennis. Shri N. Jagan Nath Prasad. Shri

Deara, Shri Murti Jain, Shri Virdhi Chander

Dhillon. Dr. G.S. Jangde. Shri Khelan Ram

Oigal. Shri Radhakanta Jatav, Shri KammoditaJ

Oighe, Shri Sharad Jeevarathinam. Shri R.

Oigvijaya Singh, Shri Jena. Shri Chintamani

Oikshit, Shrimati Sheila Jhikram, Shri M.L

Dube, Shri Bhishma Dec Jujhar Singh, Shri

Engti. Shri Biren Singh Kamble. Shri Atvind Tulshiram 213 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation ~14 Secimd Amdt) BlI & 01 People (Amdt) 8iI

Kamla Kumari, Kumari Manorma Singh, Shrimati

Kamla Prasad Singh, Shri Mavani. Shnmati Patel Ramaben Ramjibhai Kamson. Prof. M~ijinlung Mehta, Shri Haroobhai Kaul, Shrimati Sheila Maria Kumar, Shrimati Ken. Shri Lala Ram Mishra. Shri G.S. Keyur Bhusan, Shri Mishra, Dr. Prabhat Kumar Khan, Shri Aslam Sher Mishra, Shri Ram Nagina KhcmShri Mohd. Ayub (Jhunjhunu) Mishra, Shri Shripa~i Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Udhampur) Mishra, Shri Urna Kant Kinder Lal, Shri Mohandas, Shri K. Kisku, Shri Prithvi Chand Mohanty, Shri Brajarnohan Krishna Pratap Singh, Shri Mohan, Prof. Ramkrishna Kshirsagar, Shrimati Kesharbai Motilal Singh, Shri Kuchan, Shri Gangadhar S. Mundackal. Shri George Joseph Kujur, Shri Maurice Murmu. Shri Sidha Lal Kuppuswamy, Shri C.K. Murthy. Shri M.V. Chandrashekara Kurian, Prof. P.J. Mushran. Shri Ajay Lachchhi Ram, Shri Naik, Shri Shantaram Law, Shri Asutosh Neek.hra. Shri Rameshwar Madhurae Singh, Shrimati Nagi. Shri Chandra Mohan Singh Mahabir Prasad, Shri Odeyar, Shri Channaiah Mahendra Singh, Shri Oraon. Shrimati Sumati Makwana, Shri Narsinh Pande. Shri Raj Mangal

Malik, Shri DharampaJ Singh Pandey. Shr; Damodar

Mallick. Shri lakshman Pandey, Shri Kafi Pra~

Malviya, Shri BapulaJ Pandey. Shri Madan 215 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 R9pf8S9lttation 216 Second Amdt.) Bin & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Pandey, Shri Manoj Pushpa Devi, Kumari

Panigrahi, Shri Sriballav Qureshi, Shri Aziz

Panika, Shri Ram Pyare Rai, Shri I. Rama

Parashar, Prof. Narain Chand Raj, Shri Raj Kumar

Pardhi, Shri Keshaorao Rai, Shri Ramdeo

Paswan, Shri Ram Bhagat Raj Karan SIngh, Shri

Patel, Shri Ahmed M. Rajhans, Dr. G.S.

Patel, Shri C.D. Ram, Shrt Ram Ratan

Patel, Shri G.I. Ram, Shri Ramswaroop

Patel, Shri Mohanbhai Ram Awadh Prasad, Shri

Patel, Shri U.H. Ram Dhan, Shri

Pathak, Shri Chandra Kishore Ram Prakash, Ch.

Patil. Shri Balasaheb Vikhe Ram Singh. Shri

Patil, Shri H.B. Ramachandran, Shri Mullappally

Patil, Shri Prakash V. Rampal Singh, Shri

Patil, Shri Shivraj V. Rana VIr Singh, Shri

Patil, Shri Utlamrao Ranganath. Shri K.H.

Patil, Shri Veerendra Rath. Shri Somnath

Patnaik, Shrimati Jayanti Rathawa, Shri Amarsinh

Panwar, Shri Satyanarayan Rathod, Shri Uttam

Poojary, Shri Janardhana Ravani, Shri Navin

Potdukhe. Shri Shantaram Rawat, Shri Kamla Prasad

Prabhu, Shri R. Rawat. Shri Prabhu Lal

Pradhan. Shri K.N. Sahi, Shrimati Krishna

Pradhani. Shri K. Sakargaym. Shri Kalicharan

Purushothaman, Shri Vakkom Salahuddin. Shri 217 CORstit~ (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24. 191 0 (SAKA) Representation 218 Sscond Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Sankata Prasad. Dr. Sparrow. Shri R.S__

Sayeed, Shri P.M. Sreenivasa Prasad, Shri V.

Sen, Shri Bholanath Sukh R~m, Shri

Shah, Shri Anoopchand SuJtanpuri, Shri K.D.

Shahi, Shri Laliteshwar Suman, Shri R.P.

Shailesh, Dr. B.L. Sundararaj, Shri

Shaktawat, Prof. Nirmala Kumari Sunder Singh, Ch.

Shankaranand, Shri B. Surendra Pal Singh, Shri

Shankar Lal, Shri Suryawanshi. Shri Narsingrao

Shanmugam, Shri P. Swami Prasad Singh, Shri

Sharma, Shri Chiranji Lal Swell. Shri G.G.

Sharma, Shri Nand Kishore Tapeshwar Singh, Shri

Sharma, Shri Pratap Bhanu Tariq Anwar, Shri

Shastri, Shri Hari Krishna Thakkar, Shrimati Usha

Shervani, Shri Saleem I Thara Devi. Kumari D.K.

Shivendra Bahadur Singh, Shri Thorat, Shri Bhausa:1eb

Siddiq, Shri Hafiz Mohd. Thungon, Shri P.K.

Sidnal, Shri S.B. Tigga, Shn Simon

Singaravadivel, Shri S. Tilakdhari Singh, Shri

Singh, Shri Lai Vijay Pratap Tombi Singh, Shri N.

Singh, Shri S.D. Tripathi, Shrimati Chandra

Singh Deo, Shri K.P. Tripathi, Dr. Chandra Shekhar

Siflha. Shrimati Kishori Tyagi, Shri Dharamvir Singh

Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan Vanakar, Shri Punam Chand Mithabha.

S~di. Shri Mankuram Venkatesan. Shri P .R.S.

SOI •.:n. Shn Harihar Verma, Shrimati Usha 219 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 220 S9COnd Arndt) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Vijayaraghavan, Shri V.S. SHRI AMAL DATTA (Diamond Har- bour): I beg to move: Vir Sen, Shri Page 2. lines 18 and 19,- Vyas, Shri Gridhari Lal omit "registered with the Election Yadav, Shri R.N. Commission as a political party under section 29A. (47) Yadav, Shri Ram Singh SHRI C. MADHAV REDDI (Ad'iabad): , Yadava, Shri D.P. beg to move:

Yazdani, Dr. Golam Page 2,-

Yogesh, Shri Yogeshwar Prasad for lines 17 to 19, substitute-

Zainul Basher, Shri '(t) " Political party" means an association or body of MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Subject to individual citizens of India correction-, the result of the division is: recognised by the Elec- tion Commission for the Ayes: 54 purposes of allotment of symbols under the Elec- Noes: 247 tion Symbols (Reserva- ticn and Allotment) Order The motion was negatived 1968." (84)

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Now I shall MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shall now put the remaining Amendments to Clause 2 put Amendments Nos. 47 and 84 to Clause to the vote of the House. 3 to the vote of the House.

Amendments Nos. 20, 40, 46, 57, 58, 68, Amendments Nos. 47 and 84 were put 83,91, 119, 128 and 146 were put and and negatived negatIVed. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The question is: tion is: "That Clause 3 stand part of the Bill." "That Clause 2 stand part of the Bill." The motion was adopted The motion was adopted Clause 3 was added to the Bill Clauss 2 was added to the Bill. Clause 4 Clause 3

(Amendment of Section 2) (Amendment of Section 3)

-The following Members also recorded their votes: AYES: Shri Basudeb Acharia. NOES: Dr. Rajendra Kumari Bajpai,Shri Bhanu Pratap Singh, Shrimati Sunderwati Nawal Prabhakar and Shrimati Basavarajeswari. 221 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 222 Second Arndt.} Bill & of Psople (Amdt.) Bill

SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: I beg to omit "and sentence to imprison- move: ment for not less than six months." (13)

Page 3,- Page 3,-

after line 29, insert - after line 33, insert -

"(e) any provisions of Forest Act, 1927, .. (2A) A person guilty of female infan- Forest Conservation Act, 1980, the ticide including the destruction of fe- Environment (Protection) Act, 1986 or male foetus (excepting in Medical any other law relating to preservation, Termination of Pregnancy) shall be protection or improvement of environ- disqualified for a period of she years.· ment." (1) {14)

SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: beg to move: PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I beg to move: Page 2. lines 26 and 27. - Page3.- Omit "language, etc., and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance after line 17, insert - of harmony" (7) (i) section 7 of the Religious Institutions Page 2, hne 35, - (Prevention of Misuse) Act, 1988," (21)

for "classes" substItute "communi- Page3,- ties" (8) a.fter line 19, insert - Page3,- "(1 A) A candidate shall also Omit lines 1 to 5. (9) be disqualified for a period of six years if his deCiarmion page 3,- of assests is found to !J,. false by a court of law." (2::) omit lines 9 to 11. (10) SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: I beg to Page 3, lines 12 and 13, - move:

Omil"section 125 (offence of Page 3,- promoting enmity between classes in connection with the after line 19, insert - election) or" (11)

Page 3,- .. 1 A) A person shall also be disquali- after line 17, insert - fied for six years, if it is found that he was holding any office of profit under (i)the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1988 mthe the Government of India or any legisla- Official Secrets Act, 1923,· (12) tive body or was a Chairman anellor a director of a society, public limited Page 3, line 30, - company and/or corporation,· (36) 223 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 224 Second Amdt.) BiR & of People (Amdt.) Bill

SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY fifty grams of gold." beg to move: Shall also be disqualified for a period of six Page 3, years. (115)

after line 39, insert- Page 3,-

" (4) Any person, contesting an elec- after line 33, insert- tion, exploiting the religious feelings of the people during campaign like visit- "(2A) A person guilty of harassing the ing the places of worship, extracting share croppers shall also be religious oath from the people or disqualified for a period of six making religious appeal for furthering years." (116) his or her and the party's prospect In the eJection shall be deemed to be SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY: I commlttmg an offence which shall beg to move: disqualify him for six years from contesting and election" (59) Page 3. hnes 31 to 33,-

SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: I beg to Omit "and shall continue to be dis- move qualified for a further period of six years since his release." Page 3. line 3D, - (122),

for" six months" substitute" one month" SHRI VIJOY KUMAR YADAV : I beg to (98) move:

SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS : I beg to Page 2. line 35.- move: for "classes" substitute" castes and Page 3,- communities" (129)

after line 19, Insert- Page 3, line 13-

"(1A) A person who IS- tor .. classes" substitute ,. castes and communities" (130) \3) drug addIct and who IS habltu· ated to wine or addicted to any otht:'r intoxication: or SHRJ AJAY MUSHRAN: J beg to move:

(b) guilty of tax evasion; or Page 3, line 19,-

(C) having properties, both movable and immovable in excess of ceil- add at the end Ing; or "except for conviction under the NarcotIc Drugs and Psy- (d) having more than one wife or chotrop1c Substances Act, 1985 concubine; or for which disqualification shall be for twelve years from the date (e) having more than one house or of such conviction." (138) 225 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 226 S9Cond Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: I beg to Secondly, six months conviction which move: ~s provided under the Bill should be reduced to one month because no court of law Page 3,- awards punishment upto six months. It will give punishment for one month. Only. after line 33, insert - Therefore, this period should be reduced to one month. "Provided that a person who is convicted of violating the law SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: In relating to adulteration of food or clause 4(1) various offences punishable drugs, being an office bearerof a under section 153 A of the Indian Penal cooperative society or having Code have been mentioned. In that there is mere association with that asso- the section for "promoting enmity between ciation in that capacity but is not different groups on groundsof rGligion, race, involved in the actual process of place of birth, residence, language, etc. and adulteration of food or drugs, doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of shall not be disquallfied."(156): narmony". Here since this is a question of disqualification for standing, I would like that SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I beg to 'language' be taken out from here, a"d also move" the words 'acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony'. Why do I want this is, say, if today page 3,- there is a big agitation for the inclusion of Manipuri language in the Eighth Schedule after line 11, insert- and if some others construe it to be enmity With another language, that can be a dis- "(h) section 7 (Offence of contra- qualifying clause. Therefore, I do not want vention of the provisions of sec- the word' language' to remain here for this tions 3 to 6) of the Religious purpose. Then, Sir, 'harmony' also is a very Institutions (Prevention of MIS- wide word. It can be used for anything that it use) Act, 1988, or" (163). is disturbing harmony. Therefore. for this disqualification clause~ I think that 'harmony' Page 3, line 12,- should also go out. for '(h) substitute (i)" (164) Then Sir, 'come to sub-clause (d) on page 3, lines 1 to 5 where it is said what are the offences for which one may be disquali- SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: Various fied. It is said "sections 10 to 12 (offence of Acts have been mentioned here like the being a member of an association declared Food Adulteration Act, Dowry Prohibition unlawful, offence relating to dealing with Act, Commission of Sati Act, etc. And you funds of ·an unlawful association. offence are providing for six months imprisonment relating to contravention of an order made in for the offences committed under these respect of a notified places" I do not want Acts. But one important Act has been omit- this clause to remain like this. Who wiH be ted for which we are al1 concerned and that interpreting what unlawful activity is? We is the protection of Environment Act. There- have had a very pungent experience. Our fore, my amendment says that any person party in West 8engal was declared unlawful who commits offence under various Acts and from that organisation, from under- mentioned in clause 4, any item relating to ground, Kansari Halder did contest and won preservation and improvement of environ- by a thumping majority. which is often not ment shall also be included. If we are con- lund in any other constituency. Now. if Kan- cerned with the preservatiOn of the enV'iron- sari Halder would have contested today, he ment, this item has to bEffncluded. '",ould have been barred by this unlawful 227 ConstitLltion (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 228 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

[Smt. Geeta Mukherjee] Commission of Sati (Prevention) Act, etc. have been mentioned. If one is convicted business. I know that at the end of it1here are under these Acts, then a sentence to impris- certain other things which will be put on my onment for not less than six months shall be test by Shankaranand Ji, that is, about relig- -disqualified etc. etc. I do not think that six ious places, etc. But for that there is another months should be the criteriaL For support- law. That law has already been proposed ing Sati if one has been convicted, say, for and you have agreed t01ake it up. So, forthat less than six months, there is no reason why the whole unlawful need not be entered. for supporting Sati he should not be de- Who knows AliS.amrat Kali She bandi Kutlfe barr~d fram this. Therefore. I wanted that the Rajar Pratidwandi"? Today you may be an words "sentence to imprisonment for less emperor, tomorrow you may be a prisoner. than six months"to be taken out of this. In the So, think over before making this general beguming itself, it is there,-that is a person unlawful as a clause. convicted by a court in India for contravention of" . Then, Sir, my next amendment is about the terrorist and disruptive activities. Now. That is enough. So~ this period of six those who are convicted under this law will months is not necessary here. also be deoarred from standing. We are against terrorists. I need not declare that we Then Sir, I have added another point are paying our blood for fighting against the that there cannot be any law quoted. But I terrorists. But when this law was passed, we believe a law will definitely be passed on this, vehemently opposed because this encom- that is, person guilty of female infanticide p'asses the whole area where absolutely including the destruction of female fetus, innocent people may also be convicted in the exception in medical termination of Special Courts and then they will be out of it. pregnency, shall be disqualified for a period Then they will have this clause of not being of six years, About that law, you have not able to stand against them. So, this can be said. That idea should come into this Bill and used for that purpose. Therefore, I wanttotal the persons convicted of this crime should deletion of this sub-clause (g) that is, the be forthwith disqualified. conviction under the Terroriets and Disrup- tive Activities (Prevention) Actshould not be Sir, one more amendment I have forgot- a disqualifying clause. ten, From my point of view, it is very important. Now, there is one thing. One will be Then, where there are laws on which debarred under the Penal Code. But I do not this conviction is to be taken as disqualifying agree with the Penal Code on this question, clause, among them I have also wanted the that is, regarding and offence of making inclusion of two laws. One is the Prevention statement for creatiOQ or promoting enmity of Corruption Act, 1988 which has~ been or ,hatred or ill-will between two cJasses. agreed upon on principle. Haroobhai Ji did Now, Sir, in our language, there is a defini- thank for it. I do not clsi1n to be thanked but tion of classes, that is , economically op- thank that it has been taken up. I have also pressed class and exploited class. So, I want inefuded another Ac;:t along with it - the that the word ~'community' should be there Official Secrets Act of 1923. Should a Per- jnstead of 'classes' because they are at the son, who has' been proved as a foreign receiving end. ' agtmt, be allowed to stand? 1do not think so. Therefdre, the Offidal Secrets Act also PRoF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Ra- should be a d~squalifying clause. japur): Sir, 1 have two amendments. One amend,meflt that one, qf the grounds of the Then, S.r, there is another clause given disqualificqtion shou1$l be section 7 of the her~. That is regarding '-the sub-clause(2) religjous l~titutiQn' (Prevention of Misuse) where Ute DoWry Prohibition Act, the Act 1988 and iftnat is violated, that should be 229 ConsIitlJtion (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24.1910 (SAKA) Representation 230 Second Arndt.) BRI & of People (Arndt.) 8ill the disqualification. The hon. Minister has convicted on that ground are not disqualified already move a separate amendment and and also people who give the secrets of this therefore I will not press it. It is an identical country to other countries and involve in amendment. Of course, it could have been such activities are not debarred. I would like passed. He could allo~ my amendment to be to say that under the Food Adulteration Act passed. But he does not want the Opposition the onus of proof is on the accused and the amendmentto be passed. It does not matter. person being a President or an office bearer But one good thing that has happened is that of a cooperative society, IS merely eleded ,my amendment to sub-clause (i) you are because of his public activity. But the onus of putting under (h). You are upgrading my proof is on him and also he is in possession amendment. So I don't mind it. of an article which was adulterated by somebody else because something is pur- Then my amendment 22 is another chases for the purpose of sale, which is ground for disqualification. That is a candI- found in his possession, which is an offence date shall be disqualified for a penod of six and he is convicted and it is mandatory that years if his declaration of his assets is found the court has to impose a conviction if it IS to be false by a court of law. We want that found in the pOssession of a cooperative candidate should file his assets and liability society. Suppose the President of a Super statement to the Returning Officer and on Bazar is there. In a Super Bazar there are 20 any occasion on their submitting them if tl-.9 or 25 agencies. There when the proof is court finds that it is talse, in that case also this taKen against a person, he has to be con- should be the ground for disqualification Victed by a Magistrate. Such people cannot Here also just as the first one you have be left. Recently two cases have come to acoepted, you will fCDUOW SUIt and you will me. about which I know personally. Tilere accept the second one. also the same thing happened. With these two things I would like my suggestions to be SHRJ THAMPAN THOMAS (Mav- taken note of and my amendments ac· elikara): Sir, I have two amendments, that is, cepted. Amendment No. 36 and Amendment No. 156. Sir, amendment No 36. intends to say SHRI SAIFUODIN CHOWOHAAY: Mr. which are the offices of profit Several people Deputy-Speaker, Sir my amendment No. 59 who hold offices, conneded with the Gov- reads like this: ernment, said that it is not clearly defined and therefore my amendment suggests that "(4) Any person, contesting an elec- a person shall also be disqualified for six tion, exploiting the religious feel- years if he is holding any office of profit in the ings of the people during cam- Government of India or any legislative body paign tike visiting the places of or a chairman or a Director of a society, worship, extradrng religIOUS public limited company or a Corporation. Sir, oath from the people or making the includence of the people in a public religious appeal for furthering limited company and other Govemment hts or her and the party's pros- bodies is well known. Therefore, to exclude pect tn the election shall be them I have brought in this amendment. The deemed to be committing 01' second amendment No. 156 is arising out of offence which shall disqualify my own.personal experience. It was brought him for six years from contesting to the notice of the House that the maip thing an election." has not bean included.as disquaJification because the small fishes' have been caught NowjSir, we have provision for dIsquali- and the big fishes are escaping. fication on the ground of creating disunity on the basis of religion, caste and other things. Sir, under the ~j-corruption taw where But we have to go to the root. It IS not that

there is a chargey such .. people who 'are relig10n by itself is batt. But politicians may 231 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 RfllJl'6S9fltation ~ Second Arndt.) 8ill & Df People (Amdt) Bill

(Sh. Saifuddin Choudhary) constitution of the Indian National Congress. On Page 6 where it refers to 'effective be bad in our country today and when a membership' it is written there that politician exploits religion, there he tums to communalism, just as some time ago we [Eng/ish] heard a lecture from the Prime Minister on Secularism. But I want to say that if this He abstains from alcoholic drinks and intoxi- amendment is accepted, then our intention cant drugs. to free politics from religion and effect sepa- ration. wilt be achieved. How, one question f Translation] can be raised as to how we can debar a member, a religious person who, 365 days in But clause 'G' says: a year, goes to the places of worship. Now can we debar him durmg the electIOn cam- [Eng/ish] paign from going to a place of worship? We can discuss this and make arrangement for He does not own any property in excess exemptiOn for these people. But those per- of ceiling laws as applicable. sons, for instance. if we take the case of the Leader of the House who never goes all the [ Translation] other days of the year to any place of worship, but during campaign he thinks that he In-spite of the enactment of a law on has to go to a place of worship, on that land ceiling, many people stili have surplus ground he should be disqualified. (/ntBITUp- land. They have retained it in the name of tions) Hyou are serious. you accept it. their pet dogs and cats. In fad even today there is no ceiling on property because the [ Translation] term property' includes gold, cash and build- ings. So this Bill needs to be introduced to SHRI ANADI CHARAN DAS (Jaipur): define the word 'property'. If this is not done, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, we have pledged there is no point in maintaining it in the to make India a sovereign socialist republIC. constitution of the Congress party. Every Through this Sin we have added the words party has some members who have land in 'principle of socialism, secularism and de- excess of the ceiling. These--members c0n- mocracy' for the purpose of registration of a test elections and such a Bill is necessary for new party. This is most welcome. them. So I have based my amendment on certain points like a person who has surplus A party whtch fieJds a candidate should property. evades taxes, keeps a mistress or ensure that its candidate has faith in social- has a large quantity of gold or cash, or is ism and is against the capitalist system. habituated to intoxicants or indulges in the Further it should also be ensured that the harassment of the poor. should be da- party candidate is a noble person and is In no baned. I wish the Government to accept it. I way prejudicial to the general interests of the support the BiU which has been introduced society. That is why , have brought in this here but at the same time I would requestthe Amendment. house to accept my proposal.

[English] SHAt ,VLJOY KUMAR YADAV (Nal- anaa): My amendments no. 129 and 130 are -drug addict and who is habituated to very minor ones. The constitution says that wine or addicted to any other intoxication.· we have adopted the socialist system of Government. I 1ee1 that the provision for the [ Translation] disqualification of a person who speaks out or displays an ill-will against capitalism is in The same thing has been m&Ationed in the violation of the constitution. Hence the word 233 Constitution (Sixty- AGAAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 234 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

'class' should be deleted and substhuted by convention by accepting this amendment the words 'caste and community' because which is for the good of the people and the the war we have waged against the caste good of the younger people. system and poverty. will continue. It cannot be stopped. SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY (Puri): My amendment IS very simple, in the [English] sense, I invite the attention of the hon. Min-

ister to Clause 1. Clause 1 simply says U a SHRI AJAY MUSHRAN (Jabalpur): person convicted under the offence is pun- Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, my amendment IS i~hable under". But, no specific punishment specifically for increasing the disqualifica- has been specified tion period for offences listed at sub-section (f), i.e. those who are convicted under the In Clause 2 it is said "sentenced to Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Sub- imprisonment for not less than six months." stances Act. For all other seven types of offences, the disqualification period has I do not understand what is the differ- bee n stipulated for six years. I am stipulating ence. Does the Government consider that in my amendment that those who are con- the offences enumerated in Clause 1 are victed under the Narcotic Drugs and Psy- less than the offences enumerated in Clause chotropic Substances Act, should be de- 2? You know thC1t so far as the Indian Penal barred for 12 years. As a matter of fact, the Code is concerned, the criminal jurispru- other types of offences are not as much dence was built up during those days to affecting the society as it affects under the support the feudal order and that is why the Narcotics Act. Today, take for example, offences against person was considered of Delhi where there are 70,000 drug addicts lesser gravity. and for each of them there is a courier and organiser which is a lucrative illegal and In this case, why are you so cruel to most destructive trade. Even in Pakistan, these offences that only when six months their Prime Minister has recently said that sentence will be there, he will be disquali- their problem No. 1 is drug trafficking. We fied? have also recently, about half-an-hour ago amended the Constitution and dropped the SHRI B. SHAN'KARANAND: With re- voting age limit from 21 to 18 years. Out of gard to the amendment for protection of 70,000 people who are affected and ad- -environment, the hon. Member'S suggestion , dieted to drugs in Delhi, a large majority is, of course. appreciable. But, I do not think ,ponsists of people between 18 and 20 years. we can put this as a disqualification for the To save them and to put the fear of deterrent purpose of contesting the elections. The punishment in the minds of younger people House may appreciate that we did consider who have some how become the victims of in the Cabinet this aspect. this drug addiction,.1 very strongly plead that at least disqualification period should be SHRI AJAY MUSH RAN: You are bring- increased from 6 years to 12 years. More- ing Section 2 for similar offences. over, in this very House, in the near future, either in this Session or in the coming ses- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Another sion you are going to debate a Bill in which hon. Member said about the language. I do for drug trafficking, the punishment is going not think that there is any ambiguity in the to be recommended, if I am not wrong, up to Clause that we have. I do not think that death penalty. If we are taking drug addiction dissension and ambiguity is created by the so strongly, I personally feel that we must language. I do not think that there is any atso take into acCount these people. (Inter- ambiguity in the Clause. ruptions). This is a historic Bill. I only urge ldo not think that we accept that amend- that the han. Minister will make a historic ment also. 235 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 236 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

[Sh. B. Shankaranand1 SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: What I said was that he is quoting Gandhiji for this Some han. Members asked what is purpose. I don't say he is outmoded. Only wrong if he is only a member of the unlawful you have said so. I am very happy that association. (Interruptions). At least we on somebody is thinking of Gandhiji even at this this side do not subscribe to your thinking hour. and there are many more on that side also. Perhaps I am not going to accept your PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: They amendment. Even the amendment is sought are Gandhians ... (Interruptions) in respect of the people who are indulging In terrorist and disruptiv-e activities. I wonder SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (Bankura): how Members can dare say this, for the When you don't think of Gandhiji, they are purpose of making them Members of this thinking of him. (Interruptions) House. How can we have such people in this House who are indulging in disruptive and SHRl B. SHANKARANAND: Regard- terrorist activities and who are members of 109 certain additions like Prevention of Cor- the unlawful activities? 00 you want these ruption Act. Official Secrets Act, Anti-Cor- peopleto be membersofthis House? Ida not ruption Act and other things, extracting oath -J,hink the House will accept this. (Interrup- from voters on religious grounds, interest- tions). I thinkJhis should have been raised in ingly somebody suggested that somebody the legislative Assembly of your State. should not be allowed to contest, he should (Interruptions). Ctd by ZZZ Regarding other be nisquaJifJed because that somebody is additions? they said about the innocent visiting temples. (Interruptions) people. It is not that merely because any person is a Member of any unlawful aSSOCia- SHRI SAIFUDD IN CHOWDHARY tion, he is disqualified. It is only on conviction (Katwa): During all the days in a year, such a pers,?n is disqualified. It is not like that somebody doesn't visit temples. Only during being a Member of some body, he is dIS- elections he goes there ... (Interruptions) qualified. (Interruptions) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He may SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: If Gandhiji have faith on that day. He may have so much were alive today. according to this provision, faith. he could not contest the elections because he was picketing the offices, participating in ( Interruption) the freedom movement and in the trade union struggle. (Interruptions) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Order plea~e. You please listen to the Minister's SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Are you reply. citing Gandhiji for this purpose? ( Interr!Jp!ions) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Even Shri Thampan Thomas wants to become a MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Ajay Gandhiji. Mushran, why are you s~ agitated? What is this?

( /IJ~ruptiOllS) (Interruptions) SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: ForUJ- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Mr. nately, this is yo,,!, ._custom. ,Please try to Thampan Thomas is so outmoded because learn something. lry to learn to listen. I do he is speaking about Gandhiji. (Interrup- not want to Je~rn anything. You please learn tions) to listen. (Interruptions) 237 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Repr8Silntation 238 Second Amdt.} Bill & of Peop/8 (Amdt.) Bill

SHAI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHAAY: I am grateful to Professor Dandavate Some people are misusing religious places. and I am grateful to Shri Haroobhai Mehta who have suggested amendments which SHRI AJAY MUSHRAN: When you are they have moved and we requested them to not believing in religion, why are you speak- agree to our amendments. We don"t claim ing? (Interruptions) that is it our amendment. We have said that these are their amendments. (Interruptions) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Oon't waste the time. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: I was only enquiring whether you had withdrawn it. ( Interruptions) SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: How can MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will I? I have already moved it. That is why I say go on record except the Minister's reply. that list is not exhaustive. This is the Only the Minister's reply will go on record. reason... ( Interruptions)

( Inteffuptions)", SHR1MATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: What is wrong with the Official Secrets Acts? 17.00 hrs. SHRI B. SHANKARANANO: It is al- SHRI B. SHANKARANANO: I am ready there. First of all, I request the House aware of some people because I have been to accept my amendments and then reject in politics before independence, not now. I other amendments. know people who openly and in public plat- forms say that they do not believe in religion, MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I am putting but actually, they practice it. We know some the Government amendments first for adop- people are there. There is no law which tion and then I shall take up other amend- punishes and which recognises it as an ments. offence if somebody visits temple and other places. There is no law. You must read the The question is: section which says, only if a person is convicted then he is disqualified. I you can't Page 3, understand this, what can I do? (Interrup- tions) after line 11, insert- Please try to learn. You have a great future in this country. (Interruptions) "(ht section 7 (offence of CfOntra- vantion of the provisions of sections 3 to 6) of 1 cannot 'compete with the hon. Mem- the Religious Institutions (Prevention of bers. , will only say that this is.not all exhaus- Misuse) Act, 1988; or· (163) tive. I don't say that the list is exhaustive. It is not the claim of the Government that we page 3, line 12. - have put all the offences which should be considered and under which persons should for "(h)" SUbstitute U(i)" (164) be disqualified. But you have made suggestions. Of course, we will see to it and they The motion was adopted deserve consideration. But, at the moment, opposition should not oppose these provi- MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What about sions and they should support the amend- the members who are withdrawing their ments. (Interruptions) amendments

"Not recorded. 239 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 240 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: I seek section shall come into leave of the I-;Iouse to withdraw my amend- operation after the Parliament by ments Nos/and 98 law sets up an independent Secretariat of Election Commis- Amendments Nos 1 and 98 were, by leave sion and the Commission is withdrawn given totcH ~hority over the electoral staff employed by the SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY: Commission independent otthe seek leave of the House to withdraw my control of the Union Govern- amendment No 122. ment." (41)

Amendment No 122 was, by leave, SHRI AMAL DATTA: I beg to move: withdrawn Page 4, lines 10 to 12,- SHAI AJA Y MUSHRAN: I seek leave of the House to withdraw my amendment No omit "and accordingly, such offi- 138. cers shall, during that period, be subject to the control, superin- Amendment No 138 was, by leave, tendence and discipline of the withdrawn Election Commission." (48)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I shall now SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: I beg put rest of the amendments to the vote of the to move: House. Page 4, line 6,- Amendments Nos 7 to 14, 21 22, 36, 59, 115, 116, 129, 30 and 156 were put and after "shall" insert- negatived. "Subject to the consent of the MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques- State Government con- tion is: cerned," (60)

"That Clause 4 as amended stand part of Page 4, line 12- the Bill.- add at the end- The motion was adopted Monly in respect of the work as- ClaUSB 4, as amendfld, was added to the signed to them in connection Bill with the election and for no other purpose.- (61) ClauseS SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: (Insertion of new section 28 A) beg to move:

SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I beg to Page 4,- mov~ after Hne 12. insert- Page 4.- "Provided tnat during the period after line 12, insert- commencing on and from the date of the notification calling for "Provided that tha proviSion of th,s such elections and endtng With 241 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Represtmtation 242 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt) Bill

the date of the declaration of visional auth.ority governing such election, the Election services of any such officers in Commission shall exerCIse ex- the matter of acts of indiscipline clusive control and superinten- during the course of election dence. over Doordarshan and process, the Election Commis- Akashvani.· (62) sion shall be sole disciplinary authority with powers to impose SHRI SYEO SHAHABUDDIN: I bag to penalties, provided for under the move: law and, the concerned law dealing with disciplinary matters Page 4, line 11.- related to the officers concerned, shall stand amended to after '10 theW insert "exclusive" (69) that extent for the limited purpose and, any provision with SHRI C. MADHAV REDDI: I beg to respect to the appeal and or move: revision available to the officers in the usual course, under the Page 4, lines 6 and 7,- said law, shall stand suspended to that extent." (99) for "deemed to be on deputation to" SUbstitute "under the general super- SHRIMATI GEEfA MUKHERJEE: intendence of" (85) beg to move:

DR. A.K. PATEL: I beg to move: Page 4, line 7.-

Page 4, IFnes 5 and 6,- after "commission" insert-

for "ThiS part, and any police officer "provided the St:lte Government designated for the time being by concerned ~gree" (123) the State Government, for the conduct of any election- SHRI AMAR ROYPRADHAN: I beg to move: substitute- Page 4, line 12,- "this Part and the Directors- General of Doordarshan add at the end- and Akashvani and the en- "with the consent of the State tire staff of the news sec- Government concar ned" tions of both the Ooord- (117) arshan and Akashvani shall be deemed" (92) SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: ThIS is similar to my amendment No. 40 regarding SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: I beg to an independent secretariat. A very peculiar move: argument has been advanced by Mr Shank- aranand and the Prime Minister that if you Page 4,- want to have an independent secretariat or a muhi member commission, then you are after line 12, insert- casting reflection on the Commission. Actu- ally those who have faith In the institution "Provided that notwithstanding any they want to strengthen it and those who law providing for disciplinaryl want the institutiof'l to be pliable, they don' punishing and appellate/re- want to strengthen it. 243 Constitution {Sixty- DECEMBER 15.1988 Representation 244 Second Amdt.J SiR & of People (Amdt.) 8171

[Sh. Dinesh Goswamij I think. you should not have any objection to this. When Mr. Vithalbhai Patel wanted to strengthen the office of the Speaker, did he SHAI SYEO SHAHABUDDIN: This is cast reflection on the office? When Mr. similar to Clause 2 of this Bill. The Han. Mavalankar wanted to strengthen the office Minister has given us a very laborious expla- of the Speaker, did he cast reflection on nation including some Mudras. But that has himseH or on Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru? not really convinced us. What I want to be sure about is that if the Election Commission May I point out to you that the Electi 10 decides that an officer on deputation has Commission itseH has recommended for J 1e committed an act and suggests a punish- creation of a department of election? If }.)u ment, will that be final or whether that will be ~ke, look to your own book published by Mr. subjec.t to further inquiry by the parent de- Gadgil of the AICC. There is a suggestion for partment or the parent Government? strengthening the Election Commission. I don't know why you are not accepting this SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA amendment. RAO: In addition to what my leader Shri Madhav Reddi said earlier I would like to SHRI AMAL DATTA: I have already emphaSise till such time that the Election spoken on this subject, except that I strongly Commission convinces all the political par- object to what Mr. Shankaranand has said in ties that it is acting quite independently, for repiy to what we have said earlier. example, I would like to say before Tripura electi.Jns had taken place the activities of We don't for a moment suspect the TNV volunteers and escalated with the integrity of the Election Commission. But w~ connivance of the ruling party and before the want to see that the independence is as- elections you had deployed a very large sured by statute. Unless that is done, we Will number of CRPF people to bring a psycho- not give more power to the Election Com mis- logical atmosphere to infllJence the voters. sion. Now you are doing the same thing in Tamil Nadu. You have sent some thousands of SHRt SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: My para-military forces there as if the additional amendment reads like this: reserve police battalions are not there. (In- terruptions) "Provided that during the period commencing on and ft om the date of the no- Sir, not only that we should do justice tification calling for such elections and but it must appear to be so. There is another ending with the date of the declaration equally important aspect of election. The of such election. the Election Commis- ruling party is misusing the AIR and Doord- sion shall exercise exclusive control arshan to a very very great extent. So why and superintendence over Doord- not AIR and Do\)rdarshan be brought under arshan and Akashvani" the purview of the Ejection Commission at least during the period of elections. I would I find that you have so much confidence like to point out in Great Britain the BBC has in the Etection Commission, that you are got guts to comment that some of the actions giving the officials of the State Government of Mrs. Margaret Thatcher are dictatorial and under their deputation for this period of ejec- her economic policies are gOing in a wrong tion. So, to be fair and fcar the interest of way. It has got guts to say so and the :_ etter use of this media, you should accept Government there could not do anything to this amendmeflt of giving Doordarshan and that autonomous corporation. (Interrup- Akashvani under the superintendence of the tions) EJectton Commission during the period of election. Let our AIR and Doordarshan also be 245 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 246 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill under the purview of the Election Commis- say. They say: No, no, this ;s not aceptable sion during the period of elections. Then we to us. All the staff should not be given under can agree to this type of amendment. I the control of the Election Commission. It request the Government to accept the should be under the disciplinary authority of amendment. the State Government. Those people, who were telling so then, within fifteen minutes, THE MINJSTER OF PARLIAMEN- have changed their view and they say, no, it TARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF IN- should be given. FORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT): Several policies of SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Be fair to the Government have been criticised on AIR us. and Doordarshan by several speakers including some of you sitting op~sne. (Inter- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I am not ruptions) talking to you. (Interruptions)

DR. A.K. PATEL (Mehsana): Sir, the Is that cap fitting you? (Interruptions) idea to bring this electoral reforms Bill was to That cap does not fit you. conduct the elections free and fair but the purpose will not be served by this Bill. TV and SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: AIR are misued by the ruling party. So I Clause 2 has been voted. That is a part of the suggest they should be under autonomous Bill now. Therefore, we are trying to say organisation so that there is no propaganda something. for the ruling party. Secondly negative powers should not be given to the electoral SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Quite officers. Only positive power should be given right. (Interruptions) I am coming to your to them. So I press to accept my amend- point. (Interruptions) You are asking about ment. TV and AIR that this authority also should be given to the Election Commission. That is SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: Sir, my what the Members say. May I take it that the amendment IS similar to the one which I had hon. Members agree to my amendment? moved earlier. It relates to indiscipline. ( Interruptions) Powers of punishing indiscipline lie else- where, that is, in service rules. By this In addition to that, they want to say that amendment Election Commission cannot on TV and AIR also they should be given the punish anybody who is put at the disposal of authority ... (Interruptions) So, I presume that the Election Commission even for a tempo- they accept my amendment as far as clause rary period. So what are we going to do if an 5 is concerned (Interruptions) off;cialcommits an act of indiscipline? This is my amendment. My I say one word? TV and Radio are not the subject-matter of the diSCUSSion. As SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, beTore a matter of fact, the Members on our side replying to each of the members observa- have a grievance against the Mlnisterthat hE: tions I could see a little difference in their is presenting the Opposition leaders too argument when they were speaking about much. (Interruptions) We have really many Clause 2 and now about clause 5. People Members on our side who say that we are who totally opposed Clause 2 are now giving more time to the Opposition leaders. coming to say that 'no' 'no' you give something to the Election Commission so that they function independently. I am really SHAI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: surprised. There is some diffrence. So I Then, he should give it to the Election realty wonder what the members want to Commission. (/nterroptions) 247 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Repr'!.ssntation 248 Sscond Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) 8;71

SHRIB.SHANKARANAND: Theon~ Amendment No. 99 was, by /save, grievance of the h.on. Members seems to 00 withdrawn. that TV should shut up as far as the Prime Minister is concerned. That is what you want MR. OEPUTY SPEAKER: I shaU now to say. The question is. first, one has to put the rest of the amendments to clause 5 to become the Prime Minister so that hIS photo the vote of the House. comes in the televiSion. Why are you worried about that? Have you anything agamst that. Amendments Nos. 41, 48,60,61,62,69, (Interruptions) This is the argument. ('nter- 85, 92. 117 and 123 were put and nega- ruptions) I said in a lighter moment. The tived. problem is whether the Prime Minister - should be shut up from TV and Radio. Is it MR. OEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- your argument? tion is:

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Who "That clause 5 stand part of the Bill. • says? It is advantageous to us. Let it be there on the TV. The motion was adopted.

SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT: You are all Clause 5 was added to the Bill. being covered more than me because you speak more. Clause 6

SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: The Prime Insertion of new Part IV A Minister is helping the poor people to realise their electoral nghts. Do you want to sup- ~HRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: press them? Naturally we want everybody, oeg to move: who supports the rights of the poor people, to be televised. We are very proud of the Prime Page 4,- Minister that he IS gOing round the country and telling the people the philosophy of our Omit lines 23 to 26. (15) party. Page 5, line 10,- So, Sir, I am not acceptIng any suggestion. Of course, one suggestion was made after "Secularism" insert "world by Mr. Shantaram Na;k about the discipli- peace" (16) nary authonty. There 15 a point in what he said, but dUring the election period and dur- Page 5,- ing the dates whiCh have beel) mentioned in the amending Bill, I hope, the Members have omit lines 12 and 13. (17) no objection to this amendment. The objection raised is not with reference to amend- PROF MADHU DANDAVATE: I beg to ment but the purpose of the amendment is move: whether Ejection Commission can act as a discipli~;ary authOrity to punish a partICular Page 4,- officer. The disciplinary proceedings can be in;tiated by the Election Commission and it is Omit lines 22 to 29. (23) finally for the diSCiplinary authority to take action aga;nst those officers. Page 5,-

SHRI SHAN rARAM NAlK: I seek leave for lines 9 to 11, substitute- of the House to withdraw my amendment. No 99 "of India as by law established and 249 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 250 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

would uphold the sovereignty, Page 5,- unity and integrity of India." (24) after line 11, insert- Page 5.- "Provided that where an associa- for line 25, substitute- tion or body is in existence at the commencement of the Represen- "(8) An appeal against the deci- tation of the People (Amendment) sions of the Commission shall lie Act, 1983, and the memorandum with the Supreme Court." (25) or rules and regulations of the association or body does not con- SHRI G.M. SANATWALLA: I beg to tain any specific provision as afore- move: said, the application made under sub-section (1) shall contain and Page 4. line 25,- undertaking that the memorandum or rules and regulations shall be for "sixty days" substitute "ninety duly amended to include such a days" (29) specific provision." (33)

Page 4, line 28,- Page 5, line 19-

for "thirty days" substitute "ninety after "or" insert- days" (30) ..or reasons to be recorded in writ· Page 4.- ing."

after line 29. insert- Page 5,-

"Provided that the Election for line 25. substitute- Commission may, on being satisfied that there is good reason or "(8) Any association or body ag- justification, relax or extend the grieved by any decision under sub- aforesaid period within which an section (7) refusing to register it as application for registration is to be a political party may. within SIXty made or it may condone the failure days from the date communicating to make the application within the such decision, prefer an appeal to aforesaid period." (31) the High Court within the local limits of whose jurisdictbn the head SHRI HAROOBHAI MEHTA: I beg te office of such association or body is move: located.· (35) I

Page 5, line 11,- SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I beg to move: add at the end- Page 5,- "and that its membership is open to all citizens irrespective of his relig- after line 30, insertion, race, community, caste, place of birth or sex. " (32) "Provided that an association or body already registered as a politi- SHRI G.M. SANATWALLA: I beg to cal party by the Commission under move: the Election Symbol (Reservation 251 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 252 Second Amdt.) Bill & of Peopl9 (Amdt) BiD

[Sh. Dinesh Goswami] and not otherwise." (55)

and allotment} order 1968 shall be Page 5.- deemed to be registered under the provision of this part, on submis- for line 25, substrtute- sion of memorandum or rules and regulations or such associations or "(8) There shall be an appeal body conforming to the provisIons against the order of the Commis- of sub-section (5), If the memoran- sion to the Supreme Co.u1 in case dum or rules and regulations sub- of National Parties and to the High mitted under the symbol order do Courts in case of regional parties." not contain the specific provIsion (56) required under the sub-section." (42) SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: I beg to move: SHRI AMAL DATTA: I beg to move: Page 4,- PageS,- after hne 21 insert- Omit lines 12 and 13 (49) "Provided that no political party Page 5, lines 14 to 17,- shall be eligible for registration unless it has held and holds free omit "After considering all the par- elections of Its office bearers at ticulars as aforesaid in its posses- least once in three years: (63) sion and any other necessary and relevant factors and after giving the Page 4, hne 42- representatives of the association or body reasonable opportunity of add at the end- being heard; (50) ", dates of their respective election Page 5, line 17,- and the period for which they have been so elected;- (64) omit "decide either to" (51) Page 5,- Page 5, line 19,- for lane 25, substitute- omit ·or not so to register rt;" (52) "(8) The CommiSSion shall give Page 5, hne 20,- reasons for its decision in the matter: (65) for "rts deciSIOn" substitute '1he same" (53) SHRI SYEO SHAHABUDOIN: I beg to move: SHRI D.B. PATIL: I beg to move: Page 4, line 26.- Page 5. line 13.- add at the end- add at the end- "but forthwith" (70) "relating to the points mentioned in sub-section (4) of this section only Page 4. line 41,- 253 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 254 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

for "of its president, secretary, condition specified in clause treasurer and others" substitute (8) is, fulfilled by that party and "and designation of its" (72) not otherwise, that is to say:-

Page 4,- (A) that such party-

for line 46, substitute- (a) has been engaged in political activity for a "(f) the location of its State, District, continuous period of Gram Panchayat units, if any" (73) five years; and

Page 5,line 6,- (b) has, at the genera election in that State after "regulations" insert- to the House of the People, or, as the "induding the manner of election or case may be, to the nomination of its off ice bearers and Logislative Assem- organs and the dates thereof in the bly, for the time light of its memorandum or rules being in existence and regulations" (74) and functioning, re- turned-either (i) at DR. AK. PATIL: I beg to move: least one member to the House of the Page 5, lines 9 to 11,- People for every twenty-five mem- omit "and to the principles of social- bers of that House or ism, secularism and democracy, any fraction of that and would uphold the sover- number elected Irorn eignty, unity and integrity of In- that State: dia" (93) or (ii) at least one Page 5, line 17,- member to the Leg- islative Assernbiy 01 omit "either" (94) that State tor eV8Pi thirty members 01 SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK: I beg to that Assembly or any move: fraction of that nvrn- ber; Page 5,- (8) that the total number of valid after line 30, insert- votes polled by all the contesting candidates set up by such '29 8. (1) Political parties shall either party at the general election in be recognised political parties the Slate to the House of the or unrecognised political par- People, or, as the case may be ties or unrecognised parties. to the Legislative Assembly, for the time being ir. existence (2) A Political party shall be and functioning (exciuding the treated as a recognised politi- valid votes of each such con- cal party in a State if and only testing candidate in a constitu- if either the conditions speci- ency as has not been elected fied in clause (A) are, or the and has not polled at least 255 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 256 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

[Sh. Shantaram Naik] mUlti-State party shall, on such commencement, be a one-twelfth of the total number National Party and shall con- of valid votes polled by all the tinue to be so until it ceases to contesting candidates in that be a National Party on the constituency) is not less than result of any general election four per cent, of the total held after such commence- number of valid votes polled ment. by all the contesting candidates at such general election (3) Notwithstanding anything in the State (including the valid contained In subsection (1). votes of those contesting can- every political party which didates who have forfeited immediately before the en- their deposits) forcement of this section is in a State a recognised political (3) For the removal of doubts it IS party, other than a multi-State hereby declared that the con- party as aforesaid, shall on dition in clause (A) or (8) of such commencement, be a sub-section (2) shall net be State party in that State on the deemed to have been fulfilled result of any general election by a politica! party if a member held after such commence- .l.he House of the People or ment.' (100) '~e Legislative Assembly of the State becomes a member SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: of that political party after his beg to move: election to that House or, as the case may be, that Assem- Page 5, hlle 11,- bly. add at the end- 29 C. (1) If a political party is treated as a recognised political party "and that the association or body in accordance with section 29 shall conduct periodical demo- B in four or more States, it shall cratic elections to elect all office be known as, and shall have bodies and office bearers and their and enjoy the status of, a term shall not exceed a period of "National Pal1y" throughout four years." (125) the whole of India; and if a political party is treated as a SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY: I recognised po!itical party in beg to move: accordance with that sedion in less than four States, It shall Page 5, line 11,- be known as, and shall have and enjoy the status of a add at the end- "State Party· in the State or

States in which it is a recogni- U as comprised in schedule to the sed political party. Constitution of India alongwith a note of assurance that the mem; (2) Notwithstanding anything bars so enrolled do individually and contained in subsection (1), collectively subscribe to the avery political party which commitments of such memoran- immediately before the com- dum or rules and regulations and mencement of this section is a with an undertaking that individu- 257 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 258 Second Amdt.} Bill & of People (Arndt.) BiD

als only having such commitments ticulars within sixty days. Those parties sh all be enrolled as member" (126) which are already recognized so far as the giving of symbol is concerned, that should be SHRI O.B. PATIL: I beg to move: enough. Forthem, in opinion, it is not necessary. Page 4,- Then, I have another amendment to after line 21, insert- sub-clause (6) which says:

"Provided that a political party shall "The Commission may call for such be registered only if its constitution other particulars as it may deem fit provides for election of office bear- from the association or body." ers and executive bodies in a democratic manner and acts ac- This is a very wide term. What other particu- cordingly: lars? The CommiSSion may want anything from the party. The party may not be in a Provided further that if a political position to do that. Such an unspecified party has no such provision in its power of calling 'such other particulars' constitution, it shall not be regis- should not be applicable to a party which is tered; registered. And then, it is not clear, whether they will be disqualified. Therefore, I think Provided also that in spite of such that this clause should be deleted. provision in the constitution of the political party if the party has not Then, in the sub-cl~ before that, acted accordingly then the political sub-clause (5), it is mentioned:. party shall not be registered." (157) ..... shall bear true faith and allegiance Page 4,- to the Constitution of India as by law established and to the principles of after line 21, insert- socialism, secularism and democracy .... "Provided that a political party which is not registered as specified In the morning, Com. Indrajit Gupta elabo- shat! not be entitled to have time on rated the general view and said that this radio and television for purpose of socialism should not be included here. If the election campaign." (158) Government would agree to that, I would immediately withdraw my amendment. But if SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: Sir, they would not agree to that and keep the I have moved three amendments to Clause principles of socialism, and democracy etc. 6. here. I cannot help. Ours is a scientific socialism, and notthe kind of socialism that you Sub-clause 2(A) says: believe in.

"if the association or body IS In In any case, if you insist on it. Sir, then existence at the commencement of I would like the world peace may also be the Representation of the People added to this because that is one of the (Amendment) Act, 1988, within things which everybody vows for in this thirty days next following such atomic age. commencement... " PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE (Ra- And then in the next sub-clause, it is men- japur): Sir. there are two amendments. I tioned that they have to submit certain par- would not speak on one. That is simple; in 259 Ccnslil.utioo (Sixty- DECEMBER 1 S. 1988 Representation 260 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.~ BiD

(Prof. Madhu Dandavate] 'Glasnost' and all that. sub-clause 2. line 29 should be dropped~ PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: J do because after 60 days and 30 days., it is all agree with you. J don't want things to be meaningless. static. ~ want more than Gorbachew_.( Interruptions) The second amendment is tbe most important Though I have baem a socialist, I PROF. N.G. RANGA: You haYe got the do concede that VIIhenever tBe parties are wrong end of the stick. Why are you labour- formed and elections are fought, It is not ing? absolutely necessary that one must accept socialism. There have been conservafute PROF. MADHU OANOAVATE: I agree parties and other parties everywhere. For with him. 1stand for ·Perestroika'. 'Glasnost' instance. 1hope. Prof. Rang a will not misun- and everything. But what I am trying to point derstand-l don't want to show any disre- out is at any stage of political fife there can be spect-butthere was a time when there was parties who can have differences... Bhartiya Jan Sangh Party and then there was Swatantra Party. They were political SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT: Prof. Oan- parties but they were not committed to so- davate said, "I stand for everything". cialism. But for that reason you cannot prevent them from registering themselves as PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Yes, the political parties or continue in the elec- everything that is good. (Interruptions) tions. SHRI H.K.L. BHAGAT: I am only quot- Sir. with Prof. Ranga's permission, with ing you. Why do you grudge my quoting? full respect to him, I may point out in 1959 tor ( Interruptions) instance for a very honest reason when he inaugurated the Swatantra Party's Confer- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: So, ence while talking about the Swatantra Party what I was pointing out to you was... he said, SHRI H.K.L BHAGAT: He is trying to "Secondly the Swatantra Party is firmly create everything for the Janata Dat and opposed to the socialism of the Con- trying to put everything, socialism and anti- gress brand which it thinks is hardly socialism, everything. distinguishable from communism. Aa:ording to it, the brand of socialism PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, which the Congress Party has been how can we stand on four legs at the same trying to implement will bring India time? closer to a Communist polity where economic and political freedom Will All that I am saying is that you have well-ntgh cease to exist. This dominant made a mention of Constitution as estab- concept of socialism is irreconcilable lished by law and provided one stand for the with freedom and independence of the unity and integrity. That is sufficient, be- people, wrth their capacity to develop cause in the Preamble socialism is also their persohalily and prosperity." there. When you come to the mention of the principles, then, as Prof. Ranga rightly said PROF. N.G. RANGA: The Congress in 1959. there may be different approaches socialism of those days is different from the to the pnnciples of socialism. Therefore, I Congress socialism of these days. (Interrup- was suggesting, only keep Constitution as tions) established by law and one would stand by unity and integrity. That is all we said when Today they are in favour of 'perestroika' we took oath standing there and joined 1he 261 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 262 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Parliament. So, that much portion which is the application within the aforesaid period. there in the Oath should be retained. ,Sir, I have further stated that, whether it I hope and trust that you o,yillsee the is a new party or a party already in existence su'istancs in the simplicity of the drafting at the time of the commencement of this Act, and, therefore, accordingly accept my the period should be90 days, during which amendment and try to make your formation it may be required to apply for registration. It more rational and more practicable. is also said that the rules and regulations for the memorandum of a particular party must SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnani): have a particular clause. At present the Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Clause 6 in its clause may not exist in those very words. In present form is totally unacceptable. One that case, the political party will be required can unaerstand the registration of political to amend its constitution to have that particu- parties if the idea is to introduce proportional lar wording. The rules and regulations of the representatior. which we all support and political party provide and lay down a par- which we all demand. Today, the Govern- ticular procedure which is required for ment may not be in favour of proportional amendment of its memorandum of rules and representation. But I am quite sure that grim regulation and its constitution. In such a realities of the situation will assert them- case, the Chief Executive of that party while selves and one day or the other all will have getting the applications can give an under- to come back to the system of, proportional taking to the Election Commission that in representation, due course of time, the necessary amendment will be carried out. If the idea of registration is to force a party to adopt a particular ideology alone, Sir, in case the Election Commission then it makes a short work of democracy and refuses to register a political party, the it is also violative of all our fundamental Commission must be duty-bound to record rights. Sir, I therefore say that Clause 6 in its the reasons for refusal in writing. Further, present form is totally unacceptable. This there should be explicit provision for appeal- clause will create further difficulties and ing to the appropriate court by any party complications about which I have moved which feels aggrieved of the decision of the amendments. Election Commission. My amendments take care of these procedural aspects. However, Sir, for example, Clause 6 says that unless this clause is amended properly, in every party will have to apply for registration the present form in which the whole clause is within a particular period, i.e. 60 days. Now coached, it cannot be acceptable to us. this is a very rigid clause. There may be situations where some extension of date MA. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Shri Ha- may be required and some delay may take roobhai Mehta place, In that case, you all have confidence in the Election Commission and the Election SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: Sir, Commission should be given the power and please give me half a minute. I have forgot- authority to extend this date in case of a ten to mention about one of my amend- particular situation. We should also be in a ments. It is very important... (/nterruptions) position to condone genuine delays. There- fore my amendment No. 31 is that the Elec- tion Commission may, on being satisfied MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have al- that there is good reason or justification, ready called him. I cannot allow you. Nothing relax or extend the aforesaid period within goes on record. I have not allowed her. which an application for registration is to be made or it may condone the failure to make (Interruption~)•

'Not recorded, 263 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15.1988 Representation 264 Second Amdt) Bill & of People (Amdt) BiR

SHRI HAROOBHAI MEHTA (Ahme- under Article 368 of the Constitution it will dabad): Sir. on the earlier occasion while make a change of the Constitution itself. I do dealing with Clause 4. I pointed out one thing not think we can prevent them from fighting through an Amendment which was gra- election under our democratic polity. Apart ciously accepted by the Government for from this,l raised apeint regarding debarring which I am grateful to the Prime Minister and a political party on the ground that it must the Law Minister. have a particular political or economic philosophy. It will be against Article lP. Article Now. so far as this Clause is concerned, 19 gives right to form associations or unions. what , am suggesting is that you merely And reasonable restriction can be put under elaborate what is already found in Sub- Sub-Clause 2 of Clause 6. which says, Noth- Section of Section (29(a) and incorporate it ing in Sub-Clause (a) of Clause 1 shall affect by Clause 6 of this Bill. This is my respectful the operation of any existing law or prevent submission. Ultimately. the registration of the State from making any law insofar as politica'l parties does not excl uda other politi- such law imposes any reasonable restric- cal parties which are not registered from the tions on the exercise of the right conferred by very existence as political parties for even the said Sub-Clause, Le. rightto form a union contesting the elections. It only enables or association. in the interests of the Sover- them to gain certain facilities from the Elec- eignty and integrity of India. the security of tion Commission like the symbols and otNtr the State, friendly relations with foreign facilities consequent upon or concomitant to States, public order. decency or morality, or the registration. My suggestion is that when in relation to contempt of court, defamation we emphasise on the acceptance of secular- or incitement to an offence.· The framers of ism as a principle. we should also insist that the Constitution took note of the right to form they shQuld state in their Constitution that a union. That elm be restricted only on these membership is open to all citizens irrespec- grounds and no other and to make a law by tive of the religion. race. caste. community, which the rights to form a union, to fight an place of birth or sex. election. are restricted on other grounds in my view will be against Clause 19 of the Sjr. a party which is confining its mem- Fundamental Rights of our Constitution. bership only to members of a particular religion. community or even the place of resi- Now. realising fully we" that Mr. Shank- dence or on the parochial outlook. all these aranand will not accept that position, I have things cannot be said to be secular parties. given Amendment suggesting that the par- I will not go to the extent of branding them as ticulars that you have asked for, all these communal parties but the insistence on particulars are already submitted to the secularism must include insistence on open Election Commission while a party applies membership. Therefore. I want to tell this for the election symbol. reservation and al- idea for proper consideration at an appropri- lotment order. Therefore. I have suggested ate time. I know several dimensions are that those political parties which have al- involved in the acceptance of this. if it is ready been recognised by the Election insisted at this hour. But the idea should be Commission on consideration of all these accepted. I therefore commend it to the materials should be deemed to be regis- Minister for his acceptance. tered. But even-I have further gone and said-assuming that a particular Clause 5 SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI (GuwahatO: has not been complied by any political party, Yesterday also I had raised this point which then that political party may be asked to was 10ft unanswefed by the han. Minister. If comply with Clause 5. There is no need once • political party says that the type of sociaf- more for the Election Commission to go iena as contemplated in the Constitution it through aU these particulars and other doet believe or it does believe in the social- things. The Election Commissiop is alr,ady ism itsel and the' democratic process and satisfied with the particulars necessary. and 265 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAY.A) Representation 266 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill the information necessary under this very Apart from that, under sub-clause (8) it clause, because this clause has almost word has been proposed that the decision of the for word been borrowed, except clause 5, Commission shall be final. It is not fair. If the from the Election Symbols Order. decision of the Commission is final, then the , political parties which have not been recog- SHRIAMALDATTA: Istronglyobjectto nized by the Commission will have to face the proposal to give to the Election Commis- hardships. Therefore, apart from that, there sion the power to ask for particulars from should be an appeal against the order of the political parties. Then it can ask for all kinds Commission. of particulars which the political party may not be in a position to supply, or it may not Then, in my amendment No. 1571 have want to supply. It is in the sweet whim of the proposed: Election Commission that this power of 1 this amplitude lies. This cannot be given "Provided that a political party shall be registered only if its constitution pro- The second set of amendments, so far vides for election of office bearers and as this clause is concerned, is to deny the executive bodies in a democratic Election Commissioner the power to decide manner and acts accordingly:" whether to register or not to register a political party; because the Election Commis- sioner cannot have that power without our The words 'act accordingly' are impor- knowing for what purpose the registration is tant I come from Maharashtra. In Maharash- going to t:>e. First of all, the power of the tra, an organization called Shiv Sena is Election Commissioner is itself very wide there. Shiv Sena is preparing itself to contest and arbitrary; and secondly, nothing is being the elections. That association has no said in this clause 6, as to the purpose for constitution. As there is no constitution, which this power is being given, this registra- there is no question of electing any office tion is to be effected. So, this is a totally bearers and executive bodies. Their su- unacceptable clause. But I have asked for preme is Shri Bal Thakare and word his word amendments only in these two clauses, is the first and the last as far as Shiv Sena is which should be accepted. concerned. (Interruptions) He does not believe in democracy. He has stated it publicity SHRI O.B. PATIL: Clause 6 provided that Shiv Sena will contest election on the for registration of political parties. We are issue of Hindutva and if Shiv Sena is not totally opposed to this clause, whereas allowed to do so he Will not allow to do the Government is bent upon enacting it the way elections to take place. it has proposed. We want to have some restrictions provided for. Sub-clause (6) of Clause 6 says: The constitution of the ruling party provided for the election of the office bearers of "The Commission may call for such the executive body. But, so far as elections other particulars as it may deem fit are concerned, since 1972, elections have from the association or body." not taken place in the Congress Party itself, even though it is provided there tor the election of the office bearers of the executive It has been given very wide powers. I body. I have further proposed that if it is not propose that the Commission shall have the acted upon, then the party will not be entitled authority to call for particulars relating only to for registration, and the Commission shal1 the points in sub-section (4). In sub-clause reject the application for registration of such (4), the details are given regarding the par- a party; and the firsts victim of my amend- ticulars of the political parties. They are more ment will be the Congress I Party which is the than sufficient. Ruling Party. 267 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15.1988 Representation 268 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) BiD

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE dent is there. Everybody is there adhoc; (Bolpur): I am strongly supporting my adhoc Chief Minister is there. Everybody is amendments nos. 63, 64 and 65. We are at the mercy of the President and nobody trying strongly to impress upon my friends on has got any elected post in the Party; and the other side the reasonableness of thiS. everybody is at the mercy of the President. who is also adhoc. Therefore, this is there The Prime Minister helS said that this JS not only in the Congress Party but in many a revolutionary Blii and these are historic other parties also, which do not practise this amendments, f]istoric Jeglsla110ns. He also Inner party democracy about which Mr. has said that because of the laws passod by Gadglt has said that the Congress Party IS an the Congress Party. Ule democracy has embodiment of Inner party democracy in this come to stay in this country: and th~ lrdun country. if thiS sycophancy IS equated to only democracy is showmg to the world at Idl~e party democracy. then you are in a democ- how the parliamentary democracy can func- racy_ 111erefore. if the basis of democracy is tion. The democracy pre-supposes oppal t.)- d r1 elecllon In tht:! party itself, then evory nities gjv~n to the people periodically to p::uty wf-JlGh IS eligible to be registered must express thetr views and chOice tnroL9h 1.::',,8 e"3c.tl0l15 inside tlie party. No respon- periodical elections; and that is also tile SIt-,t: polllK.. ian can opfJOse thiS; and I am Prime M,nister's philosophy about which Mr sure, If Mr. Shankaranand is aUowed to thmk Shankaranand reminded us earlier thal the on hiS own. he will also accept it. electIOn is the very basIC postulate of a democratic polity. The pamcutars about the office-bearers which have to be given, In them, they must Now. if the parties which take part in the also mention to the Election Commissioner elections have no faith in inner party democ- the period for which they have been elected. racy, if they do not practise democracy them· Therefore, the office of President, elected for selves, how can those parties be allowed to how many years, when elected, Secretary be registered as political parties and partici- for how many years, when elected you have pate in the election process which is the very to mention all those details. basis of the periodicity in the choice of the representatives. Therefore, I have said that The third amendment is that the EI~ to enable a party to be eligible to apply for tlon Commission whose decision is sup- registration, it shall hold elections regularly po~ed to be final must give reasons for its at least once in three years. Therefore. I deciSion. I am sure, that the Law Minister of said, prOVided that no political party shall be India does not want arbitrariness anywhere. eligible for registration unless it has held and hold free elections of its .offtce·bearers at PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: How least once In three years. If three years is too can It be final? The Supreme Court is there. short a penod, then Mrs. Geeta Mukherjee's amendment for four years is there; that can SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: The be accepted. Can the Ruling Party say that reason for this is, as you know and the hon. it will be registered although it does not MinISter knows and teUs us, that reasons are practise democracy In its own party? There anti-thesis of arbitrariness. Therefore, I am is no scope for elections in that party. From suggesting that the Commission shall give 1969, J believe. they have not held any reasons for its decision in the matter. It elections in their party. It is all adhocism accepts, or it does not accept. but it should which is going on. Adhoc Minister is there; give reasons. Of course. the Supreme adhoc President is there; adhoc Vice-Presi- Court's power is there under Article 136. If 269 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Repres&ntation 270 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill reasons are given and it appeals to people, tered and that of course that it has acted in then .they may not challenge it. Therefore, accordance with whatever rules or regula- the law should itself provide for giving rea- tions or whatever constitution it has adopted sons. Otherwise, there may be scope for for itself. arbitration. (lnte'*uptions) Therefore, these three amendments should be accepted. If , may take just a minute. , also \f1'Jry strongly feel that the decision of the SHR1 SYEO SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan- Commission with regard to registration or ganD: J agree wfth the ciiticism that the non-registration shoutd not be absolutely procedure given in this sedion is very rigid, final, and fhat.jt should be justifiable. particularly the time-limited of 30 days for new associations or bodies to be registered And finatly, we cannot really strait- or to submit their application for registration, jacket our democratic system 10 one single is indeed very brjef and that it should at }east jdeoJogjcaJ pattern. We have got political be 90 days. variety and therefore we must distinguish between upholding the sovereignty. unity Secondly, there is a point that several and integrity of Jndla and circumscribing. to parties have different nomenclatures for adopt a particular ideology. their off ICe bearers. Some parties do not have presidents or treasurers. Therefore, I DR. A.I<. PATIL (Mehsana): 1 have got feel that perhaps giving the names and three amendments to Clause 6. designations of office bearers should have been a happier form of drafting. On page 5, lines 9 to 11, I insist that we omit the words In sub-clause (f) the clause speaks of the local units. Now, we are living in a country "and to the principles of socialism, which has the dimensions of a continent and secularism and democracy, and national parties at least operate at various would uphold the sovereignty, levels. They operate not only at the national unity and integrity of India- level, they also operate at the State level, at the district level, at the block level and many because, secularism and all other of them operate at the Panchayat level. things one has to take an oath and say, and Perhaps this term 'local unit' needs to be it is true that it is necessary to have it. further clarified and defined.

Then on page 5, line 1 7, I insist that the Finally, I would like to mention this prob- word "either· be omitted because no such lem of inner party democracy. While the power should be given to the election author- Election Commission is supposed to receive ity. all sorts of information, there is no specific requirementthat the party applying for regis- About the registration. on page line 19, tration should inform the Election Commis- the words "or not so to register it- may be sion about the manner of appointment of its omitted, because no such power should be office bearers or of its various bodies. They given to the Election Commission orto deter- may be elected, they may be nominated; mine, which is a negative power. Whatever it might be, that should be one of the specific items to be conveyed to the MR. DEPUlY-SPEAKER: Shri Shan- Election Commission before a party is regis- taram Naik. 271 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 272 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) Bill

SHRI SHANTARAM NA~K (Panaji): Mr. We agreed only upto 70·Clock. Deputy -Speaker Sir, this is with respect to my Amendment No. 100. The proposed MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER: At that Clause 29(A) speaks of registration of Politi- time. let us see. cal parties virtually taken flOm para 6 of Election Symbols Reservation Order, where THE MINISTER OF LAW AND JUS- the law presently stands. Th&re are two TICE AND MINISTER OF WATER RE- other paragraphs in the same order, which SOURCES (SHRI B. SHANKARANAND): speak of kinds of parties, recognised, unr~ First of all. let me take the amendment ob- cognised, State and National, which elabo- jecting to Sub--clause 6, which says: "The rate in detail what is the State party, what is Commission may call for such other pa.1icu- the National party, what is the recognised lars as It may deem frt from the associations party and what is the non-recognised party. or bodies." These two paras have not been incorporated in this Bill. Therefore, half the bw with Sir, it IS seen that this Sub-Clause has respect to registration remains in tillS 8111 and been put at the bottom of the other Sub- the other half of the law remains in the clauses and the parties which want to be Symbols Order. To cure this anomaly, I registered with the Election Commission are soughtto introduce my amendment, which is required to give various information under a lengthy amendment. various Sub-clauses. Then, in the end we have said that the Commission may call for SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY such other particulars as it may deem fit from (Puri): Mr. Deputy-Speaker Sir, It is unfor- the associations or bodies. I can assure the tunate that my Amendments are not receiv- House that the Election Commission is not ing serious attention of the Law Ministry. My going to ask for particulars which the party amendment is very simple. They have pro- might conSider to be untoward. The particu- vided in the Clause for upholding the sover- lars which are legitimate for the purpose of eignty, unity and integrity of India. I want to registration-this is a residuary general add "as comprised in schedule to the Clause. As is usual, this general Clause is Constitution of India". Sir, otherwise this will put and I do not think Members should be be very nebulous and at the time of interpre- chary about this clause, because there is tation it will not indicate whether that would nothing of~ending in it. First let me talk about be violated or not. the word "Socialism".

Another point IS about the enrollment of 18.00 hrs. a new Member by the party. For enrollment of new Members, there would be a Memo- PROF. MADHUDANDAVATE: You will randum or a regulation. Whenever new cometotrouble in the court of law. Thatisthe Members are enrolled, they should swear problem. allegiance to the Constitution. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: There That is why, I have incorporated this in was some exchange of words or I should the Amendment. say, argument or thought between you and the oldest Member of this House, Prof. AN HON. MEMBER: For how long wall Ranga, with regard to the word 'socialism'. we sit? SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: Have you MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I hope the defined socialism in the Constitution? With- Members wilt agree that till the Bill is passed, out defining that, how can you say this? we will sit. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: When thiS SHRI C. MAOHAV REDOI (Adilabad): Constitution was adopted, the words 'social- 273 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 274 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill ist' and I secular' were not there. When the SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: You are Constitution was adopted, the only words in factually incorrect. Swatantra Party fought the Preamble were "sovereign, democratic Mrs. Gandhi ..... (lnterruptions) republic". tn 196~ the Congress was split and the people who believed in socialism. SHRI B. SHANKARAN~~D: I have stood with Mrs. Gandhi and those who op- beenilere at least since 1967 when Swatan- posed socialism, left the CongrElss. tra Party was also sItting on that side of the House. I know that. Mr. Minoo Masan;, who PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Mr. was the leader of the Swatantra Party, was Ashok Mehta le1t the Congress though he sitting on that side and I was sitting on this believed in socialism. side. I know that. I do not deny that. But in those days from '67 to '69 when the Con- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I do not gress came to split, the real socialist people know why he left. It is rrost unfortunate. remained with Mrs. Gandhi and those who dId not believe in socialism left us. {Interrup- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: In 1984 tion} only those who were socialists left the Con- gress. The word 'Socialism' came to be incorporated ... (lnterruptions) SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I am talk- i,19 of 1969. On the othor hand. those who PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Please /0 had left Congress In 1984 should have excuse me. The point is that you and I joined after 1969. This IS history. accept socialism. But the question is in a pluralistic socIety, hdve non-~ocialists a In Fandabad Congress the entire AleC right to organise a democratic patty or not. deliberateti on this thing. All these who were in the Congress and were opposed to social- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: am ism, left the Congress and the entire country coming to that. which stood with Mrs. Gandhi, believed in socialism. This is the history. One of the SHRIINDRAJITGUPTA: Ifthewholeof .. oldest Members about whom you have the Congress had become socialist, then commented, perhaps, it was before the split. wny was it_pecessary for some Congress- When he 10und that this was the real Con- men to for'" a socialist 10rum? gress which believed in socialism, perhaps, he came to us. You should have also come SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Let me not to us because you believe in socialism. digress hom the matter. The one thing that he has asked is regarding forming the asso- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Be- ciaticn. Contesting election is not a Consti- cause I am a socialist, that is why, I have not turional rig: It.. .. (/nterruptions) come to you. SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: What you SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Anyhow. are going to do i!' completely a gimmick. It that is tpe history. This is how the Congress will not stand to logic. then was as described by Prof. Ranga in who'3e socialism he did not believe in. Those SHRI B. SHANKARANANO: Do you Congress people ieft us. That is why, he understand what you are tcolking? I am so came to lJS. sorry. Contesting election and forming political partiE ~ for the purpose of election is not PROF MADHU DANOAVATE: His criti- a Constitutional right. This is not a funda- cism was against Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru mental right.. ..• (/n!erruptions). You have the and not against all those who left the Con- right to form associations under article 19, if gress. it is not otherwise debarred. BlJt to form an 275 Constitution (5;x'1- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 276 S!!!COnd Arndt.) SUI & of People (Arndt.) Bill

[Sh. B. Shankaranand] contesting election. association, to name the political party for SHRI B. SHANKARANANO: We will the purpose of contesting election, is not a say, after 1976, when the Constitution was fundamental right. Contesting election is a amended, we had the Forty-second statutory right. not a Constitutional right. Amendment Act. The word 'Socialism' was That is how I am making difference between put there and you are duty-bound to say article 19 and the Representation of the that you are committed to the ideologies of People Act... (Interruptions). Article 19. this country, you are duty-bound to the which is concerned with the Chapter or spirit of the Constitution. You cannot deny Fundamental Rights, does not give any rig!' that. to any citizen to fight election ... (lnterruptions). The question is we SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Socialism is are not amending hare article 19, otherwise an ideology. Suppose I do not subscribe to I would have taken note of the objection of that, how can you compel me? Do you mean Mr. Dinesh Goswami. He is right. But we to say that I cannot contest the election? concede that you are free to form your own associations. We are not debarring forming SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: You can of associations under article 19 which is a contest, not as a political party. Fundamental Right. But any assocjation getting symbol for the purpose of contesting SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Why? election comes under the statutory right. It is not a fundamental right. Symbol we get SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: We are under the Symbols Order, where also you only providing this for a political party. We are required to register your political say we believe in socialism. We believe in party ... ( Interruptions). the Preamble of the Constitution. We be~ lieve in the spirit of the Constitution. (Inter- SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: What is ruptions) You want to say that you don't the purpose of registiation? believe in socialism? (Interruptions)

SHRI B. SHANKARANANO: I will come SHRI SAIFUDDIN CHOWDHARY: to that. If you have a little pati&nce, you listen You don"t believe in socialism. Like your to me. In 1960, we had the Symbols Order, party you don't believe in socialism. How where also the political party is defined for can you be a socialist? the purpose of registering the oolitical party for getting a symbol. It is an Order, it is not SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: You don't a statute passed by the Parliament, or the understand it. There is no bar on any political Constitution which has been amended. It is party from coming and sayjn~ that "we don't not so. We are deliberately bringing this believe in socialism. We are l"Iot for poor clause here for registration 0.1 the party. We people" Let them say so. want to see which are the political parties- communal, or with ulterior motives or trying SHRIINDRAJIT GUPTA: That means to disrupt the democratic process of this if you want to get a symbol, you say that you country. And if any pofitical party is just believe in socialism, whereas you don't. ashamed to say that they are not socialist, lat them say so. Let the people of this Gountry SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: You say understand which is a socialist party, which that you believe in the spirit of the is the party for the poor, which is not a party Constitution which is enshrined in the Pre- for them. let them say ..•. (/nte"uptians) amble of the Constitution. But you don't want to say that. SHRl BASUDEB ACHARIA: The point is whether that wiD debar that party from PROF. MAOHU OANOAVATE: Sup- 277 Constitution {Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAf<'A~ Represehtation 278 Second Amdt.) 8111& of People (Amdt.) Bil' pose we have in our country the pra·Avadl him. he must be as,,_ed to vocdte his s~at Congress saying that we belie'll€! OIl:Y in ( Interruptions) Cooperative Commonwealtn or we belIeve in the welfare State, such a Congres.s would SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I sll1cerely not have the right tp contest the election~ admit my inability to understand the (;orro!ic:.- lIy of the person. I cannot undeis~alld the SHRI 8. SHANKARANAND: Such a complex per:;cniJhty d lhe Member. (lmc?r- Congress in not there today. (Interru}Jtions). ruptlOns) Sir, for polit.cal considerallons. 8:! There is a proverb in Kannada langa<1!:je tll-i! sort., of WOI Js a, ~ being (Interruptions) M~. "if my aunt has moustaches, I would c:;.:: ; ..;:f Bar,.lllf.. ai:a, ~ou know ~here tha shoe uncle". So, that Congre...rs is not lac:." pll"lches. Today the real Congress believe~ in sO~la'· ism. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: Look at ') ':Jur shoes an\.] IOO~ at YOur j)1i1ch. SHRI BASUDEB ACHAR1A: U everybody believes in socialism. why do you want SHRI B. SHANt

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: We said MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have not that we do not believe in the clause, in the called him. I can't allow. Nothing will go on form in which it has been brought in here. record. I am not allowing hIm. That is the difficulty. The Constitution as I know is with reference to the secular democ- [ Translation] racy. We are dedicated to this even before you got wi.:;dom. That apart, the pcint is that ( Interruptions)", what I said was that unless and until you accept certain amendments which we have SHRI BALKAVIBAIRAGI: Mr. Deputy moved, and remove the complexities of this Speaker, Sir, when hon. Shri Shankaranand particu:ar clause, the law in present form was speaking, hon. Shri Banatwalla inter- cannot be accepted. fered then there were some heated ex- changes. At this moment, I would like to say SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: What is only this much:- the complexity? "Na kuch ye samzhe na ye samzhe, SHRI G.M. BANAlWALLA: What kind Harne to batao hum kya samzhen". of a Law Minister you are? (Interruptions) ( Interruptions).

Such persons should not be allowed to [English] contest the elections. He has not under- stooO a Member in this House who is vef}' MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mr. Minis- explicit and if the other does not understand ter. you speak.

\-Not recorded. 279 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 280 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Now, Mr. Amending Bill. So, Sir, I am not accepting Banatwalla .... any of the amendments.

( Interruptions) SHRI SOMNATH CHATIERJEE: What about my amendment about the inner SHRI EBRAHIM SULAIMAN SAlT party democracy? (Manjeri): He tries to divert the attention of the people. Actu ally, we ag reed as far as the SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: Inner integrity of the country and the Constitution party democracy-are you accepting his also are concerned. But other matters put in amendment? clause 6 are very much confusing. (Interrup- tions). SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Perhaps the hon. Member does not know ... SHRI B. SHANKARANANO: Any way, the entire House has understood yourviews. PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: From Please sit down.(lnterruptions) 1971 onwards that has also changed.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEA.KER: What is SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: No. We this? I cannot run the House like thiS. hold AICC every year, now twice every year, and our views are expressed fully. (Interrup- ( Interruptions) tions)

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Order. MINISTRY OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI Order. H.R. BHARADWAJ): Why are you trying to govern the House? Unnecessarily they (Interruptions). should not create thiS type of situation? (Interruptions). Let him have his say when SHRI AZIZ QURESHI: He means CPt his turn comes. and CPI (M)

PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: If the SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: We matter goes to the court, for God's sake, regularly hold our elections. (Interruptions) don't appeal like that in the House. (Interrup- tions). SHRI A. CHARLES: What about Ker- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Now, I ala? In Kerala Mr. Raghavan expressed his should say, Sir, I have explained enough to opinion and he was dismissed from the the Members who are totally opposed to this CPI(M). (Interruptions). The man who ex- clause. Perhaps some Members have very pressed his opinion was dismissed. (inter- serious objections as far as sub-clause (v) ruptions). is concerned. I can understand their griev- ances, I can understand their precarious MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What is condition and the critical situation. I can this? Why are Members shouting like this? understand that, but the nation ;s interested Are you sitting here properly or not? What is in having a healthier political system and this? You sit down. All of you are shouting. further interest in the poor. When the Minister is on his legs and replying. you are shouting. Regarding Mr. Naik's amendment, it is a very long amendment in which he wanted SHRI A. CHARLES: Do you agree with ether things to be put into here. I think it is not that? nec.essary because the Symbols Order can MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let him be amended any time after adopting this say. 281 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24. 1910 (SAKA) Representation 282 Sscond Arndt.} Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

( Interruptions) party democracy that you are following? You do not teach us about democracy. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, I can only say that our political party is the most PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Sir, he democratic party. That is why it has sus- is recently elected as Deputy General Sec- tained itself that is why people have believed retary. (Interruptions.) in our party. That is the reason why we are in greater majority on this side. This much SHRt B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, I am you should make out. (Interruptions) not accepting any of the amendments.

SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA: If you SHRI OINESH GOSWAMI: Mr. Shank- believe in inner party democracy, you accept aranand, you have not talked about my his amendment. amendment.

SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: You do MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He is not not have democracy. (Interruptions). accepting. That is all.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please, SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Myamend- Order. ment is, those parties about whom the Elec- tion Commission is already satisfied with all SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Let not the particulars for being registered under the Marxists teach democracy to us. Do you Election Symbol (Reservation and allot- believe in their democracy? let Mr. Dan- ment) Order, should become automatically davate say, does he beheve in their democ- registered. Why do you ask all the parttes to racy don't teach democracy. We know, wh at submit all the documents? is democracy. You ask your colleagues sitting around. Do they beheve in your SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Sir, this democracy? point has been considered. I should say to the hon. Member, what is wrong for the SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: If existing political parties to furnish the details. you believe in it, then you accept the amend- What problem have you to send an applica- ment. tion for registration?

SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: let Mr. MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Has Shri Madhav Reddi say, does he believe in your Haroobhai Mehta leave of the House to democracy? withdraw his amendment No. 32?

( Interruptions) SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

Don't you see people this side? We are The Amendment No. 32 was by leave, elected through democratic process. (Inter- withdrawn. ruptions) MR. DEPUTY -SPEAKER: Has Shri SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA: Quoting Shantaram Naik leave of the House to with- Pandit Kamlapati Tripathi, he has said. there draw his amendment No, 100? is bogus memhership in your party. Amendment was No. 100 by leave. SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: Mr. In- withdrawn. drajit. ! can very well appreciate your con- cem for my party. I thank you for that. But MR. DEPUTY--&PEAKER: Has Shri what is your democracy? What are you Brajamohan Mohnaty leave of the House to talking at. )(.!t democracy? What is the inner withdraw his amendment No. 126 , ,. 283 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 284 Second Amdt.) 8ill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Amendment No. 126 was, by leave, Baitha, Shri D.l. withdrawn.

MR. DEPUTY-5PEAKER: I shall now Balaraman, Shir L. put the rest of the amendments together. The qu~stion is: Basavarajeswari, Shrimati

Nos. 15, 16, 17,23,24.25,291 30,31,33, Basavaraju, Shri G.S. 34,35,42,49,5~51,52,5~55 5~63. 64,65,70, 72, 73, 74,93,94, 125, 157, Bashesr, Shri T. and 158. Bhagat, Shri H.K.L Amendments were put and negatived. Bhardwaj. Shn Parasram THE DEPUTY-SPEAKEA: The question is: Bhoi. Dr. Krupasindhu

"That clause 6 stand part of the Bill." Bhosale, Shri Prataprao 8.

Let the Lobbies be cleared- Bhumij, Shn Haren

Lobbies are cleared. I Will put clause 6 Charles, Shn A. for adoption Chaturvedi. Shnmati Vldyavati The question IS: Chaudhary, Shn Manphool Singh "That Clause 6 stand part of the Bill". Choudhary. Shrimatl Usha THe Lok Sabha divided: Choudhary, Shri Nandlal AYES Dabhi, Shri Ajitsinh 18.29 hrs. Das, Shri Anadi Charan Division No.14

Abbasi, Shri K.J Das, Shri Bipin Pal

Das, Shri Sudarsan Ansari, Shri Z.R. Dennis, Shri N. Antony. Shri P .A. Digvijay Sinh, Shri Arunachalam. Shir M. Dube. Shri Bhishma Deo

Athithan. Shri R. Dhanuskodi Engti, Shn Biren Singh

Awasthi. Shri Jagdish Gadhvi. Shri B.K

Bairagi. Shri Balkavi Gamit, Shri C.D. 285 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 286 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Ghosal. Shri Oebi Mallick. Shri lakshman

Gomango, Shri Giridhar Mehta, Shri Haroobhai " Gowda, Shri H.N. Nanje Maira Kumar, Shrimati

Gupta Shri Janak Raj Mishra, Dr. Pr~bhat Kumar

Gupta. Shrimati Prabhawati Mishra, Shri Ram Nagina

Halder, Prof. M.R. Mishra, Shri Umakant

Jagannath Prasad, Shri Mohanty, Shri Brajamohan

Jain, Shri Dal Chander Motilal Singh, Shri

Jain, Shri Virdhi Chander Mushran, Shri Ajay

Jangde, Shri Khelan Ram Naik, Shri Shantaram

Jatav, Shri Kammodilal Naikar, Shri D. K.

Jena. Shri Chintamani Negi, Shri Chandra Mohan Singh

Jhikram, Shri M.L. Oraon, Shrimati Sumati

Kamla Prasad Singh, Shri Pande. Shri Raj Mangal

Kaul, Shrimati Sheila Pandey, Shri Madan

Ken, Shr; Lala Ram Pandey, Shri Manoj

Khan, Shri Aslam Sher Panika, Shri Ram Pyare

Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Udhampur) Panja, Shri A.K.

Kinder Lal, Shri Parashar, Prof. Narain Chand

Kshirsagar, Shrimati Kesharbai Pardhi, Shri Keshaorao

Kuchan, Shri Gangadhar S. Paswan, Shri Ram Shagat

Kurian, Prof. F'.J. Patel, Shri Ahmed M.

lachchhi Ram, Shri Patel. Shri C.O.

law, Shri Asutosh Pathak, Shri Chandra Kishore

Madhuree Sjngh, Shrimati Pati~ Shri H.B.

Malik, Shri Dharampal Singh Patil, Shri Vijay N. 287 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 288 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

Patnaik, Shrimati Jayanti Santosh Kumar singh, Shri

Poojary. Shri Janardhana Sen, Shri Bholanath

Potdukhe, Shn Shantaram Shahi, Shri Laliteshwar

Pushpa Devi, Kumar! Shankaranand, Shri B.

Qureshi, Shri Aziz Shankar lal, Shri

Rai, Shri, I. Rama Shanmugam, Shri P.

Rai, Shri Raj Kumar Sharma, Shri Chiranjilal

Rai, Shri Ramdeo Sharma, Shri Nand Kishore

Rajhans, Dr. G.S. Sharma, Shri Nawal Kishore

Ram, Shri Ram Ratan Shastri, Shri Hari Knshna

Ram. Shri Ramswaroop Siddiq, Shri Hafiz Mohd.

Ram Awadh Prasad. Shri Sidnal. Shri S.B.

Ram Ohan Shri, Singaravadlvel, Shn S.

Ram Singh, Shri Singh, Shri Lal ViJay Pratap

Ramachandran. Shri, Mullappally Singh Deo, Shri K.P.

Rana Vir Singh, Shri Sinha, Shrimati Kishori

Ranganath. Shri K.H. Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan

Rao, Shri J. Vengala Sparrow. Shri R.S.

Rao. Shri P.V. Narasimha Sreenivasa Prasad, Shri V.

Rao, Shri V. Krishna Sultanpuri, 5hn K.D.

Rathawa, Shri Amarsinh Suman, Shri R.P.

Rathod, Shri Uttam Sundararaj, Shri N.

Rawat Shri KamJa Prasad Swami Prasad Singh, Shri

Sahi. Shrimati Krishna Tariq Anwar, Shri

Sakargaym, Shri Kalicharan Thara Devi. Kumari O.K.

Sankata Prasild. Dr. Ttgga, Shri Simon 289 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Representation 290 Second Amdt.) Bill & of PeopI9 (A(ndI.) Bill

Tombi Singh, Shri N. Hansda, Shri Matllal

Tripathi, Dr. Chandra Shekhar Iyer, Shri V.S. Krishna

Vanakar, Shri Punam Chand Mith- Janarthanan, Shri Kadambur abhai Jhansi lakshmi, Shrimati N.P. Venkatesan, Shri P.R.S. Malik, Shri Purna chandra Vyas, Shri Girdhari Lal Masudal Hossain, Shri Syed Wasnik, Shri Mukul Misra, Shri SatyagopaJ Yadav, Shri Ram Singh Mukherjee, Shrimati Geeta Yazdani, Dr. Golam Patel, Dr. A.K. Yogesh, Shri Yogeshwar Prasad Pathak, Shri Ananda Zainul Basher, Shri Patil, Shri D.B. NOES Penchalliah. Shri P. Acharia, Shri Basudeb Raju, Shn Vijaya Kumar Banatwalla, Shri G.M. Ramaiah. Shri B.B. Basu, Shri Anil Ramashray Prasad Singh, Shri Bhoopathy, Shri G. Rao Shri A.J. V. B. Maheswara "Birbal, Shri Rao Dr. G Vijaya Rama Biswas, Shri Ajoy Rao, Shri Srihari Chatterjee, Shri Somnath Rao, Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara Chowdhary, Shri Saifuddin Reddi, Shri C. Madhav Dandavate, Prof. Madhu Reddy, Shri B.N Das, Shri R.P. Reddy, Shri K. Ramachandra Datta, Shri Amal Riyan, Shri Baju Ban Ghosh Goswami, Shrimati Bibha Roy, Dr. Sudhir Goswami, Shri Dinesh

Gupta, Shri Indrajit Saha, Shri Ajit Kumar

"Wrongly voted for AYES. 291 Cons.titution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 292 Second Amdt) Bill & of People (Amdt) BiR

Saha, Shri Gadadhar after line 37 • insert

Sail, Shri Ebrahim SuJaiman "Provided further that in the case of parliamentary or Assembly con- Sambu Shri C. stituency, the reference to, an elector of the constituency as Shahabuddin. Shri Syed proposer, shall be construed as a reference to 0.2 per cent of the Somu, Shri N. V.N. electors of the constituency or one hundred such electors Thomas, Shri Thampan whichever is less as proposers" (87). Tulsiram, Shri V. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are Yadav, Shri Vijoy Kumar moving your amendment, Mr. V. Kishore Chandra S. Deo? He is absent. Zainal AbedJn. Shri Are you moving your amendment, Mr. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER; Subject to V. Sobhanadreeswara Rao? correction*, the result of the division is: SHRI V. SOBHANADREESWARA AYES: 146 RAO: I beg to move:

NOES: 48 PageS-

The motion was adopted after hne 37, insert-

Clause 6 was added to the Bill. Provided further that in the case of Parliamentary or Assembly con- Clause-7 (Amendment of Section 33) stituency, the reference to • an elector of the Constituency as MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you proposer" shall be construed as moving your amendment, Mr. Dinesh a reference to "Twenty five per Goswami? cent of the electors of anyone polling station of the constitu- SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: No. ency or one hundred such etec- tors whichever is less as propos- MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you ers." (153). moving your amendment, Mr. Madhav Reddi? MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I shall now SHRt C. MAOHAV REDDI: Yes .• put amendment Nos. 87 and 153 moved to Clause 7 to the vote of the House. I beg to move: Amendments No. 87 and 153 were pageS- put and negatived.

*The followmg Members also recorded their votes: AYES: Shrimati Manorama Singh, Shri Birbal, Shri Somnath Rath, Shri Channaiah Odeyar. Shri Ganga Ram, Shri Baputal Matviya and Shri Mankuram Sodi. NOES: Shri Hannan Itfoffah. 293 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 294 Second Amdt.) Bi// & of People (Amelt.) BRI

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: There are SHRI VUOY KUMAR YADAV (Nal- no amendments to Clause 8 and 9. anda): Sir, I beg to move:

Therefore, I put together Clauses 7 to Page 6, lines 20 to 22, 9 to the vote of the House. I, Omit" (i) or at a place fixed for the The question is: poll (hereafter in this section referred to as a place) "That Clauses 7 to 9 stand part of the BiII.- (ii) line 23.-

The motion was adopted. omitor lace (113)

Clauses 7 to 9 were added to the Bil/ Page 6, line 30, -

Clause 10 (Insertion of new section after" under sub-section (1) insert- 58 A) "or on the receipt of a report from the MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mrs. Geeta candidate" (134) Mukherjee ..... not here.

Shri Thampan Thomas. SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: Sir, the fallacy of this Bill has very much been re- SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: Sir, I beg vealed during the discussion. BOQth captur- to move: ing is made an offence. But, m,"y other things also happen during the time of elec- Page 6,- tions. Therefore my a amendment No. 96 says how they canvass the election process. after line 26, insert-- This is very clear from the past experience. Therefore, many of the important things U(c} during the election time the which have been excluded are not taken police officers or any persons note of. So, I am suggesting these two deputed for keeping peace in things. The fact is that the Police Officers the locality and to ensure and other people who are deputed for elec· peaceful holding of elections tion duties, they involve themselves in the creates wilfully a situation by election matters and influence the election. which voters could not come There is another thing. At the time of casting and participate in the election; vote, they use the officers to cast the vote In at favour of the persons whom people want, who will control. Therefore, to curb thiS, I have moved my amendment. (d) during the process of election either the presiding officer or [ Trans/ation] the polling officers themselves SHRI VIJOY KUMAR YADAV (Nal- cast the vote on the plea of anda): Mr. Deputy·Speaker, Sir, myamend- inability of voters or otherwise ment to Clause 10 is that the EJection and cast the vote against the Commission should not decide the cases of wHI and choice of the voters. booth-capturing or irregularities committed (96). at the time of election merely on the basis of the report from the Returning Officer which is MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Shri Indrajit not adequate. I shall conclude after giving an Gupta .. not here example. 295 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 296 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdi.) Bill

ISh. Vijoy Kumar Yadav) tion is:

In the 1985 elections. in the Islampur "That Clause 10 stand part of the BiIt." area of my Parliamentary constituency the candidate of Communist Party of India was The motion was adopted. declared elected and given a certificate of election. But after two days the Returning Clause 10 was added tu the Bill . Officer issued a certificate of ejection to the Congress candidate and declared our candi- CLAUSE 11 (Insertion of new Section date to _have lost the elections. 61A)

So this provision does not hold good in SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI (Guwahati): the cases where the Returning Officer him- Sir, I beg to move: self is involved in such irregularities or booth capturing or other malpractices. Who wIll file Page 7, line 7, - a complaint against him in such cases? for "having regard to the circum- That IS why I have moved the amend- stances of each case" ment which says that in such cases the substitute- Election Commission should take action not only on the basis of the report received from "In consultation with the the Returning Officer but also on the baSIS of Leaders of the recognised the report received from the candidate In politICal parties and the ·Union case the candidate files a complaint in this of India and State Govern- regard. ments.- (44)

That is my amendment. SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bolpur): Sir, I beg to move: [English] Page 7, lines 5 to 7,- SHRI B. SHAN KARAN AND: Sir, I think, the han. Member has not been able to appre- - for "may be adopted in such con· ciate the provision of the amendment. This stltuency or constituencies as the amendment says-' will read for the benefit election Commission may, having of the House .... .,he returning officer shall regard to the circumstances of iorthwith report the matter to the Election each case, specify." Commission. to The point is he doesn't take the decision. He mak'lts only a report to the substitute" shall be adopted in all Election- Commission and the Election the constituencies during the same Commission takes the decision. Therefore, election." (66) this objection js not weJl-founded. I don 'f acx:ept this. . MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Amar Roypradhan .... not here MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now. I shalf put the amendments moved by Shri Tham- SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA .,.., Thomas and Shri Vijoy Kumar Yadav to (8ankura): Sir. I beg to move: Ole vote ot the House. page 7. lines 5 to 7,- Amsndment Nos S6. 113 and 134 were put and IkIgaIived for -such constituency or .constitu· encies as the Election Commission MR. DEPUlY~SPEAKER: The ques- may. having regard to the circum- 297 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24, 1910 (SAKA) Represemation 298 Second Arndt.) BUI & of People (Arndt.) Bill

stances of each case, specify.' SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA {Bankura): My amendment is very simple. If electronic substitute "all constituencies·. voting machine is introduced. it should be introduced in all constituencies. Here, it has SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: Sir, my been stated that some sensitive constituen- amendment is verY simple. It is regarding cies are to be identified by the Election electronic voting machine. The Clause says, Commission. There is no role of State Gov- ''the Election Commission may, havmg re- ernment which looks after the law and order gard to the circumstances of each case, problem of the State. My amendment that if specify ... " Therefore, there is no gUideline electrOnic machine is introduced that should under which the Election Commission will be a foolproof machine that should be intro- decide as to in which booth the electronic duced in all constituencies and not in some voting machine will be employed. The State- constituencies which are sensitive and that ment of Objects and Reasons says that it is too Identified by the Election Commission. In sensitive. There is no such consequence. the Financial Memorandum it has been Therefore, my amendment is that the Elec- stated that one machine will cost Rs. 5,000. tion Commission will decide the polling And to introduce it In all the constituencies, it booths in consultation with the Leaders of Will cost about Rs. 75 crores. If electronic the recognised political parties and the voting machine is introduced, that should be Union of India and the State Governments. introduced in all constituencies in this country. SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (Bolpur): As Mr. Goswami just now said. our SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I don't apprehenSion is because of the Financial think 'the Opposition or any other Member Memorandum. The Financial Memorandum has any objection for using electronic ma- says, if you kindly look at it: chine for voting. The only objection seems to be that it should be used in all the constituen- "It is proposed that the machines may cies. That is the only thing that they have be introduced in the first phase, in said. constituencies indentified as senSitive by the Election Commission.· SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: What is the basis of sensitiveness? I do not know on what basis this Finan- cial Memorandum is prepared. Old you have SHRJ B. SHANKARANAND: The ques- a discussion with the Election Commission? tion is, perhaps, you know the constitutional As rightly said by Mr. Goswami, there are no status of the Election Commission. gUidelines. Nobody knows on under what circumstances. on what basis, the Ejection SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: But It Commission may decide something? There is mentioned in the Financial Memorandum. should have been some guideline some • How do you know about it? Indication. And in the Financial Memoran- dum, as I said earlier, senSitive for whom? SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: When we Sensitive from what point of view? H the have not been able to provide electronic Government for the purpose of sensitive- machines for all the constituencies in the ness. refers to the Election CommiSSion to count~ and we have been able to provide decide the utifisation of voting machine. then only a few number which has been specified, this becomes too much indefinite. There- to those constituencies the erectioR tore, if they adopt voting machine. it shall be Commission will decide. We are not going to adopted in all the constituencies during the decide. same eJection. Therefore. there is nothing to be picked and chosen without any guide- SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: How lines. do you know about it? Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15.1988 Representation 300 Sscond Amdt.) Bill & of Peop/s (Amdt) BiN

SHRIB. SHANKARANAND: The Elec- tion is: tion Commission- is incharge of all these things. They know where is what and we "'That Clause 11 stand part of the Bill- have left it to the Election Commission. The motion was adopted . SHRI SOMNATH CHAITERJEE: Did you consult the Election Commission before Clause 11 was added to the Bin. making Financial Memorandum? Clause 12 (Amendment of Section 77) SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: The Bill doesn't say that these powers have been left SHRI OINESH GOSWAMI: I beg to to the Goyernment. It has been left entirely to move: the Election Commission which is an independent constitutional authority. "Page 7, -

SHRt BASUDEB ACHARIA: Why only for clause 12, substitute sensitive constituencies? '12. In Section 77 of the principal Act, SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: The point in sub section (1). we would like to be clarified is that in the Financial Memorandum you have said that (a) for Explanation 1, the following the total expenditure likely for introducing Explanation shall be SUbstituted. the electronic voting machine in all the sen- namely:- sitive 'COnstituencies will be Rs. 75 crores. Which means such co"stituencies will be 'Explanation:- Notwithstanding 150. We would like to know what are the any ludgement, order or decision of criteria on the basis of which you have con- the Court any expenditure incurred aidered a constituency to be sensitive CXln- or authorised in connection with stltuency and on what basis you have come the furtherance of election pros- to conclusion of 150. This is not what the pects of a candidate by a political Section Commission has decided. It IS what party, recognised under the Elec- the Government has decided. tion Symbol Order, 1968 or otherwise shall be deemed to be expen- SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I still diture incurred in connection with llllintain that the sensitive aspect of what the the election or authorised by the If8ction Commission, you or me think, is not candidate or by the election agent .part of the amending bill ... (lnterruptions) ... for the purpose of this sub-section. We are not bringing an amendment on that ai,JQount Perhaps it may be that whichever Provided that any expenditure by Q',If1&tituencies the Election CommiSSion the State for funding election of cnay feel necessary, there the electronic candidate by the Union of India like ~ ~es can be used. This is the intention free postage for appeals to con- . oJ~. Government. stituents, transport and fuel facilities, with limits prescribed under MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shaU now rules, shall not be deemed to be j)U& au the amendments moved to Clause 11 expenditure in connection with jQ the vote of the House. election incurred or authorised by the candidate or by the election Amendment Nos 44, 66 and 154 were put agent for the purpose of this sec- IIItd IIfI9Stiv8d. tion.-;

t.tij. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- (b) Explanation 2 shall be omitted; 301 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24.1910 (SAKA) Representation 302 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt) BiD

(c) Explanation 3 shall be omitted.' My second proviso is, if the State de- (160) cides to provide certain funds either by cash or otherwise, that will not be included within SHRI C. MADHAV REDDI: I beg to the ceiling of eJection expense. move: I feel this is a very reasonable sugges- "Page 7,- tion which the Government should accept.

for clause 12, substitute SHRI C. MADHAV REOOI: Myamend- ment a~so relates to the election expense. In , 12. In section 77 of the Pnncipal 1974. the Representation of People's Act Act, in sUb-section (1) for Expla- 1951 was amended and the expenditure nation 1, the following Explana- incurred by the political parties. friends of the tion shall be substituted, candidates, or any other associations sup- namely:- . porting the candidate, all that expenditure has been excluded. I would like that proviso 'Explanation 1. - Notwith- to Section n of. the Representation of standing anything contained People's Act which was inserted in 1974 to In any other section of this Act. be deleted. the total of the said election expenditure incurred by the SHRI B. SHANKARANANO: I think the political party of the candidate amendments are so clear that booth captur- or any other association or ing by candidate or this agent or any other supporters of the candidate, person has been made a corrupt practice shall not exceed rupees two and accordingly this is added. lakhs and fifty thousand In case of Parliament and AN HaN. MEMBER: This is about rupees fifty thousand in case election expense. of Assembly." (162) SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: About the SHRI OINESH GOSWAMI: Myamend- election expenditure there were discus- ment is in two parts. The first part is that sions. Perhaps Mr. Madhav Reddi was there under the present law there is a ceiling of when we discussed this matter when I had a expenditure but the ceiling applies only to consultation with the Opposition leaders. the candidates and not to a political party This matter was raised by the Hon. Mem- with the result that election expenses are bers. ThiS IS a matter we don't think that made but not shown in the ceiling and the should form a part of the legislation. ceiling has become totally unreahstlc. Therefore, I have given an amendment that MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- the election expense by a political party for tion is: the furtherance of election prospect of a candidate by a political party recognised 'Page 7.- under the election symbol order or otherWise should be included. for clause 12, substitute -

I may point out that the successive Chief '12. In section 77 of the principal Election Commissioners and even a number Act. in sub-section (1). - of lmportant committee recommendations have suggested that the party's expense (a) for Explanation 1, the following also should come within the ceiling of the Explanation shall be substituted, election expense. namely:- 303 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15, 1988 Representation 304 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

"Explan atio n-Notwithstand i ng two lakhs and fifty thousand in any judgement, order or deci- case of Parliament and rupees sion of the Court any expendi- fifty thousand in case of Assem- ture incurred or authorised in bly." (162) connection with Hle furtherance of election prospects of a candi- The Lok Sabha devlded date by a political party, recognised under the Election Symbol Division No 15 Order, 1968 or otherwise shall be deemed to be expenditure 18.50 hrs. incurred in connection with the election or authorised by the AYES candidate or by the election agent forthe purpose of this sub- Acharia, Shr~ Basudeb section. 8asu, Shri Anil Provided that any expenditure by the State for funding election Bhoopathy, Shri G. of candidate by the Union of India like free postage for ap- 8iswas, Shrl Ajoy peals to constituents, transport and fuel facilities. with limits Dandavate. Prof. Madhu prescribed under rules. shall not be deemed to expenditure in Das, Shri R.P. connection with election incurred or authorised by the can- Datta, Shri Arnat didate or by the election agent for the purpose of this section"; Ghosh Goswami, Shrimati Bibha

(b) Explanation 2 shall be omitted; Goswamj, Shri Dinesh

Cc) Explanation 3 shall be omitted." Gupta. Shri l"drajit (160) Hansda, Shri Matilal "Page 7,- Jhansi Lakshmi, Shrimati N. P. for ctause 12, substitute- Malik, Shri Purna Chandra " 2. In section 77 of the Principal Act. in sub-section (1) for expla- Masuda! Hossain, Shri Syed nation 1, the following Explana- tion shall be substituted. Misra~ Shri Satyagopal namely:- Mukheriee, Shrimati Geeta "Explanation 1. - Notwithstand- ing anything contained in any Pathak. Shli Ananda other section of this Act. the total of the said election expendrture Patit. Shri O. B. incurred by the political party of the candidate or any other asso- Penchalliah. Shri P. ciation or supporters of the candidate. shall not excpod rl _. Raju, Shri Vil6Ya Kumar 305 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 306 Second Amdt.) Bill & of Peop/s (Arndt.) Bill

Aamaiah, Shri B.B. BaJaraman, Shr; L

Ramashray Prasad Singh, Shri Banerjee, Kumari Mamata

Aao, Shri A. J. Y. B. Maheswara Basavarajeswari, Shnmati

Aao, Dr. G. Vijaya Rama Basheer, Shri T.

Rao, Shri Srihari Bhagat, Shri H. K. L.

Rao, Shri V. Sobhanadreeswara Bhardw~J, Shri Parasram

Reddi, Shri C. Madhav Bhosale, Shri Prataprao B.

Reddy, Shri B. N. Bhumy, Shri Harea

Reddy, Shri K Ramachandra Birbal, Shri

Riyan, Shri BaJu Ban Charles, Shri A.

Roy, Dr. Sudhlr Chaturvedi, Shrimati Vidyavati

Saha, Shn AJlt Kumar Chaudhary, Shri Manphool Singh

Saha, Shri Gadadhar Choudhary, Shn Nandlal

Somu, Shn N V. N Dabhi, Shn Ajitsinh

Thomas, Shri Thampan Dalblr Singh, Shri

Tulslram, Shri V. Das, Shri Anadi Charan

Yadav, Shri VIJoy Kumar Das. Shri Sudarsan

Zainal Abedin. Shri Dennis, Shri N.

NOES Digal, Shn Radhakanta

Abbasi, Shri K.J. Digvljaya Singh, Shri

Anthony, Shri P. A. Dube, Shri Bhlshma Deo

Arunachalam, Shri M. Engti, Shn Blren Singh

Athithan, Shri R. Dhanuskodl Gadhvi, Shri B. K.

Awasthi, Shri Jagdish Gamit, Shri C. D.

Bairagi. Shri Balkavi Ganga Ram. Shri

Baitha, Shn D. l. Ghosal, Shri Deb; 307 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 Representation 308 Second Amdt.) Bill & of Peo;:>/e (Amdt.) BIN

Gomango, Shri Giridhar Manorama Singh, Shrimati

Gupta, Shri Janak Raj Meira Kumari, Shrimati

Gupta, Shrimati Prabhawati Mishra, Dr. Prabhat Kumar

Jagan Nath Prasad, Shri Mishra, Shri Ram Nagina

Jain, Shri Virdhi Chander Mishra, Shri Uma Kant

Jangde, Shri Khelan Ram Motilal Singh, Shri

Jatav, Shri Kammodilal Mushran, Shri Ajay

Jena, Shri Chintamani Naik, Shri Shantaram

Jhikram, Shri M L. Naikar, Shri D. K.

Kamla Prasad Singh, Shri Nagi, Shri Chandra Mohan Singh

Kaul, Shrimati Sheila Odeyar, Shri Channaiah

Ken, Shri Lala Ram Oraon, Shrimati Sumatl

Khan, Shri Aslam Sher Pande, Shri Raj Mangal

Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Jhunjhunu) Pandey, Shri Madan

Khan, Shri Mohd. Ayub (Udhampur) Pandey, Shri Manoj

Kinder Lal, Shri Panigrahi, Shri Sriballav

Kshirsagar. Shrimati Kesharbai Panika. Shri Ram Pyare

Kuchan, Shri Gangadhar S. Parashar, Prof. Narain Chand

Kurien, Prof. P. J. Pardhi, Shri Keshaorao

Lachchhi Ram, Shri Pathak, Shri Chandra Kishore

Law, Shri Asutosh Patil, Shri H. B.

Madhuree Singh, Shrimati Patil. Shri Vijay N.

Mahendra Singh. Shri Patnaik Shrimati Jayanti

Malik, Shri Dharampal Singh Patnaik, Shri Jagannath

Mallick, Shri Lakshman Poojary, Shri Janardhana

Malviya, Shri 8apulal Potdukhe, Shri Shantaram 309 Constitution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) Representation 310 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

Pushpa Devi, Kumari Shankaranand, Shri B.

Qureshi, Shri Aziz Shankarlal, Shri

Rai, Shri I. Rama Shanmugam, Shri P.

Rai, Shri Raj Kumar Sharma, Shri Nand Kishore

Rai, Shri Ramdeo Shastri, Shri Hari Krishna

Rajhans, Dr. G. S. Siddiq, Shri Hafiz Mohd.

Ram, Shri Ram Ratan Sidnal, Shri S. B.

Ram, Shri Ramswaroop Singaravadlvel. Shri S.

Ram Awadh Prasad, Shri Singh Deo. Shri K. P.

Ram Singh, Shri Sinha, Shrimati Kishori

Rana Vir Singh, Shri Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan

Ranganath, Shri K. H. Sparrow, Shri R.S.

Rao, Shri J. Vengala Sreenivasa Prasad, Shri V.

Rao. Shri P.V. Narasimha Sultanpuri, Shri K. D.

R&) Shn V. Krishna Suman, Shri R. P.

Ratll, Shn Som:1ath Sundararaj, Shri

Rathawa, Shri Amarsinh Thara Devi, Kuman [' K.

Rathod, Shri Uttam Thorat, Shri Bhausah-ab

Rawat, Shri Harish Tigga, Shri Slmcn

Rawat, Shri Kamla Prasad Tombi Singh, St,- t 1

Sahi. Shrimati Krishna Tripathl, Dr. Chandr3 Shpkhar

Sakargaym, Shri Kalicharan Vanakar, Shn Punam Chand Mith- abhai Sankata Prasad, Dr.

Sen, Shri Bholanath Venkatesan, Sl;; P. R. S.

Sethi, Shri Ananta Prasad Vyas, Shri Girdhari Lal

Shahi, Shri Laliteshwar Yadav, Shri Ram Singh 311 Constitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 312 Second Arndt.) Bill & of Peopl9 (Amdt.) Bill

Yazdani, Dr. Golam language it shall be deemed to be an appeal by the candidate on Yogesh, Shri Yogeshwar Prasad such ground." (26)

MR. DEPUTY SPEAhER: Subject to SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: I beg to correctlon*, the result of the Division is: move:

Ayes: 38 Page 7,-

Noes: 138 after line 17, insert -

The motion was negatived "ea) after clause (7), the following clause shall be inserted, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The namely:- question is: "(7A) The securing the assis- "That Clause 12 stand part of the tance of a Government servant BilL" belonging to any class to make any arrangement or provide and The motion was adopted facility or doing any other act or thing for election of the candi- Clause 12 was added to the Bill date." (38)

Clause 13 (Amendment of Section SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: I beg to 123) move:

PROF. MAUHU DANDAVATE: Ibegto "Page 7, - move: atter line 21, insert -

"Page 7, - .. (9) The use of official cars, planes, helicopters etc. by per- after line 17, insert - sons holding official positions for the purpose of furthering the , (a) after the proviso to clause election prospect of anv political (3), the following further party or candida, ~ . -; \.t-~} proviso shall be inserted, namely:- PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Really ~peaking, the hone Minister has accepted my "Provided further that if a candi- earlier amendment regarding the misuse of date IS set up or seeks or re- religious institutions. This is only a corollary ceives the support of an organ- of that. Only one priviso is being added about isation or a political party whose the corrupt practices, namely: membership is open to citizens belonging only to a certain relig- "Provided further that if a candi- ion, race, caste, community or date is set up or seeks or re-

-The following Members also recorded their votes for NOES: Sarva,."nree Mullapally Ramachandran. Chiranja lal Sharma. Ram Shagat Paswan. T. Sala Gowda. Braja Mohan Mohanty. Prof. M.R. HQlder. Shri Bipin Pal Das. Shri Ram Dhan and Shri Mankuram Sodi. 313 C:mstitution (Sixty- AGAAHAYANA 24,1910 (SAKA) R&prllSentation 314 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill

ceives the support of an org3n- SHRIB.SHANKARANAND: The isatlon or a political party whose amendment suggested are beyond the membership i~ open 10 citizens scope of the amending Bill. Therefore, I belonging only to a certain relig- cannot accept them. ion, race, ciilste, community or language it shall be deemed to MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shall put all be an appeal by t"e candidate on the amendments to clause 13 to the vote of such ground" the House.

This should be liable for corrupt Amendment Nos 26. 38 and 45 were put practice. and negatived.

SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: Sir, I also MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- want to include a POint about corrupt prac- tion is: tice. Nowadays, the civil service is very much influenced by political parties. The "That clau&e 13 stand pafl.of the Bill." political parties are involving c;vil servants in an election. They may mampulate according The motion was aO(JjJl/itJ to their own political sympathies and ali that. To avoid that, I am proposing to insert the Clause 13 was added to the Bill. following clause after clause (7): Clause 14 (Amendment of Section 127) .. (7A) The secunng the assIs- tance of a Government servant SHRI. V: SOBHANADREES\1tJARA belonging to any class to make RAO: I beg to move: Ciny ar rangement or provide any facility or doing any other act or Page 7, line 30, - thing for election of the candidate." for "one thousand rupees· substitute- This is the common experience. The cases are there in the courts. The Supreme ''two thousand rupees· (39) Court has also decided in that favour. There- fore, I press this amendment. Sir, this amendment is to further strengthen the provision to dis- SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: The House courage persons who disturb the will be happy to know that this is my last election meetings. The Govern· amendment. ment has proposed Rs. 1,000. I have proposed Rs. 2, 000. It will be PROF. MADHU DANDAVATE: Is any- more stringent and effective. I hope thing likely to happen to you afterwards? the Minister will accept it.

SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI: No. Sir, I SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: We want the following to be included in the have already enhanced the punishment. corrupt practice: Therefore, J cannot-. accept it. "The use of official cars, planes, MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shall now helicopters etc. by persons hold- put the amendment moved by Shrj V. ing official positions for the pur- Sobhanadreeswara Rao to the vote of the pose of furthering the eteetion House. prospect of any political party or candidate." Amendment No 39 was put and negatived. 315 Coi1sfituIjon (Sixty- DECEMBER 15. 1988 Representation 316 Second Amdt.) Bill & of People (Arndt.) Bill

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The ques- these implemented at a different date as the tion is: Government wi" think fit. It seems to me that in view of the discussions held only a little "That clause 14 stand part of the while ago about voting machines, this ena- Bill." bling provision is very dangerous. In Bihar, our candidate was declared elected in the The motion was adopted Islampur Assembly constituency. The certificate was handed over to him by the Elec- Clausa 14 was added to the Bill toral Officer. After two days it was said that he was not elected, someoody else was MR PEPUTY SPEAKER: The questIon elected, because there was some trouble in is counting. If this kind of selective enabling power is given tb the Government with re- 'That Clause 15 and 16 stand part gard to various provisions, I am afraid the of the Bill," questions will be decided in the way, it was decided in Islampur. The motion was adopted Therefore. I am opposed to this Clause If the Bill is to be adopted, it has to be put into Clauses 15 and 16 were added to the practice all at once and not at the oiscretion Bill. of the Government in power.

Clause 1 [Short Title and Commence- [ Trans/ation1 ment] SHRI VlJOY KUMAR YADAV (Nal- SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: ~nd~: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my amend- beg to move:] ment is of the similar nature. The Bill which has been introduced is not comprehensive Page 1.- but a piecemeal. A provision has been made to implement this Bill in a piece-meal. I for lines 7 to 11, substitute- suggest that when a Bill is passed in its entirely. all the provisions of the Bill should .. (2) It shall come into brought into force on one date. This is what force at once: (6) my amendment says. As my amendment is quite a simple one, I hope the hon. Minister SHRI VLJOY KUMAR YADAV: I beg to will accept it. move: [English] Page 1, lines B to 11,-' SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: The hon. omit "and different dates may be Members may kindly consider that this is an appointed for different provi- enabling provision. We have in the amending sions of this Ad. and any refer- Bill so many clauses. With respect to certain ence in any provision to the clauses certain preUminary actions are to be commencement of this Act shall taken, and in that case the particular clauses be construed as a reference to cannot come into force immediately. But this the coming into force of that Section does not bar that we cannot bring all provision." (127) the provisions of the Bill into force on one date. Some time is required for preliminary SHAfMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE: action in certain cases. For example, for This is an enabling clause which makes electronic machines, can we say that it wm Government able to have the provisions of come into force from tomorrow? These are 317 Constitution (Sixty- AGAAHAYANA 24.1910 (SAKA) Representation 31 a S«:ond Amdt.) 8iIi & of People (Amdt.) BIll

the purposes for which tnis enabl,ng clause House has passed tile Constitutional is there. Therefore. I do not accept this Amendment Bill for lowering the voting age amendment. from 21 to 18 years. But I am doubtful. whether it would be implemented before the MA. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I shall now next elections. Even though the Constitution put th& amendments to clause 1 to the vote Amendment Bill has been passed, it has to of the HOlJse. be rectined by fifty per cent of the States and then the President's assent has also to be Amend'ments 6 and 127 were put and received. Only then, It will become an Act. negatived. On these grounds, the GovernrTlent may like to delay its implementation. MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: The questIon is: Further, Section 19 of the Representa- tIon of the People Ac.t has also to be "That Clause 1 stand part of the aMended to give effect to the lowering of the Bill". voting age. That has also not baen done. That gives an indication of the intentions of {he motion was adopted the Government.

Clause 1 was added to the &il. As -~ar as the Issue of identity cards is concerned., we have already done it in MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: The question Andhra Pradesh in respect of Corporation IS: electior.s, MUnicIpal elections as also elections to the cooperative societies. It has "That the Enacting Formula and been a great success in preventIng bogus TItle stand part of the Bill.· voting. But here, the Government has not chosen to do it immediately onthe ground of The motion was adopted expendIture.

The Enacting Formula and Title were These two things require to be attended added to the BIll. to immedIately.

SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: I beg to With these words, I opposed this Bill. move; "SHRI B. N. REDDY (Miryalguda): Mr. "That the Bill. as amended. be Deputy Speaker. Sir. fairness is very impor- passed." tant in conducting elections. The present Bill to amend the Peoples Representation Act MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: MotIon has almost ignored th,s prerequisIte. These moved: amendments are meaningless If the elections are not free and fair. Just reducing the "That the BIll, as amended, be voting age from 21 years to 18 years ""ill not passed." serve any purpose if the elections are not free and fair. In that case the intentions of all Some hon. Members want to such amendments will be nullified. Hence speak. I would request them to be brief. once again I stress the importance of free and impartial conducting of elections. Shri Ramachandra Reddy. Another important point that I want to SHRI K. RAMACHANDRA REDDY stress is that of the power of the banot. (Hindupur); Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir. the Justice wiH be done to elections and voters Government had come forward and this only when they are duly taken note of. Jus- 319 Cf)nstitution (Sixty- DECEMBER 15,1988 Representation 320 S~nd Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amdt.) Bill lSh. B.N. Reddy] proposed by Opposition Members te make etections free from evil influences. I consider tir.8 should be done to the vote cast during the Bill neither historica: nor revolutionary the electiQns. What we see today is that the but I do conSider it as yet another political party which bags only 40% of the votes is gummick of the ruling party which would ruling the country while the 60% of the votes certainly go down in the history as such. that are Celst is being ignor~d. Justice will only be done to the vote and voter only when 19.00 hrs. the importance of vote is taken cognizance of. If a party which bags or'lly 40% of the SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS {Mav- votes and comes to power it is nothing but elikara): I want to point out one important injustice to the remaining 60% of the voters. thmg. This is about 10 million people Indian Hence I advocate the importance of propor- citizens who are living abroad. They are not tional representation. Democrclcy is not jus- given th,; voting right. They are working tified -if there IS no proportional representa- abroad. The Government have recelved tion system. It is most 'Jnfortunate that the several representations in this respect. The Han. Minister has turned down the appeal people who are working abroad and who are made by all sections of Members for propor- not in a position to vote here should be given tional representation. I ask the ruling party, a voting right. My humble submission is that which is trying to c'aim al\ the credit in reduc- the Government should pay some attention ing voting age from 21 years to 18 years, why to see that these people who work abroad the prOposal for proportional representation about 10 million people earning foreign has not been accepted. They owe an answer exchange. to this question. I hope the han. Minister will pay some Sir, another important factcr which influ- attention in this regard. ences one elections is the money and the muscle power. While participating in the Another thing which is very important is debate, the Hon. Members from all sections the principle regarding withdrawal of a can- of the House, re~atedly drew the attention didate who is already elected It is one of the of money and muscle power in the election~. democratic principles followed by several What is more alarming is that these twin evil countries. If a person is found to be unfit by influences are being more and more institu- the people who have elected, they have a tionalised. Everyone in this august House is right to recall him. That is a people's right. I well aware of what has happened in Tripura. would like the Government to think over this It is a clear case of institutionalised muscle issue also. power. It shows that institutionalised and legalised muscle power is playing a role in Then about the compulsion to vote. the elections. This muscle power power has played its role in Tripura and is playing its MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr Thomas, role in Tamil Nadu also. The ruling party has this is not correct. You should have given it successfully institutionalised the money and in writing. You should speak only for or muscle power. In such a situation how can against the Bill. the ruling party do justice to elections? It is most unfortunate that the Government has not accepted amendments for controlling and eliminating money and muscle powers SHRI THAMPAN THOMAS: Nowthere from the election scene. There is no.justifica- ' is no compulsion in our country to exercise lion in their claim that the present amend- the vote. less and tess proportion of people ment BiU is historical and revolutionary. This are going to vote nowadays. There should is a hollow claim, for. they have not accepted be some provision to compel persons to even the most reasonable amendments vote. 321 Consthution (Sixty- AGRAHAYANA 24. 1910 (SAKA) ReprBSentation 322 Second Arndt.) Bill & of People (Amch.) Bill

Then about socialism. You have not have to refer to it now. defined it. It is a cap suitable for anybody who wears it. (Interruptions) I am a socialist. I With these words, I beg to move: know it. But you have no socialism. You are wearing it; that is all. "That the Bill. as amended, be passed." SHRI B. SHANKARANAND: It is the practice of the House that during the Third MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: The question Reading. no new points are made, and is; another general delete cannot take place on those points. So. I do not think I need to take "That the Bill, as amended, be the time of the House in this regard. passed."

The second point is about is about the The motion was adopted. symbol. Perhaps the hon. Member knows it. It is there in the 1950 Act. Next about identity MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: The House cards. There is a provision already there now stands adjourned titl11 hrs. tomorrow. under section 228 for issuing identity cards. The only thing is that we have to take action. 19.07 hrs. The Election Commission will take care of it.

About money power and muscle power, The Lok Sabha then adjourned tin Eleven Mr. D.N. Reddy has spoken. This has been of the Clock on Friday, December 16, debated at length earlier. I do not think we 1988 Agrahayana 25, 1910 (Saka).

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