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Home , Anand Sharma, Dinesh Goswami, Jayanthi Natarajan, Ram Vilas Paswan, Satya Prakash Malaviya, Vishwanath Pratap Singh

201 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 202 Address SHRI : Madam, I THE MINISTER OF STATE (INDE- also beg to lay on the Table a copy each (in PENDENT CHARGE) OF THE MINISTRY English and Hindi, ) of the following papers; OF WATER RESOURCES (SHRI MANOBHAI KOTADIA); Madam, I beg to I. (i) Thirty-first Annual Report and lay on the Table, under sub-section (1) Accounts of the Indian Law Institute, section 619A of tie Companies Act, 1956, a , for the year 1987-88, to- copy each (in English and Hindi) of the gether with the Audit Report on the followng papers; — Accounts, (i) Twentieth Annual Report and Accounts (ii) Statement by Government accepting of the Water and Power. Consultancy the above Report. Services (). Limited, New Delhi, for the year. 1988—89, together with the (iii) Statement giving reasons for the delay Auditor's Report on the Accounts and in laying the paper mentioned at (i) above. the comments of the Comptroller and [Placed in Library. See No. LT— 244/89 Auditor General of India thereon, for (i) to (iii)]. (ii) Review by Government on the II. A copy (in English and Hindi) of working of the Company. the Ministry of Law and Justice (Legisla [Placed in Library. See No. LT— tive Department) Notification S. O. No. 61/89]. 958(E), dated the 17th November, 1989, publishing the Conduct of Election; (Third Amendment) Rules, 1989, under section 169 of the Representation of the REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON People Act, 1951. SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION [Placed in Library. See No. LT— 232/891. CHOWDHARY RAM SEWAK (Uttar III. A copy each (in English and Pradesh); Madam, I beg to present the Hindi) of (he following Notification of Seventyninth Report (in English and Hindi) the and Mines (Depart of the Committee on Subordinate ment of Mines), under sub-section (1) Legislation. of section 28 of the Mines and Minerals (Regulation and Development) Act, 1957: —

(i) G. S. R. No. 908(E), dated rhe"l9th MOTION OF THANKS ON THE October, 1989, publising the Mineral PRESIDENT'S ADDRESS—contd. Concession (Amendment) Rules, 1989. SHRI (): Madam Deputy Chairman, I would (ii) G. S. R. No. 786(E), dated the 23rd like the Government to make a statement on August, 1989, declaring certain minerals to the policy of this new Government on Tibet. I be minor minerals in supersession of the say this because the "Times of India" today Notification of the G. says that Mr. assured a S. R. No. 436, dated the 1st June, 1958. Tibetan rally and urged them to step up their [Placed in dated the 1st June, 1958. [Placed in campaign to make Tibet independent. I would Library. See No. LT— 233/89 for (i) and like to know whether the new Government (ii)] wants Tibet to be made independent because Report and Accounts (1988-89) of the no previous Government has supported it. Water and Power consultancy. Services (India) Limited, New Delhi and related THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You have paperis. given your notice. Let the Govern- 203 Motion of thanks [] on the President's 204 Address [The Deputy Chairman] SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARA-IAN: Madam, I want to raise a very important ment take note of it and reply to it. Whatever issue, I want to request the Government, they say, we will put it before you. through you, Madam, to order an investigation into something very serious. SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY; {Interruptions). Madam, the You must direct them to make a statement, Chief Minister, yesterday, threatened the PTI THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; The Chair office saying that... (Interruptions')... does not direct anybody, (Interruptions). We telephone... (Interruptions). have got a lot of constraint of time. Mrs. , what is your problem ? SHRI V. GOPALSAMY (Tamil Nadu): It Please be brief. (Interruptions). is utter-falsehood. (Interruptions),

SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY (Pondi- (Tamil Nadu); I will take not even one cherry): Madam, he) used the word he will minute. (Interruptions). 'sack them'.... (Interruptions).... He has threatened the press telling upon free press. SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY; Are they threatening the press? This is the Thi; is a matter of great importance. attitude of the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; I told you, An investigation should be ordered. There when the Government takes note of it, when is crisis in it informs us, we will let you know. Tamil Nadu. Madam, this must be inves- SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY; That tgated. (Interruptions). is not the... SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; You have no THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; That is my right to speak about press freedom. ruling. (Interruptions). THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; I do not SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY; It understand who is speaking really because I is not an assurance. But do you admit it is a am hearing at least half a dozen voices. I do serious matter ? not think I can understand anything that is going on. (Interruptions). Just a minute. THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; It is a very There are two issues. If it is Tamil Nadu or serious matter. If you think so, if the , I hear a number of voices. At least Government think so, they will come back. let one person speak so that the Chairman (Interruptions). can take note of it. SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN; SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; Madam, have Madam, I want to raise a very important they been permitted to make a special issue. (Interruptions). mention? (Interruptions). It is( utter falsehood. SHRI VITHALRAO MADHAVRAO JADHAV (Maharashtra) • Madam, it is THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; Mrs. directly concerned with the policy on Jayanthi Natarajan, you give notice to the external affairs. Are they going to change it? Chairman. (Interruption), Mr. Gopalsamy, let them give notice to the Chairman. Please sit THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; Mr. Jadhav, down. Take your seat. Mrs. Jayanthi he does not need your help. Please let us Natarajan, you give notice to the Chairman. have the listed business. We have got a very If he permits, I will allow you to speak. important business. And there is constraint of (Interruptions). time too. Please sit down. SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG (Gujarat): Madam, I want to raise a very serious matter. Please allow me. (Interruptions).

205 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 J on the President's 206 Address IHE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: How many people can speak at a time? (Interruptidis). please listen to the; Chair also. (Interruption). Please, Mr. Gopalsamy, take your seat. Mr. Desai please sit down, I have told the Member that if she gives notice to the Chairman and if he allows a discuision, then why the Chair should have an objection. Now let us go ahead with the Motion of Thanks. (Interruptions). He might have received a threatening letter... (Interruptions)... SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG: Ma dam, one minute. I am raising a very se THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: All right. I rious matter, (Interruptions). Madam, it is will ask the Secretariat to find out about the a very serious matter...... well being of Mr. Ram Awadesh Singh... (Interruptions)...

SHRI KAPIL VERMA (Uttar Pradesh): Madam, just one minute only.. ( Interrup- tions).

|... (iqgaTH)...

SHRI JAGESH DESAI (Maharashtra) Madam, Mr. has made a very serious charge... (Interruptions)... and the Home Minister must come out with a statement and with all the facts before this House. We should know the persons who are anti-reservationists... (Interruptions)... I think it is the Lok Dal and the BJP... (Interruptions)... He has made it very clear. Therefore, I would like the Home Minister to make a statement on this... (Interruptions)... (Madam, one stranger is here. You better enquire as to how one stranger can come SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU (Tamil inside the Rajya Sabha Chamber.. (Inter- Nadu); Only one minute, Madam... ruptions)... Please enquire about it... (Interruptions)... (Interruptions)... THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will again request the honourable Members.., THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I do not (Interruptions).. Please let me give my know which cat has come out of whose bag... ruling... (Interruptions)... I will request the (Interruptions)... honourable Members again to give ir writing about whatever they want to speak in the SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Probab-ly House and then we caft have the debate. But elected by the ... (Interruptions)... now I have to go according to the listed business... (Interrup' tions)... THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will have to find out... (Interruptions)... SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: Nowadays the Black Cat Commandos are there and it may be one... (Interrup-

207 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 208 Address SHRI KAPIL VERMA: Madam, many that mere majority is nothing. The Congress journalists... (Interruptions)... were arrested Party in, the other House had 400 Members in Delhi when they were protest-ing... but 400 Members failed to save their (Interruptions)... 1 want the Government to Government. (Interruptions). make a statement... (Interruptions)... we have been request-ing tor a statement and you also kindly asK the Government to make a state- Yesterday one Member mentioned about ment... (Interruptions)... the north-east and south. But she forgot to THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Order, mention the mainland: U. P., , Orissa, please... (Interruptions)... Now, -Mrs. Bijoya and some other States where it was Chakravarty to speak on the Motion of wiped out. Thanks... ( Interruptions)... SHRIMATI BIJOYA CHAKRAVARTY The Address of the President is a com- (): Madam, I rise to support.. prehensive policy document. The President (Interruptions) ■. '. very deftly pinpoints the core and crux of the problems facing the country over the years. It is true that the, Indian electorate have shown political maturity. They desired a change and they got it. They got a new Government.

It is true that the Government is committed to fulfil the mandate given by the people;. I SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: Madam, how quote from the Address: can he say ail these things?... (Interrup- tions)... 'My Government pledges itself to fulfil the SHRI PUTTAPAGA RADHAKRISH- mandate given to it by the people. The NA (Andhra Pradesh;: Madam, how can at Government will work to restore the dignity say ail these things... ( Interruptions) ... Is it of the nation and of the individual. The going on record... (Interruptions)... Government proposes to adopt an THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No. I have alternative model of governance and not permitted him. It is not going on record... development based on socialist ideals of (Interruptions)... Only what Mrs. Bijoya economic equality and social justice, Chakravarty speaks is going on record... federalism and decentralisation, institutional (interruptions)... accountability and human rights... SHRIMATI BIJOYA CHAKRAVARTY: Madam I rise to support the Motion of Madam, Punjab is th© toughest problem Thanks on the President's Address moved by the country is facing today. It is a problem Shri .. (Interruptions).. ■ involving emotions and sentiments. Feelings Madam, the people are really very happy that when wounded may sometimes create crisis the Janata Dal Government has come at the of confidence. The emotions and sentiments Centre... (Interruptions)... of the Sikh community were 'badly hurt. I THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Order, hope that our new Government under the please... (Interruptions)... leadership of the Prime Minister, Shri , will be able to SHRIMATI BIJOYA CHAKRAVARTY: solve all these) prob. terns. It is for the first Some of the Members in the House stated time that an all-party meet took the resolve. that they have got a majority. I have no We all feel the sincere approach of th© objection. But I want to say here Government towards solving the Punjab problem. The recent visit of the Prime *Not reciveded Minister speaks volume about this. 209 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 210 Address I come from the north-eastern region and we the party alone but to the entire people of the have got our own problems. The country country. We can never allow some people to earns a major portion of foreign exchange have small gains by dividing the population through Assam through Assam tea. But in of the State. return what are we getting? In exchange we are getting nothing. Moreover, there are Regarding the minority community, I can floods and there is erosion. Till now, no steps say here and 1 can claim here that the have been taken to control the mighty river minority community should also have a sense Brahmaputra. The Brahmaputra Board had of security. They are a part and parcel of this been constituted in the year 1981 and it had country and they should have a sense of placed before the Government the Master belonging. The new Government will surely Plan of Brahmaputra. But the previous ensure it. Government did nothing to give its financial approval. So I hope that our new Government Regarding our foreign policy I want to will see to it that more funds and more money mention a few points. We can never assert is provided to Assam. that till now we had been getting an unqualified praise from all quarters for our Moreover, there are other problems of foreign policy. During the previous Gov- Assam. We have got the border problem with ernments regime, the non-alignment policy our neighbouring States. We have problem of became a suspect for reason best known to all railway lines also. The broad gauge line stops of you. Our country, under the present at Guwahati. It never goes beyond Guwahati. leadership, will surely maintain an Therefore our trains in Assam will move like equidistance from big powers. (Time Bell insects in the 21st century. I hope that the rings). lam finishing within two minutes. I Gov-ernment will surely take care of this must point out hero that only a strong and thing. resourceful country with strong leadership can pursue a meaningful foreign policy. Sound Agitation for Bodoland is causing grave economy, strong defence and solid national concern to the people of Assam. Further character are the pre-conditions of a division of Assam is not advisable politically, successful foreign policy. I am sure under the nor is it viable economically. Demo- leadership of our Prime Minister these graphically and geographically it is untenable. conditions will be fulfilled properly. Our Doubtless, the BODO people have got their approach to out neighbours like Nepal and Sri own genuine demands. I have got no doubt Lanka has not been a pragmatic one. In about it. But I want to say here that the vested respect of Nepal, the previous Government interests in New Delhi have been instigating behaved more like a big brother than like a these people against the Assam Government best friend. We must appreciate the and some sections of the people. We sentiments of small countries which are produced in this House documentary evidence closely dependent on us for their vital to prove that the previous Government itself necessities. I conclude, Madam. I sincerely was instrumen. tal in creating a grave law and hope that the Government will surely take order situation in Assam by instigating a few stock of the situation and stake right steps. sections of the people thers. T do not like to Thank you. discuss it more.

Madam, now I want to mention about the) THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Before communal disturbances. Communal you start, I must mention that there is a long list of Congress Members and there is very disturbances pose a grave threat to the short time at my disposal. Kindly be brief and integrity and security of the nation. There are take not more than 12 minutes. manifestations of communalism and fundamentalism which have created had SHRI (Himachal blood in our body politics. This is a challenge Pradesh): Madam Deputy Chairman, the not to the Government alone, not to House is discussing a Motion of Thanks on the Presideint's Address. Though we

211 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 212 Address at least been [Shri Anand Sharma] acknowledged. When the new Government refers to the problem of Punjab, it forgets to are grateful to the President for his Address mention the efforts to build a national delivered on behalf of a minority Government consensus and reconciliation... with a. majority support, the minonty (Interruptions'). Government which has been in office 'for two weeks at the time when this Address was written. The Address is full of platitudes, full THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please of palliatives, full of promises and tall claims continue. I for one, Madam, am not surprised by the contents of this Address and the claims of the SHRI ANAND SHARMA; Madam, they Government because the Government is could have also referred to the earlier efforts headed by an individual who is well-known to in building up a national consensus and in indulge in exercises of self-praise, of patting promoting national reconciliation as was himself on the back. So, even before his reflected in the Assam accord, the Mizoram Government has set rolling, he has started not accord,, the GNLF accord, and the TNV only making tall claims but also giving an accord. Nobody can deny that the conflict was impression that it is truly a great Government, minimised aad the people of these Slates were a great leadership which has been installed. brought into the mainstream and the Madam, another impression which the democratic process. But one cannot expect President's Address has sought to be created is any sincere admission of facts from a Gov- that the new Government has inherited ernment which has come into power only nothing, that there was no legacy of the because of a sustained campaign of vili- previous Government, and if there was ever fication, sustained through insinuations and any legacy, it was all dark, it was all bad. innundoss over a period of two and a half There could not be a greater travesty cf truth. years. And now they made a contention that Though one would admit that no Government there has been a verdict of change, that there has been a complete rejection of the Congress is perfect, no Government is in a position to Party. This claim is most absurd. Yes. Change fulfil all its stated objectives, it is unfortunate, has taken place. The election arithmetic has and it is unfair for the present Government to been very clear to us. But the question is say that it has inherited nothing but darkness, whether people hava voted for change and in nothing but empty coffers that you have what respect. When we discuss this, we have inherited a situation which is not only to take the nation as a whole, from Kashmir to demoralising for the nation but also an uphill Kanya-kumari. How have the people voted? task. Ma_ dam, I need not go into the details What has been the pattern of voting? The of what Shri Chavan has said yesterday about Congress Party has suffered setbacks in the the state of economy and the performance of North. But it is the Congress Party alone, She previous Government. But it appears, despite the election results, which has Madam, that they have have yet not realised emerged as the only national party... that they are now in the Government and they are no more conducting an election campaign. SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY An election campaign which was full of (Andhra Pradesh): Elections aie over. deception. full of falsehoods full of false promises. The previous Government had SHRI ANAND SHARMA; You don't have made commendable achievements in various to tell me. I am pointing out here what is fields under the most try-ins: circumstances. If meant by this 'verdict for change and I have to cite a few examples ihe crisis mandate'. It is only the Congress Party which management of the previous Government, the has emerged as the national party. It is the management of the drought of 1987, the state Congress which has emerged as the largest of India's economy the esteem in which Tndia party. And yet, you have the audacity to claim is held all over the world, the state of defence that there there are the' thing's which should have

Motion of thanks [ 23 DEC. 1939 ] on the President's 214 Address is a rejection. We have accepted the veruiet gracefully because we aid not get a majority, SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Madam, Kindly see how much time they are eating up. SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; There was no alternative. SHRI GHULAM RASOOL MATTO SHRI ANAND SHARMA; All right. No (Jammu and Kashmir); Mr. Gopalsamy is thi alternative. Conceded.. Even if you say that, 1 villain of the piece. He does not allow would like to point out that we accepted the anybody to speak. verdict because we never wanted to SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: He is enjoying compromise on principles. We never wanted the interruptions. to go in for unprincipled alliances as is reflected in what you have done. It is the SHRI ANAND SHARMA; Where is the saffron of the B. J. P., the khaki shorts of the question of mandate? This is the B. J. P., the red flag of the C. P. I.: (M) and Govtrnment of the second largest party, the green of Devi Lai. We never wanted to go supported by the third and the fourth largest in for such unprincipled alliances. We never parties. And this Government promises to wanted that. (Interruptions) perform, perform miracles! May 1 remind by SHRI B. SATYANARAYAN REDDY friends on the other side that to perform as a (Andhra Pradesh): We are all citizens of this Government, it requires ideological clarity, country. Don't forget that. (Interruptions) 'consensus, unanimity and unity in approach? But here we have a Government which SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; In all democratic has three different manifestos. If you talk countries of Europe, there is coalition of ihe verdict of the people, if you talk of Government. rejection, of the people the SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Madam, in the has folded into a regional front, by President's Address... I think, the Leader of decimating the D. M. K of Shri Gopalsamy the House is quite unfair... and by routing the T. D. P. of Shrimati THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; We are Renuka Chowdhury. I do not know why sorting out some problem in regard to you are laughing about. You must be shedding allocation of time. You go ahead. I am tears for Rama Rao. hearing you. [THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Madam, the ) in the President's Address says that there is a Chair]. mandate. Mandate for whom? I do SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: I concede that we did not get a majority. But am shedding tears for you. who has got the mandate? After the campaign of vilification by this unprincipled SHRI ANAND SHARMA; We do alliance, they have managed to only around 140 not need. The Congress is strong enough to seats and they claim that they have a take care of itself. (Interruptions) mandate. (Interruptions) What is the percentage SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: You have to joint of votes secured by them, all the three put the A. I. A. D. M. K. (Interruptions) together? The Janata Dal has secured 17 per SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Mr. Vice- cent of the votes, the C. P. I. (M) has secured Chairman, this is the state of the National 9. 1 per cent and the B. J. P., 11 per cent. Fornt and its Government. Its manifesto is These three parties put together have less totally opposed to the manifesto of the BJP percentage of votes than the percentage of votes which calls for scrapping the minority polled by the Congress. Where is the mandate? commission, repealing article 370 and differs SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: with KF on varions oher issues. So, it is a They are all Indians. (Interruptions'). minority Government with the support of two extremes the BJP and the Left and with three manifestoes. It is a peculiar situation.

215 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 216 Address SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: It is really a know what had happened to the dignity of the peculiar situation. country. I for one thought that India was held in the highest elsteem because of its SHRI ANAND SHARMA; Manifesto is principled stand on international issues one only and on one manifesto, one ideology, because of its sound policies and political one programme the Government can perform, stability. I never thought that after India's but here the situation is different. As far as indeipendence the dignity of the nation had they are concerned, their state is of an suffered in any respect, but here an impression unfortunate man with weak legs, but that is being given that this nation has no dignity unforunate man is arrogant enough of claim or had no dignity till Shri Vishwanath Pratap that he is strong enough to participate in an Singh became the Prime Minister, that India athletic competition. That individual manages had lost all its prestige. I strongly object to to stand with the help of two crutches, the left this reference in the President's Address. It is crutch and the right crutch, representing two a matter of shame. We all are Indians, A extreme forces in the Indian polity and the change of Government does not mean that moment this person tries to move the crutches you denitirate the prestige of the nation. In the move in two different directions and it is past also you questioned the very dignity of bound to fall flat on the face and that too in the nation and its people- They should have the mild created by this unprincipled and been a bit more careful there. I do not know unholy alliance. That individual is none other when the dignity had suffered. than, the Self—eulogising leader of the present Government Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh (Interruptions). I said leader of the SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: Since 1984. Present Government . I am an Indian, I feel 9ad that India has SHRI ANAND SHARMA: I am reminded of Vishwanath Pratap Singh as the Prime the period when the Janata Government was Minister. in power and India which was the leader of the third world was not even referred to at the SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: As a henchman Havana Summit of the non-aligned countries. It of you have to be sad. was not even represented by a ministerial-level (Interruptions). delegation. Again when the Government of India did not take a principled stand on the US SHRI ANAND SHARMA; Sir, it is invasion of Panama... that is where the. prestige basically a marriage between incompatible of the country suffers. When you cannot stand parties where the parties to the marriage up to the diktat of Super Powers, that is where refuse to consumate the marriage and yet he India's; prestige suiters. When you try to has promised to give a healthy baby. This is castigate the previous Government and allow a so because the BIP is outside, the CPM is situation where the Indian peace-keeping forces outside. They are parties to the marriage and in Sri Lanka are: being maligned, that is where they are promising to the nation through this you hurt the dignity of the nation your policy President's Address also that they will deliver. on Sri Lanka, wheresoever the withdrawal has How will they deliver when they refuse to taken place, there Has been a merciless consumate the marriage? massacre of the Tamils, that is where the SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY: dignity of the nation, suffers. When the Foreign Minister of Sri Lanka has the check to call the Do you want to be the midwife of some- Indian officials and Generals as a pack of liars thing... and the Government of India does not have the spine to take a stand but is busy in SHRI ANAND SHARMA: That is your maligning the policy of the previous job. Government, that is where the dignity of the nation suffers. The President's Address also calls for restoring the dignity of the nation and the diguity of an individual. I do not 217 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the Presidents '218 Address Sir, 1 do not have on add much in fact to lost all moral authority to do so. You cannot describe what they have done in such a short talk in terms of secular ideals ot progresive tenure to enhance the dignity of the nation! ideals. But, Sir, all the promises of this minority Government, including the talk of an alternative model of governance, sound like a Sir, I am talking of the valuse-based naive person claiming to be in a position to politics of Shri V. P. Singh because he is cany water in a basket. That is exactly what parading as a paragon of virtue and as a their claims are. crusader. Sir, before the elections, there was a communal build-up and the Janata Dal Leaders And, Sir, I will only mention one point were saying, "the left are our natural allies; we which is very important There is talk of value will have no truck with the BJP and the based politics, politics of principles, politics fundamentalist forces. " But the same of convictions. But Sir, if I have to refer to gentkunac who is the Prime Minister of the that, I would like to remind Mr. Yashwant Sinha, my good friend all the supporters of... country today, later himself being tuned the arrangement with the BJP; he chiselled that SHRI P. K. KUNJACHEN (): agreement of electoral under standing with Can I ask you one question? he Bharatiya which was then and is still today hugging the Shiv Sena. Not THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI only that, with amazing ability, ha SATYA PRAKASH MALAVIYA): Are you simultaneously worked out another yielding? arrangement—the understanding with the left parties. Certainly, he is a very capable SHRI ANAND SHARMA: I will yield, person! He can ran with the hare and hunt Sir. with the hound. If this is called the politics of convictions is, politics of principles, then SHRI P. K. KUNJACHEN: You are telling God help us, because at the timel of elections, about value-based politics. That is why I am when he had to corner Muslim vote the asking this question. You are ruling in minority vote, at the Mathura rally, he refused Tripura with the help of TUJS and you are in to share a platform with the BJP. And today he alliance with the League in Kerala and you is running a Government with the support of are rueing that. How can you talk of it when the BJP. This is politics of double dealing with you are aligning with communal forces? ccmmunalism. This i., politics of chicanery. SHRI ANAND SHARMA: I am very This is politics of cowardice. This is a grateful to the hon. Member. That is why I politics of compromise. It is not politics of yielded to him. principlts. And, Sir, it is not only that. After taking over as the Prime Minister, here we THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SATYA have a Prime Minister who doe, not take the PRAKASH MALAVIYA): You knew what name of Mahatama Gandhi the Father of the he would ask? Nation, in his first address to the nation. He does not go to Rajghat, but he goes to Shahi SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Yes, I knew Imam. I have no objection there. But T am what he would ask. As far as the leftists are only trying to explain his conviction. He did concerned they have lost all moral authority or right even to ask such a ques_ tion. I am not miss Mahatma Ghandhi's name by not referring to their earlier alliance with the accident. It was a design. It was to appease League. I am referring to their indirect those forces which have never accepted alliance or covert alliance with the Bharatiya Gandhi as the Father of the Nation. He had to Janata Party and through the BJP with that appease them. He had also make up with Shahi rabid chauvinistic party; called Shiv Sena Imam who supported him, after his alliance You have with

219 Motion-of thank* [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 220 Address Prime Minister he [Shri Anand Sharma] had criticised the former Prime Minister's security and his resident. He had said. "I will th© BJP because he has Co run the Gov- - ernment with the BJP support. So, this is not take that security. " He had also said, I value-based politics' In this politics of will not move to the Race Course Road principles? residence. ' Today you find a situation in which a man who, when asked. "Will you become Prime Minister"—I was watching it on the television, Sir—repeatedly said, "No. When ask; d. If your party consider you, "he replied, No. " It was an abrupt answer, sharp answer, "No. " But today he is the Prims Minister. He said, "One man one post. " Today he; is the Prime Minister of the country. He is the President of the Janata Dal. He is the Convenor of the; National Front. I do not know if any fourth post he has Not only that but T am worried when he says today... SHRI ANAND SHARMA Sir, my party will certainly adjust the time.

Sir, I was referring to the value-based SHRI ANAND SHARMA: I am just politics. Yesterday, Mr. Arif Mohd. Khan was finishing. telling us about the principled of his leader, his Government. He was also making the most unwarranted aspersions or remarks against my leader, the former Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, that he takes one decision in the morning and goes back on that decision in the evening. Our leader has been firm. During the elections his stand was clear that we would have no truk with communal forces. After the elections that stand has been Sir, this is a debate on the Peresident's kept. We accept the verdict of the people. We Address. Mr. Arif Mohd. Khan was saying all never made any effort whatsoever to form a that for 75 minutes yetsterday: Was he government. We did not make any overtures speaking on the President's Address? I am to any party. Here you have a leader of very confining myself to the President's Address. firm decision who says something, who The Presidents Address is an Address by the stircks it. Government which is headed by Mr. Vishwanath Pratap Singh. That is what I am In April 1987 Shri Vishwanath Pratap trying to say. Singh had said, "I will never accept any public office in my life. " In April, 1987 he had said Today when he says, "My Government will after his resignation, "Rajiv Gandhi is my follow a policy of vendetta, " I am worried as unquestioned leader for life. " Before an Indian. It is a warning to the nation becaus his expulsion from the Indian National here is a man who goes back on all what he Congress he had said, "I will die as a says. He acts exactly the opposite. Congressman. Nobody can snatch away my His own election, when we talk of value- right to being a Congressman from my based politics, was by fraud and deception. It hands. " After becoming the President of the is not what I am saying. His own party Janata Dal he had said, "One man one colleague, Mr. Chandrashekhar, his post. " I am against the principle of anybody holding more than one post. Before becoming the 221 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] on the President's 222 Address said so, how he was duped, how he was deceived position to tell the nation for how long these Yashwant Sinhaji, of coiarse, can throw some light incompatible parties without the consumation on how the Prime Minister whose own election was of the marriage will stay in marriage, will live by fraud and deception, is trying to dupe the nation together, but I can assure you one thing, they by making these tall claims. As far as corruption part can never deliver. With these words. I thank is concerned I don't have time to say much but the you. very apoint-ment of Mr. as Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission—he is really the symbol of morality and honesty in the country who has been indicted by various Commissions. I do not have to go into his track record because the Kuldip Singh Commission is still there. The report should come out. So he is there. That is the first act. Who have heen included as members of the Planning Commission? Sir, during the ejections there was a well-orchestrated campaign by the so-called "Indcpend-nt Initiative" to malice the Congress and to malign the former Prime Minister and to dupe the people. Then I had said that this is no "Independent Initiative" but nobody believed it. This was a partisan group.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SAT-YA PRAKASH MALAVIYA): Now, I am going to call the next speaker.

SHRI ANAND SHARMA; I am concluding. Sir. Please! listen the names. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SATYA PRAKASH MALAVIYA): Please conclude.

SHRI ANAND SHARMA: I am concluding Who were the people? Mr. L. C. Jain has been made a member of the Planning Commission. Mr. Rajni Kothari has been made a member of the Planning Commission. Now at least that mask has been snatched away. These who were masquerading as "Independent Initiative were partisan. They are the ones who are the new found allies of Mr. Hegde. Sir, I will conclude by saying that this Govern, ment would do better to look inwards ana to make only those claims which it is in a position to fulfil end to carry or. with the exercise where you are only . eiving platitudes and false promises. It is in no position to assure that. It is in no

223 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 224 Address problems Have you ever done mat during long rule? (Interruption). SHRI JAGESH DESAI: No, I want to make it clear, (interruptions)-

SHRI JGESH DESAI: Is this the White Paper?

SHRI CHATURANAN MISHRA: This paper is white. I was telling you it is not red. I do not cxpect miracles. What I was telling you is for the first time an open White Paper has come on economic situation and we invite you to come and join us and solve the national economic- 225 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] cm the President's 226 Address

l. oo P. M.

THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Don't disturb him. Please conclude now.

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: It is a Government of compromises.

SHRI CHATURANAN (MISHRA: Wily are1 you interruption Mr. Narayanasamy? There is a fruit called 'bel'. I do not know much English. I do not know what English word for it is

THE DEPUT YCHAIRMAN: "BelT only.

727 RS—8. 227 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 228

Why are you getting disturbed? I did not disturb any of you (Interruptions). SHRI DIPEN GHOSH (): After they lost power, they have lost their sense of humour also.

229 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 230 Address

231 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 232 Address SHRI A. G. KULKARNI (Maharashtra): cessions also. I do not know whether in the I. Madam Deputy Chairman, I am very (happy A. S. Mr. Yashwant Sinha has handled the that I got a chance to speak on the President's portfolio of agriculture. Address. Madam, I was much amused when my friend Chaturanan Mishra just now when SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: No, we he was speaking said that a miracle is not don't have portfolios. expected. And it is not expected actually, I am SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: We could not one with you. Miracles cannot be made within change the terms of trade for the last 42 years 10 —15 days. The entire country was ruled and you will not be able to do it for another for the last 42 years by the Congress Party, 50 years even though you might be in power except for two years when there was the because1 you are not aware of the terms of Janata Government. Madam Deputy Chair, trade. The farmers are the sufferers. Dryland man, I was really surprise that Shri Yashwant farmers and famers below 5 acres are very Sinha—he is going out now... (Interruptions) rnuch harassed by what you call the social structure of this country. This country is a feudal country. It is fragmented by castes and Yashwant Sinha, actually an intellectual many types of languages. Therefore, the bureaucrat, retired and joined polities. farmer who is concerned with the terms of trade is always at a loss. Only last year 1 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Resigned and quoted some figures here. At present, the joined not retired. figures for the last two or three months show that 16 per cent is the trade imbalance which SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Resigned and is a handicap for the farmer. Thus. 8000 joined politics. Perhaps my friend Vikal is a crores of rupees are transfe)rred Per year to farmer himself. I do not know now many the affluent and the elite sections in the urban other farmers are there. areas. As my friends are saying these are . SHRI YASHWANT SINHA (Bihar): No good intentions. But to get it dons you have to other farmers. touch not only the interests of the elite, but you have to make an operation on the elitist SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: You are a community in this country. Then only you ran costmetic fanner. (Interruptions) Madam touch the terms of trade. Otherwise you [Deputy Chairman, in the villages we have got cannot touch them. cows. And I have also got a cow at home and on the farm. When the first calf gets births, SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: That is because air goes in its cars it starts dancing. exactly what we want. Yeshwantji has made a speech. I was here. I was listening to him with interest. I have made SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: That is exactly a note of only two or three points with which I what you want. But I do not know wheher you am really concerned in the long-teTm interest can do it. Another problem is about these 10, of this country's development and its 000 rupees. Prof. is a very democratic stature. Madam here at page 6, honest friend of mine. Being a Professor and paragraph 27, they say: by profession being a teacher perhaps he thinks that everything is very nice, good, etc. "The Government will take steps to see He spoke to the Janata Dal Party yesterday that the terms of trade for the agriculture and said that the States must participate in the sector are improved and our farmers waiver operation. I do not understand. The receive remunerative prices fo their Janata Dal people say that they will wipe out produce. " these 10, 000 rupees worth of concessions, Then they say that the loans upto Rs. 10, etc. How do you expect the States to do it? It 000 will be waived for some landless means that you are now finding means to get agricultural labour, etc. (Interruptions) out of your commitment. Whatever it is. They might be given con- 233 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] on the Presidents 234 Address Please don't do it. Otherwise your position SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: He is not a wiil not be much different. I can speak much I Swami of that cult who sabotage democracy. have got figures here to quote. But it 'seems The other Swamis sabotage democracy. that there is no time for me. I will take another occasion in the Budget Session. Another thing AN HON. • MEMBER: What about is value-based politics and clean public life. Deoraha Baba? Madam, here at para 11, it is seated that a SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: I am not clean public life is the bedrock of democracy. enamoured of Babas. I care two hoots for Nobody is, disputing that, nobody has any Baba or any Swami. disputed that. You might have an intention also. Bui are you aware of the condition of the SHRI (Ma- politics the social status and all the difficulties dhya Pradesh): Baba Amte? in creating a. n atmosphere whethe clean, public life can be affected. Now the value-based politics and the moral values of the politician have gone down what you call to the lowest SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: I am level in this country. Nobody believes in a sorry. politician that he is honest enough. Nobody believes that Some party might have won SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Baba Amte is a there and some party might have won here, person who is weighed in gold. I "am but that has nothing 'to do with the value- coming to that Chandra Swami affair, and based polities. the other Swami's nam© is also here, but 1 Madam, yesterday, my colleague, Mrs. Alva do not want to mention it.. made her speech and she named some AN HON. MEMBER: Why. people. I am not interested in naming people. Here also somebody named. It is no using SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Because it Is, naming people. Madam, the nexus between hot proper for me to name some of our the big money, the criminals and the colleagues. politicians has to be broken. And I have Mr. Sinha, j. stay on a road called Shah, written to the new Prime Minister that this jahan Road; my number is 92 Shahjahan was the pledge which you gave to the Road. Just five bungalows on the left, there country and what steps are you proposing to are other Members of the Rajya Sabha. We take. Madam In this connection, I draw the at- usually go lor a walk in the early morning. tention of the House to a very enlightened Before the elections there-were about 500 article, perhaps, in the 'Onlooker', written by jeeps standing on that road. I thought that this Janardhan Thakur. I am not going to quote it man must be contesting some election and he because it is a very long article. But out' of might have brought them. The. elections are that, you can see the havoc created by Swamis over. Then I came back on the 27th or on the in this country. Are you aware of that? I You dav the Prime Minister was elected. Then I may "please read that saw there about 300 box-type (Marutis. article. " When we go for a walk, there is some AN HON. ' MEMBER: ' Are you referring to constraint on the road because it is a very Subramanian Swamy? SHRI A. G. small road an ante-road. I just asked a driver; KULKARNI: There are "Where are you coming from?" He. said "from Man Singh Road, Taj many. Swamis; not_ only Subramanian Swamy. " This. is one. type of Swamis. Mahal Hotel" Taj Mahal Hotel having 500 Matruti cars! Somethnig fantastic. Then, I There. is Chandra Swami. there is Rajni read this 'Onlooker'. What does it say? It says : Swami and. Swamis. and-Swami are there. this country AK HON.. MEMBER There "A crestfallen Dhirubhai is Mr. Ambani lands. -in Delhi and parks himself at Narayanasamy. 212, Taj Mahal Hotel Here.,. you • have started. Here your value-based, po-titics has started. Thene is another thing. 235 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 236 Address SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN: attending parties given by politicians and Whose house is it, in Shahjahan Road? taking drinks. How are you going to ensure) value-based politics? This nas gone to the SHRI A G. KULKARNI: I do not know. judiciary. Here, there is another thing. There One has to find out. is Mr. Chaturvedi He is the Comptroller and Auditor-General of India. This to be pondered SHRIMATI JAYANTHI NATARAJAN: I over by all politicians. think, it is Mr. 's. SHRI G. SWAMINATHAN (Tamil Nadu): SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: I uphold the What is wrong with Mr. Chatur_ vedi? convention of this House. SHRI A. G. KULKARNI; There is nothing There is another thing. The jetset tan-trik wrong. He is the Comptroller and Auditor- can hardly be away when the power is General of India. He says that there is lack of changing hands in the Capital. October has a value-based political system in the country. been a busy month for him. His camp address What else you want ? Ir you want, you can was: Safdarning Development Area, the flat read it. of wrestler Dara Singh or whoever it is. This is another Swamy coming in. Then, there is a Now, Madam, in regard to value-based third Swamy, there is a fourth Swamy and politics, these are the difficulties which we many Swa-mys and capitalists particularly, should ponder over. I say, as a politician and the Ambani clan. political worker of 45 years in the Congress, there should be a stable democracy. I want I would like to ask you. What do you that there should be: a two-party system. It preach and what do you do? If there is a does not matter if one party wins and the difference, your fate will not be that of a other loses. There is nothing wrong. But the successful Government, but a Government of splinter groups make it very difficult, for the Janata type), which was dit-ch?d by the democracy to be sustained. people in the dustbin. Therefore, for heaven's sake, do not talk of value- based politics. There is another point. This is for the {Interruptions). information of Mr. Vajpayee also. It is on Madam Deputy Chairman, a clean public page 2, para 9. It says A secular India is the life is not an easy thing. It is not an easy thing. very basis of our emotional unity and national It requires personal involvement of the integration" That is great. Any politician, any political workers. Otherwise, you cannot political worker whether in the Congress Party ensure a clean public life. Coming in a Maruti or in any other party whether he is a or in a Standard car from Madras and Communist or belongs to any other party, attending Parliament; making money outsider wou'4 agree with this because secularism is and using the forum of Parliament for this there in our blood, but I am really surprise purpose. We are not Of that type. I request the when in Maharashtra Justice Bharucha Prime Minister. He will hav© to be very delivered a judgment in case of Mr. Prabhu careful because power attracts synchophants. who was a Shiv Sena MLA stating that Shiv Do not be under any illusion. Power attracts Sena were| fighting on a Hinduty label. Here synchophants. {Time bell rings) Madam, only you are saying that you want an open two or three minutes more. information system. Mr. Thakre on 23rd December 1989—Mr. Vajpayee to please Here, there is an information which I hist taote—givels an interview on TV. I can read. The ex-Chief Justice of this country understand that anybody can give an inter_ who recently retired, Mr. Venkata-ramalah, view on TV but here the use of TV is made by has complained that, nowadays, High Court Mr. Thakre for creating a conflict betweien and Supreme Court Judges are two communities, I do not'

237 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1983 J on the President 238 Address doubt the intention of this Government Ambanis, Thapars, Goenkas or Oswals, or J so far as secularism is concerned. I do not Wadias... (Interruptions) You can add Suri doubt even Mr. Sinha or Mr. V. P. Singh also. All these people have) to be taught or anybody else here Most of you have with a long bamboo. Otherwise, whatever gone from COngress(I): your policy, it will not last for more than six months because psycho-phants will come in SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Not me. and they will see that the image of the Prime Minister is dama-maged. SHBI A. G. KULKARNI: You may not be there because you are a Bihari! and [THE VICE CHABRMAN (SHRI JAGESH DESAI) in the Chair] Sir, Biharis have their own brand. I would plead with you. I will beg of you SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Do you to consider the long-term interests of this mean to say that there are no Biharis in country. If the democracy has to be your Congress? sustained, for that purpose, poli-tical SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: What I want parties have to adopt certain value-based to say is that these matters of secularism systems. It is hot only for speaking had to be carefully consideretf by because I can give umpteen instances. But I politicians. think the Mover of the Resolution while replying, will take care of our feelings. Madam Deputy Chairman, the two terms These are our feelings. So, Mr. Vice- dharmasata and dhansata have to be seg- Chairman. I thank you very much. regated from politics and that is the diffi- culty with the present political behaviour THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- of the new party which you have formed. GESH DESAI): Mr Madan Bhatia. You Madam, I really want it to be done have to finish within ten minutes. through Shri V. P. Singh if he is really interested in changing the system in the SHRI MADAN BHATIA (Nominated): interest of the poor man, changing the Sir, I was told I can have 12 minutes. system in the interest of a small man. Anyway, Sir, the Mover of this Motion What did the Ambanis come for? The. was Mrs. Yashwant Sinha. I always listen Ambanis helped Congress also. In every to his speech with great respect. He is political party's pocket they have their hand unsparing to the Opposition He was un- and we must understand that such people sparing in his speeches to the Government do not believe in democracy, they do not when he was sitting in the Opposition. believe in capitalism, they only believe in But I respeet his right of democracy to their own benefits. express his views which he holds. I res- peet him because he always maintained SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: I agree with and. in his speech on. the Presidential Ad- you. dress, he again maintained high norms of political decency, political morality and SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Thank you political dignity. But I must say with very much. Your Mr. Karunanidhi should distress that I was shocked and appalled be away from bottldggers. at -the rock-bottom of political decency, political morality and political dignity SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: We have which no less a person than a member of broken the empirei of bottleggers. Their the Cabinet struck last night from the floor empire has been submerged. of this hon'ble House. Since the time is very short, I can. deal only one by one with SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Should I some of the points which he made. name that bottlegger king in Madras? THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: Adayar. GESH DESAI): Within ten minutes. Not more than that in any case. SHRI A. G KULKARNI: I am Inter- ested in the change of the system. These 239 Motion o) thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on. the President's 240 Address SHRI MADAN BHATIA: I will try my Second, Sir, he has re-asse|rted the state- best. First of all, he desired the former Prims ment which is contained in this Address by he Minister for having become the signatory President. The Address says: himself to the Punjab Accord. May I ask him, was he not a member of the Council of 'My Government pledges itself to ful-fill Ministers when this Accord was signed? Did the mandate given to it by the people. he protest? Did he resign from the Council of Ministers when Mr. Rajiv Gandhi put his He has re-asserted that this Government has signature to the Punjab Accord? Was not his received the mandate of the people, the leader, who is the present Prime; Minister of people of India. I am not clear in my mind the country a full-fledged member of th© whether this Government is a Janata Dal Cabinet at the time! when this accord was Government or a National Front Government. signed? Did he not remain a member of the Cabinet for almost two years after the signing SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: Why? of this particular Accord? Did this Accord not receive the acclaim of all the political parties, . SHRI MADAN BHATIA: Well, I take it cutting across party lines from both Houses of that it is the Government of National Front. Parliament? It is convenient, because the But, I am not sure, when the) President former Prime (Minister is no longer in power, extended the invitation, whether the invitation to stand up and say in an abusive language was extended to the Janata Dal or to the against all that he did. Sir, it is a matter of his- National Front. But it is taken for granted that tory in this country that the Government of this is a Government of the National Front. India has entered into accords with the The National Front put up more than 400 political elements within the country itself. candidates throughout India and went to the There has been the Mizoram Accord, there has people of India seeking the mandate to govern been the Assam Accord, there was an accord this country for a period of five years. What relating to Gorkha problem in Darjeeling. No was the fate of the National Front? The doubt those agreements OK accords were National Front did not get more than 145 seats signed on behalf of the| Government of India throughout India. The National Front which or high dignitaries or officials of the was seeking a mandate of the people by Government of India. (Nevertheless, those means of its majority to rule this country for a were the accords to which the Government of period of five years, was rejeced by people of India was a signatory. When this Accord was India lock, stock and barrel. It is not the signed by the former Prime Minister, he did Congress (I) which is identifying the people not sign it in his individual capacity as Mr. of India with the people of the South; it is the Rajiv Gandhi or ah the Prime Minister of National front and the Janata Dal which are India. (He signed it as the Prime Minister of identifying the people of India with the people India on behalf of the Government of India. of the three States from which the Janata Dal Why did he choose to sign this Accord alone has been able to garner the majority of himself? Because of its vital national im- 100 seas. The people of Uttar Pradesh, the portance to the entire country, because of his people of Orissa and the people of Bihar alone patriotic spirit to "out an end to the agony of do not constitute the people of India. The the people of Punjab because of the fact that people of India the people having in 31 States the, other signatory to this Accord happened and Union Territoriets of India. to be the most illustrious and most respected leader of the most, virile community in India, SHRI B. SATYANARAYAN REDDY: namely, the Sikhs. Was it a political crime? Or All are the parts of this country. The country was it an act of patriotism which led him to is one. You cannot differentiate between sign this Accord in total disregard of his them. personal ego. as the Prime Minister of India? 241 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] on the President's 242 Address SHRI MADAN BHATIA; I think, my hon. Commission. He nas said that a commission friend understands what I am speaking. headed by a judge of the Supreme Court found that individual guilty of having a SHRI B. SATYANARAYAN REDDY: I hand in the assassination of Mrs. Gandhi, If this understand. is the level of responsibility and intelligence displayed by a Member of the Cabinet of this SHRI MADAN BHATIA; This statement Government God help this Government. If he that this Government has received the cannot understand the difference between the mandate given to it by the people is a expression of suspicion and finding of the guilt, statement which is replete with political this only shows the level of his intelligence and arrogance and self-deception. the level of his bitterness against the particular individual viz, the hon. former Prime Minister Third, Mr. Arif Mohd. Khan stopped just because he rehabilitated him after he was to the level of decrying the Prime Minis cleared after a thorough investigation which ter for the use of the car which was pre was recommended by the Thakkar sented to the Prime Minister of India by Commission. I would like to share an a foreign Head of State. In this regard I information with this hon. House on the basis can only give one precedent to say that of my personal knowledge. In 1987 and in when a car is presented to the Head of the 1988, this very Minister, Mr. Aril Mohd. Khan Government or the Head of the State, it visited this individual twice first by seeking an is meant to be used by the Head of the appointment and secondly without any Government and the Head of the State, appointment by barging into his house. He tried I will give one example. Bangladesh pre to instigate him against Mr. Rajiv Gandhi had sented a car ...... tried to persuade him to join hands with him and his comperes against Mr. Rajiv THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JAG-ESH Gandhi. He received a rebuff. He was told that DESAI): No, you have taken ten tes. Now till the last breath of his life what ever agony please conclude. he had gone through at the hands of that particular commission he will remain loyal to SHRI MADAN BHATIA: I have not taken Mr. Rajiv Gandhi and that he was not a turn- ten minutes, Sir. I have taken only five coat. This is the background of the bitterness miutes. which has partly contributed to this wild allegation against the report of the Thakkar THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JAG- Commission on the Part of the hon. Minister. GESH DESAI): No, you have taken ten minutes. Since the time is short, I would only mention this. The SHRI MADAN BHATIA: Kindly give me with its traditions of civilized political just five minutes more. behaviour and conduct spreading over a period of more than the last one hundred years THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JAG- and its leader nurtured in the family and ESH DESAI): So many Congress Members political traditions of Mr. have to speak. That way I will not be able to and Mrs. Gandhi are too lofty to be reached accommodate. by the vituperous fulminations of the political renegade. But SHRI MADAN BHATIA; A car was I submit that so far presented by Bangladesh to Mrs. Gandhi. as my leader is con- That car was used frequently by Mrs. Gandhi. cerned, his patriotism and his conviction were' When Mrs Gandhi ceased to be Prime displayed only the other day in the other Minister, that car was used by the Prime House of Parliament. He lost the power. He Minister, Mr. , as well. squarely put the question to the present Prime Third, he made a reference to one indi- Minister —What is your stand on Khalistan? vidual who b not a Member of this House on He received no reply. He put the question— the basis of the report of the Thakkar 243 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 244 Address what is your stand on the Anandpur Sahib have |so much difficulty because there are-so Resolution? He received no reply. He put the many Congress Members and they will not be question—what is your stand on the re-emergence of able to get time. fundamentalism in Punjab? He received no reply. He put th© question—what is your stand against the subversive forces operating from across the border giving full encouragement and active support to the terrorists in Punjab and Kashmir? He got no answer. I salute the blazing patriotism of my leader.

SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: He has refe-red to a member of the other House. I am on a point °f order. Sir, I am °n a point of order. Can he quote the procejed-ings of the Other House here?

SHRI MADAN BHATIA: This is part of common public knowledge... (Interruptions).... To stood up.. (Interrup, tions)..

THE VICE-CHAlRMAN (SHRI JAG-ESH DESAI): You should not quote what happened in SHRI MADAN BHATIA: Sir, just half-a- minute. I forgot to add one thing. the other House. SHRI MADAN BHATIA; This is part of public THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JAG- knowledge. I am only submitting that my leader.... ESH DESAI): Now you cannot make further THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JAG-ESH speech. I cannot allow it under the rules.. DESAI): NOW, please conclude. (Interruptions).. Once the speech is made, I cannot allow it. The rules prohibit it. SHRI MADAN BHATIA: 1 will take only one minute. My. leader has stood up SHRI MADAN BHATIA: All I want to say and be counted that he is against "Khalis- was the car was returned on the 29th tan"—he is against Anandpur Sahib re November by Mr, Rajiv Gandhi. solution----- he is against reemrgence of fundamentalism in Punjab—he is against Gurudwaras being turned into sanctuaries for terrorists and for weapons which are to 'be used for killing innocent people. I wish to convey to this hon. House and to the entire nation that the entire Congress party stands up along with its leader and is willing to be counted that the Congress party is bemad its leader and is willing to be counted that it is against Khalilstan— it is against Anandpur Sahib resolution— it is against fundamentalism—it is against use of Gurudwaras as a sanctuary for weapons and for terrorists. Lastly, Sir,... THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JAG-ESH DESAI); No, please sit down, I

245 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 246 Address

247 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 248 Address

249 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the Presidents, 250 Address SHRI DEBA PRASAD RAY (West is reason to presume, that the child which has Bengal); Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I ' rise to been born may turn out to be a deaf and participate in the discussion on the Motion of dumb child, may turn out to be a mentally Thanks moved by Mr. Yashwant Sinha, retarded child. There is a reason to presume Members are pondering over the issues that that. found place in the president's speech. I Sir, the honourable Member, Shri personally feel that what is more important to Yashwant Sinha, was boasting of one fact. He ponder over is under what background the was boasting of the fact that the Prime speech has been delivered. It has been Minister visited Amritsar in an open jeep. He delivered at a point of time when the slogan for has visited Amritsar in an open jeep. Leave Khalistan has again been raised in the land of alone the question of going in an open jeep, Punjab; it has been delivered at a point of time even if he goes bare-bodied who is going to when the minority students have been kill him? Even it he goes bare-bodied, who asked to leave Punjab by the extremists; it has would kill him? I am asking this question been delivered at a point of time when caste because he has not fought against extremists. war has begun in the form of anti-reservation Has he ever fought against extremists? Has he stir with the advent of casteist forces as ruling uttered a single word against the extremists in, powers of the country; it has been delivered at a Punjab? Has he taken any vow to fight point of time when the Vishwa Hindu Parished terrorism in the land of Punjab. It was our has again put forward its demand to go ahead leader, the former Prime Minister, Mr. Rajiv with the construction of the temple in ; Gandhi, who was busy fighting the ter-rorists it has been delivered at a point of time when the in Punjab while Mr. V. P. Singh was fighting extremists are kidnapping the. representatives with him to capture power. So, he can go there of people every day. While the priority before in an open jeep. Even if he goes bare-bodied the nation is to combat extremism, while the nobody would kill him because he never priority before the nation is to picked up any fight to fight the terrorists in preserve the integrity and unity of the Punjab. nation, this Government has staffed its journey... (Interruptions).. with' the priority to remove officers from important positions. So, The; President's Speech has mentioned— the L. G. Delhi, has been removed; the and Mr. Jaswant Sinha has clarified further— Vice-Chairman, DDA, has been removed; the that the people have voted for a change. The Administrator, NDMC has been removed. And people have voted for a change and be has also that is the priority we have seen in this said that it is applicable to the States where we Government. The honourable Prime Minister, have Opposition-ruled Governments. If this is while addressing the other, House, made an a fact, I would like to ask one question in appeal to the Leader of the Opposition that it is a relation to another issue, the other day, Mr. newly-born baby, just fifteen days before, and Gurudas Das Gupta said that West Bengal is a so, the Government should be given time before part and parcel of India and it is an integral answers are sought. I appreciate it. I appreciate part of India and it cannot be seen in isolation. that it is a newly-born baby. I know that the I want to know, if the people of India have Government that has come out of the womb voted for a change how come the people of of communalism is still in a state of maternity. West Bengal have voted for status quo? How But when a child is born, the main thing that come they have not voted for a change? The worries the doctors the most is whether the child fact is that the people of West Bengal have cries or not. Unfortunately, this child has not voted for a change; but it was not allowed to cried although it has been born. It has not be reflected in the ballot boxes. Can you cried when the invasion of panama took place; imagine that Mr. Priva Ranjan Das Munshi it has not crield when the Sri Lankan would have-lost by 1, 400 votes when it was Government maligned the Indian Army. So, found behind the Collectorate that about 2, there is reason to believe, there 000 ballot papers stamped on the hand symbol

251 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 252 Address [Shri Deba Prasad Ray] Mr. Devi Lai has been appointed the Deputy Prime Minister, they do not agree to that were lying? Can you imagine that Ms Mamata proposition. It has been decided to resolve all Banerjee, who polled four lakh odd votes, was the issues by consensus and by consensus Mr. made to lose the election now? Can you Chautala has been made the Chief Minister of believe that Shri Ananda Mohan Biswas, who ! I want to know what is your had polled about 4, 16, 000 votes, has been made to lose the election now? It was a approach towards the problem of Babri mockery of democracy in Bengal and the Masjid-Ram lanam Bhoomi, when do you like people who have buried democracy in West to have a consensus to solve the problem? Bengal are posing as champions of democracy When do you propose to have an all party on the floor of this House. meeting to resolve the problem by consensus? When do you propose to call an all party meeting, because the Marxist party has I am told that Mr. Samar Mukherjee has already requested you to call a meeting of all said that Mr. Rajiv Gandhi's Government was parties to resolve it? I want to know from promoting capitalism and that the them. There has been a commitment in the Government is promoting socialism in West speech that extremism would be fought. Bengal, And, Sir, to promote socialism, all the Extremism has been fought by the people of eminent socialists of the country have been this country who will remember two evente in assembled there! These socialist leaders political history. On one occasion one Prime include Diru-bhai Ambani, they include Viren Minister sacrificed her life because she did Shah, they include Singhania and they include not prefer to prostrate before the extremists. Mittal. All of them have gone there to give co-operation to the Government to They will remember Shrimati . establish socialism in West Bengal and he is And they will remember another occasion having a honeymoon with these 'socialists' when the Prime Minister decided to prostrate there! before the extremists because he chose to prostrate before the extremists to rescue Rubiya, The people of India will remember The amount of violence that has been this. There has been a commitment in the unleashed and the amount of torture and speech to punish the culprits connected with persecution that have been unleashed, I 1984 riots. We accept it. You take action. And would like to tell. I would like to tell action has been taken. Two hundred cases those Members there through you that have been framed. Twenty people have been they should be able to read the punished. You can punish people whoever is writing on the wall. They should responsible for the 1984 riots. I want the be able to read the writing on the wall and Government to take action. But I would like if they are not able to read the writing on to point out one thing. Since 1983, 10, 000 the wall, I would like to tell on this occa families have come to Delhi who have been sion on the floor of this House that there may be another Romania in West Bengal languishing in several camps in Delhi, who and* * * * have been languishing there. Would you take I would like to tell on the floor of this note of their problems also? Would you take House that in the President's Address, it has of their plight also? I am from a family which been said that the Government will be migrated from Bangladesh. I have been told deciding all the major issues by consensus. by my parents that we had land there, we had All the major issues will be decided by one house, we had a garden there. But what I conseius. This is what it says. And, Sir by have been told by my parents would always consensus it was decided that Mr. remain a story because I can never go back to would be made the Deputy Prime Mi ister. that part of the land because that became a Yesterday, in an interview, Comrade yoti foreign land.. And the hapless Basu has said that the way

*Expur ed as ordered by the Chair.

253 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989 ] on the President 254 Address children of these migrants are also being told become Industry Minister, People could be the same stories by their aunties and located to become Petroleum Minister. People mummies. I would like to know whether their could be located to become Minister for all the stories will always remain stories or they will lubricating places. But a person could not be have an opportunity of going back to found to become Education Minister. Gurdaspur and Ferozepur to see that they ! have also their land, their own houses there. I Only a few days back when the Bill was brought here to extend reservations for would like to know whether they are going to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes we! take note of the plight of these people. stood bythis Government. If at all you decide to give right to work as, fundamental right to In the speech it is also mentioned that the the younger generation, we still stand by Government would make efforts to remove you—the generation whom we have given the corruption from public life. A welcome this right to vote let them get the right to work proposal. But how can you justify the from you. But why is your Minister speaking appointment of a person to the post of Deputy in a different language outside? Why is Ram Chairman of the Planning Commission, Vilas saying somthing else? Why is against whom the Kuldip Singh Commission Soli Sarabjee saying Something else? has been holding an inquiry? I would like to Something is being said on the flour and welcome this proposal. I would like to know something else is being said by the same from them, how can you justify the political party outside. I do not get any answer appointment of a person to a very important from them. The speech has also said that the position against whom there is a charge of Government will pursue the path of non- depositing foreign currency in ST. Kills alignment. It will stick to the concept of non- Island. Let them clarify. alignment. It will adhere to the principles of non-alignment. Sir, I think it was the darkest I would like to tell you, Sir, that a decision occasion for the Indian non-alignment has been taken to give autonomy to movement when the Government failed to Doordarshan. This autonomy has been react when Panama was invaded. It is the enjoyed by the public when the episode of same country which appropriately reacted Ram Jetmalani was projected. But what is when Sueze Canal episode took place in 1956. happening under the carpet is that when the It is the same country which reacted former Governor of Punjab wanted his speech appropriately when the Korean war was to be telecast from the Jalandhar Doordarshan fought in 1950. It is the same country which and Jalandhar Doordarshan sought clearance reacted appropriately when Madam Binh's from Delhi, Delhi denied permission to Government was to be recognised. It is the Jalandhar Doordarshan and the speech of the same country which reacted appropriately Governor of Punjab was not screened on that when the question about the recognition of particular day. If this is the concept of Palestinian Government came. It is the same autonomy, I castigate this concept of country which reacted appropriately when the autonomy, I depricate this concept of question to give recognition to SWAPO came. autonomy. (Time bell rings). And the same country could not speak out a single word when Panama was invaded. It This is going to be my last Speech on the could not even call an invasion an invasion. floor of this House. Give me little time, And they are saying that they will be protect- because I am retiring. ing the concept of non-alignment movement. The speech has also said that the education system would be reformed. That is why 15-20 At the end, the speech has also said that days have been sought. No competent person it has been an historic session. Yes, has been found to become the Education Minister. People could be located to become Commerce Minister. People could be located to 255 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 256 Address [Shri Deba Prasad Ray] ruling the country. It has struggled for independence for 62 years and it has ruled the it has been an historic 'session because for the country for 40 years. Congress cannot die. first time in Indian history a Government had Congress will continue to exist. So long as the to start its journey by seeking a Vote of prayers are sung in the temples and mosques Confidence from the Members of the House. of this country, Congress will continue to per- Why? Because the President was doubtful sist, Congress will continue to exist. So long about the strength of this Government. It is as the water flows down the rivers of Ganga historic because for the first time the leader of and Godavari, Congress will continue to the single largest party declined to form the persist, Congress will continue to exist. So Government and voluntarily requested the long as Gurbani is recited in the Gurudwaras President to dissolve the Parliament. Although of this country, Congress will continue to he could have reamined Prime Minister till persist Congress will continue to exist. So January, 1990, he declined to form the long as the ding dong sound of the bells Government. It is the historic occasion which comes from the Churches of this country, the President has made a mention. The other Congress will continue to exist Congress will day when Mr. Gurudas Das Gupta was continue to persist. With these words, I speaking, he said that he understood our conclude. anguish. I would like to say that we have no anguish. We have no regret, no repen-tence. SHRI SUKOMAL SBN(West Bengal): We have no demoralisation because we know Sir, I am on a point of order. Sir, when the that even in defeat our stand has been hon. Member was speaking, I did not vindicated, because we know that even in intervene considering that it is his farewell defeat our commitment to secularism has not speech.. (Interruptions) He has made a been diluted, because we know that despite dangerous comment, a dangerous allusion the defeat in the elections we have upheld the that. * * principles of secularism. We will continue to hold the flag of secularism high because that Sir, it is a most dangerous and is our commitment. Government or no objectionable comment. I expected that from government, we will continue to tell the your side you will intervene... people of this country, we will continue to appeal to the people of this country: THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- GESH DESAI): I will examine it.

SHRI SUKOMAL SEN: It should be deleted.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- GESH DESAI): I will examine this. The hon. Minister. Mr. , said yesterday that the Congress is no SHRI SUKOMAL SEN: Then, Sir, the, longer a party to conjure with. How do you election that was held.. (Interruptions) .. last know Congress? You came and you went month was held for Parliament and not for the back. You came, stayed with us for some time Assembly. So, the people of West Bengal and went back. Many Arifs may come and voted for a change in the Parliament. I want many Arifs may go, but the Congress will go to make it clear. on forever. Because the history of the Indian National Congress is the synonym of the THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- history of the Indian Freedom Struggle. GESH DESAI): You may differ with him. Congress cannot die. Congress cannot get extinguished. Congress has a longer history Now, Mr. Subramanian Swamy. of struggle than of SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Jyoti Basu is also wedded to the Stalinist concept.

*Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

257 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 258 Address There is an uprising against that concept. It is Tibetans that they should step up their in that context he said it. campaign to declare Tibet at an independent State. Today's 'Times of India says: SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: One may/ have a day-dream. We. do not bother about it. 'Mr. Fernandes is believed to have (Interruptions. ) assured the Tibetans that he would end. eavouir to influence the policy of the SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: Mr. National Front Government in favour of Vice-Chairman, Sir, when you see the events struggle for a free Tibet. Mr. Fernandes around the world, one is justifiably proud that explained that the demand for an in India we have had an orderly and independent Tibet had assumed relevance constitutional transfer of power. Romania has in the context of the current surge in just been mentioned. And I hope that neither eastern Europe against the established in the Centre nor in any State any political communist regimes. " leader has to meet the fate of what the leaders of Romania have met. And indeed it would be This is a statement from a Cabinet Minister a matter of a tribute to the country if such an after having taken the oath of office. orderly transfer of power takes place. And the credit naturally goes to the, people of India So, Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I do not and all those who have, abided by the verdict want to take up too much of the time, but of the people. Although the ruling party here I would like to say that the. doubts about has made much of the fact that the Congress this Governments future have also been Party was voted out of power they also raised by the fact that it came on decep should remember that the President said in tion. Mr. Yashwant Sinha moved the Mo the invitation he gave to the Leader of the tion of Thanks. I do not know whether it ruling party to form the Government that was a deliberate torture on him. I since the largest party has declined to form do not know whether it was a deliberately- the Government, they are invited to form the inflicted torture on him or not. But I would Government. And we hope that the like to tell us whether in his heart of hearts Government will serve the people and last. I he believes that the Government.. (Inter only recall what Mr. Morarji Desai has said ruption) that was formed was properly while commenting on the formation of this farmed and that, he has no complaints. If new Gove|rnment. He said, ' I hope it will he has no complaints, he should say that last. " Indeed that is what is on the lips of the statement of Mr. almost everybody in the country. Will this that the Government was formed through Government last? I hope the Government will a trick is something which he does not. last. And indeed the statements being mad; by share. In fact, I know that most of the the various leaders and getting highlighted Members of the Janata Dal privately ex everyday makes me wonder whether Indeed pressed great consternation over the way they will be able to pull on. Already a number it came aboot. And we see that this is of statements have been quoted The Deputy continuing. Deception seems to be the Prime Minister. Mr. Devi Lai, is quoted as ' Hallmark of the key played of this Govern saying on the 17th December in Chandigarh ment. Even in the case of the selection of that Chandigarh would not be transferred to the Speaker of , it was through Punjab at any cost. On the one hand, you decerptfon and deception seems to be all have a situation where they talk about Punjab aronwl. (Interruptions). solution and on the other, you have the Deputy Prime Minister saying that there will SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: ■ Kindly do be a solution, but Chandigarh will not be not bring in the name of the Speaker. transferred to Punjab and that it will remain a (Interruptions), Union Territory. Then, you have another Cabinet Minister telling a rally of SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: T am 727 RS— 9. not commenting on the: proceedings of the other House. T am only talking about the selection. 259 Motion of thanks '[-RAJYA SABHA] cw the President's 260 Address AN HON. MEMBER: Something has been Now, Sir, under article 102 of the said about the Lok Sabha Speaker. Constitution, it is very clearly stated that if a competent court declares., a persons insane, be cannot hold any office. Either the then SHRI SUBRAMANIAM SWAMY: I did Home Minister has uttered a falsehood, or, if not say anything about the Lok Sabha he has not uttered a falsehood, I must say that Speaker I only ?ay that their party practised the present Prime Minister has no right to hold office under. 'the Constitution, deception in both the House. I do not think I {Interruptions) am saying something which is un- parliamentary. So long as I do not say things which are.. SHRI PUTTAPAGA RADHAKRISH- NA; We cannot discuss personal- rivalries here. (Interruptions) THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI- JA- SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: It is GESH DLSAI): Please do not refer to the not personal. (Interruptions). other House. SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; Mr. V. P; Singh has contradicted it. •. SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: He Can't I refer to the other House? Should should contradict it on the floor of I assume that the Lok Sabha does not Parliament. (Interruptions) In fact, I would exist? urge Mr. Yashwant Sinha, if he gets a chanee to reply,... (Interruptions)

Sir, this "deception has a long history. Even ' SHRI PUTTAPAGA RADHAKRISH- in the case of the Prime Minister, if you look at NA; Let them Settle their accounts put-side his past history, you see a long String of the House. Why should we... deceptions. I do not know which of them are true and which of them are not real SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY; As I deceptions. For example, some two Sessions said, this was said on. the floor of Parliament. ago, the then Home Minister described, on I cannot help it. If it had been said outside the floor of Parliament, how the present Parliament, certainly, I would have Said it Prime Minister and the then Chief outside. Minister of U. P., was able: to obtain lands given away to Bhoodan, how he was able to Therefore, I would certainly like Mr. recover it by an affidavit,.. (Interruptions) his Yashwant Sinha, or, somebody else autho. is according to the then Home Minister. I ritative like- him to contradict it, contradict do not know whether this is true or not. He what is part of the Parliamentary record has said on the floor of Parliament how the because this matter may well become a present Prime Minister was able to recover (subject of legal dispute in the future, - the lands on his wife presenting an affidavit Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, coming to the in the High Court saying 'My President's Address, you find that the theme in husband is insane' or was insane' and a the Address is, decrying the past. They have discharge slip from the Agra Mental decried everything that has happened in the Hospital was presented. This is not an past. Well, in that, T am willing to join with allegation. This was said by the then Home them provided the Prime Minister and several Minister on the floor of Parliament; This has of his Ministers make it clear to this House as to be contradicted and I will tell you why to what part of the past five years they own up it has to be contradicted. She also said that and what part of the past they reject. For even after the discharge, he was subjected example, the economy. Of the five Budgets to "bouts of insanity. that were presented by 261 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 262 Address the previous Government, three were pre- have nothing to hide, then they should sented by the present Prime Minister. Dose support my Amendment No, 105 where 1 he disown these Budgets?'" Does he say that have asked for a House Committee to be set they were presented on, the dictates of the up in the matter4. then Prime Minister? Does he say 'I did not have sufficient spine to say that I cannot Similarly, take the case of Mr. Rama- accept it and I presented the Budgets because krishna Hagda about whom. everybody has I was ordered to do so'? or does he own up? mentioned. He has been appointed Deputy Mr. Arif Mohd. Khan can very well come Chairman of the Planning Commission. I and decry but he must also say as to what won't go into the propriety of his, holding part of the past he is willing to own up and two portfolios simultaneously, one being an what part he is not willing to own up. MLA and the other being the vice-president of the Janata Dal because it has always been assumed that the Deputy Chairmanship of But the most important part" of the Address Planning Commission is a Government post is in pragraph 11 where he talks of corruption and you cannot hold any other post even if and says that the law will take its own course. you do not draw any salary. We dp not know what that- means in Bofors. I hope he does not mean delay because when THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- Mr. K. C. Pant in the last Session said in this GESH DESAI): The law will take its own House that law will take its own course, almost course, all the Members of the' opposition had said that this was a prevarication, this meant delay. You SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: • Well, I tell us how you are going to expedite. But let am not going into that, but the fact of the matter us assume that law has to take its own course. is that today we see in the newspaper that the 'In that case, why did they withdraw the Czech term of the Kuldip Singh Commission which has Pistol case? Why was this case withdrawn? is-' sued a notice to Mr. Hegde under section 8(b) has been extended. The case is in an advanced What about Mr. Ajaya Singh's alleged accounts in Sunt Kitts? I do not know whether those are stage where they say that they are likely to reach genuine or not. I have moved an amendment a conclusion prejudicial to him, harmful to-him, that a Parliamentary Committee may be which may go against him and, therefore, he formed which can find out the truth. It could be should please come before the Commis-. sion. It a forgery and if it is a forgery, it is a serious is a direction, come, before the Commission and matter because. people should be protected defend yourself. Under . section 8(b) a notice against such forged accounts and the only way was issued. And when the case is at such an to establish this is to appoint a parlia--mentary advanced stage, you have the man as Deputy committee. In the last Session the then Chairman of the Planning Commission who. Minister of State for Finance had assured this otherwise has got nothing to do with planning, he House that he will tell us what' the future does not know anything about economics, investisations reveal. He said that prima facie it must be correct. Well, I would like to know THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- from this Government because they have put GESH DESAI): He was the Fmance 'fighting corruption' on such a high pedestal, Minister. They say that law will- take its own course. SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: He is, Then why have you withdrawn this case however, expert in the planning of against the Prime Minister's son? Why have commissions. That is what might have been you transferred- officers' who, you suspect, considered, but anyway... may not. be able to say what you want. If they SHRI K. G. THIMME GOWDA (Kar- nataka): I am on a point of order. He has no business to tell like that in the 263 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 264 Address [Shri K. G. Thimme Gowda] advance*! situation where a prima facie House. He cannot question the integrity of a saying that the Government has appointed highly placed man. Moreover, he is not a such a person who has been issued a Member of this House and so he cannot notice under section 8B, This 8B is an defend himself. What makes him to take his advanced situation Whert a prima facie name every now and then. Every' day, once case is established. And in any case, or twice, lie Is taking his' name. | since they are talking so much about (Interruptions). corruption, when a man is facing a com- I mission of Inquiry, at least you can wait. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- You have not only appointed him, but GESH DESAI): I am ruling that there is no you have even extended the Commission point of order. Please sit down. of Inquiry. In fact, I would say, if SHRI R. S. NAIK (Karnataka); I have an Mr. Hegde has any sense of value-based politics which he says he has been prac Important point of order. tising, he himself Should resign and go THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA-GESK till the Commission comes to a conclu DESAI): There cannot be any point of order. sion and exonerates him ...... Yes, I am If you' don't abide by the Chair, we will not advising him. be able to complete the Business. After this there are two Bills to be passed. If you Even, on Bofors question, there have been interrupt-like this, i do not know what you in the last few days, i. e. day before can do I do not know what it will lead to. yesterday, at least 7 or 8 questions, including SHRI ARANGIL SREEDHARAN the unwritten ones. And every answer is so (Kerala) You are allowing it because it suits vague. Why is it so? They had said during your party. the election campaign— and T want them to answer this honestly and the Prime Minister THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- avoided it during Question Hour..... You said GESH DESAI); You go ahead. Please sit that in 15 days you will find out the names. down, SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: No, he did SHRI ARANGIL SREEDHARAN: I can not avoid it. It is not correct. raise a point of order... My point of order is that the Commission has not come to any SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY; You conclusion. explain it when your time comes. The Prime Minister may explain it. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- GESH DESAI): He has never said like SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: In fact, the that. . ■ Chairman ruled that the Question Hour was SHRI ARANGIL SREEDHARAN; Please over. The Prime Minister was in the middle permit me to complete. His expression, his of a sentence but the Chairman did not allow speech here about the Commission of Inquiry him even. to finish that sentence. Now Mr, will influence the commission and what he Swamy is saying that the Prime Minister has stated here In his, speech should not be avoided it. permitted to go on record. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA-j THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- GESH DESAI); Yes, that is the correct position. GESH DESAI): What he is saying is that a notice has been issued to him. There is no SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY; That is point of order. I rule it out. yes, Mr. not. I will tell you what happened. I asked a Subramanian Swamy. question; do you have a new deadline? And SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY;. the Prime Minister started reading out what There seema to be a misunderstanding. I was Mr. Arun Singh had said. I knew what he comtemning the Government for appointion such a person. I was not 265 Motion of thanks [28 DEC, 1989] on the President's 266 Address was, going to read. The previous Gov- ment and so on, has shown weakness. I ernment had already negotiated... began, when the question on Panama was raised, that this Government would not be ' THE VICE-CHAIRMAN,: SHRI JA-GESH able to stand up to the United States, and DESAI): We are going to discuss it indeed we have found that in the Panama tomorrow. case and in a number of other issues. I know it even in the cutting of our, defence SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: expenditure the. United States is putting Therefore, it is not correct to say that the enormous pressure on us. In fact, this build- Prime Minister rebutted what I said. The up that the coffers are empty, is actually a Prime Minister did not answer my question on pretext for cutting the defence expenditure. the dealine... Yes, I will. I am here for that In fact, Sir, if there is anything in great threat purpose. Therefore, indeed, it is not important today is this for which I would appeal to the whether Rs. 64 crores is going to be returned Members of the Janata Dal, many of whom or not. In fact, to my knowledge, this matter have been my comrades with me, colleagues had already been concluded as an agreement with me in struggle but who unfortunately ■ between the previous Government and the made a stupid mistake of accepting the reject Bofors on October 27 of this year itself. Now material from the Congress' (I) and made him this Government can get Rs. 64 crores back as their leaders, that they must revolt at this a part of that agreement. But the question is, time. They must revolt because with this who took this alleged bribe which they have Government every indication is that self- been raising and the whole country wants to reliance is under threat. know? We find that they want to move away from the deadline, Thank you very much.

I have only one more point to make and THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- ' that is this. Mr, Yashwant Sinha talked a lot GESH DESAI); Mr. Swaminathan. Only eight about self-reliance and multinationals. I will minutes as you promised me. conclude what I have to say by reading out from the last Sunday issue of a paper called SHRI G. SWAMINATHAN: Mr. Vice- Sunday Mail. This is the latest issue and this Chairman, Sir, within the small time avail- is what it says; able to me, I. would like to touch upon some of the points which are of general interest on The Prime Minister, Mr. V. P. Singh's the Presidential Address. wife, Mrs, Sita Singh, was recently the talk of the capital when she dared to do The first point I would like to take up is something which Mrs. had not with regard to the general election . which has done. She invited-the wives of the Chief recently concluded. There has been a Executives of, the European-based multi-na- discussion on this regarding poll reforms, and tional companies stationed' in Delhi. Why there is going to be something more also has she gone into such a PR exercise? All for subsequently. But of the only two points in her husband, according to grapevine. my. experience in this election, which are very, important and which I want to express, The European businessmen had been upset one is, in this election whatever may be the by the way they had been neglected in the amount that the Election Commission has previous regime and Mrs. Singh has been stipulated for election to Parliament, the going out of the way to give them amount that has been spent by the individual importance. I do not know whether the story candidates has been phenomenal. It has is true. But it is a fact that the Government, become a normal practice for an M. P- to on all major issues involving self-reliance, spend not less Rs. 15 lakhs to Rs. 20 lakhs for non-align- a parliamentary seat. Sir,, coming from Tamil Nadu, I came to understand that in a particular seat nearly 267 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 268 Address [Shri G. Swaminathan] take up the electoral reforms very quickly. I, Rs, 60 lakhs have been spent by a candidate. may advise that electoral reforms should be Perhaps, more also could have been spent by brought before the Assembly elections in some other Candidas. But this is what has February, March because we are going to come to my very intimate knowledge because I have Assembly elections Of many important was working in an adjacent constituency. It has States in the North. If we are going to. leave been said that this amount, phenomenal amount those elections, most probably elections will has been spent. '" come only later. I would strongly advise on- this particular point to curb the black money and see that honestly politics should be, Hon. Prime Minister is now saying, and played in the country, today morning we have seen in the Press that the new Prime Minister is speaking of curbing The, second point that I may raise re- black money. With this kind of expenditure for garding the electoral reforms is that there are the elections, what people generally think so many candidates who are not interested about very • respected Member, Shri Kulkarnr, really. Uninterested candidates are contesing -politicians has also been told by our this elections. In a particular constituency I found morning today. People have been saying that that there were 65 candidates who were not politicians are corrupt ' and that parties are intentional in seeking election, but for - corrupt simply because, they say, even though various reasons they were contesting. In a somebody is corrupt and somebody is being particular city -in Tamil Nadu, it had been accused in the Government of, being corrupt, countermanded because one particular people generally in know of things say that no individual who was an independent politician can be honest because in a par- candidate had expired. I also wish the liamentary election, with so many seats about Government to take up this question. If there 540 seats, even faking about Rs. 10 lakhs per is an independent and non-serious -candidate seat, you have to spend crores of rupees. So and if he expires in a constituency where also in the Assembly elections you have to there are 60 or 65 candidates and many of spend so many crores, of rupees. Any party in them old, the whole election should not get the Government has to make money so that it counterminded for no fault of other political can finance" its own political candidates. This candidates; These two points I wish to stress is what is being talked of everywhere by as important as far as election is concerned, knowledgeable. people and anybody who is because we, are meeting immediately after reading newspapers. the elections.

In this kind of a situation, Sir, we have to do The second point is on the Sri Lankan issue. something to curb black money in the This issue had been talked about yesterday and elections. We should have funding of elections I read in the newspapers— I was not here by the Government. There should be auditing yesterday—that there was a clash between my of party ac-courts. Party accounts are now hon. friend, Mr. Na-rayanasamy of the completely going free. Nobody is auditing Congress and Mr. Gopalsamy of the DMK.. party accounts. Party accounts have be. come Both are very agile on the Sri Lankan issue and something like, overseas accounts in a Swiss , a clash between the two was very natural. bank. Nobody can go near anybody who (Interruptions) I understand a lot of emotion comes up in the; hierarchy of - a particular was there in the House when the Sri Lankan party and handles funds worth crores of issue was raised. rupees. • This is the situation we are placed in. I wish to tell the Government that if they are ■ I do not want to touch upon the issue now. really serious to curb the black money, the first I know the Prime Minister has 3aid that he thing that they should do is that they should will settle the issue. The main point on which all of us are concerned is that the IPKF should be with drawn as quickly as possible. The Tamil 269 Motion, of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on thi President's 270 Address Nadu Chief Minister is now talking with the, land up in Tamil Nadu, - in vedaranyam and in LTTE. I think he should talk with other people Rameshwaram as they like. They are foreign as promised by the. Prime Minister. In this, nationals. Maybe they are Tamils and pur own connection I would say that the previous Prime people, but there should be some propriety as to Minister used to call all the parties of Tamil who can come and go; I personally feel that the Nadu and have a meeting with all the party. Government of India does not have any leaders and apprise them on what is going on in information about the number of the people Sri Lanka, I am sorry to say that the present who come and go from Sri Lanka. - The other Prime Minister has not found time. Many day it had been said that the that of an important important things are going on in India amidst party leader of a faction of the) Tamil militants the Officers and I also hear the hon. Chief from Sri Lanka who came over here was seized Minister is talking to the LTTE and he is going and even he went away. This is what is fo talk to Others. Members -of Parliament and happening. In Muthupot which is near my place leaders belonging to the parties from Tamil- five of the custom officers had been taken away Nadu have not been invited by the Prime by the militants of Sri Lanka. Their Minister. -I hope he will invite us and apprise whereabouts were not known for a period of us on what is actually ■ going on so that it may about seven days, They were taken from the not be an affair which is conducted only by th? Indian ■ coil. It was said that they were taken to Prime Minister's Secretariat or the Officers of Sri Lanka. They were imprisoned in Sri Lanka the particular Ministry or by the Chief Minister and thereafter they have been brougltt after the of Tamil Nadu but other persons also will be intervention of the Chief Minister of Tamil informed about ' these things. Nadu and most probably by the hon. Prime Minister's Secretariat, If this is the thing that is I would like to touch upon one more thing going to happen and if the Officers of the about the Sri Lankan issue, W3 are having a Government are going to be hauled up and lot of refugees from Sri Lanka in Tamil Nadu. taken over as prisoners by the Sri Lankan Not only* that we are having many people of nationals and are going to be taken to Sri Lanka the Sri Lankan origin. It is creating a tot of and if the Government is not able to do any- problem for the Tamil community in the thing in the matter because of the problems that Tamil Nadu area, I think, my friend, Mr. have, been created in Tamil Nadu, I wish to Gopalsamy, will not dispute with me when \ Inform you' that the problem is not only say that two important things aire happening between the nation, and the action, it is in Tamil Nadu because of the conflict and becoming a problem for the people -of Tamil turbulent situation that is going on in Sri Nadu also. The situation is very nebelous and Lanka. You might have read in the papers, and that there is no control over the situation. And I am personally aware, that lot of parcotic nothing is being done and more than that drugs are being traded in Tamil Nadu, It is not nobody knows what action* you are going to traded between the College students and take. What kind of policy or step are you going elsewhere to important people, alone, the to take? It cannot go on indefinitely Sir.. trafficking is going on. even . in poor and slum areas.. In slum areas in the Madras City, The third point I may like to raise I understand there are hundreds and hundreds is.., of people who are now getting into the drug problem because trafficking is being done by ' the people of the Sri Lankan origin and who have come' over here' and settled in Tamil THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- Nadu. They come and go-- as easily as GESH DESA1): That is the last point. possible. It is> very unfortu-nats. that people from Sri Lanka can SHRI G. SWAMINATHAN: Yes, Sir, the last point. A lot of things were said here about the Planning Commission, 1 271 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's . 272 Address [Shri G. Swaminathan]. Sir, on 27. 12. 1989 the Hindu has pub- lished a very interesting article from which I do not want to talk more about the Planning may like to quote one or two things. He has Commission what has already been said been saying about a particular person. His here. I do not want to talk about Mr. name is Mr. Abel Aganbegyan, I am not able Ramakrishna Hegde or about the members of to pronounce it properly because it is a Russian name. He is one of Mr. Gorbachev's the Planning Commission, two top economic advisers. He has published two years ago a book called "The Challenge: That has been talked about by two hon. Economics of Perest-roika". Now he has Members in this House. published a book called "Moving the Mountain", He says; "They do not see the Sir, even since Mr, Hegde came and took fruits of perestroika because there are still over as Deputy Chairman of the Planning queues for housing, shortages of food and Commission, he has been saying that he will consumes goods, the service sector is undeve- see to it that the Planning Commission is loped, and so of " Even objective economists, accorded a status under the Constitution. He supporters of perestroika agree that "when says "it will have its own status under the we look at housing, infant mortality rates the Constitution". Now it is not a Constitutional development of the service industry, the body and he will make it into a body that will supply of consumer durables and a number of have Constitutional • status. He will see to it other indices, we have to admit that we trail that the Chief Ministers of other States are behind, somewhere among the last of the top made members of the Planning Commission. 50 countries. " What actually he Intends to do, Sir, is that he wanted to elevate the Planning Commission Sir, the most important point he says to a higher level or an important level or a is "in tackling- these mountainous prob Constitutional level. It was talked over even lems Perestroika's planners knew that 30 years ago, I do not want to dispute the they had to demolish central control of matter. But my only grouse is now this matter the economy. " I want this to be under of Planning Commission or planning from lined. "Again and again throughout the the top is being insisted at a time when other book, he condemns the system of central countries from whom we have taken this planning where every decision is made lesson are thinking the other way about I by bureaucrats "in secret and among want the Government to seriously think over themselves. -This system, he says, means the matter because it has bean said that that customers and their needs or wishes during the last, 40 years there is no de not matter, prices do not matter, costs improvement in this country, that poverty has and profits are unimportant. All that not been eradicated, that unemployment has matters is meeting quantity production been going up instead of coming down. Now, targets. " •, Sir, it is being said that if we have proper planning, if we have centralised planning and if the Planning Commission is given ' Finally, he says, Sir "It has to be said Constitutional status, then, most probably - that the process has turned out to be all the ills of the country, will disappear. This slower, more difficult and more painful is the position which Mr. Hegde has taken than anticipated. It has been like and I do not know whether the policy of moving a mountain with » teaspoons, " making the Planning Commission a That is what he is talking about central Constitutional planning body Is important. planning. * • They want to have a csmt-ralised planning. At least planning is being given an important Coming to the various other countries, Sir, status in this country, ' mostly in China, USSR and other communist countries about whom we are going to discuss, I think, shortly about

273 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 274 Address Romania where we had a Marxist dictator the Cauvery delta. We had requested the then who had killed nearly 70, 000 people and Government and today there has beep a dried to escape with $ 1 billion and who had question tor which an answer has been, that it all the family members holding important is under consideration. It has been under portfolios, he himself had been the Prime consideration during the last two-three years Minister, the President, the party General and the present Government also says, it is secretary, his. wife as the deputy leader of the under consideration. Sir the Chief Minister of party, his son-genera) commander-in-chief of Karnataka is saying that he is not for a the army and all that, sir, kindly give me two tribunal and he wants discussion to go and our minutes. hon. Chief Minis, ter of Tamil Nadu is saying, there fa nothing wrong in 'having a tribunal THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- and discus-sion going on. I would strongly GESH DESAI) • No no.. Please conclude. recommend to the present Government that they should-take up this matter immediately SHRI G. SWAMINATHAN Then, I will and expeditiously and should have a tribunal finish in one minute. What is happening in for Cauvery water so that the aspirations of other countries like, Poland where the inflation Tamil people especially the people; of Cau_ rate is about 100 per cent; in Yugoslavia, the very delta are fulfilled, inflation rate is 118 per cent, in China, the inflation rate is going. up to 25 per cent where the employment 5. 2 million and 20 peoplt [The Vice-Chairman (Shri Mirze Irshad- are unemployment due to central baig) in the Chair], planning. Ultimately, 1 may say yesterday there was_ argument as to what is socialism. I would. SHRI p. N. SUKUL (Uttar Pradesh): Vice- likel to inform, according to dictionary, so- Chairman, Sir, this year's Presidential cialist organisations advocate community as a Address has been the shortest Address during whole should own and control the means of the last ten years which I have seen. It is the production. In Russia, Sir.. shortest Address and in just 20 minutes it was read out by the President and it was so THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI JA- short because the new Government did not GESH DESAI): Don't go into details. There have to tell us much. It has only tried to india is no time. You have already taken 14 the previous Government of Rajiv Gandhi. minutes. But specifically it has not mentioned anything—what it is going to do in future, SHRI G. SWAMINATHAN: Means of next year or year after. production are being changed. Property rights are being given to individuals. Why I am going Well, we can appreciate the problem of the to the other countries? Now, I very strongly National Front and their allies because! • each advocate, what we have; been following all party had issued a separate manifesto and I do these years have been rejected by other not know which manifesto this Government is countries and it would be wise for the new going to implement. The CPT(M) who are Government if they are really trying to plan supporting: the National Front Government had otherwise, not to. centralise, not to give the a different manifesto, foe CPI had a different Planning-Commission a higher status and to manifesto, the Telugu Desam had a different make it a central way in which to plan the manifesto, Assam Ganasangram Parishad had a whore country which is coming to naught. Re- different manifesto and like that and it is garding the Cauvery problem, our Chief because of the multiplicity of the manifestos of Minister of Tamil Nadu, Mr. Karunanidhi and the ruling party I should say that they are not in our previous Chief Minister, Mr. M. G. position to specify what actually they propose to Ramaehandran have been advocating for a do. They lhe|m-selves do not know what to do. tribunal for Cauvery. This has been ■agitating If they the minds of the Tamilian especially people like us who are coming from -

275 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 276 Address [Shri P. N. Sukul] It means you were not yourselves sure who took the commission and still you created a do one thing, that may alienage the Communist.. situation, ugly situation. It was a lie. If they do another thing; that may alienage the (Interruption)* BJP. So we cauvery well appreciate this situation. The President's Address generally SHRI K. G. " MAHESHWRAPPA- (Kar- enumerates the achieve-. ments of the last year nataka): If you know who took the com_ .. and also gives an indication as to what the mission, you please reveal it. 'Government propose to do in the coming year. In this President's Address, there is no enum SHRI P. N. SUKUL: No. You do not ra-. tion of any achievement of the last year and know who took the commission. as I said, even about the future, it has not given any specific indication as to what this SHRI K. G. MAHESHWARAPPA: You Government is going to -do and that way it has should be knowing. (Interruptions). not been a very good Address. It has nothing to THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI: convey to the people of the nation. Mr. Dinesh MIRZA IRSHAD FA1G): We are dis- Gos-wami, our present Law 'Minister, was sitt- cussing Bofors. Don't worry. ing here. Last ytar, while speaking on the I .. -'. ■• President's Address in Lok Sabha, he said,, "it is SHRI P. N. SUKUL: If the Government a fictional 3. 00 p. m work which the nation is really wanted that the law should take its own not going to take seriously. I am reminded, of course, why the second chargesheet was his words beoause I too find this Address withdrawn Irom the court in the case of the fictional work which the nation is not going to indira Gandhi assassination case? The law' take seriously. I am even the, parties which are should" have taken its own course and those supporting the Government are not going to take who were to be found guilty should have. it seriously. This Government came into power been punished. on the one hand. because; some Congressmen „ SARDAR JAGJIT SlNGH AURORA played treachery with their own party, with their (Punjab): You withdrew it. own leader, and on the other, becaus; so many * parties played treachery with their own principles, with their own ideologies. And - SHRI P. N, SUKUL: We withdrew it after ideologies which are polls apart are today to be the election* results were out. found there behind the. Government, both the SARDAR JAGJIT SlNGH AURORA: rightist ideologies and the leftist ideologies. Your Government withdrew it. Such a Government is, of course, not going to last very long and I am confident that its fall is SHRI P. N. SUKUL: After the election imminent. (Interruption). If you can compromise results were out, with your own principles, your own ideologies, SARDAR JAGJIT SINGH AURORA: You then, of course, -you can continue. But, for how should have left it to 'this Gov-. ernment. long can you play that hoax? In the very constituency from where V. P. Singh has been SHRI P. N. SUKUL: And 'again, as Mr. returned to Parliament their party has written Swamy was mentioning, the Government is slogans on the walls of the city and villages considering whether the -Kuldeep Singh calling Rajiv- Gandhi 'chor hai: Bofors ■ka yer Commission should be withdrawn against' hai voh hai. They openly said it. And after Hegde or not. Yesterday, there was a news corning into power, they say that they will look item in a newspaper that the Government is into'it and law will take its own course and those seriously considering... (Interruptions)-It who are ultimately found guilty will be punished has been extended. But yesterday it was in the newspaper that the Gov-ernment had referred it to the Attorney-General for, his views. And like this, law does not take, Its own course.

277 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1939] on the. President's 27 8 Address ness Allowance or bonus to all. Nothing. As I. was saying, there have been many many achievements of the Rajiv Gandhi Government and this Governs In para 4 of the Address it has been said • ment did not have anything to mention, in the that the "Government will work to restore the President's Address. During, the last four dignity of the nation and of the individual. years, ' the industrial growtn exceeded eight " As if the per cent per annum and in the last six months . dignity of the nation has eroded and they are of this year, it has been 9. 5 per -cent and yet, going to restore it! How can a Government the new Government has not mentioned it, led by a man, who associated himself with has 'not admitted it. In one year, in 1987-88, Mr. Hersch-man,. an old CIA agent, how can exports were'up by 26. 4 per cent which was stooge of America, restore the dignity of this not. mentioned. ' Rajiv Gandhi's Government country. During the last few-days, there has launched a frontal attack, assault, or poverty been. a talk of programmes and so many in so many ways and those povery alleviation things. So, a programmes were not mentioned in the . minority Government, as it calls itself, Presidential Address. _ The IRDP alone supported by a majority, cannot restore the reached 25 million people half of Whom are diginity of the country or of the individual. Scheduled castes and Scheduled Tribes. It has You see, the* Congress (I) is the single not been mentioned. Then there is the largest part in the Lok Sabha; arid here in the million-wells Rajya Sabha it has a two-thirds majority. . scheme launched by that Government. The NREP target was completed under the Indira SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; Yet you lost the Awas Yojana. All these achievements have Panchayatl R-aj Bill here! not been men-tioned. And, Sir, last year, that is, in 1988-89, the GDP growth was nine per SHRI P. N. SUKUL: Because you people cent and gome experts said that it was 11 per played treachery on the people of the cent in real terms. But that has not been country. Mr.; Rajiv Gandhi wanted sincerely mentioned here. But a very chaotic picture and earnestly that the powers should has been painted that the coffers are empty percolate to the people at the grass-roots and it is like this and that. So, if the Gov- level. ernment is going to run on lies and nothing but lies, this nation is going to be SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: No. He wanted disenchanted very soon with this to bypass the States. Government. I expect that some of the parties who are there with them like the Communist SHRI P. N. SUKUL: Therefore, in Parties, at. least they will give proper the Rajya Sabha, because of your directions to this Government to take up misdoings, the. Bill could not be certain programmes for. the general good of passed. the people of this country. I do not find in the President's Address what the Government is Then, in para 9, the Address says: going to do for the benefit of the working, people the working class, and what benefits "The Government seeks the sup- port of they are going to give them. There is no the people in its unrelenting efforts to mention of that. There is no mention promote national unity and integrity, " ■ of, a national wage policy. There is no mention as to whether they are Again, they are talking of national unity and . going to formulata a national wage policy or a integrity. Nowhere has it been said as to how national formula on Dear- the Government is going to deal with terrorists, secessionists, and what they are going to do about the Punjab problem. But they are going to work for national 279 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 280 Address [Shri P. N. Sukul] unity ano integrity.. (Time bell rings).., ' Once again I ask them, Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, how a *can restore the dignity... (Interruptions)...

SHRI ARANGIL SREEDHARAN: Mr. Vice- Chairman, Sir, he is making a very serious statement. He says about the Prime Minister of the country that he is a *. '. ". (Interruptions)... This should not go on record. A Member is saying this about the Prime Minister of the country and it is a disgrace ta this country and it should not be allowed to go on record. A Member of Parliament is saying that the Prime Minister is a *. (Interruptions)... SHRIMATI JAYANTHHI NATARAJAN: It is* not unparliamentary. What is wrong- SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: Sir, it should not go in what he said? on record... (Inteirup- (Interruptions) tions) THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA SHRI P. N. SUKUL: Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, IRSHADBAIG): I am on my legs. Please sit in para 12, they have mentioned about the right to down. information... (Interruptions)...

SHRI ARANGIL SREEDHARAN: Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, he is calling the Prime Minister of India as a** It should not go "on record. Kindly give your ruling... (Interruptions)-..

DR.. (SHRIMATI) SAROJINI MAHISHI -(Karnataka): Sir, this should not go on record. To call any body as the * is wrong.

This should not go on record... (Interruptions)... It is wrong to call any one** This should not go on record. (Interruptions).

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA ' IRSHADBAIG): Please sit down.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: This should not go on record. (Interruptions)

SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: It is unfair. (Interruptions)

*Not recorded.

281 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 282 Address SHRI P. N. SUKUL: One has to call a able. On top of it, the last Governor has spade a spade. Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I will deliberately left it in shambles. Apart from take one minute more. the humiliating defeat that the Congress has suffered at the hands of Punjabis, they have given a positive verdict In favour of Akali They talk ot right of information. And Dal (Mann Group). Akali Dal (Mann Group) although our Members wanted the details of has won six seats by landslide victories "and the abduction of Miss Rubiya but these details the three candidates it supported have also have not been furnished. What right of infor- won landslide victories. This verdict of the mation can they ensure? They are talking of voters should not be misread or mis- right of work. Can they give unemployment construed. It is being said that it was because allowance to everyone in the country who is of the fear complex that people were made unemployed? It is all fraud that they want to to vote for the Mann Group. I would like to play on the nation. They cannot fulfil any of read a paragraph from the Tribune, which is their promises. That is why I say. Sir, that this published from Chandigarh, dated President's Address- is nothing but fictional November 29. The paper says: and the nation is not going to take it seriously.

SARDAR JAGJIT SINGH AURORA: Mr. "It will be wrong and even dangerous to Vice-Chairman, Sir. I welcome the President's conclude that fear was the key to the election Address, and fully support it. We fervently result; The high percentage of polling and the wished for a change and are so happy that it orderliness visible on polling day testify to the has come* ahout- The new Government's absence of fear. After all, a high voter turnout actions and intentions augur well for the cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, go country and its people. A Government which with an atmosphere of panic. Incidentally, the could not give justice to the victims of UAD (Mann) can-, didates and also those November 1984 killings, which had little supported " by it campaigned on the slogan of respect for human rights and which lacked Hindu-Sikh unity. There can be no other basic political morality had to go and we are reason which can explain the over three-lakh very happy to see that we are rid of it and over four-lakh margins of victory for Mrs. Bimal Khalsa and Mr. S. S. Mann. " Owing to the limited time allotted to me, I shall concentrate on Paragraph 6 of the I would, therefore, like to say that. this is Address and deal with the Punjab situation at the verdict of the voters and it should not be some length. For Punjabis it has been a misread and misconstrued. Let us be realists deliverance from the oppressive, dictatorial, and accept that this is a sympathy vote and a unjust and violent rule, of nearly three years! vote for the younger people of shoulder No wonder that in spite of use of every responsibility and leadership. This also shows strategem trick' and manipulation, the that the people were rather disappointed with Congress suffered a humilia-. ting defeat in the the older leaders. State.

The Punjab problem has defied solution so The elected members of the, - Mann far because the previous Government ' was Group have sworn their fidelity to the never sincere or serious about it. Moreover, it integrity of the country. Why should we tried to solve it by brute force and sheer doubt them? I plead humbly that faith terror. This has made it more intract- begets faith- Let us build on people's verdict and do not hesitate.

283 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 284 ' Address [Sardar Jagjit Singh Aurora] Three years of in fake encounters. In these, you can also add president's rule has only complicated and some segments" of the police who have been worsened the -situation Prevarication will given care bdanche and have indulged in all create doubts in their minds that you do not types of netarious activities to enrich them- trust them or you are not sincere about solving, selves or to satisfy their sadistic -instincts. or should I say salvaing the situation. I think if (Time bell rings) I will take just two more we. are to solve this problem, we have to accept minutes. that Mann Group should be encouraged and No emerging leadership can eradicate this should be fully trusted. As you know, that violence in a short time without being in Mann group has 'stated that they are not for power. "My request, therefore, is, do not stall Khalistan. And, therefore, I feel that it is the the democratic processes. Hold the election to only group that can bring the young people into the State Assembly as - soon as you can, if the mainstream. Support this group as voters not simultaneously, then in a fortnight or so have supported it. Do not negate their vote. •. later to ensure adequte security arrangements. Be courageous and give the youngsters a I do appreciate and understand the chance to come into the mainstream. apprehension of the people about the continuing THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA killings and other threats. For this, we need to IRSHADBAIG)': Please conclude now. analyse the pre-sen' structure of violance and sur- charged emotional atmosphere. There • are four SARDAR JAGJIT SINGH AURORA: I types of terrorists involved in Punjab today. The am finishing. first group is those whom you can call Khalistanis, who have been embittered to such an And to create conditions conducive to extent that they believe that the Sikhs can only holding of elections, accept some of the survive and flourish if Punjab ceases to be a part, demands which have been voiced by of India. These are very few and many can be ' practically all sections of the Sikh leadership, persuaded to change once the conditions change -that is moderates and extremists. They are: in the State. Then ther, e is the second group, and together with the Fifty-Ninth Amendment, they are professional smugglers, dacoit, gun- withdraw all black laws; dismantle the state runners and drug traffickers, fishing in troubled oppressive apparatus at least by transferring waters, arid there are also people who are being Some of the officials who have been manipulated from across the border. These have, associated with the last Governor; gradually, to be dealt with severely under the law of the by stages, withdraw CRP and BSF back to the land. There is a third group of unemployed youth. barracks. After election, you may be able to specially coming from weaker sections of the thin them out of Punjab by stages. (Time Bell community from the villages who find that there rings) Eventually, a general, amnesty should is no job but they can make a quick buck by anti- be declared. But this may. be done by the social and illegal activities. These can also be re- State Government when it is elected and formed. Lastly, and possibly ihe most dangerous group today is the specially raised vigilante formed after the elections. This should not. squads of the police for killing terrorists, who prevent the release of such innocent people more often than not indulge in extortion of - who have heen incarcerated at the whims and money and killing of innocent people fancies of some police authorities.

Before concluding, I would like to strike a note of warning and this is very important. Do not ignore the threat of active intervention by Pakistan in the Jammu and Kashmir

285 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 286 Address affair. The Pakistan Army is smarting under minor and which should not really detract the decisive defeat it suffered in Bangladesh from the main course of action. at the hands of the Indian Army in 1971. The (Interruptions)... political situation in Jammu and Kashmir is SHRI CHATURANAN MISHRA: fraught with greater danger than that in When all minor weapons come in, they Punjab. You have an opportunity now to become major weapons. (Interrup improve the situation in Punjab and do not tions) hesitate. A firm base in Punjab—I would like. to underline this—images our strategic position visa-vis Pakistan's threat in Jammu 5 and Kashmir and in Punjab unassailable. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG): I would like to infrom hon. I end by wholeheartedly supporting the Members that earlier, Mr. Sukul used the Motion of Thanks on the President's Address word. *. I find that this word is and wish the National Front Government the unparliamentary. i It will not go on record. best of luck in its endeavours to infuse a new Shri Ramesh-war Thakur. spirit in the country, of genuine reconciliation and mutual faith and trust. Thank you. SHRI RAMESHWAR THAKUR (Bihar): Mr. Vice-Chairman,. Sir, the Address by the SARDAR JAGJIT SlNGH AURORA: I hon. President of India to both Houses of was talking about the general situation. J was Parliment on the 20th December, 1989, deals not talking about the individuals who are with economic aspects in paragaph 21. laying down preconditions which", to my THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG): Mr. Thakur, please conclude within ten minutes. SHRI RAMESHWAR THAKUR: • But I regret to say that the various aspect have been touched upon in general terms and is full of platitudes. The earlier Addresses used to contain more specifically the Government's policies and programmes and the details thereof. But this' Address lacks clarity, direction and there is no specific plan of action in regard to the Government's policies. I have heard with rapt attention my friend, Mr. Yashwant Sinha, and other Members from the treasury benches. They have been good enough to mention that nothing has been achieved during the'last 42 years, that the econ- omy is in -shambles, that long-term damage has been done and so on. In this • connection, I would like to say that we should make an objective asse- ' ssment of the achievements made and should not be biased on that score. Through Plan after Plan, and more particularly during the last five years, there has been a tremendous progress allround so far as the economic front • is concerned. The economic growth has been of the order of 5 per cent in the Sixth and Seventh Five-year Plans mind, are very 287 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 288 Address [Shri Rameshwar Thakur] SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Is it obligatory on the Part of the Minister to take down notes? against 1 to 2 per cent between 1901 and 1947. There is a record agricultural production of 172 SHRI JAGESH DEASI: Do not defend million tonnes. The • industrial growth is 8. 6 like this. per cent. In the case exports, it is more than 50 SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: you cannot dictate per cent in the last two years, cumulative. to the Minister to take down notes, you can Similarly, In other areas we have achieved demand the Minister's presence, hut not massive success. We should take into taking down notes by him. consideration the growth rate right from the First Plan. The growth rate envisaged in the SHRI RAMESHWAR THAKUR: The First Plan was 3. 6 per cent, in the Second Plan percentage for general, economic services 4. 0 per cent, in the Third Plan 2. 2 per cent, in would be 160, for social services 112, for the Fourth Plan 3. 4 per cent, in the. Fitfh Plan General services 261. The and Sixth Plan 5. 2 per cent and in the Seventh . remarkable thing to note is that in place of a plan we expected the growth rate of 5. 5 per . total outlay of Rs. 95, 534 crores, we are going cent. to spend Rs. 1, 30, 379 crores which will be 136 per cent. This is the achievement we have In the various sectors we find there has been a got and then to say that there has been no tremendous achievement . during the Seventh achievement- is very very unfortunate. Plan. The Plan outlay for agriculture was Rs. Secondly, it Has also been said. that nothing 4007 crores. It has reached to actual Rs. 5049 has been achieved from crores ■ and percentage wise it is 126 per cent. . the First plan to the Seventh plan. 1 will give Similarly, the percentage for rural development bare minimum data for the information of the would be 166, for irrigation 107, for energy 132 House. This Is the increase from First plan to for industry 137, for transport 143, for the Seventh plan. Food production increased coummuni-cations 184 and for environment 128 by 3. 5 times, coal by 5-5 times, import by per cent. 11. 0 times, cement by 14 times, export by 33 times, import, by 43 times, electricity by 42 times, fertiliser consumption since 1955—56 by 141 times, crude oil production by 1464 times. This is the increase from First plan to the Seventh plan. And in spite of that if our Members say that nothing has been done, nothing has been done, nothing has been achieved, been achieved, it is the most unfort- unate and unrealistic statement. Such statement should not be made by hon. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Mr. Maran is here. respectable colleagues of mine. SHRI JAGESH DESAI: You are wrong. Then I would like to mention that this is See whether notes are being taken. the achievement not only of the plan, not only of the Government but of the millions and THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA millions of our farmers, artisans, -workers, IRSHADBAIG): Mr. Maran is here and he is scientists, engineers professionals and others listening to all your speeches. who have contributed to the growth. It is not a national approach when you undermine the SHRI JEGESH DESAI: But he ' not taking efforts of those people -who have contributed notes. to the development of the nation.

289 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] OK the President's 290 Address In this connection, I would like to mention Since the time is short, I would only like to that not only this growth has been there, but seek some clarifications from the hon. revenue has also increased. The Total revenue Minister. Many of these paragraphs are very of the centre and the State Government during short and nothing has been clarified. So the the last five years is given below. In 1985— first clarification I would like to have is 86, 43, 267; 1936—87 49, 540; in 1987—88, whether the Government believes in planned it went up to 56, 976; in 1988-89. 65, 443 and economy, and if so, whether the Eighth Plan in 1989—90 it is expected to be 76, 041. will commence on schedule, i. e. on 1st April, There has been such a massive Increase in the 1990 and there will be no delay or a rolling revenue income. How can it be ignored to say plan. that nothing has been achieved? Two, whether the growth rate envisaged for the Eight plan, i. e. a minimum of 6% of the Similarly, in other areas, we have achieved plan outlay of over Rs. 8 lakh crores would be success and development. Even on deficit mainained and will no be slashed down. financing, I would like to say briefly that it has been mentioned that Rs. 14, 000 crores Three, whether the Government believes in was expected to be our deficit, but the deficit a mixed economy. is likely to be, according to the latest report of the Reserve Bank of India, Rs. 33. 110 crores. Four, whether apart from small and cottage But we must take into consideration the total industries, the Government will give full expenditure. The total expenditure in the plan consideration and support to the medium and is of the order of Rs. 3, 58, 080 crores, in large industries, and which the deficit will be Rs. 33, 110 crores, which means only 9. 2%. Now 9. 2% by any Five, whether the Government will international economic or expert standards is recognise, protect and enhance the co- a manageable figure. Therefore, the deficit mmanding position of the public sector and which is said to be very high, is not a fair shall not weaken that position in any manner. proposition. Six, whether the investment in the public Similary, in other areas also, our sector undertakings in the coming years will achievement has been very very laudable. be maintained in the Eighth plan and will not From what records are they saying that be less than that reached in the Seventh plan. nothing has been achieved. If we see the latest Seven, whether the Government will Reserve Bank of India report (1988—89) or continue to implement, without or with the mid— term plan Appraisal of the planning modifications, the plans and schemes for commission, or other reports of the financial poverty removal and employment generation institutions like IDBI, or of the Asian like the 20-point programme, Jawahar Rozgar Development Bank or World Bank or an Yojana and other existing schemes and will independent body like the Institute for provide adequate funds for these during the Economic Growth, we will find that the coming years. achievement has been there. 'Eight, whether the on-going schemes and , Therefore. I would urge my friends opposite projects of the Central Government and those that they, should not undermine the initiated by the State Governments would achievements. There is scope for further continue to be included in the Eighth plan. improvement, no doubt, and we should try to ■ achieve more during the Eighth plan or which Nine, what steps the Government proposes we should make all efforts. 727 RS-10, to take to effectively bring the. people below the poverty line to

291 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 292 Address [Shri Rameshwar Thakur] PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA (Andhra arpuld 5% during the Eighth plan and Pradesh): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir... Ninith plan, which has been brought down irom 51 in 1978-79 to below 31% THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI during 1989 and what specific steps is the MIRZA IRSHADBAIG): Please try to Government planning to take in relation conclude your speech within five to debt relief on loans below Rs. 10, 000? minutes. I would like to know whether the Government's intention is to write off the PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I shall try said debts in full and that the banks and to be as brief as possible. other financial institutions would be reimbursed for the advances made by In the first instance I would like to them as part of their normal lending refer to the Presidential Address in four business so that they do not become sick parts". The first is with regard to the or red, whether in the process of commitment of the new Government. decentralisation and providing an The second Th with regard to the important role to the cottage, village and political, economic and social aspects small and consumer durable industries, about the programme of action that has to the cottage and village industries founded be initiated by the new Government by the father of the Nation, Mahatma which has come into Gandhi, would continue to (receive the place of pride and that substantial funds existence. would be provided for the same. In this connection, Sir, the President Lastly, I want to know whether in the has paid tributes to the maturity of the process of giving priority and a Indian electorate because they stood for dominating role to the cottage and small- change. Sir, in this connection, I would scale industries, the role of science and like to draw the attention of the entire technology, latest technology in industry House including the Opposition parties will not be diluted. that the National Front as a party was committed to it even in its manifesto—it Thank you very much. was the first to issue the manifesto—and the wordings were such that what has subsequently come about is only THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI reinforcing what has been stated in the MIRZA IRSHADBAIG): Prof. Laksh- manifesto. The manifesto has stated: manna. "Burdened by the price rise, hurt by SHRI M. M. JACOB (Kerala): I think violence, fractured by communalism there are lot of people from this side. I am and ashamed by corruption at the top, not objecting to Prof. Lakshmanna the nation longs for relief. At last The speaking now. He is a very good friend of hour of change has struck. " mine. I am pointing out the convention. Only after finishing the first round of Sir, the hour of change did strike. speakers, axe the second round of Therefore, today we have got the speakers called to speak. Now I find that Government which is a new Government you have gone to the second-round spea- and which is standing for change. kers of the Telugu Desam. You may call some more speakers from here, and then you can give Prof. Lakshmanna a chance Sir, having stated this, I would like to to speak Since you have called him now, I go to the second aspect. What did the have no objection, I cannot object to his President say? The President said speaking. 293 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 294 Address very clearly, and that has to be noted Serious strains in an already inadequate carefully -. public distribution system as a result of the inability of the Government to procure ■'In this Address I am confining myself adequate stocks and, finally, a sharp increase to the broad issues that the Government in unemployment. " This is the verdict given propose to tackle. " by 30 to 40 economists who assembled in the month of August to review the economic Then he goes on to state what are those situation. problems. Therefore, Sir, this was an Address for the Government which is starting and for SHRI ANAND SHARMA; Which paper the year, perhaps, 1990-91—-we have to treat are you reading? It that way—or for the years to come, the next five years. If that is the case, the Presidential PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I am reading Address does mention what the immediate The People's Front. tasks are that are before the Government and AN HON MEMBER: Not the National before the people to be tackled. In that Front?. process, if they only confine to that, I see no reason why the Opposition here should be so PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I don't worried about something not having been know. mentioned. SHRI ANAND SHARMA: Who are the Sir, before I com© to the political and economists? Whose paper is this? This is very social aspects where the healing touch has to important. When the contents of what he is be given, I will come to the economic aspects reading are going on record let the House first. know who are the economists and to which political party this paper belongs. It is a Sir, Shri Chavan is a very elderly person, a propaganda paper. mature person, person with great administrative and political experience, and he PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I don't mind had been the Finance Minister. If somebody reading out the names provided the Vice- says that the coffers are empty, he took it lite- Chairman does not count this time against rally, He started asking, "Can the coffers be mine. I am prepared to read out. Prof. H. K. empty?" Who says? The whole thing has to be Paranjpe, K. S. Krishnaswamy, Balwant taken euphemistically. Sir, I would only like Reddy, , Deepak Nair, Pushpa to point out that about 30 economists met in Patnaik, B. S. Barua, Atul Sharma, Nirmal the month of August. They are not necessarily Chandra, Krishna Bhardwaj. Ashim Das economists of the National Front. There may Gupta... be a few among those who are now supporting THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA the National Front. They said the Indian IRSHADBAIG): Prof. he is asking the name economy is facing a serious crisis. "The of that paper. manifestations are the burgeoning external debt estimated at more than one lakh crores of PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I said it is rupees. The fiscal crisis reflected in the People's Front. mounting excess of the Government expenditure over it's income financed by THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA deficit financing and internal borrowing, a IRSHADBAIG); That is all right. phenomenal growth in. consumption that PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I am not aggravates the social divide and leaves labour worried to which party it belongs. I am here and equipment unutilised in many sectors. A to make a statement given by thirty odd great return; to,, a. rapid rate's of price increase, economist of the country whose names have the been illustrious in the field of economics. Nothing more.

295 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 296 A d dress SHRI ANAND SHARMA; Will he also THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA explain the people's verdict against his IRSHADAIG): We have to look to the time supremo, Mr. Rama Rao? also.

PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: If it had been PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: The third Andhra Pradesh Assembly and if I was a point to which I would like to draw the member there, I would have been dutybound attention of the former Finance Minister and to explain. In the Parliament I am talking... respected Chavanji is this. The balance of THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA payments position for the first six months is at IRSHADBAIG): Don't bother about that, Rs. 5, 400 crores whereas for the correspon- your time is being taken up. Already it is ding period during the previous year it was seven minutes now. Rs. 6, 800 crores. That means there has been a fall Rs. 1, 400 crores. If this is not called of PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I can empty coffers, euphemistically speaking, what understand your heart burn, but that ■will not else is it? solve the problem. Sir, the same report has also shown our The second thing is about the Economic foreign exchange balances falling down to as Advisory Council. Again you will ask who much as Rs. 5, 505 crores. If this is not they are? You know the names. I would quote moving towards empty coffers, then, what only two pertinent things. "Yet the pattern of else it is? growth, methods of financiing employed both internal as well as external have been such Finally, Sir, I will touch upon only two that at the end of the decade it would appear important points. that this strategy of growth pursued especially over the last five years needs some crucial modifications, if growth with self-reliance THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA and equity remains the central focus of the IRSHADBAIG): Now you conclude. Government policies. " PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I am giving suggestions for our own Government. For Again I would quote the Economic Advisory Council. instance,...

"The Economic Advisoy Council had THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA drawn attention to many of these problem IRSHADBAIG): I am giving only one areas in its earlier reports. The report on the minute. current economic situation highlights the structural imbalances that underline current SHRI M. M. JACOB: He has already problems and tries to indicate priority areas exceeded the time-limit from the Government for action for removing imbalances?' side. The Minister for Parliamentary Affairs has assured that they will not take away our Therefore, I would only cite one more allotted time. What is this? example. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: I want to IRSHADBAIG): Please conclude within one impress upon the Government that we have minute. not touched upon two important areas. You will agree with me. The population problem PROF. C. LAKSHMANNA: If you. say, I has been creating a lot of tension in the coun- will sit down with this. I think I have not done try. It has been offsetting the development justice to the topic that I have taken up. '" which, we are trying to achieve. Therefore, I would urge upon the Government to kindly look into this

297 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989] on the Preiedent's 298 Address population growth problem, and come SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: In one way you are forward with'measures to contain it. correct. See the dismal performance of Rajiv (Time bell rings) I am concluding, Sir. We Gandhi in" ihe last five years we registered an have comitted ourselves to impressive growth. You can take and field and universal and primary education. I hope the verify.. The National Front Government has to new Government will move in this direction take effective steps to curb terrorism. The and try to bring about universalisation of National Front Government, (TDP) was also education in real earnestness unlike what was there in the State of Andhra. Even today a attempted by the previous Government which number of MLAs are Being kidnapped. The was only a hazarous thing. Thank you. State Government headed by Shri N: T. Rama. Rao encouraged these Naxalites and SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Mr. Vice- that is why the Naxalites. are doing it. There Chairman, Sir, in para 2. of the President's has been no mention of these things in the Address it has been stated "The people have President's Address. Sir, our party is given a clear verdict in favour of change. " I committed to helping the, weaker sections of am sorry to say that the present 'National society. Our party is all for reservation for the Front Government gave this Address to the weaker sections of society, our great leader, President to read it like that. The National Shrimati Indira Gandhi had advocated Front Government came into existence reservation for the Scheduled Caste and the because of the magnanimity of my leader, the Scheduled Tribes. In our manifesto also, we Congress President, Shri Rajiv Gandhi. He have mentioned this thing very clearly and our did not stake his claim to form the party is one with the Government on this Government. (Interruptions)... You don't issue. But the National Front Government has understand the reality of the situation. The not clarified its position in this respect. The democratic values of this nation have been other day, the hon. Minister, Shri Ram Vilas upheld by the Congress party from Panditji, Paswan, did not clarify the position while Indiraji and Rajivji. The transfer of power replying to the debate. I would like that the took place in 1977 when Indiraji was the Prime Minister as well as Shri Ram Vilas Prime Minister. I know about the constituents Paswan should clarify the stand of the of the National Front Government. What is National Front Government with regard to the happening in the communist world? The reservation policy. Today a statement has people are struggling for the human right, and been made by Shri Kanshi Ram wherein he many people have been killed there. Here has categorically stated that the National Front nothing of that sort is happening. The Government is responsible for the current Congress leadership has given away the anti-reservation campaign Which is going on power very smoothly. Please do not in the country. There Is no reaction from the underestimate this. Government to that statement. The Govern- ment must come un with a clear cut policy on SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: You are un- reservation. Our party is committed to this dermining the people. issue. Your Deputy Prime Minister is saying something. Mr. Chandrashekhar is* saying SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: We are another thing and Mr. is giving maximum respect to the people. The keeping- quite. (Interruptions). You have people of India still voted for the Congress already spoken. Now. you ask the Prime party and we are the single largest majority Minister to reply. party in the country. If you see the percentage Sir, they want to make everything open. of votes polled, " it is very clear. The people They say Doordarshan and All.. voted for the Congress party and its leader, Shri' Rajiv Gandhi.

299 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 300 Address [Shri Dipen Ghosh] India Radio would SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: It is the be given autonomy to ensure free flow of double-standard of Mr. Rajiv Gandhi information. The hon. Minister, Shri who went to Kayalpattinam, a Muslim , is here. Shri V. area, to address in Hindi, in Tamil Nadu. Gopalsamy is also sitting here. I am very This is the double-standard Mr Rajiv happy. The other day, on the eve of the Gandhi practised. Because the area has second anniversary of Dr. M. G. Ranw- Muslim population, he started in Hindi. chandran, there was a procession which They did not understand because they did was organised both by the DMK as well not know Hindi. This is the double- as the AIADMK people but only the standard practised. (Interruptions). DMK Chief Minister, Shri Karunanidhi was shown on the TV and not the AIADMK leader Miss Jayaialitha and her SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Mr. group. They are partisan. I do not know Gopalsamy, you may not know. I was what the Prime Minister is going to say with the then Prime Minister at that time on this issue. Yesterday even own hon. It is the people who asked him to speak Minister for Information and Broad- in Hindi before he spoke. You do riot casting, Shri P. Upendra admitted that he know that. And 1 know about that. (Interruption). has not given Instructions to any of the officials. To that, or leader shri Shivshanker said, "that means the Minister does not have control over them. SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: Your " But the hon. Minister did not agree with Prime Minister and Deputy Prime that. We know they are deliberately Minister were taking oath in Hindi and propagating their own ideas. We have no you were keeping quiet. You are- objection to that. But they should not compromising on your language policy have mentioned about free flow of because you are given a berth in the information in the President's Address. Ministry. That is your policy. You had (Interruptions) been shouting when our people spoke in Hindi. But when the Prime Minister took Sir, our hon. Deputy Prime Minister, Shri oath in Hindi you were keeping quite. Devi Lal, made a statement in Madras (Interruptions). that the three-language policy would be pursued by the National Front Government. Shri Murasoli Maran is also SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Then, a Minister in Centre. He represents the Sir, the National Front Government has D. M. K, party. This party is still announced, in the Presidential Address that saying in Tamil Nadu that they are they are going to waive the loans taken by committed to the two-language formula. farmers to the tune of Rs. 10, 000 each I have no quarrel with them. But what I farmer. (Interruption). It has announced would like to know from the Government waiver or relief. Now, the Congress is what policy they are going to pursue Governments in Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, in this respect. The National Front Bihar Rajasthan and other States have come Government wants to pursue the forward and announced to waiver of loans three-language formula. That means to the tune of Rs. 15, 000. But, in Tamil they are going to forego the two- Nadu, agriculturists' organisation and language fromula in Tamil Nadu. political parties have demanded the (Interruption), No, you are in the immediate waiver of loans taken by small Ministry. You must clarify this fact. and medium fanners, weavers and small People want to know about it. And this artisans. To our surprise, our State doublestandard will not 4 P. M. go long. Government i in Tamil Nadu, led by Mr. That is why I am asking you. - Karunani-dhi, has not come forward to (Interruptions) announce that like Kerala and West Bengal, 301 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] on the President's 302 Address What Is their real policy? They announce of the refugees is known well to everybody. some policy and they are not implementing it Our friends, particularly Mr. Gopalsamy, whereas the Congress Government was know well about it. Now, today, this implementing what it announced. Government, according to he, has given a (Interruptions). clean chit even to , 5ri Lanka and the Sinhalese army along with certain vested SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: Alter coming interests in that area. Innocent Tamils are into power, we waived loans to the tune of being killed. Of course, our Chief Minister Rs. 107 crores. lias been assigned by the Prime Minister to discuss the problems of Tamils with the THE VlCl-CHAlRMAN (SHRI MIRZA various groups. But, according to us, he Has lRSHADBAIG): Please do not interrupt all discussed it with only one group. It was the the time. Let him conclude. policy of Mr. Rajiv Gandhi which brought about the Indo-Sri Lanka Agreement... (In- SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: That is terruptions) only interest. You are under confusion. Your SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: To butcher the leaders are under confusion. Yesterday, he Tamils there... (Interruption*). was telling that he would waive... (Interruptions). SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: We save the Tamils... (Interruptions)... THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA IRSHADRAIG): Please conclude now. SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: To butcher the Kindly don't interrupt him. Tamils by sending our Army there... (Interruptions) SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: It is our policy. What is your policy? You have said SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: You you are going to give relief to farmers. Are please sit down. I am not yielding... you giving it in the States? It was cheap (Interruptions)... popularity. We are giving. But you are not giving {Interruptions) THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG): Please con elude SHRI S. B. CHAVAN (Maharashtra): Let me" understand what Mr. Gopalsamy says. now. Kindly repeat it. SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: It Is not SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: While answering correct... (interruptions)... Mr. KarunanldhI, the a question, you said, on the waiver of loans, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, after talking to waiving loans would not help. The the LTTE leadership, has said that now the Government was not committed to waiving ball is in the court of the Central Government. loans because the Reserve Bank was I do not know where the ball is now. Sir, objecting to it. That was the answer. repeated requests are coming from various (Interruptions). organizations in Sri Lanka. We are not supporting this group or that group. We are SHRI K. V THANGKABALU: Whatever for a settlement and for peace in that area. But it is, you have said in the manifesto, but you that is a question mark today. Now, one group are not implementing it. is attacking another group and in the process, innocent Tamils are being killed. Sir, my last point is with regard to Sri (Interruptions). Lanka. After the National Front came to power, the situation in Sri Lanka is becoming SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: The previous worse and worse every day. Every day, Government, your Government, did all that to hundreds of people are being chered, killed butcher the Tamils... (Interruptions) and murdered. The magnitude of the inflow

303 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 304 Address SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: No, . not rent matter. Not only an elected Gov-ernemnt at all... (Interruptions)... I want to know from is there, but also there are the Government whether they are going to call other democratic forces ____ and they all the parties in that area for a discussion and should also be considered for the discussion. then come to a settlement or they are going to There is another thing in Sri Lanka. The have discussions only with one party and then Sinhala Army is colonising in Tamil areas come to a settlement, final Settlement... and this is a very serious matter. Mr. (Interruptions) Gopalsamy is talking about many things. But he cannot talk about this... (Interruptions) SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; You do not know that the "Hindu" has already ■said that Mr. SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: We are against Varadaraja Perumal is coming for talks... colonisation... (Interruption)... ve are against (Interruptions)... ' colonisation... (Interrup' tions)... SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: There is no SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Then why surety... (Interruptions)... There is no surety. are you supporting them?... (inter-ruptions)... So far the Government has not come forward You are supporting the Sri Lankan to Issue a statement in this regard... (. Government and they are killing innocent Interruptions) What the "Hindu" has reporter people there with the help of the Sri Lankan is not correct. ■ Government today. Today, the situation in Sri Lanka is worsening and this should not SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: It has already continue. I want to know whether the reported that he is coming. Government is going to adopt any policy to brihg peace in that Island or not. This is the SHRI K, V. THANGKABALU: Is the main issue today. I want to know from the "Hindu" the Bible? Is whatever comes in the honourable Prime Minister and also the "Hindu" to be believed? ... (Interruptions)... concerned Ministers... THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG): Mr. Gopalsamy, I am sorry SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: You cannot to say that all the time you are interrupting all expect the short-sighted policy of the Rajiv the Members. This is not a good practice. Government from us. (Interrup-tions).. When your turn comes, you can speak... (Interruptions)... I am not allowing you. SHRI M. M. JACOB: Mr. Vice-Chairman, Please sit down now. Sir, Mr. Gopalsamy is not governed by any rule in this House? There is no rule pertaining SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: They do to Mr. Gopalasamy in this House?.,. not know the correct position; they do not (Interrup* tions)... He is not following any know it correctly. rule and he is continuously interrupting Members from this side and he is not allowing THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MlRZA any Member from this side to speak. Is it the IRSHADBAIG): Please conclude now. We way democracy is to function? are very much short of time. Please conclude (Interruptions)... now. SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: Why is he SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: There is referring to my name every time? You ask an elected Government there led by Mr. him why he is referring to me every time... Varadaraja Perumal. That Government is (Interruptions) there now, whether it is right or wrong. It is an elected Government, approved by the SHRI M. M JACOB: Have you the Constitution of Sri Lanka and it is there. monopoly to threaten everybody?... Whether you like it or not is a diffe- 305 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 306 Address (Interruptions')... Have you the Monopoly to It is Mr. Rajiv Gandhi only who saved your threaten everybody in this House? life... (Interruptions)... It is because of Rajiv SHRI V. GOPALSAMY; You should Gandhi that you are sitting today. Do not forget that. I will tell you. You have violated advise your colleagues first... (Interrup' all the norms, and you being a Member of tions)... Parliament you went to Sri Lanka without THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA prior permission of both Governments. Your IRSHADBAIG): Mr. Thangka-balu, please leader, Karunani-dhi, did not approve of it. conclude now. He said: I do not know what happened to him. SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: I am (Interruptions) It is the Prime Minister of coming to my point now... (Interruptions)... India... (Interruptions) It is the Congress . THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA Party and Rajiv Gandhi who brought you to IRSHADBAIG): Do not quarrel amon(tst India safely. (Interrup, tions). yourselves... (Interruptions) SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: On a point of SHRI M. M. - JACOB: Has Mr. order. Just now my learned friend Mr. Gopalsamy the monopoly to threaten Thangkabalu referred to Mr. Gopalsamy's everybody?... (Interruptions)... They have alleged going to Sri Lanka and Rajiv Gandhi's also the right to speak here... (In- reported helping him to come out of Sri eerruptions)... They have got a right to speak Lanka. It was never referred to, though he here... (Interruptions)... was a Member of this House, which was an obligation on the part of the erstwhile SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Whenever Government. It was never referred to, though they spoke, I did not interrupt and I kept he was a Member of this House. This cannot quiet... (Interruptions) go on record. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG): Now, please conclude SHRI M. M. JACOB: Nothing is unparliamentary in this. SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Just in two minutes. Sir. SHRI V. GOPALSAMY: I do not owe my life or anything to Rajiv Gandhi. I was not THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA saved by anybody from the Indian side or the IRSHADBAIG): No, in half-a-minute. IPKF. Rather I was attacked by the IPKF. I SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Sir, I was saved by LTTE in that island. request the Government of India to come (Interruptions). forward with a suitable solution and to help the Tamils in Sri Lanka to have a peaceful life SHRI JAGESH DESAI: Mr. Vice- in that area. Chairman, I have gone through the Address and I have found in the Address how this THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI MIRZA Government works. They have said regarding IRSHADBAIG): Thank you. the right of information. I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether the right of SHRI K. V. THANGKABALU: Unless and information means concealment of in- until peace is restored, the Government should formation, distortion of information or to not withdraw the IPKF. As long as the IPKF mislead the people. Yesterday only during the was there, the people were very happy. That Question Hour when the discussion on the was the mood of the people. We should price rise was going on, Mr. Mirdha, the respect the sentiments of the Tamils in Sri Minister, stated that after they camr Into Lanka, not only of the Tamils in Sri Lanka, power the prices were going down. I told but also of the people in India. Mr. them: you are telling an untruth and mis- Gopalsamy was talking about Mr. Rajiv leading the House, that the prices are Gandhi and was saying that the Tamils were butchered. 307 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 308 Address [Shri. Jagesh Desai] coming down irom The wholesale price index had gone up by the month of October 1989 when this 21. 4 per cent. This was their Government was not in power, and that performance. Why? Because they had no has been borne out by the paper, the policy, because they had a different kind Economic Council paper, given to us. of interest in the Government. The same Yesterday Mr. , thing is going to. happen this time. I the Minister for Homo Affairs, when he would not like to say that the BJP is a was asked a certain-question, in the right reactionary party. Now they have name of secrecy, in the name of security, the Left Parties. There are so many he did not disclose the place where Dr. elements in it. Even the Siv Sena which is Rubiya was confined was it so with the BJP is now supporting this Gov- Secret? Is this kind of information hot ernment. If you are going to do it with the to be given to the Members of support of these parties, then I am sure Parliament? Therefore, I would like to you will not be able to implement your emphasise that this Government wants manifesto. Therefore, I would like to to say something and act in some other emphasise that if you want to govern this manner. What was the performance of country, then you have to implement your some of the members of this Government manifesto. I wiil say that even in the when they were in the Congress or during Address of your Prime Minister, he did the Janata regime? I would like to give not men-tiofi the names of Panditji or some figures. They say that we have Gandhiji. I would like to know on whose emptied the coffers. They talk. They want behest it was done. to teach us how the economy should be run. I would give some facts and figures Sir, there is talk about money supply. for this Government's consumption. Our Prime Minister has said that the Please don't forget the period from 1977 economy of this country is shattered to 1980 when because of your rolling because of money supply. What was the plan you had shattered the whole economy picture when Mr. V. P. Singh was the of the country. It was completely in a Finance Minister? The highest money mess. We inherited such an economy that it supply in this country was in the year took four years for our Government to put 1984-85. It was 18. 9 per cent. Today it again on the rails. What was your also it is 17. 7 per cent. Do you want to performance? In the year 1979-80, your say that if this Prime Minister when he growth rate was minus 4. 7 per cent. In was the Finance Minister at that time the earlier years, the growth rate was 5 could not control the money supply, he per cent. At that time, some of your will be able to control the money supply members, including Mr. Vajpayee, were now? in power. I can understand that at that time SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Because he Telugu Desam and D. M. K, were not in was not the Prime Minister at that time. the Government. Now the BJP says that (Interruptions) they will see that this Government runs. They were partners in the Government SHRI JAGESH DESAI: What about then. And what was the picture then? The the public sector? 70, 000 crores of dismal picture was minus 4. 7 per cent rupees have been given to the public growth rate. Every kind of production sector in the last five years. And Arif went down. The agricultural Mohammad Khan has got the guts to gay production went down by 15. 2 per cent. that Rajiv Gandhi was against the public The foodgrains production was less by 16. sector. As you know, the fiscal 2 per cent. What 'was the wholesale price concessions by way of permitting in- index? I will upto tell you what was the terest-free loans to the public sector on role of some of the members of this Gov- the money deposited in the public sector ernment when they were on this tide. were given by this Government when Rajiv Gandhi was the Prime Minister. At that time, Rajiv Gandhi had given all types of help to the pub-

309 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 310 Address lie sector because he wanted that the first time in 1985-86, have gone down by public sector should be run efficiently. 7. 2 per cent. Never have I seen this kind What is the picture now? After these of a picture. So far, I said, we will see the efforts, in the 28 public sector enterprises performance of the past Government, and the production has gone up by 20 per cent this Government. The performance of in the month of August, the production some of the persons who have gone from has gone up by 20 per cent when this side to that side is also not good. The compared to last August. In the last six exports have gone down by 8. 2 per cent. months, the production has gone up by 22 Mr. Dipen Ghosh, never had it happened per cent, and this is because of the efforts ... (Interruptions) made by Rajiv Gandhi and telling them that 'you have to increase your efficiency, SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Was it an and by that you have to produce more, individual's performance or the Gov- and the productivity has been achieved in ernment's performance? the public sector. Earlier, there were losses. But -last year, Shakarraoji—if I SHRI JAGESH DESAI: I am saying am wrong, I may be corrected—my this because Mr. Samar Mukherjee has recollection is that the public sector has said about this. been given Rs. 70, 000 crores. Out of that (Interruptions) Rs. 30, 000 crores was by way of equity, and the remaining is by way of loans. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: It is the - After giving the interest on loan, the collective responsibility of the Cabinet. public sector has earned in the years For all the evils, you blame the then 1987-88 about Rs. 3, 000 crores because Finance Minister, Mr. V. P. Singh, and for our Prime Minister had personnally taken all the gains, you appreciate Rajiv Gandhi it upon himself to see that the public as the Prime' Minister. sector works efficiently. And this is the result. And he had the guts to say that the SHRI JAGESH' DESAI: Mr. Dipen previous Prime Minister was against the Ghosh, why I am saying this is because it public sector. I think, such kind of is said that Mr. V. P. Singh had to collect remarks by a-member of the Cabinet are revenue by way of raids... (Interruptions) unwarranted, and I would like that he should again check up why this has SHRI DIPEN GHOSH; Mr. Desai, I happened. And I know, and I do not want can quote from your speech rendered in to say about my personal talks with Mr. this House when Mr. V. P. Singh V. P. Singh or my friend, Mr. Dinesh Go- presented his Budget. We criticised it swami. I have got that status. But I know and you supported his Budget. I can the story of what had happened at that quote from your speech. time. But I am not going to tell anything which was told to me privately. And as SHRI JAGESH DESAI: I was the first regards; the export and import trade... person to oppose the abolition of the (Interruption) I am saying this because in Estate Duty. You are Leftists now.,. the President's Address, they are saying (Interruptions) that the whole economy is shattered. And what has happened? Mr. Vice-Chairman, SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: All of you Sir, I would like to give one or two have supported Mr. V. P. Singh's figures on this aspect. As regards the price Budget. We opposed. rise, I-have already said. Sir, in 19854*6, (Interruptions) when Mr. V. P. Singh was the Finance Minister, the imports were to the tune of SHRI JAGESH DESAI: I have told Rs. 19657 crores. And they had gone up him... (Interruptions) IF you want to help by 14. 7 per cent. And the exports for the the feudals; yoti have got large estates. I told him. (Interruptions)

311 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 312 Address Communists on the other. You cannot do it. (Interruptions) -Then, about the right to work. You said that you would give the right to work. On that basis, you got the votes. You got the votes from the younger generation in the name of SHRI JAGESH DESAI: As a Member of giving them employment. But what have you this House, I am speaking. I have my own done? The youth will organise themselves. views. Mr. Samar Mukherjee is saying that They will arise. Earlier, they did not have this because of raids, he was able to collect the as a Fundamental Right and, therefore, they revenue, by way of taxation. Mr. Samar did not understand the implications. But you Mukherjee said that because of raids, Mr. V. said you would give it. In his. speech on the P. Singh was able to collect revenue. But television, your Prime Minister said... what is the picture? SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Our Prime Minister. SHRI DIPEN, GHOSH; It is a fact. SHRI JAGESH DESAI: Yes. Our Prime SHRI JAGESH DESAI: Your paper -says Minister. something different please. (Interruptions) SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Admit it, In the case of G. D. P.. earlier, it was 2. 1 per cent. But when Mr. V. P. Singh was the SHRI JAGESH DESAI: The Prime Finance Minister, it went down to 2 per cent. Minister said in his television speech that they Again, it went up. But I must say this. It was would give this right. He has said this after in our election manifesto; about unearth, ing assuming the office of the Prime Minister. black money. Mr. V. P. Singh did some good Therefore, it is the policy of the Government. work. (Time bell rings). It was the collective But now they say that they will try to do it. wisdom of the Government. (Interruptions) People are not going to be hoodwinked by this. Let us know from where you are going to Another thing is, you have not provided any find the re-sources. funds here for slum improvement. I do not find a single word in the Address regarding With these words, I oppose the Motion of provision of funds for slum improvement. Thanks on the President's Address. I have Nothing has been mentioned about housing given notice cf some amendments and I will for these people. Earlier, we were giving speak at that time. Thank you. grants to the State Governments for slum SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Mr. Vice- improvement. It is these people who live in Chairman, Sir, I thank them that they are slums who produce the various goods. For im- applauding the thumping desks while I rise to proving their condition, we provided, our speak. Government provided, funds. But your Government has not provided any funds for SHRI S. B. CHAVAN: You are mistaken. this purpose and the Address is completely silent on it. Of course, we have given time to SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: We you. You stick to your programmes. If your thumped the. desks for Mr. Jagesh Desai's speech. Don't think that it was for yourself. policies are progressive, we will support you. But you cannot solve the problems. You SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: - There is an cannot do it because you: have to compromise expression in English 'pot calling the kettle with the B. J. P.,, on the one hand, which is a black'. If one has to understand the meaning- reactionary party, I believe, and and the implication of 313 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1980] on the President's 314 Address this expression, one has just to go through the in the history of India's parliamentary speeches made by my learned colleagues democracy that principle, that demand of the from the other side, belonging to the opposition has been upheld by both the Congress (I). President of India and the Prime Minister of the new Government. For the first time, it was the President of India who called Shri V. P. Whatever they have criticised, whatever Singh to form the Government and asked him they have said and whatever they have to prove his majority on the floor of suggested as a modification to the President's Parliament within 30 days. It was for the first Address by way of amendments, whether it is time that our Prime Minister had sought the in regard to Jammu and Kashmir or Punjab or confidence vote on the floor of Lok Sabha and the Ram Janambhoomi-Babri Masjid secured the confidence of the entire Lok controversy, it is all the legacy of the past Sabha. It is unfortunate on the part of the which the new Government has inherited. Indian parliamentary democracy that the Even Mr. S. B. Chavan will agree with me. largest opposition party in the Lok Sabha He was the Home Minister at the Centre could neither oppose nor accept that vote of when the Punjab situation started worsening. confidence, it could neither vote against nor in Therefore, I say, whether it is the Punjab favour. Of course, I know, having lost the problem or the Jammu and Kashmir issue or power they have been reduced to a hung party, the Ram Janambhoomi-Babri Masjid not 'hung parliament'. So, Sir, what I wanted controversy, it did not happen in a day or to impress upon you is that if one is to find out two. Surer ly, the Congress (I), as the ruling the watershed in the President's Speech this party at that time, has to admit that its year, he will have to find it out in paragraph policies were faulty. 12. This Government have started, doing its work, upholding, the democratic principle by seeking vote of confidence on the floor of [The Vice-Chairman (Shri Satya Prakash Parliament. So, in paragraph 12, rightly to the Malaviya) in the Chair profess.... (Interruptions). I am not reading. They are going to repeal the 59fh Amendment Before criticising or before demanding any to the Constitution which had taken away plan of action from the new Government. even the right to life, not simply other What they could not do during the last five fundamental rights. They have promised' to years, they now want the same thing to be repeal the Postal Bill by which the erstwhile done by the new Government in five days. Government had sought to intervene into the That is why I said that a pot calls the kettle privacy of individual's life. Sir, I ami not black. Mr. Vice-Chairman, the most hallmark going to waste my time over what they have of this Address is the Government's promise promised, but I must thank the new to restore the hitherto throttled democratic Government on behalf of my party that they institutions and the rights of the people by the have promised to restore the hitherto throttled erstwhile Government. Sir, you are aware that democratic institutions and rights of the many a time in the past when the question of people taken away by the erstwhile minority or majority of a ruling Government Government. But here I want to point out and came, we in the opposition always wanted the surely the Minister will take note of it... majority of the ruling party to be assessed and determined on the floor of the Parliament or on the floor of the Legislature. Instead, it was SHRI S. B, CHAVAN; He is not taking being determined in the Chambers of the notes at all. Governors or in the Rash-trapati Bhawan. Sir, for the first time 315 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 316 Address SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: They will be taking want to make a request to you. Kindly notes. You know, you had been the Minister. conclude at quarter to five. Who takes the notes and on whose behalf you speak and through whose write-ups you SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Okay, thank you. spoke. I know that. You are very generous to. SHRI S. B. CHAVAN: On whose behalf? The bureaucracy? Sir, at the same time, I would like to point out that here in paragraph 12, it has been SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Naturally. You mentioned that the amendment to the need not provoke me. I can tell you who takes Commissions of Inquiry Act which sought to the notes and on whose noting you give the permit withholding of vital information from; reply, or make the speeches. Okay- Had I not the people and Parliament will be removed seen some of your party members taking even from the Statute Book. You know the context the briefs from the officers from the gallery, in which it came— in order to withhold the then I would not have stated all these things. Thakkar Commission's Report from SHRI M. M. JACOB:... I had statement. Parliament and from the people. For that Even at that time when he mentioned it... purpose, the previous Government had amen- ded that Act. But when some excerpts were SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: It is on record, Mr. published by some newspapers and we in the Jacob, you had to express regret for that. Opposition insisted on the publication of the SHRI M. M. JACOB... I had said that they entire report, though initially they denied and came to see me and not any officer, if you are said that what was published in the newspaper referring to some incident which happened. report was not correct, but afterwards they had to lay it on the Table. But they did not lay on SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: I would like to the Table the entire Thakkar Commission's draw your kind attention to this particular Report. They suppressed that part of the report aspect which has been mentioned by my wherein Justice Thakkar had indicated the learned colleague, Mr. Chaturanan Mishra, existence of the hand of the foreign agencies that the previous Government had introduced in the assassination of Mrs. Indira Gandhi and a Bill in the Rajya Sabha—i. e. the Industrial also their connection with some officials in Disputes and Trade Union Amendment Bill— the Prime Minister's office and-in Government with the intention of taking away the trade of India in the Ministry of Defence. I would union rights of the working class of our request the new Government to lay on the country and making the workers of our Table that suppressed part of the Thakkar country obsequious to the employers. I would Commission's Report so that the people and urge upon the Government, while they have Parliament can come to know the foreign already promised to restore the hitherto throt- agencies which were behind the assassination tled democratic institutions and the democratic of Mrs. Gandhi and the officials there at that rights of the people and they have also time in the Ministry of Defence, or promised to repeal some of the Acts passed by Governemnt of India or in the Prime the erstwhile Government, that they should Minister's Office who had complicity with withdraw that Bill—i. e. the Industrial those foreign agencies. Disputes and Trade Union Amendment Bill. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SATYA Sir, now I want to say a few words about PRAKASH MALAVIYA)- I my senior colleague, Mr. S. B. Chavan's remarks made yesterday and my another senior colleague, Mr. Jagesh Desai's remarks made just now.

317 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 318 Address Mr. Chavan obviously owed an explanation —I am not in full agreement with what that to this House as ex-Finance Minister while note suggests because that note also taking part in this debate, rebutting some of ultimately had to suggest a rosy picture—-that the reported remarks made by some of the rosy picture is not a rosy picture really. What Ministers outside Parliament about the eco- has contributed to that higher growth rate?, nomic condition of our country. On the eve of The services and then the consumer goods, the election he was the Finance Minister. not the wage goods, consumer durables. After some hours we are going to discuss the economic note also. So, naturally, I do not So, the necessity is for a shift in the want to waste much time by discussing that economic policy, a shift from the previous aspect. But only I want to say one thing. Mr. policy which I expect from the new S. B. Chavan has stated that there was Government. There are some hard options, continuity, that no coffers remained anywhere and those options have to be accepted. There at any time empty. It is true. There is con- must be a cut on import. There must be a tinuity. But continuity by what? Continuity by restraint, if not total opposition to the multi- growing indebtedness. You had kept the national corporations' entry into our country. coffers full or rather half-full or quarter-full. There must be an effective effort to reduce You had not allowed the coffers to be empty. indebtedness, to reduce dependence on debt. By what? By increasing indebtedness. People outside do not understand it. When a SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Why is Mr. commercial firm runs short of liquidity, that Gorbachev inviting multinationals? firm goes to the bank and draws an overdraft. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: To that I will reply That commercial firm has to pay back. But after the House adjourns. You come to my what happens in the case of Central house. I will explain what Mr. Gorbachev has Government? It draws a short-term treasury stated, and what my stand is, bill on the Reserve Bank of India. When the question of paying back that treasury bill THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SATYA comes, then, it draws another short-term PRAKASH MALAVIYA): Over a cup of tea. treasury bill. This way the continuity goes on. That apart, there is commercial borrowings. SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Over a cup of tea, With the continuity the indebtedness of the of course. Government increases. So, according to the OBCD report, the internal and external debts SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Please together constitute Rs. 1, 96, 000 crores just give me. when Mr. S. B. Chavan was the Finance SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: Sure. You are invited to my place. Minister. SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: You are a SHRI JAGESH DESAI; What about the communist, I know. asset created? SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: So, Sir, I am going SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: I can tell you that to complete my speech. I would like to have a according to the last Budget presented by Mr. specific clarification from the new Chavan the total asset was short, was less by Government. It has not been that way very Rs. 59, 000 crores than the total liability. You much specifically mentioned. That is what check up that Budget. I am not going to waste Mr. Yashwant Sinha mentioned while moving time on that. That Is why, -whatever strength the motion. You know, Sir, including you, you wanted to portray the Indian economy when you were in the Opposition, that we had that way opposed Pepsies coming to our

319 Motion of thanks '[ RAJYA SABHA i qn the President's 320 Address [Shri Dipen Ghosh] have no cheek to criticise this Government on this issue because whatever American country. We opposed not because the Pepsi intervention has taken place in the Indian was a bad product, but because of the economy and in its political affairs, that has priorities and emphasis to be given to which taken place during the last thirtynine and a sector—this sector or that sector. half years ruled by the Congress party. SHRI GHULAM RASOOL MATTO: Do SHRI JAGESH DESAI: And what about you want to go back on international the two and a half years ot Janata rule? commitments? AN HON. MEMBER: Coca Cola was SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: No, I don't want to kicked out then. go back on international commitments, but SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: I can quote from my friend does not know the agreement which Rajiv Gandhi's speech, what he said in the the Punjab Agro-Industries and the Pepsi had Rajya Sabha here after his last visit to the entered into with Voltas, now, that Pepsi is United States: "Now the USA is a greater trying to back on their agreement. Now they partner in our trade. " He said so on the floor are saying that according to that agreement of this House. Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, we they cannot export, according to the want a clarification from the Prime Minister agreement they cannot produce these things. of the new Government on the reported news So, they wanted to bend the rules. That I have in India Abroad about Super 301. already pointed out to the new Prime Minister. I know he ins and outs of that agreement and the activities of Pepsi going on While concluding I want to say that we in India. I have already written to the Prime stand by the non-alignment policy of our Minister. So, I would request our Leader of country. We stand by the policy of peace the House when the Prime Minister replies, I against war and against intervention by the would be happy to know his reaction about imperialists, but we want to tell them—we this. have already told you—that the policy of non- alignment was not the policy of any particular Finally, Sir, yesterday Mr. Chavan had individual Prime Minister, whether it was pointed out about Super-301. You know my Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandhi or Rajiv party's position. When the previous Gandhi. It was the policy of the people of Government led by Mr. Rajiv Gandhi was India. And no Government in India could dare here. It was I who raised this issue on the oppose that policy because it was the policy floor of this House. Rajiv Gandhi also did not of the people of India. So, in conclusion I clarify though he might have clarified to would say because this new Government has Jagesh Desai. been installed by the people's mandate and the stability of this Government lies in the SHRI JAGESH DESAI: No. (Inter, fulfilment of the promises given to the people, ruptions) I have full faith and confidence In the new leadership and the new Government that it SHRI DIPEN GHOSH: I know what is the would fulfil the promises it has given to the relationship between Rajiv Gandhi and people. The President's Address is very short President Bush and when President Bush but very specific. It Is indicative of their came how a personal letter wa, s exchanged forthrightness of the promises made to the between Rajiv Gandhi and President Bush people. It is also indicative of their sincerity to and Lady Rajiv Gandhi and Lady Bush, (interruptions) I know that. That is why I started with the English saying pot calls the kettle black'. That w. Ry they 321 Motion of tanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 322 Address fulfil the promises made to the people. I hope with the support of the people, they will fulfil these promises. I support the Motion of Thanks to the President's Address. Thank you. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SATYA PRAKASH MALAVIYA): Shri Syed Sibtey Razi. Please take 5-6 minutes. SHRI SYED SIBTEY RAZI (Uttar Pradesh): Why this discrimination? THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI SATYA PRAKASH MALAVIYA): Because there are many speakers from your party. SHRI JAGESH DESAI: The Janata Dal has taken more time than the allotted time. SHRI SYED SIBTEY RAZI: At least give me ten minutes.

727 RS—11.

323 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 324 Address

325 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the Preiedent's 326 Address

THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I understand you have a very good speech. But I have many speakers from the Congress party.

327 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 328 Address

329 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] on the President's 330 Address

331 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 232 Address

333 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1939] on the Preiedent's 334 Address

-[RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 336 335 Motion or thanks [ RAJYA SABHA] Address

337 Motion of thanks [28 DEC 1989] on the preiedent's on the Preiedent's 338 Address

339 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 340 Address

341 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC 1989 ] on the Preiedent's 342 Address

343 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 344 Address

345 Motion of thanks [ 28 DEC. 1989 ] on the President's 346 Address

SHRI GHULAM RASOOL MATTO: Madam Deputy Chairman, I have to bring to your kind notice that now the Leader of the House is not here, and we have allotted business of lour to five hours. Is he aware that the House will have to sit late willy-nilly to transact the business? There are two Bills, one'Short Duration Discussion and one Statement. Is he aware that the House has to sit late? Has he made arrangements for the Members for sitting up to 11 o'clock?

THE AND MINES WITH ADDITIONAL CHARGE OF THE: MINISTRY OF LAW AND JUSTICE (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): I will convey the message to the Leader of the House. t [ ] Transliteration in Arabic script. 347 Motion of thanks [ RAJYA SABHA ] on the President's 348 Address

THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He will convey the message to the Leader of the House.

SHRI CHATURANAN MISHRA: If he can take notes on behalf of the Minister, he can arrange it also.

SHRI SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY: But the THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: We must coffers are empty, according to them. Where welcome Mr. Ram Awdhesh Singh. from do they get money?

SHRI V. NARAYANASAMY: We were SHRI DINESH GOSWAMl: We will worried about his whereabouts. borrow from Mr. Subransanian Swamy. I know he has enough to give us. SHRI MIRZA IRSHADBAIG: The credit goes to me; this is because of me only.

349 Motion of thanks [28 DEC. 1989] on the President's 350 Address

351 Motion of thanks [RAJYA SABHA] on the President's 352 Address

353 Representation [28 DEC. 1989] People (Amdt. ) 354 Address

SHRI SHABBIR AHMAD SALARIA (Jammu and Kashmir): Hon. Deputy Chairman, in the debate on the President's Address, it has been said that certain improvements will be made and certain laws will be amended. We welcome that. But we feel that so far as the question of removing certain draconian laws is concerned, it has not engaged the attention of the President. Moreover the question of the removal of the Trade Union Act has also not engaged his attention.

So far as the State of Jammu and Kashmir is concerned, the question has arisen as to the conditions prevailing there. I would submit that the conditions in the State can be set right if it is taken into consideration that the erosion of article 370 by bringing in article 249 and making it applicable to the State has to be removed. If the people of the State are allowed employment in the Central Govern- ment departments, if the various roads, the historic approaches which the State of J&K has had in the past with the rest of the country and with

727 RS—12

355- Representation [RAJYA SABHA] People (Amdt. ) 356 of the [Shri Shabbir Ahmed Salaria] the rest of the circumstances, therefore, I would sub-| mit... world, such as the Uri road and the Suchetgarh (Time bell rings) Madam Deputy Chairman, road, are opened for the people of Kashmir please give me a minutes. and if electricity and other needs of the people I would submit that in the circumstances, of the State are met, the conditions in the State in order to bring about conditions which will can be improved. The fact that there have been enable the country to progress... large scale communal disturbances in India has obviously affected many States in the THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please take country. They have affected the secular stature your seat. of the country and secular structure of the SHRI SHABBIR AHMAD SALARIA: ... it country. In Jammu and Kashmir, where there is necessary that not only the communal is a Muslim majority, the people had acceded tangle and the communal disturbances should to a country which enshrined the principles of be undone but also we should do one thing secularism and socialism, as enunciated by that we should restore those rights of the . But in actual practice, what people throughout the country including1 the happened is that Mahatma Gandhi, that great State of Jammu and Kashmir with greater leader, himself tell a prey to the bullets of stress on the restoration of democracy, on the communalism. India has been wrought by so restoration of the status of the State of Jammu many communal riots that the faith of the and Kashmir so that the present situation is people in the existence of the socialist and avoided. secular structure in India has been shaken. If the turmoil in Punjab and the turmoil which is THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN; Thank you. there in Kashmir is to be arrested, we should We shall now take up the Representation of arrest the forces of communalism which are the people (Amendment) Bill, 1989. spreading throughout, the country. Mr. Asad SHRI ISH DATT YADAV: What about Madni has clearly pointed out the present Mr. Ram Awadhesh Singh? conditions in the country. SHRI RAM AWADHESH SINGH (Bihar) THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please : Madam Deputy Chairman... conclude now. SHRI SHABBIR AHMAD SALARIA: Unless and until these conditions are remedied, how can the confidence of the I won't allow. That is closed. I declare that people be restored?. If that is to be restored, that debate is closed, and the reply will be this thing will have to be checked. after the Question Hour tomorrow. Finish. Moreover, in the Address it has been said that the land IAWS would be reformed and that THE REPRESENTATION OF THE land would be given to the tiller. That is a PEOPLE (AMENDMENT) BILL 1989 statement made by the Central Government, whereas it is not within the power of the THE MINISTER OF STEEL AND' Central Government to do all that. Similarly, MINES WITH ADDITIONAL CHARGE OF when you say that the right to work shall be THE MINISTRY OF LAW AND JUSTICE given, it was said in the manifesto, but that (SHRI DINESH GOSWAMI): Madam, I beg does not find place in the Address of the Pre- to move... (Interrup, tions)... sident. That means, to that extent the THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Don't manifesto was overly done. In the disturb the House when the Minister is

on his legs. I don't allow you. I have given my ruling.