The Sudeten Germans! Who are they? An interview with Mrs HelgaMassa
Fran Downey Mr Litowlz 2[?^CenluryWorldHi stoiy Febnary 12. 2003 Table of Contents
Contract page 3
Statement of Purpose page 4
Biography page 5
Historical Contextualization page 6
Interview Trmiscription page 12
Interview Analysis page 39
Appendix page 44
Works Cited page 45 Purpose
The purpose of Helga Massa's story is to reveal a personal account of the expulsion of the Sudeten Germans from Czechoslovakia, following World War Two; an is mi aspect of history that has been Im-gely ignored. Her life story gives an accurate overview in understanding what happened to the Sudeten Germans and its influence on current Czech-German relations. Biography A summary of the life ofTTelgaMassa
Helga Massa was bom on July 8, 1926, in Krumal, Czechoslov^ia. She lived in
a region known as Sudetenland with her fmnily until the end of World War Two, when they were expelled. After they were expelled, she lived in East Germmiy with her fmnily
until the age of twenty, when she moved to London, where she was trained as a nurse. In
London, Helga met her husband, an Iraqi named Faud Massa. They later moved to Iraq
and lived through the Iraqi Revolution. After applying for immigration from Iraq, they
finally moved to the United States where they had their only daughter, Janmi. Helga
currently lives in Silver Spring and is a proud grandmother of Jennifer Slough, who has a
bright future playing field hockey for Yale University next year. She is an active
member of Grace Episcopal Church and is famous for her baking abilities. Contextualization Paper The Tmportance of the Sudeten Germans
It has been more than fifty years since the Sudeten Germans were expelled from their homes in Czechoslov^ia, a tragic event which is practically unknown to the world.
In studying post-World War II Europe, the international community remembers events
such as the Holocaust; however, the world fails to recognize the hundreds of thousands of
innocent civilimis who were sufferers of unchained hatred (Luza 293). After World War
II ended, between 1945 and 1947, the Sudeten Germmis were expelled by the Czechs.
More than three million of them became victims of cruelty connected with ethnic
cleansing. From the beginning, the beliefs of the Sudeten Germmis have contrasted with those of the Czechs. After World War I ended in 1918, hostilities greatly increased, due to the influence of Adolph Hitler's National Socialist Party. Hitler's goal was to fan
hatred against the Czechs among the Sudeten Germans mid to ultimately destroy the
Czechoslov^ Republic. "Central Europe has always been a traditional ground of
national conflicts, and one of the continuing features in the history of this area has been the rivalry between Czechs and Germmis" (Luza 23). The exposure of the transfer of the
Sudeten Germmis is fundamental as this event still t^es center stage in recent German-
Czech problems.
The term "Sudeten Germans" has been in use since the beginning of the century to describe the three mid half million Germans who lived in the three provinces, which
used to be known as the lands of the Bohemian Crown. (See appendix A.) For more thmi seven hundred years, Germmis and Czechs lived together peacefully
(http://strandlab.com/graden/history.html). From time to time there were conflicts such as the
Hussite Wars in the 15 Century, but they were fought for religious purposes, rather thmi on cultural grounds. The Sudeten Germans were pmt of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until the end of World War I in 1918, when the empire was dissolved. The seven million
Czechs demanded a state of their own in which the highly industrialized Sudetenland was to be incorporated, which occurred on October 18, 1918, when the Czechoslovakia was created. "Even before the proclamation of Czechoslovakia, the Sudeten Germans invoked the right to self-determination and demanded that their homeland be united with
Austria, thus uniting with the German Reich" (http://strandlab.com/graden/history.html).
On Mmch 4, 1919, Czech soldiers fired on Sudeten Germans who were demonstrating peacefully for their right to self-determination, resulting in the deaths of fifty-four innocent Germans. In 1919, the question of the right of Sudeten self- determination was addressed at the Peace Conference of St. Germain, which ruled against the union of Sudetenland with Austria. "They simply became part of the new state merely because of the outcome of the war and geo-political and economic circumstances, since the independence of Czechoslovakia required the inclusion of predominantly
German sections in her borders" (Luza 317). "The Sudeten Germans were forced into
Czechoslov^ia, a country which they rejected and in whose foundation and constitution they played virtually no pmt. The Czechs disregarded their rights as people and discriminated against them as individual citizens" (Tolmid 367). Almost forty percent of the population of Czechoslov^ia consisted of Sudeten Germmis, mmiy of whom where located in the dense area known as Sudetenland, on the southeastern border of Germmiy. 7
The Czechs were set on making their newly established country exclusively Czech,
conducting policies that were in opposition to the Germmi Imiguage and culture. They
closed down all German schools mid declmed Czech the official language; they curbed the Sudeten Germmi economy and restricted the powers of the local governments in
Sudeten Germmi towns. "It is stated that from the time the Czechoslovak Republic was founded, President Benes [President of Czech Republic] has persistently refused to keep
old promises mid to recognize the gravity of the Sudeten problem or to meet Sudeten
wishes" (Enderis). This ill treatment of the Germans resulted in raising the tension
between the Czechs and the Germans.
By 1918, the Sudeten Germans had been converted from masters into a minority
and had become strangers in the new climate of post-World War I Europe (Luza 29).
Germany had been severely damaged and their institutions had been corrupted as a result
of the war. Adolph Hitler was rising in the ranks and by 1930, he had taken over the
National Socialist Party in Munich, quickly gaining power by political means. He did this by promising to end unemployment, and to bring Germany out of the Depression,
which had left millions destitute. "During the astonishing six years between his
accession as chmicellor and the outbreak of World War II, Hitler made himself dictator
and made Germany Europe's strongest military power, while victors of World War I
looked on in confusion" (Sulzberger 19).
Once securely in power in a newly revitalized Germany, Hitler's first objective
was to secure its southern and eastern flanks by seizing Austria and Czechoslovakia.
"The Chancellor [Hitler] was grimly determined to liquidate the Czech minority conflicts
at one swoop" (Enderis). Motivated to end the suppression of Sudeten Germmis, Hitler had been covertly subsidizing the Nazi Sudeten Party, led by Konrad Henlein and it controlled the entire Germmi minority (Toland 460).
After taking control of Austria in 1938, Hitler secured southern Germmiy and then looked southeast, where he was determined to take over Sudetenland. At the Munich
Conference, on September 29, 1938, representatives from France, Italy, and Great Britain agreed that Sudetenland should be ceded to Germany, unwilling to risk setting off a general war. This was an act of appeasement, for these countries knew that Hitler would go to war if they did not agree.
"Czechoslov^ia was a new state, which the allies of World War I had set up and promised to protect, but they didn't live up to their word. (Leckie 22). International leaders warned Czechoslov^ia that if it refused to accept the proposals to cede the
Sudeten areas, it would be impossible to gumantee the future existence of the country"
(Enderis). In this agreement, Hitler promised the leaders no more land grabs in Europe and guarmiteed the integrity of the rest of Czechoslov^ia with, of course, no intention of keeping his word (Mmichester 521). By October 10, 1938, Nazi troops occupied
Sudetenlmid and were welcomed by the Sudeten Germans (The History of the
Sudetenlmid picture, http://strandlab.com/graden/history.html- See Appendix B).
Germany then moved on to invade Poland in 1939, which began World Wm Two, and ultimately let to its defeat mid destruction in 1945. "In 1945, the overwhelming nature of the Nazi collapse proclaimed to the world that the time had come for a profound change in the conditions of Germans living outside Germany" (Luza 277). In May of
1945, after seven years under the Third Reich, Czechoslovak troops took possession of
Sudetenlmid, enforcing ruthless disciplinary measures upon the people. In 1945, Czech 9 president Dr. Edvard Benes returned from exile to Prague, and set up a new government, which passed the Benes Decrees laws, imposing unbelievable cruelties against the
Sudeten Germmis. "These laws were aimed at the Germans resulting in stating that whenever possible, the Germans have to be put in prison, work camps, or do slave labor for the Czechs" (Castell). These amnesty laws stated that Czech nationals committing a crime against the Germans were to be exempt from punishment; incredibly, these laws still exist today! On July 22, 1945, at the Three Power Conference, Czech government called for the immediate removal of the disloyal Sudeten Germmi population. Over
2,500,000 people were transferred out of the country, German sources have estimated that between 200,000 and 500,000 people lost their lives in the process. "Some homeless
Sudeten Germmis wound up in Austria, but the majority resettled in the war-torn Federal
Republic of Germmiy, where there was a shortage of housing everywhere"
(http://sudetengermans.freeyellow.com/).
It is obvious that the common people of both Sudetenland mid Czechoslov^ia became victims of wrong political decisions made both in the East and the West (Castell).
As the desire to reach closure to the Sudeten Germmi expulsion still lingers, there are two contrasting points of view—the Czech and the Sudeten German.
The Sudeten German position is that they morally and legally have a claim to their homeland, which was theirs for almost 1,000 years (Voigt). Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were tortured and murdered merely because they spoke German, ostensibly to revenge Germmi misdeeds which they did not commit
(http://sudetengermans.freeyellow.com/). The Sudeten Germmis believe that the Benes Decrees 10
still exist today, to punish them because of the atrocities committed by Hitler and his
army.
The Czech point of view is that it was necessary to expel the Sudeten Germmis to
maintain nationwide peace in Czechoslovakia. By trmisferring the Germans out of
Czechoslov^ia, general war was averted (Enderis). During the World War Two,
Czechoslov^ia had won general approval for the removal of her German minority.
"Except for the first few weeks of reprisal, the measure was t^en not as an act of
revenge but as an act of obligation in order to maintain the national existence and
safeguard the independence for the state, since Czechoslovakia was determined
that her experiences of the past should never happen again" (Luza 277).
"Even in London they say it is hopeless to try to keep within Czechoslovakia the Sudeten
Germans who find it intolerable to remain in the smne state with the Czechs" (Enderis).
"The transfer's alternative seemed to be fm worse: civil war, political chaos and chronic
insecurity in Central Europe" (Luza 321). As the last German-Czech dispute, the trmisfer
was a response to circumstances created by the Sudeten Germmis themselves and implicit
Nazi war regime (Leckie 35). In voluntarily handing the decision over their destiny to
Henlein and Hitler, the Germans of Czechoslovakia inevitably paved the road toward their bitter end (Luza 319). "The Benees Decrees were made to merely to defend the
Sudeten Germmis from further problems with the Czechs" (Luza 45).
Reporting Helga Massa's story illustrates only a small part of the dreadful acts
perpetrated in the course of expulsion. The transfer generated deep process of dislocation
of the Sudetens all over Central Europe. During this international readjustment between
1945 and 1947, the entire economic structure of the region passed through profound 11
changes. Meanwhile, the East-West struggle set forces in motion that led to communist takeover of Czechoslovakia in 1948 and the division of Germany into two sepmate states
(Luza 301). To this day, Czechs have denied the Sudeten Germmis an apology for the
illegality of confiscating their property and a return to their homeland
(http://sudetengermans.freeyellow.com/). 12
Interview Transcription
[Today is December 28, 2002, at 10:00 a.m., mid I, Fran Downey, am here with the wonderful Helga Massa, at her house in Silver Spring, Maryland, to talk about her past experiences as a Sudeten Germmi.]
Helga: Where I was bom? I was bom in Krumel, which is a southern part of
Czechoslov^ia. It was an old medieval town established in 1100.
Fran: So that was part of Sudetenland, or that wasn't? You lived in Prague right?
HM: No, I lived in, most of my time was in Aga, which was, this is also in
Czechoslov^ia. After the First World War, Czechoslovakia was established.
FD: Right.
HM: Which had never existed before. It used to be the Austrian-Hungarian kingdom.
FD: Yeah.
HM: We considered ourselves more Austrimi at first. Never really Germans.
FD: But you spoke Germmi?
HM: Well Austrian and German both speak German. 13
FD: When Czechoslovakia was made, did you...
HM: After the First World War, Czechoslovakia was established, because the Czech people wanted a country. And what's in this country: there were Germans, Hungarians,
Slovaks, and Czechs. There were quite a few other nationalities in this country.
FD: And, so overall they got along pretty well?
HM: Yes well, the Sudeten Germans lived mostly along the borders.. .while the inside of the country was 100% Czech.
FD: So there was no "declmed" Sudetenlmid?
HM: Sudetenland is that pmt where the Germans lived. The country, you know, looked like a boot.
FD: Yeah I have a picture right here.
HM: Ye^, see, well you have it right here. This pink is the Sudetenland.
FD: Yeah. 14
HD: And these areas are 100% populated by Germmis, who used to be Austrians.
FD: And you lived...
HM: And I lived, I was bom down here...
FD: You probably cant read it...
HM: In Krumel. It's now called Kruluv. It's down here somewhere. And I lived in
Aga, which is Asch was on the border mid Aga was just inside a little bit.
FD: What did your parents do?
HM: Well my father spoke Czech mid German equally good. And he worked for the government. He was first a high government official.
FD: In the Czech government?
HM: In the Czech government. And after Hitler came and took over, he became the mayor of the city, and was transferred to Pilsy, which is inside the country because he spoke Czech and German equally good. These were, mayors were not elected people like here. 15
FD: Oh. They were chosen.
HM: It was like a profession. My father studied for being in the city administration.. .and then you got the jobs. You applied for it.
FD: So did his occupation have an affect on your life?
HM: No.
FD: But your childhood growing up as a Sudeten German, was that different than...
HM: Well, no the early years were not because we were in the city where the official language was German, we had very little to do with the Czechs, but later on, frictions began to develop. The Germans wmited to be free and have their country. We had to leam Czech, we were under the Czech rule. And as fm as I know, we would have liked to have our own country.
FD: That's what they told you to think?
HM: Well, if you're in the minority, then you have limitations.. .in your business, in your profession, mid things began to deteriorate between the two. There were incidents...
FD: Do you remember any? 16
HM: I know this one time, in the evening; a shooting developed and they rounded up all the German men and sent them into the country. Among them was my father. He was imprisoned for no reason at all. Just because he was German.
FD: Was that because of the Benes Decrees?
HM: The Benes Decrees?
FD: They were laws that were put out that ironically still exist today?
HM: Yeah.
FD: Which are in the Czech Republic. I read that there is still an unbelievable amount of cruelty imposed today?
HM: Very much so.
FD: What have you heard about this? How it exists today. How do you think we should deal with that?
HM: Well you know when there's a war situation there's always cmelty. 17
FD: Yeah it's so sad that it's still here.
HM: And terrible, the worst things which happened to the Sudeten Germmis was really at the end of World Wm II, in 1945 when they were expelled. I mean, there were horrible things happening to my family, to my grandpments, to my aunt and uncle.
FD: What were your feelings about the rise of Hitler and the Nazi Party? I mean you were young...
HM: I was young. The feelings the Germans had were that we wanted to be liberated.
We wmited to be with the Germans.
FD: You wmited to be annexed right?
HM: We wanted to be annexed.
FD: So when Munich happened, you all were happy?
HM: Yes we were happy because finally we would be, part of Germany. We had never been part of Germany. And so when Hitler cmne, the Sudeten Germmis were happy.
FD: So how did your life change during the rise of Hitler after Munich? HM: Well when the Germans came in, we realized that they sometimes acted very bad.
FD: Do you think Hitler used Munich as an excuse sometimes?
HM: Well they were domineering, and acting as the victorious people and made a lot of terrible things happen: the expulsion of the Jews, Kristalnacht, if you remember that,
when they burned all the synagogues, if you remember that.
FD: But over all it was a positive? You all liked the Nazi Party? Well because I read that
in Sudetenland that the National Socialist Party was huge. Everybody participated.
HM: Well you had to! You had no choice.
FD: Were you involved in the Nazi Party?
HM: No. We were all members of the Party, but I was not active.
FD: How did World War U affect you personally? Hearing about the wm all the time...
HM: Heming? I was feeling it! We were bombed all the time. You see, the Russians
came from the east and the Americmis and the French and the British came from the
west. 19
FD: Yeah you were right in the middle.
HM: And we never knew who would come. Of coarse, we preferred the Americans to come because we heard terrible things about the Russians. And my last two years in high school, we practically had school underground.
FD: You went to an all-German high school?
HM: Well there was only one high school. We were fortunate that we had an old castle which had a lot of wine cellars, which had several stories, mid that's where our instructors. Uh first we stayed in the school and we had to sleep in the school because of air raids mid we were supposed to put out the fires to protect the school.
FD: Wow.
HM: And then it got so bad that we had to have classes underground. We were actually, most of the nights were underground, and then even during the day, the air raids were very bad. In 1938, they occupied the country, and then was the world wm, until 1945.
FD: Right I'm back on track. 20
HM: So, we lived in Pilson, which was inside the country, which was I would say 45%
Czech mid 25% German spewing. We had a German high school. We were only about
six girls and about twelve boys.
FD: You were outnumbered. [Laugh]
HM: And when the boys were sixteen, they had to join the labor camp, to support the
German mmy. The jobs the men couldn't do anymore because they had to go to war, to the front to fight.
FD: Do you remember anything about the Henlein Party?
HM: Henlein!
FD: Henlein!
HM: Henlein was the leader of the Sudeten Germans. Every community has a leader.
Henlein was ours. He was the leader of the Sudeten Germans. We were looking for
freedom.
FD: Did you ever see him?
HM: Yes. 21
FD: WeU towards the end of the war did you know that you would be transferred?
HM: What happened in that time was, towards the end of the war when things got really bad, they rounded up all the German men. And we never knew where they took them.
Among them was my father. Most of the people were bombed out.
FD: And killed?
HM: A lot of them were killed. A lot of them. And were sent to a refugee camps and from there, were told we were to leave the country within twenty-four hours.
FD: And you had to leave all your...
HM: Oh everything!
FD: How were you treated by the Czechs?
HM: Well you see, we were already out of the city, and when we hemd we had to leave, we just packed up. My mother, didn't know where my father was and my twin brother, was in the army.
FD: And did you have any younger siblings? 22
HM: And I had my brother and sister, at that time they were six and four yems old. And
a lot of people committed suicide. And my mother, sort of said, "I don't want to live
anymore," which, I prevented her from doing anything because I said, "look at the kids
you know? You have to go on." So we packed up and we were on the road for almost two months.
FD: And then you went into Germany?
HM: Tried to get across the border. And we finally did find a farm, where we stayed.
See you couldn't stay anywhere because there was a curfew. Nobody went out on the
street after.. .well I don't exactly remember the time, seven o'clock. And you didn't have
a place to stay.. .so sometimes, as we moved on, you couldn't stay in a place more than twenty-four hours because you had thousands of people on the road. There was no room.
FD: You traveled with other people?
HM: We traveled with other people who were in the same situation like we were. And it
was all on foot. And that was all we had.
FD: So where did you stay? 23
HM: Well we stayed in stables, we stayed in prisons, we ask sometimes knocking at
doors: people would just open their house, some already were filled up. And, we found a
place in the woods. The lumberjacks used to live there when they had work in this area.
And we stayed there for two weeks I remember, but we had no food. So we just collected
mushrooms in the woods, berries, we caught fish, and we went to the fmms and asked for
potatoes. We carried two big loaves of bread, which we rationed: once slice of bread a
day you know. And then sometimes we went to a farm and asked for milk, if we got
maybe some milk. But it was pretty bad. There was another family with us. There was
my brother, and sister, myself, and there was a fmnily they had a grandmother and a
mother, and two children.
FD: Were they your age?
HM: Uh, a little younger.
FD: So you were the oldest.
HM: I was the oldest and I think I was the one with the drive, you know.. ..to go on. And
you asked where we stayed; they had opened up the schools as camps. They put straw on the floor and we would sleep in there mid boy, did we get lice. And all kids of...
FD: So where did you clean? 24
HM: Haha, we didn't.
FD: Oh man.
HM: If I tell you the dress I had on, I think I had it on for three months. And I had shoes, they were similm like these, but they had nails on them from hiking shoes you know.
And I wore them through. I mean that's how hmd it was.
FD: When you say you got across the border, was it heavily guarded?
HM: It was guarded, yes, but there was a farmer who let us through during the night.
And, finally, we reached the other side. It was very emotional. You can only do so many
miles a day.
FD: Wow.
HM: We couldn't have any belongings. Of course, in other areas they ship them out in, those wagons they have on the fmm, where they put the hay on, they put people on there.
Um, I know my grandparents were put on trucks and shipped out. And they had
separated sometimes the husbands from the wives, and old people. And they did awful things to them: throwing their eyeglasses away, beating them, and just treating them
badly. 25
FD: When you arrived in West Germany, it was the Federal Republic that you stayed in right?
HM: Well, no, it was the western part. My grandparents landed in the eastern pmt and all my relatives, under the Russimis. So it was utterly chaos.
FD: So how were you treated?
HM: The cities were bombed out! The people didn't have any houses. The thousands of people coming, there were refugees already before we came, who ran away from the
Russians. And we had those in our house before the end of the war, because they ran away from the Russians and we had, I don't know, two or three fmnilies in our house.
FD: Now did the Russians have control over Czechoslovakia?
HM: Ye^. But, I remember when we first came out of Czechoslovakia, Eisenhower was in charge then. And I don't know if it's true, but he said, "I didn't know there were so many Germans." It was just unbelievable.
FD: Wow. [Laugh] So then what city did you settle in, in Germany?
HM: Okay, we cmne to a small town called Schelving, it's on the dag view. It's nem
Raidensburg. Are you familiar with Raidensburg? FD: Tve heard of it.
HM: The Red Cross had distributed places out; you know where you can stay. Every farmer had to take somebody. Every family who could, had to t^e some people in. So, we ended up on a fmm, and we got a little room, which was about the size of this dining room.
FD: Just this room?
HM: Just this room. And there was an outhouse. And my mother in lived there for four years.
FD: Did you live with her for four years?
HM: Well first I lived with her. And I had, sort of finished high school, and there was absolutely nothing.
FD: No college.
HM: No. I mean, first of all, there was no money, there was not much food, any of coarse, no industry, no jobs. And I happened to meet a family, how did I meet them?
She was the wife of a medical doctor, who was very ill with Tuberculosis, in a 27
sanitarium. And she had miother medical docter taking over the practice, in the office.
And, she asked me, if I would stay in her place and take care of the children, while she
was helping in the office.
FD: And you did?
HM: Haha, yes I did! Because I got a room. And we became very good friends, and she
opened up the cupboard mid she gave me clothes, and her husbmid died from TB later on.
And how was this? The doctor who took over was put into prison.
FD: There must have been a lot of people imprisoned.
HM: Well, we never knew where my father was, until two years later. We found out that they had shipped him out to the country, to Jorhimstan, where they mined uranium. And they put all the prisoners in the uranium mines to work. And they were very badly, treated. Most of them died. My father made it through; he was ten years in there. And,
as I said for the longest time we didn't know were he was. My twin brother was in the
army, head of the mmy. And he was taken prisoner under the Americans, which was
very fortunate. He was in the prisoner of war camp under the Americans until they
dissolved the camp. We didn't know where he was; he didn't know where we were. And
people would literally write on house walls, on shop windows: have you seen so mid so,
where is so and so. And some families found each other like this. And the Red Cross tried very hmd to make a list of people, because families were just scattered. You know. children lost their parents. We didn't know where my grandmother was; we didn't know where my grandfather was for the longest time. Sometimes it was sheer accident that you meet somebody and said, "oh I have seen so and so." How it came about was my brother. He worked on the road, when they started rebuilding the roads. Because everything was bombed.
FD: In Germany?
HM: Ye^, in Germany. Well outside Czechoslovakia, but along the borders there, where most of the Sudeten Germans were in the beginning.
FD: So he was back in Sudetenlmid?
HM: What do you mean?
FD: Well the Czechs took over that part, I thought.
HM: Ye^, well there were no Germans in Czechoslovakia then after the war, we were all thrown out.
FD: Right, but why was your brother there then?
HM: No he wasn't there. 29
FD: Oh, alright sorry.
HM: He was prisoner of the Americans mid then they dissolved the camps. Then he
worked on the road mid somebody saw him! I mean he worked on the road, maybe like
from here (Silver Spring) to Charlottesville you know that distance. Somebody saw him!
And we got word that my brother is in this place.
FD: That's exciting.
HM: Well, it chokes you up you know? And then, he joined us too. And I stayed with that doctor's family for two years. And my mother mid the widow became good friends,
and we still are. And then, somebody had a friend in Englmid.. ..Do you want to hear this?
FD: No. I'm interested in hearing this.
HM: I mean, you don't need this for your papers.
FD: No it doesn't matter.
HM: But you had all kinds of questions. 30
FD: Oh, well all right. / read that to this day the Sudeten Germans are denied an apology by the Czechs for their treatment and for their expulsion, and I was wondering, why are relations so...
HM: I understand from what I hear now, that the Czechs still hate the Germmis.
¥'D:Butwhy?
HM: I don't know! And as a matter of fact, they hate them more now than before. This is some kind of a national feeling, I don't know. We had lived in this part of the country hundreds mid hundreds of years back.
FD: Before them right?
HM: Yes! And whether they blmne the Germans for what? I don't know.
FD: Are the Germans like that towards the Czechs too?
HM: Well you see now there aren't any Germans in there. I only know that when they opened up the Iron Curtain, I wanted to go back and see what happened to my homeland, what happened to the house where I lived. You know you have this desire to see what happened. Where you spent all your youth, your school years in a place, I wanted to see what happened. And I did go in. I went with my brother because he felt the smne way; 31
it's my twin brother you know we went to school together there. We went in there right
after the Iron Curtain had opened up and they opened the borders. Then we went in, and
we wanted to see the documents of our baptism in the church. We wanted to see where
we were bom. I never went to the town where I was bom while I was living there
because my parents moved away and they never got the chance to go there. And we did,
and in the beginning it was fine, with the Czech people, they were pretty nice to us, and
we told them that we were bom there and they were willing to show us everything. But then, yems later I said to my sister, "I would like to go in," mid she said, "don't go! They
hate us."
FD: So when you were there they didn't treat you badly?
HM: Well we were there as tourists. Most people didn't know who we were. But when
we went to the office, they were willing to show us the baptism papers and things. I
mean, there were no hostilities. The people themselves were so poor. The country was
so run down, you wouldn't believe it. When was it when they pulled back the Iron
Curtain? In the 80's?
FD: Yeah.
HM: From 1945 to that time, absolutely nothing happened. The towns were all decayed.
It was awful. The pollution was terrible. The forests, you could see the damage of the
pollution. The factories weren't updated. This is Russia! This was under the 32
Communists who hadn't done anything, just like Russia. They hadn't updated, upgraded anything.
FD: Was it settled?
HM: You know who moved in? The Gypsies. There were a lot of Gypsies down in
Hungary, and here was all this land, empty. Three million people lived there, this was a lot of population. And the house was just falling apmt. It was still there. Then they started rebuilding because Czechoslovakia is a treasure of medieval towns and the history is unbelievable! The first university ever erected was in Prague, out of King Charles.
FD: Is it still there?
HM: Ye^, but it's... And of coarse now, the German influence was always very great, but when you probably read now, the Czechs probably claim all the accomplishments.
So now their tourism is their great income, they realized that from the beginning so they had to do something. They had to build roads. The hotels were unbelievable, you know, rundown, the bathrooms were down the hall. You can't have tourists come to your country unless you can offer them accommodations. So it was very interesting to see how quickly they chmiged things, but not until the Communism ended.
FD: So today they call this the "Sudeten German question" and no one really knows how to deal with this. How do you think this should be dealt with? 33
HM: Well, you see, when you are displaced, you always wmit to go back, some
repmations. However, I left. I didn't want to get involved.
FD: You didn't wmit to go back?
HM: No. But I know that Sudeten Germans were united asking for repmations. Some of them even said, 'Sve wmit our homeland back." This is, I think, a normal feeling when
you have lost your homeland. You want it back. But now I think a new generation grew
up mid they haven't found any connection. Probably some of them still have, but a lot of them even left the country. I was one of them.
FD: But the new generations are still being discriminated against?
HM: Oh yeah! Well even the Germans against the Germans! We considered ourselves
Germans, but when we became refugees, the Germans didn't like the refugees.
FD: Oh.
HM: And I'll tell you an incident here. I was in JCPennys. They had a sale. And I was
around the table looking at the sheets, and there were these three women mid they spoke
German. And so I opened my mouth mid I said, "oh you me Germmis." And they said,
"oh yeah. Where are you from?" And I told them I was a Sudeten German. "Oh you're 34 one of those refugees!" Immediately they were like, we don't want you. Can you imagine?
FD: Oh man, and they were German?
HM: They were Germmis! They didn't like the refugees, the Germmi refugees. But you know, the Americans would do exactly the same thing. Just what did they do to the old people when they left the Dust Bowl and went to California? I mean, the Grapes of
Wrath.
FD: So what about the other Sudeten Germans, where did they go?
HM: Well, you know, they stayed together and they are still trying to get back to their old country, but it's impossible.
FD: So did you ever have a time in your life when you really wanted to get back?
HM: I mean, I remember my youth. I recall the wonderful times we had, but I have no desire to go back. Not the way it is now. And sometimes I feel I wish I hadn't gone back because the way I remembered is different from what I saw after.
FD: When did you go back? 35
HM: Well as soon as they opened it, I remember in the early 80s. As a child, the
distances were so great. To get to my grmidfather's house it was a day's trip on the train,
you had to chmige a couple of times on the train. Now we wisp through it, two or three
hours in the cm, you know? The distances became so short, and I was able to see
everything I wanted to see in two or three days and the places I wanted to visit. And that's what I did with my brother, we went in and the conditions were so bad right at the
beginning, we had to be cmeful where we could tank the cme.
FD: Oh.
HM: And the streets were all just narrow streets, and there was so much pollution. Those
cars, they were polluting! If you had just a few cars it was just terrible. Everything was just left like it was in 1945, can you imagine?
FD: No, I cant.
HM: And at that time, nobody had cars!
FD: Yeah, whoa.
HM: It was just like going back almost a century.
FD: Yeah, but it seems like in a bad way, seeing all the bad aspects of it. 36
HM: So I never had the desire to go back and to live there. I would never; I think in a
way, it's better like this. This is the problem with all the Balkan States, you know? You
have the different people me still, there are cliques, they stick together. You see, it's
different in the United States. You have the people come here mid they mix and they
become one.
FD: Yeah.
HM: In Europe you still have the different languages, mid the different customs, and
everybody thinks they me the ones who have the right. And that's why they have all these wars.
FD: But you do think you should have the right to go back to your homeland?
HM: Well I should have the right and I should have been compensated, at least. But then
when I look, see that's the way I think. What did we do the Indians here? We took their
land.
FD: Yeah, it happens everywhere.
HM: It happens everywhere. What happens now in the Middle East? You know, they
displaced people, but you have to give them something, in that place. The Palestinians 37 didn't get anything. They still don't have a state and that is why this hatred is getting worse and worse. But that didn't answer your question.
FD: Well I don't think there is mi answer; honestly no one knows how to deal with this problem. I was reading the articles in my resemch, I just thought I would ask you because there are so many articles today that focus on this, mid most people are just saying to "let it go".
HM: Well, you find different articles. It doesn't do any good to keep on going. It won't make miy difference. It has been too long. It is a whole generation. And the next generation has made a life somewhere else.
FD: Where are most of them today?
HM: In Germany. Some of them went to South America, some went to the United
States, but the percentage going to the United States was very small. Most of them stayed in Germmiy. We were scattered all over. And now we still have class reunions.
FD: Have you been to any?
HM: Well I was always invited. As a matter of fact, a lot of them have died, but I have a couple of friends in the mea. We walked in the street with my girlfriends, like your age.
And we had an air raid and we had this problem where we couldn't get into the shelter 38 and I lost them. After the air raid, we got out of the shelter and we were running in the streets. And the planes would come mid shoot at the people. I don't know if they were
American plmies or British planes, but it was awful. You know, I don't want to see another war. If there would be another wm it's even worse now.
FD: Yeah I know. I can't even imagine.
HM: I am very anti-war. I'm very liberal. And you leam how to get along with all kinds of people. You have learned this. And this is so difficult because people always say, why do you Europeans always m^e war. They don't understand that it is so different from this country.
FD: So I'm guessing you aren't a Bush fan.
HM: No. He is making a mess.
FD: I know. Well thanks so much for this, I mn very lucky to have had this opportunity.. .(tape turns off) 39
Historical Analysis The Tmportance ofTTelga Massa's story
Oral history is the collection of spoken memories through interviews and
storytelling. It is important because it allows one to leam about the perspectives of
individuals who might not otherwise appear in mi historical record. While newspaper
articles, speeches, and government documents may expose noteworthy information on a time period, these sources often overlook the more personal and private experiences.
Historimi Donald Ritchie said, "through oral history, interviewees have a chance to
pmticipate in the creation of the historical retelling of their lives" (Ritchie 6). Some of the best stories have been passed along in spoken form from generation to generation;
after all, "all history was at first oral" (Ritchie 6). In studying oral history, one is able to
leam how the person's story fits into the whole of history and determine its historical
value. Reporting Helga Massa's story illustrates only a small part of the dreadful acts
perpetrated in the course of the expulsion of the Sudeten Germans, which is a largely an
untold aspect of history and is still controversial today.
In the interview, Helga began by spewing about her life in Czechoslovakia before
World War Two, focusing on the rise of Hitler and the German occupation of
Sudetenlmid in 1938. Growing up as a Sudeten German, her childhood was very normal
until frictions began to develop with the Czechs when the Germans begmi to express a
desire to be annexed to Germmiy. She discussed her pmticipation in the Henlein Pmly
(Nazi Party), which led to the Munich agreement, whereby the Nazis occupied the
country until 1945. The main focus of the interview was the period immediately after World War
Two. Helga told her experience of being expelled by the Czechs from her home and the
aftermath of that event. She recounted her journey into East Germmiy, after traveling two
months with her family. Helga remembered starting with only a one-room house, with
very little food and no money. She witnessed many of her relatives being mistreated by the Czechs. Her father was shipped out of the country to a work camp simply because he
was German (Downey 19). Helga also talked about the changes in the deteriorating
Czech-German relations.
The value of this interview with Helga Massa is in hearing a personal account of the expulsion from the Sudeten German perspective. Helga sympathized with German
point of view. She gave an interesting overview about the ill treatments of thousands of
Germans mid was able to describe both the Czech and German points of view. Early in
her childhood, her natural beliefs already contrasted with the Czechs, when she
remembered feeling that the Germans wanted to be liberated from Czechoslovakia
(Downey 19). Helga said, "my feeling is normal, I mean, we wmited to be with our
homeland" (Downey 36). She believed that the Czechs had no reason to expel the
Sudeten Germmis. She talked about her father, who was forced to work in the coalmines,
"he was imprisoned for no reason at all" (Downey 19). Hundreds of thousands of
innocent civilimis were tortured and murdered merely because they spoke German,
ostensibly to revenge Germmi misdeeds which they did not commit
(http://sudetengermans.freeyellow.com/).
Unlike many Sudeten Germans, who believe they have a right to return to their
homeland, Helga believes that it is impossible that Sudetenland can be returned to the 41
Germans. "It happens everywhere. What happens now in the Middle East? You know, they displaced people, but you have to give them something, in that place. They still
don't have a state mid that is why this hatred is getting worse and worse. That is why I
have moved on." (Downey 39). Observing what has happened to thousands of other
peoples, for example in the Balkan states, Helga realizes that what happened to her,
happens so frequently now. "Well I should have the right and I should have been
compensated, at least. But then when I look, see that's the way I think. What did we do to the Indians here? We took their Imid" (Downey 39). "Well, when you are displaced,
you always want to go back, some reparations. However, I didn't want to get involved"
(Downey 36). "They are still trying to get back to their old country, but it's impossible"
(Downey 42). "It doesn't do any good to keep on going. It won't make a difference. It
has been too long" (Downey 39).
She agreed with the Czech point of view that things are better now with the
Sudeten Germmis not living in Czechoslovakia. "I think it is better like this. This is the
problem with the Balkan States. You have the different people are still, there me cliques they stick together" (Downey 39). "They say it is hopeless to try to keep within
Czechoslov^ia. The Sudeten Germans find it intolerable to remain in the same state
with the Czechs" (Enderis). So, in a way, the transfer did avoid a general war that could
possibly still be going on today between these two ethnic groups. "Czechs argue that the transfer of the disloyal majority as a necessary measure of protection from possible civil
war, not from punishment" (Voigt). She mentions how there is still tension today
between the two groups. "I understand from what I hem now that the Czechs still hate 42 the Germans. I don't know why! And as a matter of fact, they hate them more now than
before" (Downey 32).
I am very grateful to have chosen Helga Massa as my interviewee. For the first time, I was able to talk to someone nemly three times my age as an "adult". However, I
was forced out of my comfort zone at times. It was a gratifying experience for both
Helga and I. Discussing oral history is a valuable skill, for everyone has a valuable story to tell. Although it was hard to get used to hearing my voice on tape, it was frustrating at times. I learned that the key to becoming a good oral historimi is by being a good
conversationalist; this skill being necessary in life. 43
Appendix A Maps of Sudetenland
^^^/^-'^VpE R M AN Y^
/ .PRAGUE V^^-^ POLAND I^aoHEW.IA O^-^-^ 'feh ^^
—
AUSTRIA L ^I^UNGARY^^™ ii SUDETENLAND'Czach "eir |-.iryKSded TO- • Hj^rrcunv aiMunidi, 5^p:b:^:L^r 30,1Q3B
czachTarnrorvGivan to Hungary Dy Germar^ riiweiiiri&i i. 193B jrri 11^1/ al Vienna, Odobera. 1935
1 l^|I|II|U 44
Appendix B 45
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Enderis, Guido. "Hitler Ready to Demand Terrirory of Czechs for Hungmy mid Polmid." Editorial. The New York Times 21 Sept. 1938: 1, 3.
Hamilton, Thomas J. "700,000 More Sudetens to Be Sent Into Russian Sector in Germany." Editorial. The New York Times 26 July 1946: 3.
History of the Sudetenland. 4 Dec. 2002.
Korbel, Josef. Twentieth-Century Czechoslovakia: The Memiings of Its History. New York: Columbia University Press, 1977.
Leckie, Robert. The Story of World Wm II. New York: Random House, 1964.
Luza, Radomir. The Transfer of the Sudeten Germans: A study of Czech-German Relations, 1933-1962. New York: New York University Press, 1964.
Mmichester, Willimn. The Anns of Crupp. Canada: Little, Brown And Compmiy, 1964.
Munich Pact Septermber 29. 1938. The Avalon Project at Yale Law School. 10 Dec. 2002.
Ritchie, Donald. Doing Oral History. New York: Twayne Publishers, 1995.
Sulzberger, C. L. The American Heritage Picture History of World War II. USA: Crown Publishers Inc, 1966.
The History Place. The History Place, World Wm II In Europe (Timeline with Photos mid Text). Copyright 1966-2002. 2 Dec. 2002.
The History of the Sudetenland. 3 Dec. 2002.
The Sudeten Germans!! (Who are thev?)- 3 Dec.2002.
Toland, John. Adolf Hitler. New York: Doubleday & Company, 1976.