University of Texas at El Paso ScholarWorks@UTEP

Combined Interviews Institute of Oral History

2-24-1966

Interview no. 56

Mrs. C. C. Chase

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Recommended Citation Interview with Mrs. C. C. Chase by Leon C. Metz, 1966, "Interview no. 56," Institute of Oral History, University of Texas at El Paso.

This Article is brought to you for free and open access by the Institute of Oral History at ScholarWorks@UTEP. It has been accepted for inclusion in Combined Interviews by an authorized administrator of ScholarWorks@UTEP. For more information, please contact [email protected]. UNIVERSITYOFTEXAS AT EL PASO INSTITUTEOFORAL HISTONY

IiiITERVIEIdEE: Mrs. C. C. Chase

IIITERVIE',IER: LeonC. Metz

PIiOJECT: El PasoArea Histor .1966 DirTE0F I|'ITERVIEII: -Februgrv 2$. -. , TERIJISOF USE:

TAPENO.: TRANSCRIPT!'iO.: TRAIISCRIBER: DATETRA|'ISCRIBED:

BIOGRAPHICALSYIIOPSISOF INTERVIEI'IEE:

Daughterof Albert BaconFall.

suttf{AIIYot ttutuqvlEl'f:

andpersonal'ities of early 20thCenturyE1 Pasoand Las Cruces' Incidents and personafity includingPat Gamett, Bi'l1ythe Kid' CaptainGreet; ind the careen of her father,recollections of her mother'

I hour (l 7/B tape sPeed);31 Pages IV|rs.C. C. Chase by LeonC. Metz February24, 1966

C: We11,what were we talking aboutlast?

M: lllell, we talked main'lyabout some of your experiencesin the Southwestand NewMexico and down jnto Old l{exico,and your father and so on. Just a ljttle bjt of everything. Almost.

trjhatI'd like to talk aboutmore is mymother. We11,let's hearsome about your mother. All the writers of history in the wild andwooly hlest have neglected ent'ire'ly to mentionthe fact that womenwere out here, too, and that there wereplenty

of 1ovely,refined homes.l^le weren't all wearjngtwo guns,riding horseback throughthe desertand the mountainshunting somebody to shootat. Oneof the oldest charactersthat I haveknolvn out herewas lirs. FrankCoe.

M: Wasshe the wife of oneof the Coebrothers?

C: Yes. Shewas one of the mostrefined, lovely womenI ever knew. Andthe first thing shedid whenshe married and came out herewas to gatherpeople togetherfor a Sundayschool . Therewas no church,no rel igjous poss'ib'i1ity

for any of themto get to, so she hadthem come and sing songsin the open.

M: Wherewas th'i s at, Mrs. Chase? 0ver at Glencoe.She andherchildren bu'ilt a 1ove1y'ljttle chapelin Glencoe, a rock chapel, and they had serv'icesthere everyweek.

M: Is it still standing?

C: Still standing,yes. Andwhen she got the peopletogether to sing songswhen there waspractically nothinghere at home--itwas bare--the cowboys would drift in fromdifferent parts so that she hada wholegang around on Sundays. Later on her husbandhad pjcked up qujte a bit of moneywith his cattle and Chase

so on. Hewas making a trip to El Pasoto bring backsome of the things

that they needed,and he askedher whatshe wanted. Hesaid, "I have enoughnow to buy somefurniture. Just whatwould you like to have?" And

shesaid, "Well, childrencould grow up wjth a pianoand the furniture wouldn'tdo themany good." So he broughta grandp"iano out to her--one of thosegreat big things. It sat jn the bareparlor w'itha tarpaulinover it exceptwhen she'd haveher singerscome in. Andalways she was a digni- fied, 1ovelywoman; you couldnrtbe with her that you didn't feel better. Nowthat wasone of the original Westernwomen that I knew--thatis, women that happenedto be in the West.

M: Aboutwhen was that, Mrs. Chase? 0h, well, it wasbefore the time of Bi11ythe Kid. 0f course,they thought Bi11ythe Kid wasjust all right, as everybodyelse did here. AndPat

Gamettmade himself very unwelcomein LjncolnCounty by his killing Bi11y the Kjd, particularly as he did--hjs silhouettein the wjndowwith the moon- light shiningon it andGarrett came to the doorand just shot throughit.

So he hadto leave and go over to Las Cruces. Andin Las Crucesthere were someof the loveliest homesand peop'le. Theydon't stop to considerthat NewMex'ico as a territory wasgoverned more or less by Washingtonand the officers of the law andeverything else that we hadout here, the people wereappojnted by the Presjdentthrough the UnitedStates and they were usuallyof the uppercrust of soc'iety. Theywere sons and daughters of someprominent senator or somebodythat hadmade a namefor himself in the East. Nowthose are the peoplethat real1yamounted to something.0f course,you got a desertspot, and jt wasalso a very goodplace for men whocommitted crimes'in the easternpart of the UnitedStates to comeand Chase

hide, becausewe had plenty of hiding places in the mountains. And since

I tal ked to you the other day, Mr. McGawsent,by my son, a book that he

had just gotten from Mr. lrl. l,rl.Hutchjnson, DeanRhodes editor executor,

that was the manwhowrote it. The title of it wasAnother Verdict for

0l iver Lee.

M: 0h, I sawthat. I havea copy of it.

C: You have? We1l, I couldn't go on with it very well I couldn't quite catchwho was saying what.

M: I couldn't either, to tell you the truth.

C: hlell, I guesshe's got his sty'le. Well, that's whereMr. Rhodes... Some-

bodywas telling my-father...CharlieBassett jn El Pasotold Daddyonce,

he said, "Youknow, I readalI of [1r. Rhodes'works,but I can't keepup with hjm. He's hardto follow." AndDaddy remarked that he wroteas he rode. He'dgo alonga centainpath and see somethingmove across the way

andhe'd run to investigate,and he'd ride rjght on off,and he'd bring in that whenit wasn'treally kin to the rest of his story at all. Andthat

/is whaf, I thoughtwhen I read that book. "0h, he's gottenMr. Rhodes' sty'le--meanderinga whol e /1oV ." I knewEugene Cunningham very we1l, and I couldn't follow the quota- tions. I d'idn't knowwhether it wasEugene Cunningham talking or who. But

THutcninson7refered to the statementjn the bookabout l,.l.l,.J. Cox. I told that EugeneCunningham a little of the story of I{r. Cox,and I could see that it waswritten'in this book,but not substantial'ly. Itlr. Coxwas one of the charactersof the West. Hewas very quiet'in his talk andmanner, and I don't think I ever heardhjm laugh; but he hadmore humor than anyone I ever knew. Onething that tickled mevery muchwas when my father bought Chase

his first car out hereand it wasone of the very few. It wasonly the 47th

car jn Texaswhen he got it out here. Andhe wentby andpicked up Mr. Cox

at the ranch. Youknow where the Coxranch was; jt's wherethe missjle groundis now,right up againstthe OrganMountains. TI: Whatwas Mr. Cox'sfirst name?

C: WelI , it wasjust W.l^J., B jl I Cox. Andhe hada bunchof children that are aroundhere now. There'sone that is namedfor myfather, Albert Cox,and

Hal, andlF-e ha{ a wholebunch of them. Mr. Coxhad a governessor a teach- er on the placeall the time anda regularschool for his children. I at- tendedit whenI wasa youngster. Peopledidn't knowanything much about

himexcept someone like myfather, whotook care of his business. Andhe didn't havevery muchbusiness, he just ran everythingaround hlm, wjth no

k'i1I i ngson his hands. He'd beenaccusedof harboring,and he did--0liver Leebecame his bnother-in-law.

He'dride'in at night whenPat Garrettwas... Well, he andGilliland knewthat they'd nevercome into the townof Las Crucesalive'if they sur- renderedto Pat Garrett and his noose. So they playedit safe andwent aroundfor twoyears hiding out or stopp'ingin a placeI ike ours. They'd comein at night, go to bed,and go on andattend to their busjness. And the Cox'sp1ace, it wasa very big placeand there wasnobody anywhere near t't. Heowned one place that I think Hal Coxljves in now,that they call the Pump.Then down at the point of the mountainswas Globe Springs

that someof the Rhodesfami'ly had.

And the history of Coxas he told it to my father wasthat he camestart-

ing Westfrom Tennesseewith hr's fami'ly or part of his family andanother

coveredwagon, a load of people. And they got to feudingalong the way, Chase

the twooutfjts. By the time they got to SanAntonio theyrd killed off one or two. Andwhen they got to SanAntonio, they campedoutside of the town

beforegoing jn, the last remainingmembers of both the families, andthey hadtheir last fight there. Mr. Coxwas a boyof aboutseventeen at the time and he wasone of the only remajningpersons in that feud. Theyarrest- ed him, the SanAntonio officers; he wastrjed andfound guilty of murder andsentenced to be hung. Andthe word"statute" or whateverit is...

M: Statuteof I imitations?

C: Well, that wordin his indictmentor someth'ingabout the casewas not cros- sedand that held themup. Theyhad to haveanother trial andcross that

"t". They1et'it drift anddrift andhe stayedon in jail andwas a trustee. Heworked and savedhis money.And one of the menin jail w'ithhim--they got to be rather chummy...At one time the authorities cameto SanAntonio--

the wholestate groupto inspectbujldings--they went down to inspectthe

jai1. This boy andMr. Coxlocked them in a cell; they werefree to roam around. Andthey lockedthem up in a cell, wentto townand hada big time, cameback and released the officers and1et themgo. Finallyit hadgone on

until he'd beenin jail for sevenyears. Hestudied all the time that he wasthere--read what he could. Hewrote to a lawyerthat he knewwas a good one, andthey filed suit for the jail itself--for the ownershipof the iail. Hehad been there for sevenyears without beingmolested, or no onetrying

to drive himout, andaccording to the Texas1aws, the iail washjs. That

upsetthe c'ivil'iansvery much. They1et himout ona bondlvvhi19 unuiting for the trial to comeup for himto possessthe jail. He skippedhis bond andcame West, started in andaccumulated this ranch. Thehome is a great big placebuilt aroundthe pat'io. It wasbuilt by an Eng'ljshcouple that Chase

hadone small boy; the boywas bjtten by a rattlesnakeand d'ied. Thepeople

didn't wantto stay hereany longer. Theywent back to England,but they

sold their ranchhome to Mr. Cox. Hegot jt for almostnothjng, and of

course,he built up a tremendousranch. Heand 0liver Leewound up just

owninglalnnst everythinfl from the 0rganMountains up to thesemountains.

M. Upto the Sacramentolvlountains?

C: Yes. Their cattle ran throughthe wholeoutfit.

M: Wherewas the ranchhouse located?

C: Well, that ranchhouse js nowoccupied by the army. It's a missile range

right againstthe 0rganMountains. One of thosepeaks is called TheNeedle becauseit hasa s1ope,just a plajn slopeup to a certa'inpoint andthen it

goesup to whereit stjcks out like a needle. Andof course,he ownedthe

GlobeSprings.and all thosewatering p'laces around there. Theone thing that alwaysstruck meas beingthe funniestth'ing that happenedwith Mr. Coxand my father, Daddytook h'is newcar, he hada chauf-

fer from NewYork, Lunil they went downthe SanAgustin Ranch|wfrat Cox's

ranch] wascalled, and pickedup Mr. Cox. /l-n"il cameacross over here to La Luz for somereason. Mr. Cox'sdescript'ion of that trip wasone of the

funniest that you could haveheard him lfel'il, with h'is solemnface--about

6oil they weregoing so fast that his hat flew off andwhen they cameback two dayslater it wasstill spinningin the air. Theold flats downthere werefull of gophers;it wascalled GopherTown part of the t'ime. He said, "Oneold grandpagopher that I've knownfor years trjed to get in his hole andhe got stuck. Hewas st'ill wagginghis tail try'ing to get out whenwe cameback. "

Everythjnghe sajd had somepojnt of humor. He was tel'ling my mother Chase

one that he hadcompleted bujlding a fireplace jn their bedroom.Mama sa'id,

"hlell, the point is, doesit draw?" Andhe said, 'rDraw?lllhy the o1d lady

hada set of eggsunder the bedand jt just drewthe nest, the hen,and the eggsa'l'l up the chimneyand she never say themagain." Thenhe hada cold

anda sore throat /oncd, and he askedthe old woman,as he called his wife, whatit wasthat Mrs. Fall said wasgood for a cold. Shesaid" "Well, it

wasbromo pellets or tablets." Andhe sa'id,"l,rlell, maybe we've got some." Theywent into the safe, the old fashionedkitchen safe, and lookingthrough

it he founda packagemarked "BB"--it wasfull of roundtablet-looking things. Hetold his wjfe, he said, "Thjs mustbe it. It's BromoButtons. That's whatshe told us." Heswallowed one, or tried to swallowit, and'it got stuck'in hjs throat. Hewhistled for a week. Fjnal'ly,he discoveredthat

/what he hadtried to swallowTwas bone buttons to replacehis overall buttons,

finicfr hadgotten lost. Andthat wasiust jn I ine with /F"jm7. Yet he was a tenderheartedthing. He soundedfierce at times, but he wasiust as tender- heartedas he couldbe. Herode fourteen miles to take a babycrowintoLas

Crucesto give it to a Mrs. Robertswho was a pet of everybodythere, a widow that hada millinery shop. Shejust took care of everybodythat cameby. He foundthis nest that wasdeserted--well, the motherwas dead. Somebodyhad shot her, but this onelittle crowwas left. He broughtthat crowinto Mrs. Roberts. Hebroke his arm, Mr. Cox. Andthe stories he told abouthow he broke that armyou couldn't concejveof. Andwhen Gene Rhodes broke his leg and wasmissing for a day, his horsewent back to the ranch. Andthey all set out to look for Mr. Rhodes.And they cameto the SanAgustin Ranchto Mr. Coxto get himto help hunt for hjm. Mr. Coxsaid, "Well, takeyour boys." Chase

WayenBrassel was one of them--WayneBrassel, who killed Garrett. He said,

"You'll find hjmunder a mesquitebush reading a nove1." Andthat's exactly

whatthey did--they foundhjm finally undera mesqujtebush--Gene Rhodes. Thecowboys and everybody was very muchconcerned because they couldn't find hjm, andof course,that's a great openstretch in there. That's where they foundhim two daysafter his horsewent jn. Hewas reading; he'd read andre-read. He rodealways with a bookin front of hjm. I'lr. eoxwas very muchinteiested jn the Lee-Gilliland trial . OiOI

te11 you whenyou were here before of Fir. Gilliland telfinq us what tlrev

djd the two years that they weneoutlawi?

M: I don't thi nk so.

C: Well, mysister and I wereat the ranchwith myfather; he wassick. It was

just three or four yearsbefore he died. Jim Gilliland andhis youngerbrother,

D'ick,rode across from Gil'liland's ranchon horsebackto see Dad.

M. Gilliland's ranchwas about where?

C: It wasjn the SanAndr6s Mountains. They had come just to call on Daddyand

werego'ing to ride horsebackall that wayback; but weinsisted that they spendthe night. AndI thoughtit wasvery fine of themto ride al1 that way

acrossto see Daddy. Mr Gilliland remarked,"fiil wasn'tvery far for us to ride to seea fellow that kept a noosefrom around our necks." Hewas not a very talkative manordinarily. Tremendousman--he was at least six feet six. After dinner thatrnight, DaddywdS, in bed,we gatheredin his roomand Gjlljland wouldbe remindedof somelittle something,and finally Daddygot hjmwound up andbade him along so that he wouldtell the things that mysister and I wouldljke to hear. Therehad been a bankrobbery in Tularosa. This

wasin the'30s, I guess,the latter part of'29. Andthey knewpretty Chase

well whodid the bankrobbery. It wasa cowboythat wasknown as kind of a

roughfellow, and they say he wasrecognized but peoplewere afraid to go

after hjm rjght away. F'inai1y,they workedup a posse andfollowed him andpract'ical1y caught up with him. r,^lhenthey got to the gateof the Gjll i- land ranch,the roadfrom thjs side of the mountainover to Socorro...well, Gill jland's ranchwas right on that road. Andhisdescr,i'ptionof events was, "Theya1'l knewwho that fellow wasand they chasedhim close enoughto catch him. Andwhen he got out andopened the gaten"he said, "that gatd is madeof two by eights." Mysister and I didn't knowwhat in the world he meantby

two by eights. Daddysaid, "Why,two by eight planks,two by eight." He sajd the mangot off his horse,unlatched the gate, wentthrough and chain-

ed it up agajnwith the posseshooting at him. He sa'id,"You know, the two by eights hada few shotson the other side of themwhjle the fellow was

locking the gate,upthis way. Doyou knowwhat would happen if Old Tom Tuckerhad been there?" Tuckerwas one of the friends of Leeand Gilliland. Hehad a bullet hole, just a nice roundhole throughthe flap of his ear

wheresomebody had taken a shot at hjm. He said, "0ld Tomwould have put that gunup, he'd haveswayed back and forth abouttwo timesand then it

wouldgo off andthis manwould go down." Hesaid, "Thjs fellow wasn't touchedand he didn't humy." He hadevidently seen h'im, and he maypossib'ly

havebeen in on the thing. "Whenthey tried to get throughthe fence they

couldn't do it; lThe possgTcouldn't unlatchthe gate. Theylost the man againand never did find him." Thenhe told of their wanderjngaround from placeto placeand what they

did to occupytheir time. He said, "Wetook care of our beardsand we bought us a bottle of Vigaro." Heturned to mysister and I andhe said, "Did you Chase t0

girls ever use Vigaroon your hajr? It sure is great stuff. It growshair any way." Hesaid, "0f course,I wastall and hardyso I let mybeard grow

down." Andhe said, "I clippedit up, V-shapein the middle--weonly had our kn'ivesto workwith whenwe shavedourselves," and of coursethat wasn'tso. He said Hogar,he waskind of punyand pale facedso he parted

his beardin the middle. Gilljland's /b-ear{ wasred andLee's was black and/hil brushedit out on the sides--helooked like oneof thesegentlemen that you see in pictures.

Hetold then of themgiving up. Daddyhad arranged with GovernorOtero that they wouldgive themselvesup to a judge, to a lawyeror a lawman.If

they coulddo that... They/wouldJ not give up to the possethat waschasing themall the time andthat they'd hada djsastrousmeeting with at Inljllie Wellsand....

M: l,rle11,they weregoing to give themselvesup to somebody. C: 0h, yes, he describedthat. Theywent into Eng1e,New Mex'ico--it's just a

statjon, you mightsay--and they werejojned there by GeneRhodes. And Rhodessajd, "WelI, boys, I'm goingwith you." Theywere on their way then to give themse'lvesup. It wasarranged that JudgeParker would meet

themat the station on this certain day. Andhe said, "Thefunnjest part of the wholething wasHogar djdn't wantto go in w'iththe hat he hadon. it waspretty dilapidatedand he borroweda derbyhat fromthe statjon man." Theygot on the train--Hogarwas ahead. Helooked in the mjrror, or the glass to the smokingroom (you knowthose old smokingrooms used to havean oval

glasson the s'ide)and he turnedaround and said, "Ah, ah, no roomin there for us." Helet themknow that Garrettand Captain Hughes were both in there. Andhe said, "Wesat ourselvesdown in different seatsabout the thinq and Chase ll

lookedas jnnocentas possible." He said there wasa newsboyon /board/ andr

"l,rleal1 got newspapersand held them up before our face whenwe satnror heard

anybodycoming down the aisle." He sajd, "Twice I peekedout of the corner

of my paper as Garrett stoppedat the newsstandand surveyedthe rest of

the car from there. I wasjust expectingevery minute he'd st'ick a gun'in

my stomach.. . " WelI , he didn't say stomach.

Whenthey got to Las Crucestheygot off. The Judgewas not there to

meet them. They started uptown. 0n the trajn at one ljttle stop another

cowboygot on, apparently not recognized /EyJ anybody,but he was a frjend

of Lee's and Gill'iland's, and vvasas Gjlliland said, "the fastest shot in

the country," and a dangerousfellow if he got jnto a fight. He took hjs

seat somewhereso he had a good eye on the smokjngroom. Whenthe tra'in

got to Las Cruces,Mr. Garrett and CaptainHughes didn't get off. He sa'id,

"l,.legot off and looked around and there wasn't anybodyto meet us, so we

started uptown." Garrett and Hugheswent onto lt4esjllaPark wherethey got

off and cameback. And Lee and his party met JudgeParker halfway downhill...

0f course, everybodywalked in those days. Theymet him halfway up and

surrenderedto him, told him they were there to give themselvesup. He told

themwhere to go--to go to this Hotel. He appojntedRhodes and this other manas guardsto take care of Leeand Gilliland. Andhe askedRhodes

/howhe wasfixed for a gut, and Rhodeslisped a little at tjmesand he said, "0h, yes, sir, yes sir, I'm al1 right," andhe pulled out his 45 and showedit to the judge,whoturned hjs eyesaway. (Laughs)They took the prisonersup and kept themuntil the trial andso on. 0f course,that's beenwritten up so manytimes no use in repeatingit all, but after that trjal they wereallowed to choosethe jail that they had Chase 12

to go to next, becausethere wereother onesout for cattle stealing and

things Iike that. AndMr. Leesaid, "Socorro,the jail jn Socorro." Gil-

liland askedhim, "hlhydid you pick Socorro?Don't you knowthat Sheniff Cookis the toughestman in the country? He neverlets anybodyget away andhe rules with an jron hand." Leesaid, "That'sjust whyI chosehim-- causehe wouldn'tlet us get away,but he wouldn'tlet anybodyelse get to us e'ither. llle'dbe safe in his jail." Thesheriff in Hillsborowanted to take themto Socorro. This Sheriff Cookhad been told that they hadselected that jail, and he wasgoing after them,but the Hillsborosheriff wantedthe honorof taking themover there himself. So they started out and they had to stop jn El Pasofor the trains. Theysat jn the statjon to wait for the train to take themon to CookCounty. lrlhenthey got there, th'is Hillsboro sheriff (I don't knowhis name,but'it can easily be foundjn someof the articles), he remarkedto Leethat there wasa manin Judrezthat he wanted

to get, somecriminal. Andhe askedLee, "lljjll you comeand go w'ithme to get this man?" Leesa'id, "Not on your Iife. If anybodycaught us crossing that river, they'd shootus beforewe got to the other side." So he left themsitting jn the statjon houseand went to Judrez,and he didn't come backrjght away. Thetrain that wouldtake themto Socorrocame and 1eft, and they werethere not knowingexactly what to do. Theyknew that they wereout of the jurjsdict'ionof NewMexico; they were'in Texasand they couldgo on wherethey pleased,but they sat andwaited for this sherjff to comeback. Fina11y,they got in touchwith Daddywho was in Las Cruces. Telephoneswere hard to find. Hetold themthat he wouldget the CookCounty sheriff, whowas Cook, and havehjm comefor them. So these two desperate murdererssat free in the station for eight hours. Chase l3

M. This was a station where?

C: In El Paso, for eight hours wajting for the sheriff to comeand get them.

(Laughs) That's just a regular joke that not manypeople knew, but the

gentlemantold it all to us. At two o'clock that night we broke up. They

had talked themselvesout; Mr. Gilliland had. [,Jeall went our different

ways. Daddysaid to my sister and I before we left him, he said, "You girls

have had an opportunity that any manin the country would havegiven thejr

eyes for--hearing first handfrom J'imG'illiland all thejr story." Andnof

course, he told everything. He told all about this fjght at l,.lillie Wells

with Garrett and his posse--howthis Copley(?) went up over the walls of

the house,went up abovethe roof, and they were'lying on the roof asleep

when/The/ attacked them. Mr. Lee finally found that Gilliland was standing

on top of this thing and he was so tall anyhouandLee told hjm, he said,

"For God's sake, Jim, get downhere, you're a perfect mark." He sa'id, "We1],

if somebodywere behind that mudtank, I want to get tll:il." And it was one

of those bad charactersof that outfit, Jos6 Espalin. And Gjlliland did

spatter the mudpretty badly and Espalin fjnally cameout with handSuP,

shouting, "0h, don't shoot me; meyour friend,'r and everything Ijke that.

Ir'l: This was at Willie Wells?

Uh huh. Whenthey started off, they had one of their men, Kearny, I think

that was his name,had beenshot. And Garrett and his outfit started off

and Lee called themback. He said, "Comeand get your man." 0f course,

they surrenderedto Lee, you know, and he told them, "Comeback and get your

man." Theysaid they couldn't take him on horseback,he was too badly in-

jured. So Lee let themharness up a buckboardand take the maninto Cruces.

0f course, he d'ied, I thjnk before they got him to Cruces. But that experience Chase 14

wassomething that i'd like to write aboutmyself. I canwrite a gooddeal better than I can tal k.

M. t,rlelI , you can wrjte pretty good,then. tllell, myson-in-law came down to seeme one night on ChristmasEve, he and a youngman, a friend of all the family. Andthey hadevidently been making the rounds. (Laughs)When they got there, they camein to seeme. Myson- in-law, Tom,always was very seriouswhen he got a little too muchto drink.

Hetold this friend, he sajd, "Goon out of here, I wantto talk to Grand- mother." Thefellow wentout andvisited aroundwith someof the other

youngpeople jn the hospital, while Tomwas walking up anddown the floor

wjth his handsin his pockets,profoundly think'ing. He saidr "Youknow, as soonas you're able, we're goingto take you out of this hospitaland back

up to your trailer"--I hadmy tra'iler in the yard--"andset you downat a

typewriterand make you write. If your typewriteris not goodenough, we'll get you anotherone. I reada letter that you hadwritten..." And

I started to tell himthat that wasn'tvery polite. LT't left on the desk a letter that I hadwritten to the authorthat wrotethe story aboutCaptain

. I hadleft thjs /letter out/. He hadwritten mesomething aboutfiking to write on the holy sjde of Daddy'sIife anda pioneermother. I hadwritten'in answerto that letter andhe said he wouldnot be free to

do jt for sometime but wantedto knowwhat the prospectswere. I don't knowwhat I wrote him, but anyhowTom had read that letter. Andhe said,

"Woman,that wasa magnificentpiece of l iterature. Thereisn't anything in thosefjne booksyou've got over at the housethat's better than that was." Hesajd, "Youare a wrjterl Youwrite magnificently,but whenyou talk, you talk too damnmuch1" (Laughter) I aiwaysth'ink of that whenI Chase l5

get started to talking. But I've beenself-conscious here, knowingthat

thing was goirng.

The tape recorder?

Un huh.

Mrs. Chase,do you recall CaptainBill Greet of El Paso?

0h, Greet. Yes.

Whatdid you thjnk of him, from what you can recall?

I,,lell, I think that he was considereda pretty goodman. I was particularly

interested in h'im,my fami'ly was, becausemy motherand i had been'in New

York for qu'ite a while--six weeks--vjsjting ColonelGreet and his family

back there. They hadone whole floor of the WaldorfAstoria Hotel, and we

were visiting them. 0n our way home,Daddy couldn't go w'ith us, Mamaand

I went aheadbecause we wantedto get ready for Chrjstmas. I had seen an

amethystcross at Tiffany's. Mr. Greet'introducedus there and took us all

through the valuable things that they had. Tiffany madea specialty of

amethysts, they had the largest pi,ec€of amethyst, supposedlyknown, as one

of the'ir prized possessionsand alwaysshowed jt to peopleas something

great. In one of the counters there was a single piece of jewelry, an ame-

thyst cross; it was on white velvet, there was nothing else around,jt. And

jt was to me the most beautiful th'ing I ever saw. I was about seventeenat

the time. Whenwe started home,my mother sa'id to me, "hle've gotten about

everythingwe wantedin NewYork, didn't we?" I said, "Yes, except that

cross. And if I ever get moneyenough, I'm go'ingto send back and buy it."

And I didn't knowthat my motherhad it then, as a Christmaspresent for me.

The night that we left NewYork, we couldn't get a drawjngroomand we

had two berths outside. Mymother went to sleep and I was sitting in mine; Chase 16

I hadn't hadthe bedmade down. Andthis mankept walk'ingup anddown the

aisle andhe smiledat me. Hemade me so nervousthat I decidedI'd better

go to bed, and I knowI put my shoesup in the bed so I wouldhave a weapon if I neededjt. Theman got moremysterious as wewent along, and in the

samePullman that we werein wasa very sweetold lady that mymother im- mediatelybecameacquainted with. Shewas traveling with her companionto California. This old mankept wa'lkingback and forth andhesitating about there wherethey were. Thenext monningafter I hadfirst noticedhim he askedif he haddisturbed anybody, dny of the peopleduring the n'ight. He askedthis of mynrother and three other lad'iesthat weresittjng in the

berthwjth her. Andshe was very nice to him, shesaid, "No,you haven't. Youhaven't bothered anybody at a1l." l,.'lell,he kept walkjngup anddown the

aisle w'ithhjs handsin hjs pockets.

Wewere to reachEl Pasoat four o'clock in the morning,and the night before,Mama went back to say goodbyeto this old'lady. As sheapproached, this manwas coming the other wayand he beganto run backwardsand jumped up in the vacantseat in front of this old 1ady,crouched down, put his

handsup, said, "Don'tcome any nearer. Don'tcome any nearer." And,of course,scared my mother and everybody else on the train. But on boardwas Itlr.Harry Alexander, one of the offic'ials of the SouthernPacific, andMr. Wingle,who had a bankthere'in El Pasoat the time. Andwe hadbeen friends a long time andof coursewe visited eachother. But whenthis old manacted like he did the conductorand the berthmanand so on took him in the car wherethe porter wassupposed to watchhim and not let himget backin this Pullman. Andwhen we arrived in El Paso,the four of us hada carriage together--Mr.Wingle and Mr. Alexandersaw Mama and I homefirst. Andabout Chase 17

eight o'clock the next mornjngMr. l^linglecalled on the telephoneand I answered

andhe said, "Ellie, te11your motherto hold on to her hair. Her friend,

this old man,followed her off the train at LasCruces." Andit was,of course,not the unionstation, just the lone statjon. Therewas a rowof bu'ildingsacross and one of themwas a restaurantwhere the train menusually are whenthe passedthrough, and they had boothswith curtajns. Andthe story thenwas that this fellow hadfollowed us off the trajn andgone across to this restaurantand got'in oneof the booths,and the restaurantpeople didn't knowwhat to do with hjm--hewouldn't come out. Andthey called the officers and Capta'inGreet went down to take this man. He fought with a knife in his hand.

M: This washere in El Paso? Yeah. AndCaptain Greet was bleeding. Theyattempted to get hjmout without

damageto him, and he lungedat Greetandstruck himwith his knife in the

stomach.Greet was laid up for eight monthsin the hospital with that wound. Andthe man'sstory wasthat this tall womandressed jn blackwas a spy.

M. That wasyour mother? c. Uhhuh, that wasafter him becausehe'd givenaway some Mason'ic secrets. Nowthat washis story.

/Pause/

Ivl: Did you ever tal k to CaptainGreet after that? tle11,no. I didn't after that. lnlehad known him beforeand knownh'is wife quite well. Theywere very nice people.

M: I wastalkjng to Mrs. Greetjust the other day. 0h, is that so?

M: Veryspry 1ady,very nice. Chase IB

Howlong hashe beengone? .|934 M: I thjnk or '37, somewherealong in there.

C: l,Jell,this fellow, the strangepart of it wasthat they'd foundhis address. Theyhad to shoothim to take him, they shot himthrough the shoulder. And Greet,wel I, h'is stomachwas just pract'ica11ycut to pieces. Andthey search-

ed the manto find out anythingthey couldabout hjm, andhe wasa veterinarian from Canada.They w'ired to this townjn Canada,and the brotherof thjs fel- low wired to El Pasothat it washis brother. Andhe wiredmy father and his partners,wired the firm of Fall, Hawkinsand Franklin,to take care of the manand to see that everythingwas done for himthat could be untjl one of themgot there to take h'im. Theywere leaving for El Pasorjght away.

Thepoor fellow's story wasthat this womandressed in black hadbeen follow- 'inghim and spyingon hjmbecause he'd givenaway these Masonic secrets.

M: Hadhe givenaway any Masonjcsecrets?

C: No.

M: Washe planningon threateningyour motheror did he plan on someharm to her?

C: No. Henever admjtted that he wasin danger. Hethought he wouldbe iailed. But he wasn'tv'icjous about it at all. Hjs brother,when he came,said that he hadbeen in faifing health, andthey thoughtthat'if he'd go to California that he wouldbe benefitted. Hewas getting a'little hazyin his thinking, but thqy thoughthe wasperfectly all right to makethe trip a1one. Thepart that hurt Greetso wasthat this wasa rusty knife, someinstru- mentthat the fellow usedjn his veterinarianwork. And,of course,he had a pretty toughtjme--for monthsthey d'idn't think they could savehim, but he cameout ofitafter this eight monthsin the hospitaland seemed to be all right. But he musthave died pretty soonafter that. No, i guessit Chase l9

wasquite a while, becauseit wasaround l9l6 or somethingl'ike that that it happened.

M: Youwere going to talk aboutyour mother,and we neverdid get to your mother. C: Well, she recoveredfrom her gallopingconsumption, as they ca'lledit, very promptlyin the air of LasCruces. Theyhad a fine bunchof womenthat or- ganizedthemselves into a club.

M: This wasabout when, Mrs. Chase? .|890. r. 0h, gosh,about Theycalled themselvesthe lnjoman'simprovement Club, and the club is still 'in ex'istencejn Las Cruces. Mymother, I know,went to the 50thAnniversary celebration of the club. Theyeven busied themselves

doingthings on the side but mymother was always deeply interested'in any

casethat myfather had. Theneighbors used to say she tried morecases hangingover the front gate than Daddydjd in the courtroom. We1'1,he was associate,supreme court judge.

0n one occas'ionI know,a womancame to her for help. Her son had been caughtstealing a coh,,orsome small anjmaltheft. Like two or three cows, that wouldbe a small theft then. Daddy,of course,he couldn't hearor didn't knowanything about jt, but Mamagot her wholestory. Andwhen Daddycame tolunch why she told himsomething about it. Hedid knowsome- thing of the arrest of this boy, and he told Mama,"The best thing they can do is for that boy to admitit andthrow himself on the mercyof the court becausehe's guilty. Andif he doesn'tcome through and make a confession' it'll go pretty hardwjth him. But'if he gives any kjnd of reasonablestate- ment, the court won't be too hard on him." So Mamarepeated th'is to the motherof the boy and advisedher what to do andwhat lawyerto go to to help her out. A year later that womancame back, and this well-dressed' Chase 20

happy-lookingwoman came to see mymother and hadto introduceherself as

the womanwho had poured out her story on Mama.And the boy hadcarried

out fherJsuggestion and he hadserved a short time in iail andwas out and do"ingvery well--probablyrobbing somebody e1se. (Chuckles)But shewas constant1y... Did I te11you the other dayabout her trying to give the gunsto TomTucker?

M: As he wasgetting on a train?

C: Yes.

M: Yes.

C: l,le]1,that wasone of her stunts. But mostof her workwas 1ega1 work.

Therewas another case that cameup of this lt{exjcanman in Crucesbeing sent to the penitentiaryfor life for killing this manwho had violated hjs home.

I think that wasthe wordthey used. He hadrujned one of the man'sdoors andthe old fellow hadshot him. Hewas tried andsentforl'ife. Mamaheard

Daddyand h'is partnerssay, "That fellow shouldnever have been sent to the pen. Hewas fighting for the honorof hjs homeand he hadevery right to

k'ill that fellow." l,,lell,Mama took that up, that washer. ". Shedidn't know the man,never heard of anyof hr'sfamily. But they werein SantaFe at

this time attendjngone of the sessjonsof the'legislature, so Mamawent to the governor,who was Governor Otero at the time, andtold himabout it.

M: This wasabout when? We11o'it wasbefore I can remember.It was'in the ear'lyninet'ies. She

told the Governor,she said, "Youshould pardon that man." Shenagged at him unt'il finally after she returnedhome she hada telegramfrom /h'is7 secretary,Miss Arnson, who had been'in the office of the governorsof New

Mexicofor thirty-six years. This telegram1iaiq7: "GovernorOtero wants Chase 21

you to knowthat your manjs free as the windblows today." So Mamadjdn't let it go at that. Shenever saw the manafterwards, but she found h'is

fam'i1yjn E'l Paso,and she hired oneof the youngsters,a boyabout fourteen, to kind of look after the yard andthings of that kjnd at home. Sometimes she workedin a very odd wayto do her goodwork. Sheknew that the family

hadpractical'ly nothing to go on, so she hired this boy to take care of the yard anddo little errandsof that kind. Shewas telling someonewho had cometo the housefor something,she said, "0h, I wasbusy in the kitchen but I got awayso Carloscould get hjs coffee." Theyasked her whatshe

meantby that andshe said, "Well, everyafternoon when he leaves, he takes somecoffee hometo h'is fami'ly, and I knowthey needit." Andthey said,

"Whydon't you just give jt to him?" Shesa'id, "Because I wouldn'tknow howmuch he needed."So shegot out of the kitchenso Carloscould help himselfto the coffee.

Shewas with hjmall the tjme, wjth Daddy. Whenshe went to Washington beforeany time at all hadpassed, she'd begunto makeherself knownas a figure, andshe djd someof the mostunusua'l things. But they say there

wasnever a morepopular woman jn Washjngtonthan my mother was. I have herenow the letters that shegot fromCalvin Coolidgesaying how much she and Daddywere going to be mjssedwhen they left Washington.0f course,that letter wasspoken of in someof this informationthat I've got hereas a most unusualthing, that Cooljdgewas such a tacjturn man. But Mama,she never meta stranger. Shewas, we11, anybody would loosen up andtalk to her, and Mr. Coolidge grewvery fond of her. Theywere often placedtogether at d'in- ner parties andthings like that. Theysay that she's the only womanthat ever madehjm laugh. Theseletters that I havehere are fromMrs. Coolidge, Chase 22

Mrs. Hoover,and Mrs. Harding,of course.

M: Mrs. Chase,I wasunder the impress'ionthat the Fall family paperswere at

the Univers j ty of NewMex'ico. 'is t'. l,rlell,part of themare anda'll thjs bunchover there goingto them,all that stuff piled up. Myson is goingto take it over to his office andget it out of myway. I haven'thurrjed with jt becauseI didn't wantit to be wherejt could be seentoo muchtoo long beforeDr. Stratten's biography comesout.

M. That's the biographyof Albert BaconFall? Uhhuh. HuntingtonLibrary askedfor it at onetime.

M: Askedfor the informatjonyou have?

["tJ Mynephew sent themquite a lot. I wastal king to Dr. Stratten and said somethingabout they weresendjng this stuff with mypermiss'ion, I told him he could go aheadand sendit out to HuntingtonLibrary. Theycan pay for things like that--Strattencouldn't; he got themthe hardway' but he had four or five grants. He just wrote mea few daysago that he hadanother

grant to carry on his researchwork. I don't thjnk there's a personthat

ever knewmy father that Stratten hasn't interviewed. It's takenhim ten

years to do it but he's doneit; the mostthorough job. It's so thorough that he hasevery important or real'ly noticeableart'icle aboutany of the family. They'reall 'in there--clippingsabout, well, oneof mynieces winning a beautyprize and her picture wasin all the papers. Andof courseon ac- countof her beinga senator'sgranddaughter, why, her picture wenteverywhere. Youknow Hoover was directly indebtedto Daddyfor h'is position on the Cab'inetwhjch led to his beingpresjdent. He's the on'lyone of the Cabinet membersthat didn't cometo Washingtonto offer thejr assjstanceto Daddy Chase 23

whenth'is thjng broke. Daddydjdn't knowit, but they werelined up to go on

the witnessstand after the r"egularwitnesses had been called. Eachone

waslined up to go before the jury and te]l what they thoughtof Daddyand whatthey knewabout hjm--the character witness. Let mesee that book. That's part of the gangfrom out herethat had

goneback. AndDaddy didn't knowany of this untjl I told him/Eha! at the summationof the trial they called the first characterwjtness. Hewas not supposedto havebeen called until the next morning,but the court hadlet up ear'lier than usualand so they called SenatorNewberry,who became Post- masterGeneral for a while. Daddywas startled andrather shockedwhen Newberrygot on the stand. I wasgoing out to a dinner that night with Evelyn

Mclain,and I wentin andtold Dadd1Fhail the manwho had planned th'is was Davis,the Secretaryof Laborin the Hardingcabinet. He hadplanned the

wholething for getting the Cabjnetofficers over to testjfy to Daddy. And

evenCharles Evans Hughes was there waiting to go on the standto testify. I

told Daddythat night beforeI wentout, I said, "secretaryDavjs and hjs wife are comingdown to spendthe eveningwith you, and I think you should knowthat Mr. Dav"isis the manwho'instigated thjs characterw'itness business." Daddydidn't reply to meat all. Thenext mornjngwhen the court convened, 'in Daddywouldn't allow his friends, theseCabinet officers, to be swo'rn as a w'itnessas to his character. Hedidn't wantthem to haveto be namedin anyway in the case,and so they droppedout. Hooverwas the only manthat wasn't jn that bunch. He told l.'lilsonhis

ownstory. LTnhiV autobiogrpahy,he said that he hadnever been a fniend 'last of Fall's. Th'isI found nilht. /Iooks for somepapers/. tdell, I had herea letter that Hooverhad written myfather. It's beenpublished, but Chase 24

quite a long time ago. I hadthat thing last night.

M. We11,it's probablylying aroundhere somewhere. What happened then, Mrs.

Chase?I sawa copyof the letter; you showedjt to meonce before.

C: Well, he becamefurious whenhe sawthat letter in print.

M: Yourfather did?

C: Hooverdid. See,Daddy gave this long interviewwhjch was published by the Bell Syndjcateand wrjtten by a mannamed Wyatt. I knowW'ill Burgess in El Pasotold me, "I wasawfully glad he let that letter go out." But

he sajd, "I knewit fioulfr makeHoover furjous andhe'd do anything." And of coursehe did. I foundr'n this bunchof stuff a telegramthat I had written to Mr. M'itchell, whowas the AttorneyGeneral "in the cab'inetof

Hoover,and who had refused parole for Daddy,and Mitchell gavethe statement

that parolecould not be grantedsave in unusualcases. It mademe so darn madI fired an opentelegram back to him--toMjtchell--and asked him what more

unusualcase could he quote,and then whowas convjcted of acceptinga bribe

that no manhad given. Andone or two other things--I don't knowiust what I saidin the thing. But I got over two hundredletters andtelegrams for that openlelter andMitchell neveracknowledged'it'in any way--'it was dead

sjlence. Thefirst telegramI hadwas from the woman'sclub, the national order meetjngin NewYork at the time. Andthey wired methis long te'legram sayingthat they werethoroughly in accordwith meand wjshing us goodluck andall that kjnd of stuff, signedby the presidentand the secretaryof the FederatedWomen's Clubs of America. Thatwas the fjrst oneand thenone after anotherfollowed; even Penrose in Francewired his indignation.Jus:tbefore the verdict sombodyin NewYork sent a te'legramto Mr. Davis' lawyerswho made the greatestmistake in the Chase 25

world by not allowingDaddy to go on the witnessstand and tell his own

story. Thjs NewYork man, who no one knew,wired that the mostpitying

summarythat they could give beforea jury wouldbe the quotationof Kip-

ling's "If," andhe quotedthe thing in this telegram. Nobodyknew who he was. 0f course,they tried to answerhim but he gaveno address;he wasjust from NewYork. He hadthat emphasized--"Ifyou can keepyour head whenall aboutyou are losing theirs andblaming it on you"--hehad that part quoted.

But whenMama took up her residencein l^Jashingtonshe went about it in her usualfriendly way;and beforesheleft Washjngton she haddone the mostremarkable thjngs, makingher a powerthere. Whenthe Hooverscame' Mrs. Hooverwanted l4ama's attentjon. Theyall because she hadbeen'in Washington for nearly ten yearsand made herself well-known and, of course,these new ladies comingjn there wantedher associationand he1p. Shedid things like this old Germancook on a navalvessel, a United Statesnaval vessel, who had been on his job for thirty-five yearswrote her from this ship off the Florida coaston piecesof scratchpad paper

wilh a pencil, sayingthat he hadbeenin servicethat long and he wasget- ting o1dand wanted to retjre andspend the restof his life with his family in NewYork. He'dbeen told that'if anyonecouJd heip himget out of the Navy,my mother could. Sheimmediately went to SecretaryDenby, showed him this letter andtold hjmthat she thoughtthe mandeserved to be turnedloose to spendthe rest of his I ife with h'isfamily. A few dayslater she got an- other pencil note fromthis fel'lowsaying that he hadbeen notified he wasout.

l4ajorFewel , of course--youknow the other Fewelfam'ily--the old manwas getting very feeble towardthe last daysof h'is life" Mamdwas a great friend Chase 26

of the Fewelfamjly, andshe ran into Chrjs Feweland hjs wife on oneof her trips hometo El Paso. Chris wasa conmnanderin the Navy,and he wantedto

buy his tntayout, as they seemedto be allowedto do if they hada longer term to serve. He wantedto be able to go backand take care of the Fewel property. 0f course,the old manhad pnoperty a1l over El Paso. But he couldn't get away. AndMama took it uponherself to go to Mr. Denbyagain andput the facts of Chris Feweland his father andwhat kind of a manthe father was. 0f course,he wasa stingy old fellow, but Momspoke of his makingso muchof El Paso,whjch he did, andshe left. Theofficers back there, shewould tackle on anybody'saccount, but they alwaysrecieved her beautifully andquickly. Theysaid shenever wasted their time. Shecame

andtold themwhat she wanted and got out andleft themto thjnk for them- selvesand accomplish what they wanted. So shewent again to the NavyDepart- mentand put the story of Chris Feweland his father beforethem and left.

Someljttle time later, of course,Chrjs Fewelwas /illoweri7 to buy his way out and was home. Thedisarmament conference was going on and Mamawas sit- ting upsta'irson the balconyspace that wassaved for the Cabinetmembers,

whenthey hadthe Senatedjvision lThere]. Shewas attending one of the meetingsof the d'isarmamentconference. Secretary Denby was sitting iust belowher, andshe leaned over and thankedhim for letting Chris Fewelgo.

Andhe sajd, "I djdn't do that, Mjz Fall. Youlet himoff yourself." And things of that kind werego'ing on constantly. t'JhenW'ill Hayes,one of the Cabinetofficers, left, after aboutsix

monthsjn the Cabinetto take up a $50,000a year job as censorfor the moviesjn California, there wasa shuffle goingaround about who should be madepostmaster general, and howthey wou1dfill the spot. Andmy mother Chase 27

said to Daddyand some of his friends, "Whythere's no questionabout that. SenatorWorth should have that job. He'sa manfrom the West,and he wants

it, andhe shouldhave jt." So, that wasit. Daddyappointed the man.

I havea long memorandumwritten by this NationalChief of the National

Parks, and he tells of the story Lnh"il Mamawent with my father to Yellow- stoneor Yosemite,one of the two. Shewent with hjmfor all of /those tripsT. But on oneoccasion they wereup in the mountainsas far as she could go. Daddywas riding ho'rsebackon a tour of the rest of the places, and Mamawas talking to these boysand they said they got hungryfor some- thing sweetbesides canned peaches and things like that up in their camp.

Onefellow said he just wouldgive anythingfor a doughnut.And Mama sa'id, "lnJell,I canmake some doughnuts for you." But they didn't haveall the

materialsshe needed. I don't knowwhat was missing. Eggs,that wasit-- they didn't haveany eggs. Shewent on to anotherone of the campsthe next day with Daddy. Theyhad a lot of eggs, and so she got someof the'ir eggsand when she stoppedback by this placeshe went jn andmade these boys

somedoughnuts. We have pictures of her wjth a cup towel fastenedaround her wa'istand a big frying pan in her hand. That picture has turnedup t'ime

after time. (Chuckles)I pickedup oneof thosemagazines that the Safeway

stores usually has by their check-out/_counterT. I wasreading that whenI went homeand sawthis picture of Mamaand the story from someman /whose/ wife haddied andhe hadjust this one son. He hada hardtime knowingwhat to cookor howto cook'it. He hadwritten to Mamato get her recipe and she

hadsent it to him. Thepicture of her with this cup towel tjed aroundher

wasin that magazjneand tel1jng whatshe did for lThos/ boys. Then,ttlr. Matherwho had beenthe headof the forest rangersand the Chase 28

national parks, particularly, retired from age and ill health. Daddywas

talking about it with Senatorldorth and somebodye1se, and said he didn't

quite knowwhere to find someoneto take h'is p1ace. And Mamabroke in there

and she said, "Why,you don't haveto look. His place should be taken by

this young mannamed /A-lbri ghil . He was one of the rangers that accompanied

Daddyabout, and Mamasaw hjm. He was quite a youngman and she l'iked him

very much. So it was in Harding's companythat Mamatold Daddythere wasn't

anything to do except to makethis youngman head of the departmentand she

did. His nameis Albright. So that's anotherone of her appointments.

Shewould undertakethe most unusualthings as though it were iust an

everdayevent. Her jnfluence in l,tlashingtonwas tremendous. Shecould do

anything that no one else could. For jnstance, one night about ten d'clock

Daddywas in his den working. And she was tired, she'd beenon the go pretty

muchall the tjme. And she was reading the paper in bed whenshe sawa

not'ice that the English embassV/wail having a djnner party and realized

that she had acceptedthe invitat'ion to be there. So she telephonedand got

a hold of the ambassador'swjfe wholaughed and said, "llell, don't let jt

bother you, Mrs. Fall. It doesn't hurt us at all." And thjngs of that

kind were constantly occurring. Cool'idgewent into the White Houseat one

o'clock after Harding'sdeath. l4rs. Hardingwas out with my mother, at the

FrjendshipHome of EvelynMcLajn. And whenMama got back to thejr apartment

she got a bunchof roses that had arrived at three o'clock from Calvin Coolidge

at the White House. He spent from one o'clock until three, and got those

flowers to Mamaat that t'ime. t4: Whaturas the purposeof hjs send'ingthe flowers to your mother?

Nothing--just a friend'ly act as he urentjnto the Wh"iteHouse. l-lewanted to

share the glory of, it, I guess. I kept the top of the box that /h'aV the Chase 29

lrlhiie Houseaddress lror a long time, but I lost it somernrhere.But her I ife

was filled with kindly things that nobodyever heardof.

1,1: Wheredid your rnotherspend her final days, l4rs" Chase?

In El Paso. t4: Is she buried'in Evergreen?

1Yes.,/ She had qu'ite a bunchof lots there for the fam'i1y. She and Daddy are both buried there, and my husbandand my sister. Onesjster is buried

here.

Goingback to my motheragain, whenI first cameover here /to the hos-

pita-V, I was downby the desk one day whensome friends camein with Dr.

Sjmms. And he'is one of the old doctors here now. Someonecalled my atten-

tion to hjm, or he kind of greetedme as a stranger. I said, "I think I

knewyou whenyou were a boy," and told him again who I was. And he patted

my hand, held on to it, said, "I'll neverin thjs world forget your nother."

They had a homestead;the Simmsfamily had comeout here wjth the father's

he1p, and they had a homesteadright against part of the ranch. This boy

wasonly nine years old whenhe had typhojd fever. He said, "Every so often,

tw'icea week, a wagonwould pull up in front of my houseand a bottle of ice

would be put out that your mother had gotten from El Paso becausethere was

no rce near . But every two days in the weekthis wagonwould

bring that jce up to meand jt probablysaved my 1ife."

Thenthe brother of thjs fellow camein. He's a preacher--hadno arms'

born without arms--buthe's a pretty well knownpreacher throughout this

part of the country. He camein; I don't think he knewwho was jn here, he

wasjust calling on the djfferent patients. And he looked up and sawthat

picture of my motherand he just stood there and looked at it. And he turned Chase 30

aroundand lookedat meand he said, "Yourmother." And I said, "Yes." He

sajd, "Shewas a great woman,and your father wasa great man." He said

that whentheir father died on this homestead,Daddy paid for hjs funeral

expenses. LTheil hadn't knowneach other personally, but fn{ paid for the

funeral expensesand for the tombstone. He said, "Later, whenwe were able..

Daddyfjnally bought their homesteadafter the father died and then En"il becamequite well-to-do. He sajd, "Later whenwe were able, we broughtour

father's body downhere for burial instead of leav'ingit up there at Three

Rivers. l,tlebrought the tombstonealong, and it's out here in the cemetery.

There isn't anybodyelse that would havedone anything fike that. He d'idn't

oweus anything."' He knowledgeof the fami'ly, but he took a hand

in thejr affairs and he knewthey were downand out.

And I have heardnnre stories. At separatet'imes, two old Mexicanmen

havecome in here. Oneof themwas telling about my mothernursing a member

of his family whenthey were very sick, and curing them. I rememberthat

this particular case, my motherhad spent somelittle time doing things for

them--takingthem food and things of the kind. The invalid had developed

this constant hiccup and had been hiccupingfor a couple of weeks,and Mama

took himsome/nreOicjneT up there and told him to take that, and it stopped

it. They were grateful forit. t,rlewere talking to one of the El Pasodoctors

about it, LTnQhe said, "Well, I don't think I'd ever have thought to use

it but it stands to reasonit would stop it." It didn't makeany d'ifference

howpoor the homewas, she'd go and do what she could to cheer them up.

And there jn El Pasoshe's had somegreat things happento her. She'd

beentaken in a numberof times; she was gullible about anyonewho told her

a sad story, she'd alwaysbeljeve them. And I knowone particular person

who'd cometo herandtold her that he was in distress. And he knewher Chase 3l

nameand knewhow kind whewas. 7Jlesaid] that he hadiust broughthjs wife in townwith a small babyand hadtaken them to the hospital becausethe

wife wasquite sick, and he neededsome money to get her belongingsout of the station. Andhe didn't knowanybody in townand didn't knowwhere to go, but he hadknown of Mamaand he thoughthe'd ask her if she'dlet him havea little moneyfor a few days. So Mamagave hjm what she hadin the house. It wasa Sunday,and she hada five dollar bill andone or two

other dollar bjlls. Shegave /Them7 to frim. A coupleof dayslater the police called her andasked her jf she hadbeen approached by th'is man,and

she said wel'l, yes, she did g'ivesome money to a manwhose wife wassick. Theyasked her to descrjbethe man,and shedid. Theyasked her then if

shecould come down and ident'ify him. Theyhad hjm and were going to have a hearing. Thenext morningshe went downandthe fellow admittedthat he didn't havea w'ifeor a ch'ild, but that he madehis wayaround the world and madevery goodmoney by studyingthe telephonebook and pjcking out certain namesof peoplethat mightpossibly be approachedand finding out

whathe couldabout those people, and then go to them. At the sametime that Mamawas there, there r,rrasa groupof schoolteachers that all lived togetherin one house,and he said he knewthey wou'ldnot be at workon

Sundayafternoon. Andhehad just touchedany numberof peoplelwith stoniesT I ike that--he wasjust a perfect criminal. But a sad story wouldcatch her everytime.

M: Mrs. Chase,I certainly wantto thankyou for all your time. You'vebeen mostgracious.