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Interview No. 56

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Interview No. 56 University of Texas at El Paso ScholarWorks@UTEP Combined Interviews Institute of Oral History 2-24-1966 Interview no. 56 Mrs. C. C. Chase Follow this and additional works at: https://scholarworks.utep.edu/interviews Part of the Oral History Commons, and the Social and Behavioral Sciences Commons Recommended Citation Interview with Mrs. C. C. Chase by Leon C. Metz, 1966, "Interview no. 56," Institute of Oral History, University of Texas at El Paso. This Article is brought to you for free and open access by the Institute of Oral History at ScholarWorks@UTEP. It has been accepted for inclusion in Combined Interviews by an authorized administrator of ScholarWorks@UTEP. For more information, please contact [email protected]. UNIVERSITYOFTEXAS AT EL PASO INSTITUTEOFORAL HISTONY IiiITERVIEIdEE: Mrs. C. C. Chase IIITERVIE',IER: LeonC. Metz PIiOJECT: El PasoArea Histor .1966 DirTE0F I|'ITERVIEII: -Februgrv 2$. -. , TERIJISOF USE: TAPENO.: TRANSCRIPT!'iO.: TRAIISCRIBER: DATETRA|'ISCRIBED: BIOGRAPHICALSYIIOPSISOF INTERVIEI'IEE: Daughterof Albert BaconFall. suttf{AIIYot ttutuqvlEl'f: andpersonal'ities of early 20thCenturyE1 Pasoand Las Cruces' Incidents and personafity includingPat Gamett, Bi'l1ythe Kid' CaptainGreet; ind the careen of her father,recollections of her mother' I hour (l 7/B tape sPeed);31 Pages IV|rs.C. C. Chase by LeonC. Metz February24, 1966 C: We11,what were we talking aboutlast? M: lllell, we talked main'lyabout some of your experiencesin the Southwestand NewMexico and down jnto Old l{exico,and your father and so on. Just a ljttle bjt of everything. Almost. trjhatI'd like to talk aboutmore is mymother. We11,let's hearsome about your mother. All the writers of history in the wild andwooly hlest have neglected ent'ire'ly to mentionthe fact that womenwere out here, too, and that there wereplenty of 1ovely,refined homes.l^le weren't all wearjngtwo guns,riding horseback throughthe desertand the mountainshunting somebody to shootat. Oneof the oldest charactersthat I haveknolvn out herewas lirs. FrankCoe. M: Wasshe the wife of oneof the Coebrothers? C: Yes. Shewas one of the mostrefined, lovely womenI ever knew. Andthe first thing shedid whenshe married and came out herewas to gatherpeople togetherfor a Sundayschool . Therewas no church,no rel igjous poss'ib'i1ity for any of themto get to, so she hadthem come and sing songsin the open. M: Wherewas th'i s at, Mrs. Chase? 0ver at Glencoe.She andherchildren bu'ilt a 1ove1y'ljttle chapelin Glencoe, a rock chapel, and they had serv'icesthere everyweek. M: Is it still standing? C: Still standing,yes. Andwhen she got the peopletogether to sing songswhen there waspractically nothinghere at home--itwas bare--the cowboys would drift in fromdifferent parts so that she hada wholegang around on Sundays. Later on her husbandhad pjcked up qujte a bit of moneywith his cattle and Chase so on. Hewas making a trip to El Pasoto bring backsome of the things that they needed,and he askedher whatshe wanted. Hesaid, "I have enoughnow to buy somefurniture. Just whatwould you like to have?" And shesaid, "Well, childrencould grow up wjth a pianoand the furniture wouldn'tdo themany good." So he broughta grandp"iano out to her--one of thosegreat big things. It sat jn the bareparlor w'itha tarpaulinover it exceptwhen she'd haveher singerscome in. Andalways she was a digni- fied, 1ovelywoman; you couldnrtbe with her that you didn't feel better. Nowthat wasone of the original Westernwomen that I knew--thatis, women that happenedto be in the West. M: Aboutwhen was that, Mrs. Chase? 0h, well, it wasbefore the time of Bi11ythe Kid. 0f course,they thought Bi11ythe Kid wasjust all right, as everybodyelse did here. AndPat Gamettmade himself very unwelcomein LjncolnCounty by his killing Bi11y the Kjd, particularly as he did--hjs silhouettein the wjndowwith the moon- light shiningon it andGarrett came to the doorand just shot throughit. So he hadto leave and go over to Las Cruces. Andin Las Crucesthere were someof the loveliest homesand peop'le. Theydon't stop to considerthat NewMex'ico as a territory wasgoverned more or less by Washingtonand the officers of the law andeverything else that we hadout here, the people wereappojnted by the Presjdentthrough the UnitedStates and they were usuallyof the uppercrust of soc'iety. Theywere sons and daughters of someprominent senator or somebodythat hadmade a namefor himself in the East. Nowthose are the peoplethat real1yamounted to something.0f course,you got a desertspot, and jt wasalso a very goodplace for men whocommitted crimes'in the easternpart of the UnitedStates to comeand Chase hide, becausewe had plenty of hiding places in the mountains. And since I tal ked to you the other day, Mr. McGawsent,by my son, a book that he had just gotten from Mr. lrl. l,rl.Hutchjnson, DeanRhodes editor executor, that was the manwhowrote it. The title of it wasAnother Verdict for 0l iver Lee. M: 0h, I sawthat. I havea copy of it. C: You have? We1l, I couldn't go on with it very well I couldn't quite catchwho was saying what. M: I couldn't either, to tell you the truth. C: hlell, I guesshe's got his sty'le. Well, that's whereMr. Rhodes... Some- bodywas telling my-father...CharlieBassett jn El Pasotold Daddyonce, he said, "Youknow, I readalI of [1r. Rhodes'works,but I can't keepup with hjm. He's hardto follow." AndDaddy remarked that he wroteas he rode. He'dgo alonga centainpath and see somethingmove across the way andhe'd run to investigate,and he'd ride rjght on off,and he'd bring in that whenit wasn'treally kin to the rest of his story at all. Andthat /is whaf, I thoughtwhen I read that book. "0h, he's gottenMr. Rhodes' sty'le--meanderinga whol e /1oV ." I knewEugene Cunningham very we1l, and I couldn't follow the quota- tions. I d'idn't knowwhether it wasEugene Cunningham talking or who. But THutcninson7refered to the statementjn the bookabout l,.l.l,.J. Cox. I told that EugeneCunningham a little of the story of I{r. Cox,and I could see that it waswritten'in this book,but not substantial'ly. Itlr. Coxwas one of the charactersof the West. Hewas very quiet'in his talk andmanner, and I don't think I ever heardhjm laugh; but he hadmore humor than anyone I ever knew. Onething that tickled mevery muchwas when my father bought Chase his first car out hereand it wasone of the very few. It wasonly the 47th car jn Texaswhen he got it out here. Andhe wentby andpicked up Mr. Cox at the ranch. Youknow where the Coxranch was; jt's wherethe missjle groundis now,right up againstthe OrganMountains. TI: Whatwas Mr. Cox'sfirst name? C: WelI , it wasjust W.l^J., B jl I Cox. Andhe hada bunchof children that are aroundhere now. There'sone that is namedfor myfather, Albert Cox,and Hal, andlF-e ha{ a wholebunch of them. Mr. Coxhad a governessor a teach- er on the placeall the time anda regularschool for his children. I at- tendedit whenI wasa youngster. Peopledidn't knowanything much about himexcept someone like myfather, whotook care of his business. Andhe didn't havevery muchbusiness, he just ran everythingaround hlm, wjth no k'i1I i ngson his hands. He'd beenaccusedof harboring,and he did--0liver Leebecame his bnother-in-law. He'dride'in at night whenPat Garrettwas... Well, he andGilliland knewthat they'd nevercome into the townof Las Crucesalive'if they sur- renderedto Pat Garrett and his noose. So they playedit safe andwent aroundfor twoyears hiding out or stopp'ingin a placeI ike ours. They'd comein at night, go to bed,and go on andattend to their busjness. And the Cox'sp1ace, it wasa very big placeand there wasnobody anywhere near t't. Heowned one place that I think Hal Coxljves in now,that they call the Pump.Then down at the point of the mountainswas Globe Springs that someof the Rhodesfami'ly had. And the history of Coxas he told it to my father wasthat he camestart- ing Westfrom Tennesseewith hr's fami'ly or part of his family andanother coveredwagon, a load of people. And they got to feudingalong the way, Chase the twooutfjts. By the time they got to SanAntonio theyrd killed off one or two. Andwhen they got to SanAntonio, they campedoutside of the town beforegoing jn, the last remainingmembers of both the families, andthey hadtheir last fight there. Mr. Coxwas a boyof aboutseventeen at the time and he wasone of the only remajningpersons in that feud. Theyarrest- ed him, the SanAntonio officers; he wastrjed andfound guilty of murder andsentenced to be hung. Andthe word"statute" or whateverit is... M: Statuteof I imitations? C: Well, that wordin his indictmentor someth'ingabout the casewas not cros- sedand that held themup. Theyhad to haveanother trial andcross that "t". They1et'it drift anddrift andhe stayedon in jail andwas a trustee. Heworked and savedhis money.And one of the menin jail w'ithhim--they got to be rather chummy...At one time the authorities cameto SanAntonio-- the wholestate groupto inspectbujldings--they went down to inspectthe jai1. This boy andMr. Coxlocked them in a cell; they werefree to roam around. Andthey lockedthem up in a cell, wentto townand hada big time, cameback and released the officers and1et themgo. Finallyit hadgone on until he'd beenin jail for sevenyears. Hestudied all the time that he wasthere--read what he could. Hewrote to a lawyerthat he knewwas a good one, andthey filed suit for the jail itself--for the ownershipof the iail. Hehad been there for sevenyears without beingmolested, or no onetrying to drive himout, andaccording to the Texas1aws, the iail washjs.
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