Wednesday Volume 672 26 February 2020 No. 30

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 26 February 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 299 26 FEBRUARY 2020 300

Stephen Crabb: As we prepare to celebrate St David’s House of Commons Day, now is a good moment to celebrate the enormous and excellent progress that has been made in reducing unemployment in Wales. Does my right hon. Friend Wednesday 26 February 2020 agree that what is really encouraging is the fact that the long-term lag between Welsh employment levels and the The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock UK average has now closed, with more people in Wales going out to work than ever before?

PRAYERS Simon Hart: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend and constituency neighbour for raising this issue. He will be as pleased as I am that the figures in his own [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] constituency, when compared with 2010, are as good as they are. It is absolutely right that the Government’s job, in collaboration with the Welsh Government if that is necessary, is to ensure we create the circumstances Oral Answers to Questions where that trend continues. He has my absolute assurance that that will be the case.

Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op): Will the Secretary WALES of State provide the House with specific details on how many people have been affected by the catastrophic flood damage to residential properties and businesses The Secretary of State was asked— across Wales, and exactly how much has been lost to the Universal Credit Welsh economy so far? Simon Hart: I should start by saying that, during the 1. Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab): What visitstofloodedareasmadelastweekbytheUnder-Secretary assessment he has made of the effect on low-income of State for Wales and I, we were, as one would expect, families of the roll-out of universal credit in Wales. completely bowled over by the professionalism, resilience, [900896] determination and expertise of numerous agencies and individuals in coming to terms and dealing with the The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): Universal particular problem the hon. Lady raises. She should, I credit was designed to simplify the system and ensure hope, be pleased to know that I have had a number of that payments reach those in need. We estimate that meetings with the Welsh Government and council leaders 700,000 more people will receive about £2.4 billion of in areas affected by these unusual—unfortunately, not unclaimed benefits through universal credit. as unusual as we would like—weather events. It is fair to say that the Welsh Government are still assessing the Cat Smith: Will the Government commit to ending the extent of the damage and exactly what is necessary by dehumanising work capability and personal independence way of rectification. We have said, and we will repeat payment assessments, which routinely find sick and our commitment, that when the Welsh Government disabled people fit for work, and commit to bring all come to us with absolutely watertight figures and explain these assessments in-house? exactly what they need from us, we are ready to help in whatever way we can. Simon Hart: I think all of us, on both sides of the House, recognise that the system does not always work Christina Rees: First Minister Mark Drakeford and as well as it should. We all have casework that would his Welsh Government Ministers have visited flood indicate that. Our ongoing commitment—indeed, I was victims and have already pledged an initial £10 million doing this back in 2011—is to make sure that, where from the Welsh Government’s severely restricted budget people do struggle with the system or fall through the after 10 years of Tory cuts. Yet last month, at short gaps, we act quickly, efficiently and humanely. Any notice, the Treasury took back £200 million from the cases that the hon. Lady or other Members have where Welsh Government because of recalculations of Barnett that is not happening, please raise them with us and we consequentials. The Prime Minister has not bothered to will take them up with the Department for Work and visit flood victims in Wales, but could he at least return Pensions. that money to the Welsh Government to help to clean up the damage? Welsh Economy Simon Hart: I have to say that, if I was a business or 2. Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): What individual affected by the events of the last few days, the recent assessment he has made of the strength of the last thing I would expect to hear in this House is the Welsh economy. [900897] politicisation of a very difficult situation. The conversations I have had in face-to-face meetings with First Minister The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): The Drakeford in Cardiff have been constructive. He has at unemployment rate in Wales is at a record low. There no stage made the observations the hon. Lady has made are 144,000 more people in work in Wales than in 2010 to me. We have made it absolutely clear that as soon and 90,000 fewer workless households. The Government as the damage is assessed we are ready to assist, are committed to driving further economic growth and notwithstanding the fact that this is a devolved responsibility, levelling up across the UK, including west Wales. and it is absolutely right that we as a UK Government 301 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 302 should respect the devolution settlement. I will just 4. Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): What discussions finish by saying that local authority leaders—[Interruption.] he has had with Cabinet colleagues on the potential I will leave it at that point. merits for Welsh businesses of regulatory divergence from the EU. [900899] Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): HS2 will do next to nothing for north Wales and worse than The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales nothing for south Wales. Yet only six miles of HS2 railway (David T. C. Davies): Far from lowering standards, the line will cost more than the crucial, first-of-its-kind UK already exceeds the EU minimum requirements in tidal lagoon in Swansea, rejected by the Minister’s Tory several areas, including on workers’ rights and Government. I am sure the Secretary of State agrees environmental targets. We will continue in that vein, that low-carbon electricity generated in Wales should with an independent trade policy, and in so doing, power the transport of the future. What will he do to get unleash the enormous potential of the UK and Welsh Wales-wide tidal lagoon projects back on track? economies.

Simon Hart: As the right hon. Lady knows—she may Stuart C. McDonald: Over 60% of Welsh exports are even have been at the debate that I hosted in this destined for the EU and dominated by key industries Chamber where we discussed the matter into the early vulnerable to divergence related to trade barriers— hours of the morning—it is undisputed that a tidal agricultural machinery and transport equipment, to lagoon has a future in the UK, and in particular in name but two. So instead of actively trying to circumvent Wales. The difficulty that we had over the tidal lagoon the Prime Minister’s own withdrawal agreement, why are project in Swansea was in relation to the company not the Government pursuing the regulatory alignment proposal itself. So I hope that she can be reassured that that is crucial for Welsh businesses and exporters? this is part of the energy mix—it is part of the renewable commitment that we have made. The tidal lagoon is still David T. C. Davies: We of course voted to leave the under discussion. European Union, and that meant voting to leave the customs union and voting to leave the single market. I Liz Saville Roberts: I hope the Minister will join me am quite surprised by the hon. Gentleman’s question, in congratulating Wales Week co-founders Dan Langford because I should have thought that he would be the first and Mike Jordan on again providing excellent opportunities to agree with me that a nation that leaves a union will to celebrate Welsh business and culture in London and want full control of its regulatory and trade policy. That 21 other places around the world. I am sure the Minister is a matter of principle, which I would have expected he will also agree that his Government have a crucial part and his colleagues to be in full agreement with. to play in supporting Welsh businesses by ensuring that they are not undermined by future trade negotiations. Andrew Rosindell: I share the Minister’s enthusiasm Will he reassure us that, in pursuit of trade agreements that we can now exceed EU regulations—that is, have with both Trump’s America and our nearest trading better regulations than those set by the EU. Does he market, the EU, the Government will not trade off agree, though, that the Government’s agenda is proof of Welsh animal welfare and food standards in favour of our commitment to maintaining the existing high standards chlorinated chicken? that are independent of EU law, and that it is not only Simon Hart: I can absolutely offer that guarantee; it businesses that could benefit from that regulatory is a repeat of the guarantee that has been offered by my divergence? right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and, indeed, the Prime Minister David T. C. Davies: I fully agree with my hon. Friend. himself. Outside the European Union, we are looking forward to exercising the freedom to set some of the highest Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): standards in the world on animal welfare, health and A lot of the strength of the mid-Wales economy is safety and workers’ rights, thus making Britain one of predicated on trade with border towns such as Shrewsbury, the best places in the world in which to live, work and which is currently very badly flooded. Does the Minister invest. accept that more needs to be done between his Department and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab): Tomorrow, Affairs to work together to alleviate the terrible problems the Government will publish their position on the EU of flooding on both sides of our border? trade negotiations. That is of particular importance to the automotive sector in Wales. Just to give the Minister Simon Hart: My hon. Friend makes a very good point. an example, if there were to be 5% tariffs on import/exports The answer is yes. The answer lies in greater collaboration and 2.5% on components, it could add £1,000 to the and co-operation across a wide range of agencies, and costs of production on a car and put jobs at risk. So can even those that he has mentioned. I believe we are he confirm that the Government are seeking tariff-free learning some stark and important lessons from this, access for the automotive sector to the single market and I agree with his assessment. and that, if that is not obtained, the Government will have a contingency plan in place to support jobs in that Regulatory Divergence from the EU sector in Wales?

3. Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and David T. C. Davies: The hon. Gentleman is right to Kirkintilloch East) (SNP): What assessment he has made raise the importance of the automotive sector to south of the potential effect on the Welsh economy of regulatory Wales and he is correct in saying that the Government divergence from the EU. [900898] are seeking a full free trade arrangement that will allow 303 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 304 full access to the European market. If for any reason The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): As the EU does not realise that that is in its interests—it this is a reserved matter and is currently not Government exports more cars and automotive parts to us than we policy, I have no plans to discuss this with the Welsh do to the EU—I cannot absolutely say what will happen, Government. but it will be at the forefront of my mind and the minds of all my colleagues that we would want to support the Mr Bone: Well, the Secretary of State needs to change automotive industry in south Wales. his mind. Wales has one of the lowest numbers of bank holidays in Europe. Some countries in Europe have Cross-border Transport Links twice the number. What has he got against giving workers in Wales an extra day off? 5. Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire) (Con): What assessment he has made of the adequacy of Simon Hart: I suppose this was inevitable in a way. cross-border transport links between Wales and (a) Reading, My experience of businesses and residents in Wales is (b) Farnborough, (c) Guildford and (d) Gatwick Airport. simple: they have an exciting future and are keen to get [900900] on with the new opportunities that face them. They do not request or want extra opportunities to reminisce The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales about the past. (David T. C. Davies): Earlier this week, we announced 2,000 extra weekday seats on CrossCountry trains between Mr Speaker: I call the Secretary of State to reply to Cardiff and the midlands. We have already reduced Question 7. [Interruption.]. Minister or Secretary of State? journey times by 14 minutes on the Great Western main [HON.MEMBERS: “Get on with it!”] Someone answer the line between Swansea and London, and connectivity to question. It is Question 7 from John Spellar. north Wales will benefit from the introduction of HS2, which will shorten journey times and drive economic growth throughout the region. Public Bodies: Buying British

Mr Jayawardena: I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. 7.JohnSpellar(Warley)(Lab):WhatstepshisDepartment As well as rail links—not just the ones he mentioned, is taking to encourage public bodies in Wales to buy but the offshoots from the Great Western line to Guildford British goods, products and services. [900902] and Gatwick—does he agree that to unleash Wales’ potential it will be critical to improve links between the M3 and M4, as Transport for the South East has recently The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): Apologies, recommended? Mr Speaker, for the novice performance from the Front Bench. David T. C. Davies: My hon. Friend is absolutely Now is an excellent opportunity for public bodies, right to draw attention to the importance of the road Departments such as the Ministry of Defence and the network, particularly the M4, to increasing economic NHS to buy British goods, products and services. Projects productivity in Wales. I hope that Labour Members are such as the £500 million F-35 repair programme in aware of the importance of the M4 and will encourage north Wales and the 2 million tonnes of steel needed for the Welsh Labour Government to accept the borrowing HS2 have the potential to level up regions and strengthen made available to them to build the M4 relief road in the Union. south Wales. John Spellar: In an answer a few minutes ago, the Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): The western rail Secretary of State’s ministerial colleague was extolling link to Heathrow would really help people travelling the importance of the automotive industry to Wales, yet from Heathrow to south Wales and could get passengers Welsh police forces are buying heavily from France and from Reading to Heathrow in less than 30 minutes, but Germany. Given that we have come out of the EU, progress has been badly delayed. When will the construction should we not be taking the opportunity in that sector work on the line properly begin? and across public procurement to support British jobs and workers? David T. C. Davies: I am unable to say when exactly it will begin, but I can assure the hon. Member that it is Simon Hart: I can completely agree with the right our policy to make sure it begins. I fully recognise the hon. Gentleman, and that opportunity is now simpler, importance of the links between Heathrow and Reading given that we have left the EU. Our job here and with and the importance of that for the rail network across the Welsh Government is to make sure that those Wales, which will see £1.5 billion spent on it during control procurement rules reflect the fantastic products Wales period 6. Overall, he will welcome the fact that we are has to offer. making the biggest investment in our rail infrastructure in the country since Victorian times. Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con): Welsh construction and civil engineering firms frequently complain that Bank Holiday: 23 June EU procurement regulations effectively preclude them from bidding for contracts in Wales. Can my right hon. 6. Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): If he will Friend confirm that, when we have completed the hold discussions with the Welsh Government on the transitional process, everything possible will be done to potential merits of the creation of a UK bank holiday ensure that Welsh firms have the chance to bid for those on 23 June each year. [900901] contracts? 305 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 306

Simon Hart: Absolutely. I could not agree with my David T.C. Davies: Wecertainly recognise the importance right hon. Friend more. That is one of the great benefits of those east-west links in both north and south Wales, of leaving the European Union. as will be clear from the improvements in the rail and road infrastructure and the growth deals. I recently had Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): If we want to a chance to see cross-border working in action when maximise the benefits of HS2 for Wales, which will Dwˆr Cymru was taking water in from English counties require about 3 million tonnes of steel and new high-speed in order to ensure that fresh water continued to run trains, will the Secretary of State lobby the Department in Monmouth after the floods, and I pay tribute to it for Transport to procure Welsh and UK steel and trains for that, but I can assure my hon. Friend that we will from CAF in Newport for the project? recognise the importance and benefits of cross-border working because we are a Unionist party. Simon Hart: Yes, that will definitely be an objective of the UK Government. As the hon. Lady knows, we take Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): As the Secretary the future of the steel industry in Wales extremely of State will know, Henry VII landed next door to his seriously, and I want to ensure that every opportunity it constituency, and he grew up in in Raglan Castle, in the has to contribute to UK infrastructure projects is taken. Minister’s constituency. He then gained the crown at Bosworth Field, which brought about the Tudor dynasty. Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con): Crickhowell, Has the Minister considered promoting the history of in my constituency, was badly affected by last week’s our modern royal family by creating a Henry VII trail? floods, and we have a lot of small businesses struggling to get back on their feet. Along with public bodies, will David T. C. Davies: That is an excellent and interesting the Secretary of State join me in urging all consumers to idea. I know that the hon. Gentleman is an expert on buy British and buy local? sporting history and the contribution that boxing has Simon Hart: I know that my hon. Friend’s constituency made in Wales, but I had not realised that he was also was particularly hard hit by recent weather events, and interested in Tudor history. I look forward to discussing her recognition of that is to be commended. I also that with him outside the Chamber. completely agree that everything we need to do as a UK Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con): My hon. Government, in collaboration with our colleagues in Friend said that he recognised the east-west links between Cardiff—I keep making this point—will deliver the sort north and south Wales and England, but links with of result that she is seeking. mid-Wales are also important. The Cambrian line—the Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC): We know that for every Shrewsbury-to-Aberystwyth line—needs a signalling pound spent with a small or medium-sized enterprise upgrade. Will he convene a meeting with me and other 63p is re-spent in the local area, as opposed to some 40p interested parties? for every pound spent with a larger chain or business. David T. C. Davies: It is always a pleasure to meet my What steps will the Government take to enable public hon. Friend, who has done a fantastic job in lobbying bodies in Wales to buy more local goods, products and for better east-west links in his own constituency, and I services? shall look forward with interest to hearing what he has Simon Hart: Part of the problem has been caused by to say.No doubt those in the Treasury and the Department the restrictions imposed on us by our relationship with for Transport will also take a keen in interest in the subject. Europe. The change in those terms will free up the opportunity for the UK and Welsh Governments to Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Wales took the brunt ensure that procurement rules are changed as well, and of the storm last week, and hundreds of people in my to unpick the problems to which the hon. Gentleman constituency lost absolutely everything, because they has referred. have had to make a choice between buying food and paying the insurance bill, and they are completely uninsured. Cross-Border Working Rhondda Cynon Taff Council alone—just one local authority—is going to have a bill of £30 million. What 8. Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con): What steps he is is the point of a United Kingdom if the United Kingdom taking with the Welsh Government to strengthen cross- will not stand by Wales financially when we really border working. [900903] need it? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales David T. C. Davies: As my right hon. Friend the (David T. C. Davies): I have already held constructive Secretary of State has already said, he has had meetings discussions with Welsh Government Ministers on various with the First Minister. At the moment, there is no way issues, including cities and regional growth deals, which of knowing exactly what the cost of those floods will have the potential to create jobs and economic growth be—I know that the chief executive of Monmouthshire in Wales and strengthen cross-border working to benefit was unable to tell me—except that it will run into both sides of the border. millions of pounds. We have already moved to ensure that people who receive compensation will not see any Robin Millar: Many residents of Aberconwy, and, impact on their benefits. We absolutely stand with Wales, indeed, north Wales as a whole, rely on good road and but as the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, it would be rail links along the north Wales coast. Does the Minister impossible for us to go marching into Wales to tell the recognise the importance of that east-west axis and the Welsh Government what to do in what is a devolved connections that it offers with England so that people area. We stand ready to support the Welsh Government can have contact with families, public services, work in any way, but they need to come forward with a set of and, dare I say, even the Crewe hub as part of HS2? costs and explain exactly how that money will be spent. 307 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 308

Victims of Sexual Violence Secretary of State impress on the First Minister the importance not only of the economic benefits that the 9. Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): What recent armed forces bring to the community but of the role discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for that they play in the defence of our nation? Justice on the Government’s support for victims of sexual violence in Wales. [900904] Simon Hart: I can absolutely offer that guarantee, and I can go a little bit further. The blockage between The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): I am the MOD and the Welsh Government has started to proud that this Government have recently announced loosen, and there now seems to be some progress. I very that victims of rape and sexual assault will be helped by much hope that we can achieve the objective that my a 50% funding boost for specialist support services. right hon. Friend wants, which is a substantial military That will provide additional funding for the vital services footprint at St Athan. offered at six rape support centres across Wales. Cross-border Rail Virginia Crosbie: I welcome the Government’s announcement, which will go some way towards ensuring 11. Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) that more people receive the support and advice that (Lab/Co-op): What recent discussions he has had with they need in order to recover. I am also pleased to hear the Secretary of State for Transport on improving cross- that two of the support centres that will benefit from border rail services. [900907] this funding are in north Wales. In November last year, the Wales Audit Office reported that victims and survivors The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales of domestic abuse and sexual violence were being let (David T. C. Davies): The Secretary of State for Wales is down by inconsistent, complex and short-term services due to meet the Secretary for State for Transport in the in Wales. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need coming weeks, when they will discuss how we can build to work towards having a Wales where no one is turned on the new superfast rail service between south Wales away? and London and the improved connectivity that HS2 will bring to north Wales. Simon Hart: I can reassure my hon. Friend that that is the shared ambition and intention of the UK Stephen Doughty: Of course, I am talking about Government. May I also commend her for bringing this south Wales, and I am sure that the Minister will matter to the House’s attention? There are few more welcome the support that the Welsh Labour Government important issues facing us at the moment. are giving to the St Mellons parkway project to the east of Cardiff. Will he ensure, in his discussions with the Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Last Secretary of State for Transport, that as many GWR year, thousands of cases of revenge porn were brought cross-border services as possible can stop there, as well forward to the police in Wales, but only a handful of as services from competitors? those cases went to court, because victims do not have the advantage of anonymity and also have to prove David T. C. Davies: The hon. Gentleman makes an malicious intent. Will the Secretary of State ensure that important point, and I would be happy to discuss it he has discussions with the relevant Minister on the with him. I can absolutely assure him of our commitment forthcoming online harms Bill, so that the problem of to rail infrastructure in south Wales as well as in north women in particular being subjected to internet porn— Wales, which is why we have spent an extra £1.5 billion basically, pornography being thrown out on to the during this control period and laid on thousands of internet without their consent—is sorted out properly? extra seats between London and south Wales. Simon Hart: I can absolutely offer that guarantee. PIP Assessment Centre: Accessibility Military Bases 12. Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): What recent discussions 10. Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): What he has had with the Secretary of State for Work and recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of Pensions on the location of an accessible personal State for Defence on the future of military bases in independence payment assessment centre for disabled Wales. [900906] and vulnerable claimants in north-west Wales. [900908]

The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): I was The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): I have fortunate enough to visit St Athan last week, where written to the relevant DWP Minister, and I know that I met my right hon. Friend the Member for Vale of he has plans to meet local MPs to discuss assessment Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) and military personnel. My centre access in the region. The Government will support officials have been working closely with Ministry of Capita to ensure that it finds a suitable, long-term site in Defence and Welsh Government officials to secure the north Wales. future of bases in Wales, and they are making good progress with St Athan. Hywel Williams: The disability centre, which moved to Rhyl without consultation, is now back in Bangor in Alun Cairns: MOD St Athan has been designated a my constituency, housed temporarily in a museum. key element of the defence estate across the United Does the Secretary of State agree that that would also Kingdom, but the Welsh Government are refusing our be an apt location for the Government’s disability benefits armed forces ongoing use of their existing site. Will the system? 309 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 310

Simon Hart: I agree; I have taken the hon. Gentleman’s The Prime Minister: Since the flooding began, this observations seriously. The situation has not been Government have been working flat out night and day satisfactory in parts, but I hope that there is now some to ensure that the people of this country get the support movement in a positive direction. they need. We have activated the Bellwin scheme, ensured that businesses get the rate relief that they need and, as I told the House just now, put £2.6 billion into flood defences, with £4 billion more to come. PRIME MINISTER Jeremy Corbyn: “You can’t give local authorities the The Prime Minister was asked— clear message you are going to support them and then turn your back on them”—not my words, but the words Engagements of a Conservative council leader.When I visited Pontypridd last week, I saw at first hand the damage and destruction Q1. [900846] Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con): If he will that the floods have caused to people’s lives, homes and list his official engagements for Wednesday 26 February. businesses, but the Prime Minister was silent, sulking in his grace-and-favour mansion in Chevening. After two The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson): The whole House weeks of flooding, memes are being produced, asking will want to join me in extending our condolences to the not, “Where’s Wally?” but, “Where’s Boris?” When is he families and friends of those who sadly lost their lives as going to stop hiding and show people that he actually a result of Storm Ciara and Storm Dennis. We will also cares, or is he too busy going about some other business? want to thank all those who are providing support to If he is too busy, he could send his chief adviser, tackle the impact of the storms, including the Environment Dominic Cummings. I am sure that he would be very Agency, local authorities, our emergency services and well received in all the flooded areas. our armed forces. This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues The Prime Minister: I am very proud of the response and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I that the Government have mounted over the past few shall have further such meetings later today. days. We convened the national flood response centre Philip Dunne: I associate myself with the Prime Minister’s on 14 February. Since the flooding began, there has thanks to all those helping in the aftermath of Storm been a constant stream of ministerial activity led by my Dennis—[Interruption.] It has brought record high water right hon. Friends the Secretaries of State for Environment, levels in the Rivers Severn and Trent, and over 100 properties Food and Rural Affairs and for Housing, Communities in my constituency have been flooded, bringing misery and Local Government. No one should underestimate to those affected. As we speak, the Severn has just the anguish that flooding causes, and of course it is an breached its banks at Bridgnorth. Will the Prime Minister absolute shock to the households that are affected, but use his influence in the Budget and in the comprehensive it is thanks to the measures that this Government have spending review later this year to increase infrastructure put in place that 200,000 households have been protected spending on flood defences for at-risk communities as from flooding. We do not hear that from the right hon. part of his determination, in this year of COP26, to Member. show global leadership in taking action on climate change adaptation and mitigation? Jeremy Corbyn: During the election campaign, I wrote to the Prime Minister demanding that Cobra be convened The Prime Minister: Indeed I can, and I thank my to deal with the floods at that time. He very reluctantly right hon. Friend. We have been ensuring that the agreed and eventually did call a meeting of Cobra. The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government situation across the country is now even worse than it is able to extend the Bellwin scheme where appropriate. was then, and no Cobra meeting has been called. Is he Of course, we are also investing massively in flood just pretending to care when he does not really care at defences—£2.6 billion has already gone in and, as he all, because there are no votes on the line at this moment? knows, we have pledged to commit another £4 billion to defend this country against flooding. The Prime Minister: As the right hon. Gentleman Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): My thoughts knows perfectly well, there has been a stream of ministerial are with those across the world who are suffering from meetings since the flooding began. The national flood the coronavirus. I praise medical and emergency staff response centre was convened on 14 February, and I all over the world for what they are doing to try to stop have been directing things, as he perfectly knows. Cobra the spread of the disease. I hope that public health is a reference to Cabinet Office briefing room A, which services in Britain will get the resources they need; there is not the only room in which meetings can take place. is an urgent question on this topic after Prime Minister’s Question Time—[HON.MEMBERS: “It is a statement.”] Jeremy Corbyn: The issue is very serious for people Thousands of people across the country are still around the country whose homes are being flooded. struggling with the devastating impact of the floods. I They need help and support. They do not need trite pay tribute to the work of the Environment Agency, the answers like that from their Prime Minister. Scottish and Welsh Governments, council staff, the fire Time and again, communities and lives are being put service, and the huge number of community volunteers at risk and the Government simply refuse to acknowledge who have pitched in to help their neighbours. Does the the scale of the problem. Does he agree with his hon. Prime Minister agree with the Conservative leader of Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), who Derbyshire County Council that he has turned his back said the Government have done “precious little” to stop on the people affected by the floods? the floods happening again? 311 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 312

The Prime Minister: Let me repeat for the benefit of The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman asks the right hon. Gentleman that this Government have a what this Government have been doing in the past few fantastic record of investing in flood defences and will days, so let me tell him. Not only have we been investing continue to do so. The reason we can do so, the reason massively in flood defences and compensating those we have been able to commit £2.6 billion for flood who have suffered from flooding, but we have been defences and the reason we are able to pledge another stopping the early release of terrorists; we have restored £4 billion is because this Government are running a strong, the nurses’ bursary; we are beginning work on 40 new successful and robust economy, which he would ruin. hospitals; and we are recruiting 20,000 more police officers. We can do that because we have a strong and Jeremy Corbyn: If that is the case, why are the dynamic economy, with employment at record highs, Government investing less than half the money the unemployment down to the lowest levels since the early Environment Agency of England says is necessary to ’70s, wages going up and home ownership up. What are improve flood defences across the country? It says that the Opposition doing? They are still deciding— £5.6 billion is needed. So far as I am aware, the Government [Interruption.] Listen to them jabbering away. are investing less than half of that. I have visited many areas and many households, and Mr Speaker: Order. I think we will have a little more do you know what, I have learned a lot from visiting the silence on the second row. victims of floods—the Prime Minister should try it one day. They have told me that they cannot afford the The Prime Minister: Quite right, Mr Speaker. They insurance on their homes, as costs have skyrocketed. are jabbering away, because they still cannot decide Recent studies have shown that 20,000 homes are whether or not they want to be in the European Union, not protected by the Government’s insurance scheme and the hottest topic of debate in the Labour party is and are also not protected by flood defences. That is what job the right hon. Gentleman should have in the 20,000 homes with no insurance and in danger of being shadow Cabinet after the leadership election. They are flooded imminently.Is it not time that the Prime Minister engaging themselves in narcissistic debate about the found a very urgent solution to this problem? Labour party. We are getting on in delivering on the people’s priorities. Just imagine what it is like to live in a home that is in danger of being flooded when you cannot get it insured Q5. [900850] Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) and, if you own it, you cannot sell it or cannot move—you (Con): The Prime Minister will be aware of the concern are totally stuck. They are looking for the Government in settled rural communities such as those in my to help them out at their time of crisis. constituency because of the intentional unauthorised development of Traveller sites. That leads to large numbers The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman is perfectly of lorries and caravans coming on to land where there is right in the sense that there are particular problems to no planning permission and, subsequently, the ignoring do with insurance, as anybody who has visited a flood- of enforcement when the local authority tries to intervene. affected household will know. Flood Re, on the other The Government have said that they will bring forward hand, has provided cover for over 164,000 households measures to try to tackle these planning issues. Will the since 2018-19. Prime Minister put his authority behind this and get it Since last December’s events, we are now looking at sorted out? what we can do to protect households that do not have proper insurance, but the right hon. Gentleman also The Prime Minister: I take that issue very seriously, knows that there are measures in place to ensure that and I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for householders get £500 and £5,000 to compensate themselves raising it. We are giving local authorities more powers for the worst damage that flooding can do. That is cash to reject intentional unauthorised development, and we we can put in thanks to the investment we have made in will consulting on the details of those proposals in a flood defences, which, believe me, would be beyond the forthcoming White Paper. I hope he will contribute to capacity of any Government led by the right hon. Member. those consultations.

Jeremy Corbyn: The Welsh Government have done Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP): This their best to step up to the crisis, despite the underfunding week, we learned that 40% of small businesses in Scotland from Westminster. The Prime Minister was keen to pose employ more than one EU national. Immigration is for cameras when there was a crisis on during the crucial for Scotland’s economy, so it is no wonder that election, but he often goes AWOL: he was late to the Scottish Government’s proposals for a Scottish visa respond to the London riots because he was on holiday; system have been universally welcomed by businesses he was on a private island when the Iranian general was and charities alike—even the Scottish Tories think it is a assassinated; and last week he had his head in the sand good idea. The Prime Minister rejected these proposals in a mansion in Kent. The hon. Member for Calder within a few short hours. Does he now admit that that Valley (Craig Whittaker), another of his colleagues, was a mistake? said that it “is not good enough”. How can the country trust a Prime Minister, a part-time Prime Minister, who The Prime Minister: It was not only I who rejected last night was schmoozing Tory party donors at a very the proposals, but, of course, the Migration Advisory expensive black-tie ball instead of getting out there and Committee. That is because we are bringing forward a supporting the people who are suffering because of the very sensible proposal, which the people of this country floods? This Government need to step up to the plate, have long desired, whereby we take back control of our invest in defences and ensure that there is real insurance immigration system with a points-based system. The for people whose homes are being ruined by these floods right hon. Gentleman has important concerns to raise, as we speak. and we will ensure that everywhere in this country—all 313 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 314 businesses, all agricultural sectors and all the fishing The Prime Minister: Let us be absolutely clear that I communities of this country—will be able to access the certainly do not share those views, and nor are they the labour and the workforce that is needed, under our views of anybody in this Government. That individual points-based system. But what would be the height of no longer works for the Government. insanity would be to proceed with the Scottish National party’s solution of a border at Berwick between England Q9. [900854] Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con): Does the and Scotland. Prime Minister agree that through the establishment of the Office for Environmental Protection, which will Ian Blackford: Once again, the Prime Minister shows hold this and future Governments to their environmental that he is utterly delusional. Let us look at the reality: commitments, it is the Conservatives who are driving Scottish Care has said that the Prime Minister’s damaging the environmental agenda? Will he join me in commending immigration plans “shut the door” on enabling people the Conservative-led Solihull Borough Council for its to be cared for in their own home. The general secretary commitment to be carbon neutral by 2030? of the GMB union says that the plans The Prime Minister: It of course brings me great joy “could genuinely tip some businesses over the edge.” to congratulate Solihull Borough Council on its path- Scotland’s National Farmers Union says that its evidence breaking leadership. The council is of course following has been “disregarded” by the UK Government. The in the footsteps of the national Government and my right Scottish Tourism Alliance says that the plans will have a hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), devastating impact on Scotland’sworkforce. Senior figures who led the way in setting a target for carbon zero by in the UK Government have said that what the Scottish 2050. This Conservative Government are going to leave Parliament decides “doesn’t matter one jot”; if the our country and our environment in a better state for Prime Minister thinks that the Scottish Parliament does the next generation. not matter, do Scottish businesses matter? Q3. [900848] Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire The Prime Minister: Of course Scottish businesses South) (SNP): I have a pregnant constituent with her matter, and the way to do well by them would not be to due date in the next couple of weeks. She is currently tax them with the highest tax rates in the UK; it would on universal credit, and after deductions, including for be to run a sound economy in Scotland and to have an an advance, she is left with the grand sum of £111 a educational system that does not leave Scottish children month to feed herself, heat her home and prepare for lagging behind through no fault of their own. This her child. I know that the Prime Minister will likely Government will get on and deliver a working immigration want more details about this case, and we will be happy system for the whole of this country. [Interruption.] to help, but I want to ask him whether, in principle, as The right hon. Gentleman shouts at me from a sedentary the Prime Minister, he thinks that £111 a month is position, but he would be better off getting on with enough for anyone to live on. delivering for the people of Scotland, rather than continuing with his ceaseless and vain quest to break up the United The Prime Minister: I am of course very happy Kingdom, because he will not succeed. indeed to look at that case and for us to do whatever we can to help with that individual case, but I must say to Q7. [900852] Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con): This is a the hon. Lady that, in the round, universal credit has Government who are delivering for the people, so I am helped and is helping 200,000 people into work. An sure the Prime Minister shares my concerns about the estimated 1 million disabled households will get around delay in the delivery of the Maidstone East line, which £100 more per month as a result of universal credit. I runs through my constituency and others. Will he am proud to stand by our record of helping people into intervene to ensure that there are no further delays on work and off welfare. As I said before, I am more than this vital railway line? happy to look at the case— Mhairi Black: Answer the question. The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for rightly raising the issue of rail connections between The Prime Minister: The answer to her question, in a Maidstone East and the City.In addition to the £48 billion word, is no. we are putting into the railways, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport has just indicated Q11. [900856] Ben Bradley (Mansfield) (Con): Does my to me that those connections are his highest priority. right hon. Friend agree that the people of Mansfield who, like many millions across the country, previously Q2. [900847] Martin Docherty-Hughes (West voted Labour but have now put their faith in a Dunbartonshire) (SNP): Graham was born with cerebral Conservative Government to deliver are not, in fact, palsy, unable to talk, walk or feed himself. He brought traitors,astheywerebrandedbymembersof theOpposition joy and love to all who knew him. Last week, one of the this week? In fact, this Government and Conservative Prime Minister’s advisers resigned when a basic check Members respect these hard-working people and their of their internet history revealed that they had promoted communities and respect their choices and we will deliver eugenicist policies—the sort that would have ended my for them. brother Graham Docherty’s life before it began. Will the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom advise the The Prime Minister: I am not going to comment on House and every disabled person on this island why the vituperation that is meted out by the Opposition Andrew Sabisky remained at the heart of his Government party, but what I will say is that all voters should be and was not removed from their position immediately treated with respect and with humility. I congratulate when their abhorrent views became apparent? my hon. Friend on the hard work that he is doing for 315 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 316 thepeopleof Mansfield:£10millionforWestNottinghamshire ThePrimeMinister:Ican,of course,givethatcommitment College; £20 million for road improvements; £5 million when the moment is right. for proactive lung-health screenings; and up to £50 million in a new town deal and future high streets fund. In my Q8. [900853] Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): The view, the people of Mansfield are well served by him. Prime Minister has a laundry list of climate promises. No doubt he will read them out shortly, but he cannot Q4. [900849] Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab): Like many escape the fact that, on current rate of progress, net other sub-postmasters, my constituent Chris Head was zero will not be reached until 2099—not the 2050 that victim to the Post Office Horizon IT system scandal. he claims, let alone the 2030 that we probably need. These errors have resulted in bankruptcies, imprisonment Even J. P. Morgan says that human life, as we know it, and even suicide. Will the Prime Minister today assure is under threat. The Prime Minister cannot be a climate Chris and others that he will commit to launching an denier, can he, so when will he take climate crisis independent inquiry? seriously?

The Prime Minister: I am indeed aware of the scandal The Prime Minister: These are not promises: these are to which the hon. Lady alludes and the disaster that has what we have already done. It is thanks to Conservative befallen many Post Office workers—I have met some of action on climate change that we have reduced CO2 output them myself. I am happy to commit to getting to the by 43% on 1990 levels since 2010, and the economy has bottom of the matter in the way that she recommends. grown by 73%. Some 99% of all the solar panels installed in this country have happened under this Conservative Q13. [900858] Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stocksbridge) Government. In 1990, this country was 70% dependent (Con): For someone living in one of the rural villages in on coal: today, it is 3%—and Labour would reopen the my constituency, it can take a whole day to travel to and coalmines. from a hospital appointment, because bus services are so few and far between. As a fellow bus enthusiast, will Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): John my right hon. Friend assure me that some of the £5 billion Downey, the IRA terrorist responsible for the Hyde in the pipeline for bus services will go towards improving Park bombing in 1982, which killed 11 soldiers, received routes in Penistone and Stocksbridge? a letter of comfort from the Government and his trial collapsed. Corporal Dennis Hutchings received a letter The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely in 1974 saying that he would not be prosecuted in right about the vital importance of buses and their connection with a shooting incident that took place transformative power, but as for the detail about what in Northern Ireland. He was then investigated again in will happen in Penistone and Stocksbridge, she will 2011 and told there were no further grounds for taking have to await the upcoming national bus strategy, which any action. Does the Prime Minister accept that if will be along very shortly. Dennis Hutchings goes to trial on 9 March, all the assurances, promises and manifesto commitments Q6. [900851] Sir Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) will amount to nothing more than meaningless empty (LD): Before the previous successful climate change platitudes? talks in 2015 in Paris, I led the British preparations, including the delegations, of the three preceding UN climate talks. Global action on climate change only The Prime Minister: It is to rectify matters such as the happens when the host nation engages with the world’s one to which my hon. Friend draws the House’s attention largest nations in advance at the highest political level. that this Government are finally bringing in a law to As the host of the 2020 climate talks, will the Prime prevent the vexatious prosecution of our hard-working, Minister today publicly commit himself to meeting hard-serving veterans when no new evidence has been President Xi of China, Prime Minister Modi of India produced. and US President Trump to secure for the Glasgow talks global action on the climate emergency? Q10. [900855] Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): Yesterday’s press showed the widening health The Prime Minister: I am grateful to the right hon. inequalities between the richest and poorest. The money Gentleman for his question. I can tell him and the promised to Epsom and St Helier trust could have House that, of course,I have engaged—just last week—with addressed that issue in my area, but instead the NHS is President Xi of China, repeatedly with Prime Minister removing services from the poorest areas and sending Modi of India and also, of course, with President them to leafy Belmont, which has the longest life expectancy. Trump on this subject, but there will be an intensifying St Helier Hospital will become a glorified walk-in drumbeat of activity in the run-up to Glasgow. centre—no A&E, no maternity unit, no children’s services and 62% of beds gone. Will the Prime Minister reassure Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con): My me that he will look at this to show that much does not right hon. Friend will no doubt remember with the have to always get more? same fondness the conversations that we had when he was outlining his plan for global Britain. I welcome The Prime Minister: In addition to the 40 new hospitals very much what he has been saying about the defence that we are building—[Interruption.] Yes. As part of review that is now planned and his priority on having a the £33.9 billion initial investment that we are making—the strategy first foreign policy-led review. Will he please record investment that we are making in the NHS—I make a statement to this House so that the views of this can tell the hon. Lady that Epsom and St Helier University House can be heard, bringing together trade, aid, foreign Hospitals NHS Trust will receive £500 million to redevelop affairs and, of course, defence? its estate and world-class facilities on that site. 317 Oral Answers 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 318

Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con): Will the The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman raises a Prime Minister promise to resist in all circumstances the crucial issue that I am particularly concerned to defend sell-out of our fishing communities, so that we can and advance. That is why I was pleased to appoint my ensure that on 1 January next year we take back control hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham of our fishing waters and become an independent coastal (Rehman Chishti) as our special envoy for freedom of state once again? religion or belief. I would be more than happy to meet the hon. Gentleman to discuss protecting those of a The Prime Minister: I will indeed, and I hope that my Christian faith in India and around the world. right hon. Friend’s words were listened to very carefully by members of the Scottish National party, because Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): they would hand back control of our fishing to Brussels. The Prime Minister will know of the appalling misery that the residents of Shrewsbury are facing, with the Q12. [900857] Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) deluge of floods that have affected our town. I am (Lab): There are families and businesses in my pleased that the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, constituency who have been left devastated after Storm Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member Dennis tore through their properties. The strength of for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow), who is the Minister our Union is based on sharing resources at people’s for flooding, is visiting Shrewsbury tomorrow; she is time of need, but so far not a penny announced by the doing an excellent job. Will the Prime Minister ensure United Kingdom Government would benefit Wales, that the proposals put forward to the Government for a where the cost of repair will be hundreds of millions of more holistic approach to managing the River Severn pounds. The Prime Minister talks the talk on the are looked at seriously because Shrewsbury cannot Union, but will he today give a cast-iron guarantee that continue to suffer this level of economic damage, with he will provide the major new funding that Wales needs repeated floods? to recover from the floods? The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise the concerns of the people of Shrewsbury. The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is right to Everybody can see how serious the problem now is with raise the issue of flooding in Wales. Of course it is a the Severn. I will ensure that the Department for devolved matter, but none the less the Government are Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, working with the committed to working flat out with the Welsh Environment Agency, takes the necessary steps. Administration to ensure that everybody gets the flood relief that they need. Yes, of course, that cash certainly Q15. [900860] Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): Sir Michael will be passported through. Marmot’s damning findings outline the devastating impact that a decade of this Government’s cuts has had Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con): Dudley is set on a constituency such as mine in Gateshead. Since to receive £25 million investment via the Government’s 2010, Gateshead Council’s spending power has been cut towns fund, and we are looking to use the money to in real terms by around 50%, or £160 million a year. secure a university campus near the town centre. Will Our local safety net has been removed. What does the the Prime Minister lend his support to this scheme in Prime Minister intend to do as a matter of urgency to order to level up and generate greater opportunity for reduce the stark and worsening health and life expectancy Dudley people and the greater Black Country? inequality between north and south, rich and poor, so that people in the poorest areas of my constituency can The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for what expect to live as healthily and as long as those in the he is doing to champion Dudley and the Black Country, most affluent areas of his constituency? and I will certainly look at what I can do—is it to be there in person? Is that what he is asking for? The Prime Minister: Actually, I have the highest respect for Professor Marmot and did a lot of work with him in Marco Longhi indicated assent. London—we did a huge amount there to reduce health inequalities and inequalities in life expectancy—but I The Prime Minister: Be careful what you wish for! I do not deny that there is more to be done. That is why will look at what I can do to be there in person and this Government are absolutely committed to uniting support what sounds like an excellent scheme. and levelling up across our country, with the biggest ever investments in the NHS and massive investments in Q14. [900859] David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): As education and early years provision. I make absolutely we have seen today, religious intolerance in India is on no apology for the campaign for levelling up that we are the rise—whether through the anti-Muslim citizenship about to undertake. Let me repeat this point to the laws, or Christians whose prayer meetings are disturbed House: there is only one way we can fund and achieve and who are then subjected to brutal beatings. Will the this aim, and that is to have a strong and dynamic Prime Minister agree to meet me and representatives economy. I would rather have a country and a society from Christian Solidarity Worldwide to look more closely where we believed in hope, opportunity and the importance at the issue and ensure that India upholds freedom of of work, rather than welfare and benefits, and that is religion or belief? our approach. 319 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Personal Statement 320

Personal Statement wanting to reappoint me, I am afraid that these were conditions that I could not accept in good conscience. I Mr Speaker: I have granted leave to the right hon. do not intend to dwell further on all the details and Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid) to make a personal personalities—[Interruption]—the Cummings and goings, statement following his resignation from the Government. if you will. [Laughter.] Much of this commentary was I remind the House that no debate, nor interventions, just gossip and distraction, and now it is in the past. can arise from such statements. I very much hope that the new Chancellor will be given the space to do his job without fear or favour. I 12.33 pm know this: that my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Rishi Sunak) is more than capable Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): It has been eight of rising to the challenge. He worked for me as a Local years since I last stood to speak as a Back Bencher, and Government Minister and as Chief Secretary, and I it is a privilege to do so again. When I left these could not have asked for a better working relationship. Benches, it was to become a Minister in the Treasury, Indeed, I had lobbied the PM for him to be given the and it seems apt that I went back to whence I came: the role as Chief Secretary, and to keep it at the recent circle of life. I am very proud to represent the good reshuffle—but I did not get my way on that one! people of Bromsgrove, and I will of course continue to do so. I will also continue to champion the causes that I My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has won a believe in most, albeit from outside the Government. I huge mandate to transform our country, and already he confess that I had hoped to have a little longer to make is off to a great start: ending the parliamentary paralysis, a difference from the inside, so—with thanks for your defeating the radical left, getting Brexit done,a points-based permission to make this statement, Mr Speaker—I thought immigration system, and an infrastructure revolution. it would be appropriate to briefly explain, first to the Now our party—our Government—has a huge opportunity House, why I felt that I had to resign as Chancellor of and responsibility ahead. We need a resolute focus on the Exchequer. I would also like to take this opportunity long-term outcomes and delivery,not short-term headlines. to thank all colleagues in this Chamber and beyond for The Treasury as an institution—as an economic Ministry— their messages of thanks in the last two weeks, and to should be the engine that drives this new agenda. Since thank my family for their love and patience over the last last summer, it has done just that, from planning properly few years. for Brexit, to bringing in a generational step-change in infrastructure investment; from rewriting the Green I came into politics to give something back to the Book to better favour our regions, to long-term thinking country that has given me so much. While I do not on human capital and designing the blueprint for levelling intend this to be my last chapter in public life, whichever up across our country. I am incredibly proud of the form that may take, I am immensely grateful for the scale and speed of the work that has already been done. trust and the support of colleagues in all the roles that I have had. After first holding two ministerial positions But the Treasury must also be allowed to play its role within the Treasury, and then returning as Chancellor, I as a finance Ministry, with the strength and credibility have had the huge privilege of running four Departments. that it requires. I am a proud, low-tax Conservative, and Each taught me more than the last, and it shaped my I always will be. Already, our tax burden is the highest it understanding of government. I can look back and say has been in 50 years. It is fair to say that not everyone at to myself, very sincerely, that I have never once made a the centre of Government always feels the pressure to decision—or, indeed, given advice on a decision—that I balance the books—it was ever thus. But the Treasury did not believe was in the national interest. You see, has a job to do. It is the only tax-cutting Ministry. Every Britain’s democracy and economy are strong because of other Department has an in-built incentive to seek and its institutions and its people. Conservatives especially spend ever more money—not that I did that when I ran believe that no particular person, or even a Government, Departments, of course. I see that my right hon. Friend has a monopoly on the best ideas. It is through these the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) is agreeing checks and balances of credible institutions—be it the with that. But trade-offs have to be made somewhere. Treasury, the Bank of England, the Office for Budget At a time when we need to do much more to level up Responsibility, or, indeed, this House—that we arrive at across generations, it would not be right to pass the bill sensible decisions that are in the national interest. for our day-to-day consumption to our children and Now, when reflecting on the dynamic between No. 10 grandchildren. Unlike the US, we do not have the fiscal and No. 11, it is natural to look at past relationships. flexibility that comes with a reserve currency. That is There is no one size that fits. Any model that works, or why the fiscal rules that we are elected on are critical. To does not, depends on the personalities that are involved govern is to choose, and these rules crystallise the just as much as the processes. It depends on the mutual choices that are required to keep spending under control, respect and trust that allows for constructive, creative to keep taxes low, to root out waste and to pass the tension between teams. It is that creative dynamic that litmus test that was rightly set in stone in our manifesto means that it has always been the case that advisers of debt being lower at the end of the Parliament. advise, Ministers decide, and Ministers decide on their While I am of course disappointed not to be finishing advisers. I could not see why the Treasury, with the vital what I started, I look to the future not with apprehension role that it plays, should be the exception to that. A but with great optimism. We on the Government Benches Chancellor, like all Cabinet Ministers, has to be able to have a shot at achieving nothing less than wholesale give candid advice to a Prime Minister so that he is renewal for our economy, our society and our country—a speaking truth to power. I believe that the arrangement chance to give everyone an opportunity to live up to proposed would significantly inhibit that, and it would their full potential, wherever they live and whatever not have been in the national interest. So while I was their background; to put people, place and social justice grateful for the continued trust of the Prime Minister in at the heart of a more human capitalism; and to bring 321 Personal Statement 26 FEBRUARY 2020 322

[Sajid Javid] Coronavirus our country together as one nation. I know that this is a shared vision, and I firmly believe that my right hon. 12.43 pm Friend the Prime Minister has the tenacity, the energy The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and the skill to see it through. I want to leave the House (Matt Hancock): With your permission, Mr Speaker, I in no doubt that he has my full confidence, and the would like to update the House on covid-19, or coronavirus. Government my full support, to get it done. As of this morning, 7,132 people in the UK have been tested for the virus. So far, 13 people in the UK have The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson): On a point of tested positive, of whom eight have now been discharged order, Mr Speaker. Would it be in order for me to thank from hospital. We expect more cases here. As planned, my right hon. Friend for the grace with which he has 115 people left supported isolation at Kents Hill Park in just spoken and his immense service to this country in Milton Keynes on 23 February. All tested negative for several Departments, and to remind him that he has friends covid-19. On Saturday, 32 people from the Diamond and admirers on all sides of the House of Commons? Princess cruise ship were repatriated and taken to Arrowe Park, where they will remain in supported isolation. Mr Speaker: As the Prime Minister knows, that is not Four of those have tested positive and been transferred a point of order, but it will be on the record. to specialist centres. British tourists are currently being quarantined in a hotel in Tenerife, and the Foreign Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ Office is in contact with them. Co-op): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Wehave a clear four-part plan to respond to the outbreak of this disease: contain, delay, research and mitigate. We Several hon. Members rose— are taking all necessary measures to minimise the risk to the public. We have put in place enhanced monitoring Mr Speaker: I am not going to take any more points measures at UK airports, and health information is of order because I want to get the statement under way, availableatallinternationalairports,portsandinternational and points of order will follow. train stations. We have established a supported isolation facility at Heathrow to cater for international passengers who are tested, and to maximise infection control and free up NHS resources. The NHS is testing a very large number of people who have travelled back from affected countries, the vast majority of whom test negative. In the past few days, we have published guidance for schools, employers, first responders, social care and the travel industry on how to handle suspected cases. If anyone has been in contact with a suspected case in a childcare or an educational setting, no special measures are required while test results are awaited. There is no need to close the school or send other students or staff home. Once the results arrive, those who test negative will be advised individually about returning to education. In most cases, closure of the childcare or education setting will be unnecessary, but this will be a local decision based on various factors, including professional advice. Schools should be guided by the advice on the gov.uk website, and contact their regional schools commissioner in case of queries. I can tell the House that in the coming days we will roll out a wider public information campaign. While the Government and the NHS have plans in place for all eventualities, everyone can play their part. To reiterate, our advice is for everyone to take sensible precautions, such as using tissues and washing hands more. Yesterday we updated our advice to returning travellers from northern Italy—defined as anywhere north of, but not including, Pisa and Florence—as well as from Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar. Those returning from Iran, the lockdown areas of northern Italy and the special care zone in South Korea should self-isolate and call NHS 111, even if they have no symptoms. We are working closely with the World Health Organisation, the G7 and the wider international community to ensure that we are ready for all eventualities. We are co-ordinating research efforts with international partners. Our approach has at all times been guided by 323 Coronavirus 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Coronavirus 324 the chief medical officer, working on the basis of the emergency NHS revenue resource in the coming weeks? best possible scientific evidence. The public can be assured Will he update the House on how much has been drawn that we have a clear plan to contain, delay, research and from the capital facility for hospitals to develop specialist mitigate, and that we are working methodically through pods to quarantine patients, which he announced in his each step to keep the public safe. I commend this previous statement? statement to the House. I reiterate that the Opposition want to work constructively with the Government on this issue. We are broadly 12.47 pm supportive of the steps taken by the Secretary of State, and I hope he understands that we are trying to be Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab/Co-op): I constructive in our questions. We continue to thank all thank the Secretary of State for advance notice of his NHS staff for their work at this difficult time. announcement and for sight of his statement. Again, all our thoughts must be with those who have been diagnosed Matt Hancock: I join the hon. Gentleman in reiterating with coronavirus—covid-19—in the UK and across Europe, our thanks to all NHS and Public Health England staff, and again we reiterate our support and put on record and others, who have been working so hard on this our thanks to all NHS staff and public health staff, as issue. I also express my thanks to the hon. Gentleman, well as to the chief medical officer for the leadership he and to every Member of the House with whom my is showing. Ministers and I have had dealings. In each and every The World Health Organisation has warned that case, everyone has taken a responsible and proportionate countries are “simply not ready” for a pandemic. There approach. This is not a political matter; this is a matter has now been significant spread of the virus across the of keeping the public safe, and everybody in this House European continent—in Italy in particular, but other has played their part. cases have been identified in Austria, Croatia and Plans are in place in case of the virus becoming a Switzerland. This is clearly now very serious. Yesterday pandemic, but it is not yet certain that that will happen. there did appear to be a little bit of a discrepancy, if I The plan is still in the phase of “contain”: we aim to may say so, between the travel advice from the CMO contain the virus both abroad and here at home, and and the Secretary of State. Can the Secretary of State prevent it from becoming a pandemic, while of course clarify for the House what exactly the travel advice is for ensuring that plans are in place should that happen. On those travelling or seeking to travel to northern Italy? travel to Italy, our advice is that all but essential travel is I think that would be welcome. not recommended to the quarantined areas of northern Wewelcome the Secretary of State’splans for Heathrow. Italy. The advice for people returning from northern Could he explain to the House why that facility is Italy is clear: those returning from the quarantined areas proposed only for Heathrow, and why similar facilities should self-isolate, and those returning from the rest of will not be in place at other major airports, particularly northern Italy should self-isolate if they have symptoms. the bigger airports such as Manchester and so on. The I hope that advice is clear, and it is available on the Secretary of State mentioned the situation in Tenerife. Government website. We are all obviously very concerned about the situation The hon. Gentleman asked about Heathrow, and we there. Could he offer a little more detail about what have expanded the availability of supported isolation advice and support are being offered to British nationals facilities. Just having Arrowe Park and the facility at at this hotel? Milton Keynes is not appropriate for individual travellers I note what the Secretary of State says about schools, whom we think need to be quarantined, but at the and I entirely understand it, but we do have several moment those numbers are low, which is why we need schools in England and Northern Ireland shut completely only one facility. We chose a facility near Heathrow at the moment for a deep clean, after students and teachers because that is the point of biggest throughput, but we returned from skiing trips. I understand that schools do not rule out rolling that out more broadly if we think should check relevant websites and get local advice, but it necessary. does the Secretary of State expect advice to be sent to The Department for Education has repeatedly issued schools from the Department for Education? If schools advice to schools—I am glad to see the Minister for have to start shutting, will the Government consider School Standards in his place—and we issued revised arrangements for alternative schooling provision for advice this morning. Our goal is to keep schools open those affected? wherever we can, as long as that protects the public. Will the Secretary of State update the House on how Our wider goal is to have minimum social and economic many specialist and extracorporeal membrane oxygenation disruption, or disruption to the NHS, subject to keeping beds are available across the NHS? We know that the the public safe. The message that we do not have a NHS is under intense pressure at this time of year—indeed, policy of blanket school closures is important. Unless today the BBC is running a story about people waiting there is specific professional advice, or until there is a on trolleys in hospital corridors and so on. The Nuffield positive test, schools should stay open and follow the Trust has warned that there is “little in the tank” to cope advice on the GOV.UK website. If they have queries they with coronavirus, and Public Health England has should contact their regional schools commissioner. announced that tests for the condition are being increased The hon. Gentleman asked about the availability of to include people displaying flu-like symptoms at testing, and as far as we know, we now have testing sites 11 hospitals and 100 GP surgeries across the UK. at all A and E facilities across England. We are also Will community trusts and clinical commissioning planning to introduce home testing, some of which has groups fund the extra work related to coronavirus from started already, so that people do not have to go to the their existing baselines, and is the Secretary of State pod in front of A and E—that pod has been placed making representations to the Treasury for additional there to ensure that people do not go into A and E, 325 Coronavirus 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Coronavirus 326

[Matt Hancock] count as illness, so will the Government send a clear message to employers, so that those who are advised to where they might infect others. Home testing is the self-isolate will still be paid or receive sickness cover? safest place to be tested because people do not have to Otherwise, there will be people who feel that they must go anywhere, and that will allow us to roll out testing to go to work, because they simply cannot afford to have a larger number of people. The hon. Gentleman asked no income for two weeks. about the available funding. Funding is available from The Secretary of State suggested that he would not the Treasury. So far we have used it for capital funding, go to wider northern Italy, and the Chief Medical but we will obviously keep this issue under review. Officer suggested that people with health conditions should not go there. Travel insurance kicks in only when Several hon. Members rose— the Foreign and Commonwealth Office gives clear guidance. Mr Speaker: Order. I expect to run this statement Will that guidance be changed to state that people until around 1.30 pm. should not be travelling to wider northern Italy, and other areas, so that people are not disadvantaged by not Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con): Has the roll-out having travel insurance if they choose not to put themselves, of diagnostic testing facilities to 11 laboratories in the and indeed all of us, at risk of the disease spreading? UK been completed? Does my right hon. Friend have plans to extend that coverage if there were to be a wider Matt Hancock: The hon. Lady is right with regard to outbreak? concerns about under-reporting, especially in some countries. I am afraid I do not recognise some of her Matt Hancock: There has been a roll-out to a wider clinical observations, and I do not recognise the idea number of laboratories, and we are working through that we should change travel advice between China and plans for wider commercial diagnostic testing. We are Italy. We should base travel advice on expert clinical working with around a dozen private companies, and evidence. I am very happy to ensure that she receives a using private diagnostic testing companies, not least full briefing from medical experts, so that she can get because globally there is a search for a “by the side of the clinical points right. the bed” testing capability. At the moment, all testing is On thermal detection, rather like stopping flights this done in labs, which means that someone has to take a is against clinical advice. The clinical advice is not to swab to the lab and get the result. We want testing undertake thermal detection, because we get a lot of false capabilities that involve a bit of kit by the bedside of the positives. Indeed, the only country I know of in Europe patient, so that tests can be run onsite. There is a global that undertook thermal detection at the border was search for that capability, but it does not yet exist. Italy and that is now the scene of the largest outbreak. We are putting funding and support into making that Finally, the hon. Lady made a very important point happen, and I hope we will soon get to that solution. about people in work and self-isolation. Self-isolation Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP): on medical advice is considered sickness for employment Worldwide we are looking at about 80,000 cases of purposes. That is a very important message for employers coronavirus. That is 10 times the number that we saw and those who can go home and self-isolate as if they with SARS, which suggests it is a very infectious condition. were sick, because it is for medical reasons. Will the UK Government liaise with international partners Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): to ensure accurate reporting? It is critical to map the Mercifully, nobody in this country has yet died of spread of coronavirus, and there will be a danger that coronavirus, but every year 600 people die of seasonal some countries under-report because they are afraid of flu. In the phase to which my right hon. Friend refers, is economic impacts. Has any consideration been given to he redoubling our efforts to ensure that the elderly and using thermal detection technology at Heathrow, and the vulnerable in particular are vaccinated against seasonal for that to be spread across more sites? We can no longer flu, therefore perhaps mitigating pressures on our national think that this only involves people who come from a health service in the event that coronavirus becomes few countries—people follow different routes, and almost more of a problem here and makes demands particularly everyone coming in would need to be screened. on intensive care beds? As the Secretary of State said, there is only a small window of opportunity when it is possible to prevent or Matt Hancock: My right hon. Friend is absolutely contain the initial spread of coronavirus. As I have right. The vaccination rate was, I think, at a record level previously said, I am concerned about not self-isolating this year, and it is very important. The simple measures asymptomatic people, particularly when we are aware that everybody can take, such as washing hands and that the case that spread the condition to others in using tissues, protect us against flu as well as coronavirus. the UK involved someone who was not significantly symptomatic. We do not know what the prodromal Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): The four people phase of coronavirus is, and people could be spreading who were welcomed to Arrowe Park Hospital developed the condition without our knowledge. The advice must symptoms subsequent to coming to this country, despite be clear. being tested extensively before they were allowed to fly. Does the Secretary of State recognise the confusion Does that cause the Secretary of State any worry? Will there is that those returning from certain parts of north he say what that might mean for whether people are Italy must self-isolate, even if asymptomatic, but those infectious before they are symptomatic? coming from China do not need to self-isolate if asymptomatic? That is causing confusion and we may Matt Hancock: It is my job to worry about all those end up behind the curve. If containment is to work, we things. The answer is that that sequence of events must be ahead of the curve. Self-isolating does not confirms to me the importance of quarantining people. 327 Coronavirus 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Coronavirus 328

I know that there were some concerns about quarantine, individuals and employers take—there are alternatives but I think it showed that we were dead right to quarantine to travel, especially business travel, where there are people because it turned out that they tested positive technological solutions—to help with containment? during the quarantine. Mr Speaker, I just want to put on the record my thanks to the hon. Lady, and everyone Matt Hancock: That is a very wise question and my in her constituency and the Wirral more broadly, who hon. Friend is absolutely right to ask it. The NHS has a have risen to this challenge. very important role to play in responding to this crisis, Public Health England is leading the public health response Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) brilliantly, and Professor Chris Whitty, as chief medical (Con): Constituents have been writing to me with regard officer, has done an amazing job over the past two to travel advice. They are planning holidays to countries months and is one of the finest epidemiologists in the that are currently affected and for which the travel world, but the truth is that everybody has a role to play, advice is to isolate on return if symptomatic. Some do from the simple action of washing hands all the way not want to go on those holidays because, understandably, through to responding in a sensible and proportionate they are genuinely frightened, but they cannot reclaim way. It is important to dwell on that. the money because the travel advice is not saying that they cannot go. If they do go, they then have to isolate Layla Moran (Oxford West and Abingdon) (LD): I when they come back, which effectively lengthens their join others in thanking NHS staff in advance for the holidays and creates significant difficulties in relation to work they will have to do to contain and deal with the their responsibilities. Will the Secretary of State advise coronavirus. Will the Secretary of State join me in my constituents on what they should do in that circumstance commending the work of Professor Gilbert and others and what discussions have taken place with the Foreign at the Jenner Institute, who are working tirelessly to develop Office on this matter? a vaccine? As he said in his statement, the NHS 111 service is now in effect the frontline service. We may have Matt Hancock: Decisions on precise travel advice for received text messages from our GP surgeries telling us each country is of course a matter for the Foreign Office, to contact them first. What are we doing to ensure they but I can tell my hon. Friend that all those considerations are properly staffed and trained? Finally—this is very are taken into account. We have to base decisions on the important, Mr Speaker—will he join me in condemning best possible science and clinical advice. those who are hurling racist abuse at British Asians, both in Oxford and elsewhere? There is a worry that we could racially profile those who may have this disease Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): What assessment and that is not acceptable. We all need to calm down. have the Government made of the potential economic consequences of the spread of the coronavirus, globally Matt Hancock: I abhor any racist attacks that people as well as in Europe and in the UK? The Secretary of might say have resulted from this situation. The State will know that northern Italy is in lockdown and circumstances do not matter—racism does not help; it that other countries with a much greater spread of the hinders any response. I can assure the hon. Lady that disease have provided an economic stimulus because 111 staff have the support they need and we have whole areas are shutting down. We are not there at all in back-up plans. That is all part of the plan and 111 is the UK, but has he discussed this issue with the Treasury, responding brilliantly. Thank goodness we have 111. It because the potential impact on growth and the nervousness is only a couple of years old and it is absolutely delivering of financial markets is very real? in these circumstances. Everybody in the country knows that if they are worried that they have coronavirus they Matt Hancock: The hon. Lady is absolutely right to should call 111. raise this issue. I have of course talked to the Treasury and the new Chancellor of the Exchequer on this question. Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con): I pay tribute Another important consideration is that overreaction to the Secretary of State at this very difficult time. His has economic and social costs too. We have to keep the statement was very measured. He mentions four means: public safe, but we need to act in a way that is proportionate, containment, delay,research and mitigation. Containment so that does come into our considerations. My primary and delaycome with serious economic and social disruption, goal is to keep the public safe—of course it is—but we and we are seeing that in the markets at the moment. I also have to take into account other impacts. For instance, would say that what we must be doing the most is as I set out in the statement, schools should stay open, mitigation. This is a very strange virus with a very long with no blanket ban, unless there are specific reasons period between infection and symptoms. The number for them not to. Closing a school does not just have an of interactions people make during that two-week period— impact on children’s education—there are wider social perhaps even longer—will be innumerable, and that and economic impacts too. makes thermal testing, which is often the first way forward, difficult to analyse. Will the Secretary of State, Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): I thank the Secretary the chief medical officer and other international experts of State for the very responsible way he is handling this look seriously at whether this is simply A. N. Other flu very serious situation. He is clearly working very closely—as virus that is difficult and problematic, but recoverable his predecessor did and I did when I worked with from? him—with Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and following the evidence. That has to be right. Matt Hancock: I thank my hon. Friend; I will certainly Last time the Secretary of State made a statement to the do that. I agree with him on the importance of mitigation. House, he said that he felt it would get worse before it The mitigation strand is really about what would happen got better. I think that that has been borne out by should this become a full-scale pandemic, and the very events. What level of personal responsibility should significant impact that that would have on the country— 329 Coronavirus 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Coronavirus 330

[Matt Hancock] has heeded the advice to self-isolate, but exactly what self-isolation might mean for certain groups—such as a including, of course, on the NHS. On the purpose of family in which one person may be symptomatic, or the delay strand of this work, even if we do not succeed groups of university students—is difficult to ascertain. in containing the virus, we want to delay its arrival so I urge my right hon. Friend to pursue a public health that it does not all arrive in one big peak, but arrives initiative. over time so that we can better cope with it. Of course, the contain strand is about trying to stop that from Matt Hancock: We updated the advice on exactly happening at all. what self-isolation means earlier this week. It does, for instance, mean going home, and if other people live Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op): As the with you at home, trying to keep out of contact with House knows, I was in self-isolation last week because them. It means, obviously, not going on public transport, Harry Horton of ITV alerted me to the fact that there leaving the house as little as possible, and trying to get had been a confirmed case at the UK bus summit, other people to do things like collecting groceries. It which I attended. I rang 111 and the advice was that, if I also means, within a house where lots of people are had been in contact with the person who had coronavirus, living, trying to stay away from others living in that I should self-isolate, but if I had not, I need not. Yet no house. I appreciate that that is, practically, challenging agency could confirm or deny whether I had been in and difficult—as a father of three small children, I get contact. So more work on tracking needs to be done. it—but that is the goal of self-isolation. Will the Secretary of State consider developing, like the Chinese Government, a tracking app to help people in that situation? Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP): I thank the Secretary of State for his statement. What communication Matt Hancock: I am very happy, subject to consent, is his Department having with the devolved Administrations to look at that. I would also say that the way that concerning precautions? Schools, such as one in my contact tracing works is that, once the positive case is constituency,are flummoxed, not knowing how to manage identified, you trace out from the positive case, rather the situation. What is he doing with the ports in Belfast than starting from the wider population—including to ensure that precautions are put in place? attendees at the bus conference—and focusing in. Contact The Secretary of State mentioned financial support. tracing was undertaken in the correct way. Indeed, the Will he outline whether there will be additional support majority of cases that we have found in the UK have for Northern Ireland if this disease comes to Northern been found through the proactive contact tracing Ireland? undertaken by Public Health England; that commends its approach. Matt Hancock: Public health crises such as this are a Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con): I thank UK-wide reserved matter, but we have had excellent the Secretary of State for the statement. Obviously, this working with all the devolveds, particularly the new issue affects all our constituencies, so can he confirm Administration in Belfast. They join our weekly Cobras. that he will continue to provide further information to We will have a Cobra this afternoon at which they will the House as the situation develops and as more information be present. Some matters—especially in the mitigate becomes available to us, so that we can keep our strand of work—are of course devolved, such as schools constituents’ minds at rest that everything that can be and healthcare. We work very hard on that, and I am done is being done? sure that we will ensure that any financial consequentials are appropriately dealt with, too. Matt Hancock: Yes, absolutely; of course I will keep the House and the wider public updated. That is an Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): If someone incredibly important part of our work. Of course, for starts feeling unwell on their journey home, what should any colleague, my door, and that of the Minister for they do when they arrive at the airport? Presumably, Public Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Bury they ought to report to someone before travelling on St Edmunds (Jo Churchill), is always open to answer public transport. any questions. Matt Hancock: Yes; they should make themselves Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab): What steps known to the public health presence at the port, and of are the Government taking, in partnership with tech course they can call 111 from mobiles, too. companies, to battle fake news on coronavirus?

Matt Hancock: That is a very important subject. In Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): We heard what fact, I have been working on that in the past 24 hours, to the Secretary of State told the hon. Member for Wimbledon ensure that tech companies, social media companies, (Stephen Hammond) about a person who is self-isolating, Google and others promote the right answers to questions keeping away from other family members, but what is about coronavirus.Most of the social media companies—we the advice to the other family members about whether have been in contact with them—have behaved in an they should go about their normal business—go to work exemplary fashion, ensuring that information from, for or go to school if they are children—in those circumstances? example, the NHS gets promoted. Matt Hancock: Other family members who are Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): I commend asymptomatic should go about their normal business in my right hon. Friend for his statement today. Following the normal way. It is those who have tested positively on from the previous question, it is clear that everybody who should self-isolate. 331 Coronavirus 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Coronavirus 332

Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): The Health Secretary clinical and managerial—were fantastic, as were the is absolutely right that containment of covid-19 is very officers in the council. I think we should recognise important. In that vein, will he keep under review that the whole health team—the Secretary of State isolation facilities being made available at London Gatwick and his Ministers, advisers and officials—and, indeed, airport, which of course has many flights to and from parliamentarians on any Bench in this House, have both Asia and Europe? reacted incredibly well to this situation. So can the Secretary of State reassure us that this is part of the UK Matt Hancock: Yes, of course, that would be the being the best prepared—or among the very well prepared obvious next step. I will not confirm that—we do not need —in the world to deal with this kind of outbreak? it yet—but that is all part of the plan. Matt Hancock: My hon. Friend is right about Milton Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): The Irish authorities Keynes. The people of Milton Keynes have done exactly have already advised the Irish Rugby Football Union to the right thing, and I would add to his list Milton call off the Six Nations game against Italy,which obviously Keynes University Hospital, which has done a brilliant affects the north, as it is a Northern Ireland team as job. More broadly, I would also add the media, who well. England are due to play Italy in the Six Nations in have in very large part responded in an incredibly a few weeks. What discussions has the Secretary of responsible way to a very big story. We have detailed State had with his colleagues in the Department for operational plans for dealing with this situation, including Digital, Culture, Media and Sport and with the sporting if it gets much worse, and those plans are worked on authorities about advising what to do in relation to the and updated in response to all the information we get, Six Nations championship and other sporting events? but part of the plan is about the behaviour of people and how people respond in this House and in the country. Matt Hancock: Obviously, DDCMS is involved in Thus far we have seen an exemplary response. I hope that the cross-Government decision making on these things. continues. Our goal is to minimise social disruption—of which this is an important part for any rugby fan—subject to Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Many wedding dresses keeping the public safe. These are difficult balances to in this country are designed here but made in China, strike sometimes, and I will be discussing the matter and wedding dress companies in the UK, including in with the new Secretary of State at DDCMS. my constituency, have found it difficult because the factories in China have closed; they are suffering as a Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con): I thank my right result. I am aware, having married many women in my hon. Friend for what he has said, particularly in relation time—when I was a vicar—that this is time sensitive. to schools. He may be aware that a school in my There is a real danger that many of these businesses will constituency has closed as a precautionary measure, after suffer enormous financial loss, not to mention the impact students returned from northern Italy. Would he contact on the families. Will the Secretary of State chase up both me and the school to reassure parents and staff? replies from Ministers in other Departments to ensure financial support for those companies?

Matt Hancock: I would be very happy to discuss Matt Hancock: The hon. Member raises an important the specific case with my hon. Friend—either I or the point and through the medium of the wedding dress Minister for Public Health—and I am looking into that makes a much broader point, which is that many things specific example. A small number of schools have taken are made in China, especially drugs and pharmaceuticals that step. I understand why they have, and it is of course and clothing, which means that the impact in China will a decision for the head, taking into account local factors. have an impact here through the supply chain problems. We are putting in place, through the regional schools I am working with the Treasury on the appropriate commissioners, the structures to make it possible to response. Containing the virus will obviously have health ensure that every school can get the advice it needs, but benefits, but it will have economic benefits, too. in the first instance every school should go to the website, because there is a huge amount of advice on that. Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): The hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) nicked Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab): What action my question about the number of cancelled sporting is the Minister taking to ensure that the support and events around the world, which the Secretary of State communication being given is adequate and clear to will be aware of, but can he be clear about the advice to British nationals currently quarantined in the hotel in those who host or attend these events in order to Tenerife, and to their families, who are rightly worried? prevent the spread of coronavirus? Can he confirm that, contrary to rumours on the internet, 111 call Matt Hancock: It is a very important question. We are handlers are not advising people to go to their GP? getting as much information as we possibly can, through the Foreign Office, to those who are in Tenerife. As I Matt Hancock: People should call 111 if they are announced in the statement, we will shortly be strengthening concerned; they should not attend A&E or go to their our domestic communications programme to ensure GP, unless 111 has correctly told them to do that. The that people have all the information they need. 111 call handlers are highly trained. There are GPs at the other end of the line to make sure people get the Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con): I was very best advice. It is the place to go to. pleased when, yesterday evening, the Health Minister took me aside and said how well the whole of Milton Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab): Having experienced the outbreak Keynes had reacted to hosting a quarantine centre, and in my home town of Brighton and Hove, I would like to he was right of course. The professionals in the NHS— commend the work of the Secretary the State’sDepartment, 333 Coronavirus 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Coronavirus 334

[Peter Kyle] advice is given. Rather than me giving advice from the Dispatch Box, I will ensure we get the best clinical his officials and public health officials across the country. advice and join up with the Republic. In particular, I would like to thank the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the hon. Member Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): I hear what the Secretary for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill), who personally of State says about how people should go about their went beyond the call of duty to keep me and my ordinary lives if they have not tested positive, but where colleagues informed at every step. I am convinced that parents self-isolate while awaiting testing, should their the strategy that was unfolded in our city was the children go to school before they know the outcome of correct one, but what was not quite good enough was the test? Schools being what they are, it is bound to the explanation given to residents of why that strategy cause alarm. Should children not be kept away until such was chosen. Those who came into contact with people time as the all-clear is given? with coronavirus were contacted proactively, but those in the same space who were concerned had no information Matt Hancock: It is best here that we follow the at all. Is this something that will get better? clinical advice, which is as I set out. One of the good things about the covid-19 coronavirus, compared with Matt Hancock: The hon. Gentleman is right to praise similar illnesses, is that it seems to be much less impactful my colleague. It is a pity, Mr Speaker, that you did not in terms of symptoms on children, which is good news, call him earlier, because she has just left the Chamber. because with the flu it is normally the other way around. He is right; we are constantly learning. Communication That observation underpins the clinical advice. We need in this area is always a challenge, because we have to get to listen to the scientists. some quite technical information over to a large number of people in a very short time. We do our very best, but Paul Girvan (South Antrim) (DUP): I thank the we are constantly learning from what goes well and Secretary of State for his statement to the House. What what goes badly, so I would love to hear more from him advice and help is being given to airport staff, given that about how we can improve. they are often the gatekeepers?

Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con): Following on from Matt Hancock: We should thank Border Force, which the last question, in his statement, the Secretary of has done a fantastic job, and the staff at the international State referenced a public information campaign. Can he ports. We are constantly engaged with them, through provide more detail about that and confirm that it will the Department for Transport—and the Home Office in be updated as the situation changes? the case of Border Force—to ensure they get the right information and support, but if the hon. Member has Matt Hancock: That is right. We have an existing any specific worries, I would be happy to answer them. public information campaign to explain to people that the best thing to do is to call 111, but we will be Dean Russell (Watford) (Con): The Secretary of State strengthening that. In particular, we want to persuade and the Government have done a fantastic job on people to wash their hands more and to look out for public information, but does he agree that it would be themselves, especially if they have a sneeze, in order to helpful, given our reach on social media and through slow the spread; we want to explain what they should to our constituency surgeries, if Members were to put up do if they think they are infected. It is incredibly important posters and broadcast the necessary information to our that we get this information out across the whole population. constituents in our tweets and elsewhere on social media in order to maximise that reach? Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): I welcome the level-headed clarion certainty in the Secretary of State’s approach to this difficult event; it gives confidence to Matt Hancock: I am very happy to do that. More many people across the country. Cambridge House broadly, I am open to ideas on how to improve our Grammar School in my constituency had to send pupils response, including learning from where things have not home yesterday. It appears to have acted absolutely by gone well. Our approach is to make the UK response the book in terms of the advice given, so I welcome the the best it can be—that is my only goal—and when communication between the Department of Health and there are good ideas, such as that one from my hon. Social Care here and the Departments of Education Friend, we will act on them. and Health in Northern Ireland, and I hope it continues. With regard to the game to be played on Saturday Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the between Italy and Ireland, many Ulster players and Secretary of State on his clear leadership on this matter Ulster fans are following that closely. His counterpart in and his determination to deal with the issues. He referred the Republic of Ireland, Simon Harris, has said the to schools in Northern Ireland. Some of them have game should be stopped, but the Department here has concerns about upcoming trips that they have planned taken a much more level-headed approach and said it and paid for in advance. What advice can he give to will monitor the situation. The IRFU,which will ultimately schools in Northern Ireland and across the United take the decision, does not seem to know what to do. Kingdom? Should they travel? Can the Secretary of State give clear and clarion advice to the IRFU? Matt Hancock: The critical thing is to follow the Foreign Office travel advice, which is informed by the Matt Hancock: I will ask the chief medical officer to evidence, including evidence from scientists. It is kept speak to the Republic of Ireland chief medical officer constantly under review and is clearly published on its and to ensure that the best and appropriate clinical website. 335 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Points of Order 336

Points of Order Mr Speaker: I thank the hon. Member for giving me notice of his point of order. I am not responsible for 1.29 pm Ministers and their answers, but I think that they should have the courtesy to give Members early replies. As I am Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): On a point sure the hon. Gentleman knows, the Table Office will of order, Mr Speaker. It is timely that Health Ministers use its best endeavours to help, and I certainly know are in the Chamber,because there have been two important that he will not give up that easily. I am sure that announcements this week in connection with the dangers Ministers will have heard what he has said, and my advice of smoking. One was an attempt by a tobacco manufacturer would be “Get some replies quickly.” to interfere in the development of public health policy; the other was the projection by Cancer Research UK Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Streatham) (Lab): On a point of that the Government would miss their target of reducing order, Mr Speaker. adult smoking levels to 5%, and would take a further On Monday, in answer to a question from my hon. seven years to reach it. Are you aware, Mr Speaker, Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi) whether any Minister from the Department of Health about the right to a family life under her new immigration and Social Care is planning to make a statement on that system, the Home Secretary told the House that projection, and on the Government’s attitude to tobacco “the points-based system....is welcoming those with the right companies trying to muscle in on public health policy? skills and attributes, and that applies equally to their families.”— [Official Report, 24 February 2020; Vol. 672, c. 49.] Mr Speaker: I can assure the hon. Gentleman that no However, the Home Office statement announcing the one has been in touch to tell me that any Minister is system makes no provision for the right to a family life, going to make a statement, but the good news is that the and paragraph 22 says that family reunion will not be Secretary of State for Health and Social Care has part of the points-based system, as was recommended certainly heard his plea. to the Government by the Migration Advisory Committee. Can you, Mr Speaker, or the Home Secretary clarify Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ which is the case? Will new migrants automatically be Co-op): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You will be able to bring their families here, or will their families aware of serious concerns that have been raised by have to apply separately or meet other criteria? Members in all parts of the House—for instance, during questions to the Prime Minister earlier—about the Mr Speaker: I thank the hon. Lady for giving me notice appointment of the racist, sexist and eugenics supporter of her point of order, but it is not a point of order for Andrew Sabisky to a senior role at No. 10 Downing Street. me. However, she has raised it, and I hope that those The Government have yet to answer questions about who are responsible will correct the record if necessary. that appointment. What the hon. Lady has said will certainly be in Hansard. I wrote to the Cabinet Secretary, the Prime Minister However, if she is unhappy, let me say again, “Please and the Minister for the Cabinet Office asking a series use the best endeavours of the Table Office”, which will of questions about the nature of Mr Sabisky’sappointment, help her to try to correct the record. his vetting, and the processes that led to it, but I have yet to receive a reply. BILL PRESENTED

First, Mr Speaker, do you know how I can encourage EUROPEAN CITIZENS’RIGHTS the Government to respond as a matter of urgency to Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) those concerns, which I think is in the national interest and the interests of the House? Secondly, the Prime Christine Jardine, supported by Stuart C. McDonald, Minister today laid a written statement about the security Munira Wilson, Daisy Cooper, Sarah Olney, Jamie and defence review,and it has been alleged that Mr Sabisky Stone,Wera Hobhouse and Wendy Chamberlain, presented was employed specifically to advise on the review. The a Bill to guarantee the immigration rights of EU, EEA Prime Minister seemed to suggest that there would soon EFTA and Swiss citizens resident in the United Kingdom; be an oral statement about that. Have you, Mr Speaker, to require the Government to provide such persons with been given any notice of when the Prime Minister physical proof of those rights; and for connected purposes. intends to come and answer questions, including the Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on question of who is advising on that important review? Friday 15 May, and to be printed (Bill 93). 337 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Workers (Definition and Rights) 338

Workers (Definition and Rights) Another example was that of a single parent in Coventry, who said: Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23) “A single parent works in a care job that cannot guarantee her hours. She is paid weekly, variable amounts, oftentimes just one shift in a week, and claims Universal Credit alongside. She can 1.33 pm never predict how much UC will be paid to her, so cannot budget for her rent, utilities and food, and relies on foodbanks to Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP): I beg to supplement her low earned income, whilst she waits for UC payments move, to ensure she has enough to pay her rent”. That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the definition of According to Feeding Britain, worker; to make provision about workers’ rights; and for connected “Having already received a pummelling from an income which purposes. rises and falls drastically from week to week,” This is, of course, the reintroduction of a Bill that people was introduced in the last parliamentary Session, which, “have been left with a perpetual fear of the unforeseen financial sadly, did not proceed to a Second Reading. However, emergency around the corner,” as many more seasoned Members have taught me, and repetition is not a vice! “it is now clear that evidence of an ‘insecurity premium’ for those I want to thank the Scottish Trades Union Congress, on ZHCs…exists. the TUC, Feeding Britain, and the great Better than According to the Living Wage Foundation an ‘insecurity premium’ Zero campaign for providing me with examples that hits those on unpredictable hours and low income the hardest. explain why the Bill is necessary, and why we, as a These are last minute changes which make planning and efficiency Parliament, require a debate on giving working people savings around other costs, such as childcare and travel, more greater protection. troublesome. For instance, if an employee has guaranteed shifts for a week, It is time to refine the current definitions of a worker, or month, they can work out the most affordable travel arrangements, in the light of recent Supreme Court judgments, and to be that a weekly or monthly pass with its obvious savings. They provide greater protection from day one of a person’s can plan their childcare on the days they anticipate they will be employment, eliminating zero-hours contracts and giving working and ensure a cheaper, advanced rate.” greater protection to those in precarious work, such Of course, the contrary applies to those on zero-hours as—but not exclusively—those working in the hospitality contracts: sector. Far from addressing an unbalanced economy “if an employee is only notified last minute or on a day to day that rewards failure as long as it is on a global scale, basis, they will suffer the premiums of a day travel ticket or last successive Governments have clung to the supremacy of minute childcare costs” the market over workers’ rights. However, all the evidence —additional childcare costs. shows that a healthy economy values workers, and that Feeding Britain says: achieving the correct balance between profit and reward is the best way to secure long-term growth instead of “It is clear that, far from being a two-way street, where workers and employers benefit from the ZHC arrangement, many people short-term profit. are crying out for greater predictability, security, and continuity in Many voices are now challenging the sheer scale of their working life and an opportunity to look to the future rather the exploitation and poor working practices which all than looking out for the infrequent calls of their employer. ZHCs age groups experience, but which often hit younger are an arrangement which, in many cases, are stacked in favour of the employer and are leading workers into insecurity and often people the hardest. As Feeding Britain has reported: hardship.” “Increasingly we are receiving evidence around individuals It is claimed that some individuals on ZHCs” “have particular lifestyles suited to the flexibility of interchangeable —zero-hours contracts— working patterns, and where this works for an individual it should “who are being forced to the door of the food bank to supplement be within their gift to keep it this way.” their low or volatile income. Not only is this promoting a message However, the opposite is true: that work doesn’t pay, but ZHCs are also having the equally … “many others are burdened by the inflexibility of contracts designed damaging impact of making Universal Credit payments fluctuate to provide flexibility—they put plans on hold, they miss out on and in turn pushing proud, resilient individuals to rely heavily on important occasions, their ability to budget or forecast is removed food banks. or diminished, and they are paying more for the same services As hours vary each week, or sometimes each day, on ZHCs than others with a consistent employment routine. Many live in there is often a delay with UC catching up on the hours worked fear that their commitment will be called into question or that and, in some cases, UC forecasts are being made on the previous they will be usurped by a fellow worker without the same commitments month where hours worked are dramatically different. This represents in life, who can take any shift, at any time, and in any place, the first domino to fall, with wildly unpredictable payments without a second thought. leading to rent arrears and the loss of other passported benefits. In other cases, individuals have travelled abroad, to visit family Housing associations have reported a rise in the number of or attend bereavements, or have simply been out of the house and tenants who are falling foul of ZHCs and its impact on the have stopped being offered shifts as they didn’t reply to their financial housing support they receive.” manager’s messages promptly enough. In many lines of work, Feeding Britain gives the example of Paul, of west Cheshire, often poorly paid, only ZHCs are available and employees feel who said: trapped in the knowledge that they must be willing to drop everything, take last minute work and appease their employers to “Zero-hour contracts are no good to anybody. You need at guarantee a future income stream.” least 40 hours a week to be able to fend for yourself and pay the bills. My universal credit payments were different each month and It is time, therefore, to take on the false narrative I could not keep up with the bills. I had to use foodbanks and got about the modern world of work that suggests that into arrears with both my rent and my council tax. I am better off 21st-century technology has created a different dynamic not working than working in this way.” and that workers have to adapt to be more flexible and 339 Workers (Definition and Rights)26 FEBRUARY 2020 Workers (Definition and Rights) 340 more open to different ways of working, leaving behind Art School Bar collapse, 22 workers on zero-hours outdated notions of security and guaranteed reward. contracts had their hours cut to zero without notice on The clear implication is that full-time secure employment 31 October, and exactly three months later, the company rights—a pension, clearly defined hours—are some sort declared insolvency, because everything from holiday of outdated 20th-century concept, instead of the peak pay to notice pay is dependent on the last 13 weeks of of a hard-fought struggle to redress the balance between hours. There is no guarantee that the workers will get employer and employee or, at its most extreme, the anything. Some of them have been employed for seven exploiter and exploited. years. I believe, as does the Better than Zero campaign, It is time for a full debate about what fair work is and that that was a deliberate attempt to avoid paying out how it should be properly rewarded. My Bill will bring packages to staff. Had those workers had the guarantee some clarity to the definition of a worker by defining of minimum hours built into their contracts, they would what rights are available and consolidating a single not now be left with minimal notice or a redundancy statutory definition of the people to whom employment package. rights and duties apply. It will also give the House the There are those who consider that the crackdown on opportunity for more debate about the issues arising workers’ rights does not go far enough. They look from the Taylor report. It is time to consolidate a single fondly on 18th and 19th-century employment legislation statutory definition of the people to whom employment such as the Master and Servant Acts, which were designed rights and duties apply. Through the Supreme Court, to discipline employees and repress the combination of there is already an emerging body of case law to support workers in trade unions. I believe that those people are workers’ rights, and that is by no means the end of in a minority, however. If fairness is not nailed down in story. legislation and enforced, there will always be employers It is also time to address the issue of short-notice who push their advantage to the limit and beyond. The shift changes, which penalise workers. We as a society time has come for an Act of Parliament to address the can no longer accept a worker reporting for work only issues of precarious work that bring misery to millions to be advised either that they have no work that day or of people. I commend the Bill to the House. that they are expected to work longer hours than they Question put and agreed to. had been advised only the day before. Employers who Ordered, do that should face a penalty requiring them to meet the cost to the worker of transport and/or out-of-pocket or That Chris Stephens, Grahame Morris, Alison Thewliss, increased childcare costs. Rachel Hopkins, Neil Gray, Jonathan Edwards, Amy The time has come to secure legislation that uses the Callaghan, Paula Barker, Kenny MacAskill, Dr Philippa court judgments to clarify the nature and status of Whitford, Brendan O’Hara and Colum Eastwood present workers today. We should not over-complicate the issue the Bill. by pretending that the age-old struggle between labour Chris Stephens accordingly presented the Bill. and capital has magically vanished in a digital age. Let Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on me give the House an example from Glasgow that Friday 27 November, and to be printed (Bill 94). brings the whole Bill together quite well. Following the 341 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 342

Environment Bill I would like to take this opportunity to thank my predecessors, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of [Relevant documents: Fourteenth Report of the Environment, the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Food and Rural Affairs Committee of Session 2017-19, Office and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Prelegislative scrutiny of the Draft Environment (Principles Barnet (Theresa Villiers), who did a lot of groundwork and Governance) Bill, HC 1893. Eighteenth Report of on this Bill. I should also like to record my thanks to my the Environmental Audit Committee of Session 2017-19, colleague the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Scrutiny of the Draft Environment (Principles and Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member Governance) Bill, HC 1951.] for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow), who has been involved Second Reading with the Bill from the start. The Bill is key to this Government’s ambitious 1.44 pm environmental agenda. In 2020, as the UK hosts the The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural next climate change conference, COP26 in Glasgow, we Affairs (George Eustice): I beg to move, That the Bill be will be leading from the front as we write this new chapter now read a Second time. for the UK outside the European Union: independent It is a pleasure to open this Second Reading debate and committed to net zero and to nature recovery. The on the Environment Bill. In recent decades, our natural Government will work to tackle climate change and world has faced multiple pressures. As a consequence, support nature recovery around the world and here at we face two great global challenges: climate change and home, whether through recycling more and wasting less, biodiversity loss. A million species face extinction, and planting trees, safeguarding our forests, protecting our climate change is piling the pressure on nature, doubling oceans, savings species or pioneering new approaches to the number of species under threat in the past 15 years. agriculture. If global temperatures rise by even 1.5°, we will lose The first half of the Bill—parts 1 and 2—sets out the even more of our precious life on Earth. As an island five guiding environmental principles for our terrestrial nation, we are acutely aware of the devastating effects and marine environments to inform policy making across of plastic pollution on marine life. We need to act now the country. These principles are that the polluter should to turn things around. This Government were elected pay; that harm should be prevented, and if it cannot be on the strongest-ever manifesto for the environment, prevented, it should be rectified at source; that the and this Bill is critical to implementing that commitment. environment should be taken into consideration across Government policy making; and that a precautionary Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): The approach should be taken. Secretary of State is clearly right about the two big global challenges that we face, but does he also recognise Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): What that, as a country in our own right, we face a specific action are the Government taking to ensure that carbon challenge with air pollution? Will he explain why he will offsetting is permanent and long lasting? Greenhouse not commit to the World Health Organisation- gases can be in the atmosphere in some cases for hundreds recommended legally binding limits on air pollution, to of years, and there is a danger that carbon offsetting be set and met by 2030? could be only temporary, so will the Government look at that point and come forward with proposals on it? George Eustice: The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Bill provides for us to do precisely that by George Eustice: My hon. Friend makes an important setting targets for PM 2.5. We will want to consult and point. The Bill contains a number of measures relating engage people on exactly what that target should be. It to a biodiversity net gain. It includes, for instance, a is worth noting that the World Health Organisation has provision on conservation covenants, which will enable commended this Government’s air quality strategy, saying a landowner entering into an agreement to plant woodland, that it is an example for the rest of the world to follow. for instance, to have a covenant on that land as part of Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): I an agreement that would prevent it from subsequently welcome my right hon. Friend to his place, and I welcome being scrapped. the Bill because it is a valuable step forward, but does he recognise that particulate pollution is a very real cause Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con): The for concern, not just in inner cities but in suburban breadth of this Bill and the level of scrutiny that its areas such as mine? Will he look at why we cannot use various versions have already faced are testament to its this Bill as an opportunity to advance rapidly towards importance and the hard work of Ministers, colleagues WHO standards? across the House, officials and an enormous number of organisations, yet there are still opportunities to strengthen George Eustice: I simply say to my hon. Friend that it. With that in mind, will my right hon. Friend confirm the Bill gives us the powers to set precisely those long-term that he is open-minded to amendments that strengthen targets and to monitor our progress towards them. It the Bill, particularly on biodiversity net gain? Some of also contains powers, later in the Bill, to improve our us agree with Greener UK that that ought to be secured ability to manage air quality and support interventions and maintained in perpetuity. that will enhance air quality. George Eustice: My hon. Friend will know that the Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op) rose— Government are always open-minded to good amendments. However, she makes a valid point, which is that the George Eustice: I would like to make a little bit of Bill’s contents have already been extensively scrutinised. progress. I am conscious of the number of Members The Bill as presented before Second Reading has taken who want to speak today. account of many different views. 343 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 344

Geraint Davies: The Secretary of State will be aware every five years, and a progress report will be published that current EU air quality standards are enforced annually. There are many mechanisms through which through the courts, with Client Earth and so on having our public approach to delivering on our targets is made taken the Government to court. Will he accept that this clear. Bill should include an independent agency with teeth that enforces World Health Organisation standards and, Edward Timpson (Eddisbury) (Con): I welcome the ideally, gives the fines to the health service and local Bill and its attempt, alongside enhancing the environment, government to help treat the damage caused by poor air to improve our farmers’ ability to produce food. To that quality and to reduce pollution locally? The Bill simply end, will my right hon. Friend confirm that the new does not do that at the moment. legally binding environmental targets will take account of the best techniques available to our farming community, George Eustice: The Bill will establish the Office for so that the targets are eminently achievable? Environmental Protection, which will have the power to take public bodies to an upper tribunal if there are George Eustice: My hon. Friend makes an important breaches of the law. Of course, there are remedies in point. Our Agriculture Bill is currently in Committee, such a process through the usual mechanism of court and it includes not only tackling and mitigating climate orders. change, but a wide range of other environmental objectives. The Bill sets out a framework for setting and taking The measures and policies in that Bill will indeed contribute concrete steps towards achieving our ambitious, legally to supporting the objectives and targets set out in this binding long-term targets, and chapter 2 will establish Bill. The OEP will provide a free-to-use complaints that new, powerful independent Office for Environmental system for citizens, and it will also have the power, as Protection to provide expert, objective and impartial I said earlier, to take the Government to court. advice on environmental issues and to take a proportionate and transparent approach to issues of national importance Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): One concerning the enforcement of environmental law. The of the issues for so many of our communities is appreciating OEP will hold this and every future Government to just how severe the crisis is, particularly for air quality, account by reporting on the progress we have made to as we have heard in many interventions. Does the Secretary improve the natural environment, as set out in our of State agree that we need to put the power with the published evidence-based environmental improvement people and increase investment in monitoring stations? plans and targets. Monitors could be fitted to the refuse lorries that go down every street across the land, which would provide Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): Will the Secretary us all with real-time data. of State give way? George Eustice: The hon. Gentleman makes an important George Eustice: I am going to make some progress. point. The waste management section of the Bill will The annual progress report we published last May provide us with the ability not only to strengthen our showed that 90% of the highest-priority actions from requirements on producer responsibility, but to improve our first 25-year environment plan, which will become our ability to track waste, so that we can ensure that it is our first improvement plan, have either been delivered disposed of properly. or are on track. We have heeded the advice of both the Environmental Audit Committee and the Environment, Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): I spoke about the Food and Rural Affairs Committee, and I look forward traceability of waste to the Secretary of State’spredecessor, to continuing to work closely with my hon. Friend the the right hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) and Villiers), and heard that the Bill is perfect. However, I my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip urge the Secretary of State to consider my amendment Dunne). The OEP will enforce compliance with in Committee on the traceability of waste, particularly environmental law where needed, complementing and the end destination of municipal waste, so that residents reinforcing the work of the world-leading Committee who recycle know that their recycling will not end up in on Climate Change. the oceans.

Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): Given that George Eustice: While I am sure that the Under-Secretary clause 40 gives the OEP quite broad prohibitions on the of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my disclosure of information, how will we know what it is hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane, will look up to? Will the Secretary of State explain—he can do carefully at any amendments, the Bill will also give us so in writing—why we need those prohibitions? Will he the legal powers to prevent the exporting of plastic waste confirm now that the Environmental Information to other countries, confirming a manifesto commitment. Regulations 2004, which are so important to public access, will not be interfered with? Will he state in the Theo Clarke (Stafford) (Con): Residents in Stafford Bill that there will be no restriction on the public’s are concerned about the impact of plastic pollution, access to information through the EIR? and I commend the local organisations, such as Stafford Litter Heroes, that are doing so much to tackle this George Eustice: The framework set out in this Bill blight on our beautiful countryside. What steps the contains multiple mechanisms through which information Government are taking to implement incentives such as is made available. We will be setting targets that will be the drinks container deposit return scheme, which would reviewed every five years. There will then be a published allow everyone to do their bit to protect our planet environmental improvement plan that will also be reviewed every day? 345 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 346

George Eustice: My hon. Friend makes an important Part 5 will facilitate more responsible management of point. The Bill contains new powers for enhanced producer water, so that we have secure, safe, abundant water for responsibility when it comes to managing single-use the future, supporting a more resilient environment. plastics or waste more generally, and the Bill will give us We know that nature needs our help to recover. the power to extend that to new categories. The Bill will also provide the power to enable us to establish deposit Sir Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): As my right return schemes. hon. Friend will know, England has 80% of the world’s chalk streams, and successive Governments have failed Several hon. Members rose— those chalk streams miserably. The abstraction reforms in this Bill are welcome, but they do not go far enough; George Eustice: I want to make some progress, because nor is there any explicit commitment to building reservoirs, I am conscious that many Members have put into speak particularly the Abingdon reservoir. Will the Minister today. reflect on that? The second half of the Bill sets out measures to George Eustice: Obviously, I am happy to discuss these improve our environment right now. The Bill will enable matters with my hon. Friend. The Bill has powers to British business to be part of the solution by incentivising strengthen the abstraction licensing regime and to limit and supporting approaches in the UK that will deliver licences that have been established for some time. It will for our environment. Part 3 will help us to accomplish also give us powers to modify some of the legislation on greater resource efficiency and a better approach to water pollutants, so that we can add additional chemicals waste through more circular ways of using the planet’s to the list, should we need to do so. finite resources. It will encourage manufacturers to develop innovative packaging and strong sustainability Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): Although there standards by making them responsible for the entire net is a lot to welcome in the Bill, the Government could cost of disposing of used packaging. It will stimulate achieve a lot more, particularly on water consumption. the creation of alternatives to the single-use plastics This is an opportunity to introduce targets for water that wreak havoc on the marine environment, while consumption through labelling mechanisms that allow establishing consistent rules to help people recycle more consumers to decide which products to buy and consume easily across our country and giving us powers to set up by comparing the amount of water those products use. deposit return schemes. George Eustice: We have consulted on a range of Geraint Davies: Will the Secretary of State give way? measures on water consumption. We do not think we need additional primary powers in this Bill to take steps George Eustice: I am going to make some progress. to address those issues. We will obviously be responding The Bill will improve how we hold to account those to the consultation soon. who litter, so we can tackle the waste crime that costs We know that nature needs our help to recover, so the our economy over £600 million every year. It will put focus of parts 6 and 7 is to give communities a say if pressure on businesses to waste less food and get more their local authority plans to take down a beloved of the surplus out to those who really need it. neighbourhood tree, and public authorities will be required Part4dealswithairpollution—thegreatestenvironmental to ensure they conserve and enhance nature across the risk to human health. Fine particulate matter is the board. most damaging pollutant, so the Bill makes a clear Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD): Will the Secretary of commitment to set an ambitious, legally binding target State give way? that will drive down particulate levels and improve public health. The Bill will give the Government the power to George Eustice: I will make some progress. ensure that polluting vehicles are removed from our Landowners will be able to agree conservation covenants roads, and it will give local authorities greater capability with charities and other bodies, so they can be assured to improve their local environment, from green spaces that subsequent landowners will be required to continue to healthier air for everyone to breathe, so that we all the sustainable stewardship they have started. The Bill lead longer, healthier lives wherever we live and work. will require developers to provide a 10% increase for nature, giving them the clarity they need to do their bit Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con): I greatly welcome for the environment, while building the homes we need the ambitious proposals in this Bill, and of particular across our country. interest to my constituents in Rushcliffe are the measures on recycling. The proposals to standardise which recyclable Nature recovery networks will join up space for species materials are collected door to door and to include glass across our country, with local nature recovery strategies and food waste in that list are particularly welcome. capturing local knowledge and mapping habitat hotspots, Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need to enact so that we can target investment where it will have the these measures as quickly as possible? Can he give me greatest impact. an idea of the timeframe for these proposals becoming Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend a reality on people’s doorsteps? give way? George Eustice: My hon. Friend makes an important George Eustice: I will give way one more time. point, and we will be consulting on when to deploy the powers in the Bill. It is important that we have greater Philip Dunne: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, consistency on recycling and on what local authorities who is being generous in giving way. I apologise for not are required to do, so that people play their part and being able to speak in this debate as I have a Westminster know exactly what is required of them. Hall debate at 2.30 pm. 347 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 348

Can my right hon. Friend reassure the House that 2.6 pm there will be coherence between the environmental land Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/ management scheme presented in the Agriculture Bill Co-op): The climate crisis is the most pressing issue and empowering people to be supported through the facing our planet. The actions we take in the next few nature recovery schemes? years will determine whether we can address the climate George Eustice: Yes, that is what we will be doing. emergency or whether we pass on to our children the Indeed, the design of our future environmental land rotten inheritance of living on a dying planet. It is management scheme will have a local component, and therefore with great responsibility that we debate this Bill. we want to make sure that what we do to promote The Government are calling this a “landmark Bill” nature through ELM is consistent with the local nature and “world-leading legislation,”but I fear that is not quite recovery strategies. right. The Secretary of State should be more honest, because this still seems like a draft Bill—a Bill that is Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con): Will my right not quite there. This is an okay Bill, but by no means hon. Friend give way? the groundbreaking legislation we have been promised.

George Eustice: I will give way one more time, and Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): My hon. Friend then I will make some progress. is absolutely right. Does he share my concern and disappointment that the Secretary of State did not Chris Grayling: My right hon. Friend is being very mention part 8? Part 8 refers to the potential for divergence generous in giving way. from the incredibly important regulations on the chemical This is one of the most important parts of the Bill. industry that affect our entire manufacturing sector, not We need to restore habitats in this country, with a just the chemical industry itself. Does he share my particular focus on those species—birds, hedgehogs and concern that part 8 has the ability to diverge, with others—that have declined so dramatically in numbers. serious consequences for most of our economy? Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that the mandate that goes with these measures, both for the Luke Pollard: The details on regression and non- new agency and for local authorities, will focus on helping regression are an important part of this Bill. We need to those species to recover, particularly by recreating the make sure we maintain our high standards, because habitats that will enable it to happen? those high standards, especially in the chemical industry, drive jobs and employment right across the country. George Eustice: My right hon. Friend makes an Any risk of divergence affects the ability of those products important point, and the Bill will require local authorities to be sold overseas, which affects the ability of jobs to to have their own strategies for biodiversity and for be held back in our country. I am glad my hon. Friend nature recovery.As he identifies, these are exactly the types has raised that issue. of issues that we want them to address. Some hon. Members will remember when Parliament Before I close, I will highlight three new additions to adopted Labour’s motion to declare a climate emergency. the Bill since it was introduced in the previous Parliament. For me, it presents us with a very simple challenge: now Clause 19 will mean that, when introducing a Bill, every that Parliament has declared a climate emergency, what Secretary of State in every future UK Government will are we doing differently? It is a challenge to us as have to include on the face of that Bill a statement on individuals and to businesses, but it is especially a whether the new primary legislation will have the effect challenge to lawmakers, Ministers and regulators. of reducing existing levels of environmental protection. Because the climate crisis is real, we need bolder, The second addition is that the Bill will create a new swifter action to decarbonise our economy and to protect powertoimplementtheGovernment’smanifestocommitment vulnerable habitats. We need to recognise that the crisis toendtheexportingof pollutingplasticwastetonon-OECD is not just about carbon, although it is. It is about other countries. We will consult industry, non-governmental greenhouse gases, too, and it is an ecological emergency, organisations and local authorities on specific restrictions with our planet’s animals, birds and insect species in or prohibitions. decline and their habitats under threat. Thirdly, clause 20 will require the Government to take The water we drink, the food we consume and the stock biennially of significant developments in international fish in our seas are all affected by pollutants, from legislation on the environment and then publish a review. plastics to chemicals. As we have seen from the floods In conclusion, this Government are committed to leaving caused by Storms Ciara and Dennis, the climate crisis is the environment in a better state than we found it, also leading to more extreme weather more often and whether through planting 30,000 hectares of trees a year with more severe consequences. by the end of this Parliament, transforming our approach to agriculture, tackling air pollution or improving our Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): The National waste management. This Bill will create the framework Flood Forum has noted that extreme and flash flooding to set a long-term course for our country to drive will be one of the greatest effects of the climate crisis. In environmentalimprovement,andIcommendittotheHouse. my constituency, we have experienced unprecedented flooding, and the River Taff’s levels rose by more than a Several hon. Members rose— metre above all previous records. If that is not a wake-up call, I do not know what is. Does my hon. Friend agree Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): A that the Government need to act urgently to secure large number of colleagues want to contribute to this better climate protections, to ensure that all other towns, debate, so I give warning that there will be an immediate villages and cities across the world are not impacted in seven-minute time limit on Back-Bench speeches. the way my community has been this week? 349 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 350

Luke Pollard: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her be strengthened, and the third relates to how the ambition intervention and for all the work that she and her Welsh of Government press releases needs to be translated colleagues have been doing in supporting communities into genuine delivery in the Bill. First, on standards and that are under water. We need much firmer action. We targets, we were promised during the election that the need a proper plan for flooding that reverses the austerity Government would not lower our food standards, despite cuts made to our flood defences, and that removes the all the evidence pointing to the contrary, in post-Brexit requirement for match funding which favours affluent trade deals. As we have already seen with the debates on communities over poorer ones. We also need urgent the Agriculture Bill, Ministers have chosen to leave the action from the Government to address the worrying door open for the undercutting of British farm and aspects of the legacy of the coal industry in Wales, food standards in post-Brexit trade deals. The new which could result in a real disaster if action is not Environment Secretary cannot even guarantee that taken. I encourage her to carry on campaigning on that. chlorinated chicken or lactic acid-washed chicken will As my hon. Friend has mentioned, Britain is not not be allowed into Britain as a result of the US trade unique in the challenges facing us in terms of the deal. The rough ride he got with the National Farmers climate catastrophe. In many cases, what will happen in Union this morning will just be the start if he does not the global south will be even more disastrous than what come to the realisation that many of us on both sides of is happening in the UK. That is why action cannot wait. this House have, that the commitment that he and others have given must be put into law. We cannot allow Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC): The hon. Gentleman our standards to be undercut, and that principle of not will be aware of concerns that the Bill does not focus allowing our standards to be undercut applies to this enough on the UK’s global footprint, so does he agree Bill too. We need to ensure that non-regression on that the Government should introduce a mandatory environmental standards with the EU is a floor that we due diligence mechanism, which would help to reduce must not go below. the UK’s global footprint? Geraint Davies: Will my hon. Friend give way? Luke Pollard: I am grateful for that intervention. It is Luke Pollard: I am going to make a bit of progress, a good reminder that one way in which we have but I will come back to my hon. Friend in a moment if decarbonised in the past few years has simply been by I can. exporting our carbon; we export not only waste, but the We simply cannot allow our environmental standards production of the most carbon-intensive products that to be undercut in the same way as our food and animal we use. The hon. Gentleman raises a good point. welfare standards risk being undercut with trade deals. We need to ensure that we have measures approaching Several hon. Members rose— dynamic alignment with the European Union so that Britain is not seen as a country with lower standards Luke Pollard: I will make some progress before taking than our European friends. Lower regulatory standards further interventions, mindful of the people who are to and lower animal welfare standards, especially on imported follow. food, would see damage to ecosystems and habitats and As a nation, we need a gold-standard Environment a downward pressure on regulation in future, which Bill. I agree with the Minister that we need world-leading would harm our efforts to decarbonise our economy. I legislation, but this is not it. This still looks like a draft want to see the lofty words said by all the Ministers on Bill; there has not been complete pre-legislative scrutiny the Front Bench and the Prime Minister about non- for the entire Bill, which I think it needs; it lacks regression put in the Bill. Where is the legal commitment coherence as between its different sections; and it lacks to non-regression on environmental protections that the ambition to tackle the climate crisis as a whole with the British people have asked for? Why is it not clearly a comprehensive and renewed strategy. Labour will be a in the Bill? If we are to have any hope of tackling the critical friend to Ministers during this process. We will climate emergency in a meaningful way, we need to be be not be opposing the Bill today, but in that spirit we aiming towards net zero by 2030, not by 2050. hope that Ministers will look seriously at adopting the measures we will put forward to improve and strengthen Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): On net it, especially in Committee. zero by 2030, does the hon. Gentleman not recognise what the Committee on Climate Change and Baroness Brown I have a concern about the positioning of the Bill: it recognise, which is that reaching net zero by 2050 will be has been spun so hard by successive Governments, and a huge challenge for this country? Blithely throwing Secretaries of State in particular, that it cannot possibly around “2030” as though this is easy is doing a disservice deliver the grand soundbites that it has been set up as not just this House, but to the people watching. doing. That means that the heavy lifting required now to address our decarbonisation efforts and protect our Luke Pollard: I am a big fan of the hon. Gentleman’s communities may be hampered, because the Bill will Instagram feed and follow it with great passion, and not be able to deliver on those lofty promises. I worry sometimes I feel a bit disappointed by interventions that unless we match those grand soundbites with such as that. We cannot afford not to hit net zero by determined action, we will be failing our children and 2030, but the Government are currently on track for the communities we are here to serve. 2099. A far-off date many, moons away will not deal In the time left, I want to cover three key areas of with the climate emergency and will not protect our concern about the Bill. The first relates to Labour’s habitats that need protecting. That drive needs to be belief that non-regression in environmental standards there, though we know that for some sectors achieving must be a legal requirement. The second relates to how net zero target by 2030 will be very challenging, and for the new Office for Environmental Protection needs to some achieving it by 2050 will be very challenging, with 351 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 352 agriculture being one of those sectors. The NFU’s plan Bim Afolami: I do so in the spirit of kindness, but to hit net zero by 2040 is very challenging. If sectors are there is a serious point here. Luton airport is in the to deliver net zero by any date, we will need some constituency next to mine, and one concern that many sectors to go faster and further than others to create of my constituents have as a result is about air quality. carbon headroom, with the requirement that that progress All of our constituencies will have separate issues. What is not double-counted in carbon calculations. Sadly, this is the hon. Gentleman’s view as to how we can use this supposedly world-leading Environment Bill does not Bill to apply to specific instances at specific times—for have a single target in it. It contains no duty on Ministers example, to deal with poor air quality around Luton to ensure that Britain decarbonises and stops the climate airport? crisis getting any worse. Secondly, I turn to the Office for Environmental Luke Pollard: I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman Protection—the proposed new regulator. I know from and will like more of his Instagram posts as a reward for previous debates that some Conservative Members are that kind intervention. We do need to address air quality not too keen on the idea of a new Government outfit around airports and transport modes in particular, but created in this space, but I agree with Ministers that we the ability to do that is predicated on the data, which is need a robust regulator. Sadly, the one being proposed why my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and in the Bill is not strong enough in our view. We need it Leamington (Matt Western) made the point that he did to have teeth, and a remit that is unaffected by Government earlier. It is important to make sure that we take action patronage. It needs to carefully consider the science and based on reliable evidence, which means that we need to have a bite that would make Ministers think twice the right testing stations. At the moment there are far about missing their targets. That is what the Office for too few air-quality monitoring stations. We need to go Environmental Protection should be, but, sadly, that is forward by embracing having monitoring stations on not what the Bill envisages. more schools, more GP surgeries and in more areas with a greater level of public dwelling. That is how we The new regulator does not have true independence should address the issue. For airports in particular, it is from Government. It has no legal powers to hold the about surface access and making sure that people can Government to account in the way it needs to. Approving get to airports more easily. its chair via a Government-led Select Committee, on I have been coughing and spluttering for a while, so I which the Government have a majority, is not sufficient. will rush through the rest of my speech so that I do not Given that Ministers have been dragged time and time take up anyone else’s time. As Conservative Members again through the courts for missing air quality targets, have said, the part of the Bill that deals with water does how can we ensure that this regulator would make that not go far enough to deal with some of the issues a thing of the past and not a repeat prescription? relating to water poverty, or do anything to address per We need Ministers to do as Members on both sides capita consumption or meaningful water labelling or to have suggested today and adopt World Health Organisation solve the challenge of where we are going to get the targets for air quality and particulates. Weneed regulators water that we need for the homes we need to build in to have teeth to make sure that those targets are enforced, future. For the Bill to be genuinely world leading, I and we need to make sure that the new regulator sits would have hoped that the Government would adopt and works in a complementary way in and with what some of the current groundbreaking ideas in water is an already quite congested regulatory space on the policy, such as water neutrality, which is the idea that environment. for every new home that we build we will not provide any more water resources—they will be offset by water Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab): Prospect the efficiency in our existing housing stock. There are some union has written to me expressing its concern that only really grand opportunities and fantastic water innovations, 100 staff will be employed by the Office for Environmental which is why we need the Bill to go further on water Protection. Does the shadow Minister share my concerns efficiency in our homes, actions on leaks and investment about this under-resourcing? in water-efficient technologies. We also need a war on leaky loos, as that is important. Luke Pollard: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Since 2010 we have seen that quangos and I would like the Government to look at a commitment regulators can still exist but their ability to deliver that whereby the water industry moves to using 100% renewable regulation and the quality of that regulation depends energy within the next five years. Ministers already have on the resources. If a political lever is being applied by the power to do that, given the regulatory powers of Ministers—as I have said before, I have a lot of time for Ofwat and DEFRA. the current Environment Secretary, but that does not Finally, the Secretary of State has already mentioned necessarily mean that anyone who follows him would that the Bill includes a section on trees that will allow have the same approach—if budgets were to be changed trees to be chopped down in a different way. The Bill and if political patronage were to be applied in terms of does not include any new powers to plant trees. That the OEP’s leadership and board, that could affect the seems to be an omission: I imagine Members from all outcomes. Resourcing does matter. parties will look at the Bill and say, “Surely that’s not right.” Given that the Government are missing their Several hon. Members rose— tree-planting target by 71% already, further powers to chop down trees do not seem to be the priority. We need Luke Pollard: I will not take any further interventions, to look into not only how to plant more trees but at so that I can finish my remarks. [Interruption.] I say different types of biodiversity and habitats, and make that, but that would have been a good time for one. I sure that carbon is sequestered in the right way. That is come to the section of my speech about water, unless really important, because if we are to address the loss of someone would like to intervene briefly. [Laughter.] species,both in the UK and globally,we need to take action. 353 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 354

[Luke Pollard] govern the climate and nature emergency in which we find ourselves. We need clarity as to whether the OEP COP26 provides us with a global platform to showcase will be set up, particularly in England and Northern the very best of our global thinking, our action and our Ireland, as of 1 January 2021. legislation. Currently, the Bill does not deliver the groundbreaking global platform that we need to take Neil Parish: Naturally, there is the matter of how the into COP26. I hope that Ministers will take seriously OEP works with the devolved Administration in Northern the concerns that I have raised and that my Opposition Ireland, but I agree that it needs to have those powers. I colleagues will address when they speak later, because am sure that the Secretary of State will have listened to there is a real desire on both sides of the House to the hon. Lady’s intervention. improve the legislation and make it as genuinely world The appointments process in the setting up of the leading as the Secretary of State aspires for it to be. To OEP should follow the Office for Budget Responsibility that end, I invite the Secretary of State to work with us model, in which the Treasury Committee can veto the to improve the legislation; simply voting down every Chancellor’s choice. I am sure that my great friend the amendment so that we keep a clean sheet will not Secretary of State would not mind giving away some of deliver that. I hope that he will take that challenge in the his new fiefdom to the EFRA Committee, but we will spirit in which it is meant so that we can work together wait and see. I offer that to him—or perhaps he might to improve the legislation. The climate crisis needs to be offer it to me. addressed and it will not be sufficiently addressed if we My final point on the OEP is that my Committee allow the Bill to pass unaltered. concluded that judicial review is not the most appropriate 2.23 pm enforcement mechanism for environmental cases because it focuses on process rather than outcomes and leaves Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): It is a great the decision making to the lawyers. That is a really pleasure to speak in this debate on the Second Reading important point. I welcome the tribunal model in the of the Environment Bill. I am pleased that the Government Bill, because I hope that it will allow environmental have reintroduced the Bill and I am also pleased that specialists to have a role. We need practical solutions for there is a degree of co-operation with the Opposition. It when the Government are in breach—such as we have is important that we get the Bill absolutely right. with air-pollution plans—rather than lawyers and going In the previous Parliament, the Environment, Food and through process all the time. We really want to make Rural Affairs Committee conducted pre-legislative scrutiny sure that we get the experts in place. of the previous Bill, and I am pleased that the legislation has moved towards some of our recommendations. For Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con): Does my hon. example, I welcome the fact that the Government will Friend believe it is necessary to make sure that there is a set a multi-annual budget for the Office for Environmental time limit for the investigations that the OEP might Protection and have included climate change within its undertake, so that we can see a speedy reaction to any remit. We just need to make sure that there is enough issues that may arise? money for the OEP to run properly. I wish to make three points about how the Bill can be Neil Parish: My hon. Friend makes a good point. We improved. First, concerns have been expressed that in do not want to waste years in the courts; these things some areas, such as target setting, the Bill might allow a have to be done quickly. We need practical solutions for weakening of standards—for example, on air quality. I when the Government are in breach, just as we have with welcome the plan to set a target for particulate matter, airpollutionplans.Iamstillconcernedthattheenvironmental but it is planned only for 2022, and we do not know how review outlined in the Bill is just a judicial review by ambitious the target might be. At this early stage, I urge another name. We have a great opportunity to build on the Government to set an example and match the World our strong commitment to the environment. We all want Health Organisation guidelines for dangerous emissions to leave the environment in a better place than we found such as particulate matter. The British Heart Foundation it. Will the Secretary of State look again at some of our estimates that the number of heart attacks and stroke Select Committee proposals, because the Bill can still be deaths linked to air pollution could exceed 160,000 by strengthened in many areas? One final point on the OEP 2030, unless action is taken. DEFRA has already carried is that the judicial review is not the most appropriate out a study that shows that it can achieve World Health enforcement mechanism for environmental cases. We Organisation standards of 10 micrograms per cubic metre therefore need a more practical solution. by 2030, so I urge the Government to set that target. Let Finally, I ask the Government, as we have made a us put that target into law now and use the Bill to commitment to improve the environment, to look not improve human health as well as our natural environment. only at the Environment Bill, but at the Agriculture Bill Secondly, it is vital that we set up the Office for and the Fishing Bill, because they all fit together. As yet Environmental Protection now that we are outside the another round of flooding seems likely in the future, the EU; however, it needs to be independent of Government Environment Bill will be important, as will be the and have the teeth to bite. The OEP will not be independent Agriculture Bill. Fitting the two together with new land if it is constantly worrying about having its budgets cut, management projects will be a very good way of making so will the Government commit to a multi-annual budget sure that we can deliver a catchment-area basis for settlement, the enshrinement in law of which I would flooding. We can also improve our environment and welcome? work with the water companies on holding more water and on making sure that the reservoirs do not overflow. Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP): I think we all We can also look at the rewetting of peatland. All of agree that we certainly do not want an OEP that is a those things can be done, but they must be linked with toothless tiger; we want one that can react to and the Environment Bill. 355 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 356

Finally—I am sure that this is in the minds of Ministers The Bill still does not lend strength to enforcement. and the Secretary of State—we must ensure that we join There are still no strong compliance powers for the new up the Environment Bill with the Agriculture and Fishing watchdog, the OEP, in the Bill and those that it will have Bills, and also make sure that, as we drive towards a will be restricted to wagging a finger at backsliding better environment, we do so across the whole of public bodies. This was an opportunity to make a clear Government. This cannot just be done by the Department case for environmental improvement and protection. for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, because things This was an opportunity to lay down markers on protecting such as delivering on air quality can only be achieved the marine environment, putting protections in place across Government. for the oceans, improving river health and securing decent I look forward to the Bill being read a Second time. It bathing waters. is taking us in the right direction, but let us also look at Sir Charles Walker: Let me just say something about the independence of the OEP. We also need to make protecting the marine environment. By the way, the sure that tribunals deal not just with legal matters, but hubris of this House is just stunning when it comes to with environmental matters. With that, I very much the environment. We talk about saving the world, but welcome the Second Reading of this Bill. instead, in England, we have trashed our chalk streams. In Scotland, the salmon farming industry has entirely 2.31 pm destroyed the sea lochs of the west coast of Scotland, Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP): I made them barren of sea life, and destroyed the salmon refer hon. Members to my speech on 28 October when runs coming in and out of the rivers. If we could we had the dress rehearsal for this Bill—at least we all perhaps act locally, we might be able to talk in a more know our lines now. None the less, the concerns remain informed way globally. the same, because they have not been addressed: the Bill still lacks in ambition; the Office of Environmental Deidre Brock: I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising Protection still lacks teeth; the Ministry of Defence is that issue. Certainly, there is much hubris in this Chamber still exempt; the armed forces can still cause environmental about such issues. Something that I will come on to is havoc; national security is still off limits for environmental the Scottish Government’s environmental strategy, which consideration; renewable energy still does not get the was released in the past couple of days, in which issues big licks it should be getting; and this Bill is still, in my such as those are certainly being looked at. view, insipid and weak. David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): I am very grateful Worse than that, clause 18 should force Ministers to to my hon. Friend for giving way.In response to the point consider the environment when making policy, but, as I made by the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles have already said, it exempts the military and national Walker), for whom I have a lot of respect and with security. It also exempts tax, spending and the allocation whom I have a lot of similarities in terms of our love of of resources. In other words, it exempts the main thrusts angling, I say that the salmon fishing industry has been of Government policy—the biggest tools in the Government hugely important to large parts of the west coast of cupboard. If resource considerations do not take Scotland, not least the Western Isles. Sometimes when environmental concerns into account, we will hardly be we talk about hubris, we need to think about the local driving Government policy towards good environmental economy as well, which is so important for our country. goals. If taxation policy does not have a weather eye on Deidre Brock: An excellent point and I thank my hon. environmental policy, it misses the opportunity to ensure Friend for making it. that the polluter pays. It misses the chance to engage Brexit was supposed to give the UK Government the Government’s biggest lever of public policy. Equally, if power to do things differently—to imagine a better way spending decisions are not environmentally aware, then to do things. Whether Brexit was ever capable of doing the Government are not environmentally aware. If the that is a moot point, but it does not really matter, Government were serious about delivering environmental because the Government do not have the ambition to benefits, that would have been the key point of the Bill try. They do not have the imagination to see a better —it would have been proclaiming a commitment to change, way to do things, or the determination to improve lives. to improvement, to making a future unlike the past. There could be ambitious, legally binding limits on If there really were an environmental heart to this plastic pollution, and limits on how much could be Government, it would be at the heart of this Bill. It produced, used and discarded. There could be incentives, would tie all governmental resourcing decisions into perhaps even tax incentives, for retailers to cut the improving the environment, and into considering the plastic. If they cannot even rate measures to improve environmental impact of policies. It would put the the health of the oceans as being worthy of putting in environment at the middle of decision making. It did this Bill, where really then is the commitment to addressing not happen; it has not happened. This Bill is just ticking climate change? a box to say that the gap left by Brexit is being filled, but Geraint Davies: Does the hon. Lady agree that this that filler is not reaching the edges of that gap. needs to sit alongside a fiscal strategy that taxes virgin Even the hiatus of an election and the inordinately plastic, that has a go at diesel particulates and, indeed, long time it has taken to bring this Bill back have not at dangerous chemicals? Unless the Department works offeredtheGovernmentenoughtimetomakeimprovements closely with the Treasury to deliver that, we will simply to the Bill. Still, there is nothing that will force England’s not be able to deliver on our ambition. water companies to address the leakage from their pipes to conserve that resource. The clue to decent performance Deidre Brock: I absolutely agree with the hon. Member. there, of course, is to remove the profit motive and have This really needs to be taken in the round, and I see water publicly owned, as it is in Scotland. little evidence of that in the Bill. Further to that, where 357 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 358

[Deidre Brock] education and action all rolled up into one. I urge Members to take the time to read it. It is so good that are the measures to combat climate change in the Bill? Charles Dundas, the chair of Scottish Environment The climate emergency gets lots of warm words from LINK, a former Lib Dem councillor and colleague of Whitehall, but it gets so little in the way of action. If an mine, said: Environment Bill is not the place for addressing the “It is fantastic to see such a bold vision for the protection of biggest environmental issue of the day, where is? Scotland’s environment, which, as the Scottish Government says, is fundamental to our future.” Wera Hobhouse: On the issue of waste, may I ask the I tell Ministers that it is not too late to have some real hon. Lady for cross-party support for the amendment ambition in the Bill. It is not a done deal and they still that I am tabling on the obligation of local councils to have time to make wholesale changes and massive provide traceability on the end destination of our household improvements to make this a Bill that they can be proud waste? In that way, the public can be confident that the of. The political will is all that is needed. They would recycling that we collect does not end up in the ocean or find agreement, as we have already heard, on both sides indeed in incinerators, but actually gets recycled. That is of the Chamber, and they would have the pleasure and the amendment that I will put forward, and I am privilege of knowing that they actually contributed looking for cross-party support. Will she provide it? during their careers. Do something fabulous, Ministers! Do something you will be proud of in your old age, Deidre Brock: I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution. amend the Bill and make it fit for purpose. That is certainly something that I am prepared to look Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): It at, but, of course, local councils and local authorities is a pleasure to call Rob Butler to make his maiden are an issue for England and Wales only. Those issues speech. are devolved to Scotland, so it is not necessarily something that we would be able to support in actuality, but I 2.43 pm certainly agree with the principle of what she said. I was talking previously about targets and real action—or Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con): Thank you, Madam lack of targets and real action—so where are the provisions Deputy Speaker. It is an honour to have the opportunity to encourage tree planting? During the election, so to make my maiden speech in this debate on the many pledges were bandied back and forth about how Environment Bill, which will have far-reaching implications many trees would be planted under a Tory or Labour for our economy and our society, heralding a cleaner, Government. Hundreds of millions were promised, but greener nation. here is the first opportunity to do something about that, There is only one place to begin my remarks today, and there is nothing—not a squirt. I find it amazing and that is in paying tribute to my predecessor, Sir David that Scotland has only around a third of the landmass Lidington. David was the Member of Parliament for of the UK, but four fifths of the tree planting in the UK Aylesbury for fully 27 years. He held senior ministerial is in Scotland. Let us at least see some indication that roles, culminating as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster the UK Government will at least pretend to follow suit. and Minister of State for the Cabinet Office during some particularly testing times for the last Government. While we are on the subject, how about implementing Whenever I mention David, the response is the same—that policies to discourage the importation of products that he is a man who is decent, dedicated and thoughtful, a have caused deforestation elsewhere, or which have gentleman and the epitome of the public servant. When contributed to the pressure to clear forest? How about a a new colleague was talking to me about David recently, commitment to write that into trade deals? How about he had just one question, “Do you have an equally big placing an obligation on businesses to consider such brain?” My answer was simple—“No.” After all, David things in the course of their operations? In fact, the real led his Cambridge college to victory on “University thing that is missing from the Bill is a clear governmental Challenge”, not once but twice, whereas the only TV quiz intention to force businesses to get on board with show I competed on twice was “Blankety Blank”. improving the environment. It is as if the Government think that businesses will not be robust enough to handle Bim Afolami: Is that true? that compliance. If the Government will not lead, they cannot expect people, businesses and organisations to Rob Butler: It is true. do it instead. Ministers have an obligation to find ways David did, of course, have the advantage of serving to really drive this agenda forward, and so far they have the magnificent constituency of Aylesbury, which I now failed in that. have the great privilege to represent. Aylesbury has been The old 25-year environment plan is outdated and a part of my life for longer than I can remember. I was needs to be refreshed. The Bill—the reprise—starts its born in the Royal Bucks Hospital in the town, and my life outdated and in need of improvement. Fortunately, first home was in Bedgrove. My roots in the constituency there is a shining example of excellence not too far go back even further. My great-grandfather was the away—I am not talking about Wales, to be clear—which village blacksmith in Bledlow Ridge. Aylesbury can is a ready-made vision of a future where compliance trace its history to the iron age, has held a market since with environmental objectives is seen to be the norm, Anglo-Saxon times and has been the proud county rather than the exception, and where Ministers are not town of Buckinghamshire for close to 500 years. afraid to take on leadership roles and are prepared to The historic quarter of the town centre retains its ensure that businesses and organisations take action charm and appeal to locals and visitors alike. It includes too. Scotland’s environmental strategy, released this statues of Benjamin Disraeli, the father of one nation week as I mentioned earlier, is a plan worth copying. It Conservatism, and of John Hampden, commemorating is a plan worth following: it has vision, leadership, his role asserting the rights of Parliament against Charles 359 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 360

I. There is also now a statue of David Bowie, who in the Many of those farmers are enthusiastic about the Bill. 1970s staged the world debut performances of two They recognise their unique role in the stewardship of albums at the legendary Friars music club in the town. the land and preservation of the countryside, and I am Visitors should be aware that the statue bursts into song confident that the Bill will enable our farmers to ensure on the hour: more than one unsuspecting tourist has our food security and run sustainable businesses, while had rather a shock when out of nowhere comes a playing their part in ensuring the highest environmental rendition of “Ziggy Stardust”. standards. One historic building that is rarely remarked upon is The farms, villages and hamlets in my constituency the prison, a Victorian edifice dating from 1847. It is a lie in beautiful countryside, but they face the same place that holds particular interest for me, however, as challenges as many other rural areas, including access until recently I served as a non-executive director of to health services, buses and broadband. Although HM Prison and Probation Service and as the magistrate Buckinghamshire is often regarded as affluent, my member of the Sentencing Council. I hope to continue constituency also has pockets of deprivation, and I will that work in Parliament, focusing particularly on two strive to ensure a fairer deal for everyone I represent themes—making our prison estate fit for purpose and because, like each and every one of us in this Chamber, putting victims right at the heart of the criminal justice I am only here because of my constituents. As a former system. Perhaps I may say at this point that I regard our journalist, I am acutely aware of the need for accountability prison and probation officers as the unsung heroes of to them and to the public in general. Politics has not our public services. had a good press in recent years and it is beholden on us Among the more notorious inmates of Aylesbury to improve that, not for the sake of a good headline or prison were the Great Train Robbers, which brings me hundreds of likes on a tweet, but in order to rebuild neatly to HS2. As the home of the Aylesbury duck, it faith and confidence that our institutions and representatives has been said by many of my constituents that HS2 is truly uphold democracy and deliver in the best interests simply quackers. Seriously though, as the Member of of all the people. Parliament for Aylesbury and speaking in the debate on I am honoured to be in this place at this pivotal time the Environment Bill, I would not be forgiven by my in our country’s history, when we forge new relationships constituents if I did not mention HS2. Opposition to and trade links around the world, and set out robust the project has long been the single biggest issue in my and far-reaching new laws to preserve and protect our constituency.Thousands of residents are both disappointed part of the world through this Environment Bill. I and frustrated by the decision to proceed, not least conclude by expressing my sincere gratitude to the because of the harm HS2 will do to the environment, people of the Aylesbury constituency for putting their including the destruction of more than 100 ancient trust and faith in me to represent them here. woodlands. The actions of HS2 Ltd and its contractors 2.50 pm have already provoked many complaints to me, and I take this opportunity to state that I will be unwavering Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab): What a in holding them to account. great pleasure it is to follow the maiden speech of the new hon. Member for Aylesbury (Rob Butler). I look Aylesbury is setting itself up to thrive throughout the forward to him bringing in his “Blankety Blank” 21st century. Faced with the same challenges as many chequebook and pen so that we can all admire it in the medium-sized market towns, not least the decline of the Tea Room. May I also pay a very warm tribute to his traditional high street, there is a passionate ambition to predecessor, David Lidington, who I shadowed for a become a real community and commercial hub where while? I have to say that I did not actually enjoy shadowing people want to live, work, visit and invest. Already the him—not because of his intellect, which was clearly Waterside theatre and the Exchange have brought life there, but because he was a thoroughly decent person, back to the canal side. There has been significant house and I did not like to argue or battle with him because building, including across Aylesbury Vale, where the that just was not his way or mine. I congratulate the new population has grown by 10% in the last five years. hon. Member for Aylesbury and welcome him to this There is far more to come, with projections of a further place. 16,000 homes in and around the town by 2033. So I welcome the commitment in the Bill to require all I also welcome the Environment Bill as a step in the development to be accompanied by a 10% net gain in right direction, as my hon. Friend the Member for biodiversity. The Aylesbury garden town project goes Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) has even further in its vision to be not just green but—I am said, in tackling the existential threat that we face. After delighted to say—blue, with plans to create a garden-way years of delay, we cannot afford to wait any longer to encircling the town and to uncover hidden waterways. pass robust climate legislation matching the scale of the emergency. A year and a half ago, the Intergovernmental The people of Aylesbury are rightly proud that it was Panel on Climate Change made it clear that we had to the birthplace of the Paralympic movement, and they act urgently over the next 12 years or forever miss the now have pioneering plans to make the town fully opportunity to prevent climate catastrophe, but nothing accessible to all. has changed since that announcement, except that we There is much more than just the town of Aylesbury have lost one and a half of those 12 years. While the in the constituency. About a third of its population live Government have been preoccupied with the chaos of in villages and hamlets, wonderful places such as Wendover, Brexit, natural wildlife continues to disappear at an Stokenchurch, Aston Clinton, Weston Turville and alarming rate, flooding is at a record high and fossil fuel Hughenden. Two thirds of the area is agricultural, and I production continues to damage our climate. We keep have already very much enjoyed meeting farmers in the getting told that weather extremes are unprecedented constituency, and not just because they agreed to put up and one-in-100-year occurrences—and then they happen gigantic posters of me during the election campaign. again the next year. 361 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 362

[Christian Matheson] As we reach the crucial tipping point for climate change, the Government will be preoccupied with new I welcome the opportunity to debate this Bill, but the trade deals, cosying up to the climate change denying Government must address its significant limitations. I President Trump in a desperate attempt to secure any share the widespread concern expressed by the climate trade deal—however bad—to justify their exit from the groups that there are significant gaps in the Bill, weakening European Union. The OEP is a toothless environmental our capacity to take urgent action. I also generally watchdog with no capacity to issue fines or stand worry that, despite all the assurances to the contrary, independently from the Government to ensure that the Conservatives are using the opportunity of Brexit to environmental protections are upheld. A further weakness reduce standards and environmental protections and identified by both Chester Zoo and the World Wildlife enforcements, as the Labour party warned they would Fund is that the OEP has no jurisdiction over the seek to do. private sector, particularly fossil fuel companies. The One of the great pleasures of representing my hometown UK has the biggest fossil fuel subsidies in the EU, with of Chester is representing Chester Zoo, which is more £10.5 billion a year in support for fossil fuels, and the than simply a tourist attraction; it is leading the way in Tory party accepted generous donations from fossil fuel conservation and wildlife protection, and is a centre of investors during the election, at the same time as cutting global expertise and leadership in conservation and support for solar and onshore wind. environmentalism. The zoo’s work spans a wide and The absence of proposals to promote ethical procurement diverse range of conservation challenges, with a specific and sustainable, deforestation-free supply chains is a concern about protection of biodiversity. The zoo’s missed opportunity,and will prevent the Bill from achieving representatives tell me that they welcome the Bill, but its stated goal of being an “historic step change”. We share the concern that biodiversity protections could be should be following the lead of Chester, led by Chester diluted or ignored as local authorities struggle to implement Zoo, which has developed the sustainable palm oil city targets, and they emphasised that the climate emergency model, making Chester the first city in the world to is also a biodiversity emergency. adopt sustainable palm oil city status. Some producers The introduction of a mandatory 10% biodiversity and retailers such as Iceland—the shop, not the country— net gain requirement for all new developments is a step have chosen to step away from using palm oil at all. I in the right direction, but it puts the responsibility for welcome their commitment to preventing deforestation, implementing and enforcing biodiversity targets on the especially in south-east Asia, but I also note the view shoulder of local authorities, which are already on their that the adoption of sustainable palm oil production, as knees due to the central Government-imposed cuts that promoted by Chester Zoo and others, would be a more have crippled local government since 2010. Local authorities long-term solution. have neither the funding, nor any longer the capacity, to The UK has a chance to lead the way globally in enforce these crucial biodiversity targets.My local authority tackling the climate emergency. We cannot afford to be of Cheshire West and Chester has lost £300 million since less ambitious. I hope that the Government will recognise 2010, forcing it to make difficult financial choices. For the constructive points that my hon. Friends and I are example, at least half of its expenditure goes on adult making. The Bill has a long way to go before it can social care and care for the vulnerable. It is unrealistic successfully uphold the promise to leave nature in a better for the Government to further burden councils with the state for the next generation, because at the moment it responsibility for enforcing the 10% biodiversity net gain seems that we have a Government who are reneging on without providing additional funding or expert staff. their promise to maintain standards in environmental Habitat and species loss is a devastating result of protection and enforcement after Brexit, just as we warned climate change that cannot be overlooked. Will the they would do. And if they do that on environmental Minister tell me what the Government are doing to commitments, they will do it on food, consumer standards address this shortfall and provide a realistic solution to and employment protections. As the Bill progresses and the continued devastation of natural biodiversity across we seek to amend it, I hope that the Government prove the country? Would the Government be willing to consider me wrong and act on these concerns. making the 10% increase in biodiversity a minimum requirement to encourage developers to exceed the target? Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): It And I have to ask: is the planning system really the is a pleasure to call Cherilyn Mackrory to make her correct vehicle for restoring UK nature and wildlife? It maiden speech. has consistently failed to address other areas of societal 2.57 pm challenges, such as the provision of affordable housing, so why do the Government think it is fit for purpose Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): It is as a means of reversing the destruction of UK wildlife a true honour to be standing here today as the newly and habitats? elected representative for Truro and Falmouth—a whirlwind I have concerns about the Office for Environmental for me and my little family, as I was a candidate only for Protection. As we have already heard, perhaps the most five weeks before polling day. Cornwall, my adopted disappointing part of the Bill is its failure to create a home—but to which my husband, my daughter and truly independent environmental watchdog with any even my dog are native—has welcomed me warmly, and enforcement capabilities. The OEP’s budget is decided I would like to show my gratitude to my constituents by by the Government, meaning that the office will be under being a force for good in this role and a genuine help to the control of the same Government that it is designed all residents, regardless of how or whether they voted in to be holding to account. The lack of accountability is December. astonishing and removes any sort of independence, I am happy to say that it is a pleasure to pay tribute to allowing the Government to overlook environmental my predecessor. Sarah Newton entered this place in regulations whenever it is politically beneficial. 2010 and has always been a staunch advocate for securing 363 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 364 fairer funding for Cornwall. It is largely thanks to make the happiest it can be. I love them all, and I could Sarah’s efforts, along with her Cornish colleagues at the not be doing this without their unwavering support. time, that we are now expecting a women and children’s This is a definite team effort. facility at the Royal Cornwall Hospital in Truro, along I am the wife of a hook-and-line fisherman with an with a further £450 million for the NHS in Cornwall. under-10 metre vessel. When he rings to say that he is Sarah also ensured a stable future for Falmouth docks still an hour away from safety and the weather has taken for the first time in years. a turn for the worse that was not forecast, I can tell you Sarah served as a Minister in the Department for now that the dread is palpable. We need to champion Work and Pensions, and spoke passionately in this our small boats in any fishing deal that is coming our place several times in defence of the most vulnerable way. Their job is precarious enough. We need to support people in our society. Colleagues across the House have our coastal communities to brave the elements and spoken very fondly of Sarah, paying tribute particularly thrive in the 21st century. There are opportunities on to her compassion and kindness. On this I can concur. the horizon, and we need to grab them with both hands Having been a candidate for such a short time before and bring them home. my election, I have found her help invaluable. She even I am very proud to be part of this one nation put me up for my first week in Parliament, and that is Conservative party committed to being a world leader going above and beyond. I am sure that Members for conservation. I am also proud to represent the across the House will join me in wishing Sarah all the constituency where Surfers Against Sewage is located. very best for her future endeavours. It is one of the UK’s leading environmental organisations I am very lucky to represent Truro and Falmouth. It and has pioneered work to protect our seas and waterways is a fantastic constituency, from the beautiful rugged from plastic pollution as well as to improve water quality. and windswept north coast to the equally beautiful I have been passionate about looking after the natural rolling and gentle south coast—there are no favourites environment for longer than I can remember. It has here! It makes the bulk of its fortunes from fishing, always been instinctive to me that this is just something farming and tourism. However, we also have exciting we should do; we did not need to be told to do it. emerging industries such as geothermal energy, lithium This Environment Bill is bold. It will help to deliver extraction, and the potential for floating offshore wind the Government’smanifesto promise of the most ambitious farms—not forgetting theatre, breweries, surfing, sailing, environmental programme of any country on this earth, a thriving arts and food culture, campuses for two and I fully support its progress. I recommend much of universities, and more besides. its content, particularly with regard to waste management Falmouth was my first home when I came to Cornwall, and nature recovery. I would like to see the south-west and I can testify first hand as to why it regularly makes exceed the targets in it. I am very, very ambitious for The Times “happiest places to live” lists. Last year, this. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Secretary The Times described Falmouth as of State—my neighbour as the Member for Camborne “as close as Britain gets to the California/Barcelona city-by-the-sea and Redruth—on his new appointment and on his work lifestyle.” to date. I would agree, except more so once it stops raining. I would like to see a bigger reduction in the consumption It has not actually stopped raining since August. of single-use plastic. I think we can do this as a society. Falmouth boasts the third deepest natural harbour in We do not need to spend resources clearing it up. It is the world after Sydney and Rio, which is why fishing going to take a culture change. We are all consumers and sailing exist alongside a healthy working docks—and and it has to come from us. We will need help from that is so important to the economy. Cornwall has industry to make it convenient for consumers and also always been outward-looking and seafaring. Evidence good value for money. That is the way we will make it of overseas trade exists as far back as the bronze age. In happen. I would like to see greater checks and balances 1805, news of Britain’s victory and Nelson’s death at on our interim targets to ensure that we can stay on Trafalgar was landed at Falmouth and taken by stagecoach track in the short term as well as the long term. That is a to London. recipe for success. I would like to see a greater commitment to managing our oceans. If we do not look after the Truro is Cornwall’s only city. It is the base of Cornish marine environment, we will have no fishing industry in local government, fantastic shopping, and, with the Cornwall. The saying is, “Give a man a fish and you will completion of the Hall for Cornwall later this year, also feed him for a day, but teach him how to fish and you its centre for culture. The reopening of this hugely will feed him for a lifetime.” important establishment means that we can welcome over 200,000 people a year through its doors. It will also The Cornish are innovative,bold, and incredibly capable. house space for creative start-ups. It is set to transform It is my job to make sure that Cornwall gets the investment, the centre of Truro, as well as being a game-changer for the levelling up of funding and a fair chance so that my Cornwall as a whole. constituents and our children have the opportunity to swim, not sink. There is so much for Cornwall and the My family is my inspiration—and by the way, I am great south-west to be ambitious about. My constituents lucky enough to have the best one of those as well. My are determined, driven, and by far the most adaptable mum and dad—Gordon and Olwyn Williams—and my people I have met, and it will be my job to help make big sisters have guided me through all my experiences sure that we are ambitious for the future. and continue with their unending encouragement. It is the compassion that I have inherited from them that will drive me in my work in this place. My wonderful 3.5 pm husband, Nick, is endlessly patient, and his determination Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): It is a huge for work defies belief for most people; and we have our pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Truro and precious daughter Chloe, whose future I want to help Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory), who has just given an 365 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 366

[Dan Jarvis] key recommendations were put forward: first, to look after what we have by protecting and restoring existing outstanding maiden speech in which she very clearly trees and woodland; secondly, to create new policies, conveyed her passion and commitment to her constituents capacity and funding for woods and trees; and thirdly, and her constituency. She made an incredibly poignant to devolve more powers to local government. point about the precarious nature of seafaring. I wish A further measure that the Government could explore her well in this House, and I know that she will be a very is to expand on the ambition and innovation shown by powerful advocate for her constituents for many, many the northern forest initiative—a project spearheaded by years to come. the Woodland Trust and its community forest partners This Bill comes before Parliament at a time when in the region. The forest will see 50 million trees planted our country—indeed, our planet—faces two major over the next 25 years in the north of England, with environmental crises: climate change and biodiversity more than 600,000 already in the ground. It is the collapse. The debate on the climate emergency here in perfect example of the kind of project we must deliver the UK has shifted very rapidly from the fringes to the on if we are serious about reversing the damage done to mainstream in just a matter of a few years. For those of the natural environment. us who represent communities such as the ones I am I have three asks of the Government in respect of the proud to represent in South Yorkshire that have recently Bill and tree planting. First, will they ensure that they been devasted by flooding, it is not difficult to understand link this Bill, the Agriculture Bill and the national tree why,because we are no longer talking about the existential strategy, so that a coherent and unambiguous plan for threat to future generations but about the immediate increasing tree cover is achieved, as well as other threat to family homes and small businesses. environmental targets? Secondly, once the national tree There is now close to universal agreement that the strategy is published, will the Government amend the Government must take urgent action to address the Bill, so that it refers to that strategy? Finally, will they climate emergency, and this Environment Bill represents commit to grow the northern forest? their first real test. It is important to note, however, that This is a vital piece of legislation and an opportunity regional and local government also has a crucial role to for the Government to show leadership on the global play—it cannot simply be left to Westminster and to stage in the fight against the climate emergency. We Whitehall to tackle this crisis alone. To date, 287 councils cannot afford any more missed opportunities, and it is and eight combined authorities, including my own, have quite clear that the Bill still requires improvement. One declared a climate emergency. We understand the extent way the Government could show that leadership is to of the crisis, but we need the resources to make meaningful firm up their commitments on tree planting. change. This is an extensive Bill covering a wide range of Several hon. Members rose— issues, but I would like to focus my short contribution on tree planting. One point on which I hope we can all MrDeputySpeaker(MrNigelEvans):IcallDrBenSpencer agree is the important role of trees in tackling this to make his maiden speech. emergency. Trees capture carbon, reduce soil erosion, improve air quality, alleviate flooding, and support 3.10 pm biodiversity. Expansion of our woodlands will be key if Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con): we are to be successful in preventing irreversible damage Seven years ago, working as a doctor on call at St Thomas’s to the environment. Indeed, the Government’s Committee Hospital, I looked across the river at this place and on Climate Change set a target of 17% to 19% woodland wondered what it would be like to be here—and now I cover as a key part of the UK’s actions to reach net zero know. It is remarkably similar to being on call, but emissions by 2050. The requirement in the Bill for local permanently. Being a Member of Parliament is a great highway authorities to consult members of the public privilege and duty, and I would like to thank the people before felling street trees will be welcomed by communities of Runnymede and Weybridge for putting their trust up and down the country. It is important, though, that and faith in me. I will do my all to repay that trust. I this duty is properly resourced if it is to provide meaningful would like to thank the people who work on and around consultations. the parliamentary estate, who have been so welcoming However, it is disappointing to see that this Bill does and discharge their duties with dedication, diligence and not include a statutory requirement for the Government resolute professionalism. to produce a national tree strategy for England, as is the I pay tribute to my predecessor, the right hon. Philip case in Scotland. Given that work is already well under Hammond. Philip was a phenomenal Member of way to develop an English tree strategy for consultation Parliament. He served his country and the people of in the coming months, I hope the Government will Runnymede and Weybridge for over 22 years. He held consider amending the Bill so that it refers to the many of the highest offices of state. It is rumoured that forthcoming strategy. This would send out a positive he, like me, was a teenage goth. It is true—I was—but I signal about the importance of trees and woodlands, didn’t dye my hair though. While there are some key and their important role in tackling the crises of climate areas on which Philip and I do not agree, most of all and biodiversity. Furthermore, it would reinforce the he is a man of principle. When push came to shove, he commitments made in the Government’s own manifesto, stood by his principles, and that is the measure of a in which they pledged to plant 30 million trees a year man. by 2025. I have heard many excellent maiden speeches from One way that the Government could demonstrate Members on both sides of the House. Mr Deputy their resolution would be to act on the Woodland Speaker, it probably will not surprise you that I have Trust’s emergency tree plan proposals, in which three noticed a pattern: it would appear that everywhere, all 367 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 368 over the country, is the most beautiful and pleasant my life, such as going to a state grammar school in the place to live. I want to put it on record that Runnymede west midlands.But words like “equality”and “opportunity” and Weybridge truly, truly, truly is the most beautiful are often bandied around without context or meaning. and pleasant place to live. It is also central to the history As a mental health doctor, I have worked in many of our nation. Magna Carta, signed over 800 years ago, different hospitals and seen people from all walks of was the birth of the rule of law in our country and, life. I know what a lack of opportunity looks like. Sadly, indeed, the world. This Parliament may be the mother I have seen people without hope—people who cannot of all Parliaments, but Runnymede is the mother of the aspire and achieve, hamstrung in life by bad schools, no rule of law. jobs, shabby housing, poor mental health or addiction. When I walk through the Churchill arch and see the When, working as a doctor, I have supported people get bomb damage from the second world war, I am reminded back into work or get a decent place to live, it has often of Brooklands in Weybridge. It was in Brooklands, been better than any medicine I could prescribe. It must where the first racing track was built and which went on be that the successes of those who dare to dream are to become the site of an advanced aviation factory, that only bounded by their industry and talents. over 2,500 Wellington bombers and 3,000 Hurricane Turning to today’s debate, we have always taken the fighters were built during the second world war. For lead on the most pressing issues of our time. Today it is both those reasons, quite literally, we would not be here our environment and climate change. Sadly, air pollution today without the legacy of Runnymede and Weybridge. levels are high in Runnymede and Weybridge, driven by Our heritage is second to none. the motorways that criss-cross the constituency and the There are many parts of the constituency that I flightpaths that we live under. This Bill will make strides would celebrate today if I had more time, but what to improve our health and wellbeing and secure our makes Runnymede and Weybridge great are the people children’s future. and our warm and vibrant communities—from the From my office in Parliament, I can now look back at famous, such as the Wentworth estate, where the PGA St Thomas’s Hospital, and when I do I am reminded tour takes place, to the not-so-famous, such as the that things do not always go as we expect. For many Englefield Green Social Hall, where the Christmas people, things do not go to plan in life. We need a strong performance of the “Beauty and the Beast” pantomime safety net of welfare and public services, such as our was the highlight of my election campaign. The consequence NHS, which I am proud to have worked in for over of having such vibrant communities and flourishing 10 years, and which my wife continues to work in. Our Christmas fairs is that I have now developed a tombola public services need effective management, leadership addiction, but I do have several sets of bath salts and and funding, paid for by a flourishing economy and led some odd fruit cordials and drinks at the back of my by a strong Conservative Government. All this is why cupboard that I have won, which Members are welcome I am a Conservative and why I am here today. to take home to their families. We are all here on borrowed time, by the grace of our ROYAL ASSENT constituents, so let me tell you a little of my mission here. It is equality of opportunity. It is that everyone, no Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I have to notify matter who they are or where they come from, has great the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, opportunities in life—the opportunity to learn, to have that Her Majesty has signified her Royal Assent to the a meaningful and worthwhile job, to set up a business following Act: and to grow old in peace and security. I would not be Terrorist Offenders (Restriction of Early Release) here today without the great opportunities that I had in Act 2020. 369 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 370

Environment Bill We need to look at protecting and restoring our peatlands, salt marshes and other carbon sinks. This Debate resumed. was mentioned in the Agriculture Public Bill Committee yesterday.Apparently, there are various strategies around, 3.18 pm and it all seems quite piecemeal. My concern is how we Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): It is a pleasure hold the Government to account if there is a certain to follow the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge amount of provision in legislation, but also lots of (Dr Spencer), who certainly has big shoes to fill. The other documents that are not legally binding and cannot way he talked about how his experiences in his previous necessarily be challenged in Parliament. In some ways, professional life led him to want to make change in this that could muddy the water in relation to what we are place was particularly poignant. We may find that we trying to achieve. could have a conversation about music at some point, I will not go into detail about the Office for although I maintain that I was never a goth. There is a Environmental Protection, other than to say that I hope local satirical magazine in Bristol that has nicknames it is still coming to Bristol. It does need more independence for all the local politicians, and I am invariably referred and more power. It needs to be properly resourced, to as “pint-sized goth MP Kerry and ‘the Banshees’ because there is no point in its having the power to McCarthy”. conduct its own investigations unless it is actually given This Bill concerns the technical and mechanical the resources to carry out those investigations properly. arrangements for putting these measures into law.However, It must also be given the power then to impose fines. I a real lack of vision surrounds not only this hefty piece hope the Government will consider this in Committee. of legislation but the Government’s general approach. I Alarmingly—this was mentioned in passing in an am increasingly concerned that we are not showing intervention—in the year we are set to host COP26 and leadership in the run-up to COP26. We have not had a there is also the international biodiversity conference in statement from the Government since the election or China, the Bill is completely silent on the UK’s global since the COP president was replaced by the Business environment footprint. We cannot just try to put our Secretary, and there is so much more that could be done own house in order when we are a global nation—we in showing global leadership on the climate and ecological are trading, we are importing and exporting—and having emergencies. a considerable impact often on countries that are On the Bill specifically, the four principal concerns contributing very little to climate change themselves. raised on Second Reading last October, as well as by the We need a target to reduce our overseas impact, Environmental Audit Committee and the Environment, including specific action on deforestation. It is a sad Food and Rural Affairs Committee during pre-legislative reality that economic activity by the UK, whether via scrutiny, have not changed. There is still no substantive finance or imports, has played a significant role in the commitment to non-regression in environment law, and destruction of the world’s forests to produce food. Last until that is included the Government’sverbal commitments year, Global Witness identified that UK-based financial on maintaining standards are, frankly, difficult to believe. institutions have been the single biggest source of The Secretary of State spoke at the National Farmers international finance for six of the most harmful Union conference today, and he knows that the farming agribusiness companies involved in deforestation in Brazil, community is very much of that mind when it comes the Congo basin and Papua New Guinea, providing a to the Agriculture Bill, but the concern spreads much staggering £5 billion in finance over the last six years. wider among environmental groups as well. Meanwhile, UK imports of commodities such as beef, The clause on environmental principles—clause 16 leather, soy, palm oil and timber have been shown by the —needs to be strengthened. It is not good enough that World Wide Fund for Nature and the Royal Society for Ministers must simply have only due regard to them. It the Protection of Birds to take up an area of land—land is also a significant step backwards compared with the associated with deforestation—more than half the size arrangement we had within the EU. of the UK. That is why I completely support the calls by the The lack of urgency on targets is deeply worrying. WWF and Global Witness to amend the Bill to include The interim targets are not legally binding. The long-term a mandatory due diligence obligation, which would targets do not need to be set until 2022, and potentially require a business to identify and assess the nature of cannot be enforced for almost two decades. We do have the actual and potential adverse impact of its activities to have short-term milestones; otherwise, we will just on the environment and human rights, both domestically see action delayed again and again, and there will be no and internationally, as well as throughout its supply mechanism for holding the Government to account. As chains and investment chains. It would also require a has been mentioned, it is also quite worrying that the business to take appropriate action to avoid, mitigate Secretary of State has the power to revoke or lower a and remediate the negative impacts identified and assessed; target with very little scrutiny. to cease operations and investments where impacts cannot I would like to see much stronger action on land use be adequately mitigated; and to report on implementation in this country, particularly urgent action on natural of the due diligence plan, including the actions taken climate solutions. There tends to be an awful lot of talk and the effectiveness of those actions. I hope to serve on about planting trees, but that in itself is not enough to the Public Bill Committee, and if so, I will be seeking to compensate for the damage that is being done to our put forward amendments that tackle this. environment. I was at a very interesting event with the To conclude, it is not enough just to be planting trees all-party group on net zero yesterday, when I think it in our own backyard if we are contributing to the was said that natural climate solutions could account deforestation of vast swathes of the Amazon abroad. for 0.25 °C of trying to limit the rise in global warming to 1.5 °C or 2 °C. Several hon. Members rose— 371 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 372

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I call Saqib Bhatti Dorridge, Catherine-de-Barnes, and Balsall Common, to make his maiden speech. to name just a few. They capture the true character of the great British countryside like nowhere else, despite what my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and 3.25 pm Weybridge (Dr Spencer) earlier tried to tell the House. Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con): I am going to start by Meriden is home to Birmingham airport and the National congratulating all my hon. Friends and colleagues who Exhibition Centre. It has rail links to every part of the have given their maiden speeches today and in recent country, and will soon be home to a certain high-speed weeks. They truly have been of the highest order. I give rail link and interchange station. It has a Jaguar Land my maiden proudly representing the constituency of Rover plant, the prestigious Blythe Valley business park, Meriden. We are all a product of our journeys, so I am and Birmingham business park, which houses names grateful and privileged that I can stand here thanking such as Oracle, Arup, and Rolls-Royce, as well as new those who have been part of mine: my friends, my other market disrupters such as Gymshark. half, my family—thank you. If one travels north in my constituency, however, My predecessor,Dame Caroline Spelman, was a mightily there are communities in greater need of opportunity, impressive colleague and friend to many in the House. such as Chelmsley Wood, Castle Bromwich, Smith’s During her 22-year career,she held a number of important Wood, Kingshurst, and Fordbridge, where I see hard- positions, such as party chairperson, several shadow working and socially conscious people who have not Cabinet positions, Second Church Estates Commissioner experienced the benefits of economic progress. Recent and Secretary of State for Environment, Food and decades have seen more investment in those areas, and Rural Affairs. She did all of these with distinction, new facilities bring new opportunities, but as far as I am while demonstrating an unrelenting dedication to her concerned, until all members of our society feel the constituents—a dedication that I hope to emulate. I am effects of economic success, our job as parliamentarians sure the whole House will join me in congratulating her is not finished. son David, who last month rowed across the Atlantic As a former businessman and president of one of the with a friend as part of the Talisker challenge and broke largest chambers of commerce in the country, I have the world record. always advocated for social progress through economic Meriden is the largest constituency by geographical progress, and for the role that business plays as a force size in the west midlands. We have beautiful countryside, for good in society. I believe we must do all we can to booming local businesses and a vibrant community support business to thrive, and we must allow entrepreneurs spirit. My constituency takes its name from the village to take risks, create jobs, and drive society forward, of Meriden, known as Alspath in the Domesday Book. as that is the only way we will address the injustice of It originally made up part of Lady Godiva’s estate and, inequality. The difference between life expectancy in as many Members of this House will know, Lady Godiva Knowle in the south of my constituency, and Chelmsley rode through the streets of Coventry naked in protest Wood in the north, is 10 years. With higher crime levels against her husband’s tax rises. Mr Deputy Speaker, I and lower levels of employment, there is something have a lot in common with Lady Godiva—[Laughter.] inherently unfair about the disparity in the life prospects I do not know why they are all laughing: I love horses of two children born in the same constituency, a mere and, like Lady Godiva, I am a big advocate of low taxation. eight miles apart. However, I am going to wait for the Budget this time, The primary reason why any of us enters politics is before I decide to what degree and how I protest any because we want to make the lives of the people we new taxes. serve better. I am thinking of that young boy or girl In the Domesday Book, Meriden was known as the who, right now, is working hard to get the grades to be true centre of England. That was until the early 2000s, the first in their family to get an apprenticeship or go to when an over-zealous team at the Ordnance Survey university.Perhaps they are on an athletics track, running decided that the centre of England was in fact in the an extra lap so that one day they can represent their constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth country on the international stage and return triumphantly. (Dr Evans), but since I am not a bitter man and I do not I am thinking of that recruit to the emergency services hold a grudge, Mr Deputy Speaker, let me tell you why or armed forces, who is willing to risk life and limb for Meriden is still the beating heart of this country. this beautiful nation of ours, or of the immigrant who I wanted to speak in the Environment Bill debate came to this country, leaving everything behind, in order because my constituency has an excellent track record to build a better life for themselves and their family. on the green agenda, and Solihull Borough Council—my People may ask what unites us in our love for our council—has committed to becoming carbon neutral country, but that is simple: we dare to believe. We dare by 2030. The environment will pervade every area of to believe in a country where our children will have the policy making for my generation and many future best opportunities in life, and where our pensioners can generations to come. Infrastructure projects such as the grow old and live with dignity. We dare to believe in a ones in my constituency bring with them air pollution, country that is open, inclusive and optimistic. There are noise pollution and continuous threats to the green belt. those—a small few—who may try to create disunity I will work hard to represent my constituents, so that among us, and we must remember that hope and progress and developments never mean compromising opportunity will always defeat the ideologies of division on our quality of life. This is a tricky topic, but one and hate. from which I will never shy away. There is no “leave” or “remain”, Mr Deputy Speaker; Meriden is unique and picturesque. It has more than there is only our great global Britain—the Britain that 300 listed buildings and is steeped in history. It contains says it does not matter where somebody was born, idyllic villages such as Hampton in Arden, Knowle, where they come from, what they believe, who they love, 373 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 374

[Saqib Bhatti] they drink and the air they breathe. There is nothing more fundamental than keeping our constituents from or what anyone else says they are capable of achieving. harm. I therefore ask the Government to do what they Instead, as long as they share our values of respect, have said they will do and ensure we have non-regression hard work, and they stand up for what is right, they can in the Bill. achieve anything. We live and serve in the best country Of the four areas set out in the Bill, only one has any in the world. Unwavering in our commitment to our details and that is air quality,which is incredibly important. values, we have remained faithful to our vision for a I have one of the worst areas for air quality in the UK. better world, and we have always stood tall and firm in If the Bill is to have any meaningful impact on the the face of adversity. quality of our air, it should include a legally binding We must now hold that vision more closely and commitment to meet WHO levels on fine particulate dearly than ever before. As we embark on the final leg matter pollution by 2030 at the very latest. Even that of our journey to new-found independence, it is now will come at the expense of many of my constituents’ that we must remember our old friends and seek out lives. The Bills lacks coherence and fails to establish a new ones. It is now that we must speak up and act for link between the currently lacking target it sets out and those facing persecution and oppression across the world, the improvement plans the Government should be carrying and we must take seriously the threats to our environment out. Let us not forget that this is the Government who and society. We must remember everything that we have had to be taken to court three times over their lack of in common, and everything that unites us. We must action on air quality. My hon. Friend the Member for dare to believe. Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) talked about trees and I would like to reinforce what he said about that. 3.32 pm Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op): The Another area not covered in the Bill is beaches. Let us speech by the hon. Member for Meriden (Saqib Bhatti) not forget that the UK was one of the slowest countries does him great credit, and I am sure he will have a long in the EU to clean up its beaches. We were still pumping and illustrious career in this House. I will give him one raw sewage into the sea 20 years ago. Improvements to piece of advice: however much taxes may rise, unlike the quality of our natural water have come about as a Lady Godiva, could he please keep his clothes on in the result of the EU water framework and bathing water Chamber? directives. How can we now, in the Bill’s 233 pages, not include any targets for beaches? If it is likely that we are This Bill has been introduced because of Brexit. just going to get one target, will it be for rivers, water-borne There are a million reasons why people voted for Brexit. pollution, chemicals or ecological status? We do not For some, it was because of a lack of affordable housing, know. How can we just have a single water target? We because the UK was unable to make its own laws, or need to ensure that we transpose the protections we because Brexit would solve their concerns about low have in EU law into UK law. wages. Nobody, however, voted for Brexit because they wanted fewer environmental protections, yet I am sad I want to finish by talking about ministerial powers. to say that that is exactly what the Bill, as it stands, In the previous Parliament, we talked a lot about Henry VIII represents. That raises the question of how Britain powers. We seem to be returning to Tudor times once wants to present itself on the world stage, in the year more. The Bill confers sweeping powers to enact huge that we host COP to tackle the climate and ecological sections of the Bill on the say-so of the Secretary of emergency. State. He is not in his place, but I know he is a keen Until the end of this year,70% of the UK’senvironmental environmentalist. He will spend the majority of the protections will come from the union with Europe, Committee stage—I hope to serve on the Public Bill which has provided increasingly high environmental Committee—looking at this area, but the Bill does not standards for 45 years. The Bill represents the majority provide any targets or any information until 2022. How of the Government’s efforts to import those protections are we meant legally to enforce targets in that time from Europe into UK law, and it replaces wide-ranging period? It is not enough to say, “Trust me, I’m the protections with four simple domestic targets. Indeed, Secretary of State”. He will say that appointments to there are four target areas—water, air, biodiversity and the board of the new Office for Environmental Protection waste—with a minimum of one target required to be set will be made by him, but they will be made without in each. The media are reporting that the Treasury is parliamentary oversight. It will be sending reports to pushing for a maximum of one target in each area him, rather than to us here in Parliament. We will have outlined in the Bill, so it seems that we are moving from to rely on him. a whole network of protections to just four. That is a What happens—we know political shifts happen very poor trade for our natural environment. I am sorry to rapidly these days—if a future authoritarian Government say that it is an indication of how the Government finds themselves in power and they want to make sweeping interpret their greater environmental obligations after changes to the level of environmental protection? The we leave the EU and make our way in the world. The Bill affords them power over what the targets should be direction we seem to be heading in is backwards. and who enforces them. I am sure that such a prospect To prevent that backsliding, the Government must makes us all nervous, including the Secretary of State. If include in the Bill a commitment to the non-regression multiple targets are set in each area, with amendments of environmental standards. I expect that everyone across tabled and improvements made, and if links between the House agrees that regression from environmental targets and improvement plans are strengthened, the protections is poor and that standards should not be Bill could mark the beginning of a framework that reneged upon, watered down or discarded. If we were to provides real environmental protection. However, I must let that happen it would have real implications not just highlight this point to Members on both sides of the for UK wildlife, but our own constituents—the water House. With its current powers and levels of discretion, 375 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 376 the Bill could be used for a catastrophic reduction in interest, and I am prepared to swoop in with a speech of protections, leading to poor air quality,polluted waterways, 4 hours 24 minutes, should an increase in fluoridation declining biodiversity, exposure to chemical pollution, be proposed. and a dereliction of our green and pleasant land. It is Aside from the preservation of water quality, I know entirely down to whoever happens to be Secretary of that this Government are committed to dealing with State on any given day to protect them. The Bill gives some of the most pressing issues that my constituents too much power to an already over-powerful Executive, face today. I am pleased with the renewed focus on and must be amended so that Parliament can have infrastructure. In my constituency, we desperately need democratic oversight, and so that stringent environmental the safety issues on the A38 to be addressed. My standards are set. predecessor, Sir Ivan Lawrence, raised that matter in the House some 55 years ago, and it is still a critical issue Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Maiden speech: for my constituents today. As we meet the Government’s I call Kate Griffiths. agenda for increased house building, we must ensure that that is matched with investment in critical routes, 3.39 pm such as the A50 in Uttoxeter. I pledge that in this House Kate Griffiths (Burton) (Con): It is a pleasure to I will do all I can to bring about that investment and follow the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Alex those much-needed improvements. Sobel) and to make my maiden speech in this pertinent We must also deliver for our town centres, which have debate, given the recent extreme weather that we have faced increasing difficulty due to new technology and endured across the country. I will speak about the Bill changing shopping habits. I have very fond memories of and its importance a little later on, but I will first talk the bustling Burton High Street of my childhood. While about the constituency that I love and have the privilege the face of town centres will undoubtedly be different of representing in this place. in this age of the internet, we must do all we can to I have listened with great interest to many of the ensure that they have a thriving future at the heart of maiden speeches in recent weeks, and to the reasons our communities. each new Member has given as to why their area is so My constituents are hard-working, resilient people. important to them and, indeed, our country. However, Throughout our history, we have suffered and overcome there is no doubt that it is my constituency and home adversity. In 1255—I am so sorry, I am going to have to town of Burton that has for generations provided the have a quick drink. real driving force behind this nation’s success—beer. Although my constituency’s history and culture is as Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): Would my rich as the water that infuses the beer we produce, it hon. Friend like me to intervene? cannot be denied that it is brewing that has truly put Burton on the map. It is the sulphate-rich hard water of Kate Griffiths: I thank my right hon. Friend, but no. I the Trent, combined with the industrious spirit of Burton’s do apologise. people, that has led to the town’s setting the standard In 1255 and 1322, Burton was all but destroyed by for high-quality pale ale. That has led brewers worldwide fire, and we suffered catastrophic flooding in 1514, to “Burtonise” their water, in an attempt to mimic our 1771, 1795 and 1852. That collective spirit of resilience, great local tradition. however, forged through overcoming tragedy, has not This proud heritage reverberates through all areas of made the events of recent weeks due to the impact of my constituency, including the sporting one. It has Storms Ciara and Dennis any easier to bear. That is given the mighty Burton Albion football club their why this Bill is so important and why I chose to make nickname “the Brewers”. Here I must declare an interest. my maiden speech in this debate. Our changing climate Before entering this place, I was fortunate enough to work brings with it the ever more present threat of flooding, for the club, although I cannot take all the credit for and although the Government have already provided their hard-earned football league status, which came in billions of pounds of funding to defend against it, with 2009 following a victorious season in the Conference. this Bill we will do more. I have always felt that the name of my constituency is Not only does the Bill set out the most ambitious incomplete, and I sincerely hope that in any forthcoming environmental programme of any country on earth; it boundary reviews, consideration is given to renaming it is another example of the Government’s steadfast Burton and Uttoxeter. Uttoxeter is a beautiful market commitment to delivering for people in my constituency town, and it is the proud home of the world-leading and across the country. During the election, I had construction equipment manufacturer,JCB. The company’s hundreds of conversations with people across Burton yellow diggers are instantly recognisable the world over, and Uttoxeter, but there is one conversation, in particular, and it was at JCB that the Prime Minister famously that has always stayed with me. One resident told me bulldozed through the Brexit wall last December, that politics for her was about trust and faith. She told emphatically signifying his commitment to break the me that I had her vote because she trusted me, my party parliamentary deadlock and foreshadowing his success and the Prime Minister to deliver what she voted for in dismantling the so-called red wall on election day. back in 2016 and to invest in our NHS, our schools and I pay tribute to one of my most admirable predecessors, our infrastructure, and that she had faith in our country Sir Ivan Lawrence, whose notable parliamentary to thrive outside the European Union. achievements include a private Member’s Bill that led to My constituent’s trust was not misplaced. The Prime the creation of the national lottery. He also gave the Minister has already delivered on that central solemn longest parliamentary speech of the 20th century, at promise to get Brexit done. She is right, too, to have 4 hours 23 minutes, on the matter of water fluoridation. faith in our country,as I know that under this Government’s I will watch the Government’s legislative agenda with stewardship it will thrive in the years ahead. It is my job 377 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 378

[Kate Griffiths] made by the proposed Office for Environmental Protection? I wonder whether the intention is to create a Cassandra- and the job of everyone on the Government Benches to esque body so that those in power can wrongly ignore continue rewarding the trust and faith that has been the truth that it speaks. To tackle climate change and placed in us by delivering. I will spend every minute of protect our environment, we need democratic and my time in this House working tirelessly to do so for all independent institutions that have the power to enforce the people I have the honour to represent. action on climate chaos in a meaningful way. 3.47 pm We can either face up to the reality of the climate crisis and transform our institutions, our economy and Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab): I appreciate our infrastructure, or consign our planet and our wildlife the opportunity to speak on such an important issue. It to environmental catastrophe. That is the decision we is right that we legislate to protect the environment, our face.It is a historic opportunity and a historic responsibility. water and the air we breathe. It is also vital that we I am sorry to say that it is an opportunity that the Bill preserve the biodiversity of our countryside and woodlands squanders and a responsibility that it shirks. and conserve our areas of outstanding natural beauty, such as the Peak district in my constituency, for the enjoyment of everyone. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I call Marco Longhi to make his maiden speech. I am pleased that, after pressure on the Government, the Bill now includes a reference to climate change enforcement. If the rising sea levels, fires and floods do 3.51 pm not constitute a threat to our environment, I am not Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con): Let me start by sure what does. The fires in Australia have affected thanking you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to 1.25 billion animals and, according to WWF estimates, present my maiden speech today, and to thank your have harmed 30% of the koala population. There is staff—and, indeed, all staff on the estate—for keeping abundant scientific research to demonstrate that global us safe and looking after us so well and with such heating will result in the extinction of thousands of professionalism. I should like you to convey my more plants and animal species, and the UK is not immune. It profound thanks, if that is possible, to Mr Speaker for is nonsense to say that we are in favour of biodiversity the way in which he has signalled that he will carry out but not lift a finger to stop the carbon emissions that his office as Speaker of the House, in complete contrast have led to the destruction of ecosystems and fragile to his predecessor. The conventions and integrity that ecologies, making the 10% increase in biodiversity almost he is restoring in such an unassuming way are having a impossible to deliver. It is not meaningful to talk about much greater impact in restoring faith in our democracy protecting the environment without also talking about than any commentators may be giving him credit for, how we end the climate catastrophe that is currently which is why I want to do so today. wreaking havoc across the globe. It is the convention to comment on one’s predecessor The only way to secure our environment and defend in a maiden speech. I shall do so, but not for that the diversity of our wildlife in the long term is to halt reason: I will because I want to. I am certain than many rising temperatures and reach zero emissions by the in this place will want to recognise Ian Austin for his 2030s. That means fundamentally reshaping our economy integrity, and for the brave way in which he decided to and infrastructure by handing power to the people with stand up against antisemitism. There is not a person in the greatest interest in stopping climate catastrophe—not my constituency to whom I have spoken who does not the bankers, as we heard earlier, or big businesses, but speak well of Ian, even when they disagreed with his working people. politics. So I want to thank him for his efforts as a local Despite the changes to the Bill, the truth is that it falls MP, and for the example that he has set for many of us, well short of the protections we need to secure our on both sides of the House, in standing up to prejudice natural environment for the years to come. The EFRA and hatred. I suspect that some of my colleagues on this Committee charged with scrutinising the proposals was side of the House—myself included—may wish to thank right to call them a missed opportunity. This was an him for other reasons too. opportunity to enshrine environmental protections in all aspects of our public institutions. Instead, the proposals I say with a degree of both pride and humility that only oblige Ministers to act and only with mealy-mouthed I am the first ever Conservative Member of Parliament “’due regard to” the principles in the Bill. It was an for Dudley North, the first ever Member called Marco, opportunity to make Britain a beacon of environmental and the Member holding a larger majority than any of standards for the whole world to follow. Instead, there my predecessors in this seat. For that, I thank the people is no provision in the Bill to prevent our own standards of Dudley, who, like the people in the rest of the country, from slipping and falling below those of the European decided to tell the House—yet again, at the umpteenth Union; in fact, the environmental principles outlined in time of asking—what they wanted us to do. it represent a significant downgrading of the principles The Dudley North constituency is made up of the behind our existing environmental protections. It was town of Sedgley, the suburban areas of Upper Gornal, an opportunity to create a world-leading, independent Lower Gornal and Gornal Wood, Woodsetton, and institution for environmental auditing. Instead, the other conurbations around Dudley town itself. It has Government are proposing to establish an organisation several attractions of national significance, including with nowhere near the level of independence that is the Black Country Living Museum, Dudley Castle and required to hold Ministers and public bodies to account. Dudley Zoo. At a time when No. 10 can sack a Chancellor for refusing Dudley has been a market town since the 13th century, to fire his staff, are we really to have any confidence that and its fortunes over the centuries have ebbed and the Government will not seek to interfere in the decisions flowed with the economic cycles of the heavy industry 379 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 380 that its coal-rich mines supported. This also means that our plans for a university campus on the edge of Dudley it has suffered much since the decline of the traditional town centre finally being delivered. I am pleased that industries, which is why a focus on skills and future jobs the Prime Minister agrees with me on that. These game- is crucial if the economic prosperity of the area and the changing plans were drawn up before my arrival, and wellbeing of Dudley people are to be secured for the some have been spoken about for many years. Now is coming decades. the time to turn words into action and to deliver for Dudley is also credited with being the birthplace of Dudley. My pledge to all Dudley people is that I will the industrial revolution, with the advent of smelting fight every step of the way to make things happen and iron ore using coal instead of charcoal, which is bring about the change that they want. It is Dudley’s manufactured by burning trees and therefore much turn now. rarer and more costly to obtain. Abraham Darby introduced this revolutionary method, which meant that iron and 3.59 pm steel could be made in much larger quantities and more James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op): It is a efficiently and cheaply. He effectively kick-started the pleasure to follow the maiden speech from the hon. industrial revolution, so Dudley’s heritage and legacy Member for Dudley North (Marco Longhi). Having so are second to none—notwithstanding what other people recently given my own maiden speech, it feels a bit in this House might say! However,I will say that competing cheeky to be congratulating another Member on their with Magna Carta and perhaps alienating a doctor maiden speech, but I enjoyed listening to him talk about might not be my smartest move. Abraham Darby was the warmth of the people he represents, the history of born in Woodsetton in 1678 and is reported to have his area and the challenges it faces. With so many lived at Wren’s Nest, which is now a site of special maiden speeches today, he faced quite a challenge to scientific interest—I had to practise that—and, since compete with the birthplace of the Magna Carta and, 1956, one of only two national nature reserves assigned indeed, the passionate description of her constituency on geology alone because of the variety and abundance given by the hon. Member for Burton (Kate Griffiths). of fossils found on the site. When I gave my maiden speech, I spoke about an However,although the new industrial revolution brought important brewery in my constituency, so I feel some wealth, it also resulted in the area being named the most affinity towards what I value in my constituency and unhealthy place in the country in the mid-19th century, the breweries of Burton. I congratulate everyone on because of the dreadful working and living conditions. their maiden speeches today. That led to the installation of clean water supplies and Since becoming an MP, the Environment Bill is the sewerage systems. Dudley had the highest mortality rate piece of legislation that I have been contacted about by in the country. In the 21st century we are faced with the more of my constituents than any other. The constituents fourth industrial revolution, characterised by a range of who have been in touch recognise the urgency to act and new advancements in the digital and biological worlds, the opportunity that this Bill offers to make a real but with a different impact on human wellbeing. difference. The Government could take decisive action Improving health and wellbeing and seeking to tackle through the Bill to protect the environment. However, mental ill health are some of the areas on which I wish as currently drafted, the Bill misses this vital chance to to focus during my time in this House, for the benefit of act at a crucial moment. everyone at home and in their workplaces. If we tackle The Bill proposes to replace the EU’s comprehensive the issue of poor mental health at its core and in its framework of environmental protections with long-term infancy,we can prevent crisis moments and the devastating targets over which the Secretary of State has nearly consequences that they can have. That it is also why complete discretion to change at any time. Alongside having an environment that we can all enjoy, which that, the new Office for Environmental Protection that supports us in our own wellbeing and that we can leave the Bill establishes is not, as we have heard many times as a positive legacy to our children and grandchildren, today, fully independent from Government, and lacks is so important. Mother Nature has been talking to us the strong enforcement powers it would need for us to for some time, and it is time we did more than simply be certain of its effectiveness. It is hard to disagree with listen. It is time to take action as well, which is why the Greenpeace UK’s assessment that Ministers have just Bill is so welcome. given themselves a licence to fail. Mr Deputy Speaker, if you ever come to Dudley, the We have the opportunity to widen the Bill’s ambition capital of the Black Country,you will be warmly welcomed, and strengthen its approach, and it is vital that we do so because that is the nature of Dudley people. You will to ensure that this chance to set us on the right course also feel a sense of expectation—a feeling that change is for many years to come is not squandered. I urge the about to happen, a feeling of optimism—and this is Government to listen to calls from my constituents and another reason why I am so privileged to represent the many others to strengthen the Bill—to ensure that it town and its people. In the near future, we will be seeing strengthens and certainly does not lower existing levels the demolition of the infamous Cavendish House in the of environmental protection in future laws and policies; town centre to make way for many new homes, the that future Governments are legally compelled to take metro extension and I hope—subject to consent—a very action to meet long-term targets for the recovery of light rail system. nature and the environment; and that the new Office for Like many high streets around the country, Dudley’s Environmental Protection is truly independent and can has suffered much. Nobody has a silver bullet to fix hold the Government and public bodies to account over that, but increasing footfall by attracting more people environmental commitments. feels like part of the solution. If attracting more people Alongside those general principles, my constituents into the town centre is part of the solution, and if the have also contacted me about specific areas of the Bill focus on skills for future jobs is key, I would like to see that need strengthening, such as provisions on deforestation, 381 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 382

[James Murray] On behalf of my constituents who have contacted me, of all those around the world who are affected by oceans and air quality. I urge Ministers to listen to their our actions and of the future generations who will be voices and to those of environmental groups on such impacted by the decisions we take, I urge the Government crucial issues. to seize this chance to show true global leadership on First, my constituents want specific targets to end protecting our environment. deforestation in the production of commodities, including food, that the UK imports. Mass deforestation is Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I call Jane accelerating climate change and is a leading cause of Stevenson to make her maiden speech. wildlife extinction. We must take responsibility for the impact of our actions around the world, yet the Bill 4.5 pm does not currently address the UK’s role in harming Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con): nature overseas. I congratulate all my colleagues who have made such Secondly, my constituents want the Bill to do more to excellent maiden speeches this afternoon. As a proud protect the oceans, including through legally binding Wulfrunian, I am deeply honoured to come to this place targets on plastic pollution and through measures to to represent my home city of Wolverhampton—the city reduce how much plastic is produced and consumed. in the Black Country. We are still waiting for the Government to take the I must begin by paying tribute to another local woman, promised action on that front, and the Bill makes no my predecessor in Wolverhampton North East, Emma firm commitment to prevent the exporting of waste Reynolds. Emma was elected in 2010 and held several which can lead to plastic littering our seas around the shadow ministerial roles. Widely respected as a moderate world. and principled member of her party, she spoke with Thirdly, my constituents want a firm approach on balance and reason. I know her qualities will be greatly tackling poor air quality. It affects everyone, but it has missed on the Labour Benches. been felt acutely in recent years by many people living Wolverhampton North East stretches across the north in Ealing North and across London. Poor air quality of the city between two 20th-century housing developments, stunts the development of children’slungs, which everyone each built on the site of a medieval farm. At Ashmore will agree is a truly awful legacy to leave the next Park, in the east, you can still see the site of a medieval generation. Of the 650 constituencies, in 2018 Ealing moat; and in Pendeford, in the west, a slightly later North had the 41st-worst concentration level of the landmark is a beautiful 17th-century dovecote that gives harmful pollutant PM2.5. Particulate matter affects everyone part of Pendeford its name. and means that people living with heart or circulatory I am sorry that I do not have longer to speak of our conditions are at a higher risk of a heart attack or stroke. rich and long history, but I want to mention one of the It is time for the Government to step up and help my most important battles in British history. In 910 AD, constituents and people across the country. the forces of Mercia and Wessex united to roundly Decisive action can make a difference, as the Mayor defeat a large Danish army. So thorough was the defeat of London Sadiq Khan is showing here in London. The that it was the last time the Danes sent a great invading Mayor has been taking a lead on cleaning up the force to our island. capital’s air, including by introducing the ultra low There are two places in Wolverhampton that lay emission zone. In 2016, air at the Hanger Lane gyratory claim to the location and, therefore, the name of that monitoring station, which is just outside my constituency great battle. My election to this place puts me in a rather in Ealing Central and Acton, exceeded the hourly legal awkward position: one of the places, Tettenhall, is in limit for nitrogen dioxide for a total of 45 hours. Last the ward in Wolverhampton South West that I serve as year, that had fallen to just two hours—a drop of 95%. I a city councillor. The other, Wednesfield, is a village in give that example because it shows that change is possible. my constituency of Wolverhampton North East. I have The Government have an opportunity to make it clear learned quite quickly that politics is a game of numbers, that clean air is a priority. They can give the Mayor and so with sincere apologies to the fine people of Tettenhall— councils, including mine in Ealing, the resources they and one of them is my own mother—I shall now refer need to go further in tackling poor air quality, and they to it as the battle of Wednesfield. [Laughter.] Ah, you can use this Bill to commit to introducing higher standards have met her. I am in so much trouble when I go home. nationwide. As we have already heard, the current legal air quality limits for England are less stringent than The city of Wolverhampton grew over the centuries, the World Health Organisation’s guidelines. This is a first on the wool trade, and then on small industry. once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to adopt World Health Metalwork, Japanning and key and lock-making fuelled Organisation limits and to make a real difference to the our prosperity on the edge of the Black Country. My quality of our air. ancestors, the Mattox family, had a small key-making We know urgent action is needed to respond to our factory in Wednesfield in the 19th century that started climate and environmental emergency. The Environment in a garden shed. Bill provides an opportunity to do so, yet the Government That spirit of entrepreneurship and innovation is appear to be doing all they can to resist solid protections alive today, and I am proud to be in a party that wants and to avoid introducing standards that are equivalent to support more people to start and run their own to, or better than, those in EU regulations. That should businesses. Unemployment in my constituency is too set alarm bells ringing on the Government’s approach high, and I want to see support for start-ups, as well as to post-Brexit regulation generally, and it is an immediate better training, apprenticeships and education opportunities. and urgent concern that means we risk missing the With our central location, excellent transport links, moment to set high environmental standards as we face reasonable property prices and wonderful people, we the coming decade. are an excellent place to come to start or conduct your 383 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 384 business. Our i54 business park is already home to large Member of Parliament. I proudly take my place on firms like Jaguar Land Rover,Moog and Collins Aerospace. these Benches to serve my city,and I assure my constituents We are a welcoming and friendly place, Mr Deputy that Wolverhampton will always be my first priority. Speaker, and you would be very welcome to visit us any time. Queen Victoria was still a princess when she first 4.13 pm visited Wolverhampton. She did describe us as a “large Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): I congratulate the hon. and dirty town,” but she was delighted to be welcomed Member for Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson) with great friendliness and pleasure. on her excellent maiden speech. I was pleased to hear We are proud of both our industrial heritage and our that she is, or was, a local councillor and so, like me, will warm welcome. As with much of the Black Country, appreciate the importance of local democracy and local this industrial heritage has left us with very little green government. In this place, we must ensure that the space, and that space now needs protecting. The northern voices of local communities are being heard and that boundary of my constituency borders leafy South our local government is resourced properly. Staffordshire, but that green belt land is now under I also welcome the fact that one of the first pieces of threat, in order to fulfil housing numbers in Greater major legislation that we are discussing in this new Birmingham and Black Country housing area plan. As Parliament is on the environment, as it is one of the a region, we need to urgently rethink this strategy. Our most urgent issues of our times and has to be a central West Midlands Mayor, Andy Street, has shown that focus of all our future decision making. But it is worth brownfield sites can be successfully made viable for housing. reminding the House that this Bill is necessary only as a A “brownfield first”policy would protect the green spaces result of our leaving the European Union, which was, to the north of my constituency, near Linthouse Lane until now, the best protector of our environmental in Wednesfield, and in Bushbury by the wonderfully standards. Although the Government have claimed that named Cat and Kittens Lane. Brexit will mean enhanced— I and many Wulfrunians care deeply about our environment, and I support the measures in this Bill to Bim Afolami: On her point about the European Union ensure that we have cleaner air, to put the environment being the best protector of our environmental standards, at the centre of policy decisions, and not only to deliver does the hon. Lady not accept that this country’s the clean Brexit most of my constituency voted for but environmental standards and, indeed, our food standards to ensure it is also a green Brexit. This will help my are some of the highest in the world, not just in the constituents live longer, healthier lives and protect our European Union? city for future generations. Wera Hobhouse: I absolutely agree. The European Today I want to pay tribute to all those people in Union has been a team effort to which Britain has made Wolverhampton North East who volunteer, to make a large contribution. It is a shame that we can no longer their environment and their communities better. I have be leaders in the European Union and direct its future. met so many wonderful Wulfrunians who give up their time to help others, whether litter picking around Bushbury, Although the Government have claimed that Brexit going out street watching in Low Hill or Fallings Park, will mean enhanced environmental standards for the volunteering at our much loved New Cross Hospital or UK, the Bill does not really deliver much on those getting involved in their church, gurdwara or community promises. We are facing a climate emergency, a fact that group. Volunteers make our city better, and I want to the Government acknowledge but are less willing to act thank them for their service to Wolverhampton. on. We need to tackle the climate emergency immediately, with legally binding targets included in the Bill. In an environment debate, it seems appropriate to mention Wednesfield in Bloom, a community gardening I am pleased to see that the Office for Environmental project that brings together the whole community—the Protection has had climate changed added to its remit, St Thomas’ church, the Guru Nanak gurdwara, schools but the OEP needs independence and teeth to hold the and local businesses; everyone comes together to plant Government to account. Unless and until it can the most beautiful displays across Wednesfield and independently impose hefty fines, the OEP cannot match Ashmore Park. They have already won several awards the EU as an enforcer of environmental regulation. and will be competing in the national finals of Britain I wish to focus my remarks on part 3 of the Bill, in Bloom this year, and I wish them every success. In an which concerns waste and resources,and on the amendment age when we have an epidemic of loneliness among that I will table in Committee. I will also mention the people of all ages, I can only hope that the example of Government’scommitments on the deposit return scheme. Wolverhampton’svolunteers inspires more people to come Unfortunately, I will probably not get a place on the Bill out and get involved. Committee, so I will depend on cross-party support for I could not let this speech end without mentioning my amendment. I believe it will strengthen the Bill and my great love, not only for the city of Wolverhampton make it better, and I very much hope that the Bill but for the greatest football team on earth—Wolverhampton Committee will consider it. Wanderers. Football runs deep in our veins, and although I welcome the Government’scommitment to establishing our city’s official motto is “Out of darkness cometh a deposit return scheme—a policy that the Lib Dems light”, our unofficial motto is “Wim Wolves, ay we”. I have been pushing for many years. However, there are would love to give credit for this quote to our fantastic several questions about how the scheme will work in manager, Nuno Espirito Santo, but it was actually practice.It is important that the scheme is both independent Rudyard Kipling who said that from Government and not for profit. The Department “the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” should work to ensure that the scheme is as wide as Whenweworktogether,weachievethemost.Ilookforward possible, incorporating cans and all types of plastic and to working with people from all communities, from all glass bottles.I am concerned that as Scotland is introducing over Wolverhampton North East, during my time as a its own deposit return scheme two years earlier, DEFRA’s 385 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 386

[Wera Hobhouse] Conservative Governments have had huge successes in introducing measures such as the charge for single-use scheme for England and Wales might not be compatible. plastic bags, resulting in a 90% decrease in plastic bag It should be. I am looking forward to hearing more usage in the United Kingdom, but there is still much from the Government on the detailed proposals. People work to be done. I encourage the Minister to consider who come from different backgrounds—I was born in banning plastic milk cartons as part of our Conservative Germany, where deposit return schemes have always mission to be the first generation to leave the environment operated and never been stopped—know that it is a in a better state than that in which we inherited it. particular challenge to rebuild the infrastructure needed By introducing a framework for our independent for a proper scheme. Nevertheless, it is the right direction environmental standards after leaving the European of travel and I very much look forward to the debate Union, specifically on areas such as air quality, water, and hope that I can make a contribution. biodiversity, resource efficiency and waste reduction, I shall be tabling an amendment on waste traceability the United Kingdom is exercising its sovereignty and thatwillrequirewastecollectionandmanagementauthorities world-leading ambition. Setting our own laws is a significant to publish the end destination of all municipal waste opportunity not only to maintain high standards, but to products. I am deeply concerned about the transparency exceed them. of waste management in this country. I was a local councillor for three years and the cabinet member for I strongly welcome the fact that the Government the environment, and my responsibilities included bin have set long-term environmental objectives and collections and waste disposal, so I know quite a lot principles. Long-term outlooks are a crucial element in about the subject, and I know the difficulties that councils tackling the effects of climate change. However, more have in making recycling really work and making sure immediate measures are required in the Bill. For example, that people engage in recycling schemes. For that reason, we need positive measures to reduce further single-use it is important that local councils disclose not just where plastics through deposit return schemes and other they send their waste after they have collected it but the community engagement projects, and I warmly welcome end destination, so that nobody can say, “Well, you have those aspects. sold it on to a management company somewhere in the My constituency of West Dorset is a prime example midlands and we do not know where it goes then.” We of excellent environmental stewardship, with its vast would instead know what that company did with the waste stretches of countryside and Jurassic coast—that is and that it did not sell it on to some country abroad, so clear to see. Our land has been nurtured and maintained that it might eventually end up in the oceans. by generations of farmers, and those farmers have We would also know whether we were sending our played a vital role throughout history in taking care of waste to waste incineration facilities. Although people the countryside. They nurture wildlife and habitats, a talk about energy from waste, I remind the House that it duty that should not go unnoticed. Unfortunately,however, is not a net zero solution. Incinerating plastic is no better that vital work often goes unnoticed, and I pay tribute than burning fossil fuels. If we are looking for a net zero to the thousands of farmers for their environmental solution for this country, incineration from waste is not stewardship across the country and for dedicating their it. We need to look at that urgently. My amendment lives to doing so. I am especially keen to seek assurance would make sure that those who diligently recycled and clarification from the Minister that the crucial role could be confident that their waste was recycled and not of farmers is recognised and that they are granted the shipped abroad or burned in incinerators. Incinerators freedom to thrive and continue their vital work. need a certain calorific value in order to burn. For Surprisingly for some, a key concern of my constituents example, burning wet food waste is best done by adding in West Dorset is air quality. Chideock, a small village plastics. It is perfectly possible that waste companies are in my constituency between Bridport and Lyme Regis, burning recycled plastic waste from local authorities. is especially subject to air pollution, as the A35 runs It is crucial to understand that energy from waste through it. Traffic congestion means that the air is plants is not a net zero solution. Burning plastics, as I polluted with the harmful exhaust gases of vehicles. have just said, is no better than burning fossil fuels. The World Health Organisation recommends a maximum Plastic should be recycled where possible, and energy pollution limit of 10 micrograms per cubic metre of air, from waste facilities create a counter-incentive to recycling. but in 2017 West Dorset District Council measured a A small change in the law to require waste to be traced reading of 61.8 micrograms per cubic metre of air. My to its end destination will make the system more transparent constituents in the rural village of Chideock are subject and waste authorities more accountable. In this way, to such high levels of air pollution. The British Lung everyone will know where their waste is going when Foundation has confirmed the damaging effect of high they put it in the recycling bin. We owe it to our residents levels of exhaust pollutant, which must be a much to give them that transparency. higher priority, in my opinion. I hope that the targets Although this Bill brings forward some important set by the Government will recognise the impact of changes to waste and recycling, there is still not enough exhaust pollutants in villages such as Chideock, and ensure focus on waste prevention and how the waste industry the safety of all residents from harmful gases that cause will contribute to a net zero Britain. a direct and immediate health risk. I welcome the environmental direction in which the 4.20 pm Government are heading, but I am keen to encourage ChrisLoder(WestDorset)(Con):Ournaturalenvironment the Minister to be more robust with target setting so is of growing importance and concern, both in the that our important environmental standards will not United Kingdom and around the world, so, it is of great just continue at our normal high standards, but that our importance that we get this Environment Bill right. standards going forward will lead the world. 387 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 388

4.25 pm cost of £20 billion. Air pollution causes heart failure Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): It is a and lung disease, and possibly lower IQ in children. great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for West Unborn babies have PM2.5 microparticles in their blood Dorset (Chris Loder). He focused on air quality and stream. That is whywe want the World Health Organisation that is very much what I want to focus on today. I agree standards mentioned by the hon. Member for West with everything he said about that. I also agree with him Dorset for 10 micrograms per cubic metre by 2030, with that we should leave the environment in a better condition a staging post of 12 by 2025, in the Bill and enforced than we found it, but I fear that, in its current form, the through fines. Otherwise, it simply will not happen. Environment Bill will not deliver that mandate, which I We know what the manufacturers will do, with their share. It certainly will not deliver the bigger mandate of weasel words; we know about the Volkswagen scandal. delivering zero carbon for 2050. As the Minister will The latest scandal is the fact that diesel filters themselves know, the latest projections show that we will reach the store up particulates, crush them into more harmful 1.5° increase by 2030, not 2040, so we really do need to microparticulates and spew them out every 300 miles, up our game. The Bill is possibly capable of delivering causing much worse pollution and public health problems. environmental protection, as opposed to climate change That is not actually measured in the emissions testing mitigation, regarding air, chemicals, plastics and our regime, because the manufacturers have been behind oceans. the door, lobbying away. We cannot trust them, and we The problem with the Bill, at least as it is drafted at want to bring forward the year when new diesel and fossil the moment, is that it does not have the teeth to deliver fuel cars become illegal to 2030. As has been mentioned, enforceable, known targets to ensure that we deliver we need a fiscal strategy to deliver that. those higher standards. As we leave the EU, the real risk The other change I really want to push for is the is that because we do not have dynamic alignment, we inclusion of indoor air pollution in the Bill. No one in will fall behind the escalating standards in the EU and their right mind would believe that we could have an possibly even behind the current standards. On air Environment Bill that is just about the outdoor environment, quality, the Minister will know that we consistently fail when 90% of our time and 95% of our children’s time is to meet the EU air quality standards and that is why the spent indoors. What is happening to those children Government have been taken to court on several occasions indoors? I recommend that Members read report on by ClientEarth and rightly fined. We need a system that indoor air quality published on 28 January by the Royal can duplicate that, but that system does not exist. College of Paediatrics and Child Health, which shows that there is an abundance of harmful chemicals indoors, Chris Grayling: It baffles me that Opposition Members including in products used for cleaning, construction think that this country is incapable of setting high materials and volatile organic compounds.These chemicals standards itself without having an international body come in the form of formaldehydes, cosmetics, candles, to do it for us. If we all, collectively, across the House, cooking products and all sorts of stuff, and they have a believe in high environmental standards, why cannot we cocktail impact, causing inflammatory respiratory problems. look after our own interests, rather than have somebody We are all locked in small flats with double glazing, else do it for us? which makes the effect worse, and that is also the case in schools and hospitals. The Bill should cover indoor Geraint Davies: That was very much an own goal environments—minimally schools and hospitals—to protect by the former Transport Minister, who cancelled the our children, but it simply does not. electrification of the line to Swansea and knows that Fire retardants are a specific problem. I understand the UK has consistently failed to meet standards. The that the average house in Britain now contains 45 kg of empirical evidence shows that we have not and cannot fire retardants, including in sofa and mattress foams. do it with this Government, because we have been We have much more of these materials than the EU or dragged into court, kicking and screaming, for failing the US. Why? Because we require a flame test, rather those standards. That is why we have the Bill, which than just a smoulder test. When fires happen, people die waters down the standards,does not provide an independent from the toxicity of fumes given off by the fire retardants. agency and does not provide an opportunity for fines to This toxicity is worse than in concentration camps in be paid for failure to deliver World Health Organisation the second world war because of the combination of standards. In my view, such fines should be paid to the hydrogen cyanide—the chemical that was used in health service to treat people for the harm and to local concentration camps, in Zyklon B—and carbon monoxide, authorities to actually reduce air pollution. which makes it 35 times worse. When there is a fire, Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): My those so-called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons burn hon. Friend is making a very good speech, but does he off, firefighters cannot see through the smoke, and agree that what is really worrying is the lack of ambition people basically choke and die within a few breaths. It is from the Government? We can only save the planet by outrageous that that should be allowed. New Zealand international co-operation if we stop their friends who has removed those chemicals, and has shown that doing invest in companies that are exploiting the rainforest. so does not result in more deaths from fires. We need to do that in a co-ordinated way across the Through this Bill, we need to continue with the planet, but the Bill lacks imagination and energy. regulation concerning the registration, evaluation, authorisation and restriction of chemicals, or REACH. Geraint Davies: Precisely. COP26 is an opportunity In a nutshell, REACH means that manufacturers that for the United Kingdom to show that we will act produce a chemical are required to show that that collectively, take leadership and bring the world together, chemical is safe. In the United States, the Environmental but the example we are setting is one where we have Protection Agency has to prove that a manufacturer’s 62,000 people dying prematurely from air pollution at a chemical is hazardous, which is why asbestos is used in 389 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 390

[Geraint Davies] Member for Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson) because I stood for election in Wolverhampton North brake pads in the United States. Once we go into a trade East in 2001, and she had a lot more success than I did. deal, the big problem with this Bill is that it leaves the As a fellow Black Country girl and the granddaughter door open for Donald Trump and his mates to water of a metal room worker, it was really heartening to hear down our environmental standards—we have all heard her passion for the Black Country and its future. I wish about chlorinated chicken and hormone-injected beef, her every success in this place. I should say that I also but this also applies to chemicals—so that they can sell remember her mother, who was a councillor at the time all sorts of stuff that will be a risk to our public health. when I stood for election. Weneed to tighten up this legislation, have a precautionary This Bill takes this country’sapproach to the environment principle and ensure that we deliver on REACH. and the protection of our environment to a whole new Members will know that plastics cause the deaths of level. It makes legal principles that some of us have 1 million seabirds and 100,000 marine mammals a year, supported for many, many years, including the “polluter and that there will be as much plastic as fish in the sea pays” principle. Its legally binding targets to improve by 2050. We need a fiscal strategy to address that; we the environment, and annual reports through environmental need to tax plastics. The last Chancellor but one said improvement plans, mean that we are set on a positive that there was going to be a plastics tax. Where is it? Are track for the future.The Office for Environmental Protection the Government calling for it? Let’s have it. is a new industry watchdog. On trade, we need to watch out for investor-state The specific issues that are dealt with in the Bill have dispute settlements. Companies will come along and been raised with me by my constituents for many years. agree a trade system, and if we start passing new I am sure that my local Chineham Girl Guides and environmental laws, they will sue us under the investor-state Brownies will be very pleased to see that the deposit dispute settlement system. It is important that we have return scheme is back on the table. Many of my other our legislation in place at this point—before we agree residents who have lobbied me on plastic bag charging, those trade deals—rather than doing so after the trade and extending it, will be pleased to see measures on deals, otherwise we will face all sorts of sanctions. I that. The many hundreds of people who have, over the agree with the Chair of the DEFRA Committee on the years, written to me about the importance of sustainable integrated approach that needs to be taken with the three forms of packaging will be delighted to see the measures Bills to combat flooding through land use management in this Bill. So I give a massive thanks to the Minister and so on. Particularly as I am from Swansea, I am for all the work that she, in particular, has done on these concerned about tourism in the economy, and want to measures. ensure that the blue flag beach registration is kept up so I would like to focus on just two issues within the Bill, that people have confidence that when they go bathing one of which has not been raised so far. It follows on everything is clean. from the points made by the hon. Member for Barnsley Our environment is not just a namby-pamby thing Central (Dan Jarvis) with regard to trees. Schedule 15 is about saying, “Let’s look after the environment.” It is about combating illegal deforestation. It is all well and obviously for our children and our children’s children, good to go around planting trees, as many of us do, and but it is also for our economy. We want to be able to encouraging people in our constituencies to do that, but boast, “We set the standards and the markets follow. if others come along and fell those trees unlawfully and People want to come here because we have a glorious nothing is done about it, or things are done but the enhanced environment.” In the current state of play, actions that are undertaken are ineffective, then this has this Bill will not deliver the goods. I very much hope to be taken seriously. I really commend the Government that Ministers will be open to the amendments that my for picking up on this issue, because in my constituency right hon. Friends and I will want to put in to make it we experienced one of the largest unlawful tree fellings better and fit for purpose. that the Forestry Commission had seen in many, many years when more than 500 trees were felled in Dixon 4.35 pm Road just outside Sherfield Park. Despite the Forestry Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): It is a great Commission taking great measures to insist on a restocking pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Swansea West order and that being enforced through the courts, the (Geraint Davies). I might have a slightly more optimistic practical fact is that few of those 500 trees have been view of this place’s ability to press for the highest reinstated. standards, but he makes a very important point about I therefore welcome the measures in the Bill that will indoor air quality. I am sure that the Minister will have allow courts to make restocking orders after an individual listened to that particularly carefully. I have a particular has been convicted for failing to comply with an interest in the issue of carbon monoxide that the hon. enforcement order. I even more heartily welcome the fact Gentleman talked about. that the fine for felling without a licence is increased This is an important debate to participate in in its significantly to an unlimited level 5 fine. Restocking orders own right, but it is all the more pleasurable because we are really important, and they should not be flouted in have had so many maiden speeches as well. I congratulate the way that they have been. I hope that these measures my hon. Friends the Members for Aylesbury (Rob are as effective as the Government have set out. Butler), for Truro and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory), An application for planning consent on a piece of for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer), for Meriden land that has been subject to unlawful tree felling cannot (Saqib Bhatti), for Dudley North (Marco Longhi) and take into account the fact that there has been a failure for Burton (Kate Griffiths). I hope I can apologise to to comply with a restocking order. I hope the Minister my hon. Friend for trying to intervene on her, but I will look at local authorities being able to take unlawful thought it might have been a timely intervention. I have tree felling and a lack of compliance into account when to give special congratulations to my hon. Friend the considering applications. 391 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 392

The second issue that I want to raise, as other Members on our environment. It is not my intention to repeat that, have, is the legally binding target for fine particulate but this is an issue that many of my constituents have matter, which I welcome wholeheartedly.Fine particulate contacted me about. Weshould not underestimate the need matter has the most significant impact on human health, for the issue to be addressed and I hope the Government and the Government’s approach has been commended will do that. Accelerating climate change is the leading by the WHO as an example for the rest of the world to driver of wildlife extinction due to habitat loss. follow.The importance of action by national Government In my constituency of Blaydon, trees play a hugely is clear, but local government needs to act as well if we important part in our local natural environment. Many are to achieve the improvements in air quality that are of my constituents are very concerned about making so important. One in five of us will be diagnosed with a sure that we are not only looking after our existing tree respiratory illness or condition at some point in our life, cover,but increasing our tree cover to deliver environmental and the Government are acting on that. benefits. I am pleased to say that, at the turn of the year, Will the Government look closely at the proposals put I took part in a community tree planting event in my forward by various organisations on further strengthening constituency. It was good to see so many people—so those air pollution targets? Could the Minister confirm many families—out and joining the plantation. I know that health experts will play a significant role in setting that Gateshead Council has plans to increase the tree cover new air quality targets? in our constituency and in the Gateshead Council area. It is a great pleasure to take part in this debate. These The new Bill does include a legal duty to consult air pollution measures are such an important part of before felling street trees and stronger powers for the the Bill and are to be commended, along with the other Forestry Commission, which is welcome. Again, however, measures. I wish the Bill well at every stage in this House the issue of resources raises its head: there must be and the other place. resources to carry out that responsibility. We do not want loopholes that will leave valued trees vulnerable as 4.42 pm a result of proposed tree felling. As has been said, it is important that we increase tree cover to ensure that we Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab): It was just last year that can take advantage of the environmental gain, but it is Parliament declared a climate emergency—a significant also important that we consider a tree strategy. This Bill move that recognises the importance of this issue for does not move forward on the call for a national tree our future and the future of our planet. We are in a strategy for England to be required by law. I hope the climate and ecological emergency but, sadly, the Bill Government will consider that again. does not do nearly enough to help. It replaces a flawed but comprehensive European Union environmental I want to touch briefly on plastic pollution. All hon. framework with non-binding long-term targets that can Members will know how, when they visit a school or see be changed by the Secretary of State at any time, at his the Brownies locally, the children are very keen on or her discretion. We need concrete, legally binding ensuring that we clean up our oceans and do not have targets if the Bill is to have the impact that it must have plastic pollution. People will be disappointed to see that for our future. the Bill does not go further in this area. One of the key things we need to look at is getting an all-in deposit I want to talk about biodiversity gain. The idea is return scheme that deals with recycling at least some of welcome, but the level of gain set out in the Bill must be the plastic in our environment. much more ambitious. We do not need a levelling down of biodiversity gain. Some authorities are already going The last thing I want to talk about is the Office for beyond this, or seeking to do so, within the current frame- Environmental Protection. I echo calls from both sides work. We need a much higher limit. Some organisations of the House about ensuring that this role has true have suggested that a 20% net gain would be more in independence from Government and has real powers to line with need and that this should be open to review, in be able to tackle the issues. It is an absolutely vital role case future evidence demonstrates the need for an increased in ensuring that we deal effectively with protecting and level. It should be a minimum, not a cap. improving our environment. Again, I hope the Government will think very hard about ensuring that its powers are One issue that has been drawn to my attention by the strengthened. Royal Society for the Protection of Birds and others, and on which I had the chance to ask a question last I ask Ministers to look at all these issues and at the week, is implementation of the biodiversity gain proposals. amendments that will undoubtedly be put forward, to Concerns about the proposals include new burdens on look to strengthen some of these measures and to councils, further pressures on the capacity of local ensure that local authorities and other organisations authority planning departments and a lack of specialist have the resources to implement effectively the powers ecological expertise to deliver the plans. If we are to we are giving them. have biodiversity gain, as we should, all new burdens on local authorities must be properly assessed and fully 4.49 pm funded. Without that funding or resource, this is just a Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con): It is a pleasure piece of paper that cannot be enforced. It is vital in this to follow the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist). I do area that we ensure that local authorities have the not agree with what she said about the need for the resources they need—in staff and in finance—to make European Union to set our regulations, but I do agree sure that this is properly implemented, as well as looking with a lot of what she said about deforestation and at the capacity and skills needed. biodiversity, which indicates commonality across the My hon. Friends the Members for Bristol East (Kerry House on the need to tackle these issues effectively. McCarthy) and for Ealing North (James Murray), neither I am not a glass-half-empty person, and I think that of whom is in their place at the moment, have spoken we in this country have made good progress in recent very fully and eloquently about the impact of deforestation years. Our rivers are massively cleaner than they were, 393 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 394

[Chris Grayling] society needs to act. I welcome the gradual steps now being taken by some developers to open up the access although discharges still damage our wildlife. We are routes through new developments that species such as planting trees around the country—I have a fantastic hedgehogs need. Without such provision, those species project in my constituency, the Centenary Woodland, will continue to decline. which is being planted by the Woodland Trust—but not We need a smarter approach to managing our impact enough is done to ensure that new housing developments on the environment, but we live in a democratic society, are built in a sustainable way alongside protected habitats, and people also have other expectations. If we demand and that housing does not destroy wildlife in our country. that people give up major aspects of their lives in the We are doing much more than we previously did to name of the environment, or because of environmental tackle unnecessary waste, but the hon. Lady is right to pressures, they simply will not do it. People expect us to say that we still have too much plastic pollution, and we improve their roads, and ensure that they can buy or do not sufficiently reuse potentially valuable materials. rent a home and take a holiday, and we must work out As a nation we have made good progress in cutting the best way to deliver our environmental objectives, carbon emissions, but we still have an impact around alongside meeting the rest of those goals. The new the world. There is deforestation, and one thing I would Office for Environmental Protection must use its powers like, which consumers can deliver,is a significant reduction wisely and effectively. We must do everything we can. If in the amount of palm oil that this country uses. We there is a solution we must grasp it, but if no solution know the environmental implications of too many palm avoids damaging other parts of our society, we must oil plantations around the world, and this country think carefully about how we approach those issues. should seek to set an example on that issue. One example of where we need a smarter approach is My remarks will focus on two things. First I will in preparing for net zero. I hear, week by week and day speak about biodiversity, but I will also stress the need by day, people and companies saying that they will be for a smart approach towards these matters. Our net zero by a particular date. That is absolutely to be constituents still have priorities. They may think that desired, but we know that some of the mechanisms to this issue is a priority, but it is not the only one, and we get them there, particularly offsetting schemes, are not must approach these matters in a way that delivers a always what they are made out to be. We will therefore cleaner,better environment, and enables us to meet people’s need a much more carefully thought through, higher other priorities. quality approach to nature recovery here and around It cannot be right that our generation has seen such a the world. It is not just about planting trees, although loss of biodiversity here and around the world, and we hon. Members of all parties have talked about the must seek to address that. Many of us will remember importance of tree planting. I support the planting of the dawn chorus from when we were children. There trees. We can play a big part internationally, through were birds all over the place, but today there are far our development aid budget, to encourage and support fewer. I hold the role of parliamentary species champion other countries to reforest areas that have been allowed for the hedgehog, and to my mind, the dramatic decline to become arid and deserted. We can do more in this in hedgehog numbers shames this country. Not just in country, too. We have projects already, but there is more this country but around the world too many species are we can do here. It is not just about tree planting, of in danger because of man’s behaviour. One thing that I course. Wetland areas can absorb carbon and create hope will result from the dreadful outbreak of coronavirus more habitats for birds. We need a mixed approach to in China is a proper crackdown in Asia on the illegal biodiversity. wildlife trade, which does so much damage to so many Offsetting projects have to be genuine and beneficial. species, including endangered species. It is important that in this country the Office for I welcome measures in the Bill that require biodiversity Environmental Protection ensures that projects within gain in new developments. That is an important step the UK are genuine in their impact. Internationally, I forward, and when meeting our undoubted housing want us to refocus part of our aid budget to support needs, we must not simply build over wildlife habitats genuine projects around the world that restore biodiversity without seeking to make provision for the species that and habitats to create the opportunity to bring back are affected. It is right to have a proper nature recovery wildlife populations and capture carbon at the same network, and to give local authorities and other time. As one of the great donors to the developing organisations the duty and power to restore and create world, we can play a real leadership role in doing that. better natural habitats. That is the only way to reverse Restoring our habitats and our natural environment the decline in species such as the hedgehog, or those is, to me, an urgent priority. Legislation can only take us birds that have disappeared from so many parts of so far. The whole of our society needs to work on the country. It is not the only solution, but it will be delivering it, but the Bill can help us to take a major step important. in the right direction. We must also introduce measures on water quality in our rivers. We have made progress, but not enough, and 4.56 pm the Bill includes some provisions on that, particularly Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab): We are facing regarding extraction. Over-extraction to meet human one of the greatest tests in our history: extreme weather, and agricultural needs has a serious impact on biodiversity droughts, wildfires, flooding yet again devastating in our river valleys, which the Bill rightly seeks to communities across our country, rising sea levels, polluted address. My right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke rivers and toxic air. (Mrs Miller) was right to speak about the importance of measures in the Bill to tackle illegal deforestation, which Preet Kaur Gill (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab/Co-op): are welcome and overdue. These issues are not just for Air pollution across the west midlands affects some the Government or regulatory bodies, because our whole 2.8 million people and our young people are most at 395 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 396 risk of dangerous levels of nitrogen dioxide. Will my than tackling types of packaging, and the use and hon. Friend join me in congratulating the hard work of reuse of plastic packaging. That continues to place a the Labour council in Birmingham, who are introducing disproportionate burden of waste collection and costs a clean air zone to try to tackle air pollution, and in on local authorities. commending my right hon. Friend the Member for The coalition of waste industry experts and local Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne), the Labour authorities that I set up around my Bill all believe that candidate for Mayor of Birmingham, who wants the Bill before us does not adequately deal with the Birmingham to become the first carbon-neutral region reform of waste as it should. We desperately need in the country? radical reform of the system across the country.Producers need to take responsibility, from the packaging they Anna McMorrin: I congratulate my hon. Friend’s produce to the clean-up at the end of the life cycle. This local council and my right hon. Friend the Member for is the Government’s opportunity to be ambitious—to Birmingham, Hodge Hill on the fantastic work they are show the UK to be a world leader. It would be a great doing. I am really proud that my own local authority, shame if they did not take this opportunity. Such reform Cardiff Council, is doing groundbreaking work through is not in the Bill as it stands. a clean air plan to tackle air pollution levels. Cardiff Council has just been awarded £21 million from the The current system has failed to get to grips with Labour Welsh Government to invest in practical measures, export waste. I am not confident that the Bill in any way such as retrofitting, taxi migration and transport initiatives. toughens our stance on the restrictions on exporting This is really groundbreaking stuff, which is absolutely waste. Even the most well intentioned of producers who needed. ship plastic waste overseas to be recycled and treated Climate change is no longer a theory. It is a reality correctly, lose control and ultimately lose sight of whether beating at our door. The recent floods across our country that waste was appropriately disposed of. The Secretary have shown it is not just something that happens to of State, in his opening remarks, said that he had other people in far-flung places. It is happening right toughened up that area, but I cannot see that in the Bill: here. We have a moral, social and ethical obligation to we have gone from “prohibit” and “restrict” to providing the generations who will follow us to meet the environmental for regulation. I ask the Secretary of State and the Minister: challenges of today and leave behind a healthier, more what does that mean? What does that regulation look sustainable environment for tomorrow. This long awaited like? How does it adequately meet the needs? It does Environment Bill is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to not, as I see it. strengthen our environmental standards at home,modernise waste and recycling strategies, and show global leadership Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Will the hon. Lady be at a time when it is so sorely needed. At COP26, we can supporting or opposing the Bill in the Lobby this evening? show the world what we are doing. Anna McMorrin: I am absolutely opposed to a lot of There are some welcome measures in the Bill, but I things in the Bill, because it does not speak to what our am afraid it fails to show the promised gold standard industry—our producers—need. So I will be thinking very stipulated by the Environment Secretary’s predecessor. carefully and taking that decision at the end of the debate. I am not suggesting that any of this is easy. It is not easy to change the way that we do things to meet the climate We must build on our recycling industry here in the challenge, but I am suggesting that it is absolutely UK. The answer to that problem cannot simply be that imperative that we take urgent, radical action to build a the Government will tackle the problem by causing sustainable environment and economy for the long term, more materials to be sent to landfill or the incinerator. to safeguard our planet for future generations—offering Although end-of-life solutions are important, the ultimate also opportunities for people, our communities and our objective must be to decrease the volume of single-use businesses. That need not be an either/or scenario. I do plastics, improve design and recyclability and see large-scale not know for how many years I have been making investment and infrastructure capacity here in the UK, speeches about either the environment or the economy. and not ship things off overseas. We must address the It need not be either/or; it can be both. core reason why so much plastic is shipped overseas: Today I want to focus on one of the Bill’s key 356 million tonnes of plastic waste in 2018 alone. elements: waste and resource efficiency and phasing out In England, councils, restricted financially, have been unsustainable packaging. The UK has been using and less able to invest in recycling facilities, so much of the wasting resources at unsustainable levels; we are far growth in the waste disposal sector has been achieved behind the recycling rates of many of our European by exporting waste. In many cases, a failed austerity neighbours. There is a rising imperative for Government, agenda has created that growing dependence on export business and consumers to think and act radically when markets.I am fortunate that in Wales the Welsh Government it comes to plastics and packaging, waste and recycling. have been ambitious and introduced those hard recycling In the previous Parliament, I presented my Packaging targets and invested in recycling, but for this to work we (Extended Producer Responsibility) Bill. UK Government will need fundamental reform across the whole UK. I figures had been shown to underestimate drastically want this UK Government to take innovative steps to how much plastic packaging waste Britain generates. A make radical change. study by Eunomia, the waste experts, estimates that just Finally, I want to touch briefly on the Office for 31% of waste is currently recycled. Where does that Environmental Protection. Where is its independence in waste go? Much is exported and shipped overseas, and holding Governments to account and what consequences dumped into our precious oceans, washed up on the will there be when the Government fail to meet targets? pristine shores of the Arctic and Antarctic. While the It will be a toothless regulator with fewer powers than Bill sets targets on waste reduction and resource efficiency, the European Commission. How can we hope to meet there is more of a focus on end-of-life solutions, rather the challenge of the climate emergency with such a 397 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 398

[Anna McMorrin] The policy of Baroness Young in the Somerset levels was to put a limpet mine on every pumping station, and weak regulator? The Bill lacks ambition. It lacks legally when it came to categories, she wanted policy option 6 binding targets and fails at every level. If we want for the levels, which was to increase flooding. The result people to take Government and Parliament seriously, was an environmental catastrophe, costing, according we need to wake up and to toughen up the Bill. to some estimates, more than £100 million. The water died—the water went stagnant—and all aquatic life 5.5 pm disappeared. I went down and talked to some experts Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con): It is a on the levels who really understood the local environment, great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cardiff and they said that they had never seen so many wild North (Anna McMorrin). I endorse much of what she birds disappear until that year. said about the horror that plastic presents to the world What we want is local management. North Shropshire and the nonsense of exporting it. She might be interested looks as it does thanks to generations of private farmers to know that one of my sad failures as Secretary of and private landlords taking huge pride in what they State was failing to persuade our coalition partners to do. What we are doing now on public goods in the introduce a price incentive for a genuinely biodegradable Agriculture Bill—and there are more measures in this plastic bag. Our charge, which came in shortly after I Bill—is giving people the chance to improve their local left but which I legislated for, has reduced the number of environment. I should like the Minister to look at the bags from 8 billion to 1.1 billion, according to the benefits of nature improvement areas, built around House of Commons Library, but the ideal is to develop catchments, where we could pool the resources from the a biodegradable plastic that does not cause this horror landowners’ payments for public goods, from public in the seas and all the terrible issues she raised. grants and from other moneys, possibly local, for the We have heard many very good maiden speeches and purpose of long-term targets. We could concentrate on I think there are more to come, so I will speak briefly. I local species which need building up again. That would see all this enthusiasm in the Chamber, all this youth, all deliver real environmental outcomes. these excited people wanting to take action as Members Creating at national level a quango with 60 to 120 busy- of Parliament and benefit their constituents, yet a pillar bodies who are, for some reason, independent of this of the Bill, which I strongly support, is the creation of a House is not the way. We have had enough: we have had quango. When I was Secretary of State, my four key 40 years of the European Union telling us what to do, priorities were: to grow the rural economy; improve the and doing it badly. Following directives designed for environment, not just protect it—which is built into the polluted European rivers, not our own—that is not the Bill; and save the country from animal disease and plant way. The answer is to write laws in this House, and disease. The Bill is the basis on which to deliver that. It regulations in this House, and set targets in this House, is not all in there—it is partly an enabling Bill—but I and then control them in this House. That is what we strongly support its clearly stated aims. were elected to do. Creating a parody of the European The only aspect I would really query is that we do not Commission—which is what the OEP is—is emphatically need another quango. We already have Natural England not the answer. and the Environment Agency. My right hon. Friend the I am looking at the clock, but I will very briefly Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), when he mention a couple of other issues. I mentioned catchment took the Bill through in its early incarnation, said that areas earlier. I should like the Minister to look at the staff of the OEP would only number 60 to 120. That the issue of abstraction, because we have to balance the dwarfs what we already have in Natural England and need to grow food and provide adequate water with the the Environment Agency. What we want are strong need to keep food production going. Food production Ministers. I am delighted by the appointment of my is vital, and it is still the primary function of the hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca countryside. I should also like the Minister to look at Pow) as a Minister and of my right hon. Friend the the balance between the precautionary principle and Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), the innovation principle. In the European Union there who was my junior Minister, as Secretary of State. They is an insane hostility towards modern technologies, are knowledgeable, competent Ministers bringing forward which has caused real environmental damage. What we policies that will benefit our farming and marine industries should be doing is growing more food on less land, and and the environment, both terrestrial and marine. freeing up land for recreation and planting. We have What we want is a strong mechanism by which Members heard a lot of talk about trees, all of which I entirely can question Ministers, ensure that whatever they decide endorse, especially in view of the floods. We should be is put into practice and pull them up if it is not. What growing more trees in the upper parts of the catchment we do not need is another quango. A quango is not the areas. That is the balance: we will only do that with answer. I have direct experience of that. We had the modern technologies. most terrible floods in Somerset when I was at DEFRA. Lastly, I want to touch on the subject of endangered Why was that? It was because of a very misguided policy. species, as did my right hon. Friend the Member for Why was it misguided? It was because the Environment Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling). I am very proud to Agency was led by a model quangocrat. Baroness Young be wearing the tie of the Red Squirrel Survival Trust. of Old Scone had spent seven years as chief executive of We now have a wonderful opportunity to legislate for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, she had the species in this country which really are endangered. been vice-chairman of the BBC for two years, and she We do not have a problem with crested newts—although was chief executive of the Environment Agency for they have caused terrible problems for our building eight years. I am sure she would score many points industry—but we do have a problem with red squirrels among all those speakers on the Opposition Benches—of and certain crayfish, and those are what we should course, she was also a Labour Whip. be targeting. 399 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 400

The Bill presents us with a great opportunity, and I to be perpetually at odds with each other throughout support it, but will the Minister please make sure that it legislation, although both are expected to occur with is Members of Parliament in the driving seat? increased frequency. So while I very much welcome a more regional approach, I would like to see a rebalancing of both those risks, alongside the investment in 5.13 pm infrastructure that would give whole regions the flexibility Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow to move water with ease and to manage the risk, making such a passionate speech from the right hon. Member us more resilient to too much water as well as not for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson). enough. It will probably not surprise Members to learn that I In relation to the role of reservoirs, I will be looking shall be focusing my comments on part 5 of the Bill, to table amendments to part 5 of the Bill that would largely because extreme weather is starting to pose an set out the transfer of powers to the Environment almost existential crisis to us in parts of Calderdale. Agency and the framework in which such arrangements The water levels that we saw in 2015, and again earlier between the EA and water companies, in consultation this month, presented an immediate threat to life, and a with local authorities and communities, would work more long-term challenge to the viability of communities together to put localised plans in place for managing alongside the river and the canal. down pre-designated reservoir levels during periods of An ongoing challenge for us in flood-affected heightened risk. communities throughout the north, in particular, is that As we know, this is just one piece of the enormous the legislation and regulation that underpin the role of jigsaw that needs to come together if we are to bring the water companies are heavily weighted towards mitigating ongoing risks that we face in Calderdale under control. drought risk. The climate change adaptation work reflected Given the vast scale of the moorland in the upper in both the 25-year environment plan and the Bill, while catchment, natural flood management schemes will be recognising flood risk, does not provide the same level instrumental if we are to hold and slow water before it of seriousness in legislation relating to the risks of both reaches homes and businesses down the valley. Last flooding and drought, and I should like to see a rebalancing summer, I visited Dove Stone nature reserve in High of those challenges. Peak with the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, In July last year I presented a ten-minute rule Bill, the where a comprehensive peatland restoration project is Reservoirs (Flood Risk) Bill, which—in a nutshell—sought under way. We were planting sphagnum moss, which to give the Environment Agency additional powers to not only helps to manage flood risk by locking in water require water companies to manage reservoirs to mitigate but promotes biodiversity, prevents wildfires and stores flood risk. The Bill followed years of conversations carbon. between the Environment Agency, Yorkshire Water and Slow the Flow in Calderdale promotes natural flood Calderdale Council about the role of the six Yorkshire management, and with a group of volunteers with an Water reservoirs in the upper catchment in the Calder impressive collective skillset, it has been working with the Valley. In the winter of 2017-18, Yorkshire Water and National Trust, the Environment Agency and Calderdale the Environment Agency started a trial to manage the Council since 2016 to use the natural environment to Hebden Water reservoirs down to 90% of their usual build leaky dams, stuff gullies and promote sustainable top storage level, with the aim of assessing the potential drainage and natural attenuation schemes. This work of utilising the reservoirs as a more long-term flood disrupts the flow of water as it makes its way down the risk management option. Maintaining the reservoirs at valley, forcing it to spread out and slow down, and holds 90% instead of the usual percentage created an extra as much water up in the crags for as long as possible. 10% capacity to hold more water in the upper catchment The really impressive thing about Slow the Flow is its during periods of heavy rainfall. Although the reservoirs determination to measure its outcomes, its desire to were placed under nothing like the pressure during the take an evidence-based approach to what it does and to trial period that they experienced during Boxing day crunch the numbers to demonstrate the real value of its 2015’s Storm Eva or more recently Storms Ciara and work. Its work on attenuation ponds, which are designed Dennis, the report was able to conclude: to hold water in the event of heavy rainfall, suggests “The lower reservoir levels did provide a significant impact on that if the 43 attenuation ponds identified as possible peak flows in Hebden Water for largest events observed during sites by Calderdale Council were delivered at a cost of this period”. £600,000 for 29,000 metres cubed of water storage—bear The report was clear that the scheme had a positive with me—this would equate to £21 per cubic metre of impact on flood mitigation, and that a managed and storage, compared with the £1,270 per cubic metre cost collaborative approach would be complementary to of the storage delivered by the hard flood defences in ongoing flood protection work in the area. This approach Mytholmroyd. The truth is that we need both, but we is not just happening in Calderdale; similar conversations can see how cost-effective natural flood management is. are happening right across the country, including at It is 61 times more cost-effective per cubic metre of Thirlmere reservoir in Cumbria, at reservoirs in the water storage. upper Don Valley and at Watergrove reservoir in Rochdale. I therefore very much welcome the local nature recovery The Environment Bill recognises that climate change strategy in the Bill, building on the notion of natural and extreme weather will place additional pressures on capital and acknowledging the very real, tangible benefits water availability,and although it legislates for a requirement for people and communities if we can store and slow on water companies to work regionally to publish joint water in the upper catchment. However, I would like proposals to mitigate drought risk, it does not seem to to see the Bill include hard and ambitious targets for place the same expectations on water companies to recovering moorland and peatlands in particular, and mitigate flood risk. Drought risk and flood risk seem not only for flood alleviation purposes; nature-based 401 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 402

[Holly Lynch] purchased food is consumed. We must not forget that the disposal of food waste is a problem because it creates solutions will play a critical role in mitigating climate gases. There is a case for suggesting that the harmful change. Peatland currently covers 12% of the UK’s gases given off by food waste cause more environmental total land and contains more carbon than the forests of harm than an inert plastic product bobbing about in the the UK, France and Germany combined. However, it is ocean. I am not suggesting that that is desirable, but we currently in poor condition. If we look after and manage need to consider the relative harms. our peatlands, we can continue to lock in that carbon If we accept that there is a role for packaging, we and absorb more, but if degradation continues we risk need to consider the steps to minimise its impact. The not only missing that opportunity but releasing the Bill encourages a reduction in the amount of packaging carbon already stored. and refers to recycling. There has always been an incentive I will briefly turn to the issue of Cobra meetings, for manufacturers to use the least amount of material because I have been at the deep end of flood crises in to do the job that the packaging is being asked to do, Calderdale twice during my time in office. While we and the industry has undergone a process called cannot legislate for Cobra meetings as part of this lightweighting over many years. For example, starting process, I have just seen the Secretary of State’s comments in 2007, Coca-Cola worked with WRAP to reduce the to the “Ministers Reflect” series last year. When asked weight of the 500 ml bottle from 26 grams to 24 grams, whether Cobra meetings make a difference, he replied: saving 8% of raw material and reducing the need for “Yes, they do, because Cobra is designed to try give everybody 1,400 tonnes of PET a year. a kind of proverbial kick up the backside and get things moving.” A large part of the Bill is about improving recycling Can I ask for that approach once again in relation to the in several ways. First, it extends producer responsibilities damage that we have sustained in Calderdale? by increasing obligations on packaging manufacturers. The industry accepts that it needs to do more and has 5.20 pm transformed its approach since the days when I worked Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): It is a pleasure to in the sector, when there was little regard for what follow the hon. Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch), happened once the product had been used. who told us about the situation that her constituents are Consistency in local authority domestic waste collection facing. It has also been a pleasure to listen to the is also important. People are confused by what goes maiden speeches, and I observe that today must be where, and variation leads to confusion. That needs to “west midlands day”, because I have heard many excellent be addressed, and I support the intention to simplify speeches from new colleagues from the region. I welcome labelling on packaging so that what can and cannot be the Bill and its protections, which will improve air recycled, and which bin to put things in, becomes and water quality, restore habitats, create the Office clearer to consumers. There also needs to be consistency for Environmental Protection, and introduce measures in the use of terms. Why say that something is recyclable to deal with the impact of plastic waste, on which I if the facilities do not exist to recycle it? will focus. Part 3 addresses deposit return schemes. There are As somebody who spent 30 years in the packaging details to consider, but almost all producers in the industry and as chair of the all-party parliamentary industry accept DRS. Coca-Cola has an ambition to group for the packaging manufacturing industry,I recognise ensure that all its packaging is recovered so that more is public concerns about litter and where plastic waste recycled and none ends up as waste or litter, and in early ends up. I heard about that on the doorstep during the 2017 it confirmed its support for a well-designed DRS. general election, because litter in our communities has an impact on local environments and the plastic waste A DRS must consider a number of items. It must finding its way into the oceans has an impact on the have clear objectives, and it must increase the quality global environment. Both are harmful, but both represent and quantity of the material collected. Quality is about the waste of a valuable resource. I have heard many making sure that there is less contamination, and I Members today talk about the harm and damage caused disagree with my right hon. Friend the Member for by packaging ending up in the wrong place, but I want North Shropshire (Mr Paterson)—biodegradable plastic to take a moment to consider the role of packaging, is not helpful, because it is a contaminant in the waste because we sometimes forget what it is for. stream. Packaging enables the safe transfer of goods, particularly Secondly, on increasing quantity, there is no point of food items, ensuring that they are received by the incurring the costs of a DRS—reverse vending machines customer in peak condition. The second important role cost up to £15,000 each—if it does not increase the of packaging is not only to provide customers with amount of material recycled. There is real concern convenience when picking up their daily food needs, but about displacement and the fact that people who currently to give them information about what the product contains. put bottles in their domestic household waste stream That is of particular importance for food, given concerns will take them to the supermarket to get their deposit about food allergies, nutritional content and sell-by back, which will not increase the amount that is recycled. dates, but instructions for use are important in respect We need to consider the number of return points and of other items. However, that information is absent whether there will be one at all sales points. Will cafés when people fill their own containers, for which there is and restaurants be included? Will the scheme provide a trend in retail. an exemption for small retailers that lack the space to The final role of packaging is to prevent food waste. install a reverse vending machine? There are serious Recent innovations, such as resealable packs for cheese questions for the Minister about who will pay for it. and meat, are important in enabling households to get Given the lower volumes from smaller retailers, how the most out of their food budgets and ensuring that will we make certain that it is cost-neutral for them? 403 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 404

The Minister needs to sort out what happens to unredeemed more trees; walking and cycling more; reducing plastic; deposits. Not every bottle deposited will be redeemed, disposing of mattresses correctly; preventing the stripping so where will those bottles go? Who will manage it? of our oceans; preventing habitats from being under Finally, we need to ensure consistency with Scotland. threat; removing all diesel cars; preventing car idling; I did not hear the hon. Member for Edinburgh North having fewer cars on the roads; replacing cars with and Leith (Deidre Brock) say that it would make much electric cars, at an affordable cost; providing firefighters more sense and be better for consumers, retailers and with the knowledge and means to put out electrical beverage producers if we had a UK-wide system. Britvic, fires; recycling; reducing flights; and reducing flight which produces soft drinks in my constituency, says that paths over concentrated areas. The list goes on and on. it will otherwise need two separate stock units, one for We need clean air for everyone; it is our responsibility to Scotland and one for England and Wales, which does protect our citizens, society, country and planet. not make sense. The children wrote to me about the death of nine-year-old Ella Kissi-Debrah, whose death has been linked to air 5.27 pm pollution. They rightly demand more from me, and, on Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab): It is a pleasure to their behalf, I demand more from the Government. follow the hon. Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey) and Given that they have again chosen not to commit to to hear him speaking so passionately about plastics and World Health Organisation recommended guidelines so comprehensively about recycling. on air pollution in this Bill, what do they have to say to my constituents, to worried parents and to children I will speak again about air pollution. According to fearing for their future? Let me end with this: the planet the Environmental Defence Fund, air pollution is a takes care of us and it is our responsibility to take care significant burden on the health of UK residents.Long-term of it. exposure to air pollution causes between 28,000 and 36,000 deaths a year, not to mention the cost to the 5.32 pm public purse, the NHS and social care. Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): It is a Tanya Steele of the World Wide Fund for Nature said: pleasure to speak in this debate and to follow some “We are the first generation to know we are destroying our excellent maiden speeches. The themes of this debate planet and the last one that can do anything about it.” are clear, with a general acceptance that this is a good The Government need to take those words seriously for Bill. Some like it a bit more than others, but in general it all parts of our country. I am a London MP, and is seen as a good Bill. Some Opposition Members seem London has the highest concentration of air pollution. to want the EU or certain other non-Westminster bodies The Mayor of London is committed to a green new deal to have more of a say, whereas some Conservative and will spend to make that happen. He has shown that, Members want them to have less of a say, but I think the with sufficient powers and resources, London can meet balance has been struck reasonably well by the Government the World Health Organisation guidelines for air pollution and I commend Ministers for that. This is a landmark by 2030. The Government must change their mind and piece of legislation, and not just for this country, as we commit to the WHO guidelines in the Bill. They must see if we compare it with what is in place in other spend on that, and they will be judged on it in their countries. It is important for us in this House to look post-Brexit Budget next month. sometimes to see what other countries are doing. What The Government fall short in other critical areas. we are doing here is admired, not just in this country, The responsibility for planning is vague, with limited but outside it. We should commend the Government for parliamentary oversight. There is inadequate recognition being so forthright. That does not mean we cannot of the role that all public bodies must play in reducing improve the Bill and improve what we do, but let us call air pollution. Lewisham Council declared a climate a spade a spade and say where we have done a good emergency in 2019 and proposed a target to be carbon job—this Bill is a good Bill. neutral by 2030. The cost of delivering that is £1.6 billion. The OEP has rightly attracted a lot of attention Taking action will create many opportunities in the because it is one of the most significant things established area to improve health, create jobs, and provide other by the Bill. We will find out in the coming weeks, environmental benefits and significant social benefits, months and years how the OEP develops and interacts but if that is to be done the Government need to with this House, DEFRA Ministers and devolved provide local authorities with the resources they need to Administrations, and how that all works. However, it take action. Otherwise, this is only a fantasy, not a strikes me that we have almost set up a sort of environmental reality. A failure to do that will cost lives and expose our National Audit Office. That is how the OEP could end society to a range of unknown costs. We need to value up developing—[Interruption.] I see the Minister nodding people’s lives—we need to value everybody’s life—and on the Bench, so I hope I am right about that and that deal seriously with our climate crisis. There is a clear link she will address it in her remarks. As a former member between action on climate crises and air quality, waste, of the Public Accounts Committee, I know that, if there recycling, biodiversity and protecting our oceans. is anything like the professionalism that we see in the I have recently received letters from pupils at the National Audit Office, we will be very well served. brilliant Brindishe Manor School in my constituency. We all need to be a bit more realistic. We need to This time, there were more than 40 letters about the wake up because the Bill is actually more significant toxic levels of air pollution and other significant climate than we realise. The enabling powers in the Bill give us crisis issues that have come to my attention. I have the foundation to start to deal with the huge changes young children, as do many other MPs and staff here. that are coming across our economy, society, Government We do not want our children to be affected by toxic and Parliament as a result of the action taken to combat chemicals or to suffer. There is a long journey of recovery climate change. Earlier in the debate, I intervened on for us as a nation that involves composting; planting the shadow Secretary of State to talk about the target of 405 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 406

[Bim Afolami] historic chalk streams in my constituency; the Bill allows us to deal with abstraction in a smarter way. It is a good net zero by 2050. Yes, some people want it to be net zero Bill, but let us make sure that this is the beginning, not by 2040 or 2030, and I understand that, but until we can the end, of the process. get a handle on what we need to do to get there by 2050—which may seem like a long way away, but it is 5.39 pm only 30 years, and in policy terms that is not a huge amount of time—we need to get our arms around this David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): When we consider subject. We need to realise the number of levers we have the context in which this debate is taking place, it is to pull to get there by 2050. The Bill will allow us to important to remember that, in the 1980s, Britain was do that. known as the dirty man of Europe for its air pollution Let me give a couple of examples. We all know that and for its contaminated land and water. It is largely we cannot solve climate change in this country alone. It because of 45 years of European Union membership, is an international effort. To accompany this Bill, the which concluded at the end of last month, that, more Agriculture Bill and the Fisheries Bill—a whole framework often than not, Ministers had their minds focused on of how to look at the environment—the Government the issue—whether that was to make sure that they did need, in the run-up to COP26, to set out an ambitious not end up in European courts, or to make sure that international strategy that includes not only spending Britain was not subject to fines. I guess that we come to from our aid budget, as the former Secretary of State, the debate today thinking about why it is we have this my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire issue of divergence with the Environment Bill. To be (Mr Paterson), mentioned, but diplomacy and high-level frank, this is not a Government whom I trust very well. Government commitment around the world. Frankly, if It is a Government who said that Parliament would not we cannot convince other countries to take the sort of be prorogued—it was prorogued. It is a Government action that we are taking, none of these problems will who said that there would not be an election—there was get anywhere near to being solved. an election. So, forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker, when I struggle with this notion that we put all these Another word I wish to mention is incentives. Let us powers into the hands of the UK and that, as a result of not forget the power of incentives and, indeed, subsidies. divergence, Britain will have higher rather than lower The Bill gives us the framework within which we can standards when it comes to the environment. remember the positive impact that incentives can have. Look at what we have done on wind and solar power We know that that is the case because, when he was over the past 10 or 15 years; there will be other areas in on “The Andrew Marr Show”, the Foreign Secretary which we can use incentives. Let us use the Bill as a spoke about the need for divergence. We know from springboard, in the run-up to COP26, so that we can leaked documents in the Financial Times and on the use more incentives and subsidies in the right areas to BBC that there is a desire on the part of the Government make the technological changes that we need and help to see divergence in order to get free trade agreements our economy. The hon. Member for Cardiff North over the line. That is something that is very much in the (Anna McMorrin) talked about the economy of the public domain. environment; the economy needs to flourish in order for the environment to flourish—they are intertwined—and Bim Afolami: I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving using incentives in the right way can help us to do that. way. It is very generous of him. On the point about Another word I wish to mention is honesty: a lot of whether he trusts the Government on divergence and this is going to cost this country a lot of money. Let us how we will adapt to these environmental challenges, is be straight about that. It will cost public sector money that not his party’spolicy in relation to independence—that, and private sector money, and not all of that money will by becoming independent, it will give the Scottish people be in this country. We are going to need international the ability to do things differently and therefore, he inward investment in the technology, in the ways we do hopes, better? Surely he can recognise the fact that, by things and in research and development, so that we can having these powers on the environment, it gives us the develop the technology, whether it be carbon capture ability as a country to do things in a better way. and storage, battery technology or whatever, so that we have a chance of achieving the target. We all need to be David Linden: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman a lot more honest with ourselves and, indeed, our for his question. The only part that he missed out in his constituents that this is going to cost a lot of money. Let argument is that the Scottish National party’s proposition us now start to have the bigger conversation about how for independence is to be back in the European Union, we pay for it. I suspect that those on the Government where there are higher levels of environmental standards. Benches may want to do things differently from those That is the precise reason why I did not want to leave on the Opposition Benches, but we have to agree that the European Union and why I want Scotland to be an we have to do it. Let us have that bigger conversation; independent state within it. the Bill gives us a framework and basis on which to I want to speak about the need to improve the Bill. do that. The Government, of course, have a whopping majority. I wish to conclude with two local issues that illustrate I respect and understand that, and I accept the result of a wider point that has already come out in the debate. the election in December. None the less, although they The first is Luton airport, which is next to my constituency. have a large majority in this place, they do not have a Many of my constituents are concerned about the air monopoly on wisdom, so there is a requirement for us pollution impacts of an airport that is so near to a rural to work across the House and seek consensus. area; the Bill gives us the ability to look at air quality The hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim and hopefully to impose binding targets in a localised way. Afolami) talked about the need for us to consider the The second issue is chalk streams. We have many unique issue of the Office of Environmental Protection. Having 407 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 408 sat through the debate, it is clear to me that that has I make my final point on electric cars because I had a been quite a contentious issue. The right hon. Member dinner last night with the automotive sector. It strikes for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson) was protesting me that the Government are taking a purist view on about the idea of having extra quangos. He made great hybrid models and pure electric, and that is something play in talking about Natural England, but it is my that they must revisit. There is clearly a lack of support understanding that Natural England’s budget has been for R and D in that industry, and we know when we cut by 50% and its staff numbers have gone from 2,500 speak to constituents that a degree of consumer confidence to 1,500. It is all well and good to talk about these is required and that is not helped by decisions such as quangos, but it is important to put on the record that those on charging grants. that quango has been subjected to huge cuts by the I have spoken about the need to improve the Bill. It British Government. will not be opposed tonight and will go into Public Bill When improving the Bill, there is a need to look at Committee, but I reflect on the point that if the UK the proposed timescales for the Bill, such as the 2037 Government are seriously saying that they want the Bill target for enforcement. That is simply not good enough. to make our environment-related regulations even better, UNICEF, the British Heart Foundation and Cancer one way of doing that is to work across the House, Research are all calling for legally binding commitments whether on environmental standards for nappies or to meet WHO guideline limits for fine particulate matter many other things. If they do that, we will take them by 2030 at the latest. seriously. If they do not, it will reaffirm my view that the Bill is about watering down standards for a free One issue that I wish to raise in terms of improving trade agreement, and I am sure that is not a position the Bill relates to the Nappies (Environmental Standards) that the Minister wants to take. Bill that I introduced in the previous Parliament. That Bill came about partly as a result of a fine factory in my 5.47 pm constituency owned by Magnus Smyth in Queenslie, which manufactures environmentally friendly, reusable Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con): It is a nappies. When Magnus first came to me about this pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow East issue, it was because there is not a level playing field. (David Linden) and his comments on nappies—an issue There are disposable nappy companies out there that I know plenty about—as well as numerous other speeches talk about eco-friendly nappies that still end up in from excellent contributors today. landfill. We know that, when they end up in landfill, I welcome the Bill and the significant focus that the they can take 300 years to break down. We know that Government are placing on our environment. Recent 33 billion nappies per year go to landfill and that they flooding, including in St Asaph in my constituency, generate 7 million tonnes of waste. We also know that, highlights the fact that the provisions of the Climate on average, one child, until potty training at the age of Change Act 2008 are more important than ever. The two and a half, will generate 550 kg of CO2 equivalents. Bill will help to underpin some of the changes we need In many respects, the hon. Member for Hitchin and to fulfil its net zero target as well as to achieve much Harpenden is right: we do need to have honest conversations more. about changes in consumer behaviour. The measures in As we move away from oversight by the EU, we need my Bill were not about telling people that they had to a new domestic framework for environmental governance use reusable nappies—that would be hypocrisy on my and, as has been heard, the Bill will set up a new Office own part; we use a combination of both. But we need to for Environmental Protection not only to provide advice, look at some of the measures in that Bill, which included but to monitor, scrutinise and enforce environmental promoting reusable nappies schemes such as the one law across the UK. We have an opportunity to lead the in Hackney in north London and making sure that world on environmental matters, and I welcome the fact we tackle the misinformation peddled by some of the that the Bill makes provision in a number of specific companies. I would be grateful if I could pick up with areas. I would like to focus today on two of those areas: the Minister that idea of trying to incorporate some air quality and waste reduction. of that Bill in an amendment to this Bill to make sure First, up to 36,000 deaths in the UK are linked to air that we are taking action on nappies. I am taking the pollution each year, which is known, above all, to Government at their word that they want to have higher contribute to cardiovascular and respiratory disease. standards as a result of leaving the European Union, so Much attention is focused on fine particulate matter—solid I am sure they will have no difficulty considering those and liquid particles from various sources of 2.5 microns amendments, which I would certainly be happy to table or less, which can penetrate deep into lung passageways on Report, if I do not manage to meet up with a Minister, and enter the bloodstream. It is important to recognise or in Committee. that, although the very worst levels of air pollution are On having honest conversations and what the found in our major cities, air pollution affects all parts Government can do, the first point is that, when schemes of the country. Recently, I carried a British Heart are proposed, whether a workplace parking levy or Foundation particulate monitor around my constituency three-weekly bin collections, we as politicians need to as part of a wider study being conducted by the University take those arguments seriously. It is all well and good of Edinburgh. Daily exposure to fine particulate matter for us to play party politics from time to time, but if we was relatively low at 11 to 43 micrograms of matter per are to address the future of the environment, we need to cubic metre, but for brief periods in the vicinity of main have grown-up decisions. Some parties in the House roads, I recorded levels greater than 10 times the current would do well to reflect on that, particularly in relation EU limits we subscribe to, and more than 20 times the to a workplace parking levy, which has caused huge World Health Organisation recommended levels. These amounts of consternation in the Scottish Parliament, figures are concerning, and I am pleased that the Bill much of which is faux outrage. contains a commitment to a new legally binding target 409 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 410

[Dr James Davies] Many are pleased to see the proposals relating to a deposit return scheme in England, Wales and Northern for levels of fine particulate matter. I encourage Ministers Ireland, and I am glad that the programme has the to go further and consider whether a specific figure support of the Food and Drink Federation. A deposit should be included in legislation at this point, based return scheme can help to increase reuse and recycling, on WHO recommendations of an annual mean level of and tackle litter, but great thought needs to go into its 10 micrograms per cubic metre. set-up. For the sake of both consumers and producers, such a scheme needs to operate—or at least be compatible David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) —on a UK-wide basis. We need to be certain that it (Con): I support my hon. Friend’s point. The legal makes environmental and practical sense to collect certain enforceability of these limits is a vital consideration for materials via a deposit return scheme as opposed to the House. I was deputy leader of a local authority that kerbside recycling schemes, and to bear in mind the took the last Labour Government to judicial review to ongoing economic viability of these local authority try to force them to comply with EU air quality limits recycling schemes, which are partly funded by the collection from which they sought and achieved a derogation, of valuable materials such as aluminium. meaning that my constituents continue to be subject to The Government may want to consider the impact of the emissions from Heathrow, which already far exceed such a scheme on small business owners and in particular those limits. That demonstrated to me the weakness of shopkeepers. Many convenience stores will not have the the enforcement. As the new Office for Environmental space to store bottles or install reverse vending machines, Protection comes forward, I urge Minister to take very and it is a real concern of the industry that customers seriously the concerns outlined by my hon. Friend and will change their shopping habits towards larger stores which I support. Our residents want us rigorously to as the deposit return scheme is introduced, as they have ensure that the limits are enforced at a local level. done in Germany. I congratulate the Government on bringing forward Dr Davies: That is quite right, and—in addition to this Bill, welcome the provisions within it and look average annual exposure—daily maximum exposure limits forward to seeing it progress. are also important. Let me turn to waste reduction. The mantra of “reduce, Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I am reuse, recycle” remains as relevant as ever. Many local afraid that I have to reduce the time limit to six minutes. authorities have effective recycling initiatives in place. Denbighshire County Council in my constituency offers 5.54 pm popular co-mingled and food waste collections. In Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab): Denbighshire,the capture rate of dry co-mingled recyclables Since before the EU referendum in 2016, my constituents is estimated at a very impressive 85% to 90%. Those have been raising concerns that Brexit would mean a recyclables go on to be separated at a modern and watering down of the most important protections we efficient site in Deeside. When looking to make new have derived as a consequence of our membership of provisions, we should not lose sight of such successes, the EU. Again and again those fears were dismissed. We but equally we need to consider whether we can reduce were told there was nothing to fear, accused of scare- the amount of waste we are producing, and, while our mongering, and told to be quiet. Yet at the first test drive to reduce single-use plastics is ongoing, what our before them, the Government have failed. They have approach is to energy recovery through incineration. In failed to reassure my constituents at all—failed to make particular, we should not generally be shipping plastic a commitment to keep pace with EU standards and to waste abroad, and certainly not without a clear idea as avoid slipping back. The Government could easily have to how it will be managed appropriately. I am pleased put a commitment to non-regression into this Bill. that the Bill makes reference to the regulation of such There is no reason not to do so. This is not about shipments. whether, in any hypothetical scenario, the Government Producer responsibility is a key element of the Bill. I cannot go further and faster than the EU; it is about welcome the UK-wide provisions that encourage businesses being certain that we will not slip backwards. This is a to pay the full net cost of managing their products at fundamental breach of trust and of the commitments end of life. This can help to drive up the use of sustainable that were made both during the referendum campaign and more easily reusable and recyclable packaging, and at every stage subsequently by those who argued and improve labelling on recyclable content. In doing to leave. so, however, we should consider the approach to small Air pollution is one of the issues of greatest concern businesses and the need to avoid a disproportionate to my constituents. We have in Dulwich and West impact on them. It is also important to be clear about Norwood areas of extremely poor air quality. My the timescale for the introduction of such a charge, as constituents have watched with dismay as the Tories larger companies are likely to have the resources to have been taken to court three times over illegal levels of develop more environmentally friendly products, whereas air pollution and, instead of reacting with the concern small and medium-sized enterprises might not have the and urgency that such a legal defeat would demand, same flexibility. have chosen to spend public funds unsuccessfully appealing I endorse the proposal to facilitate a charge in England, against the court decisions—funds that could have been Wales and Northern Ireland for single-use plastic items spent on developing the comprehensive air quality strategy issued in connection with goods and services—for example, that this country so badly needs. That strategy is still takeaways—following the clear success of the carrier missing from this Bill. Air pollution is a public health bag charge, but we need to ensure that reasonable emergency. Toxic air affects every organ of the body alternatives are widely available. and contributes to as many as 40,000 premature deaths 411 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 412 a year.In this context, it is inexcusable that the Government to strengthening many of the provisions; and to giving will not commit in this Bill to meet legally binding teeth to enforcement. The emergency we face demands WHO targets for particulate matter by 2030. nothing less. On plastic pollution, again this Bill contains a woeful 6 pm lack of ambition and detail. Julie Marson (Hertford and Stortford) (Con): It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I congratulate all my Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab): My hon. Friend hon. Friends on their excellent maiden speeches. I made speaks eloquently about the very serious challenge that my maiden speech on Monday, partly so that I could this country faces on air quality. Does she agree that make a contribution on such an important issue. Like this is a matter not just for London boroughs but for my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton North almost every urban area and some rural communities, East (Jane Stevenson), I quoted Rudyard Kipling in my and that it is one of the most significant threats to maiden speech, and I think his words bear repeating, public health that is emerging in the 21st century? because he says it so much better than I ever could. He wrote: Helen Hayes: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. “Our England is a garden, and such gardens are not made It is a fundamental flaw of the approach that this By singing: ‘Oh, how beautiful,’ and sitting in the shade”. Government have taken over the past five years that Of course, that does not just apply to England—but the they have again and again pushed responsibility for air point is that we cannot just sit back. We have to work to quality down to local authorities, forgetting that the preserve the things that we cherish, and I can think of circumstances are different in many areas of the country few more important things to cherish than our environment. and that it is not within the gift of local authorities to address many sources of air pollution. The acceleration of human impact on the environment and subsequent growth in public demand to act make The role of plastic pollution in the ecological crisis is the ambitions of the Environment Bill essential. Habitat profound and devastating. So much single-use plastic is erosion, species loss and the disappearance of wildlife completely unnecessary. The Government could take are problems for today, not tomorrow. The Government action to begin the elimination of it now, yet this Bill have rightly been ambitious in the Bill, and it should introduces no bans. I want to draw attention particularly become a key driving force in our 25-year environment to the role of single-use sachets common across the plan. Some 41% of species in the UK have declined in catering and cosmetics industries. Globally, 855 billion the past 50 years. Like my right hon. Friend the Member sachets are thrown away every year—enough to wrap for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), I remember the the entire surface of the globe in plastic. Replacement dawn chorus. House sparrow numbers have declined materials are available for most sachet packaging that by 60% since the 1970s. render the use of plastics in sachets completely unnecessary. I would like to make special mention of chalk streams. So I ask the Government to amend the Bill to include Some of our most beautiful rivers are chalk streams. provisions under the banner, “Sack the Sachet”, to They have been described as England’s rainforests because eliminate this harmful and unnecessary form of plastic of their importance to our landscape and ecosystems. pollution. With their pure clear water, they are ideal for wildlife, Finally,I want to address the related issues of biodiversity allowing many species to thrive and breed in their water, gain and nature recovery. In relation to biodiversity on their banks and in their environment. Most of the gain, there are key weaknesses and omissions in this world’s chalk streams are in England, and some of the Bill. Biodiversity gains should be protected in perpetuity. best are in my constituency of Hertford and Stortford. National infrastructure should not be exempt from it, The Rivers Lea, Ash, Mimram, Beane and Stort are and the provisions should cover the private as well as threatened by excessive abstraction, particularly since the public sector. I ask the Minister to look again at the they face the effects of new developments with tens of proposals for biodiversity gain to ensure that they are thousands of houses. I welcome the abstraction licensing comprehensive and genuinely deliver the net improvement reforms, but I agree with my hon. Friend the Member that we need to see. for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker) that we must take As parliamentary species champion for the common stringent measures to protect the rivers that serve us. pipistrelle bat, I have similar concerns about the proposals Mandating a requirement for biodiversity net gain in in the Bill for nature recovery strategies. Nature recovery the planning system is another extremely important strategies have the capacity to play an important role in step in the challenge to reverse environmental decline restoring habitats and enabling species recovery, but for future generations, while building homes and infra- they will do that only if they are deliverable as well as structure for them. descriptive. That means the Government resourcing Weneed to bring communities with us on this journey— local councils to prepare and implement nature recovery communities such as the great farming community in strategies. Will the Minister confirm that new burdens Hertford and Stortford. I ask the Government to ensure funding will be allocated to local authorities, to enable that we have a system under which welcome covenants nature recovery strategies to be meaningful for the are introduced with flexibility and clarity, so that farmers long term? and others do not sign away land without truly The Bill provides an opportunity to demonstrate that understanding the often irreversible implications for the Government are serious about the climate emergency them and future generations. and ecological crisis. As currently drafted, it does not Finally, I would like to highlight the impact that do so, and there are critical weaknesses that, if left engaged communities can have at a local level. The unaddressed, will prove to be fundamental flaws. I ask River Lea Catchment Partnership and the Herts and the Government to commit today to ensuring that the Middlesex Wildlife Trust are delivering great results, Bill cannot result in our regressing from EU standards; highlighting the importance of our local chalk streams 413 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 414

[Julie Marson] Road Traffic Reduction (National Targets) Act 1998 and amend it to require the setting of targets for road and bringing back water voles to the rivers for the first traffic reduction? That could make a big contribution to time this millennium. Some 140 volunteers were out in a modal shift, and to improving air quality and indeed Hertford last weekend planting a hornbeam hedge, carbon emissions. which will draw in more wildlife to a recreation ground and contribute to our carbon reduction process. Yet Fleur Anderson: I absolutely agree with cycling another group were installing mink-proof nesting boxes campaigners across the country who are asking for this. for kingfishers along the River Stort. I would like to I know this Bill has an annual reporting mechanism on commend all those groups and others like them. They air quality, but I would like it to include this so that our demonstrate the power of engaged communities and, roads become safer and to make it easier to store our along with the ambition and scope of the Bill, they are bikes as well—two things that are absolutely essential to at the forefront of ensuring that we hand over a healthy, increasing cycling in the country. biodiverse world to our children and grandchildren. The second area is Heathrow airport. Tomorrow the 6.5 pm Court of Appeal is due to rule on a legal challenge to plans to build a third runway at Heathrow airport. The Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab): I am pleased to speak expansion of Heathrow is fundamentally at odds with in this very important debate, and I congratulate everyone the aims of this Bill. The two are completely incompatible, who has made their maiden speech. and expansion cannot go ahead. An expanded Heathrow After years of Government inaction on the environment will increase the UK’s carbon emissions by between 8 and of facing an increasing climate emergency, the eyes megatonnes and 9 megatonnes of CO2 per year, with of the nation—not only young people, but especially much of it being dumped on green spaces such as young people—are on this debate and on us today,asking: Putney Heath in my constituency. It will dwarf a huge is this going to go far enough, is this going to go fast number of other carbon reduction areas that we might enough, and is this what Brexit was really all about? I consider and that might be introduced by councils do not think the Bill does any of those things, and I will across this country. outline a few of the areas I think my constituents in Heathrow expansion will worsen air pollution levels Putney are very concerned about, but which are also of in Putney. The Government have accepted that it would real impact for people not only across the country but have a “significant negative” effect on air quality, and the world. they have provided no evidence to show how Heathrow The first area is air pollution. New figures from Public can both expand and comply with legal limits at the Health England have revealed that the risk of dying same time. It will also result in jobs being drawn away from long-term exposure to London’s toxic air has risen from other regions by 2031. According to analysis for the third year running. King’s College research by the New Economics Foundation of the Department shows that, by the age of 10, children in London have a for Transport’s own data, jobs would be drawn away missing lung capacity the size of an egg for each lung. from regions—for example, 2,360 jobs would be drawn That will not grow back: it is permanent damage. It away from Bristol, 1,600 from Solihull, and 1,300 from especially affects the poorer people of London, who often Manchester. This is not just a London issue and live on the most affected roads. problem. Heathrow expansion will result in an additional Putney High Street in my constituency is one of the 260,000 flights per year, which is not compatible with most polluted streets in London, and I think we would the climate crisis we face. I therefore implore the Minister find that many more were polluted if there were more to intervene and reverse the Government’s decision to air monitors. Green buses have made a huge difference allow the expansion to proceed, and to use the Bill to to Putney High Street and to reducing air pollution, legislate against all airport expansions that cannot clearly thanks to support from the Mayor of London and the demonstrate that environmental targets will be met. Assembly, but more must be done. I am delighted that the Mayor is committed to meeting World Health My third point is that the Bill must strengthen, rather Organisation targets for London by 2030. than dilute, the European Union environmental framework that it replaces. The EU possesses one of the most There are many ways in which this Bill fails to be comprehensive and effective environmental legal frame- ambitious enough on air pollution. It should include a works in existence. Currently, 80% of our environmental legally binding commitment to meet World Health laws come from the European Union, and those laws Organisation guideline levels for fine particulate matter have brought many benefits, such as a 94% drop in pollution by 2030 at the very latest. Why have the sulphur dioxide emissions by 2011. We were losing Government chosen not to commit to WHO recommended 15% of our protected sites a year, but thanks to EU guidelines in this Bill? They should strengthen the Office regulation that is now down to 1%. More than 90% of for Environmental Protection, making it independent UK beaches are now considered clean enough to bathe and robust, and granting it the ability to levy fines and off. My constituents in Putney are concerned that the to make binding recommendations. It needs to have teeth, Bill will water down the protections that the EU has otherwise it will not be the effective body we need it to given us, and I have been inundated with emails about be, and we will not go far enough fast enough. that. The Bill must include a straightforward and substantive The Bill should include more of a modal shift towards commitment to the non-regression of environmental law. cycling and walking, which is absolutely essential to cleaning up our air. My fourth point is that the Bill does not go far enough to protect our oceans. Right now, 93% of fish Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Does populations are overfished, and only 1% are properly my hon. Friend agree with Cycling UK, which is calling protected. Next month is a huge opportunity to take for an amendment to the Bill that would bring back the action at the Global Ocean Treaty negotiations, and I 415 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 416 implore a senior Minister to attend those negotiations social impact of its actions.What farm reliant on abstraction and set ambitious targets—I would like to know whether licences could afford to invest under such ongoing that is being planned. threat? What bank would lend on such a risk? Communities in Putney experience some of the most I encourage the Secretary of State to look again at acute environmental problems facing the UK. They offering periods of certainty associated with the grant suffer from some of the highest levels of air pollution in of abstraction licences and requiring any decision to the country, and they will be some of the biggest losers revoke or amend them to have proper regard to all following an expanded Heathrow. They cannot afford relevant factors, including socioeconomic impacts, during to have environmental standards go any lower. For the decision-making process. Tohave regard to all relevant that reason, I believe that the Bill fails them, and I circumstances when taking a decision is surely a basic implore the Secretary of State to do better. This long- principle for sound decision making. awaited Bill is just not good enough—it is not good Thirdly, I welcome the introduction of the concept of enough to say that it is okay. It will not tackle the conservation covenants, but, to my reading, the current climate emergency. It must include targets and more drafting of clause 102 leaves open the risk that a landowner resourcing for local councils, and it must go further could enter into a legally binding agreement that will and faster on air pollution and carbon reduction. Only apply to land in perpetuity without meaning to do so. then will it be worthy of the label “world leading” on There is no requirement for a qualifying agreement expressly environmental action. to state that a legally binding conservation covenant is being created that may be binding in perpetuity—only 6.12 pm that the document “appears” to show such an intent. If Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con): I am delighted the agreement is silent on its term, it will be held to that the Government have introduced this Bill which, apply forever.I encourage the Secretary of State to consider together with the Agriculture Bill and the Fisheries Bill, making the identification of a conservation covenant shows that we are serious in our resolve to improve the and its term express requirements, to avoid unintended environment and tackle climate change. I congratulate consequences and resulting litigation. the Secretary of State and his Ministers on creating a I wholeheartedly welcome the Bill, but its very ambition structure for long-term environmental improvement, on brings with it the potential for discord, as big changes the application of the principle that the polluter should will inevitably alienate at least a portion of society. On be financially responsible for the life-cycle of its products, this wider note, and contrary to the apparent view of on ensuring an improvement in the air that we breathe, many of the Opposition speakers, I have faith in democracy. and on seeking to improve biodiversity through the It is to me a self-evident truth that the best way to planning system. I am sure that all those proposals have ensure acceptance of difficult policies is to have democratic widespread support. oversight of the implementation process. People must Our aim must be to achieve the Bill’s goals while continue to have a say in how they are governed if we minimising the bureaucratic burden and retaining a are to retain their consent. Planning decisions, while sense of fairness in the application of its policies. With often unpopular, are generally accepted as being part of that in mind, I respectfully suggest that further the democratic process. Compare that with the feelings improvements can be made to the Bill in the following engendered by the sometimes arbitrary approach of, for three areas. First, the requirement to demonstrate a example, the Environment Agency when seeking to 10% increase in biodiversity currently applies to every impose its assessment of environmental protection. The planning application, irrespective of the size or nature frustrated, impotent despair of constituents. the subjects of the development. Requiring a professional assessment of such decisions, will be familiar to many hon. Members. of the biodiversity impact pre and post the development I look forward to the day when we collectively address of a garden room extension, for example, first by the the democratic deficit of the raft of policy-making applicant and then by the planning authority to ensure non-governmental institutions. The Environment Agency conformity, is likely to increase bureaucratic costs, while and Natural England would be a good place to start. not making any significant improvement to biodiversity. To address that, I invite the Secretary of State to 6.18 pm consider exempting small planning applications, perhaps Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): It is a relating to single dwellings. pleasure to speak in today’s debate, especially after so Secondly, the proposed powers to revoke or amend many passionate and thoughtful contributions. Protecting water abstraction licences without compensation, if the the future of our natural environment must be a top Secretary of State is satisfied that the revocation is priority for this Parliament. We have seen all too clearly necessary, have caused considerable concern among the in recent weeks the impacts of extreme weather, in the farming community in my constituency, reliant as many UK and across the globe. Without urgent and concerted of them are on abstraction licences to grow the food efforts to tackle the climate emergency, such weather that we all need. I declare an interest, as a director and events will only become more frequent and more severe. shareholder of such a farming company. As my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton The subjective and undefined nature of the term and Devonport (Luke Pollard) said in his opening speech “satisfied”, taken together with the chilling application from our Benches, we need ambitious targets and consistent of the all-encompassing “precautionary principle”, would action across the whole of Government to achieve impose a daily threat to every such dependent farming them. The Bill provides a critical opportunity to strengthen business of being effectively closed down without environmental protection, safeguarding and enhancing compensation on 28 days’ notice, all within the discretion the countryside and green spaces that we value, but it of the local Environment Agency official. This is the can also ensure that more people can access them, enjoy Environment Agency that has no democratic oversight them and engage with the natural world. I want to and currently no remit to consider the economic or restrict my remarks to this aspect of the Bill. 417 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 418

[Lilian Greenwood] 6.23 pm Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con): I welcome We know why access to green space matters. As a the Bill. Indeed, I spoke the first time it was debated on country, we face rising obesity levels, increasing evidence 28 October, and the concerns I expressed then are very of poor mental health and widening health inequalities. similar to those I have heard today across the House. A recent paper published in the Journal of Environmental Clearly, the Office for Environmental Protection does Psychology found that visiting nature at least once a not have the teeth it needs. There are ongoing issues week was positively associated with general health and about water pollution—certainly the current regime that connection with nature was positive for both physical from the Marine Management Organisation and its and mental wellbeing. For example, people who live testing body, the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and within 500 metres of accessible green space are more Aquaculture Science, a European body, is not fit for likely to meet recommended levels of physical exercise. purpose. I also spoke about air quality and the challenges Engaging with nature also encourages people to adopt there, particularly with regard to the assistance needed pro-environmental behaviours. from central Government to local government. It is on I think the Government understand this. DEFRA’s local government that I wish to focus my remarks this 25-year environment plan recognises the benefits of evening. countryside access and notes that the number of people The Bill rightly places many obligations on local who spend little or no time in natural spaces is too high. government and the whole public sector, but there are It specifically refers to data from the monitor of engagement no counterbalancing obligations on Government to with the natural environment survey, which shows that provide support. I am lucky. Both Teignbridge, my 12% of children do not visit the natural environment district council, and Devon County Council have declared each year. The plan also recognises that the lack of a climate emergency and are putting plans in place access to nature is not equal. Residents in the most and setting up a forum to secure local input. They need deprived communities tend to suffer the poorest health that forum. They need a way of interacting with the and have access to significantly less green space than Government—this needs to be a joint project. people living in more affluent areas. Devon aims to be carbon-neutral by 2030. That is a I am acutely conscious, as an MP representing an hugely ambitious aim, which certainly could not be urban area with significant levels of poverty, that my achieved without central Government support. The county constituents should not be disadvantaged in terms of council has already reduced the carbon footprint by 40% access to wildlife-rich green space, and I know that this since 2012-13, and has reduced carbon emissions from concern is shared by Nottinghamshire Wildlife Trust, street lighting by 75%. It has established a net zero Greener UK and other national bodies, including the taskforce across the public-private voluntary sector, and Ramblers—I declare an interest as a member—and has involved Exeter University. It is calling for evidence, Cycling UK. I and they welcome the Bill, including the and it has a new citizens panel. With the local enterprise introduction of a framework of legally binding targets, partnership, we aim to make the region the UK’s provider but I hope that it can be strengthened by requiring the of renewable energy, delivering—best case—£45 billion Government to introduce targets around access to the to our regional economy, but there are huge challenges natural environment and by giving the introduction of involving, for instance, transport and travel. such targets in this area greater priority and certainty. In rural areas such mine, the car is key. We do not That could complement measures in the Agriculture have many buses and we do not have many trains, so Bill, which sets the framework for future financial assistance what might the Government do to support us? Many to landowners, including to support public access to people in extremely rural areas have very old cars, and and enjoyment of the countryside,farmland and woodland, will not be able to afford a spanking new electric car. and better understanding of the environment. For example, There will have to be a subsidy.Moreover, we do not have clearer targets in the Bill could help to direct finance to the necessary charging points.Teignbridge, my local district improve the accessibility of public rights of way networks. council, has two—or at least is applying for two—but Failing to give greater priority to targets to connect that will not get us very far, especially as the car is the people to nature would be a missed opportunity. main form of transport. I also call for two key elements of the Bill—biodiversity If the Government would like to encourage buses, gain and local nature recovery strategies—to be supported that would be fantastic. Give us some more, and make by clear legal duties on local authorities, but, very them electric! In that case, would the Secretary of State importantly, backed by adequate resources and framed have a word with his opposite number in the Ministry of in such a way that they promote collaboration between Housing, Communities and Local Government? At present, planning authorities. As Nottinghamshire Wildlife Trust we are not allowed to apply for the new electric town notes, without these measures there is a real risk of bus scheme because we are not deprived enough. Well, deepening social inequity,with biodiversity gains potentially Europe used to think that we were deprived enough: we being exported to more distant parts of the county. used to get quite a lot of money. I sincerely hope that Without appropriate resources, authorities may find it Ministers will look at that again. difficult to protect, let alone expand, green space, while As for trains, we are hoping that some of the new also facing pressures to find space to meet targets for Beeching lines will be opened, but let us have some new housing and transport infrastructure. trains—new electric trains. As for ships, yes, there is a Let us not miss this once-in-a-generation opportunity lot water in the south-west, and there is a port in my for joined-up government, promoting health and well- constituency.Scouring is not the answer to environmental being, boosting pro-environmental behaviour and ensuring problems. The shipping industry knows that, and so that future generations understand and value the do the Government, so will the Secretary of State do natural world. something about it? 419 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 420

We also need support from central Government for Such schemes should be widely encouraged, and I pay housing and planning. The planning regime is supposed tribute to those involved in projects locally, including to deal with environmental issues, but not in the way Bonds meadow in Oulton Broad, an historic landscape that is envisaged in the Bill. Significant change is needed. in a now urban area run by local community group, and We know that building regulations are not fit for purpose: Carltonmarshes,anexcitingandambitiousprojectpromoted we need only look at our cladding problems to see that. by the Suffolk Wildlife Trust to create a unique Suffolk Those regulations need to be rewritten with environmental broads landscape right on the edge of Lowestoft. issues in mind. Wemust give our district councils power to The Government’s clean air strategy should help to saynowhendeveloperscomeforwardwithplansthatdonot cut air pollution and save lives, and while the commitments meet environmental criteria, never mind any others. to tackle air pollution in the Bill are welcome, I believe Building design and structure need a great deal of that we need to go further to tackle this threat head-on. review, and I am afraid that we cannot rely entirely on A report by the British Lung Foundation, published the private sector for that. The Government have focused in October 2018, found that 2,220 GP practices and on domestic dwellings, but what is wrong with individual 248 hospitals across the country were in areas with industrial buildings? What is wrong with the local hospital, average levels of fine particulate matter above the limit school and fire station? Should they not be required to recommended by the World Health Organisation. From have solar panels fitted? The last attempt that was made my perspective, given that that is one of the most locally in my area was refused by the Government dangerous forms of air pollution, it is a matter of serious because they wanted to do it themselves, and I cannot concern that Lowestoft was included in the top 10 most see that happening. There has been a great focus on polluted GP surgery locations in the country. The solar panels for one of my local schools, Newton Abbot Government must make significant improvements in College, but the Government have said no, which is not this area and introduce a legally binding commitment in right. the Bill to meet the WHO guideline level for fine particulate I welcome the standardisation of waste collection, matter pollution by 2030. We must also improve the but would the Government ask some of our retailers to monitoring of air pollution at both national and local consider possible alternatives to plastic? All that has level, to include accessible and robust health information happened is that we have moved from single-use bags to and alerts. multiple-use bags which are being treated as single-use, Managing water is vital, and I will briefly highlight or else retailers are giving us paper bags that simply the impact of recent storms on coastal communities, break. We have rain in this country, and when it rains such as those in Lowestoft, Pakefield and Kessingland on a paper bag it dissolves in your hands. Will the on the Suffolk coast. In adapting to the impact of Government do something technically to support a bit climate change, it is important that coastal communities of research to sort this out, and get the retailers to sort are not forgotten and that the risk of harm to people, out their packaging, which is really hard to recycle? the environment and the economy from coastal erosion They should keep it simple. is prioritised. It is also necessary to have in mind the This is not all about objects and buildings; it is about importance of water to agriculture in East Anglia, for people and processes. The Government should be asking irrigating vegetable crops. I declare an interest as a partner the public sector to think about how it can do things in a family firm. It is important, as my hon. Friend the differently.In primary and secondary healthcare,technology Member for Broadland (Jerome Mayhew) has highlighted, could be used far more efficiently to reduce our carbon that the Government promote a collaborative approach footprint. to managing this vital resource. In summary, let me say this. Will the Secretary of Finally, it is good news that the Bill provides for the State commit himself to some proper research? Will he creation of the Office for Environmental Protection. It commit himself to some sort of subsidy, particularly for will play an important role in holding the Government those of us in rural areas? Will he engage with the to account, and it will be able to provide written advice private sector? Competition is a good thing, but reinventing on any proposed changes to environmental law. To the wheel is a complete waste of everyone’s money. Will maximise its impact, it will be crucial that the OEP has he provide a local government forum so that we can independence from Government and a strong enforcement raise issues and share solutions, and give young people capability.As the Countryside Alliance charity highlights, a forum with which to engage? I sincerely hope that I the upper tribunal of the OEP must be empowered to will receive some responses from the Minister—if not grant meaningful, dissuasive and effective remedies. tonight, in a written reply. Crucially, just as policies to ensure the transition to a low-carbon economy must be embedded across all 6.29 pm Departments and layers of national and local government, Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): I welcome both the so must our environmental protections pursue the same Bill and the Government’s vision to ensure that we have course and be subject to the same test. a vigorous and ambitious environmental strategy as we In conclusion, the Government have frequently stated leave the European Union. Generally, I believe that the that as we leave the European Union our current high Bill provides the necessary framework to protect and environmental standards will be not only upheld but restore our natural environment, as promised in the enhanced. This Bill can play an important role in ensuring Conservative general election manifesto. I acknowledge not only that we have a green Brexit but that we continue the work that the Government have done, and I will to forge ahead as international environmental leaders. highlight briefly four areas of particular importance to the people I represent in Waveney and north-east Suffolk. 6.34 pm The Bill will enable the development of a nature Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) (Lab): We recovery network, providing over 1.25 million acres of have had an excellent, thoughtful and informed debate, additional wildlife habitat to protect and restore wildlife. with contributions from many hon. Members from 421 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 422

[Dr Alan Whitehead] The hon. Member for West Dorset (Chris Loder) spoke about air quality, and the right hon. Member for across the House. The several maiden speeches we heard Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) spoke about targets and fine this afternoon were universally first rate, and the Members particle air pollution. The imperative in setting targets who made them will have an important role to play in in these areas and more is to make them stick, and we future debates on the environment. The hon. Members heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East for Aylesbury (Rob Butler), for Truro and Falmouth (Kerry McCarthy) about milestones and the lag in (Cherilyn Mackrory), for Runnymede and Weybridge implementation. (Dr Spencer), for Meriden (Saqib Bhatti), for Dudley We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for North (Marco Longhi) and for Wolverhampton North Leeds North West about the need for targets to be East (Jane Stevenson) acquitted themselves brilliantly. connected. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member I am informed that the hon. Member for Aylesbury for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) about the targets appeared on “Blankety Blank”, and I can only add to having no teeth and about his concerns on the indoor that my youthful appearance on “Crackerjack”. I do not air pollution targets. know whether that equates to “Blankety Blank”, but it We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for perhaps goes some of the way. I am happy to visit the Blaydon about concerns that targets can easily be set constituency of the hon. Member for Burton (Kate aside by the Secretary of State at his discretion. Indeed, Griffiths) provided that I get a tour of the brewery and a we heard from the hon. Member for Newton Abbot ticket for the match on 5 May when Burton Albion are (Anne Marie Morris) about the obligations on the going to thrash Portsmouth—my local rival football team. Government to support local authorities and other All this afternoon’s speeches, thoughtful and important agencies in making these things work—that was a vital though they were, concentrated on the imperatives of contribution. the Environment Bill. One imperative is that we ensure the maintenance of high environmental standards on On both sides of the House, there is a view that this is leaving the EU and that there is no regression. We heard not a bad Bill but that it could be much better. In short, from my hon. Friends the Members for City of Chester the Opposition want a Bill that is (Christian Matheson), for Leeds North West (Alex Sobel) “a truly landmark piece of legislation, enshrining environmental and for Sheffield, Hallam (Olivia Blake) worries that principles in law, requiring this Government and their successors to set demanding and legally binding targets and creating a standards would be lowered and that the OEP will … perhaps not be as independent as it should be in terms world-leading watchdog to hold them to account.”—[Official Report, 28 October 2019; Vol. 667, c. 90.] of enforcing standards. We heard from the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) about delivering on the promises That is what we want, but they are not my words. They of higher environmental standards, from my hon. Friend are the words of the right hon. Member for Chipping the Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist) about the independence Barnet (Theresa Villiers) in moving Second Reading of the OEP, and from my hon. Friend the Member for when the Environment Bill last appeared on the Floor Putney (Fleur Anderson) on non-regression. of the House. Another imperative is that we must be sure about Is this Bill, as it stands, that landmark piece of how we are to treat the natural environment and biodiversity legislation? Will it stand the test of time and bind this in the wake of the climate emergency. We heard from and future Governments to the targets and practices it my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South sets out? Is it a Bill for the future or just for the next (Lilian Greenwood) about the imperative of countryside period, to get the Government over an environmental access and natural spaces, from my hon. Friend the hump, and then maybe the issue will go away? Well, it Member for City of Chester about biodiversity targets, will not go away, which is why we need a Bill that from my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central delivers in the long term. Looking at the Bill as it stands, (Dan Jarvis) on tree planting, from my hon. Friend the we know it probably will not. Member for Blaydon on net gain in biodiversity, from The Bill is full of loopholes that allow the Government my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West of the day to act, or not, as they think fit. It opens an Norwood (Helen Hayes) on biodiversity gain and species enormous door that a future Government who are not decline, and from the hon. Member for Hertford and committed to action on the environment and the climate Stortford (Julie Marson) on biodiversity gain. emergency can walk through. The key issue of the As for the imperative to enshrine standards on water, independence of the Office for Environmental Protection air quality and waste, we heard from my hon. Friend is inadequately addressed. The target-making sections the Member for Putney about air pollution and WHO of the Bill do not cohere with the delivery sections. guidelines, from my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham There is obscurity about how targets in the Bill are to be East (Janet Daby) on chemicals and air quality, from set and met. Altogether, it is not good enough. the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), the Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs The Bill has to bind Governments of whatever colour Committee, about water retention and standards, and to doing the right things relative to the natural environment, from my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds North West water, waste, conservation and land use for the future, about air quality targets and his particular concern because we will secure a liveable environment and a about beaches. My hon. Friend the Member for Ealing secure home for species facing the consequences of North (James Murray) drew attention to air quality climate change only if we do the right thing by the standards, and the hon. Member for Waveney (Peter environment and keep on doing it. Aldous) spoke about going further on air pollution We need a climate change Act for the environment, than we currently are. The hon. Member for Bath spoke and what we have at the moment is a charter for now about return schemes, removing plastic from municipal and not for tomorrow. That is why we will table a robust waste and knowing where waste ends up. series of amendments in Committee. In the spirit of our 423 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 424 jointly stated aim of making this Bill a landmark Act let me welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley that will stand the test of time on the environment, we North (Marco Longhi), the first ever Conservative Member expect those amendments to be carefully considered for that constituency and the first ever Marco here. I and acted on by the Government in Committee. That is loved his infectious optimism for his area, which I know why we will not oppose Second Reading, but we expect extends to this Bill—this is excellent. How brilliant it that when the Bill returns to the Floor of the House we was to hear from my hon. Friend the Member for will be able, as a result of those amendments, to endorse Wolverhampton North East (Jane Stevenson) about her it wholeheartedly as the Bill we all need for our key making ancestors and to hear her standing up for environmental and climate futures. green space, volunteers and Wolverhampton Wanderers. What a wonderful wealth of talent has come into our 5.43 pm Chamber! TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof StateforEnvironment, Let me get back to the Bill, as that is what I am Food and Rural Affairs (Rebecca Pow): I am pleased to supposed to be talking about. I have to pay tribute to a see you back in the Chair for the winding up of this most few others who are no longer in this House but who did important of debates, Mr Speaker. so much work on this Bill: Richard Benyon; Mary Creagh, a great woman who served on the Environmental Having worked on the environmental agenda in one Audit Committee with me; Sarah Newton; Sir Oliver form or another for pretty much my whole life, it is a Letwin; Sue Hayman; and Sandy Martin. They have all huge honour to be the Environment Minister in a been key in the progress of this Bill so far, as have many Government who are putting the environment at the others on these Benches. top of our agenda. Not only are we doing that, but we are demonstrating that we mean action on the environment Obviously, I hardly need to reiterate the urgent case with this Environment Bill, which will be a game changer. for action on the environment, as it is clearer than ever. We are witnessing a shocking decline in nature and As I am sure the shadow Minister will agree, the biodiversity. Our countryside is increasingly denuded of environment should not be about one party or one its wildlife; we have lost almost half of our breeding Government. Party politics should be put aside, which curlews and so many wonderful species. We are facing is why I welcome the Opposition’ssupport in not opposing climate change, with flooding here and bush fires in the Bill tonight, albeit couched in much criticism that I Australia. Those things all demonstrate that we need believe is largely unfounded. I very much look forward to take action and get on with it now, and that is what to thrashing that out in Committee. This is a huge we intend with this Bill. I am sure the whole House moment for us all as a nation; this landmark Bill will agrees with me that we need more bees, butterflies and transform our approach to protecting and enhancing beautiful dawn choruses, and I believe this Bill will our precious environment, and set us on a much-needed bring that about. sustainable trajectory for the future. I should thank some of my colleagues here, particularly At the outset, I want to applaud all my hon. Friends my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke who have chosen to make their maiden speeches during (Mrs Miller), who was so optimistic about the Bill this crucial debate. They have chosen well, for they and praiseworthy in agreeing with it. This is why this realise that this is such an important moment in our Environment Bill is critical: it will drive environmental history.I applaud them for waiting this long and choosing action across the whole of Government. This is not just to make their maiden speeches tonight. And haven’t about DEFRA; the environmental principles must be they been wonderful? They have all been rivalling one taken into account across Government policy making, another for the best constituency, but we have heard through the policy principles statements. Policy will some great things about those constituencies. For example, have to be pragmatic, balanced and take account of our my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Rob Butler) net zero commitments. The duty on the Government to mentioned the singing statue and the statue of Disraeli; meet our new legally binding targets will ensure that all I welcome our former journalist, with whom I have a Departments and Ministers share responsibility and great deal in common, as he is going to add a lot to this accountability for driving long-term environmental place. improvements. The Office for Environmental Protection My hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth will be able to enforce all environmental law and it will (Cherilyn Mackrory) mentioned her dog, geothermal oversee all public bodies; unlike any EU framework, energy and her wonderful fisherman husband, of whom that will ensure accountability at the right level. The she is so proud. I was almost moved to tears, because I legislation takes a much-needed holistic approach to now feel proud of him too. My hon. Friend the Member our environment—that is one of the benefits of leaving for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer), the doctor the EU. It is so much more holistic than what was in the House, will bring so much experience through his happening before. knowledge of mental health, and I hope he will link that I have a few minutes to address some of the key to the wellbeing of the environment and countryside, points, of which there were many. There were some and the things we can gain from it. My hon. Friend the great and insightful contributions. Many Members raised Member for Meriden (Saqib Bhatti) follows in the the issue of non-regression. We have absolutely no footsteps of Dame Caroline Spelman, who did so much plans to reduce our existing level of environmental to champion biodiversity in this House. I loved his “dare protection. The existing regulations were implemented to believe” statement and I am so proud. I am hoping during the UK’s membership of the EU and are still in that he is daring to believe in this Bill, and I thank him force in UK law now. They are enforceable in UK for choosing to speak today. courts and will remain enforceable in UK courts. That My hon. Friend the Member for Burton (Kate Griffiths) has not changed. Any targets introduced through the mentioned beer, JCB, fluorinating and, let us not forget, Bill will not diminish our environmental protections but Uttoxeter. She is going to be a great voice here. Similarly, add to them. 425 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 426

[Rebecca Pow] Rebecca Pow: I am not going to give way. That independence is vital for the OEP to be able Indeed, the UK is already at the forefront of to hold the Government to account effectively. It will environmental protection and a leader in setting ambitious have multi-annual financial settlements, which were targets to prevent damage to our natural world. We were welcomed by my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton so influential in this policy area in the EU. [Interruption.] and Honiton, and they will run over five years to I have a couple of examples for the shadow Secretary of provide financial stability. That is welcome; even if the State, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Government changes, that will stay in place. Crucially, Devonport (Luke Pollard), because he is mithering away the OEP’s environmental remit will include climate at me. Last year, the UK became the first major economy change to ensure that we play our part in reducing global anywhere in the world to set a legally binding target to emissions. In that respect, I truly believe that we will be achieve net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The a world leader. UK’s landfill tax is one of the highest in Europe and is effectively reducing the disposal of waste and increasing I will move on now to air quality, because, again, this recycling. Those are just a couple of examples but there was much mentioned. Clause 2 includes a requirement are many more. to set a new air quality target to reduce concentrations of fine particulate matter—the most damaging pollutant Non-regression was mentioned by many Members, to human health. As a mother of a son who had asthma including the hon. Members for Leeds North West for many years while he was growing up, this issue is (Alex Sobel), for City of Chester (Christian Matheson), close to my heart. I have heard loud and clear all the for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), for Sheffield, Hallam comments that have been made today. [Interruption.] I (Olivia Blake), for Swansea West (Geraint Davies), for am being disrupted by notes. I thought that the note Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport and for Glasgow said that someone was in the bar. [Interruption.] I am East (David Linden). I hope that some of the things I being told that Bim is here, but I am not allowed to have just said will have reassured them. mention him. [Interruption.] Okay, so he is not in the All that leads me to the not unrelated subject of bar; he is behind the Bar. targets. I am grateful to Members from a whole range of constituencies, some of which I have already mentioned, Let me turn now to the very serious matter of air but particularly the hon. Member for Cardiff North quality, which was mentioned by so many Members, (Anna McMorrin), for raising issues and concerns in including my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney relation to targets. Far from there being no teeth, through (Peter Aldous), who is very strong on the subject, and the Bill we will put in place a comprehensive system that also my hon. Friends the Members for Runnymede and will set long-term, 15-year targets. There will be interim Weybridge (Dr Spencer) and for Vale of Clwyd (Dr Davies). targets every five years—that is in clause 10—to support This Government are committed to setting an ambitious the achievement of the long-term targets. On top of target, which has the support of all sectors and citizens that, we will have a triple lock in law to drive the short- to drive real change and realise significant health benefits term progress. Let me run through those three things— for people everywhere. To do this, we need to ensure that we follow a robust evidence-based process where Anna McMorrin rose— everyone’s voice is heard and where everyone can play a role. That is why we need time to work together to get Rebecca Pow: I am not going to take any interventions this target right, which is why it is not in the Bill. Many because I want to get through some of the details. Members have called for experts to advise on these The Government must have a plan on what they targets, and they will. That is exactly how it will work intend to do to improve the environment—that is under and how the target will be set up. clause 7. The Government must report on the targets I will move to nature now, Mr Speaker, which I every year—that is in clause 8. The Office for Environmental know is something that greatly interests you. Following Protection will hold us to account on progress towards consultation, we believe that the 10% net gain strikes achieving the targets, and every year can recommend the right balance between ambition, certainty and how we can make better progress—that is in clause 25. deliverability. If developers and local authorities are It will all become clear in Committee. It is a step-by-step able to pursue higher gains—I am confident that many way of holding us to account and not reducing any of will—Government do not intend to restrict them. our standards. Biodiversity net gain will work with the local nature The really important thing to mention is the Office recovery strategies in the Bill to drive environmental for Environmental Protection, which was much mentioned improvements, and those strategies will be very much by many in the debate, including the shadow Secretary influenced from the ground up by all of those people of State. It was also mentioned by my hon. Friend the with knowledge that we so want to get involved. My Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), who right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire made an excellent speech, and the hon. Member for (Mr Paterson) mentioned knowledge and involving people Ealing North (James Murray). My hon. Friend the who have that knowledge and expertise working on the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) ground, and that is one way that we will do it. vociferously described the OEP and summed it up well, because he absolutely gets it. The very existence of the I want to touch on trees, because that was mentioned OEP is a clear sign of our willingness to be held to by the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis), account for our actions. The OEP will have jurisdiction my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke over all parts of Government and will hold regulators (Mrs Miller) and the shadow Minister himself. The to account. Ministers will be under a legal duty to Government remain absolutely committed to reaching respect its independence—that is in schedule 1. 12% woodland cover in England by 2060 and have reaffirmed that in the 25-year environment plan. The House David Linden rose— should remember that the environmental improvement 427 Environment Bill 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Environment Bill 428 plan of this Bill is the first plan of the 25 year-environment Proceedings on Consideration and up to and plan. That is what it is; it enacts it. The manifesto including Third Reading committed to planting 11 million rural trees and an (4) Proceedings on Consideration and any proceedings in legislative additional 1 million urban trees by 2022. We will shortly grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be consult on that. brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Consideration are commenced. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): Will my hon. (5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not Friend give way on that point? previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day. Rebecca Pow: I am really not going to give way, (6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall because I have not given way to anybody else. I know not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including that my hon. Friend is a huge tree fan. Third Reading. We will shortly consult on a new English tree strategy, in which we will set out further plans to accelerate Other proceedings woodland creation to reach our long-term goals, including (7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.— our net-zero emissions by 2050, and to complement our (Maria Caulfield.) Environment Bill. I was pleased that Members welcomed Question agreed to. the urban measures in the Bill, too. Members will not be surprised that I simply cannot ENVIRONMENT BILL (MONEY) get through all the comments that have been made. Queen’s recommendation signified. Climate change, by the way, has definitely been included Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing in the Bill. I just want to say that there have been so Order No. 52(1)(a)), many tremendous and insightful contributions tonight That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the from right across the House. I am really sorry that I Environment Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of have not been able to answer all of the queries and money provided by Parliament of: questions raised today, but we do have answers to all of (1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by them. My door is constantly open to anyone who wants the Secretary of State; and to raise these things again or share their views with me (2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable and with the rest of our team. Obviously, the Secretary under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Maria Caulfield.) of State is the key here. I really think that, together, we Question agreed to. can make this a better world not just for us and for our children, but for our children’s children and all the ENVIRONMENT BILL (WAYS AND MEANS) creatures on this earth. I commend this Bill to the House. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Question put and agreed to. Order No. 52(1)(a)), Bill accordingly read a Second time. That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Environment Bill, it is expedient to authorise: (1) the imposition of requirements to pay sums in respect of ENVIRONMENT BILL (PROGRAMME) the costs of disposing of products and materials; and Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing (2) the imposition under or by virtue of the Act of fees and Order No. 83A(7)), charges in connection with— That the following provisions shall apply to the Environment Bill: (a) the exercise of functions, and (b) biodiversity credits.—(Maria Caulfield.) Committal Question agreed to. (1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee. DEFERRED DIVISIONS Proceedings in Public Bill Committee Ordered, (2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as That, at this day’s sitting, Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday divisions) shall not apply to the Motion in the name of Secretary 5 May 2020. Priti Patel relating to the Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism.— (Maria Caulfield.) (3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets. Question agreed to. 429 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Prevention and Suppression 430 of Terrorism Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism and possession of documents useful to a terrorist in June 2019. The group has encouraged and glorified acts Mr Speaker: Before I call the Minister, I will ask the of terrorism via its online posts and images. It has also Chair of the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, issued home-made propaganda using Nazi imagery, Jessica Morden, to make an announcement. calling for attacks on minorities.The images can reasonably be taken as implying that these acts should be emulated, Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): Thank you and therefore amount to the unlawful glorification of very much, Mr Speaker. The House can see the note on terrorism. SKD is the second right-wing group to be the Order Paper saying that this instrument has not yet proscribed in the United Kingdom. been considered by the Joint Committee on Statutory This order also seeks to add two more names to the Instruments. However, I can confirm that the Joint list, as aliases of the PKK, an armed separatist group Committee has met this afternoon, considered the that advocates an independent Kurdish state in south- instrument and has nothing to report concerning the east Turkey. The TAK—from the Kurdish for Kurdistan draft order. Freedom Hawks—has been proscribed as a terrorist Mr Speaker: I thank the hon. Lady for that information; organisation in its own right since July 2006. Although the House can now proceed with good ease. it presents itself as a breakaway faction of the PKK, the Government now understand it to be an alias of that 7.4 pm group. The same goes for the HPG, another PKK alias that is not currently recognised as such in the UK. TheMinisterof State,HomeDepartment(JamesBrokenshire): Amending the PKK listing to include both TAK and I beg to move, HPG as its aliases will send a clear message that the UK That the Terrorism Act 2000 (Proscribed Organisations) recognises the ongoing threat that the PKK poses, and (Amendment) Order 2020, which was laid before this House on 24 February, be approved. that we will never be a haven for international terrorism. The people of the United Kingdom continue to live By way of separate order under the negative resolution under the threat of terrorist violence. None of us has procedure, we have also updated the Act to include forgotten the terrible tragedy at London Bridge last System Resistance Network or SRN as an alias of the November or the attack in Streatham less than four proscribed group National Action. National Action is a weeks ago. I would like once again to pay tribute to the neo-Nazi group that was established in 2013. It has a police, emergency services and members of the public, number of branches across the UK that conduct provocative whose swift action and selfless bravery prevented further street demonstrations and stunts aimed at intimidating loss of life. Those are only the most recent incidents in a minority communities. Its activities and propaganda string of attacks that have repeatedly shocked the country materials are particularly aimed at recruiting and in recent years, but the fortitude of the British people indoctrinating young people. The group is virulently and their refusal to be cowed or intimidated has made it racist, antisemitic and homophobic. Its ideology promotes clear to those responsible that they can never win. the idea that Britain will inevitably see a violent race The most recent attackers in this country had been war, of which the group claims it will be an active part. radicalised and motivated by a dangerous perversion of The group rejects democracy, is hostile to the British the Islamic faith, but as the appalling murder of nine state and seeks to divide society. innocent people in the German city of Hanau has In 2016, National Action was assessed to be concerned shown, no ideology has a monopoly on hatred. The in terrorism, and became the first right-wing terrorist visceral racism of the extreme right is just as likely to group to be proscribed in the UK. The group’s online inspire terrorism as any religious fanaticism. We have a propaganda material, disseminated via social media, duty to our allies, as well as to our own people, to tackle frequently features extremely violent imagery and language. those groups that inspire and co-ordinate international National Action also promoted and encouraged acts of terror. terrorism following the tragic murder of our colleague Some 75 international terrorist organisations are currently Jo Cox, condoning and glorifying those who have used proscribed under the Terrorism Act 2000. Thanks to extreme violence for political or ideological ends. our security and intelligence services, most of those It is right that we take the threat of the extreme far groups have never carried out a successful attack on right seriously. That is why the 2011 Prevent strategy UK soil. Proscription is a vital tool to disrupt terrorist explicitly discusses the threat of extreme right-wing networks and bring those who support them to justice. terrorism and our 2015 counter-extremism strategy sets Once proscribed, an organisation is outlawed and unable out how we will challenge extremism in all its forms, to operate in the UK. It becomes a criminal offence including from far-right racist beliefs.Since the proscription to be a member, to support them or to encourage the of National Action and its aliases, 27 individuals have support of others. Proscription makes it harder for been arrested on suspicion of being a member of the banned groups to fundraise and recruit members. Their group, 15 of whom have been charged with terrorism assets can become subject to seizure as terrorist property, offences. Since March 2017, our security and intelligence and those linked to them may be excluded from the UK services have disrupted no fewer than eight major right-wing using immigration powers. terrorist plots and our Channel programme seeks to Today’s order makes certain changes to the list of safeguard people who are vulnerable to radicalisation proscribed groups under the Terrorism Act 2000. First, from the far right. Of the 561 individuals who were it adds a new group, Sonnenkrieg Division or SKD. adopted to a local Channel panel last year, 45% were This is a white supremacist group formed in March referred for concerns related to right-wing terrorism. Of 2018 as a splinter group of System Resistance Network, course, our police forces are making full use of public itself an alias of the proscribed group National Action. order powers to disrupt far-right demonstrations and Members of SKD were convicted of encouraging terrorism organised intimidations. 431 Prevention and Suppression 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Prevention and Suppression 432 of Terrorism of Terrorism The proscriptions that have been laid before the It is a sad fact that far-right extremism is increasing. House are a key part of our strategy.Terrorist organisations Last week we saw the awful tragedy in Germany to are seeking to change their names, hiding behind aliases which the Minister referred, with the killing of nine to avoid detection and prosecution. They seek to circumvent people and the wounding of six others in two late night our robust anti-terror laws so that they can continue to cafés before the individual concerned went home and spread hatred and inspire violence. It is vital that the killed himself and his mother. Before that rampage, he Government’s counter-extremism strategy challenges released what can only be described as a letter of hate to extremism in all its forms—violent and non-violent, the German nation. Islamist and neo-Nazi—and it does, and will continue Earlierthisweek,TheTimesinterviewedDaveThompson, to do so. We will not tolerate any groups who spread thechief constableof WestMidlandspoliceandvice-chairman hate by demonising those of other faiths or ethnicities, of the National Police Chiefs Council, who also outlined and who deliberately raise community fears and tensions the fact that the far-right threat is rising. He said: by bringing disorder and violence to our communities. “There is a greater prevalence of extremist far-right activity, As the threat posed by these groups continues to evolve, and we’ve got to police that very carefully because people are not so will our response to them. These proscriptions are just talking about a shared ideology, they do talk about doing part of that evolution, and I urge hon. and right hon. things…It isn’t just promoting an ideology, it is a very much Members on both sides of the House to join me in fixated approach to attacking people.” supporting them today. As of September 2019, on the latest available Home Office statistics, there were 38 individuals in custody 7.9 pm who expressed extreme right-wing views; by comparison, Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab): I am very in 2013 there were only six. On that basis and in this grateful to the Minister for his remarks and for his context, this proscription is a welcome move to tackle briefing me earlier today. I welcome him back to the the threat that is before us. role that he used to occupy when the right hon. Member I move on to the amendment and merging of PKK for Maidenhead (Mrs May) was Home Secretary.Of course, and TAK in the list of proscribed organisations, and I wish him every success in this very, very important role adding HPG as an alias of PKK. It is worth noting that in Government. PKK was proscribed and listed back in 2001. TAK had I join the Minister in his remarks about the extraordinary been proscribed since 2006, and the assessment has bravery and heroism of those who acted to save life been made that HPG is an alias of PKK. Looking at both at London Bridge and at Streatham. But as he set that history, it is important that as the organisation out, they are only two in a long line of incidents, so evolves, the law evolves with it. On that basis, the changes while that threat is evolving, so too must our response. I that the Minister is suggesting are sensible. entirely share his view that those who peddle hatred will As I said, the recent attacks in London Bridge and never divide us across this House. Streatham highlight the need for a continuing focus on I ask the Minister to pass on my thanks to the Home this area. Proscription, as the Minister will be aware, is Secretary for the letter that she sent to the shadow only one part of doing that. He mentioned the Prevent Home Secretary setting out the logic behind this decision. programme. Could he confirm when an independent I make it absolutely clear that the Opposition support reviewer of the Prevent programme will be appointed? the measure before the House. We support the decision I am sure he is aware of the statutory obligation that to proscribe Sonnenkrieg Division and the merging and requires the report to be laid before the House before amending in relation to PKK, and the decision taken in August this year. It is, of course, important to have the relation to SRN. The first duty of any Government is right person in place, but time is also of the essence. the protection of the public. These are, of course, More widely,can he confirm the importance of maintaining difficult decisions where a balance has to be found in the strength of our existing security tools in our negotiations proscription decisions as per section 3 of the Terrorism with the EU this year? The European arrest warrant, Act 2000. Europol and the other databases are crucial in the fight I turn first to Sonnenkrieg Division. As the Minister against terrorism, which recognises no borders. set out, it is a white supremacist group—a splinter Terror attacks are a reminder—a terrible reminder—of group of System Resistance Network, which is an alias the atrocities that can happen, but they also show the of the already-proscribed National Action. Members of tremendous efforts of our emergency services, police SKD were jailed in June 2019 for terrorism offences, and security services and the resolve and strength of including encouraging terrorism and possession of our communities. While these occasions are always documents useful to a terrorist attack. It encouraged an sombre, we should derive great optimism from the strength attack on the Duke of Sussex because of his marriage of our communities and the resilience they show in the to the Duchess of Sussex. The Home Secretary’s letter face of a threat of hatred that will never divide us in on this stated that the group has this House. “encouraged and glorified acts of terrorism via its posts and images, including home-made propaganda using Nazi imagery 7.15 pm calling for attacks on minorities.” Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and SKD is the second right-wing organisation to be proscribed, Kirkintilloch East) (SNP): I am grateful to the Minister and rightly so.National Action was proscribed in December for setting out the reasons for the order, and I join him 2016 when it was found to be publicising its online and the shadow Minister in paying tribute to the emergency material via social media, frequently featuring extreme workers and members of the public who have stood up violent images, including promoting and encouraging to and responded to the recent terrorist attacks. The acts of terrorism in the wake of the murder of our dear Scottish National party supports the additions and friend and colleague Jo Cox. That is why, as I indicated, amendments that the Government have proposed to the I join with the Minister in his action with regard to SRN. list of proscribed organisations. 433 Prevention and Suppression 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Prevention and Suppression 434 of Terrorism of Terrorism [Stuart C. McDonald] Jim Shannon: I thank the Minister for that, which is very positive. I always expect positivity from the Minister As the Minister said, the backdrop to this legislation whenever the opportunity arises, and it very clearly has is a rise in far-right activity, and therefore we particularly tonight. welcome the proscription of Sonnenkrieg Division and, via the separate order to which he referred, the addition Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): of National Action, alias the System Resistance Network. I thank the hon. Member for his very important There seems to be no doubt that those are vulnerable, contribution. Does he agree with me that it may be sick and hateful organisations that are concerned with useful to hear from the Minister about updates in terrorism. relation to other police forces, and whether there could We have seen recent arrests and convictions of various be a more systematic way in which police forces, perhaps members of proscribed right-wing terrorist groups. On like the Met, update Members of Parliament about the one hand, that suggests that the powers to proscribe where there may be growing threats in our regions or are assisting police officers to disrupt activity, but on local areas? the other hand, it reminds us that proscription is far from a solution in itself—it is just a small first step. The Jim Shannon: Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. I think very fact that since National Action was proscribed, we there probably is a method in place for doing that have had to add NS131, Scottish Dawn and System already. I believe there is—I know it is done in different Resistance Network shows that, for these organisations, ways in this House and outside this House—and I know proscription is not the end in itself but a significant that the Minister’s role as a former Secretary of State inconvenience. We need to ask ourselves at some point for Northern Ireland gives him a real insight into what whether we are making it inconvenient enough for them happens in Northern Ireland. and whether there might be other ways to deal with the I wanted to ask that question because my understanding process of terror groups morphing into one another. is that there is a growth in right-wing extremism in the The other part of the order seems essentially to be a Province, probably masquerading under the proscribed tidying-up exercise in relation to the PKK and its aliases. organisations already there. I know it is very important, As the Minister explained, the PKK is an organisation so could I, for the record, gently refer to the IRA that has engaged in violence over many years, including dissident threat? It is still very clearly there for police during periods covered by ceasefires with the Turkish officers and prison officers, with booby-traps under Government. It remains on the proscribed lists of our their cars. A large bomb, destined for the Larne ferry, international allies, so adding appropriate aliases seems was found and thwarted by the police and intelligence logical. officers—and a real biggie that would have been for the IRA. Again, however, it shows that police forces are on At some point, we need to have a review of the top of that. It is very clear to me that this is a salient effectiveness of proscription and whether there are ways reminder that IRA terrorists and IRA dissidents in we can make it more difficult for proscribed organisations. particular are just as dangerous in the United Kingdom, There may also be questions to ask about how we scrutinise as indeed are ISIS terrorists. these orders in the House, but that is for another day. These are not controversial additions, so we join the The Minister referred to going for the assets. I welcome shadow Minister in lending our support to the order. his comment, but could we have a bit more detail, if possible, for the record? It is so important that the 7.18 pm assets of such organisations are targeted and focused on in order to take away the money and the opportunity Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): First, I thank the that they quite clearly have. In Northern Ireland, Minister for bringing this order to the House, which is paramilitary groups are involved in drug dealing, trafficking, really important. There is rightly a focus on ISIS terrorism protection rackets and all of those things. Again, I here in the United Kingdom, on the mainland, but understand that the close contacts between paramilitary there is also a rise in right-wing terrorism. He mentioned and right-wing organisations in Northern Ireland and the attacks in Germany, but here on the UK mainland, those on the mainland involve all the spheres of fundraising there are indications of a rise in right-wing extremism. that they are trying to use. These groups may masquerade as different organisations and try to transform or transmute into something else, James Brokenshire: I can absolutely give the hon. and the proscription of the SKD is very important. Has Gentleman reassurance on the issue of tracking terrorists’ the Minister, or perhaps the Minister for Crime and finance and assets. Proscription actually aids this, which Policing, had an opportunity to have talks with the is why we have brought this order before the House Police Service of Northern Ireland? It is a yes/no question; today. we do not need the detail. I just want to assure the hon. Member for Feltham James Brokenshire: I look forward to maintaining the and Heston (Seema Malhotra) that my door is open to contact with the PSNI that I enjoyed while holding all Members across the House on issues relating to how other responsibilities, and I know the importance of we can brief and give updates. I very much remain open focusing on security in Northern Ireland. Equally, I to all colleagues who wish to come and talk to me and, will take this opportunity to underline, in relation to if they have concerns, to draw them to my attention. the prevention work for those involved in terrorism, that we are committed to the independent review of Jim Shannon: Again, I thank the Minister for the Prevent, and this important work will go ahead. We will confirmation he has given. be running a full and open recruitment process to I have one wee thing to say on the assets issue. Very appoint the next reviewer, and further details will be often, paramilitary groups or criminal groups turn some announced shortly. of their ill-gotten gains and money into businesses that 435 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Business without Debate 436 are legitimate, and they may even pay tax. However, the in the last Session of Parliament, be presented to Her Majesty for issue of the moneys to create those assets and those her Royal Assent in the form in which it was laid before Parliament.— money-making opportunities needs to be addressed. (Andrew Selous.) For a company taking on the assets, if we destroy the Question agreed to. money-making capabilities, we destroy the organisation Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing that is trying to succeed. Order No. 118(6)), I want to raise a last point with the Minister in relation to the contact he has very clearly said he has CAPITAL GAINS TAX with the PSNI. May I ask what contact there has been That the draft Double Taxation Relief and International Tax with the Garda Síochána? I am ever mindful that the Enforcement (Gibraltar) Order 2020, which was laid before this person in charge down there is a former police officer House on 7 January, be approved.—(Maria Caulfield.) from the PSNI, with a good pedigree, and I think the Question agreed to. relationship should be strong. Again, would the Minister confirm that that is the situation? BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE James Brokenshire: Briefly, I can assure the hon. Ordered, Gentleman that we maintain very close contacts with a That, at the sitting on Monday 2 March: number of our security partners. Obviously, as he will (1) the motion in the name of Secretary Grant Shapps relating understand, I will not go that in any detail, but I do to the High Speed Rail (West Midlands - Crewe) Bill may be recognise the point he makes. entered upon at any hour, and may continue, though opposed, for up to one hour; the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to Jim Shannon: I really welcome what the Minister has dispose of proceedings on the motion not later than one hour put forward tonight, and I am reassured by what he has after their commencement; such Questions shall include the Questions said. For us back home in Northern Ireland, including on any Amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be in my constituency, and all the other people across the moved; and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall world who wish to build a future that is free of terrorism, not apply; and the comments the Minister has made are reassuring. (2) notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No. 55(1) They reassure me personally, and I hope they reassure (Questions on voting of estimates, etc.) relating to the moment of my constituents as well. interruption, the Speaker shall put successively the Questions on any motions in the name of Secretary Ben Wallace and Jesse Question put and agreed to. Norman tabled in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 55(4) immediately upon the disposal of proceedings on the motion relating to the High Speed Rail (West Midlands - Business without Debate Crewe) Bill.—(Maria Caulfield.)

PETITION DELEGATED LEGISLATION West Midlands rail freight interchange Mr Speaker: With the leave of the House we shall take motions 7 and 8 together. 7.25 pm Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)), Theo Clarke (Stafford) (Con): Nearly 3,000 residents of Gailey, Penkridge, Wheaton Aston, Bishops Wood, Stafford, and Staffordshire have signed the following SOCIAL SECURITY petition: That the draft Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions and Amounts) (Amendment) Regulations 2020, which were laid The petition states: before this House on 16 January, be approved. The petition of residents of Gailey, Penkridge, Wheaton Aston, That the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) Bishops Wood, Stafford, and Staffordshire, (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2020, which Declares that the current proposals to build the West Midlands were laid before this House on 16 January, be approved.—(Maria Interchange at the A5 roundabout near Gailey will lead to mass Caulfield.) congestion in the region, with over 18,000 extra vehicles occupying Question agreed to. the A449 and A5, erode the identity of the small surrounding villages and have a devastating impact on the environment, with Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing the development predicted to cause over 16 tonnes of added CO2 Order No. 118(6)), emissions. The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons CHURCH OF ENGLAND (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) urges the Government and Secretary of State for Transport to take all possible steps to reject these proposals and to ensure that MEASURE the greenbelt is maintained for the benefit of future generations. That the Church of England (Miscellaneous Provisions) Measure (HC 299), passed by the General Synod of the Church of England, And the petitioners remain, etc. [P002560] a copy of which was laid before this House on 4 November 2019, 437 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port 438

Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port skills, the vision and the leadership needed to produce Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House well-run schools. Secondly, the first reaction to a poor do now adjourn.—(Michael Tomlinson.) Ofsted rating is often for the headteacher to consider their position. I know that both heads did that after 7.27 pm their inspections, but they both retain the confidence of their governing bodies, the parents and myself. Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): However, such is the impact of Ofsted inspections The quality of education in my constituency is of huge that many heads see their careers ended because of a importance to me; I am sure that the quality of education poor inspection. I am not saying that every one of those is of importance to every hon. Member. I passionately heads is beyond criticism, and yes, maybe some deserve believe that good education is key to opening up to go, but we are talking here about careers of maybe 30 opportunities in life, particularly in places such as Ellesmere years, ended because of an inspection lasting a couple Port, where in parts of the town, significant challenges of days. It is because the outcome of Ofsted inspections face our young people. Such challenges mean that we has so much impact that ongoing concerns about the cannot afford to have anything but the best. When I lack of reliability and consistency of inspection teams have seen what I believe to be consistent underachievement and inspectors can no longer be overlooked, especially in our schools, I have not been reticent in demanding as, in the experience of the two schools I am talking change. I want to reach a point where Ellesmere Port’s about, those inspections may not really be a fair reflection three secondary schools offer excellent education, so of the head’s ability, the journey that the school has that parents in the town feel they have a genuine choice been on, or the real challenges that schools face. Critically, about where to send their children, and feel confident when a school feels that it has been unfairly treated that whatever school they choose, their children will during an inspection, it has, in my opinion, no effective way receive a quality education that will enable them to make of challenging it, regardless of what Ofsted might say. the most of their talents. One of the first things any parent will consider when Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): choosing their child’s future school is its Ofsted ratings, I am very glad to be able to be in the Chamber for some and I will spend the majority of my time this evening of this debate. May I reinforce some of the concerns addressing the experiences of two local secondary schools that my hon. Friend is voicing? Concerns about Ofsted with Ofsted. Those two schools are the Whitby High have been raised by headteachers in my constituency, School and Ellesmere Port Catholic High School. They including from schools rated “outstanding”. There is a both received Ofsted inspections last year within a few need for a serious look at how Ofsted’s systems are days of one another, and they were given ratings of working, to keep the confidence of schools and parents. “requires improvement”, and “inadequate”. To say that was something of a surprise is an understatement, as both schools are well regarded locally. The Catholic Justin Madders: I thank my hon. Friend for her high school went from “inadequate” in 2013, to “good” intervention. I shall go on to speak about some of the two years later, after the appointment of the current wider implications of my schools’ experiences. I believe head, Mrs Vile. That prompted the then chief inspector she is right; we are hearing similar stories throughout of schools, Sir Michael Wilshaw, to say of her: the country. I would like to hear what the Minister “Exceptional teachers have transformed schools that not so believes should be done about that. long ago were in desperate straits.” I have sat down with the headteachers from both In June 2015, senior inspector Joan Bonenfant said of schools on numerous occasions to talk about these her: inspections and heard from them at first hand about the “Outstanding leadership provided by the inspirational, dedicated appalling, horrific way in which inspections have been headteacher has been the impetus to rapid improvement.” handled. I have heard about the devastating impact that Mrs Vile also received the Cheshire Headteacher of the that has had on staff morale. Good teachers have felt Year award a few years ago. compelled to resign as a result of the findings, prompting Whitby school’s last two section 5 inspections prior expensive, time-consuming recruitment processes. Their to the most recent one saw it achieve good ratings in replacement may not be a better person. both, with an additional section 8 inspection of personal, I have heard how those heads, with a combined total social, health and economic education being judged of over half a century in education, with long-standing, “outstanding”. The head’s—Mr Heeley’s—time at Whitby impressive track records, feel that they have been traduced. high has seen the school previously receive “good” or When I suggested to the heads that being a headteacher “outstanding” ratings; he has been the head for nine of had many similarities to being a football manager, they his 16 years at the school. He has worked in schools for agreed. The similarities are there for us to see—chronic over 30 years, 20 of them in senior roles. He has served job insecurity, being judged by one’s results when it is on numerous working groups to support education. not a level playing field, and a focus on one’s last He has been a local authority adviser. Whitby High performance, rather on the progress that one may have School is over-subscribed and well respected in the area. made under that leadership. As many football clubs The school outperforms many schools classed by the find, replacing the manager does not necessarily mean Department for Education as “similar”. In 2019, the school’s that performance on the pitch markedly improves. position within the Department’s similar schools data What struck me most, and compelled me to act, was placed it fourth out of 19 schools in the local authority that both heads were relaying to me extremely similar area—hardly a failing school. experiences. I would go so far as to say that the similarities I mention those achievements because, first, I do not were concerning and striking in equal measure. The believe that these heads have both suddenly become bad first major concern they both had was the apparent heads overnight; their records show that they have the predetermination of their inspections. At Whitby, the 439 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port26 FEBRUARY 2020 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port 440 head was informed before 9 am on the first day that the personally, but they are not alone in feeling unfairly inspectors regarded the school as requiring improvement. treated. I do not normally have parents contact me after How can judgments effectively be given before the an Ofsted inspection, but I have had plenty here. They inspection has begun or evidence has been obtained? obviously feel there has been an injustice. The governors Likewise,at the Catholic high school, the opening statement also feel the judgments are wrong, and both the diocese from the inspectors at 9 am on day one of the inspection and the director of education at the local authority have was that the school results were inadequate. The first said that these were the harshest inspections they had question they were asked by the inspectors was whether ever seen. they were an academy. I think that is a very odd The schools know they are not perfect—no school question to ask at the start of an inspection. Both is—but they know where improvements are needed and heads, both very experienced people in education, feel what is needed to deliver them. The inspection regime that the inspections were predetermined, and that, at offers no practical help to address these issues and there the very least, they were carried out in a manner designed is not a specific external budget they can call upon to to justify an already formed opinion, with much relevant deliver the improvements. I ask the Minister: when a evidence and information apparently being disregarded school is told it is not up to the required standard, other throughout the inspection. There were also disputes than replacing the person at the top, what can realistically about what some of the staff said to the inspectors be done to drive improvements identified as being needed? during some of the interviews.In some instances,comments That leads me to the so-called stuck schools. In that were disputed were used as evidence to justify January, Ofsted published research and analysis on inspectors’ judgments. Indeed, there were disputes of stuck schools—schools graded as less than good consistently such importance that some staff felt their words had for 13 years or more. As of August 2019, 210,000 pupils been misquoted or taken out of context and, as a result, were in stuck schools, which means that two cohorts of they felt compelled to resign. children have spent all their primary and secondary There were also distortions of the evidence given to education in so-called stuck schools. Ofsted acknowledged the inspectors. For example, reference to a “large cohort” its role in this and highlighted the need for inspections was in fact one student. This was pointed out in the to provide judgments that schools could actually use to official complaint, but the evidence was withheld from help them to make improvements, but is it not an the headteachers,despite numerous freedom of information indictment of our system that so many children’s entire requests. There was also a serious concern raised through education has been blighted by the failure to drive up Ofsted’s complaints procedures about a potential conflict standards? During those 13 years, the Ofsted inspection of interest regarding one of the inspectors. This concern process has failed to lead to any tangible improvements. was disregarded without further comment. As is normal, Surely that tells us that the approach that inspectors both inspections were led by one lead inspector, but it currently have is not necessarily the right one. seemed that major decisions were being made by another Going back to the schools in my constituency, last inspector. Inspectors refused or were reluctant to meet summer, I went with the heads to meet the Ofsted relevant staff, despite being asked to by the school, and regional director to raise our concerns, which we were in their complaints to Ofsted the schools expressed their promised would be looked into. Following this meeting, general concern that the inspections were carried out in unusually, both schools were quickly revisited by different a hostile and aggressive manner. Those concerns were inspection teams as part of a section 8 NFD—no formal simply dismissed. designation—inspection and monitoring visit. The resulting reports following those visits painted a very different There was also a question about why the inspection picture of both schools. So different are the comments proceeded in the way it did at all, certainly at Whitby, that it has to call into question how both schools could where the pre-inspection analysis had identified that the make such rapid improvements in a few short weeks. school would receive a one-day inspection in February Of course, the original inspection ratings remain in 2019. This fitted with its progress scores for two years place. The subsequent inspections could be viewed as a being positive, with a two-year improvement. Nobody sop to brush under the carpet the concerns raised about has been able to explain why this was changed to a the initial process. Those concerns were at best subject two-day inspection and who made that decision. It to a cursory investigation by Ofsted. No member of displays a total lack of accountability and openness. A staff was interviewed. Given that part of the complaint significant number of schools had better inspection was about the hostile attitude displayed, there were ratings but had worse progress scores. Of course, the clearly matters about which teachers should have been heads challenged this inconsistency but again have not questioned. I think that was the minimum required. been given a satisfactory explanation. They were right to The response from the regional director of Ofsted to challenge this and to say that consistency, reliability and the complaint was anaemic and showed the problem with justice should be cornerstones of the inspection regime. an organisation investigating itself. I understand that an inspector from one of the The heads understandably remain dissatisfied with inspections has been the subject of other complaints or the response. After all, they would not let their own concerns, resulting in at least one headteacher resigning, pupils mark their own homework. They asked the at the highly successful Bramhall High School. This was professional association, the Association of School and a high-profile resignation from a well-respected headteacher, College Leaders, to arrange a meeting with the national who had spent some of her career in Ellesmere Port. education director of Ofsted to discuss their concerns She had successfully transformed a number of schools further. His response was to decline, saying that as the and this was a very sad loss to the system. We have to association had already met the regional director, there ask ourselves: how is forcing someone out of the profession was nothing to discuss. I know that it is possible to with that track record helping the education system? Of complain via the Independent Complaints Adjudication course, I understand that heads will take poor judgments Service for Ofsted, but ultimately the service cannot 441 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port26 FEBRUARY 2020 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port 442

[Justin Madders] percentage of teachers leaving the profession in 2010 and 2014 showed that the lower the Ofsted rating, the overturn inspectors’ judgments, so the result of the higher the proportion of teachers leaving the profession, inspections—which the heads consider to be flawed, and that the rate of leaving the profession was highest predetermined, and not at all an accurate reflection of in schools rated by Ofsted as “inadequate”. As for the their schools—remains on the record. probability of teachers’ moving school, the analysis It is my strong view that Ofsted’s complaints process showed that lower Ofsted ratings were associated with needs to be urgently reviewed and changed. A new and higher proportions of teachers moving to different schools more rigorous process needs to be introduced, with at both primary and secondary levels, with a particularly limited bureaucracy and an independent hearing to high rate for schools rated “inadequate”. Taken together, redress complaints that are upheld. During that process, those patterns show that “inadequate” schools have schools’ reports should not be published. much higher rates of staff turnover than other schools. Such is the crisis of confidence the current inspection Ofsted has become too all-encompassing for many of regime is engendering, a grassroots organisation, the them. Headteachers’ Roundtable, has issued a call to “Pause The Ofsted framework has become the means by Ofsted”, as has happened in Wales, while a review takes which every aspect of school life has to be considered. place to ensure that schools’ accountability systems are “What would Ofsted say?” is all too often the key fit for purpose. The call has been supported by the question asked by those making strategic decisions in National Education Union’s leadership council. Paul schools. As we have heard, its power is all-pervading, Whiteman, the General Secretary of the National and its judgment is final, even when—as I believe I have Association of Head Teachers, has said that set out here—there are serious questions to be asked “significant reform of inspection is needed”, about its methods. and the NAHT’s national executive committee will be It is more than 25 years since the current accountability discussing the call from the Headteachers’ Roundtable system of Ofsted inspections and school performance at its executive meeting in March. tables was introduced, so this seems an appropriate Headteachers are saying that the current regime moment to undertake a systematic review of the system fails to take into account the individual circumstances to ensure that we have in place the best means by which of their schools, and I am sure both heads in this case to continually improve all our schools. Accountability would say that their experience was an example of cannot be an end in itself. It should and must lead to the systemic disadvantage faced by schools serving poorer improving schools, particularly those serving our most communities. Ofsted has known about the issue for disadvantaged communities. I cannot see how the a number of years, but has failed to find a way of inspections that my local schools had to endure have addressing it effectively.Knowing the effects of high-stakes helped them to improve. They know the areas that they accountability on retention, especially in those same need to work on; what they need is support and extra schools, we must ask ourselves whether the current capacity, not quick headlines and blame. system is exacerbating those disadvantages, and whether I know that those ratings cannot be changed. However, such public flagellation is really the best way to improve I urge the Minister to give serious attention to the many school performance. and widespread concerns that have been raised about School leaders’ and teachers’ jobs, and sometimes Ofsted, and to consider urgently how we can introduce their whole careers, can be ended because of Ofsted’s a system that allows legitimate concerns to be independently inspection grades, so the watchdog owes it to them to be and transparently examined. consistent, fair and transparent when deciding its ratings. It has been said that the high-stakes nature of the 7.44 pm inspection system is preventing schools from getting on The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): I with improving the lives of their staff and students should like to start by congratulating the hon. Member because they must always give priority to what might be for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders) on looked at in an inspection, such is Ofsted’s all-pervading securing this important debate.I know that he is particularly influence. Some people have even called the inspection passionate about supporting schools in his constituency, regime pernicious. That is not a word to be used lightly, and he has raised these concerns with the previous and it is one that should cause us to question seriously Secretary of State and with the Department in the past. whether the current balance is right. I also know that he shares the Government’s ambition What some call the pernicious impact of an unfavourable that every state school should be a good school, providing inspection can often lead to a head quietly leaving and a world-class education that helps every child and young the system losing a good school leader. How does that person to reach his or her potential, regardless of help the school to improve? Is the balance between background. Since 2010, the Government have worked accountability and capacity building wrong? We know hard to drive up academic standards in all our schools, that recruiting and retaining the best staff is a challenge and we continue to provide support to those schools at the best of times, so hearing that one of the biggest that require it most. Nevertheless, it is important to reasons for people to leave the profession is the impact recognise that some schools are still on a journey of of an inspection should give us cause to question whether improvement. Those schools continue to benefit from that balance is right. the Government’s commitment of support and they are A 2017 report by the National Foundation for the focus of the Government’s school improvement Educational Research on teacher retention and turnover objective. found that the most important school-level factors We have introduced the English baccalaureate school associated with leaving the profession and moving school performance measure, consisting of GCSEs in English, were Ofsted ratings and school types. Analysis of the maths, at least two sciences, history or geography and a 443 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port26 FEBRUARY 2020 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port 444 language. These subjects form part of the compulsory raised by Ofsted. The Government have launched a curriculum in many of the highest-performing countries number of programmes. For example, we fund 37 maths internationally, at least at the age of 15 or 16, and they hubs to spread evidence-based approaches to maths ensure that young people keep open the widest opportunities teaching, including the new Cheshire and Wirral Maths for the next stage of their education. Since the EBacc Hub, led by Our Lady of Pity RC Primary School and performance measure was first introduced in 2010, the Alsager School. Part of the maths hubs’ work nationally proportion of pupils entering it has increased from includes delivering our £76 million teaching for mastery 22% in 2010 to 40% in 2019, but in Cheshire West and programme, which aims to reach 11,000 primary and Chester, the hon. Gentleman’s local authority, 48% of secondary schools by 2023. The programme focuses on pupils entered the EBacc. The Government’s ambition building a deep understanding of mathematics throughout is that 75% of year 10 pupils will start to study GCSEs primary school and into key stage 3. in the EBacc combination by 2022, and that 90% will The Government’s commitment to supporting young by 2025. people across the entire curriculum is recognised by High standards have been a key focus of our reforms other funding. For example, we have put nearly half a since 2010, but we recognise that there is still work to be billion pounds into funding a range of music and done and we remain committed to ensuring a sustained cultural programmes, including music and education improvement in standards in our schools. While the hubs. Wealso launched a four-year computing programme proportion of secondary school pupils eligible for free supported by £84 million of Government funding. Through school meals in Ellesmere Port is similar to the national a National Centre for Computing and a national network average, rates vary among schools in the hon. Gentleman’s of 34 computing hubs, we are supporting schools to constituency. He raised the issue of Ellesmere Port deliver the reformed, knowledge-rich curriculum. Catholic High School. As he knows, it was inspected in The hon. Gentleman rightly focused on secondary March 2019 under the old Ofsted inspection framework, education, but I want to take the opportunity to recognise and it was found to be inadequate. When a local authority- the performance of primary schools in his constituency, maintained school is judged inadequate by Ofsted, the which is reflected by Ofsted’s judging the majority to be Secretary of State has a legal duty to issue an academy good or outstanding. In England, phonics performance order to convert the school into a sponsored academy. has significantly improved since we introduced the phonics Each school is assessed on a case-by-case basis, and we screening check in 2012. At that time, just 58% of work with trusts, sponsors, local authorities and dioceses six-year-olds correctly read at least 32 of the 40 words to find the best plan for the school and give it a fresh in the check. In 2019, that percentage increased to 82%. start with a strong trust as soon as possible. One of the Government’s top priorities is giving all Although it is a priority to improve standards as young people the best start in life—even before they quickly as possible, it is also important that time is begin school. It is why we are committed to improving taken to ensure that the right solution is found for the access to early years education and supporting parents school and its pupils, parents and community. In the to improve their child’s life outcomes. case of Ellesmere Port Catholic High School, we are Five academy trusts operate in Ellesmere Port and continuing to work with the diocese of Shrewsbury and Neston, and only seven primary and secondary schools the local authority to identify a strong sponsor. As the are academies within the five trusts. That equates to just hon. Gentleman will appreciate, in the case of voluntary- 20% of schools in the constituency. At secondary level aided schools, the diocese has an essential role to play, specifically, there are only two academy trusts: the in line with the memorandum of understanding on Frank Field Education Trust and Neston High School, Church schools. In the interim, school improvement which is a single academy trust. It is clear that schools’ support from Loreto Grammar School is being funded appetite nationally to convert to academy status remains, by the Department. Whitby High School is a local with the number of academies growing from 200 in authority-maintained school that was inspected in February 2010 to over 9,000, including more than 500 new free 2019, again under the old inspection framework. It was schools. Today, more than 50% of pupils in state-funded found to require improvement, and it is now receiving schools study in academies. As the hon. Gentleman school improvement support. will know, where an academy is underperforming, the The hon. Gentleman raised the issue of Ofsted. Of Department will move to intervene and assess the trust’s course we always continue to keep these issues under capacity to improve standards. review, but as the independent inspectorate, Ofsted Wehave a range of school improvement offers, including plays a vital role in providing a rounded assessment of a programme offering support to schools meeting certain school and college performance. That role has helped to criteria involving their Ofsted judgment and key stage 2 raise standards in our schools.Ofsted is directly accountable or key stage 4 outcomes. Such schools receive free to Parliament, and the vast majority of inspections go advice from a national leader of education to help them without incident. Ofsted has, as he said, a quality identify and access school improvement resources, and assurance process and a complaints procedure to deal the hon. Gentleman’sconstituency contains both providers with those rare instances when things do not go according and recipients of that support. The offer is supplemented to plan. As it is an independent organisation, I always by emergency improvement funding, which supports say to hon. Members on both sides of the House who schools facing unexpected challenges. The emergency have concerns that they should raise them directly with school improvement fund has directly funded support Ofsted, as he and the school have done. for two schools in the Ellesmere Port and Neston area, I want to touch on the Government’s support benefiting both Ellesmere Port Church of England programme. When a school is put into “requires College and Ellesmere Port Catholic High School. In improvement”, we offer it a whole raft of school total, funding activity worth over £155,000 has been improvement measures to help to address the concerns provided by local effective school leaders. 445 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port26 FEBRUARY 2020 Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port 446

[Nick Gibb] funding and advice from local experts and experienced headteachers, is available to help that school secure a In conclusion, I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s good or outstanding rating at the next Ofsted inspection. support for this issue. He has raised some important Question put and agreed to. concerns, which have been raised with Ofsted, and I hope he accepts that we have heard them and we take them seriously. I hope he also understands that, when a 7.53 pm school requires improvement, a raft of support, including House adjourned. 83WH 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 84WH

crime crisis. We had repeatedly been told anecdotally Westminster Hall that school exclusions were contributing to a feeling of abandonment and hopelessness among young people vulnerable to crime. There is a correlation. Exclusions Wednesday 26 February 2020 have risen by 70% as knife crime has reached the highest levels on record, but it is not enough simply to draw [MR PETER BONE in the Chair] those parallels.

School Exclusions Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. On 9.30 am the point about the spike in figures, between 2000 and Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab): I beg to move, 2010 there seemed to be a welcome dropping off in the That this House has considered school exclusions. number of exclusions. Does the hon. Lady agree that we need a fundamental re-examination of why there has been It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, a spike in the past four or five years, to try to get figures Mr Bone, and it is super to see the Minister and shadow down again, for the reasons she has articulated? Minister, and many other Members, here today. I want to thank the hundreds of members of the public who sent in responses for the debate, for their views and Sarah Jones: That is absolutely right, and the peaks thoughts. I also pay tribute to the Select Committee on and troughs in the numbers of school exclusions pretty Education, the Children’s Commissioner for England much mirror those for knife crime. Weneed to understand and the many charities and organisations that have why those things are happening and actively work to done so much in the relevant area. On the day after the reduce the current peak in school exclusions. Marmot review, it is timely that we should be looking at The all-party group, supported by Barnardo’s and one element of inequality in society that is moving in Redthread, spoke to young people across the country the wrong direction, and that we need to try to shift: the who had convictions for knife offences. They told us increasing number of school exclusions. that being excluded had left them with more time to Soon after I became an MP, a distraught mother spend on the streets, getting into trouble. We sent a came to my constituency surgery. Her son, who was on freedom of information request to local authorities, to the way to being diagnosed as autistic—we all know get a better understanding of the state of provision for how long the diagnosis can take—had been doing well children who are excluded. The research revealed a at school, but when he had come back after half term crisis in support for excluded children. We analysed lots of changes had been made to the classroom. He evidence from organisations such as the Institute for was unsettled by that and ended up demonstrating Public Policy Research and The Difference, charting the behavioural issues over a period of a week. He was worrying rise in off-rolling and “grey exclusions”, and permanently excluded from school as a result. He was from the St Giles Trust, whose work with victims of five years old. I found it utterly extraordinary. county lines exploitation drew a direct link to those who The boy’s mother had the wherewithal to come to her were excluded from school. MP and find a charity to help support her. She managed We know that the public are concerned about the to overturn the decision on appeal. She also happened issue. Barnardo’s polled the parents of children under to be a black woman. She sat in my surgery and said, “I 18 and found that three quarters believe that children do not want my son to be another one of those black who are excluded are more at risk of involvement in boys.” It was horrifying, and I subsequently learned knife crime. Children have not got 70% naughtier since that it was not an uncommon example and that there is 2012; something has gone wrong, and it is leaving a huge problem. There has been a 70% increase in vulnerable people exposed to involvement in crime. My permanent exclusions since 2012, and just 1% of children hope today is that the Minister will listen to the evidence who are permanently excluded get a good pass in maths that the all-party group has collected, and the testimony or English at GCSE. of other Members in the debate, and agree to take some Of particular concern to me is the link to the epidemic of our recommendations forward. of serious youth violence, which has left hundreds of I will quickly look at the statistics. The latest set of young people dead on our streets in recent weeks. In data is for England in the year 2017-18, when there were Croydon there was a review of 60 cases of serious 7,900 permanent exclusions—that is the 70% increase violence—60 young people who were either victims or that I mentioned. The highest levels were in Redcar and perpetrators of crime. Of those 60 children, every one Cleveland, and the highest levels for fixed-period exclusions who was convicted of a crime had been excluded from were in Hartlepool. Half of all excluded children have school, and one in three had been excluded in primary special educational needs,yet support for special educational school. We disagree on many things in this place, but I needs has undergone some of the biggest cuts. According think we can all agree that our children deserve the best to 2019 figures, it is estimated that there have been cuts start in life, and that no child deserves to be left behind. to SEN funding of 17% per pupil since 2015. The SEN I secured the debate because too many children do not type most affected by exclusions were people in the get that start, and too many are being left behind. I fear social, emotional and mental health categories. that the draconian language coming from the new Government may make the problem worse, not better. Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): Today’s debate follows a report by the all-party My hon. Friend referred to the exclusion of children parliamentary group on knife crime on the link between with autism. Another issue is attention deficit hyperactivity violent crime and school exclusions. We set up the disorder. People with ADHD are over-represented in all-party group in 2017 to develop solutions to the knife the prison population. The Mayor of London is investing 85WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 86WH

[Bambos Charalambous] officially permanently excluded pupils; the true number is around 50,000, with the growing use of managed £4.7 million to tackle school exclusions via the violence moves and off-rolling that, again, many of us will have reduction unit. Does my hon. Friend agree that the heard about in our case load. The report by the St Giles Government would do well to follow his example and Trust that I referred to earlier was commissioned by the invest more in support for schools and for vulnerable Home Office. It looked at the issue of children running children? drugs between London and Kent, and found that 100% of those involved were not in mainstream education; Sarah Jones: My hon. Friend has anticipated something they were either in AP or not in any form of education I was going to say later, which is that many organisations at all. are pushing against the tide and trying to address those The Mayor of London produced research that found difficult issues. that excluded pupils are particularly vulnerable to There is a link between children’s family income and exploitation and criminal gangs, with nine out of 10 young exclusion: the worse off a child is economically, the people in custody in London having been excluded. more likely they are to be excluded. Children who are Research by the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime eligible for free school meals are four times more likely indicates that pupils in alternative provision are more to be excluded. There is a link with ethnicity: rates are likely to know someone in a gang or who carries a knife higher among mixed-race and black pupils. There is a than those in a mainstream setting. Professionals giving link with gender: males are more than twice as likely to evidence to our all-party group believed that criminal be excluded as females. There is also a link with geography: gangs are aware of how school exclusions can increase the rate of permanent exclusions for the most deprived vulnerability and are seeking to exploit this fact. We areas is higher than for the least deprived ones. We even heard about pupil referral units where criminals know that there is a link to what then happens in future would wait outside and ask people if they wanted to be life: 42% of adult prisoners and 90% of young offenders involved in county lines as they left the unit. were excluded from school. Of course, those strong correlations do not prove At the same time as the number of exclusions has that school exclusions are causing knife crime. The increased, the number of pupil referral units and alternative fact that someone is excluded does not mean that they provision academies and free schools has decreased. will become a criminal, and school exclusion is often a The number of APs has steadily fallen, from 349 in symptom of vulnerability for many years throughout 2013-14 to 328 in 2017-18, yet the number of pupils has their life. However, there is a common thread running risen year on year. The number of fixed-period exclusions through all the vulnerable children who are being excluded. in those schools has risen dramatically, from 15,500 in There is a great deal of commonality between them, 2013 to 26,500 in 2017, suggesting a growing inability to because of the issues they face, and those who carry cope with the pressures internally. knives. They are not getting the support they need from a system that is catastrophically failing them. On the issue of knife crime, there were 44,771 offences in the year ending September 2019. That is the highest The Timpson review was released last May, but the figure on record, up from 23,751 for the year ending Government are yet to act on any of its findings. The March 2014—an 88.5% increase over that period. For review had several important findings that chime with the year ending March 2019, juveniles—those aged those of the all-party group, particularly on off-rolling 10 to 17—were the offenders in one in five cases. and the quality of alternative provision. I am sure that the hon. Member for Eddisbury (Edward Timpson) will I want to say something about our research on the want to go through that in more detail, but suffice it to link between knife crime and exclusion. Barnardo’s say that it is disappointing to see the lack of action on surveyed all local authorities in England, 80% of which such a crucial issue, having been presented with so responded, and discovered that one in three councils many clear recommendations from that report and our have no vacant places in their pupil referral units. Even all-party group. where there is space, there is a postcode lottery in The previous Education Secretary, the right hon. relation to the quality of support provided. Nationally, Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), said in almost one in five spaces are in alternative provision 2018 that he would not rule out legislation to ensure that Ofsted has rated inadequate or requiring improvement. more accountability for schools that permanently exclude It is likely that pupils who are not being educated in children and place them in alternative provision. However, the state sector are being educated in non-maintained there have been no changes to school exclusions legislation provision and, as many of us will have seen in our case in England in the past 12 months. The Government said load, families are sometimes strongly encouraged to in response to the Timpson review that they would home educate. The alternative providers may be offering launch a consultation, but that consultation has yet to quality provision—many of them do—but there is also be launched. They also said in their response that they the problem that many of them are not full-time, breaking would rewrite their guidance on exclusions and behaviour the statutory obligation to our young people. Every and discipline, which they are yet to do. excluded child is legally entitled to full-time education in alternative provision, but our investigation found James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op): I that that is not happening, with some excluded children congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate on getting as little as two hours’ schooling a day. such a vital issue. Schools such as Northolt High School The system is at breaking point, and not just because in my constituency want to keep the number of exclusions of the 70% rise in official exclusions. Research from as low as possible. They know the importance of that the IPPR and The Difference revealed that the number and they want to do it in a positive and inclusive way, of children in AP is five times higher than the number of but they need funding. The school has submitted an 87WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 88WH expression of interest to the Excluded Initiative, which those they exclude. All excluded children must have the John Lyon’s Charity is running with the Evening access to the full-time education to which they are Standard and others, to fund their inclusion programme. legally entitled, which many do not currently get. Northolt High School should be strongly commended All education providers must have the funding and for taking that initiative, but I am concerned that such backing they need to support vulnerable children, and an important programme may only go ahead if it schools must be recognised for the central role they play succeeds in getting charitable funding through a scheme in a multi-agency response to keeping children safe, that will no doubt be overbid. If the school’s bid to that with funding to support that work. Everyone working initiative is unsuccessful, would she join me in urging in the education sector must be trained to understand the Minister to commit to meeting its excellent headteacher vulnerability and trauma. I have been on trauma training, and others who may miss out on such bids, to see and it really does change the way you view a child; whether other funding can be found to support their anger is a cry for help, and understanding the issues is plans? enormously useful for teaching. Schools should be supported to focus on prevention and early intervention, and every council should have a leader responsible for Sarah Jones: I know that the Minister is always very children excluded from school. obliging in agreeing to meetings, so I am sure he will do that. My hon. Friend makes a good point about the We know these things can be done. In Scotland only Evening Standard campaign; it is very worthy and greatly five pupils were permanently removed from the classroom to be commended, but it is no replacement for what the in 2016-17, and in South Tyneside exclusion rates have state should be legally providing for our children. fallen by almost 60% over the past 10 years. Wandsworth used to have one of the highest rates of permanent There were warm words after the Timpson review, school exclusions but now has one of the lowest. Schools but the new Conservative Administration seem to lack in my constituency, such as St. Mary’s Roman Catholic any recognition of the link between exclusions and High School, manage to exclude tiny numbers of people crime, and they seem to be worryingly relaxed about the despite a challenging intake and challenging issues. exclusion of children. The Conservative manifesto put My questions for the Minister are as follows. an emphasis on backing headteachers to exclude children Fundamentally, does he recognise the issues that I am and a sinister suggestion of creating secure schools for talking about, and does he want to see a reduction in young offenders, all the while failing to restore the per school exclusions, or is he happy to continue to see an pupil funding that was cut from our schools. increase at this rate? Why are so many vulnerable children A greater emphasis on teachers being able to discipline getting less support than they would in mainstream children, 10,000 more prison sentences in place and schools, especially since in many cases excluded children secure schools for young offenders: these are draconian are exactly the children who need more support? Will he measures to deal with problems that would be far better conduct a review into capacity within alternative provision dealt with by tackling the underlying causes in the first and part-time education, to understand whether there place. It is blatantly obvious that funding cuts have are enough resources to ensure that all pupils who are meant that schools are increasingly unable to properly excluded get the full-time provision to which they are support the heightened needs of students, particularly legally entitled? Given that half of all excluded children those with special educational needs. have special educational needs, what steps is he taking to make up for the vast funding cuts seen to SEN When I surveyed headteachers in Croydon, the vast support? majority had cut SEN funding due to funding issues. It The Education Committee’s knife crime inquiry is no wonder that they are then overwhelmed and so concluded that schools play a central role in providing many SEN children are excluded. As has already been prevention and early intervention through a multi-agency mentioned, there are many organisations, large and response to keeping children safe. Violent crime has small, working against the tide to try to help the situation, doubled in recent years, with more and more young from Another Night of Sisterhood in Croydon—a small people dying on our streets. There is no single causal organisation that works to try to support parents who factor when it comes to knife crime—if there were, we do not know how to deal with potential exclusion—to would have solved it before now. We need to look at this the Mayor of London, who has awarded £4.7 million to epidemic from every possible angle and focus on preventing areas of London blighted by youth violence to prevent crime before it occurs. Exclusions must be a last resort, pupils from being excluded. and alternative provision must be full-time, high-quality I again pay tribute to the Evening Standard’s £1 million and properly resourced. We can cure the epidemic of campaign, The Excluded, which aims to encourage youth violence if we start from the principle that no greater inclusion in schools by funding inclusion units. child is left behind. Some 57 applications from local schools have already been made. The scheme is modelled on what was done Several hon. Members rose— in Glasgow alongside the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit, where exclusions were reduced by 85%, and on Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair): It might be helpful for pioneering London schools such as Dunraven in Lambeth. Members to know that the winding-up speeches have to start by 10.40 am. I will call first those Members who Turning to what needs to be done, our all-party have notified me that they want to speak. group’s investigation concluded last year and made a series of recommendations, which I hope the Minister 9.50 am will look at. Perhaps he would agree to meet the all-party Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): I thank group to discuss their implementation. School rankings the hon. Member for Croydon Central (Sarah Jones) and results must take account of all pupils, including for securing the debate. 89WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 90WH

[Jonathan Gullis] from schools—the poorer young black men with special educational needs who are much more likely to be School exclusions are the last resort for any headteacher. excluded than other groups? In my eight years as a classroom teacher in state secondary schools and as a head of year overseeing the behaviour, Jonathan Gullis: The hon. Lady touches on points attendance and achievement of hundreds of students, regarding special educational needs and disabilities, and exclusions were always the last course of action. I feel a I intend to talk about my support for better quality little uneasy in this debate, because intentionally or not, alternative provision. I certainly do not look at this I worry that it undermines the first-class work done by along racial or gender lines or across class lines, because teachers and pastoral staff in the vast majority of at the end of the day behaviour cuts across all those schools to keep students in school while placing little to different things.I represent a predominantly white working- no emphasis on parents or carers. There is not some class community, where there are students who misbehave excluding spree going on; it is not a decision taken just as much as someone from a black or Asian community lightly. The cost-benefit analysis undertaken by school in a more ethnically and culturally diverse community. I staff is extensive and manifests in many ways. I have do not wish to virtue signal. This is an across-the-board seen headteachers keep in internal exclusion children problem involving people from all backgrounds. who should in fact have been excluded, due to a fear of A child’s environment affects behaviour, so why would triggering an Ofsted inspection and breeding further a school having firm boundaries be a negative? To stresses for teachers, pupils and parents. exclude a pupil is a long, stressful and convoluted I disagree with the premise that school exclusions are process, and the fear of losing an appeal means that to blame for the rise in knife crime. Of course some many schools provide a wide range of support, from young people come from troubled homes and may educational psychologists, peer mentoring, behaviour require extra pastoral care and educational support, but report, positive behaviour report, incentivised reward there comes a point when we must award more agency trips, one-to-one in-classroom support via a teaching to the actions of our young people and show them that assistant, conflict resolution and regular parent or carer poor behaviour has real-time consequences, both at meetings. Those are just some of the many tactics I used school and in adulthood. Weshould unreservedly celebrate in my career to keep a young person on track, but I schools with high expectations and zero-tolerance policies. agree that we must have better alternative provision and Weshould follow the example set by Michaela Community ensure that a wider and more tailored system of support School in Brent and Magna Academy in Poole, both of is accessible to pupils who have been excluded or are at which have excellent Ofsted ratings, excellent results risk of being excluded. I do not want excluded kids to and the highest standards of behaviour. not have a proper education; I want them to be guided, When a child is removed from the classroom and assisted and supported, but my stronger urge is to placed in isolation or excluded, it is because their behaviour protect the education of those willing to be educated is damaging the learning of their peers or poses a risk to and those doing the educating. other students and staff. We have created a culture in schools that means we must try to find an excuse for Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): Given the statistical poor behaviour of young people. It is time we start to evidence about the number of youngsters with special back our teachers, not run them down. It is forgotten educational needs who are excluded, is it not the systems far too easily that teachers spend the vast majority of within the schools—so not the teachers’ fault—and the their time and energy to help and support the 2% to 3% resources available to schools, both inside the school who display poor behavioural discipline, neglecting for and outside, that actually sell those youngsters short? large portions of the school day those pupils who Quite often, their special educational needs are not behave correctly and simply want to learn. properly identified until after their exclusion.

Sarah Jones: I apologise for speaking again. Does the Jonathan Gullis: The hon. Gentleman brings me on hon. Gentleman therefore believe that children have perfectly to what I was about to say. If he will allow me, become 70% naughtier since 2012? Does that account I will go on, and if I do not answer his point he should for the 70% increase in exclusions? feel free to intervene again. The Government must of course invest in alternative Jonathan Gullis: No, I do not believe that children are provision, but schools also need to work collaboratively naughtier. In fact, I think behaviour has improved, across their local areas to ensure that the best possible which comes from having firm discipline within a school. course of action is pursued. Solihull Academy is an Students thrive off boundaries that are set and firm, excellent example of a group of secondary schools and not moveable. In the early part of my teaching across Solihull working together to find tangible, workable career, I tried to be a friend of the kids, which certainly solutions, creating Solihull Academy and making space backfired in my classroom, to the point where I was told in the grey area between mainstream education and to my face to “Eff off” in front of my class. As I SEND education. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s point, developed a firm set of boundaries, I found that my we absolutely have a big issue with children diagnosed classroom reacted much better; the kids behaved because with SEND needs who do not need to be in a special they knew the expectations. It is important to ensure educational needs school but struggle to access mainstream headteachers set a standard that every teacher meets school. Solihull Academy is the perfect example of a across the school, therefore creating a culture. school that in that grey area, where those students can get proper one-to-one support and smaller class sizes, Sarah Jones: Does the hon. Gentleman therefore allowing them to thrive educationally while not feeling think that young black men from deprived backgrounds the pressure they currently feel in mainstream secondary are the worst and deserve their higher rates of exclusion schools. I hope that answers his point. 91WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 92WH

Ian Mearns: Quoting an example of good practice is have the responsibility not just to prepare our young all very well, but I am afraid that anecdotes of local people academically, but to teach them that in life, good practice do not actually answer the systemic failures actions have consequences. across the whole country. In my region, the north-east of England, the number of youngsters excluded from 10.1 am school has gone from about 190 in 2012-13 to well over a thousand in the last year for which statistics are Ms Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab): It is an absolute available, 2017-18. The system is failing, and the lack of pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. resources for special educational needs in particular is Some hon. Members here will know that I have at the root of the problem. spoken a number of times in the past year about county lines and the difficulties facing many young people in Jonathan Gullis: The Government committed to investing my constituency. In my experience, school exclusions £780 million into supporting SEND children. I firmly are a significant event in the awful and traumatising believe that schools go above and beyond. Having spent experience of county lines exploitation. Far too many the vast majority of my career in schools where well of my young constituents in Newham have been subjected over 50% of pupils qualify for the pupil premium and to county lines or its consequences. I am therefore very well over 30% have SEND needs, I can only commend grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon the actions that have been taken. Obviously I cannot Central (Sarah Jones) for giving us the time and space speak for the hon. Gentleman’s constituency or area, to talk about this crucial issue. but I would be more than happy to sit with him and I think, as my hon. Friend does, that the change of listen to his examples. tune that we have heard from the Government about By utilising smaller classes,encouraging more one-to-one exclusions is truly worrying. I thought that across the contact and broadening the curriculum, extra support House we were moving in the right direction. We had will be accessible and available to kids who need it. the Timpson review and repeated statements by Home Reasons for behavioural and social issues in our young Office Ministers and others with whom I have worked people are widely varied and complex. It is reductive closely on these issues—we often find common ground to claim that vulnerability, exploitation, youth violence and agreement—and I really started to believe that the and abuse will be solved by avoiding exclusions. I have Government were beginning to get it. I was starting to been verbally abused and physically assaulted in front pick up a bit of hope, but that hope was dashed, of pupils in the classroom, in the playground and in because the Conservative party manifesto pledged to front of parents. The job of a teacher is to educate and continue fragmenting the education system with academies to be an example, not to be treated like a punch-bag. and free schools, pledged to Policies and laws are in place to protect our police, “back heads to use exclusions” emergency workers, nurses and so on. If we do not have and pledged, as we have heard from my hon. Friend, to zero-tolerance policies or exclusions, where is the protection expand alternative provision—presumably to cope with for our teachers? the inevitable increase in exclusions that would be the result. Sarah Jones: To some extent, we are not disagreeing. I suspect that the Government know that there is I do not think anybody is suggesting that we ban school already no way in which local authorities can do their exclusions or that they are not a really important tool. I duty and ensure that the local school system is inclusive. do not think I have met a single headteacher who would They are supposed to ensure that no student is excluded think for one minute that exclusion does not need to be without a genuine route back into mainstream education, there as the last resort. The argument we are making is but this Minister must know that, often, once young that there has been a huge increase in school exclusions, people are excluded from our schools, there is absolutely that there is a reason for that—it has to do with funding no way back—none at all—into mainstream education. and some of the issues about special educational needs I am worried that the Government’s apparent direction in particular—and that we would like to see those will make that situation much worse. numbers go down. Smaller class sizes, more interventions I remind the Minister again why this issue is so in school and more support for kids would all be important to my constituency. Exclusion is clearly linked brilliant. I think that we agree on those things and I with the horrifying rise in violence and the deaths of so would not want to give the impression that we do not, many of my local children on the streets of Newham. but my argument is that the levels of exclusions are When I have talked to the mums of the children who increasing at a worrying rate and need to come down. have been groomed and got caught up in the drug dealing, carrying of knives and violence, they tell me Jonathan Gullis: Yes, I find that I normally agree with loud and clear—they will tell anyone who wants to hon. Members on both sides of the House on what we listen—that their son’s exclusion from school was a want to achieve; we just disagree on the method by tipping point. It did not create the problem, but it made which we want to achieve that. it worse—it made it completely worse. I do believe that one issue is attendance. The reasons I talk to parents and young people and I am clear why kids are not attending school are often overlooked that the bad behaviour comes as a result of real and in this context, but again my emphasis is on the young unimaginable fear. It comes from seeing things and people’s parents and carers, who in my opinion are knowing things that I would not want to see as an adult. failing to provide the necessary education outside the They have seen people stabbed or shot, or their friend school grounds, which undermines what is then done in has been stabbed or shot. The fear that they experience the classroom by the teacher. In the real world, there are is real and has real causes. The world around them is real consequences. I believe that our educational facilities frightening and hostile—it is terrifying. They do not see 93WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 94WH

[Ms Lyn Brown] Some of the children believe that they are actually involved in an alternative economic model. They have the police or other adults around them as able to seen their mums and dads going to work and doing two protect them. They do not think it is possible to protect jobs—the lowest quarter of wages in my constituency them, so they have to protect themselves. They have to does not cover the lowest quarter of rents in my find coping mechanisms, and sometimes that involves constituency. They have seen the adults around them going along with the person who is abusing, manipulating basically with nothing. Then we exclude them from and grooming them, because they see no alternative. If school, and we know that there is no way back into collectively we do not protect them, we do not understand education, so what do they do? They think that there is that they are acting out of fear and we simply punish only one way forward for them, and that is to carry on. the behaviour rather than dealing with the root causes, We are basically giving the groomers an endless supply we will make things worse. There is no doubt about of victims. The kids get off-rolled—it happens illegally, that. The young person understandably will not trust but we know it happens—and then they have nothing to us, and we will fail them. do and nowhere to go. As my hon. Friend said, the St Giles Trust found in I have heard about that from some courageous women, relation to 100 teenage boys who had become involved the mums of the children involved in county lines, who in county lines that every single one of them had been are trying to stand up to the groomers. They have to excluded from school at some point or had spent time in make hard choices—tough choices—that I could not a pupil referral unit. I have spoken before about the make about my children’s future. We need to learn from impacts of exclusion. I have talked about how children their experience, but too few people listen to the experience are cut off from their friends and teachers and plunged of Newham mums. I think that is part of what has into an environment poisoned by gangs and how that gone wrong. makes them accessible to groomers. When a child is The truth is that exclusions ruin lives, create vulnerability excluded, it is not some short sharp shock. It will not to exploitation by organised criminals and fuel violence enable the young person to rethink their life and behaviour in our communities. We desperately need big changes to and make a change, because there is no way back. the school system to achieve a rapid reduction in exclusions. Basically, they are left at the PRU, even more vulnerable If the Government do not reverse course, and if they do to the groomers who are sitting outside the gates. The not listen to Newham’s mums and the experts—please young person cannot escape, because the people grooming listen to the experts and not to the Daily Mail headlines—we them and using them are sitting there, waiting for them will see more lives ruined, more crime, more murdered to walk through the gates. The groomers are really children and more traumatised communities with wounds clever: I have spoken to mums who told me how the that take a very long time to heal. groomers managed to manipulate their child into getting excluded in the first place, because it made access to the child even easier. 10.10 am If a child is excluded, alarm bells will not ring because Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): It is a of truancy. Teachers who have known them as they have pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I been growing up in the school will not see that their thank the hon. Member for Croydon Central (Sarah behaviour has massively changed, so an alarm bell Jones) for raising this important issue. It is a pleasure to about the child’s direction in life just is not rung. There follow the powerful and challenging contributions from is nobody to notice that they have several mobile phones, the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan which is often a massive indicator that the child is Gullis) and, in particular, from the hon. Member for involved in illegal drug dealing. West Ham (Ms Brown), who spoke passionately. Let us be clear that the children we are excluding are The rising number of children excluded from school often really quite able children. They are bright and should trouble us all. Increased pressure to concentrate very articulate, and why? It is because they make great on students who can achieve top results, to seek prominence salespeople. When it comes to county lines, they have in league tables and to avoid students who are resource the nous to know how to deal with the circumstances intensive, along with the increased independence that and situations in which they find themselves, and they academy status affords, provide both the temptation can chat to their mate and encourage their mate to join and freedom to off-roll and exclude certain students. them. As I said, they are good salespeople, but these are This is morally unacceptable. the children we are leaving alienated, angry and vulnerable. I want to focus on the rising number of students who Then we put these children—they are children—with are effectively excluded: the thousands of students in their challenges and vulnerabilities all together in the our schools with special educational needs that are not same place, and provide easy access to them for the met. It is clear that because of counterproductive people who want to exploit them. Government spending rules, many children are in school As we know, pupil referral units do not provide the but effectively excluded from the support staff and support that vulnerable children need. They are supervised resources necessary to enable them to get the best from for only a few hours a day; the rest of the time, the their education. young person is often unsupervised and on their own. In my 15 years in this place, I have never seen school There is little mental health support, so the trauma that budgets under so much pressure. Headteachers are having the kids have gone through just is not worked on in any to cut staff numbers almost every year and teaching way. There is little chance of their getting back into assistants working with special needs students are most mainstream education. The buildings are basically like vulnerable to the cuts. Teachers are overstretched as it is prisons, but the children we are sending there have not and now they are not equipped with the resources to been accused of any crime. teach those under their care. 95WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 96WH

I recently spoke to headteachers in the South Lakes children with an education, health and care plan. Schools and asked them to tell me about the challenges their are massively disincentivised from enrolling them. We schools face. Almost without exception, they said that see national, systematic exclusion of special educational their biggest challenge was meeting the needs of children needs children. The headteacher of one of the larger with special needs. On top of devastating Government high schools in the South Lakes told me of the real cuts and perverse special needs funding rules, every financial pressure of being expected fund those first school with an education, health and care plan must 11 hours of an education, health and care plan out of find the money from its own budget to fund the first their school’s general annual grant funding. That, on 11 hours of support. That means the Government are top of the Government cuts to the school’s overall effectively punishing schools that do the right thing by per-pupil funding, means that it has no reserves or slack taking children with special needs and rewarding schools from which to provide this support. It is not alone. This that say to parents, “I am sorry, but we cannot really is a pattern right across south Cumbria and beyond. I support your child here”—an exclusion in all but name. see it every week as I visit schools and listen to our Cuts in support staff have left teachers isolated in teachers. supporting children’s needs in the classroom. St Martin The special educational needs co-ordinator at Cartmel & St Mary Primary School in Windermere described to Primary School told me that the local authority me the extremely high criteria set to qualify for an recommends it as a school suitable for children with an education, health and care plan in the first place. We EHCP. Around 5% of children at the school have one. often see that only those children with the most severe That is significantly above the national average. While additional needs receive any funding support at all; the school expresses its immense pride in its reputation other children with needs are left with no additional for special educational needs provision and its inclusive support. nature, through which it earned that reputation, it is in Many schools in my constituency told me that parents danger of buckling under the financial pressure that must contend with incredibly long waiting lists for a falls on its shoulders alongside the usual strains on a special educational need referral, followed by delayed small school’s budget. assessments due to a lack of educational psychologists. Cumbria is as vast as it is beautiful. In rural communities Children are then often refused support, irrespective of such as ours, the alternative options, which a child in a their evident need. Schools in Cumbria, therefore, have more densely populated part of the world might enjoy, to find the resource to support the significant numbers do not exist. The head of Langdale Primary School of children who are in limbo waiting for an assessment, described how for many pupils the available special who have needs but do not have an EHCP, and who schools require travelling extreme distances. She wrote may never get one while at their current school. in some distress that, despite the incredible hard work and enthusiasm of her excellent team, their ethos—to The situation results in exclusion within the classroom. be centred wholeheartedly on individual children—was Children fall behind and feel isolated from the rest of coming under significant strain. the class, because they are not being provided with the adequate support to learn and develop. As the attainment I am grateful to all the headteachers who contacted gap grows, children can become frustrated and despondent, me—many more than I have had time to reference fostering negative attitudes to school. There is a real today.They are all hard-working, enthusiastic and caring, danger that they will disengage entirely, exacerbating and so are their staff. I am incredibly proud of them, the problem further. Those are often the children who but they are desperate. They are outstanding professionals end up being off-rolled and formally excluded later in who love their jobs and schools, but Government funding their school career. has put them in an impossible position. When we talk about exclusion, the finger is often This week I have been supporting the parents of a pointed at school leaders. However, those are people child in my constituency, whose school was unable to driven to make a difference. In the lives of the children support them. The school lacked the funding to meet of Cumbria, whom they serve, the school leaders are the evident needs of this child. The waiting list for an the most heartbroken and outraged by how they have EHCP meant that resources were so far from becoming been stripped of the ability to meet the needs they know available that the school has had to say that it cannot they should and to support those children in the way do what it knows it needs to. The parents’ distress is they know they should. I stand here on their behalf to immense. I am angry on their behalf. Their child say that it is not good enough. That must change for is effectively excluded from school because of stupid our children, our teachers and parents. penny-pinching rules. This is unacceptable. Teachers and the children they are so desperate to care for are In effect, the Government are excluding children with being failed. special educational needs from having the best education, while systematically penalising the schools that do the Many children also face exclusion before they even right thing. That must change. I challenge the Minister get to the classroom. Manychildren with special educational to ensure that all funding to support children with needs bring vibrant and valuable contributions to the EHCPs is delivered centrally and does not come from whole school, their classes and their peer groups. That the school’s own budget; that there will be a speeding up should be valued and encouraged, but in reality the of referrals for EHCPs and their delivery; and that system makes catering to their needs feel like a pressure children with additional needs are not excluded before and burden on schools. That is completely at odds with they even start. society’sclaim to champion diversity and value individuals regardless of their ability. 10.29 am The Government are effectively demoralising our Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab): It is a pleasure teachers and letting down our children, because schools to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I begin by must foot the bill for those first hours of provision for thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon 97WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 98WH

[Marsha De Cordova] in his seat. Those behaviours are unavoidable for someone with ADHD, and Jacob was soon forced into a reflection Central (Sarah Jones) for securing this important debate room, where he was forced to sit in silence for large and for the important work she has done as chair of the chunks of the day. The refusal to make any reasonable all-party parliamentary group on knife crime. Since adjustments for Jacob’s behaviour in school has resulted 2012, the number of school pupils being permanently in extreme anxiety for both Jacob and his parents. How excluded has increased by 70%. Temporary exclusions, is it acceptable that a young child is being put through where a child is suspended for a fixed period, affect that and being treated in that way? almost half a million children, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Thousands of children have been unofficially Jacob’s parents are terrified by the prospect of a moved from schools, or off-rolled, because the school is permanent exclusion and are worried that he will never failing to meet their needs. A YouGov survey, published get the chance of a decent education. A decent education by Ofsted, found that children were being off-rolled is a human right. Does the Minister agree that it is particularly when close to their GCSEs. In essence, unacceptable that children who are registered with special children are being failed. We do not even know how educational needs are not given the support they need? many children have been off-rolled by schools across Someone with those needs is five times more likely to be the country. permanently excluded. Does he agree that it is time for us to adequately fund SEND provision? There is no question and no doubt that school exclusions are a social justice issue. It is no coincidence that there is We know that the story does not end there. Once a a correlation between child poverty rates and exclusion child is off-rolled or excluded from school, they face rates. They are too high and they are in sync. According exclusion from their communities, from society and to research carried out by the Institute for Public Policy from their friends. Many are placed in what are called Research, excluded children are twice as likely to be in pupil referral units or, as many would call them, prison care and four times more likely to be brought up in referral units. The published Ministry of Justice figures poverty.Despite what the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent show that 42% of prisoners have been permanently North (Jonathan Gullis) said, exclusions disproportionately excluded from school, so it is no coincidence that the impact on black Caribbean boys, who are nearly 40 times soaring rise in school exclusions is coupled together more likely to be permanently excluded from schools with the rise in crime and knife crime in my constituency than other pupils. and constituencies like it across the country. Perhaps most striking is the rate of exclusions for children and young people with special educational Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op): My hon. needs and disability. As a disabled woman myself, I Friend mentions that figure of 42%. Does she agree that benefited greatly from the special educational needs the prison inspectorate report shows that nine out of 10 provision that I had growing up going to primary and young people in police custody have been permanently secondary school, so what is now taking place for those excluded? A report by the London Assembly highlighted children is a scandal. More than 418,000 children with that school exclusions correlate with violence and criminal SEND were excluded in the last academic year; the activity. Does she agree that the Government should majority have been diagnosed with speech and language welcome the Mayor of London’s funding for additional needs and are unable to communicate with their teachers school provision and roll that out across the nation? and support networks in their schools. What is happening is tragic and clearly a result of funding cuts, despite Marsha De Cordova: My hon. Friend is absolutely what the Government may say. Schools are being right. It is time the Government took some leadership fundamentally let down and are fundamentally not from the Mayor of London, who is doing a fantastic able to provide support for those children with special job in trying to address some of the challenges that our education needs. young people are facing, despite the funding cuts The National Education Union estimates that there implemented by the Government. is a £1 billion funding gap in SEND provision for our My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central mainstream schools. Despite what the Government claim raised this issue, but it is shameful that the Government they are putting in, there is still a shortfall. In the have not taken action on the Timpson review. When the London Borough of Wandsworth, where my constituency Minister responds, will he tell us when that will actually is located, a recent Ofsted and Care Quality Commission begin to happen? inspection concluded that SEND provision is in need of In conclusion, I return to the point that I made significant improvement. It revealed that there are currently earlier in my speech: it is no coincidence that during the 170 outstanding education, health and care plan period in which exclusions have risen, child poverty assessments, and that is echoed across the country, rates have also shot up. Countless youth services and where children are being failed and are not receiving provision have closed. Schools have faced billions in their EHCP plans to ensure that the support they need cuts. As the IPPR has illustrated, children in poverty in school is being implemented. are more likely to be excluded from school, and with Inadequate support and provision for disabled children more than 5 million children expected to be living and those with special educational needs means they in poverty by 2022, the problem is set to worsen. are excluded from education altogether. That is happening Disadvantaged children such as my constituent Jacob to my constituent, whom I will refer to as Jacob. He was are being trapped in a vicious cycle. Breaking that cycle diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder requires urgent action from the Government to end the at age 10. When he arrived at his secondary school, his funding crisis in our schools, outlaw the dangerous parents were told that he risked being permanently practice of off-rolling and overhaul our education system excluded if he failed to sit up straight or turned around so that it is open to all children. Finally, we have two 99WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 100WH weeks until the Budget. Will the Government commit easily expressed in the school setting. There is an onus to investing in our young people and our children, on teachers to educate to a high standard and yet the because they are the future? pressure on funding makes that harder than ever. More children are being diagnosed with behavioural issues, Several hon. Members rose— but there is no funding for teaching assistants or specialised teaching aids. Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair): Order. Before I call the It is important that classroom assistants are in place. next speaker—we have two very experienced Members How do we expect teachers to deal with difficult children left—I should say that we have only about 12 minutes, if they are not given support? The only reason why the so it would be helpful if they divided that time between number of exclusions is so low is that we have teachers them. I call Jim Shannon. who genuinely care, many of whom put their own mental health, physical health and wellbeing last in 10.27 am their list of priorities, in order to help children. We cannot pay for compassion, but we can support people Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I will keep to your in their quest to be compassionate; that applies to six-minute limit and ensure that the hon. Member for teachers. Eddisbury (Edward Timpson) has an equal amount of Primary schools in Northern Ireland are carrying out time to speak, Mr Bone. I thank the hon. Member for programmes designed to help children learn breathing Croydon Central (Sarah Jones) for setting the scene, and calming techniques, starting with five-year-old children and it was good to hear all the other contributions. The in P1. As the hon. Member for Croydon Central mentioned, hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) they are an attempt to instil a coping mechanism in referred to his experience as a teacher, which was good children, so they can process their feelings. I ask the to hear in this debate. Minister: are there similar projects and schemes here The issue is twofold. We must consider the very best in the mainland? If not, I believe there should be. The interests of the child in question, but the flipside is that thought process is that the earlier this is done, the we also have a duty of care towards teachers, who have better, simply to help deal with issues in later life. 27 or more other pupils in their classes, to whom they Anothernewprogrammeiscalledthenurtureprogramme. must also provide an education. That scenario is already The Department for Education funds 31 nurture groups. difficult for all involved, and then we add in the parents— Each group has received some £70,000 per year for and it can be a recipe for disaster. I was shocked to hear running costs over the last five years. Funding of £80,000 the hon. Member for Croydon Central refer to a five- per year has also been allocated to the education authority year-old who was excluded. I find that incredible. I am to provide support for these groups. Has there been an glad that the matter was sorted—well done to her for option to provide the nurture programme here in the doing so. It is good to see the Minister and shadow mainland? The funding does not come close to providing Minister in their places, and I look forward to their for all needs. Given that schools ask parents for additional contributions. funding, over and above their school fees for arts and I was a rather rambunctious young man, and many a crafts, it is clear that not many have the ability to pay for broom crossed my back from my 4-foot-10-inch mother. specialised behavioural intervention at an early stage, She loved me, but she also disciplined me with the same which could be when it is most useful. That needs to enthusiastic passion. My hands felt the sting of the be addressed. ruler at Ballywalter Primary School, but that is not how To tackle exclusions, we must provide teaching support things are handled now, thank goodness. at all levels. There should be someone available to work Northern Ireland’s Department of Education publishes with each child who is frustrated because they do not annual statistics on public suspensions and expulsions, understand or have not yet grasped an idea. Support and the figures from the Library show that Northern must not be targeted after a child has managed to work Ireland is not the worst for expulsions and suspensions. their way through the behavioural process, but at the That is good news. Permanent expulsions numbered very start of life in primary school—at the very beginning. only 15 in 2017-18 and the temporary exclusion rate There is a Biblical saying that people reap what they was only 1.4%, so that is good. The higher suspension sow. I believe that if we sow support and worth into rate was for key stage 4 pupils, who were in GCSE children, they will grow and we, as a society, will reap phases. the harvest of young adults able to deal with the pressures The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, of life, thanks to a little support, feeling and help that the right hon. Member for West Suffolk (Matt Hancock), shows they are worthy of attention. has referred to money set aside by the Department of Health and Social Care for mental health issues. Has the Minister suggested that some of that money should 10.33 am be drawn down to help in education? That would be Edward Timpson (Eddisbury) (Con): It is a pleasure important. The Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, to have you in the Chair, Mr Bone, and I appreciate which I sat on in the last Parliament, undertook inquiries your calling me in this debate. into health and education. Wewere aware that in Northern In March 2018, while having an unexpected and, as it Ireland children as young as 10 have experienced mental turned out, well-timed break from Parliament, I was health issues. It is important to address that. asked by the then Secretary of State for Education to The pressures on children and, most especially, on undertake an independent review of school exclusion, their mental health are at an all-time high; the education to explore how headteachers use exclusion in practice authorities in Northern Ireland, as well as here on the and why some groups of pupils are more likely to mainland, have confirmed that. Frustration is often be excluded than others. The review was published on 101WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 102WH

[Edward Timpson] integrated into mainstream schools. The charity The Difference, referred to earlier, is undertaking such work; 7 May 2019, a little over nine months ago. I will not Kiran Gill and her team are already starting to have a repeat everything it contains—it is available in the House strong impact. Library for all to see—but I will take the opportunity I do not have time to go into detail on a number of left in today’s debate to consider what progress has been issues, but I want to flag them with the Minister. They made since its publication. include fixed-term exclusions, the commitment to reduce It is worth reminding ourselves that, despite the the upper 45-daylimit—the equivalent of a whole term—for increase in recent years, permanent exclusion remains a which a child can be out of school and the pernicious relatively rare event. Just 0.1% of the 8 million children practice off-rolling, which is illegal and on which Ofsted in schools in England were permanently excluded in has borne down. It will be interesting to hear what 2016-17; that still means that an average of 40 children further work will be done to make sure that it forms no every day are permanently excluded, with an average of part of our school system. There are also issues around a further 2,000 pupils each day excluded for a fixed managed moves—voluntary agreements between schools— period. As we have heard, permanently excluding a that mean that a lot of children move around our child should always be a last resort, when nothing else school system, sometimes undetected; statutory guidance will do. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for was recommended by my report. Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) that it is right I will briefly touch on the responsibility and that headteachers maintain an unfettered discretion to accountability of schools. The oral statement made by remove children, as long as exclusion from school does the previous Secretary of State made it clear that the not mean exclusion from education. Government were going to fulfil that recommendation. My review reinforced the need for headteachers to Lord Nash, the then Lords Minister, was clear that he have exclusion available as an important tool that forms supported it, although more recently I noticed that part of an effective approach to behaviour management. Lord Agnew was talking about involving multi-academy However, it also found that the variation in how exclusion trusts in providing alternative provision. It would be good is used goes beyond the influence of local context and to understand the current thinking on how we make schools that more can be done to ensure that exclusion is always better accountable for pupils who are excluded. used consistently, fairly and legally. That is important Part-academisation causes a problem for some of the because outcomes for excluded children are often poor—in recommendations made in my report when it comes to some circumstances, as we have heard, they can be trying to define the role of local authorities. In hindsight, catastrophic. it would have been better,either by evolution or revolution, Exclusion should, and often does, help break a negative for us to have completed the academisation of the cycle of behaviour, better protect all children involved school system or decided that local authorities had a and lead to an enhanced prospect of educational and clear role within it. I tried to define that by saying that personal success and fulfilment. It should not be a local authorities should be responsible for vulnerable trigger or contributor to a worsening trajectory of children, such as children in care or children with academic attainment, to the risk of becoming a victim special educational needs. That system could hold true or perpetrator of crime or to prospects of employment in the future and help ensure that there is co-ordinated rather than prison. action around children at risk of exclusion. We know from the analysis in my review that there I ask the Minister: when will work on the accountability are characteristics closely associated with exclusion: for of excluded children be stepped up and shared outside example, children with special educational needs and the Department for Education? When is the consultation those receiving support from social care. Indeed, the on reducing the upper limit of fixed-term exclusions analysis showed that 78% of permanent exclusions were going to happen? How are the Government going to issued to pupils who either had SEN, were classified as continue to tackle and bear down on off-rolling? How “in need” or were eligible for free school meals. A large will the Minister help truly integrate alternative provision part of the solution must be to better identify, at an into the mainstream, so it acts as much as a preventer of earlier stage, those children at risk of entering a revolving exclusions as a recipient? door of exclusions, so we can reduce avoidable and unnecessary use of such a sanction. I know that is what I know that the Minister is very committed to the headteachers want, too. programme. To that end, and now that I have been That is why I recommended, and the Government given a more lengthy opportunity to make myself useful endorsed, a practice improvement fund of sufficient on the Back Benches, I tentatively suggest to him that value, longevity and reach to support local authorities one way to achieve that, for our mutual benefit, would and mainstream, special and alternative provision schools be to re-engage my services with the clear and specific to work together to establish systems that identify children purpose of helping to implement the review’s in need of support and deliver good, effective interventions recommendations by way of a small delivery body. As I for them. Such a system would better utilise the expertise said, I know he is keen to make significant progress on and professionalism within alternative provision. this aspect of school life. It goes to the very heart of the The Conservative party manifesto contained a welcome Prime Minister’s welcome mission to spread opportunity commitment to an alternative provision reform programme. across our country, with education a vital ingredient for With that in mind, I ask the Minister to think not just achieving that. about the capital investment required to improve pupil referral units, which hon. Members have referred to, but 10.40 am about the workforce development required to ensure Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): It is that the best and brightest are working in alternative a pleasure to serve under you, Mr Bone, and to follow provision. That expertise and specialism needs to be the hon. Member for Eddisbury (Edward Timpson), 103WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 104WH who is a fellow Manchester City fan. I am sure that he constituency surgeries are now rammed with parents will be on the edge of his seat tonight for the quarter whose children are suffering in school and cannot access final of the European cup. Governments should walk mental health support services. I do not think that any the walk, not just talk the talk, and that was a clear MP could deny that they are seeing an increase in their offer to the Minister to begin implementing the Timpson case load in this area. I hope that the Minister will come review proposals on this subject. away from this informed and constructive debate, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon reprioritise, and commit to reducing the number of Central (Sarah Jones) on securing the debate, her work school exclusions in our system. as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on knife crime, and her powerful testimony about the five-year-old 10.44 am who was excluded. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Ms Brown) on her work The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): It is a with mothers in Newham and my hon. Friend the pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), who spoke congratulate the hon. Member for Croydon Central about Jacob in particular. These are real human stories (Sarah Jones) on securing the debate. In her excellent of lives that are affected day in, day out. opening speech, she rightly said that we all agree on one thing—that every child in this country should have the Our children must have access to high-quality full-time benefit of a world-class education that prepares them education. The vast majority of our schools want the for adult life and helps them to fulfil their potential, best for their pupils. A small minority engage in poor including children who have been excluded at some practice in excluding and off-rolling. As we have heard, point during their school career. for the children such practices have a devastating, lifelong impact on their chances. I had to question my researcher The Government are committed to ensuring that all yesterday when he pulled out the following statistic, and teachers are equipped to tackle the low-level disruption I publicly apologise to him. The Education Policy Institute and the serious behavioural issues that compromise the found that there were 69,000 unexplained pupil exits safety and wellbeing of pupils and school staff. Ensuring from school in 2017 alone. When he put that fact in that schools are safe and disciplined environments benefits front of me, I had had to pull him up and say, “Are you all students. In 2018, the Department for Education’s sure?” That is nearly one in 10 of the school population. school snapshot survey of teacher opinion found that What is going on, Minister? The number has risen 76% felt that behaviour was good or very good in their by 12% between 2014 and 2017. school. According to recent data from Ofsted, behaviour is good or outstanding in 85% of primary and 68% of We have a duty to protect and nurture the most secondary schools. Although behaviour in schools is vulnerable children in society,but under this Government’s broadly good, those figures show that there is still more regime vulnerable children, who are already at an increased to do to tackle the casual disruption that deprives risk of low educational outcomes, are systematically children of up to 38 school days a year, according to over-represented among those experiencing unexplained Ofsted’s estimates, as well as the challenging behaviour exits from school. My hon. Friend the Member for that can result in permanent exclusion. Behaviour cultures Battersea pointed out that among black and ethnic are set from the top, and the Government are determined minority children the rate of exclusion is 40 times to support headteachers to build and maintain a culture greater. The Government need to recognise the complex of good behaviour in their schools. For example, we are causes of difficult behaviour in their policies and guidance. investing £10 million in behaviour hubs, so that schools Schools should be supported to focus on prevention with a track record of effectively managing pupils’ and early intervention. The hon. Member for Strangford behaviour can share that best practice with other schools. (Jim Shannon) talked about the importance of teacher That programme will launch in September 2020 under support. As a result of the culture that has been created the supervision of a team of expert advisors on behaviour and the huge funding cuts imposed, schools often struggle management led by Tom Bennett. to focus enough resources on wrap-around care for Alongside that, we are reforming teacher training as vulnerable students, clearly resulting in an increase in part of the early career framework, and we have bolstered exclusions. If we are to begin to address the school the behaviour management element in the core content exclusion crisis, the Government must first reverse school for initial teacher training, so that all new teachers will cuts, which they are not doing. be taught how to manage behaviour effectively on entry The Government must also overhaul the assessment to the profession. system. As the hon. Member for Eddisbury said, schools must use the exclusion mechanism consistently. The Edward Timpson: On teaching training, one of my report of the APPG on knife crime, the EPI report, and recommendations was about trauma and attachment my party’s manifesto all recommended that schools training, and really getting under the skin of why some remain responsible for the pupils they off-roll. Schools children are struggling to meet the behaviour standards must be accountable for the welfare and education that we expect of all pupils within our schools. Will the outcomes of all pupils who attend, so that no children Minister recommit to that recommendation, and explain are lost to the system. how he intends to move it forward? Schools must play an important part in turning around the growing number of exclusions, but the issue goes Nick Gibb: I will come to headteachers having to take much wider, and cannot be solved by schools alone. into account the circumstances of pupils before they Cuts in funding for local authority support, which has make a decision about exclusions, and to ensure that been mentioned, and for child mental health services support is available for children who have special educational are affecting the ability to support the children who are needs. I point out to Opposition Members that for the most in need. As Members of Parliament, our Friday coming financial year we have increased spending on 105WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 106WH

[Nick Gibb] has since risen, but it is still lower now than in 2006-07. That is because, as set out in the DFE’s exclusions high needs education by 12%—an extra £780 million— guidance, we expect all schools to which demonstrates our commitment to ensuring that “consider what extra support might be needed to identify and special needs education is properly funded. address the needs of pupils” from groups more likely to be excluded Visiting outstanding schools has shown me that a strong behaviour culture can help children who might “in order to reduce their risk of exclusion.” otherwise struggle to engage in their education to succeed. Sarah Jones: In 1997, the Labour Government inherited Michaela Community School, a free school in Wembley record numbers of permanent exclusions. The level in to which my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent 1996-97 was about 12,000 a year, but by the time the North (Jonathan Gullis) referred, is unapologetically Labour Government left office in 2010, exclusions had strict in its standards of behaviour. The whole institution more than halved to 5,700, and crime fell over that same emits a sense of positivity and purpose quite unlike any period. Does the Minister agree that where we have seen other school that I have visited. In an area of significant reductions in school exclusion, all kinds of other things deprivation, children are brimming with pride at the follow? Where there have been increases in public spending progress they are making. in areas such as education, there have been reductions At Reach Academy Feltham, behaviour is tracked on in school exclusion and in crime. Over the past 10 years, a transparent points-based system called “Payslip”, which and over the past few years in particular, we have seen gives rewards and privileges for good behaviour and increases in violent crime and in school exclusion as deducts points for disruption. The school has a notably funding for our public services has been reduced. low number of fixed-term exclusions, and has not excluded a pupil permanently in the last two years. Nick Gibb: The hon. Lady raises an important point. Analysis has shown that excluded children have a higher risk of being a victim or perpetrator of crime, but Sarah Jones: The Minister is giving some good examples although there is a strong correlation between those two of individual schools, but does he accept our fundamental issues, we have to be careful to not draw a simple causal premise that the 70% increase in school exclusions, and link. The evidence does not suggest that exclusion causes some of the societal indicators of whether someone is children to be involved in crime; what it does suggest is more likely to be excluded, are really significant and that engagement in education is a strong protective need to be considered at national level, not just at the factor for children who might otherwise be vulnerable level of individual schools? to involvement in crime. It is therefore vital that schools and colleges enable all children to achieve, to belong, Nick Gibb: If the hon. Lady will forgive me, I will and to remain safe in education. That is the part played come to exclusions in just a moment. However, as my by the Department for Education in a wider cross- hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Edward Timpson) Government approach to tackle crime and serious violence. pointed out, permanent exclusions are at 0.1% of pupil We will continue to work closely with other Departments, attendance in our school system. including the Home Office, to ensure that young people The approach at Reach Academy Feltham indicates remain safe. that when children know what is expected of them and As my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent how poor behaviour will be dealt with, they are less North pointed out, the focus must be on attendance, likely to display the persistent disruptive behaviour that which research suggests is associated with risky behaviour is still the most common cause of exclusion. As my hon. linked to serious youth violence. Ministry of Justice Friend the Member reiterated, exclusion is an essential research on the educational background of young knife- tool for headteachers to use when a pupil oversteps the possession offenders showed that 83% had been persistently bounds of what is acceptable in a school, either because absent in at least one of the previous five years; overall, of one serious incident or through persistent disruption. school attendance has improved significantly since 2010. This Government therefore back, and will always back, That is why we have put such an emphasis on ensuring headteachers who use exclusion to ensure they have that children attend school. good discipline in their schools, including permanent Headteachers are best placed to judge what extra exclusion where it is used as a last resort. As my hon. support may be needed in their school. Ofsted’s new Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North said, inspection framework continues to include consideration speaking from his eight years of experience as a secondary of the reasons for exclusions and their rates and patterns, school teacher, it is important to protect all pupils and as well as any differences between pupil groups, as their teachers from disruptive or violent behaviour in referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury. schools. He is right: all teachers have the right to teach Inspectors also consider evidence of off-rolling, and and all children have the right to be taught in a safe and they are likely to judge a school to be inadequate if disciplined environment, without danger, intimidation there is evidence that pupils have been removed from or distraction. the school without a formal permanent exclusion, which It is important to put this debate on exclusion rates my hon. Friend has also mentioned as a concern. into perspective. As I said in response to the intervention by the hon. Member for Croydon Central, the rate of James Murray: The Minister has referred to the role permanent exclusions last year was 0.1%, and the longer- that headteachers play in deciding what support they term trends show that the rate of permanent exclusions need to make sure exclusions are as low as possible. I across all state primary, secondary and special schools reiterate my comment about Northolt High School in has followed a downward trend. In 2006-07, the rate my constituency, where the headteacher has applied was 0.12%; by 2012-13, it had fallen to 0.06%. That rate through the Excluded Initiative for charitable funding 107WH School Exclusions 26 FEBRUARY 2020 School Exclusions 108WH to help with some of its inclusion work. If that school is found to be outstanding three years later. What is unsuccessful in its bid, would the Minister agree to unusual about that school is that parents attend with meet its excellent headteacher and others who may be their children several times a week, and in those sessions unsuccessful in their bids to discuss what other funding parents help pupils to make progress with their reading might be found to support their plans? and are taught how best to support their children in their education. As a result, a high proportion of pupils Nick Gibb: I am happy to meet the headteacher in the are successfully re-integrated into mainstream school hon. Gentleman’s constituency to discuss these issues; I after a short placement. That model is currently being always learn something in those meetings, and they can trialled by the Pears Family School and the Anna Freud be extremely helpful. However, I point out that we are Centre in three other AP settings across England. That increasing high-needs funding by 12% and overall school is just one of the nine projects supported by our £4 million funding by 5% this year alone, with a three-year settlement, AP innovation fund, which we established to test the and that school funding will rise to £52 billion by the effectiveness of innovative approaches to improving end of that three-year settlement period. alternative provision, an approach that I know my hon. Nothing I have said detracts from the fact that for the Friend the Member for Eddisbury supports. one child in 1,000 who is permanently excluded, their I am grateful to the hon. Member for Croydon Central exclusion is a sign that something has gone seriously and to other hon. Members for having raised their wrong. Without the right support, vulnerable children concerns about this issue. I assure the hon. Lady and and young people can be left at risk of harm, including other Members that we take this issue very seriously becoming involved in serious violence. We need to offer and are addressing it, including by improving school those children a fresh start—a school that can re-engage behaviour and providing the right support to those at them with their education. For many excluded pupils, risk of exclusion. that will mean alternative provision. Good alternative provision offers excluded pupils a second chance to Edward Timpson: I realise that we are about to finish, develop those core skills and readiness for adult life. but I reiterate my offer to my right hon. Friend the Minister.He may need some time to consider the generosity Jim Shannon: Will the Minister give way? of it, but in the meantime, would he agree to meet me to discuss the implementation of my review, and to write Nick Gibb: I will not, if the hon. Gentleman will to me in advance of that meeting to answer the questions forgive me. Although 85% of state-funded alternative that I put? provision across the country is rated good or outstanding —an increase, by the way, from 73% in 2013—it remains Nick Gibb: I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend. the case that in some areas, permanently excluded pupils He has raised the issue of accountability measures: are not able to secure good-quality AP quickly, increasing expectations for pupils in AP have not been high enough the risk of them becoming caught up in knife crime. in the past, and as part of our drive to improve quality The report on knife crime produced by the all-party across the AP sector, we will consider how we can better parliamentary group chaired by the hon. Member for assess performance and strengthen accountability for Croydon Central emphasised the importance of full-time pupils in AP. We will have more to say on that in due education for all children, including those vulnerable to course. exclusion. The hon. Lady referred to the fall in the number of pupil referral units between 2014 and 2017. Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair): I call Sarah Jones to The facts are that in 2014, there were 371 PRUs and wind up. alternative provision academies; in 2017, there were 351; and as of June 2019, there were 354. Eight alternative 10.59 am provision academies are in the pipeline to open before 2023. Sarah Jones: Very quickly—gosh! I was hoping to Our focus must be on improving the availability of read out a couple of quotes from the hundreds of good-quality AP, so that when a child is excluded from people who sent in amazing responses, but I do not have school, that does not mean exclusion from good-quality time, which is a great shame. I will pass them all to the education. Those children must have timely access to Minister, and will publish them in some way. Children the support and education they need to help reduce are more likely to be excluded if they are poor, have a risk, promote resilience, and enable them to re-engage special need, live in a deprived area or are black, and with education and make good progress. We know that they are then more likely to go into crime. I thank the is possible, because there is excellent and innovative Minister for his response, but— practice out there. One great example is the parent and carer curriculum Mr Peter Bone (in the Chair): Order. I am sorry to cut taught at the Pears Family School in Islington, which is short such an important debate, but time has beaten us. an AP free school that opened its doors in 2014 and was Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)). 109WH 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Government Support for Business 110WH

Government Support for Business Rather than revisit that point, I will turn to my second point about the important role that the Government can play in removing points of friction and knocking 11 am down barriers to doing business. The only way to truly Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): I level up the whole of the United Kingdom is with an beg to move, enterprise-led renaissance. It is only business that will That this House has considered Government support for business. create the real jobs, opportunities and wealth that will It is a pleasure to hold this debate under your make our future school and university leavers look chairmanship, Mr Bone. I declare an interest as a askance at the idea of ever leaving our great northern former member of the boards of Sky and Just Eat. I cities to move south. Investment in infrastructure can also recently visited the US on an all-party parliamentary provide the connective tissue, but it is business that fires group visit in the companyof British-based space businesses. the neurons between the nodes and provides a two-way flow of activity, motion, growth and employment. The timing of the debate is auspicious. It falls in the narrow window of time during which we will decide There is no more productive and supportive infrastructure how to make our way in the world, liberated from the for small businesses than making gigabit broadband a chains and anchors of a protectionist trading bloc that reality by 2025, so I welcome the former Chancellor’s has often poorly served the entrepreneurial and fast-growing commitment of £5 billion for that purpose. We must nature of the businesses with which the United Kingdom rapidly turn plans into action and promises into reality. is blessed. The good ship GB is tugging at its moorings There is no time to waste, with just under 50 months with upward buoyancy and a new captain, my right to go and a huge amount of planning, procurement, hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy construction and connection to be done. I strongly and Industrial Strategy, standing astride its helm. Like welcome the decision by West Sussex County Council my hon. Friend the Minister for Business and Industry, last week to commit funding to projects under its full who is in his place, the Secretary of State has personal fibre programme and to shift that to the next phase of roots that stretch beyond these shores into the overseas delivery for businesses across West Sussex. markets that represent an outsized opportunity to create My hon. Friend the Minister shares my enthusiasm growth and employment for generations to come. for reducing the burden of regulation on small business. To a degree, we have the wind at our backs. Our I do not know how familiar he is with the Better exports are growing. We are the world’s 10th largest Regulation Executive within his Department, but this is exporter, despite not ranking in the top 20 most populous the perfect time to give that initiative a much-needed countries. Our economy has grown for nine straight boost. In a measure that is bound to prove popular with years. We are Europe’s leading destination for foreign its members, he should send it on a round-the-world direct investment, attracting more capital than France fact-finding trip to see the excellent work that is being and Germany put together. But we must not be blind to done in New Zealand, Australia, the US, Singapore the challenges.Weare approaching the end of a decade-long and, although it pains me to say it, France. recovery cycle. Globally, protectionist forces are in the I congratulate the Minister on his new business support ascendancy. We must not repeat the mistakes of growth campaign to bring all the support together in one place built on the shaky foundations of too much debt or at businesssupport.gov.uk, which is just the sort of imported cheap labour. practical measure that business needs. I encourage the Our natural advantages as a location to start, grow Government to go further and to look again at a merger and run a business are immense: we have a world-class between Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and legal system with a strong respect for the rule of law; we Companies House to give business a single online identity sit between the Asian and American time zones; we and a true one-stop shop. have a flexible and educated workforce; and, of course, There is also room for a modern industrial policy English is our own, but increasingly the world’s, language. that is as much about knocking down barriers to scaling In fact, 20% of the world’s population of 1.2 billion fast as it is about picking winners. It should focus on people now speak English. There are more English a small set of opportunities, each capable of spawning speakers in China than people in England. English is multibillion-pound industries, and making sure that the official language of the European Union, the United when we get behind something, we align everyone behind Nations, the African Union and the Association of it, from No. 10 down. Southeast Asian Nations. The world is pregnant with I commend the support that the Minister’s Department opportunity, so what support does business need from is already giving to genomics, artificial intelligence, the Government? space, fusion, zero-emission mobility and quantum In my experience, business needs the Government to computing. With the National Physical Laboratory, the do three things: to facilitate access to markets for our Stevenage Bioscience Catalyst, the Faraday Institution products and services; to remove points of friction and and the Culham Centre for Fusion Energy, it is no barriers to doing business; and to provide the right exaggeration to say that the UK is genuinely world-leading fiscal framework. I spoke recently in the global Britain in each of those areas. UK-based companies are at the debate—as did you, Mr Bone—on facilitating access to heart of the technology that the Solar Orbiter satellite markets. I talked about the opportunity to help the 90% probe, which blasted off into space last month, will of British firms that do not export to do so through carry all the way to the sun. When quantum physicists better market access, more boots on the ground and the world over want lasers with the purest light, they having more of Her Majesty’s trade commissioners, come here. and by expanding the export credit guarantee scheme But others are catching up fast. It is equally true to and getting the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and say that the next 24 months are critical and will determine our aid policy to support British businesses. whether we succeed or the opportunity is lost to us 111WH Government Support for Business26 FEBRUARY 2020 Government Support for Business 112WH forever. As the UK is such an attractive place to do that the Government need to intervene to level up what business, we should be competitive, but have the self- has now become a completely unfair playing field. confidence not to compete on always having the lowest Bricks-and-mortar stores are seeing costs rising at an rate of tax. As those of us who have lived the reality of exponentially high rate, through wages, rent, pensions business know, the burden of tax is about much more and energy, while their frontline sales growth continues than the rate; it is about complexity, certainty and the to contract. By contrast, the internet giants buy in approach to compliance. enormous bulk, lowering costs, and they do not have There is an opportunity to unleash further potential the same cost base as companies in what we term A1 from Britain’s businesses. The World Bank ranks us retail space. eighth in the world for ease of doing business, but only The high street not only employs millions of people; 27th for ease of paying taxes. How have we managed to it also contributes major social and economic value to create, but not to have solved, such complexity? To the country. Boarded up, vacant towns will have a simplify it, we should tax an enterprise’s profits, not its major impact on our health and wellbeing. We should inputs. To use a baking metaphor, we should tax the think of the isolation and loneliness that people suffer if cake, not the raisins, flour and eggs. they cannot go out to the shops and add that social There is an increasing recognition across the House value to their lives. that the current structure of business rates is a burden, Internet sales over the years have rocketed, from particularly for small enterprises. It taxes businesses around 5% when the data was first collected to around before they have had a chance to make their first pound 20% of all retail sales now. That is an alarming rate of of turnover, and penalises those that remain anchored growth. Last July the proportion of all shops on the in their local communities, such as on high streets in the high street that were empty reached 10.3%, the highest smallmarkettownsof Arundel,Hurstpierpoint,Storrington level since January 2015, also relatively recent. and Petworth in my constituency. That has rightly been Every year we see major chains being lost. House of recognised by a series of reliefs for the smallest and Fraser, for instance, was narrowly saved. Many go bust, other particular types of business, but I welcome the and if they do not, the restructuring deals mean that commitment to a fundamental review. I encourage the hundreds of shops are closed instead. Wewitness thousands Minister to be a radical and uninhibited voice for of job losses each year, particularly after Christmas, business in that review, as I shall be. It is my belief that which is a crucial period for many retailers, which either in the 21st century huge benefits would flow from sink or swim after that. unifying the income tax and national insurance regimes and from clarifying once and for all the ambiguities that When an industry leader such as John Lewis, which is lie around employment status. Perhaps the Minister will seen as the bellwether for the high street, is struggling raise that with the Chancellor as well. and announcing further potential job losses, we have to recognise that structural change is required. John Lewis This is a critical subject at a critical time. We may has the luxury of Waitrose, and cash from the supermarket never have such a window of opportunity again. The division enables it to reinvest in the department stores. business leaders and entrepreneurs to whom I speak Most businesses on the high street do not have that. every day have placed their trust in us. We could be at When John Lewis is struggling, we have to recognise the start of a new renaissance of British businesses how hard it must be. seizing and leading in all the sectors that will define the economy in the 21st century; of knocking down barriers All the indications are that footfall is continuing to to enterprise and inspiring a new generation of decline on the high street, potentially at around 2% entrepreneurs in every corner of the country and from every single year. That is pretty depressing news. There every country of the globe to base themselves here; of is a declining customer base and shifting consumer rekindling the swashbuckling spirit and appetite for risk habits; we have all witnessed that managed decline in that saw our ancestors sail over the edge of the oceans our lifetimes. We must act now with some kind of in pursuit of profits from new markets. Or we could fail. intervention to change the playing field before we see We could be too timid in our ambition, too encumbered communities and high streets really lost, and enormous in our thinking and too slow to seize the opportunity. unemployment off the back of that loss. We must be the change we wish to see. Now is the time. What are the suggestions for change? For starters, we The opportunities are tantalising and tangible, and they need to consider some kind of internet sales tax, specifically could be ours for the taking. on online shopping. Great Britain is renowned for its backbone of small shopkeepers. Some kind of online 11.10 am tax would give high street retailers, whose overheads are Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con): The high street high and who employ local people, a better chance of is a passion of mine, given that I worked in retail in my being able to survive. Similarly, some kind of higher home of North Norfolk before becoming an MP, and rate VAT-style tax should be considered. If we do the high street is dying at an alarming rate. That is not nothing, the trends that are already happening in front new, but the decline is continuing year after year, and I of our eyes will continue. In a time when the Treasury is see little in the way of a long-term strategy to deal with looking for ways to generate income, why not consider it. Although I welcome the changes to business rates such changes? They are staring us in the face. and the Government’s £3.6 billion towns fund, I do not We absolutely must tax the internet giants that are feel, sadly, that that is the finished answer. It is a contributing to the demise of our towns and cities by temporary sticking plaster, when major structural change not paying their fair share of tax. Only when we do and reform is urgently required. that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel What we are seeing is a fundamental technological and South Downs (Andrew Griffith) has said, can we shift that has enabled shopping habits to alter through start to support the business rates reductions that we technology. I am not one to stand in the way, but I feel hugely welcome. 113WH Government Support for Business26 FEBRUARY 2020 Government Support for Business 114WH

[Duncan Baker] all other G7 countries except Canada on the World Bank’s “starting a business” list, although I take on People say to me, “Why should the Government board my hon. Friend’s comments about the ease of intervene? It is not their job to interfere in industry taxation, where we do less well. As someone who has change; it is an evolution that we are seeing led by started and run my own business, I can say that the UK technology.” There is a reasonably simple answer to is a great place to do so. that: we have done it before. For instance, we have As my hon. Friend points out, we should remove friction subsidised agriculture for many years, even though the and barriers to doing business and support our companies payments system is now being altered. We now have a and entrepreneurs to succeed. That is why no permission chance to put some kind of support mechanism in place is required to establish a business in the United Kingdom, while retail adjusts. there are no minimum capital requirements, and new We are partly to blame for the situation, because we companies can be registered online within just 24 hours have not sorted out some of the hopelessly lax planning for as little as £12. That is why, as my hon. Friend decisions and policies that we have had over the years. mentioned, only last week we launched a new website, Unfair competition from out-of-town stores has created businesssupport.gov.uk, which brings together information, a further threat to our beleaguered traditional town support and advice for small businesses. It is why centres. Had previous Governments applied a policy programmes operated by the Government-owned British for every supermarket to be restricted to the sale Business Bank are supporting firms with finance. As of of food items, our high streets would have had a December 2019, more than £7 billion has been delivered remaining viable use. Furthermore, the modern practice to support over 91,000 small businesses in the UK, of supermarkets developing instore bakeries, fish counters, including £730,000 to 76 entrepreneurs in my hon. butchery departments and so on has led, through that Friend’sconstituency.Given his energy and how assiduous competition, to many smaller businesses on the high he is, I am sure he will endeavour to meet each and every street disappearing, almost on a weekly basis—particularly one of the 76 beneficiaries of that support. greengrocers. Stringent planning policies must be put in We are working together across Government to create place to curtail some of the supermarket growth that smoother processes and the best environments for business, has led to the demise. and I am pleased to say that we have already gone a The decline of our high streets is a complex problem long way towards integrating the customer interface with a vast array of contributory factors, but the rise of with Companies House and HMRC. The streamlined the internet is at the very crux of it. We have to start company registration service was launched in 2018; it tackling the problem now. To use our favourite term of allows new companies to incorporate and to register for the moment, we need to do some levelling-up of our PAYE and corporation tax through a single portal. As beleaguered high streets. my hon. Friend rightly reminded us, there is undoubtedly more work to be done to reduce the burden of tax, but HMRCis making progress, including through establishing 11.18 am a new VAT registration service. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, We have also committed to a fundamental review of Energy and Industrial Strategy (Nadhim Zahawi): It is the business rates system. My hon. Friend the Member an absolute pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, for North Norfolk quite rightly highlighted this issue, Mr Bone. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for and challenge is important in this area. He is right to Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith) and for say that we need a holistic approach. The Treasury will North Norfolk (Duncan Baker). The quality of provide more details about the business rates review in Conservative Back-Bench Members is clearly incredibly due course, but we have already provided reforms and high. If the subs bench is of this quality, it keeps reliefs to business rates worth £13 billion over the next Ministers on their toes to keep performing. That is one five years. The Prime Minister has announced a towns great outcome of the general election where the Prime fund of over £3.5 billion, including an accelerated £1 billion Minister Boris Johnson led us to that wonderful victory. to support local areas in England to renew and reshape I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel town centres and high streets. Through the taskforce and South Downs on securing this debate. I assure the giving expert advice on how to adapt and thrive, we are House that the Government are committed to supporting supporting local leaders and encouraging them to think business. Of course, seizing opportunities now that we differently about their high streets and to discover their have left the EU is absolutely crucial to that. As my unique selling points. hon. Friend rightly pointed out, we will soon have a new relationship with our European friends, inspired by Andrew Griffith: May I contrast the Minister’s our shared history and values. We will have recovered comprehensive programme of activity that is designed our economic and political independence, which will to improve the lot of small businesses in this country enable us to control our own laws and of course our with the paucity of attendance on the Opposition Benches? own trade—that is clearly what he is so passionate Not a single member of any of the Opposition parties about. We will be able to strike new trade deals with has deigned to grace us with their presence this morning. partners around the world, helping our small and large businesses to export and grow on the global stage. Nadhim Zahawi: It is a shame and disappointing not Hon. Members do not need to take my word for it, or to see any representation. that of my hon. Friend. The Global Entrepreneurship As part of my personal mission to improve the business and Development Institute ranks the UK as the second environment, I am working across Government, including most entrepreneurial economy in Europe and the fourth with the Department of Health and Social Care, on life most entrepreneurial in the world. We rank higher than sciences, which my hon. Friend described as one of the 115WH Government Support for Business26 FEBRUARY 2020 Government Support for Business 116WH real future growth areas for jobs in our country,supporting initiatives, with around a further £3 billion pledged by collaboration across industry, Government and the NHS. industry, including through our life sciences sector deal, With the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local which is part of the industrial strategy. That is one of Government, we are developing plans to level up the 11 deals to drive productivity, innovation and growth regions across our great nation, with business and the across 10 sectors in the UK, from artificial intelligence economy at the heart of our plans. to offshore wind, including a combined investment of My hon. Friend made an astute point about the £3 billion. Today we account for 36% of all offshore importance of regulation and broadband access to business. wind production on this planet, and we plan to go even Our pioneering regulatory regime has made the UK the further. That is this Government’s ambition, and that is go-to location for science, research and innovation for what we will do. decades, and we are absolutely committed to learning My hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk from international best practice. The Better Regulation spoke about the high street. We are committed to Executive has recently invited the OECD to undertake a conducting the review that I talked about earlier, but review of our international regulatory co-operation, the reforms have already delivered the £13 billion that I which will be published soon, but my hon. Friend mentioned. Although I will not deny that there are still makes a good point about getting them on an aeroplane challenges ahead for the high street and for small businesses, to visit places such as Singapore or, dare I say, just there are also fantastic opportunities. We talked about across the channel in France. We are also committed to the towns fund, but local leaders need to be innovative. delivering nationwide coverage of gigabit-capable networks I see that in some local authorities that are returning as soon as possible. The Prime Minister made that people to live on our high streets. For far too long, promise during the election and it was delivered as soon retailers took on leases on our high street but left the as he was returned to office, with £5 billion of public upper parts vacant. We need to do much more to funding to close the digital divide and ensure that rural encourage people to live and work on our high streets in areas such as my constituency of Stratford-on-Avon order to revive them; if people are living there, they will and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel shop there and do many other things. I see it in my high and South Downs are not left behind. street in Stratford-on-Avon, where we are beginning to As well as ensuring businesses across the country think innovatively about how we deliver that—for example, have the conditions they need to thrive, we are supporting with Shakespeare’s school, the King Edward VI School, sectors to ensure UK leadership in the industries of the where the great bard studied and learnt his craft. We future—as my hon. Friend points out, they are critical. have been looking at how we bring international students Our study into tech competitiveness is due to report to into some of the vacant properties to study over longer Ministers this spring. We are supporting quantum with periods in the summer. Again, that would help the high initiatives such as the quantum technologies challenge, street to deliver. providing up to £153 million of innovation funding for I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel industry-led activities. The UK National Quantum and South Downs for securing the debate, and I Technologies Programme is set to invest over £1 billion wish we had a lot longer to debate this issue. We need of public and private investment over its lifetime. to ensure that—across our country, whether it is the We are also supporting life sciences, making a huge Scottish Government or our Labour Opposition—we difference to people’s lives and to the NHS and how take business seriously. Ultimately, it is the lifeblood of it delivers for people. Life sciences is an area of UK the British economy. excellence and personal passion for me, with almost Question put and agreed to. 6,000 businesses, 250,000 people employed and annual turnover of £74 billion. The Government have invested 11.29 am around £1 billion in a host of ambitious life sciences Sitting suspended. 117WH 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 118WH Net Zero Buildings Energy Efficiency Measures: Philip Dunne: I absolutely agree that retrofitting existing Net Zero Buildings housing stock is one of the biggest challenges we face in trying to reduce fossil fuel use in our buildings. Much of my speech relates to that, so I will go on to talk about it. I will not talk about immigration status, but the hon. [MARK PRITCHARD in the Chair] Lady makes an important point when she says that we need sufficient skilled people to do the work right 2.30 pm across the Government’s infrastructure programme. It does not apply exclusively to retrofitting homes, although Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con): I beg to move, that forms part of it. If the skilled tradesfolk I know in That this House has considered energy efficiency measures in my constituency are anything to go by, most earn buildings to achieve net zero. considerably in excess of the Government’s threshold I am very pleased—I would almost go so far as to say requirements, so skilled tradespeople may well still be that it is serendipitous—that for the second time in able to come here as they meet the requirements of the succession you, my constituency neighbour, are chairing points system. a Westminster Hall debate, Mr Pritchard. I hope that I am pleased that there has been some progress in you and other hon. Members will find the subject building more efficient homes over the past 30 years. relevant. It is an important debate for colleagues on Overall emissions from homes have been reduced by both sides of the House who share my enthusiasm for about one fifth since 1990, despite the fact that there are exploring a variety of routes to reach net zero emissions approximately one quarter more homes now. That is as soon as possible—certainly by 2050. One is the ostensibly due to policies to improve boiler efficiency groundbreaking Environment Bill, on which I had hoped and basic insulation in the early 2000s, but progress to contribute in the Chamber. Several colleagues who seems to have stalled in recent years. Now is the time for would like to join this debate are in the main Chamber. this energetic and committed Minister, whom I am Should some of them succeed in arriving before I sit absolutely delighted to see retaining this brief, to make down, I hope you will be liberal in your interpretation his mark by re-energising energy efficiency across the of the rules, Mr Pritchard, and allow them to chip in built environment in Britain. should they wish to catch your eye. Another important feature of today is that it is the Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): I am first day of Lent. I am joining colleagues here and glad that the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned the individuals from around the country in making five Minister’s energy and enthusiasm, because I want to green pledges for Lent: to cut down food waste, to use ask about energy efficiency in social housing. I am sure less single-use plastic, to make more zero-carbon journeys, he is aware that measures such as insulation, window to buy less new and so support local charity shops and glazing and low-carbon heating can be installed very the excellent repair hub in Ludlow, which is open on easily and cheaply in larger buildings. There are some alternate Saturdays, and and to litter-pick. I urge the very good examples of local authorities building low-carbon Minister to join me in following one or more of those social housing and slashing energy bills for tenants. In pledges if he is observing Lent. my constituency, Camden Council has been reducing Yet another important feature of today is this debate, carbon emissions in its housing stock, and it has used in which we highlight the vital need to reduce fossil fuel refurbishments such as Swiss Cottage library to make use in heating the buildings in which we live and work if big energy savings and install solar panels. Does the we are to achieve net-zero Britain. I declare my interest right hon. Gentleman think it should be down to cash- as a property owner, and I refer to my entry in the strapped councils to carry out those innovations, or Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The debate is should the Minister and the Government be playing timely, as last month the consultation on minimum more of a part in investing properly in energy-efficient energy efficiency standards in the non-domestic private social housing? rental sector concluded, and earlier this month the future homes standard consultation ended. Given that Philip Dunne: I am glad that the hon. Lady has raised the Budget is confirmed for next month and the social housing, because I will touch on that in my comprehensive spending review is to take place later remarks. I am sure the Minister will respond to that this year, this is the ideal time for the Government to set point, because there was a clear commitment in the out their ambition to show global leadership in improving manifesto on which we were just elected to provide the energy efficiency of buildings in this country ahead funding for energy efficiency measures specifically in of COP 26 in November. social and affordable housing. I think she will get some good news from the Minister when he responds to the Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I congratulate debate. the right hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. One important measure that we will need to What is the scale of the challenge? The built environment adopt, including in Greater Manchester, is retrofitting accounts for nearly 40% of national energy use and our much older housing stock. That obviously costs approximately one third of UK emissions, but progress money—he is right to allude to the opportunity that the in the decarbonisation of buildings has been limited. Budget presents to discuss that need—but it also requires Enhancing the energy efficiency of the UK’s housing people with skills to undertake the retrofitting work. stock is therefore one of the critical steps in achieving Does he agree that the Government’s new points-based our net zero target. immigration system causes concern about the construction The future homes standard is focused on new builds. sector’s ability to meet the needs of a very extensive The Government have called on the industry to deliver retrofitting programme in Greater Manchester? a further 1 million new homes over the course of this 119WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 120WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings Parliament, with a more ambitious target of achieving Philip Dunne: That has happened where different 300,000 new additions each year by the mid-2020s, so rates of affordable housing were implemented by councils getting the regulations right will have a significant impact across England—in Scotland too,I suspect—and developers on the carbon footprint of millions of future homes. were drawn to the areas with the lowest standards. I am That is good news for the environment as we move to sure that the Government, in response to the future net zero, and for people who are fortunate enough to homes standard consultation, will seek to raise standards live in the more fuel-efficient buildings of the future. across the board, but say that if any local authorities The homes we are building in this and subsequent wish to go further and faster, that will be up to them. Parliaments should last more than 100 years—way beyond That is a risk that we should be able to take. the 2050 target date for net zero. We must ensure that The Government can assess in detail examples of the standard of homes being built now contributes to how we can achieve more effective building techniques meeting that target. It would clearly be perverse and and of the associated costs versus the energy efficiency extremely costly to build homes now that require retrofitting savings. One example from my constituency is in the town to reduce emissions at a later stage. There should be of Much Wenlock. The social housing provider Connexus— plenty of opportunities from technical innovation in it is well known to you, Mr Pritchard—built a housing new build standards to incorporate in the future homes project there two years ago to a passive house standard, standard. I have no doubt that the Government, in their which through designer materials manages heat loss and response to the consultation, will seek to address the airflow. Thanks to that efficiency, the residents save an challenges we face in ensuring homes become more average of £665 a year in reduced fuel bills and energy energy efficient and encouraging new technology and use has fallen dramatically, to the point that many tenants innovation in house building. I would like to see them say that they barely need to turn on their heating. However, include the notion of embedded efficiency in the materials construction of the project carried additional costs. used for construction, and not just focus on the future Connexus estimates that it cost 29% extra to build to a annual running costs. passive house standard compared with standard building I have concerns about some elements of the proposals regulations. The Government could step in to provide that were consulted on. There is, for example, the suggestion further support mechanisms to social housing groups that the fabric energy efficiency standard will be removed, and local authorities to deliver a very high standard of which would make it possible to build less energy-efficient energy efficiency. It will be interesting to see whether the properties and still get them to pass building regulations response to the future homes standard addresses that. by fitting larger renewable energy systems; as a result, I will focus on the scale of the challenge of making properties would become more expensive to heat, which existing housing stock more energy efficient, which, as I could increase fuel poverty. Taken over a large enough mentioned in response to the hon. Member for Stretford area, additional renewable energy capacity might be and Urmston (Kate Green), will by definition require needed away from the new housing, bringing additional the retrofitting of a huge number of properties. Some cost. I hope the Minister will reflect on that. 29 million homes in the UK account for 20% of UK The proposals explicitly remove local authorities’ emissions. According to the Government’s live tables, of right to set higher than minimum energy efficiency those homes, only 20 million have energy performance standards, as higher standards are likely to increase certificate ratings. The remaining 9 million homes are costs for home builders. That would restrict their ability presumably owner-occupied and have not yet been required to set their own ambitious targets to tackle climate to undertake an EPC rating assessment. change, with homes that are sustainable for the future, Of the 20 million homes with an EPC rating, more and remove the incentive for home builders to innovate are rated D than A, B and C combined. In total, almost and become market leaders in energy efficiency. 12.5 million dwellings are rated at bands D to G, compared with just 7.5 million rated A, B or C. That Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) equates to 1.7 billion square metres of space that needs (Con): My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. East to be heated or cooled, which gives some indication of Suffolk Council has ambitious plans to impose higher the scale of the challenge for the construction trade. In energy efficiency standards on new build properties and addition, non-domestic floor space energy performance would be disappointed by what it would see as a retrograde certificates cover a further 688 million square metres in move in favour of developers, which already make large 935,000 properties that are used as non-domestic profits, by letting them off the hook on reducing carbon lodgements, with C and D the most common ratings. emissions. The Committee on Climate Change published analysis about reaching net zero emissions by 2050 and Philip Dunne: I am grateful for that example. The recommended that by 2035, almost all replacement Minister should be willing to show some flexibility and heating systems for existing homes must be low carbon consider the councils that want to make progress, because or ready for hydrogen, so that the share of low-carbon it could have an impact on builders’ inclination to heating increases from 4.5% now to 90% by 2050. In develop to a higher standard within a particular area. 2015, the Energy Technologies Institute estimated that In my view, these matters should be determined by 20,000 households per week—over a million per year— self-regulating local authorities. would need to be switched from the gas grid to low-carbon heating between 2025 and 2050 to meet the then 80% Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): There emissions reduction target in the event that non-fossil are ambitious councils, but is the right hon. Gentleman fuel gas alternatives have not been developed by then. not concerned that, were regulations determined by councils, developers would be drawn to the councils Dr Poulter: My right hon. friend spoke about the that do not impose higher standards, where their profit importance of retrofitting existing housing stock, which margin would potentially be higher? makes up about 85% of the homes that we are talking 121WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 122WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings [Dr Poulter] heat sources.The Government have taken action, including through the minimum energy efficiency standards for about. Does he agree that one suggestion that the the private rented sector that we have just been talking Minister could take away is that over time, we could about, which came into force for new tenancies in 2019. increase the duty on landlords to ensure that their Those standards require landlords to contribute up to properties become more energy efficient? A requirement £3,500 to improve rental properties with an EPC rating for their properties to reach an energy efficiency rating of either F or G. of D, then C, and so on, would not only give landlords However, as I shall elaborate shortly, the experience time to adapt, but would help tenants in some of the of my constituents in rural Shropshire—and my own as poorest households to save on fuel bills and would also a landlord—is that that sum does not reflect the actual help meet our carbon emissions targets. cost of retrofitting most homes, such as three-bedroomed, semi-detached cottages in rural areas. I was surprised to Philip Dunne: I will touch on that briefly later in my discover a 95% decline in the installation of domestic remarks. My hon. Friend is right, and the Government energy efficiency measures since 2012, meaning that the have already introduced requirements for landlords to rate at which homes undertake energy improvements get to an E rating for all properties other than those in needs to increase by a factor of seven to meet the targets the categories of exemptions—those include listed buildings, set out in the clean growth strategy. properties where the tenant will not allow the adaptation because of its intrusive nature, or where the cost makes The Government can and must go further. For example, the adaptation disproportionate. Those requirements the market for zero-carbon heating technologies is still come into effect from 1 April for all new and existing immature and needs further Government support to tenancies, and there is talk of progressively increasing develop. The renewable heat incentive is due to end next the requirement to a C rating, as my hon. Friend year, in March 2021, and I sincerely hope that its alluded to. successor arrangements will be included in the Budget next month. I encourage Ministers to consider replacing That is absolutely fine for new builds and is probably the RHI with a capital grant or an improved green fine for properties in which the work relatively simple to finance loans scheme. That would better reflect the do, but the big challenge is for existing, and particularly main barrier to heat pump uptake—the high up-front older, housing stock. The work is extremely intrusive cost of capital equipment and adaptations required, and most tenants would not be able to occupy the such as underfloor heating—rather than helping to building while it was being done, so it can only really reduce running costs as at present. happen when a tenancy comes to an end. Of course, that does not affect the 9 million-odd owner-occupied I also hope that the Government will consider the houses that do not already have a rating, so about a recommendation of the January 2020 report of the third of the housing stock is not rated at all. It will not Building Better, Building Beautiful Commission that apply to those properties unless the Government choose VAT on housing, renovation and repair should be aligned to change the rules and make owner-occupiers upgrade with that on new build in order to stop disincentivising their buildings as well. the reuse of existing buildings. The Government are in a Going back to my thread about the scale of the challenge position to take bold steps on retrofitting social housing. in adapting our existing housing stock, the current level I welcome the Conservative manifesto commitment to of gas boiler sales is over 1 million a year,while heat pump invest £6.3 billion to improve the energy efficiency of sales are only around 20,000 a year. The capital cost of 2.2 million disadvantaged homes, reducing their energy heat pumps, and the adaptations to existing homes to bills by as much as £750 a year over this Parliament. make them effective through under-floor heating, wall Last year the financial scale of the challenge of insulation and double glazing, make them a very expensive improving existing housing stock was laid bare by the and disruptive solution for retrofitting homes. then Minister when answering a parliamentary question. The issue of ensuring the heat efficiency of older It was made clear that the aspiration for as many homes homes is particularly pronounced in rural areas, such as as possible to be upgraded to EPC band C by 2035, as my constituency and that of my hon. Friend the Member set out in the clean growth strategy, was estimated by for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter), the Department to have a total investment cost of where there are more older homes and—certainly in my £35 billion to £65 billion. If my maths is right and that case, in Shropshire—a higher proportion of listed houses. applies to the 12.5 million properties at a D rating or Those houses are exempt from EPC requirements at worse, that would average between £2,500 and £5,200 per present, and they may also not be connected to the property. I have news for the Minister: from all our traditional gas grid. For example, only 3% of all off-grid anecdotal evidence for the actual cost of conversion to homes are at the required minimum EPC level identified get an EPC E rating to meet the private rental standards by the clean growth strategy, but rural off-gas-grid we have just been talking about, that seems to be an homes make up 11% of all UK homes. I encourage the unrealistically low figure. Government to engage with industry to tackle that issue Whatever the figure, those are staggering sums. The in working to meet the 2050 target. good news is that, alongside doing the right thing for We clearly face a massive challenge in adapting existing our environment, such investment could deliver substantial housing stock to reduce emissions and become more economic returns of up to £7.5 billion per year overall, efficient. Some 85% of UK homes are heated through and £275 per affected household per year by 2035. That carbon-emitting gas heating systems. As I have already would have a spin-off benefit of creating a large number indicated, the pace and scale of adaptation to achieve of jobs to do the refitting work—estimated at 100,000—and net zero by 2050 will require a dual strategy of making saving the equivalent of six Hinkley Point C-sized power homes more energy efficient and decarbonising their stations-worth of energy. There is therefore potential 123WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 124WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings for a viable investment case to be made, but it needs to afraid that I have serious reservations about the EPC be credibly structured, which I am afraid some previous regime. Its current methodology can produce perverse schemes were not. ratings that will hamper significantly our efforts to The other significant challenge is that achieving net decarbonise existing building stock. For example, high zero for our built environment will require improving carbon-emitting heating options can achieve higher scores not only domestic homes but non-domestic building because they are cheaper to run, which is clearly contrary stock across the country. The 2016 building energy to the ambition but a hangover from the legacy purpose efficiency survey identified some 1.83 million non-domestic of EPCs—they were originally introduced to help reduce premises in England and Wales, with vastly diverse fuel poverty, whereas their current use is primarily to usage and efficiencies, presenting a significant challenge assess energy efficiency.Thus, biomass boilers and wood- in reducing emissions. In both rented and owner-occupied burning stoves often score badly in EPCs, as the number workplace buildings, five sectors accounted for 70% of of models included in the database is limited, default total energy use—retail, storage, industrial, health and efficiencies are poor and fuel costs can be higher than hospitality—and 67% of energy was used for activities for heating oil, even though they generate a fraction of that were not sector-specific, such as heating, hot water, the CO2 emissions of oil, coal or gas per kilowatt-hour. lighting and the like. There is real scope to reduce In assessing EPCs, the weighting of costly measures energy consumption if the approach is correct. that can make a material difference in improving energy The Government’s consultation set out two options efficiency, such as replacing single-pane with double or outlining the energy cost implications of setting a target even triple-glazed windows, can only score two points, of achieving an EPC rating of B or, alternatively, an in the case of double-glazed windows, since it may have EPC rating of C. It is encouraging that the Government’s a low impact on fuel costs. I encourage the Minister to preferred approach seems to be to aim for the higher take away this point and to engage with stakeholders on rating of EPC B, given the scale required to meet our how the EPC ratings could be updated or amended to emissions obligations, but that will of course require reflect better the ambition of meeting net zero by 2050. considerable investment, estimated at some £5 billion. The Government will need to reflect carefully on the In conclusion, I have five clear policy points, on delivery mechanisms used to stimulate the change required, which I hope the Minister will reflect. First, there is a not only using market mechanisms and support for new need to strengthen the future homes standard, so that technologies,but enabling access for private sector businesses inefficient homes are not being built for longer than is to green finance to facilitate adaptation. necessary. Local authorities, as we have been discussing, The third area is the estate of the Government and should have the flexibility to set higher standards earlier public sector, which are of course substantial occupiers if they so wish, to meet their own climate change of buildings. The Government should lead by example targets. The Committee on Climate Change has called to reduce emissions by tackling the energy efficiency of for the date to be moved forward to give certainty, and I the Government estate. They have reduced emissions hope the Minister will consider that. from the public building estate by 26% since 2009-10, Secondly, the Government must support zero-carbon but in reality that has been achieved mostly through a heating beyond the end of the current renewable heat reduction in the estate rather than through improvements incentive schemes—beyond 2021—including financial in efficiency. support and targets for heat pumps and other zero- Last year the Environmental Audit Committee took carbon heating options. Thirdly, householders should evidence on net zero government and learnt of interesting be incentivised to improve the efficiency of their homes, work going on through modern energy partners, a not only in fuel-poor homes. In rural constituencies collaborative programme between the Department for such as mine, that will create jobs and keep heating bills Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the Cabinet lower, while cutting emissions and energy use, but Office and Energy Systems Catapult, working alongside Government support is required to get it moving. the Crown Commercial Service and private sector specialists. MEP was launched in early 2018 and was expected to Fourthly, in publicly owned buildings the Government complete in April 2021, at which point the Government have a real opportunity to lead by example. They should may consider the programme for adoption as business extend their manifesto commitment to improve schools as usual. and hospitals, by enabling public sector bodies to invest in on-site renewable energy sources. That would create The Conservative manifesto for the December general jobs,reduce bills and emissions,and show the Government’s election committed to a public sector decarbonisation commitment to their world-leading ambition in cutting scheme totalling £2.9 billion over a five-year period, emissions. My final ask is that the Minister commit to a and to funding insulation in hospitals and schools. I review of the EPC system, which has moved on from its trust that will be confirmed in the comprehensive spending original purpose and can create perverse anomalies, review later this year. I do not want to pre-empt the particularly for older, rural homes. conclusions of the MEP,but I hope that the Government will consider incentivising public sector organisations I welcome the Government’s future homes standard to invest in their own renewable energy sources wherever consultation and their clear target to reach net zero by possible, which will deliver lower energy bills to help 2050, with all the steps that will inevitably entail. I hope recoup their costs, as well as further reducing emissions the Minister will reflect on the concerns of various and supporting the UK’s growing renewable sector. organisations that will have submitted evidence through I will also touch on the validity of the EPC ratings the consultation, and Members’ comments today, to regime, since they have become the main tool for ensure that the real opportunity to bring lasting change Government and those looking to buy properties to to the way we construct, insulate and heat our buildings analyse the supposed efficiency of a building. I am does not slip through our fingers. 125WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 126WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings 3 pm target the whole of one street where there are privately owned cottages and people do not have proper insulation.” Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) We would call it something like a care and repair (LD): It is an honour to speak under your chairmanship scheme, which worked extremely well. There was a today, Mr Pritchard. I listened to the right hon. Member dividing line between the rented and not rented sector— for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) with the greatest of interest, block A and block B—but all that was capital; it was not least because I come from one of the coldest parts—if borrowing as opposed to revenue, so it was easier for not the coldest part—of the United Kingdom. There is the Scottish Government, and ultimately the Treasury, a village called Altnaharra in Sutherland, which is a to use the public sector borrowing requirement and the great favourite of Jeremy Paxman—he goes to catch Public Works Loan Board to get the cheapest money in salmon there. People also have a very good chance of town and direct it at the problems that had to be sorted seeing a golden eagle there. However,every year Altanarra out. is the coldest place in the United Kingdom. Today, we know for a fact that money has never been I have been increasingly worried by something that cheaper, so in some ways it is easier for the Treasury to all right hon. and hon. Members know about: the borrow a large amount of money at a cheap rate and terrible thought of a pensioner deciding to switch off direct it straight at what it wants to achieve, be that their heating because they simply cannot afford it. I building ships or whatever. As the right hon. Gentleman want to put on the record my gratitude to Councillor said, it should be relatively easy for the UK Government Richard Gale, among other colleagues, who has helped to direct a chunk of money at housing, given that it to spearhead the issue that the right hon. Gentleman does not come off the revenue budget—in other words, spoke about in East Sutherland and the wider highlands they do not have to raise taxes to spend. They will have and islands. Although we generate an enormous amount to cover the borrowing costs, yes, but they are very of renewable energy from our onshore and offshore cheap. That is one suggestion worth thinking about, as wind farms, in actual fact many of my constituents have it worked well in the past. Perhaps we will hear more heating bills they simply cannot afford. detail about what the Scottish Government do from the In absolute fairness to the Scottish Government, I hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan want to put on the record my thanks to them; I may Brown)—he will know better than I do. The Scottish sometimes take a pot shot at them, but they have put Government are doing their best. tackling fuel poverty at the top of their agenda. Credit should be given where it is due. My wife comes from one My final point, because this is a brief contribution, is of the six counties of the UK part of Ireland—let me that I have spoken in this place about trying to encourage get my history right—and I understand that similar people, for carbon reasons, to buy and use electric cars. moves are being made at Stormont, which we should be However, even for those with lots of power points for grateful for. charging, electric cars are expensive things to buy. A lot of people are put off by the cost. I have suggested some In my brief contribution, I will make a couple of kind of tax break for people who buy an electric car, suggestions. I live in a particularly cold, energy inefficient taken off their pay-as-you-earn code. That might be a house, so I know all about keeping a house warm. Hon. constructive way of looking at it. To encourage Members will probably be shocked to know that I know householders to think about making their homes highly all about lighting fires and trying to stay warm and efficient, it might be worth making it work for them to trying to haul ancient shutters shut and getting them to do the work, as well as there being Government assistance. stay shut. Oddly enough, old-fashioned wooden shutters That would address the point that right hon. and hon. were quite good at energy insulation, although I am not Members made about heat pumps. Heat pumps work, advocating that we step back to 18th or early 19th-century but they are fiendishly expensive to put in, and the building construction. The right hon. Gentleman talked disruption is something else. But if the goal for the house about retrofitting; that is the problem we face in the owner at the end is worth it, the game is worth the highlands.Notwithstanding the good measures undertaken candle—I think that is the right expression. by the Scottish Government, in some ways we were slightly better at these things 25 years ago than we are This is an enormous issue for me, because it is so today. dashed cold up in my part of the world. I wish it was That leads me to my next point. A long time ago, not so. Who knows? Climate change may have us all when I was a councillor in the 1980s and 1990s, home growing grapes on the straths of Sutherland and Caithness improvements could be undertaken in several ways. The in the years to come, but I doubt it. Scottish Office—then part of the UK Government, not today’s Scottish Government—would allocate two forms 3.8 pm of capital funding to councils, known as block A and block B. Block A was used to build, renovate or do up John Howell (Henley) (Con): It is a pleasure to serve houses in the public rented sector—that is where council under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. I thank my houses were built. Block B was for renovating or repairing right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) properties in poor condition that should be lived in. for his comprehensive assessment of the issue. That included spaces above shops, because there was a I wish to make a couple of points during my equally tendency for many living spaces above shops not to be short contribution. It is worth reflecting that building used in quite the way they had been when the shopkeeper regulations first included energy conservation as long lived there, as a certain former Prime Minister of this ago as 1972. Since then, year after year, those regulations country did. have been tightened up to achieve much greater energy The system worked extremely well; my own Ross and conservation than before. The problem is that the last Cromarty District Council was able to say, “Right, we’ll substantial upgrade of the regulations to achieve a very take a particular part of a village in the highlands, and good energy conservation outcome was in 2013; there 127WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 128WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings has been no substantial upgrade since that date. That is It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for worrying. Minister, when will the building regulations Henley (John Howell). In debates in Westminster Hall, next be upgraded and what will that include? he and I often sit on opposite sides of the Chamber but In 2015, the long-standing policy of the Cameron say the same things. That will be the case again today, Government to achieve zero carbon for new homes was which is very positive. abruptly cancelled. That may seem like a little while I declare an interest as chair of the all-party group on ago, but it characterises a lot of the discussion about healthy homes and buildings, which over the last few this issue. I hope the Minister can comment on that in years has conducted a number of inquiries and made his summing up. recommendations, but everyone, including councils, the The issue came up during the election campaign. I sat Government, builders and householders, has a role to with a company that operates in the sector, in a village play in achieving energy efficiency in buildings. Many of where a huge development is taking place. We worked us have taken the environment for granted for too long. out together how much it would cost to make the My firm desire is that my grandchildren and my great- houses zero carbon as they were being built, from grandchildren will have an opportunity to enjoy the scratch. We calculated that the total increase in cost beautiful countryside that I have so enjoyed throughout would be about £5,000; the total cost of retrofitting the my life. For that to happen, we have to make changes houses was about £25,000. That is a huge difference, that are positive, constructive and mark the way forward. and retrofitting also comes with enormous problems—we I sincerely believe that we have to be good caretakers of have already heard about some. The firm I met specialises the land that God has granted us and that we hold in in alternative heating. Everybody wants a ground pump trust for future generations. to be put in to get the best approach to heating, but that We must also all be conscious that a massive part of is not possible in many houses and is not the best addressing these issues is to use our Commonwealth, solution. Other options, such as biomass boilers, should diplomatic and trading partnerships to encourage big be considered, as we move forward. industrial countries to take decisions that reduce the size of their carbon footprint. We must be ambitious in We need to address this area in more detail, because our desire to achieve that, but we must always bring there are significant opportunities for the UK. Residential people along with us in our attempts to make a difference and commercial buildings account for 60% of electricity to this wonderful world that we live in. The Committee consumption in the world today—a phenomenal amount. on Climate Change has highlighted that Northern Ireland I have two points to make about that. First, there has contributed 4% of UK carbon emissions in 2016. That been a lot of talk about increasing the ability of district is a small percentage, but it does not mean that we do councils to introduce regulations on net zero carbon. not have to do our bit and make sure that reductions That is missing a trick. I invented neighbourhood plans happen. We have a key role to play in meeting the UK’s that have gone out of their way to give communities the legislated emissions reduction targets and obligations freedom to decide lots of important things about where under the Paris agreement. With a reconstituted Northern housing should go. They have to work within a strategic Ireland Assembly up and running, and functioning, framework that is set by the district council, but many there will naturally be a more formalised approach to neighbourhood plans are trying to achieve more than how we can reduce our emissions in line with the rest of the district council wants. This is an opportunity to give the United Kingdom. The Minister is always very assiduous them the freedom to take that forward. in replying to comments and questions, so could I ask My second point is about developing countries. Whether him—I probably know the answer,but for the record—what you support Brexit or not, we are a global player and we discussions has he had with the Northern Ireland Assembly need to ensure that what we do helps in developing at this early stage to see how we meet the targets? countries. Many such countries have a housing crisis—we I was interested to learn that the built environment must recognise that. Whatever we do there will have to contributes around 40% of the UK’stotal carbon footprint. involve sophisticated commercial financial options. Our Almost half of that comes from energy used in buildings, international aid budget should reflect that, as well as for example plug loads and cooking, and infrastructure, the opportunities for British companies; many of the such as roads and railways, and has nothing to do with existing programmes will not sit very easily within that the functional operation. Newly constructed buildings framework. Throughout my time as trade envoy to are more energy efficient, but 80% of the buildings we Nigeria, I have tried to encourage solar energy there, will have in 2050 have already been built, so a major but the translation of that into better housing is quite a priority is decarbonising our existing stock, the cost of long way away. There is a lot that we can do to help that which has been mentioned by previous speakers. process. The UK Green Construction Board said: The building in Africa that stands out as the best net “Direct emissions from fuel use in existing buildings rose for zero example of its type is the Belgian embassy being the second year running in 2016, mainly due to heating. Heating built in Morocco. When that is the situation in a developing alone results in 10% of the nation’s carbon footprint and homes continent, we have to ask why, and what we can do are more significant than all other building types put together. about it. Decarbonising our heat supply is one of the big policy challenges ahead. Another major challenge is the carbon embodied through construction. Annual embodied emissions alone are currently 3.14 pm higher than the GCB’s target for total built environment emissions by 2050.” Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the In a very interesting paper, the Royal Institute of British right hon. Member for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) on securing Architects notes: this debate in Westminster Hall today and on his election “The built environment is responsible for around 40% of as Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee. We global carbon emissions and architects have a significant role to look forward to manycontributions under his chairmanship. play in reducing UK greenhouse gas emissions to net zero.” 129WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 130WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings [Jim Shannon] actual energy performance as a measure of energy efficiency through the implementation of a DEC programme RIBA welcomes the commitments and the direction of would be more effective. That approach has been used travel signified by many of the measures proposed in in New York and Australia. Both disclose operational recent Government consultations. It sets out six points, energy use for all buildings and in the latter case it has the first of which relates to using the metric of “operational helped to reduce operational energy by some 70%. energy”, or energy used at the meter. Operational energy There are things happening elsewhere that we should is the actual energy use of a building, and includes both try to make progress with. The climate emergency demands regulated and unregulated energy sources. We must urgent action and leadership by architects and the look at what happens in homes. Energy performance wider construction industry. It is important to reduce certificates are not the most accurate measure of energy operational energy demand by at least 75%, and embodied efficiency, as they only predict for regulated energy carbon by at least 50% to 70%, before UK offsetting; sources, including heating and lighting, not unregulated and to reduce potable water use by at least 40%, as well ones, including personal devices such as computers, as achieving all core health and wellbeing targets. refrigerators and coffee machines. The document suggests that operational energy should be validated through the It is clear that there is a role in construction to help us post-occupancy evaluation at the completion of a project. to achieve our carbon goal. As with anything else of POE is essential to ensure that a home is working as it worth, what we want must be paid for in some way. was intended, which is important. There is no doubt that scaling back funding and incentives The second point is a recommendation of actual in the construction industry has meant that we are not energy performance targets for buildings in line with the achieving what we could achieve. We must focus our RIBA 2030 climate challenge.The current process essentially energy, attention and finances on encouragement to big benefits buildings of poor shape and design, and we constructors and small firms alike. It is important to have to change that, because if we do not we shall have make lasting change to the mindset of the construction problems. Setting actual operational energy targets would industry to ensure that we meet and keep to targets and encourage architects, developers and homeowners to be that we are an example to the rest of the world of how innovative and would reward good design based on carbon-zero building can be achieved in an affordable form, orientation and fabric performance, rather than and practical way. simply calculating an emissions reduction based on a I am sure that we are all aware of the story where a generic building. young boy of five or six years old on the shore is picking Thirdly, RIBA proposes introducing embodied carbon up starfish and a man is watching his antics. The boy targets for buildings, in line with the 2030 climate challenge, picks up a starfish, puts it in his bucket and takes it out and suggests giving encouragement for embodied carbon to sea. The guy looks at him and says, “Young man, to be calculated in accordance with the Royal Institution you’re wasting your time. You can’t save them all,” and of Chartered Surveyors whole-life carbon assessment he answers, “But I can save this one.” We can only play a for the built environment. Again, those are positive small part by what we do. We cannot change the world measures, and the Minister is probably well aware of by ourselves, but we can bring about change if we do those recommendations and suggestions, but it is important what we can at home. We cannot reduce the world’s to have them on the record. RIBA also suggests promoting emissions by our own efforts, but we can reduce the the use of post-occupancy evaluations, pointing out emissions in our reach and encourage other nations that a POE gives the building owner or tenant, the across the world to do the same. architect and the builder a chance to understand any 3.25 pm areas that are not performing as expected, and to make Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): It is changes. That is especially useful for energy efficiency. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. The fifth recommendation is to close the loopholes in Like everyone else, I congratulate the right hon. Member the transitional arrangements for the future homes standard. for Ludlow (Philip Dunne) on bringing forward the The document refers to evidence that housing developments debate. I also congratulate him on his new role. He is are being built to energy efficiency requirements that clearly passionate about the environment. I wish him have been superseded more than twice, as a result of well in holding the Government to account, which I am changes to part L of the building regulations. It seems sure is more fun than being an actual Minister. It was that the requirements may have improved, but people interesting that he started with five green pledges for have not caught up with that. That is not acceptable and Lent. Similar to the saying about puppies, those pledges it will result in housing developments being built to could be for life and not just Lent. We can reflect different energy efficiency requirements. We need them on that. to be built to the same requirements, so that the same The right hon. Gentleman set the scene very well, process goes forward. RIBA suggests that where including the scale of the issue that faces us in achieving “substantial and meaningful work” such as physical net zero for domestic buildings, and fact that the decline construction work has commenced on an individual in emissions has stalled in recent years. It certainly building within a reasonable period, the transitional struck home to me that about 20 million of 29 million arrangements should apply to that building—but not to homes have an EPC rating, and of those more are buildings on which some building work has not commenced. rated D than A, B and C combined, although I suggest It further suggests that a reasonable period within which that those figures are not reflected across the UK. I will work should have started is 12 months. give some statistics later. The last point is about introducing display energy I agree completely about the need to decarbonise our certificates. As I have mentioned, EPCs are not an heating system. The bigger picture there goes hand in appropriate measure of energy efficiency. The use of the hand with the need for the UK Government to invest in 131WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 132WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings carbon capture and storage and hydrogen production, the lead of the Scottish Government. Now, I would say with projects such as the Acorn project up in Peterhead. that, but organisations in the sector say it as well. The The right hon. Gentleman rightly highlighted the big energy companies say it, as do many third sector challenge of rural off-gas-grid homes. That is a big organisations. The BEIS Committee said it in its 2019 challenge for the Government and I, too, look forward report, “Energy efficiency: building towards net zero”, to hearing the Minister’s response on that and on the as did the Committee on Climate Change in its 2019 issues about the renewable heat incentive coming to an progress report to Parliament, titled “Reducing UK end. Looking at the bigger picture, that ties in with the Emissions”. The BEIS Committee report stated: loss of the feed-in tariffs for solar. There is now a 20% “We note that Scotland’s investment of four times more than VAT uplift in solar. All those measures are prohibiting England cannot be explained by a less efficient dwelling stock: the energy efficiency measures that would reduce energy latest housing survey data demonstrates that homes in Scotland demand and therefore the carbon emissions from homes. actually have greater insulation levels than in England. For example, There was a good statistic about the fact that if we in 2017, 49 per cent of homes in England had insulated walls, compared to 60 per cent of homes in Scotland… Scotland has achieve the EPC band C overall, that would be the made much faster progress in improving the energy efficiency of equivalent of the removal of six Hinkley Point C power its fuel poor homes than England, where in some bands, progress stations. We should bear in mind that the Hinkley has stalled.” Point C capital cost alone is about £22 billion. That It was good to hear the hon. Member for Caithness, shows how much money could be saved with direct Sutherland and Easter Ross acknowledge the work of Government investment to bring the entire housing the Scottish Government on that. stock up to spec. In the long run it provide value for money.The right hon. Gentleman highlighted the critical Statistics show Scotland’s relative success: 44% of issue with the EPC regime, and favouring lower costs Scottish homes were rated as EPC band C or better in over carbon emissions. The hon. Member for Strangford 2018, compared with just 34% in England, and only (Jim Shannon) touched on that as well, so it is clearly 20% in Wales. In Scotland, the proportion of properties something that needs to be resolved. It would be good in the lowest EPC bands of E, F and G has more than to hear what the Minister says on that and the five halved since 2010, going from 27% to 12%. In England recommendations that were made. the figure is higher,at 16%, and in Wales it is 20%—although The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and the Scottish figure is measured slightly differently. It is Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) spoke about lighting fires, therefore little wonder that the BEIS Committee concluded: which took me back to my childhood when we had coal “The Government appears indifferent towards how public per fires in the house and there would be ice on the inside of capita spend in household energy efficiency in England compares the single-pane windows when I got up. There is one to other parts of the UK” blessing: things have moved on in the last 30 to 40 years. and We also heard from the hon. Member for Henley (John “the governments of the devolved nations treat energy efficiency Howell) on the big issue of cancelling the zero-carbon as a much higher priority than the UK Government.” homes initiative and the fact that retrofitting will cost The Committee’s description of the UK Government as five times the original capital outlay. That again shows “indifferent” is particularly damning. I would like to that changing decisions costs more money in the long hear what the Minister has to say about that, and how run. The Government should look at the bigger picture. the Government will address it going forward. Of course, no debate would be complete without the hon. Member for Strangford giving us the Northern The Committee on Climate Change confirmed that Ireland view within the UK context. He made some policies are not currently in place to deliver the UK critical points. Government’s ambition to improve all homes to at least It really is a no-brainer that greater energy efficiency EPC band C. The CCC stated that regulations for the measures can only assist in reducing carbon emissions private rented sector prioritise costs for landlords over at the point of use, as well as generation demand, the costs for tenants to operate their heating systems, further reducing overall carbon emissions.Energy efficiency and that minimum standards for social housing are can help to reduce fuel poverty and can be part of the required. It then observed that the Scottish Government, green industrial revolution, creating additional jobs in by contrast, are demonstrating how an effective policy various insulation techniques. Obviously, it is needed to package for energy efficiency improvements in buildings get to our net zero target by 2050, so I must ask why the might be delivered by setting out a comprehensive UK Government are not doing more in that field. framework of standards, backed by legislation. That One simple positive measure that the UK Government legislation includes private rented sector regulations, could pursue is removing the 20% tax threshold on phased to set a date for when new tenancies have to energy efficiency home improvements.Independent research comply, and a backstop date for all private rented by the Federation of Master Builders demonstrates that properties. The Scottish Government also set a higher cutting VAT on energy efficiency improvements will not cost that landlords in the private sector might have to only improve the housing stock and generate thousands shoulder. There are proposals for all owner-occupiers to of jobs but significantly boost the UK economy by be required to meet EPC band C by 2040, with incentives bringing empty properties back into use and reducing to try to do it by 2030. In the social rented sector, the the incidence of fuel poverty. I suspect that it is too revised standard published in June 2019 requires all much to hope for that measure to be included in next social housing to meet EPC band B by the end of 2032, month’s Budget, but the Minister should be talking and sets a minimum floor of EPC band D from 2025, about it with Treasury colleagues. below which no social house can be re-let. Others Members touched, implicitly or directly, on It is time for the UK Government to follow suit and the fact that direct Government investment in energy put in place a proper framework covering the private efficiency is crucial. The UK Government need to follow rented sector, social housing minimum standards and 133WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 134WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings [Alan Brown] thereby eradicating the vast majority of fuel poverty; reduced childhood asthma by more than half a million owner-occupiers, as the Scottish Government have. The cases; and cut the UK’semissions by 10%. The programme Scottish Government backed those measures up by would have created 250,000 skilled construction jobs spending from 2009 to 2021 what is predicted to be through the 2020s. Through a climate apprenticeship more than £1 billion, and £145 million this year. If the programme, the training and skills needed to access Government invest in a long-term energy efficiency those jobs would have been available to all. investment programme, it will create jobs, allow the Labour will not have the opportunity to deliver those programme to be delivered at best value, avoiding spikes policies in this Parliament, but I urge cross-party in cost, and be part of the green industrial revolution. co-operation on meeting our energy objectives. If we Some 27 million homes need their heating systems are serious about tackling climate change and fuel decarbonised, so it is crucial that they are as energy poverty, nothing less than a nationwide, large-scale efficient as possible. The Government have one live programme will do. I was impressed by the suggestions scheme for home insulation measures: the energy company made by the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland obligation scheme. Yet the Committee on Fuel Poverty and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) on how to achieve such a states that those measures do not target the right people, large-scale building programme, and the incentives in so that needs to be reviewed as well. his constituency to succeed in it. Another spin-off of energy efficiency measures can Unfortunately, since the election, details about how be the regeneration of social housing stock. We tend to the Government will achieve their targets for increasing think of energy efficiency measures as internal insulation, the energy efficiency of homes, schools, businesses and but they include external cladding. When external cladding public buildings have been somewhat scant. I agree is installed and re-rendered it can transform the appearance absolutely with the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and of housing schemes—I have seen that first hand in my Loudoun (Alan Brown) that the measures in the clean local authority, where I was formerly a councillor. growth strategy are not enough to ensure that we meet The BEIS Committee also said in its report that the carbon emissions targets and move towards a carbon- UK Government must not only match Scottish levels of neutral society. funding but create a joined-up strategy, and that the Unfortunately, the Government’s pledge to invest “weight of stakeholder evidence suggests that Scotland designating £9.2 billion in improving the energy efficiency of homes, energy efficiency as a national infrastructure priority has helped schools and hospitals does not go far enough. There is to improve its policy impact, making energy efficiency policy no real ambition about ensuring that homes are insulated. better designed and funded, longer-term, as well as more comprehensively governed and targeted, than in England.” Plans introduced in 2018 to insulate 17,000 solid-wall homes are noble, but at that rate it would take 400 years Hopefully the Minister will acknowledge that, and step to insulate all 4 million such homes in the UK. In its up to the plate by following suit. recent report, “Engineering priorities for delivering net- zero”, the Institution of Engineering and Technology—I 3.36 pm declare an interest as a fellow of that institution—set out some of the challenges and emphasised that 80% of Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): the homes we will be living in by 2050 have already been It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, built, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) Mr Pritchard. I congratulate the right hon. Member for stated. Ludlow (Philip Dunne) not only on securing this important debate, but on his excellent and comprehensive opening Current proposals to ensure carbon neutrality in new remarks, which set the scene very well. I also congratulate build homes through the future homes standard do not all other Members on their contributions, because the go far enough. They would eventually come into force tone of the debate has rightly been very constructive—no in 2025, nine years later than previous plans were set to pun intended. be implemented before they were scrapped in 2015. The hon. Member for Henley (John Howell) did well to Climate change is the biggest challenge facing us all, emphasise the importance of building regulations and and as politicians we must rise to that challenge. I was the retrograde nature of that measure. reminded of that a couple of weeks ago, when speaking at Newcastle’s youth climate strike. The concern of the MawsonKerr, an architecture firm in my constituency, young speakers about the climate emergency was matched raised with me a number of concerns that were also only by their lack of confidence in politicians’ ability to expressed by the London Energy Transformation Initiative, address it. I think, and hope, that we can prove that we a voluntary network of more than 1,000 built environment have the ability to make real change and achieve net professionals, including engineers and architects. It stated: zero in time to save the planet. Today’s debate has “The proposals will allow new homes to be built to lower touched on several issues that contribute to that objective, energy efficiency standards than homes built today. This is a associated with energy efficiency. depressing step backwards rather than the huge leap forwards we Insulating our homes to a high standard is essential need to take in the face of the climate emergency.” to tackling the climate emergency, and will ensure that Among other things, it criticises the fact that the future we tackle the fuel poverty crisis in our country—a homes standard takes away local authorities’ powers to national scandal, with 10,000 people tragically having demand greater energy efficiency; that it targets not died last year because their homes were too cold. At the zero-carbon emissions but a reduction in carbon last election Labour put forward proposals to deliver emissions, compared with the current part L of the warm homes for all, with the largest upgrade of UK building standards; that it does not prioritise energy housing since post-war reconstruction. That upgrade efficiency but relies instead on bolt-on technologies to would have cut more than £400 off the average bill, reduce emissions; that it fails to address fuel poverty or 135WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 136WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings occupant health; that it makes no requirement for post- We face a climate emergency. This Parliament was the occupancy monitoring; and, as the hon. Member for first to pass a motion declaring a climate emergency. We Strangford mentioned, that it does not consider embodied need action by the Government to ensure that we meet carbon—the carbon emissions related to building the the challenge of that emergency. house. The Government’s own Committee on Climate Change 3.47 pm has said that the proposals do not go far enough to protect against overheating, flooding and water shortages. The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth We have been reminded very effectively in the past few (Kwasi Kwarteng): It is a pleasure to take part in this weeks of the importance of protecting against flooding. debate under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Ludlow (Philip We must be ambitious when it comes to any aspect of Dunne) for bringing forward this important and timely reducing our energy consumption. With the UK set to debate, and congratulate him on his election as Chair host COP 26 in Glasgow later this year, we have a of the Environmental Audit Committee. My first outing chance not only to be ambitious for our own country, in this role was in front of his Committee—under a but to be an example of ambitious climate policy around different Chair, who sadly was not re-elected. However, the world. We need to look at how we can begin to move I am pleased to see that my right hon. Friend has taken towards making buildings more energy efficient. As we her place. heard, buildings account for 37% of UK carbon emissions. Ensuring that homes, the largest contributor to that I have taken part in a number of debates about these figure, operate at their peak must be a priority. Ensuring issues. This one covered many policy areas, including that proper insulation is installed in all homes—particularly power generation, which is not really what the debate is the homes of those with low incomes—would have about, but I will start with my right hon. Friend’s many beneficial consequences. Not only does installing specific points about heat and the energy efficiency of insulation increase the overall energy efficiency of homes homes. He presented five challenges, and I will address and reduce their carbon output, but it reduces the each individually. pressures of high energy bills. First, my right hon. Friend mentioned zero-carbon A report by Verco and Cambridge Econometrics heating beyond the RHI. We are absolutely committed found that bringing all low-income households up to to seeing how we can support the renewable heat incentive high energy efficiency standards would not only tackle beyond the date on which it expires. He also mentioned fuel poverty but generate a return of £3.20 for every the future homes standard. My hon. Friend the Member £1 invested by the Government, improve relative GDP for Henley (John Howell) raised the fact that the zero-carbon by 0.6% by 2030, and increase employment by up to homes target was scrapped. The Government feel that 108,000 jobs a year between 2020 and 2030. Those are the future homes initiative is much more realistic and the concrete advantages of such a policy. better in terms of reducing carbon emissions in houses Another way to achieve greater energy efficiency is to than the initial zero-carbon scheme. That scheme allowed bring all homes in the UK up to EPC band C. As we for offsetting, whereas the future homes standard will heard, to achieve that we need to look at upgrading concentrate on lowering absolutely levels of emissions. I millions of owner-occupied homes to make them more think that is a much better way of approaching the energy efficient. In addition, landlords should not be problem, but I am happy to discuss that with him later. able to let out properties that are below acceptable The third item mentioned by my right hon. Friend is energy efficiency levels. The remedy for that is enforcement really key to the debate: incentives for householders to at local level, but those standards have proven difficult contribute in some way to upgrading the energy efficiency to enforce given the strain on local authority resources. of their homes. When we look at the totality of buildings Policies should be in place to ensure that landlords in the UK in terms of their carbon emissions, the vast are given the assistance they require, above a certain majority—about two thirds—are owner-occupied homes: threshold, to increase the energy efficiency of their those inhabited by people who have either paid off a property to the new standard. At present, the amount a mortgage or currently have one. It is a big challenge to landlord should spend on uplifting to band E is £2,500. raise the energy efficiency of those homes. Drawing on If that were increased to £5,000, and a complementary his professional background, he spoke about the ability system of grants were introduced to further uplift a to have consumer finance and incentivise people to property’s banding, the number of highly energy efficient make such large investments.On that note, the Government properties in the rental market would increase. We must have already started: we have a £5 million green finance also normalise the idea that landlords should not be initiative, working with banks to provide finance for permitted to let properties that do not meet minimum precisely the reasons he mentioned. energy efficiency requirements, and give local authorities the powers and funding necessary to follow up on that. Alan Brown: Surely the £5 billion of green finance is a In conclusion, I have five questions for the Minister. bigger package that will not be going to individual Will he bring forward measures that focus on energy householders. If it was, it would be like the green deal efficiency, which is vital not only to tackle the climate scheme, which the Government had to terminate because emergency but to reduce fuel poverty? Will he put in it was not working right. place a well-funded and ambitious plan to insulate existing solid-wall housing? Will he increase the amount Kwasi Kwarteng: It is an initial step. In Germany, available to landlords to spend on uplifting properties KfW has a consumer finance piece that gives small to band E? Will he put in place measures to improve loans for green initiatives. We had a green deal; my energy efficiency in rented properties and new build personal view and, I think, the Government view is that properties? Will he give local authorities the power and it did not work principally because the interest rate was resources to achieve more ambitious climate targets? too high. However, that does not discredit such initiatives. 137WH Energy Efficiency Measures: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Energy Efficiency Measures: 138WH Net Zero Buildings Net Zero Buildings [Kwasi Kwarteng] Kwasi Kwarteng: I fully accept that we have to deal with fuel poverty in this country.Wedo have the policies— I was struck that the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) mentioned the Labour Chi Onwurah: How much does it cost? party manifesto and its commitments on houses. It was extraordinary but unsurprising that although she mentioned Kwasi Kwarteng: If she will not barrack me, I can say all the jobs that would be produced and carbon emissions, that we do have policies addressing fuel poverty. We she did not say how much the policy would cost. That is have the energy company obligation, which we are a critical part of the debate. As my right hon. Friend completely committed to, and we committed billions of suggested, a huge amount—in the order of £65 billion— pounds in our manifesto to address fuel poverty specifically. needs to be invested in the next 10 years. That will not all come from the Government; some will come from Alan Brown: Will the Minister give way? consumers, who will rightly invest in making their homes more secure. Investments in those houses are not lost Kwasi Kwarteng: I have two minutes in which to wrap money; they will enhance property values, so they make up and allow my right hon. Friend the Member for commercial sense in many ways. Ludlow time to conclude the debate, so, with due courtesy [MR VIRENDRA SHARMA in the Chair] and respect, please allow me to finish my remarks. The fifth specific point mentioned by my right hon. I am pleased that we had the debate and I am sure we Friend was the EPC scheme. It is not a perfect measure, will have more of them. This will probably make too but it does capture something about what we are trying much work for me and my officials, but I suggest we to do. It has an indicative value in forcing up the could debate specific issues raised this afternoon such standards we expect not only of the Government but of as EPC standards, widening consumer finance and publicly private sector landlords, as was mentioned in the debate. owned building strategy—there are so many issues. In that space, I can announce that we are already Salix, the finance company focused on providing funding consulting on tightening standards in the private rental to upgrade public buildings, was not mentioned in the sector. Weaspire for private landlords not to get properties debate. There are many different avenues and I am sure to EPC band E but to make investments to improve that hon. Members in the Chamber will come to subsequent their properties to band B or C by 2030. That is a debates to discuss them more fully. significant improvement and a step in the right direction. The debate has shown that we still have a big task. 3.58 pm The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) highlighted the achievements of the Scottish Philip Dunne: Welcome to your place to conclude the Government, but he will appreciate that of the 27 million debate, Mr Sharma. I thank hon. Members who made homes in the UK, 24.2 million are outside Scotland, in contributions—when we started, I was not sure whether England, Wales and Northern Ireland. While I appreciate there would be any.I was delighted that we had thoughtful the successes of the Scottish Government, we cannot comments from my hon. Friend the Member for Henley see it simply as a competition. In fact, colleagues of his (John Howell) and from the hon. Members for Strangford in the devolved Administration are always telling me, (Jim Shannon) and for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter “We have got to work together and co-operate.” They Ross (Jamie Stone), who personalised his contribution want negotiations, discussions and policy evolution in with images of windows iced-up inside as well as outside partnership with the Government in Westminster. That all over his constituency. I am grateful to the Opposition is a welcome development. I have meetings and calls spokesperson, the hon. Member for Newcastle upon with Ministers in the devolved Administrations and I Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah), for the constructive way have just spoken on calls to Diane Dodds and Edwin in which the Opposition approached the debate. This is Poots, the newly appointed Ministers in Northern Ireland. a cross-party issue on which there is broad consensus—not This cross-UK approach is the best method. necessarily on the detail, however, as one would expect, There are so many other issues we could talk about. particularly having just come through a general election We clearly need joined-up policy in this area. We cannot campaign—and it will continue to reverberate around improve the energy performance of our buildings without the House during this Parliament. engaging with our friends at the Ministry of Housing, I welcome the Minister’s invitation to colleagues to Communities and Local Government. I was struck that continue with these themes in the coming months. I was that Department, which has responsibility for the particularly pleased to hear his commitment to extend performance of local authorities, was barely mentioned, RHI in some form and his comments on the future which led me to believe that BEIS has the sole answers homes standard. Wewill look carefully at the Government’s to all these questions. I wish that were true, but we do response. I share his view that, with innovation in the have to participate and engage with colleagues across City of London and other financial institutions in this Government in Treasury and MHCLG. country, we should be able to come up with a green finance scheme to help householders fund improvements. Chi Onwurah: I thank the Minister for giving way and for rightly challenging me on the costs of the The one area on which I would like to press the proposals I cited from the Labour manifesto.Our manifesto Minister on another occasion is the EPC regime, which was fully costed, and the cost was £60 billion. As we needs to be looked at. I was slightly disappointed that said, we have the lowest interest rates in history. Will he he did not volunteer that. I hope that we can take tell me the cost of the thousands who currently die from another opportunity to discuss that, perhaps outside fuel poverty? What is the cost to the economy of not the Chamber. meeting the challenges of the climate emergency? Motion lapsed (Standing Order No.10(6)). 139WH 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Cawdor Barracks 140WH

Cawdor Barracks Flying from Brawdy ceased in 1992, as part of the rationalisation of advanced and tactical weapons training, but it was a further two years until the remaining small 4 pm number of RAF personnel and their Westland Sea Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): I beg King helicopters also left the site. In economic terms, to move, the loss of the large number of RAF and US naval That this House has considered the future of Cawdor Barracks, personnel and their families at that time had a significant Brawdy. negative impact on the Pembrokeshire economy. I will It is a privilege to speak under your chairmanship, return to the economic value of the base later, but it is Mr Sharma. I am pleased to have secured this short debate important for the Minister and others to understand on Cawdor barracks at Brawdy in my constituency, the historical context of the decisions that are currently home to the 14 Signal Regiment, which specialises in being taken about the future use of the site. electronic warfare. I want to address the continued In 1995 the Brawdy site was transferred from the uncertainty that hangs over the site, arising from a RAF to the British Army, under the name Cawdor closure plan that has changed several times in recent years barracks, and became a base for the 14th Signal Regiment, under different Ministers at the Ministry of Defence. which had hitherto been located at various sites across I will start by giving a brief history of the barracks, Germany. At the time it was widely understood that the before emphasising their importance to the armed forces base was intended to be something of a temporary in Wales and to the local community in Preseli, arrangement, with no certainty that it would become a Pembrokeshire. Located on the north-west coast of permanent home. People closely involved in the transfer Pembrokeshire, some six miles from St Davids—the of the regiment to Cawdor barracks would later tell me UK’s smallest city—the Cawdor barracks site has a that it was evident from the outset that the base was less long and active military history, stretching back to the than ideal, despite many positive aspects.The infrastructure second world war. It was officially opened in February on the site had lots of potential but required significant 1944, as RAF Brawdy, and was initially a satellite investment. station supporting the heavy bomber aircraft stationed The main issue that has been raised with me time and nearby at RAF St Davids. again is the location, specifically the sheer distance of Following the end of the war, the base was handed Brawdy from the Royal Corps of Signals HQ at Blandford over to the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Navy, becoming in Dorset, or from the various UK regions from which a royal naval air station that was renamed RNAS Brawdy. the officers and soldiers of the regiment are primarily From 1963 to 1971, the Brawdy site was home to Fairey drawn. However, the temporary arrangement has Gannet anti-submarine aircraft and to Hawker Hunter now lasted a quarter of a century. The regiment is no fighter jets, demonstrating the base’s importance during longer seen as a somewhat mysterious outfit, dropped the cold war. The Royal Navy left Brawdy in 1971 and into Brawdy as a stopgap; it has become a deeply the base was allocated to the then Department of the embedded and respected part of the local community Environment. Three years later the strategic importance in Pembrokeshire. of the site was once again brought to the fore when the At this point it is worth saying what the 14th Signal RAF returned to the base for a second time and D Flight Regiment does. It is the Army’s cyber and electronic of 22 Squadron took up residence with its Westland warfare regiment. It has a unique role in providing a Whirlwind search and rescue helicopters. robust and sustainable electronic warfare capability to In 1974 the 229 operational conversion unit, with its support deployed armed forces, facilitating operations Hawker Hunters, relocated to Brawdy from RAF Chivenor in the electronic battle space. It is the only regiment in in Devon, which was earmarked for closure. In that year the British Army with these capabilities, and it bridges the United States and the UK agreed to the construction the gap between strategic cyber operations and tactical of a SOSUS sound surveillance system alongside the electronic warfare. RAF base at Brawdy, called a naval facilities engineering The soldiers based at Brawdy are at the cutting edge command. This US naval facility was to prove to be an of electronic warfare, an increasingly important aspect essential and critical part of the site at Brawdy in the of 21st century combat. Because of their unique set of years ahead. Due to Brawdy’s proximity to the sea, it capabilities, they have been used extensively on operations was an ideal location to house a station that monitored over the past 20 years, including those in Kosovo, Iraq, a growing number of underwater microphones designed Afghanistan and numerous other locations where their to pinpoint Soviet submarines as they moved out of activities, for very good reasons, will never be reported their waters and into the Atlantic, again underlining the on or discussed openly. They continue to be used in the base’s importance during the cold war. field even now.Operations Herrick and Telic in Afghanistan A US military footprint would remain at the base for and Iraq saw soldiers from the 14th Signal Regiment the next 20 years and, as with the RAF personnel based used heavily. It is common to meet men and women there, the Americans became a close-knit part of our from the regiment who completed two or three tours community in Pembrokeshire during that time. I myself away from their friends and family during that period. remember that at school, in the early-1980s, the American One of the biggest privileges in my time doing this children in our classrooms were the first people from job was in November 2006, when I attended the memorial outside Britain that many of us had come across. The service held in St Davids cathedral in my constituency end of the cold war brought large-scale changes to the for Corporal Peter Thorpe and Lance Corporal Jabron size and configuration of the armed forces, and that Hashmi, who were killed earlier that year in an attack affected Brawdy, along with many other sites. The naval by Taliban fighters in Helmand, Afghanistan. Both facilities engineering command facility was deactivated men had been serving with the 3rd Para Battlegroup in 1995 and the Americans soon left. but were either part of or attached to the 14th Signal 141WH Cawdor Barracks 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Cawdor Barracks 142WH

[Stephen Crabb] discussion about closure and relocation of the 14th Signal Regiment. The MOD’s plan set out its framework for Regiment. It was a privilege to meet members of their the defence estate to 2030; and in the plan, Cawdor families and the Army imam, who participated alongside barracks was identified as a “retained” site, which the the dean of the cathedral in the memorial service, MOD defines as a site because Lance Corporal Hashmi was the first British “where the future is not fully assured”. Muslim soldier to be killed during this era of conflict. In the same document, the idea of relocating the regiment Events such as this and the numerous homecoming was also first mooted, with it joining up with the also parades that have been held in St Davids and in relocated 10 Signals in Blandford, Dorset, in a process Haverfordwest, for the squadrons returning from tours called “pairing and sharing”. of duty, have helped to cement a bond of affection and A few years later, in March 2013, it was announced respect between the people of Pembrokeshire and this that the barracks were to close altogether and the remarkable regiment. The regiment has been awarded 14th Signal Regiment was to be moved on. The then the freedom of both the city of St Davids and the Defence Secretary, Philip Hammond, stated that the county town of Haverfordwest as testament to its MOD intended to close Cawdor barracks at Brawdy, contribution to our community and to our nation. The soldiers play an active part in the community, engaging “which is no longer fit for purpose”, with local schools, taking part in local Remembrance but “not before 2018”. The regiment would be relocated Day services and through annual charity concerts and to St Athan, near Cardiff. In the statement to the open days. Soldiers at Brawdy also play a full part in the House, the Secretary of State noted: sports and social life in our county, competing in local “The local communities in each of those areas have been rugby and football teams. hugely supportive of the military presence over many years. The loss of historic ties will be much regretted”.—[Official Report, Yesterday we debated the Welsh contribution to 5 March 2013; Vol. 559, c. 847.] the UK armed forces. Several hon. Members made the point that Wales should become home to one of the Two years later, in 2015, the MOD confirmed that the historic Welsh regiments—the Welsh Guards, the Queen’s regiment would not now be relocating to St Athan. In Dragoon Guards or the Royal Welsh Regiment. The fact, the former Minister, Mark Lancaster, indicated to 14th Signal Regiment is not an historic Welsh regiment, me that the closure plan was now off, although there but such is the bond of affection that it has formed with remained a vague long-term intention to relocate the communities in west Wales over the past quarter of a regiment and dispose of Cawdor barracks at some century that it has, in my eyes and the eyes of many in point in the future. my constituency, become a Welsh regiment. A bit further forward, in November 2016, the then About 250 Cawdor barracks personnel and their Defence Secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, said in a statement families are based in Pembrokeshire at any one time—the that the barracks would remain open to 2024, but with regiment has approximately 600 troops in total. I have no suggestion of where the 14 Signals would move to. heard it said a number of times that some of the officers During that statement, I questioned the Secretary of do not like being based so far west along the M4, in State and made the following point to him. I will read it deepest Pembrokeshire, but there is no question in my out for the benefit of my hon. Friend the Minister: mind but that the overwhelming majority of the soldiers, “I am disappointed that the earlier decision to shut the base of and especially their families, have really embraced the 14th Signal Regiment…in my constituency, which I was told a Pembrokeshire life. The spouses, partners and children year ago had been reversed, now seems to be back on the cards. That has all been unsettling for the soldiers at Cawdor barracks of those stationed at Cawdor barracks have become a and their families, who are a well-loved part of the Pembrokeshire hugely important part of the local community. community.” There is also a strong community in Pembrokeshire I asked: of veteran families—those who once served at the barracks, “Will my right hon. Friend provide a bit more detail of the or at the RAF base before that, and who have chosen to timeframe for the closure of the base, if it is indeed to happen? make Pembrokeshire their permanent home. Local schools Will he give an assurance that there will not be any freeze of have benefited from welcoming in the children of those investment and that the base will be maintained to an acceptable stationed at Cawdor barracks, with the local authority standard as we approach the closure date?” telling me that about 100 primary school and 25 secondary Michael Fallon responded: school pupils from serving families currently attend “I am certainly happy to discuss continuing investment in the schools in the county. facilities… The estimated disposal date for Cawdor barracks is I have had the pleasure of visiting the barracks on 2024, so I hope that that gives some more certainty to those who numerous occasions over the years and speaking to the support the Signal Regiment there. We are shortly to confirm soldiers stationed there, and what comes across to me is where the 14th Signal Regiment will be re-provided for.”—[Official that they genuinely enjoy being based in west Wales. Report, 7 November 2016; Vol. 616, c. 1295.] With the particular lifestyle that rural Pembrokeshire That decision was reinforced in 2018, when a Defence offers, the outdoor activities ranging from surfing to Minister, my right hon. Friend the Member for mountain biking and climbing, and the friendliness of Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), confirmed to the local people, it is little wonder that those who get all-party parliamentary group on general aviation that stationed at Cawdor barracks through the regiment Brawdy was one of 15 airfields across the UK being quickly fall in love with that part of Wales. sold off by the MOD, as they were “surplus to military That brings me to the plans for closing the facility. In requirements.” 2009, more than 10 years ago, publication of the MOD’s Clearly the whole saga has been very unsettling for “Defence Estate Development Plan” kick-started what the soldiers and their families, for the 30 civilians who has proved to be a long drawn-out “on-off, on-off” work at the base, for the county council, which has a 143WH Cawdor Barracks 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Cawdor Barracks 144WH responsibility to try to plan sensibly for the future, and the Minister—to end the cloud of uncertainty that has of course for the local communities affected. It is important been hanging over the barracks for the last 10 years and to bear in mind that, for my constituency, losing such a halt the closure plan, which has in any case shifted and facility will certainly result in an economic hit for the changed over the years and sown seeds of confusion. area. In 2015, in a review commissioned by Pembrokeshire My second ask is for the Minister to look again at the County Council and the Defence Infrastructure potential of the site and pursue a strategy of making it Organisation, the economic effects of the closure of fit for the future. Part of the reason why people will say Cawdor barracks on the county were estimated at between that it is no longer fit for purpose is that it has had £26 million and £30 million. That is a very significant nothing like the investment that such a critical and amount for a rural community such as Pembrokeshire, sensitive part of the Army requires. A closure plan that where there are very few employers of any significant has dragged on for 10 years already has resulted in the size. The local economy is dominated by agriculture site being starved of sensible investment. and seasonal tourism and hospitality. I have some further questions. If the Minister cannot There is of course the important question of what the fully satisfy me on the first two requests, will he confirm potential alternative uses might be for this site, with its that, in the event of closure, the MOD will work closely large runway,hangars, sports facilities and other buildings, with Pembrokeshire County Council to ensure that all located close to the national park. As interesting as specific actions are taken to mitigate the economic all those elements of the site are, the truth, unless this impact? Will he commit to ensuring that those 30 or Minister can inform me otherwise, is that over the past more civilians employed at Cawdor barracks will be five years there have been very few prospective buyers re-employed before the base closes? coming forward and offering any alternative ideas for Can the Minister explain how he thinks the Crichel the site. Therefore, we need to be realistic: whatever use Down rules will work in the case of Cawdor barracks to which the site is eventually put will in all likelihood and whether the requirement to offer the site back to not fill the economic gap left by the closure. the original owners may act as an impediment to investment What if the barracks were to close? I understand that proposals? The local authority has been looking at the land is subject to the Crichel Down rules. That numerous economic opportunities should the base close, could see Brawdy offered back to its original owners for but, as I said a few moments ago, very few serious agricultural use. Although agriculture is very important concrete proposals have come forward. in my constituency, returning the base to farmland I thank the Minister for taking the time to listen to would, I believe,not mitigate the loss of between £26 million my argument. He and I have discussed this issue before; and £30 million from the local economy. he is very familiar with that part of west Wales and Pembrokeshire County Council’s current local knows the community very well. He is also familiar with development plan, which is out for consultation, includes the work that the 14 Signals do. I thank him for the a proposal for an 11-hectare solar array for the Brawdy opportunity to set out a case for bringing this long-running site that would be producing up to 5 MW. However, the saga to an end, to provide some greater certainty for the size of any solar array is likely to be severely limited by soldiers and the forces family connected to the 14th Signal the existing grid connections in west Wales and the Regiment, and hopefully for retaining an important substantial cost of increasing the grid capacity, so that part of the armed forces footprint in west Wales. does not look particularly hopeful as it stands. In purely economic terms for my constituency,continued 4.21 pm use of the site as a base for the regiment is the optimal outcome, which is why I am asking the Minister, in the The Minister for Defence Procurement (Jeremy Quin): first instance, if he will consider not pressing ahead with I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for any closure plan but will instead recognise the value of Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) for securing this what has been created in Pembrokeshire over the last debate. Quite apart from his position as Chair of the 25 years in providing a home for the 14 Signals. Welsh Affairs Committee and his former role as Secretary I totally understand that this matter is not purely of State, he has an understandable interest in the future about economics; it is first and foremost about what of this long-established defence site, located in his beautiful works best for the British Army in the years and decades Preseli constituency. ahead. However, I will draw attention to the importance The barracks has been a feature of the Pembrokeshire of the armed forces footprint in Wales. The Brawdy site, coast since 1944 and, as my right hon. Friend set out, it like RAF Valley in north Wales, is one of those facilities has the unusual distinction of having served all three of that enables the MOD to claim that it has a genuine our armed services. It first served as an operational Wales-wide footprint. I know that the term “footprint” airfield for the RAF, which operated Liberator heavy gets defined ever more broadly to cover all kinds of bombers there during the second world war, as he set things, including suppliers to the armed forces, but if we out. It then served as a station for Royal Navy airborne are to use the term in its most meaningful way, we need early warning craft during the cold war. Finally, it has to be thinking about those elements that constitute a served as the home of the Army’s electronic warfare real presence on the ground, which create bonds of unit since the 1990s. The barracks has therefore played respect and affection with local communities, where the an important role in the military history of Pembrokeshire personnel are part of those communities.Cawdor barracks, as well as that of Wales more generally. out there in far west Wales, provides for exactly that. My right hon. Friend brought us up to date by I hope that this afternoon I have been able to explain eloquently describing the links between the community to you, Mr Sharma, and to the Minister the importance and the service personnel of the 14th Signal Regiment, of Cawdor barracks and to make a case for retaining and the respect and affection in which they are held. I the facility in my constituency. That is my first ask of recognise that both they and the base’s civilian employees 145WH Cawdor Barracks 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Cawdor Barracks 146WH

[Jeremy Quin] site in the near future and perhaps come and see the site for himself, but also take a moment with me to meet are important to the local economy. I therefore wholly Pembrokeshire County Council, to talk about the plans understand his concern about the effects of the November for closing the site and what steps need to be taken in 2016 announcement of Cawdor’sclosure. I also understand the years ahead, to ensure that that transfer happens that this has been a long story. The base’s closure was with minimal impact on my constituents and in the announced in November 2016, and I sympathise with most productive and useful way possible? his point that this has been a period of uncertainty for the community. Jeremy Quin: I can absolutely commit to meeting my However, I must tell my right hon. Friend, with right hon. Friend here at Westminster. I would like to regret, that the intent to dispose of the barracks remains. take the opportunity to visit the site and talk to the The armed forces are now 30% smaller than at the end county council, but I cannot commit wholly to that—he of the last century, but the defence estate has not yet will appreciate the pressures on diaries right at the start been proportionately reduced in size. In many areas we of one’s time in post. I would like to visit, and I will use our defence estate efficiently, but overall it is too certainly make myself available in Westminster to speak big, too expensive and has too many sites to maintain. to him about the application. That is why in the 2015 strategic defence and security I would also like to talk to my right hon. Friend review we committed to investing in a smaller, but about the Crichel Down rules. Those rules normally optimised and efficient, defence estate. Military capability apply only where sites are undeveloped, but that is outputs have been at the heart of our defence estate something that we can take up and talk about in the strategy, and we are taking a transformational approach context of this site, if that is helpful. As I have just to better support the future requirements of our armed outlined, we will work with the county council and that forces by generating special centres of specialisation work will inform the engagement that we will also have and capability clusters. with the Welsh Government, with the office of my right Consolidating the defence estate enables the Ministry hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales and others of Defence to concentrate its assets,investing in significantly on the potential alternative uses of the site. better facilities to support the men and women of our The decision to close Cawdor barracks is an operational armed forces. The Cawdor site, designed for the needs one, driven by the needs of the armed services, but it is of the second world war and the cold war that followed, no reflection on the Government’s strong commitment is sadly no longer fit for the vital and increasingly to maximising the contribution of Wales to the defence central purposes of electronic and cyber-warfare in the of the UK and maximising the benefits of the defence 21st century. Nor does the unit’s geographic location sector there. On the contrary, as my right hon. Friend, provide the easy synergies that the regiment needs with the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney the units and organisations that it supports. We must (Gerald Jones) and I, along with many other hon. ensure that the regiment can maximise its operational Members, discussed in yesterday’s debate, Wales has capabilities. made a first-rate contribution to the defence of the The Government understand the strength of feeling realm, and we are determined to maximise the benefits in those local communities impacted by the relocation of the defence sector there. of military units, here and elsewhere, and the deep-rooted To conclude, closures of established military bases histories and ties that are thereby sadly broken. I can inevitably have consequences for local communities, reassure my right hon. Friend that careful consideration and my right hon. Friend has drawn that to our attention. is being given to alternative uses for the site, with the Over recent years the Government have had to make a aim of increasing the commercial use, driving regeneration number of such difficult decisions in respect of bases and creating local jobs. We have a little time, given that around the UK. Our armed forces need facilities the earliest date for closure is anticipated to be 2024, and accommodation that fully meet their operational and I absolutely commit that my Department will work needs. However, we recognise that the closure of this closely with Pembrokeshire County Council on potential long-established site will inevitably have impacts on future uses. Pembrokeshire beyond the defence community. That is why my Department is working actively with the local Stephen Crabb: I am very interested in everything the authority and others to identify the most beneficial Minister is saying. Can he give me a commitment this future use of the site. I commit myself to continuing to afternoon that in his new ministerial capacity—he is do so, with the help and assistance of my right hon. doing a great job in the Department, by the way—he Friend. will take the opportunity to visit the Cawdor Barracks Question put and agreed to. 147WH 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 148WH Regulatory Divergence UK Chemical Industry: on this subject and in support of people who work in Regulatory Divergence the industry. I will come on to make the point that he touches on in more detail. REACH regulations protect human health and the 4.29 pm environment. In chemical regulation, the high standards Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): I beg to move, for chemicals used in our manufacturing also sustain That this House has considered regulatory divergence in the the reputation that encourages people around the world UK chemical industry. to buy British. Before the current Prime Minister took over, the Government indicated a willingness to negotiate If we buy a car, house, cleaning products, food or associate membership of REACH, and that is still the clothes or visit the swimming pool or cinema, chemicals preferred option for the industry. The system delivers are involved in making the products we use. Chemicals assurance to the industry and its downstream operations, are ubiquitous in our lives, and the chemical industry is including our entire manufacturing sector, all of which a vital part of our national economic wellbeing. Chemicals uses chemicals at some stage of production. are vital to the jobs of thousands of workers. Contract Chemicals is an SME in Knowsley that manufactures chemicals, and Blends is another that sells products Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I congratulate made from chemicals. Both employ some of my my hon. Friend on securing the debate. I too represent a constituents, whose livelihoods could be at risk if the number of chemical companies in my constituency. He Government do not get the chemical regulatory regime is right to draw attention to the administrative benefits right. In the Liverpool city region, Jaguar Land Rover, of remaining associated with the REACH regime, but Ford and Vauxhall employ thousands of workers in car also to the cost implications. Companies based in my production in which chemicals are vital components. constituency make the point that they have spent a Without a robust system of regulation, safety and quality considerable sum on REACH registration. Having to will be compromised and our chemicals market will be register for a new scheme at similar cost will make their open to the dumping of cheap chemicals from markets businesses unviable in some cases, or may lead them to that do not have our high standards. relocate to EU countries. The consequences of poor regulation are spelled out in “Dark Waters”, which will be released on Friday in Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I the UK. The film depicts what can happen to tens of have been told that estimated costs of between £50,000 thousands of people and to wildlife without adequate and £100,000 per chemical are likely if a UK REACH safeguards. In our addressing the climate crisis and system is introduced in the way the Government appear moving to net zero, the chemical industry has a vital to be proposing. I will cover that in more detail as well. role to play in ending the use of fossil fuels, recycling plastics and finding sustainable alternatives, including The Government have made clear their opposition to for the types of forever chemicals depicted in the film. regulatory alignment in general, and given that UK REACH is the default option, they appear to not want The chemical industry employs 102,000 well-paid to make an exception for the chemical industry. The people in the UK, with 24,000 in the north-west alone. British Coatings Federation speaks of the practical and The industry is worth £31.4 billion in exports and real problems that businesses will face with such a £34.6 billion in imports, and its products feature in their system. For example, REACH will continue to apply in thousands in the production of goods across the entire Northern Ireland at the end of the transition period, economy. Some 57% of those exports are into the EU. even if a separate UK-based regime applies in the rest The importance of the industry around the country is of the UK. It is not yet clear how that would work in also spelled out by the productivity of the sector compared practice. There is obvious concern that EU and UK with the rest of the economy. In the north-east, it is REACH will, in theory, apply at the same time in three times more productive; in the north-west, four Northern Ireland and will contradict each other. and a half times more productive; and nationally, it is twice as productive. We cannot afford to undermine Let me quantify my hon. Friend’s point. BASF employs such a key part of our economy. 5,000 people in the UK. It estimates that it will have to Chemicals are the subject of REACH—the registration, find up to £70 million to re-register all existing lines. Its evaluation, authorisation and restriction of chemicals—the alternative is not to offer many of its smaller volume strict European-wide regulations that make sure the products in the UK, but many are critical to manufacturing. chemicals used here are the safest in the world and help In the car industry, an average of 1,300 different chemicals to produce the highest quality products. are used in the production of each vehicle. If many of those products are not available in the UK, car manufacturers will have to import them; it will fall to Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): My hon. car companies to register the chemicals and to develop Friend rightly says that REACH regulations are central the skills and facilities for storage. This would apply to to chemical production not only in this country but all chemicals where usage volume was more than 1 tonne across Europe. Does he share my concern, and that of per year. Registration costs of £50,000 to £100,000 per companies in my constituency, that without the same chemical are likely to apply, as the Government have REACH regulations in Britain as in Europe, the movement confirmed. At that cost, chemical companies would of chemicals between countries will be inhibited? find it uneconomic to continue the production or import of many chemicals. Meanwhile, car producers would Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I find it much harder to compete with EU-located production know he has a good relationship with the chemical facilities in the manufacture of vehicles destined for industry in the north-east and has spoken many times the EU market. 149WH UK Chemical Industry: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 150WH Regulatory Divergence Regulatory Divergence [Bill Esterson] Despite the Government’s presumption in favour of regulatory divergence in general, the Minister may want The chemical industry exports 57% of UK-manufactured to say that the Government do not intend to change the chemicals to the EU27. A UK manufacturer will have regulations that are introduced with a UK REACH. I to register its products to comply with UK REACH, as am interested to hear her comments on that point. The they are made here, and also EU REACH if they are suspicion that divergence is likely has been reinforced exported into the EU. If our regulations diverge, as the by part 8 of the Environment Bill, which gives the Prime Minister appears to favour, and as may be required Secretary of State the powers to diverge. If the Government as the price of a trade deal with the United States, do not intend to change the regulations, why have that manufacturers would need not only to demonstrate in the Bill? In his speech on Second Reading this compliance with both sets of regulations but have two afternoon, the Secretary of State did not mention production lines—one to comply with UK regulations, the section of the Bill that deals with regulation of the the other for the EU’s. The alternative is to move chemical industry, which is disappointing because the production to the EU for the EU-compliant product, industry is so vital to the wider economy. Likewise it is meaning a loss of exports and jobs from the UK. disappointing to the industry and those who rely on it that there is no news about a sector deal for the chemical Alex Cunningham: Will my hon. Friend give way? industry.

Kate Green: Will my hon. Friend give way? Alex Cunningham: Perhaps that was not mentioned Bill Esterson: I am spoiled for choice. I will give way because the Government have seen sense and realised first to my nearer neighbour. that they cannot have these tremendous changes. This is about not just day one—when we might say, “We will Kate Green: Your north-west friend. have the same regulations on day one”—but the future regulations, because every day something changes in the Bill Esterson: My north-west friend; there we are. REACH regime, which means one part of a process may no longer be compliant in Europe and Britain at Kate Green: I am grateful. My hon. Friend rightly the same time. Therefore, we need to ensure we have highlights cost issues and the potential need to register common regulation across the piece. through two different regimes,which would bring additional administrative complexity. He will be interested to know Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend has explained well why that a chemical company in my constituency has also the industry is worried about this: sooner or later divergence drawn attention to the need for extra testing if there is a leads to the problems that he and I have outlined. need to comply with two different regimes, including Some 54.8% of cars produced in the UK are extra testing on animals,which I think would be particularly exported to the EU, so preferential access to the European unwelcome to the British public. market and avoiding regulatory divergence on chemicals is therefore extremely important. The automotive industry Bill Esterson: I am glad my hon. Friend mentioned uses 13,000 chemical substances, only 1,181 of which the real concern about animal testing, which we can are exclusively registered by UK companies. Many of minimise currently because we are members of EU the remaining 98,000 chemicals registered by the European REACH, so testing does not need to be repeated in the REACH system could need to be re-registered in the UK. The industry has raised that as a real concern, UK. According to the Society of Motor Manufacturers which I will return to. and Traders, the cost to the automotive industry alone could be up to £1.3 billion. The Government have not Alex Cunningham: Both my hon. Friends are right to denied those figures in their own analysis. The car raise the issue of cost. One company in my constituency industry is deeply concerned about the impact on its is already up against it trying to making any profit at all competitiveness and on the future of volume car because the regime is changing for carbon credits. The manufacturing in the UK if we move away from a single current proposals mean it will soon no longer receive European regulatory system. the relief it currently does. That company is a supplier to other chemical companies within my constituency UK REACH will either require access to the chemical and elsewhere, so if it falls over and that product is no testing data, as my hon. Friends mentioned, held by the longer available, there will be a knock-on effect on European Chemicals Agency, or have to repeat and many jobs across the area. Does my hon. Friend agree duplicate testing, hence the cost of registration for each that this is another reason that we cannot have the substance, which I quoted earlier. Consortia of European divergence that the Prime Minister seems to favour? companies own most of the data, and UK companies pay a fee for access to the data, which is held by the Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend has explained well that ECHA. Selling access to the data is a commercial the problem goes across the economy because chemicals decision not governed by EU data sharing rules. are crucial to every manufacturing process. The Health and Safety Executive, which is due to I was talking about the problem of having to comply become the UK chemicals agency—perhaps the Minister with two different sets of regulations and the impact can clarify when that will happen—will need to build its the industry predicts, including a loss of exports and own database if it cannot access the ECHA database. jobs in the UK. Products cross borders multiple times According to the plans for UK REACH set out in the during manufacturing. The integrated nature of supply European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, chains in manufacturing is a big reason why it would be basic data about the market and each substance will difficult to manufacture in the UK for the EU market in need to be submitted within 120 days of the end of the event of different chemical regulations. transition, while full information appropriate to the 151WH UK Chemical Industry: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 152WH Regulatory Divergence Regulatory Divergence registrant’s tonnage band will need to be submitted the use of that chemical in aircraft structures. It is within two years. It took 10 years to build the ECHA produced in the UK and marketed in the EU. It is database. How can that be replicated in two years, given registered with REACH, so if the UK is removed from that many companies will have to carry out testing from REACH, the registration would become non-existent scratch and many importers are not specialists in the and it would not be possible to import or sell it in the chemical industry? EU, to manufacture the mixture or to apply it to aerospace Concerns have also been raised about the capacity of components. That would cause huge commercial damage the HSE and the legal framework it will follow. It could to the aerospace industry in the UK and in the EU. either repeat the work of ECHA or rely on the work That story is repeated many times for UK-manufactured ECHA has carried out. The former would be hugely chemicals, so what is the plan for products like potassium expensive, time consuming and dependent on a level of dichromate and for aircraft manufacturing? What is the scientific expertise that may not be available. The latter plan for the regions that rely on the chemical industry could leave it open to challenge on the grounds that it for their productivity? What is the plan for all other should not be reliant on EU evidence and should have industries that rely on chemicals in their processes? made its own assessment of risk. Either approach is What is the plan for multiple cross-border manufacturing potentially problematic. supply chains? What is the plan for exports and imports, An additional concern of the industry is that, as for safety, for data analysis, for testing and scientific some registration of chemicals in REACH has relied on expertise, including animal testing, for the creation of animal testing, a UK REACH would mean the introduction an alternative database, or for access to the existing of animal testing—a point my hon. Friend the Member ECHA database? What is the plan for capacity and for Stretford and Urmston made earlier. Steve Elliot, expertise in the HSE? What is the plan for a sector deal? the chief executive of the Chemical Industries Association, Tell us, Minister, what is the plan? said “The EU remains our biggest customer and supplier, so securing 4.52 pm a tariff-free, frictionless free trade agreement is essential. Most crucially creating a parallel UK regulatory regime for chemicals, Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP): I am very happy to whilst still needing to meet the legal requirements of our biggest sum up for the Scottish National party in this important market place under EU REACH will, in our view, bring no debate, whose importance belies its attendance. In the commercial or environmental benefit and could put businesses first instance, I echo the sentiments of the hon. Member and jobs at risk right across the country, including seeing a whole for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson), who secured the new programme of animal testing, something that none of us debate, by pointing out that little or no manufacturing wants to happen.” takes place without almost total dependence on the In a written answer on 4 February, the Under-Secretary chemical manufacturing sector and the regulation that of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the underpins that—both domestically in the United Kingdom hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow), said and, just as importantly, around the world. that UK REACH will maintain the “aims and principles” Across all manufacturing sectors, we see the clearest of EU REACH. In the light of the industry’s importance, indications from stakeholders, whether commercial, trade is that not an argument for staying part of the current union or in processing, that we live in a world of very system and avoiding the problems of implementing a integrated international supply chains, and we have separate version? In a recent British Coatings Federation done for some time. They are dependent on regulatory members survey, 90% of members expressed their fear alignment. It is also worth pointing out the amount of of having a duplicate set of chemical regulations through research and development money that goes into the a UK REACH and all the extra bureaucracy and costs chemical industry, much of it private—how that interacts that would bring. The BCF said: with our higher education sector, the role the United “We need government to understand the complexity of the Kingdom plays in that and how we discharge that role integrated chemicals supply chain and come up with an appropriate with our international partners, many of whom are in free trade deal to prevent—or at least minimise—substantially added costs or disruption to our members.” the European Union. I place on record my thanks to the Chemical Industries Alex Cunningham: The hon. Member mentions research Association, the British Coatings Federation, the Chemical and development, and we are of course dealing with Business Association, the Society of Motor Manufacturers multinational companies with plants all over the world. and Traders, the ADS group, the CHEM Trust, BASF If they are going to do research and development, and multiple trade unions, as well as the specialists of surely they will do that in areas where they have common the House of Commons Library. They have all helped regulations such as REACH, rather than in a future with this complex, technically demanding subject. They British chemical industry, which could be a backwater. have all helped confirm just how serious the issue is for our economy and for safety, too. I hope the Minister Dave Doogan: The hon. Member is right, and the risk and her colleagues are listening to their advice. that the United Kingdom runs in seeking to pursue Steve Elliott of the CIA said: some alternate regulatory framework is exactly as he “The isolationist approach doesn’t work for us. I can’t think of sets out: industry will produce its products to be compliant a member company who isn’t exporting at least 50/60 per cent with the regulation consistent with the size of the of its production.” market opportunity—it is not a blanket approach. If a We have to remember that most of that exporting is market is subject to a particular regulatory framework, into the EU. ADS gave me the example of potassium but that market is not big enough for the industry to dichromate, which is a crucial chemical coating that comply with the framework, they simply will not comply protects aircraft structures from corroding. The example and those products will not be available in a post-Brexit, makes Mr Elliott’s case: there is no viable alternative to post-REACH-regulation United Kingdom. 153WH UK Chemical Industry: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 154WH Regulatory Divergence Regulatory Divergence [Dave Doogan] large and important GlaxoSmithKline plant. Nowhere does interdependence and mutual reliance on common As we roll the dice on this issue, it is important to regulation apply more than in that plant. understand the slightly rarefied position occupied by the chemical industry in the United Kingdom. It has a Alex Cunningham: INEOS has been in my constituency turnover of £56.6 billion, but a very enviable gross value as well, but it is actually closing down a plant there; the added of £19.2 billion. The Government must tread plant has finished because it is past its use-by date. carefully and pay close attention to the members within INEOS can invest billions of pounds in the middle east, trade organisations, such as the Chemical Industries but nothing in Britain at this time. For me, the main Association and others, who are very clear with their issue is what the hon. Gentleman has talked about: the call for regulatory alignment. integrated nature of the chemical industry. The industry We have heard an awful lot about the cost of the is losing a key component; if there are changes in re-creation of some successor to EU REACH, which is regulations over time, more and more of those parts as yet unspecified, but I genuinely, thoroughly believe will disappear. We will therefore be reliant on the imports that the point is moot. As Members have said, the that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. industry will offshore the UK manufacturing of chemicals. Other industries within the UK that rely on the products Dave Doogan: Indeed. I am not here to defend or of the chemical industry will be subject to buying from uphold the commercial decisions of INEOS, but what another market. That will in all likelihood be the European the industry more generally needs at this minute is Union, so we will then face the farcical situation of clarity and certainty from Government, as far as that is having dispensed with REACH regulations here—which possible. I look forward to the Minister explaining how will have cost us our industry, or a large part of it—and the Government will give the industry the confidence of then being in possession of the very same standard and certainty that will enable them to invest in plants in of product purchased from the EU, just without the Scotland and the rest of the UK. Those plants’ return £56.6 billion of turnover, or a large part thereof, and the on investment may take decades, and it is extremely jobs that went with it. The stakes are no lower than that! important that we give them every opportunity to invest Having said that, were the UK to press ahead with some in infrastructure and jobs, with the attendant benefits parallel regulatory framework for chemicals, the resultant that those bring to our communities. animal testing, as others have mentioned, would be held Over and above the material contemporary in contempt by society, and rightly so. It is important to considerations of the chemical industry, this issue is bear that in mind. important for the livelihoods of many people in Scotland The regulation and supply of chemicals is yet another and in my constituency of Angus. Of course, industrial area of huge complexity in that Brexit ambition. Brexit production of chemicals first began in Scotland, with will have an impact on the chemical industry driven by the industrial production of bleach just north of Glasgow. changingregulatoryrequirements,asothershavementioned, We have moved a long way in the intervening 150 years, and by other trade barriers, potentially including tariffs and I would hate for us to start moving back as a and quotas. The REACH chemicals regulations are but consequence of Brexit. one example of directly applicable EU legislation that is not straightforward to copy across into UK law. The 5.1 pm principal objective remains, however, to ensure that Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to those regulations still have priority in a post-Brexit serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr Sharma, United Kingdom dynamic. That is because the regulations and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for rely on the European Chemicals Agency and are closely Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) for having secured this tied to the needs of the single market. The UK and EU important debate. I also welcome the Minister to her chemical industries both want trade deals to ensure new position; I know she takes a keen interest in green frictionless trade and regulatory consistency between issues and in waste, and I look forward to hearing her the UK and the EU. That points to the complex supply response on chemical regulation in a post-Brexit UK. I chains that exist for the manufacturing sector. expect it will be very interesting. I am very glad that the hon. Member for Sefton This has been an informative debate. Obviously, we Central, who secured the debate, mentioned potassium have experts in the room: I bow before their expert chromate. As a former aircraft engineer, I still remember knowledge, which has brought things together much keenly the sweet smell of that sticky green substance more coherently for me. I will leave the Chamber with which was difficult to get out from under the fingernails. much more knowledge than I came in with, for which I Its role in preventing dissimilar metal corrosion in thank the Members who have spoken. aircraft is well known and vital. That had the effect of One thing that we already knew before coming here taking me slightly down memory lane. was that our departure from the European Union would In conclusion, as a Scottish and a Scottish National change how we do business, how our country functions, party MP,I have no hesitation in supporting the ambitions and how we ensure that chemical regulation in the UK of the hon. Member. The UK is a key global player in is going to be fit for purpose in the years ahead. Although the chemical industries just now. As far as I can tell, the this may seem like a niche issue, it has been clearly only chemical company in the UK in the top five articulated that chemical regulation is going to have a chemical companies in the world is INEOS, which wide impact on the UK as a whole, so we must take that has a major presence in Grangemouth in Scotland. on board and make sure we deal with it carefully. We on The Chemical Industries Association also covers the the Opposition Benches echo the concerns of the chemical pharmaceutical industry, and I am very privileged to industry and the Royal Society of Chemistry. On this have in my constituency of Angus an extraordinarily and many other issues, we ask the Government to be 155WH UK Chemical Industry: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 156WH Regulatory Divergence Regulatory Divergence wise and careful when it comes to diverging from the do all they can to avoid that sort of duplication and standards and regulations that consumers, industry and deliver the essential solutions required to grow the our global partners have come to expect here in the environmental, social and economic performance of United Kingdom. our country. As we have heard, chemicals manufacturing supply I pay tribute to the Chemical Industries Association chains are well established, with materials often crossing for its work on this issue. It has made clear that securing the channel several times for some of the most complex a deal with the European Union that guarantees tariff-free products. Even the most minimal tariffs that would trade, regulatory alignment and access to skilled people apply if the Government crash us out with no deal, continues to be of critical importance for the chemical combined with the requirement to respond to separate industry, which will rely on our future relationship regulatory regimes and the need for documents to precede being as frictionless as possible. foods at borders, would have a negative impact on I hope the Minister will address many of the concerns future manufacturing supply chains and strategies in highlighted today, particularly about the willingness to the UK. inflict damage on our industries through a policy of The Government are starting their approach to the divergence. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for coming months from the negotiating position that there Sefton Central for having brought this issue before the will be no dynamic alignment with EU regulations in a House, and look forward to working with him and the new UK-EU trade deal, and have indicated that divergence sector on this important issue in the weeks and months will feature heavily. I am particularly concerned that the ahead. Government have not indicated an intention to seek close co-operation with the European Chemicals Agency. Regulatory divergence has the real potential to severely 5.7 pm impact the quality and strength of public health and environmental protections. We should be levelling up, TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof StateforEnvironment, not cutting ties. Food and Rural Affairs (Victoria Prentis): It is a great As the Royal Society of Chemistry and others have pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. said, it is important for the Government to be conscious I welcome the hon. Member for Newport West (Ruth of divergent sources of data. Harmful divergence could Jones) to her place, and look forward to many happy occur if the evidence base is not harmonised, so a new hours spent together discussing interests that have always and binding legal agreement is needed in order to engagedusboth,particularlythoseinvolvingtheenvironment continue sharing commercially sensitive data between and food waste. authorities in the UK and the European Chemicals I congratulate the hon. Member for Sefton Central Agency. (Bill Esterson) on securing this important debate. As he I reiterate to the Minister and to Members on the made clear, our chemical sector is world leading and Government Benches that hurried divergence, done in vital to a wide range of other key industries, such as order to pretend to the British people that everything pharmaceuticals, automotive and aerospace. He gave will be done and dusted by the end of 2020, will be some good examples from his own constituency and dangerous and reckless. If all we see are quick, short-term demonstrated his knowledge of how important that is, economic international trade wins or speedily rolled-out as did other Members present. We all know that the innovations, the people out there will know what the chemical industry is an important one, and want to Government are up to.I do not want lowered environmental ensure it continues to succeed. protections or a risk to public health in Banbury, in In 2018, the total trade in chemicals in the UK, Newport West, or in any other part of our United including chemical products, was worth £60.2 billion. Kingdom. The UK chemical sector directly employs more than I share the concerns of my colleagues on the Opposition 100,000 people. That sector is an important part of the Benches, particularly my hon. Friends the Members for economy in all the UK regions, with some major chemical Sefton Central, for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) clusters that are,unsurprisingly,represented in the Chamber and for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green), as well as today.They include Teesside, Humberside, Southampton, those of the hon. Member for Angus (Dave Doogan) Grangemouth—mentioned by the hon. Member for —it is a shame that his constituency does not also begin Angus (Dave Doogan), whom I welcome to his place—and with an “S”; that would have been much more north-west England, which has the highest number of alliterative—about the economic impact on British industry employees in the sector, with some 24,000 people in the if divergence leads to negative consequences for our region working in the chemical industry. ability to trade products with the European Union. Leaving the EU provides us with a unique opportunity The Government also need to be careful about what to develop a regulatory environment that will not only their approach means for business and industry, because deliver the high standards mentioned by the hon. Member they could land up doubling the burden on business and for Newport West, but be flexible according to our industry through masses of extra regulation. For example, current and future needs. Now that we have left the EU, the REACH regulation refers to the EU regulations on our priority is to maintain an effective regulatory system chemicals, as has been clearly articulated by all Members for the management and control of chemicals, to safeguard who have spoken this afternoon. The extra cost to UK human health and the environment, and to respond to businesses of duplicating EU REACH in the United emerging risks. We need to ensure that our chemical Kingdom after the transition period is estimated by the industry continues to flourish in the UK and abroad, Chemical Industries Association to be in excess of building on our strong trading links with the EU and £1 billion, without anyenvironmental benefit and potentially seizing new export opportunities now we have the freedom forcing duplicate testing. We call on the Government to to trade with the rest of the world. 157WH UK Chemical Industry: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 158WH Regulatory Divergence Regulatory Divergence Alex Cunningham: I, too, welcome the Minister to her The building blocks of REACH will all remain. place. I hope that she will accept an early invitation to Through the Environment Bill, we will make provision Teesside, which I extend to my hon. Friend the Member to allow us to amend REACH in future to ensure that for Newport West (Ruth Jones). As a lawyer, the Minister our chemicals management remains fully up to date. All knows that the EU REACH regulation is extremely change will remain consistent with the fundamental complicated. What on earth are the impediments to aims and principles enshrined in EU REACH. There simply adopting it? What is the additional flexibility will also be a series of protected provisions that cannot that she talks about that we actually need to trade with be changed, such as the last resort principle on animal the rest of the world? testing, which will be included in the Environment Bill, as has been said. The UK will, of course, continue to be at the forefront of opposing animal tests where alternative Victoria Prentis: As a lawyer, I tell the hon. Gentleman approaches can be used. We have led the way on that in that that is an extremely long and complicated question, the EU system to date. to which I will endeavour to provide some of the answers, but not all, because, as he knows, it is a live I recognise the concerns that several hon. Members negotiating situation. I recognise that that brings uncertainty have raised during the debate about the UK diverging for business—I really do—which is uncomfortable for from the approach taken in the EU to the regulation of many of us, but it is important that the country voted to chemicals, which are obviously shared by all our leave the EU and through various—[Interruption.] The stakeholders. We will not diverge for the sake of it. If we hon. Gentleman has been here for the last few years, diverge, it will be done in the best interests of the UK as I have. and the environment, and of course we will take account of the impact on industry. What matters is that the Through various emanations, we have reached a position decisions we take will be our own, reflecting our new where we are definitely leaving the single market and the autonomy. Robust scientific evidence lies at the heart of customs union, and we will no longer participate in the the decisions we take, and that will continue, as provided ECHA or the EU regulatory framework for chemicals. I for in the UK REACH legislation. As I said, we are will set out what the Government’s position is in the continuing to develop the proposals, to make sure that immediate future. I ask the hon. Gentleman to accept we take decisions transparently and with stakeholder that we do not have all the answers, but I emphasise that engagement. I am keen that we go forward in that vein. my door, and the door of the Minister with responsibility for the issue, will be open as we go through the negotiations this year. Alex Cunningham: I bear in mind what the Minister is saying, but it frightens the life out of me, because the regulation changes every day. I do not know how we Dave Doogan: It is helpful and candid of the Minister will manage to keep pace with that in Britain. Industry to clarify that the Government do not have all the will incur considerably greater costs as a result of the answers. In pursuit of those answers, may I ask whether changes. What assistance will the Government give to the Minister and her officials will give due cognisance to chemical companies and the chemical industry as a the fact that the scale of the European chemical industry, whole to overcome the additional burden that the and the regulation that underpins it, is the global Government are placing on them? benchmark? A UK post-Brexit chemical industry would divest from that at its peril. Victoria Prentis: While I am unable to tell the hon. Gentleman exactly where we will end up, I am also Victoria Prentis: In many ways, the hon. Gentleman unable to answer that question as fully as it deserves. If will find that we are on exactly the same page, so I ask I may, I will continue to tell him where we are now. As him to listen to the rest of what I have to say. We can matters progress with the negotiations, I remain willing then discuss the position as it emerges in the negotiations to talk to him about specific industry difficulties, and I this year. am sure the Department for Business,Energy and Industrial Strategy will too. As I said, we are leaving the single market and the customs union, so we need to prepare for life outside at the end of this year. Many in the sector have already Alex Cunningham: Will the Minister give way again? started to prepare and we will help them as much as we can. First, we must create our own independent regulatory Victoria Prentis: I think I had better carry on, if the regime, which is called UK REACH, as we have heard. hon. Gentleman is happy. Hon. Members will note that that is not a million miles away from the name of EU REACH. That will ensure Alex Cunningham: The hon. Gentleman is not happy. continuity and minimise disruption for businesses and consumers, and will give us the freedom to do things differently where we consider that in our best interest. Victoria Prentis: Well, as we have time, I will make UK REACH will be our own framework but will retain the hon. Gentleman happy. the fundamental approach of REACH, including its aims of ensuring a high level of protection for human Alex Cunningham: I am grateful to the Minister for health and the environment, and of enhancing innovation giving way.She says that she cannot answer the questions, and competitiveness. We have developed transitional but they are the questions that the chemical industry is measures, such as grandfathering and downstream user asking us. We are talking about a matter of months import notifications, that address the industry’s concerns before the changes actually kick in and affect industry about maintaining continuity of supply between the in this country. That involves thousands of jobs in my UK and Europe. constituency and tens of thousands across the country, 159WH UK Chemical Industry: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 160WH Regulatory Divergence Regulatory Divergence so I am naturally anxious, and I can understand the exports and 54% of car exports go to the EU market; industry being anxious as well. When are we going to the role of chemicals with the correct regulatory registration get some answers? will be vital, as will approval for the European market. Will she address the export problem that is faced both Victoria Prentis: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s directly in the chemical industry and, more generally, in anxiety. What I will say to reassure him, in so far as I industries whose products contain chemicals—not just can in a live negotiating situation, is that we will avoid the car industry—in having these two systems? change for change’s sake. We will do our best. We are fully cognisant of the need to minimise the burdens on Victoria Prentis: As the hon. Member says, the export business. That lies at the absolute heart of all that we market is very important. There are exports worth are doing to put UK REACH in place. £28.3 billion, with 57% of that going to the EU and Let me give the hon. Gentleman an example. In 43% going elsewhere. It is clearly important that we get building the UK REACH IT system, we have made sure to the end of our trade negotiations as soon as possible, that it will work very much like the ECHA REACH IT so that certainty can be provided. He knows as well as I system, including the same software requirements and do that the situation is fluid at the moment, and I am many of the processes that businesses have been using unable to give him all the answers he seeks. What I can and understand. I am aware that we will require businesses say is that we have a new and exciting chemicals strategy, to provide us with the data that supports their registrations. on which we will be consulting. I understand the concern that that may not be as Alex Cunningham: I have a very simple, straightforward straightforward as they would like and may generate question. Will we accept European REACH regulations costs. That is why we have introduced the transitional for imported goods, or will they also have to be compliant arrangements that I mentioned earlier,which give businesses with the UK REACH regulations? Will we just accept two years, starting from the end this year, to provide that products coming in are fine because they are covered that information. We will keep those timeframes closely by EU REACH, when we have our own independent under review. regime as well? We are often asked why we need the data and why information that has already been provided to the ECHA Victoria Prentis: As a new Minister, I am not sure needs to be reprovided to UK REACH. In short, we that I am qualified to answer that question properly. need it because we will not be able to rely on the fact Alex Cunningham: Will the Minister write to me? that the data has already been sent to the ECHA. Registration is how a company shows its understanding Victoria Prentis: Yes, absolutely. I undertake to write of the hazards and risks of a chemical. It does not mean to the hon. Gentleman with the correct answer. It is that the ECHA has, in legal terms, approved a chemical really important that we do not misspeak at this point or endorsed it as safe. The data is necessary for any of a live trade negotiation. I am also conscious that the regulator, such as the Health and Safety Executive, to matter is not directly within my brief but within that of operate an effective regulatory regime, to understand the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural the hazards and risks of chemicals, and to ensure their Affairs, who is currently leading the debate on Second safe use. We are making sure that the HSE as the UK Reading of the Environment Bill in the main Chamber. regulator, the Environment Agency and the Department I do not want to answer that question without full for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs have the instructions, for which I apologise. resources and evidence they need to ensure the safe I thank the hon. Member for Sefton Central for securing management of chemicals and to protect public health a debate on this important industry at this critical time and the environment. in the negotiations and for stressing that it is important With the UN projecting a doubling in the size of the that we do not diverge for the sake of it, and that we global chemicals industry by 2030, it matters more than ensure we have a regulatory regime that works for us ever that the UK continues to be a world leader in the and fulfils all the aims we hope for, and that makes life management and regulation of chemicals. Our as easy as we can for people who work in the chemical internationally recognised scientific expertise and evidence- industry, including those in his constituency. led, risk-based approach give us a strong and influential voice as we advocate for ambitious global action on 5.24 pm chemicals and waste management after 2020. Bill Esterson: I thank all hon. Members who have I want to finish by saying something about the chemicals taken part in the debate for their comments. I appreciate strategy we are developing, which will set out our the Minister’s difficulty in giving fuller answers, and I priorities and approach to domestic regulation now that take her point that it is important not to speak in the we have left the EU. It will be our first such strategy for middle of negotiations. I am glad that we are in the 20 years. We aim to drive sustainability, circularity and middle of negotiations and that they have actually innovation in the chemicals industry, while protecting started, because the reports lead us to question whether human health and the environment from harmful chemical we are even at that stage. Time is rapidly running exposure. A call for evidence will be published very out—an important point that needs to be reiterated. shortly—this spring—and we will then undertake a The Minister talked about divergence. Is not one of public consultation on a draft strategy before its final the problems that once we give ourselves the ability to publication, which is scheduled for 2021-22. We genuinely diverge, the assumption is that clarification can be given want to hear from the industry. to enable the import and export of chemicals, or anything containing chemicals, only through having two sets of Bill Esterson: I am grateful for some of the answers regulations? That is one of the main reasons why the that the Minister has given, but one of the points she industry is so concerned about moving away from being has not addressed is exports. Some 57% of UK chemical part of EU REACH, either as an associate member or 161WH UK Chemical Industry: 26 FEBRUARY 2020 UK Chemical Industry: 162WH Regulatory Divergence Regulatory Divergence [Bill Esterson] The chemical industry is fundamentally important for pharmaceuticals and across manufacturing. Anything through some other close relationship. I encourage the we do to undermine it we do at our peril. It is a Minister to pursue those avenues, because the chemicals high-profile, high-quality and world-leading industry in industry and everybody who relies on it need clarity. the UK, and every effort must be made to listen to the Investors need certainty. They are making decisions concerns being voiced by the relevant organisations. about where to locate and whether to continue investing There is unanimity in what is being said across the piece in this country or to put alternative arrangements in by the industry, trade unions and the environmental place, particularly in the EU27, with a cost for jobs and lobby—it is almost unheard of. The Government will an impact on our economies, especially in the nations do well to take that on board. I am glad the Minister and regions of the UK outside London. It is therefore said that if a longer timescale is needed to get this right, vital that all attention is given to getting this right in a the time will be taken, but to be frank the industry way that protects and enhances our industry, and does needs assurances now; it cannot wait to make decisions. not undermine it. I hope the Minister will take on board all the points made this afternoon. I thank the hon. Member for Angus (Dave Doogan) Question put and agreed to. for his comment about potassium dichromate. I hope that was not the cause of the injury he described—it Resolved, seems a little unlikely.He made some excellent additional That this House has considered regulatory divergence in the points, as did my hon. Friends the Members for Stretford UK chemical industry. and Urmston (Kate Green) and for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham). I thank my hon. Friend the Member 5.28 pm for Newport West (Ruth Jones) for her contribution. Sitting adjourned. 15WS Written Statements 26 FEBRUARY 2020 Written Statements 16WS

I thank Members for their continued engagement on Written Statements this important issue. [HCWS127] Wednesday 26 February 2020

HOME DEPARTMENT PRIME MINISTER

Police Covenant for England and Wales Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Priti Patel): Our outstanding police deserve the utmost ThePrimeMinister(BorisJohnson):TodaytheGovernment respect, support and recognition. Brave officers put are setting out their approach to the integrated review of their lives on the line every day to keep us safe, security, defence, development and foreign policy. demonstrating remarkable courage, sacrifice and public duty. The Government have set in train the biggest review They face extraordinary pressure as they protect the of our foreign, defence, security and development policy people they tirelessly serve from terrorists, serious violence since the end of the cold war. We need to grasp the and exploitation. Their families too often fear for their opportunities of the next decade and deliver upon the safety or are left to pick up the pieces when something Government’s priorities. This is a defining moment in goes wrong. how the UK relates to the rest of the world and we want to take this unique opportunity to reassess our priorities From day one, this Government have put our world-class and our approach to delivering them. police first and prioritised their wellbeing. That is why we have committed to introducing a Police Covenant in The integrated review will: England and Wales to recognise the exceptional job Define the Government’s ambition for the UK’s role in our frontline officers do in unique and challenging the world and the long-term strategic aims for our national circumstances. security and foreign policy. Set out the way in which the UK will be a problem-solving We are determined to give our officers the enhanced and burden-sharing nation, examining how we work more support they need, so I have accelerated work on this effectively with our allies. pledge to protect both them and their loved ones. Our Determine the capabilities we need for the next decade commitment to ensuring our police have the recognition and beyond to pursue our objectives and address the risks they deserve is absolute, so this Covenant will be enshrined and threats we face. in law. This will leave no room for doubt, creating a Identify the necessary reforms to Government systems statutory duty to do more to support our police. and structures to achieve these goals. Police officers and staff are uniquely placed to tell me Outline a clear approach to implementation over the next what they need, so I am today launching a public decade and set out how we will evaluate delivery of our aims. consultation on what the Police Covenant should look The review will be underpinned by the commitments like. This sets out our proposals to help the police in the Government have already made to continue to three key areas, to improve their wellbeing, increase exceed the NATO target of spending 2% of GDP on their physical protection, and support their families. defence, to commit 0.7% of GNI to international We are asking for thoughts on our plans for the development and to maintain the nuclear deterrent. principle and scope of the Police Covenant and for any A cross-Whitehall team in the Cabinet secretariat, new ideas to be considered as at is developed. and a small taskforce in No 10, will report to me and The consultation will be available on www.gov.uk the National Security Council. The review will be closely and will be open for eight weeks.A copy of the consultation aligned with this year’s comprehensive spending review will also be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. I but will also look beyond it. The Government will would urge anyone connected with policing, or who has consult with experts beyond Whitehall—in the UK and ideas on how to protect our brave officers, to respond. among our allies—in order to ensure the best possible Our outstanding police officers embody public service outcome and to build a strong platform for the decade and do not hesitate to run towards danger to keep us ahead. We will keep Parliament fully informed during safe. Nothing is more important that ensuring they have the process as we deliver a review that is in the best the support, protection and recognition that they need interests of the British people across the United Kingdom. to do their extraordinary job. This consultation will [HCWS126] explore how the Covenant can best deliver that.

ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 26 February 2020

Col. No. Col. No. PRIME MINISTER ...... 309 WALES—continued Engagements...... 309 Military Bases...... 307 PIP Assessment Centre: Accessibility...... 308 WALES...... 299 Public Bodies: Buying British...... 304 Bank Holiday: 23 June...... 303 Regulatory Divergence from the EU ...... 301 Cross-border Rail...... 308 Universal Credit...... 299 Cross-border Transport Links...... 303 Victims of Sexual Violence...... 307 Cross-Border Working ...... 305 Welsh Economy ...... 299 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Wednesday 26 February 2020

Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 15WS Police Covenant for England and Wales...... 15WS

PRIME MINISTER ...... 16WS Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy ...... 16WS No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Wednesday 4 March 2020

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 672 Wednesday No. 30 26 February 2020

CONTENTS

Wednesday 26 February 2020

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 299] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Wales Prime Minister

Personal Statement [Col. 319] Sajid Javid

Coronavirus [Col. 322] Statement—(Matt Hancock)

European Citizens’ Rights [Col. 336] Bill presented, and read the First time

Workers (Definition and Rights [Col. 337] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Chris Stephens)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Environment Bill [Col. 341] Motion for Second Reading—(George Eustice)—agreed to Programme Motion—(Maria Caulfield)—agreed to

Royal Assent to Act passed [Col. 368]

Environment Bill [Col. 369] Debate resumed

Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism [Col. 429] Motion—(James Brokenshire)—agreed to

Petition [Col. 436]

Secondary Education: Ellesmere Port [Col. 437] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall School Exclusions [Col. 83WH] Government Support for Business [Col. 109WH] Energy Efficiency Measures: Net Zero Buildings [Col. 117WH] Cawdor Barracks [Col. 139WH] UK Chemical Industry: Regulatory Divergence [Col. 147WH] General Debates

Written Statements [Col. 15WS]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]