Sorted by Subject Island Packet Owner's Q & A Report on Tenders Barnacle Rings On Avon Inflatable From: Clark Chalifour Received: 3/12/2002 11:55:18 AM Last season, I left my Avon inflatable in the water too long and ended up with many barnacles on its bottom. I removed the barnacles with a black Scotch pad (the type used on grills), but rings from the barnacles remain. I am hesitant to use products intended for removing barnacle rings from fiberglass hulls on a fabric inflatable. Does anyone have any experience or suggestions with respect to removing such rings from an inflatable? Clark Chalifour WINDHOVER IP-27-198 From: Don Berger Received: 3/12/2002 1:17:11 PM WM sells dilute hydrochloric acid under some obvious brand name I can't recall just now and it is advertized as safe. More important, I've used it and it works great. Hypalon and PVC are both impervious to HCL; my only reservation had been to keep it away from the seams (which isn't that difficult) as I am not sure how it would affect the glue. Don From: Sherri & Glen Wells Received: 3/13/2002 7:33:35 AM You probably won't like my method but it works. Deflate the dinghy and roll the PVC or Hapalon with your fingers as to fracture and dislodge the rings. Sometimes a plastic scraper used for snow removal can assist. I also grew a healthy crop. After this tedious effort of Cirripedia removal a priorety was established. Get the dink out of the water! Captain Glenn Lady Ann IP-32 #120 From: Al Sandman Received: 3/13/2002 8:03:43 AM Just try using liquid bleach, I have used it for years, it seems to work better than any other product I tried. The best part is that dosen't take much scrubbing to get the rings off. a.sandman IP-350/63 From: Peyton & Ruth Perkins Received: 3/14/2002 1:14:30 AM As an old printer, I use plastic ink knives (look like putty knives) to scrape fragile goodies like fenders, etc. Check with a local print shop and see if they can help; if not, contact Van Son Ink co. (use search engine) and fib a little; any vendor of the ink will usually be helpful. I haven't seen these knives elsewhere in my home remodeling projects. Ruth and/or Peyton Perkins SV Éowyn IP-350 #056 Albany Oregon and Captain's Cove British Columbia Boarding Aid For Inflat. Dinghy From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/28/1999 7:03:55 PM To the group: This may seem obvious to everyone but we didn't think of it until we were half way through our cruise and it really made a difference for me so I thought I would pass it on. I LOVE to snorkel but I have never, not even ten years ago, had the upper body strength to pull myself into the Avon from deep water. Many times we couldn't anchor Rapture within swimming distance of a good snorkeling area so I just missed out until I tried tying a sail gasket to the rings on the side of the inflatable, making a loop which hung about two feet (whatever length works for you) below water. I could put one bare foot in the loop and kick with my fin on the other foot and get into the dinghy - NO PROBLEM. The flat nylon of a sail gasket is much easier on a bare foot than a rope. We just leave this line on the dinghy all the time, in case I should manage to unintentionally fall out. Obviously the dinghy has its own anchor, a teeny tiny Danforth, 5 ft. of chain and a nylon rode. We've always been able to find a patch of sand near or within the reef to anchor in. I also get a false sense of security by having the dinghy nearby in case a shark shows up. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Steve Weiser Received: 4/5/1999 11:26:38 PM >thought of looking up some >I.P. members for a possible day out, but it was COLD, COLD, COLD. I don't >know about that Northern California water - - how do you guys out there do >it!??) Bob Wenneson....we've had an unusually unpleasant winter. Be sure to contact one of us next time you are out here and maybe we can get together and swap sea stories. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY Compact Ribs As A Dinghy From: Charles I. Malme Received: 2/18/1999 8:02:12 PM As a long-time lurker I followed the recent threads about Trinkas as dinghys and STOW-BOTES as dinghys. I am interested in the possibilities of the Bombard Model AX/3001 8.5 ft compact RIB as a dinghy. This boat has the advantage of a folding transom which permits it to be deflated and folded up into a package 5'9 long, 2'11 wide, and 1' thick. This could be stowed on the foredeck of my IP-29 and presumably still allow use of the foresail. It could also fit into the quarter berth or the V-berth if deck stowage was not appropriate. I would welcome any comments from IP owners who may have already tried out this dinghy option. Chuck Malme SKYA III, IP-29-16 Hingham, MA Davits & Dinks From: Irwin Roberts Received: 9/29/1999 9:04:05 PM Hi Gang: I have my IP-320-18 for just over a year, and know there is no place to store an inflated or partially inflated inflatable. (That's a tongue twister). I believe the only solution for storage of inflatable, the dink, motor, oars, and gas tank is to add davits. Davit companies tell me many fellow IP owners have indeed added davits to their boats. What davits seem the beat for IP's with their rail seats and curved transoms, and what companies were the best to deal with? Is there another solution? I am not in love with the looks of a boat with davits. Hopping for some input, best to all. Irwin Roberts IP-320-18 Wind Dancer From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:07 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 1 of 62 Davits & Dinks From: Gary Drussel Received: 9/29/1999 10:12:55 PM Irwin, Glad you are happy with your new 320. We have Kato Davits which are about the highest quality I have found. They are on katomarine.com You might want to consider a stern arch as some of of our member had done. There are some really nice installations which can be viewed on the homeport. Our Kato davits mount the dingey really high off the water and are very sturdy. There are some advantages to an arch, particularily if you do it early in the game. In retrospect, I would have an arch that also served as aft mounts for our full length bimini, also was our davits, and served as a mount for various antennas, etc. Could be made more asthetically pleasing than separate items. If used for multi purposes the arch might be more cost effective. Gary Surrender 40/72 From: Steve Weiser Received: 9/29/1999 11:25:53 PM > There are some advantages to an arch, particularily if you do it early in >the game. In retrospect, I would have an arch that also served as aft >mounts for our full length bimini, also was our davits, and served as a >mount for various antennas, etc. Could be made more asthetically pleasing >than separate items. If used for multi purposes the arch might be more >cost effective. Irwin....I obviously agree with Gary because I had an arch installed. There is a picture or two of it on the Homeport site. While it is expensive, it solves a lot of problems, including motor hoist, antenna locations, etc. as Gary described. If you start to add all those up separately, then the cost of an arch doesn't seem so bad. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Butler Smythe Received: 9/30/1999 6:36:24 AM There are more companies than KATO (cheaper too). We bought from Offshore in NC a few years ago. All depends on what you really need, want or have the bucks for. We paid about $575 in 94.. think they are now $775. Another very goo company is in BC. Shop at the shows if you are not in a hurry. vr, Butler Smythe From: William Mayberry Received: 10/4/1999 6:28:23 PM Butler, do you have numberor address for Offshore? Wm Mayberry OPTIMYSTIQUE IP-37-30 From: Tom Jones Received: 10/4/1999 10:20:31 PM Wm; Another excellent davit company is Ocean Marine Systems in Richmond B.C., Canada. They know their stuff, and make an excellent product. They can be contacted at 800-883-2848. Ask for Mike Thomas. Regards, Tom Jones WM Mayberry wrote: > Butler, do you have numberor address for Offshore? > Wm Mayberry > OPTIMYSTIQUE > IP-37-30 > > Smythe, Butler non Unisys wrote: > > > There are more companies than KATO (cheaper too). We bought from Offshore in > > NC a few years ago. All depends on what you really need, want or have the > > bucks for. We paid about $575 in 94.. think they are now $775. Another very > > goo company is in BC. Shop at the shows if you are not in a hurry. > > Butler Smythe > > > > From: Edward Land Received: 10/6/1999 2:10:32 PM The following is their URL: http://www.vru.com/ocean/ Ed Land IP-37-51 Davits & Dinks And Boat Shows From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 10/8/1999 2:57:13 PM Geez Butler, The following message just arrived at 8:47 AM (West Coast time) on Friday 10/08/99 and you sent on Wednesday. Is everyone experiencing this delay, or just a few of us? Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Butler Smythe Received: 10/8/1999 5:41:33 PM Just a comment on the boat shows, Atlantic City is still considered small potatoes and many suppliers have not put themselves on that calendar so if you are expecting to see Ocean Systems there... NOT! Am not sure about Kato either. vr, Butler Smythe Davits & Dinks And Nigel Calder From: Butler Smythe Received: 10/5/1999 8:43:52 AM The Ocean Marine guys are great as well. Spoke with them in St. Pete last year at the boat show there. Actually lots of stuff coming out of BC is top notch (Statpower and Mustang are others). I just happened to pick up the most recent Sail Mag (no longer subscribe to because I kept reading so much BAD information) while sitting in the dentists chair yesterday and read an article by Nigel on his new boat. He explains the holes in his transom that Blaine mentioned as well as some other issues. Why the heck did he commission his own boat? Ya gotta wonder. Heck buying from PS he had to pay to truck the boat to LA etc..Can't wait to read about him moving the position of the mast... vr, Butler Smythe Davits & Dinks And Phone Number From: Butler Smythe Received: 10/6/1999 10:00:28 AM The following is the info on Offshore. I bought our davits in '94 and have not had personal contact with them since then so numbers and addresses may have changed. I looked for a web site but there was none so this is the best that I can give you. I will note that if I had a RIB with an Outboard I'd buy Kato or Ocean. If I had a RIB I'd buy an Aquapro (aluminum bottom) at ½ the weight of a glass bottomed RIB. I'd never lift the inflatable with an outboard attached, especially the 15hp and higher... or course I'd never buy one of those anyway (no need for speed and I love to row). We have an 8' Trinka on the stern with no outboard (conscious decision (sold our 2.3 three years ago) and our weight is kept to a minimum). Plus the boat is covered part of the year while hanging on the back. Kato's brackets, which add additional structure to the stern rail, are a great idea and can be used with any product! You can also make your own using aluminum tubing (lots cheaper). Offshore Marine Products 510 Long Meadow Dr. Salisbury, NC 28144 1.704.636.6609 vr, Butler Smythe Davits & Dinks Phone Info From: Received: 3/23/2004 10:27:08 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 2 of 62 Davits & Dinks Phone Info From: Butler Smythe Received: 10/5/1999 7:35:58 AM Will have to look at home. In the process of moving and stuff is everywhere. Should be able to find tonight. Ocean Marine is the BC company. I bought jam cleats for my Offshore davits from them. vr, Butler Smythe Dinghy From: Robert Renes Received: 7/27/1998 1:05:30 PM Has any other owners had any experience with different yacht tenders? I am looking for a good tender as well as a sailing dinghy. I have looked at those manufactured in Florida, Bauer 10 and Trinka 10 as well as one recommended by another IP owner Kittery point 10. All apperar to be about the same in cost and specs. Does anyone have any opinnion on either of these? or any other recommendations? What about lifting a tender (non inflatable) on davits? and why do the specs only allow a max of 2 hp for outboard? Would appreciate comments, Thanks, Robert O'Bay Be II 38-61 From: Glenn Wells Received: 7/27/1998 1:19:47 PM Has any other owners had any experience with different yacht tenders? I am looking for a good tender as well as a sailing dinghy. I have looked at those manufactured in Florida, Bauer 10 and Trinka 10 as well as one recommended by another IP owner Kittery point 10. All apperar to be about the same in cost and specs. Does anyone have any opinnion on either of these? or any other recommendations? Under the heading of other recomendations: If you plan to include boarding any of these from the water like from snorkling get yoursely a big bailing bucket.You will need it.I don`t believe tne perfect all purpose dink has been invented although the tinker might be close. Ouch the cost! What about lifting a tender (non inflatable) on davits? and why do the specs only allow a max of 2 hp for outboard? Would appreciate comments, Thanks, Robert O'Bay Be II 38-61 From: Jason Duncan Received: 7/27/1998 6:11:28 PM Robert, We have an Avon 3.5 inflatable with an 8 hp outboard hanging on Kato davits. I don't know the exact weight, but its not that much lighter than a rigid tender would weigh. Kato said there would be no problems keeping our dingy and engine on the davits all the time. ------Jason S/V Truelove IP-45-28 From: Steve Weiser Received: 7/27/1998 10:30:24 PM Robert...we have a Zodiac Fastroller 310 with the inflatable floor. Have owned for about 3.5 years and are very satisfied. Easy to lift and lightweight. carries four adults. Avon now makes one, also; West Marine sells it under their brand, I think. Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Albert & Helen Powell Received: 7/28/1998 9:19:46 AM Robert, I have had a Trinka 8 for about 10 years and could not be more pleased. Our Trinka is beautiful, receiving many comments wherever we go, and in addition is bullet proof. We use the boat for a tender (or used to) and do not have the sail package. The boat rows so well I have never considered a motor. Also, Johannsen Boat Works stands behind their product 110%. Albert Boatless - Still looking for an IP-35 , At 02:04 PM 7/27/98 EDT, you wrote: >Has any other owners had any experience with different yacht tenders? > >I am looking for a good tender as well as a sailing dinghy. I have looked at >those manufactured in Florida, Bauer 10 and Trinka 10 as well as one >recommended by another IP owner Kittery point 10. All apperar to be about the >same in cost and specs. > >Does anyone have any opinnion on either of these? or any other >recommendations? >What about lifting a tender (non inflatable) on davits? and why do the specs >only allow a max of 2 hp for outboard? >Would appreciate comments, > >Thanks, > > >Robert >O'Bay Be II >38-61 > > From: Bernie Wideman Received: 7/28/1998 2:38:02 PM Robert, Of the dinghies you mention, the only one I have tried is the Kittery Point tender (not the sailing model). I loved it. It rowed easily, tracked well, balanced well, has two rowing stations, and looks sweet. I tell myself I'll buy one someday. For the time being I dinghy around in a Puffin 8-footer (not the sailing model). Its advantages are price and weight. I use a spinnaker halyard to hoist it onto my foredeck (Tartan 34) for long cruises. It also has nice lines and rows well with one person on board. With two it's a bit of a chore because there's only one rowing station, so it squats. It will be interesting to know which dinghy you choose and how you like it. Bernie Wideman in Maine [email protected] wrote: > Has any other owners had any experience with different yacht tenders? > > I am looking for a good tender as well as a sailing dinghy. I have looked at > those manufactured in Florida, Bauer 10 and Trinka 10 as well as one > recommended by another IP owner Kittery point 10. All apperar to be about the > same in cost and specs. > > Does anyone have any opinnion on either of these? or any other > recommendations? > What about lifting a tender (non inflatable) on davits? and why do the specs > only allow a max of 2 hp for outboard? > Would appreciate comments, > > Thanks, > > Robert > O'Bay Be II > 38-61 > > From: Bill Dill Received: 8/1/1998 4:56:21 PM Just back from 9 days of sailing along the Maine coast, with everything from calms waters to very agitated seas and stormy weather on Penobscot Bay. Debated before we left whether to take our trusty 8-foot Trinka, bought many years ago, or a new inflatable -- thinking the latter might tow better and provide more stability doing odd jobs around boat (such as fishing for snagged lobster pot lines). Took the Trinka because she rows so damn well and never regretted it. Suppose she could swamp under tow, but she hasn't yet in close to 10 years of usage. Rows like a runabout with one person in boat, and with two and some gear it was just as secure and far drier on long rows in gusty winds and waves in Rockport and Rockland Harbors. Trinka, like the IP, is a truly classic design and a quality product. (If you want more stability at times with a hard dink, I just came across an ad on the net for a set of inflatable rollers you can install along outside of gunwales -- would't normally use, but might be something easy to carry along and inflate when needed (e.g., as noted above, fishing for pot lines.) ... Thanks for responses on instruments. My Navicos must have heard my curses -- behaved better this trip after repairs, and their autopilot has been giving me good service so far. But it's probably off to Autohelm or B&G on the others. - Bill Dill SAPPHIRE 29-19.
3/23/2004 10:27:08 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 3 of 62 Dinghy From: L Daniel Butler Received: 8/2/1998 8:46:05 AM Bill, Do you recall in what magazine you saw the inflatable rails? Thanks Dan B From: Bill Dill Received: 8/4/1998 8:29:43 AM The inflatable rails are Dinghy Dogs -- invented by Harvey Waxman in Rhode Island (401-295-8382) and made by Harvey Products (1010 Pleasant Street, Worcester, MA 01602). Best way to check them out in on the net: http:/www3.edgenet.net/harveyproducts/ The site gives pictures, specs, user reactions, installation instructions, and comments from Practical Sailor. The Dogs have been around for a few years -- current version is a revised design. If anyone has tried them, your report on the experience would be interesting. - Bill Dill SAPPHIRE 29-19. From: Ralp Levitt Received: 8/7/1998 10:02:26 PM Hi My vote goes for the Cape Dory 10 - now made by Robin Hood Marine in Maine. Tows, trails, rows, motors (3-4 hp Johnson/Evenrude) and sails like nothing else. Ours is now 33 yrs old. I traded varnishing the seats and trim for paint years ago, epoxy painted the hull, have gone through several O/B's and oars (6 footers) and replaced the original nylon sail with a dacron one several years ago. I store the 2-piece mast and boom assembly with sail attached in an acrylic sail bag on the cabin top of our IP-31 in season and then use it as a ridge pole for the winter boat cover - it is just 10' 6 long! Have motored with 5 adults, rowed with 4 (need room to swing the oars) and sailed with 3. Also, very easy to board from the transom ladder. You could rig it for davits, but it tows so obediently (I use a bridle in choppy conditions, especially downwind) I would only consider that if we were to go offshore. In the 25 seasons we've used it, it only swapped once - by water pumped into the boat through the empty and uncovered centerboard trunk. Now I keep the centerboard in the trunk all the time and have a cover over that as well. Of course, it needs bailing after rain - but it has enough built-in floatation so that it cannot sink - even with the O/B, sail/mast/boom rig, rudder, centerboard and me (165#) on board. Did I mention it has an easily setup catboat-like rig, with 9' boom and 2 section, unstayed 15' mast, outboard rudder and swing up, ballasted centerboard. It sails like a charm either by me (67) or my 10 yr old grandkid. Good sailing Ralph & Betty Levitt SECOND LOVE IP-31 and LOVE TOO CD10 From: Bruce Gregory Received: 8/8/1998 7:28:00 AM Ralph- Great stuff on the Cape Dory 10. If your not already in it, you should consider a second career in marketing. -Bruce > From: Simon Lock Received: 3/31/1999 8:38:36 AM I have had a SeaWorthy dingy for several years and would never buy one again. The flooring in this dingy is poorly made and arrives with one coat of varnish which is gone in less than 6 months. The flooring in my dingy also did not fit well at the joints and the whole thing is a total pain to assemble. I certainly would not trust it to a set of davits. Finally the although the transom is rated for I think 10 hp I know two people that split their transom using an engine at or just below the rated max. Knowing what I do now I think I would steer more towards a RIB - no or low maintenance on the bottom and transom. All this is just my personal opinion - others may have a diferent story. Wishing you fair winds and good sailing Simon Lock IP-32 - Kichigai, Atlanta, GA [email protected] From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/31/1999 9:08:59 AM Based On The Groups Input We Decided To Go For A 10 Foot Dinghy =We Expressed The Same Concerns As You Did. Imho An Added 14 Inches Does Not Matter --Owners Using 8 Footers Would Go For A 10 If They Had It To Do Over-This Kind Of Candid Answer Makes The Ip Group A Valuable Resource! But After Reading Simon Lock'S Post You Really Have Got To Look This Possible Trojan Horse In The Mouth. Simon'S Experience Also Begs The Question 'Why Is This Guy Selling It After One Seasons Use? 'Cheap Is Dear' - 'There Is A Sucker Born Every Minute' Come To Mind As Does ' Where There Is Smoke There Is A Guy Doing A Steak On His Patio'Luck To U < : ) Bob And Mary Beth Ip-380 Queen B From: Sam Bates Received: 6/4/1999 5:38:04 PM We have a 380 on order to be delivered in Sept. Have read with interest the postings of others outfitting their boats. My problem is the dinghy, I would prefer a RIB but prefer not having davits. Is there any known to store one aboard? Sam & Carolyn Bates From: Joe Wilcox Received: 6/4/1999 8:45:17 PM I have a 350 and a 9'4 Avon RIB (has full 17 tubes). Deflated and upside down it fits nicely under the staysail boom for passages. From: Joe Wilcox Received: 6/7/1999 5:37:17 PM There are discussion group members with more experience that can probably answer this question better. I think that if you are only hoisting the dinghy aboard for passages, any convenient halyard that allows you to clear stays, etc. would work. If you haul frequently or use a halyard to park the dinghy above the water, then halyard chafe is a consideration. My friend's boat had a number of halyards (as I recall, we used a staysail halyard). I will probably use the cruising spinnaker halyard as its design will minimize chafe and it will be unused (unless I'm in a real hurry, I shouldn't be flying the spinnaker while hoisting the dinghy). I also plan to convert the topping lift to a spare halyard aft of the mast (storm trysail, etc.). From: Don Ringsmuth Received: 6/17/2002 6:25:22 PM One thing I forgot to include in my earlier posting re experiences cruising the Caribbean--dinghy problems. One day in an anchorage completely protected from waves our dingy flipped while at anchorage with the motor on it. I had seen gusts of winds to 40 kts earlier and donm't know how high the one was that got my dingy. It is a Zodiac 3.10 with inflatible floor weighing in at about 66 lbs. The engine is an 8 hp Yamaha. From that point on, if high winds were around we flooded the dinghy or added other ballast while at anchor. Dinghy Anchor From: Received: 3/23/2004 10:27:08 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 4 of 62 Dinghy Anchor From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/28/2002 12:32:11 PM Thanks for the ideas. (Another thing to buy!) Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/28/2002 2:16:52 PM Sea Dog makes Grapnel anchors that weigh 3.3, 5.5, 7.4, and 8.8 pounds. Which size do I need to anchor a nine or ten foot dinghy? From: Jaime Ramon Received: 2/28/2002 5:13:30 PM I'll look at mine this weekend and let you know what I have. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 2/28/2002 6:00:06 PM Bill, I've found that we always anchor the dink in sand or mud....maybe because we use a Danforth type anchor :). But seriously do the grapnel type anchors work well in sand/mud? Or is the bottom of the lake you're on mostly rocks? In the 2001 West Marine catalog, page 638 there is a good little setup for a dinghy....the Commando Anchor Kit. It comes complete with everything. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/28/2002 6:34:48 PM Thanks for looking it up. I am looking for something for the future and not where we are sailing now. I cannot imagine we would need an 8 pound Danforth type anchor for a dinghy. That is what the scantlings call for on our Flying Scot and I have anchored off a lee shore with the Scot (19 feet) in a gale with that anchor. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 2/28/2002 8:01:37 PM OK Bill, I'm confused. Why do you think you need an 8# Danforth type? That Commando, danforth type, was 2.5# and has a holding power to 350#, for a 12' - 16' boat. As to the holding power of a Danforth....for the first five years we owned Rapture, all we had was a 22# standard Danforth anchor. It held in all kinds of conditions and we still use it as our second anchor when needed. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Bill Langlois Received: 3/1/2002 12:00:23 PM The Commando anchor I found on the WEB is an 8 pound Danforth. I will look in the West catalog although I do not have the 2001 anymore. From: Bobby Ward Received: 3/1/2002 12:48:41 PM Suggest that you consider a folding grapnel - 6-8lbs vs the danforth. Have found this works just a well and is much easier to stow. Have been using one for many years - even while scuba diving. Pick the anchor up, fold, and stick in my buoyancy compensator while trailing the dink along! Bobby 350-57 Gra'inne: From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/1/2002 1:07:21 PM Bill, Click on this link, it will take you to the same anchor kit at Sailnet's store: http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=22684 Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 3/1/2002 3:35:44 PM Dear Bill, Down here on the James we use half a cement block to anchor our John boat in a 4 kt river current (well, not four knots now in this drought!). It works fine. I don't think you need to spend $100 for the W. Marine kit when you could use your lunch hook when necessary, or find a cheap small second hand anchor somewhere. It really doesn't take too much force to hold a dinghy down. You might even take a milk bottle and use it as a form to pour concete in with a ring at the top! Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350-88 Dinghy Bailing From: Tom Jones Received: 12/1/2001 10:03:19 AM Clif; Saw your note to Rich and thought I would add our 2 cents worth solution. We keep a 9' 6 RIB on kato davits and have it ratched in with straps also. On bad weather or heavy rain days when it begins to fill in the bow section with water on a port tack we just toss a small battery operated pump with a 4' plastic drain hose (from West Marine) into the lee side of the dink and it pumps it out in no time. We then grab the hose end and pull the pump back out and shut it off. It works and saves us an extra tack just to drain the dink. Regards, Tom s/v Christiana 45-33 From: Cliff Kisby Received: 12/1/2001 10:06:22 AM Tom, sounds like a good solution. Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby IP-40-75 From: David Neelon Received: 12/1/2001 10:11:19 AM Tom, Cool! David Neelon >Clif; > >Saw your note to Rich and thought I would add our 2 cents worth solution. > We keep a 9' 6 RIB on kato davits and have it ratched in with straps >also. On bad weather or heavy rain days when it begins to fill in the bow >section with water on a port tack we just toss a small battery operated >pump with a 4' plastic drain hose (from West Marine) into the lee side of >the dink and it pumps it out in no time. We then grab the hose end and >pull the pump back out and shut it off. It works and saves us an extra >tack just to drain the dink. > >Regards, Tom s/v Christiana 45-33 Dinghy bottoms From: Charles W Kirby Received: 10/2/2001 4:25:43 PM Has anyone used regular bottom paint ( solvent type, not water-based ) on an inflatable or the inflatable part of an RIB ? I have tried the Inflatable Boat Bottom Paint from West and all it does is mark up my deck when I board the dinghy - little to no growth prevention. My concern is possible damage to the glued seams. I know that the Hypalon fabric would be ok. Angelisa 44/34
3/23/2004 10:27:08 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 5 of 62 Dinghy Brackets From: William Mayberry Received: 10/21/1999 6:39:14 AM Does anyone have any experience with the Edson dinghy brackets that mount on the aft rails? The dink hangs on these brackets. They look like a temporary solution for the placement of my dink until I can get some good davits. Any thoughts? Wm Mayberry OPTIMYSTIQUE IP-37- 30 From: Jim Billings Received: 10/21/1999 7:29:45 AM I installed the Edson dinghy brackets two years ago because I do not like the looks of davits. I have a 90 pound inflatable which requires my wife and I to lift up the dinghy, tie down and secure it against the aft rails. I have no problem take down the inflatable myself. We've sailed under this configuration from Newport to Nantucket under 30 knots winds and choppy seas without any signs of dinghy coming undone. These Edson brackets are my permanent solution for coastal sailing. I will take the dinghy and tie down on deck when we go offshore to Cape May next summer. Regards, Jim Billings Fujiko, IP-40/102 From: William Mayberry Received: 10/28/1999 6:59:44 PM Jim Billings, I have a question about the installation of the Edson dinghy brackets. About their location and how you attached the bottom of the bracket. Please E-Mail me back at [email protected] to keep from cluttering the list. Thanks Wm Mayberry OPTIMYSTIQUE IP-37-30 islpkt- [email protected] wrote: > I installed the Edson dinghy brackets two years ago because I do not like > the looks of davits. I have a 90 pound inflatable which requires my wife and > I to lift up the dinghy, tie down and secure it against the aft rails. I > have no problem take down the inflatable myself. We've sailed under this > configuration from Newport to Nantucket under 30 knots winds and choppy seas > without any signs of dinghy coming undone. These Edson brackets are my > permanent solution for coastal sailing. I will take the dinghy and tie down > on deck when we go offshore to Cape May next summer. > > Regards, > > Jim Billings > Fujiko, IP-40/102 > > At 06:42 AM 10/21/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Does anyone have any experience with the Edson dinghy brackets that > >mount on the aft rails? The dink hangs on these brackets. They look > >like a temporary solution for the placement of my dink until I can get > >some good davits. Any thoughts? > >Wm Mayberry > >OPTIMYSTIQUE > >IP-37-30 > > > > > > > >**** Dinghy Choice From: Jeff Jackson Received: 12/27/2003 3:30:42 PM I am in the market for a dinghy and outboard. I think I have narrowed it down to either an Achilles HB-310 RIB or an AB 320VL RIB Light. They are both about the same price and have Hypalon 17" tubes and weight around 130 pounds. The AB will take up to a 25 HP engine and the Achilles will take up to a 15 HP. If anyone would like to comment on the quality of either I would appreciate the feedback. I will most likely go with the Yamaha 15HP 4 stroke engine. Eventually I will hang it off of Kato davits. Jeff IP380-133 "Xperience" From: Richard Maddox Received: 12/27/2003 4:00:27 PM I own the AB. It's a great tender, maneuvers fine and has held up well the last year and a half. Richard Maddox Balancing Act 420-74 From: Rich Michaels Received: 12/27/2003 5:21:31 PM I like the double hulled RIB better than the single hull "light" version. I have a Caribe RIB which is 9 years old and it's seen pretty rough service. I think I would have cracked a "light" version by now. I also like having the bow locker for storage; I don’t think that's an option on the light versions. Regards, Rich ______Capt. R.V. Michaels s/v Eventyr - IP40/129 Marco Island, FL [email protected] From: Cliff Kisby Received: 12/28/2003 10:21:58 AM Rich, what does your rib weigh? I have an Achilles that I bought in 1987 and its still going strong but I have repaired the floor a few times. I would like to get a rib, they plane a little better. And am tired of messing with the wood floor. I don't want something to heavy. Regards, Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby 40-75 From: Rich Michaels Received: 12/28/2003 10:53:01 AM Cliff, As I recall it's around 165 lbs, it's the 10X model. At one of the fall boat shows I looked around a little at what was currently being offered in terms of RIBs and based on what I saw and my positive experience with my Caribe I concluded that I'd buy another Caribe if I was in the market today. Hopefully, I’ll get as many years out of my dinghy (9 so far) as you have on yours. Regards, Rich ______Capt. R.V. Michaels s/v Eventyr - IP40/129 Marco Island, FL [email protected] From: Paul A Jones Received: 12/28/2003 12:30:49 PM I just bought a dinghy with an inflatable floor. It weighs about 70#'s so I can handle it myself. It deflates and can be stored below or in the cockpit locker when heading offshore. I can drive it easily with a 4 hp, 4 stroke outboard which I can also lift with ease. There is something to be said about lighter and smaller. Paul A Jones Ad Astra IP37-16 From: Joe Gormley Received: 12/28/2003 6:39:27 PM The October 2003 issue of Cruising World has an article on their RIB testing and comparison between the major brands. They tested the 10 foot models. Interestingly they felt these boats would handle better with 9.9 HP instead of 15HP, unless you really need to plane with four adults onboard. I have a 10' APEX RIB for sale, if anyone is interested you can contact me off list. The boat was used for two years in the Caribbean, I am located in NC. Joe Gormley IP27-35 [email protected] Joe Gormley ------Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square From: Ward Newcomb Received: 12/28/2003 7:25:59 PM Joe, I'm curious, what size motor did you use on the Apex? Ward Newcomb No IP yet From: Received: 3/23/2004 10:27:08 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 6 of 62 Dinghy Choice From: Rob & Dee Dubin Received: 12/29/2003 12:10:21 AM One problem with most of the light versions is the floor is not level as it is also the keel. This means anything you put on it rolls down to the middle. With scuba tanks or heavy loads of groceries it gets to be a pain. We have an AB 9' with the lockable bow compartment and are very happy with it after about 5 years of very heavy use. Rob Dubin IP 40 - 58 Ventana Currently in Australia From: Joe Gormley Received: 12/29/2003 8:13:45 PM I never actually used the APEX! Purchased it from my cousin several years ago, its been in storage since, now for sale. The data plate states it will take a 20 hp. I use a 10 foot achilles with inflatable floor and a 5hp, it planes really nicely with one adult, moves along well with two. The RIB, I should think would plane with two adults and a 9.9hp. Someone on the list spoke about the weight of moving a 15 hp around and hanging it off the stern rail. He's right. Ward Newcomb
3/23/2004 10:27:08 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 7 of 62 Dinghy Choices From: David Neelon Received: 12/1/2001 10:08:50 AM LeRoy & Charlotte - Congratulations on your new boat! The compromises are well stated in other posts. I carry a 10' Zodiac with the rigid inflatable floor, hung on Kato davits. Have had it only one season, so not much experience yet. Going offshore I would deflate it and carry it in the bag, although most of the time that would prove unnecessary. Nevertheless, the weight of a boat load of water (haven't done the weight calculation, but it could easily exceed a thousand pounds) even for a short time is more than I want to try on the davit attachments. The rigid inflatable floor seems very strong. You can always tear a fabric with something, but I don't worry about shoes or the things I carry. Landing on sharp stone or coral bits would be risky, but it is with any inflatable, even a RIB, though to a lesser extent. I wouldn't worry about a sand or stone beach. Some manufacturer has or is bringing out a roll-up aluminum floor inflatable. That's an interesting idea if it can be made to lock into a rigid structure, but you still would have to be careful around sharp stone or coral. When I had a wood panel floor Avon I always thought there was more risk of opening a seam when inserting and removing the panels than there was in normal use. The rigid inflatable floor avoids that problem entirely and saves the periodic varnishing and a couple of jars of talcum powder every season (for sliding the boards in and out more easily). David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: Les Adams Received: 12/1/2001 3:03:35 PM Leroy: I have a 10' Apex RIB that fits well on the KATO arch davits. I also had this RIB when we had our 38. When off shore with both the 38 and our current 420, we lift the the RIB at either side, deflate it, and, upside down, ease it back amid ships and lash it down to the stainless handrails just forward of the dodger. It works just fine and is not in the way for deck work, particularly, since we have in-mast main furling---as you will on Fair Winds. Our Apex RIB is aging and weighs more than 10' RIBs on the market today. When we relace it in a year or two, we plan to get another 9' or 10' RIB, but one that is lighter. Another decision is what HP outboard motor to get. I have had two 8s and a 15. Without question, we prefer the 15. It is a bit heavy---generally about 75-80lbs---but it is fantastic for plaining the dinghy. Plaining adds a whole new quick trip and entertainment dimension to the dinghy experience! No matter what outboard you get, I would make sure your KATO arch has an outboard lift arm on it. We installed an Edson outboard motor mount on the port side of the stern rail just inward of the seat and lift the motor from there to the dinghy in the water with the arch mounted lift arm. It works great. Decisions, decisions, decisions, huh? Take care. Les From: Les Adams Received: 12/1/2001 3:29:42 PM Rich: Trailer straps sounds like a good approach. But, what are rackets. What is the make and model of your straps? Les From: Les Adams Received: 12/1/2001 3:36:19 PM Rich: I get it.... Rachets... Just a little dense this afternoon as I sit at Dulles AP waiting to go to Seattle. Les From: Bob Hauser Received: 12/1/2001 6:13:05 PM Les You might want to try Bo'sun supplies Ratchet Buckle w/Strap, 304 Stainless Steel, Precision Formed & Machined there products are a little pricey (but what isn't) but they are topnotch quality and they hold the dinghies on Kato davits better than any other system that I have tried. Blue skies and fair tides, Bob Hauser, Carpediem, IP-38-112 From: Bill Brewer Received: 12/1/2001 9:27:04 PM No kidding! Would you share what size you found best, how many you use, and how you attach them? Thanks, Bill :-) From: Andrew Gantt Received: 12/1/2001 9:27:46 PM Dear Charlotte and Leroy, We have used a 2/3 person Achilles dinghy for sixteen years with no motor. It stows into a small bag about the size of a carry on, can be assembled in short order on deck and lowered over the side by one person. It will hold four in a pinch. I wouldn't swear by it, so to speak, but we feel that it eliminates more problems than it creates. It will take a 2hp motor, but who wants the hassle? Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350 From: Joe Barnette Received: 12/2/2001 12:03:19 AM My Ocean Marine davits came with two SS rachets about ten feet long. They are used as crossed spring lines to stop left to right movement. I just ordered three more from Bosun. Ocean Marine also sells the straps. The price is about the same. I will use the ten foot strap as follows - attach to the aft inside lifting ring then go over the transom, around the inside tube and then up to an attachment point. This will prevent the dinghy from moving and will pull it into the davits. The other two five foot straps will be used as breast lines. For shorter passages I leave the eight horsepower motor on the dinghy which, due to weight, causes more movement. I also leave the fuel in the dinghy. The davits are designed to support this much weight and more - they are tied into an arch and are the heavier design. Joe Barnette From: Bob Hauser Received: 12/2/2001 12:14:47 PM Bill I have the 1 wide with 10' strap and J hooks. I use two and they are attached at the bow and stern lifting rings furthest aft from the transom and criss-crossed and attached at the attachment rings in the crook of the davits already on the Kato davits.(I hope that is clear) By attaching them to the two points furthest aft on the dingy they will pull the dingy toward the swim ladder and against an 8 fender which is lying horizontal on the ladder bracing legs and secured to the stern pulpit. By criss-crossing the straps it prevents the dingy from moving from side to side. It takes longer to describe this than to actually do it :>) . Blue skies & fair tides, Bob Hauser,Carpediem, IP-38-112 From: Richard V. Michaels Received: 12/3/2001 9:55:50 AM Cliff, Ours hangs at an angle, never measured it but its probably about 4-6 inches lower at the stern. This is due to the placement of the lifting rings on the dinghy itself. The bow is lifted at a single ring mounted at the foot of the bow locker which puts it maybe 2-2.5 feet back from the actual bow, but it is at floor level of the dinghy. The stern lifting rings (two) are on the transom but mounted high and I use a strap run taught
3/23/2004 10:27:08 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 8 of 62 Dinghy Choices between the two rings and the strap has a center ring that becomes the lifting point for the stern. I pull the dinghy up has high as possible and put some chafe protection between the davit and the inflatable tube nearest the boat (only the bow end of the dinghy needs it since the stern is lower.) Next I put two trailer tie down straps over the connecting bar between the davits, around the dinghy and they both pass through and around the top stern rail of the boat (the IP). I use the ratcheting device on the tie downs to secure the dinghy tight and because the tie down is wrapped around the stern rail, it doesn't move at all fore and aft (in relation to fore and aft on Eventyr.) Finally, I secure two crossing lines from the lifting rings of the dinghy to the opposite davit (port to starboard and starboard to port.) This keeps the dinghy from swinging side to side as Eventyr rolls. With this arrangement I have found that the angle of the dinghy is maintained for drainage yet the movement of it is stopped. I haven't been in a situation yet where we were hard down on one tack with the drain hole pointed skyward for a real long period and rainwater accumulated to a dangerous level. Regards, Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 From: Richard V. Michaels Received: 12/3/2001 10:06:13 AM Les, Sorry, rackets is bad spelling and errant proofreading for the proper term ratchets. They are standard boat or motorcycle trailer issue. I purchased them at a hardware store. I think they were about $25 each and I got ones that were 16' in length. Regards, Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 From: Cliff Kisby Received: 12/3/2001 10:15:05 AM Rich, these rachet straps sound like a good idea. That will be my next purchase of things for the boat. Cliff & Pam Kisby IP-40-75 Dinghy Davits From: Judy & Ronald Fitzsimmons Received: 3/2/1999 5:30:57 PM Hello to everybody, Judy and I are considering adding Kato davits to our IP-40 this Spring. Does anyone out there have any experience with this product. How easy is the installation? Is this a good product? Any comments would be appreciated. Ron , IP-40-35 Delicia From: Steve Weiser Received: 3/2/1999 7:21:54 PM Simply the best on the market--Terri, at Kato, will walk you through all that is required for measurements and installation (which is easy). The product--recommend the heavy duty Island Model-is top quality. You may have to add stern rail support brackets--also available from Kato--I also added the detachable stainless support bar between the davits. The whole assembly-davits, brackets, and bar is about $1400. Bill Excalibur II--IP-35 #180 Judy & Ronald Fitzsimmons
From: Don Staffa Received: 3/3/1999 3:22:03 PM Bruce,thanks for the input;I'm Don Staffa and my wife and I(Jo Anne)sail a IP-44(#29) out of 3 mile harbor,East hampton NY;we acquired the boat used last summer and love it;hope to cruise Maine this August and wanted to put Zodiac on Davits-we were leaning toward Kato but its always reassuring to get input from somone who knows/uses the product-thanks again _/)Bruce Gregory
3/23/2004 10:27:09 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 10 of 62 Dinghy Davits From: Cliff Kisby Received: 3/4/1999 4:42:16 PM Bruce, I agree. You have to support the stern rail to get the strength. Cliff From: Fred Tayman Received: 3/5/1999 10:25:33 AM Bruce, The Kato davits are attached to the stern rail but, there are also sturdy s/s rail support brackets that are attached from the rail, at the davit attachment point, to inside the transom. These supports are custom made for the boat they are to be to be used on and look nice.These supports take most of the stress from the stern rail and direct it to the transom. I would say that the stress is mostly divided downward on the deck pads, then the support brackets and lastly the stern rail. Few times nowadays do I think a company deserves a great job compliment, but Kato's product and people were just that. Fred Tayman 32-64 Magic From: Judy & Ronald Fitzsimmons Received: 3/5/1999 7:18:36 PM Hi to everybody, I would like to thank everyone that commented on my dinghy davits questions. Sounds like Kato is the right product. I just hope my arms are long enough to reach the port side hardware behind the water heater. Since my sleeve length is only 32 inches, I might have a problem. Ron, IP-40-35 Delicia [email protected] wrote: > Bruce, > The Kato davits are attached to the stern rail but, there are also sturdy s/s > rail support brackets that are attached from the rail, at the davit attachment > point, to inside the transom. These supports are custom made for the boat they > are to be to be used on and look nice.These supports take most of the stress > from the stern rail and direct it to the transom. I would say that the stress > is mostly divided downward on the deck pads, then the support brackets and > lastly the stern rail. > Few times nowadays do I think a company deserves a great job compliment, but > Kato's product and people were just that. > > Fred Tayman > 32-64 Magic > > From: Fred Tayman Received: 3/6/1999 8:05:10 AM Ron, When installing your davits it would be easier and quicker to just remove the water heater first thing. This lets allows you also reach the nuts on the stern rail and check them for tightness. We found many to be loose or missing. It takes only about 20 mins after draining to remove the heater. We also found a kink in the engine water supply hose to the heater. We have now doubled our hot water supply! Fred Tayman 32-64 Magic From: Steve Weiser Received: 3/8/1999 11:03:07 AM Alton--I also have a 35 and am looking into the KATO system---does your 35 have an effect, i.e squatting, from the additional weight on the stern??? I have a RIB-Apex, 9ft, and, with the davits, thought that I may have to counter the stern weight with additional weight in the bow.--I have the normal battery config in the aft cabin (4) and an inverter/charger in the port lazz bulkhead--not much more. I watched an IP-31 go by my slip with 3 people in the cockpit and Kato davits with a RIB--the stern was really down--boot stripe covered. I got worried ---Any thoughts???-- thanks for your help Bill [email protected] on 03/04/99 04:06:33 PM Please respond to [email protected] To: islpkt- [email protected] cc: (bcc: Bill Kopf/Raleigh/IBM) Subject: Re: dinghy davits We have Kato davits on our IP-35. Captain installed them with instructions from Kato. They look great. and worth the price. Kato is good people to work with. Alton & Shirley Ware IP-35-074 MYSTIC From: Alton & Shirley Ware Received: 3/8/1999 9:12:09 PM Bill Some squatting was noticed until we installed a windless and 200 feet of chain. Now we have about 1 inch of wate line left after 4- 6 volt golf cart batteries, 50lb inverter, refrigeration, and other tools and misc. Alton and Shirley Ware MYSTIC IP-35-074 From: Glen Doyon Received: 3/9/1999 10:15:58 AM In a message dated 3/8/99 11:03:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << Alton--I also have a 35 and am looking into the KATO system---does your 35 have an effect, i.e squatting, from the additional weight on the stern??? I have a RIB-Apex, 9ft, and, with the davits, thought that I may have to counter the stern weight with additional weight in the bow.--I have the normal battery config in the aft cabin (4) and an inverter/charger in the port lazz bulkhead--not much more. I watched an IP-31 go by my slip with 3 people in the cockpit and Kato davits with a RIB--the stern was really down--boot stripe covered. I got worried ---Any thoughts???--thanks for your help Bill >> Bill, I have Kato davits and an Apex rib on an IP-35. There seems to be no problem with the weight. I love the arrangement. Glen IP-35/70 Dinghy Dogs -Address Correction From: Bill Dill Received: 8/4/1998 4:26:22 PM Sorry, gang: Forgot one of the two slashes after http: Try http://www3.edgenet.net/harveyproducts/ - Bill Dill Dinghy for Sale From: Jon Bailey Received: 9/8/2003 6:43:51 PM With regrets, I have to sell my hard dinghy. It's been a great dinghy, but I can no longer leave it on my davits in my slip due to someone complaining about it interfering with them getting into their slip. I just bought an inflatable, which does NOT sail :-(, but is light enough to easily pop up on deck- now that my davits are gathering dust. If you know of anyone interested please forward my info. Dinghy is located between Annapolis & Baltimore in Maryland. I can make local deliveries. Thanks! Jon Bailey 1985 P-385 S/V Sea Dream URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jonathanebailey/images/bauer8/index.htm FOR SALE Bauer 8' Dinghy a.. Delivered Januray 7, 2000 b.. Excellent condition c.. Rows and Sails extremely well. d.. Accepts up to 2HP Outboard e.. Complete with full sailing rig a.. 2 piece aluminum mast w/halyard b.. Boom with vang c.. Tanbark color sail d.. Custom made sunbrella bags for mast/boom/sail/etc f.. Centerboard and Rudder made of starboard material a.. No maintenance b.. Centerboard and Rudder kick up for easy beaching g.. Lahna wooden oars (Finland) with captive oarlocks h.. Paid $2,214, asking $1,100 (or best offer) Contact: Jonathan Bailey (410-437-2878) [email protected] a.. Boat is in excellent condition b.. Never left
3/23/2004 10:27:09 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 11 of 62 Dinghy for Sale in the water, always stored on davits c.. Sailing rig only used a dozen times d.. Can no longer keep dinghy on davits in marina, had to get inflatable. From: Paul A Jones Received: 9/8/2003 8:23:45 PM Why not just back in? Dinghy Identification From: Glen Doyon Received: 3/28/1999 8:56:50 PM Dear Group, I have a new 9' Apex RIB dinghy which I need to label. Any suggestions as to how, where and with what to do this? Are there any legal requirements? Comments on if the tender has its own name, i.e., where to put that and where to put the yacht's name. Thanks. Glen Doyon From: Tony Driza Received: 3/28/1999 9:21:14 PM Glenn, << Are there any legal requirements? >> Not sure where you live, but in Michigan, registration has to be displayed on both sides of the dinghy. I've stenciled the numbers, which worked pretty well, and I've used the signboards that hang off either side with the numbers and expiration date tag on them. That works well too; I've seen other dinghies with the tags stuck on the transom, not sure of the legality of this. Your best bet, if no one from your state jumps in would be to call the Sec. of State's Office for your state, and see what they have to say about it. Tony IP-40-60 Whoa Nellie From: Bev Clary Received: 3/28/1999 11:59:46 PM Even better paint it some bright visible color so you can identify it at any range you can see it with field glasses. Also makes it much easier to tell where your kids are. From: Butler Smythe Received: 3/29/1999 8:12:31 AM Glen Another idea I've seen and it sure makes it easier for others to see you is to put reflective strips of tape on the transom and at the bow. Helps from getting run over at night and easier to find the boat if it gets lost. Numbers and letters on boards attached to lift lines seem to last the longest and don't get damaged when rolling up the raft. vr, Butler Smythe From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/29/1999 10:25:17 AM Another Zany Idea? You Be The Judge. To Keep Track Of Your Kids While In The Dinghy You Can Get A Bike Flag- Drill A Small Dia Hole Through The Front Lifting Handle Or Any Other One-After Threading The Flag Holder Through The Hole You Drilled Wrap Some Electric Tape Around The Top Side So It Wont Fall Through And You Have A Nice Bright Beacon To Help You Spot Em And Swat Em If They Wander To Far! Patent Pending. Bob And Mary Beth Ip-380 Queen B From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/29/1999 10:26:18 AM Imho Putting The Boat Name On Your Tender Is Not A Good Idea - As Someone Else Pointed Out This Only Helps Those Intent On Stealing Your Dinghy To Then Row ?Motor It Out To Yyour Boat And Then Ransack It! It Seems To Me There Are A Couple Of Reasons To Somehow Id Your Tender-1) To Pick It Out From A Crowed Of Similar Ones At A Busy Anchorage 2) To Id It So You Can Challenge Someone Caught With It Just A Thought-We Plan On Having The Transom Of Our Trinka Identified By Having Mark Johansen Carve A Social Security # In Two Inch Sized #'S Clearly ,Would Prefer To Have Our Boat Name Inscribed - It Is A Sign Of The Times We Live In That This Is No Longer Practical Imho Bob & Mary Beth 380/? From: Tom Bucklin Received: 3/29/1999 10:32:48 AM Robert, I seem to remember sometime ago that you settled on an exact TV/VCR combo for your new 380. What make and model and where are you placing it? Tom B Blew Yonder 380-26 From: Simon Lock Received: 3/29/1999 11:47:57 AM SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER??!! No way Bob - that would be the worst thing to put on there - with that number and a bit of time some unscrupulous person could destroy you financially!! Wishing you fair winds and good sailing Simon Lock IP-32 - Kichigai, Atlanta, GA [email protected] From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/29/1999 11:59:50 AM Bob, Why don't you give your Trinka her own name? Something like Tender Princess or Royal Tender. Rapture's inflatable tender is named RUPTURE. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Bill Brewer Received: 3/29/1999 12:05:40 PM In a message dated 3/29/99 9:26:07 AM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Just a thought-we plan on having the transom of our Trinka identified by > having Mark Johansen carve a social security # in two inch sized #'s I would strongly discourage you from carving your Social Security number in ANYTHING! Armed with that someone could not only find out EVERYTHING there is to know about you but they could steal your identity as well...and as I recall there is only 4 or 5 states where identity theft is against the law. If you are planning on keeping the dink a while you might think about carving the state registration number or your home phone number or something like that but please rethink carving your SSAN in anything! Bill :-) From: George Vandenberg Received: 3/29/1999 12:06:21 PM Rendezvous' dinghy is (per kids request) Rendez-too George Rendezvous 31-252 From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:09 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 12 of 62 Dinghy Identification From: Jon & Patty IP-37/45 Received: 3/29/1999 12:36:49 PM To all, We have been under the opinion that the dink number was the same as the federal documentation number but followed by -1. This was the concensus as of last summer. Is there anyone that can confirm or deny this information? Jon 37/45 From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/29/1999 12:52:38 PM Jon, I have a booklet in front of me issued by the U.S. Coast Guard Boating Education Branch. The booklet is named FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS AND SAFETY TIPS FOR RECREATIONAL BOATS. On page 2 under the subtitle of Registration, Numbering & Documentation it states: All undocumented vessels equipped with propulsion machinery must be registered in the State of principal use. A certificate of number will be issued upon registering the vessel. These numbers must be displayed on your vessel...... Check with your State boating authority for numbering requirements. Some States require all vessels to be numbered. I think the last sentence is in there because Federal Requirements do not require a boat to be registered that doesn't have propulsion machinery. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: George Hagerty Received: 3/29/1999 12:56:20 PM Glen, This should be a state requirement - suggest you check with your local equivelant of Dept of Natural Resources. George Hagerty Rum Line From: Bruce Gregory Received: 3/29/1999 1:13:00 PM To All- Lest we forget that some states, my home state of New Jersey for one, does NOT require a registration for any boat twelve feet or less in length used as a tender. And that includes boats with engines. However the law in this case is not vague at all, simply stated, the above holds true if the tender is used only as a means to travel from the mother vessel to shore or from shore to the momma boat. Bruce Gregory, IP-32-84 Morning Star
From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/29/1999 1:18:15 PM Glen, Per the book I referenced in my prior post, the Federal requirements, if you are going to use an OB motor on your dinghy, are: Numbers must be painted or permanently attached to each side of the forward half of the vessel. The validation stickers must be affixed within six inches of the registration number. No other letters or numbers may be displayed nearby. Under a diagram it states that the numbers/letters must be NOT LESS than 3 inches in height, in plain block characters in a color contrasting with the background. On our Avon we used the 'number boards' for a year or so but we felt they were a pain so we purchased letters and numbers made from rubber or Hypalon (or some such thing) and used the 2 part glue for Hypalon to install them along with her name. We had enough room to put her name on the bow and still put the required registration numbers on the forward half of the vessel with a decent space between them. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Jaime Ramon Received: 3/29/1999 1:24:22 PM In Florida, if you have a documented vessel you must register the dinghy with the State which means it will have it's own FL numbers etc. If your vessel is registered in the state (but NOT federally documented) then you can use the main vessel's FL number followed by a 1. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: Jon & Patty IP-37/45 Received: 3/29/1999 1:48:37 PM Thanks to all for the responses. Now all I have to do is pick a state that is kind to my portfolio, low mud taxes, and will let me paint my dinghy pink and I'll be all set.(G) Jon 37/45 From: Butler Smythe Received: 3/29/1999 2:12:02 PM Why not put a different name on your dinghy than the boat's name. It's legal! Where do you live that this is a problem? Our boat's name is CAERULEAN and the dinghy is RELAX-U (my wife's business's name). vr, Butler Smythe From: Glen Doyon Received: 3/29/1999 2:13:44 PM In a message dated 3/29/99 1:17:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << On our Avon we used the 'number boards' for a year or so but we felt they were a pain so we purchased letters and numbers made from rubber or Hypalon (or some such thing) and used the 2 part glue for Hypalon to install them along with her name. >> Dear Group, Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it. The RIB is registered in MD (and Voyager is documented) so the tag etc. will go in the forward part of the boat as required by the Feds and I think I'll use Maureen's method. My original post was intended to get info on indentifing the rubber boat in a crowd and to help suggest a name, place and method to label the name. Based on some of the suggestions I think I'll give her her own name. (I was concerned that she had to be identified with the momma boat in some way, but that does not seem to be a requirement at all). My IP is named Voyager. Any suggestions? Glen Doyon From: Gordy Henry Received: 3/29/1999 2:52:28 PM Maureen, I would have thought that an apt title for RAPTURE's dinghy would have been BLISS... From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/29/1999 3:23:47 PM Actually George always has said that if we get a hard 'pretty' dinghy, we'll name her Tender Rapture. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Jason Duncan Received: 3/29/1999 7:41:54 PM Glen, We first tried one of the paint-on numbering kits. They lasted about 1 season before they were faded away. I have a feeling letters glued onto the boat would not last to much longer, esp. if you inflate and deflate your dingy often. We now have plastic panels with the numbers attached made just for this purpose -- they hang on the bows of the dingy. The only problem w/ them is they fly up and into the boat when
3/23/2004 10:27:09 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 13 of 62 Dinghy Identification under way. Folks usually put the dinks name on the transom, just like the mothership. ------Jason S/V Truelove IP-45-28 From: Bonnie Fricchione Received: 3/29/1999 10:04:44 PM Glen: If your Yacht's name is Voyager, how about something that means quick little trip, like errand? Over the years we have tried several methods of attaching the registration numbers and name to our dinghies. First we tried the special paint for that very purpose, and by the time I got to the third number, the paint was so thick you would have been better off spreading it with a butter knife. Then, we tried the rubber letters and numbers. Application was easy, but by the end of the season, of after a few rough encounters at the dinghy dock, some letters would come unglued and fold over or flap in the breeze before departing permanently. Now we use a much simpler approach that has worked well. The registration numbers and name are applied with black permanent marker and a stencil. Very easy to touch up when required, although we haven't had to do that yet. Bonnie IP-45-029 'Time Bandit ' Dinghy - Bandito From: Jim Lawless Received: 3/30/1999 12:42:27 AM In a message dated 3/29/99 4:10:45 PM EST, [email protected] writes: <
3/23/2004 10:27:09 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 16 of 62 Dinghy Info?? Jolly Boats From: Henry McClain Received: 10/22/1998 6:08:08 AM The phone for Jolly Boats is 919/275-2040, 12011 Amedicus Ln., Ft. Myers, FL 33907 The owners name is Melvin... Good luck. H. McClain IP-35/135 Dinghy Motor Hoist From: Eric Gosch Received: 12/2/2001 7:47:24 PM We've ordered Kato davits (no arch) for our new 420, Far Niente, but question the need for a separate outboard hoist Les, you wrote about using a separate hoist. Why not just use a Kato davit arm to hoist the outboard to the motor mount? With the 6:1 purchase option, it should be an easy job, and eliminate the need for a separate hoist. Eric Gosch IP-420-46 Far Niente > No matter what outboard you get, I would make sure your KATO arch has an outboard lift arm on it. We installed an >Edson outboard motor mount on the port side of the stern rail just inward of the seat and lift the motor from there to the >dinghy in the water with the arch mounted lift arm. It works great. > Les From: Les Adams Received: 12/2/2001 10:36:00 PM The use of a davit as an outboard hoist to raise the motor to the sternrail would not work because you would not be able to get the motor above the rail to drop it down onto the rail for storage. Kato sells a stand alone outboard hoist that you could consider. Les From: Tom Jones Received: 12/3/2001 6:34:28 AM Eric; Remember also you will have a stabilizing bar connecting your davits, so you would not be able to swing the davit arm over to the stern rail, in addition to the height not being correct. We use a Forespar motor lift(100lbs. max.) which can remain in place or be stowed below, and it works great. Regards, Tom From: Richard V. Michaels Received: 12/3/2001 10:20:05 AM Eric, The motor would be hanging too far out so you would have to unhook your stabilizing bar that connects the two davits and then swing the arm in. Then you'd see that the hoist is not high enough because you have to get the top of the OB at least a foot and maybe more above the stern rail in order to get the motor mount clamps onto your stern rail motor mount bracket. If the bracket is an Edison, the top of it sits about 6 above the stern rail. We use a removable Forespar lift that you can pickup from west marine. Regards, Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 Dinghy Motor Hoist & Windgen From: Cliff Kisby Received: 12/4/2001 10:14:54 AM Can't help you with your question but how do you like your hard dodger. It looks good and in porportion with the rest of the boat. Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby IP-40-75 From: Eric Gosch Received: 12/4/2001 10:54:29 AM Bob, Try Garhauer Marine at garhaurer.com. They made a 9' wind generator pole with a motor hoist for me on my IP-37- great quality at a great price. They can make whatever height pole and whatever length hoist arm - ask for John. Eric Gosch IP-420-46 Far Niente From: Russ Boley Received: 12/4/2001 11:14:08 AM Four Winds makes a terrific stainless hoist mechanism that attaches to the pole. It's removeable for when not in use. No need to have a higher pole than normal. My wife can take the motor on and off the stern by herself with this lifting device. It becomes a one person operation. A great back saver!! Russ Boley CAPTAIN SIR! IP-45-12 From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 12/4/2001 1:00:16 PM We have the Four Winds generator and we also purchased their ss hoist which mounts to the pole. The hoist is easily removed so it can be stored out of the sun. I easily hoist the outboard on and off the boat with it, while George stands in the dinghy guiding the outboard. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: The Marchands Received: 12/4/2001 1:23:57 PM Hi: I am about to purchase an IP-37 and have checked out radar/windgen poles and O/B davits. Kato Marine makes a nice heavy duty pole with or without davit that can be used for either radar or windgen. It is made with 3 tubing on the lower half and 2-1/2 on the upper one so it is plenty strong. The only issue it seems is that the davit must of course be mounted below the windgen blade radius. If so, will it give you enough lift height for the O/B or said differently will the pole be too high to be stable. I would suggest measuring these dimensions and see what the overall pole length has to be and contact Kato to see if this length is feasible. David From: Jaime Ramon Received: 12/4/2001 2:13:23 PM Bob, Like Russ mentioned the Four Winds has as an accesory the dinghy engine crane. We have it and use it alot. One thing I would do differently if I were installing the wind generator is to install it on the port side. This way when you put the engine on the rail it does not become added weight to all the stuff you may have stored in the lazerette hence a possible starboard list. BTW the crane works great for lifting other items out of the dink like fuel jugs, water jugs, groceries. etc. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: Sherri & Glen Wells Received: 12/5/2001 4:14:39 PM Yeah Shure! I added a hoist to the vertical support for my KISS gen for the 74 lb 10hp outboard. I designed it to store out of the way when generating power. I used parts available from the local West Marine. Glenn Wells Lady Ann IP-32 #120 Dinghy Motors From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:09 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 17 of 62 Dinghy Motors From: Dave Bowler Received: 8/30/1999 8:19:52 PM I have just purchased a used Johnson 6hp outboard for my Avon dinghy. Now I need some place to stow it. The aft end of the 320 is used up with stern rail seats, GPS antenna, swim ladder, and so on. I'm sure our resident safety engineer can tell my why I shouldn't keep the engine in one of my cockpit lockers. It does not have a built in gas tank and I am assuming that if I disconnect the gas hose while the engine is still running, gas should be eliminated from the lines in the engine and then be perfectly safe to keep in the locker. OK so what am I missing here? Dave Bowler IP-320-05 Sunday Morning From: Author Unknown Received: 8/30/1999 9:25:56 PM If there is good ventilation in your locker it will probably be ok, but be aware that a primary issue with gasoline is fumes and the potential of explosion. With that in mind, it does not take much gasoline to generate sufficient fumes to be a concern. What's left in your tank could be enough to worry about. From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 8/31/1999 9:49:20 AM Years ago, before we bought Rapture, I saw a cruising boat with an outboard stowed up-right in a hanging locker like the one I have in the main saloon. Of course you would need to come up with a strong bracket to secure it to. Also, not being familiar with the floor plan of the 32, I'm not sure you have the locker I'm referring to. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Jaime Ramon Received: 8/31/1999 11:32:24 AM Maureen, Do you have the same storage problem and if so how did you solve it. I used to be able to put my 4hp on the stern rail (tight fit between davits, bbq, bimini, antenaes, etc.) but that engine got stolen. Now I have a 15hp and I'm having a storage problem. At the dock it will go below so it won't get stolen as easy but while cruising I rather put it elsewhere. Any sugestions? Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 Dinghy Motors/Sliding Doors From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 8/31/1999 12:03:13 PM Jaime, We're still able to keep our 8hp Nissan on the stern rail, only other spot would be possibly in the hanging closet in the main saloon. We had one of those bar type locks that completely covers the 'twisters' that tighten the outboard onto the stern. Has anyone lost an outboard while using one of these locks? Butler, Our sliding doors are all in 'like new' condition. No warping or anything. I think, perhaps because our boat came from the factory with interior varnish, that it was protected from moisture getting to the adhesive. Plus, I think the doors are wood on the inside too. I'll try to remember to look this next weekend. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Jaime Ramon Received: 8/31/1999 1:28:48 PM Maureen Both my engine and the other two which were stolen at our marina had the bar you mentioned. One of the engines was also bolted to the stern rail. Apparently thieves were well prepared. Regarding storage the closet is packed with other stuff I'll have to see where else it can be stowed. How difficult was it to replace hinges on hatches? I have two which need replacement but have no idea on how to go about it. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 Dinghy Names From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/29/1999 3:12:49 PM Glen, You'll have to forgive my spelling on these but I think you will get the idea: Voyeur, Trekee, Wayfarer or Waifarer, Jaunt Have fun, Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Glen Doyon Received: 3/29/1999 7:12:48 PM Thanks for your suggestions. I am a Beatle fan and a Star Trek fan as well. Day Tripper goes well with Voyager. Has a bit more charm than Shuttle Craft. (I can see myself on the boat with my son: Number One, prepare the Shuttle Craft for launching. Get a life, Dad.) Glen From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/29/1999 8:42:35 PM Simon Pick, Pick, Pick ; . ) My Motto 'When In Doubt Spl. Phoneticalee' ; .) Mary Beth And I Spent Two Weeks In France. She Stood By Silently As I Butchered The Language -In The Provences Few Speak English. As We Were About To Return Home She Rescued Me From A Situation In Very Passable French Claimed In Took Her 2 Weeks To Get Her H.S.French Back-At That Moment I Understood The Reason For Her Laughter Every Time I Spoke. My 'Show' Was The Highlight Of The Trip For Her! Have A Good Night Simon - As They Say In Italia Chow From: Bev Clary Received: 3/30/1999 3:03:46 AM I think a Voyager probably should have a LANDER or a LANDING MODULE The cutest one I've seen is St. George Pinkneys boat Named the Dragon with its dinghy, the St. George From: Albert & Helen Powell Received: 3/30/1999 7:58:11 AM The dingy that came with the IP we bought is October has what I think is a clever name - a name I think we will keep: Ruth 1:16 (Wither thow goest I will follow). Albert Powell Avalon IP-35 #89 From: John Galt Received: 3/30/1999 8:00:34 AM Dear net, Kaereste means Sweetheart in Danish, we call our dink Tender- heart. Let's see the crooks put 2 and 2 together for that one. John & Linda s/v Kaereste From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 18 of 62 Dinghy Names From: David Juall Received: 3/30/1999 8:53:50 AM Bonnie and I own a IP Packet Cat (PC-28), the boat's name is THE BRAC CAT, so of course the dinghy's name fit right in with THE BRAC KITTEN. Safe sailing to all, David Juall Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From: Glen Doyon Received: 3/30/1999 2:33:11 PM In a message dated 3/30/99 7:57:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << The dingy that came with the IP we bought is October has what I think is a clever name - a name I think we will keep: Ruth 1:16 (Wither thow goest I will follow). Albert Powell Avalon IP-35 #89 >> Love that name. Great name for your IP too. Good luck with the batteries. This next winter's project for our 35 is to upgrade the power supply system. Glen IP-35/70 Dinghy Purchase From: Ken Chattell Received: 12/5/2001 2:25:08 PM I am looking to purchase a new RIB inflatable. I have come across one made in europe and sold by a canadian distributor by the name of Brig Inflatables. I have 2 questions and they are Has anyone on the list any experience with one of their products? The material used is Mirasol.Iis there any experience with this material? Should anyone have a RIB and motor for sale (9ft. to 9.5ft.) let me know off line as I would be interested. Ken Chattell Geneva IP-40-61 Dinghy Registration From: Steve Weiser Received: 8/20/1998 11:17:30 PM After seeing the recent posts about putting U.S. Coast Guard documentation numbers on the dinghy, followed by a -1, instead of registering the dink with the State and paying for it, I decided to check it out. I called the Coast Guard District HQ in the San Francisco area (510-437-3700). They were very courteous and referred me to the National Vessel Documentation Center (800-799-8362). After going through voicemail Hell there, I spoke to a courteous human being, who firmly stated that documentation numbers cannot be applied to accessory vessels. In other words, you cannot avoid state registration by putting Documentation numbers on your dink. So, in my case I'll continue to pay an irritating annual fee to the State of California's Dept. of Motor Vehicles for my dinghy registration. It's only five or ten bucks, but: All the fees and taxes boaters pay, at least in this State, do not seem to find their way back to services and amenities for boaters, like more mooring buoys or more pumpouts, or how about more navaids, deeper channels, more approvals for marina expansion, fuel docks, etc.? If anyone has better or more complete info, please post it for our education. I'm not eager to pay more taxes into the black hole in Sacramento, or any other State in the future. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Author Unknown Received: 8/21/1998 10:10:51 AM I checked out the same question on the West Coast and was told that the documentation numbers could not be put on the tender but the name of the documented vessel could. With the name on the documented vessel on the tender, state registration was/is not required. I have had no problems with state authorities on this. The catch is that the dink must be being used as a tender for the documented vessel, that is to say you can't deflate it and take it off to a lake for a fishing trip while the mother ship is in a slip on the bay From: Cliff Kisby Received: 8/21/1998 12:56:40 PM Steve, I was always under the impression that if you used your dink for transportation to and from your yacht you are exempt from registration. I believe I got that info from a maritime lawyer years ago , but check it out. Also if you joy ride your dink other then strickly transportation to and from your boat they will nail you. Cliff kisby I.P.40-75 LADY LEX From: Louis & Laura Sudler Received: 8/21/1998 6:15:40 PM in michigan if you row under 14 ft; no reg; witha motor, always register regards - allegria From: Dennis Wall Received: 8/21/1998 10:24:29 PM In Florida, no registration, no dinghy #'s and sticker, you are ticketed by Florida Marine Plus, you better have life jackets for each individual aboard and a whistle. Patrol. D. Wall - Oceana IP-38 From: Robert Renes Received: 8/22/1998 7:56:30 PM In Florida, as long as you don't use a motor (sail or row) you don't need a registration. This I was nicely told by a Florida Marine Patrol that stopped us once while motoring, when I told him I was under the impression that any power less then 10 hp did not require registration (reason for the 9.9 hp on most outboard, so I thought) did not require decal and number. As it turns out he showed me I was wrong and gave me a writen warninig. Robert IP-38-61 From: Jim Sheppard Received: 8/22/1998 8:39:55 PM A minor but interesting point. If you put your vessel name on your dink, when it is observed ashore thieves may assume your boat is unattended. Not a good idea especially if your are out of the country. Jim CRUX IP-45-20 From: Ralp Levitt Received: 9/8/1998 1:05:35 PM In a message dated 98-08-21 08:12:30 EDT, you write: << The little state of Rhode Island - if your dinghy is only used for a tender, it need not be registed >> In RI any watercraft that has mechanical propulsion, ie, motor, MUST be registered. And the motor, also, but only once for $15. RI maybe little in size but is BIG on collections. However, if you define tender as being propelled only by rowing (or sailing) then you are right, no registration is required, regardless of size. Ralph Levitt SECOND LOVE, ex of RI, now in MA (also know as taxachussetts) From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 19 of 62 Dinghy Registration From: Joanne Ross Received: 9/26/2003 2:20:24 AM in florida, also, you must register your dinghy if plan to use it with a motor. joanne ross mach turtle ip 38-162 Dinghy Size From: Charles Ouimet Received: 3/18/1999 8:15:14 AM Hi Dan. You can have a self-bailing drain put in (I did) that accomplishes the same thing. Charlie O, Serenity IP-35-94 Dinghy Size And Drain From: Butler Smythe Received: 3/18/1999 9:19:32 AM Dan, Our 8' Trinka has the older style drain which is just a bronze fitting with a screw in plug. We might retrofit to the newer style some day but have too many other projects at this point. The plug works fine on the davits. You just have to remember to put in back in when putting in the water. I had a cover made for it which I leave in place all the time to protect the wood and to keep the water out. vr, Butler Smythe Dinghy Storage From: Howard Thompson Received: 5/31/1999 9:20:44 PM We own an IP-32 and are wondering how other IP-32 owners carry their dinghies. If you use davits, can you carry a 10' inflatable without having it take on water when heeled. Any information and suggestions will be appreciated. Howard Thompson From: Dan Gibson Received: 6/12/1999 12:03:33 AM Howard, I didn't see a lot of discussion on your specific question of davits for IP-32. Attached are the previous notes on 'Dinghy Davits' from the Sail Mail document (you can find the full document at IPHomePort site). Hope this helps, Dan Gibson DINGHY DAVITS This past weekend I was down in Panama City Beach. At the Bayview Marina by the PCB Marriott I were two IPs - they were either IP-37's or IP-40's. Thet went by the names of Con Brio and Carpe Diem. Both vessels had their dingy mounted on the stern standing on edge. Regrettably neither owner was available to enquire about this method of stowing the dingy. Is anybody in this august group the owner of either vessel and if so can you describe how you are holding your dingy in place? If neither owner participates does anybody know who the owners are or care to speculate how the owners were attaching their dingy to the stern? Does one maintain the dingy here when underway? and if so how can you look backwards when your vision up to the top of the bimini is obscured by dingy? Wishing you fair winds and good sailing Simon Lock IP-32 - Kichigai, Atlanta, GA [email protected] 16 Feb 99 Dingy on edge, I have been using this method successfully for two years. Edson makes brackets, which fit. We tie our Avon on the boat on four points. No problems leaving it there while sailing (even in heavy seas), also my delivery captain prefers to tie it down on the foredeck for offshore work ( I guess habits). My view is not obstructed back if I sit straight up. [email protected] 17 Feb 99 Hello to everybody, Judy and I are considering adding Kato davits to our IP-40 this Spring. Does anyone out there have any experience with this product. How easy is the installation? Is this a good product? Any comments would be appreciated. Ron , IP-40-35 Delicia Dinghy Storage (folding RIBs) From: Robert Fifer Received: 5/13/2003 11:55:04 AM So now there are two inflatables RIB's available with fold-down transoms, the new Avon R3.10Lite that Colwell mentioned yesterday, and the Bombard AX5000 (or 5001) that Richard Power mentioned on April 18. They are both about the same size and weight. The folding transom makes it possible to store the deflated dinghy on deck under the staysail boom, or below. We didn't know about the Avon, and ordered the Bombard a few days ago. I just called Defender, to find out the difference. The Avon has the more durable Hypalon fabric, and the Bombard PVC fabric. The Defender price is $2471 for the Avon, and $1740 for the Bombard. I wish I had know about both a couple of weeks ago. Oh well...... Bob Fifer IP38-63 Velero Bush River, Maryland on May 12, 2003, Colwell Carey wrote: I just made a decision on a dinghy and went with the Avon RIB Lite 3.10 in part because it is significantly lighter than the standard RIB. I think the 3.10 is ~ 95 lbs. The bigger factor was the ability to store it in a bag down below during those infrequent (for most of us) offshore passages. It comes with a padded bag and folds to ~ sailboard size and will fit in the forward cabin which is mostly unsleepable in normal offshore conditions, but would still allow a single person to get wedged in next to it. It planes very easily with one or two - powered by a Yamaha 8-HP four-stroke and has the protection of the hard bottom. on April 18, 2003, Richard Power wrote: I have Bombard RIB with a fold down transom (called AX 5001 Compact in UK 10ft 2 ins LOA) it fits on the fore deck (clear of the stay sail boom) when deflated and folded into its bag, it covers up the fore hatch though. I usually carry it on davits fitted to the radar arch. -- Richard Power Niord IP 380 - 109 Chichester UK ______Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From: Catherine Hounshell Received: 5/13/2003 11:23:06 PM Bob, I think, if I remember correctly, the Avon has a 10 year warranty, as opposed to the Bombard"s 5 year, and the rub "rail" on the Avon is larger. When our second hand, tiny dink goes, our next one will be a Hypalon rib. Catherine Galatea 380-18 Dinghy stories From: David Neelon Received: 2/27/2002 5:01:19 PM My worst blown-away-in-the-dinghy moment happened in the BVI when the ***%$#@@!!! charter boat's oatboard wouldn't start when we wanted to go to dinner at Cooper Island Beach club. Not to worry, I thought. We're moored just a short row away. Do you think I could cross the wind and make the dock? No way. Got pulled in by some very friendly and amused Brits from a megayacht, in front of those assembled at the bar/restaurant. Almost as embarrassing as the time we broached on the beach landing in front of that nice restaurant called The Wedding (gone
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 20 of 62 Dinghy stories now) in Cane Garden Bay, all dressed up for New Years Eve. Ah yes, dinghies are as much fun as the big boats. David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: Dave Bowler Received: 2/27/2002 8:44:34 PM OK, as long as we are telling dingy stories: Anchored off the fort in Saint Augustine, I left the dinghy motor at home. Only about a 50 yard row from shore to boat. In town to eat dinner and watch football at local bar, then back to boat. Tide now running at 2+ kts. with wind going same way, into the Bridge of Lions. Wife on bow, me with ors in hand. 50 yards and 1/2 hr later we grab swim ladder. The tourist on shore began cheering and I see money change hands. Dave Bowler IP-320-05 Sunday Morning Ponte Vedra Beach, FL. From: Andrew Gantt Received: 3/1/2002 12:01:11 PM Dear Dave, Part of our sacred duty as boaters is to provide amusement for those on shore. Yet another reason not to have a motor on a dinghy!. Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350/88 From: Colwell Carey Received: 3/1/2002 2:25:31 PM One of the best reasons for not having the outboard motor; other than the exercise; is that you actually get to meet and talk with people as you make your way through the anchorage. Carey From: David Thurn Received: 3/1/2002 2:46:36 PM What are ships for? They have cut me off, refused to answer my call, and have generally made a nuisance of themselves. And this is only on the lower portion of Lake Michigan. :-) David Thurn IP-350-49 Promises From: Andrew Gantt Received: 3/1/2002 3:43:09 PM Dear Carey, I agree wholeheartedly. I feel that dinghy motors are part of a hurried and noisy world; avoiding all that is a main reason I go sailing. Sometimes, when we have more than two guests to pick up at the dock, we have to make two trips in our 2/3 person Achilles dinghy, sometimes when we want to go up a Maine river, we have to wait for a favorable tidal current. But, in all honesty, having a small, motorless dinghy has never been much of a problem, and there are all the benefits of stowage, low cost, no motor and no davits. All in all, it's a blessing. Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350/88 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 3/1/2002 3:44:13 PM Dear David, We were half way between Cape May and the Azores, and a big boy as we call them was 3000 yards away on a collision course. My wife, the radio delegate, called the ship, telling them that they were on a collision course, and asking them their intentions. A very deep male voice replied saying, Madam, I can assure you that my intentions are only honorable. He changed course!! Best, Andrew Mary Cabell IP- 350/88 From: Bill Langlois Received: 3/1/2002 4:14:07 PM I have read that women get a response on a VHF more often then men, although in Chile, the macho response was may I speak to the captain. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Mike Ratliff Received: 3/1/2002 8:43:10 PM This discussion really hinges on what you anticipate your dinghy usage will be and where it will be done. I would never go cruising into areas where I know there will be strong currents and wind and try to row an inflatable under these conditions. There are stories of people not ever making it back to the mother ship. I have retrieved at least 3 people over the years who went ashore and could not row back to their boat due to the adverse conditions. If one anchors in remote areas a motorized dinghy, IMHO, is a safety issue, and it can make a great tugboat when Sea Tow is not within 1000 miles! Mike Ratliff S/V Seabbatical IP-35-42 From: Bruce Gregory Received: 3/1/2002 9:20:00 PM Mike- You sure have my vote, a thoughtful post....may I include a story of an ironman friend of mine who died at his oars of a heart attack while bucking a current that he insisted he could make without a motor. Fair winds and calm seas, Bruce Gregory, IP-32-84 Morning Star From: Andrew Gantt Received: 3/2/2002 12:22:43 PM Dear Mike, Perhaps it's more of a safety issue when those with motorized dinghies don't carry oars along, and I've seen lots of them. Best, Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350/88 From: Herb Kuschner Received: 3/2/2002 12:28:49 PM I can't believe than anyone goes out in a motorized dinghy without carrying oars. herb kuschner fascinating rhythm IP-38 #38 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 3/2/2002 4:58:43 PM The dinghy discussion is interesting--we tend to drift off into a What's RIGHT conversation. Other than the idea that it's a good thing to carry oars even in a motorized dinghy, and that an anchor is always a good thing, otherwise it would seem to be more a matter of personal preference which covers the whole range of those who would like to sail like Slocum--wooden boat, no motor, hard dinghy, to those who prefer a mega- yacht like those found in Yachting. Clearly, a dinghy without a motor is more toward the Slocum end of the spectrum. That end involves incoveniences, particularly if one is on a schedule. Not a time schedule, but a destination within a time schedule. If you're at the 79th St. marina in NYC and there's a tidal current which you can't row against, then without a motor, you have to wait until you can row. In a way, that's the whole difference: the Slocum end of the spectrum waits until the sea conditions afford an opportunity--the mega-yacht end can almost always make its own schedule. Up to a certain point, seamanship compensates for the move toward mega-yacht conditions, but only up to a certain point. After that point, there's more risk on the Slocum end in most situations. The QE 2 will have a better chance in a hurricane than the best sailed 35 foot sail boat. Thus, to greater or lesser degree, we are all choosing a risk level in buying and equipping a boat. Example: we don't have a
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 21 of 62 Dinghy stories SSB on the Mary Cabell. All in all, it's most likely riskier not to have one. For me, the lack of ability to contact those far away adds to the pleasure of being at sea. In the past, the Marion-Bermuda and Newport-Bermuda races did not require SSBs--now they do. I really enjoyed the Marion-Bermuda race when it was done with celestial and no radio contact. Now, I don't. I don't want to have to report my position, and hear everyone else's daily. I prefer having to figure out how to get into a foggy harbor without radar. I prefer having a boat that's small enough not to require a windlass, or electric winches. But, I don't want a wooden boat! There's nothing right in most of this, just personal preference. To end with dinghies: often, it's less risky to have a dinghy with a motor than one without. Yet, there are many compensations: no davits, no gasoline, no motor to take care of, no problem of stowage at sea. We all choose our own poison! Best wishes, Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350-88 From: Mike Ratliff Received: 3/2/2002 6:44:40 PM Andrew, could not agree with you more. No one should ever leave the mother ship without the oars, however, given the rowing characteristics of inflatables I much prefer power as primary with Armstrong as a reliable backup! Mike Ratliff S/V Seabbatical IP-35-42 Dinghy Stowage On IP-40 From: Tony Driza Received: 3/10/1998 7:44:27 PM Just wondering where is the best place to stow a dinghy on the IP-40? We have a West Marine RU-285, that folds up into a rather largish steamer trunk when it's in the carrying bag. It doesn't look like I can put it forward of the mast with the cutter boom. It's fairly heavy, so below is not an option. I was thinking of leaving it deflated, but unfolded forward of the mast, and secured. Another option might be near the stern rail. I'm not too keen on davits, and can't tow it all the time. What has worked for you? Many thanks and fair winds, Tony From: Steve Weiser Received: 3/11/1998 11:51:57 PM Tony...we have a 10.5 foot Zodiac. We had a canvas shop make an on deck bag for it with securing straps, etc. out of Sunbrella. This sits nicely on the starboard side of the cabin top, secured to the handrails, just aft of the mast. However, we are going to have a radar arch installed with davits, so that's where the dink will be except when we are on the ocean. Steve Weiser EMILY Dinghy Tow / Folding RIB From: Peter Malloy Received: 7/15/2003 4:45:39 PM My old zodiac is ready to bite the dust and I am trying to figure out the best solution for my 31. The zodiac is a wood-slatted rollup model and is a bit heavy and troublesome to lug around and inflate all the time. I am considering alternatives. Any views on the Dinghy Tow contraption which tows the dinghy backwards, stern up behind the boat? Any views on folding RIBS, the Tinker foldaway or The Clam? Thanks Peter Malloy S/V Quint 31 - 172 From: Peter Malloy Received: 7/16/2003 7:54:39 AM My old zodiac is ready to bite the dust and I am trying to figure out the best solution for my 31. The zodiac is a wood-slatted rollup model and is a bit heavy and troublesome to lug around and inflate all the time. I am considering alternatives. Any views on the Dinghy Tow contraption which tows the dinghy backwards, stern up behind the boat? Any views on folding RIBS, the Tinker foldaway or The Clam? Thanks Pete Malloy S/V Quint 31 - 172 From: Peter Malloy Received: 7/16/2003 11:44:38 AM My old zodiac is ready to bite the dust and I am trying to figure out the best solution for my 31. The zodiac is a wood-slatted rollup model and is a bit heavy and troublesome to lug around and inflate all the time. I am considering alternatives. Any views on the Dinghy Tow contraption which tows the dinghy backwards, stern up behind the boat? Any views on folding RIBS, the Tinker foldaway or The Clam? Thanks Pete Malloy S/V Quint 31 - 172 PS This is the third time I have sent this email. They do not seem to be going through. So if you received this more than once, you have my apologies. From: Bob Gates Received: 7/16/2003 12:03:54 PM Pete- Your messages are getting through. I raised the question about the dinghy-tow about a year ago. The only response I received was indirect, in that it didn't refer to the dingy tow or it's installation, but someone noted that a friend of his had his dinghy melt when pulled up too close to the engine exhaust outlet. This was not related to a dinghy tow installation. Someone else asked the question about six months ago and got no replies. Maybe that was you. Can only assume that no one on this list has any experience with it. Regards, Bob Any views on the Dinghy Tow contraption which tows the dinghy backwards, stern up behind the boat? Any views on folding RIBS, the Tinker foldaway or The Clam? Thanks Pete Malloy S/V Quint 31 - 172 PS This is the third time I have sent this email. They do not seem to be going through. So if you received this more than once, you have my apologies. From: Al Sandman Received: 7/16/2003 12:39:59 PM Pete, there doesn't seem to be any one solution to your problem, the fact is all of us find different compromises for dinghy's. I have metal stick on davits which I used to use on my ip32, the went on the stern rails, and were sort of cradles for the tubes on my old zodiac (MY OLD ZODIAC WAS A SOFT SLATED FLOOR OVAL JOB ABOUT 55 LB.), It worked but even though the lifting of the ding was a bit of pain it held the ding securely. Given the stern on the 31, I almost always just drag my just expired Quick silver Ding (about 105 lb. with floor and ors), with Hard plywood floors. The lifting weight, and the effort and room needed to assemble was just too much to try and get it up or deflate for storage on my ip350/63. I really don't like lifting davits, and my old snap on cradle davits won't fit on my current boat because of the stern rail configuration with the tow stern seats. I just bought at West Marine and new Ding, that is 9'4" and has an inflatable hard floor, (made by Zodiac) It cost about $1900. And weighs only about 53lbs. I made a harness out of 3/8 braided Polyester and nylon line which connects to the two toe rings on port & Starboard of the bow, and joined them at a high grade solid steel ring, with the tether line running from the ring to the cleat on the boat. Depending
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 22 of 62 Dinghy Tow / Folding RIB on the sea state I lengthen or shorten the tether. I works for me. Since I have no intentions of going off to Bermuda or the Azores, I think it will work fine for the coastal cruising we do. Alan Sandman ip350/63 Al-Lin's Dream From: Brian Collier Received: 7/16/2003 12:40:21 PM I too have looked at the various ways to carry my dinghy on my 31. I have a 10' RIB with a 15 HP. I placed some queries looking for input on the Dinghy Tow setup, but never really got much in the way of responses. I ended up getting a set of Kato davits. Regards, Brian Calm C's IP31 #40 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 7/16/2003 9:29:22 PM We had a considerable discussion on dinghies and towing about six months ago. My view is that one should not tow dinghies in the ocean, and I feel that davits are a poor idea as well, so I have a 2/3 man old Achilles dinghy which I can lift on board myself and stow in a small bag in a locker. In the Scilly Isles last summer, I saw someone with a folding plywood sailing dinghy. He happily came directly upwind sailing (tacking) through a crowded mooring field, got to his 31' sailboat, proceeded to take his dinghy apart, and stowed it neatly on board. Nice work. If I got more complicated, I think that's the route I'd take. Andrew "Mary Cabell" IP-350/88 From: Carey Colwell Received: 7/17/2003 8:44:05 AM I purchased the Avon RIB "Lite" 3.10 with folding transom this spring. I am happy with it. I carry it on KATO Ocean davits. I felt that with the ability to "bag it", I could store it below on an off-shore passage. Also, it is ~ 50 lbs. lighter than the regular 3.10. I put a Yamaha * HP 4-stroke on it and it has plenty of power. With my wife and I aboard (~375 lbs.) it will plane at about 1/3 throttle. Carey and Bobbi Colwell Catspaw, 380-22 Narragansett Bay From: Joanne Ross Received: 7/17/2003 10:12:18 AM > Carey, is it possible for you to forward the approximate dimensions of the rib lite in its folded state? thanks in advance for the info. joanne ross mach turtle ip 38 From: Carey Colwell Received: 7/17/2003 10:52:29 AM I will try to remember to retrieve that data on my next visit to the boat. Carey and Bobbi Colwell Catspaw, 380-22 Narragansett Bay From: Joanne Ross Received: 7/17/2003 2:11:29 PM > carey, thank you joanne ross mach turtle ip38 From: Glen Read Received: 7/17/2003 2:35:31 PM Carey, Have you tried locating the dingy upside down on the foredeck with the tubes deflated? I have been thinking about getting the same unit. How heavy is the outboard? Do you know the HP? Glen 40/62 From: Carey Colwell Received: 7/17/2003 3:50:25 PM It would fit on the foredeck; in or out of it's bag; but I have this thing about clean decks when off-shore. I would not want fuel jugs on my side deck, etc. The outboard is 8 HP and weighs in at 83 lbs. There are times when I think that the 4HP would have been enough, but most people advise that down in the Islands, you will wish you had more power for the longer dinghy trips. The yamaha is quiet and easy to start 9, even after I baptized it on day 1.... don't ask :-) Carey and Bobbi Colwell Catspaw, 380-22 Narragansett Bay From: C Joseph Barnette Received: 7/17/2003 11:37:37 PM During the 1500 I stowed a Carib 10.5 on the foredeck. It was deflated and I had a bag made to stow it in. In addition two pad eyes were installed to provide solid attachment points. It was held down by two ratcheting straps around it . The towing eye was firmly attached to to point where the stay sail boom normally is attached. The boom had been removed. I also had six cans of fuel on the foredeck secured behind a plank of scaffolding lumber firmly attached to two stanchions. Each can had three straps. One around top to bottom, one opposite and one to keep the can from lifting. While I also don't like to stow things on deck there is often no other way. I had no problem with this arrangement in 50 knot plus winds and lots of waves. I have had the fuel containers on deck for many passages and have never had a problem. I think the key is to think it out and prepare for the worst. I have watched other tie cans with a single line to stanchions and expect them to stay secured - that doesn't work. Joe Colwell Carey M NPRI
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 23 of 62 dinghy/liferaft all-in-one? From: Gray Jones Received: 9/10/2003 4:27:02 PM Larry and Lin Pardey recommend using a tender than can be rigged as a sailing liferaft rather than having a separate liferaft. Of course this approach saves money and space. They also say that it is safer since you use your tender very often, you will know that it will work in an emergency. They recommend a design by Steve Callahan. Unfortunately, the company that was producing Steve's design has disappeared. Here's the link to the Pardey's page: http://www.landlpardey.com/Tips/Tips_2003_January.html I found a similar craft, the Tinker Foldaway. It is a folding fiberglass hull with an inflatable bouyancy ring. They offer a sailing kit and a survival canopy for it. It can also use a 4 horsepower outboard. http://www.tinker.co.uk/html/foldaway.htm Unfortunately, Tinker's US distributors seem to have disappeared too. Any thoughts on this concept? thanks, --gray IP Wannabee and avid websurfer ===== Gray Jones [email protected] From: Andrew Gantt Received: 9/10/2003 8:26:00 PM Dear Gray, The reason pure liferafts may stay right side up (not always) in the heavy seas you might use them in is that they have water ballast pockets underneath. You may also remember that Shackleton's "Cairn" had more or less a ton of rocks for ballast. I don't think that any dinghy I've seen would stay upright in the kinds of seas we encounter in the ocean. It seems to me that the two functions: dinghy and liferaft, are so different, that it's better to stick to a life-raft for the ultimate awfulness. Andrew "Mary Cabell" IP-350/88 From: Brockett Muir, Jr. Received: 9/11/2003 6:56:20 AM In Ocean Navigator No. 128 (March/April 2003) Twain Braden wrote an article reviewing David Hulbert's eight foot sailing lifeboat, the Portland Pudgy. Basically a roto-molded unsinkable pram which can handle a six horsepower engine and which can function as a combination "dinghy and survival platform." It looked promising enough for me to clip and save the article. Hulbert expected the prototype to be finished in mid-2003, tested by Zack Smith of Fiorentino in Newport Beach, and to start building them in Maine later this year. The basic Pudgy was to sell for less than $1,000. Options such as sailing rig, exposure canopy, sea anchor, and basic bulletproof electrical system for an illuminated compass, navigation light and power spotlight would add to that cost. This thread has prompted me to check on the current status of this interesting solution to the dinghy/liferaft challenge. Unfortunately, an iLOR search has come up empty-handed. However the concept is so valid that I cannot believe that the Pudgy will not pop up somewhere soon. I will buy one. In the meantime I am trusting my life to keeping the water out of the boat and the boat off of the rocks. Everything else seems to be taking care of itself. Brockett TRAFALGAR IP29 - 01 From: Cliff Kisby Received: 9/11/2003 7:26:37 AM Brockett, nothing will replace a life raft for survival. Don't kid yourself. Regards, Cliff IP 40-75 Cliff & Pam Kisby From: Andrew Gantt Received: 9/11/2003 8:42:13 AM Dear Brockett, Assuming the concept is feasible, where would you stow it on your boat? Andrew "Mary Cabell" IP-350/88 From: Brockett Muir, Jr. Received: 9/12/2003 3:16:36 AM [email protected]@aol.com9/11/03 8:[email protected] > Dear Brockett, Assuming the concept is feasible, where would you stow it on > your boat? Andrew "Mary Cabell" IP-350/88 > Andrew: Good question, and probably impossible on a 29. But a great concept for anyone who has eight feet of foredeck space. I suppose that no matter how attractive the Pudgy may be I will be constrained by size to my old Avon Redstart and the Switlik in the lazarette. I have been sailing the past couple of days, and am pleased to catch up with our forum. It seems quite healthy and worthwhile now. I, too, am proud of my Masters license (coming up on my fourth renewal). It never occurred to me that it might be a liability, and, having considered that possibility, I have decided not to worry about it. (I also have a drivers' license, which I also plan to keep current.) To the member who is planning on moving up from a 27 I would advise not to let the old boat get too far out of sight. As we age the smaller craft just might allow us to keep going for years after a big boat might force us out because of the expense of maintaining the beast in retirement, or the problem of handling it with an aging or short-handed crew. I have stepped down in size from a Mason 44. The IP29 has been a great compromise for me. And I am still sailing (at an age I prefer not to mention). Lastly, I would like to apply for membership in the Albermarle Yacht Club. I am old enough to remember Carrol's Tea Room and the Duck Races on Sunday morning. Does that qualify me? Brockett TRAFALGAR IP29 - 01 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 9/12/2003 8:29:10 AM Dear Brockett, Sure, it qualifies you. There is no entrance fee! If you're serious, let me get in touch with the Commodore, and I'll find out the specifics. And, without carping (:, I surely concur with your note about smaller boats and older age. Andrew "Mary Cabell" IP-350/88 Dinghy'S From: Thomas J. Hayden Received: 3/6/2000 2:27:52 PM No Bill, we were playing bumper boats ;<) Tom Hayden Island Time IP-320 #27 > > An inflatable dingy with a high pressure inflatable floor makes a > hell of a > good fender. Unfortunately, I know from experience! > > Bill Langlois > s/v Hope IP-35-164 Dinghys And IPs From: Charles Ouimet Received: 9/29/1998 8:13:19 AM We have to replace our aging Avon rover. THe Florida sun is really destructive in Florida and the Avon is in bad shape after just 11 years (and we keep it covered when not in use.) The inflatable also requires a hefting a large engine from the IP to the dinghy when we want to go ashore. When we get back to the dock, the dinghy must then be hoisted on deck (no dockside storage), covered and tied down which is a big pain in the butt and also in the back. So we are considering a fiberglass dinghy that is small enough to stow on deck for offshore passages, that could be left in the water along side our IP, and that would require only a small engine. The Trinka 8' looks like a reasonable choice and could fit between the dodger and the mast. Does anyone in this esteemed group have an opinion on dinghies? How big? What kind? Where to store them on deck on a club
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 24 of 62 Dinghys And IPs footed cutter (On the IP-35, the club effectively eliminates the traditional storage space between the mast and bow)? Is it really necessary to store the dinghy on deck when making an offshsore passage? I worry about this issue. Our 10' avon once levitated in strong wind and then flipped over, acting as an instant sea anchor a few miles from Cuttyhunk in Buzzard's Bay. So you can get into trouble even when you are not far from port. Getting an inflatable and stowing it on davits is not an option here in Florida because of the strong destructive UV. ANy opinions would be appreciated, Charlie O, Serenity IP-35-94 From: Robert Renes Received: 9/29/1998 10:46:49 AM I was in the market for a dink a few months ago (well it took me over a year to decide which type and size) I knew I wanted a dink that rows eassy and could be sailed but could also be powered. Due to my location, I narowed the choice to two manufacturers, the Bower out of St. Augustine, Fl and the Trinka our of Vero Beach, Fl. I visited both factories and both were about equally in quality but not all the same. Then it was the decision of the 8 ft or the 10 ft. Both makes carry both sizes. My conclution was that the 8 ft was to small (I'm 6.1) but eassier to carry on deck. The 10 ft was the best choice but would be a very tight fit on deck (I have a IP-38) and I would have to carry it on davits or tow it. I bought the 10 ft Trinka. The boat is A1 quality and made by one person (Johansen) my hull number shows that there are over 600 out there, it rows incredibly well and its a ball to sail (you can buy it with or without the sail package) a 3.5 hp moves it as fast as a 5 hp did on my avon. Its all glass and teak, they matched the gell of my faded IP or you can chose any color you want. If you want a glass dink, have a look at this one. Regards Renes O'BayBe II IP-3861 From: Al Sandman Received: 9/29/1998 11:04:10 AM Leaving the dingy in the water in Florida sounds like the beginning of a growth on the Bottom problem. I recently bought a Quick Silver inflatable with a hard bottom. It travel well behind the boat and stores inflated on the bow on its side leaning on the cabin roof & club foot. I lift both the engine and the dingy with a block setup I attach to the end of the boom, and swing the boom outboard for lifting. Actually I got the Ideas from someone else who used his Vang Blocks as the lifting Mechanism with a snatch block on the Stern end of the boom to guide the line in. Even in Florida a light reflective cover could be fitted over the dingy in its storage position to prevent UV problems. But 10 Years is not so bad for the last dingy, and considering how relative prices of dinghies have come down over the last ten years your next one will probably be cheaper per year amortized. I wanted to go the hard ding rout but my wife hates it, She never feels comfortable in a swell in the hard dingy. So I used the zodiac, or now the Quick silver almost all the time. From: Robert N. Gariepy Received: 9/30/1998 9:33:32 AM Two thoughts for you. - a hard dinghy stored on davits. you could also use a sailing dinghy which has some nice advantages - a roll up inflatable dinghy stored on davits for most of the time and then rolled up when on offshore passage as you can see, I like davits and a hard sailing dinghy regards bob gariepy banana split Dinghy's-All Purpose Dinghies From: Rowan King Received: 10/20/1998 11:54:07 AM A few years ago, I saw adverts in magazines for a dinghy called a Tinka-Tramp. They were supposed to be an inflatable dinghy that could be sailed, motored, rowed, and used as a liferaft (it had a tent that could be erected on top). Unfortunately I have no recollection of where to find a phone number or address. I'll look at my old mags to see if I can't find something. From: Brian B. Collier Received: 10/20/1998 12:31:02 PM That would be a Tinker Tramp. Tinker makes inflatables and Trinka makes hard dinghies. Tinker Website http://www.tinkers.com Trinka Website: http:www.trinka.com Brian Collier [email protected] http://www.baysailor.com http://www.islandpacket31.com http://www.stingrayharbor.com Sarah Sea Deltaville, VA IP-31 #40 From: Scott & Fran Witt Received: 10/20/1998 8:19:39 PM Rowan, I recollect that, too. I think you'll find it at www.tinkers.com Scott and Fran Witt PELORUS JACK IP-45-04 San Diego Dinghy's-Avon 3.11 Rollaway Review… From: John Hovan Received: 2/28/1999 1:11:05 AM Hello IP Owners, Here is a long winded AVON Rollaway 3.11 Review... Last year I purchased an Avon 3.11 rollup in anticipation for purchasing the mother ship in the near future. Thus, I have had an opportunity to use the Rollaway extensively at various lakes around Austin, TX over the past year. I also purchased the Yamaha 8hp engine for the boat. It will handle up to 15hp motor. When I received the inflatable, the green cover was damaged. It had a hole in it. I called Triad Marine in Texas and they immediately sent me a replacement cover. My impressions of the boat are that it is incredibly durable. The flooring looks and feels like it will last forever. The two piece oars are superb. They are lightweight and functional. The hypalon material is very high quality. I have had a few issues with the rollaway. First, I noticed a small gash in the bottom of the boat after a season of heavy use. This is probably the result of pulling over a sharp object such as a nail or piece of metal along the shore due to my negligence. However, the cut did not puncture the pontoon. All seams appear to have several layers of material. I plan on repairing the cut with a small patch. I dragged the boat over rocks on many occasions since there aren't many grassy launch facilities in the area. Our diligent park rangers rope everything off so you can't get too close to nature. This leaves only paved launch areas. Some are extremely rocky asphalt or cement. The bottom is in remarkable shape given the first year of abuse I gave it. In fact, it looks fairly new. The transom does not come with hooks for hoisting lines. I plan on installing some this year. There are substantial metal rings for towing under each side of the bow. These are attached with substantially reinforced material. One other change I plan on making is to switch out the nylon tank tie down right behind the seat. The factory installed strap is the type that must be completely undone to fasten the fuel tank to the bottom of the boat. (I'm guessing that's the purpose for this strap. I put it through the handle of the tank.) Some local stores such as REI sell the buckle type
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 25 of 62 Dinghy's-Avon 3.11 Rollaway Review… of strap for a few dollars. I think this would allow the tank to be installed very quickly. One issue with the design of the inflatable is the attach point of the rollup flooring to the transom. If the flooring is not kept somewhat square with the transom, it will begin to pull apart from the transom as the pontoons are filled. If it is partially away and the boat is used, it can come completely detached from the transom. I found out this the hard way. Thus, I now check this when setting up the boat. Also, if the flooring does pull away from the transom, some buckling occurs in the water and the only way I see to fix the issue is to pull the boat ashore, deflate, fix and re-inflate. The flooring has a kevlar type piece of cloth with a plastic straw type of material in the end of it. This fits into a track in the end of the flooring. Not the best system given my experience. However, if you make sure it is square, it is not an issue. The attach points to the kevlar piece to transom are hand type bolts though a piece of wood which holds the kevlar cloth against the transom. With some thought, there may be a way to re-engineer this in the future. Performance of the 3.11 with the 8hp is a lot of fun. It feels like a jet boat. If the waves are heavy, I do get some cavitation with the short shaft 8hp motor. Some folks have said that there are some devices to attach to the bottom of the motor to prevent cavitation. I haven't bothered to explore these. I just turn down the power. I once took my 200+ pound neighbor, 100 pounds of scuba gear and myself (150lbs) and the boat would not plane. I wonder why? It went through the water like a barge, and we didn't get anywhere fast. The beer was cold, so we didn't care. When I removed the flooring to clean the bottom of the boat, I did notice what appeared to be stitching coming out where the edges of the flooring sits against the pontoons. I asked Homer at Triad marine about this. He said that the stitching is used to hold the material together while the glue is drying when the boat is made. It has no structural significance. In fact, if pieces of the string come out of the hypalon material, it is not an issue. One word of caution, the boat will drift quite a bit in the wind. Our diligent park rangers would not let me use the motor by shore, so I rowed for 10 minutes trying to get away from shore. The wind was too overpowering and I was blown 50 ft in no time at all into a swim area. When the diligent rangers looked the other way, I started the motor and left so I didn't run into the swimmers. So, if your motor dies in high winds, be prepared! In an emergency, I would consider deflating the pontoons to show a lower profile to the wind. A handheld VHF on board may be a life saver. Also, the oars tend to come out of the oar locks when the boat is not inflated at capacity and heavy rowing is being done. So, be sure to inflate to the max if you will be rowing. One very nice feature of the 3.11 is it's stability. I can dive off the pontoon into the water without upsetting the boat too much. Even more impressive, I can get back into the boat in deep water by pulling myself up on one of the pontoons. The boat will not tip with my 150 lb body tugging on one side of it. Also, walking around on the boat is no problem. I have configured some lanyards that attach a scuba bc to the rope handholds on the sides of the boat. These lanyards are very convenient since they hold the scuba bc near the boat so that it can be removed and kept near while getting back into the boat. Don't forget to put your weight belt aboard first before removing the bc. Don't ask me how I know this. Homer, from Triad marine informed me at the Houston boat show that Zodiak has purchased the Avon company. He also said that Zodiak has unofficially said that they will be making an inflatable floor for the 3.11. This will definitely be worth looking into. The R3.11 is over 100lbs with the floor in. I cannot lift it myself very far without removing the flooring. The flooring is over 50 pounds alone. It's not something you can move quickly by yourself. Triad marine has very impressive pricing on Avon products. Ask them for their internet pricing. If you get a chance, try to talk to Homer. He's met Tristan Jones before he passed on,he is a pilot, sailor and nice guy. http://www.triadmarine.com Also, the Yamaha 8hp motor is the only motor I will ever own. It is bullet proof when the fuel flow line is connected with the arrow pointing the right way and vacuum valve on the fuel tank is open. Don't ask me how I know this. The west marine lifting strap fits perfectly on the 8hp Yamaha. It will be used in the future when lifting the motor onboard the mother ship. Overall the Rollaway 3.11 is great inflatible. It will be interesting to see what Zodiak does with this line of boats. John Hovan Austin, TX From: Tom Grace Received: 2/28/1999 10:23:49 PM John, thanks for the excellent review of the Avon 3.11. I bought one a year ago, when I got my IP, but I haven't had much opportunity to use it yet. Your comments encourage me to believe that I made a good decision when I spent the extra money to go with the Avon. I have removable davits on my boat; in open seas, I will deflate the Avon and stow her on deck, aft of the mast. When I arrive in the Bahamas next month, I would like to be able to hoist the dinghy on the davits. This brings me to my questions: are you aware of hoisting straps or other device that can be used for an Avon 3.11 which will not chafe the hypalon? Can it be removed and replaced easily? When the dinghy is up on the davits, I notice that when sailing, it has a tendency to swing, both fore and aft and side to side. How have you and others dealt with this problem? Also, have you had any experience with a cover for the Avon; if so, what do you think of it? Thanks in advance to you and to any one else who might have information on these questions. Tom Grace IP-38-175 Adventure From: John Hovan Received: 3/7/1999 2:10:09 PM Hi Thomas, Sorry for the delay in responding. Here are some answers to your questions.... I see that in the new West Marine catalog, there are now a variety of hoisting and towing straps that can be purchased for inflatables. See page 186 of their 1999 catalog. There are Universal Dinghy Lifts, towing bridle's, and Davit Lifter harnesses. They also sell a cover on page 182 of the same catalog. I believe hypalon is impervious to ultraviolet so I don't know how much benefit the cover would be. Most early failures of inflatables that I read about are caused by punctures or improper storage. (Storing wet for long periods of time. Or in high humidity areas without letting the boat breathe once in a while.) It was recommended to put the transom I bolts so that the eye was on the inside of the boat. Thus, hoisting from this setup would not chafe the transom. Be sure to chamfer the outside edges of the protruding bolts so that the hypalon is not damaged when rolled up. For the front, you can either install some hooks (gluing them on the top of the pontoon) to avoid chafe. Or, sacrificial pieces of hypalon can be glued to the pontoons so that using the factory hooks (on the bottom side of the pontoon) will not cause wear. I couldn't tell you how to prevent the swinging. I have no experience in this area. John Hovan Austin, TX Looking for an IP '31 1986 or later From: Dan Butler Received: 3/7/1999 5:59:06 PM Regarding dinghy side sway with davits, trying gluing a d-ring on the aft tube at the same height as the towing rings on both bow tubes. Then tie
3/23/2004 10:27:10 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 26 of 62 Dinghy's-Avon 3.11 Rollaway Review… these off to the stern pulpit. Lash a large fender off the top of the ladder. The dinghy then will gently roll a little from side to side with no chafe. Also, you can tie the dinghy a little higher on the lashed side so rain will drain if you position the drain aft(assuming your drain in not centered). I leave the dingy with the aft a little lower than the bow and the rain never collects to any extent. I would not do this offshore since a dinghy on davits offshore is a liability. Dan Butler IP-45-01 LA DOLCE VITA Cape Cod, MA From: Stan Stolar Received: 3/25/1999 4:35:59 PM I have one of these Avon Rollaways and found that two eye bolts in the transom is fine for lifting the stern but the two SS rings in the bow end are not designed for lifting and are likely to tear away over time. ( dealers' opinion, not mine ) What I did at the bow was to put a line under and around the whole boat and fed through the two SS rings to keep the line from sliding fore or aft. This results in an even distribution of lifting pressure around the boat rather than two points of pulling at the rings. I have then put two short lines to the lifting lines, and pulled the boat tight toward the backstays to stop swinging. This all seems to work OK. Best wishes, Stan IP-40 -- Yellow Bird Dinghy's-Avon Inflatables From: Kenneth D. Anderson Received: 2/26/1999 1:54:29 PM One situation in which you may want to consider an inflatable even if storing on davits (generally) is if extended ocean passages are planned. Davits are probably not safe places to keep dinghys on extended offshore passages. And with the limited deck space on IP's generally, an inflatable in a locker may be the best offshore storage option. Just another opinion. Ken Anderson Packet Inn 31-257 Belle Lorraine 380-25 (being built) Dinghy-Tow From: Ned & Harriet Dwyer Received: 1/5/2000 3:01:01 PM Hello to All, While looking at the advertisements in the rear of Crusing World, I ran across one for Dinghy-Tow. It looks to be an interesting approach vis-a-vis davits for a large RIB. Has anyone had any experience with this product? I would appreciate any information. Thanks, Ned Dwyer, SV Covenant, IP-380-16 From: Bob Gates Received: 12/14/2002 7:51:41 PM Is anyone familiar with this product, or have an opinion on it? On the surface, it seems a lot easier to use, and cheaper than the cost of conventional dinghy davits. If your interested, you can find them at: www.dinghy-tow.com. Thanks in advance for your advice. Bob From: Glen Read Received: 12/14/2002 11:47:41 PM One thing comes to mind. The infamous IP exhaust (mustachio) is going to keep the dingy somewhat blackened. That is unless the boat is one of the "0" series (350 etc). I towed my hard dingy at about 30 feet on vacation and it was black even at that distance because of the exhaust water splatter. Glen Read 40/62 From: Hudson.Hoen Received: 1/16/2003 10:10:12 AM Does anyone on the list have experience/opinions with the "Dinghy-Tow" device? It's the one that attaches two rods to the dinghy's transom and then lifts it up with a block and tackle attached to the backstay, so that only the bow of the dinghy remains in the water. From the testimonials on their website (www.dinghy-tow.com), owners seem very pleased with it, even towing their inflatables across the Gulf Stream and through storms. They list a few IPs on the list of users. Thanks in advance, Hudson Hoen The Belle of Virginia, IP 380-88 Tabbs Creek, near White Stone, Virginia From: Bill Langlois Received: 1/16/2003 11:46:07 AM A new Carib fell apart at the seams from the exhaust on Red Sky an IP35. Bill Langlois Hope IP35-164 From: David Thurn Received: 1/16/2003 11:58:22 AM Speaking of Red Sky, does anyone know how they are doing? David Thurn IP350-49 Promises Hammond Harbor, Lake Michigan From: Alex Bell Received: 1/16/2003 7:37:56 PM David, As of last summer, Red Sky was located on the hard in Oriental, NC with plans the crew to head for Colorado but the forrest fires might have diverted their direction. I have heard but not confirmed that they had the boat back in the water and docked at Sheraton New Bern marina in New Bern, NC. Alex Bell Kizmet IP35 New Bern, NC [email protected] wrote: > > Speaking of Red Sky, does anyone know how they are doing? > > David Thurn > IP350-49 Promises > Hammond Harbor, Lake Michigan Dinghy-Tow (goofy messages) From: Frederick G Street Received: 12/16/2002 5:41:07 PM They look like this... Fred Street Dinghy-Tow by Davron Marine Products From: Bruce Pettyjohn Received: 10/7/2001 9:02:32 AM I am looking at installing the Davron product and would like any feed back from those who are using it. According to Davron's information several IP owners have purchased the Dinghy-Tow system . You may e-mail me direct at [email protected] - thanks - Bruce Pettyjohn IP-31-157 Sea Symphony Dingy From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 27 of 62 Dingy From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/17/1999 7:55:51 PM Jaime-Butler--Robert-Charlie-Chuck Thank You One And All For Your Suggestions I/C/W The 8 Vs 10 Question Based On Your Input The 10 Is 'A Done Deal' - Now Know We Are Doing The Right Thing!! Bob And Mary Beth Ip-380 Queen B From: David Johnson Received: 4/7/2003 7:54:35 PM I HAVE JUST PURCHASED A IP31 AND AM LOOKING FOR THE PERFECT DINGY FOR THE CRUISING COUPLE. WE LIVE IN SC SO WE HAVE ALOT OF SHELLS AND OYSTER BEDS ALONG OUR SHORES. I DO NOT MIND PUTTING DAVITS ON MY BOAT OR I CAN CARRY ONE ON THE BOW.( I HAVE A SLOOP RIG). I YOUR OPINIONS,WHICH WOULD BE THE BEST. I HAVE LOOKED A T THE RIBS AND REALLY LIKE THE 9 FT MODELS. CAN THE 31 CARRY A 105# ON DAVITS. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP. DAVID From: Dave Jones Received: 4/7/2003 8:39:41 PM HI David, I have a 9 foot Caribe RIB. I love it, handles well, RATED for a 15 hp. I actually got it in a color VERY close to the IP hull color. It took a couple of week longer to get the custom color. If interested I can give a contact for the custom color. I destroyed a Zodiac in Mexico in one season. Granted I did have a 15 hp and it was rated for 8 to 10 hp. Cheers, Dave Jones IP38-149 Andante From: David Johnson Received: 4/7/2003 8:47:09 PM DAVE, PLEASE SEND ME THE COLOR INFO. I AM LOOKING AT THE CARIBE L-9 AND THE ACHILLES HB-275 (9 FT). WHAT DO YOU THINK? THANKS, DAVID From: Mike Kelley Received: 4/7/2003 9:33:48 PM David, Be sure to check out the Apex line of Ribs. We've had the A-10 Lite for 2 years now & love it. It was priced very competively, and has HUGE tubes.....a cure for that dreaded malady, "wet-Buttis." Mike Kelley IP40-78 Island Time (as of last week) :') From: Linda Amstutz Received: 4/8/2003 11:13:31 AM Dear David, You might want to check the recent research Practical Sailor has done on dinghys. Linda Amstutz MoDachaidh IP 380-87 From: Mel Stewart Received: 4/8/2003 11:26:29 AM David Youn could also take a look at the latest issue of Bluewater Sailor. They did an article on dingys. Won't be as comprhensive or critical as Practical Sailor but it was interesting. Mel IP27-80 Starsinger From: Al Butzer Received: 4/8/2003 2:32:41 PM Hi Linda: Do you recall the issue of Practical Sailor that ran the article about dinghies? I don't remember reading it. Al Butzer IP 320-30 Morning Star From: Linda Amstutz Received: 4/8/2003 3:52:57 PM Dear Al, The Buying Guide for 1999 and 2002 and the December Issue for 2000 all have assessments of inflatables. Linda Amstutz MoDachaidh IP 380-87 From: Dave Jones Received: 4/9/2003 8:30:45 PM Hi David, You can contact Rick at Tradewinds Inflatables, (714) 960-9003. I'm off on a short trip, out of town for 5 days. If you want further info you can contact me in about a week. I'm sure Rick will be able to help you. Cheers, Dave Jones IP38-149 Andante Dingy , davits and IP27 From: Jeanelle McCall Received: 6/27/2003 1:47:18 PM Would love advice/comments about dingy / davits or other dingy storage for an IP 27. We only get to sail on weekends in bay area of Texas, but have grand hopes for bigger water someday. Thanks in advance for your help. First Mate, Jeanelle -- Amélie • IP27/215 Kemah, Texas From: Fred Haskett Received: 6/28/2003 12:09:41 PM Jeanelle, I have an IP-31 on Clear Lake and my used boat came with Edson aluminum davits. These are considerably less expensive than the stainless steel and work well for my 8' Fatty Knees dinghy. Fred Haskett Moonraker IP-31 #82 -- Dingy And Oven From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/25/1999 11:27:08 AM Has anyone had experience with a Quicksilver dingy with an air floor? (We intend to row as I do not like engines.) Also, how big a cookie sheet fits in an IP-35 oven? Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 Dingy Comparisons From: Jim Metcalf Received: 3/20/2000 1:54:15 AM Would like some recommendations: Will need to purchase a dingy. Vessel has davits where the dink will be while in the Sea of Cortez and/or Caribbean. Plan on getting a Monitor wind vane later so would like a dink with the following features: Hard bottom, (want to be able to plane and haul dive gear to and from dive spots as well as transport stores) Would like, if available, a dingy that would have a hard, solid bottom but with the ability to break down and store on-board when seriously off shore. Any recommendations? James Metcalf [email protected] From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 28 of 62 Dingy Comparisons From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/21/2000 1:07:11 AM Jim, The following comment is from a friend in Nuevo Vallerta regarding their West Marine dinghy. It is the second one they've had in five years. The first one was replaced under warranty by West Marine when the transom delaminated from the tube and now this one has separated at the seam in the bow: We wouldn't ever consider another PVC dinghy. They just aren't designed for this type of weather. This one has been covered it's entire life, and has never been cleaned with anything other that plain soap and water. We've kept an Avon 310 covered on our fore deck for ten years with no problems. It even survived barnacles trying to grow in the seams without developing any leaks. (We learned the hard way never to leave the dink in the water more then about five days at a time.) However we don't have a staysail boom. What I would like to get next is an Avon R.I.B. which should, with the tubes deflated, fit under the staysail boom on your boat. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Peter O Received: 3/21/2000 7:20:31 AM In a message dated 3/21/00 1:07:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << would like a dink with the following features: Hard bottom, (want to be able to plane and haul dive gear to and from dive spots as well as transport stores). Would like, if available, a dingy that would have a hard, solid bottom but with the ability to break down and store on-board when seriously off shore. >> You should look at the Zodiac FastRoller series. These readily plane. My FR380 [12' 6] can do over 20 mph in flat water, according to the GPS, with a 15 hp engine. This boat has an inflatable bottom that becomes very firm and rigid when properly inflated. You have to see it to believe it. There are two inflatable sponsons under the hull. These are what the boat rides on when planing. Yet the whole boat rolls into a relatively small package for stowing. I would buy another in a heartbeat. PeterO From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/21/2000 7:50:25 AM Maureen Hi ''Funny Person''... Thought You Had A 380? Will The Avon Rib [Deflated]Actualy Fit Under The Hoyt Boom? Which Mod # Length? Btw, Thanks For All The Smiles Your Humor Gives Me... Great Help At Times !! Bob 380/34 From: Mike Hill Received: 3/21/2000 8:33:57 AM One option is the Zodiac 10' 2 with the three piece floor. It planes at easily and can go 20 plus mph. Drawbacks are it is heavy and difficult to set up on deck in an anchorage. Mike Mike Hill N9XA Linda Hill s/v Erin's Child IP-35 # 78 Home Port: Austin Texas Berthed at: Waterford Harbor, Kemah Texas From: Peter O Received: 3/21/2000 10:19:26 AM In a message dated 3/21/00 8:34:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << One option is the Zodiac 10' 2 with the three piece floor. It planes at easily and can go 20 plus mph. Drawbacks are it is heavy and difficult to set up on deck in an anchorage. >> From: Peter O Received: 3/21/2000 10:21:25 AM In a message dated 3/21/00 8:34:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << One option is the Zodiac 10' 2 with the three piece floor. It planes at easily and can go 20 plus mph. Drawbacks are it is heavy and difficult to set up on deck in an anchorage. >> Having had both a three piece floor on the last Zodiac and the inflatable floor on the present FR380, I would never go back to floorboards. They make the boat heavy and harder to mobilize. All you do with a FastRoller is to inflate it - no assembly required. PeterO From: Mike Hill Received: 3/21/2000 10:37:41 AM Peter: Are there any floor boards at all. Is it really stiff enough to plane well if it has an inflatable floor? We like our dinghy, but as I said it is a bear to set up on deck on a 35. Mike Mike Hill N9XA Linda Hill s/v Erin's Child IP-35 # 78 Home Port: Austin Texas Berthed at: Waterford Harbor, Kemah Texas From: Jim Metcalf Received: 3/21/2000 1:25:20 PM Have you thought about a lightweight hard dink? The Walker Bay is a great product. Ken, Not opposed to a hard dink but am concerned about being able to stow it on deck when offshore. Thoughts? James Metcalf [email protected] From: Bruce R Cucuel Received: 3/21/2000 8:14:28 PM I agree; hard dink is great...a lot of talk about being off shore ....so let's take a poll and see how many really go there and will actually use their boat to go around the world. A lot of the cruising idea is about potential....sometimes unrealized. Out to the islands off of Florida; the Florida Keys; Bahama chain. Hard dink will do it even if it doesn't stow under your Hoyt boom. Tow it; put it in davits; and carefully choose your weather windows. Need to assess what your needs are for cruising...each of us is different in how we will use our boats. Inflatables do not row and the progression is...buy an inflatable for ease of stowage, then it won't row worth a darn in any wind at all; get a bigger motor (more weight which makes it harder for a couple to manage); it still won't plane with all that power, two people and gear; swap that dink for a rigid inflatable with a 15 horse; now it won't stow at all and you have a heavy motor; finally, get a hard dink with oars, a sail, and a 3 1/2 HP motor and carry a load with a nautical tender....that is the deciding factor for me....inflatables are ugly and do not compliment my investment in an Island Packet. As my wife says, pretty counts Bruce Cucuel Blue Yonder IP-350-82 From: Joe Barnette Received: 3/22/2000 12:31:39 AM I too have been in the process of purchasing a new dingy. I talked to several people last year while in the Caribbean and the decided on a 10 foot RIB. I have chosen the Caribe C10X. They have a great reputation - seem to hold well with a lot of hard use. I picked the gray over white after talking to Suncoast Inflatable in Fort Myers. I seems to be easier to keep clean. The engine of choice seems to be the Yamaha 15. This is the engine to get if your want to be able to plane and will be traveling any distance. I ordered a Yamaha 8 because is only plan on moving short distances and will use it to explore remote areas. This engine will overcome almost any current and wind that I expect to encounter. The 15 weighs about 82 pounds as opposed to 60 for the eight. I could have saved $200 by buying from Defender after considering FL state tax and
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 29 of 62 Dingy Comparisons shipping costs. I decided to go with the local dealer. There was also a question with the seat was standard or an option with Defender. Joe Barnette Hope and Glory 38-117 From: Jim Haverkamp Received: 3/23/2000 5:46:29 AM To Those concerned, We too have the Caribe C10X and I might suggust that you consider powering with the Yamaha 9.9. The additional HP will plane this dink with approx 400# of operator and gear, the 8 may not. Jim Haverkamp POB 432 St James City, Florida 33956-0432 Pipkin IP-31-150 From: Paul Turner Received: 3/23/2000 9:38:19 AM >To Those concerned, > We too have the Caribe C10X and I might suggust that you consider >powering with the Yamaha 9.9. The additional HP will plane this dink with >approx 400# of operator and gear, the 8 may not. An additional comment - as has been pointed out before in this group - most of the well-known engines are offered both as a 9 HP and a 15 HP, the same engine, same weight, different stage of tuning. We have the Caribe 10, love it, well powered by a very dependable Mariner (Mercury) 15 HP. --Paul Turner S/V Manitou IP-40-29 [email protected] From: Joe Barnette Received: 3/23/2000 11:00:49 PM I am sure you are correct. However, it is my understanding that the 9.9 weighs the same as the 15. We gave up power to save on weight. Joe Barnette Dingy Comparisons - Inverter From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/21/2000 11:00:18 AM This seems to have been lost the first time I sent it. From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/21/2000 4:04:48 PM Maureen Not All That ''Lierate'' When It Comes To The Possibilties- Best To Check With Thr Computer Sales Person! But The2/00 Issue Of Southern Boating Has An Excellent Piece Entitled Computers At Sea''- If You Plan On Using A Laptop For Charts And Other Applixations This Is A Must Read!I N It One Fsct To Keep In Mind --A Hard Disk Of 4.1 Giga Not Mb Essential!!!!!!-Also- If You Do Not Get A Marinized Unit [Very Costly] You Should Use A Pelican Case - If For Use On Deck U Need A Min Of 200 Nitso 90 Nits Ng For Daylight !! Most Laptops Have 90! Some Excellent Websites Are Wwww.Bluewaterweb.Com-----Www.Pelican.Com-- I Have Pelican Case It Is Absolutly 'Bllet Proof From H20 And Shock! U - Cannot Figure Iut My My Computer Eats Letters As I Go Back To Insert Or Delete One ? Ergo The ''U'' Undeneath : > ) Oh Pannasonic Makes A Laptop That Can Takea Abeating Cannot Think Of The Name Tough Something Or Other Bob 380/34 Bob Dingy Comparisons/Inverter From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 3/21/2000 10:45:26 AM Thanks Bob, I, too, enjoy the humor that we occasionally see on our list. As far as a specific model of Avon with a Hoyt boom, I'm afraid I can't help you. 1. I have a 38, not a 380 (there are considerable differences) and Jim is purchasing a 38, I believe. 2. The 38 didn't have a Hoyt boom and I don't have a staysail boom at all but since my Avon 310 fits easily between the mast and the staysail stay (upside down - bow forward - fully inflated) I am assuming (there's that word) that a R.I.B. of the same length with the tubes deflated should fit under the booms that came on our 38s. BTW, I was assuming (again!) that I would be able to run a computer off my Prowatt 800 inverter. Was I wrong? The last time we went cruising I had an ancient (1988 model) Tandy laptop which really wasn't much more than a word processor that ran fine on the Prowatt. This time, however, I will be purchasing a new laptop just before we leave so I better know now if I have to buy a new inverter as well. Thanks for any education you can give me. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Bob Gariepy Received: 3/23/2000 8:17:27 AM Maureen, Most laptops have the option of plugging in to 12v dc. It is a car type adapter which plugs into a cigarette lighter adapter. this would work without the inverter, no problem bob gariepy banana split 350-60 Dingy Davit From: David Reed Received: 4/26/2002 5:37:50 PM I know the dingy davit thread has been beaten to death, but one question. Using the rachet tie down straps to secure the dingy to the stern pushpit, to what do you attach the straps to on the dingy for rigidity and strength? David Reed Andante 350-17 From: Rich Michaels Received: 4/29/2002 6:18:16 PM David, I don't have one in front of me so I'll try to explain this from memory. The strap comes in two parts, one short part has the ratchet and the other is the long strap. The long strap passes over the top of the support bar that connects the two davits and then feeds over and around the suspended dinghy. The strap is then pulled under the dinghy and under the top stern pulpit rail and then back up to the top of the dinghy where the other end of the strap is. The short piece of the tie down, that includes the ratchet device, is connected to both ends of the long strap and secured to one of the posts on the davit. Where exactly the ratcheting piece is secured to, either the davit or the stern rail kind of depends on where the metal pieces of the ratchet won't rub against the dinghy. Anyway with the straps passing over the davit stabilizer bar and around the top rail of the stern rail, the dinghy when ratcheted tight is pulled up and back to the stern of the boat and will not swing. Regards, Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 Dingy Registration Numbers From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 30 of 62 Dingy Registration Numbers From: Bill Langlois Received: 4/24/2002 12:09:14 PM I bought an outboard and now have to put numbers on my dinghy. I want something that is not permanent. I bought the plastic boards at West Marine, but they have little countersunk holes for wood screws even though they are advertised for an inflatable. (Go figure.) What works and is durable? P.S. It was a real experience explaining why I now needed to register a dinghy purchased in New York from a company now out of business for a boat in Boston to be kept in Michigan which is now in Wisconsin. The dinghy was replaced last year by the manufacturer and I have no receipts. I had to sign an affidavit stating an estimated current value. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Art Richard Received: 4/24/2002 1:45:15 PM Bill, I used the number boards and attached them to my dinghy by just tieing them on to the rope that runs around the dinghy with light nylon line. I have to replace the light nylon line every few years due to the sunlight here in Florida. I came up with a more durable solution recently, I used stainless steel shackles (screw type) to attach the boards to the rope. I had a similar problem with registration here in Florida when I finally got an outboard for the dinghy but had lost the original reciept. After much frustration with the registration people, I finally solved the problem by giving the dinghy to my son and then making up a bill of sale for it and having my son sell it back to me at a very low price. Art Richard IP-32-34 Lagniappe From: Robert Wilson Received: 4/24/2002 2:19:02 PM Bill, One two previous dinghies I have used the white board from West and then used white electrical wireties to fasten the plate between handles, on rope lines or to whatever on the boat. West also sells a package of two Suction cup looking things that have the small bungie cord included for this express purpose. My new dinghy arrived last week and I am having to go through the same....register a boat in Georgia, specify the County that the boat will be in (tax purposes), but the boat will not be in ANY county. Go Figure. Robert Wilson Gypsy Common IP-38 Atlanta From: Jaime Ramon Received: 4/24/2002 2:25:13 PM Bill, We strapped our Board with tie wraps to the lines used to hold on or pull on the dink, the ones alond the top of the tubes but we cut it up to only acomodate the registration sticker. We put the numbers on permanently. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: Ron Kemper Received: 4/24/2002 2:40:40 PM Bill - Sounds like the process I went through to register in Florida a dinghy that was made in France that I bought in Maryland with no papers. (dinghy came with the IP). Same affadavit worked for me although your dinghy's provenance is much more complex than mine. I also use the plastic boards for numbers and decal and bought a kit with four soft plastic suction cups and four short bungy cords to attach the boards to the cups. I got the kit at West Marine I think. I cemented the cups to the inflatable and the boards are removeable. So far it works fine after two years of use. Ron Kemper SEA DRAGON 31-145 Cape Coral FL > I bought an outboard and now have to put numbers on my dinghy. I want > something that is not permanent. I bought the plastic boards at West > Marine, but they have little countersunk holes for wood screws even though > they are advertised for an inflatable. (Go figure.) What works and is > durable? > > P.S. It was a real experience explaining why I now needed to register a > dinghy purchased in New York from a company now out of business for a boat > in Boston to be kept in Michigan which is now in Wisconsin. The dinghy was > replaced last year by the manufacturer and I have no receipts. I had to > sign an affidavit stating an estimated current value. > > Bill Langlois > Hope IP-35-164 From: Al Butzer Received: 4/24/2002 6:26:47 PM Bill: I use the plastic boards from West Marine on my dinghy. I drilled the holes a tiny bit larger, pushed some shock cord through and then tie the shock cord to the hand holds on both sides of the dinghy. It works for me. Al Butzer IP-320-30 Morning Star From: Bill Langlois Received: 4/25/2002 11:04:43 AM Thanks for all the ideas. I bought some shackles for attaching slugs to sails last night, and after reaming the holes in the boards, they look like they will work. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 Dingy Size From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/17/1999 10:22:11 AM I Would Be Interested In The Groups Opinion Regarding Dingy Size 8 Ft. Vs/ 10 Ft. Dink. In Either Case The Dinky Would Be Placed On Kato Davits - Obviously Size Does Matter (No Pun Intended)From A Use Point Of View- But We Are Also Concerned About The 'Look' Of A 10 Footer Hanging Off Our 380 It Just Seems To Be Very Big For The Narrow 'Tail' On The 380. For Purposes Of This Question You Can Assume A 'Hard 'Dingy. Thanks Once Again For The Benefit Of Your Experience - Your Advise Is Valued! Bob And Mary Beth Ip-380 Queen B From: Butler Smythe Received: 3/17/1999 10:38:04 AM Bob and Mary Beth, I have an 8' Trinka on our IP-35 and love it. If I had to buy another though I would opt for the 10 footer in an instant. Not only will it row, sail and tow better, but you will be less crowded inside and your narrow tail (not really so narrow) is not as much a factor as your over 13' beam. Look at all the 10' foot inflatables on 35's and below and they are just fine.... We have a 12' beam and the stern is over 8'. Yours will be even larger. Go for the 10, you won't regret it. vr, Butler Smythe From: Jaime Ramon Received: 3/17/1999 10:44:15 AM I'm currently using the AVON RIB 311 on Simpson Davits. It looks just fine (my opinion), and fits rather well. NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 31 of 62 Dingy Size From: Robert Renes Received: 3/17/1999 11:12:31 AM Dear Bob: I had the same concerns when deciding on the 8 or 10 ft Trinka. We finally decided on the 10 and glad we did. It does extend over the transom size but not over the beam. It hangs well on the davits, (we dont have Kato) and you will not need an outboard engine as it rows like a charm, and if you get the sail kit, its a blast!!! If you are a tall person (over 6 ft) and plan to carry more then just one person, the 10 should be your choice. However, do remember it will not fit on deck and must always hang on davits or be towed. Regards, Robert IP-38-61 O'Bay Be II From: Chuck Berrington Received: 3/17/1999 12:12:58 PM Bob, I purchased a 8 foot +RIB dinghy and had it on davits. I purchased the 8' so that on ocean crossings I could tie it on cabin top aft the mast. This worked fine, however doing it over again, I would purchase a 10' RIB dinghy. We found down Island that the 8' foot was a little small, for daily chores such as laundry, shopping, hauling fuel, etc. and a lot small when we had visitors fly in with luggage, etc. The larger dinghy is also dryer and many, such as the Carribe 10X, have a lockable compartment for flashlights,and miscellaneous gear. My recommendation, particularly if you are going down Island is to buy a minimum of 10' and equip it with a 15 HP OB. Chuck Berrington RelationShip IP-40-25 From: Charles Ouimet Received: 3/17/1999 2:12:02 PM We have a Trinka 8 and it holds 3 adults. I have been told that the Trinka 10 is much better for rowing and sailng though. I do not know how a 10 footer would look on the stern, but if I had davits, I would have gotten the 10 footer. She looks so sweet that I think the size would not detract from the overall appearance of the IP and dink. Charlie O, Serenity IP-35-94 From: Dan Butler Received: 3/17/1999 3:25:43 PM Hi Charlie, One quick question...does the Trinka have a cockpit drain that would allow drain while on davits? Thanks in advance. Dan Butler IP-45-01 From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/17/1999 9:18:13 PM Absolutely Correctomundo Dinghy Not Dingy- Will Dink Do It? Dingy Storage From: Simon Lock Received: 2/16/1999 3:56:42 PM This past weekend I was down in Panama City Beach. At the Bayview Marina by the PCB Marriott I were two IPs - they were either IP-37's or IP-40's. Thet went by the names of Con Brio and Carpe Diem. Both vessels had their dingy mounted on the stern standing on edge. Regrettably neither owner was available to enquire about this method of stowing the dingy. Is anybody in this august group the owner of either vessel and if so can you describe how you are holding your dingy in place? If neither owner participates does anybody know who the owners are or care to speculate how the owners were attaching their dingy to the stern? Does one maintain the dingy here when underway? and if so how can you look backwards when your vision up to the top of the bimini is obscured by dingy? Wishing you fair winds and good sailing Simon Lock IP-32 - Kichigai, Atlanta, GA [email protected] From: Marc Attaque Received: 2/16/1999 7:31:25 PM Dingy on edge, I have been using this method successfully for two years. Edson makes brackets, which fit. We tie our Avon on the boat on four points. No problems leaving it there while sailing (even in heavy seas), also my delivery captain prefers to tie it down on the foredeck for offshore work ( I guess habits). My view is not obstructed back if I sit straight up. From: Simon Lock Received: 2/16/1999 10:00:19 PM Bob G. You must be thinking of a different Carpe Diem - this one was definitely not a 350 - did not have the sugar scoop at the stern. I think the one you are thinking of is owned by some folks in Ohio or Kentucky. The one I saw at the Bayview Marina in Panama City was either the IP-37 or IP-40. Wishing you fair winds and good sailing. Simon Lock IP-32 - Kichigai, Atlanta, GA [email protected] From: Bob Garapola Received: 2/17/1999 5:17:06 AM Possible It Was Different The Name On The Palmetto Carpe Is On The Bow Port And Starboard From: Gary Drussel Received: 5/10/2003 11:54:38 PM FWIW our decision is made regarding the storage of the dingy on our IP 40. Rather than try and reinvent the wheel, our dingy will remain on the Kato Davits as it has for about 5,000 offshore miles to date. Our davits mount it very high and we have never experienced a problem. It a bad blow we always prefer running into rather than following. In my worst instances of taking water over the bow and bimini, most of the water ran down my back and into my shorts, and very little, if any went into the dingy. The davits keep it very high. We always pull the drain plug. For the Gulf crossing we will remove the little Nissan 8 hp and fuel tank and lighten the load by about 60-70 lbs. I appreciate everyones input on rerigging the stay'sl and removing the boom, however, when I look at it objectively, we can trim the stay'sl fairly well as IP rigged it and we plan to leave it as is. We may have to trim it to one side or the other while at anchor to install the new hammock at anchor! A cool drink in that situation, at a quiet anchorage is what we really desire. In the worst of all conditions we will drop the dingy, drag it upside down or rightside up, or loose it. Worse things have happened. Lets face it, our boat just not have a good place to stow a RIB on deck. I am not willing to give up my RIB for an inflatible dingy. I much prefer to have my 6 person liferaft in it's cradle on the port side of the mast, and a hanked on storm trisail on the stb'd side of the mast for extended offshore sails. I am not willing to give up this real estate just to stow my dingy. Anyway, some may agree, some may disagree, but that is life. When you look at the big picture, IP did a pretty damn good job of designing a cruising boat. I really appreciate all the input from the IP net members, your thoughts and suggestions reflect your experience. Next project, look at water makers. Cheers Gary Surrender 40/72 From: Received: 3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 32 of 62 Dingy Storage From: James Metcalf Received: 5/11/2003 3:10:51 AM "It a bad blow we always prefer running into rather than following." Gary, I think your decisions are not bad. In my opinion the danger of carrying a dingy on davits are over rated, at least the way I cruise. I very strongly agree that if it was really bad (where I won't be most of the time if I have done my job well, smile) I too would elect to heave to, pointed into the wind, instead of running with it. Heaving to lets you effectively stop and take a time out, you also are allowing the storm to travel over you instead of you running with it, staying in the storm longer. With this in mind, having the Dingy on davits is much less troublesome that having it in large following seas. You might even consider, if it was really bad, taking it off the davits, putting it on a strong double painter and filling it with water and have it trailing behind you. Being hove to it would be like a sea anchor, no windage and might even help the motion of the boat hove too. A friend of mine was telling me of how he was preparing for a super large storm once while in an anchorage. He did all the normal things then thought of the dingy. To remove the windage from it he put it on a painter, filled it full of water and left it tied to the boat. While it did eliminate the windage, he found an even better reason for doing that. The dingy, full of water actually acted like a sea anchor and prevented the vessel from sailing to and fro at anchor. He said he now will do that intentionally for just that reason if in an anchorage and preparing for a storm. I have kept this in mind as it is so simple and yet so logical once you think of it. Just another possibility. I think that much of the nay saying on many subjects comes from well meaning folks that have read it, believe it, and pass it on as gospel. In the real world I find many of us do much of the things that theoretically is not the best option but many of us end us doing it as when all factors are evaluated we have to make choices and often the choices we make are not what "the book" says we should do. But the "book" is in a perfect world and we are not. James Metcalf Morgan Lea, IP38-81 [email protected] From: George Meinke Received: 5/11/2003 11:28:12 PM I too am thinking about a hard dink & davits to replace my rollup high pressure floor Zodiac. I have no real complaints with the zodiac but you can't beach it on rocks/broken glass/etc, and it is always finding the exposed nails in the dinky dock. It seems to me that the biggest danger with a dink on davits off shore is getting a huge wave over the top filling the dink, breaking the dink and davits at the worse possible time. So - - I wonder if you could prevent this worse case senario by hanging the dink bottom side up so it can't fill. I think it would be fairly easy to remove the motor and hang it upside down while off shore. It would certainly be easier than making room for it on the deck of a 350. Opinions on this unconventional approach? George Meinke Island Star 350/07 From: Joanne Ross Received: 5/12/2003 12:01:44 PM i am not a proponent of carrying a dinghy on davits while sailing offshore. water is not your only problem. wind can also pose problems. joanne ross mach turtle ip 38 From: Carey Colwell Received: 5/12/2003 2:46:35 PM Gary/George - I just made a decision on a dinghy and went with the Avon RIB Lite 3.10 in part because it is significantly lighter than the standard RIB. I think the 3.10 is ~ 95 lbs. The bigger factor was the ability to store it in a bag down below during those infrequent (for most of us) offshore passages. It comes with a padded bag and folds to ~ sailboard size and will fit in the forward cabin which is mostly unsleepable in normal offshore conditions, but would still allow a single person to get wedged in next to it. It planes very easily with one or two - powered by a Yamaha 8-HP four-stroke and has the protection of the hard bottom. Carey and Bobbi Colwell Catspaw, 380-22 Narragansett Bay From: Paul Loschiavo Received: 5/12/2003 7:50:19 PM I have a "Boss" hard dinghy. It l;ooks like a dinghy but is made of solid fiberglass. With 2 hundred pound dogs, it's pretty neat though it's a little heavier than a conventional inflatable. It is .... bulletproof. I haven't had it in bad enough weather to be concerned about it, but having a solid dink is nice. From: David Neelon Received: 5/13/2003 9:43:25 AM George - What a cool idea, to hang the dink upside down. Might work, but to me, the more common problem with hanging the dinghy while at sea would be dragging its tail when heeled or rolling. My davits are not as high as some, and I hang the dinghy tail lower than level to facilitate draining (always leave the plug out). This means that a big following sea can sometimes reach up and grab the inflatable. This has even happened in the lower Chesapeake. While this doesn't fill the dink, it does put a lot of stress on the davit attachments. On our recent trip St Thomas to Beaufort, we could have hung the dinghy without incident, as the weather and seas were mild. In fact, Joe Barnette did leave for Florida via the Bahamas at the same time with his dinghy on his high davits, well secured, and I'm sure he had no trouble. The thing is, when you get into a blow far at sea, and having the dinghy on the davits becomes a problem, for whatever reason, you have a very difficult problem. I would not risk it. David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: Steve Weiser Received: 5/13/2003 10:26:21 AM We were towing our dink (Zodiac) once in calm water, but a gust of wind flipped it over, and it immediately dove underwater due to its inverted shape. The painter was attached to both D-rings on the front of the dink. The drag created by the dink nearly tore one of the D-rings out of its very strong attachment point, and this despite the fact that we immediately reacted and stopped the boat. Therefor I don't think using the dink as a sea anchor would work at all. The attachment points on the dink simply are not strong enough. You would likely kiss your dink goodbye, particularly in storm conditions. By the way, from my bad experience above, I learned to tow the dink much closer to the stern of EMILY....this seems to minimize the chance of wind flipping it over. Steve Weiser IP40-93 EMILY > From: "James Metcalf"
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 33 of 62 Dingy Storage telling me of how he was preparing for a super large > storm once while in an anchorage. He did all the normal things then thought > of the dingy. To remove the windage from it he put it on a painter, filled > it full of water and left it tied to the boat. While it did eliminate the > windage, he found an even better reason for doing that. The dingy, full of > water actually acted like a sea anchor and prevented the vessel from sailing > to and fro at anchor. He said he now will do that intentionally for just > that reason if in an anchorage and preparing for a storm. I have kept this > in mind as it is so simple and yet so logical once you think of it. Just > another possibility. From: James Metcalf Received: 5/13/2003 11:56:13 AM "> The drag created by the dink nearly tore one of the D-rings out of its very > strong attachment point, and this despite the fact that we immediately > reacted and stopped the boat. > > Therefor I don't think using the dink as a sea anchor would work at all. > The attachment points on the dink simply are not strong enough. You would > likely kiss your dink goodbye, particularly in storm conditions." 1. When towing a dingy you should use a bridle and not glued on attachment points near the front of the dink, also on a hard bottom dink, at least my Caribe, the towing attachment is hard bolted through the front of the bow (fiberglass). While I use this, if I would tow it for any distance I would use a bridle, pulling from the rear, well at least the main stress is from the rear. Arrange the bridle so the front of the dink it angled up, you will be surprised at how easy it is to tow this way. I used to do this when trailer sailing with a much smaller boat and never had a problem even in what was heavy weather for that size boat. Always use a secondary painter also, with not as much tension on it, that way if something happens to the main one, you have a second chance to recover the dink. 2. Yes, inverting an empty dingy would cause it to plane downward, it would act just like a diving fishing lure. By filling the dingy with water it float just under the surface and I "doubt" that you encounter the same problem you did. Might, I have never tried it but just offered it as a possible option when "shirt" hits the fan. This technique. is primarily for when you are anchored. James Metcalf [email protected] Dingy Storage IP 40 From: Gary Drussel Received: 5/6/2003 10:09:33 PM We are finally making serious plans for a Mexico/Belize trip this fall. Where have other 40 owners stowed a rigid dingy on deck. Our raft cradle is on the port side, just aft of the mast. We haave a Avon 9.3 RIB. I have always carried it high on the Kato davits, safe snug and secure, however, we would like to have it off the davits for the gulf crossing. Also, any IP owners that have made to trip to Cancun, Cozumel, Isla Majures, and Belize that would like to share you experiences, email me off line, and we can email, or better set up a phone call at your convenience. Gary Surrender email [email protected] From: Rich Michaels Received: 5/7/2003 7:09:08 AM Gary, I have always either carried it in our davits or towed it but like you I think, I'm nervous about it on long open ocean passages. Deflated it would fit athwartship behind the mast (but you've said you have your liferaft mounted there portside. Deflated it should also fit facing fore and aft and turned upside down on the starboard side. Rob Dubin told me that is where he stows his. And finally if you get rid of the staysail boom, at least for the passage, you could stow it upside down and inflated forward of the mast. Regards, Rich ______Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP40/129 Marco Island, FL [email protected] From: Gary Drussel Received: 5/7/2003 7:22:25 AM Rich, thanks for the suggestion. I failed to mention the at that location, I have an already hanked on its track a storm trisail that is kept in it bag, but ready to deploy. Re the stays'l boom removal, is there a rigging change required with the boom removed? Gary At 07:08 AM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Gary, > >I have always either carried it in our davits or towed it but like you I >think, I'm nervous about it on long open ocean passages. > >Deflated it would fit athwartship behind the mast (but you've said you have >your liferaft mounted there portside. Deflated it should also fit facing >fore and aft and turned upside down on the starboard side. Rob Dubin told >me that is where he stows his. And finally if you get rid of the staysail >boom, at least for the passage, you could stow it upside down and inflated >forward of the mast. > >Regards, >Rich > >______>Rich & Nancy Michaels >Eventyr - IP40/129 >Marco Island, FL >[email protected] > > > > > >-- >------>Just say "NO" to mediocrity and high prices. >Visit www.sailnet.com and experience the other choice. > > From: Rich Michaels Received: 5/7/2003 7:51:20 AM Gary, I've been looking at the possibility of removing the staysail boom and it appears that all you'd have to do in terms of running rigging is to get two staysail sheets. The staysail would then operate just like your headsail. It also appears that you could still get a tight sheeting angle by using the existing staysail track and a block and short line as a barberhauler. You'd have to go up to the foredeck and set this while underway but that's no big deal. If your removal of the staysail boom was temporary, just secure off all existing lines and blocks to the base of the mast. Regards, Rich ______Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP40/129 Marco Island, FL [email protected] From: Gary Drussel Received: 5/7/2003 9:30:47 AM Thanks for the insight--I'll look at it from your suggestions. Gary At 07:51 AM 5/7/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Gary, > >I've been looking at the possibility of removing the staysail boom and it >appears that all you'd have to do in terms of running rigging is to get two >staysail sheets. The staysail would then operate just like your headsail. >It also appears that you could still get a tight sheeting angle by using the >existing staysail track and a block and short line as a barberhauler. You'd >have to go up to the foredeck and set this while underway but that's no big >deal. > >If your removal of the staysail boom was temporary, just secure off all >existing lines and blocks to the base of the mast. > >Regards, >Rich > >______>Rich & Nancy Michaels >Eventyr - IP40/129 >Marco Island, FL >[email protected] > > > From: Steve Caneen Received: 5/7/2003 11:34:59 AM Gary, I'll second Rich's staysail boom suggestion. I've permanently removed the boom and my staysail is rf. When daysailing I use the staysail and
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 34 of 62 Dingy Storage IP 40 a single sheet setup. When I go offshore, I remove the single sheet setup and use 2 sheets. Offshore I fly the jib or the staysail. I only use the staysail offshore as my heavy weather headsail, so I use the jib sheet track for the staysail sheets. I carry a 9ft. rollup on the foredeck. Steve Caneen 31-246 From: Paul Jones Received: 5/7/2003 8:26:30 PM Steve, Do you use separate blocks for the staysail sheets (offshore mode) on the genoa tracks? What winches do you use to trim the staysail sheets? Paul A Jones Ad Astra IP37-16 From: Steve Caneen Received: 5/8/2003 8:35:06 AM Paul, Yes, I have two additional blocks on the forward end of the genoa tracks. I use the jib sheet winches for trim. I know the sheeting angle is a little wide but... if I was really energetic I'd mount short section of track on top of the forward end of the teak handrail to lead back to the cabin-top winches. I haven't worked out the potential loads though or inquired how the rail is attached. Steve Caneen 31-246 Dingy Thread From: Mike Hill Received: 1/25/2000 7:53:06 PM Just to continue the discussion on dinghy's, I have another question. Linda and I have a 10'6 Zodiac with the wooden floor boards and a 9 horse Johnson 2 stroke. It planes well, carries 4 passengers and has survived being towed in the Gulf when it should have been on the boat. The problem is dragging it around on the boat and on the dock. The darn thing weighs a ton (probably 90 to 100# inflated with the boards in. For ocean passages I would rather not have something hanging on davits on the back of our 35 (opinions?). We put it in the Quarter berth in it's bag and when we reach an anchorage there is nowhere big enough on the boat to put in the floor boards and inflate it. We are thinking of selling it and going to something smaller we can handle on the boat and around the dock. Any opinions on something smaller with a blow up floor and possibly a 4 horse 4 stroke? What brands? Best dealers for price etc. Thanks Mike Mike Hill KB9XX Linda Hill s/v Erin's Child IP-35 # 78 Home Port: Austin Texas Berthed at: Waterford Harbor, Kemah Texas From: Bill Langlois Received: 1/25/2000 7:59:41 PM We have a Quick Silver 9 foot (they call it an 8 foot 6 inch) dingy with a high pressure inflatable floor and it has worked out very well on davits. We do not have a motor. They sell a lot of these in Wisconsin with Mercury being a local firm and they seem to hold up if you do not over power them. With too much power, I understand that the transom comes loose, but that is true of others also. Some people have gone back to wood floors if they want enough power to plane all the time like 15 or more horsepower. Evidently, inflatable floors are not rigid enough. It is a lot less expensive than Avon, West Marine, or Zodiac especially from Post Marine in New York. You may want the bigger one with two seats. It is probably worth it. The pump that comes with it is a piece of junk. The best foot pump from West Marine works great. It has a high volume and a second high pressure outlet. From: Steve Weiser Received: 1/25/2000 11:21:42 PM Mike, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we have the inflatable floor Zodiac, and the length is, I think, 10' 6 (they give it in metrics). We are running a 5hp 4 stroke Honda on it, because that motor is easier to lift than the more powerful ones. It will plane with one person but not with two. I don't care because we don't plan to waterski behind it! By the way, I really like these Honda motors...easy to start, no mixing of oil and gas, quieter, smoother, and a much more linear power curve than the 2 strokes. The dink itself only weighs around 60 lbs. We've had this one for five years or so...it was one of the first ones built, and have had no problems with it. We do keep it covered (from the UV) now when it's hanging on our one year old davits. I've seen the newest models and they are vastly improved and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. If you want to waterski, I think they are rated for up to 15hp! Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Cynthia Garrett Received: 1/26/2000 7:51:34 AM Mike, Would that be the same dingy seen and rescued at Port O'Connor? Are salvage rights preserved in case of sale? Robert IP-31 Que Sera From: Mike Hill Received: 1/26/2000 9:10:30 AM Cynthia: Yes absolutely this is the Dinghy that got away in Port O'Conner. Once before in a storm, the day before memorial day, it decided to be towed upside down for a couple of hours. Proved to work very well as a sea anchor utilizing the now famous suction cup effect. If it survives my somewhat extended learning curve, I'll be surprised. I think salvage rights are available, but no one seems to want to cash in:-) Mike From: Kat Man Received: 1/30/2000 1:46:04 PM Linda & Mike I recently purchased from Traid a Zodiac 10' w/ a Johnson motor! My boat Grace is @ the T-Head on dock 14 @ Waterford Harbor in Kemah. We are neighbors. Let's compare notes. Mike indicated that my Zodiac would fit on the deck. It did not fit properly! I look forward to make your acquanitance! More better later. Katman Grace IP-45-5 Dingys From: Jim Metcalf Received: 3/21/2000 1:38:32 PM
3/23/2004 10:27:11 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 35 of 62 Dingys Mike Mike Hill N9XA Linda Hill s/v Erin's Child IP-35 # 78 Home Port: Austin Texas Berthed at: Waterford Harbor, Kemah Texas From: Jim Metcalf Received: 3/21/2000 6:29:39 PM Thanks James Metcalf [email protected] Dingy'S From: Albert & Helen Powell Received: 10/28/1998 3:22:16 PM I have had a Trinka for about 10 years, and now also own the Dink, an 8' version with the square bow. The Dink came with the IP-35 we just bought. Although the Dink seems more stable than the Trinka, The Trinka by far the better boat. It should however be kept in mind that the Dink is about $900 and the Trinka is about $2200. If you like the idea of rowing around an anchorage (nothing rows better than a Trinka) and getting numerous comments about what a great dink you have, and you want a boat of the highest possible quality,the Trinka is the best choice. Also, if you plan to tow the Trinka, I guarantee you will never know it is there. If you want to get from point A to point B at a reasonable cost,The Dink seems like a good boat. When all this new boat stuff settles out for us, I believe we will sell The Dink and the outboard, and stick with the Trinka and the oars. Someone else mentioned that a dark color is not the best choice for a Trinka. I agree with that. Mark Johannsen, the owner of Trinka, tried his best to talk me out of dark blue, but I would not listen. Dragging a dark hull up onto a stony beach does nothing good for the bottom, and the paint has faded since the boat sits upside down on a dingy rack. Mark said you can get a Trinka in a color to match whatever year IP you have. Albert Avalon IP-35 #89 P.S. You will not find anyone better to do business with than Mark Johannsen. > > From: Mike Hill Received: 10/28/1998 8:25:48 PM Albert: I also own an IP-35 and wonder how The Dink was carried on your boat and what sized engine it has. How will you carry the Trinka?? Mike Albert E. Powell wrote: > > I have had a Trinka for about 10 years, and now also own the Dink, an 8' > version with the square bow. The Dink came with the IP-35 we just bought. > Although the Dink seems more stable than the Trinka, The Trinka by far > the better boat. It should however be kept in mind that the Dink is > about $900 and the Trinka is about $2200. > > If you like the idea of rowing around an anchorage (nothing rows better > than a Trinka) and getting numerous comments about what a great dink you > have, and you want a boat of the highest possible quality,the Trinka is the > best choice. Also, if you plan to tow the Trinka, I guarantee you will > never know it is there. > > If you want to get from point A to point B at a reasonable cost,The > Dink seems like a good boat. When all this new boat stuff settles out > for us, I believe we will sell The Dink and the outboard, and stick with > the Trinka and the oars. > > Someone else mentioned that a dark color is not the best choice for a > Trinka. I agree with that. Mark Johannsen, the owner of Trinka, tried his > best to talk me out of dark blue, but I would not listen. Dragging a dark > hull up onto a stony beach does nothing good for the bottom, and the paint > has faded since the boat sits upside down on a dingy rack. Mark said you > can get a Trinka in a color to match whatever year IP you have. > > Albert > Avalon IP-35 #89 > > P.S. You will not find anyone better to do business with than Mark Johannsen. > > > > Dink Outfitting From: George Koffenberger Received: 2/6/2000 9:10:23 AM I am outfitting a dink and would appreciate the groups wisdom on the following; Bags or boxes for gear, under seat, etc Best running light makes / configurations Best anchor types / storage strategy - Mostly Jersey mud/muck - don't wont holes in her What weight motor is practical before getting into a crane What life jacket strategies work best, bags of type II's, type III's or inflatable waist packs Best way to affix numbers, boards, glue on - what about the state sticker(s) George Koffenberger 'Luff Affair' IP-27-84 From: Tom Grace Received: 2/6/2000 11:25:30 AM George, one thing that I would recommend you NOT buy is the under the seat bench zippered compartment for stowage. I bought it at West Marine, when I purchased my Avon roll-up. I thought it would be a great place to stow camera, towel, and other things you didn't want to step or sit on and did want to stay dry during a ride in the dink. I forget exactly what they call it, but it wraps around the bench seat, and velcros so that the seat is cushioned and the zippered compartment hangs under the seat. I is not waterproof. In fact, it constantly accumulates water, and is virtually worthless for keeping anything that you do not want sitting in water. Tom Grace IP-38-175 Adventure From: Steve Weiser Received: 2/6/2000 2:53:30 PM George...a couple of thoughts: we tried one of those aftermarket bow bags on our dink and it didn't last long because people tended to step on it when entering/exiting the dink. We take our regular SOSPenders when in the dink. We have a vinyl covered cable we use to padlock the dink to wherever we dock, and we pass the cable through the D-rings on the SOSpenders and leave them on the dink when ashore. I'm frustrated with the state numbers and eagerly await other ideas on that one! We have a 4-cycle 5hp Honda and recommend it highly. Of course it weighs a bit more than a 2-cycle 5hp, but even so I think it weighs around 65lbs from memory. For me, that is too much for my back, so we do have a motor hoist on the stern, and it's a great thing. Honda has come out with a 2hp , 4-cycle engine which looks interesting and would be light. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Ed & Ona DeChant Received: 2/6/2000 3:33:15 PM what kind of motor hoist do you have. Any others who would like to make recommendations I would be happy to receive them. We are considering a motor hoist this year as the 6 hp is to heavy to lift. ed dechant IP-38-40 From: Fulton Williams Received: 2/6/2000 6:09:39 PM Can you please tell me what brand of motor hoist you went with. I also have the 5hp Honda and it is to much without a hoist. F. Williams Diversity IP-32 hull 70 From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 36 of 62 Dink Outfitting From: Paul Casey Received: 2/6/2000 7:05:47 PM GEORGE, I USE A NET TYPE BAG THAT I TIE UNDER THE SEAT FOR LIFE VEST STORAGE AND USE A WATERPROOF BAG FOR MORE IMPORTANT ITEMS.THE BAG IS SOLD AS A SNORKLE GEAR BAG AND ALLOWS EVERYTHING IN IT TO DRY OUT . GOOD LUCK PAUL IP-37-12 From: Dave Bowler Received: 2/6/2000 9:41:49 PM After dropping my Johnson 6HP into the deep (thank goodness, I had a safety line attached to the motor, but I also went for a swim), I have taken a loop of line over the end of the boom hooked the boomvang to the loop and lower it to the dinghy. This, of course, means the outboard is on the side of the boat and exposed to piling encounters when docking. Still thinking about what I want to do long term. I'd like to keep the stern free of as much stuff as I can. Currently our state sticker is in a wad because it came off when we deflated the dink. Dave Bowler IP- 320-05 Sunday Morning Ponte Vedra Beach, Fl. From: Peyton & Ruth Perkins Received: 2/7/2000 7:20:04 PM If considering te Honda 2hp, be sure to get the one with the centrifical clutch rather than the un-clutched version...it starts and you are away, ready or not! For me, that is too much for my back, so we >do have a motor hoist on the stern, and it's a great thing. Honda has >come out with a 2hp , 4-cycle engine which looks interesting and would >be light. > > Peyton & Ruth Perkins [email protected] Éowyn IP- 350-56 Nanaimo, Vancouver Island BC and Albany/Crescent Lake OR From: Jaime Ramon Received: 2/7/2000 8:10:41 PM George, Regarding the numbering, we used the paint on kits sold at west and it's held on for about five years. The registration stickers are another story. We use to stick them on the inside transom until we got hazzled by the authorities. Now we put it on a small hard plastic board, actually a pice we had for temporary reg. numbers, and tie strap it on the lines by the numbers. For an anchor we use a small folding umbrela type with about 100 ft of quater inch line. Regarding bags we are still using the gallon zip lock in a nap sack. Hope this helps. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: Bruce Gregory Received: 2/7/2000 8:55:00 PM To All- I had the fortune of bartering with a fellow owner, some programming for a Garhauer Outboard Davit with triple blocks and removable mast. I can honestly say that it is now and has been a pleasure to lower and raise my 6HP Merc from the rail bracket to the inflatable and back. The included double braid line is sixty feet so allows for a nine foot plus lift, more than IP owners would ever use at the stern rail. The stainless parts are A1 including the well designed open triple blocks. New they are $199 from the Garhauer factory, I include the URL of page 25 of their color catalog where the LD 6-1 Davit is located, I recommend it highly. http://garhauermarine.com/p25.html Regards, _/)Bruce Gregory _/)IP- 32-84 Morning°Star From: Richard V. Michaels Received: 2/8/2000 1:51:09 AM I second the opinion of Tom Grace on the worthlessness of the West Marine under-seat storage pouch for the dingy. The only purpose it serves is to catch water. Registration numbers that are glued on are the best. Just follow the directions carefully and keep cleaning yours hands often. Don't sniff the glue unless you really don't care how or where the letters & numbers end up! The folding anchors that are advertised for dinghies look nice and practical but doesn't hold the dinghy worth shirt unless you can set them by hand. I also think they're grappling hook design is dangerous to other people who are wading ashore. I stepped barefoot unto someone's half buried mini-danforth style once. It hurt like hell and in my pain induced rage I was really tempted to set their dinghy adrift. I like and personally use the plastic coated mushroom style. Suction cup running lights always fall off unless glued on, (which I won't do.) Save your money and use a flash light! Good oars of the proper length are a smart investment. Protect the bottom of the dinghy with something if you plan to beach her. If you're always going to use a dinghy dock it doesn't matter. If you have a rigid dingy get two sets of oar locks so you can row from either the center seat or the forward seat position. I you have a rigid dingy make sure it has enough flotation foam or a sealed camber so it won't sink. Also on rigid dinghies make sure you have a good rub rail/fender arrangement so you don't scuff the main ship. Fiberglass seats will deteriorate in the sun causing splinters (Ouch!) or outright structural failure (Oops, you okay?) Having a self-draining mechanism on the dinghy is very helpful A canvas bag mounted on the inside of the dinghy somewhere that holds a flash light, reef runner shoes, extra lashing line, cable lock, float toy for the dog, etc. is nice to keep things out from under foot. Hand pump for bailing is far superior to anything else. Need a method/place to secure them in the dinghy and out of harms way when boarding. Get a long locking cable, at least 15 feet or more for those public dinghy docks. Get a tiller extender for the Outboard if you plan on riding alone often in the dinghy and want it to plane. In a RIB, the Type II life jackets (rectangular plastic coated closed cell foam types as used on most harbor cruise boats) stack neatly under the center seat and can be held nicely in place with straps or light line. In a RIB, if a forward molded locker is an option - Get It! On an inflatable have towing rings installed on each side of the bow. Using a towing bridle versus a single line painter will keep the dinghy from walking back and forth while being towed. Install lifting rings and have made or make yourself a custom fitted lifting bridle so you can easily bring the dinghy up on deck using a spare halyard. I prefer a three point lifting arrangement with two rings at the stern and one ring on or near the floor up toward the bow. After raising the dinghy over the lifeline and lowering it to a temporary resting spot I lower the halyard enough so that I can release one of the aft bridle connections. Raising the halyard again lifts the dinghy on its side and I can then maneuver it into place upside down on the cabin top. One requirement I have for the dinghy is that I, at 230 lbs., can use the very edge of the bow as a step up and onto docks. The dinghy must have enough counter balance and buoyancy to allow this. Put some metal protection over the cap of the transom. When rowing out a second anchor, lowering it, and setting it by hand you'll save your wood transom from the abrasion of the anchor chain. Hope these opinions/ideas help. Regards, Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 From: Received: 3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 37 of 62 Dink Outfitting From: Richard V. Michaels Received: 2/8/2000 1:52:05 AM We have the Forespar and use it on a 15hp Johnson. Sets up in minutes and works great! We do have to collapse the Bimini while the procedure is in process. I have used it alone but with two people the job is done in no time at all. A motor lift makes the job so easy and safe that I think one should be used no matter what size engine you have. Single-handedly lifting even 30 pounds above your head while standing in a pitching dinghy is a prescription for a problem. Regards, Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 Dink Outfitting-outboard hoist From: Bruce Gregory Received: 2/8/2000 7:38:00 AM William- The base of the Garhauer hoist consists of a two and a half inch diameter stainless steel plate with a two inch delrin ball attached. The plate is fastened to the teak rail with three screws. The rail connection point is via a custom rail clamp with a swivel mounted sleeve attached, this sleeve is lined with delrin or something similar I believe so that with it and the ball below you are able to swivel the mast effortlessly. To assemble the hoist the mast is passed through the rail sleeve and down and over the delrin ball on the base. This is really a nice bit of engineering. Regards, _/)Bruce Gregory _/)IP-32-84 Morning°Star Dinks From: Tom Bombadil Received: 4/16/2003 3:04:01 AM I have to ask the inevitable question....for my 380 what do people recommend for a dink.....the RIBS sound and look great but I can't see where to put it on the boat and would prefer not to put davits on...... the HPF inflatables seem the most ideal but I am concerned about durability and handling under power....the wood floor inflatables seem hard to put together.....so ...... ? Bernard Lemke From: David Neelon Received: 4/16/2003 12:46:04 PM The High Pressure Floor Zodiac works well enough for me. I need from time to time to carry it in the bag deflated. It seems durable enough so far. I'm careful around rocks and coral, and I don't keep it rock hard, thinking that maybe if it's just a little softer it might give a little against a sharp object. It handles fine under power at low speeds, and it will even plane with the 8hp Yamaha, but that gets scary. It feels like that high frequency vibration you get from the airplane's landing gear just before it leaves the ground. David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: George Meinke Received: 4/17/2003 6:10:09 PM I too have a Zodiac with a high pressure floor. It is compact and I enjoy being able to store it in a bag. Works well and I have holed it twice. Each time a small hole that was easy to fix. However, I hate having to worry about rocks, glass, coral, and the sharp stuff on pilings. So I am beginning to look at a hard dinghy. It also seems like it would be fun to sail around an anchorage in the evening. Of course I have to figure out a place store it or hang it on davits. Does anyone on the list have experience with the 8 foot Fatty Knees dink with the sailing kit? Or any others? Thanks George Meinke Island Star 350-07 > The High Pressure Floor Zodiac works well enough for me. I need from time > to time to carry it in the bag deflated. It seems durable enough so far. > I'm careful around rocks and coral, and I don't keep it rock hard, thinking > that maybe if it's just a little softer it might give a little against a > sharp object. It handles fine under power at low speeds, and it will even > plane with the 8hp Yamaha, but that gets scary. It feels like that high > frequency vibration you get from the airplane's landing gear just before it > leaves the ground. > David Neelon > Unity > 350-04 > > > > -- > ------> SailNet gives you a choice! > > Check out the only retailer exclusively serving sailors. > > Visit www.sailnet.com and see how we're different. > > From: Richard Power Received: 4/18/2003 6:58:02 PM In article <012c01c303e6$444b8ff0$0202a8c0@DJJM2S01>, Tom Bombadil
3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 38 of 62 Dinks ______MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From: Richard Power Received: 4/21/2003 6:34:04 PM In article
3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 39 of 62 Entering Dinghy From Boat From: Arnold & Leslie Sucher Received: 6/22/1998 9:10:56 PM On IP-40. Entering dinghy. The dinghy is brought to the opening gate on starboard or port side in order to board. Climbing back onto the boat from the dinghy requires a long step up or some acrobatics. I am looking for a step or ladder that can hang over the side to use as a foothold upon re-entering the boat. Edson makes a very nice step, except that the rub-rail interfares with its use. Does anyone have a simple solution to this reboarding question? Thank you. Arnold Sucher IP-40/110 From: Mike Bono Received: 6/23/1998 10:34:12 AM [email protected] >On IP-40. Entering dinghy. The dinghy is brought to the opening gate >on starboard or port side in order to board. Climbing back onto the >boat from the dinghy requires a long step up or some acrobatics. I am >looking for a step or ladder that can hang over the side to use as a >foothold upon re-entering the boat. Edson makes a very nice step, >except that the rub-rail interfares with its use. Does anyone have a >simple solution to this reboarding question? Thank you. >Arnold Sucher IP-40/110 > > From: Paul Turner Received: 6/23/1998 3:36:23 PM > Edson makes a very nice step We have the Edson step (pricey!) and it works very well both at the gate and off the bow (when bow-in at short finger piers) - we don't have the rub rail, but I would expect that the step could be used above, below or astraddle. Paul Turner S/V Manitou IP-40-29 From: Bonnie Fricchione Received: 6/23/1998 7:03:12 PM Arnold: We picked up a step at Inflatable Experts in Portsmouth, RI. It is a rigid step completely enclosed in soft, probably nylon, webbing. Ropes on either side of the step are used to tie it to the stanchions at the gate, so the height is adjustable. This seems to work well and is easy to stow. The cost is around $20. Bonnie Time Bandit IP-45-029 From: Bruce Gregory Received: 6/23/1998 9:21:00 PM Arnold- We never really thought about it being anything other than a step to get into the dinghy from the water. I purchased the same step from Inflatable Experts and Bonnie is right, it would probably do nicely, going from dinghy to boat, we usually board from the aft ladder which can be a chore at times. -Bruce & Loretta Gregory, Piermont, NY, IP-32-84, Morning Star > From: Gay Giles Received: 6/24/1998 11:11:18 AM Arnold, Do you have any idea how this compares in utility with the Edison Step? I was planning to buy the Edison Step, but as stated earlier, it is a bit pricey. How does one get hold of this company from the West Coast? Thanks for the help. Gay Mr. Gruff, 35-126 From: Gay Giles Received: 6/24/1998 12:30:29 PM Bonnie, I am sorry, I meant to address the last note to you regarding the step and I mistakenly wrote Arnold. Anyway could you please give more information on the step and where to get it? Thanks, Gay Mr. Gruff, 35-126 From: Bonnie Fricchione Received: 6/24/1998 10:02:26 PM Gay: Again, the step is a rigid 'board' about 2 feet wide inside yellow colored woven fabric with rope coming out of either end that allows you to secure it to the stancions. Ask for Bob at Inflatable Experts. The step is small enough that he should be able to ship anywhere. Their address is: Inflatable Experts 200 High Point Avenue B6 Portsmouth, RI 02871 Phone: 401-682-2244 Fax: 401-682-1632 Bonnie Time Bandit IP-45-029 From: Gay Giles Received: 6/25/1998 1:58:40 PM Bonnie, Thanks for the help. I will give him a call. We have been looking for something like that but thought that the Edison was a bit pricey. It is a long step for me from the dock to the boat and a set of steps os too cumbersom for our dock. Thanks again. Gay Mr. Gruff, 35-126 Hard Vs Inflatable Dingys From: Jim Metcalf Received: 3/22/2000 2:08:42 AM Has anyone out there had experience using a hard dingy in a diving capacity? I have used inflatables and can enter/exit but wonder how stable a hard dink would be for this application, especially re-entry into the boat from the water. My instincts lead me to believe that it would be difficult but would like to hear from others who have actually done it. James Metcalf [email protected] From: Dan Garrett Received: 3/22/2000 6:45:09 AM We often use hard dinks for diving when chartering and your instincts are correct, but the problem can be overcome with a little planning. We find it easiest to enter the dink at the oarlock using a rope dink ladder while your dive buddy provides ballast (from in or out of the water) at the oarlock. While reentering we float our BCs next to the dink and then lift them aboard once both of us are out of the water. That said, having used both hard and inflatable, I prefer the added stability of the inflatable. From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/22/2000 7:42:11 AM Jim Metcalf We Have A Trinka 10 And Whilea Great Dinghy And Of Very High Quality It Is Definatly Not Appropriate I/C/W Diving--But If Your Motor Goes You Can Easily Make 12 To 15 Ft. W/ Each Pullof The Oars!Stay W/A Soft Boat For Diving!--Or If You Want To Swim From It! Bob 380/34 Group--Anyone Out There In Cyber World --Why Does My Computer ''Eats'' The Letter Following The Letter I Add Or Delete From A Word????????????? From: Jim Metcalf Received: 3/22/2000 9:31:18 AM Thanks, Choices, choices, choices, why can't life be more simple with one best answer/choice for all situations, smile? I like the idea of a hard dink for the ability to row and sail, the inflatable for diving and ease of storage ...... Guess I just need a 100 foot sailboat on which I can have both,
3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 40 of 62 Hard Vs Inflatable Dingys smile. Again, thank you all, I have a lot to think about, fortunately the purchase of a dink is not in the same league as the boat herself. Jim Metcalf [email protected] From: John Caywood Received: 3/22/2000 10:23:54 AM Let me sound a different note here, one which is unique to me as far as I know. You can qualify my comments by noting that I sail on lake Texoma in my O'Day (big lake and small boat not blue water or IP by any stretch) and am a wannabe blue water IP-320 man. We have two sea kayaks we pull behind or tie aboard and they are an absolute delight for running to the dock or beach, swimming, exercising, general messing about, etc. It is amazing how seaworthy and easy to paddle and fast they are, even for over middle age and bit overweight sailors, and how much absolute fun. Only trouble they have ever given me was before I began closing the seat area with a tough plastic cover when towing - I looked back one stormy night when things felt wrong and one of the kayaks was following along about 2 feet under water. She had swamped and sunk but was still coming along. I let her alone until I reached my cove and dropped anchor, pulled her up and dumped out the water. If I ever do get my 320 I can't imagine leaving the kayaks behind. Getting off the boat for a sprint gives cruising (lake cruising at least) a whole new dimension. They are so simple and lovely to look at and easy to stow on deck. Wife and I race each other and really like each having our own craft - hers is red and mine yellow. (Oh yes, do stow a spare paddle in each kayak. Getting back to sailboat home with hand paddling can be done but takes ever so much longer, and it is embarrassing when wife has to come to the rescue.) From: Bob Garapola Received: 3/22/2000 11:51:29 AM Art Many Thanks Ia M An Old Dog And The Tricks Get More Difficult To Learn : > ) Bob Hauling A Dinghy (Trinka) On Deck From: Charles Ouimet Received: 2/8/1999 9:55:30 AM We hauled our Trinka 8 dinghy on deck yesterday and it fit nicely between the dodger and the staysail traveler on the IP-35. I wanted to try doing this in calm weather to see what problems I would run into. But it was a real chore getting it on deck and it will be a chore launching it. I cranked it upon the main halyard while two crew wrestled it aboard. The dinghy weighs about 90 lbs and it was very tough cranking, especially since the main halyard was well off center as it lead to the dinghy in the water. Has anyone worked out a method for lifting or launching a hard dinghy from an IP (other than davits- which now look like a very attractive option to me)? Many thanks, Charlie O, Serenity IP-35-94 From: Robert N Gariepy Received: 2/8/1999 12:27:56 PM You could try using the boom with a block and tackle on it to lift the dingy (use a bridle to hold it flat while lifting). Use the main halyard to the same point on the boom to handle the weight and swing it in. A better alternative is davits on the back regards bob gariepy, banana split IP-350-60 From: Jim Metcalf Received: 2/8/1999 12:43:41 PM Being a singlehanded type sailor I needed a method of lifting myself up the mast with no assistance. I made up a purchase system of two double blocks (one with a becket) and 250 ft of 3/8 inch line. With that, (a 4-1 purchase) I can attach one end to the main halyard, raise it to the top of the mast and pull myself up. Your 90lb would be nothing plus you can use this for many other uses. (Remember, a good rule of thumb is to attempt to have several uses for anything that you put on board). You can use it to assist in lifting and pulling in a number of situations. The working load is in excess of the line strength of the 3/8 line, this obviously is dependant on the level of blocks you use. I think the total cost involved was around $150 for mine with the working load of the blocks around 1600 lbs. Jim From: Spencer Gulick Received: 2/9/1999 7:44:04 PM Charlie, I have a Trinka 8 and am also looking for the best deck storage. I had to lower the staysail boom to the deck and lash it, which did give me room enough on the foredeck - not a very satisfactory arrangement. While my wife guided the dinghy with a line to the next dock, I then hoisted the Trinka on the staysail halyard, using my whisker pole as a sort of crane. It seemed like a good idea to me ( Sally didn't like it), but I got a wrap on the winch and had to call for HELP. We were doing this for winter storage and never sailed with it there. I can't understand how you put yours between the dodger and staysail traveler. I have a mainsheet traveler, boom vang and mast in that location and can't, for the life of me see any place for my dinghy. Did you hit the wrong key, or am I missing something? Spence Gulick IP-35 Fayth II From: Charles Ouimet Received: 2/15/1999 11:52:37 AM HI Spence. Perhaps the Trinka fit because I let the stern sit over (aft of) the starboard edge of the mainsheet traveler a little bit. This would only become a problem if I needed to let the traveler all the way to windward, which I have never had to do. I had deliberately placed the dinghy over the traveler because it seemed to lock the dinghy in place, stopping it from sliding foward. The bow is just behind the staysail traveler. Didn't play with it much because it was raining, squally, cold and dark and I was coming down with the flu. I will see this weekend whether I have room to move the nose forward to get the stern entirely clear of the traveler. The dink is way over on the starboard side of the cabin top, not on the centerline. Hope this helps, Charlie O, Serenity IP-35-94 Inflatable Floor Dinghies From: Rich Michaels Received: 8/21/2002 10:11:20 AM Does anyone have experience and opinion regarding the inflatable floor dinghies by Zodiac and West Marine that they could share? How do they handle? Pros/Cons etc. I'm particularly interested in the new High Pressure Speedster listed on page 241 of the West Marine 2002 catalog because it says it will handle up to a 20hp engine. Regards, Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 From: Jim Dillon Received: 8/21/2002 11:11:25 AM I have a 10' zodiak which originally had an inflatable floor. The floor makes the boat easy to carry around but I found the floor to be a little
3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 41 of 62 Inflatable Floor Dinghies unstable to stand on etc. I lost the floor last fall and have since replaced it with a rigid one.(Primarily because the replacement cost was 1/2 that of the inflatable floor). I find the performance of the boat to be much better and the footing more stable. I don't worry about the weight because the boat is up on davits. Hope that helps Jim Dillon IP-320-38 MOONGATE Marblehead From: David Neelon Received: 8/21/2002 12:32:27 PM Rich - We carry a 10' Zodiac with inflatable floor and a 5hp Honda fourstroke, plus gas and stuff on Kato davits with 4:1 tackle. No weight problems. The inflatable floor enables fairly compact bag storage inside cabin when offshore. After searching for an electric pump to reach the higher pressure, I gave up and used the foot pump, which turns out to work very well for the purpose. If you want it really hard, though, inflation with a compressor (and a trustworthy pressure guage) would be more satisfactory. The floor is not as rigid as wood or aluminum, but it is firm and stable enough for motoring, and even for rowing with one person aboard. A bit mushy with 3 adults, but what inflatable rows well under that weight? We do not expect to want the dinghy to plane, so we use the 5hp, which is quite adequate. I doubt the inflatable floor would plane as well as a hard floor, given equal hp engine. With 20 hp, however, I'm sure you could make it plane very well. I'm not familiar with the West Marine offering. David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: Hudson Hoen Received: 8/21/2002 5:14:07 PM Rich, I don't know about the Zodiac or West Marine version, but I just bought a Severn BoatUS 10' inflatable floor boat with a 10HP Nissan. It planes nicely with two (haven't tried it with more). The floor flexes a bit, but does fine. Hudson 380-88 The Belle of Virginia From: Jim Metcalf Received: 8/22/2002 12:16:57 AM > Does anyone have experience and opinion regarding the inflatable floor > dinghies by Zodiac and West Marine that they could share? How do they > handle? Pros/Cons etc. I'm particularly interested in the new High > Pressure Speedster listed on page 241 of the West Marine 2002 catalog > because it says it will handle up to a 20hp engine. Rich, Hate to be negative but everything I have heard from many cruisers is that since Avon and Zodiac merged, their quality is in the sink. The factory response is great, they are very good at repairing the products but when you are away from the States returning an item is hard and why have it fail only to return it for repair. Avon used to be the standard and many swear by them but if you check I think you will find they have the old Avon's. This is only my opinion but it is based upon a bunch of folks that have them and purchased them after the companies merged. This does not address your primary issue of specific performance but I would think the general quality issue overrides the specific model performance, (if you think this opinion has validity, think twice on any Avon or Zodiac). James Metcalf [email protected] From: Dick Keith Received: 8/22/2002 5:52:50 PM We bought a 9'4 inflatable floor dinghy because of the light weight while we were moving our IP by water from Lake Michigan to the east coast via Geirgian BAy,Trent Severn Erie, Hudson route and its 72 locks. Used it with a Nissan 5 HP 4 stroke. Planed with one but not two. Had an arch built in Pompano Beach but kept the Zodiac for our first trip to the Bahamas which was a big mistake. First the quality of the Zodiac was poor in my estimation. The PVC didn't hold up well, the high pressure floor didn't hold pressure for long, the tubes have started to leak slowly, the valves don't seem great, you must be careful about how you treat the floor and watch things like rocks, bits of coral, and fish fins. After 2 years we have 5 patches in various places. The oar locks ( I rowed while fishing) are absolutely the worst design I have ever seen. The small plastic pins and the lip that holds them in bends with slight pressure, then deform and the oars pull out making rowing in any wind or current impossible. I have written Zodiac about the problem of trying to get replacement oarlocks ( the West Marine version of the boat uses the same pin system but they have given up trying to keep the oarlocks due to the numerous complaints...they told me to go to Zodiac directly)..no luck or response so far. The boat is very wet in any kind of a chop, but this may be true of all dinghies in the 9' range though poeple in the 9' RIBS seemed better off. Also due to the low weight you must be careful if towing the dinghy ( we always had the engine on the rail if we were towing the dinghy short distances), as we had ours flip twice in strong winds on the ICW. These are my opinions and others my have better experiences. The low weight is great if you are going to man handle the dinghy up and down alot but consider the other requirments carefully. We have just bought a used RIB and wouldn't go back to the Bahamas with the inflatable floor. Dick Keith IP-35 Alibi From: Don Ringsmuth Received: 8/22/2002 6:23:32 PM I took a Zodiac 310 with me to the Caribbean lasty winter and used it every day for 7 months with a 8 hp Yamaha. It weighs under 70 lbs. I am happy with its construction and durability and would buy one again for the needs I had--lightweight, yet able to plain with man and wife. Since the boat you're looking at weighs over 100 lbs and you are thinking about a 20 hp, our needs are different. Nearly every dinghy I saw in the Caribbean of the size your looking at was a RIB and I would have bought one of those if I didn't need to cart the thing north and south or if there was room to store a rib on deck (there is not on an IP-40). While the high pressure floor is remarkably stiff, it takes a lot of pumping--more than the rest of the boart. My boat is also a little squirrelly on plane with just one person. RIBS don't seem tro have this problem and plane better with weight. Ribs pound less in a seaway and you can stand in them to keep a little drier. My advice would be to get a RIB unless you need a boat you can roll up. From: Mark Nave Received: 8/23/2002 12:41:13 AM I bought a 13' Achilles; it was as small as I could stand for diving, and as large as I could stand to keep on-board. Achilles is hands-down the best manufacturer of Hypalon inflatibles. based on my research. Based on a lot of experience with divers, PVC boats are highly preferable! Since I love spearfishing, I opted for the aluminum/wood flooring. It is light, strong, and everything-resistant. This also allows for a v-bottom hull, which is great for waves and handling. The obvious down-side is the weight of 250 lbs; clearly, you can't have everything! Mark From: Mark Nave Received: 8/23/2002 12:50:47 AM Error in editing.PVC are highly UNDESIRABLE based on poor UV resistance and poor abrasion resistance. Mark
3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 42 of 62 INFLATABLE KAYAK From: Herb Kuschner Received: 12/15/2003 1:24:00 PM Does anyone own a Sea Eagle inflatable kayak. I clipped out a Christmas ad for $229 for a 2 person inflatable kayak. Since we hate rowing our inflatable dinghy (which we like using under outboard) my wife and I have been talking about getting a kayak. The ad price is about half of what we see inflatable kayaks in the catalogs. My question, is the Sea Eagle inflatable kayak any good. Herb Kuschner Fascinating Rhythm IP 38 - 38 From: Michael Trautman Received: 12/16/2003 7:40:43 AM I STRONGLY recommend you don't waste money on anything less than a Stearns. You can buy one on Sailnet for less than $300. They are very well made and paddle very nicely. They are comfortable, relatively stable, and track better than any of the cheap PVC models. You'll usually see ours tied to the lifelines on the port side of Island Princess. We like ours so well, we're thinking of buying another so we can both paddle around at the same time. Mike Trautman s/v Island Princess From: Herb Kuschner Received: 12/16/2003 10:28:37 AM Thanks for your advice. I am now looking at their website Herb Kuschner Fascinating Rhythm 38 #38 From: William Shea Received: 12/16/2003 1:22:10 PM Herb- After throwing away #1, and not being pleased with #2 (gave it to kids; they gave it back,) #3 inflatable Kayak was a Sterns. Going on its fourth season- First in Florida, remainder in rocky shores of Maine. VERY pleased with it... Bill Shea renascent 32-117 From: Peyton Perkins Received: 12/21/2003 7:34:32 PM I would like to also endorse the inflatable kayaks by Advanced Elements at http://www.advancedelements.com; I feel these boats are superior to the Sterns boats and a better overall value. If anyone wants more information about these, contact me off line. Regards, Peyton Perkins William Shea writes: > Herb- > > After throwing away #1, and not being pleased with #2 > (gave it to kids; they gave it back,) #3 inflatable > Kayak was a Sterns. Going on its fourth season- First > in Florida, remainder in rocky shores of Maine. > > VERY pleased with it... > > Bill Shea > renascent 32-117 > > ______> Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > -- > ------> SailNet is small, focused friendly and proud of it. > Visit www.sailnet.com to see how that difference pays for you. > > From: Scott Campbell Received: 12/22/2003 1:16:52 PM While not inflatable, as a folding boat one can not beat the feathercraft folding kayaks. a bit pricey, but quality boats. if shopping you usually can find used ones in good shape. I have a K1 fits in forward cabin locker with sail rig. http://www.feathercraft.com/ Scott Campbell Long Shot IP380-97 packeteer350 wrote: > I would like to also endorse the inflatable kayaks by Advanced Elements at > http://www.advancedelements.com; I feel these boats are superior to the > Sterns boats and a better overall value. If anyone wants more information > about these, contact me off line. > > Regards, > > Peyton Perkins > > William Shea writes: > > > Herb- > > > > After throwing away #1, and not being pleased with #2 > > (gave it to kids; they gave it back,) #3 inflatable > > Kayak was a Sterns. Going on its fourth season- First > > in Florida, remainder in rocky shores of Maine. > > > > VERY pleased with it... > > > > Bill Shea > > renascent 32-117 > > > > ______> > Do you Yahoo!? > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > -- > > ------> > SailNet is small, focused friendly and proud of it. > > Visit www.sailnet.com to see how that difference pays for you. > > > > Inflatable Lifejackets From: Simon Lock Received: 5/10/2000 5:14:41 PM Bill: I can understand your caution - as of last Sunday I know my life jacket works!! I had it in its bag on top of a dock cart and it fell off and into the water. Wthin 10 seconds the lifejacket inflated within the bag - it was so rock hard because of the pressure that it took 3 of us to get the bag openned up and the jacket extracted and that was only by cutting the seams to the bag. I have had and worn that lifejacket for at least 7 years and it really took very little water to activate the self inflator. Don't get me wrong - I know that next time it may not inflate as easily but it certainly gives me some level of confidence. I am far more likely to wear that than one of those bulky kapok things and this also has an integral harness so I kill two birds with one stone. To each his own. Wishing you fair winds and good sailing Simon Lock IP-32 - Kichigai, Atlanta, GA [email protected] From: Sandy Coleman Received: 5/10/2000 6:22:58 PM Bill, Is your concern with a self-inflating jacket or an auto-inflating one? I believe in a harness at night but we are seriously considering changing to either self inflating or auto inflating jackets with built in harnesses. The type 1's are too uncomfortable to wear for an extended time and I agree with Simon that something is better than nothing. One of my concerns with the auto-inflators is having it inflate automatically while under something in the water and not being able to dive down to get out. I have heard that the problems with inflating from splash or rain have been solved. Does anyone know this from experience or have an understanding of how the water activated trigger mechanisms have been changed (if they have)? Sandy Coleman inflatable PFD's From: Bruce Gregory Received: 4/11/2001 9:44:00 PM My vote also is for the SOSpender's PFD, albeit a little tight for chests, but I have no real complaint after four years of use. Never saw them up close but the new Stearns models look awfully slim and comfortable. Fair winds and calm seas, Bruce Gregory, IP-32-84 Morning Star Inflatable Repair From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:12 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 43 of 62 Inflatable Repair From: Walt Radig Received: 5/23/2000 10:26:09 AM I have several pin holes along the seams of my Avon. Does anybody have any experience or comments about using an acrylic sealant that you put into the boats tubes to patch the leaks? Walt Radig Sweet Pea IP-350 Inflatable Tender for IP40 From: Mal & Joan Tanton Received: 9/6/2003 10:46:38 AM Have owned an Avon 2.8 rollup floor for about eleven years. For the last six years have had it mounted on Kato davits attached to the stern rail. We use a 5hp four stroke outboard for motive power. During each of the last six years have cruised for 5 or 6 months in the Bahamas and now in Grenada. The dinghy is now showing signs of age and it is time to replace it. The question is what should we replace it with. We would like drier boat and have been considering an inflatable with a rigid hull. The problem however is that rigid hulls made of fiberglass are much heavier and would probably require extra bracing for the stern rail. Understand that rigid hulls made out of aluminum are much lighter. Does anyone have experience with aluminum bottomed inflatables such as the AB Luminna. Mal and Joan Tanton Mal de Mer IP40-99 From: Carey Colwell Received: 9/6/2003 11:19:32 AM I bought an Avon RIB-lite 3.10 (hard bottom) this spring and I recall that it is "only" ~ 90 lbs. I row it fairly often and it really flys with an 8 HP Yamaha 4-stroke. The new Walker dinghy with the soft sides looks interesting, especially if you would ever want a sailing rig. Carey Catspaw, 380/22 Narragansett Bay From: Vern & Michelle Wannabe Received: 9/6/2003 12:54:01 PM I have been considering the Avon RIB-lite when we need a new dinghy. Will it get on a plane with 4 people with your 8hp Yamaha. How "small" does it package up when deflated and will it store easily on deck for offhsore passages? And how do you like your Yamaha, I have been seeing good coments about them. Thanks in advance. Vern & Michelle IP gonna be's From: James Metcalf Received: 9/6/2003 12:55:45 PM Reference hard bottom dingys, I can recommend the Caribe MVP Light series, I have the L10 which is 10'3" overall, weight is only 116 lbs and is rated up to a 15hp engine. 17" tubes and it is one of the most stable dingys I have been in. They also make the L8 (8'5" overall and weighs103, rated up to a 8 hp engine), and the L9 (9'1", and 110 lbs, up to a 10 hp engine). Excellent quality. Don't want to start a firestorm but for what it is worth, I have a very low opinion of new Avons. Ever since they merged with Zodiac the quality control has gone down the tubes. Avon used to be a top line but the new ones, under hard use have been a real headache to the owners. The customer service is great and they will bend over backwards to resolve a failure but who wants to send it back, etc., especially if you are out of country. I have Edson davits and there has been no problem with it on the stern. I do use a boat cover on the dingy during passages so if I get hit with a following wave it doesn't fill with water, just suffers the initial hit. No problem so far. I know many don't like a dingy on davits when offshore but it is a choice I have made and while not the ideal location, when considering the variables involved in my cruising lifestyle I am content with it. All decisions are a compromise, what ever you get, you have to give up something; in real life you have to make choices and many times it will not be what the "book" says is ideal, but then real life seldom goes as the book is written, smile. Different strokes for different folks. James Metcalf Morgan Lea, IP38-81 [email protected] From: Athanasios Stathopoulos Received: 9/6/2003 2:34:20 PM Mal and Joan HAve had an AB 3.90 Laminna for the past 4 years. I carry a 15hp Yamaha on it with an integral 15 gal tank in the bow. Very pleased with the way it handles, very fast on plane with me and wife on board, excellent for pulling up on the beach I carry it on Kato davits and have had no problem with it so far. So far does not show any signs of any deterioration Would buy another one when it's time to replace it. Athanasios Amazing Grace PC35#26 At 03:46 PM 9/6/2003 +0100, Mal and Joan wrote: >Have owned an Avon 2.8 rollup floor for about eleven years. For the >last six years have had it mounted on Kato davits attached to the stern >rail. We use a 5hp four stroke outboard for motive power. During each >of the last six years have cruised for 5 or 6 months in the Bahamas and >now in Grenada. The dinghy is now showing signs of age and it is time to >replace it. The question is what should we replace it with. We would >like drier boat and have been considering an inflatable with a rigid >hull. The problem however is that rigid hulls made of fiberglass are >much heavier and would probably require extra bracing for the stern >rail. Understand that rigid hulls made out of aluminum are much >lighter. Does anyone have experience with aluminum bottomed inflatables >such as the AB Luminna. > > >Mal and Joan Tanton > >Mal de Mer IP40-99 > > > > > >-- >------>SailNet Delivers honest pricing, >free shipping and no sales tax (except SC)! >Get another 4% off with a SailPerks Membership. >Visit www.sailnet.com today! > > From: Carey Colwell Received: 9/8/2003 8:51:43 AM Vern and Michelle - I am going to assume that this was intended for my response. If not, just delete. I have not tried to get it on plane with 4 people, but with two it gets up on plane at less than 1/2 throttle and stays there eased off to ~ 1/3. Most of my use has been in crowded Salt Pond on Block Island which is not conducive to high speed dinghy traffic. My only two other times with 4 people were in conditions too rough for planing. I really like the Yamaha, very quiet and user friendly, but it is still brand new. I don't recall the exact bag measurement (it is in the IP list "archives" somewhere) but am pretty sure that the length is 7'6" and the width probably about 40". I think that it would store easily on most decks, but I would intend to store it below when offshore. Carey and Bobbi Colwell Catspaw, 380-22 Narragansett Bay From: Mal & Joan Tanton Received: 9/10/2003 1:40:37 PM Anathanasios Thanks for the comeback . Interested that you have a larger dinghy than we had been considering (3.9m vs 2.9m) as you have a smaller boat than us (35' vs 40'). We would like to go for the larger dinghy but had thought that it might be too long and possibly be in the way when docking the big boat. Have you had any problems in this regard? Did you have the integral fuel tank custom made or was it a factory option? We would like to have a watertight locker in the bow for flares etc. Could the fuel tank be converted? What is the total weight of your
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 44 of 62 Inflatable Tender for IP40 dinghy? Mal and Joan Tanton Mal de Mer IP40-99 Athanasios Stathopoulos wrote: > Mal and Joan > HAve had an AB 3.90 Laminna for the past 4 years. I carry a 15hp > Yamaha on it with an integral 15 gal tank in the bow. Very pleased > with the way it handles, very fast on plane with me and wife on board, > excellent for pulling up on the beach > I carry it on Kato davits and have had no problem with it so far. So > far does not show any signs of any deterioration > Would buy another one when it's time to replace it. > Athanasios > Amazing Grace PC35#26 > > > > At 03:46 PM 9/6/2003 +0100, Mal and Joan wrote: > >> Have owned an Avon 2.8 rollup floor for about eleven years. For the >> last six years have had it mounted on Kato davits attached to the stern >> rail. We use a 5hp four stroke outboard for motive power. During each >> of the last six years have cruised for 5 or 6 months in the Bahamas and >> now in Grenada. The dinghy is now showing signs of age and it is time to >> replace it. The question is what should we replace it with. We would >> like drier boat and have been considering an inflatable with a rigid >> hull. The problem however is that rigid hulls made of fiberglass are >> much heavier and would probably require extra bracing for the stern >> rail. Understand that rigid hulls made out of aluminum are much >> lighter. Does anyone have experience with aluminum bottomed inflatables >> such as the AB Luminna. >> >> >> Mal and Joan Tanton >> >> Mal de Mer IP40-99 >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------>> SailNet Delivers honest pricing, >> free shipping and no sales tax (except SC)! >> Get another 4% off with a SailPerks Membership. >> Visit www.sailnet.com today! >> >> From: Athanasios Stathopoulos Received: 9/10/2003 3:55:31 PM Actually, I have had no problems with it since my boat is catamaran. As Rich described, , I need to be careful leaving the fuel dock because of the projection of the dinghy , even though that it is well inside my beam. Fortunately, with two engines, many times I can walk the boat out. The fuel tank is a factory option, I have my flares and additional items in a watertight duffel bag attached under the seat. Dont know if it can be converted, try to contact them, they are very responsive and will e-mail you back within 24 hrs. http://www.inflatableboatparts.com/html/boatparts.htm#abinflatables or Alvaro Betancourt [email protected] Athanasios & Mercedes Stathopoulos Amazing Grace PC35#26 Hillsboro Inlet, FL Inflatables From: Joe Wilcox Received: 6/3/1999 12:57:45 PM Have you considered the Avon 9'4 RIB? It has full 17 tubes and deflated will fit snugly under the Hoyt staysail boom on a 350. It should plane nicely with an 8 horse motor. Joe (350-06) From: Cliff Kisby Received: 8/23/2002 6:13:10 PM Peyton, I bought an Achilles that was 15 years old. I used it for five years and lost it in the surf which destroyed it. In 1988 I bought another which I am still using and its in great shape except the blue is fading. They wear like iron and I would buy the same again. Regards, Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby 40-75 Lady Lex From: Charlie Purdum Received: 8/23/2002 9:13:20 PM Ditto for our 1984 Achilles, a great boat and also classy look with the wooden floorboards. I'm sure others prefer easier to care for materials but these boats are built to last. Charlie Purdum Valhalla 350-36 From: Gratitude Marina Received: 8/24/2002 12:06:11 PM Hey Kisby's The Big Brother is watching and the food at the K'ville Inn is Marvelous!!! Sorry you haven't been down here to enjoy it. Don't say anything bad about me in the internet. Sincerely, The Voice of 27th Street [email protected] From: Cliff Kisby Received: 8/26/2002 5:47:54 PM I know who you are and I will be down one of these days. Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby 40-75 Lady Lex From: Cliff Kisby Received: 8/26/2002 6:11:46 PM Jane & Gilbert, not knowing there would be four of you in the dingy I don't think an 8 hp would be enough. Regards, Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby 40-75 Lady Lex Inflatables, AB Rib From: Bill Langlois Received: 3/1/1999 11:24:18 AM Has anyone had any experience with an AB rigid inflatable boat with an ABS plastic hull? It looks like a durable light weight solution, but other than Practical Sailor's review of the AB inflatable with a fiberglass hull, I never heard of the AB firm. From: Paul Turner Received: 3/1/1999 2:34:58 PM It's a quality boat manufactured in Venezuela (a neighbor slip has one) - I have a Caribe which was designed by the same man, also built in Venezuela, and definitely a quality product. At the time purchsed (about five years ago) I felt that the Caribe was superior. --Paul Turner S/V Manitou IP-40-29 From: Joe Laczko Received: 3/1/1999 5:25:00 PM Bill, The AB fiberglass hull is in my opinion a stable, quality product but the plastic hull is a totally different RIB. I test drove both hulls and found the plastic hull (which has a V shaped inside surface) to be the worst of both worlds between the fiberglass RIB and an inflatable. It is very unstable, not smooth up on plane and while light, cannot be stored easily. I bought the AB fiberglass RIB. Joe Laczko IP-380 - 8 Dawngreeter From: Bruce Gregory Received: 3/1/1999 5:54:00 PM Bill- We have an 8.5' A/B (Artigiana Battelli) RIB inflatable, manufactured in Argentina and except for the fact that it is a heavy little sucker (ours is the fiberglass model) we are extremely satisfied with its performance. We had a soft bottom with our last boat so we naturally were amazed with
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 45 of 62 Inflatables, AB Rib the A/B's smooth handling characteristics with it's hard vee bottom. We have powered this one with a six HP Merc which might be slightly under powered for those who want to get it up on plane with several people on board, I am able to get it up on plane with me solo (I'm 220) and then she flies like a PWC, which for the most part is faster than I usually want to go. Parts seem to be readily available, air valves, oarlocks, etc as I have purchased both (I broke both myself) without any problem from the Inflatable eXperts up in RI. We keep ours on Kato Davits (motor separate) and all in all I would have to agree with the high marks of the P.S. review. Bruce Gregory, IP-32-84 Morning Star > From: William R. Maire Received: 3/3/1999 12:22:13 PM I friend of mine purchased the AB with the PVC hull. The transom failed. They are in the process of returning the boat to the manufacturer. Inflatables, AB RIB CORRECTION From: Bruce Gregory Received: 3/1/1999 5:58:00 PM CORRECTION- I inadvertently listed Argentina as the A/B manufacturers origin and that was incorrect, I should have listed it as Venezuela. - Bruce IP-27 And Dink Storage From: George Koffenberger Received: 1/25/2000 6:52:27 AM I am interested in learning how folks handle dink storage on their 27's. I have a cutter rig and am looking at a 9'6 dink but am having trouble determining a good place for out of the water storage - short of breaking the boat down, which I understand to be a chore. Any thoughts from the group would be appreciated. George Koffenberger 'Luff Affair' IP-27-84 From: George Koffenberger Received: 1/25/2000 11:10:22 AM Have you had any experience with a dink on davits on an IP-27? I am concerned about the dink dragging in a sea way and the additional 'beam' created on the stern. George Koffenberger 'Luff Affair' IP-27-84 From: Irwin Roberts Received: 1/25/2000 4:33:59 PM I have the same problem on my IP-320-18. Went to the Atlantic City Boat Show and saw the Kato Davits. Fell in love with what I think is a darn good product. My dink will be hanging from these davits next spring. Best and good sailing. Irwin Roberts Wind Dancer From: Steve Weiser Received: 1/25/2000 11:21:02 PM George...this is not an answer to your question, but take a look at the Zodiac and West Marine (made by Zodiac) dinks with the high pressure floors in them. We have a 10'6 model and they are much easier to stow than anything else. You might want to consider a shorter model, which they offer. Full disclosure: we now have davits, on which the dink is hanging, but we bought the dink years before the davits and it is still holding up. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Steve Weiser Received: 1/25/2000 11:21:24 PM George...this is not an answer to your question, but take a look at the Zodiac and West Marine (made by Zodiac) dinks with the high pressure floors in them. We have a 10'6 model and they are much easier to stow than anything else. You might want to consider a shorter model, which they offer. Full disclosure: we now have davits, on which the dink is hanging, but we bought the dink years before the davits and it is still holding up. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: William Mayberry Received: 1/26/2000 6:52:18 AM I have just added some Edson dinghy brackets to my IP-37. I am hoping they will work fine until I can afford to add some davits. The dink just hangs from these brackets off the stern rail. The problems are getting the dink up to the brackets if it's too heavy and you would probably not want to use them at sea. Just my thoughts. Wm Mayberry OPTIMYSTIQUE IP-37-30 IP-40 Dinghy Capability From: Ken Chattell Received: 12/31/2001 2:03:37 PM We have the IP-40 equipped with the Kato davits. I am looking to purchase a new dinghy but am not sure what size one can carry across the back of the boat. I am planning the wooden floor foldable type and will store the engine separately from the boat. Any information as to size and max weght would be much appreciated. Our boat is located in the Deltaville area and would also appreciate the name of any dealers you are familiar with in that area. At the moment we are considering the Avon, Zodiac or Achilles. As for the engine we are considering the short shaft 15hp Merc. or Yamaha and would appreciate the same information regarding an enginge purchase. I will be going to the boat via Norfolk mid month so any names down that way would also be helpful. Many thanks and the best of the New Year of all on the list. Ken Chattell Geneva IP-40-62 From: Rich Michaels Received: 12/31/2001 2:44:53 PM Ken, A ten-foot model is the right fit for the stern of an IP-40. Regarding weight we carry a 10' RIB by Caribe that weighs about 200lbs. It sits the stern down about an inch. A smaller dingy is obviously easier to handle particularly when bringing it on deck but then you sacrifice carrying capacity and engine size. Regarding engines the Yamaha has the best service record. Mercury (I was told by a mechanic) has the worst. We have a 15hp Johnson and carry it on the port side stern rail. Hope this helps. Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 From: Gary Drussel Received: 12/31/2001 8:55:54 PM Ken, We have a 40 with Kato davits and carry a 9.3 Avon rib with a 8hp Nisson. The Kato's allow the dingy to be mounted very high and 95% of the time we carry the dingy on the davits. You can probably go larger if you are using a wooden floor, fold up boat, however, I think you will
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 46 of 62 IP-40 Dinghy Capability soon find out how inconvenient it is. I would opt for a smaller boat, rib, and maybe a smaller engine. IMHO the Yamaha is by far the best saltwater engine, however, our cheap little Nisson has given us 100% service. We have been thru some fairly nasty stuff with the dingy on the Kato's. Just do not forget to pull the drain plug! (experience speaking) Gary Surrender 40/72 From: Ken Chattell Received: 12/31/2001 9:48:41 PM Gary and Rich Much obliged. We have opted to go as large as we can and use the wooden/fiberglass floor. I feel that the larger a boat with the strongest floor will have more rigidity; a factor I believe enhances the ride and safety. I would have preferred the rib however we will be leaving the boat for extended periods of time while we return home to visit new grandkids and the inflatables are just to tempting to some. I am anticipating dismantiling about 3 times a year-that hassle I will have to live with. Amazing how some lessons are always learned the hard way. someday maybe we can trade stories about dinghy experiences. They can gain some interesting flight characteristics-Bernoulli would question his theories. Ken From: Tom Jones Received: 1/1/2002 9:21:58 AM Ken; We have had an AB RIB, 9' 6, 125 lbs, for 3 years on our IP with Kato davits, and have never been disappointed with the choice. We carry on the stern rail a Nissan 9.8 hp outboard. Our boat neighbor has a 12 year old IP 35 with Kato davits, with the same dink and a 15 hp Merc outboard and likes his setup. AB also makes a 9' 6 RIB with aluminum rather than fiberglass that is much lighter. Regards, Tom 45/33 From: Steve Weiser Received: 1/1/2002 2:51:21 PM Ken....we have a 9'6 Zodiac w/inflatable floor, and a 5hp Honda 4 cycle, handing on our stern davits. Fits quite well. Nice thing about this zodiac is that it rolls up quite compactly should you ever need to stow it on deck. The outboard is wonderful and reliable, but heavier than 2 cycle engines. If I were to do it again, and for those who have davits, I highly recommend the Aquapro RIBs with aluminum hulls, made in New Zealand. You should check them out before you make a decision. These are actually much lighter than RIBs with fiberglass hulls. Friends of ours bought one to take cruising and I was highly impressed with its construction. This is their website, and I'm told they have U.S. dealers: http://www.aquapro.co.nz/index.cfm?fuseaction=list_ranges Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: George Meinke Received: 1/1/2002 9:08:31 PM Ken, I have a question about.....we have a 9'6 Zodiac w/inflatable floor, and a 5hp Honda 4 cycle,...your Zodiac motor combo. We have that Zodiac on our 350 and like the ability to roll it, store it, lift it, etc. However, we have only a 3.5 Nissan 2 stroke and it will not plane even with only one aboard. We are considering buying a four stroke 5 horse Honda or a 6 horse Nissan. Will you Zodiac plane with the Honda, and do you like the motor. Thanks George Meinke IP-350 Island Star From: John Gaul Received: 1/1/2002 9:16:11 PM George, I have an Achilles airfloor (9'6) and a Honda 8hp four stroke. I couldn't get my dink to plane until I put those wings on the outboard to help lift the aft end to get the boat up out of hole it was making. You might want to try those things first (I forget their name but you can get them at West Marine) on your existing set up. I can plane with one or two persons now very easily. Your 5hp may also be enough. John IP- 380-59 acushla Clearwater, Florida mailto:[email protected] From: Ken Chattell Received: 1/2/2002 12:41:36 AM George, I can't answer your first question as the comment actually came from Steve Weiser. As for the Honda, past experience with a 9.9 was an absolute delight. It ran forever and was most miserly on fuel. As for its demise my wife would be delighted to tell you why you should put a restraining cable/chain on them. Many lthanks to those who have answered and I am following up on your suggestion; even rethinking my original decision to avoid the rib's. I'll be at the boat in stingray marinia (deltaville) on the 12th for a week. if anyone about please stop by and say hello. Ken Geneva IP-40-62 From: Steve Weiser Received: 1/2/2002 11:00:47 AM George, it won't plane with two of us aboard, but it will, barely, with one person aboard. However, the Honda is a great engine. Other sailors I know swear by Yamaha 4 cycle outboards and claim there is better maintenance resources for them outside of the U.S. Another advantage with 4 cycle motors is that you don't have to fool around with mixing oil and gas. Just put unleaded regular in the thing and go. If planing is important to you, and if you have a motor hoist, you might consider going with a slightly larger engine...a 6 or a 9.9. Prop and the angle of the outboard in the vertical axis relative to the dink are factors, too. In thinking about planing dinghys, I have to wonder why it is important. If you are always in a hurry, or have to dinghy long distances to your diving grounds or to run your beaver traplines, I can understand it. I also realize that when you plane a hull you get better fuel consumption, but who cares about fuel consumption with a small outboard? Also, the Admiral claims she is less comfortable when going really fast in the dink, and sometimes wetter, too. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Harry V Butts Received: 1/2/2002 3:31:30 PM George, I have the same setup and am very happy with both the high pressure floor and the 5 hp 4 stroke. However I too have not been able to get it up on plane and will look for the suggested outboard wings Harry IP-420, And How To Carry A Dinghy From: Charles Ouimet Received: 2/28/2000 4:44:38 PM Hi Dan. I have an IP-35 and I carry an 8 foot hard dinghy on deck between the mast and mainsheet traveler when going offshore. I put the dinghy facing fore and aft, but I put it on the starboard side of the cabin top to avoid interference with the mainsheet and vang. I could not carry my inflatable this way because it was too wide. Charlie O, Serenity IP-35-94 From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 47 of 62 IP-420, And How To Carry A Dinghy From: Dan Millars Received: 2/28/2000 5:19:59 PM I saw my first 420 yesterday in Seattle. It had just arrived by truck. It is the frontrunner in my choices for a bluewater boat big enough for two couples. As I stood on the dock admiring this (very big) boat, I noticed that there didn't seem to be any really appropriate area on the deck which could easily accomodate a dinghy. I'm curious to know whether most long-distance cruisers with IP's are using davits off shore, or placing a dinghy on the deck so that it covers up hatches and thereby reduces lighting below, or what. Any opinions re: carrying a dinghy long distance would be appreciated. Dan Millar Albin 7.9 Catharsis From: Steve Weiser Received: 2/29/2000 12:45:56 AM Dan....we carry our dink on davits, but for ocean work, we deflate it and lash it on deck in a sunbrella bag made by our canvas shop for that purpose. Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY From: Stan Goldberg Received: 2/29/2000 9:02:43 AM Don't attempt a passage with a dingy on davits; deflate it and lash it to the deck in front of the mast. Stan Goldberg Barbara G IP-44 Kayak / Dink From: Joe Miano Received: 2/27/1999 1:18:40 PM Anyone out there have a kayak they take with them when cruising? Where do you store it, and is it hard/easy to get on/off the boat? Seems this would be the best way for getting into the gunk holes and other out of the way places. Or using a two place/seat as a dink. Any comments thoughts? Joe IP-27-183 From: Jack Peterson Received: 2/27/1999 4:29:02 PM Joe, I have a 9 ft. long Aquaterra Keowee model kayak which I carry on one side of the foredeck on my IP-27. My IP is sloop rigged. It weighs about 40 pounds so it is easy to get in & out of the water. I use the swim ladder to enter and exit the kayak. Here in southwest Florida it is great for exploring and fishing. Jack Peterson Good Idea IP-27-135 From: Michael Mirkes Received: 2/27/1999 7:43:17 PM You've brought up a topic close to my heart. We've (Mary and I) been sea kayaking enthusiasts for many years and I have been wondering how we will continue kayaking during our impending retirement cruise to the Caribbean. Our present molded fiberglass double is out of the question (it's 21 feet long). I've considered going to a folding kayak (hypalon skin and wood or aluminum frame) but I expect it'd be awkward to enter from a sailboat, not to mention the assembly on deck and the expense (around $3,000). Unless you intend to use the kayak in the Great Lakes or other cold water cruising grounds where you need the protection of a cockpit and spray skirt, I'd consider an inflatable kayak such as the 'Aire Sea Tiger II', http://www.aire.com/. The Aire boats came to my attention when I saw them in a National Geographics Special being used to approach a sperm whale in order to attach a video camera to its back! I thought that was a pretty good testimonial as to its reliability. Granted, an inflatable doesn't have the profile and lines of a fiberglass or even the folding models, but pursuing the good life is often a matter of trade-offs. As I sit here waiting out the northern Wisconsin winter, it helps to dream about dropping my inflatable kayak over the side into the warm Caribbean and then jumping in after it. Inflatables are easy to get in and out of from the water, unlike the 'glass or other rigid models with their tiny cockpit openings. Of course, they are not dink substitutes, but I think they are great playthings for snorkeling outings or simply paddling around shorelines for exercise. Mike Mirkes La Sirena IP-38-132 From: Paul A. Jones Received: 2/27/1999 10:59:16 PM Joe, Several years ago I got a Sevylor Tahiti inflatable kayak (West Marine # 546614 $179.99 p 126 '99 catalog). It is amazingly stable, very easy to paddle, quite strong, has a clear floor, roomy for 2, and fits in a large duffel bag. Weighs 25 #'s, inflates in a couple of minutes with a foot pump, take it on the plane with breakdown paddles. Best boat for the buck I ever bought. Paul A. Jones Halimeda IP-45-22 PS: I have no financial interest in Sevylor or West Marine. > Anyone out there have a kayak they take with them when > cruising? Where do > you store it, and is it hard/easy to get on/off the boat? Seems > this would > be the best way for getting into the gunk holes and other out of the way > places. Or using a two place/seat as a dink. > Any comments thoughts? > > Joe IP-27-183 Nested Dinghy's From: Jim Wright Received: 12/9/2003 9:31:14 AM If anyone is interested in finding out more info and construction and or having a nested dinghy built, you may contact John Danicic, at the following e-mail address: [email protected]. It was his article that was published in "Good Old Boat" about the construction process and then pictures of the finished boat. Many thanks - Marcy and Jim Wright, Gypsy 350/3 From: Joe Gormley Received: 12/9/2003 9:49:16 AM Another source for nested dinghy's is B & B yachts, on the web, located in Vandermere NC. The designer Graham Byrnes sells plans for sereral sizes. Plans are designed for building yourself or you can have it built. He has designed a variety of interesting vessels. I personally have a Spindrift, sweet sailing and towing dinghy. Joe Gormley IP 27-35 ------Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing New dinghy From: Rick Davenport Received: 5/13/2003 2:36:07 PM Anybody have any experience with these new dinks that are kind of a cross between a hard dink and an inflatable? I'm referring to the new Walker Bay RID and like products that seem to offer the best of both worlds but at a price that's 30-40% less than a RIB. Any advice appreciated. Thanks, Rick Davenport Sea Hawk 37-24
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 48 of 62 Owner Tales-Log of Adventure--October 28-292002--Exporing In Th From: Tom Grace Received: 10/28/2002 9:44:05 PM On Monday we slept late again. I can't believe how much we have slept the last two nights. But we are lazy and rested now. And we are well into this cruising life. :--) After we got ourselves going, we took the dinghy down a couple of three miles or so to Baker's Bay, where we found the now deserted old Disney resort area. We pulled the dinghy up onto the beach and went exploring. We found building after building, bars, restaurants, amphitheaters, mechanical and water pumping areas all abandoned and decaying on the western end of Great Guana Cay. We had heard about it for several years, but this was the first time we had found the time or had the inclination to locate the ruins and explore them. We could only imagine how wonderful, alive, and entertaining this place must have been in its prime. Now, it is overgrowing and, as we said, decaying and falling down, a mere specter of what it must have been at one time. We had been told about a path that led from the bay side of the island to the ocean side, and we followed what we thought was a path through a lot of the abandoned Disney place, into near jungle like conditions. After following the "trail" for what must have been close to a mile, through brambles, stickers, mosquitos, and other biting things, we gave up and turned back. We never did find the path to the ocean. When we got back to the beach, we were appalled that our dinghy was no longer on the beach. We had been gone longer than we expected, and it was floating free, thankfully only a few short feet off the shore. A close call that hopefully taught us a valuable lesson, so that in the future, we will always tie our dinghy securely. We got back in our dinghy, sweaty, hot, and itchy from all the unseen things that had bitten and assaulted us. We headed further West, along the alternating beaches and coral, until we reached the end of the island. There, a tranquil, white sand beach invited us to beach the dinghy and go for a swim. We had not brought our swimsuits, but we were so itchy and sweaty--and alone--that we quickly doffed our shorts and shirts and were in the water, cooling ourselves and scrubbing off the itchiness. The coolness and refreshment were so good as to be indescribable. We just relaxed and enjoyed the cool, clear water, which Deb remarked was clearer than the water we put in our big tub at home. After enjoying the coolness of the bay side beach until we felt refreshed and relaxed, we walked over white sand no more than 50 yards to the ocean side. We walked into the Atlantic Ocean together, again enjoying the solitude and the beauty of this delightful place that we had, thankfully, all to ourselves. Our lesson learned, you can be sure the dinghy was securely tied, when we left her for just those few minutes we spent in the ocean. After our swims, we came back to the boat, where we just relaxed and enjoyed the rest of the day. At 6:30 we jumped back in the dinghy for the 3 mile ride to Guana Seaside Village, a delightful bar, restaurant, and resort, which sits on the bay side of Great Guana and which is so delightful and small--only eight rooms--as to be a virtual hidden treasure. Dinner of grilled grouper for Deb and shrimp scampi for me, after a few drinks at the friendly bar, and we were ready to head back to the boat. Unfortunately, though there was no wind and the water was flat calm, it was pitch dark, and Deb was really frightened being several hundred yards offshore heading into darkness to find our boat, somewhere in the distance. She let me know in no uncertain terms that this was not something she wanted to do again. It was just too frightening. Tom and Deb Aboard Adventure At Great Guana Cay, Abaco, Bahamas Passage, Davits, Dinghy From: Hayden Cochran Received: 2/24/2002 7:17:48 PM IPDG: When heading offshore to Bermuda or coastal passages between Florida and New England, what do most of us do with the dinghy in the davits? Do you deflate and store below or on deck? Do you leave it in the davits and strap it down? If you leave it in the davits, have you ever been caught in rough conditions and wished the dinghy was not back there? Seems like on these larger IPs (my reference is an IP-27, 10yrs) the yacht is higher out of the water and the dinghy davits hold the dinghy at a safe height. I look forward to hearing about your experiences. Thank you. Hayden Cochran Island Spirit IP-35-165 http://RockHallFleet.com/IslandSpirit From: Bruce Gregory Received: 2/24/2002 9:01:00 PM Hayden- I have a A/B rigid bottom inflatable (140lb without motor) which for most of its life hangs from the davits. Two years ago I chose to leave it there while on a passage to and from Bermuda, the trip was uneventful for the inflatable. Last year I made two back to back passages to Bermuda sans the dink as I thought that maybe I could do with a little less weight ( I really didn't notice any performance difference). Now I am readying for a fourth trip to Bermuda this May and have decided to take the inflatable again and I will share the reason which will probably surprise you. I had an experience of pulling a liferaft cord without a resulting inflation! When I was finally able to set it off manually five to eight minutes later the tube at the canister froze to such an extent that it totally restricted the air flow resulting in nearly a 25 minute inflation....this before I had a raft I would have been able to climb into. After this experience, and with other horror stories I've read about, including unsavory characters in the liferaft repack depot business, and of course just poor shirt equipment, you undoubtedly can see where I am going with this. So, I have decided to take my chances with the inflatable over the liferaft, the inflatable is still functional even when there is little or no air in the tubes. Conventional wisdom is that yes you could take a wave over the stern and rip the dink, pushpit and davits off the boat or maybe even worse. The truth be known, if found in that kind of seaway (and this will shock the wise ones) I am going to lower the dink and trail it on the lee quarter with two or three stout painters. I will admit I probably wouldn't be so cavalier if crossing the Pacific sans liferaft but a crossing to Bermuda generally finds you in the company of a least one boat or ship each and every day of the passage which can be most comforting if the proverbial shirt hits the fan. With this in mind I am adding portable ballast tanks and a canopy for the A/B to my current sewing projects. Fair winds and calm seas, Bruce Gregory, IP-32-84 Morning Star From: Rick Fricchione Received: 2/24/2002 9:22:51 PM DO NOT USE DAVITS IN ROUGH WEATHER OR OFFSHORE. I've had my stabilizer bar snap in 10-12' seas. Sounded like God snapping his fingers. Even after strapping it down solidly. I have ratcheting web straps for use most of the time, but in the right seas you would regret it. Deflate it and stow it on deck or in a locker. Rick & Bonnie Fricchione IP-45-029 Time Bandit Portsmouth, RI. From: Tom Grace Received: 2/24/2002 11:10:23 PM Rarely do I find myself disagreeing with my friend, Bruce, but I have had not one but two bad experiences in open waters with the dingy on the davits. Both times we managed to save the dinghy, but not without risk to life and limb (once in the middle of the night, with all hands called on
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 49 of 62 Passage, Davits, Dinghy deck to assist). I would strongly advise against keeping the dingy on its davits, inflated or otherwise. We now deflate it, roll it up, and tie it on deck. As to the need for abandoning ship, with the dinghy as substitute life raft, I am quite certain that the possibility of abandoning ship is infinitely smaller than the probability of serious trouble with the dinghy on davits. Just my 2 cents. Tom Grace IP-38-175 Adventure From: Les Adams Received: 2/24/2002 11:23:54 PM Hayden: I have had a 10 Apex RIB on both our IPs---38 and 420. I have taken a different approach between Atlantic coastal cruising up the East coast from the Chesapeake Bay to NY, Newport and Martha's Vinyard and a passage to Bermuda. I figure that I can generally track on the potential for BAD weather better during a coastal cruise and duck into a number of different inlets/ports along the coast. Whereas, weather info is less available and accurate during a Bermuda passage and there certainly is no place to duck into if things look like they are going to or actually do get ugly. So, on coastal cruises I have lashed the dinghy in place on the davits (38) or arch (420). And on the passage to Bermuda with the IP-38 I deflated the dingy and lashed it down well on deck. Les Fully Involved IP-420-16 From: Michael Trautman Received: 2/24/2002 11:24:34 PM Has anyone has any experience with the Weaver Hinge system on sailboats? My wife and I have a very enjoyable charter on a Grand Banks trawler last fall that utilized this system. The dink was pulled up to the swim ladder, clipped in to the hinges, then pulled vertically against the transom. No extra weight. No extra windage. Perhaps some danger of being pooped? Seemed as secure tied to the stern as most dinghies I have had dangling from davits. Any comments? PS. I would not store an inflated dingy on deck, in davits, or in a Weaver Hinge offshore. Mike Trautman Island Princess (IP-27 - 09) From: Rob Dubin Received: 2/25/2002 6:46:13 AM Hayden, We have traveled many thousands of miles with the outboard on the rail and the dinghy in Kato Davits with basically no problems. There are times in these short steep Caribbean seas going to windward that the davits really spring around and the dinghy moves alot even though the hoist is two blocked and the dinghy is lashed fore and aft as well. We have certainly been in 12+ seas this way a number of times. When we go on a passage of more than 4 days beyond which weather predictions are accurate we stow it on deck. (Our old avon rolled up on deck and our newer 9' AB hard bottom is upside down and deflated). While I said basically no problems when looking at the davits carefully you can see one side slightly lower which has been caused by bending the rail (not the davit). Despite having both the box steel horizontal stabilizer and the sturts to the coaming that kato sells. If I had it to do over again one thing I would change on Ventana would be a REALLY sturdy arch to hold everything and get the dinghy higher out of the water. For those who do carry the dinghy on davits it is critical to get all slack out of the hoisting tackles. If you have bridles to the two bow and two stern eyes they must be very short. Any slack in the system allows the dinghy to generate several times its weight in momentum as it swings around and bounces up and down. The best davits have bars that continue past the dinghy hauling block and use internal blocks or a tiny winch rather than block and tackle. This way when the dinghy is up the top of each tube is pressing into a support and there is no slacke from a block and tackle. When on long passages we have found that a 9' AB deflated and upside down will just fit on the starboard side of the boat with the transom next to the traveler and the boat covering the dorade box there. Rob Dubin IP-40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal From: Rob Dubin Received: 2/25/2002 6:46:45 AM Bruce Interesting thoughts and experiences. Can you tell us what type of liferaft and how recently it had been reserviced. Rob Dubin IP-40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal From: Bruce Gregory Received: 2/25/2002 8:42:00 AM Rob- The liferaft was a Plastimo 6 man offshore raft in a canister, it had not been to a repacking facility for four years. It turns out that there was a recall on the valve but they never got to everyone who owned one. I had decided to buy a new one and was getting it ready to sell the 9 year old when I discovered the problem so I had the complete raft rebuilt from the ground up so to speak before I passed it on to a buyer (it nearly cost me money to sell it, my end of the rebuild less the recall was $700). I also had informed the buyer of its history and it turns out he was aware of the recall and still wanted the raft which was sent to him direct from the mfg's repair center. Fair winds and calm seas, Bruce Gregory, IP-32-84 Morning Star From: David Neelon Received: 2/25/2002 10:23:01 AM Hayden - I do not plan to carry my 10' Zodiac on the davits offshore. I will deflate it, bag it, and carry it inside, or perhaps in a locker. I don't find a good spot on the 350 to lash it on deck. In most cases I think it would be okay on the davits, but in the case where it's not okay, doing something about it becomes very difficult and could commit the whole crew to doing something needlessly dangerous. I say the whole crew because in all probability the accident will involve filling the dink with water, at which point it becomes too much for one or two persons to handle, even if the Kato system holds. I have been pooped by a following sea in the Gulf Stream on a Passport 40, which has a similar freeboard to an IP. We had no davits, but that wave might have reached over them if we had. The more likely case on a Bermuda passage is when the wind and current oppose, usually at an angle rather than directly. Then you get steep seas which collide with each other at an angle, randomly, and can build to remarkable troughs and peaks. You can fall off into a deep hole and find yourself looking up at an 18 footer and the clear blue sky. Not a good time to worry about whether the dink is secure. As to towing the dink on a short painter in the lee, I used to like to do that in coastal cruising. Keep it up close and you don't have to worry about trying to find the right painter length for the wave cycle. Then one day I made a mistake and headed out into Buzzards Bay in a gale, in a hurry to help my crew meet a schedule. We found that the wind could get right under the inflatable as we pitched on a steep chop. The dink flew in an instant once its nose came up, spun with the whole thing airborne and set down inverted. We could have let out some line and had a pretty good drogue, but decided to call it a day. :-) David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 50 of 62 Passage, Davits, Dinghy From: Steve Caneen Received: 2/25/2002 11:06:02 AM Mike, Edson makes two hangers for the stern rail that fit the tubes of an inflatable. Another solution. The weavers work best with a swim platform. Steve Caneen 31-246 From: Cliff Kisby Received: 2/25/2002 4:30:21 PM I can understand Bruce wanting to have the dingy as a back up, especially when going alone. I would put it on the deck partially inflated with the pump secured inside. I lost one towing it behind the boat. I had it pulled up tight to the top stern rail. One D ring snapped, the dingy turned sideways and the other D ring went from the sideways strain. My wife was with me but not feeling to good. It was rough as hell and I could not grab the dingy alone. Called the Coast Guard and told them where I thought it would wash up. Got a call two days later and went to get it. It was totally destroyed. The dingy went through the surf with the oars fasten inside and the oars ripped it to shreds. This was an Achilles with a wood floor. I'll trust my raft. And store the dingy below decks. Or on smaller boats top side. You could leave the floor out of it and scrunch it up to fit on deck partially inflated with a cover. I have davits but only carry the dingy on them coastal cruising. Chances are nothing would happen, but it only takes once to have a problem and when your alone...... !!!!!! Regards,Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby 40-75 Lady Lex From: Cliff Kisby Received: 2/25/2002 4:42:26 PM Bruce, I pulled one at an in store demonstration at a captains meeting. It was an AVON. It didn't inflate. Talk about egg on your face. The salesman was mortified. He had spent about twenty min. telling us how great this raft was. (Nobody bought an AVON) I often wonder if mine will inflate. I have an offshore Switlik. Regards, Cliff Cliff & Pam Kisby 40-75 Lady Lex From: Jeff Conklin Received: 2/25/2002 4:50:48 PM I went to school with the original Switlik's grandson, that is a neat company - grandfather was an immigrant, started making parachutes, won the Navy contract during WWII and the rest is history. George Bush Sr. is a member of the Switlik Caterpillar club (bailed out and survived). I know it's not boat related, but your mention of the Switlik name brought that memory back. Jeff Conklin From: Keith Lindholm Received: 2/25/2002 7:54:14 PM Hi Rob! I am interested in this subject since I am in the process of shopping for an inflatable, outboard (leaning towards Honda 4-stroke) and davits. Does Kato Marine make the davits in the manner in which you describe? Also, any comments from yourself, or the group, on the best inflatable out there for the money and the things to consider when purchasing one. Thanks, Keith J. Lindholm IP-31-180 True Love From: Hayden Cochran Received: 2/25/2002 8:59:03 PM Thank you everyone for all you detailed and descriptive writing about your experiences with davits and offshore passages. I now have a reconfirmed opinion off offshore....off davits and stow. I also can see Bruce's opinion of leaving the dinghy out there and having it as a backup life raft. That would seem to work until that rogue wave poops the davits and floods the dinghy. What I really have to agree with is Less Adams and Rob Dubin comments on making a stern arch and getting the dinghy up higher then the Kato Davits, plus this is much stronger. Less has that set up and it is very impressive! I also highly respect Tom Tursi, owner of Halimeda and the Maryland School, he never carried the dinghy in the davits on Bermuda passages. So, thank you again to all how help to enlighten me as I prepare for some longer voyages. Sincerely Hayden Cochran Island Spirit IP-35-165 Swan Creek, Chesapeake Bay Rock Hall, MD http://RockHallFleet.com/IslandSpirit From: Michael Trautman Received: 2/25/2002 9:17:53 PM Yes the trawler we were on had a swim platform to carry the dinghy on, with the Weaver hinges attched. Weaver appears to make models for both swim platform mounts and direct transom mounts. (http://www.weaverindustries.com) I have both an infatable and hard dinghy. I am considering mounting the transom mount hinges and installing the mating fittings on both dinks so either one could be used with the system. I recognize that the system would not be strong enough for serious work but we spend a fair amount of time in the ICW in relatively calm conditions. I guess my concern is with the possibility of scooping up a wave into either dinghy when the boat is heeling. I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience with this. Is the problem of scooping a wave serious? Will water drain quickly enough to avoid damaging boat or dink? Am I in unexplored territory here, using weaver hinges on a sailboat? From: William Mayberry Received: 2/26/2002 6:44:10 AM I have a set of the Edson hangers that attach to the stern rail and you hang your dinghy on them. I've added davits and no longer need them. If anyone is interested in them let me know. Wm Mayberry OPTIMYSTIQUE IP-37-30 From: Rob Dubin Received: 2/26/2002 6:59:20 AM It depends on your type of sailing. I started with a roll up Avon. Good dinghy easy to roll up and store on deck but wet. In the Bahamas and northeren Caribbean you see all kinds of dinghys and outboards - by the time you get to Venezuela 90% of the cruisers have gone to AB or Caribe RIB's and 15hp Yamahas. You can carry all your dive gear go fast and stay dry. When you dress up for dinner you can still arrive ashore dry. But they are heavier and awkward. Kato does not make the davits like I described and I am not sure who does- I have seen two types which I like but do not know the manufacturers. You might also consider a radar arch if you are going cruising that way you can have all your antennas, solar panels, wind generator and dighy there and get it high out of the water. You still need to put the dinghy on deck for passages over 4 days or so. I found I could put the 9' AB on deck with only minimal hassel but not the 10'. Rob Dubin IP-40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal From: Rob Dubin Received: 2/26/2002 6:59:39 AM I think the hinges would work fine on a trawler that does not heel. I think on a sailboat you would create tremendous drag and overstress the hinges causing them to break or worse pull out leaving a hole in your transom. Rob Dubin IP-40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal From: Received: 3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 51 of 62 Passage, Davits, Dinghy From: Les Adams Received: 2/26/2002 11:41:10 AM Rob: AB? Les Adams Les Adams Wireless from a Blackberry From: Andrew Gantt Received: 2/26/2002 6:27:57 PM On ocean passages, my basic goal is to avoid trouble. Having lost an entire dodger including the frame to a wave on one trip, I would say that there is a small but clearly positive probability that one could lose a dinghy on davits, or that it would be thrown in the boat by a breaking following sea. And, it is pretty likely that it will happen just when there are all sorts of other problems occurring simultaneously. Wishing to avoid trouble of this sort, I don't even consider davits or an unstowed dinghy on my boat. My life raft is in a stainless steel frame throughbolted on the cabin top with stainless cables surrounding it to hold in the frame. Or look at it another way. If you get dismasted, what is likely to happen in the same event to a dinghy and davits? If you're in the Annapolis area sometime, take a look at the topside of American Promise. Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350/88 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 2/26/2002 6:31:19 PM Yes, I too had a dinghy invert in a thunderstorm in the Chesapeake while towing it. It dove like a submarine and caused us a lot of trouble, particularly since one of those Toyota ships was bearing down on us out of the weather mess. Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350/88 From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/26/2002 7:07:54 PM On the Great Lakes, we don't anchor out and use dinghies often. We are blessed with great marinas. We are gearing up for the Atlantic. We currently row our 9 foot Quicksilver dinghy which is stored on davits. It sounds like 10 foot RIBs with 15 hp engines are common in the Caribbean, but dinghies are usually stowed for passage. This is all great if you have a 40 foot plus boat. Now, what about smaller boats? What is typical (if there is such a thing) for smaller boats making passages and also hanging around the islands? Is there a way to stow a 10 foot RIB on on smaller boats? Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 2/26/2002 9:20:07 PM Dear Bill, We have the smallest Achilles dinghy 2/3 people without a motor which can be rolled up, put in a bag and locker. We've used it (this is our second) for many years, and seldom felt the need for a larger one. Inflated, I can lift it on board without help, and we stow it behind the shrouds inflated while underway in inshore waters. It's supposed to be able to take a 2 hp motor, but we don't bother. Best, Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350/88 From: Keith Lindholm Received: 2/26/2002 10:16:18 PM Hi Bill! The Quicksilver is the boat I am considering purhasing. Are you happy with yours? Are they actually made by Quicksilver, Mercury as I have been led to believe or are thay made by Avon or Zodia? Thanks, Keith From: Wayne DeMeyere Received: 2/27/2002 6:49:53 AM Bill, We have a 10 foot roll-up with an aluminum floor. Day towing for short distances is ok however, passages required bringing the dingy on board. We have stowed it upside down, partially deflated, bow forward on the bow. Used the spinnaker halyard and windless to lift to the deck level. Ok, but not the best. We have also rolled the dingy up and stores below deck tied to the base of the mast and/or under the nav station. Works better but, hard work especially if stowing at anchorage vs.. at the dock. After trips to the Bahamas, Cuba and the Dry Tortugas I have finally decided to go to a radar arch and a hard bottomed rib. We use a 6hp outboard which gets us there, eventually. The payload capability with two adults is limited, wet ride and limited range for exploration because of the slow pace. I agree with the 15 hp engine size. I am planning to have an engine mount on one side of the arch (inside the boat stern width) for stowing. I believe removing the weight from the dingy will help reduce the side to side movement. The arch height will be enough to store the dingy much higher than the davits. Wayne DeMeyere s/v SHE-RO 35- 163 Wayne B. DeMeyere National Education Association 1745 Phoenix Blvd., Suite 330 Atlanta, Georgia 30349 770-996-9047 Cell 404-641-2755 [email protected] From: Will Carter Received: 2/27/2002 10:27:29 AM Does anyone think that the increased height of an arch will really make a difference in a storm? I'd love to use that as rationale for keeping my RIB and putting an arch on a new 420, but am not convinced it would do anything but give me a couple of percentage points of additional security, whereas stowing on deck would improve my odds more considerably. Will Carter From: Bruce McPherson Received: 2/27/2002 10:34:50 AM Anyone have any experience/opinions on the inflatables with the high pressure inflatable floors vs. the RIBs? Bruce Music From: Simon Lock Received: 2/27/2002 10:45:14 AM Will: Although I really like the idea of a radar arch for other purposes and if I were installing one I would include davits for use while coastal cruising; for serious blue water passages I would want my dingy securely tied down on the deck somewhere. For a RIB I would think that on the 420 you could place some mounting chocks on the cabin top between the mast and the traveller so that the dingy's length was across the beam of the boat. Could also consider placing it under the J-boom of the head sail but I am wondering if under bad conditions there might not be too much friction generated as the bow pounds into waves and gets inundated. Just my 2 cents Wishing you fair winds and good sailing Simon Lock From: Bobby Ward Received: 2/27/2002 10:49:10 AM Bruce: Have used both - on my 350 I feel that the only option is the HP inflatable floor version. I have a Zodiac HP inflatable think it is the 3.4m version. Would not make any extended passage with the boat inflated, keep it rolled and stowed in the lazarrette. Can't roll and stow the
3/23/2004 10:27:13 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 52 of 62 Passage, Davits, Dinghy RIB version. Bobby 350-57 Gra'inne From: Bobby Ward Received: 2/27/2002 10:50:26 AM Will: On an extended passage would not want the boat on deck or on Davits - even if a few feet higher on an arch of some sort. Bobby 350-57 Gra'inne From: Joe Barnette Received: 2/27/2002 11:32:58 AM I too am faced with the dilemma of what to do with my 10ft RIB Caribe during upcoming passages. I have a very substantial arch with extra strong Ocean Marine davits. The IP is a 38. I plan to have a cover made for the inflated raft. The cover will have handles and tie downs. I am not sure where to stow it - will try different alternatives when it is packed in bag. One of the former messages re using chocks caused me to think about a wild solution. How about putting it in a bag and then put the bag on top of the davits. It would be secured to the davits and the arch. Rear view? In case of a named blow you could always move it or even put it in the main cabin????????? Joe Barnette From: Simon Lock Received: 2/27/2002 12:06:36 PM Yes, Joe - and that named blow starts and builds quickly in the early hours of the morning when visibility is poor and most of your crew are brain dead while trying to catch a few ZZZ's. Not the best time to be manhandling an awkward object and trying to find a solution!!! Wishing you fair winds and good sailing Simon Lock From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 2/27/2002 1:24:30 PM Joe, We've always stored our Avon 310 inflated and upside down, bow foreword, between the mast and the baby stay. We don't have a boom on our staysail but I would think that a partially deflated RIB would fit under the boom. We had a Sunbrella cover made to fit the bottom and there are grommets about every ten inches. George has a single line which weaves through these grommets and also goes around the hand grab rail several times on each side. He also has two short pieces of rope that he ties between the aft straps on the dinghy (where the oar stores into on the tube) and the hand rail. Another heavy line is tied from the bow of the dinghy to the base of the baby-stay. We've carried our dink this way for years, including our trip into the Sea of Cortez....no sign of chafe on the dinghy tubes. When we were cruising and just traveling short distances we didn't lace the cover around the hand rail (a pain to undo) we'd just tie the bow and the two aft lines. On our return trip, the Baja Bash, we took a lot of blue water over the bow but the dinghy was totally secure.....maybe something about the curve of the dinghy hull when its upside down doesn't allow much water to get under it. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Joe Barnette Received: 2/27/2002 2:51:03 PM It's like reefing. Do it when you first think about it. My point was that normally you know a few hours in advance if you are going to be in major weather. Joe Barnette From: Ron Duff Received: 2/27/2002 3:15:00 PM Anyone have any experience/opinions on the inflatables with the high pressure inflatable floors vs. the RIBs? Bruce Music Bruce, I've had a Zodiac 10 footer with the high pressure, inflatable bottom for 3 years. Festina is at a mooring, and the dinghy is the the principle means of getting to it. For two years the dinghy was kept at a dock, and now it stays on land in a rack. Althought a key feature of the dinghy is the ease of rolling it up, the most important advantage for me is light weight -- about 50 lbs. This makes it easy to bring on board, pull up on a dock, turn over to empty rain water, etc. The 10 footer takes four people and some gear ashore easily at five knots with a 5 HP motor. The floor maintains its rigidity very well without a lot of pumping, but its ability to plane certainly doesn't match a RIB or even a well built wood floor inflatable. It will plane with one person aboard and gear stowed in the bow --at 12 knots according to my GPS (but of course that's above the speed limit in the harbor anyway). When cruising in Buzzards Bay we tow the dinghy (with outboard removed). We flipped it once in a chop caused by the collision of wind and current going into Woods Hole and while upside down it submarined as described in an earlier post. After we slowed Festina down, I easily pulled the bow of the dinghy up to the stern rail and secured it there, still upside down, for the rest of the trip. Light weight paid off. I do have a problem with the Zodiac, though. The oarlocks, soft plastic gizmos, bend and let the oars pop out in all but the best conditions. I have to be careful I don't run out of gas. Ron Duff -- Festina IP-32-01 From: Steve Caneen Received: 2/27/2002 3:25:28 PM Will, Anyone shelling out the big bucks for a new 420 should be able to get an answer to this question from the designer. The combined weight of the arch, dingy, motor, solar panels, various antenna and even wind generators must surely have an impact on how the boat handles in adverse conditions, given the position of the weight. Steve Caneen 31-246 From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/27/2002 3:40:00 PM The brand name changed to Mercury this year. I believe they are still manufactured in Illinois, but am not sure. I had a rare problem, after two years, bacteria ate into the hard rubber fittings leaving a very sticky yellow mess that would pull the hair off of your arms. The factory replaced the body excluding the air floor, oars, seat, etc for free. When I was at the factory, there was a stack of returns and it was very small. So far, it has worked very well with no other problems. They are very reasonably priced and claim to be the second largest manufacturer of dinghies in the world. AND, lets remember, Mercury is a cheesehead outfit just like North sails, Harken, etc. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/27/2002 3:44:49 PM Where have you all been without a motor? I hate gasoline on board, but was blown away from the boat twice last year. Once going who knows where from Isle Royal till a friendly Canadian chased me down. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 53 of 62 Passage, Davits, Dinghy From: Andrew Gantt Received: 2/27/2002 5:11:30 PM Dear Bill, I guess a small anchor on any dinghy motorized or not is a good idea!! Where without a motor on the dinghy? Pretty much everywhere in the Atlantic except the leeward and windward islands where I didn't have my own boat. Andrew From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/27/2002 5:24:49 PM Do you carry an anchor? And, if so, what kind that does not get stolen and does not puncture the dinghy? Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: George & Maureen Bigler Received: 2/27/2002 5:40:25 PM Bill, When we were cruising in Mexico we usually carried an anchor in our dinghy. We had bought a 'cute' little Danforth, or Danforth type, connected about 10' of HT chain and another 60' or so of light weight rode. I bought a canvas gym bag in which it all fit perfectly. I wouldn't dare leave the bag in the dinghy here but in Mexico we never had any theft. Having an anchor for your dink is a necessity if you want to explore and snorkel without taking the IP everywhere. Maureen Bigler RAPTURE IP-38-51 From: Andrew Gantt Received: 2/27/2002 7:01:10 PM Dear Bill, Well, sometimes!! We have a small Danforth that doubles as a luncheon hook for our mother ship(?) and we carry that as we do lifejackets, when we think we might get into trouble. But not always. Probably a mushroom would be the best as far as puncturing goes, wouldn't you think? Best, Andrew Mary Cabell IP-350/88 From: Mike Ratliff Received: 2/27/2002 9:40:40 PM Have used an APEX roll-up floor dinghy for 5 years. Easy to store on deck deflated. Carry 2 outboards: 8hp planes 2 adults, 2hp Yamaha, weighing only 25 lbs. is great in harbors, but like the 8hp in areas of long trips i.e. exploring and diving in Bahamas and Caribbean. Exploring some of the new light weight RIBS, as I think they still have superior handling characteristics, seem to be drier. It can be a long and wet trip across Elizabeth Harbor. For anchoring I use the largest folding grapnel with 8' of chain and 100' of rode. Have an arch with no provision for hoisting dinghy, and would never consider it, have enough weight and clutter as is. Mike Ratliff S/V Seabbatical IP-35-42 From: Rob Dubin Received: 2/28/2002 3:36:03 AM Bill, You might look into one of the hard floor roll up dinghys. Avon makes one or zodiac makes the one with the blowup floor. We were relatively happy with our AVON with a 9.9 outboard. While you will likely want the ability to roll it up and lash on deck, keep in mind that unless you choose to go offshore 90% of the sailing between the Bahamas and Venezuela is daysailing with the occassional 20-36 hr. overnighter. This means that unless you are stupid enough to sail on a schedule you can pick your wx window so you never get out in anything really bad. In this case davits should be OK. In 6 years of continous travel from Maine to Panama we have only put ours on deck about 4-5 times. Rob Dubin IP-40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal From: Rob Dubin Received: 2/28/2002 3:37:06 AM AB is the Italian designer/manufacturer of a hard bottom dinghy. It stands for Artigiana Bagatelli. AB and Caribe are the most commonly seen hard bottom dinghies in the Caribbean and both have factories in Venezuela. Rob Dubin IP-40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal From: Jaime Ramon Received: 2/28/2002 8:51:55 AM We carry one of those folding grapling type hooks that stow in there own little bag with about 80 ft line. We use the anchor to keep the dink away from docks, to bottom fish, and when leaving the dink on a beach while we explore inland. Anchor, oars, PFD's, and many other related items stay in the dink all the time. Never had a theft problem here in Miami or the Bahamas. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: Marie Miller Received: 2/28/2002 11:55:52 AM Rob, what are you planning on doing from Panama to the Marquesas? Have you kept your staysail setup? From: Bill Langlois Received: 2/28/2002 12:18:12 PM Thank you. I think we intend to get down to the Virgins via Bermuda, and possibly make other passages. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Rob Dubin Received: 3/1/2002 6:30:59 AM I did not mean to imply that storing a dinghy on an arch vs davits was sufficient for multi-day offshore sailing. Offshore for longer periods where any wx is possible I think you need to put it on deck. Rob Dubin IP-40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal From: Rob Dubin Received: 3/1/2002 7:31:49 AM I am not sure if you want to know what I am going to do with my dinghy, my staysail or my time? Actually I am hoping to catch up on my reading.
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 54 of 62 Passage, Davits, Dinghy enjoyed visiting your web site. In pictures it looks as if you have a bimini instead of a full cockpit enclosure. Are you considering additional enclosure? Marie and Paul Miller IP-40- 53 Ranger In Marina Del Rey From: Rob Dubin Received: 3/7/2002 8:08:05 PM Marie & Paul,, We found that we can store the 9' AB on deck (The 10' AB or Caribe will not fit there) on the starboard side of the boat. The dinghy is deflated and upside down with the stern next to the traveler and the dinghy covering the dorade box. It hangs a bit over the handrail but allows easy passage forward. We still have our staysail boom which we use frequently - though I wish I had the newer style hoyt boom. I often vang our boom forward and/or down to help with sail shape. A hard dodger would be great but we just have a regular soft one. Rob Dubin IP- 40 - 58 Ventana In the Panama Canal Porta-Bote As A Dinghy From: Kenneth D. Anderson Received: 1/22/1999 10:40:15 AM I am in the process of equipping a new 380 for full-time cruising. Many months ago I read an article/test in one of the sailing mags regarding the collapsible Porta-Bote as an alternative to an inflatable as a tender. I seem to remember that the article was generally favorable. My memory of this was jogged when I recently looked at one of these at the Houston Boat Show. I am considering buying the 10' model. Peceived advantages: Light weight Stowable for passagemaking 20 mph performance w/4hp engine Too ugly to steal Cheap Concerns: Rough weather stability? Hard to climb into when used as swim platform? Not enough positive flotation (safety if swamped)? Difficulty of assembly/disassembly on deck ? If anybody has experience with these boats, I'd really appreciate your comments. Also would be interested in whether you've used this dinghy in conjunction w/davits. Thanks in advance for any help that you-all can provide. Ken Anderson Packet Inn 31-257 Belle Lorraine 380-25 (production scheduled to begin next week) From: Peyton & Ruth Perkins Received: 1/22/1999 9:08:04 PM I have one set up in my living room (just got it delivered Tuesday; bought her at the Portland OR boatshow) right now and can't wait to get her on the water. I'll probably launch her a local puddle rather than run up to Seattle just to see how it works. I'll report back later in the weekend. Bet you could handle the 12 footer; that's what I had ordered, but the company talked me down a size before they shipped her. Peyton Perkins IP- 350 #56, Éowyn From: Ed & Ona DeChant Received: 1/23/1999 12:10:06 AM I just returned from the Dusseldorf Germany Boat Show, the largest Boat Show in the world. There I met a gentleman who has been building a port a boat for years. I was very impressed with the ones on display complete with sailing kits. They come in three sizes, 3.80 meters, 3.25 meters, and 2.80 meters. He does not distribute in the USA but can sell direct and ship here. I have already made arrangements if I decide to go with them. The boats I saw are wide and deep. Floatation was not to USA standard but was two infaltable pieces under each end. Persons familiar with both boats said that this one (the german one) was far superior. I intend to find a port a boat dealer near me to see for myself. You can get an english brochure on the German boat by writting TRIBELL, Handels-und Produktions-Gessellschaft mbh, Krohnskamp 33 D- 22301, Hamburg, Germany The owners name is Nicolaas Tjebbes and he speaks excellent English. Telephone 011 49 40 27 69 37 or fax 011 49 40 27 35 74. Ed DeChant, IP-38-40, American Dream From: Tim Bellas Received: 1/23/1999 7:41:36 AM Ken: I have purchased and owned the 8' version of the porta boat. It has not lived up to my expectations. The stability is not great especially when you are trying to step off your boat into it. Mine had a small leak from the transom area which I eventually fixed with some sealant. But the main drawback has been the difficulty of putting the boat together and tearing it down. Set up is much more difficult than the manufacturer describes. In fact it is very difficult to set up without at least two people. In addition, while the shell folds into a fairly compact package there is quite a bit of lumber that you have to stow while carrying the dinghy. The seats, which have support boards hinged underneath with flotation foam attached and the transom support board as well as a plastic cover for the bow of the boat. The hinged support boards have aluminum rivets through plastic which start to give way almost immediately and I have replaced all of them with stainless machine screws, washers and nuts. The cover at the bow is very flimsy and you are not supposed to use it for a step although it is the most convenient place to get in from. I don't have an outboard yet and the times that I used the boat with oars, I was not convinced that the movement through the water was very efficient. I also note that the maximum load capacity for the boat is not very good, although I recall that the article you mentioned specifically called it a good workboat It has also been a very difficult boat to recover from the water with several black marks resulting to the deck from the process. Of course, I have no special system for recovering the boat from the water. Since you mentioned davits, perhaps some of my problems will not be an issue for you if you do not plan to tear down and recover the boat each time you go to an anchorage. On the other hand, I read that article that you mentioned and you are right it was favorable. I can not remember how much actual use the person who wrote the article actually made of the boat before he wrote the review. The bottom line for me has been that I do not use the boat enough because of the amount of trouble involved in its use. Its in the garage right now and I have no winter season in my location. I am seriously considering an inflatable right now. Finally, I suspect that there will not be much of a market for a used one. Again, just one point of view, maybe your use for the boat will make it more From: John Pehler Received: 1/24/1999 11:49:34 AM To Ken and others regarding the PORTA-BOTE: I too was attracted to the PORTA-BOAT at the Annapolis show a few years ago.... I bought the 10' version to be used on our 30' previous sailboat. (The salesman was very persistant via phone over the weeks after the show.) I used it for several years but have moved away from it for a 9' Avon inflatable now. The Pro's of it are: Stable (fairly) Good fishing platform since the vinyl material isn't succeptable to being punctured by hooks and fish fins. Powers well with small engines(3.5hp max) Durable (tried without much damage to crush it during a stuck throttle docking manuvour with our IP-350) Reasonably light weight Easy to set up if you have three legs and
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 55 of 62 Porta-Bote As A Dinghy arms (NO Inflating!) The Cons: Takes up a LOT of deck space to store, even collapsed The removed seats take up a lot of space to store in the lockers Plastic black rub rails leave ugly black marks on your hull (or deck)! Tends to bog down (speedwise) with more than one person in it Light weight (and high freeboard) makes it fairly succepable to wind Hard to climb into from water Hard to set up initially from the boat deck (although it can be done) So, I wish you luck with yours... it not a bad dingy under some circumstances. (Anyone interested in a good used 10' Porta-Bote model sitting in my garage? $300 and it is yours!) John Pehler IP-350-21 Imagine From: Butler Smythe Received: 1/24/1999 1:56:25 PM I had one for 2 years and I would never buy one again. If you pull hard on the oars the oar locks will come out of the sides of the boat (they are pop rivited into the soft material). They can be a real pain to put together on the already too small decks and they are dam ugly!!! My opinion. I have a Trinka now. vr, Butler Smythe From: Irwin Roberts Received: 1/25/1999 3:19:00 PM Hi Butler and to those who have a Trinka: I was thinking of getting a Trinka or an Avon. I know about the Avon but not much about the Trinka. Does it have enough buoyancy so when I am swimming I can climb aboard? When towing in sloppy waters and water gets in the Trinka, what stops it from becoming a burden to tow? Thank you for the information. Irwin Roberts IP-320-18 Wind Dancer From: Butler Smythe Received: 1/25/1999 7:31:58 PM Trinka is a hard dinghy designed by Bruce Bingham and made in Vero Beach by Johannsen Boatworks. The Tinker is probably what you though I wrote. They are made in the UK and have a great reputation. Not as common as the Avon, Zodiac, etc. vr, Butler Smythe From: Kenneth D. Anderson Received: 1/26/1999 4:53:22 PM Thanks to all who responded to this thread. I think I'll look elsewhere for a dinghy for Belle Lorraine. Ken Anderson Packet Inn 31-257 Belle Lorraine 380-25 (on order) Porta-Bote As A Dinghy - An Alternative From: Jason Duncan Received: 1/27/1999 6:55:43 PM Ken, Check out the Jolly Boat. It is shaped just like an inflatable, but is built of fiberglass. It has plenty of storage in the tubes, has a built-in swim ladder, and they will paint it to match your hull color. The boat has all the advantages of an inflatable (namely its stability and load carrying capacity) without the 1 major disadvantage of inflatables -- inflating them. The company is in Florida; I don't have their number handy, but a couple of folks on the group do, so ask 'em if your interested. ------Jason S/V Truelove IP 45-28 Recommend An Outboard For Our Achilles Dinghy? From: Jane Mcclung Received: 8/24/2002 6:01:36 PM James, Thank you for the recommendation. We will check into the Yamaha 15hp when we get to Annapolis next week. Jane McClung Recommend An Outboard For Our Achilles Dinghy? From: Jane Mcclung Received: 8/24/2002 11:18:15 AM Thank you all for the many helpful suggestions we've received from people on this list. We have been reading the posts (and archives) on the pros and cons of different dinghies. Yesterday we ordered a 10' Achilles. Now we are wondering what outboard we should put on it? (sorry to bother everybody but this is getting very confusing and we have NO experience with this) We will have three to four adults riding in it. What size and what brand would you recommend and why? Feel free to answer at [email protected] Thank you! Jane & Gilbert McClung Memphis Belle, IP-380-115 From: The Marchands Received: 8/24/2002 4:27:45 PM Jane and Gilbert: Four adults on a 10' dinghy is a marginal planing situation. I had an Apex 10' with a 9.9 hp Yamaha 2 stroke and it would plane with three but I doubt it would plane with four, at least without a Doel Fin and/or a flat pitch prop. So if you want to plane with all four, first get a two stroke as they have more low end torque; second get at least 10 hp and third get the biggest displacement (cubic inches or cubic centimeters) in that size- more cubes means more torque. The Yamaha 9.9 hp 2 stroke fits all of these criteria. A Doel Fin (a triangular plastic plate that mounts just above the prop) will help with planing. A flat pitch prop will help as well. David From: Jim Metcalf Received: 8/24/2002 5:16:55 PM Many good engines out there but here is my recommendation: Yamaha 15hp Yamaha is quiet in operation, and is the work horse of Mexico and the Caribbean which is important as parts and service will be available. Your size of dingy needs a larger engine rather than a smaller one. When you live onboard, your dingy is your car, you need to go from point a to point b in a hurry if necessary. Most folks that say they don't need a dingy to plane probably don't live on board. If you are transporting provisions, going or coming from a dive site or visiting friends, you need to get on plane and get the job done, not to mention when you are away from the boat and weather kicks up.....the ability to get back in a hurry is important as well as the safety involved as you can handle a dingy a lot better on plane and it rides much better in sloppy seas. If you consider a 9.9 Yamaha (or one of the other makes) kick in a little more and get the 15 hp, the performance is substantial and you don't gain any weight, they are the same engine, tuning is different, so you get almost double the hp for just a little more money. James Metcalf [email protected] From: Robert Wilson Received: 8/24/2002 6:13:35 PM For what it is worth, everyone that I keep in touch with on the cruising circuit started out with a 9.9hp. It will plane easily with two persons, hard with four, even with the DoeFin. ALL have upgraded to a 15hp, 2-stroke. Even at that it is hard to plane with four sturdy crewmembers,
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 56 of 62 Recommend An Outboard For Our Achilles Dinghy? but with two it is a breeze, alot of fun, and will get you up and out when the weather is tough. Robert Wilson Gypsy Common IP-38 PS We opted for a Caribe RIB 10.3 and a Mercrury 15hp From: Steve Caneen Received: 8/26/2002 8:27:40 AM James, Couldn't agree more and would add that all the same arguments apply to having a rib vs other inflatable styles. Steve Caneen 31-246 From: Mark J. Nave Received: 8/27/2002 12:24:37 AM Jane & Gilbert: No need to aploagize. I spent 3 months researching outboards! So, the problem becomes how much weight, vs. how much performance. Absolutely forget about 4-cycle. 4-cycle is about 40-50% heavier Than 2-cycle for the same HP. (I'm thinking, back strain) For example, My 30 weighs 117 lbs, and a new 15 hp 4-cycle weighs 114 lbs. You can See the problem. Now, the whole field has changed because of EPA Requirements, etc. In CA, you cannot buy a 2-cycle between 10 and 35 hp. Can you buy a 2-cycle at all? Maybe in Mexico? The Honda 25 (4c.) weighs 159 lbs, And the 15 hp weighs 104 lbs. Moving to the 9.9 4-cycle doesn't help, at 101 lbs. HOWEVER, the nissan 9.8 2-cycle weighs 59 lbs, not that you'd want it--10 hp will never get you there. If you can find a 25 hp 2-cycle even made any more, you'd be happy. Guess I got lucky with my 30. I dive with 700-800 lbs of load, and 30 hp is PLENTY. The boat planes Quite easily, with power to spare. You'll have to check the Achilles manual, most likely you'll need a long shaft. One thing you'll absolutely want to do is add the stabilization wings on the motor. They aid in planing, and prevent porposing, the poping Up and slamming down of the bow. :) Big help!!!! Regards, Mark IP wannabe From: Jim Metcalf Received: 8/27/2002 1:37:53 AM Now, the whole field has changed because of EPA Requirements, etc. In CA, you cannot buy a 2-cycle between 10 and 30 hp. Can you buy a 2- cycle at all? Maybe in Mexico? I should have added, yes you can purchase a 15 hp Yamaha in other states, if you are in California, just take a trip below the Border and purchase your engine there. I purchased mine in Mexico and it is a 15 HP Yamaha Enduro which means it is made for third world countries. The same engine except it does not have all the pollution crap that the Stateside engines have. Gee, not only does it work better but you can work on it, or have it worked on anywhere. I paid about three hundred dollars less than what I would have by buying it in Arizona. If you are in the Gulf Coast that would be a good reason for a short little cruise, smile. For my Caribe 10.5 Light it is rated for a much higher engine, (forget if it is 20 or 40 HP), but it does only require a short shaft. James Metcalf [email protected] From: Paul A. Jones Received: 8/27/2002 7:54:43 AM I bought an IP sailboat because I wanted to enjoy the journey rather than seeing how fast I could get there. As a sailor, I also am concerned for the environment. Maybe there is a reason the EPA doesn't like 2 stroke motors. I have a 4 hp 4 stroke Yamaha and find it gets me where I want to go and I can lift it easily. On our previous boat we had a 10 hp 4 stroke. The 4 strokes use less fuel and no oil (except for the crankcase). Paul A Jones Ad Astra IP-37-16 http://www.geocities.com/kcjonz18 From: Colwell Carey Received: 8/27/2002 8:47:02 AM Paul - I agree. This concern about going fast is dismaying. (The Dashew mentality makes me wonder why they don't just fly.) If we rowed through our anchorages we would meet and talk with our fellow cruisers, and the peace, quiet, and cleaner environment would be wonderful. Imagine no generators and no outboards ;-) Carey From: Jeff Conklin Received: 8/27/2002 9:15:27 AM ...plus get some exercise... From: Joanne Ross Received: 8/27/2002 11:01:26 AM i have a 10' achilles. we have used and continue to use a 10 hp honda 4 stroke. it weighs approx 80 lbs. i have found it to be reliable and quite able to move people and groceries. i hope you consider the environmental aspect of the outboard you purchase. and not just from the standpoint of how to circumvent the regs. frankly, the 4 stroke has proven itself to be more reliable ( albeit heavier) and more environmentally friendly than it's 2 stroke counterpart. good luck joanne ross mach turtle From: Bill Langlois Received: 8/27/2002 12:16:13 PM My understanding is that no one outside of the US sells or stocks parts for 4 stroke engines. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: David Neelon Received: 8/27/2002 2:08:18 PM This sounds like bad-mouthing from the competition. and is not supportable. When we were in Belize recently, we observed that all (not most, but all) the fishermen and water taxi operators had switched to 4 stroke Hondas. Some carried their old Yamahas as spares, but they didn't use them. The same is true of the Lindblad cruise ships operating in the Sea of Cortez. Their Zodiacs were all equipped with 4 stroke Hondas. The Yamahas were on the mother ship, still operable, available as back-up, but not used. In the VI many local people were using 4 stroke Hondas, too. It's clear to me that Honda is making a major sales effort in the Caribbean and taking a big share of the market. A lot of Yamaha engines with many good hours left in them have been replaced early. Why could that be? David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: Hugh TATE Received: 8/27/2002 2:42:17 PM ditto in Pacific rim. - From: Bill Langlois Received: 8/27/2002 3:14:09 PM Good information. And, you guessed where this came from. Bill Langlois Hope IP-35-164 From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 57 of 62 Recommend An Outboard For Our Achilles Dinghy? From: Bob Gates Received: 8/27/2002 3:24:42 PM While the 4 stroke is more environmentally friendly, it's use overseas is limited. I understand that parts and service availability in the Caribbean, South America, Europe and the Pacific is practically non-existent. Something to consider if you plan on extended cruising. Bg. From: Eddy May Received: 8/27/2002 4:44:24 PM I am using a 4 stroke Honda and a good dealer network exists here in the Netherlands at least. Eddy May Windfall IP-380-81 > From: David Neelon Received: 8/28/2002 9:30:00 AM What's wrong with this picture? Are we generalizing about all 4 stroke engines outside the US on the basis of Yamaha's distributors not supporting them, or perhaps the manufacturer was late in introducing them? Why do I see so many Honda 4-strokes in the Caribbean and yet hear these rumors that there's no parts and repair support for any 4 stroke engines outside the US? Sounds to me as if maybe Yamaha fell behind the market and their supporters are spreading the sour grapes, while Honda is out in front in the 4 stroke market. I can't ignore the fact that I saw so many cases where local people, who make their livings in the Caribbean using their outboards, had retired serviceable older 2-stroke Yamahas and replaced them with new Honda 4-strokes. There was not a Yamaha 4-stroke in sight at the time I observed this. If they could have got them, at least some of those former Yamaha users would have replaced their engines with new Yamahas, wouldn't they? And if 4-strokes did not have significant advantages in those users' eyes, they would not have bought them at all. Yamaha still sells the good old designs they've used for years. Now that all this talk has spread around, though, I surely wouldn't want to try sell Yamaha 4-strokes against the Honda competition. Too bad, because they're probably a fine product. David Neelon Unity 350-04 From: Jim Metcalf Received: 8/28/2002 5:05:04 PM Are we generalizing about all 4 stroke > engines outside the US on the basis of Yamaha's distributors not supporting > them, or perhaps the manufacturer was late in introducing them? Funny how this discussion has evolved from listing the various factors one would use to select an outboard to where it is now. But since we are here. One person said that they were in Belize and there was not a Yamaha in sight, just Hondas. Funny as when I was there three years ago the opposite was true. Then one was mentioning that repair parts had to come all the way from Japan. Okay, lets re-think our US based perception. 1. Both Yamaha and Honda are Japanese, they (not the US) are the primary mfg, even though we make a lot of them here. Why would the other counties be ordering parts from us first without specific conditions, i.e.,closer, price, etc., being to their advantage? In reality, with the various trade restrictions, etc., that can be in place at any one time it can often be quicker and cheaper to order from, (what to us would be overseas). But remember, to other countries, we are overseas!! 2. In other countries there are many reasons why a particular type or brand may be most prevalent and usually it has little to do with the merits of one over the other. The customers will buy and use what is available, if there is only one selection to be made, dud! In Mexico, worker co-ops are very prevalent, they work much like Cost-co, what they have -there are good prices on, but who or what determines what they have. In Cost-co, Sam's, etc., it is buying lot groups at a low price, but in other country co-ops I'll let you guess how deals are made. Also, just like franchises exist in the U.S., they are really strong in places like Mexico. A business can sell either one brand of beer, (and it's related sub-products), or you can buy the other, but you cannot sell both. Same with much other merchandise. Where I was in Mexico, the Yamaha dealer was there for years, then he lost the franchise due to various reasons. Until a new manager came into the store all you could buy from that shop was Johnson's and Mercs. You could buy Yamaha 40HP and up, (from a commercial jobber in another city but not the smaller outboards). 3. In buying a outboard, it has been stated, identify your intended usage, and you will find the following factors should influence your choice. A. Brands; This is like arguing Chev over Ford, each have their advocates and common sense has little to do with it. Most opinions in this area are like religion, you like what you have as you have always had it, or you like what you have because you had a problem with another and you changed. Neither situation is the final word on what is best. a. B. Weight; This is probably the biggest factor why most folks that cruise and live on-board choose 2 stroke. Not only does it make your dingy lighter (easier to plane) an to pull up on shore but you person handle that thing a bunch when cruising, if you don't pull it up and secure it each day you run the chance of it being stolen. Remember, the idea boat would be set up for the smallest and weakest person on board to be able to handle it, well this should go for the outboard as well. While you may not be concerned about the weight what happens when you have a broken hand and someone less macho than you has to help? Weight is important at the end of the day. Also, think of the extra weight on the stern rail where most stow the engine. C. Cost; HP vs. HP (and that is really what we are buying) 2 stroke is hands down cheaper, no question. D. Reliability; Remember the old axiom, KISS (keep it simple stupid), it works with engines. You can use and abuse a 2 stroke far beyond what a 4 stroke will take and just like a Timex, it keeps on ticking. E. Parts Availability; More two strokes around therefore there should be parts available if you need one. Also, in most of the other countries, most of the new or rebuilt parts unfortunately are just parts from other old engines. While 4 stroke engines have many good features, they are new and you do have to rely up a mfg. or dealer for parts. On a side note, when buying a new outboard you shouldn't have to worry about mfg. warranty on a 2 stroke as there should be nothing to go wrong in the first three years at least, usually five. On a 4 stroke, go back to D. F. Noise and reduced fuel usage; These are the big advantages of a 4 over a 2 stroke, are these two factors enough to over ride the other negative factors, not in my mind but it may in yours, if so - go for it, my opinion is no better than yours but it is mine, smile. P.S. Some have expressed contempt for the aspect of being able to plane and to go fast when needed. Would you buy a car for the highway that wouldn't go over 40 miles an hour even though most of your driving is in town and doesn't exceed that? Don't think so. Having the power doesn't equate to having to use it, most of us like a quiet surrounding but most of us like our Hinny's more and when the power will get us to a doctor, out of the rain, set a second anchor in a hurry, or to use the dingy to tug a boat if you have main engine failure you will bless the extra horsepower and give her a nice sweet water bath when you get through. James Metcalf Morgan Lea, IP-38-81 [email protected] From: Received:
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 58 of 62 Recommend An Outboard For Our Achilles Dinghy? From: Steve Caneen Received: 8/29/2002 8:41:24 AM James, Exactely what I was thinking. Being a waterman, I don't like the pollution aspects of the 2 stroke, or the noise and smell anymore than anyone else. However I don't think that's enough at this point in time to justify a 4 stroke for long-term foreign port cruising. Even in the US, in my marina and sailing area less than 5% of the outboards I see are 4 stroke. It only makes sense that parts availability would based on demand, so...just another man's opinion. Steve Caneen 31-246 From: Joanne Ross Received: 8/29/2002 9:57:58 AM steve, how many island packets do you see in your cruising area? just a thought joanne ross mach turtle From: Alex Bell Received: 8/30/2002 7:10:08 PM My experience with 4 stroke engines does not make me a fan of the breed. We have two Honda 8 hp 4 stroke engiines and a 4 hp Mariner 2 stroke engine. Both Hondas have had troubles with the fuel system and the mechanic said that it's essential to add gas preservative to keep the fuel from gumming up in the carbruator. Since the jets are so small, they're prone to problems. The suggestion to disconnect the gas line and let the engine run out of gas each time we use it did not work. The mechanic said there was stlll some gas in the bowl that would gum up the low speed jets. On the other hand, the Mariner was gassed up in May, 1999, sat till December of 2000, then was shipped along with our little Newport 17 and my Jeep across country from Colorado to NC. It sat with that same tank of gas till two weeks ago when I got desperate for a motor that would work. After remembering to turn on the gas on the built in tank, it started on the third pull. Which is quite an endorcement for the ole two stroke. Rib Inflatables From: Author Unknown Received: 3/26/1999 1:00:21 PM Thinking of buying an 8'6'' caribe RIB but only have a 29IP. Deflated will it be hard to stow in the aft cabin and might it fit in the lazaretto which is mostly empty? I'm going to see them Sunday at Defender. There having a big four day sail this weekend. Theres also a hugh list of discontinued of blemished products which can be viewed on their web site at www.defenderus.com. Any opinions appreciated. From: Jason Duncan Received: 3/26/1999 7:06:16 PM Sailorboy, Don't know about the Caribe, but consider getting an Avon Roll-Away. We have a big 3.5 meter model, and it will roll up into a nice ball and fit into a car trunk. I'm sure one of their smaller models would be even more manageable. If you never had a dinghy before, I think you'll find it one of the best investments you'll ever make for your boat. I can't believe we went so long w/o one. They are a bit of a hassle, but well worth it! ------Jason S/V Truelove IP-45-28 From: Charles I. Malme Received: 3/27/1999 7:44:52 AM SAILORBOY- I am planning to get a Bombard Model AX3001 RIB for use on my IP-29. This is an 8'6 RIB that has a folding transom. The size when folded is 5'9 X 1'8 X 1'. The weight is only 68 lbs. It has a cover for carrying in the folded condition. In checking out the dimensions of my foredeck, it looks like it can be lashed down on the front end of the cabin between the staysail traveller and the staysail boom. There should be enough clearance to allow the staysail to be used with the RIB in this position. Alternatively, it should fit in the quarter berth with room to spare. Chuck Malme IP-29-16, SKYA III From: Author Unknown Received: 3/30/1999 12:02:50 AM I WISH I HAD SEEN YOUR RESPONSE BEFORE I WENT TO DEFENDER ON SUNDAY. WE LOOKED AT ALL THE MODELS IN THEIR CATALOG BUT NEVER REALIZED BOMBARD MADE A FOLDING RIB. AFTER HOURS OF COMPARING WE WOUND UP WITH AN ACHILLES 8.8 ROLLAWAY WITH AN AIR FLOOR. CHOOSE THIS OVER AVON BECAUSE THEIR AIR FLOOR IS NOT HYPOLON. IF YOUR GOING TO SPEND THE EXTRA MONEY FOR HYPOLON I FEEL THE ENTIRE PRODUCT SHOULD BE MADE OF THE MATERIAL. BUT IF I CAN GET MY HANDS ON A FOLDING RIB I'M TEMPTED TO TAKE THE 3 HOUR DRIVE BACK TO DEFENDER. I'LL CHECK ON TUESDAY FOR A BOMBARD DEALER IN THE NEW YORK AREA ON TUESDAY. Tenders/Dinghys From: Jeffrey A. Bernel Received: 5/7/2002 10:24:51 AM Hi, I am a bit stumped on making a purchasing decision on dinghy for my IP 420. I have narrowed down my choices to: 1) 9'6 RIB - kind of like the AB, but am interested in your comments and experiences with RIBs; makes, size, type of outboard and HP. 2) A 10' Trinka, www.trinka.com, rowing/powered dinghy. It is really a nice looking dinghy that seems to be pretty rugged and stable. I won't say price is not an object, but it is down the list. I will probably install Kato Davits this summer. Knowing this is all a compromise, I would really appreciate your comments, pros and cons. Thanks Jeff Bernel Irish Belle IP-420-65 From: Jaime Ramon Received: 5/7/2002 10:37:38 AM Jeff, Looks like the two styles you are looking at both have hard bottoms. Taking that into account means you would put either one on deck during extended crossing so that should be taken into consideration Do yourself a favor and borrow a friends Trinka then jump in the water and try to get back in it (preferably by yourself), then do the same with the RIB. You will decide rather quickly which ones for you. I do like the looks of the Trinka and the ability to sail and row it are great advantages. We are swimers/divers/snorklers and found getting in and out of the RIB to be alot easier. Not to mention that my 3 & 6 year old crew like the planning capabilities ob the RIB. Main draw back we found with the RIB is the additional caution one must have with hooks and other sharp objects when we are out fishing. Jaime Ramon, NOONTIDE IP-38-98 From: Robert Wilson Received: 5/7/2002 1:09:33 PM At Annapolis last October I seriously interviewed purveyors of dinghies. Since that time I inquired from current cruisers their likes and dislikes, and what seemed to be the ideal. Based on that I ordered a 10.3 (10x) Caribe. The Trinka is a phenomenal boat, however practicality suggested to
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 59 of 62 Tenders/Dinghys go with an inflatable. Tom Neale bought a Trinka, enjoyed it for a year, and had it up for sale in Annapolis. The inflatable ribs won out over the soft-bottoms except in the weight category. They plane easier, are more rugged, but do not store (exept on davits) and are heavier. The 10x Caribe gave us an ideal size for two persons cruising...fits well on davits, will plane easily with our 15hp Mercrury which gets you places quicker (storm, or time). Cruisers indicate smaller than 10' can get wet and cramped when carrying things back and forth. Large tubes keep you drier and the larger ribs are too big (weight, storage). With engines the 5-9.9 hp work, but those having smaller engines would go to the 15hp if they changed (planing, speed and cost differential is not that much). The AB was nice, and for us in the hunt, but overall we went with the Caribe ($2400), Mercrury 15hp ($1600). Hope this helps. Robert Wilson Gypsy Common IP-38 Atlanta From: island packet Received: 5/7/2002 9:39:17 PM Jeff, I would reccomend an RIB. Very versatile little boats. Thay are hard to store on deck. Our RIB is a quicksilver, and although its still going strong, we have had a fair amount of trouble with it. The paint on the hypalon delaminated, the valves in the tubes ocassionally leak, oars/oarlocks not well designed, patches/fittings have had to be redone. I will not get a quicksilver again. Mitch Massie IP-420-73 Reflection From: Steve Weiser Received: 5/7/2002 11:00:40 PM Jeff...take a hard look at Aquapro...inflatables made in New Zealand with an aluminum bottom...much, much lighter than any other RIBs out there, but seem to be durable. I don't own one, but have friends cruising on an IP-40, currently in Panama, with one and they have had good experience with it. Here's their website: http://www.aquapro.co.nz/ Regards, Steve Weiser IP-40-93 EMILY Towing a Dinghy From: Bruce Gregory Received: 2/10/2001 12:17:00 AM Dick- If nobody comes up with a resource then let me leave you with the following thoughts: 1. If you have a choice, always choose a 2 point floating bridle, (the key word here being 'floating') 2. While towing, try to position the midship point of the dink just forward of your second trailing stern wave. 3. If seas are building try to get the dink on the deck early and lash it well. 4. Never back up !@#$%^&*() unless you have met the requirements of No. 1. Fair winds and calm seas, Bruce Gregory, IP-32-84 Morning Star Trinka 10' Sailing Dinghy From: Nick Stone Received: 8/2/2000 8:36:24 PM Packeteers! Seem to remember a thread awhile back regarding Trinka sailing dinghies. I have a friend who just bought a used 42' Krogen with a 10' Trinka dinghy on the sun deck. It has never been used! Being a stickpot fan, he is looking to buy an inflatable with an O/B. He wants to sell the Trinka. It has varnished teak floorboards, is self bailing, a stainless lifting point system, sails that have never been used and a navy sunbrella boat and spar cover. The Trinka is with the Krogen in Ft. Pierce FL. Owner is will to deliver any where in FL, GA, SC or NC. Replacement cost over $4,000. He is selling for $2,300. If interested, e mail Leroy Skipper, [email protected] Nick Stone IP-31 # 178 From: Howard S/V Second Chance Received: 8/3/2000 8:10:42 AM In a message dated 8/2/00 8:36:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << I have a friend who just bought a used 42' Krogen with a 10' Trinka dinghy on the sun deck. It has never been used! Being a stickpot fan, he is looking to buy an inflatable with an O/B. He wants to sell the Trinka. It has varnished teak floorboards, is self bailing, a stainless lifting point system, sails that have never been used and a navy sunbrella boat and spar cover. The Trinka is with the Krogen in Ft. Pierce FL. Owner is will to deliver any where in FL, GA, SC or NC. Replacement cost over $4,000. He is selling for $2,300. If interested, e mail Leroy Skipper, [email protected] Nick Stone IP- 31 # 178 >> Nick: Estimated weight of the Trinka? Howard Second Chance Tartan T3500 #98 Trinka 10' Sailing Dinghy (135 Lbs) From: Butler Smythe Received: 8/3/2000 8:19:53 AM Howard, 135 in the TRINKA Brochure. The 8' which we have is about 85. I'd take the 10 in a heart beat if we didn't have the 8. I love the 8 but the 10 is faster, etc. I row it only, my choice cause alone I can row it almost as fast as a 2HP can move it. ( I also have all the sail stuff to and they sail great. Mark Johannsen make a beautiful boat!! My humble opinion. vr, Butler Smythe From: Howard S/V Second Chance Received: 8/3/2000 10:42:18 AM Butler: Thanks for the info on the Trinka. Sounds like a great little boat, but we'd prefer something lighter, or, a Gozzard 44 with built-in davits at the transom to lift the ding. Maybe next year. Howard From: Butler Smythe Received: 8/3/2000 10:55:44 AM Can always put it on one of the many Stainless Davits that swing in when not in use (Kato and Ocean Marine are but two). Just a thought.. We leave ours on davits even in the winter (w/cover). vr, Butler Smythe From: Steve Caneen Received: 8/3/2000 12:22:18 PM Howard, You sure know how to stir the pot! Gozzard 44 must be about $500k as they want $275k for a 37!! She ain't that much better than an IP-420, if at all. FWIW. Steve Caneen 31-246 From: Bill Langlois Received: 8/3/2000 2:46:37 PM The Gozzard with an enclosed pilot house is a great boat in cold climates. We saw them in the North Channel last Fall. Bill Langlois s/v Hope IP-35-164 From: Howard S/V Second Chance Received: 8/3/2000 3:28:51 PM In a message dated 8/3/00 12:22:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << oward, You sure know how to stir the pot!
3/23/2004 10:27:14 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 60 of 62 Trinka 10' Sailing Dinghy (135 Lbs) Gozzard 44 must be about $500k as they want $275k for a 37!! She ain't that much better than an IP-420, if at all. FWIW. Steve Caneen 31- 246 >> Steve: We have a beautiful new (1999) Tartan T3500. Our current schedule only permits coastal cruises of about one week's duration, and our boat is great for this. She's very managable for the two of us, has a very seakindly motion, is quick and responsive. Fully equipped with various interior and exterior options and electronics, she cost about $230K. We've been thinking about our future cruising plans, when we can head out for weeks at a time, and have concluded that while she's great for now, a heavier displacement blue water boat with a cutter or ketch rig may be what we want, as speed will be less essential (while still desirable) than safety, comfort, maintainability, and seaworthiness in heavy weather. At the boat shows, we've been very impressed by IPs, Shannons, Cabo Ricos, Swans, Valiants, and the other usual suspects, but we absolutely loved the Gozzard 44. You've got to go aboard one and talk to Ted Gozzard in order to appreciate his design philosophy and craftsmanship. I'm not plugging Gozzard, just making an observation. The IPs, in fact represent extraordinary value at a far lower cost than the others I've mentioned above, but the boat must appeal to the Admiral as well, cause if Momma ain't happy, aint nobody happy. The G44 is a very expensive, but idiosyncratic boat that folks either love or hate on the basis of the interior plan. Great for a cruising couple, not so great for taking the grandkids along. One of our greatest concerns, for example, was the traveler in the cockpit, just forward of the helm. In my opinion, this is convenient, but quite dangerous, particularly with inexperienced sailing guests or children around. Another was the choice of certain components such as Westerbeke over Yanmar. On the other hand, the G44 comes fully equipped with just about everything one could want, included in its price, so its important to do an apples for apples comparison with others, for price. At any rate, we're open, which is why we lurk on several Sailnet conversation groups besides Tartan. Thanks for your comments. Howard From: Steve Caneen Received: 8/3/2000 5:23:47 PM Howard, Thanks for the imput. Ive been on most of the other boats you metioned although never on a Gozzard. Weren't they associated with Bayfield prior to forming Gozzard? A Bayfield 40 looks pretty similar, there is one in our marina owned by an Ontario couple. Steve Caneen 31- 246 From: Howard S/V Second Chance Received: 8/3/2000 8:24:35 PM Steve: Could be, but I'm not sure. Gozzard is up in Ontario. Family business, with everyone playing a role. Very nice people. Howard From: Al & Maire Pollick Received: 8/5/2000 11:48:12 PM Howard: I agree with Steve C. in spades re the IP over the Gozzard plus all of the others you mentioned including the Shannon. Why do you think IP keeps winning Boat of the Year, along with VALUE OF THE YEAR? We looked into all of the above during the years we were looking for our livaboard retirement boat which would be able to take us ANYWHERE and be a livable home at the same time. At the time we owned quite a lovely home on the South shore of Long Island, plus a 1968 Morgan 30, (Charlie Morgan designed and built and, as far as I am concerned) such a great boat that I would have started out our retirement on her, including having to pump water and haul ice etc. That is until I went to a boat show in Norwalk,Conn. and went aboard an IP. Until then no one could have traded me away from my Morgan , for her livability. Others wouldn't have traded her for her speed...she was silky,fast.Once I met the IP Howard I never looked back and how very happy I am. We have lived full-time on our 35 since June of '92. We have been stationary for the past two years in Vero Beach, Florida at a dock, but from '92 thru '97 we traveled the waterway. Yes, we motored most of the way on the waterway; and most of the way on outside passages too. Not all of the time, but MOST of the time, as our friends who are true passagemakers (like around the world) tell us they end up doing (or floating) most of the time. But, Howard, you are in my opinion barking up the wrong tree with those other boats. Consider this: We bought our 35 in '91 preowned, have lived on her for almost 10 years, have definitely taken care of her and added some value enhancing items to her but can now sell her for more than we paid for her. By the way we lived next door to a Gozzard for a time a few years ago and there is no way I would consider an even trade for my boat with one of those boats. By the way Howard, just a friendly joust for sure, but for someone who seemed to think we were spending too much time on Coffee and Kitties, YOUR ADMIRAL seems to carry a lot of weight. Has she ever been on an IP? Also Howard, I'm a bit behind the times I know but can't resist commenting that you had the most messages in our group in the count shown recently. It would seem you are quite interested in the IP? By the way, know and respect Tartans. Maire Maire's Drummer, IP-35- #43(1989) From: Howard S/V Second Chance Received: 8/6/2000 9:13:12 AM Maire: I AM interested in IPs, which is why I hang around the IP discussion group. I'd like to learn more about the problems that IP owners have experienced as well as the pleasures. I also tune in to the various other Sailnet groups for the same reasons. I'm simply saying that both spouses should agree on the boat selection, just as they should on the purchase of a home. We don't intend to sell our home and live aboard the boat, but we do intend to take some fairly long cruises, and the esthetics and eye appeal of the boat are important to us, as well as its strength and seaworthiness. Thanks for your observations on the IP. Howard From: Bill Langlois Received: 8/7/2000 1:02:00 PM To keep in perspective how wives feel about Island Packets, three of the IP-35's we looked at were taken off the market because the wives changed their minds and did not want to sell. Bill Langlois s/v Hope IP-35-164 From: Peyton & Ruth Perkins Received: 8/8/2000 10:52:30 PM Not only are they more expensive, the accomodations are horrible in comparison to the IP (IMHO). Peyton Perkins From: Howard S/V Second Chance Received: 8/9/2000 9:52:43 AM In a message dated 8/8/00 10:52:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Not only are they more expensive, the accomodations are horrible in comparison to the IP (IMHO). >> Peyton: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks actually like and buy powerboats, kayaks, catamarans, canoes, and even Gozzards. Imagine! Howard
3/23/2004 10:27:15 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 61 of 62 Trinka As Dinghy From: Richard V. Michaels Received: 1/25/1999 7:11:27 PM Concerning buoyancy: Having turtled a 10' Trinka while sailing the dinghy (an uncontrolled gybe on a blustery day) I can assure you that the Trinka won't sink. Concerning climbing aboard: Can be accomplished from the bow or stern even in a swamped boat. (Though it hurts a lot more than pulling yourself over the soft tubes of an inflatable.) Concerning towing: Get the self bailing option (a spring loaded latch in the keel) which clears the boat while towing (or fills the boat if you forget to close it when stopped.) Regards, ------Rich & Nancy Michaels Eventyr - IP-40/129 Trinka Dinghy From: Marc Attaque Received: 2/27/1999 12:26:32 PM Does anyone have any eperinece with a Trinka dinghy. I can see from the literature that they probably row and even sail, but how fast are they with an outboard and are they stable enough for longer picknick trips?
3/23/2004 10:27:15 PM Copyright © 1998-2004 Bruce Gregory, All rights reserved.' Page 62 of 62