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>> Amy Snyder: The information in this podcast is provided for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice. Accordingly, before taking any action based upon such information, you should consult with an appropriate financial, medical, legal, or other professional.
>> Hello, and welcome to Season 2 of the podcast, Navigating the Veterinary Profession. We're you're hosts, Amy Snyder --
>> Amanda Bates: Amanda Bates.
>> Andrew Rotz: And Andrew Rotz.
>> Amy Snyder: We're so excited to be back for Episode 1 of Season 2. Welcome back to campus, all of our DVM students. And to our new students in particular, welcome to NC State. We're excited to have you here. So, to kick off our first episode of Season 2, we thought we would cover some life hacks. So just going around the table; talking a little bit about sort of the things that we do, and ways we can help you survive the next six months to a year of veterinary school.
>> Andrew Rotz: Hopefully longer than that.
>> Amy Snyder: [Laughs] hopefully longer.
>> Andrew Rotz: But the minimum bar is at least getting you through this academic year. After that, it's up to you.
>> Amy Snyder: Yeah. There you go. So, all right. Where should we start?
>> Amanda Bates: I guess I'll kick things off. So, we're talking life hacks today. And so when I think about this, I think about what are the things you can do while you are a veterinary student that can prepare you to be a professional out in the field? And so I work with students all the time, and one of the things I like to tell students is you know what? What you're doing here can really apply out into the real world. And so we're not living in a sequestered world, right? What we're learning should be applicable, and it isn't just your medical knowledge. And so, one of the things I wanted to highlight is, it's the beginning of the year. Everyone should be refreshed. If you're a first-year you should be excited. And there are some great opportunities to connect with people in the field. Now, normally I think for many of our students -- and Amy, you can testify to this -- we've got professionals that come in, correct? So when we think about your class, for example, particularly that the first years we'll be going through, you're going to have folks who are currently in practice; who are currently in industry. Who have particular experiences that students can connect with. And so can you talk a little bit about how that's set up?
>> Amy Snyder: Yeah. So the career's a veterinary medicine course, which is a profession year one, fall semester course, is an entire course designed to introduce students to a variety of veterinary professions. Through having professionals in the field come in as part of panel discussions and share their experience. So this is an amazing opportunity for our first-year students to connect with professionals who are in a career path that they think they might be interested in. so we really encourage students to come up after class, meet and greet our speakers, and to provide their contact information so that they can continue the conversation well outside of class and throughout their four years.
>> Amanda Bates: And so, I think that that's an example of networking that's pretty easy for the students, because honestly it's already built in [laughs]. It's part of the class, right? You just have to go to class and there's a professional, right? And that's pretty straight forward. But I also like to think about networking in other opportunities that aren't so confined, if you will. And so even when I look at our own campus, there are so many activities and events that happen here and there are so many professionals that come in, that it shouldn't be set up, you know, for a panel. Now, a panel should be easy. Like, if you're in Dr. Snyder's class, for example; someone is there, you should be able to walk up to that person and talk to them and introduce yourself. But there are other situations, and many of them are social, I would say, that we need to consider. And so I'm going to put in a plug right now because I'm having a massive networking event [laughs]. It's going to be our first one in September -- I believe it's September 5th, which is going to be for our students as well as some of our recent alumni. And so I'm -- I've initially defined recent alumni as 2014 to 2018, but honestly, I'm kind of taking it even a couple years back beyond that. And in that context, people are going to be outside. There are going to be beverages; there's going to be light refreshments, and that's still an opportunity to network. And if you've been here for anymore than two seconds, you know that I talk about the importance of it. Because there's something to connect with people who know what the industry looks like. As amazing as the faculty are, and they are, they are in one segment in academia and for many of our students they're going into private industry. And they are going -- or sorry, they are going into private practice. And so they will be connecting with people from all kinds of backgrounds. And so I'm curious, Amy, even from your own professional background, going back before you were a professor, what were opportunities that maybe you saw at a network, and how did you network when maybe you were a student, or you just came out of vet school?
>> Amy Snyder: Yeah, so the best opportunities that I found for networking as a student, and particularly here, was through involvements in various clubs and having guest speakers who came in through those clubs. So a lot of our clubs will leverage outside experts to come in and speak; great opportunity to connect. The other place that I've continued to make connections throughout my career are any kind of conference that I go to. So a lot of our students will have an opportunity to attend NCVC, which is the North Carolina Veterinary Conference that will occur here in Raleigh the first weekend in November. So it will start November 1, 2, and 3, if I remember correctly. So it's a Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And that is an amazing opportunity to go and meet with veterinary professionals from largely across our state. However, we do draw from other surrounding states as well. So a lot of participants will come from Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee; South Carolina to some extent. So those have been really great opportunities for me.
>> Andrew Rotz: I would just say, the huge value from a venue like that or the event that you're holding here is someone who is looking to kind of dip their toe into the networking and that aspect of career development. That's the perfect place because everybody there is for -- is there for that purpose. It's not like you're inconveniencing them by talking to you -- or talking to them, rather. So, it's absolutely this environment where networking and professional development is cultivated. And that's really important for people who might be a little more introvert to understand. It's like, people are in that room, so you go talk to them. So take advantage of it.
>> Amanda Bates: And one of the things that I always like to do at those conferences as well, if you really want to feel comfortable talking to someone who's there to talk to you, is reach out to the vendors who are in the -- usually the display, or vendor hall, excuse me -- because they are definitely there to talk to you [laughs]. And so they are always interested and that can be a really easy introduction to, you know, starting up some small chat.
>> Amy Snyder: And here's another plug for LinkedIn, if you know who's going to be there, honestly, you can make a connection with them on LinkedIn, which once again, is digital, online networking. And say, "Hey, I'm going to be at the same conference event." Whatever it is, right? Bar Mitzva, I don't care where it is [laughs], but, "I'm going to be there; I would love to take some time to talk to you or just at least connect with you because I'm interested in X, Y, and Z. And so that takes some of the edge off too, because I think what's hard for a lot of students is walking up to someone you don't know, and maybe you just saw them speak and you might even be a little bit intimidated in saying, "Hi, you know, I'm a second year. I'm interested in swine med [laughs]." And the kind of -- you -- I guess for some students they felt like they fumbled their words. But if you already made a pre-introduction, then you've kind of already worked that field, right? So, I would say -- that's my life hack for this session at least, is that you need to take every and any opportunity as a student to network. Whether it's here on campus. Whether it's off campus. Whether it's at a conference. Whether it's at a social event, where there just happens to be a lot of practitioners, that's what you need to do this year.
>> Amanda Bates: Yes. And it's never too early to start. Because we also know that networking leads to a lot of job opportunities, as you get closer and closer to graduation. So building that network early, keeping it going throughout your four years can very much help you as you enter into the next phase. So, I want to talk a little bit about surviving veterinary school in general. So how do we get through the studying and the survival? And I wanted to bring up two books, and I know that you guys don't have a ton of time for reading, but these are two really good resources that talk specifically about study habits and good study habits. The first is a book called "Making it Stick, the Science of Successful Learning." And this one's a little bit longer, but it is evidence-based information on how we learn best and how best to study to retain knowledge long-term. Even better, I have the Cliff Notes version, sort of, so there's another book called, "The New Science of Learning; How to Learn in Harmony with your Brain." This is a much shorter version; a slightly easier read but references a lot of the same information as "Make it Stick." So if you're looking to take a deep dive; "Make it Stick" is wonderful. It talks a little bit more from the education side, so if you are an educator. The new science of learning, the Cliff Notes version, if you will, talks a little bit more specifically about good study habits. Because the reality is that all of you guys are incredibly smart, incredibly capable individuals. But vet school can be a little bit different just in the timing of the information. A lot of information comes at you very, very fast. And so some of the ways you may have studied in the past, may -- you may find aren't quite as effective, given how much information is being thrown at you at any given moment while you're here at veterinary school. So if you're finding yourself in a tough situation, both of these books can be great resources. You can also always reach out to our student services group for more information on study tips and support groups for studying and tutoring and so forth. So that's my big plug for studying. My second thing is scheduling. It's a little bit insane. There's a lot going on at every given moment. There are a lot of due dates. There's going to be quizzes and tests and projects and papers and applications and registrations and club meetings. There's a lot of stuff. So, if I could encourage you to do nothing else, it's to find a system for organizing all of those due dates appropriately, because I'll remind everyone of my favorite statement, "Your lack of planning is not my emergency [background laughter]." So being sure that you're on the ball, that you know what is expected, to know when your assignments are due. To have adequate reminders so that you're not left in that very uncomfortable position of asking for a continuation because a date slipped your mind, is really important.
>> Amanda Bates: So Amy, really what we're talking about is time management to the max.
>> Amy Snyder: To the max.
>> Amanda Bates: Yeah. Because I -- I was laughing because I think about what all the students have to do, but even as a staff, the number of calendars that float around in this place before I can schedule an event [laughs] is a little crazy. And so I can only imagine what it is for the students. So what are some of the things you've seen in the past year or two that you thought to yourself, maybe you shouldn't really plan that so late [laughs]?
>> Amy Snyder: Ooh, that's a really good question. So I think one of the big ones that I find are letters of recommendation for anything. So, whether you're applying for a job. Whether you're applying for a scholarship; some of the third-year students as they look into externships for their fourth year will need letters of recommendation. And our fourth year students, as they look to applying for the match system, will need letters of recommendation. And one of the biggest challenges I find is students asking for a letter from a very trusted advisor or mentor here at the college and waiting too late. And then what happens is either that person has to decline, because they just don't have time. Or, they may do it and may not give you the best letter of recommendation. It may not be quality work because you put them in a bind. So, I always advise asking at least two to four weeks in advance of when those letters of recommendation are due, but that's probably the biggest one I see.
>> Andrew Rotz: On that point, Amy, they're not the only one asking particularly at that point in time. So, a little bit of forethought; a little bit of planning ahead, you might be able to get that professor when they're really energetic and motivated to get these letters done instead of you being the 15th person that's asked them.
>> Amy Snyder: That is an excellent point, Andrew, and particularly when it comes to the match and to scholarship, because it turns out that the match, all the applications are due the same day as well as for scholarships. So your favorite professors who are amazing and wonderful, guess what, lots of people ask them.
>> Amanda Bates: Which then I would like to jump in about match, because if you've got a personal statement or a letter of intent, I'm reading them all at the same time. And when your deadline is what, Wednesday? And you tell me on Monday, you've got to realize, you're not the only one in your class. And so, it's being considerate too. It's being considerate at the time, because ultimately it's actually a favor that's being done by all these individuals. Now, for some of us, it is in our job description [laughs]. But particularly with recommendations, right? You are asking someone to go beyond what they normally do, and their requirements for their job. And so you want to be very respectful about that and you want to honor their time, I think.
>> Andrew Rotz: And I would just say, so, kind of translating this -- this is very much a conversation about your roles and responsibilities while you're here at the college. But this very much translates to the real world. When you're balancing your spouse's career and their needs; your own career and your needs. If you have family; you've got kids, right? Where -- what do the kid's schedules look like? It's about balancing -- you might have a part-time gig, right? This -- these skills -- this ability to manage your time appropriately; prioritize wants versus needs, very important for the rest of your lives. And this is a very safe testing environment to be able to make some mistakes so that when real money; when real lives are on the line -- particularly in this industry because it's healthcare, you're making good decisions because you've got the practice.
>> Amanda Bates: And I was going to say, I love that you say that, because everybody knows I don't respond to emails generally after 5:00. So, as much as I love students, I get them Saturday at 2:00 a.m., that's great; it won't happen until Monday. But it's also respecting what's the work time? And that's kind of my own time management, right? What's work and what's not work.
>> Amy Snyder: Yeah. And having those professional boundaries and starting to set those up early in your career can be really helpful as you transition from a student into a professional, there will always be requests for information outside of business hours. And so sometimes those requests have to be dealt with, especially in emergency situations when patient care is involved. But then what can we say, this is where I'm drying the line in the sand for my professional life. And so as a student, practicing what that looks like and respecting your faculty and your staff members as well, and understanding that as -- we are all here to support you; we are all here to do our best for you. And to help us meet your needs, if we could all just be a little bit more cognoscente of planning ahead, that would be super duper helpful. So, in this whole vein of how we're going to manage our time, I think one of the things that I know the three of us were talking about before we started this podcast in particular, was strategic involvement in extracurricular activities. So, one of the things that is amazing about our campus is that we have so many opportunities to be involved in a wide variety of extracurriculars. But there's also so many opportunities to be involved in extracurricular activities. So what words of wisdom do you guys have about how to make good, strategic choices?
>> Andrew Rotz: I love your word of "strategic" because when I look at it, I look at it through the lens of strategic versus tactical. Strategically, where do you want to be in a specific period of time? Whether that be at graduation, five years after graduation or, you know, however you define that. That is your strategic vision. And then you need to look at the opportunities that are around you and decide tactically which ones to chase, right? Whether that be a specific club or a part-time job, or an internship or. you know, something along those lines; externship. All of those opportunities. Don't just throw money around at these various trips and all that kind of stuff that you could take just willy-nilly. Make sure that you're spending the money and that it will be of strategic value to you to do so, especially if you're using loan money to do that. So, I do like to look at it from the lens of, okay, well what am I trying to do and what's going to help me to get there versus, oh, I just want to do that.
>> Amanda Bates: Yeah, I mean and, you know, I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking, just some of my observations working with students, and one of the challenges I think is balancing the excitement of what's in vet school. The excitement of being here, the excitement of trying all these things, and not, you know, for lack of a better term, FOMO, right? Fear Of Missing Out. And so, you know, you wonder -- and I talk to students all the time, "If I don't do this am I going to miss out? Is this going to be something I need for my career. But then seeing the flipside and working with students and going, "You know, I think you've got a lot on your plate," and about 40% of it at least could be dropped off. And so, looking at to your point, what are the things that are, first of all, going to meet my ultimate goal of being a veterinary professional? And then what are the add-ons that, you know, add -- for me, you know, I'm a counselor, so I'm going to say holistically are part of the things that bring balance to what I enjoy doing in my life and whatever. And I think that might be a little bit of struggle for students, to be honest.
>> Amy Snyder: Yeah. And so we want to definitely encourage everyone to take opportunities where they see them; to explore interest and to develop passions. But then also to step back from time-to-time and just think, how do the extracurriculars and activities that I'm involved with, how do they meet my needs for professional growth and in building my professional identity, or what we sometimes refer to as our professional brand? And then how do they meet my needs as an individual? How do they balance out the other parts of me? And just would encourage you guys to all think about how many clubs you're involved with; what you're doing in each of those clubs and how they are adding to or taking away from and not being afraid to say no. And this is a big part of time management as well. All of us are going to be faced with multiple requests as we move forward in our lives, and learning the polite, strategic way to say no to an opportunity is a really good skill.
>> Andrew Rotz: I think a lot of -- if you look at the quality of your output, that will be a good indicator of if you're taking on too much. If the quality of your school work goes down; if the quality of your relationships decreases. If the quality of your sleep schedule, like all of these things. You guys have a lot going on, so it's a matter of are you biting off too much to be able to chew? And a good indicator of that is again, look at the quality of each of the things that you're doing. And maybe by reducing one activity, by one activity, that will drastically improve the quality across the board of everything else that you're doing. And I think -- to your point about personal brand, Amy, I think quality is, in my opinion, more important than quantity. You want to be doing less, but really good work. And that's going to impress people.
>> Amy Snyder: Agreed. And if you need help making these decisions or need someone to just talk this through, we really encourage you to reach out to any of us, particularly Amanda, or a trusted advisor here at the college. Anyone's going to be happy to sit down and chat. So, as we continue on our journey of life hacks, Andrew, we haven't heard quite enough from you yet about our money life hacks.
>> Andrew Rotz: Yeah.
>> Amy Snyder: So, you know, beginning of the semester; we're starting out fresh. New year. Just got our loan dispersements.
>> Andrew Rotz: So the -- when it comes to money hacks, I always say, try to automate your essential expenses so that they just happen automatically. It takes the thought away from missing payments and all that kind of stuff; it's just less stress. That being said, don't automate things that aren't essential. For those of you who are culprits of constant Amazon shopping, particularly during class; we see you. Maybe, if that's a habit that you're trying to break out of, maybe delete your credit card information from your browser. And that's one more step that you have to go through in order to go do that, you know, that impulse shopping, you have to whip out your credit card or something like that, which is, you know, not exactly sneaky when you're in the middle of class to do. So, that's one thing to do. Other than that, just expenses, right? When it comes to expenses while you're in vet school, try to keep the non- essential; the fun stuff, to a very reasonable budget. $100, maybe $200 a month? A month. Because the things like getting Panera delivered, Grub Hub, ordering pizzas, eating out versus doing some sort of meal planning is one of the major culprits of our entire DVM population. If you are -- have an opportunity to take a look at your lease, right? If it's up for renewal or something, and you're paying more than $800 or $900 a month for rent, you're paying too much. I'm looking at, you know, statistics from the Housing and Urban Development Department of the US Government and looking at WIC county statistics, you shouldn't be paying more than really $800 a month, and I'm including utilities in that number. So, if you're up for a new lease at some point in the near future, maybe it's time to take a look at maybe a different location. Or, you don't really necessarily need the granite countertops, right? So taking a couple, you know, look at a couple of those different items. It might save you $200, $300, $400 a month, which adds up. I tell you what, it adds up. And then the last real money hack that I think about is, when it comes to fun things like trips and vacations, I typically say, don't use loan money to do that if you can avoid it. Because by the time you pay off that loan, let's say you spent $3 grand on a nice trip, by the time you pay off that loan, that trip -- that $3,000 will have been $4,500 bucks; $5 grand. And you're probably not getting $5,000 worth of a trip. So your real total cost of your trip is going to be a lot more if you're using loan money. So I say, hey, do some pet sitting; do some house- sitting, dog walking, whatever you can to scrap up -- scrounge up the money for that trip instead of using loan money if you can -- if you can.
>> Amanda Bates: So I am completely fascinated by something you just said, looking at our student's budgets and the amount of money that's being spent on [laughs] Door Dash and Grub Hub and all those delivery services. And to your point, I took, them all off of my phone. Because here's the reality, when I would sit down and calculate the food, the tax, the delivery fee, all the charges on it --
>> Andrew Rotz: Tip.
>> Amanda Bates: Tip, right? I'm like, this is not $35 of food. This is like $8.75 worth of food. And so, is that -- that's something you're definitely seeing with our students?
>> Andrew Rotz: Absolutely. It's a -- you know, it's a salad that you got from Panera that would cost you $3.50 to go do yourself, but by the time Panera sits it in front of you, it costs you $15.
>> Amanda Bates: And this is not even counting, let's say you still wanted Panera, but you didn't go and drive and pick it up yourself.
>> Andrew Rotz: Well that was -- that $15 is assuming like a delivery fee. >> Amy Snyder: Delivery?
>> Andrew Rotz: Yeah. yeah.
>> Amy Snyder: So, minimizing the apps on our phone to make it easy to spend money [laughs]. Continuing to develop our network of professionals. Reaching out and meeting as many people as we can and continuing to keep those connections going over time. Being strategic in the extracurriculars we decide that we want to be involved in. And then leveraging some resources for good study habits. I think those are our big takeaways. So, remember that we're always here to help you guys out if you have questions or concerns, or want to talk further about any of these topics, never hesitate to reach out with us, otherwise, until next time, take care.
>> Andrew Rotz: have a great semester.
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