DAILY

YOUR VOICE IN PARLIAMENT

THE SECONDTHE SECOND MEETING MEETING OOFF THE THE FIRST FIFTH SESSION SESSION OF THEOF THEELEVEN TWELFTHTH PARLIAMENT PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 20 MARCH 2020

MIXED VERSION HANSARDHANSARD NO. 193196

DISCLAIMER Uno cial Hansard This transcript of Parliamentary proceedings is an uno cial version of the Hansard and may contain inaccuracies. It is hereby published for general purposes only. The nal edited version of the Hansard will be published when available and can be obtained from the Assistant Clerk (Editorial). THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly - Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel - Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) - Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. - President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) - Vice President Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. Mmadinare Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. (Opposition Whip) Tonota Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. Shoshong Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. Ghanzi South Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE FIRST SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT FRIDAY 20TH MARCH, 2020

CONTENTS PAGE (S) MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME...... 3, 10-11

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER...... 4-6

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE...... 7-9

STATEMENT - COVID-19...... 12-17

Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 1 of 2020) Second Reading...... 18-28 Committee Stage...... 29 Third Reading...... 29

BUSINESS MOTIONS...... 28 Friday 20th March, 2020

Friday 20th March, 2020 change your ruling on the basis that he insists that he said that and is Parliamentary. I thank you Mr Speaker. THE ASSEMBLY met at 9:00 a.m. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Leader of the House. No (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) Honourable Members, if you are talking about what P R A Y E R S happened when I was here, I did not rule. The reason was quite simple, that, if anybody thought they could, * * * * through the Clerk, say to the House that I sit there as a puppet to be told by the Clerk how to run the House and MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order! to process that, the first thing ba itse gore ke tswa kwa Honourable Members. Good morning. Let us start the Mapoka, ba ye koo… business of today with Minister’s Questions. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… MR MOATLHODI: Point of procedure. Good MR SPEAKER: I was not ruling, mongwe le mongwe morning Mr Speaker. There was an incident yesterday o na le kwa a tswang teng… Mr Speaker, whereby Honourable Mmolotsi made some utterances, which to me and some of my colleagues HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… appeared very improper. He was speaking to the Clerk and thereafter, he also made some scathing remarks MR SPEAKER: Jaanong fa batho ba sa itse gore ke which to me sounded unparliamentary and very tswa Mapoka, letsatsi le lengwe ba tlaa kopana le dipela unbearable. I prayed for the intervention of the Speaker, di halala… and there was a suggestion from the Leader of House HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… that the copy of the Hansard should be retrieved so that the matter be re-looked into this morning, with a MR SPEAKER: …ba bo ba gakgamala. I understand view of making sure things run Parliamentary. I pray the concern of the House, that if I understand you Mr Speaker, for that activity to be reactivated by your correctly, they felt that the attack was on the official good self. of this House; a Clerk of Parliament. Ka gore ke tswa Mapoka, ke a ikarabela… MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! If I understand you well Honourable Moatlhodi, what was requested to be HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… done …(Inaudible)… the Hansard, was not done. The MR SPEAKER: The Clerk cannot do that, she has not request for the retrieval of the Hansard was not done to chaired. I think Honourable Mmolotsi, to that extent your knowledge, because I was not in the House when Morolong, just withdraw, re tswe mo dilong tse. that request was made. So, I am not sure… MR MMOLOTSI: I withdraw Mr Speaker. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Procedure Mr Speaker. MR MOATLHODI: Further procedure. Mr Speaker, MR SPEAKER: …whether the Clerks did, or they what even broke my heart further, Honourable Mmolotsi were not directed to do it… thereafter, made scathing personal remarks on me, and LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): I felt like… Point of procedure. I think the retrieval of the Hansard HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)… at this point in time is immaterial, in the sense that Rre Mmolotsi ga a ise a ikganetse gore ga a bua jalo. So, MR MOATLHODI: …I could even jump to him and that will be the last resort. The only thing that we have physically confront him. requested the then Speaker, was to go and meet you HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… because you have ruled, to say there is a concern and ensure that when we come today, Rre Mmolotsi as we MR MOATLHODI: I felt very bad, more so that, heard him, should be requested to withdraw. Unless he Honourable Mmolotsi is my child, I taught him politics, argues that he did not say that, that is when we would be I brought him up but it was as good as insulting me pushed to a point where we need the record. Otherwise, yesterday. I would need him to account to that Mr we have not reached that point yet. Is either he confirms Speaker. Standing Order 58.11 if you could allow me to he said it, and you still rule in the same way, or you read it Mr Speaker…

Hansard No 196 1 Friday 20th March, 2020

MR SPEAKER: Please do. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi, ke go utlwile, I will come back to you. I was asking the other Members MR MOATLHODI: Thank you sir. Standing Order who were here so that if it is possible, we can take a 58.11 Mr Speaker and Honourable Members has this shorter route to this problem. Honourable Members! to say, “all Members shall conduct themselves with appropriate decorum, and in a manner that upholds MR KAPINGA: Procedure Mr Speaker. Thank you very the image, dignity and standing of the House.” What much Mr Speaker. I would like to make a suggestion that Honourable Mmolotsi said to me yesterday, I even fell perhaps the Speaker could call Honourable Moatlhodi from my bed last night Mr Speaker… and Honourable Mmolotsi to his office, and try to resolve the matter outside this House. It would seem it is HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… going to require protracted discussion which may delay MR MOATLHODI: …I slept very improperly, and I our business in the House. Thank you Mr Speaker. would pray for intervention. MR SPEAKER: I was looking for a short way out. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… Obviously, because Honourable Mmolotsi says he did not say anything which is objectionable, ga ke a utlwa MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, ope wa batlotlegi yo o neng a le teng a re ene o utlwile the Standing Order read to us ought to be unnecessary. sengwe, I have to call upon Honourable Moatlhodi Remember what I asked when we began this Parliament, before I direct what I think ought to be done. that as far as I can tell looking around here, ga gona HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… ope mo go lona yo e seng ngwana wa Motswana, a godisitswe ka Setswana. Ga re tlhokane le the Standing MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, Orders go nna le maitseo, re kwalelwa melawana gore SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR nna motho, itseye ka setho. I do not think we need that. RAKGARE): Procedure. Thank you very much Mr It was written to be enforced, but we should be above Speaker. Gone mme e tlaabo e se gone gore e felele that ourselves. Honourable Mmolotsi, I do not want fela koo, go botlhokwa gore e tle mo Palamenteng. Ke whatever was said yesterday to be repeated. If what raya gore batho ba ba tshwanang le rona le Honourable Honourable Moatlhodi is complaining about being said Motsamai, ba e leng gone re tlang mo Palamenteng, by you is too heavy, and you remember it, please let us Honourable Mmolotsi and Honourable Moatlhodi have have peace and withdraw, re tle re tswelele sentle, re dire been in Parliament before, ba itse tsamaiso, jaanong tiro e re e romilweng kwano. Let us not create bumps most of us are still learning. Re tshwanetse go tla go and humps tse di sa tlhokafaleng along the routes. utlwa gore go tsamaile jang, mme fa go na le lefoko la kgalemo gape, re itse gore e se ka ya nna e kete dikgang MR MMOLOTSI: Mr Speaker, as for Honourable re di feleletsa kwa ntle, mme di simologile gone fa. Ke Moatlhodi, there is nothing to apologise because I a leboga. did not say anything wrong to him. He is the one who was attacking me and he has a tendency of attacking MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, there is no point other Honourable Members. I think what Honourable of procedure in what you have raised. I have not said Moatlhodi should remember is that he is here as a anything about how this matter can be handled. I am Member of Parliament, not as our father or our God. So, giving Honourable Moatlhodi the option to comment so for him to say that I should apologise for saying that he that I can then give direction. Honourable Moatlhodi, should not attack me; I cannot do that. ngwana wa gago o ganne. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, should I say that you did not attack Honourable Moatlhodi? Ke ao MR MOATLHODI: Mr Speaker, ke kopa fela gore o Honourable Moatlhodi, whoever was in the House, ikgotsofatse, e bile o kgotsofatse Ntlo le tsamaiso. Ke whether in your opinion there was something said kopa gore go and ask our able staff to retrieve a copy by Honourable Mmolotsi which was contrary to the of the Hansard and look at it yourself. After that, you Standing Orders. can say to me, “no, o iphetlhela Honourable Mmolotsi,” kana Honourable Mmolotsi o a go iphetlhela.” Ga ke HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… bone gore o kare at my age, ga a ntshale morago, nnake

2 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

yo o ntshalang morago ke wa 1953; o kgakalakgakala, (ii) what measures has the ministry put in place to ka bo ke ka iphetlhela ngwana. No! ke ngwana mo go reduce the number of lives lost in these swimming nna, ga ke ka ke ka mo iphetlhela. pools; and

MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, we have (iii) when will the Minister make it mandatory business on the table. The Hansard will be retrieved, for public facilities, hotels and lodges to have if Honourable Moatlhodi can give us guidance about permanent, trained and qualified life guards at what time this was said as I was not in the House. The their swimming pools. Hansard can be retrieved as quickly as possible gore re tle re e lebelele. I said to Honourable Rakgare, that there MR T. LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): Thank you was no procedure because it is only now that I am giving very much Honourable Speaker and good morning. directions for the retrieval of the Hansard to be brought Mr Speaker, I am ready to proceed with the question, to me as the Speaker to deal with it as Speaker and I but I also noticed that the Honourable Minister does will deal with it as a Speaker and only a Speaker, e seng not appear to be in the House. I am wondering if it is motshereganyi ka kwa ntle ga Ntlo e. prudent to still proceed. Please provide some guidance.

ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL MR SPEAKER: I certainly cannot answer the question. AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC I am not sure whether the Leader of Government ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Business o itse gore Tona o kae. Procedure Mr Speaker. Ke batla go itse gore fa LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Yes Mopalamente a emelela, a bo a bua gore ga a batle go Mr Speaker. Normally when the Minister is not around, tshosediwa, e bile o tshosediwa ke Mopalamente yo there is someone acting for him, unless if he is not also mongwe, are those words parliamentary or not? Maybe around. Normally, ke Rre Shamukuni; ga ke itse gore a ga go tlhokafale gore ye kwa Hansard ka gore re a o teng ka gore ke tsene kwa moragonyana. utlwile a buiwa ke Rre Mmolotsi mo Palamenteng. HONOURABLE MEMBER: A re ga a tsoga sentle. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, now you are making my job very difficult. I asked here if there was MR TSOGWANE: Honourable Shamukuni le ene ga any Member of this House who heard what Honourable a yo? Gatwe botlhe ga ba a tsoga sentle. Ke a leboga. Mmolotsi is complaining about, and nobody stood. MR SPEAKER: Motho wa ga Maila, o kare re na le Hence, by then demanding that we must go to the mathata. Tona le mothusi wa gagwe ga ba yo, le yo go Hansard. That was a ruling by me. Therefore, I am not neng go itsiwe a ka mo thusa le ene ga a yo. Ntleng fa e going to answer you. I have made a ruling and that is le gore ba ka tla re ise re fetse dipotso, we will certainly what we are going to do. afford you the opportunity to do that.

MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, NATURAL RESOURCES CONSERVATION AND TOURISM THEME: AUDIT REPORT AT THE MINISTRY OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND THEME: REGULATIONS FOR USE OF CULTURE DEVELOPMENT SWIMMING POOLS IN HOTELS AND LODGES IN BOTSWANA To ask the Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development to state: To ask the Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation and Tourism to apprise this Honourable (i) the veracity of audit queries of the Ministry House on pieces of legislation or regulations guiding the of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture use of swimming pools in hotels and lodges in Botswana Development stated in the Audit Report dated and to further state: 17th November, 2017;

(i) how many people, children in particular, have (ii) whether the Minister has addressed the audit lost lives due to drowning in swimming pools in queries taking into account that they have financial Botswana hotels and lodges over the last 3 years; implications and Government continues to pay.

Hansard No 196 3 Friday 20th March, 2020 QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

MR M. S. MOLEBATSI (MMADINARE): Good the Reparations Committee of Batswana of Namibian morning Mr Speaker. Once again, the Minister is not Descent to the Government of Botswana on the issue. ready, I will later date it. Thank you. We have met on several occasions on this issue.

Later Date. The above notwithstanding, the Government of Botswana wishes to state the following: QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER • It expresses sympathy for what the affected GENOCIDE NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE communities went through in their history and for GERMAN GOVERNMENT AND AFFECTED the scars that continue to pass through the subsequent COMMUNITIES AND/OR GOVERNMENTS generations;

MR K. C. HIKUAMA (NGAMI): To ask the Minister • The United Nations (UN), and subsequently the of International Affairs and Cooperation if she is aware German Government, have only recognised that the of the genocide negotiations between the German acts of genocide took place in Namibia; Government and the affected communities and/or Governments; and if so, to state: • It also recognises the importance of accountability and redress for gross human rights violations in the (i) the Government’s position on the negotiations healing process of injuries suffered and indignities in relation to the victims of German colonial endured as a result of the atrocities committed on the genocide who are currently citizens of Botswana; affected communities; and • We encourage the affected communities to continue (ii) if there are individuals or groups of Botswana their engagement with the German Government, citizens who showed some interest, or claimed through the process which has already been a stake in the negotiations and if yes, how the established by the Government of Namibia, for a Botswana Government is assisting or intends to negotiated settlement, especially that communities facilitate their full participation in the negotiations. like the Ovaherero in Namibia still have strong MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND historical, cultural, and tribal link to the Ovaherero COOPERATION (DR DOW): Thank you Mr Speaker. in Botswana. First of all Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to Botswana remains available to support the effort within apologise to the House, to yourself and to the asker of the parameters of its policies and laws. I thank you Mr the question for failing to be in Parliament yesterday Speaker. morning to answer this question. I had determined that the quorum was okay, and had not really realised that I MR HIKUAMA: Supplementary. Ke a utlwa Tona e was on the Order Paper. So, my apologies to the House bile ke a leboga for your brief answer to this. A mme sir. gone mo bathong ba lefatshe la gago la Botswana ba ba amegang mo dilong tse, ba na le formal structures that The Government of Botswana is aware of the genocide are negotiating or that are trying to pursue the matter or negotiations between the German Government and the just individuals coming to office? affected communities and/or Governments. DR DOW: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker. Boammaaruri ke The Government of Botswana has taken a decision not gore ga ke itse thata gore bone ba ithulagantse jang kwa to be involved at the level of a negotiating party in this ntle. Se ke se itseng ke gore ba ba tlileng kwa go rona e effort. The reason is that the matter is of a bilateral nature ne e le setlhopha. Fa e le gore o bua ka constitution or between two sovereign states; Namibia and Germany. how they are constituted, eo ga re e itse. E ne e le batho We have encouraged the affected communities to work ba ba neng ba supa gore ke bana ba bana ba batho ba ba with the other affected tribes in Namibia to pursue neng ba tsogelwa ke dikgoberego tse tsa kwa Namibia, the issue. To this end Mr Speaker, we have facilitated e le kgatelelo le polao ya kgailo ya Jeremane. Se re se meetings of Reparations Committee of Batswana of utlwang ke gore go na le diphuthego tse di farologanyeng Namibian Descent with their Namibian counterparts e bile kwa ntle go na le ba ba dumelang gore ba bue in Namibia. There have also been representations from jaana le ba ba batlang go ya court. Go re bone kwa ntle

4 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

ba ipopile jang, ga re itse. Ba ba tlang kwa go rona fa ba Mothusa Tautona mme kana kgang e re buang ka yone batla go kopana le ba Namibia, we facilitate them le fa fa gongwe o fitlhela e le ya batsadi ba rona, ba re nnang ba ile gone kwa, our Mission o tsamaya le bone. le bone fa molelong, ba le mo Botswana go sena gore re ka e itlhokomolosa ka tsela e e ntseng jang. A o raya gore Thulaganyo le tumelo ya rona ke gore boitlamo jwa go maswe thata gore fa ba re botsa gore go akanngwa Mmuso wa Botswana ke gore re thuse ka fa re ka thusang jang ka bone, batsadi ba bone ba tlhokafetse, re bo re ba ka teng mme re lebile melao ya rona. Re belaela gore re raya fela re re ba tlhokafetse, re lese fela jalo? Re se ka ka thusa fela thata ka go fa gore ke bo mang ka gore ba ra botsa gore Goromente ene a reng? Yone position e o na le dikgwetlho tsa bone le gore ba tlile leng. We make e buang eo… historical records available for the use by these groups but in terms of how the groups are constituted, ke bone MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Motsamai, I ba ka re bolelelang. Tanki. thought the Leader of the House was saying he is becoming uncomfortable if questions are going to elicit MR TSOGWANE: Procedure. You will guide me an answer which can be read as meaning the Botswana Mr Speaker. I am not too learned in the affairs of the Government has taken a position on this or that, when Ministry of Foreign Affairs, so she is better placed the Government has actually not. That I understand but to address some of the issues. I feel very much on the other hand I did not understand so far that, that uncomfortable if we would entertain questions of this is what Honourable Hikuama wants to know. He does nature which are dealing with the relations of other not want to incriminate this Government, he just wants countries, their nationalities and how they were treated to know whether Batswana who descended from our in the past. Tomorrow we will be asked about the ancestors who were in Namibia, then German West have genocide in Burundi and I am not so sure whether we approached Government, go dirwa eng? That I find in will be able to answer in the same manner because I can order and I am quite sure the Minister of Foreign Affairs still remember at some point, the Namibians wanted to is quite capable to deal with it. come and meet the President. I do not know whether it was by then President Khama, but I suppose. They MR HIKUAMA: I think you answered part of what I wanted to come and meet the President on this issue but wanted to say because I just wanted to tell the Leader we discussed it at Cabinet and it was dissolved that we of the House that it is not a question of making the should not entertain that because these are nationals of Government account for anything here that happened other countries. This is beyond our borders. If we can but it was a question of Botswana Government assisting go and account for issues that happened and are being its citizens to pursue justice for what they feel they pursued beyond our borders, this is a weighty matter, had been done by the German Government. It was it is not simple. These records and responses that we not a question of whether the Government is going to are giving here will be taken further than what we quarrel or make a case with the Germans. Maybe he could have imagined and be used maybe somewhere as misunderstood the whole thing and I do not think there witness of a position. I do not think the Government has was any procedure that has been flouted like you would established a position yet because it has never handled have rightly said. How the Minister responded to the that case. I feel very much uncomfortable. I thank you question, I think it is in order and I got what I wanted Mr Speaker. to hear. Maybe further to that, it is to ask the Minister whether the Government is prepared to give logistical HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further supplementary. assistance to the citizens of the country? I am talking MR SPEAKER: What are you supplementing because about the citizens, not the Namibians, Leader of the this is question time? House.

MR MOTSAMAI: Supplementary. Ke tshogile. Kana DR DOW: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. In go na le ba bangwe fa ba… ke itse gore o romile mongwe answer to that question, let me make three clear facts for ka kwano gore a nne a mpaya fa fatshe but do not worry, the record; the people we are talking about are a group I will deal with him. of Botswana citizens with interests in another country. As a result of that, we are the gateway as the Ministry HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… of Foreign Affairs for us to facilitate that. Secondly, the UN has already established as a matter of fact that MR MOTSAMAI: Mr Speaker, re a tlhaloganya

Hansard No 196 5 Friday 20th March, 2020 QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

genocide occurred, so we are not quarrelling about a tlhaloganyang dilo ka teng gore go ka bo go diragetse whether it happened or did not happen, it is not for us. jang. Honourable Minister, I know that you do not know what I know, so o kwa morago, butle! You see in your Three; we have undertaken within the parameters of Order Paper, that after this question number four, there our law and our policies to assist the group. What does is a statement by the Leader of Opposition. Ke sone se that mean? They came to the ministry and said, “we ke reng, I know you do not know what I know, so butle! would like to make a trip to Namibia. We are a group with a special interest,” just like a group of artists for HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)... example, or lawyers, or journalists, who are saying, “we are a group, would you facilitate us? For us to be more MR SPEAKER: Ga a kwa morago thata, ka re ga a itse effective, we need your assistance.” I am just making se nna ke se itseng. this example that we do deal with groups who come HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)... to us and say, “will you facilitate communication with people outside?” We said, “yes, we cannot pay for your MR SPEAKER: Ga a ka ke a bala dilo tse a sa di travel but we can make a mission available for you to itseng, le raya jang? It is just that he does not have make the necessary appointments, to attend with you that knowledge, that is why I understand where he and facilitate if you need any recording.” We have done comes from, but ka re, butle! The question I am sure, that. The question is asking whether or not we would will be answered because I spoke to both the Minister go beyond that. I say, I will not commit to that now. responsible and to the Leader of Opposition who asked Let the people come to the office again. We are in the question. That is how I allowed it, because I am sure communication to say, within our policy and rules, and of what they want. in view of the importance of this particular situation, how will we assist. We remain ready to assist within the DR TSHABANG: Procedure. Thank you Mr Speaker. law and our mandate. I thank you Mr Speaker. I am sorry to disturb you, but I had a question yesterday that was put without notice to the Minister of Health. If MR RAKGARE: Procedure. Thank you very much my memory serves me well, we had agreed that it will Mr Speaker. I am really worried Mr Speaker, the come this morning. Ga ke e bone mo Order Paper. It was country is under a possible attack from the COVID-19 supposed to come along with Honourable Hikuama’s pandemic. I see there are a lot of questions coming question. from the opposition. Kana mafatshe a mangwe, the political leadership e tshwaragane to fight this virus. I MR SPEAKER: What you should have done am wondering gore go fitlhelela gompieno, we do not Honourable Dr Tshabang, as soon as you got the have a statement from the opposition; Umbrella for Order Paper, that is where you should have raised your Democratic Change (UDC). We do not have a statement question. Is that a question or a procedure here; there is from the Leader of Opposition in Parliament. There absolutely nothing wrong with the procedure. What you is nothing se ba se buang about the COVID-19 virus. are doing now, you are preventing us from dealing with Mr Speaker, I am really worried because we are not question number four, re reetsa wena. I know what you providing leadership re tshwaragane and golo mo, I do are complaining about but as soon as you get the Order not think go siame. We should be seen as the political Paper, contact the Clerk gore, naare maabane ke ne ke leadership, re kopane gore re bue le setšhaba ka this sa utlwa sentle? pandemic. Ke ne ke ipotsa gore a mme gone go maleba MR TSOGWANE: Procedure. I think maybe gore ba tswelele ba botsa dipotso tse go supafalang because the whole intention is to facilitate Members gore bone ke go botsa dipotso fela? They are not willing of Parliament and help them to get their questions to provide solutions and help the Government to fight. through and be answered. Really, I sympathise with MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, there is the Honourable Member because sometimes this Order absolutely nothing wrong with the procedure. Paper comes very late in the day and we do not even see it. You remember sometimes I phone you very early in HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…. the morning, questioning some of the things which are in the Order Paper. Really, it is an omission which is MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, ga a ka ke a kobiwa ka gore not by himself, maybe it was just by default, but it was o na le kutlwisiso e e sa tshwaneng le ya lona. Ke ka fa agreed. It means when the Order Paper is being prepared,

6 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

no reference is made to what was transited during that am constrained to answer this question. The Ministry of day. Ba ne ba lemogile gore there is a question that has Finance and Economic Development is the coordinating been agreed but you will come tomorrow. Sometimes ministry across all sectors of Government. I have noted we have to sympathise with Honourable Members along the Member’s specificities around the questions that those lines. had been put before me. The schedule that I had over the last two days has not allowed me sufficient time to MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leader of the House, coordinate across all ministries, in order for Government nobody is unsympathetic. I am saying what I think he to present a holistic response given the nature of this ought to have done… (Inaudible)… act to what you pandemic. I would not want to refer to Standing Order should have done. Nobody is unsympathetic because if 37.4, which in itself, prescribes sufficient time for me to indeed the question should have come today, it should have answered this question. I have not been able to get take up that position. Nobody is quarrelling with that hold of the Member as I tried to call him this morning, and Dr Tshabang is quite in order, except if you think to ask that we be consistent, at least as a Government you can stop us from dealing with question four. As from the ministry coordinating both economic policy soon as he saw the Order Paper, he could have said, and the budget, to be able to respond adequately. Thank “can I have an explanation as to why my question is you Mr Speaker. not among these ones?” I thought you are objecting to question number four being dealt with. We will deal MR RAMOGAPI: Supplementary.Thank you very with your issue Honourable Member, let us finish with much Honourable Speaker. The whole objective of the this one and we come to you. question is to sensitise the Honourable Minister on the steps he is intending to take in case this COVID-19 brings QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE the economy into its knees. It is not only to focus on the MR SALESHANDO: Just for the record and as a stated questions but to look into the whole economy, matter of fact, this is the first question on Coronavirus how it is going to affect the economy. Although there from the opposition. Those who say there have been are issues stated like tourism and everything, but I beg many questions, are as usual being mischievous. the Honourable Minister to look into the whole issue of the economy because this is not only the issue of MEASURES IN PLACE TO ADDRESS RISKS tourism, there is also the issue of … FACING BUSINESSES ON ACCOUNT OF MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi, I thought COVID-19 you were asking a supplementary question and not MR D. SALESHANDO (MAUN WEST): asked the quarrelling. Ask a supplementary question. Minister of Finance and Economic Development if MR RAMOGAPI: The issue here that I am putting Government will put in place measures to address risks forward is that, is the Honourable Minister going to look facing businesses, workers and households on account into the whole issue of COVID-19 on how it is going of COVID-19; the Minister must specifically highlight to affect Botswana? What are the possible solutions interventions for: that he is going to take or remedial actions that we will take? That is why I am giving an example on the (i) tourism operators that face mounting cancellation issue of employees. At the end of the day, some of the by international tourists; employees … (ii) staff costs for businesses that may temporarily MR SPEAKER: Honourable Ramogapi, I hear you close down on account of COVID-19; loud and clear and I thought you heard the Minister loud (iii) protection for workers that may be laid off on and clear. The first problem the Minister said is he did account of businesses closure; and not have enough time to contact in his coordinating role, the necessary Government Department that he should (iv) support for households that may lose their income consult. What that tells me is, there is no policy as we and not be able to service their mortgages and speak now…we should pick an answer Honourable other financial commitments to banks. Leader of the House using that one.

MINISTER OF FINANCE AND ECONOMIC Ka mafoko a mangwe, ka Setswana, o tlhokana le gore DEVELOPMENT (DR MATSHEKA): Mr Speaker, I a botse bagabone, a utlwe gore gatweng, a lebile potso

Hansard No 196 7 Friday 20th March, 2020 QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

e. Ga a ise a nne le nako ya go dira jalo. Jalo he, fa UPDATE ON COVID-19 IN RELATION TO o mmotsa o re o tlile go reng, o raya gore a go reye ZIMBABWE AND NEIGHBOURING VILLAGES a re o tlaa reng, a sa kopana le ba bangwe ba a reng DR N. TSHABANG (NKANGE): asked the Minister o tshwanetse gore a kopane le bone? That is how I of Health and Wellness if he is aware of any confirmed understood the Minister. It is still the same he said to COVID-19 cases in neighbouring Zimbabwe and the Honourable Leader of the Opposition; gore ke bona also to update this Honourable House on the state of botlhokwa jwa potso e but I need A, B, C to be able to medical emergency preparedness in the Tutume Sub- answer. I have not done the A, B, C, so I cannot answer District, Maitengwe Border Post, Boteti Sub-District this question. and Matsiloje Border Post. MR RAMOGAPI: Tanki Mr Speaker. Nnyaa, kgang ke ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND gore ene as the driver, kwa ntle ga go botsa ba bangwe, WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Thank you Mr e le ene a tshwereng steering sa economy, a reng pele fa Speaker. Currently, there are no confirmed cases in the a ya go botsa ba bangwe? Ke yone kgang e e re batlang neighbouring Zimbabwe. This is from World Health gore re e tlhaloganye, a mme mo tlhaloganyong ya Organisation (WHO) Situation Report, I have it here and gagwe ene … also the confirmation with the Zimbabwean Embassy in MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible) … ga ke itse kwa o Botswana. Re letse re lekile go ba tshwara le bone, ba tswang teng; ke lekile Sekgoa le Setswana, go a tsietsa, bo ba supa gore ga go na case that is reported ka kwa ke tlaa bua Sekalaka. rraetsho. All Districts Rapid Response Teams were activated and HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… trained on COVID-19 by the National Rapid Response HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… Team. These include Tutume Sub-District; Maitengwe Border Post currently does screening. They have an MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa rraetsho, nnyaa. Potso e o e isolation centre in Tutume Hospital. If cases increase in botsang ke yone e e fa, o potologa fela jaana, mme o the district, we will use Gweta Hospital. In total, there botsa yone, o arabilwe. are four beds between Tutume and Gweta Primary for HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… isolation.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… All cadres have been trained including private doctors. I am talking about Tutume District Health MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, ga o ka ke wa mo patika ka Management Team (DHMT); over 800 health workers tsela e e ntseng jaana. and stakeholders including officers from Botswana Unified Revenue Service (BURS) have been trained. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… The district started screening at Maitengwe Border MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, a re tswe mo go Post and Sua Airstrip from the 1st of March. Teachers tsone. Le lona le a bona kana, that is why the mover of in more than 30 schools around that area have also been the Motion a tlhalogantse gore nnyaa, karabo ke e filwe, trained, church leaders have also been trained on the mme ga e kgotsofatse yo mongwe, but it is okay. It is a preventative measures of Coronavirus and more than 35 matter for another day. Kgotla meetings in the district have been held. Hygiene resources (soap and water); they were all encouraged HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… to avail them in the facilities. There is an ambulance dedicated for COVID-19 in the Tutume DHMT and there MR SPEAKER: Honourable Dr Tshabang, your are more than 295 masks and 50 Personal Protective question, I think e ne e le number 304, to be answered. Equipment (PPEs) that would last for a month that have Assistant Minister, you have the answer. Honourable been provided to the DHMT. Lelatisitswe, you were conflicted yesterday, answer Boteti Sub District; the District Public Health now. Emergency Response and the District Disaster Rapid MR LETSHOLO: On a point of procedure. Honourable Team are functional. Training has been done to about Speaker, the Honourable Minister is now here, just 25 health workers who are front liners on the response to bring to your attention. So we can tackle question team that side and more than 200 health workers have number 1. Thank you. been sensitised.

8 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

There is currently no functional isolation in the Boteti answers, because you have all been trained. Looking Area, but they have identified Letlhakane old Post at the facilities, when someone presents symptoms is Office which is under rehabilitation and it will be done isolated and the proper testing or sample collection is within a week. If a case can be identified in the area, done and sent to the national laboratory to do the whole they will close Tawana Clinic and use it temporarily. assessment. When someone is presenting symptoms, The district has mobilised Department of Building and they are isolated and samples are collected, then sent Engineering Services (DBES) to do maintenance at the to the national laboratory. They are resourced. All those old post office and it is expected to take a week. things are available in the district.

Orapa has an isolation centre, and they are part of the MR PULE: Supplementary. Thank Honourable district response team. They have a dedicated ambulance Speaker. Re a leboga Tona, ka fa o re begetseng ka teng. which is shared between Orapa and the District Health Ke botse gore a le kwa Kgatleng re tlaa fitlhela same Management Team (DHMT). services, ka fa o ntseng o di bala ka teng rraetsho?

Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) is availed, and MR LELATISITSWE: Ee rra, le kwa Molepolole o about more than 100 N95 musks has been distributed tlaa di fitlhela mongwame. to the DHMT. Medicines and commodities needed for supportive management of the cases are available and MR MMOLOTSI: Procedure. Mr Speaker, I do adequate. not think the Honourable Minister has answered this question, because this question wanted to establish Matsiloje Border Post screening is ongoing, a port health whether taking the temperature is sufficient, and the officer was deployed to go and assist at the border. Honourable Minister is saying something different. Isolation facility MR SPEAKER: Wa ba utlwa Honourable Lelatisitswe. There is bigger isolation facility in Ntshe Clinic in MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Honourable Francistown, which has six rooms with six beds for Member. Currently that is what is being done the whole isolation. There are 12 nurses, three doctors, three world, not only here in Botswana. As a country we have health workers and three cleaners, an emergency ordered a rapid tests that we are going to distribute medical service team that are ready in case there is a around the country for everyone who has got symptoms, case in Francistown DHMT area. Ke dumela gore there then the rapid tests can be done immediately and isolate is a list of people who are trained in the Tutume and for further assessment. Further determination of the Boteti DHMTs as asked by the Honourable Member. virus. We have taken this questions very seriously, I am also MR LESASO: Supplementary. Thank you Mr Speaker. going there on Monday and Tuesday. I will be in that I want to ask the Minister, would he tell this House that area, to confirm if this is true on the ground. Monday I definitely this country is prepared in case of a pandemic, will Martins Drift, Tuesday I will be in Ramokgwebana, in case this disease comes into this country and spreads? then Maitengwe in the afternoon. Wednesday I will be Looking at what he has just told us now, about the in Orapa/Letlhakane. I thank you Honourable Member. number beds that are available for isolation and the MR TSHERE: Supplementary. Thank you very facilities that is providing around the country. Would he Honourable Speaker, and I apologise for coming late. tell this House that this country is ready and prepared in Honourable Minister, ke go utlwa sentle. I want you case of a pandemic? to clarify issue relating to testing, and I hear you have MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Honourable trained a lot of personnel, health workers. What are you Member. In terms of preparedness, it is a viral infection equipping them with, to be able to do screening and that is why as a ministry or as a Government we try to testing? Are you just giving them thermometers to just talk about a prevention. So, it will be very difficult to check the temperature? Has just checking temperature contain this thing once it is here. It can even collapse in other countries yielded in diagnosis or what is the health system. We have seen strong economies like happening? Would you say it is sufficient? Thank you. China, they were struggling. So, we cannot stand here MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Mr Speaker. I think and tell you that when this virus is now in the country, this issue of Corona, I never thought we could have we can say we are prepared to contain it, but we keep

Hansard No 196 9 Friday 20th March, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

on encouraging that people should try to prevent the To ask the Minister of Environment, Natural Resources spread. If Batswana can take all the precautions, we can Conservation and Tourism to apprise this Honourable manage this virus within our borders. House on pieces of legislation or regulations guiding the use of swimming pools in hotels and lodges in Botswana HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further supplementary. and to further state:

MR SPEAKER: The last supplementary. (i) how many people, children in particular, have MR LESASO: Mr Speaker, I do appreciate the lost lives due to drowning in swimming pools in Minister’s answer in relation to prevention. Here I am Botswana hotels and lodges over the last 3 years; talking about when the disease is here already, when it (ii) what measures has the ministry put in place to is within our borders inside. We have heard and seen reduce the number of lives lost in these swimming places like Italy and the United States (US), where pools; and people are locked in. Whether you have facilities or plans in place that you are thinking about or that you are (iii) when will the Minister make it mandatory putting in place to deal with this unlikely situation. That for public facilities, hotels and lodges to have is what I am trying to say. permanent, trained and qualified life guards at their swimming pools. MR LELATISITSWE: Thank you Honourable Member. Let me just say, we have a response team MR LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): Thank you which is chaired by the President. Let us wait for them very much Honourable Speaker and welcome Minister. to give us as a nation, the country’s preparedness. I think Honourable Speaker, this question is brought in light of they meet every Monday, Wednesday to check… on-going discussions in the public space about lives lost in swimming pools, lodges and hotels across Botswana. HONOURABLE MEMBER: And Friday. Honourable Speaker, I hasten to point out that it is of MR LELATISITSWE: Monday, Wednesday and interest because in my view, for a country of our size Friday to check… especially, a life lost is one life too many and for this particular reason, we cannot afford to look at these lives HONOURABLE MEMBER: Progress. lost and look the other way. MR LELATISITSWE: Progress or our preparedness It is further of importance because the lives lost include in terms of all measures relating to this Coronavirus. those of young children of our nation and as we know, HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… those are the very future that we look out to. The other section of the population that is involved is that of drunk MR LELATISITSWE: The resources, as a Ministry of patrons at these hotels and lodges. It is very easy for Health and Wellness resources… all ministries have to someone to look at those drunk patrons who would lose stand up to fight up this Coronavirus sir. their lives in these swimming pools and think that they MR SPEAKER: Honourable Letsholo, Minister o ne a were drunk, so we should not worry about them. le fa, jaanong ga ke mmone. I again hasten to point out that to me, it points out to HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… a level of negligence and irresponsibility on the part MR SPEAKER: Ga ke itse. We were going to call of those hotels and lodges. In so far as Botswana your question again, but I cannot see the Minister. laws actually make the hotels or/and lodges and any The Minister was supposed to answer question 1 from other entity that serves alcohol. It accords them the Honourable Letsholo. She came in, ee ke yole. responsibility and accountability to not serve alcohol to MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME intoxicated patrons. So once somebody is intoxicated, they have a responsibility to remove them and stop MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, NATURAL serving them alcohol in their premises. RESOURCES CONSERVATION AND TOURISM Mr Speaker, to bring this closer to home and also to just THEME: REGULATIONS FOR USE OF make the House appreciate exactly what I am talking SWIMMING POOLS IN HOTELS AND LODGES about, I am going to please quote, if you allow, me IN BOTSWANA two or three Batswana who have raised their voice on

10 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 MINISTER’S QUESTION TIME

social media, on Facebook in particular about this issue. can no longer be held as an excuse. As a result, I will The first one I would like to quote is someone called be looking to the Honourable Minister to at least point Lorato Lexy Tlhabano and he writes, “so sad how our us to some sort of direction about maybe the possibility kids continue to drown in the pools at the lodges and no of passing a law to overrule these disclaimers and these action is ever taken. It never goes viral gore ngwana o liability notices. nwetse mo metsing at the lodge. Any other issue goes viral, but gore ngwana o swetse mo pool ya lodge, nope. In conclusion, I would hazard that it is right and it is These lodges e bile batho ba teng le fa e le go ya go re proper for this Parliament to start thinking about a law sorry ga nke ba ya gore sorry. May your soul rest in that makes it impossible in law to exclude or restrict peace Bogolo.” liability for death or injury from negligence, especially as it relates to death in these swimming pools. Mr I will quote another one Mr Speaker, he is called Leatile Speaker, I therefore do present to the Minister Question Seboni and he had written to the Consumer Watchdog 1. I thank you. on Facebook still and he writes, “on Saturday, I am attending a funeral of a young man who drowned at MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENT, NATURAL Big Valley Lodge in Hilldaville on the way to Pitsane. RESOURCES CONSERVATION AND TOURISM My heart bleeds for the young life cut short by what (MS KERENG): Thank you Mr Speaker. Good I believe is recklessness on the part of the deceased morning and thank you Honourable for this question. and gross negligence by the owners of the lodge by not Mr Speaker, the tourism regulations of 2010 do not having a lifesaver to deal with such cases. This lodge is specifically address the issues relating to the design, owned by the same people who own the Cumberland in construction and operation of technical specifications Lobatse, Big 5 Lodge in Mogoditshane and Majestic in and of facilities, including swimming pools in hotels Palapye. Last year another young man drowned at the and lodges. They only provide for the upkeep in terms Cumberland and I am told even at Big 5 Lodge, children of standards of tourism products that are offered. The have drowned there too during birthday parties. What number of people in total and children in particular that begs the question is, why does it seem like management have lost their lives in hotels and lodges swimming of these entities does not care about safety of their pools in Botswana over the past three years as provided patrons. I know that the excuse will be that we have disclaimers that people swim at their own risk. I wonder by the Botswana Police Services are as follows in the if the tourism authority responsible for licencing and reported cases; regulating such establishments is aware of this and if In 2017, a total number of people who drowned was it is, what action have they taken against them? To the three out of which one was a child. In 2018, total number owner, it seems they do not care about the reputational who drowned was four out of which three were children damage of such incidents to their brand.” and in 2019, total number of people that drowned was Mr Speaker, just the last one, recently the voice four out of which two were children. So in general, total newspaper ran a story on its online edition and it is titled number of people who drowned over the past three years “Pools of death.” The header says, “two lives lost at Big Mr Speaker, was 11 out of which six were children. Valley and Big 5 Lodges, mourning mother to sue Big My ministry through its Department of Tourism 5 Lodge.” I will read a small caption, “the Big 5 Lodge will review the tourism accommodation licencing and its sister company, the Big Valley Lodge have come requirements with a view to determining if they are under fire from mourning parents whose children have sufficient on swimming pool operations from health drowned in the two lodges swimming pools. Shedding a and safety perspective. The department will come up tear for her 19-year-old son who died in the Big 5 Lodge with any additional requirements that could within the swimming pool in Mogoditshane, Linda Tlhabano aged ministry’s jurisdiction enhance health and safety of 50, said that had there been a lifeguard, her son’s death patrons. Mandatory and compulsory permanent, trained would have been prevented.” and qualified lifeguards for swimming pools at public Honourable Speaker, as you have heard, there is a strong facilities lies outside the ministry’s mandate and some view that these disclaimers of swimming at own risk can of the lodges do have regulations that restrict children no longer be held to be any mechanism that is suitable within its swimming pools and some do not construct to prevent losing lives for a small population as ours. It swimming pools that are accessible to children.

Hansard No 196 11 Friday 20th March, 2020 STATEMENT - COVID-19

Nonetheless, it is an industry standard that public Number two; a o tlaa tla ka molao, kana wa re policy, swimming pools should be used under supervision. I tota fela se o tlang ka sone ke eng Honourable Minister? thank you Mr Speaker. MS KERENG: O kare le a nkutlwa mme ga le nkutlwe. MR LETSHOLO: Honourable Speaker, what I was Honourable Member, thank you for your question. actually looking to hear from the Minister is a view When the Honourable Member was presenting, he was about how our Government is interested in preventing mentioning some cases where parents and concerned these loss of lives. I still maintain that I do not believe people complained or raised concern about the issue of that it cannot be about that somebody is an adult and drowning of children. They indicated that the operating they should not be by the swimming pool or a mother businesses have not addressed their issues, they have should not let their child be around the swimming pool not been attended to, even words of sympathies have not if they cannot swim. If you look at what happens in been released to them. Se se supa gore kwa go rona ga other countries... re na reports tse di kalo, except fa re a go lemoga when we check gore kwa Police what has been the extent, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, what is your when the question has come. Mr Speaker, we do not question? have complaints that have come to us gore re lebelele MR LETSHOLO: Mr Speaker, I feel that my question operators tsa rona within the issue ya swimming pools has not been answered because the question is when will le drownings. Government make it mandatory for the availability of I must admit gore when a Member is raising an issue lifeguards in swimming pools in these public spaces? I like this, a re tsibosa, go botlhokwa gore ke bo ke re ke wanted to make the point because in other jurisdictions, tlaa dira jaana, otherwise there will not be any way of for example; in beaches out there in the world, they have addressing issues. to provide lifeguards if they are providing that service, even though it is still at own risk. A re ke tlile go dira molao; Honourable Member, molao will only come when we have reviewed what persists, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, are you going to what is the situation, where are the gaps, whether molao make it mandatory? o a tlhokafala, kana within the regulations there are changes that need to be done. Thank you Mr Speaker. MS KERENG: Thank you Mr Speaker. I think what would assist in answering the Honourable Member MR SPEAKER: Thank you. Honourable Members, is the point that I made that the tourism licencing I see that Honourable Mmolotsi is not in the House, I requirements within the perspective of health and safety have got a copy of the Hansard, which has come in. So programmes within the institutions will determine the we will proceed to deal with the statement by Leader of sufficiency in terms of covering the issues of swimming the Opposition (LOO). pools and all other activities within the operations. That is the way that we can address it, but these are indicated, MR MOATLHODI: Clarification first. I pray for your the issue of safety, activities and monitoring around guidance Mr Speaker please, about that paper that you establishment lies within the operations themselves and said, ka gore Honourable Mmolotsi ga a yo ga o ka ke we can only assist by ensuring that safety and health is wa e bala, ke ne ke re kana it is for the House, it is not addressed sufficiently if we find that the regulations are pampiri ya ... insufficient. Thank you Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: I never said I will not read it. MR SPEAKER: The last supplementary, Dr STATEMENT Gobotswang. COVID-19 DR GOBOTSWANG: Supplementary. Ke a leboga Mr Speaker. I am very worried, kana Minister o bua jaaka LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR o kare ke gone ba utlwang ka Honourable Letsholo SALESHANDO): Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker gore go na le mathata a matona, bana ba a nyelela kwa It is my pleasure on behalf of the official Opposition to swimming pools. O bua ka gore, “re tlaa,” “re tlaa.” make a statement to this House on a matter of global Number one; ke batla go itse gore Honourable Minister, concern, COVID-19 or the Coronavirus, as we normally a ke gone le utlwang mathata a ka Honourable Letsholo? refer to it. The world is in a state of siege on account

12 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 STATEMENT - COVID-19

of the Coronavirus. The virus has placed countries on We call on the Government to ensure that its lockdown, ushering a period of anxiety, uncertainty, and communication to the public is clear and unequivocal helplessness for many nations and families. Our prayers at all times. Press releases and announcements should and thoughts are with the many families who have lost not leave room for doubt on what the intended message their loved ones to the virus. As at yesterday over 8,000 is. We cannot afford ambiguity or delayed decision people had lost their lives to the virus. making.

Though Botswana does not have a confirmed case To this end, we commend the decision by the President of infection, we are directly affected by the impact to take charge of the coordination of all activities related of the virus on the global economy, that is grinding to preventative measures and the rapid response to the towards a halt. The threat of possible COVID-19 cases possible outbreak of the pandemic in our country. in Botswana looms high. After all, our neighbours (with the exception of Zimbabwe) are all dealing with We welcome the decision by Government to order confirmed cases of the virus, rendering us surrounded the closure of all learning institutions. Though this and vulnerable to invasion by Corona. is a major disruption to the education sector, the inconvenience is dwarfed by the risk of having learners The virus has had a devastating impact on some of the congregate in large numbers at schools daily. We hope world’s best health care systems. It is in our interest as that Government will also consider additional measures a country to be on high alert to minimise possibilities of to decongest all public offices and allowing those who the virus infecting our populace. Should the virus find are able to work from home to do so, including teachers. its way into our borders, it should find a nation ready and united to deny it any opportunity of spreading, as Government must realise that behind the Coronavirus it has done with other countries, leaving a trail of dead health scare, looms a bigger economic crisis that could bodies and anguish. disrupt the lives of many. Some commentators have speculated that Corona will kill more businesses than As the opposition, we commit ourselves to play our humans. We need to have a robust and comprehensive patriotic role in making sure that Batswana are ready plan to help businesses, families and individuals and united to defeat COVID-19. to withstand the financial aftershock of the Corona To this end, we call on all Batswana to strictly comply nightmare. The Corona linked staff layoffs have started with all the interventions that have been proposed by in Botswana and workers face a bleak future should Government to prevent possible infection. Admittedly, Government not hastily announce its plan to save some of the interventions amount to a disruption of our jobs. Our expectation is that at the earliest possible long-held traditions as a nation. We however need to opportunity, the President will address the nation on comply for our own survival as a nation. The looming plans to save jobs and ensure that Botswana remains crisis does not allow for debate on the efficacy of the open for business after the Coronavirus. proposed interventions. Should the virus be detected We trust that as always; Batswana will join hands in in Botswana, necessitating the response to shift from prayer for the Almighty to show his greatness and mercy prevention to containment, this will of necessity be for the human race. May God continue to bless our accompanied by more interventions that may limit our nation as it stands ready and united to defeat Corona. I constitutional freedoms. Let us allow those entrusted thank you Mr Speaker. with the responsibility of directing the national response the space to execute their mandate as advised by the HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... health experts. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Saleshando. We wish to pay tribute to those of our brothers and Honourable Rakgare, that is what I was talking about sisters, whose call of duty has unexpectantly placed fa ke re, butle, because I knew something you did not them in the frontline of the war against the virus. We are know. all alive to the shortage of resources that they require to fully execute their mandate. The men and women at HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... all points of entry and health facilities are our source of pride and hope that the enemy can be kept at bay and MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, it was not ignorance, it was will not taste victory within our borders. not available to him.

Hansard No 196 13 Friday 20th March, 2020 STATEMENT - COVID-19

HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... brief statements. We thank you for your understanding because this is a very serious matter and it is of public MR SPEAKER: ...(Laughter!)... Honourable Members interest. Let me hasten to thank, most profoundly, are allowed short questions, if you want clarification. the Honourable Leader of the Opposition. This is the MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS essence of a loyal opposition… (DR KWAPE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Tla ke HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… leboge Honourable Saleshando gore a bo a eme e le MR TSOGWANE: …and this is what we expect of a Moeteledipele wa Kganetso mo Palamenteng, a supa loyal opposition… kemonokeng ya gagwe le thotloetso mo go se Puso e se dirang. Ka re a tshware fela jalo ka bokao jo bo kalo. Ke HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… one molaetsa tota o re ntseng re leka go o gorosa kwa MR TSOGWANE: …so that we forge… Batswaneng, bogolo jang baeteledipele Mr Speaker, jaaka ke kile ka buisana le Ntlo e, ke romilwe gore ke e HONOURABLE MEMBER: Yo o responsible. beye mafoko a gore re tshwere jang. Fa go setse go bua MR TSOGWANE: …who is responsible and loyal, Honourable Saleshando, a rotloetsa, a sa kgale, a re re we forge and have concerted efforts. We did so with tshwareng tiro e mmogo, re boneng gore mmaba yo re HIV/AIDS, it is not the first time, and we are doing so ka mo fenya jang, ke mafoko a mantle. Ke tsaya gore again with Coronavirus. We think, we will go a long mafoko a a buang, a tlhatlagana le a re a buang, a ya kwa way. As they always say, the President of China once setšhabeng go supa gore re seoposengwe re le lefatshe said, “with patience and insistence, the water droplets la Botswana gore re lwantshe mogare o. Ke batla gore can drill through a stone.” I have no doubt that if we ke eme fela foo, ke re ke selo se sentle gore e re re le put our heads and walk the talk together, we will defeat Batswana, re tshwaraganele selo se se ntseng jaana, re the Coronavirus daylight. We bank on you and many se ka ra se bitsa sepe fela gape, re se bitse mmaba yo re Batswana to do so. Re a go leboga rraetsho. I think tshwanetseng gore rotlhe re o lwantshe. Ke a leboga that constituency is really magical and you must keep Mr Speaker. it because it really turns things around. It is not like MR BOKO: Le nna Mr Speaker, tla ke eme ke lebogele Gaborone Central. Thank you. mafoko a a sa tswang go buiwa ke Leader of the HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Opposition, ka mathata a a re wetseng. Mr Speaker, o ne a supa tota gore re tshwaraganetse bothata jo re le DR GOBOTSWANG: Ke a leboga Mr Speaker. Ka mmogo. Fa gongwe seemo se ka fetoga kana sa bifela bokhutshwane fela, this is almost like historic gore once pele, re tlaa tshwanelwa ke go mmona jaanong a tsamaya in a while fa re tlhasetswe jaaka re tlhasetswe, re wetswe le Tautona wa lefatshe, kana baeteledipele botlhe ba ke seru, go tshwana le fa re ne re ka tlhaselwa re ya kwa diphathi tse di teng mo lefatsheng le le ka kwano, ba ntweng, re lebala tsotlhe tsa gore re apere mebala e e tshwaragane, ba supa gore ba lwa ntwa e ba le mmogo. ntseng, re bo re kopana re nna Batswana, re lebagana Re ne re bona kwa Aforika Borwa mo malatsing a a le mmaba. Se se botlhokwa thata mo dikgannyeng tsa fetileng, ba itumetse tota ba bona gore mme le fa ba botsogo, bogolo jang thata le tse dingwe tsa melaetsa, farologanngwa ke sepolotiki, fa go na le bothata jo bo ke gore we must speak with one voice. The information ba amang botlhe, ba kgona go bona baeteledipele ba ya must be distilled, e tswa from the Government, through go buisa lefatshe ba le mmogo. Gongwe Tautona wa the Minister. Fa a tlhabeletsa, re bo re mo araba. A re lefatshe e ka re a tswa jaanong jaaka a ya kwa Mass ikgapheng re le boeteledipele go fetisa melaetsa e re Media Complex kana a ya kae fela a ya go buisa lefatshe, sa itseng kwa e tswang teng, ka gore go le gantsi o a patwe ke ene Leader of the Opposition. Go tlaabo go fitlhela re e fetisa. Ke eletsa gore re fetiseng melaetsa supa tshwaragano gone moo. Ke a leboga. e re tlhomamisitseng pele gore e na le Government code. Gakere le a itse gore Facebook e dira metlholo. O HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR tlhomamise pele gore a molaetsa o sentlentle o tswa kwa TSOGWANE): I thank you Mr Speaker for your go Goromente kana Minister, before o o fetisa ka gore patience and also allowing Honourable Members, go tsweng foo gatwe o nna virus. Go tlaabo go tsamaya even though you have commanded that we must ask gotwe ke information e e tswang kwa Lephateng la short questions. You really understand why Members Botsogo, mme go sa nna jalo. Ke a leboga Motsamaisa are not asking short questions, but instead are making Dipuisanyo.

14 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 STATEMENT - COVID-19

MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, I also stand to suggest that as individuals, by now you SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR should have your own personal COVID-19 plan. When RAKGARE): Ke a leboga Mr Speaker. I am humbled Rre Saleshando spoke as if the virus comes, o rile fa re by mafoko a Moeteledipele wa Kganetso in Parliament. ka tlhaselwa. For us to respond, we must accept that As Motswana, re lebogile thata Honourable Member. we will have a case. It is unlikely that we cannot have Re dumela gore you will also address the supporters a case. of your party, le ba bangwe gore a re tshwaraganeleng ntwa e, ga e a tshwanela go lowa ka sephathi. Bolwetse So, as we plan, if we look at how other countries came jo fa bo ka felela bo goroga mo lefatsheng la rona, re ya from one to ten, to hundred, how did that escalate, then go nna le mathata fela jaaka rotlhe re ntse re bua. we can have a personal plan that if we get one today, what is going to happen in 30 days. That calls for all Mo godimo ga moo Honourable Leader of the of us to have personal plans, look at the aged in your Opposition, re lebogela gape gore o bo o tsibosa gore own family and ask yourself what plans and restrictions re le Puso, Tautona bogolo jang, a ipaakanyetse gore go have you made for them, what rules have you made for the young people. We need at a personal level to tswa gone fa jaanong fa e le gore re ka tlhaselwa, re say, what my personal plan is for the next 30 days, for tlile go thusa jang bone ba dikgwebo jalo le jalo. Ke the next two months, accepting that there is going to dumela gore ke se se ntseng se buega ka dikgakololo tse be an abridgement of civil liberties. What is our plan; di rileng. Le yone kgang e e neng e diragala ya dikole, financially movement wise and food, what is your you commended Puso go tswala ga tsone. Ke golo mo personal plan? Thank you Honourable Member. re go lebogelang. MR LETSHOLO: Thank you very much Honourable Ke ne ke re ke kope Leader of the Opposition, le Speaker, I also stand to register my appreciation to the bagarona ka koo e le Mapalamente, let us desist from Leader of the Opposition and thank him for showing posting dilo tse e seng tsone on social media. Let us act leadership in putting Botswana first. I also just wish like leaders because re bagolo fa re le fa. A re se ka ra to make this point Honourable Speaker, about that tshela molelo petorolo. Fa mo social media go kgalwa while as he has said we should be thinking about post Puso e bo e le gore jaanong ke rona re le Batlotlegi Coronavirus and helping businesses to recover, I think Mapalamente re oketsang, mme re ntse re bua ka fa re we should also at this time perhaps through the Ministry buang ka teng. Ke ne ke re ka mafoko a a ntseng jalo, ke of Trade, encourage businesses to not try to take a leboga. I hope le ya ditiro re tlaa e tshwaraganela gore advantage of the current circumstances by escalating o nne o… Ke a leboga. the prices for the necessary items needed for dealing with the Coronavirus. As it is now, my constituents MR MMOLOTSI: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. tell me that the price of hand sanitisers for instance has As a sole member of the Alliance for Progressives (AP) started to skyrocket. I wish we could deal with that in in this Parliament, I wish to unequivocally associate the interim. I thank you. myself with the statement issued by the Leader of the MINISTER OF INVESTMENT, TRADE AND Opposition. I would like to say to him that the statement INDUSTRY (MS SERAME): Thank you Mr Speaker. is so succinct, and wish we could work together as Let me also thank the Honourable Leader of the Batswana towards eradication of this pandemic. I wish Opposition, for a long time ke ntse ke bodiwa gore kwa to say that we will be together wherever we go in trying Palamenteng re bua jang. We are grateful that you have to make sure that Batswana are educated about this finally made the statement and to lend your support. I particular pandemic. I thank you Mr Speaker. thought I should stand on this point Mr Speaker, that we are also monitoring on a daily basis, le intshwarele MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS ke a itse gore ke a tlatsa, we are monitoring what is AND COOPERATION (DR DOW): Thank you happening and already some people have increased Mr Speaker and thank you very much for allowing prices 1000 times. We started to engage with some of short debates as opposed to questions. I think it also them, and I will be invoking the necessary Clauses of indicates the seriousness of this issue. I will start first the law to take control of the situation. We thank you of all by thanking the Leader of the Opposition for that very much Leader of the Opposition, and will continue very succinct statement; very clear, encouraging and to work together to see how we deal with this outbreak. unifying. We thank you for that Honourable Member. Thank you Mr Speaker.

Hansard No 196 15 Friday 20th March, 2020 STATEMENT - COVID-19

MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR Gape kgang e tona ke e e neng e buiwa ke Honourable PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT Balopi. Bagwebi ba kgaolo ya me ba ne ba setse ba (MR BALOPI): Thank you Mr Speaker. Le nna tla nteleditse ba re ba tlhalosetswe gore tota ba dire jang ka ke gate fa ba bangwe ba gatileng teng ka go leboga gore molao wa re they should provide tiro ba bo ba duela Honourable Saleshando ka boeteledipele jwa gagwe batho, mme even if they do not provide tiro; ba ba duele jo bo itshupileng gore ke Motswana wa motia e le fela, jaanong mo seemong se tota, gatwe ba dire jang. moetelediple a le fano a emetse diphathi tsa Kganetso, Ke lebogela gore Tona a re nnyaa, ba e tshwerwe, re tlaa ke go leboge rraetsho. Ke tsaya gore Batswana le bone nna re rerisanya re le tshwara ka megala, mme fa re dira ba tlaa tia moko ba bona gore tshwaragano ya rona e ke jalo, bo Tona ka koo le re arabeng tsweetswee. Ke itse ya go isa lefatshe kwa pele. Mo mafokong a o neng o a gore Honourable Kwape ke motho yo o kgonang go go bua Honourable Saleshando, fa o ntetlelela Mr Speaker, romelela WhatsApp. Jaanong ke kope fela ka koo gore ke fetise gore ke ne ke emetse Puso re kopane le ba bo Tona, kgang e e le ama lotlhe, mme re tlaa nna re makgotla a babereki; Botswana Federations of Trade lelela kwa go lona re le leletsa, a re dirisanyeng sentle. Union (BFTU) and Botswana Federation of Public Ke a leboga Mr Speaker. Sector Unions (BOFEPUSU) le the Business, mo re dumalaneng ka mowa o le mongwefela gore re ya go MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, bua le ba ga rona gore go tlhokomelwe tsa mmereki le kgang e wetse and one is glad that the House itself see tsa mohiri, gore go tsamaelana jang gore re thusane go the necessity of not being unduly bound by Standing ka lwantsha Coronavirus, segolobogolo re gateletse mo Orders we should not assume nonsensical. Honourable go reng le fa dikgwebo di ka gobala, go se ka ga gobatsa Leader of the House, I am grateful for that point. Nna ke le bone badiri thata. Ka jalo, re na le a joint statement tshwenngwa ke melao e e leng gore you make it for all e re yang go e ntsha e e supang ka fa re dumalaneng weather, e bo e re re nna fa re bo re sa kgone go hema. If ka teng ka tirisanyo-mmogo mo go lwantsheng dikgang you are accused by the ...(Inaudible)… for violating our tse. Ke a leboga gore rotlhe re bo re le moko o thata mo Standing Orders, the fault is mine. Nako ga ya re ema kgannyeng e re e tshwaraganetseng e. Ke a leboga. sentle. I got the record…

MR RAMOGAPI: Tanki Mr Speaker. Tota kgang e tona HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… fela rraetsho, re tshwanetse go simolola go leboga wena MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I got the go bo o letleletse the Leader of the Opposition go ntsha record of what appears to have been said. I will try to statement mo nakong e e thata e. Fa ke sena go nna ke read, mathata ke gore le bua Fanakalo, fa o e bala e rialo rraetsho, ke bo ke tsena mo go sone statement ke nna mathata. Honourable Mmolotsi o simolotse a re, re kana batho betsho, maloba e kile ya re fa ke latlhela “Ke a leboga Mr Chairman, ke leboga thata. Ke setse golo gongwe ka bua gore kgomo e ya Coronavirus kana ke lemogile gore fa Clerk a le foo, ga go motlhofo gore COVID-19, ga e na magopelo, ke kgomo e ka Setswana motho a supiwe, mme ke a leboga.” That we have done re e bitsang re re ke ya mogoga. Ke gore fa le tlhaba in ...(Inaudible)… I then look further and later on again kgomo ya leso, ga gona yo gotweng o ka ja magopelo I find, “Ke supe fela gore Honourable Moatlhodi, fa mo go yone, e tsamaya fela e ntse jalo kwa lesong. gongwe tse di go diragalelang ga di tshwane le tse di re COVID-19 e, ga se e re ka reng re le ba Kganetso, re diragalelang. Tse di go itumedisang, ga di re itumedise, bo re re nnyaa, mma re tseyetseye magopelo mo teng, so we will continue to show it. If we are not happy about re fapose setšhaba gore se re rate. Ke one mafoko a how we are treated, we are going to show it. I do not like ke emang ka one fano gore bagaetsho, re itlamile re le the way ka fa e leng gore go a ne go itlhokomolosiwa Batswana, Botswana wa rona a le mongwe fela gore gore diphathi di dintsi mo Palamenteng go bo go supiwa re tshwaragane le Tautona Masisi mo mathateng. Ke diphathi tse pedi tse di tona go tlogelwa e nngwe. I kope le bo Tona jaaka ba Botsogo gore fa ba ya kwa am not going to take go omanngwa ke Honourable dikgaolong, ba bolelele Mapalamente, ba se ka ba Moatlhodi. I thank you Mr Chairperson.” tsamaya fela ba sa re lekodisa ka gore e tlaare ba tsena kwa, batho ba botse gore ao, jaanong Mapalamente a Then Honourable Moatlhodi comes on to object; kae, segolobogolo jang Mapalamente a Kganetso jaaka ke ne ke utlwa Tona wa tsa Botsogo a re o tlaa ya kwa bo “On a point of procedure Mr Chairperson. Ke bona Martins Drift. Bagaetsho, go botlhokwa gore gongwe gore golo fa Palamente e fetolwa ditshamekwane. le gongwe fa re tsamayang teng, let us work as a team. Mr Chairperson, Clerk o ntse a ntse foo. Honourable

16 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 STATEMENT - COVID-19

Mmolotsi fa a sena go nna a supiwa, o bua fela HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order Mr phatlalatsa gore ga go bonolo gore e re fa Clerk a le foo, Speaker. a supiwe and golo mo I took it and I am still taking it with disdain ka lebaka la gore Clerk is a civil servant, o MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga. a tlhaselwa and ke kopile...” MR MMOLOTSI: Point of order. Mr Speaker, I take Either way, it goes back to that one. I cannot really see offence on what this Honourable Member is saying. If anything more than that. he wanted to comment on this issue, he should behave himself. I seriously take offence. Then some Honourable Member says, “point of order!” Then Honourable Moatlhodi; “I am standing on a point MR SPEAKER: I cannot see what you are taking of order. If at all you know your Standing Orders, you offence at. There is nothing out of order Honourable cannot call a point of order on top of another point Mmolotsi. He needs you, he says if you want to enjoy of order. Mr Chairperson, ke kopile gore mafoko a a more, join the bigger group. You may disagree with that, ntseng jaana a se ka a ba a letlelelwa. Mr Chairperson that I understand, totally disagree with it. I will probably took a decision in parables. Gompieno Honourable agree with you but there is no offence from what he is Mmolotsi o a ntlhasela. Fa e le gore o a ntlhasela a sa saying. kgalemiwe, go ntlhasela ga gagwe is completely out of MR MOATLHODI: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi order. Ke kopa gore o mo kgalemele Mr Chairperson, Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. La ntlha ke fa e le gore mogoloo o ne a lebala go mo kgalemela. O lebogela maiteko a gago a supa borara go ya go goga mo supegetse gore tsamaiso ya Ntlo e e ntse jang.” pampitshana ya mafoko a a neng a builwe. Nnyaa, It is almost the same. It looks like they are quarrelling tlhangtlhang tota e ke neng ke e buile e bile ke kopa about me having not reprimanded Honourable Mmolotsi. bakaulengwe gore ba e bue ke gore, in all fairness, I I have read the records, but because it is for this House, was trying to protect the Chair ka gore ke ne ke utlwa le ka mpolelela gore mafoko a ga Honourable Mmolotsi gore Motlotlegi Rraetsho Mmolotsi fa a bua ka go a ke neng ke a bala, a dule mo tseleng fa kae? supiwa, o tshasa setilo leswe gore ene ga a supiwe mme go supiwa diphathi tse dingwe. Ke ne ke itshegeleditse MR HIKUAMA: Ke a leboga Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo gone foo. Jaanong fa ke tla go utlwa gape gore monna tsa Palamente. Ka gore gongwe ga ke itse Setswana le yo o gaketseng kwa morago ga mme ke ngwanake. A o Sekgoa sentle, ga ke bone mafoko ape a a botlha. Se teng fela ka Setswana ngwana yo a ka goang rraagwe a ke se bonang gongwe ke attack; gongwe go bua ka mo bua? Ke sone se ke neng ke batla go se mo kgalemelela re feditseng ka gone. Gongwe se ke se bonang se re ka gore this is my son. Ga ke batle a tswa mo tseleng. tshwanetseng ra se gakolola Honourable Mmolotsi ke Ke lebogile sir. gore Alliance for Progressives (AP) e na le moemedi a le mongwe, yo o tlhophilweng e le moemedi wa HONOURABLE MEMBER: A e nne modiga. Francistown South. Ga a ka ke a kgona go emela MR SPEAKER: I think the matter is concluded constituencies di le 57. E bile fa go supiwa, go supiwa Honourable Members. I have read the record. I think a e batho ba emetse constituencies, ga ba a emela diphathi. nne modiga. Ngwana le rraagwe kana mogoloe, ba tlaa Ka jalo, mabaka le tshwanelo ya go supiwa mo tshwarana ka matsogo and carry on as before. Palamenteng e, ga di ka ke tsa lekana. E bile chances tsa gore a bue le mo dikomiting tsotlhe, ga di ka ke tsa MR TSOGWANE: On a point of procedure Mr lekana le tsa diphathi tse dingwe. Ke sone se rona re Speaker. Nnyaa, mme gone fa gongwe mafoko fa o bala sa ngongoregeng gore ba Domkrag ba buile ba le 20. o ne o seyo o utlwa the tone, you may miss the point ka Obviously they will speak more than us ka gore e bile go gore tone le yone it conveys the message. Jaanong o kare a bo go sa boeletswe motho a le mongwefela, a bo e le Standing Order sone ga se ka ke sa determine gore le fa gore ke advantage ya gore bone they are pulling from a e le sefatlhego gore ke ne ke go lebile jang ke gaketse go wide pool. Le rona we are a wide pool compared to AP. le kae, ke gone fa go nang le mathata. Therefore, it is a fact that you should learn to live with. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Leader of the House, it is Ga go na gore re ka reng. Gongwe fela ke gore a re join, true that our Standing Orders require us to go back to the pool e… Hansards. That is why I have then allowed one or two HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… people to speak after listening.

Hansard No 196 17 Friday 20th March, 2020 BOTSWANA ENERGY REGULATORY AUTHORITY (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2020 (NO. 1 OF 2020) Second Reading

I thought kagisano e teng jaanong. Mogolo le ngwana wa Government’s challenges as a result of a weak board gagwe ba tswa kgakala le fa ba ne ba le mo difatlhegong, structure, that provides for unclear reporting lines ba itse gore ba tlaa tswelela mmogo, ke bagolo. between the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and the full time board members. The Authority is currently HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… governed by an interim board whose term expires at the MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, ga o latlhele sepe. end of April 2020.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… A high level distillation of the contents of the Bill is as follows: MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, ke rile kgang e, e fedile. (i) Mr Speaker, the Bill seeks to change the structural HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… set up of the appointment of board members from MR SPEAKER: Nnyaa, rraetsho. being four part time and four full time members of the board to seven members of the board all being BILL part time.

BOTSWANA ENERGY REGULATORY (ii) To align provisions dealing with the functions of AUTHORITY (AMENDMENT) BILL, the authority, the board and frequency of meetings 2020 (NO. 1 OF 2020) of the board with the membership of the board.

Second Reading (iii) It introduces a new section which deals with disclosure of interest by members of the board. MR KEORAPETSE: Procedure. Ke ne ke re ke bona o kare my Motion has lost slot sa one. Fa ke botsa ba ga (iv) It introduces transitional and savings provisions in rona, ba re o kare o ne o sa itse kwa ke neng ke ile teng line with Section 14 (a) of the Interpretation Act le gore ga ke a laela. Ke ne ke kopa Mr Speaker gore a (Cap. 01:04). o ka re o nthomile kwa Maseru, wa mpha madi, booked accommodation for me, wa ba wa mpha le ngwana yo Mr Speaker, I therefore move that the Botswana Energy ke tsamayang le ene… Regulatory Authority (Amendment) Act, 2019 (No. 1 of 2020) be read a Second time. I thank you. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: … (Laughter!)… MR SPEAKER: The floor is open. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ka re batho ba a ja. MR MOATLHODI (TONOTA): Ke a leboga MR KEORAPETSE: … o ntlotlile mo go kanakana, o Motlotlegi Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente. bo o intatola wa ba ntsha my Motion in its slot? Golo ga Tona, Molao-kakanyetso wa gago, ke tshwenngwa ke teng go nkutlwisitse botlhoko thata. gore le fa re ise re fe Clauses, ke fa sekai fela, Clause MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Member, we 4 wa re maloko a board a eight. Go na le a mane a a will deal with that one on one. adimileng tshwene marapo. Ga ba dire tiro ka botlalo, a rialo… MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MOAGI): Mr Speaker, I beg to present the Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2020 MR MOATLHODI: Ekhuwa cha ka jalo ehe! a re, part (No. 1 of 2020) for Second Reading. I have the honour to time. Ke utlwile a re batho ba ga ba tlhwaafalela tiro. A present to this Honourable House for Second Reading, ga ke a bala sentle bakaulengwe? Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (Amendment) HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… Bill, 2020 (No. 1 of 2020). The Bill is intended to amend provisions relating to the membership of the MR MOATLHODI: Le tlaa tla le bua tlhe bakaulengwe, board under the Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority mmualebe o bua la gagwe, lona le tlaa tla ka a lona a Act of 2016 (Cap. 77:11.) mantle, ya mo ndi tshwenya tota. Ke botsa gore a o ba ntshetsa fela gore ga ba a tlhwaafala? A o kile wa Mr Speaker, as you might be aware, the Botswana ba kgalemela? Sa bobedi, ke eng o sa ba tswapetse? Energy Regulatory Authority is currently facing

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Sa boraro, a o ba rutile gore mo tirong ga re a tla go gompieno, ba sa ye go hirwa koo ke ba Human Resource tshameka, re tletse go bereka? We expect members of our (HR). Fa ke ka nopola ka tetlelelo ya gago Mr Speaker, boards to keep the image of the organisation that they gore re se ka ra direla lefatshe mathata. are representing, that is basically requirement number one. Gongwe ke go lebogele gore o tlaa fetola seemo. MR SPEAKER: Yes, go ahead.

Motsamaisa Dipuisanyo tsa Palamente, ka Setswana MR REATILE: Ke tlaabo ke tsena mo Clause 7 (a) ra re, more wa gole o epiwa motlha wa tsholo. Ke and (b) Mr Speaker, e e buang ka the transitional and tshwenyega ke tsela e our boards generally mo savings provisions. Fa ke nopola ya re, “a person who lefatsheng leno la rona, di tlhophiwang ka teng. Go le was a full time member of the board, immediately before gantsi go na le puo e e maswe, e e tlaa re thubaganyang the coming into operation of this Act shall continue ka bobedi mo lefatsheng le. Fa o lebelela fashion ya to be an employee of the authority on the coming into the boards in general, go tlhopiwa batho ba phathi ya operation of this Act,” Honourable Speaker, se Tona a Domkrag, lefatshe le ga se la maDomkrag ba le nosi. se buang, a re ba e ntseng e le board members, go raya Lefatshe le ke la rona, re le tlogeletswe ke borraarona gore fa re fetisa molao o, batho bale automatically, e le Medimo ya rona. Re le fitlhetse le tsolopaganye, le nna babereki ba Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (BERA), mme go sena gope fa ba kileng ya re letsatsi tshwaragane, e bile le tswetile. Ba ba mo mmung le yo o lengwe, ba tsenelela interview, ba ikopela tiro. Jaanong kwa legodimong, tsholofelo ya bone mo go rona ke gore fa e ntse jaana Mr Speaker, ba ya go felela ba laolwa re tswelele fa ba tlogetseng teng, re tswetise lefatshe ka molao ofe ka gore yo o tlaabong e le Chief Executive le, re latlhe se se re kgaoganyang, bogolo these cheap Officer (CEO) ya BERA, ga a ka ke a tseela batho ba go unwarranted and unnecessary politics. The country nna jaana dikgato? Ba mo gakolola fela gore nnyaa, rona should come first, we should form a very expensive and re hirilwe ke Palamente, go le Friday kwa Gaborone, ga good perfume that is called patriotism. I support the Bill wa re hira, wena o hirilwe ka fa o hirilweng ka teng. Sone Mr Speaker. selo se ga ke batle gore fa re re re dira molao, kgantele re bo re fitlhela e le gore re diretse Tona mathata. Ke dilo MR REATILE (JWANENG-MABUTSANE): Mma tse e tlaa reng kamoso re bo re boela mo teng ga Ntlo. ke go leboge Honourable Speaker. Ke leboge Tona a bo a tlile ka molao o a dumelang gore fa a o tlisa fa pele ga Fa ke nopola (b) Honourable Speaker… Ntlo e, re bo re o fetisa, re tlaabo re mo tlhofofaleditse go tsamaisa kompone e ya metlakase le dipetorole. Ke HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR na le bothata jwa gore ke dumalane le molao o ka fa o TSOGWANE): Clarification. Ke bona gore gongwe ntseng ka teng ka gore, go supagala bothata bo le teng. bothatanyana ke the historical background ya molao o, Jaanong wa re bothata jo bo leng teng, ga bo a go lekana, gongwe ga ya alwa sentle. Ke ne ke kopa, ke lemoga so, o kopa gore re go rwese jo bo feteletseng. Ke gone gore motlotlegi gongwe o ka bo a adile sentle gore board fa ke nang le mathata teng. Ga ke batle gore kamoso, members gompieno ba fa kae. Fa o re ba a tswelela bale, re bo re boa re tla gape fa pele ga Ntlo e, o tlisa molao o ne o raya jang? Gongwe that thing is missing, mme gape o o reng, e ne ya re fa re fetisa molao o, re ne re sa ka gore Tona o teng, my clarification through you Mr lebelela dintlha dingwe. Speaker and the member holding the floor, gongwe le ene a leke go nna a dira interjections ya batlotlegi Mr Speaker, ke dumela gore bakwadi ba molao, ba ne gongwe a clarify point e a bonang gore gongwe ga ba a ba dira board charter fela gore meeting o tlaa kopana e utlwisisa sentle. Ke a leboga. ga four mo ngwageng, e bile fa gongwe e tlaabo e le efficiency of the board, go tlaa bonwa gore go kopanwa MR REATILE: Thank you, your Honour, ka tlhaloso leng. Ke dumela gore Mr Speaker, ke dilo tse board ya gago. Ke tsaya gore gone jaaka o bua your Honour, fa e kopanang, e ya go itlela ka the annual plan ya dilo tse dingwe o fitlhela e le gore ga re di tshware sentle. yone fela, e tsaya tshwetso ya gore re tlaa kopana, ba Go na le batho bangwe who were redeployed from the sena go lebelela tiro ya bone. Kgang e e ntshwenyang Ministry of Minerals, gotwe ba ye go thusa kwa BERA, thata Mr Speaker, ke ya gore Tona o tla kwa Ntlo e e e le gore terms of employment ya gago e kwa ministry. boitshepho ya gago, a supa gore part time le full time Batho ba e rile fa ba tsena kwa, a bo e le gore gatwe board members… Go na le mathata a gore o batla gore ba nne full time board members, ba bo ba boa gape ba Palamente e hire maloko a full time. Re bo re ba hira tswelela ka kwa ba assume a certain responsibilities tsa

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diofisi dingwe. Gompieno se re se buang ra re, ba ye o tsenye Notice, o bo o o busetsa kwa morago. Fa e go tswelela e le the employees tsa BERA. Go raya gore ntse jaana, re tlaabo re sa go direla mathata le lefatshe. jaanong gongwe we cut ties tsa bone kwa ba kileng ba Molao o Ntlo e o fetisang e e boitshepho, e bo e le o bereka teng, re ba tsenye kwa BERA ka semolao, gore ke re neng re o sekasekile, re tlhwaafetse Motlotlegi go babereki ba koo, mme ba ise e tle e re ka letsatsi lepe, ba seka ga supafala gore,e tlaa re kgantele a bo re diretse ikopele phatlha-tiro. Jaanong legale jaaka His Honour a lefatshe mathata. Fa ke re board charter Honourable ne a tlhalosa, Tona o tlaa tla a leka go e katolosa gore re Speaker, fa o tsaya Clause 5, (7) e re, “the proceedings e tlhaloganye botoka. of each meeting of the board shall be recorded and confirmed at the subsequent meeting of the board. Ga Honourable Speaker, ke nopola (b) ya yone ke re, gona Act epe e e kwalwang jaana. Dikgang tse ke tsa “a person who was a part time member of the board, board charter Honourable Speaker, mme ka gore kwa immediately before the coming into operation of this Minerals le BERA, ba dumela gore molao o tshwanetse Act shall continue to be a member of the board on the gore o kwalege jaana, go a ntshwenya but ga se mo coming into operation of this Act”. Jaanong Tona o re e leng gore go tlisa any danger to the country and to bolelela gore ka end of April, membership wa board o the organisation but tse pedi tse, ke bona gore e tlaa re tlaabo o elapse. Jaanong molao o re o fetisang wa re, yo kamoso batho ba bo ba ya go seka right ya bone e ba o ntseng e le full time, molao o jaaka o tsena mo tirisong, e neetsweng ke Palamente eo kwa court. Court ya go ene o tswelela ka bo board member. Ga ke itse Tona, dumalana le bone ka gore batho ba ke ba ba hirilweng ke contradictions gona fa, ga o kgone go di bona? Jaaka Palamente, ga ba hirwa ke wena o le mogogi wa BERA, re fetisa molao o, re bo re ba ntšhafatsa go ya pele ka ke ba board membership jwa bone, ba bo neetsweng ke gore ga go supafale gore e tlaa re golo gongwe, go nne Palamente, ga ba a bo neelwa ke wena o le Tona, ga o le fa molao o reng no, mme yo ene wa go tsamaisa (run) ka ke wa ba bo amoga. Ka go rialo Mr Speaker, I rest nako e e kana, board membership ya gagwe e tsena mo my case. bokhutlong. MR KAPINGA (OKAVANGO): Thank you very much MR SALESHANDO: Elucidation. Ke ne ke batla gore Mr Speaker. I had a conversation with the Minister o re tlhalosetse gore jaanong ka gore molao o gotweng before this Bill came before Parliament a few days ago. re o fetise, o na le provision ya board members tse seven, I still want to reiterate my feelings that there is a very o o ntseng o le teng, o ne o na le tse eight, fa e le gore big issue that needs to be addressed not only at BERA botlhe ba tswelela ka maemo a bone, re ya to comply but countrywide. The crises that we have in this country jang le molao o mosha? A ga go reye gore Clause e o are corruption and poor ethics. At leadership level and buang ka yone fa e le gore e ntse jaaka o e bolela, e at worker level starting from the Ministers down to the tlaabo jaanong e tsuolola gone mo gotweng re go dire? lowest worker. MR REATILE: E tlaabo e sa e tsuolole motlotlegi, ka That is the crisis that we need to address and the gore ba ba tswelelang ba four, ba e ntseng e le ba part mischief. When you pass a law you want to address time. Bale ka gore ba full time jaanong ba convert e nne a particular mischief. You do not just pass a law in badirelapuso, ga ba sa tlhole e le board members, e tlaabo order to sanitise issues or to circumvent issues; you e le gore ba bereka letsatsi le letsatsi. Go tlaabo go raya pass a law and address the mischief that you want to gore Tona o ya go tla ka ba le bararo fela a bo a tsenya address. The mischief that I personally know about at fa. Ke bona e le gore molao wa teng o cumbersome fa re Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (BERA) is ka o fetisa o ntse jaaka o ntse. Ke dumela gore Clause corruption; corruption that has been an essential part of 7 (a) and 7(b) tota tsone re ka bo re di ntsha fela mo the organisation right from its inception. teng. Fa o ka dira jalo Tona, ke nna wa ntlha to support molao oo. Melao re e fetisitse mo Palamenteng e, mme We have read reports of the board doing as it pleases, e e re fa e sena go feta, fela fa re tswa ka kgoro, go bo go dira mantlek jaaka o ne o bua maabane. We have read lemosega gore molao o re neng re o fetisa ole, re diretse reports about officers using the authority’s resources lefatshe mathata. as they please. So, the real issue Honourable Minister, is for us to address this corruption. I ask myself once Ke ne ke kopa gore fa go ntse le omission kwa go ba you reconstitute this board as you want to do, which I drafting, kwa ba ba neng ba sekaseka, ba ministry le will not oppose, will that provide the answer to the real ba organisation ya BERA, a re dumalaneng gore Tona problem which is corruption and the abuse of office?

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What I would like to see you doing Honourable Minister, Fa ke tsena mo kgannyeng, ke na le bothata fela jaaka is taking very very clear decisive steps as the authority Honourable Reatile ka Clause 7 (a) and (b). Kana who presides over this organisation to deal with those bothata jo bo leng teng, re boleletswe gore bothata e ne who have committed acts of corruption, to deal with e le ngapangapano ya board members, Chief Executive those who abuse their offices, and pay themselves Officer (CEO) le the officials. Jaanong, problem o astronomical allowances and spend huge amounts of tsaya bone batho ba ba neng ba ngapangapana, you are money providing themselves with a luxurious items. legitimatising, o a ba tsenya jaanong ba ya go tswelela That is the issue that we need to deal with; whether the ba bereka kwa BERA. A ga se gore ngapangapano e e ya board is executive or none executive is not the issue, the go tswelela jaanong. issue is whether people are held to account when they do the wrong things. That is the big issue. Ke ne ke re tsaya boikarabelo Tona, gongwe batho ba ba phatlaladiwe, o tseye boikarabelo jwa gore go dirwe The second big issue is this; whether you are appointing a complete new board. Fa e le gore o a ba tsenya o tlaa the proper and fit persons to occupy board positions in ba tsenya, mme jaanong e le boikarabelo jwa gago, e our state owned enterprises, that is the big issue. If we se rona Palamente gore re ba tsenye, ka gore ga go ka continue to appoint the people you have been appointing, ke ga nna fela gore ke transition fela gore, jaanong re who look at board positions as opportunities for self- ba leboga ka ditiro, mme re ntse re itse gore ba ne ba sa bereke sentle ba santse ba le mo board. Ke a leboga. enrichment, that is what you will continue to get. You can amend the laws as many times as you want, but if MR RAMOGAPI (PALAPYE): Ke a leboga Mr you appoint the wrong people with the wrong ethical Speaker. Mr Speaker, Molao-kakanyetso o o beilweng fa foundations, you will get the same results. pele ga rona o, o batla re o lebelela sentle ka leitlho le le tseneletseng. Tota o fa o bala, ga re o lebelele maikaelelo I want us to be shown that indeed you want to transform selo sa ntlha (objective of the law), gore tota maikaelelo this country, and if you want to transform this country, a one ke eng. Tota maikaelelo a molao o fa o o lebeletse that is one of the areas that you need to deal with. Forget o siame, maikaelelo ke gore o dire gore go nne le board about appointing your friends to boards just because e e functional. Selo sa ntlha. they are your friends in certain circles. Appoint people on merit, people who have the right ethical foundations, Selo sa bobedi, go nne le board e e leng gore tota ke who have the right character and integrity to lead our board e fale e tsamaisa e le board, go nne le babereki ba state owned enterprises. Then you will have solved your le fale ba tsamaise e le babereki. Fa o bala sentle se se problems, you will not need a multiplicity of laws to try ntseng se diragala, babereki ba ba four, ba ntse ba fetoga and address this situation, you will have the right people. ba tla ba nna board members, go tswa gone foo ba a boa, I think that is the solution to our problem Honourable koo teng fa meeting o fela, e nna babereki. Golo moo Minister; let us deal with corruption, let us appoint the ka tsamaiso is not proper, tsamaiso e e siameng ke gore right people to the right positions on merit, and not as board e nne fale e tsamaise e le nosi, mo ka puong ya political patronage. Thank you Honourable Speaker. Sekgoa re reng the main role of the board is to establish direction and to approve long-term policies. Se se MR MOLEBATSI (MMADINARE): Ke a leboga Mr diragalang ke gore, the employees ba ntse ba tlolela ka Speaker. Ke simolole ke re, kana maabane Leader of the fa, fa ba tlolela ka fa kana jaanong they become bosses Opposition o kile a bua gore, gongwe ke simolole ka go to the CEO. Fa ba sena go nna ba nna boss to the CEO fa gatelela e a kileng a e bua maabane gore, fa gongwe bo ba le in a room foo, kamoso ba apola thoro ele jaanong, Tona gongwe pele fa le tlisa selo mo Palamenteng, go CEO o nna kwa godimo ga bone. So tota ka tsamaiso e na le sub-committees and portfolio committees, dilo tse e siameng, this is improper, ke raya fela fa ke lebeletse re di ngunanugane pele rona ba ba mo dikomiting tsone the objectives. Ke sa itse gore gongwe go na le nngwe tsa ministry one wa gago. Re kopile ministry officials tsa gape objective e ke sa e itseng, ke raya ke lebile fela fa. gago gore, a re bueng selo se pele, re se tlhaloganye pele Fa ke le motho yo ke lebelelang, ke bona ke patelesega pele fa se tla kwano, mme ga go a diragala jalo. Jaanong gore ke eme Tona nokeng ka Molao-kakanyetso o ka fa e tlaa nna e kete gongwe o fitlhela ke le Chairperson o beilweng ka teng. ya Committee nngwe kwano, ke tlaa go ganetsana le Minister kwano, ka gore re a bo re ise re bone dilo kwa Fa go buiwa ka disclosure of interest, ke selo se se dikomiting. tlhamalatseng se mongwe le mongwe a tshwanelwang

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ke gore a se lebelele gore how come gore re se ka ra indicates, kana re bua le bo Minister ba ba santseng ba disclose interest ya rona. Ke lebaka le ke reng, ke bona le basha, also just advise gore o ka thusa e ntse debate go tshwanela gore ke eme Tona nokeng gore, o batla e tsweletse, so that ga re tseye nako e e telele re ratha gore board members they should disclose their interest, sekgwa a bo a ya go re baakanyetsa right at the end. if there is a matter e e ba amang. Golo mo ke tsamaiso e e siameng e e tshwanelwang ke gore e diragadiwe. MR SPEAKER: You are quite correct Honourable Leader of the Opposition. Ke raya gore fa bakaulengwe Gona le kgang e nngwe ya meetings of the board… ba bua, o kare ba a latelelana ba re bone ga ba tlhaloganye gore gotweng tota, go iwa kae, it is proper MR REATILE: On a point of clarification. Thank you to have an intervention from the Minister or to ask the Mr Speaker, tla ke go leboge motlotlegi. Motlotlegi, ke Legal Counsel if it is a legal question. utlwa gore o ema nokeng Bill ya ga Tona, gongwe ka leitlho le o e boneng ka lone. MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN Ke ne ke batla go tlhaloganya gore the original Act e TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY supa gore Tona ke ene a tlaabong a kgona to appoint (MR MOAGI): Clarification. Thank you Honourable board members mme gompieno o tsaya maikarabelo a Member and Mr Speaker. The intent of this Amendment gore jaanong you appoint board members tse nne mo Bill is to sort out the Governance structure, just like I letsatsing la gompieno, a ga o bone conflict e e yang go indicated earlier on. There is a lot of entanglement like nna teng fa gare ga nako ya ba ba tsena mo issue ya gore some of the Honourable Members mentioned that you nako ya bone e a fela, Tona a re o bua le bone, ba mo raya cannot one day be a full time member, the next day you ba re kana rona re sale re bewa ke Palamente ka Friday are a board member here. You are basically playing both ka nako ya gore? Batho ba a tlaabong a na le thata fela roles at the authority and the board level. mo go bone ka gore molao o ga o nne elaborative, ke ba bararo. Ba ba four ba ke ba maikarabelo a bone a leng I would like to just come into key points that were raised mo teng ga Ntlo e ka fa molao o o ntseng ka teng. here. We are not even looking at whether somebody is currently occupying a position or not, because when MR RAMOGAPI: Ke a leboga Honourable Member. the law is drafted, we do not look at who is currently Like I said, fa Bill e bewa fa pele ga me, ke leka go e occupying the position. We look at the efficiency of the lebelela thata, ke tsenya leitlho ka fa ke e bonang ka law as it obtains. The one key point that Honourable teng. Clarification o e kopang motlotlegi ya gore a ke Reatile also mentioned is that Parliament is going to bona go siame gore Palamente e bo e appoint batho ba appoint this, no. It is very clear that the Minister shall ba four, ga e a nna jalo, ga o a e bala sentle. The Minister appoint the board. But the law must be there set by will be responsible to appoint the board members. Rona Parliament that will guide the Minister to appoint these se se leng teng fela, re dira fela gore go nne le transition board members. There must be separation of powers ya gore board e bewe e le batho ba ba seven. The logic in terms of board members and management who are behind gore batho ba nne seven ke gore ba tshwanetse doing the day to day work of the authority. go nna odd number gore go se ka ga nna le dilo tsa bo go lekalekana jalojalo. Gape fa o ka e lebelela sentle wa If we look at the one key issue of number 7 which e bala le gone kwa go lekalekaneng, e supile gape gone is transitional serving provisions, these are done to mo Act e gore in case go na le tie, the Chairperson will ensure that the amendment does not serve to terminate cast a vote… employment. These were put there because there could be people here, whether they are terminated or not, that LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR is not the issue but there could be people occupying SALESHANDO): On a point of procedure. You will positions currently as it obtains. It is meant that they do guide me if I am misleading the House. We are getting not serve to terminate employment, which is a point of in the Bill in an untidy situation where we as Members law, and further that it is consistent with Section 14 (a) are offering different interpretations of what is intended. of the Interpretations Act. The Minister knows the position. Dinako tse dingwe if you keep quiet until gotwe respond, again le a itse gore The issue dealing with corruption as per Honourable when the response is given, you are not bound to respond Kapinga; that one is not an issue, that is a management to any interjections. It makes it difficult for some of us issue, we will sort it out and we are not there. Here we to really follow the logical debates. If the Minister so are dealing with issues of law whereby we are saying,

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if I give an example, you know the old Botswana LEARNED PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL: Yes, Telecommunications Authority (BTA) which is Mr Speaker, I was getting there, to the effect of… Botswana Communications Regulatory Authority (BOCRA) now, they had a particular structure like this MR SPEAKER: Legal Counsel, you must remember, one, the structure had to be changed because of all these I have been practising at this game for more than 40 governance issues. You cannot be a player and a referee years. at the same time, so the board must act its fiduciary duty there such that they can do the oversight duties over HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)... management. Really, this is what we seek to correct in MR SPEAKER: Please, just deal with your question, terms of this governance structure. because nako e a re sia. You cannot lecture us. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR SPEAKER: I think we are going to have a problem because the Minister stood on a clarification. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)... The Honourable Member wants a clarification on a LEARNED PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL: So in clarification. Let us ask Legal Counsel to deal with terms of Section 14 of the Interpretation Act, ke yone the Clause le Honourable Reatile, whether in fact, that gives effect to the amendments tsa the Acts. When one, if this was to pass into law, would Parliament be this Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (BERA) appointing any board members? Bill is passed through this Parliament, ga e fe Palamente LEARNED PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL (MS authority ya to appoint board, e neela Minister authority MOIPEI): Thank you Honourable Speaker. Before I ya to appoint board. So it is a transition provision e e make a comment on Clause 7 of the Bill, I think it is tshwanetseng gore e diragele during the operation of the best I explain an Act that is cited on the memorandum Act. of this Bill, it is the Interpretations Act, CAP 0104. It HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)… would make things easier and the debates will flow. In LEARNED PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL: terms of the Interpretations Act, this Act was passed by Minister, ke ene a fiwang tetla in terms of the Act, not this Honourable House in 1984. It is an Act that stood Parliament. Parliament passes the Act. the test of time. So, in terms of this Act, if purpose is to interact well, and to inform the drafting of any pieces MR SPEAKER: What you can do Legal Counsel, is of legislation that will be passing by this House … point to the Bill and the Clauses which are confusing the (inaudible)… from the drafter’s perspective, ba ba Honourable Member and say, that Clause if you read it kwalang melao kwa Attorney General’s Chamber, ba properly with this Clause, it shows clearly that it is not ofisi ya ga Mma Moroka, when they draft melao e e tlang Parliament, but the Minister, gore ba tshware sentle. Ba mo Palamenteng, they are informed by this Act. It is an se ka ba nna le ketsaetsego. Act that applies to the supreme law of this country, the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Ga se gore re botse gore Constitution. It applies to every Act of Parliament and ketsaetsego e tsalwa ke eng sir? Gongwe re botse gone every Statutory Instrument made directly or indirectly foo, re tlhamalatse ketsaetsego eo gore e dirwa ke eng. under any Act of Parliament. This Interpretation refers to an Act of Parliament, fa e bua ka enactment gape. It MR SPEAKER: The Minister was still explaining, I am refers to a provision in any Act or Statutory Instrument, not sure whether the Minister has finished. Honourable fa e baakanngwa. In terms of the Interpretations Act, as Minister, you were explaining, if you are through with I have stated, it is a fundamental aid to drafting laws. your explanation, then the Member on the floor can When the laws are drafted, like the Botswana Energy continue. Regulatory Authority (BERA) Act… MR MOAGI: I am through with my explanation Mr MR SPEAKER: Legal Counsel, please do not give Speaker. us lecturers’ words. The issue is, if this Bill passes as drafted, will it in effect say Parliament is appointing MR RAMOGAPI: Tanki Mr Speaker. Kgang e e fa members of the board? That is what they want, not pele ga rona ke tsaya gore tota yone ga e thata. Fa o e whether you were drafting, we want the effect of this badile sentle fela, o iphile nako sentle, gore tota Molao law. o o batla eng.

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of elucidation. MR REATILE: Clarification. Tla ke go leboge Honourable Speaker. Honourable Member, ke ne ke re MR RAMOGAPI: Ke ise ke bue you are elucidating a o tlhaloganya gore kgang ya Board Members tsa kwa fela tsala ya me. BERA, molao o ntse o neela Honourable Minister thata MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ya gore he or she can terminate boloko. Go na le ba a RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Mr neng a re a ba seegetse fa thoko e le Board Members, Speaker, ke ne ke re gongwe le nna ke ka thusa go ntsha gompieno jaana ba dumela gore ba seka Board ketsaetsego e, ka gore Honourable Ramogapi, rightly Membership ya bone. E ne e le la ntlha ke bona. Jaanong so, points gore Molao o ga go na confusion epe mo go ga ke batle gore e re re tshwanetse gore re bo re baakanya one. Jaanong, when we started this amendment, ke fa Molao o o tshwanetseng gore re ye go tlhofofaletsa Tona ke santse ke le gone fa rre yo a leng teng. The issue to run organisation, re bo re mo ketefaletsa. Ke sone se as a layman fa o bala Clause 7, I actually challenged o utlwang gompieno jaana ke na le, “Joshua bothata jwa the Attorney General gore, bona Attorney General, tsela” ka kgang e. Ke ne ke re a seo o a se tlhaloganya golo fa batho ba ba ntsentse dingalo, I do not want this gore, go na le ba ba sekang boloko. Ke la ntlha ke bona Clause, he said, no! no! on the balance of probability, motho a seka bo membership jwa board, e seng tiro. A nobody should be disadvantaged because somebody se o a se itse rraetsho? has committed or commissioned an Act which you do MR RAMOGAPI: Fa o ka ela tlhoko, Molao o, o not like. So everybody on the balance of probability baakanya sone seo. Sone se se neng se diragetse seo, must be safe, this is a saving Clause. It will be recalled ka gore e tlhamaletse fela sentle mo go Clause 7, o e gore re ne ra simolola ra tsaya kgato by international bale sentle o iketlile. E tlhalosa seemo seo fela sentle ka investigations and then started legal action on some botswerere, gore go tlaabo go diragala jang. Ka gore tota others, but there were other board members ba e leng se se leng teng, batho ba na le ditshwanelo, mme ga re gore they were not subject to that. Jaanong fa e le gore ka ke ra ba itsa gore ba ka ya kwa makgotlatshekelong we are changing, re bo re re, le ba ba senang molato fa ba bona ba sa tseega sentle. Fela se se fa pele ga rona kana ba ba iseng ba dire sepe, re gorometsa kwa, se, sone sa reng? Se se fa pele ga rona se se tlhamaletse, throwing the baby with the bath water, then that is not in unless and until… kana go na le dilo tse e reng wena accordance with the Constitution of this country, as the fa o di lebelela jaana ka leitlho la gago la thutego kana legal Counsel was saying. It would not be fair. Fa go na senama, o bona di tlhamaletse. Gongwe jaanong di na le ba ba dirileng phoso, then there are other processes le mowa o gotweng wa matimona, o o seyong, o o ka o that have to be followed, not through this law. bonang ka seporofito fela. Jaanong oo ga re na nao, re MR RAMOGAPI: Tanki sir. Mr Speaker, kgang e e fa lebeletse ka mowa kana spirit se se siameng, se tlisitse pele ga rona tota yone e motlhofo, e batla re e lebelela Molao o fela. Ke e lebeletse jalo fela ke bo ke re, nnyaa fela ka yone tsela e e ntseng jalo, gore, Molao o o fa pele mme tota Molao one bakaulengwe re bona o siame gore ga rona o, does not want us to appoint Board Members, lephata le tswelele. ga se gore o batla sepe fela se se corrupt. In fact, Molao Mathata a e leng gore a teng, a re sa tshwanelang ke o o fa pele ga rona o, is guarding against corruption, ka gore fa re fetisa molao, re bo re ka palelwa ke gore, gore wa re, motho fa a na le interest should declare, a o e tlhodumele mme Tona, ke matshwenyego fela se ka a tsenelela mo dikgannyeng tse di foo. Jaanong ke a gore, nnyaa, golo ka kwa rraetsho, o a itse go na le Molao fela o o siameng, ka fa ke o badileng, e bile ke o dikgangkgang, tse ke tsayang gore le wena e bile o leka bone ka teng. Molao o dirwa jalo. gore gongwe o di baakanye ka Molao o o o tlisang fa Molao gape le fa re o dira Honourable Members, ga re pele ga rona o. Dikgangkgang tseo rraetsho ga re batle ka ke ra dira gore go nne le void kana gap, transition ya go di bua, re mo Ntlong e e tlotlegang, tse dingwe di mo teng e tshwanelwa ke gore e tlhamalale, gore mme fa dikgotleng tsa ditshekelo. Tse dingwe ke dikgangkgang re tswa fa re tsena fa. Ga re ka ke ra dira gore go nne le tse ba bangwe ba reng, mme kana di dirwa ke gore we mo gotweng ke crisis, kana re re jaanong re tseela batho appoint batho ka gore, yole ke semangmang, o na le le rights tsa bone tse di leng teng. Jaanong ke dilo tse karata ya Domkrag, yole ke semangmang. Tota go and tsotlhe tse bodiredi kana Tona, a di lebeletseng, ke bona appoint batho ka bokgoni le nonofo ya bone, ba tsamaise ke tshwanelwa ke gore ke mo eme nokeng mo Molaong lefatshe la rona. Lefatshe le ke la rona rotlhe. Ke ka mo o wa gagwe a o beileng pele, gore ... e reng fa o tlisa Molao o, re bo re sa o lebelele re re,

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mma re go paledise Tona, ka gore fa re ka go paledisa, I did not hear you well; are you saying the current Board kamoso re tlaa ya kae. Lefatshe le ra re re le baakanye re tenure will end in April 2020, that is when you are going le mmogo, re bone gore mme tota kwa re le isang teng, to appoint the seven Members according to this Act? I le bana ba rona ba tlaa tsoga ba re, mme e rile Ramogapi think between now and April 2020, those full-time a le mo Palamenteng, a bua jaana. Ba se ka ba re, a re ones will continue and then revert to their employment. latlha ene yo, fela ka gore e ne e le wa kganetso. Re Then, those who are part-time, are going to take their tlaabo re sa dire sentle. Ke a leboga Mr Speaker. tenure until April 2020, whether their contracts will be renewed, fresh appointments, it is up to the Minister’s DR TSHABANG (NKANGE): Thank you Mr Speaker. discretion. With those few words, I stand to support this Let me take this opportunity as well to support this Bill. Bill. Thank you Mr Speaker. When I debated on the Committee of Supply for the same ministry, I ran short of time. I was going to ask MR MAJAGA (NATA-GWETA): Ke a leboga Mr the Minister, when is he cracking the whip on BERA, Speaker. I will not be long in this (Amendment) Bill. because it is an organisation that is very critical in this Ke tlhalose fela gore I support the Minister mo go se country, as far as energy security is concerned. a batlang se diragala. Batswana have been long waiting for this amendment ya BERA, like other Members have What we had been hearing over the past few years already alluded to. has not been giving us confidence that we have a good organisation, as far as corporate governance is Minister, we are concerned ka Board Members tse e concerned. So, we will stand to support this Bill. My leng gore fa gongwe are appointed to be Members in understanding is that we are correcting corporate about four to five parastatals.Ke gore motho sharing bo governance irregularities, or what we thought was a Board Member mo all those organisations. Ke kopa gore working structure was now working against the progress selo seo o se lebe thata, Batswana ba ba ntsi ba rutegile, of the institution. Hopefully, we are not helping you bangwe ba ntse fela. We have got a pool of staff ba ba to target certain individuals and bring in certain other ka dirisiwang, ba bangwe have retired with very good individuals; undesirable ones. We are only here to put educational background, ba ntse fela kwa malwapeng, this organisation in a platform that can operate and bring rather than go nna re tsaya batho ba le bangwefela from the desired results. So, we will support you, go and one board to another. Golo moo ke kopa gore o go lebe bring the structure that is needed. Be careful because thata. Ke sone se se ntshwentseng gore ke eme Tona, the complaints that we always have, like Honourable e re ke go ema nokeng, ke leke gore ke go thuse ka Kapinga was lamenting, is issue of corruption. People dikakanyo tseo, le Modimo a go tlhotlheletse mowa o o eye these positions to use organisations so that they can boitshepo gore o lebe kgang eo. deep their fingers illegally, and divert public funds or resources into their pockets. Mr Speaker, tlhaloso e e neng ya dirwa ke Honourable Minister, Honourable Molale le Leader of the We will support you looking at the fact that you are Opposition, e ne ya re baya mo seemong se se siameng, correcting things, bringing in a fresh page. We do not through your intervention. Go ne go na le ketsaetsego want a situation where we are taken ka mowa wa gore ya gore ke mang yo o yang go tlhopha these, jaanong we are correcting and then the next thing, we bring bangwe ba re ke Palamente. Selo seo se tlhatswitse another set of looters. kgang e gore re tlhaloganye gore when this amendment e diragala go ya pele, go a go berekesega sentle jang. Honourable Minister, Botswana Energy Regulatory Kana ke nngwe ya ditiro tsa rona re le legislators gore Authority (BERA) plays an important part in this dilo tse di ntseng jaana e re re di tlhalosa, re bo re le country, so we want it to perform its duties unhindered informed kwa Batswaneng ba re ba emetseng. Ga re by the mess o re ntseng re o bona. batle se se diragetseng kana se se kileng sa diragala In terms of Clause 7 in this Bill, I think it is okay, it is kwa Local Government. Fa o tsaya Local Government standing well because you do not want to be pushing Act ka the nominated Councillors tsa toropo ya Sowa, people out who are still doing their job. It is a transitional those who were nominated ba bo ba sekisa Goromente, period, so any change of Act need that period. I think it gompieno they are nominated gape. Jaanong ga ke itse is sitting very well and it is okay, it is covering both gore a fa nako e ntse e tsamaya, a ga ba na go fetoga who are in the Board now and those who are going to gape, ba bo ba bowa ba seka gape. Jaanong we want to continue. guard against such things re le legislators gore go bo go

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nna go tla some amendments tse di tshwanang le tse. Re I think the Minister could perhaps look into that if his leke go thibela bangwe ba ba lebeletseng gore fa molao real intention was to remove that person completely, o ntse jaana mo lefatsheng le, ba ka tsenya bonweenwee then he must not do the opposite in the amendment by jwa bone kana corruption, go tloga jaanong ba diga giving the board the discretion to allow such person. Mr serodumo sa lefatshe le itsholelo. Ka go rialo Mr Speaker, the old Act was completely uncompromising, Speaker, I support this amendment. Thank you. it completely precluded a person with such an interest and did not give a discretion upon the board to allow MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND such a person to sit. HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR KGAFELA): Thank you Mr Speaker. I have understood the proposed Now, when we talk about the transition provisions amendment quite correctly, and I see nothing wrong which I heard Members grappling a great deal with; it in it. I do not quite understand what the problem is is just consistent with many of our presumptions which with regards to some of our Members, who are raising are there in the law. We know that when Parliament concerns. passes the law, unless it expressly says so, that law is presumed not to apply retrospectively. If this law finds It is quite clear that the Minister seeks to be placed in a board members sitting, and some of them are negatively position not to be compelled to have to appoint full-time affected by it, in consequence of which they need to Members, and he wants the Chief Executive Officer vacant office immediately, unless the Act clearly says (CEO) because he is an officer to be a Member of the so, the presumption kicks in in their favour and they Board, but not to have the right to vote. When we look at continue retaining their membership of the board until the old Act, it did not clip his wings when it came to the it expires on passage of time. All that the Minister has right to vote, the proposal imposes the prohibition upon done here was to really codify by this amendment, codify him of not voting. that presumption and making it beyond any question Otherwise, all else looks okay, their membership that this amendment does not affect pre-existing rights. remains in terms of numbers, not different. Other than We have the Interpretations Act, which too retains that that, here it says seven, but I suppose the eighth one is presumption against retrospective application of law, the CEO, who is an ex-officio member. unless we as Parliamentarians expressly say it will have retrospective effect. Then, all it does also Mr Speaker, is that it reduces the frequency, the number of times which the Board must There is no such thing as Parliament itself appointing meet. The old Act compel them to meet at least 12 times, board members. The old Act gave that power to the the new one says they can reduce that to at least four Minister, and so too does this new one, nothing has times in a year. changed in terms of appointment. I do not understand those who would take the Minister to court to litigate The other amendment which is of interest is the over their appointment. I am not so sure whether amendment of Section 18. I must seek here to assist the the example that Honourable Reatile gave is really Honourable Minister. If I have understood him correctly, litigation about exercise by the Minister of powers to Section 18 which deals with disclosure of interest, the appoint board members, or is it about the coming to an Minister’s objective here was to completely prohibit end of their tenure in office as board members. If we had those people who have an interest at the beginning of further facts on that, perhaps we could comment more, a meeting to disclose that interest, and then not take but I do not see this Act creating a platform for which part at all in those proceedings. That is what he says in board members can then take willy-nilly, the Minister motivating this amendment. to court to go an urge upon the courts that they have been appointed by some other authority other than the When you go to the amendment itself and compare it Minister, because the Act is clear, Parliamentarians have to the existing law, the existing law was very clear it made it clear as far back as 1985, if I heard the Counsel served the purpose which the Minister says he wants say it correctly that it came in 1985. Even now, they served, it prohibited those with interest in the board are still standing by the position that it is the Minister from continuing to take part in the proceedings. This and nobody else, but the Minister who appoints these amendment Mr Speaker, when we look at Section 6 board members and their appointment; if they are tied the new Section 18, it gives the board the discretion to to a period of time, they cannot challenge that. When allow a member who has an interest to then continue.

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the time falls due, they have no choice but to fly out. Mr we cannot have a structure like this subsisting especially Speaker, I thought I should make my contribution to that where it has to protect consumers. That is why it was extent. I thank you. changed.

MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND As I have explained, Clause No. 7 cannot cause us RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): Thank any worry because as Honourable Kgafela did say, it you Mr Speaker. I stand to support the Bill as presented a saving Clause; the law has to protect all and those by my colleague. The original Act’s intent was to protect that are suspected to have violated the law, there is consumers and business people in the energy sector, and a separate due process that has to be taken. This Bill to ensure that we grow the economy as driven by the is very innocent and it is still following the original energy sector. The reason I would say for this Bill here intent of protecting the consumer and the business, and is that, the original objectives of the existing law from growing the economy of this country. It is within that, the onset were never met. When one examined as to that I support this Bill Mr Speaker. Thank you. why, it was found that it is an issue of governance, the very essence of the application and implementation of MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, you will recall that law was not happening and the question was why? that yesterday I told you that I was prepared to work up One then had to go through the law and found out that to 12 midnight because we had to finish the business. this could have been the causes of such lapses. From an As it is now, Standing Order 26 says that we adjourn at administrative point of view, the Minister had to then 12:30, there has been no variation. go into the institution that is supposed to implement this So, I intend to follow that Standing Order. There has law and find out why it was not happening. As such, been no Motion of any kind moved. I understood that an inquiry was constituted as an administrative tool there was going to be a Motion by His Honour the Leader to understand why, and it came out with a number of of the House, and I have been trying to intimate that it things. Some were administrative, which therefore were looks like, because of what happened in the morning ka dealt with administratively and some had to be referred Honourable Mmolotsi and Honourable Moatlhodi, we to other structures that promote good governance and just went round and round re bo re ja nako yotlhe. Those protection of the very essence of doing business with a are two questions running, and although Minister may Government setting. Those structures are working on reply to the debate now, because I did not see anybody those. standing to do that, I just wonder whether we can go through Committee, Third Reading and finish without The last point was that if there was this lapse, where extending the sitting hours, or we then move this Bill to in the law was the lapse concentrated and how should the next sitting. Honourable Leader of the House I saw we then deal with it? That is how it led to this proposal you standing. to amend the Act and in particular, interrogating that LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): aspect of why the whole Act had not been implemented Thank you Mr Speaker, if in your wisdom Mr Speaker, as one would have expected to meet the original and calculating time you realise that we cannot conclude intended and still existing objectives of the Bill; that is this Bill, because the understanding was that this is the what brought about this. As I did say earlier, the whole only business that we have to conclude, and because is object was to then look at the structure that leads the a short Bill we had thought that there will be no need Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority (BERA), and to extend time. If you feel that you may not finish it, it was found that key amongst those was the state and because I think the debate is within your powers to nature of the board and it compelled any reasonable curtail in terms of the Standing Orders, you can stop being to then say, we need to change this structure. I it anytime to allow the Bill to go to Committee and be think that is what the Minister is trying to do, to say, let concluded. If you feel that you are time constrained, us change this structure. There is a case law and even then I think we can move a few more minutes to allow other similar things that happened as he was saying. The this Bill to go through, than to leave it to the next sitting, Botswana Meat Commission (BMC) and the Botswana it is in your hands Mr Speaker. Telecommunications Authority (BTA) at one point had a structure similar to this and I think many others, and MR SPEAKER: I think Honourable Members, most of found that in an evolving governance system like ours, you have spoken and I deliberately allowed that because

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first there was this confusion as to whether the Clause MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN meant that Parliament is appointing board members, TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR which will be very surprising. I did not want to then take MOAGI): Thank you Mr Speaker, your Excellency the position of Attorney General or Legal Counsel, and thank you, and thank you Honourable Members in say nnyaa, Honourable Member you do not understand, the House. I believe earlier on the clarification that I there is nothing like that the Minister is quite okay. I advanced, I touched on a few of your comments, and wanted the Counsel to do that, but she was doing it in it gave some direction in that space. I would like to be the manner which she did not make it clear why Clause drawn to the attention of what Honourable Kgafela was 7 as said by Honourable Reatile was not in fact part of saying, in terms of Section 18. I hereby heed his advice. that point. Therefore in terms of 18.1...

I think at the stage where we are, if we move on to 1p.m. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE AND we will finish this Bill, because now we have to wait for HOUSING DEVELOPMENT (MR KGAFELA): the Minister to reply and we are going to Committee, Point of order. Mr Speaker, I did anticipate that the and from Committee we come back. Just so that we are Honourable Minister was going to say that which he is safe, I am sure we will finish before that. Honourable about to say, and I wish to withdraw that part of my Leader of the House if you can then move first the argument, in which I was dealing with Section 18. I must variation of the sitting to 1:30 p.m., I am sure we will be thank Dr Kwape, I had not seen in his memorandum out before 1:30... the golden words “unless the board otherwise directs.” Dr Kwape drew my attention to them, in consequence HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... of that Mr Speaker, I withdraw that statement in my MR SPEAKER: A ko iketle, then your other Motion argument, only that part of it. I think the Honourable so that we conclude the business of the House. You can Minister was on the right track. Thank you. start with the other one. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Member. BUSINESS MOTIONS MR MOAGI: Thank you Honourable Member, thank LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): you Mr Speaker. I have taken heed of all the wisdom Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I beg to move that came from Honourable Members. Particularly I in terms of Standing Order 27.1 (c) that the hours of want to highlight that, the law itself would actually help in a number of the issues that we have raised. today’s sitting be extended by 1 hour 30 minutes. That is, instead of concluding today’s business at 12:30p.m. With a properly constituted board, directed by corporate we must conclude it at 14:00 hours. I wanted to abide governance principles, they will be able to deal with all by the Speaker’s requirement of 1 o’clock, but it is still the issues of corruption or alleged corruption as has been okay, it is within the two hours. The reason for this mentioned by Members in this Honourable House. They proposal is to allow this Honourable House to deal with will have clear steps of direction to take in any manner and dispose of all the stages of the Bill before us. I move that is deemed to be not following what the intent of accordingly Mr Speaker. the Authority must be. Therefore, I believe that we start with the law and then all the other issues will fall into Question put and agreed to. place. Therefore, Mr Speaker, I believe I have touched MR TSOGWANE: Mr Speaker, I have another Motion on all the comments made by the Honourable Members. to move. I beg to move in terms of Standing Order I therefore, move that the Botswana Energy Regulatory 28.3 that at the adjournment of the Assembly today Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 1 of 2020) be Friday 20th March, 2020 the present meeting shall be read a second time. I thank you. concluded, and the Assembly shall then stand adjourned sine die. I move accordingly Mr Speaker. MR MOATLHODI: O a point of procedure Mr Speaker. I do not know whether it is procedure or what, I Question put and agreed to. am praying for your guidance Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moagi, would you like to my prayer is we do the Bill, its Committee Stage, finish reply to the debate. and suspend all other businesses that come after the Bill.

28 Hansard No 196 Friday 20th March, 2020 BOTSWANA ENERGY REGULATORY AUTHORITY (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2020 (NO. 1 OF 2020) Third Reading

MR SPEAKER: You are not moving a Motion, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, as you agreed Honourable Member. Honourable Members, the to extend the hours of sitting to 2:00 p.m. Honourable question is that Botswana Energy Regulatory Authority Leader of Opposition, now the ball is in your court. Do (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 1 of 2020) be read a you want it to continue or does any Member want to second time. move a Motion, so that they can curtail?

Question put and agreed to. MR MOATLHODI: Mr Speaker, thank you very much sir for your gorgeous arrangement of quickly dealing Committee Stage – Forthwith. with that Bill without any problems. I do hold the floor ASSEMBLY IN COMMITTEE through your grace Mr Speaker, that rather than going into the total full agenda for today, we decide to do away (CHAIRPERSON in the Chair) with the remaining part of the Order Paper and simply BOTSWANA ENERGY REGULATORY put that, we do not go into debating the Motions. We AUTHORITY (AMENDMENT) BILL, shall see them when God brings us back, if we shall not 2020 (NO. 1 OF 2020) perish through the Corona thing. God forbid, so that this Corona does not come here and should go to the seas. MR CHAIRPERSON (MR SKELEMANI): Order! Order! Honourable Members, the Bill has seven Clauses, MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi, your proposal no amendments have been indicated. Therefore, I intend is that the rest of the matters on the Standing Order to call all the Clauses together. should not be proceeded with. Honourable Members, the question is that the remaining items on the Order Clauses 1-7 agreed to. Paper should not be dealt with today.

…Silence… Question put and agreed to.

BOTSWANA ENERGY REGULATORY MR SPEAKER: Order! Before I call upon the Leader AUTHORITY (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2020 (NO. 1 of the House to move a Motion of adjournment, I have OF 2020) been asked by the Minister for Presidential Affairs, Bill reported from Committee without amendments. Governance and Public Administration that when the House adjourns, you are asked to go to the committee Third Reading–Forthwith. room to be informed on what you have been looking for Third Reading and asking me. BOTSWANA ENERGY REGULATORY HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… AUTHORITY (AMENDMENT) BILL, MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… something better 2020 (NO. 1 OF 2020) than lunch.

(Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and MOTION Energy Security) ADJOURNMENT MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND ENERGY SECURITY (MR LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): MOAGI): Mr Speaker, I move that the Botswana Thank you Mr Speaker. Before I move, I wish you a very Energy Regulatory Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2020 good holiday and we must go and educate people about (No. 1 of 2020) be read a third time and do pass. Coronavirus. We wish all Members to come back for the next sitting safely and having dealt with Coronavirus in MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order! Order! your constituencies. Having said that, I move that this Honourable Members, the question is that Botswana House do now adjourn. Energy Regulatory Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 1 of 2020) be read a third time and do pass. Question put and agreed to.

Question put and agreed to. The Assembly accordingly adjourned at 12:24 p.m. sine die. The Bill was read a third time and passed.

Hansard No 196 29 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa, Ms M. Madubeko

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

Hansard No 196 30