Interview with Ferdinand von un During the 2014 harvest, Ferdinand Graf von Thun extended an invitati- on to a wine tasting event in the inner courtyard of his Château, where we enjoyed the sunshine and he spoke of his relationship with Gaillac, a region that has moved and inspired him from the start. You started growing wine late in life. Have you always dreamed of making your own wine one day? To be honest, no, nor did my family ever have anything to do with wine. I am actually a lawyer. However, I’ve always had a strong interest in wine as a subject and have been on many exciting wine tours. How did you come to grow wine in Gaillac, of all places? The first time I arrived at Château de Frausseilles in August 1998 - I had just driven up from the airport in Toulouse - I was already overwhelmed by the landscape. These beautiful gentle hills are like Tuscany, but in France! I had also learned a bit about the history of the region before I travelled here: Gaillac suffered many defeats in the past and kept being left in the dust by its rival, Bordeaux. I just felt that this place deserved a second chance. Why would you look in faraway places when there’s so much on your doorstep? It was on a really hot afternoon that I stepped through the stone entrance portal of the château the first time. The pediment had an ancient inscription on it, as it does now: “Sans estre traître vis toujours en ta foy ne variant pour prince ni pour roy”. It means something like, “never betray your faith, not for prince or king”. So the people who lived within these walls rebelled against authority! That’s something I can relate to immediately as a Bavarian. We like to say “mir san mir” – “we are who we are” (laughs). Were you able to find out what the inscription is about, exactly? The castle was first mentioned in the 15th century. In all likelihood, it was built much, much earlier than this, but it’s impossible to determine exactly. During the 16th century, no fewer than three religious wars took place, merging almost seamlessly into each other, namely the First, Second and Third Huguenot Wars. In 1568, when the Huguenots conquered Gaillac, the Catholic inhabitants yielded to the Protestants to avoid the worst of the repercussions. Château de Frausseilles was plundered and one of the Protestant rulers lived here for several years befo- re selling it back to its original owner. I suspect that the inscription is from just this period. In such turbulent times, even solidly built houses take some damage. Do you know whether today’s walls correspond to the original buil- dings? I have discovered documents that mention a whole fortification in Frausseilles, which was apparently destroyed in 1587 by the Consul of Gaillac on orders of the Parliament in Toulouse. Without its fortifications, the château today is just a rectangular building. It is adjacent to a church, which must have served as the palace chapel once upon a time. It used to have two floors, but in the course of the centuries it was downgraded by a level – possibly during the Huguenot Wars. Château de Frausseilles is by no means a swanky palace; with its limestone walls, it fits beautifully into the landscape – which is something I liked immediately. I knew on the afternoon of my first visit that I had found my home. And then there were of course the vineyards… Indeed. During my first walk I noticed the stony ground immediately. As an ambitious layman, I figured right away that this had to be something quite special. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from my many wine tours, it is this: I know from experience that especially great wines grow on poor soil. There is also the fact that the château lies relatively high on the plateau, so it’s cooler, and the grapes get an extra couple of weeks longer to ripen. I knew that all these things are important factors for great wines, and if I’m going to be producing wine, I want to do it properly and aim for the best. Nevertheless, I still needed my feelings to be confirmed by a wine professional. And that’s what Riccardo did, in the end. Can you tell us about the early days at Comte de Thun, please? What was it like restoring the château, for example? As soon as I bought the château, we started with the renovations. We were some of the first to do so with Frausseilles, although other property owners have followed our lead and now have the courage to invest in their homes again. That’s a really good sign for the whole region, I think. The château’s interior has always been inhabitable, so there wasn’t too much rede- coration needed there. I mainly wanted to make it more comfortable. In the beginning, for example, everything was heated by large fireplaces. Naturally we kept those, but today we have additional heating. I also had the wallpaper removed to bring out the beautiful natural stone. There was significantly more to do on the outside. For a while, I kept travelling to Frausseilles for long weekends to keep up to date with the work and occasionally pitch in myself. I was supported by a project manager who led the construction works. And what were the vineyards like at the beginning? The previous owner of the château had run the vineyard between 1992 and 1998. In his time, he planted about 25 acres of new stock and developed the vineyards to a good standard. We found about 5 acres of Merlot, 7 acres of Syrah and 5 acres of Cabernet Sauvignon as well as a small amount of Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc. The remaining 7 acres had been planted with local grapes, Duras and Braucol, to conform with the Appellation Gaillac guidelines. That’s quite a number of grape varieties… ...which my friend Riccardo and I had to gain a better understanding of to start with. I know that my predecessor was blending cuvées that had the Gaillac AOP (Appellation d’Origine Pro- tégée) status. But we wanted to know how each grape variety expresses itself in our terroir. So, we initially made single varietal wines from each grape variety that we found here, including Duras and Braucol. In 2000, we finally decided against the two local grape varieties, because we just weren’t happy with the varietal wines we had obtained. They simply didn’t fit into the style that we were going for with Comte de Thun. And how did you pick your grape varieties in the end? As you might imagine, Riccardo wanted to plant more Merlot – he is after all Mr Merlot! And I have to admit, our Merlot has developed very well in its own way. Given the age of the vines, our Cabernet Franc wines are also showing their own character, and they have a lot of potenti- al. Of the Syrah, we found a plot with old vines, as said, and we loved its quality from the start. Our Cabernet Sauvignon, on the other hand, often doesn’t ripen in this elevated location, so we don’t focus on so much anymore on this grape var So there are no local grape varieties among the vines you cultivate to- day, meaning that the region does not allow you to market your wines under the AOP Gaillac quality seal. How do you feel about that? We accept it and we’re going to continue on our own path anyway. Since we didn’t like the results from the local grape varieties, we have replaced them with our favourites – Merlot, Syrah, Cabernet Franc and Pinot Noir. However, according to the wine laws, a vineyard’s plots must be filled to at least 60% with local grape varieties, or it loses its AOP Gaillac status, which is exactly what happened. But it isn’t very logical: other Gaillac vineyards that likewise produce red wines from these exact grape varieties are allowed to put the AOP Gaillac seal on their bottles. Why? Because their vineyards have been planted with at least 60% of the main va- rieties Duras, Braucol and Syrah. The first two have to be at least 10% each, and at least 40% taken together. At the same time, Prunelart, which is an autochthonous (native) grape variety, is not classified as a main Gaillac variety, despite being born here. That’s just absurd! Especi- ally when you consider that at least 50% of these grape varieties have to be actually blended in the wine. To put it another way, in Gaillac you can officially only produce cuvées. But very often, that isn’t what actually happens; the quality fanatics produce pure varietals all the time. In the same spirit, in the mid-19th century Dr Jules Guyot recommended blending no more than three grape varieties and was generally for pure varietal.s. He said, “Wine genius comes from the grape variety!” Dr Guyot should know, since he developed one of the vine cultivation methods most used in the world, after all, and his insights are still being taught today. The final kicker is that the Gaillac Appellation for red wine has only existed since 1970. So much fuss about a regulation that isn’t even 50 years old and doesn’t always make sense! Especially once you know the region’s history and the market demands.