Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology Rose-Hulman Scholar

The Rose Thorn Archive Student Newspaper

Winter 1-14-2005

Volume 40 - Issue 14 - Friday, January 14, 2005

Rose Thorn Staff Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, [email protected]

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Recommended Citation Rose Thorn Staff, "Volume 40 - Issue 14 - Friday, January 14, 2005" (2005). The Rose Thorn Archive. 234. https://scholar.rose-hulman.edu/rosethorn/234

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This Book is brought to you for free and open access by the Student Newspaper at Rose-Hulman Scholar. It has been accepted for inclusion in The Rose Thorn Archive by an authorized administrator of Rose-Hulman Scholar. For more information, please contact [email protected]. ROSE-HULMAN INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY T ERRE HAUTE, INDIANA Friday, January 14, 2005 Volume 40, Issue 14

Redefi ning the administration Luke Stark Co-Editor-in-Chief

t Tuesday’s Institu- tional Meeting, Presi- dent John J. Midgley Aannounced a restruc- turing of the upper-level admin- istration. This offi ce rearrange- ment will reduce the number of cabinet members reporting to the president from ten to six. Midgley told the Tribune Star that the changes are not a “reor- ganization.” No one has lost a job, and those who are currently vice presidents will maintain their status. By constructing a cabinet of broadly-empowered vice presi- Stephen Pierce / Webmaster dents, he hopes to create a more The new organizational structure of the Rose-Hulman administration. The number of parties directly reporting to focused view of Rose-Hulman Midgley has been reduced from ten to six. from an internal viewpoint. He also stated that a more tightly the Financial Aid offi ce, Student ognizable. and Vice President for Academic have stepped down from their structured cabinet will be more Affairs will continue to operate as The Vice President for Business Affairs will be expanded to in- respective positions as President appealing to external groups. before. and Finance will become the V. P. clude the supervision of Logan and Vice President of Rose-Hul- The new V. P. for Enrollment The Development and External and Chief Administrative Offi cer. Library; Institutional Research, man Ventures to resume full-time Management will lead a team Affairs Offi ce, currently led by a The offi cer will work with the of- Planning, and Assessment; and teaching duties at Rose-Hulman. comprised of the Admissions single Vice President, will be split fi ces of two other vice presidents: Rose-Hulman Ventures. IRPA and Gloria Rogers, Vice President of and Financial Aid Offi ces, for- into two offi ces, each with a Vice IAIT and Facilities Operations. Ventures are currently separate IRPA, will be retiring this sum- merly grouped with the Offi ce of President. The Development Of- Midgley believes that the combi- offi ces directly accountable to the mer. Student Affairs. Grouping these fi ce will be directly responsible nation will allow the administra- president, and the library is a part Following the announcement offi ces together will allow the for all Institute fundraising ac- tion to more effi ciently use the of IAIT. According to Midgley, at the Institute Meeting on Tues- admissions team to make more tivities, and the Public Relations available resources for mainte- Ventures will become more di- day, faculty members raised con- cohesive decisions concerning Offi ce will oversee special events nance and improvement of Insti- rectly involved in Rose-Hulman’s cerns about the changes. the cost and composition of each and continue making the Rose- tute property. project-based education. class. Other than the transfer of Hulman “name brand” more rec- The responsibility of the Dean James Eifert and Brij Khorana Continued on Page 3... What is the real cost of attending Rose? Angela Smiley of Financial Aid and Student Affairs. Staff Writer Melinda Middleton, Director of Fi- nancial Aid, stated that the estimates Each year, the Admissions Offi ce were born largely of experience. $1200, posts an estimate of the cost of at- or $400 a quarter, anticipates that the tending Rose-Hulman. The 2005-2006 average student will take four courses fi gure, as posted on their website, is and pay approximately $100 per text- $37,400: $27,500 in tuition and fees, book. “Now do we know if that’s cor- $7,500 for room and board, $1,200 for rect?” she considered. “We do have to textbooks and $1,200 for additional estimate it.” However, she says that living expenses. Freshmen must pay the Offi ce has not received negative $3,200 upon entry for the mandatory feedback on the number to date. laptop, bringing the total cost of a fi rst Formal data on student budgets year at Rose to over $40,000. Even up- and attendance costs is diffi cult to perclassmen, who already own their come by. “We do collect lots of data laptops and may benefi t from reduced on students,” commented Gloria Rog- tuition, are advised to expect costs of ers, Vice President of the Offi ce of In- at least $33,270 a year. This, everyone stitutional Research, Planning and As- agrees, is not chump change. sessment, “but not of that type... [it’s] Stephen Pierce / Webmaster But it may not be the whole story. never been requested.” Jon Gipson, Brittany Elkins, Matt Neisen and Adam Banzon (L-R) work on their entry for the re- Some students and even faculty have Melissa Grette, a sophomore me- cyclable engineering competition on Wendesday. Teams had one hour to create a self-propelled suggested that this fi gure is too low an chanical engineering/mathematics vehicle from a variety of materials, including 2-liter bottles, aluminum soda cans, cardboard, and estimate. Tuition numbers are drawn double major, was fairly positive. “I just duct tape. Team “I Like Pie” (Andy Jobe and Andrew Lee) placed fi rst in the contest, being the only directly from the schedule of fees; room don’t like paying for the food,” she com- team to cross the fi nish line of the 10-meter track without leaving the ground. A judges’ Best De- and board costs assume on-campus mented, referencing the Aramark meal sign Award was given to team “3JV” (Victor Sung, Jon Vonk, Jeff Kennedy, and John Cergnul). residence and an 18-meal plan. Howev- plans which are mandatory for on-cam- er, the remaining two categories of cost, pus students. “Otherwise it’s okay. I This was the 19th year that Student Activities sponsored the event, with by far the largest turn- books and miscellany, are less clear-cut haven’t had to take out any loans yet.” out. This year, 36 teams participated, fi lling the Union Lobby and the Kahn room for the com- and must be approximated. This pro- petition (last year only 12 teams attended). cess is performed jointly by the Offi ces Continued on Page 3... News Entertainment Opinions Sports Flipside

Guns, more on the cost Under the sea. Vive la France! Engineer swimmers Don’t get over-excited. of attendance. make waves.

Page 3 Pages 4 & 5 Page 6 Page 7 Page 8 2 CLASSIFIEDS The Rose Thorn Friday Saturday January 14 15 * HSS Forum, “The Earth- * Society of Women Upcoming events quake and Tsunami: An Engineers’ Girl Scout Issues Forum on the Di- Day, Kahn Rooms, 10 saster,” M-137, 4:20 p.m. a.m. to Noon Panelists: * WMHD-FM Concert - James Hanson, CE (Featuring Partly - Alicia Cecil, ABBE Cloudy), Kahn Rooms, - Sam Martland, HSS 8 p.m. - Alexis Nathaniel, Student - Anton Dias Perera, Student Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 * Martin Luther King * Registration For Spring * Registration For Spring * Registration For Spring * Registration For Spring * Final Date To Drop Win- * Dance Team Dance Clin- Jr. Day Recognition Quarter Quarter Quarter Quarter ter Quarter Class Without ic, Multipurpose Room, Program, Featuring * Admissions’ Visitation * Cosmic Cinema Pre- * HSS Spontaneous Art * Engineers In Concert Penalty SRC, 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. Performance by the Af- Day Program, Hatfi eld sentation, GM Room, Contest, Art in an Hour, Auditions, Hatfi eld Hall * Registration For Spring * Fine Arts Series, A Night rican-American Choral Hall Theater, 1-4 p.m. Moench Hall, 8 p.m. O-169, 4:30 p.m. Theater, 4:30-6 p.m. Quarter of A Cappella (Featur- Ensemble of Evansville * Engineers In Concert * Engineers In Concert * Engineers In Concer * Student Activities’ Laser ing The University of (Ind.), Hatfi eld Hall Auditions, Hatfi eld Hall Auditions, Hatfi eld Hall Auditions, Hatfi eld Hall Crystal “Clearly You” Illinois’ Xtension Chords Theater, 6 p.m. Theater, 4:30-6 p.m. Theater, 4:30-6 p.m. Theater, 4:30-6 p.m. Momentos, Kahn & Indiana University’s * Winter Funfest, Union Rooms, 10 a.m. - 6 p.m Ladies First), Hatfi eld Hall, 7:30 p.m. Classifi eds Faculty & Friends Discussion Group Apartments and houses

Faculty & Friends Discussion Group Fridays, 8:00 a.m., United Available January, 1-4 Bedroom Apts & Houses. Starting at Campus Ministries, 321 N. 7th St., Terre Haute, 232-0186. A dis- $335/month. ROI Apts. 232-2466. cussion centering on “Why Religion Matters” by Huston Smith. Algebra 2 Tutor Female Algebra 2 Tutor Seeking Algebra 2 tutor for two high school students Wednes- Tutor needed for 11th grade Algebra 2 student. Female ap- days after 6 p.m. or on weekends. Contact Molly Reed at plicants preferred. Call Bruce at 812-872-2466. [email protected] or 217-826-8700 for more information. Table Talks Exploring Scripture by E-mail

Come to United Campus Ministries, 321 N. 7th St., each Exploring Scripture by E-mail is a program of weekly Bible Wednesday night at 5:00 for Table Talks, a shared (often refl ection sent to you by e-mail. If you would like to receive home-cooked) meal and discussion around the table on a this, call United Campus Ministries at 232-0186 or e-mail us topic chosen by the students. Everyone is welcome! at [email protected]. The Bible and our Lives Lunch at Rose-Hulman

The Bible and Our Lives meets each Tuesday night at 5:30 Lunch at Rose-Hulman happens on the 2nd and 4th Fridays at United Campus Ministries, 321 N. 7th St. This is a group of the month in the main dining rom of the student union. discussion on the Bible and spirituality as part of our lives. Bring your tray and join us to get acquainted and visit. Look for the United Campus Ministries table sign. Ford Escort for Sale Room for Lease Car for sale. White Hatchback Escort 1992; 102,000 miles. Mi- nor cosmetic damage. Relatively new tires. $550 or best offer Room for lease for March-May. $300/month includes utili- Contact: [email protected] or call 877-0727 ties. Call (812) 201-6285 or email [email protected]

Sharp Flats Leadership, creativity, fun. Now renting for 2005-2006 school year! East On 6th St. Become a writer, editor, or 1 bdrms & studios 1-9 Bedroom Houses for rent for the

2004-2005 school year. webmaster for the Rose Thorn. 6710 Wabash Visit our new On or near S. 6th St. Trails End Deli! Call for details. E-mail [email protected] for more information. Call 877-1146 The Rose Thorn The Rose Thorn Opinions Editor: Staff Writers: Advisor: the right to refuse publication CM 5037 John Kropf Bridget Mayer Dr. Richard House of submissions that the edito- RHIT Robert Herbig rial staff deem unsuitable. 5500 Wabash Ave. Entertainment Editor: Andrew Twarek The Rose Thorn is printed Terre Haute, IN 47803 Jacob P. Silvia Alexander J. Clerc Fridays during the standard Editors reserve the right to E-mail: [email protected] Aaron Meles Rose-Hulman quarters. condense or edit submissions Sports Editor: Angela Smiley for clarity, space limita- tions, grammar and spelling Phone:(812)877-8255 Josh Annin Ely Spears The deadline for content sub- Fax: (812)877-8166 mission to the Rose Thorn is mistakes, and factual errors. Photographers: 5 p.m. two days prior to dis- Letters to the Editor must be Web Address: Flipside: www.rose-hulman.edu/thorn Matt Durham tribution. All content should signed and include contact Gregory Weir Carmen DuVall be submitted to thorn@rose- information: phone number, Co-Editors-in-Chief: Andrea Brown hulman.edu or to the Thorn e-mail address, and the major Luke Stark Webmaster: Offi ce (Union room 249). and class of the author. Bob Schulein Stephen Pierce Copyeditors: Bill Waite Editors reserve the right to Ad Manager: Abby Rebhorn accept new content or con- News Editor: Odessa Goedert tent changes submitted after Lissa Avery deadline. The Thorn reserves Friday, January 14, 2005 NEWS 3 Firearms on campus Bridget Mayer students do have the right to own Staff Writer a gun, they also are accountable for their actions: “We are living in On February 22, 1998, a Rose- a different world. You have to be Hulman fraternity member bar- responsible—you can’t make any ricaded himself in his room with mistake with a gun.” As a retired a 9mm handgun. After fi ring police offi cer, Flora has seen the fourteen rounds at objects in the devastation caused by irrespon- room, local law enforcement of- sible gun owners, from incidents fi cers persuaded the student to like those here at Rose to acci- drop the gun and come out of the dental suicides—the tragic result house. No one was hurt. of mistaking an unloaded gun for successive visit,” commented On December 11, 2004, a dif- one that contains ammunition. one student. Flora noted that stu- ferent Rose-Hulman student dis- Fortunately, Flora said, Rose-Hul- dents have little reason to hold on covered that the 9mm handgun man has never had a criminal inci- to weapons for security reasons: he stored in the console of his car dent involving a gun, a statistic that “I don’t think you can fi nd a safer had been stolen. The matter is many larger schools cannot claim. environment, so it shouldn’t be be- currently under investigation by When a student brings a gun cause they feel fear on campus.” The club, which was started Terre Haute police. to campus, the Offi ce of Public He also commented that Rose- in the early 1990s after a local Rose-Hulman’s campus has Safety requires that the weapon Hulman has a strict no-weapons boy accidentally shot a friend long been known for its security; be registered and stored at their policy—meaning no one, not even while playing with a gun, en- the Offi ce of Public Safety pro- building; this includes stun guns, Public Safety offi cers, are allowed courages gun safety and has vides student escorts, emergency tasers, and paintball guns. The to have guns on campus, outside held several instructional ses- call boxes, and a variety of other weapon must also be approved by of the Offi ce of Public Safety. This sions for interested students services to ensure the commu- Pete Gustafson, Vice President for policy is currently under revision; and faculty. Michael McCullough, nity is safe. Unfortunately, these Student Affairs and Dean of Stu- the school is considering whether president of the Gun Club. incidents could not have been dents. Public Safety offi cers store students should be allowed to have feels it was unnecessary to prevented. The students involved weapons for about ten students guns on campus at all; which would move the club’s equipment off http://www.tmpguns.ch/glock/ failed to register their weapons in a safe which is only accessed by require relocating those guns stored campus, as “there doesn’t seem to glockcompact.html with the Offi ce of Public Safety, the offi cers. In order to retrieve a at Public Safety. The new policy will be any risk of theft…in the Public and instead stored them privately weapon, a student must fi ll out a be fi nished by March, and will af- Safety Offi ce. There could not be are a lot of people that don’t realize and left them susceptible to use by fi rearm transaction form, provide fect not only those who store guns a safer place to store these things that they’re prohibited on campus. whoever found them. While these two pieces of identifi cation with on campus but also members of than in the very same building as Not only can you not have them in examples are two out of only three pictures, and give a detailed de- the Gun Club. Public Safety.” McCullough stores the hall, but you can’t have them in gun-related occurrences the cam- scription of the weapon. Although Earlier this year, an administra- his own weapon with Public Safe- your car with or without a permit. pus has ever seen—the third in- this process ensures the right tion review of hazards and liabil- ty. When asked why a student may The danger, of course, in a com- volved a student hunting squirrels weapon gets to the right student, ity on campus led to the removal refuse to register a weapon, he munity living environment is that on campus with a rifl e—they send some students fi nd it bothersome. of the club’s guns, ammunition, had trouble coming up with rea- someone could get seriously hurt.” a signal to any other students who “I kept mine at Public Safety and reloading presses to an off- sons. Mainly, he felt that “some “Good citizens will check their store their weapons in their cars most of the time. It was a defi - campus location. The supplies students fi nd it a hassle to store guns in, like they will also regis- or fraternity houses. nite hassle. Sign in and out every remain there and have made it their gun…I know it is very safe to ter their cars,” said Flora. “We just Gary Flora, Director of Public time. I was told to move farther diffi cult for the club to hold their store a gun with them, though.” want to make sure we are providing Safety, explained that while eligible and farther from the safe on each large gun shoots. Gustafson agrees: “I think there proper safety for all members of the Restructuring, Art in an Hour from Page 1 Several wondered how the re- for people to fi ll these positions. structuring and potential chang- Two advisory committees will be es in administrative roles would assisting the president in selecting affect the family atmosphere of candidates for each position. Each A spontaneous art contest Rose-Hulman. Some fear this re- committee will consist of two fac- structuring might adversely im- ulty members, one trustee, a stu- pact the Institute’s future. Con- dent member nominated by V. P. with fabulous prizes! tacted faculty and staff members for Student Affairs Pete Gustafson, declined to comment. and a staff member nominated by With the current Vice President V. P. for Business and Finance Rob- of Development and External Af- ert Coons. Community feedback fairs, Mark Richter, moving to a po- will also be accepted and consid- sition at Ohio Wesleyan University ered in the selection process. and the creation of a V. P. of Enroll- President Midgley says these Wednesday, January 19, ment Management position, two changes will “help us get to the next vice presidential cabinet positions level.” The fi nal structural changes will be open. Korn/Ferry Interna- are expected to be in place at the tional, an executive search consult- beginning of the next fi scal year, 5:30 PM, Olin 169 ing fi rm, has been hired to search beginning on the fi rst of July. Cost, from Page 1

David Yip, a junior computer Ms. Middleton is fi rst to voice a science major, was more critical. hope that the fi nancial aid situa- “$1200 for books over an entire tion is improving. “It’s wonderful year? I wish.” However, Yip also that [Rose] President Midgley is feels the overall number is not working on this,” she stated, “and terribly overstated. “Actually, I that’s what we really want - to see think that might be a little high... more aid available to students.” it’s more like thirty-fi ve, thirty-six However, she cautioned, the aid thousand. Of course, that’s still budget will take time to grow, disgusting.” The estimate for even with President Midgley’s juniors’ expenses weighs in at a efforts. “We really won’t see any- hefty $33,684. thing for another year.” While student opinion is split Unfortunately, this may be over the accuracy of the esti- doubly problematic for current mates, the numbers themselves students in fi nancial trouble. are a typical source of vexation. “What I try to tell students when Pizza, drinks, cookies, Some students shrug the costs they come in is to look for as off with humor: “It’s a lot easier many scholarships as they can,” when you sell cocaine on the explained Middleton. “But a lot and art supplies side,” deadpanned Mike Gough, of scholarships will just be for sophomore mechanical engi- fi rst-time students - incoming neer, “$37,000 is just a drop in the freshmen. If there’s nothing, then provided by the HSS Dept. bucket.” with a cosigner a student can take 4 ENTERTAINMENT The Rose Thorn

Out This Week Elektra Life Aquatic is deep Directed by Rob Bowman Starring Jennifer Garner Rated PG-13 Gregory Weir seen.” ularity and he is Flipside Editor The Life Aquatic is a movie facing fi nancial Racing Stripes about Steve Zissou, an oceanog- ruin. The fi lm’s Directed by Frederik Du Chau When I walked out of The Life rapher in the Jacques Cousteau not about Zissou’s Starring Frankie Muniz Aquatic with Steve Zissou, I had vein, who commands a crew of relationship with Rated PG just one thing to say. “That was bizarre characters who wear red his maybe-son, the strangest movie I’ve ever stocking caps and have Glocks however, nor is it Coach Carter strapped to their thighs. At the about a madcap Directed Thomas Carter beginning of the movie, Zis- scheme to raise Starring Samuel L. Jackson sou meets a man who money. It’s not PG-13 may or may not even about get- imdb be his son, at a ting revenge on House of Flying Daggers Directed by Yimou Zhang time when the “jaguar shark” Wes Anderson not only manages to fi t most Starring Ziyi Zhang his fi lms that may or may PG-13 are fail- not exist, but of the cast into a single shot, but fi ts them in a ing in defi nitely is re- small, yellow submarine as well. pop- sponsible for the On DVD death of Zissou’s beloved partner. The fi lm doesn’t naturally formed out of random The Village seem to be about anything at all. chance. This movie seems to This is a very, very strange come from the same place; it Léon: Deluxe Edition fi lm. It’s about an award-winning seems to have come into the oceanographer, but the only ac- world, fully-formed, like Athena. The Fifth Element: tual animal in the movie is a dog. The fi lm is hilarious, but seems Deluxe Edition The rest are animated using a to contain no jokes. It has a story, Without a Paddle technique that resembles impos- but no plot. Why is Zissou such sibly good stop-motion, given al- a bizarre character? How did he Paparazzi most-believable names like “jack create his decrepit-looking and shark,” and decorated in true highly-advanced ship? Is the fi lm Technicolor. The crew includes itself merely one of his fake-look- Box Offi ce Tops: a man who sings David Bowie ing and unfathomable documen- songs in Portuguese and a topless taries? 1. Meet the Fockers script girl whose lack of clothes is I don’t know if this is a good never mentioned, focused on, or movie, but it is is a movie that ev- 2. White Noise explained. eryone should see. I did lose two There is a thought experiment hours of my life that I’ll never get 3. The Aviator about evolution that describes back, but I am sure that they are a watch found in the desert, in a better place. DVDs are like Bill Murray plays Steve Zis- sou in the new Wes Anderson vehicle, The Life Aquatic. This a fi ne whine Jacob P. Silvia wants to buy the single disc for is his third Wes Anderson Entertainment Editor $80 when they can buy the two- fi lm. (or more-)disc edition for $30, Every once in a while some- since it is no longer a “collector’s thing so horrible, so heinous, so item.” absolutely, positively harrowing If the multi-million-dollar- comes up that I just have to sit manufacturers don’t fi nd it fi t- ‘White Noise’ just here and whine about it. What is ting to include the title in their that, you may ask. To put it sim- production line, why don’t the ply: out of print DVDs. sell the DVD rights to a DVD OOP DVDs are something that manufacturer that caters to a so much static just shouldn’t happen. Granted, more cult-like crowd? The MST3k I can understand it when a cer- episodes slowly becoming avail- tain release of a DVD goes out of able on DVD thanks to Rhino Sarah Thaller Not only does the plot spiral scarier than this movie. Hell, print when the manufacturer re- (www.rhino.com). I don’t see The California Aggie (U. Califor- from creepy to bogus, but the end “Multiplicity” was scarier than leased a new edition, but when I why Rhino and Universal cannot nia-Davis) of the fi lm didn’t even offer one this movie! have to resort to shelling out $80 just work out a decent price for 01/13/2005 last “BOO” to take home. Maybe I am biased because I to add a single disc-edition DVD permissions to release a funnier At the fi nal moment, when like my Keaton when he is mak- to my collection, a DVD that is version of This Island Earth, un- (U-WIRE) DAVIS, Calif. - If I am certain the audience was ing people laugh. Well, people not pressed onto solid gold, or less Universal just wants to sit on you’re not in the mood for a meant to be trembling with fear, did laugh in “White Noise”, but I the elusive element rarium, it is potential moneymakers while scary movie but you need a good it became diffi cult to hear the for- feel it might hurt his feelings if he sheer madness. If a DVD gets to the independent seller is making laugh, “White Noise” is the movie mulaic ending over the laughter knew that. be that pricey on the used mar- multiples of his initial purchase, for you. Depicted as excitingly of the audience. All in all, don’t waste your ket, then it has clearly become making money off of Universal. creepy in commercials, “White “White Noise” is the kind of money or your time unless you a “collector’s item.” This means There’s really nothing we can Noise” had a lot of potential to movie that brings out the fi lm di- want to provide material for later that a seller has purchased it do about the fact that these DVDs be one of the scariest movies of rector in all of us. If you plan to conversation, questioning, and for less than retail price and is go out of print, aside from writing 2005. Potential, we have sadly see this movie, be aware that you laughter with movie buddies. Just now netting up to four times nasty letters to the distributors learned, is not enough. will spend the next hour discuss- wait until it is running on TBS. the MSRP, making three times as or buying them from eBay sell- The story sounded great -- a ing what you would have done Trust me, you won’t have to wait much as the initial spending. ers who think that they’re cura- man tragically loses his wife and differently to keep it from suck- very long. Search the internet for some tors for the Louvre, we just have is then visited by her tormented ing. out of print DVDs to grin and bear spirit via static and white noise The movie is also full of and you’ll see this it and hope to get (get it?) on the radio, phones and holes. I am not talking little blatant extortion- lucky, or hope that TV. Slightly scary, but not over dents in the storyline -- think ism. Some examples the powers that the top -- the premise gives just more of giant craters of miss- include Slaughter- be release an even enough to leave you with chills ing plot, fi lled with nothing house-Five, Jude, cooler edition of from this real-life phenomenon. but unanswered questions: The Killer: Criterion the DVD, so we can This is what I thought it would Who were those three men? Edition and Mys- have even more be. I was wrong. We all were. Why did they do this, why did tery Science Theater movie-enjoying “White Noise” spends the fi rst they do that? What was the 3000: The Movie. pleasure. Of course, half of the movie building seri- point of this? What did that If anyone can fi nd it’ll only be a mat- ous tension. As a viewer, you feel mean? Why did she ...? these DVDs avail- ter of years before you aren’t sure what is about to The lost answers to the able at a price less the DVD itself has happen, but you are ready to be questions seemed important than the MSRP, tell gone the way of the scared. to the plot, unless the goal of me, for real, I want Laserdisc, VHS, or The suspense builds and builds the movie was to leave the au- imdb to buy the latter three. dare I say, the Betamax, and the until you fi nally arrive at one of dience wondering what was The fact that people are charg- next generation might not even the lamest plot-twists in scary- going on. If that’s the case, ing so much for the DVDs is rea- have a physical form. Thus, the movie history. I found myself then excellent work. son enough for the manufactur- movies will have a lower chance looking at the screen and saying Michael Keaton, what were Michael Keaton stars in White ers to either do another printing of going out of stock. This makes in disappointed disgust, “Are you you thinking signing on for Noise, directed by Geoffrey Sax. or release a brand new edition of the future look just a tiny bit bet- serious?” this one? “Beetle Juice” was the DVD. Think about it: no one ter. Friday, January 14, 2005 ENTERTAINMENT 5 ‘Call of Duty: Finest Hour’ misses mark Top music honors of 2004 From Staff Reports war veteran. The California Aggie (U. Califor- Graphics are a similar mixed Mike Jones to include it. Bloomington’s Mur- nia-Davis) bag. Some characters boast fan- Staff Writer der By Death has formed a niche 01/13/2005 tastic textures and equally good fan base there over the last few animations, while others are Three years ago, music expe- years. However, with the release (U-WIRE) DAVIS, Calif. - Al- sorely lacking. The same can also rienced a much needed revival, of Who Will Survive, they moved though the World War II/kill-lots- be said for the game’s many lo- amd there have since been count- into a bigger arena of fans. A con- of-Nazis genre of video games has cales, explosions, environmental less excellent . The only cept at its core, it tells the been overdone as of late, I was effects and cut scenes. downside is that it’s diffi cult to story of a small western town that excited about getting a chance to The gameplay of “Finest Hour” narrow down those albums into is visited by the Devil himself. review “Call of Duty: Finest Hour.” adds nothing new to the mix. a few of the top choices. Anyway, While drinking the night away The series has always been fun to Players run along the narrow lev- meticulously chosen, and fash- in a local bar the Devil is shot play -- never the absolute best as els and pick up guns or ammo ionably late, here are some of the three times in the back by a local far as fi rst-person-shooters go, from fallen opposition forces - best of 2004. townsman. Bleeding in a hospital but not bad either. - and then they shoot more bad bed, he vows revenge on the en- I was hoping to see a polished, guys. Little exploration, if any, is tire town. What follows is an epic writing stumbled on Warn- epic and enthralling gem of a needed in order to complete each passage through the town’s vices, ing, and although the album game that captured the frantic mission as the soldiers are tightly losses, and ultimately, their deci- had many good tracks, some of and awe-inspiring battles the de- enclosed by impassable piles “We wanted to play real instru- sion to stand against the Devil. them sounded uncomfortable velopers attempted to recreate. of rubble, locked gates or deep ments and get them to sound like Sound interesting at all? Even if and forced. Maybe it’s just that Disappointingly, this just trenches. machines.” the lyricism isn’t excellent, the fans are now getting used to the wasn’t the case. Instead, Finest It’s almost as if every aspect of -Chris Dangerous music is remarkable. A combina- idea that Green Day is no longer Hour continues the tradition of the game was intentionally kept tion of western style piano, hor- the same band after 10 years, or the Call of Duty series by being from standing out in any way. ror movie cello, and heavy guitar maybe American Idiot really is an above-average game with nu- Judging by the fi ner points of the tracks produce a sound unparal- a brilliantly written album, but merous issues that keep gamers game, the development team ob- leled by any other band. If you’re somehow the reaction has been from ever getting truly immersed viously has a great deal of skill looking for an original sound, overwhelmingly positive. I be- in the world around them. but was rushed to completion this is your album. lieve it’s a combination of both “Finest Hour” boasts that it by an overly ambitious release of these elements, along with gives the player a chance to play schedule. Interpol the album’s connection to rela- as Russian, British, and Ameri- In spite of its problems, Call Antics vant and important issues, many can soldiers in varying locales of Duty: Finest Hour is still a younger individuals are con- and theaters. Although the idea game worth playing. More of a “I worked so hard on it that I cerned about at the moment. It’s sounds good on paper, the ac- game that will wait for you dur- cried the fi rst time I heard it.” hard to say whether American Id- tion jumps from soldier to soldier ing an idle Saturday rather than -Paul Banks iot will have the staying power of too fast to ever allow the player the type that keeps you up play- Dookie, but all I know is that I’ve to bond with any single charac- ing all night, Finest Hour delivers been listening to it since it was ter. If the changes were fewer in enough on its premise that even released, and I still like it more number or spread throughout a the most jaded of gamers will Released in July, Tyrannosau- every time I hear it. I personally longer game, the idea could have enjoy their time with it. Worth a rus Hives presents a strange, applaud Green Day for releasing kept the game feeling fresh and rental or two? Yes. Worth buying? robotic . Instead of the hands-down best album of original. Instead, the game left Probably not until it drops to the rehashing the sound from their 2004. me feeling like a schizophrenic bargain bin. 2000 LP , The Hives borrowed infl uences from some unlikely places, including Devo and Kraftwork, in an effort to make a much tighter album this time around. Some of the songs still have the high tempo style of Veni Vidi Vicious, but the album is simply produced on a different level, giving even those This album was the most an- high tempo songs a separate feel. ticipated of the year for me per- The fi rst single from the album, sonally, because it’s the follow up “”, is more com- to my pick for 2002’s best album, posed then any single off their Turn on the Bright Lights. The prior two releases. The most im- members of Interpol have said pressive tracks are the especially they put a lot of work into Antics, mechanical “Love in Plaster” and that hard work can be heard. and “Diabolic Scheme”. Simply Even though Antics does sound put, these two tracks have an similar to Bright Lights, it offers absolutely original sound. Not two distinct styles of songwriting only that, but they still manage on one album. Tracks like “Slow to achieve the very high energy Hands” and “Evil” showcase the Crazy weather we’ve been level that is characteristic of the same dark, layered sound of their Hives. These two songs alone previous release. But while Bright are almost enough to put Tyran- Lights offered only the gloomy nosaurus Hives on my list. Brace feel of a younger band, some yourself though; this one might of the tracks on Antics actually having. Why not have Papa take awhile to develop an ear for. come off as being romantic. “Take You on a Cruise” is the fi nest ex- Murder By Death ample of this new sound, and Who Will Survive and What Will possible new direction, for Inter- be Left of Them? pol. My impression is that Antics John’s deliver their is not quite as good as Turn on “This album is not trying to be the Bright Lights, but it’s very artsy, or profound or anything far from the sophomore slump more than the story it is.” that many bands experience. The -Adam Turla pressure builds when everyone is delicious pizza? telling you your fi rst album is the best thing they’ve heard for years, but Interpol managed to handle the pressure more like a veteran band then the young group they are.

Green Day Extra Large 1234 WABASH AVE. One Large American Idiot One-Topping One-Topping “Rage and love. The story of my Store Hours... life” Mon-Wed: 9am - 1am –Billie Joe Armstrong 99 Thurs-Sat: 9am - 2am 99 Sunday: 12pm - 12am Campus Only Campus Only With their 2000 effort Warn- ONLY 9 ONLY 7 ing, the guys from Green Day Limited Delivery Area - Coupon Required Limited Delivery Area - Coupon Required OK, so this album was released attempted to move beyond the ORIGINAL OR THIN CRUST WHERE ORIGINAL OR THIN CRUST WHERE AVAILABLE Expires: 5/28/04. Not valid AVAILABLE Expires: 5/28/04. Not valid in late 2003, but it didn’t really pop-punk style that made them with any other offer. Valid only at participat- 232-PAPA with any other offer. Valid only at participat- catch on until 2004. So I decided huge in the 90’s. But the song ing locations. Customer pays all applicable ing locations. Customer pays all applicable sales tax. Additional toppings extra. sales tax. Additional toppings extra. 6 OPINIONS The Rose Thorn Random thoughts on 2015

would be possible otherwise. People with global experience This relationship can help stu- will be the fi rst ones promoted At least dents do better in classes, and to managerial positions because it helps professors to better do they will be the ones with the ex- I have their jobs. So whatever decisions perience to understand global opinions this initiative leads to, we must commerce. There is already evi- be mindful of what they would dence of this beginning to hap- do to enrollment. pen. Recently students in the Everyone here knows Rose is Computer Science department John Kropf very good at training successful traveled to Uppsala, Sweden to Opinions Editor scientists and engineers. And investigate the role Information we need to do everything we can Technology could play in the Recently Dr. Midgley intro- to keep that tradition alive. We Swedish or United States health duced an initiative he called also have to be proactive about care systems. This is exactly the “2015: A conversation about our seeking out burgeoning indus- kind of thing that Rose should do Courtesy Rose-Hulman News future”. This initiative provides tries, because today’s cottage more of, because it helps the stu- International Project: Students and faculty an open forum for discussion industries are often tomorrow’s dents see problems differently, from Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology joined colleagues from on the Rose-Hulman website, as biggest employers. However, and it helps the Institute to be Sweden’s Uppsala University on a project that examined on online well as efforts to contact alumni we shouldn’t act with too much better known in the world. medical training system for use by doctors throughout the world. and SGA to fi nd out how the Rose haste, especially when jobs in Rose can also get a different community would like to see the the fi eld aren’t materializing as perspective on the educational Student life is also an impor- I didn’t understand 2015 at school change in the future. fast as some have predicted. We process by becoming more in- tant consideration when think- fi rst. But the more I read and I could go use the online fo- need to be sure that traditional volved in student exchange pro- ing about the future of the in- hear about it, the more interest- rums like everyone else, but see- disciplines aren’t ignored as Rose grams. Just as students from the stitute. Student life has gotten ing it becomes. It’s a chance for ing as I am the opinions editor begins to offer different types of United States can gain experi- continually better in the year everyone to tell the administra- of the paper, I’ll just write what I degrees. Balance is the key. ence and expertise from study- I’ve been here. The Apartment tion what he or she thinks about think here. Rose defi nitely needs to ex- ing around the world, students Style residence hall adds some the way in which the institute First, the size of the institute pand its current offerings in the from foreign countries can gain much needed conveniences to is proceeding and what kind of is one of its greatest strengths. It creation and advertisement of that same experience studying campus, and the events planned changes would make it a better was one of the more important more study-abroad and foreign here. Those same students can by SGA all give students some- place for everyone. It gives the deciding factors leading me to cooperation programs. We are give the administration a fresh thing to do with their free time. students and alumni power to choose Rose over other Midwest- a member of a global economy, perspective on improving educa- Chauncey’s was a great idea. If make the institute a better place ern schools with highly regarded and no longer is it suffi cient for tion. Greater numbers of people the administration continues in than ever before and looks as if engineering departments. The engineers to graduate knowing thinking about what can make its current fashion, the future for it will help the administration to small size allows a better stu- engineering well, but very little Rose a better place to be and to student recreation at Rose looks make the decisions the students dent professor relationship than else about the outside world. learn can only be a good thing. bright. want them to. News networks Letter to the editor in decline Almost as long as I can re- ing years of their member, I’ve been speaking previous educa- Dan Vance I agree one hundred percent French. I was given this oppor- tion because fur- The Communicator with CNN’s decision to take tunity when I was nine years thering it is not an (Indiana-Purdue U.-Fort Wayne) “Crossfi re” off the airwaves. old and my parents (both of option. A com- They have the right idea and whom are engineers) were ap- mon response I Recently, the news channel the right attitudes about news. proached by General Motors might get to the CNN decided to do away with But, it would be better if they to accept positions overseas aforementioned their semi-popular discussion actually followed their own in France. Stepping on to for- proposal is well, show “Crossfi re.” CNN says that rules on “head butting debate eign soil to continue my life in go to ISU. I have this decision is part of a move- shows.” “Larry King Live” has a foreign country has mirrored investigated this ment away from “head butting been on the airwaves for years, my steps into my foreign lan- possibility and debate shows.” and I understand that. I also un- guage education and culture have found nu- “CNN is a different animal. We derstand that it is not exactly a appreciation. Following my merous prob- report the news. Fox talks about show where tempers fl are often. three years abroad, I returned lems. In addition the news. They’re very good at But, “Larry King Live” is a show to the United States to amass a to the time com- what they do, and we’re very where King and a guest discuss total of ten years of study of the mitment on top good at what we do,” CNN Presi- and often debate a broad range French language and culture as of our already dent Jonathan Klein said in a of news topics. And yes, there is a whole. hectic schedules, recent interview, explaining the some occasional head butting. So, as you can imagine, in the ISU supports a slight change in format. So do away with it. diffi cult search for my dream semester system, Meanwhile, as CNN proclaims Televised discussion forums college in the United States, I which is in huge that shows of this content be- have no place on cable. If myself was disappointed to fi nd that confl ict with our long on a channel like FOX, they or any other news viewers want Rose-Hulman Institute of Tech- holidays and continue to promote shows like to see people debate or rant nology fell short of my goals quarter system “Larry King Live,” which is vir- about the news, there is this nif- and expectations. Honestly, the here at Rose. Af- tually the same show as “Cross- ty new invention called the In- fact that I could not continue ter analyzing my fi re.” ternet where discussion forums with my language study at the options at ISU for It is this kind of hypocritical are not only welcome, but also college that to all appearances French study, as behavior that is taking the view- encouraged. has almost everything, was dis- well as my sanity, er interest out of the 24/7 news One of the more publicized couraging and edged me in the I’ve checked it off channels. debates during the political sea- direction of not even attending. the list. www.birkbinnard.com CNN is just the most recent son (outside of George W. Bush As I continued to investigate As a sopho- company to outcast themselves and John Kerry) was that of the college, I came to discover more advisor in in this way. Channels like MSN- “Crossfi re” co-host Tucker Carl- that Rose endorsed three other Mees Hall, I’m not the only stu- that we should take advantage BC and FoxNews have followed son and comedian Jon Stewart. languages-Spanish, German, dent who believes that bring- of the 2015 proposal by voicing the same standards of being a During the course of the verbal and Japanese. German and ing French into our lives here that French should be incor- hard hitting news resource, yet jabs that the two exchanged, Spanish aren’t surprising; they at RHIT would be far from a porated into our education to still allow themselves to resort to Stewart hit the problem head on are common in most educa- hindrance. French isn’t just give RHIT more appeal as an shows that are little more than in implying that these types of tional systems in this nation. any old language, it brings with institute with a well-rounded mainstream toilet humor. shows were doing a disservice to Japanese really didn’t surprise it amazing culture and history curriculum. One of MSNBC’s top draws is viewers. me much either. It is a highly that is still appreciated by many To share this opinion with “Countdown” with Keith Olber- And while I suppose that rec- technically oriented language in today’s society. Thus, French President Midgley as well as man. And yes, it is one of the ognizing this problem is the and would be highly benefi cial can only offer an edge to stu- the Board of Trustees, I have more comical news programs fi rst step (maybe some kudos to to many engineering students dents in the coming world as created a petition to bring that you may fi nd. And for a CNN), not many of these com- in foreign affairs, business, etc. well as their educations and French into our curriculum. If younger audience, it is a way to pany representatives are really However, the fact that French future job possibilities. Presi- you support this idea, please pull them into what is going on willing to risk viewer ship just to was not present in Rose-Hul- dent Midgley’s Conversation add your voice as well by in the world. But it is not what maintain integrity. man’s curriculum continues to 2015 concept has now given signing the petition online at MSNBC is supposed to be about. Oh, they say that they are will- hold my attention. us as Rose-Hulman’s students, http://thiscause.org/p/menu. “Countdown” is not news at all. ing to, but in the end it is those Here is my proposal—why the opportunity and ability to php?p=Hegwood88123DB . It is merely an attempt to draw people who go back on their not incorporate French into voice our opinions, not only for viewership, taking away the puri- word. People like them make Rose-Hulman? I know I am our education but for the con- Emma Hegwood ty of reporting news and turning the rest of us credible reporters not the only student attending tinuing educational needs of Class of 2006 it further into a giant monopoly. look bad. RHIT who is at the risk of wast- future Rose students. I believe Biomedical Engineering Friday, January 14, 2005 SPORTS 7

Last week’s Engineer swimmers back Upcoming sports to winning ways athletic

scores Andrew Twarek events Staff Writer Men’s Basketball Men’s Basketball Friday, January 14 The Engineer swimming and (9-5, 3-0 SCAC) Rose-Hulman diving team has been in the wa- vs, Southwestern Jan. 7 ter since last October, hosting (at Texas) Rose-Hulman 66 two meets before Thanksgiving. 9 p.m. ET vs. Millsaps 63 It was a full two months before they were back in competition at the SRC pool last Saturday, but Sunday, January 116 Jan. 9 they didn’t show any signs of dry- Rose-Hulman Rose-Hulman 74 ing up. Three broken records lat- vs. Trinity vs. Oglethorpe 55 er, both teams had defeated Mil- (at Texas) likin University, and the women 1 p.m. ET earned their fi rst dual meet vic- Women’s Basketball tory in three seasons. Junior Chrissy Guidi and fresh- Women’s Basketball (8-6, 1-2 SCAC) man Adam Effi nger scored back- Friday, January 14 to-back school records to lead the Rose-Hulman Jan. 7 Engineer charge. Guidi swam the vs, Southwestern Rose-Hulman 55 200-yd butterfl y in 2:41.91 just (at Texas) vs. Millsaps 65 before Effi nger recorded a 1:57.91 Photo by Andrew Twarek 7 p.m. ET time in the men’s 200 fl y. Head coach Michael Caruso loosens his tie after being dunked by his team to celebrate their victory over Millsaps. Jan. 9 The women’s squad relied on Sunday, January 116 Rose-Hulman 61 six fi rst place fi nishes to take the Rose-Hulman 90-87 win, including two school bargen, and Frank were able to rensen (49.94) and sophomore vs. Oglethorpe 40 vs. Trinity records. They opened the after- edge the Big Blue by 10 seconds Matt Wittstein (53.61) rounded noon by setting a new record in in the 400-yd freestyle relay to out the top three. (at Texas) the 400-yd Medley Relay. Senior take the victory. The Engineers have two home 3 p.m. ET Swimming Jessica Frank, sophomores Erin The Rose-Hulman men relied meets left this season. They host O’Connor and Elane Kratz, and on depth to capture a 107-73 win Monmouth in the Rose-Hulman Swimming and Track Jan. 8 freshman Anita Isch combined over Millikin. They recorded fi ve Double Dual Saturday at 1:00 Saturday, January 15 Rose-Hulman vs. for a 4:19.81 time to better the fi rst place fi nishes, adding a one- p.m. Indiana State University Rose-Hulman mark set last year. two-three fi nish in both the free- and Vincennes will also go head- Millikin at SRC hosts Double Dual Frank also earned individu- style sprints. to-head at the event. Men - 1st al fi rsts in the 200-yd freestyle Effi nger led the way with his After two weeks on the road, Track - Noon Women -1st (2:03.98) and the 200-yd back- school record 200 fl y, and won a Senior Day will be February 5, Swimming - 1 p.m. stroke (2:23.87) as an exhibition 50-yd freestyle victory in 22.11 sec. in a 1:00 meet against SCAC rival swimmer. Dan Freve and junior Aaron Knox DePauw University. Despite their efforts, Millikin fi nished in 22.64 sec and 22.79 sec To wrap up the season, Rose- Teams in bold denote was able to cling to an 83-79 lead to take second and third. Hulman will travel to San Anto- Games in bold denote winners. going into the fi nal event. The Knox earned fi rst place in the nio, Texas, for competition in the Engineers’ team of Isch and se- 100-yd freestyle with a time of SCAC Championships in a four- home games niors Jamie Myers, Alison Has- 49.85 sec. Freshman Jacob So- day event February 16th-19th. 2005 NFL Divisional Playoffs

vs. vs. Indianapolis Colts New England Patriots (12-4) (14-2) Pittsburgh Steelers New York Jets (15-1) (10-6) Where: Gillette Stadium Foxborough, Massachusetts Where: Heinz Field Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania When: Sunday, Jan. 16 4:30 p.m. ET on CBS When: Saturday, Jan. 15 4:30 p.m. ET on CBS

vs. vs.

St. Louis Rams Atlanta Falcons Minnesota Vikings Philadelphia Eagles (8-8) (11-5) (8-8) (13-3) Where: Georgia Dome Where: Veterans Stadium Atlanta, Georgia Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

When: Saturday, Jan. 15 When: Sunday, Jan. 16 8:00 p.m. ET on FOX 1:00 p.m. ET on FOX Volume 40, Issue 14 I know a girl who’s got a record machine. Friday, January 14, 2005 This Day In History In 1896, Carlo Ponzi, creator of the Pyramid Scheme, immigrates to the U.S. Pass this fact on to fi ve of your friends.

In Addition Evidently, Indiana’s weather is pretty much just like regular weather, except that it’s much more effi cient about it.

ERRATUM: Wacky Prof Quotes Not only did Aaron Meles write last week’s much-lauded Top Ten, but he also developed cold fusion and FTL technology, and “You can go to sleep if you want.” is holding them in trust until humanity is mature enough to use --Prof. Moloney, justifying our tuition their power responsibly. “I think there might be some ethical concerns with giving a whole row of students strep throat.” 2015 --Prof. Cecil, on bioethics in the classroom Alexander J. Clerc In case you don’t read the papers (which you obviously “Thank God you don’t have to take that class.” do) there’s supposed to be a big buzz around campus about --Prof. Leisner, on Complex Analysis our goals and aspirations for the year 2015. If you go to our homepage and then take a step back, you’ll fi nd the logo which “...and then they held me down and beat me...” will take you to the message board. But don’t bother reading any --Prof. House, on Humanities Department meetings posts. I already checked them out, and they’ve all got the wrong idea. Let me tell you what Rose-Hulman will really be like ten “I got overexcited and couldn’t stop.” years from today. In the year 2015… --Prof. Hoover, on premature prelab performance • Computers (that crazy fad…) will be obsolete. We should “I swear I slept through my graduate degree.” begin plans to ship the CSs to a remote Pacifi c Island where --Prof. Sutterer, on taking naps in class they can spend all day arguing over Java and C++ and be happy forever. “Oh modulus, make my pants look cool!” • Due to grade infl ation, the average GPA will be 3.99, but it will --Prof. Livesay, on mathematic techniques still be impossible to maintain a 4.0 in this freakin’ place. • Elephants will be extinct. We’ll have to change our mascot to “I’m not on any drugs today!” Rosie the dead Elephant. --Prof. Kubota, on cheerfulness • The male-to-female ratio will reach a stable 50:50 until Dr. Clerc scares all the girls away. “It’s kind of like hitting yourself over the hammer with a • I will be Dr. Clerc. Actually, that will just be my nickname. I’ll head…” be working here as a custodian and I’ll scare girls away. --Prof. Eccles, banging his head against the whiteboard • We’ll be taken over by our sister school in Japan and be re- named Super Happy Rose-Hulman Number One Institute of “I am strange.” Fun ^_^. --Prof. Adams • The ECE department will fi nally offer an area minor in fl ux capacitors. “I always enjoy shocking people.” • We’ll all have Rose-Hulman degrees by then, so representatives --Prof. Hoover, on job perks of various companies will stop by our houses regularly to drop off buckets of money. “If I was going to dress up for a party, I’d dress up as a T-cell... something immunological.” Top Ten Popular New Classes --Prof. Cecil, on costume parties 10. Prank Design 9. History of Disco Fever “Just think of how many trees have been killed and PHD theses have been written because of this intellectual 8. The Hertz Fallacy masturbation.” 7. Pig Latin Language and Culture --Prof. Gohre, on theoretical indiscretion 6. Workplace Voodoo 5. Introduction to Naps Send your prof quotes or other humor material to 4. Advanced Procrastination fl [email protected] 3. Pain Tolerance Lab 2. Introduction to Illogical Design Herbig’s Pun of the Week 1. Applications of a Drinking Game I went to FoodTV.com and it left an oatmeal-raisin cookie -Aaron Meles on my browser. The Little Line o’ Litigious Lard: The content of The Flipside is intended to be purely humorous, and it does not represent the opinions of the Rose Thorn or Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. It doesn’t represent anybody’s opinions, so don’t go whining to the editors or anything. Really. All material is copyright of its owner. Why do you all treat me like that? I have feelings too!