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Type of Paper: Code Transcript Q&A Georgia’s Democratic Path: Past, Present and Future Irakli Alasania Minister of Defence, Georgia Chair: James Nixey Head, Russia and Eurasia Programme, Chatham House 29 January 2013 The views expressed in this document are the sole responsibility of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the view of Chatham House, its staff, associates or Council. Chatham House is independent and owes no allegiance to any government or to any political body. It does not take institutional positions on policy issues. This document is issued on the understanding that if any extract is used, the author(s)/ speaker(s) and Chatham House should be credited, preferably with the date of the publication or details of the event. Where this document refers to or reports statements made by speakers at an event every effort has been made to provide a fair representation of their views and opinions, but the ultimate responsibility for accuracy lies with this document’s author(s). The published text of speeches and presentations may differ from delivery. Transcript: Irakli Alasania James Nixey: Ladies and gentlemen, how many ministers do you know who would come after just a few months into their new appointment and speak so fluently, so widely, without notes, just like that. I think that’s an extraordinary achievement in itself and perhaps goes to testify to what I was saying earlier about Irakli’s exceptional abilities. I would also say, having chaired the minister two or three times here now in different guises, that that optimism that you talked about just now is not an optimism that you shared with us just two years ago. It shows, ladies and gentlemen, how quickly things can change in that part of the world – for better, sometimes worse I have to say, but not in Georgia. It’s easy to get dispirited about this region of the world, the South Caucasus and Central Asia, Russia, but in fact this is not a stagnant region and it’s not a stagnant country. That’s for certain. I will open it up but maybe I will make the first question, if you don’t mind, using the privilege of the chair. The eyes of the world are on Georgia – understandably. It’s unavoidable in a 24-hour news cycle, and Georgia’s history makes it perhaps stand out more than many other countries in the region. Clearly people are going to be judging, rightly or wrongly, for better or worse. A lot of academics, people who sit on the fence – like me, here – pontificating from London and abroad, we tend to say: give it time, too early to say, too soon to say. At what point, especially with elections coming up at the end of this year and in two years, as you say, at what point do you think that we will begin to see – I know what you’re going to say. You’re going to say you can already see changes. But at what point do you think it’s fair to sort of begin to really pick Georgia out as a shining example in the Eastern Partnership, or in various international structures? How long do we need to wait to see real, substantial, tangible difference from what went on before? Irakli Alasania: Definitely it’s going to need time. Even in the new government we understand we have to stand the test of time in the coming year. How well we are going to prepare our society and our system, first of all, for the next elections; how we are going to demonstrate more and more that cohabitation is working; and how we are going to put forward the reforms that are very long-range – this will be demonstrated in this year. So I think 2013 is a crucial year for us as well to start implementing the aspirations that we were campaigning on to the www.chathamhouse.org 2 Transcript: Irakli Alasania Georgian people, and also it’s going to be crucial for you to have something to assess in Georgian progress. I think the crucial year will be 2013. But again, to be more, I would say, on the safe side – to have more in-depth analysis of Georgia’s consolidation of democracy – will be after the local elections: how well we are going to prepare for this and how well we are going to redistribute power, which never happened in before Georgia, to the regions, to the local communities and local governments. This is going to be the biggest test of Georgia and I’m pretty sure we’re going to be successful in facing this challenge. Question 1: I have a question regarding the 2008 war. It cost some billions of taxpayers’ money and also loss of trust of people in South Ossetia. Will the operation in the war be investigated and will the fact-finding commission be set up by Georgian authorities, or a parliamentary commission or something like that? Irakli Alasania: I declared as a minister just a month or so ago that I’m looking forward to commissioning the study – expert study, military study actually – of the past 20 years. What kind of military lessons learned we can acquire from history. But I want to make sure that everybody understands that this is not going to be the way to finger-point or blame someone inside. I want to make sure that from the military standpoint the conduct of the military operation – again, on the strategic, operational and tactical level: how it went, what were the decisions that made this kind of unsuccessful operation – I want to feed this back to the defence strategy and the doctrine of Georgia. So this is purely a military lessons learned commission. This is what I’m looking at. If, of course, there will be grounds for us to see the kind of criminal misconduct of someone, it’s going to take other agencies to look at it. But my mission is not to finger-point politically because it is way too difficult and I don’t think we’re ready in Georgia to really impartially assess what happened. Basically what happened – we all know. Georgia is under occupation. The sovereign state was occupied by the neighbouring country. It was the first attempt after the breakup of the Soviet Union to militarily change the borders. The international community is not accepting this. Whether it’s enough what they’re doing is a different issue. We don’t have illusions that we can change the existing status quo pretty soon, but I’m pretty sure it will be changed. If www.chathamhouse.org 3 Transcript: Irakli Alasania you look at the history of Georgia for three millennia, so many times we were chopped up, sliced up by the neighbours but then Georgians got together and stitched our country back. So this is exactly what’s going to happen but it takes patience and time. This is why the exercise that we are thinking is not about politically blaming someone, it is to learn the lessons from our military mistakes, not to make them in the future. Question 2: I want to actually salute your nation for the democratic transformation that you have gone through. We have been to Georgia and been impressed both by some of the people in the government and also by the opposition. The ambassador here is witness to that – thank you for your assistance. I also want to support what you said: Georgia is not only the recipient of democratic lessons or security but we are actually learning from you. A lot of countries in Europe, there are populist tendencies, especially in eastern Europe. Let me just mention Hungary, Bulgaria, Macedonia – where I come from – we are all looking at Georgia to see how did Georgia actually manage to overthrow the populist tendencies – let’s call them like that, and not authoritarian – and whether the population will be really ready to embrace democracy. So you are going to be an example that a lot of people will look at and follow, whether democracy really can work. It is also about the democratic path in the future. What would be your message in this context? Can the local population really embrace this kind of narrative you were talking about in the last 30 minutes? Thank you. Irakli Alasania: Definitely I feel that Georgia can be a role model in that. As I mentioned, the political maturity that Georgians demonstrated in the last election is a testament to how much we have learned from our past mistakes. Again, Georgia’s governments were changed either through violence, coups or revolutions. Georgian people firsthandedly [sic] experienced the negative effects of violent change. This election demonstrated that exactly the people took charge. They came out, they voted. Their turnout on the election day was so high that all the barriers that were built there by the previous government were not enough to stop the people from acting, from really putting forward their voice. This is exactly what I feel that Georgia has a new www.chathamhouse.org 4 Transcript: Irakli Alasania commodity to export, a new commodity for people to look at. And I’m very proud of my people. So yes. Question 3: I have a question on the future of the main political actors in Georgia and the future of Georgian Dream. It’s a very diverse political grouping. The prime minister in December spoke of potentially having some sort of competition within Georgian Dream. Can you talk about that? What do you see as the political future of the United National Movement and the political future of the prime minister himself? There has been some talk of him leaving after two years.
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