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F-SENIORITY INTEGRATION-May 13, 2013-V8

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F-SENIORITY INTEGRATION-May 13, 2013-V8 In The Matter Of: PREMERGER PILOTS OF CONTINENTAL v. PREMERGER PILOTS OF UNITED SENIORITY INTEGRATION Vol. 8 May 13, 2013 Original File 0513131aalpa01.txt Min-U-Script® 1845 BEFORE THE ARBITRATION BOARD ARBITRATORS DANA E. EISCHEN, ROGER P. KAPLAN, AND DENNIS R. NOLAN - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x In the matter of the seniority : integration between : THE PRE-MERGER PILOTS OF : CONTINENTAL AIRLINES : AND : THE PRE-MERGER PILOTS OF : UNITED AIRLINES : - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - : In re: SENIORITY LIST INTEGRATION: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x VOLUME 8 MAY 13, 2013 The hearing in the above-entitled matter recommenced on the 13th day of May, 2013, at 9:06 a.m., at The Mandarin Oriental Hotel, 1330 Maryland Avenue, SW, Washington DC 20024. BEFORE: ARBITRATOR DANA E. EISCHEN, CHAIRMAN ARBITRATOR ROGER P. KAPLAN ARBITRATOR DENNIS R. NOLAN Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1846 1 2 ON BEHALF OF THE PRE-MERGER PILOTS OF 3 CONTINENTAL AIRLINES, 4 DANIEL M. KATZ, ESQ. 5 Katz & Ranzman, P.C. 6 4530 Wisconsin Avenue, NW, Suite 250 7 Washington, DC 20018 8 (202) 659-1799 9 [email protected] 10 ON BEHALF OF THE PRE-MERGER PILOTS OF 11 UNITED AIRLINES: 12 JEFFREY R. FREUND, ESQ. 13 ROGER POLLAK, ESQ. 14 OSVALDO VAZQUEZ, ESQ. 15 Bredhoff & Kaiser, PLLC 16 805 Fifteenth Street, NW 17 Washington, DC 20005 18 (202) 842-2600 19 [email protected] 20 21 22 Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1847 1 2 ALSO PRESENT: 3 GREG SHOEMAKER, ESQ. - CAL 4 GRANT MULKEY, ESQ. - CAL 5 CAPTAIN JIM BRUCIA - CAL 6 CAPTAIN TONY MONTALTO - CAL 7 CAPTAIN SCOTT BUTCHER - CAL 8 FIRST OFFICER NEAL SCHWARTZ - CAL 9 CAPTAIN WILLIAM BALES - UAL 10 CAPTAIN STEPHEN GILLEN - UAL 11 FIRST OFFICER DAN MADRUGA - UAL 12 FIRST OFFICER JEFFREY RUARK - UAL 13 COURT REPORTER: JOSEPH INABNET 14 INABNET COURT REPORTING (ICR) 15 9250 Mosby Street, Suite 201 16 Manassas, Virginia 20110 17 (703) 331-0212 18 [email protected] 19 20 21 22 Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1848 1 WITNESSES 2 DANIEL AKINS: 3 Cross-examination by Mr. Katz 1854 4 Redirect by Mr. Pollak 1990 5 Recross by Mr. Katz 2005 6 DANIEL MADRUGA: 7 Direct examination by Mr. Freund 2020 8 Cross-examination by Mr. Katz 2085 9 STEVE GILLEN: 10 Direct examination by Mr. Freund 2092 11 CONFIDENTIAL TRANSCRIPT UNDER SEPARATE COVER 12 PAGES 1948 THROUGH 1957 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1849 1 E X H I B I T S 2 EXHIBIT MARKED AND ADMITTED 3 UAL Madruga Exhibits 2019 4 UAL Gillen, Tabs 1 through 5 2098 5 CAL X-11 1867 6 CAL X-12 1877 7 CAL X-13 1917 8 CAL X-14 1930 9 CAL X-15 1935 10 CAL X-16 (CONFIDENTIAL) 1948 11 CAL X-17 1958 12 CAL X-18 2085 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1850 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: We are on the record. 3 Before we begin the cross-examination of 4 Mr. Akins, there's a housekeeping detail or two we 5 need to take care of. 6 Gentlemen. 7 MR. FREUND: Yes. Thank you, Dana. 8 During the course of Mo Garfinkle's 9 testimony, there was some question raised about 10 whether some portion of his exhibits should be 11 treated as confidential. 12 And while the answer to that question is 13 less than crystal clear, Mo has suggested that, out 14 of an abundance of caution, we treat the following 15 pages of his exhibits as confidential. 16 Those would be Exhibit 39, page 10. 17 Exhibit 40 and Exhibit 45, page 2. 18 So I have a feeling they have gone out 19 already, at least some of those have gone out on the 20 Continental website. 21 Be that as it may, for purposes of this 22 record, I think we should treat those exhibits as Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1851 1 confidential. And for publication on the United 2 website, we will delete those exhibits. 3 ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: Is it common sense 4 that the transcript itself does not need adjustment, 5 but rather only the exclusion of these exhibits? 6 MR. FREUND: That's our sense. 7 ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: All right. With that 8 then, did you want to comment, Dan? 9 MR. KATZ: No. 10 I don't want to comment on that. 11 ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: Okay, great. 12 With that then, I'm simply going to give 13 the instruction that all concerned are to treat 14 those designated documents as confidential. 15 If they have been posted, you can't 16 unbreak the egg, but pull down those documents if 17 they're up on anybody's site. 18 MR. KATZ: Excuse me. Maybe I should make 19 a comment. 20 I wasn't listening that carefully to Jeff, 21 but did Jeff say that this confidentiality is not an 22 issue of confidentiality vis-a-vis the Company, but Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1852 1 vis-a-vis DOT regulations? 2 MR. FREUND: I didn't say that, but that's 3 correct. 4 It is not a company issue. It's a DOT 5 regulation issue. 6 And as I said, Mo is acting out of an 7 abundance of caution. He's not entirely certain 8 there would, in fact, be a restriction on the data 9 as it is reflected in those exhibits. 10 But since the issue is raised, suggest 11 that we treat those documents as I have described. 12 MR. KATZ: I just wanted to make that 13 clarification. 14 The DOT regulations talk about 15 international revenue and yield data being secrets 16 in some fashion. And in Delta/Northwest, when 17 Dr. Campbell was testifying about an exhibit that 18 was derived from those data, we closed the hearing 19 and had Joey do the transcript, or whoever it was, 20 do the transcript, a separate confidential portion. 21 I don't recall any of these numbers being 22 spoken about either on direct or cross. So I don't Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1853 1 think that a process needs to be gone through with 2 the transcript. But the exhibit itself should be 3 treated as Jeff suggested. 4 MR. FREUND: That's just what I said about 5 the transcript. 6 I don't think the transcript needs to be 7 dealt with. 8 ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: I think with the 9 joint observations of counsel and my instruction 10 previously issued on the transcript of today's 11 proceedings, that everyone is directed to comply 12 with those directives. 13 We can go forward then at this time. 14 MR. KATZ: Excellent. 15 MR. FREUND: And I'm going to excuse 16 myself and leave Dan to Dan's tender mercies to be 17 protected entirely by Roger Pollock. 18 MR. KATZ: Is it something I said? 19 MR. FREUND: It usually is, but in this 20 case, it's not. 21 ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: Mr. Akins, you are up 22 for cross-examination now. Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1854 1 You were sworn when you gave your 2 testimony. We're not going to swear you again. 3 I'll just remind you, you're still subject to the 4 oath. 5 We'll go forward. 6 CROSS-EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. KATZ: 8 Q Good morning, Mr. Akins. 9 A Good morning, Dan. 10 Q I appreciate your hanging around this 11 luxury hotel for a day while we are busy with other 12 things. 13 A Talk to my mom. 14 Q The record is clear, though -- would you 15 try to call me Mr. Katz, and I'll call you Mr. Akins 16 so the record is clear as to who is talking? 17 A I'll try. 18 ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: This is where you say 19 you can call me Ronny, you can call me Johnny, but 20 don't call me Mr. Johnson. 21 MR. KATZ: I thought you were going to say 22 don't call me late for dinner. Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1855 1 BY MR. KATZ: 2 Q So, Mr. Akins, the first series of your 3 exhibits deals with the calculation using Form 41 4 data, average annual wages per pilot, average 5 benefits per pilot, calculations for block hours, 6 that kind of thing; correct? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And especially in the benefits area, since 9 you have used these databases before, haven't you 10 observed substantial volatility in the way even a 11 single carrier reports these numbers? 12 A The volatility in the reporting or the 13 actual number themselves? 14 Q Well, what would be the difference from 15 your standpoint? 16 They would there be -- 17 A Well, it could be erratic if they report 18 some years and not -- 19 (Interruption by court reporter.) 20 THE WITNESS: They would be erratic if 21 they report some years and not other, as some 22 carriers do. Inabnet Court Reporting (703) 331-0212 1856 1 That's volatility in reporting. 2 BY MR. KATZ: 3 Q Oh, I see. 4 Volatility in the numbers is what I was 5 asking about. 6 A I believe there's some of that, yeah. 7 Q And I don't want you to tell me that you 8 were in junior high school when this was going on, 9 but I left the Labor Board and went to the ALPA 10 Legal Department to start practicing before the 11 Civil Aeronautics Board at ALPA's legal department 12 just about forty years ago, 1973? 13 A Four years ago? 14 Q Forty years ago, in April 1973.
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