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Vol. 739 Tuesday No. 44 9 October 2012 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions House of Lords: Appointments Parliamentary Constituency Boundaries: Review Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012 Railways: Franchises Economic Affairs Committee Membership Motion Justice and Security Bill [HL] Order of Consideration Motion Defamation Bill Second Reading Britain’s Industrial Base Question for Short Debate Grand Committee Education: Further Education Colleges Question for Short Debate UK Trade and Investment Question for Short Debate Health: Cancer Question for Short Debate Bangladesh: Human Rights Question for Short Debate Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. 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Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2012, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 921 House of Lords: Appointments[9 OCTOBER 2012] House of Lords: Appointments 922 say that, sadly, we may lose more over the next two House of Lords years. The question of refreshing the House from time to time therefore arises. Tuesday, 9 October 2012. Lord Grocott: The Minister’s Leader, the Deputy 2.30 pm Prime Minister, has repeatedly said—and I agree with him, which surprises me—that the House of Lords, Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Derby. the Second Chamber, is too big. How can it be that I agree with the Minister’s Leader while he disagrees House of Lords: Appointments with him? Can he explain to us why he disagrees with Question the Deputy Prime Minister? 2.36 pm Lord Wallace of Saltaire: I am very glad to hear that the noble Lord agrees with Nick. We in this Asked By Lord Hunt of Kings Heath House have to be very careful about saying, “We’re all very comfortable here and we all want to stay, and no To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether further one else should be allowed to come in until there has appointments to the House of Lords are expected been a longer process”. Over a five-year period we to be made during the remainder of the current need to consider the balance of the House and the Parliament. question of the occasional refreshment of its Members, and we are certainly not going to close our minds to Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, any appointments that in an interim House. We will certainly encourage will continue to be made in line with the commitment some of the older Members to consider statutory in the coalition programme for government to reflect retirement or a long-term leave of absence. the share of the votes secured by the political parties at the most recent general election. Lord Tyler: My Lords, to avoid understandable suspicion, and indeed accusations, of personal self-interest, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, yesterday the would it not be wise for the Government to give a lead Leader of the House, the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, and say that, as far as Ministers are concerned, no made it clear that, regrettably, he and the Government MPs who voted against the Government’s reform Bill will not support the Bill of the noble Lord, Lord Steel, should be nominated to this House? in the other place. Given that, and given the size of this House, is the Minister really saying that the Lord Wallace of Saltaire: I do not think that I Government are determined to make dozens more ought to answer that question. I am very conscious appointments, to increase the size of the House and to that there are those who, in the Corridors of this shore up the political majority of the Government? House, have said to me, among others, that those who Surely not. are asked to leave the House should be compensated for doing so. To that I would say that membership of Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the idea that this House is a privilege, not a right, and the idea that we are packing the House with coalition Peers is a one has to be bought out before one leaves is not one little idiotic. Of the 122 appointments made since May that should be considered. 2010, nearly one-third, 39, have been Labour Peers. That is not packing the House on one side. The largest Baroness Hayman: Will the Minister now answer a group in the House remains the Labour Benches. question about which the Government have been reticent? One of the ways in which we wish to maintain a To which of the political parties contesting the last vibrant House is to refresh the House from time to general election does the coalition commitment that time. The committee on retirement has proposed that he has reaffirmed today apply? the statutory retirement scheme is now available. We regret that only two Peers have so far availed themselves Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, over lunch I of it. However, 20% of this House is now over 80 and, made a calculation which, even though I was unable to as we know that life expectancy in this House is very find a calculator, I hope was correct. If one were to be good, we encourage others to consider that scheme. strictly accurate, the Labour Party as represented in this House is roughly in tune with the percentage that Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: My Lords, how will my it received in the last election. The noble Lord, Lord noble friend explained to the voters of this country the Pearson of Rannoch, is as good as 10 people. The Government’s policy to reduce the size of the House most underrepresented group, as the noble Baroness, of Commons in order to save public money when they Lady Hayman, knows is of course the Liberal Democrats. are now proposing to increase the size of the House of Lords at public expense, having previously brought Lord Cormack: My Lords, if the Government take forward a Bill arguing the importance of reducing it? this House and Parliament seriously, how can they continue to refuse to contemplate reforms along the Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the Government lines of those included in the Bill introduced by the are not proposing to increase the size of this House. noble Lord, Lord Steel? My noble friend has referred Sadly, we have lost 40 Members since May 2010; I dare to this as an interim House. Some believe that it can be 923 House of Lords: Appointments[LORDS] Parliamentary Constituency Boundaries 924 [LORD CORMACK] Bill which people wish to promote or the original Steel a permanent House, giving permanent value to our Bill. I have worked through several efforts to get the constitution. The Government are flying in the face of Steel Bill through the House, but it has not received that fact. much welcome in particular from a number of hereditary Peers. Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the consensus in this House is not the only factor which has to be Parliamentary Constituency Boundaries: taken into consideration. The House of Commons voted by a substantial majority in favour of the principle Review of an elected second chamber. All three parties had Question the principle of an elected second chamber in their manifestos in the last election and the coalition programme 2.45 pm stated that we will establish a committee to bring Asked By Lord Touhig forward proposals for a wholly or mainly elected upper chamber on the basis of proportional representation. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much it We want to achieve a consensus. I am looking at the has cost to conduct the review of parliamentary noble Lord, Lord Richard, who has laboured very constituency boundaries in the United Kingdom. hard to achieve a consensus on reforms. That is clearly the only long-term way forward. Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, the four Boundary Commissions spent about £5.8 million up to the end Lord Richard: My Lords, the noble Lord said that I of August 2012 on the boundary review. They expect tried very hard to get this House and everybody to to spend about £3.8 million from September 2012 to agree that it should be an elected second chamber.