Volume II Saturday No. 20 20th November, 1965

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DEWAN RA' AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)

OFFICIAL REPORT

CONTENTS

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS [Col. 3189] MOTION: Adjournment of the House [Col. 3194] BREACH OF PRIVILEGE OF THE HOUSE- COMPLAINT BY THE HONOURABLE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS [Col. 3194] BILL: The Supply (1966) Bill [Col. 3196]

DI-CHETAK DI-JABATAN CHETAK KERAJAAN OLEH THOR BENG CHONG, A.M.N., PENCHETAK KERAJAAN 1967 DEWAN RA'AYAT (HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES)

Official Report

Second Session of the Second Dewan Ra'ayat

Saturday, 20th November, 1965 The House met at Ten o'clock a.m.

PRESENT: The Honourable Mr Speaker, DATO' CHIK MOHAMED YUSUF BIN SHEIKH ABDUL RAHMAN, S.P.M.P., J.P., Dato' Bendahara, . the Minister of Home Affairs and Minister of Justice, DATO' DR ISMAIL BIN DATO' HAJI ABDUL RAHMAN, P.M.N. ( Timor). the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' TAN SIEW SIN, J.P. (Melaka Tengah). the Minister of Works, Posts and Telecommunications, DATO' V. T. SAMBANTHAN, P.M.N. (Sungei Siput). the Minister of Transport, DATO' HAJI SARDON BIN HAJI JUBIR, P.M.N. (Pontian Utara). the Minister of Health, ENCHE' BAHAMAN BIN SAMSUDIN (Kuala Pilah). the Minister of Commerce and Industry, DR LIM SWEE AUN, J.P. (Larut Selatan). the Minister for Welfare Services, TUAN HAJI ABDUL HAMID KHAN BIN HAJI SAKHAWAT ALI KHAN, J.M.N., J.P. (Batang Padang). the Minister for Local Government and Housing, ENCHE' KHAW KAI-BOH, P.J.K. (Ulu ). the Minister for Affairs, DATO' TEMENGGONG JUGAH ANAK BARIENG, P.M.N., P.D.K. (Sarawak). the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' V. MANICKAVASAGAM, J.M.N., P.J.K. (Klang). the Minister of Information and Broadcasting, ENCHE' SENU BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Kubang Pasu Barat). the Minister of Lands and Mines, ENCHE' ABDUL-RAHMAN BIN YA'KUB (Sarawak). the Assistant Minister of National and Rural Development, ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN BULON (Bagan Datoh). the Assistant Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, ENGKU MUHSEIN BIN ABDUL KADIR, J.M.N., S.M.T., P.J.K. (Trengganu Tengah). 3183 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3184

The Honourable the Assistant Minister of Finance, DR NG KAM POH, J.P. (Telok Anson). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health, ENCHE' IBRAHIM BIN ABDUL RAHMAN (Seberang Tengah). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour, ENCHE' , K.M.N. (Segamat Selatan). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, ENCHE' ALI BIN HAJI AHMAD (Pontian Selatan). the Parliamentary Secretary to the Deputy Prime Minister, ENCHE' WING SUM (Damansara). WAN ABDUL KADIR BIN ISMAIL, P.P.T. (Kuala Trengganu Utara). WAN ABDUL RAHMAN BIN DATU (Sarawak). TUAN HAJI ABDUL RASHID BIN HAJI JAIS (). ENCHE' ABDUL RAZAK BIN HAJI HUSSIN (Lipis). ENCHE' ABDUL SAMAD BIN GUL AHMAD MIANJI (Pasir Mas Hulu). DATO' ABDULLAH BIN ABDULRAHMAN, Dato' Bijaya di-Raja (Kuala Trengganu Selatan). TUAN HAJI ABDULLAH BIN HAJI MOHD. SALLEH, A.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S. (Segamat Utara). ENCHE' ABU BAKAR BIN HAMZAH (Bachok). TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN ABDULLAH ( Hilir). ENCHE' AHMAD BIN ARSHAD, A.M.N. ( Utara). TUAN HAJI AHMAD BIN SAAID, J.P. (Seberang Utara). CHE' AJIBAH BINTI ABOL (Sarawak). O. K. K. DATU ALIUDDIN BIN DATU HARUN, P.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' AZIZ BIN ISHAK (Muar Dalam). ENCHE' JONATHAN BANGAU ANAK RENANG, A.B.S. (Sarawak). PENGARAH BANYANG ANAK JANTING, P.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' CHAN SIANG SUN (Bentong). ENCHE' CHIA CHIN SHIN, A.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' FRANCIS CHIA NYUK TONG (Sabah). ENCHE' CHIN FOON (Ulu Kinta). ENCHE' D. A. DAGO ANAK RANDEN alias DAGOK ANAK RANDAN (Sarawak). ENCHE' C. V. DEVAN NAIR (Bungsar). ENCHE' EDWIN ANAK TANGKUN (Sarawak). TUAN SYED ESA BIN ALWEE, J.M.N., S.M.J., P.I.S. (Batu Pahat Dalam). DATIN HAJJAH FATIMAH BINTI HAJI ABDUL MAJID (Johore Bahru Timor). DATIN FATIMAH BINTI HAJI HASHIM, P.M.N. (Jitra-Padang Terap). ENCHE' S. FAZUL RAHMAN, A.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' GANING BIN JANGKAT (Sabah). ENCHE' GEH CHONG KEAT, A.M.N. ( Utara). ENCHE' HANAFI BIN MOHD. YUNUS, A.M.N., J.P. (Kulim Utara). 3185 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3186

The Honourable ENCHE' HARUN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Baling). WAN HASSAN BIN WAN DAUD (Tumpat). ENCHE' STANLEY HO NGUN KHIU, A.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN TO' MUDA HASSAN, A.M.N. (Raub). ENCHE' HUSSEIN BIN SULAIMAN (Ulu Kelantan). TUAN HAJI HUSSAIN RAHIMI BIN HAJI SAMAN (Kota Bharu Hulu). ENCHE' IKHWAN ZAINI (Sarawak). PENGHULU JINGGUT ANAK ATTAN, Q.M.C, A.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' KADAM ANAK KIAI (Sarawak). ENCHE' THOMAS KANA (Sarawak). ENCHE' KHOO PENG LOONG (Sarawak). DATO' KHOO SIAK CHIEW, P.D.K. (Sabah). ENCHE' LEE SECK FUN (Tanjong Malim). ENCHE' AMADEUS MATHEW LEONG, A.D.K., J.P. (Sabah). DR (Tanjong). ENCHE' LIM KEAN SIEW (Dato Kramat). ENCHE' T. MAHIMA SINGH, J.P. (Port Dickson). ENCHE' JOSEPH DAVID MANJAJI (Sabah). DATO' DR HAJI MEGAT KHAS, D.P.M.P., J.P., P.J.K. (Kuala Kangsar). ENCHE' MOHD. ARIF SALLEH, A.D.K. (Sabah). DATO' MOHAMED ASRI BIN HAJI MUDA, P.M.K. (Pasir Puteh). ORANG TUA MOHAMMAD DARA BIN LANGPAD (Sabah). ENCHE' MOHD. DAUD BIN ABDUL SAMAD (Besut). ENCHE' MOHAMED IDRIS BIN MATSIL, J.M.N., P.J.K., J.P. (Jelebu-Jempol). ENCHE' MOHD. TAHIR BIN ABDUL MAJID, S.M.S., P.J.K. (Kuala Langat). ENCHE' MOHAMED YUSOF BIN MAHMUD, A.M.N. (Temerloh). WAN MOKHTAR BIN AHMAD (Kemaman). TUAN HAJI MOKHTAR BIN HAJI ISMAIL ( Selatan). ENCHE' MUHAMMAD FAKHRUDDIN BIN HAJI ABDULLAH (Pasir Mas Hilir). TUAN HAJI MUHAMMAD SU'AUT BIN HAJI MUHD. TAHIR, A.B.S. (Sarawak). DATO' HAJI MUSTAPHA BIN HAJI ABDUL JABAR, D.P.M.S., A.M.N., J.P. (Sabak Bernam). ENCHE' MUSTAPHA BIN AHMAD (Tanah Merah). DATO' NIK AHMAD KAMIL, D.K., S.P.M.K., S.J.M.K., P.M.N., P.Y.G.P.. Dato' Sri Setia Raja (Kota Bharu Hilir). ENCHE' NG FAH YAM (Batu Gajah). ENCHE' (Sarawak). TUAN HAJI OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH (Hilir Perak). ENCHE' OTHMAN BIN ABDULLAH, A.M.N. (Perlis Utara). ENCHE' S. RAJARATNAM (). 3187 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3188

The Honourable TUAN HAJI RAHMAT BIN HAJI DAUD, A.M.N. ( Barat). ENCHE' RAMLI BIN OMAR (Krian Darat). TUAN HAJI REDZA BIN HAJI MOHD. SAID, P.J.K., J.P. (Rembau-Tampin). RAJA ROME BIN RAJA MA'AMOR, PJ.K., J.P. (Kuala Selangor). ENCHE' SANDOM ANAK NYUAK (Sarawak). ENCHE' SEAH TENG NGIAB, P.I.S. (Muar Pantai). ENCHE' D. R. SEENIVASAGAM (Ipoh). ENCHE' SIM BOON LIANG (Sarawak). ENCHE' SENAWI BIN ISMAIL, P.J.K. (Seberang Selatan). ENCHE' SNG CHIN JOO (Sarawak). ENCHE' SOH AH TECK (Batu Pahat). PENGIRAN TAHIR PETRA (Sabah). ENCHE' TAJUDDIN BIN ALI, PJ.K. (Larut Utara). ENCHE' TAI KUAN YANG (Kulim Bandar Bharu). ENCHE' TAMA WENG TINGGANG WAN (Sarawak). ENCHE' TAN CHENG BEE, J.P. (Bagan). ENCHE' TAN TOH HONG (Bukit Bintang). ENCHE' TAN TSAK YU (Sarawak). ENCHE' TIAH ENG BEE (Kluang Utara). ENCHE' WEE TOON BOON (Singapore). ENCHE' YEH PAO TZE (Sabah). ENCHE' STEPHEN YONG KUET TZE (Sarawak). TUAN HAJI ZAKARIA BIN HAJI MOHD. TAIB, P.J.K. (Langat).

ABSENT: The Honourable the Prime Minister, Minister of External Affairs and Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports, Y.T.M. PUTRA AL-HAJ, K.O.M. (Kuala ). the Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Defence, Minister of National and Rural Development, TUN HAJI ABDUL RAZAK BIN DATO' HUSSAIN, S.M.N. (Pekan). the Minister of Education, ENCHE' MOHAMED (Kedah Tengah). the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, TUAN HAJI MOHD. GHAZALI BIN HAJI JAWI (Ulu Perak). the Assistant Minister without Portfolio, TUAN HAJI ABDUL KHALID BIN AWANG OSMAN, (Kota Star Utara). the Assistant Minister of Education, ENCHE' LEE SIOK YEW, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Sepang) ENCHE' ABDUL GHANI BIN ISHAK, A.M.N. (Melaka Utara). ENCHE' ABDUL KARIM BIN ABU, A.M.N. (Melaka Selatan). ENCHE' ABDUL RAHMAN BIN HAJI TALIB, P.J.K. (Kuantan). ENCHE' ABDUL RAUF BIN A. RAHMAN, K.M.N., P.J.K. (Krian Laut). 3189 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3190

The Honourable Y.A.M. TUNKU ABDULLAH IBNI AL-MARHUM TUANKU ABDUL RAHMAN, P.P.T. (Rawang). DR AWANG BIN HASSAN, S.M.J. (Muar Selatan). ENCHE' CHAN CHONG WEN, A.M.N. (Kluang Selatan). ENCHE' CHAN SEONG YOON (Setapak). DATU GANIE GILONG, P.D.K., J.P. (Sabah). ENCHE' HAMZAH BIN ALANG, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Kapar). ENCHE' HANAFIAH BIN HUSSAIN, A.M.N. (Jerai). ENCHE' HUSSAIN BIN MOHD. NOORDIN, A.M.N., P.J.K. (Parit). ENCHE' ISMAIL BIN IDRIS (Penang Selatan). DATO' SYED JA'AFAR BIN HASAN ALBAR, P.M.N. (Johor Tenggara). ENCHE' KAM WOON WAH, J.P. (Sitiawan). ENCHE' EDMUND LANGGU ANAK SAGA (Sarawak). DATO' LING BENG SIEW, P.N.B.S. (Sarawak). ENCHE' LIM PEE HUNG, P.J.K. (Alor Star). DR MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD (Kota Star Selatan). ENCHE' MOHD. ZAHIR BIN HAJI ISMAIL, J.M.N. (Sungai Patani). ENCHE' QUEK KAI DONG, J.P. (Seremban Timor). DATO' S. P. SEENIVASAGAM, D.P.M.P., P.M.P., J.P. (Menglembu). ENCHE' SIOW LOONG HIN, P.J.K. (Seremban Barat). ENCHE' SULAIMAN BIN ALI (Dungun). DR TAN CHEE KHOON (Batu). ENCHE' TAN KEE GAK (Bandar Melaka). ENCHE' TOH THEAM HOCK (Kampar). ENCHE' YEOH TAT BENG (Bruas).

PRAYERS to the necessity to tie up their provi­ sions from every angle—health, engi­ (Mr Speaker in the Chair) neering, building capacity and so on. Sir, I can assure this House that I am ORAL ANSWERS TO as anxious as the Honourable Mem­ ber appears to be for this Bill to be QUESTIONS finalised as early as possible. THE WORKERS HOUSING BILL Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Is the delay perhaps due, among other things, 1. Enche' C. V. Devan Nair (Bungsar) to the fact that the Ministry has been asks the Minister of Labour to state engaged in consultations with the trade the reasons for the considerable delay unions on this matter? in presenting to Parliament the Workers (Minimum) Standards of Housing Act Enche' V. Manickavasagam: Sir, and the Regulations thereunder reported there is no confrontation as far as I to have been finalised some time ago. am aware. The Minister of Labour (Enche' Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: Not con­ V. Manickavasagam): Mr Speaker, Sir, frontation! I said consultations with I know that there has been some delay the trade unions. in presenting the Workers Housing Enche' V. Manickavasagam: We Bill to this House. The Bill and the have had discussions and consultations necessary Regulations have unfortu­ with the trade unions and we have nately taken a longer time to be finalised finalised the consultations with the than I envisaged earlier, mainly due trade unions concerned. 3191 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3192

CONSUMERS' ASSOCIATION- bility, or it is going to be a matter of FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE State and Federal responsibility. 2. Enche' C. V. Devan Nair asks the Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: It could be Minister of Commerce and Industry either or both (Laughter). to state if he had now arranged to Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah allocate funds to Consumers' Associa­ (Bachok): Tuan Yang di-Pertua, saya tions to enable these bodies to function hendak bertanya, ia-itu ada-kah pero- effectively. jek hendak membuat jambatan ini— The Minister of Commerce and kalau hendak di-buat berasaskan Industry (Dr Lim Swee Aun): Mr kapada mustahak-nya jambatan itu Speaker, Sir, the Government has kerana ada kaitan-nya dengan keretapi. agreed in principle to provide finan­ Oleh sebab yang saya tahu, dalam cial assistance to the Consumers' Asso­ Tanah Melayu ini, itu-lah satu station ciation. When the Association is yang keretapi-nya tidak sampai, ia-itu registered with the Registrar of Socie­ di-Pulau Pinang. Ada station Penang, ties allocations will be arranged. ada ticket-nya, tetapi keretapi tidak sampai. Ada-kah berasaskan itu yang Enche' C. V. Devan Nair: May we di-buat. know, Mr Speaker, Sir, when it is likely to be registered by the Registrar Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: We have of Societies? I had the impression that not looked into that possibility. the Registrar of Societies was only slow Dr Lim Chong Eu: Mr Speaker, Sir, in registering political parties. the reply made by the Hon'ble Dr Lim Swee Aun: I understand Minister for Works, Posts and Tele­ the Selangor Consumers' Association communications that it could be either has been registered, but what we are or both, of course, creates the absolute waiting for is the registration of the image of the Alliance vacillating. National Consumers' Association. When it comes to Penang, it says that it should be first a bridge, then it could be a bridge or a tunnel and now BETWEEN PENANG it is indefinite; then eventually when ISLAND AND THE MAINLAND- this matter was pressed in the State of CONSTRUCTION OF Penang, it said that the initiative 3. Enche' C. V. Devan Nair asks the should come from the State of Penang. Minister of Works, Posts and Telecom­ When we pressed the State Govern­ munications to give details of any firm ment, the State Government of Penang, proposals which he may have received which is also Alliance, said that it was for the construction of a causeway a matter for the Federal Government. between Penang and the Mainland. We would like very much more than the assuming reply from the Hon'ble The Minister of Works, Posts and Minister. Telecommunications (Dato' V. T. Sam- banthan): Mr Speaker, Sir, as replied The Minister of Finance (Enche' Tan by me to a question by the Honourable Siew Sin): Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no Member for Batu, the concept of linking question of vacillation on the part of Penang to the mainland is a matter for the Alliance Government. As I stated investigation. No firm proposals have in my Budget speech three days ago, been received from any organisation this matter will be looked into by a for the manner in which Penang is to World Bank Mission which we hope be connected with the mainland. will be here soon to look into the overall aspects of economic develop­ Dr Lim Chong Eu (Tanjong): Mr ment in Penang in general; and until Speaker, Sir, may we have a reply from this mission has completed the survey the Hon'ble the Minister of Works, Posts and submitted its report, I think, it will and Telecommunications whether, if be futile to engage in party controversy such a project were carried out, it is a as the Hon'ble Member for Tanjong matter of Federal, or State, responsi­ is trying to do. 3193 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3194 Dr Lim Chong Eu: I was not trying MOTION to engage in party controversy. As a matter of fact, I have made very ADJOURNMENT OF THE careful note over the statements made HOUSE by the Hon'ble Finance Minister in Dato' Dr Ismail: Sir, I beg to move, his Budget speech and I shall deal with "That not withstanding the provisions it in the proper time. This being of Standing Order No. 12, at its rising question time, Sir, the Hon'ble at 1 p.m. this day the House shall stand Minister for Works, Posts and Tele­ adjourned to the next sitting day. communications can well understand the impression left to the people in Enche' Tan Siew Sin: I beg to second Penang when statements are made the motion. both ways. It might not be vacillation, Question put and agreed to, but it might be what you call the two- step Alliance method—neither forward Resolved, That not withstanding the provisions of nor backward, but just sideways and Standing Order 12, at its rising at 1.00 p.m. the other ways. However, Sir, what I this day, the House shall stand adjourned to would like the Hon'ble the Minister to the next sitting day. assure this House is that this question of the construction of a causeway, BREACH OF PRIVILEGE OF THE having been first mooted by the Hon'ble HOUSE—COMPLAINT BY THE Prime Minister himself, is a matter HONOURABLE MINISTER OF which will be carried out vigorously— HOME AFFAIRS a popular term—after this mission has Dato' Dr Ismail: Mr Speaker, Sir, completed its report and within our I rise to bring to your notice a case of life time. breach of privilege of the House by the Hon'ble Member from Sarawak, the Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Sir, I Hon'ble Enche' Stephen Yong Kuet thought the Hon'ble Member under­ Tze on 18th November, 1965. He stood clearly both the answer I gave stated that Mr Justice Hepworth, who to the Hon'ble Member for Bachok as well as the answer I gave to the Mem­ tried the case of the Hon'ble Enche' ber for Bungsar. In both of these, Abdul Rahman bin Hj. Talib, told stress was laid on the work "investiga­ him that his application for citizenship tion". had not been considered or approved; and then again he said that this man, Enche' Abu Bakar bin Hamzah: Mr Justice Hepworth, told this to him Soal tambahan, Tuan Yang di-Pertua, himself. But this is not true. I have saya bersetuju dan saya perchaya here the transcript of the proceedings Kementerian kita akan membuat satu of the House. With your permission, penyiasatan untok mengadakan tam- Sir, I will have to refresh the Hon'ble Member's mind on the transcript. bak di-antara Prai dengan Pulau Pinang, jika mustahak. Jadi, ketika dia This is what the Hon'ble Mr Stephen membuat investigation itu, ada-kah Yong said: "Sir, I am reliably in­ Menteri kita ini akan memasokkan formed, up to now, I understand, that timbangan sama untok hendak mem- his application has not been considered beri wang kapada Kelantan sebab or approved." Then Sir, I got up and jambatan ini di-buat untok Negeri said that the Hon'ble Member's state­ Pulau Pinang? (Pause) Tuan Yang di- ment says that this particular judge's Pertua, ada-kah bahasa Melayu saya application for citizenship was delayed. tidak betul, maka Menteri kita tidak I challenged that statement. Mr menjawab; atau pun Menteri kita Stephen Yong Kuet Tze said that, "I sudah marah sangat pada saya tidak have reliably been informed that this beri saya berchakap hari ini? is so"; and then I challenged him again, Sir. I said, "I challenge the Hon'ble Dato' V. T. Sambanthan: Betul. Member because he has no right to make a statement which is very specific, Mr Speaker: Barangkali terkeluar. which is untrue. If he is uncertain, he 3195 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3196

must not say it". Then the Hon'ble I was asked by the Chief Justice to take up Enche' Stephen Yong said: "Sir, I am the case." told by this man himself. I cannot say Sir, that was the letter in today's whether what he told me is true and Straits Times, in which Mr Justice then Mr Stephen Yong went on, quoting Hepworth had said that he had become Mr Hepworth; he said that Mr a Federal citizen long before he was Hepworth said, "My application has asked by the Chief Justice to take up been delayed". Then the Hon'ble the Rahman Talib's case. Member said, "How can I, as a mem­ ber of Parliament, say that I cannot Mr Speaker: The Honourable the accept his word whether it is true or Minister of Home Affairs had sub­ not." Then my colleague Enche' Abdul mitted a complaint of breach of Rahman bin Yakub: asked this ques­ privilege in respect of statements made tion: "Does he", I mean the Hon'ble by the Honourable Mr Stephen Yong, Member, "accept it and believe that the Member from Sarawak, in this it was true. That is the very point". If House. It is necessary for me to make he accepts that, he accepts the res­ a ruling as to whether there is a prima ponsibility for the accuracy of state­ facie case of breach of privilege against ment of fact. Mr Stephen Yong replied: Mr Yong before the complaint is trans­ "I believe it, Sir, but I do not know mitted to the Committee of Privileges whether I can say that it is actually for consideration. I will make my ruling true." Then Mr Stephen Yong later on known to this House on Monday went further and I challenged him morning. again I said, "The Hon'ble Member BILL has made a specific allegation which is a very serious one. If the Hon'ble THE SUPPLY (1966) BILL Member makes that allegation he must be quite sure of his facts; otherwise he Second Reading must withdraw what he has said". And Order read for resumption of debate this is what Mr Stephen Yong said: on motion, "That the Bill be now read "If the Minister is really assuring us a second time" (17th November, 1965). that in fact it is not correct then I am Enche' Lim Kean Siew (Dato Kra- prepared to accept his word and with­ mat): Mr Speaker, Sir, we have all, draw it, but I like it to be known that I am sure, heard with varying degrees I have made this statement not without of attention the Budget speech of the any basis.". Honourable Minister of Finance deli­ Then, Sir, in today's Straits Times vered on Wednesday afternoon, and there is a letter written by Mr Justice those who have had enough stamina, I Hepworth himself. Now, I would like suppose, must have listened, through the to read Mr Justice Hepworth's letter, whole speech and those who have not, I am sure, must have gone home and Sir. The letter says: read through the Budget speech for "When listening to the report on the day's themselves, as I have done. proceedings in Parliament given by Mr Ajit Singh after the News at 9.30 p.m. over Radio Mr Speaker, Sir, the presentation of Malaysia this evening (November 18), I the Budget and the speech is always a thought I heard Mr Ajit Singh say, firstly, that Mr Stephen Yong had said that the momentuous event and everyone con­ judge who tried the Rahman Talib case has, cerned is interested in the Budget because of the result of the case, had his speech from various points of view—the application for Federal citizenship deferred, businessman, from the point of view and secondly, when pressed for the source of his (Mr Yong's) information, Mr Yong of business taxes, the salaried man, had said that the information came from the from the point of view of income taxes, judge himself. the property people, the speculators, This is not the case. Assuming that I have on the point of view of profit tax and correctly stated above what was said in the surplus taxes, and the ordinary man, report over the radio, then the facts alleged the poor man, the average wage earner, in that report are wholly inaccurate. I was the judge 'who tried the Rahman Talib case the farmer, the rubber tapper, the and I became a Federal Citizen long before workers at the Railways and the various 3197 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3198 Government departments, are interes­ Finance, sitting in the ivory tower of ted as to whether or not the cost of the Cabinet room, does not do shopping living is going to rise as a result of himself; maybe he is not aware of the proposals in the Budget speech. When various prices of the various commo­ we look at this Budget, one wonders dities which the ordinary housewife immediately what is there in the Bud­ has to buy—the price of sugar, the get for the poor man, what is there in price of milk, the price of beef or pork, this Budget for the ordinary person. the price of rice, and so on—coffee too, and I believe the price of coffee has According to the Honourable Minis­ also gone up: perhaps he is not aware ter of Finance, gross national product of it—and I do not do shopping my­ has increased, per capita income has self. So, the best test of it is to ask the increased, and a rosy picture of our ordinary housewife, and I am sure that economic situation is presented to the everyone, of us here will agree that the House. But how has it benefited the ordinary housewife has a lot to com­ average taxi driver, the average motor­ plain of here today. If the per capita car driver, the employees in the vari­ income has, in fact increased, the cost ous firms? When we begin to ask of living has, in fact, increased. But ourselves this question, one begins to I will deal with that in detail again see that this Budget as a budget aimed afterwards. at wooing the big foreign investors and, in fact, it is a capitalist investment bud­ get, a budget meant and aimed to get Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, the other support from the capitalists, especially thing we want to know is whether foreign capitalists. Here, we are imme­ according to the Honourable Minister of diately taken up by the statement of Finance, the gross national product— the Honourable Minister of Finance in he kept referring to it as G.N.P.—has his Budget speech, when he said "We also increased from 7.6 per cent in have successfully wooed seventeen 1964 to 8.5 per cent for the first eight foreign countries to invest". Well, I do months of 1965—I do not know how he not know whether the word "wooed" has obtained those figures. But, never­ is an appropriate term—I would have theless, assuming those figures are used the word "solicited". But then, correct, which I doubt, we want to of course, that is a matter of opinion. know what has happened to all this (Laughter). money. If someone in this country is earning all that money and has in­ Mr Speaker, Sir, it would appear creased the per capita income, and the that we have to ask ourselves these gross national product, how has the questions. If it is true that our money been distributed? Who has economic situation is much better taken all this money? If the answer today that it was before, is it is that profits have or are still being true? If it is true, how have the people re-exported out of this country, then benefitted? And is it, as he puts it, one it is completely and entirely irrelevant of the results of the Second Five-Year as to whether or not gross national Plan for the States of Malaya? I will product has increased, or whether or deal with these in detail. However, not the country, to put in simpler terms, I think we may say at once that is earning more money, because the the taste of the pudding must lie in the money earned is exported to foreign eating of it. I mean, we must see in shareholders and to foreign firms. If effect whether or not, in this last one that is true, then we must re-assess the year especially, the average person has whole policy of our industrial develop­ gained in spite of the claim that the ment plan and not by our status. We per capita income has increased from do not want to be like tribal chiefs the sum of $816 in 1962 to $932 in who in the olden days used to meet 1965—that is to say, an increase of the European traders and used to accept $116 in three years, or some $38 per beads for necklaces, in order to allow year per person. To know this, one them to dig up minerals from their has to ask the ordinary housewife. country and export them to Europe— Maybe the Hon'ble Minister of if that happens, although we may be 3199 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3200 getting an increased income for the say that one can see the evidence of time being, in the long run we will this everywhere one goes, whether in be losing money. Then, again, most the towns or in the rural areas; and he of our income, if we look at the said that in physical terms all the main Budget speech, comes from our natural sectors of economy have recorded resources, rubber, tin and timber being growth and we have reached new the major ones. Again I will deal with heights of endeavour. this in detail afterwards. If these are Mr Speaker, Sir, in order immediate­ the 3 major resources of our revenue, ly to substantiate his picture, he says we must not forget that tin especially that the gross national product has is a wasting asset. You can dig tin out shown a growth of 8.5%, that the long of the ground, but you can't put tin term prospects of tin is good—he does back into the ground. And if the not say it is wasting but he says it is majority of the owners of our tin mines good, that advances have been made are foreign firms, they are not going to in the export of rubber—he did not allow us to change our policy; they are say that it is only 2.2%, and that we not going to allow us to prevent them can sell every pound of natural rubber from taking out the profits from tin; produced, but we cannot produce and if the majority, I understand about enough of it; and he says that timber 60%, are owned by people from has increased its importance as a abroad, then 60% of the profits go foreign exchange earner, and that he abroad. We only get 40% of what is knows that production is 3.9% higher left of it. than the corresponding period of 1964, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Budget speech but he does not say, as he says later we heard on Wednesday afternoon is, on, that now what we are left with if I may call it, a master piece of are iron mines with a lower percentage lullabys. Little economic maxims join of iron and therefore he has to review together into a patch work of lullabys; the question of tribute to the Govern­ and it is in fact a series of "you pat ment, in order to make our iron ore my back" sentiments—"How good it prices competitive in the world market. is, and see how well I have done it; Mr Speaker, Sir, the emphasis on the we must congratulate the Hon'ble Budget is upon the manufacturing Minister of Finance because his task industry, and I will proceed to show is not an easy task". I do not envy his how that this process itself is not task. He is like the man who sits like sufficient and will certainly be not a father in the house with a lot of sufficient enough to meet with the naughty children coming up to him growing population and the growing pulling his sleeves and says, "Pa, I want demands of our people. He says that to buy a balloon today. Pa, I want to he has obtained the services of a well- buy a lollipop today. Please give me known industrial consultant from the money". He must find the money United States to identify specific invest­ somehow, that grown-up children want ment opportunities in the country, and to use. he says that he hopes that soon we Mr Speaker, Sir, he has presented will be able to do a proper plan. so well a picture of rainbows in the Without going any further into this, I sky without drawing our attention to would like now immediately to say, the ominous clouds that are looming do not forget that when foreign inves­ over the horizon. He says, for example, tors come to invest in our country, it that in many respects 1965 has been is not for the love of the people of a momentous year for Malaysia, that this country. They come here to make the principal targets, that is to say of profits and they come here to make the Second Year Plan, have been ex­ certain that they will take out their pro­ ceeded and, as a result the people of fits. This is nothing unusual. Mr Spea­ this country are enjoying a pro­ ker, Sir, if we were to invest abroad say gressively higher standard of living—I in , or America, it will not be doubt whether the average housewife because of our love for the American will agree to that—and he goes on to or , it will be the 3201 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3202 question of how much money we can Enche' Lim Kean Siew: But, Mr get in return for our investment in Speaker, Sir, I am glad the Hon'ble England and America. So, if the Minister of Finance admits that the business consultant comes, to advise prices have declined: so long as it us on our industries, he is not going declines—I am not sure—whether it to come to see how it will benefit the is 1% or .1%. Very well .1%. Of country, but how it will benefit the course, we have had enough of Govern­ investors first. That is his primary aim. ment throwing impressive list of Therefore, I say that this American figures at us. Surely he must know that investment consultant who comes will the housewife, who has found the price be thinking from the capitalist invest­ of rice, of sugar, of vegetables, steadily ment point of view. He will be more rising will certainly be not impressed interested, perhaps in capital intensive by figures. programmes rather than labour in­ tensive programmes—in other words, Dr Lim Swee Aun: Mr Speaker, to obtain the maximum out of the Sir, sugar prices drop since. It has investment and to cut down labour cost never risen. It has dropped from 45 as much as possible. Such investment, cents to 35 cents. especially American investment, carries Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, with it a "kiss of death" and, therefore, Sir, what was the price of sugar before let us not woo such a suitor so it was 45 cents? strenuously. Dr Lim Swee Aun: The price of Mr Speaker, Sir, before touching on sugar in 1962 went up to 90 cents, and the budget proposals in specific sections, had been steadily dropping since. we must first question ourselves as to whether or not these figures are the Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, proper figures, and if these figures are Sir, I am sure that is due to the words sufficient for us to have a true picture "rising price of world sugar". of what is going on, and to see if Dr Lim Swee Aun: You are right. these figures are sufficient for the Hon'ble Minister himself to tackle this Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Yes, and I problem properly. I have said that we am sure if the price of sugar today in must be able to know how the income the world was higher you could not is distributed, how much the profits manufacture sugar lower today in are re-exported, and whether or not Malaya, because you have to buy raw there is a sufficient distribution of sugar from abroad. wealth amongst the working class. But Dr Lim Swee Aun: Quite right, too. before we can do so, we must assume, that the figures are correct. Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Therefore, Mr Speaker, Sir, if he quotes that the Now, I will deal specifically with price of sugar has gone up, or down, one thing, the question of retail prices. certainly that is due to world prices The Minister states with complacency and not due to his vision. that there has been a drop in the retail price index between 1964 and 1965. Dr Lim Swee Aun: The point is Now, if I am wrong, I would like to this: in his speech he has said that be corrected immediately. He says that the price of sugar has been rising, that in the last one year there has been the housewife has been paying more for this fall of 1%. This is all very well, the price of sugar. I am correcting him on that point of fact—that it has but we have had enough of dropped. Enche' Tan Siew Sin: Mr Speaker, Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to correct the Hon'ble Sir, he has said rice, sugar, coffee, Member's reading. Although I have not etc—let him deny that. I mean, let us got the text, I think I said, "0.1%". He just not pick up one little specific point should read my speech more carefully and try to imagine that that is the before he reveals its figures. whole picture. 3203 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3204

Enche' Tan Siew Sin: The Hon'ble beginning of 1962 to the date-time Member for Dato Kramat suggests that of publication of course in middle of my figures are wrong. These figures January 1965, the graph shows secular are not my figures, they are figures rises of the retail price index from which are scientifically calculated by 1962 to 1965, and the present position, recognised experts, according to re­ is that it is roughly 2.5% beyond that cognised international standards. The of 1962, and, if he looks at the graph, Hon'ble Member suggests these figures every year for a few months there is are wrong—may I know the basis for a fall towards the end of the year, that assumption? I mean, it is no use or towards the beginning of the year, his telling us this, just because he feels and then it rises again, but there is that that statement will help him in no doubt that there is a secular rising his presentation of a particular line price index, and that 1964 especially, of thinking. I suggest that it will be shows a very sharp rise towards the far more useful if he can prove to me end of the year. The graph, Mr Speaker, that those figures are wrong, and not Sir, may be wrong, it may not give just ask the House to accept his state­ the whole picture of the economy of ment of belief. this country, but then the question that I am asking is this: Has a proper Enche' Lim Kean Siew: May I now picture of the economic situation been proceed, Mr Speaker, Sir, with my presented in the Budget speech? (Long speech? pause). Mr Speaker, Sir, it is the test ulti­ Mr Speaker, Sir, I will now come mately—as I said, the taste of the to deal with the question of rubber. pudding is in its eating—on how the housewife finds whether the prices Enche' Tan Siew Sin: The Hon'ble have gone up. Now, of course, we will Member has taken the liberty of be very interested in any case to know passing it on to me. May I try to the sources of his retail price index. explain the implications of this graph Frankly speaking, he should let us to him? It is true, Sir, that this graph know how he has based his retail price shows that between 1962 and 1964, index, because anybody can do any­ there was a slight rise of 4%—between thing with figures; it depends on how 1962 and the end of 1963, there was many per cent of each commodity you a slight rise of 4% from just under are going to buy in order to calculate 100 to 104; towards the end of 1963 the retail price index, and if you choose it dipped again, but the point, Sir, is wrong goods for an index you certainly this, that within a period of ten years, will get a different answer. And the the last decade, the cost of living Honourable Minister has asked me to indices in the States of Malaya, in prove my figures. Well, like him, I particular, have fluctuated between 100 am not an economist, but I have in and 105, and this, for a period of ten front of me a publication called the years, I think, is proof of the remark­ Quarterly Economic Review published able stability of the cost of living in in August 1965 by the Economist this country. It is not possible clearly Intelligence Unit. The Economist for any country in the world to achieve Intelligence Unit is an international a level of 100 for ten years, but the division, and it publishes these figures very fact that the fluctuations have quarterly from London, and if I am not been so slight, within a margin of two wrong, it is an internationally respected or three per cent over a decade, has paper used by foreign or international proved the very point I have been investors. This August 1965 issue trying to make. And I think I should reviews the economy of Malaysia, advise the Honourable Member in Singapore and . At the inside future not to delve in subjects upon cover it has a graph, which I think which he is not particularly conversant. is the easiest to understand, and retail price index is given in this graph, and Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, if the Honourable Minister would like Sir, I do not want to go into the to look at it, he may do so, from the question of qualification, but if it is a 3205 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3206 question of academic qualification, I per cent; and as for labour, the manu­ do not think that the Honourable facturing sector, he says, accounts for 12 Minister is, in fact, the last person to per cent of 7 per cent. Now, 12 per cent challenge me. I may not have a degree of 7 per cent comes to less than 1 per in Economics, but it did not mean I cent. So, less than 1 per cent of our did not study. labour is absorbed by these pioneer firms, which accounts for less than 2 The other thing is this: I am glad per cent of our national activity. There­ the Honourable Minister of Finance fore, the main factor that we have to has admitted now that there has been consider is, what is happening to our a steady secular rise since 1962 with natural products, like our rubber and seasonal fluctuations; and that is why, tin? Is it true that it can be said that I have said, when you say there is a the national income increase is as a slight decline in the general level of result of planning in these sectors? So, retail prices in 1965 it is not giving a let us then examine the figures of completely true picture, because the rubber in detail. general trend has been the upward trend, not a double check. (Interruption) Mr With regard to rubber, the Honour­ Speaker, Sir, I thought the graph has able Minister of Finance said that the made out very correctly that since 1962 Malaysian total production during 1965 there has been a steady, secular rise is expected to reach a figure of 913,000 in the retail price index, and I do tons, an increase of 3.3 per cent not think we can deny it. It is certainly compared with 1964; and the gross above the 100 per cent level since 1962. volume of rubber exports from the Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would be very States of Malaya during the first 9 thankful if I am not interrupted again. months of this year amounted to I do not mind being interrupted to 645,500 tons, an increase of 2.3 per explain, Mr Speaker, Sir, certain points cent over the corresponding period of of view, but if it is going to come into 1964; and that the total rubber exports a question of argument, he can of from Malaysia are expected to reach course answer me and produce other 942,000 tons during 1965, an increase of figures, if he wants to, later on. If I 2.2 per cent only. So, in fact, the volume may, I will continue with my speech. of exports from rubber is estimated to be 2.2 per cent. That is not sufficient Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honour­ in itself to say that the rise in the able Minister of Finance has given volume of exports has accounted for figures to show that there has been an the rise of national income. In fact, the increase in the gross national product reason why there has been an, increase for the last year, and gross capital in national income of Malaya is due formation has been rising steadily. to fortuitous reasons—Godsent—in the Unfortunately, we will find from his sudden rise over expected prices, due Budget speech that the major portion entirely to world situations outside of of income comes in fact from the planning from the Government. In fact, primary produce of this country, that if we want to say anything about the unfortunately, as he puts it, the manu­ Government, we can only say this: that facturing sector is still small, and that, the reason he says for the drop in the in fact, the manufacturing sector percentage of consumption of natural accounts only for 9 per cent of the gross rubber is due to the fact that we have domestic products of the States of not produced enough of rubber—we Malaya and 7 per cent of the total should have foreseen that, and of employment to be found in our country. course more rubber shall be produced; Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, thus the pioneer but the rise of income is not due to firms represent only some 20 per cent planning at all. Rise of income has of the manufacturing sector in terms been due to the rise in world prices of value added but only 12 per cent and this is the major thing we have in terms of employment. Therefore, we to consider. can say that the pioneer status accounts for less than 2 per cent of the total Now, as for tin industry, Mr Speaker, national product, i.e., 9 per cent of 20 again the total output for tin in 1965 3207 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3208 will amount to a little more than 3 have next to ask ourselves this per cent of the 1964 figures to reach question: whether or not such a deve­ a level of 62,000 tons, but—again, I lopment is beneficial. I have already quote him—the average price for 1965 indicated just now that it is not bene­ will be $700 per picul which would ficial, unless we have a properly exceed the 1964 average by some 13 planned economy and unless we can per cent. We all know that, and again properly control the flight of capital. our income has risen partly due to the Mr Speaker, Sir, in dealing with this, sudden increase in world prices of tin. we also have to deal with the position Now, this cannot be said to be from of Singapore, because Singapore is now the planning of the Government, and a foreign country, and we must now the rise of 13% was again, in fact, a find out how much of the money we gift which is fortuitous to our national earn from the industrial sector is expor­ coffers. ted. Generally speaking, I think we can Mr Speaker, Sir, what I have to say say, firstly, that over 60 per cent of about the other sectors of our national our tin and rubber is in foreign hands, produce in timber, rice and so on, either owned by the firms registered would be the same as what I have said locally or otherwise. Therefore, we can with regard to rubber and tin. Rising expect that about half of the profits prices of rice, rising prices of timber would flow out of Malaya. Secondly, and greater timbering licences given in joint industrial firms, it may be have been partly responsible for the stated that the majority of the total rise of our national income. I wish to profits would flow out of our country, emphasise that this, however, is not although certain net profits obtained due, as the Honourable Minister of in Malaya might be kept here. Finance will have it, completely, or Let us take the case of the sugar fully, to the successful conclusion of refinery. Sugar has to be imported by the Second Five-Year Plan for the the Japanese firm, or under contract States of Malaya. If anything, the Plan with the Japanese firm, using Japanese has only a small part to play with it. ships from abroad. The machinery is First of all, the Second Five-Year Plan Japanese, and the plant itself is only a is a five-year plan: rubber trees planted refinery plant. The profits of the refin­ within these five years cannot be ing of sugar itself, I understand, is expected to give rubber until next year something around 60 per cent to local and the following years. The same firm and 40 per cent to foreign firm. thing applies to oil palm; oil palm This would be exactly the same position takes 41/2year s to grow; and as for tin, as in the case of certain cement fac­ we must expect that its output will tories—for example, the Tasek Cement slowly fall, unless we find new tin- Factory. I understand the majority of bearing areas. the Tasek Cement shares are held by a Sitting suspended at 11.05 a.m. certain combine in Singapore. So, even in the manufacturing sector in joint Sitting resumed at 11.33 a.m. enterprises, a large amount of the profits could be exported abroad, and (Mr Speaker in the Chair) there is nothing to prevent people, who make money here, from sending out Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, the money. Sir, much play has been made on the need to develop the industrial sector, The next point is, is the development and I have already stated that, in fact, of industries itself healthy to our it plays such a small part in our economy under the present plan, or national income that we begin to should we not have manufacturing wonder that itself it is sufficient. How­ plants which could take advantage of ever, assuming that the Honourable our raw products. For example, Mr Minister of Finance is correct—that Speaker Sir, there will be a lot of there must be a manufacturing sector, difference between a factory producing an industrial sector, which must be rubber tyres making use of our rubber developed as quickly as possible—we and an assembly plant for cars. 3209 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3210

Recently, when laying the foundation mostly, are therefore subjected to very stone of the Mercedes car factory little pressure to build up effective local assembly plant in Petaling Jaya, I management or control." Then he goes think, the Hon'ble Minister of Com­ on to say "The trade of the Federation merce and Industry spoke of the great at present is almost entirely in the leap forward we would achieve in hands of the Chinese nearly all of whom manufacture of cars. Now, in the first have close families or clan relations place, such plants are not manufactur­ with the Singapore merchant. Until a ing plants. They do not manufacture unified and effective economic sove­ anything, they are assembly plants, reignty over both territories can be and most of the things to be assem­ exercised virtually any control which bled, say, in the Mercedes factory is really worth evading will be evaded." come from Germany, except perhaps And the Hon'ble Minister of Finance, only the tyres and the batteries—and in page 26 of this Budget Speech says as for the tyres, I understand, they "that there must be economic arrange­ would be produced in Dunlops and as ment with Singapore and rapproche­ for the batteries, I do not know where. ment is essential to economic union So, in fact we give a certain amount of with Singapore, and that unless we can employment to our local people, but have integration, it is very difficult to apart from that, profits obtained from have a healthy economy." Mr Speaker, the assembly plant could partly be Sir, nothing is truer than that. We all exported out of our country. So, Mr agree that the reunification of Singa­ Speaker, Sir, the investors abroad pore with Malaya is essential, especially would concentrate certainly on capital for our trade and industry. Otherwise intensive plants, not labour intensive there will be a big out-flow of capital plants. from Malaya into Singapore. Unless there is reunification of Singapore The control of our economy by and Malaya, what will happen between foreign hands is so powerful that Pro­ Malaya and Singapore will be what fessor Silcock—for the benefit of the happened between Canton and Hong Minister of Finance, he was my Pro­ Kong before the war. Before the war, fessor at one time, and was Professor Canton was the agriculture sector of Economics in the University of supplying food and raw produce to Malaya—in his publications "The Hong Kong which became its metro­ Political Economy of Independent polis and was responsible for its entre­ Malaya" has this to say with regard pot trade, an international trade. The to Malaya: "Its heavy dependence on position in Malaya is fast becoming exports would make it hard to check that which we have found in Hong capital flight by exchange control Kong and Canton. We will become measure. This makes it feel insecure. primary producers of rubber, tin and It has been persuaded that the main­ timber, and 80% of our trade will be tenance and increase of its assets running towards Singapore and, there­ depends far more on the willingness of fore, Singapore will control our eco­ foreign capitalists to invest in Malaya nomy to such an extent that we will not than on almost any other aspects of be able to move freely—and this remark economic policy. It would like to create about Singapore applies equally with a flock of small East Asian nations the investors from foreign countries. interested in attracting foreign capital They come here, as I have said, to for economic development, but unwill­ make money and to take away their ing to have their sovereignty abreached money. Five years free of income tax to fight communism internally and has given a certain firm 120% profit in rely on external defence on the unwill­ five years; and that firm at the moment ingness of the West to let them fall is running its factory here in Petaling into communist hands." Then he goes Jaya on profits obtained through to say, "The agency houses which pioneer status, and all it does is to control rubber and tin, which control package its product here which is sent so much of Malaya's rubber, tin and to Malaya in loose forms. Very similar trade, and Agency Houses are foreign too, are the cigarette factories of Malaya 3211 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3212

which get raw tobacco—they cut it up approximately about 50% of both sexes here—get the paper and get gum unemployed for six months and more from overseas and roll cigarettes than 30% unemployed for more than for us under different brands some­ one year. When it was published that times to flatter our ego, like the in certain parts of Russia or Siberia, "PARLIMEN" cigarettes we are getting there was supposed to have been today for certain Members of Parlia­ 20% of unemployment, hence the ment. horror, when the American un­ employment figures went beyond 5%, Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to this hence the horror, here is clear industrial sector, I would end up by admission that the situation has not saying that it is the pioneer status that changed from last year to this year. It has given monopolies. We have a is exactly the same and pilot schemes monopolistic situation. You have a show 50% unemployment for six sugar factory, nobody else can produce months, and 30% unemployed for sugar unless its production is safe­ more than one year. Pilot scheme in guarded or the sugar factory is safe­ 1957, taken on Penang Island, shows guarded. The same thing happens with 60% unemployed between 20 and 30— tyres, batteries, and so on. Whilst I am or under employed, and 40% un­ not questioning the question of pioneer employed between the ages of 16 and status, I want to ask the Government 20. The figures, in other words, from one question. Would it not be better 1957 until 1965 is roughly the same. for the Government to share with the There has been no improvement, and foreign firms in these pioneer it is stated that we must deal with it industries? By sharing, the profits that quickly, but unfortunately, we need go to this factory would go to the $18,000 gross fixed investment, in Government, and the Government can order to provide per job, and therefore distribute this wealth, and Government we need some $1,200 million this year can also make certain the time period and $1,200 million over in subsequent given for foreign investors. If the years to deal with the growing numbers Government can guarantee, for of children coming out of schools. example, that the foreign investor will Now, this is true if the Hon'ble get his capital plus so many per cent Minister of Finance looks at labour profits in so many years, it could be employment through the eyes of quite possible to set up new factories industrial capitalists: but this is not and take over the factories in a few true in labour intensive development years' time, without hurting the foreign in the rural areas, and we have not investors and without allowing small got this much money to give this group of capitalists to profit. Now, the amount of jobs to find so many jobs gross national product of our country for the unemployed that is coming out has increased, but has it gone into the of schools. He gives the figure of pockets of the average person, or has 100,000. Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, it gone into the pockets of a few, say, Sir, I disagree with that figure. We about 20 or 30 people living in Kuala have managed to get the figure of Lumpur and its surrounds, working 100,000 this year coming out of schools, with foreign firm by holding shares in but extending the compulsory education companies floated for this purposes of of school children for a further three exploitation? The money is not going years—in other words, children who into the pockets of the people. It is should have left school this year and going into the pockets of a few last year have been allowed to continue persons—and a lot of it is being taken for another three years in schools, so out again. Do we want this to continue? that they do not need to come out Mr Speaker, Sir, one of the most this year to find employment—is only important things of development is to postponing the evil day. provide employment. According to the Hon'ble Minister of Finance, he says Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to deal that at the moment, without going into now with the special problems of the details of the Budget, there are Penang Island. The problem of Penang 3213 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3214 Island is yet another example of lack so strongly about the State Govern­ of central planning to deal with ment of Penang, they should not have specific questions. Measures taken by gone there to help the Alliance candi­ the Government in 9th October this date to swell the ranks of the lotus year with regards to goods manu­ eaters in our State Government. For factured in the Common Customs the last two years, the State Govern­ Areas, we are told, do not apply to ment has been asleep. Until today no goods manufactured in Penang, and this specific plans have been provided. is because they don't see why the people This statement of the Hon'ble Minister of Penang should have the benefit of of Finance is one of the severest a free port and also the advantage of indictments that I have come across this Common Customs Area controls. on the ability of the State Government According to the words of the Hon'ble of Penang to manage the affairs of Minister of Finance, Penang Island Penang. In view of this indictment, presents, in his own words, both a the Government of the State of Penang problem and challenge as to what might see fit to resign. should be the eventual role of the projected Malaysian Customs Area, Singapore withdrew from Malaysia and he has stated that he has gone to on the 9th August, 1965; September, obtain impartial and expert advice on October, November—in three months this question and he has, therefore, it had already laid alternative proposals asked the World Bank to send a team as to what should be done with the of experts to study the economic pro­ economy of Singapore. They have laid blems of Penang and to formulate for new plans and they have executed the consideration of the Central and plans. For the last two years, what has State Governments a long term the State Government of Penang done? economic plan for Penang, which would The State Government of Penang has fit the national pattern. And he says stated time and time again that they that he himself personally in his recent are going to investigate into this visit to Washington approached the problem and they should come to a World Bank to have this survey done decision, and until today they have in the not too distant future. He come to no decision whatsoever. further says that it is clear that the vState Government and the people of Mr Speaker, Sir, even on the question Penang have to make up their minds of a tunnel, or bridge, or causeway, soon on what they want and this the proposals have been flung to the decision should not be a difficult one newspapers to be printed, as if words to make and that Penang unemploy­ mean nothing at all. There is a lot of ment is becoming increasingly serious. difference between a tunnel, a bridge and a causeway. When the team of Mr Speaker, Sir, Annexure J to experts, American Trade Delegation, create a Common Customs Market in fact, came to Penang, it was said came into effect on 16th September, that they had come to study the 1963—over two years ago, and the feasibility of erecting a causeway over Hon'ble Minister of Finance says that the channel of Penang by the State he himself personally has got to go to Government. These people were the World Bank two years after the nothing more than salesmen of heavy formation of the Common Market to industrial goods. What do they know get a team of experts to come out to about the causeway? And the problems Penang to find out what should be of the causeway and rightly when they done to Penang—and he says the said "Goodbye" to Penang, they said Penang Government must and the that they had not come to decide on the people of Penang must make up their feasibility or otherwise—but they have minds soon as to what should be done. said that if we want to build a cause­ Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of this way, they will supply us the machinery. statement, I am surprised that Ministers And yet they were treated as if they should have gone to take part in the were experts, and if that is what is by-election at Ayer Itam. If they feel meant by experts, then please ask those 3215 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3216

experts to stay at home in America, married, you better have children first, don't come here. (Laughter) otherwise we won't consider your marriage. (Laughter). Mr Speaker, Sir, again, I notice nothing in this Budget about the Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would pro­ proposed project of the University of pose this in this House very seriously Penang. The State Government has to be considered by the Minister of been talking of a university project for Finance in view of the desperate posi­ Penang. It once zoned one area at tion of Penang. Firstly, Penang should Bukit Glugor and, then, suddenly lifted be declared a special area, not as a that project in that area, which had foreign territory. As a special area, the changed hands in the meantime, and products from Penang shall not be zoned another area for a proposed considered as imports from any foreign University. No provisions were made territory, even though it is not in the in the Budget. Obviously the Central common market. Secondly, Singapore Government does not consider the should not be taken as an example for proposal of the State Government Penang. Singapore has no area in the to be anything more than a political Customs Area. Penang has a Customs gimmick to win elections with. It is Area, that is Province Wellesley—that true Penang is suffering. It is true that is already in the Customs Area—and Penang is in a special situation. We the Island itself. Thirdly, the entrepot must deal with Penang as a special trade of Singapore cannot be used as situation. It is no use to tell people of a comparison when it comes to Penang. Penang, "You have a free port. Singapore's entrepot trade is very big; Now, if you want us to help it can survive with a bonded area. But you get yourself out of the free port Penang with a bonded area cannot status". It is just like telling a man, survive, because they cannot roll their "Look, I do not like your colour. You capital. Trade is not big enough, and better change your colour before I any purchase of goods to be put into will help you." He was born that the bonded area would mean tying colour—how can you ask him to change up of capital and a loss of interest, it? Penang grew as a free port; and which the people of Penang cannot it was very surprising that the Honour­ afford. Again, manufacturer must be able the Prime Minister has made encouraged in Penang on the following statements in public. I do not know proposals. whether it is because he was highly emotional or not again, but he said it Firstly, goods manufactured in quite categorically, "Now that Singa­ Penang, sent to the Mainland, shall not pore is out, we will develop Penang be taxed as finished products but shall as an entrepot port. We will assure be taxed upon their raw materials. In Penang people of its free port status". other words, the tax on shirts should Then, the Honourable the Minister of be the tax on the cloth that is used to Finance dialled to Penang and said: manufacture the shirts. This would put "Oh, you know, I am sorry, but you Penang manufacturers in the same posi­ better make up your minds and tion, on par, with the people of the until you make up your minds we do Mainland, except that, perhaps, maybe not know what to do with you." Then labour costs might be a bit cheaper he goes again to Penang and the because it is a free port. But this is a people discussed with him the pro­ little concession which we can give to blems of the industrialisation of Penang the people of Penang Island, if we want Island; and he said—no doubt it to survive and be a viable part of rhetorically; I am sure he was not Malaysia. serious; he couldn't be serious, because All goods manufactured in Penang it was such a foolish remark—"If you which had to be exported to foreign want a bridge, you better have a countries, such as East African coun­ hundred factories first and we will give tries, Ceylon, and so on, shall, if any you a bridge." Have you ever heard of duty is paid on the raw material, have such a statement? If you want to get an immediate "kick back" of such duty. 3217 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3218

In other words, the duties to be repaid starts as soon as the Customs gates to the manufacturer, when the manu­ are opened at 8.30 in the morning—and facture is for export. I understand, a from 8.30 to 11 the roads are conges­ Japanese firm wanted to make nylon ted. Only in this way can we assist fishing nets, but because of these Penang. And also by allowing Penang difficulties of selling to the Mainland to maintain a free port, goods which and exporting, they have changed their Penang intend to send to the Mainland minds. But should we have this "kick must be treated as special cases. What back" immediately for the Penang is happening is that goods sent from people with a definite assurance, plus a Penang, and taxed according to Penang taxation only on raw materials for prices, as soon as they reach the goods to be exported into the Federa­ shops of Penang, people buying in tion, I am sure we can encourage the Penang have to pay duty according to development of Penang immediately as Penang shop prices. This has made it an industrial area. We don't even difficult for Penang to buy goods from have to bother about a bridge or a abroad to supply North Malaya and causeway. Forget about the bridge and many North Malayan merchants have the causeway for the time being—that come to Kuala Lumpur to buy those is a long-term project. Frankly, a goods, because they are imported in causeway cannot be built because of bulk and the Customs declaration is the strong tides in the channel, and lower. So we must consider that where also because it will cut the port into goods are to be re-exported, they two—the south channel and the north should be given special treatment. channel; and ships coming from the south to enter the port may have to Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, we also come down by the north, which is suggest that if we want to develop something very incovenient. A tunnel, Penang, it must also be developed as I understand, would be too deep and a cultural and an educational centre. there are a lot of cables. But this is a Unless this is done, Penang itself matter of long-term project, as I have cannot survive as a free port. Penang said. is recognised to be the most beautiful part of Malaysia. It has been called by What is the purpose of a tunnel, one of the travel agencies as the what is the purpose of a causeway, "Pearl of the Orient". But how are we what is the purpose of a bridge? To making use of it? The beaches are get goods across quickly, and to facili­ littered, and there are no agricultural tate transport service. Very well, forget facilities. The last time when the it. Let us consider the ferry services. Honourable Deputy Prime Minister What is the ferry doing between 12.30 went to Penang he said: "I will at night and 6.30 in the morning? spend $200,000 on a mosque up Nothing. The ferry is absolutely free. Penang Hill." Why spend $200,000 on The Customs close their gates or their a mosque up Penang Hill, when the offices at about five in the afternoon. $200,000 can better be spent towards a People wanting to send their goods to university project? And as regards this the Mainland have to wait till the next university project, why do we have to morning before they can do so. Now, have new buildings? We can have a we can facilitate this early. Goods can different type of university educational be sent between twelve at midnight to system in Penang. It need not be a resi­ six o'clock in the morning at special dential college. We can take over all reduced rates if they are manufactured houses which are now tumbling, falling goods. Customs shall be opened to into ruins, converting them into lecture deal with such kind of trade to and halls. Lectures can be also made public. fro Penang Island. This would mean We can make use of the Rediffusion that transport can run along the Main­ and the Radio services to give lectures land of Malaya in the middle of the in public. Students coming to the night, when it is free of traffic, and University of Penang need not live in therefore use our roads at night and residential colleges. They can live as relieve congestion from Penang, which lodgers with the people of Penang, and 3219 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3220 in that way you can augment the in­ measures were introduced. The crowds come of the people living in Penang. were agitated and the boys started to Now, Mr Speaker, Sir, I have to scatter in many positions. It is note­ touch very briefly on the February 13th worthy to remember that the incident demonstrations. I want to touch on it first started with the police firing tear because many people, owing to the gas at the Party headquarters. After declaration of a curfew, felt that there that crowds began to move, and all the must have been something very wrong arrests carried out for demonstration in Kuala Lumpur. I wish to state that was after the incident at Kuala Lumpur no one was arrested or charged with headquarters. That is all I wish to say violence; no one was convicted with about this. unlawfully demonstrating. Most of the Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the people who were arrested were released; question of the Ministry of Local a few who were convicted pleaded Government, I am very glad and, I guilty to not having an assembly Police must express our great appreciation licence. The seven people who were and gratitude for the Cabinet to set up charged with being in possession of a special committee to supervise the dangerous weapons belonged to the negotiations with K. C. Boon and M.C.A. Youths; charges against them Cheah on this particular pre-fabrica- were later withdrawn, because those ted housing, and I am offensive weapons were found to be The Assistant Minister of Finance building tools. (Dr Ng Kam Poh): On a point of clari­ On the night of February 12, we had fication, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Cabinet a special meeting which finished at I think, has not set up a special 11.20 and we informed Radio Malaysia committee. The Committee was already and everybody concerned, the authori­ in existence before to negotiate con­ ties concerned, that we had cancelled cerning Cabinet matters. I think the our demonstration, which was only to Honourable Minister for Housing will have been a meeting at Chin Woo be able to clarify. Stadium led by a march to Sulaiman The Minister for Local Government Court for a public rally. That was all. and Housing (Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh): Nothing else. Just a march from Chin Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarifica­ Woo Stadium to Sulaiman Court. But tion. I think it is unfortunate that the we cancelled that, because Police wrong impression has been created by licence was withdrawn. Instead we the headlines in the front page of the decided to hold meetings in five or six Straits Times this morning in respect of Branches in Kuala Lumpur, after which which, I understand, the Honourable the leaders were to come to Headquar­ Deputy Prime Minister is making cor­ ters for further instructions as to how rections. What the Honourable Deputy to disperse. The meeting was finished Prime Minister said yesterday was at 11.20. The person responsible to merely to emphasise that negotiations inform the Branches was Tan Kai Hee. are still pending and that when the He was arrested at 2.30 that night, after terms and conditions are finalised, these having been followed by Police from will be submitted by this negotiating the Police Headquarters, and no proper committee, consisting of officials, to the order could be given. That morning, Cabinet Committee chaired by the Party members assembled outside Honourable Minister of Finance. This Headquarters to find out what to do. Cabinet Committee was set up as far The Police imposed a riot precaution, back as June, 1965, for this very sim­ blocked certain parts of the town and ple reason: although the Federal Com­ prevented access of ingress into missioner had the right under the Muni­ some party branches. So, with so many cipal Ordinance, to award contracts thousands people in Kuala Lumpur, without tender, nevertheless because of what did you expect them to do? Go the magnitude of the undertaking and up by balloon? Disappear into thin air? the introduction of a pilot project of this Of course, not. They came to the head­ type of industrial housing, I, as Minis­ quarters to find out what to do. Riot ter of Local Government and Housing, 3221 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3222 being responsible for the Federal Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, Capital, intervened and directed that a Sir, "guttersnipe" in plural is also paper be submitted to the Cabinet for "guttersnipe", not "guttersnipes". the Cabinet's directions, and as a (Laughter). result of this paper, the Cabinet appointed a Cabinet Committee con­ Fortunately, he has clarified the sisting of 3 Ministers position again, because I gathered from his statement that people thought that Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, he was accusing us of tactics which, in Sir, since he is on a point of clarifi­ fact, would make guttersnipe of us all— cation—this is not a point of order— in any case, it is rather unparliamentary I have given way for him to clarify language, and I do not think he would and not to make a speech, because we like me to refer this House as an have no time. assembly of civil rats, for example— and I am sure he takes great objection Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: All I want to it. This matter arose out of a ques­ to say is that the public should not tion from my Honourable friend for be further misled that this Committee Batu and further supplementary ques­ has been appointed by Tun Razak as tions arose from his clarification which a result of the debate—it is nothing of took half an hour, unfortunately. If that kind. It was appointed as far back he does not want us to question too as June, 1965. much, in future, perhaps he would Enche' Lim Kean Siew: Mr Speaker, restrict his language and make it Sir, I am glad for the clarification and shorter. (Laughter). I am sure we are all glad for the clari­ Mr Speaker, Sir, the Budget, in fication. We are certainly very glad that short, is designed to encourage foreign at least the Committee is going to look investments. It has no plan whatsoever into this matter and, finally, give its for rural development and develop­ approval. That is what it meant, I ment of labour intensive schemes, which think, 1 don't think I have misunder­ form the major part of our national stood him. Nevertheless, I am very income. It talks of our gross national glad that the Cabinet has seen fit to product and we do not know how the issue such a statement. I don't know figures are obtained and an increase in how many times the Committee has per capita income. But, in fact, Mr met on other matters, but at least we Speaker, Sir, the Budget proposals with­ know now that in this matter final draw Capital Gains Tax and reduces approval has to be obtained from the Turnover Tax. Turnover Tax, I wish to special Committee. state quite clearly, was wrong; it should Mr Speaker, Sir, on this matter I never have been introduced. We are a hope that the Honourable Minister for commercial country; you have turn­ Local Government will not use such over tax, you slow down business; words as "guttersnipe" in future. Singapore profits, that is all. Capital Gains Tax has been abolished I believe, Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: On a point for the simple reason that if you have of clarification, Mr Speaker, Sir; I never Capital Gains Tax, people might invest referred to the Honourable Members in Singapore. Or is it because that as guttersnipes. All I mean to say is Government does not want to hurt its that if Members should resort to friends. But peculiarly Payroll Tax character assassination, which I hope remains. Why? Payroll Tax will dep­ the Members would not, this House, ress the income of the workers. The especially the Opposition bench, employers, who wish to pay income would be reduced to a haunt of gutter­ tax, or to pay payroll tax, will come snipes in this Honourable House. I to an arrangement with the workers that never said that Honourable Members they should get less pay so that he can are guttersnipes. But, if they, of course, take that extra pay to pay for the pay­ resort to those tactics, they will roll tax or can reduce labour. Again, reduce this House to that state. But if introduction of fees for telephone calls the cap fits, wear it. of over 100 a month, it is going to hit 3223 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3224 indiscriminately the average person, Parliament and the maintenance of not the big business. The same thing parliamentary democracy. with car tax. How many big people Mr Speaker, Sir, we are in this have big cars? Less than one per cent. House to say what we think is right, of the country. The 1,200 c.c, the 1,500 to substantiate it by facts, if there are c.c. car, 1,900 c.c. car, is the car that in fact facts to substantiate it. We are belongs to the average income group. here to guard ourselves against saying These are the people you are hitting. things without a basis or without a So, you are hitting the poor people foundation, and I think the matter of with telephones, you are hitting the the discussions which take place in average income group people by in­ this House are important, because our crease of car taxes, letting off the capi­ Estimates and our Budget, which we talists with the removal of Capital are now discussing, provide estimates Gains Tax. This Budget is, as I said, a for the maintenance of this Parliament Budget to woo foreign investment with­ for the people of Malaysia. Mr Spea­ out proper control and, in fact, it is ker, Sir, there was really no dispute, not a Budget to assist the average and I put this as an example so that, person. when the estimates are passed, we will Thank you. know that our money for the main­ tenance of Parliament is being usefully Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam (Ipoh): used: I put this as an example, the Mr Speaker, Sir, the debate on the argument, the apparent argument, on Budget proposals throws open a wide the question of prefabrication and now range of subjects to this House for famous, or always famous, Boon and debate, and it is only proper that as Cheah or Cheah and Boon. There was much of the economic policies and the really no conflict of opinion on the political theories of the Party in power facts. All that the Opposition said, as should be discussed in this debate, and far as I can go and if I am wrong I discussed as fully as possible. will be corrected by my friends here and by, I hope, my friends opposite, May I start off on the note left by was that a representative of Cheah my friend the Hon'ble Member for and Boon was in the same cities as Dato Kramat on the question of the official representatives from the Govern­ Ministry of Housing, in particular pre- fabrication. It was unfortunate that the ment. But the Hon'ble Minister .... Parliament in Malaysia, which is sup­ Enche' Khaw Kai-Boh: On a point posed to be a democratic Parliament, of clarification, have we got to go over heard words such as "guttersnipe" in all that again, because I have replied this House. The Honourable Minister lengthily? If the Hon'ble Member was of Housing explained that what he not here to listen to what I said, this meant was that if the Opposition House should not be inflicted with all resorted to character assassination, then this all over again. they would sink themselves to the level of guttersnipe. Mr Speaker, Sir, if that Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: I think is all that the Honourable Minister I have the liberty to do so. If it is an said, there could be no objection. But infliction, there is always the coffee there was a specific charge, and a lounge (Laughter). All that we said was specific allegation, that the Opposition that the representative of Cheah and did, in fact, resort to character assassi­ Boon was in the same cities at the same nation, which, therefore, brings it into time as official representatives of the this: that the Hon'ble Minister did Government. The Hon'ble Minister say that the Opposition were gutter­ replied—and I heard that over Radio snipe. I wonder how the Hon'ble Singapore and Radio Malaysia at the Minister will feel if I say he is a gutter same time—and he said, "What is rat. I am sure nobody in this House, wrong if they were there at the same nor outside this Parliament, likes time?" Therefore, it is admitted as a language of that sort, and that brings fact that they were there at the same me to the question of the estimates for time. And the Hon'ble Minister went 3225 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3226 further and said that not only they, but liberties, the fundamental rights en­ other contractors were there at the shrined in the Constitution of our same time, Mr Speaker, Sir, therefore, country, are being steadily, and not so on the facts there was no dispute and slowly now, completely scrapped and there was no need for tempers to be the Malaysian subject is being stripped lost. The only dispute was this. At of the rights conferred on him by the least, I from the Opposition—and here Constitution of this land for which he I do not think I am speaking for all—at gave his support to politicians to form least I from the Opposition put a Malaysia. certain construction on that in my own mind. The other side put another con­ Mr Speaker, Sir, I have made this struction on those facts. But they are statement saying that the separation of facts, which can be constructed in Singapore from Malaysia has not eased different ways. I concede, it may be political tension. Before Singapore that your side of the construction may came into Malaysia, there was poli­ be correct; my side of the construction tical tension—political tension on con­ may be incorrect—or it may be the other stitutional issues. Those political ten­ way round. Therefore, Mr Speaker, sions came into sharper focus after Sir, I suggest that where Members of Singapore joined Malaysia. Mr Spea­ the Opposition say things based on ker, Sir, since the Honourable Minister facts, and on facts admitted by the of Finance has thought fit to say that other side, then I think it is not gutter- with the exclusion of Singapore poli­ sniping, if there is such a word, but tical tension has been eliminated in they are facts on which I say the this country, let me tell him a few Government, if it has the stature of facts, which will show not only to him, our friendly neighbour Singapore, would I hope, but to all those who are of order a parliamentary enquiry or a similar mind, that there is no easing of commission of enquiry to be set up political tension in Malaysia. Mr immediately in this matter, and I ask Speaker, Sir, Singapore has been for that commission of enquiry, because declared and is, in fact, a friendly nation there are things which we as Honour­ and it is my theory that so long as able parliamentarians would not like Singapore is declared and is in fact to say under cover of privilege, but a friendly nation, the Malaysian people which we would possibly be able to can draw inspiration from Singapore say in a parliamentary enquiry. Mr and the leaders of Singapore, and I Speaker, Sir, that leaves me completed will continue to draw inspiration from on the question of housing for the Singapore and the leaders of Singapore. moment. Dr Ng Kam Poh: Definitely! I now refer to the speech by the Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Go Hon'ble Minister of Finance, para­ back, is it? graph 2: "In many respects 1965 has been a Dr Ng Kam Poh: Definitely. momentous year for Malaysia. The painful decision taken on 9th August last to separate Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: Defini­ Singapore from Malaysia has achieved the tely, yes- But it is unfortunate that desired result, namely, the elimination of political tension, though the separation although it is definite, my loyalty is to itself could have far-reaching economic Malaysia and I intend to remain in consequences." Malaysia. But of course, Singapore Mr Speaker, Sir, is it suggested that, boys—if I may use that word with after Singapore separated from Malay­ respect to them—are different. It is no sia, there is no political tension, or use Malaysians going over to Singa­ there is a considerable easing of poli­ pore, because you cannot become tical tension in Malaysia? Anybody Ministers there and you cannot become who thinks so is living in a fool's para­ Ambassadors, because they are not so dise. What is happening in Malaysia easily taken up; and you see, they are today is this: that by a series of laws, incorruptible. Therefore, any Malay­ Emergency laws and otherwise, personal sian who thinks he can get a favour 3227 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3228

by walking over to Singapore better the Malaysian people know that with think twice. The other way round seems Singapore inside they were in a stronger to be quite simple. position to demand their rights and privileges in this land. The disappear­ Singapore came into the Federation ance of Singapore from Malaysia has with leaders, who were dedicated to the renewed redoubled, the determination Malaysian cause. They tried for two of the Malayan people to establish in years to convince by speech, by reason, this country a "Malaysian Malaysia". and by logic that only a Malaysian The result of that determination was outlook with a Malaysian programme Ayer Itam. I hope, and I think that could sustain and preserve the Malay­ hope should come true, another out­ sia that was there. It, of course, be­ ward sign of that determination—an came obvious to all that logic and abhorrence of the Alliance policies— common sense would not prevail with will be shown at Seremban in the cons­ the Alliance Government, at any rate tituency of Rahang. I look at my friend for the moment. from Dato Kramat here—it does not When that became obvious, when the matter to whom it goes, so long as it Alliance Government knew that only does not go to the Alliance party, that a Malaysian Malaysia would be is what we stand for today—and acceptable to Singapore, a partner of same here as Dato Kramat, I say Malaysia, the alternative to the Alli­ that the actions of the Alliance of ance Government was to get rid of suppression and oppression and denial Singapore. Not so much merely Singa­ of fundamental rights is doing one pore itself, Singapore itself was perhaps thing good for this nation—it is bring­ of no concern to the Federation ing together all forces that went to Government, they could deal with it, preserve democracy in this country, and but what was of concern to the Alli­ for that I think we will thank you—the ance Government was this. That the more and more you go on suppressing sincere logic of the arguments put up and oppressing. Mr Speaker, Sir, I by those who propagate "Malaysian said that the Alliance Government was Malaysia" was gaining momentum in suppressing and oppressing by legis­ our Malayan society itself. That in lation, by words of threats, and by every village, and in every town, and in several other somewhat unnoticeable every kampong bordering the villages but at the same time dangerous me­ and towns, people were beginning to thods. Now, the Solidarity Convention think; they were beginning to ask was a combination of the P.A.P., the themselves if in Singapore improve­ P.P.P., S.U.P.P., the Machinda, who ments can go on without this division, joined together on the basis of fighting without this discrimination, why not in for a Malaysian Malaysia. our Malaya? The same thing be done. People were asking themselves, is there Mr Speaker, Sir, it is an established something then that Singapore has, principle of a democracy that political which our elected majority leaders parties should be given freedom— have not thought of or have not thought indeed, not for political parties alone fit to give to the Malayan, as distinct—I but the individual citizen should also use the word Malayan—from the be given complete and absolute freedom Malaysian people at that time? Mr within the law—to propagate beliefs Speaker, Sir, that is what worried the within the democracy. Mr Speaker, Sir, Alliance Government, that is what the Solidarity Convention held its first impelled them to get rid of Singapore, public rally in Penang. It was a tremen­ and I think it is the height of imper­ dous success, attended by thousands tinence for the Hon'ble Minister of upon thousands of persons. The Police Finance to put in words and in writing after consultation with Kuala Lumpur that political tension has been eliminat­ issued a permit for that rally. There ed, because political tension has been was no disturbance of any sort what­ heightened after Singapore was, as we soever. The only condition was that say, booted out of Malaysia. It has been it should be within an enclosed building. heightened for this very reason, that Anyway, it was allowed at the Stadium 3229 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3230 at Penang. Mr Speaker, Sir, having at a private function of the Solidarity seen those reactions at Penang, when Convention. But, Mr Speaker, Sir, the the Solidarity Convention wanted to principle is this: how far do you think meet at Ipoh, first thing we were told you can get by trying to suppress the is, get an enclosed building. We asked Opposition? For how long do you for the stadium, well the stadium was think you can keep people of this not under Municipal control, it comes nation ignorant of the true situation in under State control and the answer Malaysia? How long do you think that given was—I consider it a ridiculous the people are going to keep quiet? answer, "We do not like politics in our stadium". I say, not for long; I say they have started to ask questions; they have Good enough, but we managed to started to act; but we are fortunate get a place all right. In Penang, of that in Malaya our people are a lawful course, we were fortunate, as the people, and they will act only in a Socialist Front controls the stadium. lawful manner, as we tell them that it Mr Speaker, Sir, anyway we got a place is only by lawful means that we can better than the stadium—the hall of overthrow this Government of this the Jubilee Hall—completely free for country, and it is my intention, and the use of the Solidarity Convention. the intention of all those who follow No reply was given to our application. me, be they small in number or large They could find no hitch with the in number, to overthrow by democratic application, because the application process this Government of this land. was made by me. We waited and waited, without any response. Arrange­ Mr Speaker, Sir, also in the speech ments were made, and finally I had to of the Hon'ble Minister of Finance, it send a telegram—in fact two telegrams. has been referred that the statements of The next day we got a reply "Applica­ the Prime Minister of Singapore are tion refused", no explanation, no not conducive to good relationship reason whatsoever given—"I have been between the two nations. To that my directed to refuse your application for answer is this: If you say something a public rally". Mr Speaker, Sir, that nasty, you are going to get something is political victimisation—one hundred nasty back. Remember that you are per cent political victimisation of oppo­ not dealing with a split up Opposition sition parties. as you were dealing in Malaysia before. You are dealing with a free and It had been common practice before independent nation, a proud people of the Solidarity Convention came into Singapore; and what you say about being for political parties to hold public their leader, you will get back in meetings within enclosed places. I hope double-fold. And then we should not that the Minister in charge will be able say, that it is not conducive of good to tell this House, why the application relationship between the two countries, at Ipoh was refused, what are the It is of course the hope and prayer of reasons for the refusals. What is the all of us, and all in Singapore, that policy for which we are passing these our two nations will be on the best of Estimates on which the Government terms and the best of friends. But that works as far as public meetings are must be reciprocal. Mr Speaker, Sir, concerned. Mr Speaker, Sir, but the when Indonesia started her confronta­ Convention does not die by the refusal tion the Hon'ble Prime Minister of a police permit. All that is required announced that local elections will be was a little more expenditure, to be suspended. It received the support of confined to those invited, and therefore, all sections of this House, because it it would not be a public meeting and was reasonably possible that elections, the Convention spent that money and if they were held, could cause a good the Convention did invite specified ground for Indonesian saboteurs and guests to a tea party, now known infiltrators. Subsequently, at the same familiarily in Ipoh as the "Boston Tea time it was announced that public Party", where leaders like Mr Devan rallies would not be allowed, that Nair and others addressed those invited public meetings in enclosed buildings 3231 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3232 could be permitted. Mr Speaker, Sir, to put before the United Nations the Peoples' Progressive Party of appropriate committees and request— Malaya applied for a public meeting whether we would get it or not is on the Padang at Ipoh. It was refused another matter—an audience with the by the Police on security grounds appropriate persons, so that the world which I take it means that they were body, of which we are a member, can convinced Indonesian sympathisers condemn such ghastly actions on the and saboteurs could cause trouble in part of this Government. an open space. We made no whisper, Mr Speaker, Sir, when the question of we made no murmur, we accepted China's entry into the United Nations that decision as in keeping with the came up, Singapore voted in favour, Federal policy. I ask this question, Malaysia voted against. It is, I say, a Mr Speaker, Sir, how did the Police crying shame, and an everlasting Department in Malaysia allow solidarity shame, that Malaysia voted against the rallies a few weeks back in open places entry of Free China into the United throughout this country, in the same Nations. I think it conflicts, to a great spaces, where Opposition parties were degree, with pronouncements made by refused permission on the ground of various Ministers, Honourable Minis­ security risks. Is it not a fact, Mr ters, from time to time. The vote of Speaker, Sir, I ask, that if the Indo­ Malaysia would not have altered the nesians want to create trouble they will situation either way, because for the create trouble for you more than they entry of China into the United Nations will create trouble for other people? a two-thirds majority is required. It is Is it not a fact that the Indonesian not the question of whether that one aggression, or Indonesian interference, vote would have altered the situation is aimed at destroying the Government or not. It is a question of where more than anybody else? Do we not, Malaysia stands. It is a question how then, come to the position, where it is far is Malaysia prepared to go on this so abundantly and blatantly clear that matter, which again is a matter of the Alliance Party hopes through their logic and commonsense. With China machines in Government, through their in the United Nations, you have hope resources in Government, to use to full of world peace. With China out of the advantage their position, where they United Nations, she is not bound by are allowed to propagate their policies any actions, or any observations, of and their beliefs to the people of this the United Nations; and I am sure it country, and at the same time to refuse is the hope of the Malaysian people Opposition parties that same permission that our representatives at the United to propagate their policies and their Nations will take a more realistic beliefs and expose the failings, short­ stand, and a more honourable stand, comings and misdemeanours of those when the matter of China comes up in power in this country? I say, Mr time and again in the United Nations. Speaker, Sir, that matters of this sort Mr Speaker, Sir, on the question of should be brought up not only to the Rhodesia, I think England stands attention of the Malaysian people but condemned for her light-hearted action to the attention of the free world, so in the present crisis. I think Malaysia that the free world will be under no should go further than the statement mask, under no veil, and will be under issued by the Honourable Prime no misconception that in Malaysia Minister, for which we gave great democracy is a flower which is nur­ credit to this Government. However, tured and which is growing and will I think the Government should go continue to grow. To that end, Mr further to the length of other countries Speaker, Sir, the Solidarity Convention and say that our men, our armies, group of Opposition is taking steps, whatever there is of it, are the is in the process of preparing, almost resources of the United Nations, if completing, a memorandum to the they so require them, or any power United Nations; and it is hoped that that requires them, on the Rhodesian the team will go to the United Nations issue. Other nations have done it. I 3233 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3234 cannot see why we should not do it. sitting in this House—in the gallery, I do hope that our Ministers will and on the Ministerial benches—knows clearly state that stand in this House it is morally and legally wrong but, and out of this House when the matter perhaps, sympathetically, on grounds is raised. of sympathy, it might be right. If you Mr Speaker, Sir, we have heard a say that, we agree. But don't try to lot in the last few days about legal pull a fast one! Where is such matters-—payment of $88,323 for litiga­ certificate from the Attorney-General, tion. Mr Speaker, Sir, in our Estimates, Federation of Malaysia? If it exists, I we again have votes for the Judiciary, will not open my mouth again on that Legal Department, and again, the subject. If it does not, you will hear question of retainers and fees will much more of it after certain events come in. Mr Speaker, Sir, it is of vital have taken place. importance that nobody in this House, Mr Speaker, Sir, the Honourable or outside this House, or indeed Prime Minister, at Ipoh, made a sensa­ Ministers themselves should ever be tional statement just after Singapore under the false impression of how left Malaysia, or went out of Malaysia, monies are paid out to Government where he—and here, I think, it is under servants, who are fortunately or unfor­ the question of votes for Education— tunately litigated. There is only one came up and said, "I am going to legal method, properly legal method, make some concessions"—these are by which money is paid out. Before not his actual words, only the sub­ that person litigates he gets the permis­ stance of what he said, "I am going sion of the Treasury. If a private to make concessions on the question counsel, or practitioner, is engaged he of the language issue". must get a certificate, or that private practitioner must be authorised by the Mr Speaker, Sir, immediately leaders Attorney-General, or his representa­ of my Party were glad, because we tive, to act in that particular case. thought the major portion of our battle Then and then only, under the Public had been won. We gave a statement Authorities (Protection) Ordinance, I congratulating the Honourable Prime think, can money be lawfully and Minister for making that statement, legally paid out to the person who congratulating all the Alliance and litigates. In other words, the pre­ saying, "Please, tell us what is this requisite is permission to engage concession so that we can tell our counsel—a certificate from the proper supporters"—no more quarrelling, we authority that you can get or engage were very happy with the concession. counsel for this particular case. Now, Months have passed, no reply. We it is very unfortunate, that I am heard the Honourable Minister telling personally involved in this matter, and us in this House. "You just wait: so I cannot talk much on this. But, when the time comes, I will tell you one question comes out—Where is what the concession is." Mr Speaker, that certificate for the '$88,323 from Sir, I say if there are concessions, if the Attorney-General, Federation of you have them in mind put them up Malaysia? Where is that certificate? now, so that this heated issue, this If that certificate is not there, then the burning issue, this flaming issue can Honourable Prime Minister's state­ be put to rest. It is you who said it, ment that it was paid out and reference Mr Speaker, Sir. It is you and when to public authorities and Government I say "you", I don't mean any servants is all just a mask, because individual, I mean the Government. that does not apply where the certifi­ It is you who said that this issue cate does not exist. The only way you should never be brought up and that can pay out money is by a Cabinet bringing up this issue is likely to cause decision, as in this case. If they say communal trouble in this country. If on "sympathetic ground"—good. But you have a solution, why don't you don't ever try to say that it is legally give it to us? Why don't you save and morally right, because it is legally the country from possible communal and morally wrong, and everybody trouble? You want to keep it up 3235 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3236 your sleeves, or in your pocket? For further, Mr Speaker, Sir, unless some­ what purpose? Mr Speaker, Sir, I say body else stands up and repeat that this: because there is no compromise all Cabinet Ministers became Cabinet which you are prepared to give which Ministers, or politicians, with only one will be acceptable to the people. I say object—to serve the people of this that you, the Government, is trying to country. That I will not stand for, bluff those who are demanding status because I know it is not true. for their language in this country, because otherwise there is no logical Mr Speaker, Sir, the Judiciary in this or excusable reason why you cannot country is a judiciary which has been disclose it to the people at this time. for generations under British rule, Mr Speaker, Sir, I, therefore, in this independent, highly respected, in which Budget Estimates call upon those the people have the fullest confidence. responsible to tell the nation what is Mr Speaker, Sir, that independence of the compromise that you have, so that the judiciary must be maintained at the people can study the compromise all costs, and I use the words "all costs" plan, if indeed there is one. After all both in respect of administration and 1967 is not far away. Let us, therefore, all costs in respect of money as well, have the time to study it, the time to because if our Judiciary is not properly accept it, if we want to accept it; paid—and when I say Judiciary I do otherwise it is mere words without any not mean only Judges or Magistrates, substance. Mr Speaker, Sir, it has very I mean all those connected with the frequently been the habit of Honour­ Courts—if they are not properly able Ministers, who also come under remunerated then the standard of the these Estimates, because there are judiciary will surely be lowered, and allowances for Ministers, to stand up it is not necessary for us to go much in this House and say "We became further. Get the statistics of the number politicians only to serve the people of of resignations from the Legal Depart­ this nations". I think that was said by ment, from the Magistracy, from the the Honourable the Minister of Local Public Prosecutors' side. Ipoh today Government and Housing—if I am has, I think, three Public Prosecutors, wrong, I will be corrected. He was who have left the service and are now convinced that all Ministers came into going to open up private practice. What this House with the sole object of is the reason? You just ask them serving the people. Mr Speaker, Sir, yourselves. They have only one we, from the Opposition, came into reason—they do not get enough salary politics to serve the people, if we could on which to maintain themselves with get into power, if we couldn't get the dignity or propriety that you expect into power to see that those who got a judicial officer, or those connected into power ran the country properly. with the judiciary, to maintain them­ We have sacrificed a great deal, so have selves. What has the Alliance Govern­ several Cabinet Ministers and several ment done for the last so many years Members of this House. Struck my on this question? It is not a new eye, the Honourable Member from problem; it is a problem which has Kuala Kangsar, I know he had sacri­ existed from the word "Go". Nothing ficed a lot in time, in money, but let has been done. There has been no nobody say that every Member of the revision; there has been no move to a Cabinet became a politician to serve solution. How then do you expect only the people of this country. That Magistrates, Presidents, Public Prosecu­ is too sweeping a statement! Well, I tors, to carry out their duties properly know of at least one Cabinet Minister, or efficiently in the future? How do who did not become a politician only you expect in the first place to get to serve the people of this country. He sufficient people to cover your Courts became a politician because it was in this country? You don't have it to necessary to become a politician for such an extent that there is a move now many purposes, but certainly not solely to ask private practitioners if they for the purpose of serving the people will do voluntary service by sitting as of this country. I will take that no Magistrates whenever required to clear 3237 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3238 up the back-log. Is that the way the Mr Speaker, Sir, the Police were Judiciary is going to be run, or are given a lot of bouquets in this House— you not going to make an alternative I think it was yesterday—for the good arrangement, whereby you can attract work they are doing in catching more people into the judiciary? My gangsters, extortioners, kidnappers. All friend sitting there, Honourable Mem­ that is very true, and I will be the last ber from Kuala Trengganu, I think it person to stand up here and say that is, was he not in the judiciary but he the Police are not good, but I will be left it? I am sure he is a person who the first person to stand up here and wants to serve the nation, and the say that there are policemen who are best way he can serve the nation is to not good in the Police Force; and I be a Magistrate. Well, he chose to leave think every Member of this House, it. I am sure his reasons are valid who is elected, will have experience of reasons, because it is ridiculous to that. There are policemen, who go expect a Barrister-at-Law to work for round this country at their whims and the salary that this Government fancies dragging people out of their expected my friend to work; and of houses, locking them up for 24 hours, course there is an over-riding desire I and then telling them to go home. am sure on his part to serve the nation There are such cases and those cases and those are the reasons why .... are happening in Kuala Lumpur town today. They are happening—now let Dato'Abdullah bin Abdul Rahman: nobody say that it happened today, Mr Speaker, I didn't resign because I because when I said "today", I mean it considered the salary was not sufficient. is happening in this period. Mr Spea­ ker, Sir, is the Honourable the Minister Enche' D. R. Seenivasagam: I just not aware that such things are happen­ put it up, Sir. All right, I withdraw ing? I myself know this in my legal that. Mr Speaker, Sir, it is a matter practice. I have myself prosecuted of very great concern to those connected police officers, who have punched and with the Judiciary and those who walloped civilians, who by no stretch appear before the judiciary. of imagination can be gangsters, extor­ tioners or kidnappers. Peaceful Indian Mr Speaker, Sir, in Ipoh the people citizens drinking a pint of toddy at a are waiting anxiously, very, very an­ toddy shop may be a bit drunk but I xiously, for a new hospital. I have the ask, what police officer has the power greatest confidence in our Minister of to go and wallop that man just because Health that he will get us a hospital, he is a bit tipsy? That police officer and that he will get it for us as quickly was duly summoned to court and duly as possible. But I ask the Ministry to dealt with by the courts. Therefore, consider very seriously some immediate Mr Speaker, Sir, let us not say every­ steps for congestion in our hospital thing is a bouquet for the police, at Ipoh. Mr Speaker, Sir, the Estimates because you can give them bouquets are for Health, but it is necessary when they deserve it, but you condemn that the question of the Ipoh over­ them when they deserve condemnation crowding must be considered immedia­ as well. Mr Speaker, Sir, on this tely, because dozens of people walk question of the Police, it is of vital into my place saying, "I can't get importance to us, on the question of admission although my private doctor dealing with applications of various asked me to get admitted and types, that it is one of the requirements the hospital agrees that I should that an application for a public licence get admitted." It is no blame of the should be sent in within a specified Local Authority there. It is no blame number of days notice. When we send of anybody, but it is the question in those requirements, is it not tom­ of sombody paying more attention to foolery for the Police to wait till the an Opposition held down, and I think 11th hour, one day before your that is where it is necessary that the meeting, to inform you whether your Ministry should give us every support permit is approved or not approved? in that area. This happened only last week in 3239 20 NOVEMBER 1965 3240

Seremban at the by-election. At the ment. I would like the Honourable by-elections dates are fixed with the Minister to clarify in the clearest Police, and still they won't tell you possible terms at a later stage, the whether your permit is approved or not following questions: till one day before your election (1) Do the terms of reference of the rally. Is that not victimisation? Is that Commission of Enquiry authorise that not an attempt by this Government to Enquiry to recommend the total aboli­ deprive facilities for the holding of tion of elected Local Councils? rallies, the propagating of views which are necessary hostile to yours? May I (2) Does the Honourable the Minis­ ask the Honourable the Minister, what ter's statement in the newspapers, saying explanations he can give us for this that it is not the intention of the fact—that applications were not replied Government to abolish Local Councils, until one day before the organised which means all these Councils put function. I would like an answer from together; and here I emphasize the the Honourable the Minister. Honourable Minister never said Local Elected Councils—he said "not the Mr Speaker, Sir, Local Government intention of the Government to abolish and Housing is coming in a lot at this Local Councils". I ask the Honourable meeting, and I am thankful to the Minister categorically to state in this Honourable the Minister for making it House that it is not the intention of clear that it is not the intention of the the Government to abolish elected Government to scrap Locally Elected Councils—and I emphasize the words Councils. But I say that his statement "elected Councils." conflicts with the written word, the written word of the terms of reference— Mr Speaker: It is now one o'clock. and here the whole nation is obliged The House is now adjourned till to the Straits Times because they took 10 a.m. on Monday, 22nd November, the Honourable Minister to task several 1965. times on this question of local govern­ House adjourned at 1 p.m.